6 Episode results for "Grayson Greiner"

Detroit Tigers 2019 Preview with Brandon Day of Bless You Boys

Painting Corners Podcast

1:04:44 hr | 2 years ago

Detroit Tigers 2019 Preview with Brandon Day of Bless You Boys

"Brennan is with me to talk about each tires today. We are going to discuss everything every position every possibility. And you know, just kind of what this team has in store for twenty eighteen and beyond hope you enjoy it. And enjoy the upset. Welcome. To painting corners, your weekly Bod gas or all things baseball. Now. Here are your host Austin Hartsfield, and Dave Witkowski. We're gonna start at the catcher position. Definitely not Grayson Grigny is definitely Grayson Greiner. What I saw an article in bless you boys that said that Ron Gardenhire in December said they would probably be the Sar starter kinda give me the profile on him. And what the future is like behind him. And is there hope for the catching position in the future? Yeah. I mean, I think overall there is some hope for the catching position Grayson Greiner probably represents like a future backup though. I don't even remember exactly what round gracing Greiner or or as we like to call third. Sorry. I got it in front of you. Oh, yeah. Gray song Greiner was let's take it in. So. Yeah. You know, he was never really looked at like the guy who was going to come up and be necessarily starting catcher. And didn't really, you know profile like that in the upper minors. You know, he can hit a bit. You know, he looked like your prototypical. This guy is gonna get overpowered by major league pitching. But probably can can be serviceable and is pretty decent defensively. So there's not a whole lot to be excited about. And I think a lot of us were a little bit surprised that the Tigers seem kind of dead set on giving them the job this year. But most of us really really had come to just just loathe having James McCann as our starting catcher for for many reasons. And so everyone was kind of okay moving on. But but yet, you know, Greiner, really. Probably should be a backup to the air. Incumbent who is going to be Jake Rogers who the Tigers got back from the Astros in the Justin Verlander deal in between those two places. The Tigers have kind of stockpiled a lot of guys who are twenty nine to thirty one or a little older. You know, they've got John Hicks who has never really been a starting player in the major leagues, but can can at least fake it behind the plate. And as a decent bet for a catcher, and they picked up like catcher Sanchez and Bobby Wilson, you know, big time fans of the sport. Will remember those guys because they've you know, they've been around quite a bit. Neither one of them is really a major league caliber catcher at this point. But the Tigers did get those two guys for depth. And so potentially, you know, one of those to come up and kinda spell things if Hicks just really can't get the job done behind the plate. But. Yeah. Overall in that that's kind of a bleak picture, and we're all really waiting for for Jake riders who, you know, baseball prospectus has their, you know. Basically their values that they would you you know, and their statistics that they would do for the major league level. They haven't for the minor leagues. And Jake Rogers was like six war player last year at Erie at the AA level and most and most of that is defense, you know, just about everybody. I've talked to will tell you the Jake Rogers is the best catcher the desk catcher in the entire minor leagues right now. And so the tires do have that coming the questions just kind of revolve around like is he going to have enough bat, and he's kinda got like this high leg kick. He looks a little bit like Mike Napoli at the plate. He's kind of you know, kind of take some hacks and has a distinct uppercut swing, and you know, the Tigers being the organization that they are. They don't like uppercut swing. Whereas those of us who are watching, you know, the way Dr lion is teaching hitting, and you know, what's been going on with the launch angle or the plane matching swing and all that kind of stuff are kind of like, you know, don't mess with him too bad. You know, he came out at Erie last year fell on his face for two months. More. For for kind of Bab reasons. Really? There wasn't a whole lot to explain it. He was striking out too much, but he got it together. And I think he posted almost an eight hundred or a little above Opie s you know, the the last three months of the season hit seventeen home runs sprayed home runs all over the outfield to all fields. And actually, I think is walk rate was like eleven or twelve percent. So you know to us that kind of looks like all, right? This might be another like Alex villa type hitter. Like a guy who who walks and hits for power, but will always strike out a lot and not know not put together, very good average. And that is all perfectly fine. If the defense is good as advertised and from what I've seen it is. He's a very very smooth receiver great blocker and thrower, everything we hear about like the way. He leads pitching staffs and talks to his pitchers and thinks through the approach to different hitters is all supposed to be great. So all signs point toward Jake Rogers being are starting catcher next year. And maybe they'd even I don't know if they bother like gaming him, you know, for for the forty days, or whatever they might do that. But I would expect it by next year. He's going to be up a defensive catcher that good. If those are as main attributes, you know that catcher, you know, the needs go fast. You don't really wanna waste guys defensive prime trying to you know, squeeze just that little bit more out of his bat. He'd be ready to play in the majors right now behind the plate. And it's just a question of if they can you know, if they can kind of get a little bit more of a contact approach out of him and cut down on the strike outs a little bit. And so they're going to work on that this year at AA, and he'll probably be at Toledo at the AAA level. At least by midseason. And before long should be our starter. And I would assume that eventually Grayson Greiner will be his backup. So that's not going to be a bad pairing defensively, they should be solid. Neither of them is likely to be a particularly good hitter. But that's par for the course, unless you have JT real Muto or one of the two or three actual hitting catchers in the game right now. So it's not so bad on the outlook at catcher, I actually think is pretty good. The good news. Is unlike Alex veal, his dad can't trade him eighty five times. So yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, that's that's the most savage. I know the whole thing was weird of hell he'll ahead to keep giving these quotes about it. Like how his his his wife was yelling at him other family members are like all you're taking the grandkids way the ship them over Chicago. Once he didn't like two three times. Yeah. I did. Did it twice? Can you imagine? Like, you know, you joke. Joke apparent all the time. And you're like, oh, trade you my kid, you know, trade kids with you. That's like the little side joke of the Detroit is kit like twice. Yeah. Without a second thought, you know, just delta coldly is just so. It is fun. And you know, he got a World Series ring with the cubs. So. Power to do you. Like, right, right. It a text your dad be like thanks for trading after that like, yeah. Or do you come up with your ring and just be like, oh and your face? Somebody that does have a ring what a segue Miguel Cabrera is the face of this franchise still in the middle of that, you know, extension that was given to him in twenty fourteen that started in two thousand sixteen he's healthy. Again, you know in before he got hurt last year McGaw Cabrera was actually having not megi kind of year. 'cause I think we could tell something was little ailing a little bit with him. But it's having a leader in the clubhouse having Miguel Cabrera back in healthy a red in our goal. Bless you boys today that said, you know, the bicep is healthy again and Miguel is smiling, but he's focused. What's the feel with Miguel right now? And you know, how is it having him back? Basically, if feels really good to have a back, you know, just for just for the fun of watching him play, and just, you know, kinda the looseness which with which he plays, and you know, his sort of atrium beltway, you know, type penchant for messing with people on the field and all that stuff. He's just with Justin Burley undergone. He's sort of the presence. He's. He's the guy that you know, you see all the young guys look up to he's the guy that all the fans come out to see still, and yeah, they really miss them. And last year was really just like the absolute nadir of my Tigers fandom at least since like the two thousand three debacle there. There was no there was no movement last year toward the Tigers. Getting better yet. Really, you know, they they picked up like Leoni Martine and Mike fires and they dealt those guys for a couple of decent prospects. But there was just not a lot of meat on the bone there. And you didn't get to see that many of the prospects coming up last year. So you know, there's more to look forward to in general this year, but just having Miguel back really makes it feel like the Tigers again. And you know, he tore the bicep, and that's something that, you know, should be, you know, fully repaired, and healed and rehab and good to go. The thing. That's really kind of held him back is just the lower back issues. You know, he's had some disc issues, which is, you know, natural for player his age and a lot of times they can kind of get it back together and manage that to where you're still loose enough and aren't really having any systemic issues. So we'll see if maybe he can get back to that point this year because just say he's still a really really good hitter. The thing that's lacked. The last couple of years is it. He's just he win. The the back is. Bothering him and especially early in the season when it's cold. He's just not really able to get the ball up in the air. The way used to is not quite able to squat down into his legs and drive it up in the air as as much we saw this in two thousand sixteen where you know, his his numbers is on base percentage. You look at like the exit velocity off the bat. It's still you know, top two or three in the game consistently. But it's just a matter of getting in the air, and he finally start kind of hit that point in two thousand sixteen like right around the all star break and just went nuts. They'll the whole second half. And that's kind of been his MO is whole career. You know, he's always a little bit of a slow starter. And then takes off. So when you look at his numbers from last year. Yeah, there's like three home runs, but in every other capacity like he was hitting the ball hard wasn't striking out anymore than normal was still taking his walks and drive in runs in and that's kind of what we're looking for. And you just hope that they can kind of nurse them into the summer months where he's a little healthier than you spend the past two years, or at least feels better and can do a little bit of damage because. Yeah, we'd like to see. Five hundred home runs come up on the board here before too long in the last year really kind of cut into the progress toward those those markers that he's got this future. So is there a successor in the system? I mean is there prospect that's like waiting adverse base? Is there a possibility that he could eventually go to the H role or you could just going to play first base because he's McGaw Kebir. Yeah. I mean, I think he's going to play first base a lot still because he's Miguel Cabrera, and you know, and he's never gotten hurt, you know, play on the field. That's always running the bases or swinging the bat. So I'm not really sure if it matters that much, and he's still a pretty good defensive first baseman on the really isn't anybody who profiles like as a, you know, your typical like big Dongku mashes Tators and can't play anywhere else on the field. There's there's a guy Ray Ribeira who the Tigers took in the second round in two thousand seventeen who kind of fits that profile. But I just don't know if he's gonna hit a mouthful to have to see there's a lot of questions about, you know, his ability to to to hit, you know, advance pitching. And I don't I don't really see it coming. So I'm not really. But you know, first base, you know, really what we're looking at what the Tigers rebuild needs is a couple of good middle infielders who can hit that. That's where they need to focus. And if you know they have to piece up together at first base and a corner outfield. Spot down the road that you know, those things are easier to deal with. But, but yeah, it's the lack of a really good shortstop prospect, and the lack of a really good second base prospect that really is kind of the chief concern than in the Tigers need to find a way to address that with a trade, and they hopefully good draft hopefully a lucky draft as well. I'm glad we picked the time to do that. We did because we actually had my well minor signing, you know, it's not as big as the signing that happened yesterday. But you know, Josh Harrison is a member of the Tigers. Josh Harrison isn't Manny Machado. Listen. Let's not pretend like he is. But he's a free agent that sign so we're moving in the right direction of free agent signing again, you know, he's kind of this Oltra utility for the field. I mean, he could also pull the outfield if you really need. To. But you know, I wouldn't suggest it where does Josh Harrison fit on this team. And do we think he's going to see a lot of time? Yeah. I mean, I think he will probably I'd probably get pegged him for like four hundred and fifty ABC's something like that maybe five hundred get he is versatile enough that they can kind of move them around. And the thing that Tigers don't actually have the D H like now that Victor Martinez has gone that that space is opened up, and it's going to let them kind of kind of flow a lot of their sort of utility players on through that spot the go Cabrera will h some, but there's there should be enough room for Harrison to play second base. Yeah. You know, maybe a hundred games. Maybe they'll throw some to Nico good room who's kind of being developed as our hopefully, kind of Merwin Gonzales type utility, man. We'll see about the super part. So yeah, you know, I'm I'm glad that the Tigers. Didn't stop looking a my actually wrote a piece just the other day which felt like the fifth time. We'd we'd cata gone over the free agent market this offseason like begging the Tigers to do. Something and it was just that you know, that the way the cycle of free agency has kind of come undone the past couple of years, you're seeing you're seeing this more and more will, you know, the big guys are still getting their money for the most part. I assume Bryce will get his money, but it's the older veteran free agents that used to get like three or four deals, maybe, you know, year deals, maybe like eight ten million dollars. And those guys are now getting like one year two million dollars three million dollar offers. And so they're coming back into free agency every year two which just kind of like creates this spiral where all these guys are sitting around. So the Tigers didn't really have a second baseman. And I'm, you know, I'm not super enthused about Josh Harrison, necessarily, but you know, you put them next to Jordy Mercer who they already picked up from the pirates, and we can feel the clause of Jim Leyland all all around this move. Austin and he should help out a little bit. And you know, at least kind of they don't seem to think Nico. Good room is really like a bonafide like starting second baseman. So you and the prospects that we were afraid they were gonna call up guy Dowa Lugo who they got in the JD Martinez deal who really just doesn't just really hasn't panned out much as a prospect and wasn't really that. Good get at the time either in that deal. Even though he was sort of the main piece so we didn't want to see him. So I'm happy to have Jack Harrison in there for a year as a stopgap, and then we will wait for the legend of Cody Clements continue to bless him. And it was maybe say it was about to ask a very selfish question. Law or longhorns guy. You know, you gotta ask about, Cody and know, see what's going on to see this. I say this eighty five times, my mom named me. Austin for a reason I was supposed to go to Texas chose other options. I love the horns I watched the horns, I just got done watching the horns yesterday play rice. Is there hope for Cody Clinton? Yeah. I do think there is there is hope for Cody Clements. He's not he's not any kind of you know, top one hundred prospect. But the tools are there enough that if I think if he can just kind of find a way to to shorten his bat, and he seems like the type of guy who will go all out and do whatever it takes which is going to need to. I don't really get any sense of that sort of like, Roger Clemens son, kind of nonsense, brother. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So he seems like he's all he's all in on that. And he's he's going to have to you know, develop as back control and learned the kind of fight through some tougher at bats. I think because the swing is long. You know, he's swinging for the fences a little bit, and that's probably not gonna not gonna carry over into the upper levels of the minors. But you know, he he he's sorta has some neck. There's just something about him. And I don't know if it's just his personal cabinets or what? But he's he's a guy that's real easy to kind of dream on a little bit. And think like, you know, what I bet, you know, this dude will be a serviceable second base than hits twenty home runs. It's coming give it like two years. And I think most most prospect watchers most Coutts will say like, you know, his odds just aren't aren't really very good of ever being a starter. But I certainly am interested to see what he does this year. And I think this year is probably gonna tell us a whole lot. He had a good first year. But you know, he's playing against kit nineteen year old international free agent, kids and. Prospect. Yeah. Planning is basically like the American conference after you've just gotta think twelve I mean. Yeah, you should accede. Let's talk about the twenty seven. Yeah. Twenty seven eighteen draft broke lick. I'm trying to I'm like doing it in my head. You got to golden spikes award finalists in there. What was kind of the field coming out of that draft? And in retrospect to this point. I know it's not retrospect a lot because it was just last year. How are we feeling about all about the go the draft that you came out with? Really pretty darn good. The Tigers have had a long history of Matt drafting and developing very well. And some of that has to do with giving away picks to sign free agents kind of through the Mike Illitch years and the Tigers really stripping down like, you know, their international scouting efforts and really kind of pairing their whole organization down to the bone to really put all resources into trying to win the World Series right now. And so there are plenty of reasons it's not necessarily just that the, you know, the Tigers front office sucks at this elevator has a very long and distinguished history. As a scout those guys do to some degree know what they're doing. And we just kind of saw this year. Like if in the twenty eighteen draft it felt like they finally recognize some things that other teams had known all along which is to look for high end tools to look for upside. And to not, you know, keep drafting the same like semi hard. Throwing right hander out of the SEC. Who wasn't particularly notable? They they did that kind of thing like for years doing that. Picking up like, you know, random college outfielders who just didn't really have the speed or the power potential Dever become, you know, anything particularly good. So we think they did better. We liked Casey Mayes that. That was kind of a no brainer. Pick for them. I did make a fuss about preferring Nick Madrigal to some degree. But I felt like it was thin. Slicing you know, there's not. Wouldn't I wasn't going to be mad either way? So they did. All right, there Parker medals prospect who has a lot of tools as well. He's fast. He's got good power. Pretty good. I for his age swing is little long. He's got refinements to make. But I think everyone was happy with it. You know, Cody Clemens is a third round pick the first first selection in the third round. So he's a little little higher than just a third round pick. But I felt pretty good about that. They picked up a guy Tariq's grouble who is a hard throwing lefty with a really good rising fastball. And I think they got him in like the fifth or sixth round. So yeah, there were there were just a little bit more upside they grabbed a guy Hugh Smith out of like a small school up in Oregon who can throw ninety six ninety seven and is like six nine. Kind of all headed come together for him late in in his college career. So yeah, there was just a little bit more of that kind of thing. Like, some some upside. Guys, Brock death ridge who has one of the best names in the minute, the minor leagues college outfielder with some great. I'm like double plus speed plus power. I don't know if he's gonna hit enough. But at least he's the Tigers seemed to have recognized that draft some athletes once you get past round one or two go go for the lettuce, and hopefully they'll improve the player development system enough to develop a few of these guys and pull something out of the late rounds, which is something we really never never really get. You know, I think alike, drew smiley, Alex villa? Like, you know, those were college pickups in the late in the late top ten rounds where they found somebody. But a lot of times they they just have completely whiffed after the first round or two. So I think in in general, we're all feeling better about that. Is this the question of whether you know, obviously how they pan out. And if there's really a a noticeable change in process like the Tigers, you know, they definitely gotten out of the data revolution. And they have all the the the tools now, we just don't know for sure if they know how to use them. So so does Harrison start at second base on opening day? Yes, he does. Okay. And then good rooms kind of the utility guy behind him. Help me always shortstop because you know, we talked about the struggles at the middle infield positions who is on the receiving end of a double play ball when we're talking about shortstop. Let's gonna be Jordy Mercer as the starter for sure. And that's probably gonna be is. That's probably going to be the case all year nickel. Good drum can play shortstop, you know, an and kind of fake it there for a few games. So, you know, Georgie might get get some days off to let me go play there as well. It's it's kind of a weird situation because you want nickel good room to get those at bats. Because he, you know at twenty six came out and had a pretty good year. You know, he's he's a guy who looks like he could hit fifteen twenty home runs steel fifteen twenty bases. It's just a they can't quite figure out where they wanna play him. And he he's probably gonna play some corner. And you're gonna see like Kristen Stewart, Nick casinos. Take some of those D H, bats too. But yeah, I think Jordan Mercer basically got a lock at shortstop. And the guy they traded Leona smarten four last year to the Indians on Willie Castro is a twenty one year old switch hitting shortstop who you know. He's got the glove to play shortstop at at least an average level in the major leagues. So he's going to be the guy to get the next shot. Probably next year. I would assume he he probably probably doesn't have the bat but to stick and become like a part of a rebuilt like contender. He'll be probably will end up in a utility role somewhere down the road if things go well, so that's kind of where they're at an. Yeah, you you might see willy Castro at some point before September. But he's kind of kind of the backup like, you know, late season. Call up type type cat Isaac Paradees is probably the Tigers best hitting prospect right now, he's a nineteen year old from Mexico who they traded. Justin Wilson, Alex Avila, who we talked about earlier to the to the cubs in two thousand sixteen and got him when he was seventeen at the time, and he's just about to turn twenty now and his mashed his way like right through the Florida state league absolutely wreck shop there and at Yeary this year in AA as a nineteen year old. He has the hands and the arm and pray. Probably the instincts to in the first step to play shortstop. But really just just lacks the range and has gotten has really kind of filled out early which I think is one of the reasons why a lot of lot of the the prospect lists haven't had him very high or haven't even had them in the top one hundred is that a lot of people seem to think like he's already, you know, basically, he's just a dude who was really advanced at a young age, and he's he doesn't have that much ceiling left to fill out, but you know, the dude mashes and and he can play the infield. And the Tigers need all the guys like that that they can get. So he probably will end up moving to either second base or third base down the road. But you know, you look at the Tigers top ten prospects or whatever and see him with the shortstop next to him. That's probably not the case. So I wouldn't expect him to to come up and be the Tigers next shortstop unless he really gets in just incredible shape and pulls off some kind of Johnny Peralta renaissance with himself as a young, man. Johnny Peralta had to do it when he was a little bit. Older. So yeah. Those are kind of options, and that's that's really like the key positional weakness that they have if the Tigers head, you know, Fernando Tateishi junior might even be just asking way too much in general. But if the Tigers had a good shortstop prospect, I think the entire system would look a whole lot better. Hell if you just one of the one of the pirates infield prospects at this point. I mean, they have eighty five of them. They got plenty. Yup. Just like give us one. You know, it's like a it's like a lending it, Anna. Anna, hoarding exactly and we just call San Diego. They have eighty five pitchers to. Yeah. I would like to call San Diego L of Hewlett better. We call on sandy zeal prowler Prenton loves making deals to that's for sure he does. And you know, you guys are there right now, they put the money down. So it's still seems like you guys could use yourself a nice starter. You know, maybe a maybe an extreme fly ball pitcher like Matt Boyd or something who really durable, and you know, develop the new slider last year. You know, I'm not saying we bought that much. I don't expect release your AS or anything, you know, thinking about it though. Okay. This is like a dip into your prospect pool is not even a dip in if you take one prospect out of there, it's like taking like just a milliliter like it's just ridiculous. But you know, I gotta ask because you know, Jim Leyland was there forever. Did you see a change in the team at all between how ran or anything when Gardenhire stepped in? I know it's got to be kind of weird having a guy that you went. Ahead with for so long now in the manager spot in the manager's office in Detroit. Yeah. I mean, it felt a little weird last year. You know, the thing is like Ron Gardenhire was just a very likable, dude. You know, obviously, a really really sound baseball, man and stuff. So it wasn't that awkward. It was what was jarring was going from Jim Leyland to Brad office for a couple years, and then, you know, having everything just flame out, and then we go to Ron Gardenhire, and we're talking about the future. But we've basically got Ron Gardenhire bringing in like the two thousand five Minnesota Twins staff. We've got Rick Anderson fishing hunter. Yeah. Exactly. You know, torii hunter is going to be in a special assistant to Darden her at some point here unless you got. Which you might might find a better gig. But yeah, you know, I really wanted gave Kappler. And if you know when the when the decision time came up my feeling on it was like the Tigers are going to suck for a couple of years. We all know that they've got to catch up in a lot of areas of the game. Like, why wouldn't you hire? Gabe Kaplan, who was head of player development for the fucking dodgers. And try some things because if things don't work out, you know, it doesn't matter. But instead they went with like the the move that they made almost felt like if they were going to continue to try to win and on hold the band together. And all that that's when you would bring in Ron Gardenhire, like Ron Gardenhire would have made a lot more sense like in two thousand fourteen when Brad Osman started than he did to me. Now, you know, and he's a very Santa Claus in character. He's funny. He's got the dad jokes like I can't help but find him endearing, but but I I would personally like to punt him in the entire coaching staff into the Pacific and most of the front. Office with him at this point. So. Yeah. That's where I, you know. That's where I am. You know, we've talked about it enough. And I I don't really feel like the need to make a huge fuss. At this point. It's just is what it is. And we've given them a couple of years, and they are starting to catch up in certain areas. They analytics department is really really bulked out. And and you can see the impact of that a lot more. It's just that, you know, a couple of years ago, we could have just hired like hind bloom or somebody from the raise or you know, picked up a GM who could walk right in and build a modern organization from scratch within like a year or two, you know, like what's DO? Epstein did when he went to the cubs cubs were still like filing scouting reports on little note cards that were all in these library card catalogs, and just you know, antiquated bullshit everywhere. Theo Epstein went in there with the you know, the flame thrower and outsource the database. And did some of those things that got it done really fast. Whereas the Tigers are extensively in your two of the. Rebuild if you believe in such thing. And and we're just kind of starting to come online with all that stuff right now. And you still don't know like, okay. But are the player development people that they've hired good? You know, we've still got Lloyd mcclendon as overall like hitting instructor for the entire organization. That doesn't terrify me. Don't like the Clintons for doing this a long time. But he's not my idea of like a cutting edge. Like man, who's who sees the future knows knows how to get there. So yeah. Overall, the organization has been a real source of frustration on those on those grounds for quite a while. And it just kind of sucks that we've already spent like three years. The Tigers haven't made the playoffs since two thousand fourteen and it just feels like just now they're actually starting to make real progress. So yeah, there's my take on the whole organization as a whole we nailed we nailed it. We got everything. So third base. So we looking at Candelaria opening day. Yup. For sure and KENDALL REO has been a really nice player. He had some wrist issues last year and basically his production just tanked after the first two months of the season. But but most of what we've seen from. It's a very professional at bet. A really good I for the strike zone. A lot of discipline seeps to kind of do everything right out on the field. He's got good hands and a good arm. Third base. You know, he's not particularly fast or athletic. But he he's just he's like, a baseball Rhett type guy and. Excuse me. Yeah. You know? I think he's gonna he's going to do fine at least for a year or two. I kind of think that maybe is a radius. We we mentioned earlier at short staff will end up playing third base and kindle aria would would probably make a good first baseman. He's kinda got those leadership qualities. He's got the hands to to pick balls out of the dirt and make the throws any nineties. Just kind of a smart guy who grew up really intensely in the game. His dad is a hitting instructor in the Dominican Republic and Jamie grew up plan with like Robinson canot. He still trains with canot and some of Kono's boys every off season. He is he's a bonafide baseball player. And I, you know, I don't really know if there's like the potential post like a four or five were season. But he seems like a guy who's pretty likely to come out there and just be like a three war player playing average defense, you know, a little bit above average with the bat and just kind of do that for the next five or six years. Player most likely on this roster to post a four to post five or season. Wow. It might still be begging to be honest. I might say just because you really do have to you know, and it's hard to the fan to take the actual injury risk to go Cabrera as seriously as you as you need to. It might be Michael Fulmer. It might still be Michael Fulmer if Michael Fulmer is Niyaz, okay. And he can kind of stay healthy this year and kind of get a little bit of that twenty six thousand strikeout touchback. It also depends on who's warrior using because. Yeah, you know, like fan grabs for is really heavily fit based and and it didn't like Michael Fulmer as much as be ref did even in his rookie of the year season. But yeah, that that's kind of I think it's probably our best bet is Michael former or megi kind of goes hand at some point during the season it gets hot and his feeling good. And maybe he posts at number. So when we're looking at this outfield. It's not fun. It's not fun. Nope. There's a bat do there. They're they're human beings out there. Be human beings all of their very slow moving. So we talked about Michael Fulmer who was a subject of a lot of trade talk. This not not necessarily this off season but more likely during the season last year. Yeah. Another guy that there seems to be trade rumors swirling allow around to say, the least Nick, Nick. Kost janos. I don't know why. I can't talk today. But you know, you know, humans, right? Yeah. My malts getting dry. Let's my. But so doesn't it cut the Anna's hold value? And what do you think the return would be if you want up trading him? Yeah. I mean, I think. Yeah. I mean, he does hold some value. But because of his limitations defensively, which are pretty extreme limitations. It's kind of tricky to find a fit like I really thought like the Astros, especially with like Marlene Gonzales, leaving their, you know, like Nick Cassiano says a gay, and you know, I think they let Evan gattis go. So they had like an opening as a D H quite a bit there. I thought a team like that would be a perfect fit for them. And they might come looking for him because Nicosia animals is a really really good hitter. And I don't think I don't think we've seen the best of them. I think if you put them in a little bit friendlier park as far as centerfield goes. I think you've got a guy who's pretty likely continue just to hit for high average. And you know, maybe hit thirty home runs a year. You know, he's twenty seven I believe now he should be into his prime years, but the past couple of years, he's he's pretty good offensive player. Overall, just based on the bat, even though he doesn't really add any value with his speed or anything like that. And he still doesn't really draw that many walks, but. No you look at the season. He had last year with literally nothing in the lineup. Like he was the only only hitter in that lineup that opposing pitcher is even recognized. So he didn't see as much to hit last year. And I think it'll be interesting to see if that changes a little bit the season with. Yeah. With biggie in front of him, probably I'm assuming and Kristen Stewart behind them. There's a little bit more of a threat around him. And hopefully, he'll see a little bit more to hit because he is still kind of a free swinger. But he's also one of those guys like like, I think of them as a hitter sorta like Michael Brantley like he's just a dude who just smokes line drives all over the ballpark. And it's the kind of contact that doesn't really show up as well as as you might hope in the in the the statistics because he doesn't hit a ton of fly balls. And if he did and they moved into a smaller park with the different team. You know, like the Crawford boxes will be perfect for Castanos. It would just turn into pound balls out there all day. So, but the problem is, you know, we two years ago what happened with trying to trade JD Martinez. And all these teams just kind of like, well, you know, we're not dad interested. You know, we don't really like to play him in the outfield, and you know, on the other side of it. We're over here. Like, what the hell are you people looking at you know, this is the best hitter in the game. Like JD Martinez is a better hitter than Mike trout. He just doesn't have my Trump speed. And it was just incredible to kind of watch that whole thing go down and to come away, basically with like three nobody's, you know, three like, forty future value prospects. Like that will Lugo is arguably a forty five, but they really didn't get anybody. Even in the moment, we thought was ever gonna turn into anything. So then you look at the Cassiano says even sort of like the the step down from that type of player, and I just can't really see anybody. You know, anybody trading for him. And you know, or at least not giving up anything that we we'd really want. And the thing was, you know, the market has changed so much. We I would have thought like two years ago. I was see him like, you know, the Tigers really need to extend them if they don't, you know, the only thing that's going to kind of work out for the maybe is that they can extend them the qualifying offer. And hopefully, you get a pick after the first round. But you know, I don't I just can't really even see Cassiano getting a fifty million dollar contract. To Tigers offered him a seventeen million dollar qualifying offer for next year. I'm pretty sure he would snatch that shit up. So yeah. So that really killed some of the value to their because, you know, going into the offseason, we didn't know if the market would be slow as it was last year again, and I thought well, all right. You know, you can factor in the fact that if a team traits form right now, and they have them all year. We'll then they get to make the qualifying offer and get that. Dick. But but no one's going to bet on that. I think the way things have gone this offseason. So yeah, that really devalued them even further, and you know, the Tigers will probably move them just to save some money in July, and maybe pick up, you know, just a decent prospect some somebody who's kind of a throw in. And you never know. Maybe they get really lucky and Cassiano goes ham all first half and somebody really need the bat. You know, we kind of hit things work out perfectly with the UN assessment of trade back in two thousand fifteen but that was just such a perfect confluence of circumstances where the Mets were really desperate to go for it needed. That impact bet, you know, the odds of that that kind of deal coming up again, I think are pretty slim. So I think we're just going to be stuck with them. I like the Cassiano side perfectly. I'd be perfectly happy to extend him. Actually, it just doesn't seem like they've talked that much about that. And you don't really want him in the outfield. But I think if the Tigers signed long-term, you could probably start talking him into, you know, playing some first base and moving around the diamond a little bit more. And as I said, you know, the Tigers have a lot of pitching coming. But there aren't that many bats in the in the farm system and keeping a guy like Castanos around who's who's a leader is kind of the leader of the younger guys in the clubhouse seems like it'd be a pretty good move. Because I just don't imagine that they even have to pay him that much like, I don't know if he'd accept it. Nick Cassiano says a union rep. And you know, I I assume there's a lot of pressure on those guys especially to Matt sign extensions and try to take things to free agency. But you know, Nicasio probably isn't going to get like a five year deal for fifty million in free agency itself. The Tigers could probably extend him at that, you know, that amount or even less, and maybe things will come around again next offseason. And they'll talk about that, it's kind of an awkward fit. But again, like when when you're desperate for for bats that you have. Much almost major league ready pitching coming as the Tigers. Do you know, you kind of have to figure out a way to to milk that and get the get the bats in there somewhere to support it? Otherwise, we're going to be waiting on that side of things while the pitchers develop. And you know, you gotta time that window. It's not easy. So who finished his out the Southfield? Well, it's going to be Jacoby Jones and centerfield. I assume the Tigers are really just kind of going to let let him cut loose this year and play pretty much the whole season. His bat is just you know is just not major league caliber, and I don't really know at this point in his career if he can kind of improve it much. The Tigers have tried to work on some of those things like trying to work on to strike approach with him and shorten his swing and and just trying to make a little more contact. But you know, those are the kind of things you do with the speed player to try to just hopefully get him to put the ball in play. And he has the raw power and the Russ bead where to you know, to be forced multipliers every time he makes contact, but he doesn't make that much contact. But what he does do as run around centerfield, look like Calvin Johnson or something hall and balls in all over the place, and you know, and great out is one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball and in commerical park with Kristen Stewart on one side, and Nick Cassiano is on the other side of the Tigers really need that. And so I think they're probably just gonna roll within this year. They've got a guy Victor race who was the rule five selection last year and he could play some center field. He was stuck in the major leagues the last year, and and really didn't belong there. And so. Oh, the Tigers are going to want wanna give him as much time at AAA as possible to hopefully recoup some of that development time. And then the, you know, the future is dance Cameron and came on. I think will be up probably in September. And at that point, you know, we'll just have to see if to Kobe Jones still has has a role. But I imagine the Tigers are going to give desk Cameron the whole year, basically at Toledo to kind of get comfortable and settle in. Maybe he'll come up and fill in. If there's an injury or two something like that. But he's the future at center field. And Jacoby Jones probably is just a stopgap this year who will eventually be a defensive replacement, but he is fun to watch play defense and fun to watch run the bases. Kids got his hair on fire all the time. And he's he's been entertaining. I just think there really isn't anything left a dream on there. Even though a lot of people would really like to. 'cause when he does run into any has a lot of power. But actually, he's a little bit like he's a little bit like you Ottoman Cada in the way, I think about it. I'm like, you know, very athletic and just. You know, just has no sense of the strike zone and swings at bloody everything and can't make contact with most of. So that's one caught. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So if we're talking feature the outfield, you obviously mentioned das- Cameron, if we're if I told you that it's twenty twenty two is any of these prospects. Do you think are still on that are on this roster? Wind up in that outfield as far as the minor league. Yeah. Yeah. Desk cameron. I, you know, I obviously, I think is probably the center field of the future. This guy. Jacob Robson who is kind of a kind of a classic fourth outfielder type. And the Tigers do have quite a few guys like that. Like the guy Brock death ridge. Who I mentioned earlier there's a couple of other players like that who have a lot of speed probably aren't gonna hit enough to really be an everyday player. So they have some options like that. And then Kristen Stewart, I think is going to hit and this moves us over to left field because Kristen Stewart we'll play left field. I assume basically the whole season this year, and they want to see him out there as much as possible. Kristen Stewart like he the dude can't throw like he just sees us. One of those those dudes like delmon young or something where there's just no whip in his arm like he's got kind of short. Arms. And is this brutal watching them throw. So he's really limited to left field. His speed is maybe a little bit below average, and he'll get to to most balls, and he'll catch most of what he gets to. But I assume he's going to continue to great out as a pretty mediocre defender. And that's not going to get better over time. But what he will do is show a lot of patience at the plate. And just mash them dinger's. He's got a lot of natural raw power. He's good at hunting hunting a pitch. He can turn on and crush. And I think the Tigers will have a lot of like Tigers fans are going to enjoy watching him hit this year. Even though, you know, the defensive liabilities are always going to keep him from being anything more than maybe like an average regular and. Yeah, you look down through the farm system. There really aren't any high end outfielders until you get to Parker meadows who is nineteen years old and along way away still so. So if we go onto starting pitching, you do have Michael fomer Matt Boyd didn't have an awful year. My boys'll expert if we're looking pass those two what does it look like when it comes to starting pitching. And as I obviously outside of Casey mice because we're obviously excited about Casey is. I mean, it's hard not to be. And you know, you you've told me before the you think he's major league ready almost now what is the starting rotation. Gonna look like now. And what do you think the future is concerning the farm system? Yeah. And Ashley pitching is where the Tigers have have placed their emphasis in the draft. You know, basically since two thousand fifteen when they took Bo boroughs. They took Matt manning in two thousand sixteen they took Alex veto in two thousand seventeen they took Casey by twenty eighteen and we traded for Franklin. Perez is kind of key piece in the Justin Verlander deal. So those guys kinda form like the core apart from like das- Cameron Jake Jake Rodgers Isaac Paradees those five guys are the arms that that the rebuild is going to depend on a couple of them working out and being good. And but for the time beat well and for the time being at the major league level. Yeah. You've got former you've got Matt Boyd who I think is primed to have a pretty darn good season. He really revamped his slider last year like completely rebuilt at Dr line baseball in the offseason where he trains, and it was the best version like this really sweeping sweeping slider that he was just back foot and on righties like all day and his fastball velocity. E for most of the year was really down like Beppu, dude. His traditionally sat ninety two ninety three and he was sitting like eighty nine ninety for a lot of the early part of last season. And that lasted he came back. And he and he was and he's been durable. You know, he's he's been out there pitching one hundred and fifty plus innings every year since we've gotten them hasn't really had anything major. So he's got the durability factor on his side to and so yeah, they make a kind of see him putting it together with with the velocity back and the slider rebuil- and grading out. Like extremely well by like fan grass pitch values by you know, wolf against all that stuff was just a radically reinvented pitch. I could see putting those two things together and actually posted like three or four season this year. I wouldn't be terribly surprised by that. And then, yeah, it's this, you know, the the two guys, you know, Fulmer and Daniel Norris who are both, you know, twenty five years old still very young. But the Tigers brought them up pretty early. And you know, we've already burned I think like basically two years of service time on both of them. So we've got this year and then three years. Beyond that of control and they've just both really plagued by injuries. You know, like at the end of two thousand sixteen Michael Fulmer was the rookie of the year. Gained Norris like came down the stretch on the final month of the season. Was you know to striking out like eleven per nine ahead. The walks a little bit under control and a lot of people kinda picked him as like, okay? This is the dude is gonna break out in two thousand seventeen and he's just dealt with with this ongoing groin injury. And then the scar tissue lingering from that groin injury after the surgery, and then a cleanup and this went on all twenty seventeen and for most of two thousand eighteen and it it's really sucked because Daniel Norris has just been snake bit since the Tigers got him due to head thyroid cancer. He fell and fractured. Like one of his like the the process, I'm one of his one of his vertebrae doing box jumps some box dump contest. So it's just that all these like, weird injuries and stuff and Daniel Norris still has fantastic stuff. He's got an evil slider. He win. He's got his fastball at full power and his throne ninety three to ninety five. He's got a height spin rate. He dust people upstairs. The slider is nasty. He's got really good curve ball with a high spend rate. He's got a really good change up. Like the stuff is all there. He's just a little bit like Francisco Lear Yano at his best, you know, like like a little bit effectively wild like wastes a few too many pitches because he's a fly ball pitcher and a high spin rate. Fastball pitcher a lot of the foul balls are foul back to the stands and theirs. Tend to be a lot of them like the week contact a lot of times ends up in the stands to the sides or behind him instead of in people's gloves, sway a sinker baller tends to get a lot of choppers and grounders. So he can he can be a guy who's not very efficient on that score. But he's still supremely talented and has never really had like any kind of an arm injury. So I'm still holding out hope for Daniel. Great. Great kids super interesting personality. Yeah, i'm. Still stoke on Daniel Nora. So we'll just have to see if he had Fulmer can kind of get it together. If the two of those to stay healthy this year and can kind of show what they're capable of. The Tigers rotation is really going to surprise a lot of people and be a lot better than I think people would would tend to expect. But you know, but that's that's a big gamble. You'll just have to kind of see how things play out there. Dan, one of those guys or Boyd, you know, if they are doing really, well, you know, those guys have to be looked at his trade ships, of course, then immediately as well. And then you nor is in our guy Caleb for who's the Weinstein can just like swap stories of the bad. Look, though that I mean, that's just ridiculous for then. Enormous. I mean, yeah, it's just just a string of bad luck. Yeah. It really is. And then, you know, you've got obviously, you know, we're stuck with this Jordan Zimmermann contract. And you know, when Jordan Zimmerman's neck, isn't flaring up on him. He's he goes out there. And he looks a little, you know, a decent amount. Like, the Jordan Zimmermann. You saw with the Washington nationals. You know, like really, you know, just excellent command fastball slider. Curveball carbon people up really really, you know, really good pitch ability really smart at setting up hitters, but you just don't know what you're gonna get and the contract was untradable. So he's he kinda tends to just be an afterthought. You know? He's kind of a veteran leader in the clubhouse. It feels like, you know, like kind of the guy who, you know, the younger guys will go to. But you know, how much value does that have really waiting for this? And and then you know, the Tigers signed Matt Moore anti-state Ross this off season. And probably elevators kind of had a tendency to do this where he comes out like really early in free agency and overpays for a couple of guys that he wants to fill positions and then by the end of the off season. You know, you're seeing better players go for even less than the Tigers paid. And and that's kind of where we're at. You know, we're seeing like Tyson Ross making five million dollars. I think Matt Moore Jordy Mercer. I know got the, you know, five million dollars. And now we're seeing better options go for two or three that they could awaited on which is a little bit little bit frustrating, but Tyson Ross is going to have a starting role almost almost certainly as as long as camp goes reasonably well for him, and he's healthy. And he's a couple years removed now from the threats outlets syndrome surgery, and he pitched really well in the first half last. Year, but cata fell apart in the middle of the season. Right. When they were looking to trade him, and then the cardinals just picked him up on the waiver wire and used them in relief. And you know, we didn't really see a whole lot of them from that point on. So that's just a question. If he you know, he swears that you know, the durability is back. He's finally gotten himself back in, you know, the kind of condition he was before the surgery and all that. And if that's the case Tyson Ross could still be pretty good and would probably probably will love pitching and Comerica park. Because he's a guy who you know, can use the big part of the field with a high fastball. And yeah, you know, I could see him having a decent year. Matt Moore, I didn't really like that. They got him in the first place, and that has a lot to do with just I don't really want to see them blocking Daniel Norris for a guy who's twenty nine years old has been wracked with injuries and hasn't really been effective since you know, twenty fourteen twenty fifteen. So, you know, I don't know they added him in there. And you know, it's it never hurts to pick up a lefty. But the Tigers already have Norris. They have Blaine hardy who was absolutely masterful last year kind of going between starting and then long relief and then middle relief, and then spot starting again, and was really great, you know, in every capacity. So they kind of got three left these like that who none of whom really assured a place in the in the the rotation. And I assume they're kinda going to do you know as as far as spring training goes? But I really I really hope the Tigers prioritized Daniel Norris, and if they don't I'm probably going to be super furious. So just awarding to any tiger fans out there, you can expect a very heated Email for Brandon day. It's such a thing happens so easily when we gets the bullpen we go seven eight nine so kind of breakdown with the seven eight nine for this team is going to look like for me. Okay. Let's go on reverse. 'cause it's it's more certain that way. Shane green is going to start out as the closer again and Shane green. You know, every year will put together like three or four months where he looks like a really really good dominant reliever sitting ninety five with a late life to seamer that really runs away from lefties and breaks a lot of bats to right handers and has a really nasty cutter slider combination like really nasty like when he's going good. The slider is is that frisbee slider that you talked about with like a Corey kluber. It's a nasty look and pitch, but Schengen has had a lot of injury issues. He's head. He's he's had Tommy John like way back when he was like nineteen. He's had a lot of nerve issues and his head to kind of have the nerve move. The owner nerve moved a couple of times, and you know, comes in the camp every spring with like numb fingers and deals with kind of those pins and needles all season, and it's really hard for him to be consistent. I assume that's kind of what the problem is. Because he'll look so good. And then all of a sudden the stuff will fade for a month. And you don't really know why? And then it comes back and he'll pitcher Lee. Well, again, the Tigers need to kind of catch him in a hot streak and probably not use them quite so much as they did in the first half last year. You know, this is another this is another thing is that there's sometimes feels like a disconnect between Ron Gardenhire and the front office as far as like the front office isn't telling him, you know, what to do. That's best for the rebuild. You know? They're kind of like okay guardian. You know, it's your show. We got this is Gerard or do what you gotta do. But you know, he had chain green pitch on back to back days a whole bunch in the first half, even in cold weather. He pitched the day and night game of a doubleheader and closed. Both those games. Like, this isn't what you're doing with with a guy that is really has only asset to you is that a trade ship. So hopefully, they are a little more careful with him this year because he doesn't have the ability to come out there and rip off a really good stretch. It'd be a pretty nice piece to trade in July. So we'll see how that goes. The number eight spot is gonna go to Joe Jimenez. Who is definitely the best reliever. The Tigers haven and maybe overall like their best arm in the major leagues apart from per from Fulmer Nora, you know, Jimenez can run it out there. Ninety eight has a really lively fastball and gets really good extension is got a nasty slider. He's the guy who looks like, you know, he could be a prototypical dominant late innings reliever and think he's twenty three this year. So last year was really his first full season in two thousand seventeen it was kinda ragged, and you could see him kind of kind of getting tense and fighting it a little bit under pressure and last year. He really settled in the dude is a beast like he has built and he spends offseason working out like a fanatic. And you know, we just see like Instagram clips of him all day. Just like, you know, this ridiculous bench press ridiculous. You know, you know, Deb, lift just everything. So yeah, he's a guy who's really really focused really motivated and. He would for a traditional team. You would you would pay him as like, okay? This is the closer of the future. You know, even before bullpen and get a kickback, and I'm not a fan of using your best reliever that way, so and the Tigers haven't used them that way, they've kind of flexed him into the toughest toughest leverage spots, or at least. They did last year. And I assume it will be similar to this year. But in the end like Joe Jimenez is another one who you know, he's he's very young. But you don't know how many years you're gonna get with a a hard throwing reliever, and he's probably another one that they're going to have to really consider as a trade ship. If he has a strong first half because I I just don't really get the sense that the Tigers believe, and if they don't believe it, we don't we aren't going to believe it that the team is going to be ready to win by twenty twenty two twenty three. And at that point. You're you're looking at you know, guys like Candelaria when Jimenez like, well, you know, these guys are going to be in their last year here of team control by that point. And so you probably better move them at their their highest value point, especially a reliever with the injury risk. So. Yeah, that's that's kind of the story on Joe. He'll be fun to watch and probably will make a very nice addition for some contending team at the deadline this year and irritate everyone here done the Tigers are kind of in that place where they're try. They're going to try out a lot of arms beyond the top five starting pitching arms that they have in the minor leagues. There's there's some pretty strong relief arms. There's guys like Spencer Turnbull bull boroughs. Kyle Funkhouser who, you know, probably in the end profile Moore's relievers than they do starting pitchers, and we might see those guys get get at least a crack at it this year, and they're gonna wanna keep those those spots. So I don't really know who's going to be the seventh guy. I think last year. It was drew Verhagen who is kind of a late blooming reliever that the tires have really liked in battle outta injury issues when like his mid twenties, and I think he's like twenty eight twenty nine now and really kind of like refound his slider last year. He's a big kid. He's like six seven, you know, he could run it. There ninety seven pretty lightly to see her. And he you know, he could be good. But his command is just kind of been spotty over his time. And he's another died who's a little bit of just of a wild card. But I right now, I would pay him as the seventh guy, and hopefully it'll be Matt Moore and Blaine hardy as the two left is. And then you kind of cycle through all these arms with the final two spots in the bullpen and just keep auditioning people in see got, you know, when when they come out who can who can throw strikes and throw their best stuff. That's the name of the game right there. You can throw strikes. We're all good yet yet. And if not then we know for sure you're no good. We'd probably need to send you somewhere else. That's the proven Graham. Well, nope. You've finally figured out and started throwing strikes, and you suck. So. Yeah. Maybe that's why so many guys don't throw strikes. What are your expectations for this team? Expectations. Yeah. Yeah. That's tough. Like, I, you know, we're gonna place where I just kind of want to see some fun baseball. Like the Tigers were were damn near a five hundred team for the first couple months last year, kind of gave us some things to root for you. And you and you've got to have them kinda take on that like underdog mentality and enjoy it. And and kind of like, you know, just sort of soak in that feel and the Tigers did a pretty good job of that last year. There was a crazy incident where they won this game during the game a goose like was on the field and wouldn't fly away. And then it tried to fly away like smack into the scoreboard and plummeted into the crowd. It was this little fiasco. So they made up like a decoy goose and called it the rally goose and carry that thing around with them, you know, for months like, oh, this kind of goofy crap, you know, anything to get us through the fact that it's not going to be that great. You know, I'm kind of looking at the Tigers basically is like an another sixty eight seventy win season with. I think a lot more upside maybe present than last year like it wouldn't be impossible for them to to really kinda go nuts and run it almost all the way up to five hundred. I don't expect that. But there are at least some some pieces that could could break the right way for them. If a couple of guys stay healthy, which is kinda always the way it goes. But the Tigers also have a lot better depth than the in the minor leagues. And they've had like, you know in a decade. You know? So if there are injuries to the rotation that got guys like Spencer Turnbull Cal Funkhouser, Bo Burroughs who they can call up that's better depth than they've had in a while. And it's kinda the same place in the middle infield. Like, I'm not sure that they'd even lose very much. If Jordy Mercer went down, and they called up Willie Castro just to play good defense and do whatever little bit. He can do with the bat. So, you know, there's not a lot of look forward to as far as the team and MS that sort of the problem, you just hope that they're kind of like a fun entertaining group, and you're looking individually like, okay, we need to try. You know, we need to hope that this guy can maximize value we need to hope that this guy can take a step forward. It's very player development centered. Major league baseball at this point in Detroit, Glenn against the grain might work out for the Tigers in that way. But the front office has just doesn't have the kind of track record that really inspires any confidence. And what we've seen? I think so far is a lot of passivity from from the Tigers. Like a lot of us would like to see them. Valuating their prospects and trading guys away for for major league players. Like, if you don't, you know, if you're good at this. You kind of already have an idea you have more information than everybody does about your prospects in if you don't think this guy's gonna work out while move him before his prospects, stock falls, and we're not seeing much of that. And it just really gives everyone. I think the feeling that. The Tigers don't really have a plan. You know, I I've read the cubs way. You know? I I've read, you know, like stuff about like how the Astros rebuil- that, you know, those are that really had a very specific plan down to like we want this player. We want this player to to build on the cubs head Anthony Rizzo and mine from day one that was going to be there guy. And then they were going to hopefully, sign Jon Lester in two years. That's very specific. The tigers. I I really kind of throwing things at the wall and hoping they stick I think, and you know, they've done. Okay. As far as the draft goes I and I liked the arms, I'm actually a huge bat manning fan when we did our consensus list this year. I actually had manning ahead of Casey Mayes, which no one else will will do. But I'm I'm. I'm pretty done convinced Manning's going to be a beast and might end up looking a little bit like Noah Syndergaard. If he can if you can find that cutter because he's a big kid. He's he hasn't pitched very much. He's you know, he was a basketball player who had a scholarship to Lola in in high school and took a pitching pretty late, and he's six six with just like this, huge stride massive extension. You know, hit a couple rough. I the first year first half year of of his time as a pro the there was a lot of clean up to do in his delivery. And he lost velocity. He was inconsistent. And a lot of people I think back away from him right there. And he was in the same draft classes forest Whitley who the Astros took like, I don't know ten spots after us, which really I'm sure infuriates a lot of people salt. I'm not so worried about it. Because I yeah. There could be I mean, I love forest Whitley as a prospect. But but manning has absolutely monster curve ball. He's got a low spin fastball that he can run up to ninety eight. And I don't think he's he's max. Out his his physical projection yet, he's the guy who wouldn't surprise me to pretty easily sit like ninety eight ninety nine as he kind of comes into his full maturity as a pitcher so and the command took big strides last year late in the season. We started seeing a pretty darn good change up as well that played well with that extension that he's got and the hitters having to be ready to time that monster, you know, bowling ball of a singer. He's throwing so yeah. I mean, that's the guy. I really like. And like we've said desperate or Dez Cameron is previous Jake Rogers like those those guys with Casey is included that five guys like I feel very very strong about that group that they were going to at least give us like five average to slightly better players what the Tigers are are going to lack is that star bat, and that's going to be the you know, or two and that's going to be the focus on. That's what they hopefully can find in the draft and hopefully find in the trade in the next and the next year or so, but the passivity. They've kind of had and the fact that they don't really seem like they want to spend much money anytime in the near future. You never know. They could turn on a dime and change their mind. But that's that's why it was it was really cata painful to watch Manny Machado be out there. You know, you just don't ever get a guy who can play shortstop whose twenty six year old who who's a monster at play and hits free agency. It just doesn't ever happen that it was like that. That's the guy the Tigers need, and they're never gonna find that in free agency. Again, the odds of someone like that to show up in free agency and two or three years. I just don't really see it. Carlos Correa is not really quite that player. We'll see, you know, neither Zander Bogart's, and those guys will be older older than that when they hit free agency. So those opportunities don't come along that often, and they kind of let let that one go. And I think you know, that that is going to be the crux of the issue is those couple positions up the middle where the Tigers are really going to have to figure something out, and you know, around that is probably going to revolve rebuild because pitching a fragile commodity. But the Tigers do have enough of it. I I really liked the Tigers pitching. We haven't even mentioned some of the younger arms that they've got coming up beyond that. Yeah. You know, that that should should support them and hopefully in the future allow them to spend on you know, on position player or position players in free agency and kind of put the final final touches on this thing. It's just, you know, can they bridge that gap to the point where there really are just like a couple of moves left to make and we will have to see so tell everybody where they can find your work who you are in worthy can find you on social media. Hi, guys. My name is Brandon day. I you can find my work at bless. You boys dot com. Most f- writer in editor there, and we cover, you know, the Tigers, you know, from the from the draft from the farm system international signings all the way to the major league level. We try to balance it out between being kind of a heavily sabre oriented group of analysts that we've got. But we also try to cater to like fans who just want to enjoy the game. We don't judge everybody should enjoy baseball. However, they want to at any level. So we try to keep that in mind. You can find me as well and Twitter at fiscal oral seventy four and we do run a podcast that I'm the host of the view IB podcast. We just put out a new episode yesterday, and you can find that on our front page, and you can also find that on on our Twitter feeds as well. So if you're interested in the Detroit Tigers, and who wouldn't be come check it out. The podcast. You just heard was made using anchor ever thought about making your own podcast anchor. Makes it really easy for anyone to get started. It's a one stop shop for recording hosting and distributing fat casts. Best of all, it's one hundred percent free. Sign up now at anchor dot FM slash new. That's anchor dot F M slash new to get started.

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Your Guide To The Detroit Tigers' 2019 Opening Day Both On And Off The Field

Daily Detroit

20:55 min | 2 years ago

Your Guide To The Detroit Tigers' 2019 Opening Day Both On And Off The Field

"Happy Monday comrades. It's April first twenty nineteen. And this is your daily Detroit. I'm spend Gustafsen. And I'm Jerry stays today. We're talking about the Detroit Tigers and opening day. Opening day is basically a holiday in Detroit. And we thought we'd give you a preview of both the upcoming season and the festivities. I we'll talk about the team and their prospects ahead of Detroit's home opener. Chris Brown from the lockdown Tigers podcast called in to preview. The twenty nineteen campaign second, we'll talk fun. If you're partaking of the revelry on Thursday, our man about town devil Riley has some picks. What's great about these? Even if you're not going downtown or cutting out work early on Thursday to hop into the fun. You can check out these places most times before or after games. But I word from a sponsor today's episode is brought to you in part by our friends at my low digital Milo digital is a full service digital marketing agency that engineers quality results through data an innovative strap. Digi's? Learn more at Milo Detroit dot com. Joining us to size up the Detroit Tigers two thousand nineteen edition is Chris Brown. He's host of locked on Tigers, which is part of the locked on podcast network. Chris also writes for Tykes town, which focuses on the Tigers minor leagues. Chris welcome to daily Detroit. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks so much for having. Absolutely. All right. So the Tigers have the first series in the books against Toronto. They have they split with the Blue Jays two games apiece. Both of Detroit's wins came in extra innings, but they scored exactly zero runs in the two losses. What did we learn about Detroit of from the first four games? Anything surprise you or stand out? Yeah. It was a little bit. Opposite of what I expected this year this year, expect pitching to be pretty bad in their offense to be okay. And it was just not the case this weekend. They're pitching was was actually really good. But their offense was abysmal in. I don't I don't know if we actually learned that's the way it's going to be hard to judge anything on four games. Right. Yeah. But early indications was weren't great. I I kind of skeptical. I think maybe some of that was just coming right back from spring training and not really the hitter is not being up to speed still. But I don't know. We'll see. So let's talk about the pitching staff. First of all the Tigers have lost. I believe for the season Michael Fulmer right to a bad pitching elbow. Yeah. Yeah. He tours partial partial Taylor tariff, one of ligaments in his elbow. So they're gonna they had the surgery already. He's out for at least a year probably more like next July is a good time to think of him coming back. What's the rest of the rotation? Look like. Well, now, they've got Jordan Zimmermann who they paid a lot of money to the other what's three years ago. And he actually had a great first start of the behind him is Tyson Ross who they signed this off season and Matt Moore they also signed this off season. And then Matthew Boyd who they acquired around the same time as Michael Fulmer. And then Spencer Turnball who is they brought him up from the minor leagues. Not familiar names. I think Tigers fans there's not a lot of talent there either. You could squint in something's ago. Right. Like with Zimmerman had a great start. I said Matt Moore had a great start which was kind of unexpected. But I as a whole I think it's going to be kind of a down unit for the team this year. What about on the offense of production? Where are Tigers gonna get hits and runs from you think? Well, I think the the top lineup is actually, okay. They still Miguel Cabrera is back. He hasn't done any real damage in the regular season yet in adult his, you know, MVP level Cabrera, but he looks pretty good. And I think he'll he'll be the driving force of the offense again this year. But Nicosia Knauss is coming off the best year of his career. He's he's back. And then I kind of expect better things from J mckendall areo this year he got off to a really hot start last year. They're third baseman Jim era and kind of falter down the stretch, and he just had on Sunday at a five hit game, which was a new career a career high. I wouldn't expect that every game, of course. But so I think those three will help and Kristen Stewart is a guy that brought up from the minors at the in the last year. And it's still too early to tell what kind of major league is going to be. But he's got a lot of power and in the minors. He showed a lot of patients. So he could be another solid offense into feast there. But yes, really just four or five guys. And then the bottom line of looks pretty grim. Lots of new names on this year's roster any of them. I mean, you mentioned Kristen Stewart anybody else who you think might be bright lights people. You might want to watch keep an eye on. Well, the government of their catcher, James McCann. They didn't send him an offer. And they brought up Grayson Greiner who I don't think he's gonna blow people away with his offense of production this year, this it is kind of know where he's he will be the tallest regular catcher in major league history. He's six foot six, but he normally that's not a good thing. Because you kind of in the way of the fire, but he manages to get pretty low back there. And he sees a really solid defender. But that's you know, casualties. I don't think they're gonna pick up on that too much in he'll be lucky to hit like two fifty this year. So yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's not a ton at least to start the year. There's not a ton of young exciting hitters aside from Ken Larry Stewart. We may see a few later in the season in the likes of das- Cameron. But it's tough to say obviously, very early. So everything is speculative at this point. But the Tigers are still in the middle of kind of rebuilding mode and everything. Do they have pieces, you know, that they could offer as trade bait to try to get better. Or are they sort of not even really thinking in those terms right now? You know, I I'm sure they would still like to trade nNcholas casinos. They were trying to train them all off season. And they never got a deal to their liking and beyond that, though, they really don't have much in the way of trade ships anymore. They traded their big ones in JD Martinez than Justin Verlander, and then just enough to in there. I think they were kind of hoping that if Michael Fulmer had a really good year that they could either flip him for a nice package of prospects. Or maybe you know, count on him to be the centerpiece of the next contender? But that kind of went down the down the drain with his injury. So aside from costano suit, it's possible. Matthew Boyd has a good year, and they could trade him. And then the two guys they signed in the offseason the pitchers Tyson Ross met more, I think they're really hoping they can get good. I. Half out of those guys and then trade them, but I'm a little bit skeptical that will happen to in two so far long season to go. Obviously are are you making any kind of projections. Like what how will the Tigers fair this year? Yeah. I think they're going to win about sixty eight games, which is four games better than last year. But still not very good. It's the they will be in contention for last place in the division. Again. It's not a good division. At all. The royals are also rebuilding the White Sox or maybe a step of head of the Tigers in there rebuild. But you got three teams that aren't really trying in the division upper sixties in terms of wins. But it could go five wins either way just based on the lack of quality in the division who does that leave to contend for the central division. Then you think well most people are picking the Indians. Just because there have the strength of a really good pitching staff and to superstars in the field. But they enough they didn't really do much that made. It seem like they're trying this year either. They're kind of just coasting on their good team from last year and the twins have a decent shot it making a run at it this year, they have they actually were trying and they have some prospects. They might be able to bring up later in the year. But it's basically a race between those team. So it sounds like from you know, from a sporting perspective kind of a home season for the Tigers. You know, what's your pitch to people for why should shell out and go down to commerical part to take chicken the ball games? I mean, you try to good new snacks at the stadium. It's always that's the thing. You know baseball. I think is the most. I mean, obviously, I'm a huge baseball fan, but baseball is the most enjoyable spectator sport because you can kind of go and not necessarily even pay attention that much. It's the games leisurely enough that you can, you know, pay attention for one batter and then wait two minutes into the ball in play. But and really even when we're talking about if you really just concerned about them winning or losing you still have even with the worst higher. Steve you've got like a forty percent chance that you're gonna see a wins. So those ads are not all that bad. And then when they're really good you've only got like a sixty percent chance they're going to win. So I think it's a good time to go down there. And just enjoy the sights and the sounds and the smells. It's it's a very sensory game to me. Chris Brown is host of locked on Tigers daily show part of the locked on podcast network. Chris thanks so much for coming on the show in breaking down the team forces. You're absolutely for having me. Many. Over a couple of coffees on after sunny afternoon here, I am with devil Riley. He is our man about town. Joining us in the Detroit shipping company studios for a chat. Devon, how are you today? Feeling great year. Well, it's almost opening day. And that is an exciting time in Detroit. It is basically a holiday in this town it it's it's one of the truly Detroit holidays. I'd say, you know, I think that people who haven't kind of lived or outside and other cities don't realize like this is a special thing in Detroit. You know, this isn't a every every MLB city has an opening day with this much pageantry and fanfare, it's very rare. I mean, we're in the we're in the same category as like a Boston or Chicago or a Saint Louis who really do their opening days big not everywhere does that. Well, and I note all those tea although cities have had teams for quite a long time. Yeah. This is this is obviously the opening day festivities for Detroit. Co back, you know as much as. As far as any of our traditions. Really? So I think we'll break this conversation into two parts. I think I I wanna talk about some of the fun places to go around town. There are plenty of venues around Detroit that will be flinging their doors open for opening day. But Devon, I think we wanted to take a minute and focus on a few that will be the most fun or the most entertaining, the ones that will bring the biggest value for your buck. Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's a mix of some some new offerings and some some classic ones that the those that come down here annually for opening day or for me with. So, you know, one of the ones gotta throw out. There is Nancy whiskeys. That's the classic right. Oh, of course. So Nancy whiskies in north cork town. I guess you'd call it. Yeah. I think it's officially north cork town. Yeah. Harrison street, right? The only bar in north cork down. Really? I think you're right. Yeah. Northbound vary deliberate about not having a lot of commercial development. So Nancy whiskey was kind of grandfathered our grandmother in there as it were. So. That's a classic as we were talking before the way, I said, it was you know, Nancy was he's going to have the real die hard fans. The people who remember the eighty four championship the people who were there for the eighty four championship in the stands. That's your crowded, Nancy whiskies. It'll be great one great things about Nancy whiskies two is it. It's one of the oldest bars in the city. I mean, it's contested which bar is the oldest many point to to weigh in. That's kind of where I lean. But it is a great time. There is the patio out back. They always tend to have all the beers ready to go. It's not a fancy place per se. This is not the kind of place where you were going to order, a foreign, greedy, and cocktail. No, no. But there's there have plenty of whiskey as the name might suggest, and you know, it's opening day. So you should you should be okay. With your lights your Miller lite, send your shots Tullamore do which they have plenty of so first we talked about Knoller place. Let's talk about a newer place right here at the Detroit. Shipping company is a new entrant into the opening day game. That's opening up actually at eight AM. And thing about that is that there is no cover on this and they have an option for parking spots. If you're coming in from outside of downtown somewhere to park that kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, no cover is rare for some of these big parties as as you'll see her as we'll talk about a lot of them. Do have covers the fact they have no covers great is planning to places to get to get a drink from. It's a big open area. You know, you might wanna shy away from the small kind of tiny bars and opening day because they're going to be packed Ford for deep at the rail trying to get a drink so place like the shipping container here. I'm you'll probably take be able to take advantage of having a much more kind of open environment to grab drink big TV's. They'll have the game on it should be a great place in the shuttle's make it perfect to kind of shoot back downtown. If you if you wanna have that way. What do you think of one of the places that we recently talked about on the show the brakeman is a new opening day entrant? I think the Bruins gonna do gonna do just fine on opening day. You know, it's a pretty large space. They do the whole beer token concept thing, which is interesting. They don't have a huge selection of beers. So don't go there again thinking, you're gonna get a great. Election of beers as eight on tap. They don't really have a cocktail menu. They don't really have any wine. So it's pretty straightforward. But they do have games they've got beer pong. They've got they've got the shuffleboard games. It's definitely going to be a lively atmosphere, and it will definitely attract a good crowd for opening day. So that'll be that'll be a new one to to look out for a couple of your favorites. So, you know, I always love the town pump. Which for those of you who may not close recently. It did close recently and actually opened up just across the street. So if you know the area the old Centaur bar, which was just across the street has now been reincarnated as the town pump. So Tom up his back in business. They always have a great party. They get the tenth out there. So Tom pump has always been a favorite of mine checkout. If the weather improves a little bit on what it's looking like, it's gonna be fifties rise what we're thinking top forty album forties, lower fifties. Let's let's hope let's hope for fifty fifty the magic number to try and hit. But if we can get there, you know, they always do. The the big party in grand circus park to their tents. There's music there's DJ's all day long on that's always cool to to stroll on through. Can you could find your way over to places like queens of TV? So you wanna go there before the game? It's a great spot. You know, you've also got the belt that they have now. So the skip standby will be open. So I'm sure a lot of people will take to the belt. That's nearby. Comerica. You can walk there. Skip is really cool too. Because it opens out into that alleyway. And it's just a great party experience where you can wander in have drink do your thing. And then move onto another stop if you wanted to. Yeah. Absolutely. It makes it makes for a great stop. If you're especially that opening day, you most people like to kind of bounce around different places. So it kind of helps you do that. Of course, hockey town is always kind of a beacon on opening day. The lion out there starts like before nine AM, possibly probably I've been there at nine AM and waited in line racy to me. I'm not sure, but I'm not a wait in line kind of guy to get there early. Enough. You don't have to. But but yeah. Hockey town is three levels four levels. Actually, I think it's huge a huge place. They do have a cover. So I think the idea would be to get there early because they will have a cover at hockey town. I've saw that forced her galley, which is a newcomer is doing doing some opening day festivities. So there, you know, big dining hall space. They've got a huge bar big kind of U shaped bar. So that that'll be a good one check out. How do you like fourth street in general? I like it. I think that you know, they've got the four the four food concepts. I would imagine they're going to switch those out often. I think the idea there we've got a good mix of different types of foods. And then they recently launched the bar concept. So when I launched it with just just a long bar, which was cool. But now it has a personality has a it's called magpie. So it has its own cocktail menu, interesting drinks. So they're they're trying to as deejays on the weekends. So they're trying to bring more of a kind of a personality to that. That's base. I like that you need something in that area that kind of caters to both the lunch crowd and after work drinks crowd. One of the things. I have learned reveling for opening day at least in the past. Is it sometimes food can be hard thing to get a hold of for sure, especially as it gets later in the day, and you want the food more. But it's also harder to come by. So moods which recently opened there on library street. I believe by the Detroit public library. It's on the other side of the belt. They're actually doing five dollar grab and go slices, and they have beer and wine and things like that too. But I like the idea that there might be a few more windows where you can just grab something head out the door keep on your keep on your way and keep the party going. That's the type situation you're gonna find yourself on. I'm sure on opening day is the day Jags on you wanna grab a slice. You wanna get some food? Mutism would be a great place to do that shout out to slices as well on what great they don't have booze. But if they want a better value, you can hit slices and you get a really good deal so shot up to slice local pizzeria. So yeah, no, you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna wanna try and Chow Chow down some food as it gets later on and founders also. Has tons of food tons of space. They got the heat. The heat lamps are not the heat lamps, actually, the fire and the heat lamps. You can stay warm on the founders patio, and they're going to have they're gonna has moved vents have music all day your specials. So we've talked about a few different places to hang out at that. We like, but we're both people who live in the city. So as much as we love all of the attention folks coming downtown. There's also kind of a not so fun side about opening day, isn't there? Yeah. I mean, there can be it's it's a huge party in downtown Detroit. Which is fun. That's great. It's just important for people to remember that people also live there too. And so some people kind of pack up and go home or stumble their way out of town. You don't wanna you don't wanna trash the city and your way out. So we I think both of us would kindly ask people to respect. Nobody. If you kind of general rules of opening day, the first being not to trash the streets. Oh, that's an important one and have respect the same respect for the town as you would your own neighborhood. And I say this personally as at one time, I. Found someone literally urinating on my front door. Yes, I've seen multiple acts of public urination on opening day. So that that that happens on fortunately quite frequently. But don't do that. Don't be that guy. Don't be. Yeah. So that's the obvious one. Right. I mean, I'd like to even point out some some simple more subtle ones. Like cutting in line in the bathroom the way the bathrooms are set up on opening day. There's lines everywhere. That's a cardinal sin cutting in line at the bathroom for opening day. Because everybody's gotta go you're ninety more important parking legally. I mean parking down. Here is is is no joke now forty five dollar ticket six hundred fifty dollar ticket if you're parking on the queue line rails. Do a little bit of planning. You don't have to worry about parking that much. We've talked about the Detroit shipping company. No, there's other lots you can pre reserve. And then the other thing to think about if you're going to be coming down here parking would be really expensive. Anyway, maybe you should think about doing like light rideshare like Uber or lift. Absolutely. I would I would highly highly suggest doing a ride share. I mean of. Course, you can kinda have Didi to come down here. But you know, you're better off just doing the rideshare option, and you don't have to worry about that. Well, and a cool little promotion the folks over wall side windows, if you do the co code wall side twenty nineteen two zero one nine and now we don't get anything from this. We're just in this because it's it's good news. It's good information. Have they will pay for half of your ride, which is pretty sweet half of your right on the way home. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, that's that's a great thing to take advantage of you know, there's gonna be there's gonna be a lot of kind of mayhem in the street. So the MO the more you can avoid that is probably better and make sure you follow the game. I think some people just get caught from the opening day and forget what we're really down here for and that's to watch the Tigers play baseball. They've already had a couple of wins. So this is going to be exciting actually five hundred right now. Yeah. Exactly. So it's it's a little bit different than yours past. Well, the last couple of years is we're coming in with you know, already a couple of wins under our belt. So there's a little bit of momentum. So let's not forget that this is this is the baseball game. And make sure you watch I know people who are either in their beds or in on the. Lacked out on the floor somewhere before the game gain even starts, and you know, that's the way to winning gay. All right friends. Thanks so much for listening to daily Detroit. Like our show be sure to tell a friend to help us. Push Detroit's conversation forward. I'm spend Gus. And I'm Jerry stays take care of each other. And we'll see you around Detroit. You're listening to the podcast Detroit network. Visit WWW dot podcast Detroit dot com for more information.

Detroit Tigers Detroit Detroit Tigers Chris Brown baseball Milo Detroit Tyson Ross Matthew Boyd Michael Fulmer Nancy whiskies Jerry Blue Jays Kristen Stewart Toronto Gustafsen Riley Digi Jordan Zimmermann
Effectively Wild Episode 1376: Root, Root, Root for the Run Differential

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:10:23 hr | 2 years ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1376: Root, Root, Root for the Run Differential

"Low end welcome to episode thirteen seventy six effectively wild a baseball podcast from Penn graphs, presented by our patriots Porter's. I in Penn Lindberg of the ringer joined by Miller of ESPN Sam, I Chris sale had seventeen strikeouts through seven innings and records. Did you get your hopes up to me the process of writing about twenty one K outings has really helped me to route more efficiently? I think because it focused my attention. And I think it was the play index that we did probably in the episode nine hundred or so that really did the key thing is, of course pitches. You don't have twenty seven ounce to work with necessarily, and you don't need twenty-seven outs necessarily, but you do have something like one hundred twenty pitches with maybe a little bit of margin on either side, and so you basically need to be pitching it six pitches per strikeout to. Have a reasonable chance in sale had eight strikeouts through three innings with forty seven pitches, which is on pace and I was sitting in a piano lesson waiting room and couldn't tweet out an alert at that point. But a few minutes later, he had like seven pitch at bat against Charlie Blackmon who I think grounded out after foul tipping a pitch into an out of a mitt. And at that point, then it became a sort of a the strain and then the next batter, I think had like a five or six pitch at that didn't strike out, and that was pretty much it. I quit. I quit watching. I mean I didn't quit watching, but I quit considering a chase. It was no longer a chase in my opinion, so they took him out after hundred eight pitches and seven innings and then the bullpen blew the game. They went text innings, so perhaps, they regretted it, but perhaps not because their priority is keeping Chris sale healthy. And it looks like Chris sale is good. And it looks like the Red Sox are good of the early season. Worries about both the. This things not being true. Have eased up somewhat Chris, as less couple starts have had pretty extrordinary strikeout at walk yet. Yeah. So I know his velocities, not all the way back, but he's making it work. He I mean the theoretically, he could have struck out the next four batters on twelve pitches and done it. But I mean that's very unlikely in he, he strange to say of guy who had seventeen strikeouts in no walks, but he wasn't even leading the time. Right. And so made sense in the moment to pull them after one hundred eight pitches. Twenty was was was a reasonable thing. If if you thought twenty is worth chasing than maybe you keep him in for one hundred twenty two pitches 'cause decent Jhansi do that. But I don't think twenty is worth chasing. I'm not impressed by twenty I only want twenty one. So I thought every everybody behaved more or less prominently here. All right. You have any better. I just want to correct something. My process of determining whether Dylan Floro had been good. Was somewhat misinformed Dylan Floro, did not that twice against John Ryan. Murphy this year he batted last year against Erik Kratz. So he was in that article, but he was not the pitcher that I had been thinking of, I believe Brock Stewart was that pitcher Brock Stewart was not on our list because he has only played three games for the dodgers in which he gave up eight runs. And so just just to clarify that. I think I think, in every single one of my processes, I said, at least one untruth, which is kind of what's going to happen, when you're trying to remember what a middle reliever did in the fourth game of the season to try to do something that you don't actually know about a pitcher, who you know, almost nothing about, but mostly true stuff and Dylan floor. I think the process, more or less still accurate. Anyway. Dylan floro. Yeah. So I brought this up on the ringer Moby show yester. Today, but I have to bring it up again, I talked to Michael Barone about how bad the Marlins have been. They've been really historically terrible thus far and I focused physically on their offense, which has been horrendous. And then after we did that segment, the Marlins went out and got shut out by the race. So now the numbers are even worse than they were. When I talked about it yesterday. The Marlins as a team our ten in the thirty that is, of course, to fifty winning percentage, which puts them on pace for forty one wins, if you round up and according to their run differential way are, if you round up from forty point two five forty point five rate would be we would they would do when half of two gates. That's right. So, yeah. Yeah. So that, that gets into the metaphysical question of whether point five should round up around down. Yes of not share. But they're run differential is that of a nine thirty one team which is that's two twenty five winning percentage. That would be a third. Eighty six when TV and that does round down. So they've been really bad, and that's not surprising because they're the Marlins in they're playing in a division where the other teams are all competitive in our beating up on the Marlins all year but they're starting rotation is actually pretty credible. They're, they're pretty good. They've got Pablo Lopez and they've got Jose Arena and they've got other guys I'm forgetting right now Caleb. Smith is it's maybe the best of the bunch, he's been pretty good this year but beyond that, it's a sorry group and the bullpen has been a disaster. But the offense right now, the Marlins as a team are hitting to eighteen to eighty one three. Oh, seven they have twenty four home runs, which is by far the fewest in the league and that gives them a sixty four WRC plus which put that into perspective, the all-time worst team WC plus in a full season in baseball's modern era back to nineteen one is the nineteen twenty posts. Sale athletics, who had sixty seven WRC plus, so right now the Marlins through a quarter of the season or so have had, what would be the worst offense ever in a full season. Of course, it is easy to be terrible or great over quarter of a season or easier. If you look at the top of that all time, leaderboard, the two thousand eighteen Astros with a one thirty five WRC plus would be the best offense ever, which is not that inconceivable, given that the two thousand seventeen World Series, winning Astras had, I think the fourth best defense of all time by that measure, the, the best other than the Ruth, Gehrig Yankees. So the esters are good. The Marlins are incredibly inept and I don't know if it's going to get much better from here, their best hitter, I think by far so far there really only above average hitter. Is Neil Walker, and it just falls off from there. And it can we can we talk about their second best header because they have. Well, they have our own twenty two players have batted, at least once twenty two okay, five of those are pitchers, so, but I'm going to include them because including them can only benefit them and I wanna give them the benefit of that. So twenty two hitters with at least one plate appearance. The second best hitter in any number of appearances has a three forty four slugging percentage and a sorry, three forty two slugging percentage and a six eighty three. Oh, PS. That is backup catcher, Chad. Wallich. So he's the second best the six eighty three. Oh, PS, and that's bad. It's really bad. Is there any I mean obviously, you'd expect someone to be better than that. But like, I don't know who you'd expect to be good like who is actually the second best hitter on this team. Is it? It's probably Castro or Brian Anderson. Brian Anderson was good last year. Yeah. Gosh, it's just it's not a good team and it's not a good Kupa hitters and the ones who are kind of good may be traded at some point, like Neil Walker go somewhere. And if Castro or I don't know, Granderson recovers at some point, maybe they would go somewhere. So don't see it getting better. I mean, I don't know that they have prospects who are ready right now to make a major difference. Like they started the season with Lewis Brinson again, who was terrible again and was sent down. So I don't know that help is really on the way. And yeah, it's, it's not going to get better than the so the Marlins generally have been something of light hunt. Baseball and have been very hard on their fans who are still sticking with them. And I don't think it's good that the Marlins are this terrible. But it is a someone who is at least captivated by extremes and historic performances and novelty. This is going to give like last year's Oriole. So if a run for their money when it comes to the worst teams we've seen in some time, it's going to be a long season for the Marlins, and it's not a particularly fun team either. It's not like a bad fun team beyond some of those starting pitchers. I mentioned so sorry Marlins fans. But this is gonna be replacement level sub replacement level will see how low they can go. Yeah. Right, wealth. That might be the last time we talked about the Marlins for a while now. So just want to check in on them, we're going to do some emails today and presumably a stat blast. So. Yeah. So I will start this with a question from Henry Clark, patriots supporter, who was nice enough to mail me, eight nineteen Fifty-three, Ned, Garver tops card this week. That is not why I'm answering his question. Although thank you, Henry. That was very kind. He says lest Friday may tenth Jack Petersen. Hit a home run. His second of the game that stat cast recorded as having exit lusty of one hundred thirteen. Point seven mouse brower Anna on Changle of twenty two degrees. This home run travel to reported distance of four hundred two feet that same night. Ronald kunia junior hit a home run. That stat cast recorded as having exit lusty of one hundred twelve point seven miles per prior, so one miles per hour, less and a launch angle of Twenty-one degrees, want greet less nearly identical in exit lusty launch angle to Peterson's bomb. But this home run travel to report a distance of four hundred sixty six feet. I am about as far from being a physicist, as you can be, and still be a functioning member of society. But none of what I can remember or confined about projectile distances and vectors and stuff can explain almost sixteen percent disparity in the flight paths of two such similar projectiles Peterson pulled his to right in Los Angeles and kunia hit his to center in Arizona. But unless the Diamondbacks turned off the humidor, and had a bunch of jet engines blowing straightaway, the different seems hard to account for can you please take a minute to explain the forces that so radically altered, the flights of such seemingly similar balls? I assume. Environmental factors have an impact, but maybe spend or maybe the ball's juiced inconsistently. And if distance is only indirectly linked to exit Leo, and launch angle. Are they really the best measures we could use for bad at balls? So I did ask someone about this and have an answer from him. But you care to hazard, a guess, or hypothesis. No all all mention. Yes. So, yes. The answer to that. I'll mention two things one is that in the baseball prospectus book extra innings from maybe eight years ago or so. Jay Jaffe road along look at the home run era of the late nineties and early two thousand and whether steroids could explain it and he talks a lot about ball composition and the range of acceptable. Baseball's within majorly. Baseball's regulations or standards that they give to manufacturers and I don't remember speaking off the top of my head now. So I'm not going to get into specifics. And you probably since you've researched this all and since we all have read a lot more about it since then we all know a little bit more about this now. But the I just remember the gap between what a ball at the low rain, low end of the range, and all the high end of the range, which are both they both could theoretically be used in the same baseball game of me radically it was mass. Like way, more than you would think like I want to say it was thirty. Yeah. Yeah. And so that has been something that I occasionally think about with, with wonderment thinking how much of the sport that we think we're seeing is a variation within the balls, but mostly I have to suppress that memory because I assume that it's a not the case. Well, is that it's not the case that there is that much variation, particularly within batches or within seasons, and it would be kind of the fun of that idea wears off quickly. If you start wondering about it pretty early if it's if it's not true. So that's one hot hypothesis that it's that it's the whatever we're calling that the second one, which I'm almost certain is wrong. But if you just think about what a I mean a baseball traveling straight four hundred feet travels. Well, maybe it goes, you know, sixty five feet high. And so it's traveling in a line four hundred feet, but also sixty. Five feet high so up in the down. And then there's a way that you could calculate how many feed it actually travel, right? Like think about planes that travel from here to Japan. They don't go straight across the latitude, because you end up having to travel farther than if you go up to the North Pole and then back down. Right. That or not to the North Pole but up to a higher latitude because you're not you're not traveling as much around the, the sphere of the earth zone. I don't know if that's applicable here. But I think about the actual distance traveled of a four hundred foot baseball is not four hundred feet in space. It's, it's like I don't know hundred ten feet or something like that, right up and then down and then out. And if you add a third dimension to that of a ball, that is hooking or slicing it travels, it has to travel even farther in real terms to get to four hundred feet. It has to go up and over and out and so to travel, four hundred feet if you had like a frisbees hook on it than it. Would have to travel, maybe, you know, hypothetically light six hundred feet or something like that. And so, in theory, you might think that a ball that goes straight would travel further with the same energy than a ball that hooks or slices that has the same energy would travel from home plate right now. That's complicated by the effects of backspin and topspin in loft and things that I don't really know much better than Henry does. But I that would be the question. I would ask a physicist, if that could explain something well, I have has to physicist and launch angle and exit. Plus, the tells you the vertical ankle and tells you how hard it was hit. It does not tell you where on the field the spray angle, the horizontal angle, and that can be important. So I sent this question to David Kagan, who's a physics professor at CS you Chico? He writes a big twist in this podcast. You send it to not Alan. Nathan, right. Yeah, we got a couple of physicists, we can call on, but David Kagan he writes for the hardball times frequently about the physics baseball. So he says what a wonderful question to answer it. We could go through the usual suspects, like elevation and weather. It was eighty three degrees at game time in Phoenix, but only sixty three degrees in LA. However, the higher temperature on the explains. A paltry five feet of the difference. The wind might be a factor, and indeed, the roof was open that day in Arizona win was thirteen miles per hour. But the stadium is very tall. Even with the roof off. So there isn't enough wind inside to affect the flight of the ball, much in southern California. It was still evening with the gentlest breeze of only two miles per hour at most we're looking at perhaps another five feet. The humidity at game time was only forty percent at chase field. What was around seventy percent at town? But this would at best explained on the single lousy foot of the difference next, the elevations difference Phoenix's thousand eighty two feet while the bar park in LA is up on a hill. Two hundred sixty seven feet above sea level. This is. Another minor affect for feet. And of course, chase field has humidor as David Kagan wrote about recently for the time. So it seems that elevations and whether or not the culprits. Well, what does explain the sixty three foot difference between the two homers? The spin on the ball a kunia smack the ball, just to the left of center field while Peterson launched his ball down the right field line. Every good outfielder knows that balls. Hit down the line tend to veer off toward fell territory while balls hit towards center. Don't fade as much this is all due to the fact that the ball bet collision imparts almost no side, spin to the ball when the bat is level and perpendicular to the trajectory of the incoming pitch. However, if the baton ball, collide when the bat is not perpendicular and level side spinnakers, there's more side, spin when the policy hit further away from centerfield estimating the spray angle off the bat and putting in all the weather elevation spin. My calculations give four hundred sixty four feet for kunas Homer and four hundred two feet for Peterson's. So we aren't looking at some stat cast data era line. Peter. Hit a slice while kunia. Drove it right down the fairway. I get it right. I think so more or less. He didn't mention planes, flying over the Arctic circle or anything, but I think you kinda did. So the, the concept would be that they did travel roughly the same distance, just not in Peterson's was not in one direction it, I think, well, okay. So more of its energy, moving laterally. That's what I said. So if that's. That's. I don't know if it's that the difference between the spin though. I mean, anecdotally at least backspin will get you more carry and topspin will sort of push the ball down. So I don't know that yet talking about if I think that is largely what we're talking about. Okay. 'cause Peterson pulled it. Yes. All right. Yeah. Was okay. Unsatisfying. Okay. That's it. But yeah, I shouldn't be, we've got the answer to the question that I was interested. In hearing answered it would have been satisfying. If you had not asked me, I to put my own self on the life. Okay. Grant says last night, the Mariners seriously piled on some runs in the late innings against my Janke. This got me thinking, I already knew the game was over so in the long run all this affected was the team's run differential should I be rooting for the team to keep that number up. Certainly, you want your team to have the best run differential since. That's the name of the game at the same time, it felt weird to think about run differential as rooting category. Counter intuitively. I wondered if I should be rooting for the Yankees to win, but in a manner, which is Representative of the team's ability, so that they could be adequately assessed that felt silly and my mind started doing loops donate want players to overperform don't I root for over performance every day. What about how this affects the front office would actually want the team to underperform in order to incentivise Steinbrenner to better the team so long as? Underperformance didn't jeopardize the division that the Mariners do the Yankees a favor by getting Yankees Twitter. Riled up, of course. No data driven team is going to be duped by such basic measure, but you get the point should we be rooting for or against rub. Differential, does it matter. I have I have gone through much of this process before gone to some of those same places. It's a tricky one, isn't it? The other thing is that, that I feel like maybe a factor is that you want your players to be confident and feel like they're doing well. And so if a loss is baked in, or even a win is baked in, but they're coming off a four for five day, maybe that helps them maybe that's something that carries over. It's certainly to get away from the question of what is going to affect the future? What is going to be a cause of future goodness for your team simply as a as a fact, if you're rooting. So basically, you're you root for your team to win. But you also route for your team to be good, and that's kind of an ongoing process that takes place all all the time. You just like you want to be like, he want to be born to a team that is good or for that team to, to somehow be good. You're sorta stuck with them. And there's a luck factor as a fan of, like, do I have a good team? And it's kind of a constant like you're, you're always kind of assessing, whether it is a. Team. Or is not a good team in that affects your feelings about that team. And so if they have a good run differential, because they are actually good that seems like the sort of thing that would make you happy, regardless of whether it changes anything for the future. Right. Yeah. If that makes any sense at all. I mean, the nice thing about all this is that you rooting doesn't do anything, and so you don't actually have to worry that, that much about whether you're rooting wrong, I go through this, now I have through my life, I have gone through this a lot, where I have like maybe you turn on a gate. So my TV my parents TV. It used to be that you turn it on. I think this was how TV's all were you turn it on, and the audio would begin immediately, but the picture would take like like two and a half seconds. And so sometimes you'd have two and a half seconds of hearing action, but not knowing what team was was batting or who doing this also happens a lot when you turn on a game on the radio and you might pick it up mid. Play and the ball is in play or the pitch has been thrown, but you don't know who's batting and you end up rooting for those two and a half seconds for what turns out to be the wrong team and that feels terrible. That's a that's just an awful feeling. You feel like you've done like you are asked to do so little in this game as a fan and, you know you did the one thing you had to do wrong. It's on own-goal. Yeah. But the nice thing to remind yourself is that it doesn't matter like they don't know what you what is going on in your heart. And so, I think whatever feels comfortable for you, as a fan is, is probably safe that said, I root for run differential. I think that the there are there are some small cases that he makes that, it, it could be damaging if it gives a team may be an over inflated sense of themselves or vice versa. They might improv help hurt their ability to assess, but it probably doesn't hurt their ability to assess because the run differential is. The thing that they should probably be using to assess now it gets a little tricky if it's a seventeen to one game and Scott King is pitching land. It becomes totally in authentic baseball, and nothing that anybody in your lineup does is in any way, suggestive of their baseball talent. And then if they if you hang eight on Scott King Ray than that does affect your undifferentiation, it does affect your stats, and it can mislead people who are trying to assess how good the team is so that becomes a little bit of an issue. And then the question is, do you root for Scott King re to get in the game so that you can run up the run differential and feel good about yourself and people will think that you're like that you can win arguments with your friend, who's like mine teams better, in your mind, teams run differential, and like that's a fun argument. So I don't know that there's an exact answer. I think that probably different people have different comfort levels, but I do and always have rooted secondarily for run differential. If the game is is is done at the most basic level, if you're a fan and you're watching. A game through the lens of your phantom than you want your team to do. Well, it's always the happiest outcome is for your team to score and the other team, not to score. I guess at a certain point maybe the game is just so at a hand that you want it to end because you want to do something else, and there's something to be said for close games just from an entertainment standpoint. It's kind of more fun to watch a three two win than it is to watch a ten one win in most cases. And I think in the playoffs often when I used to really brute for teams I would like blow outs, actually because I would just get so nervous and it would cause so much anxiety for there to be a close game that actually mattered that I didn't really want it to be that close. But in general closest good. But you also want your team to do. Well, you wanna see your players do? Well, every little hit and run scored brings you some little dopamine bursts. So, yeah, of course you want that. And I think the fact that it then. Augurs well for the rest of the team and tells you something about the quality of that team. I think just adds to it. There's more value there. It's interesting because I've been thinking about this question the whole time as do still root for your team to score six runs when it's down by sixteen. But the I mean obviously the flip side is still refer your team to score six runs when they're up by sixteen and that. Yeah. Has all I love a big blow out. I mean, I've always wanted to see the biggest blowout possible without a doubt in any team in any sport that I'm rooting for. I love a blow out this also brings to mind because I like to see the stats I like to see stats. I like to wake up and see, like I like the aunt, to be the opposite of the Marlins experience when you open the daily paper has a nine year old and you scan your team's stats. You already know the record. But you look at their stats and you go is a good team like look at that bullpen. We'll get the bullpens only allowed three runs in the last week and a half. Like there's something to that, that is satisfying as a fan and you want that to be the case. There's also. Oh, reminds me of something that we have occasionally mentioned on this show, which someday, I'm going to write about. It's one of my favorite things about baseball history, which is that in the very old days. You batted in the bottom of the ninth, even if you were winning, and I've always wondered, what is that? What was that bottom of the ninth inning light? How was laid out and why did they do it because they were too dumb. The note is what was happening. Or did they get something out of it? And I think they did get something out of it. I think that they're the what we're watching is partly the suspense of competition. But partly the act of baseball played well. And you wanna see the guys that you like playing baseball. Well, regardless of the stakes because there's something aesthetically beautiful something impressive about every good baseball action that you see, no matter what this is this came up on a piece, I wrote a few years ago, about walk-off triples, which should be basically impossible, or should basically, never happen. Because if the winning run is scoring what are you doing going from second third or run cannot by definition possibly affect anything, and all you're doing is possibly getting thrown out in one of the theories, I had for why walkup triples happened is because players respect the aesthetic purity of baseball act done. Well, and so a walkup triple is essentially like in, in a way it's like the same thing it's stat padding after the outcome. Of the game is already certain, and I'm pro. Yeah, I am too. Maybe there's a point at which it cheapens things or you want almost mercy rule. But I don't know in the matrix. I don't think there is a mercy real zinc. You always want your team to pile on, probably because there's never such a gap between the best team. And the next best teams that it doesn't become fun to see that t- win if you had a situation where your team was the Astros. And the other teams were the Marlins, and you were just trouncing them every time out than sure maybe it wouldn't feel a special you wouldn't take as much pleasure. In racking up the score, but as it is all the teams are good. And there isn't that much separation. And when you can put a big number up, I think you pretty much always want your team to do that. I would be pro MARCY rule, Ben. Yeah. Probably yeah. I'm not pro mercy, though. I don't like teams. I don't like teams to quit trying. I liked the baseball in a blow out to be played at a non boring high level. And I don't like the unwritten rules that suggest. That you should quit trying to play like you always play. But yeah, a rule that said that a game that saw, you know, already got a ten run say differential in the seventh inning. Or later could end that seems like I mean man that seems perfectly finding only complication with that is that you kept serving alcohol until the very end. And now you've got this light DUI problem. But otherwise, I mean I like the mercy rule. I think that there'd be a lot of hot takes from talk radio. People complaining about the existence of mercy in the world. So maybe you'd wanna call it something else. Maybe you wanna just call it like a time efficiency, or like go we'd your garden rule or something like that. All right. Questioned from another Sam baseball is so rooted and math in hard numbers that when something happens that isn't based on those things. It's very interesting to me. I wanted to get your take on errors. They seem to be so cryptically decided as a fan. You watch the play. Listen to the guys in the booth debated. And then some random magic aegis comes out of the blue. Do you see MLB ever making an attempt to use more quantifiable data to resign errors if advanced defensive metrics evolved into a more dependable source could they be used, for example, all fly balls? Hit to the outfield with a catch probability of x percent or higher must be caught or it's an error, regardless of how the play looks as stemming from a Jamison tigon start a few weeks back where Palumbo missed abo- with, like an eighty percent catch probability, but it was still classified as hit and this is sort of in the same genre. As a question, we got from Everett who was upset about quality starts you just answered this one via Email his fantasy league counts quality starts, and he's upset when a pitcher records, what would be a quality start. He goes six innings with three earned runs or fewer. But then he blows the quality start after the fact and Everett wants to know whether that should still be a quality start whether you should be able to lose one after you have. One in both of these questions are in the category of sort of garbage stats that we're stuck with at this point because they've been around for a while and errors have been around since the beginning. And I know that I think what Henry Chadwick didn't like errors and was kind of up on what makes errors not so great from the very start. But we've been tracking earth's forever. And so the question is now that we know heirs are not that telling from an ethical standpoint, and we have better ways to assess the probability of the place should be made. Should you ditch errors should you keep recording airs the same way you always have just for historical continuity? Or should you change errors to be some more objective measurement of whether it actually was an error. I kind of come down on the side of just don't pay attention to bed steps when we have better stats, but don't necessarily change them, either, like, don't necessarily make the beds that into a. Good stat. If you already have good stats, personally, I would prefer to just keep the air the way we've always had it and not pay much attention to it because we still have an official scorer were still going to have that person up there. So sure. Have them rule on, whether it's an error not. But we all choose not really pay attention to what that person said, and we'll be looking at the arrest or UCR outs above average or whatever the future defensive metric of choices, of course, players are still gonna care about this stuff because it's their reputation on the line. And sometimes there's money at stake in our betray still, but that's all changing to an extent too and players are more and more often paid based on the actual underlying performance more so than those superficial stats. So do you think that there is a distinction that is useful for you to see made between a fielder who misplayed the ball who who fails to make a routine play and fielder who simply over the course of many games fails? To make a bunch of ninety five percent or like you know fifty percent plays like to is there something about a blooper a batch that needs to be categorized? Well, for a local purposes of not sure, but for descriptive purposes, I think so like even UCR for instance you can break it down into error runs and range runs. And so you can see guys who are good because they never flubbed a routine play. And you can have guys also who just make the extraordinary play. And maybe they do flood a routine play every now and then, so I would wanna know that, and maybe you'd want to know that just to know what the player should improve and work on. And how likely he is to improve like maybe it's easier to improve player who just bubbles balls. Right. Adam than it is to improve a player who just can't get two balls in the first place. So I think it's a worthwhile distinction. But in terms of value probably doesn't matter. What about just for you as a as part of your? Or knowledge of the story of a game or the story of a player season. Do you do? Find it interesting too. Like if there's a if a pitcher gives up six runs in inning. And they're all singles that, theoretically, are all the failure of the defense to be standing in the right place. In some cases might be the failure of the defense to have the preate range or to field balls that are difficult. But theoretically, playable versus like, well the shortstop threw the ball to the first basement and it simply clanked off his glove. Does that? Do you like to know the distinction between those two innings is that the same as asking I mean for a pitcher, if we have earned runs and unearned runs, and now you have stats that can tell you what a player shoulda done how a pitcher actually pitch. Just in terms of say the bed at ballsy allowed 'em how likely they were to become hits on average or just his strikeouts in walks and stripped, the defense out of it. I don't mind having your A and. Under runs and having those be separate categories, but I wouldn't want to go back to having that decide everything because I would still want to be able to tell how he actually pitched pendant of those things. So these are all things that I'd kind of liked being recorded. It's like win win loss record is something that we don't pay attention to anymore from an analytical perspective. And we don't even site it that much anymore, but it can be fun for trivia, and it can be fun to track the changes in the game. If you can see that suddenly no one's winning twenty games anymore that tells you something of how pitchers are being used not that you need that, that you could look at other ways to assess that, but I think it's nice just to be able to compare win loss. Records today to win loss records decades ago and see that okay? This is reflecting what starting pitcher was expected to be at that time and this time. And so, I wouldn't say toss out win loss records, don't don't record. But it's not like it's hard to do Hugh, just keep doing what you've always been doing. But you pay less attention to it, or you pay attention to it in a different way. Yeah. I, I, I like the Air's are I like that. There is a category for airs in theory. Like, if I were designing, if they didn't exist, I would propose it to me. There's something about the agreed justness of an air that feels like it's worth jotting down. Just like there's something about a home run robbery that I'm glad people count now that they don't just treat it as an out that, that sports info solutions is doing the work, right? Counted for good fielding plays in bed, fielding place. And it's kind of like errors, except it's Leeson theory, or rigorous and based on video review and comparisons players. So I'm glad that the clanked off the glove is somehow recorded in the annals. Now, I don't think that it should be used for anything else probably including ERA. I don't think that Yara even though I use the are instead set of runs allowed for everything. I don't know why. But I don't think that you are a that for the purposes of measuring the pitcher we should. Only make allowances for defense in a particular subset of plays that are not that different from a much larger subset of quite similar plays. In fact, so I would I would dump ER earned runs, I would dump airs from any sort of analysis. I heard a broadcast or the other day say that some team had been the worst team in the worst defense in baseball because they had the lowest feeling percentage and I just groaned and thought, wow still still saying things like that doesn't seem right to me. Right. So that's where I kinda come down is like, unfortunately, anytime you have a stat. It is going to be used in a way that grinds you, particularly when it's a stat that has a hundred and fifty year history and the game was for a long time into quite recently the most seen as the most important that. So it's a long process, doesn't bother me that much, but it does bother me a little bit. But I am glad that we count airs more than I'm glad that we count quality starts, by the way. Did you see 'em Abacha? Larry's. Tweet about two days ago. About the it was kinda like a you make the call sort of thing from a nineteen sixty six newspaper. No. Okay. I'm gonna read it and then you make the call. And then I'm gonna read you Emma's tweet above it. Which, I think, in fact, is the answer to this question that we should have just simply red and then saved all the time. But Francis wooden. Former Saint Joseph's high athlete told us about it in essence, it went like this, with a runner on second base and two outs. The batter hit a routine grounder to the shortstop, who feel that it cleanly the runner was in on route the third base with the crack of the bat, the shortstop became confused as to where the runner had been he moved toward second base tagged it and thought he had completed a force out to end the inning. Then he suddenly realized that there had been no one on first base when the ball was hit. So he quickly paid to first base by this time, the battery across the bag and was ruled safe. So what would you call it three options have been advanced? They. They are hit air and fielder's choice. Well, it certainly is an error of type. It's a mental error. But if he had bobbled it and failed to make that throw to first, then that would be counted as an air and in terms of the effect. And really also the reason it sort of the same thing. Right. So it's kinda historically. You haven't really counted mental errors says errors so much, and you also I mean, the problem with ariza's that, like, if a fielder touches the ball and drops it, it's an era, if he never touches. It even though it drops right next to him because he never saw it or something then it's, it's not an air. So in some ways errors strip out what the player was thinking, or his motive at times it's more about like the physical act. So maybe it's inconsistent with how heirs have usually been assessed but I'd call it an air. It's very odd. Because it so this shortstop the play was at first. I and he instead you could call it. He went and tagging but you could assume let's, let's just hypothetically say he tossed at the second and the second basement was there was, like, what I don't have anything to do with this. So that would have been the exact same thing as what he did. Right. Okay. So if the shortstop had fielded the ball and then turned thrown it to the left fielder that would be also the same thing throwing it to a place where there is no play at the expense of the outs that are there to be made. And I think then throwing it to the left fielder would definitely be called an air. And so why not throwing it traveling it? You know, locomotive it to second base, where there is also play would not equally be an air. This reminds me I've mentioned a couple of days ago that I'm a no hitter league with Mark Simon and Sarah wings van all that matters is how long a no hit bid survives. And so I pay a lot of attention to the first hit of games. And what they are what they look like, and I have this has really clarified something for me, which is that a ton of? Of hits are just so stupid. Like not like we all know that, like bloopers fall in and line drives get caught. But a ton of 'em are so stupid. They're just the stupidest place like so many hits are swinging. Buns pop-ups in no man's land that are like that. The shortstop is there. But then gets turned around and it falls like I'm talking like you're not gonna believe me Ben, but of all the hits and major league baseball eighty five percent. Are that are one of those things I just described. And then there's another category of this, which I've noticed I, I've seen two no hitters that these could be in the first inning, but they are no hitters broken up this year where the ball was into the first baseman the pitcher broke late, but got to the bag, you know, in time to beat the runner, but narrowly, an ETA full sprint and it's a very tricky play at that point. Right. That's the tough play. Whereas if he'd broken right away and gotten there in time to sort of slowdown angle into it. That's an easy play. And so. Both times the throw was dropped and an error was called instead of a hit whereas if the pitcher did not break at all. I think they would maybe call that a hit because now there's no pitch that or if he broke even later and didn't get there before the runner, like if he got there afoot behind the runner because he broke even later. That's also a hit. And so the, that's what I mean. When I say that like the difference between many hits and many heirs is almost indistinguishable, that's before you account for. Well, if you were standing one foot over which is totally an option than it wouldn't have been a hit. It would have been an air or vice versa, anyway. I think that the example that Emma gave to me is clearly in her the newspaper at the time, polled some scores some score, keepers and the consensus was air. But the consensus on Twitter seemed to be that it should be one of those other two anyway, to get to the what I was saying Emma sums this entire thing up which I will now read. Okay. Stumbled across this newspaper while looking for something totally unrelated. And in the space of five minutes, I've gone from I don't care to hit two fielder's choice to what is an air really. Yeah. That's kind of where every contemplation of errors leads is what isn't there, because that's what ficials scores have to decide every time. And they decided pretty inconsistently. So we ended up puzzling about this often. Yeah. All right. Stop last stab last. So we talked a couple of days ago, about homerun robberies and metro bloods findings that part of this seems to be that fielders are outfielders are playing much deeper in this deep. Fly ball home run era, which makes homerun robberies probably more possible, because you're able to get back and catch them. And if field is playing back deep lake that it also opens up possibilities for another one of the most exciting and expectations subverting plays in baseball, which is the hustle double. Right. If you're playing deep and ground ball goes through centerfield, and you got a hustler, and you, you lolly gagging, just a little bit. Then suddenly he's tearing around first base hustling, for a double. We all love hustle, double one of my favorite place in baseball though. I don't think that that's how hustle should be used. But anyway, I wondered if there are more hustle, doubles, this year than there have been in previous years. And so I looked at some. Stat Cass data. And before I tell you what I did, I would I'm curious to know how would you how would you look for this? How would you what would you do to try to find out how many hustle doubles, there are, and now Asli that aligns with my process? Gosh. No, I'm Blinken right now. All right. Well, here's what I did. And the goal, of course, is to capture as many hustle doubles as possible while, including as many non hustle, traditional doubles as possible. So I took a fairly narrow view of what I was gonna count. So I went to stat cast search and I quote, read doubles hit on ground balls to basically the middle two thirds of the field. So I'm taking out anything down the line down the lines. So I went from sixty degrees to sixty degrees. So that is basically two straight away left to straight away. Right. I think and so anything on the line is not going to count because that's a traditional double. So these are going to be ground balls up the mid. Oil, and then I also did a separate query for anything in the air up the middle that had a exit philosophy of eighty three miles per hour or less because that is almost certainly not going to be a ball that outfielder has to run back on. But rather that he has to run in on. I don't know if that's a good way of, of, of defining, these things, However, I can tell you that I watched, I don't know, maybe twenty of these and not one of them was not a hustle double every single one that I found was exactly what you think of is a hustle double. So this would be either ground ball at the middle or like kind of a, you know, a flare or a line drive. That's kind of the middle and kind of kind of in the gap, but that the outfielders are running in on not running even sideways on, if anything I am leaving hustle doubles on the table, but I'm not capturing non hustle, doubles. So I looked at how many there were each year and to. Estate what well, I guess you had this chart in your article the next day. So in two thousand fifteen the average center fielder played three hundred twelve feet deep now it's three hundred and twenty one feet deep and the corner, outfielders have moved more or less correspondingly. I can't remember is it a pretty four five feet immigrants, and it's gone a little bit back each year. It hasn't ever year. Okay. So even twenty seventeen which had more home runs than twenty eighteen was still a little more shallow than twenty teen. Right. Yes. All right. So I threw out twenty fifteen. I just looked at twenty sixteen twenty seventeen twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen and the number of hustle doubles in twenty sixteen one hundred eighteen and then in twenty seventeen one hundred and fifty eight two big jump got a trend. And then in twenty eighteen it was actually only one hundred twenty seven and this year, it's on pace to be only one hundred sixteen which would actually be the low for the last four years. So that was a dud. I sorry I don't know. Why do you have a theory or why we're not seeing more hustle doubles than. I don't know. Maybe it could be. Maybe it's like less valuable to try to take that extra base, because there's less contact fewer balls in play like the same stuff, we've talked about with the, you know, it makes less sense to try to go to third when you're on second. You know, you're just kind of waiting for a Homer or not expecting to be driven at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe could be although the p comb run year of the previous three was, when we saw the most hustle doubles, I think that it's just that players. Don't hustle like they did in my day. Yes. My day was twenty seven. If these guys today they just don't want it. They're paid too much. I don't I don't really know. I'm disappointed in it. But that's, that's what that's what it says. That's what all this as you're right though, that fewer balls put in play. And of course, more of the balls that are put in player are fly balls. So even fewer grounders and flares are put in play. So, but all the same, I mean, this is significantly uninteresting I will give you a little bit of a little bit of an extra fun fact. Which is that three players three players four players four players are tied for the most hustle doubles in the past four years with a relatively unexciting total of six apiece, but they do these, these four players have six apiece. One of them is Carlos Gonzales, and the answer to that. Seems pretty easy to explain. He played in course field for a lot of time, which is very spacious outfield. Zapped plate even deeper. One is ATI Albee's, who I think of as a major hustle, double kind of guy and also a hustle, triple kinda guy, and so I don't know if he is I don't watch the majority of Ozzy, Albee's fall playing but fits a narrative that I already had about him. One is Kevin cure Meyer, Kevin care Mayer has. Three of each type. He's the only player with three of each of these types that ground ball and the fly ball us a level. And then Eddie Rosario, who has four the fly ball type and two of the ground ball type, and I watched all of his, and they are really, they are glorious. They are all like he beats it by an inch. You don't see it coming. You don't you don't even you don't even know. He's, he's doing it until he's two thirds of the way and then the, the hurried throw and the tag in the over slide any keeps his finger on and it's beautiful. So those are all the six hustled, guys. Anthony Rizzo has five and Billy Hamilton has five which I like, because those are two extremely different player types, but they both get to kind of the same place here. Yeah. I was going to ask, whether it's better to be extremely fast or sort of sneaky, fast. What's the best way to get a hustle double? Because if you're Billy Hamilton, obviously, everyone's suspecting you try to go there and their deep. Yeah. They're not that too. Right. So the fact that he's done at anyway is even more testament speed. Well, yeah. There's both types at the top of this list. And so either way, I think works, but I think that being sneaky fast slash power hitter. Just eyeball in the top is, is a little bit better. All right. Well, I appreciate us that blessed with the no result gonna mix in one of those every now and then no publication bias on this podcast. If we, we get a significantly uninteresting step last, we will still tell you about it. It's our commitment to you. All right. Andrew Patrick patriots. Supporter says if we had robot on Pires, perhaps, we should say when we have robot empires would or will catchers still squat. Yeah. So this we emailed, a bunch of this stuff back and forth. And so now I feel weird saying it because you've already heard me say it. I have not seen your your response. All right. Good. So who asked this question Andrew, Patrick, Andrew? And so, I asked Andrew, whether he meant to go back to the way, they used to do it where they just kind of lean over in that old timey catcher way or whether he meant that they would like just Neil they would just be on their knees like you do in little league when you're tired, and it's the sixth inning in coach ELS at you. And he. Said the latter. So let's quickly just address, the former which I wanted to mention I had a conversation with I believe showman field in Brad Doolittle early this year about win that they have been discussing win the catcher leaning over way of standing disappeared. And I, I said like eighteen ten right like that, that's wail Timea, and they said that it's actually much more recent than you think like if you look at I believe if I'm remembering this. Right. If you look at World Series video from, like the fifties, they're still standing that way, which is crazy. I might be wrong about all of that, including who I was having this conversation with. But Andrew said the kneeling one, which I think, is extremely interesting. I'm glad that you brought this question up, not because I have a ton to say about it, but I think that, that what Andrew Nye briefly talked about his, very interesting to think about Andrew said, if you don't have a runner on, you would just meal because the squat is really good. For framing. It helps you kind of center, your body around the pitch helps you lean into it, so that you're not jabbing at it. If you Neil, you're gonna be jabbing and so a big part of the reason that you would squat even if there's no one on basis to give the empire that good presentation, if you didn't have to worry about the unpire because this is all math. Now you could jab. It doesn't matter if you jab, he could drop it for all anybody cares. And so you just meal. And so the first thing that you would think, is, when you hear robo umpires is Roble empires will mean more catcher offense because we will no longer be selecting catchers primarily for defense because they're defensive contribution will be so much smaller mobility, will not be quite as important, but Andrews suggestion suggests that you'd have another big improvement to catch offense because they, they could rest, their legs would not break down nearly as quickly, they would have a fresh legs because they would only have to squat, you know, a couple dozen times a game instead of a couple hundred times a day, and their careers would be long. Her. They run faster. They would be healthier. They would have strong fresh legs maybe even into the summer and all in all you'd expect catcher offense to go way up. And then this further led to the realization that, that the players union the players association should be fighting for this. You would think now maybe there's I don't know. Maybe there's union solidarity. I don't know what the players sociation considers the unpire association to be their allies or their foes, because they're going for the same in some ways the same control or power in the game. But from the players association perspective. And from the players cessation members. Specifically, we're talking about roughly ten percent of the workforce for whom. This is a workplace safety issue, a career long jeopardy issue. And a quality of life issue this for ten percent of the workforce. This would be a significant improvement in their work life. And you would sort of think that if the players association thought about it that way that this would be. Something that they might be fighting for demanding now that the technology is there and I don't know. Maybe that's maybe that's I don't know. I don't know how you handle the fact that the other guys are union to, and you're basically trying to get rid of their jobs or some portion of them replace them with with automation. So maybe that maybe I don't know. Maybe you don't think that way, maybe do. I'm not sure. But strictly from players perspective, you could see the union really taking this as a as a priority. Yeah. So you'd have to be somewhat mobile just so you could block ball suit have to get down. And you wouldn't want to stand up, obviously because you still need to present target. That's in the strike zone. So you still gotta get low, but what you only have to block balls. Two strikes. Yeah. That's that's true. I guess, so you'd still have to be down, but you wouldn't have to be as down as you are currently, and I think being on your knees, probably wouldn't hurt a whole lot for blocking pitches. You're even lower than you are squatting. You're less. Mobile laterally. So that's kind of a problem, you know, maybe there'd be more wild pitches and passed ball. So you'd have to keep that in mind, but I think dealing make sense just the trauma, less strain on your knees. It's not easy to, to kneel, either that can hurt your knees sometimes too. But I think that's probably what would happen, and you could even you know, if you're just kneeling every time you could have thick kneepads and you find, that's, that's kind of what you do already. So I think that's probably what would happen, but those concerns that you bring up are interesting once and it would be nice for catchers because Jeff night did episode episode twelve fifteen where we talked to all of the tallest catchers in history. So we had the, the three six foot six catchers in history. All on one episode, including current Tigers catcher Grayson Greiner and. And the older catchers, we talked to were just reeling off a litany of surgeries and oh my hip is been replaced and my knees and this, and that and their entire lower body is are, are just like cybernetic at this point because of their height and the strains of playing the position. But yeah, you would get to see less wear and tear on catchers, you'd get to see catchers playing more games. So it would change the position where like at the low ebb for the position offensively right now, primarily it seems because there is so much emphasis on the defense because it can be quantified now. So we do a complete one eighty and you'd have the opposite in the scenario. So it really would change things dramatically. All right. Maybe last one here, let's say this is from Mitch also patriot supporter, and we were just talking about starters versus relievers the other day. So this is perhaps, inspired by that, the opener seems to me like it's here to stay as a strategy, even if it ever becomes widespread in light of that. How many? Seasons. Do you think it will be until relievers throw more innings than starters, collectively as you said, I think, when we talked about this, it hasn't changed much this year, relative to last year. Right. So it's, it's just over forty percent. I think is going to relievers right now. Yet just over forty percent. And if my memory serves me right, it's gone from like thirty percent to forty percent fairly steadily upwards since like the since two thousand since the nineties it goes up when there's high offense of little bit. So it's not a perfect line up, but it's gone up sort of slowly, but steadily, this is the this year has kind of stalled, but that's a one year stall in. It's not conclusive yet. Yeah. So is there any reason to think that it will pick up again to the point that relievers will outweigh starters, do think? Well, I think that there's maybe a case that the slow and steady progress might be done that, like I would say that within in in. I given the long answer before. Like I think within fifty years, the answer is undoubtedly. Yes. But I don't think that it's going to be it goes up point two percent every year for fifty years or anything like that. I think that we might have reached a point now where it's kind of maxed out under the current way of playing but the next like the next change in pitcher usage will flip it in like entirely quite quickly. And so, I don't know, when that year will happen, though, when that flip will happen in that flip basically being that rather than having even the notion of five man rotation of guys who go six innings you have maybe two dozen pitchers in baseball who go five or six innings and everybody else is on a three or four day rotation has one to four inning relievers or one forming pitchers and at the. The roles are entirely broken down, but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen like this year and that doesn't seem to me like something that's likely to happen gradually. It seems like the thing that's likely to happen when one or three teams commit to it suddenly works. And then lots of teams to it, and it becomes the new economic model for pictures and player development and everything else. Yeah. Well that could happen fairly soon. If one team decides this would benefit us could have light summer like when the race debut at the opener last year in may by the end of the season. What like ten teams have tried it, something like that. And entering the season, you would never have thought that, that any team would do it. Really, what a load, you know, a significant percentage of the teams baseball, and that had to do with the fact that the rays were pretty successful with that strategy to. But still it just took one team to break the ice there for base. To be ready for it because as I wrote the ninety three as experimented with something like that, too. And it was just before its time and it wasn't adopted then they didn't stick with it that long. But if one team entered a season I mean, the raise could have done this. Instead, maybe, maybe they could have just as easily said, we lost a lot of guys to Tommy, John surgery. And this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna have played Snell will be a starter. But everyone else won't be starter. And maybe if they done that it would have hastened the change. So I don't know. It's conceivable to me that it might be decades. But it's also conceivable to me. Ted it could be two years. That is exactly where I stand. So should we hazard guest because Mitch essence to? Yeah. Just is not a thing that a plot that, that you can apply averages or anything to so. Yeah. I mean all say that it happens in eight years. Okay. Six years. All right. Now, I'll take take the over, I think ago, eleven years, all right? I don't know. That's a tough one, but it will happen. We both think it will happen. Yeah. I mean within fifty or maybe we're in seventy five but quite possibly next year. Okay. All right. Should I rep up there? Okay. Well after seven I spoke the Marlins lost again and they got shut out again. That's two consecutive shutouts. They've scored eight runs in their last seven games. They've not scored two runs since may sixth not great before rep up just talk about two more questions. One of which will be quick this one came in after we finished recording from Erich Hartmann. He says, what's the highest number of runs? A team has scored with one player scoring every one of those runs as an example. I write this in the sixth inning of the Jays game in Brandon jury has scored all three of the Bluejays runs. That is how that game ended blue chase lost. Four three injury. Scored the three jas runs Sam entered this one via Email. It's four. Matt Kemp scored four on July nineteenth. Two thousand nine in dodgers four three wind. Eric Davis, scored four in an August. Twenty fourth nineteen ninety four three reds win over the pirates. Sam says it may have happened before that, but that's the most outtake his word for it. And this other question is one that I had on my list, and I'll answer it now because it's peripherally related to something salmon. I discussed this is from Brendon. He says, recently, I saw Lyndon pals name listed as an alumnus of a local youth baseball league. But what stuck out to me is that they listed catching a no hitter as his accomplishment? I read that and laughed thinking is being catcher in a no hitter really accomplishment than the dialogue surrounding Mike fires recent. No hitter. Made me think are we thinking of no hitters wrong? We tend to think of no hitter perfect game as a player accomplishment, but in actuality it should be considered a team accomplishment. It's a combination of good pitching and good defense, not making any mistakes. Why do we seem to give all the credit to the pitcher and not to the team as a whole to bring this back to the land and Powell comment? Why don't all the players credit in their list of accomplishments? They were part of a no hitter. Ramon, Laureano made a great play that preserved the no hitter slash shutout. So shouldn't he be recognized in his career for this, too? And yes, I think that's true. I think we acknowledged that no hitters and perfect aims, even to an extent our team accomplishments. I know that, for instance, Jason Farah tech and Carl's release, I believe have caught four no hitters apiece. I think that's a record. And there's always it seems a play that comes along and no hitter that preserves that no hitter. Like, when we think of Mark Burleigh, for instance, Mark Burleigh has a no hitter and a perfect game. When you think of Mark Burley's perfect game, I think of Dwayne Weise's homerun robbery to preserve that. And if you think of his no hitter, I think, Jermaine Dye had a home run robbery, or at least a catch at the top of the wall that preserved that. And as we've noted many no hitters not actually that impressive from a pitching perspective, often, they're out of Balsam play, and a lot of fen tastic place. And when you're talking about a perfect game, of course, often there, many balls in play, and there many fielders who made spectacular place that if they hadn't made them might have been ruled in air. But still would have broken up the no hitter, of course defense dependent. I mean every start is catcher dependent the catchers involved in every pitch. And so we might as well list the winning catcher in the losing catcher, along with the winning pitcher in the losing pitcher. We don't do that. The reason why we give pitchers credit for no hitters perfect games. Is that they're the person at the center of that story there the protagonist there the one who has the ball? They're initiating the action there. The one we're focusing on and they're the one most responsible for the outing. But I believe it's a tradition, right? When a pitcher pitches, a perfect game often, they will give a watch to other teammates or something, and it will be engraved with the date and the perfect game. And that's a recognition of the fact that, of course, it's team dependent and the pitcher can't actually do it himself less. He strikes out every better and even then he'd still be dependent on the catcher to call those pitches and catch them. So it's really just for convenience sake for storytelling sake. You don't wanna say this team through a no hitter enlist every player on that roster. So you list the starting pitcher. But there's an acknowledgement that all. Players are most players played a part, you can play a part in supporting this podcast by going to patriot dot com slash effectively wild the following five listeners have already pledged their support and are helping preserve the podcast. Mitchell Eusler, Eric Albers, John Russo Tom hawk, and Matthew penny. Thanks to all of you. If something else today to ask you to support. I know the point of this podcast is to distract us from death, but forget our mortality, but sometimes mortality intrudes in it, intruded for me today after I finished recording this Email episode with Sam as I do after every Email episode, I sent the document with all the questions we answered to a group of several listeners who started or have helped contribute to the effectively wild Wicky than they take those questions. And they add them to the synopsis of that episode when it's added to the Wikki, one of the guys I always included those emails is Mike Moriarty, whom I've mentioned once or twice before on the show because he's been such a big part of the effectively wild Wicky project and some time after I sent that Email today, I learned that Mike passed away recently leaving beh-. Hind wife and a young son. Mike was a White Sox fan in Chicago, and he's been at listener for years. He's been a member of the Facebook group for years, and he has contributed more than five hundred episodes synopses to the effectively wild Wicky. He has been one of the two most active participants in that project and he was working on it right up almost until the day he died. It made me very sad to go look at the sign up sheet on the Facebook group, where people claim episodes to recap. And he is the last one to have edited that I think, episode thirteen sixty four is the last one that he worked on an added to the Wikki. I didn't really know Mike. Well, we had corresponded via Email and Facebook chat, but he was a presence in my life, and I appreciated his contribution to the community. He's a big part of the Facebook group in a huge part of the Wikki project. He was also a contributor to banish to the pen, the blog started by effectively Welt listeners and I know that they're planning to publish his last post very soon, I know from looking at his Facebook page, that he's missed by many people. And some of them have set up a gofundme page for his. Wife Ruth and his son, Mike junior, who's three I'm going to link to that go fund me in the show notes today, and in the Facebook group if you'd like to help out his family that would be a great gesture. He gave many hours to listening to, and documenting this podcast. And if you ever use the effective who Wicky to look up an episode. It's very likely that you're looking at his handiwork. I know that he was working toward completing that project, which is almost complete almost every episode has been recapped, and I'm really grateful for that. So even though I never met him as sort of felt like a new just because he was a part of this community that has grown over the years and has meant a lot to people that can see just from looking at the list of people who've contributed to that go fund me. There are a lot of other Facebook group members podcast listeners, banished to the pen writers, who got to know him through the show and everything that sprung up around it. So thank you, Mike. And condolences to everyone in his life. I'll start a threat in the Facebook refer people to share remembrances of Mike. You can join that Facebook group at Facebook dot com slash groups slash effectively wild and you can rate and review. You and subscribe to victory wild on itunes and other podcasts platforms. Keep your questions and comments for me and Sam coming via Email at podcast fan, grass dot com or via the patriot messaging system, if your supporter, thanks Dylan Higgins for his editing assistance, and please consider pre ordering book which can be in your hands and less than three weeks. Order at anywhere sense of confirmation that you preordered an Email or receipt to the MVP machine at g mail dot com and you will be eligible for a bunch of bonus. Good east that we will be giving you the book comes out onto fourth extra chapter conversation between me and Travis, and some other fun documents that are related to the book that you wanna see so priori really helps us and it helps you to we'll be back with another episode of the later this week. So we'll talk to you that I remember the last thing that he told me. Would you say prove me? Frenzy, I shouldn't feel so guilty. I. I know. I wish I felt like standing tall. I could you please.

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Effectively Wild Episode 1654: Home Plate Rump

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:30:04 hr | 4 months ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1654: Home Plate Rump

"Stop it now snow. Then somebody stir blow and welcome to episode sixteen or of effectively wildly baseball podcast. Ben graphs presented by our patriotic supporters. I'm ben lindberg of the ringer a rally and neck. Allow you ever have baseball on the brain so much that you think. Something is about baseball when it isn't at all 'cause i just had that experience today because i had been reading some baseball stuff and then i was reading some reviews of recent albums not necessarily music interested in but just sort of seeing. What's out there. Now is reading. A review of an album called popular monetarists by this artist named wildly. I think his real name is john liquor but he goes by wildly. he's like an experimental electronic musician just reading the music review and it says falling twenty nineteen monetize popular interest wildly studies in machine listening using mobile devices running pitch tracking apps and since in order to generate improvised and i was thinking to myself pitch tracking apps. He's making music with what is this like the. Mlb hap is. He like using game. Day is a psych rep soda or something. And then i was looking back at the review for monitoring a precursor album and it says he composed it using several mobile devices running pitch tracking apps which converts signals into data and activate synthesizers. Really was thinking about this for a minute or two. Wow he's making music using pitch data. That is so interesting. Gotta get him on. The podcast took me like a minute or two to realize. Oh wait pitch as in like notes as is that higher low you know like because the music and peaceful so. My brain is broken by baseball. I guess ben. I feel like that is such a delightful way of saying that you're excited for spring training going. Let's interpreted that way so we've got a bunch of emails today. Got some good ones. I've got a blessed for you. Just wanted to briefly bring up one little tidbit from ben. Clemencies post at fan crafts about the playoff odds. Just wanna steal this little fun fact or unfound fact as the case may be. It's about the nfl central so he added up the world series odds of every team in the central. And i did that too and it comes out to three point six percent so essentially you put all of the central teams together and there's only a three point six percent chance that any one of them will win the world series in two thousand twenty one as ben pointed out that is less than the chance that the blue jays alone and not even projected to win a division their projected to finish second in the alleys which is pretty good but their world series. Odds are three point seven percent so the blue jays alone according to the faint grass playoff odds have a better chance of getting rings than anyone and everyone in the nfl sexual. yes. I also know For folks who listen to our conversation about these playoff odds. And then read ben's piece that the cardinals have eked ahead ever so ever so very slightly Of the brewers for for first place in the al central but we should note that it is. It's like a tenth of a win so they are for all intents and purposes sort of tied atop the division but yes there are a number of fun facts. That i think we're going to be able to construct are around the mediocrity of the nfl central and barring some pretty significant signings over the next little bit here. I don't see anything that's going to really move the needle away from that. So yeah even post are not deal. It's just two years ago. I was reading article about whether the al central eight historically weak division. And how it's the central strongest case. And i think as been also mentioned if you go to the projected standings page unfit graphs. Which is different from the playoff page. Fahd's page takes the schedule into account draft strength of schedule. The projected standings page does not. So it's just sort of schedule neutral estimate of how good the teams are and not a single team in the nfl. Central has hit projected record of five hundred on that page like the one thousand nine hundred four aol west. Everyone's under five hundred. Obviously they do. I guess have projected records of like barely above five hundred eighty two games. Maybe on the plates page get to play each other but on the schedule neutral page. It's like brewers. Cardinals are at four eighty nine. So yeah it's not great. It's not great. It just goes to show that the back end of your rotation is important and Very good individual players. Move the needle some but the roster construction has to be a touch more holistic and that end. Yeah the west is going to be. Where it's at for for the anna. Although i i shouldn't give the the east short shrift be rude of me. Don't be rude ben. All right well. I hope that someone out there is working on making music with pitch tracking apps. Just how cool would that be. Just throw a bullpen session. And you get to make an album out of that. Somehow maybe wobbly can do that for his next album. But let's get to some emails. Because i've got a bunch of good ones. So should we start with unpire pants. Seems like a natural starting point all right so this is an email. We just got from listener. Kyle who says. I regularly pack lunches for my kids to take to school and sometimes include a little note from a set called lunch notes from me. Each note includes some sort of wacky fact n. a. usually bad joke. It's not actually from you kyle. You're outsourcing these lunch notes to the company that made the lunch but that's okay. I'm sure your kids. don't mind. cow continues. I tore off a note to stick in lunchbox this morning. And the next note in the stat. Cut my attention. I've attached a picture of the note which reads major league. Baseball umpires are required to wear black underwear while on the job in case they split their pants. I don't recall this. Before at skeptical a few quick searches turned up some miscellaneous online lists of similarly wacky sports. Facts reddit it threads yahoo answers posts etc but i didn't see anything authoritative about this in may admittedly non exhaustive search. I have not listened to the entire effectively wild back catalogue so perhaps this has come up before. Is this actually a thing. If this is the thing that led to this becoming a rule or guideline was it to preemptively address a purely hypothetical possibility that an empire could split their pants or was there a string of embarrassing pent splitting incidents where empires were wearing. Looney toon style. White boxers with red hearts should mlb instead spend a little more on more durable or more frequently replaced. Pants catchers aren't required to coordinate underwear colors varying uniform. Pant colors right again. May first instinct. Here was that this is a myth. Perhaps with a nugget of truth somewhere like maybe. It was true in the nineteen thirties. Or something at best. Do you know. I should point out that i responded to kyle. I have no idea and on the one hand the poll of finding out if it was actually true and the learning what precipitated the role very strong but on the other hand i sort of didn't want investigated it all and even a little bit because i want it to be true so badly and would be sad if it weren't because ben. Let's let's let's get the obvious question out of the way. Which is how would want enforce this rule. That's a good question who is checking. Who is making sure that these fine gentlemen have on black doors. Who who's the one who's who's making sure that that is true. And i would actually presumably rate since check underwear check area the crew chiefs a very awkward bit of business. I imagine that if this is a real rule that the idea is that once pants could split and no one would notice it. All because because you're right your your your pants and your your drawers same color and so people would be like he has intact pants. So that's one thought i had the other thought i had is. They are the pants. True black or gray so wouldn't black underwear. Wish the pants split. And and maybe they don't have to be more durable but maybe they should be. We should give people pants that fit. 'cause presumably you know if you look if you look at a baseball players pants catcher when he's in his crash right so that i have a reason to have noticed this. You know they have a little have a little insert. They have a little lake dart fabric right in the crotch. That is presumably there so that when they are crouching and their pants are tight to the cup the some room to maneuver player pants have anticipated this problem. I imagine that. Catch your pets or excuse me that unpire pads the the split danger is in is in your bum. It's because you're you're bending over as you are trying to see a pitch bending over and then all of a sudden hoops your bum split. And i'll point out the sort of thing where like if you were the catcher and you're in your couch and you know all pires put their hands on the back of of arctic catchers back so that they can get in there and see the pitches. It's coming in to determine if it's a ball restricts there it's an intimate relationship that you have with the catcher and if you're catcher in the band split can you hear it out of work really. I think joe us just split his pants dis. Do you stop things like you would. If the ball came back and hit him in the mask it'd be like chef. The play like notice that you split your pants there. Do you need to pretend that you got injured in some way seek. Go change your pants. Yeah it's potent pence splitting combination. Because you have guys can't who were wearing slacks who are crouching who are not always. The most physically fit people on the field. Let's put it that way so you can imagine that it would happen so i have an answer here. I am going to sadden new at first. And then i'm going to try to cheer you up again so i forwarded this email to an actual umpire. Dale scott who has been on effectively wild in the past was majorly compare for more than thirty years was a crew chief for decades. And did i debate. Whether i wanted to actually send him this question but ultimately i decided to do it and deal has been a good sport about these kinds of questions. He's actually working on a book with friend of the show near as well now. A memoir that. I think is coming up next year. So don't know if this will be covered in the memoir. But just in case he says i have never heard a mandated requirement by the league to wear black undergarments. Although many do there have been rare. Instances where pants have split during a game. I was fortunate not to have that happen to me. But no there's no requirement as to underwear color so thanks to dale for indulging this question and and kyle's rate this everywhere on the internet if you google like you will come up with many citations of this supposed requirement. All of them uncorroborated unsourced. But it's just one of those internet things that like someone said at some point and now everyone repeats. There may be a basis of this in fact like i don't know that there has never been such a rule in any league at any point but according to dale who was in the big leagues up until two thousand seventeen no such rule existed to his knowledge. Now here's where. I will try to cheer you up again because i did some searches in the baseball literature to look for examples of empire pants splitting actually occurring. And let me tell you. They're pretty numerous. This is not really a unique occurrence. Like i'll just go in chronological order here. This is a retro sheet box score and play by play log. I'm just gonna read you the bottom of the second inning here. This is a a white sox. Cleveland game played in cleveland on august. Seventh nineteen thirty six. So here's the rasheed. Play plug for the white sox. Second bonier grounded out third to first appling singled to center hayes grounded into a double play second to shortstop to first appaling out at second moriarty left the field after ripping his pants dust off the plate. Well repairs made our bed. The plate and kohl's for space runs one. Hit zero era left on face. Okay so now. I have a new set of questions for you. What pids split. It does mention later in the fourth inning. Bottom of the fourth gale house singled to left moriarty returned an attempt. I face so it took from the top of the second to the bottom of the fourth for moriarty george moriarty. Who was the home plate. Empire that day to come back on the field after ripping his pants so presumably he did not have a spare set. Ready to go or it wouldn't have taken more than two innings. So maybe that is the amount of time it took to find someone who could like stitches pants back together again. I don't know but seems prudent. That when he returned he moved to first base. Just you know. Don't want to test those pants again. So ban thanks for you the first of which is so. He was bent over using the little broom that they have to use. Finish dusted off. He's pro was the plate half dusted and then he said white. I split my pets. I must address. This pat suggestion mcgowan came over sweeping at so. So that's the first question i have. I think that we haven't considered the actual potential impetus for such a rule. Although i still think the rule again should it have ever existed. Would have been a little imprecise because i think the important role for the purposes of pants splitting is not that one wears black drawers and i will. I will say in the time that you were describing the the rasheed stuff. I googled and these pants look very much to be great to me. So if there ever had been such rule it would have needed to be updated to have the the color of one's underwear incompliance and and sort of In line with the colors of the pants that modern moab on parish worse. So that's one thing. But i think that the real concern is not what color under ruse you are wearing but that you are wearing them at all sister because the thing that you really don't want i mean like splitting your pants open in public. That's embarrassing no matter what color underwear you're wearing and you know if anything maybe you wanna be wearing silly underwear because then people are going to be laughing. They're laughing at you but there are also laughing at your silly underwear and you can laugh along with them this silly underwear like daffy duck. What's he doing down there. The really bad thing would be if you had on going commando and you had no underwear at all. And then you're leaning over to brush off the plate. You split your pants on your bare ass in the mall and tiny child questions and be like wow that grown persons rear so i i think kyle for this email and i meant it at the time but i don't think that i was was sort of boisterous enough in my thanks because this is easily one of the better five minutes i've spent the last year. So thank you very much not done ago. April eighth nine thousand nine thirty nine the boston globe the mystery as to why umpire cal hubbard suddenly withdrew from an exhibition game. Three weeks ago has been solved yesterday. The same unpredictable pants split wide open. Again this is just a what paragraph note. Larger column so poor caliber. This happened to him twice within a span of three weeks. I really like unpredictable as adjective here on paramedical pants really. You would think. Calendar learned his lesson. The first time just pence. I guess it was the thirties. And you know times were tough and the professional landscape of baseball was just different across the board right. But they don't have two pairs of pants. He doesn't have two pairs umpiring pants. Like i would imagine that modern empires they probably travel with a couple pairs of pants. I mean we have talked before and this is not a generous thing to bring up again. But i'm gonna do it. You know because they are normal folks and not athletes. You know sometimes in the summer when it's really hot they'll stand up after they've been umpiring behind home and they have like us. They have a sweat spot on their lap length. That makes them look like. Ap their pants not split. Their pants peed their pants because their bellies have been have been making contact sustained contact with their laps for the last half inning. And they they stand up and there was a little boy. And i imagine that you know. You're you're doing a whole series so presumably you. You're not always able to go to the dry cleaner and you'd have this splotch on your pants and so you would need to have another pair of different pair of pants to to wear the next day when you're umpiring and so i. I feel like rather than having them repaired. You would just you just put on a pair of pants both for expediency and also because you'd have to be very confident in that stitch to go back on the field and not worried about splitting your your pants open again but again in the thirties. Probably a different set of considerations free number of reasons. Depression was on so the next story. I came across. I'm going to send you a link because there is an accompanying picture and this is from the vancouver sun may nineteen sixty four. I will link to this for everyone to enjoy. But this is an empire caught in the act or really the radical pants caught in the act of splitting as the empire is dusting off the plate. This is poor umpire. Joe frizzell in the pacific international baseball league and we could do the wringer press box podcast game of guests the strain pun headline. But you've already seen it decision at home plates and a bent over in. Let me tell you. He was not wearing dark underwear. Stay critically was wearing underwear at all. He was but it is a shining white and shining out for all to see. And i guess that's why he made the paper. If you had been wearing dark underwear that day probably wouldn't have been his obvious. Probably wouldn't have been captured for posterity here so this is great. I came across somewhere a comment by an umpire at some level. Who said that. He had actually been instructed to face the field not the fans while dusting off home plate in case his pants split and then someone else disputed that instead. Why was instructed to do that too. But it's really just so that. I'm not mooning. The fans suggest less route that way. So i'm pires do tend to face the field. I think when they dust off home plate but whether that is to spare themselves the possibility of pants splitting in front of the fans or not. I cannot say for certain. I think the best part of this is that you know you. You look at the picture just as a little clipping and you're like how big can it be and then you see that there's a preview of the entire front page in the corner and you're like this man split drawers. Were like half. The this picture goes below the fold. Pleads it leads it splits it also. It's so here's the next story. I've got here. This is from june one sixty six and this is in the fort worth star-telegram and it's an article with emmett ashford. Who was the first black umpire in be and real trailblazer pioneer. But this is about his uniform and his equipment and he says here ashford says he never has had trouble with a pair of suspenders breaking but once found himself in an embarrassing situation because of a week. Pair of pants. We we're at san diego one night and i bent down to off the plate ashford explained and when i went back behind the plate. I heard someone yell. Hey emmett your pants are split. Which is helpful. I guess he hadn't realized i kept my composure. Step toward the stands announced ladies and gentlemen and inside exists. But it's too late now to do anything about it. Then i turned around and went back to work. But i made sure i took short little steps so it wouldn't be too obvious. God that i. I mean i have to say. I cannot imagine the composure to be able to make a joke about yeoman that's spectacular and also that's like that's very high version of making sure that someone sitting across from you in a restaurant knows that they have something in their teeth like imagine if that woman hadn't said anything how long also why don't you know your pants plant life. You'd think you would know think you would notice that. Yeah all right. So this is from the journal. Herald of dayton ohio in july. Nineteen seventy four. This unpire ralph. Wilhelm who i think was an amateur umpire so it says that he is willing to put up with all the hollering from fans and players umpire for twelve fifty. A game in. It says why he empires for stretches as long as twenty one straight days why he didn't quit after becoming embarrassed when in the first game he ever umpired on the second pitch he ever called his pants split down the middle and he had to work the game with jacket tied round his waist. So that's a solution. If you don't have spare pair of pants a middle school girl period. I lived that life. Yeah it's happened. His second pitch ever. That sounds pretty traumatic here. All right january nineteen seventy six the orlando sentinel. And this is an empire. Harry wendell stat who is A well known umpire being a fire can sometimes be embarrassing. As wendell set knows from experience it happened in the first game. Harry ever worked as a professional. See there seems to be a common theme here. Maybe these rookie are more likely to split their pants. It was opening night in brunswick georgia and i was behind the plate. Wendelstedt recalled as bent over to call the first pitch of the game. I heard a sickening sound behind me. The seem in his pants had split. You can imagine what that looked like with the white underwear showing through staff said the fans were on me the rest of the game but there was nothing i could do as if that weren't bad enough when the local newspaper came out the next day there on page one was a large picture of harry taken from the rear with an arrow pointing to his toe. And i'll never forget the caption above that picture. Says harry it said official on my gosh necessary. That seems like you gotta you know. First of all it's getting it'd be more satisfying for people to laugh at if they find it themselves and also that seems rude. I wonder if part of the solution here would be. you know. They have the little belt bags where they keep the a couple extra balls so that they can switch them out without always having to go to the the ball boy to get more shoes pivot that around and preemptively focus it right down main street. So that if there's a rip there's some there's some natural cover might be able to feign ignorance for two more for you. This is march one thousand nine hundred eight. The santa rosa press democrat and this is a story where players are talking about umpire so this is something that the player kelvin. Chapman said one of the funniest moments for chapman. A former new york. Mets infielder was the day. Eric gregg a three hundred plus pound national league umpire tore his pants as he bent down to call balls and strikes. It's something that happens to every empire sooner or later is it didn't happen to. They'll scott of those got but not everyone. Does it before fifty thousand spectators. It was in the second inning intent series between the mets and cardinals in saint. Louis said chapman thirty one. I remembered wait. Gooden was pitching against joaquin. Do har- everyone was tight. Until greg blew out the back of his pants. That kind of broke the tension. Greg expense most especially very everything was tight to. Yeah they don't. They're not made out stretchy material. This is what you get for putting umpires in like you know mall cop pants which is what they look like. Yeah it continues. Players on both teams had fun teasing greg that night he had to go in and get a pair of sweat pants to finish out the game. It was hilarious. Chapman said that sounds pleasant for greg. Probably not so hilarious for him. And the last one i've got for you. Here is december nineteen ninety arizona. Daily star this about the empire at montague he started in the california league in nineteen seventy-two. His salary was three hundred dollars a month. Money was tight. So were his bargain-basement pants. He was behind the plate for his first game in modesto california. He leaned over and the seat of his pants split open. He picked up a local newspaper the next day and there was this picture of the sports page. It wasn't my best side. He recalled and the headline read opening day. Okay but now. I have another question for you. Because given a seem to split in one's pants. I would think that you would want the baggage settled probably would so much more visible to everyone really certainly to the fans and and of course you know like if you're if you're crouching behind the catcher like no one can really see while you're in the crouch at least so in most social situations i would agree with you as an umpire's hope played empire not sure. Well i guess that this helps to explain how it is that umpire seemed to withstand managers yelling at them in the run-up to an injection. Because like if you have split your pants in front of fifty thousand people you're not gonna. You're not going to budge when a manager is yelling at you and swearing. It's like listen. I have been exposed to the world. Sir you do not intimidate me with your words. My heiner has been out there before. What a gift though to the local sports page of the headline writers who all had some civil rights. all right. Well thank you to dale. And thank you to kyle for this question. Wanted to get to a lot of questions today and then we spent like half an hour talking about umpire pants. But let's see how many we can get through here. This is from nathan patriots supporter. Everyone's favorite baseball figure. The eccentric billionaire purchases a team in loads it with enough all-stars to make it a team. Talented enough to one hundred twenty games every season unfortunately for the fans of that team his only motivation for purchasing the team is that he wants his son to best. Cy youngs wins record of five eleven even worse for the fans of that team. His son has no pitching talent and is only capable of throwing the equivalent of sixty mph batting practice. Fastballs with enough control to at least throw. Strikes wants to centered sixteen. The owner insists that every time. Their team is leading in the fifth inning. The starter must be pulled with two outs and replaced by his son. Making him the winning pitcher of record if he can hold the lead. Once either gets the final out of the inning or blows the lead he will be pulled assuming this is implemented every game until the sun sixtieth birthday could he accumulate. Five hundred twelve wins. How many games would the team win per season. Ps i'm aware that the score keeper isn't required by the rules to make the sun the winning pitcher in the scenario but traditionally this pitcher would earn the wind. So let's pretend the score keepers. Don't repel so. I guess the part of this question that i i mean. I don't know. I don't think that he could because i think that he would. I mean apart from anything else. If you're really if you're really going to throw every single game. I think you'd you'd blow out. I think he just blurt out. I think he'd get hurt and not be able to to pitch for long stretches in the back half of season at the very least right. I mean every every day. Also what does the son wants you. Know what does has been Groomed from birth to just fulfil his father's dream for him here so but what are his hit. What are his real hopes and dreams. Maybe he wants to a teacher potter. Who knows what that kid wants. What does that kid want. Sixteen what does he to go to school. I think the owner would be in jail. His child and education and for being horribly conniving and at a certain point like the sun has to grow up and say ted. I don't want this anymore. Not obligated no. I can't imagine it would be much fun for him. And i will say like. He doesn't have to pitch every day necessarily because he only when the team has a lead and he only throws sixty miles per hour which is like the hardest. You can throw but still. Maybe he wouldn't blow out his arm. Although it depends how long it takes him to get this one out that he needs to be the pitcher of record. Which if you're throwing batting practice fastballs to mutually hitters. Who know that. That's the only thing you can throw could be quite a while so it might take well like the only way he's really gonna get out is when someone hits a hundred ten mph line drive directly at someone and it happens to be caught otherwise it's going to be a lot of line drives so yeah. Endurance might be an issue. You know even though he only has to retire when better here. I think one problem even if the official score keeper doesn't rebel. I think the team would rebel. Yeah because the team is not going to like their whole season being subordinate to the eccentric billionaire. Owners dream of getting his son above cy young so like maybe the first season. They can't do anything about it. But no one's gonna sign with this team. No one's gonna want play for this team. The clubhouse will be a disaster. They'll only be able to recruit the worst players like no one will want to play their. Ob zero morale. So i think that the team just descends into anarchy and is unable to acquire enough talent to actually have a lead very often. So i guess if that's not in the spirit of the question either. Presuming that this experiment somehow gets to be run endlessly. I still kind of think it wouldn't be possible. I don't know 'cause like sometimes he'd have a giant lead and yeah maybe this guy can get an out before like ten runs or scorch or something. But i don't think he's going to hold many run leads really. It comes down to just how long you think majorly kidder's can t off on someone who is throwing bp before they actually make an out and think about again. i just can't get over the psychology of subjecting. Your child to this because you're right with the team would terrible. No one would want to sign. They're the people who did sign. There would know about this dynamic and it would probably be really terrible to him in the clubhouse because he's just you know this constant reminder that their own talent isn't what matters but what actually matters are the maniacal schemes of a billionaire. And you know we get enough reminders of that in our daily lives as normal people and so he he would get ridiculed and people would probably put sticky stuff on his seat so that he would sit in something and maybe he would split his. Somebody messed with them. And so i just. I think it would fall apart pretty quickly and at some point i imagine the the league would intervene and say hey man like we get you. Maybe love your son hard to tell based on this scenario but presumably there some affection there. But you gotta run your franchise in a more. You know logical way because this is getting really the skin out of hand. I think that at a certain point. The commissioner will call pal. He had to do something about this though again. I think the more likely scenario is eventually his son would just be like i will strike out on my own and i would hope so work. A gas station agreed. Don't think this is doable. Question about the psychology of pitching when you're not qualified to pitch. This is from about twenty four hours after mistakenly tweeting that trevor bauer was signing with the mets. Bob nightingale tweeted that bauer is in line to make as much as one point three two eight million dollars every time he takes the mound for the dodgers over the next two years on the subject of having a bad day at work. My question is how much money would it take for you to start one. Mlp game as a pitcher. Let's say you have to get through seventy five pitches and that you would go down in baseball history. Presumably as the worst pitcher of all time would bowers one point. Three two eight million per start be enough to convince you to do it. And we've talked about scenarios like this before. Sam wrote an article few years ago about whether you would be willing to endure the embarrassment that it would take to play a game but in this case you have to be a pitcher. You have to be a starter. What's saying you actually have to stay in there long enough to really get knocked around and well. So you're saying in your staying in for seventy. Five pitches is the minimum. Yes i submit the following to you ben. I think that's like one inning for would take a while but that's like one innings worth of work. And what am i being paid. One point three two eight million. Yeah i would do that. I mean look like i. I'm fortunate to live. You know even in our pandemic lives like i you know. I am not in danger of losing my home. And i can pay my bills and by salad and you know what have you but like there are a lot of things that would just become easier in my life. If i had a million dollars in for you know a little bit of embarrassment yeah. I think i would probably do that. Because it's it's the sort of thing like i'd get a great piece out of it right now. I'd get a really good article. There would probably be plenty of people who don't like me. Who would mock me mercilessly. But when your own expectation is that you're going to be terrible at something when people make fun of you for it. It sits a slightly different way. If you go in knowing that on the back end of it you're going to have a million dollars. I'm familiar with the first part of that sentence. Less second part but i think i would put up with that for for a million dollars like i. You know i'd have a jersey with my name on it. That baseball reference page graphs page. Yeah i'd have. I'd have a page on my on my own website. And i think i'd i'd put up with that for a for a little over a million dollars fine. Yeah i think i would do it too. I don't know if i'd enjoy it. But i think i would do it for the story. I guess i would get booed. Like i'd rather be compelled to do the somehow so that. I'm not just like hogging the spotlight to something that. I'm clearly unqualified to do. And i'm like ruining everything for my teammates and people who wanna see that team win like if they were some way for me to do it in a self deprecating way where. I'm not derailing the entire season and that experience. I mean i think people would watch this. I think people would be entertained by seeing me get absolutely tattooed. So there'd be some entertainment value in it and i would try to convey via my facial expressions and body language that like. I didn't think i would be good at this like i know that i'm bad and i understand that. So then i guess the question is will why am i doing it anyway just to be a big leaguer and to get a million plus bucks i think probably worth the embarrassment and like being lied topic on i take and having been a yell at me or or whatever. I'd probably put up with it for that. It would be something to to write about an a story to tell. I think that if i could add a conditioned at this very real sick hypothetical i think that if this were the sort of thing that was like in the works. I'd wanna be. I wanna be on call to be the person who gets gets put into the rotation when you know a guy gets hurt right like you find. Oh are started. Can't go tomorrow like we thought 'cause something happened during his side session and he's got to get an mri and and then rather than calling up. You know a guy from aaa could say Will the sweat. We have meg for one time. And and then people's expectations would be low although that gets morally tricky too because i don't want to deprive some aaa pitcher of service time. So maybe that's actually worse. So the the exact like Ethical needle you have just read to to not be weirdly a jerk when you were subjecting yourself to other people's humiliation like there. There are some considerations to be to be had there but assuming that i was like truly someone's last gasp. The best thing would be if you're sort of the on call pitcher and then go out there and you get shelled and everyone's like oh i feel really bad. So here's a million dollars to help you get over your embarrassment that would be the ideal scenario but to be clear i wouldn't eat bugs on tv Because that's gross. But i could get like two thousand words out of this so as the calculus is a little different. Yeah you would also be the first woman to play in major league baseball which would be kinda cool to be a trailblazer but then also maybe not the way that you what brooklyn consideration. Because i don't want some you know. I'm sure it would only be one guy all one guy who s is what i've been telling you and i i would say actually no the takeaway you should glean from. This is that the difference between us and major leaguers is what the gap is huge and. My gender doesn't have anything to do with so much as the fact that you play in a beer league softball league and i write about baseball I mean some people eat bugs book. Proteins grosses really culturally determined. So i don't mean that to be like a sassy thing but i i Mariners games. I did that. One time for work see. There's the exception to the bug eating rule. I will do a lot of things to be able to read yes. This reminds me of of that time when like most of the tigers didn't play a game in protest because tycoon was suspended and then they just got a bunch of non players to play for the team that day. And so like allan. Travers started for the tigers and he went eight but he gave up. Twenty six hits and twenty four runs and you walked seven guys like this was in nineteen twelve. So you would have a very allan travers esque baseball reference page where it would just be like one of those oddities. Where a non player played for strange circumstances so The other hand you would get more than a million dollars which allan travers did not so worth it perhaps just accidentally clicked into the tab that had the picture of the with his pants. Just want to say ben. It's still funny. Yes all right. Seth says in the discussion around the hall of fame and the character class. I wondered why we never hear the argument in reverse nelson cruz on the twins is actually what made me think about it. In his case even is tricky as mentioned below by the stats. He would seem to be at best borderline case in most likely on the outside looking in however he seems to garner pretty unanimous accolades for his clubhouse presence and his intangible impact on a team which may be part of what the character clauses getting at. Should this be part of a consideration for him or should the character clause always be viewed as a possible detriment cruises case in particular extra complicated given the previous pd suspension. But they're probably a handful of other players who could fall into this category as upcoming hall voters. I'd be interested in listening to a discussion around this concept. So i will say that i think this was the original intent of the character clause like to give guys a boost but probably just as a tiebreaker to put someone in if they're on the edge and i would be okay with using it in that way. I think i guess. I'm more hesitant to give someone a positive boost than him to take away from someone just because i feel more confident if we know something bad about that player that that player get that bad thing whereas i don't know enough about players to say that. Oh yes they have great character whereas we do know certain things about certain players where we can say they maybe do not have great characters or at least did not exhibit great characters in the specific incident. So i'd be a little wary of basing my case around. Oh this seems like a great guy because you never totally know for sure that they are great guy and then you might discover someday that they actually a great guy. But it's something that you know. If i were really if if someone was like on the border of jaws or whatever and i thought it might kick them over into the induct them camp. I might do that. Yeah i i agree with that. I think that the argument that i share your trepidation at assuming that we know all of the unser documented aspects of a person's life because we often don't and sometimes we ever i mean the scales. A great example of this right were there were revelations that really contradicted sort of what the public perception of his personality and character were so i share your trepidation there but yeah i think that when you have sort of well documented good guys. It's fine for that to give them a boost to me. If we're going to think about a person's resume as a human being then. I think that you know we would be. We'd be silly to not take into consideration you know. They're doing a lot of really good work in their community ear. They're important advocates for somebody. Or what have you so yeah. I think that it's tricky business to do. And i think you do occasionally set yourself up for heartbreak. But i think that especially as time goes on and we just know so much more about these guys Because the way that we talk about who they are as people has has really started to shift in the way that sports media covers them. The you know we do. We're at least able to be a little more confident. that like. Yeah this guy who has a sterling reputation as hopefully who we think he is. And then you have to be willing to admit when you're wrong and adapt to new information when it's presented to you but yeah nellie isn't interesting case because you know the the pd thing even his resume as a player were different. I think would probably be just a nonstarter for people but he is just one of the more sort of universally beloved guys in the game and the the ways that he takes care of younger players and some of the stuff that he has sat around. You know not wanting young pros to go through a bunch of hazing. 'cause just because he did is like i think thoughtful and and sort of self reflective away. That's really admirable. So i'm comfortable with nellie in like a hall of the very good. He far trucks for his hometown in the dr. Like he's you know he's solid sort. So yeah there's a limit to how much weight i would want to give this. Sharon that's true in both directions. I mean that's part of why we had this whole hand-wringing discussion about the character class when it came to keeping people out because i think the hall of fame has the most utility. When it's sort of will these were the best baseball player slick. That's sort of the purpose of the plaques part of it at races just to recognize who the best players are and so when you start keeping out some of the best players because of things they did off the field than well are you sort of distracting from the mission of the hall of fame. Is this diluting the purpose of it or how representative it is of who the best baseball players are and there may be people who did such important things that it's still worth keeping them out but that whole debate wasn't are these hall of fame. People are these hall of fame players so reprehensible as people that we can't even celebrate them for being good at baseball because to do so would be to endorser can donor enable wrongdoing and. I think it's understandable that there would be disagreement about whether it's acceptable to decouple those qualities. But the reason why we're having that argument at all is because we were starting from the presumption that the point is to recognizer anoint. The best baseball players. So i think if you were to go in the other direction and say well. This guy was not a great player but was a real hall of fame person and you start putting in people like that then suddenly. It's just like what. What are we doing here. What what are we giving these plaques up for like they're already awards for character and community service and that sort of thing and i don't want to suggest that that's any west important than being good at baseball but if the point of this exercise is to decide. This is the pantheon of baseball players. And just this person deserves to be there based on their in game performance than if you start factoring in well. Was he nice or did he do. Good things for people. Then you're just recognizing something else really. Just you know it makes the mission of the hall of fame or at least the induction and the plaques part of it less well defined. I think so. That's why i wouldn't wanna just put anyone who was a a nice person in but again it could be a tie-breaker all right. Another hall of fame related question. This is from sam. I'm in atlanta fan and notice that they had at least one hall of famer on their active roster for all but one season nine hundred four since warren spahn returned from world war two in nineteen forty six until chipper jones retired in two thousand twelve. If freddie freeman in any of the hammers young stars are one day enshrined. The street could extend well into the future. Additionally in the lone exception year of nineteen eighty-four the team was led by hall of fame manager. Joe torry with bob gibson and luke appling on the staff. The nineteen eighty five to two thousand twelve streak didn't seem particularly impressive by itself because it just represents a year of bruce suitor followed by tom. Glavin and chipper. Jones is long careers with a few teammates in toe for various stretches but the trend of having a hall of famer on the roster for all but one year since world war two did strike me. It seems particularly surprising. Since the team was not regularly contending for penance. For much of that time. Is this remarkable or is it more or less normal to have a hall of famer on any given team's roster almost every year so this would be a good step less question but built james already answered it for did this basically as stat plast in the most recent edition of the bill. James handbook. There is a whole long essay where he researches this question of. How common is it to have a hall of famer. And he found that from nineteen hundred to twenty fourteen he took all of those teams and he found that seventy three point. Five percent of them had a hall of famer but he said he also expects that figure to rise to roughly eighty percent. More players get inducted because if you look at the current percentages for teams frank in the early decades up to and including the nineteen fifty s. Those percentages are already well over eighty percent and there in the high seventies through the nineteen eighties. Eventually we'll get to the point. Where about eighty percent of teams had a hall of famer. So it's pretty common even so the braves are above average. They have had a pretty remarkable run of having hall of famers and bill had a leaderboard where he ranked every franchise by the percentage of seasons in which they had a hall of famer. And the top of the leaderboard was the new york giants. Who while the giants were in new york. They had a hall of famer every single season. Which is pretty impressive. But after that. It's the milwaukee braves also one hundred percent that was nineteen fifty three to nineteen sixty five and of course they had errand during almost all of that time and then the atlanta braves nineteen sixty six to two thousand. Fourteen are at ninety three point nine percents and if you take all braves seasons combined so nineteen hundred to two thousand fourteen. It's ninety one point three percent and that's the second highest after the perfect giants so even the yankees from nineteen hundred to two thousand fourteen had hall of famer in ninety one point one percent of the season so the braves at ninety one point three even higher than the yankees so yes the braves did have a pretty remarkable run of having a hall of famer every year. That's tackler yes. Well spotted san okay questioned from kieran when the season got shorten last year. My immediate initial reaction was well. What a boon for these pitchers to get a mid career. Break the subsequent reaction over the past year from as far as i can tell literally everyone has been the complete opposite now all the talk is about innings limits. Six men rotations etcetera. This seems to be gospel among baseball teams. Which are universally smarter better funded and have better data than an idiot like me so i accept that this is probably the case but i still. Don't get it really. There's about a million caveats here but take a pitcher who has an established level of work in the big leagues then had a healthy short season or opted out like stroman or price last year. It just seems to me like that. Pitcher should be easily able to return to the previously established level of work but the overwhelming consensus. Otherwise as far as i have seen part of my thinking comes from my experience training for marathons which obviously doesn't have a ton in common with pitching but is a high injury risk train wreck of an activity for the human body. Having trained successfully for a couple of marathons cycles taking downcycle really refreshes my body. It's not like. I have to go through a full cycle of only training for a ten k. After i take downtime it's used to grind and can hop right back in so i emailed this question to glenn fleiss egg. Who is the research director. At a semi the american sports medicine institute and he studies pitching mechanics in pitch counts and workloads and entry risk and i thought his perspective might be useful here so he responded the question about whether there will be an increase or decrease in pitcher entry rates in two thousand twenty. One is a very good one as pointed out below their factors suggesting that the decreased workloads in two thousand twenty across baseball may lead to fewer injuries this year and other factors suggesting that there may be more interest. This year. I don't have a crystal ball on this but i do think. Players and league should consider several factors including the number of innings pitched in twenty twenty number of months pitching or not pitching in competition in two thousand twenty in any injuries in two thousand twenty players and teams should consider longer preparation time in spring training etcetera for players coming back from long layoffs preparation includes pitching and throwing drills but also comprehensive strength and conditioning programs players and teams may also consider ramping up their pitch counts once the season starts is highly individualized and athletic trainers and others and staff neat good honest communication with players to monitor that progress. My final point that the specifics within these generous statements vary not only player to player but also by level whereas mlb pitchers are approaching a full season after playing a shortened. Twenty twenty mlpc's and many minor league pitchers are coming in. Not having pitched competitively for a full year specifics. Also very for our youth. High school and collegiate pitchers who had their own unusual twenty twenty seasons and are not physically mature like professional pitchers that the fact that this is still both an unsettled question generally and one. That is hard to feel confident in the answer in. That's an awkward way of saying that but at an individual level is going to be one of the defining things of the season which you know. It's sort of an obvious thing to say. But i imagine that we are going to see very sort of methodical and purposeful ramp ups in the spring that managers and player development staffs are going to be very conservative with sort of load management when it comes to major leaguers and cash like i don i guess it kinda depends for the minor leaguers. What if any action. They did see. I mean they won't have in. Most cases have pitched in in sort of traditional game settings but some of them might have been at the outsider instructs or played. You know internationally this winter during winter ball. But i imagine that it's gonna unfortunately there are gonna be guys where you know they. They think one thing and and an arm suggests something different after they've started throwing but i don't know that there's a really great way to predict that in advance. I mean my instinct is to say that for guys who are coming off of injury. The lack of sort of new strain on an arm might be good. But you're going to have to go really really slow as you get them back into game shape and you know. I wouldn't be surprised if we see sort of fastball. Velocities depressed for longer than his typical at the start of the year. 'cause i think guys are just going to have to go very slow and steady. Because they don't want to risk blowing out. Yeah i think kieran may be on to something for some pitchers. I think if you are younger. West established less experience. Or if you've got hurt last year that might not bode well but if you are physically mature if you have pitched at that level for a while i think it could be helpful in the long run. I wouldn't be surprised if we do see some pitchers last a long time at a high level and maybe attribute that to the long break they got in twenty twenty because if you do get that time off and you also keep yourself in shape and you ramp up for the season appropriately and take whatever time you need all. Those injuries came about last year. Because pitchers didn't have the time that needed and they tried to compress it in russia. And that had ill affects. But i think if you just had more rest and more time to heal more time in the middle of career then pitchers technically have to rest and repair your ucla. Or whatever just let the body knit itself back together. I think as long as you don't try to rush it when you come back. I think it could be beneficial for some pitchers in the long run again. But i think you probably should try to take it easy. Just as you're coming back because your body may not be built up the way that it would be coming after a regular. Yeah i think that's right okay. Andy says i'm a lifelong pirates fan in my thirties. Sorry andy fa team has never won a traditional playoff series in my lifetime. We got to experience a sense of euphoria in the middle part of the last decade. Only to be dashed by the debacle. That is the wildcard playoff. Game it's obvious that we are in a new rebuild phase. Can you explain this new phase. We're heading into like a parrot explaining heart news to a child that is terrified of another twenty years of consecutive losing seasons. The fan base is naturally an understandably shaded since the one thousand nine hundred ninety s. And i can't say just looking at the board at graphs and the farm system rankings. The pirates after trading everyone who was left essentially are now fourth when it comes to projected value from their farm system it goes raise. Patriots dodgers pirates. So that's encouraging. I guess i think that the thing to keep in mind and you know we'll have updated firm system rankings as we get further into two lists here but this is a legitimately good system and i think that that's that ought to be encouraging to to pirates fans for a couple of reasons the first of which is that. I think that there is much about this new regime. That seems geared toward taking advantage of that in a way where you know. We don't have to rehash the high profile trades that have gone badly for pittsburgh but they seem to have a better handle on player development in this new regime and your ownership group is pretty disinclined to reinvest in the team. And so the nice thing about having good young players is that you might feel a good competitive roster even though your ownership group is cheap. So that that's promising. And you got that beautiful ballpark and so you know there. I think that it's very easy to kinda get stuck in a in a particular team identity. Like i'm a mariners fan. I am aware that propensity. But i think that it is worth giving new team regimes. A little bit of time to figure themselves out into course correct or some of the mistakes in the past and really see what they can do then you if they let you down then you can be mad but but i you know. I think that some of the reaction that we saw to some of the traits that pittsburgh made this offseason was like oh those pirates again. And it's like well. I get that. But this is a new group of folks and they seem pretty savvy and they are headed by someone who has a good reputation for player dav and they seem committed to winning. And so we don't have to excuse the the sort of chiefs gates impulses of ownership. Everyone knows i am disinclined to do that. But you know. I think give the team part. The actual players and team personnel folks a chance to to right the ship because they're pirates good one. Yeah i mean do it. It's you know they have been charrington. Who assembled a championship caliber. Korir in boston and help develop some good players in toronto and then they've got john baker now as the director of coaching in player development coming from the cubs and they signed campo late of the astros so they are recruiting people from other successful organizations. Who have some track records of putting talented teams together and yeah ultimately it comes down to bob nutting and his unwillingness to spend in that might lower their ceiling for as long as he is their owner. You know given the prospects that they have now and the people who are in charge. Now you'd think that they could. We do as well as could be expected given those budget constraints soho lower your expectations appropriately. But also racer expectations appropriately in other ways. I guess that that's right okay. I've got two more here on my list. This is from emily with dustin pedroia officially retiring this week it got me thinking about episode sixteen twenty seven in which you come down pretty definitively against almost all forms of heckling. What would you to red sox. Fans heckling manny machado. Though we can say with near certainty that machado's dirty slide into pedroia during a game in april. Two thousand seventeen is a large part of the reason why destined never effectively made it back to baseball and led to his early retirement. So am i allowed to heckle him. Using this line of attack. I say yes. I certainly have. But i'd be interested in your take. Some other related items. I've been mulling for all. Intents and purposes dustin has at least publicly moved on from the incident incident and has said he's not upset by it anymore. I'm still upset though. And as far as i can tell. Machado has never expressed any form of remorse. Petroria himself as well known for his heckling. It's usually been portrayed in a good humored type of way. This was not an isolated incident for machado east under the things that have contributed to his west than savory reputation in baseball. This would lead me. To think that he is more heck lable than most could dodgers fans heckle him for. Not exactly hustling i in the two thousand eighteen world series. What they have to stop now that they have finally one. Lastly the padres are really really fun. Team and heckling machado feels like heckling them by proxy. Which i don't want to do. I think that if the player who was injured has said that he has moved on then. Then you kinda have to roll with that rate to roll with him having moved on. So that's that's my instinct. I mean look. I i don't like heckling because it is not comfortable for me. Personally it is not like the way that i engage with fandom anymore. I have heckled in the past. But it just feels kind of uncomfortable for me now and i think that you can heckle if you're doing it in a way. That isn't over leap personal. But then what's the point of the heckling like heckle creatively. What does that even mean fan. What does that mean that. I just said i don't know i don't i don't love. I think boo boo heartily. Hardy boo nothing wrong with that. You know it gets the point across it can cover all manner of sends right. It's also just the thing that you as a person who's rooting for the other side in a contest to win can express free of any weird recrimination or getting overly personal with someone who you don't know so i would say if i could offer an alternative and again i think as long as you're not heckling achey. The east can kind of do what you want because these guys really don't pay attention in king unless you're there in the in the on deck circle in your freight there. They just don't really hear you. But i might offer booing alternative because it's you know it's still forceful and it's loud and it could. It just can be both. What is the word like. You're you're chastising them but in like a safely general way i don't know what do you think do you think what do you think about heckling. I don't like echoing i think. Well yes. I'm i'm not really pro heckling to begin with but i think if a player has a really well established and deserved reputation as a dirty player or a head hunter than. I'm okay with certainly doing that. Player expressing disapproval of that behavior. Somehow this particular play. I don't think is an open and shut case a dirty slide. I mean this was much. Disputed i just went back and watched it and again it looks to me like it could very well be an accident and probably was just sort of Elite slide and his foot kind of kicked off the basis he was sliding and then he very quickly showed morrison checked on pedroia. Like it does not look intentional to me. Despite machado's reputation for for other plays like this. And so i am kind of with pedroia in not blaming him for this and patricia said earlier this month. I'm not upset about anything anymore when he was asked about this. That play could happen my rookie year. When you play second base and you play second like me you hang on until the last possible second to get the ball because you watched it. If there's a slim chance at a double play there's one guy on planet earth who could turn it and you're talking to. He hasn't lost any of his veto but he doesn't seem to hold a grudge looking at the play. It really doesn't look like it was clearly dirty to me and it really needs to be like i need to be sure and range like the player has to be like gloating about it like you know. Then i'm comfortable mocking him or heckling him or booing him or whatever but this doesn't rise to that level for me and the red sox retaliated against him in through adam and almost hit him in the head which i think is worse than what machado did so even if you think that he deserved some sort of punishment for that yard took it from the red sox on field so yeah i would let this go and I would not get machado's case. Because of the pretoria slide personally. Yeah and it persisted for a while and at one point you know they were they. Were still coming out. Machado and pedroia was in doug going. That's not me that's not me. Trying to communicate to manny machado that he was not directing this on the part of his teammates. So i think that it's absolutely an unfortunate injury and we're not trying to downplay that and again i don't. I don't think that baseball players really here fans and so. I think as long as you're not like using language that's objectionable not only for the player but for the people around you that i'm not gonna sit here and get overly fussy about it. It's not the way that i expressed displeasure. But i understand that. It is the way that some people do. But i agree with you. I think that it really has to be obvious that it was intentional. And i don't think that this case is unambiguous in that way. So i would offer a hardy boo as an alternative but also said that if the person most affected by it can find his way to kind of moving on from it that we might invite ourselves to do the same agreed all right last question. This is from mona who says i saw. Mlb networks top ten shortstop list on twitter today and regardless of how much people don't agree with the list. I noticed that almost all of the players listed are excellent much less at least very good hitters. Some of them like tim anderson and tender bogart's particularly seem like they stick around to hit more than two field. This stuck out to me. Since for most of my life shortstops have been considered fielders first and hit her. Second much catchers center fielders. I wonder if league-wide or at the very least for the top ten shortstops stats like wrc. Plus plus and particularly slugging percentage to a notable extent are higher than they've ever been even with league-wide slugging taking to the skies in general at side of the stats. I'm particularly curious to hear your thoughts on whether or not this may establish a trend of teams trying to squeeze more hitting out of their shortstops in the future and leave other positions particularly in my mind second base and center field out of mind to lean more toward necessitating dazzling fielding. Let me know what she think. So mona is onto something here. She has picked up on an actual trend. I think if you search the electric pages of fame graphs you'll come up with various posts about a golden age of shortstops and we are in an era when shortstops are hitting better than they have ever hit before there couple of ways. You can look at this. You can look at performance as shortstop so when players were actually playing shortstop that is split on the fan dressed leaderboards but it only goes back to two thousand and two or you can just look at players whose primary position was shortstop even though they didn't necessarily play shortstop all the time and that goes back to the beginning of baseball and i looked at both of those methods and the live ball era or just the two thousand and two twenty twenty period and twenty twenty regardless of which way you look at it was the best offensive. You're ever for shortstops smaller sample of course but shortstops had a one. Oh two wrc plus last year. Which is the first year ever. I believe that shortstops have ever hit above the league. Average at least in the light bulb era they were never higher than ninety prior to the past few years and were generally well below in the seventy something to eighty something. Wrc plus range so that is notable and if you look at the top three seasons of all time it's twenty twenty two thousand nineteen and twenty eight thousand and twenty seventeen and twenty six are right behind so this was not a twenty twenty fluke. Shortstops are actually hitting better than they have ever hit before and so the question is does. This mean anything. Does this tell you anything about the position. And it might. But i think that's a little harder to say because a lot of this is cyclical. So you see that you know. A great crop of players happens to come along at a particular position and they hit really well for a while and then those players age out in things swing back in the other direction so who is just a few years ago that people were writing about like a golden age of second bass hitting and people were speculating about what may because of the shift. You can play anyone there now. You know you can put make stock answer. Whoever at second base and you can just position them better. You don't have to have the traditional second base skill set so you can have some sluggers there but that hasn't really continued in in the last couple years you know. Since then offense there has receded somewhat. And there's just an ebb and flow to it across history so it might mean something it might not like you know. We're in a high point for third base offense to now. So maybe you could say that infielders in general are hitting better or with more power or just because of the shift or or positioning like there's a less rigid understanding of you know you have to have this particular body type to play this position like i. I do think the definition of positions and just like do you have to fit this profile. Teams have gotten a little looser about that. I think they're more willing to put people at positions that historically they might've been shunted away from but you know shortstop always hit like this collectively. I would guess probably not fray. I would tend to agree with that. I think that there's an influence to these things and good defensive positioning from a variety of sir up. The middle spots allows you to be a little looser and and prioritize offense sir. But i think you're also right that this happens to your so wildly talented crop of players many of whom hit the big leagues really young and were athletic. Able to do a bunch of stiff. So i don't know that it is a permanent shift in the position but i think it's a great deal of fun to watch while we have it. I think the place where you're likely to see if i had to pick an infield spot where i think the defense is going to not not matter but continued to be shifted. It's it's more likely at second probably than at short. But i think you're right that there's a lotta eb and flow over the years with this kind of stuff so yeah yeah and like catcher has been bad lately which could be because of prioritizing framing and saying we that seemed to matter so much and so catcher offense hit a low point. But i think it's bounced back a bit and of course if you get robot opposite some point than that won't matter at all and suddenly catchers will probably be hitting better than they have before so sometimes conditions change and that causes these changes and sometimes it really is just a cyclical sort of random thing or you know. Maybe a cal ripken comes along and people think. Oh you can be big play shortstop than a rod play shorter or whatever and you get that crop of mid-nineties shortstops. And i think it's partly related to the juiced ball to that's kind of leveled the playing field power wise because now it doesn't take as much pop to get the ball over the fence so players at positions that haven't traditionally been the province of sluggers can still hit for power and there may be been some advances like unlocking swing changes and pulling the pollen hitting the ball out front that can help littler guys hit like bigger guys and know that the correlation between height and isolated power has been a lot lower in recent years than it has historically so while. We've seen plenty of big guys play short. We've also seen some smaller guys. Like francisco endore learn tap into power that they weren't expected to have but again they come and go so. Enjoy the golden age of shortstop offense while we have it but don't necessarily know that it will last forever. But i think people talk about position with basketball and i think there's some of that in baseball now to where you see like the dodgers for instance will just like you know next month. He'll play second base. Sometimes in the no play first base early. Chris taylor will play center and then play second guys are just roughing all over the field. So i think there's more willingness to do that so maybe there will be less clear distinctions when it comes to the offensive baselines for various positions for one thing teams. Carry so many pitchers on their rosters. These days that they need their position players to play all over the field. But i think you can get yourself into trouble if you try to connect these things to a trend and sometimes it really is just well. You happen to have a bunch of good players at a particular position at a particular time. Yep okay that is the last question i have. It sets up our episode ending. Step last Too the step was inspired by an addition of the joshi and newsletter from earlier. This week where he wrote about the angels and he noted that the angels have gotten the least value from their starting pitchers over the past several seasons. Not a shocker. Perhaps but they're like down there with a bunch of teams that weren't really contending during that time and the angels were trying to content and still not getting any pitching and joe was wondering. Why were they not one of these. Serious trevor bauer bidders given that. They seem like they could really use a durable top of the rotation type and yet they were not a finalist for his services. And now they're trying to cobble together a rotation out of non aces again so i was inspired to look the worst or least productive positions on all teams over the past five seasons so so sort of like Jay chaffee replacement level killers exercise. But i've always liked looking at the least productive positions especially over a period of years. Like when there's a failure by one team to fill a position for years on end yeah so it's like you know not just one year. Things went wrong but you failed for a long time to put a productive players that position. And i've forgotten a lot of things that i've written about baseball but for some reason i remember writing transaction analysis for when the royals signed omar day to a four year deal in two thousand thirteen and at the time i looked at like how unproductive royals second baseman had been in the four seasons preceding that move and you know they had been not only the worst second baseman but the worst position period. That was like chris gets a bunch of other non hitters. And so i had a little leaderboard in there and i thought well omar infante day. That will solve problems. Because he's been pretty good lately and spoiler. It's not solve their problem at all. Over the next four seasons they had the fourth least productive second baseman in game according to fan graphs. Were so fun. Dave didn't even last that contract with the royals. I believe they released him before. That contract was up on the plus side. They won two pennants and world series during that time. So that's another thing. I like about this exercises that you can have a terrible position and still be a good team. It's hard but it's doable. So it's not always just the worst teams that have the worst production. So i did was. I looked at all of the positions except d. h. Laid them out from best team. To worst a looked at the average i got the standard deviation of the war values for those positions over the past five seasons twenty sixteen to twenty twenty and then i looked at how far below the mean in terms of standard deviations. The worst team was at each position over that period. And then i compared the positions. So i looked for basically the worst position relative to its peers at that same position and then ranked them by that so not just like the least were at any position but at least were relative to the positional average. And how that stacks up to the other worse jobs at getting some production from position so if we want to start with the the best. I'll go best to worst. So the best worst position is actually the angels starting rotation which has been worth twenty eight war over the past five seasons lead in playing time by injure. Heaney the late tyler. Skaggs said to see his name and matt shoemaker. And i also looked to see whether they have solved this problem so i looked at the fan. Grass step charts to see. How do they stack up in two thousand twenty one and this problem well. It hasn't been solved. Exactly the the project to have the seventeenth best starting rotation which is better than the worst. But they're projected leader is still andrew and they've added cobb and they've added kintana like there are players there. They couldn't be together. Something good here but a lot has to go right. They they don't have like a an ace. They've failed to bring the the coal or the bauer or someone like that. Who could write the wrong here. So still like middle of the pack rotation at best after years of being the worst. And i guess what they've dylan bundy to do There's some talent there but yeah there's some there are some guys for the back of their rotation who i still think are willing i still think griffin canning is interesting but yeah it's it's not you don't walk into the season finally going yes. We shall see my trout in the postseason again. Angels who metro can pitch but there is show. Hey what's hope fingers crossed. But i want that so badly for him. And for you ben i know i know i have like four shohei shirts that may effectively weld secret. Centers have sent me for the past three years and need an opportunity to wear them. So yeah you know there are some promising players there but still up in the air anyway. The angels rotation was one point three standard deviations below the mean for starting rotations when it comes to where now one point four standard deviations below that is right field the blue jays who were worth one point three war from two thousand sixteen to twenty twenty and that was Jose bautista at the end of his career rental rich and tasker hernandez and task hernandez still the projected world leader at position for them. They rank fourteenth in projected. War from right fielders. Twenty twenty one so again problem not necessarily solved. But they brought in george springer and now tasker is in right and they have some depth there so middle of the pack. At least that's better than bringing up the rear all right the next worst position also one point four standard deviations below the mean second base. The giants giants second baseman. Three point eight war over. The past. Five seasons led by joe panic donovan. Solano and kelpie tomlinson in playing times giant second baseman project seventeenth in second base. Were this year. And tommy la stella is the leading projected war getter there so problem again not solved but at least addressed some yes all right next one also four standard deviations below the mean royals third baseman third base. The royals were the worst five point. One war from their third baseman. Over the past. Five years mike moustakas cuthbert and hundred dosier and this year. They project twenty-first in war from third baseman and hunter dosier is the leading protected. Work at they're right. Next is center field and you could probably guess what team is bringing up the rear here again. One point four standard deviations below the centerfield mean with a total of two point. Five were from their center fielders over the past five seasons. It's the mariners lead in playing time by leeann is martine year mo- heredia and alex smith and the mariners project eighteenth in centerfield war. This year led by kyle. Lewis right next up. This is shortstop shortstop one point six standard deviations blow them in the brewers have gotten two point six were from their shortstops orlando arcia jonathan vr. And eric sogard brewer shortstops project to be twenty fifth. This year again led by orlando arcia so the same guy no surprise that problem is not really solved right next up for space and one point seven standard deviations below the mean we have the rockies with negative to war negative to were most embarrassing one patent. It's it's up there. We make get more embarrassing but negative to were from rockies first baseman over the past five years mark reynolds ian desmond daniel murphy. And here's the kicker project to be the worst in twenty twenty one as well and actually their top projected were at this position is colton welker who is projected to get like thirty five plate appearances at first or something because everyone who is predicted to get more playing time at first is separate placement level. So not only. Is this problem not solved. It is as bad as it has been for the past five seasons. So there you go the rockies right three positions left next up one point nine standard deviations below the mean catcher the tigers tiger's catchers have produced negative three point two war over the past five seasons lead. If you can say that in playing time by james mccann former effectively wowed guest grayson greiner and john hicks and this year tigers catchers project to be twenty fourth with wilson ramos leading. So problem not solved. Okay second to last position. Two point two standard deviations below them in left field. And it's that team again it's the colorado rockies the only team that shows up at multiple positions on this countdown is the rockies and investment is kind of a common element here in i in left field. He's actually fourth in playing time. In left over that period. It's led by harare raimondo. Tapia and david doll and again projected war by rockies left fielders and twenty twenty one thirtieth led by rimal tapia so not only are the rockies on this list twice for having two of the worst and we productive positions in baseball over the past five seasons but in both cases they still project to be the worst in twenty twenty one which like if you fit the worst over an extended period. Like at least you can say okay. We know what we have to fix here. And it shouldn't be hard to like at least be better than worst better than sub replacement like rockies fielders of the past five seasons negative three point one word like come on you can do better than that and yet they do not project to do better than that and there's something about those two positions which are so far down the defensive spectrum being so bad in literally the just strikes you as insulting in a in a weird way. I wish that he doesn't were better. 'cause i remember what team is on and it's not for a good reason. I know all right and less place here with a war. That was two point. Three standard deviations blow them in at that position where up to the bullpen. Now and it's the marlins the marlins bullpen marlins have gotten zero war. A nice neat zero point zero war from their relief pitchers over the past five seasons lead in playing time by kyle bear claw dustin mcgowan and Lean garcia and this year. The marlins penn projects to be twenty-seventh in baseball led by unique arcia. So again what strikes me here is that we're talking about the worst positions in baseball over the past five seasons only one only blue jays redfield projects to be better than average in two thousand twenty one and just barely fourteenth in in baseball and most of these teams that have been bringing up. The rear are still basically bringing up the rear so this is like extended futility and this can happen. You know if if you happen to make a bad bet on a particular player such as in desmond. Let's say and you think that that hole will be filled for years to come and then it isn't and it turns out to be in even deeper hole than the thought like it might be tough to escape that for a few years and maybe your farm system just didn't happen to produce a good player at that position for awhile but really when we're going on several seasons of just like an abyss at that position like do something to it. You know you don't have to be the best at that position but even just like getting to above replacement level would be a big leap for these teams at these positions right. So that's that. I will put this spreadsheet online if anyone wants to see where their teams ranked at every position over that span and that will do it for today. Where pants that fit you all right. That will do it for today. Thanks as always for listening. I will just note as a brief follow up to our discussions. About mickey callaway and jared porter that the league has instituted a couple of changes in response to those reports. I am reading from lindsay adler article at the athletic which i will link to major league. Baseball has updated its workplace code of conduct pertaining to sexual harassment and discrimination after two stories revealed alleged harassment by now former mets general manager jerry porter and current angels pitching coach mickey callaway. The league will also provide a third party anonymous hotline for reporting incidents of harassment and will require anti harassment and discrimination training for club executives during spring training. The league recently proposed the changes to the nlp a which agreed to the modifications. So just letting you know that. Some small measures have been taken to address this problem. Although i'm sure much more remains to be done who knows how much training over zoom will actually help but the anonymous hotline seems like a good idea at least it's a start checkout lindsay's article for more details. You can support effectively wild on patriots by going through patriot dot com slash wild. The following five listeners have already signed up in a moment. The amount out. Keep the podcast. Going and get themselves access to some perks. John zach campbell and magnuson gordon balfour and or custody. Thanks to all of you can join our facebook group at facebook dot com slash groups slash effective filed. You can review and subscribe to effectively wild on i tunes and spotify and other podcasts platforms. Keep your questions and comments for me and meg coming. The email at podcast fame crafts dot com or the patriot messaging system. If you are a supporter thanks higgins for his editing assistance. And we'll be back with one more episode before the end of the sweep off then morning to see dimaggio audrey. Let's go back and put it has to be patch it up.

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The Sleeper and the Bust Episode: 677  Reviewing Arsenal Changes

FanGraphs Fantasy Baseball

1:10:44 hr | 2 years ago

The Sleeper and the Bust Episode: 677 Reviewing Arsenal Changes

"Hello episode, six seventy seven of the sleeper in the buzzed. It is Wednesday April twenty fourth. I'm your host more. And I am flying solo today. My first solo cast in a little while. I think the last one might have been the call your shot. I am going to do them regularly during the season. This is just the first one where I had a topic ready to go and wanted wanted to jump into it. So what we're discussing today is arsenal changes so far. That's definitely something that I think you can look at early on and start to at least track. Right. It's something that can definitely, you know, flip quickly especially with some of the percentages that we're talking about here. You know, they throw a handful of of whatever pitch it is in their next outing. And all of a sudden it's only down two percent or it's up fifteen percents that of six percent. They're still noisy as everything is. But we gotta talk about something. Right. We got we got to see what's going on out there. We cannot and I repeat this mantra lot early on. But we cannot just sit on our hands doing nothing, and I don't wanna do that. So what I've done is. I've taken all the information of pitchers. What was my innings threshold should've remembered this? I'd made this data e yesterday the twenty third, and I didn't know if I was going to do a piece or a pod with it. And now as you're hearing, it's a pod. I think it was a they have one hundred innings last year. And then so far this year like fifteen or twenty innings, but if they didn't make the one hundred days last year that doesn't matter that that's what we're looking at here as as the important factor is the one hundred innings. Excuse me from twenty eighteen to kinda give us a base to go off of and for some reason. This. Oh, no. Oh, goodness. My spreadsheet is being wack and can't do anything with it. And that's not gonna make for quality podcasting considering the bulk of that data is on this this. There we go freak out should edit that out not gonna do it. All right. So here's what we're going to do. We're primarily looking at ten percent more or ten percent fewer. Of each particular pitch. The one exception is the very first one here where we're going to be looking at five percent or more fastballs. Because nobody's throwing ten percent. Fewer fastballs than they did last year. So let's just dive in with fastballs and talking about some guys that are making some big changes there, and we see with everyone or with the not everyone in the the general theory in the game to get away from the fast ball. We actually do see some guys leaning into there's a bit more at the very top. We have David price and Patrick Corbin there. Plus eight percent on their fastball usage. They're definitely the two highest guys right now. And of course, both and found some success to it's not necessarily because of this. But it is interesting. You know, one of the key factors that we've been seeing from so many guys when they make sweeping changes, including Corbin himself. Just last year is that they get away from the fastball. To see to see a couple of guys who are adding a little bit of fastball usage and still finding a boatload of success early. On is pretty interesting Corbin is still writing that that slider. A thirty six percent clip that is down from forty one percent. So a lot of the change has come out of that side and the curveball as well, which was kind of a show me curve. Last year was a nine percent patriots down to five percent this year. It's also slower by the way, just doesn't kind of an interesting note from seventy two and a half to sixty eight and a half but his fastball sitting at ninety one still for Patrick Corbin has amplified up to fifty six percent that is a three year high. So he's finding some success with it. I wonder if maybe something in Washington clicked, I always wondered this sort of stuff, and it's easy to speculate on it. But you never know because I have heard other players say that this isn't true that not every guys out to share. And just say, hey, I seen I've seen this or I've got this. And it might help you believe it or not, you know, not. Everyone is out there. Trying to first off some guys just aren't comfortable with planet. Simple. They don't feel. They can teach our impart anything on anybody. But others are just like no off got this. This the doggy dog world. I know we're teammates. I wish you the best. But I'm not giving you my tips and tricks. So I don't know if anything happened where somebody on the Washington staff. I on the field or in their coaching staff said, hey, Patrick, you can get a few more fastballs cook in and it's not going to take away from your business. Let's see what we got here. And it could just be early noise. You know? So it is something to monitor. I think there's going to be much bigger changes in some of these arsenal developments here as we get into the other pitches. So I'm not just going to say every time could just be noise. Could just be noise. Could just be because that's a garbage podcast. I will say it's increasing for Patrick Corbin. I start it was fifty six percents. Then it went back down to fifty percent. Fastball usage, then fifty five fifty seven sixty one. And that sixty one unsurprisingly was in Coors. So he has experience out there more. So than a lot of other guys maybe on the nets because he comes from the west with Zona, and he understands as well as anybody that you're going to win out there with the fastballs, by the way, little tangent on that. I had this wrong for years. And I I thought that the big Coors hangover effect dealt predominantly with breaking balls and how they wouldn't break much at. Home. And so, you know, you kinda hammer them lot of hanging breaking stuff, and you can just kinda beat it around the yard and drop in heads. And of course, go yard. And then when you leave when you leave Colorado go on the road, you're starting to see stuff break at a much better clip. And so that was what fueled the proverbial Coors hangover effect. That is not true. There's some of that. But the course hangover effect is fast ball related. So that is interesting to me, they are the absolute worst. And I think the last I can't remember what the data was that. I searched I think it was the last three years pull us. So it'd be from sixteen into the first month of this year, they're dead ass last in fastballs. On the road and tops at home. Which by the way, I just I found extremely interesting. I'm looking something up right now. So I apologize for the for the kind of disjointed train of thought here. But I really wanna find it. Okay. So let's see I noticed that they go from first against fastballs at home to thirtieth versus them on the road. And so I had all wrong that was a text. I I was reading there. So by the way, doesn't that run contrary to what I said about corporate using fastballs. At at course field. That's interesting. Maybe he thinks that slider wouldn't be as affective nevertheless for corporate specifically he was successful out there. He had a baseline quality start actually a little bit better than that. Because only three of the only two of the three runs were earned six strikeouts. One walk in his six innings. So anyway, that's Patrick Corbin. He's up David prices up on his fastball usage as well. You know, he's not been somebody who's been afraid to use his his fastball. It was down last year to forty seven percent. He's actually kinda see-sawed with Boston forty nine fifty nine forty seven fifty five with the fastball usage where it really has come out of has been the cutter. So he's going to be in in one of the big cutter drops by a lot. Now. I do wonder if there's some classification melding there with price because you know, maybe some of the straighter cutters. His cutters at eighty nine in his fastballs at ninety. Three on average. So those are distinctly different. But there's probably a blend point in there where maybe maybe there's a little bit of classification to. I don't know for sure. But nevertheless, he's been successful. I'm digging it as a longtime David price, backer. His velocities holding firm. It was at ninety two seven last year at ninety two five this year. It's gotta strikeouts way up with swinging strike rate. Backing it up to going from nine point six last year to thirteen percent this year on David prices. Swing strike. Great fueling a thirty two percent strikeout rate easily career-high if he can hold it. Let's see what is getting chases his chasing. It's up in imperceptible amount from thirty one to thirty two percent, not really anything that we're going to say is is crazy there. But the first pitch strike rate is up. So he's getting ahead. And then getting swings and misses and that is fueling the early strikeouts for David price. So those are two big guys up and fastballs. We also have Noah Syndergaard Trevor Bauer. Our Jacob degrom. No cigars up six. And then Trevor our Marco Estrada. Jacob degrom Jose Ranya and Cole hamels are all up five percent. I'm just going to mention them really not going to dive in on any of those five percent. I know fastball is the most used pitch. So it's it's it's something. But it's it's not really something that I think is is worth going crazy on right now because it is at the lower end of of a of a boost their now, let's go to the other end though and talk about guys who have dropped ten plus percentage points off of their fastball usage from last year. And see if we find anything interesting there. Tops right now. Our Joey Casey and Chris Stratton at minus fifteen percent. Chris straton? Sorry, justin. But who cares? But Joey Lucchessi seems to have peeled back on its fastball usage in favor of a cutter. So he would he would definitely appear on the cutter list here. But I'm going to kind of I'm gonna cover that. Now, he has plus ten percent on the on the cutters for Joey Casey. And I think it's a new pitch. I believe it's just a flat out new pitch. Yeah. He's using it ten percent on the button. And it's not something that he used last year. Now, it is the exact same speed as his fastball. So whereas I was talking about it with David price. I think even more so you can have a classification melding with Joey Lou Casey's fastball and cutter little bit of extra cut. They're, you know, making it more distinct cutter, but I'm not sure that it's all of a sudden this this this new pitch. And then of course, he has that chirp that fastball changeup hybrid as well. He's all about those hybrids. So he's got a a funder fastball cutter. And it's true love. So he's got four pitches packed into two for Joey Lucchessi. But you know, what he's been it's been pretty successful the four three era. One thirty whip doesn't scream major success. But I love the underlying skills right now. Twenty five percent strikeout rate. Eight percent walk rate twelve percent swinging strike and that all adds up to a fifth that's at two ninety three. He's curbing the homers. Remember last year, they will really high and that was the big issue with Lucchessi. He's down at point seven homers per nine and eleven percent home at a fly ball rate is is average. So if he stays down in that range and doesn't get into last year's twenty percent territory. Then I think the homerun suppression Israel and a big change has been cut down in hard contact rate for Lucchessi from forty one percent to twenty seven percent. So I think we're seeing some changes here that you can believe in and with the area whip combo not particularly sexy at four thirty three one thirty. He's someone to buy. He had a twelve run into outing. Stint there. The giants of all teams ripped him in San Francisco. One of the more maddening outings of the year. I put it on a par with like the Zach eflin in Miami. It's like when you're using these mid tier guys in their best in their best starts, and they don't take advantage. It's so frustrating because we have so many of the top guys struggling anywhere. Would you? You don't really expect? And of course, they're going to have their bad starts like anybody. But I need my top guys to go off. So that I can supplement it supplement their foundation with these mid tier guys. So when they blow a start like that it's very frustrating. And then Colorado got him at home for five runs albeit in seven innings for Lucchessi. But then he bounced back recently with five and two thirds and eight strikeouts against Cincinnati just three days ago. So that's Joey Lucchessi dropping a lot of fastball usage down. Fifteen percent. Another guy with all due respect that we're not really going to dive into is minus thirteen percent for Nova Ivan Nova of the White Sox, and I'll also kind of clear. Out. Another piece is that his slider is up the most at twenty percent because it's a new pitch. He did not have a slider last year. This year has got a eighty six mph slider. That is using a twenty percent clip. Let me see bearing any fruit got walloped by by Baltimore the other night. So I go with. No. But let's see eight forty shouldn't even spent this much time on Ivan Nova sorry about it done to other guys at minus thirteen percent on their fastball usage along with Nova are Chris sale and Trevor Richards now with Richards. It's very similar to the Lucchessi thing in that. He seems to have created a cutter here. I don't think it is a new pitch. Did you have one last year? No, he did not. So his eleven percent cutter is new for Trevor Richards. But it's where differs from Lucchessi is that it's a distinct v low level it's ninety one mile per hour fastball. Eighty six mph cutter seventy. Excuse me, eighty mile per hour curve, and then his eighty three mile per changeup. So now, he's got he's got four bands of velocity, which isn't bad when you when you top out at ninety one to still really have several different bands of is pretty good. It's probably closer to three bands. You can kind of say that the change in Qatar. They're close three to four miles per hour. It's it's in that it's in that gray area. Is it really all that different? But you go from let's just call it low nineties mid mid to low eighties to low eighties high seventies low eighties. That's three bands at least for Trevor Richards. So that's kind of intriguing of course, his strikeouts. Have continued to really be successful and made him one of the the more intriguing middle tier guys so far this year with a three seventy two area. One twenty four whip and twenty that's actually down at twenty three hundred strikeouts higher. It's swinging strike rate at fourteen percent that has folks believing that the strikeouts will still be there. A does have seven strikeouts in three of his five outings, and then just seven total in the other two. And so he does have a strikeout per inning or what he's one Gye. But it's only twenty three percent rate because he's walked so many guys in this is where you can really get into the difference between strikeout rate. And Cape or nine because eight point seven caper nine. You know, he's he's a stone's throw away from that that one printing one printing usually nets a twenty five percent strikeout rate with with everything else kind of being averaged there. But because he's walking so many guys he's facing more batters. So it's keeping the per nine up, but the rate isn't as affected so we'll see if Trevor Richards can cut into these walks and leverage that swing strike rate of fourteen percent even more and amplify the strikeout rate to something really special. But right now, we'll take a k per inning. And some useful starts Chris sale. Of course, you know, he's kind of been covered to death. But he is getting away from the fast ball a bit. He's also down two miles per hour on on his view low. So there's a lot going wrong with his fastball. Obviously that's been a big part of the problem with everything that he's doing and a lot of that thirteen percent has gone right into the cider which is up eight percent. And even in the rest goes to the change up. Up five percents the three pitches that sale has. Take a a shred of encouragement from yesterday's game against the Tigers yesterday being Tuesday in case, you're not listening to this. Right. When it came out Tuesday, the twenty third in that he got nine punch out or ten punch outs in five innings, but the Tigers worked them up to ninety seven pitches in five innings. I'm sorry. Like as a one off. Okay. You know, if Chris sale had four brilliant starts, and then the Tigers just kinda got him a little bit you Slough it off. And you say man, no big deal. He's still got his ten strikeouts and oil to runs, but when this is kind of his best start. That's gross. The Tigers oftens sucks like they found some success because of pitching their starting pitching has been has been one of the more interesting rotations to start the season. And they've got some staying power. I think with at least a couple of the guys namely Matt Boyd. And Spencer Turnbull, but their offense has not been doing anything of note. And in fact, right now among their starters. They only have two guys two guys that are above in eight. Plus in one of them is on the I L right now and Kristen Stewart, so you looking at Niko gooderham, no Cassiano, no Cabrera, they're not they're not doing anything. You know? I I definitely did not hate the Josh Harrison move at two mil to bring a main in bounce around the infield. And and maybe even play a little outfield and be all right. Probably be like a league average hitter kind of twenty four twenty four Dr WRC, actually, that's opiates. Sorry. I was looking at his be ref page. I imagine it similar WRC Twenty-three on WRC, plus one eighty babba me he's gonna come up. He hasn't. He probably deserves a better fate than he has for Josh Anderson. But the bottom line is too bad lineup and Grayson Greiner took sale yard. So you. You can take like a Amila shred a making up new word. You can take Millis read of encouragement out of that star. Because I think the V was up a bit and you did get your ten strikeouts. But you got to work over the Tigers man, you got to just pummel them actually excuse me. I thought the view compared to the last outing against the Yankees when he sat ninety five he was back down to ninety two seven. Now. It does stand as second best veal start of the year for Chris sale. But man as for me that said I'm holding. I'm holding firm. There's not a whole lot that you can do with Chris sale right now. It's tough. I understand that. But what are you gonna do? I mean. If you were hurt you gotta believe that he'd be on the I L short of just lying and in playing through something when you hear him talk is seems like sale is trying to work through it. And and knows obviously there's issues, but doesn't exactly know how to fix them yet. And so I think you just have to ride it out and China, let them fix it on the fly and keep them in your in your Rosser rotation last thing, I would do I just I do not subscribe to the sit a guy like this like Chris sale until good start. Because I I'm grinding out this garbage seven forty three hour, a I'm not pissing away seven strong innings on my bench. You're kidding me on that. I think that's a losing strategy. And then you would never never find me doing that. There's zero chance I'm sorry. All right. So some other guys that are getting away from their fastballs as well. At more than ten percent. A ten percent clip or. More. I should say Marcus, Stroman, Charlie Morton educationor Matt Harvey. Who cares? That's eleven percent for Stroman. Morton Jameson tie on minus ten percent Blake's. Now, minus ten percent Zach F one and Homer Bailey. And mine is ten percent is Homer Bailey came back to earth last last night in a big way. And for some reason, I weirdly got like. You were wrong tweets about that. Because I tweeted that he had been good for for a few starts like I did not in any way, shape or form suggests that you go out and just aggressively pick up Homer Bailey. I was disappointing out that he was finding some success. He'd had three really good starts and even in the bad start that he had were seven of his eleven runs were giving up. He had seven strikeouts against the Mariners. So I was just pointing out that the splitter was off the chain. And you know, things things were going well through four starts. It was not a Homer Bailey's. And all formats kinda guy. It was like this is interesting to note on it. So I mean, guys, I take I take my hits where deserve them. And if I recommend somebody and it goes down in flames. I gladly or you know, once gladly I'm not happy when I'm wrong, but I'll I'll own it and say, hey, got that one wrong. That was not. There was nothing that. Said go get our Bailey. Here we go. Everything's about pop off again. And we're going to get peak rents Homer Bailey. So yeah, he struggled. He didn't get onto the or he did go the first inning only against the against the RAZ yesterday for runs on four walks. Three heads just didn't have anything. Let's see. What is pitch mix? Look like. The slider was was failed. It was trying to trying to work that slider and it quickly wasn't work. And he threw it twenty four percent clip that's more than his last two starts combined. If you just added up, the percentages of those two, which you know, doesn't really mean anything. But the bottom line is a twenty four percent was a season high. He got away from the split finger a bit maybe didn't have the feel for early. So he was trying to go to the slider for Homer baleen. It just didn't work. I'm sure everyone's gonna cut bait. Now, I'm still gonna keep an eye on it though. Again, it's not an aggressive go out and get them. But particularly in deeper leagues where pitching is. So sparse. I'm gonna least keep an eye on it again. Because if I can if I can squeeze if you decent starts out of it. Okay. But I don't know he is leaning into that split finger more or last night being the exception for Homer Bailey and split fingers. They can be tough though, when you don't have the feel if you don't have to go to it can be. Trouble. But the guys that were more interesting in that group there were Stroman Morton, Tyrone and Snell Snell's putting his into his curve ball f win as well. Evans putting his into his slider tie. Also, putting his into a slider Morton spreading it around a bit with some cutter anchor curveball improvements, and then Stroman Stroman someone I wanna I wanna zero in on a bit here. He his name would pop up, and I'll mention it in passing just to kind of refresh my memory as we get onto some of the other pitches. But this is going to be the destroying section here. He's amplified strikeout rate. Now. Twenty three percent is not Godley by any stretch of the imagination particularly today's game. But for Marcus Stroman, it's a big boost. It's a substantial move up and his eleven percent swing strike rate is a career high. So there are some noteworthy things here, and it is getting away from his fastball which for him is generally a two seamer slash sinker, which can be interchangeable at times. But can also be distinct just kind of depends on the guy. I think I think he does kind of have both. In fact, you might even have all three if you really say a four seamer to seamer sinker for Marcus, Stroman, I think you could you know, if you really got down into into cost of occasions there, but really rides a two seamer for the most part. That's that's what you're looking at. That's what keeps the ball down and really fosters that heavy ground ball rate that you've seen Marcus Stroman that has fostered a sixty percent career rate, including sixty two percent each of the lab. Two seasons down to fifty six this year, though. And that is part of getting away from his fastball usage again down eleven percent. You know, what else is down big the cider usage. So he was a sinker slider. Two seam cider. However, you want to call it guy for for most of his career here with mixing in some other other things too. But when he was really going he's to seem or slide. Sliding you this year signs all but gone three percent by. It could be another classification thing because his his curve ball is is only two miles per hour different in view, but the shapes probably different enough to get it to be put into the curb ball bucket. Well, that's where things are really changing. Because the thirty nine percent fastball usage has given way to a thirty four percent. Curveball usage far higher than we've ever seen the highest. We've ever seen a curveball usage on. Stroman was sixteen percent back in his rookie year of two thousand fourteen. It was at fourteen percent last year. So he's all the way up to thirty four percent this year for Stroman. And that's no doubt fostering, this the strikeout surge, and we're seeing big results to one seventy six ERA one twenty four whip. Now, that's an ER a whip combo that simply doesn't add up and to me, it means that the area is going to go closer to match the the whip as opposed to the other way around because he has walking guys. A ten percent clip. His seven point six hits per nine is is solid. There's nothing inherently wrong with it for Marcus Stroman. But it's not something where I'm like. Oh, that's that's that's crazy one way or the other. So I think what the amount about is that he's giving up. Some of them are going to start to find the play a bit more. Seventy six percent left on base rate. We'll see he has tracked higher rates high rates before seventy eight percent for all of two thousand seventeen for Marcus Stroman with two hundred one innings, but that is a clear outlier right now in this career. In fact, he's struggled with it in other seasons. Sixty one percent left on base rate for Stroman in twenty eighteen sixty nine percent and fourteen and sixteen which you would think is nice. But actually is the one instance where the sixty nine percent Mark is nice. I mean, it's still nice. But it's not nice. If you catch my drift. So yeah, Stroman a little bit intriguing here. And I got. A little bit of pushback with my ranking on him recently updated. My starting pitcher rankings and got some pushback, you know, hey, what's up with Stroh? You know, we're where you got him ranked is too low. Did they rhyme? It like that. I don't think. So I didn't even mean to do that. I had him eighty seventh. He was in the shallow spot star category which ranges as high as fifty seven though. So again, I I always tell people don't get you hung up on the number. If you like him better, and you wanna more and that sixties range, that's acceptable. I get that. I had them write lower. 'cause I hadn't really investigated him to be honest. When I when I rank one hundred twenty guys I didn't get to do a deep dive on all one hundred twenty freely admit that. And so sometimes it's a cursory. Look, I I have a concept of how everyone's doing in in some way, shape or form. I rarely ranked somebody that I just don't know what's going on with them at all in a given year. But I hadn't deep dove on on Stroman to see these arsenal chain. Of some kind of keep an eye on them if he can add some strikeouts. Let's say gets to like a three seventy one twenty four ERA whip combo with a twenty three percent or better strikeout rate. I'm in on that. And that would facilitate a move up the rankings without a doubt. So this was interesting. He was one of the more intriguing guys Marcus Stroman was in terms of arsenal changes again peeling out of the fastball and slider both at double digit rates. Eleven percent on the fastball and thirteen percent of the cider and funneling all almo- almost all little bit into the change in cutter, but nothing really worth discussing. But a twenty one percent jump in his in his curveball usage for Marcus Stroman. So that was interesting there. Let's see I think that covers everyone in the fastballs there as far as going up and down. Now, let's move over to the sliders and looking at guys with ten percent or more ten percentage points or more. And I talked about Ivan Nova he as a new slider. It clearly hasn't helped he has eight forty seventy are a so maybe just put that back on the shelf and never look at it ever again in your wife, but we do have a handful of other guys who have all added. I'm look I'm just checking the CR or any of these new sides. No, these are all additions. So we've got a group of guys adding ten percentage points or more. And by the way, I'm gonna post the list as kind of the show, notes and. It goes, maybe I should change it. But. I'm probably not going to. I'm just going to be honest with you guys. So on the ten percent or more. It goes from highest to lowest but on the ten percent or less actually know what you know what I won't do. I'll just redo it. And I'll include the percentage changes because otherwise it's not really useful to list. So them never mind. What I was gonna say there. Anyway, you've got ten Roark Jamison tie on both. Plus sixteen percent Zach Efren Carl's Don both plus thirteen percent. Joe must grove Chris Stratton, plus twelve percent. I mentioned that Stratton was one of the fastball droppers he's putting in mostly into his slider. I don't think it's delivering any sorta results kind of Nova ask this year. So nothing really to care about their Herrmann. Marquez Brad Keller. Derek holland. And Robbie Ray are all plus ten percent. So let's focus in on a few of these guys. Now, I mentioned Jamison Tyrone as a fastball guy. Kind of glossed over him dropping his fastball usage enhancing that slider. There was some surprise that. I kept him ranked so high based on his start, but I don't really see any reason to back off right now the strikeouts. Haven't been there yet. In fact, is eighteen percent clip is is lower than ever before. It's the lowest of his career, but his eleven percents when you strike rate is a career high, and he is putting more into that slider. So for me, I see strikeouts coming. I I would think so they really haven't been there yet four five four four three. That's that's pretty bland. But the results have been great nonetheless, he has three twelve ERA and a one twelve whip for Jameson Tyrone, not walking anybody who's not really allowing many hits homers. Everything's there. In fact, he only has a fifty five percent left on base. Imagine if he was stranding runners at at his seventy five percent career. Clint then all of a sudden we're talking about. And even lower Yarra perhaps. And so I think they're still subside here, and I'm not I'm not getting away from Jameson Thanh at all. And he did jump. He is jumping deeper into that slider now at thirty four percent usage. So as he kinda continues to really refine that and turn it into a hopefully premium pitch. I think we'll see the strikeouts start to come forward. So I'm still in on Jameson town easily. It's not even really a question for me colonels dawn didn't quite make the fastball droppers list because he was only minus nine percentage points. But we do see his slider usage tricking up. Tricking up. What the hell trickling up? I was gonna say, but it's not really tricky. It's kind of surging up. So I don't know where I came up with tricking. But it's plus thirteen percentage points to a career high thirty nine percent. And this is something I've been wanting to see Karl show, Don, he somebody. I've always liked and I've repeated this a few times on the show last year. I was I was in on him from a far I like the idea of him. I want to see Karl on be successful. But I wasn't really investing because of the volatile nature of it because you weren't really getting a whole lot. The strike outs were down because I saw a guy who's just still kind of figuring it out. And so I kind of wanted him to figure it out on on other clubs, and then jumping well, maybe I should have jumped into draft season this year. He might he might be actually figuring it out. He's off to a really fast start with the two eighty ninety or a and a one eleven whip Twenty-nine percent strikeout rate no-doubt tied to that. Enhanced slider usage, which is has been great for mardi. Delivering a seven point zero pitch value, which doesn't necessarily mean it's going to hold that way. Just tells you the results with the side of this far have been strong for Karlskrona on. We've seen him, you know, work different bits of his game recently as he kind of figures out what to do against righties work, some up in fastballs and get pop ups and really keep them off balance. Maybe don't get as many strikeouts. As we saw. The strike outs were taken away last year down to a career-low eighteen percent. But then this year, we're seeing that he is still getting righties out at a very strong clip but also getting strikeouts against them. It's up to twenty nine percent against them as well that he hasn't even face that many lefties so the bulk of this surge he only has sixteen plate appearances against lefties calls or not. So this is this is defeating righties. This is what sustaining his success, which makes it more encouraging than anything else to be quite honest. Because if it was just, you know, he'd happened to run into a bunch of teams that had no choice, but to use a below. Lefties. Would it would it would take it would take a little bit of steam out of the five stars for road on? And yet here we are. We're putting up a one ninety six to eighty to seventy two against righties with thirty strikeouts. One hundred three plate appearances. I'm really liking. What I'm seeing here. He still walks guys. But part of that is by design. It's it's it's more of an extreme example. But it's what we talk about what we want Shane Bieber to do which is not be afraid to just walk a guy and continue to throw competitive pitches on the corners and not just lay something fat in the middle of the zone that can get tattooed when you're in a bad count for yourself re rack and trying to get the next guy out. And he's absolutely have been doing that Carl's Don has and in addition to that, I can definitely take these walks when he's not allowing homers. That was part of the problem was he would allow the walks, but then maybe the rack wouldn't work the next guy went into run home or maybe even three run Homer. And so with homers up at a. One point one clipper higher each of the last three seasons for crossroad on. It was it was tough. And that's what kind of kept him in the low force. Which by the way, speaks to the fact that. In a weird way. The fact that he was at four oh four four one five and four eighteen year as was kind of impressive to me for calls on because he had metrics of somebody who could have been much worse. Like things had a chance to go sideways when you're allowing that many homers, and that many walks, but it just shows that he did get out of some jams, and then he could be difficult to hit at times, and that his stuff was still peeking through at premium level here, and they're just not at a sustained level. We may be getting that sustained level this year out of Carlos ro Don, I'm very intrigued early on. And he's definitely somebody who took a nice little jump in my rankings. In fact, I had him up to the usually start category. So he only moved up nine spots for March, which by the way, a lot of folks. And I almost did I don't know why didn't just go through with it. I was going to post a difference from March thing in the chart, so you could've seen where they or they moved and I didn't do it. And now I've made chain. Changes since that ranking. So here's the thing. Do I go update that post with with the updated or with the sense, March changes and then? You end up seeing some different rankings. And I have to explain that all again or do. I just hold off maybe another week and do a completely new post. I'm feeling like the ladder is the right move there. And I will have it should dang it. I need to make sure that I have it since April now too. So you can see how they've changed since this. Most recent ranking update part of the reason though that I would like to keep it separate from margin. The reason I ended up not doing that. With the with the chart was the preseason rankings are a little bit different than once you get into season. I was kind of looking at the grand scale of things and ranking that way, and you you have some guys that you don't know if they're going to get in the rotation. So they're ranked like one forty but once they're in a rotation, they shoot all the way up to seventy just on the fact that they got the spot, you know. And so I don't know that showing that difference is is as useful. As some might think. It's however going forward now from April Demet for May June etcetera etcetera, I do think that a column with with difference from the last ranking would be useful. So I think that's what I'm going to do. Let me know either on Twitter or in the comments of this podcast post. How you feel about that? If you agree with it. If you think it's ridiculous or or what have you? But I think that's what we're going to do. But anyway, the point there was that Rodion did move a tear. Oh, by the way, one of the thing I wanted to point out because I was talking about with regards to the margarines the NC's rankings aren't necessarily rest of season because I'm going to do another ranking. And I think trying to think that term is pointless. What is the point of that so much is going to change? So we're talking about kind of the here. And now these are four to six week rankings because we're going to get more data guys are gonna get hurt. Guys are gonna have role changes guys are gonna have arsenal changes velocity. Changes. So what really is the point of being so rest of season focused, obviously at the top end. You know, you're still really focusing on the long term because you're not going to make stark changes on. You know, like a like a Chris sale you're going to trust that track record in the elite guys. But once you get into like, I don't know twenty five thirty it starts early this year. All. What does it? Why do we really wanna be so rest of season focused, go her mind somebody in love, and the only thing that really was standing between him and and and me drafted him in every single league was a rotation spot. Then of course, every Yankee ever gotten hurt. And now he has a spot and some leeway on a spot to like some some runway to really get going and establish himself. So he shot all the way up to forty four. But of course, say okay, what was the season is forty four. And you treat them as that now here on April twenty fourth. Everyone comes back her mom falls on hard times. And all of a sudden he's out of the rotation. Like, I just don't know if I see the value. So I look at these really as four to six week rankings as opposed to getting so rest of season focused. If you disagree with that notion, I'm open to a debate on it to really kind of talk through it. But I think we should be a little bit more focused on on chunks of time. Again, not. Next seven day rankings. We're not gonna go that volatile with everything. But schedule matters to, you know, sofa guys got a friendly scheduled coming up or a team does because you can never really know for sure how a guy's gonna have. But if a team has, you know, a bunch of games in the AL central coming up and their guys are likely going to get a bunch of starts there. Well, they might move up the rankings because of that for that time period. But that doesn't mean that the rest of the season they're there. And so yeah, anyway, I just wanted to get that point in that these aren't necessarily something that you should really be looking at as you know, I'm committed to these through September. Because in that case, I wouldn't update them like what would be the point of updating them so four to six weeks anyway, pardon the tangent. Their bottom line is Carl done doing well backing it with some real changes. And giving me something to believe in that. I think he'll move up even again within the usually start here at the next update. All right. So moving on then sticking here with the sliders. Let's talk a little bit about Joe moss growth. He's up twelve percent on slider usage, and it's really come pretty much from cutters and fastballs now, I think they're. Again, this is become a popular refrain here. But it's you know, we're we're gonna we're gonna note it when it when it could be there. But I think that there was some melding of cutters sliders in his classifications over the years as well. Now, very distinct velocities eighty four for the signer eighty nine last year for the cutter, it's an eighty two and eighty seven this year. So putting them together they're not just in one bucket. Like, it's not that close. But again there can be some overlap on the fastest sliders in the slowest cutters. That said I do think we're seeing a true change here for Joe must grove. Because he's at twenty eight percent on the side or usage of this year. And just six percent on the cutter. And like, I said the cutters down to two miles per hour on v low, and so I think we are really seeing a change here to highlight what he wants to do with that slide piece, and it's bearing some very nice fruit. You know, his swing strike great sat at eleven twelve percent. The last two years for Jonas grove suggesting that there could be some strikeout upside. Well, he's able to find another jump to thirteen percent this year and he's got a career best twenty four percent strikeout rate. He's still not walking guys and this year, so far he's not allowing hits at much very high five point seven hits. And he was a bit hidden -able throughout his career thus far allowing about a hit parenting for Jonas. Now, he doesn't have to thirty three Bab that you know, we should feel definitely gonna go up a bit. Although I do really like the addition of coal Tucker to the. To the defense arrogance Alice's pretty much I go too. So it's not necessarily an addition in terms of pure pure defense. It added from Gonzales to Tucker, but I liked that Tucker's glove is premium. So is either as good or better than dolls and Tucker can add a little bit of offense to help support not just Moscow, but the other pitchers on that ball club as well. So yeah, he's not going to continue to allow it to thirty three Babbitt. I definitely think we'll see that trickle backup. But hopefully, it can can have a new career high or career-best I should say because he's been at twenty nine three fifteen to ninety four the last three years for Joe Moscovici can put up like a two seventy something like that. Then he really is going to keep the hits down. The homers are way down to four percent Homer to five all rain is definitely helping that. I would expect that to move back toward toward his average. In the last year was at ten percent home to fly ball and point nine homers per nine. That's fine. That's workable. And if he's not allowing hits or walks than he's going to be fine. Anyway, those aren't going to be damaging home runs more often than not for Joe grow. So I like what he's doing a lot. I'm really big on him. He was somebody that I was trying to scoop in as many spots as I could and got him all the way up and. Like thirty something I think pardon me, twenty nine how dare besmirched the great Joe Moscow. But you are by what he's doing. This is somebody I really thought could be a breakout. And I really dig what's going on with him. All right. As far as these other slider movers. I think I think we've well, okay. Actually couple others. I do want to touch on here Herrmann. Marquez is a ten percent on hit percentage points on the his. And it's really come out of what's see the change of and the fastball about five percent in each. Does. He won what kind of chained up? Does. He really have by the way, her mom Marquez's. Throwing right now. He's a lot three runs and three and two thirds against the nets in Colorado. We'll see how the rest of that start pans out. But you know, he's pretty much been as expand. Yeah. Okay. I thought it doesn't really throw much of a change up. It was it was it was like show me pitch. Anyway last year at six percent now it's down to two and a half percent. But it just funneled the rest of those back into the slider and also taking a little bit of a little chunk out of his fastball in popped more ciders. He's obviously been amazing on the road and sputtered a bit at home. Gee could have never. Seen that. That's that's wild. You don't usually sit only one of the runs has been earned so far in in those three runs, by the way in today's start. But you know. I. I get I get every time. He beasts on the road to like. God him. Digit because I didn't say that. He couldn't be great on the road. He's been fantastic on the road. That's awesome. It's all about what he can do at home, and he's gone five innings both times at home allowing seventeen hits and seven runs. So sweet. And you know, we'll see again, we'll see what he does today. And he's going to have good starts at home to like there's going to be some good starts. I don't think he's going to get pummeled every time. But my point was. Guys, don't really defeat course. And I haven't really seen him defeating course so far at any sort of sustain level nevertheless, throwing more ciders. I think that's a positive from our Cassie does have to breakers, and he can really rely on. And when you have the two breakers like that you don't really need a change up. And so that's why that really isn't a problem that he doesn't have the change up. Let's see Derek, Holland is throwing more sliders, and that's coming out of his curve and change and Brad Keller leaning into his slider. He's a sinker slider guy for sure, but he is taking some those sliders putting them into the sinker. Although we're not really seeing anything to different outta bed Callard than what we saw last year, which it's still a little flimsy in terms of having the solid are a this year is at three forty one from three. Oh eight and the whips down a little bit from one thirty to one twenty four, but he's walking more guys. So it's it's it's a six percent strikeout might just walk rate. In fact, his strikeout rate at nineteen percent is completely completely completely completely fueled by attend strikeout outing against Cleveland like that is the driving force behind his. In fact, it's worth thirty five percent of the strikeouts. He's had already this year. He's gone five five three three three in his other five start. So I don't buy that. At all, you know, he's ground ball guy strand runners, but a to Twenty-eight Bab isn't gonna last I'm selling the hell out of Brad Keller right now, you are you are playing with fire. Good good, folks. If you still have him, and you're starting in with any confidence brand Keller and be very careful. Derek Colin was somebody that I guess questions about with my ranking on him, and it was just a miss, and I'm frustrated by it because I consider myself. A Holland believer really liked what he did down the stretch last year. I was using them in some leagues. Now, he is in the in the spot starts here. So it's not like he would necessarily move way up from that. It's just that. I wanted to highlight him a bit more see where I had him ranked. Let me pull that up very quickly because I think I've already made a change on my main page, so I have to go. Back to the. He was ninety three. No, he was in the and that was the problem. He was in the deeply spot start here at ninety three. He was someone. And I mentioned this earlier about how I can't dive just didn't get to. That's just on me. My my failing there on on not getting Derek Holland up to where he belongs. I've got him. Now at seventy something hang on finding again, I've got him at seventy on the button right now. And so, you know, he's going he's going to stay there. Maybe even trickle up a little bit more keep saying trick said tricked earlier, and I keep wanting to say that I don't know why I don't know why that's become my my crutch phrase of this episode at any rate. I've got Holland at seventy I like what he's doing he solid. He's got a great home part to lean on you should be using them in a lot of leagues. And just kind of, you know, getting quality quality work on on of him. He's not going to change your your rotation. Like crazy and be like, holy crab. Derek Collins, really. Staining me, but the four thirty-three as obviously pretty high but at one twenty two wimp and thirty one percent strikeout rate. I think he's got one or two stars that are really pushing things up as far as his home run rate actually the home run race, pretty consistent. But he has six in his five starts. That's a two point. Oh Homer night. Like, that's not even crazy though. It's just that. That's how noisy things can be right now is that we can still have a situation where it's getting absolutely trounced, but six homers and twenty seven innings that's a lot. But then all of a sudden you go one outing where you only allow you don't allow a single Homer in seven innings and you're down to one five. And so, you know, that's still going to move quite a bit. I don't think he's gonna continue awhile homers and a two point oh clip for Derrick hall and a twenty one percent home in a fly ball. I do like the strikeouts. I love him at home on start there. And then kind of played by year on the road with. With Holland Robbie Ray, adding more sliders coming out of his curve ball. He kinda is when he is. I'm not really anything on that. All right. This is going to be like a ten hour pod. If I keep going at this pace. So cutters is pretty quick one. Here. There are only three guys that are up ten ten percentage points or more in only two that are down ten percentage points or more the three up our Trevor Richards Tyson Ross, Joey Casey, we already talked about Casey adding that new cutter and trim, Richard. So and sorry Tyson Ross, I'm not sure that you married a real deep dive here right now. And then as far as those who are down on their usage, we have Jonas grove David price, and we already talked about them. So that knocks out a pitch really quick. I will say this. I will actually give a little a little bit of love to Tyson. Ross doesn't have a three thirty eight era and a one twenty five whip isn't he on the I'll right now though or my tripping on that let me see. Are you held good, sir? Matt Moore, pardon me, pardon me. But yeah, ease. The those those ratios are good. But can you really believe in them? When you're looking at a seventeen percents strikeout rate nine percent walk rate. Eight percent swinging triggering the last three years it's been six nine eight for the swinging strike rate for Tyson Ross, he just doesn't miss bats anymore. And he is allowing too many homers. It should come back down a bit with a twenty one percent of fly ball rate. But I don't buy that at all. So peace out on on Tyson. Ross foreshore let's move over to curve balls. We aren't talking about Marcus Stroman doing what he's doing with his curve ball. He's up. What did I say? Like twenty percent yet twenty one points Tyson. Tyler Molly is up twenty one points. I believe that's a pretty new curb? Yeah, he threw it one one percent of the time last year. So he threw a couple. So it's up twenty points. I guess, but it's basically a new curve that he's brought in in lieu of his change. In fact, he's really he's really changed things. Let's talk about Tyson Tyler Molly sorry, I keep calling Tyson because on Tyson Ross's page Tyler Molly of the reds. Let's talk a bit about him. He's got a twenty five twenty six percent strikeout rate. Four percent walk right? Those are fantastic. Don't really have the underlying support for the strikeouts though with just ten percent swinging strike rate and is chase rates down to. So I'm like, how are you really doing this? His his first pitch strike rate is up a little, but there's nothing here that really supports that kind of strikeout surge. So I would call that flimsy and a nine strikeout outing when you only have four starts can really help that. In fact, he's got five seven three and nine so two really good and to pretty mediocre. They're the eight strikeouts. The five in the three are in twelve innings combined. So that's that's bland is how that's not that's not worthwhile. But then the sixteen in eleven innings so do not buy into that strikeout rate right now out of tower, Molly. But let's talk about what he's doing with his pitch mix. Okay. So he's a shoot. His slider for curve ball. I I would not think that this is a total. Total cost of -cation thing. Because the view is different. We're talking three miles different. And there's been no sliders logged. So it would be kind of weird to say that it's just a cost of -cation thing if there's literally no sliders logged by the by the systems here. Let's see we go to another system just to check. Yeah. They're not showing anything with sliders. Let me go down to pitch info. No. They were used pinch of pitch FX. Okay. So here we go pitch. X actually says it's still a slider. But Brooks and pitch info say it's a curve. So I don't know. I actually I don't know now Tyler Molly, whether he has switched breaking balls from the side or to the curve, but I do know that he has moved from straight change to a split finger. It's up four miles per hour. Still an eleven percent pitch. It's not something to use his crazily. But if it is a new curveball, there's at least some sort of shape difference. There has to be for what has always been a slider for him to be classified as a curveball. So I definitely think that there's something different with the breaking ball on Tyler, Molly. And then, of course, the change up being being classified as more of a split change. Now is interesting too. There's there's something to keep an eye on remember being intrigued by him. I have to talk with Iino. We know about him a few years back, and we kind of kept an eye on. And nothing really came of it particularly last year when you had a four ninety eight era in one fifty nine whip things were really problematic this year. It's at three fifty to one twenty six I could buy those those ratios potentially being what he does whether or not he can maintain anything close to the strike rate is my question Mark on on Tyler, Molly. Oh, hey, shar dog Charlotte here to check out the pod what's going on? What are you doing? She's just trying to climb into my lap. Here. I want to be on the show. You just hit the space bar? Putting up to the money breathe into the Mike. Let them know you're here. Those were her nails. Really works to bring your dog onto an audio podcast really really getting the full full deal here. Anyway, chard did you have any thoughts on these pitch arsenal changes? No. Okay. Cool. Anyway, sorry about that little interruption from the pup that's Tyler Molly may have some major changes or maybe just be a little bit of noise sticking with the curve balls though. We also have Tyler glass now bumping his up fifteen percentage points from last year, and that's come out of his slider and fastball. He's only down five percentage points in the fastball. But this slot excuse me in the fastball down five but down eleven in the signer. So he's really kind of moved more to occur from his slider. Let's take look at glass. Now, this is one I've had my concerns with glass now. But I've I've always maintained to that. If I do see some changes to believe in I'm going to adjust with those changes, I have no reason to be hard lined here. And just dig in my heels, it's can I never can see Pat. Success for Tara glass. Now, I've been concerned that he can't maintain his mechanics because of the a lot of due to the height being difficult to keep your height in line, and to repeat your mechanics often we've seen it with a lot of pictures that doesn't mean that no tall pitchers have ever succeeded. However, when you name when the first thing, you go to when I say that is Randy Johnson, you do sound very stupid. Just so, you know, when you when you name one of the very best pitchers ever as like, whoa. Yeah. What about Randy Johnson? I don't take you seriously at that point. I say, wow. That was a very stupid take you shouldn't have said that you should say better things. But there are plenty of other guys who have found success. And so again, I don't rule it out for glass now. And I have been very intrigued by the fact that he has just a five percent walk rate. So far backed by sixty eight percent first pitch strike rate than he's getting in the zone more. So than we have seen early on just through five starts, a LA. Lot of changes that would foster control gains that are believable while still maintaining his ability to miss bats, and very electric clip. Yielding twenty six percent strikeout rate. So I moved glass now up again, I'm not gonna hardline here. It makes no sense. It just makes no sense. I'm not going to do it. So we're seeing changes here. I buy it those that bought in on spec. Congratulations so far because this is going very well for you. Now for me, we've seen three four five starts of goodness before what I'm really looking for on a next level situation is where we will month from now when we're another five six seven starts deep is he still holding it? And then then you're going to see me moved. How a glass now, you know, it doesn't have to be at this clip. A one fifty three point ninety two ERA whip combo, obviously, I'm not holding them to that standard. But if the walkway continues to be impressive for glass now and his first pitch strike and his. Zone rate, and he's still getting chases. And all that even as the moves up. Then you're going to see me putting him in the top twenty top twenty five again, I'm going to be open to doing that. And so I thought that the speculation was a little bit aggressive because I just wasn't really seeing it. I'm eager to see where we go from here. You know, he did he even when he started well last year with Tampa Bay when he got after the trade, it wasn't it wasn't like this because even after one walk in his first seven innings with them. He was at two three and three so just just right away. Then after his first two starts he had a twelve percent walk right in his next three. So this is a five percent walk right over five start small sample. But I'm intrigued by Glaus now. And we are seeing more curves in the mix in lieu of a slider, which is more or less shelved. And he's really going fastball. Curveball now if you aren't going to have a change up or third pitch to really work against opposite. Handers a curve ball is the right pitch to have to kind of keep them off balance. But it is a two pitch pitcher right now. So keep an eye on that. But I was what I've seen glass now so far and he's made me look foolish. But I'm here. I'm here for a new ways I'm here for and if it sticks. Let's keep a close eye on it. Let's see on the down curve balls. Actually, two others that are just to mention them real quick Jay code plus twelve percent. That's come out about this lider and cutter and Blake snow. The ten percent drop in his fastball rate has gone right into the curve, and he was a little bit wobbly today coming back from that toe injury. I do have to wonder if the toe impacted him at all and Casey got to him a little bit. But not really concerned about it. We'll just see if maybe needs more time with the toe, and maybe the five days, we'll do it. Or is it something more? You know, you're going to require a bit more than that. I don't know. But I do I do love what we've seen outta Blake Snell backing up his sei-yung from last year. All right, only one big drop in curveball usage. And that's actually Trevor Bauer who's down fourteen clicks from what he did last year, and he's really sprinted out plus five on his fastball. Plus four on his cutter, plus eight on that change up that he really talked about developing in the off season. That's really kind of set him off to he's. I mean, he's picking up right where last year left off in speaking of Blake's now hito really been given a run for his money with that Cy Young had Trevor Bauer state healthy and Bowers damn near emulating everything he did last year with two twenty eight point ninety eight whip combo after last year's to twenty one one nine thirty three percent strikeout rate. So yeah, he's walking guys at a ten percent clip. I don't even care when when you're striking out like that. And you're this on hid -able, it does not matter. And so now he's got four secondary pitches that he can throw at least twelve percent of the time that is devastating including fifteen percent on that change up. Then he really honed last year was total show me throw a couple here. And there seven percent that's like nothing this year. It's a weapon and Trevor Bowers been absolutely fantastic. Moving over to change ups letters, the we're going to wrap up here pretty quickly because there's not a whole lot to go off of I didn't group them together. Because there are some splitters that aren't necessarily just split changes. But speaking of changeups only one guy up ten percentage points to my ADA up eleven and that's really come out of his entire arsenal. But predominantly his fastball, which is minus six and a handful curves. Minus three percent don't Bundy is up nine. So he's right there on that threshold that's kind of come out of his slider, though, which I don't necessarily love as far as my into goes dig it bopped around a little bit yesterday by the cubs a little bit maybe understated, but he did I like I like when you see stuff like this dig up the six runs, but he gave them up in the first two innings, and then kind of held strong enough to pitch to mornings. Those two extra tack on innings can help you know, they add up when you have guys good enough. Either have the confidence from their manager. Or maybe they're just on their off days there. Not necessarily getting absolutely torch beyond belief, but they're struggling bed and things aren't going their way, but they can still get those few extra innings. No it could've easily been to inning outing. And they just say, you know, what even given up six to eight in in two innings deuces. But he got to go gave up four. I'm not trying to make too much out of this. I'm just saying you really see it more with aces like when an ace gets pummeled. I remember this when the Tigers had like a billionaire those were the days, but now they do again with point. It's not kidding. But like with sherzer virulent Bruin, especially you know, he'd have his bad days. And he give up four in the first this is going to be a quick day. And then he's still ends up going seven, and maybe gives up another runner too. But it's like that seven ending six runs five or six runs. It's like the good guys can have that brutal inning. But still maintain and go the six seven innings more often than not and you love to see that. But anyway can to Mina getting away from his fastball. A bit slider curve and change. Like, I said the changes what's really jumped up. Year, plus eleven points, and it's been mostly successful outside of yesterday's outing that boosted area all the way to five twenty. In fact, he has to really bad outings pushing a up that high. If you look at three one five one and six, but we're still in the noises own so can tomatoes eleven runs in nine third. During those two starts at Saint Louis at the cubs has really impacted as bottom line. I would absolutely buy in on on my ADA. If someone was selling let alone shower league if they were cutting. He's always going to have his innings mitigated a bit. And maybe he's going to get a phantom. I l or necessary. I I don't know. Maybe that's maybe that's what caused his bad start yesterday. But I'm buying on Ken to my eighty here. Coupla guys that are down our Jose Rainha and Tyler Molly, I mentioned Molly earlier with Urania. I don't really think he's worth getting into. And then as far as splinters go. I mentioned molly's up being being up more than ten percentage points. And there are two other guys that maybe matter a little bit more mentioned Homer Bailey's is up. Plus ten is well, Kevin costn- plus eleven now, I think it was with Justin, by the way. I don't know if you can hear the rain, but is straight pouring here. I mentioned it either with Nick or with Justin. But on a recent episode about how Guzman really finding getting the feel for the splitter earlier than ever this year. We've seen it in so many years where it gets to that bad start then has to rally in the second half to wind up with a decent season. But then ends up trick, you know, feels like tricks us because then we buy in for the next year, and we repeat the whole process all over again, but he's rocking. Nice. Little the three hundred sixty as not going to knock your socks off. But a one wimp and twenty nine percent strikeout rate through his first four starts is fantastic. He's still been a little bit too Homer prone at one point four that's kind of the deal was split or guys though. Because even when you have the feel for it doesn't mean every single one is going to be perfect. So you're gonna miss some and those are going to be homers. So dang often. But I like what we're seeing out of Gaza. Even a thirty three percents split usage. Easily a career high tells me that he's got the feel for right off the top this year. And it's serving him well for the most part here think his is also the is also funded by one particularly bad start and that would be five earned at cincy and five hundred. They're also a foreign in five hundred against the Mets. So it's really been to excellent starts one mediocre. And then one I would just I would say that the recent one at Cincinnati just yesterday was was bad six runs. Five of them earn eight hits two homers and. To go back to my point about the homers, and how volatile that can be. You're looking at two homers in nineteen and two-thirds. Is a point nine one Homer per nine. You add those two homers in the five and in the third that he threw yesterday for Kevin Gaza. And all of a sudden he's at one four. So that's how quickly it can change still right now. And so I don't wanna go to crazy on anything like that. I do like that. He is amplifying that split or usage because it doesn't tell me that he has the feel for it. Kevin Guzman last one is Monsignor. No one's down more than ten points on their splitter usage. But Masahiro Tanaka is down eight and he's foreign away. The the biggest change nobody else's even down two points. So he's just using a little bit less tomatoes kind of forgotten guy at this point. He just kind of sits there in the in the second tier of rankings usually in your like twenty five to thirty five range and just kinda grinds it out and keep doing what he's doing. And maybe getting away from the splitter a little bit more in favor of the slider or even some of the show me pitches that he has he can kind of throw the kitchen sink catchy. But at his core it's fastball splitter slider, but the splitters down to a career low twenty two percent, if that hold I wonder if that will help maintain this point nine two Homer per nine that we're seeing which would also be a career-best maybe get a few of those homers down and then as far as more low to mid threes has opposed to mid to high threes three seventy five four seventy four outlier bad season. Three seven three fifty one to it's kinda bounced around. But if we can be more of a three thirty three thirty one twenty season with strikeouts Tanaka. That'd be really nice. I like him. He's definitely someone. I've been a fan of now for a whole minute. And I'm not against seeing the split finger change a little bit. And actually, maybe foster some that home run improvement. So they haven't guys the arsenal changes early on. Hopefully, there was some useful in this here. In terms of seeing what some guys are doing differently. And and giving you something to keep an eye on as we go forward. Let me know what you think. And I'll talk to you tomorrow with Justin.

Stroman Stroman Patrick Corbin David price Chris sale Stroman Homer Bailey Colorado Zach Efren Carl Trevor Richards Joey Lou Casey Brad Keller Tigers Derek holland Ivan Nova Yankees Chris Stratton Joe Joey Lucchessi nets Washington
Tigers Offseason Special 2019-20 Edition with Brandon Day from Bless You Boys

Painting Corners Podcast

1:39:11 hr | 1 year ago

Tigers Offseason Special 2019-20 Edition with Brandon Day from Bless You Boys

"Brennan of bless you boys joins us to talk to the Detroit Tigers. We talk about the fact that everybody in the two thousand fourteen rotations a world series. Now we talk about the farm system we talk about the current team does Karen everybody etc.. We hope you enjoy welcome to painting corners. Here's your weekly gas or all things baseball. Now here are your host Austin Hartsfield and Dave could count scheme. It wouldn't be tigers podcast if we didn't start out with the probably the biggest tiger lead of the entire off seasons of our Brennan. How's that are you? At the fact that every single person in the Tigers rotation has a world series ring now I would have been really sad if he told me kind of back in the day but as it happens like at this point you know I'm jaded and depressed and actually usually rooting for those guys to get the rings as Bentley. Only fun part of the fast for years. The only really fun part. So I'm not I've not the one to be too bitter about it. It would really suck it like you know some of these guys. If Justin Berliner had been stuck here this career number one a ring I would hate it that all right with it I you know. Maybe I'm just getting old and I've been in writing about baseball too long but I start to root for players as much as teams and all those guys are good guys It was it was cool to see Anibal Sanchez. Especially after kind of now. Look at my career was going to be over although yes of course it is also an indictment of the Tigers coaching staff. He's a weird one too because he kind of had like a revitalization finalisation with the braves last year. And then he gets this chance. Yep He's one of those guys who just Kinda got caught by the homerun revolution. You know he was a big sinker ball guy. sinker slider die and As he lost last city he just had to nibble too much to survive. Because all these guys are just going down in golf in the ball out on him and yeah the Tigers. Just couldn't figure it out I I wrote about it may deter sinker us before seamer and he did that and kind of developed the cutter as well which is the other part that helped him because his slider was just was just not working out for him anymore either so he you know he got in shape again and changes picnics. And not and that worked out but yeah it's it's frustrating as hell when someone is you know I mean I'm okay. Hey at this but like you know when you can look at and be like maybe he should stop throwing the pitch. Because it's getting killed. Anybody ever suggests this to the Guy I don't explain me. Why on his modern hall of fame invalid? Why Lou Whitaker should be healthier? I think the I mean the most basic reason is that if you look at his career war rankings just to put it in simple war terms. He he definitely belongs in there. You know that there are three or four Career second basement. Who are in the hall of fame who are below him in terms of career war? I think there's a pretty good argument. He made that he was a more valuable player. Alan Trammell was and kept his value deeper into his career Lou Whitaker always had a little bit more power on he he was sort of like to. I don't even know who I compare Alan Trammell too. 'cause they don't travel with smooth but Louisville was one of those those players who just made it looked really easy on a never really never really said much wasn't a guy who would talk to the media very much and you know his teammates. I think Canada's took that the heart and you know I'm just Kinda it stood in for him whenever that was required and yeah I mean he was just used as an all around fantastic player. Did everything well and did it. All for a really long time time like I wouldn't put him in the top fifty greatest players of all time I wouldn't say that we've been you know like feeling like it's super egregious wrong but he definitely belongs in there and I think you know he in Trammell together are pretty historic double-play combination. Like maybe the best ever. Certainly the you know the combination that did it best the longest And we're such a huge part of that eighty four team and the you know they're just an iconic payer and I remember even as a kid like looking over at like like Ryan Sambergen comparing statistics and stuff like that and you know Luebecker matched up with him and beat him. You know a lot of years so it was kind of it was kind of always in our mind that You Know He. He's a guy who should get in trammelled finally got in You know I don't think a lot of necessarily thought that was all going to happen once. Trammell and and Morris got in there that was sort of the push obviously ellen trammell in his In his speech and all that and throughout the whole year long festivity of getting inducted really really made the push and I I think in the end that's going to debt created a little bit of publicity that Lou witter liquor would never generate himself just because he's just a very retiring kind of quiet ma'am him and Yeah so I I think it's I feel pretty Catherine it's going to happen and I think honestly if you look at the if you just break down the career numbers it's it's he's not right like you know. Yeah like I said. He's not like an absolute lack but compared to a lot of other guys who were in there. He's he's definitely a guy who belongs pretty. Obviously so I think he's I. I think he's got a really good shot. I'm I'm expecting us and I probably shouldn't but I got about all right so brandon take us through this season. I know we talked about this. Pre show show the Tigers finished forty eight in one hundred and fourteen Alessio Orioles. Why seven games take us through the pain of Tiger Span During a season like this. Yeah I mean I think we're all start it helps to remember now that it's The Tigers are five seasons now for making the playoffs And I think because you know they retooled and kind of wet for it again in two thousand sixteen. I'm an an and did a few. I mean if you're going to go forward again in that situation you're GonNa do some things that look long-term foolish. They really kind of outdid themselves. While Mike Illitch was alive and as a result you know it kind of kept US hanging on. I think longer longer we had to like. I think we're really only like two years into the fan base. Really like especially like the the the kind of more casual fan really kind of absorbing and coming coming to terms with the fact that we're just not you know we're not going to get any more and are a long way from being good again so I think it took some time and I really think like this preseason was win you know heading into spring training when people were were looking for those optimistic takes hung from the beat writers and everywhere and not finding them at all anywhere where it all SORTA. They hit the fan base. That like. There's no reason to have you know. have any real expectations for the season. And you're just hoping that they do well in the draft and committee developed a few people at the major angelique level and and on the farm and I mean my my fundamental impression of this season is just how boring it was. It was just really boring. You know it was really hard to cover. It was at that thing where you have like one or two guys who are playing great you know and everybody else is just kinda sucking it up. It was you. You Know Matt Boyd. Kind of had his. You know first. Half breakout and then faded Spencer terminal you know Kinda came on but you know other than that. There just really wasn't even anything to hang our hat on Shane. Green had a great season as closer. I'm in the first half. We actually did have some some save opportunities and he was able to convert all of them all the way up. I think other than one up until the time he was traded so it was such a binary sort of thing which we're like. You know one engaged for series. The Tigers of the inland in the series are in the game. I mean and probably would pull it out if they had the lead because they had that going on and the rest of the time. There wasn't really anything to really pay attention to There just wasn't that much to watch you know there weren't too many Prospects called up. Obviously our top prospects are still you know they had twenty twenty at some point. I think a lot of them will be up next season but we didn't believe have too many really interesting guys up this season until you got August and September so I mean it was a slog. The Tigers had this knack for coming out like the first two weeks of the season and winning a whole bunch of games and getting people excited and the candidate that but this this season it faded faster than it has an seasons passed in the park was pretty empty. most of the season season. So it's you know it's just been grim. It was just a really long long season. That didn't even really have the up and downs to sort of toy with your emotions. It was just sort of like yeah. Well there's nothing on TV so let's watch for a lot of the season for those of us covering it and wants to hear me complain about it but yet it's just You know a lot of us at the site and other people I talked to. Who Do Tigers podcast right about the Tigers on other formats? You know we would all be pretty excited you you know to to be in an actual rebuild where it felt like the front office had a strategy Heads had some things that was working on was aggressively pursuing players that they liked even if they were wrong. But it's just been really passive As compared to you know people always want to drag it back to all the astros rebuild or the cubs rebuild and. It's so far divorced. From both the circumstances though to those two teams went through and just in time that yeah. It hasn't even really been that exciting like where I am hoping that next year with them. Casey is Matt Manning. Some of those guys getting in close proximity to the to the majors. That will finally at least have that that stuff to kind of Sink our teeth into because I covered the minor leagues for the for bless. You boys pretty much all season long and that was just way more way. More compelling way more interesting Ben than having to write about the Tigers at all so let's let's go ahead and jump into the positional situations. Give me one word to describe the Tigers correct catching situation and why replacement it level shelter. Sarah's Jake Raj by the way high school where actually live. Oh all right. Yeah I mean I I like Jake Rogers. I think he's he's going to need more time to hit on. He's got a lot of swing and his game and he does have some some swing flaws He's an interesting case because he coming from the Astros he had sort of like the type of modern approach or at least a Homerun era approach. That we've been kind of screaming at the Tigers for being like the the complete antithesis of you know we're still in Lloyd. mcclendon attend mcclendon lane where you know they want you to play pepper. They want you to use the whole field. They WANNA see line drives. They don't WanNa see you guys. Lean back and trying to pull pull the ball on the air and Jack Rogers came to us with that approach and so maybe and probably had is one of those guys that may be too much of that approach a little bit So baby he's a guy that they can actually improve without like totally revamping the player development system as I as I kind of wish they would do so jake. Rogers is pretty. Get behind the plate. You know there were some flaws. Though on he had quite a few pass balls this year overall both in the minors and the majors has always been regarded as a really good thrower. Really Good Framer We saw the throwing some of the other elements to his catching behind. The plate weren't so great But of course you know when a catcher gets it's called up there's kind of a whole learning curve honestly in front of them especially if your farm system doesn't prepare you well and that's you know that's kind of an ongoing theme that a lot of guys you know what they come to. They show up to the Tigers for the first call up for Stan and you can almost guarantee that within the first week. There's going to be some some comment from Ron Gardenhire about you know. Well you know we'd like to see guys play a certain way we need to see the fundamentals. Be More sound than this. You know Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and. That goes with an end but no one ever seems to get to the point of A. Why aren't they picking up all the fundamentals in the farm system like why? Why do they get here? You have to you know. Teach them to but they. Yeah just like you know. Kennedy's fundamental fundamental mistakes. Get made so. This is all a long winded way of saying that I still think Jack Rogers Has a decent chance is to be a solid starting catcher but none of us really ever thought he was going to be. You Know Adly rush obviously or even joey bar necessarily so that that's a position that I would really like to see the Tigers address this off season in free agency It showed up. I think in terms of like the pitching staff and who we ahead you know having good seasons that we were able to trade away for prospects which is theoretically the program that we should be at right now but you know we had like John Hicks. Who really really isn't even a catcher Played catcher part time. They went into the season with him. Rookie completely unheralded rookie in Grayson Greiner. Who Most of us didn't really you ever think would even be a major league back up and that was that was the starting tandem and you know it doesn't matter from from a win perspective but it also matters from a development my perspective? And if you're hurting that Boyd's value behind the plate or you're hurting Daniel Norris's attempts to make a comeback or Spencer. Terrible coming in as a rookie You know you're hurting the rebuild not dislike. Well he caused us this game or reminded cost us that game It's fundamental issue throughout the whole organization when you don't have solid catching and there's just happens to be Let's see let me just take a quick look here because there is a whole bunch of Good free Good solid free. Agent catchers that would be upgraded here from Jayson Castro on picking up a guy like Ravi Torino's Swedish saw Alex Visa's GonNa stay in Arizona but that was another idea like someone who could place them. I betas someone who actually has some plate discipline Someone who we picked up for a half year in twenty seventeen and he had like the best first half of his is his career and got us a nice prospect return John Gomez Martinez Maldonado. All these guys are available so that would be like front and center on my shopping. The the off season so I know where I I. Based let's touch on Miguel Cabrera for a second overall. I mean considering. All all the circumstances he's he had a decent season he's been just battling third Because I am sorry I gotta ask No. No no no I was. I was is getting around to the same thing. Yeah you know I honestly the power numbers are probably You know this is probably how it is. What's weird about me? Go Cabrera is that he still hits the ball really hard he still looks like Miguel Cabrera except for the fact that he just he can't drive off that back leg anymore and it's all because That right knee is pretty much bone on bone for most of the reports. I've read and there isn't a whole lot. You can do to fix that. You know he went into this offseason talking about diet nutrition nutrition and maybe it was time to really really aggressive With the Diet. But it's just really hard like what you get to that point. It's really hard to. It's hard to lose wait To take the pressure off that knee because the pressure's already on that knee and you're in a lot of pain all the time. And he still got fantastic hands He's one of the smarter cities I've ever seen. And he will absolutely smoke some hard ground balls all over the all over the Infield but he does and this is. This is kind of going back three or four years. I remember like maybe Twenty fifteen or twenty. Sixteen I was I was right in preseason that you know his his average velocity was still you know I in the game at that point He's still had more barrels. You know than than just about anybody in the game then but he wasn't hitting as many fly balls and debt has turned out to be the precursor to him. You know just more and more not really being able to lift the ball park you know you have to pull it for the most part like McGaw Cabrera Jd. Lemur Tina's like those guys can go deep to center almost almost at will and when they were both going good back in the day it was incredible to watch some of the just the monster shots. Those guys would hit But you know he's got a he's got to figure out a way to lift the ball in the air and pull it and all of that. Is You know pretty much undone by that right knee so you know. Maybe there's something that can be done but Short of him like you know going crazy Vegan. I'll off-season somehow losing like twenty five thirty pounds. I just have have a hard time. I mean this happens with every player coming into straight and you know in the best shape of their life and we've had plenty of those stories from Miguel of the past couple of years and I'm sure he you know he puts in the work in the off season. You know the way most players do but he's just at a point in his career where there's so much more required and I think that you know the ship is just kind of sale Him having the the physicality laugh to even be able to get himself in better shape from their self yet. It's not good on that score. You know. Obviously we're still paying in a thirty two million a year for another. I think five five seasons on that mistaken by four seasons with an option after that. So yeah I mean it's it's Kinda over like we've already had like the two or three seasons of sort of waiting for the you know the late period revival where he has a year or two where he looks like an old his old salt. I'm I'm afraid that this isn't going to happen but you know we talked about this before you know like you would expect it. He can go he can still go to a place like New York you know. If the Yankees wanted them sort sort of a part time the age you would think he would still be able to go go to a place like that and hit you. Twenty five. Thirty home runs based on his strikeout-to-walk ratio. How hard he hits the ball? But it's just he just cannot disconnect lifted disconnect catch balls out front and drive them in the air anymore. And there there's this really kind of no remedy for any of that Fred. Going to the real first baseman for the Tigers Brandon. Dixon are you are you at what what are your. What are your thoughts on him? If Brennan Dixon was twenty twenty five I would be interested. It's just that I think he's going into his age. Twenty eight season He doesn't walk. He's not patient he does have pretty pretty a big time power and if you watch a little bit mechanical but he actually does have like a pretty nice. You know At least at least pleasing to the eye swing swing You Know He. He's a guy who can definitely drive the ball and he just doesn't selected pitches and I. It's hard for me to to look at him and and and see a real major leaguer there you know. He's he's sort of a guy who maybe you would have now that we have twenty six spots You know maybe he's the guy you put on the bench and he would play part-time pinch hit against lefties as late gains that kind of a thing but yeah he's He's definitely not a long-term answer. And I really you know. I've just had a point where I would like to get most of these guys and just just move them off because the Tigers are in bad enough shape where you know the the leavings of a lot of the better teams are way better than than anything. We've we've got at most of these positions uh-huh and rain Dixon and try them but I don't really see any any long-term viability there. He's got some power. He's like a nice bat to have on the bench. You know that kind of thing but yeah not selective enough. Do you think the worst button baseball right now. Just in terms of farm roster everything as a whole. Yeah I do I really do. I mean you could still argue that the illitch family you know if things start to turn around is more likely than plenty of other owners to spend but but even that I think is under question at this point They now and Chris Illitch. Is the team president. They they don't seem real interested Or real engage like when when they give commented. It's really the most you know kind of surface crap possible and they've cut payroll. I think doc ID twenty seventeen. We started out the year at like two hundred ten million and I think we're projected ninety million ongoing this season so they've absolutely slashed all that I You know we've got two big contracts left to go cabrera adding into Jordan Zimmerman's final year after that. I think they will probably spend some money. But I don't think we're ever going to see the the one hundred and eighty million plus Kind of no matter what happens. And there's a a strong prevailing sentiment I think that The Crystal would and most of his siblings would like to sell the team At this point you know. They paid like his dad paid. Eighty two million court back in like ninety one ninety two and you know I mean they could probably get one point two billion now so I can understand why to walk away and And I think most of us would like them to sell the team at this point to someone who's a little a bit more engaged because yeah they seem really pretty much hands off like Hey al Avila whatever you do is fine. And we don't really care what happens will come out there once or twice a year give give the spiel about you know the rebuilding effort and the prospect and Blah Blah Blah. But yeah there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of urgency there at all Really no expectations of any and he sort that anyone could discern last thing before we move on a second base. Is there any long-term solutions in the system at all adversities. There isn't one that I would say is any anything approaching like a fifty fifty shot. I think a lot of us. Think that Kristen Stewart who the Tigers had left field the season season. You know. Hit his way through the minors really. Well has power a good hitter but a terrible terrible like delmon young esque leftfielder might end ended up moving to first base Jamar candelaria unfortunately has been a disappointment like he He's the guy who looked really history when we first got him and is actually seemed to regress. He's had a Hamate bone issue in. I can't remember which risk but one of his wrists. That's that's something they can't really repair. And that's always is linked in the background. Like maybe this you know. He's just not a guy who's who's going to be able to You know putting enough work to get better you know simply based on that alone so yeah. I don't really think there is much of a of an answer. This guy that we drafted this year. I think in the sixth round of Bryant Packer who some of us like you know. He six rounder. You're you're you're not expecting a whole lot but But he's got power and discipline Some decent hands. He's a guy who maybe could come along and play first base for you but right now there really isn't there really isn't solution and when we were talking about Shane. Green Trades at the deadline and talking about the red sox. You know that that was one of the reasons that you know Trista cash is kept coming up because we you know. We don't really have anything that that excites over here on that score of so you know there may be. I don't really honestly I for space is one of the last positions. You necessarily need to worry about but Yeah I don't really see us I'm racking my brain throughout the minor leagues exit. Think of anyone who might even be a long shot to play that position in the future. I don't really think we have anything like that. Or just gotTa take on Spencer Torkelsson you know with the first overall. We're all pick next year. That's the point right now. Let's go to a position that makes me sad because I asked you this question last year and I have to ask you this question again. This year please tell me Clinton is going to baseball cody. Clemens is good at baseball dude like like anybody who makes it to the AA levels. Great Baseball laking credible baseball. A top. Like what's wrong with the fact that he doesn't have a position would I'll say this recorded comments. He's he's not one of the guys who have like others. There's just no chance His swing is just long. There's there's too much swing and Miss Castle a still in his game and he doesn't complement it with enough other tools you know. He doesn't really have much in the way as speed. He's an okay defender. But he doesn't Doesn't have much much of an arm so he can't really even play like recant. Really project them to right field if the bat did come along. Yeah I mean he's a guy who's who's just got a very narrow path after the major leagues and it's got some you know he's got decent plate discipline and he definitely has some some good raw power but it's sort of a clunky kind of mechanical swing Without really great You know contact ability. He just doesn't have the hands to get to to get the pitches away from him. He's still got a whole will for sliders down in in that you know standard for prospects in general but looks a lot further from from being solved that would be. I think that he might figure it. Out But You know in the tiger system went. He's probably like my maybe third or now like fourth or fifth ranked resist position player. And this is how talking about him. which tells you that the Tigers position players on the farm? It's not there's not a whole lot there but I haven't given up uncoded clemens but I think like by the end of next year. We'll know like you know he. He looked all right. He didn't look totally overmatched. Aa only got in maybe a week or two you up there. So he'll be at W I think most of the season and By the next season will know. It'd be nice if it worked out if he can shorten things up. Get a little little bit stronger a little bit quicker with the bet. There's still a chance I'll say that much more excited. You said there's still a chance in like em like the little longhorn inside. My heart was like yes. That's good tell me a chance. Yes let's go I. I'm I'm down hooked horns. It'd be like the most successful loan for to the major leagues right now outside of Brandon Bell relic which is. Oh yeah thanks. Very Sad Yeah yeah that's great You know let's go ahead and talk about the rest this is this. Is this the year and we just got AA this year. Do we see as the major league level this year. Yes yes and if we don't I'm GonNa frigging riot relieving what they're waiting for now You know if it was me I'd Cana just be ready to pencil in at the third base start the season and you know maybe like if they want a game and you know wait forty games then and then bring 'em up do that kind of thing That that that would be kind of what I'm aiming for I think I kind of feel like Isaac Parade. He's honestly just needs to be challenged a little bit more He didn't hip for a ton of power this year. But he's just such a God damn good hitter He's just a pure contact hitter. You know Draws as many walks as yes he does strike out hits the ball hard lot. The Tigers kind of had him. You know working on unsparing the ball to right field and trying to use the whole field which is sort of their you know their sorta the operating philosophy and he struggled a little bit. You know the first couple months of the season and people were kind of worrying about that but it just felt like they were. They were trying to get him to adopt that approach. Approach a little bit not open up on his hips quite so early in his swing. I'm scandal online a little bit longer and as progress. You know it. It was just it. It was Isaac again. You know just to smoke in the baseball hard all over the place He's still got some adjustments to make. I mean you don't necessarily need rush him I I'm perfectly fine. If the Tigers eggers decide they want to keep them in Toledo until September. I won't be be thrilled about it. Because we'RE GONNA BE PLAYING HOT garbage at a couple of positions but now how is afraid. He's one of the guys who I am. Still very confident is going to hit and is going to develop power more of power approach as he matures a little. But he's still a little. I think twenty one right now. Although you know you never know never know about each for sure with the international guys He's a big boy But he's you know he's man sized already. It doesn't look like there's that much more he's going to learn in the minor leagues and I really would have wished the Tigers had brought them up to Toledo later. Let late this past season. I've just to kind of get them acclimated to the major league ball To See if the ball started flying out for him if he would be a little bit more aggressive arrested about trying to take pitches early accounts and pull the thing out of the park Disarm flying out like that but you know in their wisdom. They didn't they didn't do that. So that's fine wind and waiting for that weird twist and it's going to happen when the bald kind of happened. This postseason the rumblings of air already that like the balls this it can be completely different next year. And all these switch it back. Just like everybody's always GonNa notice before you just flying out everywhere. In Benton to twenty again they're gonNA accidentally only switched the balls the wrong way and make them more flyable and dynamics I literally just saw a tweet from Minor League Baseball Baseball where they were talking about how the Chinese tariff's GonNa increase the price of a batch of twelve balls by fifty six dollars. I think in the next season I didn't even know Rawlings was making the balls in China. I thought they were still being hand-stitched and the Dominican by you know people who give a damn about I don't know I don't know what's going going on. They'd be begging fans to throw the balls back. Yeah exactly we're GONNA cry all my guy. Can you imagine if they would actually let they ran. I am low on balls in some wild shit into this. You know this is kind of a plug and play as like the base of a something that we talked about last year is GonNa be the case again this year or do you think they give somebody else a shake. You know you played Harrison there. He played Beckham there a little bit this year. What does it look like this year? Yeah I mean I. I'm kind of hoping they can find someone halfway interesting to claim you know just like because I have broad whole now some. Hopefully someone younger gets released. You know I mean then might even be a place where they could use the rule five. Pick to find like a guy who plays good defense and Canal. Hasn't figured it out yet. I just wanted to get some young guys and try them. Try something Despite by conviction that does not get a player development so you know they can play Nico Good Room. They're nickel was an above average shortstop. Who can actually hit? And the Tigers didn't didn't stick with them. As soon as George Mercer came back they played Jordy Mercer Mercer shortstop. The tech moving Nick Goodwin played like Centerfield bright field field first base. They had them all over the place but I think he I want to say. He played about forty games at shortstop and posted in above average the arrest and I wouldn't hang my head on I mean Nico is like a nice player. Who has a lot of tools in maybe has a bit of a Got Whom I think of the The twin site last year he played for the Astros. Mr Versus Super Has Yeah. I could see you know a little bit of that kind of career for Nico Gooderham. Perhaps paps but he is twenty seven dollars so I I don't know if there's much more development there for him either but you know he can run. He still some bases. He's got really pretty good power patient at the plate. He Hits a tunnel drives US actually pretty unlucky this year. I'm considering the line drive rate. He put up almost thirty percent He was smoking the ball all on especially in the first half and just kinda battle like a hamstring and growing cat combo meal on in the second half and wasn't around very much so he's an offer me he's part of the the middle infield equation for us next year. But yeah I mean it's just really hard to tell like the Tigers. Have these notions. That don't really seem to match up to reality. You know from outside and that's fine you know if the right but I haven't really seen much much evidence of them being you know more able to predict predict what's going to happen than the rest of us you know public analysts just looking at the stats are watching guys. Play are able to figure out so yeah. I don't really really know what I think. The Tigers are going to do in the middle. Infield is if we wanted to take it cannabis as both positions of this is kind of a black hole right now like Willie Castro who he got four Leonis Martine in two thousand seventeen You know a decent young hitter late kind of a smallish guy who probably isn't hip for that much power but you know the the word on him when we got him is that he was a pretty solid defender that he was going to be major league. Ready defensively at shortstop and you you know pretty soon and he was he was got off last year honestly defensively and a lot of it seemed like mental mistakes like the the fiscal bills. Were still there You know he's still got a a strong accurate arm has Hanson looked but he just he just seems to fall asleep out there sometimes and at yeah I mean seeing him in September I really. I didn't think anything other than like. Yeah he's got a he's got to play shortstop at Toledo next year and work on some of this And I don't know I mean this kind of ties into it Just just to keep noting toward the player development side the Tigers fired their AAA manager. Doug Banquets after one year after signing him to a two year contract contract and I don't know there's a lot of debate about like why. Why they they change directions? They are a couple of the guys like I said like Rogers came up. You Know Castro came up and they end. They just weren't fundamentally sound defensively that like they just looked Sloppy and a little bit mentally overmatched. And so maybe they took that out on Doug Mankiewicz but it also. There's also the perspective that a lot of people who are can insiders have which is that Doug Mankiewicz is just not a guy who's GonNa Bullshit you about like how good your prospects are. And how good everybody's doing you know. He's he's going to tell people you know pretty much straight up. What he thinks and the Tigers are very much in pr mode right now? Because they don't have a whole lot else to offer and I don't think they like that and you know Doug Mankiewicz is kind of an old school guy like you know. He's he's not someone out there You know in the cage studying. Everybody's blache motion data analytics. I don't really imagine but But you know that there is something to say for that you know that kind of final boss before you get to the the major leagues who is really hard on you in forcing you to clean up all the details the little things and that was kind of what he was supposed to be here to do and it seemed like that was what he was trying to do. And it may not have gone that while but Yeah it was a surprise that the Tigers I decided to to fire him and they don't seem to have anyone internal that they want so maybe it was just the fact that so many guys got fired. So many managers and coaches got fired As soon as the season ended that they just feel like there's there's some opportunities out there to pick guard as replacement. I am all for hiring Gabe Kappler installing him as AAA manager and then putting him in charge of the entire player development system. That would you like pay him like ten billion dollars. Whatever it takes to get them to do that for us for two years revamp revamp this whole thing and let's go But to bring it all the way back to the middle. Infield heggers have kept playing Isaac Frady's at shortstop and he played shortstop in the Arizona. Fall at is pretty has good hands. Looks very very comfortable at either shortstop or third base. I'm really strong accurate arm. But he just doesn't really have the range that that you would like to see to play shortstop and so everyone's always assumed he was going to move. But when you look at the way the game is trending and the fact that you know there's less ground balls You know the shift is sort of you know trimming away a little bit at the need to have like super great range out there you know. Maybe maybe they could try to fudge that for a couple years Johnny Peralta every range and really have that good of an arm either but he was just fundamentally sound enough and had the bat and it you know and it made the rest of it moot so they could try that too but if it was me I would just play nickel Gooderham. shortstop do whatever you gotTa do at Third Base until you're convinced that is a craze can come up and play third and then yeah they've probably got find someone to play some Middle Infield and hopefully someone who is released and there's a little bit younger on there just. Isn't that much point to me to having. It's an bringing back. George Mercer or Josh Harrison. I if they think there's some value in the room by having one of those guys there that's fine but I I would rather than try to take a flyer on someone young. I want suggested that I my podcast. Co host has brought up as we could just take up someone like Jason Kipness or as Drubel. I Guess Asdrubal Cabrera one of those guys if they wanted to just to fill in the gaps. But yeah I mean. I'd just rather trying to find like a like a shortstop who has failed looking like that. Maybe Chris owings. I don't know we could plug Chris eggs in there. We had Gordon Beckham this year. Could that'd be any worse I've I've seen I've seen things. You don't believe over there in Boston Brandon moving to the hot corner. You touched on a little bit. What's going to happen at three? I mean you got Lugo go and Castro. What's I mean? What's your outlook for that position? The Tigers are gonNA play Dowa Lugo because they a wasted JD Martinez in trade. and W goes the only semblance of a of a of a real player that they got out of the deal and and he's terrible and they're going to waste time with them Probably for four months. I guess this this season you know that will lugos like a solid defender under. He's got good hands. He's sort of like a like like hell to describe what kind of a history is like. He has good hands. He doesn't strike out very much on swings at everything. If he if wholesale to like sucked you know just didn't have any you know command over the bat and You know could just flip the ban on the ball like just had. I'd like the hand eye to put the battle in the ball could drive it anywhere. Couldn't take any pitches that will go the whole way up through the minors is just like the master of the scorched ground ball. Double Down the line that that sort of his. That's his trademark that's that's the that's the big show. He's a weird guy you know he he has a really Liam. It's hard to explain like just invoice with images is a really rotational. Swing is how I would describe it. he doesn't like drive toward the pitcher so much as he just sort of like spins his hips and and slaps ball hard on the ground and swings. Like a door doesn't swing league. That's a great. Yes that's perfect. He does swing. And you're Kinda guy who he was with a different team. That was a little bit better for it at hitting instruction like if he put on the Yankees I I could see them maybe cleaning up and you know and driving the ball a little bit more in the air. He's probably got fifty five raw power like fifty fifty hit tool but the but the power does never comes because everything is on the ground. So yeah I don't know they're gonNA waste our time with him. I'm sure for a while and there's enough potential there it's like it's not impossible that he could figure it out but it's possible that the Tigers are going to help them figure out. I would put it so yeah I think he's GonNa play about two third base and at some point. Hopefully Tigers will kind of get over that and and just plug. Isaac parades in there but I I expect to have to put up with a with a few months of fulltime dot will Lugo and the you know the people cheering on his every halfway decent moment. God I can feel I can feel already got Birdie inventing the twenty twenty season right now but yeah I mean. There's this kind of how it is. He was the only guy that was that was relieving like a forty five future value. Type Guy that they've got for jd Martinez and so the you know the discounting is going to do their thing and run them out there until we're fed up with it so does Sergio Qatar make any appearance at all. The thing earn. Where does he wound up position wise in the future I mean it's it's not impossible? He might make an appearance but really he's. He's a defensive replacement type guy he is a really pretty good defender of. He's got a fantastic arm is twenty car looks great. Yeah Ah I mean. But that's you know like He. He's a he's a guy who's GonNa play some pepper you know. He's kind of ease another one. Who Sort of Jose glitziest type with less power? But maybe maybe slightly more disciplined so. Yeah I mean that doesn't really anything mayor to look forward to. I'm afraid either. The is a really slick defender. He's like he's a fun player. Watch if you watch minor league ball but yeah. I don't really see him ever having the bats feed to handle the major leagues at all. So yeah he's he's probably a non factor too. I'm afraid ton is is pretty far away too so that'll be a while at that position. I mean is there anybody else in the system. You're kind of excited about as far as enfield guys. Yeah I'll say this I mean I kinda I kinda interested to see what he does. Next year. I liked Andre Lipsius. The the Tigers third round pick like he's he was kind of an. I think he was a four year junior But I think he wasn't. He majored in like nuclear physics. Or something like that. Like a really smart guy who was who had the academic side and probably will go on to to do something in that when when his baseball career is over. But he's a guy who's a pretty solid defender under he's scrappy. He's obviously smart like He. The games I saw him play for the West Michigan whitecaps at the class level. Like he looked like the smartest hitter on on the field for the most part so but again he's he's a guy who's got a small that really bill doesn't really seem to have that much power. He's a guy who I I wanna see now that he's committed to baseball fulltime like what comes out looking like physically next year at an and sort of what he can do in his in his first season. Listen and after. That will probably have a better idea like I don't. I don't necessarily expect a whole lot from him but he does have plate discipline. which is the thing that the Tigers really struggled the draft You know guys who even have have you know the I two ever develop like the. They're just really bad at finding that the Tigers guys who swing at everything and he can put the bat on the ball and they've never really shown much propensity for being able to sort of you know. Teach guys how to how to turn that into you know becoming an actual hitter with with some plait disciplined selectivity. I'd religious might be the guy who can sort of figure some of those things out by himself but he's another one you know he's got a pretty Hansie Swing It's it's not real. Pretty he sort of just you know can kinda gets by being ahead of the game on a lot of people and as the stuff gets better he's GonNa have to get a lot better physically and We'll have to see how it kind of goes in his in his first full season next year. But he's you know he's someone who at least be paying a lot of attention to but yeah. Yeah I mean yeah. infield is is really really weak basically every every position every you know every position on the field is is kind of it kind of up for grabs right now. There's really nobody has a lock on anything You know long term at all but we have a lot of pitching guys. Okay so jumping into the outfield. I mean you really can't start anywhere else. Other than the Nick Calcio. Trade buzzer beater trade at the deadline to you. Top prospects was the return what you thought it would be. And what was your reaction to the triggered. The return was was pretty much what I thought it would be. The and and it really is much. I mean Alex Lang is a a decent relief candidate. Paul resign might be you know might be like a six starter guy Who comes up and and get some spot starts for you down the road but that seems to really be kind of the upside there you know and that's to be expected like teams aren't giving up that much for players especially rentals anymore and nick? Cassiano didn't really have a very good first half the Tigers Really You know I mean pretty much the really mishandled the entire Nick Cassiano situation like I was right in that they should extend them the minute. They traded Justin verlander and JD. Martinez not knows because it was pretty clear that you know there wasn't going to be enough time for nick. Delight move to right field get good at it. Sort of established himself there her and become a trade chip who still had a couple years of control left and they ended up just not. Doing anything really didn't really negotiate on any kind of an extension. You know. There are some rumors that there were some some talks about it but nick put himself out there in a way that players. A lot of times won't do and and really made clear that you want him to stay in. Detroit wanted to be part of turn. Turn this thing around really. Well stay here. His family was all you know he grew up with was kind of all tigers fans. And so this is the place he had always envisioned myself. Kinda came about in publicly. Settle those sorts of things and the Tigers response. You know it was pretty much dial tone and I know that hurt him. You know that they had to hurt him because Nicosia analyst. There's an a particularly good player. He's a he's a good hitter. You know that that's kind of fits best for somebody who needs a D. H.. Who can play some outfield? And and you know basically guy who puts a lot of balls in play hard and online like the the caveat would be like a perfect guy for and I kinda thought this might happen either like the perfect six hitter or five hitter for the Astros like He. Put Him in there behind. Like ALTOONA. Bregman your Don Alvarez. And he's he's going to have have days where he's just smoking doubles all of the field and driving everybody in and we saw that with the cubs you know once he got over there but yeah you know I mean it the way I look at it as a GM job to get maximum value out of all of your assets in in whatever way and the only thing that you know excuses anything it really is hayward competitive were attending and we weren't anywhere close to that They could easily afforded an extension on him and we would have still had a pretty the solid bat that you could probably D. H.. You know a lot of the time because obviously Miguel Cabrera's going to be hurt quite a bit. He's going to need a lot of days off so castanos kind of defensive liabilities and right even though he's terrible but You know certainly not. Even really an average defender. He could have been a part of the rebuild and given you you kind of a bad start start building everything else around and they you know they just didn't seem to have any interest so you know I wasn't surprised that he was traded. I wasn't surprised is that we didn't get very much back forum I was I was really pissed about it but I was almost kind of over that like a year ago and the rest is just sort of waiting like where he went. So there's another guy who I like at a personal level as far as liking players. Go I really liked neck so it was nice to go to Chicago. Have a great time and just rake over there. I know a lot of tiger fans who've talked about him for years and I've had to keep arguing with we're sort of You Know God smack to see him become like this huge fan favourite and all the ladies going crazy for Hitting home runs and doubles all over the place at basically doing everything he could carry the cubs on his back to the postseason. So yeah I mean I think nick is a better player than we saw here in large part because it just wasn't much else around him he had a really good two thousand eighteen and he was out basically the whole year and we had nobody around armed him and he's still hit you know. I think he's still posted like a one. Twenty eight of Ersie plus something like that. So yeah. He's a solid player but without him there. You know yeah who who plays filled extra for the Tigers. I mean we really. We Have Cobi Jones and Victor Ray who are all sort of defense I center fielders and and in Rightfielder Maybe it's Travis Merit. Maybe Dance Cameron. I you know I think those are those are really kind of the two options. So they'll probably one of them. The Tigers Agresson heavily. He's Kinda hinted that they might try to find some kind of power bat or two to play first base and help out there and in right field so potentially something nothing like that will happen. I I certainly don't feel great about disturbing the job right over tries to MIRA who didn't really show us a whole lot after Shane Green trade with the braves. He was sort of the second a piece of met deal. Like another guy who has some potential can lake. Nicole from Lake has like decent around tools but just just doesn't really put it it altogether or has yet. So he's going to be getting a lot of time in right field and I'm really hoping that Das- Kinda come on in at least Put up a pretty good show and start taking taking some of that time for him. If Travis doesn't kind of get it going next year hey guys. If you haven't heard about anchor it's easiest way to make a podcast. LemMe explain it's is free. There's creation tools that allow you to according to Your podcast right from your phone or computer anchor will distribute your podcast for you so it can be heard on spotify apple podcasts and many other platforms. You can make money from your podcast with no minimum listeners. And it's everything you need to make a podcast when David started this podcast. We definitely didn't think that it would be this. Easy and anchor has made it just us that we picked Gabe along the way. We're having fun doing this but we're also making a little bit of cash. You can to download the free anchor apper good anchor. FM TO GET STARTED THE ANCHOR DOT FM. Now let's talk about the guy that was recalled seven times and twenty nineteen victory. What were your thoughts on his season and do you think he's you know going to be productive next season? Well I think the you know the best thing to happen for him is that he proved himself to be a good defender at all positions in the outfield. Like you could put them out there and feel pretty good about it because even that wasn't wasn't real certain last last season at people who don't know the Tigers picked him up in the rule five draft had the first pick in the rule. Five drafted took him from the Arizona. diamondbacks after the twentieth seventeenth season basically stashed him all year. Because it didn't matter and we could in twenty eighteen and he came straight from AA and had to come GonNa try to hang hang in the major league environment and it was bleak like most of us were sort of just like what. What were they looking at? You know what are they seeing this kid other than the fact that he's you know six five and can run you know there's there are some physical gifts there but But this year he sort of shorten his swing out he he basically took on that. You know that Lloyd mcclendon in let's play some pepper approach and it just and it just kinda worked out for him you know. He dabbed his way to a to an okay second half but even that was like you know it was like two one hundred twenty plate appearances where he was spraying the ball around and it was it was dropping forum but but still hasn't really much of a way to tap into his power hit for a little bit more power our at triple A.. And I think really the only the only thing that's kind of left with him or the or the thing that you can kind of hang onto his. A glimmer of hope is that you know his as development. Kerr has been kinda screwed up by the fact that he had. He sat on the bench after jumping straight from from AA to the majors. Went back to triple a this season. which is what he needed needed all year long but was also kinda bouncing up and down so it's not impossible that he might find a little bit more of a gear but at best I would say he's he's sort of an average outfielder? Whose whose main value is GONNA lie his defensive abilities so that's kind of who the guy is so I don't know if you know this or not but one probably the biggest guy that the painting corners podcasts are fans of Austin Meadows? His younger brother Parker Parker meadows this is in the tiger system thoughts on him. Yeah I mean Parker Meadows Yeah the Tigers took him in the second round in the draft in two thousand eighteen out the high school you know. He's he's another guy who has like a lot of tools But feels like the kind of guy who also might take a little bit of time to sort of put it all together other physically because he is six five and he looks like he's maybe two hundred pounds. He's really kind of a beanpole he can run. He's got some weapons swing. We've seen some really nice raw power from Amman occasion but he has a really long swing. You know like when scouts talk about bad speed like the way. I tried to explain this to people. It's not like how fast you're traveling you know it's it's it's basically zero to sixty it's acceleration and he's got work to do there and you know some of that may is be shortening the swing and and physically getting stronger So I'm looking forward to seeing you. Know him kind of grow into his frame a little little bit more a little bit more coordination and strength can kind of Can kind of smooth out some of the rough edges in his swing. 'cause he can you know it. Definitely capable of playing center field He he should have pretty good rob. How're he's got decent accelerate along limb guys who are fast still aren't very good base stealers and victory kind of fits that mold? I think Parker medals will be a little bit better on on that front but But yeah he's he's got some swing flaws in. It's hard to be caffeine it. You know if if we were if you put Parker Meadows in the astros system is probably like just just by the fact that I know he's going to get good instruction structure like almost bump them up like you know two of almost fifty future value type data as opposed to like the forty that he probably is with Astros Astros. He's probably a forty five because I just don't have a whole lot of cabinets that this team can produce hitters and we haven't really seen anything to to really counteract it Even the Castanos who sort of one hitter that tigers have managed to develop over the last six or seven years was was pretty close to a finished product. Even Even within like his first year in pro ball he was. He was just a really precocious hitter and didn't really change too much than any of US could really really see by the Tigers instruction so yet. I'll have a caffeine. It's unfortunately on that front but you know it. It doesn't hurt that. Parker medals goes and trains with awesome metals. WHO had frigging kick ass last year with raise this year? There's a little bit in the pedigree bucket. Where at least you know that he's going to be around people who are doing the right things no you? I don't know how to improve. Absolve know what to work on. So I'm going to be pretty interested to see Parker metals next season. He's a guy who I think. A lot of people were disappointed in this year but but again like guys with that kind of frame I almost always will give like a whole extra year of leeway to just because you know he's he's kind of tall gangly kid kid who needed to get his coordination and string together and if that happens never know maybe this wingo cover art as well as Jim starting pitching. Its make this. It's been this is want to jump into the bad stuff Does Matt Boyd Fit. This rebuild is the question that we're GONNA lead off with pro pro. Probably not no like if I'm on the show. Yeah like if I if I run on the show like Matt Boyd and Daniel Norris are probably getting extensions right right the season And I'M GONNA try to hang onto under those guys a little bit longer because I think the Tigers are probably going to sort of run out of time in terms of being able to convert them you you know useful assets sets that will actually play in twenty two twenty three win win kind of hoping that we're back in the mix again. I really liked Batboy I didn't I like we traded for Matt Boyd. Obviously he was he was far and away. The third piece behind Daniel Norris especially and Michael Fomer And boy does really transform himself. And ma'am boy. This is the kind of guy who's a really smart pitcher works really hard. He's a leader. He's a smart Guy I am. He's he's the guy who I would say like the James Shields of the tiger staff If you know how that reputation works. That boy is trained at Dr Line Baseball as ball out in Seattle Seattle Washington on the past couple of seasons and like each. He's he's made like a major change like in two thousand sixteen gene. He used to really be like almost high. three-quarters guy and in two thousand sixteen dropped his arm slot like to a low three quarters like a really pretty radical change. They happened over the course most of that season and he improved and then he came out last year and the slider looked a lot better and he was swinging that thing a little bit differently. I'm getting a lot more or or Zano break and getting a lot more wis on it and then this off season you get a whole lot of What more physical work built his fastball? Up Blow more picked up another mile or two tweaked his delivery just a little bit to get more backspin and a little bit more just straight riding action on the fastball and that worked for the the first three months of the season now we found that he really kinda turned into sort of a poor. Man's Patrick Corbin where there's a lot of strikeouts not many walks but wendy start teeing off on their hit him hard and he was given up a lot of home runs. So he's he's a guy who really had a home run problem and started. He's you know we've seen stretches. Were Matt Boyd. Has really good change up and that to me seems to be the key. Like if he's got one more step that he can take where he can refine that changing and commanded consistently all make season. I think you're looking at like a you know a solid number two starter like or a good number three something like that so I still think there's that last slow bit on for him to get out of himself and if he can do that in the first half maybe the Tigers will be able to get a little bit more of what they wanted when they tried to trade him at the trade deadline the season. He's been fun to watch. Though an and it really a lot of ways he sort of saved the team by at least like every fifth day like okay. This looks like a doc halfway professional major league baseball team that could win some games because you know two or three starts per turn. We really didn't even look like that this season. So yeah I mean that boy pretty good diet and I think there's there's a lot of intangibles there on top of what you'd actually see numbers that would make him a pretty valuable guy for a lot of teams seems to have. I actually think that the phillies would have done well to trade for him. I know they didn't want to trade like Alec Bone and the way it looks now trading Spencer Answer Howard for him by the seemed excessive but you know he's adorable guy. NAP Boyd hasn't hasn't had any injuries. He goes out there. He gives you one hundred seven hundred eighty hittings every year He struck struck out. I think like eleven point five per nine innings. If I'm not mistaken somewhere right around there this year differently up in the in the top tap not ten or so of a strikeout guys and doesn't walk to many people on the he's just one of those guys who is a fly ball pitcher who has a bit of Homerun problem problem and you're GonNa have to be able to to solve that to really unlock him and make him something better than an average starter Because obviously if you're in America Park and you're giving having oppo runs you're going to give up home runs and Philly thirty. So that's his mission. This off season is up to figure out a way to keep keep hitters a little bit more off-balance Work on that third pitch and I wouldn't put it past him because he he's definitely a guy who really understands the modern process of pitch development. And you know it's fairly likely to figure something out for next season that'll be interesting again. I'm actually terrified. Mentioned this guy's name because last year we did it. He got Tommy John like almost immediately. What's GonNa have Michael Fulmer? Michael Fulmer is probably not going to be back until till mid season the Tigers are are you know obviously not in a position to to rush at all like. There's no reason. Look yes. They're gonNa you know he's I don't expect to see him until after the All star break and I I really don't know what to expect in everybody's GonNa think about the Tommy John Surgery. I don't worry so much about that. Michael Fulmer is a beast like he has a hard working like intense cat Where his craft is concerned? I I assume that the rehab ago you know according to plan and then he will he will get his arm strength back and the elbow will be okay but the problem is that he's got knee problems too. You Know He. He's lost quite a bit of cartilage in his right knee and I don't think they did the microfracture procedure this last off season. But I don't know there was a whole weird thing this spring where he showed up up and all of a sudden. He's wearing a knee brace and they started letting them pitch. You know like normal pretty quickly and I don't know that they had anything to do with his elbow on the you know. He's had had bone chips removed from the elbow before has had some own owner nerve issues in there before that they had to do a little bit with so the elbow think probably holy was just coming out but it was a bad look for the Tigers that you know he comes back from a minor knee procedure you put them in an e brace he starts kind of going at his normal workload to get ready for the season and blows out of salvo. That's the thing that enrages me like what you had. No reason to dislike slow. Play Him and let him get used to the braces. He's you know which is kind of like light work as long as you wanted. And the if I didn't having to do with it but I just don't know what we're going to get when he comes back because a big part of you know Michael Former is that he just had one of the best fastballs in the game and had good command of it really really aggressive fast pitcher with great extension powered his way off the mound at you really hard and that right knee is is the thing that worries me more than the the Tommy John. Michael former always had some issues in terms of he just really never had like a particularly good breaking ball in two thousand sixteen when he run rookie of the year. It was really fast all change up more than anything had like an eighty nine ninety mile per hour you know cuttlefish Sorta slider. That was okay but it was mainly fast ball making it play up so yeah I don't know I. I still kind of feel like maybe what's going to happen is that Michael Former is going to end up in relief. You know going to be sort of a right handed like Sean doolittle type but what we're going to have to wait in and probably probably we won't really know until two thousand twenty one sort of what he's gotten a tank with Nian issue. That's a terminal. Had a really good year the the season and if there's one bright lake think rookie debut that the Tigers had it was terrible. He's a really interesting guy. He's one of the few that really throws like a high spin forcing her her and a really low spin you know like true sinker and he could mix those two. I'm you from ninety three to ninety eight miles per hour and his band is still will. Is still sketchy but you can see like a lot of good hitters. Had a really hard time dealing with his fastball. And he's also he backs it up with a pretty good slider arm curveball combination. He's a guy who's who's older than I think. People thought when he when he came up I keep reminding people that day is only twenty six after everything he's been through. It spreads debuted this year at twenty seven just about. He's the guy who the tires drafted in two thousand four and he had kind of consistent shoulder issues is but never anything major and it. It just feels like maybe twenty eighteen. He he cut a found something in his conditioning where it all sort of clicked and he stayed healthy the whole season. And you started to see you kind of the package coming together. While he's not he's not a guy who's probably ever going to have like you know plus command or turn into a really dominant starter. He's the guy who's who's got just nasty raw stuff like he he could be a really tough reliever He's a guy who who they the Tigers do have kind of going for them right now. Who Really Kinda came out of the blue because even though he had a good season in the on the farm last year he was twenty six by then He? He was a guy that I think a lot of people had already started to Kinda right off off was falling down into the teens in a lot of the the system rankings and so to have him come up and you know showcase a little. Oh better command than than he he had in in the minors and that power stuff. He's the guy who you know probably is one of the best assets or what are the best last thing to happen to the Tigers organization this season so they got him And he's still going to be around for six years so that that part of it is good. You know the the real tricky part and I I just wrote like a player review about dangerous. Last night he's going to be a free agent in twenty twenty two so we've only got him for two more seasons former employed. We only have three more so it is really hard muscle. Tigers decide to offer some extensions and the Tigers aren't a team. That really ever seems to do that with anybody. Other than the you know. The Justin Burley Anders of the world. which I think is foolish? Unfortunately but is this kind of the way it goes. But they're the trick the next year or so is to figure out how to determine those guys into the best assets that they can get back obviously former is gonNA take some time now but you've got foam for three more seasons so maybe that can work out Boyd I would expect to be treated very fairly soon. Norris has just had like this this weird groin injury But he suffered in two thousand seventeen pitched with it for most of the season and struggled Head surgery came back. The next year was still kind of dealing with a lot of soreness and scar tissue and his blasphemy. which used to be on ninety? Three ninety four was down to about ninety and he averaged ninety pretty much all of two thousand eighteen they kind of had to pitch them out of the bullpen. He ended up having a secondary procedure. I mean the dude is just been unbelievably snake bit he he you know he had thyroid cancer. Like right. After the Tigers Traded Forum What else happened? He fell doing box jumps and like fractured one of the the little processes that come off the back of your Vertebra in twenty sixteen. I believe that was so. It's just been kind of like this. This litany injuries with him But he still has a really damn good slider good change up pretty good bulldog mentality in there. And he's a guy who I'm looking forward to next next season. Because because the Tigers shut him down and just had him pitch like two or three innings at a tie in his starts in September just sort of keep them in the mix without overworking him and and we started seeing the the velocity finally starting to come back and take out and to lose that much velocity without an arm injury Dale's never had any kind of trouble is is just a really kind of weird thing and we saw that with Justin Burland or when he had his groin inquirer issues on prior to the twenty fourteen season. So I've been I've been holding malign here ed part of it I mean I kind of love Daniel Norris like dude who in the offseason is out with all these nature photographers and surfers. Who Film things for or National Geographic? All these people follow on instagram like Daniel. Norris knows these people that's three hangs out with in the off season driving his VW. Bus across the country. I I think I kind of want his life his lifestyle. He's kind of my spirit. Animals I root for them even more than I normally would but it was great to see him kind of come back and just you know just just just be healthy. Stay off the I l. and put up league average numbers and he's another guy who I could see coming out next season. You know having a little bit more on the fastball. After an off season where he finally doesn't have to Rehab anything and can just work on his strength and flexibility. I can see him get a little blasted he back and he's really had to struggle to learn how how to pitch with ninety MPH fastball over the past two seasons and kind of had figured out you know how to make it work with command mixing fixing stuff up and all that so he could get that little bit of lasted you back out still holding out some hope that The the best is yet to come for Daniel as well and like I said he's only twenty six. There could be a long way to go. He was brought up really early by the Blue Jays traded to us and we basically worked right from the beginning so yeah yeah as far as the rotation goes at least there are few guys who are who are worthy of look next season. I wasn't expecting Dana. Norris's my spirit animal to be a large number man. You gotta you gotTa start following Daniel North of instagram. It'll be your spirit animal. Don't worry more like the bland pitchers is that are like McKinsey Gore over here taking McKinsey Gore. Let's talk about the second best pitching prospect of baseball. Yeah I'm okay with that I ll Mackenzie Gore is a beast man. I'm on board with the McKenzie. GORTEX man he's more like it's like everybody's a prospect crush right Calistoga a a podcast of for EVT's stuff. It was literally dislike twenty minutes of meeting callous. Just gushing over Gore knife. Hi Jim Ellison. Now that's a as he was he was awesome man. But you know let's talk about casing. Is We talked about Casey last year to where her feels you. I think you told me last year that you thought that Manning was gonNA wind up passing him up. Do you think that happened this year in is that at fault of is is or is that more manning's just push forward. I don't think he passed him necessarily but I do think if it became pretty clear player to a lot of people that it that it's much more like a one eight one be type situation. They've he's last year to actually. Yeah I think that all kind of came to fruition like I I mean Casey buys looked really good I A lot of my concerns with Casey. Mice have always been more that he so close to two major league. Ready as as he is that. I'm just not sure that the Tigers the team that can really like leverage him the best like he's almost a guy you would think the Tigers would would pitch for two seasons and then probably probably end up trading away for a piece to really start the rebuild going I mean I've had some issues with case is just because I don't. I don't trust the durability ability and that's that's perfectly normal almost all pitching prospects but there are some guys who I do and and I I. I have a lot more faith that manning is going to is going to be the if one of them is going to be the guy who throws two hundred innings every year and just eats everybody up consistently and becomes like a legit ace type. It's it's going to be Matt Manning I you know. Casey is his type of guy who I I could see like one hundred fifty one hundred sixty in guy who has a I understand once or twice almost every year for a little. Bit of shoulder soreness But maybe doesn't have anything serious for a while But yeah I mean of the two. Yeah I'm still I'm still pretty. Definitively I met Manning side I liked Casey Mayes. I didn't want to necessarily take him like I was okay with with it but with tigers having as much pitching as they do I was more partial to like a joey bar or Nick Madrigal. Type play at that point I'm trying to save a little bit of money. And maybe for someone harder in the second round they took him. You're the stuff look good. He debuted at Aa with a no hitter. which was it was pretty good? Yeah he's he's a weird guide watch at at the AA level because he's not necessarily generating that many whiffs and he. He seemed seemed kind of struggle with the splitter a little bit this year which is really when he has the splitter going You you can kind of see like the the best of Casey is and why he was the number one overall pick because at that point like for AA hitters. It's it's just hilarious. You know what I mean. There's there's some really bad swings like swings the pitching Ninja. Wouldn't even you know. Feel you you know. Like he could put out on a public website if other that grotesque so He's you know he was good this year. It's once again. You know he had the same. The problem is junior year where he got past one hundred innings and all of a sudden and the command wasn't quite so good and then it was a little bit of shoulder trouble and and he took a couple of weeks off and he came back and he was still just kinda sloppy so yeah you know he could probably pitch in the major leagues right now. He just doesn't give me the impression of a guy who's is gonNA with his with his delivery with his his injury history. He doesn't give me the impression of a guy who's going to be like a big time innings eater who develops develops a whole lot further. I K- I kind of look at him as like a you know maybe in like a year like almost a number two starter type. Who is probably ready to go and probably should replaying for a good team? Because he says he's hard to project as a guy who's GonNa be your pitch and when he's like thirty four thirty five and still throwing ninety three ninety five even eating a ton of innings. I just don't see that you know that it really cards and it's not really on the cards for most guys So I can understand. That doesn't sound like that much of a criticism. It's just that for a team. That is so far from winning. He was almost like a win. Now type pick. He's like the guy the Tigers would have dreamed of getting in Twenty Eleven twenty twelve and slammed right into the bullpen and then moving them into the rotation like a year later But he he kind of fits that assorted mold better. So we'll see how it goes. One thing that happened last off season is that there were a couple of interviews with him where he talked about Training at his agents camp and he's another guy who really seems like really fluent in analytics and pitch design and it was really really down to like you know work on his slider last offseason season and really kind of redesigned. It changed some of his training all that kind of stuff. So there's a lot of intangible qualities Casey is that I think are really good as well and we'll just kind of see how it all plays out but but yeah in the long run I'm still manning's a little bit more of the the volatile side of the of the equation as far as like how he's going to eventually finish up as the approaches the majors but I feel like yeah of the two I bet more on. Manning long-term where to Scuba football fit into this mix we just talked about basically Manningham is but where do you find that screwball winds up kind of fitting in this equation probably really not this year in maybe at the end of next year. But you know how do you. How does he profile out yet? He's I mean look he. He was incredible the revelation. Yeah I mean I mean he was putting up like he was striking like forty five percent of of the hitters or more he that he faced a at Erie it was. It was pretty pretty overpowering stuff. I mean he's got an incredibly good fastball. I mean there's a lot of deception option in his delivery he's Kinda thrown from a high arm slot. He's kind of got like that kind of like a Josh. Hader sort of fastball. Basically the breaking ball. I think lags a little bit behind and we'll just have this. I need to see him a little bit more. Because he wasn't a double wave that long and a lot of what I saw. was that the breaking ball and the change up played so well because the fastball was just wait for those guys But you know I think the issue with him as you know he is a giant guy already on. I think he had Tommy John Surgery Sophomore year. which is why the Tigers were able to get them where they were they did? I didn't know I think it was the ninth round last year and I think we all kind of like we all like that pick and I kinda thought like yeah this could be a really dominant reliever maybe even like got to to winnings you know type guy like the guy who bridges you to your closer Something like that but usually durable this year and you know the the stuff tough was pretty undeniably. Good so yeah. We'll just have to kind of see really all I really. All I'm Kinda represented about is is how durable he's going to be It's a fairly high effort delivery. You know we'll we'll just kinda have to play it by ear but right now. Yeah he's like I mean. He jumped so much this year that he's really kind right behind Ms Manning and looked really pretty close to major league ready. His command is better than Manning's it's better than mize's but He was just pounding people with that fast ball dropping sliders and curve balls on the edges for the final three months of the season. He's one of those guys because I read a lot about the minor leagues. But but I don't get to that many games other than it Toledo so when guys are in the Florida State League doesn't much TV coverage you can't watch that much of it on Minor League TV and he was in the void there for a while. So I kinda just I just WanNa see him more but I mean he really did vault his way all the way up to where you know. It's really only mayes manning and Riley Green. I think at this point that I would that I would put them. I'm it was damn impressive. Him really much needed for the Tigers. They have someone breakout like that and look that good. It's just a question of whether he's kind of more of a bullpen weapon type guy or whether he's going to be able to go out there and you know drew one hundred seventy five innings and be dead good. It was damn good though when I saw him for sure. You're going to be thrilled to get a top one hundred. I already in the ninth. Round of lasser draft. Yeah thanks Scott. Boris Boris apparently one of the weird things about that was that we kinda on the site. We're always having this debate about the front office and there's a lot of people who just don't want a process that maybe the front office is terrible because you know then when you and you know they kind of kept throwing him back they found Tarik Scuba. Look how good this is going this year. Sure and then in that article came out where it was all you know. Scott Boras called the Tigers in mid draft like when they were in the sixth or seventh round and was like. Hey what about my my boy. Tarek Eric School here like nobody's taking them yet. This guy's amazing you guys should look into it and I guess they checked him out. We're like yeah all right. They took them and so yeah we were throwing that all back in their faces like. Oh Oh yeah yeah. Great Front Office as long as Scott. Boris is doing your scouting for you but he was right. I'll give him that job. Scott Boras thank you. We needed that. He's got worse. Nobody's there was a level for now. Yeah man to go I guess the finish kind of the cycle here Matt Manning just having you know just a fantastic year like it was it just seems to come so easy to him like but you know the the fastball and even the development of his command His he cleaned up his delivery. Libary in two thousand eighteen quite a bit and he was a really raw prospect. I mean I don't know if you guys are paying much attention to him when he got drafted but he'd only pitched hitch like two years in high school he was a basketball player had a scholarship to to Loyola As a guard or something as massive. Yep He is he's he's six six and that's the thing like everyone wants these really tall pitchers but then there's also the truth about like all these tall slender pitchers like they never find command. which is kinda nonsense like everybody wants? Six five six pitchers like you know Justin Burland Garrett Cole like I can go on and on with the examples examples of of how that's sort of the prototype of the modern power pitcher but yeah Matt Manning. He looked raw they. They did a lot with delivery the first year and there were just a lot out of like he. He didn't. He looked like a pitcher by the end of two thousand seventeen like its first full season but there was still some elements. We didn't really look like a baseball player Just in terms of kids ability to like hold Brunner's his fielding sort of his general awareness his ability to kind of move between the stretch and the wind up All that stuff really came together other in just just a huge way twenty eighteen and he didn't really take a big step forward this year. I'm he just sorta like entrench those games that he'd made The first half of the season had the had the change up and the curb bubbles going really well and he and he just looked unbelievable he kind of faded a little bit. I thought in the second can half the secondary pitches a little bit There was he pitched an inning in the MLB futures game that was sort of a microcosm of how it goes for. And we're like he didn't have the the secondary pitches and couldn't quite land them and against the you know some of the better hitters in the minor leagues. It wasn't like anybody was really off on them necessarily but there was just he just could not blow people away with fastball. At that you know when when it was that level and when he didn't have the secondary stuff you know it was a bit of a struggle for him. So you know there's still work to do but you know he's twenty one. He's he's a young twenty one as far as a pitcher goes and yeah I discontinued to be really excited for him because is the the athleticism is just so strong guy that size like his his agility off the mound is is really fantastic. You see him like pick things up when when they're working working on something generally pretty quickly. I kind of feel like he's got to add is basically you know fastball changeup which is sort of like a split change inch and a really pretty good hammer curb all right now but I still kind of feel like there's gotta be a cutter or a or a slider in the offing into really Kinda round that whole thing out or his command just just not as up a whole other level and it and it won't matter he definitely he could pitch in the major leagues right now to as reliever could probably be all right. The command was has just been really steadily increasing As far as like locating the fastball asphalt around the zone being able to change speeds and move up and down in the zone with it He's he's really fun to watch pitch and he's he's that's my guy right there. I'm the official Bandwagon Conductor of the Landing Bandwagon. And I would have them above Casey Mayes. Yeah I'm on my prospect list. We argue about this fairly regularly at bless you boys but yeah I'm not. I'm not giving it on that. He's our number one as far as I'm concerned. How do you feel about Joey wins? I've read a lot of stuff High praise for him. Yeah you know I like I actually thought that was a really good. Get that treatment down a lot of a lot of national prospect writers. Seem to be like Eh Joey. Wentz like You no he was a guy like a year ago but has sort of faded. But I don't know I I like to take like Joey whence the Tigers have a couple of guys and Tarek school fits in this to Do these kind of high arm slot lefties who throw that really like straight four seamer with a lot of like it's not necessarily like spin rate necessarily zero like I think Tareq scruples spinner. It was pretty good. I'm not really sure what joy went was. But it's all it's all backspin. It's all writing action. And he's got some good good deception From when we saw the command was really good. The change was really good His breaking ball is still pretty pretty mediocre. Like you'd probably put a forty five on it most of the time But even that was really effective because he he again was like someone who looks like he had a lot of pitch ability was changing speeds. Move into both sides of the plate hitting his spots. A Lot Yeah I was pretty pretty pleased with them and another. He's another one. Who is you know? He's six five to fifty and I think he's only twenty one years old old so get a few injuries last season. And I think maybe that's kind of stunted the lasting development is more like ninety two ninety. Three we still think there's a chance he's going to. He's going to pick up to be ninety five ninety six type guy. I don't know if the breaking ball will ever really come come along to be a plus pitch but he looks like the guy who should be able to be like a four or five starter for me. So you know for Shane Green. That was that was pretty good. Chang's good relief but not a dominant one is everybody just just go to Erie and just dominate. Because I feel like that's what happened. Yeah I mean they really did this year I you know I wish I could remember who wrote it but there was an article about like is the pitching. I'm good at in the eastern league this year or two hitter suck I don't they just. Yeah Yeah but I think it was. I think it it was the pinch. rotation was pretty stupid When they were going good? Yeah watching like Ms Manning veto school with a little bit of like Anthony Castro or you know whoever else mixed in there yet it was. It was pretty nasty You know that you're seeing wolves really only had Isaac parades as far as like kidder's go and they were pretty close to making the postseason and it was all just because at that. Starting pitching was just bananas. Good so but that's that's kind of where we got it going for us and it's just all about like you know these guys are GonNa. I show up proudly in the next year. You know we should see a lot of these guys next season. And hopefully setting settling in in twenty twenty one. And it's like yeah right about. Then we have some bats going really like is appraisal be thereby then but riley green unless he has a huge breakout is probably still going to be at the AA double a level If that so the timing of all this is another thing that just isn't it. It's hard to do but it's not coming together very well and that's all because the tiger really really failed with a lot of the trades Everybody gets a draft every year. It's nice to pick high but you know even in football having the number one pick doesn't guarantee not you anything and in baseball. It's like a completely other thing so yeah so I mean just you know. We haven't gotten any extra picks the Arizona diamondbacks Bax. who was? Yeah Yeah we would love to see Al Avila. Do some do some things to get to get a whole bunch of picks and get a bunch of these guys all coming coming kind of on a similar timeframe but they haven't really shown what's propensity for creativity or or trading in general So you know the went straight was okay the trade that they got Isaac Parade as you know in Jamar. Candelaria was good but other than that. I mean it's it's been pretty garbage. So yeah you know the timing on all this is the trick and that's where you get into okay we're going to trade buoyed and then maybe we're going to trade fomer or for the for the bats that we need but then you're entirely depending on your farm to produce all these guys and I don't care if you have you know eight top one hundred. Pitching prospects like the odds are still very good. That you're only going to get for those guys to be solid solid major leaguers and even then it might take them a couple of years to to settle in. So yes. That's why this is so hard right now. Is that if you know if instead of Mayes manning scuba all those guys were hitters like we'd all feel different like Oh maybe we can find cheap pitcher and fix them up or bring all these guys to to fly ball pitchers to America. Who are you know getting shelled and other places and find a couple of them who can keep the ball in the park enough? You put a fast speedy defense. Thank Centerfield like you start like in your head you can start team building away to make some of this work but But yeah bringing up all the pitchers at once when you don't really have the bats yet you know I. It's it's still a very long way away unless there's some some big things happening over the next year. You just waste service at that point. Yeah I mean and and to some degree. That's okay because pitchers you know I. It's just the way it goes like when you bring a pitch up to the major leagues you know. We've seen it with Julio Erase or women Senate with Walker bueller panic like there's usually some injuries. There's usually some some figuring out some rough stretches. It's less less likely. I think that you're gonNA get a wine. Soto tight pitching prospect does even the best guys usually struggle a little bit for a while Walker Bueller being the exception it just looks like a complete stutter. Already so is there. I mean you pretty much. Can you know I mean it's like Joe Jimenez Buck Look Farmer. Those guys are okay. If one of them could take a step forward that that's a good relief chipped to trade next season but other than that. Yeah you know we picked picked up a guy. David Mackay On waivers from Seattle. He's got like a three thousand RPM curve ball throws ninety four ninety five and. Yeah I mean it's it's good good stuff but the thing that I'm noticing is that it that stuff kind of used to you know pop. My is out of my head but the man everybody throws ninety five while support for reliever so you know he's another guy who like if he could put it together and find the command. The stuff is really really pretty eye popping the good but But yeah there's there's also just a lot of you know that guy's never gonNa make it was under smooth news throw one oh three one three and then paint it back or slider finals Anybody those ninety good luck now. Yeah Yup but their seat all but then there's still some out there but man you gotTa have some yet has some serious game pain. Yeah and you gotTa have some deception you gotta be able to change the etc so it I mean it is nice that some guys can still make that work and that's why we started out I if it was before we got on air talking about that. And that's why you know that cranky and Anibal Sanchez and guys like that Kyle Hendricks get so much no acclaim. Because it's it's is this really hard to pitch that way and it takes a guy with you know pretty stupid precision to make that sort of thing works. Oh Yeah you better you better be able to bring it you know ninety five or or close or it's tough I mean. We've pretty much covered everything. I kind of want to go over the draft a little bit before we close things. Down sure How did you feel overall about this draft and you know we? We talked about it before. Obviously nine guys that were in College College. Only one of nine guys in the first round that we're we're in college. Only one high schooler but that one high school or is relegated you know. How did you feel about taking Riley Green at number five? And what was the kind of the reaction to this. I think. In general people really liked Riley Greener. And we're pretty pretty stoked about him and I don't know if you guys read back in the spring it was sort of like the one knock on rally green is that was that you know. Maybe the defense wasn't that good. He didn't really have the speed. You know to to play Centerfield. He was probably a guy is gonNA have to move to the corner all that kind of thing but everybody you know everybody likes the bet. Everybody expects them to hit And right from the start like you know. He went to the Gulf Coast League. Can I think homered in his first two games and they were like tape measure just missiles And he basically did the same thing at Connecticut in the New York Penn League you a you know like short season a ball so the you know the bat you know impressed but the other thing to happen is that he went to West Michigan and just started making highlight reel plays in Centerfield Centerfield all over the place and I don't know it was pretty clear to a lot of us that some of the early kind of write ups I'm on Riley Green no pre-draft like back last January February just hadn't taken into account that he'd really kind of already heard all those rumors and really put in a lot of work and he was faster than Than people anticipated in in a lot better defender so overall that was pretty great. You know I kind of wanted. Jj Blah Day Mainly because of those concerns about Riley Green like maybe maybe he's just kind of going to be a slow corner outfielder when he fills out but Put those concerns on the back burner and so overall Yelm. I'm really happy little love for rally Russia but that wasn't gonNa Happen Riley Green We're we're pretty stoked about I think As far as picks go that was the good one The the overall yes. I mean there were some picks you know that I liked but overall it was a little disconcerting that it was such a a seemingly safe draft have to to not really take any prep players in the top ten rounds and and kind of take a swing on any of those guys you know there are some guys I liked like we talked about Bryant Packard like maybe a shot at being a power hitting first baseman Cooper Johnson you know a decent catching prospect like looks like he has work to do behind the plate Even got drafted but has some two ball skills like a little bit and power like okay. That's all right. You know that back back-back pick was okay I liked lips. Okay I liked Catanha. Okay but overall yeah the philosophy Yeah that was kind of problematic automatic gun not just for me but I know a lot of people were sort of like you know why it would be in safe right now like. Why aren't we swing for the fences with it as many takes as possible? Because you you know we're a long way away. You're very unlikely to draft a star in the fifth or sixth round out of college. So yeah I mean that's kind of a problem. Hopefully they they they found if you guys who were values but But I don't really have a whole lot of happened. Set anybody outside a rally green is really ever going to be an impact player The two thousand eighteen draft was was pretty good but this one felt like sort of the beginning the middle ground between twenty eighteen and twenty seventeen which was just like a mess of a draft. Graf took fatal. I they overpaid a guy. In the second round out of Juku the first baseman Ray Rivera who has just looked awful has never done anything so their whole draft was kind of a mass. So this I mean this kind of felt like going back to safe mode a little bit and yeah I mean. There's there isn't really any reason for them to be in safe mode. So you know that the draft expert on the site. I pay a lot of attention. There's a couple of guys who no I would say more than I do. So maybe some of these guys will have a little bit more of a shot. Then I'm giving him Zach. Who took in the the seventh round like yeah really really? Nice looking fastball. Ashfall late like a like a really big time writing fastball and a decent breaking ball he was. LSU's closer. I think he was there. Is there a weekend pitcher. Oh was it. Yeah he was starting there okay and then we can burn in Austin. That's the only reason a prophecy. But let's see him I saw him pitch A couple of games and he looked promising As a relief candidate leads to sell these guys there but yeah outside of green. I didn't really see anybody who had like distant twinkle of like. Hey maybe this guy could you know could put it all together and have the high ceiling that we're not anticipating didn't really see too to many guys who who seem to fit that mold. Maybe maybe Lipsius if everything just go cubs together out of nowhere but that's a lot of just wild hope and speculation on On my part because I I tend to favor like hardworking. You know smart players as long as they're not like unskilled I tend to like WanNa give those guys a little bit of time to see if you know they can. They can develop themselves a little bit and a lot of that is still just like lack of confidence in the Tigers Ability. Develop people all right so Close it out. Give us some bold predictions for the twenty twenty season for the Tigers. Oh God okay the same seat that are we in the same seat seat next year that we are this year to where the Tigers have another number one overall big. I think there is a pretty good chance at that happens. Elman yeah I'm afraid so like I. I would be surprised if we if we were picking lower than third in twenty twenty one and nets you know all kinds of things can happen but the Tigers do have some guys who could break out there. There are some things that can happen. Maybe they'll be more aggressive. This offseason than I think. I think they cut the roster to thirty three heading into the offseason. Then really there's only like one or two guys. They're probably going to protect. So maybe they're going to be more aggressive so then in free agency than that. I think they've sort of habit the past couple of years of like jumping the gun and signing a position of need like early like like they did that with George Mercer last year and as it turned out there were better players available like in mid February and Tigers have under eligible have consistently been behind the curve on a lot of these. These things You know we could've taken Freddie Galveston and signed him for less than they signed. George Mercer for you know and they signed Jordy Mercer. I think like right after the winter meetings So I would like to just be patient and wait and see what values can come out. I do think they need to find themselves. A catcher who can kind of mentor enter Rogers and Greiner and play half the time So I'm I'm looking for him to do that But it's hard to see too much of an impact coming anywhere that would really propel them out of out of the Gutter in L. Central. I mean Kansas City royals look honestly to me like just got off a wasteland as well on despite having a couple talented players so yeah yeah you do have to keep in mind just how bad you know. Some other teams aren't it can be easy to sort of fall on your own Rut and just be like our terrible like all these other teams have all these good prospects blah blah But yeah I'd be surprised if If we were sitting outside of the of the top three next year as far as predictions go. I will say that you will see Casey Mayes and Manning both pitch in the major leagues next season. You will see Isaac Praise in the major leagues next season I think you will see Ron Gardenhire fired. At the end of next season I think That'll be kind of the end Dangerous Post A. Plus Three war season and has laxity back to like ninety three ninety four thrown a nasty slider and suddenly looks like the guy that we got from the Blue Jays again. I'll throw the downing. I'll just throw the ball to the bold prediction about your and say that after the twenty twenty season the Detroit Tigers will be sold to a new owner. I feel it. I just don't see like they're so flat lined. There's so little urgency in this in this organization the past two years there's even as a rebuilding team. You know people keep trying to make these astros. Comparisons like the Astros and the cubs had plans like from the beginning like they were like the plan. And there's a whole lot. Yeah go read the book. I've told people about. Somebody's like the cubs man. They winding Anthony Brazil right away. They knew they were going to build around him. They went and traded for. They didn't care it took you know. Yeah so it's not like you know. Those teams started out with with you know deep farm systems but they were also in a time when you could trade for more and while the Tigers are have been pretty bad about trading players for prospects. It's it's also just gotten a lot harder you know. We keep going back to that. Justin Justin verlander deal and how they make out of that without really anything other than like a backup catcher But that also goes to the dodgers and the and the Yankees who do you know cost himself a world series because they didn't want to give up one good player Maybe that one good player was gleyber Torres or Walker Bueller. So you can. You can take your you know your you pick whether or not that would have been worth it or not but You know it takes two to tango and in that particular case. I don't know that anybody really valued Justin burland properly As far as jd Martinez Ivica tires just absolutely just booted that by by jumping the gun and trading too soon and then we watched him go to Arizona and hit like thirty. Thirty home runs in two months so I got nothing back so yeah I mean there's just a lot of reasons where I don't think this front office has done well really Elliot anything and I don't see any pressure from the the ownership to do any more than that. Maybe this off season will tell us. Tell us more but all whole I'm basically looking at the next year like this next cycle like this offseason the next draft next trade deadline and if they haven't found like a couple of of impact bats at the major the League level in the minor leagues like some combination I really could see us just being in in sort of a vortex suck for a long time to come. Where we're a team that pitches pretty well and play scrappy like twins? Bullshit baseball on the field and wins eighty one games every the year like that that might be the high It's really hard to see US getting beyond that. The way things are now so yeah. There's there's a big prediction i. It just feels like the villages are on their way out.

tigers baseball Miguel Cabrera Shane Green astros Detroit Tigers jd Martinez braves Brennan Dixon Jack Rogers Yankees Alan Trammell Lou Whitaker Louisville Canada golf Matt Boyd George Mercer Gordon Beckham Spencer