20 Episode results for "Graham Nash"

Disharmony Part 1: Crosby vs. Stills, Nash, and Young

Rivals: Music's Greatest Feuds

1:12:23 hr | 6 months ago

Disharmony Part 1: Crosby vs. Stills, Nash, and Young

"Rebels is a production of iheartradio. com. Hello everyone and welcome to rivals the show about music beefs and feuds and long simmering resentments between editions. I'm Steve and I'm Jordan and crosby stills Nash and Young I've. Cried in saying that I'm so excited. This is like the rivals equivalent of like the Godfather trilogy it's Long It's complex. The villains keep changing. It's great. Buckle up we kept it at three because Graham Nash has generally been kind of like the passive player throughout the saga. You know he's more like reactive rather than the aggressor. He just seems like you know the most decent guy but the others have done more than their fair share of mudslinging Today, we're going to look at how David Crosby has screwed over and been screwed over by the other members of this beloved musical collective. Crosby to me seems like a good starting point because he's the one who is currently on the outs with everybody in Cs ny I I saw this quote recently. Neil Young said that David Crosby should write a book called why don't my friends WanNa talk to me? Just pretty brutal. But as we'll see as the series unfold Stephen Stills and Neil young have also been very big agitators in this world. So like Jordan I'm extremely excited to dig into those conflicts as well. Can I just say though at the start how much I love CSI y both as a band and as a soap opera, they're all like such great songwriters and musicians. I, mean just think of all the incredible like tunes these guys have given us there's just a like. A such a long list but they're also just like incredible divas I mean you won't find a more fascinating high of bitchy characters than this one, Oh yeah. Cross is by far away my favorite member of CSM why he's just he's one of the greatest characters in rock and roll history right I. Mean He's Hilarious. He's articulate he's excessive and he's probably second maybe to Keith Richards is like rock and roll most unlikely survivor I mean the fact that he's Ground All's miraculous but also he's like more prolific than ever is last couple of albums have been amazing and now he's this like twitter. Dear Abby figure I. Mean it's Great. Warms my heart you know even though the rest of. Apparently hates them. What's that line from the dark night you either die heroes where you live long enough to become a villain. I feel like that's true. Of David Crosby I mean I I had forgotten just how down and out he was at his lowest in the nineteen eighties he did prison and he was in prison I mean, yeah, I mean this is a guy who clearly had a room set up just offstage at every concert just so he could have a space to freebase cocaine between songs. Like It's amazing and frankly a miracle that he lived this long to Piss off his one time friends well into their seventies I can't wait to get into this. So without further ado, let's get into this. A. Oh, man, I mean just so much again too. But the perfect starting place is really back at the birds David's time in. Legendary folk. Rock Group that's a whole episode of the best bands ever credible American ranked. Episode later on we'll go quickly through that the birds of course folk rockers fused the rookie lyrical poetry of Bob Dylan Pete Seeger with the melodic sophistication and amplification of rock bands like the Beatles in the mid sixties they had number one with Mr Tambourine man turn and I would say that the birds were probably the most transformative evolve of the pro CS NY bands. I think that they had a huge hand and turning L. A. in. A major musical hub in the early sixties I mean, the beach boys did that a little earlier but I think the birds made la cool on par with New York in. San. Francisco. And you know in the birds no one was cooler than cross. You know like I said, he was one of the great characters in rock and roll. He's he wore the KB with all the newspaper like profiles of him around the time. have him like on his huge motorcycle with as they call them Batman. He had this big leather Cape that he wear regardless of the season Dennis Hopper famously. MODEL, his character easy rider after after cross i. mean he just you knew him you saw him around and you knew that this this was somebody and he you know he's hanging out with the Beatles. The best we dated the prettiest girls new the best people what else did you need I mean he's like the prototypical Rockstar hedonist and I think Stephen Stills later described as like Brando he had no boundaries but also Mike Brand he was Kinda Kinda mercurial. Yeah. That's a nice way of saying it I think in a less of saying it is that he was a huge ego maniac. And it seemed like from the beginning he was alienating his collaborators in the birds. He was the coolest guy but he acted like he was the coolest guy and not cool. That's never cool. It's cool in the problem was that he was not the leader of the band either Roger Mc win was the person who was in charge of that band. I would also say that in terms of just talent, I think gene Clark was the best songwriter. So even when you look at David Crosby all that he's accomplished I I feel like he was maybe like the third ranked guy and the birds even though a lot of ways you say he was like this cool guy, he had a really high media profile. There's this hilarious quote from Terry Melcher where he was asked. Once, of course, Terry Melcher is this record producer from the sixties produced the birds. He also were Paul Revere and the raiders and a bunch of other sixties rock bands someone wants asked Terry Belcher. Difficult person that he ever worked with in without blinking an eye he said David Crosby, his number two choice was Charles Manson. and. Keeping. My Charles Manson tried to kill Terry Melcher or he wanted to kill Terry Melcher that's you lived in the house on yellow drive originally that the Manson family went in, they committed all those terrible murder. So even compared to Manson Terry Melcher thought that David Crosby was more difficult eventually of course, David Crosby ended up getting bounced from the birds and there's completing stories about whether he was fired or whether I mean I think it's good that he was fired but wasn't also story that maybe he quit maybe at some point I think there was like some sort of weird thing like I think crosby kind of pushed the idea that he was treated unfairly. By those guys stills later turn a rat out cross and say like, yeah, he likes to say that he was fired but it was really more mutual agreement I. I think it definitely helped crosby's crowd later on and be like Oh. Yeah. I the birds couldn't handle me because by the sort of like sixty, six, sixty, seven, the birds were sort of not seeing as as cutting edge then sort of in sixty five or at least sixty six and I think he liked the idea but like oh yeah. No I moved on them. They were rejecting my songs. He famously put forward the Song Triad, which is basically his owed the threesomes and he loves to save. Gwen. Was Way too squared to handle a song like that and Maguire later say, no I rejected it because the songs sucked Pat Song. So there's crosby likes to make himself out to be this outlaw who was kicked out of this like squeaky clean. Plastic. Pop Band. But yeah, it seems more like they were just diverging one-storey love from that time is about the cover of the birds album that the notorious Byrd brothers, which is a great radyr record. It was the first record of the birds put out after Crosby was bounced out of the band and on the cover it's mcguigan. It's Chris Hillman Michael Clark, the Drummer and there's a horse. David Crosby saw that cover he thought that the horse was supposed to represent him and so he was very insulted by that mcgrane denied and he said he s we meant it to be crossed. We would have had the horse turnaround. So you just saw its backside it's an incredible comeback. You know my theory about David. Crosby, and I feel like this will be borne out as we get into this episode and we talk about all of his experiences over the years is that he's at. Heart you know this kid that craves attention. You know he's like the little boy who was I know that he had a difficult relationship with his father I. Don't think he ever got the attention. You really needed from that paternal figure and it seems like he will do anything to get the attention that he craves even if it involves throwing his bandmates under the bus, like I was reading a David, Brown's book about crises, Stills Nash, and Young, which is an incredible book by the way. You should definitely go check it out and there's a story in there where he's talking about it it's like one of the many times at crosby tried to go through Rehab in the seventies and there was a psychologist that I did an analysis of him in conclusion was that David Crosby is a person who is perpetually dissatisfied and can't derive any contentment from his relationships. And that line really struck me as being profoundly sad. But it seems like that explains him a lot of ways like he's a self destructive person in his own life and I think a lot of ways in his relationships there's something in him. That just has to kind of throw a monkey wrench into even good situation definitely thrives on chaos for the reason you imagine probably just attention seeking behavior and it shows up again and again, and then you add tragedy later on as we'll see when we talk about the death of one of his girlfriends that's just catastrophic and that sends them off down this this Pacific trail of drug abuse and and. Audi clashes but but that's why he's so good on twitter. Because He loves attention like that is like a godsend for somebody like him. If only twitter had existed in nineteen, sixty nine, maybe a lot of this could have been avoided. Can you imagine mcguigan crawls now on twitter? Pretty hilarious. But can you imagine them in like sixty, six, sixty seven going at it talking about like Triad or something crosby blocked. McCoy did on twitter. Yeah because I think we'll Gwynne is a born again Christian he's trying to preach to crosby. So you know maybe say crosby was justified in that respect but yeah I mean that's another rivalry we could talk about crosby mcguigan but you know we digress we should get back to the. Story absolutely. Okay. So Cross, it's sixty six. He meets Graham Nash. Of course, the person who introduces them the the leading light, the patron saint of crosby stills. Nash, and young is Mama Cass Mama Cass Elliot of alums in the poppas she introduces Graham she was a real anglophile in the sixties and when the holidays came to town, Graham Nash's banned She said, Oh really want you to meet my. Friend Crosby David Crosby. So she drives him up to his little bungalow in Laurel Canyon and and Crosby has this real like very, very visceral first impression of crosby sorta laying on the couch rolling joints without even looking. He can just do it just by touch and carrying on a full conversations with people and I thought I remember in grams book that that was the first time we ever got high which. Sounds kind of crazy but I don't know I like I like to believe that was the guy got him high for the first time maybe I'm wrong they became pretty close they hit it off and visit each other when they were in their respective cities and they both kind of occupied similar roles in their band. Graham was really fat up with his lot in the hallways who were hugely successful incredible harmony band. Probably. One of the most lightweight British invasion groups that I can think of great great pop songs like Carryanne. Kick? Ass Steel Drum. Solo like bus stop credible songs but they weren't really they didn't have a lot of lyrical emotional half and Graham all harm right right and grams trying to sort of push them forward. He wrote a song called King Midas in reverse in sixty seven, which was a little bit deeper. Everything you touch turns to to stone everything he touched. That's how he felt about the world. That time is it a very unhappy part in his point in his life and you know pop songs are generally happy if they're not about like a break-up or something, and there's the song about existential angst and with this really complex production arrangement and all sounds like strawberry fields or something big elaborate orchestral thing and the song tank to sort of confuse their listeners and Crosby sorta gone through that himself in the birds he'd had song his first birthday side was called lady friend and it was very different than the birds materials SORTA. Louder and faster and rockier sound like sort of like a totally different ban that also tanked. So they both were kind of like trying to pull their bands forward in just a musical sense to help them progress and the fans and the rest of the band weren't really going for it, and in the same way that the birds passed on David's triad, the holidays were passing on grams newer songs like Marrakesh Express they tried to do with the holidays and they just weren't feeling and they abandon it. So they had a lot to talk about it's funny like Marrakesh Express was considered too for the holidays because that's a pretty lightweight song. Like. WHOA this. This is too edgy man. This is too revolutionary this song about like. Going American having like this fun adventure. So yeah would you look at the early days of? Crosby is certainly, I think the pivot point between Nash and stills he's bringing these guys together because while he's hanging out Graham Nash, he's also getting no Stephen Stills and at that time Stephen Stills of course was one of the main artistic forces in Buffalo Springfield who I think in many ways you could say were arrival band or maybe even like a successor band to the birds they came around a little bit. Later, they were starting to become this hip local band. At a time when as we said before, the birds were starting to fade a little bit and crosby being this attention seeking Glory Hound essentially Yo he knew what time it was and he started cozying up to Buffalo Springfield and he actually ended up playing with that band at the Monterey pop festival because Neil young the other main creative force in that band he started flaking out around this time he he didn't WanNa play Monterey pop he famously bailed before a high. Profile appearance on the Johnny Carson Show when Buffalo Springfield would have been the first rock band to ever play on Carson young basically bailed before they were supposed to tape that which would, of course be very patient for how Neil Young would would behave in the future. So he starting to cozy up the stills and and they're starting to talk about also having some sort of musical union and can I just say that like Stephen Stills is like my favorite member you? said. At the start that David Crosby is, is your guy in this group I'm a huge stills fan and We'll talk more about that in our next episode because Stephen Stills is going to be the focal point time but I mean is to say that Crosby is most responsible for these guys coming together I would say, so yeah, I mean, he he instills were trying to make a duo after after crosby got from the birds and still after Buffalo Springfield. A duo call the frozen noses which was. A. Cocaine Reference which some Nice foreshadowing there It's a pretty early to be making a cocaine. Sixty eight they were ahead of the curve. Blow before a lot of people and they would do more blow than a lot of. The seventies unfold drug-using Pioneers. That's absolutely true. Yeah. I would say that because I still didn't really know Graham very well, but there's a famous story in before Graham Left. The hollies is would have been I think in February of sixty eight. The hollies came to La and play the whiskey ago and Stephen Cross showed up as kind of like cheerleaders. They would later say they were in the front row cheering and getting everybody pumped for the hollies who were not that cool of a band and after. The hallways did their show they all crammed into steals cars, stills, crosby, and Graham, and they're they're driving around talking and I guess Graham went to the bathroom or something and crosby stills and says, okay which one of us is going to get him they both wanted to work with Graham early on but yeah, I think the Cross was definitely the linchpin between the two yen is that famous story? We're I feel like it's changed depending on who's telling it about the first time that they sang together. I've heard that it was like Mama Cass is house. I've heard WHO's at Joni Mitchell's House I. Don't know if there's like a definitive version of that story only knows that they started playing the song you don't have to cry which was a Stephen Still Song ended up on the first crosby stills. Nash record and it seems like they hit upon that like iconic harmony sound pretty quickly. Yeah. I always love the fact that for a band that fought so much they can't even agree on the first time they say. Would they all have very very like photographic style memories of how they believe that went down and they're all different. All three are different. The one this most commonly said it was as. House grandma just come from London right from the airport and he arrived there and and Steven and David were were there and they wanted to play some of the they're frozen noses material further, friend, Graham and he asks them to sing the song. You don't have to cry again and he's listening to it, and then Graham asked him sing the song a third time and Crossan Stephen I'm like what the Hell's he? What's he doing like I know the songs good. But three times on route Jesus. So he starts singing third time and Graham has caught the lyrics by this point and he sings in the ads is the top level harmony and yeah they would always say the crosby stills Nash which is born in that moment at this at this little dinner party at at Joanie Mama, CASS this house depending on who's telling the story and yeah, it was really where it started. Yeah and speaking of Joni Mitchell she was involved with David. Crosby. Early on he ended up like producing her first record they they were sort of A. Thing I don't know how serious that was, but it was at least a fling of some sort and then Graham. Nash comes along and Graham. Nash, I've read a lot of see us ny books. He has this reputation for being a ladies man essentially like he's got the British accent is a pretty good looking guy. He is not a raging ego maniac at least not to the degree that the other guys in the band are. So he's pretty charming and sensitive and he swoops in and he ends up sweeping Joni Mitchell offer feet. So it seems like crosby was fairly cool with that. He's like not really protested. About that too much over the years. But again, you see like this is another sort of premonition of what's going to happen in the span because there's going to be other conflicts over women that occur Uranus group but you know it's fascinating about the name of the band is that they weren't the birds they weren't Buffalo Springfield. They didn't adopt like a band moniker they put their names in the name of the group, and that was a very deliberate decision because they were all used to being in bands and all the ups and downs that you experience and things like that and also knowing that when you are. In. A band if someone leaves, it's very easy to replace them and the idea was that we're going to put all of our names in the title of the band because no one is replaceable and it also shows that we're all individuals at the same time I have to say to that you know again looking ahead that I feel like that band named benefited David, crosby. The most especially as we look ahead to the nineteen eighties because during that time, he became a real liability in the group where on their records they were subbing in other singers for him essentially but like they had to put his name. On the title card or they couldn't get record deals essentially. So it's like if they hadn't been called that if they had just been the frozen noses or something. I. Wonder of Crosby would have been the first one replaced. Wow. Yeah. That's a good point too because I always view their name as. You said that it was a way to protect them and make sure that they were all none. Owen was expandable I almost thought it was the opposite where made the ban the lot more amorphous and people could sort of come and go as they please like okay. Maybe this next album is going to be stills nash or maybe the next one is going to be crosby and. Nash or maybe the next one is going to be stills and crosby and I also thought it is being sort of like an open relationship because they they all had such horrible experiences in their prior bands and that this was sort of like a way of not labelling the band was just themselves and the next the next time around they think this happened in the seventies to. Ban And all the crosby Nash albums and stuff. So I, guess, it worked both ways to a protected them as a as an entity that they weren't replaceable but it also made the ban a lot more fluid are hand. We'll be right back with more rivals. ooh. Hi, there I'm Jordan from rivals are recent three part episode on Crosby Stills Nash, and young helped me rediscover the many sounds and styles of Neil Young, and you know the best way to listen using a pair of premium wireless ear buds especially if you can get them less than half the price of the other guys, that's why I recommend wireless ear buds from RECON I was blown away by the comfort and clarity of my cons. If you would hear all the grit of Neal's six hour solo on down by the river ray cons or the way to go break newest model the day twenty, five year buds of their best ones yet with six hours of playtime seamless Bluetooth. Pairing. More. Base a more compact design and the noise isolating fit plus reindeer ear buds are stylish and discrete with no dangling wires or stems. The company was Co founded by Ray, J and celebrities like Snoop Dogg Melissa Ethridge Brandy, or obsessed with their products. So give them a try break on a forty five day free return policy. 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Just text, the word voter, two, four, zero, six, four, nine, or visit headcount dot org for more INFO and headcount can walk you right through registration. If you're already registered, they would love it if you would take me plus three pledge. So make a plan to vote and then get three friends to join you, and if those friends are registered heads headcount dot org with them and make sure that they do get registered it takes two minutes to do this, but it has a huge impact. Don't wait registered today and vote on. November third. So as we head into that I record that iconic crosby stills and Nash Record where they're all sitting on the couch. Of that house. In Los Angeles I feel like we maybe should dig deeper into that in our stills episode because stills really was the driving force of that record and obviously crosby and Nash made vital contributions in terms of their songs with crosby specifically, the songs gwen Aveer he co-wrote wouldn't ships. On longtime gone obviously a big part of that record but it seems like the making of that record was relatively smooth because stills was the one in charge and crosby and Nash were willing to go along with what he was doing, and then things started getting a little weird when they had to come around a touring because stills played all the instruments on the record essentially and then they had to bring in another musician to. Round out their live sound. That's how Neil young ended up in the band and that's a huge drama I feel like that's more still centered drama though I mean, do we want to get into that and this episode to Yell let's simply more about stills I love how stills would later refer to kneel as the snake the snake that they lead into their like Laurel Canyon Garden of Eden doesn't really unfair. I. Don't know it's like you know. You invited him first of all. Well, you know and. I don't Wanna get ahead of ourselves, but I feel so bad for stills on some level because I feel like Neil young has traumatized him. Many many times like in their relationship even though now they seem like pretty cool. You know again like it seems like the other guys in the spanned at this point all like each other in the thing that unites them as hating Crosby, like they all hate crosby or at least like they're distracted by their other like stills does have feuds with Neil young or vice versa, it's not taking. Precedence over like the Anti crosby sentiment at this time. But again, that's we're getting ahead of ourselves. There's so much to discuss in this story. I think next in this time line with Crosby, we have to talk about the Christine. Hinton story is his girlfriend who died was that in sixty nine yeah. That was WRI proserve recording, deja Vu, and it just absolutely heartbreaking story I mean she was crosby's. Sound, terrible. His main girlfriend he obviously, he was very into the free love thing at this time but very, very, very close to her and loved her a great deal and she was I guess driving a VW bus with some kittens that they had either rescued or just got to the vet and one of the kittens scratched her and she instinctively swerve the wheel swerving across the center lane and drove into into oncoming traffic and what a weird way to die I'm sorry it's like. That's why I'm a dog person. Is the mostly lower child dies heartbreaking. Stephen King wrote like. Child story something. It's like a very steven king type thing it's awful and she was twenty one years old. She's just a kid and crosby really that I think is the thing that set them off in to this path that would lead to freebasing cocaine on the side of the stage when he would say in his in the documentary from two thousand and nineteen, remember my name. He'd say there was just this emptiness after she died. It was like a rip in the fabric in an empty place and leaves a big hole where you just want to fill. It and he would spend much of the next two decades just kind of feeling it with with heroin cocaine. He said, it was painkiller really just numbed him and helped them pretend that nothing had happened there really mean he was in really rough shape Graham and Mama Cass took him to to London for a wild trying to get his mind off things and they wouldn't even let them go to the bathroom on his own. He was basically unlike suicide watch it that that period and the spilled over into sessions for deja Vu and he was really barely functional. Tears on the Mike Yeah and you know and keep in mind you know the first crosby stills Nash record comes out and it's a huge hit and you know there's a their stories about how that album was essentially like the soundtrack of Los Angeles in Nineteen, sixty nine like you couldn't go into a head shop or the grocery store or anywhere in La without hearing those songs over and over again. So there are a huge band of the. Biggest, band in America basically at that time. So there's a lot of anticipation for Deja of course, they've added Neil young into the mix and Neil young really wasn't that big of a star yet. He would become a big star because of his association with this band but as the recording that record in contrast with the first album, which again, it seems like that would relatively smooth the novelty of working together. It seems like they weren't arguing much. Now. They're going to DEJA VU in. It's the old story about you know people getting a little bit of money notoriety, the ego start coming into play. You've Neil young entering the picture, and he has a much different way of working. He's challenging Stephen Stills Authority. Again we're GONNA get worn to that in our next episode, the the stills versus young psycho drama going on. But as it pertains to crosby stills like he was not all that understanding of like the pain that crosby was going through at this time I, still like this perfectionist taskmaster and he is. Just making crosby go through the paces on the record. He's demanding perfection like I think on the title track. He made crosby play that sound like a hundred times. Two hundred takes of that song. It's very tricky type signature. And, it was also the the conflict over almost cut my hair where stills was just like this song to sloppy and also I have to say that like I don't know how you feel about this almost cut my hair I kinda like that song but it's also like pretty dumb. lyrically like that line where he's like must be because I had the flu for Christmas an feeling up to par increases my paranoia like looking out my mirror and seen a lit up he says police car it's like come on. Dude. But but at the same time I, still go easy on cross here man like just lost his girlfriend's a pretty terrible time for him in his very still way he tried to kind of make a man. He wrote a song called do for the others which I don't think didn't wind up in the mix I don't know where might have been a bonus track later on. where he wrote it for Crosby to sing and it was basically about it headlines. Portrays. Crosby as cries with the misery lies singing harmony before coaxing him to borrow the life of his brothers was kind of like a lean on your brothers strength Kinda Song, which was his way of trying to distract crosby. I guess you could say with work which is a very still thing to. Get them back on the Mike with something that he might might relate to I mean I always whenever I think of their relationship, I think of that footage that is in every crosby stills and Nash documentary of Crosby in a Hammock just kind of lying there with joint hanging out of his mouth and stills hanging over him just being like I'm not to give an inch to fear. But waiting for you for two days you asshole and he's just berating Crosby I. Don't know what caused the fight, but I can use my imagination that they're working methods are so different. I. Mean Still said is the guy who was in the studio for eighteen hours a day or later in the seventies well, not even that I mean from what I've read, it was like twenty four hours a day like go on these benders like where he would be in the studio around the clock for like five days and like engineers would come in and out of the studio essentially because he would not stop working I mean I've seen that confrontation you're talking about and I just look at it as an example of two different types of drugs at work like. Trust visa pure we'd. is on the hammock instills is just like uncut MC cocaine. Just, a hundred miles an hour and. Trick. But the other thing cross at this time to and I wanted to get your take on this because we both have seen the documentary remember my name came out in two thousand nineteen like really great documentary about David Crosby. One of the things that struck me about that movie though is that like they spend a lot of time talking about the song. Ohio. which ended up. You know that came out in nineteen seventy of course, right after the Kent State Shooting and ended up being this iconic crosby stills, Nash and Young Song. But like crosby whenever he talks about that song, it's almost like he wants to take personal credit for writing it because he always tells a story about how he told Neil young that. You should write a song about this and showed them i. think it was like the cover of life magazine with the Ken State that famous photo I don't know I just look at that like as another example of him maybe kind of glomming onto something that someone else did because as Neil Young wrote that song like baby crosby didn't write that song but. I mean it might be too hard on him though in that respect to hear cross tell it. He makes it sound like he spoon fed the lyrics to kneel who just Kinda like basically edited it and they went from there. But yeah, crosby's always makes it seem like it was his idea he made the call. Okay. We should all say something get into. The studio right now we're GONNA, we're GONNA work this out right now I don't think it really went down like that but I think that that song I think more than definitely more than like almost cut my hair or something like that or longtime gone, which is written after RFK was killed I Ohio's cemented CSM why as politicized they weren't just like kind. Of Laurel Canyon hippies flower children actually made them figures that stood for something and I think as the years went on the reputation, the Song Ohio is grown for that reason that that. So much of the substance of crosby stills, Nash and young rests on that and I can see why crosby would want to have a piece of that legacy and be responsible. For it because that was their platform Brian and I think he does deserve credit for like you said like he was I think the driving force and reporting that song. So quickly and getting it out, and there's that part of the end of the song where he starts yelling how many more and you can hear the emotion in his voice and that. Is I think the emotional peak of that song I think you're right though in terms of their political reputation Ojo is like a big reason why people look at them as you know being like protests, singers and I think that's that's probably the best protest song outside of maybe fight the power by mobile enemy like the last fifty years I mean, that's incredible song. But when I think of David Crosby, his musical sensibility I think more about like his first solo record if I could only remember my name which I. Think is like one of the great like vibe records of all time like you put that on and you feel like, okay, I know what it was like to be super high in La in nineteen seventy one and the strength of that record is not lyrics I mean there's like sounds they don't even have lyrics. It's just like crosby saying like la La la the entire song like literally I think it was like a couple of songs like that on that record but I actually think that's a strength that album like it doesn't need a lyrics it again, it's more about like the feeling in the vibe of it and you know it's a hammock record is the perfect record to have on when you're in have aided it is gorgeous. I mean, yeah the song without words laughing is incredible, and then of course, you've got the cowboy song, which is like an eight minute or nine minute like. retelling of the crosby stills, Nash, and Young Story to date, which is pretty hilarious too. But Oh my God. Yeah. That album is gorgeous. He got some incredible people on there too right I mean he got gnashing young. He Got Jerry Garcia Got Joni Mitchell I think he had members of of Santana and Jefferson airplane on their the thing that's. Amazing to know about that album is that it was really done to kind of help them through the grief of losing Christine Hidden to so to hear this beauty that he made from this really really dark place kind of makes it all the more astonishing. Yeah. Exactly and ill, it's interesting to that like crosby was making a solo record at that time. And all the other guys were making solo records because essentially after making the first crosby stills. Nash Record and they put Deja Vu which ended up being an enormous hit the one that tour in nineteen seventy and it seems like does a pretty miserable tour and like I think after that tour and seventy, they were like, okay we need to be apart. We need to make our own records now. Yeah. I'm kind of amazed at that tour didn't like finish off the group for good forever or at least for like you know forty years or something? Yeah. It was it was pretty miserable Stephen. Stills had fired their bassist for reasons that were really like basically political because he was getting tight with Neil Neil. Retaliated by demanding that they fire that drummer who's Stephen this led to a huge fight with cross and Neil. There was a the opening night on the tour I guess still had gotten to know where he fell off a horse. Right he fell off a horse and he came onstage with like a body cast or something wrong crutches he was on crutches and he was just like out of it all night and I'm guessing we'll probably get into this more stills episode that he kind of felt his hold on the group slipping and he was just all over the place like he's backing Neil on on helpless and like playing piano, and just like played all over room, and then when crosby goes to introduce stills solo set stills as just like nowhere to be found it was. Miserable tour came to a head in New York. Win Every band member had a little mini solo set in their show. I. Think they did like two songs apiece and during this one night still kept going and that really pissed off the rest of the band I think there was like a physical like battle royale backstage after the show was over and yeah. That really kind of like the defining moment of that tour I think and what's worse stills Graham we're fighting over a woman they're fighting over a really. Credible singer who crosby, and this might have just been the cocaine or really bad. We'd you or believed to be some government agent that was sent by Nixon. Reasonable I. Think he was stone cold sober when he came up with that I think it seems pretty you know on the on the money he's terrified of it's like man like can you imagine being a woman coming into the situation like these poor women like head to deal with these like lunatics because yeah like stills was into Rita coolidge but she was more into Nash and then like the other guy thinks that you`re Like J. Edgar Hoover, it's just like insane. But I feel like in a way like you know that that's why. world had this like inherent toxicity that didn't necessarily translate like when say like crosby and Nash Work Together because like they actually ended up making a bunch of records together David Crosby and Graham Nash. Through. The early seventies that I think are actually like pretty good like the the first one particular Graham Nash David. Crosby is what it's called. I think has some great songs at like southbound train page forty, three frozen smiles a bunch of really good songs and seems like those two guys had a genuine friendship that I don't know if like that they have with the other guys in advance. Those two guys really liked each other and also they just worked together musically their voices, of course, just fit together so well, I mean that is really the core of harmony sound like stills I think is like I think pretty clearly the third best singer out of those three guys I mean. Like his voice I think has some cool qualities to it like I said, I'm a huge fan but in terms of just like pure harmony, you can't beat. Crosby Nash, and you know as we said at the top were not doing a separate episode Nash because I think Nashes like the nicest guy in the span he hasn't really. Instigated a lot of conflicts although in a way I feel bad that we're doing what I think. A lot of people overlook Nash when they look at the spanned like they don't give him his props for essentially the writing their biggest hits in you know being like the Popstar essentially in the group. But I think another reason why we're not talking about Nash separately is that him crosby like a lot of their adventures together until of course, they ended up having very decisive break later on which will get to later in this episode but it seems like like throughout the seventies, you just see this like sort of on thing of like. Getting back together and falling back apart and around seventy, three, seventy four they started to come back together again. Yeah. They're commercial fortunes and Kinda fallen stills had just done the second Manassas album which was kind of everyone beautiful disaster Graham nashes second solo album. Wild Tales Kinda got ripped apart crosby didn't have another solo album for many years. I, believe in the Neal's post-harvest work wasn't selling up to expectations. So they ended up reuniting in in Maui the to work on a very early stages of a new crosby stills. Nash and young album that they tentatively called human highway which has become sort of. Semi mythical for it's It's almost like they're smile tons of songs that were up for consideration at that point also extremely dysfunctional the sessions kind of fell apart. Graham suspects is some kind of weird cocaine deal thing that that went awry but yeah, it just they they. They ended up going their separate ways until they came together the next year. For The doomed Torah seventy four, which was when Oh, my God because this was the year after bill. Graham the the music and Presario got saying you're on the road. The first dealing and the band were early in seventy four and then this crosby stills. Nash and young tour was like the summer and it was like I think it was like the first, Stadium Tour there have been stadium shows that you know the Beatles obviously played some shows its shape stadium in sixties like grand funk railroad played. At Shea but like in of like a series of stadiums I, I'm pretty sure that the doom tour was the first example of that and yeah, I mean. This was I just became synonymous with access and the seventy s not only because of what the musicians were doing backstage including like David? Crosby. Wasn't the period like Rick Crosby was like traveling with with two women at once and like basically just have like a Harem around him. That was like you'd even try to hide it like he was just known that he was like having like Ho- like three way sex every night essentially just like that was like his you know every night in the middle of. Meetings I think people he would come in and talk to people, and then like midway through the conversation, people would realize that he was getting a like a blowjob underneath the table or something like that like that. That level of depravity I believe is what we're talking with. Cross at this era, I mean the phrase cocaine fueled gets tossed around a lot. But I think that's really the only way to put it for this tour I mean it was really this is the one where he like freaked out hotel manager because his room to breezy I think this is the same era. Yeah. My favorite part is any for all the excess and their stories of them like spilling cocaine on rugs, and then all falling to their knees huffing the rug and stuff like that. The item that all the members tend to site for being the ultimate excess of this tour are the pillow cases were they had Joni Mitchell's illustration embroidered on them and I'm just like. Yeah I. Mean I'm sure that caused some money but like how about the time like stills got a private jet to fly in his favorite coors he wanted to six warriors. So he chartered a private jet in had like coors brought to him and I think like in the seventies coors was maybe sort of like a like a more of a boutique beer but still yeah, that's just insane extravagance. Yeah there's a there's A. Figure, that like they made something like eleven million dollars from this tour. But because of all the expenses that they incurred that each guy only made like maybe a couple of hundred thousand dollars you know like so like the expected this to be like a big windfall but you know it's that old story about like when you put a bunch of expensive things on your writer as a band, the venue charges you for that you. Have like the fancy meals by shafts and the private jets like the silk embroidered pillow cases and like all these unnecessary expenses. Just killed them and they go from there to try to make another record feel like there's like several aborted attempts. To make another record like they do human highway again after the doom tour. Yeah, which is a huge tactical error. If you can't get back together in the studio after years apart and have T- tensions flare up, you don't WanNa, do it after being on the road for two or three months in relatively confined space? I mean that was just a bad idea from the star they tried to do human highway again I think they went to I think it was. at Neil Young's broken Arrow ranch in crosby and Nash started fighting was still almost immediately. They were arguing about doing a harmony part Stephen Stills Song Guardian. Angel and still got so angry that he took the tape master of their song wind on the water and just Richard Heart with a razor blade I mean again which. I. said that these guys are bitchy divas like I was not joking like they're like no divas bigger than these guys just insane behavior that they would do that. The the store that gets me is about the long. May you run record which out as a? Dozen Neil young album they were GONNA make a duo record, and this was at the same time that crosby and Nash were making a record called whistling. Wire and you know stills in in younger working together and they eventually decide hey, let's bring crosby Nash into the full. So they ended up recording vocals for the stills young record and there's an idea i. think for a moment that this might become a ceus ny record but then like I forget what the particulars were exactly but it was decided that no, we're not gonNA make this ny record we're gonNA keep it still young record crosby national left to finish their own record and then like young decided to wipe their vocals crosby Nash vocals off this record I've why did he decide? The do that like was there some fight or something? I think that crossing Graham were called back by the label like, okay. You GotTa Finish your record and start promoting this. So I, think that they were called away. It wasn't that they stormed out at. So young was just mad that they left I. IT sounds like that. Yeah it was just so pissed that they left in the you know maybe not the middle of it but like when it wasn't completed yet that he wiped their vocals again, let's let's repeat Neil Young. was upset that someone left early lake you can we just like marinate? For a moment here. You know they Neil, young of all people I feel. I. Should understand if like someone has to leave a project early but at any rate, he's mad he wipes vocals off the record and like Crosby Nash, understandably are very pissed off about that and they're like basically screw these guys. We're not gonNA work with them again. but that was not true. Because they were back in the studio is still. Very soon that to work on the record from seventy seven. Oh. Yeah. I think it was like. Later I mean Neil famously crushed still spirit by leaving him in the middle of the stills young band tour at the famous funny. How things that start spontaneously in the same way eat a peach neil telegram. We're GONNA get into that a lot learn next episode Neil Young, just like traumatizing Stephen Stills over and over again. But. Yeah like ditches stills instills. Stills at one point said like you know like my life is over or like my career is over I have no few. No Future. I Like you know basically like hangs tail and goes back to. Crosby and Nash, and they make this record. I like and I disagree about this a little bit I actually really like the CNN record from seventy seven. It's the one where they're on the yacht and it's like it's a little young exactly. With the with the rock thing because it's very smooth, it's very soft rock. It's very emblematic of like nineteen seventy seven, which was the year of rumors by fleetwood Mac Hotel California by the Eagles ended up. I. Think that came out at the end of seventy six but it was like a huge seller seventy-seven and I really look at is like the third record of that L. A. Rock triumvirate You know you've got great sons in the. Shadow captain which I think is like one of the Best David. Crosby. So that's like one of my favorite cross songs for sure and you know like Stephen Stills Darkstar. Sung I actually really liked the Safra Graham Nash Song just a song before I go i. appreciate that for what it is. I really feel like that's maybe like their last great record but I don't know what do you think you're not as big into that album For me. That was that just felt like I mean in a way I understand that it makes sense that they embrace the whole yacht rock thing I mean because I feel like the success of their first two records kind of lay the groundwork for all the the sort of La access that was the common the seventies. So it kind of makes sense they ended up there but. Something about it feels to me like that was the moment when they started becoming more of an astrologer act I mean the Safra sound for them. It felt like it felt too easy. I don't know. It's not I prefer the Laurel Canyon kind of more acoustic five to the just Basang before I go or or fedral I do like shadow captain and that is a great song but. I don't know just the the soft rock thing kind of bums me out with them in the same way like hotel. California. Makes me uncomfortable because he has the LA access cocaine paranoia. And when I think of CSM WHY I don't want to think of that I want to think of them in in like you know in a Hammock Laurel Canyon the SORTA hippie idyllic setting, and so maybe that's why it just makes me later seasons of madman when you see everybody's kind of like just look bad like p Campbell's like the receding hairline and stuff and they've got all the like wide Paisley ties and. Stuff it just you think back to like how cool and slick and everybody was in the earlier I think that's how I feel about the album. It just feels like you see how far they've come in the sort of uncomfortable setting that they're in now and it just makes me a stall Jack I. Guess If you think n marked their decline then I'm sorry to report that we've got a long way to go. Down Slope with these guys especially with David Crosby because as we enter into the late seventies and early eighties, this is a time where crosby really starts to fall into a bad way and he discovers something that we like to call freebasing cocaine which. Is a terrible thing for anyone to do if you're listening this is my PSA announcement for this episode. Do Not freebase cocaine do not really even snort cocaine avoid drugs you can but do not be like David Crosby as he was in the late seventies and early eighties because, yeah, he was in terrible shape at this time and I mean there's so many horrible stories that we could tell about crosby at this time again like I alluded to this earlier about how crosby's. Habits became so bad at one point that they had to set up separate rooms like in the studio or like off stage at concerts where cross could just go and literally smoke cocaine during shows or like during recording sessions he really was that dependent on this drug and it seems like there were so many instances like through the eighties like where he would relapse and then maybe try to go to Rehab and then relapse again like so many instances like I didn't realize how much. Like he was like comey opportunities he was given basically to recover and then like what he got into legal trouble. He was given many chances to avoid jail time and he just could not stop smoking the Rock, no mammogram and. Jackson Browne stage than intervention at his house, and in the middle of the intervention, he ran off to go to the bathroom to to free base and they caught him and that, and that was when you know they were just like, Jesus Christ. I kinda give up I mean there's only so much that you as friend can do yeah and even his best friend Graham they were trying to make a duo album together and they're having a jam session. It was going really well until crosses freebase pipe fell off an amp and fell on the floor and broke, and then crosby stopped the session and went to go pick up the pieces and. NASA, you know the until that point, the music had always been. I regardless of David's personal problems. But at this moment I knew I couldn't work with them anymore. So that's when Nash and stills got together to try to make daylight again, which was their duo album with the two of them and the company was interested. They said we'll get back in and we can talk. But at this point, we don't really want still. That's what I think. You know why I think before about why having each member's name in the ban title really protected them from being replaced because you know for the purposes like crosby like shouldn't have been on that record like he was not in any condition to contribute to that album although he did actually end up adding a really great song to that record called Delta I think one of the stronger songs daylight again. But. For the most part like he shouldn't have been making records, he shouldn't have been touring should have been like chained to a bed at like basically drying out and straightening out his life but because of the power of the brand like he was brought back into the fold and I, know Crosby as talked about over the years about how he felt like, yeah I feel like those guys cared about me but I also know that they had to pay their bills and you know if I wasn't in the band, you know they weren't going to get the type of concert bookings or the kind of record deals that they would get if it was A. Crosby stills Nash, record I have to say to though like when you listen to bootlegs from that time like I have a bootleg of CNN from nineteen, eighty, five and Saint Louis and that was like I think right around the time that he went to jail like pretty soon after that, I think he went to prison and again this is in the middle of him like freebasing cocaine during shows. There's like this one example of like how crosby left a show to freebase cocaine and like stills through like a bucket of water on him, and then like crosby walked out like drenched in water like he was kind of dazed watching him onstage in that area. Video for southern cross I mean he just looks like he's got the thousand yard. So he's not there he just he looks horrible. Listen to the bootlegs actually sounds pretty good like I don't know like how much cocaine you have to smoke to ruin your voice but like crosby apparently didn't get to that threshold because his voice still sounds pretty good even though he's like in a terrible way like I said, I think was it an eighty five that he went to jail finally? I, think. Yes, it was the end of eighty five i. mean he was a fugitive from the FBI he liked soul blast like valuable item that he had, which was a piano and rented a plane the fly from California to Florida to try to get to his yacht. When he gets there, he's going to basically take his yacht and just spend the rest of his days at sea or something because he didn't really fully thought that one through and then when he found his yard, it was just in total disrepair. Unseaworthy after years of neglect, any turned himself in and he went to prison I think for about a year and nine months or something like that. He he talks in prison they didn't even give an aspirin or anything. He would later say like he just completely went through all that just on like you know a prison bench and then he ended up performing for the first time sober in like twenty years soon after he got out in August of eighty six and and he got back together with CSM? Online Not long after it was part of Neil Young's promise basically they perform together they did one song at at live aid and it was shambles Neil basically said look crosby. If you can get your act together, I'll come back and we'll do something together. I wonder like when Neil Young said that if you actually like dot that crosby just wondering because when I read about that, it kind of feels like one of those promises where you're like, yeah cross if you survive which yeah right you won't. But. Like, if you do yeah, sure I'll play with you guys because like we'll talk and we'll get into this and our Neil Young episode but he dissed those guys so much over the years and like he had something going I just feel like he wouldn't have otherwise felt a strong compulsion to play with those guys again no and the results American Dream kind of bears that out is not a lot of effort in there and he didn't even bother to tore it. Yeah, and that record isn't great and. When we look at like the nineties records that like see us and put out like I live it up that record, which is like one of the worst album covers of all time. It's like it's a shot of the moon and there's like these huge sticks and there's hot dogs on the sticks and then there's like looks like like there's like telephone operators climbing the polls on the cover in like you see the planet earth it's like it makes no sense. Do you know what the is there any kind of meaning? Have you. I've not been able to find anything I would love to now. This is like Oh. Yeah. Like okay. This record called live it up where trying to assert that we're still relevant band We've had some problems over the years. What can we graphically used to represent our sort of rising from the ashes if you will. Oh. How about dogs on sticks on the Moon Oh? Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. To me it just seems like no one gave a shit and and that's that's only reasonable explanation. So that records pretty bad after the storm came after that there's a pretty good record I think like relatively speaking. Expectations It's not too bad. Glenn John's produced. Did so I feel like a lot of these. CNN. Records like sound bad production wise and I think the production on that record is pretty good. Relatively speaking I remember being really disappointed by looking forward because that was like the first CS NY record since deja-vu. Neil young had a great nineties and I think I was expecting it to sound more like a Neil young record from the nineties but like that's another one where. It just sounds kind of weak and a little to sort of adult contemporary why they came in late in the game and basically said, oh. Yeah. I've got these two or three acoustic songs. You can just sorta like stick on it and and so it was really like cs n plus why album I feel like I don't think there was a lot of of collaboration going on there at all. It seems like you know one of the big splits that. Proved to be decisive in the span was they were GonNa do a covers record with Rick Rubin I. Think that was like in two thousand. Ten I think they'd worked on it for a while and like they couldn't get it together mainly because like David Crosby didn't like Rick Rubin Yeah I. Guess He Thought Rick Rubin was like too much of an autocrat to really work with just thought he completely owned every element of the creative process some felt stifled. Was I, know I don't think any of the have you heard any os tracks I don't think any of those tracks ever? No I haven't snuck out. You know like in one respect you're like, oh, a covers record. Okay. I mean that that kind of speaks to artistic bankruptcy right there but it's also like crowds like, Rick Rubin whatever you WanNa say about the guy he has been involved in some. Pretty High Profile comebacks you know and you would think that a Rick Rubin CSM record, it's GonNa get a lot more attention and like live it up or after the storm. Did you know I think that would have given them a pretty good bump but just couldn't get together. But I feel like that's just a precursor to like the big incidents that involved David, crosby that ended up really sort. Of self destructing this band and it just boils down to David crosby talking like interviews right I mean like at least with the Neil Young Daryl Hannah story. It's maybe the pettiest example of the fighting throughout this entire story and the fact that it seems to be like responsible for the longest lasting schism between the mall is blows my mind, right? It's just it David Crosby was giving an interview it was. After Neil divorce, his wife Peggy wife of twenty nine years and he started dating actress, Daryl Hannah and David Crosby September twenty fourteen is giving an interview with the Idaho Statesman and apparently these quotes were supposed to be off the record that's what I later heard. But of course, they were so inflammatory that they were put in the interview. Crosby refers to Daryl Hannah as a purely poisonous Predator and. which you don't say that about your friend's girlfriend especially to an outlet even if it is like supposedly off the record, Neil goes on stage not long after this interview hit stands and tells the concert goers CSM I will never tour again ever. And soon after he makes that pronouncement crosby confirmed that Neal was very angry with me and he goes big apology Tories apologizing on twitter and he goes on Howard Stern and says, you know basically make amends forty I'm screwed up way worse than that girl what are we good off criticizing her she's making Neil. Happy I love Neil and I want them to be happy. Darryl. If you're out there I apologize where do I get off criticizing but then he did the same thing to Graham Nash like Graham Nash ended up leaving his wife, his longtime wife Susan I think her name was or is, and he started dating women in our thirties which you know look you can criticize rockstars for doing that. It's a very rockstar thing to do. But he is not the first. Yeah. He's at the I do it and like David Crosby is not in a position to judge other people. But like apparently like he confronted Graham Nash about this or did he say something on stage even where he was like well, I'm. I. Haven't left my wife. You know Graham over here like making a joke about it. Yeah I think he made he made a joke about like crosby stills Nash and Young said, well, he's I'm the one who's keeping my my marriage house spray which by the way, and again, I'm not trying to be judgmental here. I'm just bringing up as a fact that. Like. The woman that David Crosby as with Jan Dance, they've been together for a long time. But like I think crosby was re responsible for getting her addicted to drugs like for a long time they had to like go through Rehab together because they were such a bad way like they were freebasing essentially together like in the late seventies early eighties so. Again maybe don't throw stones at people especially at Graham Nash like again, we've talked about how I feel like Graham Nash is like the nicest guy in this band like one story that I forgot to tell earlier is that when crosby was in such bad shape and you know was basically selling off everything in order to get money for drugs Graham. Nash like very quietly bought Crosby song publishing I think for like twenty five grand, and then when crosby got cleaned up, he sold the. Publishing back to crosby like he basically bought to publishing. So crosby could sell it off for drugs, which is like an incredible thing for a friend to do and I think it speaks to like what kind of person Nashes and like how much he genuinely cared crosby. So after all of the crap that Nash had to put up with over the years you know for crosby now, like be given him shit about his relationship it just must have been infuriating for him and I know like. The there's a couple of interviews that he's done. One on Youtube. where he is just a rate about Crosby, he says, he told the fucking heart out of the band and like. He distinguishes. Toward the Hornets. Any tore the heart out of CSM which. is just brutal to see Graham Nash evolve people angry that just shows like how far he had been pushed over the course of fifty years. He says I've been there and save his ass for five years and he's treated me like shit and he's right. Yeah it's awful and so. I feel like the story now that gets told is like the official end of the band occurred at at of all places, a Christmas tree lighting ceremony at the white. House. Which? Just. Goes to show like the most knock you ass- setting. You know even that would be infused with trauma by. Because they did this performance. What Song were doing, it was like Do you remember I'm all? Time and like you know there was some issue with the monitors they couldn't really hear each other and. I think it's on Youtube I. Think you can go on and watch it just sounds horrible. I. Know Crosby talked about that being the end of the band. I don't know if they just kinda realized at that point that like Oh we're not sounding very good. I mean it sounds like there are all these other conflicts as well. There were bubbling under. The surface that really kind of again as Nash said, tore the heart out of the band. Yeah and the reference you made the new young saying that should write a book about like why all my friends hate me that's kind of where we're at now with crosby when he put his documentary, remember my name in two thousand nineteen comes across as this like. Apology tour dating back to the birds like everyone he's ever pissed off. So he he's very open about how he can be and now most recently just been sort of trying to make amends and making overtures to the others to to get the band back together for political purposes to election stuff I mean he's sort of doing that but then he also is you know he reiterates in every interview that he does that like he's in the middle of this great creative renaissance right now, which is true. I think his first record in this run that he's put out lately was cross that came out in twenty fourteen and that was his first solo record since if I could only remember my name, it was like, what is that like? Forty three years after that record, and now he's just like put out a record almost every year like in each one like really strong I would say that crosby out of all these guys right now is making the best music like by far. Listen is incredible. So I think he wants to get the band back together but he's also talked a lot about how he was sick of playing the hits over and over again and that he feels much more sort of creatively. Satisfied on his own. So I don't know again I go back to what that that psychiatrists said that was quarter David Brown's book that I think there's A. Quality to David Crosby he searching for contentment and he still hasn't found it and You know maybe he's just sort of destined to be that kind of guy. We're going to take a quick break the word from our sponsor for we get to more rivals. So, this is part of the episode where we talk about I guess the pro side of each part of the rivalry. So I guess with Crosby, we'll look at the pro crosby case I and I think for me like Crosby is probably the most emblematic member of the band like he looks the most like the sixties you know he's got the bushy moustache long, Brown hair I think he also in many ways? Is like the most unique of the ban the terms of like his artistic sensibility he has that sort of jazzy quality. Do a lot of his music. He uses like a lot of you know we're tunings. He's not really writing conventional pop songs that Graham Nash Rights or you know that Amalgam of folk and blues that Stephen Stills is involved in crosby really has his own sort of unique voice artistically and. Again, you know he is making the best music right now I think his late career renaissance is incredibly impressive especially in the midst of all the drama that he's been in the middle of you know like he's really rededicated himself maybe more than he ever has in his life to like making great music and you know for an artist, his age that's really commendable like he's definitely not leaning on nostalgia. No, absolutely, not getting back. You said earlier too I mean the what he brought musically to see us and why feel like is not discussed enough. I mean Deja Gwen Aveer you're right has this weird sort of jazz influence but I also credit him as being sort of the chief vocal arranger of the band and he came up with these all the really unique harmony lines that aren't just like the normal coral triads. I mean all going since same with does we're guitar tunings. He will really unique ways to blend all their voices that. So so interesting and it's funny that his voice is sort of the least distinct I think of of the three you kinda stills anchoring it with this bluesy growl and they've got nashes harmony razor-sharp cutting through on top. He just kind of has this the glue I always thought vocally that. Holds it all together where you almost don't notice it until it's not there and then it feels hollow. So yeah, i. think that the vocal work that the band's known for I really think he doesn't get enough credit for and you're right I just think he's the soul and spirit of the band. I feel like he brought the credit the coolness I think that his social circle and being kind of like know the. King of the La scene at that time was really responsible for getting the band, which obviously had a tremendous amount of talent to this higher level of the buzz that got everybody was excited about this ban all the cool people in La we're talking them up. They always talk about how when they were playing woodstock. They had everybody in a semi circle behind them Jefferson airplane, the band Hendrix, all kind of watching. Them, with their arms folded CNN, what they could do, I. Think Cross is a huge part of that. I, think because he was such a key figure in that social scene that when they exploded, they exploded even bigger because of that. So yeah, I think that he's really the spirit of the band. So when we go I, guess to the pro stills, Nash Young side or like the anti crosby side of this equation. I think for me if you look at the story, it's pretty clear that crosby is like a major pain in the ass and like if he was your friend or he was in your band yeah, I, I don't think there's any reason why you would react any differently than like Roger mcglynn did. Grab Graham, gnashed it or Neil young or any of these people who came to turn against him as I said before I think there's something in David Crosby's personality that just craves attention again is why he's so good on twitter. He always has to have people hanging on his every word and he feels bad if people aren't you know looking at him and giving him praise. So in order to do that I just feel like he ends up hurting the people around him and I think in the Neil Young story where he's like you know calling Daryl Hannah poisonous. I think that. Was Him trying to be a good interview I think those trying to be compelling and like not really thinking like what the weight of his words would be or like him making a joke at Graham Nash's expense about his recent divorce. It's like he's trying to be funny. You know he's trying to be provocative and like ye hurt the people that were closest to him in. The process of doing that and it just seems like he can't help himself. You know he can't help hurting those people even if he might know intellectually that it's not the best thing for him to do. So you know even in a band like with as many ego maniacs in them as like us and why I feel like crosby stands alone as like the king eagerness in this band and. While like you said I think it's helped the band a lot because. He was the king of La and I think he was able to marshal our resources because of that. It's also hurt him a lot and in a way I feel bad for him although at the same time, it's like he's brought a lot of this on himself. Yeah. I. Was trying to figure out if CSM. Would've continued in relative stability had they not welcomed young I think young probably hastened their demise a lot sooner but I was trying to figure out like what things have gone almost as smoothly as they have for the first record they made and I just was thinking of Crosby's personality and not even his drug addiction just personality alone and thinking yeah no, there would have been. Problems there fairly soon after even neo hadn't been in their cross would have blown match it up real quick. Yeah and he certainly blew up there I guess legacy era like when they were touring and you know you could say that they weren't maybe terribly relevant creatively but they were still making a lot of money on the road. But again, maybe those a good thing you know I think from process perspective as much as he might miss those guys, he's also going to say one making great records right now I'm looking forward and you know. So there's lots of ways to look at that but you know when we look at all these guys together and you know what cross brings. To the table I mean, I think ultimately that cross he is. Along with being the biggest like eagerness in the band I think he is like probably the big star outset Neil young you know like in terms of like the original three crosby certainly now is the most famous out of there and as you said before I, think he get really good point about how like when you listen to the vocal blend you don't necessarily notice crosby right away. But like he is the glue of that harmony and the uniqueness of talent and his ability to be like a great complement to the other people in that band, you know just wouldn't have been A. I think without Crosby I, feel like the band gave him the perfect set parameters to really excel and make good work because it was structured enough to give him a reason, the work, which if you consider all the decades where he didn't put out any solo albums, it's pretty good. Occasionally, you probably wouldn't have. He's not that prolific on his own gave marina show up, but it was also free. Form enough that he felt like he could experiment and try different ideas and also different incarnations with Nash. Yes. But you know it looks like at this point, there will be no incarnations with anybody I mean do you I mean do you have any hope that like they're gonNA forgive crosby at some point and then and do something together I do have especially now with all the concerts being shut down. I'm hoping that Kinda win everyone is able to get out and be together again, they kind of us as an opportunity to like okay let's all join together musically ourselves on stage and the community in front of us in the audience I'm hoping I don't know it just it seems like I know it's personal as opposed to so many arguments before we're more professional music base and this is something so hurtful about somebody's romantic partner but I hope that as they're getting up there in years and they can pass this has apologized enough times. Yeah. We'll. We'll see if the hostility is a long time gone by that time. Together always have to work in the Corny joke. Great Cooperating Song title at the end of another rivals episode like we said, this is the first part of our crosby stills, Nash and Young Series we're going to be talking about Stephen Stills next week, which I'm really excited about it's going to be part two, and then part three is going to be Neil Young So lots of Fun Laurel Canyon Cocaine Fueled Adventures ahead of us very excited to get into it until then thanks for listening to another episode of rivals we'll be back with more beefs and feuds in long simmering resentments next week. Rivals is a production of iheartradio. The executive producers are Sean, tone, and Brown the supervising producer, Taylor Chicane, interested McNeil, the producers, Joe Hats that I'm Jordan runtaugh I'm Steven. Hyden you like what you heard, please subscribe. Lisa. Review for more podcasts from my heart. visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Crosby David Crosby Crosby Stills Nash crosby Stephen Stills Graham Nash David Neil Young Graham cocaine Nash crosby Nash Rick Crosby crosby Joni Mitchell crosby mcguigan La Laurel Canyon Beatles Neil twitter Stephen
Disharmony Part 2: Stills vs. Crosby, Nash, and Young

Rivals: Music's Greatest Feuds

59:58 min | 6 months ago

Disharmony Part 2: Stills vs. Crosby, Nash, and Young

"Rivals is a production of iheartradio. Hello, everyone, and welcome to rivals the show about music beefs and feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and I'm Jordan and welcome the second of our three part series on crosby stills, Nash, and young. Today we're going to focus on Stephen Stills the unofficial musical director in the band's early. Days later US chief aggressor as he struggled with his old. Buffalo Springfield bandmate Neil young to maintain its dominance. They're basically the US and Russia the CSM NY called dynamic. I mentioned this in our first episode in this series. But like I remember, you said that David Crosby is your favorite member of the band and I episode for me like my favorite is Stephen Stills at least of like the nine Neil Young members like I feel like you have to distinguish meal young like the rest of the band I mean Neil is definitely the biggest but in terms of just like the rest of the guys I, I'm a genuine fan of Stephen Sills I think again outside Neil Young. He's the best songwriter, the most talented musician and the most charismatic and people forget that in many ways like. was his baby in the beginning that first album the iconic record where it's him and Graham Nash and David Crosby sitting on that couch in the house and I think that's still like my favorite record like the come out of this collective like that was Stephen Stills. Is like work like he played most of the instruments he was as you said, the musical director of the band and he wrote. Like many the best known songs like Sweet Judy Blue Eyes and helplessly hoping those are all Stephen still songs and his ambition like really fueled this group at the beginning. Yeah. I feel like stills have been really overshadow recent years and navy's because Nash Torso months and he has his memoir and crosses so prolific in the studio and on twitter and Neil Neil young but I feel like still you know Was the main reason for these guys come together and he's the Lynch pin of the sound in so many ways and he just Kinda I, feel like he gets forgotten sometimes. Yeah. You'll still to me in many ways it's like kind of a tragic story it because I think he really was a brilliant guy and until about nineteen seventy two or so I think it really did keep pace with Neil. Young I think that they were equals for a while and then something happened. It was like a mix of ego booze drugs and bad choices like derailed Stephen Stills while Neil young just kept going and became the Neil Young we all know one love but even now I still love Stephen Stills. His music I love his songs I love his career and I love, of course, his many many football jerseys. So. So excited to get deep into the stills verse here on our second. In Series. So without further ado, let's get into this mess. Art Well the heart of the Stephen Stills CS, ny rift you really gotta take it back to the Buffalo Springfield days with new young and Buffalo Springfield. Again, almost like the birds with crosby could be its own episode should tolley do Buffalo Springfield episode later on down the road, it's filled with drug twists and deportation drama and it's just amazing. It's amazing that after dysfunction. Of that group, they still decided to give it another shot. That's still blows my mind the Stephen. Met In in sixty five and they were both playing clubs in Ontario and Stephen Stills. Bam. Broke up soon after any move to La to try to make it as a as a session musician and famously auditioned for the monkees which could you imagine if that happened like? History would be different if Stephen. Stills got the Monkees Bart that Peter Tork God. Oh Yeah. They're just be like you know all these Conga parts and Latin music breakdowns and Blues, guitars the monkees just would have been far out with Stephen Stills in the band. But I guess thankfully, for all of us, he did not get the part Neil and Bruce Palmer Bass player. Were in a band called the mynah birds with an early Rick James which I highly recommend listening to the band broke up when Rick James Went Awol decided to go to L. A. to try to find stills and get something started they went to La and they couldn't find him Neil and Bruce. Looking for Stephen Everywhere, looking at all the clubs and. Stuff they couldn't find him. They're about to give up and head to central Cisco when they actually were stuck in a traffic jam on sunset and there were looking going the other direction was Stephen still is one of the great traffic jams in rock history. Great for two traffic jams. This this only happened in the sixties I think you could just be. Driving around randomly and then you're GonNa meet like Oh. Yeah. What's form band with this guy and we're going to be icon on the side of the road. Oh Yeah. I mean incredible story and from what I understand. It was like a couple of weeks later in April nineteen, sixty six that Buffalo Springfield made their debut and it came together really quickly. The whole sort of I don't WanNa, call it a gimmick, but the crux of the band was centered around the interplay between Neil and Stevens. Guitar, work that was kind of like you know their gimmick. Really it was a time when bands lewd of the selves to like really short little tight eight Bar Solos. Listen to like George Harrison Solos and stuff in. The stones it really they weren't these long winding guitar pyrotechnics that you hear. Later in the decade, there are really short and I think it's important to point out too that this is like before the allman brothers, it's before Leonard Skinner. It's before like a of the famous guitar bands that we're used to seeing where there's to. Qatar. Players going at it. I mean like Buffalo Springfield like really were pioneers in that kind of sound and it's fascinating that they didn't really get a chance to pursue it in part because I guess nealon Stephen couldn't get along. Yeah. It's funny. You read all the reviews of their live shows at that time and and even some of their studio work and they always describe the guitar. Solos violent terms like dealer and bowels war and you know it's kind of the way it was. I mean you've got still sort of more blues based solely on the Neal's of a tonal squeals, the stuff that you be known for later on I think the track bluebird is probably the coolest example von record of how they played off each other. That's such an amazing song. Yeah absolutely. Yeah. Off the Buffalo. Springfield again record, which was their second and last record as a band. Yeah. I mean you you hear the tension in the track stills in some of the early press byles for the ban. There's actually a line that says Stephen Stills is the leader at least he thinks he is which is. Pretty Amazing. Even early on there were like Kinda joking not so joking at this he would say, yeah, I was trying to be the boss. You know I I had this military upbringing in the south and went to military school and they taught me how to be an officer and I was trying to like you know just be the leader here and that graded on young Neil who is equally strong willed but I think more quiet and reserved and they butted heads the whole time. Yeah and you. Can See this play out in the singles that were coming out early in Buffalo Springfield career because the first couple of singles that came out you had nowadays clancy can't even sing and burned which were both Neil young songs and neither really went anywhere in terms of being hit the next single however for what it's worth a Stephen Still Song that of course ends up being a huge hit and it's a song that even to this day I think is like one of the iconic sixties I guess protest songs. It's not like an explicit protests more song about protesting I think but. You hear that Guitar Hook on the song and the you know, hey, stop what's that sound everybody looks going down I mean it's such a famous song I mean it was revived recently at the Democratic National Convention, it's a song that like you hear you still feel like it has modern relevance and I think that's on becoming a hit. It probably emboldened stills at that time to feel like Oh, yeah. This is my band like I'm writing the biggest song. I can really take control here and it doesn't seem like it's a coincidence that like once that's becomes a big hit. That's when Neil young starts looking at the door essentially like he's now feeling like, okay, I don't. Really want to be in this band and it is very fascinating dynamic that exists between these two guys because as you said, like Stephen Stills had this militaristic background which is going to manifest itself. In kind of funny ways wants beginning to the seventies and the cocaine starts flowing We'll get into that later in this episode but you know he was I. think much more overt about asserting his control in the band whereas Neil young was much more passive aggressive like he asserted his power by like not showing up and not doing certain things. So like there was this famous instance where Buffalo Springfield, you're going to be the first rock band on the Carson show and. Neil young decided to bail at the last minute and Neil Young also decided to bail at the Monterey pop festival, which as we all know, that's like the debut of Hendrix. It's like where the WHO really broken America. It like Brooks. So many bands Janice Joplin became a star there. You know Neil youngest sort of intentionally doing things to sandbag Buffalo Springfield, which, of course, is directly hurting stills because he's extremely ambitious and we alluded to this in our previous episode I feel like this is the beginning Neil young just terrorizing stephen stills psychologically. It's like Charlie Brown in the football. Even spills as Charlie Brown and Neil. Young as Lucy, right? I. Mean that seems to be a dynamic that plays out repeatedly in their relationship. Oh. Yeah. I mean even women get back today and did the Buffalo Springfield reunion twenty. And Neo bounced on that like seven dates in or something yes. I mean fifty years later he's still he's still looking at the door whenever he's still too long. Yes. I mean as much as we valorize Neil Young for being this uncompromising unpredictable artists and valorize him for that I mean I love Neil, young if you look at it from Stephen Stills. Perspective, I feel like he was the victim of that a lot maybe more than anyone else as we're going to see as this episode unfolds but in the short term as we are in the timeline right here, this essentially short circuits Buffalo Springfield before they can really of realize their potential as a band which sends Stephen Stills Adrift Looking For a new project. Yeah, and he spends a lot of the late sixties like kind of playing with short lived musical collaborations. He did the famous Super Sessions with Al Cooper Bloomfield, which is interesting album but he but he wants to create this Everley brothers style harmony duo with David Crosby who are on the same time booted from the birds and recorded some demos under the name I love the frozen noses a right every early prime on the earlier cocaine references in in sixties pop I gotta say Yeah we and we talked about. That in our crosby episode, how that ended up coming together because I? Think we talked about how like crosby was like a pivot point between Nash instills and like he helped bring them together into this musical unit. But like once these three guys were together. I think it's fair to say that stills immediately assume control of the band musically right? I. Mean That's an exaggeration. Yeah. Musically, and even just professionally too I think that label wise. He was the point of contact for Atlantic who ended up signing them because Atlantic. Erdogan was a huge Buffalo Springfield fan I honestly think that Nash didn't have the credit in the United States to really do the talking the labels and I think a lot of the labels for terrified crosby Columbia let him go and he was kicked from the birds just because he was such a hassle to deal with. So I think that stills was crucial and actually getting like way the. Groundwork for making this ban happen on a functional level he famously went to London and early sixty nine to try to sign with apple records, the Beatles label and he really screwed up. I guess George Harrison. went out to see him and Steven Goes Oh. Yeah George Hey. Can you ask Paul feed producers and George was just like this is right with Georgia's feeling like really belittling he's like No I wanted to produce you damn it but you know what? Forget it, which I mean you know given what happened to? Apple's probably the best thing for CIS n considering that apple was in such a shit show by the end of the sixties in really like they didn't need anyone to produce them bills and in particular like he was very well equipped to take the musical rains in the studio, which is what he ended up doing and like you know there's that famous story think Graham Nash tells it about how when they were making that I record the nickname that they had for still was. Captain many hands because stills was playing everything essentially playing guitar he's playing Oregon Dead Dallas Taylor in the studio drummer. So was handling the rhythm parts but otherwise, stills was really taking the bull by the horns to create this record and it. It's interesting to look at how the album of all because I know Graham Nash talked about how when they first got together. He envisioned their first record being just a pure acoustic record because you know when they would play their early shows that really even shows just playing for people around Laurel Canyon showing off their harmonies. It really was just about these. Lovely Acoustic. Ballads and their harmonies but stills wanted there to be an electric element to the record as well as he wanted there to be some like rock and roll credibility. So even while still was writing these beautiful folk becks sweet Judy Blue Eyes for instance is still sung and that kicks off the record and really sets the tone for what that records can be, and then you have you don't have to cry helplessly hoping again, all still songs if you like in terms of like being in a ranger like he's the one who like gave that record, it's sort of epic sound like wooden ships, for instance. Or longtime gone. He's the one that you know is R-. Really like laying on the overdubbed and in making it more than just this sort of twee folk record it is like a big time rock record. Oh Yeah. I always thought he was basically the musical director of that time I mean I i. think the the Cross handled a lot of the vocal harmonies but like you said, he was the one who would who would spend long long long days in the studio sometimes multiple taste a row which would become a problem later on but he was really he would say in interviews you know I don't. mind. If I said that the first album was was mostly my baby exactly I. think he really envisioned that again that acoustic electric hybrid because you know this was also the era of late Jimi Hendrix and cream a lot of these like really over amped blues, rock bands and Crosby stills Nash Wasn't antidote to that I mean they did kick off that singer Songwriter Movement that really ended up playing a big part especially La Music of the Nineteen Seventies. So along with having that, you know sort of rock credibility that stills brought to the table. Again I feel like his songs more than the other guys on that. Record are just such great examples of like early L. LA singer songwriter folk music helplessly hoping for instance, which is still one of my favorite crosby stills Nash and young songs. Maybe my favorite it's like such a beautiful song. It really takes you back to that time in a really evocative way. Love how Jimi Hendrix described their sound as western Sky Music I don't know what it is, but it fits perfectly I know. I. Agree that it's absolutely true. But the thing about being captain many hands as that like you can't be captain many hands on stage you know they needed someone else who could help fill out Their sound when they played live and that's how you end up getting Neil young back in the band or Stephenville's like, okay. This guy terrorized me. But maybe this time we'll be different right I'd be like, why would he bring him back I fold I he wanted Steve Winwood and I guess Steve was like no, I'm busy doing blind faith right now I got better things to do and so on Erdogan who you know being the Buffalo Springfield fan boy kept pushing for Neil and he eventually was the one who convinced stills to give it another shot and then everybody else in the band too I think was Even. Like you sure you want to do. This is still now it'll be different this time. It's cool. It's cool. It will. It will be great. So they got neil the sign on on the condition that he would be made full partner name in the marquee because I think in the beginning they just kind of wanted to have him be like Dallas Taylor and and Greg Reeves just be another guy on the stage and stills would say you know don't everybody will know it's everybody will know you're there but but eventually I think neo held out for like a month or so before they he finally Got His way and got got his name on the marquee and you know that can't have sat well with stills, I mean who? Just wanted basically a glorified side man the free him up to like take the spotlight to take some cool guitar lead. Now, he's got his personal nemesis next who also has equal say in the ban, I cannot imagine how that must have went down with him but have you ever seen the the the performance of down by the river on that TV special in seventy one of the few CSM y TV shows that they ever did seeing new in Steven just. Incredible electrifying. So it's like one of my favorite versions of that song. You really see like what they could do on stage trading off guitar licks the only like issue I have with it is that as only five minutes yeah. I wished that went on for twenty minutes where those dudes could just you know solo off each other for the longest time and I think like when you watch that clip, you can really see like, okay, it makes sense to bring. Neil young into the span because it is electrifying seen these guys play together but you know in a broader sense I don't know how you feel about this but you know if. You WanNa Look at CNN and CNN wise being like two different groups i. kind of prefer Sia said even though Neil Young I think is obviously the most talented out of any of these guys I just feel like CSI like makes more sense as a group like those three guys together I think complimented each other really well, and they kind of complete each other in a way that feels like more like a real band whereas like Neil Young, you neil young to your band like he's not going to just blend in like he's too strong of personality and as. We laugh when Stephen Stills Calls Neil young the snake like in the garden of Eden. But I I kinda think he's right I. Mean it is I mean it's not necessarily Neil. Young's fault like Neil Young Neil Young he's going to do what he does, but it's like I Stephen Stills had this line once where he said that Neil Young never played team sports know he's like he doesn't understand like how you still. Who Lives in football jerseys by the way. If you look at Neil Young for instance, like you know. He tends to surround himself with like people that aren't as good as like if you look at crazy horse, for instance, like crazy is an amazing band, I love how primitive they are. Is You know what gives so many Neil young records they're like unmistakable vibe but like there's something about that band that enhances Neil Young's guitar playing because it's guitar playing sons so much more epic because the rest the band is like pretty rudimentary. You know and I feel like that's like another example of how Neil young can be passive aggressive. Be, more effective than Stephen Stills as being aggressive aggressive you know the other thing here too that kind of blows me away is that like new Yang and we'll get into this in our Neil Young episode he would never refrain from taking shots at like the other three guys in the spanned but isn't it fair to say that he wouldn't have been nearly as famous if he hadn't joined crosby stills and Nash because they are already like the biggest band in America and. He wasn't really that popular yet though his name recognition zero. Yeah. Like he used them as a stepping-stone essentially and he ended up surpassing them like by the time of harvest the number one single with heart gold. But I just wonder like that must've just compounded the trauma that stills felt because he was seen that happen in real time. Yeah. I mean steals really he shot himself in the foot by having neil come in because suddenly he just completely undercut the. Brand that he had bill and it was built into the biggest band in the country. Now by adding Neil, the trio will never feel complete again, you know whenever three, the original three who are wildly successful come together. There's always some people say, well, where's Neil Neil and it's just forever that brand is gone that brands GonNa, feel like second tier and still says this again and again and interviews he would say that CNN y felt like a fulltime job whereas cs was something you could just slip into like an old. And I think that really reinforced the idea that like crosby stills Nash and Young Young, they're made it this vibrant changing difficult impetuous thing whereas see us were kind of. kind of bland kind of. And Yeah I think that he inadvertently devalued the thing that he worked so hard to make for that I see esn record by by welcoming Nieto in our hand we'll be right back with more rivals. Hi, there I'm Jordan from rivals are recent three part episode on Crosby Stills Nash Young helped me rediscover the many sounds and styles of Neil young and you know the best way to listen using a pair of premium wireless ear buds especially if you can get them unless they're half the price of the other guys that's why I recommend wireless ear buds from RECON I was blown away by the comfort and clarity of my cons. If you're gonNA hear all the grit of Neal's six hours solo on down by the river ray cons. Or the way to go break on's newest model, the everyday e- twenty-five-year year Bud's best ones yet with six hours of playtime see must bluetooth pairing more base a more compact design and the noise isolating fit plus Rakhine ear buds are stylish discreet with no dangling wires. Their stems the company was co founded by Ray J and celebrities like Snoop Dogg Melissa Ethridge and brandy, or obsessed with their products. 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Just, text the word voter, two, four, zero, six, four, nine, or visit headcount dot org for more INFO and headcount can walkie right through registration. If you're already registered, they would love it if you would take their me plus three pledge. So make a plan to vote and then get three friends to join you, and if those friends are registered headcount dot org with them and make sure that they do get registered, it takes two minutes to do this, but it has a huge impact. Don't wait register today and vote on November third. And can really start to see that really come to the fore when they start making deja Vu, which is the first record that they make with Neil Young. And we talked about this a little bit in our previous episode about how Stills was pretty hard on crosby during this time you know he was making them do all these takes of the title track. He was belittling or cut my hair maybe with justification you know we'll see. But know he was again trying to be the taskmaster that he was on the first record and I think also. Getting to cocaine at this time. So like this is the period again where he's just like in the studio for like five days straight not leaving you know just wanting to get everything right and you know he had the problems with crosby that we already talked about but then he also like really kind of ran afoul of national young to at this time. Didn't he? Yes. It was a time for kind of everybody in the band and and stills relationship with Judy Collins was ending and and. He started coming up with these really sort of sad down songs like ivory tower, which later became sugar babe and this annoyed Graham really wanted to leave listeners with like a positive message even say like you know what's the point of bringing other people down with your sadness? So he didn't really like the attitude of a lot of still songs at that time. He also resented stills kind of meddling with his songs even when they made him better I guess they got a huge fight over. Our House, the stills wanted to add like an organ part instead of having that kind of slightly tweet Harpsichord thing and I guess teach your children was going to be I. Think Graham, describe it as a Henry, the eighth style Song and then it was still who made it like the it like sort of country countrified. It's Jerry Garcia right on on pedal steel. Yeah. Like one of the great pedal steel parts of all time. Yeah I mean I that was I mean I still still. Had incredible is a music director, but I think assuming his way of going about it wasn't as sensitive as it could have been in the studio, and then of course, the biggest issues are with Neil young and I think the crux of their conflict was that you know Stephen Stills again is this perfectionist in the studio you know he's doing blow all day long he wants everything to sound immaculate and then Neil Young of course is not that guy at all he is like all about rawness. Doing things live you're keeping things imperfect because he feels like that's where the personality comes in and you can hear that on his solo records especially as we get deeper into the seventies and he makes like the ditch trilogy and all those wonderful albums but yeah. The end up I think fighting over the Song Woodstock which I think is like a live in the studio take it's like the most rocking songs on that record although I still went back and. Re recorded a couple versus that he thought like vocally, it wasn't as strong as it could have been like Neil didn't like that and he was also an issue to liquid neil young like basically like treat his songs on the record as like separate from the rest of the album. You think it sounds like like helpless for instance, wasn't taking the tapes. Of that song and like sort of screen them away to like work on them with like David Briggs 'cause he wanted to sound like a neil young record than like a CNN record right? Would you mean for somebody a control freak like still? No, this is a ban like you don't get to do that. You don't get the have your thing be completely separate, engineered and produced by your own specific person works just for you. I mean. That's kind of an outrageous thing to do on the part. Yeah, and again I think still is probably felt like dude, I asked you to join this hugely successful band like we're already popular like before you joined I know you're not gonNA listen to me. Yeah. Exactly. Like why don't you listen to me and let me be charged whereas Neil young again, you know. He wins by retreating. He wins by like not being in the studio much time during the making this record and by taking the songs that he does record to somebody else you know and. The best strategy that you could have like yield Stephen Stills wants to think of himself as like this military mastermind like Neil young was the mastermind like he knew if you're dealing with like a like a overbearing force you retreat and you let the overbearing force like destroyed self and that's what happened with Stephen Stills, essentially especially as we get into that like one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy tour that they did which you know ended up like really wearing down the band and I feel like that was the tour along with the making. Of deja Vu like we're we're still was like really starting to alienate everyone else in the band by like again, just being this sort of aggressive bullying overbearing guy that also overplayed like a ton on stage. You know because he wanted the spotlight on him, oh? Yeah. I mean there's famous story or they go to England in January nineteen seventy to play this big prestigious show at the Royal Albert. Hall and still as you said, is like the very picture of southern bravado had a great phrase that was my mediocres better than your best. But he's he's nervous and he gets there and he's playing and he sees like Paul McCartney in the front row and the midway through Paul's gone and he didn't realize the Paul just went up to the cheap seats till I be part of the crowd but he thinks the Paul McCartney walked out and he's feeling really insecure and the British press do what? They. Do and just sort of give middling reviews of the of the concert and it gives an interview right after the show where he says, you know I started that was a really beautiful idea this band full of enthusiasm and ideals. But now a lot of that feeling is gone between us and that really sort of sets the stage for the tour. Later that year in the in the summer of seventy where it starts to fall apart he fires basis Greg, reeves on the eve of their the US tour for a number of reasons one he thinks that just greg is it's too inconsistent and how he plays and for somebody like Stephen who really wants things to be a certain way that's not. Going to fly with him and also I guess Greg Neil were getting really tight greg was on the Goldrush and I'm sure that made them uncomfortable. Made him think that maybe Gregg wasn't an ally with him anymore. So He Fires Greg they have this awful opening night on their tour where stills thrown off a horse, and so he hobbles onto the stage on crutches. And he's great story by the way I love that story. I'm sorry. Sorry Paul a Horse but like. Where are you writing a horse stills especially again, like you're doing cocaine all day long and now you're gonNA. Top out a horse just doesn't seem like a good idea. He's onstage injured on stage. He's playing over everybody. He's he's back in Neil's he's helpless and he's playing piano plan all over him and Neil's like shoot them dirty looks like dude back off. This is this is my song quiet song. He's just really inconsistent. All Night Cross calls him to play his solo set in the middle of the show and he's like nowhere to be found and eventually in the middle of everybody I. Love You I Guess Neil is is just so fed up with all this the erotic playing that Neil to Texas guitar off sets down on the stage and storms off and they have this huge. Fight backstage, civil war crosby, and Nash and Neil or accusing stills of treating them like servants and still saying, no, I'm trying to be I'm trying to do what I do I'm. Kind of the music director member worked really well on her first album and and they're just not having it. I think Neil young like he pulled crosby. Said you guys should to on your own without stills like I get which in a way you could say like, oh, that's probably pretty good advice. 'cause stills was getting out of control, but then you look at it from still point of view and it's like this guy look at this dude, he's trying to like undermine thirties. He's telling these guys go away. Yeah. You know the I think like later in that tour like when they were in Chicago they actually called off the show because like the rest of the band was essentially like staging a mutiny against Stephen. Stills and then there was this thing I guess it was like revenge for the Greg Reeves firing because like Neil. Young then like insisted that they fire Dallas, Taylor who had been in the band really since the beginning and I know Dallas Taylor at some point like had some issues that his name wasn't in the band title because he was the only guy, it wasn't like crosby stills, Nash, and Taylor although you know obviously, he wasn't famous. So he wasn't going to be in the in the band name but stills in Taylor were pretty tight. But like there was no way that the rest of the ban wasn't gonNA listen to Neil Young. So then they fired Dallas Taylor and I think at that point I think this thing that we were talking about with stills where he could probably see. In real time that Neil young was reaching a certain level of prominence and that it was like dangerously like. He was being usurped in his own band essentially Neil young was doing it after I'm sure instills mind again that he thought like, Oh, I'm nice enough to invite you into this great opportunity and you repay me by like traumatizing again essentially, and that's what's really happening to him, and Neil would come out like thirty minutes through the set, right like like an we're basically you the neil young opening act really bring Neil. Out Midway through the show as sort of like the main event or at least that's how it came across, which must have been absolutely maddening stills and again like man, you got to just sit back and marvel at Neil young and we'll get into this more than this and our next episode. I don't want to spend too much time on this. But like this is like a Maquiavelian thing here like where he could. Assume so much control by like again, appearing to be passive. And it's such a telling contrast was still because like when he was witnessing this going on still doesn't take notes in like say like well, maybe I should be more like Neil I should lay back and maybe they'll come to me he used becomes more aggressive and like he like is asserting himself even more like this around the time and I think this actually ended up on four way street where he started playing the piano version of for what it's worth. Where like he? Like starts? Banging away the piano and he's like ranting at the crowd where he's like, it becomes like this Gospel number almost, and it's like really self-indulgent. It just goes on forever and like I know those an instance on on one of these shows like we're literally wouldn't leave the stage like during his acoustic portion of the show like he played four and twenty and in Black Queen, and it just drove the rest of the band up the wall and. I think it really ended up as much as anything derailing that tour well, and then of course, not only their professional differences as the get your personal differences to Stephen. At this point, he was dating Rita Coolidge, the backing singer veteran of the really tumultuous Delaney and Bonnie Tour and mad dog an English. Mentor really loved dysfunctional. Rock. And she hit the Jackpot with this she met stills when she was invited to sing on the session for Love the one you're with, and she really liked Graham Nash she kinda saw them across the room and they started talking to everyone likes Graham Nash, the Ladies Man Yeah. He's like the ladies man yeah, and national. Next time we're in. La To play show Gimme a call. You'll be my day albeit Stevens House. Here's this number she calls Stevens House Stephen. Intercepts the call, Oh yeah. Graham. Graham changed his mind but but I'm free so she and still start having a thing and then Nash ends up finding out about it and so there's this love triangle between the mall with Rita as the as sort of the main point and I, guess midway through the tour sort of the end of the tour Nash ever the the English Gentleman decides to tell Stephen in person that he just lost his girlfriend. With him now and stills. This comes out swinging, which is not good for their already tenuous relationship. You know and I feel like this ended up being an issue with these guys for like years I. Think it wasn't until like maybe the late seventies that like stills and Nash buried the hatchet. About this like this was really stuck instills his crawl for a long long time and I mean, I think it was maybe the principle of it more than like I mean I think he was into Rita coolidge but that idea that like hey, like you know bros before hoes like that old saying right as they say not that I condone that reference to a woman but I'm just saying like that is what a lot of men feel that you should put your friend before a woman and Yeah it just ended up being a huge issue with them for a long time. He was like really into where I think he like end up taking an overdose of downers or something at some CD hotel. But before he did, he wrote like a message on his bathroom mirror to reader or something he was really broken up about her I. Guess the The Pink Giraffe on the covers first solo albums supposed to be some reference to her some message tour because it was a gift from her he. was really messed up about Rita for a long time. Oh Man. Okay. So then they end up putting out four way street the live record, but that's kind of like the capstone of this early era of C.. N. N. Y. Like at that point, they really are scattered to the winds for a few years and they end up all making their own records and we'll, of course, we all know about Neil young he ends up being the most successful during this period really culminating with harvest and heart. Gold which ends up being a number one song and I don't think Stephen Stills has ever had a number actually no, that's wrong. Love. The one you're with I think was a number one hit. So he had a number one hit and heart a gold is a number one hit and you I have made this case before I really feel that like early on stills really did keep pace with Neil young I think until about like nineteen, seventy two or so they really were on equal footing like. For instance I, like the Manassas, record from seventy two is like such a pinnacle for stills like and I really would put that up with the Neil young records of that time I. Mean it's a double record. There's so many different song styles on their. You know he's writing folk. There's like blues songs. There's like hard rocking songs. It's all over the map and it really is a testament to like what stills was capable of like when he had his wits about him and you know, I'm such a stills fan boy that I'll even. Like stump for the solo records that came after that like stills in illegal stills and even like thoroughfare gap Whoa I know that's like the disco record that he made What's that song is a song like with booty in the title I. CAn't remember like go get your booty or something like that. It's like not very good. Also, he's on a horse on the cover of that Wrexham, didn't learned his lesson from before when he got thrown off but you know there was something that happened I think after seventy two or so where. He lost his way and I think you had to do with the drug and alcohol abuse that he was going through. You was also again in his own as much. Talked about crosby in our last episode alienating people you. Did that a lot too just because again I think he had this very force for energy about him that I think was routed a lot in creativity I think he just had like a lot of music he wanted to get out of himself, but he just wasn't very diplomatic about going you know to people and getting them to join him in the way that I think Neil young was able to do. You just drove people away because he was so intense. Yeah. There's the great quote that stills had about Manassas. He said my new band is a dictator ship and I liked that my experience with democracy in Rockin roles at it's a total failure and feel that. encapsulates his entire working methods of the early seventies right there, and the fact that he would say that allowed to I think is the problem because I think honestly I think Neil Young feels the same way I think on his albums. He doesn't look at himself as anything other than a dictator I think he's very controlling of like what he does his own music. It's just that like he has a more easy going way about him where it's like, you wanNA listen to Neil young like you want him because it's like. Well, we're GonNa, do something great. If we follow this guy, it doesn't feel as hectoring in the way that is was stills where I think stills would. Let. You know that yeah I'm the one in control in your following me and I'm making you great. If I weren't here, you wouldn't be great and that just alienates people. It bothers them you know and it just drives him away and. When. You add a bunch of cocaine on top of that. You know like when you're just doing drugs all day long because you don't WanNa leave the studio I it just it just makes things worse and compounds at all, and it really is sad to me that he couldn't hold manassas together I. think that was a great band incredible ban but yeah, that Dan fell apart and then he ended up trying to revive. With the Human Highway Record, which we talked about a bit last week. Yeah. There's been I think nationalist biography interviews at some point in the past he said that they wanted everybody to get to Maui and and the sort of underlying secret mission of all that was trying to get steals clean because I think at that point, they recognize that stills cocaine Jim. Beam and cheeseburger diet was not not good for him or anyone around him and I think it was theorized in the Jimmy McDonough book shaky that Neil Young I. think it was from that. But yeah, there was a good couple of weeks down there where they were working on songs I think still had see the changes and Nash had and so it goes and Crosby, at home, the has some great songs to work with. But yeah. The same old problems cropped up fairly quickly and it's been theorized that there was some kind of like cocaine deal that that went arrive at his somebody off down there. It's. It's it's up for debate about what exactly happened but it's safe to say crosby stills, Nash and young just being crosby. Stills Nash and young again, they splintered for about another year and then they came back together in the spring seventy four for the doom tore love talking about the doom tour so much so much to get into it that we we did a lot in me across be episode. This is where they basically realized that their commercial fortunes individually hadn't had been faring. Very well in the marketplace recently, and they could just mint money by doing a reunion tour of the biggest tour that I think it'd really been mounted at that stage I mean was just one of the first arena tours. Yeah. It was it was a massive tour and yeah, there was all this decadence going on backstage and I think you can hear the effects. Of that decadence most audibly on Stephen Stills like when you listen to was that live record that came out there live box set a few years ago CSM Y seventy four which I love I love that record. But like when you listen to still sing like love the one you're with his voice sounds like pretty shot and this is like nineteen, seventy, four and you. Know. I. Think part of that came from them playing these huge. You know stadiums at a time like where you know pe- as were still in the process of being you know sort of fitted for venues that side I think that they often had technical issues on that tour but even you know factoring that in I, feel like you can already hear steals. As talent being diminished bit by how much he was drinking and drugging at that time. There's like all these great backstage stories from that to or like my favorite Stephen Stills is insane story is about him and Bob Dylan on that tour. If you've heard the story, no I don't think I have. Okay. So apparently Bob Dylan, he shows up during the doom tour and. He was hanging up backstage and he's already written all the songs for blood on the tracks like he hasn't recorded the album yet but there's all these stories about Bob Dylan at this time sort of cornering people in in playing them the blood on the tracks songs like he wanted to show these songs off I think because he knew that these songs were freaking amazing anyone to blow people. Away. So he corner Stephen Stills in a hotel room and he's only played for stills by the way like, Graham, Nash apparently was like outside the door trying to listen and he was like insanely jealous that Bob Dylan only focused on Stephen Stills, and in a way I think that speaks to Stephen Stills status even at this time that like people really respected what he had done was with. CSM, wine, and Buffalo Springfield. So anyway, Bob Dylan plays him all the blood on the tracks, songs and Stephen. Stills reaction is basically like. Really. Dude I don't really feel it and I think he even said later somebody else at like you know Bob Dylan's not real songwriter and all this shop. So, anyway, he's very underwhelmed hearing these songs. Then Bob Dylan he looks at Stephen Stills and he's like okay, Stephen? Want you play me something you just wrote l.. Stills kind of froze up then and like you know the story fizzled out and I just love that idea that like Bob Dylan's playing tangled up in blue instills is like. Don't like enough orem exactly. It just such a great portrait of like how insane he was at this time and like how his ego and really gone was had I. Think at this point is this the same era where he was insisting that during the time that he was in Buffalo Springfield he was a secret. Agent and went on like secret undercover missions in Vietnam or something. I made like some really outrageous claims around this time to yeah. There's all these stories about him. Yeah. Like claiming that he went to Vietnam. In this era and that he was also I think wearing military gear like backstage and he'd. Have people go through like different like military paces. You know I don't know if they're like literally marching backstage but like he was I dunno, it was like he was Colonel Kurtz in A. that. So yeah, it's like ego and again cocaine and like, yeah, you're on this huge tour everyone is catering to you and you know like more than anyone else in this band and I think you know all these guys again as we've said are like. The axe it seems like in this era and in particular like the fame and the drugs were really going to Stephen Stills as head. Yeah. When David Crosby isn't the most insane person a group of people that group of people the dysfunction level is so far off the charts that it defies description i. think that's where we're at now is still in this era and the fact that they tried to get back together after this tour to finish human highway blows my mind I mean they just they knew how financially successful that would have been but Jesus Christ yeah, they tried to do. That again, and it clearly didn't work and not only that but like Stephen Stills again, it's like with Neil young like he couldn't quit Neil young and like so they ended up having this album where they're gonNA make a record together at the first stills young record and it ends up being called long. May you run and we talked about this in our previous episode about how for a time crosby and Nash were involved in their vocals ended up getting wiped out which really pissed them off so much that they refused to work with stills for like three months and then they. Reunited again. But in terms of stills in young, they made this record and the title track by Neil Young is great I mean that's a classic song I feel like allows the other Neil young songs on that record like pretty lightweight and like not that great, and it's amazing to think that this was the same era that he was making albums like on the beach and Zuma, and you know tonight's the night where he had like a lot of great songs laying around. But like you know for the stills young man, he's like Oh let's play fountain blue. You know this is the best I can come up with for this. Bad. So it seems like maybe his commitment wasn't totally into the group and then they ended up going on tour together and like young just rip stills East. He rips his heart out again there on two separate tour buses and after showing South Carolina Neal's tour bus takes literal fork in the road and goes in different direction than stills still gets to the next destination and arrives at the hotel finds telegram. It says, dear, Stephen, funny things that start spontaneously and that way eat appears Neil. God eat a peach man eat a peach once you say fuck you. That's like such a fuck you move from Neil Young I mean again. I'm so torn here because I love Neil Young I love Stephen Stills the Neil Young Fatemi is like that's pretty awesome that he just decided. He didn't want to be on this tour. He's following his music and he bailed the Stephen Stills fan in me is like what a Dick how could Neil Young Stephen Stills? At Lake Stephen Sills was shattered by that. He kept really pathetic quote. He was like ask for comment after Neil left and he said I have no future. Official comment on the matter which I mean it's. I think Neil went out on tour like the official reason that he left that he was on the on vocal rest it was like doctor's orders and he couldn't sing. But then he went out on tour like weeks after like on his own. So that's the rub salt and still wounds. So we talked to the last episode of course. But what happens next stills? He's been abandoned by Neil Young. So then he ends up reuniting with crosby and Nash who were pissed off about the long. May you run incident and they made CNN in nineteen seventy seven which was a pretty big hit record I think it's up selling four million copies. Really showed, you know after all this time, you know even though these guys weren't as successful on their own anymore the brand of S. was still really strong and would like move records if these guys got back together and I mean, we talked about this before crosby episode about the whole story around daylight. Again, which I think is a fascinating sort of example of like how the brand really took over I think at that point because like these guys I mean really none of these guys were were in great shape but the record company felt like, well, your last record sold four million copies. Of course you know the record you put out in the early seventies were also huge hit. So like let's have another CNN record but like the whole story rain-delayed again, it's kind of depressing. Like how that record came together remember crosby was just he was in no shape to record so. Stills Nash just out of pure necessity got together and they financed the recording themselves and the sort of film for where we're crosby's vocals would have been. They had people art Garfunkel and Timothy B. Schmidt sing those parts and executives of Atlantic were like basically no. Thanks call. We can get crossed back into the picture because. Nobody wants a stills, NASH ALBUM THEY WANNA see US N. record so we can just like me money. So they got crosby back in who I mean. It was like weekend at Bernie's style they really just. Problem. Up I. Mean he had Delta with an amazing song but that was really his only serious contribution to the album which did great. got like number eight and went platinum but it was it was mostly through. Work I. Think He'd Southern Cross on that one which Oh. Yeah. Mike the First TV. Era. Hit Right. Yeah. It's amazing that they were able to pull that song in particular out of like their asses essentially I think I think basically what did is he took that song I think it was recorded by these two other guys who had the music the lyrics are really bad. So then instills just took their music and he wrote new lyrics for it and it sounds like a classic CSM Send Song like you hear that song now and it's like Oh wow, that came. Out. In the early eighties like it doesn't really necessarily sound like the other music even on that record I mean has like a really kind of classic folk rock sound to it and like I feel like that's the song from the eighties. I guess along with wasted on the way the Graham Nash some album that like people would point to and being like Oh. Yeah. That's a classic song like if they played that live people will sing along with it as in rough shape. Was At this time again, if you like daylight again, it's an example of like how he could really Kinda Marshal, the resources I guess along with Nash and at least make it look like this the facade of a band you know it's like it's a convincing enough back similarly of crosby stills Nash. Again it'd be could still. So millions of records by by putting out album like that. It was really I, think southern cross is probably the last classic crosby stills Nash Crosby Stills Nash and Young Song wouldn't you take? A bunch without question pretty dismal. Yeah. Starting with American Dream Yeah we talked about this a little bit last week. Yeah. If American dream you have lived up with the atrocious hotdog cover. After the storm which again, like you know I revisited after the storm for this series I don't WanNa go overboard and over praised that album but I probably just had low expectations but I actually think that's like a pretty decent record and I think the stills contributions like a particular like are pretty good. But yeah, it's like the we're near what you would consider to be like prime era for this man it's amazing crosby stills Nash Album only hit ninety eight on billboard I just think that's that's amazing. That's remarkable that it was like that was the. Degree to which no one cared and again like I think it's tough was still feels is that he was such a great guitar player and actually do like his voice a lot. I don't think it's as conventionally pretty as Crosby Nash but he could be like a really kind of forceful singer on records and and like when listen to live bootlegs and I feel like you can really hear him the deterioration more than the other guys like I think crosby Nash like they still sing like really well, like meal of course still sounds great but like stills like. I duNNo. Like you really hear the ravages of time click as you get into these later records. Yeah. I I feel horrible saying this but I look at stills I hear his voice and some reason that but I I think of like Brian Wilson I think like this figure that had such a singular instrument that's now not there and he doesn't seem to be trying really in some of the latter decades of of his career. Which is hard. It's hard and like in a way though it's been like humbling for him like you see interviews with him now and he's much more magnanimous i. think then he ever would have been in the seventies. You know there was that there was that whole story and we'll get into this I think in our next episode about Neil Young but you know there was like another Buffalo Springfield reunion in the early two, thousand ten that like Neil young ended up short-circuiting basically but. Before that happened like I think rolling stone was talking to stills about working with Neil and again like we've talked a lot in this episode about like prime like Neil Young Stephen Stills. Week we're locking heads because they were both like Alpha dogs you know they both wanted to have control of whatever musical situation that they were in at that point he was basically just saying like, Hey, like it's a privilege to work with Neil Young like, I'm lucky to do anything with this guy and You know in a way you could say like Oh isn't that great that he has that perspective but I don't know I I missed the Alpha Dog Stephen Stills like I missed the full Jersey Coke snowboarding. Yeah Guy Falling off a horses and then he gets back on the horse. To make a rock record like that guy I. Love that guy from the seventies again like I love all the Stephen Stills records from the seventies even the ones that aren't that great because I feel like he really had a strong personality that even shown through when he was experimenting with like different genres and different instrumentation that like didn't totally suit. Him You know, but he's still had this visionary quality to him where it's like I can play Latin music. I can play country music. I can play disco music because I am Stephen stills naked, make it work, and he just feels like kind of broken. Now looking at his first solo record that had hendrix Clapton in a beetle on it I mean. Competence the be like, yeah I'm fine. I, can go ahead with these guys I cannot imagine I don't know and may you know maybe it really was neil even on that tour I almost feel like a lot of ways never fully recovered from that if I actually like. His Solo work and stuff it really did seem to break them in a way. Man Kneels Machiavelli man, he broke Stephen Stills appear passive aggression. UNBELIEVABLE WE'RE GONNA take a quick break. He had a word from our sponsor for we get to more rivals. Okay. So this is the part of the episode where we look at the pro side of each part of the rivalry. Let's talk about the. Case for Stephen Stills I like I said at the top of the episode I love. Stephen Stills. I think out of like the original three members of ESPN Stephen Stills is my favorite. I, think he's the best musician. Best Songwriter. I think he's got a lot of charisma I like how crazy he became in the seventies I. It's something I feel like it's. Justified for a while until it wasn't and he unfortunately I think self-destructed and became again like this tragic cautionary tale I think in a lot of ways. But again, I think if you love that I record which I do and if you. Just I think appreciate this band yet to give it up the Stephen Stills because he really was I think the musical driving force. In the early stages of CNN. Just total architect of their sound and I credit him not even with the sound. But also like I said earlier like I think that he had the industry cloud at that period, get the band off the ground in the early days too and I just what he brought to the group I, always think of him as the anchor. Musically. He would make the track beds that they could then Blair their harmonies over and everything his voice was always at the bottom that like really soulful grit well. Crosby and Nash. We're kind of fluttering over above. Yeah. I feel like that. He was probably the most indispensable of of all four and Neil young not one to dole out praise very easily. still refers stills as a as a genius and you know who might say otherwise I think that was. His body was on the ground with a knife in his back. Still was dead and then Neil Young said, okay. Well, I've just murdered you but you are a genius so I'll I'll I'll tip my cowboy hat to you to go to the pro c. n. y. side or the Anti Stephen still side you know I think it's fair to say that he could be a bully and he could be very abrasive and even though I'm inclined to think that. He was driven just to make great records at that time and he had like, you know piss and vinegar in his blood drove him to be artistically great. You know he he just didn't have a delicate touch with dad and he could really alienate people but just letting them know like precisely how great he was at how much they needed him to be great and you know again looking. At him in contrast with Neil, young, I, feel like Neil could assert his power in a much more laid-back kind of way which I think ultimately served him well, I think to with Stephen Stills. You know he didn't have that inner compass that Neil Young had. Ultimately you know I think Neil Young was right to say that like you know maybe just working quickly and not laboring over things. And making them perfect, you know you can end up making more records like that, and your records will have more life and people will listen to them forty years later and find you things in them That's obviously benefited Neil Young. Great. You know I think he had a sense of taste maybe that Stephen Stills didn't have ultimately which I think really hurt him along with just his self destructive. Impulses from musical standpoint. Too I. Think the other is, Kinda. Smoothed out. Some steals rough edges I feel like he is so based in the blues in sort of like southern rock type of sound that comes through on the solo albums I think that people like Crosby's California Spacey Jazz tendencies and then grams bridge. Invasion pop sensibilities helped really create something new the I feel it could have been to one note with just Stephen there when you say think so I mean I mean. That kind of goes into our final section here where we talk about all these guys bring together. Yes. Certainly I think that Levin would still did although I'm more inclined to think that stills brought to the table was even more valuable in a way because I think without him crosby stills and Nash would have been like a very easy listening banned from the beginning and then would stills. Braun. was that Grit you know the the blues in his voice, he had the vision to. Take these beautiful folksongs into like explode them out into these beautiful soundscape while at the same time also producing just these wonderful stripped down songs like helplessly hoping he could go both ways. So yeah, he was the visionary the band and I think he also brought them grit that they really needed. Yeah. I think that still sort of provided sort of the funk to right if I feel that way when it was to crosby and in Solo stuff too I it's a great lake I call it like a Hammock rock album like I. I can put it on a summer day when I'm like sitting outside or something and me out. But something but stills definitely something heavier more grit that like I said earlier, just kind of anchored it and made feel a little more earthy and that's I. Think again, it's such an incredible. That whole band is such an incredible example just like the banding more than just some of its parts. Well, you know Jordan have had so much fun digging into C. N. Y. That I've been helplessly hoping that we could just talk about this forever. But unfortunately, we're going to reach part three the final part of our series next week where we talk about Neil young murdering Stephen Stills, getting deeper into that as well as you know, all the other conflicts that have existed between Neil, and. Over the years. So until then thank you again for listening to another episode of rivals will look forward to talking about more beefs in feuds and long simmering resentments next week. Rivals is a production of iheartradio executive producers are Sean Tone, nor Brown supervising producers are Taylor, chicane and trysted. McNeil the producers Joel Hats that I'm Jordan run talk I'm Steven Hyden you like what you heard please subscribe and Lisa Review for more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or ever you near favorite shows.

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The Importance of the Print

This Week in Photo

54:41 min | 5 months ago

The Importance of the Print

"Able to little something different for you today here with an old friend of mine as in I've known him for a long time not that he's. Data's. Data start is here. He's from Epson a little company that that makes printers that you may have heard about printers and a bunch of other things but we're GONNA WANNA. Have Dental on to talk about printing. From the standpoint of the importance of it in how people that that may be afraid of printing today or somehow said, you know I don't print stuff on facebook and instagram whatever what's a print? I WanNa talk about that and get to the crux of why people should be printing especially if you're an advanced amateur beginner or or or professional photographer. So denno Steinar welcome to the program and how you doing great veer. It's great to see you and you're a game of thrones. Very symmetrical background their employees. Against Green. Screen. Good Yeah. Thank you. This is this is a brand new setup. People have been watching this show no, that normally that's not my background. Normally, my desk is actually slipped in the room is the background. So some different you guys got mix it up every now and So let's let's talk about this. So you're at you're at Epson let's talk about like the your role at Epson what what does Danone do at the company? Well, title is marketing manager my primary responsibilities are. Working with the creative professional markets in the marketing things that go along with that primarily photography certainly work with anybody that's creative professional. A fine artist and illustrator in other markets. I also do video production and amd because of some of the crazy background ahead in the early days of printing I've been I sometimes a pulled into some color science things related to projection because of all the pain we went through early in printing. I consider these long boring international color science meetings and understand what's going on. The. Yeah Yeah Yeah I definitely want to talk about that because. You know we were. We were talking before I clicked the record button about. Just sort of back in the day you know we won't have to go back. You have to put a time stamp on it, but back in the day. The printing experience was, hey, I got this brand new printer gamma. I got my box of paper and you run your first print through it and he came out. Magenta. Okay let me what did I do wrong. Okay and now gotta understand all this stuff. You run another printer it comes out yellow. This was you know. So let's talk about that a little bit. or excellence. Let's let's do that a little bit deeper I want to talk about the history. Of Printing itself you. Touched on that a little bit. Back in the day was enlargers. Remember those you know we had enlargers. Black and white, and then we went to color enlargers, which was a little more involved than a little less tolerance of temperature and all that, and then today you know it's it's file print. So talk to talk about sort of the evolution of where things were in the digital printing world and where they are today. How much time do we have? We have have about three days. So make a quick. To say you know. If you were to take the entire history of photography from nips if I'm pronouncing that correctly, when took that eight hour exposure the French street scene. and to kind of the the beginning of the digital age, you know that is like ninety five percent of photography and digital that term is just this. Let little. Little Flash. Little. Wink of the eye and just in perspective how quickly and things evolved. But as I've been with Epson and a little over twenty years, I was recruited from the Eastman Kodak Company. And this was when Kodak was Kodak. Amazing Kodak Moment. But it was so. Before, that I was a commercial photographer, I used to use a biton view cameras. Shooting. Food for magazines. Cargo, but if you look just a quick thing in the past. The. Printing was always about black and white printing. And it was not an uncommon thing that post World War Two for hobbyists to have dark rooms and advanced amateurs do dark rooms, and if you define yourself as a professional photographer, you always had a black white darker. Color Printing as we know it, we call now the analog world then it was called color print. That slowly came in the kind of mainstream. Sixties seventies, but that was purely big labs big photofinishing houses. It was difficult. You need a big processors he needed temperature control you needed. People Staff and. The Lap And? And it'd be fair to say that traditional see printing. I've never met anyone that said, Gosh I just love the way my seat prints used to. There were revered print processes back there like dye transfer some people remember CPA chrome off of things. But they're just kind of there in the past. It's kind of interesting history lesson in I. I lived at and that's where all this hair went in those darker. Darker. But the first kind of digital printing. started. Really A in the early nineties and I was then a Kodak technical sales representative which was a revered job back in the analog days in my territory to zip codes in Manhattan. New. York City district. In, all my all my colleagues around the USA cars and car phones that were literally screwed into the dashboard. But I had what was called a walking territory because in two ZIP codes that I could walk the perimeter and twenty minutes. That was the intergalactic center photography. Didn't need a car but I always wanted one anyway. We started to see something called an iris printer start to hit the streets and this is this is kind of the the What is that thing? Known understood this thing. It was A. A printer designed for pre press proofing markets meaning for those who are not familiar with them the old web presses. When you went to make a brochure for or you were approving nagazine needed to create a proof that everyone would sign off on. Some of them are called signature proves different brand names, but there was so much at stake so much money involved when made a brochure to print it because once you started, you were committed to thousands, tens of thousands. He wanted a proof that would absolutely match. So there was no guessing and didn't have to Redo. So Iris was meant for that. That was his big thing. It had a big rolling drum and had all this stuff. And at at the start. There were a musician and the road manager who are really into photography. You'll know them as Graham, Nash of Crosby Stills Nash and Mac Holbert was who was the road manager for crosby stills Nash. Both of them loved photography. Graham. WHO has become a good friend. And we don't talk about music. It's always about Petar he would tell you. He was doing photography before music when his father introduced him to think he got a role of flex. Reflex and they went to zoo and they went home and waited till his dark and put the curtains up and they process the filming brand says he was home like all many of us of a certain age hooked in the darker. And Graham. Too Long Story. But essentially, all grams negatives from woodstock that he shot. disappeared couldn't find them. But. They have these proof sheets and someone showed them how they could scam the proof sheets. That was the first time. Anyone heard the word scan. And then they'd printed them in Graham talks about how they were amazing and what they would do and and how did this happen was done by a GonNa. David coons in his working for Disney in the imagination some he's geeks serious geeks. Your early nineties. Granted. You know I've got to see this machine gotta get this thing and then. Graham and Mac. Brand purchase an Irish machine. He says, it was honored twenty six thousand dollars and the first. Ten minutes avoided the warranty because they didn't they wanted to do good paper. They didn't WANNA use stuff to mimic what a magazine would. Or you know what a brochure would be. and. They basically Took Max wife's took his vacuum cleaner. And they jerry rig on there to pick up all the dust that will come off the papers the drum roll. And they they made the first true fine art inkjet prints. there was a computer, but there was no monitor was all tape drive. This is definitely early early early. Taste quality was remarkable the problem was. Those her die things. Die. based. Inks are the technical term is fugitive. We would notice fades and those things but sometimes fade. While you're looking at it. There were great way. This was great. But I remember shortly after that. And then they start a business called Nash editions it was never meant to be A. Capitalist you know kind of we're going to make a lot of money do stuff they wanted to evangelize this as a great way to do photography and finer-printing because so many people never loved the print and you know. Of target his recently passed away maybe you never know David Kline. Was a great great. Tired of the West and it was based in Idaho Cowboy. You. If you see, a cowboy image was the probably shot it from. Sixty smell. Yeah. Seventies eighties. But. This was a common second. Then it's not today. Then it was like when you made, it had a CPR made a lab. To a commercial photographer, it was always, Oh, you know how'd you feel about this but I forgive the lab yet again because there weren't really good options. Now, all of a sudden, there's the promise that the photographer take control. That it wasn't a you know if you did colored printing, it was Magenta yellow remember. If you try to dodge and burn you know the old fashioned way. All of a sudden purview dodge go MAGENTA whatever you burn go green you know it's like out of control you can bring it back. PCS demand. He's coming back. It was like. All the stuff we learned black and white just didn't work. Color was like rules and follow this and remember. Agitate this, and if you go over one quarter of a degree, Fahrenheit and those you know shift color would do this do that I can remember even in school getting some of those prints. That we had to make them tech, we to make them in this it was used to call the French. Friar it was this basket system would pick up but print scenario a dip it between the of the developer bleach and what it was always in the dark. So you always had to guess my going in the right arm. It wasn't fun. That sounds amazing. And then you know you would take some of those sprint spending. All of a sudden, you would dry mouth them and the heat. All of a sudden siad because of the all sorts of problems. So, kind of nearly ninety to kind of bring it to where we're going on the Irish machines everywhere. and. The quality was different. You could print for the first time on fine art papers, cotton fibre papers on interesting stuff. There was still concerned about longevity and permanence I think. Did. Improve those products. Over time but this is about the time upson introduced the first inkjet printer in that that did change the game because now you went from tens of thousands of dollars. The first one was hundred, one, hundred, twenty, six, thousand dollars. In the machines that were then forty four inches wide that were in the. Five thousand dollar range, and then all sons smaller things were coming into play and. Now, you could do it yourself. But. It was challenging. Wasn't easy. Yeah. It's it was not easy. There were. I like. The term color management is is. was used very extensively in those days. It'd be fair to say at that time amongst photographers color management was. This this is around the late nineties. Kind of an oxymoron. WAS NOT. Manageable. Place. There were people involved in I. Don't want sound like an old. I remember this guy. But D- member Bill Atkinson Yeah. So bills this amazing guy at apple genius if you've got all the great things, but he loved photography but he had all these same problems at one had. So he developed what were known as the Atkinson profiles which was A. Target of how many different colored patches thousand. So Because what he was trying to do. Then if you remember in the analog world, you have curved shape you know black white was an esker. In color, it was an s curve for Red Green and blue. Then, the darker image trying to dodge burn will your red curve cross, your green curve, the unnecessary. You'd have these cross curves and it was basically live with her. You know take you know real estate fencing. So built tried to do as he created all these patches because we still had this kind of. On these curves, they weren't nice and smooth, and all of a sudden be Jag Olsen the different he created profiles to straighten out the curve. I was watching this movie last night. It's an old movie i. like it called Space Cowboys. In Implausible but the other coming in too steep and because they're on the wrong curve trajectory and that's what builds profiles got mccur. Your brain works. Printing and Bruce. Willis. Movies. Center. Here they're going to burn up you'RE GONNA. Skip off the atmosphere. Rain. Starting. With pretty you can start again with another paper. And that was like, Oh, now I can do color now. And then as technology continues to evolve evolve. And Epson started producing really good profiles and the print head technology and the screening out or them. All sorts of other technical things kept improving improving and then color management became mainstream. As I recall photoshop five that read that is win full-color management was possible or course, and here's the unfortunate thing then. and. We're still living with a little bit today is. All that color management nomenclature comes from that old pre press world. Zo things like relative cholera metric for your rendering Go you know that's That's all from newspapers and magazines where the absolute. There's foreign things there, and it's in Photoshop you'll still see them there. Those absolute saturation relative relative color metric not just relative and then perceptual and people go well I use perceptual because it helps me perceive the way that I know it was all from newspapers and absolute -ment. If you choose absolute. It'll absolutely match and I'll sign this and then I'm off the hook. That's that stuff comes from. Wow I. didn't I knew that. Useless information. More. Thank you. It's all right. It's already filled with useless information. That's. Kind of fast forward today. Now we have. Software that just. Makes it easier to work with a? You don't have to be a historian you don't have to be a scientist. straightforward tools you can use combined with what absence mission has been from from the start of entering the photographic market is to continually evolve and build this amazing technology with the goal that the technology gets out of the way. So you can focus on the photography that's the ultimate goal for absent in whenever we do an exhibition. Or. Trade. Show. Our ultimate goal is that you can't look at a printing go I can that's an epsom because I can see this I can see that. We've succeeded when it's all about the photographer not about absent. That's fantastic and that that's the thing you know and I think. that. Half that you just sort of illustrated. Identify with that because I was in the dark room I had printers and I remember seeing absolute versus. All that stuff and it was like. You know you can remember watching you bills some of those Graham Nash Videos. You know where he's like explaining fine art high end. Printing, and all this stuff I'm like one day I want to get there I can do it. I could do it. In I remember back then I was like. I could never it felt like I could never get there. I could never create a prince at home that was what I wanted it to be that I was like, okay this is the the the physical representation of what I saw on the screen. It was always different and I couldn't figure out why? calibration and all that stuff in there. In then would I want to I also want to talk about is you know the the? Is going to say laboratory the last. Shall say that. MINIUM. Minium said all that stuff. But the the difference between having a printer and home sitting on your desktop kind of like what you have behind you a printer at home versus sitting a, you know a tiff file to your local lab. Let's talk about that a little bit in the differences in the power of having your own printing in your own hand. You know you know in your own house versus you know for sending the FTP in the file and waiting five days for his show, where where do where do you fall on that? Today. It'd be fair to say. We encourage anybody to print whether they do it themselves or they send it to a service bureau or to a lab. Many labs today are using our technology. And encourage people to. Understand the technology the name so that they can be a better client for the lab. Wanted on this kind of paper. You should know what is capable in the labs will appreciate that. So A. Well, there are there are still a few labs doing seat prints. You'll still see that primarily in wedding markets. The advantage there is volume. About CPR still crank out. Tens of thousands of prince you know in a short amount of time in June we still have that thing. You know it's gotten a lot lot faster. But as far as maybe for those people watching this that have never printed. There's a couple of things about printing yourself. That Even if you don't have. Frederick in my hairstyle and lost hair and darker. There was something when you were in a dark room. It was out comedian. There was some magic when you saw that I print kinda develop front of your eyes no, and it was like. I've created fire I am an artist I. You know there was like the excitement. And to this day when I see. People. New to photography. Maybe they're in their teens twenties and they're making the first digital prep. It's that same level of excitement of. Oh my God you know when you see this thing coming out of the printer, it's that same level of excitement. Yeah something you made. You don't necessarily get that kind of joy and excitement when you upload something to the web or instagram. It's still that's pretty cool. But there's something special when you have some kind of two dimensional. Three dimensional object in your hands that you've created. So there's that level. Printing I have found this me. Personally, I'm biased the Epson guy so you'll have to filter that out. I think printing makes you a better photographer. It's the same kind of comparison from those the do video production and instill. And I do both. Still. Photographers can make the transition to video, but video people sometimes struggle going to still because instill. We're laser focused on that that border on the lighting and the details and the contrast and color in. With motion things move around and there's other things going on and you're telling stories and that's all great. But when you have a print. It forces you to slow down and look when you look. Sometimes you go. I didn't see that before. I. Need to edit the image need to do things next time, I can do this better. Gee I I can the old analog things kicking maybe I should have been yet and bring the corners and more drama attention here. Yeah. You, the print kind of makes you I think that better storyteller. And I agree I agree it's kind of like when you like if you're writing a letter or you're writing some copy or something, you could stare at it on the screen all day long and right right right. Right. But in two for me at least till, I printed out and then hold that printed piece of paper in front of me and read it I'm like. What did I say the WHO talks like that? Same thing. You could be in photoshop all day long and perfecting light room perfecting your image you print it out and you're like. What the Heck Ego and you got to go back yes I agree definitely Mike colored. Science background would say well, you're doing with transmitted Electro magnetic radiation verses reflective are on big big. There's something about you're looking at here and you see things differently. The other thing that I encourage those that younger people have never printed. There's a certain joy and it's a little bit of an ego thing. When you show those prince two other people and they hold the print or something tactile about that experience that says who? Now, depending on where you are I. Never knew you had it in you. Yeah. We'll photographer. Sitter Level a pro level. It used to be if you want to get work in a print advertising, there's less of that these days, but you would send to an AD agency the book. Now the bar met your portfolio Nand portfolios usually all over the place he's big leather cases or some those small things. You. Think some people try to. Themselves of the presentation of the book. A lot of inkjet printing became this great way to show the book versus you know even earlier when you people shooting chrome hold up chrome to the go out the window goes Kinda blue. Today, you can send the book on tablet. Many people do those talking with a very famous liberty photography was up for a job major AD agency in New, York and he always sends the book the printed book. And it was up against a bunch of other people who tablets and he said you know how I got the job they sent the prints because. In image on a tablet on a phone on the web. People tend to do this Yup Yup. Well, that's nice. Whenever print. They slow down. And they look at. Yeah. Can't physically but you look at an in and that if you really want to have the effect you you send cheap white cotton gloves it's important. You place a print very carefully that might be overkill for. Bandit it kind of gives that little. Extra this is important stuff. This is crafts. This is a craft. Money or else it's it has weight to it. It's real. It's not just existing in the Matrix it's out of the Matrix in the. In the Real World Dan have you talk a little bit about quality? So He talked about the IRS Hundred thousand dollar then tens of thousand dollar Irish printers and all that. Contrast those that level of quality from those machines with what we have available today. And then the third piece of that equation is lab printing, which may also like you said, have epson printers in there as well. If if I am a consumer and I'm looking and I'm like, yeah, I, you're right I need to start printing at home and my compromising by getting You know a reasonably priced home printer versus sending my images out to a lab or this is what I would get a couple decades ago from an Irish Brenner. Well I'm. Just to get foundation for talking about printers like the new Epson P. Seven, hundred, p nine, hundred, these thirteen inch, nineteen inch printers. Not, necessarily, the retail on all in one printers that you would say, you know the quality those pretty good. You, but if you get into this level printer. Let's say the thirteen inch once. Peace seven hundred you know these are They're under that. One's about eight hundred dollars MS RPM. It's a quality of that print and you can make thirteen by nineteen inch cut sheets is you can also do roles if you wanted to. It's it's. It's very difficult to define it technically. I like to give the correlation to we think back to the analog world. So this print. Produce with this eight hundred dollar printer. That or cost. You know a couple of dollars with Incan and paper. Is Vastly Superior. To a print was produced with about a half, a million dollars of equipment and a staff of five. Wow Wow. Can't say okay but it's like I was. During these interesting times were in I was cleaning out by Attic. and I came across stuff. Stuff I thought was amazing. That is now not amazing. Technically really. Just, look at what these things can do and the control you have. You know in the old days it was well, if you want to a lab and it was like you WanNa Glossy or Matte Those it. Now you have. All this. Control and you have all of this choice. And Quality wise things you can do and the technology itself is much easier. So for some unknown wanted printed home. There's a new software we have, which is for free call, the EPSOM print layout. Simple. Just follow the steps top down top down. And it just works. Now you know all the it's basically it's all of pain that we all went through fifteen years ago. It's all fixed. It's all solved and you have some choices to make what paper would you like? What size would you like? They're still backed to perceptual relative thing, but I haven't easy fix that one. And he'll make a print. That'll be remarkable. Now, the pre sewing to be as good as the photographer is share. The printers are amazing. Technological wonders, but they're only as good as the file center. Yeah Yeah see that's amazing that this it's ringing in my head that the prince. Today rival those gazillion dollar machines of years gone by and all that. That is just You know. From from somebody that has walked over those coals. Okay. My brain back then was like how this doesn't work I just WANNA, make a print of that. It's on the screen to that over there and it's should look very similar. How do I get there and it was hard and now it's not right. But also if you want to for whatever reason you don't WanNa print it home know the time or and you want to you can get that same level of quality. Just. Again, understand the technology what's available so that you can direct the lab is to what you want. But when you're when you're driving when you've got a mouse is You don't need a mouse to prohibit it helps. or a tablet You're in control and you can do things. That you can never do in the dark room, but it's also it's hard sometimes to explain to others want this. I, want this Oh and this one you can just simply do yourself. Yeah Yeah and sometimes you want to be quite concerned de like, Oh, I got people over I want to give them a print of this thing you know and share it right then. You. Know there's a couple of directions and we're we're GONNA time, right? Yeah. So a couple of things I wanted to chat about the. Today. We've got the A ton of people and we talked about this a little bit before we got a ton of people that are on instagram and they're using instagram as their maim distribution mechanism for the photography that they do. It goes from. You know from photons to the camera sensor to the memory card to instagram rinse and repeat and nothing in between. Those people that are doing that from from absence standpoint, how do they? How do they interact or how do they interject the world of physical Adams versus electrons into their their workflow like what would you suggest for those people that are doing that workflow over and over and shooting for the likes you know in the hearts on Instagram? Well. It wasn't that long ago that the only way you could see what you photograph was to make a print. and. Of course, that's changed from a variety of different ways and yours truly is all over instagram I. Love it it coexists with everything that we do for those that have only known instagram only see the value in it We're finding that. especially as more and more people are on instagram and it's harder and harder to get followers and get a likes or segregate from the rest. That sort of those people find those new income stream by selling prints. Anta and instagram is becoming more of A. Profit centers not the right word but more and more photographers that is their. Their primary mission and regular strength from that But also in there looking for sponsorship in you know but the more followers you get, then you can build a certain audience do different things, but that's getting harder and harder to do of target offer. So we're seeing wells people actually selling prints now and using their followers to get the word out about those parents. For the, for the folks that are that, you know speaking to the anyone to say I don't even think he's a generational thing but you know they're back in the day it was. Know. Desktop computers quadrant nine fifties murder Quadra. Max. And all this stuff. and. Then it kind of Segue into portable computers and macbook pros and all that, and then today you know a lot of younger people are like you know I. don't even own a computer do everything on my phone and on a tablet if I really. WanNa get serious I'll use a tablet. Talk about that were a little bit is epson like sort of addressing those people that may do the majority of their photo editing on mobile and portable devices disease vice especially especially ipads are. More powerful than a lot of the quadrant nine fifties or all of the Quadra nine fifty. A Lot. More borrow. We recently took a epsom printer layout, the software it's been available on the desktop, and we just introduced a mobile versions of it for both IPAD and iphone. Right now I o s only we're looking you know the platform. But. Yes, and it takes all of the. Ease. In the simple way to approach printing. That we do on the desktop, some print layout. And allows you to do that on the IPAD where at least my observation these are just here's a little insight. So et Epson, you know we have a research department. In. Run Statistical Studies and for. Your viewers that the run all the right things whenever I see and minus one out. Oh Yeah. Okay. It's going to get. But. I as a marketing manager I'm out in the field and I see people and there's this term. Then, our research department has coin called. Ganic Dawdle. Plan anecdotal. Dan. Totally we're seeing this. It's always correct, but they can't statistically proven. Love using that I'm going to use that. Don't. Totally we're seeing A. Lot of people that are artists graphic designers. really the tablet is also their primary computer. And Sung photographers the tablet becomes a much. Is there that gone from desktop to? Laptop to notebook to that the foam. is slowly becoming a more professional device, but there's also a lot of. A lot of selfish and fun stuff sure on the phone, but the phone is also becoming a device. So so yeah, we're seeing that and we're making this software available to do that. I was GONNA see if there's a way I could demo it here but. I don't think so. Yeah, it's not gonNA look too good but to it, I linked to block for sure a little powerpoint thing I could show you how it works, but it absolutely works and I. I, my colleagues, we baited their Alpha testings crowded and we're looking this several months ago. Honestly I thought Oh. Wow. Fully color managed. Software workflow on the phone you know. Yeah Works. Does works see that's interesting because I like we were talking off line a little bit about the the. Twitch TV. Community over there, and there's a vibrant community of younger photographers. You know it's. There's a lot of across the spectrum of photographers, but there's a lot. There's a contingent of younger photographers that are in there and some of them are using ipads as their primary. Way of editing their images, Eagles, editing wedding work on just an IPAD and it looks fantastic on there and I as an old guy link really come on in my day. We all are photos were on punch cards and we. That's not a real. Real photography. But in all seriousness, the work looks every bit as good in some cases better than anything that you'd see on a on a traditional desktop or laptop computer. So Joy. EPSOM for addressing that I should say just A. That the EPSOM print layout for phone and IPAD at this time only works on the new piece seven, hundred, eighty, nine, hundred, thirteen in. Seventeen inch. Desktop version works on a lot more printers, but this is it's basically recently launched in minutes out there. and and the software listed the best part. Software free. Well. Well let's let's talk about the product line a little bit because I'm curious we talked about there's a lot of options obviously for photographers grid Matrix in terms of you know. Papers and and you know everything you know you pick what you want and it's easier to get from image that's in your mind's eye or in. Photoshop. Light Room out to the printed surface to you know to to present. But what does that look like in terms of cost for the photographer you know from a from an enthusiast that's not making money from photography but wants to print and maybe hang stuff on the wall all the way through to the the pro commercial fashion wedding shooter that wants to do that needs to do you know maybe not volume work but they need to print a couple you know a hundred images and they all need to look good. What's. The lineup for those people. Well. To think terms of size. And and printers come thirteen inches wide seventeen inches wide. That's kind of the desktops. Then, you go to twenty four inches wide forty, four inches wide up to sixty four inches wide. Sixty four is a big deal. Now, you're back into what it was like twenty. Th these printers are amazing. They're not that big. It's like, wow, that's great until the print starts coming out and. Going to put this. Another room, hang my prints. Rather, than going to the appeal of all these kind of printers, the way I like to think of it as the. The thirteen inches count that entry level getting going learning from it. But it's that seventeen inch printer. That's kind of the sweet spot because it started out as Oh if you're of a certain age. I'm nowhere near as old as you. You know you're a certain age that was the big the print that was the. The criminal the Kremlin six. Twenty? You could do sixteen by twenty in the darkroom because anything bigger was a nightmare. and the seventeen seventeen inch printer, which really can cut sheets seventeen by twenty two. Does the sixteen by twenty and there's something about that size. I did make a couple just to show I. Don't know. We'll see this. So this is a seventeen, twenty two. This is on the legacy textured paper printed on the the new P. Nine hundred, and here's a thirteen inch. This is glossy paper. which is still terrific cise. And that's But there's This Sun. It's nice. Nice and it's very versatile and allows you to do things and and of course, there's there's letter size prints. Those are great. But. In some ways, the way to think about it if you're. Into photography. And Yeah. You'RE GONNA buy a printer you're going to be buying some ink and paper. I, like to think of it is it's kind of like buying a good lends for your camera. It's about the same price point depending on what leads what camera big arguments about that one, but it's actually independent can be a little. More but think of it as buying you're buying a lens as far as you know, kind of total cost. And then your business. And if you can sell prints than it pays for itself doesn't but also utilizing the built in color management stuff. There used to be an old joke in the old days. Epson doesn't want this color management to work because people are going to burn through a lot of incompatible trying to get a decent print. Our goal is not that our goal sure. We want you making a lot of prince, but we want each one of those prints be exactly what you want and have that experience not wasting any. And it does not affect. I'm sure days you made a print and it was like and then you put on your old analog route. So it's Magenta. So Start Chasing your tail I'm going to go put green in there it but green and. You know it's like my golf swing. It's a series of compensating airs. Reggie bivary road. You Bill. I. I literally had above my printer in it by the workstation, the color star. With the colors on their. You're using a ring around out your. You remember the ring around. Yes. I saw it in history book. Crazy so Have you ever I have a question I'm hoping you can you know apply some Epson official logic to this argument. So in the twit pro community, there's been an ongoing discussion about presentation of prints and should you the gist of it? Some people think that every print you create should have a border on it you know within Photoshop. Border or white border, and maybe even a key line around the image because it, it presents the image. Better there's another camp. Am I gonNa tell you what cam you probably can guess but there's another camp that says the prince should be the print in if you want to add presentation to be done in the real world with physical mats and Physical Frings, where where do you fall on that? You know you dental I know it's subjective you danil personally, where do you fall on that? Well. As long as it's a print. I don't. Suffice. Printing out. Okay. What did you do with the pixels? I would say. If you were to come to a trade show or were exhibiting when we can exhibit again right now we're doing urgently. and. I manage all of that in photo trade shows. Each one of those prints is. Simply an elegantly framed with consistent simple map. Yes In that case I have to I do have to stay within certain constraints on size based on trade show properties. So, what I WANNA do is maximize. The size of the print frankly shows off what technology can do. And, then I will use these. The software was talking about to get the size I need exactly to get as much as large as I can get unfit but the Matt things I WANNA do. But if you're a person that likes deck alleged Israelite US stroke lines or you like to have multi things or you print on canvas and you do wraps and it's some people like me wraps and some people like blurrier absence, some people like solid wraps. If you're printing. Important. Yeah Yeah I. Love That I love. Good answer. Good answer. It's right on the line. Very Very. Dano right there. It's perfect for. All right. Here's here's a little. Here's a little hint. GonNa comes a little bit for my color science background and how human? Vision Works and it says something to keep in mind. Does relate to borders. And for those people like those big white borders. I'm not making any judgment, but you should be aware that as. Human Beings. We are, innately. Drawn to. Highlights in contrast. And if you print with very large white borders. It will at the limbic system of our anatomy. Make your print look a little darker because essentially when you have that much white surround your I is stopping down like an. Yeah that may be appropriate and I always find what I'm doing that, and if I can't control the lighting, I have to make the print and there's a need for a white. I have to make the actual image area little lighter. To, compensate for the effect of that white surround. There's a reverse happen. If you put a black border on their the in the print, just looks darker and your eyes open up a little bit. It's no different. Talking like an old man, but you know all. An end come on I've I've owned his own. Concept. Is the same when we used to shoot transparency film me by ten magazines, chromosomes remember those. The way you would do the shoot the way you would impress the art director, but he turn off all the lights in the studio in you would put the chrome on top of the white box, and then you would put matte black mask all around. So that chrome just glowed. Look at all that stuff then came the the angry phone call a couple of weeks later. When it printed. So dark in the magazine because when you see how they printed magazines, they would take that chrome put it in a light box next to a white banging down on it. And that's where that old four stopped the the. Could hold this much information, but the print can only do this. Where do you? So. So yes, sync concert. Bring. You have more control? So yes. Beware of the big white border because it could distract from your and. I love that I love. Siege Words sage word. So when he gives you the I wanNA give you the last word on this down on the there is a There's a saying I forget who said it you. You will know who said I'm sure but I don't know if it was ansel Adams or someone, but they said that the print. Is. The punctuation at the end of the sentence Where do you fall on that is is the print the Peng especially in? The Absence Oh of course you know you're going to say, yeah but but just like when you look at it from the standpoint of you know we're in two thousand, twenty moving into twenty, twenty one and most emerges are shared online by since we've been talking millions of images have been shared online, right? So Muslim shared online in the context of all that is that still true is it still true that the print the physical embodiment of the pixels? In the file on your screen. The sentence is not finished until you output to adults where you feel fallen. Honestly et us. Instagram I love it. You can look at my side we use on time. For me personally I kind of fall back on my mentor who has Jamie Zell. Him. When he was J. has many things to say. But when it comes to the print, he said it's the print. which you can build your reputation. I love it. Always remember that. Yep I love that I love it Dan, Steinhardt where where can people go to? See your work or to connect and see all these epson printers, etc. What's what's the best place for the most important thing is to go the absence site which? Is Print your legacy dot com and you'll see the entire Epson. Professional printers and media signature were media in legacy papers. And then we also have a youtube channel that I've put together to teach people about some things how to use the latest software nets, Youtube Channel, and its EPSON DOT com. Forward. Slash critic how to me. And two more. Are the, the new EPSOM pro instagram site we started exclusively for the professional community that encouragement of your viewers to follow. Join me be part of that is at Epson pro photography. And if you're really bored, you know you can look at my instagram. which is Dano underscore Dano underscore steinhardt. Sudden hundreds. The other stuff's more informative. Yeah. So we'll go in that order know. Print your legacy dot com the youtube channel EBBS DOT com slash print academy, and then. Follow. Ebbs and photography at epsom photography and then. Time. What is it absent pro photography. It's at some pro photography. That's the instagram handle in in mind is at Dano underscore Steinhardt we'll see all the All. The images I to say were taken between meetings, which is true. These are all things that I've shot between meetings while I'm collecting all that Dan Godal information. Name instagram account anecdotal come on. I'm. GonNa I'm GonNa go register that right now. Go Fifty Fifty There you go of L. A. Register and then trade it for a printer go. Around here. Dan Thank you for doing this man I appreciate your time today. This has been formative. I'm excited about printing and I'm excited that that. How obviously Epson is serious about printing but I'm excited about how serious epson is about reducing the pain between what you see on the screen and what you see in the prince because we as photographers we just WANNA see. What we created in, photoshop come to life on Apprentice Cran and not have to be technicians in the middle of all that yet. Thank you and Kudos for. Great thank you.

Epson Photoshop instagram Eastman Kodak Company Graham Nash People Staff Dan Godal marketing manager ansel Adams Dano facebook USA Idaho amd woodstock David coons Danone
Abbi Jacobson

QUEERY with Cameron Esposito

1:01:09 hr | 4 months ago

Abbi Jacobson

"Right now, an ear will three with Scott Akron Laura lab guests, and Paul F Tompkins has returned for season three and this time it's free for everyone. Check it out now wherever you get your podcasts for more follow out euro fund social media. Happy Listening. Hey, Queiroz Cami here if you want to listen to query without ads, the only way to do that is by signing up for stitcher premium just go to stitcher premium dot com or the premium tab in your stitcher APP and sign up with the Promo Code Query. Try a free month of premium listening you get. Ad Free Listening to query and all your favorite ear wolf stitcher shows, and your premium subscription supports me and the show directly to that's stitcher premium dot Com Promo Code Query for free month of premium listening. Thanks. This is a show about individual experience and personal identity. There may be times when folks US identifying words or phrases that don't feel right to you. That's part of what we're exploring here. Please listen with an open heart and as always I welcome your plate engage feedback and I encourage you to continue the conversation in your own life and with your own community. Welcome to query. Hey Queiroz camping here. This week's episode is a chat with Abby Jacobson from broad city from her book. I might regret this I may regret this and also from the awesome upcoming show on will be awesome. A League of their own I love this chat with Abby was greatest here and I hope you enjoy it. Feeling. Still. A No knows careless. I was guessing truce themselves, introduce yourself. Yeah I'm Abby Jacobson. I don't know if I think I'll just like say that I don't think I know we had a good. Self. Announcer. Why does I have a question about that? Because you know I think you are somebody who like. You had such a successful television show. Pretty early in your life I mean. What's assume and? You're right. Right. End. and. But. Then you've also written books. You have a new show that you're working on right now I wonder like, do you do you want to be like? I maybe Jacob from this or is that like no longer fun to do. It's interesting I think I think right now at this point in time. You know broad cities like. We ended and. I think we ended in twenty nineteen I'm truly like what where are we? Now? We don't know our time is just so. Fast and slow you know. But I believe it. Did I truly Mike did I end in twenty. Yes I ended in like it ended in. March of Twenty nineteen. And while it's like the thing I'm most known for and I used to like I want to do all this other stuff on my. I love that show. I Love I. Love. Red. City. I fear I will never have an experience like that. For the rest of my life I could be happy from broad city I'd be happy with that. Just because I love that experience so much I'm like why not? I'm really happy for you that that's the answer I'm Suzanne. Slick? I think that there's I think that that could just as easily go the other way you know like for somebody that didn't have a good experience and that I'm sure visible bad experience like what a nightmare and then they'd be like like every time. I did I knew and doing other things but it sure D- INTRO MIA's that I've mom. I miss it. I miss it a lot. So I'm I'm fine. What are you talk to me about what you're up to rate now roy in your? In your television world because I actually don't know what is going on in terms of shooting. Like I know that you were working on their own and I know that. Some Powell's even it's awesome cast this stuff us. Photographs, people wearing. Baseball Pants. Going on right now in terms of Cova Dennis. Yep Me neither in the in the broader sense because I'm like when anytime I hear of somebody shooting him like you're shooting right now but so we have had a very law this the leader on. TV reincarnation is you know we wrote this. I. We had a initial room in twenty eighteen and that was when we were. It was more of a half hour. A little more heart little more like comedy forward. And then it was supposed to initially an Amazon who knows that they're gonNA like what they're not. Supposed supposed to kind of go room to series, and then they were like we're just gonNA. We should just make a pilot and. You're like, what? Like we just wrote this whole thing and they're like we're just GonNa make a pilot and we really want it to be an hour. And in that moment will Graham and I who is my partner doing this we were like, let's move like it was it was not the movie. The characters are very different, but it was like, let's move farther away from the movie in terms of the All American Girls League, that was like half of the show and Sorry this is like a longest answer ever, but we ended up then took taking a rewrite that pilot and then we ended up shooting the pilot, which is the the photos you've seen full period. Right before. Go. Like we shot in February. And then and then we have like a a good a good two and a half weeks in the edit in person. And like March thirteenth at that point on I, we had been in the edit, which is like you know it's like so valuable to be there with the editor and then the rest of it we did virtually but it's like we just got that finished I. Mean we finish it in April and I'm like that was just like I can't believe we we got we shot that manage shoot if and then it got picked up. So now we are truly Monday beginning again. With another writer's room. Like its value it's very different. It's like a whole. It's like a very different tone like the whole new area. It's. Definitely funny but it's like way more dramatic. It's like an hour long show and so now I'm like. I am. Is that stress zone to be honor but feel also like? It took it took like will and I pitched it in two twenty seventeen. It's taken like three years to be like this is the show. I'm very happy at night. Proud of it and I'm just like. We gotta we gotta get it right. So the shooting of it of this show like I don't know covert wise either. I think we will end up shooting in the spring fingers crossed. That was a long. It was an hour of me talking. Sorry. I mean unfortunately for you feel like I actually have further questions about what you just. Have superstar. Superstar of well, the good news is you directly to Major League baseball or the NBA like excuse me we need to shoot a covid friendly baseball so Yeah. So. Excited to do the. redoing of mobile thing or do you feel differentiating or is that like actually I think this is the one I wanted to make. So I feel like the gift of getting to do it. So. To be so honest when I room was going on I was still shooting brought city. So I wasn't in that room the whole time. And I was sort of just acting as I was in it for the beginning and I was I was an EP giving notes and thoughts but like. I think that we needed these years and like really examining the real stories you know. I love the movie but this is I think this is definitely like A. Deeper dive into like the real women's stories the ones that were. on the League in the ones that were not allowed to be on the League and I'm so happy like when somebody you know in this industry when when they didn't even pass but they were like we're just GonNa make a pilot that was initially a big blow. I guess this room this didn't work like we gotta start over at you know at the beginning and I'm like I'm so happy that that happened. Because we actually found the voice and and unfortunately that room was great like. I said incredible writers. It was just like a totally I just read all the scripts this past month it's just a totally different version. Makes Sense just not to cut you off but like it also makes sense, it'll be a different version of knowledge because they're starting to make this show in two thousand seventeen but then you're making it twenty twenty, those three years like in terms of media I just think we've had love craft country we've had watchmen like we've had. These shows that are. Like more honestly speaking about the black experience I think if you're making this shit or making league of their own, the stuff that you were just sort of referencing weirdly. I can't imagine why this is true. I know a lot about this subject and I know that some of the stuff that you're talking about is that like black women were not allowed to play in the league. I also know. That there was a lot of actual clearness going on in the League and solely interesting. I just think it makes sense that there would also be a stutter step because. TV changed so much. Excited tuna today. Yeah and I think that like you know even in the past seven eight months. Yes. Drastically and I will say like listen it only. It only has made us. I think initially in twenty seventeen in two, thousand, eighteen I was most nervous about people being so obsessed with the movie and this being a very different take. But the original pitchers like it's a hander, it's really a two hander between. I'm going to it's it's to hinder between the character I play Carson who is a white woman who goes to try out for the League in what happens when that door opens and it's about this character Max, who's a black woman who goes in? That door doesn't open and she's based on a handful of women who ended up going to play in the in the Negro Leagues with men, and that was always our pitch and the and that was a part of the initial room, but it just has been like more and more those two narratives. and. The League, the the new Latin narrative in the league part is the queasiness that was not really exploited on the film. Those through things have only been more talked about and represented, and and we felt like gathers dislike so much there to kind of dive into. And the the past year especially I mean, we shot the pilot and then you know. Everything that's been happening in our country in the world we're like. Okay, I feel good about the choices we made on this show I'm excited to go into writing the back half of it. You know I feel good about the characters we have like it'd be. It'd be different if we had just shot the pilot and then we like hadn't made it'd be like, oh no. Yeah. Absolutely. May I know that you talked about The like fan the Phantom of that movie which is so. Broad and so deep What about like your sports history? Jock. It's funny. I was growing up I grew up. Outside Philadelphia. You, know very! And integrate way. The the women sports around me were like wildly competitive. I my biggest soccer I played travel soccer. I really good at travel soccer kind of until I started smoking weed. And then my like priorities shifted, and I also I come from a family where where visual artists like very important ended up going like art. But a lot of my friends growing up ended up going to play like college they got scholarships for from across in soccer to Georgetown. It was a very my high school. the women's teams were like incredible. So I ended up playing not really at high school because they were so good and I didn't take it as seriously but I went to overnight camp for a long time as a kid. And it was like. Predominantly Jews and my high school was no Jewish peoples as the only Jew. And so I was like good at sports at home. But when I went to Camp I was really good. So I was like really good. With all of the other Jews, not so good with the non. Top Jew in sports I was pretty good all around all around but I did I played softball for a long time soccer again was like my sport I played basketball a little bit Yeah. I was I was jock probably until I was Yeah I couldn't I couldn't do like actually actual school sports. That's still asked I asked for specific reason which is like. I something a little older than you but we're not such a different generation but my sister. Is like three years older than me and. Because of wind title nine happened like the actual trickle down of that like she sort of just over the cutoff where like travel soccer soccer teams that thing that I have such context for like that wasn't a thing. So like three years how she added on like the the like the town we grew up on, you know they had. Like a soccer league in Softball League and also like I was a swimmer and I was basketball player volleyball clearly I was all of these things in she liked just played softball and was kind of bad at it like that was for full access point for sports how in the direction of dance but It's just very interesting because like I know there were some. Women she was growing up with like in her class who were like. The best players on the team but by the time I was a kid, it's like, Oh, you're like five and you're like on teams. Oh, I know unlike your summer. Job Gets to be able to juggle six times to get on the team. It was like very competitive. Very competitive and I actually also think like to your point. Well, I don't know in my in my high school because I went to like is it was very academically strong, and I think that that means that it's like not paired with good men's sports because I think if you're like good as a young dude it your maybe your parents filter you into the top. Schools for basketball or interesting. You know like where I grew up, you might just have gone to the public school because you'd be more notice than they can get the scholarship whatever. So all of the men's sports names were like terrible. But because for women's sports, there isn't really like there's no payoff. It's like the payoff is like scholarship. That's the full. Gear. So. It actually kind of Mary's really well with like an academically strong school. So late, the men's teams, all kind of sucked except the soccer team was pretty good. The women's teams were amazing like constantly going to state everybody's exits talented. It's like the worst men's basketball players and the best his best ball players, of course lake. We know who? was. Like more. Team was very appreciated. Yelich. I wasn't even someone that like went to those games. Very much like. But it was like the women. At least my like my friends I. Guess Because I, grew up playing soccer with them. They all went to play like. Georgetown soccer I was like. Okay I like they were just so good and and as you said like always at state or whatever the like I can't remember the vocabulary for like what happens to high school teams but. I, do love sports I do think I'm competitive. by don't I have never played intermural thing. As an adult. You WanNa feel. Like other people. Don't have a lot going on in their lives. In a rural sports I think is the way to go because I, I look. Like I'm here for the hang and everybody else in the team was like. The fucking wit. I've heard. The the baseball teams here a lot and I must like there's no way if anyone's listening listen totally respect the intramural baseball teams but like I'm not I can't go now it's like too many like is it would be like a you. Oh Yeah. Figure actually I agree with you. I think that's ship assailed unfortunately. So sorry, it's You'RE GONNA. Pay Sawyer. Okay. Good like. Think all of that. We just mentioned I it's relevant to this conversation also because I, know that that's a huge part of the built in audience spur this show Eddie Buddy, Mij-, or younger. WHO's a woman is impacted directly by this massive change that happened after title nine we're like now. I think I just think that certainly are really competitive at a young age. oftentimes because we don't have. A thing to shoot for later it can almost feel like there's more pressure on like those young years. Yeah. It's got to win the eighth grade shaved. There's nothing else for me. This is it. This is. This is. On that letter jacket on, you're talking about like that. You weren't even the person who went to the Games. You also mentioned finding. We'd let me ask you a question about you in high school. Who is this person? Describe her a lovely to introduce you to introduce her to me. Yeah. Like even know I was very athletic probably. Played on the school teams freshman year in high school, and then I just stuck with travel soccer like indoor soccer. For. Fun like it turned into not being. As like I wasn't. There was no I was like this is not. I'm not going to play college like this is I was on also unlike I was no longer on the eighteen was like the be team travel soccer and that was like the fun girl we were like we're on the same page we love this, but we're not like trying to figure in Bonn. Yeah me in high school. I mean I definitely played I definitely played with this. I'm proud city allowed like. My friends and I. were. Always going to concerts I've a brother. WHO's four years older? Who is obsessed with fish assessment the dead obsessed like any jam band and I just end. We'd and So that was like a trickle down to me. Access to to lead in that way. And so. It. was just like I I think I knew I wanted to go to art school I never would have thought this at all like this world at Mike. There's no way I would ever be an actor right like I don't know anybody in the inish like it was just like not a not even like thing like I. Think I was always interested in acting and performing. Did it a little bit but the the really big plays at in high where musicals and I, can't really saying and so I would always do like the comedy. Things like this, like the smaller little productions, but I wasn't even like in that. I was like a big store owner and. I was just like. Art Major in high school. That was like my focus. I think it's the most I mean people still assume I smoke so much weed and I really don't anymore I do socially. So so I don't right now. But that was like the top. I, like from high school on it was been like Kinda down, which is funny. I wasn't you at all but I was friends with you. I had the one there is one the one. Person In my group of friends. I also, it's funny. My sister was like. I. Mean you describe your brother like they're probably at the show same shows it's also funny to have somebody who is. Brothers for his message funding has died age who's been to see the dead. It's a little bit life. Well, it was in your own kind of daddy missed reincarnation 'cause 'cause I'm about to my sister's Jerry died in ninety five my sister saw them literally like fourteen or something and like metal either show. Them Oh Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, it's like also she's like a kid you know what I mean like. Doing here what's your? Point for this will but like high school me and my friends were going to see like the allman brothers Omar he sees Ashton Young Puck. Bad the data go to see Graham Nash. With I would with my sister. To. Fish and I was I think that point she might have been maybe she was in college think I was in high school and You know I was so excited hanging out with earlier socal be invited somewhere by her and everything. So out and got like an outfit but like I mean, this is like He's like I went to fucking leg the gap or whatever and. I think I was wearing. Leather Pants and like. It was like a shirt it's like A. It's like a tooth tough. That's also a Napkin leg. It's like it's extremely you select your you. Know I. Suit like that. Yeah that was. That incentive layered pants Halloween doughnut smoke weed. I've never had a drink in my life. I like. My parents even had to drive me because it was like it was not at the local outdoor music place. It was like it was at Alpine Valley for anyone listening that lives in the Midwest that is our new business. So insane. Alpine from this show. From like sly Alpine golly. Real dude it is real. It's a real. It's really the place I show up. I'm like panting through everybody cook and grilled cheese it was real. It was a real vibe I haven't. Dances. They do not taste good if you're. Saying like trailer. Playing Marie okay. He's playing for like forty. He's like he will not stop jumping on a trampoline. I'm literally like looking around like when's the song end I'm like trying to ask everybody but isn't it? It seems like it's over right 'cause they're just not the same loop at this point yeah yeah. Wow. Yeah I you know it's it's a it's. My high school self would not even understand because I've gotten to meet them. Now which is like what is that? I mean. It's I will always have finance for that music. It's not like a part of my life anymore. I don't. Think. My musical has expanded my musical tastes expanded but like. You know it's like curing songs from your. High School days like reminds me of my high school friends. It's very Like, has a I have a place in my heart for but I I'm I am very associated with that. And I made my character on the on Brad City be like obsessed with them too but it's just they were so. I recently went to show like met. That meant I was like not. Mike Hi Either and it was. Just I was like I. Don't know I like like play the studio version. I would like the jamming is just like not as much. My mind vibe anymore. We changed grow growl you now. Yeah were at the past jamming I actually always been passed jamming. Yet I've been a bit of a post Jim Yeah personality type of a while I also I think what I also. I don't know. It's also wildly such as well to meet somebody but like. I think a straight a thing. I hear what you're talking about is. That, if somebody sends, you love like that. have in context for you. Like not just running into. Someone you like recognize at the grocery store. And that can be really cool but I think what you're talking about is. Very No I both very unusual experience and I think it's also like very. humbling experience or odd because it's. You know I'm assuming you didn't meet them in passing am assuming that they were all so excited to meet you can like. An odd thing to experience as a human bird to hold. It was a It was like a great moment I got to bring. Three of like my best high school friends to the show and like go backstage while and they're obsessed with fish. But even like even two like they would have gone to the show. Without me and I was like Kinda. Surprised them. And getting to see them they were like. Just. So overwhelmed backstage. Trey and Mike. You know an I and I got and it was just it was bizarre that they knew me and I was like this is it was like a lot. Yeah it's not good. Yeah. Can you ever process? It's strange. Yeah. I was happy. New Faculty. It was very odd but yeah, it was great. It was great. This episode of Query is sponsored by APOSTROPHE, the prescription skin skincare company that connects you with a dermatologist online who can prescribe you products to meet your skincare goals. APOSTROPHE makes prescription skin care. You'll actually WANNA use simply fill out apostrophes online questionnaire about your skin concerns and medical history. 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It's refreshing comes in a bunch of flavors including KITA friendly lemonade and pink grapefruit with no added sugar plus hydrogen introduced its new immunity line available in either lemon ginger or hot apple CIDER got a thousand milligrams of vitamin C Plus B twelve b six and d essential vitamins, minerals electrolytes with ginger and zinc. Are you trying to spend your your time out running? Running and keeping your bod feeling. Awesome. Even though you're not near your friends, then you come home from run your like. Thirsty Shit you think what could help hydrate faster hydrant that's it. I guess. So excited I drop my chapstick onto my water bottle strengthening routine. No matter the season it's total immune support. Your special deal for our listeners could save twenty five percent off your first order. Go to drink hydrant dot com slash query or enter our Promo Code Query at trek out drink hydrant. Dot Com, slash query. I. Hesitated to even ask you. To be on the show on this show. Because because. If I ate. Fish. Because I feel like Like you've had sort of a different process with speaking about your identity than like I did for instance, like I I like came into public life. I had a very difficult time coming out and then. Processed some of that through being on stage but by the time I was. At all on television or anybody had any context for me I already had been. Really worked out a lot of things. For myself personally. Yeah. In I, don't know that that is your experience. That is not my experience at all. I know I think like. In a way and this is also why the experience abroad city was like. So important to me and I think Alana would feel the same even though. We didn't quite explore like Alana. Alana on the show was like the epitome of fluidity from the get go. That was like what we leaned into. And my character was like you know we use so much of ourselves and like you know obviously I, hope that also you can see the difference in our in me and my character, but like we lean until a versions. At different times but throughout the course of making that show I kind of just. Fully just like realize a lot about myself and Realize my queer nests and. That I was also. Completely into women to and. Dated a woman and and really wanted to at that moment really wanted like do that on the show to like I'm giving so much to abby the character like let's do this here too and like 'cause it was it was such a late in life. I was. I. Got Pardon. Me was like Jesus what an idiot like you went to art school like Maura, missed opportunity grow like what about you know like? And it was. You know. I don't know I think for me and a lot of COMEDIANS and writers I'm like I just. I'm just working off of my experiences like that's my main like brainstorming well to like explorer onscreen or in in writing or whatever. So I'm going to do that here and then I like did also. The like did write a book of essays. That's very much about that. I'm stumble a little when I talk about this too but I'm also like totally open book about it but does that make sense like yeah it was a very late in life and I also felt like. Wow I would want to I. Wish I had to watch. That was that. You're like. I read I had a book to read that was that because that would have been like great. I would loved I would have found a lot in so. In the same way that. We were like, let's explore friendship and show as much of our friendship in the nuances and all that onscreen. It's like let's do the same for this because my experience was like happening simultaneously. So. Did you feel fine with that the whole time like the fine with the idea of exploring this On Kane, real. nodded. Guys it was fine with it. It's really listen I was. I think we did it onscreen probably like. I mean I'm thirty six I only started dating women when I was thirty two, this is not that long ago. But I also like not for happened. I was like. You know as I as soon as I like, it's it's it's very funny too because this thing just happened in it's only good I'm like whatever people can. Think, whatever like I posted something recently because it was like national coming out day. It's so funny like people. Are Pretty Open but I. would. I was really big details I just were. We played with this this like bid on the show when abby dates a woman, which is like. the when she dates gives her this hat and we like talk about sexuality through like Alana's like so like are you like? I didn't realize he wore hats like we like with this thing and I posted this photo of me with the me from the show. It's like me and that that from that episode and I was just like. You know I tried to. Just be like recognized like. Oh I m. someone that like I just didn't like I didn't like. I feel like I was so like kind of. Covered up like blocked from like my own sexuality for like my whole life and didn't didn't like. Didn't allow myself to see it until I was. In my thirties. So I'm like listen I. Just wrote something like it took it took me. So long like deal is this about myself like to all late bloomers or whatever, and I think I got texts from like people I went to high school with and they were like, I'm so proud of you like this was like two days ago. And I was like I truly was like what are. What's going on like for what and then relieve your post and I was like? Oh. Yeah. I like I guess whatever regardless all that to say like I think people just. came out like two days ago. Volcan can also like for me I'm like I was I do I like My. I would identify as clear. I it's so you didn't even ask this question, but it's been something I've been thinking about Cuza this stuck in thing. because. I think the What's the the? The bisexual invisibility. Like that that I might prone to be like, Oh, I am by, but I'm also like. I don't know why feel a bisexual means. For me anybody listening when I hear it. Like it means like you fifty percent this in your and I'm Mike, I feel more like that's changing all the time sometimes I feel like like Knob like eighty percent of women and Mike No it is. You know what I mean so. I don't know you didn't even ask but that's like what's been on my mind when All this shit just like came out this week I'm like what's going on? Friends. Like also I also wait like I feel like I've been like consistently putting out queer content like pretty autobiographically but I guess if you're not. On top of it. You would know that about me but I do think that people maybe don't know that about me I don't know. I, think there's two things that I just want to mention here. One is the like by saying. I totally hear you that that I think that I think that is like. I think like for people who are sort of like our age like actually think that is like sort of. What was the descriptive descriptive sort of nature of the thing just like almost that it's not just broke up with this person so we know who's coming next. Very, it which also kind of is related to. A. We're not talking about the gender binary is much in. A sort of blurred queer context. So I just think there's a lot of. All of these. Identity. All of these identities are have been shifting and are continuing to shift at like a really rapid rate. Almost sort of. Especially in the timeframe that you're talking about like the last four years, it's like it makes sense to me. You'd also be like I don't even know what the word is like the last four years verses the five years before that I think in terms of language were like on a rocketship like things and changing and in terms of language I'm like you know what? I don't know if you feel like this way as someone who's like. Public and I'm like, you know what? Do I who am I? I don't need to define it for me so. I'm like I don't need to define it for like. It's whatever is wrong as positive. You know what? I mean like fine I don't know like. I. Don't even answer your question. You're asking me you were like I'm not going to have you on the show. Yeah. Oh No. I think it actually was related to what you just said it wasn't about not wanting to have you. I wonder if there's two things going on one is. You know Homophobia made it so that like asking actor about. I mean, this is still true like I still think that there is like a media a barrier between asking an actor. who they're dating around like quickness I think people can pin asked the question i. do think the PR teams try to minimize that like I think that there are. Plenty of people who I know personally, like have a pretty clear relationship history. But who are still you not publicly out because there is like, yes, it doesn't matter the twenty twenty. There is still a lot of management around what things are shared when and in what way. So I wonder if some of that almost like rebounded back on you like that's why I didn't want to ask you because I was like, Oh, I, can't remember like does she talk about this like? Some, people don't. Know, it's interesting and. I. I, know I feel the same way where I'm like a lot of people it might be. Also be like. I think a lot of that, which is unfortunate are people that are like actors i. And they don't want their I. DON'T I. It's a shame because I'm like. A like it there. So I feel like there's like so few people that I'm like I'm going to be like open about it and like I I would want. People like when my book came out my friend Marcia. Who was the director that I had worked? WAS LIKE Because it was like super I it's called I might regret those like, Woodham, am I doing? But she was like just think about like a little kid like just thinking about like little kids like not little kids. But like young people like there's not a ton of like public queer people, there are way more than there ever has been, but they're still not a lot. And so it was like, yeah, like that is another reason why I would want to do this. I would want to read this book and I kind of always felt like stunted in my. You know I feel like my life is like this is like my major issue my life is very imbalanced. Work. And I like I think that's why everything happened a little bit later I was at work work work works they success I can do you know what? I mean and. But I did have this experience exactly what you're talking about. I remember when my when I did start dating women my publicists were like and we think that like we think people might like I got a call like in the morning and I love my publicist they were they were like, okay. We think that people know this and I was like fine. And then it was like I truly like was never gonNa make any like announcement like my family knew everyone in my life new but I wasn't going to. The book was never. GonNa do some sort of like tweet or whatever exempts A. Be You know and I was inner on a in a Vanity Fair interview on the phone about that movie that my friend Marcia directed six balloons and the woman was like. which is I was like she was like so. I don't get it. Abby. You're like such a catch. It like crackers like I. Don't get it. So like your Sacha catch what kind of man are you into what your type and I was like. It was like time froze I was like. This. Is like the moment where I like half while shoes to be like honest. And also catching me so off guard because I. Wasn't like hiding anything but I was like this is like vanity fair and then I stumbled through it. So poorly, I was like well, actually. I. I did men women and I said something like that. They didn't. It was a joke and then it didn't go well but it was fine but that was then used. Or that was like the poll quote or whatever, and I was like fine like great because I didn't want I would want people to know this about me, but it is such a like. It's weird. The the whole pr part of it is like a very weird thing. Is. I would also add that like it's very funny because the merger that you're talking about his Marshall this Ryan, who's the? showrunner of the new outward and it does feel like that's the person who should tell you to. Like link come up for the youth me the showrunner of the Schumer is the person show. The L. Word issue. was. was at yet. But it. Is when we reading about history. It's been some of the truly she she was someone. I sent a couple of chapters of my book to her and she was like. She was like. Even, if there's one young girl, that's GonNa read this that will have been worth it and I was like Marsha. You know so. Yeah. I mean. Okay two questions I WANNA. Service. You're talking about being thirty two and you're talking about like Work pushing in a sense of self away all and then you get to this moment and like I know what that moment was like for me where I had this like rushing in of understanding of twenty and. I. Wonder if it's Like. You go through a little bit of a second adolescence is at least you know my experience works like yeah okay. So I'm twenty but also twelve and I'm having both of those experiences at the same time because I've already dated but this is new information and I I don't know what that gap is like if it's if it's thirty to. Twenty. Because it's just like you've your vet like I'm assuming full adult relationships, which by the time you know is a twenty I had. Friends that are my highschool boyfriends in if they weren't like. Olindo relationships. So what is that like? Yeah, I mean I think for me Like the long relationships, the relationships in general for me is like. You would have you would have by you I mean be would have thought maybe thirty two like or I'll go back like when I When I sorta started dating women it was this thing of I think when I'm into when I it was just before this. But when I'm into somebody, I'm pretty confident I'm pretty like go after them the same way I would go after like a Perodua. I'm like. I I was very much like. I come in the mentality of like S I'm forward Because I guess that's my insecurity of like no one's coming at me so out that's I don't know and when I started dating women, it was very much like The only reason I'm not asking this personnel that I'm clearly into the same way like if they were guy, would've asked them out already like. That's the only reason like this is bullshit like why would I like so here we go and then I was. I like roller. Listeners, I was like Whoa what. and. And then I think after that I. Think I was like. Oh maybe it was like. It was like. Me Not fully understanding my sexuality. It made it was like. Me being interested in women that was like the the issues before with like me and relationships and like. More like relationship intimacy not just like saks the and mike why? Why am I like not finding like people I really WanNa like share my life with her whatever and it's like, no, it's not. It's not based on that. That's just like a me thing. So now it's I'm sort of back to that. At that makes this. I also realize. that. As I asked that question it had like a really weird embedded association that I'm like by the thirty two you've had like full relationship I don't even know I, just want to say that that is a wild thing to say to someone and Not I will say. that. Like is it slid off but I will say also as someone who? Had had adult relationships. It's just like, I guess as someone who was like never like. Really feeling good at that. Like they yeah. They happen but I really feel. Great about it I don't. Feel like I'm like. I guess. I would say, I'm not really like a relationship person not that I wouldn't WanNa but I'm saying that also to people who would be listening yes. Because if you're in your thirties and you haven't that's okay exactly. That's exactly what because data is over data is. stored. Nitsa out there. That's okay like. It doesn't. I don't know I think that I'm someone who like goes back into the. Past like spins, and then you let that dictate the future in it's like. You were here right now. You can move forward and have the relationships. That is fine. Yeah I'm saying this for me too because I I mean I wish. That I was like cool. Cool. Cool. Totally totally totally. I also, it's also funny because. I am somebody who I like have have been so many people. Like in a serious way like I'm just I feel like I've had very few relationships that were like more cash. That I think when I. Got Married. I thought it would be like amazing at it because unlike look at all these serious relations. So I just want also say that. You have a ton of serious relationships not know shit about shit. So that's exciting about being a person is that you can always find out like Oh, I. Need to relearn a lot of things that I thought I knew I think it's like I'm just trying to like it's all valid. It's all copy. It's. Like I feel like I learned so much from like my independence and also I think if like if we would be on opposite ends of that. Like. I think people that are like a lot of relationships often are like Oh, my independence is something I'm searching for like on my side it's like. is so much independence on Mike Searching for the other side. So there's always like another thing to like. Get better. Act Kinda I duNNo. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely right I I also like. I such a such, a sort of completely tight and. Smash together family with my two siblings and my move to la I I like. Didn't realize the. The Independent. The family independence how much that was also issue for me because I like had lived apart from a bunch of years and I thought I like already toured the country as a comic. To your point I just think sometimes we even if you sell something like checking into a hotel by yourself, which some people might. Be Like I. don't even get it. How are you constantly traveling alone them like Simon scary at all but then it's like but moving away from my family is possible in. Turn to the next person who's like I did it at. Sixteen. It's all. Yeah. It's all just building in the gaps the and nothing that we have like. On Lock. Yes I everyone has like their own. Like. Yeah. This the thing that scares them most or whatever that is or the thing that's like the easiest for them. Yeah. So. Before I am looking at the time in. Lake. You'RE GONNA ask you this Abby I always have folks on the show shoutout a Queiro which is a person place or thing that made them feel they can be they are today. Zor Quiroga Hewlett shoutout. I'll man I, mean I'm GonNa thing I should Sayer again Marja Lewis Ryan. That's a good clear that like that that fall in the category. V It's like people. Like a place, a place. a straight person who really. Go Out of support I mean it's I. Would say Marcia and I would say Alana. Yeah. I mean, maybe the good place to end, which is I'm thinking also about what you said about. Lake. Her character on his character coming in with all this. I know you are written versions of yourself on the show I, know those are not. People. That are you but also to have like. People in your life like merger Alana who like. Can have your back I mean just. Like. Honestly I'm in ask the League satisfaction in the world what is that like when I came out? I. Did Not Have Lake that team of people who? Told Me Shit was. Chill. Especially people who? Are Sort of like. Universally agreed upon his cool. You. Know Yeah. I mean a Marja I met into it already. So like I, that was like different but. Allama. Again. Just going back to that whole experience like Alana. End The team like the whole team of the show like. Like. That was quite a experience because it was like. It was me coming out and like realizing this huge thing and then it like. It just made so much sense to do that like I was doing it. We were doing it simultaneously then just a little bit later in the writing, and then in like the whole crew of that show became queer or like. With us like Biz like in a great way like all these people were like out of a sudden and it was just like like all of the St. Jude's I. Think we're just like. I felt like A. Like A. And in in the way, the show came out to like in the way like it almost felt like I was like I didn't even know I was like some Trojan horse. For that where it's like come in you think it's one thing it's not but you love that car you know what I mean like a it was like but Alana is so like you know the core of them are is so it's Alana was so just like. It wasn't even a thing and it also like that's why we didn't make it a thing like I didn't feel like, of course, I had to like call my. I had a lot of phone calls with my family and like all the shit that wasn't my favorite and it was like they're so supportive but it was just like what? You know that's so scary. But. On the show it was like everyone it was just like awesome. It was everyone was so excited to like. Show that. Side of me in the production to it was just so cool. I haven't even really thought that much about how incredible that was like no only was I accepted but then like it was like celebrated in the thing to it was just Yeah I. Don't think I could have. Asked for more supportive like. Around me at the time and then I was you know it was like a little bit of like a roller coaster there. Yeah I. Think you know when we talk about like modeling clearness. So often I, think they're like little kids in comes up like I think about that too because it's like that's where you have like a lot of Kid Trauma and your I will heal me. You know like an. So I think that's like beautiful invalid and I also. Think that it's easy to forget that lake. When we have any power, all coming out also affects the. The safeness, the safety of the systems around us. So like yeah, like the boss is out like make sense that then suddenly it's like also all these crew members. That white tracks? Yet because it because it makes it safe and you're like, Oh, I'm not going to be fired for this. So I think that's also something that Any listener who has any sort of job I think we? So often as people we talk about that lake speaking tour younger selves stuff. We don't talk about that Lake. You know if you're a manager of three people and you know and this is safe for you to do it affects the safety of those three people in a like. If they're also part of the community so. You're you're? You're fantastic. It was a jeter. Fantastic. we nailed it. I lean real. Did I'm like? Say Too much sometimes I share a Mike I forget that this is going to be heard by anybody but I think it's good I guided us in guided US directions where is very safe in good angles and like honest a mobile. Pretty Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for having me truly made my day made my week. Made my month. True. Really I'm like this brought me out of it. Yeah I. Hope Good Luck with one day I. Hope it goes. Thanks.

Mike Searching soccer Alana League Abby Jacobson baseball Graham Nash Jacob Marcia Paul F Tompkins Queiroz Cami basketball Cova Dennis roy Powell Amazon Scott Akron US softball
Captain Marvel Hot Takes, Detective Pikachu Trailer #2 - The Nerd Soup Podcast

The Nerd Soup Podcast

57:18 min | 2 years ago

Captain Marvel Hot Takes, Detective Pikachu Trailer #2 - The Nerd Soup Podcast

"I say once say it again freshest theme song ever. I think that's what we're going to use to open the podcast, even though it's after the fact, but that's how we came in JAMES BOND theme. Perfect Rita do that every week. Really like switch up things. That's when you guys used to do on the odd cast, right? Yeah. He said like that John would let it go for like two minutes. Yeah. And I would just be bump into song. And the people be like Hello also. To copyright video right off the fucking bat. Yeah. He's got in trouble. No, you're allowed to do that for like, you you can play for fifteen seconds this certain songs that they Al actually allow what does that look? We put types like that that song for the Ramsey clip in one of the revisited. Barry white. Yeah. They hit me with a hard copy. Right. Those thanksgiving too. They were like slot. You look working on thanksgiving chill out. Cranberries. The call holidays days off. Horo me with the craziest Bor before he was like, you don't lose. You win. You win. Are you learn you don't lose? That was like, oh, okay. He's like you taken L, but it's a lesson. American didn't like it. Yeah. Because it's not him. That said, I know. Yeah. Guys, have this weird. Perception of me that I'm some kind of wicked narcissists and spot on. No, it's not the name of your gamertag on north wicked and horses. Says lockdown that's a rat. Name right there. No. It's because national give you these lukewarm bars, and he, you know, hype it off so much and it just like an along gated. What way to thought out line that will never flow right in the song? Whoa. Whoa. Why are you attacking his lyrical abilities? I'm talking about his his profound saying that he had. Yeah. That was on the spot, and I was feeling down. I was a little depressed. And he he cheered me up. They were actually more motivational words rather than bars as you would say where did why why did you flip this to his rapping ability wasn't listening, and you said bar I and I thought it was like a rap thing. But. So you're a wicked narcissus. Yeah. He wasn't listening. I think that's example, right there. Only listening to your own words and your head. I like that name Bo narcissist. I feel like it's no we were talking the other day title, the fucking Nick sabre EP, and he was like, you know, I act like a dick in front of you guys act really arrogant and like a bad person. But but it down I am a bad person. What I set it all what I said at all. Okay. I can accept you more. And I said because because what I was saying you guys always like, oh, I'm selfish. I'm this on that. But I do it as like. Because it entertains me because it's fun. And I know it plays off. Well, and it's like it's not a bit. But it's fun. And I know I can fuck around with you guys. But like everyday life, you know, nicest guy in the world selects random strangers like waiters and holding doors. Also, your nicer to strangers than your nicer to us exactly how it should be. I can't I don't think they deserve. I can't. No, I you gotta put some fucking respect all my name. So people are just dick to everybody in general on nice everybody, you guys I can like fuck around with you like Nash you can't rap give up on your pathetic dream. That's funny. Holy shit. Put I. But obviously with his rapping career. But obviously if he's like if he wanted to do it out, it'd be like go for whatever support it. But right now, that's funny to me saying that because I know Nash comeback with something like oh fuck, you you and whatever he wants to say back. Say that to you, you all you are fucking you guys pick on Nash for no reason you and Ted pick on that for no reason. To against it again too. I think it's funny too. I think it's funny. I don't know if everyone else thinks, it's funny. But I think it's hilarious when I take Ted side. And he doesn't know not being serious. That's because they'll be arguing in the group chat. And I'll be like. Yeah. Teddy make some very very good points. Thank you. I honestly think his point suck. But the other day you guys snapped on me for real. She snapped on you for real and you snap back at him. And he's like he's like, why are you attacking me? And like you started it, and I'm like, I snap back me. And I said, I agree with Ted. 'cause I knew the put a guy standing up and you snapped. That's what I do. I play you need me. I play a role further. Let's say don't come on the podcast. I'm gonna absolutely embarrass you and ruin your life in front of everybody on the internet. That's funny to me because I don't mean it, but it Spurs a ghetto. I dunno. I got shook because I was like, you know, what it's done, but I say. Thing facilitate everybody else, and you come back and teddy gets at me. And it's just I just sit there and left my s off you know, now that fake you get mad. I get mad. Don't get Ned. I get mad at a lot of things mess around. Try. It's crazy. How on bulletproof Snowden ever comes at me? Well, respected person. I am right. Freaked out in your PlayStation before. All right. That's because you're you're terrible monopoly player in what you do and monopoly. That's that's something that we need to shout podcast. What you do monopoly is despicable. What do I do the way that you just manipulate the game? When you know, you're losing you don't play with your man without honor. When he he pulled off that. What do I do? I have no idea. Please explain because you seem to have concrete evidence of me being terrible monopoly player, but can't gonna lose annual trade your properties to the person that you wanna win just because you want spite me that's not true at all. So you you've done it before overrated your properties to person X. Our friend. I would know that someone else's closer up. See before me, even I'm close trade mine and get more money. No nesh excuse me to outlast. So I don't know. I don't agree with you. What you did that one game where you sold out where you knew your bankrupt. And what's the rule where you like him and him, our friend, our other friend used to do it. I think you know, who we're talking about here. Yes. They did that move where I was fear mean were furious with way, it's just not playing the game. Right. Where I can't remember because they so far away. But you did some despicable things. Yeah. Remember this was one where you didn't play the game. Right UN. Our another friend that I won't mention because it's just actually shouldn't even say his name. It's like old more. You can't. It's just when you ever play monopoly with him. No. Because it's not it's not the right way to play. It's not a teddy. No. But you'll talking about. Okay. You don't the point a monopolies not to come in less at his you're such a Lou? Yeah. But that's what they say to he's never one. But how many last place finishes advocate? Oh, yeah. The last time we played you ever come in. I I think once when you guys played in person that didn't count because I wasn't there. Okay. In person. That's how it's really supposed to play. That's has borough. Is it has? Yeah. Hasbro, that's how that's how it was meant to be played. And all saying is just it's not sheeting. If it helps you stay around for an extra couple turns. And now coming last dynasty going on for a little while. No, one cares. You're you don't do that to to not come. Okay. This is the topics that was a cold opening extended shit. We need to set a time limit on these things. Yeah. 'cause nobody wants to hear this. I think it was pretty entertaining. All right. Well, Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the nerd soup podcast. I am bowl. I'm here with Nash, Aaron you guys know us you guys have listened today. We're gonna be talking about a lot of topics in the world of movies and TV Oscars trailers people acting like whiny bitches on rotten tomatoes. We're getting into all that good stuff before we do want to let you guys know. You can listen to us on tunes at the new podcast soundcloud, nerd podcast. People have been saying that links not working we're gonna fix that link. That's and also Spotify. That's new book that try and get us on title. These still need. Do you need still need to sound cloud? Now, the Spotify because isn't that Android assessable assessable clouds like, you know, where all the great rappers? But I feel like you have to have you ever goes viral. What we applaud the fucking Spotify link. No, you tag Ellen. That's the thing. We're every every three while I'm going to do. No do get me on Ellen like teddy on Ellen because that'd be so much better semi cash. My premium Snapchat. She had premium snatch which is filtered movie takes. Say it was like not suitable for work drawings of our character. But as naked talking about like fucking avatar, it's not bad. Yeah. This. You guys need premium Snapchat. I'll do it. All right. So let's move on here. Yeah. Send us fan questions at nerd for you at g mail dot com. Nerds for you on Twitter nerds monkey on Twitter and Instagram and Instagram look at that I've been stepping Graham game because you challenge me. Well, you did better grammar twice and had heard Romy to grams and one day, you can't over Graham Nash on Twitter, Anthony, j q Nash and Instagram as well and Instagram do people wanna see that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's not bad just him like like, suits. That's actually just one pitcher because my favorite one posted on his suit looking off into the distance. I look on bond. Sean connery. Yeah, I'm Dumpty shat on the wall. That's the only one picture ever. My favorite adventure is when you have the guitar and you're looking off into the distance out of frame, you say might mess around. Write a song about you girl house. No is looking off into this. Yeah. So so he'll shut out the soil hate that kid well-dressed. The honestly I'm gonna plug his Instagram right now. So he'll bus the most well dressed kid that I know. So so I'll heal that's a little plug for you, my oldest friend and to you. Wow. Holy shit and the second oldest soil terrible person. Great reser. So what do you wanna talk about first? We captain marvel. Do you wanna start end with the Oscars the actions, I guess I'll keep they're like what are the what do they say? You start your second. Best song finish your best. All then I'll say that. I've never done a concert before. Because my rap dreams are rush. We can you know, Coosa guitar album. I don't know how to play either. So oh my God. We don't know any songs the hot the more pressing issue because the Oscars refuse away kind of died down. So we'll get to that later. But yeah, apparently rotten tomatoes. When you click movie hasn't came out yet. It has a percentage right, right? X amount of people percentage want to see said movie. And usually they're at like ninety five ninety eight. It's always in the night. I ninety get the wear eighty nine for Tyler Perry movie. Yeah. We're like and Shammala feel what did Nash Sousa was that? Go ahead. Oh that only in the comments going to be like, oh that Bo that's li- anybo cheeky. Anyway, you know, just gauge general community on who wants to see this movie usually pretty high because I feel like most people who don't wanna see movie don't really take time of day to say now, I don't wanna see this movie. You know, maybe a few couple percent do that. But for the most part, no one really cares enough to do that, except when it comes to captain more. There's a reoccurring trend here with these certain movies that get bombed by these specific groups on the internet by having a Black Panther, captain America. Right. No, no, Iran three. I don't remember no man's deal. I don't know. But having a Black Panther panther getting right pitcher nomination and making what one point three billion pretty penny. So gets happening again of captain marvel too. I think even more it's more I guess prevalent in the news and just on Twitter in general, but it like twenty seven percent wanna see. Wow. Yeah. So went down that low first of all the movies gonna make like one fifty opening weekend. So I can't wait for that opening weekend number because these people you you're doing nothing all you're doing is making yourselves look like week. And pathetic insecure individuals. It's who takes time out to actually do this. And I know people have have problems breed LARs because she's outspoken politically. That's Hollywood, man. Like people have their opinions. Chris evans. Yeah. On his Twitter. I'm sure he's he's a lot worse. Not not saying that his opinions are wrong. But I'm saying in terms of his him being out. Yeah. Well, they have that platform. So they try and take advantage of it. But there's nothing wrong with that. You know? I mean. Yeah. I mean, I don't care that like, I mean, you say something like, oh, I wanna see more journalists of killer covering my movie, and people are like, you hate white people know. Yeah. And it's like. I don't know. It's I kinda can see like all right? Hollywood people preaching about this off, you know, rich Hollywood doing all that. But even if I like, I didn't agree what they're saying. I wouldn't care so much to just create Ron tomatoes accounts and try to sabotage movie constantly tweeting about it making YouTube video at the YouTube video captain marvel tracking the percentage of getting those clicks. What do you? Clicks. But no, but not like that everything is every time two clicks down up, captain. Well, now twenty seven percent. Oh, I it's it's ridiculous. I mean who? Let's so funny too. Is that these people always complain about critics when the reviews come out before the movie, don't let the critics make up your mind for you. Go see the movie and judge it on your own. And now these people are doing the exact fucking opposite in which they're judging the movie before it's even come out. And that's why it's all fucking bullshit. When it comes to these groups that are so obsessed with these comic book movies in a way, where they make it so personal like, it's a personal attack on you. It's it's a fucking. It's a movie about a space woman that can shoot lasers from her hands pretty much. I mean, people are just making it. It's fucking even if you don't agree with Brie. Larson's saying, right. It's she strong believes she's very passionate about it. You know, they're they're it's a crime. She doing anything wrong. Like, she. She it's so stupid. It's like, all right, whatever, you don't have to have everything she says, but to get so worked up and bent out of shape out of it. I can't just I can't comprehend it and a lot of. They're saying like, oh, look look at look at the percentage. No one wants to see this movie. No, no one's out there who likes the movie who or who don't care about it. They're not making these accounts who up vote it to make sure the want the CS ninety percent. We don't care enough. But you have to make your accounts spread the word make tweets constantly talk about the movie make you through videos and try to derail this film that it's not gonna work. And I'm sure, you know, maybe it's not gonna be the best movie. I didn't see it. You know, the trailers were you know, some of them were some some of them are good some of them. Not so good that clip. We saw you know, really do anything for me, but to have such vitual hatred for a movie based on just what you perceive to be. It's sexism. That's what that's the big topic. Listen, and I know liberal say things that are ridiculous utterly ridiculous. Sometimes they do take it too far. But Bree Larson, listen like you said she strong in her beliefs. Seems nice sue every interview seems very like she is she's a good actress she's talented people trying to knocker down to that. She's had no good movies or no good performances room watch room, because I'm sure a lot of people who are downloading this movie have not seen room in even in twenty one Trump sheet twenty one jump street. She's really good. So I was like induction, right? I like main role twenty one jump street. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of meat. She's still young actress, but even Black Panther. When you look on Facebook on these pages like Adriana and screen rant and collider. When they post something about Black Panther this weekend winning an Oscar all the comments are like it's because it had black people. It's not because it's good. It's because you know, the academy's trying to cater to a certain group. It's that's all you see with these movies. And it's it's it's never it was I I liked the movie or didn't like the movie. Yeah. If you don't like Black Panther. This movie comes out, you don't like it. That's it's not like, oh, you're immediately racist or sexist. I like the movie might not have worked for you might have had problems shit. Then you might be. Exactly like if you wait for the movie to come out. Hey, I didn't like the the CGI black there. Wasn't that good the third act? I didn't really like I like, you know, kill manga was fine. You know, you actually dissect the movie and articulate your thoughts based on the knowledge that you have from seeing it, and you make your argument it didn't work for me fine. That's great. You know, maybe you don't have to like every movie you don't have to like every degree of all the critics every movie that's perfectly fine. But some rational like, oh, Black Panther was trash it shouldn't be best pitcher captain Marvel's going to bomb's gonna suck. Like, I mean based on everything moral is done just to have. That prediction. Do you like? And I think most people are gonna end up seeing it anyway, just to connect it to end game. 'cause I hope something big addi- like is like a giant chat room that all these people like getting together and like Twitter. I must have missed out. No. But like they're they're trying to do these reviews on a movie they haven't even seen yet. Based over kind of trailer thing they're not review is what you're saying that we don't want to see it does then leaving a comment like pre prolonged those want me to see this move at your so word worse, and that could come down to the point of trying to sabotage somebody's career just on her political thought. That's honestly what I can't see any other way unless they're people. But I don't know. Well, that's there's a section of that to DC immoral as always the rivalry. It feels like there's there's your support of the DC phantom that I don't know if there is a lot of crossover, and I think sometimes the media does. We gotta think he'll movie like Black Panther people. You can't devalue the cultural significance. Even if it is good or bad. You just haven't seen a movie like that before? And I think sometimes people are like whether it's good or bad. It doesn't matter that it's ninety percent. And African American cast. It's like it kinda does because this is unprecedented. And this is telling a group of people that you can star in this movie, and this movie can be successful internationally, and you can be a movie star. You can be superhero. These movies are important because we've had twenty M you movies and not one of them has starred a woman women are fifty percent of the population. This is significant for the MC you to have this character spearheading her own film. You can't devalue that you can't ignore that. You can't just make it. Oh, whether it's good or bad. Just judge it on that. No there is there is something extra to it. You know thing is to we forget sometimes like the Twitter internet community on YouTube where everyone a call it. It's so small compared to the general consensus of just the everyday person if you can this your local. Neighborhood and knock on doors. If you heard a captain marvel olds going all school here, if you heard a captain marvel how many people know or they'd be like buttons. Yeah. I saw the trailer. So you have any do you have any idea? What's going on Larson all the controversy? No idea. It's it's like, you know, it's amplified judge. Whether if my sister knows what's going on if I asked my sister. What do you think about the captain marvel rotten tomatoes controversy? She would say who who what? Now, I'm not shopping there anymore. I want fresh produce. Well, yeah, that's not what we're talking about. Let's move on. She thinks the more. I don't know how to workshop and only seen two let's kinda got like that's kind of ridiculous like the comparison to lead a battle Joel two completely different films. And it's like, oh, this is how you should make a, you know, female lead. Why do you have to compare two different movies? They had they're going for different things. They want to be there. They have their own themes. They have to ain't marvel. Yeah. Like, it's not the same platform like adulation Salita battle angel to lead a battle inch. But I'm saying when they make that comparison, it is different when it's a woman leading marvel film. It's the biggest movie franchise in the world. But I'm saying they were going for different things trying to do. That's film. You know, just because they have to female es in some kind of zero zero score because critics what fifty nine percent. Yeah, they're saying all the white male critics which I saw that was. What a tear logic. Did these people have it's ridiculous, but not wanna do this anymore? I want to get off Twitter. Sometimes I hate Twitter. Then I'll see like a me. And I'm like, that's fucking hilarious. I'm like I needed that. America, the memes. It shouldn't be free Twitter should not be free. That's how funny it is. At time. We don't we don't serve Twitter is not free. Excuse me. It's not free. Do you pay for your internet connection? If you're gonna go there like technically, it's not free. Like you have to you can't just get Twitter. No way. Well, net neutrality is gonna make all those fucking things thing. I heard about that. That's what you should be knocking on doors about can you name a supreme court Justice. Not can you name who's playing captain marvel shit? Doesn't matter it really I would slam the door. I don't know the answer you can't name one. No. No, no. I can't. I don't care about that stuff. They don't care about me. I don't care about you. So goes, she really stick it to the men going to lay the cold opening if like big brothers always watching someone knocked on my door listening try to sell me for survey. I would actually do it. Do you do that? Like, so not to my out here the mail. I just can't be like roots at all. No, no. I can't. But they see you. I just close the door. Only the only I'll be rude to strangers is driving. I tell road rage. But most people can't drive, and they deserve to be honked at and yelled at and it's really it just part of the New York DNA though. Yeah. I think that just comes when you're who are unruly in a movie theater. I will fuck in lash out on you. Yeah. You do that. And it makes me uncomfortable. It makes me a colorful that people think it's socially acceptable to fuckin- have full length conversations on their phones and out loud in a movie theater. All right. Let's move on to our next door here. What do you wanna talk about next? Should we talk about the army hammer Batman, or is that are we to far removed who cares? What are you Matt Damon Dannatt? Now's my francesa. Did you see that? He was reacting to green book winning best pitcher. And he's I know it was like is a really good movie was about a guy who like y'all old school like New York. And he's like he's he's trying to learn he's learning about these different people. And it goes a black man who happens to be gay, and he's going around and this whole time talking with the family, and he's you know, he's very good family. Ran a very good people. And they cut in scenes of Tony lips family saying like terrible racist things, and they keep replaying. Good friends. He has a good family around him. They'll do another incredibly racist taking Italian good, really, really good, friends and family. They'll do another one was. So I think that clip exemplifies the problem that people have with this movie is that people like, Mike francesa. That's what they take away from it. We need more reviews from people like that francesa is one of the. One of those absolutely hate. But boy is he entertaining entertaining. He's not like a whole show the Alex Jones sports. Yeah. But when you go on Twitter and see like what did he do today? It's like this guy on house just absence guy is fucking Fred. He went to go talk about the NFL draft as started scrolling through all the players in a draft heating, no one name. So he was going to talk about. All right. Let's use going here. So-called amount. Markets Russell so-called Cohn at the Robert Kraft, and Mike you ever go to one of these places. Well, that's about sue's people call them, and they fuck with them because they know that he's gonna play along with it that he can't tell the difference troll. All he does that you can. Wait in line for two hours that went Calipari called him. And Calipari was saying, oh, what are you? Why? Are you always saying Giancarlo? He's out good at X knows. He's a he's a good exit knows, you know, he's a good motivator. But he's not good at exit. He's he's good at exit good at exit those, and they're just going back and forth is no idea that you're Ceska sounds like a great rocky impression. Hey. X knows. That's the only impression. How could you of rocky? Who's who's the other guy that I do? I can do the mareo. Let's go. Yeah. And. Battle bachelor. Yeah. Nail my pressure game is pretty weak. What why are we talking about Francis? Let's talk about the Oscars hammer. What the hell? You know what I don't realization. So it was like live live storing my reactions, and I was looking back the next day. I'm like, I'm like a fucking nerdy. Michael Rapaport, and I never been so depressing. My life go to the group book win to fuck it green book. Like, wow, I need this up. It was weird songs met a Nash a couple of buddies. And I'm like, yeah. I did invite you. National. I'm like, all right. I'm gonna pretty big sized bottle on with the intention of having a couple of glasses. Anyone else wants them feel free? And if I don't finish it'll put the cork back in either leave it at my buddy sow so I'll take it home with you know, this options here I fuck in polish off by like supporting actor. It was wasn't that the first category. No, supporting actress was and I'm like. I was looking a mental pretzel next like two days. I don't get hung over anymore. But I'm just fucking out of it wind sometimes takes me out of it. The next wine is the worst hangover. You need to drink other things with one they were subject. I don't drink often. But when I do like that only have one glass fucking polishing off the whole bottle. I think I'm gonna go my birthday, and after that until four July birthday, maybe get a reading of fucking biography me. Now, it's this weekend. I was actually thinking of her as this weekend. Yeah. But it was actually thinking of putting it on my Twitter or something else you born March second one of those this third. Thanks able twenty three you make out. Maybe but I was thinking of. My birthday birthday on my Twitter. Something else I have to birthdays out everyone else. Knowing all my birthday on my family and friends and like in October out on the super day. They'll be like my two birthdays and one year, but what is the soups Bertha, you guys kind of blew it kind of birthday. I can look it up right now. I think it's March. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's March be inconsistent video that we knew. Deleted. I almost wish that I would have saved the video before we deleted it that first one that we ever posted. It was just so off brand is is used to in teddy talking about like just the world. Don't even. Not not not what spacemen, you know. Like what's out there? Yeah. Well, I thought honestly about the Oscars. I'm all in for no host huge fan of that was. Yeah, it was a big fan of no huge fan. There is a time around. I'm like, I don't even really notice a host. But Amy Poehler my Rudolph and Tina Fey I wish they would have stayed fucking hilarious. Abraham areas. I kinda was digging. Mike Myers March twelve soup birthday. Wow. That's coming up. Yeah. Yeah. It's coming up. What should we do? Nothing. Kagan wine. Keagan hell you can bit. When they came out with the the favourite like attire all the different like costume designs on that was fun. Listen McCarthy with all the rabbits. Yeah. On the on her dress. That was yeah. No mind. No host. I don't think a host would have took anything away from it. It was. Yes. You know, what it is the host get the host for the monologue because that's essentially what Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, and my Rudolph did they gave us a mini monologue. And then it was the rest of the show. It was just about the performances and the awards. That's what you need get the host to do the ten minute monologue. But like when Kimmel hosts in and he does all these skits where he's bringing people to you know, the other movie theaters of their ordering pizza peanut butter jellies. Yeah. It's on entertaining on crystals across I think the best hosting that. I've seen over the last Ellen was great. And the odds are in general, no for the Oscars, and Chris rock was really good when he hosted a couple years ago because he was just there to deliver his jokes. And there wasn't a lot of stupid bits. Even Seth MacFarlane. I liked his bits when he did it. But a lot of people didn't like him because you know, his brand of humor didn't really take to it. And that was two thousand twelve imagine. Now, that's crazy that was seven years ago. But yeah, I'm with you. I prefer no host. I mean, Tina Fey and Amy Poehler Golden Globes were awesome, Ricky surveys to he he's like they would never get him for the Oscars. No, he he's a shoot. Yeah. Us funny, though, he made. I was actually watching just a bunch of monologues ever do that like an rabbit. All they've got his all his Golden Globe monologue video his Mel Gibson softwares. Yeah. I think he's done twice tuna roll. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever he did. He was pretty good to Kim members Kimmel. I just don't like the bits now. Yeah. Kimmel more Fallon. Off kimmel. I like so great gear you ever see the game at carpet. Oh, yeah. It's funny gamma with LeBron James is the best. Lebron LeBron JR. I gotta ask. Oh boy. Bradley Cooper, lady Gaga. They're bumping uglies. Right. They were fucking day love. Oh my God. There's one point where I thought she was going in for it. What is girlfriend is baby there? I it's so happens to give the person trying to drink something. He kept shaking. Yes rally. Cooper's wife watching lady Gaga. I fuck. Your husband, Dan. They're like she deserves an award for watching that. It so happens that she breaks off the engagement right around the time that this movies being made. I they gotta be banging behind closed doors. Now, what people don't realize about all that. I love celebrity gossip I've never openly said that there were rumors couple months. Go look at Cooper Cooper was considering breaking it off with with his wife and that he and Gaga we're in love shit. So fucking Nate up every like go to grocery store and see like, oh, Kim dashing. Now, those ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that you see that they'll Harran no want there. And we were all freaking out. What's going on there? I watched it like ten times that microchip by Bradley Cooper. Oh, those are good. I was very nervous when he started singing. And then I was like, oh, he's good. Oh, yeah. I knew that. But it wasn't just movie magic. But she's she's so much better. Oh, yeah. That's what we were talking about to. Remember? He is an actor. Right. Yeah. People. I was with that was like what's up with her though, lady Gaga when she like? Oh my God. I never thought I was gonna happy. But she's she's she's dragging it dragging a little let it be happy. She finally she wanted award. She's very excited. She was WADA hard Wade into it. What Taylor Taylor swift knew she was going to win one ward? Schick, did you my name you fucking tell us what I fucking. I'm just saying she knew gonna win new. You don't know you can win put a lot of hard work to make these albums Taylor swift guy. Yeah. The night when county interrupted her because he'll see that's. That's. Who side were you on? It was it was mutually beneficial for both parties they both. Both were able to come back from it in their own ways, Taylor swift gained more even more popularity Connie had a little redemption to apologize. And everyone's like oh. And also said I can still sexy. Sexier? Top of the world slow you watch your fucking mouth. Now, she put on an act, but like Coleman speech that was genuine emotion because she didn't think that she was also an actor. So, hey, maybe. Well, lady, I guess that's what they tell me now. And I thought that she definitely could have one knowledge Kalman L of that speech. Yeah. When she was like, oh my God. I'm so happy. This is never going to happen again. And that was that was the biggest surprise of the night because everybody thought it was going to Glenn Close, but her performance in the favorite, man. So well deserved. I think the only two awards had a problem with were original screenplay. I think the favorite was such a better screenplay than green book. I mean, how it was. It was wasn't even close in my opinion and best pitcher. I mean, I I liked me. Book was I think it was. I can't believe those cowards didn't give it to Roma. You'd have had fucking for us. Cars could have had five at the other three. Right. Three five boy. You know, they got pissed. Yeah. That was try to walk out. And they wouldn't let him he said he was like reacting like, he would've bad call to Gordon. Elements might actually weird 'cause I stopped trusting spike Lee's opinion when he said Renaldo Bachman was going to be a sleeper when he got picked eight and they never gave him a chance. He's like he's a sleeper sleeper like I just bike. This guy's going to be asleep. Or he's NBS thought any fucking stunk. Will Spike Lee curses, the Knicks? That's the Knicks curse. And nobody wants to admit it. It's this. What do you mean? No. He's actively hurt the Knicks with the whole Reggie Miller thing at look the night that he's not there. They can beat the Spurs at home coincidence. That's a bad thing. Though. You want them to lose to disperse to get a better terrific. So now these games they could start winning because now the bad teams are starting to win as well. So it's kind of like, yeah. You win one. I win one show glimpses. They won last night. Again. I'm like, what are you? Doing henry. Ellison is nice. He he is. Yeah. Yeah. They contract, and it's been going on fucking triple double last night. Trees, I on Durant. Oh my God. Mitchell Robinson such stud. Yeah. But let's talk about Koran best cinematographer. Best director first person to ever do that in the history of film, and it's so well deserved to because that movie was fantastic. And I think this year there were a lot of movies. There were a lot of nominees that I felt didn't belong but hin one of my friends is. Romo is good. Like, it's so sad. I don't know. I wanted to fucking punch him in the face like make the movie, let's let's let's hear to your emotional enjoyment. Like come on just movie said as a mean it shouldn't win. I hate normal people and it ended on a on a high note Roma. It did. Looking up better. Sweet. Bittersweet? But it was like, you know, life goes on. Data like those everything before that was kind of like, oh, no before that. It was really brutal. Now, it's a sad movie. And I think, but he said it was good, right? Yeah. But punch pitcher really like my friends. Okay. Such a nice guy. I'm just glad bohemian rhapsody didn't win and best editing for that movie. That was a joke to of. Yeah. So listed jokes. And everyone plays that. That clip of little fingers and dad eighty sometimes somebody said that there's more cuts in that clip than Kubrick's whole career. So and said bohemian rhapsody really went Oscars for tick tock. So true. Like sound editing? They just played queens lungs. That's I disagree on that the way they actually manufactured. Let's sound editing. Well, whatever whatever sound whatever they want sound mixing, right. But the way the apparently, they took freddy's voice Romney's voice and youtuber who things I if you listen to this guy. He's fucking incredible. And they mix it all together to create a satellite. Freddie. Mercury. But I don't know. All right. I hope so. Man. I hope so. Malik winning for best actor. Somebody was like, wow, Christian bills transformed into Rami Malik. And he's giving his acceptance. Love said, I thought bail should have one. But I like ramming mount I think he seems like such a nice humble guy. Like, he's still remember when he went for mister robot. I'd like to see Cheney throws hat in the ring those cowboy hat in the ring for twenty twenty chain. Yeah. Country needs him. Cushy Christian bale and SNL Christian bale as Cheney running for president Cheney's the world. Yeah. Has changed. The president. No, no, let's not do that. But how does he win best actor for a guy that didn't even sing? Like, I get it. You're acting. That's a big elemental leave out the clip that they played with him lip synching. Yeah. That's a big element to leave out. While Bradley Cooper. He's not a musician by any stretch of imaginary stretch of imagine. You know what I'm saying? I do I do you really nice. No. But I mean, come on. He saw of an imaginary. That's an album. Yeah. That that sounds like a Beatles. Song does linzie, and then you got basically Christian bale turning into Dick Cheney both boy. But no he doesn't sing in any acts. Like, Freddie, Jamie green. Boy. Right. Yeah. That bill. Yeah. So both my voice. Yeah. Boy, you're the weirdest boys. Yeah. So I think you're the only person in the world who has Michelle Obama's autobiography and Dick Cheney's. Well, I like powerful people. It's just the weird dynamic. They sit right next to each other to facing each other. You respect you. Kind of like an anchorman despise. You dot do. I respect you. That's exactly I bet Cheney. Well, I love the relationship that Bush and Michelle Obama have that he's always sneaking candy like he's he's a worker middle. But he's gotten Vince. I didn't know what he was doing. Now. The cello. You have what the hell Oscars Oscars who else one Regina king? That was cool that was such a stat quote at category too. I wouldn't care if any of those spiders. Yeah. Hell, yeah. Mercia ali. That was probably the biggest lock tonight. You know? He was a D one basketball player. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Saint Mary's played his highlights anyone for that layup, and he just finger old it instead of dumping and everybody's like his highlights. He had the jelly. He did jelly fan. Yeah. What a night for that guy wins a second Oscar and then during his acceptance speech he's fucking solving murder mysteries on HBO, which we didn't talk about true. Detective vincent. I loved it behind him in the online. He's the best Hirsch Lally. He is really really good. Yeah. He he might be one of my favorite not a young actor like forty five years old. But he's he's slowly creeping up into Bo's top five. That is it changes every day. I'll try to guess. Chet, of course, as Marshall on ener or no not yet. Nice creeping things creeping he's. Listen, Christian bale. Okay. Deal. No, I feel like last month. He probably was in your town last month. He was in my phantom. Thread review was motto. It's forgetting a big dog. Oh, no, you're forgetting my favorite actor. Who's that? Right now, capelin shutters. Anthony hopkins. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hotman saw great Twitter. He's always giving those like inspirational message. God if I had to have like, a a mind from my voice for my mind, my conscious Antioch. There was a point in my life. Where I my thoughts were all Hopkins voice. And then I was like this is probably not right. I should probably stop doing. Yeah. That's what he started name my top five. I don't even know who you are. I don't know even know your birthday, Amy Adams is definitely up there. It's one lent number. Maybe who knows I don't know. You don't really talk about your favorites. Emma stone. No, she was in the favorite. How? I don't know you don't really talk about them. So for grace Ben Affleck. No, I'm just throw name. I don't even know me David Spade. Like, oh you like the Sandler crew, right? Kevin fuck out of you. Semi good actor. Yeah. Actually. Let's not sully name because of his associate favorite actor besides Leo because you just to like. Yeah. Michael favorite, Michael, Shan? It's probably good. He's so good and everything that's all give you Jackie was phenomenal. You should be taught us last time. Michael Shannon detective. Yeah. It's it's got to happen, right? He would have been a good Russ Cole. I miss Russ coal got a super team. My her Sheila Russell Sherlock. Yeah. Do we have anything more to talk about with the Oscars? No overall, great show to we stop the podcast we've been going for a while here. I mean, Chris Hemsworth. We've we missed the news L detective Pika Jew. All right. So the last story that we have here today is thinking fan questions or should we go to fan questions? We'll bring in this story. And then we'll take some facts. Okay. We've got some -tective bigotry the second trailer. What'd you guys think? I loved it. I think Ron Reynolds at speak achieve is despite on. It's so good, right? The voice castings amazing. What a twist twisty get to see mute to everybody's freaking out about Muteia. What's he doing there? Either should something. Guy. They should say that for the money. You're mad about the mmu to reveal come on guys. He's trailers giving away too much. Now looks pleasant. You know, it was a good time. This scary ones. Mr. mimes a little scary. Yes. Some of them are getting liquor. A little scary talk. Yeah. Little uncanny valley. They used to call me. Staying in care. That's over about me. -lica- tongue. No. But they there's some creepy ones. But then it looks pretty cool chart looks pretty cool to look pretty cool. I forgot he's in the gen two. He's got it looks like like a teacup kind of he's at the bar. He's looking at Pika chew. They actually made me mad of it. Like a stall year. Yeah. I forget his name is wanting to take another look at you. Yeah. I mean trailer the first Schoeller was like all right. Let's see what we got here. But I like this trailer thought a set the tone of the movie, I think Ryan Reynolds is any it's not any veto happy. Try reynolds. I'm like fucking old man when someone threw at us today, and it's like L pick one of these three Pokemon is your starter. Mike. I don't know anyth- fucking. They just came out with a new game today. I'll really yes. And I think that's why we're such garage with that answer. I'll say I don't know any of these elites spell out. I don't know you said ID K, disrespectful all any fucking, right. This guy of biography. What is with you biographies? I'm reading is reading your biography times like a word. It's you my head. It's like the woods day on Koa, like the Nash biogeography. Well, no 'cause I was gonna wicked narcissus. It's fucking good. Like that. That is good. But I said, I don't care cute as peak. A oh talk about my top five. He's number three on my top five fictional characters. Can you guess Pika CHU? Yeah. He's number three. You'll always judge my top five characters is there. So fucking out of nowhere. And they're they change like nonstop. No. I have my legit top five favourite fictional characters. This doesn't change his spun Roberts guy off there. No, no. You know, my character change one Batman to iota three Pika chew four Dale Cooper five. I don't know five. Do you just have four? Okay. Go at a mount Rushmore. Anybody anybody that starts off with aggress type Pokemon get help simple that while I was actually going to pick the grass side because kind of like a little monkey would I? Tail and like a little cute little because you're not picking it for the grass type you're picking it for the look at self monkey monkey. So I'm there to market. So I gotta pay pick my guy. So, and I didn't know any of these guys even though he was grass I wonder what with him who did you go with in the original in the original? I was always a squirrel, squirrel. Always. I'm a charming house feel not. Never ball before. I can't remember a time that I let myself do that. It's weird. So weird. I'm not even kidding that. So we are source cute though, as cool, but not for me not enough me dog take a hike. I used to love chart as a kid that was my favorite. But the new one the new kind of freaky. It's too many. They should've kept it at one fifty Lisa love that rat. Oh, yeah. I can't remember site that that should use the bomb trailer looks good. I g I looks good enough. Does it just a little scary? Some of them are, but I could take and teddy made an appearance in a movie too. Oh, yes. No lax, right? Doro? Circling teddy Totoro TOTO. All right. This question ear Vanna questions. Yeah. It's comes from sully at sell sell five thousand. No, it's not the fucking pilot. Oh, you're solely man. Michael wrap. My have a full circle baby. Sorry, gone so hungry. What was the worst job? You guys have ever had. Abeche jobs up there. I was a a waiter. Fucking hated Tom. I got fired. Wrote the elevator. I didn't get fired elevator. I didn't get fired. You got fine. I didn't get fire always not invited back. It was a summer job during college. First couple years, you're on strike. Yeah. So I think sorted in high school comeback into summers. Make some extra money to go back to college. Pretty damn good waiter. You know, I think I nailed it. People. Just terrible terrible. Terrible mean people out there that just have no. It's that stuff men, but you're nice to strangers on the has it going guys. Like what what's going on? You know, we're talking we're talking. I get some pretty good tips. Just space on you know, my, general charisma. But some people fucking stick. But yeah, we had an elevator because it was the big stairway to get to the restaurant and some people needed the elevator to get up. And it's one of those old fucking old. Elevators wasn't like a new like fucking like a good elevate. Terrible fucking elevator. And so I brought to many people in the go up 'cause I was lazy and had tables. You don't send a fucking waiter as so many tables, go get people in the elevator. Because I'm trying to rush on my got everybody in the fucking thing. I need to I need to go back to work. I need to refill some ice. Teas, you know. Sunshine, it'll make a living here. Right. So I think the whole the whole group into the elevator. Go out goes up like two feet and fucking stops. And stuck in the elevator. And the whole thing broke an order to fix it. Take it apart. They're the take out the I guess, whatever. Makes it go up. They'd like snap. Something elevator. Fucking drops. Like, the good three feet and yellow broke knitting in a new one, but I've worked for the rest of the summer when I XE come back next year. No well. That's that doesn't sound good. Charlie cut. You just real quick. Hey, what's going on? Click should a call out of talk to you. I feel bad. Did a flower shop, and I've completely erased it from memory, just pure torture. You know, what job was actually pretty fun organ target. He's mylan. I knew. Funny story. I was with Nash when he called the quit. Oh, man. Please. So Kohl's target and. Now, tell me if you don't wanna keep it in but can in he's like because national panic attacks, but I used to get panic attacks. Yes are used to get like little clip panic attacks. So he used that excuse even though that wasn't the reason why as an excuse to quit target, and you really calling us over the phone quit. The like before you coming in Sagale, these panic attacks. And like all right foot. You know, if you do this right now, you'll never be able to work another target again. So yeah, that's me. So. No. Because he's like, yeah. You call. I call them. You know, like, I'm getting these panic attacks and stuff and. Like I said, but then he's like, you know, if you quit right now that means you can never work here again target. He's like, yeah. I'm again. I'm all right with that. Yeah. It's fine. It's fine. By me. Why did you lack out loud? You wanna quick because it worked and he just didn't wanna go. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. The reason for quitting any job. Really? Yeah. I just didn't wanna go. I had to be there in an hour. I was with everybody. I think you know, what fuck this. I can always just find new job. All right. This question year from Kedah Kate Joe one to Kate. If there was a nerd suit movie, which actors would play bow iron, Ted, national Orissa, my grandma she's very unreliable. 'cause sometimes she's like. Yeah. I think shot a butter me up. But she said it looked like deputy L. And I was like fuck I was like the best week of my life. I just like good looking guy. And then one time she told me I looked like the Boston bomber. So I don't really know what I'm going was he cute. I don't think. So. So I pretty ride range, and I don't know. I think I'm being racist. Does she know that you're that? You are grandma. Little Indian boy. Gotten before Drake. Fuck you. I swear to God I've got in the van those two which so weird. There's a pitcher. I have where I'm outside shoveling all bundled up in like, a, you know, knit hat Hodie. And everybody tells me in that picture look like Johnson, but just in that pitcher. So I almost want to like make that like my Tinder profile. It's my one John snow pitch immediately a hundred and then crickets. And five hundred more likes cricket. Same guy. People love them. Crickets. I don't know who will play Mercer. She kind of looks like it's it's funny in homecoming zendaya looks like Meriva. That's what Marissa's looks like all the time. I see you're playing old re plaza that her name all of you. Pause. It from parks and rec, yeah. Yeah. I could see there was cast up. Right. Yeah. The cast up. So I think. Kissing up. And I'm like Jesse Palmer. Jesse plummets teddy. That that's. John goodman. Just. All these other young actors, John Goodman. Let me ask you this one on the podcast. Didn't get no one teddy. Teddy's say, Bradley Cooper. Oh, yeah. We did answer this. I'm going back for the fucking questions. And I asked this question twice like a hundred and twenty of them. And I've asked the same question twice. I don't know. Brad cooper. Yeah. That's right. It did was that on a podcast tweeted about it. But I don't know if that was we need to fix our continuity. Oh, this is good question from Edward wadded. Walter, white leave gray matter. Did you guys ever have any theories about this? Gray matter the company that is ex-girlfriend started. Okay. With Elliot wasn't. It wasn't it for the fact that like she didn't want to be with him. So I ki- kind of shoes trying to get away from our wasn't it somewhere along the lines of that. They never explicitly say why? But they have they have the couple scenes together and season one. And then they have the scene I think it season four when they go out to dinner together. Right. And it always seemed I read theories to that her family was rich, and that Walter white always felt very insecure. And that he never felt like he was good enough for her. So he sold his shares. And obviously there was this other person that kind of got in the middle of them. I forget his name is his name, Elliot. It is. Yeah. Guys years or? Ears. Why fi signals? But you look at Walter White's personality was very prideful man and even season one wouldn't put aside his pride to take their money. And obviously there was that history there. So something tells me that it was probably she probably did something to him hurt him in some way. And he just wasn't able to reconcile and that he sold his shares for what like three thousand dollars something like that. Yeah. Then he would have been a billionaire. Yeah. I thought it had something to do with that relationship. But let's one of the interesting parts about his backstory that they leave out and fence Gilgen does that a lot where it's what you don't know. Makes it more interesting, Erin. Yeah. How are you? Good on Twitter. On twitter. I don't really care about the question. Oh. I don't know honestly nicest Rangers. You have just been I don't care about his quote like I don't care that he cared about him. I I don't know enough about breaking bed or like I want you to while. So I don't know nothing to add. I'm sure you guys handle it perfectly fine. I know you guys talk about it on the last podcast. I hate the idea that they have in the movie. Yeah. You've talked about this before on the. Hate it. Just a real quick. Do you want to elaborate on your wrong opinion? So you want it? No. I just real simple. Breaking bad. Breaking bad was one of the perfect shows that ended at the right point. They didn't overextend you could even make an argument that they extended with bringing the ankle in. We're getting into business. I told his perfect shows always get knocked for trying to go too long. And I think they figured it out and did a perfect. And now, I think they're getting to the level where they're gonna fucking ruin the show. It is a perfect show from beginning to end, it's insane. And I always say that game thrones hits higher highs. But breaking bad was more consistent beginning to end because there's no drop off in any season. It just gets better better better better. And that's a fair point. You don't wanna come in and Selley what you have you have a masterpiece here. But Vince Gillian is a fucking genius. And everything that guy does there's angle like AMC owned the rights, and they were just like, oh, we're going to make a sequel just to make money, but it's been going and he's back. Yes. So. Yeah. Trust that the comp- conspiracy theories that he's on don't tell us enough. South hanging out with fucking teddy. No, no, well, probably people talk filling your heads with nonsense. It's so funny that I actually start to believe it. You know? All right. This question here for Michael Eric Devon best film of the nineties nineties. Great era, one of the great Ariza. And it's so funny seventy s legendary Erin Americans film and in the eighties is the eighties and the nineties where it's like, hey, we're back in the seventies bullshit again put Tang.

Twitter Oscars Graham Nash Dick Cheney captain marvel Bo Spurs Bree Larson Ellen Bradley Cooper Barry white YouTube Tina Fey Ted Anthony hopkins Christian bale Al Amy Poehler
Amanpour: Kori Schake, Alistair Burt, David Crosby and Jamil Jivani

Amanpour

57:35 min | 1 year ago

Amanpour: Kori Schake, Alistair Burt, David Crosby and Jamil Jivani

"It's an age of your seat. Thrill ride that will change overseas forever. The movies Sundays Nine P._M.. On C._N._N.. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses visits any today at Xeni Dot dot com slash C._N._N.. Hello everyone and welcome to Oman for his what's coming up. We'll stay focused on our agenda and we won't get caught slipped him because all of this is a distraction is Donald Trump's latest twitter storm hiding failing foreign policy frank discussion on Iran North Korea and whether a brexit Britain will still pull its weight then. Do you ever wonder why you are still alive. Don't rock and roll music legend. David crosby joins us how devastating personal life inspired his incredible music that feeling of isolation `isolation that these groups are preying on. I felt that I know what that's like to feel hopeless. Djamil Giovanni tells Michelle Martin how he survived a tough childhood and why so many young men a seduced by violent movements welcome to the program everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour on poor in London another day another new cycle that's been dominated by president trump's attacks on four progressive Democrats who are known as the squad creating uproar and even seeing the U._S. House passing resolution condemning the president's comments <music> as racist but is this all presidential smokescreen that certainly seems to be the opinion of the congresswoman themselves who said this in a joint interview on C._B._S.. I'm dealing with the biggest bully I've ever had to into with my lifetime and trying to push back on that and trying to do the job that we all been sent here to do which is centered around the people at home. <hes> this is a distraction. This is a distraction. This is a disruption on our leading and legislating living in governing indeed if the president's tweets are distracting his signature foreign policy plans struggling the love affair with Kim Jon Turning Sour is North Korea threatens to call off the suspension of nuclear and long range missile test the tactic of maximum pressure on Iran failing to deliver major results and all the while one of America's most reliable allies on these issues Britain continues to veer towards a chaotic no ordeal brexit. I've been getting some answers on where this is all headed from Alastair Bird formerly Britain's Middle East Minister and from U._S.. Foreign Policy Expert Corey shock it now deputy head of the International Institute for Strategic Studies. Welcome to you both Corey. Let me ask you the first question since you're sitting right here next to me and it is about the United States response to Iran sex state POMPEO president trump believe that their strategy of maximum pressure China is working against Iran but that seems to have been thrown out the window. Let me just play what the Secretary of state said for the first time the Iranians have said that they're prepared to negotiate about their missile program and so we will have this opportunity. I hope if we continue then you'd execute our strategy appropriate. We'll have this opportunity negotiated deal that will actually prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon in the same way that the previous agreement had no chance of actually doing the only problem is Iran's foreign minister said no that is complete misinterpretation of what I said we will not negotiate on missiles until sanctions or what just tell me. Where is the United States in its campaign with Iran well? I think statements like Secretary of State Pompeii Oh and John Bolton in the national security advisor make make it actually harder for the administration to achieve at school so it makes it harder for Iran to make the kind of compromises that the administration's looking for them to have because <hes> because they're talking talking loudly and carrying a small stick the president has just demonstrated a couple of weeks ago that he was unwilling to go ahead with a retaliatory strikes so if I were Iran I would be thinking the administration ministration has a strategy based on the ultimate use of force that the president of the United States isn't going to carry out okay so that's really interesting Alastair Bird. You were the former minister you dealt with this region for so long. It has moved a little bit from from Oh my goodness. We thought we were going to war to now. How does president trump try to negotiations which he says he wants? What do you see it from the British and European point of view right now well firstly we start from a position of some bewilderment because if you wanted to make sure Iran didn't move towards a nuclear weapon you have an agreement that ensured that I am with others including those in State Department negotiated that agreement who are puzzled that at the United States moved away from something which had Iran in a non nuclear arms box into something more dangerous now? I also don't believe that maximum pressure on its own is the as the only club in the in the Gulf back actually works. You've got to have something that enables you to progress further and if you read William Burns is memoir if you look at how patiently relationships were built up in order to enable around to move with no concession concession as to what around is doing the region that is not good you realize the way to do it is to have a relationship with them to work with them and to build up a sense that nobody wants war. So what are the practical steps. You can take to start to the scale and I think what we need to see is that chapter opening up and it doesn't really matter how it's done but that chapter of talking and enabling both sides to crime a bit of a ladder is really necessary now so William Burns you mentioned the longtime State Department apartment who who served bipartisan use administrations and was one of the first to engage in the secret talks with Iran before the nuclear deal was struck now to what you both said. What is the plan? How do you de-escalate? How do you actually achieve your goals? This is what the Iranian president has said in regard to maximum pressure or ready when the big power is a bully well then we have to stand up to it must stopping bully. We've always believed in talks always right this hour right this moment if they stopped the oppression if they stop the belligerents if they lift sanctions returned to the table returned to logic we already so that's a direct message corey sorry to the president of the United States. Can I ask you before turning to Alyssa because I think there's a little bit of a difference between the U._S.. And the European view of how this current crisis started the U._S. feels it started how this this crisis in the Persian Gulf the trump administration's theory of the case is the Obama Administration never to have signed the agreement without also incorporating all other elements of Iran's bad behavior. The European perspective is that the trump administration created this current round of the crisis by not taking the Iranian nuclear agreement and then moving forward to work on these other things. I wonder whether you agree with that Alicea in Brussels when all these talks are being held trying to figure out what's going on foreign ministers. They do actually believe that this current spike in crisis has been caused by the U._S. pulling out and establishing sanctions again yes broadly. I mean the view that the J._C._p.. Away was the best deal that could be negotiated time. We all know didn't embrace everything but it was a start and if you look at how difficult that elevated had been to to achieve and that was quite a big thing if you look what is being delivered through that the the fissile material that's been shipped out the change in the heavy water reactor at Iraq there are things the Iranian state did in response to that deal that must have been very difficult for them to to do so of course he didn't cover everything pulling out of the deal for whatever reason and the does seem to me an element of spite in relation to WHO created the deal in the first place meant that for some time now the Americans in the rains and been talking past each other items that we can get back to anything unless there is some private quiet channel because neither side is going to respond to the public rhetoric of of each other and publicly climbed down. I was sorry that Iran rejected the opportunity of getting into talks but that may be isn't the end of it and do remember that the changes Iran as making in its attitude to the deal are quite small and their calculated it that trying to provide an opportunity for people to get back into the deal that's why they haven't done the whole haugen thrown it out completely because they know that they should stay within the terms of the deal otherwise it brings the Europeans into sanctions so there there's an opportunity but I think the next thing is quiet. Channel has to be established because if you're going to get the parties together and again it won't be through the public displays it will beast through something quieter. Look back at the history see how it was done before and learn if they want to because it seems right now the everything looks like it's going to be opposite direction of learning from the past and these these diplomatic moves of the PAS. I just WanNa play something that president macro told me because and this it was a couple of years ago but he basically framed Iran within the North Korea context and at the time North Korea will is still does has nuclear weapons North Korea is very good illustration of a what if an oil you for nuclear deal with Iran why because we stopped everything with North Korea years and years ago we stopped any monitoring any discussions with them and what's a result said we'll probably really get on with them so my position for Iran visit prisons from West to say look at the situation on North Korea. I don't want to replicate sixty situation with Iran so this is really very important because he he is saying that North Korea can behave how it wants because it has nuclear weapons and Iran is potentially learning right now that maybe it might have to pull that trigger to at least have them in order needed to be treated seriously. How worried are you corey and also you Alastair that potentially down the line? Iran might say well hang on a second trump is having a love affair with North Korea who by the way anyway of threatening to pull out of their agreed stop Dolphin hold on nuclear and missile test. We might have to go for nuclear weapons. How concerning is that now very concerning? That's what I'd be doing. If I were on I would be rushing across the nuclear-threshold because American behavior shows that we pay a lot more more attention as a country gets to the threshold and once you are across it we hesitate to take we hesitate to go to war. We hesitate to take stronger actions. I think actually a much better strategy would be to I try and diminish the political value of nuclear weapons as a state. It's close to the threshold say it's not GonNa make any difference in our behavior whether you have a nuclear weapon or not that would send a much more diminishing message 'cause that's difficult because the threat is if they do have a nuclear they could actually use it in the case of North Korea. That's what people are being worried about. Can I ask you Alastair though how the brexit chaos potential chaos plays into all of this the U._S. has is being able to rely on Britain in many many areas including intelligence defense gathering allies further furthering and helping U._S.. Foreign policy particularly on issues like Iran. How does this potential no deal brexit and and chaos impact on foreign policy do thing well? I will answer in a second but just that they make a comment on what curry said it would have to make a difference. It can't be inconsequential consequential. If Iran gets nuclear weapon the impact on the region would be colossal. That's why it was limited in the first base that's why the J._C._p.. was formed and and and secondly that we should even be in this situation Iran is not in a breakout position the moment it was heading that way and it was stopped. How is it that diplomacy and actions of so failed to make us now concerned about around moving towards a nuclear weapon but which would certainly be stopped in some dramatic way we should never have got ourselves back into this position and that's my plea to those involved in the <hes> as parties to this that they should get back to making sure this doesn't happen on breaks it? I I think one of the few places where Brexit node he'll probably would impact would be on the security in defense intelligence relationship with the United States. That's going to stay very strong. A Nodia brexit would have significant consequences for the United Kingdom in Europe in many other ways but I think the sense of mutual security particularly between our institutions is sufficiently strong but we we don't want to see it. What we do want to see is an agreement between the European Union the U._k.? So none of these things things get put at risk but really i. I feel that that relationship would remain very strong almost no matter what's okay so let me ask you this because Boris Johnson well prime minister. Theresa may today has said that we must persuade the United States to get back. Back into the Paris Agreement and back into the Iran nuclear deal just as we seek to protect the hard-fought Paris climate agreement so I also believe we must protect the similarly hard-fought J._C._p.. Away the nuclear deal with Iran whatever Brits challenges once again it took painstaking pragmatism and compromise strike that deal is Boris Johnson given what he's just demonstrated the kind of prime minister who would persuade president trump to do do those things very quickly because we're out of time almost Alastair izzy or not. We don't know Christiane in all honesty. We know that they have a relationship. If Boris Johnson should he become prime minister and I prefer Jeremy Hunt but should become prime minister if he can persuade Donald trump to come back into these multilateral agreement that would be absolutely vital but I didn't think anyone's betting the mortgage on it corey I I wouldn't better mortgage on it to real serious problems for the Transatlantic Atlantic relationship because of Brexit one is that Britain will no longer be able to influence European Union decisions that makes them less valuable to the United States and second as there are likely to be negative economic consequences in the near term. The first decade for example after Britain leaves the E._U. That to could likely diminish their ability to fund their armed forces and that's bad for the U._S.. To Corey shocker out of thank you so much the joining us thank you very much guys are terrible taking care of their health. 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Guest says that these are indeed dot times an only music can deliver some respite that is to time rock and Roll Hall of Famer David Crosby his first band was the birds and it gave Bob Dylan his first number one hit with their cover of Mr Tambourine man. Take a listen in such a familiar tune in there so many more because then came crosby stills Nash later young but despite his secure position in American rock history life at the very top has been very tough and Crosby's being haunted by addiction major health problems and personal fall-outs with all the musicians he used to work with now. He's committing it all to celluloid celluloid in the new documentary David Crosby remember my name. He join me for candid conversation about his life and is music David crosby welcome to our program. I'm very happy to be here. Well listen. I am really fascinated by this film because look it's branded as warts and all but it's really you discussing the wards and all I mean it's not a massive investigative piece but you are in full confessional mode I think why didn't you decide tied to do this at this time well. It's a kind of a peculiar circumstance I I'm at a point in my life when I should be fading out and sort of wandering off into the sunset quietly and I haven't been I've been working my my <hes> self of pretty hard and for some reason a ton of music is coming to me now at this late stage of my life and so four records in four years which is kind of UH. I didn't plan it that way. Just what's happened and I'm extremely grateful for it. You know a lot of people have asked You I know how is it the you still alive. Given your drug history given your eight stance given your diabetes given all that I'm going to get into that but I'm actually interested in. How is it can you attribute the quality of your voice to anything because so many of the old rockers was still going? Don't have the Choon fullness anymore. I gotta say it Baffles me as much as it baffles you or everybody else. I shouldn't be able to sing the way I'm singing. It doesn't make any sense and yes. Most of my compatriots are deteriorating. You know how they can sing. I I keep waiting for it to happen. Just hasn't happened. I figured the only thing I can do since I don't understand. It is like I said be very grateful for it and work really hard while I can and keep using it but you said music is the only thing I have to offer. I think yeah in terms of the world in terms of my life you know enlarge in large strokes. It's it's the the one place I can make a contribution Christiane. It's dark times out there. It's it's hard in the United States right now for people to be up and the music lifts so I think it's a good thing I think get chopping. I think that we need all the music we can get right now. You're right about that but you said dog times and let's just explore your dog times I mean by rights. You actually should not be alive the amount of cocaine and heroin win and all the other stuff that you did the number of years where you were fully addicted and behaving as you say I can't even repeat it but in a pretty horrible way to a lot of people let me just read some of the some of the headlines lines now that you're drugfree. How drugs destroyed David Crosby? That's the rolling stone November eighty five cocaine casualty. How cocaine ruined the life of Rock David Crosby People magazine Nine Hundred Eighty three the tragic story of David Crosby's living death spin October nine hundred eighty five? I mean clearly you've been written off. I think so yeah pretty much how did you what was it that made you turn it around because you've been drug free. The people don't often mention since the mid in one thousand nine hundred eighty s what turned around for me was I have with the French call original. I have a strong love of music and have a strong love by family and my family is probably even more important Jimmy than the music. I do have to leave my family to go on the road and play music and it's hard every time I don't like to leave. They don't like me to leave but I do have to make a living and you know we don't. We don't make money enough records anymore. So the only way I can is to go out and and work live and it is hard on somebody my age but you know it's also I'm very lucky to have a job a lot of talented people. I know who don't you. You're right. You're lucky to have this second chance and everybody else's lucky because they get to hear your music but let's talk about your wife and let's talk about having had to go on the road for so long I mean she says in the documentary I hope nope the lights go out when he singing. She's obviously very very concerned that every time you go with your history of medical illnesses that that she might not see you again. Do you hope that that way. You know I go for it I want to I'm holding firmly under my new motto which is only the good young planning a try to stick around as long as I can but it's not really a question how much time you have it's a question. What are you going to do with okay so let's go all the way back to win sort of not when you started but when the world knew of you I guess and that was with the birds and that was obviously so many decades ago the first major success was in co founding that group <hes> in the mid one thousand nine hundred? I just WANNA put a little clip of you with the band that comes from the documentary. We'll just play a little clip. I'm David Crosby and when we're together they call us the birds. I think we were one of the first electric fans I loved. It could get the attention of girls which is why all of us started playing music in the first place. Okay David Crosby dig down there. Is that legend true that it's really about all the girls you can get no question. That's why we all started all the guys in music and it doesn't matter what they tell you I promise you they started to try and get the attention of girls and again a lot of the documentary David focuses on your experience with the girls many of the girls who had whether it was Joni Mitchell who famously dumped you. I believe in a song that she played you. Shut off to shore. Why do you think she dumped you? I had fallen in love with Christine Hidden girl that that I really actually fell in love with I I did love Johnny and and she's a wonderful woman and I was a privileged being with her but I had fallen pretty hard for a young girl named Christine Hidden and and joining wanted to move on I mean you you'll your relationship with Christina ended tragically because she was killed in a car in a traffic accident and you do to a quite a lot about that and what it was about her that you loved on the pictures of Youtube together are extraordinary. You talk about her smile. You talk about the vibrancy of this young girl. I think she was twenty one when when you were going out yeah your shoes twenty-one Richie died they just you know nobody prepares us for death. <hes> nobody will even talk about it. It's kind of this mysterious lurking thing at the end of your life and everybody tries to pretend it's not there because they don't want to think about it so you're not prepared. Nobody tells you how to deal with it. When it comes upon you and I it knocked me down pretty hard I I loved the girl and she was going and you know I got a writ but it took years took many years and then let's fast forward a little bit from the birds region and that's when it's crosby stills Nash and there's a phenomenal wonderful song that I think means quite a lot to you and your life into all of us almost cut my hair and the famous? They're letting my freak flag fly. I just WANNA play it for a moment and we'll talk about it just the other day good sad letting. Is that the head that you don't yes yeah you got that line right. I borrowed that line from Jimmy Hendrix. Did you tell me about it. I didn't know that absolutely no that's a Hendrix line free clack yeah. That's his and I mean why how did it. Why tell me about it? Well there was a significance to it at the time that we did it. Everybody had short here. You'RE GONNA remember coming out of the nineteen. Fifties Pat Boone we a longer because it was a way of saying hey we're different and we're not the same as you and we wanna make it clear that we're not the same as you and it was a way of identifies ourselves. Each generation does it. You know two to one one. One way or another we were very different from our our parents and we needed a way to express that so we grew our hair long and it was our symbol our flag of saying hey we are not the same as you. What do you think you'll group and your songs and your music meant to the country and the people at that time a great deal? I think if the time we were expressing you know a certain. Ethel's so that that really did was very widespread at at the time we there was a belief going on we we believed that we could actually shape the country and make it go in the direction we wanted to go. We believe that democracy was GonNa win and we were hopeful and I think it's darker now much harder. Now I wonder then given what you just said. Go back to a little moment in the documentary where you take the camera ham recruit to a little house and you're explaining the history of that little house in the formation of your band. Let's just listen interior like they're the yellowy white one back through window. That's the kitchen crosby. Stills Nash was born right under that light. That's where we were standing. When we say verse on so obviously you still really really moved I think by the beginning by how it all started about by the legend by the Music Zeke by the relationship you talk a lot about the relationship with Graham Nash and then it came to a crashing hold? I'm really interested by how you focus so much of the documentary on what you've lost and that is your friendships. Neil young is furious at you. You're mad at some of the others I mean you don't you don't talk you. Don't hang out you don't see each other. You said you didn't even know where Neil young lives. You wouldn't wouldn't even be able to go to knock on his door and and try to make it better. Tell me how that happens of what that means to you well when you when you meet when you're when you start a band you're in love with each other. You think it's wonderful we love each other songs and you love the chemistry and it's exciting and you have a great time in you. You you accommodate each other really pretty well forty years later when you've done it for forty years and it's devolved to just turn on the smoke machine your player hits. It's not musically exciting. It's not fun and we weren't friends. You say something to the effect of you know. It's hard not to be able to tell the people you love what they meant to you and what what this all meant you and in the film you say and it's very powerful I still have friends but all the main guys that I made music with won't even talk to me. Yeah that's true. I think you know I certainly have been you know an opinionated and Abrasive and difficult guy my whole life and I'm sure that that there are many times when I let them down. I know I did by becoming a junkie. I let them down worse than anything they ever did to me. Becoming a junkie was really the lowest possible thing that could have done but I I think we were all horrible to each each other many times. I list all kinds of instances but I don't think that's this is the venue for that. I I'm not really looking to try and put it back together. I I would do it if they came to me and they wanted to <hes> but but I don't think that's going to happen. I'm busy making music as fast as I can. I feel quite artistically satisfied and happy and excited. I'm not really looking to a reunite. I don't mean reunite I mean maybe maybe repair a friendship for for posterity known that that I would like to do. I think it's valid valid things good point there. I've done it more with friends that I've lost over the years then I have tried to do it with these guys. These day are fairly set in where they are. They've said it repeatedly. They don't WanNa talk to me and they don't like me and they don't WanNa work and I'm cool that frankly you just mentioned being a junkie and you also mentioned doing the new music and with young people in new bands and having a new audience in so many young people and I wonder whether your experience of being completely wasted not just on psychedelics but on the really hard mean drugs of heroin and cocaine the things that bring out the worst in human character whether you whether you wish maybe that hadn't happened and I guess I'm asking because boy yeah yeah sure yeah. It's probably took more time away from me than anything else. In my life and in time is the most valuable thing you got it also it also I wonder what you think about the young girls because you you talk in the documentary and it's quite honest and actually brutal about cooking some of the girl some some of you go friends and young people onto these drugs and that it was you know that was a sinister thing yeah. I think it's creepy feel badly about it. I I didn't do it. You know devious way or to trick them or or anything but I I I was doing drugs and they came there and they did them with me. I I never force anything on anybody. I'll give myself that but that's not enough. I you know there isn't any part of doing hard drugs. That's okay or that's that you can defend or that. You can say well. It's not so bad it's all horrible and it destroys people and in nearly destroyed me and I'm very grateful I got out of it and you eventually kick kick the habit. Tell me how you kick the habit well <hes> I had tried you know to go to treatment several times in failed so I wound up <hes> giving myself up to the police released. We're looking for me and they put me in jail and I went to prison in Texas and that's how I got over. It wasn't easy. It wasn't fun. It was awful was the worst possible way. You can do it but it worked. I you know I the only thing you can do with mistake is not agonize over it but look at an learn from it. That's really the only useful thing you can do. The mistakes takes you made your life is look at them. Honestly learn from don't make them again well. That's what I did. I I looked at hard drug use. I realized there was a complete failure realized that had nearly killed me and I managed to beat it. I'm one of the only ones who did and I'm really really grateful. I lost so many friends to it. I can't even count them all. I just want to ask you because I have to say. I did laugh in two thousand fifteen when you sang silent night for the OBAMAS was at the at the Christmas tree with with with stills Nash. Did you know how out of tune it wants yeah. There's a disaster off. I can tell you what what happened is fed us the wrong monitor. Feats Stephen was hearing my monitoring. I was hearing his Oh so we couldn't control our voices. It wasn't wasn't even our fault but it was horrible David Crosby. Thank you so much indeed. Thank you very much. I'm a fan thank you honest to the very end including about that. You know off tune performance but there's so many really great great performances in these voices still pure crystal clear and that of course was a lesson on redemption from that rock and roll legend like crosby our next guest hit a crossroad on his search for purpose. Djamil Giovanni grew up in an immigrant Canadian neighborhood feeling isolated and estranged from his dad he he was on the road to a life of crime and gang violence and yet moments away from buying a gun. He decided to turn his life around eventually ending up at Yale Law School. He's now devoting his life to helping young men at risk he spoke to on Michelle Martin about his first book. Why young men rage race and the crisis of identity Jimmy Giovanni? Thank you so much for talking with us there. Thank you for having me. What is it that you're doing with this book? What does it did you try to? I think green this moment right now where masculinity is being redefined the economy's changing where the jobs that men used to count on especially working class men are starting to gradually disappeared you to automation nation we now share thankfully the labor market with women and in many cases women are outperforming US academically and professionally and so I think men are trying to think well what does that mean to be a man then like if if the old kind of advantages advantages that I used to have if the old definition of masculinity as it relates to my family or or my partner changing and what does it mean to be a man in the twenty first century and I I see a lot of boys and young men going online I'm going to their peer group going to the streets looking for answers to these questions and I think they're finding in many cases not great answers so what I hope to do with the book is to not just communicate. I hope better answers to those boys by showing these the people these violent movements out here trying to answer that question in negative ways but also to hopefully help parents and people who work with youth to think about how they might offer an affirmative proactive answer to that question. Tell me a little bit about when you were growing up I mean you talk a lot in the book about how important it was to be cool into kind of fit. I mean that's not unusual. I mean like it's the rare teenager who doesn't struggle at one point with like where do I fit in. What did that look like for you? Yeah well so myself I self and a lot of my peer group also didn't have fathers around. We didn't have older males in our community very much we were in a newly urbanized suburb that was specifically urbanized by immigrant communities and so there wasn't a lot of tradition around us were. Is there a young community. What that meant is that we would leave our moms houses everyday on our way to school looking for the father figures that we didn't have at home and we would find those in the CDs that we listen to music videos or in pop pop culture really is where we found the the male role models that we were wishing we had in our house or in our neighborhood so for a lot of America that is just entertainment they can see the distinction between hey? This is a wrapper or this is an actor. Maybe they make a good movie. Maybe it's compelling but I leave it at that for us. Because those were not just entertainers I mean they were like clerics. They were they were sources of wisdom and inspiration. Here are people who we thought we were supposed to model ourselves after and so we took what was entertainment to some people and we took it to heart we took it very seriously and that gangster subcultures something that we were drawn to because of that a little bit about school Houston put much effort into it because it wasn't cool or you just thought was boring or why is that that's definitely case. I mean when all your idols are people. Who are these outlaw anti authority figures right? It's hard to think that the kind of boring monotonous life of doing your homework and writing tests is exciting or interesting and I think that was hard for me to to say like I should be putting my time into things that are the don't offer immediate gratification or even more specifically where I'm not gonNA feel admired respected by peer group if I do these things whereas if I'm out in the cafeteria punching someone in the face people are going to say oh you're cool. You're tough we so there's that kind of affirmation that I didn't have with school but also felt to be honest sat society which is rigged against people like me. I didn't think that I have like there was no meritocracy in my mind so what's the point of working at school if you think people don't want you to be successful. They're not going to give you a job. When you go to the mall you follow it around by security guards it? It all added up to this feeling of. I'm not destined for success here. So why bother you fail this literacy tests and that was a pivot point for you. I mean you talk about the fact that it made you feel like garbage. They actually thought that you couldn't read and you talk about this duality of that on the white had it makes you feel horrible on the other hand. It was a motivator for why was it a motivator for you. Part of the motivation from you is that it just sent me a bit over the edge double down on feeling rejected from the school system. I doubled down on. I'm feeling excluded from the possibility of success I came close to buying a gun in participating in all sorts of things that you know why was one very small decision away from potentially ruining my life and entering a system that is very unforgiving and unjustly so too young men so <hes> because I realized I didn't WanNa go down that road. I'm not going to be gangster. I don't WanNa buy the gun that life is in cut out for or I'm not cut out for that life what. What do I do now and it turns out when you don't have anyone to smoke with and drink with and skipped classes with and share gangster fairytales with <hes> going to school becomes a lot easier and then going to class and and you just start to re socialize yourself gradually because you have a new peer group around you and that's ultimately what feeling that literacy tests kind of pushed me so far away that I kinda came back a bit of a boomerang effect I think so I'm GonNa fast forward allot so you GEICO from failing student fails literacy tests doesn't doesn't care to college you go to Yale Law School and then what happens? What did you decide to do with with all that? In my experience at Yale was this abrupt end dramatic confrontation with privilege and this idea that you go from being someone who's feels like you're scratching and Klein just to get a chance to prove yourself to all of a sudden now feeling like the world is in front of you like you can all these job options and you're empowered and you're now everyone who these institutions that used to say you couldn't even right now. They're telling your genius and it's just like it was his very overwhelming feeling I it wasn't sure what to do with and part of how reconciled with it was. I decided that I was not going to just be a student at Yale. I was going to be someone who took it upon myself to share that privilege with as many people as possible. I wanted to feel like the empowerment I received that affirmation positively of your smart you're capable. There's a world out there that you can be successful in place where you can belong. I wanted to evangelize that message one of the things about this book that's interesting. Is that you you. We've spent a lot of time so far on your personal story and you kind of marry that personal story to a lot of people are talking about around the world <hes> violent extremist movements all over the world that that young men are attracted to why are so many young men in your view attracted to these violent extremist movements and looking at it from the outset. You think that's ridiculous. Why would you WANNA do that? What have you come up with? Yeah I try I in the book to connect the dots between you know gang violence jihadist terrorism and white supremacist violence because I think that too often minority groups are pathologist as owning these problems uniquely and I think think that when we connect the dots we show that this transcends are racial or cultural differences. I mean there's something about violent movements that appeal to young men in various different circumstances. When I first started thinking about this I had been so used to thinking about this is a mostly economic problem that poverty explains this and the more I dug into it? The more I tried to understand the complexity of the problem and why middle-class kids were the ones in many cases leaving to go join Isis and Syria or middle class kids were out that CHARLOTTESVILLE rally two years ago I think when I found is that these movements are experts reaching young men on a few different frequencies so one is they expertly echo the anger that along a lot of young men feel now teenage angst or the inks of a young person something we all can relate to I think most of us and we look back at pictures of ourselves sixteen one person was right but what these movements do really well as they send a message of the reason you feel that way is because the world around you is to blame not that it's normal that something needs to work through or that there are loving adults who might help you cope with those feelings but rather that you should be primarily responding to that with more anger anger and resentment and you should hate people whether it's hate the West or hate your rival neighborhood hate <hes> immigrants and newcomers picking target and they're making you personalize your anger that you feel inside and they do that very well. The other thing they do is they offer brotherhood and comradery they're saying we want to be you to be part of us. We want you to be one of us. We want to walk beside you in life and to an isolated lonely young man that can be a very appealing message and a lot of the guys who join these movements are people who are seeking mentorship from older men they're seeking friendship. They're seeking camaraderie and these movements especially with the way they use. The Internet are able to really pinpoint where you might find that isolated young man who's in need of a friend a number of people who've been studying terrorism for quite some time have made that connection. What do you think you've added to this? That's new what I hope. I've added is that I we have a an impulse to want to see the solution to these problems <music> as equally dramatic as the problem itself so what I mean by that is we recognize global issues there international issues. They're threatening the national security of many nations across the world. They're threatening the safety of of neighborhoods across America <music> as well and yet we are hoping for some sort of national or international response. There's some sort of magic. Ideologies countries could get together and we can fix these problems. I think a lot of it though is very local and that's what I try to bring to the analysis is to say well. The reason reason why a young man joins these groups not because he's sitting around thinking about foreign policy he's not sitting around thinking about the international economy and globalization a lot of it comes from the pain he feels inside. It's he lost his mom or his father's not around or he had negative experience at school or he's in a neighborhood where the police aren't keeping people safe right there things going on on on the grassroots level that make these groups appealing and I try to bring that and that's partly why telling my own stories because I talk about the <hes> personal lives of a lot of young men and I felt it was important to reciprocate that honesty in that vulnerability by saying yeah that that feeling of isolation that these groups are preying on. I felt that I know what that's like to feel hopeless and that is what I bring to the table I think is the local personal understanding of what's going on the lives of young men. What are some specific things that you would like to see people doing to address this? Global Malays is I would call it among boys some boys and men that has implications for everybody well one of the things that I advocate for a lot especially with parents or teachers or people working with young people and young men in particular is bridging the gap between online mine and in-person communications so what I mean by that is you know we're seeing more and more young people spending all their time on their phone on their IPAD. They are thinking about the world through instagram and through twitter and through facebook and yet they've not speaking to adults about what they're seeing seeing what they're saying and I think that what that creates is for these especially these isolated young men who are most vulnerable to being reached through those platforms by a violent group. I think that we need adults who are asking those questions so even simple practices actresses as you know every day every few days talking about hey. This is what I saw online. What did you see like what are you reading? What are you were you following? I think that's something that we can do everyday in our own households at our kitchen tables that would make a really big difference in the lives of more than I think. The other thing that I push for a lot is thinking about how we make public institutions more flexible so if you're thinking about a police department or school system and you're saying well how do they adapt to the needs of their community too often we have very rigid in public institutions where reform takes years and years and years and in that time you can lose a whole generation to a negative influence. That's kind of set route in a neighborhood. So what I push for a lot for example is certain charter school models that I think are flexible and understand what people need forms of community policing that are more about listening than about telling people what they need. I know those are not break groundbreaking ideas but I think seeing them as the starting point for stronger local community institutions. That's really important some of the civil rights activists in this country. I think maybe it was Jesse Jackson. You say that African Americans are the canaries in the coal mine here you know that what effects black people I will affect white people mater could would it be that the kinds of things you're talking about like diseases of despair for example or that you know the imbalance of performance of boys and girls in the classroom it affected black people I so therefore people didn't care they care air until it started affecting white people. Could it be that oh I think that's absolutely true. I mean no no doubt about it. I mean the idea that I'm reading this book about young men and drawing attention the experiences of young men but we know that thousands of the young men who pass away in this country every year our block boys whose lives are being lost a gun violence gangs and all sorts of chaos and it it part of why fight so hard for that to be included in this conversation about radicalization and extremism is because it's easy to forget that the first group of boys that we were losing to these antisocial ideologies in this decade where the block boys and now we see it what you hottest and we've seen it with these white supremacists becoming getting more and more attention but I don't want that to crowd out the reality that we've Lee allowed a particular group of boys in America to shoulder struggle for very long time and not taking it nearly as seriously as we should and we in them off to we built a justice system that made a lot of them never had a second chance and we're more inclined to offer. I think a second chance to a lot of other people's what about probably what about countries where people are attracted to these jihadists sort of movements. I mean do you find the same you find the same thing absolutely <hes> some of the studies that I've looked for example show that among first generation immigrants to Europe you find a gender disparity were men are more encouraged to study and to to earn a living and women are discouraged in one generation that flips where you start to see in low income neighborhoods women's starts to outperform men in the second generation of these families and I think that's because when it comes to the traps that are out there for a young man who doesn't have a lot of money the higher rates of interaction with police. They'll the higher how much easier to to get involved in crime the allure of earning money illegally when you see those traps right it starts to shift how young men are experiencing society. They might go from one generation being the ones their family expects to make money and go to school to all of a sudden their family thinking well now. We need to take care of you because you made all these mistakes. Could you tell us a story of one of the young men that you work with who you either. I think you're able to have an impact on who perhaps had an impact on you. When I started the research the book and I wound up in Belgium? I went to this youth program that was designed to help young people who had dropped out of school find a job and then all these different programs for construction workers fast food workers for retail and I went to one that was for housekeeping and it was all women there except for one guy he was probably the same ages me he was a young Moroccan man who grew up in Brussels and so I went over him and I asked him. Why are you in this room like a bunch of women you feel comfortable here and he said to me that he had just gotten out of prison and while right before he got locked up he had a daughter who he missed missed the first year of her life because he was inside and he came out and said I need to be able to look after my family and if I can get a job cleaning hotel rooms and that's the way I'm going to do it and then that's enough for me and so you know I think the he was in danger of dropping out of that program because of how hard it was for him to be the only man and I think that you know me being there attending the class with him for a few days and encouraging him and telling them that I was proud interim I think it made a difference and whether he stuck with it and he wound up graduating and getting a job cleaning hotel rooms and he stands out to me because he was forced to think well is it more an affront to my masculinity to be in the classroom with women learning how to a housekeeper or not look after my family and he chose that was more important as a man to be there for his family not to worry about what it might look like that he had a job that men don't traditionally have and I just it warned my heart because I feel like that's kind of the point of what I'm trying to do glide pass the U._N.? This okay because there is a sense of urgency to the work because you have been sick yeah right in the middle of finishing this book you were diagnosed with a very serious illness Melissa stage four lymphoma as I understand how you doing I'm Jay okay thankfully went into remission a few months ago which is made my life lot easier because I don't have to sit hospital all the time anymore. I feel really good <hes> but I still do feel that sense of urgency I mean when you stare death in the face. It really makes you feel motivated to go out in the world and share whatever it is you think you might have learned and that's how I feel at the moment I feel that urgency. It's also where my desire to not be to not feel like I'm putting a box comes from like I'm I really WanNa feel like I can can speak my mind as an individual and say what I believe is right that that I can try to put forward some sort of universal morality that everyone regardless of your circumstances might feel drawn to and and not to feel kind of limited by the same things that used to take office a young man which is people judge you stereotype. You think that they know something about because of what you look like Giovanni. Thanks so much for talking to us. Thank you for having me and the book why young men is out now but that's tit for a program remember you can listen to podcasts at any time see us online at I'm employed dot Com and follow me on instagram and twitter. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London Hi Bill Kristol.

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Mt. Rushmore of the Worst Gigs (with Jon Niccum of WorstGig.com))

Mt. Rushmore Podcast

51:27 min | 2 months ago

Mt. Rushmore of the Worst Gigs (with Jon Niccum of WorstGig.com))

"Greetings welcome to the mount rushmore podcast mining jeff and joined as always by my good friends richer and my goal. Howdy richard to michael debate and deliberate the most ubiquitous aspects of many different topics. And this week they are going to be joining forces in Fierce competition against an interloper. Who was actually quite an expert. He's a journalist and he has a wonderful website called worst gig dot com but really this is a site that's related to a book called worst gig so i'm going to let him introduce the site in the book and i'm gonna give him a hearty welcome. Please welcome john nick. How're you doing john. Oh great here from jeff this on biden talking about terrible things you know. This isn't. This isn't our best holiday programming choice. I would say that topic is the mount rushmore of the worst gigs tells. What's worse. Gig dot com. John kapoor It's i've been collecting stories from my interviews with famous musicians sense Pretty much the late nineties where. I asked them the simple question. What's the worst you've ever played And this is a collection. The website in the book of their were gigs. And you know for some people. It worse gig can be fan related. It can be weather related. It can be violence. Related sickness related. Who knows But i've been cataloguing these for quite a while and i think i've got a pretty good collection of truly awful experiences. Oh that's wonderful. I have perused the website. And i'm going to order the book and you know what that's what makes this. A holiday episode is because it's a gift guide. The mount rushmore gift guys contains one item the book the worst kick with always sells really well around december. Is that right. Oh yeah it's i track the sales every week in it's it's one of those they call it a perennial. You know where you can this. It's not really a dated topic. It's something that everybody can relate to every year. Hey that's cool so one can go to the website worst gig dot com and from there you can launch off and go To social media handles. But heck you might as well just go to the button there on amazon dot com barnes and noble or books. A million are all these places where you can buy that book and gift it in get and all those things so Pro portion over. Well no we're going to do it again at the end but promo portion done for now and we'll move on into the actual game so Michael and richard. I think our guest is going to go first john. What's your first choice of the four. You'll choose for the mount rushmore of the worst gicc narrowing. This down was very tricky. Okay and I'm going to start with one by guitarist. Joe satriano are you guys. Sure yes said. Well just johnny Back in the day was playing plunged show in malaysia and it was one of those big festivals stadium shows with jethro tull and sugar ray and toto very odd selection beans and for whatever reason it kept running later in later so he went to sleep in about four in the morning he gets woken. Or is it awakened one of the two and They said you're going on so he gets up. There starts playing in. The east starts going into his song. Satch boogie and all the sudden beat malaysian army takes the machine guns while winning machine guns everybody and says you need to stop playing now or we are going to shoot. Apparently there was some kind of course happening and they were on stage. Either to make sure it didn't happen and make sure it did happen. One of the two. He wasn't entirely sure so he Basically handed his guitar to his tack and Grabbed his suitcase and they immediately drove to the airport and got out of the country. Wow so you you heard this firsthand from joe himself you all. These stories are me personally interviewing them. How did it face turn white. Does he go off into this distant place if or was it. Was you know as a as a former musician. We've everybody has bad gigs. But there's a bad gig and there's a gig in a foreign country in language you don't speak were army onstage with machine guns and says to me. That's a whole next lot. Yeah i guess. Trade follow for whitesnake is hard but like a machine. Guns pointed a intense. Do you do you personally. Have any bad gig stories and if so is that something we can hear a little bit. Okay it's included in the book. But i've got a particularly good bad story. Okay all right well Entice her audience to stay and hanging in there throughout the whole podcast so So guys michael richard. Who's gonna go. I'm going to go first and i have. I have zero interviews with famous musician. So this is all basically based off of wikipedia as per usual. No our first choice is the nineteen eighty-three festival. Oh i don't know if you guys are. Were jaffe. You may be old enough to remember this. I was just watching some of it on the cable channel. That is Night flight now is real right everything so yeah oh yeah yeah. I saw some of us festival so it started in one thousand. Nine hundred. steve wozniak The founder of apple Basically have this idea to spend millions of dollars to get all of his favorite bands onstage at a glen helen pavilion down here in southern california and it was a huge flop in its own way. Didn't it didn't make money. But that didn't stop him from wanting to do the whole thing again in. Nineteen eighty-three They broke it into three different days. The first day was new. Wave headlined by the clash. Second day was Heavy metal headlined by van halen and the third day was rock. Headlined by david bowie. Now as a side note in this becomes interesting it becomes important in the story Van halen was paid a million dollars which was a some sort of record deal at the time to come. Play this one gig The woes decides that he wants david bowie to play and he is adamant about this. Even though david bowie is also gonna cost a million dollars find. They go out and get him and he finds out about this. They have some sort of favoured nation's clause in their contract that says they have to be the highest paid performer at gig so they put their foot down and say now wearily. You have to pay us another five hundred thousand dollars or else. We're not gonna play. He pays for that. So this is. This is all happening while the clash have been paid five hundred thousand dollars for the gig. They find out about this and the class being the class. They decided to make a political statement about and Hold a press conference where they basically demand these big name. Artists give pursue percentage of their money to charity Whether or not this actually happened kind of hard hard to say so the class. This is becoming mick. Jones's last show with the clash. They get on stage and they do a very hostile show. They're not they're not talking to each other. Joe strimmers is antagonizing the crowd and not in that kind of fun punk rock sort of antagonizing way in like i really don't want to be here and i'm cashing my paycheck. Sorta way up and they start complaining about all the commercialism of the of the gig. And you know how much money that these artists were making so at some point near the end of the set on the multimedia screen behind them the crew went and put a copy of the five hundred thousand dollar check that they received for. Just put it up there for everybody to see. Oh that's hilarious. Needless to say there was not an encore that night and the clash as we knew it broke up immediately afterward. Wow not the London working steps that They're all kind of posturing as i imagine. The clash could also probably summoned the malaysian army. If they needed to not sandinistas fatigue so well what what. I think was us festival. Forget what what it was. Which was the one that I don't think elton john remembers even performing at it and was other one phil collins played once in london and then once that was live aid was live. Okay yeah yeah. I remember as a kid seeing this all happened kid. I dunno junior high school. Seeing it all happen and then thinking it felt like pepsi clear at the whole thing just so eighties barf all over. Tv van halen was I think some of their like their writer notoriously has the no brown eminem's clause within it that if you can believe david deeply ross having a justification for something as diva esque as that but actually saying that you know they have these huge They have a huge front line. So if anything goes wrong with all these trusses than marshall stacks. Eddie was pd powered. Stacks or whatever. They're going to die because of all the infrastructure that they have. The david lee roth was saying we want detail oriented people to do. Put our shows on. So that's why we say no brown eminem because if they're not paying attention to the ems paying attention to the fact that we need stage that can support fifty tons of frontline gear so by the way mr professional david lee roth showed up three hours late to bomb to the where you could barely stand and slur through the shows. So let's let's keep that in mind brown them crazy from the heat. Okay all right. So john nickel. What's your second choice. I second choice This one's kinda sad. But i wanted to go one anyway. I interviewed for sad. Like four white men podcasting said okay. You sad pathetic. Okay expert art. I'm sorry i didn't rookie. You interviewed graham nash. How awesome is that. yeah it was. It was really cool. His his book in my book came out the same week and his book kept my book out of the number one spot in a got to number two in the us. But i got the number one in canada so that was fun cool But i asked him. What's the worst gig. He ever played And he had a story that really struck with but they were doing a tour eighties. And of course you know. He's part of crosby stills nash and at the time David crosby was having a incredible drug problem with cocaine and other substances so for this tour in order to get him to play these shows with them because it was a sold out. You know reunion type tour They built a small room off to the side of the stage every night that they played so he could go and get high between salts and one of the things that graham told me was the he felt really conflicted because music was such a great part of david's life that he didn't want to take that away with from him but by doing these sold out shows he was getting more money to get deeper into drugs so his his quote to me was when asked him. What's worse replacing. A question is not a show but tour. Every show is like that moment by moment. Every show is worse than we ever played while what What era 'cause they you know they've that was early eighties okay too. I think it's one that tours it a c. n. n. or see us n. Do you know. I don't think young with them at the okay okay. Wow that's rough and to see somebody So david crosby is kind of notoriously the kind of the glue that held the birds and cars stills and nash together into see this guy almost like the belushi of the snl on sample. Just the thing. That's the thing that he loves in is was put on this planet to do is just killing the so. What a what. A horrible thing for graham is witness. Most of these stories are are just either terrifying. Or larry or whatever but for whatever reason. There was unmown motion resonance to that story that i just had to include it on the mountain. Well definitely goes deeper than you know a whether they are celebrities whether they're somewhat coddled and whether they dwell in a kind of a world that many of us wish we could be in being a rockstar can be hard very hard gig and to also have to see person who's brother get more mired in substance challenges. That must be devastating. That's horrible would it bring it down all right. We'll bring up. Don't worry okay. Cool michael and richard. Oh not yet not yet. I down going downhill. Richard and i were talking about. We weren't sure if this was like a personal experiences at a concert or just like in general catastrophe. So i have kind of a personal experience and that is not seeing cat power in two thousand six which is a very common thing for people to not have it clipped off a little bit michael michael michael kim. A message him in chat johnny still on so good john whereabouts. Do you live in lawrence Twenty second new hampshire right on the corner of new hampshire in twenty-third cool. Oh sorry sorry. Sorry that just dropped and then came back up okay. So the last thing i heard was you guys was You're about to say not. Seeing power was something that happened to a lot of people think. Yeah all right so Not seeing app power with something that happened to a lot of people especially in kind of like the mid-2000s when she kind of was kind of engaged in not only like had like a substance abuse issue but also just like this tremendous stage fright and she's tremendous singer-songwriter but at the same time she's a very kind of fragile person in fragile performer. And i saw her a couple of years earlier in seattle. I don't remember any sort of those things happening. But you just started. Hearing like as she was touring again or as as going to go see her. It started. Started hearing the things of like this. She cancelled she. Kind of walks off the stage often either mid song sometimes or just leaves you know shows are kind of half finished and you know talking about graham. Nash is someone that obviously had his own demons. Rockstars are like these very talented people. But they're very fragile and i can't think of like cap power without thinking of like the same sort of like. Oh she's so she's she's beautiful musician but like you know right such beautiful songs and it's such a beautiful voice but then she's also like to super challenged on stage. Yeah oh that's disappointing. How did you feel as an audience member. Did you know not dissing her being like i remember thinking like of course. Of course she's gonna cancel another show. Of course it's gonna you know we're going to be supported but you know. I don't think i understood as i do. Now that it was built on like stage fright and built on like an alcoholism or other substance issues. You know. yeah wow. That's that's really fast. They have a definitely a worst gig from an audience standpoint and then at that moment i can imagine it's the worst gig for that person too. Because they they feel the pressure to entertain. They don't have the resources as an artist on the road doesn't to be near family to be near a maybe a counselor or some some way to make life normal so you can start to get back to normal. So that's ron and at that point so it's not like she's super big rockstar. At that point so it's not like if if crosby and he's got this huge legacy and career behind him. She's still making her name. Yeah yeah okay. Well all right so duties. There is an awesome thing you can do. You can go to worst gig dot com and there you can visit the facebook which is a facebook dot com worse stick and you can go out and chase down the twitter which is at were skit and john. What happens on all those places out on social media. I don't know that it's anything particularly interesting happens. On the social. I out knew stories. You know quite often tweet out when someone mentions the worst center. I felt like a found one recently. Tom morello the guitarists. For ray julia. He just did a master's class series in in his booklet. He has a section about bad gigs and he has a whole thing. about worst. gig is a shadow to says. Check out the book. Check the so every now and then you know you're still still getting love from all these musicians. Whose heard about this and appreciate the site bullets. Cool some tom. Guberman schiff iraq too. So don't think that's super cool so you know you can give the gift of of the worst. You can give the worst gift. Give your friends the worst gift by going to amazon or any of the bookseller Actually support a local bookseller. If you can they're doing doing Have much of a rough time as everybody else is and find that book and given out to your friend who's either fan of Music or just a fan of Entertainment stories were the the the when things go wrong. So you can also do us a solid and go to the place where you got this podcast and go back and dig through our past episodes and download rate and review previous episodes. We'd love for you to also share them. We have social media sites to twitter instagram facebook. And something you can do there. Is you could suggest future topics so that would be super cool to to jump out of our brains and the things that we choose to jump into your brain and here. We suggest previous people who done that have ended up big on the show. You don't have to do but you could zoom we can find you. We can talk to you. So there's that and we're going to go to our second. Half with john neekam author of worse gig telling us his third choice for the worst gig ever ready late on This one is not a downer. In my opinion hilarious. I think one of the things that is particularly pauling. When you're playing a show is the level in which people aren't paying attention to you so this is one of those stories that i love. This is by the band cowboy junkies which was a Run and They were kind of known as very Quiet kind of Introspective elegant ban. Well they got signed in nineteen eighty nine and They were gonna. They were considered by. Rca to be one of these big signings so they were flown out to this meeting that they had in marbella spain where all the record executives would go up to the top of this mountain and where there was this like a private bull ring and a dining area and they'd showcase some of the band's So they they take the band out here. By this point all the record executives have been there for hours and they can't leave because you have to be bust up to this mountain and the buses kind drop. You often don't return until the events over so not only if they've been been there for a conference in having speeches and eating They've been drinking all day so all of them are completely hammer. Well the the head of the label of goes up margo timmins. Who's the lead singer for Can we junkies and says i really want you to sing the song mining for gold to start out with well. This is an odd cappella song meeting. She's just going to go out and sing it by yourself with no musical She's really nervous about it. she's really shy. Keep in mind the records not even out yet. Nobody's at this point but she decides to go out there and seeing this thing so she gets out there and The way she described it is everybody is flat out drunk or they're talking or they're literally asleep in fact there's a guy sitting rain front of her who is open mouth. Snoring in. His snoring is as loud as her singing voice at this point. So she's trying to to power through this gig and it's just falling apart. No one's paying attention and so she decides. I got i to do something to make this thing worse. I'm not gonna You know have. My career torpedoed in front of the Label head right so She focuses on the very back room. She sees this guy. One guy in the room was paying attention so she just starts singing to him and she's like he's got a really big head and so i'm focusing on his head and then the more she sings to him the more comes into focus and she realizes and know that guy. That's gene simmons of kiss a really big head and he's the only one they're paying attention but she powers through the the gig and afterwards he comes up to her and she's kind of complaining and he goes you know what i know that gig. That's a bad gig there with you kid and so it made it better for. Wow is it the first nice guy. Gene simmons song a story. You've ever heard. I only heard the stories that involve How much money he is involved with obsessed with the type of guy you know across my pulse over you know you you. He wants to get paid for everything they do. And i'm so nice to hear that he just was supporting a fellow musician. Yeah that's super. Cool the empathy that one artist s for another in in the ability to identify with that rough rough situation. I as a part time. Stand up comic. We tend to have the opposite. It's like if you see somebody going down you join the heckling. You pick up a rock and pelt them with all all of the other. Shirley jackson People so what were you gonna say. You're i into that whole story just sounds like the travails of being the opening. Act like times. A thousand basically. Yeah yeah so so rough. But that's that's really interesting. i can't imagine. They just seem so introspective in such kind of twee kind of group. That just doesn't seem you. Acdc in that story. You don't want to be the cowboy junkies you wanna marshall stack and that sort of. Yeah totally okay. Got richard michael. All right so for third choice and john when you mentioned graham nash. I thought that we would have a duplicate pick here. Because my third pick is the ultimate festival from nato sixty-nine and crosby stills and nash were at the gig were one of the bands were featured. I'm not gonna talk too much about the rolling stones in the death of meredith hunter. That's been covered. There's a frigging movie. The essentially is about it. I would like to talk about what one of the worst things could happen to you at a gig which is being knocked unconscious at your own gig. Which is what happened. Poor mark par. Marty ballon of jefferson airplane. They were one of the first bands that were part of the part of the festival. And the rolling stones famously hired hells angels to act as security for the festival and paid them in beer which they proceeded to drink copious amounts of before the show even started so by the time that they were supposed to be doing security they were good liquor up along with whatever else was going on. And there's a at some point during the beginning of the jefferson airplane performance. There's a scuffle. Mardi belan goes in there to try and try to break it up. Hells as we'll just turns around and cold cocks. Him knocks him out cold. Well that's bad gig. So they have to. They think they get him up an upright but he sort of done for the rest of the show. Paul kanter's that guitar player. And i think the leads. The lead songwriter for jefferson. Airplane is basically so gets up there in and says the crowd so just case. You're wondering hells angels just knocked out our lead singer. So that's nice allows almost gets into a fight with the hells angels Himself later on you mentioned Graham nash john crosby stills and nash playing a gig and stephen stills is playing guitar and suddenly realizes that he is being stabbed multiple times in the leg by drunk hills angel who is sharpened. A bicycle spoke and just thought it would be funny to start stabbing guitar player and so again the lesson. I noticed that both of my choices were festival gigs. That seems like that's a running thing. I have talked about woodstock. The original woodstock talked about the attempted reboot of woodstock mudstock. Mudstock exactly you know. Don't play festival show. it's a bad idea. Bad things happen when you play festival especially when the security is hells angels. Yeah that is the fox guarding the hen house. That's try try to try to prevent any trouble from happening. Yeah okay yeah. Those are the guys that you want on. If you want to keep keep things calm. what is it about festivals is they. Don't they happen in often improvised venues. They are days long. Sometimes the crowd has ample time to get intoxicated. Rowdy it doesn't is those are all mitigating factors is. There's something else you can. Think of Richard yeah. I think that you know a a performance. Venue is sort of hermetically sealed lace. And that's why musicians have writers who is because they have a things that need to happen a certain way and you know. There's an expectation that when they show up to the the they will show up. Hopefully hopefully if if they're not being halen at this time and this all will be set up for them and this is what they need to be able to do their job and that just goes all out the window. It seems with with the majority of festivals. You know they're the the planning scattershot. The ability to be able to stage manage seems to go out the window and it just seems to create an environment of chaos. Yeah i would add one other reason that these things seem to invite a controversy. Which is when you're buying a ticket to see a band that you wanna see your you know you're on their side but the problem with these festivals is. You're buying a ticket to a whole bunch of bands. You may not want to see also So you've got a typically a mix of the wrong crowd also with a bunch of these bands. Okay yeah you you. You're their air supply there for alice. Cooper what do i do yeah Love that let's all the triple eight triple a. The john I don't want to end this conversation without knowing your worst gig and i think this might be the time to say it since we're about to hit your fourth choice so Or a bad gig store. Can you want me to do my my personal story. Glenn lid on us you are. I i was in a band called easter day which was also the last name of our lead singer. Songwriter sister dated him for a while. Hot minute yeah interesting. Greg easter day. Or something like skype okay okay. Sorry is in the mid. Nineties in the alternative heyday. And we were playing a show in wichita which as from kansas tell you you know what. What are the two towns that everybody hates in kansas. Which starred to be so isn't gonna go which stop but we're playing. A venue called the aviator This huge cavernous x. Airplane hangar that they turned into a club And when we got there we counted a total of eighteen people. But you know whatever Not the least amount of people of senior show before so we just sold you're done so We're playing us. On an. For whatever reason i was playing fretless bass fan by bay stops working and what i realized is it has called active electronics between battery powers. Pickups and the battery went out which is very unusual These things you change them once every three years or whatever. So i'm like okay. He just play this one song. We had called autumn which had kinda longer Trump and all sit down on stage and paul replace the battery within his two minute window. I felt like yeah. I can do this so i sit down on the stage. I hear this kind of crunch down. But don't think too much of it and i get the battery fixed. I get back up to the microphone. They're playing and so we're doing the song and the other singer her name. Was elaine staring at me. And she staring at my. But why are you staring at my. But as she kinda points and my my blue jeans are completely read. Because when i sat down on the stage i'd actually sat on broken bob. Oh dear entities stab straight through into an artery. Oh god so it won't stop bleeding and and so scots like we're gonna take a break So we go to the bathroom and We're stuffing paper towels into my pants. And i'm telling you man it's not stopping okay and for whatever reason. I don't remember a whole lot more of the show than we played it. We're done with the gig and we were driving back to kansas city. And we'd take into cars. And i was writing in scots frontier car. And we put all these towels down. Because i had been bleeding and i remember about you know three or four hours later. Whatever we get back to kansas city. And i step out and again. I'm kinda woozy at this point anyway because clearly lost a lot of blood But i'm you know young ish. I don't know any better and we get out and we take the towels out and my blood had completely bled through and covered his seat. And i swear to you it is. It formed into the pattern of airplane wings. That's the show. I got set at the aviator at the wow poetic justice. Yikes were there for every worst gig. Was there ever a gig. That should have been bad but was awesome. Like oh my god. These few people are are really love us. Serve the the book with the chapter. It's all good. Which is people who tell their worst stories it turns to be into kind of a defining moment for the positive moment You know you can. Some of the best shows are ones that start. Terrible turn into greatness I remember seeing as one band Paxton i remember their name. I'm blanking on right now. Videira red was her name. Vendetta red they played a venue and lawrence and they were touring two other bands for whatever reason their lead singer. His voice had completely gone so the other bands Would leap in at points during the show where he just couldn't do it and they would finish the song or help. The song bolstered in it. Became this really fun. Kind of crowd thing. You know what i mean and for all these shows i've seen for some reason i always remember that one is as one of the most impressive to me that they just kinda found a way to make it work. Oh that's cool. I thought there was a If it was the story from semi sonic or dan wilson or somebody in your book but jacob schlichter think of of semi sonic and and sometimes keyboard player at the same time was also authored. A book that or at least an essay on how you people think. That being a touring band is a profitable enjoyable thing but he did break down economics of what an advances and. That's an incredible book to tell me about all stars. Yeah okay so it seems like there's the world of of music and entertainment is something that people often observe the the the highs and the peaks in the the well-paid people and then there's these other people who yes they are categorically rockstars but they are Really kind of indentured certain in indentured servitude on more debt because he pointed out as you know even in the nineties there. Was you know. Basically a version of paola. That they got rid of in the sixties and seventies but it was the same type of thing you pay different stations etc to get your music on right out of the bands. you know. Funds and the Bands typically don't even know it's happening. Wow yeah so you actually have a. You shared a personal story so now would you please share your final worse gig story. Yes and everybody ashby now. What's what's really the best story in the in the book and for me. It's a story by ian mci. The founder of the band's ghazi and minor threat Most of these stories were a either a imprisoned or a phone conversation. You know kind of a one shot. This one spoke. I think six or seven times on the phone. And i'd recorded each time because he wanted to make sure that this story was right So the version of the book is kind of cobbled together of his perfect telling it. But are you familiar with the gaza. Union mcgowan who talked about him before on the show so yeah excellent. Well he's really one of the most. Diy musicians of all time. You know owns dischord records sarah. Well they were playing in europe and nineteen ninety at the height of sue gazi damn and they were playing a show at the university of warsaw in poland and as part of the show they were staying at essentially a dorm on campus so during the night of the show earlier indices gonna take well while he's taking a nap Some skinheads had showed up at the venue to buy tickets and they were turned away and they were not happy with this so they decided they were going to. You know Protest so they got together a few their buddies and by a few. I mean nearing one hundred and they decided to march on the campus and find the band and discussed the fact that they wouldn't be attending the show so In gets woken up by these This polish student in of course no one in their band speaks polish and most of the people there were speaking in some form of broken english. And saying you know they're coming they're coming in. It's like what's happened while there is a jack. Booted army of Skinheads who are marching through. Campus breaking out windows And basically just attacking anyone they see in their targeting the band so the band is putting his position where they've gotta get out but their van is parked there and everything they own all their gear. Cetera these guys aren't rich by any means are Is in that fan. So they had to navigate. Army of skinheads it's descending Them escaping and getting the van out so they would some of them would be running up towards the street as a lookout. They drive the van with the lights up and then run up another street At one point his brother had actually gotten a punched in the face. By one of the skinheads and said almost knocked him through a play class will but eventually they They got out to the point where they could get back to the gig and so the concert promoters is saying so. Are you even play. And they're like what we're here to play so they decide they're gonna play this gig and as you would expect some skinheads show up to the gig and it's a question of what do we do. Now we don't want the same thing to happen With more skin ensuring the gay because at this point the The polish like riot police have entered the university. To kind of break up this whole melee. Anyway they decide. Let the guys in and as they do. they're scanning their. Id's of the skin has come in and they use them later to do a class action suit against all of them turnout to me. That is a crazy scary gig. You're taking a nap and you wake up. And it's people chanting language university and saying essentially get out now. What a nightmare. A nightmare biz story in the book. It's it's really the way he explains it. He goes into great detail. So it's gotta get if i was mci and the promoter had said so. Are you even playing the gig. That would have been my my out to go. Nope not a chance. If it was anybody but in mci they probably would have failed. If it was joe santayana. He got on the plane. What's so fun. At least as the website depicts. There are so many different types of entertainment professionals. Who've been interviewing for this you know. Just the sampler blue man group belen. Sebastian george winston you know widow windham hill guy. Yeah whitten marcellus. That's so cool. Amy man I think We think bad. Gigs happened to hardcore rock-n-rollers and things like that have happened to everybody Okay so Michael richard i I'm really going to bring it down because we're going to talk about the The station the two thousand and three great white fire at the station nightclub which just seemed i mean. Obviously it was one of the worst case for so many people. That wasn't something that just probably could have been prevented. But just so. Many things went wrong to turn it into Just this horrible tragedy from the pyrotechnics being used improperly. To people not quite believing what they were seeing people all exiting from the trying to get out of the like one exit like brenda kay. The place where they came in to Just everything involved in it from it being overcrowded. There's so many different aspects that you know if one or two things could been changed. Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad. But i guess that's what you know when a disaster or a tragedy isn't just like one one thing it's everything going wrong at once and the the managers decision to use just to start it off pyrotechnics on literally the first song. They were playing that You know some fiberglass Backing materials starts to catch fire this noxious smoke starts to fill the overcrowded nightclub which has more people than it should to bouncers not letting people out of like the stage door for the was for the band and like i remember seeing this back in the day. Just thinking god. This is so awful. It's so different than other. Huge tragedies like i was thinking about what it's like you know just that feeling of being like a crush of people one of the reasons why i've never gone into like a mosh pit. Thought i i gotta be in there with this this mass of people. This is exactly what this is like everything that could go wrong. But then you're in even smaller space. And i think that i don't know it's just it richard. Richard warned me before before we start writing like well. Let's put on at the very end so we don't forget everything down right at the beginning and so many people lost their lives and so many people went to jail. Because of it and it's it's just horrible. Yeah just so listeners. Michael knows the difference between worst. Bad gig and tragedy. Yeah so it's absolutely. I think from the not just the artists but the venue and all those people were were you you know you know that Entertainment industry in the music industry are can be challenging at times completely bankrupt if any good intent but most people go into it with the idea that they're going to Make people's lives better with entertainment somehow. Into how the op much much. The opposite happen. It just must be awful for those people involved horrifying i to think that like i think it was one of those things happened so fast that it seems like that the flames engulf the nightclub happened within like a couple of minutes and that is just for. It's just not enough time to react to anything. I think it would just reaction and panic and unfortunately so many people died. Oh yeah so is that. I you know i was thinking about this. Michael brought it up to me and it seems like anytime. There's a concert tragedy whether that that suddenly there's a reaction within the industry of oh we didn't even make sure this doesn't happen again and maybe that specific thing doesn't happen again. That feels like that then. Something else gets ignored. So whether it's the who in. Cincinnati where was festival seating and. We need to make sure that doesn't happen again. Or you know with the station fire with you. Know i. I remember it being a big deal of. We're going to gigs. They would make announcements before the gig that make sure you know we're all the exits are and it's not like that was the first big fire at a rock concert rock concert at a musical performance. You know john. Davidson was Involved in a terrible fire. And i think it was kentucky back in the seventies where a lot of people passed away unfortunately and so it just feels like the industry says that it wants to learn. Its lesson about safety but i buying it. Yeah i just. I just doesn't seem like that. That the rubbers really meeting the road Whenever the peon for that event determines if you kind of corner here then everybody's actually gonna make money than than quarter is going to get cut order. Yeah yeah wow okay. Well hey Also jeff listen. I i know that in every case that we have an expert guest on here that we're we're going down so i was taking everybody down with us. Oh michael very smart well. Michael is not incorrect in that the odds are very often stacked in the favor of our guest because they are the novel expert. Coming in and michael. And richard kind of journeyman. They deal with this whole podcast thing topic to topic week to this week. Eight no different Mr nichols came in and suitably trounced our guys he kinda jammed on the It's kind of like getting dunked on four topics in a row. You guys You john chose king shred. Joseph janni in a dalliance with malaysian army. Very kind of sad story about Graham nash singer his musical brother. David crosby fall deeper into his troubles with every show the timmins family and their record industry showcase and how how this rarely happens but gene. Simmons saves the day on that one in his personal story being in the band easter day. And leading out on stage in wichita. That was rough And then obviously the and mci of guys might have threat story so those are all you would have heard little hammer sound effects. Those are all going on the mount. Rushmore of worst gigs john jeff. It didn't even it didn't feel like we were like opening bands to john today. It felt like we were people in the parking lot handing out. Like cassettes work trunk kind of parking cars. I feel like if you're in the parking lot waving war. We were the fans from heavy metal. Parking lot the merchandise. Yeah have you seen the fall. It was like there's like neil diamond parking lot a few of them so funny so dudes. Thanks so much for doing this. School topic john. Nick him You have many hats that you wear your currently writing Journalism for a local outlets til til our listeners. Were else they can find your work. You can find my work Pretty much every week or two in the kansas city star do cover stories on entertainment film music etc And i also teach and right at the university of kansas in lawrence. Kansas right on cool. So gonna employer everybody one more time to go to worse gig dot com and you'll get a sorbet sorbet you'll get a A a moves bush. You're going to get an appetizer of stories. And then you can do yourself a favor or give a gift to a friend by going out and getting worse gig. The book which is available for all fine books are sold. So john mccain. It was great to connect with you once again. Answer fun times guys really. Yeah this has been the mount rushmore of worst. Gigs ever is always subject. I'm richard i'm michael.

malaysian army brown eminem david bowie graham nash john michael richard Howdy richard john nick David crosby John kapoor david lee roth Joe satriano johnny Back Satch boogie van halen glen helen pavilion graham Joe strimmers
The Weirdest Ways Music Pranks The Human Brain

The Cracked Podcast

58:55 min | 2 years ago

The Weirdest Ways Music Pranks The Human Brain

"Support for today's show comes from square space because they think you're neat people. Listen to the crack podcasts, have all kinds of things going on or things they're just interested in. You can build an entire website around that. So these neat things about you live online. Wouldn't that be cool launch your passion project, showcase your work, show off your writing or just be you with a unique website and a unique domain had to squarespace dot com slash cracked for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch the offer code crack to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain with all the stresses of life, it can be easy to lose perspective on what really matters. Right? But Heineken believes that life is about being with friends and opening yourself to new experiences because when you live spontaneously and you embrace the unexpected, it's a chance to create new stories and connections. You just have to be open to it. So enjoy a refreshingly cold full-bodied Heineken lager today with its deep golden color light, fruity aroma, mild bitter, taste, and a crisp clean finish. Cheers. Hey, there folks welcome to another episode of the cracks podcast, the podcasts all about why being alive is more interesting than people think it is. My name is Alex Schmidt. I'm ahead of podcasting here at cracked. I'm also known as Schmidt e the clam, and I am also also going to play you something that was the product of professional movie composers working hundreds of hours focus groups coming in and listening to it. Neuro research being part of it at won a contest with over two hundred submissions here is that work of art. Yep, that's it. There we go. That is the visa signature sound and it's something they're using for mobile payments. Now that signature sound, let's listen to that work again yet there. Yeah, that's it. And we had a great article on cracked by Jordan breeding, and it is called five weird realities of composing music for movies, and ads and Jordan spoke to many people, including Jonathan David Russell who is mainly composer of scores for indie movies, but he won a competition with visa to put that together. And you would think maybe it's strange that massive corporations are putting together all of the resources they can to get to notes, right. But the thing is, our brains are very, very responsive to even the tiniest differences in music. It influences all kinds of things we do, and that's what we're talking about today. The topic is weird ways music pranks the human brain, some of the pranks positive. Some are negative. All of them are very, very. Fun to me and we're joined by a very fun guest. Jamie brew is a comedy writer from places like click whole. He's an artificial intelligence experimental, and he's a returning guest. If you're a member an episode we did before, of course, we will food note that seek and here it too. It's an episode where we talked to the team from bought Nick, which is a comedy website that is using algorithms and predictive text to writes, comedy for humans, it's robots and people writing for people, and it's very fun. They did a fake new. Harry Potter chapter that took the internet by storm. They've done all kinds of other work, and now they're putting something together called the song you Larry, the song, clarity as an entire album of parody songs written with predictive text and algorithms, and bringing in other blocks of material. It's great. There's a footnote to it. You can find it at the song hilarity dot com. And I am really excited to talk to him about this topic because he has a unique expertise. He's a comedy. The writer he's also way into automation. And today we're talking about how the human brain is kind of a thing that puppets us. We're a little bit automated by how our brain reacts to things and decides about things, and music is extremely powerful. In that way. It's really fun. It's really scienc- and I think we have a good time of it. Why don't you have a good time listening to it? Please sit back or sit there confident that you're too smart to be pranked by your own brain. Even though you're drinking a very, very expensive wine that you bought because of Tchaikovsky. Anyway, please enjoy this episode of the crack podcast with Jamie brew. I'll be back after we wrap up talk to you them. You guys at MC made a Coachella poster. That's just one of my favorite internet images. I think we'll we'll footnote it for people so they can see it. But how did that come together? So Coachella was coming up. Someone in the ranks knew about Coachella and thought this would be a good visual format that everyone knows about that we could rip out its guts and put in new computer generated guts, and we tried for that poster, a new method that we hadn't really used a lot before, which is to use a computer program called a neural network. That scans a bunch of texts and learns about the character sequences. So just learns which letter is come after other letters most frequently and are normal methods of generating words are already pretty dumb, but Nurul nets don't even know about full words. They're just going down to letter by letter predict. Of the next most likely letters in a word and band names are fertile ground for this, I guess because they don't have such a high bar of of making sense in the first place. So I think it's easy to believe that just about anything is abandoned name. And what we did was we had this neural net spit out thousands and thousands of band names, and then we went through it as a group and picked out some fans that seemed most promising or that they would have the most the longest careers in we put him on this poster. I love that it automates down to the ladder. I didn't know that about it. That's the best because this poster here the headliners if people don't know about cutch outlets usually three day festival with three headliners and then about a billion bands below them. And so the headliners for this version of at our fans, one. Of pig and Lil hack, which they all are kind of uncanny, they feel real lay. As I looked down this, I would believe there's a band called John party times for or a band called Bush. Fuck because I already listened to bands like Portugal, the man, his golden messenger, you know, just lots of bands that have real names, but they just kind of mean whatever people feel like, yeah, they feel is real to me as most bands that I feel. Which is very real. I think bantered they're real well, and I and I like this too as a sideway and to kind of the main thing we're talking about today, which is the ways that news it can prank the human brain. And I feel like much like ban names Ken, just feel real. If a neural networks spits them out letter by letter, our brains will fall for a lot they, they will be on board for just about anything music wants them to be on board for is that is that creepy? I don't know. I, I don't know how to feel about it. Exactly. I think music is just it's really impressive. It's doing a lot of stuff all at once and so I'm ready to be praying when there's so much going on it. One of the parts of it isn't quite right, that's fine. And I think that's probably a rabbit hole that leads to it leads to bad things for me if I trust music too much. Right? You're going to be like pants by music or it's gonna like candid camera you somehow just gone about your day. Yeah, and it's everywhere. There's music in. In the cities that we walk around it. There's music in the words we speak to each other. There's a really loose definition of music that I think people like to use when they're speaking poetically. So there's that it's more efficient that way to, you know, people say the music of New York. That's interesting. I don't. I don't hear a lot of people say that, but I had a professor once who he, he was an old jazz musician, and he was also teaching a comedy TV writing. So he's had quite a life and he expressed his idea that you can look at basically any stand up comedian and look at it like music. Like just each of them are playing their instrument and their way where there are specific consistent rhythms that you get used to. I guess, cities are like that too, and so many other things. Yeah, I think music is it. It's really inviting for someone who wants to make a comparison between their art form and some other art form. Because once you have enough experience, you feel at ease. I bet you start thinking this is really easy, and this is I'm really just fitting a few of the same simple pieces together. There's a formula to this. It's so obvious in music that there's only twelve notes that we really use in the melody. That leads us into a fun example here got this one from a great cracked article called five ways. Your taste in music has scientifically programmed by Christie, Harrison and Chris rat a mile. I learned from it that our brains are sort of hardwired to recognize musical notes as sad or happy. And I feel like on the face of it that sounds just sort of normal. But like you say, j. music all boils down to just a handful of notes, and that's all we've got there have been various studies done, and then also just our own experiences testing it out. Oddly major and minor keys will have extremely clear moods to us, even though the difference between a major and minor key is literally three notes. That's I feel sad when listened. With music. That's trying to be said. I think it seems like it just works and maybe it has something to do with whether or not it fits together or whether or not you're able to figure out what's going on. If you're really confident that you have a piece of music figured out in an throws a note at you that you weren't expecting that's jarring and it's jarring maybe in like a smaller way than it is when you think your life is figured out and life there is something unexpectedly at you, right. It's still it's still stores for, like you say, it's a smaller effect, then some huge life event. But if I the more I think about it feels bigger than it should be like, it's just notes. It's just tones at a pitch, but it is a completely jarring and weird. And let's let's get jarring right now because we've got a clip here of some joker on YouTube has sat down at a piano and they've taken further lease by Beethoven, which is a song I think all of you listening at home. No. And if you don't, you'll hear it. And you'll be like, oh, yeah, you know, but here's him playing the song in its actual key. I'll talk over a little bit because you know it, but this is him playing it in the key of a minor. And Yep recognizable, right? Everybody knows this song. He's on YouTube. He doesn't need the compliments is fine. Now here he goes. And now our hearing. Is aid h. And it sounds soon. But that is so strange to me because the only difference between a major and a minor is that is three nights a major has see sharp sharp, and g sharp, a minor flips those. I believe to all see natural natural g a natural, and that's all it takes to make that song sound completely bizarre to me. Right? It's it's so weird that our brains can make that flip on so little, right? Yeah. When you only have a handful of notes even going on in the first place and you switch three of them it, it's like putting it in a whole different language in. Yeah, it sounds happier. It sounds like a completely different song with there's there's science about it that sort of argues one way or the other, how much do you think like when we hear major and we think happier, it's like partly our brains, recognizing they do you think maybe there's also a cultural component, like I feel like we're yes. Every time I heard someone play something happy before every time I heard someone plays something major. It was in a happy context and so I'm gonna remember those happy context. Yeah, I think that would be that would have been my, I guess. But I think from reading the primary materials, it sounds like there's something more to it than that. Yeah, because that's there have been studies done with a group of people called the Simona people who are a tribe in the Amazon rainforest, and so they are were relatively untouched by, you know, the like Beethoven and television, and so on that you and I have, and that group could both tell very easily that there was a strong difference between major and minor keys, but also the studied, didn't find that they put any sort of value judgment on them. They weren't like, oh, the minor ones definitely sadder. The major ones definitely happier. They just definitely knew that they were listening to two different types of music. And so it's, I don't know a lot of this psychology stuff is stuff where. There's no total control group or total like vacuum. You can do it in as I just find that fascinating too, that it's sorta hard to pin down exactly how much is cultural or just flat out our brains tricking us. Yeah, it makes me wanna live in a culture where it's the opposite and were minor is the thing you play it, weddings and happy is the thing you play when the villain enters the frame. I wanna see. I wanna see store. Whereas with the theme I. Luke zooming in the death star, and triumphing. You've got the imperial March or whatever. My my brain specifically job to Star Wars, sue. That's. I think it's just like the most. It's the most over the top of like, there's a good team and there's a bad theme. Maybe it's because it's such a, it's such a new world that you need to be reminded. These are the good people, and these are the bad people. But I think you've got, you've got a lot of that going on. And it's also like costume and cultural markers like Darth Vader is in head to toe black, which is not evil on its face unless you live in, I guess western culture would call it where we're black is evil. You know, it's such a, they're doing every single thing. So on the nose, it's great. It works that way when you're in a key and music, and if one note is out of key, it sounds really weird. Well, let's let's keep looking at things that just will puppet your brain if you hear them right? Because we've got the incredible major minor key difference, but then there's also something that has a lovely, lovely name called the Torah. And that is a musical term basically for moving from dissonance two consonants you, you briefly go into a note that doesn't fit and. Like you were just saying Jamie, the brain immediately feels off balance. If a single notice is out of key or or a different tone and just overtime, composers and music songwriters have found that if you do in podge eter if you move one note out of the key and then right back in that gives people a level of comfort, but also it helps you write sad songs, which is amazing. Yeah, it sounds like a great trick. Do we have? Do we have an example to play? Yeah, we do. So there's one of the just greatest singer songwriters of all time as names Kermit the frog and here's Kermit playing one part of the song rainbow connection and listen to the middle part of the word connection. The the neck part. Find the rainbow connection. The lovers, the next part there at kinda dips out, right? It's a little bit off. Yeah. When he goes dissident for moment, I hate Kermit the frog. Back. But the hormone is finish. I feel I feel like that's how Sam eagle listens to that suck. He's like, so mad about what the hell are you doing Kermit you'd better be going somewhere with this. Oh, it was an apology tour. And that's it comes up across all kinds of other music to in the cracked article. They draw on Adele quite a bit. The song someone like you basically constantly has a positive as and so that that sudden tension of going out. And then back in is very powerful in a sad song, or even rainbow connection is just sort of, you know, sort of more influence sweet to me. It's not sad sad, but songwriters have figured out over time that they can just do that in music to make us feel a certain way. And that's a single note difference. That's just it's just amazing. It's great. I can't get enough of Budgie a tour. It was the one that the article mentioned from a while ago in an opera the Tristan chord. Is this another example of a Pasi tour or am I jumped ahead? It might be, I, I know very little about opera. I know only as much about opera, as I read from this article. Maybe one other, and there's this one chord that is famous in opera music and maybe classical music in general. That is something called at half diminished. Seventh. And when you get this half diminished, seventh, you've got all sorts of distance going on inside it. The famous use of this cord is when only part of that distance results and you get a cord, that sort of sounds good and feels like a step up, but it's still got weird stuff going on in there. And this is called the Tristan chord because it was in an opera about tristen and is old if I'm saying that, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is that that's? That's Wagner opera now. I think I'm remembering that's so impressive to me because it seems to be a famous cord, and it's famous just for the notes that are in it in like we were talking about before when you only have a few notes to play with and you're able to write a combination of those that becomes famous throughout history for being the weirdest comp. Nation of notes that still works. It's gotta be something you're proud of if you're Faulkner. Yeah, really well, and especially in an opera context where when I say I know very little about opera, I do know a lot about opera in the context of Bugs Bunny and that opera when they like when they use Barbara of Seville or when they use Wagner, it's it's sort of matched very, very closely to all the action. And so there must have been very pleased to come up with a cord that elicited such an emotional feeling when at the same time it needed to support a story. It must be incredibly effective in the story of whoever tristen on his soul. Dr Who could. No, I don't know. Yeah, I think they were in love. Yeah, probably that's something something bad must have happened. 'cause that cord played. Why an in the intro talked about the song Laryea which is great project. You guys have coming together about nine people should support it. Also one step back. How much experience do you have with composing music? Jamie? Like how much of you done that? Well, I've written a bunch of songs on guitar, and I take her own with the piano sometimes, but I've never taken a composing course. So not that much, you know a lot of songs in the same way that anyone with a guitar that is just lying around and it's sometimes in their room as written a lot of songs, and I took piano lessons as a kid, it it never really caught on that much. And then when I stopped taking panelists, I started liking playing piano more because there was no deadline. That was one of those kids. It's so strange how music is almost more appealing for just fooling around. And then when it when it gets serious, it's much harder. I think it's nice to have taken those lessons. I'm curious with the with the singularity who or which computer did the writing because these are parodies of songs, but also driven by algorithms and the way that about Nick does so much of its comedy. Well of the songs are written using voice box, which is the same predictive text tool. We use for many of our web things. It was what we used to write the Harry Potter chapter and it's what we used to write a bunch of scripts. And that works really similarly to predictive text feature on your phone in that it suggests likely next words in the context of whatever source material you feed it right with many of these songs clarity, songs, we're taking two genres or two source texts and combining them. So we'll ask it to suggest words. Are likely in a fifty fifty combination from Bob Dylan and negative yelp reviews of restaurants or the lead single was Morrissey plus Amazon customer reviews of the p ninety x workout system. This is a bunch of those mashups and then there are some songs that are using other methods. There's a neural nets long in there where we traded it on a ton of country music, and then just let it spit out a bunch of lines and sorted them by rhyme and fit together. The lines that Bryant rhymed at the most and seemed to make the most sense. That's amazing. Well, and it also as I hear that, that sounds weirdly similar to apparently how a lot of just regular pop music has come together because in the in that same cracked article, they look at something called the million song data set, which took basically all of the pop hits from nineteen fifty five to today and ran them sort of reverse, ran them through an algorithm to check their Timberlake variety, which is how much just sort of a different tone and pitch, and melody is in the music you could call it how interesting the music is. And. Not only did it find that songs would tend to match up with each other year to year, but also they've been getting less and less and less variety over time. The line basically peaks in the nineteen sixties and then goes down to today, and it sorta suggests that consciously or not everybody's writing to a formula or an algorithm as they've made pop music over the decades. Well, that makes a lot of sense to me. It sounds like we're getting closer to the right song. We've been trying to ride on for years and years, and we're probably getting really close. And so this just reaffirms my belief that the song hilarity is close the time when we will be able to automatically generate songs that are better than any song we could right as a person, and we should keep plugging and keep trying to combine these different lyrics and we should all invest in companies that are doing their part to bring about the song Garrity. I love the idea of us being done. That's the best. Well, doesn't that sound great? No end the pain of the artist. Right? They've been screwing around like with Pia knows and guitars, it really hurts your fingers, you know? And then you have to figure out like where to put Wiley, Coyote in the story. It's a whole deal. Yeah. Well, not as we look at just sort of more ways. Music can kind of operate us. We, we looked at that million signed data set just now there's also a study that scientific American wrote up where the study found that brain scans can a little bit predict pop hits. They took a group of people and loaded them up into MRI scanners and said, okay, let's see what happens. This was at Emory University. They were doing the study and they took children and put them in an MRI scanner and had them listen to a big variety of basically potential future pop hits, and then they tracked the kids brains and also how the songs did over three year period. And they found that the songs that performed better with. Public tended to stimulate the nucleus accumbens region of the brain, which is a is one study by one group of people also potentially amazing, right? They found Bill like button that makes us like music. It's always good to find a button that does something inside the brain exciting, someone discovers one of those I noticed in the article, it was full of disclaimers about, well, you know a lot of these studies that find the miracle area of the brain that does this thing. They turn out to be methodologically flawed or something, but this one seems pretty good, but maybe not, but wouldn't it be cool and having studied neuroscience or having studied cognitive neuroscience, I should be better equipped to tease apart credible. This is, but it's really exciting to think about how deep have you gone in studying nursing? Well, I studied it in to graduate. So I got a degree in cognitive neuroscience, which is some. Where between psychology and neuroscience and mostly did pay Vural stuff. So didn't get deep into brain imaging, but got deep enough to know what this article disclaims disclaims which is became awful. When there seems to be an area of the brain that is outrageously specific. I met a few people who studied something similar on an undergrad, grad level, and they all these articles give them the willies. They really, they really, really don't like it. They're like, no, we don't. We don't know where anything is located in the brain, please don't say that. But also this one study thinks maybe we found the button. It's it's an interesting field that I feel like we're still working out of exactly what triggers the brain where, but it is the as we look at other stuff here too. They're, they're interesting just sort of theories about neural pathways being key to the music. We like almost as an accident of timing or or just physical development, which is a meeting. Yeah, there's there's so many things going on in the brain. The willies is a good word to put to it. It thinks that the fear is like whenever we even look at something or here's something there's this so much that happens that it's hard to pull apart when I mentioned neural pathways before at the same article picks out a thing that it might be brain architecture or it might just be cultural and and it's it's hard to pin down. But a few people have theorized that our music preferences kinda get locked in, not just when we're young, but specifically right around age fourteen, which is quite specific, I feel, but there's a Columbia professor named David, hey, do who's just looked kind of across the history of twentieth century music and found that a lot of our biggest musicians based on their age and also based on their own statements and interviews happened to hear the right influential thing when they were fourteen years old. And that kind of steered their whole career. 'cause in he didn't article in the New York Times about it. He claimed that Elvis's first hits were in nineteen fifty five and nineteen fifty-six, and those years lined up with the exact ages of Bob Dylan. Paul McCartney John Lennon Joan Baez Brian Wilson Lou Reed Jimi Hendrix and Jerry Garcia where all either fourteen or fifteen in fifty five and fifty six. And so that worked out for them. And then he even cites Bob Dylan saying that the Elvis song mystery train in nineteen fifty five when he was fourteen was a huge influence on them. And that also Paul McCartney had a dad who led jazz big bands and was way into the Trump at until he heard heartbreak hotel when he was fourteen years old and then it just flipped. And he was like, I'm done. I'm a rock musician now because my brain received a that's murderers row of other musical influences. I wonder what the bumper years for the two thousand czar he is. I actually I was trying to math that out and sitting around with it and Kanye west has said that tribe called quest was one of his biggest influences and they put out there Elbaum low end theory when Kanye was fourteen, which is one of their biggest ones and then kind you put out graduation in two thousand seven, which is when people like chance the rapper and Vince Staples were fourteen, I was doing all kinds of like timeline stuff in in in my place. It was great. I guess we do for the ADA weights and heartbreaks wave to hit yet let fourteen year old benchmark resonates with me when I'm asked, what bands do you like? What? What influences do you have in whatever music you've written? I think I cast around for awhile and can't think of any bands. And then I'd say something that I was listening to one of his fourteen which is usually the strokes. I love the strokes with this age. Fourteen thing like if there is a brain architecture part to it, cognitive psychologist, Daniel Levitin has said that right around that age. We have a lot of just growth hormones from puberty. And other things going on in the body that caused a lot of construction in the brain. You know, there's all very vague. They're still figuring it out, but there could be some kind of architectural component to either way. I feel like a lot of what we like musically is an accident of what culture was doing at that very, very specific age. It's it's sort of a a weird late. Like what if you grow up when pocus peaking, you know then then you're into polka, that's it done. Yeah, you're kind of time capsule gets to talk about one thing and Phil teacher generations. Would it used to be like, like when polka was cool? It's a weighty responsibility. Support for today's show comes from squarespace, and, hey, you're, you know, you're great. We, we don't say it enough more people should be. A lot of them are thinking it, but they're just not saying it out loud partly because you may have headphones on. So they don't want to disturb you, which is very polite of them. You're in a good space with those people but enough about them. Let's get back to you. You can build a website with squarespace that comes from template created by world class designer, right? So it's something that they have made sure will look great and feel great for you on the internet, but you can also customize it to be exactly you, and that's the best of both worlds. That's exactly what you want. It only takes a few clicks to do it to. There's not any kind of intensive coding or other things you would imagine a hacker doing. You know, no. You'll just build a squarespace website and a very chill way that you'll enjoy. It's also optimized for mobile right out of the box. So the website will look good on people's phones which is super critical these days. That's where people are using the internet. 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And I made a show called hilarious helmet history that is on Amazon prime channels. You can dial it up just like a show on any kind of streaming service and watch it right through with a great player, integrate experience. And I love doing that show. I wear a fun helmet related to the history. Period that breakdown misconceptions about, for instance, the movie three hundred told you that the Persian empire was a bunch of crazy things. It's not why don't you find out what it actually is by watching hilarious helmet history and having a great time with me, that guy, you know, sh midday the clam. Wouldn't that be fun and prime video channels? Let you build whatever TV lineup you want from all kinds of premium and specialty services like Showtime, Starz HBO CBS I'll access noggin PBS kids, PBS masterpiece acorn TV Brit box. And of course, hilarious helmet history from cracked starring Alex Schmidt. I know that's what I would watch if I was very focused on myself, but you should watch it because you're not me. And again, you can watch prime video channels through the prime subscription that you already have on over six hundred fifty connected devices or online at Amazon dot com. So only pay for the channels you want with prime video channels. Start your free trial of over one hundred channels by visiting try prime channels dot com slash cracked that is try prime channels dot com slash cracked. To start your free trial of over one hundred channels with prime video chance. When we, we've had a lot of like sort of broad things of how we work as people. There's also like very basic just tricks music can do as a cracked article here called the five weirdest ways. Music can mess with the human brain by c. cove Ellen, Kathy Benjamin and one thing they get into is food. It turns out the music that's playing can influence the food. We eat Jamie. Do you feel that's true to sit in your own personal experience? Like when I go to restaurants, I feel like I don't notice it, but maybe it's going on. I don't notice it either, but I don't notice a lot of things, and I think music as we talked about before, it has plenty of avenues to try to lead you to things. So I wouldn't put it past music that devil. Yeah, yeah. If we look at drinking, like I, I don't drink a lot of line. I'm not very into it, but people who do really try to pick out, oh, it has this and that flavor tone. And you know, like I, I swear it around and I analyzed it like a character in a film. And then I then I discover it right. That's a whole thing. And the BBC reported on a study where researchers also, I love how some scientific studies feel like just elaborate. Pranks researchers took a group of people and they had them try wines while one of four different kinds of music was played. They either heard occur Meena Borana by Carl ORF, which is an incredibly heavy medieval thing about like fate. You know, it's very, very harsh. They also listen to the waltz of the flowers from the nutcracker by hausky they listen to just can't get enough by nouvelle vague, which is an upbeat piece. And then they listen to a piece called slow breakdown by Michael brook, which is mellow and soft, and then people. Title reported drastically different characteristics of the wine. They were drinking depending on which music listening to. Yeah, this makes sense. This is the wine. Yeah, I, I would imagine that I want my wine tasting to rhyme somehow with the music, whether that's but being a mellow and soft wine that pairs with a mellow and soft music. Right. Is that how it worked? Yeah, people would here for instance, powerful and heavy music of Karmiel Borana and then whatever. Why? And they were drinking. They would be like, oh, this has a very heavy element to it. Oh yeah. And they, they would do that swirl thing that makes you makes you seem like you know, wine a whole thing? Yeah, music is very confidence building. It lets you solidify your opinions about wine, I guess. And then they also the researchers took people aside afterward and gave them questionnaires to just check whether they notice what the music was that was playing and people did not notice. They forgot her, didn't pay attention. And then meanwhile, it was like putting their brain to make them think the wine tasted a certain way. We're such fools. In the contest between music and people. Music has us and also then with food cracked article, the five, weirdest things that influence how your food tastes by Adam wears. They have found that if a restaurant is playing very, very loud music, it makes it harder for our brains to tell whether the food is we'd or salty. It just tastes like kind of food in a very, very capital left Broadway, which is amazing. And then also another study like a well, Jamie, you and I like what would be like ideal just music to eat food to think. Right. Like if he could be eating anything in a pleasant setting, what would be like some nice music? We'll be a good soundtrack. I would like a drumbeat that is just once every beat like a like a serpent with a drum. Like let's palace. Yeah. Standing there hitting the drum once every beat for beat the measure. That sounds nice and simple. I I'd also go with no music or the Beatles. Those are the three options. Yeah, I would go Beatles too. I think they've done studies where they've found that if a restaurant plays relatively neutral music at a specific volume matching human conversation, which is sixty two to sixty seven decibels. No one knows decibels. Just trust that that's human conversation level. It makes the food taste better. And so that's why in most sit down restaurants, they will be playing music at like a pretty medium volume that you can kind of talk over. But also here whether or not they know what they're playing the appropriate level of music to make you like their food more. It sounds really plausible and it sounds like the more and more of these tricks that people discover the more likely will all be to head toward the one song that the average of all song I can start to understand better. The study that found me. Music was converging or music was becoming more and more predictable. How often do you listen to the radio? Because I tend not to listen to like top forty radio very often. I think it's almost only when I'm in my friends cars. I think I rarely listen to the radio any other time, and I don't have a car myself. So that's like once a month? Yeah, right. It's also social, isn't it? I feel like I've been in cars with friends sometimes and they'll be playing just regular radio, and I'll wonder like, do they want to listen to this or are they just playing the music that we've kind of democratically agreed to, you know, yeah, considerate play music that you think others will listen to, but if everyone starts acting that way, then I think that will that will be an averaging for us to. Yeah, when because let's a, this is one other clip here. This was made by a site called quartz, and they are sort of dialing into one specific thing that's been happening lately. And music, which is the millennial whoop is the kind of fun name of it, and we will hear it in, I don't know seven or eight songs in a row very quickly here. It's recognizable right that like, oh, yeah, taken without the backing track. It sounds like the noise of slow understanding like. Oh, like you're constantly getting new information and and getting it. I love that the first one was California Gurls. By Katy Perry, I love the idea that it's a song about her discovering stuff about women from California. Let's great. Yeah, I mean, or in really broad strokes, discovering that the chorus is what needed to be here. The chorus feels right for this song. I wonder how conscious the writers of the millennial whoop songs are of using that reference. When they see an article about it feels almost like the author of the article is saying, you're all the same. You millennials, you've fall into this pattern. I have your number. But I think more generous way of seeing it would be well, that's just code for we're cool and we're young may maybe that's not that much more generous. I don't know now I like it. Why people should be more generous with the term millennial in general? I feel I only ever see it written up as code for like young jerks or like some kind of negative tone. I really don't like it that whoop and music. That's interesting question. You bring up of our composers aware of that. And I, I would tend to feel like they are aware of it just because we'll, we'll footnote this, this courts video. It's great and short and breaks it down very well in terms of the architecture of this whoop, it's sort of a triad. It's moving from the fifth note of the scale to the third note of the scale back to the fifth back to the third back to the first batch of the third. And so that's such a straightforward musical structure to write that. I would be surprised if composers are just kind of accidentally landing on it. You know, I feel like they either hurt. It it in a song or figured it out, and they were like, oh, this is a pleasant, very simple back and forth. Yeah. I always wonder about how often you would overlap melodies just by random chance. And I usually want to give people the benefit of the doubt because it seems so easy to do when you have such few places you can hit. It's obviously, in this case, it's become more common. I guess it feels unconscious to me. I don't. I also don't know if these songwriters would stake any of their honor or. If they would care or if they would say. Sure. Yeah, that's I'm using that reference in. That's fine. I think I often come across songs that sound very similar in the melody. It seems very unintentional. I think you're right, and you're not just being charitable like you're also it's it's how this stuff works a lot. Well, I I don't know about you, but also in comedy, I feel like either as I'm writing something or I see someone else tweeting something and then they find out they're just often be similar joke in the world. There's all kinds of parallel thinking it's called happening all the time. Yeah, it comes up a lot in comedy. And if you think that the same joke can be made and happened independently, I think you've got to think the same thing happens for music. He actually the last. The last parallel joke I saw was somebody did a tweet where they said, I don't want to get too inside baseball, but and then it was just a an attached picture of a baseball cut in half. So you can see the core and the layers of this literally. Inside of baseball, and then somebody else popped up and said, man, I hate to say this, but I did that. And then I think somebody else jumped into. So it was a cascading series of everybody thought of this literal inside baseball joke and no one wasn't a, yes, it's just how it went. In comedy. It seems even clearer that comes just from this coincidence was in the world, and you found it in its upon or it's a joke. They were couple of topics that had to do with noticing coincidences between different music. And I remembered that I had this document of that matches up with other music even if it's just for a Barra to, and this is the kind of stuff that makes me think I should forgive everyone who seems to be coughing and other musician. I one on the list is military madness by Graham Nash of Crosby Stills, Nash, and young and young. Thank you. He was another. He was Graham Nash of Nash. So he has a song code military madness that begins with the melody, Anna upstairs room in Blackpool in the upstairs room in Blackpool. And that sounds to me very much like the opening line of so fresh and so clean by outcasts. Body dope says me on. And you know that dude, dude, he just wasn't thinking of Graham Nash when they wrote well, maybe they were maybe I should level an accusation, but it really doesn't feel that way. It's also the kind of thing where I guess you never quite know to like there's do you know that story about George Harrison and his song, my sweet Lord where it may or may not have been subconsciously plagiarized, and he he ended up just admitting it. He was like, maybe I got it there. I don't know. Yeah. Well, it's it's never clear what the burden of proof is. What is what would it mean to do something subconsciously or a semi consciously? I listened to the songs. Yeah, they sound pretty similar. I wouldn't be surprised if he had heard that song and then unconsciously used the melody ticket. Compose the new one at the song. He's so fine by the chiffon in nineteen sixty three. And then George Harrison put out on his solo album. It was a song called my sweet Lord in one thousand nine hundred seventy. So you know, there's some. Close to each other in time and a few months after Harrison song came out the publisher of he's so fine sued and the judge found in nineteen seventy six. He does the judge said that Harrison subconsciously copied it no intention there, but he just probably heard it and it probably snuck in there and and what do you do? The brain is weird. That's that's quite a prank where you get sued and lose a case that that's a big one filling. It'd be legally pranked by anyone. There's also an interesting thing that I feel is very applicable to the song hilarity because Daniel Levin who we mentioned before he has a book called, this is your brain on music, and he says that one amazing thing. Our brains can do not only can they repeatedly enjoy these sort of things like the millennial loop the keep coming up. They're also very, very good at noticing when timber varieties lineup, and that helps us understand parody songs like our brains are when you think about it pretty impressive that they can easily connect a parody of a song to the original song or the original musician that's like pretty advanced work. Yeah, it there's a, there's a lot to ignore if you're going to just lock in on the things that's common between the parody and the original. And sometimes those qualities are really easy to define, but there's just a lot of them going on at once. So you can say, well, what's happening when weird Al right's parody song, he's taking. The melody and the rhythm, and maybe some of the like the phonetic structure of the original song. Yeah. And then writing something else that has a totally new meaning and says something else entirely on top of it. And those first three things are enough to guide you back to the reference and the music itself. The instrumentation, our brains also even go a step further with stuff like the lonely island jumps to mind. Like the song I'm on a boat is not quite a direct reference to anything. It's it's sort of a reference to the big pimp and music video for the Jay z. song, but it's not. It's not an aide to be like we took big pimp and put in new lyrics. It's just here's the general vibe of this John RIA and the overall like emotional tone to it, and somehow it's a specific parody of all of it because our brains are cool. There. Very neat. Yeah, you can go super abstract or you can go super concrete, and you recognize both as a reference to something about this music you know about in we've been doing at botany, both of those kinds of things. We have one approach to song generation that is mostly what we use for the song. Clarity where we take the words from one source in some words from another, and we write a song that fits in genre like or fits in a musical style, but isn't direct melody takeoff for Morrissey. So the Morris song is it sounds kinda Smith city. It's got really amazing production from these studio. Musicians studio meow meow in Seattle that they produced this song to sound exactly like the Smiths, but the words are about something else entirely there about this workout system as it's more as a singing about DVD and you can go. Like that where it's a kind of abstract style match or you can take a little song and then do what when we do algorithm McClay we called, we call this approach the weird algorithm of just taking the Milli of song and switching in new words that match phonetically in metrically, and that's a different way to go about it. That's amazing. I also, I feel like this stuff maybe makes us smarter too. It's like a positive prank. You know, like I actually, I have a friend who they have a story where they were a kid and they would prank their parents by their parents would ask them to clean their room, and they was sorta hide in their room and pretend to be refusing to do it, and then they would secretly be cleaning their room and that was the reveal that high did clean my room. I Gotcha. Which is a wonderful, positive prank. And with music there have been a few studies. There was one in twenty ten at northwestern where they found that they took. People who were expert musicians and people who had never played music and sort of scan them and study them and found that the people who had learned to play music were better at processing speech, and they were also less distracted by simple sounds around them when that happened. And so I don't know. That's music kind of tricking them into being better communicators and more present people. Amazing, great. It's a even-handed trickster music. It. Away from us and it gives, yeah, I like to think that music has been a positive trickster in my life. I like to think that by exposing myself to music. Lawrenson lessons along the way too. That's very sweet. I like that. 'cause yeah, it is. It's like there's the sort of broad emotional component to there's also a lot of stuff about music making us stronger and not just in a basic way. Well, like like Jamie when you work out, do you listen to music? I almost think of it as like, I don't listen to pop music very much. So when I'm at the gym, I should use this as a chance to to research the current state of pop and become cooler, figuring out what. What's popular right now. And I guess it's it's my wave, not falling completely out of touch, but I don't think it works. It's like Jim anthropology. Jim Musicology the music of the people who are at the gym. I do that with the TV's there sometimes too. Like I'll just see what people are watching, and I'll be like, okay, chip and Joanna Gaines are extremely popular. Now I know. Interesting, and I think subconsciously think now I should. I should make efforts to look a little more like these people are just saw on TV. And then as far as that music, you're listening to in the gym, there's all kinds of ways that music apparently helps us work out according to various studies for one thing. Just having a beat to work out to means you have less cognitive load of figuring out a beat to move your body at. You can just let that happen, which I think sounds pretty seems pretty intuitive hearing it. But it also is very, very good at decreasing, how much pain we feel another great, positive prank. Thank you, music, pushing it. Yeah, I wonder how that works. I, I noticed that a lot of the music at the gym has some seem around. They didn't think I was going to be able to. Do it, and now I'm fighting through and I'm stronger than ever before. And that seems very appropriate for the gym. That's like that's almost back to honor. Like I've found this specific cord for tristen fields, but but but the gym is doing it. This is going to be out of date by the time this is. But tonight in New York, we're doing a a weird algorithm Kariuki cover of eye of the tiger where we switch out. I have the tiger for new lyrics about college. Admissions essays seems tied together there as well. I know I suddenly intro, but folks in the footnotes, you can check out this stuff or at least the parts that are online so far. Great. There's also in terms of like music making paint easier or stress easier. There's one study that was reported in time magazine where they found that people were experimenting with letting patients here music when they were having unseated brain surgeries, so like you're awake, but you're anesthetized and your brain is being is having surgery happened to it, and they found that thing that happened more frequently with people. Listening to music is that they would be so calm that they just kind of fell asleep, which is a standing to me, like I know it's a long surgery. I know. You're just sitting there and not supposed to do anything but falling asleep from just being extremely calm while your brain is being operated on, maybe I just I'm not in the world of brain surgery enough, but that's astounding. It sounds like there's a few characters in this story that are trying to prank the human brain, and music is only one of them, but maybe music wins the day. I would not like to participate in this study. I'll let them let them poke around up there, man, what maybe they find something I would prefer. Not to do it. That was the that was the most polite way to turn down unnecessary brain surgery. That's great. Folks that is the episode for this week, my thanks Jamie brew for helping the pull together and pull apart all kinds of different songs. And that was very fun. I think to discover, especially that Graham Nash and outcast might be related. I now in my head, there's CS NY. Oh, right. That's what I want. I want that out there in the world and also just the drama that that'd be very fun. Here's something else dramatic for you. Our food notes are loaded with all kinds of cracked articles that we drew on today and other studies and researches. Well, also the song you, Larry, if you go to the song clarity dot com, you can contribute to their Kickstarter in exchange for a very fun. Very soon album of parody music. And Jamie mentioned a lot of the songs that they're doing that Morrissey one is particularly fun. I highly recommend listening to it. We will also footnote that previous episode where we had Jamie brew. L. O'Brian and Michael Frederickson from the team about Nick. And we talked about their fake Harry Potter chapter, which is just fantastic and lots of other things. They're doing that tied together humanity and automation into something super positive. I think we're scared of automation all the time. It's nice to find out that it can also be an artistic tool for comedy, and that's what we talk about. Their one other fun thing about Batna. They do live shows of automated comedy. You can see them September twenty. First in Chicago, you can see them October sixth in Seattle, and you can see them October nineteenth in San Francisco, join their mailing list to find out more. And when I say mailing list, I mean Email, why would I describe it? Like they're sending you letters. It's the future speaking live shows. We did one this past weekend, and that was so fun. I, I now feel like we did a better Emmys that only our friends in the audience know about, you will hear that show in the next few weeks in our feet. And thanks again to Dana Gould, Haley Mancini and Demi outage. We bay. For coming out and making that such a fun time, more info on more live shows of ours soon. And some more info on this show. Our theme music is Chicago. Falcon. By the Budo span, our episode was engineered by Devon Bryant and edited by Chris Sousa. If you love this episode, that is great. If you hate it, let me know about it on social media. That's right. Social media, a space full of seemingly real people. Some of whom are bought s- some of those whom are comedy writers from bottleneck. It's turtles all the way down at this point just robot turtles, which would be fun anyway, you'll find my Twitter account at Alex Schmidt. I'm also on the wider internet at my website, Alex committee dot com. That's got my show dates my newsletter and more and I'm happy to say we will be back next week with more crack podcast about that. Talk to you them. This has been ear will production executive produced by Scotsman, Chris Bannon, and Colin Anderson for more information content, visit ear, wolf dot com. Hey, everybody here from the award winning podcast. Never not funny. Hey, if you haven't checked us out in a while or if you've never listened to us read a lot of phone over here with the great guest, including this gentleman, Mr. Conan O'Brien. What don't you like this week? Not up at all. Good for me at this stage in my life. My, I'm in my late thirties. Good. Line, could you look horrible of your third. I think that's what they're laughing at ridiculous thirty because you look like you're death's door. Like a gourd that's been riding. Yeah. So you've seen your all right? Yeah, I when I in the morning when I wake up and I look in the mirror, I think why hasn't someone thrown away that old Halloween, pumpkin. And you listen to that on the best of park cast on two thousand eighteen episode and a whole lot more of never not funny right here on air wolf or wherever you get your podcasts.

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127: Foreign Influence

How Good It Is

12:30 min | 5 months ago

127: Foreign Influence

"Hello, and welcome to the next episode of how good it is the show that takes a closer look at songs from the Rock and roll era, and we check out some of the stories behind the songs and the artists who made them famous. Mine is Claude Colin. I've been kind of. Pop In my head to the theme music this week remember to check out the website how good it is dot com and the twitter and Instagram, and of course, a facebook page, which you can find over at facebook dot com slash. How how good it is bad. And if you can afford it, please consider supporting the show as a patron for just five dollars a month you get the weekly newsletter with the weeks music news a little bit of my opinions and history calendar just a diversionary a little. Thank you on my part click the link on the website or point your browser to. On Dot com slash how good it is. You know it's been a while since I did this let me give a shout out to the folks over at podcast republic, which is had this show in its featured selection for very long time, I and the responsible for a bunch of you finding me. So podcast republic, it's one of the more innovative APPs out there for listening to podcasts your podcast is. Frustrating you or if you just in the market for one, well, bio means checkout podcast republic by clicking the link on my page. I have no idea whether you're going to find this week's trivia question to be easy or hard but here we go. What do the following musicians have in common and we have Paul Rogers Eric Burden Graham Nash and Paul Charac what do all of those guys have in common. I will have that answer for ye at the end of the show. I've been on a little bit of a kick lately with the songs that have foreign lyrics in the not like I did back episode fifty which focused on songs that were entirely or nearly so not in English but on songs worry line or verse isn't in English and today we're GONNA peak at a couple more songs than that. John Mara. Genre. is now I guess and I'm willing to bet that for a couple of them anyway, you're going to be a little bit surprised. So I'm going to start by telling you a little bit about a movie from nineteen sixty called lay us vs large. It's a horror film, but it's not a gory one. There are a lot of humanistic themes in it. It's about a gifted plastic surgeon who is involved in a car accident which badly disfigured has beautiful daughter. The surgeon begins to kidnap young women so that he can remove their faces and graph them onto his daughter to restore her looks, and because the graphs keep failing, the daughter is forced to wear a plastic mask with very plain features so that only her eyes are visible meanwhile, the doctor keeps obsessively kidnapping women and stealing their faces. The daughter has become essentially is without a face and the doctor having blinded himself to the monster he's become is a face without is. It's a truly chilling film and even if you're watching it with subtitles. You will be genuinely riveted by it. Now, this film and the title in particular were the inspiration for billy idol's nineteen eighty-four song is without a face, which is the English translation for they use on be Saggio. Now, the Song's lyrics don't echo the plot of the movie. It's one vital softer and more introspective tunes in the song. Idol is basically wallowing in guilt for having ruined the relationship, and now he's coming to terms with just how petty he's being and the female voice you here during the song, which is provided by his girlfriend at the time backup singer and dancer Perri lister and she is singing. Use. All visas. Asked. Instantly, a woman appears in the video for the Song Bitch. Very clearly, and Perri lister isn't credited for the video. So I don't think it's her. But on the other hand, I don't know who it is. So maybe it is maybe it's not. Incidentally, Billy Idol had himself a little horror movie scenario while making the video. It took about three days to shoot the video which involved a lot of fog and some fire sources and right after the shoot idol fluid Arizona to perform in a show and he fell asleep on the plane he woke up to discover that the combination of the fog and the fire plus the dry air on the plane had caused his contact lenses to fuse to his eyeballs he had to check into a hospital. Get the lenses removed. He had to have his corneas scraped and his eyes were bandaged for several days while the corneas grew back fortunately is do he'll quickly when stuff like that happens isn't that a weird parallel though billy idol singing about eyes without a face becoming the face without is all right. Let me tell you now about a game show that ran in Europe from nineteen, sixty, two to nine, hundred, ninety nine, and I hear it was actually revived recently now in this game teams from various. European countries would dress in crazy costumes to complete bizarre tasks. Each game is judged by a pair of international judges. That's what they're called and the winner is determined at the end of each session. It's truly weird in a fun way and it's very physical stuff and I will include a couple of links at the website. So you can see what I'm talking about the show is typically known by its French name just on frontier yeah. In Nineteen Seventy Peter Gabriel took the show's concept of different countries battling over small matters and expanded to encompass the idea of world nations and their displays of territorialism nationalism, and all the little pettiness that nations can go through. He gave the lyrics and overlay of children playing games, Hans plays Lodhi Lodhi plays Jane King plays with wealthy and so forth. But when he gets to the next verse, the tensions are ramping up. Entree. Hazardous flag. Pay All. Except for. City. Hiding out. Shout. And the title of the Song of course is games without frontiers, which is the English translation of juice on frontier, and it's the phrase that Sung repeatedly at the beginning the middle and the end of the song. Incidentally, that's Kate Bush singing just on frontier in the record. So No, she's not singing she. So popular, which is what most people assume it is, and while I'm at it, I should note that the whistling is Peter Gabriel along with producers Steve Lillywhite and Hugh Padme Oh. And there's one final connection between the song and the TV show while most people refer to the show by its French name. In fact, the show's logo involves the letters J S F Jess on frontier. For some reason in England it's called it's a knockout. All right. So here's a quick one for you, and for this one, we jumped back to nineteen, sixty nine and a group called the tea set which puts the foreign phrase right there in the title. My Bella mean just means my beautiful friend and the spelling indicates that the friend is female. But wait there's a little more French going on. Massing what he's singing, there is play to labels your ged male see mousy which translates to after all the beautiful days. I say to you. Thank you. Thank you. See Easy One and you already knew that it wasn't in English self. All right everything we've talked about today so far has been French. So let's move on to another language Spanish Sure. I'm skipping over the fact that the title has a French word in it, but let's move past that. Okay. Did you know that Sweet Judy Blue Eyes had Spanish lyrics in it? If you like so many others weren't listening closely. There's an entire verse of the song. Being Sung in Spanish near the end Stephen Stills put this part of the song in Spanish partly because he didn't want it to be easily understood and partly because the words don't really have a lot to do with the rest of the song and finally he added in because he felt that the ending was just kind of lying there and it needed a little bit of parking up. incidentally while crosby stills, Nash All sang on this record of the three. Only Stephen Stills is playing any instruments and there is some percussion provided by Dallas Taylor. So let's listen in and I will translate for you. Nice it would be to take you to Cuba. The Queen of the Caribbean Sea. I only want to visit you there. and. How sad that I can't damn see not much to do with the rest of the songs every once in a while he will change the lyrics when they perform live. And now it's time to answer today's Trivia question back on page two. I asked you what these five men have in common and once again they are Paul Rogers, Eric Burden, Graham, Nash and Paul Carrick, and the answer is they all sang on hit songs that for more than one band Paul Rogers was the voice of free and bad company Eric. Burden was out front for both the animals and war Graham Nash. Sang. On hits for both the hollies and crosby stills and Nash or Crosby Stills, Nash and young. And finally, Paul Carrick was the lead voice for ace which you might remember the song. How long has this been going on and for Mike and the mechanics and while he didn't sing, he was also a key part of Roxy, music and squeeze for a while. That's a full lid on another addition of how good it is. If you're enjoying the show, please take the time to share it with someone and maybe even leave a rating somewhere, and now you can support the show over at patriotic dot com slash how good it is if you're so inclined, please be inclined if you WANNA get in touch with the show you can email me at how good podcast at mail dot com or you can follow shows on the twitter machine or the instagram. At how good it is. You can visit like and follow the show's facebook page at facebook dot com slash how good it is pod or you can check out the show's website how good it is dot com we might find a few extra bits and this week you're GonNa, find a few extra bits go watch some of that juice on frontier. That's crazy show. Thank you as usual two podcasts republic for featuring the show and next time around we're gonNA find out how good it is when we look in your eyes by listener requests. Thanks for listening I'll talk next time.

Eric Burden Graham Nash billy idol facebook Perri lister twitter Paul Rogers Peter Gabriel Paul Carrick Crosby Stills Stephen Stills Claude Colin John Mara Arizona Europe kidnapping Instagram Kate Bush England Cuba
Rock's Backpages Ep. 68: Paul Gorman on Malcolm McLaren + RIP Bill Withers & Hal Wilner

Rock N Roll Archaeology

1:04:53 hr | 11 months ago

Rock's Backpages Ep. 68: Paul Gorman on Malcolm McLaren + RIP Bill Withers & Hal Wilner

"The welcome back pages podcast. Name's Bonny Hunt. I'm here or at least somewhere in cyberspace my colleagues Mark Pringle. I bought a unjust. A Mersenne Bowie. Hello Bonnie also hair. Whatever exactly hey a mainstay with our special guest whole Goldman welcome pull champs? Howley very isolated. Well after trouble technically. I think what's the where but it's lobby you. Zoom sort of celebrity squares green. Thank you blank. Thanks for joining us. We'll be talking to you about your career on about. You'll new Malcolm mccaren biography just to say before we get into the aren't really there. It is on saying it on my screen. We just wanted to say that the very sad news about bill withers hyman too late. Lost Week a difference to discuss it in the podcast featured on the home page will be talking about the leg right bill with us We will also be talking about to mole. Great Musicians who we've lost to the current IVARS. How willna briefly about Joan Pine and we'll be talking about all. A new library highlight spots when mainly going to be talking with talk about whole so welcome gain pull you being a good friend to Rox by pages for almost twenty years indeed we launched Rox back pages on sign not the evil launching. Your book appropriately about the music. Press Their Reut. So thank you for being on all these years. Tell us where you started as comedic writer as a journalist well I'm not really easy riser. Nor my journalists gale if I may anything on trade journalists business journalists and that's what my training was. I was a feral child left home and school when I was seventeen and looks around the bitch. London in mid to late seventies then through a series of circumstances. I ended up. 'cause again I could do right. That's the only thing I knew through Texas show but go into. I ended up as a trainee journalist. Thomson's business press. They also points at that time if they felt food swine virgo and I became a trainee. Hack on a paper called Meet Trades Journal Start Again. Being Journal and so. This was the only magazine I could get a job on. I was really not bucket about where we were and it finds it. Set me aren't really great store because I work with really fantastic. People who Pretty Hairy Austin Houghton hacks reached St Bunch of guys and I was very young. I was eighteen as I say I was quite Farrell. And they don't give me and they look to me and so I became a Saab. You know it was a down tight loose. So I went to the princes in Chelmsford every week. I knew about costing all out stops and cow. Gombe that whole world letcher said an anonymous. They had for four or five years I think but meanwhile I'm leaving this other life it funded. He was very well paid as well for young man. Funded this other life. Where dodged my interests in music and fashion adult singing clubbing? And all of that stuff really just that. That's all EBI interesting. And so they were very supportive family to me and they told me law really a law on the first day of work I was given by the Great Derek Chapman. Saudi gone away now so further fields a set of forty press releases and. He said he won't say fifty. Nibs News in brief and I had to cold every single person on the press. Release on each press release and get a quote. That wasn't in the press release and so it had to be standalone. It had to be objective and it. Didn't you know we were anti You know celebrating. Anything was really told a very critical Rica an objective quite skeptical former journalism which appears through gone now and so some twenty three hour one the PPA campaigning feature of the year presented by Tina Brown at a survey Dorchester Hotel campaign e Patriot. The eight because I exposed Practices in the food industry fantails it then recruited by the trade publishes and then by the end of the eighties. I started working for screen international in Los Angeles as the West Coast Bureau. Chief how did you get out GIG toe? I just went for a Kmart and Sanjay's presented? I've seen I've been to Los Angeles before and this job came up Germany. Uk Press Gazette's. That's really the Bible. So you got that every we. Can you comb through there for jobs? But I at that point I had a job on another food. Piper had a company call expenses really good salary and I've been to La a bit. Because I had some family there so this job came up inside. I moved to Los Angeles Work. Basically reporting on the film business from Damn when I came back I became a freelance. So that's twenty years ago. I've been a freelancer Manon. It's very interesting. Because in discussions with all music rights against the real division between like the guys who came through the underground press and so on so forth who went straight into writing about music under slightly older generation. Who did what you did. I mean in that case usually work in the local paper whatever it is but they would learn the trade of journalism. I heard by Hawass talk about cruel sneak. Logan came out that way. Yup Charlie Murray but in fact I look back on it now. This you know rewriting in the ride is operatives at you could really tell the journalists. Who'd had some training against those? Who hadn't great indulgence which we really fed into kids show but at the same time it does lack Rica and Charlie Murray's work really stands up even for owl's Yudo even for Another type cream. I think it really stands out. Because he's done a couple of years. I think at least hall journalism. Is that right if I move out? So I kind of gravitated so those people but at the same time I studied the enemy when I was twelve in the summer of Nineteen seventy-two and next you'll to me in Hendon in the fat next door leaves Nick Z. Oven Guitarist think withdrawing sources Rocco who remember them Ted Revival bags and he went to the Wembley rockabilly festival when the great support for Elvis played as well as strange as so the MC Fides. Backing hines Kerry gritter Roy Wood with deputy strange assortment is right so this was very exciting to me because this was just a couple of miles worlds both top run. Also it was in the first underground hyper. I vote which was friend yesterday which published by so by the time I kind of come out of the Walsh of the trade press or dissolved over this stuff and I was reading. Ratisaka's went on and so I then chose to writes about water. I wanted to write about. That was going to be suspended the next question. How did you get into right you you? You've not you've chosen to Rice. When I came back to freelancing I got cake is editor at large. We music industries again by industry thing. 'cause I was always fascinated in is it comes out in my word by the people behind the scenes so the manages so I went on the road with you too but I showed Paul McGuinness. I gave me the blogs in the bay area. I was far more interested in this guy could walk around Prague a full Omi browns in Prague in the three pace tweed suit in the height of summer and they it was like a military campaign that saw that which was the pulse toll which is ninety six point five zero and they would have two hundred people with them and they pick up two hundred people every three days in a new vendor and he was like local candidate in control. This massive thing that fascinates me four more unafraid to say some blow playing the same three chords that I keep although of course due to bury interview with the spice girls again is Jim. Yes it was a business piece. It's a great piece about how thank you? They put themselves together in this house in maidenhead they will shed. This house in. They conceptualize this idea of the spice girls. They want going to be a gold group. The old will similar closer or going to have their own identities in Salt Turell personalities. That's really interesting and you still a virgin records. Signed them after the. Yeah Actually Newton and so. It's very much economies it week. Piece role than say an enemy piece for the piece to the which was when I was in. La It needs to be with McLaren ammo gallon but the first year. The I mean if I'd known that you've been driving around Los Angeles in the company call more respect you pitch basis to me. Mojo has cost the first on years. Just this Goldman Jot Patriot in pieces. It sounded interesting one of them. We see that was the thing was the they would never about per se music. If you say what you have is about the culture around it so one of the first pieces. You Commission was about the rise of ozone tendency of magazines. Benny's heads maximum rocker world also exposure hosted by favorite one. Which was I killed robot. Chris cow with big fucking Dick. I'd go sir. I didn't have to because I was bloom. Bring up to and what was that piece about. It was a title of a magazine Shape magazine that you mentioned McLaren. Just I mean how. What was this piece that you wrote about McLaren He was pitching at the time. This was towards the end of his time in Hollywood and he was there for a long time. He was there for five six years in which time he made the Great Wolfsthal album and did all the stuff. He was never a single tram person but he was pitching holds a film bio-pic all pizza ground. Yes and also another one a companion and the Patriots one was really a bow routes serve the music business in rock and roll in criminal. Yeah and he was pitching the Brian Epstein by Paik which was about the dock sexual undertones of the meat which had kind of in a occurrence in the time. Yes Week on. Because I've met him when I was fifteen in the mid seventies and I'd seen him around and then we don't because you know we Anglos in let you know what it's like Balmy new content. I never went that thing. Bang INTO CRICKET. Same drinking the token documents applying football pitch. Exactly you're trying to play some of those guys. You must have done very funny. I mean you've written a lot of books and you've also created a real niche yourself as this expert cure rights consultant on areas of fashion and style particularly in London. So you have a kind of unique niche in pop culture in congratulations through life and so we come to your your New China the life and Times of Malcolm McLaren. So was this was mccaren. A subject Been on your mind for a while to us about genesis of the project. I always had a fascination those people who arrived the underappreciated missing surpluses and it kind of world by practice with me 'cause I r Bayliss by about my fourth or fifth bull. That's ready board on doing so. Look my first book was really about the Lansky brothers. Those generation in Jewish clothing retailers. Who Sold Elvis the look of rock and roll on bail straight? Yeah on bail street and so that all about you know talk about those people who I think had been under a patient of if I go through the woods. They in their on right really wanted to celebrate paper like caroline coup who really dedicated the counter cultural energy. She and experienced resource that she'd put together in the sixties to the melody maker. Who's really without her? I think the coverage of would have been quite different so there and you know there were people like nick. Kent who left celebrate in those days then true. The body bubbles book my book about the Design Entrepreneur Tommy Roper the artist. So it's always been the but McCarron was kind of a big figure in because I do think that he's misunderstood and I saw that he needed contextualising. In a wider sense than present company excepted music journalists had tended to approach him before because they didn't particularly like him he could wind people up. There seems to be a strand of white male music journalist to really took again him? I think that he suffered from being pigeonholed in a particular way. Whereas if I may say I understood through the prism of a written a lot about design and Terry and the white a sort of counter culture as well I understood much more is that creature and I thought it was Tyne Commission sixty years ago. It took six years to write in between all this other stuff that I've been doing understood understood the it. Was Tom Brady to re position. No in a sort of aggrandizing way but kind of say this is why I think this person is important near. You might also understand it. I mean you you speak for me among Alba's in the I did. I never met him by founding. Pretty of not just an incredibly suggesting is eight. You never met with the received the essential on how he was incredibly our good. I'm pretty obnoxious Yet so brilliant in his way unimportant and all of that but not someone that I would ever really wanted to hang out with now. Listening to the sub. The old Joe Interview is with mccaren. This week is don't toy speaking to him in nineteen knowing and actually I warmed to him a bit more. Listening to. He's making these great. Not Make Pronouncements on on the music can district on pop culture. Actually he's a little more charming and endearing than he was at the high of his kind of pistols. Infamy shall we just head the first of the clinics moat? This is actually quite late on an interview. He talks about becoming an artist and he still makes the statements in this here but actually being a manager is as autistic. Anything else who cares. What did you become an is just so because you just felt that there was another nobody that I sell? It was more into tiny ultimate. Because I wasn't it was just I came out of the closet thing that you know. It was by default. The I ended up. Managing groups of wasn't really a manager was more of a Sean litter legal hands but the reality seve. Nia someone else. I never forget Richard Branson for that surge man. I understand why that group is salaries Harry find themselves in grrrrrreat. Thanks this Hammerstein. Because plot is Richard Branson would be managed except for the Management Malcolm because he doesn't live in reality. Tv lives in his own immortal. Well nine Richard Dolly name me one. Oh dogs see the point. I mean he's choice to talk further about the Audio Bonnie. That's just returned to holes mission in a sense to reposition Malcolm Macara. I mean did you like him. I mean it sounds to me like you say understood in POPs. You did like him. More than than all this enormously. I liked him a lot. I found him very generous at encouraging presence in he was incredibly funny. He was also quite childlike in his own. Way Alan Moore who wrote the introduction to my book who put together script for fashion days not made film in the Eighties. Talks about this mccaren sensory. Once the he didn't believe it. He caught himself Shawn Watson but he didn't believe anybody would take him seriously because charlatan doesn't reveal themselves. You shall Albertson DOPP themselves. The embezzler agree is very strange. Thanks sorry I love that phrase. I figures Shawl But he had the heart and the vision of analyses. He was eight eight years at all schools. It's been severely rewritten. That audit his history. Because he studied all history he went to the classes. Remember once I met Robin Scott Nan. Who at Croydon school with him and he said yet he was forever rushing selection's not live the rest of around smoking. It was very very interesting and some of his postcards from the south of France in nineteen sixty eight. They really reveal his interest in older he talks about Lombardi. The the most peaceful talks about Indian films that being showing the living theater and so he was this. A creditor be sponged like creature who absorbs every type of creative expression. They churned it out own as well. As to what extent think that our agreement image was cultivated by him as a character as much as it. Was you know because I mean he does? Have the image for me looking back without. You know having been there as it were. It does seem in the popular conception least from the musical perspective as you were saying to be that kind of arrogant guy but do you think. He cultivated that himself to an extent. I think he adult teeth varies. Besotted if you look at his background he had a very very difficult upbringing I mean you wonder about David Bowie. Sometimes as well in the relationship with the mother and stuff like that and how he you know. It's really weird things to do. He's not just show. He's kind of inhabiting custodian highs knee until he almost crashes himself as the theme. Why Juge I think McCarron was of a similar car in the adult stage. Various different personae to really defend himself because he was the abandoned Woes that basically abused child by his grandmother. I'M NOT EXCUSING THEM. Not Say hey. The didn't get enough loves JOHN SO ARMEE BOSTON. What I'm saying is I think explains he built his carapace around himself which eventually started to crumble as he came to terms with himself in the noughties and at bats for me when he breaks his greatest artworks the final film installations. Were you know retail? We've great admiration on the international circuit that were collected. You know he was definitely realizing he's created patient in multiple phases thrilling thing that he did that. You disapprove of Holy. I mean I think it's a very misguided things the eighteen this with those patriots. Wells churning out ideas all the time I happen to be at Chelsea college all the Dave. The news broke of his death. Ten years yesterday and in the company was make Jones of the clash in Bay. Id and he said that's really sad. Because all those days have gone wound EPA hair more. His legs ideas where the good battle in different. So I think he made several miscalculations. I think frames so a not nurturing John Lydon and looking after he much preferred sid vicious. In fact as you'll see in my book he really tried to save seeds. He was on the first rights in Iran. He organized bail. Went around these lawyers including Royko. Why Nash He met hit. You know he went to hippie lawyers recommended by Allen Ginsberg but you know things like chicken got a magazine. Full young teenage pop fans were kind of on the money in that it was a parallel way much. Ag Smash hit. Yes the idea. The ad she had was a great marketing idea was the cassettes with the thing because they gave him ability that whole thing about piracy and you know the consumer making the choice is not being directed by corporations and so he wanted to feature the cassette as a covenant and then fell music three news agents and Garo tribe. What our Jamie. But then of course he fucks it up by only chicken going on about cold for Cape Yep emended July it is just an I think also in the wake of the pistols. He made a lot of bad choices because I think he had the crisis I think if you look at most of them in most of the band became a heroin addict and alcoholic kind. Price isn't one of the problems. Whom though is that as a manager and I know that being a manager of bonds is only a small part of who he was but his NBC looking for people who he could affect you manipulate and really wasn't tolerance of personalities. These bands could actually challenge in any way. I think his his answers. That would be you know. Do you want to get on the Boston Garden for Roy? Don't show John Lydon. Do you want to remain a herbert great guy fantastic but you want to remain a her but teaching dissing challenge disadvantaged kids you know in some. Would you want to become elite So he wasn't credibly knife but with that came undoubtedly a lack of empathy. I think that's one of the things that we see about it. But he always said the and it sounds pretentious harsh but he always said the visuals thing and if people got hurt then so be it. I mean I'm not saying he's a nice guy because there wasn't a nice part saying that he's on that on the power with them but I think the he enabled for more people's any her show you the exit. You furnished us with so I kindly. Yes it's actually just a a fossilizing will snap show. I mean I'm not I I can't. I thought an alert so much I've not. I've not read read interested in literature so this little window into what happened before line than even came on the scene. It's very interesting. I didn't know about this David. Harrison Guy. He was briefly considered to be a possible late singer full Coochie Jones and the sex pistols. Nine hundred seventy five. And it's everything. That's sort of rumbling. Around in Malcolm's head before liden comes on the scene pistols. Come together properly. I found fascinating. Yeah Yeah David. Somebody wrote a post something about on instagram. And somebody is low. The people obsessed with that period of Pumpkins. They know everything and I'm not quite but it was like oh it must be scientific in being obscured shit about that. He's one of our great British autism representative exhorted near account fees. He's own person defined by that mobile and so but it's interesting is needed. The Malcolm recognized something Indicate from a short year later with the most of the back. Sean Difficulty Wade Chrissie. Hi Dave rat scabies and so he gets habit and you read about encounters vic from subway. Say Net retiring at a GIG. He said you guys should be in the band. He paid for their rehearsal. Et scabies at a pink fairies Gig at Daewoo's and said. Hey you're really good drama. And so then the next day he and Chrissie went round visited. So there's this constant And I think misinterpreted but basically the generosity about you don't see many facilitation or would yeah my only time. I can remember being in the same room as him. This when the pistols played mile because Chelsea art school in Nineteen seventy five and they played in November five and it was kind of pretty small crowd and Johnny. Rotten telling us we will too old even those is exactly ones. I also may turn around and even though a posse shopper. I've never seen the lower. You'd never hung out inevitably the robot pub for example day. That's what I meant. I didn't have time anyway. I remember this guy by the mixing desk just not looking at the bond studying the audience. He was just constantly from looking to see how we were reacting which was another helping of. Yeah the next guy she this is this is. He's now this is ninety. Nine percents is John Toba. He's talking very much about the music business as it stood in nineteen eighty nine and he's talking about how the artists were becoming indistinguishable from the air arm and heard sign them. Listen the two for a new office to exist in that kind of processed. He has to fit in very well. And isn't that so process. You get a very pragmatic simple artists. Who really doesn't look any different from the guy signing him. He behaves the same. He has similar tastes. They often play with play cricket together. They've both got mortgages and live next door. It's one giant dreadful boring happy family. I love that because he's actually absolutely right when you think of when she takes take about when it was nine thousand nine hundred ninety nine absolutely on the money that was great music coming out so Manchester Obesity. It was acid house happening. But it wasn't being controlled by the major labels what it Hanso needs to take appro- words go west the Old Kentucky who were exactly like the people who saw in in La at she wants the money out of that and then just retired at the age of twenty years but they were they were exactly what McLaren's talking about. I think. Yeah exactly what I thought was just really interesting on a personal level is that that disillusioning. Hartley led McLaren to discover a bit shipton about this. He wrote a piece. About how eight bit was the new punk a wired magazine exhaust. He's actually the one that I just happened upon an such before recording. This and I just thought that was fascinating because that is so left field from what you might expect someone in his position to go after because it's not his generation and not his scene and not his technology but it did somehow want to find something that was new to him. I think. That's kind of remarkable in itself. Because I mean Tipton is much maligned much but there is something to it where it is a a rebellion against pro tools. High quality recording against based sort of glitzier glamorous pulp thing. That's right he said when he met musicians what most impressively was wearing a t show. We said FROG PRO to compete. But if you think about McLaren in the context of Hippo when he goes to draw river house projects and sees Africa Bam bartering goes Okay so Michael Home. He takes him that puts together review. They support by while that becomes these neat thing. You think about his ethnic music food is that somebody's was one of those papers. But he's investigations into what will become But most potent the now his acceptance and understanding that the ballroom scene of New York at the mid to late eighties would actually be one of the most powerful music's Abou- gender fluidity and identity politics which are among the ruling. You know the issues of Zeisler. He saw that he saw that. Justice must be syncing this into the one thing he really gets wrong. Is He predicts. He's very optimistic about Europe and very optimistic about Britain's relations basically because the Channel tunnel who was just being built at the time since few Ryan he's says everyone's goats down through the Channel Tunnel and not want to come back to their jobs in England are now that they do. I did a bar the mid nineties there was that whole business about being pro. Your guests know that book about the face and as those issues which it comes from. Nick Logan's EXPENSI- so looking towards your Roth American. No I think that's right. But it's also the viewpoint of a metropolitan statistical it fails to arrest the country's life so listening to that in the light of what's happened last with live with sinus. Oh it's quite interesting. You say because he was he was chambered equipment optimistic about the year. There was another piece the he talks about in the mid nineties. I think he was really infused because he was back from. La I'm interested to know when that nine hundred ninety nine recording made exactly when Jones made it because Oskarshamn and I couldn't get an exact date and he doesn't know come out the the well the album he. He doesn't talk about any product to such toll. He wasn't but he was supposed to be promoting would stoning but in fats. What he was trying to do was find his father. Oh rarely founds in August nine thousand nine hundred nine at-bats another key thing to understanding. Mclaren is the. They've been separated for forty two years and so he'd never have to follow the figure he'd been the indulged in those damn rejected. You know how bad is really cool shit? Then but then. He finds his father in choice to form a relationship within and so by the mid nineties is very much changes anyway. So it's a it's a great interview. We're GONNA play clip at the end which I shall love where he talks about. How the Renault God's I mean in terms of popular culture their gods anymore. The seems impossible. Another Elvis or whoever turn as always. I'm as you say social However much bullshit bluster he can go. They'll just record truce. Draw the loss what he talks about. Trump's campus. I'm sure it's fascinating read. Who are looking for your life and times of Malcolm mccaren published this week by constable on Robens. So don't rush out and get it but Russia being delivered our goal him. Where do we order it from? Well high it is very good if you don't WanNA use Amazon. It's available there. The kindle is available today across across the world but you know I'd check out local bookshelf yet and see if I still with us whether they deliver us. Agreement is spot on on. Trust the great stuff. We always say at this point pool. Is You probably stick around in this case? I'm saying please don't leave zoom meeting. We're GONNA move on to talk about some people that we've lost and Wilson talk about highlights among the New Library. Just pitch in whenever you when the spirit moves you my friend. Okay this. We're GONNA talk about bill with. I mean no sooner. Had We finished recording the KOSS waking we learn the beloved bill had pasta right not the results of the Koran of ours Complications he was eighty one. I mean he was old look him up when he came into the game. I re watched the still bill documentary. The nights that he died and he says exactly the same thing he's already. He was thirty one when he released his first record Australia but he said he. Even he was in his old working. Stiffle is life. He knew about all of that sort of thing. I've just love him. I'm a huge fan. I thought it was very interesting. The when John Mentioned John Prime briefly in a minute but when he died when bill his died the response of my American facebook friends and my British facebook friends my British face friends. Yes would not join. Prime's death but absolutely more on the wizards even if this hadn't made records since nineteen eighty six and the Americans would exact tops. They worshiping John Summarize it I mean. I think that people don't appreciate a lot of people don't appreciate how Greater Sunrise Bill was. He's a songwriter. In the same way as let's say a Jackson Browne would be some rice oil enabling the West Coast Cigna sunrises and people don't some people I think. Mel American struggled recognize black artists as being summarizes. I think this is the gap in this of Web. Two seed in the news. I mean you've put your finger on something that Person ABOUT BILL ON OUR MEM- buying most quite young but I thought the Carnegie Hall mazing tossed record and I do remember thinking whatever job wold. You know. This isn't Marvin Gaye. This isn't this isn't smokey Robinson. I don't know exactly who this guy is. He a sitting on a stool with an Acoustic. Utah and this kind of calm goods and it fails. He's he's clearly like a singer. Songwriter Terms to him. But I still remember just that just listening to US may which I think is the opening and then he goes back into it and the crowd goes crazy flow with the most aid still absolutely a his his instructions grandma's hands and on the song itself and also he's extraordinary thing hit. He walked away and again watching the documentary. The content which is held by the people that signed into was Columbia after opposite of the Sussex records where they just are who could be mitigated and have songs given some and this Guy Vernon stones run into bill and they get in touch with the guy who made his life a misery and this guy says well. The problem was building have a manager. Who would tell them what to do. And it's like Jesus fucking Christ I I think what they think he thinks about that. Act So just walking away as the show's great dignity. Yes I I think. That's one of the things that really mocks him out. It's really recognizable aspects of his music and his life and his work and personalities. It's fantastic dignity you talking about live at Carnegie who I mean. It's just stunning the sophistication. Yeah dignity and standing he exe- well what's his extraordinary is how certain people are very very beginning. Who's going around with his demo tape run Los Angeles. The next thing isn't Stephen of Booker. T. producing it with the likes of Stephen Stills and a lot of great session players playing on it apparently he says himself getting this for instant. Graham Nash came downstairs and sat down opposite. Said you don't know how good you are. The A lot of people British bloomed onto bill withers like. This guy is really serious tunnel. Not when he was he came from nowhere. Yeah seats for seven four seven. Whatever areas doesn't yeah exactly? Yes but you're a big fan of vintage. American soul music definitely. I mean what's what how'd you hear Bill Withers? I mean I think I think your fun. Yeah very much so I really love the sound of his music. Yes but his songs beautiful beautiful songs extremely well put together and just really nicely conceptualized as well. It was sort of a completeness about them that I think is rare. I mean the managed to write music. That is both touching and if pretty but it's not like it's got weight and cheeses Shange Day isn't is yeah. I mean how can you song called Lovely Day? That's not it really is genuine. It's true I think there's a truth about what he's doing. He's technician of a gentleman this 'cause he's talked. Jan. Yes yes I voted well. It's still documents lovely instinct. Seeing his relationship with his second wife still at the and it was prickly brilliant relationship to adults and it was really really good young thing of course he had he had a great fan. Biden is basically chose songs flood street band. Which was Melvin Dunlap? On Bass James James Gadston that group tastic bond and yet they were play with such restraint behind him and James Guidances senators visa. That was the best time I ever had really. I was very valid thing this great band because actually probably my very first exposure to the music of bill withers was Black Street and Dr Dre. No diggity which samples grandma's hands and that's probably the first time I heard that music kind of went. Oh hang on. What is this you know I want to hear the original and then then to hear the voice and it kind of comes together in that way but actually what attracted me to it? First and foremost was that really tight really understated. Really low key and brilliant by grandma used to issue a and Tsitsi let. Don't you run so might followed up piece glaze. Snakes there in that the homes black stream take the original stakes. Baby gotta you gotTa Hope. He made a fortune hightlight. He was comfortable is not comfortable because he wrote at least five hit records hit. I mean massive here invested in property as well he had a little small and I mean not came through so clearly instill bill. I mean I remember watching that with this idea in my head of building a bit bitter and he wasn't too slowly. There's a man of great dignity and humility. I mean nothing is overstated. I think I think he suffers from depression. I think it was a part of his makeup in life. You not make too much point. I don't think he's life is necessarily straightforward Trash but he he'd come through that and seems to be very much pieces themselves from So-so foles Fisher era. We hear a little click because part of what we're featuring on the homepage and tributes bill a just about a minute from bill domains twenty. Oh four will sign interview with him and really get a sense of everything we've just been saying about the man sunshine sees go is not a wall win. She's Louis I'm sixty five now. Friends of mine are starting to like just die and nobody really ask why you know while they died you know and so the I'm at the age of mortality or at least thinking about it and sometimes I think like you know if I don't organize his stuff and do something with it. You Know Somebody. Oh probably come in here. After I'm dead and you know throw it in the trash. Can I hope not so the one thing that I'm starting to realize is And I'm always flattered when you know when somebody likes you you know calls and we have a conversation because it causes me to think about times when I was a different guy in other words that guy in his thirty that did most stuff that people bring up to me. Now that guy is gone. She's gone and she's always gone to know in it she goes. Where's the guys known? He's what he's GonNa get. That guy is gone. I don't think he did regret leaving. I think you know what we're saying. Just now is like he chose moment and he had said what he wanted to say and not idiom and left it and I think that's a great thing to do. It's very in the documentary. They `lustration by having him was lost. I guess very late. Tv appearance to very little eighties. Chicks kind of like pretending to sing backing vocals as daunting by him and he looks so uncomfortable. Not Doing he is anyway you either way. We should just briefly mention to musicians who we have lost to the virus in the past few days one of them. Joan prime we did actually talk extensively about when we face Interviewees him just a few weeks ago. Bought had been in pretty good health anyway for a number of years battles with cancer. Such wasn't the biggest Learn he had succumbed to Covet nineteen nonetheless. I really Saad loss unique songwriter. A prince of a guy and we're featuring a great interview. Holly GLEASON DID WITH HIM. Twenty six taint the great interview where she all about many great songs on that first album. But we're also sign goodbye to the story. How will know how to sum up this guy's career other than to say he's coming to the king of what you might call the alternative tribute album? He put together some of the most fascinating tribute records. The anybody's during the loss guests associates the much parts being the Disney album. Stay awake where he got a very eclectic people to do by Massoni from Disney movies like Aaron Neville doing the Mickey Mouse March and singing when you wish upon a stall and he also get sun raw to do pink elephants on parade. I mean. That's a pretty inspired combination. I've never I've never. I've wanted to go and listen to it now. I've heard of it but I think I think that was the key to him as well was the long before it became the industry trope to get surprising people to do surprising couples. You know he was a master that giant parliament. Where you take that. You know a really well known song. Get somebody surprising to do. And out of that comes something completely Anyway we've got a few infused on the site not many. Because he's one of those patron people that is generally Tulsa but it's very interesting reading and talking about what he does his relationship. The office elderly. He was loved by people who work with him but he did. He made very few records as a producer. Donlan offshoots did. Didn't I mean he made a few? He did a lot my unfaithful. Yeah Poker's parent. He's also ill. With with with the far side throughout all of this he was also the chief music supervisor. On Saturday night live I mean that was his big pie and Gig bridal these sorts of Bosnians holidays. It's nice where I'd say. Jeb piece. Stephen Aw Rosen. Just sunsets which really explains how great. How will it's cooled? How will the creation of the modern tribute album? It's an interview that Stephen did with him for. La City Bait and twenty four so that free on the home page. That's everything that's free and you're not GonNa talk astray some of the stuff that aintree well again on you. I'm sorry join including either Davis the Daily Express West Coast Correspondence aid. Not's not just had a big hit with those pizza maids walking. She says my father. I said the record. He turned up his nose and told me great tune but the voice stinks. How sad when I didn't know he had a single out at the time and cells and he was really pissed off because her record was seven a lot more than his vocals and I bet it was better than his to a great record. And none of these days these boots are gonNA walk all over seventy-two Melody Maker talking to grand this the movie of the law states that fillmore. Just come out so she bill. Graham was the legendary promotes of the film moves east on West and many other venues and social and still is a great song is New York New York guy you know. We're the kind of interesting backstory Holocaust survivor and so on and so forth. And he says nothing is close to the fillmore. Nothing will ever be close staggering. What it was and I said as Dole grant or if I weren't Bill Graham love it mean I kind of brilliant about Bill Graham Howe however sort of just preacher naturally aggressive. He was with everyone. Yeah great excellent relations. What we've been talking about with Cole said vicious lifestyle played too extreme end by Joel solving the San Francisco. Chronicle in seventy nine hundred seventy nine essentially no bit but it's also an American writing about British punkish always quite amusing. But it's they sort of. Don't get in the way in Tokyo. Another what dozen years to get it. Yeah I mean individuals did but certainly the American music pressed the head of the whole thing. He says talk for Punk. Aim Somehow not too surprising. Drug overdose deaths at age. Twenty one should vicious orgies. Scroll his name. Indelibly in the annals of rock by rising over the high side for one final time however vicious should his place in bestirred see is a genuine rock and roll amount of the fancy bone from blackboard. Jungle well those musical skills negligible fishes played out his rough and tumble rock and roll lifestyle to its most extreme in many ways. Most romantic and full online poll coma. I think he's making some very good points thera because you know he was the ultimate finest superstar and he also was enormously charismatic. I don't think he was very nice but I met him a few times. The last time was really sad because he he nancy spungen fed out the CABBIE's Swiss cottage going to notorious drug dealers. Danny one of those big towerblocks on at like me and my friend literally had to help them to the door they could not stand up God and the first met him. He threatened me and a group of friends quite aggressively and it was dead. The Martha Jones Crystal Dealers said his kit. When we get into the situation. Get Your keys and put one better. I actually did that because I thought we were going to get a pace. So I had various different experiences of sin but I think the he was mccaren. Ultimate aim radi was to elevate the audience beyond the Rockstar draco old johnny role. In some ways he succeeded but I think sip was also a very troubled kid are not people who were quite close to him. An you know. He had a very very sad upbringing. Yeah there was any kind of one way he was going to go with a without Clara. Actual show something with this idea of his posterity in the annals of rock and all that stuff when that's couldn't be further from what punk is all about really pumped. Yeah all-star see but this is kind of interesting as you say American sort of approach to trying to trying to contextualized this rock and roll concept with regards to sufficient. I think that's what they do. Because they missed makers Americans live the great near whatever it is and here is somebody who is you know you can easily draw him. His cigarette is recognizable. And so you know. He's a great niche. That's a really interesting point because what we're talking about earlier and about smoke McLaren lamenting God's one of the problems. I find reading in my job. The American press the eighties through the nineties is they want to create them so that wildly over hyping all sort of like inflating people who within five years of Pissy Confronts Mediocrity Interesting State that I think one of the greatest hates his own the sex pistols is by Timothy. You guys will remember Raucous. Dad's been living in London. It's a double image cover of rolling stone from October. Nineteen seventy seven and he gets fantastic access to everybody. Hangs out with the move and he really kind of understands. This was about because he ends by saying you know in the loving pays California Southern California kids you know damaged a high schools to the tune of six million dol- turn so McLaren and the pistols at tapping into an anger right right and so I think. Sometimes they know that distance can lend in soft moving eighty three enemy a name cave rich guy in the fourth very amusing and because she's. I think she's very funny rice so I like stuff a lot. I wish we had more of her stuff from the site but John King says obviously what we was political and we still have that thing got fed up with being treated like evangelise try financing because my problem seventy post punk bands is being given school that truth and I really felt that especially. We'll gang full particularly. They will wagging their finger. You had to sort of go along with him to say. Well you know the place making moving onto eighty five ritual INS sees Chet Baker. Play Ronnie Scott's in London is the Times says in wallkill a medium template blues. His phrases tacked on to agile variations. A lights decarlo contracting plush SNEERS SOMETIMES HIS LANGUAGE INVENTIONS. Hanania like smoke drifting sense to breeze plowed by the panel of John. Hola up basically Bush in the drums of Tony Crombie. I just like that as a piece of our way. So those gas. I think he'd made a residency. Knows a fantastic booker. I don't know whether King or whoever was in scouts. But he also booked Nina Simone who died being going to see since the mid seventy five G. They released the MON video. There are a whole series of videos. Chat Baker. Need someone in a couple of Santa Fe would really. I mean there was that kind of ghoulish being about Baker time because he looked so unbearably here. But he won't that sort of commerical depress. Yes and then easy really hold true. Yeah no that's lovely here. I mean Rich Williamson. This peace talks about the souls. Comparisons on Thabit to most Davis is that he talks. Most Davis said that sometimes the software I play the more intense I- gaps thing and he sort of applies that typically thirty nights I love rich Williamson pricing yes. She writes music in a way that very few people. I love that forever. That's my lot Bonnie just Rooney. I've just got to pieces. I WANNA mention actually one of which I think ties in sort of in a not direct but interesting way to about with regards to Malcolm McLaren and that is the piece riding for two thousand and three which is an interview with so solid crew. And that's interesting for the times and it's interesting too because this point so solid crew about to release a second album which I think most people didn't necessarily expect them to to get to because number of them have been arrested on dot denoting guns and Blah Blah Blah Blah answers into you mostly with the leader so solid crew. Dwayne mega man. Vincent says a lot of people will look so solid and say Barracuda their own problems. Maybe we are but who cares we. Don't we hit the music? And so solid. We have all the tools we have. The talent the looks the attitude the get-go and we have the fan base with the first album. Will people logged onto our website. Come month than West. Life's because people who've never heard on music of seen us on the news and I just think it ties in with that age old old publicity is good publicity g that that McLaren and the sex pistols to us and I think it's also music is community. You know seeing those people who are ignored by a light society why sizing so in the same way that so so really had to push themselves. Full wouldn't organize. There are nights to the Africa's something like that. You really got that sense. From so solid crew that they will also demonized by the race absolutely absolutely tabloid press says. Well that were very talents. He one probably have was bit like time. Which I deal with is the larger. Your grouping is the more inherently Celtic becomes and they really stay really suffer from that also. They were already bunch. A friend of mine. Jamie runs used to run Britannia roasters. He had them in two months. They didn't pay the bill. That was kind of the way they roles they were. They were Busby deal with having said that I think the big grime office in the last eight years example. I think looked at what so solid did wrong and took cues how to actually do that. Stuff without folding traps They didn't make some interesting records as well for that period of time. This is an interesting about the other pieces. The twenty eighteen review of Prince's piano and a microphone which I think is a first review of the album. Which is one of my absolute favorite prince albums. And I just I absolutely love. And it's an ice speech by Dave Simpson in The Guardian. And it highlights something that we've actually talked about before. I don't know if on the podcast not mark united certainly talked about this about Princess Leia play most instruments while is phenomenal talents as a guitarist are all over his catalog and currently an audible infants. Vincent and gentleman. Ed is skills as a pianist to unrecognised even off his sovereignty. Final Twenty sixteen counter tool but he is on fire here gospel classical funk and jazz us from his fingertips at will so would they in the previously bootleg cold coffee and cocaine. You suspect the guy could have played chopin on a watering. Can I just think wonderful and I? It's it's a nice bit of writing an absolutely wonderful. I just think he prince useful. I think it's very good. I mean I listened to the company ten I have but as a piano player of adores my first real exposure was his. How come you didn't love me anymore? Which is just him at a piano piling up his book lamaism talk themselves. And he's terrific kanner. He's such a great uses for around six assists punisher. Yeah I've actually listened to a great deal since it came. It really ends up. Which is remarkable given? It's basically like a one take piano stuff. It was never supposed to be released until then get to hear that. I think that's really special about coq. Cold coffee and cocaine great. Well I think a lot isn't it's just been terrific's in a way. We're still getting used to this. New Mode of recruiting the cost it slightly surreal. But it's really not been able to Mike a wish you the best of luck with the Mukarram Book and you'll future project five team as been a gas. Thanks for coming well. An absence of sort of global book to this new presumably going to be able to promote the book. In the way that you would have been able to. Yeah but I think there's always ways and means and that she what we found is the cause a lot of authors delayed their titles to the altar. Yeah I didn't. I didn't want to do that because we got various media not Birthday and softener number coding scripts fool a radio four documentary which will go out at eight o'clock on April the twenty fifth on radio for a cold. So you know throw. Those reasons are wanted to get the book out. Yeah. You're not sure what we're finding is that people will during it. We're getting more than we anticipate much to do. And so they they. Now's the time to read. I sixty pages. That's eight hundred and sixty mile. I'd get it from my kindle instantly. I'm afraid of McKinley competing. I don't see any pictures but we do that by. Shake your hand when we sign. Yeah pretty crazy thank you thanks for coming in so teach. Apps shall we hear from the subject of your magnum opus to take us out Mark Malcolm talking about how there were no gods anymore? Otherwise we'll see you next week. We gotTA guess next week. Old Doesn't know yet who knows. I'll come back. Stay that pool seven days. Okay thanks for bearing with US through AD. I Guess Malcolm take us out by everyone. Characters seven lives and be responsible you look back without a male's opening at characters that we once felt we use four archetypes dope bump in the night to make his jump out that in the moines to make us run away for harm to make escape out to believe a coach of creek chain life. Reason why you have God's not Jim Morrison Jimi Hendrix and Elvis Presley and Marilyn Monroe and even those kinds of God's doesn't exist anymore and that's the trouble with coach Malcolm McLaren in conversation with John Toddler in nine hundred ninety nine concluding this week's Rox back pages. Podcast many thanks to special guests. Paul Gorman stay at home and by his new book the life and Times of Malcolm McLaren and then check out his website. Paul Gorman is dot com for details about his other books the host Vanni Hoskins and Mark Pringle and it was co hosted and produced by Jasper Murison Bowie. The rocks back pages. Podcast is part of the Pantheon. Podcast network you can find thousands of articles as well as hundreds of full length audio interviews a rocks back pages dot com.

Times Malcolm McLaren Los Angeles John Mentioned John Prime London Coochie Jones Goldman CRICKET Malcolm mccaren Nick Logan bill withers hyman Malcolm Bonnie David Bowie Graham Nash McCarron Mark Pringle Patriots Bill Withers Saab
MC Escher and His Trippy Art

Stuff You Should Know

57:23 min | 1 year ago

MC Escher and His Trippy Art

"Welcome to step. You should know a production of iheartradio's how stuff works. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark Charles W Chuck Bryant and there's Jerry over there and this is stuff you should know the arts see addition and Jerry Room Tone Roland. Yeah I think it's make believe stuff room tone. Yes she must be. LemMe capture few fairies in this Mason Jar. I think it's the same thing we may need those in the final at it. I don't know what it is about to explain to everyone. Room tone is You did this on film sets and in studios where you just make everyone sit completely silently. You captured the sound of the room so I guess you can. What do you do with that? Jd Layer it in in case you need it or something. Did you hear that everyone. She said she cleans of the background to everybody listening. It sounded like there's something about it though. It's like being in church getting the giggles. It's really hard. Especially on the film seven there's like fifty people standing around being completely silent I- farting writing. I suspect it's strictly a power trip. He thinks that's what I think. I'm going to start doing that. My house when things get out of hand room tone anything that it works to make me bust out the room tone you well no no I was GONNA say we're talking about room tone. Obviously the topic. Today's I am C. Escher who was well known for going Berserk anytime. Someone asked him to be quiet for room tone trash chairs grab reptile reptile straight out of the two dimensions and throw them into the third dimension to steal sorts of weird stuff. It's funny did you think that was a joke just for you. Yes so he the Everyone knows MCSE or if you've ever been to college or taking drugs or sold drugs to somebody in college. Then you've probably seen hands drawing hands or I mean that's not what the name of that one was. It's called drawing hands or The some of his more famous ones ones are the these impossible rooms like stairs that lead to sideways stairs. But you got to wrap your head around it in a certain way it even make sense of it all right right or stairs that lead into other series that back into the other stairs sure this constant or A. I'm a big fan of that. One self portrait. He did in the with the sphere. Yeah they're the the mirror sphere near sphere. It's cool it is very cool. I'm not crazy about the face. Even though I'm sure he did it exactly precise but the hand if you look at the hand it's really realistic. It's very pretty. Yeah I mean I'd like this stuff this is not my style is in anything. I would put my walls these days but I still. I still think he's one of the like coolest more innovative artists out there. Yeah and there's a great factoid that I hope will hold till the end which at the end but kind of where it falls in our outline what is factory. Megan's I mean you've killed ten percent of all the facts that's right and this is just one of the ten percent it remained. That's right okay. Gotcha so one of the things that I found was that if you were impressed by his work Prepare to get exponentially more impressive. We talk about how he made those work. That's the fact of the show for me okay. That's the factoid. You gotTa hold onto sure. Sure sure sure I was just a little bit. I didn't know what you're talking about although I should've guessed so This is talking about an artist which means that we should probably talk about the artists being born And in the case of MC Esser whose name by the way was More it's Cornelius I want to say Cornelius. But there's no you in there I think Cornell's sure Asher nailed the listener. Try but I spoke on name. Say nerve nailed the last. This is the point where the people say. Get to the point already. Well we are at that point. That's M. C. and then as you're born June seventeenth Eighteen ninety eight not nineteen eighty-nine as as the grab stir. Put it man. He's like he was. He was born in Lieu Arden Netherlands. grew up in Arnhem mm-hmm which is about sixty miles southeast of Amsterdam. Is that right. Yeah Okay I mapped all this stuff out nice song come. In that general area you went on a little Google autour sure And he signed even from early on As MC E. He signed his paintings. Although people called him Mark M. A.. UK Okay friends and family right which the meaning thing Ed points out. But it's just like you know an affectionate term for Maurits. Yeah is it Maurice. Probably Marines marites Cornelisz Escher. But it could also go the way of Morris so is it more. It's more no. I wish I wish I knew well what we do know. Is that In this we should put a pin in because it sort of plays a big part in how he pursued his art but His Dad had some money money. He was a rich kid. Yeah for sure which really helps as we'll see as he's traipsing around Europe on Dad's dime slowly getting better header at arts early. Yeah that's a good point because he Was Not great in school. He did love jarring class. But apparently wasn't you know he didn't have his second grade teachers falling over themselves. About what a talented artist. He was no and apparently he also didn't consider himself much of an artist although he engaged engaged in art like he he did produce art from a very young age. He was terrible in school except math and drawing apparently when he I was in grade school primary school he failed his finals. All of them except for math and I read that his father noted in his journal with some affection that his son consoled himself by producing a linear type of a sunflower. That's how he made himself feel better after after failing out of school well and he he was somewhat adept at math. Early on but It's interesting his. His work is highly mathematical. As far as art goes but later later on in life when he was confronted with real mathematicians he would sort of be like Nah not me man can like. I'm an artist. Well that kind of mathematician. So yes but he was most of his friends were mathematician. Yeah for most of his career. He was mostly appreciated by mathematicians and scientists. Those are the people who really vibe vibe done. His work and drugs they came later. Okay they came in and got real popular but I saw somebody made a movie called Journey rainy into infinity. The documentary fulling documentary. I believe the whole things on Youtube And it starts. The trailer starts out with Graham. Nash saying saying Hey I I called up MC one day just to say Mr Ascher. I think you're a really great artists. That's all I wanted you to say. And he said I don't consider myself an artist I consider myself a mathematician. Oh really yes so. I'm going with Graham. NASHES interpretation skelter to this spoke to him directly. Yeah yeah I mean it's crazy he I mean not to spoil anything but he died in one thousand nine hundred ninety two. Just seventy three so you now now if you were to live to his like mid eighties which is somewhat reasonable He he would have been like a live in the eighties which just seems so weird. It does seem kind of weird. Yeah because he was he seems counter cultural for sure even though his him his personality was not very counter cultural now and he didn't really they have much love for hippies. In fact he later said that. The hippies in San Francisco illegally making copies of my work right He he didn't exactly actually follow. You know the the normal usual beat throughout his lifetime and he was he's he was a mathematician. He was a bit of a square but he was also a very imaginative square. That's right trying to make good square joke but it's not coming to me. Remember that show square pigs pigs square. Yeah Square Peg Sarah Jessica. Parker was she in that she's also in girls. Just WanNa have fun. Yeah and I'm going to see her Broadway. The next spring really she and her husband are co-starring in plaza suite. Neil Simon's plaza suite. Nice very excited about that but I'm trying to align it with the Bonnie Prince Billy show but they're like a week apart and I'm like I can't just stay in the yard to kill especially when there's hourly flights between Atlanta and New York I know I may discuss e Bonnie Prince Billy and come home because he didn't play much but that's a story for another day All right so he goes to school school at Technical College of Dealth Not for very long. And then he went to the Harlem with two as school of architecture and decorative the arts which is west of Amsterdam Not Harlem New York. Well I think that's what the Harlem New York named after right. Yeah that's where Bonnie Prince Alwaleed. He's a town hall. Actually Oh is that right. Yeah we played there. It's right there. Stink on that joint so His Dad said you know because you know his dad had a lot of money and made money honey and even though you want to support your kids you want the time Echem into something. Sure if you're that kind of dude that might be lucrative so he said hey you like to draw shapes. Why don't you go study architecture? And he did that for a little while even though he wasn't super into it but while at school there he had a very fortunate. Fortunate Meeting By being mentored by one Samuel. Just Surin debt mosquito Who'd be mentor? Who noticed some of his early art? I'm not sure how he saw it but he took one look at issues art and said he don't need to go into architecture. Come study under me. Learn graphic design and so sure did he became a graphic designer which he whether he knew it or not he had been his whole life up to that point. All of his work is very graphic in nature nature and designing. Yeah it really really is. But I'm sure his dad in the early you know nineteen twenty s was probably like is that even thing right. That sounds made. Yeah well his dad. Also I don't know if you saw it or not was a civil engineer so of course you would be like you draw. Just go do architecture right. That's what I know civil engineering. And there's architects in the world. Just go to the other thing that I do and he probably thought graphic design just meant like you're gonNA make signs right or post stamps or Christmas paper which he did later on. That's right tell you made a little bit of dough so In the Early Nineteen Twenty S. He started on his sort of rich kid journey travelling around in Europe On his dad's time on a gap year. That was really really long very long. But on one of these trips he went to a couple of places that would end yup having a big influence on him. Yeah one in Spain at the L. Hambro And then just travelling through southern Italy through the countryside gay just fell in love with totally. Yeah but in Spain this is this is one that didn't bear fruit right away. But he was really fascinated by these mosaics and Tesla relations uh-huh which are described as. Okay they are repeating designs that interlock with one another leave no space between one another and that when you fit them together they fully cover a plane. which is trump harder to do than you would think? Yeah like if you've ever seen the Esser Fish Sort of the white fish in the blackfish kind of working in one another. Yeah that's a perfect example. And he would do this a lot later on. If you've ever played Q-bert that's those cubes are sure A certain kind. Yeah but He got really into this. Even though it wasn't don't like right away that he started doing these things that sort of came a little bit later but what he did do was started drawing the Italian countryside because he loved it loved it. I mean I mean he. He went to Italy. It was like this is my home. Yeah and he. He was quoted at one point in time of saying like he never wanted to become an Italian among Italians. Yeah he liked being a stranger but he loved Italy which is interesting thing to say. I'm not exactly sure what it means. I think what he was saying was he's he. He likes like speaking a visitor to Italy. Rather than there's a certain amount of responsibility that comes with being one of us you know what I mean whereas if you can we like that guy over there who will accept them. We're not gonNA throw rocks or every time we see him or anything like that and we'll take his money and maybe even say hi to them or whatever. Leave them alone. We won't include him in our expectations of what it means to be a local GOTCHA. That's what I think he's after a clearly. I can identify with that Well that kind of came through in his work too because if you'll notice even in these Before he started doing the like trippy three-dimensional hands drawing hands and stuff. When he was doing countryside's besides he didn't do a lot of people didn't do a lot of faces people were very much in the background? In nondescript Even when you look at these when you say Italian still licensee of countryside's what came to mind for me. Were these beautiful lush colorful recreations of countryside. Nope nope when you look at these. They've they've still look very much like in the MCS her style that we all know. Yeah like very clearly a lot of to their cool. Yeah they're beautiful they're black and white and then shades of gray ray which is all just shading right But they are beautiful in their way. Lovely even I like this stuff more than the trippie stuff. Oh Yeah Yeah I mean this is something I would put my wall all. You're an art SNOB. You're like oh I only like early Italian landscapes. Oh man take that should be SOA shamed no. I think it's great chuck. You have totally right But they are gorgeous and then in nineteen twenty-three. He met his wife his name was Jetta Jetta. That's right very nice. Thank you She was sworn from the they met her in Italy but she was Swiss Swiss and She went home and they sent a bunch of love letters. Very sweet story. I'm sure. MCI movie would be pretty cool. I it somebody wrote a script. They wrote a dissertation about the process of writing a script about emcee Esher from University of Texas in two thousand seventeen. I can't remember the name. Aim of it but just look up. Just some random stuff comes up if you look up mosquito blueprint which will come up late right but if you search which then on Google it brings up. Have you ever done that. Have you ever been like. I'm bored. I WANNA see weird stuff I can unlock from Google and it takes a certain amount of skill because Google wants to give you exactly what you're looking for. It doesn't want to give you just randomness trick it. So maybe you'll you'll type in a weird word word or the first three letters of a word or something like that and weird stuff will start to come. Well if you type in mosquito boot print probably only like the first three of them pertain into MCSE and the rest are just a random assortment of links. I remember early in the days of Google We had a mutual friend into they did this. What I thought was very dumb game where they would try and find two words together that they would try and produce the fewest amount of Google results? Oh Yeah and whoever we could put two words together the the first one yeah and if you remember them doing that number you talking waste of time but I remember. There's some guy did did like a Ted talk about that. Yeah well maybe I'm the dummy no no no it was man I mean look at me like MCS early work. I think that's it's awesome. I mean what tastes. Yeah you know. So he meets gets married She returns to Italy and they married in nineteen twenty four. Not Mean Judy. That's right She would become Jeddah. Asher Jeddah you McKay Asher and they had a son named Giorgio later had sons Arthur Arthur and yawn and They were still just sort of traveling and his dad was even though he was married. His Dad was still footing. The bill assures there's Dad mcevers father. Yeah Yeah Yeah which I was thinking about it. I was like Gosh Benefactor. Wake up every day and look at yourself in the mirror but but if you're looking in the mirror sphere how do you how do you draw. Yeah so amazingly the the Father Esther's father through though unlike what better way to spend your money than to just be like this is what you WanNa do with your life son. You WanNa pursue art and live and beautiful Italy than like here. This is what I want for for you down. That's awesome. That's the pinnacle of apparent can do for their child and and a lot of ways. No totally I felt like. Hey why don't you go. Oh you know take up heroin. And here's a bunch of money for you to like lay around into Beatha true. I I WANNA know more. Hope I'm not coming crosses cynical but I wonder if some of this was like he'll come around if I you know to architecture whatever you kept waiting for the part whereas cut them off. I was his father. Apparently apparently wouldn't like that. All right I know how you. I'm not trying to talk you into my way of thinking. I don't think I started out thinking the same way you did and then something happened. I was like I. It was actually really need of his day. It was it all seems about board. Yeah so world. War Two has a profound effect on shirt and his work Nineteen thirty five. He learned that they were Making his nine year old son Giorgio Margin Fascist youth parades and he said. Pack your bags. We're going to Switzerland zero. And that is the appropriate response to that news. Yeah we're getting out of here. Marching for Mussalini Joe Joe Rabbit yet. No is it good. Is it as good as it looks. Great oh I can't wait. It's great everything is create. Do I need to see in theater. It doesn't seem like I mean you know it's always fun into laugh with a big group of people although by now it's probably thinned out yeah And I was laughing. A lot and people weren't laughing. I like one of those deals. Yeah I mean it's a movie we about kid having Hitler as an imaginary friend. So don't tell me that I didn't know I had no idea on the poster. I know but I didn't know he was an imaginary front. I'll get out of my brain. Sorry that really doesn't spoil anything okay. He's like don't tell me any big reveal So they go to Switzerland all apologies at all. It's really not a big spoiler now. No of course not K- They go to Switzerland and he even though he did not like doc the mountains. He didn't like the snow did not like cold weather So they moved to Belgium after a couple of years which is just beautiful. Compared to Switzerland Belgium's Nice Scher in the nineteen in May of nineteen forty though the Nazis invaded Belgium and so they moved to the Netherlands in nineteen forty one. We're the Nazis already were. Yeah I occupy it again. Well it's home right And they settled in barn learn which is about twenty three miles southeast of Amsterdam. I don't know if that's how you're supposed to say it. Be a a a a are uh-huh Baron. Oh yeah bet you just nailed it. I think so duchess very strange. which but it's not strange but just for my English dumb English years? Supposedly English is the strangest of all. Yeah I'm sure it's just a hybrid mongrel language. That doesn't make any sense to anyone who's not a native native speaker of it. You know what is an interesting language. Is Welsh Because I'm watching the crown and When Prince Charles starts coming around Prince of Wales? There's there's people speaking Welsh and I I was very ignorant about even knowing that what it sounds like what it sounds like and that it was still spoken and It was very odd hybrid brid. It sounded like of several different things. It's all old Celtic stuff. Yeah unusual gallic Golic. Yeah I think it's Golic. Let's say language group one of due to everything I know about Welsh learned from super furry animals. Oh Yeah because that guy's Welsh man. I saw them blood granddaddy off the stage one time. Oh you saw him live Oh I think he told me that melted my brain so good. I'll bet so. They're traveling around still even though they're settled in baron and they go back to Al Hamra in Spain. which aren't we said what that is? No IT'S A it's a thirteenth century. Morrish Castle Moore's concord Spain's stains beautiful. It is very beautiful and they built it in the more style and then it was eventually taken over by the Christian royalty that that explored the new the world and all that stuff. Yeah but this castle was done in these tiles that are renowned for being some of the most beautiful old geometric like Islamic patterns. You've ever seen in your life and they got to assure he'd seen him before but it it was. I guess he was like. Oh that's kind of cool right. The second trip that he went back with after they moved to two from Switzerland Belgium or maybe to Switzerland That's when he was like I. Am obsessed with these now. Tesla rations started drawing them jetted into says that they work together. So I'm not. I didn't know that she was an artist. I right yeah I didn't either But they World War Two comes back around will not comes back around it never left. Let's be honest but Spain Spain would devolve into civil war and so this meant that he was kind of stuck in In outside of Amsterdam for a little while longer yeah. He wasn't doing in as much traveling. No he was in the Netherlands in He rekindled his friendship with Mosquito his old mentor tour Who had stayed another? Lund's this whole time and mosquito was Jewish and he was taken away by the Nazis. Eventually he was killed at Auschwitz really with his wife terrible and their son was also killed another concentration camp by the Nazis. And this really got to assure. Yeah like this is one of his dear friends and he had A work a sketch of mosquitoes. When he went to his house to visit visit mosquito he found the door was open and they weren't there and they clearly have been taken by the Nazis and one of the pieces of artwork that gathered together to preserve was a sketch of mosquitoes? That had a Nazi blueprint on it. And that's what you were referencing earlier with your Google. Search mosquito blueprint did you. was there a picture of it. No I couldn't find anything aside from the fact that it was a sketch not that it was a sketch of. What like that just that? There was a sketch of mosquitoes that was that had a boo aboard. Blueprint and that s your hang hung onto. This is his entire life. Life is very important to him and he was not Very flowery like Like passionate man or anything like that. I get the impression that he And this is actually. I'm talking about the he internalized a lot of stuff And I I think that him holding onto that piece of art was probably a more significant than even at appears on the outside. Yeah and Supposedly hid some people from a Jewish family during the Nazi occupation years and also during the same years did not exhibit or release. Any Prince. Wait a minute I think he just said hit some people from Jewish family. Did you say hit some members of a Jewish family. Well people members of a Jewish family from I think yeah I mean like they were from a Jewish family. Got To hide them from right right. Don't tell the Jewish family that you're hiding being over here now that would have been weird So maybe we should take a break now. Oh I think it's unravels guys are. Yeah Yeah Okay Chuck so World War Two kind of comes and goes around Esher despite his best efforts to escape it And I it definitely had had a mark on him but one of the other things that that had a really big mark on him was having to move from Italy like you said like he was married had family his father was still supporting him and every spring and summer he would just tour the Italian countryside and visit small quaint towns. Just be inspired to keep making these Italian landscapes gapes but ed makes a really great point here that his Italian landscapes are very handsome. Works of art very beautiful. My favorite technically proficient there chuck's favourite. But you would. It almost certainly have never seen them in your entire life now. Were it not for him moving from Italy because in doing so he lost his source of inspiration nations and it was forced to kind of turn inward because he hated was Switzerland looked like he wasn't apparently very inspired by his home country of the Netherlands So we had to kind of turn inward into his own imagination and start coming up with new subjects and in doing that. The True Escher was was unlocked. Yea because early in like a lot of artists early in their career they they kind of free range through different styles trying to find their own personal thing he had a very the Very colorful clown period. It's very bizarre. Doesn't fit with the rest of it very John Wayne Casey right but you can very clearly really see if you look at Mosquitoes work that connection and the influence from him Although mosquito did a lot of sort of graphic portrait's and things like that bad whereas escher didn't really worry too much about humans and faces. Yeah Yeah They would they were just kind of like almost afterthoughts but early on. He did start experimenting with stuff that would later become his hallmark When he did do like a a sketch of a building? Let's say it would be from this really like Mike Tall odd angle looking down on it. very severe angles and Like a a horizon or trees that sort of go on into infinity stuff like that that would become Very much his style later on and Ed various points out that there's something about his style that I don't know how dark of a person he was. Jin emotionally but there is something about the severity of these angles and a lot of his work. That was just sort of uneasy feeling right. It didn't look like just some beautiful colorful Italian countryside there was something kind of strange and Unusual about it something about the the contrast of black and white definitely does it to you and he was such a master of shading that if something was a stark and black and white I mean unless it was his earliest work because he wanted to look that way and to make it stark and kind of unsettling. Like that there's like a certain amount of dread in a lot of his stuff. Yeah and it's not something you can easily put your finger on but it's definitely there. Yeah like did you see The the mummified priests yeah that was creepy and then one of it. Isn't it more creepy to actually do that. In real life to mummify these little Alcoa's absolutely sure don't kill the Messenger and he would have Sometimes skulls featured in some of his work working and stuff like that like the one of the I believe called I right in the middle of the people is a skull staring back so we have little touches like that without going full. Well like You know love crafty in right or Goya or something like that. Iran's Bosh I don't know who that is sure you do just kidding okay and others people okay so His I guess this is where we get to the fact of the show for me. Take it away truck because folks if you've ever seen an emcee print and he thought man that guy could sure draw a print imagine cutting that out of wood in reverse in reverse because it's what he did a lot of his stuff. Where would cuts even harder than that? Chuck is the lithograph. Yeah so a woodcut cut if you've ever made a used a stamp or made a potato stamp. MCI well that's what it is. He's actually carving the stuff vendor would as a negative image because then when you run INC over it and stamp it you get the positive image and it's just incredible. I mean it's hard enough to draw and sketch the stuff stuff right much less cut. It would right so so just take a step back and think about the ashes that you've seen before. Imagine that they were. They were originally carved out. Avoid Loyd and now imagine that to get even more detail because you can't adjust how much ink is certain. Part of the woodblock kits is all GonNa get an even layer of ink so to shade. Something you have to do cross hatching lines stiffling ZANU like that but to get really detailed with shading you need. Multiple blocks talks of the same image. The exact same size with different parts accentuated. So that you can layer over you can take the same paper and in layer them on different blocks in line them up so that you have layers to this image. That was the level of the wood cuts. This guy was doing wing. That's sort of like a t shirt in the exact screen printing like a four color shirt. You gotta lay you gotta put it on exactly in the in the spot. It needs to go each time drag that NCA- Cross. Yeah so it's not you know off by a centimeter right because it would look bad. So the wood cuts especially especially as earlier woodcut. You can tell there would cuts. They look like would cuts. Yeah some of them do not. There's some of the Italian countryside That Save Ritz are just yeah just astounding when you stop and think about the idea that they they're drawing that there would cuts multiple mocked would cuts is is pretty astounding. Like I was saying to me. Even even more difficult is making the lithograph. Yeah I think I talked about this on some other episode I know talked about teaching but also talked to industrial arts. We did Set Lavar graffiti in that social experiment. Highschool go We did offset lithography which basically I mean that's the process today. I mean that's how they make newspapers posters books maps kind of everything. This is offset lithography. It was in you remember. It was in the Edges Ketchup so oh that's real. High originally did was lithograph. Okay this is a deep cut. This is pre like today use like aluminum or some other kind of metal sheet right and these emotions nations and chemicals Back then It was johnny limestone a flat slab of limestone with a grease pencil. And then I used chemical treatment to on the areas that basically water naked. Don't mix it sort of all built on that principle right so the areas where you have Britain and Greece Do not hold that ink or is it the other way round. No I think they don't hold the again. What you're doing is creating a negative image? Just like the Woodcut essentially usually right. So you've got this Attraction and repulsion interplay between INC water in Greece right. And when you put it all together on limestone it makes these extremely subtle gradients of shading That are kind of like a hallmark of some of issues more Well known works. The Hands Drawing Hands Right. Yeah that was a lithograph. He made that with limestone in Greece. Pen and ink and Did it in reverse too. Because just like with the woodblock you have to create the negative of it. Yeah because the you want the positive image on the paper you have a very special brain if this is if you can work this stuff out as an artist yes you know it's Uh Not saying that any kind of artists any better or worse or smarter than the next but your brain just has to be wired a little bit differently to that thinking negatives like that like a mathematician basically. Yeah your brain has to be set up that way. Yeah absolutely But lithography is difficult very labor intensive offensive Later on he would hire a lithography to actually create his parents after he is sketched drawn. Stuff out smart move and he would destroy the the limestone while he wouldn't destroy it. He would scrape it cleans we can reuse it right. So that's the reason like if you want to buy an original M C escher good luck well. There's there's I think there's original prints that he made an apparently you're not going to get your hands one of those limestones no but there are a couple of those leftover but he said that he wanted him am I think cancelled is what they call it in his will right where they intentionally damage it so that even if you got a hold of one of these things and you're like I'm going to print me a brand rain New Hampshire There'd be like the like the negative image of snuggle push like come through the the Handwriting Hands Picture and he did not do many original prints from those original wood cuts and lithographs. Either think he only did ten of still life with Spiritual Mirror UH and so anything. Obviously anything you buy an spencer gifts is going to be a print anyway. What they told me it was an rich mean Bikini Lady on Corvette probably get the original? Data's been through the original negative Jeannie Lady it could be. How man remember with Lamborghini the These lithographs he would also layer those just like you do with the woodcut. Creating multiple the plates to layer on top of one another for shading intoning and stuff like that right. Just amazing. Yeah I mean I did it to make monkeys t shirt. I forgot used a screen green print too. So did I. Yeah well actually. The monkeys t-shirt was screen printing. I think a kimber boy what I did for a lithographic something to make a note pad it said said like my name and something else. Oh that's right so you you've screen printed in industrial arts. Yes okay you were you ever employed gainfully as a screen Oh No oh no did you do that. Yeah now I mean I would have loved to it. I wasn't good enough. It's always a hard. Yeah but I mean you would draw the stuff or you know the burn the screens and everything and drag the ink through for for a job like high school. No this is not a legitimate college. What kind of doughty make doing that? Jack Yeah but it's fine. It's cool work. You know useless needed a few bucks pretty much hang out with some cool dudes and you know. Yeah Yeah I gotcha say good early college job. You know what I mean. I think it'd be cool and I mean there's a very cool t-shirt local t shirt shop here that every time I go over there because that's where our friend The patch maker Katie culp works or at least you used to think. She's got her own space now. Oh cool she shared a space with with t-shirt dudes and anytime in their system. Good vibe you know what really is. There are a lot worse places to spend your time than t shirt shop. Yeah so Oh another thing. We should point out is that he did do color. Occasionally Butt color was a whole different entity separate stone for each color right. So that's that's why a lot of his stuff ended up in black and white right aside from the fact that he liked it as well. Yeah he seemed to be very pleased with black and white in general yeah. I'm not saying he was lazy. No but let's take a step back here for a second and examined the idea that you thought. MCSE was a pretty amazing artist when you just imagined that he was sitting in his studio drawing in all of this stuff with a pencil now really let it sink in that. He carved these things in reverse out of wood or limestone or limestone and then use. He's crazy techniques to make these extraordinarily detailed incredibly precise and technical works of art. It's amazing it it really is amazing truly astounding and like you said there are a few of those stones and wood blocks That are owned by the MC foundation SNUGGLE PUSS on every single one of them and apparently they will they will display them occasionally Along with his works right which I imagine seeing that and then looking at the work of art and then going back and looking at that limestone and then looking at the work of art or really kind of sinks in like. Oh my yeah. I'd love to see an exhibition of his stuff. Me Two. They've picked up in recent years. I yeah. It seems like he's being more appreciated As a truly great artists in less how storm while material Yep in two two thousand eleven the record for highest overall attendance in the world out of all the museums in the world that year was at the Centro Cultural Banco do Brasil Lil which held their magical world of exhibit. Oh five hundred. Seventy thousand visitors about ten thousand a day holy cow. Yep So if you think lithography woodcutting sounds difficult. We'll talk a minute about measure tint That is sort of like woodcutting woodcutting. Except you're using a sheet of copper that starts out as a rough surface no and then use these little tools to smooth out things that are going to be the image wjr applying that ink and then wiping it off right so those places you smooths out are the ones that are going to be white on the paper blind on the paper. All right It's the rough edges that hold the ink so you cover the whole thing inc.. Wipe it down. The smooth starts parts. Come clean the rough stuff Has the ink in. You can use this like this is this isn't like Oh look are made an ex led to believe define Stiffling is possible with these copper plates and all this in a measure ten. And that I that you were talking about the skull if you go back and look at that That was a mess tent. And Yeah so it was do drop. Yeah Very detailed cupped leaf Showing a single drop of do inside it with all kinds of cool reflections But extra called this. The Black Art He only made eight of these because it is a real undertaking and I think he is just I. He he did a handful of them and then moved onto the far easier. woodcutting right right. He's like came back baby. All right. We'll we'll take a break and then we'll come back and pick up With his life story again which is a liberal left off in what into World War. Two sounds right Okay World War Two's over MCSE was like a lot of people very rattled by that experience in Europe and At this point he still is not a super famous artists making tons of money. No but he's more famous than than this makes makes him out to be like. Yeah he's he's got some renown in the Netherlands or certain circles a bit yeah But he's not anywhere anywhere even approaching Ching how he is today or how he has been the last few decades since about like the late sixties. College dorms have not yet started putting stuff everywhere no but the people who who who most appreciate what. He's doing our scientists and mathematicians who are like this is astounding. This guy is taking what we write out his formulas and turning them into art and making them precise. Yeah like you could describe this work of art as formula. That's that is what. MCI was able to do. He was able to take math breath and translated into a visual art. Yet and You know remember what you said earlier. This is where we are in his life where he is He is not in the Italian countryside. Decide he's been ripped from its bodice so his muse is gone and he is now looking inward for inspiration in his own Unique brain who's being forced into his own bodice face I. This is where he starts with these solutions. More elaborate geometric shapes he's doing The lizards and the birds and insects. This is testing a really really cool stuff His brother Said Hey dude you know what you should do is go talk to crystallography. He's I WanNa talk detailed tapes. Yeah math yeah. And he does so and that taught him a lot and then he learned about the seventy seventeen wallpaper groups. Yeah which is so dense. It's that I you know how much do even WanNa talk about. Well the the summit up the seventeen wallpaper. Groups basically is a mathematical concept that says every geometric pattern two-dimensional geometric pattern falls into one of seventeen categories. There's only seventeen and they're called kind of half jokingly the wallpaper groups because wallpaper has geometric patterns usually right Asher we couldn't understand it. mathematically yet was proved out twice independently Bentley. The was that there are seventeen. The mathematical proof one of the things. That's interesting chuck. The Alhambra apparently is the only place in the world that contains all seventeen metric wallpaper patterns within its walls. That's pretty cool. Yeah so of course would appeal to Esher. But he didn't understand he couldn't sit down and explain like we can't with the seventeen wallpaper. Groups are or what they mean mathematically but he understood them intuitively and as he became. Came friends with mathematicians you know about mid career He was apparently kind of amused to find. Like you know these guys spend all all this time writing this stuff out and these formulas and I know it was almost like I was born knowing it. Yeah Yeah I mean I guess he was real cocky. Yeah he wasn't really onto and I didn't get the idea either that he was like. Take your math and shove it was just a little more amused like you've got these mathematical proofs and That like I'm drawing stuff for my creative brain on limestone down cutting it out of wood So I think he appreciated jaded the way they coalesced but And he was very like you said most of his friends were mathematicians. I think later in life Who did he? Yeah Roger Lionel Penrose and I love how it's described here father and son mathematician team. Yeah you know. Those people were matching Dolphin. Short uh-huh Oh man further uniform. I wish people still were those. Did you ever wear those no. They were a little before my time. Well they were for joggers. The runners yeah two thousand eleven. And who do I forgot about that. Yeah that is what hooters waitresses lawrence dolphin shorts shorts with Remember Bronze Pantyhose. Yeah and then Chunky White SOx yeah. It was very bizarre interesting. Look somebody put that together and not a woman man. Do you remember. There was a there was a hooters. Airline what yeah. Wow that kind of rings a bell. That was very short lived. I imagined I believe so. It was pretty short lived interesting. I guess yeah so you would get asked like what kind of drink. And what style of chicken wings chicken wings on this course but key. Imagine being on an airplane being forced to smell chicken wings. The whole time for you didn't like it That's like every flight I ever take. It's true there's somebody with some stinky food. You know if I sit next to somebody on the plane and I'm GONNA eat. I asked them if it's okay if I eat. If you bring food on Yup I. I don't bring food onto a flight sometimes you just have to. It's a long flight and I'M NOT GONNA run out of Turkey wraps like in the first half a second so you just pull out what. You're what my tongue Powell that you had just in case they're out of Turkey round not even containers just in my pocket. Oh goodness so thought this part was sort of amusing How orderly he always was with his art and he he tried to get into chaos a bit and This one work contrast parentheses order in chaos parentheses wherein he went in Dug up a bunch of trash instead I will I will draw chaos and it ended up being if you go and look at it. There's like a broken bottles broken eggshell an open sardine ten broken clay pipe and some other refuse drawn to like perfect arrogance woodcutter lithographs with perfect beautiful precision that was chaos. His interpretation of it just couldn't do it. He was very much preoccupied with cassie is very famous co probably his most famous co quote. We adore chaos. Because we'd love to produce order and he's like by we he. I mean yes. Sure sounded very much like an ice statement but he was. He was very much into geometry and precision and clean lines and all that yeah and also as his career would Progress this this these repeating patterns on a finite space If you've seen his circle limit that series that's where you'll find the fish or these demons and they start out with like one in the center and then there's a pattern all around as it gets closer and closer to the edge. They get smaller and smaller and smaller. And you can sort of imagine that there is no end right to these shapes that they're just going infinitely around this fear perfectly but again and you have to stop and remind yourself this is a two dimensional image. I'm looking at right. And then secondly this is cut out of wood but yeah he apparently made a three dimensional mentioned wood carving of his circle series later on in life and I'll bet that's spectacular to see to the he made it what a three dimensional basically proving that his his two dimensional drawing accurate. Yeah because he made it in the three dimensions that's awesome. He was just showing off toward the end there. I like reptiles aside from his early countryside. Work that is far superior Detention of lizards and reptiles is really neat. That's the one and it has The lizards being like crawling off of the page as a drawn image circling around walking over some books and then crawling back back over onto the page drawn image. Yeah very neat is It's a lot like the hands drawing drawing hands one kind of where the hands. Yeah drawing themselves or one another but they're also three dimensional too and that actually kind of jobs with another quote. He had That I think really sums that style style of Arda he said the flat shape irritates me. I feel as if I were shouting to my figures you are to fictitious for me. You just lie there static etiquette frozen together do something come out of there and show me what you're capable of life and he would shout it just like that and then jeter would back out of the room okay dear And that sort of brings us to the reptiles We we need to talk a little bit about illusion Because it started sorta early on he was preoccupied with illusion whether it was like these lizards coming off the page or a still life and street which is tabletop that blends into a street scene. It's a neat one. Yeah it's really cool. I like that one too Or relativity which I don't know I mean. Is there a most famous. Maybe the hands. It's between hands self-portrait with fear and relativity relativity is the one with the the staircase people going up and down stairs. That don't go. Oh anywhere but they go everywhere and they circle back on each other and it's just an impossible staircase actually called penrose stairs really. Yeah after the famous father and son mathematician ESPN and speaking of the penrose is they say mathematician. I just minutes something did. I did amazing completely by accident The Penn roses that would be great mathematician. That's something four but the penrose is apparently road they saw some work wrote a paper explaining his work about impossible. Things like impossible stairs which came to be called penrose stairs and and Escher was either mailed a copy of this or somebody pointed out to him so he created something called House of stairs or upstairs downstairs. One of the the two and One of the original prints to the pen roses so in a way. They're correspondents and inspiration for one. Another was like a set of impossible. astaire's in real life that interesting. Yeah and this. Is You know we were talking earlier about how his work somehow felt unsettling and you know the subject matter as well when you think about these. The the subjects walking and relativity right clearly. Never getting anywhere walking downstairs. I'm inside ways all of a sudden. I'm walking back into the same staircase. I was just on like you imagine if these things were to come alive they would be frustrated. Angry the people right and act as a matter of fact one of the The one that you're talking about upstairs downstairs they That was supposedly based based on a staircase in his school. Really which suddenly says quite a bit about psychology. Don't you think well how so Yeah well I mean like these students aren't going anywhere. They're not even human. There's with human faces Gotcha. And they're kind of trapped in this what you could definitely call like like a A purposeless existence in this building. Kind of dark building interesting so he does finally achieve really great fame later in his life Like you said. He was holding exhibitions in the Netherlands in a little bit in Europe but he did want to Belgium in nineteen fifty that lead to An article in the studio which was art magazine and that captured the attention of a journalist. Who wrote about him in time and life magazines which definitely propped up a little bit Then that lead to a larger exhibition at the International National Mathematical Congress and fifty four flash forward to sixty six he was featured in Mathematical Games column in Scientific Typical American by Martin Gardner Math Magician. I guarantee that's the thing And that increased is and this was sixty six so so it was kind of perfect timing with the hippies and the drugs and the counter culture right and I guess who was it Graham Nash? Graham Nash Mick Jagger Cinema Fan Letter I made the mistake of calling him by his first name. I really. Cheshire did not appreciate Stanley Kubrick tried to recruit him to make two thousand one space odyssey see a fourth dimensional film Yeah there's this interesting article called the impossible world of MCS share that Steven poole wrote in The Guardian. That has a lot of that stuff in it but he was he was kind of like no. I'm good over here with math mathematician friends. Well once he was featured in a scientific American that led to the big daddy of if a mall he got featured in rolling stone and then after that it was it was all over he. He was huge. Yeah Dorm Room huge Four hundred and forty eight works then this doesn't count all the sketches and drafts these are like the actual final works right and like we said earlier he died nineteen seventy-two cancer. The just seventy three and I tried to find more about his family but there's not a lot out there like his sons and whether or not his I mean I guess grandkids would be contemporaries race of ours. Yeah he was born in eighteen ninety nine well great grandkids. Maybe yeah okay. I guess if his kids we're born in the nineteen twenties yeah contemporaries of our parents. Maybe sure the hold stirs. Yeah boomers may boomer boomer so that right in that that journey to infinity movie apparently all three of his children appear in it. If you want to know more about them go watch watch that. I saw a picture of him where he looked a lot. Like our old colleague John Fuller when John had a beard. Oh yeah he did. Didn't it's a little bit like him. Yeah it's it's not expecting that so there's that's right speaking. You're not expecting that Bikini Babe on corvette sure uh-huh and hooters air line appearances in the MCAS. Your point out if you want a more about any of those things go onto the Internet and start searching and Since this time for a listener mail hey guys have been listening to your show since two thousand eleven even see you. I've even seen you on your first amazing show in Chicago and had to wait a whole year to hear that on the podcast That's how it works. Sorry guaranteed that. It's going to be the show you saw a lot of podcasts. Put out just tons and tons of live shows We we don't do that. Yeah I honestly think the live shows are a little better in person. I don't think they make is a fan of other podcasts. I don't think they make for the best. Just regular content content. I think most people think that but we do so. That's why we only put out the one right so back to the letter. This show is so great I would even save high interest episodes for my son under. Listen to over the years You were one of the few people that can keep his attention and never thought it would right but as a science teacher you said something recently that it's so true some of the S. science websites our children's science websites or if a definition is too difficult. I always tell people to look up a child's definition for that word Really good tip hip guys. Thanks for sharing that. Thanks for all your work and now I will have to figure out what to do now that I am finally caught up. Keep up the great work. And that is from Cheney with an eye. Thanks Jenny with an eye. Hopefully you dot the I with the heart maybe with a little reflection on the side of the heart. You remember that one to curb lines top with a Tops in and I guess bottomed with the straight line. I think I know what you're talking about. Heroes Show you oh boy since we just just oh sure that yeah yeah. It almost looks like a bent. Roman numeral two inside the heart. That's a that's the reflection election of light. That's where the lights coming from speedy. Thank you S. your reference treasure that You're welcome chip. I wasn't going to give it to you but now it has to sign it. I If you want to get in touch with us you can go onto stuff. You should know dot com and look for our social links there and you can also send us an email like Jenny with the night did you can and send it to stuff. PODCAST iheartradio DOT COM stuff. You should know is production of iheartradio's how Asta works for more podcasts. IHEART radio is iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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David Crosby, In And Out Of Harmony

The Frame

25:41 min | 1 year ago

David Crosby, In And Out Of Harmony

"It from the Broadcast Center at K._p._C._C.. This is the frame I'm John Horn on today's show a con artist has been impersonating some prominent women in Hollywood and she hasn't yet been caught fought. Then David Crosby gets real a new documentary. It's produced by Cameron Crowe. WHO's interviews with a singer songwriter forced crosby to reflect on a whole lot of things even? I don't want to admit I care what people think it enters it matters how I look at myself and doing this has made it easier to look at and we catch up with Linda Ronstadt on her seventy third birthday all that coming up on the frame our first story is about Hollywood hustle that sounds a bit like a plot from a movie and at the center of it is one woman who's been dubbed the con- Queen She's impersonated high powered Hollywood executives such as former Sony Pictures Chirs co-chair Amy Pascal and Lucasfilm President Kathy Kennedy her victims include actors photographers makeup artists. She promises them jobs but it's all a rip-off for more. We have Scott Johnson. He's a senior writer. The Hollywood reporter and he's been investigating this story. He told us more about how the scheme works so there are a few different iterations of the scam but the one that has attracted the most attention is the impostor pretends to be one of several very high profile people including Amy Pascal or Kathleen Kennedy and in the guys of these famous people get in touch with up and coming industry professionals be the actors stunt people and offers them at work opportunity that involves travel to Indonesia and once they're in Indonesia once they've been convinced that the offer is real and that they make the a trip to Indonesia. They're then asked to pay for ancillary services that include things like driving translating and then that money disappears and the remarks are never reimbursed the other thing that I think is notable is incredibly sophisticated and well done. This is not just like an email from some guy in Nairobi needing a thousand dollars to claim a lottery ticket. The voices prices are well impersonated the research there is a level of detail and thought that is put into this that I have to say is almost extraordinary. It's really pretty remarkable because the impostor is really doing a a lot of homework getting to know the marks like for instance. If she's targeting an instagram photographer you know she'll be very familiar with the photographs you know where they've published who they might have come across in their professionalize. <hes> when it comes to the people being impersonated like the high profile Hollywood people the voice work is exceptionally well executed everything about it appears real and legitimate in your update. It feels like there a couple of new developments elements. Let's deal with the most tawdry one I and that is that the con- queen appears to be trying to get people to engage in. I guess we can just call what it is phone sex. Is that always been part of the deal or is it a little bit more aggressively the and explicit now yes. This is sort of another part of the scam and it's been around for some time but it appears to serve accelerated more recently but basically yes. It's it's phone sex but but this portion version of this scam doesn't appear to have any financial element or financial gain. It's simply a bid to get people to do things that the con- queen wants them to do so there's a lot of elaborate performance involved evolved very often. The Con- clean will ask people to quote unquote audition for role which involves pretending to engage in risk gay conversation sexually explicit conversation a lot of sort of very risk risk ape language. We're talking with Scott Johnson at the Hollywood reporter about the con- Queen of Hollywood the F._B._i.. Has Gotten involved how might that change the investigation and is it fair to say that some of the victims of the con- Queen Queen have been a little reluctant to share their stories. A lot of victims have been reluctant to share their stories. I think for live image embarrassing a lot of them feel alone that even though they know that other people have been victimized they feel ashamed that they shouldn't witnessed fallen for it. That's not obviously the case but a lot of them feel that way so with the F._B._i.. Is doing now is trying to collect as much information as it can and they've been helped in large part by the efforts of <hes> some private investigators instigators one in particular called K. Two intelligence which is also been tracking the case for quite a while and it sounds like some of the victims who might not have lost any money are nevertheless traumatized by what they have gone through. What are people telling you about how being kind even if they've been tricked into some sort of sex phone call have been affected by the com- kind of the victims especially those who been lured Indonesia have literally lost tens of thousands of dollars dollars in some cases so those people the sense of betrayal is very deep and very real and then more recently the people who've been victimized in this sort of sexual cat fishing scheme and there's a lot of questioning named goes on why me that kind of thing and then I think lastly for the people who've been impersonated like <hes> Victoria Lonzo of marvel either high profile people with big reputations to protect and it's terrible to their identities stolen and abused? Here's my last question it does feel like there is a show business aspect to this story and that is that they are selling this dream of job of contact. It's. Obviously a very competitive town to get work. Do you think that's true that there's unique show business aspect of this and praying on people's hopes to somehow rise above the pack and and get a job. I think it's very real and I think that you sir hit it right on the head with this idea of dreams a lot of these people there was this sense of potential whatever they were being asked to do how however outrageous or outlandish or or costly even that it might have been that perhaps on the other end of it there would be something that could be potentially life changing a a great job a lot of money <hes> really great connections and so in a sense that's kind of genius of the scam that is that it targets targets people in this particular vulnerability <hes> which is their own hopes and dreams and desires ambitions and I think that's what has saddened so many of the people who've been impersonated especially as that they're good names have been used used to betray the hopes and dreams of people who are trying to make it in a very tough industry Scott. Johnson is a senior writer at the Hollywood reporter Scott. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you so much coming up on the frame. David Crosby is the subject of a Ward Seol Documentary. David Crosby is beep is best known for making music with Stephen Stills Graham Nash and Neil Young and Crosby has pretty much torched his relationships with all of those colleagues and many more now his life with its ups and downs including a stint in prison is the subject of the new documentary David Crosby remember my name. The movie is produced by Cameron Crowe. He's the filmmaker behind almost famous and Jerry Maguire was once a young rock journalist. The documentaries director is A._J.. Eaten I sat down with Eaton Crow and Crosby after the movie had its World Premiere the Sundance Film Festival in January. We'll start with David crosby. They really did not give me any any place to hide at at all then we're mercilus but they were determined because he sent me since she was seventeen. He knows everything that's happened. We've talked a lot. He's my friend Cameron. I'm going to ask you about your journalistic relationship with David and there's a point in the film where you pull out a tape that you have saved for many years. I think it's one of the first interviews that you did with David. Can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with David and y you you had some questions that you still had left to ask will John. I ran into them <hes> A._J.. And David as they were just starting to talk to people about doing documentary and my feeling was just looking at David. He's ready ready to talk. He's ready to go there so I said to these guys. I'm doing other stuff but just let me interview him. 'cause I saw that look in his eyes and that's all I wanted to do. I just wanted to give A._J.. Interviews for his documentary and I knew David from when I was seventeen he was one of the first interviews I ever did. I was so grateful that he made the time to do because he didn't do interviews in the day he kind of you know China Little <hes> grace upon a kid journalist analysts right so I had like so many questions for him and <hes> I got through every one of them. He spent hours with me. Oh seventeen in these were the greatest answers ever so I thought you know all come in. I'll do some interviews vs with these guys and then the the waters got so deep and the feelings got so rich I became more and more involved with <hes> with with Glee but to make the film as honest as you WanNa make it even if your friends and even if you have great respect for David it means you have to go to some places that are gonna be uncomfortable and it could be about bus to relationships it could be about something as painful to watch and I think you'll agree as you and Stephen Graham singing silent night at on some mm T._v.. Thing yeah talk painfully point was are we going to duck that stuff and just put a ribbon Ebanon and say Gee David Crosby was so no there's a story to be told and we're not into put fluff out there and we did talk about some painful stuff and yeah that was a painful moment they had are are monitored mixes switched still hearing my monitored on your was here in his so he couldn't get any pitch at all so he was like wildly attitude wasn't really his fault. It was a screw up by the monitor mixer there but it sounded like we felt it's a vivid moment in the film. I don't think David was sure we were GONNA use it or not. I told him not to. They totally ignored me on everything like that. I it several places. I should do not do that so I was just so happy to have that in the Phil because it's so fricking real but here I just want to say like when we showed the film for the first time there was such a real moment because David had not seen the movie none of us. It's the move big audience and instead of somebody getting up there in a Glib ways and I'm glad you enjoyed my Kalpa film or something he was still in shock. He was still in shock as he stood up there. In front of the audience in the audience got to see him processing what they just seen and we're processing and it was remarkable moment to be seven feet away as you realize that the audience was wrapping its arms around you they were with you and as you started to realize that and come come into your answers that to me that was the greatest experience of the whole process so real agent Cameron. There certain people are central to the story Joni Mitchell Graham Nash. Did you try to talk to. They not wanNA talk. How did you go about that? We just made a conscious decision that we wanted crosby to be sold narrator of his story and we didn't. We decided that we didn't want to do a big cavalcade of Oh. This person Oh crosby it was this and that we didn't want to do a bunch of talking heads and so when we first put the first assembling together we realized that we those people and the and the portrait that cross paints with them in the movie. I didn't need that the people that he's worked with and his collaborators are still in our kind of circle of people that we know and work with and many of them have reached out to us <hes> throughout just said <hes> just be honest say they had to David Good Luck. We're talking with David Crosby Director A._J.. Eaten and producer Cameron Crowe about the documentary David Crosby remember my name. There are so many fractured relationships at the center the story and our fractured relationships that you had a large role and fracturing. Yes you are making a movie where you're not only talking about those fractures but you're hearing from the people whose relationships ships have been blown so when you're watching the movie yourself and hearing what your former friends are saying about you. What is that like? It's good education was hell. I don't Italy's anything there. I didn't know are already wasn't aware of already on the way we consider it in the documentary. I is treated if that was as good as we could. You know we we didn't we didn't slag anybody. We didn't blame anybody the else I'm more than willing to take blame for anything that happened in that group <hes> I'll take more blaming anybody but we all did horrible stuff to each other. We it's an audience watching this movie. Learn a lot about you not just about your music but about out your life and about your health about the people who are important to you when you watch the movie. Do you learn something about yourself that maybe you didn't quite recognize. I learned how badly I want to be a decent human being and have that Rep. I've been other than a decent human being and it's not fun. I was a junkie. It doesn't get any lower than that. Has It changed what you're going to do because at the end of the film I think Cameron ask about. Why don't you just show up at Neil Young's house and say I'm sorry and part of me and I think anybody who's watching movies like yeah show but his house air sorry? I'm already doing what I'm going to be doing. I'm making music the best I can as fast as I can and I apologize to kneel and mortar daryl who was the personally insulted publicly as you can do it. I mean it doesn't get more public and what's his name. The radio show stern show had neil young in here to three months ago and he he was distressed because you had said something about Daryl Hannah on social media you know kneeled left his wife and started dating Daryl. Hannah and you were very critical Daryl Hannah. You said I was yeah. You know what I tell you the truth about that I shouldn't have done it and here's the real reason why I'm a screw up. I have screwed up necessarily Daryl Hannah and never went up in Texas prison prison right. You know I'm screwed up way worsening girl. Where do I get off criticizing her? Where do I get off slagging her? She'd make Neil Happy Right. You know and I love Neil and I want him happy. Do you think you saw the truth. I I apologize Gerald. If you're out there I had no right. I have nowhere to stand to down on you and criticize you. I Apologize. I should not have done it was completely out of line. You know you said you can't just show up on his on our front porch. I I can't do that a I don't know where he lives now. He lost his ranch in divorce so I the only place I know where he lived. Isn't there anymore. You've such an interesting. Look on your face when when you're asked that question in the film I've always wanted to ask you since that moment. What are you thinking when you go because I don't know where his doorstep is and you're just looking at me like I'm not sure? I can't think you know interesting David M._A._C. This last question people who know you. I know you're music. Maybe know something about your life if they go into this movie and are changed by seeing at and how they see you and how they understand you. How do you hope people might be changed and their understanding of you might be changed? I would hope that they would think that I wasn't just rambunctious. You know I would hope that they thought could see that. There was a thought process by most of what I did not all but most and I think then I'm a good lesson in the sense that I'm very imperfect being it's blatantly obvious I'm also trying pretty hard to be decent guy and I think if people you know look at the guy that they looking at the movie. They're gonNA save you know. This is a mixed bag and I shouldn't judge people on one color. People are not a single entity uniformly. They have all kinds of stuff in them and I think when I look at my friends or my family or my wife or my child then I gotta understand there's like good and bad mistakes in and courage and stupidity and all that stuff in there and it's not one picture. It's not one one uniform person. None of us are you weren't she isn't he isn't and that's a good lesson to learn that was David crosby with filmmakers Cameron Crowe and A._J.. Eaten the documentary David Crosby be remember. My name is in theaters on July nineteenth coming up after a short break. It's Linda Ronstadt birthday and she has a lot to celebrate. The singer. Linda Ronstadt turned seventy. The three today but the celebration started a couple of weeks ago when she was honored by Cultural Center in Los Angeles the frame contributor Beto Arcos was there any later spoke with Ronstadt about her influences and the album live in Hollywood. It's a concert recording of hers from the Early Nineteen Eighty s that was recently released. I sat down with Linda Ronstadt at her hotel room the day after she was honored La the charities and our center in downtown L._A.. Throughout her career runs that has has received all kinds of major awards and recognition but she says the celebration that took place a La Plaza was special. I don't usually like things like that. That with Mexicans is fun different feeling. I feel like I'm at home. Ronstadt celebration nation was indeed close to home. Her uncle. Jose Ronstadt shared a family story from the stage in the late nineteen nineties in the middle of concert in Tucson degrade Mexican ranchera singer Lala Beltran Stop the show and asked the question. Is Mr Mazda here yogurt. He asked me to come up the stage. She had beautiful that also took it away and she says Mr Ronstadt on behalf candle. I want you to give this will ever die. Mexican music culture have been part of Ronstadt since she can remember she was eight years old when she first heard Beltran who made a strong impression on her might never would make a business trip to Mexico every every year and he always come back with a bunch of records. We bring back trailers ponchos on Colorado's figure out that he equity Molly Mendoza Miguel has been here in around primarily just fell in love the music in one thousand nine hundred and again in Nineteen ninety-one runs that released albums that paid homage to that music artery Doppler yeah well. I just wanted to be professional singer. I wanted to learn the song in those days. You couldn't look up on the Internet you know and find it. You had I had my dad that have a scratchy working for my dad and I couldn't find the lyrics and I don't speak Spanish so I didn't know I'll have to write them down the record so I just learned the melodies the influence of Mexican music music in her pop songs. I fear in Roy Orbison Blue Bayou assumption recorded in nineteen seventy seven runs at says she was trying to channel the deep emotion of the Mexican singer she adored and just me think of Mexicans on especially that I've been chorus and I had a hard time finding a resonance in American pop music because the rhythms are based on the Brigham Culture is really Black Church. The time that that we were doing the late sixties in the early seventies value and eleven other songs are part of the album live in Hollywood recorded before a small audience in Nineteen Eighty Ronstadt remembers vividly the night of the fabled will concert was small audience and it was hotter than hell. It was just too hot to to work as I remember just for sweating trying to say runs that reminisced about the exciting time when she arrived in Los Angeles from Tucson that trumpeter club was at the heart of the music scene in the mid nineteen sixties she says anybody who played well hung out at the club and it became came like a big close-knit family Joni Mitchell and carole king and Elton John James Taylor everybody the Neil Young crosby stills Nash they all played the door and so you got here. I'm glad you got him over several nights. Read the IT recently in an article the you were there. When Elton John made his debut at the laws he came in and sat in did a guest set it was crowded that night so we are all standing up in the balcony and remember Hugh onstage? It was just like an explosion but I sat Joni Mitchell there for two weeks. She played two weeks. I went and saw every single show two shows an I three shows on weekends when Siree show he did jobs these days Ron's that rarely goes out to concerts she retired in two thousand thousand eleven and was diagnosed with Parkinson's in two thousand twelve but go into a big places is physically impossible for me. I go to the opera when I can get a chance he opera and the ballet I asked Ronstadt if she seen any young singers recently when I mentioned mentioned Lamari Soul lead vocalist of Santa Cecilia who performed on the blessed bronze that was excited to talk about her I love her and been stalking her on Youtube and I she so honest the great voice and she's dead serious about the music and into shows. There's an upcoming documentary about Ron's. That's career career when I asked her about it. At first she appear reluctant to comment. I saw rough cut. I haven't you know it was I didn't have anything to do with it. It's a weird feeling being examined that closely you know it was weird to watch it. It's like watching your whole life flush with for your eyes Jeevan dirty no still the documentary entitled to sound of my voice is due out in September for the frame amid the articles and that's it for the frame for this Monday. Remember you can follow us on twitter and facebook.

David Crosby Hollywood Cameron Crowe Linda Ronstadt David Neil Young Scott Johnson Indonesia reporter Daryl Hannah writer Elton John Broadcast Center instagram Joni Mitchell Graham Nash con- Queen Queen Amy Pascal director John Horn Nairobi
Rock N Roll Archaeology Episode 19: 1969 Part II

Pantheon

1:56:14 hr | 8 months ago

Rock N Roll Archaeology Episode 19: 1969 Part II

"Hey, this is your Mugabe. Playing option you are listening to rock and roll archaeology. Beyond the town nuance back is. Margin fields of Concord. Johnny with a musket in his hand martines. God. Marching Gum on wall. John Tell me what. Margin of the field of getting. Looks like handsome Johnny Flint Lock in his hand. Wall! Marching together. Along On. The Ha. In the summer of sixty nine richie havens was a modestly successful folksinger, well liked and respected and engaging nightclub coffeehouse performer. At a couple of albums out solid efforts that never really made a dent in the charts. He definitely looked the part, lean and bearded, dark-eyed, an intense, wearing sandals, a long red to cheeky. Abroad, smile starts. And almost splits his craggy doggy face. Just for a moment. Then it's gone replaced by that dark, eyed, intense stare. Friday afternoon in August of Nineteen, sixty nine here in maxine, asker is meadow. Richie havens assumed the role. The prophet come down the mountain, the maximum soul brother here to gather the tribes and sing out. The call to prayer. People were he said he held the guitar, and out chest, high for a moment assigned to the massive crowd that the convocation was about to begin. There was a restless buzz out there while he fiddled with his tuning. Then he started slashing away at his Open Tuned Guitar Chinking and chiming up top over a pulsing insistent rhythm of Congas. Ritchie's gravelly bed stuy Brooklyn voice carried across green hillsides out over the water's deep into the forests. Out to the highway, still packed with pilgrims. Woodstock? Nation was gathering. Hey, look yonder. Tell me what's that you see. I. It's called the BETHEL. Woods Center for the arts these days. Take state highway seventeen be heading west, at Monticello New York Monga Valley White Lake, smallwood and BETHEL. We're rolling along the southerly side of the catskills. verdant foothills dotted with small lakes. The actual town called Woodstock well. That's back ways on the other side of the Big Lake. County Fan. You head into that big music and art spare. As. Overgrown. Like Richie Havens look the part of the maximum soul brother Max Yaser thoroughly looked his part. It wasn't a role for him. Though look up square white guy from upstate. New York and there's a picture of Max pretty much who was? Good Guy, maybe a little stubborn, but in a good way stubborn about sticking up for people. Three weeks ahead of the festival, Max had met with Michael Lang, bushy-haired Hippie, handsome square Jordan intense. They widen easy smile. Max yeahs self-described, Conservative, Republican, and Michael Lang Fast Talking, Hippie entrepreneur well for some reason. They hit it off. I think he liked the fact that we were doing something. We strongly believed in against tough odds. Bowling said decades later. The site he has dairy farm was idyllic and ideal six hundred unfenced acres where up until now, only dairy cows roamed. It featured a vast natural amphitheatre. Shallow Grassy Bowl, then funneled down towards a level spot, and the stage goes right there. They believed in it, and they backed it up with a certified check for the sum of seventy five thousand dollars. With three weeks to go, suddenly, the festival was back on. We're GONNA throw some numbers around. Before we do keep this in mind. Ain't nineteen sixty-nine US dollar as purchasing power about seven dollars today fifty some odd years later. Four guys partners in something called Woodstock Ventures Mike Lang whom we've just met was the fast talking public face of Woodstock ventures. Teamed up with Artie, Cornfeld. John Roberts and Joel Rosenman. Cornfeld promoted in signed up most of the talent Rosenman was the lawyer John Roberts. Twenty four years old at the time was the money guy. He was a trust fund kit. Is Family founded the polly Dent Corporation? We love learning that the legendary Hippie fast three days that defined a generation was financed by sales of denture cleaner. The Woodstock weekend ended up costing John Personally at least one point three million dollars. That's a lot of pollen dent. Over the three day weekend John took out these some as personal loans with the family business. PUT UP AS collateral. Woodstock ventures was going to be about building a recording studio in the. Life no kidding town woodstock, but that had morphed into a music and arts fair in Wallkill than the good folks at wallkill forced it up the road to Bethel in Sullivan County. It was about two million generated by advance ticket sales. Exact numbers are hard to fine, but at least one hundred and fifty thousand tickets were sold and eighteen bucks for the three day pass, but they ran through most of that before a single note was played, they had invested half a million, prepping the first sight and industrial park outside Wallkill New York. With a month ago, the Wallkill Town Council yanked the permit out from under them, and now that half mill was just sunk costs. Something like twice. That bound eight hundred thousand when to prepare the new site in Bethel. Crews worked day and night, but all they were able to accomplish was build a stage and set setup. The lighting and sound rakes legend. Has It that a bunch of New York City? Anarchists notably Ben Morea remember him from chapter seventeen. Legend has it that Ben and the motherfuckers ripped down the fences, and the crowd searched in and Elia. Yeah, they stuck it to the man that we can. They made Woodstock free mother fucking festival now. That's true as far as it goes, they did bring down some fences. But it was meaningless, symbolic a best. The festival was never fenced off in any kind of real way. Nobody was on site, taking tickets or collecting money. Maurya has been bullshitting interviewers with that for decades. It's Apocrypha just a good story told so many times that it's become part of the Canon. Here's why we know more bullshitting. With less than a week to go lang, the rest of the Woodstock ventures team were confronted with a choice. Finish the fence or finished the stage. And they didn't have the resources or the people to do. Both folks were already showing up in sticking out campsites, so they built the stage. That aspect the tech stuff the light and sound was actually done very well. When you consider the time crunch and everything they were up against. It's pretty amazing. That was stage manager chipmunks doing. Gibb is the guy who makes the solemn stage announcements come to the side of the stage. Apparently, your wife is having a baby, and while it's up to. You may want to consider avoiding the Brown asaid. Filmed of course, and the film ended up being terrific chances. Are you've seen it and more than once same with us? Thing to know here is it's not the actual festival, but rather the woods. Doug movie that came out the following spring. That's what shapes most people's current perceptions of Woodstock. The movie, not the actual festival. The whole thing was recorded to. There's is about ninety hours of music and stage audio in the Woodstock Archives, and most of it is now available to the public in one form or another. The first big Gat was clearwater revival CCR was one of the highest grossing rock acts in the world at that time, and that went a long way towards establishing some credit for Woodstock Ventures Jimmy Janez sly the WHO the airplane soon followed. Conspicuous by his absence. Woodstock Resident Bob Dylan. But his backing group. The ban was on board along. They find lineup of folksingers like arlo Guthrie Tim Hardin and Joan Baez. Within announced lineup like bad. Yeah, they sold some tickets. But there were costs and costs and more costs. About three quarters of a million dollars was spent on talent. Twenty four different acts may between five and fifty thousand for the appearance. Mo- sets were less than an hour long. John Roberts and Woodstock ventures eventually made it all back and then sell off the movie and the album. Keyword there is eventually it was the late seventies before all the debts and bills and lawsuits paid off in Woodstock. Ventures finally show profit. The ball. Can't. Okay back door story. Max Yes, Ker and Michael. Lang shook hands John Roberts handed over a cheque. Woodstock would take place not in Woodstock, and not in Wallkill, but in Bethel. An entire county removed from the original site. That wasn't the only thing about woodstock that was well, not exactly phonier false, but not exactly true, either there's a same the enemy of truth is not belie. The enemy of the truth is the myth. And the mythic, and the mundane, these sacred, and the profane they all mashed up together in the mud that weekend and fifty years have hardened that mythic mud into concrete. We'll try to set the record straight on a couple of things like we did with Ben Morea couple minutes ago. But some other things were just going to let them slide. Two points we wanna hit though the first comes from an interview. We did with your mccallion Guitars for Jefferson airplane. Not so much an interview, but a freewheeling wide ranging chat about yours woodstock. Experience your take on it. key moments throughout the three days musician stepped up and came through with fiery inspired performances, shows that galvanized and unified the massive crowd, and that was a big reason why woodstock just barely? was kept from being a muddy disaster. When we frame the question like that to him. Your answer was simple absolutely. In our opinion, here's a spot where the myth and the reality actually wind up pretty close to one another. We weren't there like your mom, but as we said just a moment ago, it's all archived and we went through it. Sprinkled throughout the festival were great performances from some of the great musical acts of the sixties, big stars like the WHO credence and sly and the family stone did. What big stars do they seize the big moment and delivered in a big fucking way? Newcomers, Santana and Joe Cocker daytime, says that kept everybody rockin and kept everybody's mind off of being dirty, tired, hungry, wet and cold. Crosby stills Nash and young debuted and came through with a transcendent performance. But WHOA WHOA WHOA will get all of that. The point right here is that our main man? Richie havens was just the first of a series of artists who came through in the clutch at Woodstock. A second point and this is even more important. It's why these artists came through. It's what created the space for that to happen. It is personified by someone. We're proud to call friend the PODCAST. He's a friend. Indeed to all of humankind Mr Huron the Berkeley California, the one and only wavy gravy. In an act of inspired men as that dead I, look just like plain old madness. Woodstock ventures hired weighed in about eighty other members of the hog farm. Commune who worked festival waving the HOG farmers brought that. Do It yourself communal digger ethic with them. First thing they did was set a kitchen. They created a space for drug casualties in freak outs to write out the bad trip and get well again. They provided security. A pleace force, but a police force. Please don't do that. Please try this instead. When they arrived at JFK, the press asked Wavy. What tools the hog farmers intended to use for crowd control, insecurity, Seltzer, bottles and cream pies was the answer. While the band's commanded the stage, the hog farmers were out there with the masses in the mud, creating a space and felt safe feeding people, keeping things going sometimes just barely going, but going just the same. It was everything. Do! The towels saw. It was too soon. So. Even three hours now. where we got about seventeen lines. Still. Miss Okay get the puck down. Sun Keeps Shining. Own Rain. The first casualty at Woodstock was the lineup. The opening Bam was supposed to be sweetwater, but they were on the wrong side of a traffic jam, then already nine miles in every direction. Friday was mostly folksingers and acoustic tax. They were easier to set up and as luck would have it. Some of them were actually present backstage that first afternoon like Richie Havens. So about five o'clock four hours behind schedule, they pushed richie out on the stage, and he gathered the tribes. He was followed by sweetwater. They made it then lukewarm sets from folksingers, Burt Summers and Tim Hardin, that set up a gorgeous evening meditation from Ravi Shankar. Out In dark as tob La Tamboura and Sitar notes drifted out into the summer night. A misty rain formed. The crowd was still assembling out there a streaming in setting up and settling down. The Pretty Young Folksinger, Melanie was up next in the ring. God a bit harder during her set. The night sky began to clear some as our Guthrie performed. It was clear and cold by One am. When job, I and start! My Blue Eyes Been Darling young one. Twelve misty mount. Dinara Jones crystalline soprano carried the lullabies that carried the festival to bed. Tomorrow Saturday August Sixteenth Nineteen, sixty nine would come in like a summer day in the catskills. Should blue skies high clouds. And warmth to the air The Sun. Rose. and. By the Dawn's early light. The world beheld Woodstock nation. This podcast is could education and commentary discuss penalties and made some course. Young! Man How studios presents. Rock and roll audiology project. Using. Culture. -nology. Rock and roll. And now author show Hey. Hey, diggers welcome back to the second half of our nineteen sixty nine story. Yes, it's been a while, but just know we are doing what we can to get these things out, and sometimes they take longer than they should add a worldwide pandemic to the mix 'n well. UH, here we are regardless finally finally. Yes, I know. I want to share a another reason for the delay. We are working with a Hollywood team to turn. Your are in our a podcast into a television documentary series. Cross your fingers. Tell your friends and hope we get the green light. Also you may not know but the are a is the first podcast to be presented in full. Hi, Rez Audio, the mothership, Pantheon podcast network worked with the folks over at the Neil Young archives to create the world's first HD podcast. If you go to our website, Pantheon podcasts dot com you can listen. They're for free if your device in connection supported. Look in the upper right hand corner of the player to see if you are achieving full res-. If so enjoy the first podcast ever presented this way. We also want to mention the passing of the Voice of rock and roll archaeology, the big booming voice. You hear to open our shows. Dennis. Gordon has left the building. We wanted to honor him one last time for our intro and ultra bumper. Fare. The well Dennis. So in episode eighteen, we began in the Mayfair district of London on a chilly January day. Where the Beatles played their last gig together, we caught up with the rolling stones as they dismissed. Brian Jones in favor of MC Taylor. The glimmer twins Mick Jagger and Keith Richards have matured as songwriters taking in new influences and are about to unleash a string of peak stones, albums and hits plus. They to get on stage not on a rooftop for just the cameras, but in front of three hundred thousand in Hyde Park, And then we decided to take you all out or space to discuss humanity's greatest adventure so far while showing how books film television and Song, when along for the ride and even helped propel moonshot. Plus we introduced you to a few up and coming artists who will play more prominently in future episodes if you haven't listened to episode eighteen the first part of our story. We suggest you do so before listening to this one now there's your warning. Okay? That gets you up to rocket speed. Are you ready to leave Earth orbit. Onto the second half of the year. Let's get into it. This is episode Nineteen Nineteen. Sixty nine. Party! Up. Down! And we. Got? CRY Painted Pony. The spin wheels spin. No Monday. Got, who. Spent we. All know. Compost. Painted Boehner the spin. What goes up must come down. Less than a month before the Woodstock Gathering Neil, Armstrong Buzz Aldrin, went up went spinning round and came back down. They witnessed earth rise the first to humans to do that. While standing on another celestial body, they look back on a world riven by war and strife, being ruined by commerce runamuck, where ancient hatred still festered where fear and prejudice still held, sway in far too many places, but they had a wide view now. And all the grubby granular details were no longer visible. They were above all of that. It also can be set these two astronauts further from home than anyone has ever been. Looked back on a world united. A realization of Marshall Mc, loons, global village, an interconnected instantaneous world. Going up and coming back down. Divided and united. The Best of times and the worst of times. Like that Dickens? Guy, said. Meanwhile back on Earth satellite communications were no longer new and exotic commercial television and radio made common use of the technology along with civilian aviation and ships at sea. Something big like the Moonshot or a lie. Beatles, performance could be broadcast globally and watched simultaneously by everyone all around the world. A new term entered the lexicon simulcast. In October of nineteen, sixty nine computer scientists sent a simple message from UCLA to Stanford University using for the very first time, a peer to peer digital networking system the early Internet in the fifty plus years since we're going to argue. Not much. That's new as been introduced. That's not to say that all the improvements since then having been incredible. Computers are way smaller and much faster. There's lots more satellites up there. Lots more microwave repeaters down here more capacity, more senators, more receivers more more more. But it's Oh evolutionary, not revolutionary. The basic communication and data infrastructure we still use came online in Nineteen sixty-nine. That's when they laid the foundation. Like we said way back at the beginning. A big year, nineteen, sixty, nine, one of the biggest. Something else about that year of sixty nine and us. This is more than mere coincidence. Nineteen sixty nine is when rocket roll goes worldwide. May Be way see. Time. Own Away to paper. I had. I'm begging. Back. On June twenty-fifth, nineteen, sixty seven in the middle of the summer of love, the Beatles performed. All you need is love on a TV. Show called one world. It was broadcast internationally via satellite the first time that had ever been done. At, least four hundred million viewers in twenty four countries viewed the two and a half hour program. Twenty two countries participated. Contributing content. Canada's offering was an interview with our old friend Marshall McLuhan. The Soviet Union in some of the Eastern European countries were going to participate, but they pulled out a week before to protest the West's response to the nineteen sixty seven seven days war between Israel and several Arab countries. So the kids in Moscow, Prague and Warsaw. Didn't get to see it. Didn't matter just a year leader summer of nineteen, sixty eight. The Beatles were famous behind the Iron Curtain like they were in the rest of the world. So, much so that Paul McCartney wrote back in the USSR as a sly wink, wink knowledge meant to those beatle fans in the former Soviet Union. By nineteen sixty-nine, there was no longer any doubt. Rock and roll was a worldwide phenomenon. Maybe they didn't come barging in the front door like they did in New York City, but the Beatles had invaded the communist world to. And they brought all those other rockers right in behind them. Now. Was Not easy being a rocker in Budapest or Warsaw or give. You couldn't take your rubles down to the local state owned store and buy the latest Beatles record. You had to go underground. And by underground, we don't mean the downtown Indie record store staffed by music snobs. Who Insult your taste while they take your money. We! Mean you had to go to the criminal underground the black market? We admire the gutsy ingenuity. These kids showed they risk being ostracized fire to kicked out of their school evicted from their homes, even thrown in prison. Just to get their hands on a copy of beggars, banquet or James Brown live at the Apollo. Rock behind the Iron Curtain will come up again and we're really glad to start the story ARC right here. It's a good one and is going to really important in a few years. We'll get there, but the big point. We want to make right here. In nineteen sixty nine for the first time we can look all around the world and find rock and roll. And not just in the English speaking countries. Talking! She's. Young! Bands from Europe on the North American charts like the great cut from that Dutch band, shocking blue with the singer who barely spoke English. She sang phonetically. Carlos Santana from. Mexico by way of Tijuana by way of the fillmore West in San, Francisco had his coming out party at Woodstock that summer. In, the Caribbean something good was simmering to a boil. A Spicy Gumbo of Delta Blues in New Orleans Jazz and West. African rhythms. It was being cooked up in a hell's kitchen. The grigny turbulent ghetto of Kingston Jamaica where politics frequently spilled over into violence and vice versa. Rigging is basically a seventy staying for most American music fans including us. Scott Rock steady and reggae were already bubbling long in Jamaica and had been for some years by sixty nine forward-looking musicians in fans in the. UK were already hip to reggae in some American. Composers like Paul Simon had picked up on it, too so this is just a dry today. Quick Introduction, the rise of REGGAE and world beat and their influence on mainstream rock. That's something we will dig into in future chapters. It's going to be either Ramon and get ready to lively up yourself. Once, again will get their point. We want to make rock is all around the world now and that tipping point if you will does, it's tipping in nineteen sixty nine. So are we surprised that? Perhaps the most memorable weekend in all of rock history takes place that summer. Back upstate New York we go. Time to go live. Team. Think that. I was going to wait a while before we about. Maybe, we'll talk about it house even. A free concert from now. Doesn't mean. that. We're going to go into music up here for three. What it means is that the people were packing this thing you. Get hurt. But would it be? Your welfare. Halloween. Music is dollar. Something to know about the woodstock film from nineteen seventy. It's all out of sequence. It's jumble. Superbly edited jumble the Film Won An Academy Award for best documentary, and it was also nominated for a best editing. A rare accomplishment for a documentary. It is nicely paced a great piece of film entertainment. And it is also wildly inaccurate. Richie havens goes I and Jimi Hendrix goes last, and that's about it. The rest of the sequencing is all over the place. Today, we provide and antithesis. To the best of our ability, using a bunch of sources were going to call off the woodstock roster from Saturday afternoon on through to Monday morning in chronological order. We skipped quill, and we skip country. Joe McDonald's impromptu sat on. Saturday afternoon we went straight to Santana for no good reason. We just wanted to play. That's scorching version of soul sacrifice. But from here on out, it's all in order, and it's all from the woodstock recordings. Some of the recordings are edited the most notable one. Is that epic? Jimi Hendrix. Star spangled banner. Slash Purple Haze Medley at the end. It turns out that splice job. Some of the woodstock recordings were Sweden. Over dubs. That's a real common practice with the quote. Unquote live albums by the. But as close as we can get. We're going to do it in order and play. What was played? Carlos Santana at that time. A young musical prodigy, barely out of his teens, was high as a kite when he took stage, but he led his band through a ferocious Saturday afternoon set. Hundreds of thousands got up off their asses, and on their feet, dancing and grooving. A rock and roll one zero one you get, there s moving in their hearts and minds will follow. The question then becomes. Where do they end up ladies and gentlemen? Please! Welcome with us. John Sebastian. Thank you. I don't know if you can. Really tell how amazing you look. You're truly amazing your whole city. and. Somehow. You something that an awful lot of us. Talked about eight and ten years ago. In living rooms. I have a song for you. In a hilarious two thousand fourteen post, the blogger IRA booker wrote John. Sebastian's performance at Woodstock may be the moment when America team maximum hippie dumb. For better or worse John provided sweet stone or confusion to occupy the attention of an equally baked audience that lasted about twenty minutes while the roads prepared the stage for the Blues Rock outfit. The Keith Hartley Band. They're short. Punchy set was followed by the incredible string band. Incredible didn't go over all that great. Not Their fault, they just didn't fit into Saturday's lineup of heavy rock outfits. They were squeezed into. Do a Saturday makeup. Sad after being stuck in traffic all day Friday, the crowd was massive now. Folks had been streaming all day by the time. Canned heat resumed bogey, and about seven thirty PM Woodstock nation was nearly half a million strong. Old. The heavy blues boogie continued with Mount. A new outfit led by singer Guitarist. Leslie West Gibson. Les Paul plugged into Marshall Stacks it worked then, and it still works today. So, then the grateful dead took the stage and a great moment ten PM. On Saturday night in front of a massive revved up crap. Hound. And proceeded to screw the entire Pooch. Their gear was so heavy it broke stage that meets set changes more hassle for the rest of the festival. They were high and goofy unfocused, and they sounded like that to now. This is coming from deadheads. We love these guys have, but what stock was not a great showing for the boys I? They broke the stage, and then they played way too long. They infuriated every act that came after them that night. Especially John Fogerty and the other members of credence. The momentum seemed lost. That's when creedence clearwater. Revival. Aw. From half past midnight straight through to the morning light late Saturday night early Sunday. Morning is where Woodstock. The musical event gets pretty incredible. Credence didn't end up in the woodstock film. They had plans for their own concert film and they didn't want any distraction from that, but there's footage and there's audio and diggers. Holy Shit. They were really annoyed by the long wait, so creedence went out there with a big chip on their collective shoulders. Know How you doing tonight. No breaks in the action not much in the way of stage patter. They stormed their way through eleven. High Energy songs in less than an hour. It rocked. It provoked. It had some edge to it straight ahead and potent. The credence set was a bracing tonic. A much needed antidote to the dead's meandering Hippie goofiness speaking of Engine Energy Genus Joplin was up next, her set was highly anticipated, but he ended up being a little bit of a letdown. How're your out I mean. Are you out there, are you? Are you okay? You're not. You're staying stoned on. You've got enough water and you got a place asleep and everything. Walk. Don't leave. You'll see your. Janice was. Smack. And she was working with the new band, the cosmic blues band and they were off a bit, not well rehearsed. So it wasn't the stopping holy. Shit Genus. We saw a monetary pop, but it was still pretty intense. When asked about it later Pete Townsend of the WHO said even Janice on an off night is pretty incredible. It set up the next two performances, which in are highly subjective, not even been humble opinion or the most inspired shows of the entire festival. Dan! Do. Hot Fun in the summertime nineteen sixty nine. The Year of sly the family stone at the beginning of the summer they'd put out stand a killer album. We've talked about him before, and they hit the road to support it. They'd been out all summer long. Knocking audience is dead across the country. The family was ready for Woodstock same with the WHO they'd been crisscrossing the country all summer to they had their own important new album out Tommy at sunrise. They played the thematic listening to you. Then they got called back for a pair of encores, summertime blues and my generation. Saturday night at spilled into Sunday morning Jefferson airplane played to a sleepy bedraggled breakfast club the morning maniacs. The bill. Did. Good Morning. I'm a farmer. I don't know what we have in. Mind is back in bed before one hundred thousand I don't know how to speak to. People at one time a lot along the crowd like this out. It's not to be staking. Anything but I think you'll. People have proven something to the world's going to be good food and we're going to get it not only. Battle Sullivan. County on New, York State. You're throwing something to the world, not just the hog farm, either this is the largest group of people ever assembled in one place. It's like the. In family pranksters and everybody else is volunteer putting their tied into the three catching fact, it's everybody world theme each other. We have had no idea. That, there would be this size group. I'm because of that. You had quite a few inconveniences as far as water and food, and so forth, your producers have done a mammoth job. To see that you're taking care of the. Banks. We must be in heaven then. What pop that? The important thing that you're proven to the world. Is that a half a million kids on I. Call Your Kids Because I. Have Children Older Than Your? Million young people can get together and have three days of fun and milling. And have nothing but fun and meals and I got buzzer part. Well. To. STAND UP! So. I will try to serve. The music resumed on Sunday afternoon Joe Cocker set with the aptly named grease. Band was fire. And then the rain came. To the towers playroom. Barry says let's stay hard to get rid of. GotTa blow through. Keep yourself comfortable. Towers. We're going to turn on the microphones per minute. It lasted about an hour and it was another hour before the music resumed a lot of people split on Sunday afternoon, but at least a quarter of a million hung on for that final night, country Joe and the fish after making several unscheduled appearances finally did their scheduled set for hours late then Alvin, Lee and years after brought the goods with a memorable set. This is a thing called ongoing home by. helicopter. In later years and Robbie Robertson and the rest of the guys in the band said they felt like they played well at Woodstock, but they were seeing which in between a couple of high energy acts. The Band said was only politely received a Little Anti Climactic considering they were one of the headlines going in. All right up next Johnny winner. ACAPA. Waco period. Treve! See. Kim Jong. Assume, the? joanie Johnny was followed by blood, sweat and tears. We love these guys. We think they're one of the great acts of the late sixty s slash early seventies. But like Greens, blood, sweat and tears had plans for their own film, and the cameras didn't even roll for most of their woodstock set. Too, bad. Now and last we've made it the closing hours of the festival. Where we go from the sublime to the ridiculous, and all the way back around again to the epic. To the definitional. Out. Scheduling to. A. I saw. A. saw. Your. Don't. The C. N. N. Y. except they didn't show why. The NY performance in the woodstock film is maybe the best moment of the whole movie. The cameras stays put showing Stephen. Stills in the foreground, leading David, crosby, and Graham Nash through a spare unadorned version of sweet. Judy Blue Eyes. In the film they split up the view, they zoom in and zoom out, but they don't change position. They keep the camera right there. The feel is quiet and still. It wasn't planned that way Neil Young. Be Neil. Young stubbornly insisted on not being filmed. You want to film. The other guys fine. Don't point that thing in me. So the whole time, the camera operator stayed put. They didn't Rome. They kept crosby stills and Nash in frame while keeping Neil young out. Even when deal wasn't on stage like during sweet, Judy Blue Eyes they just kept it right there. So by happy accident they came up with cinematography that perfectly served the song and outdoor performance at a massive festival. But. It feels close an intimate. Did. The crowd at woodstock experienced. See us in and y like that. Unlikely again, even as we try to break free from it and tell the story a bit differently, the fact is the woodstock movie shapes our perceptions while the sun came up the Paul. Butterfield Blues Band played the love March. Two. Four. Two. All out. If you wouldn't so time, we all get up and just march around his whole area. Happy Start. Yeah. The grand system with out to. Everybody. A good time, sir. I, say in March on the Law Indiana's. Interest. This. Hour. Oh yes. I'm the Duke of. Monday morning with Shauna. Put that in your coffee. Two things about these guys I there show was great. It was high energy hell. They manage that it was hilarious and kitschy and fun. The second was that Shawna only got to play because Jimi Hendrix stood up for them. Jimmy noticed them waiting patiently backstage for hours along with some of the guys from Paul Butterfield's ban. chipmunk and Michael Laying S Jim. If you wanted to go early on Sunday morning right after CS and why. They would bump the last two acts. Know what the play Jimmy said. Waiting all night. They deserve the chance. Was the only concert Jimmy ever played in the morning. Maybe thirty thousand remained to see. The Green Hills of Yankers farm were muddy, Brown strewn with detritus in debris. Air was a dirty tired exodus out of the bowl. You can leave if you want to. We're just jamming a, he said. You can leave. You can stay. The small crowd that stayed to the end. Jimmy backout for a rare encore, the final song of the festival. Was Hey Joe. were. Again. We're influenced by the movie so for us that Sublime Blues. Jam by Hendrix is the summing up the tire, dirty and beautiful eulogy of Woodstock. It took Max and a few kids who stuck around months to clean up the farm today. Honest to goodness, rock and roll archaeologists comb through those fields dig through layers and uncover artifacts. BETHEL center on the site of Yasser's farm is now an archaeological dig and a museum complete with a performing space, a visitor center and a gift shop. When we began whole joint about Woodstock we, said the mythic in the mundane, all mixed up the mud that weekend. Nothing along the way has changed our minds about that. Sly and the family stone in the WHO both gave us a look ahead at something that will largely define rock in the seventies, the modern arena show. McKee it right here for now. If we were out there today, pod fun in the summertime in upstate New York. If we were out there, digging in yonkers dirt like it's Pompeii or a Mayan pyramid. If we were bringing forth artifacts. What will we ask those artifacts? A We asked this place. We'd say show us what it was like. The the movie showed the power and glory on the stage. Listening to you I get the music. It also showed the crowd along with squalor and misery. That was only a few clicks away from what you've seen refugee camp. Right behind you. I see the millions. We asked them. How the Hell did you manage to keep it from going completely fucking sideways? It could have been really bad. That question. By. The way is a tough one, and we will ask it again with a slightly different emphasis in a little bit. I get opinions from you. Get the story. We gave you part of the answer. The Hog farm and Wavy gravy saved the day long live wavy gravy in American original. A love revolutionary. And there were musical acts that definitely stepped up in met the moment. and. Yes, underclass Newman. There was something in the air. A spirit of cooperation and grace. Mack Sennett. Peace and music and nothing but peace in music. That spirit was add Monterrey in sixty seven briefly in Haight Ashbury summer it flickered in different spots around the world and sixty and sixty nine and showed up at Woodstock. where it might have struggled. But it managed to stay lit for three days. Like a candle in the rain. We've talked at some length about the bills and how they kept changing the conversation about what was possible for a rock band in the Studio Revolver Sergeant Pepper Abbey Road. We've also talked about the commercial demands of music career, most of us, mere mortals have to walk a certain line between edgy creativity and putting out a product that might actually sell. From the beginning and all the way through to their break-up, the Beatles didn't just cross over that line they obliterated at. There was line for them. They just went ahead and excelled at both. Their Best Albums Revolver Pepper Abbey road cheerfully and confidently succeed as both art and commerce very few axe. Pull that off. All this is to set up. What was remarkable about the rolling stones? In the fall of sixty nine is the Beatles drifted towards disillusion. The stones snatched away the crown, and what did for them was their live performances especially in America. The Beatles redefined rock albums in the late sixties. As the decade closes out the rolling stones will. Redefine rock concerts. And for second generation rockers for the seventies and eighties, kids, the rock concert experience is what pulled us in. That was rock and roll. That was the rolling stones has contribution they redefined and reinvented the rock concert. Change the conversation about what was possible. This is David Way from his two thousand fourteen book Rockstar, the Beatles celebrity was almost from the start their subject as well as their object, and they approached it, and managed it with their war, holy unconsciousness they managed their music in the same way, and became concert dropouts by contrast, the stones were primal natural performers whose music seemed to thrive even to exist in contact with the audience early on the stones identified themselves in terms of the bills. They were the Anti Beatles. It wasn't really deliberate than they were actually on very friendly terms with the Beatles and we saw back in chapter twelve. The bills helped the stones get discovered and signed and provided them with one of their first hits. It just kind of worked out that way. It was good hype, no way to get noticed at the suggestion of their manager. Andrew Lou Gholam, the stones wore the black hat two years of lurid headlines as they fought their drug cases in London courtrooms only served to cement that image so being the bad boys was fine. It worked. It was even true to some extent, but the stones were still defining themselves in terms of another in sixty nine, the stones forged own identity and last they put out a great studio album at the end of the year. Let it bleed. As great as that album is. It was on stage where they earned the moniker. The world's greatest rock and roll band that year. It started in La. This. Failed. A. Play. Sir! Late summer of Nineteen sixty-nine newly, minted. Stones Tour Manager Sam Cutler not a short term lease on Stephen. Stills mentioned or Kanye. Mick and Keefe held court there along with MC Taylor. They wanted to keep an eye on the youngster and Keith new best Bessie Gram Parsons. In keeping with a practice, they'd established over the last couple of albums stones basic tracks for let it bleed at Olympic. Studios in London then Mick Keith and producer Jimmy Miller would add overdubbed and mixed down at a studio in Hollywood. Once let it bleed was finalized. The rolling stones started rehearsing for their first tour of America since early nineteen, sixty six. The October rehearsals mostly took place in the basement of stills as mansion, and they were bad like really really bad so bad that a lot of the staff and crew were freaking out. The stones got it together. Joe's barely in the last two sessions and Sam Cutler deemed the circus ready for the road. Such a privilege to listen to the stones. Getting that music together, it was rough, but it was ready. You Know Supreme Yvonne Newborn so. The music felt as if it might fall apart at any moment yet struggled for his way to a wonderful cohesion vitality. He has sins tons getting their music together was watching a baby being born. It was messy, but somehow it was miraculous of most importantly it Dave. Right around that time, Sam also realized to get these guys to bring their best. He needed to lay down a marker so at the warm up show at Colorado State University on November seventh, nineteen, sixty nine. Sam introduce them. thises. The back. Row. Sam trotted that one out back in July at the Hyde Park concert and mic was crazy about it. He felt that level of hype was a bit much. Any leads SAM. Know that. But SAM ignored. And use it again in Colorado. It became the standard intro for stones concerts from that day forward the world's greatest rock and roll band. Like, the Beatles, they benefitted tremendously from being in the right place at the right time. On their nineteen sixty-nine tour, the stones took full advantage of new developments in live sound stage, lighting, promotion, and ticket, sales, travel, and logistics and so on. It was only a month. Compared to the corporate sponsor, leviathan tours the stones and other top rock acts would embark on in the decades to come stone. sixty-nine was a thrown together seat of your pants operation. Kind of like when you compare woodstock to a modern festival, but it worked. In fact, it succeeded wildly our favorite, grumpy curmudgeon Robert Chris. CRISCO called the Stones Nineteen sixty-nine tour of America the first mythic rock tour. Other observant writers and critics have made similar declarations. Most down. philosophically financially. On nationally dissatisfied You know sexually satisfied. philosophically trying from Stephen Davis Book Gods almost, Dead Up to over twenty, seventh nineteen, sixty nine, the rolling stones held a press conference at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel to announce their tour schedule and to counter attacks in the press. Win, it was reported. The stones would take a million dollars from the tour. The influential San Francisco columnist Ralph J gleason scolded the band for high ticket prices and general arrogance. Recalling the Good Vibes Hyde Park Mick Jagger Perry by offering to play a free outdoor concert in the bay area after the tour. What's? Sort of flesh it. That's. A. For little. Home. A, there's a lot of natural beauty and California Yosemite in the High Sierra. Big Sur and the loss coast Joshua Tree Death Valley. We California. Natives are justifiably proud of our many wild beautiful places. altimonte pass. Is Not among these places. It's the path of highway. Five eighty, a noisy concrete ribbon through scrubby Brown hills, the five eighty connects the bay area with these Central Valley of California. The nearest town of any size is tracy. A bedroom community then barely existed in early December of nineteen sixty nine. Even if you've never set foot California, you probably seen images of the ultimate pass wind farm. It was built in the early nineteen eighties, and they've expanded a bunch since that. It really is the only noteworthy thing about ultimate. It's a good place to put some windmills. Throughout the year especially in the dark winter months. A hard cruel win! Blow steadily through the pass. We are film nerds as well as Music nerds here, rock and roll archaeology, so we're going to reference the one thousand nine hundred fifty Japanese film rash. Amman directed by the Great Akira Kurosawa. Rash Amman is commentary on how people perceive and remember things. In the movie, everyone sees the same event the violent death of a Samurai. And afterwards everyone recalls differently. And all of them are telling the truth. There truth? Because we don't see things the way they are. We see things the way we are. In this time in the winter of nineteen, sixty nine, no windmills and not very many people lived here either. But in the days, leading up to December six young people from near, and far are converging on this unremarkable patch of dirt as cold winds, whip through Ultima Pass. As night falls in the wind kicks up Oh. We have a story to tell that is best described. As an American, rush Amman. This is Stephan ponant. Kfi Am Radio in San Francisco while Rolling Stones Tour of the United States is over rounded up with a free concert at the outbound speedway for more than three hundred thousand people. Four berths for deaths. An awful lot of scuffles reported. We received word that someone was stabbed to death in front of the stage by a member of the hell's angels, but the think is confirmed on that. We were there. We didn't see it, but we did see a lot. We WanNa know now what USA. Our phones are open. We'd like to hear from you. What was the ultimate free concert like? and. and. Would suck had been the long deferred festival of life, So said not only time and Newsweek but world-weary friends who felt the New Society of warning half a million, strong, stoned and happy on the muddy farm north of New York City, and so when the rolling stones announced their own west coast free concert ultimate near San Francisco I had to go. That's the sixty historian Todd Gatlin in his book. Years of hope days of rage. Quoted Professor Gatlin a bunch of times now. Augusta's Housley Stanley the bear LSD. Cook extraordinaire, sound man for the grateful dead. The pair was there to was like a moonscape of rushed auto bodies was the actual arena which they had held all these demolition derbies. I thought. This is the worst possible place to hold something like this. And I realized that if he took asser this show. You're going to have a trip that he didn't really want. Introduced. been around for a long long. Jeez. Put Down with. By the. So yeah, we're film nerds to and as such our perceptions of Ultima to are largely shaped by film. That would be the nineteen seventy documentary in shelter, produced and directed by Albert and David Measles. The sake of clarity in this section will reference the Gimme shelter film as the maizels film more. The maizels documentary. Okay back to the story. Around noon as Santana opened the show, a rolling failings of hells, angels surged down the hill. The stage there choppers charged through the crowd. Is People madly scrambled to get out of the way? To of the bikes carried gram Parsons Bernie lead of the flame burrito brothers. Down at the bottom of the Bowl Bernie looked back at the whole. They just made in the crowd. He said to Graham. You know. We just pissed off three hundred thousand people right. Perspective is informed by our loves and by our hates. By our prejudices and by our decencies. Perspective can also be a simple function of where you happen to be standing when the ship goes down. Set N, setting as Tim Leary would say. That's what makes good trips good and what makes bad trips, really fucking bad. Woodstock had been moved several times before they settled on verdant peaceful hills of maxine Scher's dairy farm is a site. But they had about twenty days to get it ready. At, Demont! They barely had twenty hours. They built a stage out in the middle of nowhere. Hope for the best. Like any decent person would be. We are outraged by the thuggish behavior. The Hells Angels Day. But that didn't just come about. It didn't occur in a vacuum. The deadly lack of concern on the part of the ultimate team. You see it in the middle third of the measles film. The phone call lawyer Melvin Belli Office. The call is jaw dropping important concerns like security food water, sanitary facilities parking access to adjacent properties are. glibly brushed aside. Bullshit reigns. You can't help but think There is no way this is gonNA, work why the hell doesn't somebody just pull the plug and cancel it. Good question. Keep it in the back of your mind as we move through the story. There was no defined backstage area. The only thing separating the crowd from the performers was a single piece of twine, and even that flimsy imaginary barrier was gone by the time Jefferson airplane took the stage. This is Saul Austerlitz from his two thousand eighteen book, just a shot away four or five plainclothes. County sheriff stood around backstage their weapons in their holsters. After intervening in one of the early fights between the Hell's angels and fans did took note of how thoroughly outnumbered they were in their after seated the field to the angels. Working with anybody in the. GotTa Keep Your Body Jock. Each Other. Unless you intend love, people get weird, and you need people like the angels to keep people in line, but the angels also you don't bus people in the head. For Nothing. So both sides are. FUCKING OUT TEMPORARILY LIMP NOT KEEP fucking up. Money Balance of the Jefferson airplane got knocked unconscious by an angel. Mardi came to decided to go after the break. The banker they called animal and Mardi got knocked out again. But, here is what's really ominous about that Jefferson airplane clip from the maizels documentary. Grace Slick tries to settle the crowd. Her pitch to the audience is be cool, so you don't provoke the hells angels. Let's just stop bucking up. She actually both sides it. Oh! We don't want to be unfair to grace. She had to have been terrified. She's just doing her best in an impossible situation, but when she both sides it like that. She abdicates the Moral Authority. She gives away any pool or sway that the performers might have had on the angels. Just a few songs into the second set. We see the performers have given out. The COPS to threw their hands up and walked away after an hour so. Concert organizers were scared as well. Everybody's on their own. The only unity at Almonte was among the angels. Any kind of attack or perceived slight against anyone at the angels is an attack on all of them. Where we go one, we go all. If, you got to close to one of the angels or somehow pissed one of them off, they'd clock you with a motorcycle chain or sawed off pool cue. Every song a couple. More kids would go down hard and gang stalked. All through the day the hellish wheel kept turning. The one respect right came in the early afternoon during the flame breeder brother set. The BURRITOS Lisi Lobi country rock with Gram Parsons Easy Southern Charm Gun. People chill out. Sit Back, listen. But the Burrito said just slowed things down little. As soon as they were done, it was back to the mayhem. The casual brutality dish down by the angels sent new ways. Panic Ripley back crap. Is. Sound. Speech Zig! Old. Miss Pamela had seen enough. Teetering on my platforms, I defiantly stuck out. My thumb determined to escape the Borsch angels thugging around like Bossy Cops. I heard the stones had hired them for protection. Why wasn't this events supposed to have the spirit of Woodstock's peace in love vibe that called his from our good friend and podcasting comrade Misbelief de. Miss Pamela among other things, wrote a great memoir. Chronically those times called I'm with the ban by it and read it if you want to be cool. Around the same time, wavy gravy and the HOG farm crew decided they'd seen enough to. They started packing up. As we left Woodstock, we asked. How did they manage to keep it together? What kept the festival from turning into an utter disaster? Well wave did along with his crew. Of course, the hog farmers spread some social lubricant. If you will, they took care of people and encourage people to take care of each other. None of that to be founded Al to Mont just hells angels throwing seen in the gears, sending kids to the hospital. that. means. Law. We burden. At least eight hundred fifty people were hurt by the angels that day some of them very badly. That number is based on police reports local hospital admissions and eyewitness accounts. A lot of pain was dished out that day but the crowd was huge at least a quarter million, so most perceived violences distant uneasy, bad vibes. But even at a safe removed from angels, runamuck out in the crowd. It was bad trips, bond drugs, fights, and arguments, no bathrooms, no water, and a long long walk back to the car. Nothing was being dressed. Once again. Everybody was on their own. So the bad vibe, spread and spread across a couple hundred thousand people over and over, and now you got a lot a bad mojo going around. The stage was low. The Hill was steep. The music kept getting interrupted. The grateful dead canceled EPA last minute. Cold and pitch dark out at just five o'clock in the afternoon. As night fell a lot of people. At least half the crowd just said thought this like Miss Pamela did and left early. The rest decided to dig in. Get what they came for. You've put yourself through it. You packed into a car and drove. Hundreds of miles then hiked in for hours. Fuck it. Get what you came for the rolling. Stones Concert for free under the California Stars. Two hours after nightfall, the stones took the stage in a blast of harsh light. As the rolling stones played well that night despite everything started churning through the early part of the set, some of these diehard fans pissed off tired of watching. Their friends get hurt started challenging the hells, angels more directly. For the first time all day, the angels press back. Some of them took hits got knocked down. A bike caught on fire. In the maizels film in between songs you can hear crowd members, taunting and cursing them. The angels regrouped. And responded to this challenge to their supremacy with a whole new level of savagery. They just went after anybody dealing out an injury random. This is the part of the maizels film where the Stone Stop Playing, and you hear Mick Jagger Sounding Small and helpless, pleading with the crowd. Splitting you know those guys few. We're splitting imposed custody. Stop beating everybody up inside. I want them out of the way man. You. Out Your. Happiness. Now you can say anything whereas. Another scuffles did the angel right there with a knife. I roll it back in the seat against the girls crocheted dress. Gun He did. Jose just took. He showed it to me and The. Put them down the ground and start kicking. And he has. His back over Syria. Turkey Ivan. and. Everything in their power. Put Him in his Wurley burden. Eighteen years of age meredith hunter May. Black KID FROM OAKLAND WAS IT S Mon with his white girlfriend Patti. They came together to hear white guys from London play music drawn from the well of sorrow. That is the black American experience. He went by Murdoch A. Street name for a Wannabe Street Hustler. He was an okay kid, not exactly most likely to succeed, but there was no meanness or darkness in Murdoch. He had a criminal record, but it was small time stuff. Just one more lost lonely teenager. Murdoch was one of those die-hards out in the crowd. He'd stuck it out. Put up with it, and he wanted down front. He wanted to see the stones down there near the stage. You needed protection. That much was obvious. So he headed back to his car dot, the long barreled twenty two of the trunk. Murdoch's stuck it in his coat side and waited back into the crowd. Patty followed in his wake, trying to Deign to talk some sense into him. Down there in the hellish Maelstrom and swirl in front of that low postage stamp of a stage. Murdoch made a terrible deadly mistake. He was angry and scared and tweak gun meth so hard. He was grinding his teeth. and. He pulled a gun in a crowd. Not just any crowd, but a crowd of hells angels. A volatile crew under any circumstances who are now being pressed hard by the crowd, scolded and berated from the stage. And as a consequence or even more reactionary and violent than usual. It's about two seconds film. That two seconds was enough to get. Allen Pizarro the Hells Angels Stabbed Murdoch to death, acquitted of murder charges. The jury found it was in self defense. and was very arguably self-defense at least at first. With terrifying speed likely said less than two seconds Pizarro took Murdoch down. Then, with deliberate brutal efficiency. The rest of the angels proceeded to stop the poor kid finishing him off, but he was just piling on the knife. Wounds from the initial attack were more than enough to kill him. In his testimony, the physician who attended Murdoch put it this way. Even if the stabbing had occurred in an operating room with a staff staining by, they still wouldn't have been able to save him. Massaro and Murdoch never should have been there in the first place. A long chain of negligence and bad decisions got them to that point. Oh. There's plenty of blame to go around. Much of it has to fall on the. The concert, the loose collective of business hippies in the grateful dead's orbit, who set this thing up and hired the angels to serve a security? From the Rolling Stone magazine, article published January one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, ultimate was the product of diabolical egotism, hype, ineptitude, money, manipulation, and at base, a fundamental lack of concern for humanity. In our view, the stones held up their end. They didn't cut and run through tear in violence. They stepped up and did what they came to do. They played and they played well. It wasn't enough to save poor Murdoch but arguably kept things from being even worse. Yup. The last notes had barely faded when the Stones Sam Cutler. A few hangers on into a dangerously overloaded helicopter got the hell out of there. Back at Altima speedway, some of the angel started a bonfire and continued to party. Every, so often some clueless kid would wander up how the darkness and try to join the fun. And they would learn the hard way. The Bonfire Party was an angels only event. All throughout the night as they tore down, impact up, the roads and stagehands could hear, the cries pain and fear. Well, fired To stay. Were suitcase. In, my hey. and. As we've seen Miss Pamela bailed out early. She snagged a ride back to the city and made a beeline for their hotel I was seriously bomb out about my beer splattered vintage dress when I arrived at San Francisco Stately Fairmont hotel and called mic on the hotel phone. Please come right away. He said strain tremopoulos voice, giving me the room number. Something horrible has happened when she got to. The room mic was subdued in quiet on the verge of tears. It was clear to Miss Pamela that he was badly shook by the events of that long awful day and Al Demont. Sam Cutler had a brief tense exchange with Mick Jagger after some back and forth it was agreed that Sam would stay behind and try to deal with the aftermath of the stones. Themselves would get the hell out of dodge. Early the next day, the rolling stones flew back England. It would be nineteen seventy two before they came back to America to play again. Oh! Here's a tag out there. That gets used a lot. Ultimate marked the end of the sixties. Maybe so ourselves we tend to agree with Robert. Chris cows more nuanced view of it. altamont provided an extraordinarily complex visceral metaphor. The way things of the sixties ended. All the symbols are marshalled. Crowd turned out. Let's have a good time to help. Make counterculture history. Results of the counterculture in the former rock and roll turned back on itself. No one knew how to deal with the spectacle. From the moment it began contradicted every suction. We should have been based producing violence fraternity, selfishness, generosity, ugliness, instead of being a bad trip instead of. Off. So. What do we make of all this? What lessons if any? Can Be learned. It's hard to say would stock was also thrown together at the last minute, but it and just barely managed to work. We talked a little bit about why it was good. Luck as much as anything. There were hells angels would stock. They showed up on Friday included a ripple of concern when they did. They were absorbed by the mud by the crowd and pretty much, never heard from again. It's also worth pointing out the obvious here. Large gatherings are inherently dangerous. Earlier that very same year, a car went out of control at a drag race in Covington Georgia and killed eleven spectators five of them children. It was widely covered. But few, if any, proclaimed at the end of drag racing. We are quite certain. Our friends in the UK and Europe have some appalling stories to tell about violence and fatalities. Soccer matches over the years. But. Timing is everything. And ultimate was in December, so it's the last chapter in the story of rock music in that year of sixty nine. And as writers like Saul Austerlitz Robert Chris Gal and Joel Sylvan the and the rolling stone staff and others have pointed out. It was an outlier. It was an authentic hole. Free. Started with the Beatles, the rooftop and went from there with a few side trips to a splendid sunny day with the rolling stones in London's Hyde. Park. Men On the moon and the muddy marathon of Woodstock, these events and more importantly, the massive worldwide media coverage they received. These events seemed to communicate that maybe something else was possible. Maybe humanity didn't have to keep racing towards oblivion. Perhaps a better world was drawing near. But in dark December with just days left to go in the year. The tragedy ultimate snapped everyone back hard reality. Good intentions and Hippie idealism aren't enough. Someone has to plan and organize. Someone has to be responsible. Otherwise! People are gonNA. Get killed. So whiskey and you won't. Show in your. Greasy question is. craziest body I could. See. Heat is of more than passing interest to us. That, all of these events are highly mediated. Our perceptions of them are shaped, not experience, but by re-experience by recreation. We were fortunate enough in the making this long sprawling two part chapter to fine an interview. Some primary sources people who were actually there can mansfield of Apple Records Rolling Stones Tour Manager Sam Cutler Wavy Gravy, your mccallion in of Jefferson airplane, and of course, the lovely and various student observant Miss Pamela debar, but for the most part like everybody else. We fall back on the mediated reality. Books Internet archives and most of all TV and films the let it be film. The Woodstock documentary the maizels film Gimme shelter and other sources. You can find in the show notes. We said way back at the beginning in chapter. Two that rock and Roll N Television Group together. That they are intertwined, and it's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. Here at the end of nineteen, sixty nine, we are fifteen years down the road from Bill Haley in the movies and Elvis on television. In that time, the visual media film and Television have carried rock and roll all around the world and brought it back home again. Woodstock and ultimate are burned into memory in large part because they were widely covered in the media, and there were important impactful documentaries made about those events. In recent years since twenty ten new accounts have been published an air. We've taken those in two and we've had to rethink some things. There's more about all sources in the show notes. We rock and roll fans, not media and mass communication theorists, but along the way we have found the work of some of these to be really useful in understanding music, culture and technology. So we've made if you side trips along the way and met people like Marshall McLuhan, Andy Warhol and Akira Kurosawa and we've lost some of the ideas that they put out in the world. We'll restate the point. Kerr saw made so brilliantly in rash Amman. People see what they WANNA see people seek the account that reinforces their view. The story that props up their prejudices or the story that speaks to their decencies. For those of us, who look for Hope, the Woodstock myth codified in film shows us how shared hardship can inspire cooperation and provide breakfast in bed for four hundred thousand. altimonte is the dark reverse image of the woodstock experience showing us how shared hardship can inspire a cold shoulder, and take us with terrifying speed down the hill into a Maelstrom of violence and even deaf. Like Robert Chris, CAL said. These are visceral and powerful metaphors. Back, in earlier chapters, specifically chapter nine in Chapter Fifteen. We said that when it comes to discussing the nineteen sixties, conventional storytelling, his just not adequate to the task. This is especially true of nineteen, sixty nine with its mad kaleidoscopic rush of events. So much as we'd like to, we can't provide a moral to the story. We just can't tie neat narrative both around nineteen sixty nine. Deliver it to you. We can speak our own truth and encourage you to seek out yours. We can note with sadness. The opportunities that were missed. And with joy we can relate the achievements. Aren't take is that woodstock is the apotheosis. And that ultimate represents the abyss. And that nineteen sixty nine can be seen as an inflection point and ending and beginning a change of the guard. It's the end of the first half of the first half. Rock started as the music of the post-war baby-boom born in the American south in raised in the big cities of America it went over to England came back to America and then spread all around the world. That was the first half of the baby boom. It was epic. It was amazing. And now it's. Now the second half of the baby boom takes over. As nineteen sixty nine closes out while it may not be official yet. The Beatles are all but done. Dylan the WHO the stones see us, and why many of these sixties acts will go forward into the seventies? But within a few short years they're going to be seen mainly as elders, pioneers, important and influential revered even. But with their best work behind them. So maybe nineteen, sixty nine was the peak year, but there is still a long way to go and a whole lot to tell. And you know what. A lot of rockets. Stories argue that the seventies were really the peak era for rock music. and. We don't necessarily disagree. All kinds of new branches and offshoots in new genres will spring up all over the place. There's plenty to talk about. A new landscape. A lot of interesting new characters. Some of whom we've talked about in earlier chapters, just a little kind of a tease for you a lead in to what's next. What's next. Everything. The Rock landscape is vast now it takes in the whole world. We're on an expedition to as many of these new lands as we can get to. We're excited about the possibilities. But also feeling a little moored. Like the old ties had been cut. Feeling. Like a stranger in a strange land. Gone all in. Day. Done. I'm Christian Swain, and this has been rock and rocky. Elegy, Thanks as always for listening and we'll see next time. We'll see you in episode twenty. Keep up the Rockin. Older. Come out and saying. Rock and roll archaeology. It's written by Richard Evans and Christian Swain. Produced and hosted by Christians Lane. I'll sound design. An incidental music by Jerry Daniels said at busy signal studios find of our shows, notes and leaks at Pantheon PODCASTS DOT com. All songs can be software purchaser streaming wherever you get your great music. Please picked up. These amazing tracks contact us on social at Pantheon podcast on facebook and instagram. tweet US at Pantheon Ponds.

Woodstock Woodstock Beatles richie havens New York City Woodstock ventures Carlos Santana San Francisco Hog farm John Roberts BETHEL John Ben Morea Joe America Graham Nash United States Neil Young Woodstock Archives Mike Lang
Muses EP 103: Laurel Canyon

Rock N Roll Archaeology

53:31 min | 2 years ago

Muses EP 103: Laurel Canyon

"Tonight on a very special episode of rock and roll archaeology Ahmet Zappa does a promo. I'm feelin podcasts presents from Toronto Canada. News is and stuff with your hosts, John Kerry and link. The fountain network of. Loser. Culture. Technology. Rock n roll. So grab those dock stage passing. Let's get to the show. Great. Okay. Hello, everybody. And welcome to another episode. Yes of this podcast. But you're listening to. All about the muses. So how are you doing? I'm okay. April is starting off better than Martinez. I'll be completely honest March was very difficult for me. Yeah. For those listening who are in a cold climate to cold and grey climate. There's this little thing called seasonal affective disorder. Oh, yeah. There is sad. Actually, just watched the broad city episode. I don't know if you've seen it. But she gets a sad lamp, and she like keeps having to go to it to like reenergize, and then it starts to like not work, and she needs like more light more late. It was the most relatable episode. I've ever seen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's been it's been really difficult. But it's starting to get blue and sunny here not every day, unfortunately, but we've had a couple we can see that spring is coming just cluele slow. You wouldn't believe the amount of books and podcasts, I'm listening to to just change my mindset as well. So for the most part just having positively and like getting on the bus and looking the bus driver in the eye and be like, thank you or like walking down the street, and just, you know, sending blessings to everybody walking by me or just trying to like sprinkle magic dust on. I don't know anybody that's like working at a cafe or helping me out or anything. So I'm really trying to stay positive. But then like sometimes it just gets to a point where the gas tank just on empty, and there's nothing else left to do. What does that clay? Yeah. But we're we're slowly climbing out of it. Yeah. So we have a lot of really fun things to talk about one of them being that the newest member of the pantheon family. Yes. Guys. Miss P miss Pamela. Dip bar has a podcast. Yes. Miss pamelas pajama party. Yeah. What a great name and the cherry on top of all that is that she's on our network. We're keeping this whole thing in the family. She's got her first episode up her first guest is miss mercy. They got some great stories. She's a great. I guess I was laughing at loud on the bus listening to it. It's a great one. I can't wait to see who she puts on as guests on her show and what they get to talking about. Yeah. I mean, I there were some stories that I'd heard before. And then they were brand new stories. There's one point in the podcast when she says mercy that's private and then mercy's. Oh, sorry. Like needed never told anybody that. She's like. Well, I guess it's a matter fifty years ago. But like you you're learning new things. So it's really fantastic in that sense. So if you haven't checked it out ready, go check out. Pamelas pajama party. Also have some exciting news coming up for meet the music here. Yeah. Yeah. We are building a patriot. Yeah. So patriotic is a place that you can go. And if you loving what we're doing. And if you have been loving what we're doing and you want some more of it than you can go to our patriot. And you can get access to bonus episodes. There's going to be audio. There's going to be video we can send you stuff in the mail. We can Skype. We can do all these things, and it is going to be for whatever tier you decide to do. So it might be five dollars a month that might be graciously ten dollars a month or more. If you have more new are this like, you know, that you're abundant in you wanna give more than we'd love that. And remember that money is currency and currency is energy and anything that you put into us. It's going to come back to you tenfold. Exactly. I'm really excited for this. We've been working on some of the bonus material having so much. Fun doing it. That's certainly been a light in these dark ages of winter. So yeah, plaza gave us something a little bit new like a gave us a new take on what we have been doing. Because a lot of the times when we're presenting an episode to you we get right into it. We have a lot of stuff to cover. And so we're like, hey has going cool and we jump right in. Yeah. Whereas with these episodes, you get to learn more about us. Yeah. They're more fun laid back, but still very informative and interesting. Yeah, we good balance the ourselves little bit kind of relaxing and let loose and it's fun. Yeah. So I think you guys are really going to like that. It's not up yet. We will let you know when that happens. We wanna make sure that we're building it and that it's a quality thing, and it's ready to go. So we don't launch prematurely. And then you know, there are problems. So no for sure. Okay. So links does not know what I'm going to be presenting today. And I've kept it a secret just for funsies. So I'm gonna tell you why chose this topic. But I want to tell you the two topics that I didn't choose. Okay. So this episode was originally supposed to be about digit about dole Brigitte Bardot, and I even bought her book and everything, and I send links message, and we're going to do I'm going to we're going to do her. I'm going to do her. I'm going to present her episode in the future. But the reason why couldn't get to at this time around because she's kind of problematic. Yes. And we want to address her with. Thoughtfulness? Yeah. Essentially, that's it. Yeah. I wanna have all my bases covered. And if you know debate comes up about it afterwards, I wanna be fully and mentally prepared to deal with that needs to be a very well rounded episode, exactly. So and I haven't and I've been feeling the opposite of that. Like, I haven't been feeling well rounded for the last month I've been burning the candle at both at both wicks or both. However, you want to say it, and so I thought to myself. Okay. Well, why don't I just do something smaller keep it shorter? I was looking through myspace booklet spend the night together for some inspiration on all of the muses. And I was like, oh, well, you know, we haven't done Laurie lightning yet. And so I'm not doing her either. Because when okay. Yeah. Like, she's cool. I can't wait to present. Whoa. That's the thing. In like looking at me like we did that already. That's where my brain is right now. That's where my brain is right now, I wanna talk more about her. But I think it's maybe because like I want to interview her. Yes. And so before I even maybe went forwards and even start thinking like we've done that already. I was just like, I'm I'm not in the mindset to talk about thirteen year olds right now either. Like, I mentally can't handle this debate. Right. That's a heavier top. So let's shelve that. And so the reason why I'm presenting the topic that I am today is because it fills me with joy and it fills me with inspiration. And it's on my vision board, and it's not a person. But it's a place is laurel canyon. Yes. Yes today. I am presenting the story of laurel canyon. All right because it's a place that is amused. It's inspired many people has inspired many people. And so I have had this book laurel canyon the inside story of rock 'n Roll's, legendary neighborhood by Michael Walker for like ten years, and I've never read it. I have this book as well. And I read it like ten years ago. Yeah. So it's been a while. So we're gonna go through the story of laurel canyon, and my mostly just used this book on his Lee. And the thing is with like putting this episode off. I'm going to be completely honest with you guys again like you deserve it. We've been doing this for over a hundred episodes. I kept put I kept trying to start Jesuit. I couldn't do it a cab looking for other things I couldn't do it. So I honestly read this book and a couple of days. Yeah. It's a good one. And firing. I typed up the episode in another day. So here's the thing though. Is that I wanna be putting out quality episodes every time. I don't wanna make mistakes. I don't wanna get my facts wrong. However. And we know what happens when we rush. Right. We do we have to do corrections. We have to do these. So I just want to let everybody know that. I tried my best and I'm not a music historian. But I did read this book. I tried to get the facts right as much as possible. There's little things that you know, I got wrong. Go ahead. Let us know. Tweet us to us an Email, and I'll try my best to correct it. But essentially. Moving forwards. I'm going to be dedicating myself to this podcast. Totally a that's great. And you've dedicated yourself for one hundred associates. I mean, give yourself credit. Yeah. So I gave my resignation no longer going to be teaching. That's so excited. I'm finishing off three more months. It's going to be strong. I have a fantastic class and wonderful school. But it's not fair to have one foot in the classroom and one foot in podcasting. And so we're going to move forwards and a new adventure way. I'm not going to be sending the episode last minute to our sound engineer being leagues laureate. So sorry having such a hard time. You know, it's time guys. And maybe we'll talk more about that in like a patriot. Like, a more, you know, how it's been more personal thing. But let's get to the episode. Okay. All right. Let's go. So I've always wanted to go to laurel canyon. I've never been to California. I've never really been west you. You haven't either. No, not I- laurel Kenyans high on my list as well. Yeah. You know, we've talked about places that have been inspiring like Greenwich Village. But it was because we were talking about a certain person, and how that place influence them at the time, but never just the place in general. And so this place really like inspired a kind of movement movement as well. Yeah. One thing that you'll be interested to know is that Pamela, and Michael debar have hons of quotes in this book. So I'm wondering if they know the author if Mike Walker the debars him for sure, yeah. Are are buds. So yeah. This author's written a lot about popular culture. According to the about the author of the book, he still lives in laurel canyon. Nice. Yeah. One of the things that I found funny in this is an aside from the book is that one of my favorite current artists. Father John misty spent some time in laurel canyon. But he only ended up there because he thought he was going to panga canyon. So he has a song called. I went to the store one day, which is written about how he met Emma, his wife, and so he was buying coffee and cigarettes, firewood and bad wine when he met the love of his life is a beautiful. So I really like how it kept on inspiring as as, you know, not just a sick thing. Yeah. For sure fun. Fact, I found from an article in the citizen is that Jennifer Aniston used to work at the canyon store. Oh, yeah. I actually was thinking about doing. Just like the laurel canyon store as the music solve and like that's stupid. It was going to the whole the whole place where my mind was so David it's cough of the New York Times. Book review calls his book, a winding inviting portrait of bohemian quarter that played a prominent role in the foundation of rock music. Nice. It's like are women. No, absolutely. They played prominent role in the foundation of rock music. Absolutely. Yeah. The books fairly linear. So we kind of start off in nineteen sixty eight and to set the scene laurel canyon described as the slightly seedy camp lake neighborhood of serpentine one lane roads. Precipitous hills fragrant eucalyptus trees and softly crumbling crumbling. Bungalows we have lookout mountain in the heart of laurel canyon a house owned by Joni Mitchell where Crosby Stills Nash, I hang together a mile away at that time was cast Elliott better known as mama Cass of the mommas and. Apas not too far from one another. Yes. So as I mentioned, Josh Tillman father, John misty was certainly not the first one to write about this magical place. We also know that Graham Nash wrote our house about living in Jones cottage with her and Joanie wrote ladies of the canyon about this strange bohemian Netherland. Yes, it was a place where the right musicians. The right artists gathered at the right moment in music history. And some of these musicians were transplants Joni Mitchell's Canadian, right, and then other people would come to stop by Mickey Dolan's lived there of the monkeys the Beatles would stop by. We have that fabulous story about Marianne faithfull and Mick Jagger stopping by the Apas. So lot of people have stopped by hung out there over the years musicians who have lived there include Frank Zappa. And we talk about that a lot in a few episodes. Specifically, the Pauline butcher bird one because she was a secretary who lived there, but Jackson Browne Chris Hillman. Roger McGlynn Glenn fry Don Henley, Mickey Dolan's list goes on Jim Morrison. Well, this book says never said that he actually lived there. But maybe. Yeah. Okay. Because Miss B has great story about wandering in the canyon. Yeah. We across was that his home though, or was just like maybe it was pamelas made day bar. Yeah. Walker says the musicians flocking to the canyon at night, caterwauling coyotes and hooting AL's made you marvel that you were only five minutes from the noise and the neon of the sunset strip. Jackson Browne said that it was like a tribal life living there. It's exciting. Imagine being there in the sixties. Well, that's what I did. When I read this book, you know, I just really tried to picture myself there. Graham Nash felt as if he had reached nirvana he was in love with Joni Mitchell had this budding relationship with David and Stephen and they were living and breathing music. So yeah, like what time? It definitely attracted a certain kind of people and back, then it's my understanding that it had a reasonable rent prices every per back in the day at a reasonable price. With happening. So there is an incredible swath of popular culture, which is created in a very short time. And I really liked this, quote, he said that they're Sarran dippy was spun into gold. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a place a time when a handful of history's most willful and self absorbed. Young adults made such beautiful music together. In nineteen sixty four. So I guess I'm going back a little bit. Chris Hillman rented a house on Kirkwood drive. He would have no idea at the time. What an impact his music or his band would have on rock and roll history. And so the folk stars of the early sixties would become the new Rockstars, Mr. tambourine man was a hit that maybe got everything kinda rolling up on that mountain. Some might say, and then there would be that LA sound perfected by Crosby Stills. Nash eagles that would come later Jackson Browne, Linda Ronstadt, and then they would dominate for the next decade. But Walker the author says that it all started in nineteen sixty five with the birds. So the book provides a great great back story. So for example, where Chris Hillman grew up and how he got there. And so because we're going to do the canyon like as an overall muse we're not going to go into quite specific details of every individual artist. But if you did want to know that and you wanted to get into the details of things go ahead and pick up the book I recommend. It was a good book was a great read. So Hellman was inspired by the Beatles. And this was at a time when the music industry was run by guys who were music guys, right? There is no corporate monsters. Yeah. Eating everything up. So it was an innocent time. Walker says it was the mecca. So it was in Los Angeles in the mid nineteen sixties that laurel canyon by unconscious lottery of the hip became the place where every heads up young musician just knew he had to live. Or or she we had some ladies. It was perfect for the musicians who wanted to live away for all from all of the hustle and bustle, but still be with their kind the like minded people. The rent was cheap yet helman's view stretch from downtown Los Angeles all the way to the Pacific. Wow. You picture that? Wow. Kim Fowley and early L A rock producer notch per Noor said everyone else in the folk rock community decided they move up there too because you could smoke dope and get laid and be an asshole with your Porsche, convertible, convertible out of the prying eyes of the man. All right, Kim. Yeah. John Phillips of the mamas. And Papas was the one to pen the lyric young girls are coming to the canyon. And boy did they so Pamela makes an appearance in the book within eleven pages. She's she's begun being quoted page eleven honestly, this is maybe where I read her name for the first time. Now that I think about it because I bought this book when I was in like early university before I had known about her. It's possible that I saw her name for the first time in this book. That's where that that just came back to me, and she's described as a seventeen year old proto groupie have we ever discussed that word before. No. I don't think we've ever heard it or set it before. No, proto groupie. She was the she was the group the first making model. Yeah. So yeah, that's new word. We haven't discussed which is kind of fun. So she would hedge hike to laurel canyon from Rosetta. And this we've told and she's told it it's an her book, but she used to call it God's golden backyard. And like you said excellent stories about Jim Morrison the back bend in the living room being governess to the kids and she would just find the addresses of Rockstars. And just go there this show up emotional roles where you could just do that. And be welcomed. Yeah. No. That's the thing ever almost welcoming back then too. Yeah. Michael do bar called it the yellow brick motherfucking road to Oz. Swear, he's such a word Smith. Yeah. And a lot of these artists ended up getting very famous and making a lot of money. It's interesting how in almost every kind of John Rao or decade there is that place. You know? In New York, like the punk movement has CBGB's Mexicans a city or you can go to Seattle for the grunge movement. You know, it's interesting. Yeah. And then this is like, well, we can say will this had the whiskey ago and like the rainbow, but it's I think what's really special is that it's like it's a neighborhood. Yeah. Homes houses. So I'm gonna read you little passage laurel canyon. Meanwhile, still in its idyllic phase as for the moment, the nascent peace and love aesthetic obscured. The mercantile distractions beginning to visit more and more of its inhabitants, the canyons rugged granite, walls and cool quiet night air sweetened with jasmine and acacia blossoms said that right only five minutes from the mammon of sunset strip provided a reassuring physical and psychological barrier for musicians steeped in the tally and eras e gala -tarian ISM of folk music and lately the back to the land ethos of the hip. 'these Hillman has an double memory of coming off the road in the winter most likely after the nineteen sixty six tour and supportive, turn turn turn and RIA climbing himself to the canyons rhythms. It was like January February and had just rained in LA. He recalls the cab stopped, and there was a eucalyptus tree down across the road. I literally had to climb over the tree with my bag to get down to the house. Wow. Yeah. So while it's beautiful idea. Like all these things there's a lot of fires in laurel canyons history as well. And hillman's house was one of the houses that burned down. And he goes into interesting detail, which is for music buffs about specific dates and about Hillman specifically like when he joined gram Parsons, the fine rito brothers. And if there's any young people listening who are like who are the flying burrito brothers. You should check them out truck of you should like go to your art school and be like, hey, guys wanna hear something cool. And then you'll be the coolest. So how'd y'all can't get his name? Well in nineteen ten in engineering speculator named Charles Spencer man, sold house lots half way at the canyon the steeply slopes. Land was thick and with shopper, all sycamore and California bay laurel adjustment. Like flour mix sense. Yeah. I love the name laurel. I think it's like a beautiful name except one time. I had this boy friend. And he started hanging around beautiful girl named Laura and I was like I think you like her and he was like, I don't like her. She's just my friend. And I was like, but I think you like her it was like, I don't like her. She's just my friend. Did he like her? We broke up. And then they started dating a week later. He liked her. He liked her. Of course, he would. She was beautiful and laurel in nineteen sixty eight the twenty eight year old Frank Zappa paid seven hundred dollars a month to live in a log cabin with a bowling alley underneath how much are you seven hundred dollars a month to live in that big log cabin. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. We'll wait till you. Remember, what Gail says about it? We know people would crash there. They would play their Walker says, but in that brief moment the log cabin as it was known to every freak from Sherman oaks to Hollywood rages a rock and roll salon and denies and playground. Where groupies were gentrified into recording artists and talents. Is imposing Mick Jagger, and Jeff Beck, and as whimsical as Alice Cooper were stabled jam session fed and full lated while the undisputed master of the house reigned as freak daddy of the whole show. Yeah. It's hard to guess his tone because artists is in quotes. And then just being like, you know, groupies being gentrified fed inflated. That's interesting for share. It sounds like fun house to be in. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. So it was huge cavernous. There are no locks on the door. Gail Zappa describes it as having the oldest eucalyptus tree in southern California. That overshadowed the property and also that it was insanity. Yeah. For sure there was never any parking. So people parked all the way up the canyons. But the cops didn't really seem to bother them there at that time anyways. There are a few pages of description of the GTO's and veto remember him. Yes. Also known as captain fuck and a lot of the same things that you can find miss piece book. There's a lot of overlap. Okay. Side note, there's a new book out that haven't read. But I've heard that it's almost exactly like miss piece book, but it's like fiction, and then there's reviews about it being late daisy. Yeah. And somebody picked it up for like a movie. Oh, yeah. But it's about like a female singer. I think okay. The details were technically musicians as well. Yeah. Oh, hell. Yeah. They were if you listen to miss B's first podcast. They play a lot of the GTO's music, but won't read the holy man. We should read it, and we should at you on it. We should and but it's being hailed as like this like new in like innovative and all these things and Pamela is just like hollow while she's still inspiring people. She's the greatest muse right Kalua. Where was I? Okay. So. Pamela, describes the kind of people that were hanging out there at the dime and talking about the freaks, and you know, that's like a good word positive. It was positive thing. Just groupie was a positive thing. So a freak with someone who put a lot of care and intention into their appearance. We need to do a photo shoot. Like, you said freak photo shoot photo shoot. Yeah. You know, lace and hair hair in clown makeup. Before the GTO's had that name. Do you? Remember what they were called? I don't the laurel canyon ballet company. Oh, yeah. That's right. They would wear diapers bids. Dress up like trees, and then you know, Frank them together. And he was like get you organized. Yeah. Let's make some music. And like, I said if you have never checked the music, do it. It's amazing. If they were playing music in two thousand nineteen people's heads would be exploding in a good way. So let's go back to Gail Zappa. She says laurel canyon has historically attracted musicians and people very highly involved in the arts. Yeah. For sure thinking we should stay there in laurel canyon. Yeah. And sorry was like I wonder if they have Airbnb, and they went I hope they don't have Airbnb must. They do. I found a place for ninety six dollars a night Canadian. Ooh. Yeah. All right. Yeah. We'll go apparently once Frank Zappa left his place air burden of the animals lived there. But the grounds ended up becoming seedier the drugs got harder. Things got louder and darker before the house eventually burned down nine hundred eighty one on Halloween night. Wow. Pamela, talks about how sad it was to lose that place and how she can still picture Frank up there. His striped shirt and flowered bell-bottoms with cigarette in his mouth. How fun would it have been to like got to hang out with Frank Zappa, though? Only in my dreams at this point. You know, apparently you couldn't time. Yeah. The subconscious mind doesn't know the difference between. Reality. Yeah. So I think if you just patriots it yourself there, then you're there. So the author gets into the culture of the nineteen sixties going back to like the modern revolt of the moderns revolt of the twenties comparing them both as rejections of Victorian past saying that the sixties where a slap in the face awakening, the slumbers of the fifties. And of course, rock music was the glue that bound this generation together again, like the Connectik circus in Chicago, the Fillmore New York in San Francisco and the whiskey gogo in LA, the musicians of this generation knew that they were in the right place at the right time. They were this book is really great for going on about how various members of various bands met, for example, the mamas and Papas like if you don't know how they got together. This book explains it, but since again, sober all conversation. We won't go into the Pacific details. But let's talk a little bit about mom casts. Let's. So her house was a neutral place which. You know in a place that many of the men like their egos were just kind of getting larger and larger and they were trying to sleep with women who were there whether they were fans or musician's themselves or like, Michelle Phillips or groupies. But because this is what he says anyways. Because mama Cass was like. A motherly figure the place was neutral ground. Okay. Interesting. So it wasn't a crash pad. Yeah. People couldn't just show up unannounced, but she always had food in the fridge and clay in case anybody wanted to drop in and people like David Crosby often did so she was respected as an artist and a singer. But also bringing people together she was one of those people who knew who needed to be introduced to whom and who would good sound amazing singing with amazing yet. There were of course, photographers at hung around. For example, Henry Dilts who did a lot of Eric burdens album covers so many of the count- encounters where serendipitous, but I'll tell you. But particularly star studded barbecue that mom cast had for air Clapton. She invited. David Crosby who invited Joni Mitchell and make Dolan's does of this. Where did we see this? Because this is exactly what I was going to say, I've definitely seen these photos. Okay. So I was going to mention that not only we seen photos. We've seen Mickey Dolan's is videotapes not tapes. But like he filmed some things, but the thing is is like in the background. There's like Joni Mitchell, and Eric Clapton and he's off to the side, filming flowers. Any and then leaders. You know, what I might even a hundred percent sure if it was him or if that was his Jewish in because we take in so much content. Honestly, it's hard to remember exactly what Jack. But I seem to recall like somebody had a video camera didn't think to capture the tingles jer. But it's like, oh, these flowers are so nice. But that was them just being in the moment to probably high and also. Hi, yes. Yes. So the next thing that I'm going to read is just a little bit about the passing of. Mum candlemas. Yeah. Her voice was so incredible. Yeah. Her death was devastating to those. She had nurtured in the LA rock scene in a canyon filled with footloose, emotionally dysfunctional young men and women she had fulfilled. Wittingly or not the role of indulgent matriarch, albeit a hip and acid tested one. Laurel canyon says burden was a place in the middle of this big city that people escaped to many of these people didn't really have families scenes of their own. They'd never had the experience of a family. I think people found in those early days the family that always wanted. Now, the bosomy mother who tended to them all wiscon-. Yeah. And then Nash says it's very interesting that she really didn't take care of her own relationships with the same kind of care. She took care of other people's relationships whenever things were not going, right? Or when they were we'd go over to cast his house. I was just drawn to this woman. She was a magnificent creature. Oh. Cast. Yeah. So Graham Nash says that it was because of her then he met his wife, and you know, how does kids. Wow, by nineteen sixty eight is becoming harder to embrace the sex love drugs and rock and roll lifestyle because of everything that was going on in the world. Yeah. Warned Vietnam assassination, Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King junior and like full-on scale like riots things were starting to get darker. But I wanna remember Hillary canyon was and so we're just going to end the episode here the end and just getting. Will go on even though. So at this time laurel canyon seemed like it was a retreat. It was physical and spiritual place from the increasingly troublesome world LA was a hopeful place at the time celebrities were walking around everywhere. It seemed tain -able people could get a record deal. Even if it was only for one album, and it seemed doable. Yeah. So marijuana was really popular. And then LSD became really popular. People would take it make music go down to the store run into someone smoke a joint go to a club. The just followed their nose so to speak. Depending on who you ask. There are people in the book who called the artist's elitists saying that they were there were clicks. And that among all of the eucalyptus, you just had borne people with egos. They're. But on the other hand, you know, you had the bunk keys hanging out with turtles hanging out with the doors, and that's pretty cool. Doing here. A little bit about the day in the life or please a day in the life in laurel canyon, right? As these discomfiting social agendas, evolved. The canyon still offered the compelling daily pleasures of leafy surroundings unstructured lives and the new present fog of marijuana. Everybody would be in the living room with the stereo turned up full blast and wind bottle candle burning over the spool coffee table every now, and then someone would try to get the candle to drip, where it needed more wax. We'd pass around the joint someone would say. Oh, or somebody was it. They were hungry and we drive downtown where they made bagels, and you could go at five in the morning and get them. Hot Fowley sneers at the hindsight of beautiful sunsets. Lovely mornings with the secular smell of jasmine the meadows golden dreams, never ending. It's funny because I always picture Kim Fowley as like crazy rock and roll, dude. Like cr- help create the runaways. I don't picture him as this like lure canyon beer, you know, because he had many different phases in his life as well. Yeah. If we want it, and if you wanna think like, okay, what was the Royal Canin like before everybody moved in. Well, there is a couple of people in the book who talk about having grown up around laurel canyon and that the free loving unconventional lifestyles like weren't invented by these musicians. It was so secluded in full of nature and caves that you could just walk around naked. If you wanted to so. These days sorta found this place that was already special they make it special. Yeah. In the sense of like. It was always this Hedin. And then, of course, with every Eden, you know, changes so seventy spring also grew up in this area, and by h thirteen it was just another day to see Janice Joplin or start driving acid and she actually worked in the music industry, including electric goods and said this in nineteen seventy you could still hanging out at the canyon store. Sit on the wall smoke cigarettes and talk. There was always a Qatar. There was always an all night jam. Take me back. The author even talks to a young Rhody who at the time like just showed up and laurel canyon one day and was totally invited in the young Rhody says that one night he was outside the whiskey and a young woman appeared out of the strips nightly carnival. She just took my breath away. She was the most beautiful girl you would ever seen in your life flowers in her hair, gorgeous and sweet. He was Pamela. So there's a picture of the sky in the book, and he's also super cute looking and the GTO's ends up taking him in and hung out with him. And he was just like a drifter who found himself in the right place. And I like the idea of thinking about him as a Rhody because you tend to think about like Roti is like as like older. Dude. I'm so tired. Fielding soon when he stayed is. But they always have a heart of gold and knee who. Yeah, he says the trees would hang tough so tired. You could tell. Qaiser? He says the way the trees hang down with their big long leaves. It would be hazy smoggy with the golden light coming through the branches that hovered over the whole thing. It was just as magic as could be. I swear I saw fairies flying around laurel canyon because everybody had wings. Oh, so Walker toxic book the ever Lucien of the hippie manager to actual business people coming in and changing the music industry. So again, if you wanna more in-depth understanding of how music industry changed, you know, the record industry all of that. It's in the book, he has specific names, he has specific dates who's interesting had to leave it out as we know Graham Nash Joni Mitchell, Mitchell how to relationship so there's that romantic side of making us together being in laurel canyon together and just the camaraderie, the camaraderie of everyone else going up and around the canyon and just playing each other new music. Joni Mitchell has said ask anybody in LA. You know, where the craziest people are. And they'll say laurel canyon, and where's the craziest street lookout mountain? So there we were Elliott myself in a whole lot of us strung all the way through the canyon. The eagles came in later, and it was quite a neighborhood. Yeah. It was have you ever wonder what Joni Mitchell's house might have been like, absolutely? Well, I can tell you, please. Maybe it's a little bit different than what you would imagine. Maybe xactly what you imagine. But anyways, here's Mitchell's house was set back from the street against the hillside with the smaller cottage in front the exterior was covered with cedar shakes painted pale. Green the interior sported tongue in groove. Knotty pine ceilings and floors, a reporter from the New York Times visiting in nineteen sixty-nine described it as lovingly cluttered with two cats soon to be immortalized in Nashes our house, a Steph elk's, head stained glass windows. A grandfather clock given to Mitchell by Leonard Cohen, a king's head with a jeweled crown sticking out from the brick fireplace. Votive candles blooming. Zali is a Turkey made of pine cones dried flowers old dogs Victorian, shadow boxes, and an ornamental plate from Saskatoon Saskatchewan. Yeah. A reporter from Rolling Stone visiting the same year painted a scene of counter, cultural, domestic bliss Nash perched on an English church chair in the living room while Mitchell busied herself in the kitchen making crust for a rhubarb pie yet for two intense personalities on the verge of literally fame and fortune living in what was for all the Hanson hippie accoutrements a smallish gussied up hunting shack, the atmosphere was increasingly cost her phobic. Yeah. The Nash kinda goes on being like we shared the piano. Like when was it my turn than it was her turn? And yeah, it's lovely right. And so at this point things are getting like a little bit darker, and this was immortalized in Jodi mitchum song ladies of the canyon because she's getting richer Reich. Kind of everybody is of course, now me I play for fortunes and those velvet curtain calls. I've got a black limousine and two gentlemen, escorting me to the halls and play if you have the money, or if your friend to me, but the one man band by the quick lunch stand. He was playing real good for free. Interesting. Yeah. Point in the book the author outs into Charles Manson crew. So he provides the brief brief biography as we know we have the Tarantino movie coming out, which I'm really excited about and I won't go into the details. But just you know, this what did they have to do at laurel Kenyan they I forget the name of the canyon mighty start with a b Kenyon or something. But the family was. I guess committed the Libyan Tate Murray not too far from this. Okay. Plus a lot of them had had run ins with him. Yeah. Or like member, for example. Had an encounter like like a tiny little romantic count encounter with one of the boys in the family. So they were kind of around, and you know, this was while people left their doors open. Everyone was invited to parties people could just drop in. And then, you know, this guy who couldn't break into the music industry char- who still had followers took people to really dark and terrible place. Yeah, I guess it doesn't necessarily have to take place in laurel canyon to incite fear and all homes in LA at that point. Yeah. Areas like that. Yeah. Once Manson was charged paranoia increased and like a lurking dread appeared. So also like the darker times came like there was all to Mont cocaine started getting big eager growing testosterone was raging. Everybody wanted something, and it was Pamela is quoted as saying cocaine ruined. Everything. Laurel canyon never really recovered from it interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Different drugs. Incite different emotions in people. Yeah. And because laurel canyon was built on social relationships. What happens when people do cocaine does that really do much for social relationship, NAT really Michael debars was saying that at one point the drug dealers. Laurel canyon had valet parking have you ever seen the movie wonderland about? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good movie. John home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Val Kilmer. Plays him. Excellent soundtrack. It is. Jackson Browne actually, performed a different version of cocaine that went like this look at me now, sharp attack except for few billion, brain cells wouldn't mind having back. There was damage to the body damage to the soul damage to the quality of rock and roll cocaine. More Ghana Welsh say the right makes an appearance in this book. I don't know anything about her. Oh, I have her book. Okay. Do episodes. Well, one hundred percent I'm like do an episode, but it was fun to learn a little bit about her. And what I did learn about her the author describes her as white stunningly attractive over privileged and under supervised. When she got on the scene, even though she had looked up to the GTO's. And they were did you choose her inspirations? She considered them old and has-beens. So she was like seventeen she was sort of part of sable and lorries group. Yes. Yeah. So she was like seventeen Pamela was like in her twenties approximately I'm saying, and then she was talking about Laurien sable showing up who were even younger, right? And so funny enough because I was like, oh, I don't want to get into it. But then I'm reading this. And she's describing things in a really interesting way. She talks about the competitiveness, and that I contact photo of sable on the left Laurie on the right? Robert plant kind of middle. More gone. It had just taken a puff of her cigarette. And apparently photographer had gotten kicked out for taking that picture. Oh, really? Yeah. And then she was surprised to see like years later on somebody's living room wall. Wow. Yeah. So that photo was never supposed to be taken. And apparently Laurien sable jumped in at the last minute. Interesting. That's pretty funny. And they were saying like, oh, we'll rob Robert plant is looking at happy in it because his wife saw that photo. Yeah. Yeah. So that's pretty funny. So I'm going to read you a little bit just about the groupie path. But she had a real like a lot of really awesome and interesting things to say, yeah, she is a book cold Hollywood stories. I think we'll just based on these like couple of chapters. I want to know more. So she says that was the place our appetite Scott wetted, I think three dog night was one of the first bands we ever came in contact with the teenage fair and one of them went off with my girlfriend. So it was a place where young girls could get their look at Rockstars. And Rockstars could get their look at young girls that was my initiation into the potential for being a groupie that it was a viable path. Three dog night. Must have had a lot of groupies because my dad has told me a story about a friend of his back, then who was a huge three dog night thin and she had a goal of sleeping with the whole band. And should. Oh, wow. Cool. I'm gonna talk a little bit about. More about the groupie culture to and about the younger generation that was coming in. And this is the author writing. These new groupies as often as not barely out of outta leci- were aware of their complicity in the contract. And at least at first welcomed it. We loved the decadence says Moore Ghana Morgan a-, more Ghana. It was kind of economy because we knew in some ways we were very innocent. And that's where the whole sex thing came in being very sexual and willing to experiment sexually. There was a power in being able to provide fulfillment to fantasies of these men in power that were older than me. Sex was used as a power play and the more you had the more. You got. Interesting. Yeah. Definitely. We'll check her out somewhere and Michael Barr says at this is what America Pitta sought a pit him is to him. She also talks about how Led Zeppelin was attracted how attract how Led Zeppelin attracted the women in droves. And even the waitresses would try to get that. Of course, like they was spilled drinks on the other girl. She would get them found st- and more Gana said it was cut the wrote. She says it was territorial. These guys were big prizes. Yeah. So let's move on a little bit. Just like let's kinda start wrapping this up into the seventies early seventies. The glam seen New York musicians got laurel canyon drug dealers moving in post Manson pre-punk, but the musicians from the cannon were still doing amazing nineteen seventy four Johnny Mitchell had one of her biggest hits with Gordon. Spark Linda, Ronstadt had heart like a wheel and seventy four and Jackson Browne had the pretender in seventy six I guess, you can only really have that come rotary when you're not as big, you know, when you're not altering at the same time, and you know. You know, when you're younger, and you don't have families and everything you know, that was a special moment they that was their youth. That was you know, as they were building up something it nothing can last forever. Right. You got that? Right. So the music industry continued to change continued to change quickly, the peaceful, easy feelings of the eagles. I records group aggressively darker so people either pull themselves out of the CD's or moved in deeper, and like you said it's impossible to stay like that forever. People need to move on like Joni Mitchell could not keep living in a tiny cabin. And then as we know, you know, in the early eighties new generation of post punk Elliott bands began frequenting the sunset strip the whiskey, and I'm pretty sure Knicks lived in the canyon for awhile Gunson roses claimed rainbow. Yeah. But Walker says laurel canyon lives on and that to this day. It hasn't changed much it. Neither overindulge is. It's past nor calls much attention to its present. It simply is and we will end on a quote by Michael Michael Barr. Laurel canyon is a consciousness rather than a physical place like the Chateau more Mont or Karna. Street it transcends geographics. That's beautiful. Well, let's go there. Okay. Well, thank you for that. Those good no problem. It was it was fun to read. I just cannot wait for that sunshine. And so that was a big reason to I just like just tell just tell me about the lifts again. Yeah. When you read books that only the trees. Yeah. It's just so beautiful. It takes you there in you took me there. So thank you. No problem. And so hopefully that inspired a few people, you know. And I just I love you. I love you. I love you and love all of our listeners. And I think it's time to just go sit in a nice Epsom salt bath and stay tuned because we got some really exciting things coming. So we really do thanks for sticking with those things sticking with us through the good times and the bad. Now, what has it been bad? You know, how it is guys? It's life. It's life. It's a life. All right. Thanks for listening. See you next time. News. Toughest produced. Hi, sean. Tell them and being solar. Find all of our shows notes social N links at WWW dot pound field podcasts dot com or wherever you listen to great podcasts. All songs have you found for purchase on itunes Spotify or Google play. Please purchase. Great an important trucks, thunders on Facebook at the our in our AP, we are on Instagram at our our archaeology tweeted. On and off or he'll.

laurel canyons laurel canyon Michael Walker Joni Mitchell Pamela Los Angeles Frank Zappa Graham Nash California Jackson Browne Chris Hillman Charles Manson Gail Zappa Kim Fowley Ahmet Zappa eagles David Crosby John Kerry panga canyon
#747 Joni Mitchell's Blue

Sound Opinions

55:38 min | 1 year ago

#747 Joni Mitchell's Blue

"I am eroded downing traveling. You're listening to sound opinions. I'm Greg Kat. He's Jim Dora Goddess. And that's a little bit of the song all I want by Joni Mitchell. The lead off track from her nineteen seventy one album. Blue people are still talking about this record and influenced and moved by. It regarded as one of the greatest of all time. Certainly one of Johnny's greatest works unflinching honesty poetic lyrics. Those were elements in this record that inspired a range of artists. Tori Amos. Liz Fair. Even prince was singing. Joni Mitchell's praises for years today. We're GONNA take a deep dive into blue and discuss why it's a classic album and I said some of the tracks and we're later going to share our opinions on it absolutely greg who is Joni. Mitchell born nineteen forty-three Roberta Joan Anderson in rural Alberta Canada was a creative kid. Apparently right from the start would later go on to art school but it was not an easy upbringing. She contracted polio early on. It was that time bedridden. When she learned how to play Guitar and began to sing. She got pregnant when she was a poor folk singer struggling to make her name in. Toronto in the mid sixties had a daughter that she gave up for adoption. It was only years later in the Mid Nineties when tabloid outed that she'd had this child They since reconciled but what a thing to be exposed to the public a series of toxic sometimes a chaotic certainly Romantic relationships that I got undue attention often and all through it. Joanie is writing countless iconic songs in the folk pop tradition from both sides now. Aw Big Yellow Taxi Ono. What's gone today? We're going to zero in on what many people believed to be. Mitchell's greatest album blue. We're GONNA start our conversation. Speaking with David Yaffe author of the biography reckless daughter a portrait of Joni Mitchell. Then book was released in two thousand seventeen and details. Johnny's life career and Music David. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me for the young out there. Who Don't know. Can you give us the capsule biography? This young woman from Canada and how she set the world on fire or started to in the music world. It's interesting because usually when someone is a writer when someone is a musician. They have idols that they want to emulate and that didn't happen with Joanie not really. He had people that she knew how to imitate but she didn't idolize them so she's an unusual case that she's a great artist who didn't have somebody that she tried to emulate. I think this is part of growing up. Sort of remotely. Well that's part of it. She did grow up in this place. That Margaret Atwood described as a blank space on global culture. I mean it was very isolated was very remote. Family didn't have money. She didn't travel really so she just had that open sky and her creativity. She didn't have exposure too much but she says she didn't grow up playing guitar in the mirror or anything like that. She thought of herself as a visual artist but relented practical level. She thought that you probably ended up working in the fashion industry and that this folk revival was a fad and not go on for a few years a node die out and then she would do something else is off to star in the brain. Something that set off from the other children was when she got polio at age ten and she was taken to this polio colony and father never visited. Her mother visited once with a mask on the six months. Go by she gets her legs back and suddenly she's no longer there. I One pick for teams. You know she had thought of herself. As an athlete you kind of defined herself through that you know and suddenly her sense of identity was gone and so she started to turn inward and she started to find herself as an artist as a visual artist. The Kid who are the best dog house that kind of thing and all she really needed was just to go off in nature somewhere. Go off in the woods and be creative. And that was how she got through and then she goes to our school. She doesn't have a scholarship. And so nobody's really treating her like she's special so this kid seems like almost a little daydreaming As as a as a teenager figures out how to play guitar and basically invents an entire new style with the open tunings fifty open tunings by the end of their career or as a career is winding down this incredible method of approaching this instrument With with an immaculate voice to go with it and then this incredible songwriting Atkinson on top of all apparently self taught right. I mean and and she didn't know that would happen and David. We mentioned it earlier but she's in college at Art School. She gets pregnant during her sophomore year. She gives the baby up for adoption. This affected her very deeply. Where is she mentally at this point? And how you think. It was reflected in her music. That's right and she. She's living in a very very cheap rooming houses completely broke. I mean she the money that she's making from gigs but she starts to show too much. She can't perform anymore and so she's really you know like her neighbors are taking pity on her giving her fruit and stuff like that. I mean. She's really really broke. So she gives birth of your nineteenth nineteen sixty five. It's one of those things where like it's a. It's a situation where someone is pent up and can't say what she's thinking and can't say what she's feeling and has to keep a big secret about the source of it all and then it comes out in the sublimated way through these beautiful SAWS. Cha We love you are sending so you sign all the papers in the family name your and so because she was hiding this shame and because you had this grief of giving her daughter. The first thing that she ever rights is on the train. She's with the guy who got her pregnant scanning bread mcmath who took off soon after the on this fourteen hour train race. Toronto and so she hadn't written any songs. She was just doing traditional folk song. She was singing the songs. The jump hasn't Judy Collins were saying she was singing Santa that child ballot book. You Know Nancy whiskey interest so she's on the train and she stressed. This beautiful songs called day after day. She never records a bet it. You can hear it on. Should there's a demo of it a this kind of tragic full court that she got away from pretty quickly it's about a Damsel in distress is waiting for a hero on a horse to come and save her but she doesn't think that's GonNa happen so that's the sadness of the song was a beautiful song and it's amazing it's her first try and she didn't think it was good to record. Probably because it was riveted bet very impressive I try. And the second song she writes becomes a minor hit on the country charts and that song Urge for going. Yeah which which second son is trade trees? Shiver AVENUE. So let's fast forward. Joni goes on record her first three albums by nineteen seventy. She's won a grammy garnered. A large fan base found commercial success. And this is right before she starts recording her fourth out the record. We're focusing on today blue. How did she handle this? Since stardom being famous wasn't really something she was looking for you into it. You hope that you make it and then there's no exit strategy right. Isn't that always the case and Jones case? Because her work was so personal she didn't have a way of Creating the kind of barrier that probably you would need to have a healthy attitude toward it. I mean when you think about for example. The Way Dillon wasn't sixty six when vulnerable and you could see why he couldn't handle it in my head to go off the road for eight years and then you see him after that and you see the kind of creates this persona that distances himself a little bit allows him to to function in a way because he's an there's there's a barrier between him and I feel like Joni never really got that Johnny was always herself Fortune so call So that worked intimate in every way and so. I think that when she felt vulnerable brought on something that she thought of his like she said well people in the West might called nervous breakdown. But I thought of it. More as shamanistic breakthrough shamanistic breakthrough. That's how she thought of it and so she wanted to be. You know she. She now for retirement in nineteen seventy and and she went to live in a cave and Greece Was it literally? Did you get to the bottom of that? India's literally living in rock whole. Yes yes she was she was with the strontium Jo Ellen and she sherry she was living. Yeah it was a fashionable place to do it like a lot of hippies were hanging out there and then of course it was there that that this girl Joylin Lapidus designed to a Dulcimer for her that she ended up recording with on blue. She did case of you on that. Dulcimer California also. She was engaged to Graham Nash. They were living together and Laurel Canyon and that house in that house on Lookout Mountain. In which which I've been in the house it's a pretty modest house for rockstars to live in. It looked like a place that to graduate students would be sharing really. She was making money better. Just don't think she knew what that was or how to deal with it or anything She was just thinking about you. Know being creative and doing what she wanted and dropping acid when she wanted to and whatever. Well there's a David that fascinating interview. She gives to a Cameron Crowe about that. That point in her life. I came to a turning point. The terrible opportunity people are given in their lives the day they discovered to the tips of their toes. That they're a holes. What is she talking about? She said that she could look at people and read into them and read into their souls and it was sue overwhelming to her that she would be up to the supermarket and she would see somebody's soul and she would cry that the very thing that she was doing and blue which terrified some people which besotted others was that she was doing that with our listeners. Right because that quote is in relation to her being where she's at when she's writing and recording blue. Yes but but I think that when you hear for example like the title track of blue who To to you know live see before she's being so candid and so beautifully distilled about this melancholy that she's describing and the fact that she's using a color to describe it as important because she used Cynthia. She thought visual artist. You know you know her parents. Her father was colorblind. Her mother was also she thought colorblind whereas she was color acute so part of it was responding to her parents. And saying I can see things that you can't see you. Don't you know what you were doing when you were raising me because you see I can see it right? And so when she says blew it means a lot. It's an emotion. It's a color it's tied to the blues. You know she loves kind of blew. That was probably in the mix. They're very poetic writing. She wasn't she wasn't being super literal And I think that's part of the charm of the record is that People Wanna read all this stuff into it but there's also a universal quality to it that allows anybody to see themselves in and if they want to that's true and I call it the Joni Mitchell effect because she's hiding in plain sight. We'RE TALKING WITH DAVID. Yaffe author of reckless daughter a portrait of Joni Mitchell this very nineteen seventy habit of the music world in particular but my in general of of You know framing a women's talents and success and career with the men in her life. So as a biographer. You're telling the story of making blue writing blue recording blue And you can't ignore you know there's the Graham Nash. Relationship has unraveled the time in Crete living in the cave in Greece. There's a relationship with a a waiter and then James Taylor's in the wings and this romance. There is a Peace Corps activist who a cook named Kerry rats carries the song and then and then Leonard Cohen is in there too because a case of us is really about Leonard Cohen. I mean to the extent that any song is about anybody I think it was also I think just for additional context here just to add to that. Is that the way the record was perceived around that time rolling stone did a whole section about who Joni Mitchell had slept with around the time. There's record came out which to me kind of like okay. That is a typical male response. radio record by a woman to frame it in terms of who she slept with as a generation to generation of men in that. I guess what I would say. Is that her. Experiences are hers just in the same way that Bob Jones experiences are his without Leonard Cohen's experiences or his or John Lennon's or whoever else you want to think of as being in the Peer Group of Joni Mitchell Paul Simon. They write about their life. They write about their love to stay right about their sex life. They write about what they do. And it's their prerogative to do it as artists and nobody's GonNa question it and just as Question and if you're Joni Mitchell or anybody else right everybody's everybody's life is grabs when you're an artist so she's an artist but I also think that the experiences are less important than than the fact that they happened to Joni Mitchell and that Joni then has this way of articulating it. She has this way of interpreting it. She has this way of expressing her reaction to things that happened to her. And so it's not very remarkable to you know have of love. Life have breakup. Yes some of these people that she was intimate with were Amos. But that's pretty typical too if you think about it because people they often hook up with people that same field with what you're saying though if you remove all of that context of who it was specifically that she may or may not have been writing about. It's still a masterpiece. It's a masterpiece has been in fact. I think that if you take it for what it should be than it is about intimacy. I mean that's part of the store relationships I think it's artificial to remove it from its intimate content. Because that's the point talk to applause. I think David you used the word intimacy and I think it's a fascinating one and my rock critic hero Lester bangs set of blue that it's a record that that's too intimate. I almost feel like a voyeur. As a man Listening to blue. It makes me uncomfortable. Does that make sense? Oh Yeah no. I think she wanted because she was feeling uncomfortable herself and so. I think I think that's. That's the effect that she wanted. She wanted to confront people although she she did so in in dulcet tones. But she did. I mean the last time I saw Richard is a confrontation For sure you know all Romantics meet the same fate someday that that is meant to make people uncomfortable although of course it's with beautiful voice in these client finding candidates and so on. Cannell out almost talk to anybody about James. It's a combination of the lyric writing the melody writing the cords the rhythms with these truths these these intimate and often uncomfortable truths to be fair about this record by the way. I think I said this in the book that blue was maybe a sixty percent moping record in a forty percent party record yep because some of the songs are actually joyous and when talk about blue they think about all this grim stuff but you have cary which is very playful song and dance to get out and California. Kind of hopeful. California's Kinda sweet. I'M GONNA see folks leaving Kisa sunsetted peaks. It's interesting because like you know she she. She wasn't like Janice Joplin I mean Janice Joplin had this kind of raw reality. That she was taking it too and it was something that led to later. Patti Smith and whoever else you WANNA say Louis through Cindy Williams Liz fair minute certain kind of aggressive quality that and that. Joni herself would kind of have an an a later. Incarnation of her life but on blue. Everything is so you phony us? Even when she's talking about the darkest thing I've been blue. Is this beautiful beautiful song like while it's about losing yourself and and do something that could be. You know the heroin that James Taylor was hooked on could be destroying the darkest darkest place of trying to hide in the cloud or melancholy. The album Especially if you go to the bluest songs on blue like blue like last time last time I saw Richard like a case of you. It's just I mean. This is where the teased about it a lot. But it's just so honest and but what's remarkable is that a lot of things can be honest. Something can be honest and also not be good right sure. Blue is unflinchingly honest and it's a thing of beauty. Yeah and so I mean and maybe that makes people uncomfortable. It's confusing to two men because I think The emotions that you're talking about a lot of guys really are uncomfortable dealing with those. Let's forget not just Joni Mitchell but just talking to women in this way. In general a lot of men is very difficult. And I know a lot of women who really relate to this record because she's expressing what they would like to say or are feeling but can't articulate. Necessarily an interesting split the way it's interesting. A lot of male critics reviewed this record at the time But since then we've seen a lot of women chiming in on the record You know as their voices become more hurt in our media and I think they're the ones that are really championing this record and a lot of ways. Oh Yeah and and I mean listening to it. You know anytime in the new millennium listening to it in the ninety s no. It's IT'S A it's a different experience listening to it in nineteen seventy one and also about like why it wasn't that well received when it came out was not an instant big seller when it came out it took a long time to become biggest seller and a lot of that was like in the nineties. Yeah really and when the whole sensibility changed when you could be a different kind of a woman I think like Patti. Smith really shook a lot of people up and Sort of moved the needle. All the ways that you could express yourself as a woman. We'VE BEEN TALKING WITH DAVID. Yaffe author of the biography reckless daughter portrait of Joni Mitchell. David thanks for coming on sound opinions. Thanks for having me and thanks for such a stimulating conversation after a short break. We'll continue our discussion of Joni. Mitchell's blue by talking to music critic Lindsay Zoll all adds about blue's impact later. We'll share some of our favorite tracks from that record that's intimate unsound opinions from WBZ CHICAGO NPR ex. Welcome back to sound opinions. I'm Greg Kat. He's Jim dear goddess and this week. We're talking about the nineteen seventy one album blue by Joni Mitchell now earlier in the show. We discussed the context of the record and some of the tracks. And now we want to explore the album's influenced the lasting impact and legacy of Joni Mitchell. Today here to talk about is music. Writer and critic Lindsay Lads Lindsey welcome to sound opinions. They give your having the high. You wrote this brilliant piece fear of female genius about Joni Mitchell and we thought you'd be perfect voice to bring in to this conversation as we look at the legacy of blue first of all. That's brilliant title brilliant phrase you use throughout the piece. Tell us what you're thinking of when you say there's a fear of Joni Mitchell's female genius. Yeah I think that there are so few examples in pop culture of women who've lived and had careers and behaved like men who we call geniuses. Obviously I'm a huge fan of her music but I am fascinated by the way that she's moved throughout the culture and at each stop and each decade and era kind of show us what the resistance was to a woman living and working as freely as she did uncompromising brutal when someone you know challenges her she you know she takes no gump from nobody. Never yeah absolutely. She was so impervious to the criticism. She didn't ever let it slow her down or change the way she was doing business or or soften her in any way and I just think she's so fascinating for that reason and for so many reasons to all right. Well when she was making blow she even sort of dropped out of the music industry For a while before that record was made she's a famous woman. She had relationships with famous men. She was constantly being framed within these relationships. An incredibly condescending viewpoint of a great artist So what was the context of blue being made and and being as personal record as it was was it because of the environment That was sort of being shaped around her. The sort of the narrative that she was being forced into a sort of a the lone female artists may be that was getting that sort of recognition among a male dominated industry. Yeah I think there's always a sense of Joni. Removing herself from the context. She was in the story that the press was telling about her but it also is the moment after she leaves Graham. Nash and I talk about that in the piece to that. That seems like a really kind of pivotal turning point for her turning away from what could have been perhaps a stable and comfortable marriage and just fleeing and traveling and living a life of freedom and also kind of questioning what she was leaving behind by choosing freedom over. Graham scared away a lot younger than me and Greg and I wasn't even there when Joni was making her music wasn't quite conscious yet. You're younger woman. How did you become exposed to Joni Mitchell? And what sort of an impact? At what point in your life did the music half? There's something really match lineal about the way people get into Joni Mitchell and and that a lotta time it is literally through their mothers and back in the days of like burning. Cd's onto your computer. I one day just was like oh I got a few a Joni. Mitchell is all about and I remember sort of doing it. I took it sneakily from my mom's collection and like put it back so she didn't know that I was like the age to kind of understand. What Joni Mitchell was was coming from emotionally. There's usually kind of the older brother figure passing down the cool records and it's not a very cool story to say. Well I like Joni Mitchell because my mom expose me to her under the surface of the cannon that we usually talk about of of men defining and passing you know what is the great music on demand. There's something kinda subterranean about the way that her music Passes FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION? I love that. I don't want you to put you in a position of speaking for all young women today. Lindsey but I am so Ask Spokesman for two minutes. Anyway I just kind of record a record that was made in the early seventies Having an impact on a generation that was born. Well after you know Joni Mitchell's. Heyday can still listen to this record. And say you know I I relate to it I mean or or does it feel like a historical document rather than a living breathing thing that speaks to a young woman today. I think the record itself feels like a living breathing thing that people have gender can relate to and and young people because this sort of feels like a farewell to the twenty s record. And that's you know always kind of a theme pop culture that's that's recurring throughout. Whatever generation is in is in the twenty something slot at the time? But I think that she. I read about this a bit that. I think Joanie is so uncompromising and kind of prickly in some ways that she's hard to reduce into like a gift or a sort of Internet icon in the way that like. I wrote something about Stevie Nicks last year too. I think she's someone who. The image of Stevie Nicks has translated a lot more seamlessly onto lake internet culture youth culture. For whatever reason but I think there's sort of the image and then that is the gateway to the actual music so I think both those artists the music. Because it's really well. I think Joanie though harder to kind of packages come out if I in that way once the music reaches you. There's something about it that feels timeless and feels raw and current no matter what time and what generation you're talking about what would you say to the Cardi B. Fan? The grimes fan the Janelle monae Fan. You know the the precocious adventurous eighteen year old music lover to say all right all right. That's great playlist. She got there now. You gotTA listen to blue. Words FAIL TO DESCRIBE LIKE YOU. Kinda just have to sneak that on. Yeah Yeah I think a lot of those artists to would say that they were influenced by her. And maybe that's a place to start with people that that are unfamiliar with her. Like there's just you know talking to peace about her connection with Prince and how prince as a teen would go to these Joni Mitchell concerts and actually wrote her fan mail like in the Prince Syntax with the number and Yeah and I think that you know just the influence she had other artists who then influence other people. It's all this web of influence. That kind of goes back to her. There are a lot of forward thinking. Female Artists Lindsey. What about you mentioned? Prince as being one of the artists who was heavily influenced by Joni. What are some other artists that you've come across in recent years that people may not be aware of that sort of mentioned? Joni Mitchell as a as an influence on the way they make music. I think in modern analog to her maybe apple I think she has about her influence. But just in the the vividness of the lyricism and the kind of uncompromising way she has conducted her public life. And Kinda just plowed through whatever people had to say about her and and kept making albums that went deeper and deeper into herself. I think she's maybe one of the closest artists but she also is not as prolific journey. Was it. It's fascinating to look at that period in the late sixties through the mid Seventies. Just but how much she was fighting against every system that she came across but was making so much music and putting out a brilliant record pretty much every year I think Lauren Hill. There's a comparison to be made. There is low also someone who has not put out a lot of music is kind of I think part of the the kind of quote unquote female Genius Persona is. It's really difficult to get things through the system and to get to make the necessary compromises to even release a record that you're proud of so I do now that I'm thinking of it. Just the women that you could compare to Today art maybe having as easy time with their record labels or with the public perception. Yeah I mean yeah and Lauryn Hill. I mean both paid significant price for for for their You know we're criticized in public in disturbing ways you know in a way the Joni never put up with. There's just a lot of a lot more scrutiny. Now a lot more lenders to scrutinise women through Just on the Internet and with the way that the news cycle kind of works. I I do think it might be harder in some ways to to be a woman like Joni today but I also think there's just I'm hoping that the the floodgates are starting to at least if not open weaken in in some way on because I do think there's just a much larger volume of female artists out there. They're more visible. You have to kind of dig around to find analogues In in more modern context for her. I think that's also. That's a good point all right. Let me play. Devil's advocate question. Lindsey the headline of your piece of fear of female genius You know the problem when we have something like the NPR lists of greatest albums ever made by women last year. Right you know. Why aren't they just the greatest albums ever made right? Why are they almost by women? Why is she female? Gee I mean obviously. She's her. Art Is Very much from a female perspective. But are we limiting her by saying female? Genius as opposed to neil young genius Bob Dylan genius. Leonard Cohen Genius just genius. I think eventually hopefully we'll get there. I don't think we're there yet in the culture. You know she she was number one on the NPR women's last. But I think in the the rolling stone greatest albums of all time I think blue like number thirty and that was the first one by a woman a reason that she is really fascinating to me is an just to look at her. Whole story is that she showed us the limitations on women at the time and also the way that they were able to be transcended so I think that focusing on you know I talk in the piece about her pregnancy and the adoption and just the the way that that did kind of wait on her throughout her life. That's and the way that that was always kind of something that was gonNA tether her to reality more than it did The men who kind of behaved like geniuses around they could leave their family is a lot more freely than a woman was able to at that time so I think looking at her in that context. What does it mean to be a female genius? Are there inherent compromises in that that make it different from a male one and I think that just with maybe someday we'll get there where there's not but I think just in the culture we are unfortunately not there yet? There are not enough journeys. We've been talking to lindsays all adds about Joni Mitchell. Thanks for coming on the show Lindsey when we come back. Jim and I are going to share some tracks that we think are important to highlight from that album. That's in a minute on sound opinions from WBZ CHICAGO NPR. Alex welcome back sound opinions. I'm Jim dear got us. My partner is Gregg Kat. And this week we're doing a classic album dissection of Joni Mitchell's blue which came out in one thousand nine hundred seventy one and is arguably Mitchell's biggest success. We're going to share some of our favorite tracks now and why we think it is a classic Album Greg. You First Jim. I want to highlight the track California which some people think of as one of the more optimistic songs on the record. It is a song about home or at least her adopted home in California. Obviously she was born in Canada. This was written as part of her European hiatus she Basically dropped out of the music industry for a number of months after her first three came out and made her a star. She just wanted to get away from everything including California. She went to Europe and live like a Hippie for a while. But you got homesick. She decided even though I'm very disillusioned with California. I'm wearing out and on this European lifestyle. I WANNA get back home. The whole idea of coming home was was a hopeful sentiment. But there's also a key question at the heart of this song. It's a plaintiff question that I think is the key to the album that line. Will you take me as I am? She's speaking to California she. Speaking to America she speaking to her fan base. She speaking to the men in her life she is talking about. You know I'm I'm this woman who was independent is doing my thing on my terms. Will you accept that? Because if you can't I don't want any party. And that that really is kind of the impetus of the blue helmets and emancipatory album in many ways with that question at the heart of it and at the same time the feeling of longing expressed so beautifully a later in the song by a little subtle touch pedal steel guitar from Sneaky Pete Klina of the flying burrito brothers. The way that pedal steel sort of wafts through the atmosphere created by. Janis voice and her Appalachian Dulcimer. I think it's a beautiful song but with many many layers and is a great example of the multilayered songwriting. That is the key to this. Very simple arrangements. With many many textures and feelings coursing through them. California from Joni Mitchell's blue range renews shawl looks bad. They won't give peace a chance. Just a dream. Some of still. Does he WANNA stay here? Too Old and cold and sit in. I'M GONNA g-get leaving kisa sentences pig pound Dan Sperry well. He gave me my smile but he kept my cameras South Boulder because good omelettes stews and I might have stayed on with him. My full you fallen that is California. What I think is one of the key tracks from Joni Mitchell's blue. Jim would have you got greg. We have to Play Little Green. You know we were talking about this daughter that Joni Mitchell had when she was a struggling college student and folksinger had to give up for adoption. That's in the mid sixties. It wasn't until the mid nineties when that part of her life was exposed by tabloid and she subsequently years later Started a relationship with that young woman. Her Daughter Kill Lauren. Gabe I'm I you know. I think one of the sins that listeners a male and female but in particular the male rock crawling establishment lays upon. Blue is reading an as strict autobiography at all times. The reason I mentioned this This is obviously a song written about her daughter. Little Green but You know nobody knew about that. And for a good twenty five years and now that's all anybody talks about in the context of this song but if we look at the song one of those classic Weird Joni Mitchell a guitar tunings you know of her own songs in hoping g You know we look at the lyrics. It's about a longing in general. It could be. I heard as longing for the seasons to change away from the cold and into the spring it could be more specifically. I think longing for any parent In particular father all right. I'm a father of a daughter. So are you. You've got to About a daughter Both both being a an obsessive love but also some day. She's GonNa leave you and that's GonNa leave a whole you were talking about. How much longing and sadness and and emancipation runs throughout blue? It's not just in the romantic sense. It's also about in in the sense of childhood and then I think it's just a great song about hoping for something better period. You don't need to know everything that happened to Joni. It's part of the context but this is an immortal song because it stands without any of that little green by Joni Mitchell on sound opinions. Oh with the Moon in can serve choose serving name. Shulan sued to Cau- Green and the winters cannot all agree gypsy dancer. He went to he. Did everything's warm so right. Who is Jewish? Look Great. He's in Joni Mitchell. Little Green on sound opinions Greg. Another song highlight from blue. I like I like your choice of Little Green Jim because I think you know the the strength of Joni songwriting. Because you wouldn't have known it was about her daughter unless you had inside information it would have been about many many situations at the same time. Take drawings very specifically on the pain in her private life to create a song That has universal significance. And I think many of the songs on a blue have that regards to call a confessional album. I think completely misreads what it's about A great example of that is the Song River. You know it's amazing how. This song has become a Christmas standard holiday standard. You can hear it at starbucks plane. I'm not you know when you go in for a coffee starting about mid November You know it's just one of those things that's Kinda like wallpaper now for the holidays and it is an incredibly sad song. It's almost like a eulogy. Here's the Canadian girl singing about skating away on a river while she's in California a place that at the time. She does not really love and is kind of getting disgusted by the key. Line for me. I wish I had a river river so long I would teach my feet to fly. And the way her voice just sort of flies off on that last syllable is just so beautiful and heartbreaking And then lands on. I made my baby cry. This whole notion of I've just gone through this relationship that ended terribly. I miss my home of origin. I miss my childhood. You thinking about all these things coursing through the song and doing it. Beautifully with the framing device of jingle bells. I think people have a holiday song but it's played so sadly and mournfully and she starts off. Saint Kinda plaintive tone to those cords and then at the end. It's devastatingly slow. Slow was almost like a eulogy. So it's a beautiful and yet heartbreaking song that I think encapsulates the the multitude of emotions that are coursing through the blue album. Here's river from Joni. Mitchell unsound opinions cutting down trees put up reindeer and singing songs of joy and peace. Who I wish I could ski. Snow here stays pretty green. I'M GONNA make a lot of money then. I'M GONNA quit this scene. I wish I had a good ski wisha. Long would teach me away Aby River from Joni Mitchell. You've got one more great blue track for us. Jim A case of you Greg The Mitchell obsessive who I think often are obsessing and not listening Debate is this song about her romantic split from Graham Nash. Or is it about Leonard Cohen. I you know I don't care I that's life. That's not her art. What is brilliant about this? Art Is that we've all had a case of someone that is both good for us. And bad for US everybody you know obligatory rock critic quote. I'm a lonely painter. I lived in a box of paints. Okay but to me the the lines before that you know you are in my blood like holy wine you taste so bitter and so sweet. I could drink a case of you and I'd still be on my feet. That's everything I love about Johnny Mitchell number one. She's tough as nails. You know what I mean. You Not GonNa drink me under the table. I tell you I write number two the play on a case by case abuse a bad case of the flu but also I'll I'll devour case of you. I can't get enough and I love you but I'm also a broken by this relationship as we end it. All of these feelings are encompassed. And you know a lot of times. We talk about artists who cover something. I think it's a testament when a wide array of incredible talents. Come to the same song for inspiration and make it their own Tori Amos prints Diana Krall Katie Lang. All of them have done versions of case. View I think that they are all hearing something in it Different and bringing something of their own and you know so is everyone who really listens to in loves blue a case of you by Joni Mitchell on sad opinions just before you say constant as a northern star said constantly door whereas dead in a Carter. Tv's in Canada Sketched on Oh sweet still beyond my feet or I would still be on a case of you. By Joni Mitchell wrapping up our classic album dissection of her nineteen seventy-one out and blue. Now we want to hear from you. Do you have any opinions on blue or Joni Mitchell or anything in the music world? Call eight eight eight five nine eight thousand nine hundred and leave us a message as always sound. Opinions is produced by Brennan. Banish Alex Clayborn ionic interests and Andrew. Gill is that my phone On sound opinions everyone's a critic so give us a call on our hotline eight. Eight eight eight five nine eighteen hundred new messages. Hi there this is Clifford Lee from Minnesota and I really love your show about animals at our household here especially since we have six long weeks of winter the dog and I will take a moment and we will choose something to listen to before we go to bed and one of the things that we have listened to. Recently even though cats are our nemesis we have found a certain sense of solitude with listening to the virtue to the cat trilogy by the weaker than a way. And that's one of the things that kind of a go to for us here at the House and love your show. What would you guys do? I'm glad you're staying on and we hope to hear you Talk more about these fine for creatures that make us our friends take care. Now bye guys. It's James in Los Angeles California to songs come to mind about animals. Adrian Balu Loan Right through and blue the King Crimson with a dinosaur pop to mind great show once again. Keep up the good work. Hey Jim in Greg. This is Phil calling from Honolulu. Hawaii and just listened to your episode on songs about animals and when you mentioned animal farm. I thought certain you were going to actually mentioned. Chicago's own kid. Indie rock band by that name. Animal Farm in fact. I'm not sure you guys have ever done a review of children's songs or records for children but this is a fantastic band. All of their songs are about animals. I actually listened to the record even when my kids aren't in the cards. My favorite song is a song about change. And it's a song cold shed your skin and Eventually went to check them out. Animal Farm there a kid. Indie kindy rock band from Chicago. Thanks for your show. You guys are terrific like hi. This is Aaron calling from Chicago. I just listened to your little bit on this episode about Jesus Christ superstar. I have kind of an embarrassing story. I mean my cousin and my neighborhood friend we would listen to this record and twelve year old girls. We would pretend to go into trances. There were inspired by this and sleep. Walk around the room. One zero save him Jesus and it was somehow very mystically inspired by Jesus Christ superstar. Thank you enjoy the show by how you doing. This is John From Minneapolis. Just listened to your bid about Jesus Christ superstar and yeah might rock or not. I haven't really processed that part of it. The only thing I remember that one night like friends and I had a long night of drinking and the next morning somebody put on that record and my friends. Being a bunch of Catholic boys knew all the words and started to act out the script and I became Jesus and they proceeded to try to crucify me company. Jumping fall him. I had to escape through an upstairs window and run down the street so that play will always have a special place in my heart. Thank you great show messages to share your opinions on sound opinions. Call eight eight eight five nine. Eighteen hundred we'll be back next week. Unsound OPINIONS FROM WBZ Chicago and distributed by P R X.

Joni Mitchell Joni Jim Dora David Yaffe Johnny Mitchell California Graham Nash Joni Mitchell Paul Simon Tori Amos Leonard Cohen Chicago Toronto Mid Nineties Greg Greg Kat Joanie Joni songwriting Canada polio Liz Fair
Disharmony Part 3: Young vs. Crosby, Stills and Nash

Rivals: Music's Greatest Feuds

1:05:12 hr | 6 months ago

Disharmony Part 3: Young vs. Crosby, Stills and Nash

"Rivals is a production of iheartradio. com. Hello, everyone. Welcome to rivals the show about music beefs and feuds and long simmering resentment between musicians. I'm Steve Jordan, and this is the end of our epic trilogy on Crosby Stills Nash and young, and it's been building to one man Nelia. Oh, I'm sure he would have it no other way. The Godfather of CSM NY he's got the other three in his back pocket when he calls, they come when he walks. Well, that's just Bein to his passive. Aggressive mind control is like jed eye level. I mean you know I. Know I said in an earlier episode, crosby's my favorite member of CSM y but Neil's easily the most fascinating and he's also. The Best I mean, let's be real. I mean I. said in our previous episode that I love Stephen Stills the most of the original three but there's no question that Neil Young as a solo artist towers over the other three guys in this band he truly is like one of the greatest singer songwriters ever and one of my favorite guitar players ever. But often forgotten now like some fifty years later is that when he joined crosby stills Nash, he wasn't really a star yet, and in fact I think you could argue that joining this band made him a star and then he proceeded to completely outshine the rest of the band for the next several decades. It when he was inducted into the rock and Roll Hall of fame and Ninety Five, he got up there and said, it's basically a solo trip that was his quote. It's a solo trip which is really interesting when you consider Buffalo Springfield, crosby stills Nash and young crazy horse the stray gators. Played the Pearl Jam Booker t and the M. But it's also really you know insightful accurate statement for him I think it's an important clue and. The complicated mind of Neil Young you we all love Neil young because he has that strong individual streaky. Here's this material nature that s causing to make all sorts of perverse decisions in his career that seemed like the. SMART show business management. But when you look at his work within the confines of CSM Y, I don't think there's any question that he actually was like a secret showbiz genius I think in a previous episode, I compared him to Machiavelli. And I think that's really true. I mean. He played the dudes in ny like a fiddle and not only one the band but he won it in a route I can't wait to analyze how he did it. So without further ado, let's get into this mess. O'Neill's entry point into. was through Stephen. Stills, and they met playing clubs together and kneels native Canada back in early nineteen, sixty five and there were really immediately impressed with each other because they saw something in the other that they themselves lacked neil admired stevens really like soulful gritty sorta traditionally good voice and Steven Admired Neil's early songwriting attempts, which I don't think Stephen is really doing much at that time. It's funny. Given all there fighting in later years and they're very different personality types. Think Linda McCartney would describe them as chalk and cheese. It's real easy to forget how they came from really similar family backgrounds they both had these really complicated. Relationships with their sort of largely absent fathers and they had these domineering mothers and no matter what they did nothing they ever did was good enough of their mothers and so it kind of fostered this superhuman drive and ambition that they both have but manifest in really different ways. Neil is sort of the scrawny kid that can always win a fight. He just excels at self-preservation whereas stills has the self-destructive streak that would think would ultimately burn them out but we're getting ahead of ourselves. Yeah. We cover this debt in our Stephen Steals episode and if you listen to episode, you know that Neil has murdered Stephen Stills. Over and over and over again over the years for the reasons that you said that. This up degree like stills as putting the knife in himself while Neil is like whispering in his ear driving him insane with his passive aggressive mind control. But it really is striking like how different those guys were and how you. Just looking at them superficially that you think, Oh, Stephen Stills more assertive one in Neil is more passive but really neal was able to assert himself in a more subtle in ultimately effective way. So Neil. Neil is Hannibal Lecter, and then Stephen is multiple meeks. Exactly. Perfect. So. And Stephen. Go their separate ways in these Canadian clubs Stephen. As we said in the previous episode goes to La, in search of session work in monkeys stardom, which doesn't work out for him Neil stays in Canada. Informs a group called the mynah birds with Bruce Palmer and he very, very, very young Rick James and I just I throw this in there because if you haven't listened to it leased, have you heard the numbers ever Steven Yeah it's A. Yeah they're one of the. Great. What if stories? That could have actually happened. They could have been like you know across between like Funke Delta and the Rolling Stones Chambers brothers or something. Yeah. Unbelievable. They almost made it to motown but Rick James was arrested for going. Awol from the navy and the whole motown deal torpedoed. So Bruce Neil drive to la in search of Stephen Stills and the driving Neil Pontiac hearse, and they're looking all of La can't find Stephen. They eventually find him in a traffic jam. Go in the opposite way down sunset Neil does a uey and Stephen, sees neil in his rear view mirror in a black hearse and I think that's the most perfect metaphor for their relationship. It would professional relationship at least I can possibly think of whenever Stephen Things things are going well new young pulls up behind him in a black hole. And and murder them. Really. Exactly. Exactly. It's very telling that he's driving a hearse because he's there to drive away Stephen Stills as corpse. So. They formed Buffalo. Springfield and they start fighting pretty much instantly I mean new. It's funny that Neil's early on stage attire was this like Buckskin fringe native American outfit and stills would always wear these like Stetson cowboy outfits. They were literally cowboys and Indians onstage always fighting and neil later said, I, think it was in the Air Jimmy McDonough's biography Shakey Stephen and I it was too young guys to musical forces trying to coexist in a band that we knew was really good but neither of US had planned. On the other being a force, I think that pretty much sums it up. It was equally strong wills but totally different personalities and stills was much more as you said openly domineering and he would criticize Neil missing a note onstage I. Guess whenever they would play the whisky a go go the waitresses noodle like listen really carefully during their set because after the show there'd always be some fight that they'd be called in the referee on. You. Didn't you hear right in the Neil's like no no no. Come on I. Didn't fine. Yeah. I, always felt bad for the waitresses at the whisky So yeah, the fighting was pretty much instant. Yeah and I think you know when we think about young, we always think about a guy who hits every single note that is really the genius He never misses a note it's Nice. Yeah. You Know I. Think if you were to look at these two guys in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty six and you're going take a bet on who was going to have the more lasting career I. Think the smart money at that time would have been on Stephen Stills. You know he's this Blonde square-jawed good looking guy this cool. Bluesy voice. He's writing basically the conventional like folk rock songs like doing it really well. But then you have neil young who is this awkward gangly guy with a winey high pitched voice he seems a little shaky onstage to allude to the Jimmy McDonough book and he's writing songs that are much more eccentric in don't necessarily have that immediate pop appeal that some of the early still songs had but we can see of course in retrospect that these things that seemed like negatives about Neil Young nineteen, sixty, six, all ended. Up being positives because Neil Young, he's an artist that you have to lean into in order to understand. You know he makes you come to him and I feel like that's true of a lot of the greatest artists of all time. You know they don't seem like they're pandering to you. They make you concentrate on what they're doing, and it forces the audience to focus in much more than they normally would have and I actually. Feel like deleon was self aware of that and that's part of his genius that he knew that he could be himself. Enoch compromise would actually make him more charismatic. Yeah. I could never figure out if he knew that that was something almost in the dylan mold like no, I'm just going to be myself and that authenticity will will resonate with people or if he just truly didn't give I mean I guess there's probably some combination of. It's always hard to tell like how much is just his own nature of being stubborn and just being focused on his own news and how much of it is like this canny understanding of like how to get ahead I mean, I do think that those things aren't mutually exclusive. You know I I think on one hand he was this very idiosyncratic artist. But on the other hand, he was also ambitious in any wanted to be a star. But yeah, I, mean early on in Buffalo Springfield I think these things that we're talking about they seemed like liabilities like his singing voice, for instance. Really. Wasn't not allowed to sing all that much in Buffalo. Springfield like on that I record Neil Road. Some wonderful songs like nowadays clancy can't even sing and flying on the ground is wrong but those songs were. He didn't think those songs which furry saying, no songs who had a much more sort of conventional country rock sounding voice and a lot of songs too like they weren't picked to be the singles or or they were I think burned was a single was flying on the ground is wrong single too early on I think nowadays, clancy can't even sing and burned the first. Two Buffalo Springfield singles but again, Yeah Neil wasn't allowed to cinnamon and Steven will be awful to them. They would finally let them sing occasionally onstage would get on the MIC and apologize to the crowd for what his bandmate was about to to do to them. Inflict is terrible voice onto them and Neil would go offstage and go to his dressing room and cry, which is something. I cannot imagine neil young ever doing I know I know that's that's that's such a sad story Stephen Stills to also had an issue with Mr Soul originally because he thought that that song was basically to derivative of satisfaction by the rolling stones which truth be told that song does sound a lot like satisfaction but it's also a pretty amazing song on his own one of. The few Neil young songs that neal was actually allowed to sing and I feel like by their second record, which was Buffalo. Springfield again, neal was allowed to step into the four a little bit more like he sings Mr Soul. He sings expecting to fly, which is the big epic on that record but he also the issue of epilepsy at this time like where he started having. Seizures onstage. It seems like maybe that was somewhat precipitated by like all the stress that was going on in that band. But again, that's another factor that you look at it and you're like, you know if you're looking at him like dating sixty, seven, sixty eight, you're just thinking like is this guy too fragile to have a long lasting career? Yeah I mean you do wonder which came first the epilepsy or stretching the pan because his his ex wife Carrie snodgrass but later say you know he used to basically say, oh, no, i. feel a seizure coming on. I can't go to this dinner party or I can't do this or that, and he would say I wouldn't put it past neil of bake a seizure to get out of things. So he would later say that he withdrew from. Buffalo. Springfield because of just the toxic energy there and all the stress. But also you know who knows he could've used his affliction with just saying you know what I don't WanNa deal with this and I have a doctor's note saying. Yes, right? Yeah. I mean. Again. In Buffalo Springfield as great of abandoned as that was, it just seems like it turned into a toxic situation pretty early on and that I think combined with Neil's just again that that resolute nature that I think you already had where he wanted to be in control and he knew that he wasn't going to be in control if he was in a band Stephen stills although that was a lesson he was going to. Like not follow I guess in the very near future, but he ends up putting the band like pretty early on. Their whole relationship was just hanging by a thread when they're recording. Mr. Soul and Neil really wanted it to be the single and Stephen. As you said thought, it sounded way too much like satisfaction and he was pushing his own Song Bluebird, which is an amazing song. He put Neil through hell during the recording of it I think the engineer Bruce Bought Nick said that Stephen Just Hector Neil. So much the ended up having a like. During, the sessions for so not a pleasant time bluebirds the side Mr Souls The B. Side kneel at this point has made it clear to the rest of the band that he wants out and he he agrees to stay on through the the Monterey pop festival in June, a sixty seven but then the ban lands a gig on Johnny Carson show as the first rock band on Carson, which I I still think he's nuts that they chose that cool of a band I thought it would have been you know yeah association or like someone. Was Pretty Hip told. I never understood that but neal was not in this. He thought that just being on Carson he was worried that the Buffalo Springfield would've been basically curiosity for Middle America just the basically point and laugh at and like. Creatures in zoo or something. So two days before the due to tape a show, he bolts he he vanishes doesn't answer anybody's calls. He goes to hide out I. think it his girlfriend's house in the San Fernando Valley and he's just gone. He's gone for the Monterey pop festival to and they get crosby to fill in for him and steals would later say you know this happened again and again right? Exactly. When I needed neal was the time that he left. He left right when I needed him most I think that that is the wound that never really heals between them to I mean stills has ambition and he on some lovely probably. Feels like he needs Neil and right when they're crucial juncture of getting this massive mass media exposure, Neil Bolts and so neil is working on his own song called expecting to fly, which is this amazing track does with Jack Niche was Phil Spector's longtime arranger and it is a wild song i. always kind of thought that that was like one of the I like Laurel Canyon singer-songwriter songs as opposed to like a band folk rock song what do you think of that songs a great track in a really shows that like new young at that time had aspirations to be almost like a Brian Wilson like figure like where it would be very Because you know, we always think as being very raw in the studio working with crazy horse and playing live and leaving the mistakes in but he also has this strain like where he was obsessed with studio craft and he would construct songs like expecting to fly his first solo record is like that too. It's much more sort of as much more studio Polish than like his subsequent records would have. But again, that's like part of the sort of you know there's so many contradictions and Neil. Young. We were talking earlier about how a one hand he seems to be almost like anti show business on the other hand he's been incredibly canny in. How he's maneuvered in his career over the years and you know there's so many paradoxes like that Neil Young's career that you just have to reconcile if you trying to understand him but just just talking about all this you know the pop thing and you know him like not wanting to be on television and all that stuff I. I just feel like we're going to see this I think as this episode unfolds like no one has gotten more mileage out of saying no didn't Neil young or like the threat that he could say, no, you know and I think we're GonNa see that like later on in the history of CSM Y. Like. He had traumatized these guys so much that they were afraid of him and they basically. We're afraid that he's going to reject us. So it just causes them to cede any control of the band like when Neil Young would come into the picture like they'd just would lay down for him basically because he had said, no so many other times in the past and like what Buffalo Springfield to like. He quit the band. He rejoined the band again and he ended up quitting again I was like sixty eight or so yeah he rejoined basically because the DJ started flipping over the the Bluebird single and playing his song. Mr Soul instead and so suddenly that his song was getting all this here, play decided. Oh, maybe maybe being back in Buffalo Springfield not so bad after all our hand, we'll be right back with more rivals looney. Hi there I'm Jordan from rivals are recent three part episode on Crosby Stills Nash and young helped me rediscover the many sounds and styles of Neil young and you know the best way to listen using a pair of premium wireless ear buds especially if you can get them in less than half the price of the other guys, that's why I recommend wireless ear buds from Khan I was blown away by the comforting clarity of my rate cons. If you're gonNA hear all of Neal's six hour solo on down by the river ray cons are the way to go break cons newest model, the everyday e twenty, five year buds of their best ones yet with six hours of playtime seamless Bluetooth pairing. More base a more compact design and the noise isolating fit plus Rakhine. Ear Buds are stylish indiscreet with no dangling wires, their standards the company was co founded by Ray J and celebrities like snoop, Dogg Melissa Ethridge and brandy or obsessed with their products. 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They're busted and I think Steve is still girlfriend's house and everybody was sent to jail except stills who escaped out a bathroom window and ran for it and I always wondered like how much that played a role in like you know they're just how much that neil off neil was like risking deportation by by getting arrested and everything and Neil and Stephen booked it. So he's never really spoken much about that but I can't imagine that that really endeared even to neil very much. But he eventually quit again the Bam was on its last legs in the spring of sixty eight and then and then they were done I think in like April. So Neil ends up making his first solo record I think that comes on sixty eight. It's a self titled Record and it's a good record although again, it seems a little weird in terms of like how we think of Neil Young. Now, because you know I, think it'd Neil young either as the acoustic troubadour. The raw garage rock with crazy horse and like his celtel record is this sort of like a it's more in the vein of like expecting to fly like him. Maybe indulging his like Brian Wilson side like wine to make the sort of Immaculate Studio Record I think the Neil young that we all know and love like really comes into the four with his second record has everybody knows this is nowhere which his first with crazy horse and of course, this ends up being a very fruitful relationship for Neil young and I talked about this. A bit in our Stephen Stills episode I think the thing with Neil young is that he often will surround himself with musicians that I think aren't quite as good as him and I think there's a couple of reasons for that speaking of like crazy specifically one coming out of Buffalo. Springfield? He probably wanted to be in a situation like where he was going to be unquestioned leader. You know there was not going to be another Stephen Stills like figuring crazy horse I guess Danny whitten would be like that to some degree but you know I don't think whitten was as much of a EGOMANIAC Stephen Stills like he was going GonNa power struggles with Danny whitten and crazy horse. I. Think the other reason to is that Neil young realized that if he had this very simple and primitive backdrop that it would just allow him to shine all the more and when you listen to those crazy horse records, I mean I feel like the formula is you have this great sort of lurching rhythm section and out of that explodes these Majestic Neil, young, Guitar Solos that go on for several. Minutes, and it's such a great. It's a great formula and it's a contrast to like what Stephen Stills did when he started to ask for instance, which was this overloaded band lots of great players, lots of people showing off it's very busy same busy. It's great but like it quite have the power that Neil young has with crazy horse because everything the backdrop is so stripped back it just allows him to really step forward. I think it's hilarious like how the other guys and see us ny dot about crazy her city. Hey, crazy horse so. Be. I think has been the most vocal did here's some quote where he was like you know shouldn't have been allowed to be musicians they should have been killed. They should have been shot at birth they can't play. crosby quote machine. David. Cross. That's him on the record to again like. We talked about that in their crosby episode about how like with Crosby was calling Daryl Hannah the devil or whatever you claim that was off the record. This is crosby. crispy on the record saying that crazy horse should be killed access because they can't play which is hilarious but I mean I think that was probably another thing that appeal to Neil young about crazy horse. The years would would roll on about how different that world was from like the N. Y. World that he could just go into the garage with crazy horse and wouldn't have to deal with like a lot of the star trips that were NCIS NY. But we talked about this. We've talked about this in our previous two episodes in the series about how Neil young ended up in a CSM why we could probably just blow through a quickly here but I mean basically the idea was they. Made that I record that sixty nine record with the three guys on the couch, and then they needed someone to pump up their sounds as as a live act. Right and Neil young was the one that ended up kind of fitting that bill. Yeah. They were considering Steve Winwood a couple other people and they landed on Neil and I've spent. A Lotta time turned wonder why Stephen, who'd finally become free of his personal nemesis decided to bring him back after all these years of neil making his life in Buffalo Springfield Living Hell. It's one of the big questions of the series I. Think it's the unresolved question. My best guess is that was sort of fulfill the unfulfilled potential, a buffalo spring theory. I think about those couples that you know not to fight appoint outlets like a couple that has great sex but can't stand one. Another draw is so strong but the good stuff that happens between born out of this toxic torrent of resentment enrage. Stills convinced that they could make it work. They can actually really make work I mean I think there's almost like a brother thing there to like where I think. We'll talk about this little later in the episode, their relationship sort of evolved in like almost like a heart warming direction in later years. But yeah, I mean I think that there's a realization there that like you know we are connected in a way that like I'm not connected to other people I think still in young are. Much closer than like they are to like Crosby Nash. You know like those guys have something separate on their own. I guess in a way in the same way that at Crosby Nash had their own thing going on the stills young and even like how it could be toxic although really I mean I guess it's funny because stills was way worse to Neil Young early on but I think over the totality of their relationship Neil young has been harder on Stephen Stills and a lot of ways. I don't know man it's such a weird dynamic man like how these guys just invite pain from each other over and over again like it's true for all the guys in this band I mean Neil initially was very suspicious of getting in the crosby stills and Nash to, and he drags for like a month or something, and as usual he derives his power by making himself scarce and I guess you know people want what they can't have, and the probably went a long way in sort of. Forcing the band's hand in the making him not just the side guy but but a full partner, you know naming the band name kind of thing and you know obviously, neal was very aware that he was joining. You know the American Beatles celebrate group in the country and wouldn't be a bad thing for himself I mean to take his own group because it's important to say that Neil's name recognition was Neil at this point. Really I mean he would have been like you know crosby stills Nash. and. Crosby stills Nash and then like Gene Clark or something like that like somebody who who is really sort of more a Colt fringe figure and by joining this group as you said at the beginning with just expose them to this huge audience and I think he was upfront about this in later years to where you said you know crosby stills, Nash and young is GonNa. Make me a lot of money and definitely plays a big part me being here and he also made it clear from the start that this was not his first priority could come and go as he pleased and express himself and whatever other projects that he wished. I. Mean. It's really an incredible setup for Neil I mean. There's never a downside at all could only help him. Yeah. Exactly. Especially because like he said, he always had that back door that could walk out of and it's really funny to me to like how neil almost from the beginning was able to like both benefit from being in this band because again, as you said, they were like the American Beatles at this time they were hugely popular and Neil Young. You know he was known from Buffalo Springfield, but like his his first two solo records didn't sell all that well like at the beginning. So he was really coming into this great situation, but then he could also like us that band to boost his credibility by putting them down I'm yeah. And like I feel like there's an early example of that like when they performed at Woodstock because off four of them were at Woodstock I think it was like the second show they ever played. There's that famous clip of Stephen still saying that you know we're scared shitless. Playing at this show, then the movie comes out and Neil. Young refuses to be apart of the film. So you only see the three other guys in there and we can link that to all the other examples that we've talked about about deal young sort of making himself the story by taking himself out. You know like I am the story now because I'm not there and that's really kind of the story of that film appearance I. also feel like you know and he wouldn't have known this at the. Time. But it ended up being I think a very advantageous decision by him because you look at Neil young he's one of the only people of his generation that had like serious like credit with like punks and like indie rockers later like the grunge rockers of that time and I think it was because he was from the sixties but like he could distance himself from some of the big sixty cigna fires, I can away the David Crosby couldn't David Crosby is so endemically sixties when you look at him. Where if you're like a punk and you hate the sixties, he's like an easy target to make fun of whereas Neil. Young is like right next to David Crosby and a lot of things but it's like, oh, he's the guy that didn't want to be in the woodstock movie. So it's like he almost has this weird credibility there because he didn't do that or he wouldn't allow himself to be in the movie I'm GonNa make myself the story by being absent because I have integrity it's genius. It's incredible. Genius move and like I feel like again, maybe he was doing that because that's how he really felt and I'm sure that's the case but you can't tell me that on some level he didn't realize the smartness of that from just the image and career standpoint. Yeah I mean this would happen again and again, and again I mean even when you're when the recording their first album as a as a quartet Vu was absent really for most of that was really a crosby stills and nash album featuring Neil on. Two of his songs think he only played on five of all the songs on the album and crosby and Nash. Their debut have been pretty painless to make because stills had been of the unchecked musical director and Deja Vu. It was not that way at all. It was almost like the white album sessions were really kind of fractured and strained and. Neil famously hated all the sounds of of the Buffalo Springfield records and he was very loath relinquish control of the sounds of his songs. So when he would get in there and record his tracks helpless and country girl, he basically viewed it as like that's his business. He would record the songs, take the tapes, go to his personal producer. David. Briggs. Mixed. On his own and make it sound the way he wanted it to sound as opposed to still sitting there like well, what are you doing? This is a band and you can't just take your things and do it completely by yourself and by the way I engineer the first album we did and it's zillion copies I know what I'm doing. First of all, why don't you trust me and second of all how dare you right exactly. Again, we talked about in our last episode but yes, still just like dude, I'm doing you a favor man I'm literally adding millions of dollars to your bank account by inviting you into this band that I started, and now you're pulling this stuff again. This murdering stills in the studio during deja-vu get the blackhawks out. Neil her. Hall. Stephenville's away one story that really makes me laugh is about the teacher children and this occurred years later, of course, your children is like one big hit songs from Deja Vu that Neil young doesn't play on. And Graham Nash was always really upset about that could because like they had the session neil new and it was and he just didn't show up You know I think justifiably took that as a sign of disrespect. It's like, Hey, like we are here for you. Why can't you play my song it just it makes me feel like you don't really take my song seriously and like years later, Graham Nash had his first opportunity to license that song for a commercial and I think that song has been like in a million commercials since then but Neil Young was upset about that because his name was on it and he had also put that song this notes for you. From the late eighties. Yeah. That's making fun of corporate. And Graham Nash was basically like Dude. You didn't play on the song. So like I don't really care what you think I'm GonNa do this I'm GonNa. Make Bank. You should have shown up to the session. You know twenty years ago you know maybe I would care about your opinion but you know I'm giving you a heads up out of courtesy but I'm gonNA take the cash. So I think that's pretty funny. The two I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this revisiting Neil young records for this. Which? Of course, always a great thing to do or love listening to Neil young records and I was really struck listening to after the goal rush and harvest. I don't think. I'd fully made this connection my mind before about how much those album sound like CNN why and how you listen to the albums. Neil young did before he joined that band he wasn't doing the like the folk songs with lots of harmonies. Yeah. That's not everybody knows this is nowhere. He's not really doing that on the self titled Record But then you get to after the gold rush which came out six months. After Vu so perfectly positioned to kind of capitalize on the success of that record. Yes. Sounds like tell me why only level break your heart that just have these like again, beautiful melodies they sound like they could have been on a CSM y record and that's know doubly true of harvest which has heart a gold old man needle and the damage done again, all very sort of c. n. y. sounding records, and like it occurred to me that like Neil Young, he was able to jack their sound and do it by himself and do it better because as much as I. Love those. See us. Ny records after the gold rush is a better album. Harvest is a better album and he was just like, Hey, I can do what you do and I can sell as many records you guys sell but I can do it by myself like I. Don't need you. You know which is another incredible thing that Neil young is able to pull off at this time. Just blows my mind stills must have been like, where were you when we were doing digitally Mr been listening to all of this I got the impression that the. US brought their best songs to see US N. Y. projects whereas neo kind of brought ones that seems sorta like uncharacteristically I'm GonNa say lightweight but more lightweight than step that'd be on after the gold rush. You know the songs ended up on deja Vu helpless and Country Girl I. Think he also brought man this and everybody's alone to the sessions to which didn't make the cut but he kind of brought these more sleight poppy songs as if that was like all CSM wide deserve I mean I think help us is like a pretty. Great Song although I would take most of the songs on the goal rush probably over that one I mean, I mean he did right Ohio for them, which is like maybe the greatest song. So you gotta tip the cap there but yeah, I agree with you I think it's pretty clear especially as we get into like the later albums when we get into like inner spirit dream era and like looking forward and you look at like what neal was doing on his own versus what he was contributing to those records Yeah it's a pretty clear. That he was holding things for himself. He's making freedom the same time then he's making American dream I exactly at the same time. So yeah. So so anyway, I mean. He he makes deja-vu with with CNN and then he does these like just these brilliant solo records ended up being huge hits and it's almost like you know by the mid seventies or so I mean Neil Young I think already at that point was probably the biggest star in this galaxy but he was also still drawn into working with these guys again like they started. We talked about this in our Stephen Stills episode. About human highway like how they tried to get that album going. Seventy or so yeah I think at that point kind of Neil had sort of haunted by Danny whitten's death and he had done the harvest tour of the turned into time fades away which you know was so unpleasant to him that I don't think he'd he allowed it to be widely available for decades. So he was a kind of a low personal and commercial APP, and so the other three and CSM. Why They went to Maui and I think Jimmy McDonough's book. They sort of a side mission aside from trying to get the band back together make a new CSM y album was to try to wean stills off of cocaine and apparently Bruce Berry, who was a a working man and drove in a line van He was a Rhody for the group. He showed up with cocaine for apparently for stills and it was a big blow up they. They sent Bruce back to the mainland where he almost immediately od to think a couple days later on man and so this instigated this. Big. Fight with the group sessions in Hawaii were called off and they eventually met back up at Neil's ranch in in northern California to try to resume sessions on what was tentatively called human. Highway, which I thought was interesting that they named after a neil song and they went to Neil's ranch record. It's always about coming to kneel and they got a couple of days into the sessions on the ranch and Neil just walk that he went. To David, Briggs House late, one night instead of doing this record, and it's all wrong I wanNA, make a rock and roll record, and that became tonight's the night which you know it's just one of the most agonizing expressions of grief on record. It's like up there with the plastic ono band just him processing the death of of Danny Whigham Bruce Berry and you know it it's hard to overstate like how Great Neil Young was at this time you know. There's that famous. You know if you look Neil Young, you know this story about how he had those big successes with after the goal rush in harvest, and of course, working with CSM Y, and then he goes into what is known as the ditch period where he's making these really noisy angry. Sad drunken records like time fades away. Tonight's the night on the beach They're just brilliant and he's just coming up with tremendous stuff and you know I feel like sometimes like the other guys in the band get like A. Little bit of a short shrift about like what they were doing it this time because I think as we've talked about in like our crosby stills episode, I still feel like at this point, the other guys were writing good stuff you know and they were putting a good albums i. think by you know once we get past the mid seventies things get a little patch here but you know I feel like in a way like Neil young sort of fed that perception that these guys in the band like were weren't that great. And and truth be told I mean they were not as good as him I mean there's no question of that. No one's going to say that they were keeping pace really neil young at this time but I, just think of like the doom tour era and you know we've talked a lot about the doom tour already it's a great period. I love to do a tour I know we could just do a whole series on the doom tour as far as I'm concerned but you know I think like Neil youngest talked about. How on that tour, he was disappointed because he felt like You know they were playing these really long shows and they were introducing new material into those gigs. But like he felt like he was bringing the most to the table and if you listened to tapes of that time I mean he had some incredible songs that he was basically debut on that tour like pushed over the edge like an incredible song. So many great songs, I think the other guys were also like putting up some pretty good stuff too but. There's no question that Neil young was like at a real high creatively I mean I think most of his disgust with tour was just with like the decadence of it and like how much they were spending on just stuff. They didn't need like lobster dinners before the show that like no, one would eat that kind of stuff and I think he ended up what's up on lobsters before all show A bunch of lobster and your stomach go sing with butter three hours. It seems awful and I think by the end of that tour, the rest of the band was like traveling by jet and he was like in his like a kind of line van essentially right I mean was he just kind of going like Van Life on that tour? Yeah like. A GMC motor home that I think broke down it was like such a piece of junk Britches imagine young on the side of the road in a in a broken down motorhome is kind of how I prefer to think of Neil Young. But he he wasn't hanging out with the other guys at all at that point no no, he was definitely again. You know they were doing the rock star trip and he was basically being like Indie rock guy like I I WANNA do my own thing you know being my own world and look I love tour I live album that they put out the wind nineteen seventy four I think is so good but I it just seems like Neil young that satisfied and it seemed like again like him and steals were battling onstage. You're doing basic spinal tap like folk-rock addition like where they're just trying to out volume each other just cranking the amps and You're just killing their eardrums basically which which I mean. Then of course, you get crosby and Nash Sing over that and it killed their voices. So when you listen to the tapes back I guess Nash almost in tears when he played the tapes back because their voice shredded trying to compete with one hundred decibels steals in Neil's AMPs Marshall Stacks and everything. I mean. The other incredible tour I guess from this era that we need to talk about we talked about this a bit. In are still episode but the stills young band tobacco that happened I can't believe that even gone as as I. Did I just can't believe that they even like thought that was a good idea in any way shape or form because I mean you listen to that record and I feel like I'm paper that would have been a cool idea like again steals in young working together the brothers are back. They're going to work out their tensions and if they could have like somehow like. The hostility that they had between each other into the music, it could've been incredible could have been like really edgy alive and great, and the record itself I just feel like it's subpar material for the most part from both of those guys except for the title track, which is this great Neil Young Song. But then you know the other tracks on there are pretty lightweight and then they ended up going on tour than that ended up being. A Disaster Oh. Yeah. I mean Neil didn't like it from the beginning because he felt that the band was mostly Stevens people and it's very, very important for for Neil to be around Neil people you'll need people at all times. Yes. So from the start, Neil feels like something wasn't working the balance was off and the critics weren't very kind and unfortunately they were praising meal trashing stills. There was one headline that was young hot steals not. Hard to imagine that you being you know format being used in the context of a rock critic review but say like hot or not existed in the seventies I feel like that's Name you know. Be, dropping, hot, or not jokes in the seventies. That's that's that's kind of weird. So stills was very much unhappy about being deemed not hot and he consoled himself with alcohol and cocaine which made him even more tyrannical. The normal he starts taking it out on the crew thinking that the cruise conspiring against him to make him sound bad. This you know makes him less. Than popular with the crew, which then exacerbates zone persecution complex and it goes round and round and round one night in Charlotte. Stills berates sound guy in front of a packed house like in the middle the show and kneels just horrified by this they stills nealer travelling in separate buses and I guess the next show is in Atlanta and Neil goes up the. Driver's bus and says, all right turn left here. Well, Neil we're supposed to go right now turn left here goes to Memphis and catch a plane back to California still arrives at the hotel in Atlanta and finds a telegram for him from. Neil that says, dear, Stephen Funny things that start spontaneously and that way eat a peach, knee? Yes, and we we covered this stills. Episode and I think we were looking at it from the perspective of stills. Again, just being corpse on the floor at that point wants the gap. No future was as quote said, you know this is like the fifth time that you'll young is murdered me and I I just allowed to continue to happen. You know it's like that Tom Cruise movie edge of tomorrow. Getting murdered over and over again that's like that should be like CSI y bio-pic right there but you know since this is the Neil. Young episode you know looking at it for Neal's perspective I mean as like Karsh. Says that is to do to someone who's like your friend I get where he's coming from. If you're looking at a purely from an artistic point of view because again he's on the. Road promoting a record. That's not very good. He's with a guy who's like yelling at the sound guy overplaying on every song he's probably thinking his mind. You know I can hook up with crazy horse echo hooking the stray gators something. That is like way better than this. I'm in the middle of like one of the greatest runs in rock history in terms of albums like I'm spitting fire left and right. Of, that Song Thrasher, from Rust never sleeps with the line in there. We talks about like those guys were dead way to me such a devastating song and it's and he's talking about CNN. And I think this is an instance where he's like I got to cut the dead weight or I'm GonNa Drown, you know and so from that perspective I understand it it's like you know, yes, he murdered Stephen. Stills. But maybe it was self defense you know I'd say it's either him or me I'll murder him so I can survive he would defend themselves years. Later. You'd say I only care about the music. It's sad. Sometimes, people are damaged by but if people understand me, they understand that when the music finished with me, I'll be back if you can wait for me that says it all still yeah. So let's flash forward to the eighties and this is what he's know. Exactly. This is a dark period I think for. All involved although I feel like in a way, you could have argued maybe in the early eighties that likes an had some say daylight again, if you will with their album nineteen, eighty Tuesday lead again, which was like a pretty big hit record I mean southern cross is on that record wasted on the ways on that record So they had this sort of. Flash of relevance again, whereas Neil Young was really a low point in terms of his commercial appeal and his critical appeal and you know he was not the Neil young necessarily that we think of now like he he was pretty marginalized and in a way you could say that he was doing it to himself because he put a this sort of wacky series of. albums, albums everybody's Rockin old ways trans all albums on some level I enjoy and I appreciate why he did it. But this was the era where famously David Geffen who owned Neil. Young's record label sued Neil Young for not making Neil Young sounding music, which is one of the greatest and most bizarre lawsuits in rock history. But in a way you could say i. Understand, David Geffen's point of view to a degree like I don't think he should have sued Neil young but it is true that like did not seem quite like himself and I think that is why he probably ended up hooking up with CSM. Again, you know I just wonder like if on some level, he felt like well when I joined these guys in nineteen. Seventy it really helped my career. So maybe can help my career again here in the late eighties needed. You think there's any validity to that. That's really interesting I. mean the story that he kinda puts out there is that when CSM, why have a one off reunion at live aid David Crosby was in rough shape and he said you know I it crosby. Can Get things back together again will join us again for a new album, and at that point you know crosby looked unlikely that he would live through the rest of the decade. So probably thought it would never actually happen and then in eighty six he he does get clean in prison he gets cleaning gets released and neo kind of made it seem like. I had to make this new album with the other guys because I said I would you know it's like a sort of be true to my word but. You could tell just by listening to it that his heart wasn't in this is American dream in I. Think it was eighty seven it is a horrendous album. It's a terrible album and like it was weird to me is like I think some of the songs are okay but like the sound of it is awful, the production is is really bad and like Neil young is to blame for that because he insisted on using his guy at the time this Guy Niko, Bolas, who was like this young producer and The story exactly what David Briggs at that point if he wasn't, it seemed like there was some sort of separation going with. Briggs who really was the guy working on all the Great Neil Young's yeah and really I mean Briggs passed away nineteen ninety-five I think it was and I feel like dealings music has not been the same since since Briggs now passed away. But you know I I think they recorded at his ranch to like didn't they? So like they all came to him so it's like, oh, great like Neil Young is taking charge of the sound. This is gonNA. Be a little more raw. It's going to sound more real and it's like this sterile eighty sounding record and It's really weird because you lived to. This earlier like Neil young around this time he ended up putting up freedom that came out in eighty nine also working with Niko Bolas and that ends up being really like his comeback record in like heralds the beginning of this great period that he had in the ninety s of like this artistic rebirth like the nineties is like one of my favorite Neil. Young decades I. think there's some really great records that came out at that time and freedom was the beginning of that and it's like, why was freedom so good in American dream so bad it's like. was he intentionally sabotaging them like was this some weird thing I mean I don't think that's true but I, don't understand like how those results could be so different. Americas, you're fucking pan flute on it's even it was. How can you allow that to happen I? Guess Brigands Zamfir in here to play some flute. I mean, yeah. I mean like you said Freedom Ragged Glory Harvest Moon the nineties run is incredible and. Pretty much you know back burner for him. I mean, and then at the end of the decade, one, thousand, nine, hundred, nine made the last the last album. Ever, made together looking forward. And it was basically a crosby stills and Nash record that Neil added three acoustic songs to that were three of his best in my opinion slow poke out of control and the title track, which again interesting go the neal song for the title track every project from that he was a part of. From you know human highway sessions on were all named after a Neil Song, which I always think is really interesting. Well, you know we talked about this before about how the other guys in the band like the CNN were terrified of Neil Young I think at this point and we talked about the power of no, and at this point, it was almost like it was like the power. Of the threat of no, you know they didn't want to illuminate him. We didn't want to do anything that would scare him away. So like when you read about the tours that they started doing, you know you mentioned the tour, they did in two thousand and what was that the Y. Two tour which is a very cute great dad joke. But yet they did like I think three tours. In. The Arts and it just sounds like Neil, young was the boss of those tours like he's the one that really would determine the format. Of course, there was a living with war tour where he was like really in control of that but I remember reading the story I can't remember what tour it was from the odds but there was some story about like how they're playing a show. In Saint Paul and after the show Stephen Stills like wanted to stay behind and take a shower before leaving the arena and a new young had like like bolted immediately after the show who like a luxury suv it went to the airport and like you said, he'd let the crew it's like everyone has to leave immediately I don't WanNa Hang. So Stephen Stills didn't take a shower he left. All. Right. Bosnia is this like it's like. I just WANNA winded Stephen Good to take a shower like did he have to stink for like? Before. You can take a shower. This also has to do not just like with. Neil young stubbornness or his ability to sort of back out of things was also money i. mean he was again I think in the nineties you know because of all the great records he was putting out and also you know working with like Pearl Jam in being very against smart about positioning himself as a really kind of youthful elder-statesmanlike. He was again I think one of the only like sixties people that really appealed to the younger generation like a Gen xers who would maybe like turn up their nose at woodstock normally like they love Neil young it just you know brought him back to being A. Huge Star and I remember reading David Brown's Book which we've talked about in this series quite a bit which I recommend everyone reads called causing stills, Nash and young. There's some quoting they're talking about how the difference between playing with Neil and doing their own show is like the difference between like sixty grand and night six, hundred, grand a night you know because they're plane still playing arenas with Neil and the plane theaters without him. So there was also a huge financial imperative to keep Neil, young happy the living with young to always really fascinating me too because it seemed like they were really kind of like. You know almost like his opening act in a way like his side men. Crosby referred to him as a benevolent dictator on that tour because it was very much like the Neil young show I. It was almost weaponising nostalgia. Guys together so that he could get all these people that loved music, the Laurel Canyon ditties in the late sixties in the woodstock era stuff, and then kind of cast that in stark relief to the you know George Bush era post nine eleven We were living in it was almost like he was trolling their CSM wife and it was kind of my impression of it. Yeah. In a way, it's kind of weird. I mean I think on the flip side of that. You could see if you watch, there's a there's a concert documentary about that too called CSM Y Deja. Vu that Neil young directed under the name Bernard Shakey and how there's a famous seem like where they're playing the living with war songs I think in Atlanta and the crowd just goes like nuts in a bad way like they're yelling at the at the band they're doing. And this song's called. Let's impeach the president. Not Liking it. They're not digging that song and like when you re David Brown's book it talks about like how rattled Neil young was by that like it was really like he I don't think he was expecting that kind of reaction necessarily that strong of a negative reaction and as much as he was like dogging the other guys net band over the years I think you can see at that time that in a way he was leaning on those guys to support him during that I think it's very telling that he didn't tour that record on his own I. Think in some way he wanted other guys up. There with him that would take the heat with him. You know and it says something about the relationship with these guys like you know we've gone over all the craziness that's going on with them. But there is this sort of weird loyalty that existed for a long time where they would support each other in situations like that. Even Neil. Young. who was very cynical about this band I ki- I was relying on that on that tour that's interesting I. I always thought that it was basically he tapped the other guys because he knew that appeal to a certain demographic of a certain age who know presumably shared a similar. Mindset in the late sixties of of peace love Woodstock hippy dome kind of thing and would kind of rub their noses in maybe what how far their current beliefs are. In two thousand and five, thousand, six, Bush era Iraq were type you know supporters and kind of make them confront who they were with who they were now but you're right I mean it's funny to think that he might actually feel he needed somebody to to bear the brunt of all that abuse to well, and the thing you said I'm sure that's true too as we've said, many hands about Neil young he's a man of paradoxes. He wanted to provoke that audience and also maybe bask in the comfort of being with his old bandmates I. Don't think it's interesting that I. It's so fitting that for all of the fights that Neil? And Stephen had for forty five, fifty years it was crosby who ended up detonating the crew seemingly for good I would say, yeah, it seems like that and we talked about the our crosby episode, the whole Daryl Hannah incident, poisonous Predator. Poisonous Predator, and it sounds like I mean it's a he like apologized for that I. think he's done it publicly. It sounds like he called Neil young at some point in apologize for it but you'll that pissed off neil and feels like crosby pissed off everybody with that and other things over the years. You just wonder like at some point if the usefulness of this brand just kind of like runs out of gas a little bit you know like. We've talked about how I think for all these guys the CNN and CSM why banner would be like a shelter that they could go to in you? Financial shelter it was like an emotional support shelter. You knows it was almost like a well, I keep using different metaphors here I said shelter I'm GonNa say a well now that you could dip into and replenish yourself, and then go back out in the world and maybe just maybe the well ran dry eventually and this was the sign that. Maybe I mean I I do of the most heartwarming part of this whole story is the sort of rekindled relationship between Neil and Stephen and Neil for all of his his quirks and his material nature I think understand Stephen better than anyone I. Mean You know no gallagher was said Liam you know I can play him like a slightly disused arcade game and I think neocon play Stephen like a slightly disused arcade game in ways that benefits himself. But he also I think genuinely loves them. There was a great quote that gave I think it was in the Gym Donna Book where he probably the most insightful. Statement I've ever seen about Stephen Stills, he said, you know he's a real sensitive guy sensitive. He had to get himself together and how he gets himself together as he tries to take over the world but I'll tell you he's just nervous. I could see that you take away all the insecurity and all the things that have main stephen do some of the stuff he's over the years and there's a wonderful human being. WHO's right. There, I always see the real stephen in there and he's a really great guy what strikes me listen to the quote is how he emphasizes how sensitive Stephen Stills is. Because again, a can look at those guys. Superficially you think Stephen Sills is the gruff bully in. Neil. Young is like the sensitive eccentric and not that Neil young as a bully, but he is a lot tougher. I think than you know maybe his persona suggests. That guy I think again was along with being this guy who's always gonNA, follow his Muse and be art I I just think he's such a genius and how he's maneuvered his career in the same way that people like Bob Dylan are you know or springsteen anyone who's stuck around that long? You really do have to have the ability to be lots of different things at once and I think that's something that we've seen over and over again with Neil Young, we're going to take a quick break into word from our sponsor for we get to more rivals. So. This is the part of the show where we give the pro side of each part of the rivalry. We'll talk about the pro Neil Young Side I. Look we have to say anything more than Neil young as Neil Young I mean Neil Young for crying out loud. He's one of the greats of all time and as much as I. Love the other guys in crosby stills Nash. There's no question that Neil young towers over them. artistically I mean, he towers over most people in rock history artistically and I think what he brought to this band was. A certain relevance I think that they did not have after say one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, five, you know it's like if if he was involved in this band in the nineties or two, thousand, two, thousand, ten's as like spotty as like their output could be you're more likely to pay attention if Neil young as on board it's like the possibility that it could be great even though you're more likely to get like American dream or looking forward, you still feel like, oh, it could be great if neil young as involved at that is the thing that he that he brings. To this band and I just go back to to that thing about after the Gold Russian in harvest I was blown away now even to this day that he was able to take what this band did in, do it on his own improve that I can do it on my own better than you guys can do it. So we don't really need you people are just GonNa want me. Proven to be true over the last fifty years like Neil young it's like if you think of beautiful songs with harmonies. Yeah. You think of. Maybe think of Neil Young I and you're GonNa put harvest before you put on A. Record and that's the genius of Neil Young. It's really crazy to think that his entire recorded legacy with CSM y really is just on three songs country girl helpless and Ohio nobody ever mentions anything American dream and looking forward and if they do they do it in you know with an asterix next to it. It's amazing that sort of like you said, the reputation that he gave that band just on the strength of those three songs alone you said nineteen seventy five was when he started giving them relevance I would almost argue even earlier that sort of he was what the ban needed as sort of the woodstock age transitioned in the Watergate Era I. Think it was you know Ohio. Is I think that transitional point for them and there was a great was elliot, Roberts quotes it said. He gave the ban balls Neil. Young's got balls dripping down his back shoulders leg everywhere. He's got balls to spare and think rather than being sort of like a Hippie Everley brothers, birds, fusion harmony group I think yeah I did give him the weightiness that helped him endure balls dripping down his back I'm not sure how I feel about that quote. drippy balls nearly as he's known next. So, if we go to the PRO CSM inside or the Anti Neil Young side, you know I would say again I think Neil Young, you know and not to his credit. Really I think he often was like openly disrespectful to the other guys. And I feel like that's Kinda crappy on his behalf because again as we've established I, really feel like early in his career joining this band was a pivotal moment for him becoming a big star. If he hadn't had that platform early on I, wonder if he would have remained more of a cult. Hero of like seventies, La Rock then like the Big Star that we know in love today So I think for that reason you know I would hope that he would have a little more reverence for like what those guys did for his career and like the audience was able to bring into their and I would just say in general to you know I know, I, had this this bias. For a long time that I thought. Neil, young was was the greatest and that the other three guys the guys were lame and I didn't care about what they did and for a long time, I didn't even pay attention to their work and when I finally dug in, I was really kind of blown away by like all the great music that crosby stills and Nash made on their own and made a different permutations. Throughout the years and I hope that if you are one of those people that don't really take. Part of NY. Seriously that you inspired by this series that check those guys out because yeah they're not as good as Neil young but I think they made a lot of great music on their own and they deserve to stand on stage with Neil Young at. All does great. But can't say about many people. Yeah. Exactly. I Echo that I think that still sort of in in the in the Lennon McCartney dichotomy that I tend to view the world. I think stills was the McCartney figure, the kind of workaholic who taskmaster who sort of smooth out kneels, rough edges and make things more commercial than ordinarily be I think that was kind of in the very very early days maybe still thought that he could sort of package Neil in the way that he wasn't able to really do in. In Buffalo Springfield obviously that didn't work out but I I would like to think that like you said, maybe Neil learned a thing or two by watching stills up close doing the working on Deja Vu together, which then could put into into after the gold rush and harvest, and also like you said, crosby stills, Nash and young was a huge platform for him and I think that if he wasn't in that group, he probably would have been like a you know gene Clark figure or gram Parsons like an L. A. Fringe rock early seventies guy who you know made strong records but you know would have been like is his solo debut. No one really talks about now even though I love Yeah, I think that the the appropriate reverence for his fellow band mates is probably where my only real fault with him at this point I think that he has been disrespected for him over the years you inner personally and publicly, which again makes me happier that at least he instills of seemed to patch things up now. So when we look at all these guys together, I mean look as. We've shown I, think in this series, this band is like so full of drama and intrigue, and you don't get that without this unique mix of personalities and talents you know San was already combustible on its own but then you add why to the mix and it just like just blew everything sky high and I know for me personally it's been a blast digging into the history of this band and I'm just so glad that we've had the music in. The madness absolutely sometimes at the end, these episodes we try to figure out whether these artist should be together shouldn't be together and you know in this case I think I'm torn as much as I love the music they made together sometimes i. think maybe I should be a part but I love the music just too much. Maybe maybe I'm the Stephen Stills in the scenario, I just can't quit them I don't want them to quit each other. Well, it's. Been Fun getting wasted on the way with you Jordan on this journey. But like I feel that, it's probably time for us to talk about a different rivalry other than what exists in the CSM waiver. So if we next week, we're going to be heading out out of this place at a different revelry and we can't wait to do it. So thank you again for listening to this episode, we'll have more beef and rivalries and long simmering resentments next week. Rivals. Production of iheartradio. The executive producers are shontae tone and Noel Brown the supervising producers, Taylor chicane and trysted McNeil The producers Joel Hat Staff. Jordan run talk I'm Steven Hyden if you like what you heard, please subscribe leave us a review for more podcast for my heart radio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Steven Admired Neil neil Neil Young Stephen Stills Shakey Stephen Crosby Nash David Crosby neal Buffalo Springfield Bruce Neil Neil youngest Springfield Buffalo CNN Jimmy McDonough Neil Bolts Neil Pontiac David Canada Graham Nash
David Crosby and Cameron Crowe, 'Remember My Name'

Popcorn with Peter Travers

23:26 min | 1 year ago

David Crosby and Cameron Crowe, 'Remember My Name'

"Hi everybody I M Peter Travers this popcorn where I tell you what's happening at the movies and there's a movie now called David Crosby remember. My name like that was ever an issue really only for me that I don't think that is the whole power behind. This movie is my friend Cameron Crowe here who basically isn't the director but he is the producer and he did you see the back of his head in this movie a lot. You know asking this guy questions and I want to really find out the abuse that you were handed by him to really happen. We see a little of it but really there had been born and himself. David the crisis was thrilled to have you here. Things like this is really great leaving. We're both honored to be here. We wanted all that honor has now disappear. Don't does the biggest pain in the ass in the making not me I am probably I have a p._H._d.. In pain in the ass I think you certainly give yourself one. I did give them some tough. You know because that's kind of my nature. I'm a little feisty you know but I don't think anybody really was a pain in the ass and making the film A._J.. was persistent. He's really determined guy and he really will get it done. He's very determined to get it done. That's one of the things we like most about him. We'll see when we say that he's going to get done what's happening. You're you're there. You're not giving him him what they want. Oh no I've given him everything the whole time. I'm seeing the qualities that made it actually happened. He's known me since he's fifteen. He knows where he sold for Cameron. He was there. He's already been in the business for for five years. So he knew upfront he what he brought to this is a he's a consummate foam maker and be he knew me left right and center. He knows where all the bones are buried. He was in the WHO's in the dressing room. When we had that argument whatever went on he was then okay so the two of them and I had what you call a unity of purpose we we completely agreed about the level that we wanted to approach the thing which is rare in any project music or yeah? We did agree completely. We wanted to not do shine job. We didn't want to just say oh he kit because it's I'm not I'm not cute. I'm there are some people that might go in innocently to this movie thinking that you are well. God blessed to that when we didn't WANNA do it. We wanted to show you the truth about a human being as closely as we possibly could without any reservations association's on it at all no no. We'll just cover that we we all felt like that yeah union unit unanimity just complete. We all agreed to level because we didn't want to do the kind kind of shine job that most of the documentaries are well even within if you did even if it was just you going over the highlights of your career. That would still be some movie. The fact is there's no. <music> buttering anybody jokes at all thinking if this was me and it was remember my name I think we have to have that moment you notice. He used my phrase butter. He's in the I've heard to use that was you that was me I thought issue turn on the candidate. I have no right to do that. I really thrilled not here. You use my phrase because I think that's a great way to see didn't didn't tell me what he thought. I wanted to hear. He wasn't you know polishing. My apple makes him angrier. If somebody is trying to do that that would if they were saying. Maybe maybe don't don't generally like it. I like it. If you talk to me. Straight yeah which is one of the things that we have is he like I said he was there. He knows and when he doesn't pull his punches at all neither this A._J.. And that that was that degree of honesty made me fully confident about do the two of you get together on this particular project because he do in two A._J.. Eaten and David and just went into them as you will. It was J.J Abrams office because we were doing our hit showtime series roadies and we ran into to Iran's David in in our friendship and and H._a.. And they were talking about doing a documentary and immediately you know they were like Oh. Come on board with us the my again. We're doing this thing and everything but and I saw David's is that he was ready talk like he wanted to go there in this film and I said first of all as a fan when I watched this thing. I don't want to see a lot of talking heads. Forgive me but like you don't need a lot of people just put the him and you get them. Mike Him Warmly have him look like pretty much into the camera and cut out all middlemen <hes> David tells you about his life the way he would if you knew him for a while and it was a late night and you just ask them all the questions he wanted to ask him and so I said well I'll just do the first interview and have it enjoy it. You know he's the best interview ever and and I just kept interviewing him until I had to be in the show with them and that was a great day but when was the first time that you interviewed him it it had to be seventy four. I got an assignment from craw Daddy magazine to write about crosby stills Nash and young and they were opening their big tour and I've been dreaming of interviewing David as a young journalist and I interviewed him at our friend Joe Bernstein's house which was also Graham Nash next door and he just was so gracious and I had so many questions and he sat for every one of them. I'm like fifteen and he's he's saying. What else do you want to know? What else do you WanNa know he was? I was grieving over. My girlfriend's death like I'm fifteen going. David Crosby is telling me the most intensely personal trust me and I just always interviewed reviewed him every possible chance since and up until now that's all he asked of me was that I'd be honest but all taking him to Laurel Canyon he didn't want to go come on. We're not we're GONNA do that. Are you and wound up really well. Meanwhile everybody's talking about Laurel Canyon like we had to go to Laurel Canyon. He's like Oh. You're not GonNa make me stand on the steps of the country store. Thank Linda fries started. Started the eagles my God you have to Oh plea and this is what we put in the film when he those moments where he says things like there's no cinematic value in this whatsoever and he turns his back on the camera to save certainly yes he came in grump and he got me totally caught me being a grump absolutely then we get him to go in the Laurel Canyon country store which is really the citadel of that whole period as it exists Nessie. I see this is what you get so he walks in and he's looking kind of poetic and I go cross you know what did this place represent to you and he goes. You should see in the movie he goes. What did it represents the place where we came to get the grocery walks off camera and deal harasses the per poor person behind the counter but then he turns and he starts seeing these pictures including the doors which he has a little thing to say about the doors but Peter he goes outside and sits at the table and says the most intimate stuff of the entire interview series but that's because you asked me those question you you're just proud of it because you managed to produce at the store that's right 'cause he could've asked it? Somewhere wouldn't have been picture wouldn't have been a good shot at all so it had to get asked in the right place. I guess so for you to respond to tell me he knows what he's doing. I I am saying that it can learn the hard way because see he has kind of a baby face and you kind of trust and that could really read you up the wrong road but no it didn't because well can we show a little cook. There's there's a clip of you because what I love when you get into what you're doing whether you're excited by somebody or not excited that is there's something in you that gets kind of possessed by what it is in here in this clip slipped we have you're talking about culture fantastic. I looked pretty silly but it's funny. You look excited by what what you're talking about the movie we didn't know how to start the movie and we just decided decided one day that we were going to start at ninety miles an hour the story right all right well. Let's take a little peek at this and then inducted in the men's room. I got my head against his Pew Green Tile. I can still remember the color of the tile okay. It's going to be right now to get it together. Now going to be okay. Somebody kicks the door Bam. It's train. He's kicked the door open because he's in playing at the most intense level you could ever imagine in your life. He never stopped soloing he still soloing and he's hitting the thousand mark. You know he's like burning. I never heard anybody it'd be more intense would be than in my life in that little bathroom tile I see yeah. That's a guy who loves music. I do love music. I hope so because you keep doing well what you see. There is the effect the John Coltrane me one of the greatest musicians of our time right and he had at that time is quintessential band unbelievably fine to bass player's probably the one of the greatest keyboard players who ever lived on McCoy tyner and I just stunningly good right and the effect that they had on me was like that it was I was very high. Yeah I'll admit but they were the consummate champion they were unbelievably good and and I was wide open to it I walked in wide open and they laid me they'd just yeah I wasn't that impressed and yes it went down like that. He did walk into the bathroom and he absolutely scared me to death. I didn't know what I completely lost my mind for a minute there. My brain ran out of puddle on the floor. Did you ever meet him. Did you ever get to meet him. No never did wish I had a metre miles yeah but will you did kind of Meat Coltrane. I in this woman the moment the tile the weights describe see that's everything that's like two short story writing as well as the two movie and it's everything else that's happening that you don't see very often a lot of talking ahead movies and then I wrote this and then basically they do the talking heads thing so they can use everybody's name in the advertising I spoke energy but we see that it affected you in a way as of yet or what it was that she saw and experienced and that everything that's learning. That's anything in no matter how long you've been doing this. I think it's a pretty match on film. Yeah it really is this is the gift that he can tell a story like that and we we take take a little time to stay with him and not cut to somebody else and you see his thought process. We'll talk about like you're not here and he he listens and reveals the story that he's just told you so if you keep the camera on him and we end the movie on a moment like this he's he's thinking about what he just said and going back and he doesn't dwell in the past that much this is kind of thing where we got him to actually go back there and think about all this again and you see him reliving. Did you resist any of it because it's very you're very very frank about everything that went on in that alienating basically every musician he worked with the that happened if I was gonna if I was going to resist it would have resisted in front when I when I told A._J.. And Cameron I'm committed to this at that point I in my heart I committed myself to being completely honest and drawing no lines anywhere because if they're willing to take their time and and give it to me. I'm not going to give them less than one hundred percent and and I think and I think it works you know. I think we were lucky as hell but I I think the result on film is really unusual to see on film. You don't normally see that degree of reality. There has to be a degree of pain in remember. There is basis. It's it's hard to be naked in public it. Is You know especially you're not real good looking but when you talk about what's painful in in a lot of not just rock documentaries but any kind of story of somebody that does it. It becomes glamorous yeah and with you. It's not you know the the years in jail the drugs the things that almost kill you. I you say this was I screwed up this is how could you read it any other way. I wasted years of time times the final currency man it's your it's what you have here is a little bit of time and for me to waste the amount of time. Rounded I wasted just getting smashed yeah. I got to be able to look at that and say no. That was a total mistake. I'm put here to make music. That's obvious with the myth. Is that that period where you know you're carried away by whatever of a drug you happen to favor at that moment that that's when you do your best work. That's what people believe now and it's not true drugs hard drugs absolutely get in the way of the creative process do not help at all and the mortar hard drugs. I did the less I wrote until I stopped writing completely than a stop. The drugs by going in prison woke up and started writing again. Now I can only draw one computers conclusion from that. The drugs were inhibiting being because the more drugs I did so. Let's I wrote. The drug. Use Curve went up like this. The writing curve went right down at the same rate. I stop writing. I stopped doing drugs reading comes right back up. What can you draw from that that the drugs were hurting the writing they were getting in the way of the writing and that they do get in the way of the writing and don't help it at all? They didn't help at all pot helps. psychedelics probably helped hard drugs absolutely not their destroyers of creativity in music and art in every way they do nothing good at all. What was the moment that really hit for you where you said? I'm not doing this anymore. I they had fled the law. I was already. I was already a fugitive. I failed to show up and I'd fled WH- gone back to touchstone the boat really loved that boat and I was laying on the Decca that boat and thinking and it was <hes> straight you know didn't have any money and had to look at everything. I finally just gave up. I just there's a you know if you go to a meeting so tell you there's a you have a moment the clarity that's what they call it and there is a moment and you do surrender and I went and I surrender and in that surrender you were able to say to yourself okay no more although being in jail now it's kind of helping in therapies made it possible yeah they didn't help me at all but they absolutely made where there was no drugs and I had to sober up and so I woke up in jail cell in Texas in prison in a serious honest to God real actual balls machine guns barbed wire prison and you know the truth. If I had to choose between going back to being a junkie or going back and spend an end of the year in prison I go back to prison. Junkie is prison. You carry around with you. You don't get to get out junkie only ends one of four ways you die. You go crazy you go to jail or you quit. The only those four possibilities reverse order the dying would be ending everything. I was a very good candidate for that very close. I had read something you had said about running into David Yeah at a period where it was a low point for him. Yeah what was that circumstance. He was playing a benefit. offit with Annan Nancy Wilson at the Santa Monica High School right and it's a great thing that they did every year where where they played with the high school musicians and <hes> <hes> cross played a set that was fantastic with high school musicians and I was so anxious to see him in seen him in a while. I went backstage after he was depleted. Wasn't there was not present. He'd given everything in this performance barely recognized me it kind of tore my heart out because the last thing he said to me was safe travels my friend and I watched him walk away and I thought would various this other. People have thought along the path of crosses life. That's the last time I see him. I won't see him again and as he turned that corner that's the last image I'm never have of this guy. That's meant so much to me. Next time I saw him. He was the energizer <music> bunny he was back and and and I've never seen that kind of turnaround <hes> and and that was happening what was happening. I think part of it if I may answer for you for a moment because this was a turning point in the film was his marriage he's got one of the greatest love stories in his life with his wife Jen and those two together are powerhouse and think I think that's how you turn that stuff around one of the main parts I I did you have to go through the pain of quitting and I did have to get locked up to do it. I'd tried I think five times and treatment failed so it did have I did have to do do do time in prison to do it but I don't think I'd be alive without Chandy. Jam Is my best friend and that comes across and we've been together forty two years that doesn't that by accident. You got to really work at it. You gotTa really care about the thinking she can call you. When you're when she has to absolutely yeah didn't want to do an interview for us and then one day you she's always you? She just trust you. Mentioned doesn't trust people. She Bluer mind every moment in the editing room when we when we had her. She's a good soul and you can see you. Could you could definitely did she make your hat. She did make heard that she's famous for those and look at that. That's a work of art what she's really famous famous for itself so she makes the best south on the planet. We'll see I didn't have the hope for that but if you come to feed you some of that had salsa we'll summertime though because that's when we gets a tomato well then I don't want it when it's horrible hothouse thing that nobody wants to eat. No you have to try it. It's the best you'll ever this show always ends in song and you know here is David Crosby and then he should actually be doing some little snippet of a song that he feels represents you to him in music but I could see his face and what it was. It's really the most perfect thing you can do for him. But you have to give me some semblance of a song to end this show I do you do who are the men who who really run this land and why do they run in with such a thoughtless hand what are their names and on what streets do who then live on like two right right over the S- afternoon and give them a piece of Burma about peace for mankind.

David David Crosby Cameron Crowe Laurel Canyon Peter Travers David Yeah John Coltrane Mike Him Pew Green Tile Abrams Burma director producer Chandy Graham Nash Texas apple McCoy tyner craw Daddy magazine Linda fries
Missi Matthews Returns to Heinz Field, Remembering Woodstock, Bert at the Drive-In

Randy Baumann and the DVE Morning Show

2:42:13 hr | 7 months ago

Missi Matthews Returns to Heinz Field, Remembering Woodstock, Bert at the Drive-In

"I'm Jamie Boorda's at borders some borders we understand that our nation is undergoing very challenging times due to the coronavirus. We know that you may need help many things now more than ever including your legal rights were committed to join all the we to remain available to those who need our help we can use technology to communicate with you and accommodate safe manner. You can call us at eight eight, eight four justice or go to our website border slob dot com to start the process may use the healthy and may God bless you and your family mortis and Boorda's fighting for justice. And Music News the case between spirit and led. Zeppelin. Over accusations that Jimmy Page ripped off parts of the Song Taurus for us in stairway, to heaven. Will Not die the estate of Spirits Randy California Wolf has filed a petition with the Supreme Court can't they just give them some money I mean for all of like even just be like look guys I I? Don't want to keep doing the here's some just take some money. Okay. I'm sorry. I don't know it sounds pretty similar I. Agree we might have stolen it but I'm not gonNA. Admit. Randy Bowman and the DVD morning show. It is the morning show good morning everybody val is off today. Bill and I. Hold down the fort and just jump right into some news. which is not very newsworthy. We're just doing light news today bell none none of the heavy stuff because I don't know if you've been paying attention. But. The news is having worst. Yeah. It's pretty heavy. So. Partially in an effort to deflect from that and offer people an alternative. And partially, because we're too lazy to really get into writing up serious news stories. Here's some not so serious news for you. The latest fat in Hollywood bill it's kind of a cool one it's beekeeping. My girlfriend desperately wants to start doing this, which is telling since I am deathly allergic to bees. She's trying to kill you. Clearly a lot of celebrities are in Aaron Paul. Oh. Yes. Afi Sophia Bush. Jennifer Garner Morgan Freeman. It's the march of the Bees Leonardo di Caprio David Beckham. Chris Hemsworth in Samuel. L.. Jackson. Put these mother FNB's on. My mother FDR. Turn. Samuel L. Jackson Turns Scarlett Johansson onto it. Beekeeping. has picked up during the pandemic since people have more time on their hands. They certainly do La's a great place to do it. Is there's no winter. So you get honey all year long you're also helped by money so. I will never have enough time to. Start wondering or start enquiring about the acquisition and maintenance of bees not going to happen for me. Right. Very strange stuff going on. With everybody getting into that I don't know. Exactly. How Somebody started eating honey. Is that is a ballsy person. No doubt yeah. Paulsen used to have bees and I respect the game I'll just ask like. Can I have some of your honey instead of. Where I'll go buy some. You know. They make great honey I mean you know He's getting jar farmers market. Thanks. Yeah. They say you're supposed to eat local honey because that helps you. Become. Immune to local allergies. I don't know how much money you have to eat for that to actually have a profound effect. Here's my question. Why is why is honey's? Sold in the form of a bear and not in the form of be. Because I think, the bears are the ones who discovered it was good. Because bear united mean they're like, yeah like you know Winnie the Pooh. But isn't it kind of like Christopher Columbus discovering America like like honey was already there Eating. Honey Bees. You might be right. It might be time to take down the bear statues. were making the statue of us just fill it with like it like fill. A. Pudgy Dude. where a plastic pudgy dude with with honey. That's yeah. Maybe not a bad way to do even for the honey container enough for the Statue Yeah Yeah I mean again I, think be bears can withstand like beast things don't even get through their skin. Yeah. So they're just annoyed by them like you know. That has to be the way we found honey was good. Well, they're willing to get stung by hive of bees must be good stuff. There's your honey news for the day MacAulay culkin seriously funny guy a quick look at his twitter with that a website recently rounding enough several examples of his twitter humor folks as I said, non hard hitting news this morning. Here's some MacAulay Culkin tweets. If you read the Bible in reverse, it's about the world's population killing each other until there's only two people left and then a woman pukes apple and they both get naked. I like. I like flowers because their grass that put on a fancy hat. That MacAulay Culkin? Hey. Dollar. Is a riot. You might be thinking we're on the verge of an authoritarian regime here in our country is falling apart and a cold civil war is turning pretty warm pretty fast. Why aren't you talking about that? Because MacAulay Culkin's twitter is amazing folks. That's why. I just woke up and saw that I was trying to can someone explain what's going on? Did I die again Oh Macaulay you card I feel bad for all the burglars. You'd never have the confidence to rob a house on Christmas. Thanks to me. A cared. I love fog because it's the closest I'll ever get to being hugged by a cloud. Okay. Is that MacAulay culkin being funnier MacAulay culkin being high. Macaulay Culkin is. High. All the time. Yeah, all the time. What's the male equivalent of a Karen? Named Karen. Going through a rough patch it's become the Term for woman. I'd like that it's become the generic term for woman who wants to talk to the manager and typically will call the cops on people of color enjoying themselves in public spaces without breaking laws. But what is the male equivalent people have tried different names Darren sure Greg Ken, Keith Nothing's really stuck. So one guy on read it. decided to use data to figure it out. He mapped out different men's naming trends over the past seventy years to find baby named followed. The same path is Karen. Rising through the fifties peaking in the late fifties dropping steadily to almost become extinct in two thousand, ten's. The answer. Terry. To. Terry. Terry. The name actually I was GONNA say Larry I was GONNA say don't be a Larry. Would've been close. The name Terry's followed almost the exact same popularity cycle as the named Karen since nineteen fifty. So at least by that measure Terry. Is the male Karen. So remember. Karen's out there. You have help. Not, just from Terry's. But you have help. From other Cairns. So you don't have to go super hard every day. Karen, you don't have to Karen every day. Devi caring. Jared yourself own own. You don't have to call the cops on that. Nice. Black Man. He's just trying moas law. Karen. Start Strangling, the manager he's just doing John. You got to wear a mask while you're chewing up in speeding out all your Kohl's Kadosh Aaron with the BLOM. Had A long day of. Oriental entitles you. To take just more. On. This many things to rage. The next day. Caring. Need to carry. Two Asian who she didn't bring the virus here to do job. Her parents are from Fresno cheese only. Karen. skippy ANTIBAC- Bro Test Drop your sign that blames Bill Gates over Nineteen and accuses him of tracking you through his back seen. Karen with the Blonde. A. One's attitude. Maybe it's time. To. This one. In those nine, one on readers, bree. Karen you don't need to tear. Today. Jared your kids. A SELF-APPOINTED SHERIFF WHO? Over hey everyone. Count. More, caring. More each day. Carrying you don't need to Karen. Karen. Just stop. Beagles it's the DVD e morning show on this day. One year ago yesterday, we were having such a good time. Things were different. We were outside socially this instinct before it was cool at the Miracle League Park with Sean Casey and comedian. Paul virzy and this was one of my favorite moments from that show I just wanted to replay it this morning with Sean Casey. He in palm hit it off. You know right away. And we figured they would and Of course, he starts asking about you know the Yankees and He immediately launched into the story about facing more Rivera with a hangover. It's classic. Sean Casey Live for Miracle League field last year at this time. DV. Opponent you felt like when when opponents going to Yankee stadium the you feel that. You can mediate time. That was the one thing like when you go into Boston. And you're going to Yankee Stadium. It's usually go to the stay like this is so different. You feel how different is you feel how amazing is and you know I mean just the history you feel the history do I haven't really spent a lot of new Yankee stadium. Do you still feel there? So when I was a little when I was a little kid growing up, I didn't know the Yankees in nineteen, eighty six, it was the mets right and I'm like eight years old. So me my friends were just cheering for the mets and I remember being out to dinner with my mom and stepfather, and they gotta take him to a game and my stepfather looked at my mother goes if you. To the Yankee game and I I was like Yankee. What's that? And then I walked in and that's the old fissile like it was all concrete and then you walk through the tunnel and then the grass and it was don mattingly. Don Mattingly. Bad. We were bad in the eighties but it was don mattingly. So then for me, that was this new stadium when you walk in, you could see Sushi. If you see like Sushi and a and popcorn as you said, it's not it takes something away getting dragged roll. Dragon role in the seventh inning stretch. I have soy sauce something. Supposed to have crowd and a hot dog. It definitely takes it. Takes Away Marian Rivera coming out game set match was my favorite thing ever was watching mood I've got one of the great stories about my Yankee Stadium One. My GIG was with no I'm not playing that day to day game to getaway day and I'm like us cool pet it's on the mound I think Detroit's league down with Mike is Great. So nine hundred was like, Hey, case you're up, you're leading off against hold on. Knowing that you had the day off the next day I'm guessing Saturday night you. Couples took. A couple. Before and I'm like guys a perfect data and walked over. I, think I've across a couple of hot dogs taste. Of Feel good. I finally comes in. Case you're up against Rivera lead off the night I thought I had the day off. He's the last guy I wanna face because I know that cutters going to come in just either hit me in the stomach or blow up my back. So, I, get in. This is my game plan I. got you know it's coming you. Here comes it's at fifty five feet. It looks like a more see. He must have thrown me the only four steamer in the last twelve years. Foresee right when I swing starts like chasing me like. This is what happened. Swear to God so far so I'm like Bush. Pitch I'm like I'm going cut. The Bucket Trying, just get to the cutter. So I go so here he comes it's coming go same thing same story Must be a four seamer, fifty five. So I step in the park. I go to and it starts chasing me Paulie I'm like Oh, my God. This. Hurt catch it right here. I hit. furthest. Ball ever hit almost hit it out of Yankee Stadium over there dugout. That hitting you ever hit a ball. All. I got. So the next paycheck go save players that worked out. Good so to. One. Same step on the bucket and try do that again because that really worked he throws me sink right even know we had. You seem her I'm in. Seventeen hop right to. It on my thanks a lot. Chad. That's such a great story. I. Had Fred. mcgriff my podcast. He said like if you would like to unlike Nolan Ryan let Nolan Ryan. He said he would do this thing where he would get the ball and he would just stare at you when you read I. and. He goes. You would just stare at you first and you were like Oh man. That's actually crazy like on precise that those guys could hurt you the ball like you're you're thinking and Fred mcgriff said, we're in the buck who can't act like we're thinking scare. This guy could kill me you. Crazy. Sorry that I turned us into me. Dude. I ask Robin Ventura. Honestly. What what what were you thinking when you went out to get Nolan? He goes out seeking God is a bad idea. Out there, this is so. He. got like. Five Times. Has Anybody gone out and this? Sounds. So Italian but has anybody walked to the mound with the Bat Batman. Bring the Louisville. A Man's Candy I. Get. That'd be a forty sketches proof. Yeah. Chart. Why these? Banks. have. Already. League. Aware. Paul Burs was John Casey there on our show last year live Miracle League. Field Bercy is the best he's got a new podcast. Dude. I. Call It. It's Not about things that they called Dude I, knew I called it. Of course the Great Sean Casey. Mike. Scott Your sports we come back tough week in for the pirates tougher for the reds probably but Brutal, for the buck goes and the NFL so far. So good Mike numbers look pretty encouraging thus far of course even started at any team on team contact but. They seem to be grasping the concept of the bubble in possibly learning from MLB's mistakes. Gear on mute. Now, we're not getting there. Yeah. Okay. We'll fix Mike's Microphone and when we come back heel elaborate on expounded what we were just talking about their without hearing him that's next year on the DVD show. DVD. Sports. Going on at Heinz field today guys the shoulder pads scheduled to come on the. Training Camp Twenty twenty such as it is should begin to look sound and feel much more like a traditional training camp even though the steelers are doing it at Heinz field and not saint. Vincent. College we have had the virtual meeting Cova testing period. We've had the acclimation period. We've had the gradual ramp up period today league-wide the contact integration period and steelers intend to those shoulder pads to good use but they also intend to proceed with caution. Here's head coach Mike Tomlin. You know that's our intent. But. We're also willing to adjust based on what it is that we see from a staffing standpoint we're very thoughtful about long term planning or not doing. So getting familiar with the level of conditioning these guys come into us in and getting a feel for the ability to take in retain information that was delivered to them. Remotely are are two. Of the key bearable determined the pace in which we move as though those are our intentions but look we're willing to adjust based on what transpires between now, and then industrially our mentality about this this next month. So we realized a certain boxes that need to be checked between now and when we step into the stadium, but we also realized that we Mike. Boorda's at board. Helped hundreds of people who've been wrongfully treated by insurance companies whether it's an auto claim a homeowner's claim where life insurance clean you pay good money to protect your family. When something bad happens insurance company should keep their promise if they don't. We'll make them pay for their betrayal. Go to our website, Boorda's law dot com twenty, four hours a day seven days a week or give us a call. Boorda's and Boorda's fighting for justice. Pro. Plug in that tank, we deliver propane straight to extend your. Went through. That's pro pain taxi paying taxes Dot Com let's cook in this weekend. If grilling is your plan, then make it easy on yourself. Go to propane taxi dot com enter Promo Code bbq Ten for ten dollars I barbecue tank exchange delivered to your door. It's that easy with propane taxi. So you can focus on family friends and fun at the alter the pace of some of those intended plans based on the readiness or lack thereof. Now we'll see how ready they are starting saying. They're also ramping up zoom schedule We're going to start hearing from about four five players. And or coaches a day maybe more. So off the next couple of weeks, it's going to be all steelers all the time and. I'm ready for that. It's it's been a while. Mike Be Careful what you ask the players because they will walk out on the zoom call we saw that in the first star knocks. Now the good news is that hopefully one of the media relations guys can wrangle them and bring them back but just be careful. Boy. That was. Jailed Ramsey, who you thought he was isn't he? Well guys I know. For those who don't know what those guys are talking about on the first episode of hard knocks. Jalen Ramsey is asked do is it important to have your contract down before the season starts and he says my agent will take care of the with team like, yeah. But is it important to you and he's like you know what I gave you answer I'm Outta here, and then he walks out of the zoom call and all the reporters are just sitting there. and. Then he came back and complain a little bit more about it. I feel like I've heard guys say that a million times though. You know. I'm not worried about it. I can't worry about things I can't control I'm just here to play football I'm just here to play baseball I'm just here to play hockey, but we all know it's super important to them. They don't want it hanging over their head going into the season. That's funny in about fifteen years of hard knocks. You could probably count the guys who come off looking bad on one hand I mean it's The, the format almost leads itself to the player looking like he's a pretty cool guy in a relaxed setting. He's just like like you think you know he's just a regular guy and. Some guys come off like arrogant jerks and you know. Jill Ramsey side that going for wildlife very good player. Yeah. Well, Mike. It's a PR machine setup by the NFL to make players and coaches look good I mean, it's literally designed. To make them look at it reminds me of when the Eagles did a documentary and they had full say over what was in the documentary and still came out looking like complete a halts like Don Don. Henley. Glenn Fry look like the biggest jerks on the world and they're the ones who did the the documentary there the executive producers Look No. Yeah that's fun. Oh, I look like a complete tyrant right there. Keep that in. This thing that's good I like that. It's this is supposed to help you. Maybe that's one of the reasons why the steelers. Do it but. It's I didn't run was episode two last night because that a Sunday night thing. I believe Tuesday. Okay I didn't see it if it was long it's on Tuesday that would explain why. I didn't see the pirates long weekend Cincinnati got off to a relatively promising start but in the end, it didn't go as planned here skipper. Derek Shelton. Well the the immediate reaction is you know obviously concern because of the fact that somebody has tested positive and regardless if it's you know one of your own players or somebody else your concern for for that player and for their group, and then after that, you just have to start to be aware of the contact that you know possibly as adamant your group and then the one great thing about our testing, our ability to test as we immediately tested the next day and we got the results back last night. So just just basically following the protocol but the initial reaction is regardless of you know anybody that that gets it. You feel you know concern for them and hope they're okay. Now the pirates games on Saturday and Sunday in Cincinnati were postponed due to a reds player coming up with a positive covert test. There was some thought that they would play a doubleheader today since both teams are off but Major League baseball ultimately decided that wasn't going to happen either so they're still waiting to reschedule the games against the reds It was announced over the weekend that the makeup's from the August tenth through Twelfth Series in Saint Louis that was last Monday through Wednesday all those games were postponed because of the cardinals Cova issues those have been rescheduled now, the two teams will play a doubleheader on August the twenty seventh. And then that's in St Louis and then these September the eighteenth. Pirates Cardinal single-game has now been turned into a double header that's in the middle of a four game series in Pittsburgh. So presumably the pirates will be the home team and the first game of the cars will be the team. In the second game. And that's now a five game series. Baseball's had some issues but seemingly working around them and through them I don't know what the saturation point would be. Cardinals got a lot of doubleheaders rest of the way. So. Hope they got on answers. They've got a lot. I think the Marlins is still have some ground makeup to Mike I'm not mistaken. For the most part is the proceeding. On. Every day and there's a whole bunch of games on. Yeah. No, there's. There's no doubt I mean Cincinnati. Having that Hiccup Saint Louis seems to have the biggest issues but. It's just weird because once like Atlanta has played. Twenty three games. And they're in second place to the Marlins who are nine and six. Like yeah. It's a little strange and I'm not sure how that's all going to even out. To Lewis has only four and four. On the season I mean, that's randy difference. Right in in terms of how many games I've played at one point, they missed sixteen games in a row. Think it also should be noted that they've only played eight games and still have won as many as the pirates. Parts of play more than they. Actually. Played eighteen or four four. Hockey from yesterday the islanders speak to caps and overtime. They're up three games to none Wa. and. Dallas and Calgary tied at two games apiece after a five to four stars win in overtime yesterday Chicago staved off elimination with a three one win over Vegas Gold nightstop three games to one PHILLY has two games to one lead on the Canadians after winning one to nothing last night and Saint Louis finally got his first win of the restart a three to two over the connects in overtime. Vancouver still leads that series two games to one interesting development in Vegas where the or I should say in that series wherein Edmonton. The Blackhawks and Golden Knights played back to back games this weekend that met that the the Golden Knights dusted off. Marc. Andre. Fleury to start in goal in game three on Saturday came up with a two to one victory Marc Andre Fleury brought a boatload of playoff experienced that Vegas net for game three against the Blackhawks but still not quite impervious to the old Marc Andre Fleury nerves. Yeah you know allows law will nervous little butterflies before. Game Updates Tony, gains, and really. Yeah. I think I. I don't know as years an extra unsal to andled things may be better than I used to when I was younger and. Still still still hockey and the game mental art and you know could go up to. Those those big and. Sometime it just tried to stop one bucket at a time when shot at a time and walked out. All right. Defensive Nate Schmidt with them on the podium doing the Vegas was. Flurry says he's really you get nervous like you've been doing this forever. How could you get done? But if your contract Florida fan I mean, he was great an ear to ear like you always says, he was goofing around Schmidt said something very complimentary bottle but he got all sheepish that kind of gave a little punched him in the shoulder a little bit like thank you would. Just, you guys not changed and that the victory was his eightieth. Career playoff victory on. Saturday. For Vegas. At tied Ken Dryden for six on the NHL's all-time. List of postseason wins by a tender. It's impressive. He's happy. He's a fact up and Matt Murray is on the way out or so it seems and young to nine. Every penguins could get him back. Sports they're badly we'll talk with misty matthews. We'll get back into the NFL talk with missy from steelers dot com also celebrating fifty one years. Since since three days of peace love and Music Woodstock the anniversary August fifteen through the eighteenth. So we'll do our first tribute to woodstock when we come back Three. Of Woodstock. Three days of peace love and Claudia. Okay. Nineteen sixty, nine, of course. August fifteenth to August Eighteenth. So we're in the midst of those those three days and we're GONNA. Pay, homage. To some of the cooler points that happened at Woodstock one of my favorites is crosby stills and Nash playing their second ever Gig after they had formed. On the dawn of the break-up of the Birds Buffalo Springfield and Graham Nash leaving the Hollies Graham Nash walked into David, Crosby's apartment where he was rolling a joint while laying on his back on a couch and talking with Graham Nash kept eye contact with the whole time and was picking we'd off of stems and then. Then crumbling it all into a paper but never took his eyes off Graham Nash probably because he was super high already and then roll the joint. Graham. Nash said it was the most amazing thing that he's ever witnessed. In his life. A blind guy doing it is he never looked and you roll the perfect joint. And then he introduced him to Stephen Stills at a party at Peter Tork. House Peter. Tork from the monkees. Stephen Sales have been working on a lot of songs. Because Buffalo Springfield had just broken up and he started playing one I. Think it was you don't have to cry which ended up on CSM's for Salman's like here's a song I wrote and he and David, crosby and Graham Nash. Harmonize together Graham. Nash takes the High Harmony and the MEL does there from the beginning and they said they started laughing. About, ten seconds in because they couldn't believe what their voices sounded like boom. They were supergroup right? There are. Rightly, I WANNA play one GIG with Joni Mitchell opening up in Chicago and their second GIG. Woodstock the second time they would ever play together and the iconic performance of Sweet Judy Blue Eyes. Would forever go down as one of the seminal moments of the most important festival in American Music History Jodi have that ready to go. Here, it is live on stage for the second time together ever in front of half a million people, CSM DV. To. Pass. The A. You want you. Make It. A. Little less. With said. They have. Led the past. What Are Not now. Dream. Man. watch you. Now, you are free. I. This does not mean. Off. The yes. Plays yours you mind. What you saw. Being inside side. Is Timing that. Josse. Used to. Sneak. Risk the lock. The key zoo. Yes and love you. You. You are what? Make It. A. Kit. PA. What have you got to? To. Ma. got. got. A. Lot. A Play. What have I. got you. Yukon see. on. Saturday. Jay. What do you got? To. A Move. Just Not Brown. Protests. Saying Down? ME. Around Asking me says, she's free. Catch. Uh. Change My. mind. Doc. Off. Also. Not Bad I the time in front of an audience dad crosby stills Nash, and their second ever. Performance. In front of a half million people woodstock, it's the anniversary of Woodstock fifty one years since three days of. Peace love and crabs, and we'll have more for you this morning. Remembering the most important music festival in American music history. Plus News coming look they ran out of my. Out of crabs at one point at the governor's was everything. Was Gone by the third day. That's right. Well, people were bringing them in from New York City. Had A. Car. Yeah the the bring bikes. Got Them there. All right. Well, have news. We come back missy matthews talking steelers later this morning and more review in Woodstock plus bill was at the Bert Kreischer, show this weekend. So we'll review the Bert Kreischer show for an produce for Alex Smith. In the NFL, the NBA are here it's Randy Bamut of course, from the morning show Fan, Bill sportsbook in partnership with Valley. Forge has a slam dunk offer for you. You won't WanNa Miss Right now new users can get special plus two thousand odds on any team to make the NBA finals just pick any team and bet ten bucks for your chance to win two hundred if they make, it's pretty good. It's offers even available on favorites like the bucks in the Lakers I, mean the ball's in your court. You know look. I'm I don't know how you don't throw ten bucks on the Lakers or even the bucks for that matter I mean is Annetta Pro Addenda Kunpho. I was screw up his name. US shirts not a huge thing in Pittsburgh, but for ten bucks get into it, and if you picked correctly, fans will give you your payout in as little as twenty four hours. It's easy to use the. There's a whole bunch of different deposit options. Fan Duel is a brand you can trust and there's a million different types of bats. You can bet after the game already started live betting and all kinds of props for every game available and they always. 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In two thousand and four Brittany filed the S J be revocable trust to protect her multi-million dollar assets and said her kids up for the future Britney was put under conservative in two, thousand eight and removed as a trustee of the trust with the court appointing temporary successors. Britney reminds me of kristen wigs character and walk hard like you have to take her money away from her because she was like I wanna buy a chocolate. We told you Britney you can't. It's in the Morning. GotTa Love Brady the. Show fouls off today. So we're just GONNA half ass it with me doing the news. Let's take a look at the channel eleven weather center weather forecast. What's going on your weather center eleven? Year deal thanks Scott. Search and rescue crews. Are Continuing to search seventy, six year old woman who went missing in Ohio Pile State Park Sunday night. Woman was hiking along the fern cliff trail with her daughter. When she became separated from her according to Fayette county emergency officials, she was reported missing at nine fifty, two PM Park Rangers in the county search and rescue unit were called in to start the search. A fern cliff trail is a level one point, seven Mile Path that travels the edge of fern cliff peninsula in the park. So hopefully, they'll be able to find her soon. Yeah, it's no joke terrain out there too. So you know so many people are venturing out for the first time. I'm not suggesting that's what happened here but you know there's a lot of news stories about people going hiking and high. Oh pile for the first time seeing visitors on a level they've never had to contend with and it's really beating up the park a lot. But the other danger is inexperienced hikers. In the woods and not understanding, you know there can be some terrain it can be difficult. So you always gotta be careful and never hike alone bill. Yeah. Back when when when we went there, the family set up a nice little bike ride for us on father's Day up in Ohio and there was a a kid who Got Severely hurt I don't know if he was on the trail or in the water and they brought him up to the trail, but he had to be life flighted and. You know. It's just sorta always brings home. I mean I've got a couple of horror stories over the years of people really getting hurt or even losing their life up there in the rapids. You gotta be very careful at all times. New. Graham being broken here today as we are headed into two weeks of virtual political conventions. To nominate. The respect party's presidential candidates and try to figure out how to get their supporters all excited without crowds or the pageantry that they become accustomed to. As you know. The Democratic Party has. Nominated. Jeff Dunham's old man puppet Walter. Wow Republicans will formerly back a dust bunny stuck to a circus peanut. For. The first time ever. The Democratic, imagined spach speeches will be delivered remotely. From across. All fifty states. And seven territories instead of traditionally how it's been done in one big center location a huge arena somewhere which is. Basically filled with thousands of. Cheering supporters and adulation, and really building up this whole scene of excitement they don't have that now. Now a preview of the very weird absence of political supporters was shown this past Wednesday when Joe. Biden. At his first joint appearance with Senator Kamala Harris. As his running mate in a high school gym in. Wilmington Delaware now. The the quiet part of that does carry with its been risks of sort of tamp down the excitement for all of the parties as they headed into the election here especially for the Democratic Party, which is newly formed there with Joe Biden their ticket anyways with Joe Biden and Kamala Harris Mike. Six, twenty, four, seven, every every week kind of guy but. To me a politician can. Really. Create an image in fortune identity with a great convention speech and you can tell when you know when they get the crowd when the crowds hanging on every word and responded where they're supposed to respond Bill Clinton was a master at that. Given the big crowd speech it's it's a significant absence I mean usually the conventions who's GonNa end up running anyway it's not. There's no suspense that way but. Those. Speeches bill it's kind of like the kickoff to the the campaign. It's like the World Cup it's not all. It's not all the time it's about every four four years and. I wonder I it would be fun if they just did the convention center but didn't do the speakers like they did it like baseball where they were just cardboard cut outs in the seats. Where they had tarped off or something. Piped in. Not, a bad idea get some piped-in crowd noise. Now, the big threat about that of course, is viewers not wanting to watch it because it's not exciting. It's GONNA be people. Talking. So in order to hold their interests the Democratic Party have arranged for musical groups to perform but between the customary speeches. Of Political Luminaries this year, of course that includes former president, Barack Obama, and former. Republican. Governor of John Casick. Supporters submitted personal videos that will be played throughout the week rounding out the schedule be presentations from voters, offering perspectives from the farm factory floor or the town square, etc. So very different look to the political conventions this year, which will kick off today. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called on the House to return into session. Later this week to vote on a bill that would prevent changes to the trumpet that the trump administration's made to the postal service. Alterations Democrats say will cause a slowing of the flow of mail and potentially jeopardize the November election. Well, the president said that that's he said that's why he's doing it D- just said I'm doing this so it will slow down voting by mail Mike. And the problem is Nancy Pelosi notified by mail. So I don't think they're gonNA make it back in time to that's a tough. Senate email maybe would have been. Better plus Sunday statement said the lives livelihoods and life are American democracy are under threat from President Donald Trump last week said he opposed giving the postal service more money while at the same time acknowledging the lack of funding will hamper the office's ability to process mail unbalanced Pelosi wants the house to vote later this week on representative Carolyn Maloney delivering for America Act, which prohibits changes to postal service operations in place. In, are in place rather on January first two, thousand twenty. Senate. Minority Leader Chuck Schumer urged Senate Majority Leader Mitch. McConnell. To reconvene the Republican controlled Senate to act on Maloney's bell well, that Oughta do it i. you know he's quick to act anytime. Trucks asked him to do something in the past. I can't imagine him jumping at the chance to go back and pass one of Nancy Pelosi's bills. He loves doing that really does his favorite thing. You can't stop doing it. So many bills that guy just just. Favorite pastime bless he did not specify when the house would return it off your ass and go to work Nancy but a senior democratic aide said, it's likely lawmakers would vote Saturday. Hours before Pelosi's called returned to session congressional Democrats urged the Postmaster General the testify for a House Committee nearly a month earlier than initially requested thing the urgent hearing is needed to address dangerous changes at. The Postal Service. So the hearing is now scheduled for August, twenty for fourth, and this guy joy is going to have to explain why they are pushing these dangerous new policies that threaten to silence the voices of millions just months before the election bill. I know the the postal services. Swamped right now, and I don't know how good of an idea is at that time to be collecting mailboxes maybe we could just start. Putting mailboxes in the mail and getting those back out to their locations. Yeah I mean it's a couple of that in the mail sorters and they say they can't handle all these votes that are coming this year. Well, they've always handled them in the past and they handle way more volume at Christmas every year, and then there's the argument as to whether you view the post offices, a business that you're subsidizing that should make money for the government or a service, and it's traditionally been thought of as a service sort of people are saying it costs us two billion dollars is like the military had ten different projects they abandoned that cost us twenty billion dollars. When are they going to pay that back? When will they don't? Because it's a service to the country you know there are there's a whole bunch of things you you pay for that. The government pays for that service to the country. Now, the problem is, is the conceptualization as to whether or not you look at it like a service provided to the country so that rural parts of the country pay the same amount as people in easier logistically deliverable cities, and that's the beauty of the post office. You can be you know live way the hell out in the middle of nowhere, and it still costs fifty cents, send a letter across the country. Right. A government. Entity that that is here to serve the public bill. And we don't want the military to have to deliver the the mail. There are already they're busy, they have other things. And I. Think it'll be very expensive if you have to. Send. Your mail via fighter jet. Governor. Former head of the NSA Pittsburgh. In Hero General Mike Hayden tweeted that out that it was like saying when you complain how much the post office costs the US Postal Service it's like saying intelligence agencies cost. US. Eighty billion dollars last year they lost eighty billion you know like. It's how you choose to view it and it has been reframed I love the post office. I was up in Eerie over the weekend. Because still trying to work on my dad's estate up there and which means putting all his clothes into good well. They lost a two of their mail sorters up there. That was a huge news. Everybody's like what the hell you know I think it's just taking people by surprise right now. quickly, this is all happening. So it's GONNA be. Interesting month. And what better time to start drinking pill. Got To be careful with the wine coolers according to a new study out of Canada wine coolers can be a gateway drug because people who don't like the taste of booze drink them. All the sugar and it hides the alcohol flavor and that gets them used to booze and they transitioned over to the harder stuff much easier. Now I remember this argument when I was a kid and I didn't even know there are really wine coolers around right now I thought it was all Seltzer 's. No there's definitely wine coolers for sure. But what are they? I don't know every time I go into the liquor store I. See them. You know they're they have know wine cooler and a can watch straight wine in can like every everybody in the pandemic was putting whatever kind of liquor they made into a can wait here come get it. It's it's easily accessible. You don't have to carry around a big box or a big bottle. We'll put it in the camp for you. Yeah I'm not I don't know I'm not a fan of liquor in the canned. Pumpkin Spice Seltzer coming this fall it was more or less inevitable that the two biggest drink trends of the past few years would collide sooner rather than later bill. Pumpkin Spice Hard Seltzer. Out You. It's from a brand called. Or maybe it's five one of the eight billion brands that are now competing with white claw white. Willie no wonder you don't like this. The PUMPKIN Spice Heart Seltzer will be available in Kentucky Ohio and Tennessee to start, but it's going to expand nationwide if there's enough demand that might be a little bit much. Have you have you encountered a white claw over the pandemic? I've not truly. Any kind of Seltzer. Now, I've been drinking bud light. The pounder aluminum bottles. Okay Bud light has a seltzer. So you just back yourself into a corner. Did Not don't have to drink. Yup. Not a fan won't. You haven't drank it. So how do you know you're not a fan. Because the same way that my dad knew he didn't like Mexican food he knew. Never went to a Mexican restaurant, but he just knew he didn't like it you. Don't have to watch it I. Know I don't like it. Yeah I was like thirty when I found out to he's like I have never eaten Mexican food. I don't like it and I was like, Whoa, how can you those two statements don't coral like? Why don't you try and determine? nope. I already know don't like it. Dude sometimes Nobil Burrito and a white claw set me up. Take me right to heaven. Good News in sports to before we go to the commercial break and Michael Update us on the the pirates and the steelers. The Washington football team. I can't believe they don't have a nickname yet quarterback Alex Smith. Has Been cleared for football activity and activated off the physically unable to perform list the team is announced. This. Past Sunday a remarkable recovery. From. An injury that nearly killed him bill. Smith is now in line to be on the field. When Washington begins full padded workouts tomorrow at training camp, his wife posted a video on instagram Saturday night of his family spraying them with champagne. She wrote hard work pays off lots of celebrating the Smith House. Tonight he broke the Tibia and fibula in his right leg in a November two, thousand eighteen game against Houston, and then because of an infection, he required seventeen surgeries. Dr Were doctors worried about the possibility of being amputated but also feared for his life but he always said he was GonNa Return. And while the team officials acknowledged the massive ozzy face they always return to one comment if anyone can do it, Alex can and he has built. When I saw that he was activated yesterday I almost cried just because. I've never been like a huge Alex Smith Fan or anything I, I, knew of him I knew that he absolutely embarrassed pit in the Fiesta Bowl in two thousand and five and went first overall. But beyond that I, you know I knew that he got injured in two thousand and eighteen and I knew that it was gruesome but did you know that that? Injury happened. Okay. The the most one of the most gruesome leg injuries in the history of the NFL. It was the same injury that thighs Manhattan and it was thirty three years to the day that thighs men had that injury and thighs men was there. He was in the stands watching the game why it's just crazy to me the two of the most. Just horrific leg injuries in the history of the League happened on the same day thirty, three years apart by two guys that were on the same football team and they were both in the stadium at the time when the second one happened. So that was bizarre. Just like you said, I mean thighs men that ended his career mainly because he was old and he was playing poorly going into that I. think he tried to return the next year and he waved off the team. He had one surgery. You just said it right there. Alex Smith had seventeen surgeries. It wasn't the leg break that makes his. So amazing it's that he had. An infection that turned into. A smooth skin eating bacteria that they had to remove. So much of his leg that I I wouldn't. I mean project eleven I think is reoccurring tonight at eight o'clock or seven o'clock on ESPN and. Look. If you are SORTA queasy about that kind of stuff, not recommend watching that documentary it is as graphic as I've ever seen I've never actually seen a leg like that they took his leg all the way back to the studs because when there's an infection like that, they have to just keep removing the tissue and then they remove all the tissue and then he's got these holes in his leg and then it's still black. So they have to start removing his muscle. So then he's just down to the absolute bone and the plate that they put in his leg to to help his fibula. Tibia he'll, and then they have to start grafting skin and muscle from other parts of his body to to heal that and it's just. You. See this halo on his leg. It is. It is also bad to think that he could ever walk again. I mean, like you said, he almost lost his life they went in they went from leg saving surgery to. Life. Saving surgery because the infection was just they couldn't stop it and just the idea that he would be back out. There is incredible I know that there's you know they have a couple other quarterbacks. I believe they got Alan from from the panthers who's a Rivera guy and they got Haskins. So it's not like he's just going to. Be Back on the field guaranteed but I just can't even believe that he's going to go out there and he's competing still it's it's just an incredible story. Well. A lot of incredible stories going on right now with the way that the NFL is having to endure the pandemic and get ready for a season and learn from the MLB mistakes. I mean. The cardinals of only played eight games. the Marlins played what like twelve games or something like that, and or thirteen, or something and I don't know how they're going to hit them all in I. Think the NFL has done a pretty good job to this point while they've been in their own bubbles. Mike hasn't been huge numbers and a lot of those people have had mild cases and been able to return to play after ten days of. Being Clear Going forward. This may bode well to pull the season off, but they'll they're going to have the same problems. The pirates did not play as many games as we thought, they were GonNa this week and because player from the reds tested positive that means no Bucko baseball this past weekend will the same thing be happening in the NFL this year. And if it does, you don't have the opportunity, you can't play doubleheaders and football and you just don't have the time to make up for it. The contact starts today in Pittsburgh among other places and I guess that's a another significant. Bridge to cross right because. What a doctor foul she tell Peter King I? Think was way back in April that you know. The playing football listed is the perfect vehicle to transmit the virus. So hopefully, they keep a lid on not having anybody who's got it being out there and they can get by, but I'm actually cards by baseball. I know there's issues and some of these teams are having goofy seasons and they're gonNA have to. Cram it in any way they can probably play too many games in too short a period of time but it. You know it's it's preceding lot of teams are playing The cardboard cutouts are on TV and they're doing what they can atmosphere wise and. I saw phillies game. Last Thursday, Ben Franklin was in the second row. I thought man, what are you going to do to get the first road philly it's a tough ticket. Become President. Franklin. Okay. You could sit in the second row. Today I roll. Right. Let's take a break. We'll come back more on the steelers hitting the pads tomorrow and A. Today okay, and uneven weekend for the buckeyes that's next to help you take on the day. Sports. Might pursue has your sports right now on TV morning show what's going on Mike. Sports is brought to you by dormont appliance. The steelers scheduled to put the pads on today and begin playing some actual football at Heinz field as a training camp takes another significant step toward getting everybody ready for the opening of an NFL season in September, one of the things that's been. A lot locally and nationally in regard to how teams are going to survive all these changes and unprecedented developments as they prepare is the continuity is perceived to be a really big deal. If you've got pretty much the same coaching staff got the same quarterback. So you've got a lot of familiar faces, familiar places you are perceived to have a significant edge. The steelers might be one of those teams take. The offensive line, for example, a couple of changes this season, there's going to be a new right tackle and there's GonNa be a new left guard because the old right tackle is now playing left guard but a lot of guys who've played a lot of football together in steelers helmets upfront, and hopefully according to head coach Mike Tomlin enough shared experiences to be able to quickly adjust to the unforeseen everybody knows it's coming. You know. Particularly, in this environment, I think continuity is an asset. You know an office of line It probably gives you an advantage in terms of some of the unforeseen things that you see in stadiums at the early portions of the season it you don't have a lot of video evidence of that shared past experience and those guys have a has a tendency to be an asset to him no Dow but we also want to transition they're looking exclusively Matt filer left art He's also been. A part of this, but he's been plant right tackle and on to right tackle Geyser Bureau of have gotten opportunities in the recent past tiny report eligible and such where we we're hoping that that play an experience in in particularly that share clan experience is an asset to a group and some and some unique times and stepping t seventy, two regular-season stadium without any video evidence of personalities or matic's of opponents. is up in as worries. Worrisome, you'll hear Mike Tomlin say that a lot but he twice referenced the lack of video evidence. I haven't heard a player. Yet I wish we were played four preseason games but not. They want that tape even though most teams don't show a whole heck of a lot in preseason it's something that they are just you know condition to pouring over as much video as a candidate only got to figure it out, and that is going to be a factor early in the season. The backfield this year includes a new look. Any snow he's got that development has gotten attention of running backs coach eighty faulkner among others. Why? I think whatever the new guy shows up, there's a process of getting them to understand how you go about your business, a professional that was no different than Benny as a rookie last year and the saint processed on. All Anthony Far as Turkish year I'm so yes, we guide them on on the best ways to take care of the body what c e the You know the proper cautionary measures they need to take to keep themselves as healthy as possible on these are cussing conversations we have, but then it falls on the players who implement those things and what's been really good to see and yes, that is true Benny looks better. He's done a lot of running. You can see to work split in both exciting part by this he he did it while being away from us I'm. So you know he had a focus on on getting getting right and get in the best shape he can't. So like I said, I'm excited with Benny You know this guy is passionate love a so he'll pick things up i. feel like the ground running this year. Other than obvious guys who we you know have long track record sir established track records, Ben Rothlisberger on Offense Stefan to it on defense they're coming back from injury but we know what those guys can do when they're right snow is probably the Guy I'm most interested in seeing on offense and it would probably Devin Bush on defense Both of those guys should be much better. Both were pretty good At, different levels last year based on what they were asked to do and I think they can both be impactful. A guy that didn't get called upon a ton, but he did his best work when he got a regular workload in a game for whatever reason if James Connor was unavailable was when that took place and and Benny smell came through and really raised some eyebrows and some expectations any additional playing time he gets this year though is going to be have to be earned running backs coach Eddie. Faulkner again. Benny Style football me You know he thrives I think he gets better on back through college. He gets better as the game goes on and you know becomes eight. You know quote unquote finisher of those games on so I would expect that to continue to. Grow for him my expectation and years who would be too and the be more solid in and understanding has Texas and to be more solid and understanding route concepts we need to ask him to do that as much last year because we have at other guys on that could play that role we still do but as far as his development, that's the next step. You know he's a willing and very capable as protector but I want him to understand it like I do and so when he makes that next step I think he you know he started he's headed down the direction of being complete because he's got really good ads I'm and he can protect and obsolete seen as runner I think that it can say improve the shape he's An intern just get better with time. You know Mike I like Benny Smell and I thought that Jalen Samuels was going to be a great back. I thought he was going to be fine for the steelers and it just does not panned out that way. But all this talk of Benny Style this morning forgive me for being a little bit cynical. But just after having gone through the boy, you should see the within practice they are they look I believe. Building up any smell right now to me just drives on the fact that you got Anthony McFarland. Coming in as another guy who's Benny Snell two point. Now, WHO's GonNa have to learn how to pass block even though he's you know four feet tall and Doing, running back by committee when they had a horse like jk. Dobbins go through. And Ben Rothlisberger as much as he needs weapons still had. Yang to Johnson and Juju and James Washington and tight end they brought in I. Just don't understand why we gave away a first round pick for a guy that fell to us that could have been the answer. Second. Round pick. A. Clip I'M PICK Oh Yeah. Okay right. Right. Well. We could have had Jacob Dobbins there which unthinkable and it was a gift and I still every time I hear about. Benny, smells making big strides and. And I like that Dude I do but I wish we had a guy that everyone like we got a horse and James Connor, we have the complete package. Now the running game is incredible and every time the steelers have been awesome. They've had a killer running game and Ben has been able to light it up to augment that. He'll throw a one hundred yards we lose. Two things about SNELL. McFarland is is going to be a specialty guy at best as a rookie. Game The ball and see if he can pop a seam in papa big play. Once in a while Snell, came to them as a closer out of Kentucky when the game needed to be ground into dust at the end, you give it to he gets the tough yards. He's a runner man and he did his best work last year when he got double digit carries, he was four point to a Carey I. think he can be Connor insurance at the very least and it connor compliment at the very best of A. Abide on Betty Snow football, and maybe that's one of the reasons that they decided that get the receiver instead of JK Dobbins because they're buying into. Okay, well, I hope I mean. Hope, the, right. Parts a couple postponements in cincinnati over the weekend two more after losing three games in Saint Louis. But I your manager Dirk Shelton Getting much more adept at dealing with such curve balls. I think challenging is is probably the word because you're always dealing with the unknown I. Think the one thing that it's going to make me and our group better because we learn every day and we have to adapt and adjust and I think in in our position especially my job you know there's a lot of adapting and adjusting. So I'm hoping this is I'm hoping by you know going through this. This is making me better everyday and dealing with things. Some of the hockey highlights from the weekend club Julian. A Montreal is not coaching because he got stat inserted into his art to rascal the Bruins has opted out and the outliers are headed the capitols three games. Find time to opt out to. When we come back crazier was in town this weekend Bill Crawford was their review of stand up comedy during the pandemic that's next after you get your podcasts. Joe Bill Crawford. was at the starlight drive in this past weekend for our front Bert. Kreischer return to town doing stand up comedy live at a drive thru. Now, we talked with part about in. Drive in I'm sorry not drive through drive through comedy it'd be good to. Strip George. That was enough no you don't even have to continue I'm good. Folks. Did you want you want four jokes are that'll be seventy five dollars pull around? Second Window. They told you to pull never mind. Burton at the drive in now. When we talked to him, he said, he absolutely loved it and I know from talking to you before this, you ended up this too. I was I I. Did I thought it was a fantastic show. I you know I'm such a fan of Bert. And I knew that he was going to be. Great in that format in any format but most comics are not built I don't think for that format it's an out you're basically performing. To a humongous tailgate. Canned And you know they have their own stage and everything but back up for just a minute. You know burt we know the burt loves to work out and he always talks about how he has Mickey Mantle Gene and how he ran the marathon in La and five plus hours without any training. And so I, tried to set up a private workout for him with my guys periods training up in Wexford. Guys that I go see and and in their contracts, they have it where they can't go indoors. And so which is, which is smart. I think those guys are on the road and they're all crammed into one bus together and if one of them breaks off and like goes to eat inside of a book at a Beppo or something, and then brings back the virus everybody else it kind of. So in their contracts, they can't go inside. So those guys packed up a pickup truck and took out of those huge tractor tires, Mike and Sledge Hammers and big Russell talking about. Keto bells and all that stuff and gave those guys at work out during the day and so I ended up meeting up with those guys at night for the show and when I pulled into the starlight area up in Butler. There was I'm I'm not joking, I'll send you the video. I sent it to Bert. It is because it's it's it's too long to post on most social media accounts because it took me a minute and a half just to film the line it was over a half a mile long of cars he sold out two. At the drive in I don't know what capacity is, but that's that's a lot of cars and and so I got in line and I got in there and I was really impressed by how serious they were taking it. All of the people that were checking you in and checking your car to make sure that you didn't have booze which I didn't know you weren't allowed to bring. Club Willy brought a wagon full of white cloth. Luckily, for me, they don't consider white claw and alcohol. So go ahead girl enjoy yourself. What is that like alcohol curious drinks for? So. So we get in right and as we're getting in, I couldn't believe it. They took my temperature they took the forehead temperature they're doing that. So I was already the best way to get if you gotTa have your temperature taken by your bill for right right. If they came up to my window and said, could you please get on your knees and turn turnaround around I? Probably wouldn't be back. If one guy has a thermometer and the other guy has a banjo. You're in. Trouble. At least now, I know where my pen is. So. So we get into the to the to the drive-in area I, parked the car, and there's just you know ongoing announcements and Bert is actually doing a lot of the announcements. He's like, Hey, guys, this is one of my favorite tunes is how I started the L. A. Marathon and then they played born to run and they're you know. So there's music going and and they keep repeating if you leave your vehicle or the area, wear a mask because there's a concession stand. And a bathroom now the concession stand, you could actually order your food online. But at all of the workers were were wearing masks. There was a ton of security there. and. For the most part. I I mean. I I didn't leave my area amount went to the bathroom one time and never. Really used my hands. And then I had you know? Good sanitizer at the car whatever. But the show kicked off he brought two guys from La Dave while they're not from la but Dave Williamson. WHO's a comic that I know who I believe is also from. Tampa where where Bert is from and and another guy whose name escapes me but they were both great and then it started to get dark and then here comes the machine, and of course, you know one second into the show the shirt is off and it stayed off like I. Remember I've known burt. So long that I can remember him only doing about the first ten minutes of his set with his shirt off and the reason that he did that he told me was because for the audience, it completely wipes the slate clear of anything that's gone on before he got on the stage. So like no matter how the open part of the show was when Bert comes up there to black betty takes his shirt off and slugs Heineken. It's. Everything else just disappears. And and he was absolutely. Tiny. He's he he he didn't do that because I think. He's not drinking that much beer because you know he drinks one hundred, twenty ounces of Kuwait a day. So he just he drinks Tito's and soda. But he got up there and it was funny because before the show even started one of the openers goes are you ready for us? INDIANA. Everybody's like. Indiana casts. And and so just really kind of funny they they screwed up where where they were for a second because they've been on the road. I think they did Columbus the night before Philly the night after so you know you can forgive him for that. But Bert was just you know bird is Bert. I. Honestly don't know how most comics are going to be able to pull that off like did because he just he killed. Did, you say he drinks a hundred and twenty ounces of Koolade every day. I did I did. You know. How? Many? Grams of sugar that is. I mean I are we up in pounds I don't know I mean it's a lot. Eight hundred. Did that's why I mean that the episode of two bears, one cave that he does with Tom Sikora where Tom Gore discovers that burt is drinking kool aid out of what looks to be like a very healthy hydro flask. This thing is like sixty four ounces and Bert takes a big gulp of it and he's call this Kool aid is so good and Thomas. That's collate and he's like Oh. Yeah. I have two or three of these day Tom almost throws up from laughing so hard. Well, Romance Drinks Kool aid like that. He is the I mean he really should be the new aid man I think it would be a perfect ad campaign for him but all right. So but from a comedy standpoint and viewing it from your car, you enjoy this this worked the given tail. Yeah. Loved it. Because the danger being that you worried as perform, you won't be able to connect with people in the audience if they're in a car. Yeah. Well, I mean there was a couple of moments that he actually dealt with beautifully like at one point somebody's car alarm went off and he was like that is a i. This whole tour. And then there was a screech at one point Cargo and down the road because it's right there off of a main road and you can hear everything. So you have to deal with the elements in addition to the distance between people. So there's probably about. Thirty to fifty feet between him and the first audience member, and then it goes up the hill and then it's being projected on multiple screens and they bring their own stage and and then you tune it on your car. I was luckily I was fortunate enough to be close enough where I could hear the sound system that was coming from the stage. And most people were just had folding chairs or they were sitting in the back of their pickup trucks like everybody was kind of enjoying a nice night out and it was it was tremendous. It was just really cool and I know Nikki Glaser and Brian Regan are coming. To do shows there I'm probably going to go to both because I have no other way to see live comedy. That's awesome. That's glad you loved it now. I, know he did the Tracy Morgan story which the first. The first time he told it on stage was at the DVD comedy festival after Party at the REX theatre the second stage with. At that point Jim Brewer was the headliner of our first comedy festival Jim Breuer. All of the Tracy Morgan Parts live on stage at the REX theatre we have it on video. It's amazing. And we're going to put the audio of that on the podcast page. When you go to to iheartradio dot com, you click on the DVD show. The podcast. Each, and every day shows, but occasionally, we're able to separate things. So what we'll do is we'll separate that it'll be a separate entity that you'll be able to call up if you want to listen to Berkshire Jim Breuer doing, Tracy Morgan, and we'll have a clip. Of that because it's like a fifteen minute performance, we'll have a clip of that for you coming up later on this morning also more celebrating the anniversary of Woodstock. And we'll. We'll talk a little Santana soul sacrifice with twenty year old drummer keenum mark. And Carlos was only twenty two and Richie Havens improvising what would become his meal ticket forever on stage at Woodstock Missy Matthews talking steelers a whole more to come here on DVD Burg. Have you Have you encountered a white claw over the pandemic? I've not truly. Any kind of Seltzer. No. I've been drinking bud. Light. the pounder aluminum bottles. Okay Bud light has a seltzer. So you just back yourself into a corner. It not don't have to drink. Yup. Not a fan won't. You haven't drank it. So how could you know you're not a Fan Because the same way that my dad knew he didn't like Mexican. Food he just knew. Never, went to a Mexican restaurant, but he just knew he didn't like it that inside you. Don't have to watch it. I. Know I don't like it Randy Bowman and the. Morning Show. I was cleaning out my dad's clauses to close to goodwill this weekend up at his house and like going through his stuff and taking pictures and sending it to my siblings like anybody want this. And the amount of West Virginia, Gear, that my dad had hanging in his closet is. Unbelievable I'm definitely put my sister's like we're selling that. We're because they buy all these retro sites and I'm like I don't know how much the college kids these days are going to WanNa wear a retro Wvu. Golf shirt you know like I got that done kneeland. Phelan. You're probably not GONNA get big dollars for that stuff you know but the thing was The amount of are rated t shirts my dad owned and kept in rotation like Steph from like where did you wear this? There's about five people you could safely wear this around lake. Why was not? With. That on their. Please tell me you kept all that stuff. Stuff hosted online like I was I was. The. Ones that sailors be a real sailor and. He had so many like that I. mean there were a bunch of those and he had a bunch of. T shirt like uniforms from the codger league that he started, which is like the geriatric. Softball, league, and and so he would make fun of how old and decrepit they were. The ones shirt said front of shirt back of shirt like it had it listed on it, and that was the Jersey concedes to have these eight year old guys and they would like put the Jersey on backwards and stuff. So he would just constantly make fun of them, and then you know invariably he became that guy which is the true irony of it all. But I mean going through his stuff I thought. I'm GONNA find one hundred dollars worth of coins, dollar bills stuff like that. I found eighty five cents I mean you know and they say you can't take it with you I think my dad did. because. There was nothing in the pockets. Wow. Eighty cents. Dude. That is a tenacious. In my pocket like not one five dollar bill the hallway. Millions of free. Las Vegas Casino Swag Jackets sweatshirts I, mean he was the customer of the year at the Hotel San Remo in two thousand two and he's and he's got all this hotel San Remo stuff I'm like does anybody want Vegas Casino Swipe their like throw it away what are you doing? I. Don't know man. So I got like five contractor bags full. Of Clothes and I'm about a quarter of the way done maybe maybe twenty percent. Like there's a lot more to go dude horrid so much stuff. It is to get rid of that stuff though isn't it? I? mean. That was just like Terrible he'd so many bad shoes. I'm like dude did you really wear these reeboks? some of it was like a leisure to throw away. A lot of a lot of the people from that generation. Were hoarders pack graphs as they used to be called before hoarding. Started to be the in vogue phrase. The there's a level of just garbage, but then you get beneath that and it gets it gets more and more difficult to further along you go because then it's like it goes from stuff that I don't think was even probably important to them to stuff that was important to them but has no meaning to you to the stuff that you remember as them and then you know. So it's like you either have a memory up with it. So that that, that can get tough. Oh Yeah. We'll see because you never really know right like you don't know what their attachment to things were necessarily something you obviously but not everything and my sister told the yesterday she's like I didn't tell you this before we move my dad who assisted living and he really kind of lost any sense of being who he had once was at that point and we were just trying to surround him with as much stuff as possible to make them feel comfortable. So. My brother and I moved a few pieces of furniture not much because he couldn't fit much into the room. So we grab this one cabinet from the family room that we thought like okay. This will remind him of that room liked that room and we'll put it in there and this'll be the one like little centerpiece. It'll make him feel like he's back home in his living room my sister's like, yeah, you know that piece you guys moved in to. This assisted living room and I was like, yeah, she's like that was the source of one of the biggest fights before our parents to force because my mom bought him. Do we need that. was. Like. That is expensive. Mean, what do you spend money on? Like they had a knock down drag out fight over that to the point where my dad called the mill of the place that made it. He's like take this piece of furniture back now you worry about it jackass it's not coming back. So my dad hated that thing with the white hot intensity of ten sons and he would like he would always look. At it and I didn't know I never see just like you were so little you would have never remember that and I had no idea and here when he was beyond having any faculties to be able to tell me that the last thing he would ever want to like have to look at in his remaining days that one piece of furniture I just. Put it in his room. His. Final Resting Place he was staring at one of the reminders of the the the crumbling of marriage like, Oh, well well, you should have said something I. Don't know you know. Hey took his. Just put a piece a note on there. In case of my mental decline Sunday do not put me in a room with this thing. Are you gonNa tell your mom about that story. Are you going to tell your mom that? No? No, no no. No. Now now, and apparently there were a of other things that my dad kept out. Of spite that my mom really wanted and my dad was like, no, you can't have. Them he's like, yeah, but you do so I'm keeping them right so like My mom came back. And then like my brother's been staying out there and she was like. There were these two little I mean tiny ceramic figurines that she loved that. I. Don't remember what they're called. But she she's like you think anybody would mind if I took these back. I mean I've always loved these and. Other. Let have. Took them back and she was very worried that we're all going to be mad about it. I'm like I could I honestly could care less. But the fact that they like in her head, they are still fighting. Thirty five years later over a divorce that happened in nineteen, eighty four. Right. Oh Man. So. It is a constant like the one thing about not being able to have the funeral because of the pandemic and my brothers and sisters could not fly back into town so that we could wrap this up tightly is prolonging I mean it is going on and on and on because. He will want all I want that clock I, want that lamp. And so it's just me and my younger brother who's up in eerie and we're trying to do it all and it's like it's taking forever knows there's something to be said for the way the Jewish people. Bury. Their dead two days boom there in the ground and you move on but this is like Bill. It's like every two weeks I'm doing seventy two hours of memory lane. Oh Man, but it's a massive could. Probably Dusty close away you know what I mean. It's just like Jesus. Is it. Is it all just super heavier? Is there a part of it? That's kind of Cathartic. It is for me. I actually feel bad for my siblings because I was telling my sister that yesterday she's like I'll try to get there in two weeks. I'm GONNA drive into town because she's trying to get her kids off to school. And She's like I'm sorry you're doing it by yourself. I'm like, no I'm sorry you guys aren't here like for me it's it's helps with closure. You know I'm okay with it and Mike I know you the same thing with your siblings and your parents it does have like as as emotionally trying it can be it's also like it helps you come to terms with things. I thought it was incredibly valuable and. My Dad died my mom just kept everything anyway. So like we got rid of his stuff just because he was dead because you know, why would you throw anything away and then when my mom died, we had to clean the house out and we would find stuff. It's just there was no reason to keep this and it would lead to a story in an a laugh at it. It actually took US longer. Process took US longer than it should have because we kept lingering over something and it would start laughing at till we started cried it was It was Cathartic is the word that really. After my mob DA was going to get through that and then I felt like after we finally did that I thought. Okay I'm going to be okay. Yeah. I was kind of left to send pictures to to my brothers and sisters. You know like you know, hey, check this out. The only thing I've you'll appreciate this might the only thing I found in his pockets of all the pockets I checked. Was a the number of his fifty fifty ticket. For A HOLY ROSARY CHURCH FIFTY FIFTY Like three foot like number three or four, nine, eight, fifty dollars. So he bought fifty dollars worth of fifty fifty s and he just wanted to like his top number on there three or four, nine, eight to like. It was the range of tickets that he bought. My Dad had a steelers ticket from Vegas. season. Season ticket to win the Super Bowl. That he died in the preseason that year but you know the season played out they didn't win but he had a bet goal. Yeah. From beyond like. This is very appropriately. Incredible to me the things that people hang onto whenever my grandmother passed away we went and cleaned out the. House. And she had in her bedside table. My Dad's report card from fourth grade. And his brothers report card from back. Then it I mean it was browning. It was so old you know and she just had it like it wasn't like tucked away deepen some box it was next it was in the nightstand next to her bed. It's it is remarkable things people hold onto, and then they become used to seeing them there, and then they just don't ever want to move them and they become these touchstones in their lives where they're like Oh that I just couldn't bear to not look at that I want it to be there somewhere I can see it this houses. Off, with that or it's like, why didn't he get rid of this? chasis. Have you made the way down to the level of things where it's all the things that fart or make some kind of noise? Well, we had to make a decision about the novelty because the amount of novelty things like everything farts or talks in that like you. If you like push down on the soap dispenser a frog, and it rivets at you. You know like no matter what its reach into the candy dish it's it's three rivers stadium and it. Cheers. Awesome. The like the pepper grinder was a waiter. It was like a plastic waiter dude old fashioned way or the mustache and the you know the towel over his arm and you turn his head to grind the pepper and it goes out you're breaking my neck. Mike. Why they have everything talked to you the bottle opener. homer. Simpson. Thing down. You opened up here. To a good, good, good, good good look at all the dolls. The Santa clauses like through time would talk. Yeah there's A. There's a lot if it far did my dad Baden, there's a remote fart machine that he had or you have a remote control for it and you can put the speaker anywhere. So he would put it in the bathroom in the on the first floor that everybody would use when they're big company over and he'd have control of the remote control like somebody's wife would go into the bathroom to use the bathroom and my dad would be like. Hit the going. Really, tearing it up there. The rudest. Poor woman you know pray you know he would do it to people. You hardly knew were there for the first time? This woman comes out allred facing. Oh, boy hey real symphony warming up in their anyways. Yeah hopefully, we'll be able to get everybody back in town and I won't have to keep. Telling all these stories. So by going through my old man's stuff solo. But let me tell you about today's DVD auto deal of the day from right Hyundai. It's Today's deal the 2016 Ford escape four wheel drive sports utility model listed at nine, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine dollars this two, thousand sixteen scape has smart device integration, onboard communication system satellite radio, and more again, just nine, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine dollars. Well, you gotTa keep going back to school needs the needs a whip there you go man how about this check It out now right Hyundai Dot com click on the deal the day banner to learn more about this and other great deals they have listed right? Hyundai located on Perry Highway in Wexford Right Hyundai. Dot Com quick break. We'll come back have more on the steelers hitting the pads today Matthew steelers, dot com eight, forty, five, and more celebrating the anniversary of Woodstock Richie havens seminal moment improvising the song that would define his career that's on the way here on. The. Sports. What's up my? Sports brought the PUCK Ridgeville apply its are you ready for some football? It is contact integration period number one day number one in the NFL. The steelers are gonNA, hit the field hide spiel today and put the shoulder pads on and proceed with not just football like activities but actual football permitted fourteen padded practices between today and September the sixth and of course, as you guys know these. Practices are subject to the conditions established in article twenty, three section seven c of the rules that were negotiated between the NFL PA initiatives for training camp. It is finally here it's been a long wait for the steelers and everybody else and continuity while if it's not going to be king, it might be Secretary of state this season we've heard already from Mike Tomlin today talking about how He perceives value in continuity on the coaching staff and at certain critical positions such as quarterback, for example, but as it relates to Ben Rothlisberger and how the steelers are going to precede Mike Tomlin is only planning on that continuity. Taking the team so far. You know I'd be speculating. But like those advantages exist or exists says absolutes there are some advantages of continuity like I mentioned earlier, not only in this call, but in previous calls about having shared experience in an unstable uncertain environment. But we're not going to make any assumptions or or or find comfort in in some of those facts where two simply gonNa respect the circumstances that we end as unique and as they are unique for everyone and. Expect them everyday with thoughts and accidents, and and prepare for the battle that lies and we know that -versities won't be art of it whether you got experience. Or, lack up. That's just the nature of these NFL. Journeys. steelers don't have a running back has played more than four years in the League or with the team, and they don't have a running back who has rushed for one thousand yards in the league. But they've got James Connor back healthy as we speak and ready to be. A leader in the running backs room as well as the starter at running back. That's Rose my job of you know it that when I'm gone. I said it's on every day when I said other practice. Not, young guys. It's awesome. I'll learn from them. No An enabler from me and so it's been nice learn to go. As the great. In a rookie. Wrong. many's learn fast he's looking good. Questions and he's picking things up as well. So. The world has learned from each other as ever offered. So far. Pads are scheduled to come on today's that contact integration period runs through September. The sixth, the pirates are today they thought they might be playing at double header in Cincinnati after having games against the reds postponed on Saturday and Sunday due to reds issues with the players testing positive for the corona virus. It's not a new experience for the piracy at three games postponed in Saint Louis prior to getting a Cincinnati because of the cardinals problems with the coronavirus manager Derek Shelton did soom thing yesterday and said, the bucks are doing what they can to work around these unscheduled interruptions in the schedule. Yeah and I think that's the challenge we we've gone through. So we're GONNA work out today, which is good before we go home and I think that's important and then we'll probably have some guys throw tomorrow just because of our pitching being backed up so but we just try to try to treat it like a workday and get you know make sure we're out in the field moving around. Couple doubleheaders scheduled over the weekend to make up for those games that were played in Saint Louis Two bucks cardinals play a doubleheader in Saint Louis on August the twenty seventh and a single game against the cardinals in Pittsburgh on September the eighteenth has now become a double. No Word on when those reds games will be made up the Stanley Cup playoffs rolling along over the weekend and among the developments yesterday three games. Going into overtime that's the second time in the twenty twenty postseason that three games have required ot to decide. It's the third time in history that's happened nineteen, eighty and two, thousand twelve. The first examples of that the islanders are up three games to none on the capital's after winning in overtime to one game three, they are six and one since the NHL's restart. They're doing it again. And they look like they're pretty committed to this thing others not so much. The bruins had to CA- RASK OPT out prior to game three against Carolina Boston one that a two games two, one series lead. The bruins also haven't had David Pasternak for games two and three he might play tonight in game four. The Canadians are forging ahead without their head coach Claude Julien who had a have a procedure for the installation of a stent The cranes are being coached by Curt Muller and Julia and is not expected to return for the duration of the cart series against Philadelphia which the flyers lead. Two Games to one Marc Andre Fleury. Got A win for Vegas over the weekend the gold nights starting him in game three flurry beat Chicago two to one for three games to none series lead Vegas went back to Robin Lehner yesterday and got beat. So it's still a three to one lead for Vegas but Marc Andre Fleury back in a post season crease got his eightieth career playoff victory. Ken. Dryden for six place all-time guys. They. Let me have my poodles in the bubble. That's pretty crazy. The islanders series I mean I thought the capitals were supposed to have a dynasty now. Too quick exits after a coup-. One game away. See How I. Display My. Disdain for the penguins. Move right over to the capital's. Disappointment with the lack of effort for doing the. Thing, we knows and just transfer it. It's called transference. Yeah. Just over there. Look at those guys they suck. I'm sure most. Most pence fans are taking great kaleen that. STICK CAPS WE'RE GONNA win the series and they put a few bucks on radio. That's the only reason I can. Imagine that. Someone would be irked by this development. Bill said something earlier, which I think is going to be the resounding sentiment from all the penguin apologists. Look it what they're doing against Philadelphia Thought Montreal was supposed to stink and have no business being there and they took one from Philly in that series is close instead of being. Ridiculously upset that the underachieving penguins. Almost got swept by the Canadians. I'm ruining for the Canadian so hard because again it's great to see the caps losing, but the flyers winning is is not okay and it needs to stop immediately. How would you feel about stopping next round? As long as they don't I mean you know as long as they don't make it to the the final I'm good. Betty. Heavily. I prefer they win this route philly. Benny with my head not my heart. I. Went with Philly over them and that's series I took the coyotes which that looks like it's A. Wash out and also. Eaten a you know what? With the with the caps. I thought the capital you're. GonNa win. This is why I don't bet this is why I don't play fantasy football. Betting on the capital's or the flyers. Just something I could never get never bring myself to do couldn't do it also, it's kind of Boston in this round and I'm down my starting goaltender and the best goalscorer. With the sport. No problem. Gave it a shot to hell with it. I'm waving them. And that kind of went home that's no good good for you. Bell. It just takes a little time and you'll you can get used to betting on teams you absolutely hate. It's like when I, told myself many years ago I would never bet on a game I can't watch. South out of the mouths of Babes. To me, fantasy football is even worse because at least with gambling, you have lot of money on the line whenever we would be watching a ravens steelers game. And I had to watch somebody in my family. Cheer. If Ray Rice scored a touchdown, it was just like I'm done I'm out. Why would why would you ever I don't care if I lose every game in a fantasy season I'm not rooting for Burbank. Lot of people talk about that. I mean players Bemoan the fact that that turned it from a team sport in individual players. Much NBA fashioned. Where the NFL had always been team I it doesn't matter then all of a sudden it became a league where people root for players because fantasy football dominated the networks in a league embraced it. It definitely made it a lot more annoying because then became go we just a touchdown for rose. Where every other steeler fan in the stadium was. Livid, and this person secretly going food. Bed. And if my reference is dated, that's because that's the last time I played fantasy football. Two thousand. Eleven. Never played when was the last game ray rice played? Later that. It was probably. I WANNA say either from anywhere from two thousand, twelve to fourteen. He was on the two, thousand, twelve, team two, thousand, fourteen when he got booted out of the League. All right. When we come back, let's talk about these Pittsburgh steelers. Big Ben looking good photogenic. If nothing else he's taking some great glamor shots for the the team I don't know if you guys have seen them. But Handsome as ever mended. So when we come back. Missing Matthews from steelers. Dot Com. Talking steeler football here on your radio home of the black and gold one or two point five. Randy Baumann and the DVD morning show here on your radio home of the Pittsburgh steelers one, a two point five. Devi e Mike pursued a and our next guest. Busy Matthews are doing a couple of different shows on steelers dot, com. Interesting stuff these days as the online content continues to. Ramp Up. In response to as much bubbling is going on right now there's all kinds of socially distant zoom shows Mike and missy doing training camp live and training camp wrap up in with the black and gold putting on pads today. It'd be a great time to have our friend Missy, Matthews from steelers. Dot Com joining us here on the show. Good Morning Missy, how are you? Hi Guys, Good Morning Getting Ready to leave my house into. The. Also, I'm not docking live. Pretty excited. For as This has gone on and you've been distance and not had the thrill of training camp this year I would imagine that. Although you're not gonNA put on the pads today, the anticipation is pretty great for you and the Resin steelers media. I mean just to be able to watch football it's sad because we didn't have OTA's there wasn't many camping some of the parts of the off season that maybe we dread or we felt like carries on a little bit I mean, no one has watched steelers practice since December So yeah, I think to say everyone's excited is an understatement it's environment. we will be watching from socially distanced area. So I mean all of its new of course. Yeah exciting and. Yeah, I just I just WANNA. See some football other than like my children playing football in my backyard. Members of the media that you were that you wish would still like forget to turn off the mute so you don't have to listen to them while practices going. I mean I will say there are some members of the media in. Pittsburgh. Who still have not fully grasp. Zoom I do enjoy it a little bit but I think maybe we'll get there. As you know, every interview during training camp is going to be via zoom. So we we all need to do our best to learn the new medium. Missy what about fans? My still cool to go up to the overlook at Mount. Washington with the telescope or is that Not, too, close. I mean best wishes I don't know how much you'll see but I mean, you guys are talking. Raven. For he jumps on I. Heard of you know pursued I are getting to do something cool. We have never carried any of practice live. We've always done live programming pretty much wrapping up the day taking coach live but starting probably Fifteen minutes before practice starts approximately one fifteen they're supposed to. You know really blast the horn get going at one thirty guys walking out guys stretching if you've been to training Camp Ben and county like throw balls at the field goal there's just different little things that all the players do as they get ready for practice, some guys are listening to music. Some guys are just chatting So we're GONNA get to do it live with. Stadium cameras like the ones that you know do the scoreboard and network feeds and Seinfield for games, we have three of them So it should be pretty cool because then we'll get to show the players coming out a little bit of individuals. We're not going to get to the show the whole thing but I think it is going to be a glimpse that I know we're all excited about all members of the are excited about as well. And we'll be doing that every day. There's a practice correct. Yes. Market. And then the wrap up the wrap up is going to alternate. With either myself Tonkin or Craig Wolseley that'll start with the Mike Tomlin press conference and then continue their after still. Yeah. I'm pretty excited about this is well What Is there. One thing beyond just getting out of the house and drive in the Heinz field and hoping you remember where it is. Is there something in particular that you're GONNA be Kinda zeroed in on today. Well I WANNA. See how good my jersey number skills are. You know I? Feel like usually during otas and minicamp kind of okay. Yeah. I know who that guy is that you know not like the Eric Lebron's the big for each but just some of the other guys and I feel like I'm a little rusty right now because normally when he or sending email text messages and my co workers say like thirty and nineteen you know and sometimes I'm like wait that so I just feel like for me. I need to make sure that I understand the roster who guys are I really WanNa see you know coach talked about Benny. Snail, he talked about the Johnson Kinda trimming down getting more in shape for year two. But you know I go through every photo and video that is posted on the website or set out to the media from the full photos and Dan mccullers looks like he's slimmed down. So I WANNA see for my own is you know what big Dan which is his nickname looks like And just really you know number seven I know it's that's low hanging fruit. But who doesn't WANNA see seven with their own is Yeah I mean. I saw action here. To follow up on the mccullers. Thing I'm GonNa make a bold prediction that Dan mccullers doesn't play very much this year. Really Yeah I. Own, way out on the lip. Fool me once. Shame on you. Fool me four years ago. I'm an idiot steeler fan. He's. Here he's made a huge leap. In that vein missy are there any you know? So many positions are settled already but are there battles that you're looking forward to seeing taking place? Coaches. Make a decision now that the pads are on those might. Become a little more clear. I guess the only one big battle everyone wants to see as right tackle and we know who is between WanNa know how the coaches doing it or are they switching every day where either tubes or Zach banner go with First Team? How do they split it up? Is it GONNA be by week? You know what? What are they doing to determine because you don't have very much to go by other than these padded practices. So I'm interested to see how they do that. Also you know Matt Canada spoke to. Speak there. We heard from Eddie. Faulkner everyone's talking about improving the run game and maybe some different tweaks and different things that no one wants to give any answers away from. So I WANNA see what not Canada's influences on this offense motion and all the different things and also just how. They are taking a step to try to improve the run game from what it was last year. Of course, it was a quarterback fiasco losing Ben Rothlisberger, but that's still something you're running has to be better. Are the coaches anticipated to way social media interaction in their decision on who to start at right tackle. We could we tried to do twitter Paul and coach visa, but I doubt. With it. Zach Banner Runaway winner there if that were the case. So all right. They're GONNA today seven is back. I saw the tight spiral that you guys put out on steeler dot com feeling pretty good about the spiral. I love it. Everyone's using off of all of the photos and videos that are just you know the thirty seconds but again I think we're all Jonesing for football and everyone's going crazy. So yeah. The good thing is he was in the photos yesterday this is just me trying to play mind games probably with myself. Normally he does a full day a half day off I didn't see him on Friday in the photos. Okay. The players were off on Saturday on Sunday he was in them. So I'm hoping that means today he's at least a half day in the PATS. The La- last thing I was wondering is, do you have any insight on what they plan to do specialties twice for returning kicks? In particular punts. Well no but we do get a chance to hear from Danny Smith this week So I'm sure there will be a lot of questions pursued loves it usually chase that Danny Smith through the indoor practice facility to try to get him to speak on Thursdays. So he will be in front of a zoom camera I can't remember what it is, but he is going to speak with the media. So I bet we'll find out a lot more then Matthews is coming up lot Thurs.. Thursday. Okay. They all run together. I have my calendar I just I don't. Shows on steelers, dot com training camp live with my pursued a training camp wrap up with Mike pursued a all the best to you missy and looking forward to see how things go here and keeping our fingers crossed for continued success for the NFL to get back up and running and be covert free. So we don't have to have any you know. The. The steelers have to forfeit their game against the bengals. This Sunday that's something I don't want to hear and they're the a handle on things they seem to be doing. Okay. So fingers crossed. Thanks for having me guys. Missy Matthew steelers. DV. I was cleaning out my dad's clauses close to goodwill. This weekend up in his house and like going through his stuff and taking pictures and sending it to my siblings like Zan body want this you know and the only thing I've you'll appreciate this the only thing I found in his pockets of all the pockets I checked. WAS A. The number of his fifty fifty ticket. Holy. Rosary Church fifty fifty. Like, three foot like number three, four, nine, eight, fifty dollars about fifty dollars worth of fifty fifties and he just wanted to like his top number on there. Three, four, nine, eight to like it was the range of tickets that he bought. My Dad had a steelers ticket from Vegas A, season? Season ticket to win, the super. Bowl. That He died in the preseason that here but. You know the season played out they didn't win but he had a bet goal. Yeah. From beyond. Like? Inquiry this is very appropriate, Randy Bowman and the DVD morning show. The channel eleven weather center. Check out with the forecast is for today Severe Weather Center Levin. Is probably seventy five degrees right now. Sounds right. Balas off today and I'm filling in for quick news update for you but we're going to be celebrating the anniversary of Woodstock this hour and playing a little bit of the Bert Kreischer. Tracy, Morgan story that he famously told that the very first comedy festival with Jim Breuer on stage. At the REX theatre for the second stage show of that inaugural. Comedy, Fest. And he retold it this past weekend, we're GONNA put the entire segment up on the PODCAST page iheartradio dot com use the iheartradio. APP. Or really anywhere get podcast, but you'll be able to find their. But a quick look at the news. The arrest of twenty five year old. Matthew Carter. Cartier over the weekend. You'll protests. Protesters marched through a bunch of neighborhoods in Pittsburgh and they ended up at Mayor Bill Peduto house where they demanded he resigned. Mo- attorney. Four I think it's Cartier's how you say it Cardi Air. Now. It's Bob. Carter middlemen is his attorney and she was once an allegheny county district. Attorney. Candid dip. On her social media site, she said that his arrest was dangerous unconstitutional. You saw this right where the Game marked van showed up. And then. Carry on identified people jump out and took the guy and threw him in the band. She said if we have any meaningful dialogue about the future of policing in the city and county, a better effort must be made to address the concerns of the community. Cardiac. Arrest over the weekend sparked outrage they called this a kidnapping. A couple of hundred people showed out a showed up outside of Mayor Bill Peduto House. They want gone. Guys he's taken it from everywhere bill everyone on the right. On the left hates them. Basically nowhere lives to do they just have an idea of the neighborhood and then they just walk along until they see a bike lane instead of a driveway. You just follow the bike pain the bike path, and that's where it ends at his house and Yellow Brick road. Old. Yeah this is just all one big plot by bill peduto to half company. Yeah. Lisa. Carter. was interfering with public safety. Protesters have said the police cross the line they were using force to instigate. The protesters and intimidate them. and. Pittsburgh leaders have held a press conference. To address questions and concerns citizens brought up yesterday and you can find that online or be like you. Said Net. GATORS are bad. The worse than not wearing a mask. Yeah. Well. Apparently. That study. has been misinterpreted. Now. This happens a lot. Where we all learn a new fact about Kobe, and then it gets misinterpreted and then everybody jumps on the misinterpretation instead of you're talking through. How it was misinterpreted much like you'll see a story today being reported everywhere that there is a new version of the corona virus found in. Malaysia. That is ten times more. transmittable. Ten Times MORE INFECTIOUS Than the other strain of covid. Though no less deadly. But what they don't tell you as the one we have here. It's the one that's already in Europe, but the headline is designed to make it look like Oh my God there's this uber contagious form of Cova down now that's the same one we have here bill. Thought you were GONNA say like covert is doing a Collab- oh, with DJ collide it's it's going to be even bigger and better than before and we got another one another one. Yes. No Kobe. coveted. Kelvin is featured on the new. It's Pandemic Israeli with the name of the song is. anyways. Reason that net gators aren't bad. Okay. The headline that neck eaters can be worse was inaccurate. A disease specialist at the University of California said. Publicity like this is worrisome said Dr Monica Gandhi because it turns people off for mask-wearing, which we know can protect both the individual wearing the mask and those around them. So the Mass was the gator headline was misinterpreted because the study was about how to test masks not which masks are best and you have to test way more people than the one or two people they used for that study and. They only use. Aerosol, which isn't enough because while that's one way that droplets are produced, it's not relevant to all situations neck aiders especially popular among runners. So how well those masks block droplets from heavy breathing rather than talking is a more informative measure of whether or not gators are successful. So. You have to take that into account too, and the droplet number doesn't necessarily equate to risk of transmission, which is one of the basis of that study. So don't throw it your neck ater. It's better than nothing it's not worker not wearing a mask. but it might not be ideal in every scenario as with everything. We learn new information about the the coronavirus and Kobe the pandemic, and then you should adapt. There's not one set of rules that's right or wrong in the beginning and then everybody just goes. Well if that's not right anymore, then I'm not going to believe anything. I'm not wearing a mask in the pandemic doesn't exist. That's not the way to go about it although some people are going about it that way. I'll be completely honest I didn't know exactly what you meant when you said gator the more you talked, I obviously, I hopped on just a couple of stops down from from where you started but I, love the net gator and I love it because I find myself as I get older. Now I'm forty wanting to wear a turtleneck but not having the courage to and the neck gator is a loophole where I can just when I'm not wearing it up over my face I have something that is protecting my neck which has gotten. Inexplicably chilly in in the last year in the middle of summer. I feel like vowel right now I have a chilly neck and big fan of the nicktator. Well. Good News on the coronavirus front new studies showing. that. Immune responses to the virus are now starting to see encouraging signs of strong lasting immunity. This is from a story in the New York Times even people who develop. Systems symptoms of Covid nineteen. So this is a whole bunch of new study suggesting this, which is good disease fighting antibodies, as well as immune cells called B cells and t cells that are capable of recognizing the virus appear to persist months after infections of resolve in encouraging echo of the bodies during response to other viruses. Again, that's from the New York Times. So things are working the way they're supposed to. That's good bill we. have. You had covid. You're going to develop an immunity that will last. They don't know exactly how long but early on they were worried it was only gonna be for you know possibly a month or two, but it looks like it might be closer if I'm reading this study right to like a flu where you have a full year immunity. But they're not indefinite. So that's good that's good and also bodes well for Ruger. Possibility of very effective vaccines. That only thirty percent of Americans will get. Okay. If you haven't been sleeping right since March, you definitely not alone bill. According to a new survey the majority of Americans say the stress of the pandemic negative effect on their sleep and the biggest way trying to sleep better is. Not Changing the news at night. Oh. Yes. What did you say? I I said naked. You're like masturbating what? The. Rest of the top ten are what? Are the ways people are trying to sleep during pandemic number number two eating healthy. Okay or healthier must. Three exercising that definitely works. Definitely. Reading books before bed. Also gusting the music before bed. Taking a warmonger or shower before bed. Meditating. Having sex before bed. or on the bed or you know wherever taking over the counter sleep aid. US does don't don't do that I don't. If you don't have to do that. Don't do that I think that that's a long-term bad plan. Simply. Melatonin. Are Not as bad. Yeah. Like getting out of and or something to go to sleep I think as a You know ZANEX. Day You can get Zanex over the counter. Giant Tell me. Also they say getting better pillows is away. People are trying to better their sleep patterns during the pandemic if you just knock off a few of those at once like have sex and a warm bath while reading a book. On ambien I mean why not? Hey and you wouldn't remember the whole thing either probably because of the Ambien baby pull the tiger woods wake up at Perkins with a plateful of pancakes and wonder how you got there. is the waitress smiling at me so much? Happy Birthday Robert Deniro seventy seven years old what is your favorite Robert Deniro Role? In goodfellas, it's not even close. For me I mean, it's just my favorite Jimmy Conway come on. With you. With you. Salted a little bit you did. You salted them a little bit. It's the best. And I mean Casino Man. He's. He's in so many good movies. I Love Him in Casino. Jimmy. The Gent is terrifying. I think the deer hunter he is so good in the deer hunter. It is such a good movie and his role. So understated for most of the movie, it's man it is. Mazar too. But Oh, dude yeah he was pretty. Amazing Godfather to. But because he was able to place. Straight man in comedy. So well, he was great and comedies I think he did a couple too many but like if you think about analyze this and the first meet the parents he's awesome. So good. I have Nipples Greg can you milk me? got. My eye on you. Yeah he's great in seventy seven years old but go back and watch mean streets. I. Mean Him and Car Harvey hightower just terrifying back then. Oh. Yeah And Cape Fear is so good. He's so good. Irishman not so much although. Not, technology that Martin Scorsese us for the Irishman as we know from a past segment on the show. He is not going to stop Joe Baby Fellas. Next summer becoming his streaming platform near you from director Martin Scorsese. Ran On your friends and always keep your bank you in your mouth and the makers of mother babies. No I'd go from rags to riches. Back as I remember she's about two months I always wanted to be a baby feller. Fellow. Utilizing. The. Latest. In Cgi G.. Techniques. was. The only way anybody said in line mom and dad acted up they got a dirty diaper. Everyone knew the role Ono Henry again. starring. Baby Deniro. Jimmy here's your bottle honey. Yeah. You should be sorry you come down here you make me go. Embarrassed me in front of my friends. With you I I don't know I just a matter what you. Jimmy I. Know You hungry honey but matter with you. Hymie come to mommy. So I, can clean you up. Your nose is all running Lamy. My nose is runny runny. runny about it. Baby Ray Liotta we had it all just for the asking out after a long Damer. Feed me get something burning on the stove. Nipple still tend to from lunch. Feed me in a world that's powered by cry babies in the CRIBS where the cry babies have the power. A new generation carries on an old tradition baby fellas. Doing that you get. Bang Bang? ally. Aging stuff did not work in the Irishman man, it just looked like Deniro's walking around in an instagram filter. Yeah, it's really really bad. The fight scene is the worst the it's not even as face it's just trying to imagine him beating somebody up quickly. Is. That is so bad. It's. Like. Remember George Burns used to beat people up in his eighties. No No real tough guy. Seventy seven years. All happy. Birthday Robert Deniro it's the anniversary of Woodstock, fifty one years ago. August fifteenth August eighteen. Three Days of love peace. And herpes. And of course iconic. Abound. From the most important music festival in American music history. And it really kicked off. A worldwide. Festival. Phenomenon. And one of the best performances richie havens goes out on stage and they ask him to stretch like play more play more because they couldn't get the musicians to the stage on time. It was just a logistic nightmare is recounted pretty nicely in the netflix documentary about Woodstock, they put out a year or two ago but the original movie does a pretty good job of chronicling and as well as on Academy Award winning documentary by the way Martin. Scorsese was one of the. Cinematography tax on. That flick. But Richie havens asked to vamp just keep playing, keep playing. So he starts going into a little bit of traditional motherless child and figure she's just get an echo. A little bit of that song because he doesn't know any, you know what the play. So He's just improvising this improvised a song that would end up becoming. Basically, his entire career I mean this made him and the funny thing was he didn't have any teeth the movie you didn't have any front teeth and you're like. Kinda strange dude has no. Front. Teeth. Very interesting and I read about his teeth I'm like, why did he take out his dentures when he would sing or something? No. He didn't have any. He didn't have a bridge. He just walked around with no teeth for a long time and coo according to the Internet Johnny Carson. Convinced him to get teeth. Ritchie. Heavy on panel if you had some Curly weights UND. So. He goes out there and vamps this song freedom he makes up the lyrics and it becomes. One of the most iconic songs ever performed live Richie havens right on the spot at Woodstock. Here's freedom the. Balls. D. E. Sports. Mike pursued a sports ju just talked to the steeler media and had some interesting things to say. Yeah, we're just Ju just zoomed with Juju Smith Schuster and. Primary among the topics he was asked to address. How the targets could drop from one, sixty, six to seventy receptions could drop from one hundred eleven to forty two and the receiving yards could drop from one, thousand, four, hundred, six, in two, thousand, eighteen to five, hundred, and fifty two lasts lie that a lot of that had to do with Ben Rothlisberger missing all but six quarters of the season but Juju. Smith, Schuster was also the guy he was the number one receiver for the first time that was an adjustment and he was also injured and missed some time and played at less than one hundred percent some of the time and all three of those things definitely different with our Juju described it he. Is endeavoring to be better prepared for whatever gets thrown at them this year, he spent the off season working out one on one with a performance coach rather than in small groups of players as he had done previously he said he's probably the lightest I've been an a little quicker juju said He's more lean more ripped. So he's hoping that that will facilitate a bounce back year, and he also talked about wanting to know the entire offense and check this nugget out previously he's played either outside or inside in the slot this year, he also wants to be able to play on the backside and Juju here in the backfield as a running back. Now. Didn't get a chance follow up on that. But one of the kind of ongoing themes here that everybody's trying to figure out is to what degree will the new quarterbacks coach Matt Candida influence the offense Canada is a misdirection motion guy and the steelers were big out of one of those things. But Randy we've heard from deontay Johnson, talking about a bunch of new motions. what might Canada contribute? They're not going to rebuild the whole thing, but I'm starting to think it's going to have a little bit of his signature. Well it I. I you know I've been complaining Ad Nauseam. About not taking jk Dobbins and really shoring up the backfield but now that I know that. They drafted receiver with their first draft pick in order to put Juju in the backfield they've just makes sense. That makes sense to me. Let's do a bunch of dumb bricker, a personnel BS. Instead of just putting a ball in the backfield and making Juju, fly down the field and have been throwing the ball. Am I overreacting to one statement that you ten minutes ago. Yes. Yeah there's no training camp and we're in a pandemic. I'm trying to make chicken salad out of this. I think the idea is probably put him in motion out of the Backfield I'm just GonNa, take a wild guess. They're not gonNA give it to Juju on fourth and one up the gut in the A gap. But tweaks nuances particularly early in the season when people don't have tape of you from the preseason because there's no preseason home is the little guy used to say it's August paid Democ I'm intrigue about how many times they put a guy motion before the snap. I'm waiting for him to go into the backfield and like three other guys go. Hey Man I'm already back here. It's crowded. crowded. Juju Smith, Schuster also asked about his contract three times once directly twice indirectly nothing happening on that front. But the good news is didn't Jalen, Ramsey the zoom and get up and leave, and then come back. You just handle it like you're supposed to handle. It just worked his way through. So good stuff. There still is putting the pads on for the first time today at Heights Field the pirates have today off. There was some thought initially that they play a doubleheader against the reds today since they had Saturday and Sunday games postponed due to a reds player testing positive for the coronavirus but that was not determined the best course by Major. League Baseball. So it's not off day today and in Cleveland is here starting tomorrow the good news. Hey, the bucks four and fourteen on the season but they're still beating the virus. Here's manager Derek shelter. And we tested yesterday and we touch it again today. A with yesterday's test we were all negative. So I I don't get the reds information or what's there but that's that's normal. You know I wouldn't get their. Tests in a normal situation. The Indians tomorrow, the hockey playoffs moving along despite some unforeseen developments those would include to Rask opting out for the Bruins mid Series Against Carolina Club. Having to leave the Canadians to have a heart procedure, he had a stent inserted he is going to miss. The. Remainder of the Philadelphia series at the Canadians are currently playing that at least is the expectation Marc Andre Fleury Got Start for the Vegas Golden Knights in game three against the Blackhawks and won the game two to one the flurry back on the bench yesterday in favor of Robin, later and Chicago able to stave off elimination four more games today and tonight Tampa Bay against Columbus at three, two to one. Lightning lead their Colorado and Arizona at five thirty. It is two to one in Colorado's favor a Boston, Carolina eight o'clock two to one bruins and Saint Louis and Vancouver play again tonight at ten thirty the blues winning in overtime yesterday two to one there they are trailing in that series to two one despite yesterday's win everything going on today except baseball but between steeler camping hockey more than enough guys. Quick break, we'll come back more tributes. Woodstock is we're celebrating the fifty first anniversary of those three days up on Max Yasser's farm. That's next deep. Randy bomb and the DVD morning show along with Bill Crawford and Mike Pursuit and we've been celebrating the. Anniversary of Woodstock. ICONIC performances. From the music festival. Fifty one years ago August fifteenth to the eighteenth. BETHEL is at Bethel. Woods. Is that were that really went down the original woodstock wasn't actually in Woodstock New York. They had to move it. But we played crosby stills and Nash do in Sweet Judy Blue, eyes earlier, which was their second ever performance together after doing a concert in. CHICAGO, they went to Woodstock and play in front a half a million people and just kill it amazing and then Richie havens iconic freedom which he made up on the spot, and then it became his signature song after that. Made Him world famous. And now, another one which I think that you immediately associate with Woodstock Joe. Cocker's rendition with a little help from my friends which not only became. SORT. Of sonically attached to woodstock forever. But. The imagery of his performance. Launched Joe Cocker into. The zeitgeist. It became. that. was his identity the sweaty. freaking out guy that John Belushi did a spot on impersonation of SNL. Few years later, I seen in the Academy Award winning, movie documentary about Woodstock something I didn't know the original version of the. Cover of the Beatles. Classic the studio version of with a little help from my friends from Joe Cocker Jimmy Page played guitar on that I can't believe I never knew that. So that screaming guitar, you hear that's Jimmy page on the album version the drummer from Oklahoma bj Wilson is on that too. I had no idea. A Blue Sean McDonald ever told you that. He might have but I might have forgotten due to other circumstances surrounding. US. by. Live version. From Woodstock. Here's Joe Cocker the. War. Georgia to do. The. Whole follow. Own. You saw. Say. Now. Hello Appear. Ah. Learn. Law. Sure Wrong. More. A. Among friends together. Ran. Out You. Grab. A. The News. Again. Devi morning show woodstock remembered fifty one years ago. Joe Cocker with the Grease Band there they played on day three. They were the first band of day three. Sunday of Woodstock and the Grease Band of course made up by some rock legends the Keyboardist of course, Chris Stainton and also. The Guitar Player? Henry McCullough was later the guitar player and Wings With Paul McCartney? So They had some pretty bad on onstage I. always loved. That version of the tune because it doesn't have the big choir like the mad dogs and Englishmen had. It's just like this dude. Who Job? Even, do it okay job, but it's just. A. Couple of guys using their falsetto there Mike. I saw Joe Cocker. This had to be at least twenty years ago maybe twenty five and it was down in the DC area their version of Star Lake, which I think was called a Nissan pavilion at the time and it's you know it's a big outdoor venue fifteen or twenty thousand people. I think when the show is getting ready to start. I think there were three hundred people in there I mean it was as if they forgot to sell tickets but they didn't cancel it and Joe Cocker looked around and saw any wave everybody down to the front. And he played whoever was there right at stage side and he His backside light to be that Yahweh true pro that he was out there to do his performance and he didn't care for it was thirty, thousand, three, hundred they were going to get the best Joe Cocker ad and it was phenomenal. Treat for you. Right. That sounds awesome awesome. It's pretty cool. So Earlier, we talked about the Berkshire was in town. This past weekend bill was at the starlight drive in. And attended the first of two sold out shows. And in the show you saw he retold the Tracy Morgan story which. To our knowledge, he didn't tell on stage until he did it. Here, at the Comedy Festival at the REX theatre second stage and it was because he jim brewer who had never met before that this is the first time they're hanging out. And they were sharing some stories about how Jay more. co-opted burt story and started using it on his as his closer. He used it on a special I believed after burt told him the story and Jay said if you don't use that I'm I'm I'm GonNa use that, and then he just used it. So now. We have put up the original retailing of this with Jim Breuer doing the Tracy Morgan Parts. If you've never heard it, it's Kinda Long. Here's a brief clip of that live from the DVD comedy festival back in two thousand twelve bill. Yeah. I. So. So the so then he gets done is set and he comes out in the asked me if I'd like to get high. Are No. Tracing. Yeah love to an adult. Let's do this. So So we go around the corner and he likes joint and he hits it. And then he? To me and I hit it the second I hit it. I feel glass shoot down my throat and I looked to Tracy I go what is this and he says your. Red were. Your head. Coach, doing. On. What he was. On. My serve. And that's what I realized I smoke. PCP. All right. It is an amazing retelling of. With color commentary from Jim Breuer, you don't WanNa. Miss that one. We put the entire thing up for you. If it's not there yet, it will be shortly it'll be on the podcast page which you can, of course iheartradio dot, com logon type in Randy Bama. Devi morning show at POPs up really anywhere. You get podcasts you'll be able to find a so don't forget if you have. The ability. Or rather you? Don't have the ability to listen to the show. Each and every day we have it in podcast form start to finish available with iheartradio or really anywhere. That you listen to podcasts. You'll find us, and of course, that is all brought to you by our sponsors, Boorda's and Boorda's thanks to Missy Matthew Smarter. The show billy Gardell will be back. And that's it. That's all we got shells coming up next with the electric lunch at noon. Have a great day of. I'm. You stay classy Pittsburgh don't touch your face.

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Let It Roll: 'Hard Rock Vs. Soft Rock', 'AM Vs. FM'- Ed Ward's History Of Rock & Roll

Pantheon

1:01:23 hr | 8 months ago

Let It Roll: 'Hard Rock Vs. Soft Rock', 'AM Vs. FM'- Ed Ward's History Of Rock & Roll

"Welcome to let it roll the podcast about how why popular music happens hosted by Nate Wilcox. Follow the literal podcast on twitter at let it roll cast the check out our website at let it roll podcast dot com. Let it. Roll is Pantheon podcast you can listen to all the other great champion podcasts at www dot. The PODCASTS DOT com. Today Edward. May, talk about the split between am and FM hard, rock and soft. Rock and John Paul George and Ringo. Pop in those ear buds and enjoy. The let it roll host Nate Wilcox, and I have the distinct pleasure of welcoming back Ed Ward the author of the history of rock and roll volume, two, nine, hundred, sixty, four to nineteen, seventy, seven, the Beatles the stones and the rise of classic rock today we're going to be discussing Chapter Seven Long Live Rock, which opens with discussion about the Big Beatles versus the stones debates. Tell us about that. Well! I eventually figured out was the Beatles versus stones. Thing was the same as the. Commercial versus Authentic argument in other words is mostly not. Not An argument I mean these things have always coexisted and Continue to do so the thing is that the difference was the Beatles. Increasingly became a band that could only function in studio rather time of revolver. They got to the point where they couldn't blessed of live so they. Just made records and didn't tour whereas stones. Were more authentic Kinda guys, and they played. Music could be reduced live and continue to do so. And also, if like, if you listen to say the stones got live. If you wanted album on, attract like under my thumb, which Miranda's and multiple layers of acoustic guitars in extra base, then just covered it like there were a high school garage band and just didn't deal with any of that crap. They were not paralyzed by Ino Oh my. We've got to have that extra keyboard partner anything. They're just like we're. We're a garage rock band where to go and blow it up, so yeah I mean, and this is why, because his sons were copy Abo-. Other bands why there was this divide. And they also were playing. Three court. Songs didn't have all those fancy. Beatles cords that gotTa Glen. Matlock fired from the sex pistols later on, but. It's also. There's a class divide here I mean the Beatles are are working. Class astounds or middle class, but as performers that kind of flip flopped and the Beatles had more of an upper class upper middle class audience in the stands, one more abandoned people. Well, it's the the real divide is between. And Rock. POB has always existed, and you can't make the Chart Celeste. You're popular and and there's A. Concession. Of manufactured music. which went became. And not anything wrong with that, but it's a different thing. And edged. The sons are easy to. was. On worried. Your band and try to play live. There's always been this kind of snobbery against properties. Because it isn't something that's easily done. And so therefore the author. Guys, you know the the Rock, guys. They're just thing it. Whereas you know if you're playing rock music and. It's not the thing that. People WanNa hear again. It's not popular music. Although sometimes, it can be popular, but it's not quite the mainstream, but there's a lot of divides in this period we're talking about. It's not just pop versus rocker Beatles versus stones. There's also the whole am versus FM singles versus albums divide. Right, exactly, that's because each there is a new or Matt. Whereby seven eight nine minutes on song takes a whole side and twenty minute side of an album. Become something that is liable or Consumption outside the home you know you can. Here's the stuff on the radio and. It's somehow considered more important or more interesting I. The people who who don't actually play music. A lottery for I think was a correlating factors. Wow! Smoking lots of pot I think contributed as well. Yeah enjoyment of long slow jams and complicated song, introductions and elaborate altro and the whole bit. Well there's. A bunch of people who wanted to believe that rock was art and They went about it the wrong way instead of making their own art they used. The Art of the past to try and legitimize the music that they were making, and you know that just doesn't work. Although it did sell a lot of concert tickets in albums for him recently Palmer, but we'll get to the prog rockers it a bit I wanna i WanNa talk about what the Beatles are up to an aftermath of that break-up. We've got John. Lennon and George Harrison bringing in Phil Spector to replace George Martin, and producing a string of Espresso for George. Harrison very commercially successful singles, albums John, Lennon as a pretty up and down track commercially and artistically. It's more of a downgrade. He starts out great and and Kinda slides. Right. Lenham leading was in trouble he. was facing a lawsuit for more sleepy for. Using Material from Chuck Berry in his son come together, and as a result lots the he lost awesome and had to record an album for Levy. and. So he dash off. Something called Rock and roll, which was an album of cover tunes from his childhood, and that kind of impeded his forward progress, whereas George and hall didn't have that kind of thing worry about. Yeah in Georgia in particular. Just explodes with songs that that songs had been rejected by the Beatles and puts them into a triple album, the first triple album to definitely the first triple album never hit number one possibly the first triple album ever released, although one album is as a one of LP's is jammed collection, but as a double album of great songs with elaborate Phil Spector production, he and he. Throws in the whole kitchen sake. They've got the full spectrum treatment to drums. And three or four acoustic guitars on every track. It's just a big big. Phil Spector Sound. Bush triple album though that would have been woodstock soundtrack. Good catch it. Catch me while Paul, and Ringo are going down very different paths. Ball is is now freed to write pure pop. Things I've silly love songs and sounds like that which really where he's always wanted to be, or he was maybe the COP influence on John when Lennon McCartney was a going concern. Perhaps all the. You know John Route seven out of ten songs on a hard day's night so certainly. Leonard was a master the pop form. Let, buddy was Heart close pushed him in that direction some of the time. Yeah and without John Edit out things and say no. We're not going to do that. Paul Kinda ran wild also have always wondered if the whole Paul is dead, thing Chose this enormous conspiracy theory started on underground radio in the states that culminated in Paul, having to come out of seclusion to say I'm not dead, but he never was quite the same. I mean you know this is the guy who did sergeant pepper's? In Abbey Road and was very ambitious artistically and in the seventies. He's doing things like. Mary had a little lamb. I'm. Actually they all soon watch the plot. Around then and and as a result member of their records really sold that much the only reason that George is triple album hit. The top of the charts were because the top of the charts? Is! Measured as much by the amount of money and album brings in. as as it is the the number sales so therefore a. Record price three times. The pro price of a single is going to automatically charged higher than. That a single shingle? But he did Organiz the concert for Bangladesh, which brought Bob Dylan album seclusion by their Clapton seclusion, and was a huge success in for a while. George Harrison seemingly had taken on the mantle of the Beatles as far as the leader of the youth movement. I yes, I mean. Although it is. Impact on. The culture. Generally was diminished partially. Because as you know, his views were odd championing carring KRISTA which. Induce! Deride and Also you know, here's a mill vegetarian runs. To oddly mainstream. Yeah always sort of had a sanctimonious town about. Let's hear a little snippet of George Harrison with Eric Clapton. Concert, doing while my guitar gently weeps, attract the clapped played on the original Beatles version on the white album. And that was George. Harrison live at the concert for Bangladesh in New York a concert. He had hoped to reunite the Beatles forward. He couldn't get Paul and John to cooperate. Ringo was their faithful Ringo and Bob Dylan came out, and it was a huge excessive turned away. Crosby stills Nash so it was a very big deal, but this. Eric Clapton, George Harrison connection with people like Leon Russell and Phil Spector. It's sort of this merging of the US. Studio Assembly Line Structure in the Phil Spector Rock. Orchestra structure with the British rock scene, and and clapping actually goes out on tour, and even George joins at briefly with a with a group called Delaney and Bonnie. Yeah and. It's not quite a lot of the previous generations. Big Stars were looking back when they were just guys in band. And I mean I remember clapper in saying that as A aside ban on loaning money to her I. Just want to be a deterrent. And and certainly big break from the overblown, high bad faith, which was abandoned, put together with Steve Winwood and I'm Ginger Baker after the collapse of cream and they had the road packing stadiums when they hadn't even rehearsed a full set, so he'd he'd led to their this. Incredible hype and pressure, and wanted to get away from it all ends up stealing Delaney's band and putting together a low key combo, called Derek and the Dominos. Recruits Dwayne Allman to come in for the session. Just serendipitous move and we'll talk about almond brothers and the minute, but. Put together a double album of his own Lila, that is a slow burn. It takes almost a year to hit the charts so their big way. About the Derek and the Dominos Albumin? It wasn't geared for product consumption. The obvious single there was layla. Title track, but it was way too long for a single for forty five, and that's what drives the charts forty fives so The record was selling. It wasn't selling. In huge quantities, or it was probably selling enough. To. Use the dollar metric to ascend the charts? But it was the only place you could hear it. On Radio WAS NOT FM radio and so. Eric Clapton disappeared from the. Listeners conscious although. PEOPLE LISTEN TO FM radio. Could. Handle long traction so for they got here. And in a similar way to Michael Bloomfield who we talked about on past? Clapton in Bloomfield retreat from the scene in the incident heroin addiction and get real both of them get real quiet for a long time. Yeah. and. Clapton's on Atlantic the the I wanNA, mention that the Beatles had spun off onto apple records, which is really still capital in am I, but they have their own label, and the rolling stones something similar, an arrogant of Atlantic is just out there signing up everybody. He's already hit big with led Zeppelin. Crosby Stills Nash Iron Butterfly and he gets the stones at the cost of giving them their own label rolling stones records. What do they do that? Not much. Recorded a couple of albums I think Wyman as as an album. Rowley says they really said Jam record with the Nicki Hopkins. Player. Really Rolling Stones. Records was for the rolling stones albums. What it did was got them better distribution. And realized there royalty structure, but. You know the average consumer did know about that? And and they are have been heroine struggles of their own Keith Richards sort of taken the Brian Jones role as the band fuck up missing sessions and fortunately Mick Taylor's able to step up and Mick Jagger and Keith is in and out and produces some great work in between. Just missing sessions, and so they put out sticky fingers next on Main Street, but by the time God had soup. Both Keith in producer Jimmy. Miller are well gone on the heroin train. Yeah and Also exile mainstream got. Trouble! They were living in France to get away from some of the more onerous. Tax Laws of the United Kingdom and They were attracting way too much attention. Their drug use, and and some of their public antics in France in. A judgment trouble with the law. And inspired future Keith. Songs like before. They make me run because he's. On the run from authorities all the time, and if I'd we have talked about yet, but it was very big in this period is nascent divide between mellow or soft rock and hard rock. Yeah, that's that's true. South Rodgers appealed to the mainstream radio programmers, and also you know to people like the. Crowd running rolling stone? It was. About bands you know you you didn't have your favorite beetle. On the sudden. You had one person James Taylor Carly Simon. Carole King Stephen's. Yes, so you focus on that. You didn't care playing bass. WHO's a drummer was on that track? You know it's just. Something you ignored it, and it was a way to make individuals into stars at Yelm, and even some of the first generation British rockers like Van Morrison Gun that way. Yeah they They wanted the focus I loose sells. You know that that's what so ours is all about. and. Then was performed with the same band. he. He didn't call attention who they were. And at the same time as we've got a soft rock, saying we've also got what you call, the new mor represented by groups like the fifth dimension and the carpenters. and. You know even people who appeared to be rock act like the DOOBIE, brothers, skills and. These were the people were making the charge. Some of it is pretty well crafted pop like Jimmy Webb. wrote a whole album for the fifth dimension, rather first heads, and then some pretty elaborate arrangements and production, so it wasn't as pitfall, although if it was being rammed on your throat nonstop twenty, four seven in the early seventies, I imagine I got pretty annoying. Yeah. It was ramp down your throat because it was you know it was something that could be controlled unsold, which is the? The banner, the record industry's I always always carried they. Don't want individual creative. Groups you know like like the Beatles making trouble. They. They want you know a guy and a band and. They can change the band around any way they want to. Meanwhile as long as the genius for person keeps producing some Janus there. Anyone on the other side of the hard soft divide. You've got a wave of British bands that came out of the blue scene and a sixties beat scene. Alzheimer's Jimmy Page Jeff back or putting together these new combinations like led Zeppelin and the Jeff Beck group that are bigger and louder and selling a lot, more records and more concert tickets in. Anybody's ever sold before. Resolve so the problem in that the female demographic was utterly ignored by those people and also the Put this. There was A. There was room for parody and character in the words they were doing so you wind up with? People like iron maiden, and you know more not well. What are men's well down the road, though outside of our scope? I know it leads to that. They were preparing the ground for that. Absolutely absolutely, but at the same time black Sabbath strikes an immense court right away, and in retrospect has some of the most direct commentary about the Vietnam War of any ban going. Oh, yeah, they they were, but they wanted it in this whole gloom and doom. Pro Gun. Atmosphere that struck accords amount teenagers. And One guy in this hard rock segment, who didn't leave the girls out was Rod Stewart, his from the Jeff. Beck Group and joins up with the faces, which is the remains of the small faces after Steve. Mariot left a phone. Humble Pie. Peter Frampton what was different about Rod. Stewart Ronnie Wood in the faces from these other hard and heavy bands. Well. One thing is roadster was at heart he he had been. You know performing, Acoustic. Guitar Street quarters for some of his career and you know he he. Likes fans but. He wasn't wedge to writing his own material he he was cool with interpretation. he's like a louder sound than must focus would would want, but there there were you know heavily acoustic tracks on his records. And he also did these really interesting radical reconstructions of songs, and let's let's hear a song that he basically tore apart and started over. This is Rod Stewart on a solo album I think backed by much the faces doing the stonestreet fighting man. Charge. Of. That was Rod Stewart saying the Rolling Stones Streetfighting Man, and there's a lot of different stories about how he came to Rearrange Song so radically. He was just saying in a different song band replying, say a little Richard Number and he would just start seeing stones number, but whatever it was. It was very different and it took a while to click commercially. But because a relentless touring with the faces and the states eventually, he hits big. His so a band, which which I saw him frigging resolvable. Peak like Micky Waller. Drums who had been Jeff Becker with them. Right. It was. It was just not. As hard as faces and. Definitely confrontation and know. Anything that was shocked. That was a shock to the system. was very much favored by the rock. And there's we've talked about the British. Section of the hard rock school. There's also an American wing which has some differences you've got sort of some lumbering behemoths like grand funk railroad after Detroit that sort of the mantle of the MC five who had collapsed in. Acrimony and drug addiction. And bows with their record, company and political fights. But groups like the grand funk railroad and James Gang. Sort of Segue, there's the winner brothers Johnny. Winter Edgar Winter. And then there's groups like the almond brothers who are more connected to the blues, tradition and the jazz tradition, and and head legit cried and sort of combined both the improvisational style, the grateful dead, the new heavy rock sound. Right I was going to say he's. Very much. To the taste of dead. Anybody Dropping Stan gone to the fillmore and people who actually enjoy jam records. The jamming in the allman brothers and James Gang was a little more structured and easier to follow. Yeah, I mean they are legit virtuoso musicians, and and deeply connected to the American musical tradition in a way that Michael Bloomfield had been, but bans like grand funk railroad just were not. Grandfather road was. A AH backing band. A. Frontman became their producer and That they really were an organic kind of kind of bandwagon, younger brothers were or you know. James Chang, who is. In your title Cincinnati Opening Band. At the almonds also create a new genre that comes to fruition, a couple over next couple of years with bands, like Leonard Skinner and Z. Z. Top southern rock becomes a thing. Right, and that night was when it became more influenced by country, music and country music became more ankles like this, which is interesting. I mean the Marshall. Tucker Band is important part of this equation where? One of their rouge was not under their names under hate Williams Juniors name. Decides, you know cast off the battle of his ancestry and do his things. And there's also a Willie and Waylon in the whole outlaw country genre that it's bubbling under, and we'll get to Nashville in a bit, but first I want a segue back to one group that tried to square the circle and combined soft rock with hard rock and I'm talking about crosby stills. Nash shoe put out an album debut album. Atlantic. That sells mentally. They played their second gig ever at Woodstock in their immediately big favorites, even though they have difficulties recreating their harmonies as in there, I mean they're basically living Rabanne of guys sitting singing, Acoustic Guitars, and here they are playing stadiums, so they bring it Neil Young of all people who had bitterly laughed Steve Sills last band, Buffalo Springfield but still who's this virtuoso play? The Guitar Bass Parts on the album's wanted to also be able to rock, so he brings his old partner back and they succeed for a while. But totally tears the group apart. And also, they were not quite ready for the stadium. They I mean I know when they did their live album for way. Street and none of the vocals on that are live were all done studio because they simply could not do it stage most todd, yeah, the cocaine and harmony singing and massive stadium sound speaker systems without really quality monitor, so they couldn't hear themselves. They're trying to compete with Marshall Stacks and trying to hit, not really complicated. Complicated harmony parts, but Graham Nash, for example is singing in a high register. Because the other two guys are failing to register, he normally be in, and so yeah, it just didn't quite work live, but they are the center of a scene in Laurel Canyon in La. That's going to have a big impact on the music business throughout the seventies and two guys on the business. Side, David, Geffen and Elliot, Roberts planned enormous role in the see. They were they manager and. The Labour will connection for allow these people and. They. Basically were go-to guys for talent from Los Angeles. And they lock up a monopoly on. People Linda Ronstadt and her backing group, which includes a couple of guys in Glenn. Frey and DON Henley who go into bigger things. Yeah I mean. They knew that she had to have a regular bad. This is the problem slow artist. WHO's the so? person the singer. This person was in the spotlight, and you know these guys operating which pushing back and. You know everybody wants to work with the same guys every night. Who are they and? The. Backup. Began to have an identity of its own, and they wound up. Playing And writing songs, some of which went to hurt. Yeah and Andrew. And everybody. Sorry everybody makes mountains of money in this period. or not everybody but a lot of people. Well there is a lot of money flooding. The music business. And there's also sort of a restoration of the songwriter ditch. Even Carole King, you know one of the great behind the scenes, songwriters of the early sixties in partnership with Gerry Goffin goes on to become a solo front woman in her own with her tapestry album, and sells gazillion records, but people like Laura Narrow, take the opposite track retreat from public performance and right big pop songs, and there's Lor narrow. Harry Nelson Randy Newman and Jimmy Webb. You've already mentioned. Young. People were not. Organic for forward Keno guys who stepped out of the front of a band to go so low I mean randy knew what it was always so he? He was writing. Contra contract songwriter. And the first training even saw. People heard were. Other. People's records. People three dog night, who had number one hits with Newman and Nelson, songs and Nelson has number ones with a song, or at least as a whole album of new songs, and has a number one with a Fred Neilsen correction by. One Guy who's a songwriter who does emerge as a performer, and even though he's from England, he really yikes free in l.. A. And I'm talking about Elton John. Well Know John was was. Pretty much. preprogramed to. United States He was just one of a number of struggling songwriters, but he got signed to an MCA subsidiary. The big hype was. Debut performance and Troubadour in Los Angeles where his PR man hired English Double Decker bus to go down sunset boulevard, and and there was much hype in the press and. It, was you know? I actually. It's embarrassing I suppose. Let her get away. I I took the record. I listen. Let so good. But, then my ears were tuned towards pop music. I wanted something else. He was obviously not delivering. were. Like I don't know, they didn't mean anything not. Mean anything they really did not mean anything. They showed no emotional depth, another covered by Bernie Taupin in, and they had an unusual practice of top right. The lyrics on paper and Elton John Put into music to him. Yeah,