20 Episode results for "Green Lake"

Silicon Valley Is Making Gasoline Out of Thin Air

Decrypted

20:19 min | 1 year ago

Silicon Valley Is Making Gasoline Out of Thin Air

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service. Visit H P E dot com slash green lake to learn more. Google's research lab started a project if you years ago that thought had the potential to slow the impact of man-made climate change. It was going to make fuel from carbon dioxide harvested from seawater your would still released carbon. And it was burned just like oil and gas because it was made from carbon taken from the atmosphere instead of taking from underground deposits. It wouldn't end up increasing the overall level of greenhouse gases are world economy is you'll buy off appeals Dell. Dell and they have a lot of amazing properties that are hard to replicate. And so we can make renewable fuels to advance substantially out of the world civilization. That's Kathy Hanoun who led the project which Google called foghorn and the foghorn team actually did succeed in making fuel from seawater but Google pulled the plug on the project anyway in early twenty sixteen because it was just too expensive. Luckily, we would be able to hit a price point on a timeline that would justify the very large investment that would be required to bring that technology to market. Scientists have known for decades that it's theoretically possible to suck carbon from air or water and turn it into all kinds of products today. A big problem with carbon removal efforts is that they've been too expensive to justify doing on a large scale on any practical basis three years after foghorn ended other researchers think they're coming even closer to cracking the code one of them is a tiny company named premisses. It's not using the exact same technology that Google used for foghorn. But it does see itself picking up Google. Off the company even counts the person who was the technical lead on foghorn as an adviser, but Brenner this to matter. These new companies are going to have to act quickly. Here's Julio Friedmann an expert on carbon management at Columbia University. If you're getting into this business because you wanna help on climate you're on the clock. We need to deepen the mission's very very quickly. If it takes a seventy years to this place, the incumbent we lose. That that's not good. A growing number of experts now believe that carbon capture technology is a necessary part of any plan to confront climate change. The problem is moving out of the laboratory and up to the kind of scale that could make a difference at a planetary level. And doing it foster enough to avoid the potentially disastrous effects of climate change. It's a daunting prospect, but doesn't have been more support from private investors. And policymakers maybe this is the case where the biggest business opportunity is also a chance to save the world. I'm got Cari, an I'm Josh in. You're listening to decrypted. If you want to know what's hot in a tech startup world. There may not be a better place to look then why combinator demo day twice a year. Several dozen handpick startups give two minute pitches to a roomful of investors media types and industry insiders. It's a big deal. Why is a tech investment firm that's famous for its role launching companies like Airbnb dropbox and read it every founded that takes the stage uses with optimism that they're about to hit it big. He is. Had. In case. In recent years. Why see has also begun testing out its own sweeping social projects in two thousand sixteen. It said it was going to begin experimenting with the concept of paying people at universal basic income that year also said it was going to build a city from the ground up. Why seaside side projects serve as a barometer of the big questions that Silicon Valley is fixated on at any one moment in time and this year Weiss he said it was specifically seeking pitches from stops working to remove carbon from the atmosphere. It was overwhelmed with responses sixty stops applied to the program. It accepted just two of them. And one of those was permits use the company was started by a guy name. Rob mcginnis demo day, rob took the stage and told the audience that he had built a machine that could make gasoline from thin air. And that it could do it at a profit. This was an idea with the potential to be the underpinning of a huge business and a real force in the fight. Against climate change. It was also pretty or Daesh is coming from such a small company after demo day, I visited rob in his co working space about two hours south of San Francisco company, and I sort of building our first purchase. It's really just point. Yeah. But I had health. So it's like people have been working as if they're going to have jobs and now they are. Robs machine is a six foot tall box three feet on each side. It's the size of a real big refrigerator. So I had this open. Have you looked at it since it came back from San Francisco haven't really this is the first unveiling everything's still here on the racks. That's good. Okay. Let's go through and make sure nothing probably. I mean is this your only one at the moment this is? So we were really nervous loading and unloading. It, you know, but it was important to have it there for people to be able to see what we're talking about share. So these are power supplies. So we opens it up, and I can see that there's a cooling unit on the top and a little screen that shows a video feed from what's going on inside the machine that's just bubbles coming out of water, and there's some piping and some wires, and then at the bottom, there's a little spit where the gas can come out, rob asked me, not to take pictures, but we don't want people to see kind of exactly are popping initiation design because you know, eventually people will compete doing things that may be similar, and we don't want to give anybody any, you know, shortcuts the clever thing about Rob's machine is that ends up at exactly the same place that traditional gas companies end up it just start somewhere different. Traditionally the process of making gas. Starts with drilling something out of the ground. You refine it you put it in your car, and you burn it this releases carbon into the atmosphere, and that's the problem. The more fossil fuels burn the more the Cobb and builds up in our atmosphere, and that's contributing to climate change. But if you can use the carbon that's already in the air to make gasoline, your carbon footprint can directly zero you create a circular process that recycles the same carbon over and over. And that's what Rob's trying to do. What's cool about this is it's reverse combustion? Right. So when you burn fuel you make water carbon dioxide and energy sort of work, and those three things can be combined back into. Into gasoline, but the byproducts oxygen. So this thing is a little mechanical forest, just like trees, rubs machine would remove carbon dioxide from the of course, there are some caveats the process requires a significant amount of energy if that energy doesn't come from renewable sources like wind or solar energy, you'll just end up burning carbon to make your carbon neutral fuel and that defeats the whole purpose. It can also be really expensive. I contacted Matt iseman who was the technical lead on foghorn for Google. He's advising, Robin. I was interested in what he had to say about permit. Use. Matt said people regularly approach him with ideas for carbon removal companies seeking his endorsement, or is it vice Prometheus stood out to Matt because of advances rob had made material sciences these would allow him to turn carbon into fuel in liquid stage before then people have been heating it up and doing this in gaseous form. This would mean that can conduct his. At a lower temperature that requires us power, and that makes everything cheaper. Robs machines can also be small enough to be portable. So he could physically move them around based on where the powers cheapest anytime. In the weeks off to demo day. Rob said he was able to raise all the money. He was off to and that he'd use it to hire a few employees and move the project onto the next phase. But he didn't want to say how much he had raised or from whom? Permit Theus is entering a growing carbon capture industry. There's a number of stages that companies are focused on their the companies that want to perfect the process of sucking the carbon out of the air that's known as direct air carbon capture climb works. Global thermostat and carbon engineering have all been working on that project for years, then their companies like opus twelve who want to use the technology to make not only fuel but other industrial chemicals like carbon monoxide. And then there's another set of businesses that want to use repurpose carbon to build alternatives to concrete and other construction materials. Meanwhile, rob wants to go off to another huge market, which is the gasoline market. And he believes that it will be possible for him to start producing gasoline at profitable rates within a year. He's hold us about three dollars a gallon at first, of course for now. He's just asking us to take his word for it. We've been building. This prototype system. And also the economic model that we're basing our sumptious on during that time and have you actually produced any gasoline during that period? No, no. We just finished the machine on Friday. But there's no question it will make fuel because everything in it has already been used to do whether it's done before. So there's no there's no new part in this system. It's really just things that have been done before independently. Business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes they want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP e green lake paper use outcomes on your arms, come to HP, green lake and see the future of IT. Get there at HP dot com slash green lake. What most climate scientists agree on is that the planet needs more carbon capture lost full the UN's into governmental panel on climate change said Kaban removal would be a necessary part of the response to the problem. Estimates of how much Cobb and we need to be removing from the atmosphere. Every year are in the range of ten gig. Tons that's ten billion tons of carbon or about a quarter of the current annual level of global CO two emissions. That means companies like Rob's have to start having some real successes and real soon, but not everyone involved in carbon removal is necessarily building new machines. Absolutely, thanks for having me. I was the same week. I'm at rob. I also met with the size Ville, the founder of pajama. That's the other carbon removal company that got into Wiessee Diego didn't have a machine to show me his company makes software that's meant to improve carbon offset markets these transactions in which someone usually a business that releases a lot of carbon into the atmosphere would pay someone else to remove or prevent the release of a similar amount of carbon. So the software Daego is writing might one day allow people to pay per meatiest, for example for the greenhouse gases. That eliminates remember how rob had described his machine is a kind of mechanical forest, the carbon removal technology that most interest Daego are actual forests. And we need energy big breakthroughs to we need to reduce emissions transition to a low-carbon energy matrix. All those folks need to be explored. We're just starting with what we think is easiest and cheapest plan mature is you Diego told me he spent his whole career and technology up to this point doing things that he looks back and feels are kind of inconsequential so much of the tech industry has been focused on making life convenient around the edges helping us or tacos from our phones or whatever and Diego thinks that this is his chance to do something bigger than that. But he also knows that if a real carbon economy, emerges, there's going to be a lot of money to be made as a middleman, I strongly believe that is an amazing economic opportunities. Well, it might be the economic opportunity of the twenty first century to fix climate change. Of course, a lot has to happen for those economics to pan out. Most businesses won't stop paying for the Cobb. And they're missing until there's a law saying they have to Diego's business really depends on governments taking action in order to work this runs counter to a lot of what you've heard from the tech industry in recent years. It says that government regulation is often an impediment innovation not at spark and betting on politicians is always risky, but that's not even the only big question hanging over this industry. The something a little strange about just letting the biggest climate offended, by the way out of the problem, and with all of these carbon capture technologies on one hundred good because we can keep doing things the way we always have without adding to the emissions that old ready in the atmosphere, but critics would say ultimately we have to develop technologies that don't create emissions at. All. Right. So this is the view that carbon removal technologies are fantasy that allow us to count on some easy way out to emerge. So that we don't have to make the tough decisions that we'd have to make otherwise it's definitely been a part of the discussion around them. I asked Julio Friedmann about this. He's the Columbia professor we heard from at the top of the episode Julio has studied carbon management for nearly two decades. And these arguments about moral hazard. Really don't hold water with him. He says it's unclear what kind of technologies are gonna work. And so we should really be trying everything the more technologies retry the greater the chances. We have a finding something that works because so many of these ideas are doomed to fail often. For reasons we don't quite understand yet. And histories proven repeatedly that finding something that's better than fossil fuel. It's going to be really really hard. So there are many companies that have broken their spears on. There are many companies that were like we're gonna make something that's going to compete with gasoline. And that. Josh one of the things that has kind of intrigued me most is the fact that despite this incredibly urgent need for the technology. The market is still in such any phases. I think when you start looking at any new project, it's a discovery, and you think while just starting down this road, and it's exciting. But one of the first things I found out was that the main direct air carbon capture and companies have been around for years. They're just still very early. And I think that's a reminder of how difficult the technological problems are here. I mean, Google gave up there is a real question about can you do this in a way that makes any economic sense? And even if you do that, then the scale up has to be so rapid, and so big that is a really daunting problem in of itself, and that's a technological and sort of economic problem. I think. One interesting example of kind of where we are with this industry right now is one of the other applications that companies have focused on and that selling bubbles to beverage makers they need to buy carbon and so direct air carbon capture companies have been trying to strike deals with these bottling companies to say, hey, we'll sell your bubbles. We can do it at close to a reasonable price right now for this application, and then they can start learning about how maybe they get to some of these broader applications, and that's one of the things. That's no civil about Rob's companies that he's actually going off to a much bigger more stablishment market, which is the gasoline market. Yep. Absolutely. Rob is a very convincing proponent of this idea. Obviously, you have to be he says look if I can make gasoline that's the same as the gasoline that goes into your car, then there's already pipes to move that gasoline. I don't have to convince people to buy. That gasoline because there's a commodity market. I can just sell into it and will be there as fast as I can grow at the same time. His main competition is going to be the big oil companies and that that's pretty daunting competition. Absolutely. I asked him about that as well. Obviously he said he hopes to work with them at some point when I brought this up with Julio. He said that he thought these startups a logical endpoint for them would be to figure out the technology, and then be acquired by the large gas companies or companies because you're going to need such a massive amount of infrastructure investment to get these things going, and they just have so many resources at their disposal that they might be willing to do it. And rob actually had a number for how much he thought it would cost to build out his serve direct air carbon capture gas for the United States market, and I was eight hundred billion dollars. Okay. So let's imagine that whether by acquisition by an oil company. Or through tech investment? Rob's company permit ius able to succeed and scale up. Do you foresee at that point unintended consequences down the road? There must be. I mean, it always happens. If something gets to global scale, there's going to be negative consequences that you haven't thought of beforehand, I think some of them are kind of obvious already. If you started having fuel made this way at such a large scale that require a massive amount of energy in some ways. It's just converting solar and wind energy into gasoline. If you think about it, and that's going to distort those markets, or at least impact those markets. Another thing that might happen is just the amount of land that some of this require has been something that's been brought up if you need to build wind farms, you know, from horizon to horizon, it's going to be a problem. And then also with anything that gets to the scale the big problems are yet to be determined. And that's it for this week's episode of decrypted. Thanks for listening. If you're involved with carbon capture technologies I'd love to hear from you. You can write to us at decrypted at Bloomberg dot net. Or I'm on Twitter at Joshua roosting. And I'm at at Cari, and please help us spread the word about our show by leaving us a racing or a review wherever you like to listen to podcasts. This episode was produced by God. Cari, and Lindsey Crowder. Well, our story editor was an Bandra may. Thank you also to Akihito, Emily BU. So and Brad stone Francesca. Levy is the head of Bloomberg podcasts. We'll see you next week. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service. Visit H P E dot com slash green lake to learn more.

Rob mcginnis Google HP green lake Julio Friedmann Dell Matt iseman Cari technical lead Wiessee Diego Airbnb Kathy Hanoun
'Everybody loved Summer.' Family speaks out after death of protester on I-5

KUOW Newsroom

01:01 min | 6 months ago

'Everybody loved Summer.' Family speaks out after death of protester on I-5

"The family of the person killed when a man drove his car into a group of protesters on I five, speaking out kyw's Casey Martin reports in a backyard, filled with flowers and plants and Green Lake Summer Taylor's parents said summer was a burst of creativity, wit and charm. Just being the kid everybody loves. And wanted to follow. Summer was the most outgoing creative. SMART. Charismatic everybody loves summer. Dalian Matt Taylor say summer was committed to the black lives, matter movement and was part of the protests every day. Protesters had been marching on the interstate five nightly, but Washington state patrol shut that protest down since Taylor's death. Another person is still in the hospital after Saturday's incident. The driver of the car is being held on a one point two million dollar bail. Casey Martin K. O. W. News Green Lake.

Green Lake Summer Taylor Matt Taylor Casey Martin Casey Martin K. O. Dalian Washington two million dollar
The Strange World of Virtual Bike Races

Decrypted

22:22 min | 1 year ago

The Strange World of Virtual Bike Races

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service. Visit H P E dot com slash green lake to learn more. So Garrett you're recently a witness to an exciting bicycle race. Yes. Show picture this eight cyclists in sleek colorful, spandex some are warming up Dowden with headphones. Shutting out the noise around some are conferring in low whispers with their coaches as the start approaches they settle into their seats and clip into their pedals and then gun goes up and the cyclists pedaling furiously spectators cheering. But the writers aren't going anywhere. Because they're on stationary bikes. This race is being held on swift, which is somewhere between a video game and homework out system. So I'm here in SoHo New York City at whiffed Superleague event, we have one two three four five six seven eight riders live on stage. You can kind of hear them in the background there. And this is you had a recent swift competition. What was it like while we were in a whitewash room in a basement in the Lower East Side of Manhattan with about one hundred other people packed in a few journalists tech investors, and a bunch of cycling enthusiasts up on a big screen is the virtual course, it's kind of funny because the coarser racing on is actually said in New York or a very futuristic Persian of New York bunch of skyscrapers that don't exist right now elevated glass highways, but still doing a couple of loops through central park. So in a world of peleton success in the ability of soul cycle studios. I guess nothing should surprise us. But it is a little odd to think of spectators gathering to watch racers cycle on their. Stationary bikes. Of course, a lot of people used to think the idea of watching anyone play video games. So it's crazy. I think the comparison to video games in east sports is a really apt one east sports tournaments now fill huge stadiums. They get broadcast on ESPN player sign multi-million dollar sponsorship contracts. Now, swift is still very niece. But one day it thinks it's stationary cycling competitions will become so popular that people will pay to watch them. This week Garrett explores the curious world of swift not only that these spend an afternoon in a sweaty room watching racers furiously pedaled the nowhere, but he spends up month trialing technology himself by using video games with exercise swift is pushing the limits of what the sport of cycling could actually be. I'm Brad stone. And I'm Garrett to think and you're listening to decrepit. Oh, it's February twenty second. And I'm going to set up Zoloft on my bike. So I can train inside my apartment and never have to go outside. I'm based in New York, which is pretty cold in the winters. So I decided to use whiff to get rid of bad weather as an excuse not to train. That's how most people use with they sign up for fifteen dollars a month subscription and train at home. First things first we're going to put the bike onto the trainer. I had to go to the bike store and get a very fancy axel to fit my bike fit the trainer without damaging the bike. So again geared. I think you need to walk us through the strange pastimes of more. So you're doing this in the middle of your living room? Exactly. Well, I mean, so I I have to have a bike which I already had normal bike you can use outside. I hooked it up to something called a trainer, essentially, it's his heavy metal roller that attach. To the back wheel. It puts friction on that. We'll kind of simulating the resistance that you'd usually get from the road. Set it up here. Where Snicer tape, but. You know, the last thing you wanna do is bend my carbon fiber frame here. Which again once I had attached a trainer, I added a speed sensor. It's this little sensor about the size of a coin it measures. How fast your wheels spinning so it can transfer that into the game. But there's nothing that's new about these devices that turn your bike into a stationary bike. Right. You're right cycles have been training endorse for years. Raising the difference. Racist. Come to watch a Lesotho get, you know, excitement mounts. The first item is announced this clip is from the nineteen forties covering something called roller racing where the bike is mounted on top of a series of rollers today. The more common design is to fix a rear wheel to a single roller. But it's pretty much the same idea cycling has been a big sport in Europe for some time. And now it's growing in popularity in the US as well, and is more people get into competitive cycling training and doors has become a bigger part of the sport. Okay. So where did swift come from essentially a couple startup guys? John mayfield. Eric men got bored of staring at the wall while training at home on their own. So in two thousand thirteen they got together and started building a video game. So they could watch their avatars racing on a computer or TV screen while they bite. That's what became swift the fast you bike in real life. The fast avatar goes it's got the social component to you can see other people doing laps around you. You can see how hard the other riders are pushing where they're from their stats getting passes and feel too good. Around either way past like feel like I'm in pretty outer space here. Someone who's ADP right zoom cosmic fixing that but writing with fewer people just past the Brazilian. So once you started training, what was it like it can get pretty intense? You don't have any of the distractions of being outside. It's just you and the bike. So you can push yourself pretty hard. The roots are all pretty impressive. They're trying to give you something a look at. So you're cycling up these beautiful mountains through coastal towns, even an underwater tunnel's, so normal cycling. I think has a bit of a reputation of being expensive. But this virtual version doesn't seem cheap either. Just to get started you needed a bike. Plus all the accessories that you talked about it's definitely not a cheap. Hobby. Is it right? I already had the bike. So I didn't have to pay for that. But I had to get a trainer which I got secondhand for about fifty bucks and a speed sensor. Wh. Which sent me back another sixty. Although if I wanted to I could have pushed all of that to more than a thousand dollars if I wanted to get one of the fancier setups. And that's not counting for all the stuff that you know, you wanna buy once you start biking and in the future, they could do a lot of engaged content, such as, you know, buying special jerseys or special bikes to show off in the game. So in other words, just like kids are spending hundreds of dollars to look cool in games like fortnight grown. Adults could be doing the same thing to show off in front of their virtual trading partners yet that in game content is a huge potential revenue stream. So what are some of the other ways? It's whiffed makes money from this. So there's the monthly subscription we talked about. That's fifteen bucks a month. Then there's the money they could make if they put up billboards within the game itself, they're not really doing that yet. But I did talk to CEO and he says it's in the works. Cyclists are generally pretty wealthy group of people so advertisers want to reach them. It doesn't sound like a bad business. Investors have already poured quite a bit of money into the company swift recently raised one hundred twenty million dollars valuing the company at around six hundred million. And the company says more than a million people have tried it out at peak times ten thousand riders are on the swift universe at the same time, and we should say fitness startups are hot right now like peleton, which sells a two thousand dollar stationary bike. And then churches, you another forty dollars a month to stream exercise classes and peleton is aiming to go public this year at a potential valuation of eight billion dollars. But when swift went to raise money. They didn't just pitch themselves as an exercise company or a fitness startup. They wanted to be part of the one billion dollar and growing east sports industry as well. And that's where these big competitions. Come in the the kind that we heard about at the start of the show. Yeah. The league started popping up as soon as people start racing each other on the platform, but now's whiffed is trying to professionalize it bringing those leagues into it system and turn that into another source of revenue more on that after the break. Business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes they want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP green lake paper use outcomes on your terms, come to HP, green lake and see the future of IT. Get there at HP dot com slash green lake. To learn more about this whiffed competitions. I decide to actually attend one myself in New York City, the one we heard at the start. I wanted to match my quirky homework out experience with this big picture potential for swift to be a cultural phenomenon Garrett. I'm really hoping you are one of the eight cyclists up on stage. I definitely was not. I am not that fast. These guys are all people who are either current professionals, or you know, almost made it into the pros and sort of working the way back up into it through swift. We had the real life racers. But they're also about fifty cyclists beaming in virtually from around the world, there was this big screen showing the virtual racers the crowd didn't really seem to know where they should be watching whether the big screen or the guys actually sweating it out in front of them. I'm kind of imagining these big Colosseum 's that usually find in Asia where people gather to watch league of legends or starcraft. So was it a little bit like that? Yeah. It kind of felt like that. It felt maybe sort of the version one point zero of what that could be or what it could look like I talked to one of the racers name is Adam Zimmerman he's been making waves and swift lately. So last year he won this race. Among all the top American amateurs with users which got him a spot in this brand new pro league, tell us more about that. Well, it began this year, and it has real pro teams from Europe competing in it. So, you know, they're serious Adams are really good cyclists. He tried to actually go professional as a road cyclist, but never quite made it so swift is a bit of a second. Chance for him. He was at the race. I went to and he said he thinks is building mass appeal for spectators as well as regular users like me, the best analogy, I can make is on online dating. When when it first started becoming popular in the early thousands. It wasn't socially acceptable for for people to meet online. And now over time people have gotten used to that. And now, it's not a big deal. He also explained why as an athlete you might actually want to compete, and if they give me a pro contract to race east sports, I would do that. Because of the ease of convenience I can travel to an event like this. But for the most part, I can reach out of my living room spent time with my wife, and my pups and how my family around and not have to live out of a suitcase like in real life professionals. So swiftlets Adam be a professional athlete as well. As a guy who works from home, exactly swift is betting that if high profile cyclists are competing like people who are professional athletes who already compete in the big traditional road races. It will pull regular people like me to pay fifteen dollars. A month to subscribe and use it at home. If it's good enough for them. It's gotta be good for me. I would imagine though that the cycling traditionalist may look at this a little bit skeptically has swift actually being able to attract high profile cyclists. I mean, they have pulled in some of those professional teams from Europe, these are necessarily names that, you know, a regular person who only knows three or four cyclists in the world would know, but they are real professional cyclists, and surprisingly some cyclists money even be able to make more money racing on swift than some of the most prestigious real life cycling races. Especially women, for example, swift held a tournament last year at the same time as a tour to Flanders, which is one of the big road cycling races in Europe. The woman who won the swift trace made seven thousand eight hundred dollars while the real world professional just took him fourteen hundred. I have so many questions about this Garrett was first of all where where does the price money? Come from. Some of the league's offer sponsorships swift right now puts up the money for it self. But you obviously see any kind of thing that works in real world. Sports working here ends whiffed as you've described that they're simulating these these incredible racecourses with hills and mountains tunnel. So how how are they simulating the climbs? So the actual trainer that that piece of machinery that you hook your bike into it can communicate with the software and what we'll do is. When it senses. You're about to go up a big hill. It will add resistant so just becomes a lot harder to actually get the same power out of your bike. How were the cyclists comparing the simulated experience to the real thing? Of course, it's it's different than you know, I had some interesting conversations with some of them because in a in a real world race. There is a certain element of technical skill. You know, how fast can you go down a hill without flying off the road? Can you? Dodge around some your competitors without falling over or knocking one of them over. So of course, this is very different. But when you look at the way, the technology is developing some of the trainers are actually starting to, you know, move around, you know, simulate inclines by actually pushing the front of the bike up and some of the conversations I was having just casually when I was at this event, people were sort of speculating about what the future could look like. And maybe at some point, you know, you'll have VR AR some kind of special suit that makes actually feel like you're on a real bike might become indistinguishable from actually being outside. So what are the old school cyclists think about this are they are they excited about what it means for the sport? I mean opinions are pretty split when it comes to this. But there are some people in the sport who think that needs a bit of a reset. I tried it with Chris Armstrong, who's one cycling gold medals for the US at three different Olympics. She's one of the most decorated US cyclists in history. Like the Super Bowl or you think about the gaming that's going on virtually all the different fans and all of abuse. And all that is on that cycling doesn't have it. They don't have it. They have it at the two hundred francs those numbers are going down. And they definitely don't have him in the women's cycling. And so a lot of times the women's inside show them in any one of the most important things is that it doesn't have a lot of mornings. It doesn't have the viewership doesn't have the TV time. But a lot of the larger Baltimore's have in America's and so it's really hard to compete against done. And so I think that the east more pot for can really be mad, but christen said cycling isn't particularly lucrative for most athletes, whereas E sports is already a billion dollar business. Exactly. I also talked to swift CEO Eric men at the race that I was at now he really believes that swift has the potential to become a real spectator sport, just like e sports. I it's it's no secret that it's very difficult to commercialize professional cycling. But you know, putting on a new puffing like this. That is more tuned to the changing audience. I think there's a real opportunity for us to commercialize. It certainly the cost of putting on as van is far cheaper for for more cost effective closing down roses major cities. So I think there are lots of opportunities around selling tickets Rena. Garrett. You have a pretty finely tuned filter for startup spin. Wouldn't you hear Eric men talk? Like this. Do you believe he seemed pretty excited about it? He told me vision sation recycling becoming an Olympic sport sometime in the future. So of course, I'm skeptical that might be a bit of a stretch. But at the very least he says cycling is ready for a serious shakeup. I think of cycling sometimes it's like crooked. It is very difficult to explain to someone what is actually going on. So we need to experiment with formats where someone can just drop in exactly who's winning and who's not winning. So Eric is experimenting with new formats for races. Like a lot of traditional road cycling races in Europe are pretty long they take place over many days and for the uninitiated it can be hard to follow. So busy changing any minds and the traditional cycling world. Well, he definitely is. When it comes to training, at least a few really high profile professional cyclists are singing the praises of like, Matt Haymond. He is a serious legend who just retired from pro cycling in two thousand sixteen. He won the Peri ruby, which is one of the most important races in cycling. It's Prudhoe two hundred and sixty kilometer one day race with some stretches on cobblestone roads. Now Matt won the race just six weeks after breaking his arm and a crash. He tried. Nd on swift because he wasn't supposed to be outside. I used to be a traditionalist, and I used to say that trying to of, but you know, the last two two threes. It's really changed my way. I mean, there was a point they win my arm was actually healed. And I'll tell them my coach, I'm actually getting quality work done on being more effective. Tom affective and inefficient. Now being retired. Is the flip side? You know, I've got a family of God. I can't go out for four or five hours about. So you know, it's it. You know, it really did change change that whole indoor China thing used to be a stopgap when when he couldn't find a couldn't get out because of the raining, and now it is actually not on the paper rice on it. But it is really. Probably front. But for now, it will be going too far to say that the pro cycling world is intimidated for most people swift Silla training platform, not a race. So garrett. How is your personals with training going? It's been going. Okay. It's been pretty fun. I ordered a bunch of white towel. So I can mop up the sweat from my floor and from my bike, which I didn't have to do before. I did run into one problem, though, what what was my downstairs neighbor kept texting the asking what the noise was. She thought there was an earthquake going on. That's that's funny and how about is a spectator. I mean, I I don't know about you. But I'll tune into the tour de France every every now, and then and one of the things that I like about it is the unpredictability the crashes the near misses the incredible feats of endurance to play out over the course of weeks, and these are things that swift doesn't or can't replicate I think it's very similar to sports in this that when you watch an east board going on, and you don't actually know how to play the game or play the game yourself for me. At least. It's extremely boring. But once you've actually played that game. You know, how challenging some of the things are that the players are pulling off you start to kind of get hooked. And so. Cycling is all about wattage how much energy you can produce with your legs. How much power you can put out into the bike? And when you're watching swift race on your computer, you can see what all the athletes are producing and kind of compare it to what you you know, measly human are capable of doing. And it's pretty impressive to see what they can do. So if swift was to prove the viability of the sport, and the and the quiet the skeptics, do you think they'll have this course to themselves? I mean, what is the stop say a peleton from getting into this? That's a great question. I mean, I think you probably see some people who get really fit on their peleton bikes, maybe jumping in and competing on swift. But what the market that they have really dialed into is that that kind of person who is into cycling that that person who has their own bike likes right outside in the summer. Maybe gets kind of nerdy about the tour de France. And a lot of people who gone peleton are just, you know, they don't know much about cycling. They probably don't even have a bike that they wanna ride outside. They just wanna get fit. Do you? Find yourself. Cycling outside less. I mean, the whole reason I wanted to try this out was so that I wouldn't have to cycle outside in the dead of winter. You know, sometimes it's just me being a baby. And I don't want to be cold. And sometimes there's actually inches of snow in the park, right usually ride. But now that spring is coming on finding myself being called to be outside again. So. I big bike ride of the season. I'm outside. I'm in prospect park. Lawson's are everywhere. Or biking or running six grade to be a side still getting past though, some fast guys out here. And that's it for this week's episode of decrypted. Thanks for listening. Have you tried swift or watch east sports you can write to us at decrypted at Bloomberg dot net. Or I'm on Twitter at G E R I TD, and I'm at Brad stone. And please help us spread the word about our show by leaving us a rating or review wherever you like to listen to podcasts. This episode was produced by Cari and Lindsey Crowell. Our story editor was Akihito. Thank you. Also, an Vander me an EMMY abusive Francesca. Levy is head of Bloomberg podcast. We'll see you next week. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service visit h p dot com slash green lake to learn more.

HP Garrett Europe road cycling green lake Manhattan Eric swift peleton US Adam Zimmerman New York City ESPN CEO Dowden Brad stone whiffed Superleague Lesotho First things first
Silicon Valley's Van-Dwellers

Decrypted

25:14 min | 1 year ago

Silicon Valley's Van-Dwellers

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit H P, E dot com slash green lake. To learn more. On a street shaded by big Redwood trees on the east side of Mountain View, California. Why had McGee is inspecting parked RV's? He's a police sergeant here for wealthy town that same to Google one of the world's richest corporations and you could see how this all the debris on the windshield the spider webs. I'll do my marking and I know what time you know, that I've been here general, right? And we give a lot of leeway. We don't come like on the hour of the third day, actually typically give it like a fourth day, and I'll come back and check on it and see if it's abandoned, Sasha McGee, spends a lot of his time knocking on the doors of hundreds of RV's lining. The city streets, logging licence plates, and marking rigs that haven't moved for several days here we and this one's unmarked. Yeah. This car is marked, and then we'll go from there. We'll try to contact the person and worn them. And now we give them a ticket with in writing. It's total. They get two of those typically before we, we tell. Although we do have the, you know, authority to tow. It the first time. That's the last thing we want to do these vehicles onto band, that people's homes Mountain View is the center of silicone valley's tech, boom. And it's minting millionaires almost by the hour. But the biproduct of all this new wealth is that thousands of people are being forced to live in obvious across San Francisco, and the broader bay area because rent in house prices have risen so high. It used to be a cool life hack few conic classic extending the Silicon Valley myth of sleeping on the desk and working out of a carriage. Now it's become an act of desperation and a symbol of a housing crisis that can no longer be ignored. I'm Pierre Cari Ann, I'm Alice DuBois. You're listening to decrypted. A small handful of Google's have lived in RV's on and off since the company's early days. I expect to one former Google in a Matt Weaver, he did in two thousand five for about a year. RV to me, and I did depart because of air, I had a new kind of tech job in the area that I was doing perfectly fine that and lived in and are being in pole part, simply say that I done such a thing he was a fun thing back then was a newly public company with about five thousand employees and Facebook wasn't much more than a doom project since then things have changed dramatically Google now has roughly one hundred thousand fulltime staff, and tens of thousands of temporary and contract workers and Facebook, which is headquartered just a few miles to the north has about thirty five thousand employees, then as Yuba lift Airbnb Pailin tier papal Lincoln, the list goes on nowhere near enough housing has been built to keep up. So home prices and rents have soared and the result is thousands of people living in office in towns, all over Silicon Valley. If I look at this road if you just count with the naked eye, it's one too. Three four five, six seven kind of eight right there. But then if if you include these ones, twenty yeah, I counted about fifty in and around ghouls campus on the eastern edge of Mountain View. The city is logged, almost three hundred Palo Alto Berkeley, and other bay area towns of similar numbers, the RV's are usually white or beige, and they either parked along leafy residential streets lined with the tach suburban houses or the tucked away near office. Parks. Hi, I'm sorry to believe. In the door of acute, Ron style house, and one longtime resident was at home. So we chatted for about half an hour on his front porch across the street. They're about ten RV's. Nice guy works over Google comes over shakes my hand says, hi offers me a beer. He's just going to be living out of it girlfriend would come by four o'clock and go up on top, and do sunbathing. We always joked. It is what it is. And, and that was that of all of the RV's maybe that's twenty percent of what it is the other eighty percent. However, is a pure and everyone has the same tagline. It's too expensive here for them to get. You know, a house or an apartment or whatever it is. He sounds like he's accepted the situation but he's had mixed feelings about the obvious for some time. Google keeps taking care of my home value. It keeps going up. Thank you, Google. But, you know with that, you, you don't want the crime. I got a kid. This year tensions between homeowners and the people living in the obvious has boiled over in March, the nearby community of Berkeley voted to ban AVI parking on public streets and a few weeks later, Mountain View followed with a ban of its own in the lead up to that votes. In Berkeley, a city council meeting devolved into a screaming match, which you like us to discuss the RV item or not. Would you like us this custody RV item or not? The so much, thanks to this issue. Right now, one day when I was looking at a local news website. I spotted a comment from a Mountain View resident which said, stop feeding the Baz the AVI dwellers Bez that should be removed. So I set out to talk to RV dwellers and hear their stories. What I found, of course, is that the not animals despite well that Mountain View isn't vote. They often well educated hardworking people who would be living in a comfortable apartment small house in almost any other part of the US Mountainview officials have checked the data and contrary to the perception of some homeowners does no evidence that AVI dwellers are committing crimes as a higher rate than other residents. Still Google is who live in our visa keeping a low profile these days, I put lettuce on windshields of about twenty RV's around the company's headquarters campus asking them to get in touch. The sometimes telltale sign they worked for the internet, giant, you can often see one of those multicolored bugle bikes park, next to an RV, so the inhabitant can jump on and cycle to the office kind of. Lettered there as well. The thing to do is you pop it under their. Windscreen. Wiper. Bother than obviously knock on the door. And disturbed is. Only seven forty five in the morning right now. So. People probably haven't got up here. A few days later on Email from an anonymous address it said our group tries to stay, discreet, avoiding media enquiries, but we understand the importance of having are now told I recommend you each out to van dwellers at Google dot com. When I emailed that official company address, I got no reply. There is a Google who calls himself, Brandon s who's been blogging about his experiences, but he tends to focus more on financial planning advice such as how to buy a house elsewhere, while you save money living in a vehicle in Silicon Valley, and he didn't want to talk to us for this podcast. But I was able to talk to other people currently living in our vs on a sunny spring afternoon. I met with a guy called Sam about one hundred yards from Google's headquarters. Hello. How're you sums forty one and he spent most of his career in one thousand nine hundred but he currently drives to lift his wife Linda works at a big drug development company in Silicon Valley. Some looks like any other techniques. He had a shop head cut were twenty Jack inexpensive jeans and he wrote up to me on an electric scooter with a high end action camera attached to his chest. Futa. Oh, yeah. So the segue segue runs. That's pretty cool. I think so. So you, you, you live around around here will in the RV, so, yeah. Yeah. On this road or some days were right now, just on the other side over between the who building their. I'm sorry, the a YouTube building, and the Google maps. Oh, yeah. You don't forget them. Seven Linda used to own a house in Sacramento, but they sold and moved went into that new job. Once they arrived. They found out they couldn't afford went this is despite a combined income of Buffy one hundred thousand dollars a year in most places. He lived like a king on that, but here, it's very hard to make ends meet, if you want to also build rainy day savings, as we're all told was supposed to do, and we just did the math when we were renting a room and we can kind of stay afloat, but there's no way to save any money for retirement or the future at all. We'd just be floating. And then at some point rent prices would go beyond our ability to pay. Turns out living without a permanent address is complicated. We agreed to change salmon Linda's names because they're afraid that if Linda's employer finds out she lives in an AVI. She'll be fired. It's a very gray area living out of out of an RV. There's big litigation on whether or not it's even legal to live out of an Harvey and have a Bank account and things like this. So once you come home list, as very difficult to become an homeless. That's because if you don't have a traditional address, it's impossible to get landlord references to rent a home. And it's tricky to arrange a mortgage. If you want to buy some Linda had talked to a lawyer about, how to keep that Bank accounts and retirement savings accounts, financial regulations, mean, banks usually wanting to residential address for account holders, and PO box is a frowned upon technically, they can seize our accounts and their door. I didn't I didn't think of that on this e trade accounts, all of that would could technically go by, if we did not if we were not very careful about how we did this some didn't want to go into more detail because he's concerned about losing access to their accounts now that they've been in this situation for at least a year. He's. Torn about whether they should have made the move to Silicon Valley. It's all it's a mixed blessing living. I mean who wants to live half homeless? I mean it's as much as it can look glamorous online. It, it comes with its own problems. Some struggles in particular with the neighborhood tensions. It's not easy knowing homeowners don't want you around. I would imagine if I paid two million dollars for a house. I'm not in a hurry to see somebody living out a RV out on the street either, you know, so I people pay very high property taxes here in the see people kind of skirting that I'm sure it's that's not making people excited about about their neighbors, plus Sam doesn't work at Google, so he can't enjoy company perks like showers that make it a lot easier for employees to live in an AVI. Google employees the everything subsidized for them food, laundry, anything they could possibly want, which is why they can downsize totally do a van it's one stop shop for them for some people. It's, it's a steppingstone for some people. It's it's a trap. I wanted to get a better sense for what life is like for people living in RV's, without Google providing toilets showers food, laundry. So I spent an afternoon with another AVI resident pull Kastner. So you wanna give me a toll? Sure. This is the living room, whole has spent his career in tech, including a recent stint at a semiconductor equipment supply, as a quality engineer the company cuts off, including bull, and now he's looking for a new job and surviving in an AVI. Got a couch that folds down into a bed. Couple chairs. I'm a musician. So I have a nice speaker system here with with days and can listen, listen to songs. Yeah. Then kinda kitchen here kitchen. I think of it like a European kitchen. It's got everything that anybody here has, but just like tiny bit smaller. Insides, like got a stove and sink. One hundred gallon tank can the back and then to fifty gallon tanks for, for weights, by the way that lapping sound in the background was pulls dog bandit who was very friendly. And I was impressed, by the way, pool made use of his small space, but it did smell musty I have to say and dealing with sewage in difficult to as a service center about eight miles northwest pool can go to empty his tanks and refill with fresh water. The other option is to use a hose to empty the waste directly into the sewage system to suit clean outs on the street poll says that goes to the same place everyone else's waists goes. But ultimately Paul's main challenge is the same as sans. Your neighbors don't like you. Will they even scared of you? And for the people living in obvious it's about to get worse. This leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes, they want when they want them, and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP green lake paper use outcomes on your terms, come to HP green lake and see the future of IT get there at HP dot com slash green lake. In March Buckley band obvious from parking overnight Pacifica, East Palo Alto and other bay area towns have enacted limits as well at the end of March Mountain View voted to do the same. It's unclear when this ban will kick in, but it's coming to Mountain View city meeting in March civill residents in AVI dwellers blame big tech companies indirectly raising prices and not doing enough to fix the issue. The city council was criticised to dozens of people came with signs that read I stand with Mountain View vehicle residents and a group representing the people living in these came to speak at the event, preventing parking, and throwing more people out of our community is unconscionable. I do not want to live in a town where the only people who can afford to be here are very, very rich techies, or very old retirees like myself. Thank you again. This is a polarizing issue for Mountain View. Some people are standing up for the rights of AVI residents, but other homeowners a happy about the parking Benz, these elephant, people who were lucky enough to vote, a ho many years ago. They didn't want new apartment buildings marring, this Abon paradise and they get angry at the thought of affordable housing, bringing people to their neighborhoods for at least a decade. This attitude has won out rising salaries and a growing population combined with unlimited supply of new hones his spot to surge in prices. The median rent in Mountain View has almost doubled since late two thousand ten to four thousand dollars a month. That's nearly triple the national average. The median Mountain View home value is one point eight million dollars up from seven hundred and fifty thousand ten years ago landlords richer, homeowners feel richer and smarter for buying early. The old homeless person on the street could easily be ignored or explained away as a products of poor life choices. The all the explosion is chain. All of this, when cities crackdown, AVI dwellers usually move onto the next town and hope for the best. But now that many towns in the missing parking, it's unclear what all these people will go. I spoke to Jennifer loving the CEO of a destination home, which is trying to reduce homelessness in Santa Clara county, where Mountain View is located. She blames the lack of affordable housing for low-income workers. She said this type of real estate isn't as profitable for developers who'd rather build mcmansions for wealthy tech workers. Rising rents. We have gentrification we have people being displaced. And, and all of that together is creating an Hannibal situation for thousands and thousands of families and individuals that are trying to live and work here in this community heal suspect to Alison Hicks, one of only two Mountain View council members to vote against the AVI poking Ben, she says the tech boom happened so quickly. The residents is struggling to just to the fact that they now live in a densely populated area with different needs hundred years ago, this area was farmland. It was the valley of heart's, delight after postwar became a suburb, and now we're becoming a more urban place urban places have problems that suburban and rural places don't. So this is the reason sergeant Mickey spent so much time driving around Mountain View keeping track of dwellers and offering them support wanting them if the coming parking ban and pushing people to sign up for what little afford. Audible housing is available right now. And there are other worrying signs to when I wrote along with sergeant McGee, one recent afternoon, an AVI resident van away from us. We jumped in the police car and quickly caught up with him. Sergeant McGee found what he suspected was methamphetamine on this person. So what do you do? Now. I could buck. Buck, I'm but he's gonna come right out. And so he lives in that RV. Right. Where that can was very painted citation through the court. Court. And then there's that sewage issue. Sajjan Mckee stop to inspect. One of the that had Brown liquid leaking from an outlet pipe near the rear wheel. We've been getting complaints about this one leaking sewage. And I just having got it with leaking there's dried something underneath it, but you can see the duct tape and say the cap that's that's the reservoir for the sewage. So you can see where it's darker, right. Underneath it. Yeah. Yeah. You can see where it's, it's been dripping the sergeant tested the slowly growing pool to prove it was human waste. It was and he got serious with the people living in the vehicle. A self driving car will policy lectured the two residents. They need to take care of it like a sap. So we're supposed to there's a new ordinance for telling Todd. I'm not gonna to- today. But tomorrow, if I come out here, and it's like this, it's getting towed. All right. So you've been notified. So Ali after will your reporting on this. What was your sense about how people are feeling about the issue, do they think tech companies should be doing more must be polite heard from things in Google? Another big technician, really step up more than they've done so far. And in the short term, they should at least make some of the big parking available. So all the owners can pretty safely overnight. What about this concept you this historical concept of the company town, which auto companies mining companies have done in the past where they not only build housing directly for that work has been in some cases, whole town. I've spoken to someone who's familiar with Google thinking on this, and they said the incident giant is as interested in becoming a residential home builder or like a major landlord for staff, and it's actually unfortunately unlikely to make Cox available for v poking either do the fishery declined to comment for this story. But they did point me to. Interview one of that public policy manages did. She's Rebecca frozen. She spoke to PBS back in two thousand sixteen. Obviously our footprint creates pressure creates pressure on housing and transportation. But that pressure isn't just tack. It's not just doodle. It is all the industries that are creating the economy of the bay area. We all have to work together to figure out what we are going to look like and how we're going to live alley. I mean, she's right that this isn't so legals problem to deal with. But it is true that most of the wealth created in the last few years has come from the tech industry. So I wonder is there a push for Google and other tech companies to pay more in local taxes, general feeling including from that guy in Mountain View that we spoke to the, the resident the industry isn't paying enough tax on the huge profits that they make, but Google is giving money to a lot of organizations to tackle these issues is also go to bury. Big plan to invest millions of millions of dollars in an area called north bay show, which is nearby its headquarters. And this will add thousands of homes, including about twenty percent of homes in that plan that will be affordable housing. It's definitely encouraging that Google could help to create thousands of new homes through that plan. But I can't help thinking, Google is a company that has more than one hundred billion dollars in cash on its balance sheet. So still even off to those millions of donated it's a bit like you, or I giving ten dollars to a homeless person we pass on the street housing of Jennifer loving that we spoke to she thinks the north bay shore plan should include a lot more for will housing. She said twenty percent is nowhere near enough to solve this problem. And then, of course, you also have to think about the fact that it's not just about money in a Google could in theory through a million billions and billions of dollars millions of dollars. But you need the political will as well, so people who live in these areas that they actually have to want to help their neighbors. And when push comes to shove, sometimes that doesn't happen. So if it does take time maybe years to really address this. Issue. Do you think there's a risk that the whole situation could escalate, if it's allowed to fester, your thing, a couple of risks and the, the first one was pretty well by Alison Hicks? Who was that Mountain View council member? We spoke to her point is that if regular people con afford to live here, the fabric of the society breaks down. So if you think of teachers chefs trust collectors, baristas, subsidy, people, these are people who make everyone's community function properly. And if these people are pushed further and further way is going to become a strange city in, especially very hard for those people found that functions. If we only have tech workers living in it just even if you have no compassion for papal themselves, you know, it won't be a functioning city of as I know it, it wouldn't be a city that I would wanna live in and the second issue could be even more of a risk, and that's the tech companies could go elsewhere. So in February, the do go see summed up. Pichai. He announced a plan to spend fifteen billion dollars and that would go on new offices and data centers. And a lot of this was outside Silicon Valley becoming a trend. We know Amazon has decided to do the same thing as well. Expanding outside of Seattle off to housing and infrastructure has come under a lot of strain in that city. Yeah. When pushed on this type of thing tech executives who based around here, you know, they'll blame it. They wouldn't blame it directly on on this homeless crisis. The housing Poland, but they'll basically say, you know, the, the amounts, we have to pay a small, the small engineers is just way high near the reason the reason is because it costs so much live here and just going back to sergeant Mckee. Did you ask him alley how he feels about all of this year? We got into a bit when my ride along with him ended. I all basically whether the AVI wave will ultimately be solved. And he looked pretty tired as he thought about the answer. Yeah. With the way things are. Going. I don't see how it's all going to disappear where where we gonna put everyone you know, there's not enough housing at the moment. After twelve hour day he had a long drive ahead to get home because he can't afford to live in mountain. And that's it for this week's episode of decrypted. Thanks for listening. If you live in a city, where house prices being affected by the tech boom, I would love to hear from you. You can write to us at decrypted at Bloomberg dot net. I'm on Twitter to embalm and I'm at got Cari, and please help us spread the word about our show by leaving us a racing or review wherever you like to listen to podcasts. This episode was produced by Cari, and Lindsey crusher will. I'll story, Edison was Emily. Thank you. Also to Aki ITO, and BanDai. And Brad stone Francesca Levy is head of Bloomberg podcast. We'll see you next week. decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit H P, E dot com slash green leak to learn more.

Google Mountain View RV Silicon Valley HP green lake HP Linda Pierre Cari Ann sergeant Mckee San Francisco Sasha McGee AVI California Sam Jennifer Alison Hicks US
Embracing God's Desire for Your Marriage (Part 1 of 2)

Focus On the Family Daily Broadcast

28:34 min | 7 months ago

Embracing God's Desire for Your Marriage (Part 1 of 2)

"Amandas marriage was a train wreck trying to raise four young kids, facing bankruptcy, constant arguments, and then her husband had an affair profiles that God. What do you want me to do like? I've done everything and there's like. I. Don't know what else I can do. I can't stand to look at him, I can't. I can't say to be around him. What do you want me to do? Thankfully, God intervened in a man. Does Life Begin to change? As she listened to our podcast, so really focus on the family gave me hope. and it gave me. A change in perspective. You know that no, not every marriage is GONNA end. There is hope I'm Jim Daly working together. We can rescue more marriages like Amandus. Especially during this corona virus pandemic and when you donate today, your gift will be doubled. Learn more at focus on the family dot com slash, strengthen families or call eight hundred a family. Someone said that one of the best wedding gift God gave. You was a full length mirror called your spouse and had there been a cart attached would have said. Here's to helping you discover what you're really like. Some of US may want to send that gift back, but there is a nugget of wisdom in that quote and we're GonNa take a look in the mirror so to speak Today's focus on the family with Jim Daly John I. Think one of the reasons marriages are failing so quickly. Today is that we often don't like what we see in the mirror. But then we've blame the mayor, don't we? And that's really blaming. God or blaming our spouse for what the reflection there is our inadequacies. Maybe you've mistakenly embraced marriage for your personal happiness, and I'm telling you the longer I live, the more I see God in his purposes and marriage and I'm very excited to talk to our special guest today about the nature of marriage, and our guest is Gary Thomas. Who's been here before? He is a bestselling author and one of his books is called sacred marriage. That's what we're going to dive into. Into today Gary and his wife. Lisa have three grown children and they live in Houston. Texas Hey, gary, welcome back to focus on the family. Thank you, Jim, let me let me start there with that broader question, which is as I, said that longer I live the more that statement by Paul Rings true that you could see God in the nature God created, and it's very simple I mean when you look at marriage. Maybe it's not about us. Maybe it's about becoming more like him. And how does he do that in marriage? I believe in every aspect of marriage. There's the invitation to become more like Christ. The problem is that we have to accept that. As one of the purposes of marriage I got married for entirely opposite reasons want somebody to love me I wanted somebody who appreciate me I. wanted somebody to occasionally serve me. I'm embarrassed to say that. and. It wasn't until I. Really Begin to understand that marriage is about becoming. That I really began to get a feel for why God created marriage and what it could do. We don't have this sense that we're becoming someone. We have this sense that we want someone to be there for us. We don't even have the sense that need to become something we're not. In fact. We kinda define love is you're supposed to accept me as I am and appreciate me as I am in. Respect me. Me As I. AM and so we lose that whole emphasis that marriage can call us to become someone else more importantly cost to become more like Jesus Christ well, and that's the point Can you give me a practical example because I understand Kinda sorta what you're talking about to become something else than you are today, so in my marriage Howard that apply for me. What would I be becoming in a healthy sense? Let me give you an example right after nine eleven. They shut down the airports. We all know for several days and I started traveling again, but when they reopened the airports, it was an entirely different experience when you were flying. It could be in the early days before Tsa were up and running. It was you know hour and a half sometimes two hours insecurity practically strip searched trying to get through, and it's one thing if you do that occasionally, but when you're traveling just about every weekend, and they're going through it, and they weren't completely trained yet and I don't mean to be uncharitable, but it felt like you were dealing with the keystone cops, sometimes just ridiculous questions and whatnot and I really started to get cynical. I started to get negative. And done this for several months, and then my wife finally went on a trip with mirror. Kids were much younger at the time, and so she didn't travel with me as much. And after we went through it, she just kind of looked at me and said what has happened. As what do you mean? She goes well? Your Senate Senecal you're negative. You're kinda roots because it's not the person I've ever known you to be. And I realized that an ugly situation was turning into an ugly person. I was letting that situation stamped me into who I was, and here I was hopefully going to church is wanting to bring the the light of Christ and acting like a son of Satan on my way to get there and I realized. You know that's not who I want to be. That's not what God would want of me and. And so, that was an example where my wife could be that God mirror to me, saying you know what this is who I know you to be. This is how you're acting here. Whoa, what's going on? I think there would have been a time in my marriage. I would have resented. I might have even said defensively well. If you'd had to go through the last few months like I have and whatnot. But instead just accepting it as a call Gary. There's some issues in your life. That needs to be addressed. Welcoming at this is your wife, your sister in Christ saying I think you can do better in this area now. If you resent the thought that you could do better in an area, you'll resist that, but if you believe that I think scripture calls us to become more and more like Christ we can welcome those moments I'm back there with you, considering acting like the son of Satan that that, but it's true it's you lose your your Christ like character in some situations, and that's probably exactly. The spot were God wants to deal. Deal with you and try to get a handle on that, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, and I think one of the funnier ones in in sacred marriage that people have talked about is how I got married taken just as very easygoing guy plight, in fact in junior high I was voted. Most polite I'm thirty four kids I'm not a type. A personality Jim. You have all the skills that I I wouldn't want to run an organization I. Don't want to be in charge. I don't want to be responsible for budgets or personnel higher fire evaluate all of that I just feel like I'm out of my wheelhouse and I. Really Admire those administrators that. That can do that and so I thought. Laid back Kinda. I'm not easily irritable. And so I was even voted out by my peers, and they got it, but then when you get married. And, you realize the silly things that really bug you give us an example for least night was ice cube trays family i. In the days before believe it or not. Automatic ice makers in your freezer family? I grew up in. If you got out an ice cube, you're supposed to refill the tray and put it back in the freezer. So the next person we have a nice full tray of Ice Cubes and I'm convinced that's the biblical way. Hand Yourself. In the kitchen I'm all with you. My wife unfortunately grew up in a family where they'd run those things down to an ice chip all right. If if there's something you could scrape off with a knife that could conceivably be called ice. You weren't morally obligated to refill the tray, so ask you. The last man fills the trey and I had a really bad habit back then my wife has since cured me of it, but I had to have my daily Pepsi and I. GotTa Tell You if you've got one tiny little ice cubed Pepsi wins every time and I hated drinking Pepsi. And so I had to deal with this frustration. How do I explain to my new bride? How much of my happiness depends on having this nice full tray of Ice Cubes and I? Just couldn't get my point across and so. One night shoes speaking romantically to me. I thought. Here's my chance, she say. I know I was a young. Jim. She, said Gary I'm GonNa love you forever and I said honey I don't need you. Let me forever I need you to love me for seven seconds. She looked at. What are you talking about? Said time how long it takes to fill the ice cube tray. Put them in the freezer. And Know we both Kinda laughed. She's geared word that again series. At this moment you realize what's going on, and it really helped me to understand that there are these issues in my life that you know I'm. I've never dealt with with some issues that some. I've never been drunk I. Don't use the language I don't really blow off temper and embarrassingly so that way, but you know what I have my routines. And you step on my routines at your peril and had to realize like Jesus. He said he came to not to be served, but to serve, and and it's not about everybody's saying. What makes you comfortable? What doesn't put you out and so? It really shines spotlight on an area that I was blind to I'm more irritable than I thought in certain areas they might not see my morally significant areas, but those are the root issues that really can make people around us miserable and that don't shine the light of Christ, the Ice Cube tray. Man I, like it. You got a new nickname. Hey, gary, in your book. sacred marriage, which is a classic, and you've updated it and as John. You said it's a year wheelhouse books. Books this is I. Commend this book a Lot. Yeah, you make a comment. In fact, it's the subtitle of the book where you ask what I think is the core question it is what if God designed marriage to make us holy more than to make us happy and Gary in my own relationship with gene in the culture in the Christian community I'm not sure that we have a good handle on this one. It's not about holiness. It is about my happiness and I. don't care. Well the book was. First published in the year two thousand, so it was written in the nineties, and what discovered at that time that most Christian books were focused on. How can you be happier in your marriage? How can you be more fulfilled in your marriage? How can you make your marriage more pleasant? And while I understand those concerns, I understand those desires because I share all of them. I wanted to present this picture where God presents that holiness is the doorway to happiness by pursuing holiness that we arrive at happiness and I'm finding with younger couples today Jim. One of the challenges is that they just are shocked at how much work is involved in being a spouse in particularly in being a parent well, let me say you're his one word are they overwhelmed and incapable of giving of themselves as that the core problem absolutely i. feel like what happens if we don't prepare people with this mindset, it's like taking soldiers straight from Wall Street or main street and put him in the middle of a war zone without training them. What's going on? I didn't expect it and we get married thinking because I wanna be fulfilled because I want to be happy, and then all the sudden we have a spouse has demands on us, and we have to learn to give way to them, and then we have kids that seem like nothing, but demands early on in the years, and we're just tired and all the sudden it's like. How did I get lured into this? Not Realizing that it's one of the most glorious things it helps us become men. It helps US become women. It helps US become. Who I think we want to be you know when we we look at it today we do shy away from pain in our culture. Almost in every way we over parent our kids to keep them safe. We don't want them. Even scratch their knee and we laugh about that a lot. We talk about a lot here, John but It's true to in this marriage category. We focus on ourselves and what our needs are as we're doing premarital counseling, even going into the relationship, it's not so much about the art of giving and learning to be patient kind of the fruit of the spirit. If we could be bought lovejoy, he's goodness, kindness, meekness, patients those aren't the fruits that we develop. Why. What are we miss? Why are we so self-focused today in the culture and in particular in the Christian culture? I've grown up on the Christian classics Christian books that were written hundreds or sometimes thousands of years ago and that's what informed myrlie books I believe it's what informed sacred marriage, just trying to explore how Christians have understood the faith throughout the centuries. And the one thing that I think is crystal clear that the ancients valued holiness what we value our salvation. In Gary appreciate that you've. Earlier. You alluded to this, but I think it's important for us to hear. The Holiness is not exclusive from happiness, because if I'm in a marriage right now hearing you. I'm thinking Oh great I'm going to be I'm going to choose to be unhappy, but holy. That's not what you're saying. No, I really believed that holiness is the doorway to happiness. Holiness is what protects our happiness when you have two people that are fighting over selfish things James Talks about this, nobody can win. But when you really trying to pursue who you are in Christ, it can really help you. I'll believe understand how to resolve some of the unresolvable conflicts of marriage in so that includes ice cubes. Fighting over ice cubes. There's a holy way to do that. Well! It's not just wanting my wife to start feeling the ice cube trays for me. It's me seen how I'm so driven by certain silly routines, and like I want you to live for my comfort well. If I caught on my selfishness, it's like any other lust. It can't be satisfied if somebody's a materialist, they'll never have enough money is somebody is selfish. They'll never have enough stuff. If somebody just lust for appreciation, they'll never be appreciated enough. Sin Can't be satisfied. It needs to be crucified and my marriage changed when I realize it. Marriage was a place where my sin could be crucified. It really comes down to this. We can choose to let send tear apart our marriages. Or we can use our marriages to tear apart. Arson, well and Gary I think a lot of guys hearing this. You just kind of put up spirit through their heart. Because we're we do live in that place where we can buy for Kate those two worlds, we have a home world, and we have a work world and It's hard sometimes for us to come home and immediately engage our spouse, and and have a meaningful conversation about spilt milk because we're just not dialed in that way. Did you have a way to remind yourself that? This is about eternity more so than the code I'm writing. How did you dial into Lisa to say? Wow I'm hearing you. When I was younger husband and I would face those issues I always thought the problem was Lisa, and so that's our natural reaction. Jim My natural reaction when I have those episodes of my wife. When I'm disappointed in my marriage, I think man. What's the with them and the sacred marriage approach was learning to ask I okay. What's the matter with me that I care? Care so little about my kids that I'm not willing to engage with my wife in this. Why do I blame her? Rather than myself but Gary? Sometimes, you're not even self aware of that. I'd I would assume this person that you're describing the code writer over the father in him may not have even seen the deficiency. He might have thought he was an excellent father. That his kids will learn valuable work skills from him I. Mean you see the point when I'm trying to say? Is We begin to justify whether we're a mom or a dad? We can justify our behavior in so many ways, and in itself that's the non-recognition of that Senate in your life. Right absolutely, and that's the whole point of the subtitle. What if God designed marriage to make us holy more than to make us happy when we keep that in mind then? then. We're led to ask that question otherwise, if I'm not happy, why am I not happy? It must be my spouse's fault. It's an entirely different question to say I'm not wholly why I not wholly well I'm not gonNA. He might try to blame your spouse. Spend a lot of it is related I'm responding inappropriate way. The older I get, the more I see this and new Colossians three twelve and thirteen in some other passages. What astonishes me about the New Testament? Is that maturity in the Christian faith is largely defined by how we treat the immaturity of others that my holiness is demonstrated how what by how well I put up with the holiness or the lack of onus that I see in others. It's not just what I. do or don't do what I avoid or don't avoid. It's how patient I am. How I am how understanding I am when others don't display holiness, and you see that in the Christian classics as well in sacred marriage talk about the. The Holy Double Standard that the holier we according to the Christian classics, the harder we are on ourselves, and the more generally are on others. The problem is in most marriages. We excuse ourselves and we're harder on her spouse. Now. That is so good, and it's so true I don't know why we do that. As human beings, you actually made a statement. That I want to repeat right here because I think it fits so well, you said that behind every case of marital dissatisfaction lies unrepentant sin. I mean that's a big charge in a real mind bender to soak. Is that true if I think about gene and myself? Those areas where I'm dissatisfied, is their unrepentant. Send in my heart, and the answer is yes. I would say that's true. Do you have examples of that for you and Lisa? So here's a classic case. In point again it goes back to my routines or whatnot, but when we lived back in Seattle Washington actually live north of that and Seattle has place called Green Lake, it's a very popular place for people to run, and I, loved running around green, just different places so often when I flew into Seattle, and then drove up to Bellingham I would stop at Green. Lake can go from my run, but. But, I'm still about seventy five miles away so I'd have to sit and wet sweaty, running close to tell I got home, and I could shower well, it so happens. My son became employed in Seattle with his new wife had an apartment, a block and a half away from green. Lake and I can run around Green Lake and get to take a shower before I go home. I know so stupid. There's some people who. You are who you are, and so the first time were. There is apartment we're talking about. We're going to do, but am I gonNA. Run Lisa's trying to set up afternoon plans will then we can do yeah, but then how am I going to get? And Lisa just very gently patiently kindly said Gary. Maybe, giving in a run isn't the most important thing this afternoon. Maybe you can run longer tomorrow a little bit shorter today and everything will be okay, and she did it in a way where I could say. Gary you're obsessing again again. Jesus came not to be served, but to serve and I was saying I want my family scheduled to revolve around the fact. I can finally run around Green Lake and get a shower immediately afterwards. Because I know somebody who has a place right next to here and it's just letting that instead of saying I want to take a shower. It's just saying. I see this marriage a chance to grow in holiness. This isn't the kind of person. I want to be so gary. Just receive it and accept it, and you know what I did. Get my run in, and in a glorious part of it actually got to run with my son and listeners, a focus on the family. Be Happy even ran into Les Parrott had great. So. It was a banner day. Of course he lives just by their self. You could use his shower. Won't let you know him that. Well. At the time I could now, but back then. I. Don't would've done that. Hey, Gary, let me give you a couple of examples or a couple of subject topics that will be a little more difficult here. Focus on the family when there's marital strife and people were writing us. US calling our counseling department, it'll be around the area of intimacy in their marriage or finances in their marriage. How would this apply in that regard? Let's say you have a couple that. You know he's spending money out of control. She's the saver and it. It's it's more serious issue. They've now accumulated twenty thousand worth of debt. She can't seem to get his attention on this. How does this apply in that context? That's a classic case where it's our sending. That makes us miserable. If you don't have your spending under control, you just inject stress and fear and uncertainty and worry into the rest of your family. You put your family's future at risk. You put your family's financial stability at risk and so being holy. There doesn't just mean putting up with it and pretending it's not happening. It might mean. mean, praying for courage to confront and to persist and to help your spouse realize this can't go on. It's not just about you. There are real issues here that we have to address and so holiness appeals to WHO. Christ is Christ confronted people. Christ comforted people Christ would convict people. Christ would heal people so holiness doesn't just mean putting up with our spouses holiness some of us. And I think I. Kind of fall into this I'm more of a people pleaser. If I WANNA be holier sometimes I have to confront more. I have to speak up more, and that would be a classic case in point where you need to do that for the sake of your family, saying this can't go on. Gary that sounds again. Theoretically the right thing to do. The correct thing to do. But how vulnerable are we to say to our spouses? Hey, let me know when I'm living. In sin I mean we don't normally sit down and talk to each other that way we should. Because this is our help mate. This is our number one. Relationship in our life, but to say to our spouse point out where all my errors are that can be really kind of. But it's what we're called to be because we're not just. Husband and wife were brother and sister in Christ. Paul tells. Husbands love you is as Christ loved the Church who gave himself up for her, and died to make her holy, and so part of love is helping somebody become more like Christ and I think we all need to do. Is Look at James Three two when James said. We all stumble in many ways. We all stumble in James had a unique perspective growing up as the brother of Jesus Christ with a completely perfect person. You can imagine what that would do that. We rivalry. But C- he compared himself to Jesus. We compare ourselves to the worst husbands we can find. Why compare themselves to the worst wives they can find? Say Look. I'm doing far better than average so now it's your time to step up. But if we had the attitude of James that I compare myself to Jesus the best of us on our Best Day stumble in many ways, then we'll deal with our stuff, too. So I'm not saying. Don't deal with your spouses stuff what I am saying is. Don't stop dealing with your stuff too well, and and you really emphasizing that great scripture and Matthew that we typically apply to our neighbor or the. The external world, which says, get the log out of your own eye before you get the SPEC out of year spouses. Let me just put it in that context, and that's really what you're saying. Work on your things that you need to improve and really when you do that. Gary, your marriage will improve because you'll have the right attitude. Don't underestimate the power of positive example when you have to spouses that are seeking to grow in holiness, it really does become geometric. You Inspire each other. You lift each other up now. Often some say, but but Gary. My spouse is never going to be there. I'm not even sure there are Christian. I believe the presence of Christ and the example of crisis so strong. Even if only one person is doing this, they're injecting the gentleness of Christ, the hope of Christ, the courage of Christ, the kindness of Christ, the unselfishness, of Crisis Service of Christ it's still going to make the marriage better not going to say it's the same as if two people are doing it, but it's still going to be much better than it would have been, if one is pursuing that earnestly well so true. True and you know what when we talk about marriage and marriage as a policy issue if we want to change the Culture Christian marriages need to be stronger to be a good witness to everyone. Gary I've got so many more questions. Can you come back next time? And let's say Delvin a little deeper on some of these great topics I wanNA talk about the difference between a contract and covenant, and how that applies marriage. Can you do that to be honest? I was hoping you'd ask. You know it's always so good Gary Thomas with us here. At focus on the family, he has such a unique way of helping. See how God wants to use marriage to make us holy and a stretch US interfaith. Ryan, his message is convicting and I realize just how human I am when it comes to marriage, even after so many years of being with gene it's. It's a choice I have to make every day to focus on holiness over happiness in my own marriage, and you know what happiness does show up as a result of choosing holiness here focus on the family. We want your marriage to thrive, and we know it's not always easy because we live it to You've likely been tested like never before in recent months because. Because of the pandemic, if your family has been hurt by unemployment, illness, isolation or separation as a result of the pandemic, we are here for you. We will continue to pray for you and your family and hopefully provide your resources to help you in any way that we can and we have Garin Christian. Counselors who will be happy to talk with you and pray with? With, you and get you on a path toward healing, and for marriages that are really needing help, but we have. Our hope restored marriage intensive We have three locations around the US, and they are doing such great work there to help husbands and wives like you and like me. Find Hope for their marriages. This kind of ministry is not possible without your prayers and. And financial support and we know the financial implications of the pandemic have reached a many of you probably about thirty six to forty million of you, and at the same time, the growing need and decrease giving here focus has caused a bit of shortfall in our own budget and I just want to make you wear that if you're able, we need your help. God has. Has provided a way to overcome this shortfall. Thanks to some generous friends that have put up a matching opportunity, which means whatever you give they're going to. They're going to match it. They're going to double it and we are grateful to them, and I see this as just a fun way of urging and spurring each other on to meet the mission that we have here. Here at Focus and please donate today. If you can. Well, we'll say thank you by sending a copy of Gary's sacred marriage, and you'll have the satisfaction of being able to go through the book or pass it along. Somebody else in knowing that your gift has been doubled call today eight, hundred, the letter, a. in the word family, or check the episode notes for further. Further details and John. Let me add this a great situation. Where a gift of any amount you'll get Gary's wonderful book, and then you're going to be doubled by some friends I mean. This is a win. Win Win, so I I hope you take us up on this wonderful offer. Do contact us today once more. That number eight hundred. The letter a word, family! On behalf of gym daily and the entire team. Thanks for joining us today four focus on the family. I'm John. Fuller inviting you back as we continue the conversation with, get and once again. Help you and your family thrive in Christ. Man I knew my marriage is falling apart I. Just didn't know how to fix it i. felt like I would always be alone even if I stayed married at focus on the family's hope restored marriage intensive. We offer hope to couples in crisis, so they can have the marriage. They've always dreamed of for the first time I felt like my husband truly heard me I've received some great tools from the counselor said of changed my life and my marriage to begin the journey of finding health. Go to hope restored DOT com today.

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The Science of Resurrecting Extinct Species

Decrypted

21:29 min | 1 year ago

The Science of Resurrecting Extinct Species

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit H P, E dot com slash green lake. To learn more. Two. You could gov. Two. This is the sound of gene and fought to northern white rhinos interacting with a rhino keeper, these rhinos, a mother and daughter, and they live at the old possessor conservancy in Equatorial central Kenya, roaming, the grassy plains, and woodland at the foot of Mount Kenya, they've lost of this species, the only to northern white rhinos left northern white rhinos are functionally extinct. That means they can't reproduce. There are no living males and both in a gene and twos. Teamed up problems with their reproductive system when they die. That's the end of the species, it may seem like the rhinos have crossed the point of no return. But Richard vine, the managing director of the conservancy in Kenya says, there's a small hope that science can save them the whole technique for the reintroduction of embryos into Reina's will have to be developed from scratch. So it's a it's a long shot from the Charles. But if the species is to be recovered, that is the process that we now have to go through with breakthroughs in DNA, sequencing scientists might one day, reconstruct, the genomes of extinct species, and with stem cells they might turn skin samples into embryos. This is the science that makes reviving extinct species plausible, but will there be consequences to the extinction? Should scientists be doing this at all? I'm got Cari, and I'm Kristen v Brown. You're listening to decrypted. The world's rhino population has been falling precipitously for decades, a hundred years ago, some five hundred thousand rhinos, roamed Africa and Asia, according to the World Wildlife Fund, but today, very few exist outside of national parks and reserves, and Richard at the conservancy in Kenya says the black market for rhino horn is to blame for the whole is the principal reason the rhino populations across Africa and Asia have decreased dramatically in the loss of fifty sixty seventy years. Sometimes people display. Rhinos trophies. But usually it's the horn thereafter. International medicine in many Asian countries rhino horn is believed to be a powerful cure when shaved or ground into a powder. But these days, Richard says it's become more of a status symbol. He said, people even sprinkle in cocktails according to one report at the rhino markets. Peak in twenty eleven orange, we're going for about eighty thousand dollars a kilo on the black market. That's twice the price of gold. Those prices have fallen, but a kilo of rhino horn can still fetch upwards of twenty thousand dollars as the rhino population dwindled in the wild conservationists were rushing to breed the lost few that live in captivity until two thousand and nine nineteen and fought who had been living in a zoo in the Czech Republic. Population is full population of northern white rhinos held in captivity in zoo conditions for for quite a period of time, but has is quite common in in rhinos. They had struggled to breed them regularly within the SUV as a result of there being held in zoo conditions, which it considered to be fairly unnatural. That's why these last northern white rhinos arrived in Kenya. They were moved there, along with two male rhinos, which have both since passed away in Kenya. They could roam vast plains and live in semi wild conditions. The zoo thought it might be easier for the rhinos to breed outside the confines of zoo, mating behavior. But unfortunately, the two females never became pregnant, and it turns out offering examination of those two females that they have they have reproductive issues, which makes it difficult for them to get pregnant. Which are probably untreatable as a function of age, and probably as a function of there being held in captivity in zoos and not being able to breathe for long period of time getting the Rinus reproduce is all the more urgent because no and fought to our aging and now there are no living males for them to breed with so Richard and his team began looking at another option in vitro, fertilization or IV f it's unclear whether Nasreen and far are even still producing eggs. But if they are the thinking is that production could be stimulated with hormones, then those eggs could be harvested and fertilized with frozen sperm taken from male rhinos over the years, and from there, the process would inferior look a lot like the way humans do it. I realizing the sperm and the egg and implanting the embryo in a surrogate. The plan is extremely experimental. It's pushing the limits of reproductive technology, even if it is possible to harvest eggs from Asia and fought to. Nobody knows if this plan will succeed. Real complication is the fact that has never been done, in Reiner's, before Reiner's, have quite complex, reproductive system. And so a whole system for the removal of eggs, otherwise referred to as ovum pick up has to be developed, and that is the process that we're currently undertaking at the moment, scientists from Europe is scheduled to go to Kenya this year to see if they can harvest eggs from nineteen and Fatou some of these techniques have been tried on southern white rhinos, which are close genetic relatives and still thrive in Africa. Southern tip so far scientists have been able to extract eggs from a female and fertilize them. They even created an embryo that was a cross between northern and southern white right now, but the resulting embryos, have it, yet lived long enough to be frozen for implantation this whole plan is a long shot, nyc. We mentioned scientists don't know if no she didn't FOSS you have eggs to harvest, and even if they do implanting, an embryo comes with a high risk of failure. But if this doesn't work there is one. More thing to try a plan, that's perhaps even less likely to succeed making eggs from scratch from stem cells. It's really it's all, yeah. People are like, that's it. That's it's there is another group of scientists also trying to save the northern white rhino. They're Homebase is an Escondido California at the San Diego. Zoo's institute for conservation research, the heart of their work is a place called the frozen zoo. I want there to visit them, the frozen zoo is not much to look at. It's an a windowless room at the back of an office building full of lots of big metal tanks. Those tanks are crowding six their full of liquid nitrogen. And the temperature inside is minus a hundred ninety six degrees celsius. Love this. You don't make noise. That is the sound of the frozen zoos, curator Marlins hawk, pulling a rack of slender vials filled with millions of frozen cells out of one of them. This is a bunch of different animals. So this is a box of a hundred files and we use color codes. So that's what you're seeing. You can see they're numbered. When through ten and rose all the way down to one hundred. And then I take off the lid. Wow. I mean, that's crazy that just, you know, here are the potential future species in these little teeny vials. The further do has been collecting and freezing cell samples from all kinds of animals for the last four decades. Or so there are more than a thousand species in about ten thousand individual animals in the frozen zoos collection. Does you gets biological samples from animals when they die, or maybe have surgery or get tagged usually, those samples are skin biopsies, and there are three full-time cell culture is at the zoo, who extract and grow the cells? If you keep cells at the right temperature, and feed them the right food. They will just keep dividing and multiplying until there are millions of cells on any given day cells from forty species might be incubating in the lab, it takes about a month to grow enough cells to freeze. All of these cultures, are of cells known as fiber black. Ass. It's the most common cell type an animal connective tissue once enough cells are cultured. They can be frozen and preserved in liquid nitrogen and revived any point in the future. The frozen zoo has samples from twelve northern white rhinos including the two that is still alive for the rhinos. The frozen zoo is the last resort. Those frozen cells are the key to an ambitious plan to save them. Business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes. They want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP green lake pay per use outcomes on your terms, come to HP green lake and see the future of IT get there at HP dot com slash green lake. If you thought the scientists trying to harvest eggs from the rhinos in Kenya had an uncertain Tosca ahead of them. The odds of the frozen zoos plan working even more unknown. Remember the first group of scientists is hoping that at least one of the remaining rhinos will produce eggs, which can then be harvested and fertilized, but the frozen zoo wants to take rhino skin cells, and make an egg out of that. One of the scientists in charge of this project is Barbara Durant director of reproductive sciences, at the San Diego zoo. She said the idea for this plan came from a groundbreaking technique, which was first developed in Japan. Scientists were able to take skin cells from mice and reprogram them, changing them from skin cells into something known as a pluripotent stem cell best himself is a basic building block of life. These are cells that can turn into many other types of cells, it's how a baby can start off as an egg and sperm and develop into an embryo with blood cells and brain cells, and skin cells. But these scientists manage to do it in reverse the work wanna Nobel prize. Scientists at the zoo wanted to see if they could use the same methods to turn the rhino cells back into stem cells, so they could eventually be reprogrammed to become rhino sperm and eggs before going ahead to turn rhino skin into Ryan with stem cells. Researchers had to figure out whether they had enough genetic diversity in their collection to even try it. This is a really important consideration. If your goal is to bring back an entire species, they wanted it to be a healthy population and not inbred and riddled with genetic disease, Barbara believed. There was enough genetic diversity, so they began their work, and so we're at that stage now. And we, we see that those pluripotent stem cells are, in fact, pluripotent, they can be directed to differentiate into all three of the embryonic cell types, and they are functional in those cell types. So everything we've done. So far has been successful turning those skin cells into induced pluripotent stem cells is a very important early. Step is quite a complex process but so far, it's working quite well, the ultimate goal, of course, is to turn those stem cells into sperm and eggs. But that's not the only thing that would need to happen to turn those skin samples into baby. Rhinos, what might team is doing in, in parallel, with that work is, we are perfecting optimizing, the assisted reproductive techniques will be needed to actually take those permanents and fertilize them in the lab, grow the embryos, which is again another few another couple of procedure that require a thousand little steps. It's not as easy as just, you know, putting them together in vitro when you hear it explained like this, it can sometimes seems simple but a lot of these steps have never been done before. Rhino's. So there's a fair amount of trial and error just because scientists in Japan were successful when working with mice cells doesn't mean it's going to work with a rhino between species. There is a lot of biological diversity, and that means what works for one species in a lab doesn't necessarily work for another. But if all of that goes, well, hopefully Barbara's team will have a viable embryo, the next step would be to implant, the lab grown rhino embryo, into a southern white rhino, a close genetic relative. But then Barbara's team will face the same challenges as those European scientists working with the conservancy no one has ever done an embryo transfer in a rhino either asked Barbara, how realistic this idea really is. I mean, honestly, just sounds like science fiction. Yes. It's very ambitious. We understand that and the chances of failure are not not insignificant. But we do think that scientifically it is possible. Okay, kristen. So we've explained how scientists are planning to go about saving the rhinos now. Let's zoom out why put all of this effort into trying to save species. That's already functionally extinct. This is a really valid question. Not everyone thinks we should be doing this, but the strongest argument in favor of using science to bring back extinct animals, is that there is an environmental benefit time, people really work to put a species back in a habitat, no matter how long it's been missing. There are these amazing gains to conservation. This has been Novak had scientists at an organization called revive and restore this group is undertaking. Some of the most cutting edge and controversial work happening in the space. He's trying to bring back the passenger pigeon, which died off in nineteen fourteen and the woolly mammoth, which has been extinct for about three thousand years. It's really a crucial element to restorative. Ecology. We want to put the passenger pigeon back in the forest for wildlife. It's not necessarily just for helping human needs. And for creating the ecological services that humans want, but the mammoth is actually about converting habitat. It's not about enriching a habitat that exists. It's completely. Converting. Habitat for very human driven needs Kristen, what are the conservation gains that Ben thinks we're going to see Ben gave me the example of the gray wolf and Yellowstone National Park. The wolf was hunted out of existence and the American west. But in the nineties, gray wolves from Canada, where reintroduced Yellowstone today, the park says wolves have made a huge difference in the local college. There aren't just more walls. They're also more beavers and Aspen trees that does sound promising. But don't you think that while the gray wolf was gone from Yellowstone for just a couple of generations? It sounds like a very different thing to bring back the willy mammoth, which. Has been gone for millennia, right? And I should say scientists debate how much the gray wolf has really helped Yellowstone ecosystem in the decades of wolf was gone so much in the park's changed, bringing one predator back can't possibly fix an entire ecosystem. Yeah. And just personally that idea of bringing back a species like the willy mammoth, which has been gone for so long. It sounds a bit like humans messing with nature in a way that could have unexpected ramifications further down the line. Right. And that's not the only argument against providing your stink species. I also talked to Ross MacPhee about this. He's one of the strongest critics out there. He's a curator at the American Museum of natural history at New York and a paleo Malla gist, which means he studies ancient mammals as usual. Volvos. Madonna needs are and because we've made a mess of the planet and are continuing to do, so somehow he wanted to get a technological fix this isn't the sex it's going to make a difference. It's just not Ross said that trying to resurrect the woolly mammoth or even the northern white rhino is missing. The point fixing the wrong problem the problem. He said is humans things like poaching and destruction of natural habitats. Why bring back species from the past and some solving the problems that continue to threaten living species today? If you want to feel the tension province for really do have some merit. Then surely those are the kinds of problems do not trying to. You know, so surpassed say that you're going to bring back things and some sort of balance as they were at the end of the place. This is this is fraudulent. It's not anything that is ever going to happen. So you're saying it's a waste of resources that could be going to help save species that are still alive. Ross said it's also not clear that reintroducing loss species. We'll have any positive impact on the environment. It's the Kristen I actually find Russ's argument pretty compelling. But even if after all this process, a baby rhino is born, there will still be coaches out there who after its horn, right? This is a multi pronged problem and science can't fix everything. But, you know, I'm a science reporter, I love science, and I tend to think that his perspective is actually to narrow. There is value in the idea of science for the sake of science. Sure this is expensive to do right now, on their other species that aren't extinct. There are threatened, but who knows where this. Science will lead or how expensive it will be in the future. The verse genome sequence caused billions of dollars. And now you can get a full sequencing for thousand dollars or twenty three and me test for one hundred so who knows where this will lead Kristen, my perspective on this issue has actually changed over the course of the last few weeks that we've been working on it together, you know, at the outset, I went into this thinking much more about how saving the rhinos is a noble cause, it's something we should be doing because it's an altruistic thing to do, but then a few weeks ago, the intake of mental panel on climate change released the devastating report, which talked about how a million different species could be at risk of extinction in the coming decades, and that really made me think about how our own destiny as a civilization depends upon the health and abundance of the natural world. You know, the rule materials that we use for manufacturing, the food and fresh water that we rely on to survive. All of these things depend on having plentiful natural habitats. And it made me think about conserving the rhinos in a different light. One thing I was thinking a lot about when we were recording. This is, you know what it means to restore something what it means to save species. We talk about restoring the passenger pigeon, which went extinct in nineteen fourteen but very little of our world looks like it did in nineteen fourteen when we talk about conservation, we're, we're talking means really static terms. But I think the world is really a lot more dynamic than that. So I mean like how, how do you think about conservation in a world? That's fluid on the one hand, we don't wanna be nostalgic, and be trying to bring back things that have passed out of existence already on the other hand, we really do need to pay attention to save. What's still left? And I wonder I would be interested to see whether further down the line. Some of these new emerging scientific techniques are able to, you know, once they've been tested and refined on a species. Like the rhino, maybe there will be a more mainstream and more potent application for it. Right. So this fight is much bigger than the right now. It's about saving what's left of the world's natural habitats, and recognizing that we also derive economic benefit from a healthy planet. That's it for this week's episode of decrypted. Thanks for listening. We always want to know what you think of the show, you can write to us at decrypted at Bloomberg dot net. Or I'm on Twitter at Christian be Brown, and I'm at got Cari, and please help us spread the word about our show by leaving us a rating or review, wherever you like to listen, this episode was produced by p good Cari on Lindsey Crowder will our story editor with Emily Buso. Thank you. Also to Akihito amd, Vander may, and Brad stone Francesca Levy, is head of Bloomberg podcast. We'll see you next week. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit h p dot com slash green lake. To learn more.

Rhino Kenya Hewlett Packard HP green lake Rhinos Kristen Richard vine Barbara Durant Africa Asia Cari Mount Kenya Ross MacPhee Yellowstone Brown Japan gov. Two World Wildlife Fund
For Police, Social Media Is Now Part of the Job

Decrypted

20:00 min | 1 year ago

For Police, Social Media Is Now Part of the Job

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit H P, E dot com slash green lake. To learn more. In a small high school in a rural pot of Idaho. I'm sitting in a cramped office with a police officer called David Gomez. We're looking at his phone scrolling through a feed of short videos on the popular app tick talk. This is something David does often. It's part of his job as a school resource officer, and one of the ways he keeps tabs on the kids here by monitoring, what students are posting David can keep an eye out for drug dealers and predators anyone who could pose a risk right now? We're watching a video of a girl in jeans, and a sweater singing along to a song. And to me, it looks pretty normal. So this is a good example, would I show parents? Completely innocent field, but guys will copy this and they'll say, hey, while look at biz she should wear this kind of raw she should do this. She's got semi five thousand. That's right. Seventy five thousand likes when David started doing this work about seven years ago, he thought it would involve breaking up fights and keeping guns and drugs out of school. But he quickly learned that kids social lives had moved onto platforms like tick tock, Snapchat, Instagram in YouTube, and that came with a whole new set of dangers. So these are people, she doesn't know at all. Cliche, honest and may. Said hanging a said, hammer, other telling her, she's anorexic. They're telling her. Cliche to honest. This is a story about trying to keep up with a generation that spends more and more of its waking hours in a virtual reality and learning how to protect them from some of it's very real world repercussions. I'm got Cari, and I'm Shelly banjo. And you're listening to decrypted. Officer, David Gomez is forty five and he's a toll laid back guy. School officials say he's a good cop and he's incredibly friendly. It's so nice to meet, you, meet you come on in. He got assigned as a school resource officer because he was good at dealing with kids over the years. He's worked at a number of schools. I went there to meet him in his small rural community an hour outside of Boise Idaho before becoming a police officer David Gomez spent more than a decade working in tech at a contractor for chipmaker Micron home about ten years ago. I saw an ad in the paper for law enforcement opening and I took the job there. My first three years, there were on patrol just street cop like everybody else. And then I became the school resource officer at a middle school. That's where my education and social media began. He says, at that time has made experience with social media was an outdated my space page, but he had to quickly get up to speed on a bunch of hot apps. Once he realized just how much time the kids at school spent on their phones. Every problem had something to do with social media, whether it was bullying drug dealing doping suicidal kids, everything. On social media any on in his new job. He decided to run a little experiment. He created a Facebook account with a fake name and photo pretending to be a fellow student at the middle school. He worked at. And when I added some of the popular kids, they all accepted me that same within the hour. They were accepting me. And once I had all the popular kids is friends, because I had friends in common with them. Everybody else started adding me. I didn't even have to ask people after that, that I Facebook account opened a whole new world for David now he could see who the kids in school were talking to and what they were saying to each other pretty soon he identified a threat. But when we met a predator who had advertised himself as a twenty six year old marine sergeant he came to meet isn't it was actually a homeless guy. And so, to see what kind of a problem, we had, we made a bunch of fake accounts, and we realize that the problem was huge of sexual predators right here local. That's summit David helped start with the police force called a predator team. The idea was to understand how a Dulce would targets and kids and identified this kind of behavior online before it got dangerous for students at the school, it became clear that part of that job would be explaining to parents and students what some of the risks were on these platforms. And that's how he found himself asking parents to tell that kids not to send naked pictures of themselves over the internet David says people would be shocked if they knew how often and how easily could send naked photos of themselves. He says that because they see an unending stream of sexualize photos and music flow through platforms like Snapchat and tick tock. It doesn't even feel weird for your kids anymore, when friends or even strangers. Ask for them at the high school level and any big high school by eleventh grade, I would say seventy to eighty percent of the girls have sent out there. Naked picture by eighth grade. Meaning in the middle school where at about fifteen percent and weekly, we're taking report. Of eight year olds nine year olds, ten-year-old, sending out, naked pictures, just because they've been groomed to think that it's okay it's not that big a deal while I was in Idaho. I sat down with several students at the schools where David worked and all of the girls said they had been asked for nude photos. It was like asking if they had heard of Kim Kardashian. Like, of course they had his one high school junior. Alexa, porter have you ever been ost for nude photo? Yeah. Any no? And do you feel any pressure or anxiety around the kinds of things that you posed or how frequently you post? Yeah, I do. So I kind of like monitor my posting range to who I'm catering to which sounds really bad. But it's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I do. But not every student is as careful some boys will make a fake Snapchat account. And they will contact girls on Snapchat, and they'll say, hey, I have a naked picture of you. Send me a new one to me, personally or else they call it blasting up last year. Naked picture all over the place. Meaning I'll put on Instagram. I'll send it to your family. I'll send it to everybody now, so many girls have sent out there. Naked picture that the chance that they have an pictures possible. Concerns about what kids are exposed to on the internet have been around since the early days of AOL chat rooms, but today ninety five percent of US teens who smartphones and forty five percents say there online, almost constantly, according to the Pew Research Center. Meanwhile, the social media industry is booming tick tock has been downloaded more than a billion times globally, Instagram's parent company. Facebook is now valued at half a trillion dollars YouTube and snap. That's the company which owns Snapchat continues to pull in a growing share of ad dollars each year. In some ways these platforms, have great because they helped bring people closer together. But in other ways, they seem pretty harmful besides the potential for abuse. There's also just the hours of screen time and amped up social pressure. Studies have linked social media with anxiety, depression, and even suicide in teens. These problems exist across social media, but three platforms kept coming up during our interviews with David and other law. Enforcement officials as well as parents, kids and regulators one is snap, where parents say that disappearing messages, make it harder to keep tabs on their kids. Another is YouTube, which has come under fire for its recommendation system. It can surface unsavory content and also make it easy for pedophile to watch videos of young children. And the third one is newcomer tick tock, which David says can be risky precisely because it seems so innocent so to talk. Snug up on people and when kids would show their parents have fun video making things and you could lip sync and you can make funny. Whatever parents taught because it's a kids app. It must be safe for kids and that was what kind of bypass some of the regular questions that parents, should ask of applications? Like, hey, does it put your GPS on there? Can you private message who else is watching these videos, snap, tick talking YouTube all said they take children's safety. Very seriously. They emphasized that, that platforms aren't designed for kids younger than thirteen. And when they find underage uses they closed those accounts YouTube said in the first quarter. It took down eight hundred thousand videos over violations of its child safety policy snap told us that it's modeled private messaging serves to protect kids because it's harder for harmful content to go viral, but social media has completely changed the nature of David's job in a lot of ways, for example, drug sales, but completely differently now when I visited him in Idaho. He pulled out his phone and. Open his fake Snapchat account to demonstrate clicking through stories from local drug dealers, showcasing bape, cartridges and marijuana for CEO, David said some of these accounts from past students. Others people who accepted, his friend requests, even though they don't know him. The last twenty four hours this guy. So they're open for business, which means they'll deliver. So here these are going to be vape cartridges, and they're going to be marijuana can't cartridges 'cause nobody pays thirty dollars per cartridge. They're usually like five dollars, so thirty dollar one's going to have a lot. Snap said accounts used to sell drugs are an intentional abuse of veterans of service, and that the company removes these accounts when they're reported. Meanwhile, David says he uses the Snapchat accounts to arrest drug dealers once those people are close to campus with cocaine or whatever it is. He can bust them, but there's something else something even more serious. That's always on his mind. What if someone wants to hurt the kids in his school? Often social media provides the first clues about a school shooter, or another kind of attack and it's these cases where law enforcement will take extraordinary measures. Business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes, they want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP e green lake pay per use outcomes on your terms, come to HP green lake and see the future of IT get there at HP dot com slash cream lake. Off to spending some time with office David Gomez. I realized that drug busts and tracking down predators is stuff. He does all the time, but there are other less frequent incidents that he's always on the alert for including school shooting threats. David said that not long ago apparent reached out to him off to seeing messages on Snapchat. That suggested someone was planning an attack David use Snapchat account to look at the messages. And then the next day he saw another message this one included some specifics. Be at the school tomorrow at this location, and don't be there. If you wanna live, this is the kind of lead he has to investigate quickly to determine if the threat is real. So he reached out to Snapchat itself. He said. Go to the school. I need help. So the tech companies go through and say, hey, look, here's the IP address. Here's the Email address, or here's a phone number. So then I look, and they tell me when they created to so I can see if it just got graded for this purpose, or if it's a mature account in some cases, this would be enough information to figure out which kid is making the threat this time though he needed more information. So David called the cable company gave it the IP address the web browser he'd received from snap, and the cable company matched it to a physical home address. Once I find the address, we're going there. How long does it take the tech companies to get that information to you are probably? I can have the address of where the person is in twenty minutes. And as long as you have the right of thority, and you give them the right paperwork, afterwards or before. Sometimes I just have to mail them letterhead, this will follow up with whatever paperwork is needed. David found the kid making the threats. Luckily, this time it was a hoax in other situations where he's found evidence and attack was being planned. He's had to make an arrest. But in this case, he turned matters over to the school who suspended the student for a week. Hearing David talk about this made me curious about exactly how this relationship between the police, and the tech companies works. So a threat to the school. Suicidal person kidnapping. You know, some kind of a domestic violence, where. Imminent danger means there's likeliness to be great bodily harm or death, so any situation where there's a possibility of imminent danger, which is great bodily harm or death. They will help us very quickly. Snap says it received nearly seven thousand criminal legal requests for data from July to December of last year, including search warrants and Wia tap orders. It complied with eighty seven percents of them, a spokesman confirmed that encases web police officers quote swear. There is an imminent threat to life safety snap. Can disclose certain user information right away offices are required to follow up with the correct legal process like a subpoena off to the threat has subsided? And the same goes for Facebook, which said it complied with seventy three percent of the one hundred and ten thousand data requests, from law enforcement during that same period and across the board, the law enforcement agents and regulators, we talked to said the tech companies are mostly responsive and accessible. But some of these tactics also highlights and uncomfortable off between safety and privacy. It raises the question of how much surveillance is too much, especially when it comes to children take tick tock, for example. I learned in the course of my reporting that tick tock now uses facial recognition to predict the ages of users and to identify when someone might be underage. That's a protection measure, but that also means it scanning kids faces that in itself can seem a little creepy for some people. But some experts think that developing new technology will have to be part of the solution, like, Julie Inman, grunt who worked at Microsoft intuitive to decades and now heads up a commission on internet safety for the Australian government for a long time. We have been seen in for mental innovations and changes. I think we're starting to see the deployment of more technology tools like artificial intelligence and machine learning which have a great ability to help detect and remove abusive and harmful material, before it's posted. But I think we need more of that, and we need real leadership, that change the culture around, how technology and services are developed safety has to be. And children's rights and ethics need to be at the core of technology development, rather than just an afterthought. But a lot of children's advocates think tech companies needs to do more to keep young kids off their sites in the first place earlier this year. Tick tock had to pay a record. Fine to the US government for legally collecting data of users under h thirteen even for all minors using these platforms. Julia emphasize that once tech companies have sensitive information about their youngest users, they have to make sure the data is used appropriately and is kept completely confidential. But you also need to make sure that if you're collecting this kind of really sensitive personal information that you're not creating security and privacy issues by creating honeypots of information of sensitive information that can be exploited. In other ways a tick tock spokesperson told us that promoting a safe and positive environment is a top priority. And that this is a complex industry-wide challenge. Ticks said it deploys, a combination of technology and moderation to address misuse of its platform. Back in Idaho officer, David Gomez has started posting Tores on his own Facebook page trying to clue parents into what's going on with the kids social accounts, he's gonna following around ten thousand people, including parents and educators across the country. He says most parents, even the ones who are really engaged. We'll never know everything. Their kids are getting up to online. There's one thing they can control though, when they give their child a phone still parents, the minimum age of thirteen plus the understanding that the kids are gonna look at pornography, not child porn, which is regular pornography. But what we're seeing is about third grade now. So eight seven and eight many, many kids are already getting their own smartphones. We're taking bullying reports from third graders already because they're taking pictures, putting them online posting on Instagram accounts. Some of my seventh and eighth grade girls have Tinder account how the tips include a biding by app age limits. Not allowing kids to keep their phones in that rooms at night, disabling messages, and public posting young children and making sure kids only accept friend requests from people, they know in real life. It can feel like a never ending tossed as one parent. I talk to jaycee Holman explained I mean, it is truly a lot of work to try to stay on top of it. And I don't think it's possible to stay ahead of everything your kids or doing unless you are extremely tech savvy and devote a significant amount of your life to it, and it continues to get harder now that tech companies use artificial intelligence to create highly individualized social feeds features like disappearing messages and Balts that hide certain posts, it means what a parent sees on the app and with their kids. See are often totally different ultimately, there's really no true way to know exactly what they're doing it feels. What you feel a little helpless, because they all have phones and the only way to do. It is to not allow them to have one and in this day and age. It would be like cutting off the air. They breathe. I mean in their minds. So it's. It's really a mixed feeling because it gives me access to her. But on the flip side at gave everybody else that same access. That's it for this week's episode of decrypted. Thanks for listening. We always like to know what you think of the show, you can write to us at decrypted at Bloomberg dot net or I'm on Twitter at s banjo, and I'm at at Cari, and please help us spread the word about our show by leaving us a racing or review and you'll favorite podcast app. This episode was produced by pm at Cari, and Lindsey credible. Our story editor was an Vander may take. You also to Akito, Emily, byu, so, and Brad stone Francesca Levy is head of Bloomberg podcast, this episode marks the end of our spring season. But we'll be back in September with full slate of news stories have a great summer. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit H P, E dot com slash green lake. To learn more.

David Gomez Hewlett Packard Facebook Instagram Idaho HP green lake YouTube officer Snapchat middle school Snapchat Snapchat Snap US hammer Kim Kardashian Alexa
Google Workers Rise Up: Inside the Protests

Decrypted

25:00 min | 1 year ago

Google Workers Rise Up: Inside the Protests

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit H P, E dot com slash green lake. To learn more. Google is in the midst of a major upheaval. It's not an understatement. To say it could change the way the world's largest internet company operates forever. Since it was founded Google has had a special relationship with its employees, especially the engineers, who write the software code, but runs the services we love and have come to depend upon things like online, search maps, Android phones, and the chrome web browser as these people very well famously working at Google also comes with tons of perks, like swimming pools, and free food. But what's really unique is the amount of a sponsor ability and autonomy. The company gives stuff Google Hsieh's, unusual amount of internal company information with its employees and encourages them to speak up about things, they disagree with over the years, everything from app designs and search results to what kind of kale should be served in the company kitchens has been up for debate and as a result, Google services and products have benefited from the collective intelligence of many of the world's smartest engineers. It's a big reason why the company's offerings, a so user friendly and why they make billions of dollars and. Prophet every quarter on this symbiosis round pretty smoothly until about two years ago. Now after a series of controversies and protests, some work has openly at war with Google is already derailed important business initiatives and is sparking employees uprisings that other tech giants like Amazon and Microsoft. We're going to take you inside these foundation shaking developments with Irene nap. A self taught senior software engineer, he's being at Google for almost five years, working on security and privacy projects. I'm got Cari. Ann, I'm Alice DuBois. You're listening to decrypted. So Alastair tell us more about Irene. I, I met Irene last year. At Google shareholder meeting. Irene was there speaking in favor of a proposal to tie, executive pay to progress on diversity and inclusion Irene has had a front, row seat throughout the last two tumultuous years at the company, either by being personally involved in protests or via relationships with co workers on the front lines. Irene his trans and goes by the gender pronoun, they or them. They agree to talk about all this, but not any private work. They're doing for Google. We met last month at the Bloomberg office in Silicon Valley know wanted to get into the first time maybe you will management and, and some of the workers, maybe started partying ways a little bit. So to me, things really go back to James damore in August defy seventeen over what we have on the memo's instead. Then. Cannot people realize is there were many versions of the memo, copied find period of two weeks science for argument, which one is this misogynous view that women are not supposed to be engineers. Let me quickly, refresh. Everyone's memory about this incident, a couple of years ago, Google is facing accusations from grief of female employees at the company was paying them less than men doing similar work around that time a long essay, which had been circulating on Google message boards Cup picks up in the press. It was written by James damore. He was an engineer at Google at the time and its central theme was at men may be more suited to where in tech them women offensive and harmful than is how the CEO of Google is describing, anti-diversity memo written by one of Google's male employees now the engineer behind the manifesto, which claims women are, and how did how would you Google's response to that crisis company fire him after getting Bill ducks in a row? The Google software engineer behind this controversial ten page memo is out gone after blasting diversity and women in the workplace as source of Google Chelsea and was pleased about that was not so that there was any internal communication, and there were, there was a man series of town homes, which was cancelled actually about half an hour before the first happened. Did Google scrap these meetings? So abruptly Irene said, questions, announces that had been prepared for the town halls will leak to the public then James damore and other plaintiffs filed a suit against Google, alleging violation of their labor rights. The complaint included screen shots of internal company communications, conveniently, all the people politically read with their names have been redacted by, you know, my friends have been named in fall and many people began featuring on harassment websites for Iranian. This was the moment when Google's began to really work in unison to change things. Together a petition and we did get a meeting with the company's upper management being west time to my knowledge that addition is had not resolved. The company has some responsibility there because this is a part of a social change, which was a naval by. And you know it's Google Google is big of was a part of. Okay. So that's how it all got started. What happened next? I'd say the next big flare up between workers in Google management happened, several months later, he had to do with the project that Google had in the works with the Pentagon to provide offficial intelligence tantalized drone footage internally, it was known as Pershing maven now. I mean in most other workers didn't hear about this until details were leaked to the press in March two thousand eighteen some three thousand Google IRS, as Google employees are known have sent CEO soon. Darpa CHAI, an open letter, asking him to end who operation with the US department of defense's project made it that venture includes the secrecy around. Jay maven seem to violate Google's practice. If open communication with employees and importantly, it also veered away from the company's focus on consumer products and into military work as an engineer. A little bit different. When I hear that I think most people think bombs, I think surveillance, because, you know, the states does have high fine drones which could just survey entire city at once. But I don't think any government deserves enough will power, I think it's too much, if I had wanted to work for a defense contractor, if I want to refer Martin ever done that. Google employees didn't like working on artificial intelligence projects for the military that thought it was wall work. So the demanded that the Google step back, and they did committed not for you that attract the best buy knowledge that has happened. Although I have the strong feeling that, that the military may have simply hired some verse into a start up that they're still running it on our facing service that last part is pretty damning Irene is saying that because Google's cloud services and many of his AI tools are available for anyone to use. There's a way for the company to continue helping the Pentagon without directly, working with it says that trim, I asked you about this and several other points I in raised the company declined to comment, but doodles, took lawyer Kent Walker has said that Google, let the contract expire and work closely with the Pentagon to make the transition, quote, in a way that is consistent with our AI principles and contractual commit. Isn't so Alastair as I recall the controversy over project maven died down off to Google said it wasn't going to renew the contract, but within a few months, Google was back in hot water with this work as again, Google has been working on a secret project. Code-named Dragonfly Dragonfly was a censored version of its search engine for China. And so today, the New York Times broke the news about a protest letter signed by fourteen hundred employees they wanted to quote, raise urgent moral and ethical issues saying, currently, we do not news about this secret project, Dragonfly, Colson uproar inside Google. Was found out through the press. And I was frankly shop. Of course, this was going to censor. Search engine I, I saw version of the search results age, and, you know, we're Google search result page for all level mayor, and it has a very high standard to be neutral to reflect the world as it is, which is not the only possible choice. But it is the choice that has been remade into the top Easter petition is still on and see a version of that page where with a search for candidates player, which had I believe the first result was something about the myth of Daman slayer admitted map something that affect ibn, and other employees this undermines the reason Google assists to organize the wills information and make it universally accessible and useful. Because, you know, if Google can't be relied on to say, what's through who can. Who do you trust? Project Dragonfly, also divided stuff, though, other employees who argued that providing services to China's huge population was aligned with Google's mission. But in Washington, it was a double punch this combination of Google withdrawing from US military contract. While simultaneously building a search service, that would help and authoritarian communist government censor information. It was too much for some politicians, eventually Google CEO's in their Pichai had to testify in front of congress to explain himself that happened in December twenty eighteen. So I'm gonna ask for specifically are any employee currently having product meetings on this on this Chinese project. And if not when do those end we have undertaken internal effort. But right now, there are no plans to launch a search service in China, as I said earlier, are there any current discussions with any member of the Chinese government on lawn. Shing this app. Currently we are not in discussions, around launching President Donald Trump was commenting on this as recently as much in a tweet. He said, quote, Dougal is helping China in the military, but not the US terrible. We'll be right back. business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes, they want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP green lake paper use outcomes on your terms, come to HP green lake and see the future of IT get there at HP dot com slash green lake. As two thousand eighteen progressed. It really started to feel like the clashes between Google management and work as a heating up in a way, we'd never seen before the Dragonfly controversy was still playing out in Washington, when the next bombshell landed, what was that it was a story published by the New York Times in late October. And it said that Google had given one of its top executives cement, called Andy Rubin, who co created the Android mobile operating system. A massive nine hundred million dollar exit package, even though he'd been accused of sexual harassment and an internal investigation by bugle had found the allegation to be credible. Andy Rubin has said reports about his conduct and departure from Google misrepresented the facts, I knew that was in the works was very is. There was awful story, and it was possible to gather that's Bonnie from so many people that it was simply knowing verbal. I feel. And. The response was pretty much immediately. I think it was a matter of days walkout happen. And he came up with that did that that style spontaneous. He'll, yes. Actually, it was a number of people who had previously, I gather they had been two things very similar to the kinds of effort, type and doing, you know, I came from a remote part of that campus at headed down to join the it was really protest atmosphere. And you know my sign not. Okay. And. Hear what people had to say and see you the real strength in numbers. Then I believe the file number was funny thousand people worldwide. Transparency accountability. Try to contain the rage by getting along with the protests to some degree. CEO Sunda Pichai made sure that manages could make arrangements to cover for staff. He wanted to take and how, how did the company his phone because in a way in a way they become supportive on us? Table of like eagles offi. Jones, Iran Lucien Eder, but I realize, it's not it's not really Joan. It's. It's actually a very common management active to trae in dissent as officially sanction fit for you. Bethany? What, what do you think of the most important things that she changed? So I think the biggest thing is changed is that Googlers understand that we need to talk to each other, or we won't understand what's company, we don't share our stories. We won't know we'll just be compartmentalized, and everyone who's going through something horrible, something like any of what would spoke to never reporter, experienced the Elvis is just me. I'm alone. Maybe I'm the precis want, which is certainly how companies everywhere have always tried to make people feel in those situations exception Aniston. What's happened to Irene and all the other Google has who've been protesting so much in the last couple of years, I can't imagine Google is very pleased with them. Well, some employees said recently that. Google has retaliated against them. So I bought that up with Irene personally. What I experienced is everybody. I know everybody who's doing ositive changes company. It's working to make ice better. Has been feeling this on has experienced, you know, something even if it's even if it's small even if it's an interaction with HR where they say. You know, step back from communicating by journalists. And you say, though, are you telling me that I have to do that or suggesting they say, oh, I'm just suggesting then afterward they fall off. They try to get it in writing that they told you have to follow up and say, no, that's not my recollection of beating it was just advice. Correct. You're not telling you that I can't, I'm why, why, why would they do something like that? Just a tactic. I don't think any different from any other company in that regard. So, you know, establishing a contemporaneous ridden record of what happened is. Likely to carry more weight than your testimony about how the conversation really went some protesters, say they've been demoted will had responsibilities taken away. One of these people is mode with, with she's a Google research, who specializes in a I and co founded a group called AI now, that studies the impact of this technology on society. So she founded a nonprofit now with, you know, in my thing, as an engineer were is relevant to this is doing absolutely incredible war. Meredith was told and I it was a bit in the US I think that she would not be able to focus on that were care capacity at Google, and of the company stories were longer aligned with the I now, which is a star thing to say since it's on sane companies priorities are remind with what's good for the world, then it may some Google's organiz decision to share stories of retaliation by the company. But this event was a lot smaller than the walkout protests doodle has policies to prohibit Mattel at work and provides ways for workers to report, such behavior and investigates, all reports, but I said the company didn't sanction the Sitton combined with reports of Taliban, people may have felt nervous about taking. This is the test of. You know, can they get rid of what if they must be was the troublemakers will have work? I think everybody else is watching to see what happens to us or grew. And how do you feel that sounds like you feel bit targeted? Yes. Now as an individual Basilan Prevette group, and what he thinks going to happen to the group, I think we're going to win. I think companies affects year show a great desperation wouldn't do anything so blatant, if they had any better options, I think they know how the world views this now that they know that Google isn't some magical place, where everything is perfect that it's a company like any other corporation, what can the other multinational corporation that, you know, ultimately tries its best to think of people as interchangeable. Okay. I want listeners to stop an mall that last comment for a second. I've been covering Google on and off for about five years. So this is shocking to hear co founder, Larry page has always wanted to giggle to be an unconventional company, but here I mean is saying, this is no longer the case. So Elliott, I'm curious about whether all of these protests by employee's a starting to hurt Google's business in any way, I think it could, for sure. I think Google's ability to hire, and keep talent is a really underappreciated part of his success. And you know, these, these protests really are all about how that special relationship between Google is workers has sought to break down, so it could be could be lot harder to, to keep hold of talented people or high new ones. And so what about Google's actual businesses? You know, we've already heard that Google had to step away from project maven, which is a valuable contract that could have led to more business that other projects that are at risk in this way. I think the. Main thing to look at here is Google's cloud computing business. This is the business of way you basically have a bunch of servers, and data centers, new rent them out to other companies and Amazon and Microsoft. We lead in that business is really booming industry, and Google is third and a bit late to to that business. Now a big cloud customers in the US is the US military and on the board, US government. So if officials while he that Google Stafa gonna keep derailing projects like maven that could make them pick. Amazon, or Microsoft, Tina when other contracts come up forbidding, what about the popularity of the CEO, cinde Pataki? He's historically being quite popular within the company and I wonder if that's beginning to change at all. So there was a an internal employee survey. The actually she Google does it every year that this latest one which came out in around early two thousand and nineteen it again, got leaked into the press. We wrote about it as well and it. It showed that among employees, some, the pitch is still still has a solid rating, but actually it went down by by more than ten percentage points compared to compared to the previous year. So that has been that has been a drop in the way, the employee's think about him and over the last few months Pichai has had to address the protests from workers. He said that Google has listened to concerns about the way the military uses AI and the companies made quite a few changes in response. He's also said, the employees should be able to choose what they work on. But he emphasized that Google is going to continue, working with the US military. His a clip of him talking about this in November New York Times conference. We don't run the company biter from them. And I think there are many things good about, we've given employees, a lot of warriors and out of which we've done well as a company, and I think it's part of the process, I think other companies may not be used to it. And so it looks like you know, that is how everything works. That's not how everything works position. So we make. They may not often be frustrated and then coming back to Irene. I'm wondering how they're feeling at this point because employees have managed to push through some real change at Google at the same time. These recent reports of retaliation must not be very encouraging. I did off some about a wanted looking back over this roughly a year of more than a year. Will be Trump's absolutely. I came to the tech industry into Google with the idealistic or woman, king positive change in the world. And I still feel that in some respects, and I also feel greatly privileged to be in a position where I can make my own positive change to the company. Brought me striving to and his this come at a personal cost to Irene. Yes. I renew also talked about the toll of anonymous people goading and harassing them online. Frankly, we're talking about white supremacists year. They are as shallow as you could possibly imagine, more shallow. I think they would say somebody, I can be his, they might say effective, or it will just express this, that anybody by all could possibly be somebody at all important that anybody. Liked me. He could do anything significant Irene managed to remain calm, three more than an hour of discussing this with me, the only time they really got upset was discussing how these anonymous harassers targeted Google co founders, Larry page and Sergei Brin. Founders are, you know, they haven't Jewish fat rounds of areas, nature's and so to these. Marrying Sergei who are brilliant engineers, who invented the algorithm that the company spilt on personally are simply not entities, because Jewish, it just so shallow it was clear to me from this, that I still love Koogle, at least what the company used to send for and what it could once again, be now what do you think the future looks for both you, you and Google anew? Excellent question. I don't know you know how much longer leaves the company everybody reaches their emit and you can't. Rely on single individuals forever. But I think that there are many people at the top you now were aware of all these issues in and I know that we now having grow bus to hold the industry council. It's ninety just too late. And that's it for this week's episode of decrypted. Thanks for listening. If you have a story to share or if you're a tech worker who's concerned about the company workout I'd love to hear from you. You can write to us at decrypted at Bloomberg dot net. Or I'm on Twitter at Pallister Emba. And I'm at Pia get Kerry and please help us spread the word about our show, pry leaving us a rating or review in your favorite podcast app to step aside, was produced by pig at curry and Lindsey crusher will Australia this was Akita. Thank you. Also, to an Vandeweghe, Emily PISA Francesca Levy is head of Bloomberg pocus. We'll see you next week. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit H P, E dot com slash green leak to learn more.

Google Irene Google Hsieh US CEO HP green lake engineer HP New York Times Irene AI Irene nap Bloomberg software engineer Alastair harassment China Andy Rubin
Young Blood and the Pursuit of Eternal Youth

Decrypted

25:05 min | 1 year ago

Young Blood and the Pursuit of Eternal Youth

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service. Visit H P E dot com slash green lake to learn more. Around two thousand and sixteen the venture capitalist. Peter Thiel was at the center of a strange controversy. One of his lieutenants had connected with a startup that was trying to cheat death this company. Ambrosia health was infusing older people with the blood of the young. Bring on the media, frenzy and vampire jokes Ambrosia got so much attention. It was even parodied on the HBO show Silicon Valley in one episode. A teak executive was followed around by a so-called blood boy to siphon has youth. Whenever needed a pick me up pursuit assistant. No, of course, not it's my transfusion socio now. Peter Thiel says he never tried it and didn't invest though, his interest was made public in several news reports at the time. Now, it turns out there is actually a real untold story about this startup that he helped make famous and the more than one hundred people who actually signed up to be a part of Ambrose experiment. I talked to one of them I asked what does it really like to feel a young person's blood pumping through your veins? There's a kind of intensity that comes along with it. You feel kind of a little more alert little straw. After a little more in the present. And there's also a little bit of a buzz that can be too much. Sounds like you're explaining an adrenalin rational. Nice. It's very much like that. This week be extraordinarily rise and fall of embrose a health. This futuristic company pushed the boundaries of science and federal regulations by infusing older people with young blood plasma in a quest to slow aging Ambrosia and its founder Jesse Carson infuriated scientists who said the treatment was unproven and dangerous. But that didn't stop it from experimenting on humans that is until the federal government got involved. I'm Brad stone, and I'm Livia Cavill and you'll listening to decrypted. In two thousand fourteen g c commisson was a medical student at a hospital in Boston in the emergency room, watching a blood transfusion. That's when he head what he described his at Eureka moment. Jessie had studied biology at Princeton and was obsessed with the field of anti-aging. He'd read about how scientists had been able to reverse aging in mice by infusing them with the blood of young mice, and you wanted to himself could this also work for humans JC decided to drop out of his residency program rather than become a doctor he seat out to reverse ageing. Hello. My name's Jesse Carmen. And as you heard on the founder of Umbro or company interested in making you young again. So we all know that were aging. That's introducing his company on stage at a conference called the superhuman summit has put was simple g C believed could slow ageing by infusing older patients with blood from teenagers and people under the age of twenty five. Ambrosia as you might recall is the mythological food that ancient Greeks believed the gods aid to make them live forever. And the treatment on offer was based on those mice studies that Jesse had been so fascinated with since the nineteen fifties. Scientists have been actually stitching together mice to form an organic circulatory system to investigate what happens when younger fluids flow through an older body stitching together, mice it does sound vague and horrifying all at once. Yes. But they literally shave the sides of the mice cut them open. And then so them to one another it's like, reverse engineering Siamese mice twins. This is storage and totally gruesome procedure is called para bios, and it's still used in studies today moldable scientists have found that the older mice became smarter healthier and stronger with the young blood, and some cases, the even became shiny. G c thought he could achieved the same feat and humans with transfusions of blood plasma even though trials in mice often. Don't translate to human results has very first patients were as parents. And they like the treatment. My dad said he felt very energetic putting up storm shelters for the recent hurricane. My mother thought her skin improved. It just thirty one years old juicy was ready to take it a steep further in the summer of two thousand sixteen he launched a clinical trial in the US patients paid eight thousand dollars for later of young blood plasma to be clear. Ambrosia was thankfully, not stitching. Young people to old people like the scientists had done with mice. It was offering basic blood transfusions a life saving treatment that's used everyday in hospitals all over the world. Jesse bought the plasma from blood banks, and because the treatment has already available. He didn't need a sign off from the food and Drug administration. All he had to do say it was an off label application for an existing treatment which the FDA allows, but he did say approval for the clinical trial. From the institute of regenerative and cellular medicines review board. This is an independent group which determines with a study on human subjects is ethical or not the board gave the green light. And it was listed on the federal government's official database of clinical trials. Dr Barbara crutch, cough who signed off on it. See she didn't feel like she hit the right to reject the study while we approve the application, basically because true blood transfusions are considered safe. They're done in millions of times around the world every year, and any physician can order a blood transfusion. It's the practice of medicine. It's not experimental in and of itself. Bobber seed, the bold wants to be sure that patients understood how experimental the procedure was expediently, given the allure of unproven treatment that was claiming could potentially extend your I mean. Check see the the idea. I mean, people people want to live forever they want. They're looking for mortality popular, the vampire movies were. I mean, it kind of just picked up on that sensationalism. He is how the trial worked juicy T stood as patients blood before the infusion and then a month after he was looking for the presence of biomarkers at blood commonly associated with age related diseases like cancer and outside mS Ambrosius trial was unorthodox because Jesse was essentially experimenting on humans who are paying for the privilege. Plus Jesse was making some pretty outlandish claims about what has treatments could do know when people think about aging, they think about their appearance, and I'm pretty happy to report here that we are seeing prevents interference. I've seen it myself. It's kind of dramatic and Furthermore on the medical front. We're seeing prevents in patients with symptoms of Alzheimer's disease Parkinson's diabetes. So that's an interesting idea, and you can get past the gruesome this of using blood. Feel free to find us. Thank you. About one hundred fifty patients did find Ambrosio. We know that one person was as old as ninety two. Until now only one participant has spoken publicly about receiving transfusions from embrose ya. And according to other media, he died of a heart attack last year. But the company put me in touch with the different patient who had been undergoing treatments and for this podcast. He agreed to talk about his experience on the condition of anonymity. We gonna call this patient, Bruce. We heard from him at the start of the episode. He's a businessman in his early six days and eight years ago he was leaked paralyzed from a motorcycle accident. Off the road took me with a hand into a canyon and very rocky carrier in was up there, basically playing pinball with the rocks for a while. So it was it was a pretty violent accident. His doctor told him he would never walk again. But Bruce refused to believe it. You know in Mike case came down to a matter of what I was willing to accept and. You know, was this going to be the way I wanted to live my life and the answer was no he took his medical care into his own hands and started experimenting with alternative treatments. You know, a lot of it is unconventional in. There's goofy little electrical things that come from. Russia. You know, where you have a Russian space program product that, you know, supposedly develops muscles in space. You have electrical stimulation with acupuncture needles that are placed pretty deep in the body. You have fairly painful, very deep tissue massage. The and then, of course, you get into the release of Terek stuff like. The blood transfusions. In two thousand sixteen he came across Ambrosia health and decided to g c himself. I ask you by participate his trials in what was his response. Of course. Good. Three trampled to San Francisco for his first treatment, which was conducted at a regular knockers office. Jesse partnered with four physicians and California Nebraskan Florida who administered the treatment Bruce said he had a few minor tests beforehand, the doctor checked his heart rate and blood pressure. And then Bruce sat back and received the transfusion you notice a change in mmediately, but you know, based on my experience with other transfusions, you always notice a change immediately. I will say though that with this young blood. Least in my experience. The effect is stronger. Eighteen months Bros. Heads three transfusions through him Broza and paid close to twenty thousand dollars. He he keep going back because it made him feel good and it helped him sleep through the night. I asked Bruce with this might just be a placebo effect. Psychologically affecting myself possibly. Did I have benefits? I did does it matter. Whether they were self induced, or, you know, a direct result of the transfusion probably not as long as I had the results that I had. Ambrosius clinical trial, wrapped up in April two thousand eighteen and by then some problems were starting to surface Jesse had been seeking venture capital funding to grow the business and open up new locations and New York takes us and are higher. But no one wanted to Beckham I hope to see in Italy January and he brushed the sof saying that in visas, a usually looking for companies that have the own proprietary technology Puertas, a common blood transfusion can't be pent when we spoke g C was flying high. He CD was gearing up to publish the results from clinical trial, and that they would be impossible for the scientific community to ignore. He claimed patients without Seimas were able to do the finances again, and that others with severe heart disease were at running again, and he was excited because he'd just signed up his cancer patient GCC that is trial results showed that the presence of pre. Cancerous blood cells had been reduced by twenty percent. He claimed that the treatment, quote almost sushi unle extends people's lives. And this was when the alarm bells really started ringing for me. Right. I think it started ringing for a lot of people there federal laws that restrict making those kinds of statements without evidence and more people were starting to hear about these supposed benefits the reaction in the scientific community was almost universally. Outrageous. Specially from the scientists who did the kind of research in mice that Umbro was built on professor Irina convoy have UC Berkeley. It's one of those scientists lending publish our war on blood Shange in mice disciplines them, cold man left. Message in voicemail at war saying how he enjoyed through play Bader end that she wants to pull out what I do something to get an that applies to this message. It goes it was completely out than. Nor and because it seems that you either did not understand our findings or he decided up to misinterpret our findings arena and other scientists started calling on Jesse to publish the data from clinical trial. But he deflected the requests saying the results were still being peer reviewed. Meanwhile, he pushed on with his aggressive marketing DC was saying he could improve people's vision the skin the looks. He even told one journalist that the treatment quote comes pretty close to immortality. But behind the scenes notable of the results were terrific juicy. I told me that there'd been no serious incidents, but Bob crush golf the doctor who green lit the trial seat, at least one patient head an adverse reaction and this Lonzo with what other media had reported as well. Tunes out is a raisin. Why blood transfusions are only used in life or death situations? He is a rain a convoy. Again, the expected side effects that some people want their blood transfusion, Mike experience enough left actual or being -ffected by Papa John's in blood or have delayed in the procreate optimization of their immune systems amend just this past February the federal government got involved. But today, the FDA said it had significant public health concerns about the use of plasma from Deng donors as a means to haul normal agent or medical conditions. The idea of infusing plasma into aging. The agency issued a statement that seemed to be targeted specifically at Jesse it said the plasma transfusions could cause shock infection hives heart disease and lung injury and should not be used for treating the natural process of aging. The statement said there were concerns that some patients were being quote preyed upon by unscrupulous actors touting plasma treatments has cures and remedies. Within hours Ambrosia health announced it would say patient treatments immediately. When I first connected with Jesse before all this he'd reply to my emails within a few hours, but he has an onset any of my phone calls overturned, any of my emails since the FDA warning and faked his an actually made any public statements it will and as for the results from that clinical trial while everyone's still waiting. Business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes they want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP e green lake paper use outcomes on your terms, come to HP, green lake and see the future of IT. Get there at HP dot com slash cream lake. It's been a few weeks since the FDA warning came down the controversy caused a commotion in the world of regenerative medicine. But researchers see it as just one small misguided company that doesn't represent the field at all. In fact, they say that if anything it's been a distraction as to win out tra- premia his name was trista need woods and he runs a company called life. Biosciences? He was afraid that the media scrum. That's erupted around him Brosio could potentially Kosta shadow of other research in this field. Big things. Like, I didn't mean sold guys Don bump, buying blond Germanic humans haven't had national tested. But also with all the. Area self to be kind of these mission from being in animal. Studies we Moscow declined to times each other. You know, that could lead to some very interesting medicines one guy, but we still Vega. I've talked to a lot of epidemics while reporting the story and many of them believe we're on the cusp of major developments anti-aging some of them are even working with young blood plasma transfusions right now. Bob Rae the doctor who begged the Imbros trial seat that the field is moving fold rapidly despite jaycees mistakes, there are many other experiments that are being being done now with the young plasma that have built on the NBA trial, the mistakes and the benefits, for example, we have some double blind Pasea. Bo studies that are being done looking at looking at these more specific elements of what's actually happening. And this was. All this was because of them Beaujolais trial. What we should learn from Umbro's health is that evidence based medicine is the best way to advance the field. Not testimonials not promises of benefit but evidence based medicine three data and their Israel data out. The last November the neurology seem to in Houston started a young plasma. And fusion study with forty patients with Parkinson's and multiple sclerosis. One of the research is told me that after one month the results, look promising, and this isn't the army study of the sort out the the different than the young blood trial in brochures, running because the status half of the subjects in this study would given a placebo. So they could compare results none of the patients paid to participate and the doctors the have been careful not to overstate the potential benefits to the patients. Increasingly what I've heard is that research is seen age is basically accumulated damage to Astles. So if you can find ways to slow down that damage or develop ways to repeal that damage by extinction. You could slow down the Phoenix of aging. So then tune could potentially main that people in living longer billions of dollars being spent on this already alphabets calico division has rates two billion dollars disrupted, death and people like Jeff Bezos. Larry Ellison have also spent money on startups that are trying to hold aging. A lot of these investors are basically looking at death as a problem to be solved. But for the scientists on the ground, or at least the ones I spoke to most of these studies on tailored toward making the richest people in the world live forever or even live until the one hundred fifty. Livia? I'm sure that will be disappointing for for some very wealthy investors who do wanna live longer. But so if it's not about life extension. What is this about this is really about trying to keep people active and healthy Falungong? So we know that we've got our oudlay population is dwarfing a young population. At the moment, we've got underfunded health systems, and this rising problem with going to have a lot of oudlay people who is suffering from diseases, and it's going to be a booth and on health system. So won't these companies are actually trying to shave as to Cape oudlay PayPal active able and working for Longa. And so when you to open to these researches, they don't talk about the lifespan of people they actually refer to it as the health span, I do feel like when attention was paid the claims of embrose, a health and a lot of cases, it was ridiculed. It was kind of seen as a sort of classic moment of. Excess for Silicon Valley. Yeah. Exactly. Did people take it? Seriously do think well, I think that's a really interesting question. I feel like when you talk to people the different people on on the speak trim of regenerative medicine. And I kind of I approached the story and didn't really know a lot about it. So speaking to these racia- chose was surprising in terms of what I could find. But then there are other people you talk to who. Like, oh, no what Ambrose. You was doing wasn't even that bed. It's basic blood transfusion, and they're trying to help people. It was just the way it was marketed that ran them into problems. I don't think before you sort of doing this digging that I that I really understood that it was it was an actual field of science. And I think that if anything what we should learn from this company is how important it is for us to distinguish between what is science, and what is science fiction and the space so Libya us more about Bruce, and what happened to him after he received these transfusions the thing with Bros as that. He's tried all these different alternates. Give treatments and it's really hard to pinpoint. What's what's actually helped him? He he's defied his doctor's predictions any has been able to walk without the aid of crutches. He told me which is pretty incredible given that he was told he'd never walk again. But I need to emphasize that MA agreed here there is no evidence that the steamed from Ambrosia or blood plasma transfusions for Bruce. It's a bit of a shame. Really he feels like JC ova marketed the treatment over marketed, the company and hidden painful, the hype around us, and all the media reports the vampire blood transfusion claims, the the company might still be around, and he may still be able to benefit from it. You must have Speen ole to give their own three transfusions thousands of dollars. Do you feel that it was with it? I don't regret having would probably do it again. So that leaf me with just one last question in just to see the record straight. He you've hit three transfusions with Ambrosia house. And do you feel it will emotional? And that's it for this week's episode of decrypted, thanks for listening. If you've ever tried out an anti aging treatment, add love to hear your story. You can write to us. It decrypted at Bloomberg dot need or I'm on Twitter at live Cavuto amount Brad stone, and please help us spread the word about our new season by leaving a rating or a review wherever you like to. Listen this episode was produced by get Kerry and Lindsay Crowell. As story editor was an Vandeweghe. Thank you also to Emily Busa Akita as well as Liz Smith, Magnus, Henriksson and Tofa full his Francesca. Levy is heat of Bloomberg podcasts. We'll see you next week. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service. Visit H E dot com slash green leak to learn more.

Jesse Bruce HP federal government FDA Umbro Ambrosia Ambrosia health Peter Thiel green lake Livia Cavill Ambrose Silicon Valley Bob Rae Brad stone HBO Mike Parkinson Jesse Carmen
Flying Bike Cooperative Brewery - Seattle, WA

Cascadian Beer Podcast

42:19 min | 1 year ago

Flying Bike Cooperative Brewery - Seattle, WA

"This podcast series is supported by members at Patriot. If you want to support this podcast series had the patriots dot com Ford Slash Cascadia and beer Welcome to the Cascadia Beer. Podcast money's Aaron and I'm Cascadia and I have a background in radio and television broadcasting a music producer and have a passion for beer. I don't consider myself expert beer by any means but I do enjoy and respect the craft and the passion of the Craft Beer Industry. Cascadia is a bio region of the Pacific northwest and North American continent. It's made up of the US states of Washington and Oregon as well as the Canadian province of British Columbia in this podcast series. I profile the unique breweries of Cascadia a region that has a strong presence in the international beer scene. If this is your first time here welcome. I do hope you enjoy this episode and if you do please feel free to share with your friends and be sure to hit subscribe in your favorite podcast APP. It doesn't cost you anything. And you'll never miss an episode in this episode. I'm in Seattle Washington a brewery first of its kind in the state flying by cooperative. Brewery has had their doors open for four years now and they're dedicated to crafting great beer and sourcing. All from their local members sat down with the board president and their brew Master. My Name is Austin Rude and on the board president of flying by cooperative brewery here in Seattle Washington. I'm Kevin Forehand. I am the head. Brewer of flank. Now flying bike now. do need to put an interesting story here. 'cause apart from many reasons why. I'm here I received an email with an audio demo from You Austin. And you're the first brewery ever to just whip out his phone recorded audio thing and email it to me on your on your website. I know I was doing. I was doing you right right now. Thank you for reading dislike. No one do that nobody really. You're the first one I couldn't. It's only taken me. Sixty five episodes only sixty five percents. I'm I'm I'm shocked I Erin. My Name is Austin Rude. I'm a long-time listener of your podcast in the current board president of flying by cooperative brewery. I'm obviously biased. But I think that our Burri in the way that we run it our unique could be an interesting listen for your subscribers. There's a lot more to tell about flying bike in its history and I think we have a compelling story. I hope you'd be interested in sharing this with your listeners. Thanks here we are. We're in Seattle beautiful space downstairs. Whereabouts in town are we. What's what's The neighborhood called. The neighborhood is called Greenwood. We're located about. I would say three miles north of downtown Seattle. We're about a little bit northeast of Green Lake. You know where that is about six minute drive from the freeway there. That's what got me. Yeah that's it sounds about right. We are a bit north of what I would call like the brewery the the Ballard Brewery district. Where there's you know the fourteen the Reuben's the stoops. The I dunno urban families. That's that's in that neighborhood as well but yeah. So we're in Greenwood where we see comprise the Greenwood Brewery District Lynnwood Central Brewing district. Now we like that's all it the actual name right the actual ESI official name which is which by which I mean completely informal and unofficial. So how long has this place been established? We've been open since two thousand Fifteen August. Two Thousand Fifteen. So we're coming up on our fourth anniversary here but the idea of this. Bree came about in two thousand ten. So we've had this kind of cooking for a very long time and listeners of the podcast will know it asks ovary. Oh it sure does. Yeah but there's way more to the story than that. How what is it? Twelve years ten years it was. It was two thousand ten I can. I can just go right into it so I had to go through like I had to go through our archives because I do have to tell the story from time to time but in two thousand ten a man named Jeff Hicks who is member number one in the brewery he put up a WanNa say like a craigslist Latte or something like that Saying that he wanted to get a few folks together to pitch the idea cooperative brewery so this was mid two thousand ten and he held that meeting in front of thirty five people in pitch this idea of having the Disneyland of beer and wanting to raise a million dollars to make this Disneyland of Beer. I think over the next. I don't know seven months until they incorporated in early. Two thousand eleven. I think they may be scaled back to just like a regular craft brewery the model that you've kind of see today They were meeting all over Seattle including the Houndstooth pub which is right across the street so it was kind of interesting that they were there meeting all around this neighborhood but didn't really know that they were going to end up in this space. And in mid two thousand eleven they were approached by a brewery brewery called three skulls. Who IS DOWN IN SOUTH SEATTLE? And they they wanted to sell to the CO OP. By that time. They had incorporated. They have their nine board members and then they vote five to four not to buy this brewery and the very next day. They had their first general meeting at this brewery Who brewed the like their beer for this general meeting so it was a little bit awkward just a little just the little awkward and because of the five to four vote. Jeff who the person who came up with this idea. He quit the board. Quit flying bike so from that time on. Its we've never had really a member number one number two and four. Remember one point two point three. Yeah yeah definitely members members number two number three. That's that's Sean Becker. Who are former board president and Brian who was also on the board he was He's also now co coordinator. He does all of our admin work and so then what happened from there like jeff leaves and then like who who the momentum going what happened right so from two thousand basically from two thousand eleven two thousand I would say the beginning of two thousand fifteen they were going through and getting members. They got to go back in time a little bit. They got the first three hundred members in the spring of two thousand eleven very quickly. Those people are called the thirsty three hundred around here and over the years. They were building building up membership. They were trying to you. Know gain kind of exposure around around town and they do that. In the form of going to beer events they would hold homebrew Homebrew days they would also hold What they would do as they would partner with local breweries. Who are opening. And there'd be like hey do you need some you know you need one hundred folks to come out and be like your soft opening testers for a while. We were doing that. We were going to certain breweries. I think we did that with peddler maybe rooftop but also bears were on the market because we were partnering with breweries to make our baron. That's correct yeah. Yeah so so. Find bike existed as an entity a legal entity if you will before it had a brewery of its own so a lot of the members of the co-op needless to say our home brewers and so early on long before I was involved. Great numbers were getting together and kind of competing and comparing notes and coming up with the great representative Beers of styles and coming up with names and having the brood putting them on the market Brewed by different local breweries. There were probably half a dozen. So that'd be that contract brute or would it be like a nomadic broom or the homer would go. I Win. Save nomadic brewing. Probably the more contract bringing negative connotation. Yeah yeah yeah with our friend. Yes but but but it was still the homers making those recipes right so and we keep that tradition to to the in the brewery today so we every year we hold for homebrew competitions and the winner of those competitions gets their recipe scaled up. And Brood our system so two of the beers that you have in front of you that goes and this doubt were member recipes. This stout is my wife's recipe for coffee stout so looking forward to that. Yeah Yeah and that was an iron bureau competition. It was kind of an open competition. You had to use three of these six ingredients. This is a this is kind of this. Is Eric Liu who won that competition as well? So it was We source a lot of our recipes from our members that something has been kind of its grew operative but The Kevin does. I would say the the bulk of like our beer making right. It's as far as recipe. Yes we could do to acquire member recipes. And these home brewers are very serious. Great brewers I learned a lot from them. And you get told off if you don't make jess right right. It's for those interested in brewing. I'm sure many of your listeners are the challenge of having someone a great number come in who is brewed a five gallon or twelve gallon recipe and scaling up to seven. Barrels is a really frightening and entertaining technical. Challenge right right. I've learned the word non linear but I just wanted to make sure that we understood that we find bike was selling beer in the market occasionally before we had a brewery so lead up to the foundation you know the acquisition of the building and the The brewer brewery and brewer story. Yeah so so we. We finally acquired we acquired this space in late. Two thousand fourteen and we were yeah. We've been searching around all types of neighborhoods. We were searching a pioneer square downtown. In Capitol Hill also can kind of the downtown area in Ballard of course and we found this place we we ended up loving it and we gutted the place and we have pictures up on our website about it but we were building this out and this is this is where I'm going to hand over to Kevin because this is this is the story this is like his his origination story of of the Uri. But we were building it out and it must have been April or May of two thousand fifteen or was it early was earlier than April. I believe okay so Bartsch something like yeah. Yeah and you were at a you're at the ram previously. So I'll just so so before we get to there. I'll ask you my favorite question. Which is how did beer find you? Okay do you have an hour and a half no? I have a shorter versions. I was already I. I started hovering in my late. Twenties in the eighty s fell in love with it. Some friends of mine came over. And said I'M GONNA WE'RE GONNA teach you how to homebrew. And they made a mess in my kitchen and I was kinda resentful because I thought it was presumptuous. And they did make a mess and in the middle of the morning. I heard this. Plop PLOP PLOP went out and I thought fermenting in my kitchen and I've never gotten over it. That's literally I just have never gotten over it and we'll beer was that it was a porter. Okay you know you start with the porters stoute's when you're a home brewer in the eighties. Because it's more forgiving. It was a long time ago. I was logger so wrong. Wrong came out. Great Elsa Okay Well. It was first time lucky. Believe me second. One wasn't so great all right. I stand corrected. It's like golf that first day. You have one day that good and they spend the rest of your life. That's just kind of everything right. Yeah so Kinda. Cut The story short. I used to buy my ingredients Downtown was a liberty multiply was a homebrew shop on Western avenue here in Seattle near the waterfront where I worked and I one day. I went in there to buy supplies. They were doing something in the back and they said Oh. We're building little brewery nowadays. It's unsurprising With that was like. Are you kidding? There were what five or six breweries in the state at that time. Molly big right late. Well Riney well there were. I didn't even count the big guys though Olympia and Ranier late lamented. I'm talking about Thomas. Kemper grants Heart pyramid right. Hook there must be two. I'm forgetting hails. I think might have been going by then and that's about it. Okay some people will you know. Say How could you forget this and this but now where we at seven? That's about it and then there's this so Charles Finkel and founder of merchant Devan who is a beer importer started this berry. Pike Place Down Western Avenue tiny little thing so I just asked them to hire me and they eventually did and I and I learned to brew professionally on the job. I worked there for seven years. That was nineteen ninety. I began bring for them working for them and eventually brewing became the head. Brewer of big time. Brewery Seattle's oldest brew pub in the University District in ninety seven worked there for seven years left the country for a couple of years and came back and worked for my decant. Well who I worked with that. Pike and Started at Elision fields their original head brewer down by the stadiums and then went to work for the Ram Company for another seven years. This is a story. I believe that. Austin is alluding to so I'm meant the Ram which is wonderful job but great company much-maligned but I always defend them a great company that gives their brewers freedom and they have a lot of great brewers making great bear. There need not apologise. Just because it's in the mall doesn't mean it's not a real brewery Real it's next to. It's not in the mall. It's not like a food court. Veep afraid that next to the Orange Julius so I I knew that flying by was looking for a brewer. I didn't know anything about it. I was mildly curious. I was driving home one day and I thought well turnaround because I see where this address is. I'll just go look in. The window. Came down on and looked in the window and these poor people from their perspective they spent all day is a very very long day they were just ready to be done and I come and you know. I'm looking in the window saying well let's let the guy in and I started to talk to them and and It's hard for me not to be interested when I walk into a room. That's has an open trench drain that they're just starting to dig and looking to build. The you know the the slab for the Brew House. How could I not be intrigued? And the more I talked to the more I thought I wanted to be a part of it for many many reasons that turned out to be good reasons and so here we are today now here. We are bright so flying bike. What is flying bike? Focus on generally in terms of Beers. Or is it just kind of a free for all of styles? It's a good question. We have a seven barrel brewery. The emphasis is on involving membership. It's something we have worked on from the beginning. Even before we had this brew house a brewery to make bear on we want a balance of beers available. We have a good rain. You know we have a lot of faucets that we can fill which gives us the ability to brew all kinds of different beers as you can imagine if we have an array of great home. Brewers who want to contribute. We're not going to tell them that. We only do x x x style of beer and I really think that any decent you know tasting room or group Designated should have a wide range especially this day and age. You GotTa Have Your Act together and show that you can do everything. And we're beautifully set up to do everything because we have all this talent to draw. So I mean my specialties ails. I like hops. But you know that's where I start and branch off from there. We have a great assistant brewer. Jesse young who brings tremendous interest enthusiasm and knowledge about brewing? So he's kind of a winner. He's been here for about about a year and he brings a lot of inspiration as well and the the main inspiration from our membership and our customers many of whom most but a third everyday third of the people that come in are members. I've worked for a lot of breweries have worked for a lot of BREWPUBS and made a lot of beer for a lot of people. I really appreciate that our clientele because of the nature of the co-op are tremendously sophisticated and knowledgeable and serious about beer. The kind of people that come in and say what's new kind of people come in and say a goza wonderful. Thank you for doing that. I don't have to explain what it is because they know. How many brewpubs are there? Where most people who walk in nowhere to go so that's just one example so as far as what we're emphasizing. What we're trying to we're trying do a wide range of things well and to continue to expand that explore variations on establish styles. And maybe even this stablishment of some to that then. Do you have like a core lineup of beers or is that just really just constantly changing we do have well? Our core is our rainmaker. Epa which is our house Ip beyond that we have mostly member recipes that have become sort of the old standbys that come and go but they reappear often so we'll have for instance the stout that we discussed and Austin's wife's great humber. Austin is great homebrew as well they. Kinda. I wonder what those discussions at home. It's a coffee mug. Stout that comes and goes the old standby their several others I could name one of our sort of perennial a competition. Winning members is Eric Bloom who has contributed a great a great Kohlschreiber P. And now and did the goza recipe that I was just thinking about and some others the porter thank you so the port is actually a great example. The porter we gold for for that porter so it was it was we were. I think that was last summer like we had. We got two medals and one was for a brand that you did and the other was the the other was the porter the Washington bureau words so briefly The rainmakers always there. There are sort of solid Homebrew member recipes. That come and go and then there's sort of styles that sometimes I take over like a number. You should always have something. That's like an amber. So I sort of take charge of that at this point until we ever amber competition and they'll get some kind of solid recipe from a member and that'll take doing pretty good on that. Yeah Yeah I've I've felt like a lot of the the numbers that you've done the numbers and Browns that you've done have been great. I Agree I. I've really enjoyed both of those especially the browns once I discovered that British Brown Malta. I can't leave alone that you just put the bag of that in there and you're half your works right so Austin opening them like as he already had quite a few members bright. So how was the reception from the local community? Then I think that we like most. I'll have to caveat like I am member number sixteen sixty three so I got involved actually pretty late in the game. I wasn't I wasn't here for opening said this is all this kind of like you know. Here's the new guy. I am the new guy right but I think that we had tremendous amount of of interests. Because we're like the first cooper in Washington West Coast still in still in the Pacific northwest right now and so. I think the people were coming down and try to figure out what we were about. And I don't know if you can speak to the We had a couple of soft openings. We had like an opening and like May of two thousand fifteen. I believe the thing that you had a tour of the Peru House but we had fifteen hundred members even before we opened the doors so I think there was. I think the people really wanted to see what was going on that one. I've signed up. Yeah Yeah I WANNA see this. You know I want to see this open everything that I've I've seen and heard about that has been you know we we were. There was a lot of interest from everybody. The already established members and in the Greater Brin community we're interested in new brewery and we were co-op and even established brewers and appreciative of crap. You're just very interested in the notion of the call up but I think well I mean also that it's your place. I think it's again. A Kevin is a veteran right. He's he's been doing this since. Nineteen Ninety and one of the things that I think that we really benefit from his his connections his friend. Dick can't well for instance like he calls up to Cantwell for. I'm blown away by the by the fact that says so nonchalantly and but it is I mean. That's that's really the case with with Kevin. He has all of these connections around town. All of these really just You know I wouldn't say old. Like ancient connections just like you know. Decades these connections with with other brewers in town and I. We are so lucky to have that by proxy. I I am one of the old guys is what I think Austin is trying not to say and it does help because as I said when I started than weren't that many of us and the bring community around here as not that different from a lot of other communities. We've really stuck together. We support each other so you end up knowing a lot of people and they help you and we help each other so I I would say that I have been able to bring that. So where does flying by go from here really? I think. That's that's a really good question. Because I think that the infancy of your brewery. I think most brewers go through this right. There's a lot of interest the first couple of years. And then there's the the dropoff your three and I think that the bike has really as a as a I guess. Let me back up. I think that we're trying to we're trying to prove that the CO op model for brewery is something that is viable and can exist so for us to be weird like knocking on the door of of of being profitable and I think for business. It's been around three plus years. I think we're kind of right on target as far as it goes. We don't have any loans to service kind of were kind of free of all of those things and I think it's really right now about spreading our message. I think that when I have poured a festivals for for flying by people don't realize that this that we exist we kind of were were in Greenwood and we're not surrounded by the Burris just like you know like the burry. The burris down in in Ballard. But I think that people finding out about this place in this place exists and the sense of community. I think that we're trying to foster here at fine bike. I think we're just starting to tap into that and I certainly think that we're starting to happen to this year. I mean our sales have been our sales have been great in in two thousand nineteen and think that we're getting over that Hump. You know that kind of sophomore slump that that a lot of businesses. A lot of breweries go through in their first few years of operation. So I'm really excited about what we're what we're doing here. And the trajectory of what were what we're GONNA do in the future right so I mean Kevin did bring up a good point out because I'm just curious Do you and your wife like hide. Your sparks temperatures. You know so you don't share that information there. Is there that kind of homebrew competitiveness? Going in there she is. She is very selective about the beers that she chooses to brew. And I think Kevin is born the brunt of some of that like he's like hard core homebrew coming in as. Oh it's fine. Whatever you say is like she's not like that no she's you know she. She's when she won. I think that she she's very particular about about the ingredients that went into when her beers are great. Yeah so and she has some very. She has some very specific ideas on what she likes. I love that about her like that. She's willing to she. She she comes in here and like talk to Kevin and like and she doesn't apologize for what she likes at home. I brew everything you know. I mean I say everything. I don't have any specific style. It's kind of what I'm feeling what I think that we should do. But she's she's very specific about the about the things that she says. Well I did have four. And there's now three years in front of me So kind of walk through this painting a a word picture here so this first beer. What was this Kevin and it was delicious as a finished it. But that's the German lager with Bavarian lager strain and When I brewed at the batch before this we did do a cask version of it which we thought of as a Keller Slash Zwickel Beer for the cask festival here in Seattle which is a yearly thing. So I call it as wickel beer there may be some of your listeners to the are objecting that I'm misusing the word but my research tells me it's just unfiltered lagers sometimes poured a little young. So I'm just GonNa take it especially since I'm so proud of having thought of the name. Flying Bikes wickel for so. It's too good a name to apologize for having misnamed style so it's our bikes fine bikes vehicle. It's a light German lager essentially. And you're saying that eastern is really rapid like an shorter friendly. I have found like her. I gotta use that word for to describe. Jason is huge user friendly. Yeah and you know. It's hard to do loggers in a log take time and often in a little brewery a craft brewery where you're kind of on a scheduled trying to make beer in quantity. There's no place to put it in the corner and leave it alone for two months so you need your yeast to be your friend. Yep So the second one here Austin. How would you describe that color I would describe? The color is juicy. I would say I mean. That's that's that's really what I what I see when I look at that at that. Beer saw that a couple of nights ago when I was here and the hazy was it was I for some reason he almost was easier than than it is now but I mean it's easy but it's not like that thick like orange juice carton like bright yellow kind of thing that some Hazy Beers are. There's there's a bit of depth to it and then what beer is this? This is the willow. We've been brewing. What we've kind of settled on and I don't know if this will continue and just like just like Kevin says it's Every time someone comes in here we have something new on top. And I've loved that about this brewery right now. We've kind of settled on. A bigger hazy. Something in the you know six seven percent range and then kind of a lower alcohol hazy in the in the four to five percent range. So this is our our bigger hazy. I would say and Jesse's been been really Instrumental in helping US kind of up. Are Hazy Game. I would yes he has. And we've we've worked a lot in heyzer the thing. Unlike many brewers I do not object to the style. I think they're delicious drink. I love brewing them. They're becoming more refined now right like I think I think it was so new that nobody quite knew how to really dial it is. I think it's still is. That way is not dialed in. And you're exactly right in here. We've kind of established away practically speaking to be able to brew these beers in this brewery. And we've kind of evolved our own take on Which is what some other people are doing. Now it's a little more bitterness going on little drier. Not Quite as sort of you know some of the moving away from the juicy name into the hazy name so it's it's not necessarily so thick and sweet and juicy that you love it. It's of course incredibly delicious. But when you're halfway through that pint you kind of wonder if you want to have another one so it's just a little bit drier and and a lot of people are moving that way and so we have As US and said we've settled into practice of having to Hayes is available when quite low alcohol. Which I I WANNA pursue this. I love the idea of hazy session. I would love to get. It's now we're down flirting at five. Even into the high fours low force as percentage. I'd like to get into the threes. I was just thinking about this the other day. Why not I mean that does not need alcohol and particularly that sounds like perfect barbecue. Beer just exactly now. You don't have to worry about a low alcohol beer being too thin in body. Now when it's a hazy you just loaded up on so I'm getting a little bit. You know now going on my nerdy Nicole. I'm sure there's some that are listening to appreciate this right good and then we kinda countered that by having a more or less six point. Eight percent hazy. That's the one. We'll play with with the hops a lot. The the our little session. He Hazy. It's mostly El Dorado and mosaic. Right now the next one here you both of you been talking this up Mike. Nothing goes this is so this is a a member winning beer. That knows already. I'm like yes please. Yeah so it has so so we had a competition where you had to use six ingredients and this was a member competition last fall. And I think eric us no was a to know who's three. I think Eric. Four of the ingredients in this. So it contains. Sage contains Blackberry various sage and Korean. Yeah So he put together. I think his he had a great recipe. He's a great brewer. And I think the I think that goes as special arrived just in time. I think for something. That's spruce tips where you know you're harvesting spruce tips in a late. April that kind of thing to have something like this. That's refreshing. It's Nice for summer. I'm really looking forward to having it all summer in like the nose on it. It's like I get this bruce tips but then that the kind of comes in after that which is very interesting so this is one of those things where I get. My eyes get really white. You know it's like here. It is Kevin. Here's a winning recipe. All you gotTa do is brew a blackberry spruce tip sage coriander kettle Sour Goza. Could you do that right away please? So with incredible. Help of Jesse and of course. Eric Bloom Brewer. Who came into the winning brewer and he came in and helped us. It's not as I winning recipe. We have a kind of a partnership going at this point. We pulled it off and boy. It was a long process of figuring out how to do all of these things spruce tips. Just but that's that's the scale problem right. It is very much a scaling problem. But it's also where do you get five pounds of of fresh spruce steps and Just one word oetzi right and the magic warehouse all right finally coming to the last one here on my little flight Your wife's cost out so so the coffee stout and I'm going off the you know the the one that she won with but It's made with local copy from from broadcast coffee and local grain. So we buy for at least for this recipe. I don't know if I don't know the Greenville on some of these other ones but the green bill comes from schedule Valet Malting so our guys up there. Yeah as a homebrew. I personally love using their their malt. But and that's why this was kind of chosen it was kind of we kinda had some in mind but So the whole the whole coffee recipe the whole coffee. Stout recipe was really made to to sort of have this. Bright Coffee Bows off with a lot of the ROASTI. That's happening in the stout and the Anna lactose that you have to add it was. It was a fun. It was a it was fun. Beard Abreu and. It's I think it's actually extremely versatile you know. They've added chocolate over the years. They put it on Nitro. They've done it without the coffee and just in the milk stout I've done versions where you goose up the Green Bill and you make an imperial version of it. I'm sure you could add chocolate or I don't know orange or lose orange and this would be nice. Yeah I mean it's it's it's a special recipe they Put this in Bourbon Barrels. And we've we've done a really special like barrel each version of it so I think it's IT'S I. I love this beard. I love it and a lot of our own potter for a lot of our members due to my wife is not in the brewery you know not on a weekly basis not certainly as much as I am but they will come and track her down and tell her how good this. This beer is so it's she sort of you know. She started local celebrity. It's a very sturdy recipe and we have played multiple variations on it. None of them without your wife's explicit permission get that on record if somebody wants to become a member here how do they how do they do that? It's actually quite easy a you. You can sign up through our website. We have two membership options. We have a lifetime membership which two hundred dollars and it gets you kind of a variety of benefits Two dollars off growly fills dollar. Crawler fills two dollars off pints in the in the Burri we have these exclusive member events tasting events around the brewery you can buy grain for for discounted we were You know we came from. Home brewers so a lot of the discounts are kind of homebrew a friendly kind of back to the community it is. We also have happy are pints every day until seven o'clock we we like to think it's more than just a club. You do get a lot with your with your two hundred dollars so that and that's lifetime that's not a yearly thing. We also have a membership adjoining membership program that you can pay fifty dollars and then pay your membership in installments over you know however you can afford it until you get up to the two hundred dollars and then you're you're full member so you can sign up through our website flying bike dot coop or you can sign up through the bar downstairs. That's also another. That's also another way but most of our membership comes from our website. Sweet Kevin won't be some advice that you give homers to make better beer like just a couple simple tips. They're yeah I don't think anything I have to say would be a surprise to homebrew that difficulties at home have to do with temperature control of fermentation adequate yeast pitching and oxygenating. That's like one two and three and when you have a homebrew and and it's not quite right often. It comes down to one of those things so get a good east pitch. Whether you do it yourself. Don't be afraid to visit your local brewery. Be Nice to them. Don't bother them. Contact them ahead of time. You might get to the point you bring in a little Sanitize Jar and get perfect to pine pitch and your problems are over as far as that concerns. That's concerned oxygen is also difficult. I mean picking up your car boy shaking it actually does work but there You know things that you can acquire that allow you to Inject oxygen or filtered air into your work as you're transferring into your familiar and the other is control of that for mutation temperature. It's you know. I have the advantage of glycol. Jacket had tanks to wonderful thing to have as a brewer I just set the temperature of my fermentation and go home boy. It'd be great if you could do that at home. And there are certain tricks and what I did as a home for us to just pick up my car and I put it in a big rubbermaid container which I filled with water and I would control the temperature of that water which you could do by heating or cooling it both of which can be done so those three things. If you're looking to take the next step do those three. If somebody was wanting to open up a brewery for themselves what would be some advice he could give don't Mary. I'm sorry up. Be Prepared Know who your customers are going to be. Get a business plan be realistic. This is the business side of it which is not my side of it. I'M GONNA ask knows more but I will say that because I've known so many of my friends who have done this What happens. Is You underestimate by a third to half how much money you're going to need. So that your two thirds of the way there but you run out of money and that's a failure or you have too much confidence that you're going to be able to maintain your time line and inevitably there will be a delay. It's often a year and that's a really long time. You're frustrated you're doubting yourself when you're bleeding money you can't you make money off of it. Hang Moore. Who's not brewing. You're paying all kinds of things so and it happens over and over and over again take it seriously. You know that's the business side of it. It's not all fun. Just prepare anything to add there. Yeah no I would say I mean the old adage is like double double the amount that you that you budgeted and double the time or triple the time that it takes we open. From the time we signed the lease we opened. It was eight months and I think that that was quite quite spectacular. Yeah man we had but we had one hundred people from from which to to build from build out this brewery so I mean we don't. That's what flying bike is is so blessed with is the fact that we have so many members like something goes wrong in the brewery you know when we had the when the when we had the whole washer situation they came over and fixed it right. You know we we. We asked our trusted members and they came over and fix that. So it's great to have connections people who can do that sort of thing people who are accountants a CPA by day in your lawyers like your three so if you have you have to have those people like in your back pocket you have to have friends or people who really know that because ninety five percent of it's not brewing really right. It is doing paperwork paying taxes working with music. Licensing talking to your it has nothing to do with with operating like what you say. You're is the easy part ear isn't I'm not gonNA say the busy part because the beer is is to do it on a seven barrel system and do it consistently is very difficult. I think that there are a lot of breweries that have maybe one or two great beers and you know they try to do like the whole gamut like we do and you know they'll never fail at got a couple of those of those styles but I think really having all those those things in place but I think on the money side people talk about like having your your budget to build out. But I think that being like being fully capitalized and having having enough runway to survive the first two or three years. And maybe you're not profitable. That's I think where. We're we're brewers brewers in general have issues and that can be CR- like I came from kind of a restaurant accounting background. But I think that if you can get into a place that has has low overhead low rent. You're going to like six percent of whatever your projected sales are somewhere in that neighborhood. You're going to be doing good or you. At least have the shot at being good so but have enough money so that you can operate in in the red for a few years before you know you really get your footing within the community unless you're the only game in town and then you can. You can go right ahead and start making money but It takes a while to get a following and you know even here we have a great taproom and we have a lot of street presence in. I think it's taken us. You know three years to get going and it looks like it's been fairly redevelop to in the neighborhood and it's going to be even more redeveloped we're going to have you know a bunch of apartments that are going to be rising up around us to think about. This place is like the local watering hole. we'd like to think of ourselves as the cheers of Seattle and to have that kind of community space where people can gather and people can have this be. The third place is is really important and I think that people are going to gravitate towards this in the future. So it's it's just sticking around and making it tomorrow gentlemen. Thank you both so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much. It's been fun Erin. I can't think Austin and Kevin enough time do appreciate it guys and the beers were absolutely delicious. And I'm really going to have to try and schedule some time to regularly be in Seattle and just see all the great beers rotating through a can't wait to go back and visit. This episode was made possible by supporters on Patriots of this podcast. If you WANNA support you can for as little as a dollar an episode just had the Patriot Dot com forward slash. Cascadia in beer. If you haven't already please share your subscribe to the podcast and your favorite podcast APP. And if you follow us on social media you can you can go to facebook dot com forward slash Cascadia and beer or on twitter at Cascadia and beer and on Instagram Cascadia and beer podcast for more information about the breweries. Or you know listen to some previous episodes of the podcast. You can head of the website cascadia dot beer. Thank you so much for your time for listening today. I really do appreciate it until next time. Remember support your local.

Kevin Forehand Seattle Brewers brewers Austin Jesse young president Ballard Brewery Greenwood US You Austin Greenwood Brewery Burri Pacific Green Lake Austin Austin Rude Washington Oregon Ballard
The App Thats Helping Gay Couples Have Kids in China

Decrypted

26:08 min | 1 year ago

The App Thats Helping Gay Couples Have Kids in China

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service. Visit H P E dot com slash green lake to learn more. A few weeks ago? I took a trip to the eastern side of Beijing to an area code Chalayan. This part of the city is full of skate shops, fashion boutiques and buildings under construction. Of course, there's always construction in Beijing. I was there to visit the office of blue. It'd the hugely popular social network for gay men and to meet the founded gung lay in person his a bit surprising. He's forty-one. He's gonna close cropped haircut wearing a Nike branded just do a t shirt and dark navy blue sweatpants. He really does not look like tech, bro or an LGBT icon if anything he reminds me a bit of my suburban uncle Gungwe is probably the most famous gay man in China now. But not that long ago, he wasn't openly gay. He was a police officer married to a woman. So yes, gung LA is definitely surprising in China, gay rights, nonexistent and unappreciative Xi Jinping. There's been a crackdown. On on civil society, public expression and human rights in general, even so blue has been able to thrive by tapping the LGBT community as a market in just a few years blue has attracted forty million users that rivals grinder one of the earliest, gay, dating, apps and blue is preparing to IPO police officer says offer them vehicle to soccer two dollars. Euboea? Sure when I sat down with gung lay he told me that the biggest difference between blood and other companies is its ideals and beliefs he wants to showcase Chinese company diligently serving the LGBT community showing that they can do things with value and philanthropy, gung less latest. Venture puts this philosophy to the test. It's called blue baby. A service to help gay men who wanted to have babies by Saragan overseas. Surrogacy is technically illegal in China. But there's growing demand for it. Anyway, you can see that in places where it is legal like, California where more and more straight Chinese couples of gone for surrogacy. Blue now wants to help its clients do the same thing. Running almost any business in China requires navigating a lot of uncertainty for blue d-, the risk is even more acute if it wants to grow. It's got to push the frontiers of what's possible and acceptable for the LGBT community in China, which still faces a lot of stigma and prejudice China is a country where there's no gay marriage and a gay couple content opt to child so blue is testing, the government's tolerance. But something quite new gay families. I'm peac. I'd Cari armed David Ramle, and I'm doing Lawrence. You're listening to decrypted. For most of his life gung lo was known as Ma Bali. He was a veteran. Police officer in Hobe province, which is outside Beijing, and he was married to a woman, but online he was someone else. He used the alias gung LA to live a parallel life as a gay man and an internet entrepreneur he'd started a website called Dan land, which became an important hub for the LGBT community in China, and he juggled these two careers for more than a decade rising through the ranks of the police as Ma Bali whilst expanding the website as done LA. And then in two thousand twelve his police superiors discovered what he'd been doing? Who is making the ball. The whole one g we enter major dollars corner. Our light our while he talked to me about what a difficult period that was he said that when local media outed him as the developer of the service. He was forced to choose between shutting it down or leaving the force. He chose the latter horrifying his parents in a country where stable government jobs, a highly prized things got even worse when they checked out his business, and they realized he was gay. He said the shock made his mother so ill he had to return home and look after her, of course, this was also the end of his marriage despite all that gung LA doubled down on his online venture and threw himself into launching blue d- an app for the Chinese gay community. It was late two thousand twelve like other dating apps. Blew us. Jill location to help man. Find dates and connect with FRANZ gung. Timing was good after all this was the smartphone. Boom when mobile use and access to the internet was explode. Outing and investors were eager to find the next ten cent, or by do one of those investors was David Chow at the firm DCM he'd spotted blue in two thousand fourteen DCM had already backed other Chinese social media companies and David thought the LGBT community was a huge potential market and the United States about one out of ten people or ten percent are LGBT members. And of course, in China that would imply if it gets through the US levels in the future that would imply a one hundred and forty million people will so, you know, the LGBT market in China in the future could be larger than the entire population of Japan nowhere near that many people identify themselves openly as gay in China now, and it's obviously hard to know or measure, what percentage of any population is gay or is openly gay or might be gay. But investors like David also see extra potential enga- consumers in China at least because they tend to have more spending power than the average in part because they don't have children. That's the promise of the so-called pink economy. We expect it to grow into high single digits over the next five to ten years and enhance you know, you have a large enough community too. Support an entire economy of its own that potential is starting to become a reality and blue has played a big role. It's most popular function is video broadcasts where uses livestream to their followers who can send virtual gifts and money. Blue gets a cut of these virtual payments, and it also runs regular ads in the app with millions of people signing up the gay community has become more visible in China. There is a growing movement, and they're more more spaces where people can can be out in China. That's Darius longer Reno. A senior fellow at the Paul tied China center part of your law school. There is studies LGBT issues and legal reform in China. And I wanted to talk to him about how blue fits into the broader context of gay rights, even if they're from remote places places in the countryside to your cities were ten fifteen years ago, really hard to find your community, but through blue it's much easier now, so there's a a. Growing connected community that has higher visibility in society, and even advocacy organizations that are starting to advocate for the community and the movement. As optimistic as that sounds that off still a lot of risks involved for anyone and any business associated with the G BT community blue is carving out a market that hasn't existed in the post at least, partly because of intense stigma around being gay in China. There are no explicit legal protections against discrimination based on sexual orientation, and there's also no gay marriage and no civil partnership for same sex couples and the government has become less tolerant of demands for civil rights of any kind in recent years. I don't think in many advocates in China jumping. The government is targetting LGBT issues per se, but they're wary of any form of organization where people are finding each other and trying to create movements. Someone who's experienced. This personally is Ryan law. He lives in Guangzhou in southern China and works for an NGO focused on LGBT health. I met him recently in New York. He described what the atmosphere is like right now, the beginning of twenty seventeen the whole. Synthesis. That not only would you be deeper the whole civil society situation, you know, a whole lot worse in China. And so the kind of director. Impact of that is, you know, a lot of events like openly gathering events, we cannot do a lot of our even sokaia shutdown. Why why would your events get shut down because any kind of group event gets shut down. You know, they just don't want you to kind of get together. And try to come up with something that, you know, true, advocate or do things together. I think but especially I would you be things right now. I think because Ryan says he's still sees room to move things forward. But he and his colleagues have been getting more visits from the police and are more careful now about how they communicate and what they do in public like ver-very ver-very seriously for even you know, we stopped talking things on Wade shared. We all moved to seek. No, even if only a little bit sensitive away, go to jail. Yeah. Just this kind of thing. And also, you know, like our events our poster we don't put our logo anymore because we put our logo then. It will shot down. It's not always easy to predict where the line is that you shouldn't cross for example, a dating app for lesbians called rela got shut down in two thousand seventeen over an event in Shanghai. I you have to know that Shanghai has a weekly wedding market in a park where parents come to mingle and find husbands and wives for this single adult. Children rela helped organize a group of parents whose children at gay but a few days off to they went to the wedding market. The app got shut down it disappeared from apps stores and from social media, although it has since relaunched Darius. The Yale researcher says that initially the government was just as wary of blue d-, but gung law was a former civil servant, and he knows how efficient on works in China. He's been very smart about smoothing the way politically for his business. Had successfully sold itself as like a up and coming tech darling to to the government example of indigenous shines innovation. I it's an example of success for Chinese enterprise pollute is an exceptional in this respect all large companies in China need to stay on the government's good side. So it's normal for companies to foster relationships with officials. But blue has been a specially assiduously courting the government in part by stepping lightly and avoiding public scrums, for example, in two thousand sixteen the government issued rules that banned depictions of so-called abnormal sexual behavior on Chinese television, which included homosexuality. The next year a government affiliated group issued similar rules for online content. Some major platforms reacted by banning gay themed content altogether, causing uproar in the LGBT community instead of commenting publicly gun law got in touch privately with one of the officials responsible that ficials said he'd just taken old rules for TV and applied them online gung framed as a business issue. He suggested that next time there should be more opportunity for public input in January of this year. The same group issued another list of banned subjects this time for short video platforms. The list includes foot fetishes and criticism of the Chinese communist party. But it doesn't include explode. Shit. Mention of homosexuality gung thanked the official privately and counts it as a win for dialog over confrontation. Title whole nigger. Fired whole we she said that he really believes dialogue consoled problems, and that the government is supportive of his company because it knows blue ID is doing things. Well, he said that even though there are some officials who aren't very tolerant of the gay community overall. He said the government is well intentioned that right? There is a good example of gun laws business savvy, blues market may depend on pushing social boundaries but gun laws. Focus is definitely on business. Not on advocacy and not on challenging the government. In fact, blue just become an essential partner for the government in its public health outreach, particularly for HIV and aids programs, and this strategy has worked at least for now blue has been growing rapidly since two thousand twelve and today, it's got forty million total us us about sixty percent of those are in China and the rest are outside China, mainly in countries where there's a big Chinese speaking population. The blue investor. David Chow says the company is planning to diversify into new services that cater to LGBT consumers and blue baby is the first the idea came from Ganga's own life because about four years ago. He started looking seriously at becoming a father. He says he always liked kids and thought they were cute. But then he hit thirty five. He started to envy other people when he saw them with their children. He wanted one of his own. There was a lot to figure out like where it's even legal to have a child by surrogate. He also thought about what life might be like for his child is the child of a gay man in China. Allergy hold on highly you need to. Thought about how the child might feel a lot of pressure or experience prejudice or feel insecure unsafe. He said the child might feel that other people have mothers. But that he didn't. In fact, he told me a story about how not long ago while they were all at home together. His son cold out for mother that he just didn't know eventually gun law decided to go to California for surrogacy. He was hoping for twins. But only one baby came to term delivers Email title. Ginny. See Gongloe spent a month in LA two weeks before the birth and to afterwards. He said the feeling of fatherhood never really hit him until he held his son in his arms. It was then on that. He really felt the rising combination of love and responsibility. Cung son now lives outside the city with his grandparents and his other dad gun laws boyfriend, mostly because the air quality and the environment is better. They're gonna face times with his son. And of course, gets lots of photos and updates about what he's doing like, lots of parents. He thinks his son is extremely smart and says, maybe he'll go to school in the US one day. Going Lewis's surrogacy is something really positive. It's transformed his life and light and some of the pressures of being gay in China. It's also part of the reason he decided to start blue baby. Business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes they want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP green lake pay per use outcomes on your terms, come to HP, green lake and see the future of IT. Get there at HP dot com slash green lake. In december. I went to L A to visit HRC fertility. It's one of the clinics that blue partners within California has a refined beige reception area, and they get a lot of Chinese clients, which you can tell because there's so much as being spoken, maybe more Chinese than English. I was there to meet a man named Russell who'd flown in from China to deposit semen, which is the first step in having a baby by surrogate. From IVA partner, I'm out to every blocks. Matt Russell isn't one of blue babies clients, but he's just the sort of person gun LA is hoping to serve he's thirty seven and works in marketing for an international company. He also has his own marketing business on the side Russell's parents still live in the small rural town where he grew up. And he says it's becoming an issue that they don't know. He's gay. They don't understand why he's not settling down and starting a family. Remember, the marriage market in Shanghai. We talked about. Swim in the stronger from the family than just. Just recently. I think maybe a good idea to have a baby. And also, I personally I like babies too. So why not? So also, the reason I'm going to have a baby. Well, then because they have a lot of pressure. They won't get married. So I'm thinking, maybe I can just skip the stand like skip marriage just to. That much easier for me. The pats becoming a gay parent is full of hurdles for starters, it's incredibly expensive. Russell is budgeting two hundred thousand dollars for the process, and that's about how much unless spent as well Russell, I looked into adoption but found it would be impossible for him as a single game in China. He has friends who've had babies by surrogate in Thailand, which would be cheaper, but it's legal there. So after doing some research Russell founded agency called Los Angeles surrogacy for Russell, the next steps to find an egg donor and a Saric it. But it will probably take another year before he becomes a father. Donor. Do you know what you're looking for? When you want a more. Putting more attention to the paying more attention to the egg at the moment. I haven't thought about the next step. So I wanna have maybe he's always already Stargate, veggies, mixed and out go dark hair because. Egg donors that longer. I'm sure that very likely that make baby is going to be like blonde, then you know, in the future. I have this long kid on the street. They will say, where's the mother? It's so obvious that he does his. It's not my baby baby wants to make surrogacy easier and safer for the LGBT community steering clients to places where surrogacy is legal and long like California employees connect clients with trusted providers and shepherd them through each step. Choosing an egg donor choosing a surrogate drawing up legal contracts. There are three employees in Los Angeles who pick up clients at the airport book hotels and help get them around the city blue baby was launched less than two years ago. So it can't count any actual bits yet. Although some of its clients a pregnant or rather the surrogate pregnant blue baby is also a test of how blue diversify its business into products and services that aren't necessarily online for a mobile app, and an online company surrogacy is a very high touch business IP, we'll talk to you won't be said that in comparison to the internet side of his company Sargus is actually a slow business. It's. Service industry, but he wanted to do it anyway because he thinks it can help people. And because it's a happy thing. Even in saying that though it will turn a profit eventually when David sat down with gung LA it was around the Chinese New Year. And he talked a lot about what's spurring gay men from China to turn to surrogacy. Died. To my help. The Chinese New Year means heading home to visit family and gung says it brings out all the pressures of being gay purchase that parents and relatives feel as well. When an adult child comes home on married with no kids, it's hard for parents to face their friends to he says, bringing home his son the next generation of the family has repaid the heartache and the difficulties that his being gay and coming out has meant for them. A lot of people I spoke to including academics. And doctors as well. As intended parents themselves said the same thing having a child makes it easier for these men to come out to their families. I asked Russell whether this was part of his plan to do you think? Once you have a parents do come out. I'm not going to tell them. Maybe my kid. We'll tell them when he or she grew up. Russell is hoping for a girl after this long process. And he anticipates lots of challenges to raising his child he thinks he might have to send her to an expensive international school because she'll be a US citizen and technically a foreigner in China. Russell isn't sure if he'll be able to get her the documents and permits needed to attend a regular Chinese school. He wonders how future classmates may react to her. An issue will resent him for not being a normal dad in a traditional family. Your child yet sent really Bill just. Know what your family is like that's their family. They'll just accept it. Because the kid is going to face a lot of difficulties in school and because it's not normal family. He's not going to be treated equally as other kids. I know it's not going to be easy because our society is not ready for this kind of especially if we are gay couples the plan eventually is for blue to address this kind of worry with things like social kids groups on the app where children of LGBT parents can bond free from the stigma. They might face for having a non traditional family. Russell is also consent that at any moment. The Chinese government could decide it's not going to look the other way anymore. You don't know what they're gonna do? Maybe one day. They were just say, okay. We have to stop this. You cannot do babies in China. You cannot promote it. When we asked Dunga and David Chow about that kind of risk. Whether it's a crackdown on surrogacy or the gay community, more broadly. They both said they aren't worried and Blute certainly seems to be thriving its domestic business has turned to profit for the last two years and gun laws. Now, planning an IPO. So June on the points about Blue's plans to to go public. Did you get the sense that any part of those plans was related to putting the company on a sure footing and insulated from risk coming from the government, not necessarily mean if the government wants to crack down in China, they will. But one reason they may not is demographics. China's population is aging really rapidly. And having spent a long time trying to limit the population. I think the government is now interested in boosting the birth rate. And even if these babies are born by surrogate, they're still babies, they're still boosting the birth rate. Given how expensive this procedure is? I wonder how many babies this? You know, this avenue would actually yield. That's true. I mean, it does seem incredibly expensive and complicated. You know with the currency controls in China and stuff like that. But some of the fertility experts that I talked to who have been to China on these kind of education will tours that blue has put on. To talk to gay men who are considering surrogacy said the often their parents are with them, and this is such a strong. It's it's such a strong imperative to have children in China that these parents are just totally committed. They're going to chip in and help make it happen for their sons. Well, that was one of the big revelations for me working with you on the story. I had no idea that it would help parents deal with that children's sexuality if they had a grandchild in the picture. Yeah. I mean, I think it sort of just allows them to ignore it. I mean who cares about their children's sexuality when they have a grandchild. Beijing. Yeah. So did you meet any blue babies clients, they wouldn't make any of their clients available. I mean, they said basically, they were all really worried about privacy. And I mean, it's still not something that's really accepted in China. It's not. Seen as normal. Right. Even even just surrogacy by straight people. Right. So I think there's a lot of concerns around that. I was able to talk to a surrogate who's working with a blue baby client, and she's about to give birth any day now. And that was cool. I mean, it was kind of. So we're going to have a blue baby. The first blue baby any day now. And that's it for this week's episode of decrypted. Thanks for listening. We want to hear from you. So you can find me on Twitter at Doon Lawrence. And I'm at at Cari, and please help us spread the word about on new season. You can leave us a rating and a review wherever you like to. Listen this episode was produced by get curry and Lindsey credible. Our story editor was Emily abuse. Oh, thanks, also to an Vander may Akihito, and Brad stone Francesca. Levy is head of Bloomberg podcasts. We'll see you next week. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service. Visit H P E dot com slash green lake to learn more.

China government California LA FRANZ gung HP Beijing Matt Russell green lake United States Chinese gay community David Chow officer Nike Cari Shanghai David Darius
Why Silicon Valley Is Hiring Bird Experts

Decrypted

27:32 min | 1 year ago

Why Silicon Valley Is Hiring Bird Experts

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit H P, E dot com slash green lake. To learn more. A few years ago around the time of Twitter's IPO. I noticed what I thought was an odd coincidence. It's chief engineer had studied birds specifically he'd studied, the auditory cortex of zebra finches, I thought that was pretty funny for an engineer, especially because Twitter's mascot, is that little blue bird. I forgot about it until a couple of years ago when I noticed, another bird brain scholar in the top echelons of tech. This person had been hired by Elon Musk the entrepreneur behind, tesla and SpaceX to join his new company, neural link nearly Inc is a very secretive futuristic company, which is trying to supercharge, the human brain. Let's all sounds pretty obscure, you'd think studying bird brains wouldn't be to relevant to studying human brains or figuring out social media rate. That's why remembered it, it just felt so random. But now here we're too. So one day when I was a little bored. I. Tried typing zebra, Finch and the names of several big tech companies into Google. And what did you find? I found quite a few employees who knew a lot about zebra finches. That was that companies like Intel and apple and Google, too. I was surprised. Okay. Hang on. Sara, I'm googling this does. Leaper Finch is the most common stranded, Finch of central Australia and ranges over most of the continent. Avoiding only the cool, moist south and tropical far north zebra finches are loud and boisterous singers. So what's the connection here? Well, that's where I jumped into the reporting process goes to figure out why companies are hiring bird brain experts in this little quest has taken us to college campuses around the country. We've is it. Several university labs some smelled better than others. We heard a lot of bird saw, so this guy, and so they're, they're very late. Super active. How big would you say that thing is like, so they're about fifteen grams total weights? They're mostly feathers. That's Tim Achi a neuroscientist and assistant professor at Boston University showing us zebra Finch in has bird lab and telling us about his research on bird, brains. He's running some pretty extraordinary experiments own over the the the implant. So this is actually just a lens. Okay. And so if you look at the top see that little black thing, that's coming up. So that's a lens if you look down at you could see the brain, but there's probably not enough like getting down there that you could actually see it. It turns out what Tim's learning about the brains of these tiny birds of great interest to the world's largest tech companies. I'm Brad stone and Sarah McBride that I'm Ashley Vance. And you're listening to decrypt it. So guys, tell me a little bit more about Tim Timoci and his, I'm sure wonderfully smelling lab. Out in Boston. Yeah. We'll Tim's lab was one of the key stops on our trip. Tim took over a Boston University lab from Tim Gardner, the guy who left to work for Alon musket and early Inc. Tim Achi is the forty year old guy with black frame glasses who throws in plenty of references to Portland area and other TV shows when he chats on his office wall. He's got print of voltage, chases called five seconds of Donkey Kong. Now we're talking about something I'm familiar with. So what what's the connection here? It's hers out that, that old eighties video game became the subject of a famous. Neuro science research, paper, there's one other thing you should know about Tim his a giant zebra Finch tattoo on his right forearm. Brad, how familiar are you is Seabra? Well, Ashley other than my very brief Wikipedia search just now other than small birds that sing a lot, I would say, not very familiar. They are very cute. Little birds. Indeed. They're about four inches long, the males have orange cheeks, and black and white stripe. Feathers across their chests. Hence the name the super easy to breed. And they chirp allot his Tim's interpretation. So how did Tim get into studying bird brains? He took a circuitous route into neuroscience. One thing I found interesting. Is he started as an engineer working at a company that helped factories to automate, his job was teaching robots how to sort stuff, everything from car parts to gizmos for circuit boards? It was just a stoning to me, how difficult it was to get things to do this. And these were tasks that, you know, children. Do it really putting my mind the idea that, you know, a lot of the, the things that, that children can do almost effortlessly, and without almost any training are incredibly impossible to get artificial systems to do or take an enormous amount of thought. Okay. So I think I understand Tim was curious about why a certain task is so easy for child, but so difficult for a robot. Yeah, that's exactly it. So after a detour to Tim ended up studying neuroscience at Harvard and that's where he discovered zebra finches. Now, he's teaching at BU and doing his own research. One thing Tim focuses on is how zebra finches learned to sing ten described his study of zebra Finch is more of a means to an end. I don't really think of myself or or care, too much about, you know. Songbird neuroscience. Specifically, I take it as a as a way to investigate general principles and mechanisms in neuro science, and how brains function, generally. So Tim is saying that he studies these teeny tiny zebra Finch brains because he thinks it will give us insights into the way human brains function. That's right. Researchers study all different kinds of animals for all different kinds of purposes. But in this case, they're trying to learn more about the human brain seeing how birds learn to sing, for example can provide insights into how we learn things. So I think that, you know, the songbird is one of those systems that we probably understand the best in terms of the different brain regions that are involved in terms of the roles of those different brain regions. And so I think that we can ask very, very precise questions in the songbird about the interaction between brain activity and behavior, a Sarah, you started out by saying that studying the brains of zebra, finches or somehow interesting for. Tech companies. So if Tim studies the birds, because their connections between bird brains and human brains are there also connections between bird brains and computers. Absolutely. But to understand it any to explain a little bit more about Tim's research when we met him in Boston before we went into the room with the real life zebra, finches, he played us when at his best songbird clips. And so that's what the song sounds like. Okay. So that's one. Yeah. So that's what the, that's what the this particular zebra, Finch, sings, all of them have slightly different songs. Thank a cartoon. Yeah, it sounded a little like, Woody woodpecker, right? But that, but that is actually that is actually what it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. We listen to these all day long. Tim told us while male and female zebra, finches, conserve only males finches sing, even if they're song is so short, it doesn't sound like much of a song to us. Tim studies. The brains of the baby birds is they learn here's the baby's zebra Finch trying to imitate his dad's song. He makes an early effort and then a better one a month later shoes. The father. This month when this one. Well, okay. Then we can do that with the middle on where he's not quite got it, right. Yeah. So Ashley, I'm kind of praying that in these experiments. He's not hurting these beautiful teeny tiny birds. Every basically what it does is they take these birds that have been injected with a benign virus. The virus makes their brains produce. A type of protein, the causes individual neurons to light up when they fire they glow green and red to see them in action Tim in the grad students at his lab, performed very delicate surgery on the zebra finches to implant tiny tiny microscopes in their brain. Tim showed us one bird, who had gone through this procedure male zebra Finch. And so I believe on his head. He's got one of these windows. I was telling you about. And so this guy has already been through the procedure in which we inject the viruses into the brain. And then we've put a a a, a window or a lens on top so that we can actually image through it. He will eventually get a microscope attached. Sarah. That sounds completely crazy. Give us a better sense, for what this looks like. So there are all these little birds happing around with a tiny bit of their skull missing. And instead, they have a maker scope there and a little hole where you can look in and see what's going on in their brain. The microscope sits there for days, weeks months at a time looking at their neurons. Fire in, in real time and the birds are in their little cages. And then when you go into their lab, it's actually it's pretty cool. There's all these wires going off these cages straight until, like a data center where they store all of this information. And so, basically, you just get to get to watch this bird's brain behave in real time, and then go back and look through all information. Sarah, should we feel sorry for these birds? I didn't they seemed really happy. They were hopping around the chirping. They were acting normal, as far as they could tell based on the ones I saw without microscopes in their head. I really didn't seem to be too much difference. Okay. So how is this useful for the neuro-scientists? They look deep inside each birds brain, and they look to see which neurons are firing. And for how long when say the bird is learning to sing, and they can make hypotheses on the relationship between different neurons. So that's actually a technique used pretty widely in science now on all kinds of animals. While we revisiting Tim in Boston. We also stopped by mouse lab that does something similar and official AB these are the labs the neuroscientists are studying other things as well. Like how animals move what happens in their brains? When they make decisions for example at the Rowland institute in Cambridge. We saw a couple of video games that mice play using tiny joysticks size for mouse PA a wow. So how do they how do the mice get the quarters in the video game machine? The highly trained is e and the video games tells us what it tells us how they're making decisions. Exactly. So the, the mice are a lot like the birds they have bits of their skull of been removed and were watching their brains in real time again. And so you watch them play these video games. And you see how they adapt. Sometimes they get different rules. And, and you see how the the mouse learns the rules of the game, and they move this choice, stick around in one of them to find the edges of a box. And if the mouse's successful, it gets a little bit of sugar water and all this time. The scientists are sitting there seeing which parts of the brain, light up and how the mouse reacts to these different situations. So what is it about this research that tech companies find so interesting when reason is that the scientists are working with tons, and tons of data and that's something that every tech company needs to do? And also, it's to do with artificial intelligence the field that has computer systems mastering. Tasks that require human traits, like visual perception or decision making, maybe how do I dent cat? That sounds simple. But it's actually way more nuanced than a traditional computer task and very hard for a computer to master. So there's this one school of thought that moving forward should loosely be modeled after the human brain they I systems we have today, but still basically number crunching systems. They're doing tons of statistical calculations. And if we want to get to this, this future that Sarah's talking about where you actually have decision, making, and much more sophisticated thought the, the ideas that we could borrow from the human brain, and maybe have something that's way more flexible than what a computer could do. And so presumably since we can't cut open human, skulls, and make people play video games against their will the zebra Finch brands first step. Yeah. Exactly. Human brains are a little too big and complicated to study in the. Kind of detail we can get from animals right now. They're smaller easier to study, and obviously the ethics studying living human brain. Very tricky. So I'm so curious about why zebra finches become the bird to study. And what exactly tech companies are doing with all this? Let's get to that after the break. Business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes. They want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP green lake pay per use outcomes on your terms, come to HP green lake and see the future of IT get there at HP dot com slash green lake. Okay. Sarah nationally, so, before the break you explained, how neuroscience is starting to inform the way tech companies designed AI systems. So I guess this means it's a very good time to be a neuroscientist. Yes. So these these people that used to be academia, or working at universities for their whole career are now finding tons of job opportunities in Silicon Valley companies like Google and apple and Amazon are all snatching them up, including a lot of these zebra Finch experts that we've been talking about. It's how the company that probably makes the chips in your laptop won't say exactly how many people it has working in a I, but it's a lot and many of them have this expertise Intel helps its customers soup up machines to get them to behave smarter. And in more human lake waves. That could mean may be working with a self driving car maker, and that carmaker needs its vehicles to make lightning fast decisions on the road. And they have to be good decisions promising way to do that is to build computer systems that imitate how the human. Brain works in the human brain. The systems are called sign ups is in pathways in a machine. They're called neural networks. We talked to Amir customers Shahi the chief technology officer for Intel's AI products division. Since around two thousand eleven. In a while. I don't know why. Vision. Speech, navigation reinforcement learning things that are related to narrow science because is also Catholic humans do pretty well. Amir's, the computational neuroscientist by training. He got his gauge at UC Berkeley. And he ended up hiring another Berkeley PHD, grad Tyler Lee to work at Intel and helping virtual assistance understand, human speech, Tyler spends a lot of time thinking about how speech works in different environments, like cars, knowing, context, simple, things like if the speakers the driver or the passenger makes it a lot easier to understand what they're saying, for example, drivers more likely to ask about directions, some of the work on context, does actually reminds him a lot of his PHD work studying. You'd guessed it zebra finches Newburgh as recognize what type of call is being being emitted by by the wanna tearing, and then then it can go in recognize who that Vert is, is that is that a family member mate? You know, is it another ranger a different type of bird, should I be concerned? The vocal identification is one thing where it's, it's. Context Pacific and recognizing the context. Let you better understand. We'll go signature mostly Tyler says his studies helped him with big picture stuff neuroscience teaches you how to think about complex problems of signal processing, where I take some something from the world that comes in. It's an image. It's it's sound and it's it's noisy, and it's high very, very high dimensional, and I have to break it down into into features that I can then use to, to, like, do something with solve a task with, that's what the brain does all the time. And that's sort of the abstract level Tyler's boss. Amir says he's no zebra Finch chauvinist. He's got people on his team, who studied flies rats locus, even worms these very simple organisms. Exhibit really complex behaviors that are still a challenge for us to, to simulate and silicon New Zealander networks and machine learning. So even a simple warm inchworm is a really complicated. Robotic machine. That's really macula us. So we look for inspiration from simple to humans. So, I guess, Intel and all these other companies must be developing products, which incorporate a I developed with the help of the zebra Finch experts besides commands to self driving cars. Is there any area where knowing a lot about sound itself is helpful, and I guess, went went to all these years of studying zebra Finch, finally pay off? You could think about features on your phone, or computer that let you unlock the device with your voice or stuff, like noise reduction and phone calls. And on video calls I can't wait till I can sing a little zebra Finch song and my phone unlocks but anything beyond gadgets. Yeah, absolutely animal. Neuroscience connects to a lot of fields, especially health somewhere could be relevant for Parkinson's research because animals help. Researchers figure out how to stop tremors. They also help in areas like how to handle limbs outside of medicine, the work might grow, even more futuristic. This is where we. We get into dystopia and scenarios. I suspect what, what else exactly like neural link a mentioned that company earlier because Elon Musk had hired zebra Finch scholar. And it's one of the companies that we believe is working on very futuristic technology. You must keep dropping hints on Twitter that the company's about to announce a big breakthrough. Nobody knows exactly what, but it's going to have something to do with brain machine interfaces. So I'm trying hard not to think about some Star Trek episodes on this topic, which all ended quite badly. But help me understand Ashley, what a brain machine interfaces about of it at its most basic level as idea that you have a two way, interplay between humans and computers where you could actually funnel, information back and forth. We already have examples of stuff like this with implants that help people here or stop Parkinson's tremors. In this case, I think people are looking at much more futuristic applications where you might even have like a mesh that's attached to your brain. And you could full on. Download your brain to a machine or learn Japanese and five seconds. There's another company called kernel. That's in the same field and like neural Inc. It's also very mysterious. And in some ways, that's kind of the best part, when we don't know exactly what they're doing. We can imagine all kinds of crazy stuff going back to ULA Muskie. He's been talking about where nearly could go maybe allowing people to have this kind of super human cognition where you could you could think on par with a machine, or certainly much better than we do today. That means basically stuff, like you could download an entire for language directly into your brain. Or maybe instantly grabbing encyclopedia people like to macho, you've been thinking about exactly these scenarios for years and can really nerd out on the possibilities trick trivia, would be over. Jeopardy would not be thing anymore. Alex trebek's would be out of a job. He has some more serious thoughts on the topic to find the idea that we could, you know, pretend one day in maybe distant future. You know, really right information directly into the brain that we could actually have a high band with way to get really Sifi about it, kind of a matrix. Like, I think that would be amazing. We are nowhere near knowing anything about how to get there we can barely even scratched the surface of what that would be like. But I you know, in terms of fantasy, what would I like to do one day, I would love to be able to contribute, even a small way to figuring out how we can have this sort of bidirectional interface with the brain? Oh my God. So, yeah, this is wild evoke ation of the matrix does not make me feel more comfortable about this. What are the skeptics say about about at all? Well, there are plenty of skeptics out there. They're checked in with one scholar at the university of Chicago din. Margaglio sh the idea that we're going to reverse engineers britainop, reverse engineer forward engineer, the, the, the human brain. So we can download tons of material into it very rapidly. And I don't know what pick up a language overnight or something I it's, it's the way people make progresses to dream. And so I'm, I'm a scientist. I'm one hundred percent for that. But that's really sounds more fantastical than realistic. Okay. Did ignores ignores the remarkable ways we learn and ignores our evolutionary history? So, I would, I would it'll be interesting to see what progress they make for sure. So guys, the possibility of super human cognition. Sounds appealing, you know, if it were up to you to and, and somebody was offering to put a chip or an apparatus in the year brains like they're doing the to the poor little zebra Finch. Would you do it? Substance. We're already doing this stuff today. If you have an implant to help you here or things to stop Parkinson's tremors. Yeah. If I had one of those conditions I would absolutely get one of these implants, and supercharge myself when you start going into this, this next wave of stuff, it gets far more philosophical and complicated. Because you're talking about changing humans from what they are some sort of weird. Next step of evolution where we're kind of half man half machine. You know, in some ways, there's people, I talked to like the guys at Colonel who argue that this is the only way, humans will be able to keep up with machines. And we always hear about losing jobs start official intelligence and seeing what humans can do going away. And so, you know, if you're having half you can, you can keep up but maybe keep some of your humanness as well. Sarah, what about cyborgs, Sarah McBride will be ever ever see that? Hate me cell phone. So I doubt it. But what about this idea of keeping up with robots and, and, yeah, there are people who think that AI could help us solve problems like climate change? I think that's too optimistic. The funny borrowed will do the story for be was that, that in the AI cab, you tend to have I feel like people who think the technology is really far along you. If you're talking about specifically computer scientists in the Silicon Valley kind of crew, they're very impressed. What they've come up with over the last few years, where we went to talk to all these brain. Researchers the ones who are down in the box down at the the neurons. They seemed on the whole to me, much more skeptical about when we would see huge break Thursdays seem to think that a lot of the stuff was years and years away, and I felt like they had this sense of how complicated the brain really isn't that a locking its secrets is is gonna take a long. But given the fact that they are taking the first steps to what will ultimately be very transformative and challenging controversial technology Sarah, did you get the sense that they were wrestling with the ethical complications of their work, you actually turned out to have studied philosophy at some point in their careers, which I thought was pretty interesting. And yeah. They talk about the decisions that a carmaker might have to make it more important to preserve the life of a passenger, or pedestrian stuff like that. So, yeah, they're thinking about these big problems. That doesn't mean they know how to answer them though anymore than we would. But they say that means these systems will be very human one day. Do they understand that? They have now found themselves right at the center of this next wave in, in computing. They to degree that definitely excited. I mean, just in very crass terms, a lot of these people get much better job offers than they would have in the past, you know, there used to be far less neuro science graduates. It wasn't that a. Feeling of a field. We didn't know much about the brain all these promised breakthroughs. Weren't happening at all in, in now you can go to a university do this amazing work, or if you kinda get tired of that, or you want to poke around somewhere else that you can go work for one of these tech companies and get paid. I don't know like ten times what you make at one of these labs ought to bring this all the way back to the beginning, Sarah, is it too early when I talked to Alexa, or Siri or Google voice to thank the little zebra Finch. Can we can we see any of the zebra Finch in that research in today's AI, we see some of it already in things like voice recognition and making better audio quality? But I think some of the biggest stuff is yet to come, and we can always check in with Tim Achi. And that's it for this week's episode of decrypted. Thanks for listening lake to know what you think of the show, you can write to us at decrypted at Bloomberg dot net poor. I'm on Twitter at McBride s g marmot, Brad stone, and I'm at valley hack please help us spread the word about our show by leaving us a rating or review in your favorite podcast app. This episode was produced by he get Cari and Lindsey Crowell. Our story editor was Akihito. Thank you, also, to end, Vander may and Emily BSO, Francesca Levy is head of Bloomberg podcasts. We'll see you next week. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit HP dot com slash green lake. To learn more.

Tim zebra Finch Sarah McBride Leaper Finch Intel HP HP green lake Twitter Google Tim Achi zebra Finch Ashley Vance Boston engineer Elon Musk Brad stone tremors Tim Timoci scientist Parkinson
The New iPhones and Apples Future: A Preview

Decrypted

19:42 min | 1 year ago

The New iPhones and Apples Future: A Preview

"Decrypted is brought to you by hewlett packard enterprise introducing h. p. e. green lake a new way to consume i._t. As a service visit h p dot com slash green lake to learn more. Hey if you're a long-time listener of decrypted you might recognize my voice. My name's akito <music> an editor with bloomberg and i was one of the original co host of the show and i am so happy to say. I'm back to be your host again. We've we've been working on some amazing stories that i can't wait to share with the over the next few months and with that. I hope you enjoy our first episode of the season. This is day. I've been looking forward to for two and a half years. It's january nine two thousand seven an apple ceo. Steve jobs is on stage at the moscone center in san francisco every once in a while a revolutionary product comes along that changes. Everything apple at this time is worth about seventy a billion dollars. It's making computers and it's making ipods. If you remember what those are it's a well known company but certainly not one of the most powerful or four in the world three things a wide screen ipod touch controls a revolutionary mobile phone and and a breakthrough internet communications device jobs is here to announce the next big thing a widely anticipated product that he's andy can apple's future on these are not three separate devices this one device the calling i phone the twelve and a half years later apple is in a very different place today if that moment in two thousand seven was the beginning of historic historic surge. That's turn apple into an almost one trillion dollar. Giant apple is now contending with a stall out in need of its next blockbuster product act today on the show ahead of apple's announcement of the next generation nation of devices. You'll be hearing from our consumer products reporter mark gherman who has extensive details on what to expect from these new funds including cameras that can take wider photos. Will these upgrades be enough to reinvigorate growth at apple. I'm akihito. You're listening to decrypted the st with us. It's a vessel. The next apple event is upon us and we're getting a fresh batch of apple devices in a matter of days. The invitation is out scott and it says by innovation only please join us for an apple special event at the steve jobs theater in cupertino tino september tenth at ten a._m. Of course got this would be in which it is so mark. We're just days away from apple's annual event. Where executives get is. We'll be announcing the company's new slate of products as a reporter covering apple. What are these final weeks like free. Oh yeah i mean the final. Two weeks is sort of the marathon to the end and this is the time where there's lots of information floating around from lots of different people <hes>. Are you stressed out right now now. I don't get stressed about it. I mean believe it or not. It's been almost ten years about nine in a little bit more than nine and a half years since i started covering apple so it's it's just the usual stuff year over year for me here so we started the show. Oh today with steve jobs unveiling the very first iphone <hes> i was in college at the time and i vaguely remember hearing about it in the news. Do you remember that day when steve jobs and that's iphone. Where was i so at the time. I remember that i knew the macworld world conference was that day but i remember going to apple dot com and i was like wow that's the cool thing ever. It was like something that the tech industry hadn't seen before. I mean if you see the reactions of people in the crowd is just unbelievable people. That's not something that we've seen not only from <music> apple really many technology players since then last year apple came out with three different versions of the iphone you can think of them as the two high-end models and the one low and model the most expensive one of course was tennis max. That's the one with high resolution screen the best cameras the the biggest size then there's the ten s which is basically the same phone smaller and then we got this low end model called the ten are not not as nice of a display not as nice of a camera but it's also a few hundred dollars cheaper. Mark tells about the biggest changes coming to this year's models so there is going to be the same screen sizes and the cameras will both be upgraded on on both sets of phone so right now. The ten are as you know has one camera on the back and the ten as- tennis max have two cameras on the back the story this year will be two cameras on the successor to the ten dr in three cameras on the back of both sides of the high end pro phone and what does it mean when you have more cameras when you add a the second camera. It allows you to have optical zoom right now. If you're on a single camera today when you go to zoom in and you go past the standard the range of one point zero x zoom it will get a little blurred because it's digital zoom versus physical zoom but the more lenses you have the farther you can go without degrading the quality but you'll also get is improved portrait mode because you're actually getting multiple working together to do that blur effect and he'll get some additional national stage lighting effects as well and these new cameras on the high end phones. What will they be able to do. The third camera on the pro iphones uh-huh. That's where things get really interesting that opens up a whole wide range of possibilities so one you'll get even deeper zoom without degrading quality because as you have three lenses optically working together you'll probably get zero point five x soon now which means that you're able to take pictures that are farther back so you can capture options more information more detail on the edges so you basically get much wider photograph. There's also going to be significantly improved low light photos which is something people have complained about and what about the pricing on these funds because they seem to get more expensive by the year yeah yeah i mean that's a good question. I'd really expect the pricing to be very consistent to the current prices right so round seven hundred fifty eight hundred dollars as for the low end model which would be replacing the ten are and then the same you know one thousand dollars to fourteen fifty or fifteen hundred pricing for the high end models dole's depending on screen size and storage capacity. It's crazy that the lewin model is like in the seven hundred dollar range. That's not low end at all. No it's not low. Oh and that's the thing about the ten hours like it's always been position as this cheaper iphone apple sort of position to this the iphone for everyone but the fact of the matter is is that it's the same exact zac price as the iphones before they rose the prices two hundred fifty three hundred dollars to two thousand dollars at the base with the iphone ten a few years ago so aside died from the camera upgrades that we just talked about there are still quite a few more additional tweaks coming to the iphone that mark. You've reported over the last few days days. We're going to keep that story pinned on bloomberg dot com slash tech for our listeners who want to know more about the smaller details that we're just not going to have time to get into in this episode but overall it does sound like all of these changes to the iphone are pretty incremental. I don't get the sense that these will feel like entirely new products for the average consumer. I don't think so but i think the thing that shouldn't be lost is that apple has has really slowed down a say. It's innovation cycle in terms of design on the iphones in recent years and if you look at the history of the iphones obviously the original iphone in two thousand seven was like nothing we'd seen before then the next year they changed the design with the plastic curve black and white backs of the iphone three g the kept that for the three guests then they came out with the four twenty ten. Nothing looked completely different. I remember being really blown away by by that design. It just felt super new. They used to be new design s year with the same design now. It's basically three years in row. The saint look which i think is one other reasons that people are not upgrading at the same speed that used to coming up how <unk> apple will be changing its other products including the ipod. The watch the macbook air pods and also what this will all mean for the future of apple <hes>. We'll be right back okay so before the break we went through a couple changes coming to the three existing ifo models the tennis the tennis max ten are mark tells about at some of the other products apple's going to be announcing this month. Let's start with the watch yeah so the apple watch got a really really big upgrade last year with the series four four so this year i think it's going to be really minor. Update focusing on the casings more visual and material base changes rather than real functionality changes and what about the ipad. You're the ipad is interesting because they're working on a bigger ipad upgrade for next year. This would be an ipad ipad with three d. cameras on the back which is what they're also going to add to the iphone for twenty twenty as well so you'll be able to use these laser based cameras to really get a better picture of where you are in a room much better augmented reality computer vision in a._i. Applications and so that's going to be a really big deal for consumers and the enterprise is use cases as well and businesses in for this year you know we're expecting a softer ipad upgrade focusing on the processor focusing on the cameras rather than anything really significant taken and what about the air pods yeah the air pods. Those are interesting. Everyone wants to talk about airport. So we got the original ones in twenty sixteen then then there was the air pods update in march with the new processor the support for the siri command. I don't wanna say the word right now and have all my devices go off up and they're also working on a new model. This is a higher end. I guess you can call it. A pro model would be a little bit more expensive would have the wireless charging. There's a while but what you would also get a sense of noise cancellation and some water resistance and i think those are gonna launch around the end of this year or next year and any updates coming to the macbooks. What we are gonna get is a new sort of even pro mac pro so it's a bigger mac book pro. It's part of this approach to lock in professional users and retain them. This is going to have a over sixteen inch screen about sixteen and a half inches and i think that's going to be something about a lot of pro users going to run to buy and i hope it's not too expensive myself. Let's take a moment to zoom out and talk about the greater context for apple all right now. This is a really interesting time for the company. Maybe one of the most challenging times in recent history walk us through the different. The headwinds that apple's facing right now tariffs is is a big one. I feel like that's something that's in the news every day. I don't think it's really going to impact consumers a whole lot. I think apple's sort of incorporated the price already of tariff impact on the devices. I mean you see expensive. The iphones are already. I don't see any possibility posssibility them. Getting more expensive apple's going to have to take a slight margin or they're going to have a real problem. Selling phones that are eighteen hundred dollars. Just not gonna happen. You saw the prices the ipad pro and the apple pencil on a bunch of other impacted accessories by tariffs happening over the past year or so you see the math pro is six thousand dollars displays as another six thousand dollars. If you get the stand so i think these prices are too high as it is and i think there are a little high because you know it's incorporating the cost of the tariffs already in there. The other thing is coming out with breakthrough new thing right <hes> i. It's been a while the next one will be in a are headset. There's a few other things that they're working on that. We'll be writing about about soon as well so it's interesting and it's to be seen if they get these things out the door wherever the car the car when they went to work on that five six two years ago it was supposed to launch right now right is that still in the works it's not they've completely rebooted the project. They're focusing on the underlying self in writing technology. They could eventually go back to building a car but in terms of the ambition they had five six years ago out the door. Now i mean listening to you. Talk talk about all the new products that apple's planning to launch this fall or maybe next year. It sounds like there's just a ton of them. You know they're different. Price iterations nations of the various products and then they're just certainly more products than back during steve jobs age yeah i agree. They're doing a lot but it's it's also. It's a different time period right. The competition is so much stronger in so here's the problem amazon comes with a really really cool device and and let's say it's the echo speaker the alexa speaker a few years ago and then down the road people really get attached to the echo speaker in apple this happened so the people start buying the amazon speaker right and people start moving away from the apple ecosystem to the amazon ecosystem because amazon offers hardware products and categories that apple doesn't in half and that's how you lose customers out of your ecosystem by not completely locking by not covering all the bases and that's why you're seeing this pushing services. That's why you're seeing being apple music. That's why you're seeing the apple credit card so if you're an iphone user you have your banking in your phone. You had apple cart on your phone. How in the world are you going to switch the android. When samson comes is that with some breakthrough new phone that you know everyone wants in two years from now right you can't do it. They're not going to have the apple cart on the same phone to be like wow. I can't switch completely locked in so that's what it's about. That's why apple's doing this type of stuff in terms of apples. Revenue is the strategy of selling more products helping them offset. Ah declining sales of iphone itself so yeah. Maybe offset is a good word. They're not growing very strongly. I mean i anticipate that. They'll have some growth in cute one for this year given that last year's first quarter was such a disaster sales wise. I mean when i say disaster eighty billion dollars. There's no disaster but for them. It was a drop in growth. It was big expectation so something interesting. Was that the iphone at forty eight percent of revenues last quarter which is one of the lowest percentages percentages in years which is a good thing. I mean some of the diversification is working but you know the reality is that all these products and services really are around the iphone a hug you know the air pods. It's an iphone things. Siri is an iphone thing. I get list every apple product every apple service every apple application and make a really solid argument as to why why it's basically completely rely on the iphone so even though iphone sales are declining. It's still the core of the company. You might as well call it. I don't think and so as as a result apple still needs to find its next blockbuster hit it does it needs to find whatever the hub will be afterwards right. I mean you've seen it change over the arabs. It was the mac than it was the ipod now which the iphone some people thought it would be the ipad the ipad really quickly turned and out to be a companion product so i mean if the question is eventually going to build your world around glasses eventually gonna build your world around watch while we'll see but apple seems to be trying ryan all the different possibilities and you know at the end of the day i personally feel like awesome apple fields but my personal feeling is that you know people are always going to want to carry a device ice. They can do everything from in their pocket or in their purse or their backpack so i don't really see the iphone going away anytime soon based on what you know oh right now from what you've been able to tell us today. Do you think this new slate of products that are coming. This fall are the game changer that apple's looking before. I don't think anything coming out with this. Fall is a game changer. I don't think this is going to boost their sales boost their profile etc etc but i also don't victor a game changer in the negative way. None of these products will do anything to hurt them. It'll keep everything moving smoothly for them and that's important. What are you gonna going to be watching for from apple over. I don't know let's say like the next two three four years. The big thing for me is for sure gonna be this augmented reality slash virtual for reality headset. They've been working on. I think that's the big focus area moving away from intel in terms of their processors for laptops. That's going to be another big one as well as the twenty twenty twenty iphone with five g. I think those are the three big things on my plate. If our listeners wanna watch this fall event live where they'll be unveiling the the new iphones and all these other products. Where can they follow along. We'll be live streaming at apple dot com as they normally do. I would expect but also of course by twitter account twitter komo slash mark gherman for the best live commentary on twitter all day all day every day and of course we'll be posting stories all day long on timber tenth on our website at bloomberg dot com slash tech mark gherman. Thanks for being on the show today and decrypted is produced by need akihito and ethan brooks. Emily be so am vendor. May are are story editors. Francisco levy is the head of bloomberg podcasts. We'll see you next week. <music> decrypted it is brought to you by hewlett packard enterprise introducing h._p. Green lake a new way to consume i._t. As service visit h._p. Dot com slash green lake to learn more.

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Your Guide to the Uber IPO

Decrypted

22:40 min | 1 year ago

Your Guide to the Uber IPO

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service. Visit H P E dot com slash green lake to learn more. There are no finish lines in the world of business. But this is about as close as it gets a decade after a startup called Uber cab started out, it's a black car service in San Francisco Heuberger Technologies, inC, is going public in one of the largest IPO of all time perhaps more than any other company. Uber has come to embody the exuberance and the hubris of today's tech titans. Uber's this generation startup disruptor barreled into cities decimated the global taxi industry and burn through billions of dollars in investor cash over twelve billion dollar valuation seventeen billion dollar valuation massive point billion dollar valuation. It also was embroiled in scandal. Uber came to symbolize the worst of Silicon Valley excess with a complete disregard for regulations and fierce win at all cost mentality. Uber founder Travis county announced taste resigning as CEO after five major. Investors to mandate that he go. It marks a stunning downturn. For one of silicon valley's highest flying startups humor Expedia cheap executive DARA Kuzma shot. He took over this week replaced. Dubar says it's reformed. It's been playing nice with city officials. The company's CEO has met with prime ministers and presidents and the company is spending millions on new businesses perspectives that we had so been an tipping has been disclosed seeking evaluation of eighty six billion dollars. That's about twenty eight percent lower than the one hundred twenty billion dollar target this week. Uber shares finally hit the public market. It's a moment that employees. Investors regulators and many journalists including my friend Eric here have been waiting for. And it might also be ultimate test of whether the new world of the so-called gig economy can grow up and turn into normal and dare we say even profitable business. I'm Brad stone. And I'm Eric newcomer. You're listening to decrypted. So Eric you have been covering Uber for Bloomberg technology now for almost four years. So personally, what does the IPO mean for you, it sort of feels like Uber's growing up and going away to college? So it's this fascinating moment where it's going from this private sort of secretive company to this, you know, globally sort of much more open and transparent machine. Brad. I mean, you've covered it sort of no less closely wrote a book on the topic. How are you feeling right now to me? I mean, the story of Uber is like in part of the story of San Francisco over the last decade the story of getting around in cities. I spent a couple of days in LA, you know, I don't rent a car when I go to cities like LA anymore. It's such a remarkable story of changes in urban transportation changes in the global economy. And then changes in the way, people are working right now. I think we need to sort of lay out the two characters here. We've got Travis kalanick's, you know, the co founder of Uber who defines sort of the image. He's the brash CEO who is willing to ignore regulators operating grace spaces destroy competitors. Travis still owns a good percentage of the company. Right. How wealthy will he get in the next week? Well, it depends. How much it's worth. But he owns nine percent of the company. So that's pretty easy math. If it's worth a hundred billion dollars that's about nine billion dollars. But he's going to be a multi multi-billionaire because of his role in creating new Bor okay now his successor DARA cadre Shahi how much does he own and describe him? And how is he different from Travis Darras the professional CEO. He was hired after all of travis's shenanigans Travis gets ousted in two thousand seventeen and then Dora is the dark horse candidate who the board picks from Expedia to sort of stabilize the company. Dr is going to be far less wealthy compensation is largely tied to getting the Uber worth one hundred twenty billion. So how much? Actually makes off this whole thing will depend on his success at getting the company to sustain a really atmospheric valuation for a significant amount of time. How do you think DARA has done? Oh, I mean from from a public image perspective, it's been remarkable. Right. Not not only the the press. Attention that Uber gets but the way in which regulators and cities like London and New York City. You are I think are more willing to come to the table and talk to her and create some kind of sensible rules. I mean, the bottom line is that, you know, for me, at least in tell me, if you agree in some certainly do that, no Uber. It has been good for cities. There have been negative impacts. Like, you know, increase congestion, but but by and large they've increased an opportunity for drivers. And they've solved a massive taxi shortage and a lot of cities and yet, you know, because of travis's reputation, and because of the the company's early orientation toward breaking rules or not negotiating and launching. Without permission. Uber. Just got this bad reputation. I think Dora has helped that quite a bit on the optics front. There's no question. He's turned things around the only caveat. I I'd give is just you know, the status of drivers that they're independent contractors and not workers that they don't have a lot of visibility into how much money they make. I think if you had to think of the sins of Uber's business models sort of establishing the gig economy that ethical question is alive today. Just as much as it ever was, you know, Eric when I told you I was Uber ring around LA yesterday. And I talked in preparation for those. I talk to every driver. There was one guy who was a nursing student, and he was driving in the margins of his time in between classes. There was another guy was a parking attendant who is doing this Sunday's after work to earn some extra money. So to to me, you know, it's created a new kind of opportunity it's probably been a poor fulltime job. But you know, but without some of the protections that norm. Fulltime labor has. So Eric before we go any further. Explain explain to me the significance of this IPO moment. Right. Uber is never had any problems raising capital. So why do this at all right for most companies you go public because you need a massive amount of money to make the next leap to really say. Okay. We're going to deliver what we've been doing on a much larger scale they've raised like twenty billion dollars on the private markets, which is an obscene amount of money. It's more about letting knows existing shareholders that they've sold to be able to trade shares in a public market. So letting some people sell their stakes so our in different people to come in and invest in Uber. And I think it just also is going to force them to operate with a little more quarterly rigor, right? And they have been operating in a quasi public manner. I mean, you've been getting a lot of those quarterly financial statements, but certainly the wider world as you say retail investors will be watching closely and the one thing that they will be look. For is whether this company can ever make any money, right? So how how's it looking? So if you let's think about Uber is losses for a second. If you're talking about money out the door. They're losing ten billion dollars over the last three years. So it's a huge amount of money just to set the stage. And so then the question is can they outgrow it can they keep finding new ways to drive the revenue up. So that somehow this could sort of be a profitable business. But Eric that the court transaction that underlies Heuberger the ride. I mean, they're so there's no reason that that should be unprofitable. Right, right. I was rereading Garrett camp. The other co founder Uber's original slide deck when he was planning Guber out. And he was said it was designed to be profitable. You know, it, and it seemed so intuitive. Uber's taking a percentage of the fair that should be pure profit. That's a great business. That's why everybody loved Uber. The problem has been one competition. People are happy. To switch between lifting Uber. So when they're discounting those discounts can be very expensive between the two companies. So that's been a major source of cost. But then there are other things. You know, Uber is now accompany allowing people to move around the world that risk that somebody dies or other forms of injury makes their insurance costs super high. So turns out there actually all these sort of embedded costs to how you run that business. And I would imagine that the hope is that this business will get more profitable over time. Because either you know, some rivals will will go out of business or leave the market, so they'll be able to raise fares or that they'll kind of grow into an integrator scale. And so I guess I raises the question like how much growth is is left. I'm hin. You look at a city like San Francisco or L A or a lot of cities around the world. And you think you know, you can't really put too many more cards on the road traffic already pretty bad. So how how much runways they're left? Uber. Uber. It's S one plays is sort of funny. Word game. Right. They talk about the serviceable ADR. Possible market and the total addressable market in the serviceable addressable market. That's like competition with lift their dominated everywhere. All over the world. They say, okay, we have more than sixty five percent of the market share with them when it comes to total addressable market. They talk about it. You know, having less than one percent because they're point is transportation itself is huge and sharing his just at the beginning of that disruption. So what you're saying is the company is selling investors on a story that's much bigger than ride hailing. Let's talk about that next. Business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes they want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP green lake paper use outcomes on your terms, come to HP, green lake and see the future of IT. Get there at HP dot com slash green lake. Okay. So let's talk about Uber future. You know? Uber is pitching this business has being much greater than ride hailing. Or so what what does the Uber of tomorrow? Look like, well, we know it has food delivery, and that's an area where Uber has been super successful. I mean, the growth is more than one hundred percent year over year. And that's what excites investors, it's long had an autonomous car research project. That's a bucket their scooters and electric bikes. And then there's this logistics business, which is basically helping trucking companies and getting freight delivered all over the United States. So those are sort of the categories we know today. You didn't mention the flying cars. Oh, yeah. The flying cars. Eight sounds like a joke. But of course, they do have a research efforts and flying cars, but it's more partnering with outside helicopters companies. So they're trying to spend less money there. But you know, the future is everywhere to Bryn even flying cars, and do we what do we know about these new businesses like how promising? They look, you know, we can see growth on Uber eats. I I do think, you know, it's again in area where Uber's able to show. Okay. We can tack on new things. But it's hard to understand how Uber eats sort of operates profitably in the future. Right. I don't know if there's enough information to really model out their business model, you just sort of have to trust that sort of people's way of eating is changing. And that there's a reason that all these food delivery companies are growing at once looking at food delivery. I mean, there are so many companies are stored ash which is grown out of nowhere. There's so post mates in caviar. And then there's already public grub hub. Do you think, you know, in startups, usually, it's the focus competitor that scene as having the advantage? Do you think Uber's sort of platform approach will actually help it in food delivery? You know, another way to ask that is like how are they leveraging their their current strength to get into the new market while on the consumer side. It's a different app, right? It. So it's not like there's a convenience that you're a new user, you're going to be an Uber eats customer. Also. And on the driver side. I feel like the advantage is more illusory. I think the drivers that are delivering for Uber eats are different than most of the time. It seems to me than the drivers that are taken passengers to and from the airport. So I don't know what advantage that they have. I think at one point they had this sensibility that you know, they were going to have more prepared meals or a smaller, selection and deliver faster that's kind of gone away. So I think they're kind of now just trying to compete with more focus competitors in a market that those rivals. No a little bit better. Yep. Now over also brings up the Amazon comparison as everyone does these days and says, you know cars are to us what books are to Amazon, and I don't know I find that to be problematic as well. I mean, Amazon had you know, one customer that was buying things from to and on the back end distribution system. These the warehouses where they could apply technology to. Deliver more efficiently. And and yes, the warehouses were stocked with books, but it wasn't a huge leap to put toys and CD roms, and and and then ultimately clothes and jewelry in those same facilities. But you know, as I say like Uber, it's a it's a different customer two different app. You know, and then and then on the on the back end, the kind of different driver with different important things about you know, speed and keeping food warm and and getting it to the customer quickly. So I don't know does the Amazon comparison hold water do right? I think you draw a smart comparison. I mean, Amazon lost so much because it's building up all this infrastructure. It has these warehouses. But then when it's done with them. It has this great advantage over competitors. And it can use them to beat them and other products. So the question for Uber is just does it have that same sort of situation. You talked about drivers how much is a driver base for one product useful for another. I'd say somewhat. I think honestly, Uber would agree that to some degree. Gree. They're different drivers. What Uber would really argue is it's a technological advantage that they're a logistics expert. And I that's not the best moat in the world just sort of an expertise versus an actual network effect. So let's talk about the big day Thursday. Trading begins actually on Friday. What do we know about how excited the market is for this listing? Well, they're excited at a price. You were said a conservative sort of range that would value the company at eighty to ninety billion and we've reported that certainly within that range at the low end there's plenty of appetite to buy the eight to ten billion dollars worth of shares. They would get Hooper public. And so now, we're in this sort of gamesmanship phase where Uber tries to read the markets and decide whether they should raise the price. Whether they should keep it where it is. Because of course, IPO is unlike any other financial event have this very perverse goal, which is you want to go public below the price. You actually think you're worth. So that all those sort of Fidelity's of the world t Rowe Price's get some sort of get a twenty percent. Or so boost when it starts trading, and that's gives them the return to keep them sort of convicted on your stock. And so it's this weird marketing game to show that early trading boost. And and so they're sort of in the process of figuring that out right now. And it also seems like a referendum on everything that has happened in Silicon Valley and the private capital markets over the last ten years. I mean, the valuation of Uber wasn't saying so the last private valuation was seventy six billion dollars. Right. But then investors went and said, and you know, pitch this idea that Uber could be worth over one hundred billion dollars. But let's say it ends at around. You know, the day ends and is worth about ninety billion. I mean, what does it suggest that investors are are convicted about the long-term opportunity? Yes. I think we have to zoom out and say, wow, it ninety billion. You know is worth more than General Motors. It's worth more than tons of major American companies. Right. When you back out at Ciller marketable Business Store. That this was all built in basically the last ticket, right? Okay. So we're as journalists in its Bloomberg journalists, we do not get to invest in these companies, and we certainly don't get paid for giving investment advice. But I just have to raise the hypothetical. Eric would you be a buyer at evaluation of ninety billion a buyer of stock? It's funny. I know Uber super well. But to me, an investment, Uber is an investment on the macro, economic environment and tolerance for companies with tons of debt, and that is a subject, which I know very little about. I it feels like at some point. There's going to be a reckoning over what to do about. The fact that Uber loses so much money and to eventually value accompanying you have to turn a profit. And so I just wouldn't wanna be exposed to the uncertainty that at some point there's going to be market correction and people want to be in companies that can kick off cash because that's what they know is safe. I don't know Brad. When what do you think about, you know, I first of all really do think that this over the long term that this transportation market will be one with the application of AI, you know, not just to you know, to create a Thomas cars, but more efficient, you know routes, and, you know, better better maps, and I think, you know, I think that. Actually, other companies are maybe a little better situated snow longer founder lead company. You know, Dr O's very incentivized to get the company through the IPO just seize on that point. I mean that is the funny thing, right? So if you go public one hundred billion dollars to be a good investment, you have to have a story to be a two hundred billion dollar company. Right. Because it's about growth, you need sort of new product ideas to keep understanding where it's gonna go. And I think that the the vision that Uber is an ex Google, right? I mean, do you. I guess that's what I was saying. Yeah. I don't know. You know, will this be an inventive company over the long term. I mean, I think that you know, that's often fuelled by like, the entrepreneurship inside the company, and, you know, say what you want about Travis, you know, in some of the early co-founders and engineers, but they had that and because a circumstance because they got very wealthy very quickly. They've kind of cycled out. So I guess I'm not convinced that in five years and ten years it continues to be a company that's inventing new things. And then one other point. Know there are things here that probably limit their growth, which is like the tolerance of cities for more traffic, you know, like to put more cars in the road. The b in the biggest markets, you know, New York, and LA and Paris and London. You know, we're going to congestion pricing. You know, we're going to fewer cars, and now more and so in their biggest business ridesharing, you know, it's like you're gonna have to grow in the smaller cities in the suburbs. What do you think it means for other companies and for Silicon Valley overall, if this IP goes, well, the music keeps playing, you know, the party keeps going Uber worked the doubters were wrong. The way Silicon Valley does business, but works and that the technology is still transforming the world. You know, right now is looking like a success story for Silicon Valley. So Eric last question. Uber is going public on Friday. But the more important day might be in three months time when it announces their first quarterly report as a public. Company. So what do you think then they will be like, and and what will investors be looking for in is different than the way? People have been evaluating this company for the last ten years. You know, then we get into this world where people are judging Uber relative to pass performance. It's all about expectations. You know? It starts this quarterly machine of did. They increase revenue. How's the ridesharing business? Doing house breeds doing. How're the losses? You know, then we really have a much more sort of established framework for what it's worth. And then it's how well can execute on that vision. So this is a long journey. Can you imagine, you know, if the stock performances in great, and then we get like activist shareholders and the whole drama around. This company starts again that will make your life more interesting. It's funny to imagine. I it's hard to guess who would be a more steady hand than DARA. You know, what I mean, the the dream journalists situation. Of course is Travis kalanick's saying this company is not the exciting one that I created and you should put me back in the chair. But I think right now his reputation is too much in tatters for that to happen. And you have to imagine though that he is flooding his comeback. Right. I mean, that's got to be in the cards. I I would not count Travis out yet. He wants that comeback story one way or another. Well, I look forward to following the Uber journey as a public company an Eric. I look forward to reading your stories about it. Thanks. And that's it for this week's episode of decrypted, thanks for listening. If you have a story to share I'd love to hear it. You can write to us at decrypted at Bloomberg dot net. Or I'm on Twitter at Eric newcomer. And I'm at Brad stone. And please help us spread the word about her new season by leaving us a rating or submitting a comment in your favorite podcast app. This episode was produced by Kia Cari and Lindsey Crowder. Well, our story editor was an Vander mate. Thank you, also to Emily byu. So and Akihito Francesca. Levy is head of Bloomberg podcast was see you next week. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service. Visit H P E dot com slash green lake to learn more.

Uber Eric Uber Travis HP Silicon Valley green lake Bloomberg CEO Travis kalanick DARA Brad San Francisco founder San Francisco Expedia LA Dora co founder Brad stone
Why Drugs Are Still for Sale on Instagram

Decrypted

27:40 min | 1 year ago

Why Drugs Are Still for Sale on Instagram

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service. Visit H P E dot com slash green lake to learn more. A few weeks ago? I was sitting in a conference room with my colleague, Sara Frier. She covers Facebook and had something to show me. It was an impressive collection of screen shots of drugs for sale on Facebook and Instagram. So this is a typical example of an account. He has these obvious images of drugs. I think this looks like cocaine, Costco. That will hundreds of images showing piles of pills bags of meth and cocaine. Stacks, offend no patches in the photo caption or the top of the profile page would be all the information to buy the drugs and have them shipped to your house an activist named Eileen. Carey had sent me these files, I'm constantly hearing about people's problems with Facebook Instagram, and I think it's because I've been writing for so long about how bad the are with policing content. They hire thousands of people to review what we post online. But sometimes there are big terrifying. Gaps in enforcement Eileen had spotted a big one. A lean doesn't work for the police or the government or anything. She came across the issue through a work in cyber security and crisis management because in addition to the vacation picks and brand campaigns and celebrity posts Instagram is also a place where illegal drugs. And counterfeit prescription medicines sold, and it's all out in the open to find the stuff you just need to search for the right hashtag, hashtag zanex, hashtag thirty milligrams. Hashtag zanex bars hashtag causing haunted. Hashtag painkillers hashtag, Cody. Jakoda? Hashtag aid. This is the first episode in on UC's of decrypted dedicated to exploring how the tech industry is pushing the limits of the world around us today. We'll tell you about a leans fight to get Instagram and Facebook to take down posts showcasing drugs for sale despite the explosion of this type of content Facebook and Instagram have been slow to react choosing to push the limits of what it's uses and lawmakers would tolerate before taking action. I'm got Cari, and I'm Sarah Frier. And you're listening to decrypted. One day. I lean reached out to me on Twitter, and I agreed to meet her. It was a rainy day in December. And we talked for two hours straight on a couch at her co working space. I I grew up in Dobbs ferry New York. Same small three mile town is Mark Zuckerberg were the same age a lien had worked on Wall Street for a couple of years, then she moved to Silicon Valley. So I moved out here thinking I was going to work at Facebook or Google or one of those companies she ended up working for an anti-counterfeiting company. Basically it used technology to search the web for fake versions of its clients products. It was I lean job to make sure the public had no idea. Just how many fakes were out there. This problem of online counterfeits was somewhat knew it was twenty thirteen and the amount of stuff people were buying online was exploding and along with that the volume of fake goods being sold on the internet was. Exploding to I leans biggest client was the pharmaceutical company Purdue pharma, the company makes Oxycontin, a narcotic painkiller which we now know is incredibly addictive, I Leonardi knew about all the drugs being sold online. Because twenty thirteen was the year when the FBI shut down the notorious website cults silk road, alleging that it should become a massive online marketplace for buying and selling drugs and guns, but I lean discovered that there was another way for thousands of online sales to take place. It turns out that it wasn't just counterfeit prescription drugs like Oxycontin and Percocet, but all sorts of illegal street drugs that were being sold on Instagram. It is misinformation that drug sales happen in tirelessly on the dark web. Sure, maybe wholesale, right? Like, huge, huge shipments of of drugs, but direct to consumer purchases of. MDA of cocaine of Xanax that occurs on Instagram on Facebook. This problem is well known by experts in the space to put it. Bluntly, colossal issue. That's Daniel Bennett, the CEO of yellow brand protection. He works with some of the biggest brands in the world to help them. Keep fake products off the internet. Daniel explain that it's easier to block counterfeit goods when their fissile on an ecommerce website because you have to set up an account before you can sell anything with social networks. It's different with Instagram in particular, unlike Facebook, you don't have to use your personal identity to make an account. All you need is an Email address or a phone number networks core saw a generally more complex than say. For instance, online marketplaces, just pure just purely down the fact that oversee if you go soon. Online marketplace even know this commercial activity, you know, they something sale Megyn whereas searching on social media. You know, you're going to be finding a lot of sentiment. A lot of discussion about different products rule from following links through to online pharmacies whole all to online marketplaces where the actual sale would take place. Sales of drugs seem to be proliferating on all popular new tech platforms. Not just Facebook and Instagram you could find them on Craigslist, Google, Alibaba, and others pot of aliens job was to work with the tech companies to see if they would introduce policies to block the sale of drugs on that platforms out, Alibaba and Chinese ecommerce companies they were right there. They were right there for enforcing. They were great partners. They were working with the pharmaceutical companies to remove the counterfeits Eileen discovered that e commerce platforms were pretty open. To fighting contemplates. Craigslist was one of the early platforms to block listings about prescription drugs, Amazon and Alibaba have created brand registries, which is a way for brands to fos track. Their reports about fake items and get them taken down foster and Google has strict guidelines about what kinds of pharmaceuticals can be advertised on its platform, the social networks were less willing, so Eileen turn to people. She knew to try to understand why Facebook wasn't taking action. You actually knew Facebook employees at the time, and you were having this conversations with them directly. Yeah. And what was that like frustrating? The at at the time, it was the I mean, it's the same kind of book that we hear today of the you know, there's there's so much on the platform. We're really focused on terrorism. We're doing a, you know, that's that's what the the big problem is that it's free. Speech that if we start policing one thing, you know, we're going to have to police all these things alien became convinced the Facebook and Instagram where reluctant to act because they went legally required to do. So would I know is their legal team was very clear on their policy when we were working with them that no they were not going to proactively enforce against counterfeit pharmaceuticals Oxycontin Facebook for its pot said it has long-standing policies against attempts at buying selling or trading non-medical drugs. Pharmaceutical drugs or marijuana on Facebook and Instagram and today it says it's trying to make this type of content hot as a find. But one of the common arguments, I've heard is that at the time the company wanted to make sure it wasn't setting a precedent that could be damaging to its business. If it took down counterfeit. Rugs. For example. It might also have to police counterfeit handbags t shirts, jewelry and more. And it took the same approach to illegal drugs. They don't want to be held liable for anything. So it's very similar to arguments. You see about free speech and about how they aren't going to police free speech. They're not gonna take down. You know, hate speech legally Facebook was in the clear, that's because of a law from Nike ninety six called the Communications Decency. Act section two-thirty, essentially, it says that the tech platforms don't need to be held responsible for the content that users post on their sites. There was also a lawsuit from two thousand and eight that set an important precedent for the tech industry. Tiffany's jewelry brand had sued EBay arguing that the marketplace needed to be proactively taking down counterfeits on its platform. But the courts ruled in favor of EBay, I think the term is generalized knowledge EBay need more than. Simply generalized knowledge that it's platform was being used to sell counterfeit products. They head to know or had to have a reason to know that there was a specific list in that was counterfeit. That's Peter Colo. See he's a partner at the San Francisco law firm, Seidman and Bancroft and he specializes in anticounterfeiting. So when you talk about the Amazons or Facebook or Instagram. You know, they're all subject to this Tiffany V E bay liability requirement that as long as they have a process in place to deal with it. Then they're not going to be found to contribute to any trademark infringement of counterfeiting claim. At the end of twenty fourteen a lean left her job at the anti counterfeiting company. She decided to start a company of her own called glass braces, which makes software to empower women and technology, but she was haunted by the things she had learned while tracking counterfeits for Paducah and the opioid crisis seemed to be getting worse with every passing month, not just with counterfeits, but first a drug crisis in America today is killing more people each year than aids gun deaths or car crashes did at their peaks. We wanted to understand how the availability of drugs on major tech platforms was affecting communities hit hardest by the opioid crisis. So we talked to Jessica hail. She's an addiction counselor at awakenings counseling center in Merrillville, Indiana. And she said that she seeing social networks and multi play video games taking over as the simplest ways for her client. To buy drugs. She also said some unrelated developments in the medical community were causing even more people to turn to social media when they were looking for drugs, you know, nor Coser in Vanak say they're easily found that way. Actually, I think it's easier to find him that way because there's so many people that are getting cut off from their doctors that it's not as easy to get anymore and to find somebody on street is a lot harder. I think that the social media is just makes it a lot easier for them to find it if they if they really wanna take assigned it has this changed at all the relationship people have with a regular street dealer. Oh, yes. Yeah. It's it's pretty remarkable, you know, thirty and forty years ago. It wasn't anything, you know, people would find their their drugs by one person that was their dealer. And and but now, it's it's just like an advertisement all the social sites. Makes it really easy. You could literally spend twenty minutes on the computer if you were seeing trying to find some drugs in you could get 'em. It just have to keep going through the different sites in. It's just out there. It was sobering. To hear from Jessica technology, and the internet was making it easier than ever for people to buy and sell drugs. Jessica told us that people she was counseling could now just get drug sent to them in the mail and disappearing messages like the sort stat Chad is famous for allow people to advertise when they have drugs for sale. The message only stays up for twenty four hours. So it's pretty hard to get caught. That's what I'm finding is that that stamp chat thing is is is tiny. So it doesn't stay up to locking up to draw ever attention. It's reaching the people that it needs to but debating some of the other people while at ninety more. Are more easy to track even on on Instagram or Facebook? It's harder to track on these new platforms like snap. And and the video games sports. Right. Oh, yeah. I don't know a lot about forty nine. I do know that it's an online gaming system. And my niece does play that. In her boyfriend was able to connect with people that would hook up in you know, trade, sell or whatever it's easier easily do without getting caught some speed. It's it's there for a second. And then it moves on conversation snap said in a statement that it's completely prohibited to use nap chat for any illegal activities and that accounts selling drugs are an intentional abuse of the company's tens of service. It added that such account so removed when they're reported and epic games, which makes the game foot night declined to comment. In the meantime, alien had started searching, proactively fa- counterfeit drugs for sale on Instagram and was reporting them to the company. This phenomenon for a few years. Eileen said cheap reported tons of violating accounts that were very obviously showcasing drugs for sale, Instagram's content moderators either didn't respond or Eileen would get these generic acknowledgments saying the post was reporting weren't violating any of their rules. We saw the screen shots. The crisis got worse. And it got worse. And it got worse. I would go in it would open the app, and I would report on like three to four like drug dealers, and I would document everything, and it just nothing was changing nothing was changing. Business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes they want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP green lake pay per use outcomes on your terms, come to HP, green lake and see the future of IT. Get there at HP dot com slash green lake. Eventually the FDA started speaking publicly about the role tech companies were playing in the opioid crisis last year in April Scott Gottlieb, who was the FDA Commissioner at the time cold out Facebook and Instagram by name along with some of the other lodge tech foams, he called on the companies to do a better job of monitoring illegal opioid sales being advertised on that platforms, and he called for a change of mindset across the industry. The FDA told us that approximately ninety six percent of online pharmacies selling prescription medicines. US consumers are illegal. The FDA. Also said it screens thousands of parcels at international mail facilities and has taken action against dozens of websites. Marketing unimproved opioids in an effort to combat the crisis. Meanwhile, around twenty seventeen and into twenty eighteen Facebook started to be criticized for all sorts. Lots of content specific issues from violent videos that would go viral to fake news spread by Russian-backed groups ahead of the US presidential election ailing wanted why isn't anyone at the company doing anything still about the sale of drugs on Instagram in an effort to get noticed? She started messaging Facebook executives on Twitter one day. Someone finally responded. It was guy Rosen a VP at Facebook in charge of figuring out how to automate a lot of the companies content decisions. He had sent her a direct message Eileen showed me screen shots of their conversation. She wrote do a search for hashtag sentinel as well as hashtag Oxy's on. I g and you'll see lots of picks of pills. Those accounts are usually drug dealers. I reported these earlier in they're still there and the hashtag opiates search. They are forty three thousand results Eileen also sent examples of the kinds of Instagram post. She was talking about guy wrote back. Back to her Jags. He said, this is super helpful. Finally, five years after she first started badgering, Facebook and Instagram someone was paying attention. The sociable hashtags would take down one day before mauka book testified in front of congress about data privacy, issues and Russian election interference. Towards the end of two thousand eighteen a handful of counties in the regions hit hardest by the opioid crisis reported that that had been in decline in overdose deaths in recent months, we off Jessica the addiction counselor in Indiana. Whether she thought that action by the social media companies could have helped. Of course, it would be useful. But I don't know that it would be successful drug dealers could seeking or you know, individuals seeking substances. They always find a way around dissertation. So these kids just re up on a different site under a different name. You know, one of my clients have got four different Facebook. I can be. So when one gets shut down this goes through to another then at some point the hashtags that Aline had helped to block went back up. We're not sure why those hashtags became available again. But by then people seem to be making new hashtags. Anyway, presumably to get around the fact that some popular ones have been blocked the other day, I was able to find drugs for sale under misspellings, the drug names like Oxycontin, spelled COTR. And I noticed a lot of comments about drugs for sale under pictures of drugs that people might have actually been prescribed. When I was looking I found I was being redirected to information about recovery and support groups, so actually helpful content and sometimes but not all the time when I tried searching for drug related hashtags. I would get an automated message from Instagram asking if I needed any help that's relatively new feature. That was rolled out in the fall. Facebook also said it has been using computer imaging technology to find and remove drug content before anyone sees it. It's part of a new goal to rely on more artificial intelligence for content moderation the company's singled out, hate speech violence and graphic content as specific areas where it has seen some improvement. Today. Allen doesn't use Instagram or Facebook. She says it causes her anxiety to even think about it. She was clearly deeply moved in also emotionally drained by this experience of caring about something. Nobody else really seems to be paying attention to. It's so frustrating to know that nothing is being done. And so I couldn't I couldn't keep doing it. I couldn't keep reporting to them about it because there's no direct line. So there's no way to actually get in touch with people there and be. It's kind of hopeless if the people at the company don't care about it. I lean once the executives at Facebook and Instagram to face consequences. I think that the there has been true progress on this because nobody at Instagram is in a criminal court proceeding. If the founder of the silk road is in jail for drug trafficking. Why do social media companies that are making billions of dollars get a free pass to allow and again like support the trafficking of illegal narcotics that are killing us. We tried to talk to an executive from Facebook about this issue, but they declined our request for an interview. Meanwhile, Facebook CEO, Sheryl Sandberg was actually asked about the company's responsibility. When it comes to drug sales in a congressional hearing in September. It was a question from Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia Mark question to be I've heard he made a direct link between section two-thirty that law which says platforms not responsible for what uses post and the number of people overdosing on illegal drugs to what extent Uber responsibility for the death of a drug user if they overdosed on drugs received through your platform. Either one. I know. This is really important to us. The opioid crisis has been devastating and takes the lives of people in our country and around the world. It's firmly against our policies to buy or sell any pharmaceuticals on Facebook and that includes opioid drugs. We rely on a combination of machines and people reporting to take things down. And I think we've seen market improved Sheryl Sandberg. Didn't really answer the senators question and neither did CEO Mark Zuckerberg. When West Virginia congressman David McKinley asked about it during a separate appearance before congress year ago. So my question to you is win or you gonna stop take down these posts there's done ill on with the legal digital pharmacies. When are you gonna take them down congressman right now when people report the post us, we will take them down and have people they had to if you've got all these twenty thousand people, you know, that they're up there. Where's your require? Where's your account? Ability to allow this to be occurring this ravaging this country. Congressman I agree that this is a terrible issue and respectfully when they're tens of billions or one hundred billion pieces of content that are shared every day even twenty thousand people reviewing it can't look at everything. But we need to do is build more AI tools that can proactively on four you're going to take him down. And you haven't. So Sara, you've spent months reporting this story, and I'm curious what do you make of mauka Beck's argument that Facebook needs AI tools to be able to monitor content about drugs and other things. Well, I do think Facebook wants to delve into this issue with a, but it's very slow going, and it's never going to be perfect. The other thing I would note is if you are at the head of Facebook and Facebook is your flagship product and Instagram is the smaller product, and this is an issue that is maybe more specific to Instagram. It just may not seem like V priority for investing AI tools in we've seen Facebook. Invest in counter-terrorism we've seen them invest in guns. We've seen them invest in hate speech because of that genocide fan mar that was that was perpetuated by post on Facebook. But so far though. We've seen some change. I haven't seen a mobile as Asian on a legal drugs. The way I've seen on this other issues yet, and it's hard to understand that. Because when you think about how deadly the opioid crisis has been in the US, it's in a way, you might ask what issue is that? It's the could be more urgent. What do you think the chances that the government might force Facebook by some new regulations to take more action on this for the first time in a very longtime politicians feel like they can be outspoken and critical of tech companies? I think you're right. But it's one of the only bipartisan issues in congress right now is to critique tech companies about how terrible they are losing content. But you know, I've listened to those hearings and everyone has their different pet issue that they cared deeply about the senators from West Virginia care about this issue. But other senators care more about bias against conservatives or against liberals, others care more about discrimination and adds others. For more about the lives shooting like the one we recently experienced in New Zealand. I haven't seen a coalition to come together. I think the best chance we have. And what we've seen is the FDA come down hard on this until companies they need to get their act together. Scott Gottlieb has been a force on this. But he just left the FDA. So I'm not sure if the next leadership is going to be as on top of this issue. Hopefully, they are. Well, I know you'll keep reporting on this very very important issue. So thanks for sharing your reporting with us, Sarah. And that's it for this week's episode of decrypted, thanks for listening. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, the department of health and human services has a twenty four hour national helpline where you can find information and treatment referral. The number is one eight hundred six six to H E L P. And if you have a story to share you can reach me on Twitter, I'm at their fryer. And I'm at got Cari, and please help us spread the word about on UC's in by leaving us a rating or a review wherever you like to. Listen this episode was produced by car and Lindsey Kratovo. Our story editor was Emily view. So thank you also to an Banda me Akihito and Brad stone as well as Liz Smith, Magnus Henriksson and tofu foreheads Francesca. Levy is head of Bloomberg podcast. We'll see you next week. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as service. Visit H P E dot com slash green lake to learn more.

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Is Your Amazon Habit Wrecking the Planet?

Decrypted

22:59 min | 1 year ago

Is Your Amazon Habit Wrecking the Planet?

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise Introducing H. P. E. Green. Lake a new way to consume. It as a service visit H P dot com slash green lake to learn more on a recent afternoon here in our newsroom in San Francisco. Sarah can ambush you you for seconds. I walked around with a mic and they asked everyone about their online shopping habits wondering if you buy things online I do. I buy most of my stuff online. These days yeah we just recently started using Amazon prime for all of our grocery deliveries. It's so much easier considering. We have a baby at home and can rarely leave the house specifically. I was curious if people thought about the carbon emissions from all their deliveries. Have you ever worried about the environmental. Impact we do actually yeah there was a there was an interesting discussion in our neighborhood's nextdoor and and if they felt guilty about it what do you what do you think what do you do about that concern every time just how many delivery he's estimate you get a week or three eighty five a week that's quite an we get ally yeah. My wife probably does more should actually my wife definitely does more shopping than I do but but I do a little bit and and have you guys worried about the carbon emissions of all those yeah totally totally. We worry about it a lot but not enough to like. Stop just like like me. We're total hypocrites. Total hypocrite that you just heard is our executive editor. Tom Giles and I think the sentiment he expressed is familiar to a lot of us. Amazon makes billions of shipments a year involving planes and ships trucks and cars amid middle lot of carbon dioxide today in the show. We're taking you inside a group of Amazon employees who unlike me and Tom. Actually did something about their concern. The abandoned together and they try to publicly pressure their employer to do more to fight climate change and with the help type of a professor who studied this very issue well. Let's see if getting everything delivered to US could eventually with the right decisions become a good thing for the environment airman. I'm Akihito. You're listening to decrypted. Stay with US says Spencer. Can you introduce yourself. I'm Spencer Soper and I'm a technology reporter with Bloomberg indispensable. You've been covering Amazon for many years. Now wanted this issue of the environment start popping up in your reporting. Amazon's environmental impact has been an issue since I started here covering Amazon in two thousand fourteen its environmental effects have always been top of mind because everyone gets packages from Amazon and sometimes they come in very big boxes and of their voice been concerns about waste this issue whether it's waste or the carbon emissions missions has it been longstanding concern for the people who work in Amazon yes so people who work at Amazon have been worried about this for for a number of years and it seems like it's been an issue that's kind of come up here and there and so people have done things like right six page papers on Amazon's environmental impacts hoping to get the company to do a little more or they've presented ideas at these think big events where Amazon tries to get the employees to share their big ideas things that can guide their business into the future and nothing really accomplished anything so in two thousand eighteen a group of employees started looking at it more seriously and a galvanizing moment comment at that time was when they started looking at what other companies were doing companies like DHL or Google and they learned that Amazon Zahn was falling pretty far shy of its competitors in terms of being proactive about its environmental impacts so that coalesced in the employee's getting getting together to file a shareholder resolution fair listeners he don't know what is this your resolution so Amazon employees so so our shareholders and shareholder resolution is a process by which anyone who owns shares of a company can present an idea to officially be voted on by other their shareholders to basically send a message to the company what's important to the people who owned the company. We should note that a shareholder resolution is non-binding rate. It's basically kind of a way to shame accompanies executives. I guess it's a way to apply public pressure. Yes definitely a way to apply public pressure and call all attention to an issue seeing it on other things like gender diversity and and racial diversity those sorts of things what did this particular resolution call for it was pretty broad but basically called on Amazon to create a comprehensive plan to take more steps to address climate change and and to reduce its effects on climate change okay so a group of Amazon employees decide to very publicly call for Amazon to do more to fight Climate Mitch change what happens next so a shareholder resolution coming from Amazon employees extremely rare they tend to keep problems within the family and don't discuss them publicly and then afterward Emily Cunningham who is promoting this effort employee effort within Amazon sent is an email to her colleagues trying to explain herself like this is why climate change is important to me. This is why I felt it was important to present this resolution and she asked any colleagues who felt similarly similarly to to join her in signing the resolution and one of her colleagues who got that e mail was Marin. Kosta name is Myron Kosta and my title. Is this principle user experience designer so Marin is a US designer who has been working at Amazon for several years. She's a mother and she's concerned learned about the environment especially Amazon's impact on the environment and it's something that she's felt personally conflicted about herself so when the e mail arrived in her inbox this was an issue she immediately wanted to get involved with and I wrote back immediately and just said Oh my God this is amazing. I've been sitting here by myself. Alf Feeling frustrated and futile so I immediately signed so they filed the shareholder resolution in December over and it immediately got the attention of Amazon senior management and in January the employees meet with Amazon senior leadership we we asked them to release data about our carbon footprint. We asked them for a date on when we would be carbon or one hundred percent renewable energy and they refuse to give both but they did agree in that initial meeting not to challenge our resolution and allow it to go on the ballot for a vote online retail giant Amazon plans to make half of its shipments carbon neutral by twenty thirty in February Amazon announced Amazon enchantment zero. which is this pledge to reduce carbon emissions with a goal of reducing them by fifty percent by twenty thirty Amazon employees thought this was obviously an effort to try to appease appease them and recognize concerns about Amazon's carbon footprint? What's kind of the group's reaction to to project six zero more sweeping the floors while the house is burning down a bucket of water on a forest fire rearranging deck chairs on Catan? Whatever you want to say it's not enough. We need a date. We're still behind. We're still way behind shortly. After that announcement. The Amazon employees are once again called into a meeting with Amazon leadership and they were asked if they'd be willing to to withdraw their proposal since Amazon was now moving in their direction of addressing climate change so we said we would withdraw unless we could get a date. We still didn't have date by when we would be one hundred percent renewable. That's something that was important to the -ployees was just like okay. Let's just pose this question and and force a vote on it so that everyone has to go on record on on where they stand so Amazon has has its annual shareholder meeting in May doesn't in Seattle and there's always a smorgasbord of protesters there airing grievances about Amazon the big addition this year were the employees climate change protesters and so you had this large contingent of Amazon employees they were dressed in white t shirts to show uh-huh solidarity they had signs and things calling for Amazon to dress climate change in a big difference was because many of these Amazon employees are actual actual shareholders is that these protesters got into the room cutting. Hamill now interviews a shareholder proposal requesting a report on climate taste is one of the employees stood up Emily Cunningham and she actually like it was kind of traumatic moment actually called for Jeff Bezos to come out and hear her speak I think he he did not he was still in the in the back. He comes out and give a presentation but he's not there for the entire shareholder meeting each remembering how and she basically laid eight out the employees concerns and why they were proposing this this petition. Emily asked the employees that were there to stand up but but also many other people just non employees. Just shareholders stood up in support. Some people were even crying. You know oh it was it was really it was a really powerful moment so the shareholder proposal went down at gained about out thirty percent support from Amazon shareholders was which wasn't sufficient but it was a still a pretty big number and it really encouraged the employees employees that they were able to reach such a high watermark in terms of support so after the vote the meeting room clears out and the employees basically group together standing beneath wonder banners and they spoke to the to the media without bold rapid action. We will lose our only chance to avoid catastrophic warming. There's no issue more important to who our customers or our world then the climate crisis and we are falling too far short Jeff bezos. Can you see children learn who might have drowned towns thriving that might have burned species swimming that might have been lost forever. How will we tell our children do feel like Marin and her group. Were able to accomplish something that people before weren't able to accomplish. Yes I mean they were able to demonstrate that. There's a significant movement within the company that a lot of people are are uncomfortable. We have a tight labor market. A A lot of these jobs are extremely hard for companies like Amazon to fine people for and hire them for and so if people feel like their other companies where they can work and feel more comfortable people about their place in society. If that companies doing more to protect the environment they can very easily jumped ship and go to those jobs so this is something that Amazon is to consider from a employee retention standpoint which is which is an extremely important for for the tech industry We'll be right back okay so before the break we heard about a group of Amazon employees who are pressuring their company's doing better for the planet planet and it begs the question how bad is Amazon because the alternative to Amazon into e commerce more broadly is all of us driving individually to the store and that's also bad for the planet and to answer that Question Spencer you talk to an expert. Yes I met with an a good child. She's a professor at the University of Washington in Amazon's hometown of Seattle so it's the last thing so I think cat callers catcalled yes so we have these two cats oh caller caller caller from Ontario and it's interesting because this project for her began as a question that probably a lot of other people have asked themselves. I think think we started in two thousand ten. It was actually a couple of studies at Grad student and I were both using grocery delivery services and just had a personal interest in trying to understand understand what that meant for transport and emissions started from her guilty conscience like the rest of us exactly equivalent guilty conscience and and a question and the question was a good one because theoretically shopping on Amazon could be a good thing if you live on a cul the sack with twenty homes and all of those people go to the supermarket once a week. Maybe they go the COSCO twice a month and you add up all of those vehicle trips if you could replace place all of those vehicle trips with one weekly a truck trip through the neighborhood to all of those homes delivering all of those things then you're actually burning less fossil fuel then that's a that's a more efficient way to get the products to those people are existing. Assisting model is not very efficient from an energy or traffic standpoint. If if that basic model is you get in the car you drive to the restore. You drive home again. That's not hard to be so so does he get in your car. I drive home realized progress back drive on yes especially. I was GONNA make. Fun of my husband shouldn't do go. It's all so there is a possibility that by utilizing ECOMMERCE more. You're actually helping the planet. That's the theory in practice. The exact opposite happens so there's many things that are road the benefits of that what sort of idealized delivery service concept one of those is that you have multiple players so if we have the year four companies doing a similar thing to have four different trucks in your neighborhood instead of potentially one another one. Is this idea really fast delivery times the if you're delivering and you do it once a week versus. If you do it every day you can squish more stuff into a bigger truck and have a lower your costs and lower carbon dioxide footprint so that pressure to deliver more quickly is also eroding the potential benefits and we're talking about just carbon emissions from the transportation right. It doesn't include things like packaging yeah. We're not even talking about packaging now. We're simply talking talking about the consumption of fossil fuels so the way we're moving suggests that we're actually not capturing those consolidation and benefits of a delivery service and I'm sure that right now we have increased travel demand through online shopping into the services or so. What's the bottom line. If you were to think of right now is it all of these companies that are bringing stuff to you. Versus you go onto the store or is it better for the environment worse for the environment or wash tourist mind mentors yeah. This is remember how I went around our office and made everyone. I feel bad about their online shopping. Yeah they all love you for that. You given what and told us. It sounds like we should indeed feel bad about about it that the nagging guilt we feel is actually warranted yes warranted and especially if you shop very frequently you should feel even worse if we're unwilling to forgo the convenience despite all of this is there anything we can do to minimize our impact on the environment. Yes yes so you can be a mindful online shopper and the main step would be to consolidate your orders. Maybe rather than having several individual packages could just come to your door through the week if you can you know load up your cart and make one order each week. That's the kind of thing individual consumers can do to to decrease the environmental impact. Let's say just Basil's wakes up tomorrow. He says yes employees. I heard you loud and clear and we're going to take this issue head on. What are what are some changes. Amazon could make a breakdown to to soften its so I think one thing thing they have to do is think about you know the incentives that they're currently using which are are pretty bread butter for their business strategy or also encouraging people people to to use these delivery services without much consciousness. it's very easy to your almost encouraged to use the services that way and not really feel like you're paying for them. Get it now tomorrow today and it's like the default think the fastest free one. There needs to be some intentional thought in you know are we encouraging people to to use fast and frequent deliveries so is Amazon moving in that direction so oh Amazon announced at the end of the first quarter that they'd be spending money on one day shipping they definitely feeling the pressure from from stores and a a lot of these other options people have where you can order something online from say Walmart or target and then go and pick it up at the store that day and so in in an earnings this call in July analysts. Were very interested to know hey what's going on with next day delivery can you give us any updates and the CFO Brian Asaf Ski. Actually he said that it's going very well. It did cost a little bit more but what they're finding is by narrowing the delivery promise to one day. They're picking up a lot more sales that that people are are more engaged and they're willing to buy more things on Amazon but given everything that and told us one day shipping is exactly the opposite of what Emma's I should be doing. If it really cared about the environment a one day delivery pledge for the last minute need is GonNa make the shopping habits probably only get only get worse for the Environment Arment so spencer. What does Amazon say about all this well. Amazon says that reducing the human impacts of climate change is important into the company and they have teams dedicated to it. They actually mentioned one project. They're working on where they're trying to develop scientific models to map the carbon footprint and look for opportunities as to to reduce it they also said that they're going to release more information about their company-wide carbon footprint and their goals and programs later under this year. Spencer by the way is Amazon doing anything to reduce the packaging waste from other deliveries things like the cardboard boxes because it seems like that's the thing that everyone's concerned about yeah and it can be inconvenient to and that stuff piles up. They do have technology in their warehouses. Is that tries to optimize the size of the box for the package but you still hear from people who you know order a set of headphones end up with a box the size of the the trunk of a car and what's next for Marin and her group. We'll even though they're shareholder. Resolution went down in the spring. The Amazon employees is continue to meet and are still active on this issue. They actually have a plan walkout coming up on September twenty more than nine hundred employees are planning to leave leave their jobs at Amazon for the day this would be both in Seattle and around the world and this is for them to participate in what's known as global climate strike where people at various companies and various countries are urging one another to show solidarity on the issue of climate change by by walking out of work on that day EH Spencer Sober. Thanks for the story today. Thanks are decrypted is produced by me. Akihito Ethan Brooks. Thanks emily an inventor. May Are Story Editors. Francesca Levy is the head of Bloomberg podcast. We'll see you next week. decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise introducing introducing H. P. E. Green Lake a new way to consume I._T. As a service visit H. P. E. dot com slash green lake to learn more.

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EP47: Infertility & Sexual Assault

Let's Talk About It with Taylor Nolan

1:07:52 hr | 2 years ago

EP47: Infertility & Sexual Assault

"Hello, welcome to. Let's talk about it with Taylor Nolan. I am your host and sound much more put together right now than I really am today's an interesting day for me, but I'm so happy to be here to talk about mental, how this episode with the wonderful stare, who is a local business owner here in Seattle, and she owns a letter press shop and is just amazing. We start off as Instagram friends, and then I was just like, I realize this lady and I love her all her letters and her cards, and just the level of authenticity that you bring to not only the store but also like your instrument presence. So I'm so happy to be here today with you, and thank you so much for Wien years there. Of course they're really excited. Yes. And I mean, I just wanna start off with like, how has it your day Ben. Sounds like a little less crazy than yours we. Yeah. I will say I kind of ran into my shop today, like a whirlwind and had to follow guys to my staff do they came. I'm having a bit of a weird mental Health Day, so it's not about you. I'm not like obsessing over no messy piles or wanting to clean things because you did anything wrong. I'm just having a day. Yeah. Yeah, you know, sometimes you just have to be transparent people you do, and I'm like, great communication even have, especially within the workplace. I think a lot of people don't have that. So I mean you already like you'd be a wonderful boss to have just with that level of transparency because I think in a lot of situations like people are going to work in, their boss would like be acting out and be like, you know. Whatever they'd be doing and no explanation. And then people think it's about them and they feel like they're to blame if you're just like, yeah, no, don't worry. It's not about you having today some learning for all day by day, sometimes painfully all. I'll share a little bit about my day today and why it was a little stressful. I went. So I have a few days until I leave for trip, and I was like, you know, I'm going to be responsible woman and so I went to try to get Pap smear done, and I've never had one before. Yeah. Don't have health insurance. I was like, where do I go? And I was like, oh, Planned Parenthood. Okay. So when I experienced there and then I found out after waiting for a long time that you can't have a Pap smear done on your period. So then there was also that I was at my period this morning, and I was like, okay, now I've wasted like an hour nap time and then trying to get here early to be like, I'm prepared. You know, I'm professional lake. I'm putting out there and it just did not work out that way. Then I ended up having a call that I did not wanna have and didn't feel I was listened to. And then there was no parking and then my phone was dying. And then I ended up just going back to my house and taking the monorail and all in all made it here, you know, and everything's fine. But all throughout all of that was just so emotional and like a lot of negative self talk that I was trying to. Manage from. Sure. You're not unfamiliar with, I know. Well, yes, yes, yes. Sometimes you just gotta share with people. You're just having a mental Health Day, and I'm glad that you communicated that to your staff today and so much easier when things aren't going well to just be really honest because then everybody else is with you make them like I was excited to see that you made it here because I'm having a time. I think if you would just like strolled up in a bad mood like, oh God, she doesn't really wouldn't interview tangible being really honest invulnerable and like I was having a similar day. So I'm here with you feel for you and excess everything off on the right foot. Nothing think we all wanna have it together and golf, a really clear idea of what that should look like. And none of us do single person that does not for very long. Yes, he might be a minute and then life old Cecchi real quick. Yes. And anything that's part of why both of us on our platforms like watching courage, people to just be be vulnerable, be transparent. You know, the honest about where you're at, because then it could lead to feeling great like this. Like definitely in the back of my head. I'm like, oh my God. She's gonna think I'm so uncomfortable and like unprofessional, and this is so terrible and I'm so embarrassed. But then I'm like, if I'm just open, honest about that, like I don't. I don't actually feel any of those things and I'm just like, I'm so happy that we're both here and that we're both able to do this together some Louis. So it works out. So I wanna get a little bit into like, there are so many parts of your story that I don't know. But the bits and pieces that I do now, I love so much if you guys don't follow her, you should. It's constellation cow, right? And you have some letters here that I definitely want to get into. But I, I mean, where did this whole journey? The leg of. Begin. Gosh, that's very open ended. Yeah, I, let's see. Let me fast forward and try to pick a time. I'm not gonna start from birth. Yeah. I mean, the way that I got into designing greeting cards was basically got out of college in two thousand nine graduated with a graphic design degree, and I couldn't get a job and moved to Seattle with my fiance, and we were unemployed for a while and really struggled and eventually got a job at Microsoft moved to Seattle. I your contract which helped us this day in a place to live rent, and I really struggled, and I, I'm very, very determined and persistent and type a and it was very driven in college and always overachieved always doing the most. And when I graduated and things didn't fall into place for me, it it kind of wrecked, my sense of self. Yeah, in a totally. So instead of getting a job, which is what you always dream of out of school, you'll get a chance. Yeah. What are you going to be now? Are you gonna wear. I did a year long apprenticeship. Tilden's me a letter, press printer, which was a really cool experience very different than what I expected. Yeah. But it gave me a set of skills that I could work with, and I started my own business and which like is amazing. Yeah. I was ashamed of that for really long time because it wasn't. It wasn't like I set out with a goal to start a business, and I started on. I was like, I had nothing to do with my time and I was fillet Ling. And so I started doing anything I could do to make a dollar and built a business from there, and I'm ten years in which is a big deal. Yeah. But also it took me a long time to feel. To feel like I did something that it wasn't just a reaction to my circumstances. Yeah. So I think that's kind of. Gosh, it's been such a journey to be the face of my company because I do have a team of five people right now. So I'm not the only person than what we do, but I am the face of it and all of my experiences and there are many and they have been very difficult at times, but all of them make up who we are as a company because what we write about for these greeting cards are not what you get homework. They are about mental health and grief and struggle, and some of them are really ridiculous and silly, but really where my heart is is to write cards for circumstances that there are not cards for because sometimes no one knows what to say. There's so many hard circumstances. No one has the right words. So trying to craft the words that I would wanna hear in a tough time. Yeah, has kind of driven me to keep to keep writing tissue those things. Yeah. And it's it's hard because I think so many people struggle with not. Not knowing what to say and wanting to say the right thing or wanting to one say the best thing. And sometimes there isn't that, and I feel like even your cards make that feel okay. And I actually on a recent flight I watched as probably why it's stuck in my head. Now it's one of my favorite movies, five hundred as a summer. The good one. Yeah, where he's he works as a greeting card company and he's like, we're selling people lie. And you're doing this little opposite. He was loved to work with your company. Yeah, that movie lot for that reason. Kind of funny. Yeah, it's a weird job to have. It's a weird job to tell someone else that I have. Yeah, but it's something I'm really, really grateful for. Yeah, and something that like I mean, you're very good. Like I've given several cards to friends. And even family members as well. And like it feels so much more personal to me like it doesn't just feel like, you know. I stopped it hallmark and just found a cue card and. Tried to shove it in the envelope, Simon aim, and I'm like, you're like, if heels, very personal and I feel like I'm actually able to like connect with people when I when I give it to them and and I think it's, it's, it's a whole other layer of empathy that you express three your cards that I really appreciate. Thank you. We should read. So people know what we're talking about here. Yeah. And they range from like all different kinds of topics to which I love literally. Like this, like love this one things have been rough lately. I don't always know how to thank you for all the ways you care about me, but please know that I've carried your encouraging words with me as I walked through some dark places, you're empathy and kindness, make difference in my life. Thank you. So several people I want to send this to. All right. Yeah, and that's where they'll come from. I mean, I right almost everything. I'm such a such a nerd, but I write in a sketchbook with a fountain pen. Like I like the old school way and everything gets written out in a moment where I have strong emotions and I close the book on them and I push it away and ignore them for a while. And then I go back through my notebook and start to pull out the strands of things that I think will be good to share that. I think people will want to say to others. They come from a place like I felt that strongly. Yeah, and and I then feel it when I read it, I want you to read this on. No matter what the ugly voices inside might be saying. Let me be the one to tell you the truth. You are loved, you're worthy. You're not a burden. I hope all of you hear that all of you that are listening right now. It will be here. It. We will get there no matter how long it takes or how many road blocks we encounter. I know we'll get through this one step at a time brick by brick sun up and sundown. We'll get there together. Lays your maybe wannacry. 'cause there's no good. There's so good. It's really encouraging to me to see people respond well to them because they're not. None of them are something I sat down like I need to make some money and some of them cards that will appeal to the people like every single card. Like hearing you read them. I remember exactly what I was thinking when these words came together and exactly the conversations I was having and and all of the life experiences I went through to get to that place where I could say that to myself unto someone else. Yeah, and they are hard-fought. There's a lot of blood, sweat and tears. They're real things so it's it's nice to see them resonate. Yeah, of any of the three that we that we've read, do you wanna share backstory on. Yeah. We will get there is something that my staff and my husband and I all started saying to each other, there was a really tough season. It's going to get into like life things, life things are real bad. Yeah. So just to kind of like pave the story a little bit. Some of my story is I've been through infertility and I'm an adoptive mom. So I've been through the adoption process and. With my team. We've had a lot going on a lot for everybody because that's life has ongoing. And one of the members of my team had been fighting cancer for a really long time, and there are so many things we wanted to do for the business, and just even my husband and I in our life that we've been talking about and things that we were like, really want to get to that point. And we just started saying, we will get there. We will get there and it was just like mantra that all of did together because it wasn't like it wasn't focused on what we couldn't accomplish today. It was focused on the place we're trying to get to. And one of the members of my team actually is a therapist which is so helpful. Works part time. It is also there could God, we all need that we need that massage therapist. Things we really need. And she was sharing with me that one of her mentors, it was brick by brick was what they, they told each other and that like there's so many things like that conversations where I don't know if you've experienced that, but every time you talk to somebody for a month, certain threads will be going through every conversation and it just feels like this ongoing thing where you're like, is the universe train at? Tell me. Like what is happening and. Gosh, there's just so many things like that, like I could get into the details, but just about everything in my life that just felt like a season of waiting and being patient while things work each work themselves out. Yeah. And that that idea of we will get there just was so important to everybody in my life. Yeah, that period of time, God, I am loving this conversation with these era. Honestly, I do want to take a little bit of a break just because I love sharing with listeners about different products, and I'm finding that I'm really enjoying and I'm always getting questions about my hair and unfortunately Harris like so near and dear to us, and we put so much value on it, but they can often be like difficult to actually find products that really work. And so I found living proof which is actually created by scientists. So it's not just like marketing gimmicks like they are serious about finding the problem in creating a scientific solution. It's seriously legit and they actually within their products, they do all this without using silicones or pear. Bins or any of those like nasty chemicals that we don't want our products, their dry shampoo is amazing. It actually cleans your hair like I would go rollerblade at green lake, shout out my satellites and afterwards, like I would dry shampoo and my hair actually feels clean like it's not just masking oil or sweat. It removes all of them completely. And my hair felt clean and fresh, and I was ready to go about the rest of my day. I would love for you guys able to check them out and experienced this, and I really want you guys to do it. I did and make this which to improve by name living proof dot com. Slash Taylor and use promo code Taylor to get a free sample of their award winning dry shampoo with your purchase. Honestly, my favorite product that's living proof dot com. Slash Taylor promo code Taylor for free sample of dry shampoo with your purchase living proof dot com. Slash Taylor promo code Taylor, but. Back to the show now I've got, I've I've had. So I've had multiple people Email asking about an infertility episode and saying that that'd be a topic that they would want me to discuss. And I have a friend here who works as a infertility doctor believe what she refers to herself house who helps women work on their for Tilleke and definitely wanna get her on an episode, but I imagine that that makes total sense the waiting and the not knowing when it comes to infertility, and then also through that. Phase or season of going through the option process as well, like the brick by brick sunup sundown, like I can totally see where it just kind of having that as a little bit of a mantra can help like sit with that the weight. I think one of the things about infertility that nobody talks about is that you no longer have control. And the option processes a lot like that too. There's just you have no control and I don't do well with those thing. Yeah, I'm learning like the world and my life have taught me a lot of lessons about that, but. There's so many other so many lies that you hear. There's so much self talk that gets so ugly because you start to question like, who am I as a woman? If I can't, if my body can't create lifelike? Is that not part of what everyone thinks of when they think of being a woman and you get into a room with a lot of other moms? And now that I'm a mom too, there's a certain aspect of belong, I feel, but it always he always get down the road till everyone wants to talk about their birth story and for my son, like his birth stories very different than than my friends, and it's still beautiful. And it still a day that I will never forget, but it's wildly different than what other people are talking about and you, you just have all of these these feelings of like, am I am I whole woman? I is there some reason that my body doesn't do this other than medical like is there some, you know, I. Think you can probably imagine all the things that your brain could tell you like my not meant to be a mom out going to be a good mom and my disappointing, my husband and my. Is there's something about this experience that I'm missing out on that. That that is. Worth grieving, and it is. It is because anything in your life that you imagined or that you believed you'd have day that that you realize you can't have is is difficult abso it's difficult to talk about you still I, I've been. Let's see. You were unlike six years that I've been going through infertility and I don't want to have a baby at this point. I have my beautiful son is almost four and my business, and I'm busy, hell busy. So I'm not like sitting around in hoping and waiting anymore. Not in that phase, but it's still part of my life and part of my story, and I still gets triggered sometimes when I'm least expect it grief that struggle and. Yeah, it is. It is. It's wise sought therapy in the first place. Because the two years that I went through infertility before we started the adoption process where some of the hardest of my life where I felt the most is connected. The most misunderstood. And the most lonely because my husband did not understand and can't understand. Yeah, and I don't expect him to perfectly understands it way better now than used to. But I hadn't really. There was really no one I could go to to talk about it, and I got a lot of really bad advice on people like saying really hurtful things because it was uncomfortable and they didn't know what to say. So people in there won't address it until saying nothing which is awkward and uncomfortable and not great, or they'll say something really like dismissive that makes you feel like what I'm going through is an important to anybody, but me. Yeah. So it's just it's a crazy time. And you know if you're going through that out there in the Landau listening to this right now, like you are certainly not alone. And one thing I learned is that the more I shared what was going on, it was honest about it. The more people came out of the woodwork, like it was almost every day like I would share something Instagram or wherever else. And people would like flood my DM's like I'm going through this to the only person that's talking about it, and it just meant so much to me to know. People were just afraid they were afraid to talk about it. There's still a big stigma. Infertility? Yeah. I was gonna say, I feel like I can imagine that there's a lot of shame surrounding infertility, especially with all those kinds of thoughts that you shared. Like those urges filled with shame and when you don't when you don't speak that and when you don't. Give light to that. You're just feeding it. And it's a really scary step to feel like, oh my God, I'm about to like really show myself and feels like I wanna crawl out of my skin, but I'm so happy to hear that people met you at that. And I feel like a theme that I say every episode or that a guest says every episode and I hope that listeners aren't tired of hearing it like, okay, I get it, you know, share because at least good things. But like it's so true and it's a parent and every person I talk to. And I mean, I feel like even with you doing these cards like it also gives people this whole episode by the way is an ad for. The most genuine. Whole thing sponsored? Yeah. But I mean you you're, you're saying that that was why you had started therapy was throughout the infertility experience. You would never done before that. I had gone a couple times in college through some other really hard going or Golic college is that it was like two or three times. And when my son was six months old, I kind of realized like, oh, this didn't just go away when I became a mom. Yeah, and we had a lot of other really hard stuff going on and then becoming a mom is it doesn't matter how you become. Mom is a a culture shift ages like obsolete photo, identity, like shape. Yeah. And all of the baggage that I had taken. Through life. I always have this idea that when it became a mom, I would have had it all figured out so that I could not mess up my kid. And then you realize when you are a mom like, oh, no, like there is no. Like before an. After the same person, same shit and it reveals that stuff. So deeply married. I've been married a while when I became a mom. So there was some of that like early marriage stuff where you're like, figuring out selfish you are and you're like figuring out all of these buttons, you push out other and your traumas and trying to understand each other's triggers and like all that stuff like you go through that and then you became up become apparent all over again in no way in you start to process things about how you were raised and your childhood and just so much there. So I had sort of thought like, I'll go to therapy for a little while and get back on my feet and good again, and I have not stopped going. It's been three and a half years, and I will say. For people starting therapy. Like it's taken me this long to really get to the root of what's actually going on and not to be just addressing the symptoms, but to be actually dealing with the traumas, like we're in the middle right now of unpacking some of the hardest stuff, and I feel safe to do it because I with someone I know very well who knows me very well now, and I'm also I'm just and they're ready to do that. And and I'm kind of blown away that it took me this long to address them, but also like, you know, some of these things are very deep traumas, very deep hurts and things that took me ten years to tell anyone let alone actually unpack in therapy. I'm just like, I don't know. I feel like in my in my sphere, my life, I am the like therapy evangelists like you should go to therapy. And not because I think everyone's messed up. But yeah, like the mass like here in the middle in this mess is where all of our lives happen like there is no messy. I'll get it together and then all start a relationship or become a pay under start a business. It's like the nest is currently happening all the time, and we're just kind of like, sometimes we like reach a clearing, but then it's like, okay, there's more stuff to get through and that's really okay. I think like it's good to maybe have some empathy for yourselves and self compassion that like it's okay that it's taken this man of time. You know, like sometimes the time is needed and you never know how long it's gonna take, you might go. And the second session you might be like, whoa, a Piff any, you know. But if it doesn't feel like that in the beginning, definitely stick with it. And I think it just generally takes a little bit of time. But you said that, you know, I you kind of. Work this symptoms and kind get into the root, and I'd love to kind of go into both of those what those symptoms kind of look like, like what things are noticing and your life and how they were presenting themselves. And then if you're comfortable with discussing it then like some of the root of those symptoms. Sure. Yeah. I think the reason I started in the first place I was having increasing panic attacks and what that looked like free for me. It's extreme increase heart rate. I get really dizzy because my heart. Slapped my blood pressure and feel nauseous. Sometimes I'm physically ill and I can't think I can't do anything. Sometimes I'm crying mostly. It's just I feel so out of control. And I've been having panic attacks back back through high school and college and they had settled down a little bit in my adult life. And then after becoming a parent, I started having them a lot. And and how are you dealing with them when they would come up? I wasn't. I mean they were crippling and then like ad nauseam and illness to that. And then like physically just crashed for days at a time, and I'm I offering at a pretty high level. I multi task quite a bit. I do a lot too much to be right now. I'm like pruning back. Yeah, but I so I, I'm always busy and always active and taking on new projects doing things and. When I'm not taking care of myself, it looks like I'm fine and finding find an I'm out like done. So panic attack would come on, and then it would take a few days to actually get back to functioning as a human. Yeah, which was really scary for me. And then when that starts happening and you're also a new mom? Yeah. Yeah, that's it's awful because you feel like you're gonna fail your kid. And my son. I really similar in a lot of ways like he has big feelings, big emotions, big swings of mood and fill things really deeply. And I realized pretty early on. That the only way he was gonna learn to deal with that stuff is if he was seeing me deal with it and it wasn't just like pretend it's fine and never have a panic attack in front of him. It's like. Show myself kindness, show him what rests looks like and show him what asking for help looks like and model that because if there's anything that people tell you about being a parent that is hundred percent true, is that kids do not listen to what you say? They pay attention to what you do, and now that he's almost four, it's like he's, he's a little, you know, doing his thing. He's living his life in. He's doing exactly the way the things he sees me. Yeah, that's yeah, it's infuriating. Sometimes I'm like, no, I said, don't do that. You're doing. Yeah. Yeah. So I just wanted to get second to remind everyone and take a little mini break to remind you guys that I am still selling some my clothes on posh Mark. It's a free app, download it. They have women kids end men and so many brands you can shop, and I will also be selling my clothes on there, but he goes to download it and check it out quickly because these items are going to sell out. I do have more that I will be uploading, but the whole process is so easy. Like getting rid of closes, always been like super stressful for me figuring out like, what can I get money for? What can't I get money for? So it's been super helpful to us posh Mark and just like I can put it all out there and see what you guys want to get. And then whatever else I'll end up probably donating, but you guys listeners, you guys can get five dollars off your first purchase with me. So go to posh Mark, download the app, and then you can use the code Taylor Nolan five when you sign up. So enter Taylor Nolan five to get. A five dollar this count off your first purchase and definitely check out the apps. So there's your reminder, but in how we'll get back to the show. So the panic attacks started increasing once you'd had your son and. That that was one of the symptoms kind of encouraging you motivating new maybe to to seek help. Were there any other, like some thumbs or I had started daydreaming about all of the other avenues. My life could have gone down, like I found myself fixating on like what if things had been like this? What if things had been like that. What. Yeah, and just being unhappy and feeling unhappy in in my marriage and in my job and everything. And the more I looked at it and released back and looked at my life. My life was exactly what I wanted. I just wasn't what I wanted, and I couldn't escape myself high was the movable thing, just like. Say that your life was exactly how you wanted it, but you. I am so freaking blast. Like I married my best friend and I have my dream job, but if I'm not healthy in the middle of that, that doesn't mean anything that's sympathy happy. Yeah, I can. I can destroy disease expert are how? Well it has turned out for me and I'm so grateful for my life. But you know, I I, no one else can make me happy or feel good or be healthy. I have to do those things. And I think it's a very common thing that we try to find our happiness and other people. And we would say, well, I married my best friend, so I'm happy. I should be happy or once I'm Mary my best friend, then I'll be happy. And really that is all within us to figure out and that can take a while and some days it's better than others. And you know, I think I'm curious if if your husband had. Received any kind of therapy or if you guys did any together, like once you had had your son, we haven't done any together, but he but he has his and he's he's fairly fairly well adjusted human looking like Microsoft. See how tradition. What he does, and I'm like, I don't know. You work gadgets. No. Yeah, but he has his well and a lot of what we've realized for the last few years is there's nothing wrong with our marriage that we can't figure out. But we are always going to be like butting heads against each other's trauma and against each other's like upbringings, and we both, you know, for all intents and purposes, like both sets for parents are together and have we fairly normal childhoods, but there's still a lot there that, yeah. I'll say something that is completely innocuous in my head, and it will hit him like a ton of bricks. And it will take days to figure out what I did and started. He's done anything wrong. I've done anything wrong. It's just we respond to each other on a level that we don't even understand if we're not really diving into that and trying to figure it out. And I been doing a lot of that kind of work lately. Like, why does this bother me? So. And that's a dynamic that I think plays out in like every interaction like we all have to call them, Lincoln foggy lenses on where that's how we perceive the world is through our particular pattern of blurred lenses. You know. There's always wanted to be things within us and how we lived our lives that are going to cause us to interpret things differently. And until you really take the time to unpack a lot of that stuff and recognize the symptoms how you're talking about, can you actually get to some of the root of of that stuff is and why that's coming up. So I love that you're like asking yourself, why is this bothering me? Like where is this coming from? That's always like very, like their Pissy question, but sure what I always asked like my girlfriend's and my friends or family when something's coming up. I'm like, okay. Where where do you think this is coming from? Because we, we stop yelling and start actually seeing each other when we can offset question. Yeah. When when one of us has that like little moment of breakthrough, like I'm realizing that I'm so angry about this because it's making me feel like this because this happened back today and when we bring that up, it does build empathy for the other person because you're like, oh, I've got that stuff to shoot like neither of us are perfect. And other of us know are free of shame and all that stuff. And I think it can be kind of tricky because I think some people might perceive that as like, well, he's using this as an excused because this happened and by reacted and think about that. About that a lot today because I was catching on a few of your episodes and I was listening to dean and I really wanted to yell at my radio, like hot an excuse. It's never an excuse for bad behavior like now, if there's abusive behavior happening, it's not an excuse, but you both come into a relationship with baggage and it's never a burdens the other person because you're going to carry their burden and they're going to carry yours and you're gonna help each other. And they're going to be moments where you're like, I was a complete asshole, and I'm sorry, but here's the reason why, and I'm not. I'm not saying is an excuse. I'm just trying to help you understand so that you don't take it personally because it's not really about you and I can apologize and I can make it right, and I cannot different next time. But these things will keep coming up because I'm human and for the rest of my life. I'm going to be dealing with these kinds of things just like now that dean listen, I, that I realized well into. Sewed that. So much of what he frankly says about what he's thinking and how he handles relationships and not wanting to lead on other people. Like I have the right words to say like, I have the language to be like, you should rely on people. You should build empathy and you should do all these things. But what my brain sounds like is denied that. So I was like. I know exactly how to answer him, but also that's the same stuff I'm doing. I went through a fairly bad forty, eight hours of depression a couple of weeks ago, and I spent all forty eight hours trying to text anyone like I'm just going to text one person and tell them going through something and I couldn't do it because I had all those thoughts like I wanna bother them. They have their own issues, their responsibility, and they're not going to respond well. And I'm just going to be disappointed because they didn't care for me the way needed. And you know, so. I am the person who writes the words about the empathy and like, yeah, preaches the connection and all that stuff, but I still have the same stuff in my brain. Yeah, we all have the well. I text me. I text me second. Yeah, I think no matter. Like I think therapist is a good example for this because we're definitely up against a different kind of. Standard at times and stigma where no matter what kind of person you are, what experience you have education you have. You're also human and you're also like you're not prone to or you're not words or hard today immune. You're not immune to shame. Still is gonna come up and you've you've even noted that like things come up and that that you've worked on some of this trauma Reese more recently may be in therapy and what what kinds of things do you notice that are coming up may have specific to with your son or maybe it's totally? Yeah. One of the big themes in therapy that comes up a lot for me as using my voice. So speaking being the face of my company, speaking about these things that are important to me, I'm working on writing a book and, oh my. Fading and nerve wracking. That's amazing. Yeah, you're gonna have to come back. We're going to another episode. I would love to go back. Yeah. So a lot of it is about using my voice and and giving voice to to my grief and giving voice to these big emotions that are always. Believed are too much for other people to handle, like the grief is specific to the infertility. It's specific Denver, Tilleke. I lost my grandmother who was like my person at fifteen and never really dealt with that. And. The things that have been coming up most recently are just lost a dear friend, four months ago to cancer. And so that's been triggering. Other losses that grief grief is of uncomfortable for millier feeling like it's it's such a weird like comforting blanket where you're like, I felt this before, but it's also like inescapable when you're in the middle of it. So there's that and then. To be perfectly honest. Near about it. I experienced sexual assault when I was in high school and all the things going on in our political and scape have been triggering deeply. And I would say I never understood the concept of trigger. Really. And then there have been things happening lately that I'm like, wow, okay. That's that's a trigger right there. I. I've also had the experience of of sitting in court and giving testimony and fro that experience, no, from a completely different experience. But basically the combo of having been assaulted and having given testimony on that day when that woman was having to experience that I was literally like I could feel myself in that chair. And for that whole day, all the days since then. I have been reliving so much of that and not not even just the sold itself. But all of this talk that came after like, no one will believe me and it doesn't matter and I didn't end the relationship. So it's my fault. And I chose to be in this relationship in the first place, and I should have known better and. Just all all of that. All of the ugly voices again and again about my work and. And when I talk about my voice and using my voice, that feels like an act of rebellion because there was a time in my life where saying, yeah, didn't mean anything. It did like rest. And so after that it was like, what is the point? If a moment that it really mattered? My voice wasn't worth anything. Then why? Why try like why? Why speak? Why for myself and it's it's crappy. It's so bad frustrating. And it's the last thing that I wanna be dealing with like I'm almost thirty two like this happened in high school. I don't wanna be thinking about this. I don't be talking about it. I don't wanna be experiencing it and I don't want anything I'm going through right now to be about that because it was something I spent so many years trying to put behind me, but I didn't. I didn't tell anybody for ten years. I didn't like really literally stayed out loud for ten years and now. It's been fifteen years actually. I'm actually starting to see that I've been carrying, although I saw and the shame and the guilt. And like now I've been beating myself up over it for fifteen years and and it's so it feels embarrassing, honestly till like admit that. But. I, I wanna talk about it because I know other people, I know other people have gone through this. I know they're going through it right now. Like our country is in very specific. I think there's a hell of a lot of, yes, hi experience. I mean, I've already got several messages from people sharing their stories and saying how it's impacted them and how it's triggered them. And. It's, I mean, I even everything that you just said, put all the words to it. And it's interesting because even as I think back there were several experiences in high school that I definitely have not dealt with yet and they've they've been triggered at certain points, but it has not been a box that I've been ready to open and certainly there are safe spaces for it, but I, I, I know I'm not there. But I think, okay. Yeah. And I'm like, I, you know, I hear stories and I. You know, and I do think is really important to talk about think once I talk about it, it will feel better. And it's it's interesting because the only times that I have actually brought it up has been when I'm having to defend victim in a conversation trying to explain the circumstances, and then it's it's blurred out in a very defensive way as like, well, you know what, you really don't understand. You really don't know because you haven't been in such and such situation like I get it. I get why this person would not want to say anything. And it is really, really shitty. And I mean, I'm happy that you are like going to be perfectly honest. Really. Yeah, you're still not alone even as you're talking to me about it. I'm like, yeah, yeah. And it's so scary because we've, we've seen literally played out in social media and everywhere else and on the news like all of the self talk literally published for everyone to see like because ever. I think every woman who's been assaulted reads those things goes, this is what they're saying about me. This is up. This is all the things that I would here, and it's terrible. It's terrible because no matter what you feel politically like victims of sexual abuse. Like eight is not. It's not just a widened, you anybody. If I literally could not make my mouth form those words for ten years, like literally couldn't even admit to myself. That's what happened to me because it was so traumatic. Literally, even in the moment I had no words I literally couldn't speak. I felt like I was paralyzed. Would really could not speak let alone, like let me go and tell someone like, what, because there's this inherent. There's this inherent thing that happens when you're when you're abused in any way where your brain goes straight to. If this is what's happening to me, this must be what I deserve. Yeah. Like if I am so. Easily used and thrown away, then that's just who I am and and it is easier to believe that and us look at yourself in the mirror and go like, I'm garbage and w that for the rest of your life than to actually address what happened and agreed that it is hard work. It's risky feels so emotionally expensive. That's where I'm like. I'm not ready. Yeah, I think like you know about the turn thirty two and I think at thirty two, I'm ready to solve, believing them garbage. You know, because I don't want my kid to believe he's garbage. I don't want these things to happen to him, but if they do cut forbid, but if they do. I want him to be able to look at his mom and say, like. It's possible. It's possible to have seen have seen some and move forward like just because that happens to you does not mean that you are garbage? No, at all. And it's so easy when you're talking to somebody else like when people have shared their stories with me. So easy for me to say like you our beloved, you are adult light, you are are everything and when it's myself, it's so much more comfortable to believe garbage. Yeah. And that's always where like if a friend is going through something, I always say, I'm like, when we get off the phone, I want you to have a conversation with yourself, and I want you to talk to yourself as if you are a friend of yours and what you would say to them because you need to step outside of yourself right now to give yourself some compassion and empathy. Because you know that the negative things that you're saying in your head or not trill and is actually interesting when when I was after dean was on this pod, I went on his pod help. I suck at dating and they had a therapist on. We were talking about stuff, and I was like, one of the biggest thing that I always try to remember is like you are not your thoughts. You were the observer of your thoughts and deems like, what? What are you talking about life? How does that make sense? And it was kind of like combative with me on it, and I'm not sure if I fully explained it really like well enough. But to me that gives me such comfort and perspective because when you are just thinking that you are all of your thoughts, like when your thoughts of European shit like then you're like, oh shit. I'm a piece of shed like, but if you're if you step outside of that and are like, okay, I noticed that you know that boy saying that I might be a piece of shit, but I'm not gonna listen to that Boyce like when you when you just believe everything that your mind says you can become so paralyzed. Panic attacks and all kinds of things come up because you're in your head, you're you're not actually in touch with what's surrounding new. And when you take a step outside of that, you can see everything else. And I think it it allows for so much more to get in than just the fear that your mind is speaking from. Oftentimes we're fucking scared and we're trying to protect ourselves. So a lot of our thoughts are going to be like to try to protect ourselves or try to fuck in like terrorist apart and be our harshest critics, and it's a really hard to step outside of that. And like, even today, when I'm coming. I'm like, you know about yourself, empathy, it's going to be okay. I sort of think of my brain as like a detective with a deep confirmation bias. I'm going to the world taking evidence like finding the evidence that I am actually garbage. Like, that's what I believe. So I'm trying to find the evidence that proves that. And so I'm just pulling selectively what will back up my hypothesis and like filing it away for later, like, see your garbage. I definitely. I definitely like right after the shell. That was a huge, a huge thing. I did even any comment that I would look at on any photo it was. It was like I was preparing myself internally. I feel like just. Steam inside me of like this negative prepared like buffing up of myself to like, read this common and like this. Give me this piece of shit. This one's gonna tell me I should never be therapist was gonna tell me I myself. This was going to tell me I'm like fucking ugly, black person. Like what else are you gonna throw at me, you know. And it's it's really shitty to like not even step outside yourselves to see all all the other things that are being set like the confirmation bias. I'm so glad you brought that up so real and we all we are also very capable of that and not just capable that is our that is our bent. Like we're, we're always leaned that way and it is hard work. And I think all the time about like the people in my life that that I don't consider the most self aware of the people that aren't in touch with their emotions and those kind of things. And it's. I see how expensive and how difficult and how it's like working out every day. Like everybody wants the six pack ABS, nobody wants to be in the Jimmy flick. Mental health has been for me like being in touch with what's going on. And and even having empathy like empathy is this beautiful, beautiful thing, but it literally costs you. It costs you your like great afternoon in the sunshine. Like it is like everything that comes up. If you want to be known, perfect person, you put yourself in that plan. You're like, what would it feel like for me to be experiencing that and it and it is, it's expensive nagging. You have to be vulnerable. And it means that you're not gonna have it together all the time because you're going to be affected by the things that been around you to people that you care about people you don't even know. So when I think about other people like not sometimes I look at it unlike that could be kind of nice to not worry about anything to not like go there and be like, I don't have feelings. It's five, but I also know that it's like you're going along just fine and you're gonna fall off the cliff eventually. So I would much rather be like at the gym working on my Avs, like not that I'm literally doing. Working my mental health all the time so that when stuff comes up, it's a speed bump instead of a cliff. Yeah. Great way to put it. And I'm curious for you how if you can like put put words to it, or maybe an example of how you are putting into practice, like addressing those route traumas when they're triggered? I do a lot of writing, so I try to like trying to give myself freedom to write whatever I'm thinking and to not at it. So like to write longhand. So I can't edit as I go and write things that I'm not going to share. And the later I might share them. But yeah, the the act of writing something that no one's ever gonna see is really good for me. So I do that and then consistent therapy is really important for me, and then I'm a, I'm an what I like to call an external processor. I don't know if there's like a formal term for that. My husband's very internal attic to think about things and take a lot of time to process what's going on. And I don't know what I'm thinking until I've said it out loud which that has been so much like dinner marriage because he's like, I need time to think. And I'm like, I don't know what I think. So at the beginning of an argument, I say something that he's still thinking about at the end that I no longer believe because I've talked out of it. We're learning. We're figuring now that's very much like my college relationship like. Take a break and like thing about and like, no, I need to talk through it like right now. Like, I don't know what's going on. So it's been like a blend of like having other people that I can use a sounding board. And honestly, like I say, things to talk about with my therapist, I talked to her processing and then I bring stuff home and talked to my husband and it's not like I can't talk to him. I totally can at any point, but there's gonna be a lot less like stormy seas in our admin, her life at home. If I know what I'm thinking before, I'm expressing it to him and it's just been a much better metrics variance for all. All. Good. So that's that's some of it. And I think a lot of is really uncharted and the time that I have talked about it publicly like I fully. I'm fully aware that tonight when I down in bed, if like, well, my brain is they call a God. You talked about that. People are gonna like what is happening. But the more I do my voice, the more I do speak up, do talk about it and I do like give light literally turn lights on like I'm not hiding in the dark anymore. The better I feel about what's going on and what has happened because it's it does pricing. No one's like, oh God. How could this happens? Like, what is it like one in two women like this is Lana surprise. So you know, it's just like with infertility like the first time I shared that it was horrifying for me like that because anyone responded poorly. But just because it was like something, I feel a lot of shame around is now out in the world, but the more I've talked about it, the more realize like it's a part of me. It's part of who I am. It's part of my story, but there's a multitude of other things that are more important that are more telling of who I am and I find that you're using of your voice is so helpful to other people and like honestly, very, very helpful. And. You are someone that I reference in my head when I'm like, do I share this to knock sheriff lied so much. You use hosted a photo. You'll always have beautiful makeup always year. I shadow like so good and doing shadow, you'd posted this photo and you were like crying, and it was about just like everything that was going on, and it was so raw so offense. And it was so vulnerable and I was just like, that's amazing. Like those are always the things I'm like Goshen done, like whole black did. I'm so glad you do, and my voice comes through and like every letter and even this God, just all of them. You don't have to be able to explain that. I don't have to totally understand. I'm still here for you. Yeah, your times I've like. I just I like to think about, like sitting in the middle with people like not like I don't. I really don't have. I don't have to completely understand your and you have to tell me the like, I just want people to know like I'm in the mess with you. The only place that real relationships happen is in we really do. I'm sad that you're sad because you're absolutely the best. Yes. Okay. All of them are wonderful and they all literally for for anything you could just the most raw like authentic moments of reaching out to someone that's like what I feel when I read them and it's so nice to put a picture to know that, like kind of what I envisioned actually of you and where these came from, just like, you know, coming from place of raw motion and like being very real authentic to your life. And that's, that's what helps us connect through your cards and you you ship everywhere. Right. I do. 'cause I really, I really want you guys to check them out because I know I get masters about like, oh, like my friend is dealing with this and like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do or even get a card for yourself. Yeah. Put it in the bathroom. Mirror. Honestly, honestly, they're still cute. Like one of them I just have like just propped up. I think it's the empathy kindness respect. Yeah, that's why I reached out to you in the first place. I remember on the the women tell all inky you. You asked for empathy and I was like, I'm so with you like, I'm so with you and I had just the cylinder slogan, empathy, kindness, respect. I had made for my protests sign. No. Back in the day when we started doing that and it just it has meant so much. And we've been able to raise about five thousand dollars for refugee aid through selling the t shirts, and it's been like a big, a big part of the last few years for me. Idea of empathy. Yeah, I just felt for you so much. Like I always I watched the show and I always pick like one person. That's my girl guy. Like I'm rooting for them. I seem like they seem like we could be friends like pick one and you're like my person from right away. And I was like, just, you know, it is such a shit world out there. Sometimes it really can be, but. It can also be so beautiful and I, you know, I have seen you these last few years use whatever the show brought to help people and move on people and keep spreading those things that are important to you in like, what more could anyone ask but to like, keep doing that stuff like, I'm proud of you. I really am, and I'm really glad I reached out because I was like, you know how nervous doing that. I'm like God prison under the DMZ being awkward. But I was just like, I feel like she needs a little bit of support right now. And I just like, you know, men a lot a lot and it means a lot now. It really does. I means a lot. I'm so glad that we did connect. And I think even just a small amount of empathy goes of really, really long way because even though you might have been like, oh, signed in the, you know, like that that shine through, you know, like it's still meant something to me. It made helped me feel like someone saw me, you know, and it's. It's going to be hard for people to see you if you don't show them who you are, and that's really, I try to keep it real, don't we sell even wanna really uncomfortable, and I feel like you do the same and even through your cards, like you're showing yourself and every one of these. You know, and that's part of what makes them so great. Like for all, just figuring it out, keep going. Sounds like something I was just saying, really in the sentence. Yeah, it's great. Can you tell people little bit about like where they can find you already mentioned some things, but like anything that like the store is working on where the store is at visit? Seattle, check out the shop all the things. So we do have a brick and mortar shop in the fishermen's terminal, magnolia interbay neighborhood of Seattle and everything is online at constellation code dot com. And we have a coupon code or talk about this nurse for twenty percents off your order. The coupon code is Taylor. That, and we're on Instagram and Twitter at constellation co. And gosh, we're just. We're just living life over there. If you haven't fallen in love with the shop already heard something's wrong. And how did you for the name name had significant. It's it's about like individuals come in gathered to make a bigger hole because they never wanted to just be about the powerful everybody we work with and everybody who's a who's a customer like when we make something together because the only thing I want in life is to help people connect to the people. They love like, that's it just want. I want more connection and I want for people to not feel alone. So if any one of these cards sent to any person makes them feel less alone, like I am succeeding at my goals in life. So very thoughtful, various, it helps to set an achievable goal for really like dug deep to try to figure out what success means to me and that. And that's helped me a lot is a lot of things about business that are impossible. Yeah, owning a small businesses, not easy, no matter what it is that you're doing, what kind of you're making or what you're selling or what you're doing, like being a creator of any kind is really daunting. So setting an achievable goal. I can see and hire like, you wash me and you're like, oh, that's the one. That'd be my friend. If I'd like to my Instagram year, like. Yeah, that's because like even would do. I mean, that's my version of success as well. That's a conversation. I typically end up having with friends as successful flake and. A lot of friends that are like in tech in business world. Okay. Success money. What is success? That could be a whole other episode on its own, but for me, it is. It's that connection. And even with doing the podcast there, remember sewn when the first episode was coming out and I was like all these doubts and I was like, you know, on this just like if one person listens and like take something away from it can. That's amazing. And that's great. You know that like positively impacted one percent like that's great. That's why I want to do it. And it's not doing that like I need to do something different because that's success. That's happiness. That's connectedness. That's, you know. Creating whole community people constellation. So many. Got love it, and thank you so much for coming share. Do this. I know seem like we have like actually like hang out and not just like Instagram record podcast, great, too. Yeah, I hope I hope you text me. I will. I will. Okay. Thank you. Yes, and check out her shop. You guys use code Taylor, twenty percent off. This is the ads for this. Okay. Thank you guys. Tell much for listening. Please leave a review on itunes. I love reading your guys reviews on there, and you can also shoot. Did you have an Email? I do low constellation co dot com. Yeah. If you wanna send her emails, you wanna talk about infertility or anything else. Shoot. Yeah, I'm always happy to chat. Yeah. So reach into my DM's Liden DM guys, no shame there, but also leave reviews. I love getting guys DM's about way. Take away from that persona and like how they impacted you for also pleased with love. I tunes for us as well. Thank you. Can also Email the pod, ask dot, let's talk about it at g mail dot com for like topics that you guys want to see me talk about with other people and yeah, about does it for today. Thank you so much. Again, coming and chatting with me. All right. I'll talk to you guys next time.

Slash Taylor Seattle Instagram Taylor Nolan dean Microsoft golf Tilleke Mark Louis business owner Cecchi green lake Tilden Simon Harris Landau Golic Jimmy
Episode 119: Anubis Is Coming

The Confessionals

2:01:05 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 119: Anubis Is Coming

"This is all circulating around the base. That giant kill almost talk about. Long bony fingers, we ate the door curl up to grab it. And then disappeared. When he came over to Nate. Dude, he slithered over to. This giant comes out of the cave with all frozen. Starts running firing at the giants. The giant move. In one hand, the running really fast, it's fears then both like this somebody else shoot him shoot him in the face. It basically. Dot dot. About fifteen yards. White me for my blow the of. Deal from things at my leg. And I look over there are two mall, gray. And they're literally getting pulled off that reach my hand Bush, and I bear couldn't breathe couldn't move because I know see him come on Stor. Yup. Welcome to the show everybody. You're listening to the confessionals. I'm your host, Tony Merckel. Thank you for being here. If you've had an encounter or story you'd like to share with me on the show. Go ahead and shoot me an Email. My Email address is the confessionals podcast at g mail dot com. That's the confessionals podcast at gmaiLcom or go to the website, the confessionals podcast dot com. Hit the connection section, and you can reach me that way as well. Either. We works for me. Just get a hold of me before we get into the shutouts this week. I want to let everybody know about a new podcast that came across believe paranormal, and you Afo radio this podcast started about two two and a half months ago, and it isn't a counter show, and it's very well done very well produced Kate does a very good job. And I highly recommend people. Go ahead and check out believe paranormal, and you Afo radio hit up. I tuned Stitcher pod being wherever you're listening to podcasts and checkout believe paranormal and UFO radio. Now, let's get to the art bell tunes. Five star rating. Review shoutouts. If you go to tunes leave a five star rating review, you get a shadow on the following week show. And this week shutouts is nine four two two guy. All the fun nicknames are gone Eleanor Rigby to booth forty five seventy eight Cody sells cars cle-, g sheep E Lee dark decline and pink lady seventy nine. Thank you very much for going to leave. It a five star rating review. It definitely means. A lot to me that you guys are willing to support the show by leaving those reviews now moving onto the patriot shouts this is for people. Go to patriot dot com forward slash the confessionals and sign up to become a patron to help support the show on a monthly basis and this week we have may appea- and sasquatch colluded with aliens. Thanks so much for going to patriot dot com forward slash the confessionals and signing up to become a patron to help support the show. It means a lot to me. Now this week we have Mel coming on Mel starts out with talking to us about a new biz. And how she's been visited by this entity? Her entire life. But then the conversation molds into a lot of different paths. This is a deep worm hole. We're going down today for the next two hours to strap in get some popcorn get a drink because you're going in for a ride right now. Let's go. Okay tonight. We have Malcolm in on. Mel how you doing great. How're you doing fine fine? So we were just sitting here talking a little bit about some of your experience and stuff, and it's I can tell it's going to be pretty intense show tonight. So, you know, it's listener discretion advised. I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, you've you have an interesting story here because you've been visited or at least have seen a new best like entities, most of your life. And if anybody that is listening doesn't know what a new bes- is you can Google it just type in a n u b I s a new base and you'll see what we're talking about. And you'll see the classic Egyptian figure of a wolf head on a human body. That's what we're talking about tonight in modern times, we we might even call them a dog man, you know, so so Mel you were a young child when this first happened. You just are walking centers. Some of these experiences of of seeing an a newbie like entity. Advertising. No, I'm also Dopp did too. But I. The time that I remember I'm clearly I was about nine and I making up before that too early in the morning about four o'clock and here Segel's I grew up in Seattle. And this was in just a funky old house and Seattle, and I would wake up upstairs bedroom and felt like there was like a difference in the air pressure difference in everything like in the gravity. And I mean, it was almost like everything had motion to it. And before I seen him. I would walk downstairs and the cabinets in the kitchen there. Those ugly wooden seventies cabinets would go they were kind of moving. They're all moving almost like there's this air coming through them. Well, the time that I remember when I saw him. I went to the food of the top of the stairs ready. Go downstairs, and I saw someone walk path. Passed in the hallway so went downstairs towards the kitchen and full on a new booth was in our our kitchen. He was looking he was just looking around and Ignacio me, and I just I sit there in the kitchen too. And he was he was looking around and the felt calm. I was not scared. I'm like I said it was like he was doing. One thing about it. Now, it was like a child welfare checking like a caseworker would do or something. It's really strange, but he was just kind of looking around taking note of things it seemed, and that's what I remember. I remember, you know, she wasn't his is not glowing. He looked face. I mean, just acted like a person, you know, no growling nothing like that. But he was just checking things out. And I don't remember what happened after that. But he was you know, I could tell he had some thority. So he was walking around. They're like he belonged there. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely like he had the right to be there. And he was checking things out. Well, that's interesting, and how old are you in nine about nine? Yeah. No as a nine year old when you see something like that, are you able to gauge in even remember hell tall. And bulky. This thing was. He was not bulky. But he wasn't very skinny. He was just he was he would have been taller than a person. I would say maybe definitely over six feet. And he was standing straight. So he wasn't leaned over. But he was standing like person. He wasn't like an upright dog completely. I do not know about tail or anything like that. I don't don't remember anything like that. I just remember he was conducting himself like a human being and he had a face. You know, like the Nuba supposed to be jackal, but he had a face like he wasn't super furry. You know? I don't remember the for just remember he had a face. He had now. Just like, you know, a new this is depicted. I find it interesting first off that you experience this. And what you're describing really does seem like what you see in these old pictures from Egypt. Did it have clothing on? Or was it not clothed? He must have had clothing on. I was thinking about that. And I don't remember it being like Egyptian I would have remembered that. But he I don't remember thinking he's naked. You know? I I don't remember that. And I don't remember the for just remember his face. And like I said vise weren't glowing. His eyes were like, you know, a person's is his face Lewis completely like dogs. I mean long very long snout. And a pri- not hunched over. And just I mean, he looked at me. And he didn't say anything, I didn't say anything. But you know, he's he knowledge about it was there, and he I remember was turning his head and looking around at things too in. This isn't the first this isn't the last time, you saw this thing that that was the first time, you know, when you saw this. You forget how you worded it. But you referenced the idea that you really it didn't didn't seem like you were sure how that whole encounter. Ended was something that like you just woke up in your bed or you're walking down the hallway don't remember ever turning around to walk away from it had like, what can you go into more detail about that? I wear fully awake. It. I I didn't like wake up in bed after that. I was fully awake. I think I probably went back upstairs. You know? I I had the impression that you know, he was he was checking things out. And that you know, it was all good. And you know, but I was wake and before that I've been awake to you know, nights before that before I'd seen him. I was waking up at the same time. And I I suppose I probably went back up stairs. You know? And if I told him sleep after that, you know, I really can't remember exactly what I did. But I do not I was away. It wasn't a dream. Yeah. I mean, even if even if you thought maybe the possibility of a dream, the fact that has happened throughout your entire life. I mean at some point you're like, okay, I'm not dreaming this, you know, it's more serious. So that was the first time that you experienced it. Did you tell your parents at all or anything like that? No, no, no. I didn't tell them. And I've told people as an adult to, you know, our toll people later on about things in my friends, and I together I mean, we there's a place called green lake that was by where we lived in north Seattle. It's a man-made lake it's right in like the city, and I and my friend were walking around there late at night. And this is probably like mouse thirteen or so, and it was really late too late for kids to be out. And we walked under some trees, there's a little path with that goes around the lake and we walked under these trees and heard very calmly someone say my full name, and let's just say, it's a very it's an unusual name, but I'm going by mail. So it was like Mel it was just like very calm like it was right over our heads, and my friend heard it to play his day. And I always felt that was kind of connected with it. And you know, I. I talked to. I mean, my friends, you know, I talked to him about things and stuff. But I didn't I didn't really talk to my parents about any, you know, any of the mill is it because you didn't think they believe you. Or was there something, you know, about it that just scared you from talking about it? Do you understood? Do you even remember why you didn't tell your parents after I'm trying to later on? You know, I talked to my mom about it later on. But things I've been I adopted and I went into foster care for while to so I've been off and on and I didn't I felt closer I guess to my friends. I get that makes sense. I mean, especially coming from your situation and stuff. I totally understand that. So that was the first time what happened next. I mean, how how long period of time was it between the first experience and the second experience. Gather experience that happened pay two thousand ten there was I'm I'm talking about ones that I know I wasn't dreaming. And the other one I'm in. I'm in New Mexico right now, not Seattle and that happened in New Mexico in two thousand ten and I was riding a horse out in a wildlife. Reserve a game reserve. And this is this is where. It was different. And there was like a different emotion. I thought somebody walking, and I thought they had a big coat on and. They were far away. And then my my horse notice this to all of a sudden we were they were like right next to us. And that was also not no when I said, it's it was a different. I know it was a different one. But this was like an older, and I guess you could even say, maybe more like skin, you know, people say like skin walkers to there was something about I really felt this was like human, but definitely dog face. And just looked very sad. Not I mean, no nothing threatening. But I looked this one also square in the eyes, and it was like humanize, you know, I mean, it was definitely understanding very human is. And it just I got the impression of aim very sad. Or maybe even disappointed like in me. I don't know. There was something very sad. And my horse was aware of of this entity to and she backed up, and that was it we were off. So that was that was when another time that that I can mention you know, I. Things that aren't that interesting that I could say I mean, it's been something my entire life before the first one, I told you about too, I think I just sort of seemed there might be a possibility when I was really young. There was underdog cartoons on that old. And you know, I mean. Upright walking canine, but I kind of the same that. And also, you know in Seattle, the university of Washington, the university of Washington huskies football, you know, the huskies mascot, and they did cartoons of an upright walking husky who were close, and I used to draw that to do a lot of that. I really liked that cartoon of upright husky. You know, like the game when they won the game he'd be all triumphant and when they lost you'd have like a broken leg or something. And you know, this cartoon is through this every week. So I think I just I don't know. I I've never really been shocked by things because I've kind of had them haven't my whole life. I mean other things two sides seeing, you know, upright canine, but that in New Mexico where where I'm now was. An experience that I did tell a lot of people about two, and I've had a lot of people to me about things that have happened to you know, similar, and that's the thing. I think this happens to a lot of people, but they just don't wanna sound like crazy person. You know? I mean, that's the thing. I really believe this happens to a lot more people. And what I'm going to talk about later is the reason I really wanted to talk with you too. And then other things happened for the first time, I contacted you that make it even more, you know, make me want to communicate this to others. The time. The last time I try one was in Tukwila Washington, which is you know, it's right by the airport in Seattle, and it was with some others too. And I decided I mean, I I already knew this was spiritual creature, and I would say full on came in and not that it has to be violent and scary to be daemon. I mean, they demons can be quite calm and demons can look like people to. But I did I thought when and he was with people looking demons to and that was in Tukwila, and he didn't say anything, and he he was. He was furrier. I mean, and there was other two there were others. There's one that looked almost like a dog too. But that's actually get more into the whole story about that. Because that took a while to happen. I've been seeing shadows. This was this actually was last year two thousand seven seventeen and it was not Tober. And I've been seeing a lot of shadows around the apartment, which was normal. I mean, I've seen this before we've had a lot of things like this happened before and like the what they call shadow people. But like, you know, like little shows darting around to like cat size or even smaller. And I was also seeing something in the corners of room and my son. Hid mentioned a couple of things to thought were kinda strange, but my husband hadn't seen anything. And it almost I don't know. There was something going on in the apartment and now gonna sound even crazier, but when I was laying in bed. I would see like I'm like the sketchy like pattern with like in the corners of the room. And yeah, it would be in the corners like these sketchy like pattern, and it was like I was it was almost like cobwebs, and then I would see something. And I'm not scared inside, you know, rests are my phobia, but spiders, no. But it looks like a spider that would crawl out of the corner, and like kind of like in a real almost mechanical way across the ceiling like towards where I was sleeping in the bed. Looking up stealing? And I was like, oh, boy this is weird. And I was not taking drugs. You know? I didn't have any medication that would cause any anything like that. And since then I've studied this a lot because I I should also say too, I was not raised Christian. I have not read the bible since then I've read parts of the bible, and I've learned a thing or two about this. I've learned that. Yes. It does stop if you call on if you call Jesus, and if you say, you know, by the power of God. And and you you plead the blood of Jesus I've learned so much about that. And I feel like God had my eyes, and I'm not I mean, the first thing I win the father before was demon. You know, I was not raised with any kind of Christian education whatsoever. You know, and I I had no idea Mayes last year were open. But that quickly became worth. It wasn't just little spiders, you know, going across the ceiling. I I knew there were other. I would see flashes the people which I've seen before. And I thought okay that makes sense. You know, this goes, and it doesn't even have to be from this building. There can be goes thrown here too heavily populated area. I'm seeing normal people looking growth and flashes of them. This was after I felt like shadows. And I see something like it looked like someone was walking down the hallway. And I also I would notice things like it was like, Wow, Did the blankets move. That was the weird thing. I had a bunch of blankets Hecht up, and they look like they'd move somewhat. And nobody else was there that would have done that. My husband would not do that. And when evening, I knew I mean, I've always trusted my gut. And I knew that there was there were the. There was somebody else in the apartment in the back room if the two bedroom apartment, and we ended up putting our bed in the front room with big fireplace. And it was really nice, and it was in the fall. So I was from a back room, which I just had a desk and some book shelves and Benjamin blankets folded up kind of cluttered. I guess but Queen and I knew I was on my computer. Okay, us on Facebook and use someone with their and it seemed like the came from the closet and with the big walked in L shape cloth. And I I don't know what I was thinking in. Oh, okay. I have to disclaimer here. I did have drinks a bug to that night. Okay. Not enough to drink those ceiling friendly. I guess maybe. Silly. I don't know. But I just this is the big mistake you need to sermon it with this. And this is what I should not have done. That's probably started the whole problem if Hello I said, Hello and new you're there, and my husband was like in the front room watching TV, and I was in the back on the computer. And I was like, oh somebody is here. And I know it was female, and I said, hi, okay. There's goes to her, and I'm not afraid, but this is interesting those like, well, there's more than one and I did not see them yet. And there were there were three. There was the woman and two men, and I basically said Hello to them. And after that too. That was it for that. I did not see them when I was taking a shower. I would hear music and this can happen to people through like, medical reasons. You know, people can hear museum the hair running water, you know, but these issue. It was I heard somebody singing, and it wasn't my voice. You know? It was a lot better than my voice. But it was women singing. And then I heard my name. And now, it sounds this is where it starts sound like, oh, maybe she's the furnish. 'cause it sounds it. It totally sounds like schizophrenia episode. It. It was very strange in. My name was mentioned some very personal things were mentioned every time. I take a shower. I'll like, wow. I saw them. I saw her and she was three and for me to be if I was gonna magin anything and also to impress upon me or for me to like. I don't know. It's kinda funny that they'd be three Caucasian looking. I mean, they're like three cock as in. Dress kind of modern peoples and she said that her friend like liked me. There is these two guys and they were dressed kind of search. I mean, just three of them and. It was it was really strange, and they have they had kind of an they acted like the kind of had enough thority like they were there. And they were there before me, and I did not think demons at for fifth out. Okay, go maybe something tragic happened at light rail were really close to the light rail station there or I mean, it just to me seem like his three ghost. Okay. Big deal. You know, I was like it seemed a little strange. There was something weird that they would you know, they must have known if they're there that I'm married, and you know, it just it was strange. I mean, they seem to like know things about me. And now, it sounds totally like, okay this. Mimic schizophrenia, or whatever, you know. 'cause when I would happen next, and it kinda reminds me of actually movie that's how now this is before the movie was out, but I had an allergic reaction the next day 'cause they had said something she I heard the same a lot. And that was strange of Mike. Okay. Voices in my head. I should not tell too many people this my friends. No, I'm not, you know, that it's not a medical thing or something because we've had this. I've had experiences my friends before too. And I you know, I I don't do anything to cause anything occult happen to me. Or at least I didn't think I did. I didn't know why I would be having these spirits visit me, and of course, then I did not know to say, you know, to discern and say, you know. Do you know that Jesus, you know? I mean, I did not know how to protect myself. So ended up that day. I got I felt really strange. I had an allergic reaction. I gave myself in epi pen shot and. I ended up. I mean, I could feel this. My my lips are swelling up more than usual and my tongue. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna go. We live really close to the hospital to Highline. So we went to high run, and I was thinking maybe need another epi pen shot. You know, it wasn't that worried about it. A deal with allergies and kids who have allergies. So in the hospital. I was just waiting there to make sure because it makes your heart connect- jittery when you take a shot of epinephrine. So I'm sitting on the examination table, although myself, nobody else in the room. I'm fine. Really? You know, I mean, I just checked in for that. And we're going to go home. Everything was okay. And right behind me where there was no room for human to be heard growling right behind me on the examination table, and there was a growing male sounding growl. And it was pretty wicked sounding and I. I kinda went around. And I was like what you know. 'cause I hadn't heard that. Go sinful growl at me at and it was so strange table looked around at the back. I said what are you doing, you know, and I shouldn't let's go should have been talking to spirit. And then I mean kind of. Glad nobody else's looking in on the room, then too. But. I looked around. And I just like looked I stood up. And I just decided I wasn't gonna sit down there again, then I heard a little growl. And then this is the weird thing. It was midway said, and it was almost a haiku or a short short poem analyst thinking, okay fiery now might not say back, right? But he said the fiery FOX Leith on the hot rocks. And when I looked at it later, maybe he said lease under the hot rocks. But he said that it was a male voice, and it was finished off little growl at the end. And I about that later, I wrote it down. And I was like I think that's exactly what he said. And I'll say I thought it was like fire FOX Muslim are FOX what you know. So I looked it up. I was thinking does this mean anything what is this and urban dictionary? There's something about a fiery FOX that means a girl who's outspoken and fire. But I don't know. I mean, I don't know why he said that it turns out that was one of the spirits because later that night when I came back. They they would like talk with each other and the girl it was really crazy now, Tony this is where it sounds weird. And this might be where I got into real trouble too. You know because that night to I purchased. It was like a little shop packets the little plastic thing of cut, and I I should not have been drinking. And it wasn't a lot. It wasn't like it was basically like one stiff drink, but I told I told my husband about this twos. Like, I don't see them. I don't see them. And I was like, well, I do and he he believes me, you know, he knows he just knows he doesn't see them. And after that, he did hear a lot of things that he couldn't explain, but they seem to I was like, okay. These guys squatting in our house. It's like we have go on our house, and I really don't want to deal with them. They're kind of kind of pompous, and they're being the kind of being jerked one of them, supposedly likes me and. And that night ended up. One of them to guys in one woman and the two guys were in a little conference together. I guess from what I saw. And that's the one thing. I realized too is like this is like late at night and my husband works early in the morning, and he would be sleep when some of this happening and was like happening right there. My dog was with acknowledged them and did not bark at them. He'd knowledged them have German shepherd, and it was really strange, but they've been calm up to a point where these two guys were talking and I. I guess they were talking about me and. The woman said to well, I mean, they were having like some kind of little drama in between the three of them. And she's like, well, you're too old. I don't I don't think it's gonna work out. Unlike what I don't even I his happening, and it's in my apartment, and I don't have a lot of stuff going on where it's like, this is really. It's like these people just move in you know, or spurt just moved in. And it was it was upsetting enough. You know, because I felt like I couldn't even use bathroom take a shower without the possibility that there was a spirit right there. And that was really strange. I mean, just felt really invasive and. The guy the one guy who I guess didn't like me when over to the TV set and told me that basically needed to a needed to die. And I was like what I was like she goes well since you've heard of the sense of your fathers, and he had said some other things too. But he literally pointed at the TV set, or I should say, we would you call them, the the flat screens, you know, she reflects screen, and he pointed at it, this is where it gets really strange he pointed at it. And then after he said since of of your fathers, and then he said, you know about. Thing. Mary's little lamb before that he said something about. Lamb now, I don't want to misquote this. But he's talking about the lamb. He pointed out, the TV all of a sudden this horrific pitcher comes on our flat screen, and it's of this disgusting mutant like not a lamb like, a sheep or something sounds crazy to heads and underneath the sheep. It was almost like flat. Looking and have to obviously demon beneath. It was two boys or young men like lane. They're almost like this thing was covering them like a sleeping bag, except the two heads were nine on the on these younger like, you know, two young men and the low was like almost like the sing along song. And it was just total blast me. I mean, it was this vile, and it was strange when I started to realize everything and everything started to click together. Like a menu took me that long. But I got angry. I got very disgusted and angry. I was so repulsed by this. And it was just so sickening. And like, I said, I I wasn't a Christian, and I didn't know any anything. But I knew enough to say, hey, you know, this is. Note you guys are. And this is you know, this some BS here. And then I basically said, you know, get out I didn't say in the name of Jesus I didn't say, you know, anything like that. Because I didn't know better get out. You know, get out. This is this is crazy, you know? And I get out, and I was like I need to. 'cause that's writing a parenting plan for my youngest child. And I was like get out. And and the guys that what I will. I'm Grinch New Mexico things to do get out. And he turned to any of the one that didn't like he was shorter with lighter hair. He said, no, I remember the way he said, no. And I was like, okay. This is not a human spirit. It was the creepiest. No I've ever heard my life. It was extended and this he didn't grow. But it was creepy than that in his just I remember the look on his face, and it was just so evil. And I was like, yeah. I am going to New Mexico, and he just. Smiled at me. And I was like, okay. You guys this? Oh, if you can hear him background sorry. That's my my tallow going to see which I'm in New Mexico now. So I guess they were wrong. That's my Levin year old in the background shouting with joy. But in with I just I was just disgusted, and I was like, no, no. And I saw and that's what I talking about the quote dog men, and quote, he was standing back though, they were standing like MC kitchen, and there's like a little nook and stuff too. And he was with a small Thornton of different demons, and we're talking demons all shapes and sizes even from yes, you standard dogma. Now. This guy is is growing. And there is not going was yellow, and it wasn't read. I it was more almost like a light orange. It was there is growing though. And they were all very calm, nobody attack. Neither all standing there. Like, they're waiting for some kind of word on something. And I just looked around and. She had she had a dog about the size of my job to and I've been seeing I mean, I I can see them. And this was not it was on all fours. And then there was another one there too. And this is what got me I started looking closer at them too. Because what I've been talking to were three very human looking, and they say demons don't have bobby's we've got just like average, and like I said everage white hipsters. This one daemon. I noticed that it had. I thought it looked like a dog is about the size of like her dog, and it had a face that had like a human mouth to it. It had really big is that weren't dog size. It had floppy ears. Unlike the other dog, which look more like, you know, American all station, the larger German shepherd and like a wolf, but like the American, you know, officiant they look like kinda larger wolves and this one had little like deer hooves almost and on its back. It had looked like almost writing like the way jockey would ride like hunched over it looked like a charred child, and I'm not gonna I'm totally like I said, I did have a little bit to drink full-on saw this. So I saw this as low as like the, and I was talking to these guys, you know, and I would tell them to that. I can hear you guys 'cause the two guys talking. I can hear you guys. And I kind of just. Want block it out and do whatever had to make sure that I wasn't going to be haunted for a long time. And when I basically said, okay out, everyone out, you know. I mean, I was just like no this is not cool and graphic to my breath to during this time. Now, I realize too I was in and to me it's real now, I've never tried to go into their own. But we live. I mean, there's so much around us. There's so much around this that I mean here like, right? You know, like where we are. It's not like up, and it's not down. I mean, it's like here. It's just people don't see it. And it's real. Basically, it's like okay party's over. And then everything happened. This is where just kicked into such a scary thing. This is where I had my quote alien cat, which is basically a demon attack. And it's it's of the mind. I mean, this, of course, didn't really happen. But I thought I was going to be objected by 'Lions after that. Because all of a sudden I got rushed by three and it wasn't the people talking to three tall glowing eyes. I got rushed by them. There were like things like leeches. I mean, it was like this full on mine trip that I found out that this is something that does happen people were they get considered crazy. You know, or the end up checked into a hospital because it is frightening. And there's something I don't know infra sound or what there's something that makes your heart race. And you feel this great unease and when you around demons you do. Feel nauseated uneasy panicked in my life. I know what panic is. And I know fears, and I've been I've been objected in eighty eight I was abducted in New York, I was actually held captive. You know done point. And I was stabbed in my leg. I was assaulted, but I would rate, and so I know I mean, I've been through a lot of things in my life that are kind of unusual. So I know fear. I mean, I know things I know how to like survive things this Leumi away. It was so horrible. I. And but like I said it was something evens can do that. They can make you know, they can instill fear in you make you feel unsettled. Make you feel just horrible that you're I mean, there's something to that. They can really fit the mood for you. Basically had a pretty big flip out session. I thought it really was happening. Okay. And if I'd known before if I'd known any of this before withers access stopped it by, you know, thing, you know, by pleading Jesus blood, and, you know, saying, you know, using discernment which I've had and I'm thankful for that gift. I just never I I haven't used it yet. Really? And it was bad to the point where I'm not the one who ever calls the police or fire truck, I tend to like, okay, I'll go to the hospital, Dr someone there if I think that something's wrong with them. But I don't like to make a big production about something. I called the fire department. Because really my feet. Started vibrating. And this is the most this is the frightening thing that I had to talk to a pre afterwards about two because like if I'm going crazy, which I really don't think I am because you know, I was reasoning things on like this hasn't happened before wires this happening my legs rely vibrating to the point that I was scared. I was like I felt like I was almost like if enough that I could be taken away. I mean, I'm not kidding. I felt like I was too much in spirit. I felt like maybe it would look like I just died like cardiac arrest or something. But I was thinking, you know, what I think something is really going on physically. And during that time, I was scared to death. I saw. Basically what you see during an alien attack Amina thaw, which is stuff that wasn't like the demons. I'd seen. I mean, it was it was it was the beam an attack that we felt like alien, you know, objection though, I thought I was like okay before I really lose it. And I have the tech cement to I texted my sister. I was like, I don't know what's going on. This is so crazy, you know? And she would choose the sleep at the time. She didn't get it till the morning, but I was I was really frayed, and I texted my eldest son too. And he thought it was a practical joke going on seven never sitting like that in my life, and he didn't get to tell the next morning to. But I called the fire department 'cause I thought okay, this is I'm not gonna have this happen. And it's really happening that at least they'll be somebody to witness it, you know, because the thing is I could not get. It was like Billy wasn't there. And that was the scary thing. I mean, I think I went too far in, you know, just became too much to engage with these, you know, with them, and I got pulled in and I ended up going to highlight again, and I was really freaked out at the time the morning, so a lot better. And I was so embarrassed that I was like I was scared. I was really scared. I, you know, like I've learned since then to kind of like us, and maybe this is missing for one one. Maybe this is what happens is some people. You know, maybe maybe there's something where they're just in a different dimension. You know, and maybe they don't come out of that. Or at least spiritually they don't come out of that. And they end up just dying. And then someone finds their body, you know, but. I went to off little and I was like, I'm sure getting. A psychiatric evaluation now because I wanna make sure that you know, that I know of you know, what's really going on. I have too much to lose. You know? I can't I can't have this happy in my life is too crazy. And I ended up talking to a priest. My don't even go to church. I I went to the Catholic church closest to me, and I talked to the priest and I said, you know, what after I was in the hospital and stuff, and I knew that. And she would bear the one woman was there in the morning to and I heard a voice, and I was like, okay. I'm hearing voices my head. This is classic. It's a frontier I talked to the priest. He said he'd heard all of that. When I went home, and I took a shower if like the shower with moving, okay, I mean when I went through department, I felt dizzy, and I was like bumping into things not drunk but felt like the floor shifted on me. And I was like oh my gosh. This is scary. I just felt really kind of felt really fragile. And if like sometimes quick to inside my apartment when I went to talk to the priest. I felt that same vibration in my feet going up me, and I felt really really nervous. And I was like, whoa. And I told him I said, you know, right now, if he's like, yes, you know, he he had heard all of this before I said, even when it seems like there's an earthquake going on where live and even when I'm outside the apartment tooth flexing shift is like yes, yes. And it's not being possessed, but it's called oppression. You know, it it to me. This was like amazing. Of course, I got some holy water. And like I said, I didn't go to that church. But he said that he would come by. And bless our our, you know apartment to. So I looked into a lot of things I learned about you know, I said a lot of spiritual warfare prayers. I was scared to sleep there at night. And this you know, I was like I wanted evaluation of getting like in almost two weeks. Like, I want one right away, you know? But getting the Chitral, you know, the kind of it takes awhile sometime, and you know, I was just so afraid in the thing is I talked to actually talk to my ex's parents who are really high up there will known in the church Catholic, and I told them to and they're like, okay, I 'cause they talked to their pre, you know. And they and he said just make sure you get an evaluation just because just for your own, you know, being too 'cause they don't know how to deal with it. I mean, that's the one thing the church. There's not actresses in Seattle. I learned you know, there's some people you can pay a lot of money to outside of that. But the Catholic church is not prepared, you know, and I even found an old article that said they needed that. And it's it's during to increase there's a lot more activity. I guess, but like I said, I was just kind of oblivious. So I was scared to sleep there night because I would feel these vibrations, and I would here, and like I said, you know, with the music too. I would hear that in my head. You know? So it was like, okay. This is so horrible. I I don't wanna be crazy. You know? And I don't wanna say anyone's crazy schizophrenia. I mean, well, it's mental illness, and I. I so my heart was out to anyone suffering from that. And I feel really I maybe I should say can ship. You know? I mean, I'm sure they've been through worse. But I just it must be so horrible, you know, to deal with that more than once, you know, and it I was weeping in my husband's truck, I was sleeping in my Camaro at the time. I would just drive out because I realized it seemed like there was more activity around three AM, and I would literally just drive down international boulevard and go to like an all night restaurant. You know, 'cause I didn't want to I didn't wanna be there. My husband sleeps at night like he's out. He's really out. And if you wake him up, he's not really quite himself for like twenty minutes. So a couple of times that happened. I just I felt very I felt like. It was not a good idea for me to be there. And I didn't even know about Turco spirits. I did not know that it was that area too. And not that they can't follow you out of that area. But there's something about that area. And I one night I went up to the Karna so soft it I just saw trucking not my husband's Trump and fell asleep and the truck, and I had the car heart over me as go kart jacket over me. Nobody Seaver just think there's like this little lump of a car hard in the driver seat. And of course about through clock in the morning. I wake up to this time fluttering sound and these lights and stuff and in our -partment will it's like these townhouses kind of Parkway setting those these toll for treat. So looks like these light shining through tree branches. It was like the fluttering light outside in. Parking lot really dark. There's not enough lighting for to be safe for people, you know, for like human, you know, problems, let alone, you know, supernatural ones, and I woke up kind of peaked over the jacket until fluttering and like lights fluttering, and then I heard voices. And this is so crazy, but I was away not Jimmy because I drove that Trump. I I heard some voices and complaints like they're like there's like a group of people talking to each other. And I was like I'm sorry, Tony. I haven't told you everything like with the alien attack thing because some of the demons. Okay. Some of them literally look like flying monkeys. I'm not kidding. Some of them. Look, right. No. Yeah. Yeah. They look like flying monkeys minus the wings. I'm not. Yeah. And it was really weird. I'm talking all different types of creatures. There's ones that look on leeches all these weird different types of creatures. And since then I've heard that I guess that's kind of normal all different shapes sizes all from the most grotesque things some with like gelatinous blobs. I really there's just like very individual looking creatures. And I have heard that every year. There's alien type entities that look like prey mantis. Even what do you call from Star Wars the big hairy guy to? Yeah. He's a great guy though. Yeah. But but yeah. But yeah, there are ones that look like that. I didn't see any that look like that. Or look like sasquatch, I didn't see any and I've had that's the thing. We can get to I grew up in the north west, and yeah, we're very familiar they're here. But I didn't see anything that looked like that. But I see something that only saw the bottom part. Choose almost like hanging in my kitchen. It was like this dark drape thing. And I it didn't touch the floor. But it was like is almost like the ceiling got in the way, the ceiling touted off and after I decided to north and I was gonna not all of them. I would still see like flashes. And if I looked into like, the old TV set, the my son used for like gaming and stuff is like older was flat screen. It was like the old last kind. I could see them. And they're almost like imprint. On the wall. So there is like they're still hanging out and waiting or they left their imprint there. It was really creepy. But during this, okay, my husband's truck, I wake up at three o'clock in the morning or about then. And I hear this like chatter amongst them and something runs under the truck like really fast scurries on their trucks had to be little 'cause this is like a little Ford ranger. And it pulled them. I had locked band pulled in like hit hit the door and something pulled on the handle. So these aren't like humans at like. Oh, yeah. There's some girls sleeping or truck. It's a high crime area where I live known for that in willow by the light rail. So I just put the truck into reverse stick shift. I just put it into reverse. And I heard they're like, she's she's there something in perfect English. Or maybe I heard in my head. But you know, what I'm saying like they were like this little gang of them and not like three like the rest of the little motley crew of the other people. And I just like back down in my husband's truck, not good with the six shifts badly, but I just tore out of there in reverse screeched out of the lot. And then I just like drove and drove and drove and then I had to get gas. And I drove the more. And then I heard her voice, and it was always like a song. And she was singing about what they're going to do. The my husband because I wasn't there like somehow. Did your husband? They're going to kill him. Instead, why did I do that? And why I mean, it was really weird and like the sing song way. And I was like, okay. This just sounds too crazy until anyone, but but the thing was I should say at that time at that time. I was deeply fearful like oh my gosh. No, the hillbilly, you know, like, no not name. But anyways. And I don't people know me, they know that you know, I'm cool with that. But I just was like so I was worried about him. You know is worried about him. And I was like, okay. I gotta go back there. I go back. It's this is on a weekend and my husband sitting there. You know, I come in and hear her voice. And I look at believe I was like, okay. He's not dead. He's working on something working on some Woodworkers something in this little a clove by the kitchen and kitchen have like this little bar. On it from there. What would be the dining room into the kitchen, and I saw her like, and she said something that a high your home something like that? And I was like I thought they'd be. I thought he he knew then too is like there's nothing here. There's nothing here will after that. And after that night, he heard one time you like what's the drier doing is like? Any came in. I was like the not on. He's like oh. And he admitted to he heard growling, and then he heard it again one time too. But he never saw anything. He also heard when night he was your found. But I was seeing all this stuff. So he wouldn't. I mean, he did you hear that? Like, yeah. I see it. And I hear it. But he was you know, he would hear things on occasion our neighbor leftist. She wrote a little note to us to our door asking. 'cause I guess we weren't home at the time. But she would do, you know, do you have snow in your apartment to and she's like, I don't know. I can't get rid of. We're smell ever smelled. You know, and she I didn't smell anything. But my neighbors smoke something so fell she had the guys, you know, the maintenance people check it out, and they can find anything, and she thought something might have died in the walls. You're in this apartment building. How many apartments are in the building? Okay. Their town houses in a park like setting. It's so it looks like these little there's some okay, there's one to the only second only two story, and we are on the main floor, you know, the ground floor, and then there's some infront too. So there's in our Thor's four, and there's like little maintenance thing too. But they look like look nice, but they're not. But there's more like, you know, little town houses, you know? And they're some of them, I think have six and then some of them are like four two bedroom apartment with like fireplaces, they're supposed to look like little houses. So she was on the ground floor next to us. We share the wall. It seems like there's a lot of activity going on there. But you also had this activity going on before you move there. Always. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean. Do you think this is do you think this is a you problem, or do you even view this as a problem or do you consider yourself somebody who is more sensitive than others just Ceesay's things? Well, a long time ago when I was in foster care, I was in Christian home is agency called the burden bearers, and they weren't they it was born again Christians, I guess, but they weren't. Well, the guy wasn't the nicest person, but I went to church, and there I like heard someone talking tongues and stuff, and I was told I had interpretation raider on it was discernment. So maybe I could see things. I don't know. I mean, it's something that I'm sure could I could lose, you know. I mean, a learn sensitive. That's all something that God gives us, you know, to be able to discern and to have our eyes open to what's really going on. But I think I always would see things I do have to tell you this step back for philan- met these guys these three Biman's, they're buddies. We lived in a house that was like. It was well one hundred years old. I'm the house that I saw revolves had old houses before this like apartment living. We always we own one in black diamond. And then we live rented them Seattle. And this one house I when night I was leaping right next to my husband. And I had I guess you call astral projection, you know, I mean, basically, I felt you know, it wasn't a dream. I felt myself slip out, and I up before where Philip I was like touching feeling to. I've always had that were kind of like flip out of, you know, myself at night, even as a kid, and I did that. And it was really like, wait a minute. I tried to like Schick myself back to like licking up or to get back because I remember felt like I kind of like slipped off the bed like through. Like down through the basement and everything was, you know, I guess in the spirit room or whatever. And I kind of. Shift myself out of that state. But at the time when it happened to meet felt like when I was flying off the bed like kind of gently being pulled off the bed. And so when I do like, you're being pulled not pooled violently. But like I was flipping off the bed but come like. Yeah. So like, I was getting help with it. You know, I felt like someone was very gently replying me off. Yeah. I mean, not not like grabbed and pulled. But like flying me off perhaps the blanket to just very gentle, and when I will cut I heard this might be the same person growl inland is an this happened before that the growl of I want you. And that's what is it was in a growling, very low voice. I want you in the slow growl. And I just I I woke my husband. I said did you hear this and? He didn't hear anything. And I just I actually posted something online so trying to figure out what was going on. And this woman pulled me too. And this is okay. This would have been. Two thousand thirteen I think because these are important elements to the story, and I'm sorry. I didn't before but for. I when I posted this, you know, the woman asked me, I think she asked me, my blood type of like will I'm negative and she's like, oh, well, you know, of course, you know, they're going to get like, well, I think she said like your tasty to rip Gillian's or something. It's like people. I don't know there's different views on it. But I was really thankful for the input people gave and this one guy. I think he's a pastor and some other state that Jamir actress, I wanna send you some books. He sent me like five books really sweet man to do this. And it was called demons in disguise the alien. You know, like the the fake ailing air taxis meal. This was before this happened of poor thought it was too busy to read all the books. I read a couple parts of some of the books but afterwards after what happened to me. Now like how if I'd only read all of this before? But. He just free of charge. You sent me all these books after I posted this one question about what happened to me. And. So Tony what I'm trying to say. Sorry runabout way is I think now that I look back on it that could have been the same one of the threes the one that like me before and it's still interpretor that house that we rented that the I want you in a slow grout hurts me when I was out of my body experience. I think that's the same one that, you know, grout later on the other apartment, and I do think it is. I think it's kind of a personal pro. I think I have a problem, and like that other ones that to me too said the sins of of your father's, you know? And he said, I mean, basically that was why they had the legal right to me. I guess or something. Generational. They don't have that. You're so right. And now now I'm really feisty about that. Yes, they have so many pep talks. And I to the point where I would love to help other people. Let's you know, I'm not so scattered about things when them were cut alled about stuff, I believe 'cause I I've been doing it. And my husband was like he's like, well, how is no flies now. It's like after I, you know, I said, I, you know, by the power of God and name of Jesus Christ. You know command all you know, I say get out, you know, everything that's evil. You know, and all demon. And I've been really good with it. I I have my little spiritual warfare prayer list on my phone and song ninety one you mentioned that too before about a man having tattooed. I think. Yes, that's very powerful. And foes, the one for you know, will anything where you call upon and Jesus name is most powerful powerful weapon, you know, and having faith to I mean, the holy water. Nothing else. It's about having faith and that one thing for the first time in my life. I've got this strength from you know, I mean, it's. It's nothing. I mean, I'm like nothing, but I felt the strength. I felt like power, you know, of did you happen? The word. I'm sorry. Did you happen to listen to this past week episode where I had the guy come on? And he was sharing about his abductions. I might have heard partisan. I think my husband listened to it. Towards the end of the interview he was talking about how he became a Christian. And these things haven't happened since the last time the Duchesne hasn't happened since he became a Christian, and he's actually kinda like he wants to test his new power almost of claiming Jesus Jesus over it. And he I told him I said you're talking like you have superpowers right now. Like the confidence he was talking like. And that's how you sound right now, you sound like you have such confidence. Like like, you have a secret superpower weapon that they just can't touch after thing. Nothing. You it having faith the power from God, you know. And that's the thing just like gift of discernment. It's from God. It's not we're just like with the blade of grass. You know? I mean, we basically, but. We call upon mean having faith, and that's you can move mountains with faith. I mean, that's the whole thing is. When you feel that. And you really, you know, and that's thing. I know now, and I do I feel like it is. But it's through God, you know. I mean, it's completely. It's amazing. Not the thing. That's the only thing and people said it before too. Like, I said, I I mean, I didn't go to church. I wasn't a Christian. You know, I've been in a really bad Proustian foster home or quote, Christian Ausra home. But you know, I I didn't have any background on this. When I you don't need it. And I mean that was run to that was what Jesus did he cast out demons? He worked with the poor, you know, and he didn't. I mean, it doesn't seem like a lot of churches, really. Take that. They don't understand. They just think you're crazy. You know, or I mean, it's like no we don't talk about demons get that evaluation. It's and you're right sorry to cut you off. But you're absolutely right. It's like, you know. A lot of churches, not all church, but a lot of churches operate almost as if they're scared of these things, and let's not talk about it. Because we don't want to attract them. It's like hold on a second. Who's who's team? Are you fighting for you know, what I mean? Like, do you realise? Do you realise who your team, captain is, you know? Yeah. And that's what Jesus in. He said that you know. I mean, he wanted us to do it to we don't need somebody really fancy doing it. Or even a mean, we can we can call upon you know, we can do that in the name, you know. And by the power of God, we all can you know? I mean, that's the thing we can do that. And they say about self, you know, like, you know, we we were told to do that. And that's why I mean, I just yeah. I feel so empowered. I feel really empowered by that. And I'm so thankful, and I feel like I'm gonna start. Crowing new but all this day. I was like commuters like, wow, you know, like do feel what have father, you know? I mean, if feel like we all do, but I was just like I felt so and after this expanse, and there's more I should tell you because I was actually. There's no reason I mean Bassim it's like how did this happen to you? I got smacked so hard from the front from the back almost like a car ran into me. And then something hit me from the back when he was my husband was like right behind me. He was locking up his truck, and I was walking towards the apartment door and something hit me. And it wasn't like or maybe somebody on a bike or something. Well, no, they didn't hit me from both direction and felt like my nose. I mean, I had like scrapes had road rash on my face. Almost like it was cement that. There was no cement there. It was like dirt and some grass, you know, and something hit me from the back to. I mean, I've been susa- cly hurts one time. This is really crazy. And yeah, I've seen this maybe afterwards too. I went to to bartelldrugs to get my prescription for doxycycline and. And I went there this person came up to my car, and like thing Bill window and wanted money and was like, I'm sorry. I don't have any money. I've just have my visa, and then I went to store, and that person was gone is a large woman and driving the Camaro back. It started to rain lightly, and all of a sudden and some so much like a Hollywood movie all of a sudden a woman jumped literally jumped in front of the Camaro and the guy in back of me too. And I was going like five miles or even more than less, you know, real slow swimming, just jumped and fortunately it being a Camaro I didn't kill her because she ended up on the top of it. You know, the pretty low, and I called the police immediately and the men behind me to any stop. So I wouldn't get hit. You know, went around women was you know, I I got one how she was. And this woman. Oh my gosh. Or jobs broken. No. It turned out it wasn't. But her face it than like, really deformed and something before with this woman looked like she was really oppress. She was so glazed over is totally out of it. When the policemen arrived and fire truck and everything I mean, he acted like he was annoyed with her. And he asked me if there was any damage to my car. You know, like big new I mean, and he said, well, there's a lot of homeless people here, and they tend to cross this way. 'cause she told me she literally jumped in front of my car, and I've never had an accident in my life. You know, been hit on the back. I mean uppers a couple of times, that's it. So that was really crazy. And I knew I was like kind of like, you know, she was oppressed by something and something I mean, it sounds like. There might have been something to that. You know? And I noticed there's a whole lot of accident that happened around there. But I feel like that was. One of the strange things that was kind of a sociology with demonic presence. And I'm just so thankful when I was getting out of there. I let me check because there's some things I should've said to probably but. I don't want to give you like the flim down version things. But I would physically I've been hurt by this. And we're it makes no sense at all, you know. And when that yeah. But this was like I mean, I was I was scared. Nobody wants to hit somebody even if you know, sometimes people your trucker. I've heard that sometimes sadly truckers are victims of life when somebody wants to kill themselves jump in front of a truck. You know, like, they, you know, just by like, a large vehicle, and sometimes people crazy things that you wouldn't expect in you know, you have to be cautious. But this was this was so weird. I was in the second lane and the guy behind me to city, I didn't even see her. But she jumped you know, out, and, you know, I gave the police officer all my information and stuff, and he was just like, you're okay. You know? And I totally you know, I never heard anything back from him. But. That. I thought was connected. I felt like some other things where things seem to really get even more crazy because I bought a house in New Mexico, and they knew and that's when I finally like bought the house cash and stuff, and they knew it. That's one third get worse. And I should say too. Because I told you before the interview that I did get a psychiatric evaluation, and I'm not schizophrenic and along. It was it was in this. It was this year in March, and what happened to when I had my little that alien attack. I mean when I called the fire department because I wanted to go I was so scared that was October twenty of last year. So I had the valuation. It took I should say too. 'cause I wanted when then then I raised while things got 'cause I it was too expensive to true when I made the appointment which ended up being in March two so that. Was really, you know, I I was like well doesn't schizophrenia hit people in the twenty. You know, it's not usually when they're older, and and he agreed with me too. You know, and I do. Have eighty ADHD PTSD, but you know, is the PTSD from your childhood and all the things that you went through not the with the paranormal, but your real life the things that you went. I realize okay stuff. Yeah. Definitely real life stuff to. Yeah. But I have to say it was so and for me to go the things I've been through. I'm just saying this to me was so real to you know, spiritual side of this is so real, it's just Israel. So that may sound a little weird. But it was it's very real to me. I mean, this was something that you know, I was terrified. And this is where it's to be the. Hunky over because I wanted to not skip anything. I I wanted to make sure that you know, this is a very personal after I bought a house. They came back full force. I mean, they came out such. In such a way, and I just bought a actual more like a truck Chevy Tahoe. And I ended up having I would get in the Chevy Tahoe. And it felt like somebody like when little kids kick the back seat or the front seat when they're in the back. It felt like that. And I would hear that one the one that supposedly like me I would hear that. I would hear like little like Pantene growls. And I knew it was him. You know, and it was human looking suppose nail demon whatever. And it was really strange one time, I was laying on the bed in the living room from it's just nicer the way, the places laid out, and it was just laying on the bed, and I was reading. Kicking back. And then I heard in one ear was like in my head was like in one ear like someone's meaning down, and I felt a little bit of dark hair. I heard don't move. I don't know if that meant don't move to Mexico or move on the bed, and I would go in two places that I see like out of you know, after I refused the knowledge that and stuff I would see in my peripheral vision, I would see like little bits like somebody standing right next to me. Then flash. You know? And I would see I would see specially that one guy in his like would you want to present to me which looked like a? Occasion, hipster walking around wearing different clothes like flashes. Read like flashes of him. If I was him like around the apartment around different areas, I saw that and I chose to ignore it and call upon you know, con-, you know. I would pray and. Pretty the lot. I prayed I would pray for over our, you know, pray a lot by from thirty to three thirty on at night. I wouldn't plea around three because I was scared. I even after the signing, and the most terrifying thing for me is if I started feel like my brain and my feet almost like it's like be me up kind of thing. I really felt like I literally be. Pooled in somewhere. And you know, maybe not. I mean, maybe that would be it. And I still be honest with you, I still too so right before we were going to move, and we still have that apartment before paying rent on it took Rula until next may, but we had moved my airstream out of integer strewn that were we moved some stuff down to the house here. So we had in the parking lot of the apartment, and he described been I don't know. It's like I was I felt very hunted. I mean, he was around but the same time as the strangest feeling wasn't completely fearful. But I knew like this. Guys, like lewd to me, you know. And I would try think people away then you come back, and I just prayed and prayed. When for for, you know, for spiritual. Armor, the armor of God. Putting on the armor of God. I prayed that so many times, you know. I mean there and it works, but they come back. I mean, you know, it's like God keeps us safe. It doesn't mean that they're gone. They're here this world. I mean. Here. I mean ten are here. And but he got me safe. And this guy was always, you know, his dislike kinda like a Stocker demon. And when we were moving stuff. I don't wanna miss other parts of this that might have been crucial to story. So please let me know, Tony if I have, but this is where it just. It got really ugly. Second thinking always in the back of my head. I was like that one told me that I was never going to go to Mexico or you're not going to Mexico when I say, and he went, no. So it's like, okay. This is kind of freaky. Maybe they're building up to something, you know. And I was moving things in on. Right. When I said that a fly flight like hit me on the bridge my nose, but I I was moving things into airstream, which is just directly up Filo Hartnett, and I came back in and the husband, and I we were we've been you know, I mean we were kinda arguing I've been feeling terrible hadn't got enough weep. And I kind of blew fuse. You know, we we kind of we've we've verbally thought. You know, there are no kids around, but we it was horrible. And I felt so horrible. And right when enough worth thing like people new age people say about the Auras, you know, don't get holes in your or, you know, don't let your, you know, keep strong, you know, keep a strong arm to will. Negative when you negative or you feeling that and stuff, then what they call their lure Libration, or you know, that happened it. I mean, I do believe it's a it's a Christian thing too. In the sense that if you we knew it set, it gives them a little bit of access to you. I mean, I felt that. And I felt like that horrible feeling of like the vibration coming on my feet like Ono. No. And the my husband said, he he's like, well, I'm gonna go out to furred Myers. You know what? You know, what store and I'll be back in a little bit. And when he said that and I felt this before like in bed to like, the vibration, and then this is the crazy thing was what I've seen what I can say about demon is they can consume what full on in physical form physical size of human being. And then they can be things like they can look like almost like the size of a small a small dog or cat like with the blanket, you'll feel blanket. And not for thing, and you can feel like when they move, you know, not just like like a human being when you hear about like suck you both or incubus, you know, and not Israel is very real. But that's one thing you can feel like to someone right next to you or it can feel like somebody can select energy that's going to your body internally. And I feel like I at that time. I felt right before we left. Actually, it was two days before we left. We went on the road to Mexico. I felt internally, but I was assaulted, you know, I mean and smell like you can't like punch someone or try to like, get them off view. You know, I I really am not what I meant is. This is you know, still to me. I mean, physically I has physical affects of this. And I felt very assaulted. It was like maybe that was his last chance because he he was territorial spirit when that area. I don't know that I was I mean, I I went out to my Chevy Tahoe. And I stayed there until my husband got back can even be in the carbon. I couldn't I mean works. I do it's like I can't punch guy. You know? What can I do? And it was like internally I was assaulted. So with 'cause I had a feeling that's where this was gearing up to that that entity. Was it something that you fell in the moment? Or was it something that like you felt after at already happened were you very aware? What was going on in the moment? Yes. Just like it could have been a human person, except there was no human on the outside of me. It was as as much as if it's somebody very forceful. But there is no human contact on the outside of me. It was all internal, and it was very real very real in the moment and very real afterwards. And I hadn't physical reprove repercussions afterwards too. And this just happened. I mean, we just you know, we just moved. This is within the last two weeks. And yeah that recent. Yes. And that's where I was like this. It's embarrassing. But I think I do believe that this happens to a lot more people than. People think, you know. And if this helps anybody else, and they're going through it, you know, just call on. I mean, even if you're not Christian, you know, I mean this having a lot of people in love, my friends weren't Christian know about this full on like about Jin, the, you know, same. I'm demon. You know? But yeah that and it was just as. Horrific. You know, some not demeaning anyone else. Who's been physically attacked? I've been physically attacked human being to in some really bad ways. You know, I can act on this day. I know you know, that it was it. It's been. It it was as traumatizing. Can I ask you a question with with that happening? So recently. And I'm assuming you told your husband. How did he react? What did he say? I mean, the cause I'm a husband. And if my wife came to me, Tommy something like that happened. I would feel powerless. I wouldn't know what to do. Exactly what let the can. I do you know what the what can I do? What can I do? What can I help? What can I do? Honey, you know? I mean, he's I it's put everything on a new level for him with the this happening to you know, he doesn't show emotion, but it's been upsetting for him on the way down here. We ended up waylaid for an not things demonic. It was because I just bought a new car, we didn't know, but the transmission failed. So we were like six days. Late late transmission was rebuilt in mount Shasta. We stay mount Shasta for six days, and I'm talking to my sister, and she'd been praying for me and to very concerned about this. She lived in Albuquerque here, and she she. She said, we'll make sure the fall, you know, you don't know sometimes they don't show, you know, and they're the tormentors they want, you know. It's all about torment and was talking to. I felt I thought was right behind me. I felt a presence somebody right behind me. I turned around and Billy was on the corner. Like quite a ways away from me. I mean, he was so far away from me. So I knew somebody was right beside me. So if that is the case, you know, and I know that they say talking about it can be bad that I'd rather talk about it. And maybe somebody else, you know, this is happened to them to unknown people. I don't know why it happened to me. I'm not that. I'm not special. I'm not anything. I don't know. It's I don't know why it happened to me. I I don't know why some demon Hitler. You know, I'm pretty much not, you know, I think I was of anything that you know, deeming would wanna mess with, you know, just like me. And I think there's different who knows first of all no one really knows why things happen to us. But this has been happening your whole life. And you had a lot of things that kids. Typically, don't go through like most kids, don't go through a Dobson. They don't go through foster homes and demons and these kind of things they do pri- on the week. They do go after the vulnerable in. What's vulnerable a child going through these transitions in life going, you know, through adoptions and foster homes like like, you're you were ATar like in my mind, you were probably targeted because you didn't have the stability that a lot of kids have grown up. You know, like, and so I mean, you were you're probably targeted from an early age because of the fact of the ease of it, you know, it's like easy lunch. And then they just kinda tried stain with you attach themselves to throughout your life. I mean, I don't know if that could be very wrong on that. But I mean, what do you think about that? I agree. I agree. Yeah. It that makes that makes perfect sense to me when I look back at it. And you know, I think about kids I know and kids in situations. And my eleven year old is non verbal up to. And my other three like I said they're built now. But my you know, I've had some concerns about that. You know, I wanna make sure, you know, an approver him, and he's really intelligent. He's just amazing. And you know, I I want him to communicate. And you know, I think that yet kids who is only like that too. You know, and I think cystic children might be targets. Sure. I mean. Lago. UP surprised how many people experienced stuff that also experienced a abuse as a child or awful childhoods and things like that. They they they're they're cowards. And they pride on the week. They don't go. They don't go after that. They're not like, you know, a lion. You know will go after anything because it can these guys are like freaking hyenas. I mean, they go after the avalanche. They go after they wait for the line to kill the food. And then they go after the easy food. That's what this is. I mean, they go after the easy food, and that's what are cowards gender lie to you know, like they were they like you said about them having no authority. That's true. And they made themselves down. So, you know. So much in power. And it was just. It was nothing that you know. I guess I was kind of sucker at the heart. And now now nobody, you know, I know one I I can't touch by that, you know, things can happen. You know, I know, and you know, I've been opened. And there's no way that that they're going to pull that on the again. And you know, I just I really I hope that anyone else, you know, just uses and they don't have to be Christian. But hopefully that'll get them into things too. Like, I am, you know, and I just I'm really really thankful that my eyes open. They can. See? That you know, everything that led up to this. You know? And I wish you know. Of course, I wish I hadn't gotten upset right before we left in that hasn't happened. You know, I do know. I guess that might have been temporary possession. I don't know or just or just maybe just oppression. I don't know what kind of words people put on that. But you know, that just. I know now that there's no reason I mean, just staying positive there's something to that. When you staying positive, especially you know, 'cause kids can pick a couple to we didn't have any kids that time my son lives in New Mexico. But you know, it's it's important this strong because any chance any door left cracked open. They will come in. And it's it's so much harder. Giving you know getting them to leave for like the worst case scenario for like squatters or just like the most. There. The worst. I mean, infestation you could possibly imagine on the most personal and everyone has to save richly strong. Because I think it's getting worse. You know? There's just I really hope that you know, I think there's more power and people coming together and just realizing it, and like churches starting to acknowledge that too and just getting back to the basic teachings of Jesus to you know, that we should pretty open about casting out. You know? This kind of wants 'cause that. I my sister praying for this place to but before I even got on our property, and we have like a house with a bar and a little bit courageous and stuff. It's really nice but cute little red barn. But I made sure we blessed it everything was covered. We're driving down the road was covered in blood of Jesus. I mean, everything, you know, like, my sister's praying for me, my ex's parents were praying for us, you know, and we just, you know, having faith it's so important, and I haven't gotten into all this have they. Yeah. Before that, I was physically attacked I have to choose consent of my face looks like it looks like I have like poor paint on like type. My cheeks have road rash. You know, look horrible. I had my both my eyes black blackened from that impact. And they can do physical things to you. Pretty. Pretty gnarly. So, you know, I I know now, and when I started out when I wanted to talk to you about the a new this, you know, thing to I I believe that was Domon too. But I believe that you know. It's. You know, I always just thought everything was, you know, I've never thought anything would go on the attack me, you know. 'cause I I'm not a bad person. I'm not perfect. You know, I I mean, not things right? All the time. But I'm not, you know, I'm not. A bad person. I'm not evil. I would not attract you know, that kind of. Thing. I, you know, I just you know, I see things, you know, that there are no there, you know. And I think even thought it was like more almost like a guardian angel. But they're all connected. You know mean this is all and you're on one side or the other, you know, you know, like in some little middle. You know, like, okay, there's all this stuff going on. It's like one or the other and perfect. God, you know. Yossi question here. So you had these experiences stretcher life at some point throughout your life. You had become a Christian and you start using the new Jesus to review these things. When the air. Okay. So so is this year. Okay. Case I I wasn't sure. 'cause the time line here it's hard to keep track of now this year, the very first time that you ever used the name of Jesus to cast out or not to cast out. But to cast away any demonic entity near you, the very first time you used that. Were you a Christian that moment or were you just using the name of Jesus before you were actually believing in Jesus? And before you answer that actually go head Nisa. I okay, I actually used. This name and seventeen and before I had, you know, before I became a Christian, and you know, because what happened to me happened October twenty eight. Last year. Did it did it work? Yes. Okay. Thank you. I I always curious to that situation. Because I hear people say that if you're not a Christian claiming the name Jesus doesn't work over demonic entities. I don't necessarily agree with that. And yeah. Because jesus. Right. Right. And so I was just I was always curious every time I have a chance to ask that question. I try to because you know, I have heard of people saying that they are Christian. They claimed the new Jesus and nothing has changed. So I don't know what the I don't know what the difference is. But I only want to venture to guess because that's very shaky grounds to walk on for me. I don't wanna venture guesses as to why. That's the case. But but yeah, I was very curious about that. They come back, and they come back even of Christian. I think Christian are gonna get hit hard with this too. But I mean, we're protected, you know, we we have our armor on. But there around the mean, this this place everything I mean, it's. The world is pretty infested. You know? I mean, put it mildly and. It's just, you know, everyone has to be prepared in the the joint, you know, and keep faith, you know, and that's more important than holy water. Did my even my own holy water. Anointing oil everything I I threw out things. 'cause I I was told that it was so funny like the clearest one time I was like asking asking what I should do in. So many ways is shows. Okay. Yes. I tend to be a little I cleaned things. But yeah, I have a lot of clutter, and I heard very clearly clean. I mean, it was just like I need to clean things. And I need to get rid of stuff. I had a ton of really beautiful stuff that would not appropriate against you could say, and I threw it out. And you know, I used to be one of those like pinup girls, you know, like the rockabilly. Style. Like, the black hair and the horns, and I never thought anything about that. And there's all these pictures of me as the devil girl. You know? I thought it was just a cute little pinup thing, you know, 'cause always kind of the dark, you know, one. So. Physically. So I threw out a bunch of that. And you know, you don't have to like never. I mean, I listen to good music. You know, I mean, the love good lease and vision, and I'm not gonna you know, I I know what reading wrong in that sense that. Yeah, I did get rid of certain things physically to and I didn't even see maybe that attracted them to. I don't know. But you know, I I would say don't listen to other people somebody, you know, you can't do this. You can't do that. Just I mean have a personal relationship. You know, we've thought I mean, I don't know churches are a human, you know, that's a people thing. And kind of social thing, you know. And it's I was seen people on TV that made me physically sick like creatures on TV getting off when I see him. Yeah. Exactly. And sometimes, you know, people someone judges. I mean, nobody, you know, nothing you have to forgive. I forgave the people humans in my life that had assaulted me and attack me as a child, and of you know, like, my my doctor who was going to kill me who attacked me in New York. And then she navy. I forgave him. You have to forgive everybody. You know? I mean, you have to forgive. In that really footsie free. You know, that was one thing. I haven't done. I I realized that I kind of. Keeping myself in a state of you know. Unforgiving. You know, an anger, you know, about things about very bad things that happened. And you have to forget everything. So they should be the one preaching like I said, you know, read the bible, I would say anything, it's fun. I mean, you're here to share your experiences and stuff, and I do think you're right. I think that it's not easy to do. I mean, I've been hurt in my life. And I I've have scars from my childhood, and it's my my childhood haunted me most of my life. It still does to this day. It just not at like it was one time. But I came from a very rough neighborhood all the kids in my neighborhood pounded on me for like ten twelve years, and I became very angry. Hateful individual. I did. I did not like people for. Most of my life believe it or not I did not trust people. And when it came to those people in my childhood, I never forgave them. And there was times as an adult. I'm married. I think I was like five six years in the my marriage, and I found myself driving back up through the old neighborhood looking for them looking for a fight as a grown, man. And so I think forgiveness is a key. Because when it comes to these kind of things they could definitely use that as an attraction to you. You know, what I mean like like that? Yeah. That's the door cracked openness char where they can come in. It's it's like it's like saying, it's it's I don't know how to put it into words. But it's kinda like saying that you're worthless. You've always been worthless. And this is why we're here, and we're gonna remind you that. And when you can let go of the past and move on things change. And when you especially when you invite Jesus Christ into your life, and I know this preachy, but it is what it is. What would you have him on your side things change, you know, like they answered a him when he's not when he's when you're not playing on his team. You're open game. You know? But when when you when you yield yourself to Jesus Christ, they answered a him, and that's it, and it says it throughout the bible over and over again, they know who he is. They know who he is. And so I don't know how I got all that. But. That perfect. I mean that from a lot, you know, and scars from from our childhood, you know, things that. That we, you know as adults hold onto, especially when when we have children one protect them from that and the best ways forgiveness, you know, it, right? And and you know, this is all very current event for you. You know, this isn't stuff to happen to you five years ago. This is something happening two weeks ago. You were you were Christian two weeks ago, and they're still coming at you, you know, and so the TAC there's Christian exactly exactly my point just because you have Christ in your life and your following Jesus Christ doesn't mean that the tax stop and sometimes like two weeks ago, you experienced the worst tack you ever experienced because now they're upping their game. You're no longer. Listen. It's like this you if you're in a basketball or if sports which try fall with me if you're a basketball game. And you're you're a five on five game. And you're one of five people on the floor. Right. They're playing for your team. And you stand at half court on offense. And on defense, does is the is the opposing team gonna pay attention to you. They're not gonna pay attention to you because you're not a threat to them. But the moment you put yourself in the game and you start playing some offense, and they have to actually try stopping you. That's when you see the defense coming at you before you never even saw the defense. But now you see. Exactly. Because now you're now you're in the game. And right now, you're in the game. And so they actually played some offense of defense against you. Does that make sense perfect? Yes. Okay. That comes it up. Yeah. That's that's a good Nahla g. Okay. Well, good. Yeah. I I love that ball. So. That's good. No, I tell you what you got some you got lifelong experiences here. And I don't think you're alone. I think there's a lot of people out there. Experience a lot of things like you. In fact, I know there are because I've heard countless stories of people not personally, I haven't talked to them. But I've heard of these stories of people dealing with incubus suck us, and and it's not cool. And that's just one aspect of what you've experienced. And there's so many things we can go into here. I wanted to ask you kind of taking this back a little bit on a couple of things that you mentioned just wanted to ask you some, you know, generic questions here just to kind of tie up some loose ends when the one entity was standing next to TV. And I think you said the TV turned on or something that things were you're seeing things on the TV. And you did you describe a goat or goats on there? Sheep. Okay. A two headed it was a sheep that was two headed. It was over almost like a sleeping bag. It was covering these two young men. Two young men laying there laying there and this cover of this perfect grotesque two-headed cheap. It was a mockery of Mary had a little lamb. It was the strangest thing, and it was like it was almost like a similar long thing. It was so. It took me off really bad too. I just. I felt rage about that. And it was the other one was writer haired shorter looking at he was presenting himself came in any pointed to it almost like he he was just giving a presentation, and it just came on like that. It just sounds. It sounds very bath. Amenity, you know, that's not even a word for medi. But it's it's very, you know, like, it definitely gives me that vibe. And you know, there's so many different times of demonic entities things. Like that. When it comes to the newbies. First of all the question when somebody says dog man, do you picture the newbies in your in your mind? Well, I did. I mean, I when I heard about I mean, I was intrigued about this. Because also when my husband would listen to stuff, and he told me about this too. He listens to southbound Tron ical this when he had heard that. 'cause I told him I told him everything before the two. And when I I think of a difference. I mean, my experience was different, you know, and and found like, you know, it was a cryptic thing. But when I think of yeah, when I think of that, you know, I I wouldn't call. What I saw dog man, you know, it was a person person with the head of the dog. You know, I mean, it wasn't a a growling, you know, out in the woods or out in the, you know. Creature? You know, I mean. Your question was what what I think of when I think of dog, man. Yeah. I just wasn't sure. If like when somebody says dog man to you or you were to hear that phrase. I'm sure you've heard it before especially if you listened to my show, I wasn't shock you. When you hear that? If that's if you picture what you saw throughout your life. I could sure actually pitcher because I think that all you know, like, I believe like fast watch is partially not as much but partially of you know, or demonic, you know, I believe I believe that it's that may be mixed with me, all you know, that when you think about that kind of thing, and you know, like. I think they are spiritual. I think their different types of people that is spiritual. You know, like this is enough room. But. Primate. You know, like, I think that some of them have snouts and stuff, you know. I mean, there's like a different look and stuff that they're more animalistic. I don't know what I've heard. People describe it seems like there's all different types facial, you know, depending on where people are. The one would my my second youngest, and he's twenty now would about three rerun mount Ranier, and I've been everywhere around here. And I've known I don't want to be I I mean, I I know fast watch is in the northwest. And. And I we were up not in the foot hole. Mount Ranier we're up a little bit higher than that and used to live in for Tomas amount. But we're by a little stream, my husband was having poured van again, and my son was going towards Jayme who's three about three. And I saw somebody. I don't know what it works. But I felt feeling like we're going now. But I thought somebody peak out from behind the tree, I don't know. I've never seen that watch. You know, like a member looked into a face God. But you know, I it was that feeling which I think comes from something being the spiritual origin too. And I think that when I hear encounters that other people have had to they found a lot more watchi-. It sounds like, you know, more. More something not to say. Yeah. Demon definitely living forest, but. I think there's a difference of her Linda bog Frey mentioned the Nuba like one that isn't people's houses. You know? That's what did it for me. Why you know, like, okay? Other people seeing this. I felt a whole lot better, you know, but a whole lot better. And you know, I'm just so thankful that people can share now that we have the internet and everything, but I think. That there's other people are such different experiences. You know from what I've heard to sound very different. That I do believe I think that they're all they all have spiritual side, you know, that they are partially demonic, you know, maybe watching this much, but also do believe that the April, and I'm old enough to have gone camping. My adoptive parents. I'm old enough to gone there before the eruption about Helen. And I can say this. I never ran into fest watch. But I remember trees a lot of trees that I could walk along been like pushed over I remember law walking on on trees 'cause they were down. In spirit ESPN like can't grown. And I remember, you know, I remember different feelings various bleecker. Like, I said, I I've always believed, you know, of course, being from Seattle, even our Sonics, you know, phonics had like the weed UIL on the needle. They had like a little Feth watch mascot, Seattle best team know who you're talking about. Yeah. Like, the Wego we were like embracing with all that fast. Watch culture, you know? So and my friends all my friends like keeper muck of food and people everyone who's like from like, you know, coastal natives, you know, everything my kids were involved in like native, dance and stuff and eat them cau- and Ireland just takes it for granted. Yeah. I mean, southbound Che's. Is there a met, you know, just regarded different types of people? You don't really want to mix with you know, you wanna. Out of there where they are. Yeah. I could I agree with you. I I don't want anything to do with them to be honest with. I not hunting for one. And you know, I I do like going out in the hikes, and I like getting out there and things like that. And you know, I like going into areas that they're known to be in and things like that. But you know, I haven't been out in a while. And I haven't been out since I started changing my opinion as to what Bigfoot might be. And I really do lead towards more of a possible Netflix type creature these days, and if that's the case. Show serve. I actually want to see you know, like maybe from like a mile mile s too far maybe like a hundred yards away. The doesn't see me. I'm up wind down wind down wind up wind. Yeah. You know what I'm saying though? I if I could see it from a, you know from a safe distance behind bars or something like that to be great. I don't even want to do that. I just I just I know I know fast botches, and you know, they they are. And that's all I need to know. And I just need to know. I don't wanna be anywhere near them and safety can say that they have a long history of you don't wanna go gifting them or anything like, you know, what I've heard some people do. And from what I've heard from people, you know, just. Yeah. They have a long history of eating people. Okay. It's not cute. You know? And they're no, they're Notre Baca. You know, they're not they're not. You know? Yeah. Something that's very real in my and I would avoid. Absolutely agree with you. It's there's something off about this is that just something off about him. So definitely, you know pursue at your own risk. But yeah, bigger than us. Unpredictable. You know? And maybe there are a lot more corporal grid, some of the other spiritual beings. You know what? I mean. I mean, the more of the earth, but I do believe they are demonic. I believe that there. Yeah. Enough of them will really pre she coming onto night and stuff you you jam packed two hours of fo-. Foe lots of info to go through a lot of stories in experiences to kind of think on stuff for the audience, and you and I will talk and stuff off air. We'll figure out a time for you to come back and go into some details because there's tons of questions. I could talk to you about we could go for another two hours. But I think we'll cut it off here and save it for another day. The best therapy session for me. I'm not I'm not a therapist. I'm not at their everybody. I'm not. I'm just a truck driver with a podcast. Don't sue me. Not. Good though. I mean. I appreciate that. I just I'm just kidding around. I know you know, it is what it is. I I just I enjoy hearing these these odd stories, and I really enjoy being speak to the people hand and just kinda help people think through these processes because there's been plenty of times that I've interviewed somebody and afterwards, they'll say that you know, they they feel like they have a more clear feeling as to what they experienced just by talking it out because they don't talk about these things to just anybody. And so by talking it out with me from the beginning to end, it just helps people to just kinda work through the process. And sometimes that's all you need just have somebody here you out. So you can think it through and just verbalize what the experience was. And I really appreciate coming on tonight and sharing that tonight. Thank you for having me on. Well, that's a sure buddy. I really hope you enjoyed it. And if you didn't joy, they are three things you can do to help support the show one go to I tunes the five star rating review to go to patriotic dot com. Forward slash the confessionals and signs it become a patron to help support the show and three you can go ahead and share the link to the show that you're listening to right now around social media that would help me out a great deal as well. And until next week friends. Stay safe take care and remember the truth was such a free. But I piss you off by. No. Are you mean?

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WWDC Preview: A Conversation With Apples Former App Approval Chief

Decrypted

39:44 min | 1 year ago

WWDC Preview: A Conversation With Apples Former App Approval Chief

"Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit H P, E dot com slash green lake. To learn more every year in June. Apple Hosa a huge conference in northern California called the worldwide developers conference or WW. Dc. Good morning. This is one of the biggest moments of the year. This is apple basically saying, hey, this is our big software, roadmap for the next year or so. Well, also hinting at the hardware, it's planning for the fall, of course it's also developers learn to build new apps at the latest technologies which drives apples growing services revenues, so Mark, we're giving you an episode of decrypted to preview this year's WW DC. What do you have for us? Thanks, brad. Well, today, I'm going to give you an even earlier peek into what's coming at the conference in take you inside the key apps store Provea process with Philip shoemaker. He used to run Apple's app store. View department and played a role in some of the WWE, c- conferences. He left apple a few years ago, and he's now, the, the security company called density dot com. We reached out to apple a number of points in this interview, and they declined to comment. I'm Brad stone in dime, Mark Gherman? And you are listening to decrypted. Okay. Mark. I'll let you take it from here. I remember this must have been ten years ago in a past life. They used to do some, some Aptidon that, oh, I know. Today. So we were in ninth grade, or tenth grade, my friend Aaron. And I we saw there was this ABC called I am rich it was a thousand dollars, and I think that's maybe before you started or the little bit after you started. And that happ got removed from the app store after I think sixteen or eighteen people bought it. So we thought it'd be funny to come up with a hundred dollar version called, you are rich that get Cabaco pulled from the app store, and that's how I met you. That's right. Because after we got pulled I call to complain again, before he did that up news wanting to talk to you demanding talk to Philip shoemaker. That's right. Then I got you. So what was that? Like how often were you were you doing stuff like that? It'd be honest, you one of the few developers that actually reached out and you were persistent about it, right? That you're doing what you're doing now. But at the time there were few developers that would reach out two thousand nine was really breakthrough year for apple and learning a lot about the app store, and we learned a lot about how approving the wrong app can actually make the stock price go down. And when that happens, you get calls, like I did from Steve, from Al Gore and folks, like that, that would just, you know, be mad at you for for your team approving an app like that. Yeah. Now that's interesting. I didn't realize it went literally all the way to the talk and beyond with Steve Jobs, and Al Gore. But what was the interaction between op review? Well, actually, you know, volume submission volume in March two thousand nine were just skyrocketing. And they kept going, we were doubling the size of the team, every three to six months. So, so it was it was very involved, this very involved process and to put. These questionable apps in front of the executives once a month was ridiculous to me. So I made that meeting weekly which meant I got beating weekly right, when you'd miss your numbers or you to prove the wrong up, which, you know, in the early days, we did all of that. It was it was a process. We were trying to refine because we were we were inventing, however, when certain apps got approved that they shouldn't have, you know, the three three weeks into my job, apple released an app, approved an app called baby shaker. I'm sure you know about that taught take take us through that. What take a start to finish what happened there baby shaker was was one of these really weird things because at the time early early on in the app store. We were not certain as to what apps we should have proven not approve early on. We really had eight seven or eight things that Steve gave specifically to look out for them and things like I am rich weren't on there things like baby shaker just really weren't there. So early on. We were having three sets of eyes. Look at every app, it went to somebody that one of my beers someone senior that I took the team over from and two of his employees and the old approved it. And what it was was. It's a, it's a drawing of a baby, and when it would start to cry just randomly you would rocket to sleep. That was great. But if you were getting frustrated people would shake the heck out of that device, and then it'd put Xs over the eyes of the baby. It says, never shake a baby. It was I wouldn't say it was a good message, but it should never been approved. So when that app got approved it was an interesting day I gotta proved on Monday or Tuesday. And we announced record earnings. We announced, I think, Eddie headed now something like a billionth download for the app store. I mean, all these amazing numbers and our stock price went down, and that's because of the baby shaker, we had shaken baby syndrome, folks picketing outside of infinite loop for me, baby shake was interesting because I saw my phone ring, and it said Steve Jobs office. And picked up reticent. And I got his Adleman, who said Steve would like to talk to you and see just had simple word from me. You're stupid and you hire stupid people. This was one of the best conversations ahead would Stephen so sustained to the point he hung up the phone. I knew understood his gist. Right. The just was an I had nothing to do with this app. I didn't hire the people that reviewed it. I didn't review it myself, but I get it the next phone call. I got was from the office of Al Gore and that just blew my mind in talking to how he, he just wanted to know what the review process was and, and how we miss this. And what were the mistakes, and he was very pleasant. Unlike the Steve interesting is that common for board. Members to get involved with the senior executives at apple across they're not usually. Yeah, this is the first time and only time it ever happened to me at apple. So tell me about the review process itself, how it started under you and what it progress too because like you said, I remember this was like a one two week thing these days, you can get an app approved within forty eight seventy two hours. Right. So how does it work? Someone. Emits an app to the app store. Someone on the app review team downloads. The file puts on a phone tickets. And there's no secret, first of all zero automation. You have to wrap your head around that, right? Every app has to see a set of eyes. And that's something that Phil was always a fill Shula was always adamant. And that's the senior VP of marketing who now runs all the app store operation. That's correct. And Phil would was adamant that we needed to set of is because things slip through. So you'd go there in the morning and you're a good reviewer. You say it could review probably between fifteen hundred apps a day. Now that's high. It sounds like a lowest reviewers could do about thirty especially if it's a game or something super involved, you know, could take forever. That's right. Some of the some of the level some of the, the other features unlock over time. So it's difficult to review over, we don't have any special functionality to go in and look at a specific screen, we're using just like users are so review goes in. They claim say lit, let's say it's a it's a basic reviewer that claimed thirty apps, and so they go and they claim now what that does is at downloads it from the server, internally, and then starts sinking it to your device. Once everything's sinked. You have now thirty apps on your device and you go you, you load up the tool on your MAC. You say okay, I'm going to review this one first. And then you launch it on your on your device, and you just start looking now there's over one hundred and fifty guidelines in the early days, it wasn't that defined. And so it's a little more nuanced than what you see in the guidelines, the guidelines written up in a gray way for very valid reason, right? We want we don't know what we're gonna see like the famous apper you guidelines that are on Apple's felt website. That's correct. But so developers would submit apps not knowing what's allowed, and what's not allowed in the way most developers in the early days would determine. What's okay is they would look at the store if it's on the store clearly it's all right? But if you think about it apper viewers are human. So in in, in a case like this I, I saw that as an absolute failure, I've always always tried to fix it. That's why I think automation would be so so helpful but you and I know I can only get so far. Now, then we relied heavily on this. Wiki. And this week, he became hundreds of pages long. You expect to review or to review an app in about thirteen minutes, right, for a new app thirteen minutes while looking at one hundred pages of a Wiki. It's just it's untenable. So over time, we are refining these, these Wicky guidelines. We, we started refining all of our processes to be able to, to make it a little flow flow, a little faster and to be honest to get it down under three weeks, which is what, what it was, when I joined we, we had to make a lot of changes in one of the first was over time I got rid of the three eyes on every app and got it down to one set of eyes. But all these reviewers had to pass a lot of education that we did internally, and then ultimately a sit down with me. So in order to be, you know, the guy who can put the stamp down to push our guy or girl to push the app out. They had to have a chat with you. I you had to them as a member of the team. Yeah. I sat down with everybody before they could push that final button and remind them about baby shaker remind them about I rich and in. Talk to them about stock price going down based on just one bad decision that the team makes and look at baby shaker incident was painful internally. So what's the room, like, is it like this big, you know, big room with a bunch of deaths, a bunch of ipads, iphones, etc. Where everyone say next to each other collaborating or is it very individualized. Yeah, tell me for ten year in review. Tell me what your days. So I'll tell you about the first days, right? The early days, March two thousand nine and most two thousand nine we were in infinite loop three. So I'll three in. We were scattered in conference rooms so no rooms, not bigger than this in a room this big, we would probably put in five reviewers with, you know, a foot and a half two feet of death space, and we're in a small room, by the way. Swore we'd fit five. Folks in there, we'd black and all the windows, and we would card activate every door because this was you're dealing with developers secrets. Right. They haven't released as publicly yet you wanna be able to hold onto these things, and make sure that it make sure that nobody in outside of the app review team sees these apps in advance because we have a, we have a responsibility to the developer. So everything was locked down. We had black curtains everywhere, and, and the revere would sit in front of a MAC book and, and one or two phones typically, you know, obviously, after the ipad came out, we put ipad every, every reviewer had multiple ipads, and multiple iphones. And over time we added to the processes such as cl- wiping out, each device every morning, and we had a lot of lot of crazy situa scenarios in, in those rooms where people would be eating. So one of the big ones was oatmeal every morning with fish sauce on it, and have the team would choke it. That and the other half the team loved it. So just crazy things like that, always happening now the way it is. Now is it's an open. I'm sure you've been a Facebook and other companies like that. And you've seen their open floor plan. It's pretty much like that everybody gets about three feet now of de space, but it's all open, and it's extremely collaborative. Now how many people would you say reviewing apps in is it localized to Cupertino, do you have places other were elsewhere in California elsewhere in the world how what's the setup like in the company where, where you're representing over fifty three countries? We are fifty three languages that were were represented by my team. You it'd be great to be able to hire people outside of Cupertino, but that's not the apple way, right? The app away. Is this is an intellectual property, what we do on the review team in how we review apps is very new to the world. We didn't want anybody like Microsoft or Google or anybody learning our secrets, so we never hired contractors, and we kept them all in Cupertino, and then ultimately, we built a few buildings in Sunnyvale. And that's where. House to this day. But what do you think of the recent apps or changes there's been a lie in, you know, to improve it on the consumer side, the interface, but also subscriptions new ways for developers to create additional revenue. What are your thoughts, there's good in bed with all of it? You know, the, the thing that pained me as a I, I've, I've always been a, you could look at my job at apple is kind of a regulator to make allow what goes on the store, and what how they marketed all of that other stuff. I didn't really care about that. The thing that kind of got me a little nervous was when we started putting advertisements in the when you would search for a certain game. The top search ads painful, like Google search result. That's right. And they would have to pay per click or pay for every hundred clicks or so or hundred downloads. She get the worst app ever. That's always appearing at the top and, and type it worse apps a lot because there's a lot of stuff in the store. That's that shouldn't be there in my opinion. Right. So how do you think it should be? Do you think they should be more stringent? I remember in your very early days, especially when the first ipad came out. Tell me about that with Steve Jobs involved. Personally in what are the first thousand apps for the ipad, you're going to be extra careful because I remember when I submitted ipad apps. Those things were getting rejected left and right, doesn't make stay said it doesn't make sense to have as one of the first bundle of apps. Talks book. Fox was the, the, the, the pet was was interesting. It was the first hardware release that my team got really involved in for the most part, apple super tight on, on new equipment, new products. And they don't want to expose it to anybody. And, and my team was mostly a bunch of ex apple genius. Apple store, folks. Right. That's where we hired him. Majority of our people from and so apple didn't see them as the standard corporate folks, and therefore the team wasn't his as trustworthy as the others. And plus, it's a large group. I grew over time. So, so we typically weren't involved in new product releases. And I understand that, but sometimes we have to get involved like the watch and the ipad were two examples the ipad. We were involved pretty much about three weeks before launch not much more than that. And that's when we started except this was the only time we allowed people to submit apps that were an alpha or beta state, just so we could start understanding what people were because. Than have ipads strike. Someone needed to test it out on hardware, obviously, it'd be apple so they could be ready for day one. When consumers get them. That's right. Really good point right in the past, we'd, we'd never allow you to submit an app until hardware, been released because we want to make sure you're trying it on actual hardware. You don't just do it based on the simulator built this. It's not it's never the same never the same. But you and I, I you probably know this as well as I do. Most developers submit una simulator build. So every night, I'd send a bunch of apps off to the exact same say, here's the issue we have, right? It's tracking location or whatever the issue was and try to figure out if this was something that's appropriate or not everybody wanted to change the UI. They wanted to go to like a desktop UI for the ipad. So we're loud, developers drawing these, these like desktop metaphors, which we rejected all of them. You know, it's kind of interesting, it just didn't fit the ipad iphone model Iowa's model. So we rejected a bunch of those but early on. I grabbed a team about fifteen people. We put. Him in a special room from the app review team and they were the only ones that we're able to play with a hardware. We had it mounted, you know what the cable like you see in the apple stores mounted to the, the desk, and, and we collected them every evening. So it was a very tight process, and we rejected and rejected every day. We rejected apps and developers re-submit every day those same apps to be able to be in that first block. So that leads me to my next question. And I know I mean you could easily just flatly deny this do some developers get, you know, special attention or special policies. And in circumstances was difference between, you know me as a developer back then in high school, you know, a mom and pop shop, development, firm and Facebook, because the idea was they would all be treated the same. But is that necessarily the case Steve always argued that old developer should be treated equally for me it was all about. I took Steve's word. I said, yes. All developers credit equally. I will not get one developer. Any allowance I if you if you read some of the early stuff that I wrote on Twitter at cetera. I was calling out Facebook all the time. Even though they were one of these privileged few developers. They had some of the worst code at the time. I mean, they uploaded, you remember the Wall Street Journal article the apps are watching you that radically fundamentally changed, what we did it app review because we realized that even big developers linked in, in the Facebooks that were taking your contacts embrace sending them to the cloud. You just couldn't trust him. They weren't notifying people that they were doing this, yet path, and Facebook and linked in, in so many companies were doing this that you start giving this a special allowances to these big guys because they're who they are. And you get burned. There's another ally did want to ask you about Google voice, obviously, you know, today, ten years later. This is Google calling service, but Google wanted to do is launch Google voice for iphones. This is in the early days of the app store, but there's a whole back story. There was talk us through it. Well, it actually Google voice for a for online for the web came out long before before they tried to push through Google voice for, for the iphone and a third party developer was the first one on board. And what he did was he wrote an app for. I forget what the name of it was. And for Google voice, as I think it was sandwich, Sean. I don't. Yeah. Good. Marietta is definitely voice, and I had weekly calls with him. I mean, he and I had many conversations and it lasted eleven months, probably a museum. You're not going to get on the store. You're not getting on the store today. You're not getting on the store then and it went on daily. Now. Let's take a look at why right? What is Google voice? Well, it replaces the telephone features of your, you know it replaces the, the calling features of your iphone. Well, it was kind of strike. Number one, apple says no this, this is for. We don't want Google to take over the phone. We don't want there to be a g mail. Client, a browser a phone calling at contacts etcetera etcetera, right? Because then it would become the G phone was the fear, right? Just like they're afraid of the Facebook phone. So there was an actual fear inside apple early days, the app store that if they allowed these different Google services on the phone, the phone could basically become Google phone. That was a real thing that was a real thing, the, the fear that somebody would come along a Facebook Google. However, and wipe off in and remove all of our items. You know, the dialing the contacts and replace that with Facebook, or Google variations of that was the number one fear, because then, suddenly, you're kind of, you're losing this, this, you're losing the cachet the phone, you're losing the, the people think more about apple once they start using these other apps, they'd be thinking more about Google now. Is that a reason why still to this day, I believe that will be the case for IOS thirteen which will get to you cannot set other third party apps as defaults for main functions? Yes, I would say, that's absolutely. The reason. Now, if you look at it if, if, if you look at historically, what apple finally Scott forestall VP of engineering, at the time said something really good. He says, look, I don't care if these other competing services come on the platform, it's actually good for us. We work harder to make a better product and Scott was the who was the Wiseman in the room. But, but others always push back on that ultimate. We got Google voice in at which point, I was able to, to, to get g voice on onto it and allow other VoIP apps like line to and and other apps as well. So that takes me to my next point. What about this growing concern of competition between apple and the app developers? You have this whole supreme court situation where they ruled that there can be lower court lawsuits in regards to the percentage that apple takes from developers. There's also fear. There was a story in the New York Times recently that apple was pulling a lot of apps. It competed with screen time, apple said that was because of privacy concerns, which I totally believe, but that doesn't take away from the fact that there is that concern, especially now with these new IRS releases that are coming out with better and better core apps. Right. What do you think of that? I I'm really worried about about the competition piece. You know, you see the Spotify go into the EU regulators about, and you have Elizabeth Warren talking about breaking up Facebook in an apples at. Dial. And I struggle with that. I, I recently wrote a medium post on, on this thing because I believe that, that there is now a conflict as apple goes into these spaces that are ripe with competition, you know, in the early days of the iphone everything I've apple was doing was new. But once there started being competition like Spotify was a big one, right? Remember back in the day when Steve said, nobody wants to rent their music. I, I was at rhapsody at the time. I loved digital subscription music business and hear that just kind of broke my heart, and as you have apple music, and now you have music. So when apple music comes out, and they put it on the thing and on the platform, and then they require Spotify, or, or let's say Netflix for a different business model when they put them out there and say, oh, by the way you still have to pay us thirty percent. The margins are too thin. That's why we changed some of the guidelines in the early days about allowing for a magazines and certain types of, of content to, to not have to use an perch. Right. They could get around that. I remember that because of the March this shift so originally you cannot build free to play apps and games. So if you wanted to offer in-app purchases your app needed to be paid one, two years later. They switched it. So you could do freedom pro. That's right. That's right. And eople really was focusing on a few core things like like music, movies magazine subscriptions, because the margins are just so thin there. They can't spare the thirty percent. So apple made a special allowance for that. But they're now in a position of of dominance again. Right. We have the apple music, but apple music doesn't have to carve out thirty percent and pay that to some other entity. But Spotify has to I mean this is where you can absolutely annihilate the competition. But so what do you think's going to happen? What do you think the outcome is going to be think apple will lower the split the commission split? What's the solution? There is, is a tough one, because I, I don't know what the. The right answer is here to an end. I think it's gonna be status quo. Business leaders are increasingly demanding the outcomes. They want when they want them and paying only for what they use at Hewlett Packard enterprise. We're bringing that flexibility and control to IT with the introduction of HP green lake pay per use outcomes on your terms, come to HP green lake and see the future of IT get there at HP dot com slash green lake. So speaking of developers, we are sitting here, just two weeks ahead of the annual developers conference and given your background and your knowledge of the absent developers. I thought it'd be great to talk about this upcoming WW DC with you in. We've reported a lot about what's to be expected. But I'm mostly curious from you. What was apper us involvement or your involvement specifically in your more senior role on WW DC this big conference for thousands of developers? What were rehearsals? Life was atmosphere for the company leading up to this big June launch every year. It's it's chaos there right now. He knows just few weeks away. Apple apple really starts diving digging into this in, in January timeframe, and they started focusing internally now the venues are in all of that's already been reserved unison, so that gets handled a well in advance. But that January when we come back from the, the holiday break. It's, it's crunch mode for, for everything. One of the first things is getting the tickets in the right developers. Hands says, you know it used to be we would make them available. We wouldn't tell people when we'd make him a billable and people would buy up quickly. Now, it was always on US timezones. So we'd open the door for thing in the morning. Ten AM on on apple time in California, and we'd find that the Chinese developers were way under represented. European ones were little better represented because the times owned by people in the east in Asia and stuff. They were not able to, to get the tickets they needed to. And that's when it really started selling out, you know, before the iphone, we couldn't give away tickets. And now it's more of a lottery system. But, you know, you have to use air quotes, when you say that because it's a lottery for for you and me. But it's not a lottery for the epics and the Zinger as and the ten cents right? They're guaranteed admission and it will always be that way because you need some of their products on board. So it starts out with just trying to get the tickets into people's hands, and then it's all about getting the right content, and there's a lot on all this planning a meetings, trying to figure out exactly what we're gonna do who the band is going to be this is all pretty much. And right now, it's in crunch mode for presentations, the developers are all getting during the rehearsals right now because, you know, we always apple always wanted at least a thousand developers to be an attendance at this, which is Apple's helpers apple engineer. Yes, that's correct. Apple engineers, so they have their main keynote with is always on that Monday, typically on that Monday, but then throughout the week, hundreds of sessions, you would say, apple engineers, little going a little deeper, on the new API's new developer frameworks to do applications. That's right. And so that's what they've been preparing for the last six months, preparing for. And then after that they're expected to be in the lab for long periods of time. Because when you release a new feature you, you wanna be able to come down and speak directly to some of the developers that are trying to use your API cetera. Be able to answer some of these questions. A lot of bugs. Get fixed developers. Learn a apple developers. Learn a lot about how people are trying to use the API's and we're able to fix them up before it goes to production. What was your involvement in new features new IS features or MAC? OS features that were presented annually, pretty much zero to be honest. It's the these features was great about when Scott forstall was running it changed when, when he left Scott became he helped us build out the app store, and he saw all the pains, we were going through when we were building it. And so Scott was very knowledgeable of what would impact app review? And so whenever they had a new feature that we were going to have to review for he does make his team figure out. How is apple house app review going to, to rebuke for this feature? How are they going to be able to tell if they're doing it, right? Or they're doing it wrong. And he was really good about that when he left everything changed we had less visibility into engineering, engineering. Never consulted us when they would submit a new feature or put a feature out that would greatly impact us. We just got notified if. Weeks before the dub dub DC. And then we'd have to kind of figure out how we're going to work with it. So how else do you think apple software development change from the transition from Scott forstall, who was the first person in charge of Iowa software to Craig Federica who now runs I o s macaroni software and all the underlying frameworks? I it's, it's, it's tough to know how much was was the changing of the guard versus just the, the amount of code the people suddenly have to right. I mean, I, I think we're all pretty aware that, that things are a little bugger than they used to be right. That the, the fit and finish of, of the software. And I'm talking the hardware, the software, it's just not what it used to be. Now, I completely agree with you. We had a story last year that after a couple years of people, making comments like this, which is in Tirlian valid and true, they sort of changed the development process. So instead of focusing on one annual release, they would focus on the next couple of releases and they could give and take softer features between the two and I think that's what we're going to see a little bit more. This year is new features but with a big performance push. So I wanna talk about some of the, the new things that they're going to be pushing on one hand, the apple watch is going to be getting more independent. So they're going to be adding for the first time the app store to the apple watch. Is that something that you think developers have been asking for disciplining? What would the benefit be there? How'd it even look on such a small screen? Yeah, that's great question. It's, it's something we always expected when we released the watch the expectation in the very first was it? We're going to have a watch store, right on the watch, but it became embarrassing, the number of apps that you that were submitted specifically for the watch. I mean, as you know, right now, what it's twenty thousand watch only apps, which, if you think about in, in, in or apps that support the watch I won't say, watch only right absence watch only about twenty thousand versus two point two million. So it's always been kind of a embarrassment for apple. They didn't get enough people understanding the design how to design for watch, but also people just didn't gravitate towards it as much as they did the ipad iphone and apple TV ads for super super buggy launch apps. It would take a very long time to load. It was like the very it was on the iphone three g came out with the app store. Okay. So the phone came out in July, then Steve Jobs and bills this big software update in September. But then that three month period that thing was really a really bugging. That's what the apple watch was like for like the first year or two. That's right. You know, and so, so, yeah, apple was always kind of embarrassed by by the watch submission numbers. I tracked him every week and I remember doing that for about six months. Finally, the executive said, you know, we don't need that data anymore because it's just kind of a letdown when you see it, I mean, I always track did for me, transparency's important, right? You want to be as open, as you can with the executives from my team would make a mistake it cetera. But we always included this data. We always wanted to see how trending up or down and, and submissions. Because I could allocate team resources differently. Take people off the watch team because I had different teams where everything I Chinese language team had watched him. And the idea was able to, to use allocate your resources appropriately. So I'm excited that the watch is finally getting its own store. It's going to be difficult to navigate. And we know all of the issues that are in a constrained UI, but, but I'm excited that the finally the pushes there because the idea is that now you have a place to look watch only you be able to sit there. And while you're sitting on the bus, it'll just be able to swipe through your watch and see what happens. You wanna download I think it might have a little more engagement. I think it'll be good for them, and they're also doing a few new applications for the apple watch. There's going to be a voice memos out for the first time there's going to be a women's health app called cycles of pillar mind reminders up called dose. What do you think of the matting on? There's this apple books out for listening to audio books that they're adding. Do you think that's going to push developers to build their own competitive apps? For the watches wha. Well, or does it scare them away? I think it's a difficult one to me. Apple hasn't been getting the uptake on, on watch the missions that they want people. Love the watch don't get me wrong people love the watch for. It's built in functionality for the most part, these apps or tertiary, or secondary or tertiary. So I think it will probably drive more development, if they start getting more engagement, especially with these apps that, that are needed. I mean, why haven't we had a voice memo zap on the on the watch would have been helpful for this would have been helpful? And in. So for a long time, you you're wondering why they're doing that. I'm glad apples finally doing a push to do more native apps because. Yeah, I think absolutely, it will drive more engagement, if you other things here on this is on the I O S thirteen sides of the iphone and ipad update. Obviously, the ipads going to get big updates for multitasking as they try to push away from the MAC in some respects bring developers more towards the ipad. Get into that in a second. But also some more functionality taking over some third pretty apps. Like way to create a second display, like connecting your ipad to a MAC. A new reminders application. The is pretty nifty, new stuff in messages. Updated maps, new find my friends and find my iphone combined up. Do you think this is going to present issues for developers whereas Apple's coming out with better versions in some respects of app, developers are doing or do you think this is going to make both sides better? It's very valid point question. I it's, it's tough. It's tough to know the answer. You're right, apple in apper view have been putting companies out of business since two thousand nine right? That's what I was like to say. Because you how many companies I had to call and destroy and say, look, your business model doesn't work anymore. We can't allow that type of Eappen the store of done that too many companies. Now, some of those people are still friends of mine, oddly enough, or they became friends in this process because they liked the transparency, and the openness of me saying, look, I'm sorry, we're, we're entering into this business. And so that's haven't you. For you. I mean sure it was. But what's the personal rope? My heart broke my heart every time because I would say to the review is almost every day. It's like because members two thousand nine a lot of developers were submitting apps, and we weren't in there, I wouldn't say it was a recession, but the economy wasn't superstrong a lot of developers out of jobs, and I would remind the review team every day that you are what's stopping at from getting on the store and potentially making money for this developer to put food on the table and send their kids to school. But look, this is one of those cases where a developer can can take Scott forestalls advice and say, look, I can do something better. Let me out think apple here. Not easy to do. Always apples got a lot of money and mortgage, a lot of big brains. But at the same time, I think we can always come and find a another avenue at this, same the same type of technology. Now, what about the forgotten apps store, the TV OS half, what is going on there? They getting a lot of submissions. It doesn't seem like new apps for getting added to that regularly, or people really take advantage of the pop. It's, it's sad to me pass the IOS apps store, the ma-, the TV app store to me, it was going to be was was my favorite because I loved having the big screen, I love just being able to sit there and do that. But this, you know it's not easy to into your credentials. You then have to get your app out and, and on your iphone. And so for me, it just it's not still not a great user experience, and how many people enter the password by speaking it into the thing when you're surrounded by folks, you don't do that. So it's, it's difficult to get into the TV app store. I for a user to get in there and find interesting things, but I think there's still so much promise. We just need better ways of interacting with it, and I still have yet to see that great. And what about the home pod, there's no official app store? But there is a way to tap iphone apps into it. I can see huge huge missed opera. -tunities agree. I don't -ticipant that being fixed this year. But do would you think they would go up against the Alexa app? I think they absolutely should. It's just they, they need more right, for right now Alexis got pretty, you know, I go into Alexa, if I if I want to get something new on that I go to my phone. I find something interesting. I install it and pretty much anything I want is there for the most part, and I enjoy that when you can get to that point with a home pot when there's enough submissions. I just don't know how much there is there right now? Yeah, it seems like one of the, the weaker products sure does in their lineup. But just one other thing here that I just wanted to touch upon going back to WW DC. What was it like for you personally like that week that time that lead up to what was the drop off after those the June interactions? And does the process really ramp up for you in those three months between the new iphone release and WW DC finishing? Yeah. W DC was was difficult for my team, the first. Year was there. We had no presence at at dub dub DC as far as my team was concerned. My team was back in Cupertino just trying to prove apps have review apps, and I would walk the halls, and I would talk to developers, and I realized that was a big missed opportunity for us for, for the app review organization to actually sit down and meet with developers. So it was that, that next one in two thousand ten, then I said, we need a room, I need I need to be part of a marketing event or something. So we can start talking to developers, and that became a big room full of, of mice most senior, apper bureaus, these were typically the ones that would call developers. I you got calls from all of us got calls from these guys. They, they were the ones that would be able to represent that the team will be able to answer questions, right? Because Oprah's love to record apper view and try to put them on. I remember logs host. Oh, yeah. Hosting the recordings. Hi, this is whoever from Apple's, right? And you know what I would do, I would download all those, I would listen to them, and then I bring him to the person that was was. Talking and the rest of the team, and I'd say, okay, here's how we should handle these calls now. It was embarrassing, but it was also a teaching moment. I wasn't doing that to out anyone. And so you did a bad job. It's like it. Let's learn from this. Let's figure out how to make this better in the future. So I it was great to have all these reviewers there in the room. Then started getting I tunes connect folks in their started getting apps store, marketing folks into this room. And so we basically had this big room full of, if you were a developer. And you want to come into our lab. You get answers all your questions. How do I get featured a, you know, why are you rejecting my app for sixteen point one or whatever the guideline was in and we'd get everyone together to be able to help out developers? And so after that point two thousand ten on a dub dub DC was hard. I was in the lab every day. But I get pulled into other meetings with bigger developers, but mostly I would spend all my time in the labs. Trying solve people's problems in. We had laptops there. We could look up exactly what your problem was and be able to diagnose it tell you specifically what you needed to change this screen right here. Read stuff that's difficult to do over Email or even over a phone call. We could sit down with the developer and let them know what the problems were. This is where I it was in these meetings at some of these developers whose businesses. I, I took down. We come to me and talk to me. And we became friends over time. It's an amazing turn, we'll thank you so much. This was incredibly fascinating. An eye opening. I feel like we have a real inside peek into, you know, the app store. Well, thank you. I appreciate his great. Thank you. Thank you. Really appreciate it. And that's it for this week's episode of decrypted. Thanks for listening. I wanna know what you thought about this show, write to us at decrypted at Bloomberg dot net or I'm on Twitter at Mark Gherman, and I'm at Brad stone. And please help us spread the word about her show by leaving us a rating or review wherever you like to listen to podcasts. This episode was produced by Pia good. Cari, in Lindsay craft will or story editor was Akihito. Thank you also have to and Bandra may, an Emily view. So Francesca Levy is head of Bloomberg podcast. We'll see you next week. Decrypted is brought to you by Hewlett Packard enterprise. Introducing HP green lake a new way to consume IT as a service, visit H P, E dot com slash green lake. To learn more.

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The Sunday Service 11-24-19

Double Toasted

2:50:07 hr | 1 year ago

The Sunday Service 11-24-19

"You don't even a word God understood me man. The Lord knows what I was talking about this because yes yes Jesus go hello doing today absolutely has brought here today doing all right past the core. KOMO's it'll be a minister Martin Thomas. How're you doing today Sir? Let me good. I'm feeling better feeling better. You kind of run down. Oh last aww trucks today on just simply too but only the spirit to give me a high outgoing day good to see walk. The Sunday service DOT COM. Look you've got a good show day we had a bash over. You know it's me again. None but good stuff for you like today more and we got some good things for people out there. Oh we we gotta talk about this child baby odor. The child is bringing in the whole world together. Jesus Iota I don't trust him really. I don't trust that motherfucker. Don't don't start saying no I don't I mean he's cute and he's maybe she. I don't know by turned him over true between Green Lake. I don't even know what that is. It's three of them in. There's a hole right. There was some. I don't know what's going on with this it. I don't trust it okay. Now we'll tell people why I mean it's adorable and everything but don't y'all get fooled by this. I'm here to tell you that thing can not be something sinister going on within the allies. And I'm warn you. I'm warning you so that when it happens don't us and tell you so binary lasy. I'm going to tell truth Monday in also speaking truth I want to get this whole impeachment. The process down man. I've been talking the impeachment process like I knew what the Fuck I've been talking about but don't haven't been Kevin been but put out a call today to have people explain the impeachment process to me in the in game of it of what was going on right now. Ways Tony Stark involved in this anyway. uh-huh let me get at least five minutes after you bring that bullshit. You want like you know. I wasn't feeling a good. I told YOU THIS BIS fuck up my vibrant fairly good trying to bring me he did. Yeah impeachment president. I want to know what the whole what they what what is GonNa Happen at the end of this. What people expecting now like I say I went in on? Be Be a Lotta outcomes. There is some choose your own adventure tation heaven but I but the process and needed to be explained to me and then what's going to happen with the afterwards. I needed that kind of explained to me and put into perspective respective went on to that for the people who don't know about the impeachment process. Much like Madam ass now. It's not GonNa be it is not going to be a big make political debates not gonNa have any kind of big political slant a message to it. I'm just explaining straightforward process. And what could possibly happen with it and in big news. Today Lebron James Farts has the biggest new. That's big news now. That is huge man and you know you know what I see. Everybody has that same attitude. Everybody turns on those up to smell if the nose up like they too good for this but it is it is important big news to okay explain a lot about the man okay. boxoffice box office that there had awesome records broke. I Know Disney lucky negroes. I told you I'm going to get more money. And they had some records broke over the the least amount of money spent on movies last couple of weeks really really well. We'll see if any more records were broken this weekend and let me. UCR Shit hold on. I gotTa make sure my shit is working on. Hold on real quick. Yeah we we know. We don't don't say I'm asking important award. I know but it just scares the shit these things I think we are on. I'm I'm just GonNa let it happen. Just pretend like we'll just we'll just act like its own. Let me see man if I if I actually have something up here that I want to make sure I have all my notes and everything looks like okay there it is. I see it over here. I don't see it on my phone. Kinda nervous right now. You know more and I can't think of a feat. I can't think gotta having no told me what's going on with my sending me messages. It really ought to ask blowing up was going on. I sometime when it buzzes like that. It's my worried that somebody text me like. Hey you guys are not on breath okay. MIC is dead. Martin had a look like his son who was called business. Call me most of the time. Dawn yeah I thought we had something going neglected working on the two natures reports of vacuum. Oh Mon just came in their creepy swept mayors of You know I know Martin Look at you creeper. It's gone on so oh everything's cool anything about this. If we weren't on somebody blowing up right now. No they were just still late. Yeah that is true. You know what let me see. Let let me see. Let me make sure Chad how Ya doing day. Let me know where they are really yelling. Daniels names they must be some going on because nobody announced being here. Yeah talked to some people that we haven't seen for Daniel being one. I'm Danielle is back. Double d his back. Are you doing and also Dmitri heavy heavy. DWDM heavy back again boy. Yeah I knew that. Cornell's Negro GonNA DO SOM- He's done well for himself. He has done very well for himself. We're going to. I don't Daniels this you don't they. Don't be putting these pictures up in here. You can't be I can't be yeah don't you. Don't you mean can we. Not You put him out. What did you take a picture where you in a battle atoll full of flowers holding your breath her? Who did Karan Yeah? That's that'll Dan. You look like a stupid ooh water. We're shifting around you and everything Daniel Soup right now. I don't want to put the picture up Tom can. I don't know how to I don't know how to do it. I don't like I'm not a moderate amount. Shit I I don't I don't know I've never had to go and take a picture out so I can do is just scroll can do is stare at it. Look at isn't good hard cheeses. I'll tell you what you'll never see. Thank you got Florida's on your neck you will never go down. Well you hear it again Goddamn that water's probably ten a feet deep and you just float on top of all right now. They still remember shit too. Man They still remember Daniel Goldin that bookstore looking at a or change his key long she was she was one of the most memorable cast members. I know but he's immortal. They put half price half price books. All in there looking at the cars lined up right there to get those. Oh ooh baby my oh yeah man man. Go have a lot of stuff to talk about. Today's just sit down and be quiet. You Ain't going nowhere for a little bit. I'll let you know that. Now you know we bought go twitch so we are. We are required quiet stream long so good thing was already doing. I remember back in the day told me call. You would just going to law now. Look this ain't going on long enough at the time yeah twitches requiring sixty hours of streaming a month. Yeah who's going to do that. Mars like Dan. You'd be the day at least it feels like yeah how Ya doing chat. What's going on good to see you here? Looking people are ready to get horny. Look at it as my crush Dan. Yeah Oh let me see here. Yeah everybody's in here. Daniel bringing them up good to see Daniel up in a little while to share her adventures with us. We know she just was in China. You know she she I I give it to a man who she lasted she stuck it out and I even I even. I don't know how you did it after the things that you told me. But we'll get all that in a little while we're here we'll hear from her As I mentioned before just getting in. Don't talk about baby. Yoda talk talk about the impeachment process. Nothing big political battle just talking about the process and what happens. And then we're talking about Lebron James Farts or at least one okay. The fart heard around the world may news today and the box office so strap-on and join us. Let me go ahead and weapon the rest of the people in here. We already spoked the angels in the congregation here. Now let's talk to you. Let's talk to Yolo Sin. And Nasdaq. She'd been on all weekend. You probably prior to run the streets like we were last night. I saw you Maher James Bond last night. That was a nice suit man. Thanks mom got mad at me. I awesome smarter shift when I came into a lawsuit old good evening Nice suit putting putting images in like. That's that's not you but you kind of look like that last night came and told Martin I know you work at a Martin role. We looked at me like you marketers. They're in front of adult appeal. Because Negro fuck you but he just said hey how you doing marketplace black might the front office people. I know who use them. Before you got my trauma excel and having a good time talking to everyone coming in with that. It's like Nope nope the man it was good. That's GonNa see the hanging out we send a little bit ourselves. Let Talking Shit drinking having a good time even left. I was talking to you talking about last night man. I'm just not going to drink anymore take my Arizona go to bed. I feel bad for you because you were. You would try to keep it light. But the hostess she was like Harry Potter glasses just kept filling up every time I know is she would do that. Shit where it was like. 'cause I I would of I'll be able to look forward to sneak up on you know there was a moment. I tried to stop and she just put her hand around. Oh my next three sh you soon when you go waste this and of course. Of course there's a lot of a lot shorter around the world. Don't have alcohol even before you got there. That was talking about the party's going it's autopilot. Now you set it out. He had to keep in the hostess. No no no. This is what I must do. I know her I know I. I told Chris Herman about her last night because I I told him everything I came and I said I say I say you can. You can go to this party if you like. I don't think they're going to say anything. Become over and what I don't I don't know I just slipped emerson. Man Look I e ex-girlfriend shingle Shaimaa who are bringing. We still close nearly. Oh really and I just got into the store I was like. Yeah Man I said. This chick is the first Turkish chick been with one of many infecting me. Get Out of your system. It's almost gave me a virus. Dr What have Turkey is Hopefully is cured as it either. I told him I said man it was the weirdest thing because I remember going to Turkey to see. Hey girl and while I was there she called. Here's how it worked out so it was funny because she called just to say. Hey three things happened. I wanted to go see one. Turkish girl is this. When you went to second Tucker's girlfriend I don't miss the only one I've been negoti? I ain't nobody okay. All right I'll just like creeping into sneaking over to Turkey left the first one that you like no way the source is what it was quick because all the she came down at once like I went to I went to see one girl and then while I was there another girl called pretty much kind of insinuate. She's been divorced right so she was kind of like. Hey what are you doing I as I said what do you like. I got a bitch so I'm like I said I mean Turkey. Visiting Chick Right now is oh. It's kind of went south right there. A little bit tried to stay in but then the woman we've talked with last night she she had called and said Hey I assume message saying I am a municipal right now but when I get back. Let's just go in Amsterdam Wallace. Go get some coffee or something and I was like. I'm here. I'm here right now. She said would you come over and I was like well. She's like I don't care both come over. Went over to her place and when I got there I went so we walked in an assault. The House that she was in like damn. I don't know you roll like this. And she said Oh this house this is just a guest house like fuck okay that that explains something because being at her house last night I was like this is a big place. It might be old but it's big and it's a high price part of Austin and she lives alone alone yeah like she must be rolling mill. I was in the guest house. Guest House was big in. I told Chris Harman that Shit last night and Chris Armas like well. What what's what's the fuck the Prince Ali? She you know you go into not like I was talking to her. Like Oh shit was due to my brother always does. Is this like you've been told I even told me I know I know Kidman Like Will Smith I. I told her no offense but God damn I would have worked harder to keep this. I wouldn't have been I. I even told you. I told her one time I was like well. I was kind of low tipsy when I looked at her and I said as a girl you got money I said you know that explains what he it was such a Brat and she's been places where I've just been we we've just hanging Out in a baby just baby would even cry. She is so anti baby baby. A baby would be sitting next to us and the baby. Jesus has Christ painting fucking kids that she baby. The baby was breathing. faulk was he told a story last night. y'All get other how. All she knew was that she needed kids. And you did a cartoon strip about a character who didn't like kids and she was like I gotta get with that guy. I wouldn't even like a real anti kid cartoon. When she saw that she thought cartoon about staying in her mind is in my soul mate? That I don't like kids I gotTa guys awesome. He gets me no one ever gets me. Oh let's go ahead and get you guys up here in the studio let me go ahead and put invite out there. You look at the show right now. That means you have a keyboard somewhere break close in the vicinity pop. It Open type K cool man at Jima Dot Dot Com. That's K. C. O. Z.. Jima Dot Com questions comments compliments insults vice show this evening mask you to the Chacha. If you will want to join us here email pick some contact information bone number video content anything that takes hold of us. Aw you twist basically type of sorts for me. Prep time. That is what that. It's not actually posting Improv. Time with me you gotta get with me for that platform dies say facebook is dying. But I'm still over there so Gorna hit me up quarterback open dot five bumped to visit. They're bringing the spirit to pokes Minister Mart on twitter. Instagram Martin underscore broke or if the market calms. Don't take a look at times. Church diva let us know. What your plans for Austin you come in here offering has something that everybody wants everybody ends up? And if that's you Komo through to get the door. Say Hi on emails K.. Cooman Gee but I can give some details. Give you some details that way we're going to accommodate you do. Hey Look I keep telling Ya Ya. Thank I'm playing but a week from today this you know what when people years from now when children are sitting around they're giving each other double toast trivia. One of the questions would be what is the first show that went over the twitch before they failed miserably talk with what day was it. December first of two thousand nineteen is the answer for that a week from today we'll make an full transition over to twitch everything at least most things are going to be over on twitch taking all the main shows over there and everything should still be pretty much saying the website is still going to be around except the twitch play they will be there to where you see those things to watch this they can still come to double toes dot com but it'll be watching through twitch it'd be watching through their player okay and the chat will twitch. We'll be over there including our chat. So you've got choices and you can go to the twitch channel also watch so you can watch any of the place on different now is to your benefit shows are going to be free just going to have to put commercials up there. We have to do three minutes of commercials every hour. WILL THEY BE A. I don't WanNA see commercials option. Yes that's where you subscribe. Okay so if you subscribe up to our twist channel which you can do for Free Amazon prime account so you have no real excuse some people already been subscribing. Some people put subscriptions for a whole a whole year. Yes so so. If that is you in Thailand just he was like is just can't he was telling me here making it rain. Yeah just dump subscriptions on people man appreciate that Sir and you'll be able to watch for free. We have to do commercials every hour three commercials every hour and not going to be abrupt. It's not going to be something where stops a show. I actually we will be able to say would be back up these messages and so I'm have to press a button and then you've got still see us and we'll have some activity going on while the commercials happening and then we come back. The show will resume and we will have also double toasted dot com for special. VIP Perks are people who still subscribe over there. Okay so I can tell you what's GonNa Happen Right now. In hopefully things will be changed this week and go pretty smooth but if you already are subscribed subscriptions will go down two three dollars and if you log it it is a bargain. Has such a bargain are and their baggage. Thank you got to pay extra. Oh Wow that's that's the way Disney plus it is man it is. It is shows lots more who needs baby. Yoda just pay about the same age exactly and just patriots. Yeah we'll just pay degree and put some here. Here's the over again for the three dollars. Well we got some special streams that will still happen on that site so we can't do the viewing parties like we do do here like there on twitch so you'll be able to get the party. We'll have a couple of other exclusive streams that gone on there such as when I'm doing bad reviews so you get these like the you know these. Oh Shit I keep keep Alec will be. We probably will go into control that because those. That's the notification for the follows. Okay so I turned it all except for that one speaker right there but so you know so I guess people just follow even when the show's not streaming onto its use rudy. Ray Moore's take your hands off me and we use Dinsdale for the Subscriptions start changing it up a little bit more but when you subscribe you hear you fool as bitch may puck. Dislo Dislo of foolishness bitch may and would tallin are a dime when he gets out. Descriptions like about twenty five one day in Diso it off everybody. The fula bitch made punk but yeah we'll be I'll be you know we do sometimes Special reviews do bad reviews and whatnot. So those things it'd be over there also thinking about doing streams letting people vote on certain content that we do so those things would be over there and abuse interviews on the interviews will still be. That's that's GONNA move over to twitch and that's what I've been doing all interviews on anyway. Okay I'm in the last few so also have some other tears because that's going to be like a Patriot model so there'd be some tears in there that you haven't seen before all volunteer apollon Terry. Of course you have to do that at all like there'd be one tier two That will that if people pay a certain amount they'll get very special treatment when they come to Austin Austin because people come through all the time so if you pay a certain amount of money and you come to Austin and we have proved that you actually paid that that for that tier right there. Then you get to Austin. We'll take out and reach an ice and rabbitohs look you feet and all kinds of stuff doesn't want that it'll be another the more you get the real around. Yeah you get a happy ending up. Put Your name for their. There'll be another. Where if you pay a certain pre mountain that'll help get people people in town like maybe fly is in? Maybe even Danielle sometimes might help us to produce other things like we gotta go kidnap. What can up? Yeah we don't have to is is wants to come here still be like if I don't if I don't bring moby he's GonNa hijack a plane and get over here. Oz bring people over like maybe monthly. We have maybe monthly goals. May We want to bring a certain guest in May WanNa do something for a special event You you know like we were talking about doing screenings. Sometimes we had that directing here. Yeah what's his name Sanjay. Maybe we WANNA produce a you know some other kind of content like maybe a animated short or something and if people want to contribute to those things they can and they'll they'll get credit on that and also if they that'll be in the same kind of tier where they come to town and if view helped produce something you bring somebody in We'll put your name up there on on those things and also will treat you real nice when you come into town you get that Martin special and so yeah you know there's a there's a real there's a real big change on some things but a lot of things will remain the same in those things shouldn't affect you if you've been kind of used to what we're doing right now except for free watching still complain. People always confines of sobriety free. Shit it makes you look cheap when you shit away for free. I don't know if I want to be right here in what you cheat. motherfucking people always find a way to hate some they give him give him some getting mad. I suppose hey. How's the puppet coming along Martin? Are you having Metal Robo Corey yet have you now. It's here is he. Okay it is bad ass man. I mean I know I'm talking about a puppet master bad has done. Show me a pre picture and I was like what the hell is that. He's not ready yet. Yeah it is here and it came in and came in a really small box. I know what it was until they in the top it says do not cut and I had a knife on my hair like Oh shit. That's like a bit him. Yeah people are done help to pay for a puppet that we wanted to do game streams with because twitch like getting like that and whatnot and and when it came through a pulled it out and it came up better than Arctic oatmeal. Yeah it's actually really amazing. Men The job that they did on it and for the price that they did it for somebody else to do. I didn't ask them to do anything I just does it. Just make me a simple puppet cloth and ask for an estimate and they got back with quick enough like. Oh that's cool. These guys would be the ones they get they get back real quick after Ivanov you picture and hear what you want. Oh should be that much but about seventy five hundred dollars in lake cloth ray. We're talking about. I mean come alive. Five at night and kill People Bubis does that could talk on his own much. Isn't that right. Oh you bet that bitch but not take no work at all. I ask for animatronic robot for that much money. Man Put a dead child. How soul and he's the cost money? I had to kidnap the kids. We have to cover up the crime. We have to murder him. You know. That's actually as you saw a bag but yeah man he came through and I tried it out and everything even my even my wife I was I got I'm manipulated is with the. I got her freakishly because she was in. The bed not came in sneak Dan when she was still asleep and she woke up to shit out talking to them. They don't be afraid cleanse. You knew this Wisconson. She did this. I was a puppy because when I was talking to with the puppet and she looked at me and I did the puppies. It don't look at him. I'm talking to you. This is arguably it used to say. Hey can I get a kiss as you'd like. Oh okay I mean the puppet already. Fighting the dog was the is incredible Pixie was in new. I took it out. She thought it was a hold of the person she uploaded on on the. Hey she cast so. Yeah what we plan on doing with the puppet is is doing gain streams. Okay so you know. When there's certain types of games we thought it might be kind of cool with this in Yeah we you know Chris Dodd and it should be fun man it's You know in a win. Yeah we back into gaming to a Lotta people been asking man we play some games are all these new games are about to drop. They dropped it is. It is expensive to play the game as an expensive hobby. But they do have a service where we advertise for one of those services No I don't know if we like the net flicks of games. We were doing. No that's we've talking about the Netflix of horror. No no no no. We were all studio. He's talking about that's something gave fly. Oh game flower. The all the Games. Yeah Yeah. Well it's happening because xbox all these services getting almost their own streaming services now are they getting all subscription services like xbox has one where you know you pay on what what is it like twenty buck. Is it not ten bucks ten bucks a month and you can go through and just download games and play what you want you know so. I'm thinking about doing that because yeah it's it's now that we're starting to play more games. That's just going to get expensive man. You know otherwise sixty bucks a pop to play these games off your taxes will should I do anyway Eh. I read up here. I make sure I took business when I go out. Even if it's just brief I'll bring up the business when we go somewhere even if it's just a man double toasted anyway. Congratulations on your wedding. By the way have you checked out the new. Yeah yeah man you know I try to write off everything you know. There's a like when I go to dinner with somebody. DT Let me tell me these last Looking at a photo to yes man. we got new products in there. Got Those slides that in their Christmas shirts that coming pretty soon but in the meantime checking our headline right there which we have these weird as well as people have been Bonnie shirts and show me pictures and people look very good. I mean I mean you know. It's no classic black the white logo but those are very charming as well along with many other things that we have in dettmer dot com which is something else that is not going to be changing changing. Let me move over to which that will always be the same. Thank you ask them about Putin. Warn you you should see is actually pretty cool. They like the hands of the fingers. Moving in every man is death. So how do you control all. Oh you know when I say the fingers moves gotta stick on it you can actually been the fingers owe them further. Yeah move the hands. Yeah yeah man so you can't make it do this or you know be creepers finds. Yes yeah you know you. If you're doing this up some villainous shit. I mean he just doing this but we see that's why he's crazy he's evil. I rest my case Clause Times bother me yesterday golf so glad because they had to go to cocktail party he was he was all these bad movies. which are gonNA serve a purpose now last night? Eighty still amy. I'm watching that rover Dangerfield. I have a fucking life send. My wife doesn't want me do this. Shit Man. You ruined my marriage Manley alone we see. Let me bring up. Let's talk to some people that we haven't talked to before I talked to in a long time Let's talk to Danielle Danielle. Come on. Let's talk to you but I don't over there don't you don't go with don't you. Re right there. Yes why we always while we started like this. Just sit GAM GAM cam Z.. Cam She she used to always complain about sitting on that side. I was like we would be in the studio sometime John. Just be her and She just want to sit over here because for some reason that was good. I have angles. You know you. Don't you got curves. I'm good how you doing. I'm good happy to be here nervous. Eight hundred crazy shit. You say on camera now you nerve Gab. But not being on camera for so long. It's just kind of a different by you know you you. You're going to be nervous at ten minutes and then you're gonNA take over. Oh I'm nervous. He's he's must get bad. That's cool this this is maybe we did spill. There was a girl named Stephanie Livingston. Like she's dead but no this girl names. Stephanie Livingston she may plus She's of us back in the day and this is one of the things I always really thought it was cool ashamed. It was yeah so I mean cory. Yeah Yeah it's funny because when people are here like we had to do interviews and no one's here to help me focus the camera anything. I'll put little corey on the chair. It focuses just right here. Say like this just like shoot just jealous when I'm bringing in the puppet in here You Ain't none shy about about this girl at all nothing today when she came in 'cause 'cause she came in at eleven o'clock to drop her bags off off because she stayed with us. Tonight we stay long. Have you in town. But yes she's staying with US tonight and letting in and she drops the bank allocated house. Oh I was just going for room to room me upstairs. She sleeps out now because because I noticed every detail. I I'm helping my brother-in-law flip these houses so I would never notice the baseboards and the wall color and the trim and everything. I'm like beautiful. Unlike your it looks good. It's a beautiful house. He did not once they can go. Look at your bedroom just busted open the door shit. Oh that bad. Wow this target fun. Emme as came into sat on the bed while we line there she. Would you expect something different from wooding creeping down here they come out like why her to make yourself at home fucked as an expression of the bill. Yeah exactly how how I just love it. The plants and everything alley back there and alcohol like no no. It was a good habit. It's good to see you and me talking for a long time. I love let me on the bed and they they start talking me just laying on the bed with each other and I just. Wow this is all right was that I don't know why it's fucking hot but man it was it. was you meal along talking to you. We always have but it's really I just don't see a talk like a lot of guests. Come over Oh yes yes so you know. It was good seeing you guys out in the desktop yes connecting. That was good having you here. What were you in town for? I found on frontier for thirty dollars. Yeah man if you hey if you can get the frontier to actually fly you somewhere like I'm not I guy worked with the same thing with us. He was went to Vegas ready to fly back and they told him like. Oh Yeah we cancelled. That's a flight. All right wins. The wind can get an x one two days from now. They were just unapologetic. No we don't compensate. You is just like hey come back in two days. Good luck yeah. Yeah well I knew I knew at the end of the day you know. It's thirty bucks may or may not happen but also didn't have anything to lose. That doesn't have all book. Another flight was missing as soon as she told me. She just packed a pair of underwear. I wear the same clothes I don't really wear underwear. Didn't even bring one pair but I did bring three pants. I I said three shirts strew. Jeez feminist yeah. It's better for you to know where it is. It really. Yeah it's better for women peanuts and easy take you just for you to say something once. Go off she came she came in just talking about. She's been flocking there. There is no good girl that you deny those words. Do not come out your mouth was it. You don't appreciate okay. Well thanks again until I'm in in love in love with Dick turnover turnover newly. That's a good question. What's the right man? The next to walk through the door. Now what are you looking for. I mean I don't know I don't WanNa be single forever but I just WANNA settle for shy now I was. I will say this. I was very impressed with your endurance with with China. Because the reason why she loved she said that she was going to China to teach English right. And you said that you at least give it a year yes and and you did. Yes yeah you get the fuck out of their media. I Talk Shit. I'm GonNa tell you that girl was on ship. Yeah as you know was he gonna be back at grilling onto a goddamn thing over there but as beck around and get back over here I wanted to bad you show me the circumstances that you were living under. Ah The I I am. I'm amazed and I'm impressed with the place that she was living in. You saw. She showed people in here. The place that she was living in is when they say a closet. Yeah that's exactly what she had. What she's living in is Yossi this screen? It was about the size of this. Yeah I mean it was only fifty sixty square foot and it was twelve hundred a month and it was very very small. I shared a bathroom with seventeen other people on the floor. What you were looking at living in a service elevator at a hotel is just you climb up those little stairs? That was my little bed and had a small window. But if you if you if you lay on your back and then you sit up you hit your head so you can't be getting too quick. I mean little things. You never what you're looking at people you looking at this is it. There's no other room beyond this. So you see that there is a sink right next to that is a little tiny desk. Not Think it's just a vessel. You know it's just a hallway with the MIR MIRA right there. That's that's looking at no. There's no stove. I'd I'd never kitchen sink. nope that's just a mirror that's hanging on the wall. Oh Shit and that's reflecting the corner. That's a mirror hallway. The dinner the size of this table thought that was a sink now. No Saint in Denton. indenture right there that is that is really always hallway is. Yeah that's a that's a shoebox. Yeah and then you just leave your suitcase on the bottom there because you have nowhere else to put your clothes and then Just chair at a laptop in and just visit the outside world through pretty much I worked if the wife I worked as a prison cell that yeah prisoners. Get better than when I tell you I myself myself of all my luxuries and even like simple luxuries like being able to communicate. I really hard solitaire. But what are they says says six Six by four sale. Or whatever when you go to prison yeah that is what you got right there. That would be a luxury apartment to that. I mean it's the toilet in the floor. Nope no toilet you. There's a twenty minute but you have to climb out of bed then there are corpses with more rooms. You've got a big business kind. Yeah I know crazy if you died there they would just submit it over and go. Yeah visitors ship off and she's still managed to bring big motherfuckers in that aspect. Yeah she said she brought in a six foot dude. She said that he fits them hell. He looked like a Bali yarn. Am like you. I can't really stand up. Yeah I'm like you're not going to stand up. And he was like yeah right. I'm like no really is. He gets anything crouching underneath my told you Jesus it's like all right just a ball limbs talked to try. Try to have sex. y'All probably like a puzzle. Yeah well you put these two people Jabil Jingle. Yeah this is this is crazy. I don't blame you for hating China. Well that wasn't it though. I mean that was one of the worst parts but just getting around and trying to move around and get a cab and figure out where the bank is and even to open a bank account they push me away like five times like if everything is not perfect perfect on there. They don't want you to open a bank account. Why would you want to give our money to take active? You know they well they do because they want you to be able to speak and teach English so the community because it's so important to them but they really are just jealous and intimidated and just kind of mean really you should just you know it's just westernized people. It's just how reviewed all over the world. You know it is really yeah. You don't think people. Oh you're American. Oh she stopped that American. You know what I mean. It's kind of with other Asian people with very cool why they were very welcoming very yet. I mean they might talk shit about your back when you leave or something. I don't know maybe when you're visiting thing but living there of course I met some wonderful people that were the locals from there. That embraced me and really helped me with acclimating but so it wasn't like all everybody was rude but man they just run into you and push you excuse me. They don't say excuse me it's like a New York yeah way more people in wastewater space. Yeah I don't yeah I don't blame you. I don't blame you man. This is I mean you say this about Hong Kong but major cities that just like that premium in you know people are just busy. It's expensive I don't WanNa live in a big city me and my wife wants to live in a big city so bad. Yeah she's talking talking to you about and I was like all right. You started making big money we can do with it. I said we moved to look. We moved to Turkey. You supporting me. Because I don't I'll tell you right now. I'm I'm content being right here where it's still reasonable. Yeah you know it's not it's not crazy just yet I mean might be on his way. Ra doing crazy shit around with prices. You know drink. Prices are ready to go on and all these. I think the board you guys in Hong Kong I order drinks and it was ninety dollars. So there's lots yeah because it's 39.99 perjuring plus tip plus tax ax. you go out the door. A hundred dollars it with the Ritz. But it ain't cheap shit ain't cheap now you spend money on crazy shit. I I don't like you can just go get a beer for five bucks but you chose the most expensive. I mean it was my favorite bar and it was on where I live. I mean can you I think like even the most expensive bar charge you forty dollars for it. Yes yes I can't. That's how it is yes. I can happen in New York did it. Yeah ordered a were order to halt. Wasn't Eric go helped us get our place in. LA vice go to some party. Some exclusive club somewhere. Are we in their ordered Tequila. Sodas just what it says Tequila in Soda. We didn't get special kon-tiki Landon thing regular Tequila. And just because they are who who they are and their New York I end up spending like sixty dollars to drink thinking a place you can even get stupid. Yeah man it's not unusual. Yeah Eh is especially. If it's like New Year's holiday or something Fox. Yeah let's I bring it with me. I'm all about that to you. Ask around me with two. I had to stop doing it because I really would come on. Can you feel like that with the flask or I put this away. But I'll buy those little dollar dollar to dollar airplane bottles specs and buy a bunch of them with me. They non wrong with that. You know. It's funny we live in an age now where they are we it now. These businesses know what they're doing conditioning people to actually look at you like you're the one you're the crazy one has been money like you're is not reasonably anymore is cheap motherfucker. That's what you are. He called me that. Oh yeah call. Yeah Yeah just so happens. I'm cheap Bin- the day's new here. Am I in terms of just catching up with me. Yeah man you a cheap you know you you. It's no longer thrifty just measly. I Okay I don't care I don't care I don't WanNa go out and spend my life thing and it's really easy to do. I've been hitting up these. He's happy hours the other day and I am a walking out happy. I just can't do the hangover's anymore like I'll blow money on alcohol. I don't care but like I just want to be hung over. It Ruins your memories of what a good time you had your whole day's ruined very cool about not drinking too much till I got friends like you come in them. Yeah let's be careful foale tonight. Bullshit we know you. What do you do this? I feel like I talked to two different Danielson. It's the same conversation like earlier today. She was you should've heard she's like yeah. I got to market. I'M GONNA get fucked up. I'm Oh hang on but I've been taking care of eight month baby this whole time. I've been here like I wanna just let little than dogs for the pin. Be Like Oh be careful. Yo 'cause that's okay it's not be hung over. You said you wanted to be hung over here we go. I don't WanNa leave leave upside already. Take with you. I WANNA make a lot of money but I do not WANNA pay taxes. What about those no hose? You live by those those drinks you swig before you drink those things those work they do work smarter and take the proper steps. Can't fly home home. It's good just leave scanning confused me now. I hate that thick. I hate that which I cannot understand. Destroy Yeah we'll try to destroy it. You want to go drink. And she wants to some to kill. Jesus I just want Tequila shots. It's we started out just getting especially whiskey and that being in no she's had just want to kill the shots like nothing. Yeah I remember I went to tell you about that gas out there in this storm. Why can tell you about it that guy that just sits shit like like? It wasn't wrong all alone. It was completely normal that I just want to hand you this. Yeah this guy. Is this bar got by looking at us. And he just he just he was. He looked pitiful to kind of almost crying. He's like a bad guy but really just want to hand job. Ah I was waiting for one of us to save from who they gave us three hundred dollars I think it was. We're going to do a good job Rome. I use my fears. I gave a bone. uh-huh use my ears era Dimitri Dimitri and it was going on. Let's talk real quick. I can't sit next to Martin. You have to sit there. They're so why does everybody wants to know what you want to smell like minus great barbecue going uh-huh and coordinate we totally talking to migrate. I hate when we were in L.. A. I got to talk to you for maybe three sentences I was. I had such plans I was like. I'M GONNA come out to la La boys and then you guys got mobbed because I live in La now regularly forget how many people there are in La. There's too Goddamn many and I say that was there for one year and a lot of over here. Sorry but yeah I mean I I want to say that to like. I'm sorry we didn't get to talk a whole lot and I wanted to. I wanted to no. I didn't I didn't expect the layout of the place to be like a was like you say we will get mobbed not necessarily Hamill Brian. Anything it was like it was I was on. I was in awe right. How many people came to worship you like at the throne seasons for? How did you see my hands up? Don't the dreaded he was healing the blind not install a run to talk to you man. I'm glad that you hear I'm let's see now we can hang out. I want you to come to the house. Thank you hang out with us. You Ain't working this week. I haven't taken a little work this week but I am not working primarily like well. We'll have to. We'll have time. I want to talk to the media because because Dmitry doing big things man. This guy's always great to see people who just hit it. Big always told Martin. I say you know what. That's the kind of brother that white people like. He doesn't scare scare them threatening. He's done give give he's GonNa go places in life man. It's funny that you say that because when I was in elementary school the kids used to call me an almond joy. They'd say you're Brown on on the outside and nobody likes you. That's the kind of Shit that turns into shoot super villains or you become a success so you know what success is the best form form of revenge hats and I keep telling him I heard a story about in when you take that is dry and her story about Adam Sandler Adam Sandler say what you will about his movies and whatnot but yes say some. We don't know our sandler say what you will about. Him is moving but apparently the guys like real cool. There's a story out there about him where he is. And it's not it's not urban legend is true his his His one of his teachers is acting teacher in College. The sandown he he said. Let's go get a beer and shit teacher wants to be like I must be the star Star. Pupil is up and he sat down and he's like. Hey I just wanted to tell you man this acting thing give it up. What's the best way to get a little tipsy? Just let you know it's just not you're just not may Ford stop and so Naro by talking about how great he is in his movie. Uncut Jim I Yeah Yeah and so. The story came out where you know. Now he's big and the billionaire and everything he he runs into this teacher at a bar and not just the teachers she just try to walk out. Going in the uh-huh Adam Sandler could've brought a moment. said he got this motherfucker. said I wouldn't be anything and look at me now. Billionaire again there you still no okay. Alcohol awesome but what he did was he they brought everybody's openness there. Hey guys I want you to meet real cool guy. This is the only teacher that ever took me out for a beer. I I teach right before you almost got to say. Hey go get your shine. uh-huh walked outside. Yeah look at me now bitch under a good. Tell people what you're doing. I am a staff writer for the Disney Channel. TV Show Gary Durant and the untouchables. You can see nine pm on Fridays on Disney channel. Nice so yeah you and you got into this position how I have been wanting I've been wanting to be a TV writer for a long longtime. I used to work in government. I was lobbyist. I'm I'm really excited to talk about impeachment today so I will have to talk about it. I was GONNA say three degrees in politics. I very any any questions questions you have but now I was doing a lot. I'm here for you. I'm here for you doing the job and I've just realized I'm not happy and one of the things that you're proud of what you're doing but you can't. You can't put your head on the pillow at the end of the day and say I enjoy what I'm doing I'd always wanted to write for TV. And I just took it on myself to just start learning. I took Class A few classes at the second city. I kept entering to a bunch of contests and I'd have people like grant Davis redistrict warming giving notes on it. I just. I did everything I could to learn as much in. DC and finally admitted to all the networks have writing competitions for your mentorships and diversity hires and stuff like that. I finally got through in one of those got into the. CBS writers mentorship program actually. Yeah last year they teach you everything you need to know about the business. Yes and they also help you improve your writing. got a script out of their landed in agent landed a manager and just in September. I landed a job. What agency are you? I'm I'm with Rothman. Brecher Eric. Livingston Guys Awesome Man. That's what they do. Some worked for them. I think a caterer event one time and they said you did a great job sandwich. Stop eating all the food Jet If you have any questions on maybe how to become a writer succeed in writing the long way so. There are a number of mistakes that I've I made that I can help you. Not Make I mean. Don't try to take jed if you never take those contests seriously. You're the first person I've got to keep in mind. There's some contests are absolute bullshit. Like pay a bunch of money and some asshole and like Indonesia and it'll be like your script was good and then that's a terrible Chad. If you have any questions for Dimitri Mitri over here let us know of sheer some. You are aspiring creatives out there and you WanNa know how it is because you gave you the short version vision of probably WanNa give them some realities. There's hard parts to like there lots of times when I was writing and I was in. DC and. I wasn't wasn't winning a contest. I wasn't even placing like this. This is I'm almost. I was getting up there almost thirty. I know it sounds like nothing. Some people look at the time it sounded like a nightmare. I'm almost thirty. This isn't happening. I don't think I can sustain in doing this. Maybe I should just keep doing my job and set up but endurance is important. I got some questions for you. Of course here. Some paradox wants to know. Do you get Disney Disney. Plus for free you can open the question. That was worry we we might not get any legitimate intimate questions. I do not yet Disney plus for free. Unfortunately there are that when it comes to contracts they are shrewd negotiators over at Disney. And they're not gonNA give our show runners who run the show the all they wanted all they wanted where you know. Maybe some silver passes the park. Nice now here's another question from skull so what was the worst mistake. You haven't made the worst mistake ever made. I entered a bunch of those contests that I thought were legitimate. Paid a ton of money for a bunch of a bunch of people who didn't even read the script to to read the script but there are another one thing I do want to talk about a you. There are lots of people who will work on one thing for really long period of time and eventually you have to learn to let go get notes on it gets trusted people get some is on it and if you're done with it let it go. You can't keep keep trying to make things perfect you got to move onto the next one need a wide portfolio. I've been working on one script for four years and that was all I was working on and then when people people ask Hey. Do you have anything else. I didn't have an answer. Nothing so device help at all. I 'cause he says look like somebody here let let me see here. I'll take the scroll up again real quick and this is a let me say. This is a blue. Jean knows paradox. Paradoxes sounds like like you took his advice. If you want to be a writer then just right. That's I remember. Having that conversation view I remember I was very drunk and I want to save violet. Crown Corio worldview. All of your man allows crying. 'cause you know and that's a bitch that's kind of mentorship you need. You need a mentor. WHO's GonNa call you bitch? That's very uh-huh desert Washington. Exactly exactly no you want to just right every single day does that mean good an emmy winner or an Oscar winner just like right something every day. Keep the habit going like once. I got the habit going of writing every day leaps and bounds. Every day I was getting better and better and when you make it a habit Abbott is. You can't help but right every day. Harlan Ellison used to say to a writer writes every day. Something small always right. If you're talking about what you think about writing you're not doing it that's it. I have a friend who writes. He's another writer another show. He writes fifty five words short stories every day. He challenges himself to write a story and fifty. I words as a beginning a middle Internet and he doesn't everyday. Here's another question. This is from Gene Gene. He's one with this question. He says fellow author here. What do you like writing? I like to think that I specialize in the workplace comedy. I really it was thirty rock. That inspired me to write so I like to think that workplaces are essentially families. You're spending more time at work than you are with your actual family. So the dynamics there I find it very interesting. I'm primarily comedy many my agent. Keep trying to get me into drama. That's too many pages. I'm trying to twenty two minutes. Maximum maximum I love writing comedy I love workplace as comedy. I love political comedy came up in politics I did but obviously I just want to try all sorts of new. I WANNA accomplish one with comedy. You look at the shows like the good place. They're like actually a treatise on ethics. That's the kind of thing I would love to tell you. We had gone to we were in DC dropping affect college and went out to dinner and Dmitry was there and he had the entire table laughing all night. Not Immediate a refunding gun. Nah I was I was you. You know similar peer trying to get some stuff together for the show and I heard you over there Cracking jokes and whatnot and Alstead. Damn you know he's quick. Make me be real things in the writer's room. I'm not the fastest one there. Because you're the newest the newest we have some people there who are just lightning fast fast. I can't even keep up so another thing. Another word of advice. I would throat to anyone taking improv class. I haven't done it yet so I should take some advice myself taking Improv class. So you had to be quick on your feet speed gland something quickly and it's hilarious. You are seen as invaluable in the room. Yeah that's the kind of thing you need. Yeah I was the actually get jealous of us. Jesus this motherfucker feel insecure. It'd be happy for people's success but I'll be jealous. I don't ever do that Gel. Jealousy drives me man. That's what I'm here. Today wasn't a petty motherfucking. You know you you say all that but I'm going to cite the old commercial. I learned learned it from watching you gracious either. It's your humility that I really welcome man. I'm like listening to the shows. I've been a fan since two thousand six hundred member of the flash animation on Youtube. I'm like these guys are fast asked. They're funny now. I don't know how much do editing. Maybe maybe a lot all right fair enough look to your this show like when you guys were doing the thing and I would come to awesome. I would ask you for advice. It's like if I have a creative. I think I have a creative gene and may is you guys who taught me how to get it out there and you gave me the courage to pursue. It's really saying thank you. Put your pants stroke in me. The question here Marcus. Marcus whereas that question Marcus Let me see here. Where are you marcus? Yeah Question Oh there. It is Dimitri question. Any authors writers of movies are. TV shows that you draw inspiration from for you work. That's a great question. I am a huge fan of everything. Michael Shurmur does parks and recreation. Obviously the good place. I love the work of Dan Gore or as well Brooklyn nine nine Tina Fey if she's on it. I'm paying attention In terms of movies I love Filler. Chris Miller and Phil Lord obviously spider versus their most recent success but I was watching clone high back in the day when I was a kid. You remember that was them those Chris Miller that was their first ever thing it was. It was hilarious enormous failure and anyone who when I find a clone high fan. I A friend for life because like you get good Shin. Nice Stephen No. You're clone high very Dmitri you know very very happy for you man seriously. It's not that makes me feel better than seeing somebody that we've known for longtime go out for their dreams and then achieve it to you know you've been trying to do this for a while. It's been a little bit and there were times where I thought it wasn't going to happen but I now I just I made it. I'm too stupid to quit. But perseverance is important. Well let me just give appreciate it all the more when you get it absolutely is the worst thing that could have happened with you being successful as well right off the bat always going to be like this and clearly I had the touch I have no need to improve. I have learned how to struggle. So that's part of it too because that's that working Hollywood. You're on certain contracts. The looks good. Now you're it's a real boom bus kind of thing until you get into like the deep rent productions like a making a making a good amount of money right now but when the contract comes in I gotta find the next job or brought back for the next the next season so it's nomadic lifestyle that's true you got it. You have to be constantly hustling I need you to. I need you to shit for me. I want to do it. Why won't I want to autograph okay? So you'll put some Bush. Yeah I'm not going to cherish sell it. That's the same I would say. Yes I want you to have him signing here so only piece is some radical shift from your bag eh tag from luxury traveling so the only thing I could buy apartheid reminders. Remind yourself all right. Sure why not I want you to see this and we we have proof then signing it right here and your name is Carrie right taught my name is fuck you would appear. AH TO HORRY WITH A K.. This sir exclamation point or maybe a flower. Yeah that is the skinniest Peterson. This I made it off of mind. It's about the same size There it is people Dimitri has signed that force. You saw it here. I when he hits real big which I'm not saying he hasn't hit a big number when you become not just you know written by Blah Blah Blah to meet your compliment by bobby you know when it's like Dmitry pumping presents. I'll I'm hoping that's what I wanna you do when you get to the staff writer stage it's like the beginning of mortal combat. Where you look up you see Shao Kahn at the top? There's a lot more to do in this field. I am I am still nobody wonder. Should I know you know what I don't like it. Fuck out here. Ah So good to see these people. Do I know these people back babies. Don't come home for Thanksgiving. We can have some awkwardness. Glad to glad to see you hanging out with Dmitry. Yeah I thought he was. He was saying fuck now. This is this is plenty of hanging on our rights All right well. Let's go ahead and getting to so into the show which we are catching up with people that everybody had seen people here for a while. You know we got Pat Stream at nine on. I've been it's been great reconnecting with everybody here. Danielle it's great to have you here. We'll get Daniel back definitely get Dimitri back to talk about impeachment Because I want us. Yeah Yeah I don't know the book I'm talking about somebody. I was talking about last night. Somebody did looked at me like you completely wrong. What are you doc? All right. Let's go ahead and get into the Martin. Remember when everybody remember me when everybody was hyped for that man delorean set you coming the two of the best in the PERSIC. Would you agree. Yeah Boy Star Wars is back baby. Beef back is back because we can back with. Amanda Lorient the reason why thirty year we waited a lot of shit but but we we deserve what we get right now the Mandel Lori lawyer looking at this Airbud excited because we can back to that to the dirtiness Innis getting back to the scum and villainy that greedy western feeling. That old Gangsta Shit. Man I just love it arch not not I. I'm loving man nut. None of that. None of that cute goof ups kid stuff sin begging like man I was talking about rough and dirty dirty star wars in by the end of the episode. We were like Oh so killed. We thought we was talk. Shit we thought we will hardcore mark none none of us none of us. None of us could resist the power. Our of Baby Iota right here. You know it's a it looked a loved it across the two hundred Chihuahua and somebody's grandma the little little old ladies. That look like a excuse me. Can you tell me which are the you know this is. This is something man with this baby Yoda. This thing is becoming phenomenon man with with something that we thought would not ever be associated with anything cute and cuddly. And you know this man to Laurie and you know and we all we could not resist the moment right from the first episode Martin. The moment that the Lauren the tough fear bounty hunter when he did that. Et Finger touch wood. Baby Baby Iota right there. Turn that tough bounty hunter and to a pitch along with the rest of us. Man Betrayed his principles but with trae his principles men. Our Hearts Milton when that happened. And I'm going to tell you today. Do not be fooled by this thing this baby iota. y'All fallen for you. You talking about how cute it is. But I'm gonNA tell eighty something behind those big adorable. Is this something very cold. The something calculating us going on with this thing here and and that cold and calculating thing can bring down everything that we have grown to love about this series the Mandolin and if you've been watching the show some of them may be obvious. Some of you might have already mentioned some of it. Some of it. I might need to make you aware of what you're talking about until I am here to let you educate us every so hard coming here. Every Sunday to enlighten these people. It's a somebody has to do. It's the burden falling on you. Crush your dreams tell you that what you thought was beautiful and cute. It's actually something nefarious and dark. But that's what we have here does baby Yoda now to know baby. Yoda you have to understand. Baby Yoda in thing about baby. Yoda's it is like first of all. It's not Yoda as we all know. You know. It just looks like Iota I. Of course it's not iota iota has been long dead. You know it was remember remember was was empire strikes back where he was trying to try to get those last words out luke again wjr disappointment such you. Are they look. Like I'm not the lead me cliffhanger like this I thought this just in dominate this. You know the reason why we call call him baby. IOTA is because there's no name for his species Yoda's species maybe it's call iota does Yoda's yeah you know but this the species has been as far as a whole species has been somewhat of a mystery. Still you know we've seen concept art of a younger older or younger a younger Yoda out there. We've seen we've read stories we've seen you know yoga damage. Come on man. You could do boy. But you'd be surprised. Triple Edison back this up until letters but You know you've you've seen Yoda younger iota. Who doesn't even look that much young and you know do some bad shit in the in the prequels but as far as Yoda you know really knows goethe is but since we don't know the species all we can do is call the something that looks like him i Iota Baby Yoda This is where we're getting some good. Things hangs about baby yoga because with with baby yoga. The great thing about baby. Yoda is that It's a nice way to still still bring in nostalgia for the series while expanding the story at the same time you know when he brought baby Yoda and it. It could have felt real cheap and I was. I was so much afraid that it would be. But you know that's the cool thing about this show is that they're bringing in some of the elements that we really haven't haven't had a chance to explore before Yoda's species is one of them and so we're getting a chance to explore these creatures and this race that we didn't really know that much what about you know. I'm giving give some credit here now have you. Have you been like in the show. But I'm looking at quite a bit. Yeah like you said. It's it you watching watching it. Is that feeling of watching the original series of Star Wars right matter of fact it's like watching a new hope. Yeah it takes you right back there and and bringing in the baby Yoda at the end of the first episode because I episode plays out like a Western in pretty much like all right. These are the beats gonna hit. That was the big O in the second episode was all like man. What are they going to do what? Where's it go from here? What's going to happen? Third episode was pretty much me going like I. They got no what's going to happen. Yeah it was. It was more of a formula. Wasn't bad but it was more or less. Yeah I guess that's second episode is bad asking. It is a a second episode. Is One of the reasons why I was really need love. And what they were doing with something. That kind of had doubts about it. I got to this point right now. They will play up baby. YODA's cuteness they don't you know I mean yours yours baby. Oh He's cute as fuck faulk man and they know that all you do is just sit there you know. There's there's never a moment because if you know George Lucas used to do this kind of nonsense you know they. They are movies in general they do. Dogs Yeah Yoda. Don't sit up there and do what cute dogs do movies. Where adopting just sit there and just be cute? are expressive with his is the always have to give it. Reacts like you know they never do that with with baby iota you know. They never do it then. He makes a baby baby. No it doesn't sound like little animate care. They don't ever do that baby. Yoda is bad as man because all you know all oh baby. Yoga does baby. Yoda just sits in that decision. That crib in just floats in shut. The fuck up you know. He doesn't say he don't say a word. And that is brilliant they. He has these big expressive eyes and for a little puppet which is what it is. It's almost like they're not trying to sell the toys voice. You know what you would think so because I mean look at the is right. There is a puppet looks robberies. Fuck even when he's down walking you know there's moments where he's here he's got the puppet walks. I gotTA figure okay with technology being what it is they can make this baby yo look totally real with CGI and yet yet. I bet they would test done and it was just like yeah. The more we do that the less it looks like the original iota. which was a muppet? Yeah you know when you see that in what they're doing with them You you know it's like yeah I I kind of like what's what's happening with that you know there's there was a there was only one time that that he made that he made a noise that I thought okay that now. That's justified when they when they were when they were taken him when they've taken him away and he and he said he's talk to you tried to make the most pitiful you sure. Take him away. He looked he looked at Mendel lawyer. Straighten if they like shit some good money to fuck. Why have to look at come on man? It saved his life. Hey did and I did. It did baby. Yoda's actually a good role role model for the kids out there. You know because the parents should be telling the kiss you similar. You ought to be like him. Shut the fuck. Just sit there you say my life when you have to. Otherwise just be quiet. Kids parents to tell the kids you know what just shut the fuck up. Sit there and look cute baby. You're going Kinda cool adventus juice. Because he doesn't bother the fucking man to Laurie. If you sets the fuck up you know why did he come back to save him because he's because you know it baby. Maybe you'll have been crying the whole time and yet where we. He's going to use the bathroom. You know mentally take. He'll take them. Give me my money. CUT HIM UP. Shit Gimme the GISORS. I'll eat it you know it's it's all because maybe YODA still a baby. Turns three yeah whole different ballgame. Young men lured coming in. What are you doing actually clean up your room fuck? You're not my real dad right pitch. It asked you to you motherfucker. She wants I can tell you man you know there's a lot opportunity could've done to go in really ruined his character and they didn't But you know there's even moments where despite the cuteness of the character of the the the show still hard man. The show's Roz hell. They had the last episode. I liked the episode. I didn't like it as much as the I still liked it. But I'll really liked that last episode and the reason that last episode is because despite having a baby Yoda Baby Iota actually the man lorrimore violent. Well it gives us something to fight for baby. YODA's calls a lot of that. Was My jaw dropped when the man. Laurie Cook the Storm Trooper in his outfit he turned into an INSTA- pile up in the do screaming all like Holy Shit. It's a rough rough job. Yeah he was he was the trooper. Yeah yeah he was shaking stormtroopers. I was like wow. Wow this you know despite despite was going on the even the even little baby I want in on some of this. Remember this hour of the show is because I got Kinda mad I was like man that that that space Ronald upstate wasn't bothering anybody. She was trying to protect her age. And everything and and she's about to get the jump on the mend learning. Yoda pulled for shit even around like this ain't fair. Yeah Man No it's what you have going on here. What invite people have been comparing it to? This is so far even though you have this cute little creature and his hardcore diner lot people said you have some lone wolf and cub thing going on with this. And that's that's that's been brilliantly worked into the themes star wars So people now saying well you know you think nothing but good things. What's your problem? You know Y Y Isaac by. Why don't you trust baby Yo? You had nothing but nice things to say about him and tell you that the worried about is that from the very very beginning from from from the moment they showed them in even though I was in love with him just like anybody else. You still can't help feel that this is is a very calculated marketing move by Disney to sell a bunch of toys. Yes however and I know you you you just kicking his point off. But I've been looking at a lot of black Friday ads and the baby. Yoga is not up there at Christmas. Give yet they already like when you want to sell so for Christmas you out now all the reports that they're already saying he's come. It's do you honestly believe Disney's going to sit on this motherfucker here. I don't know which is why I don't understand. Like what are they waiting on it waiting for the series to to go so far or they were like wait. We gotta give people a chance to to get Disney plus and see the episodes so we can get them out there there. That's see that's a great point and that's what has me worried it's like a you're gonNA get us to the point where we are really enjoying this and then Bam you just don't just dump marketing on us with with this whole thing with plus. She's and legos dolls. You know I decide. Are we going like at this moment where we really love baby baby oldest cool aim bother no but we get sick of him at the same time as keep saying him like. I said I don't know what's under that skirt all right. So the men Lawrence went eight episodes. Total title yes so whatever they going to do is pretty much worked out already. I know and that's something that bothers me because I I mean I'm not bothers me. It just makes me a little bit on guard. Now I would say certainly makes me worry about future projects where they'll start crowbar and baby. Yoda into everything see. That's that's I'm I'm worried about that and I'm worried about it with this. I mean we got five more episodes with three in yeah and they introduced to right off the bat so now which which is what they had to do. But you know I'm just wondering. Is it going to get to a point. Where Baby Yoda's going to be so adept right right now? Feels those natural where they have them in the show but it's going to be some point where he just GonNa start to feel like okay. Now you really are just kinda putting a whole lot of iota in here baby Odeon here because you were trying to sell. It's going to start to feel like okay. It's a cool show but now starting to feel like a commercial for this little thing to Well how do you feel about the way. They handled baby groups. It's because there was some selling of it but not as much as you would have thought just a great point too because you know baby grew it even that kind a bother me just a little bit is like all right you know because they re it wasn't like people just say I want a group like they knew it and they push those toys right right right but then we see the next movie be. He's already teenager group not cute. It's just funny. And they didn't keep milk and baby group and you know what they they didn't But they got the money. And that's the thing that you know. It could be the same same thing with this but you know something baby grew fast. Yeah this motherfucker fifty years you know. He's still a baby. Got Plenty the I got plenty of time to even the men Lord. God Damn you're fifty. Yeah it's it's it's it's something on. I don't know because also guardians of the galaxy was very comical. You know and that's one of the things that we talked talked about with the mandatory and the men and Lauren will everyone's logging the men Lori and this is b because going back to its grittier roots Star Wars. So that's you know I. I don't mind marketing things you know. I know what Disney is. I don't know what the deal is. The game was yeah. I know what the game is there like. I said that to pimp out children. You know this get them money. I know what they're doing but this is just one way by just come on. Let's let's just get this one thing right right here. Sure and so I. I really hope that this I'm not saying they will but I just hope baby yield. It doesn't doesn't interfere with something that has already had a great start you know and so far is working just concern a month but the big concern is something that they kind of hinted at at the end of the last episode are near the end the last episode and VAT is how baby iota were probably tie into. The prequels equals now. I'm not saying this because I hate the prequels which I do and I'm not look. I'm tired of kids talking about okay. boomer he's just old. Oh you did with. That movie was for the kids. Like all right you know I. It's your thing is still a piece of shit. One day you will grow up and you'll be wise and you will see for yourself and I was is already articles coming out with. What was I thinking when I watched this movie? You know episode one especially people coming around like yeah and I still watching. I hate myself what you're still watch. Some people say I'll watch because of nostalgia for my childhood and I hate myself for even video of George Lucas out. There were these watching Genera and he's just kind of like how. How do I fix this people? Kinda looking like man look is done. Yeah Yeah let me see and how to fix this year. Have my lying seen this reggae. It's a quota. I may have gone a bit far. Place a May have gone a bit. Yeah let me Martin Martin. Let me see if I can find this for you because I saw it the other days old. It's old is back with the mood was out is I. Think it's a a May may have gone the I type it. I may have in Google macos in the risk gone. Oh here it is yet this video George Lucas man from episode one. He's looking at it and you could tell like at that Mommy's like my God. He's like yeah he looks he's looking at once and he's saying yeah. I may have gone too far the other people. Are you fucking tell him you. Can I love this. You know Georgia's Great. It just seems like a lot of seeds. It's bold in terms of Turkey and people around but I may have to form a few places for them to be some races not as much much in love with all of which the Asian stereotype or the black Jewish stereotype. It's tough can we put more bounce jar jar. Can He shuck our job a little bit more than we could do that. The goal tooth building. Sure yeah the prequels man. I love most most people will tell you that. Yeah it's it's a failure just because the people even have doubts over now you know it's it's just not working and so a lot of people even like to go back to it but it's done it exists it's already apart cannon. There's nothing we can do about it and they have worked into some of the other stories that we've enjoyed later on and it's fine you know there's certain things they either. It's okay or are they. I just small enough to disregard like far as where to go to Nebi hit as a saga Tara and in rogue one you know he was put into the clone wars and people say those claws has gone into kind of Rick. Con- Some of the worst things about The prequels they've actually gone and taken characters and made them better and Okay Don and things you know. Clone wars has done a lot of that Sometimes you know the gone too far like Darth Maul was was great and clone wars so they tried to do a cameo of him darth Maul is solo which was most people who the fuck is out that I do you know cut in half walking around yes so another but again is something that is at the end of the movie we can leave it alone whenever man and then there's been some things that people have said all right. I never thought I'd say this about something from the prequels goes on. I'm actually looking forward to it. obi-wan-kenobi man is getting his own series right on Disney plus. And they're saying like this is the kind of adventures when he was kind of an outlaw out there when he you have to be kind of lay low from appetite and Darth vader. Oh what's that. Yeah yeah he's kind of laying low because I mean I guess his name is out there. People know who he is and he's kind of an he's and he's living his that point after the empire where shit is crazy and he's Kinda has to figure out what to do with himself and he's laying low because of the jet order order or the Empire to kill. The jet is still people out there that want to do it. That's one of the reasons why you they want. They probably want baby yoga. This sounds like another western Sir. Yeah it probably is going to be some type but who knows but what I'm leading up to is that they hinted at something at the end of a near the end of the last episode episode. Three of the Mandolin and hasn't been confirmed yet anything but I hope it's not what people are thinking. What is it what it is? They had baby Yoda strapped to a table and it looks like they were extracting something from the thing that they might be extracting from him is something the net people will tell. You should never be uttered ever again. In the star. Wars Universe victorians microscopic life for resides looping. Sounds even fucking stupid. It's lawry's putting gatorade glorious. They there's been it might not be but but this is that that that they might that they might have been trying to extract from little little baby. Yoda's body might have been middle chlorine because he's A threat to the new the new empire. That's coming on the New Orleans coming up because you know that we don't want any jet is around. Yeah Yeah so you're not the full we don't WanNa think force sensitive around now so that's the kind of kind of worries me with iota. Those kind of bringing in our baby yoga. Whatever he is she is is like okay? We might be seeing the things that we said. We didn't want to see what this we know. They're going to market it but we didn't want all the cute marketing that went on. You know that was there simply to sell toys but if they can bring back the medical orioles but make it work. That's a win win and you know what that is true if they do that. I'm so scared of them. Just coming in messing that up because I was so oh stupid but you know what they can come in and kind of do something with it in better hands than maybe like we said the going in and erect a lot of things and making them better now and that could could be a two. I'M GONNA give it a chance so I'm not complaining. I'm just saying you know this whole thing with baby. Yoga could delete some of the things that we were fearing that we thought we would not see in the mandal oriented. Oy and I'm willing to just kind of let it all slide and trust what they're doing because we've got five episodes with three and we're joined it. Yeah let's let's let's hope for the best. Hopefully we can ride this out. Get to that eighth episode and everything's Cool. Yeah Yeah do from there who knows I is it the today. We'll see we'll see I trust what they're doing. Yeah done well so far. So we'll see it's a the mandatory and takes place after return the Jeddah after return the Jeddah alright but wants series would take place. I think it's before four new hope would have to write because he's younger than yeah. I think so. Yeah he's a what yeah you know Yeah because it would be after after after after Anikin Scott also after revenge and what is it ordered or sixty six or whatever it is they call it to kill the Jedi. Obi One being an outlaw. Pretty much Something that the the empire is empires out there looking for Jeddah is out there trying to me. Just like the old Kung Fu show where he's going from town to town just trying to work odd jobs obstacle money but his one posters everywhere. He's GonNa whip out the lightsaber every so often. Some families getting bullied by their local establishment. He's Whitemore and he'll be out he'll be just fine. Trust me. I'm a white John. I mean man they come here anyway let me see I got his own talk. Made Me Horny. Don't like yourself out. Don't just yeah. They'll be beaten on that wind up. Eating window does wave one just crashed through wondering. Let's see let's go over here and talk to chat chat thinks about this. They'll play no no fuck they no. Yeah I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the OB one series. I'm sorry because I told you before as after turning Janet and alternative is after episode three or whatever after the kill all the. He's on the run. So let's see. Yeah I'm looking forward to one show all right. Let's let's go from go from nerdy fan boy. Talk to talk about some politics just real quick and no we're not GONNA get into. I'm going to get into a big day. WE'RE NOT GONNA get into the United thing would talking trash about one person. One party one political figure in orange in the country going to say anything. Of course we're talking about trump. Getting in fact I am roll up. This is a General Chop Donald Trump of course and he's in the middle of impeachment hearings hearings and things being said about these hearings and so many things said about trump himself. He's nervous at one point. Another point people are saying that. Oh you know. Oh he doesn't care about this actually. He's loving this is his his. His cult is actually go to back them up and support him even stronger now that that he's been impeached. They're trying to impeach him because they want to defend him so much You know and people have been asking me people saying They've come up to me and saying hey human Like last night company came up. Hey you've been keeping up with the impeachment here is Oh man you gotta watch that. And I'm my Hell No. Yeah she's Bari. People ask me. They're like they're watching. Game of thrones. I listen unsighting sometimes I catch the highlights. I don't think I'm not trying 'cause I this. They they run out on. NPR All ding initials on NPR. That I liked when I cut it on his own and just listen. I'm just Kinda like all right. y'All need to wrap up for this. So man this whole thing me and my wife. I've got into a big fight over it because I like waking up in. PR GETS BACK. That's my alarm. It gets me pulls me out of sleep back into the world. Listen to. I'm getting ready. and She just got sick of hearing she's like I can't I can't take this. I was like no I need this. I can't take this shit and go off like I want to listen but I can't listen to this and you at the same time eventually cannot be going I get a couple of days. I won't listen and I was like you. It's Kinda Nice not having this long way away. I'M GONNA listen to some dumb shit. Talk Radio Telling Badejo Eh Zoo to celebrity gossip. Kindness Intelligence Shit kindle just was hanging off complete I listen I try to be a smart brother. I think these these these impeachment hearings. I know some people say Armenians exciting and then it every now and then they'll get into something good because I 'cause they'll get somebody who's a they'll get real aggressive somebody to talk and I've heard somebody got. Can I finish my answer. Would you say that. Yes what you said that I can i. Can I get an answer. I heard like somebody overseeing we we let them talk You know sometimes it gets like a courtroom drama. Yeah but You don't know about what's happening here so you know we've had A. We've had this. This whole thing started and let me see. Let me go here. Make sure I got a picture up here So this whole thing started when it. It is alleged that when trump made some calls to the Ukraine president. He's a You know I wanNA talk until you man you know that Biden boys over there right. Mike Hunt Biden. He's over there doing shit right. I mean it ain't really. It's not really a legal thing I ask you to just check up on them Keno see that was going on. I got this aid package that we supposed to give you. If you could do me a favor I could get that over to you. Yeah Yeah exactly so if you investigate the gate people. I don't like what it is. That Hunter Biden. It's Joe Biden's son isn't he was involved with some Ukrainian gas company over. There has something to do with the they're not the staff but it was it was somebody who was part of their what do you would you call. I would like you have not staff because other people that work there but the heads that all get together the board erectus. Jesus Christ God Damn Damn boy director come in but I was like. You're not giving me enough. I don't know you probably knew more hell. You can't read you. Fuck you know. Board directors the board directors That that they feel like they want to buy it was played a part and getting rid of somebody. That boy was suppo- supposedly corrupt anyway. Yeah people want to get rid of it was again. There's not political thing it. It was already said that we didn't like to do. He was already doing some dirt and they WANNA get rid of them but now the debate is was is the right to have to ask for a favor that in that president of another country where favorite is investigate a political opponent. Right right especially. When you're you know you withholding money that you're supposed to give them and yes it's extortionate that point and I do I do try to catch the highlights delights of of Of this of of the impeachment process in in when I'm when when I'm looking at it because a lot of people well when they when they look at the impeachment process they have some misunderstandings I to have some. I have some misunderstandings Danone's about the about the whole thing. You know how this works you know a like last night last night. I thought that I thought that there were certain. I've I've been talking for a while. I was like what is so what happens with the impeachment process. What is the What is the end goal for for somebody? That's becoming impeach because is where did the peaches come in. I like the way you just like God. Damn Dan even. That's not even even appoint Tony Ready to pick up the head until she laughed. I'm like the Dimitrius. Anybody like play. Man I can't help you uh-huh but immediately ain't good man. That's the Kinda shit the the dogs are talking. Damn I WANNA help you. But that's six years looking at what the fuck was using was. Apparently you took you took all of the maturity. Let's talk about Doodoo Saving his for the trump discussion. You hit the fucking they get out of my house. Jesus fuck you try to mature conversation but when the pieces come from the Buddhist got me Oh anyway away even Taylor like what the Fuck Mar.. Wow Marnie did pull let peach. Let me see here. But the impeachment process man. So what happens with it when when when when you try to try to get somebody impeached. But it doesn't remove them from office and it doesn't keep them from going going for a second term. So what are we doing this for so today. What I did was put out in some countries where you competed and I'll tell you like impeachment music at the fuck out and then you're GonNa win impeach you're gone but with With this process here in America it is from what I understand being that it's not criminal our criminal case you don't. They're not pulled out so you know. I went today and ask facebook book I said Oh no yeah went in and and I said Hey. I don't understand the process these things I know. Can you fill in the blanks. Surprisingly they didn't go crazy easy surprised when they did get a grasp of what was happening and they filled in just a few blocks. I WanNa thank you facebook for helping us out with that. An autopsy is out there that helped out with that As I said you know one of the things that they run the risk with special of the Democrats who who are heading heading up this this. This impeachment investigation process is that they run the risk of actually making trump stronger for one as I say it it will make make his base his cult. Whatever you want his supporters? Whatever you WANNA call it? It'll make them more defensive and make them support him more and if we can't see what happened happen at the end of the process where we don't we you know if he can't be removed. Then why are we taking up all this time and all the resources sources to do this. It could actually make the public a little more confident. I'm sorry a little bit less confident in the in the Democrats So what is the endgame with this. As I said it's not a political debate doesn't mean just ask and and trying to figure out this process in in in educating people who don't know was going on with impeachment also just in case you in the same same boat that I was so as I say first of all this is not a this is this is not a criminal case it is. It's not a legal case. This is This is this is political strictly political which means that when Dmitry up man and don't put them funny funny as the jokes and Puns GonNa play play one because I want you could tell me if I'm wrong. Okay so so this is not not again. This is not legal. This is not a criminal case of in court this is something that is strictly political and what that means is that they cannot bring the rules of court into the political arena. Here but what they're doing right now. The ultimate penalty of this process is removal from yes so nor nor does there have to be a crime. Committed here for them to even want to impeach. You just feel like we don't think you're morally fit to be in the White House are we. Just don't like you you know Bill Clinton was impeached. You know you get pulled out of office but he was impeached. In what looks what he deal with. Monica Lewinsky in the in in the Oval Office who knows where every other places kind of Freaky it was. It was nasty. You know yeah. It was Kinda Shady. Considering that he was you that he was that he was married should he. Should you should know some really had this guy in office. Marc Maron Groucho. Marx was a free man. I hear them all the time. But yeah you know what he did. yeah it was wrong but was illegal. No Kennedy. Not How many people Kennedy fucking the White House or you know that. So that was not. I was not wrong but people felt like he was not morally fit to some people not all people some people that he was not morally fit to be in the White House he lied to the investigation and then and then the criminal part of it is that they say that he committed perjury right. And so you know. The the constitution has three categories for impeachable offenses. It's treason bribery. And a high crimes and misdemeanors kind of catch all know they. The current strategy is bribery. They the Ukrainian aid package as in exchange for a quid pro quo an investigation. That can be seen as bribery but if that fails they could always try high crimes and misdemeanors because it's a catchall. Yeah but right now is still not. They're not holding a criminal. Cases are now yard like again. A legal court case is strictly political to get the guy now if impeached by Congress if he does get impeach what they can do is they can move to the Senate and at that point if the if the Senate goes through through with impeachment then at that is when trump can be removed and that was the that was one of the processes that they got Nixon on Nixon was going to probably be impeached when it got to the Senate and that is why he was removed are heated. That's why he resigned from his position position as president. Yes I have never been a quitter. Term is completed as a horrible every instinct in my. Hey Buddy but as president I must put the interests of America first and plus these motherfuckers got me. No that was really when when he was. The president has a liaison office between both houses of Congress and when the liaison offices telling him that the Senate was ready to remove him from office. It's been real but catch me my money back. uh-huh yeah so that is how they're going to get Nixon and that's what they're looking at right now off get them in the Senate but the only thing is that the Senate is that the majority ruled by the GOP. Yeah the three fifty three Republicans forty five Democrats and two independents. I think are you gotTa get twenty five at least twenty five. Republicans change that position on trump and that is the only way that trump can be removed from office. And if that's what and who knows if that is the case the at that point. Then that's when you get vice president pence to come in and be president to be president if trump is removed. It's a no no win situation. Yeah and some people even saying that well he got some dirt onto. And if that's the case if you want to try to get him to then. The process has to start all over again. So it's it's crazy to to do this so you got you got somebody coming in at the Democrats noticed where we get to the question of and I'd like to hear your response everybody's spots so so this is where we get to the question of what happens at this point. You know like you say Martin it looks like a known anybody because if pins comes in and then data somebody really. They don't like but then after that they figured like all right. We could probably work with this gal better. You know team trump is out of his goddamn mine. The looks like it's not not going to happen. If he goes to Senate that he gets removed right so at that point. What is the goal here? And I don't know it is I. I wrote some down to remind myself the easiest answer. Is They just want to fuck with trump. You know I guess I don't know are you uh-huh maybe I'm GonNa lists these things you guys telling me Some other things that you're thinking what you think about these things Maybe they hope that they can prove so much corruption on trump that maybe they can even turn turn some these Republicans around because it cannot be denied how corrupt and criminal he is are they make trump look so bad that voters lose faith. Bathe him Are they don't impeach but they do find enough shady and criminal activity on him that that could follow up in some kind of legal case when it's all done I you know. These are just some ideas that I wrote down. I don't know but I'm trying to figure out what what what's the point at this at this. Well if you look at it strategy wise it seems like Why why even bother doing this? And but they've even said Hey. We know that this could blow back on us. But what what he's done is wrong and you don't just let sweep that under the rug and act like it didn't happen. It's supposed to be consequences for this where this consequences have collateral damage and not. He cannot be allowed to just do this. And walk away from your lily and if nothing else. It'll discourage him from doing it again. Okay so there's there's that but I think that the deeper game everything you said is a consideration that is valid as possible. I think one of the deeper considerations is the fate of the Senate. Look I'm going to come out and say right now. I'm a Democrat because I'm a black person with skin in the game and I think that the Senate is the greater prize out out of all three of the chambers because unfortunately we're going to have quite a few supreme court justices drop dead within the next four years and we just heard with Beijing convert the hospital for a fever and the Senate Confirms Justices. let's say that you're Republican senator in a state like Arizona which is increasingly purple. Yeah Yeah if you vote against impeachment that could lead a bunch of people who acknowledged the rule of law to be correcting. Hey that was wrong. What he did and you support him you let him get away with that? Can turn voters against you and gives the Democrats some hope of winning the Senate back arguably I would arguably give up the Senate in exchange for the White House. If Donald Trump wins the presidency. I would prefer the democratic. That's good enough for me. So there's that political denver there's that there's that strategy right okay. What about you jet? I mean we don't have to stay on the subject long guys hit laugh said admitted to you right when I was talking about this. I can't even listen to the hearings that much because they kind of drive me. I'm not trying to boy you guys right now but I did want to put that the people who don't understand you see here impr- you guys come up with some of your own still star wars. The Secretary of the Navy Guy Fire today. Let me see Markham for trump getting out of office but I hope Democrats credits no beating him at the polls is the best way. That's absolutely correct. Marcus says that there's no chance of removal from office. But weakening him if if there are political orphan out there who used to be Republicans who used to be Democrat to find themselves like unrepresented. Anyone like if they can see if they see this process crossing this is this is disgusting and I will vote for anyone. Who isn't Donald Trump? That could be enough to get the democratic handed over the Hump. Yeah okay so that's what I was saying. That's one of things where you can make people lose confidence in him absolutely. I'm just taint his image. So bad done you have something you want to. Oh come on you can go. I can't get so long. What you're saying okay okay so does says I'm Republican and I can't stand trump's upstairs right there there you go party? There's no party for non right now so you know I So you have a Republican right there so we could again again. I'm I'm not making a political debate but that that is an example of what you're saying right there so that you have somebody who is a Republican. Even they're saying I can't do this you know and and this is not helping what's happened and you're registered in Texas well the Texas increasingly purple every time I mean Ted Cruz almost lost because he's Ted Cruz but every renown again you watch you. Watch Texas Tunnel Lil more purple every election cycle so. Yeah well I'm not trying to weigh down with the political discussions today. I'll tell you let's go to. Let's go into the big headline Lebron. James just pointed right now. Oh aw I believe this is my need your expertise to a lot in my life. You guys talked about Eric. Eric Saul L. A.. Or during the impeachment process he was doing an interview with CNN and there was a sloughed sound over the company's far. That's that's my coffee the Cup don't make that sound. Can you fart into the microphone. We'll leave this. Oh there you go yes big news today Lebron James Fart. He he was he was walking out of a building and his fans hence they were saying Lebron brought. I love you Lebron. Hey how you doing. Hey Hey tomorrow Brazil. Yeah I love you too yeah. He lives his leg. He'd he gave some visuals. He gave them the leg lifting everything huge firms. Good luck tomorrow at the game guys goes I air. We're big Fan Lonnie James. It took us. Let's be they just giggling over there you know when they drove off those guys they just got back to the bronze do we bathe in inspired me and he was awesome. You Got I. I love this man. I don't care what does lobby like. Man This is news and that yes it is I love I love it I love. It says something about celebrity man. You can't even farther with a report on your I'll find that fascinating fascinating itself but what I what else fascinating is just the the total disdain Brian for these yeah I mean I'm not saying Lebron James is an even though US ed. I'm not saying anything about Lebron at all. This is funny funny to me at this. This is not a commentary on anything is just something that happened and I think it's finding like the series talking about I love you. Lebron goes well. Thank you tomorrow at the game guys goes and we're big fans James. He did a belly move this being sarcastic. No they're not no I know they're not but they sound like they. I mean listen. I'm not even mad at the that the fans I I mean Lebron James. He's he's below by a lot of people so I mean in a way is like I don't blame these fans for like Like like a yell and I love you. I mean that's that's has to be expected as the the the fans they wrong. As far as I'm concerned Lebron doing anything wrong I mean I don't think it's cool to turnaround far on people but I like is not a commentary metairie. Hey I thought it was Kinda Fun. Here's I can tell. He was not even acknowledging them. All these thinking is let me fart before I get in the car because I do it inside. We can all be stuck with this I. I like the way he didn't even bother to just walk off the tree line and just you know. He started on his friends. He lifted alert. He followed his to rise not the same as his friends. He t farted on on that. Do that was right next to him. Either way it goes these people that help you out in the branches as I see it We the author James. You know. That's what that's what eighty year old man because you don't give a fuck anymore man. Somebody telling you I love you. Why they're feeling you could see unlike no you don't? He's a celebrity bad. That's what happens. I mean I I can't when you when you're a celebrity onto the life man you know you know what you're getting into the you know. Oh come on this is you once twitch takes off. I don't WanNa hear you on. Everyone be happy but I I would never I would be look. I could be one of the most famous people in the world and I just don't have it in me at this point in my life to B. Two B. to complain about it you know I might might say I need a break or something but I ain't gonNA complain about it. I don't even think Lebron's is complaining. That's the opposite complaint he fought and that is that is so funny to me. I think I will find it endearing because a lot of celebrities you know you try to cover that shit up. Lebron's Liceu what you see is what you could brag. It's like you know he felt that comfortable around. Yeah exactly we like this. I mean these guys would go back and tell the Frizz Lebron afforded on me really what a smell victory victory. Not that far is powerful that that loud went across the parking lot. It broke a sound bear. Gets you know I look at that. That's why says news that that it gives you more insight on his man you're saying he could jump on how she propels. I I'm not fair uh-huh I love it man. It's something about somebody who does I'm sure Bryan loves life. I'm sure he's cool and she's happy but it's a somebody who just at a moment. Just don't give a fuck and just as you know what this is. What I'm thinking about life while he cared about was not carrying that into the car? Yeah these you you know right now. The only thing I'm concerned with is getting his gas out my bunching straight don't care who sees that is confidence. That is why the news because I should be the headline Lebron confident enough to fight on fast. I love this I love is about to tell you. There's there are moments in life where you know that you are. Actually those guys can actually say you know what I'm more intimate with Lebron James then a lot of people if you can find in front of somebody I mean given give him the lake you know a lot of people just get the accidental for you. Put legos down like this is for you. It's very intentional. It's very intentional. It is very intimate. If you can find somebody that is. That is a closeness. That is a confidence that a lot of people. Just don't have these guys. They probably going to be more more it close to Lebron James in some some of the people he's actually worked with James it also finding some far they just so hard they need room. You just got a movie league wide. I was a farts. I'm I'm a kid man. I mean my wife Never. He is me use the bathroom. She's probably never far in front of me. But I but I find farts funniest fuck man out because always complain about him in movies Lazy Writing. Yeah but in real life I get mad at people who fought in front of me. Someday I might come knows walk. I'm Dan what's wrong with you but title Nice Voice and I'm GonNa be like that's plenty. That's alert again. I'm here this this dude. He was a look at me. Like I'm crazy. It was when we were access television. I remember telling Janette Marino about this because she said she asked me like. I was thinking about something. I'm just laughing. She's like. We laughed about sign all the crazy. But I'm thinking about what happened yesterday or is it access television. I was talking to his old guy. Not just what I'm saying. Oh Do fart art talking to this old guy who was a during the show up there and you know he was the old black guy he was telling me about. Hey you know youngsters today in one. Give me the best because like I'm good good to see. You guys appeared denise things you know young black dude like yourself out there trying to make some being creative and whatnot and then I was just got Qui- GimMe Gimme a speech. goosing thing out here doing some creative trying to make some and he just leaned back on on a rail and just brace himself and I looked at him now he just went back to his. None of that happened. Yeah you guys. You're you're doing it and I just looked at me like like everything he just told me. Didn't apply to me more because I was stupid and I say if I do. Just you braced yourself farted in front of me like it was nothing you SPEC out to laugh. He's it was like one thing even in front of me but to like yeah like you know like like the show is going mark you down if you know what you guys doing this fantastic Gonzaga made emeals. Please give me a potato aged bags a some shit. You see so crazy man like us to this day like did that really happen and it did. But it's like wow I can't believe it all right more of the story for us to fund. We should do that more in front of people especially teams around now. Yeah especially famous Nima celebrities foreign you know I want. I want somebody to catch them by Angela. Leaves you know Angelina. Jolie she's it it'd be a it'd be a dog so we're going far just trying to find his way one hundred hundred greeny. It wouldn't be funny if if Angelina Jolie's as I I was I was. Oh well. Let's see that was going on. I was waiting to come to see what part gives up man. That's that's one of the funniest jokes in family. Got Star Wars special. Where would have you seen star wars episode one? The one I did with the with the return of the jet back and they were just Taken Peter Griffin out of carbonate and it was happening real slow at an before he jeff before he got put in Carbonite he was trying to light it when his he got frozen and so when they would release him from the carbonate he was like. Oh ooh sorry sorry. Sorry I'm the whole night in their longtime sorry a childish Shit Oh oh when do some Box Office depot. Yes from B. O.. Box Office time almost the box office with like this week week. Actually hold on one. Well I you know I haven't even looked at it but I can only guess that it's all about one movie. One particular particular movie went out there and dominated dominated and not only dominated but set. Some records records broke records. Let's go ahead and get into the movie. The movie showed us. Didn't we didn't get that movie. A decent review a decent review. We just did it. They seem to be king jokes like that. That was embarrassed billions. You may be about the peach joke about farts and Doodoo for Doodoo. One time in Mafia bar head head context. There was a story. Look and Austin No. Don't you dare to out there. I'm mad at each one. Little Line offer twenty minutes no Martin whole segment of the show story some dude farting in the news okay. You didn't have to do what you did. Monica just reported life. Okay you broke down like you destroy. I think you'd be a little extra. No I'm not sir. Still mad at me. How dare you know how dare you Sir My job where the Pizza Hut pizzas? They right there okay. Laugh to yes. Thank you the guy he knows. What's Funny Daniels fucking drink? Jeez this fuck politics and nerds Schick. Jesus you get into the board look fuck. They looked Brighi back on Monday. So some time I love it I gotta bringing in for something so them on to win them I I missed I missed Danya me too much. You don't sound like I miss you town. Oh you took a Oh gee you ruby yourself. One time yeah years ago you got to sleep on the bed and everything over there. It'd be there for twenty minutes. I'm coming back home him. It was Adrian. I was like I got a headache. You gotTA anytime anything. He's he's a he's like he's like. Yeah I got this and son had dropped so his darkened room and I didn't really look at it and I took it and then I'll know I'm just kind of like was who was in that. Thank you gave me the title Tylenol. PM What's it GonNa you just knock out anyway. Yeah young man you want to lay down the little choice. Yeah we remember eight or nine we talked to you in the hell was okay. See here are Ray. Let's going into the box office. Real quick gone out of here. Oh trying trying to see it. Yes I do top box office from this weekend and just because in the top five doesn't mean on top as we have seen the past has few weeks but this week might be different. Mr Thomas What is the number five movie Sir? I'm not sure because it's been a little bit of jockeying back and forth but last time I checked it was is midway Roseau seventy in threes. So that's a photograph of forty five million and that's one hundred million dollar budget which in England reach fifty nine dropped dropped forty five percent. Let me actually put my nose. Radio problem. Sure with some overseas money and it's a wonder because it wasn't doing all that great the American history movie to have. Yeah I give a fuck about our history let me see what actually i. It's it's doing well in China is it because it gives the Japanese the enemy okay. Well nobody cares about this movie including Kevin Keane who gives me the information he said. I AIN'T GONNA report put on this though. Okay so you know that made a little bit more money in angle. Make Oliver's money-back still the fact that has been there for three weeks. I seen this movie. I would not have expected that. NBS number five and we got these big movies coming up. It's not going to be around next week Thanksgiving weekend. It's going to be a less. You get some older audiences insist come in and maybe are the ones that want to see. It does getting together people like all right. What can I take my parents to see? Yeah yeah so maybe it might have a little life left and over the Thanksgiving holiday saying grandma to see movies to Grandpa like to see movies so I take them to go see that which takes us to our number four movie Sir. Twenty One bridges twenty one but it was like the same thing in a way. The man saw no marketing for this movie at all until the last minute. This got also a B- Cinema score coming in out with the audience who saw this movie and on rotten tomatoes. That thank you got. What was it like fifty two percent or something like that so it wasn't even it wasn't even a been critically It was it wasn't even a that much of a critical success of being creek recommended to people in the the audience for this And see here. It was mostly male twenty five percent of old. I mean twenty five years old or older Internationally Ashley Bryan two point seventy million dollars. You know they could've sold this movie. Yeah you know what they are sold if okay If they'd actually pushed at the Russo brothers worked from the makers of benches interesting game. They could've sold this because I think they produce this or something. That's what had me wanting to see it but I don't know people that have a lot of confidence with this at all. I mean brought in nine point who million dollars this weekend on a budget. Thirty three million slow. I don't know maybe the holidays coming up with help it out but it debuted at number four and not having a lot of word of mouth the fanfare going on about it. This is probably GonNa be something that's forgotten trailer for this. When I was going to see some of the movie and look pretty good but I I never so any marketing of it after that no months ago when these movies where it feels like they just say we don't have to do with this? Just put it out there. You know every I put it up against something you know put on the weekend with black people like they just got this to see the. Maybe maybe. Maybe they'll get the blacks audience out there but it looks. It's like this is not going to be a big deal is gonNA disappear pretty soon. Brings us to the number three moving Martin Beautiful Day in the neighborhood. I forgot this. It was at the holiday thirteen in a twenty five million dollars budget. This unlike the last movie we were talking about is getting a lot of good word of mouth critically and from audiences is out there and it's a very low budget to twenty five million dollars. That's real cheap independent movies. May that much in. This got got an ace cinema score from people coming out in. That was pretty much not a surprise to anyone. Because everyone's loving this movie because everyone loves Mr Rogers and it's just like the documentary community. This is something that just makes people feel good at it. Very much carries over from the documentary. They say that it mostly meant expectations. Did it yeah probably would have got more people i. It's one of those things where Suraj is I don't know if we hit a generation. That's not really that familiar with Mr Rogers. It's like we were you will we are we are I mean think about it. How many places do you hear? We're streaming Mr Rogers. Now right nobody nobody. Yeah true. They Stream Bob Ross and kids love it You know hearing about Mister Rogers Mister Rogers. I don't know if he's These movies probably help out because everyone who you actually giving me with Mr Rogers reminded about Mister Rogers they love it. Yeah so I don't know what it is. That's going on with Mr Rogers man that we don't hear a lot from him or whatever but you know we got a couple of movies in the movies actually did pretty well so This is something where I guess maybe releasing a close to the holidays as might have been a little bit bigger if maybe if they had pushed Tom Hanks more. And Maybe Oscar winning performance by Tom. Hanks an Oscar worthy performance by Tom. Hey you know what did you mean it is that but that that the more you say that the more people think this a mister Rogers bio-pic do I want to sit through that yet to tell everybody who see like this movie is awesome. It's not a bio-pic don't think that somebody might be like I just saw this. I I just thought yeah and you saw the documentary. I want to see him which it's not that. Yeah so good movie. Though I recommend people going to see one of my favorite movies this year was the top five. It's definitely my top ten okay. I still workout a five. You know what you need to do what you need to make a list of at least three movies. That are the best of the decade. Why because as you know because you've been asking US okay? You'll be happy doing his best of the decade because going into twenty twenty twenty so I actually thought about it because Eh a movie that you need to see the Senate to could. We couldn't go to screener. I think we were going to. La at the time is a marriage story. Yeah been here now. I think that somebody somebody even for a well. Maybe not a senescent link I don't know they said not. Only did they send a screener but this this is the movie. They sent the big package for the two big books in there yet. Coffee table books with inside of giant package. But I I watched that on Saturday. May If you haven't any kind of issues with your wife it'll make you clear that shit up real fast really yes I will make you get divorced quicker. No WanNa know. It'll make that be the last thing you WanNa do okay. Well let's like we need to see my saves money on counts. Yeah yeah that's the one. What Adam driver in scarlet Johan's Johan's? Yeah yeah no I heard is I heard very good. Yeah now that Adam driver man. I told you this for years you left him I did. I laughed no more. Yeah welcome to the church. Dr Speaking of drivers man next movie now. Of course you do pick these punts. Ah the Nash. I'd just kind of dry no passed it till you speaking drivers the Ford v Ferrari. No I got you fail to Afford Versus Harari. Weekend grossed sixteen million dollars and that's a total gross after two weeks of fifty a a four total grow after two weeks ago. Eight million dollars because this was number one last week round. Yeah that's on a budget of ninety five. This is going strong. I can see this doing well over the holidays and I think do you think is budget at least Domestically I don't know that's a tough to say but I mean I'm I'm sure but between the international tickets probably doing fine. Yeah but it's it is one of those movies that people liked to see over and over. It's very crowd pleasing. Foreign markets have brought brought in forty five million dollars for this so it has reached over one hundred hundred million dollars worldwide. One hundred three point eight. It's another thing to take your parents to see it is. This really is not. This is another one of my favorite movies this year. Very good movie. It's it's a movie. That is an Oscar worthy. I think but also Crowley's MHM very entertaining. Let's go ahead and get to. He's been weak. And now they wait to the last two months to really release all the good stuff stacking them on time. Gentlemen Mark Number One movie is week. Oh Yeah your your girls froze into frozen. Gosh told the budget is on. That is not there tell you. It doesn't matter and we made our money back. We haven't made it back yet. We will in. What time is you know? It's seriously you go to the stores toys. Jose everywhere and already internationally. This movie has made two hundred and twenty three million dollars so you have a a global debut of three hundred fifty million dollars number one in all markets where it was released China. Let me see here Career Japan Germany France Mexico Indonesia Philippines all little girls that like this show you know pretty much wherever there was a little girl. This movies don't make unless you have an all boys village worse you know. This is not going to be Nazi merchandising. Zing before like I have for this. Yeah Yeah I told you. Many put this year like Christmas decoration. This was this was out before Christmas decorations the marketing for this all toys. Those are like door Halloween even telling people dress up like frozen the movie that even out yet. Yeah this is this is a phenomenon man. No one is shocked behind a opinion holds the same. I mean it's not surprising that made as much money Because it pretty much is made for making money now. The only reason I meant it. It's not as strong as the first meal. At least in my opinion I know you felt the same way. It definitely felt. BET like an accomplishment. It's out to do. It was out there to make money. They somebody said we need another one for Christmas. Twenty nineteen yeah. Well we're still working on some ideas working my ass get it done. Yeah no matter what you gotta do. And I can't complain I mean even though it's there's a little cynical aspect to it where I feel like they they kinda rush us out the money you know. The Health Story is is Elsa and Anna a snowman in there. We're GONNA make money. Should we can put them in the movie. Having picking their nose and ask they're gonNA pay money for. Let them sing the songs. That weren't good enough for the I. Guess the scraps you did you did you have to you when did you. Did you take a kid or did you. Yeah you like it. I don't know I mean listen I just said his shit. I thought we were Afon. Kids movie the love. And what can you say. I mean it got eight-plus Cinema score coming out from families who just there to have. They were happy to see their kids. Be Having. I am not even complain about it. I know you come up with your kid and say hey what did you think of it. I thought it was no. It was one right honey not some bullshit. What did you think of? It could be years baby. Fuck at this movie Jesus. Christ I could've medal king. Standish this motherfucker me. I didn't tell you the man. This is funny. You can't say anything about it. 'cause kids love and man and it's innocent isn't enough to wear that's fine. I never expected anybody. Change your opinion because it's something I said you go people that was all we have for the top five right right. They're not what I asked him. Emails real quick and then we'll be out in the sea. We got here Martin among lead up to you to tell me that he had a crack screen. Can't see what is it Samuel Hain reform even if the impeachment is stopped cold at the Senate and trump's days office would he still be eligible to run for a second term. Yeah that's that's what threw me off. I had asked that I thought initially Cellino that he would not be able to but everybody told me yet. He's still be able to run for a second so otherwise he'd be tweeting even harder. Yeah Oh and and we have one thing here. I forgot I have not forgotten you a Alec allegorical question. I've gotten gotten you person whose name I forgot Here yeah this is a Alek miracle he wants to actually do something very quick very quick he wants to go and do a cut that bitch off done done awhile. ooh I miss that when we go on twitter. Make that more of a segment. Cut that bids Let me see if I have been communicating back over being into Mister robot. You would hope men Alec. Oh really yeah let me see here. I don't even know if I haven't anymore. More lose it. Oh Not Mr. Oh no be able to do it. I think lost my lost. That guy yelling cut that bitch off. Have you used to have it here. It used to be all the time you know what. Let me go in just put in something real quick. See if I can find it will be on our way. What did you do this weekend? Sir besides Party with you went to function around Black Journalism Award. Show you all your old girl. Terry there Yes she's on. The committee Do barbecued a lot. But you always barbecue not always. They've been some months but with the kids come home. The kids came home so I wanted to get a bunch of stuff for them. Friday was just a me catching up on TV. Screeners man. That's why couldn't you want to go to happy. I was like no I got a lot of stuff any to watch. Yeah I can do those screeners anymore. I mean they were talking about voting for movies that I'd have to watch all of them like Bob Documentaries. I just like I can't do this. I am moved out except the movies especially after the movie Friday. Oh that's right get aboard. I can't wait to tell you about. Oh I'm GonNa talk some Shit I'm gonNA run my mouth okay because this is supposed to be the one that that might attorney people around. Ah You go yard is going to have to deal with me. I'm going I am going off. I'M RE ON WON'T RAISE HELL I it's going to be. It's going to be thirty thirty minutes on me. Just just complain being as going to be thirty minutes angry. Oh come on man what are you GonNa do with those three hours. Otherwise anything else. My life barely got one on using the mother. fucking like that taking the rest of it. I need the Wednesday Wednesday. God I said Fuck it I just write down shit took a plane about wow allow. After I gave it a chance to of course I gave it a chance and even then I was just kinda like well. You know. We're off to a good start. uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh angry because NFL. I just got cock teased. I felt like like we'll start a good just to like fuck you up even more when it actually goes south like just to get your day. Just 'cause you know going in if you know this direct you don't is the kind of movies he makes. You know what you're getting into you get mad at yourself even thinking well moment that this was going to be different yes stupid once she ran off with your clothes in your money. Jesus fuck that you hang up to the bed and I want to get up and leave so bad and I said I can't. I do that I had to stay here. That's the other thing I have to be here. This is what rule I stuck to it. Sometimes you think like men you know you never think like you. Don't WanNa think harsh things. There's nothing even joking but but you think things like you know what I would never think about killing myself or anything like that but if they win that fucking a- and I had to sit there and watch the Teigen Jesus taking a birth dish it it isn't. PTSD finishing fuck you where we lost track of what I'm I'm doing everything Alec Alec Miracle Let me see Alec Miracle In my skype here Alek miracle he wanted to do a EH crazy. Oh Hey corn syrup you remember remember. This time I was about to call you bitch I hang up on you fucking with me. He won't play the Games speaking of playing games. They WANNA play. Cut that bitch which we're GONNA play. You know what what I usually use to do with. CUT THAT BITCH OFF. Get people two minutes to give a review because really kind of all you need it. Because if they didn't make it within two minutes in my mail come out and tell them that no. Don't I'll down this hour now. A lot of people are wise to the game. They knew that I gotta be ready to minutes. I didn't get a chance to actually pull that up Alex is actually very good at it so I don't think Alex is going to have any problems or give me a chance to pull up Mr Cut. THEIR BITCH OFF ALEX. Where'd you go? Oh there you are right here I know you are just fucking. Hey Alec the movie that you're going to talk about about today. Do a quick review for is what knives out now Martin. I actually saw knives out and we're going to review that this Wednesday. Yeah but I'm curious to see I haven't talked to anybody about it. I haven't even seen reviews for the movie. I leaving each other where he talked about Alex. You're going to be my first official review for the moving and and we go ahead and just in case Alex just in case Alex Alex Alex just in case just in case you slipping and just in case you a little rusty and can't do view into two minutes like you have done before I'm GonNa pull up the Stopwatch I'm on a time you and let me see what I I want to go ahead and actually play the trailer for people now. That said we saw knives out this past week. And that is the new movie from Ryan. Johnson Ron Johnson. He fucked up with Star Wars. So you know. I'm probably going to go back to back to doing what I know. You Know Writing Complex mysteries with interesting characters and fun plotlines a twist and turns at every moment you know. He's done something that he's done. And and most of his work even star wars habit prison space. The twist. That's crazy I've never seen it. I've never WANNA guess that. Would let's go and take a look at the trailer for timeout knives out. Yeah which is pretty much. As even Ron Johnson disgust he said is an old fashioned. Who done it? I'm detected Elliott this trooper Wachner we just want to ask questions we understand none of his demise. The family gathered to celebrate your father's eighty fifth birthday. It was the party. Pre My dad's death was great. Ladies and gentlemen I would like to the you all stayed until the investigation is completed. What career ask why? That's something changed so no it hasn't changed or no. We can't ask bill. I think one of his famous quotes. Is that what you're suggesting. Question to one another up your ass. Oh very nice back. Various Shit Shit. Smile definitely each so. Let's like a lot of fun but hey I'm I'm not here to say oh it's right here nicer man by the way one. Yes one of the is from the headline Line Martin. All You look Nice are right Alec. I am setting a stage up for you to go three two one now. This is one of the most entertaining movies I've seen this year It brings me back to the the hitchcock days of the WHO done it. Sir I gotta say This movie was shocked. You might say Had A lot of running gags that we're just constantly funny and the characters I liked the first but the kind of assholes But the production got production design greats like there's something to look at almost every frame of the movie and it was just a clever witty film and and I gotTa say It's a low better than sex. That's the full price better than sex. Yes that's A. Yeah that's that. Would you say full price. No better than sex. But it's like a low budget and sex. That's not a thing that's that's not a that's not a that's not a thing. Yeah Alex is what it is now. No it explained to me how you came across this so like a movie. I WANNA GIVE DOC review cut. They did all alright. Low better than sex. The sex wasn't great but his all. Right okay all right I get ya man. Yeah well do we agree with Alec. Michael here sounds like we don't already cause real rating. No but you know what and Georgia review sound like. You're highly recommended people at their. We'll see how we feel. Will if we feel the same way later this week. Alex how you doing man. I'm getting better looking for a new job. I mean eh stressing me and now. He's working six in the morning to work in a freezer. I don't blame you basically yeah. It's essence Chicago Chicago. No place called Kenosha Kenosha. That sounds worse. Isn't that where the X.. Can aware because you know. It's it's nowhere. Ouch don't make me do food for you together. I would not be in the same room now off your drink. Royal Drink. All right Allie. That was a good one. Come on fuck out here Outta Outta here within proud of to a good one. You don't get to say that all right. Let's get on Mattia enough. Oh make sure. I'm not missing emails from anybody. It will be gone. They got nothing to say gene wants no is the FAQ coming. I was going to put that up early but I want to make sure that I had the perks on site right. The the tears that we're doing on double toasted but yeah this is e the last Sunday service that will be done in on at least in this on this player for the foreseeable future `but move onto twitch twitch is going to be December I am Looking forward to a man. See what happens. See what happens so if I want to dial into this new show I get the twitch APP. You can't get the tweet chat. Get the twitch APP. You can go to a channel just type into double toasted. He'll come right up. And you can still watch on double toasted dot com so like I said nothing really is changing all that much I will admit to you and maybe something I'm used to. Our player has problems and I think twitter is going to be more stable but I think I play. I'm not to figure out a way to to actually make it full screen. Well you can do it yourself. You know our player was was customized to to kind of fit on the page very nice way this twitches Naga look as Nice. Because an embedded player unless we do some development to make it fit better than honestly. It's not worth it because you are you going to do is going to make a full screen anyway. So Oh but that'll be the only thing that's A. I think I'm not liking but I've been that shouldn't be that big of a of an adjustment for you guys so we're looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to it. At least Jason Right on. Yeah what about you scared a little bit a little bit. I ain't lying all this could just fail. I mean all of it's done at the pack up and go to Turkey man. You love saying that. No I don't give with Turkey and I know you mobile like what we can do right. Just go to Turkey Stinky people due to his before leaving one. I'm going to tell you what's that you've heard of did you. Do you remember Sandra Sex. DWARF SEX DWARF Yes. No I heard the song this weekend and I used to love us on as a key. Here Yeah Fuck. I'm not gonNA play. If we go we'll be like she'll be like when it's uh-huh the whole show this my favorite position really really how you GONNA be able to go out. Would you took come here. This real quick able to hang on medication now. It isn't are you. Are you ready to go. Are you sure you're ready to go out with us. Yeah I'm ready. Let's that medication. Looks like he's hitting you heart. PM ALCOHOL IS NOT GONNA help well. Let's see what happens. Cut An ambulance right the stomach right now. Oh I'm allergic to cats. I was worried about your cats. So I take an allergy pill too so I think I got the allergy and they are the PM so it's the whole situation. Yeah that's the only upper. What's seeking uh-huh Tequila the only upper the only liquor? That's an upper. You didn't know that I don't believe that okay. Would you like to make sure I'll I'll watch. Yes you can google. It is to kill an upper right. Now it'll say she's at our house. Took some some shit the my friends. I'm Michelle I mean. uh-huh crystal. Light is is Tequila upper. It definitely is. It's the only liquor that is a type of light. That is his Keila. I WANNA see on this. No Okay Casino Right. But that's not. Why are you ready for this? All this is knowledge Albert Guy it is a hundred percent number. I'll I'll do the DOC. Fuck I can't let me look it up. y'All people don't know I'll look it up. I'm looking out for. You is Tequila and upper. Oh fuck go ahead what were you saying. All spheres ethanol. It's a depressant your menas. How about this Tequila has one last thing supposedly going for it? Unlike every other alcohol it said to be an upper. Not a Downer like all spirits. Tequila is uh-huh yeah. I'm just confused. How can I be wrong in right at the same time to be an upper however yes I like on the people that the article that she's reading from everything you know about the Quila is wrong? This is stew the Nikki. That's extra rough. I love Danya. I miss you guys instill Oh you know what thank you. Put that in there gene gene. I'm going to take out to the to the to the to the to the the musical stylings of sex dwarf. Oh God let me see if ringer sex dwarf is a eight new wave song. I used to love song man sex off Sago Song right there. Oh yeah that one. I didn't say that soft sail doing man. I mean we had a lot the people here. We had fluent. Well I don't know I Allan. Hey congratulations movie man. Yeah well with it. What can we see the movie next? Nobody wants to talk of okay. All right I really. Hey I'm gonna I'm GonNa see if you remember this. Oh Jesus I was listening to mad trying to say. She gave me home at last night at the. Let me see here. It is sir the waves. Go with this. I don't have to let me seats. MARTIRES headlines it go ahead. I'm going all over. The Place de spoke to the old dashboard of your life. You can try the peanut butter with its own. Have you heard cocaine and relax. It might be mm-hmm Cooman sold. Do you like it okay. Cool cheap funeral is Casey C.. Gino DOT COM emails. GotTa Questions Comments Complement Infant Vice Show. They went back. Once you sell. You want to be probably puts information. depres households twenty s graham facebook place property the dime five minutes. Please go KOMO's five too busy out there at a sex with doors Martin Bobby Twitter instagram undestroyed Cartels Elsa joined the group of football. Join US back to me. Oh no back to all these cool man's at Jimbo come. Let us know which plans for Austin. Oh going to be busy doing head dorset high art everybody that is it good night. Good morning good evening. You'll get some slow so wherever you're listening to or watching this dip. By as a nice out the goal well controlled. It happened my listeners. I ever it's like. Oh God the spirit of run this by you on you. You can't bring me all the things I need to thank it tell you. I hope they protest.

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