20 Episode results for "Gordon Hayward"

Inside Gordon Hayward's Misery-Filled Fight

Doublestruck Stories

34:07 min | 2 years ago

Inside Gordon Hayward's Misery-Filled Fight

"Let me double truck stories the home to some of the best features investigations, character portraits from across the Spion. I Mike Philbrick your host of the double truck stories podcast. Remember subscriber double stories podcast on the ESPN app apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts Gordon, Hayward, gruesome ankle injury, Amir, five minutes into his tenure with the Celtics was the talk of the sports world, but then like all stories are short attention spans moved us onto the next thing. But since that day Gordon Hayward has been. His lucky is live this injury twenty four, seven as he went through a seemingly endless rehab full of fewer highs and lows all while watching from far as his new teammates came within one game of the finals. And as we approach the next NBA season, Haywood struggles are still not over. Stick around after the story from my conversation with ESPN senior writer, Zach Lowe, as we talk about how the road to recovery can be full of potholes. Now he present inside Gordon, Hayward misery filled fight to play again by Vaclav. On August twenty eight that Saint Bernard high school in Los Angeles about two dozen scouts players and trainers watched as Gordon Hayward and Bradley Beal lined up to play one on one. It was Hayward's first time playing one on one against an NBA starter since undergoing an unexpected. Second surgery in late may to remove a plate and screws from around the left ankle Hayward shattered five minutes into his Celtics career, the discovery that needed another surgery had devastated Hayward it through his rehabilitation timetable into disarray by August twenty eighth. He was supposed to have been months into five on five games against NBA competition. Now he was easing into one on one. I wasn't thinking, I'm going to kill this guy. Hayward told ESPN dot com. Tuesday night after another disappointing preseason game for the Celtics. I was thinking it would show me what I needed to work on. Beal told drew Hanlin the popular skills trainer who holds. Court at Saint Bernard and tinkered with Hayward's game over the summer that he was confident they started from the post and it could only dribble twice before shooting. Then they moved to the perimeter and allow themselves three dribbles Hayward swept five straight games. He surprised the hell out of me. Beal says, Bill called Mark bartlestein the agent who represents both. I have good news and bad news Beal said the two recalled I might suck. But Gordon is one hundred percent back. It was a watershed moment for Hayward. I glimpse of hope after a year of arduous rehab, intense anxiety and the gut punch of a second operation. I was definitely surprised. Hayward says there have been so many low moments that was a huge, huge confidence booster. Bullying Beal was a great sign hand linen, Hayward. New defenses would switch against Boston's best lineups. They spent much of the summer working on posting up smaller players, but relying on. One on one work as September approached was also a reminder of how far behind Hayward wise it is showing so far in the preseason. Hayward is just five of twenty from the floor and has committed eight thousand fifty, nine minutes physically. I feel pretty good Hayward says, but I don't feel comfortable on the floor yet. It's one thing to be physically able to do everything. It's another to be a basketball player, the timing and the rhythms when you've been playing along time, you just know. But not after you take a huge break and come back to a new system. The second surgery was such a setback. I was really looking forward to playing five on five, the whole summer. What I'm going through now is what I wanted to do in the summer, but it didn't work out that way. Hayward had just started to run full speed and play one on one in late may when doctors concluded it was best to remove the plate and screws Hayward had been feeling pain around his ankle for months. He agitated for the surgery Earl. Earlier, fearing an operation in may or June would sabotages summer hindsight is twenty twenty. He says, but I wish we had knocked this out in March doctors and Celtics officials cautioned that no one should undergo a second operation if they don't absolutely have to Hayward recalls. They needed to determine if something other than the plate. Some issue that would go away was causing the year tation. That process took time. I was miserable. Hayward says to go back into a walking boot after all that progress back on crutches. That was my lowest moment. I felt terrible for him says, Danny Ainge. Boston's GM Hayward's lows can get really low. That's how I'm wired. He says, I stress stress. People close to him, have long known to expect calls from a despondent Hayward after so-so games. Hayward has trouble sleeping on those nights. He says, friends hoped the year away would change that he would miss the game. Rediscover the joy of it, fixate less all mistakes. Perhaps the Celtics success without him would ease Hayward, self-imposed pressure upon his return. It's just basketball says Jason Smethers a trainer who is among Hayward's closest friends and lived with him for most of last year on this team, you were allowed to have a bad game. Hayward tried to internalize that. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it hurts to watch Boston thrive without him when you go down, like I did after changing teams, it's just not supposed to happen that way. He says it's just the nature of being a competitor. You wanna feel like you're missed and I was missed. But when you watch them rattle off sixteen in a row, those negative thoughts creep in it was tough sitting and watching right now. It's tough playing on the way home from Sunday's game against Charlotte, in which haywar shot one of seven and committed five thousand twenty one minutes. He called bartlestein to mope. Bartlestein told him to focus on his chase down block of Jeremy lamb proof. He could get up and then land hard on that left leg. That was their routine during Hayward's year. Rebuilding leg Hayward would call bartlestein and lament every setback. The days he felt more pain when it took him longer than usual to pluck marbles off the ground with his toes a game. He and smothers invented when he took a small step, backward own some test of balance, originality after consoling, Hayward bartlestein would phone Smethers and the two other permanent members of Hayward's rehab crew, Steve mount, the Celtics rehabilitation manager and Tyler eaten their strength and conditioning coach for their take on the day's work. I would get a completely different version from them. Bartlestein says his conversations with Hayward always into the same way. I would give him s about being completely out of his mind bartlestein says, but that perfectionism dissecting everything. One hundred times. That's what makes him who. He is Hayward's competitive nature. Got him through the drudgery. We hear all the time about how professional athletes are maniacally competitive. They all hate losing boardgames. Hayward is maniacal even by those standards. He turned every part of his rehabilitation into a competition every morning over Starbucks. He and smothers would play a best of three series of the video game clash royale with the winner earning the right to talk trash for the rest of the day. Hayward famously turned the marble picking exercise into a timed race and bet against anyone, willing to challenge him in a contest of half court shots attempted from a chair, Hayward used various grip strengthening exercises to distract himself during Celtics games. One favourite unfold several pages of a newspaper and pile them on top of each other place. One hand in the middle, and using only that hand attempt to crumple all of the paper up into a ball that fits into your palm sound easy. Dude. They would says it light. At your hand on fire in January Hayward, decided it was time to put Smethers eaten and mount through some competition. He was tired of listening to them argue about who was the best athlete. He's a misery, loves company kind of guy. Smother says Hayward created Gordon's grand gauntlet eight, a Catholic esque set of events that included a mile, Ron, a one hundred yard dash driving and putting contests attest of who could throw a baseball farther an endurance test on an exercise bike and trivia contest. Pay word wrote the questions himself. We were pretty f- in board really is what it was. Hayward says, laughing when mount and Smethers pedaled the same virtual distance over three minutes on the resistance bike, Hayward made them start over. There had to be a distinct finishing order in each event. No ties during Hayward's pool work at Boston's old practice facility Smethers and mouth. Talked trash about who would win a swimming race. Hayward finally demanded. They settle it. Mount one staffers set up a makeshift podium for a medal ceremony. Hayward found a way to have the Australian national anthem. Mount is Australian Blair as mount draped, a wait around his neck as a metal when Hayward needed brakes. He would take patriots practice what ball gift from Tom Brady and he had all over the Celtics silty inventing contests with Smethers who could sling the ball between those two lights hanging from the ceiling and hit a target on the wall. The ball eventually got stuck in fixture. Hayward, never retrieved it in late July, about two months after the plate removal surgery, Hayward was finally ready to run full speed again at a training facility called excess and San Diego. Staffers set up. A beep test. Run for him. Pay word was to run back and forth between two points changing directions. Each time, a peop- sounded the beep started infrequent intervals. So the runner can begin a casual jog. The interval shrinks as the test proceeds anytime a beep beats. The runner. The test ends smothers watch to make sure Hayward didn't over exert himself Scott Morrison as Celtics assistant visiting Hayward at the time decided he would join if there was ever a chance to beat him at anything athletic. This was it. Morrison says they went on and on faster and faster. Smethers was surprised. Hayward was still going Hayward. Was the prized Morrison was still going. There was absolutely no way I was losing to a forty year old. Hayward says it can't happen even if it was my first time running in a long time. Morrison is forty one for the record. Morrison finally gave out Hayward, ran one last spread stopped and gloated it was okay. I one that's enough. He says today, it's ping pong. Hayward has his own panel when he saw the pool table. And the Celtics new practice facility. He badgered staff about buying a ping pong table topper until they finally caved pay word supervised the purchasing of paddles so that everyone would have good ones. He was undefeated until mount secretly swiped Hayward's, personal paddle, replaced it with a generic one and beat him as much of the staff watched mount, then revealed what he had done. Hayward has since been more careful. Hayward wants to hang a whiteboard next to the table where he can scribble updated pong rankings. This is how Hayward past time during his rehab process that is over now, the games are happening, and there is more to sort out then Hayward anticipated in January and February when his rehab was on course, when a second surgery was unlikely. Worst case scenario, it's just rebuilding habits, remembering the right time to cut or how to guard a simple action. Brad Stevens. Boston's coach tell. ESPN dot com. Those are the things you don't think about when you're running or playing one on one. Now you have this big five on five game to play to my is he looks fine. Physically the more complex layer, figuring out how Hayward fits in a loaded starting lineup featuring two young stars Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum who blossomed in his absence in preseason action, Hayward, Brown, and Tatum have been almost indistinguishable in terms of role. They work as secondary options around Kyrie Irving, pick and rolls ready to attack a scramble, defensive, urban kicks the ball, Hanlin and Hayward worked much of the summer with that situation mind. They honed Hayward's pump fake so that it would be more convincing coaxing defenders into flying by him. They drilled slow ball, fix, shoulder, fakes, Chen fakes eyebrow fakes. The first bounce by that defender is the easy part Hayward Hanlin focused on the second and third triples the. The ones that puncture defense, Hayward, practiced, keeping his dribble alive, even when help defenders step up to protect the ram. One trick having Hayward lower his shoulder into that defender's chest plant his foot and time dribble so that the ball and that foot hit the floor at the same time, meaning he would still have a live bounce after the collision Hanlin designed many of those drills so that Hayward planted off his left foot. He had to trust it again. Hanlin says Hanlin showed Hayward film of some of the league's shifty est ball handlers, including CJ McCollum having three and really four. If you count Al Horford, elite secondary options, it's great to win championships. You need to collect so much talent that a few people end up in roles for which they are overqualified. But Hayward might be the best decision maker and passer among Boston's perimeter players and perhaps the best on the team neck and neck with Horford as he gets his legs under him. Boston will need to balance the off. Offense. So that Hayward gets some time at the controls that will happen organically as Stevens staggers minutes, giving Hayward a chance to run lineups heavy on bench players. He'll screen for Irving and unconventional, pick and rolls. If defensive switch, Hayward is ready to drag smaller guys into the post. He says, the Celtics have time to figure the offense out. Everyone understands the sacrifices involved. Everyone is going to have games where they score a lot more than they do another's. Stephen says, I'm not worried about anyone from that standpoint. Everyone will have their chance to shine on defense. Hayward will have to jostle with powerful words. If Boston is to play its most potent lineups, he defended Kevin love and the first half against Cleveland on Tuesday, Brown and Tatum will draw that duty and other matchups. Stephen says, he's a strong guy. Stevens says, he's tough enough Beal agrees after those one on one game, he told Hanlin I didn't realize how country strong. Gordon is handling recalls. Hayward is feeling it all out. He has no doubt he and the team will get there. He just imagines an alternative timeline in which the feeling out process was further along. I wish this could have all happened in the summer. He says, but I'm working through it now. Joining me now is ESPN senior writer, Zach, Lowe, Zach, welcome what's up, sir, where my special vineyard vines close for, you know how offensive. I find the entire vineyard vines brand. I literally grab something I this morning I went wait. Hold on. There's no way on that of seeings Acton. I can't lie. I'm not proud. I'm not proud. I judged people who were in your buns and then they then, but then I meet them like you were friends. It's okay, right? But when I see someone strolling down the street in like vineyard vines and and tuck it reds, I, I, I. I own all that something in me goes off. I'm sorry. It's from your Greenwich up. I know is I just those people have they have to overcome a barrier eventually with me. That's okay. That's okay. Overcome barriers of? I'm just not a pleasant person anyway. So listen, you said that? Not me. Yeah, I did. I thought it. I didn't say it. Fair, fair. So getting, let's go back to Gordon Hayward. This is a very interesting story in the sense that you have a basketball player, someone who's competing sport that. You could very easily argue requires you to be become the best athletes in the world and many respects, and he's probably playing this since he was like ten years old and then you take that away for a brief period of time, and then bang it's back to ground zero and people don't realize how hard it is to get back to that. Now. Would you talk with Gordon Hayward, they? Did you find that was the most jarring part of all this for him. I just thought it was the most interesting story that I could tell in October twenty eighteen. It's like, we're all we're gonna find out how he's gonna fit in the lineup, how good the Celtics are. Like all this questions will be answered to me. I still felt like I hadn't heard enough about like swat. How'd you like pass the time? And part of it was I know a lot of people around him now. Yes. So I could come to him with like, hey, I heard this funny story. I heard this funny story. I heard this funny story, but to him the most jarring thing was and I found this. I did not expect this it maybe I should have. It was stupid that I didn't was having the second surgery unexpectedly. So he had to have the plate and screws removed from his ankle because they were irritating him. And I just sort of, you know how the news comes and goes in filters in one year. Not the other guy. Vaguely knew that this happened. Yeah, but the seriousness of the timing and how it screwed up his rehab calendar just never hit me and to him that was. The lowest moment of his entire year was not the injury, and I was like when they had to do his surgery again. Right. And then just the whole visual in the psychological of curious, looking down himself looking very similar to how he did in October of twenty. Seventeen. Yeah. And, but then as you talked about as we have, you played one on one and doing that, but he still worries about you hear guys all the time of the football side say, oh, yeah, I've been working out every day in the gym. You know, during my holdout, but I'm not in football shape, and now he's teaching us a little bit Gordon Hayward through your story about what it's like to be in basketball shape yet. I think for him, it's more mental than physical adding physically, he's in pretty good shape. He feels like he's one hundred percent is angles hundred percent. Probably his endurance and stuff isn't where it is when he's at like all-star form. But for him, it's like his rhythm is just off. And maybe part of that is again to physically. He's not quite there. I don't know. But his rhythm is often you could see one of the, I went to two games. Recently, Boston one, he had five thousand like eight minutes. He found out in the first half and you could just see like he just would like try to get around to screen on defense and he'd be laid or he get hung up in ways and he would I was watching him and he would just he looked like a ten year old kid who missed a shot, like the body language, the sagging shoulders, the beating himself up. You could tell like, he just couldn't do something was off. And you mentioned that about how his agent Mark bartlestein and his team around him. Like that's part of the especially agent that that's one of their jobs more than anything is to constantly tell him like to your point, don't be the ten year old who missed the shot with the shoulders down. It's not as awful as you think the mental game. Yeah, he is. I mean, I I had known that he's an intensely competitive person even more so than most professional athletes. I didn't realize sorta how in his own head and down on himself. He gets it's very defining part of his personality that the people around him. And they would tell stories about how you know he'd go for fifteen in a game for Utah, and he'd call and be like, it would be like the world was ending. Yeah, you know and they'd be like Gordon, there's not a game tomorrow. Everything's fine men. But as part of also is recovery, we keep talking about the mental part. Did you hear from other people? Because I know I only because I remember when whenever somebody gets hurt, always you hear like Kobe Bryant reached out because you know when he tore his achilles, he reached out to this person that to tell them not about like, oh, you're gonna do this drill on the step master the stairmaster or just the mental part of it. So it's funny mentioned co because before his last season in Utah, he likes secretly went to Newport Beach and trained with Kobe, but that was he was perfectly healthy obviously then, but he didn't want that to get out. I knew about an I asked him about it. He didn't want to get out. I put it out anyway. But I think he didn't want it to get out because the Utah Fantasia the Lakers. But he talked, I didn't put this into story and I kinda regretted he and Paul, George actually developed a kind of. I mean, they've known each other awhile anywhere the same draft class, but he talked to PG, you know, shortly after the injury and because PLO who famously broke his for team USA and throughout the year, I think he talked to Kevin wear a little bit kit from Louisville that's been written. But I didn't get into the PG stuff because that had already been covered by lots of people. Right. But it's also going back to how he would call his agent and be like the world's over should probably give this. Yeah, on the worst basketball player ever like when he has a bad night. There also seems to be like there's a balance there where negative negatively university can push you towards what you want to be, but then it could also go the other way can start pulling you from your goal because you don't think you're worthy to do this anymore. Shirley, it is at something that is well, that's something that it seems that when he's in his all star form and Utah, he's battling his head. It must have been much deeper during rehab process. Yeah. And he he would get upset about, you know, he had all these tests that he had to do every day. All these stretching exercises all these games they made up being the most famous one is when he puts all the marbles on the towel and picks them up with his feet and they would time that how long does it take you to pick them up with this feat and put them at a like a jar. And when he would do poorly that or when he would fail some balanced tests or something he or when it just like, you know, he's got this video. Now this video series that's come out about his his rehab. You know, you see him doing like very basic stretches like you and I could get up and do the pretty proficiently right now. We are not professional athletes nowhere, and he was at, he has trouble doing like holding this pose for more than ten seconds and you can see how frustrated it was stuff like that. That just got him down and he would call them. It's just taking me so long. I don't know what's gonna end that of course, the second surgery just sent them into the little bit of tailspin in. So. With all these antidotes you had though about, like I heard this story, this story and the Heywood basically says it. It just sounds that while this was such a necessary process, it just sounds like a bunch of people who are just bored to death. Yeah, I was glad he said that. And I said, that's, that's part of the story. Now, the danger in a story like that is that it's just a collection of anecdotes that doesn't add up to anything, but a collection of anecdotes. And I think that was a little that that there's a little bit of that, but I told him like a or star athletes. So any anecdote about you is definitely more interesting than literally the same anecdote about me? Yeah, pong stories about us would not be not interesting. In be like, I think. Funny, some of them are kind of good. So what's the harm? Like there's a harm. It's the internet. You can put an extra one hundred and fifty words of anecdotes into story. If they're funny enough, people will find Gordon Hayward being so good at ping pong today. Steal his paddle and swipe swap out for like a generic paddle to throw him off. I think that's funny. Can only be Julianne Amon, Juliet, mentally, beat him once yes, they were sensitive Celtics where the Julian element thing is not in my story. No little bit of sore spot Celtics were. I don't follow football, so I don't really know. He was suspended for something whose PD PD's. Yeah. So I think the Celta I actually heard about that from the Celtics and I wanted to as Gordon, I think the Celtics were hesitant to let it be known that Julius Julian Julian Julian Edelman was in their facility hanging around while on suspension for PD's. I think just the associate was like a stink too. I don't know. They just didn't want to ask them about it. And then of. Of course, Jen Schefter have it nailed down, put in put it out today. My story comes up. Well, okay. Well, as you said earlier, like, you know, he's gonna take his legs back in time and whatnot, and the results haven't returned yet to pay would being back. We want to be, is there a thought through all this rehab and this back to basics footwork could all that that, well, he's not back to where he was. All this fundamentals could actually make him better than he could have been. I have not heard that. No, I've not heard that. He looks like he looks pretty good. I think his games going to be fine, but I have not heard people say that they how much I mean. Going back to also we talked and everything will be fine the end with the Celtics, but are there any potential that you would see any potential chemistry issues here like where? How much of a leash to they give to the players would you feel would give to Hayward to sort of learn by doing because in the end? Yes. If he gets back to his form, he'll really help the Celtics, but in the process of learning by doing the doing it, the expense of some of their minutes, they're worried about that. They've been pretty open that they're worried about that. You have some guys that are not are not worried about it at all. Like Terry Rozier is really taking it in stride. He's a like, I, I can't tell you how impressed I am, but that guy, he's taking it as a personal challenge. Like I'm gonna force. Brad Stevens supplied me twenty five minutes game. That's how good I'm going to be going to have to find me this amount of minutes and the league. He's like the league not-so-good. I am like he. He won't say that, but you can tell I'm not worried about like the league, forgetting what I did in the playoffs. I'm going to be cool. Then there are other guys on the team that the Celtics are a little worried about, how are they going to take the touch is going down, how are they gonna take the minutes going down, and I guess you're right. If Gordon proves to be taking longer and he's now has back pain that he's fighting through all of a sudden, you know, there could be some like, hey, we did this last year. A different way worked pretty well. Yeah. And then there. I mean. You could also, but how how much weight is given to Brad Stevens himself? As far as like the systems he comes up with in a way that you know, it's pretty amazing that what he was able to with Thomas and what I Thomas was able to do after he left. Yeah, I, I think Brad is like, you know, there's this whole now like Brad backlash of all of the media's prematurely. Deified, Brad, Brad. She was a really good coach and you look at what's happening in Minnesota right now, right? Where a lot of that is just you have a couple of players who don't like each other and the organization has been unable to foster an environment where they can overcome that and function. A lot of that is on the coach, and Brad is really good at that stuff. And you talked to the players on the team. One of the reasons the Celtics are confident, maybe the main one that all of this chemistry minutes stuff will be okay is because Brad l. one of the things he's really good at is in this is like such dumb fundamental thing is being really honest straightforward with the players, communicating with them, telling them if you do not do XYZ, you won't play like Jane Larkin until may story. Once he didn't get a loose ball in some random game against the nets like somebody beat him to loose ball. If you watch the clip like he's not, he's not the one who wants to lose ball the boasts, right? He's given all Brad took him right out of the game immediately. And just calmly said to him. You can't do that. Like if you wanna play, you have to at least be on the floor. You have to get that loose ball. Then brought back in a couple minutes later, didn't scream at him, didn't yell at him. Just that's the criteria. And I think all of these guys will know. Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, whoever it is like. Your performance will justify how many minutes you play, and that's going to be the criterion. We don't meet it your minutes. We're gonna go down when you meet your minutes will go up and he's gonna fall through that every time and like it's hard to be on happy. And to that point thing, do you in as you mentioned Minnesota. Are there a lot of coaches that sort of in your opinion, so to go without going through each team or whatever, go through sorta head games in a way, wouldn't I if you took that exact loose ball situation and put it in other teams with a play, it vastly different that would potentially cause like powderkeg their their coaches that are better than others. I think about being straightforward about. Like it's it's a lot of players don't like screamers, Brad, Brad is one of the coaches who's able to run a pretty tight ship without screaming and humiliating people being passive aggressive. Yeah, and a lot. A lot of coaches kinda like the head game, single respond, how responsive, you know, Agnew him or do this. Exactly. And the consistency is the key. Like if you're going to set a standard that has to be the standard all the time and standards might be different for different players. Like different skills might be different benchmarks might be emphasized, but like once it's once it's benchmark its benchmark like everyone understands it, it's communicated clearly if you don't meet it like you can't argue with your superstar. Not. Yeah. So in that respect than if the Celtics, I mean, they could not come out of the gate. Flying is the key to all this coach Stevens sort of preaching patients in. Offense and manage more magic expectations in the short term are probably more important job than anything else. I don't know because he's a, he's like secretly a heart. I mean, that's I think what people miss about coach Stevens a little bit is that he's a heart in the famous story is. And people have written us including me like two days after Hayward gets hurt, they have a team meeting. Think he called the tea. I don't remember the exact coordinates, oh, but he called the team meeting with normally, there wouldn't be one, and he just said, there are no excuses, like we have talent, we have to figure out how to do it. We're not gonna lean on our youth as a crutch, who can win a lot of games with this team. If we do things the right way, and we play the right way. That's it. And I think he will prepare them for some rust. Like, you know, two game losing streak. He's not going to be like, we're supposed to be the number one team, these, what's wrong with this crazy. But I do think he's gonna hold them to a high standard really early and not let them use this as as a a. A an excuse or a crutch, if they don't play well, I think he's going to be pretty demanding in terms of what he wants to see on the floor right away. If you see around like near the all-star break, they're not like the, they're like the three seed or something like that. Is that something that you know if people the media, whoever start coming after them for, or the blog is fear, social media starts coming down on them. Is that something that you know that can be bandaged in a way that you know he manage it in the locker room? I think so. I don't think he would care. I don't think they care three seat is like east is going to be really good, feel it top of these is really good there, three seat at the all-star break, but they're close. I think that's going to be acceptable if they're the five seed, then that's a different story. So also besides the Russ. So you would say, all signs point go for Gordon, Hayward, accept this recent back thing, which I think he came out today in this is Friday. The twelfth. Yep. And said. They might watch minutes a little bit more carefully than they, they were going to. That's a little bit troubling sure. But they're so deep and in the team will be fine. But yeah, it's it's he's behind where he wants to be in where I thought he was going to be so ended the day. Where do you? What do you see the Celtics at the end of the year? I still think in may they're the best team in these, and I will still pick them to make the finals and I don't know I, I was going to say, one of my big predict with season was going to be Celtics, had the best record in the league period better than the words, but in the rockets that I think they could win sixty five games the preseason. Although I don't read a lot into it has shaken me a little bit, but I but I still think by may by June, they're the best of these. Well, we'll definitely be watching Zach Lowe. Thank you so much free time. My pleasure, sir. Thank you. Subscribe to double truck stories podcast on the ESPN app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks again and we'll be back soon with more double truck stories, podcasts.

Gordon Hayward Celtics Hayward Hayward bartlestein Boston Brad Stevens basketball Hayward Hanlin ESPN Hanlin Bradley Beal Zach Lowe Stephen ESPN NBA Scott Morrison Jason Smethers smothers Saint Bernard high school Jaylen Brown
Inside Gordon Hayward's Misery-Filled Fight

The Lowe Post

34:07 min | 2 years ago

Inside Gordon Hayward's Misery-Filled Fight

"Let me double truck stories the home to some of the best features investigations, character portraits from across the Spion. I Mike Philbrick your host of the double truck stories podcast. Remember subscriber double stories podcast on the ESPN app apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts Gordon, Hayward, gruesome ankle injury, Amir, five minutes into his tenure with the Celtics was the talk of the sports world, but then like all stories are short attention spans moved us onto the next thing. But since that day Gordon Hayward has been. His lucky is live this injury twenty four, seven as he went through a seemingly endless rehab full of fewer highs and lows all while watching from far as his new teammates came within one game of the finals. And as we approach the next NBA season, Haywood struggles are still not over. Stick around after the story from my conversation with ESPN senior writer, Zach Lowe, as we talk about how the road to recovery can be full of potholes. Now he present inside Gordon, Hayward misery filled fight to play again by Vaclav. On August twenty eight that Saint Bernard high school in Los Angeles about two dozen scouts players and trainers watched as Gordon Hayward and Bradley Beal lined up to play one on one. It was Hayward's first time playing one on one against an NBA starter since undergoing an unexpected. Second surgery in late may to remove a plate and screws from around the left ankle Hayward shattered five minutes into his Celtics career, the discovery that needed another surgery had devastated Hayward it through his rehabilitation timetable into disarray by August twenty eighth. He was supposed to have been months into five on five games against NBA competition. Now he was easing into one on one. I wasn't thinking, I'm going to kill this guy. Hayward told ESPN dot com. Tuesday night after another disappointing preseason game for the Celtics. I was thinking it would show me what I needed to work on. Beal told drew Hanlin the popular skills trainer who holds. Court at Saint Bernard and tinkered with Hayward's game over the summer that he was confident they started from the post and it could only dribble twice before shooting. Then they moved to the perimeter and allow themselves three dribbles Hayward swept five straight games. He surprised the hell out of me. Beal says, Bill called Mark bartlestein the agent who represents both. I have good news and bad news Beal said the two recalled I might suck. But Gordon is one hundred percent back. It was a watershed moment for Hayward. I glimpse of hope after a year of arduous rehab, intense anxiety and the gut punch of a second operation. I was definitely surprised. Hayward says there have been so many low moments that was a huge, huge confidence booster. Bullying Beal was a great sign hand linen, Hayward. New defenses would switch against Boston's best lineups. They spent much of the summer working on posting up smaller players, but relying on. One on one work as September approached was also a reminder of how far behind Hayward wise it is showing so far in the preseason. Hayward is just five of twenty from the floor and has committed eight thousand fifty, nine minutes physically. I feel pretty good Hayward says, but I don't feel comfortable on the floor yet. It's one thing to be physically able to do everything. It's another to be a basketball player, the timing and the rhythms when you've been playing along time, you just know. But not after you take a huge break and come back to a new system. The second surgery was such a setback. I was really looking forward to playing five on five, the whole summer. What I'm going through now is what I wanted to do in the summer, but it didn't work out that way. Hayward had just started to run full speed and play one on one in late may when doctors concluded it was best to remove the plate and screws Hayward had been feeling pain around his ankle for months. He agitated for the surgery Earl. Earlier, fearing an operation in may or June would sabotages summer hindsight is twenty twenty. He says, but I wish we had knocked this out in March doctors and Celtics officials cautioned that no one should undergo a second operation if they don't absolutely have to Hayward recalls. They needed to determine if something other than the plate. Some issue that would go away was causing the year tation. That process took time. I was miserable. Hayward says to go back into a walking boot after all that progress back on crutches. That was my lowest moment. I felt terrible for him says, Danny Ainge. Boston's GM Hayward's lows can get really low. That's how I'm wired. He says, I stress stress. People close to him, have long known to expect calls from a despondent Hayward after so-so games. Hayward has trouble sleeping on those nights. He says, friends hoped the year away would change that he would miss the game. Rediscover the joy of it, fixate less all mistakes. Perhaps the Celtics success without him would ease Hayward, self-imposed pressure upon his return. It's just basketball says Jason Smethers a trainer who is among Hayward's closest friends and lived with him for most of last year on this team, you were allowed to have a bad game. Hayward tried to internalize that. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it hurts to watch Boston thrive without him when you go down, like I did after changing teams, it's just not supposed to happen that way. He says it's just the nature of being a competitor. You wanna feel like you're missed and I was missed. But when you watch them rattle off sixteen in a row, those negative thoughts creep in it was tough sitting and watching right now. It's tough playing on the way home from Sunday's game against Charlotte, in which haywar shot one of seven and committed five thousand twenty one minutes. He called bartlestein to mope. Bartlestein told him to focus on his chase down block of Jeremy lamb proof. He could get up and then land hard on that left leg. That was their routine during Hayward's year. Rebuilding leg Hayward would call bartlestein and lament every setback. The days he felt more pain when it took him longer than usual to pluck marbles off the ground with his toes a game. He and smothers invented when he took a small step, backward own some test of balance, originality after consoling, Hayward bartlestein would phone Smethers and the two other permanent members of Hayward's rehab crew, Steve mount, the Celtics rehabilitation manager and Tyler eaten their strength and conditioning coach for their take on the day's work. I would get a completely different version from them. Bartlestein says his conversations with Hayward always into the same way. I would give him s about being completely out of his mind bartlestein says, but that perfectionism dissecting everything. One hundred times. That's what makes him who. He is Hayward's competitive nature. Got him through the drudgery. We hear all the time about how professional athletes are maniacally competitive. They all hate losing boardgames. Hayward is maniacal even by those standards. He turned every part of his rehabilitation into a competition every morning over Starbucks. He and smothers would play a best of three series of the video game clash royale with the winner earning the right to talk trash for the rest of the day. Hayward famously turned the marble picking exercise into a timed race and bet against anyone, willing to challenge him in a contest of half court shots attempted from a chair, Hayward used various grip strengthening exercises to distract himself during Celtics games. One favourite unfold several pages of a newspaper and pile them on top of each other place. One hand in the middle, and using only that hand attempt to crumple all of the paper up into a ball that fits into your palm sound easy. Dude. They would says it light. At your hand on fire in January Hayward, decided it was time to put Smethers eaten and mount through some competition. He was tired of listening to them argue about who was the best athlete. He's a misery, loves company kind of guy. Smother says Hayward created Gordon's grand gauntlet eight, a Catholic esque set of events that included a mile, Ron, a one hundred yard dash driving and putting contests attest of who could throw a baseball farther an endurance test on an exercise bike and trivia contest. Pay word wrote the questions himself. We were pretty f- in board really is what it was. Hayward says, laughing when mount and Smethers pedaled the same virtual distance over three minutes on the resistance bike, Hayward made them start over. There had to be a distinct finishing order in each event. No ties during Hayward's pool work at Boston's old practice facility Smethers and mouth. Talked trash about who would win a swimming race. Hayward finally demanded. They settle it. Mount one staffers set up a makeshift podium for a medal ceremony. Hayward found a way to have the Australian national anthem. Mount is Australian Blair as mount draped, a wait around his neck as a metal when Hayward needed brakes. He would take patriots practice what ball gift from Tom Brady and he had all over the Celtics silty inventing contests with Smethers who could sling the ball between those two lights hanging from the ceiling and hit a target on the wall. The ball eventually got stuck in fixture. Hayward, never retrieved it in late July, about two months after the plate removal surgery, Hayward was finally ready to run full speed again at a training facility called excess and San Diego. Staffers set up. A beep test. Run for him. Pay word was to run back and forth between two points changing directions. Each time, a peop- sounded the beep started infrequent intervals. So the runner can begin a casual jog. The interval shrinks as the test proceeds anytime a beep beats. The runner. The test ends smothers watch to make sure Hayward didn't over exert himself Scott Morrison as Celtics assistant visiting Hayward at the time decided he would join if there was ever a chance to beat him at anything athletic. This was it. Morrison says they went on and on faster and faster. Smethers was surprised. Hayward was still going Hayward. Was the prized Morrison was still going. There was absolutely no way I was losing to a forty year old. Hayward says it can't happen even if it was my first time running in a long time. Morrison is forty one for the record. Morrison finally gave out Hayward, ran one last spread stopped and gloated it was okay. I one that's enough. He says today, it's ping pong. Hayward has his own panel when he saw the pool table. And the Celtics new practice facility. He badgered staff about buying a ping pong table topper until they finally caved pay word supervised the purchasing of paddles so that everyone would have good ones. He was undefeated until mount secretly swiped Hayward's, personal paddle, replaced it with a generic one and beat him as much of the staff watched mount, then revealed what he had done. Hayward has since been more careful. Hayward wants to hang a whiteboard next to the table where he can scribble updated pong rankings. This is how Hayward past time during his rehab process that is over now, the games are happening, and there is more to sort out then Hayward anticipated in January and February when his rehab was on course, when a second surgery was unlikely. Worst case scenario, it's just rebuilding habits, remembering the right time to cut or how to guard a simple action. Brad Stevens. Boston's coach tell. ESPN dot com. Those are the things you don't think about when you're running or playing one on one. Now you have this big five on five game to play to my is he looks fine. Physically the more complex layer, figuring out how Hayward fits in a loaded starting lineup featuring two young stars Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum who blossomed in his absence in preseason action, Hayward, Brown, and Tatum have been almost indistinguishable in terms of role. They work as secondary options around Kyrie Irving, pick and rolls ready to attack a scramble, defensive, urban kicks the ball, Hanlin and Hayward worked much of the summer with that situation mind. They honed Hayward's pump fake so that it would be more convincing coaxing defenders into flying by him. They drilled slow ball, fix, shoulder, fakes, Chen fakes eyebrow fakes. The first bounce by that defender is the easy part Hayward Hanlin focused on the second and third triples the. The ones that puncture defense, Hayward, practiced, keeping his dribble alive, even when help defenders step up to protect the ram. One trick having Hayward lower his shoulder into that defender's chest plant his foot and time dribble so that the ball and that foot hit the floor at the same time, meaning he would still have a live bounce after the collision Hanlin designed many of those drills so that Hayward planted off his left foot. He had to trust it again. Hanlin says Hanlin showed Hayward film of some of the league's shifty est ball handlers, including CJ McCollum having three and really four. If you count Al Horford, elite secondary options, it's great to win championships. You need to collect so much talent that a few people end up in roles for which they are overqualified. But Hayward might be the best decision maker and passer among Boston's perimeter players and perhaps the best on the team neck and neck with Horford as he gets his legs under him. Boston will need to balance the off. Offense. So that Hayward gets some time at the controls that will happen organically as Stevens staggers minutes, giving Hayward a chance to run lineups heavy on bench players. He'll screen for Irving and unconventional, pick and rolls. If defensive switch, Hayward is ready to drag smaller guys into the post. He says, the Celtics have time to figure the offense out. Everyone understands the sacrifices involved. Everyone is going to have games where they score a lot more than they do another's. Stephen says, I'm not worried about anyone from that standpoint. Everyone will have their chance to shine on defense. Hayward will have to jostle with powerful words. If Boston is to play its most potent lineups, he defended Kevin love and the first half against Cleveland on Tuesday, Brown and Tatum will draw that duty and other matchups. Stephen says, he's a strong guy. Stevens says, he's tough enough Beal agrees after those one on one game, he told Hanlin I didn't realize how country strong. Gordon is handling recalls. Hayward is feeling it all out. He has no doubt he and the team will get there. He just imagines an alternative timeline in which the feeling out process was further along. I wish this could have all happened in the summer. He says, but I'm working through it now. Joining me now is ESPN senior writer, Zach, Lowe, Zach, welcome what's up, sir, where my special vineyard vines close for, you know how offensive. I find the entire vineyard vines brand. I literally grab something I this morning I went wait. Hold on. There's no way on that of seeings Acton. I can't lie. I'm not proud. I'm not proud. I judged people who were in your buns and then they then, but then I meet them like you were friends. It's okay, right? But when I see someone strolling down the street in like vineyard vines and and tuck it reds, I, I, I. I own all that something in me goes off. I'm sorry. It's from your Greenwich up. I know is I just those people have they have to overcome a barrier eventually with me. That's okay. That's okay. Overcome barriers of? I'm just not a pleasant person anyway. So listen, you said that? Not me. Yeah, I did. I thought it. I didn't say it. Fair, fair. So getting, let's go back to Gordon Hayward. This is a very interesting story in the sense that you have a basketball player, someone who's competing sport that. You could very easily argue requires you to be become the best athletes in the world and many respects, and he's probably playing this since he was like ten years old and then you take that away for a brief period of time, and then bang it's back to ground zero and people don't realize how hard it is to get back to that. Now. Would you talk with Gordon Hayward, they? Did you find that was the most jarring part of all this for him. I just thought it was the most interesting story that I could tell in October twenty eighteen. It's like, we're all we're gonna find out how he's gonna fit in the lineup, how good the Celtics are. Like all this questions will be answered to me. I still felt like I hadn't heard enough about like swat. How'd you like pass the time? And part of it was I know a lot of people around him now. Yes. So I could come to him with like, hey, I heard this funny story. I heard this funny story. I heard this funny story, but to him the most jarring thing was and I found this. I did not expect this it maybe I should have. It was stupid that I didn't was having the second surgery unexpectedly. So he had to have the plate and screws removed from his ankle because they were irritating him. And I just sort of, you know how the news comes and goes in filters in one year. Not the other guy. Vaguely knew that this happened. Yeah, but the seriousness of the timing and how it screwed up his rehab calendar just never hit me and to him that was. The lowest moment of his entire year was not the injury, and I was like when they had to do his surgery again. Right. And then just the whole visual in the psychological of curious, looking down himself looking very similar to how he did in October of twenty. Seventeen. Yeah. And, but then as you talked about as we have, you played one on one and doing that, but he still worries about you hear guys all the time of the football side say, oh, yeah, I've been working out every day in the gym. You know, during my holdout, but I'm not in football shape, and now he's teaching us a little bit Gordon Hayward through your story about what it's like to be in basketball shape yet. I think for him, it's more mental than physical adding physically, he's in pretty good shape. He feels like he's one hundred percent is angles hundred percent. Probably his endurance and stuff isn't where it is when he's at like all-star form. But for him, it's like his rhythm is just off. And maybe part of that is again to physically. He's not quite there. I don't know. But his rhythm is often you could see one of the, I went to two games. Recently, Boston one, he had five thousand like eight minutes. He found out in the first half and you could just see like he just would like try to get around to screen on defense and he'd be laid or he get hung up in ways and he would I was watching him and he would just he looked like a ten year old kid who missed a shot, like the body language, the sagging shoulders, the beating himself up. You could tell like, he just couldn't do something was off. And you mentioned that about how his agent Mark bartlestein and his team around him. Like that's part of the especially agent that that's one of their jobs more than anything is to constantly tell him like to your point, don't be the ten year old who missed the shot with the shoulders down. It's not as awful as you think the mental game. Yeah, he is. I mean, I I had known that he's an intensely competitive person even more so than most professional athletes. I didn't realize sorta how in his own head and down on himself. He gets it's very defining part of his personality that the people around him. And they would tell stories about how you know he'd go for fifteen in a game for Utah, and he'd call and be like, it would be like the world was ending. Yeah, you know and they'd be like Gordon, there's not a game tomorrow. Everything's fine men. But as part of also is recovery, we keep talking about the mental part. Did you hear from other people? Because I know I only because I remember when whenever somebody gets hurt, always you hear like Kobe Bryant reached out because you know when he tore his achilles, he reached out to this person that to tell them not about like, oh, you're gonna do this drill on the step master the stairmaster or just the mental part of it. So it's funny mentioned co because before his last season in Utah, he likes secretly went to Newport Beach and trained with Kobe, but that was he was perfectly healthy obviously then, but he didn't want that to get out. I knew about an I asked him about it. He didn't want to get out. I put it out anyway. But I think he didn't want it to get out because the Utah Fantasia the Lakers. But he talked, I didn't put this into story and I kinda regretted he and Paul, George actually developed a kind of. I mean, they've known each other awhile anywhere the same draft class, but he talked to PG, you know, shortly after the injury and because PLO who famously broke his for team USA and throughout the year, I think he talked to Kevin wear a little bit kit from Louisville that's been written. But I didn't get into the PG stuff because that had already been covered by lots of people. Right. But it's also going back to how he would call his agent and be like the world's over should probably give this. Yeah, on the worst basketball player ever like when he has a bad night. There also seems to be like there's a balance there where negative negatively university can push you towards what you want to be, but then it could also go the other way can start pulling you from your goal because you don't think you're worthy to do this anymore. Shirley, it is at something that is well, that's something that it seems that when he's in his all star form and Utah, he's battling his head. It must have been much deeper during rehab process. Yeah. And he he would get upset about, you know, he had all these tests that he had to do every day. All these stretching exercises all these games they made up being the most famous one is when he puts all the marbles on the towel and picks them up with his feet and they would time that how long does it take you to pick them up with this feat and put them at a like a jar. And when he would do poorly that or when he would fail some balanced tests or something he or when it just like, you know, he's got this video. Now this video series that's come out about his his rehab. You know, you see him doing like very basic stretches like you and I could get up and do the pretty proficiently right now. We are not professional athletes nowhere, and he was at, he has trouble doing like holding this pose for more than ten seconds and you can see how frustrated it was stuff like that. That just got him down and he would call them. It's just taking me so long. I don't know what's gonna end that of course, the second surgery just sent them into the little bit of tailspin in. So. With all these antidotes you had though about, like I heard this story, this story and the Heywood basically says it. It just sounds that while this was such a necessary process, it just sounds like a bunch of people who are just bored to death. Yeah, I was glad he said that. And I said, that's, that's part of the story. Now, the danger in a story like that is that it's just a collection of anecdotes that doesn't add up to anything, but a collection of anecdotes. And I think that was a little that that there's a little bit of that, but I told him like a or star athletes. So any anecdote about you is definitely more interesting than literally the same anecdote about me? Yeah, pong stories about us would not be not interesting. In be like, I think. Funny, some of them are kind of good. So what's the harm? Like there's a harm. It's the internet. You can put an extra one hundred and fifty words of anecdotes into story. If they're funny enough, people will find Gordon Hayward being so good at ping pong today. Steal his paddle and swipe swap out for like a generic paddle to throw him off. I think that's funny. Can only be Julianne Amon, Juliet, mentally, beat him once yes, they were sensitive Celtics where the Julian element thing is not in my story. No little bit of sore spot Celtics were. I don't follow football, so I don't really know. He was suspended for something whose PD PD's. Yeah. So I think the Celta I actually heard about that from the Celtics and I wanted to as Gordon, I think the Celtics were hesitant to let it be known that Julius Julian Julian Julian Edelman was in their facility hanging around while on suspension for PD's. I think just the associate was like a stink too. I don't know. They just didn't want to ask them about it. And then of. Of course, Jen Schefter have it nailed down, put in put it out today. My story comes up. Well, okay. Well, as you said earlier, like, you know, he's gonna take his legs back in time and whatnot, and the results haven't returned yet to pay would being back. We want to be, is there a thought through all this rehab and this back to basics footwork could all that that, well, he's not back to where he was. All this fundamentals could actually make him better than he could have been. I have not heard that. No, I've not heard that. He looks like he looks pretty good. I think his games going to be fine, but I have not heard people say that they how much I mean. Going back to also we talked and everything will be fine the end with the Celtics, but are there any potential that you would see any potential chemistry issues here like where? How much of a leash to they give to the players would you feel would give to Hayward to sort of learn by doing because in the end? Yes. If he gets back to his form, he'll really help the Celtics, but in the process of learning by doing the doing it, the expense of some of their minutes, they're worried about that. They've been pretty open that they're worried about that. You have some guys that are not are not worried about it at all. Like Terry Rozier is really taking it in stride. He's a like, I, I can't tell you how impressed I am, but that guy, he's taking it as a personal challenge. Like I'm gonna force. Brad Stevens supplied me twenty five minutes game. That's how good I'm going to be going to have to find me this amount of minutes and the league. He's like the league not-so-good. I am like he. He won't say that, but you can tell I'm not worried about like the league, forgetting what I did in the playoffs. I'm going to be cool. Then there are other guys on the team that the Celtics are a little worried about, how are they going to take the touch is going down, how are they gonna take the minutes going down, and I guess you're right. If Gordon proves to be taking longer and he's now has back pain that he's fighting through all of a sudden, you know, there could be some like, hey, we did this last year. A different way worked pretty well. Yeah. And then there. I mean. You could also, but how how much weight is given to Brad Stevens himself? As far as like the systems he comes up with in a way that you know, it's pretty amazing that what he was able to with Thomas and what I Thomas was able to do after he left. Yeah, I, I think Brad is like, you know, there's this whole now like Brad backlash of all of the media's prematurely. Deified, Brad, Brad. She was a really good coach and you look at what's happening in Minnesota right now, right? Where a lot of that is just you have a couple of players who don't like each other and the organization has been unable to foster an environment where they can overcome that and function. A lot of that is on the coach, and Brad is really good at that stuff. And you talked to the players on the team. One of the reasons the Celtics are confident, maybe the main one that all of this chemistry minutes stuff will be okay is because Brad l. one of the things he's really good at is in this is like such dumb fundamental thing is being really honest straightforward with the players, communicating with them, telling them if you do not do XYZ, you won't play like Jane Larkin until may story. Once he didn't get a loose ball in some random game against the nets like somebody beat him to loose ball. If you watch the clip like he's not, he's not the one who wants to lose ball the boasts, right? He's given all Brad took him right out of the game immediately. And just calmly said to him. You can't do that. Like if you wanna play, you have to at least be on the floor. You have to get that loose ball. Then brought back in a couple minutes later, didn't scream at him, didn't yell at him. Just that's the criteria. And I think all of these guys will know. Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, whoever it is like. Your performance will justify how many minutes you play, and that's going to be the criterion. We don't meet it your minutes. We're gonna go down when you meet your minutes will go up and he's gonna fall through that every time and like it's hard to be on happy. And to that point thing, do you in as you mentioned Minnesota. Are there a lot of coaches that sort of in your opinion, so to go without going through each team or whatever, go through sorta head games in a way, wouldn't I if you took that exact loose ball situation and put it in other teams with a play, it vastly different that would potentially cause like powderkeg their their coaches that are better than others. I think about being straightforward about. Like it's it's a lot of players don't like screamers, Brad, Brad is one of the coaches who's able to run a pretty tight ship without screaming and humiliating people being passive aggressive. Yeah, and a lot. A lot of coaches kinda like the head game, single respond, how responsive, you know, Agnew him or do this. Exactly. And the consistency is the key. Like if you're going to set a standard that has to be the standard all the time and standards might be different for different players. Like different skills might be different benchmarks might be emphasized, but like once it's once it's benchmark its benchmark like everyone understands it, it's communicated clearly if you don't meet it like you can't argue with your superstar. Not. Yeah. So in that respect than if the Celtics, I mean, they could not come out of the gate. Flying is the key to all this coach Stevens sort of preaching patients in. Offense and manage more magic expectations in the short term are probably more important job than anything else. I don't know because he's a, he's like secretly a heart. I mean, that's I think what people miss about coach Stevens a little bit is that he's a heart in the famous story is. And people have written us including me like two days after Hayward gets hurt, they have a team meeting. Think he called the tea. I don't remember the exact coordinates, oh, but he called the team meeting with normally, there wouldn't be one, and he just said, there are no excuses, like we have talent, we have to figure out how to do it. We're not gonna lean on our youth as a crutch, who can win a lot of games with this team. If we do things the right way, and we play the right way. That's it. And I think he will prepare them for some rust. Like, you know, two game losing streak. He's not going to be like, we're supposed to be the number one team, these, what's wrong with this crazy. But I do think he's gonna hold them to a high standard really early and not let them use this as as a a. A an excuse or a crutch, if they don't play well, I think he's going to be pretty demanding in terms of what he wants to see on the floor right away. If you see around like near the all-star break, they're not like the, they're like the three seed or something like that. Is that something that you know if people the media, whoever start coming after them for, or the blog is fear, social media starts coming down on them. Is that something that you know that can be bandaged in a way that you know he manage it in the locker room? I think so. I don't think he would care. I don't think they care three seat is like east is going to be really good, feel it top of these is really good there, three seat at the all-star break, but they're close. I think that's going to be acceptable if they're the five seed, then that's a different story. So also besides the Russ. So you would say, all signs point go for Gordon, Hayward, accept this recent back thing, which I think he came out today in this is Friday. The twelfth. Yep. And said. They might watch minutes a little bit more carefully than they, they were going to. That's a little bit troubling sure. But they're so deep and in the team will be fine. But yeah, it's it's he's behind where he wants to be in where I thought he was going to be so ended the day. Where do you? What do you see the Celtics at the end of the year? I still think in may they're the best team in these, and I will still pick them to make the finals and I don't know I, I was going to say, one of my big predict with season was going to be Celtics, had the best record in the league period better than the words, but in the rockets that I think they could win sixty five games the preseason. Although I don't read a lot into it has shaken me a little bit, but I but I still think by may by June, they're the best of these. Well, we'll definitely be watching Zach Lowe. Thank you so much free time. My pleasure, sir. Thank you. Subscribe to double truck stories podcast on the ESPN app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks again and we'll be back soon with more double truck stories, podcasts.

Gordon Hayward Celtics Hayward Hayward bartlestein Boston Brad Stevens basketball Hayward Hanlin ESPN Hanlin Bradley Beal Zach Lowe Stephen ESPN NBA Scott Morrison Jason Smethers smothers Saint Bernard high school Jaylen Brown
Gordon Hayward to Sign 4 yr $120 Million Deal with Charlotte Hornets

The Garden Report | Boston Celtics Post Game Show from TD Garden

1:11:26 hr | Last week

Gordon Hayward to Sign 4 yr $120 Million Deal with Charlotte Hornets

"If and we're just waiting to see once we see people enter the stream we know we're live for sure. And when that happens boom here come the numbers here. We are 2:30 on a Saturday. None of us wanted to work today. Okay. Nobody we didn't want to do this yet. Here we are and not just not just the normal crew. We brought Cedric Maxwell in here who's going to try to Tamp down some of the rage that that Celtics nation is feeling right now, are angry. Okay, and we're about to take torches and March to the streets Gordon Hayward gone gone and it's not a trade. He didn't we didn't get everyone off yesterday was mad cuz it was only going to be Myles Turner. You know what today Gordon Hayward has left for nothing. You have nothing to show for it or Hayward is about to sign a four-year hug twenty million dollar deal with Charlotte. Nobody saw that coming same way. No one saw the Sixers coming out last year swooping in and signing Al Horford to the money that they did Soulja Let's set the stage. It happened the Celtics get nothing but a mid-level exception hold this is the third high-profile free agent that's walked out the door on the Celtics in the last five years and now here we are. So I'm going to start with Cedric's going to try to calm it down. So we're going to start with Max here. Okay, cuz the rest of us are Spitting Fire. Okay. All right guys, let's just calm down and pick it down too much. This is a new MBA which is what's going on. Now, you're looking players going all over the place and those things happen. How did it work out when Al Horford Jersey how they work out from Philly. Did they work out that way either Warehouse Kyrie low, you got your Bluetooth have your players your team actually got better. I don't think you think about it. And I know some of you guys are angling Danny you're angry Danny for what the player decided to leave. You can't you can't twist his arm the same state if he wants to leave he wants to leave and thank God Michael. Yep. We came in and he did what he did and everybody was well, wild I remember Nick jostled was saying to me. He said oh my God, poor poor Gordon Hayward and some of my friends are born. Hey with all my God feel so bad for you. Don't think that Gordon Hayward has some in the back pocket when he's decided said I'm walking away for thirty thirty four million dollars. There was always something that has somebody had took him about and a deal was ready to be made and God bless the player. He was like that. So I'm going to let my grade here checking your damn head. What do you think? I should say some say something. He told my Turn Around the Horn you can jump in I will say this Max. I don't think anybody is going to blame Gordon Hayward here. Well, Nick will so I'm going to let Nick Berg blame Gordon after but what I believe is it's not Gordon that people are mad at here. It is Danny Gordon. Nobody's looked this is not a great deal for Charlotte off. I mean, it makes no sense. What they just did here. They they let Kemba Walker walk to sign Terry Rozier and Gordon Hayward to these ridiculous contracts. This seems like terrible over there. Maybe this is a great deal for sure. I know it was going to say I can't agree with that. Let me explain why it's a really good player and when you guys on look at and I'll say it on are charging a great white player to come to a town that is desperately looking for a guy who could star in trailer and he happens to be white and the fan base has lived for that job in Gordon Hayward goes there and if Gordon Hayward we can talk about Grinch many how many how many did the average last year 17 17 points? What would the average more next year being in charger getting more Scouts he has opportunity to go up. But so let's not say Michael Jordan made a bad deal. I like this deal a lot better than a Terry Rozier deal. This deal is a pretty good deal for them. Especially when you talk about buying tickets for a fan base, which is struggled to have an identity. This is a guy you can put seats down people's asses in the states. So with with due respect it could end up being okay for Charlotte it could and that's fine and it certainly could be good for Gordon who gets to if you love The Boston experience and he wants to go there and I know Charlotte was mentioned among the suitors the potentially when he came to Boston in the first place. So it maybe he's had it in his mind. It might be good for both those palm trees, but it's really bad for Boston for a lot of different reasons, which are you've lost a you've lost a key player. You do not have been stepped behind him right now you have virtually no ability. Right now to go out and get people and even with this mid-level exception Bobby. We lost there's a lot of people off the board already. So their immediate future is they're both short-term and long-term future is greatly impacted here. So where people are going to be circling on this one is sure if that deal was there and Gordon knew it was going to be tough to pass up if you wanted to go to Indiana and and the reason it didn't happen is because Danny was playing Hardball waded out waited it out to the point that he drove him into Charlotte's arms and they're like sure let's take a stab and that's what happened, That's not great at all. So, I don't know how this all played out. It might have been inevitable Max this deal Gordon plan might have been opted out. See what's out there. If something like this is there I'm taking it. And then in that case, you're right. There's nothing Danny can do but at the end of the day, you've still lost in the last two years two months massive free agents without anything coming back to hold their set. You've lost their salary. You've lost the asset. You've lost the player and that's what kills you is. You can now you can't just be that money else now. No, I think you're right from their standpoint. But here's something else that you have to look at. It also gives and it and we'll see if it happens but also gives pay them any gives Brown more opportunities to flourish. So you take the ball out of out of Gordon's hands and you put it in their hands even more and you might get something that you will be even better when you think about the opportunities that they have because Gore and they were trying to fit Gordon in where they could but there was a brown and take those team and we look at it whose team is at right now dead. When you think about the way this team is going to be structured whose team is it? It's brown and it's Tatum. It's not Gordon Hayward and Gordon Hayward leaves. It might take a bath subtraction. It could be and I'm not saying that but it could be about subtraction that you get better. I think that could have been the case max. If you got that Indiana package back because you would have not getting players that enhanced Hayward Tatum a brown now, you have three great players on this team and nothing else grooving. You have no Wing depth you have no centered but this team is paper thin and if Kemba is in love her going forward as he could be you're talking about two players and nothing else around them. So it's great. I loved I loved the team being in Tatum and Browns hands that's crucial going forward, but what's going to support them is that this rookie that just came in that's a lot to put on a rookie and Panthers out the door. Like what's on Thursday? Team to support those gaskets are gone. There's no money. No assets. The draft picks are gone. So you can't you neither have the draft picks to be able to roll them up into a better player. Nor. Do you have that potential lottery pick that you might hit on later. The cupboard is bare at this point. Now it's now it's these guys and then what nothing behind that's the thing about it was it was paper thin to begin with and now it's gone. There are some things that you guys are screening. I think which to me hold true when you took things about your players and who you have and yeah, you have a a much thinner team and you you have no no, there's no ground right now for you to Falcor have any of these guys get hurt you'd never back down. No, he's got stronger. And will continue to the east got going to be stronger. But you know, I just don't think you know when you guys talk about. I know you're talking about the the Celtics and that's where you know our bases, but I can tell you now, but if you look at this team and you're looking strong Augustine, this is a this is a great pick up for that City. I don't you know, you suck. I lived in Charlotte. I know where Charlotte is wanted and I've always said that about great white clears that move around people might say oh Max, that's racist. No, that's just real. I'm just keeping the real life. This is a great situation for a fan base who is going to love Gordon Hayward coming there. Yeah, and again and what is that? What is that say Max that they let Kemba Walker go and change their paying all this money to a Gordon Hayward. You got a point there. He's right. I would say he's totally right. I think it makes sense completely. That's why it would have made sense in it. No I hear you, but I think again it's birth. Is Max mentioned this Market? We're we're here in a Celtics Market. We're looking at it through a Celtics perspective again, if it makes sense for Charlotte for for reasons beyond what what goes on on the court or maybe a combination of everything for what Hayward brings to the city and the team or whatever it is at the franchise feels. It needs that that could be the case again though from the Celtics perspective. We should have run into just I don't know what you do now really head-shaking head-scratching, you know place where I'm not I'm not going to say I don't know what Danny would have done. All I do know is this happened on his watch? And so did the sorted last year and that's not whatever that is. That's not great. People keep leaving you, you know God that's not a great sign for whatever reason money is money money always talks. So we if we're going to praise Danny when he gets these guys to walk through the door. We gotta look around and see what's causing them to leave. What is wrong. Say about Brad stevens or or the culture or the city and again, we can share the blame but we can play the blame game, you know, ultimately it might be as easy as you know God so you can you get them when you get them and then the next team over pays because they're desperate for some reason and that's what Charlotte did and made an overpayment. But you're you're right. Why would we look at our corporate as okay? Why did they all corporate lease? You know, why do you need money for money? Let's just make it clear now Gordon are Palm Gordon Gordon and the money he just made Max what he didn't learn the money. He just made money from the Boston for three years. How many games did he play come back? And you gotta have some sort of loyalty in life. I lost about these people I boil these out the window. I got traded away from a team that I was with for eight years. Yeah, I cried the big three now called the big four over my lifetime. So don't tell me anything about them. Damn loyalty when I feel that today's NBA off the team wants to trade you they trade you and they move on now that players have an opportunity to go elsewhere. You know, I like the players. I'm not I'm not install for anything out like off the blue room with fast blasting Danny Ainge. Listen, this was not a Shining Moment. Let's face it but he's had a couple fucking signing off over the years. Let's face it right won't deal with them because we're off the air we gotta go guys know Max I'm with you on that. I don't I don't begrudge a player for leaving for $1 more to go play somewhere else. I have no problem with that the the danger here and this is where I'm going to look at Danny again the danger in my mind wage. When you got to this point you open the door for something like this to happen. There was no tampering going on. Gordon. Didn't know the election. It was looking like both the next page in a weren't real and that ended up being the case. Neither one showed actual interest the longer you drag this out and don't take a deal that such take whatever is on the table. If Gordon wanted to go to Indiana. Danny should have done it two weeks ago. Okay and call it a day. You knew what Indiana was willing to pay you you could have done that guy get something to someone and so you when you wait this long you open the possibility that the forget what the market is for someone the market is what one team is willing to pay. That's the market it doesn't matter and if one team is willing to give Gordon that money you're wrong a huge risk, and that's what happened and he walked and that's a disaster. So again, and that looking at Danny here could have done something prior to this. I don't know. Well if Gordon Hayward wanted to go to Indiana, why didn't he? What did he go? Daddy had to trade him know he could have been he could have been he could opted out of this contract can still with the end of right? Yeah, I didn't have the money. They needed Boston to get out of the contract when you decide when you deal in life, if you really want. Yeah, it'd be really wanted to leave that bad in go off but Charlotte's what did you say? Nobody? Nobody saw how going to Philadelphia did they were together for that one? I mean that was trying to turn it on and off coming. Did anybody anybody for a while thinking Kerry Irvin was no leak. Yeah thought there eventually but I did very early in the process really great situation. Like I wanted to be in Brooklyn. I'm glad you bring up Kyrie Max but not that one wasn't the money. That one was the Celtics would have paid him to say they would have given him the max, you know more than anybody and he chose to leave. So I think when you look back on all of this this month, when we remember this area and Celtics history it all goes back to that Hayward injury on the first night there everybody's everybody's rolled the whole situation got screwed up from that point on a new cast of song took over and Tatum & Brown and Horford Hayward Irving say this isn't our team anymore. This didn't go the way we wanted to and they left so that that is what it is. But on a you gotta get something for them all three left from you guys in a little in in so many ways are beginning the amount of power that players. Have you guys say, it's not the money will sometime. Is sometimes it isn't let's look right. Now. Let's go down to Texas and look right now and what James Harden they're offering James Harden a hundred billion dollars. He is turning down the deal wage. He they're offering a hundred million dollars for two years and he said now I don't want that extension. Why is he doing that be running the show players one game where they're happy and obviously at the end of the day Gordon Hayward wasn't happy with the situation right had he had two players. Not only if he comes here to be a star. Okay? Yeah, it'd be a start but now you have two Dynamic players who going in front of you in another guy Gordon Hayward became really your four options. You know, like here's what bothers me is that basically you have a Campbell who is a ball-dominant Hayward was the was the good Gap to be the distributor for brown and Tatum dead. And they need that because Kemba it is not a passing point guard shooting point guard. That's where it hurts plus the to a defense. I mean, I gotta say first time maybe cuz it's the first time I really seen him play but first time ever in in the bubble. I thought they needed a word badly. I don't think anybody would disagree with that and those are reasons that work out where you make that work out for you. Thank you for your finals in bad Max. They did that essentially without Gordon Hayward. They didn't do that. Whip worth of the games as this is my third of the game for number six months and and gave her arm a couple of shots. There were people on stuff and TV just laying there was there was my child one of my sons saying damn cord. Hey when you suck Way up if you'd like to give me my damn remote 2nd, obviously, that's a good point Max. It's just going to take time though though and how much time do you have with them and brown to keep them? Happy just a general T. Yeah. That's the question cuz this is going to take some time. Now. You gotta rebuild you use you get to develop some guys. I just don't think Randy Moss rebuild you you you talk about you. Got you got you got you got Tatum and brown. You don't have to rebuild your youth what you have to do is you have to get some other pieces you guys are right about that but you gotta convince them, you know, you have the two most dynamic forwards right now young poets in the game too, though. You need a 10. You need more young guys. Nothing, right? Yeah. Yeah, but the big thing about leg weren't is red right now is he's scared that they're afraid now that he them is now going to need that's being in space right now. I hear you don't know what players have we're off this week. We you just don't know it's not based on its not based on money anymore based on how many feel comfortable they are in situations whether now is I'm gonna wait a minute and their wives their significant others. That is the test them forever and had their and their mother's name and Nick how about this month and their substances about that regarding right? Robin didn't like it here. I've been hearing that for twenty frigging years. Oh, come on New Year's song. Okay, so would you look in the camera right now? Hey, how did Anna Horford like it down in Philly Oh leaving out of this the Philly fans just stopped attacking me off. I'm going to go hard on that too because now Celtics fans are going to get a taste of what Hayward was and he has he's killing it down and Charlotte is Max mentioned. They're going to realize wow, we had something good in this guy. Now, he's gone. All they did was in Atlanta. I think we're overestimating what what a few a few frigging talking heads and a few people on Twitter and the impact that can happen on a particular player. Okay like Gordon Hayward. I actually thought was treated with kid gloves over this time. Okay, people make excuses for him way more than they killed them a few like the volt minority might have killed him the same way. They killed overrated a lure average Al but the Celtics fans on the whole were rushing to the frontlines to defend Gordon Hayward. I want to hear none of that wage. What type of ego do we have that we think what a few people might say behind the scenes and on Twitter going to influence this guy? We're not talking about what does it influence Support Office Celtics fans had nothing to do with this decision. Okay, and any suggestion to that effect is is an average of that. So what was it was it was something that drove him. I believe if you want to get into if you want to get into behind-the-scenes look a ton of this is speculation. I can see why a person like Gordon Hayward might not love Boston Volvo. Okay, you know we know about his there's an idea of his politics. There's an idea, It's not a great not a great spot to be for him to walk. He was clearly third or fourth fiddle here. And if he wants to go somewhere else, that's fine. That is the S&P and other is funny. It's really the key to it. I think Mom. Is actually one and everything else is way down the last year he became the four options for adoption. What is that on your shirt that make America great job that in private education reform you losing now what it was when Gordon Hayward came here. He looked at him. So as the number two option we first got here. I don't yet. I agree last couple of years last year. He became your fourth option. That's what really happened, but he did not like his position there. So now he goes to Charlotte and he he can he can realistically be their first option. He can realistically be there. Shin intro you think about it who they smell ball is a floorball is a pass, right? So he's going to be setting up Gordon Hayward. Who else do they have there that you think I am? Eroshare engineering Scary Terry Rozier really didn't play his bad LED Graham Dante. Graham was a much better player and he's a facilitator of he's a pastor. So horny. Hey, what goes into a situation where he probably is going to be your featured back until it turns oil brakes. But he would be your feature back going there may not be something Nick if he's healthy all next year then but I'm going to tell you something seeing him break his hand and his ankle like tinfoil is telling me that ain't going to happen will get injured and it kills that we don't get me wrong. I don't want them to but he will and it tells you cuz how does history go different if that night in Cleveland never have a sister named different Isaiah Thomas never heard his me. Anyway, yeah, I don't think you're going to get Kyrie Irving under me and all these people right now. And and yeah, Danny's my friend and teammate. There's some things that I did like Danny's done before his you know, why I know like when he got rid of perk I hated it. I hated that let's look at let's look at the network also asked us doing he got paid him. He got nobody wanted Brown when he picked round. Remember Marcus weren't wasn't the best pick that everybody thought about then when she picked up they Boot and they booed we got Kyrie Irving to come here and he got Gordon Hayward to come here and he got real hard for the come here. So let's look at his body of work you what he's actually done instead of say, oh this guy well L word for Left four hundred million dollars and change the element out of the four hundred million dollars and then gave it to me like I watch Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. None of this is wrong. But again it all comes down to what where are the Celtics now two years ago. Okay. You've got Kyrie Irving Gordon Hayward Al Horford and these two young guys and still pics and assets for whatever reasons beyond your control or within your control. They have out now just Hayward and okay, let's add Kemba there too. But they they have lost John Mayer training. They've lost Al they've lost Hayward those draft picks did not turn into the home office the Sakura all of these pics. They did not turn into stars or anything right now. We'll see what this kid. They got this year is but that's it. So that this was it two years ago. It was we've got this roster and endless possibility and now you've got two young Stars Kemba Walker and his bulky knee and you're out of draft picks and you have no cap space. Or shape right now. The guy you're not talking about either is Marcus Smart on this team know not too sheltered fans Marcus Smart, one of the the best defenders that we've seen in a while back seems that the cover let me just tell you guys the cupboards not bear. I play during the 9th 1979. It's not it's more pale was bear. I believe a 1978 nineteen seventy-seven. There was nothing in the cupboard. Now there was a guy coming some asshole named Larry Bird he was and he was he was pretty damn good but you know, let's not just just like, oh my God, we we have nothing. It's not fair, you know, it's not sitting there but I mean John, let me take a look here saying though is where you were and where you are right now that was competing that you looked at as a team that could win the championship right now Seventeen right now if they're dead. Be good and they maximize we think that they could possibly get in the Eastern Conference Finals and that's a step back and that will be a struggle. So that's that's one, you know what you're saying people that disappointed but you also have to look at what you have right. Now. You have two Dynamic players. You have Marcus you have Kimba now, let's find out what brands going to do this year. Let's find out if Danny has it cuz right now you you guys are right and I can see where you're pissed off because of where you were and where you are now, I think that's what I think all of your sayings. Yeah, and we go back to the contract. You could get a Hayward that you just couldn't there was a there was a limit here. I was willing to pay him quite a bit, but it wasn't a hundred twenty million you're going to do that. And are you kidding me? I want to quit and not watch the team anymore, you know, and and and here's a dose of optimism Al Horford leaves and who steps in Daniel. Tyson has a pretty good year. Could Romeo Langford step in for Gordon Hayward month? And have a great. Yeah, I think so. I've never loved your face John. I am not I am love it. I would love it. I would love it if he could sneak Romeo Langford has the cast on his leg. Yep. So, where is he going with that? That's that's a whole nother thing Romeo Langford hurt and the guys some of the guys. I love I love Brad Wanamaker with Brad Wanamaker this contract but are you going to bring him back? He was like, well, maybe I don't think he's dead. Yeah, I think we should we start trying to make are still selves feel better about Gordon Hayward leaving and we're mentioning want to make I'm going to jump out this window right here guys. Most quiet. I've been in ten years. I don't think it is as much Gordon Hayward as it is the reality that Danny got screwed and the cupboard is kind of birth. And we have in today's NBA as Max put it there are no assurances that Jayson Tatum is going to stay in Boston. And I think that's what fans only freaking out about looking at the chat here as everybody saying fuck F Danny F this F that again. I just want to reiterate Isaiah Thomas screamed and kicked his way out the door in Boston because he didn't want to leave Paul Peirce spent the last three years of his career on a marketing campaign for the Celtics while he played for other teams. Al Horford didn't want to leave he was given an offer. He couldn't refuse so these players that were talking about the two players that were disgruntled Kyrie and gone so long so long. Goodbye. It's it's bad management though. Like there's no there's no way Jose. That's you manage it who give you can't stand this whole loyalty and he didn't want to be here. So it doesn't matter you got you manage your assets and you don't let him walk for nothing just in case job he was doing a negotiation and they called his bluff. He held out too long and wanted the Hornets came in and Gordon took the deal, but that's a negotiation an asset management page 130 million dollars. Can I throw this at Max? Because I want to take this back to 2019 when you had all those players Roche Morris Hayward Brown. It was just such a pack roster and you had a chance that year to maybe trade Rocha maybe trade Hayward just condensed this a little bit cuz we all know there were too many players on that team that needed the ball in their hands. I think that's the way that you look back on and say you should have traded one of those guys. I think that the possibilities were there then because they just said you and I said that when When Brad was coaching I said it was going to be brass this year because so just too many players and not enough minutes out there any and ran some nice guy who was trying to play this guy in the NBA. Now you gotta reduce your roster to play a maybe around eight guys. And that's the other guys get it. Look what happened. Now you think about a team like Miami Miami was a team that only played about eight guys and that's it strong. You look at Boston Boston tried to play more so many guys, they try to play 10 or 11 yards during that particular that particular year and I think that was a mistake. You just can't play everything you want to you see that but you can't play everybody. So I I understand what you guys are saying and I understand how how the fans right now our page. From where and and what I understand you guys saying again is this where the cupboard was during that time with all the players and the opportunity to win a championship. You guys looked at it that way and seeing all that Talent you had you were like, oh my god when you had Kyrie Irving when you had that when you had that seniors like we're going to win the championship and you are horrible. You suck. Nobody last year. This team was a couple of baskets away from playing in the channel and the year before I realized too fast is so I think you should answer out there on the limb. I understand your anger. I understand your aggressive understand people leave them are right now going with Gordon Hayward, but I'm not mad at Gordon Hayward wage again. Gordon Hayward goes to a a team that he's going to be the number one Prospect. He's going to be looked at as the number one guy in a city like Charlotte and he's healthy. All is going to eat him. So I'm gonna I'm gonna throw this to join to I'm going to throw this to John cuz John and his hands in his face on Langford. What are we doing? Now? I know I'm not the biggest fan fan. I am far from the biggest line for fan. But what are you going to do? Now? You have a bunch of young players here. They're going to get more playing time and Brad has been known to make those players better off as anyone who's watched us the last few days. I kept saying this take a step backwards to take two steps for rewards. I keep saying the same thing and that's why I was fine the accents on the dollar for Hayward eventually get younger and to create a situation where you have other people are younger people playing whether it's rookies, I'd love to see if Romeo with a full healthy season could do something. I don't know. We'll see. I mean we were talking about throwing him in as trade filler. So I don't know what the organization was a different time John. We're open from 2 that I just don't know if the guys if they have thought Guys here that you're going to be able to do that with and again, there is the tatem brown concern of you don't want to throw these guys out there with a bunch of inexperienced whatever and then perhaps it just go backwards and sour them on the whole bus and experience. You want to make these guys feel like this is the place to be moving forward. Again Tatum hasn't signed this deal yet. I'm not saying it's going to impact this decision too. But Bobby I've I've kept talking about this 2023 window when Brown steel is up and the clock starts ticking on Tatum for 4 second extension. You've gotta have an organization that these guys want to stay home or else. It's I'm going to grab my buddies and I'm heading to LA and I'll see you guys later. Here's the thing that I think that that you're doing if you're the Celtics right now, and and we all have young kids and John yours on his older as malware, but eventually what we do with our kids is we give them the keys. We give them the keys to the car. We give them the keys to the front door. They can come back home. I mean now and that's what they're doing will take them and brown they've already got yes, they've already done that. We're Brown has proven right now that you know take them. This is your team your life if you if he decides he was some place else in life. I would be surprised I wouldn't be like shocked but I'd be surprised because essentially you looking him the way this team is made up he's able to do essentially what he wants to do and it's become over his years. He's become one of the rising stars in the NBA. We wouldn't think right now we we think right now that he'd be one of the top ten players in NBA if we looked at it, but we talked about Brown and that way no no, no, no. No, it's the most impressive difference between year-over-year. I think when coming back from 18 to nineteen or whatever year. It is brown in the bubble was outstanding and I think Brown is shown quite a bit of maturity wage. And his the way that he is reacting to difficult situations where Tatum tends to promote and pout a bit in when things don't go his way and a leader came to that brown. I think it's shown tremendous patience. And if you notice through all this I never said one second that I think Brown would leave Boston because I you know, anybody is anything's possible seen that over the last couple of years, but I don't believe like I'm not worried about that with Jaylin. I think he sees the big picture. I think he sees the culture and the franchise. I hope paid him does as well but there's off that agent Turpin in his ear and if Kyrie Irving has them on speed dial that dude is toxic stay away from him Jason. Hold on. I got I got a I can take this opportunity and Nick is more than anybody going to be excited for this but we got over here. We got over a thousand people in the street and I would be remiss if I did not mention our sponsor. Right, which is manscaped. So I go get the box you if you really want to get the box and get the box. Let me stand up and show you what we've done with man's Network off the internet. Let's tell everybody at home about our products are friends that manscapes here to remind you to take care of your biggest grooming and hygiene needs from head to toe with the shack in one manscaped performance package kit. Okay. So for your most aggressive hair below the waist nobody stand up, please OK imagine 3.0 massive read over the 2.0 massive upgrade one step further. They released their weed wacker that's ear nose and hair trimmer performance package. What's that? You get off are coming out of places. You didn't even know exist. Once you got we got we got some you can come 65 birth. This we got some news as well the crop preserver that's deodorant for you know where we've got foot gesture foot powder absolutely want to smell good everywhere ninja also will tell you man escapes cologne is all he wears now on top of that a shed travel bag to carry around all of your goods anti-chafing boxer briefs holds the whole package together with those are those are good. Yeah. So what do you do read it on the screen 20% off free shipping with the code Garden 20 at manscaped.com free shipping with the code and 20 minutes. Give me page to read that Robinson's. Yeah, we got news after that too. But let's do that first. All right, let me so everyone was talking everyone's been freaking out a little bit about Robyn Hayward what it is wage whether or not but she released a statement here on believe Instagram to ban her Robyn Hayward contrary to the media in Boston. I Nick wage. I can use that she it is right what the media was saying? Sorry. I have really enjoyed my time exactly translation. You're right, but I'm not getting satisfaction. That's right. Cuz I'm a woman named Jesus bacon eggs. I really enjoyed my time there and it would like to get that made. I'm going to miss the community. I lived in from the local police officers for checking in on me every day. Oh my God. Is that and send you a school woman? I don't read it. Any more serious about the wonderful friends. I've made at Roche Brothers. This can't be real is this fake know this is the way she does this at I mean she started I'm not going to suck The Cheese Shop. My neighbor I couldn't have been as happy as it was without all of you. Somebody give me a bath with you real trust is a hard thing to have in the NBA world, but I do trust my small community. Oh wow, always had my back. I mean she's basically saying it was a couple of neighbors and the guy off. The Cheese Shop in the cops really wasn't like me. Oh, no the cops. You never keeping us company while Gordon was away. I'm excited to see my husband show his talents again again on Saturdays cuz he didn't get to hear. Wow. You could I could I could unpack this thing for me. As I said that from the beginning Gordon Hayward was McCain who was the second option. The Kyrie Irving was here when you first signed him and then Gordon Hayward went to be maybe the fourth option. So what she said in is essentially without told you is that he he wants to go to a place where he's going to be a secret back. Let's look at like a football team when you say, okay, I'm going here. I'm going to be a featured back where I'm going. This is what's going to happen during the truck. So I can't be mad at him for that. I think that if anybody is okay you I understand as the player some time. You know and I'll tell I'll be like for me. For instance. I went from the second option the first option on this say you are seventy-eight when I was averaging about 90,000 the game to get Larry Bird and second option get Kevin McHale third option if Robert Parish score of options package option. So, you know understand certain things that you have the guy have to have guys who want the sacrifice and be in that position. We're in the hay with feels like he wants to be more than a prime-time position. So that's that's all it boils losing and he goes and gets a hundred twenty hundred and twenty million for four years, but you can't pass up on that kind of money you you stupid This Haley blue. I would I would be I was yeah from if we did that so you can't do that off. You know, I guess it out there for a bit Bobby. I meant to talk about it, but we were rolling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the Celtics are interested in bringing Paul Millsap aboard now. It appears which I love that guy is phenomenal. I bet you remember him from 2016 Max when he dropped 50 on the Celtics was there he's not that guy anymore, but he took a power forward you can start for you. He's a veteran and he's still got a lot of game left. That's that's the guy that I have always loved and I think you're saying the right thing. He's not that guy anymore that you saw three or four years ago. When does he do he can shoot the jumpshot? He can stretch the floor out. He rebounds he defends Soul brings you in a good presence if you think about having him in that position, and I don't know he he wouldn't be an to me right now. He wouldn't be a upgrade over Gordon and that's only because dead His age, I think what he did at that particular time how much the big thing? How much does he have left in the tank? I think that would be the big question. Can I can I just jump in a split-second? What month are we saying? Like 30 like like four minutes ago? It was let the kids play now we're talking about bringing in thirty-five-year-old Paul Millsap. Like why not? Why not take a one-year Band-Aid? Okay. Yeah, like you gotta fill this up with some give Rob Williams twenty eight minutes a game and see what he does next year. We'll probably Millsap next week or drinking wage. Well, I'll be I'll be with you in that sense Bob Ryan wrote an article in nineteen. Seventy eight about me and he talked about all those older players. We had at that time. He said, you know what screw that I see the future at power forward and that Cedric Maxwell let him make all the mistakes that he can make and he's going to grow and he's going to grow and become better. Now, you can say the same thing where what Rob were robbed. You can say the same thing to see Robert. Does he come in there's you give him those minutes. Does he become a better player for you? So now you have an opportunity to see what you have in him, I think so. I think you're right from that standpoint. They're saying, you know, do you want to just have to come in and give you 15 20 minutes when you can give those minutes to arrival Williams and then grow I understand whether it's him. I would rather take and again, these are not the greatest job. Name's Bobby but like I would rather take flyers on young guys who washed out somewhere else and see if they're both like Guiles for sure. I mentioned Josh Jackson. I've gone wage I know but I didn't in our free-agent discussion. I mentioned Josh Jackson as a let's go take this Lottery guy and see if we can develop him into it and maybe not a great three Indie guy, but at least a switchable thing that you can play with your guys and is it going to kill you? Maybe you can have a 2.0 life with him? That's what I mean by younger. You can almost like Belichick does this in in in in with the Patriots a lot? They call it second draft thing. Okay drafting you looked at in the first time around thought about maybe they would work here. They went somewhere else. And for whatever reason it didn't work there that could be because they can't play basketball and we and they got a judge poorly or they were just in a crap system and then you bring them in here and Brad gets Adam and Brad we know his strength is developing young Talent getting people to overachieve getting them to wage. I'd rather see us go after guys like that than a Band-Aid like Paul Millsap who is fine. I like him. He's fine. Paul Millsap is a type of guy you would have added in addition to the team that you have to help your and this is this is where we still disagree John. I want to give us a strong of a chance as we can to win next year. You're okay taking that step back to the 68th and Seed maybe bowing out there. They're not going there. No matter what I'm just saying I was saying thank you could I'm saying billed for what you can get to not just what you're doing. Now. Look ahead at least a couple of years. If if you're going to bring somebody in think that they can help you long-term. You don't bring in from Michigan you better any updates on a team that you don't need is going to contend this year. And again, I'm going to use another Sports analogy. I remember Theo Epstein when he was general manager of the Red Sox used to say all the time. Look we're looking to make the playoffs six or seven out of ten years and again in baseball. Harder to make the playoffs but the point being is if every single year I chased the thing. I don't have I'm going to kneecap myself in the ability to get to where I want to get to long-term the year. You'd need starting pitching you walk out there and you overspend on your John lackey's and your craft starting pitchers just to plug holes. Then it makes it so you can't improve yourself elsewhere down the road. So that's what I'm saying is don't just look at what this team tomorrow. Look at what you need to continue to be successful into the future. I kind of I see where you're going with with that because if you have a Robert Williams, you have to see what you have just say you roll the dice and he starts playing well now you have a guy who is Young who is the boss in your system already has an opportunity instead of those 15 minutes that you give to milsons. Would kneecap a guy like Robert Williams. So I see where you going. I don't I don't really like it because I've always loved Milsap but I understand she can see what is MIL sakta Milsap prisoner who he was three four years ago. We dropped 50 on you. Yeah, I'd rather see I like I said as you know, and that was those Seasons Max you've seen I mean all of us have seen it but those we're not saying this is one of those like rebuilt for the lottery let them Place sort of years, but that being said there's a there's a bit of excitement in seeing what kids can do there's been a couple of years where it's like, oh, I like this. I like this Vibe. So again, it's I'd rather than see Paul Millsap. That's just personally me doesn't mean you can't find other things here. I know we've talked about Erika. Jayne's people want to see Isaiah Thomas come back. I don't mind a couple of those guys. As long as they're on cheap one year doesn't he become I would take airbases guy. I would take before I would take Paul Millsap wage. And to happen and the reason I say that is because Aron Baynes in the post area, that's where you got that's really weak. It was attacking the rim is not getting locked out Millsap is a mishap is a nice size guy, but he is in the Bruiser or that North. And you think about drilling them being when he played against hair and veins dog and beans made them go through his body and milk and he slowed them down. So in vain to me feels more gas, that's what I'll say. Aron Baynes to me feels more gas bill step. Does Chinese are known commodity, you know where it's going to have a good attitude. He's going to be a good locker-room guy. You're going to get consistency out of them if he stays healthy Aron Baynes I think is a no-brainer. I think you have to go after Giles at this point. You do have to go after Giles. You need a project that I don't know if they believe in Rob Williams till I hope they do I Again Brad wouldn't play him in the playoffs. So that concerns Me, I mean I concerns me no offense to him cuz I like them. But yeah, I like I like to see Brad concerns me that is really key to what you're saying how much belief Dead red hair in Robert Williams. We've seen him with Robin Williams thrown in like 2 minutes here. We played four minutes good how good can he be? I think if you're going to like you said if you're going to roll the dice and not with him you put them in the lineup and you let him play and you let them make mistakes and let them grow and if he grows in to be the type of player what we know he can do with it. What what are his traits is great attributes. He can block shots. He can he he is a round the rim tore off his physicality in the paint. He's not anybody that's going to scare me. But if I go in there with some cheap stuff, I know he's going to open the front row, I would I would argue I would suck. Paul Millsap can help by Rob Williams cuz this guy rebound got some point before he can space the floor and apparently he's going to decide today. So we'll know whether or not Millsaps coming today. I see Monday is going to the Clippers. They lost their Center the other day. I think he makes sense there and R&B and he plays the five so he'd be another guy fighting for minutes with Rob Williams. I think Millsap gives you a little bit more faith. I don't think he fights for the minutes if he came here because I think you can really give the minutes because the thing that he does that Rob Williams isn't going to do now is a Prestige the floor out and now you have all five guys who are stretching out the floor. I think there's one games where we looked at. Aaron Bates had eight degrees said he had nine 3 AM. Come from let me let me ask you this. How many how many threes do you think right now? Rob Williams is go have for his career. Okay, thank you. I read I rest my case but brand has Taco practicing three days of practice. Oh my God, I can't believe Aron Baynes. I thought his game log last year. He goes nine 4:14 from 3 and a game. Where did that come from? He wasn't doing that your basis be started here. What you what you see over gas. Careers. Is them doing that? How horrible he became a 3.2 everybody does I remember talking to Alton Brown one time who you know was horrible and Philly as a general manager, but as a young player, I remember last couple of years of his career. I was out in the court just standing around his with the Clippers and I saw him out there shooting threes. I say man. Don't tell me you don't went to the the dark side. He said look man you Gideon or you get left. This league is you have to have that in your back pocket the ability to knock down the stretch. The floor out. Robin Williams isn't going to a gym. Kristofor out for you Maxwell. Would you be shooting threes in the league today know I'd have to be that after you have to or we've been killing them off. You know. Now the question about that is you have to we'd be out here killing him. You'd have to elevate your game. You think about rain of these shooting threes today cashing place. I came off the greatest player to ever play the game where they three point shooters. To jail really wasn't a three point Judith Hall of Fame Jordan was George Michael Jordan shot him later on this group a 3.6 the best player we've ever seen around would be Hakeem Olajuwon and we can talk about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar were three point shooters, but the game has changed where you have to have that back in your back pocket. I'm not sure if you can you eat this bread history talk. I know I don't understand. I just think fans. Here's the thing. If you're right now God bless you. You just want to know how they going to make it better off. Okay, and we don't know we don't know what that answer is right now. So right now all you have is the scenario of Gordon Hayward leaving for nothing. Nothing coming back in return fans suck entire couple of days crapping on Myles Turner. You know what Myles Turner look pretty freaking good in a Celtics game right now. Okay. So again, we don't know if Danny overplayed we don't know if you had them saying what happened here. We also don't know what behind-the-scenes relationship was the lens of the Celtics fan. You were only wondering you want somebody to hold you and tell you everything's going to be. All right. Okay. I thought you were so you're so right about that is that people know? I think that they know what went on behind the scenes. Yeah. You know what Gordon Hayward was talking about or if you home. An opportunity everybody thinks you cuz I don't know trigger that you could have pulled the trigger and said we're going to go right now to Indiana and we're going to get Miles Teller and we're going to get somebody off and we're going to ship Gordon. Hey with their we don't know what to go. We don't know if that's the only thing what we know is what really happened at the end of the day where Charlotte came in a a game Gordon Hayward a hundred twenty million dollars and they said that was the field talking Michael Jordan Junior lettuce friends is what we're saying, you let it get to this point if if you could have dealt Gordon a few weeks ago a couple of weeks ago to Indiana where he wanted to go and they they gave him for a hundred and that and he was happy then you walk away with something. We did not know if Danny had a deal and held it and pressed it. You don't know because you kind of juice and for a little bit more we're not you're going to get stuff from both sides to the Celtics pin is obviously going to be dead. Ride, nobody was biting Gordon. Wanted to see what offers were out there. But you might hear another side which is from Indiana. We would have pulled this Trigger 2 weeks ago and we were ready to go and if that's the case, like I said people are going to lose their freaking mind. So we people will people will tell you anything that you want to hear. We just you know, just make sure that we know right now he is not lost this election right now believe some votes were against him. He said I haven't lost this thing people will tell you what they want to hear. So that's that's the case axon. If if that's the case then I'm going to tell everybody out there right now. Gordon Hayward is still a Celtic. I don't care off. Fried prove to me that Charlotte actually gave him that money. Here's what I got really Celtics fans show because Gordon didn't log. For two of the three seasons and the Celtics fared pretty well and they're not Kyrie didn't play one of those seasons and the role players were not much better than they are. Now. The Celtics will be fine juice daily and we'll figure it out your problem you have in Boston and I'll put two nutshell gentleman, isn't you have a really good credit with Scouts Honor guys suck but what you are but but the problem with the Celtics you're measured by championships. You're not measured by having a good team. You measured by having a championship team. And that is the difference between where we're at with this thing. We can look at this team and there'll be some teams right now people right now who would be happy and Hale to have a team life is that was competing going deep in the playoffs. Boston Celtics fans are spoiled. It's about banners. It's not about winning of, Georgia. It's not look we went last year. Just think of it this way before the season was over. We were the old traded are left manscape Ian to say wage. That's a free plug for the train left man. Who are the ins for the Boston Celtics were in the farmers? We would nobody nobody in the beginning of the year. I said, well if I can get to the finals as a fantastic year. Well, they got to the finals and then we still weren't satisfied because we felt like they couldn't got to the the NBA finals in there the chance to win the championship. So we're spoiled as fans here with the Boston Celtics. So now let's just get it and put it on the table. You have a good thing. You have a nice player. You have a great coach. You have a great organization, but when you win a championship, that is what you guys are telling well and that's the thing is Celtics fans need to realize that song. Max maybe you do too. It's almost in the same duration of time between 08 and 86 and 08 and 2020. So, you know, the Celtics have been in quite a drought I think fans are often impatient. We watch them trade Paul Peirce away for the you know, all these Graphics. Yes. I got paid him. Yes, they got brown, but everything else has been kind of bumbled. Let me say this to all your cellphone years. You would kill yourself if you were Nick paying right now or a pest and you you would be happy you'll be if you had a team like this you would be you have a static but I'd also you're looking at the next day is going flat the self-esteem. They have problems. That's fine. That's fine. But you know, I'd kill myself if I thought it was four feet four foot nine inches tall, but I also don't want to be 5 3 like me doesn't matter you have what you have. It's just it is what it is like you don't want to go back. At any point, that's a great analogy like you tell your kids you have young was thankful for what you have you you that's where we're looking at the team and said, oh my God, we don't have anything, you know at the end of the day with this Gordon Hayward thing and I agree with both of you when like you wanted to get something back in return you get that let's let the process go. Let's see if this opens up other avenues right now for brown and for Tatum, they become even better players because you get more opportunities and Max that was all possible while also trading Hayward to receive something else. So again, all of that could have happened which is Thursday remove the wing you give more minutes and shots to those guys, which is something you want to do anyway, and you build a new supplement in other places that might be able to lift the team as a whole up you make the whole thing. No greater than the sum of the parts instead of just saying again, you go back to that team with Kyrie and with Gordon with and with Alan you're looking at all this talent but it didn't work on paper. You actually needed to subtract to make everybody else better. Kyrie leaving Marcus leaving made people better around the Marcus Morris because it in bolded them and empowered them to open up their games, but they're they're already you let me let me get this this what happens in somebody had this on the screen and they took my thunder what happens if you get a girl like Serge Ibaka, I was taking a bath now, you got you got eight million dollars and whatever else money you get. Can you go get a Serge Ibaka? How would he fit in with your team now? If you ever get him, he'd be a better version of Millsaps who were talking about would be thrilled. He loves amaka. I love they'll be serious competition for him though, and I think Toronto will want to keep him now that they've kept informed. But it's electronic your this is the Q ten million dollars here. That's what you can afford and that's and that's something John. You know, you're seeing a question. I don't think he's but you're not getting twenty million into the assign a backup for two years at nine million. I wouldn't be something if you would take it. I like him. No matter what I agree. I agree. I need one of those guys in need of the playoffs. We're going we're going on for Before we found out what the finished product is. Let's let's see what the finished probably is. We're just like oh my God, this is it. No, it's not it. No, we're saying it is but it's not very much. Now unless you got one card to play here. Okay, you you move Marcus which Celtics fans are loath to do cuz again, I'm just I'm not saying do it. These are the options you have or you move your ship Kemba if somebody wants them in an attempt to get younger. You can either I think you keep both now, you're right, but I'm saying if you want options, that's what you've got. I'm not saying it's the right choice. That's it though. That's your choice or you just run it we run it with what you have and you make Lucan you can do you find your tice's and your baby is you know, those guys are five million dollars six million dollar contributors who who can help lift you up and make it get you into the four-seat again and have you have a chance to and again. If you have another year of Tatum and brown development, you never know where you get to there, but there's no big moves, at least something drastic guys. He played fifty two games last year. How many back to the DMV a season have lasted? Eh 72. Okay. He missed 20 games like this dude eighteen. I think he paid what did he played the year before? I mean, let's just back it up. He was he was the Iron Man 4. Well when the man he played 72 games Seventeen were there and played one game Iron Man from Charlotte. So a word for word the thing that you make a mention of which sometimes it's true is once you get hurt it's easy to me. You know, what is no it scares me right now. What scares me is if Danny tries to do something drastic right now and tries to make a play at Hardin. Oh, I don't want James Harden. Look at Max's face. See this is this is where that beard even if you wanted to do that. I don't think you have the assets now and that's that's still what we get back to you don't have assets remaining from Hayward from these other guys. The biggest reason there was a case for trading Hayward was to get medium sized contracts to make a trade happen in the future. We're still at that point. You don't have big all the Turner and yes a few right now right now, the only good tradable assets are smart and whatever mid-level guy you would be bringing in so it's not a ton and it's definitely not for Hayward. Oh, yeah, but your own pics to you have Kem about it. They don't want to Kemba fire Brad Stevens. I mean this chat room fans are so proud. Everybody's angry we get we get we get our dudes. I'll be honest my patients guys. Go ahead Nick. Yeah. I mean there has to be some accountability to Brad Stevens in the last couple of years, so they're dead. Now before you start defending them and kissing his ass, I like Brad a lot, but this is year over year after year that down the stretch eighteen. We had bought a smart in game seven last year was a disaster Kyrie last year ended up with a disaster in Eastern Conference Finals. Kyrie was a disaster. So I mean there's I like Brad, I think you've really thought there's got to be a point where we say, maybe if the one guy who was supposedly like a brother little brother to him. Wanted to leave. I don't know. I mean that was a nightmare that was embarrassing in the playoffs when when Marcus Martin is gone and his teammates and it just we've all been in that in the back office is an embarrassment when you're yelling at your teammates. No, no, no that that went out to the media to get out to the media was embarrassing. I don't care how often we gets out teams are going to have that kind of stuff and it's not sync. Everything is going to be behind closed doors. The Magic Wok out in the hall and told me I don't care if you walked out and took their pants now when you play on with the T and you get emotional and did you want markers to be happy about that. Marcus, I think the control room before Matt did with him be a man did they send your 14 and then they get the guy they lost the following game Let's dead. We're getting we got to put a bow on it at the end of the day. I think this everybody's instinct is always going to be to look at who to blame. All right, everybody in James Annis blame John Susannah everyone took for insecure to blame at the end of the day. I don't know that you can place blame on the Hayward situation here simply because I think this was how it got played Indiana's out there on the table, you know that helps drive off the price Charlotte swoops in last minute Jordan cycle, right if it's going to take this to get it done. That's what it's going to take and he does it and he's gone, you know, if you're Danny your left holding the bag on a few unfortunate situations happen and you wonder what he could have done potentially to Stave it off and advanced. The answer is I don't know. I don't know if anything that's the thing. It just is the reality the reality is though that it sucks. And that's what I thought about is that it sucks. Yeah. Okay. So when something happens you want to turn around and blame people it's going to make you feel better. I don't know. Well when we unpack it over date any chance you'll see what happens. Well, you know what? I need to be like Rick Pitino there when you say the fans right now all this negativity. All this stuff is going on Robert Parish and Kevin McKell lehrberg very welcome back through this door if they do their old and gray this is sports town in the world. I mean he went on and on but I think again because we have a team and we have organization which has been so good for so many years. All we want is more at the end of the day and do we deserve more as a whole question. That's a that's a question. A lot of us have behaved this. This makes me say what I always say 2018 you said we'll be back last year you lose you said we'll be back. You never know. You gotta take advantage of that moment when your desk wage. They're very true the other the opportunity that you had last year against Miami and and Nick will tell you that normally I am not a depressed person. How could they give me the Miami and they lost I was depressed because I saw there was a possibility of pathway open for you to beat off a team in L A that I thought that you were capable of being with the team that you have right now. All right, so guys I want to tell everybody again before we close it up here and we thank everybody Cedric Maxwell sucks Legend Celtics broadcaster NBA Finals MVP boys his birthday birthday. Happy happy birthday either like Stevie Wonder then don't do it. Okay, boys. We were trying though for the for the Thousand but for the thousands of people of hopped in and out of this stream, we thank you do recognize some of you are angry and some of you think every one of us individually are idiots become a group I get it. I am going to wag my finger a little bit at the two to three people who are like who the hell is Max? Yep. Bring it over here to do your homework guys. This is a Celtics chat. Who who is Max my god. Grow up number to Weinberg who I am off. Next time. You come to the Garden what I can say what the hell you want to say about my life and what I've done but two championships our phones MVP. Let me see let that speak for my dad. These are these are a couple of outliers hear. The rest of the chat is good and Cornbread see a lot of cornbread Max Meadows Coco Coco. Yeah, once again shout-out Oscar man escapes 20% off free shipping at the code Garden it manscaped 20. Max is going to go back to doing whatever Max does and hopefully birthday is going to go use those manscape products right now Bob. He's got to do some write-ups on this Celtic stuff. I'm literally going to page. Robyn Hayward post and problem or shine write a ten thousand word essay on something before I go. Yeah. I'm going to say a word me that everybody understand. How bout you but nevermind you just lost all our sponsors page will if there's more moves will be back out here. I can't promise Cedric Maxwell every time this is a rare rare treat for us. So perhaps we're thankful. We're honored. We love it when you joined. So, yes, thank you. Never had so much fun guys people who say that was an idiot. I enjoyed, you know, you can't walk when you take time to go on your computer and tell me that I'm an idiot. That's a beautiful thing that I have consumed in some form of fashion. So it's a beautiful thing and if you if you don't already dead, The Cedric Maxwell podcast is an absolute must listen and must subscribe. So if you do two things before you hop off the streams, please press subscribe to this YouTube channel. Is that way that way every single time we go live and we're going to do it a ton during the rest of the offseason any time there's news and throughout the year will be doing post-game shows that you'll get notifications immediately turn on your notifications. You'll know we go live. We've got a ton of success the last few days have it all you guys on here. It's been awesome subscribe to Cedric's podcast immediately. Okay, it's one of the best in town. It's Unique. It's not just off of all its life. It's everything you would want to discuss or or or here Max talk about with great guests great topics no-holds-barred one of the best podcasts around and no commentary a hundred episodes this hundred and we have got a great video on there right now. We went live with don't Theory the other day Bobby Manning, of course doing great work for us seemed Svideo.com that's where you'll find all of our stuff. Thank you everybody again for joining. We're going to sign off face fan.

Gordon Hayward Celtics Danny Gordon Charlotte Hayward Tatum Terry Rozier Boston Kyrie Irving Al Horford Romeo Langford Kemba Walker Indiana Brown Nick Cedric Maxwell four hundred million dollars brown Marcus Smart
99: Breaking down Gordon Hayward trade and free agency options

Winning Plays

51:24 min | Last month

99: Breaking down Gordon Hayward trade and free agency options

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns Via Network. The leading online provider for the India is winning is there folks welcome in to the winning Place podcast. My name is Brian Rob joined by Ryan burn dhoni for I think this is your tenth or fifteenth podcast talking about Gordon Hayward in the last two months trying when we were at this point. This is my job now are still around talking about or writing about Gordon Hayward topic of the day. It is topical today. And so this is you know, we were going to talk more about this down the line but there is some new new Buzz about Gordon Hayward situation coming off of the the low Pope Lowe post podcast that came out on Monday between Zach Blom works. A lot of that is, you know, play territory that we have covered here before on the winning Place podcast. And while I have you please rate review subscribe to the winning Place podcast dead. Cuz I always forget that but right there was some you know, this was the same things. We've been you've been talking about we've been talking about for four months now, but it's a nice if the NBA schedule looking to be full, you know steam ahead in terms of free agency starting right in next month and the season starting shortly thereafter and December something is going to happen here and wants trading becomes on the table November and I don't know I guess the biggest thing from that podcast is that you know, the song these not not that any of these scenarios were too far-fetched in the big enough, but there seems to be some, you know, at least some scuttlebutt around a league that you know, you know hayward's Agent Mark team is doing is his due diligence here in terms of Hayward situation seems like it. It's it's obviously been one of the big risks that that's been out there sort of hanging over the team for the whole wage. The whole season it's something that I was trying to address back in January sort of saying it may seem like he's definitely coming back and in one manner or another but you just never really know when we all thought that was the case with with Al Horford as well. I think they even said that might have even said on that podcast that he's doing a Horford or something along those lines where he's looking around for a way to either move out of the Celtics cuz he wants something different or to just maximize the amount that he can he can get whether or not that's leveraging something to try to get something out of Boston or legitimately looking to move to another team. We we don't know we thought there's no way for us to know really right. So but it's if you're a Celtics fan, I mean it's it's not the report that you want to hear that, you know, even if you're somebody who's not a big Gordon Hayward fan the fall off of him potentially walking away for nothing is is really significant. So not a not a great day on that front, but you know, you gotta that's the risk its birth. And let's start with that line goes by marks in line saying you know that Hayward maybe poor Mark bartelstein Heritage. Am I pulling an Al Horford here? And we're I think well, that's it makes sense because you know as we know Horford was in the same situation last year for player option most people assumed that if he declined that he would come back and longer extension for for less money. And I think that the key difference here for at least a seller's perspective when they're you know, kind of viewing their options here in terms if if trades do you become more pressing or on the table more in the coming weeks is that Hayward doesn't have or won't have close to the market that Al Horford have and that's more of a result of circumstance anything else. There's just I mean right now after you know, I think you can count maybe six teams around the league Ryan that have over twenty million. In cap room and the only one number only one of those teams that are actually good as are the Miami Heat and I think it's safe to say that Gordon Hayward is no longer on their wish lists in terms of money. They have two bigger Stars. They're going to be targeting long-term. So coffered was able to go to a place where you thought it was going to be able to win and get his money to Hayward is not going to be able to do that in free agency the summer it looks like I don't know if I would go to the point of saying that it's impossible that he could do that for one Miami. I don't think is a option to sign in free agency. Although there could potentially be something where he hops in and there's a trade that goes there when he's hanging something else over there had the timing on that's a little more difficult we can talk about that. The one that was mentioned again on that pod, which we will I'm sure reference over and over again is Atlanta and I wasn't good this year but is a team that has, you know Trae young and and Gordon Hayward and Clint capela and some sort of development from some of their young wings that is that a team that Cup playoffs in the East, you know, that's feasible. This is going to deeper next season than it was this season, but it's not like impossible now is a title team know obviously not but it's a team that wage isn't out of the question in terms of being a winning team. But yeah, if he's looking to opt out and sign, you know a free agent contract that's not some ridiculous, you know, Emily or something else. That is not going to be for a title contending team. If he stays in Boston, then it might be certainly more of a title contending team than any of the options that are out there. So yeah from that perspective I get that it's not the same Market as Horford, but it doesn't really matter. Right if there's one team that he is willing to go to in that wants to sign him for the money that he's looking for. It doesn't matter if there's five teams are one that one team can make it a moot point right and just sign him. So I think that it's a legitimate threat, you know, it doesn't like I said, it's not like you can go sign for five different team if he's willing to Atlanta and either veteran who makes quite a lot of money for that team trying to to make Trae young happy then that's an option. So yeah, I I think they're maybe not even five ten years not even six things. I'll have twenty million. But if you want to run down the other ones that are you know possibilities just for free agent stuff Atlanta Charlotte Detroit, like you said, Miami, but Thursday, Different situation cuz what they're angling for, you know next year and also some of the stuff that they do this here the Knicks maybe the sun's get interesting. I don't think they have enough money to see if they let go Sergeant Barn in veins like if they like they have guys didn't want to keep potentially even then you get to I don't know if you get to a number that gets them to opt out unless it's like he just wants to leave Boston. Now. I'm sort of similar to Atlanta Phoenix if you put him into that team think it's an interesting team be better than the Hawks but you're in the west. So it's harder to make the playoffs stuff like that. But it's it's certainly another interesting team. You also get to the world of stuff. I'm sure we'll talk about where if one of those teams is offering something and he's willing to go there than it does open up cycle and trade possibilities where you could say, you know, I'm going to Atlanta unless you sign and trade me to whatever other of these you know, he's really angling for right now. So there's there's suddenly seems to be a lot of moving parts and a new threat that we had all been sort of just dead. Have hoping would go away if we didn't talk about it. And so I mean for Atlanta, I mean, I think Atlanta is the key here to that leverage since that is the you know, the the trump card if he if they have the big offer page him for him. They do want to win now is does bring in a thirty-year-old Hayward to go if that you have a cord make a ton of sense like know but then but then you look at whether the Hogs and then you look at the free agents this year and it's like well, there's not there's not too many other guys that make sense. They're either and they're gonna have to spend that money. So from that standpoint cuz you know, they're obviously they have bigs covered with Bella and and Edmund and then you're not you're not going to bring in Van Fleet there to play with Trae young to have like the smallest back or whatever term so they found a couple of young wings, but they weren't particularly good last year in camera. She yeah. She was okay after the cave, but there is this the sort of Snowball Effect that happens with all these same thing is happening with the Celtics now if they want to bring back John Collins when his contract ends Trae young eventually his contract will end like their stuff down the line. We're signing a thirty-year-old now, you know, it might not be great if they sign up for four years and Last year or two, but they're the Hawks. They Fox it like the making the playoffs is a thing that the Hawks strive for and that's a realistic thing. You have to look at across the league not every team is actually trying to win the title and put together the absolute best core. They can you know, their their teams out there that will would you know gladly give up opportunities to be better to change their odds of winning a title of the next ten years from birth percent to 6% Not every team is trying to do that. I don't know if the Hawks are and like I could certainly see them making that signing it and for the next couple of years if Hayward stays healthy, it would make them better and it would maybe pacify Trae Young Who seems to already be sort of like there's nothing you can do about it obviously for a while, but who seems to be sort of like hey this team isn't very good and I'm stuck here and I didn't sign up page you drafted me. I didn't sign near like what's going on and so from a certain perspective that that may also be a factor but really I think the big factor is their you know, their the Hawks they would be happy making the playoffs birth. And I think that's you can't really like you said forget that. Yeah and fixed it. There are either a lot of kids running like them like Sacramento, you know, they're just a lot of things that have been bad for a very long time and if they can get anyone that's close to an All-Star player, um that wants to play there or is willing to sign there and it depends what money is right. Like are these things going to sign if he's he's going to be a ten year veteran? He's not going to get 35% of the cap for four years with 5% raises from all these things. Right? But if somebody can sign him on a contract with thoughts relatively high and descends over the course of a couple of years and he still makes a hundred million dollars over four years. I don't know if the Celtics will be willing to do that. But the Hawks might be willing to do that particular, you know, like I said this ending salary they have the space to make contracts that are interesting that they could work with and then three years down the line you figure it out and certainly wouldn't be the first time we've seen that kind of operating procedure. Well, and here's question that you know, the others are in need to have an answer to Is obviously what price are they willing to go to for an extension and be is it would Hayward rather play for one of these other random teams, even if the Celtics meet that price range is going to be first thing, right if he just doesn't want to be an features doesn't want to be on the Celtics anymore. He looks at it and says this has been a curse and you know, I'm constantly getting injured the whatever fan interactions. My family may want to be here tired of Brad Stevens being my coach for most of my life like whatever it might be. I'm not saying any of those things are the case, but if you wants to leave you can opt out and leave like that. He left Utah you trying a few top for Charlotte once it's not exactly what he was going big Market hunting that time and then they matched and he came back and then he left and if he leaves Boston, it's not like it would be some new thing that we've never seen from above. And I mean Charlie did offer in the max Utah was you know middle at that point. Yeah, like that's that's it's off. The motivations could go in all sorts of directions there. So it's not and on times. I've tried to talk to about during the past season and he you know has kept his cards close to the vest understandably. So at that point them in terms of what he really wanted the long-term so that that's you know, clearly not can be, you know could be some sort of a mystery to the C's but they'll be obviously looking for some clarity on that in the next few weeks as decision time comes to do so We talked about obviously the possibilities there on the opt-out situation for a word not a lot there a lot of it rides on whether Atlanta's going to pay up. If not, it's unlikely that any of these other teams we mentioned would you know pay enough pay more than this other to be willing to offer an extension. So even then if the Celtics would probably it's it's hard to Envision him turning down thirty-four million dollars in signing for a hundred in like, you know, the Knicks were sitting on next month's rent right that New York has no attraction to him and he doesn't want to go and be the Temporary face of the Knicks with RJ Barrett and I don't know right like that doesn't make many many. It doesn't make much sense to me know the other. I don't know. It doesn't seem like yeah, I agree the free agency. It seems to hang right so that that's the big one Domino and that's that's if that is not there. Then the next thing we get to organically is back on and trade possibilities a straight-up trade is also in place you if you just you know option for the one year at thirty four million dollars, there are combinations that couldn't play their game that can make sense for everyone. But the more intrigued wanted to me that they talked about a little bit more about low post and would make sense from haywards age and kind of sniffing around right now is a Thursday trade since they're not, you know teams aren't going to get up a lot for Hayward if You're on a game for one year if you can lock him in at a reasonable price for three years or four years, then the the price changes a little bit or at least you're breaking up a little bit more to make it worth every once awhile such a from the Suffolk standpoint. If you're a team of felt cap room, the wait is finally over football is back. You might not be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action at Birth online been online is going the extra mile to make sure you can get it on everything imaginable the season from game spreads and totals to team player and coaching props that online gives you more options to wager than any place online, You can get it on their season-opening bonuses today and start off. We doing on wind vision and Championship Futures as well have to bet online today to take advantage of all the grade signup bonuses BetOnline your online Sportsbook experts. Where do you want to start here Ryan? Is there are there is there a sign-and-trade team at 6 out for you there? I have a couple new ones on that mean we've we've we've talked about Sacramento a lot of Harrison Barnes. That's always been there. The Dallas Mavericks is there I think those are two logical ones if he just stops in but is there any thing to get sticks out off hand, you know just from the science very possible. Yeah, it's so nothing particularly sticks out to me as a as a sign-and-trade destination. I think a lot of the same teams that would be options. If you were to opt-in or just sort of naturally become the sign-in page options. There's a couple of things that people need to maybe keep in mind on this. So the first is you're looking for teams that can't don't have space to sign them in free agency. Right? So you age of knock off the few that that we talked about but a team that receives somebody in sign-and-trade gets hard capped and we have no idea really where the luxury tax is going to be yet. It's not recording today seems like it may be a hub. I'm thirty-nine million dollars, even if they keep the CAP Lower. So the pre covet projections for the salary for the luxury-tax. Even if they set the salary cap more than that as a direction. I've always thought made sense so long to me sort of logically. I'm like that should do that, but I don't really know but that's that's really talk is but if you receive somebody via sign-and-trade then your heart capped it would not hard cap the Celtics important to keep in mind as well. But that sort of limits some of the options that you can get into right like if you want to come up with a sign-and-trade for the Warriors that doesn't it's not going to work properly cuz they're going to be hard kept I wouldn't able to live with that. So there are some of the main factors there but I mean, yeah to me there are teams that we have looked at in the past like Dallas that make more sense as a trade partner if he opts in And so part of this is sort of conversational between the team and the agent and all that. Like I'm going to opt out unless you trade me, you know, I'll often but you have to trade mean if you back out on this you'll burn this bridge forever. Whatever might be it might be something like that and then there's others where you opt out and then you get traded there's a third option of him opting in getting traded signing an extension somewhere down there really can come up with all these different ways to top rated but I don't know if you have one other thing that stands out to me of like that is specifically a sign-and-trade option and not just an opt-in other circumstances trade option that we talked about like none that like really stand out to me. I mean, I think the couple that stand out one would be Orlando because you don't that's a team that off now that they didn't come up if you just stops in but that's a team that's a due for a shake-up of a bunch of parts that haven't, you know necessarily fit in together well, but give birth Are there the franchise it doesn't make a ton of sense to give up anything that good for if you just get Hayward for a year and you obviously know he's a Flight Risk. If you get him to walk in for a couple of years, then you can say okay, like maybe Aaron Gordon comes on the table if if you sweeten the offer if Celtics like you throw in a a low first round pick or you take back a bad contract like a month. So that's one to me the where it's the having that security attached to Hayward word make Orlando more willing to talk about some options a Terrence Ross obviously is another name there that would have appeal and has some decent value. Yeah. I mean, I I agree with that that there might be teams that we would talk about in the normal context of co-opting in and being traded that would prefer it to be a sign-and-trade for that exact reason that they can lock it in but I think largely it's the same likely Universe of teams, right? So Orlando might prefer that name. Memphis it also makes make a little bit of a bigger difference if they were able, you know, if he was able to to sign-and-trade there was something a little bit longer term as I said like Dallas is probably the other way where they would like it to just bought a straight, you know, the contract already has cuz they're keeping space open for Yanez, and he would be maybe a fallback option so you can kind of mix it up and say yeah this would you know, preferably via sign-and-trade versus versus an opt-in and then get traded somewhere. There's also I suppose the Celtics have him opt out and just re-sign him there as we as we talk about this probably the thing that would most like that to happen, but we talked about this thing that I still think that's probably their preference. Yeah. Oh sure. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the obvious one. I mean, I went through pretty much all the teams and I came up with like, I don't know eighteen teams that that would have like some semi viable trade option with him opted-in. With a with a sign-and-trade some of those again, you know may fall off. They might prefer to different way. But in large part you're looking at these the same teams and say Hey, you have 18 options that I'm starting with. Like there aren't a whole lot of other teams that that would potentially get involved only under a sign-and-trade circumstance of that sort of part of why I'm saying like, yeah, I don't know if the world of possibilities is all that different. The math would be a little bit different if he's finding trade for something starting at you know, twenty-five million instead of instead of 34 something that that you actually asked me about I think last week and I haven't really talked about much at all. I said if he hops and there's a trade kicker that possibly gets involved like he has a lot of control over the situation here between the ability to opt out and go sign somewhere the ability to opt out threatened to go sign somewhere else and force a sign-and-trade opt-out come back up in he has his trade kicker then becomes a factor in in some potential trades like He holds a lot of cards here and and I think the universe of teams that would be interested in him in some form or another is quite large, even though you know with the injury claim that it's just not a lot of like multifaceted wings that are available this year. So he's one. All right. Here's another one. I'm actually looking through your list right now. We can't up the exact same one on a deal that has really been talked about at all. But I think this another one where an extension could come into play for the team on there coz that's the Denver Nuggets Gary Harris and Will Barton for Hayward the money matches up there. That's not good money on either of those contracts for the Celtics and it hurts them next season 1 Statham contract kicks in at the same time. That's still a movable asset which is what you you know what since you would have with Cameron defeat if you stayed for a month or year, so That's kind of a win-win move now for both sides or at least, you know from a Denver effective. I think, you know the ultimate toon Nichols for a dime trade and banking on his car being the better all-around player and fit as a third option next to yoga. Jan-marie. I am I crazy about it from the subject. I mean that that's that's an intriguing one. I mean if you got into a an opt-out and sign-and-trade situation, they're like it would depend on how much how much Hayward is signing for but you may even be a situation where you aren't taking both because the money is a problem anyway, like it might just be that he hops out and you trade him for Gary Harris wage, like I don't I don't love that. But if a year down the line, you're trading Gary Harris is part of a Bradley Beal package because he's an expiring contract. He makes twenty million dollars and it's like get it keeps like Georgia Avenue is of development and you know open 2 to how the team goes whereas if you just walks away. Would you rather have Gary Harris making too much money or nobody and be over the cap? I guess you would rather have Gary Harris, even though he's overpaid you would definitely be able to get yourself under the tax this year. And like I said, you would have that salary at least to try to move something minor maybe he comes back and shoots 37% from 3 again and realizes that he can do that and it helps the team as well, you know in in the short term, but I'm not sure if it would take Harris and Barton. I would have to look up the whole situation with their luxury-tax with Murray's extension kicking and they may actually have hard cap problems and taking in with the sign-and-trade unless they moved out both of them. So there might be more to it than that taking. Yeah, but taking care of Sandburg and I think the Celtic would have to try to move one of them somewhere else pretty quickly just because of financial considerations and and also, you know, especially that second years, but also it would be gone that secular picture, right? Yeah by the by the second year one of them at least one of them has to be gone. Ideally. Both of them are gone and somebody better has come into her place and via some other Avenue, but birth I think that's one of the more realistic possibilities either via an opt-in or assign entry to be honest. Right, cuz I mean that's I feel like the what should be the market for Hayward here, tax base their their far enough under the tax not have to worry about the hard. Yeah, and they do have them and they have some key free agents and Millsaps and Thursday Grant who they just won't bring Millsap, right? They would that be hammered be ready. Like that's Jeremy Grant your four and right. So hey, we're good. You know, that's a that's a team where the fit is there for? Okay. Hey, we're this is a guy who could put us over the top, you know, we got closed but we're still missing but they can make him but they can think I mean that you know, they're not going to get they're not gonna get a better option to to do that. I sort of Porter becoming an All-Star package put some over-the-top is that you'll get twins the MVP becomes Dirk right? But but certainly, you know, Marie Hayward who's really more of a two three these days than a 3/4 like he was in Utah, but you know pre-injury and then it's Grant and Porter isn't a perfect fit on on the wing. They're both a little bit forced but like those wings jokic is obviously great like that is certainly dead. That could you know, they could be the the top, you know, two or three seat in in the west and it would also extend out some the window. I don't think that they're super thrilled about having I guess this is a but Will Barton or or Gary Harris either for you know for the money that they're making so that seems like I said, one of the more reasonable ones which is probably why we both came up with it off. Other teams in player we talked I mean the Pacers deal I've been talked about a Lange. I wrote a wrong thing about this Friday. I mean, we're both not fans of Miles Turner. And so if you're not home of Miles Turner, you're not going to you know, go crazy about this deal and it's hard to Envision Indiana giving up much more than that knowing that they could conceivably just signed Hayward next year if he in fact wants to go home and play there. They should have enough be able to open them enough cap space to do that. So for me, it's like unless TJ Warren or Aaron holiday or one of those guys gets on the table, which is very unlikely to happen. I I think you can do better elsewhere than the Pacers. Yeah, I agree with what you started with that. Like if you're a Myles Turner fan, you're going to think that getting Myles Turner is good. And if you're not then you're not. I don't think it's a good allocation of resources to to get the you know, the exact center for average salary, you know for starter salary money just cuz it's not a position where you need to spend the money as the Celtics have already displayed this year. So that's my problem with that one. You're going to get into therapy these conversations. That's where it's some of them land. Like there are people who think that the Celtics are a contender and that Gordon Hayward needs to be here and you can't trade him under any circumstances. That's fine. If that's what you believe. There are people who think Myles Turner is a top ten cents off. That's fine. If that's which will leave. I just you know, there's disagreements there and you're just banging your head against the wall. If you try to try to win that that argument with anybody I think who takes up position. So yeah, I'm with you on that though. And so now I think we're just kind of left with teams that are you know, middling low playoff team or want to be playoff teams. Whether it's Phoenix we talked about them briefly wage over a junior. Is there the XR really only possible as a sign-and-trade is just right and I guess maybe that's the team that I should have said is like because I have been talking about them as like in a frenzy they would could pick up to enough money to just sign them. They probably can't the most logical way to there is a sign-and-trade they don't have quite enough money under the cap to sign him, but that would also mean that they wouldn't have to send back a whole lot in order to gain enough to get under the cap. Like the Celtics would probably some sort of trade exception of like you can make an unbalanced trade with them that would still end up working under the cap. And yeah someone like uber a wage over and stuff you'd have to get more than your brake expiring is expiring now. He's got excited to year 30 million year old 3 million dollar deal last offseason and they obviously place Well, I found him in the bubble when he was hurt. So definitely not great. And I mean Uber Eats ton else. There is the problem like there's all the tenets that they would looking to be trading if they are already dead. You know, they it's it's back in the Dork sign-and-trade for signs radiation. Well, that's nice day for Cheyenne. Cause a problem for the Celtics. I guess if it's with them it wouldn't obviously they're not going to give up. We're just not going to happen. You know, Steven Johnson know SARS was also afraid of the freezer the 10th pick come in. Can you this crap sucks and you get you get Kelly who pray and the 10th pick like the 10th for the 26th and Kelly oubre gets involved like it's possible you can see again. That's the thing that makes sense structurally like if Rubio I'm assuming Rubio will continue to be there under the circumstance but you know, I don't know Rubio Booker Bridges 8 in Hayward, I like an exact best five is dead. Who's the four in that sort of line up and all that? But like I don't know. They're they're trying to make the playoffs. You can see that making a lot of sense right Sacramento off of it's not you don't need a sign-and-trade there. That's a simple Hayward for Barnes and stuff option that will be on the table again, if you can squeeze enough a dog Kings in terms of other assets sure, but I don't know unless they're just desperate to dump Barnes as money dumped some long term money there since they got a lot of it on the books. I'm not sure how much you're in get for one of your favorite there. Yeah. I mean, I think getting out of the barns contract is probably fine from their perspective, especially just get buying hayward's bird rights and And they don't really need his bird rights for where they are with with free agency space but getting them in for a year and potentially, you know, having them like it there and and wanting to say it's also you know, it's also just like you're giving away Harrison Barnes who I don't particularly love he's probably slightly overpaid. It's not a huge deal either way. Like it's just one of those things where you're kind of getting them for free so long, I don't know. It's one that makes sense from I think more from the Celtics perspective that for where the kings are but it's another team with the kings of like I just don't really know what the kings ever want to do. And so you can't take them off the table cuz it's like maybe they maybe they see a lot of value in trying to make the playoff. They got new management in there to actually hear ya. I don't know a lot of the stuff comes down from ownership in terms of like what your goals are for the next year or you know, what what sort of directive they've given management and if they say we want to go and push create seed then that trade might make more sense for them, but Like I said, I think it's more sort of Celtics. I'd look of like what are you trying to get? Oh, hey, okay player who fits in the rotation and I just sending salary and something else and they don't know how far it actually goes. Do the Cavs have any useful trade assets on the roster. This is one again from the Pod right from the the the exact spot where he was talking about Drummond and chetti Osmond and it's like is that a good contract? I got a good country know like and he's just bad like it's not he's he's not a player that you want to have. Playing a significant role on a like team that wants to be good. I don't think So I don't know like Andre Drummond and swap five 4:14, you'd be like that that's much more of a Hayward opted instead of trade than than opt out and sign and trade but that was the one that yeah that Zac was putting I think it was like Drummond Osmond and a future pick. Yeah, cuz V pic is too good. But anyway, they're going to suck forever right then after I don't acted. Yeah, you have to practice so heavily that like is that going to just turn into like two seconds five years down the line or something? I don't I don't know about that one. Plus I am I really don't like under, you mean the one you can player I hate cuz it was terrible you comment was just miserable and even danced Juniors contract is like that's okay, but like knowing it's really doesn't have any real value there to just sweeten the deal for like taking on Drummond or whoever think like John Hollinger or something. I don't know dead. I was you can let me put it down for old of a of what I do on the weekends, which is rake leaves at this time of year. And while I was raking leaves in my yard, I was listening to podcast. I think it was Hollinger. I don't remember with who said he thought it was one of the best non Max non rookie contracts in the league and that's crazy talk like yeah, I don't see that at all in the top 100. Sure. Yeah. I'm 109 hurricane on drugs availability is Larry Nance Jr. If you're talking up again, if you're talking opt out and then he goes to the team and says like I'm signing Trader. I walked to Atlanta. I guess you'd do it. But like it's really you're really talking about like is it better than nothing? And for the same reason I'm just losing the salaries lot and hoping that you'll be able to flip it for something else down the line. I guess you would have to do it. That's not exciting. Agreed and so the last couple sign-and-trade possibilities. I have here A Team I want to win right away or make a splash it when you right away Minnesota. They have they have towns. They have a they need a wing other one that does not work without the 8th. The exact then it's not just the map doesn't work. Exactly but you get here would locked in for three years, you know, whatever seventy-five eighty thousand ask for a hundred million to to be in in Minnesota. Um, but the If you look at they have James Johnson the James Johnson expiring that you've right know that you end up having to take back and then like what are you getting for it? Right? Cuz that's nothing contract to begin with that's negative value. They're signing him. So they obviously think that they're signing into a positive value contract. Like what else are you really getting? There is Jerick over good and over with so bad, right, you know probably took a offering. Yeah. Sure. I mean they don't again another report that I can't remember who it was from where somebody was talking about how like they they're like going to shy about their draft pick this year because they screwed up the Jericho so badly to the point where like have they already given up on him. He was really terrible and he's not, you know, you see sometimes though. It's a it's a big man and they struggle with defense the first year or he's a point guard and they struggled like he was bad at home. I mean, he's a William can't shoot and doesn't do much of his supposed to be really good defender in like really really struggled offensively and can't shoot at all. Do you see what his free-throw shooting numbers are at home? It's like what's that like below 50% or 46% Yeah, he's really really was awful last year. He's anyway sort of a wing but he wants to handle the ball, but he can't shoot and she kind of I don't know Evan Turner e in that in that respect where it's like, yeah, if you can't you don't sort of Hit the Threshold at anything you just sort of our below it and all but if you also shoot 47% from the brake line, that's more than a red flag. So that's where I come with that one is I'm just left the prior don't you want that? Would you do that? Would you call Vern Johnson for hammer in the central? Yeah. Like that's a No-No cuz the problem there is that that Johnson his contract doesn't carry on long enough to like be really confident. You're going to flip it you get the mid-season and like maybe there's something that's still trying to clear cap space and get back a bad longer contract for it, but you're not there's no this isn't turning into anything particularly positive and Culver because he was drafted high like it's not like he doesn't make any money. And at the end of the year, you might be declining as fourth-year option anyway, and like there's just I don't see any real at that point. You might actually just have to let Hayward walk instead of taking that. Yikes, I was I was like, oh me go throw Culver and then I look like I'm like, I'm like no that's he's just not good. Like there would be a question of if he was if a order was signing for, you know low 20s, like would you just take James Johnson knowing just for the hope that you can trade in, you know and at some point but you should be able to do better than that like it's I think usually tell them to go sign in Atlanta at that point. You're like no wage doing that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean if that's if that's the like all right send me the Minnesota or else I'm going to Atlanta like far-fetched situations. It's like yeah, but even sauce, it's like I see him like doing that. I just can't see him doing that with those two teams. Yeah in terms of where how this might play out. And what about Chicago? Yeah. Yeah. This is the next one. I was going to bring up their page. You have Otto Porter Jr. Piazza and you need if you opt out of water in like a lot of things it's difficult with him because when he plays he's useful, but sort of like Hayward like he doesn't play that often and I think a game Injury was kind of a scary one in terms of like long-term prognosis. Nobody's exactly sure what it what it is and how it's developed any of like nerve. I think he's similarly had like nerves like core issue something that weighs. Yeah may be wrong about that. It was a wired prognosis though. So he's played how much and he's played seventy games in the last two years. Yeah, it's not great when he does play he is sort of perfect for what you would want. Right? He's a big Wing a sort of a not a great defender, but he's okay. He he's a very good 3-point shooter is a sort of person is good is analytics stuff is good for fitting into to what what you might be looking for. Um, but if it's if it's an opt-out sign-and-trade there are other players that could get involved that young is there is a tarantula a solve the backup point guard problems. I don't want to really talk about Zach LaVine. I don't think they would be signing him if they were trying to trade Levine. I don't think that would make a whole lot of sense and then you get into the young, you know, some of their young bigs where they were trying to move Market in. I don't think they're trying to move Wendell Carter. Maybe you have to involve draft picks in there, but there's enough pieces or if he is opting out and doing a sign-and-trade where it's like You can sort of oh, yeah bad young and Market in for a sign and traded Hayward plus a pic right like so you can make that math work probably dead. But again, I mean if he's opting out in like putting putting you to the front you are in most cases answering the question of like Just would I rather have him walk away? Would you rather have him walk away or would you rather have that young this year? And no, I think for this six million Nick's Next Year and have to basically give a draft pick in order to get like a market in type. Is that all worth? It would probably probably I think I mean fad young stunk last year, but he that was a he wasn't terrible after he was worse than the expected from just talking people. Yeah off rally there but gives useful player Off the Bench still in the right situation. You can see the fit with what the Celtics have where if he returns to what he's been in the past like it's not it's not a table. I think he's a player he like he's not going to rock the boat or anything either with the role that he's probably going to be coming off the bench and solve some of those problems. And like I said, if you can roll in something else you probably would have to roll in something else in order to make the network where you're also giving up, you know, okay, we're giving up the 14 to get Market in I'm not wild about but is that something that you'd want to do again? Bench scoring solve some of the problems. I don't know. It's possible and Chicago is a big enough market where and it's close enough to home for Hayward where like I guess it's possible that you could want to go there. But I think that one's more likely to put you to a decision than Minnesota is under those, you know circumstances. Just talking about and they have I mean Chicago's got a new management to and so this is this is like the the other big wild card berth whole offseason is you have all these guys that are at the helm of these franchises that have done nothing for years and they're gonna be ready to make their Mark and it's a very scrambled. Nobody really knows what even like it's hard to plan right now because nobody's exactly sure you have all these multiple, you know, multiple option plans that are out there that all these things have been painting and then it might be like the that the offseason last six weeks and it's like, you know, okay go everybody has to make all their moves and that there's not the sort of time to be deliberative and to see how things shake out and it's like, okay I gotta make sure Negative is now cuz all the free agents may be gone in three days cuz free agency is going to you know has to go real quick. And so there might be interesting different things that become available in that happen. So that sort of similar same mental like and some of these cases you just don't really know how the teams are going to be operating and things that like maybe might not make a ton of sense to you or I there's things that happen every offseason that don't make sense to you know, certain people and sometimes they work out who knows but it's just hard to predict. That's why I was saying at the beginning like I think there might be as many as like literally eighteen teams or something like that that under some circumstance opt-in opt-out and sign-and-trade. I might be that like you can construct some feasible thing for Hayward. That's not just like throw it away right away and say that this is stupid and maybe it's maybe it's something workable there for sure. Cuz you just have a lot of Teams that I think are a you have a lot of teams that can talk themselves into contenting and then on top of that I think you have a lot of teams that are just trying to get in the playoffs in the guy like Hayward it can help that and he's looking for to be the number one or number two option again. A lot of these teams can say hey come here. We can we got that for you right here excited to play with Kobe white cheese guys a finger to and then the point guard and and and then also the only last one I have and this is only obviously if like Ingram goes elsewhere is New Orleans off kind of again, he makes sense there if they don't want to pay not going anywhere engrams not going anywhere. You think he's a hundred percent maximum maximum. Yeah, they're going to just maximum there. I don't know if it completely Means that he wouldn't that like they wouldn't be interested in someone like Hayward. Yeah, but I mean, I've looked at them cuz they're interesting pieces there that don't really fit like they're a timeline but hey, we're doesn't necessarily fit their timeline. Either really write that one is is I think harder even though like I said, I've looked at them in the past cuz I went favors before he was a free agent, you know home at the trade deadline, but he would be an interesting Target. They have no real use for Reddick but he's only got one more year and that doesn't really meet the Celtics needs like Jrue Holiday would be a really interesting player for the Celtics had but like if they were adding Hayward month, it wouldn't make a ton of sense for like, oh we're going to add a thirty-year-old but they were going to trade group. You're not going to get holiday for Hayward. Even if you had a lot of stuff. Yeah. I mean that's it just makes the salaries match in theory, but it just seems like structurally doesn't make sense for the teams doing what you know, what they would be doing. Yeah, I guess the only thing would be like I mean favors on a sign-and-trade with radek if they run to even get enough. I don't think I mean they always going to be like an Emily maybe even like a favors the service may be able to find may be able to sign favors with the tax only. Yeah, it's one of those players like Baines favors a couple of others that are Tristan Thompson that like have been making big money for a long time. There's not a whole lot of money around and like they may legitimately be like, oh you're a good team that's willing to give us a tax Emily for a year or two like yeah, I guess that's what we gotta do favors only like there wasn't even Thirty yet. I don't think Tristan Tristan Thompson somehow 29 as well. So ridiculously young age. They look so old we've been around forever. Maybe I'm wrong about that one. But there's a couple of guys out there that like one of those guys is going to fall through the cracks. So but anyway the point being he's not going to make enough money to be like the return piece to make the math work with the Pelicans. I don't think so. Well if it's a sign-and-trade conceivably, but if you're only going to sign favors for you know, seven eight million dollars That's not enough to you know to swing a Hayward trade. You have to add something else. It'll be okay favors and Reddick which is something that I put forward in the past, right? Can you get favors for two years on a sign-and-trade in Reddick for the one thing and then you get them Hayward like it's possible again. Like I said, there's a ton of team for you can put something together. That's not like crazy. It's just it double sign-and-trades are somewhat it's just another party that has to agree to it, right? All right, that's all I got. That's like my my full line up here and off. I don't know how many I made for the opt-in scenario, which is seem to be more likely. I don't even have any I've got here 15 maybe I mean Houston but it's like that's not what where this is going. So I thought maybe that's that could be what this is all about that he's looking at the situation saying well if I opt in they're going to send me some more so I need to take control and send myself somewhere. Right right. He might come up empty there to be honest. Like he might not get anything that he like the agent might be doing our due diligence here for that reason and might just simply be coming up empty or not with the an offer that long it's going to help thanks in terms of unless he wants to go full like I'm out of here no matter what nuclear and I don't know and who knows if it needs at that point or not. I would be surprised if he was at that point never can tell I suppose we all all were surprised last offseason are not all surprised. You know, we were mildly surprised offices. I think this would be bigger surprise than like surprise Horford was like Philly wouldn't be dumb enough to do that like Cuz they had to let Jimmy go they didn't they had all sorts of like moving chairs there that didn't make sense for them to it. And and guess what it it looks terrible now, so it's like I think there's a lesson option like that this offseason in terms of Here it's market for me. Like I said, it takes one hour maybe in this case to one for less than what actually go but it's not. Like I said, it's not what you want to hear. Celtics perspective that that he's even really strongly considering it and and like we were we were talking before we even started recording about how this is a two-way street and South trade players players have a right to make their decisions to leave the thing to keep in mind if he does opt in and they were leaking out to you know, multiple people that they were looking at different options and he gets traded off. I don't want to hear afterwards like oh, I can't believe you did this to him. He fought back through injury. He's came here signed so he could play for his coach and then you trade him and it's so cold hearted. It's like it's just the way this works but he was he was looking around too. So that's that's all part of the just, you know, part of the life being an NBA player which is why you know, if you make 34 million dollars, I sort of have to live with that I suppose but yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's it makes it easier to look at them all as numbers on a sheet which isn't fair absolutely isn't fair to anybody but when both sides are wage Have their eye out there. Well, I think like we said on that podcast again, right? There's some there's some smoke there. It's not all just idle speculation. It's not like GM's on other teams speculating about stuff just unsettled stuff. It's like seems to be the actual thing that's going on right now and it might not turn it anything. There might not be a fit for like either side and they just, you know head into next season and Thursday we're in you know, and let the cards fall and run it back. But then even if that is the case, you know hayward's trade, you know, that's I had assumed this is a trade if they're going to make it home when they want to make in the offseason that's supposed. They're they've been very much against big. Trades at the trade deadline to make big trades. It's hard to trade thirty-four million dollars at the trade deadline is just part of the reality also also with a lot of the traits that we're looking at, you know, a possibilities if we're he to opt-in Some of its with teens you sort of think have false hope right and so who knows what's going to happen with this season? It's such a weird season that maybe some of these teams do have real Hope just the you know, shuffling the north normalcy of season. Maybe the Bulls have more hope than we think in a season where you're playing every other day traveling around Regional Bubbles and only playing against your Division and whatever but some of it is like you're making a little bit on like oh Sacrament or Chicago or you know, somebody will talk themselves into the idea that they're better than they are and we'll so we'll make this trade when when they haven't played any games yet. But when they played two thirds of the Season, they'll know better than to make that kind of trade but also it's just hard to move the money. So yeah, I agree they would like to have it resolved in the offseason. But if your options are that Hayward resolves it by forcing your hand or leaving or PO box and then you just sort of have to play it out. Those aren't great situations, but you would prefer to be able to string it out in some Manner and figure it out if you go All right. Well, let's leave it at that. I think we've Dice that watch them just come out they sign an extension the first right before the draft, but not even an opt-out just an object just your signs extension for young players has two additional years that red like some numbers that nobody make doesn't make any sense anybody but he's here for thirty four million next year and like nobody gets what's happening? Yeah. but in the meantime, it does look like we are close to having some figures in place about the cap the launch attacks and then you know what the next month will actually look like Beyond just send me to games so that should be the end of this week or maybe this time next week will be Putting out something else with we can run some numbers on actual stuff, right? That's what it's looking like. They want to have it done by the end of the month. So they'll be this weekend if it gets out earlier than that great, but should be soon. We have no idea also dates dates would be nice. Everybody smoked all the numbers really nice to like know when when hayward's option date is don't even know that so we were going to be a fast going to come fast and furious from November 18th to draft until Training camp in less than two weeks after that which is kind of nuts. But I guess they they did that to a degree without the draft and they'll walk out of 2011. So yeah, we'll be here at the winning players suggest take you guys through it. Let us know how much you love your hate. Our trades hit up Ryan at danger cart. I'm not tell me how much you loved or hated life easier to get him. That's at danger karte. He really wants to hear from you at winning plays pod are Twitter's and yeah, but feedback welcomed with the lawyer stuff you guys want to Here I was talked about in the coming weeks. Definitely. Let us know as we continue to grander way through the off season and will have hopefully have some fun draft stuff for you guys next as well. So stay tuned for that.

Celtics Gordon Hayward Hayward Hayward Atlanta Al Horford Minnesota Sacramento Boston Miami Trae Young NBA Gary Harris Knicks Ryan Hayward Emily Phoenix Orlando
HOUR 1: Load Management; Hassan Whiteside's impact on Portland

Big Time Basketball

30:35 min | 1 year ago

HOUR 1: Load Management; Hassan Whiteside's impact on Portland

"Yo. What did you may be in the words of Kawhi Leonard? Hell Bay fourth quarter. Last night. He certainly was well rested as coach. Terry Stotts mentioned after the game clippers. Get A win and quite obviously didn't play the night before against the box. Plays against the Blazers and the clippers. Get an impressive passive win against the UH struggling blazers team will get into that a little bit later this is gallison. The radio DOT COM sports digital networks. Gal still hanging out in Charlotte after the homecoming homecoming of Kemba Walker. Last night. We'll make sure to get into that a little bit as well. porzingus is playing the Knicks for the first time since his trade. I want to kind of revisit that ask Alan See. Where were you stood on the trade and where you stand out of now obviously? It looks terrible in hindsight but he did admit that he didn't want to be traded for the first time that he did actually request a trade away from the Knicks six. We'll get into that the Celtics speaking of what you were last night. The Celtics look good. Man I'm telling you this we you guys you and Rick Euchre. Were kind of giving me some crap about whether or not Gordon Hayward was all the way back and I tell you like. He looks like He. LOOKS LIKE UTAH. Jazz Gordon Hayward again and we gotta get into this we gotta get into this. Is John whiteside stuff. We were just talking before the show Barclay and shack ripped him on. TNT last night on inside the NBA. Our guys back in Philly were saying and do I blame you. I blame us on whiteside for the struggles of the Blazers. I don't blame him specifically like this is who he is John. Whiteside is scouts will have to play that audio a a little bit later but first and foremost what's going on. How was the? How was the homecoming last night? How's your night in Charlotte? What's up what did you say to start to show the Is that something quite Leonard. Saying you don't know what to do baby what it. Yeah what do baby remember. uh-huh that's like that's like that's like signature phrase that and the. Hey Hey hey when. He took the Mike and Introducing himself to the to the clippers crowd but know what to do. Baby was the was. I I forget one that was was that the parade. I think it was the parade for the Raptors. Yeah that's like his 'cause he's quite an awkward guy is as a very private person he doesn't he will get into the load management stuff and Doc rivers getting fined as well but doesn't want his medical history being out there he doesn't want his personal stuff out there he doesn't want people really get into that he he he. He's not going to open up his door and show you know the world who he is. He's a very private person. We saw that with the spurs stuff. But he's had a cup between his laugh his awkward chuckle along with the Raptors between between what do baby and between. Hey Hey hey. He's he's given like he's given twitter and instagram. And whatever some of the most like memorable and giftable moments wins in the history of the NBA Scout. The LAP was so legendary. They was on that Terminator Commercial Adult. That was hilarious. It was great. He's like a robot he's not even a real person that's why he's like a robot he played like a Cyborg he does play like a cyber warrior. He missed a missed opportunity there. There's a missed opportunity. His nickname was declawed. Should be the terminator it should be. You know it it should be. I'll be back. I'm the terminator like there there. There's a marketing opportunity in there somewhere for him. Although I do. Have you watched that commercial. He's got like a red eye. It's it's like the Terminator Great and then on Jordsaid during the commercial. He was like Arnold Schwarzenegger right next funny anyways marketable night last night in Charlotte Hornets really good job of of like the whole emphasis on Kimber Walker. And what he meant to the team to die hugged ten thousand people yesterday and he still had to go and play basketball game and so so I think for Kemp Sake. I'm glad to sings behind him. But it's like when you're in the NBA. You're into eighty two. You're just going one game to another but when do things like this really throw you off. And I thought he was really thrown off in the First Avenue is Oh for six from the field third. Quarter Guy Calling Celtics Scott big and Brad. I just basically arrested everybody for the fourth quarter but it was. It was unlike any return. I've ever been part of you know most of the time you see a return. It's there's a little bit of negative towards the guy at the one that was similar. Was Paul Peirce in kindergarten yet. Coming Back to Boston there were no boos there. We're on the very celebrated but but it wasn't the love best wasn't as much because like those guys WanNa Championship of the city versus Kemba was just the psyche. Tried his best. They just weren't good enough so So many people here really excited about Kemba getting opportunity to they and they play for a championship paper. You go to the playoffs and make a deep run so very interesting knives. It's unlike anything I've been apart of. Yeah I mean that Celtics team name. Would we'll talk about it a little bit I mean the. They're so well balanced. Seems like between the four guys of Kemba between Gordon Hayward who seems like I said back now to his his normal self between tatum and between a Jalen Browley. They've got guys. I think three of them are averaging over twenty points a game and Jaylen Brown can be up there around fifteen like they're they're they're just throw so many guys they throw somebody wings at you guys. That can score and get their own and kind of do their own thing. It's actually really impressive. And I I WANNA get into a little bit later. You know if you know one of one of the guys that one of the guys are really like NBA. Writer for the ringers. Kevin O'Connor still riding in tweeting about last night that they're still sort of one. Step away their one piece away from really being a title. Contender enter always contending in the east and beating. Maybe Milwaukee or Milwaukee are are the sixers but I do think that is true. But they've scout. The Celtics have been really really impressive to start this season. And I know you guys are saying that Gordon Hayward is back which I'll tell you if he's back when he's like the focal point of other teams uh-huh defensive game plans but right now they're still ignoring him and he is masterful off the ball right now cutting to the basket going back door your using the Iverson cut the loop cuts to to get going downhill. The guys who were guarding him. Sometimes it third best defender on the floor and he is absolutely uncooking that guy plus the fact which is good for the Celtics you know the Celtics going into that game going into the last. Three Games have had the worst offensive rating in the first first half in the NBA and the best offensive rating in the second half in the NBA. So Gordon Hayward like basically giving the game when it needs right is I'm I'm GONNA be aggressive. I'm GonNa get myself going into first quarter. That's going to help our team. Those numbers are starting to climb in their first half offense rating in a lot of it has to do with Gordon. Gordon Hayward aggressiveness. Early on well I. This is the tweet from Kevin O'Connor saying I WANNA get to this we're going to have tantric perkins coming on a little bit later as as well Basically saying the Celtics are one move away from being at the same level as the bucks in the sectors. Do you believe that you believe that's true and like who are like. Who can they bring in? Who would who can they dangle angle out there who would you be willing to trade to bring in maybe a front court guy because I do think that that his I think Kevin is right? Nobody I'm not dangling any of I'm not dangling any of these four players out there so I don't WanNa give up Marcus smart. I would never I would never ever ever trade marcus smart because it was like come back backed by you for sure so they that's Fi- guys now you're starting to deal with like a bunch of guys who make little money and you treat an asset. You do have to match up salaries here. You can't absorb the Celtics. Don't have cap space absorb you a big time player and then you start looking at I mean to be honest with you. This is the truth if Air Baines is on this team I'm not kidding I. I'm not I'm laughing. I'm laughing but I think you're right. I airbase has been so incredibly. Impressive is the season I mean. Everyone talks about Devon Booker and Ricky Rubio there but I think we talk about this couple of days ago like this idea that one eight and goes out and Baynes goes into the starting lineup. Like they've been great like he's been the perfect thing like tone setter toughness attitude. Whatever that he's brought to that centime desperately needed? I'm I'm laughing because I think it's true Bruce Gallic if they had if they still had Aaron Baynes on this Celtics Team I think they'd be a completely different team. I think not a completely different team but I think that they would be able to ramp it up to another level in the conversation. You're in the conversation but the issue is it's impossible to find versatile base at five million bucks and Baynes is more versatile than people understand outstanding. People look at him like an ogre or something like that. He's not like that at all. He's like offensively skilled. He knows how to pass. He's been playing. I think that really helped him playing last year. And I think the Celtics big man right now Daniel ties. He played last year for Germany in the World Cup. I think has helped him to so I do believe that You need like versatility and it's right now. It's really difficult for them to get a big. WHO's worth the money and if there was a big that ah that made five million bucks is better than what they currently have been? The team wouldn't wanNA give those guys up so I don't think there's a guy like I I'm GonNa say this with all due respect to Kevin Love. If we traded Gordon Hayward for Kevin Love Right now I don't I don't think that The Celtics would be better I actually think it might take a step backwards. I think in fact that having four versatile aides or four three versatile wings with Campbell Out there makes him impossible to guard on on ignited a night out that take away philly. Take Away Milwaukee. Maybe so you can even take away Toronto. A bunch of versatile players I can defend as well but most teams out. There just don't have like three guys can play okay on the floor versatile wings and can defend clippers would be another one. It's not just they're just not that many teams that are built like that I I think you're right. I mean so do you. You think than like the core four of Kemba of Jaylen Brown of Jason Tatum and Gordon Hayward like if you're Danny Ainge your your your you're you're riding your dying with those four like you're not dangling those guys to try to add a piece. That is your core Jonathan Isaac. I will do. You're talking. I think I would do it. For Isaac boots or something like that but I would have to get a big and also get a week I was I wouldn't do it. I would do wing for big if I could get to guy. Maybe maybe maybe Gordon and Isaac or something like that for Gordon Hayward but the way Orlando would do that. No Way Way Orlando with do that. Yeah so like I. I'm I'm looking at it like if you start to look around the NBA. I would be interested in John Collins they also had Kevin hurt or something like that right so there are some but you really look like it would make no sense for Atlanta to take on Gordon. He works thirty million dollars to give up two young pieces on rookie scale deals when they have like ridiculous cap space moving forward there believes they can kaminsky complaint with trae young and we had this young group and you could signed free agent. Signing Gordon Hayward would be counterintuitive to what they WANNA do plus. Plus the fact that Gordon Hayward can opt out at the end of the season and you don't know what he would do he might not want to resign there so when you start to really connect the pieces. It's damned air possible to make Acre trade. I'll ask Kendrick Perkins coming up in about fifteen minutes about this as well and ask him if he thinks. The Celtics are kind of in that next with Philly and Milwaukee Before we move on because we do we do have to get to this Assan whiteside stuff with the. TNT was awesome but you actually you actually alluded to something. That I kinda wanted to ask. You is the idea that Gordon Hayward could opt out. Do you think because of how well he's played so far that he may think about that like he averaging near his near what basically his averages were when he was in his last year in Utah. He's looked really good. Do you think it's a possibility. He opts out after this year. Of course it's always a possibility ability. I you know. I think he's thirty one million or something like that option. So you know it's all about like what another team would be willing to pay. It's all about how what you know. What maybe he wants to be a part of that? Twenty twenty one free agent class because there is a trickle down effect to everyone clearing cap space. Jason now low. You know like the Consolation Prize is Gordon Hayward which isn't a bad thing for some teams so there's a lot of strategies but is there an option. COULD HE OUGHTA opt out and be like a top dog free agent. Yeah the Celtics on resign him absolutely the Celtics thing. Would I think we got three versatile wings and good luck matching she got to them. That's what they think but at the end of the day if there are about a raising batters I I think if you destroy ask Danny Ainge you think this is a championship caliber team. I think he would say no. Yeah so I will talk about this for Kendrick Perkins coming up in about fifteen minutes. As I mentioned but scout we have after get to. We have to get to whiteside stuff last night. Because it's you know I just feel like it's one of those things where he one of the guys behind behind the scenes before the show. Ask me like do I blame it on whiteside for like the plays or struggles and we've talked about it on the show like the we're both a little bit nervous about the blazers this season I think like I look at it and I'll go a little a little bit later scowl. I do want to do sort of panic meter thing with you. So maybe in the last half hour of the show I want to go through some of the teams that are struggling. And you tell me like what they're panicked meter would be one through ten of that I've got about about sixteen and the blazers are one of them. Don't give away your answer just yet but I think we are. We're both worried about them. We're both worried about PLOP prospect away. My so really how you tell me not to give my answer away and now you just leave my extra wedge. We are worried we were worried about them. Before the first game of the season Cerruti. Oh No no no no no I remember bringing this up to us scout I was like hey man I'm kind of. I'm kind of nervous about the Blazin yet. Now now they'll be they'll be they'll be fine and I was like I. I Love Game I love. Cj But. I just don't know like I promise. I don't trust anybody else on that blazers roster so don't give me like you. You can be a three out of ten worried or eat out of ten. I don't know where we are in between those two things. I will always be skeptical of team with Assam Y eyesight on it. Always aim warriors last year at whiteside. Work out yet I miss. I'm always skeptical so for for exactly the reasons that you see last night like it is basketball. You have to play hard and give effort right are we are we. Are we clear by doing that. He claimed that you know he if he did wanted the second half. Look like that in the first half look like he did do for two points in the first half the guys rhapsody Rosie and what's play the audio here first and then we'll play whiteside spa up. So here's shack last night inside the NBA. Talking about whiteside. Maybe on it was pretty good. Promise it's worth the way it I mean essentially like those guys love to cloud on people and I think sometimes the shop was not not clowning on. He was keeping it real best not cloudy. He wasn't clowning. They are cloudy on his shack. Knock clowning rounding US shacks got. Yeah like whiteside on one hundred percent with you on scale. He's one of those guys. Where like if he's on your team I I I just I? It's especially if he's playing big minutes like I just don't trust you I really don't I don't trust the the problem with the blazers are like I said I love him. I love CJ but after that they've lost all of these all of the guys that basically contributed to some of their run last year. Whether it's nurtures through an injury at Zach through injury it's Mojo workless like Rodney. It's okay but it's not a guy that I necessarily want to trust and big minutes and stuff like that and whiteside. He got paid in Miami off of what was a decent stretch is there. They maxed him out and then they immediately regretted it. And I feel like you know this is a contract year for John Whiteside. This is a year and that this is the guy. TNT We're sort of pointing out. This is a guy who you know. He has skills but the effort is a question and he was almost saying like. Oh of course I'm putting an effort like I'm averaging a double double. How can you get a double double in the NBA without actually Shalita trying and putting good effort in? And I you know because I think at some point like there are stats. You're just going to get like he's seven foot whatever he's getting most of the minutes as a bake for them he's GonNa put up whatever numbers he puts up but are they. Effective numbers are their numbers. That impact winning things that you always talk about scallon so just the fact that he's that he has a double double to me doesn't mean that he's necessarily putting thing in the necessary effort or is contributing to the blazers actually being good wing games. You played hard in the second happiest today if you watch that game. It's like you're you're out. They're not interested in playing and then I don't know I love to find out who talked to him at halftime. I don't know if like I don't know how this whole thing works like does Z.. Check his phone and his boys like shacks killing you or is he like Daimler Light. I duNNO BOSTON. Arap rapid locker room destroying light side and his effort. He's just like Freestyles Tara. A wrap that makes us on White's pick it up. I don't I don't know what happened but somebody I said something in an information got to Assan lakeside at halftime. Whether it's Terry Stotts say that's some bullshit you can't do that or tame or his boys are where somebody talk those online side and he flipped a switch and he played hard. But that's like yeah like doing that makes me. You wonder if you're in a contract year you're on nationally. You're playing a nationally. Televised game against your guys are struggling so these you're all I think about what I'm adding up here. You're nasty you're national television. You're struggling you're playing against arguably the best team in the western conference difference and you're going against zoo botch where they put their money towards Wayne so I can. I like too much. But I'm sure Hassan whiteside thinks his world that he's much better than much so he's like I got cooked. This dude I gotta show the world when I'm Abou- were struggling right. Now I already see Damian Lillard looking at me sideways so I I got approved him dead I can perform on stage so those things are not motivating factors actors for Hassan whiteside in the first half motivating factors for him are oh man trout shack killing me on our. You're on my as Dame Lillard POPs off a rap at halftime destroy me whatever whatever happened. That's his motivating factor. which to me need? I always say this man. I've been around a lot of NBA players when you're externally motivated. The really not. I can't in my experience experienced those guys you you're number one you shouldn't be your number one right motivating back re players are are internally motivated just to ice is to prove the world at all right so I think we do have the shack audio here. So let's go ahead and play Jack Anti last night because this contract year Bolo play Klay with effort. Play why this is contract year. I'll be sticking up for Molotov Ryobi that have these arguments but tonight he's playing with no effort if at least my contract here and I had two hundred fifty three hundred million which you're going to get the ball out on the biggest on the floor playing with uh-huh shooting a fadeaway jump Hook right here. Don't block the shot you let a do it hit you with a George Mike and move kissing with the Jewish people right here Damon. Who can you up do you what do you do? You travel at play wise. I gotTA pick it up if he tried to get new money because last time he played on the contract. Yeah that's close. Before he was planning the country you had a great year. You got a lot of money and chuck seems to think it was. You got the money you know really planning. I don't I don't feel that way. He would like to see more effort of Sawa. Yeah I mean again I think all points that are fair from shacks and you said it perfectly scowl I just don't trust teams at Assan. whiteside plays a big big minutes out. I think that's as simple as that. He's like listen if he's starting center for the Celtics would be like I'm I'm not I'm not kidding. I think Daniel better than some eyesight because he plays heart and he plays hard every time. He's out there I just. I can't roll if you're a big man and I've said it many times on this show. It's not how it used to be like Shaq. Could stand in the pay back in the day defensively like okay. Well he's GonNa give you what he's GonNa give you offensively offensively. It's GONNA kind of rest in a rebound nowadays. You GotTa make multiple efforts on the defensive and you gotta fly around you gotta be up. Guarding incur fly back. Then a block out rebound. You've got to run the floor. You gotta sit at drag screen playing that way you're worthless in the NBA. Right now and I'm always I'm I'm I'm hesitant. I killed white power now and give him credit to do is play hard. You want to be a big in this league. You know who else is not playing hard. You Andre Georgia. George is not playing hard. It's hard you play hard if your big name to sleep. You can't just coast anymore yet. The Lakers I mean the blazers should've went out and got Dwight Howard. Think think about how different it would be. I mean obviously we didn't. We didn't know that Dwight would be the way he's playing right now. And who knows. Maybe he wouldn't necessarily be that. Maybe he needed Lebron. And so that Lakers system and whatever they have they are to sort of buy in. But if I if the the blazers made this traitorous on whiteside they gave up They've Meyers Leonard who was like a nice piece and a guy that they had to get Hassan on whiteside if they had just signed Dwight Howard off the street like they might be in a completely different situation. We might be thinking very differently about this blazer team right now because the way that what Howard is playing with the Lakers. This is almost exactly what the blazers need. Cj Dame need help dame dame is a bona fide killer he is maybe the best pick and roll guy in the entire league. He you know is unbelievable shooter. He does everything is Zero Question About Daimler and if the Blazers struggled this year I'm not putting it on lured not dame's Paul because I look at this and I go he in that Western conference like you. I need help like some of it is unfortunate circumstances. Obviously I've mentioned before they lost two of their most important big but this isn't this isn't a daimler. CJ mccollum problem. This is a Neil O'Shea bringing Assan whiteside. Let's listen to white this whiteside defending himself after the game our In the in the locker room aspect this thank kilgore in a row. Donald show anything positive shock ever again Charles Barkley on pretty much go along with it so but you know obviously tells us this who have not had a bad first half you know I got really sows had two turnovers might have what six rebounds so I I have not perfect. I had a really good. I have really bad second-half I just happened to be your second half tall but You yeah no we lost. That can shock Doug Snack at halftime. Asked me two questions show. Hey did you guys get. Did you hear shop at Halftime Barkley. Yeah you see me. The way I play in the first half I picked up too early. Thousands getting beat by zoo. Botch I gotta be better and I gotta own own. That and in the second half played better. But that's not good enough for what we're trying to do. We're trying to be as close to a forty eight minute players. I possibly can so I gotta go watch the film. I gotta check myself that hard. Why is that difficult to do? What person would would be there and think? Wait a minute you just say that. You're not good enough. No that's not. That's not what I said that I got to be better like. We're trying to do big things here. I got I'm out here was a seat. mecom Daimler they need help. I gotta be better than they probably hit here to do job and I got to do a better job in the first first half the second half at least I played better in the second half. But that's not good enough not at this level. Not Against the clippers. Who might be the best team in the western conference but how difficult difficult is that to do? I mean scale. This goes back to the conversation. We've had multiple times on this show including yesterday. You are a different breed of athlete of NBA Gay player or some guys some guys even if he's thirty and this is this is at this point. who was on whiteside is but it is hard for some guys to take personal responsibility? Sometimes like I understand that like you. I think you have to understand that like you. You come from this thing where like you are. Open to criticism you. You're fine with that you. They have different motivating factors. That aren't necessarily people. You know saying that you suck. And that's GonNa all of a sudden make you play better in the second half for a Lotta guys. I think in the League they. That's the that that motivates them. I mean that's not that's not necessarily a good thing in a Sawa seems to be one of those guys so again. This comes back to scale. You are in the minority man. You are in the minority here right. So on Sunday mornings I wake up I played pick up basketball. My motivating factor right off. The top right is I'm going to win as many games as I possibly. Can Dan drops down like eventually. It gets to like my performance and that's who I am in personnel. So let's let's let's start with the song whiteside nightside. It's nasty televised games against the clippers. You know it's like they're struggling right now. Can we admit it. The Blazers are underachieving to assert losing. Whatever Okay Hassan? Whiteside motivating factor. That night is what what he's driving the ship the first thing on his list where you think it is. I don't know I honestly don't know its galaxy. It didn't look like it didn't look like he cared about you know helping out. Dj A. C.. J. Dame it didn't look like that at all it didn't look like he cared that he was playing potentially the Best S. team in the NBA. It didn't look like he cared that he's in a contract year so I have no idea like I don't know there's all these. There's all these things that he should be motivated by that. He just isn't motivated. You buy so I have no idea. I don't people have no amazing because the acting like on the NBA va to former NBA player. You're explaining to me how these players think so it. Everything in life driven by purpose like listen purpose. Chris could adjust throughout the time right like my purpose. One time be like man I just want to get it in there and play and then I play now. Mike Nice to make three shots. I like my purpose is changing all the time for everyone motivated by purpose when people aren't motivated by the purpose of what they're like the purpose Chris Powder for no no way no way. I didn't change my purpose. He wants to win that game arrack he not worried about legacy. You want to beat the Clippers Yup one hundred percent yes but again. That's what makes great. That's why dame is one of the best certainly but he's short leader and in my experience just being around dudes like that. Make Me WanNa be like that. I wasn't like this all the time. I was like watching Jason Kidd early on this do cares about winning. Then I'm like okay. This is what it's about. I gotTa Walker Him because he's ready to win this game. Then I see guard that I see. Here's then I see Derek Road See if everyone on the same page in in your top. It's really why he played so well that year contract you're because D Wayne was there and he was driving song whiteside. That's that's what I was going to get to is that I think there should have been an immediate red flag for anyone that was potentially looking to trade for us on whiteside that if Miami the Miami Heat if it didn't work out there they had questions about his attitude and character and he's bitching about touches and all this stuff stuff that doesn't affect winning whatsoever if the Miami Heat who as we say are one of the best run organizations Shins and get the most out of guys in the NBA. If they if they couldn't wait to get off of his contract they couldn't wait to get off his contract for two years or three years now as soon as they almost resigned him they wanted to get that should be the ultimate ultimate red flag to any team that was interested in going and going out and getting us on whiteside. Is that if we're going to get them to our environment and our environment isn't isn't necessarily what the Miami Heat Environment is. He's probably so. What is his motivation going to be? If he's not motivated in Miami where guys have career years and do their best even if DJ and CJ Damar such great leaders. which I think they can be and maybe we are and even if I think the blazers are a good organization which I think they are with Neil? O'Shea running the ship. That is a massive red flag. Say Hey wants. This guy gets into arguments as our organization. How are we going to know what his motivation is? How are we going to that? He cares night in and out night out and maybe it was because they thought he'd be playing for a contract and he is still playing for a contract but he hasn't shown that this year and that has been I mean. I guess nobody should be surprised. We shouldn't be surprised about this at all scouts. Let's let's do this. Let's take a quick break because we gotta ask Kendrick Perkins NBA Champion one of our main guys here on the show on Scallon Pals. We'll ask him about Assan. WHITESIDE got a bunch of other questions for him including load management. We know that he is not a load management guy whatsoever. I WANNA ask him. How good looking in the fourth quarter last night in the fourth fourth quarter throughout the entire season and how much load management has played into that? I WanNa get

NBA Celtics Blazers Hassan whiteside Gordon Hayward John Whiteside whiteside clippers Kendrick Perkins basketball Kemba TNT Gordon Hayward George Mike Miami Terry Stotts Utah Raptors Gordon
Kemba Walker Injury Update | Gordon Hayward Latest

The Garden Report | Boston Celtics Post Game Show from TD Garden

43:50 min | Last week

Kemba Walker Injury Update | Gordon Hayward Latest

"Emergency addition to the Garden report emergency ambulance coming. That's yeah exactly. Send the ambulance. Someone come get Kemba and make this all go away while you're at it pick me up. Right? Let's let's get into a real quick. We're just here. This was kind of impromptu, but just to catch everybody where you're where we're at. And again, this is Jimmy Toscano Bobby Manning and so are developing situation involves one Kemba Walker who off earlier today Brad Stevens was on a podcast on Ceylon as media network with Jeff Goodman and Bob Ryan the the Ryan Goodman podcast and he was our guest and just kind of Jeff was just asking. Hey, you know, Kemba wasn't didn't look great the end of last year, you know what this status and again Bobbie your you wrote about this today on sale has media on a Boston Sports Journal Danny Ainge alluded to it. It wasn't home. Shock. However, the just I'm going to plan for you guys. Listen to Stevens talk and then just make your own interpretation on what you think here. This sounded like he was and I'll give you my take a bath to it again. I'm going to play the sound bite. Okay, here we go. Yeah, he's going to I mean, he's he's working exceptionally hard on just continuing the key to this whole thing with him is just strengthen the knee and so just continuing to take this opportunity when we're not playing when we're not practicing to really focus on that very similar to what we did at the beginning of the bubble. I think that there will be a transition like that because of the short because of the shortened season the shortened off-season, you know, I don't expect you know, it'll be some time before he's going full speed for us for sure. Meaning that he might miss he might miss the beginning of the Season breath. We'll see how that all goes. We haven't settled on any timelines. This is more of a like plan appropriately thing so that he can plug and play uninhibited as he moves forward a lot like the bubble again the bubble. Okay, we have upset Jimmy Toscana. You scared Jimmy any better the tenth time you hear this is a disaster because of the fact that you haven't for three more years and that's what ain't said back in a presser. We're trying to get them right for three years. If you can't get them right for the First full year. It's probably not looking good for the full four years and you're talking about a player option at the end too. Yeah, I will say for this season though. I have a tiny bit of optimism out of this because of course you do because they managed it. Well in the bubble, he came back roaring through the eight game stretch. They had to send him a few times and they made it work now the postseason as it got along as you're doing that every other night thing it was tough. So what do you look at here last year you are a team with four guys at the top who bought all the scoring load. I think it was like seventy 6% of the points came from the top floor. Now all of a sudden you're taking two of those guys in Hayward and Kemba out on many nights. How do you pick that up is Jeff Teague enough wage? Coming off the bench. I don't think so. You're on the wing scoring behind the SARS. They're not to mention. You're putting more of a ball handling pressure on more Marcus Smart shots. That's what you get more Market smoke more Jayson Tatum ball-handling more Jaylen Brown ball handling. So you're putting three guys in the tough position there. Jimmy yeah, so it's hard to spend this any any positive way. Obviously my hope is that there's going to be a lot of NBA teams that are going to be coming out very slow out of the game. It's especially some of the teams that did go relatively deep into the bubble. So I'm not sure if the Celtics are going to be the only one that are you know, bringing some of their guys in a slightly arresting guys on off nights. I don't think the NBA has any grounds to come at teams for giving guys, you know nights off. I don't think that they'll even consider that this season based on the the quick walk around here. But yeah, I mean, it's tough to hear Brad talk about Kemba Walker like he's going to be in a walker like half the season I mean you really don't want to hear that type of talk about a month before things really ramp up here. So wasn't pump to hear that and then you hear the reports that whether you believe it or not that Danny Ainge tried to trade Kemba Walker, you know called a bunch of teams of okay. Gir and clearly didn't get anywhere. There was the first that was the first red flag and the guy you told I mean, look, I don't want to play the yes you do. I'm not looking for the win. But as soon as that thought came out I told you I want I want out of all my camera shares. I want out eat that W. Well, I'm just saying I'm reading the tea leaves. I'm not saying I don't like him as a player. I loved the signing at the beginning of last year, but you're just you're putting everything together here the maintenance. Getting them together the thing that scared me the most often as having a small knee issue find during the season taking four months off and still having that knee issue after we were told that oh God. That sucks. Kemba Walker's first soundbite up to us to the media right after the right after he was came back. Was that that four months did me so great. I loved It was it's just what my knee needed and then a week later. It's okay. Ken was experiencing soreness. Again. They're going to be downplaying this happening like every time and I was like no no no, no, no. No, I've seen this movie before, you know, this is how it goes and you are just worried about long-term and these are the things that you say when you're like, yeah, I don't freaking know, you know, if we say over the summer, we're like, oh we know how this goes with the Boston Celtics, right? So this is something that's going to be with him for the next three seasons. And that's another hit this isn't going to get any better than this goes back to knee surgery. She had in Charlotte you have to question maybe the Hornets when they had the chance to keep them said this knee is not right like we know from the Celtics do so just let them go with different A desperate situation where free agent want to come. What is they do it? What is what do you tell you that though? Bobby think of that? So then the narrative the past few days has been what's Charlotte doing? Why wage? Pig garden all this money at this age with his injury history and not have a simple question. What I'm saying is why would they do this and not have paid Kemba the year before? Well, maybe you change your answer here is they didn't think that Kemba was worth four years worth of whatever was that? They were going to get off of that. It's got it's telling that they would feel more comfortable one year later with four years of Gordon Hayward giving his injury history. Then Kemba Walker that you can't you can't justify that signing yet. I still will not justify wage. No, it's two separate things. It feels like Charlotte could be making the same mistake now that they could have made before. So whether they are they aren't whether they are they aren't again at the end of the day the the telling things off the injury during that gap of time that where he we arrested during a during the quarantine situation came back had to manage and the fact that again we're entering a management situation. Should the beginning of a year granted it's a it's a turnaround but I don't know the three four months off would change at a ton. It just feels like this is something that's going to have to be managed for the rest of his career which means dead likely, you know, some sort of arthritic or degenerative condition or something. That's just going to linger and not go away. So again, you have good days you have bad days, but it doesn't these things don't get better and that's really that's you know, I'm not when your garlic Campbell your style of play is, you know, you're quick your faster Shifty you're getting in and out of the lanes, you know, your your these ridiculous shots, you use your knees, you know, not saying other positions don't but he's the type of guy that needs to be feeling good because that's his Worth to the team, right? It is is his shifting as his quickness boxes spin move whatever it is. So if it's something that he's thinking about her if it's something that he can only go 80% Well now you're now you you if you're going 80% you're just another point guard in the NBA because bath 20% is a difference between Kemba Walker and write these guys and they need him now more than ever Jimmy to take a right. It's like when you're one of four, you can kind of jobs don't have nights where you can hide a little bit or not. Not not be your best. But now he's one of three who have to carry a tremendous offensive burden with really nothing behind them. So Kemba Walker just kind of drifting into the shadows and becoming not a role player but not a dynamic Superstar anything less than All-Star level is way short of what you need of Kemba Walker. Maybe you don't notice that you had but was there a guard around the Celtics first pick this year that they if they were really worried about Kemba and thought I know they went with with Peyton Pritchard and bought a second but in the first round went maybe if they were concerned long-term would they have considered you know? Yeah, they they they they were sandwiched between two point guards Kira Lewis at thirteen and Cole Anthony of fifteen years. So on each side there you had a chance to take a guy I still like going with naysmith because of all the reasons we talked about I do too. I'm just saying like if they're concerned about not having camber for you know, yeah he games and not even started here. Maybe you maybe that tells you maybe they're not as concerned as as we are. Maybe it's still causing the question where they see themselves because we get news in the last few days to change was wage going to go as high as a hundred million keep a right now. I want to get to that in a minute who knows how truthful that was might just be talking after the fact but if you're going forward with him, but now and we we had the rumors there to you were willing to go forward with Hayward here. Were you all in on the situation here and if that's the case why not last year when you had camber going at the All-Star level you had some concerns about trade deadline at February when the started why didn't you load up go all-in last year like it looked like that year was going to be at that point to go badges. Nobody loads birth. For a year, you just don't do it. Nobody does that it's not a real thing. You know how people nobody woke up for a year, but they do anything. Well, I think it's come into clearer Focus here based on what you just said. I think the the you know, if we flew all that much more important now, but if we're slow at all together it can but being rumored in this Giroux holiday situation and the initial of reaction from Faith Jimmy and a bunch of other people was Giroux freaking holiday, you know, like for Kemba that's crazy. But like it seems to feel like they were trying to move off of Kemba even if a jaroo or to have that salary in place to just get that off the books and then either sign it either sign Hayward or trade Hayward. This is what we've kind of learned in these in these in this week or two. They might have been ready to bring forth with Hayward and not Kemba between now and and they ended up in the other situation where they're stuck with Kemba and they lost Hayward, but they may have not been able to maybe maybe Kemba. I mean maybe he doesn't pass is dead. Anywhere, he wouldn't pass a physical in a tree he knows right because question too because you're the Celtics and you're and you're worried about Kemba like it sounds like they might be you're going to give away a little bit more than a flip him for a Jew. Yeah. That's how it goes. You giving away a little more to make the other team except to like that Isaiah situation that deal almost didn't get done because of his health they're so they're stuck they going to make this work. The only thing I'll say that the mystically is that they had a good plan that largely worked last year. He talked about all the shiftiness Jimmy. We saw that against Philadelphia first half of that Toronto series strength and then you get into the later stages of that one. I wrote down a little bit bounce back with some twenty pointers against Miami, so it's not like he's I mean, they're not I think the numbers were deceptive. I think he was off most I think he was I think he was Kemble light off at his best last last year loan returned Upon returning. I don't think we ever saw that guy who could take over a game as he did a few times during the year never saw the November production. Yep. When we can just a production it wasn't the get out of my effing way getting getting to his spot and knocking down those shots when he get on those streaks and be like wow, that's what you get them before and I thought maybe that guy's done. He wasn't moving like that way too soon to say that he's gone. I mean, I think I said one. So opening at like a really nice he had a couple good ones against I mean it was a hit or miss and that's probably how it's going to be down. Obviously, we all know he didn't look the way that we took the regular season and we said that right now I think Sean I think what you said is you'd be more concerned about Kemba Walker if he wasn't hurt and if he was hurt. That ring a bell. Yes, what we did such a library somewhere know I mean saying if that's who he is. This guy's not great right now. That's what I was saying when we were watching him last the last in the postseason. He just didn't he just he just couldn't do what he would know what he was used to doing. So he has to be right and look. When when when when Jeff asked Brad about it the sound bite that we played earlier in a pod. I didn't play the front of it. But what Jeff asked him outright was basically like so I've watched him play for I've watched kembo play since College. He clearly wasn't right at the end of last year and Brad. He said yeah, huh. That's what Danny said too. When not at all dispel that and he was like, yeah, you know, it's all about strengthening the thing you're talking about stuff. You know, that's like, you know, I really like we gotta we gotta do the best we can to keep this thing going. I mean, you know, just some of the quotes here and Bobby you wrote the story, you know, just you know, it's the bulb Was unique four months off different changes ramping up, you know, that's a good point too. He Distinctions and they're the if we go back to July. He basically showed up at our back Center. They had no clue as going on it sounded like and all of a sudden that needs to start firing up. So who knows what she was doing there in those four months, who knows? What kind of regimen he was on it was clear him and Grant were working out together in Charlotte. So there was probably some work being done. There may be more work than needed to be done. The point is now he's going to be in Boston this weekend. She is strengthening the knee. Yeah, they have a month to work on that stuff similar to what it was at the bubble. He shows up he tries to do basketball at home. It's you know, like it's I mean, this is this is my point don't you think they manage it fairly well in the bubble and now the conditions are even more ideal than manage it Somebody's gotta play. He's got a place 72 games plus playoff here. And again, I know they're going to manage it but you gotta you gotta really fat. You don't have the benefit of an offseason to do a bunch of different things again people with conditions like this. You do spend some time doing just wage. Away from basketball activities strengthening the areas around the knee too. So it can withstand a little bit more cuz you can't do that kind of stuff during the season. There's too many riggers, you know, and now it's going to be an accelerated timetable to get this thing up and running. I mean you may be looking at no back-to-backs, you know, and you know, possibly up to what twenty to twenty-five out of the 72 games off him. We're just overcome that that's a lot cuz you don't you do not have Personnel to overcome it, you know at all as you said so and that's what makes me question like with some of them maybe like that their free-agent targets or like their draft. I mean, you can't tell me that if Kim is going to miss a third of the Season that they couldn't have used another guard more than we don't know off here the ultimately this is I mean we go back to this every single time. Jayson Tatum's going to have to do a ton like a ginormous world is going to have to be undertaken by him and it feels like he's ready for it. But this is what we talked about the stuff you wanted to you know, you mentioned it earlier Bobby. It means Tatum as the ball in his hands more. And again, there's things if you fill the floor with Shooters, I like that that's not a bad thing necessarily, but if we should have isoball Tatum needs to score 45 to save them every night that's going to be a mess. You know, that's not going to be a great situation is going to be so frustrating, you know, you know what you mentioned earlier thought it might be Marcus Smart who starts to do a little too much more stress to think he needs a little too much you want to see this locker-room get torn apart when Marcus starts taking 22 shots of game. We are concerned about that long shot that that's like a roughly what fifteen shots from camber, you know ten to Fifteen shots. Now, they're going to go elsewhere Jayson Tatum on a good night is already taking that number. I mean how many shots Is he going to end up taking so I mean the the ball will get spread around the well the point there is he's not pulling from guys say kemba's out. You know hayward's gone. He just got these younger. He's not necessarily calling from anywhere now, unless Aaron they Naismith comes out here and starts laying in the Earth on fire next month and he's not pulling from anyone and his production was good enough last year. I saw today. He was one of the ten best spot-up shooters in the NBA last year Marcus Smart that is on Captain shoot threes. Yeah, so it's not he was actually top five almost all year long and catching screen. Shoot three. Yeah. I mean so like the issue in the bubble where you had the chairs find everything else like guys are pulling from each other now, it's a little more Consolidated but you just gotta get some shots for smart Brown Tatum, like that's almost works out a lot of issues we talked about it's just do these guys have the capability to get it done as the ball-handler brown freeing himself and smart, you know continuing that production next year right? Let me go ahead and page. Richards ready to play I mean that may have went into their pick. I mean some people are certain a little bit on that. But I mean we saw, you know, we saw it happen they gave away their their last there last first round picks up to like what? Yeah. Absolutely. I mean we then we debate last week want to make her antique all of a sudden. I'm not like I'm not frontin want to make her any more like Jeff. He's a guy you want there. If Kim was in the spot you're looking at a guy who's like going to try to do Kemba things. It's more of a t Grohl, you know, like that's what he does like help a lot like that that move has a completely different connotation. Now that the Embers out like 50 ft is starting for you on nights. We're Tampa isn't going nobody's talking up a lot. I mean, it just means like you said Bobby that guys are going down a little bit bigger overrules. We haven't even mentioned Jaylen Brown. I mean, he's the guy that everyone saw take a little bit of a leap in the bubble. But then in the playoffs it felt like he was almost just watching a little bit too much so maybe He's a guy that you know steps up here a little bit. I know he's not like a ball-handler like him or anything like that, but he could take some of those shots. He can you know, add on to his game a little bit and you know the exact you know, it's unfortunate that you don't want to have to play your young guys. And I don't I imagine they're going to try to limit their but it's too cuz they don't trying to tire everybody out and games one through twenty. You know what I mean? Like Faith easy if we're just talking about the players on the court here like throw side all the books all the asset management all that stuff you sort of do end up in a spot here that we talked about like making this all about money and brown. He cleared a lot of the other guys out of the way and not not necessarily smart here, but smart gives you value on the other end and it's all about those two at this point. Now the problem is you have a damaged a send-off you got nothing for Hayward yet as as of now probably look to that trade too and see what's going to come back for that. There's a lot of management things that we can still rip Danny for it, but in terms of what's there on the court next year for just thinking about them? They can work with this. Well, let's let's do it. Let's rip Danny a little bit, but first off. I know the two way anyway, so let me let's let's quickly tell people about the sponsor manscaped biggest grooming our friends and manscape here or remind you to take care of your biggest grooming and hygiene needs from head to toe with the all-in-one. Manscape performance package kit. What do you get out of this lawn mower 3.0? That's that's good stuff, right. There are there that's key for the close shave down there weed wacker ear ear and nose hair trimmer also the crop preserver, which is deodorant for down below. You've got foot powder, which is a foot duster. You have manscaped cologne. You have a carry-on bag boxer briefs that keep the whole keep keep your junk together and you get all of that and you get 20% off. That's the best part 20% off and free shipping with the code Garden 20 at manscaped.com once again twenty years. Off and free shipping with the code Garden 20 at manscaped.com. So let's get into it briefly guys. Okay. So the Gordon Hayward situation, I did wash dressed this before we wrap it up. Jimmy's got dates. He's got he's got low winds. He's gotta get he's gotta get going, codes rear its ugly head. In ages. Well, you're being responsible Jimmy and we thank you for it. But your girl watching I mean sliding. I mean it's all good. But anyways, not what we do here. So here's what the reports and again this stuff's going to come out and it's really hard to just you know, people are going to jump on stuff because it's going to kind of suit their narrative and it's what people do all the time. So I'm going to avoid doing that. However long the reason I'm more inclined to believe that this might be true is because it actually hurts Danny's case to find out you know, that this if this would be true that Gordon that they were about to offer a hundred thousand and the Pacers were too so so the reports are Celtics and Pacers each were offering the numbers have been thrown around north of a hundred and up to 1:10, which is way higher than thought and not too too far off from the 120. He got from Charlotte. And so when you piece it all together again, we're trying to kind of sleuth this together to you're looking at what Gordon Didn't want to come here at the Celtics offer was what it was told them. He didn't want to be here. They worked out an extension seemingly to get the Indiana trade done feels like Danny kind of held his cards a little bit too long and Charlotte swooped in it's possible. Gordon always was going to wait and see but the reason I don't believe it is that two-day extension never would have been granted if Gordon wanted to see the market first you go to juice left on Tuesday off to doubt that extension existed simply to complete this deal to send Gordon away from Boston, which he clearly didn't want if the money was the same to Indiana for money. That was roughly the same as what Boston was offering and it appears that the reason behind not doing this is Danny didn't like Myles Turner. So we're back to the is something better than nothing to be here Thursday we had before and again, I was firmly in the and a lot all of us were I think something is better than nothing take it it learned to enjoy Miles Turner and move on and if off Is what it came and again, you're hearing different people say different things Kevin O'Connor on his podcast was trying to give to anybody the benefit of the doubt. He's a bit of a I'm not going to call him a Hummer but he's sympathetic to the Celtics situation here. He doesn't want to Heap on them. But he's saying this just sounds like Danny bashed it. I don't know how we're going to walk away from this thinking anything, but that maybe maybe we do but I don't know. This is Danny clearly fell short is he didn't get that? It's a mismanaged situation. It sounds like in one that again. I believe that you know, if this happened to another organization, we watched a rival organization right now have have a mess something up like this loose star players year-over-year lose assets get nothing in return. We would be burying them burying. Yeah my takes til the February one you go back to February and say did offer them then anticipate what can be coming later in terms of a deal in terms of what you might have to pay for him. Fire in a different places and the first guy with the pitchforks if gaining is treated Gordon Hayward trade them. Well now I'm using some revisionist history there some retrospective to you know, anticipate what ultimately happened and say if you're in that position and have an idea that that might happen that might be the best way to asset manage then because you get back to your in a better position. Oh, well, I always thought about it with Kyrie. Like if you really think you're going to lose him at the end of the year. There's a strong case here to move them because once you get to that point, I was all in on Kyrie moving more sense because you knew Kyrie hated it here. You're in a position of strength. I would have anything for Kyrie there anything you Jimmy, you know, we had this game is a million times is against the thing is though in those spots you say. Oh, maybe they can win. Maybe they can do it. And that's where the Celtics ultimately went with that now right now, I'm firmly in Danny's dead. On this and you know, you can roll the tape to last week. What was the lower me and Jimmy talking about when we were discussing Indiana package here Turner's just yeah, like what do people imagine when they think Jake Turner? Like I put a pictures of Anthony Davis and just these guys because I don't know what people were watching all these years not to mention when he played with Kemba Tatum Brown and smart on the name is a nobody likes Turner Bobby. Yeah, not people don't love trying to we were trying to talk ourselves into it. But the argument was simply I like the Thompson was coming around the corner kick in the group chat with this is what drives me nuts. The Celtics had a plan a and and mucked it. Let's not pretend that plan b or c was in fact plan a and possibly even better than plan a it wasn't this is not what Danny Wanted. Let's go back to that one. That went. Let's say the package was Doug McDermott who just kind of stinks like he is a mediocre Wing play a.m. And Turner a fairly mediocre Center here for Tristan Thompson. And this is where we disagree John we have two different visions of what Tristan Thompson could be for this team. I think he's a game-changer Jimmy's close in my Camp here, but you know, you always an option Bobby. I'm not saying that I don't disagree that it could you could trip into this working again. Okay, but it wasn't the plan not plan a they were not prepared to let Gordon walk because all cobbled together. They did not want to lose the asset for nothing it that is what happened. Now you're saying shoulder-shrug. We never know it could work out but it wasn't the plan. So there's no reason to defend it. It was my question is at what point they figured out that they could go to a Thompson because don't you think the option was there to eat Nicolas Batum and the options still there to do something with Charlotte Ki boys talking about Terry Rozier. I don't think that's possible at this point, but they chose to just let Hayward walk in that situation instead of it shows nothing. It was chosen for them. There was always a chance I Charlotte need a ten million in relief to do this. Do you think they wanted to just cut off to whom and eat ten million dollars a year? They're like they could have worked someone's asking here is Kim but injured the answer is yes. That's why we started this stream a few people jumping in late. We are catching you up. Kemba Walker not injured but it's a lot easier to Ranger. Is he heard you had an update on it? Will Circle back to that later cuz people are asking but yeah, go ahead by break the tie here Jimmy. I mean, where do you see this now if the Celtics along the way in these Ninja The breaks the tie on your side. I'll just bring in more people Bobby if we if we look back in the situation. I'm not afraid to go what on V either I don't care if we look back on the situation and say Danny in Indiana talking for days and days and days all of a sudden La those to La teens that possibly could have taken Thompson went in different directions and the Celtics find out there the top shooters after Tristan Thompson if they walk away from this, I think that's a realistic possibility and a good move. So yeah, I don't even know what I don't even know what we're trying to say anymore plan is and plan it was either Joe or John you didn't you couldn't I understand what you're saying. I just don't think that it's it's this is no different than saying cantoran. Kemba was better than Horford and I recall you you are under State and Christian faith and so much and there's no point is this is no reason to pretend the thing that you're doing because this is where you are right now, which still might be good was what you intended to do. It was dead. What did you want them to do? It's not what I wanted. This. This is where we're stuck on this argument. It is not what I wanted. It is clearly what they wanted which was not to have this happen. And now this is what's that zip code set to on his podcast in terms of the assets that we're talking about here because they still have assets when you think about it Thompson for two years. When you think about the trade exception that could be coming back which we also debate about the other day. They they canvassed the league apparently on Miles Turner's value as a secondary trade Target for three years eighteen million a year and teams didn't want them but no one around the lead the Pacers are begging teams right now, but I know no one wants some yeah. So what do you type Doug McDermott useless as an asset Myles Turner next to useless as an asset. So are you really salvaging much there by getting those two guys gave you this. Can you drag his corpse along with you until his contract is up and then dump the expiring just to have the asset I get it's it's what it comes down to it's whether or not you want to not have one or not have the salary job. Books and and and and completely let the asset walk at this point you're in mid-level exception land and that's where they are and they got Tristan Thompson and it's a Band-Aid and it's the best that they could do given the circumstances. All right, Jimmy jump in on that one. Well, no, so here's I mean, I'm I'm going to say a few things one clearly. It looks like it was not plan a to to have this situation for the sauce last year planted in happen either. It was planned be what it worked went out Warford walked when Kyrie Irving what they ended up with Kemba Walker and now here we are with Kemba Walker they they you know, like if we were able to get Kemba Walker in the Centre with Charlotte, so they made the most out of a pretty shity situation there. And Danny Ainge has actually done that a good amount over the last ten years, you know life can be is kind of worked out whether it's you know, getting Isaiah Thomas and catchy lightning-in-a-bottle there, you know, and and he's you know, when you look at some of the mistakes they made in the NBA draft he's been able to sort of dead. Keep them competitive by making some big meal Marcus Morris. The other thing I want to say is this we're writing off. We're writing off this Pacers trade right now. I'm blanking on his name. We were just talking about Myles Turner. Thank you. Myles. Turner isn't bad. Stephen A guy who's been able to acquire some guys at lower value and make them in the better play 25 for exactly. Why is the entirely giving that's what I mean is like I would rather bring in players like that for Brad, right? I mean, what is what is Brad? What is Brad's use if it's not too long take some of these young guys, you know, put him into a good culture get him under his way. She's better at than what they're good at and get them away from what they're not doing. Well get them, you know, the whole Celtics, you know franchise get him out of India. Maybe you culture change is good for guys that just out the window. Oh, the rest of the league doesn't want to trade for him. So your stuff like seeing wanna I don't know if it's at these big job. You bring a guy in you can add he's better than nothing. So maybe he's not your ideal. It's not nothing now. And again, his roster spot is better than what so, even if you could make the case, he's more valuable than Thomas and like John said he turns into an expiring contract the last year of his deal. Worst case scenario. He does still feel a need again. I haven't watched every single game mouse turner, but I know what he does. I know what he does. Okay, and I think that there's room for growth there. So you can't just tell me. Oh, yeah Celtics weren't interested. They didn't want to do the job instead of the real quick more to the plan a factor take Turner out of it the fact that the Celtics seem to be willing to go. Well past a point that any of us thought that they would get a contract with Hayward means that they looked at their roster and they said we need this and putting everything and couldn't get it done. And so that's two-fold as one for whatever reason. The hundred and ten or wherever they were willing to go which we would have considered to be a massive overpay for hair Hayward and it was well within range of what he ended up getting something. They desperately wanted to do couldn't make it home and then they were in a shit or get off the pot situation. Maybe you guys do the Pacers trade you don't love or he walks and again, it just comes back to this. We are debating whether or not we like Myles Turner instead of debating whether or not I like having something rather than nothing in the Hayward to argue Thompson something but I'll give that yeah, Bobby Bobby saying it's not something for nothing. It's it's either Turner or time. You always knew a place like Thompson was possible cuz we when we talked about early in the offseason worst-case scenarios for Hayward, he walks and you get the mid-level and we look through a bunch of guys and we said I guess this guy he mentioned Thompson and every scenario we viewed that as a consolation prize. I don't know why we're now looking at it as if it was both more better, then there's two different mid log. If you're a pet taxpayer, you can offer five million if you're a non-taxpayer, you can offer ten million and that ten million is why you get Thompson. He wanted to take in ten million for two years. They give twenty million for two years because you didn't get those players back. That's my point. It was either or in that situation. You can either take the money back from Indiana still be a taxpayer team and get maybe I don't know states with the Celtics wanted to do is what it could have been. I mean, that's why you possibly could have walked away from the table. I'll give you guys this stuff. Could you have made a bigger deal with Indiana than we talked about this last week put in Romeo Langford bird put in some other guys and try to get you had to do I think that's a good question. Now, I'm struggling they would have done that throwing in Romeo Langford. I'm TJ Warren. Yeah, so if you could get there and they chose not to I think that's a fair criticism if you couldn't get to warn and again, I don't like Oladipo that much either but if you couldn't get Oladipo Thursday, You wanted them. I just it's it's Turner and McDermott and you have the chance to sign Thompson instead. I walk away from that too. If I'm in that spot again when we talked about Thompson. This offseason, I didn't think they could actually get him. I thought the Lakers would scoop him up. I thought the Clippers would like I thought he would be westbound easily. I'm so shocked. They they could get him and maybe it was just odd but the might actually concerns me. But anyway the fact that they could get a big wonder whether other people know something we don't but I again I think Thompson will be fine. I think needs to be far short of a game-changer. I think he's going to be okay. I don't think it's better than I think plan a was actually horrible was actually Hayward on an overpay versatile take a look at your scenario junk coming from Indiana overpay for Hayward where they are now, like I would have ranked from Hayward one overpay for Indiana to where they are now three, that's me. So, yep. Your number one would have been keeping them at a hundred. I wouldn't I want a hundred if if you could have convinced Hayward to do for a hundred I would have done that. I wouldn't think I think I would have done that too. I think that was option one. The project was Hayward clearly didn't want it said but I'll do Indiana. I'm take a HomeTown discount there and then Danny stuck Indiana thought they had leverage because Hayward clearly didn't want to play for Boston Danny thought he had it cuz he thought them work it out there with Indiana with Miami and New York Charlotte effed-up the whole game. I don't know whether what I don't know is is in if in in the are doppelgangers in Indiana right now, are they yelling at each other? Like we're good a frigate at Hayward and we we blew it. I don't know. I don't know that. Yeah, we don't know what the Pacers yeah, Now the report was that they're offering a hundred but you know, what about like in a sign-and-trade situation the Pacers people I start out there really wanted them and they they were ready to dump Turner for reasons. I've mentioned and Ed. They're probably pretty bummed this income together. I don't know what I don't know. What would have gotten it done. Then if Oladipo was a concern and that was never going to be a straight-up swap. You take him in a contract year. I don't know where how that deal gets done. Am I think you'd have to take a bigger. If you want to know a Depo suddenly smart and Kemba get involved if you want to do waran. Oh, that's great so much, you're sending prospects well because of the money there if if you want to do warrant and Turner, you're sending a link for your sending a Rob Williams, which I don't think any of us would have had huge problems with no. But again, how much is TJ Warren? You could have those guys and their children. You know, how long does make sure you do their first born? I like them. I would have done that potential deal for it take just cuz you need wing dip we're back with semi ojeleye now, so you would have addressed Center and the wing in that trade. I would not have done Oladipo. I just want to say that our chat has devolved into one or two Raptors fans really agitating a bunch of selfish friends there. The Raptors fans are here for you Bobby and they're dead. Little bit of a border signing Aron Baynes up in Toronto a little bit of a border war going on here. Expands and Raptors fans are going to have to get along down in those comments at some point or Another Life. Yeah. Well go into the Tampa Bay around right about the Celtics right. Now. The Celtics are the Raptors people just leave us, you know, you know, right they just laid off. So we're going to wrap it because again, we're going to go in circles here. But again just to recap at the start of the show. We did tell you guys about Kemba Walker. This is not a new injury some people in chat were asking your it's the same knee injury that forced him, you know to be kind of a little maintenance situation when he was in the bubble that flared up page during the season a couple of times and then again when he started resuming basketball activities before action in the bubble started required a little bit of Maintenance, he was slow to get started Brad Stevens was on a podcast app. Today on the clns media network with Bob Ryan and Jeff Goodman and gave a little insight saying not so sure Ken was going to be ready. So this one of the reasons we came out to talk about this developing situation money. Definitely check out that interview either on our YouTube channel what you're on right now many of you can see the whole video interview their subscribe as well because you will get access to these live chats. When we do both of you will get a notification check out that podcast as well Ryan and Goldman podcast to get great guests super interesting conversation basketball college and pro two of the best in the business too in the best we've ever thought about Brian, you know needs no introduction and obviously. Jeff knows everybody super well-connected here at all levels of basketball. So definitely check that out and then the second thing was uh contract. Um details came out something some Pacers offering Gordon Hayward a little bit over a hundred million over four years. And the question did the Celtics do everything they could do to maximize wage. Situation and the debate rages on so I'll give you guys closing thoughts here before we go and we thank our sponsor one last time Celtics fans. You're going to love Tristan Thompson and John and Sylvia believe it by the end of the year as well. I like Tristan Thompson. I don't you're going to love him. Okay, you guys thoughts on Thompson huge fan big fan of the car damage too. So happy to welcome them to Boston. My my closing thought is I am officially full-time Campbell watch now moving forward. I think that I think I'm Gordon hayward's talk see you later. We barely know you will say around I'm concerned about the players that are on this team moving forward. So I'm turning my attention to Kim Walker and I want to see how he's his knee responds to, you know being back in the court and I'm hoping that having a regular, you know, sort of rehab or whatever you want to call log. Routine in Boston in a great facility with great team doctors in the likes in Boston that maybe it's not as bad as it's it. Sounded what what I'm going to delude myself into believing is that this is going to be a dynamite draft class. So I'm putting all my eggs in the Naismith Pritchard basket to make contributions this year beyond what we've seen any rookies make in the last couple of years. That's one number to the thing I'm concerned with is Kardashian influence on Jayson Tatum that freaking terrifies me my question guys back and terrifies me mister soft-spoken mister soft-spoken lived with his mom up until last year. You know l a boy. All of a sudden is like woah, I've got all this money and this is cool. I'm worried. He couldn't get the hoop last year. I'm worried about Tatum. I'm worried a little bit. Yeah. He's got that he's got money now. Yep. So yeah, who you started when campers out? You got smart the wings a center Naismith Grant or Teague. Did you really think rent like with a straight face off Grant could be the four with that group? All right, we're going to we're going to let Bobby go here. We'll talk about that some other, you know, anyway, thank you guys for joining this as a off my emergency pod, but we want to sneak one in before the holiday. Bobby has to make all Thanksgiving dinner this year cooking cooking starts tonight. So I also got a lot of wine to get me through it. But you know what? I enjoy I'm going to do it. Yes. I got a lot of prep work tonight to I got to make a bunch of Pies tomorrow. What kind everybody likes one pumpkin one blueberry, but we've found make we gotta make a few side dishes as well. So we've got the bird the bird is being handled elsewhere, but we've got we've got some work to do tomorrow. So this is the last night we can do this. Thank you everybody for joining Happy Thanksgiving. No, that's it. That's it for me. Oh, sorry, Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Everybody will see you guys on the other side. Maybe this weekend if there's any news developing trade exception, who knows maybe Bogdan somehow ends up here later guys.

Kemba Kemba Walker Celtics Hayward Jimmy Danny Marcus Smart Charlotte 20% 80% Bobby Tristan Thompson Danny Ainge four months NBA Gordon Hayward Myles Turner Jayson Tatum Brad Turner
Moving Forward

High Noon

23:02 min | 11 months ago

Moving Forward

"Lewis in a tweet saying the ladies Kobe. They got blown out and he told me to everybody. That had kobe shoes honestly they could wear the same song they said in a spirit of reverence and good humor but at the time. Not Have Your logo out. How soft on? Not when you try to take the shoes somebody paid for them and it wasn't colby each so that'll give you the right to do nothing with him after battle. But I is Clippers Lakers Bomani. It takes a lot to postpone an NBA game. It typically requires bad weather or technical difficulties terrorism but when the Lakers asked not to play tonight as scheduled both the League and the Clippers agreed to postpone the game until later date the NBA said the franchise is deeply grieving still feeling feeling the aftershocks of Kobe. Bryant's death so Bo. What did the League's decision here Sadie you as you have a game at the Lakers? Don't show right like the League. Didn't really have a whole lot. How to leverage and this one is one thing when you got a few individual teams that are saying? Hey a couple of our guys are really be down by this or whatever it is when the whole franchise is basically come to a standstill bill. Now we'll also look getting up more than realize. Oh Wow there's a whole sports world that's still going we should probably get ready for this television. been totally consumed by what had been happening Cobi. And that's NEAT so if you're there and you are in that building you guys are saying. Hey Man we can't do this what's the NBA going to say. y'All better not not going to do that now. This was the move they had to to make even though they play the Games on Sunday. Because there's a huge difference when you talk about the franchising question. We talked about the Lakers. All the time as a family business. So what does that really mean. It means it's a smaller operation behind the scenes. It's more ramshackle corporate behind the scenes but it also means that the people who've been working there have been there forever and so rob Kalinka the. GM of the Lakers by many accounts was Kobe. Bryant's best friend Jeannie. Both the owner of the team is a person who considered Kobe to be family. The people in the building when they announced the Lakers did that. They tried him grief counselors. That did not seem exaggerated. Because if you've been working there for twenty years gut to know Kobe for twenty years and and you probably need a little more time. No I mean I think the league themselves in a bind. I don't think they should have played two games on Sunday right. I think that if all things are held equal then you say we're not going to do this however not the person who sold these games to television. I'm not the person's gotTa deal with everything that comes from that so I can understand them saying. Hey Man Games. It already started by the time this what happened. We're just going to have to do. Is it like the NFL. Playing after. John F. Kennedy got killed where you're like do you really have to do this. I don't know what else they were going to do in this circumstance this window go because both teams play in the same city makes it a lot easier to try to reschedule this figure out how to do it. So since you have the leeway to do it then you go ahead and back off a second and then get yourself so ready for Friday when the Lakers play again at the staple center win this game gets rescheduled. It'll be a massively impactful game. It's the Lakers and the clippers but the useful reminder here. I need to like because on Sunday. Everyone was saying well coby would've wanted this. They would have wanted us to go and play these games. Well the other flipside of it. It is if you're going through a tough time like it's okay to take a couple of moments more than his. I'll feel better about so unpopular opinion. Cockbain got up vote right. Kobe would've wanted this okay. But we're the ones that's about your next. Kobe Bryant many of US watch this final game last night. That's been. Kobe scored his sixty point on a free throw in two thousand sixteen. Mike Rico was on the call that night and this is what he remembers he hits the first one fifty nine. He's at the line of second time. You've got to watch on the free throw line closest to coby back to the camera. Gordon Hayward Gordon Hayward steps into the lane is cope. He's about to shoot that last resort for sixty in case he missed it to give them another shot for six. But every not Gordon Hayward I like you know what Dude you get it. Okay but Hayward says he didn't do that on purpose Probably losing the video. What do you think yeah? I believe that there was some intention here and it's so deliberate and obvious crossing the line that it makes me think that something else was going on and the last time a sports moment made me feel anything like this was Brett. Farve getting sacked by Michael Strahan. You remember that Michael Strahan last three minutes of the game fourth quarter you single season record is on the line what happens red farve calls the audible and basically hands the sack to Michael Strahan and after the game red four core did not want to admit it because it did feel the compromise of Sporting Agra. Yeah that's a whole lot different though. This didn't feel like they think about this until Mike. Three coaches say we did what. What were you watching? It live on now look Hayward says that he did not do it on purpose okay. It's my question is why didn't you do it on purpose. Where you've concern right now? With coq for revile. y'All wasn't going on. The situation was not changed because of this. Were you Soga. Boxing him out in this particular job open. Is that what you were doing that. Fourth quarter looked like the jazz group and a tool as much as they possibly could because everybody knew what it was so Predator Gordon Hayward if he did really do it take the credit for say it. Hey everybody thinks a good deal for this. But I'm not really a good dude to which I say to help dog you really good. No poor yeah. I feel like if Gordon Hayward came out and just said I did. It was me I did it for toby. I was doing it the whole way for him. He would have been kind of like eating for free in Los Angeles for the rest of his life. Yeah also what he appears to be. The only do that was still out here playing horn at a time when this is not about hugh this was about the everybody everybody knew it was about Kobe. If you WANNA be about Kobe you should faked injured up next. Philip rivers whose idea of a graceful goodbye probably totally doesn't involve Jay Glazer. WHO declared yesterday that? The chargers have moved on from their thirty eight year. Old quarterback after Sixteen Years River is of course had already moved his wife and nine kids out of San Diego Florida in order to be closer to where they grew up in Alabama so Bo does this report about the chargers. Now moving on from rivers makes sense to you. Yeah I saw him play last year. It would make perfect sense to make the decision you were gonNA move on. They were talking about possibly moving off of him during the season right. This happened the Sunday morning. Shows you here they were put it out there. Pay a fiddle doesn't play so well we might go to tyrod Taylor. Do you know how badly Philip rivers has to play for that team to tell the world we might go to tyrod Taylor. That's where they were now. Maybe they could have been a bit more dignified about this. This is something that comes directly to represent finds out before US something like that. It doesn't sound like that's what the case was under these circumstances but but this is the NFL and when you're not good enough they move all and if you're Philip rivers I gotta imagine that you're sitting at home in Florida now and you're thinking to yourself okay. I get that the chargers charters want to move on from me. I get that in one score games be were super terrible last year and in part it's because in five of those final possessions. I threw an interception. I think Philip rivers probably has a sense of the moment to get. What's happening here but I also think he's probably frustrated because what are the charges go do Bomani? Is it Tom Brady time. Is it time for another thing man. If you go replace me to get another me. I've got a problem with that. They decided to go get a guy in the first round of whatever it is is that okay you kind of make that move but Tom Brady is basically going to give you whatever the hell I would give you in the same place under these circumstances. That's where I'd be mad but I wanted to say this again man. We really do. It is with quarterbacks just about everybody has a bad ending in the NFL. Hardly anyone gets the walkaway on on their turns. I don't know why anyone would expect for it to be different for Philip rivers. If he wants this to be on his terms then he retired at the end of the season. Yeah and to his credit right. He is like the face of vist franchise almost two decades with this team. He was the guy who embodied this team but now the question becomes. Does he go. Because is it Indianapolis to go take over over for Jacoby another team use him like the bucket. Sacked team is saying. We don't want you anymore. Why does anybody else right like? That's right get confused by if people were there. Where's Philip rivers was going to land when he goes to these other places for set didn't have a great year last year? But Philip rivers didn't do enough for me say I'm going to bring this thirty eight year old dude on here and meanwhile Tom Jameson. Winston in Tampa Bay like I am legitimately offended that got through too many interceptions last year. At least I almost a single season passing record coming up next. George George Kid. Who's been playing with a torn labor? How do you judge someone not by what they say by what they do? We're a nation of doers. What's Mike Bloomberg about doing things? A middle class kid worked his way through college. An Entrepreneur Bloomberg built a global news and information business from Scratch Mayor River Diverse Progressive City. Mike Bloomberg rebuilt after nine eleven. Creating nearly five hundred thousand jobs improving healthcare and public schools. Now he's is running for president. And Mike's the changing from chaos to steady leadership from lies to someone who believes in facts and data from divisiveness to someone who builds teams nurtures good ideas and hold himself accountable for results. Mike Bloomberg knows how to lead to build to deliver to do. He'll win win night. This country Mike will get things done. I'm Mike Bloomberg candidate for president. And I approve this message because we need to deliver on the promise of the. The American Dream Paid for by Mike Bloomberg Twenty twenty. I knew this coming from the seaport district and Pierce seventeen brought to you by chase. Hey Man couple days come home let it go around you hear me you. Yeah I stop too late now to both fitting for says Super Bowl this year. Could it'd be a blowout favorite and forty nine at the same way to forty nine. B Broncos Marino's dolphins you in on that I am out on this and I am really in on the forty niners otherwise but the number number one status that is mind blowing to me. All of this is that Pat Mahomes when he starts games for the chiefs. He doesn't lose games by more than one score. That's the typical loan makes me you think that Trent dilfer his little bit over his skis on well. The big thing for me on this is no one knows something about those scenes. We're talking about these teams a lot more talented than those. That was John. elway basically the out there by himself Dan Marino and a lot of way up. Say the same thing. The chiefs are not one-sided in the ways that you can make the argument that those eighty four dolphins worth so no. I do not think that this is going to be a blow out next topic Andrew Berry. The browns have Tabarre former executive for the eagles to be there next general manager manager and Executive Vice President of football operations. So you went on that. Maybe I don't know. Hey look at Berry I have no. Why do whether this is going to work out? The Best I can say is here for years to be one of these analytic shorts and he will be in a place where they value the door to where the doors want to get everybody on the same page so at nothing else is continuous for the browns. He is not merely a dork or someone with behavior of a door key is a former Harvard. Football Star three three times and all conference. CORNERBACK Bomani somebody. I covered when I was a junior and he was a freshman and so I feel very old about this with the reason I see this being troublesome for him is not talent or accurate or anything like that simply because the owner of the team. Jimmy has limb. Seems to be as micromanage right now. He's ever been and that to me is a recipe for all sorts of bad things to happen in the kitchen. You know what they call the three-time Allcock d from Harvard manager last day. Call Your Vice President of Executive Football Paul Operations as well. The Cleveland browns up next joy. Not As tight end tells pardon my takes. He's playing with a torn the Labor for two years and he doesn't want to get surgery surgery because it will affect his workout days. You this decision I am not. I don't know of any doctor conceivably would be in on this decision. Obviously this is about toughness with the weird thing about George Kibble Lorde. The predictable thing about him is that he also told pardon my take that he starts every game day off putting on his helmet and bashing his head into a wall some thinking that maybe this isn't all about medical but this other counter intuitive though about the idea of being about toughness because you know it's probably worse than being out there with a torn labrum recovering from the surgery that the torn lay Abram within come with that would require different level of toughness. And that's why I'm not like this right here may be look. I can play with tour Labor. He'd probably be better with two good. Just thought right. Yeah he's also a guy who wore number twenty four for Kobe Bryant in high school so that makes me think. Maybe there's some of the mentality stuff going on to say and now plane incur show. Kershaw said he'd like to see more remorse from the astros players for their role and besides feeling scandal. So you win on in on this people out here talking about I was scrubbed because this right here right to question is this. Do Tipping his pitches. Now the pitches were tipping themselves. Kershaw water remorse. I WANNA fight somebody just burland it can be. I want this in Sky Writing Clayton Kershaw. He has had his reputation software more than anybody else. Because of the postseason twenty seven world series would've gone such a long way to repairing the estimation. We have for that guy because in that one home game they played in Houston. I believe six earned runs four innings. All all of that tells me that something was going on. Even if other stuff happened is hosting career to make us a shout out to everyone who gets the Diet is in the Astros played in the world series. Because do you still think the Astros play in the National League. I know I do now. Tom Brady Joe. Montana says Brady shouldn't leave New England if he doesn't have to you IMMA Joe. I'm I'm in with Joe who clearly didn't love those years with the chiefs and those even that bad it's simply. There were a little bit beneath the dignity of Joe Montana. But what's the big difference here. Bo is that when Joe Montana left Steve Young was already there who is going to be the guy to replace. Tom Brady seems to be a big difference in these. That'd be fair the Kansas City chiefs here they went to the AFC championship with him there. So that wasn't so much the dignity of him as much as it's all new. You've been playing in this place where you've been there with one system. Everybody knows you know everything. That's going on at the series adjustment to make when Brett Farr went to the Vikings yes. They're largely because jet saying how that win right and he goes to the Vikings in large part because he knows the offensive coordinators. Or if there's some place that Brady could go that's familiar. Maybe this works but if he does not have to leave the place he's always been it seems obvious all parties involved that would be replaces thing and finally Pollini Pollini is the new defensive coordinator at Lsu so you in on Pollini keeping that Lsu defense at a high level okay so being at a high level on defense at Lsu. I don't know how much they'll have to do. A POLLINI and how much they don't have to do with the fact that you're always going to have tally dirks thing last year. Probably probably the best corner in the country as a true freshman. That's what you get to coast. There's gotta be better than what he's been dealing with the last five years at youngstown state so I think they'll be all right and the record at Youngstown. State wasn't really impressive. It was like thirty three and twenty eight or something in that zone. This seems to be a bet on at order on. Do you believe in Ed or draws ability ready to manage and assemble a staff because the guys that he had right Dave Aranda and then obviously and Joe Brady those were his guys worked out well but now he's trying to find her pending but in terms of a bed around me to do one and assets episode of Defense Coordinator. Lsu before like a defense is very good. It's a bet on both leaning. But I see him at this level in a while coming up next Richard Sherman on Kobe. Bryant's legacy all right. I don't know why Vernon Maxwell just loved trolling these cities on the tweets but This is a video from Utah with take clinic and these are the best shooters that they had to offer and shout out to our production staff either way because they blurred the faces of these young individuals presumably because they're underage underage. But I bet those kids also appreciated in general based on how these shots are going things one. Those kids have no idea who vernon maxwell number two. I can only imagine the things that they said about Vernon Maxwell in that ARENA IN UTAH. Don't you worry you'll find. You will be in a baby matt up as a registered says Kobe Kobe Bryant used to tell him. Let's watch what else to say about. Colby was really sad yesterday and this morning I was I was Kinda down I was. I was in the dumps and then I just I just thought about what he would tell me. You know what I mean. We'll tell me. Stop being a baby man up and play it and do it in his honor and when his game for him you know. And that's what we're GONNA try to do you know we're going. I'M GONNA go out there and try to try to play. Play some dominating ball Just like he wanted to Mama mentality still live on Bob. Low Anything Kobi's desperately the IMPACT Super Bowl participants. I think it's going to be fresh in their minds. It's kind of like John Lennon dies. And you're a musician and your job is to play the biggest concert in the world but what I also keep on anticipating that. I'm going to go cynical about this man like The cliches are coming through like the thing that kind of did trigger my radar on that but the fact is these guys actually cared about l.. Kobe Kobe was a mentor. To Richard. Sherman Travis Kelsey Wears Twenty Four because the Koby Pat mahomes watches before every game videos on Youtube of Kobe. Bryant just talking because that's the kind of guy that Kobe was the people who played a totally different sport. We are reaching and we know that we are reaching it is appropriate to come to media day and ask these guys these questions about Valco. Because that's the story. I told him to get that. How is this going to impact the Super Bowl? That's basically what we're asking here. House is going to impact super bowl super bowl. We're going to get is going to be just about the same suppo we would have got your Kobe. Bryant was sitting in fifty yard line seats right. This is the thing that we do in. This does worry me where the game the game is the game. I don't WanNa take this tragedy. And just just turn it into something that becomes part of storyline in an unrelated event that feels exploitation to make their the astros have decided on dusty Baker to be there next manager her tweeted USA. Today's Bob Nightingale so Bo if true is dusty a good choice for Houston. I think he's a good choice. If for no other reason than he's a good manager the last four teams that he managed won ninety games. You never know that. From the way that people talk about them but the way that people talk about him has a lot to do with what they feel is his resistance toward analytics in baseball. which brings us to him? Managing the as you all are. I've said this before and I will say it again. It is amazing the commitment to diversity that you find raises was his. It's time to clean up a scandal. We have scandal. What do we do? We get the best manager in baseball networking. Why wasn't he working? Well I mean I got questions since questions are fair on this but the other thing that dusty Baker brings and I think this is a great idea beyond the fact that he is in many ways the paradigm attic opposite of what the analytics analytic thing was is that the guy knows how to handle controversy and crazy clubhouse turmoil he was the guy who kept berry bonds of Jeff Kent from spilling out into the public and consuming an entire clubhouse he was the guy who was able to manage. All sorts of public controversies as well as anybody in part because people just like dusty musty. Baker here's my thing about him. Supposedly being the paradigm matic opposite. I believe you broke out all five syllables on did is he that or people harping on on that quote about walks right by how much I don't know what the quote was in good with. The quote was almost a decade ago. This do keeps winning and winning winning all all the doors wanted to do was get all the Internet and say but he said that thing one time about the wolves like the way that people talk about dusty Baker how good manager years compared to what the actual results it should make. Every one of those people look in a mirror. He's Legit yes fourteen. That's how the kings down to the T.. Wolves last night with one minute. Thirty nine seconds slept regulation two kings one one thirty three twenty nine in overtime needing this play from deer and Fox get it into Ot. Let's watch offensive rebound. A south style never worked that well ever hear me VAT that four seconds left in the game tie like Apple. Generals fell to fifteen thirty two surprised by how much they've underachieved this season. I am surprised prized by this. And it makes me feel mostly for Carl towns because this roster is a massive problem and yes. I'm surprised at this this bad but you look down at like what they're doing badly and what they're doing horrifically and the defence is kind of mediocre. It's kind of middle of the road in the League. But it's the offense offense. It's the fact that the second best player on offense after Carl towns Andrew Wiggins and then you take like a Marianas trench level plunge into who knows what if Carl towns else is as good a player is. You'll say that he is he'll team does not have the second worst record in the West. There's no way around that. We have all watched enough basketball. Where the people who are towns like a top ten top fifteen level sort of play right somebody to build your champion around? Tell me a player who in year five that you could win in a championship by building. Whose team is the second worst in the West? I'm not even saying that with him. They should necessarily make it to the playoffs because that might be a lot to ask but they are ten and twenty in the game that he plays so you can't even write this often. Blame it entirely on the fact that he's been hurt their ten or twenty any place. Why are they not better it? He is as good as you say he because because I think the players around him are actually that bad. That's I think the razor answer here and by the way. I guess that there are questions about Karl towns and his toughness especially in the postseason but Bo what he can do on a court is such an ray again you just want to talk about his talent on a sheet and then you just want to look on a piece of paper look at all the numbers that all get put up in that is fantastic but for them to be as bad as you say to justify their record being as bad as it is him being the do. They're they're five or twelve when he doesn't play that's not oh great for them to be so sorry that their second to last in the West they should be oh for without and they're not he's just not to do this agree but number thirty thousand dollars because TMZ is saying that Lance Armstrong is offering a week long bike trip with him around my Llorca for thirty thousand dollars. So do you see people actually paying for this. Oh yeah that'd be on the Internet. People do all kinds of stuff all the time here's last. Lsu Rile him unless you you know say stuff you got to be ready to keep up. I'm also worried that this is basically a tour to fire fest situation. Because he's going to invite all these people to my Orca doesn't people people with him and another doper. That he wrote around with thirty thousand dollars. Sounds pretty good until show up. And he's not no no no he's going to be there. You just go to remember these jerky you don't want to hang out with also classrooms coming up next.

Kobe Kobe Bryant Kobe Kobe Lakers Gordon Hayward Gordon Hayward Kobe League Philip rivers Lsu Bo Tom Brady chiefs Mike Bloomberg Astros Clippers chargers Mike NFL NBA Colby
Gordon Hayward Celtics Decision Special

The Garden Report | Boston Celtics Post Game Show from TD Garden

53:14 min | 2 weeks ago

Gordon Hayward Celtics Decision Special

"Yep. All right, let's do it. NBA. What do we call this guy's just free agency. Is this pre-draft? What is it from Baton Rouge? NBA offseason show. This is Wild Wild West day to yeah, so we're we're underway today was today was already pretty pretty Bonkers NBA off Seasons always lit. I usually have a little bit of time to digest everything but this is Turbo style. So we had a bunch of things going on today including really interesting news surrounding Gordon Hayward a couple of tracks already happened and another trade appears to be imminent, which is absolutely going to rock the balance of power in the Eastern Conference in the entire NBA. Let's say that John was not a good thing. This is a good thing wage. It's a great thing for the entertainment value of it. But first off we're going to talk about a few different things. We want to talk about our sponsor, which is minimum wage. Games and they're awesome and you get 20% off and free shipping with the code. Jimmy season of the upper corner Gardens. Yep, Garden 20 at manscaped.com. So do that job right away and you're going to get a whole bunch of stuff will tell you about on the ball washer. I don't know if you've got everything. It's awesome. I think it depends all of it. You won't share a thing if somebody typing I don't know I hear that to see if you look at my hands. No clicking and clacking. This is Faith in the court. Let's start with the news. So the Celtics important here where they're supposed to Seriously, what is that? I had no idea. It feedback think it's from John. I think it's Mike from your house. I disagree. What was that? Another window open? No, we're going to keep going will fly through it off for the Celtics are supposed to have a deadline today at 5. It didn't happen. It got extended. Both sides have that option and they moved it to Thursday. Now, this is super interesting for a lot of reasons and not one. I think means get Bobby we were talking before we went on air that this has to signify the Gordon's not coming back next year because if you look at what Thursday we means if you were to opt-in he would opt in and whatever happens happens. This is I leave or let's work out some sort of sign-and-trade and that appears to be where we are right now. Is that what you said the vibe? You guys are getting joe sway. Yeah. No question. That's that's the big sign for advice for sure. And and I think the way I look at it is and what it's doing something like big solid right now. I know we heard reports that he's fiddling portrayed to start off. But maybe that's exactly what this whole thing is. Maybe Gordon wanted to stay or maybe you want to weigh his options and once the suffix decided that to move on from him. He sort of asked him to play ball here and maybe that's why he's affected. Whereas most free agents would keep it moving. But then again most reasons are like going hey would rather unique situation. So maybe it's a sort of a a way that helped him, you know help the something to help him and find a team that he used to drive in in a certain situation. But yeah for sure I'm picking up Vibes also job because if I'm Gordon Hayward and something I mean like let's get a deal done here, you know if I'm going to Euro, so I'm thinking oh what kind of trade you go to dangle me and and I'm hoping to have your trust and now you're going to let me okay my next team. Well, I I want everyone else to start here, but I don't think it's a one with solid here. I think it works both hit on a Jose way, which is this spans the list of teams. We're we're here would go before we were looking at it and and what else maybe one other with the cap space to just sign in and log Next to sign him out right next. Yeah, you know and so those options limit it here you have you can open it up to a whole bunch of different teams and create a lot of options. There was a report as well that the Celtics tried to package Hayward. This is said this I believe they tried to package him and picks for the holiday things. So the stuff we were talking about earlier in the week. Um, it seems like it was real. I mean that they were they're trying to move around move pics try to get in on holiday who they really like for whatever reason will get into that more but just your thoughts on how this Hayward thing breaks or Bobby so that report in particular definitely lends credit to what you're actually saying about this seems to be imminent at the end of the Celtics and we're in Hayward relationship off and cut off any chance of the two sides coming together entirely though because of the fact that Hayward signing options are fairly limited as we talk about New Opportunities might be coming up with the heat or other team. Because of what might happen with the honest this weekend those teams have been trying to keep cap space open for next summer for the Sienna situation. But as of now, you're still talking about the Hawks you're still talk about the next and some awful teams that Hayward has this leverage. It's not a great amount of Leverage for him to walk away. I've been big on the Hawks all along as a possible destination for him and they've been interested in bogdanovich Thon Rondo. They want to spend their not being careful with their money right now and Hayward is still the best option for them where your team like Atlanta almost like, you know, the same thing with Boston a few years ago. It benefits you've spent because then you have at the very least a tradable assets sitting on that money and having it do nothing doesn't really do anything for you. So if you see somebody and they want to sign with you you by all means go for it. She could fit he'd be a really good. Yeah. So the point for the Celtics is that they have a significant amount of Leverage here and they want to get an appropriate return for Hayward cuz if you losing Hayward this team is much worse. If you don't get the right kind of people average only if Hayward absolutely doesn't want to go to the Hawks or the Knicks if he does if that's a fine Plan B. They don't have a ton of Leverage here. So they gotta make em work which means it might take cents on the dollar Jimmy your thoughts. Yeah, I'm a little surprised to see I guess come to this. I don't know maybe when you basically everything that's happened since the signing. I guess I shouldn't be but you know, we got one report that Danny tried to shop Kathy Walker to every team that would listen and now we got another one saying, you know, we try to shop Gordon Hayward or whatnot. But listen we talked about in previous videos If Gordon Hayward walks the Celtics suck are sitting there with nothing, right? So it's definitely in their best interest to exhaust all options. And I think it it's in Gordon hayward's best interest to that's why they're that's why they're both agreeing to this extension of this deadline because it's going to benefit both of them, you know, you wouldn't get both sides agreeing to this if if somebody who's in the driver's seat, right? So I definitely think that they're working together here. They you find some sort of long-term and you know, and I think it was cute it who said, you know, they're you know, they're you know, if Gordon Hayward has to be traded it's going to be a sign-and-trade which does open things off because the teams are in Lots of teams interested. That's the other interesting thing here is like you've got people lining up for him or Services which again to the to the fans out there and we've had ton of them in the chat just get rid of him. I hate em, you know, the the swings listen is the Celtics Tuukka, you know, like he is you know, what before it was Al but I mean, it's the love payment would be unreal. This is so ridiculous and I'm so ready to see this coming to an end. It's driven me crazy the last two years. Okay under the amount of vitriol the sky gets I like the song so I don't want this to happen. But I almost want to see him walk see how that he does without him and nothing in his place and have all the Celtics fans just be an Agony like, oh we did for life and give Heyward enough credit because this they rely on this guy quite a bit like they're going to need a fairly. You set it on our thread. They are apt walks for nothing there no longer a title Contender with this particular. Why are you making a sound like like, you know, he's been I don't know how long it took away. Everything steps up a notch and we saw it in the postseason in the bubble and they would hurt the something succeeded without them. All right? Okay. Well the point stands you still need again appropriate wage replacement for him and therefore I get that but I don't think I just look like you just Overlook how frustrating this whole thing has been for Celtics fans. Like maybe next deal. You finally get him. Okay, he's not healthy. Okay u e z. Okay, probably it's healthy when the subjects. Do you hear most the postseason? He's a ghost. I'm sorry. I'm talking about food Hayward. I mean, come on. Let's face it off. A few weeks that they flukes anymore every few weeks. There was an injury in November and there was an injury and when when were we doing these jobs? I thought he was fighting through a screen and he broke his frigging our soldiers talking about his ankle hurts like do or were you doing when everybody was in court date? Like how are you injured and everyone else is like better health wise especially Kimbo Even though three months. It's not let's not forget them. I stayed in the bubble Foster the injury two weeks early help the Celtics get a win and gain 5 and then, you know, it's fizzled out from there. But this guy has shown resiliency for this team. And he's the young he's been there he listened to a higher level and maybe it's a capo by age, but I still agree with him and believe that if this guy is healthy there in the NBA finals last name. Exactly everyone, but it's just frustrating this point. I don't blame something strange. I really don't know who's to say it's not going to be healthy next year. I mean, there's not any risks with him full thing. I'd love to see it. But I love to see it or you know, what? Why don't tell me just put them on ice and then put them out there and March maybe it's a time thing. Honestly. I'm not trying to make a joke here. Maybe you know ten months. This is a lot for his body at this point. Who knows maybe something though. It's something to it. Well, this is the issue that face in here. They have to aging they from Hayward and our go ahead Jimmy. We've been talking too much. No, no, I want to I think I'm on a little DeLay So I I think I was going to at this point. I am so just go. Yeah, just all right, so I was going to say this is the problem with the topic Jimmy go back to say no. I mean I don't I mean I don't I honestly don't even know where to pick up where you guys left off mean it was it was a nice spirited debate. I was I was entertained by it. But I mean, I think we're at Joey's, this is like the Celtics fans some Celtic fans blame Gordon Hayward for his injuries, which I don't think is really that fair. I think that's where Bobby comes in. He's like listening like these are quote unquote fluke injuries can't really blame in Hayward for this when he is healthy. He's like exactly what this team needs and then you have like the jokes Wayside saying when when you know, good question win or if like this guy's never healthier, is he going to be healthy? We have one thing left now on this deal and if we don't truly believe that he is ever going to be able to put it together, you know, when the way that they anticipated when they signed him then you try to trade and while he still has some value to yep. As you know, you go into the season and he gets hurt again. That's it. You know, I mean, that's really the end of the Gordon Hayward experiment and you're standing there with with the team that you already said isn't good enough to win in the NBA Finals with so I want to say this to the people who just want to dump them to or get turn or get anybody or anything for him. That's not Joe sway Joseph. I understand the need to get a good return here and you know, push this point forward. I'm not totally against trading Hayward. If you get the right returns, if you get the right contracts, this could make all the sense in the world to push this forward, but if you don't do well here if you get guys that are worse than Hawarden. Yes Turner's are worse higher than Hayward you're in a much worse spot for the next two years. And those are still your Prime contention years with this team and a healthy Hayward still gives you the best chance to win the race two years. That's not worth playing for I keep telling you that's not what you're playing for. I disagree take a step back to take you might have to take one step back to take two steps forward with this team. Okay. Hayward is lost. I believe I believe God. He was going to leave and if he leaves for nothing after this year, you're left with nothing. You'll have to get something of value. Even if it's cents on the dollar. It's actually extremely likely if Danny pulls off a trade that he's going to get significantly less than Hayward. So this notion that you only do it if it works wrong. Also, the Celtics don't have leverage. Everybody knows they've got rid of Hayward or risk losing him for nothing and and they don't want to make three pics. So Danny is not at all dealing from a position of strength. So when they make this deal which they ultimately that will they're going to get something less than Hayward and everyone's going to have to live with it. And that's a I think that's a fact and it's not great. It just is what it is. well, that's why you probably hi why you jumped at the Jewish holiday chance because you know, he's got these topics that they they don't need can't use they may be more valuable to another team if if he's so lucky and that's yeah sure take off college ethics and take ordinary will take your holiday. Even though he's thirty years old. He's a great two-way player. I think he's so underrated that he might be a little overrated now. I mean, I write a little bit lost faith in terms of what you know, one year deal is getting in return. But if your age like John just said, you gotta you gotta get something for him now before you know, I think every day that goes by perhaps you're going and less already you you guys more worried about the camel Walker situation than you were about. I don't know twenty four hours away. That's another one again, you know, we were on here the other day Joe Sway and you know my take was I'm ready to I'm ready to divest of all of my chemical warfare and I believe Danny is going to trade both. I believe I believe they've been looking to trade off. I really do and I and now you've got the other story out there that basically they're just shopping, you know watching them. They're just shopping several Cambodia reporting. The athletic was what that Danny called everybody. I tried to tried to he did have a a good guys everybody and again, nobody knows a lot of this stuff is smokescreen misdirection and this and that but for somebody to say that my vibe is and this is a natural writer. It's not somebody that was fed. This is a guy who talked to a few people most likely and was like, yeah. Danny called me. Danny called me like it the buzz is he's trying to he's trying to shop Kemba. I don't know and if that's the case, that's that's not great either because they're trying to get out from under I think they see what we're worried about these next three years and might be trying to get out from under this thing quick before that value plummets here, that could be part of a game. I also think you're dealing again from a position of non-leveraged. They're like if if they see it and everyone else knows it like, you know sneaking that pass anybody. They're not going to say. Hey, this is the old Jake Walker you're getting and then just try them in there through the don't even give them a physical. Do you guys offer the Celtics a few years ago Bobby? Okay when you're starved for anyone who might be deemed a star and if somebody dangles one for you, it would was the Kyrie situation again, a different story different player at a different point his career in a different age. But Danny would have hey, yeah, we need Stars we need to get better fast and do anything to make a deal for All-Star caliber player. There might be out there who are like friggin the starting point guard on last year's Eastern Conference All-Star team. Yeah f f yeah, I'll do that. I don't have anything like that right now. So you some people would jump at that wage. You think are you hope plus also people will convince themselves or talk themselves into anything if you want to talk yourself into trading for camping because you want to start and you think you can help elevate a lot of people around you and that's a missing piece need you'll figure out a way to not care so much about the injuries in the maintenance and this and that. I don't think he's totally damaged cuz I just think Danny's like let's move, you know, let's move now cuz again, I think requiring pieces to make sure that they have a competitive roster with tradable assets and things that they can do to be able to acquire that third star down the line when you're looking with you paid off and whatever your the whole point is your building this entire team around to step back to happen right now. I got you. That's what I think you're building this team around Jayson Tatum might be a top-five player and I'm building around him and I've got Jalen and I want to attract another one of their Pals in a couple of years to make sure I can do that here the ship sailed on true holiday, of course we go back. That deal and the possible Miles Turner deal and I think of a roster next year that would have looked like Marcus Smart tatem Brown Turner and Jrue Holiday a point guard and I was thinking that team so much choice and last year it is and so you you're right John like they might be moving into a position where they can pivot those kind of players into another deal but you're losing next season all of a sudden and is not worth it actually think I mean have we not seen with this roster that when Tatum and brown are playing at a high level, you can pretty much get to the Eastern Conference Finals regardless of who else is around you. I mean you're doing without Kyrie Irving a truck with all of a sudden dropped off last quarter and saved the day like I just think this is a huge blow to the Celtics because if Emma Walker thought all the way there like like to John's point, this is a huge step back. This is a huge step and you just sign this guy one year ago dead. It's telling me in in a year or two that he won't be remotely who he is now. And then what does that mean for Jason Tatum? This guy is going to you know, lock in a deal next season. What if he's looking at the looking around thinking this isn't the same team. I was going to do a 4 plus 5 now instead of that five the situation I signed up for what have you signed that extension and his old friend from from Brooklyn calls in but the two guys are off contact Kyrie Irving and Tatum now, it's be a lot more like guys. Oh, yeah. It's b l m worried about cuz there's power off. Yeah, and really you're looking around. It's like where can we land next if it works that it's in your if you do the Heat game, you know, if you're Miami and your Dwyane Wade and you're like I got space wage over here. Hang with me. Miami is pretty cool. Great you moved there if not everybody up and goes to LA or goes to Brooklyn they moved together, you know, so you you need that space you need that spot to be Boston wage. The space I've got a roster around me. You just come in here and on your finger a place. You can go out to yeah, you gotta you gotta trade you in 2 seconds. If you do have that so there's going to be one or two follow-up moves here. Cuz John's right. If you do put the Assets in place for that next move bring in a third big guy to play with brown and Tatum consolidate this even more you do it, but you know how it is about to get dealt. There's other guys around the league that are pretty Locked In Like A Bo the Wizards aren't trading deal under any circumstances here. So you've gotta have that next move in mind you want to be in position to make it but you also have to have ideas for you going to do here. I wonder if there's a guy in the draft cuz they're sending this through Thursday that they have their own mindset is the next great player. Maybe it's okay. Maybe it's Killian Haze, but I do find the time of interesting that they they kick this to Thursday. So all of a sudden you could package Hayward and draft picks to move. Up in the draft. I think that's a much more compelling package than just those three pics or maybe Kemba to I mean, they clearly try to use chemical money. They're trying to get holiday. You gotta take on some through Thursday. We're different would sign off on this guy's doesn't doesn't that give you the idea that he's he's in he's in cahoots with this whole thing right whether it's option b or c he's down for either cuz yeah, I think Jose you have to assume I mean are we being naive or maybe where are we seeing that just him coming back is out the window all together. That's what I think you have to assume at this point. It's very clear that I'm going to I want to see what else I can do and they said let's work a sign-and-trade possibility if it's updating would have opted-in. There's no there I think about how I think I think I think I guess I guess options see which seems distant would be theoretically more time for the Celtics in Hayward to work out an extension if that's possible. So maybe that song But I just doesn't seem like it's going that way it seems like it's I want to opt out and test the waters. Well, why don't we just sign and trade will get you your money. Now, you don't have to wait a year on it that's enticing, you know, you have more destinations wage will get you signed ahead of time ship you off to somewhere else and we're good. Maybe I don't know. It seemed like around the league that the acquisition price for things was going down a little bit with that Dennis Schroder deal with the Chris Paul deal which I thought you know the Oklahoma City got a fairly mediocre return the Covington deal in the holiday deal. Yeah unreal so it's like which way is the acquisition cost going to go to stop see it all depends on your needs though Bobby. Yeah. What position are you in Milwaukee has how many first-round picks his Yiannis worth. Do you a hundred? You're not just trading for the players you're trading for Giannis, you know, like it doesn't matter at that point. And again, I've years they'll take somewhere in that vein with the Tatum thing. We're we're not there yet. But the Yiannis threat is imminent. If you're Milwaukee, you would trade your next twenty first round picks. If you knew you could placate him and get him to see if he leaves there's no amount of assets that he that you can make up for. I like a walk he's doing right now to that team got better. That's the other thing we have to talk about. It's another to be honest around for sure. You better hope right? You better hope that's with him that extension but at least for now they put so you're a bucks fan. You better hope that they went to him and said if we do this you'll stay right and he's like, yeah cool cuz if they just did them, they're like, oh he's like it seems strange, you know food usually gets you know what I just cripple their future bend over backwards to placate a star and he's like, I don't know Miami's kind of a cool place to live and gone this one thing. I've learned over the last few years. Is that going to do what they want to do? It doesn't really at the end of the day. I mean, we saw Kyrie Irving go to Brooklyn. We saw Kawhi Leonard go to the Clippers and that was after he wanted damn championship in Toronto, right? If yo, Wants to leave the box of the Box Jrue Holiday on an expiring deal. You're going to keep him in Milwaukee. I mean, I hate to say the books are the Bucks better this year. They are they both should be absolutely maybe they're hope maybe Milwaukee topaz. Hey, we can get to the NBA finals maybe that up to get Ian has to stay, you know, if don't win maybe it's like unfinished business something like along those lines, but are they a much pull out of the trade? Yes, does it mean that Jonas is redesigning their? Hello. You know, it doesn't just write that doesn't mean that I mean, I'm not saying I'm not saying it's it's hurt their chances, but it certainly hasn't it's their job. Now. You see what Milwaukee's doing. You see what Brooklyn did or brooklynite do I mean Danny Ainge isn't going to just sit on his hands. So I'm wondering if that's playing a part in his office calling Jimmy. Yeah. I mean look if if Kawhi Leonard taught us anything it said winning it in the contract of your might actually be a detriment cuz then it's like cool. Thank God. I'm going to go hang out over here. Now. I got my ring and now you've now you've got bigger Box come out of this Champions any leaves. I still think that feeling pretty good about things because the problem was down last year. They weren't even close to being a championship team. Now. They're at least a little closer to that. Yeah. I think this is wired differently though. I think you get the taste of the NBA Finals. He will commit like he was dead. You know what we don't have a lot more advanced or whatever. So what's up with Greeks have honor is what we have and you're honest you have thought about this for a while now that he's a little different that he's not training with these other guys during the off-season and you know Keith Smith reporting now that multiple sources in the league have told them that they're expecting Yiannis to sign that extension this weekend. So we'll keep an eye on it. I mean that was just the way I don't know how he goes off. The other way right? There you go. That's helpful like that. I want to come on here. We got home. It's come to a lot of heart. There were a lot of heartbroken fans in Toronto this week. I'll say that well, they're happy to see you Bobby. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if they're in the same that's move on but it wasn't here is a real quick. Joseph wasn't wasn't on the last video but Campbell was a big topic and I feel like I was you guys against me you guys were like trade, betrayed Kim and off with that Bobby where you on host you? Okay? I mean she felt that we burn a cross. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You're sorry. I was saying I was saying bench him down the street thought he was I thought he was hurting us. I thought he was a detriment, you know, I thought he was I thought he was not I mean he couldn't he couldn't score and he was I thought he was a liability at times. Let's move on. We got another dog. Super interesting thing. I need this. I want to inject this directly into my neck. Like I do not care at all. If if would prevent the Celtics from getting a path to the title hardenberg Durant and Irving has to happen Okay, and right now the latest report quote unquote a verbal agreement in place to send hard to the net so it sounds like again, you know, everyone's talking about hard and yet is Anthony Davis moment here. He forced his tent. I want to go here and that's it. And he was just going to ball and go home if he didn't get it a little different. It looks like he's getting it. Okay, and this interesting here this Dynamic this is I want to watch this for the rest of my life, you know, maybe the first time in a fight each other on the court. I I'm pretty sure yeah Kyrie, by the way, I guarantee publicly big smiles. This is great behind-the-scenes. He's thinking like I thought want this to happen. He doesn't want a friend. He brought here cuz the Nets domestic in one place for people to feel this is my point he put this together I conspired. Yeah, you took the words right out John. This is like you go to you know, like all of a sudden the kid from The New School comes over and steals your best friend away. And by the way, they grew up together they grew up together and they're you know about rekindling an old friendship and you're you and by the way, you already have a hard time making friends and you're like anti-social and all that stuff. So this is not good for you. If that if that's you but that's exactly the kind of wasn't let's do one basketball last night give you if you have hardened Durant and carry on the same team. I don't know. I mean yeah on page. You have an All-Star team, right? I mean clearly but how is that going to work in? How are you who's getting involved in two games? Who's taking the shot who was rolling their eyes who's not making the extra pass who is pounding who's you know saying something in the to the media after after the game and and listen Kyrie Irving's already tried to answer to both questions is Kyrie Kyrie Kyrie and curry comb. I know it's tough, but man I can't wait to watch it on if it's why why I'm going to say, I think she would be the first one to request a trade them when things went wrong like hey in that case, they're so pretty. Well this comes down to how good Kevin Durant's going to be and that is how it always is going to be if he stinks that team's not doing anything out if he's great. They're going to work it out because it requires. Yeah Harden, he's been a six-man Before Christmas Steph Curry so they can work around Irving off. Question is whether everything is good enough, but he's going to be healthy enough to be in that position. And if he's not then they're moving forward with hardened Durant. That's still good enough. Like they're going to put everything in the central situation with this team and then they're going to have to find depth around this. This is I mean, everything's going to make this work because he wanted this remember he's the guy questioning the young players didn't want to Jared earliest. I'm not sure why these guys are not GM's. Okay. This is a freaking nightmare constraint. Nothing around you you get those two pieces the pieces that you know, all the other super easy to grab and able to pull it off like every you know, we see the so many times again, right even if they get that I just think this isn't a situation where what door and walked into and Golden State right? That was an established culture already off a close-knit group. That was so close that it reportedly didn't even even know that he was the best player on that team right? There were wanting right like this. This is really talking about Starting a new culture with their new coach that may handpicks and steam Nash to create an entire culture a winning culture and then bring in someone like James Harden. That's yeah. I don't know. I don't I'm not a betting man. But all of these guys need develops as well when you compare it to the Lakers or a lot of a couple of other, you know, top-notch teams and where they are with their chemistry and how things are going, you know respect to each each top team in the east and west the Lakers. I mean, let me get back to this topic guys. I got to pay some bills first. Okay, we got we got to pay the bills. We have the manscaped our our our sponsor Garden report brought to you by manscaped and we're here to remind you to take care of your biggest grooming and hygiene needs from head to toe package all-in-one manscape performance package kit. So what do you get here? You get the lawnmower 3.0 trimmer, you know what that does for your close shave down there manscape goes One Step wage. Unapproved The Weedwacker your nose and hair trimmer the performance package also includes the crop preserver that's deodorant for down down down low there. You've got the foot duster full feet. You've got manscaped cologne if you want to smell good everywhere Nick gelso bathes in that. It really does Dave's in it bathes in it bathes in it is five hundred square foot apartment. He needs it off. Yeah lots it. He broke sit on his gums on top of everything. It's a we got a shed travel bag and manscaped anti-chafing box off to hold the entire package together. And what do you need to do? What are you guys laughing at? No, I got some read comments by my bed 20% free shipping with the code Garden 20 at manscaped.com 20% free shipping and free shipping with the code Garden 20 at manscaped.com. The weed wacker. That's correct. Larry Powell. That's what have you left. Yeah. That's that's what we got there. So give me you were on. Let me get back to you cuz you were on Harden the hardened situation there. Well, I think the last thing I said was if your heart and why I mean the report is that he turned fifty million turned out fifty million dollars here and he wants to go to Brooklyn so that way he can he can listen to kairi bitch and moan all game. I mean you guys need the ball. I mean it worked out in in in Golden State because of the like you said now you're going into established team and I think their roles were trying to find their style of play fit. If you go to look at the Lakers those styles of play fit and I think you've got LeBron James accepting his role which is still like the alpha male, but I mean, you've got Anthony Davis who knows life and then you've got a group of really good role-players. You want to call it back to the Boston Celtics when that big three formed those were players in the later stages of their you know, they they were they were friends. I believe they're not real and was friends with these guys that one point, you know, they just right off the bat. That's the exception. I don't I don't see these three players in fact Clean with you know, they're you know, B'Elanna it's hard for me to see it all working. I think like how many times we watched it hard and takes the inbound and goes Coast-to-Coast or or or or or shocks up at 3. I mean, how long is that going to sit? Well with with Kyrie Irving. Is that going to sit? Well with the ran who's open in the corner? I mean, I don't know. Well you guys saw that you guys saw that that that tweet I sent you with the NBA 2K, you know, somebody had somebody assembled the team with Irving Durant and hardened at it and it was basically each guy would get the ball dribbled between their legs 15 times pass it to another guy who dribbled between his legs off password to another guy and shoot a step back and test it. That's the offense. They're they're going to feel like they're sharing the ball just by basically. I'm going to get em going to dribble seven seconds. I'm going to give it to you. Now. I feel like I touched it from you know, like there's not going to be movement there. It's an isolation ball-dominant group of guy role players the ball and need everyone to get that F out of their way. Not that the wage. And pass, of course they can but it's just not what they do. Yeah, the situation the situation has some bad signs and it too hard and would be going back to Mike D'Antoni who emboldened lifestyle who's now, of course, the assistant in Brooklyn was actually going to be doing most of the coaching I'd imagine and then you like Jimmy said your role players. So like what are they going to put around these three guys to make glue in meshed together because Yahoo! Swooning about this Houston. They're going to get you know, five to seven first-round picks. It's going to be another Brooklyn type it is and you know, the Nets fans are probably going to be shaking over month after what happened last time and what could possibly have point and you're giving away Ray players. I mean you're taking on another big box. Let's make a mistake are silver Dinwiddie. Those are great players and Jared Allen's our best diner another mistake. You're so right John about these players being the GM there they bring in DeAndre, Georgia. And for double-figure salary when he's way past his Prime and now he's a boy. He's going to be there every day every minute Center. How is that going to work out? I mean, I like these three players. I don't know part and I look and Irving can make this work but man the pieces around them the coaching staff all that stuff concerns and it's going to be awesome. They just want to play like wage. They just want to play like they want to have a fun fun time out there. Do they they want to change over to just want to have a fun time with their friends playing, you know, like pickup style basketball. I don't know. What's interesting too is if their divorce division the style of schedules this year the Celtics going to be playing Brooklyn more than usual. They're going to be playing Philly more than usual and Toronto Rondo interesting schedule. We want all the time. I want to play to run a couple times next year. I think you might I think you might see eight games between these different clubs. We every single one of Toronto fans. I just passed out there. I love to run want to choke awesome fence kind of plan. I can't believe they haven't satellite here. You don't even need a passport office over there playing New Jersey. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, right whoever wins the season series between the Raptors and Celtics gets bobby. Okay, that's it. You just get Javi. Okay, like post-game interview like Tatum going all this and that box. We got you the word man after this. I'm going to give Bob Manning his Celtics draft minute. And now we do have Isaac okoro as a name and Bobby you wrote about this both on Osceola honest media in Boston Sports Journal you talk to him you think this the guy that could be looking to trade up to try and get right now most mocks have it may be as high as six but somewhere in that eight to ten range. So there's some thought you'd have to trade up to about seven eight to have a shot to get them their birth. Is this a guy you like if they go up there? Is it worth all the pics and a guy like Hayward if this is the prize coming back or you like some other players too, but just talked about this a little bit and also anybody listening right now, If you want to ask any questions or throw some comments in we'll try to get to him in the last ten minutes here before we wrap it up. Well, of course you talk about your two steps back for step forward approach. He's that kind of guy. It's going to take some time for your shot to develop I'd imagine but yes everything else. I mean the the physical tools this guy's coming in and league with a pretty rare is 225 pounds already. He's got the same physique as Jimmy Butler Andre Iguodala and Jaylen Brown and he's 19 which is which is stunning like yeah. I mean, I wrote that in the story. I was like this guy's only nineteen nineteen years. So yeah, I'm excited about him the interesting thing that's going to happen here as you watch the draft tomorrow. Is that who who's going to go to the Cavaliers and number five? They like Acora they like, oh be tough and yep. I'd any that's a lot of ways that they could go there and I think you could potentially see whoever they don't pick their side to that. Number 10 number nine spot that we talked about last week that the Celtics need a better chance of moving up to so, you know, I'm looking at Kevin O'Connor's Mark right now. He still has Killian Hayes Isaac okoro at 9 and 10. I think that's still feasible trade up range for the South especially now the Phoenix already got Chris Paul and is staying at number ten. I thought last week the Phoenix would need a trade that number 10 pic to get Paul and they have it sells so I don't think it's a huge drawback Phoenix to jump back to fourteen take some assets from the Celtics and maintain themselves because they they're out of cap space now after this Paula situation, so they need to get some players and pick some cheaper contracts back. If you looking for the Celtics to move up. I think it's going to be that number 10 spot and the guys either going to be Isaac okoro or Killian. Hey, so I know Joe sway likes to those are the two guys in the Strath. I look at it and say hey I'm back. Be next great players in this league. Yeah, just way any draft thoughts here before we move on will take a couple of copies would pretty much is that that 14 Pig? I mean if the Saudis have to we'll see if he's available. But I mean, I don't know. I think it's something to do their best to trade up but I just you just don't have the leverage in the favor seems like but maybe maybe one of these teams a hop on I mean, the only another team has an option is a juice bar as we do not doing a whole month whole lot of moving out there, you know, they're they're outside the the top ten. Yeah, you know, Jimmy Jimmy loves the draft. Jimmy will let you talk about it a little bit know. I I mean, my whole thing is my own thing is this trade as many of these pics as you can I mean if if you have to trade into next year's draft to delay it then then go for it. I mean the last thing doesn't we know that the subjects need a key role players. That was the big knock on them going into the playoffs is what stepped they had a great starting lineup and and even when Kemba wasn't performing. Well, you still like their chances every game, but they lacked the name. And that is due to some Port some poor drafting over the last few years. But I mean if you can open up some roster spots for some for some low money veterans that can actually come in and give you ten twelve minutes fifteen minutes off the bench. That's what I'm really interested in JD Becker Eye on this draft. Oh, that's a big Bobby exactly. What are the chances? You think the sons would actually consider or think about bringing in one of these top point guards because it's so Kemba Walker reports have any concerns. So now I'm thinking is Damien in the market for a for a backup point guard a prospect or someone that can plug in right away. That's the move if you stay at fourteen, I think and I hate it could be that we point guy. I don't know if he's ready for that yet. But there are a number of those point guards available at fourteen Kira Lewis. I'm Anthony guy that can lead in offense. So yeah, I think that's the direction of going if they stay at 14 even Tyrese Maxey from Kentucky is kind of a combo guard they need help. They I don't think Brad Wanamaker who's going to be off any one of the top ten. You don't know that's a good thing about this draft of the Celtics I guess is that those guards are probably going to be there fourteen. I don't think any of the best point guards and the brakes are going high except lamelo ball, and I'm not huge homo above wrong and 14. Let's take a couple of questions. Just get me wrong. It's a lock to get a good player 14 couple of questions here. There's a lot of Steven Adams talk. I don't know about Hayward for Steven Adams, but that's only move with them. Yeah, yeah, I'm out on that, you know, you know another one people like a lot this I mean this is one of those what if you talk this guy off and this guy and this guy and and tice and you and all of these guys for LeBron like a trade-off payment, you know, Donovan say this that could get mrs. Robinson may be dead if it gets it if it gets to the point where Tatum wants to leave or whatever like you guys just said, oh what if he wants to meet up with peel and you have no choice you have to try to build around Brown Donovan Mitchell is a guy that it sounds it looked like him and brown were very tight in the bubble. So I'm I'm dating age. I'm pivoting and building around Jaylen Brown and bring it in Donovan Mitchell. Where I'm going to go with that but you hope it doesn't come to that point because obviously J J Stables the guy that you that you really want to build a strong this out there. Just I think there was a tough. I don't know about the for pick up here, but there was a talk about the Bulls being one of the teams that inquired about Kemba Walker. This would be interesting here. What if you could move up that high for Kemba? Know who scores in the Celtics who's going to be your boobs? But let's go over this one step backwards to step forward. We keep saying this this position is too important job and what they've been blessed to have three pretty good. Pretty damn good point guards the last few years for the last four years. How about this one? I don't know. I don't know who this is. Brandon Robinson. Brandon Robinson. Oh, hey, it's from from heavy.com. One of my people. What are your guys? All right Jokes wait. You got to answer this one heavy day. You got listen. Everybody's got a source right now. I can't imagine the Celtics hard enough job. He's monitoring the situation as they say right when he was monitor in Phoenix for Isaiah monitoring Charlotte for Kemba. You know, I don't know what this is Anthony Davis sort of situation here. Okay, he wants to go one place, but the Celtics again if they want a Klingon would absolutely throw Jaylen Brown Marcus Smart and all the pics that you have a nice addition a Futures if you wanted for Hardin, theoretically and you think someone else can match that I don't think anyone else can match that then it's a matter of whether off Ever watch another freaking game if James Harden is on the Celtics and they weren't you going to be what's it going to be? Why the hell would Harden want to play with nobody? Well, I wouldn't be up to them. It's the same dealership why we Davis want to come here and play with nobody if we didn't hurry, you know was a safe. He wouldn't John that's why I didn't hard and sign for more years. So that's the case. There is not an expiring like Davis but I don't like a team of paid them Harden them. I mean, I don't know how they mesh. I don't think there's enough around them. Yeah. I don't see it. Tatum could be better if all goes according to plan isn't Tatum supposed to be better than hard and you gotta build. One step backwards to step forwards. I keep saying it. I think that that's the key this year guys like bouncing Johnny is holding on this page Harden. I'm I'm stunned that the Seventy Sixers last 24 hours. It's bananas. I'm so glad we didn't do this show last name is so much stuff happen today. Yeah. Hey, I'm standard the Seventy Sixers aren't in on hard. And I don't know if anyone else is cuz that seemed like the perfect destination like they require you're right that makes sense because ducats a superstar and they break up that stupid big man, you know, like going to start to take a hold for sure. So let me that Chicago situation the Celtics actually reached out to the Bulls about that and got shut down seems like so that's kind of the situation there with the bulls and cambi which tells you a little something about what canvas value might be right now. But yeah, that's what KOC said on the radio this morning. I'm not playing the i-told-you-so card. I'm telling you in the last show that we did I said, I think they're trying to get out from Kemba and you over me and said that's crazy. He's an All-Star and I'm telling you I believe they're looking everywhere to see and I think what they're trying to do is to because all the writing on the wall to me here says step back to take a step forward wage. Get younger and build for a couple of years from now into that little window cuz that's what you need. You need. You gotta build golden state you missed. Okay, you miss fired a little bit. You got half of it, but you got 50 building it. You can't do it with high-priced talent. You have to get rid of Hawarden cambon find a way to get younger and better and hope you have then and then your formula is this it's Tatum become mvp-caliber Jaylen Brown continues at his level and you hit with a third guy somewhere whether it's acquiring from another team or or draft pick that third study. That's the only way you get off cuz you're not going to get it with just this high-priced talent that they have around them now in their 30s at the time when you need it, you might have a one-year window, but that's it. I agree with that John but you got an email those two trades like you just can't solo on the other option. You can run it back next year a pretty good shot at winning at all next year this year. I think I'm not I mean, I think you think so Joe sway off at this point because you want to get fleeced if you trade. Yeah. I don't think you sacrifice a realistic Championship season run for a mediocre return. You gotta get something down here. And listen, you still may have two years with this group. If you can sign Hayward to where you know, two or three year extension doesn't seem likely at this point. But you know, I I think the run it back I think there's still a case for running it back. I'm with your sweat. If everybody in last last thing I'll say here now, of course, you have misfires. You've got Romeo you've got the lower half of the draft range didn't get hit of all you gotta do is has absolutely hit in the top five or top top bit of the draft. Okay, Jaylon was a question mark and it ended up being absolutely worth it. Tatum again was a risky giving away the number one pick and it's a hit are okay Marcus Smart, even at 6, it's hard to argue that they could have done a ton better there like like how he doesn't top six. So look if you're looking like that is the track record and you believe Danny sees a guy at 4 that he thinks is a Cornerstone building peace at that point. How do I plan on in Danny? I trust on that one too me too and wage. That's why I would view it as a at this point you put the faith in the man to try to do what he's done before and that's one thing he has been successful at we lost Jimmy, but that's one thing he's been successful at I would be willing to see us try it again because you really do need a lottery ticket to hit I think to get to that next level what we're going to find that out tomorrow. I think that's why they push this back to Thursday. They have all the flexibility in the world tomorrow. Now if they find a Destiny the hard part is going to be making three things come together hayward's desire for the destination the Celtics. I happy return from the other team and the other team being happy about taking on page. That's a lot of sides to make happy. But now they have the chance to do that tomorrow. Yeah, the and there's another thing about there's more stuffs flooding into wage most have to jump ton of Interest. I want to tell everybody at home two things. Okay, and I have to we get a again pay some bills here, but I want to tell everybody again about the sponsor which is let me pull up the graphic here manscaped 20% off free shipping Garden 20 use the promo code. Thank you Josh way you've done many reads many a man's K. Four years before I want to tell everybody again a programming note. Okay. So here's what we're doing. Tomorrow. NBA draft is tomorrow night. We're going to jump in at around maybe 6:00 or so pre-draft. What time is it? Start Bobby 7:30, you know what I take it back. We're probably going to jump on it. Seven take you right up to the draft the beginning of it 7:30. Okay, then we're going to disappear for a little bit as soon as something happens Celtics trade up any sort of movement weird. Jump back on and we're going to keep you updated. Okay, and we're going to be doing this all night long throughout the draft for whatever happens. If we think something is interesting or there's some Buzz or there's some movement or the Celtics make a move or they make a cake in a pic where they're supposed to make up. We're going to jump up we're going to talk about it and we'll be doing that all night at the end of the night. We'll do a wrap-up will bring you Danny ainge's post-draft press conference or there's tons of stuff off ceiling as media. So keep it with us all day tomorrow. And again if there's anything that happens during the day again, obviously, we'll keep you updated subscribe to our YouTube channel as well for all these jobs live shows that were doing and in addition to any sort of updates and videos will have a ton more coming out tonight Bobby Manning writing about the draft. He's got a mock draft coming out tomorrow, correct? Yep, first thing in the morning. I don't want a mock draft. We'll see what happens Bobby. I encourage you to put trades in it cuz that's going to be the juicy stuff. But you might have to write this thing like eight times between now and then that number one. There's a lot of heat about that number one job. Moving. Yeah, I think Minnesota's pushing it hard. Nobody has any clue what's going to happen to really interesting draft. There's a lot of potential pieces moving frenetic off-season already underway. So thanks for joining us for Jimmy Joseph. Who's no longer here. We miss him already. Heavy, Bobby Manning Celtics beat clns media even some Boston Sports Journal contributions. Get up there right now. So go read it. We will see you guys tomorrow. Thanks for joining.

Hayward Celtics Gordon Hayward NBA Danny Bobby 20% Kyrie Irving Tatum John Jimmy Hawks Brooklyn Milwaukee Kawhi Leonard Thon Rondo Kathy Walker Tuukka Hayward two years
Gordon Hayward OPTS OUT of Celtics contract

The Garden Report | Boston Celtics Post Game Show from TD Garden

56:48 min | 2 weeks ago

Gordon Hayward OPTS OUT of Celtics contract

"Um for what was Gordon Hayward decision day waiting to see the meter running and yep here we are went went people are joining the stream. So let's just get into your life freaking out. Let's get everybody. Let's get into everything first will tell you what man escapes gotta get that stuff 20% off free shipping code garden garden 20 minutes. Keep. Cong our sponsor for this show all Garden reports this week brought to you by manscaped but the big news is and now we know it now we know it's Gordon Gone. Gone Gordo guns. Oh there it is opted out of the final year of his deal becomes a free agent. And now there's a massive freak out on Twitter. But first we're going to get into it off Enterprise you're saying that John what that he's gone. I mean you've been big on the next trip right now. I'm not saying that Gordon Hayward opt-out. Okay. Everybody is dead. Was that means Gordon he was going to leave and he's going to go sign elsewhere. It's not necessarily the case realistically there are still several options on the table which includes an extension with the Celtics which was always in play and possibly is something that they're talking about and also a sign-and-trade to a preferred destination. What this does is this opens up the possibility that tomorrow when free agency begins Gordon Hayward can leave and go sign somewhere else. It's something he couldn't do prior to today. So the only thing that's changed is he could sign somewhere else tomorrow if that was the case or that was what he wanted to do. We've talked about this from the beginning he could have opted out on Tuesday not done an extension known that he was going to sign in Atlanta or New York and been happy with that. Obviously. He wants something else and that's either to have the Celtics come to the table with a better off than they were offering to extend him or to get a sign-and-trade to a preferred destination. So it appears options A and B for Hayward if those in fact are the options are still in play, I still think the dispatch. Option is the Knicks or Hawks, which if you wanted to could have had it like that and didn't have to do any of this and we've argued about it the last couple of days that I think a little of this is fabricated by the Hayward Camp throwing out these smoke signals here to get the Celtics a little bit panicky. It was Atlanta and this is the latest in the line that stuff we didn't bite in Atlanta yesterday. And then the New York thing comes out today. I believe that those are planted stories. Not only is New York interested. They've been interested all week. According to the leading cap space wage exact Jimmy start with you and let's let's get our initial reactions here. Well initial reaction is just I think a little bit of disappointment little bit of frustration. I know a lot of Celtics fans, even a lot of my friends have text me like what the hell just happened like what you know, what can we expect to see here? I think we still are almost just as clueless as we were yesterday with how this ends up because of all the situations. You just mentioned John. I mean is there is there a benefit to re-signing Gordon Hayward and bring back the band sort of speak? Yeah. I think there is based on what we've seen when he is healthy. But if you know, it's over here in Boston with Gordon Hayward and I haven't heard that and I don't know who has off then the Celtics are going to try to exhaust all their options. Now, I saw Mark Steyn tweet that the Indiana Pacers were apparently talking about being involved in your trade. So maybe that option is still there. But Gordon hayward's, you know, this is free agency. It's not as first free agency. He knows what to expect tomorrow when when the clock hits and and I'm sure he'll take all the calls and his agent will take all the calls and log Any age will be very involved too with what's going on. Because listen the last thing you want is for the Celtics to end up with absolutely zero out of this just turns into a three-year contract for Gordon Hayward all three years of wage where you know, essentially waste of season. I mean the third year was the best year but even injuries came into play there too. So, I mean, I'm pretty pretty tough nothing because when you said you did nothing cuz he wasn't he wasn't available at the end of the season in the middle of the files again, we're not going to blame people for injuries But ultimately you got nothing out of Gordon Hayward. If you leave nothing it's going to go down as one of the most failed nothing you got nothing trades. I mean, I can't disagree with that more the Celtics were the four seed in the East know it's a it's a plan for Life Bobby. That's loser fan for ya division titles Bob. Are you playing for people talking about the Celtics? Not even making the playoffs or Bill? Not playing for that. This was a super team. And and do you remember that? Do you remember the expectations going into last year. Like seven or eight you you remember a year off that rainy and Hayward that year was a long be crazy when he was he was a ginormous reason the team was so successful if they were a tick if they if they survived one extra round beyond what experts thought they were going to get this year. It's no expectations are much lower zero you get zero out of Hayward. I just don't know what it is about. This guy think it's the fact that he came in with these expectations that he was going to be the frontman. The thirty-four million dollars is attached to his name what happened happened. It's a sunk off and he still finds a new role on this team and becomes great becomes the biggest Edge and becomes the reason that they were a true Championship Contender last year. It's all those things are true. But also true it just didn't go the way anybody wanted it but it's still one pretty good last year didn't go but it could but when it mattered most did it go pretty good. He got hurt, but I know none of it matters. It doesn't matter. It's not we're not blaming Garden see Bobby. We're having two different conversations. The the the all the crap that Garden got for not living up to expectations and thirty million and not being a superstar or taking a long time to come off that injury. That's one bucket the other bucket is that the end of the day. The donuts what you're left with is nothing gnome. No flexibility. Nothing to show can't understand getting a little bit farther than people thought they were going to get last year big freaking deal. Okay, it's not his fault. He sprained his ankle at the end. And if he didn't right now we could be talking about the Celtics made it all the way to the finals. They didn't so the end result of what you got the net result off of Gordon a zero the fear, you know leaves if if he leaves and the only reason that will be the case if he leaves is because the Celtics are making a ginormous mistake and not paying one of the what I believe is what, Thirty thirty-five best players in the NBA. This guy's one of the best wings in the league when he's healthy when he's rolling. He just had the most efficient. He just had the most efficiencies and a player who's ever had a his usage rate. He's drilling three for them. He's playing making he's read this guy's invaluable and if the Celtics look at this and don't pay his market price, what are you doing? People should be mad at the song. Six right now another Horford last year. Okay. Here's here's the irony of this whole thing. Okay, Danny Ainge, we're killing horror. We're killing hor-hay word for not living up to his Thirty million dollar salary. And now we're going to kill Danny for not paying him Thirty million more. I mean which which way is it here. We've got to figure out what it is. We think of Gordon Hayward. Are you giving him Thirty Something million dollars a year for the next four years guaranteed Thirty one years old when he hasn't stayed healthy once we're going to if you do that now Bobby two years from now we could be looking and say what the hell was a nice doing here. Well, what are we looking at now? You gotta take losses and the laws you got to take with Hayward here is you gotta trade them for cents on the dollar you sign and trade to his preferred destination doesn't matter that we hate Myles Turner. I don't or when you live with less. It's and took a loss. So be it I'm down for that situation here. But if we're going in the direction of just losing Hill right or getting a true age. Player exception back. This is a disaster. And we're looking at two prime years of Jayson Tatum Jaylen Brown at the very least. I would say just lost and that's a disaster. You had a situation here where you had four All-Star players together a core ready to win a championship now and it doesn't feel like they're prioritizing this moment. You you can do your you can change your plan John. Yeah, you can move on move on you tell you cut your losses at this point, but guess what you're risking it all cut your losses by overpaying him because you think you're desperate because you're trying to hang on for one project you cut your losses you make a sign-and-trade you go get somebody you don't love so you don't leave with zero because that's what they have if he walks 000 so make I agree with that and I agree with that I have no I think your first priority is trying to get a deal done. Look at Al Horford 1 year into it off. Oh, jeez, we could not Market in Hayward too much different players. I know but he's gone. I mean one year later the team that signed him to that deal that the Celtics wouldn't sign him issue was like, holy shit. I gotta get rid of this guy. So I mean this is the risk by overpaying you have to stick to your guns and pay people what you think they're worth not get. Oh my God, the Celtics didn't do that with Horford. They rallied at the last second and try to make every move possible to pay him keep him and match that Philadelphia offer. So that's not what they're doing here. I still believe they're trying to keep Hayward. It's just what's the dollar price going to be he's using leverage as you say with legitimate interest from the Knicks and Hawks. The Celtics are trying to keep this at a fair price wage because they want him but not at something a hundred thirty million like with the Horford situation and then this other teams out here that want him, but also a trend I'm not everything and I'm not comparing wage. Players, I'm comparing the situation which is the Celtics of assigned a value to Hayward. And that's what it is and they assigned a value to Horford and that's what worked for them. Not the same player and the people on the stream here who can't understand a nuanced argument. That's not what it is. What I'm saying is you're not going to all of a sudden think this is what he's worth to me and then off of that because you're desperate if it gets to that you have no choice but to sign-and-trade and that's what it is what we're saying is if they let him walk because Danny won't take a loss on a deal that's where they're going to age. That's the big mistake and then they're not going to do that at the very least. They're going to get an exception here. He is not going to leave for nothing. And the reason is because the Knicks Hawks they can rather than having the same salary every year front load this a little bit where they're going to be taking player reductions and leave less money on the back end of the studio. So there is a minor incentive for the Hawks Knicks teams that he can go home. You outright to do a sign-and-trade for a player except at the very least now again, my dad I'm not going to be I'm not going to be thrilled if it's just an exception like, you know, we stepped off. Okay, what movie what? What's the price that works for you at this selfish? You're going to re-sign. Hey, what's the number? I've said from the beginning. They should sign him to a 3 year 70 million dollar deal. Okay, Hayward. We're just went over this. We just went over this Hayward is far better off than Al Horford younger more in different markets are you know and Al wouldn't take that. So you think Hayward is three years younger he's going to take that deal. So let me and now that's working for now. We're on opposite sides. I don't think the Hawks the Knicks are going a hundred thirty. This is the pandemic. This is Bri is down 30% this real money at play here. I mean James dead. One's probably losing money out of the pockets right now. He's not giving 132 Hayward. We're talking about talking about Tony. But yeah, we're talking about somewhere between sixty and eighty million dollars here. We're cutting back. There's like this isn't going to keep sky-rocketing to the highest level and you know why we're pushing this back two days now because there's not a deal there that Hayward likes he's still searching on every different price. Yes. We we are in agreement on that Bobby. I think Atlanta and New York is bullshit smokescreen floated by the Hayward Camp if you wanted any would have opted out if the money was their destination. I think they were Jitsu during the Juke. He's trying to joke his way to our preferred destination or get the Celtics to re-up and so we using his leverage here. So do we should I'm a little different than that. I think they're legitimate suitors, but they have a maximum price. They're willing to go to it's probably above Boston's right now, but I don't think it's a point box and can't get over what if we learned off. Free agency Bobby. Okay. It's for real though. I mean, this is the thing everybody has again. I'm going to use the Al Horford comp. Everybody has a a dollar value of what they think some team would would would want to pay somebody and it's always way higher than that. Okay always way higher we're always wrong. The market is set by one team and you have one song desperate franchise like Atlanta, for example, that isn't able to lure big-name big-ticket free agents. They're very often. They get one shot at it they overpay because at least you have the asset, you know, you got do something with that money. So you use it. So it takes one team I wouldn't be stunned if they did drop that. I just don't think Hayward really wants to go there. I think he's floating the interest because he wants to be home. Cuz again, logically you would have dropped it out and gone just Preferred Choice to go to Atlanta to New York. He wouldn't know it's not And what about the luxury-tax the laundry sign Hayward mean you're talking sixty million or whatnot. I mean it's going to be way more for bus and if they're if they're the ones locking them up and they're saying it here. This is interesting to New York Fred vanfleet, you know is somebody that they're talking about you've heard you've heard Atlanta a few different people. There is a situation where Gordon gets left out in the wilderness with those teams sign other people without a deal so you don't really know. I mean, it could be a risk for him to you know, it is interesting. I mean you're talking about, you know, Bobby talking about covid-19 stuff. I mean teams are even less wanting to go into that luxury tax scenario and now because of the income that they're not making typically I mean, so I think his part of the plate off the Celtics thinking to hear It's a say that there's nothing there's no deal that they can get to that keeps them below the tax you the key word with the tax or lose him and not pay it. I don't think that's going to be the holding up point between wanting to keep him and getting rid of him here. And now I do think the bigger concern here that we've talked about multiple times on this show is splitting him up into medium-sized salaries which still makes Indiana that desirable destination for him what we have to point out too and and In fairness to Gordon because we're not talking about it enough right now. There's a lot of vitriol here on the on the chat and on Twitter get it because the feeling is we've been spurned again, you know, the Kyrie did it Al did it now the vibe is Hayward did it what we don't know is hayward's number one intention right now. He's very well could be an opt-out re-sign with the Celtics and that's always been the plan and it's numb and it's by far as number one priority. They just don't have it figured out yet. That could be it. Yep. Could be they could be doing the Belichick thing letting him test his Market a little bit. See what's out there and say, okay, we'll get you close to that. I mean, yeah, it's a player option possible that the whole thing is really him that right now they're basically laughing at people like us screaming about him leaving when this is an intense negotiation and three very well could be let's let's make this work and he might want to get more than anything else and and wants to stay. I'm not going to call it a bad guy, but the person who might be pushing harder might be Danny here and so we have to you know, you gotta entertain that possibility as well. Yeah, but I mean if he dominated for three years in Boston and another world, let's say I mean, he probably helps out to the same way. He did now just looking for a a better DRS our fans going to have the same reaction at home. I think there's a lot of animosity because of the way those three years have gone and it's just kind of piling it on but I mean players put player options into their contracts all the time and they use them very often for this exact reason God. Look what look what goes around now now that he has the chance to leave out right and leave them stranded. Everybody's freaking out when two weeks ago. It was dumped them for nothing get rid of him. He's useless. I mean a pile on with him has been ridiculous over these last three years. And where does it tell you that now that he has a chance to leave people are concerned this guy with a real valuable piece for this team for many years and they'll only realize that when he's gone. Oh, give me a break. Yeah, I wouldn't go that it could have been Bobby but it's not fans aren't that hayward's tenure is going to be remembered wage. Grizzly injury a year plus of not even being close to right and then not being ready in the playoffs in order one, two, three, that's it. Nothing else. No one am hanging-out know what's going to remember the beginning of this taking you to make an All-Star level that's not part of the resume that that's all it is because it's got to pick and choose that that's true. You bring you brought him here not to play. Well in freaking November and December one year you brought him here to take you to another level. It didn't happen. This is the reality that's his legacy here. Grizzly. Andre couldn't stay healthy wasn't there when he needed him never got him over the top left we can add. That's the only other thing that gets to this resume unless he opted unless he re-signs and then we see what we go. And for God's sake maybe plays one frickin healthy year so we can actually see how good he is at basketball and how valuable he could be to his team cuz you've we've owned Seen it ever for two months at a time. Every Tire every time the game got rough. Wait till Haywood comes back. You're down 3-1 in that Miami series up Hayward off back. There's a hope he wins them a game there and he struggles the rest of the way coming back to early from the two weeks early from that injury, but guess what? Everybody was saying he was going to leave the bubble and go be at the breadth of his bout. Everyone was freaking out waiting for that and he didn't he took a stand he got in that he played two weeks later and what that's commendable. It doesn't change his wage doesn't change his story here, which was it's not whether it's not just you go ahead Jimmy know it's it's nothing personal. It's just that's just how it works ended up. It's shity for him. It's j page. It should have a Celtics fan. But Bobby you have to understand people aren't breaking down the game film and seeing what Gordon Hayward did well when he was healthy, I mean, that's something that like you're capable of doing and you know, a lot of basketball journalists are our cable. Yep. Like the average fan they want to know whatever you done for me lately. Why aren't you out there playing the best ability is availability all those things. But what about the possibility of him being healthy going forward? That would be great. And now the question is that is a possibility. Yes, if we knew numbers we could make this argument right now. I can put it out a hypothetical here if it's 3 and 75 and the Celtics are barking at that. I think that would be a mistake if hayward's looking for four and a hundred and twenty. You've got to discuss I think will not something I think you might know something I think what the same thing we thought so, you know, that's where we are. You know that that was basically again, the used Horford is an example that was roughly the difference. We're talking 3 and 64 L and he gets this monster deal and you're like, wow those weren't the numbers were talking about. We don't know what Hayward was their boss is going to decline one in 34. That's gotta mean he thinks he's getting close to 25 to 30 per year. All right, let me explain that one too, because this is now people are freaking out over the Thursday. 434 could have been twenty-two this year very like the amount of meal money that players are going to lose this year's absurd and this is another thing people have to consider players can lose 40% of their contracts issue with the escrow Holdings. So you have to get a multi-year deal. If you're Gordon Hayward, you have to get money in 2022 and 2023 when that money's actually going to be more guaranteed. It would have been insane for him too often to one year given his injury history and the amount of money that he was going to lose this year. So there was never a chance he was going to opt into this month not to mention the fact that they could have just dealed them anywheres a great expiring contract if he did that there is a chance to opt into it. If you don't think there is a chance Bobby he could have opted in but you should automatically we understand what he's looking for. Yeah. We nobody's looking for security. You think a guy like that wants to play on a one-night deal? Yeah injury history. I mean of all guys. All right, no one cares about your name. We can talk about enes Kanter the rest of the way. Hey, I have some big Celtics news here that just came you guys want to hear it. Yeah Celtics have extended qualifying offers to tackle fall and Bobby's guy Tremont Waters Edge. Oh, so how about this one? This is the an interesting one on the Hayward front. The Celtics declined to make Brad Wanamaker restricted free agent that seemed obvious to me after they really change after they took two players yesterday including a guard. I mean, it's a numbers game. They're still taught they bring him back for Less. I hope so because if you're just letting him walk without even the wage they lose Hayward outright like we talked about here. We're talking about bringing him back. Yeah when you want to make your back, but if he's an unrestricted free agent now there's real interest in want to make around the league. I would say. Oh, yeah, We got one leg had a good year. Oh, yeah, and he well no, nevermind overseas isn't really an option this year. Yeah. We got Cantor also, there's a rumor that he's involved in the Portland deal. Dementia, we'll see about that. There's another rumor to the Knicks have been interested all week other rumor Indiana very much alive for Hayward. So we're still here and stuff. I have been on on the Twitter machine and a little wild guys anything new coming across here. Now things are dead quiet. And this is the other a lot of Gordon Hayward slander the Twitter just freaked out when that song came across. So this is this is the other big difference between the Horford situation. If I remember this correctly did in Philadelphia rise as a Suitor pretty quickly after he declined that option off and fill out Horford came out of nowhere It came it was it came out and it was done. Yeah. So you don't quite have that here. There's a lot of smoke and noise and stuff gets into the media. Thought you said John because of Leverage points and you have three sides talking legroom hear the Celtics those teams that don't want Hayward to go through the roof and don't forget these sign and trade Partners assign a game. It does have to be three years want to keep the price low there as much as they can. So if there was a obvious outcome to this things would be awful more quiet. I've been instead. You're just hearing about all different stuff funny is I go back to the notion that I think still possibly option A is I'm still trying to work out the extension and this in fact is as simple as they're like well opt out and we'll just keep going down here, you know, so I think it's just way to go. That's the easiest way to go. It's definitely the only option at this point since he wasn't you know, what's funny is and here's here's here's what I find interesting. But I was it for so long. Why was it considered by everybody that the smart money was on Hayward opting in to the point that we're like well, duh. That's what he dead. To do and then it changed immediately to there's no freaking way he would often. Why would he do that? Like it was all season long everybody and again, I know kovich and things but like back in a month leading up to it was like, well you have to Hayward thing but he's obviously going to opt-in what changed their Bobby. I think a number of different things. I think it through there like 34 is a big number. So he's going to take it. Yeah that was part of it. I think he had a good season leading up to the injury. So I think people should be before that said. Oh, well, he's going to take that joke cuz there's you know, a lot of uncertainty and he may not get anything close to that at this rate and then the way things play it out and then and I think a lot of things we didn't we didn't realize you know, the the business side of the NBA contracts and taxes and all this stuff and which teams are going to be available for and you know, who's going to have interest we didn't really think about all that the luxury tax is real and I know that Celtics numbers until you see what they signed for but we were talking about this right before we were again the stream and anybody out there who saw the news Kelly oubre was traded to Golden State. Okay Golden State prior to the deal of $66 million dollars in the hole on the luxury-tax. Okay, who bring makes $14 million-a-year ubre is going to add 6 a.m. Eight million dollars more to Golden State Slayer repeaters. They are essentially paying Kelly oubre eighty million dollars this year. That's how punitive the tax is when you're up in the stratospheric numbers. And again, they make enough here and there are some teams that don't give a crap about it. But Kelly oubre basically is costing Golden State eighty freaking million dollars a year the Warriors the tax and a half the Warriors are so intriguing because Titans tax was bad. They both they built the stadium where you had to pay a $50,000 tax to get on the season ticket list just to own those seats and then you have to pay the season ticket price after so, you know, that's San Francisco economics out there the repeater tax of the killer to there in the gas tax out there. It's absurd but the Warriors are doing here to try to keep this dynasty alive, but you know, the Celtics aren't in the repeater tax range yet. It's something to consider going forward, but hopefully dead. NBA to will be considering the cost of this luxury tax saying they kept it this year. I think they give a little more relief if things stay tough and coming season satine's I got a comment from a fellow Greek a fellow down on the board here that may be what hayward's doing right now is he's just writing his article for the athletic thanking Boston before he it's just it's not Faith being snotty. I get up at Madison Square Garden. Thanks Robin hates. You now go ahead Bobby. I hear me on this. I mean Gordon's he would roll with the Celtics. You know that Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, we're going to take an increased role. You know that, you know if Kemba Walker isn't going if he's not going anywhere. He's gained a lot. He's taking a lot of shots. It gets to the point where Gordon Hayward is most likely going to be your fourth option at best next season. At what point do you say this guy's as a fourth option, we can't pay this guy this much money. If we want to, you know, Shore up our bench if we want to spend money out elsewhere or focus on guys like take off the future. I mean is he essentially? I know he's not a role player. But is he trending in that direction on this team? And is that part of the reason why the Celtics might be hesitant to re-sign him at twenty-five thirty thousand million dollars a year and then you turn into like the Detroit Pistons where you paying an exorbitant amount of money for just a bunch of role players. See the role player thing gets tough because it insinuates a he's a minimal part of the team. But your guy who's going the bench together who is meshing a lot of your star played together and our contract with Dallas as as as important as anybody else on the roster and you saw that against that was not making that money though. He was making significant money and Golden State energy-wise of the of the capital. I mean, yeah, I moved the same. It's it's it's different situations. But the the problem is for the Celtics. They're not deep down. So why we freaking out if you leave you got nothing left after him, you know, nothing but let's let's look at this look at it another way. Gordon Hayward also left the Jazz and they did pretty well for themselves pretty shortly after Gordon Hayward left before they would you mind hitting a homerun off and Jayson Tatum. I say it hurts in they they hit they hit in her Naismith. Don't maybe I Renee Smith becomes that guys would expect to that was an unbelievable turnaround when you're literally were like, holy shit. This guy we picked up at 13 is literally one of the top twenty players in the NBA, you know, like they got excellent, So I'm I'm not married to bring in Hayward back as you speak about Jimmy if you do a trade here, that's good. That's quality. I like the Indiana your idea. You can have some depth on this roster. You can offer flexibility going forward and I still think you can be pretty good next year. So I'm not I'm not going to freak out if he's not on the team next year because they do a sign-and-trade here. You just have to position yourselves to be in a dog. Spot to win next year because this teams in that place and you can't you can't take Championship contention years for granted because you think something's going to be in place in 2024. What did we say with the 2019 team this team is built to go to twenty twenty-five next year. They were gone. Like you just don't know again. If you sign Tatum to a max deal. I keep saying the same thing over and over again, you're looking at 2023 as the time when you need to be well-positioned cuz it's going to be the last year of Jalen's current deal and the clock starts ticking on Tatum. And that's you need to be ready to attempt to have it all. I do not want their you're not selling out for the future and tying yourself up with things that you don't want beyond that portion of time. Okay. I really think that I think that that's one of the issues there too. And you could be stuck between three and four year deals. I I don't believe they're looking at a job. Window closing when your two best players are 22 and 23. Well, you know news practically your Windows 8 years long as long as you can keep them here and build around them off to do it tomorrow. Yep. Yep. So, this is Mark Murphy hayward's off. Is being viewed as a formality weak Source says, it's still possible. He returns to Celtics and restructured deal unless Joe Al Horford. He receives a homerun offer from Atlanta or New York and quote origin doesn't even right now. So Gordon doesn't even know right now. This whole and this whole thing makes sense because what you said Bobby is that is extremely strict on the tampering front leading up till tomorrow. So pack it prevented Hayward from really being able to dive in or his side from really being able to dive in allegedly on what's out there what's available? Yeah. You heard the song first real stink ever on tampering last year in the NBA because Kemba committed to the Celtics about three days before that. Opened up and there was just so much of that last name what was going on horrified was set up. So the league was being looked at like a joke and they got pissed Kyrie and Kyrie had that thing had that shit set up shared with the All-Star. So yeah, I'll start weekend job. That was the biggest one. They figured in February. They figured it out. We didn't hit on this last night hard enough because the league Brian windhorst and legitimately hammered the Box on Camp. They said they were dead. To be able to do that. If they didn't back off it so they backed off and I think around the NBA that completely chilled sign-and-trade talks. So that's going to make Friday more hectic for the solid again. It's just an artificial deadline in that regard because of that which is to say you have to wait for that free agency window to open and again we talked about it. I mentioned it earlier. This could be very much a dead. Are they say? All right, man where we can talk but if you want to check it out if again, this is how Belichick does it for the Patriots, they take their free agents down to the wire. They let them go suck they say, what did you find come back to me? All right, I can get close. I can't get close Mazel Tov. See you later. And then that's it. You know and this is the situation they're in right now it just off the problem here is it's the either-or shitshow scenario, which is to say if Atlanta or New York is willing to pay you something that you're not going down. In a sign-and-trade now, you're letting your opening the possibility for Hayward to just go do that. And that's it. So now if he truly doesn't know this is dangerous Murphy thing if it's my belief was he had some idea okay, if you truly doesn't know his value and and there's really purring or to our discussion right now and then tomorrow the phone rings and they're like 4 and 1:30. That's it. Ballgame zero and at worst case scenario. So it's almost worse in that regard. You would hope that I was hoping that he didn't want to go to New York Atlanta. He knew what he get there. But that wasn't as preferred destination. So he's saying work it out here or send me somewhere. I want to go if it's not that it's just really perilous. There there really are All or Nothing line here. I mean my God, I find that interesting because of the fact that there's so few teams with cap space this summer don't those teams like Atlanta in New York have priorities here the Knicks could strike out on Van Fleet, but where else is van full going, you know, so like if the homerun offer is in place for Hayward, it should reasonably be out there right now. It's not like Kevin Durant's on the market and Lana swings-and-misses on his way towards their back up option hayward's the best free agent out there with Van Fleet. So these teams should know more or less now, whether they're going to go after Hayward or someone else out there so long I can I think you have a strong point John and that those teams and negotiation points. I think it's real the interest there. But I think there's a limit to what those teams are even willing to pay. So we go back to resolve with the Celtics or moving toward a sign-and-trade and those are definitely hayward's preferred options if he wanted to leave we'd be we'd be hearing about it right now and we thought but now he's he's saying that the today if you guys are saying the tampering is such a big deal, you know, and we don't know that like we could we could have a problem there, right? Yeah, for sure. But the other side of that is that teams move pretty quick on the first day of free agency, you know a van Fleet goes to New York and then all of a sudden Gallinari like you think might get twenty-five or something from the Hawks all of a sudden hayward's on the destinations. That's again. And then what happens he signs with his he already knows that the cells are going to leverage. Yeah, I mean that that's what happened is smart, right? And that's why the Celtics are holding out here. Everything's at a standstill smart turned it down. The block smart turned it down wasn't really there no restricted sheets. He lost twenty million and he got down to 12 and and now it was key there. They could have hammered smart even more money. They gave him a fair deal and they could still do the same with Hayward here and they should yeah and they could have hammered smart. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, that's where we're at guys. We're still I mean we don't have a ton more to say other than it's going to get interesting. What time Bobby tomorrow free agency begins. Oh, geez. I don't even know. I don't know. I've been on Hayward. Is it tonight? Does it start tomorrow tomorrow night? It's tomorrow night. I think I'm going in the Saturday. It's all kind of Happening Here. I think again. It's maybe it's a different time and it doesn't go fast and furious, but Typically in free agency top guys are gone within the first day and so we're going to know what ton soon after that opens. Yeah, six 6 p.m. Tomorrow. So about twenty four hour from now okay wage, so we'll be live again tomorrow night. I can do it question for question. Are we doing a show after every game Julian asks, we are going to do some sort of show. Yes. We're going to try to do both Jump Ahead Julian. We got a long ways to go before actually. It's a 34 days Jimmy you know it or not but you're going to be best off guests Julian and and others out there, but we are absolutely going to be doing post-game shows. Hopefully split from here in the garden. We'll hopefully have some people down at the Garden wage and some people here or you know remotely again, hopefully at our Studios right now, everybody's in their homes, but we do have a studio setup. We'd love to be able to be out there in the world wage. Doing this thing and then out there at the Garden, you know the way we normally our Jimmy, you know, we haven't been there in February. But yeah, it's and Julian thank you very much for saying that. We'd love to we're going to do something for sure throughout the course of the year with Bobby Joe sway a whole cast of characters is going to be great. Anyway. Oh new sub. Thank you Craig anybody out there who hasn't been ready? And you do and if you are enjoying this and we've loved it the last few days having people out here if you can subscribe to the channel, you're going to get notifications when we go live will do it again tomorrow at free agency any major New Jersey and then certainly during the season post game and things like that. So absolutely we will be doing that as well. Let's put a bow on this guy's we got we got news to put a bow on this you guys are going to love this 1010 EOS July is back as option has been accepted for 1.75 million. Okay. All right, bring the band back home. Starting you might be starting at this rate. That's your start. And so for all you who want to dump Gordon Hayward get ready to hear number 37 called in the starting lineup next year if not home to sleep or you want to sleep or for Hayward. Who's at Toronto? Done. Thanks. Bobby taking on it's been Fleet goes. I'll go with them Bobby. It's a trade that would be something I don't know if that I mean, I don't know but that would definitely be something for sure if the as long as possibilities there to run a staying flexible. They could keep they could keep van Fleet if they don't believe in that I can't do semi. I used to love salmon. I don't know three in D guy. He was so good in college. I don't know what it is. He doesn't even resemble the college the player he was in college. He was so much more fluid in athlone know he's so stiff as a pro. He's honestly to jacked much better and he was Advil he would do he could go to the whole he could finish around the rim. It seems like he can he doesn't use any of his leg leaping ability in athletic ability always been doing his curls John. All you do is angry weight lifting my favorite thing during the week. I read disaster of a year was after a shit loss all you'd hear when we'd be in the locker. We usually just slamming my 24 angrily lifting cuz he was never play. So we'd go get all of his frigging energy and anger out after the game. We were just here. Could you could you know, it's tough to slam it into the ground. Oh man. I I'm kind of yeah. Yep. I'm disappointed for him. I felt like he could go to a different team and maybe get into a bigger role in you know, actually fulfill some of his promise. It doesn't look like it's going to happen in Boston agree. Semi is better than yabusele. That is true. We will never speak by default. We will never speak of him again. Never forget the time we use him as the Jana stopper in that 2018 Series. Yeah. That was something pig-dog. Yeah. Anyways, it's sitting on a rock. Oh, yeah, we don't have we don't have enough guys. Yeah roster spots. I think God he can show that role that would be something so I am here. I think Gordon's going to go through the country. So this is this is where we're at. Do they even have a roster spot to re-sign Hayward Canter option Sammy's here, you know, I guess want to make your slot is odd, but we're talking about we're talking about one roster spot open, right? You gotta you don't need to schedule is being kicked over somewhere and there was word there was worth it. Free last night Keith Smith said Poirier was part of the part of that deal to Memphis when they kicked the 30th pick out and then I heard today that can termites be part of that. So that's interesting as well. But yeah, then semi thing is surprising. I'm trying to do the roster math here. I didn't expect that. There's about twenty this about nineteen or Twenty players with with like two roster spots open here. Since hey were. There's a lot to work with here. And now that kind of raises the antenna to like they just keeping guys in place in case of a trade here. It's an interesting move on. I mean we might need bodies and salaries and things to put together. I think I think in past Seasons to God, no one knows he's going to this is another example that no one knows what's going to happen. You need some salary filler. I mean, it's not like we got a lot. They pretty much pick pick up Yahoo's third year option just basically because I'm near the salary filter. I mean, there's certainly no reason to pick up that option for any let me ask you this question who in the freaking world benefits from this ridiculous. Matthew have to do to make trade-offs NBA wouldn't like how much freaking easier if you just let people trade who cares this salary matching stuff is freaking nonsense. Some of us allow that oh, you're such a guard dog. The name for you, there's a name for you guys. Now, you're right. That's a good point. It makes the sports so hard to understand this like, you know, the amount of thought you had a note analyzed the Hayward stuff today. Like it was just absurd and that hurts the league. You're right like no one wants to open a rule book to try to understand. For it. Yeah. I was told would be no math handles. I would say strong the quite strong. You know who's got some wiggle Joe sway, you know, I'll take jokes where you want. I want any day that we will film that live. Yeah, Joe sway is Shelby. He's looking good for this season. Just ways go the world. It's got a little bit of Wiggle. We've we've we've played it the garden. We've we've we've played around at the Garden post post Garden reports page in in our dress shoe who's before with Joe sway. You can't wait for that one. I'm going to need your help with dunking John. I've been trying to get there. I'm like an inch away. I know used to do it back in the day. I might help there used to be a younger version of me. They could get up over that guy doesn't exist that calf raises Bobby just squats. You gotta lift more kwatts. Gotta do squats power explosion trusting good good thing to gyms are closing. So just do lunges. That's that's the key. You need that little extra juice a little bit more lifting with the legs you'll get there. All right guys, we're going to suck it up Gordon Hayward just so everybody knows opting out. We don't know what that means yet discussion that he could be wrong. Just trying to work it out with the Celtics and if that's the case, we could have a resolution soon. However, again a Mark Murphy report very recently in The Herald & Murphy definitely know some people On the Celtics side of things. Gordon doesn't know his market yet free agency begins on Saturday. He could easily he could easily thanks winter package new sub awesome. He could easily be overwhelmed by a D. Lol Horford. Again. This is a very similar situation to a Horford deal very very very similar. We have a value off of a value. They think they've placed on Hayward and they're trying to work it out and if they can't and there's a number out there and somebody throws it at um, that could be that so we'll see in is in play Indiana. Don't play too apparent Indiana's in Play sign and transfer and play but right now again developing opinion Bobby tell me if you're there to when we began this we thought there working out a sign-and-trade now, I've kind of started too late leaning towards are working out an extension or he freaking goes and that's again that's bad if that happens. I don't know which way you guys are leaning on that now, How you feeling? I'll be I'll be honest man. I'm I've flip-flopped 40 different times on this. I don't know what they're thinking. I mean doesn't seem like anyone does. I mean, this is one of the rare cases where even like the the Big Beat reporters haven't really no one's really had a clue which is baffling to me which which tells me that the Celtics are just I think there's a bit of a standstill. I honestly think if it's hard to even say who has like the upper hearing I was at Gordon Hayward or is it or is it selfish? I don't think we find out until free agency starts at this point because for what one of the reasons we're hearing is going here was not quite sure what authors out there, but I think ideally Gordon Hayward would go to a team like Indiana and the Celtics would be able to sign and trade him and get somebody a value back. I think it's just an exception of kind of a with Mark if we acknowledge you or you going to stop posting that Hayward is great. There we go. Most of these commenters are in line with me. I'll be happy with a sine Irish extension. I don't want to reasonably deal but rather overpay if my options are over RAV4 Hayward Jesus. My options are overpaid for Hayward or get nothing. I have to ask what the overpay is cuz I don't want to be saddled. I don't want to be saddled with the car but I would lead towards the overpass it's funny. Anyway, it's really funny. We don't know at all what's happening and we are I'm glad we got it all off our chests gelled a little bit at the beginning. I feel we needed that that was a little bit of therapy, you know, everybody's fired up because you don't want that feeling last year was really shity that feeling was that feeling when not the worst thing in the world is getting dumped by a girlfriend you freaking hated. Anyway, you know, like and you're like, oh you got the dump me and waited like four years with you so that when Irving left off, Gamed it and you and and we and we fell for it and everybody hated him. That was the freaking worst. And then on top of that Al's like peace out. That was just like holy crap like the end of end of it any Celtic intention whatsoever and thankfully come back comes out of nowhere and it's not quite the same here, but you'd be in a bad place you nothing. It's just a massive step back and and it's just like, you know, and it's going to and there is no remedy before you always felt like well, we still got pics we got the Memphis pick. We got this we got these guys off we're out of we're out of the next thing and Danny having missed, you know, Danny mucking last year's draft. And again, you're picking where you're picking their you can't assume you're going to hit a home run but come and say, you know, just coming up completely empty there and we'll see what happens with this one. There's nothing else coming up the pipeline and there's not a way to spend or to improve. You've lost your home. You're out of assets and even if you get that, so the situation it's going to feel a little helpless for Celtics fans. Yeah, and even if you get that exception we going to use it on is that a big Target out there? Do you have the assets to acquire that tire? Cuz teams just don't take exceptions. They need assets to in the pics aren't near Boston. The player assets aren't they unless some of these young guys come along we know that from draft night because of their inability to move up so they would be in effect stuck. So what do you do them you move on from Kemba more aggressively. Do you trade smart? I think they're like the loss is just keep mouthing after that. This is again. I hate these using the same phrase. I've been using the last few days about the take a step back to take a step forward, but you would have to you would have to maybe dump Kemba and get younger and then start to look two years down the road and not worry so much about now if you can do that, but you might try to figure something out there. Um as well and it came up but I don't know if Jimmy asked where's the leverage right now? It's in Boston just because of the market like we would know if there was something there for birth. Would right now and as Murphy said he's he's sitting around he's waiting. It's a standstill so hopefully hopefully this doesn't go all the way into camp. But like I said the advantage for the Celtics is that that money moves fast. So if the suitors dry up for Hayward, yeah, we're gonna know celebrities with Hayward simply because of the I guess all she has to lose his money and he'll find a home one way or the other the Celtics have a ton to lose because it's it's just they have more to lose. I'm not saying all you have to lose is money. It's millions of dollars. You make these gambles all the time. When you enter free agency. You think you have a market it's there. It's not there. Certainly. It's real but a guy who's made as much money as he's made he's gambling on a few million here or there with always the possibility that she could, you know, signed two years and try to say, I mean, he has some options but no matter what if he misses he's not going to miss by a ton. The Celtics cannot cannot have him off. block So we don't know where the large what we don't know is the concern about the role celebrity named Jimmy as you said, you know as your as your opinion developed, sorry to page of Bobby you may start coming back towards overpay. Yeah, I mean hey be because the other options sitting there with you know, what your and it sucks. You know, I mean like you just said you'll be starting a Jimmy so not that it matters, but the semi opt-in still gives the Celtics to move on within 3 days non-guaranteed salaries, so not a huge deal in there. So another formality. Yeah. All right free agency time and we continue to wait. I feel like every every deadline that passes we should wait for the next month. All right guys, that's it. We are going to wrap it. Thank you for joining us as an awesome audience. We are packed the whole time more than we had for the draft audience or Thursday. I couldn't see the was it an angry audience, you know, a lot of people mad at Hayward and they say Sean like I'm out of there. There's some emotional stuff there. A lot of people kind of see in the same thing different sides. We've taken took the trays overpay him. It's a bit all over the map. But I gotta ask you this job. A lot of people would feel good. I feel like consensus out there right now is if there's a move they can make make it may I love getting the Celtics perspective from you has any player ever moves a conversation needle like this guy? It's insane anytime you put his name out there ten thousand people want to talk about him and I work KO. Yeah. I've never seen anything like it. Yeah. I re Kyrie was a guy. Yeah, I don't want mrs. Me off more than anything only because you know in Jimmy was down there with me at the Garden a bunch and the whole first couple of months of the Season that that season where everything went bad. I kept looking around to our guys. I'm like this fucking this guy sucks like he's poison gas. It was like it takes, you know, don't get me started took people so long to see it even just doing it and then he'd make these comments and we'd be like Jesus what's jerky just through the whole team of the bus know we did and it was actually thoughtful and it's he's not wrong now just like, you know, what's so interesting with me people forever to get there on Thursday. I wouldn't know the worst thing too is I did lose six games in a row and like Kerry would say something awful and then then winning game and then every other every one would be oh, oh, yeah. There's there's problems in the office what I would smile on the bed angry and guess each other was palpable Jimmy there in the locker room with nobody talked everybody in you know, I've been in it was the right documentation locker rooms, but covering multiple teams. I've never walked into a locker room off. Win six guests tearing down getting changed walking out without saying a thing to each other word not hated each other. I've never seen that and then finally Jaylen Brown basically just said, yeah, we hate Kyrie Irving in different words different words, but and you know all the guess who got all the vitriol in the National media Gordon Hayward. He's getting favorited. He's Stevens guy. He's causing the problems here and I'm just like what happened it was on that bandwagon. Terry Rozier is playing than Gordon Hayward that yeah, I will never get over that awful take and it was Stephen A Smith pushing that to the max. I was like, come on. Yeah there had been sneaking off and thank you everybody for joining in here. Let me tell you one last time about our sponsor manscaped nice enough to sponsor our segments. We can keep bringing you this content for free, which is what we love to do twenty years. Offer free shipping with the code Garden 20 Advanced Keep Calm whole bunch of products. You can get the lawnmower the weed wacker the crop duster trimmer. Yeah, all of it the odorant deodorant deodorant foot powder. What? Yeah cologne. Yeah cologne a bag carry it all you get boxers like hold your bundle in Tights great 20% off free shipping and free shipping on the ground or or 20 at manscaped.com. We love it. Yeah, I mean we're doing next trip shipment. Like I said the 2.0 couldn't have done this. Hey, we got five hundred plus any girls who were on this you got a boyfriend or you got a Christmas song. Yeah. It's a good Christmas gifts. It is Hakeem stuffer and it might benefit you to I mean it's easy and it's great. It it might make you might make them self-conscious, but that's okay, Sometimes I want you want to make him self-conscious to keep the upper hand. I didn't know how poorly how poorly dressed and groomed I was until I found the right woman to tell me like, yeah, you can't you can't do that. If you want to upgrade you should do this and then maybe do that and then like better so then on don't sit on 2.0 for two years you gotta upgrade. This is the time to do it. 3.0 is out there. Yeah. Need to upgrade. All right guys again. Thank you for joining. We'll wrap it up for Jimmy Toscano Bobby Manning. We will be back again. Thank you. Everybody. A lot of new subscribers are out there. I love that press subscribe you log. Notified every fashion live will be doing this a ton Jimmy Toscano. Bobby Manning's from celticsblog and clns media John's anesthetics Lagos.

Celtics Hayward Gordon Hayward Bobby Horford Atlanta Knicks Gordon Hawks New York Hayward Camp Jayson Tatum hayward Al Horford three years Kelly oubre Jaylen Brown eighty million dollars NBA John
NBA Trade Rumors Gordon Hayward & Marcus Smart on the Block?

The Garden Report | Boston Celtics Post Game Show from TD Garden

56:37 min | Last month

NBA Trade Rumors Gordon Hayward & Marcus Smart on the Block?

"All right, everybody welcomed into an offseason addition of the garden report Bobby Manning just way Pavan or pavana wage like to call him from time to time and Jimmy or the thing we're not making I know and I know it's it's exactly wanted nickname start off and real quick. We have to say it is pronounced Jose way for everyone in the comments who saying we're pronouncing it wrong, correct? That's true. Thank you. Jose, Jose. Wait Pavan people get used to it. Okay, right. So spitballing on the Aussies is not as hot attraction. I think since last we spoke the Lakers won the NBA title office and we'll talk a little bit about that and where that place has them kind of in the history of NBA franchises not know that was title number. 17712 will get into it but the account some other questions. Okay. Okay. We are counting to ten eleven years that red basically bought the package right, you know, so I mean, yeah, oh there's a lot to digest and we guys can pay whatever they always called. So let's let's get into it. The first thing is, is the what are you going to do in the offseason? You can talk about draft but nobody knows who any of the players are except for Bobby and we'll give him a we'll give him a and I'm getting there. Yeah, how about 3 it's it's not a great draft to Celtics have three Midland pics. We're going to talk about that a little bit. But all you can look at here is free agents and trades and free agents and trades and for whatever reason Marcus Smart gets less and less popular as you get further away from the season and so it's always what you remember what he did last and what he did last was take 75 shots in a game that they lost to the Heat and everybody else. Mad and seems to be getting madder about it and again something's don't have a lot of options for trades right now. So Marcus, it's a he's it's a double whammy with him. He's getting hit both ways. The recent rash of him is a guy who's undisciplined and jacking too many shots and doesn't fit with the players you have which again isn't entirely true because he is a distributor and they actually play well when he's on the floor you just a couple moments like game six where he's got a rain it in and he's that's happened before the other is he's really only the tradable he's really got the only guy with a tradable salary and the only asset can deal so naturally his name's going to come up. So one trade that came up and I'm going to start with it here and then we'll kind of kick around other possibilities on the Simmons and Zach Lowe podcast a theoretical swap with nope you hate it provided doesn't like it. No actually already hates it that's alitta come on Simmons. And so funny Simmons is the Boomer devil for a young Celtics fans out there. Okay. Yeah, just yeah, you nailed it. That's exactly what it is is just bad Boomer, you know anything coming out of his mouth but this scenario was smart to Golden State Smart Plus 14, I believe to Golden State for the number to pick which again, it's an uninspired draft. We could kick around some of the players who might be there will let Bob ball at that. But at face value does this is this a deal that you would do if you're the Celtics let's start with start with Jose way, cuz obviously it's not liking it absolutely one-hundred-percent not punished and why people completely forget I love the way you let into this conversation with Marcus Smart, like how soon they forget do we forget the old Marcus Smart? Like that was the guy that's all of a sudden returned and and he's like characterized as being that guy just because he had a really, you know, tough series. Let's face it. Yeah, of course, he jacked up shots. He you know, poor decision-making down the stretch. Yeah, all that all the above. But I mean overall all season long. He hasn't been that guy. You know, he's he's come a long way from from jacking up shots and and just taking terrible opportunities. You know, I just think everyone just started giving him a bath. This is a huge part of the something's identity. And if the some of these aren't drooling over on top to pig that they really think they can plug in and make an immediate impact which I I just don't see it. Honestly that someone that can really offer that's worth giving up someone like Marcus Smart and giving and giving him up just like that. Like I just think it's he's just too valuable to throw in a trade like that for someone that's not a hundred percent sure. There's going to fit and put this up. If it's not putting you over the top then I don't want to hear the the proposed deal and most of these deals have been so bad. I mean this one isn't up there, but people are just throwing Marcus Smart and trains that you should just doesn't belong in it's it's been ridiculous in a different draft the idea of trading up in to pick number to exactly be very enticing a different driver. I'm still you know call log. Sucker, I'm still looking at like you just gotta you have your pick of everybody but one player that just means you have you gotta just nail one down and it's just in its enticing for me it to go up that high in the draft is enticing. Even if I registered with rookies. They need time and time could be more than a year. We think James while you're going to take a step back. Yeah, and that's the thing about trading any one of the pieces on this team and it's fun because the idea of mixing things up and shaking things up is always intriguing but that's really the Celtics looking back toward 2015 now and Marcus Smart being the Centerpoint of that have developed year-in and year-out progressed besides 2019. I don't know what happened there. They've taken a step to being a veteran team even the younger pieces on this team Brown Tatum like there for most players in this league at this point. So smart I I get why his name gets thrown around because the college Xcodeh can match with almost anybody and it's enticing for other teams because he as we talked about in our last episode can be that chemistry piece for a team, but I think no matter what the Celtics are losing something. That's because you guys talk about the offense. What about the defense? He was just all defense had one of the best defensive seasons of his career and that's a critical as anything for a championship and he's going to be on the bench. I keep saying this if the team Kathy he'll be a bench player and if they're not they're screwed anyway as an aside, I'm going to pay this about Marcus Martin defense. Okay, and it doesn't the conversation doesn't have to go here. But I love what he does, you know on the defensive side of the ball and he makes plays and the whole winning place thing, but honestly, he's not a great on-the-ball defender against quicker guards and he gets eaten dog. He gets eaten alive in those matchups. I feel like defense and everything is Right energy is contagious job. Let's face it. He's made some other Defenders look way better just for being out wage. The team defense is great and he does make plays all over the place in the energy and the attitude absolute acting out. I think that's but his individual on the ball defense but not. That guy when that stuff is quick juki guards. He's not able to do that so that to me it's different if you can neutralize those guys a Maria book or anything, you're not facing these guys left and right but I think he struggles with with with with a lot of these players. So separately Jimmy your thoughts just initially again. What's funny is this strange like left off or something that something's would never in a million years think of some people are so adamantly guess and I don't think it's a total slam dunk know do you No, it's listen. I think when Danny Ainge is interested in a draft prospect. We usually hear about it. Right one way or another Through the Grapevine we know, you know, he's either showing up to some sort of, you know Tournament game event, whatever weekend here. I haven't heard that about any players in this class. I mean specifically with this draft. It's not a deep down. We know that but in terms of Market smart as the trade ship, I'm not against that now I'm not like actively shopping Marcus Smart, but I understand if I'm a Celtics that if I want to improve my team one aspect. I know I'm not trading Toyota mean I'm not trading brown, right? Those are the two untradeables. I'm not sure what you can get for a Kemba Walker trade. We're going to talk about Gordon Hayward, but on the last year of his life had their markets Mark gives you value not only from what you can provide on the court, but what what is contract what is contract is so if you're looking to improve in one area Marcus Smart is a pig. Able to piece and some an asset that a lot of teams would be interested in because of all the reasons you guys talked about why you don't want to trade them how he is on defense team defense. Will you bring to the team is intensity bulb? You know, he's a veteran this league now believe it or not. And I think you can help a winning team. So why can't you help us out next? Well, you can he has and I think maybe he his role obviously changed in months ago and Gordon Hayward went down he was doing a lot more than what maybe we wanted to see him do and it's give or take with him. Right? I mean his gift is his curse at times and I think like Johnson we first started off, it's Marcus Smart's very like what have you done for me lately? So the last thing you remember Marcus Smart is the shot checking but there are some games when he's diving over the Courtney makes the crazy pass or the big rebound faith is a versatile Defender, but he's not a shutdown Defender like John said, but let me ask let me let me let me ask this. Okay, cuz this is what's funny. I love these. I remember at NBC I did we did it. We did a segment back wage. Potential trades this was the year that they picked a demand. They had the number one pick and it was like, okay. I'm going to trade up and get Leonard you want to do this you wonder that so came up with a bunch of trade hypotheticals and my favorite thing about that segment was both sides were Furious saying they would never do it. Okay, let's trade right? That's this trade. Yeah Warriors are like are you freaking suck the thing about this give the number to pick for this friggin have a negar who think 34% three-point shooter who plays some defense a greedy glue guy. I don't watch that. I want stars and that's the whole thing is it's the promise of what may come from something like the to pick of a potential potential third star. You got a home grow these things. This is where I'm this is why I'd be for it though. Who here's the thing doesn't matter. Yeah. It doesn't matter, you know does matter but yeah, you're feeling we want you know where your ceiling is now off. Just play Everything perfect have no injuries possibly get to the finals and then who knows what may be for the next year or two or just next year. But in order to get to that next level you're going to need a third star 6 to put with Tatum and brown and chances are you're not going to be able to go super max sign that guy in 2023 cuz you're going to have one of those teams that has three players then frigging nothing. Okay, if you can make the money work, so the best path to that is home grow it you gotta find a way to it would have been great. If you hit a home run on a here. Going to say hero is that guy who have been great. If you hit a home run with one of your non-lottery lower lottery picks right now. This is the best chance you're going to get to get a guy that again this is a hypothetical trade, but I do this every day of the week and and because it's just possible that you hit that whole John. I'm not looking for next year your Champion trying to log Short if you stay with what you've got right now, it's two years or you possibly extend it into into the Jalen Jason's Prime by hitting a homerun and I would absolutely take that swing month. Okay, but that that makes sense thing. But at the same time persuade is all in give me an angel sway. Yeah. Okay what you're saying makes sense obviously want to spread out the wealth and you want to have wrote you want to have guys rotating into your into your roster that contribute it all different. Times of their careers right? But if you're the Celtics you're at a point now where you were, you know, you can make the case that you should have been in the NBA Finals. You're right there again. I'm not against paying for Marcus trading Market smarter Gordon Hayward, but do you trade them for a complete a prospect? Somebody have no idea on something that's not going to help you theoretically the next year that much right? Maybe it could do an extent. But when you make a trailer that don't you want to make sure you're getting something back to you like a proven commodity. I mean they can help you take you from Eastern Conference Finals to NBA finals and I just don't know if you're the Celtics if that's the trade that's going to do that for you. If you're the if you're like going State Warriors, I mean that's exactly why they would make the trade right because they're they're having their guys all came back in there at the cost of going from you know, this might be even greater if they bring Marcus Smart on so they're they're are they're saying well, we don't think we need a top prospect because we're built for NBA Finals already dead. The stuff is could make that case except they're set a little bit more for the future. And obviously if you want to talk about home grown products, you can just look at the Warriors cuz that's why they are where they are and the southern part play em down that path cuz your body suck, right. So why they're starting down that path? Yeah. Why would you Stray From the Path? I'm not I would kind of they may they may have hit their their paper. They both believed to be going better. I believe the cases. Yeah. Okay. So the reason I say like that is because look Deni H is orchestrated this thing suck it perfectly right not perfect. But nothing going to be perfect in this league, right? So what I mean by that is you have Marcus Smart at what making what thirteen twelve million right? What are still plenty of value there, right Jaylen Brown and I think this is a move that is been so like overlooked you walk in Jaylen Brown for that amount of dollars right compared to what Jamal Murray made what I don't even want to go down that road, but just, you know, I'm throwing that out there job. You can use that you know and to compare to what general Brown's making that's a steal that I have guys Jayson Tatum Jaylen Brown. These guys need to turn into the Kawhi Leonard and Paul George of the Eastern Conference need another clip. It didn't do. Well. I know that's what else but what I mean by that is these two guys need to take control of the team. You need to leave the team you had these two guys logged in you have Marcus Smart, you know, that's a bargain right there. Why are you going to shake the rock the boat and train someone like Margaret anywhere? I'm greedy. I want to burn scar allow them. Well Marcus Smart allow them to take the reins or will he do more off of the performances that we saw the things I'm adamant what happened? I'm adamant the Conference Finals. I just think this team has been around each other for quite some time that they can they can buy those things. I'm like, I don't think it's the end of the world. Are they good enough Trade It just I don't see they're they're good enough to win Jimmy. I just think their health fleeting which we've seen the last couple of years. Is and they don't have the depth to sustain when they lose one of their core guys now if they're able to maintain this group for years to come with the Hayward restructure, which is a possibility out of all this as well. I still think they're in a pretty good spot with their top-end talent to contend and if they can mix in one good draft pick, it feels like they'll have enough of depth there. But with John describes here is important because they don't have credible contracts and then the future especially if you lose Hayward and you're not filling out that spot there and smart does only have two contracted years left. So what you're looking at here is you want to come back and now but you also want to have assets alongside Brown and painting for all the years. They're going to be here cuz then you get into the back end of their deals and you still want this to be a competitive team. I don't like giving up a championship window, which is what you're ultimately doing. I feel like if you're trading Marcus Smart the Lesser value, but it is smart to have credible contracts Assets in the form of draft picks off. Things that you can carry into the future too as John said make that big strike pulling another star, you know the ensuing years because this group ultimately does only have one or two years. We think about Canvas Health to to win a championship that can fly back not be they might have swung and missed, you know, because we don't want injury and you're done. Yeah, we we close like 6 in the in the best thing about that is I mean that just put it this way, but you guys know what I mean like Kimball walk if that was the case or something like Jason or Jalen like I still think these two guys are on their way up. Obviously Kemba is where he's at in his career and you know this these next two years so crucial cuz they're probably going to be going to be downhill after that. You're a little bit worried about campus Health moving forward. But again, I think you if you can somewhat going to uh, you know, limiting his minutes throughout the course of the regular season making sure he's good to go, you know come the postseason. I think Jaylen Brown is that good? I think Jason Taylor's got good, you know, we were going to see an All-Star season from home. Isn't out from I think we agree on that this makes the thing is too. I think this is the problem with the Marcus Smart debate, you know into that window a lot of people think when you try to get rid of him, you know getting rid of him because you don't like him it's not that no, that's right. That isn't it. It's like Bobby said no, I was saying earlier is you're doing it to you know, you always have to manage now and down the road. You're you're not this is not when now or bust when your when your core players are twenty two and twenty one. You know what I mean is like that's not what you're worried about winning. Now you theoretically have a 7/8 year window to build this roster around these people and and make sure that when you know, you get to the point where Tatum's going to start to have choices page that you have something here that's worth staying cuz the one thing you don't want is mr. Friggin L A or you know, you know twenty-five-year-old guy looking around and like Miami's kind of birth. You know that every analysis on the guys that's that's some legitimate destinations rising in La is trying to get off that weld a contract to worry about the third man after birth as much managing for I got to keep these guys here and happy and make sure that I've got the team that they stay you don't want a Jana situate or you don't want to go Kauai. Whatever it is. You don't want people looking at every situation tiririri. So New Jersey's fine, that's that could be part of the problem is you have to constantly be building therefore again for me the Marcus thing. I would take a swing even if it makes you a little bit worse cuz I'm not as let me throw some let me let me throw some more enticing names that you guys because you're not going to get excited about the draft cuz those guys are years away from being important players, but I do think this two teams out there that would be interesting team partners for the Boston. I look at our Orlando on the Hayward side. We talked about Nikola bukovic Aaron Gordon those kind of guys because they're flatlining out their wage. I think a Hayward to mix things up. There would be intriguing for a team like that and I looked to Sacramento on the smart phone because that's the team that then interest in him in the past and they're going to have to trade buddy hield because of discontent there. I mean, it feels like he need he wants to be out of there. So a lot of money on heels. That's a lot of yeah, but is he a better fit on offensively I would do that and then you would you would send him to Sacramento. It's me, it's not me. It's Danny. That's just paying a month behind and you know, you're good with both of those. All right. Well, I mean, those are the kind of names that I think can at least maintain the Celtics status if they're moving on from either one of those guys like sway wants to retire smart number next year. You won't entertain Marcus mama. Don't go don't get me wrong. I mean, I like Mysteries a lot. But if you're if you're the magic a I don't know. I don't know if you're that way if you're going to push that button and you're thinking going to hey, what's going to be you know, this is a couple of years ago and all injuries aside, maybe but now I mean you started he's not to say that he's older but all these injuries, I mean seem to be scared of him. I don't think you wouldn't go Anthony Edwards at the to pick their No, I don't like them. Okay. Is there anyone that you guys Wiseman seems to be the consensus but he's he's probably not he's going to be a year or two. That's how big's go. Yeah, Nick last year, you know. Yeah. Yeah, he he shows a lot of Promise in the way. They go out there and Phoenix did but more or less refined to me and he's going to need some work. He's going to need some smoothing over like he he honestly would be good for Golden State because they have more of a choice them around where he won't have to do as much he can just play eighteen twenty minutes a game and in Boston, they'll be count on him as the starter so that wouldn't be ideal. All right. Well so Marcus again, that's not going anywhere. It's going to keep getting out hooked about the merits of doing so and you're going to hear a bunch of different scenarios on that Bobby touched on Hayward. So I took a pivot there. Okay. So here's the Celtics Gordon Hayward conundrum is likely he's going to opt in for 34 million because he can't really not, you know Market the uncertain 36 I think right? Yeah, I mean, that's okay. So yeah, he's he's going to take that 30-second. Yeah, but this is going to create a problem for the Celtics because if the option and then walks, they lose that they lose it. They lose the space. They lose the asset there just comes off the books and they can't re-sign a player at his level. So that's a major risk here for all takes almost to the point that I personally believe and you might you might have to this is what we're going to debate here if he opts in I think the Celtics have to trade him even if it makes them. Ours and again, this goes back to the whole asset conversation of losing or the other and Bobby alluded to this briefly is restructure. So that's what we'll throw out here. Let's go on the scenario that Gordon Hayward does in fact opt in which everyone expects you will do and he does not one. Do you want to restructure him for like a 3 and 63 and 65 whatever it would take long to get him back or would you rather trade him and and and try to roll it up into something. And again, we've heard that Indiana scenario a bunch of times with Oladipo and or Turner throw some pics and make the money work and see what happens. So Jimmy start with you. What do you think? What do you want to see happen here? Well like Marcus Smart, I think Gordon Hayward is Expendable. So I'm certain not just going to say no, you know, you have to figure out a way to get this guy back and restructures Deion's after three year extension. You want to talk about injuries or I mean, we we all know the story with coordinator in in Boston, so I'm I don't weirdly enough. I wouldn't call an injury-prone. I think a lot of injuries have been fluke, but I'm wondering if that's going to play an effect into how serious the Celtics get with the restructure. But John like you said, I mean the last name Danny is going to want to see happen is is just watch this guy walk away and get nothing in return and not have that cap space. So I think he's going to exhaust all options. I I said it in the last time we we met him and I I I'm not content with where the Celtics are at the V. I'm not sold on Robert Williams. I hate to say it. I think that's a risk wage going into next season depending on an unknown like him to sort of take that massive step and take you to that next level. So if they can if they if Gordon Hayward, you know Ops edition subjects do find themselves in a position to trade for a big that fits their style of play and I don't know if it's Myles Turner or whoever it is. I think absolutely have to look at that and it goes back into what we're talking about with Marcus Smart Home. Sinuously adding, you know contracts that you can you know grow and value flip, you know restructure extend, you know possibility exactly. It's part of continuing they you know, building around Jayson Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown. So I think that's something they have to look at now a healthy Gordon Hayward. I think we all agree that you know healthy Gordon Hayward probably takes the Celtics. Mm. I don't even know what that is. I don't it's like you forget it. Might as well take the friggin Easter Bunny. OK, it doesn't exist. It's not real slow. We need doesn't exist. These are mine. Is it exists? All right easy. Remember when she remember when he took 50% Hayward save the Celtics in game three of the heaps here pretty I I brought the idea of creating Hayward has grown on me off. I'll credit Brian bernardoni in that and the extension of that money idea that you want to maintain that over many years instead of just having that One Bank every Forum bus now. I think I think there's value in that and that if you really believe you can win the championship in 2021, you would stick with that and not care if you watch but you know that box are around the lake is around this is no certainty. They're like, yeah month and you don't look at the Celtics with Hayward as being the super team, but if you restructure him, I think having Hayward still puts you head and shoulders above other teams in terms of that core and you have the certainty that you have in for many years. Luckily. This is easy for the Celtics if he opts out you can work with them if the odds in you can trade them. So the decision becomes fairly easy and I think with underrated here is hey, we can actually be very valuable for another team. Not just because there's the potential of him playing at a star level. But because he clears thirty-four million off that team's books and even though it won't clear up the Celtics game. Could open up a Max lot of very close to it, you know next year value, but you may get a lesser something in return just to be able to kind of hang onto an asset. So it's it's in line with the market smart conversation. It could theoretically make you worse. I think no one's going to argue the on it will well it almost certainly will argue. The on floor products is going to be better. If Marcus remains in place on a contract or whatever happens happens there and Hayward restructures or even plays out next year. But if he's there and he's healthy, you know. Yeah. Hey, it's never been healthy. I guess we offer get the full year. He was helpful in eight games. Okay, last four years healthy. I think he had one kid and he lived in a thousands of miles away. Okay, Yeah. Yeah, he's always happy right? No. Listen what Gordon Hayward I think would you know, we're going to get home. It would be easier for the Celtics with the option. Right cuz you have to trade it and I think realistically that's probably what's going to happen. But if you're the Celtics you have to showcase the guy again to my point, you have to prove or at least that's how long you can play to the level that they saw I guess twenty five months ago cuz you guys are ready for God. I mean he did that all season long. He pulled out like teams that doesn't hurt during the year off right? But listen listen if you Showcase Cinema connect the dots going to get me into a pic. I mean either guys made of glass just way we I know we're saying not injury-prone if I'm John that's why I'm not saying here. That's why I wouldn't want to see this other three structures did honestly like I hate to say it but like if you look down the road, I just don't see I don't think it's worth it, you know twenty million per I mean you can get anything more because if you get more realistically I see this thing playing out where he option cuz he knows he has a showcase himself whether it's in Boston or whether it's for another team and I think Have the Indiana Pacers. Here's the only problem with the situation is but the internet page says I love Myles Turner. I love that scenario. I think I like I think he would play well to sell the like the fit between to your point John, you know, you could lose that trade but you know, you take it cuz you want to get some value out of the deal. Right? But the thing is how good of the page is going to be on trade that line and twenty Twenty-One. I mean, it's TJ Warren going to like play like you say the bubble, you know, it's all the depot going to all of a sudden maybe the he sticks around and they ball out and they're fourth in the Eastern Conference and then how eager they took to make a move but there's always a team at the deadline that's easier right off. But again, I mean before you where it is, it's really I think it boils down to how much do you or how badly do the Celtics want to lose in a trade? Are they going to be stubborn enough to say you suck at screw it? Let's go into the playoffs if he leaves he leaves. Hopefully, you know, we can figure something out. If not the hell of it or if it Danny you're saying no matter what just give me the best offer. See you later Gordon. I think you do in the off-season and they'll do it to you want to integrate a guy during the off-season you want to get that done have the book set the decisions. It's going to be a tough decision and not just because of the basketball and who you getting back and this and that but you're also trading a guy who signed in Boston and you want to have some favor for guys who want to come to Boston in the future. It's something that they built the last five years the never existed before and all of a sudden you are running into that I say and that's a that's a consideration because when Anthony Davis was on the table, all that stuff drummed up you can think about the Lakers and this and that but it was noise. It was noise around the league. It was noise with Asians that they don't care about their players and that they'll ship anybody off in a moment's notice plus we have graduation ship with them, which is another thing, you know, the Grand Lakes having him here and it's a consideration because we do want to keep bad situation like Rozier. No, I don't think you could you're going to do that with him either. It's just going to be the thirty four straight up. And cuz if you're sign-and-trade you hard calcu self and they don't want that either. It's nice, but it's grown on me because of those future considerations. I'm not as opposed to as they used to be but if they can work it out. I work it out with him and make it work on team determined. That's what I hear the Celtics want to do that. And so that that again it seems that you want to get them to do it you want an Al to do it though, and it didn't happen again. We're talking about different Asti. I know but we're different and totally different circumstances for sure, but you don't know we don't know how happy he is here. We don't know with idiots like us yelling at him every day. He might here and want to get out of here. Not the worst of it by the way. Okay. There's a radio, you know, if smarts a polarizing figure, you know Hayward is I mean, there's a lot of people who are tough on them. I don't know how long We don't really know what what he wants to do Beyond. I'm not I don't wanna call it a cash-grab but beyond just cashing in on this season beyond that. I have no idea if he if he gave his game. I mean if I'm him I don't do it. I take the one year and I see what happens after that. Right? Exactly. I think it's just all but done pretty pretty much like on both sides. I just think if you're going haywire, like why wouldn't you do that showcase yourself and just stick around in Boston where you're a contending team on the stage, you know playing in front of millions, when when the when the schedule comes off as I was going to have plenty of national televised games and that's just his opportunity to showcase themselves, especially those first Thirty forty games of the Season. Yeah, and they can win it all with him. Like it's a possibility. It's a real possibility if they say health. Yeah, I would honestly consider not letting him play a game until like games 76 of the Season Gronkowski the grunt move. I didn't walk. Yeah, come on in play the last 10 games and then playoffs. That's it. I'd be perfectly fine with that. So the Hayward situation looms and those are the two things there and we talked a little bit about the options. I'll hit Bobby up here. We do have the draft picks, you know trade them everyone look the likely scenarios. Are you roll up a move up a couple of slots, theoretically to get a guy you like in package pics other things you can do you can throw picks lower picks in deals with guys you want to essentially dead giveaway and convert those into second-rounders or something. So say you want to dump cantoro Chalet and clear those guys out because you just don't want to hold them onto the roster. You could do that their stash players are later for sure Bobby in your brief moment to give you about 40 seconds to talk about this now in your in your brief study right now. Anybody excited John is right. Now anybody know anybody home? Is that you? I love Devin vessel Isaac okoro. Those are guys that are going to be 7. No, I think you can move up to five through seven in the big with relative ease with relative ease. There's going to be a lot of teams looking to move maybe but you'd have to basically you gotta send all three of those pics and began most teams don't want three first-rounders in a year. So you actually lose value in doing that. Theoretically I think your packaging 214 you can put you can move players 26 might not get you to 7. No, no, I think you'll have to send a player there too. I don't know if it's lying for it or some of the other guys. There's another Indiana guy. That's just ripe on that deal by the way, you know, and he's going to miss in the next year to which kills his value. I'm just saying there's a ton of teams in the lottery looking to move back and there's not many teams looking to move up. I like I said, he's at 9 right now on a lot of the draft boards defensive guy can get to the rim probably a replacement for semi ojeleye. Who's going to be gone this offseason project organized most of the guys. I I'm wrapping up and sending out in in one of these girls. But yeah, Gavin vasallo is explosive. He could be a bench contributor the team defend me like crazy probably high-end all all defense potential. There is shot looks a little wacky. I've seen his show in recent weeks. So, you know, Danny Ainge he's going to love him way back right? It's like dead. In a sling what happened there? I don't know. So maybe maybe after seeing that he'll be there fourteen. I'm not come back on it. No, I think they gotta move out they're going to do whatever they can then move up in the strap because I hear the Pistons talking about it like here the next talking about moving back. So there are a number of different teams talking about moving back. Yeah. All right. So Bob is going to have more on the draft. We're digging a little deeper here. What's the draft date Bobby November 18th. So we got we got a little little under a month and we will ramp it up there. They've got guys in there, you know, there's players are looking at so I know we're going to be hearing names pop up and we're going to learn a lot more about these guys also as trade scenarios start to pop off when you start to Envision. Okay, start looking at that six, seven eight nine slot. If you do jump in there who you might potentially get and again, it doesn't seem to be the most exciting draft, but it's certainly month. Citing then drafting another wave of Grant Williams carsen Edwards. And you know young you're right James Young likes sorry. You don't need to make some more names than happen is RJ draft. Juwan Johnson. What about Joanne Johnson. Gershon yabusele on that. Was it on the table at that time was turned off Butler and half the room want to Johnson. That's the story and they were really debating it hard up until the final thing and they went with Johnson and that's still people close to change say that's still one that just eats them alive. You know what those were both considered and there was an argument a strong argument for both Players in that draft and they went with Johnson and talk about a guy who shot just kept getting by the time that thing was done. It was like a soccer throwing you know, what what what you what year was what year was bother coming out of college. I'm terrible with yours. I just remembered Johnson was a senior like everyone knew who John Johnson was a dead. I don't know what the big like, I don't know. That's a cause of everyone knew who Carson Edwards was too. That's how it goes with the draft last thing. I want to move on with the Lakers won deservedly won Gold confetti. They did it was they one and I said they were going to win John you did not blame. You didn't believe in the Lakers throughout the entire that I bubble. Yeah you or Bobby. I think me and just over like now it's Lakers like it's gonna be like you guys are like no I thought deep enough. Look. I was I was taught. You guys with heat and 6, but I was I agreed with Bobby that the heat would make it more competitive than than than and they had and they did it was obvious when they won game five when Butler saved them there. He was he was given post-game interviews. Like that's all I had you know, like oh my god. Did you see him? He did the like old man getting thought was their Championship all of the commentaries. Like I did it. We did it man, you know, it was like you really didn't do anything but it kept serious competitive it looked closer than it was with the six games there but took us about that more about the two questions off of it are I'm never Legacy guy. I don't think LeBron to me is no greater for having one another championships cheer. Then he would be if he played ten more years and never won again. He's still the best or at worst a fraction behind Jordan who's ever played and nothing's going to change it back. Keep adding stuff to it. Maybe it makes easier makes it easier for people to be able to Clearly say he's number one. Cuz some people are really have a tough time saying he's better than you say, how do you say nothing? He does is going to is going to come back to me. The winds are the the the winds are above the competition the team construction the timing everything that happens there, you know, like I'm not faulting him for running into monster Golden State teams, if he was he was no lesser of a player there when he wasn't a line which like how much more do you weigh that versus any single one of yours? I'm not counting against but I'm saying he can do month. I don't think you can do anything to hurt his legacy. I think we can only mail. He cannot miss the playoffs if there was anything it would have been that I mean, I think of think of it like this. I mean the way he played this year and I mean you could make the case that he was easily one of the best players from start to finish this year into his above the League's every year since year three. Okay. He should home. Christine MVP. Yes. It's ridiculous that he doesn't he's the best player every year and it's not closed but you're going to follow the analytics or the stats or frigging birth. This is great. It doesn't matter LeBron's the best player always always you think about it to me. Is that like how was the 35 right at 35 and people will always be Seventeen years. I want to compare LeBron and MJ All the Time Michael Jordan and his age thirty-five season golfing he had retired at age thirty-five season and and LeBrons doing what he's doing. He's thirty-five. So I mean, I'm not going abroad MJ debate right now, but I mean that's one of the things that you could certainly say like Urban. Yeah exactly. It's not a regular Grand did I mean LeBron more years? It's so unique title a unique type Bobby Jones way, you're going over each other. Just where were you saying that you asked for both of us to talk to the same time? Just keep interrupting each other dead. Regardless if he's not the the number one scorer on the team if you're one of the top two guys and you're leading the team and you're putting up stats away, he did in the NBA Finals. I mean, you're gonna push the needle in terms of that conversation wage in this chamber Shadow particular. That's a really bum up on my list maybe a slot or two. But I mean at the end of the day if you want to put them over Jordan joint going to sit there and say if he goes off and rattles found more titles or four titles in the next six years that you can't even at least say this is a maybe not more of a conversation but more of a declaration that he is the greatest. I I have him ahead of Jordan already and took four years. So it doesn't change my opinion not you but you know anybody else but it's almost like the Tom Brady conversation established himself as the greatest and then they're like all this a legacy defining Championship a few losses. What if Tom Brady Falls took 500 in Super Bowls. Is that going to hurt his chances, you know, like every time you serve them up as a chance to add to that job. Resume there's also a chance theoretically to detract which I think is nonsense. If he goes to the finals the next three years and loses them are are we going to start having the conversation about LeBron's a loser? Because he thought you said though. He doesn't go down. It doesn't show much does I have friends who can't wait to jump in in for any little thing. They'll never given credit. They'll say oh you jumps from Team to team. He puts good teams around him. He's lost, you know as many titles as he's lost. They refused to give him credit doesn't matter what you do all this is a fake title, like the attention being like attention morons getting to know the finals in losing is a bigger accomplishment than not getting to the finals at all. And again to go to the Brady debate the Brady vs Montana one more tennis foreign. Oh, that's great. That means he long how many other Playoff series The only got two four Super Bowls Brady's been to a kajillion of them because he wins the AFC team wins The Champ conference title game LeBron is there is the what time? At what at what year which appearance was? It was the put it over the top for you John. Which one was it? That was like 2016 was the big? Yes. It's just who he is and how he's always been his his total game. His game was nearly perfect every single thing that he does defensively his presence his passing his rebounding if he wanted to he if any in his athletic primer, I felt like it give me you could take wrestle Wessel double and you could frigging toss them out the window James could have averaged a triple-double every year of his career if he felt like it every single year without question if you wants that you could get stats. If one year you decided I'm going to lead the league in scoring. I'm going to score fifty a game. He could have absolutely done this year. He he he wants to do at any time. It was almost too easy for him. Like he was passing because he was like, this is going to be boring if I just score all the time. He can do anything. That's he's always been that guy for me because I think honestly he could have had one job. You wanted I'll add this to the longevity is is unparalleled. We're never going to see anything like that again and the lack of injuries besides one year and I thought it was so cool about the title is the fact that bass player like Anthony Davis grew up, idolizing him and was able to join him in his prime and you got the story of him playing on Team USA as a as a Kentucky player coming into the league and that set the stage for him to be able to build that team. That's something people hate about LeBron is that he's orchestrated so many of these teams, but I think especially now that you look at the Lakers and what he's done with the clutch agency, like that's the month and way of winning. That's something that wasn't available to a Michael Jordan and if Jordan had that possibility for dinner for what he is good at that given his ego given the way he wanted to win back if there's one thing about LeBron personality-wise, there's certainly an ego but game-wise. There is a ability to defer at Anthony Davis and the Stars around him like you've never seen a song And people will not knock them for that to they'll say. Oh, we just want to take the big shot or he's hearing he needs look at what he empowered Davis to do unreal. It's a really good point. It's impossible to not let you go. When you're when you're when you are in when he was good enough to play in the NBA when he was fifteen, you know, like it's impossible to not have an ego when you've been the chosen one your entire life and to have this month Spotlight on him. I remember I mean I'm working as a nice night time shift producer at NECN back in the day in LeBron's rookie debut and we're a Boston outfit Boston sports station and I come back 3 and 1/2 minutes of highlights from his debut and people are like what's wrong with you? I'm like this guy man, you know, like, you know and put drawing put Boston on I went down a countdown a YouTube rabbit-hole like not too long ago during the bubble of just a little bron James like as a like high schooler and like the interviews that he would do like he he just like in televised dead. Yeah. Oh, yeah, but like interviews like if you go back keep sounds just like you did then as he does now, it's like crazy like professionals and when he was laying off the charts like I remember like after the lottery it was determined that clean was going to have the first pick he just went up to the podium with his entire team his high school team and like we answered the questions and I think he even said like he thinks he's pretty sure he said he could just start using I'm probably going to take the point guard spot and it's like I think so much Parker's the point guard there. So I'll probably just take that spot totally nonchalant about it like it was so perfect. Anyway. Mm. Oh, I'm sorry going to go. I was going to say we're rambling but what I was what I was going to say Bobby brought up earlier how Anthony Davis stated how you know, he's always looked up to LeBron. But Paul Peirce is something similar. He's like, there's nobody left in a league that will like step up to LeBron James, you know, every player now is a player that looked up to LeBron James and his scared of LeBron James and maybe you sound a little bit this year LeBron James. Kind of bullying his way, you know up and down the court at points and you got a whole new crop. You don't have like the pulp here it is and the you know, the the, you know, you had a Vince Carter but players from that error off the bronze the only one left and he's still doing his thing and I think players are a little bit intimidated. Yeah. No, I put Bobby said about Jordan would have done things probably similar way if you if you received during this time, I believe in that but to that point, I think that's probably the biggest reason if you really boil it down like that's the biggest reason of the debate, right? Like people on the Jordans side are never ever ever going to accept the fact that you can entitle that way. They're never going to accept the fact that the Broncos which teams and and pick, you know, an agent that can bring guys in and let's face it guys thirty-four years old 35 years old like talk to players out there event people just assume they wanted to go out and play for LeBron James play with them Kawhi Leonard and all these guys and we found out that that wasn't the case. So then you know crushed or clutches. Yep. Did what they had to do and you know, the orchestra didn't get any games there and the rest is history, which is I think a lot of the reason why whatever he does from this point for this sort of going to be looked at it differently what you did in Cleveland push the way higher than anything else, you know down 3-1 to come back in that series to knock off that Golden State Warriors team in the way. He did it. I mean, honestly, I think that alone put him in a space-age that one I don't think Jordan popped out on that one. I don't think Jordan has anything to match is that no, you don't have that to do that by yourself pretty much their home. Well, I mean not by yourself you have Kyrie but I mean still that one was incredible before we we could go off on the buffer bit. The last thing I wanted to talk about briefly is you know for for Boston fans this one stung a little bit because it was title Seventeen and again being the old man in the panel. I very well remember winning champ vendor 16 and it being dead. Of this awesome thing and being so far ahead of the Lakers at that point. It was 16 to 9 when the Celtics won that title and granted the Lakers went on after that and they want an 87-page but they've added since then Eight titles. Okay, and the Celtics have had one in thirty-three years so long. It's hard. It's it's hard to make the argument that sells there's still the greatest franchise of all-time. Even though people will want to I may do and certainly when you stack up and down there was one interesting Twitter debate. I saw is it possible does the all Lakers team beat the all NBA team and the chance that the answer is yes, let's not forget that the Lakers have the the greatest collection of talent historically on their roster. It depends how you want to look at it pure talent players or he'll has impact to the to the least. You can impact to the wheels Korean Shack, you know at Center Covina those two of those guys. Just coming off the magic right exactly. Magic Kobe LeBron Anthony off his back up is backing up now. Okay. Yeah, but you're talking if we're talking impact Red Auerbach. What bill will Bill Russell Crowe here we go from barriers like, you know what I mean? Look at it you were talking about Talent or we're talking about impact that there's no other franchise the impact of the NBA the basketball world. Not impact. That's healthy. That's different. I I don't disagree there. I just thought you would you would have seen a bunch of goofing, you know freaking white dude, you're going around the 80s and if if free rental car back, then a couple had you know, you know, the the Celtics Dynasty guys go going at it. We had a few years when the Lakers no. No, I'm not I'm not saying significance in impact the song. I'm just saying the most successful in the greatest that that Seventeen might be more impressive than the Celtics 17 the Celtics won a lot of those at a time when they would have five of the ten best players in the league on their team because of the way that they were able to manipulate their roster. They won so many in a row and accumulated am over such a tight period of time when they just dominated the NBA off But when you're spaced it out over time when you know, there's more teams and it's more competitive and in into the modern era it really hard to argue against it. The Lakers have been the better marketing team that's gained them a word that I think is put players Legends into their lap. I mean we look at how they got Kobe by Kobe just basically diverting themselves there and the draft Shack doing everything you could to get himself out of Orlando and go there. I think it's more impressive to see what Boston's done with a practice facility in the back of Boston Sports Club for so many years being in a cold-weather climate where no one wants to go home. I trading up and draft for the very birds and Bill Russell's and just making all these shrewd moves. Even the latest Jayson Tatum College Bobby back in the day Hellenic College. Yeah. I like it. It's been impressive what they've been able to do and I was complaining briefly basketball around downstairs and and Joe Klein and Laps upstairs. I couldn't believe when I went in 2018 like well this song Are they practice up and while in college they're playing ball when it's been solving should be working out in the stuff. It's you know, and they were winning championships Sports Club. Well, the training facility that also gun does not that sexy either for the Lakers. But anyway, I'll say this though the Lakers may they have they won their Seventeen to sell except Seventeen, but the Celtics 7,000 team. They are the Boston Celtics. They have Seventeen championships in Boston to where you where you look at the Lakers five of theirs are in Minneapolis, Minnesota. So he's got the pain cuz he did the math on this right right. Well well in L so you can go ahead and walk ins and you know move from town to town. But as far as I'm concerned the Boston Celtics are still the greatest NBA franchise in existence. You know what let's let's put it like wage. Okay, such a homer take let's give it a big link is just push the head the next five years which team is going to win more championships down in this whole, you know new universe that we're living in and have been living in it's just hard to imagine, you know, these these destination warm weather cities not being the dominant ones in the NBA for years to come. It's amazing Milwaukee struck gold with Yiannis and he actually wants to stay and they're in the conversation a year after year. But I mean, I don't see how this isn't going to be la la Miami or New York Brooklyn for some combination of the next, you know rest of our lives, you know, I mean, I'm I'm not worried about Brooklyn. Well the fortunate thing for any time those teams have money when three guys get together because they played AAU ball together and when Tatum looks at Bill and he says hey we're buddies and we have an agent we're dead. To go play together. They're going to be looking at one of the New York's the LA or or or or Miami. I mean, that's just that's it Dallas. Maybe Chicago has a little re-emergence, you know, no doubt. That's it. Those are the spots those spots in the Bobbies Point why you're fortunate you've had now three years out of the last however many that a free agent off a top-tier free agent has chosen Boston as a and I think in terms of doing it the old way which rate trading in the draft with making trades traditionally box and still probably as good as anyone at doing it that way they just don't have the accessibility to the other channels and maybe Jason paid him makes Boston that place. I mean that's still a key point that they got him that they made the move and he's become what he's become down to where he could eventually become that guy to attract others. And again, it's it is interesting cuz you're talking about you know, that Olympic showcase, you know, that's stuff like that very beginning and that's wrong. In the Celtic did that strategically? Yeah, like send them all and then here this is where I mean how many allegiances were made playing on Team USA? Roster Landon Donovan Mitchell guys down. And yeah, that's a good one don't know the whole happen and you don't think players were talking to each other no idea. Yeah. So that's you know, they do have that that is their drawing power but we can go in circles on that. There's a ton of stuff. It really is interesting you're looking at, you know, not just this year you're looking at next couple of years. You're looking at that 2023 year where you're going to do a real roster billed to make sure that your position there to have the team and the players that you can surround Jason and Jaylen around going into the future. So they're short term them long term. There's a media needs that are all going to be addressed and a lot of stuff that happens here is going to kind of have ripple effect into the into into the next few years. So it will be interesting job. Things do get cooking a little bit here in the offseason. But well, we'll have more to talk about next week until then. She meets Cano Bobby Manning. I gotta say your name last Joe I guess and just swept up on me or whatever. That was pretty good swerve own from heavy.com wrapping it up here with the garden report. Thanks for watching will be back next.

Celtics Gordon Hayward Marcus Smart Bobby John Johnson Boston LeBron James Danny Ainge Marcus NBA Lakers Jaylen Brown Jimmy Hayward Brown Tatum Kawhi Leonard Michael Jordan Joanne Johnson Anthony Davis
Was Gordon Hayward Tired Of Boston? + Tristan Thompson's Signing

The Cedric Maxwell Podcast

29:53 min | Last week

Was Gordon Hayward Tired Of Boston? + Tristan Thompson's Signing

"Warren is going to a city that would love to have a very good every team in NBA would love to have a very good player. I agree with that. Okay watching them being want to give 120 million dollars off which money give my money or money in this league now, it's a hundred twenty million a big girls love that she So far you're weird asking so I can find you a good player going off Harwich about 17 points a game last year. No question. And he was the fifth option on your team. He was an option on your team. Right? So think of that way he was a v optional you take off. I'm with you Max. I'm not see that's the thing people think that I don't appreciate you understand how important Hayward was. Okay, I get it. But when you think about the Pacers the Celtics news reports coming off both sides offered close to or a little bit over a hundred million dollars. I mean, the the horn is get is that extra? Is that extra amount of money, you know about the move for Gordon Hayward go to Charlotte as opposed to going to someone like the Pacers or the Celtics. Well, even with that I think Gordon goes to the best place he can he can become the number one option. And that show you look at Charlotte. That's the number one and his wife said it best. She said now you'll get a chance to see what my husband can really do. So what she was referring to was the fact that went through Thursday. We're in Hayward came here. There was Caring and then Gordon then going gets her then this time. It was Kyrie was taking them. It was brown. It was whoever else here was Kemba, you know when I'm walking Marcus Smart, so yeah anybody but Gordon so I think that this I think it's a good move for his career and going to Charlotte where I think is a great Market I guarantee you he is going to be one of the the faces of that franchise. Not not only not only making the money but I mean from a standpoint of a good wholesome guy in that particular said I'm with you Meg. I just think it's interesting that you think that played a big part that he wants to be the number one guy. So one way or another he's out of Boston. Yeah, if you look at it that way then that's the case. Yeah. I mean he became he became he became there A lot of times for Gordon Hayward out there was like he was going to track me. He was never getting the ball. He just run up and down run into the corner run up and down and run to the he wasn't utilizing. Think that if I'm looking at the Celtics, I think one thing I would have done maybe a little different with Gordon to get him involved in in the game early on would have been to do him like he Oakridge let him bring let him involved in Bound up all the Gordon and let him come down with the basketball and now be a facilitator set the table and he's more involved in the game instead of running to the left corner or run into the right corner in a lot of times. You never got the basketball. That's interesting. It's sort of what when Denver did with with Jamal Murray ready remember is a wing everyone's like, oh, he's a win classic Wing, you know a year into his career. They put him at the point. He flourishes wage interesting. I never thought about like that because I always looked at him and I think a lot of people did too at the public secondary playmaker, but when he wasn't healthy Max, that's when Marcus Farr had to come. Yeah and I think because of that that's what Marcus Martin only builds confidence, but he became more of a vital piece of the offense whereas he was strictly or more exclusively the defensive guide, but for Gordon Hayward, you know, so you if you look at that way Marcus becomes a wage Office of God. So what numbers what number you see Gordon being what number was it? You said you wanted your fourth option or maybe 15. Let's be honest Max's he has no rules of that was brown page them. There was Kimbo Marcus. So Gordon sometimes is V score on that team so I can I can see why they why he would do that and and I'm Charles is coming in because Charlotte is always one of them. They gave him an offer sheet early on and if you're Utah, Utah, Utah match, right, so I think this is I think it's a good deal for Charlotte and might be in the me see it the right way. It might be a good deal for the Celtics because when things will happen, I think because he's not going to be getting shots now the curve for brown and the curve for Tatum might go up because of their usage you might have to use them more in situations, you know, I mean I think off And we were talking and and I got Nick Joe so he's like, oh, I'm old tell him not to talk to kairi. Don't let don't let take them talk to carry it off. Don't worry about okay just take it take it easy regular people will stick afraid that he was going to resign there. That's when it was a very well. Most Celtic bands were yeah, most of it pains on that bandwagon. That was the thing all my life by the Celtics of lost three key players here. Nobody wants to play in Boston. So now next is going to be Tatum $195 million. Well, I guess it's not a double edged his pay them is Jaden was good. And you know, the fascinating thing about that to me is still looking at Tatum and saying, He's going to be like twenty-five twenty-six years old has already going to be making almost forty million dollars a year man. Where is the ceiling there for these guys is incredible. What's what's the what's the next thought? Well, where's the ceiling for his potential though, you know, yeah, he stated. He said they tell me manage that all the signs of their right if he stays healthy, right or the same things he has to do to me that you know, I think he has to maybe get a little bit stronger in create a little bit more contact because they're a lot of times he's more like hit some but not in them and then these flop it the other the other way. He has to grow his have to grow by not challenging challenging the officials every single time on every single call. No question. Yeah, that's a big and strong cuz I mean, I think officials look at every every shot you take can't be a almost every shot you takes on the inside. He's looking for the contact or you know, he's saying, yep. About so I think he has to grow in that position. No, no question. Yeah, I think that's a big part of his game. But I also think you know to your point what you what you just mentioned about how Jaylen Brown plays a big part of his I think after the Celtics were eliminated of the Conference Finals one of the things I envisioned almost immediately looking ahead to the next Following season was these two weeks early this this group these to have ascended to to to not only lean this group but they're not done throwing whereas I think Kemba Walker needs to take a step back whether it's health related or whether it's you know, just from the the nature that Jaylen Brown has proved himself. Well, the thing that happens if you get t comes in fact, I think then you give like a pickup. Yeah, you you're able to give Kemba some risk cuz he's a he's always been a quality guard his Shifty. She was to jump shot run some floor well, but pag-ibig in there's going to be Tristan Thompson coming in now you have more of a banger and I was talking to Jim Jones who does radio for the Cavaliers and we were off About Tristan the day he said man, he said in a pick-and-roll. He said it's not a better guy that finding the ball and even now he's able to step out and had a little ten or fifteen further and he can make you free throws. So he's he's he and he will get in your behind and challenge you and and that's one thing. I I think this team is lacked, you know guys challenging other thoughts on the floor and I'm not sure if that's brass system when he doesn't want them to do that. But no I just to me great teams have always had guys who were getting your ass right for not playing or missing assignments and it's like I remember perk saying that to me was said no it was cagey. Actually. He was just I was talking to him about perk and he said man, he's one per guy traded. So I'm going to miss that dude cuz he said he's the only dude who come to me and say them and Kevin. Let's go get your ass and get off. Oh, okay. So they're guys like that that you know help your help your defensive posture help you get going off as when hopefully Tristan Thompson if she's kind of thing only thing I worry about is that the I saw something that Kim Kardashian put out some here we come from Boston. You don't want to oh, no, you don't want that. I don't want anyone that energy no more than you know, what the side piece of energy to distract Rich & Thompson, you know, it is first year in Boston, right that that would be that would be detrimental because I think in Boston Max, there's some girls out there that they they're excited about this interesting, you know, just this is a precaution out their tradition. Be careful. Don't get caught up all right here and then making them know who the thing that's different though this year. I don't want to hear no Scandal. That's the thing and the way the game this is this song They're all being women out there round, but still you're looking at now. You know how people are before you have you have a couple of gold diggers that the game, right and this girl was wearing her blouse a little somebody have on the skirt. This year's volume for that. Nobody understands nobody. So this is going to be a little bubble that yeah, there's no bubble bath. There's also nobody in the stands and I think that could be a key also and taking things down. Right? None of us Max and all seriousness. His defense is is obviously the first thing that would check the list right offensive rebounding that's number one because I think the Celtics team is a different team when they have someone like that especially cuz he can't do it was a good option. He was he was with Richard about one of the last year one of the best way to Rebounderz in the league was Tristan Thompson with cancer was too he he was but magic you very can't seem again to the guy thinking he couldn't off. The reason you did not see him because he couldn't have been to pick him roll. That's that is that what does and that's why he was at he he was about waiting to happen right in that situation. So you look at a guy like bam and he's younger than Tristan Thompson, but Tristan Thompson will give you fits because he moves his feet really well. So maybe that's maybe that'll be a you know a step up for you. I like the way you think Miami Heat Bambaataa by oh, well, that's just essentially to be in trouble now, that's essential out. Yeah, I nobody is he just being at a biome in trouble? Okay, so we're on the same page cuz I want to game play a bit for them saying I'm like, oh my God, you got Tristan Johnson and Bam isn't going to score. No. Okay. No, I think it'll take a lot more than that. You know bam is turned into a beast around that Rim, right? But he's not going to make it easy which again I'm signing easier against cancer. It was much easier. Exactly. So this is an upgrade from cancer. Yeah, because some people want to squeeze this in and say, oh no, we gotta upgrade from tights Lookout tires. Wait a minute pump the brakes. I think I still starting center. That's okay. I just have a good year guy seemed really pleased were in that. He's still starting to hear a Very Good Year. Those guys used them. Well running pick-and-rolls. Even Gordon Gordon had a good relationship with ice in the pick-and-roll. So I'm I'm looking forward, you know to some really good things from you know, those particular guys. Use episode of Cedric Maxwell podcast is brought to you by master class right now, when you head to masterclass.com off an annual membership and they'll give you one for free just for listening to this podcast. You don't want to miss out on this opportunity know you don't really I mean masterclass you are learning so many things and exactly what they're saying masterclass Master Teachers could be somebody if you have a poor golf swing could be somebody teaching you who's a great golfer teaching you about golf. Absolutely. You just endless opportunities. He's the one of the classes that they offer is TV writing and it stopped by Shonda Rhimes The Mastermind behind one of the greatest TV shows put together Grey's Anatomy bunch of other movies. Her credentials are endless. And right now he's over the masterclass.com. You can get a free membership an annual membership and sign up for her class or a dozen others. Yeah dozens all kind of things that you want to do in your life. You want to be a great cook you might have a chef that would be up there who would be teaching them how to cook maybe your Thanksgiving meal which is coming up that you getting this masterclass and they show you how to break a turkey or whatever people do whatever Society like, yeah. So so so they and like you say they got you they got you explored your own pace with over ninety class has a train from World Class instructors right now head over to masterclass.com. That's masterclass.com one quick point. I want to make about Gordon before we move forward off. It's easy for another team from the outside looking in to just zero in on his numbers and say wait a minute. How does the third slash fourth option produce that sort of numbers in his veins was not over the top, you know, if I'm Michael Jordan, I'm thinking this is it I got this bag of cash and she holds onto it might as well give it to him. He was all the time. He was seventeen point six rebounds forces. You should know 40% from over 40% from from behind the arc percent from the floor. What what more do you want? You know, there's no question. I looked at I looked at you know, like I said, I thought to somebody and they were like well until you work going up now that 30 million and and this is again, this is a guy at the that's why you think somebody you don't want to go ahead with the guy that's doing the voice. You're like when you think there was a guy the supermarket, that's all okay, the manager at the supermarket big wire says to me thirty million. After now there's no way he's getting that life coordinator was going to get that handsome and that's the thing which really really, you know wild about the NBA. You don't think that in a long way that this information was out before he decided he was going to opt out of this contract. In ways that tampering know it's not you got your body told you that away from Michael Jordan or organizations coming from an outside Source where it come from because it could come from his agent. You know, like that's the thing really come remain. Well, it means you got it from somebody else. You have to get it from Michael Jordan know you have to get it from somebody else. Yeah, I could put something out there for my family age. I'm putting some out there cuz I want to I want a little bit more leverage over the so I think well, let's push the deadline two more days, but it will be time just so you know, there's offers out there. Well, I think that in that way that to me I would consider that tampering if I told you would like hell when Al got a lot of his Thirty million, you don't think Elena we had a hundred million coming from. Yeah, that's in that in that isn't that temporary that was a little dip and gory movies here going outside of 34 million. And by the way, oh my God, he gets a hundred. You don't think he knew that before. He said I'm opting out of this. Possibly what made you know you Michael Jordan you are the conspiracy theory guy. You always have a conspiracy. So all of a sudden now, you're the choice whether to smoke You Don't See Fire. I mean, yeah. No I'm saying I'm saying it's not possible. I'm just saying the lines are blurring and when you get into the details cuz it's cloudy Max what song about that? It's cloudy. You don't know who the source is information nowadays you and you look at wheat or something and go viral. You don't know who's behind the head and say that if you took away he opted out of the thirty four million. Now do you like now? We can't just won't work right now, but you're like that. I mean if there's two parts of this stuff off or I don't think I don't think people are shocked to see someone give him a hundred million 820 is where people like whoa, wait a minute. No one saw that cover. Let's join the million. Then the NBA off peanuts. I mean agreement women. You just had your just thinking about it this way that Harden just turn it down a hundred million for two years. You're talking, you know, not you talking Monopoly money now, that's what you're talking. No, no mega managing know you tell me the time for you to take money in the NBA NBA you're talking Monopoly money. Everybody's like like my child Harold off. Oh nine eleven million or something a year from from the Lakers two years two years. So it's Monopoly so but there's something about well, why can't you get someone like that? Why why is trip to talk to them? Is Monopoly money when you think about you know guys now the way they're getting paid off Main when when somebody opens up their wall and said, okay, here's a hundred ninety-five million you think about you know, you go out to Salt Lake City kid that he gets home 5 million. Donovan Mitchell. So, I mean, it's just it's like it the 20 million dollars to Gordon Haywood. I don't think that was a dish maker to me. Okay. Well, let me go into this video. The difference-maker to me would be the Gordon Hayward season opportunity that I'm going to say like this I think Gordon Hayward, this year is going to be an All-Star. Because okay. Look at that. Why because he's playing he's he's going to be he's the only shooter they really have on that team and he's playing with two guards who are facilitators odd ball kid is a facilitator. You definitely think in Graham is a facilitator. So you need somebody to shoot and coordinate with is that guy? So I'm saying he's going to if you had a choice between here he got the average over 20 in Charlotte. I can see that. Yeah, stay healthy though Max fast, but you know you think about those tests. Well, this is just bad luck man. Yeah, that's the thing. You say both the injury me think about making the leg that was freaky turning he was playing well in the playoffs and then he turns he stepped on somebody's foot again a bad luck move so long maybe maybe he has better luck in Charlotte and then get her, you know don't know this episode of the Cedric Maxwell podcast brought to you by betonline.ag that online is going the extra mile to make sure you can get it on every imaginable this season from game spreads and totals to team player and coaching props. BetOnline gives you more options to wager than any other place online. You can get in on the action right now off. The season-opening bonuses is the best way to start you off wagering on win Division and Championship Futures today head to betonline.ag and take advantage of all the great sign up page. That's betonline.ag been online your online Sportsbook experts. Let me ask you this. How come it's others couldn't couldn't execute that that signing trade and get something in return. What's your honest opinion on that? I just think nobody really knows except Danny and whatever team is out there a sign-and-trade. I know that you know, well now you'll give me the song I'm giving you a girl even a little down the school which I'm hear me better. Now, you know, I'm giving the best answer I can is that you know that nobody really knows the deal and if you thinking about the song This gave him every opportunity gave themselves and gave him every opportunity to do a sign-and-trade because what happened he was supposed to make a qualifying offer, you know on like a Wednesday instead. They said okay we can push it back to you know, there's a Tuesday the third the third Slayer so they were giving it off. Doing this right but but here's the big thing was also trying to trade him during the drag drag the same with you. But here's the big thing that Gordon Hayward is the one that had all the he had other Marvels thought he had all of them are resulting, leverage my but that's the thing. Everybody got mail on said he loses that lever. That's right, right. That's right. So he opted out and he had all the members. He's off of the came back here. Yeah, but you don't think those two days he was like, okay if you can find a better deal or you think there's something that we've some sort of compromise where you end up with assets and I get what I want then go ahead and find them off getting into buying or at least where that he like when Charlotte road and it was done. Right? Right, right. Michael bosy was to write I think you had dogs too late at least all these bands like when they want to page him and all that Mom and Michael Jordan call you offers you the bag when they when you go to say what are you going to say? And you get you're getting a hundred twenty million for three. This is your team. He's telling you that he's dead. What team? Yeah man, go ahead. And so I mean that's a topic to a gym now. I don't refuse I don't I don't think it but again people might and it could you know, good-good home. So but again, it could help them because the growth curve for brown and four. Hey, what might be that much better because now those shot the 17 points got make those 17 points up something off. So is Brown going to get more opportunities to touch it definitely is Tatum going to get more. So those two guys they they could grow in a big way this year by by subtraction by subtraction. Absolutely. What are the chances that they actually allow? I don't know ten percent capacity zero zero chance why I mean Max give me just a phase right now maybe later on they give you the labor maybe later on. Let me let me the same face. Let me say it was almost almost two hundred thousand people who had Covent today. And and when and here here's the topper. How are you going to do that? Because Yes, Serge is really kicking it because you're talking about by the time everybody comes back from Thanksgiving and gets ready to go into Christmas and surge is going to be off the hook. So off the chain, I can't imagine that you're going to have fans in the end at all in theory members that you haven't seen in a while and they all exchanged your hands over there, you know people doing you know, no one knows what they're how they're going to suck Thanksgiving, How are you? How are you spending yours? I'm spending the four best man my family, you know, I think because it's not a whole lot of us, you know, it's just my brother and I you know risking it before Thursday. That's it. No, no cousins. No uncles aunts. None of it. Maybe I can come get a plate outside, but that's not a place joelisa too much and I will you mean girls somewhat no, no, no, no, no, no. No, there's already got the pork right now cooking on the grill off. Every man with you talking about now that that's Christmas. We gotta have a couple of the turkey. Oh, okay. I'm gonna have to bring you news in Turkey is he is he barbecue in Detroit? No, no, not classic style class. Okay, healthy Health now. Okay, Alvin, you know mom's mashed potatoes gravy stuff and all that good stuff, man. Why this is my favorite. I love it. I can't wait. I'm so bummed about this one cuz they gave me an opportunity this year actually the to go home to my mom and dad and that was the like You know with the pandemic did something good. Let me and then all of a sudden you see this and it's like I am a firm believer like everybody else saying that you look you sacrifice. This Thanksgiving to have the next Thanksgiving and then when because you know, you see all these people jumping on these planes and going at homes and you know, they're telling you like right now I know off because the way the rules are they're telling you right now that you know, essentially you enjoy you should bring bring your own food and your own utensils and eating in different room that ain't going to happen no matter how you doing yell across the room over Martin surkis good at this the best mom ever marry going to be the table. We going to say a prayer we're gonna yeah, enjoy each other's company. You know, how was that was that called? Because I remember like a month ago you were you on the fence you couldn't decide if you wanted to go home or not. Oh, no that ultimately make Dad when I listen to the doctors around here. Okay said that now I can't log. And do that be on the safe side be on the safe side Man Came rolled. May I tell you Max? I know I text you before that, you know going to do a little Thanksgiving themed episode, but may I pull up in here and Max got about I don't know what we got like five sweet potato pies Ledo's I got you some soup over there to go got it on soup. You got two two racks of cranberry sauce in my favorite. Jelly. Yeah, man, I know yeah, that's the way I like. You don't even like cranberry sauce right now. Are you not a big fan not a big Wendy the thing about whether you mix cranberry sauce, and I'm for it. So you put it in the I don't do not do any of that. That's like a dessert for me. I know it sounds weird people listening. I don't mix it with the gravy and turning them. But that's what I'm saying. I don't like that. I don't like that taste with the gravy and all of a sudden this moment off some really sweet so sweet. Yeah, I want you or or even with the turkey. I know some people that doesn't belong to that. I don't like the way it tastes is together. Yeah song Oh good. So I'm the only one in my family that eats it. So my mom gets his Justin me for cranberry cranberry sauce. No one touches it. Wow. No wonder my mama had maybe a spoonful that's about it. And she always gets the same kind and yeah after I finished my meal I dive into that. That's what that's the first thing I eat right after and then and then I'll do pile or whatever. It's as a matter of dessert, but that's part of my design can do that as my I wouldn't want that as my dessert you sold it out to that always taste it you deserve sometimes I would taste it in the issue is really like I eat some turkey and my mouth is clean and then I'll eat some cranberry, but just like it won't be no like or are you eating turkey and all of a sudden you stop some cranberry juice? It's got to be several little bit. Yeah. I'm with you on that one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to be the year really is going to be the find in the crazy way for the NBA and I think look at the change and look at the move. You know, it's hard and going anyplace. Look where Brooklyn is doing. What do you think at all? If Harden we think Harden might move? I think it might happen if you do I do. Yeah. But I don't think it'll happen right now. Because if you're Houston, what's the rush? Yeah, you said you always have the luxury of this quick off season. He just said hey, you can just say hey James, we gotta get back to work. You know, we'll figure this out used to have or two more years, but the experiment there has gone. It's yeah, I mean you sent down Tony away he's gone and it looks like Westbrook said look, I don't want to play with hardened any more about a hardened said, I don't want to play here no more. So and all that small ball. They did they've gotten rid of almost everybody and and frankly they they stunk to join up. If you're Houston you going to say look guys, just give us one more crack at it midseason. We've seen this story before right maybe not in Houston, but in other places FL, you know doesn't look good if there are going to fight with each other one of those guys will get off. Maybe it's not changing. Maybe it's not Jake but one of those guys look at this you're saying James Hardie right now. For to go to Brooklyn with Kyrie. And the rent can you see Kyrie signing off on that? I just can't see him signing off on that. This has this has Kevin Durant written all over it. Right whether he sign off on that way. I don't know. I think that sometimes people want to have superpower teams. I mean Kerry already play with but not this is personal Max. Hey Google play one and he wasn't happy. And and and well the biggest thing you're saying right knee is those guys play with the ball two guys play with the exact I read is Bob dominant and hardness ball-dominant. So what are you going to be doing if you carry or if you are during the drinking age 20 and sleep he you know, he gets it off, you know, just that also, but Max the car, he doesn't want to play Third fiddle. He will be the third option, like, go with I recently had a bottle in his hand. He's he's yeah, he's a guy who's bringing that he's got on the brakes what James is fine up hardened his spotting up or moving or I don't think our life is not a get on the side and let me come off to pick and that's what I'm saying. So how does it work? I don't know.

Tristan Thompson Celtics Gordon Gordon Hayward Charlotte Jaylen Brown Tatum Boston Michael Jordan NBA Kemba 40% Pacers 120 million dollars Cedric Maxwell hundred million dollars Utah Marcus Smart Jamal Murray Marcus Farr
Kemba Walker, Gordon Hayward & Celtics Concerns

The Cedric Maxwell Podcast

27:17 min | 4 months ago

Kemba Walker, Gordon Hayward & Celtics Concerns

"Big Girls. Shakes. Scott Every. All right back with episode of the Second Match will podcast I'm Joseph of own alongside Cedric Maxwell. Days away from seeing Celtics Basketball for the first time since March how we feel. Good I. Think one of the things we look at is are the Celtics heavy or or are? They heard or they? Howard air filter right now, and we think about Kimba and talking about his knees near still sword that would be something. Concern me about this team, but if there's one team in the NBA that can afford to lose a key player and might be the Celtics because the way their bill, they are as deep or deeper than any team in late. Seeing the thing that worries me the most about the chemist is I think team is good enough to get through the first round. Maybe even the second round the. The playoffs right depending who they're facing philly will be the toughest team. I think if you have a banged up, Kemba, Walker, but if you've got a Kimber, Ouaga can still go out there. WHO's not going to Miss Games who can still participate in the series? I have a good shot. If they meet the Milwaukee Buzz in the Eastern Conference finals, you need to have Kemba closer to one hundred percent as opposed to anybody else. The problem right now is this that you're going to looking at the schedule? And the Games that are coming up? They're back to back games and that doesn't incur. That doesn't help somebody who has a knee problem. You know when you have two or three days. Razz, then you come, but no, when you play one day all day the play another day. Then you played the day after that it has a tendency to body a new, maybe a little bit more. He's saying that he believes the he'll come back stronger than ever now. Of course, that's most players saying and I think what makes Kemba unique in. In this in this case, if the fact that he has dealt with something like this before, he's been an army, they were talking about you know. Kemba may miss eight to ten games was entire career, and the couple of those they just sat him out. So Kemba Walker as has as always acid, a bail, and this time for him to be shaky. That would be very concerning to me. What's another concern now? The one on the list I'M NOT GONNA. Say Gordon Hayward is concerned, but if we're looking ahead, we're talking about the conference finals. I'm concerned is is concerned. Gordon would be. It would be a concern and they already talked about the possibility of Gordon leaving, so she's doing this in September so and the Eastern Conference finals is slated to start the second week of hand. If you did that, then he's there he comes. Comes back. Essentially, he's going to be out of a series that you would play. They're talking about four to five days and I how many games but they're saying? At least four to five days well could be two to three games special circumstances for players than other players going to start looking at it examining you, you'd think about it. Wasn't it? Homes to player although Huston somebody went across the street to give them some. It some. SCUMBAG y'All. Got To go. On Camera. You think about that. That must be that. That has to be a prison atmosphere. I mean because you've got cameras. Probably download the blaze room taking in everything you do. This is got the hotline people snitching. Do people call up and say hey, man I saw going Howard, you'd have a mask on the other day talked about this is going to be. Probably, the most scrutinize some of these flares of ever been. Because essentially, this is a prison Ko. It's. Not that bad, maybe for rich guy, maybe for both players. Do they WANNA do now you're talking about. You can't walk out of the the bubble. You can't leave it. You can't have people come in to see you unless their family members. If your team wins, you get a chance to advance, and then you can bring other people in. Think about a player leg. I would say Jayson, tatum. She's always around his son and his mother, and his his his father Stepfather airport. He is he around them still the fact that he's around him the whole time. Now you're talking about him. Not being around those people who have been his comfort zone his raw. You'd think about during the time that. Inch wine and Paulo. Posse. They could never do this. And what players? Would have a posse. Things I do remember about this and it just. Tickles me now is. Back during the time Paul Pierce got stabbed, he had some my who was security gap of hobbies. Antoine picked up a guy and then I'm there one day and a game and I? See another gas then I said. What do you do I'm security for who security for Walter McCarty Baltimore. McCarthy now. So yeah I mean it. Back back overthink while he can have security was security Walter McCarty. What. What's the enough? that he doesn't have enough St Louis read. This as somebody tried to attack Walter McCarty. No Maccabi hit is out there during. That time, I don't think that you know Walter was the star NBA players of things they were. Going to get Paul inch. Ron Mercer we had this renewed wherever we need security now for wall. So I think he got a little crazy during that time, but now it is. That is that is S. that's a very very unique thing that you're talking about, could you? Could you do it? Would you be able to do it? I think I could you know in the got here? Lava players, saying the same thing I'm playing for my teammates unplanned for my teammates said this is crazy, but you know you're guessing all the time to be environment to possibly be in the bubble. Possibly being the bubble for the next three months. If you win a championship, you could be in Orlando in that one spot where the next three months and you're trying to say, that's not prison. I wouldn't call it prison. Get maximum relax you. Can you don't have people telling you what to do? And and how women? Restrictions new head. They're telling you what to do. Just like Lebron James said I don't Wanna I'm not gonNA wear the t shirts. Go work in the back of my Jersey that you came up with. Yeah, but that that's optional. Though that's the thing that you want, but this restriction. But most of these players are have not follow been in that restriction baggage their entire career, but you compared to prison man. These guys are out in the yard trying to. Your your your your. Your. Yard you're lifting weight. You looking over your shoulder, you got. His county at Noah's crazy to say but yeah. Essentially, that's what it is. If you're sitting there, saying older, we're going to put a device on you. Detail you if you have Cobra KKOB. That's what I'm saying and so think about the don't have ankle bracelets. With people when get out of jail sometimes whether they did the house, what's? Ankle! Now something similar to that. Result of it negative. I love the transfer. Everyone over there has tested negative. I. I absolutely love it. The fact that there's like them. Working Mba has set a standard everyone else, but steal your any position and I think that the best thing they did was actually having in Orlando because for a while. They said they're gonNA have vegas too many open doors vase, too many side doors too many hotels, too many ways. Sneaky up and down your holiday speaking in. ORLANDO, that's there's the is. Also then told me that there's some ladies somebody in that. Shrine Matt probably try. Yeah. I'm sure they are, but it's going to evacuate, but you have a lot more control in that small environment in Vegas is wide open. You will see you don't have. That kind of opportunity in prison. I Max. Be sticking people in in in prison. You know these you know these singled single. Royal. Not sneaking out of it, they don't have sex imprisons. Would you say that said? I says women are now. That's through on. So they. His lease I mean I just look at it? This is. Probably what it is. You're in a prison environment yet. You have a place you can go. Get a haircut in you shoot pool. Do you have a swimming pool and you have a your booth in southern are having the most fun. A prisoner can have because I'm seeing them playing volleyball TACO fall up there smiling and spike in volleyball over the net. Good all-time shooter that the NBA is going to do everything possible to get their players to be comfortable in that situation the. The job. They're doing a great job but I still would like to see it and I like to see it from afar I. don't WanNa be I wouldn't want to be there. I'm happy as a broadcaster there what we're doing now is we're going to be either at the Celtics Office or overdose studio over in Marcy Boulevard so I'm I'm happy for that, but. But, I'm just looking at the. You have a game to exhibition games, which Jay I'm covering both exhibition games, and then you're gonNa have a eight or nine a regular season game regular. He's eating games seeding games which come in there after that then you go into the playoffs, because this is a a concentration dude like no, I'm not saying concentration like. Is Conscious at Camp No is it concentration of games which I don't think any players have seen except maybe when they had the when the that strike year that they came back and and team, sometimes a plan three or four nights. A you know by now. I'm finally doing something about my weight and my hill last. Awake if eighty eight. I've already dropped about eighteen pounds. And not only. Cater Perkins Take Down About Thirty? Two of the seven thousand. Weight loss. Don't. CARE. No medication. Weakens. Combination of Science Attrition Expert One on One You have absolutely I recommend you co Agent Urgency You'll lose weight starting the first week and Egypt's every week until you get to your ideal weight. Eight six location. During his luck. There's Virtual. Appropriate! Of Your own. Into awaken eighty. Nine to. Your weight loss tr- threw me. A weight. Weight loss. Fisher weight loss program. Boston red the. Let's get back to Gordon Hayward? Your Gordon Hayward you have to make a decision, right? You're not expecting to be playing meaningful basketball in September, so of course they will seem like Robin and Gordon, plan this. Plan to have a kid during the offseason September is her due date. Just come on. What would you do you Syra Gordon Hayward. Are you serious? You think people have sex. Okay all right well. In the fact that like well, we're going to happen to try to have our baby and our baby is going to be born during the. Now. In the schedule, Gordon did it go into this. That He. Exist, so happen like nobody went nobody consider this what they're doing now, but no. You'RE NOT GONNA. Tell me that. Gordon was okay baby. Baby in September as workload in that. You know what I mean. Man. Okay, he didn't okay. He didn't know who's GONNA be making this decision. Training Camp Twenty. Whatever Year will twenty twenty nineteen? I get physical. Nobody knew. Knew anything about this. This is this is. This is the most outlandish the most far out time just way and your your young a lot younger than I am an. Older than you in my entire life. I've seen any incidents or anything anything like this I can't even remember. There's nothing I've ever seen has been like this only thing I can remember. That was that that shook the country like this was nine eleven. Nine eleven in the country and you afraid to kill airplane, but you to go outside the phrase going with you still have that same feeling where everything sort of stops. They stop for a minute is. The closest stopped here in stop in the northeast stopped in New York it is. My daughter asked me. Why are you giving me out of school right there on nine eleven? Why did you complete me? I'm good, you could. We're under attack. But, but that was what we were thinking, but nothing has been like this so the extraordinary. Nature of all of this has changed the perspective of every day that we know that we know who say the we'd be playing. A DEAN BA will be playing for a world. Championship is timber right. Who would say that the schedule now is going to have to be probably changed forever that via games now going to start at Christmas. Okay, so yeah, that's a good way to put it about about this. Go even further. Where the Dow was going great. For, going on basketball is going to be baseball. You know hockey. Four sports are going to be going on at the same time. The same data love it. It's great. That's why you see game seven and some games that finally. Is is is is unbelievable. The things you think about him, I keep seeing that a lot of places right now. This is what I think is crazy. I see a lot of places right now closing. For the entire year. There are. Different Leagues Right now in college was in now we're not. We're not having any winter sports at all. No football it'd be no for. The people who have been die hard football college football phase. Out think that's happened. Kidney Havoc game at all happened. So how can the pros had one? Of the biggest thing the bubble now if you're going hey, with blue decision, we're just trying to get to. I'm going hey, with them having having my third child. I would love to be my teammates, but I think the priorities for Gordon Hayward be. And I think he's probably. GonNa Choose to be his family I at the end of the day. Most players in the NBA in the NBA now are going to choose to be with the families especially when it comes to having a having a child a newborn. Do you think that's an easy decision to make? I think it is now nowadays this during the eighty S. Wasn't easy decision. I think your teammates and management looked at you in a completely different way, but now that you look at especially the Celtics Brad Stevens Zoe's about families. I we have you know families boy on the plane? On the point, but I guess hard decision I. Don't think hard decision their. Eastern Conference finals. The season, no question. I've missed ten games, but I don't think it's going to be a hard decision. Most players are going to choose to be with their families and you got in this day. Just where you're not, you're not factoring in. I'm not a father. I know that. The father, not the father. Wife. All I think that's what this is off. You do. Have Been Happier Jau yet. This is my job. This is what what what pays A. House. That matter of fact this is my job. How did your wife is going to tell you? GotTa guaranteed contract. I'm getting paid regardless. So! You know all this stuff. You're telling me right now. It's going to be I mean this is a crazy time. They're going to be more divorces because. Mean some people they don't like each. But then some people find out there Lumley. Rotating Be Like that? It's going to be. It's GonNa. Be Toward. It ain't going to be like you know. We're GONNA. Let it fly. You know now. You're going to be stolen colon. Going to be stolen called album. Because just the nature of the beast. The everything has changed. You have been home with your family. Most players don't be home with their families never like this never during the summer term. Baby I'll be back. I'm going to work out. I'm going to go into the. Were you gonNA. Co We. UNCORK! Going back. Going into the back yard. You're doing whatever this is. This is different you can't. You can't even. You can't understand the nature of the beast. What Cohen has done to the whole thing about relationships and being with people you, you should never as I, said no I'm single MAC. Years ago. As. A single person out there now hasn't changed your life. Dating Scheme Oh yeah, of course you I think. Hey, baby in a relationship with private. Drastically, maybe walk up. I'M GONNA. Be You right now on the honey? Hey, girl! Are you doing. What now? Man. Did. She really renting when you take the mass. Ave. why should I really run? You told me the story about how you saw this nice looking woman. Down the street and you. was. So to. Movie fluids so so you're trying to say that this. This virus has completely changed the scheme of life as we know in every aspect every aspect. Every aspect from dating to having children to playing games to make money it. Just it's A. It's just a smorgasbord of stuff that's come up. I just was surprised me was win. Gordon said that this was an easy decision. It even something. He spent a lot of time on, and he said he was surprised, and he said his decision was what he said. I'm going to debugged you're GONNA leave no. Surprise Mak Prize. That was hard only time. I think it might be hard though and I will give you this if you plan for world championship. Match. What do you think they're playing for? Your, plan would I'm just saying you're talking about being in a playoff said. Where's the first round? Was An no, if you don't make. Me? Put it this way then hypothetically. Gordon leaves right the lose two games. He comes back. They lose the series. Could you say I've Gordon? Hayward was here maybe we win? This is your teammate right? Who could say I former team I? Don't know how I feel about that. You GotTa look at the same way. The everybody's GonNa make decisions now. That is different when I play. It was the pressure you talked about. When you had you had an injury, it was like dude. WRAP, that up! Let's go. That'd be enough. They were it was that kind of pressure but now? Players look each other going. You're okay. We'll get you back of well. See later. Whatever is the pressure is not there even with management measurement, I twisted my ankle, and during the regular season game in read, our back was like just chomping at the bit to have me back I mean my ankle was blown up because I turned it all the way over in my ankle was blown up and I kept it in the bucket for twenty four hours, but it was I. Is Ready to play. He's thinking short term right owner. If a guy twisted. His ankle was the thing that Garin their high ankle sprain. How long ago where the high in spring? Two weeks thirty two weeks of. have man so. I think the pressure is different. When it comes to your teammates, said you know the expectation levels especially when it comes to your family, look the Celtics I always been. We've been saying this for months all season long. They're top-heavy, okay? One through six one through seven, and you can put them toe to toe with some of the best teams in the NBA, but after that there's a significant drop off telling you, Gordon Hayward at not only been the sixth man for this team. Because of what he does with the second unit people. He's also a defender. He's a distributor. Of Us. Could end up being I eliminated. Guys understand this a huge loss, but that's just one that has to happen I think the Gordon Hayward this made it, and you have not heard one Celtic player or have you heard one that going to hear that all you could twenty Twenty d women in the nineteen eight women, women and your women you trying to say during the whispers. Nobody. Somebody sneak the word out. Somebody was unhappy of you heard that at all was has been the words been. That will maybe correspondence start. Maybe we will maybe. Over Shock. Maybe it was over, but I see it happening right now and I understand what you're saying. Gordon Hayward, but that's what makes the Celtics to me more dangerous than other teams. They could realistically lose. Gordon Hayward four series and still win because they are so heavy I don't. Cars, I don't think so. I really don't put up against Milwaukee. which is, why S A team? I think they're going to be facing public Milwaukee with Gordon Hayward. They could lose that series without having Gordon Hayward in there. Because if they lose those game, one game or two games can make all the difference you look at any team right now. That's what I think is going to be interested. Interested about the whole thing about virus. Who's going to be the first big name that we see? It's GonNa test positive mb out. The bubble is going to be the prime. Will it be you know? Will it be Jaanus? Me Who's going to be that person of a seven year? You know breaking news breaking sports news woes just drop the woge bomb who just came up with several. Suspension. Yeah! Be Out for fourteen days. Who's going to be asking so I think that's going to be? That's that's going to be. The nature of this entire series are lastly Do we see? One of these other players off the bench and merge in the postseason. We're GONNA. See someone like I dunno Rome Langford Komo pig Will we see someone like Robin? Williams become this Defensive Bags have been talking about Robin Williams. Robin Williams can do. Robin Williams had glimpses of brilliant. The he will block shots even got got to the point where he was hitting the low. Ten footer and That last week before down started going on things that you you can you know hops around the room, but so ask why say the Celtics have so many so many wildcards like you know? The length was very well. He was identity and You know. There were times when Brad wouldn't be afraid to go go to Yemen. So I mean that that's one of the things that you look at with this team going. I mean we'll. There will there be a TACO fall. What will he be? You know what he being the mix anywhere down there. He's down there I. Mean You lose some people and say you play against Philli, would you? Would you be afraid to put him out there? Against Joel Embiid four police to? Slow down just with his limp. Put Him out. There was doing. At all the defensive tough new biggest guys I, have you want? Then, you look at the gallic Sydney, who is a good defender who is play, who probably has played Janas better than anybody on this team agreed so today's. South's cards supply the every every team. The Celtics have don't have an answer, but they have somebody who can get into mix you know. Nobody stopped you on this yet, but Simi's on a good job of getting to his body and slow down. I just can't wait to see his basketball basketball in general. I'm excited. I'm excited. Hombre, the anything great. ANYTHING OTHER CEDRIC MAXWELL, plan in one thousand, nine hundred eighty one. Or the Guy Supermarkets in for you play the great game of yesterday and I that was thirty five years ago. I'm ready to see any NASCAR you know. Having to do. So much whatever we get whatever you got right now. Good all right this week. Basketball returns. It will break down next week for you of course. Right here on the subject Maxwell podcast.

Syra Gordon Hayward Celtics NBA Cedric Maxwell Kemba Walker Robin Williams Milwaukee Howard basketball Walter McCarty Brad Stevens Zoe Big Girls Orlando philly Scott Huston high ankle sprain Ron Mercer Lebron James Paul Pierce
380: Should the Celtics Let Gordon Hayward WALK? w/ Dan Greenberg

Celtics Beat

54:13 min | Last month

380: Should the Celtics Let Gordon Hayward WALK? w/ Dan Greenberg

"Today is Sunday November 1st. And this is Celtics beat on the clns media Network the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman episode. 388 Barstool Celtics blogger and NBA blogger. Dan Greenberg is powered by been online. Go to been online today for your free sign up bonus Thursdays. All right, everyone welcomed into another new addition. The Celtics beat hard to believe it's November and that we don't offer real basketball to talk about but then again, this is very unusual year when normally we're not talking about real basketball. Let alone the NBA's finals happening in August. So, you know, let's all just kind of adjust on the Fly not to mention try and figure out when the hell this next season is going to start whole lot debate. Maybe it's next month. Maybe it's the month after we will find out Adam Kaufman with you along with of course even belong Who you've come to know very well by now and we bring in for the first time on the show. At least when I have been hosting Dan Greenberg, you know him as you know, Barstool Greenie, the man has obviously been around the block once upon a time a bit of an unknown. He's burst onto the scene. You can always find his videos his blogs his coarse language on social media. Make sure you give him followed and what's going on buddy? How's it off guys? Driving? Yeah. Yeah, if for those watching not listening, I'm sure most people listening but if you are viewing us chat in here, you can see that Evan is still in the Halloween spirit, which is great to see by the way. Look, it's costume usually cost quite a bit. So I'm going to get the most out of it as much as humanly possible. So, you know, I've got two people again those listening. Yeah Richie Tenenbaum the inspiration this year cuz I had the covid-19. Bradley Cooper from The Hangover they can just fill right and then the last the last one which have been really easy to do was John Wick Wick would have been a really solid one with the hair. I got going on in the beard at the same time. I think we could get figured out that one but I thought Tenenbaum was more obscure that tends to skew my Direction. So and as opposed to like Leading Men like Bradley Cooper and Keanu Reeves. Yeah, right exactly. I I went Luke Wilson and George Anderson movie which is typically right up. Everybody's are like the furniture or self-awareness, you know, right right. Do you do anything for Halloween? They're green e No, I just hung out with my two monsters my two dogs had some candy pretty mellow in my old age of thirty-three. So yeah, it's okay. That's that's you know, we appreciate you know, I went out there that's keeping this safe and socially distant and self-aware unlike all the people that are putting Instagram stories out of parties playing beer pong really appreciate all those people and and setting us back, you know years at a time probably but let's let's dive more into you real quick. So I think again you're well known commodity for among those who follow the Celtics obviously and and your videos in particular probably a place to really I'm guessing grew your social media audience and obviously people have followed on from there. But how would you as someone who I don't know if I'm even using the word loose here, but covers the Celtics because you're not like a reporter a journalist. You're more of a social media personality. How would you describe yourself? What the guard to your coverage? Not you as a person specifically because really the Celtics are pretty much all I care about in the world. So I would describe myself was like, you know, the voice of an everyday fan that just has access to a fairly large website and and just sort of you know, I'm passionate I still go try to just tell how I feel in that moment. I don't have any sources or anything connections. I just see it like any other fan and you know just kind of lose my mind at times. But like I said, the only thing I really care about outside my family and my dog so it kind of just it works. All right, so has as the voice of an everyday fan. What do you care most about right now? Like what what is strong seeing you out with regard to the Celtics as we wait for the next season to begin? Well just today. I don't know if you realized but today was the one year anniversary of Jayson Tatum's game-winner over the next song. All those highlights, you know, I put the video out myself. It's you know, I twisted the knife myself giving you know, the the wounds that are still pretty fresh for how the season ended but I think I'm like everybody else. I'm just itching for them to start. I want to see what you know moves we hear about that. They never end up making in free agency. I want to see what they do at the draft and if Ainge finally, you know trade some pics but not you know, I'm not as Doom and Gloom as I think there's a lot of people are given how this season ended but you know, I tend to be overly optimistic at times to my own fault with regard by the way to them. When is the season going to start just for anyone that has missed this along the way a true emotion Roski Shams. Charania. They're both sending out tweets left to right. These are the news Breakers that we tend to talk about and what which putting out. This is two days ago ESPN sources for the 4th time fourth time NBA in the Players Association agree to extend the deadline to serve notice on terminating the current collective bargaining agreement. The extension goes to November 6th now dead. Which allows additional time for Tots on CBA modifications two sessions on going this weekend? So, you know that just in the last couple of days here and then still a gulf between the NBA in the PA on a start date for the season NBA wants pre-Christmas the PA still preferring mid-January may be right around Martin Luther King Day, which has been widely reported economic issues remain significant, including escrow withholding on player salaries with Revenue down because of no fans. So again, we're not guys that are you know, we have inside information with regards to reporting like when Altima this is going to happen when they came out with the date though Dan of January 18th, Martin Luther King day that made a lot of sense to me like December 1st back when that was out there. When when Adam Silver composure the NBA put that out there. I never believed that for a second even when they said Christmas day, let's start Christmas that seemed early to me and then you get into mid late January that starting to make some sense just in regard to Faith. No, not every team went into the bubble clearly, but those who did and those who went deep into the playoffs like the teams that you know, just wrapped up the finals not long ago the Lakers and Heat, you gotta give them some type of an offseason some page for Gap and I know they want to get underway and they want to have his full of season as possible and the reports out there of a 72 Game season and all that still is Up For Debate and you know, can we get done in time for guys to participate in the Olympics are going to be a mid-season tournament. We put out the first half schedule and then feel everything out and a second half schedule. We're going to go in the bubble or we're going to be at home. Arena's winter fans going to be allowed in there are so many things that way she has the answers to I don't and I I felt this way for a while. I continue to feel this way December to me just seems very unrealistic. I think we're looking at January one best case scenario. But how do you view this with regard to when this thing is going to tip-off? Yeah. It's it's really interesting. Cuz if you remember dating back to when the bubble was going on and they asked Adam Silver about you know a pre January dead. And he was very quick to sort of shut that down then I don't know what happened. Maybe it was the final Revenue numbers came in or the TV Partners were putting pressure on them. Now all of a sudden you heard about this pre-Christmas date which then March 9th a few weeks later said training camps would open on December 1st while the draft is November 18th. So you have like 25 days to do the draft free agency trades all that stuff before training camp and they would only give the teams in the finals 50 days of an offseason, which I just took my head around so I'm of the opinion that will probably be closer to you know, middle of January, but the problem is and why extending the CBA is so important is because of the NBA is going to push back and say, okay, we'll start that way but you're only getting 50 games and the players want 72 games. They could just rip up the CPA and now we have a lockout so it's off. Don't think there's really enough talk about you know, they do need to a Rectify this, you know issue with the current CBA and get that and because if not, what's to stop them from just I you know having another lockout and now we don't have games, you know, who knows when because the season schedule is going to be all messed up. So I'm hoping it's January. I think you know, maybe there was a little negotiating media with all these leads coming out of a you know, December start, but you just you have to be you know, the biggest stars in the leading play deep into you know this fall. So are you really suck start a season and then maybe LeBron or Jimmy Butler other people like that are just going to take the first month off that's going to kill, you know, the ratings and the interest around the league. So it's a fascinating situation wage, but I do not think we're going to have basketball and you know, five weeks or anything. I agree with that. I think you know Adam Silver's in a nice job of trying to appease all the people involved with this. I mean, you have t rights and and Stadium deals and all there's so many people involved so much money flowing around but I think Adam Silver understands that okay, we have to we have to find a way to compromise. We saw how baseball handled their scheduling issues over the summer and they got ripped apart every single wage they in the media for not having a plan at all when you know yet the basketball and hockey, you know, shutting down midseason trying to figure out what to do on the Fly of those two leagues accomplished when they were able to accomplish. Meanwhile Major League Baseball had no idea. I kept going further and further and further in terms of games being canceled and that date the start date of the Year got moved a billion times and everybody could have believed that there was no plan there. So I think I think the one that will say two Silvers credit. It's just at least going to be a plan and I and I think you know ripping that that date up and moving it back to November 6th, when shocked if it's moved back again, but at the end of the day, I do think they'll find a way to compromise between Either before Christmas and Martin Luther King day. I think they'll find some sort of medium in between the two. I don't think we'll play basketball in 2020 again. I think we'll wait till twenty Twenty-One. I think that as you know, damn it out that you can't have these teams have the draft free agency and trades in two weeks and expect them to get the ball out there to put start training camp in two weeks. It's just not that's not a a timetable it's going to work for anyway, so the more time you give some of these players get acclimated get them settled and then you know, they can have a like a legitimate training camp and maybe they can you know have a couple of scrimmages before the season starts and then you know, she's playing games, you know, maybe the first or second week in January, then we might have something that seems a little more concrete. I think you know the pre-Christmas thing. I think a lot of people are like, oh we have to have the MPI Christmas. That's the bank right? I think that's as much as people want them to happen. I don't think you're going to see basketball and Christmas here and that's going to be the best thing for everybody. I mean it would draw what drives all this. It's same thing Thursday. No drove the bubble. It's money. It's it's Revenue. It's making money. It's it's wanting to you know, get as much as you can from your various Media Partners. And that's the incentive behind and having an basketball on Christmas. It's it's a huge Revenue generator obviously and you know not to cut you off Evan. I apologize. Oh, that's a fair point. That's that's what it comes down to and look. I mean, I don't I might have found a finals in August earlier starting off the show. I you know, I don't know what's up what's down at this point, but just talking through this whole thing barred show. It's okay. Look, seriously. It's three weeks like the three weeks ago. We had NBA basketball at this point and now we're talking about starting in a in a matter of a month and half. I mean written know I mean I am all three of us are gigantic NBA fans, so I will only speak for me but you guys way in I'm not ready. Like I know I know I'm reading off. No, it's pretty hip it off tomorrow. Let's get a look at the self is like let's remember. I'm not ready. Maybe it's just because like September was in October start of this month with were or last month, I guess at this point. So November 1st, but like we're just so insane with regard to the influx and return of sports and you know, we'll never have a period of time theoretically like that song again, obviously all brought on by the pandemic and not having anything for a period of like four months to now we're okay. It's like baseball has done the world series complete. It's really all due respect to like PGA and UFC. It's really just NFL right now and will be for the next little while like I'm good waiting for New Year's for the NBA. I don't need it tomorrow, you know what I mean, but I don't know. Maybe it's just me. Yeah, I mean, I don't know I watch the Patriots today and I'm just looking at my calendar being like when did the South's tip-off used to them being better? Yeah, but I just think it's it's a situation where you know, you have to think about the teams that didn't make the bubble and having played in, you know, eight months already. Right? Is it really fair to them to like I guess as long as you can open up some sort of practice and training camp. I don't see the difference of just like letting them get scrimmages in and and get familiar with it. But you know, I just think when the high-profile teams in this league, you know buying the Clippers who sort of choked but like, you know, you have all these hunting, you know, big Power teams make deep runs in the playoffs if you want a good product is already pretty apparent last year that nobody really cared about the load management rules and everyone will just come up with some sort of designation. You know, how is the league gonna Force the team that made a deep run off? To play their main guys in the first month of a season when they've only had you know, you know a month and half break. I just I just think Adam Silver is a realist and he'll say what good is it? If you know, no one's going to watch Chicago, you know Pelicans game in October, but you know, everyone would watch the Laker game and then if LeBrons not playing or Anthony Davis is in place and you know, that's not going to help the, you know, in terms of the ratings and the revenue and all that. So I just I can't see him pulling the trigger. Maybe they have some sort of like early preseason scrimmage is for the teams that didn't make the bubble or something. I just I think he'll come up with another solution to address those guys, but not rush back into it when you know, it's too early. Yeah. I don't know what the right move is because back to your point about that there have been reports out there and I don't remember who had them. But if they really start this in December and guys like LeBron and other high-profile guys that went deep into the playoffs. That's a dead. Have fun. We're not going to play the first month of the year cuz we are not physically ready to come back for that and and play at our best like never mind playing every once awhile and load management yada yada. Like we're stuck up not playing the first month plus of the Year. Silver can allow that. There's nothing there's no Universe in which the U can start with those guys just outwardly saying we're not going to go yet. They said they couldn't they wouldn't you know start off that way, but then you do have all these other guys these teams like you said that weren't even in the bubble that you know, there were the reports initially that they were going to do kind of that second double just allow those guys to go and stay in shape and all that sand that never really materialized and you know, I'm still not sure the guys aren't going to wind up back in a bubble environment again, I you know, I think one of the things and this none of us are doctors or scientists, and we're not going to pretend to be either but I think one of the great unknowns obviously is the potential for this second wave and we're still very much off. First wave of this thing the coronavirus in the pandemic and numbers are you know shooting back up again, depending on where you are in the country certainly in in New England in Massachusetts. They're a hell of a lot higher than they were a few weeks ago and and around the country for that matter as well. Even though it seems like in places like Florida you can do whatever the hell you want. You can have full stadium. So it's not everyone is on the same page. But at this second wave ends up happening or or there's just that confusion between is the coronavirus has the flu. Is it is it just regular cold symptoms of the winter. Nobody has a clue what it is. They're experiencing. I'm not sure these teams can even enter a situation where they're ready to begin the season in their respective stadiums. Anyway, certainly not with fans there but I mean it was a disaster there for baseball for a little while and they figure out eventually and got into a bubble and everything was fine until Justin Turner decide to yeah, and then you know, you had like NFL kind of a the entire Raiders offensive line wage. The covid-19 him. That's the thing like NFL's kind of a cluster fudge right now like that said that that's by no means I earned itself out. So I just I don't see how Adam Silver can look at this and I think he's off a phenomenal job. We'd all agree on that with you know, where they were to where they are now and and just sort of shepherding in this whole thing, but I don't see how they can be comfortable preparing to start a season change next month and a half. Right? And that's the thing. We're talking about a star day. But we don't even know where the games would even be play. You know, I think these personally I was very impressed with how Flawless the bubble, you know was able to be pulled off right you had a couple of guys crossed the line for like some take out and stuff like that. But you know the reason that's right there isn't it was something stressful wings are you know, they were able to get everybody to buy in in this little ecosystem. I don't think they're going to start next season pass. Walt Disney World so you know, how are you going to convert an entire league? We I feel like we would have been hearing about the plans already if they were going to have everything ready to go the 1st of December in a bubble site location. So the fact that we don't even know for sure if it's going to be like in the major leagues where you're going to be able to go from Stadium Stadium, but then you know, you're just trusting I guess like what baseball game is that you don't have an outbreak, but I can't see a situation where you have teams playing different the number of games. So until they even figure out where they're playing. I don't even think we can really understand what the timeline is for the games to actually start. You know, I can't imagine guys are going to sign up for another season long bubble have to do in it, you know fifty days ago. Let's talk about Gordon Hayward while we going on. Hey, hey. Hey before we move on here a week totally discount like just counting the idea of a like a season starts in a bubble where it off. You know, maybe two locations instead of one. We split a different conferences where you have maybe a month to give some people some more time to maybe figure out logistically how to figure this out. Like I I wouldn't totally discount I would discount an entire season long bubble that there's no way anybody could do that. I think that's absolutely too much but could we start the season in a month or six weeks in a bubble? Just throwing that out there cuz I wouldn't be shocked to be like, well it works cuz again how many people how we've all talked about? Oh, the bubble was huge success. The the basketball was the purest sense of basketball we've had in a long time, you know, you didn't have these travel days or guys are exhausted all stay in one place. I just there's there are other benefits of of the bubble that I think that maybe Silverwood Explorer as like a start off season and then expanding out from there to maybe everybody's oh marinas again. I don't know cuz I know I mean, you know, Every state is different in terms of allowing fans inside the Arenas. I know Massachusetts probably won't let anybody to read until we have this thing figured out Florida talked about completely different, right? So I wouldn't be shocked if it gives them a buffer zone to figure out how to handle these stadiums all around the country to figure out. Okay, maybe we can buy some time until February and then maybe we can start allowing a few people in all I know we had like the having fans is a big part of the game and I know NBA is committed to maybe finding a way to get fans into the stadium, but they feel they would safely and I'm not sure if we're quite there yet. I mean just my opinion would know inside information on this whatsoever. I would say that I think they'd explore it just in the sense of doing due diligence and being, you know, having everything on the table and being aware of what the options are. I think it is a last case scenario like absolute worst case scenario to start in the bubble and then obviously continue the season outside the bubble. I think you'd have to deal with wage. The schedule going to look like it's specific to a bubbled. We only have a bubble schedule and then we reassess a schedule after that after some sort of a complicated. No doubt it because you know, you gotta remember like even though it went really well obviously health and safety protocol wiser went exceptionally. Well couldn't have gone better. I mean, it was 0 positive cases of the virus, but it you know players didn't like it. You know, they didn't want to be them they like they missed their families. They missed home. I'm sure they like not traveling that part was probably pretty convenient. But you know just life inside the bubble outside of bonding and all of that was you know, I think was kind of a nuisance to them and obviously everything else going on in the world with regard to Black lives matter and and you know, so many other things that we haven't touched on as a concerns that where some of these players may not even want to come back they just yet while everything is still such a mess in the world, but that's a whole other conversation. I just don't think the bubble is is on the table right now in in the sense of like there's I think there's khong May what do we want to do and and what's feasible and what's realistic and there's Colin be like we're could wheel and if we absolutely have to and that's where the bubble is, but that's what I think about you Dan. Yeah, I just think I mean if there are going to be multiple bubble locations people teams have to start reporting in like a hand, you know, the next few weeks. We're going to sort it out. I think it's just going to I'm With You Adam I think that's sort of break glass in case of emergency. Let's try to at least get it to where people can play in their home Arenas without fans. And if you know the certain state that doesn't allow it what's the alternative to that but like I said, I'm just happy. I'm not the one that has to come up with a plan because it's complicated. But yeah, I mean numbers aren't great right now. I think numbers would have to be bad like really bad, you know the want to do that. But you know to your point I think everything is is out there as far as Gordon Hayward cuz I want to get into some actual stuff pertaining to the team. So and I don't I didn't look on your Twitter see if you did this Dan. Maybe you did because it's it's like an aggregators dream to these are my favorite types of offseason reports right here, and I don't remember Had this woman. I'm just going to read some of these quotes it originated though from Bobby marks who has we know for an office Insider for ESPN Zach Lowe. One of his colleagues. They run the Lowe podcast. And what's Mark said was I think what Gordon hayward's agent is doing right now is canvassing the league. He's doing the Al Horford plan low ads. We don't know that there's a Gordon Hayward Chase em don't know that any of this is happening. I'm just saying there's a little bit of Buzz something is mildly a foot here. And so you have all those headlines of you know, report Gordon Hayward is is thinking of the Al Horford's approach, you know, it may as well say report. There's no new news key word is just keeping his options open as to whether to return to the Celtics and opt in or go get a better deal elsewhere wage ahora for dead if that's on the table, or of course, he could just opt out returned, you know, lower AV longer-term lock ups and money doesn't matter how he plays this year cuz he'll be set off. Thank for the next few years and what everyone seems to think you you know can do is I just trade Gordon Hayward which is not an option whatsoever until at least the option and you know, that that point I'm sure you could ship them out if you want to but you can't just say, you know Gordon words, it's we're going to get ready yet. Cool. I'm just going to leave then like you're just send me somewhere. So the the whole Gordon Hayward Dynamic IP is off season and something we're going to really, you know Explorer here within this show is really I'm not going to call fascinating but it's interesting. It's really interesting because it's the biggest sort of offseason wild card to what next year looks like for them with regard to roster construction. So, you know, just what are your thoughts on on the whole situation? How do you think it plays out? What do you think should be Danny ainge's goal here? Yeah, I mean, I think actually I know I spent way too much of my day trying to convince people. That going to Hayward is actually good at basketball and should actually be on this team and actually makes them better off the stuff exact quote just makes me so mad because you know, he's like, oh there's nothing going on but there may be and it's just like it's just random blogger. Like he says it seems like he's connecting like a somebody so really there's no information, but he's trying to make it maybe there is maybe there isn't I just look at it like this. There's really only two scenarios in where you have to wage board game. The first is if he goes up to age and he says, you know what like I just need a fresh start. I'm going to opt out. I don't want to come back, you know, at least get something for me. Okay fine and that is do you have to trade him cuz you can't, you know, you can't just lose him for nothing. The second is if you opt in to respond contract for 30 plus million and then you get to the trade deadline and Ed. They find out that he's not going to sign the extension. You have to trade him at the deadlines. Just like with Anthony Davis is just like anybody that's on the expiring deal that you're not going to be able to retain. You have to flip it. Like it's just right like the network. The golf range is obviously opt-out do not have amount more than situation and sign back in from maybe I think that is sort of the best scenario for everybody involved because you know, you look at the teams of cat space since the Knicks and the plan it's not teams that if I'm off today, they may not even be interested but be it's like you're going backwards if you're, you know want to contend to be on you know, these winning teams and for the Celtics, you know, they're over the cap anyway, so often not like if Gordon Hayward leaves or they trade them they have Thirty million dollars to play with so it's it's beneficial for them to retain some one of his skill set and of his production dead. Someone that I think last year we saw except his role is that fourth option playmaker, you know doesn't necessarily demand the ball and demand shots, you know, that might limit the growth of your younger players. And before he broke his hand. He was one of the best players on the team. So I think you know, my optimistic side says he'll opt out and re-sign fourteen family deal my gut tells me he's just going to opt into that Thirty 1 million and we'll have to just see how the season goes and how he looks because if he doesn't look great maybe he's going to be more willing to sign an extension off Avengers interested. But if he looks great and he wants to hit the some, you know, the Odyssey the next summer where there's going to be a ton of teams that are sitting up cap space for someone like Otis who might ride out and have all this money to play. He becomes much more of a Flight Risk. You know, let's say Miami doesn't get Yanez and you know, he was on board and they were in on Gordon Hayward and last time around, you know, they're a real threat I was dead. I would say so engine that sense would have to trade him at the deadlines. So my head says he's going to opt in for the 30 million. My heart says, please opt out and sign for like twenty two. Yeah. I I I've done the advocate Advocate. I'm just been the person trying to at least have the audience consider the trade of Gordon Hayward, right? Because it's one of the few ways box. You can really improve it. So I try to get Contract like that getting something back for it right before you get them in. I'm sure there are Arguments for letting Hayward Walk For Nothing, which I'm I'm sure their arguments for I'd love to hear it but I hear the day I sort of agree with Dan like I think it makes sense for everybody. The most sense for Hayward to sign an extension this offseason versus the next one month. I think with Hayward. We we have this unfortunate group of data. That's that just indicates that he's a little injury problem. But as Dan point out like a where is he going to go with these teams have cap space like we're just going to go to where he has a better option to Wavy wanted a title because I think at this point for Gordon Gordon understands that he's not going to be the best player in his life anymore. I think Kemba Walker understands like he's not going to be the best player out of town team anymore. But you have those hopes in your younger in your twenties, you know in your Prime in your late twenties and your throat like you have that like, oh, yeah, I can still be you know, Gordon Utah. Could he be the centerpiece of a chance of G? I don't know maybe but now he gets to Boston and he has two Wings alongside and Jayson Tatum Jaylen Brown both very good, you know, could you say, all right. I'll be happy. Twenty-five million dollars a year as the fourth the fourth piece of a really good contending team. I think a lot of people, you know, you can just certain spot. So yeah, I think I think that's reasonable enough for me to to handle. Like are you going to go down Santa are you going to go to New York or going to go to Miami and have you know, Miami's interesting one just because you know, they have all the shooters that you'd want. Right and and it really spaced it for for garlic Gordon between between Robinson and hero and even with damage Jimmy in the Floor of makes life a little bit easier for you, but I think you look at all the teams maybe like a Dallas who might have a lot of cap space trying to clear Rumor Has there's going to be a couple of teams involved as well. But like at the end of the day does it does it make sense recording to leave Boston a place where it's come from what he knows the coach. The only one that makes me worry is Indiana because there's the attraction of going home and we all know that Indiana loves Indiana, so but it's so but for for that too, I don't know if they even have the unless you were taking discount to go to Indiana wage. Don't know if they even have the flexibility to sign him out. Right? I think it depends on you know, if they're going to move on from all the depot and sort of what contracts if they take back to expiring deals. If it were to happen next season. I just I just look at how the Celtics are constructed and if you're worried about Kemba Walker's knee, you know, they don't really have a backup point guard on the roster outside of Marcus Smart, you know, either grad Wanamaker's, you know, pending free agency. I'm more inclined to say like this team needs him for his playmaking his ball-handling, you know, if cameras and he would have flare up or they have to be thought of cautious with him. You can run the offense through Gordon Hayward. So I just I think fans are are frustrated because they landed on someone's foot and his finger got jammed and you know, the Marcus Aldridge Jersey broke his hand, but you know when I look at his NBA career, he's the guy who plays 78 + games. I'm not going to, you know, get bent out of shape because the guys pinky game You know bent in a crazy Direction, that's just a freak thing to me and I look at what he gives them in terms of how they play and the spacing he provides and you know, obviously he came back a little too early Thursday goal against Miami. He missed that bunny lamp in game six like he has some brutal brutal moments, but I just think the ceiling of like he gives us team potential wise when he's healthy is, you know, every Celtic ventured want that because if he's gone every single person who didn't want Gordon Hayward on this team is going to be begging for the things that he gives them. You know, they're going to need oh, where's the plains? Where is the you know the the versatility on the wing while you had it and Gordon Hayward and you you let him go so they need to bring them back Simmons throughout this trade. I want to get both of your opinions on it. Cuz I've tried like just asked friends that are some extent about this. The idea was Hayward 14 and if you had add a pic you could with one of the other two first-rounders of the table. To transfer to 7 with Detroit cuz I think Detroit seven the Knicks are 8 up to 7 for the 7th pick and Blake Griffin who says no. Yeah, so here in the 14 for Blake in the 7th. Yeah, I did. It says no to that. I think I think I think I think Blake has like three or four more years on that deal. Right? I think it might be too but you're talking about a guy with knee problems right that are pretty like chronic someone where she consider his injuries freak injuries right now is more of a a guy that has you know, who I would consider more injury-prone, but I guess it would depend on who's there at 7 right? Like is it Killian Hayes as long you know the center from USC. So I think that might yeah, I think that might have to play through but I think I think age probably says know without knowing any of that info Green, we're going to let you go on that but appreciate you hopping on I'm sure it won't be the last time for the season does roll around whenever the hell that's actually going to be but appreciate you hopping on giving us your insights man asking you guys are your time Jake Greenberg open from Barstow. Give him a follow on Twitter Barstool Greenie is you know, you can find him and watch the videos and all the takes and read the articles and all that good stuff. Appreciate being joined by Dan. We were going to also bring in a familiar voice and face to to these shows in recent weeks as well since the pandemic special going on my buddy Seth landman South fantasy writer for ESPN who has been you know, this this is different actually is Seth. How are you? Good? How are you? Great. So he normally he sits back in the shadows and we bring him on when it's time and and then it's a it's you know, Fresh Start Seth for the first time though is has been able to you know, real time. Listen to the show off. We taking copious notes on all charges with the Grim that he's been taking notes. He's just like I had to wait forty minutes for these clowns to get up and draining the crap eating grin is a staple to his. Oh, yeah, that's beside that fact. I you know kind of like how what PTI has has reality is stat guy, you know, you can be our like what pissed you off along the way so. Like what what what is angered you in the last forty minutes? I'm not angry. I just like I just want to say that I'd like wish that all of us would do a little more research about like what what it means to have Gordon Hayward on the team like we keep talking about these like what's the word like playing out the string of like what it would mean to sign up these contracts? You can just do a little bit of math and figure out what it would mean. So let me just explain a couple of things to you. Wait actually keep the momentum. I just want to I want to do our ad read and then we're going to play this game. Here because want to remind you folks that as you well know. It's a Sunday right now. Maybe not while you're listening but it is actually a Sunday football's back. Even if you're not at a game this year some are depending on where in the country are wage will be in on the action of BetOnline NFL Futures plus three seventy-five for the defending Super Bowl champion Chiefs the Ravens + 650 little bit back still led by Lamar Jackson and the box and Tampa Bay game. Tom Brady is from playing incredible. He's got an Antonio Brown now plus 6:50 to win a title. That would be crushing Steelers still perfect right coming into the weekend. Anyway, + 756 + 900 the Patriots. It's getting worse by the day plus 6,000 but better if you do believe I just don't know how many Believers are that that number was a little more appealing and + 25000 + 3500 because it actually, you know, you thought maybe they had a chance to do something plus 6,000, you know, that's your indicator that you know what they may not be the rally after all that online those going the extra mile to make sure you can log On everything imaginable this season from game spreads and totals to team player and coaching props. BetOnline gives you more options to wager than any place online anywhere. You can get in a season-opening bonuses today and start off wagering to win division championship Futures everything that you could possibly want to look at and don't forget the elections coming up this week couple of days from now. That's a whole other can of tomatoes. This is your final chance to lay some coin on who the next president of the United States is going to be Biden - 180 Trump + 160 get the Octagon fellows. It'd be pretty had to been online today take advantage of all the great sign up bonus has been online your online Sportsbook experts and in all truth, even if you don't lay money on who the next job is going to be do us a favor do go out and vote that is important regardless of which side you're going with just you know, it is your right use it go vote have a role in in what direction this country is going down. In but no soap box needed we don't have time for it. Anyway lamb and let's let's go back to your thoughts on why everyone else is dumb and not doing math. That's okay. So I just I just want to go over a couple of things like number one Gordon Hayward, if he opts into his deal for this year will be making 34.2 million right around there. The Celtics are at minimum wage with the roster they have in place if that contract is on the books. They are going to be like ten million dollars over the cap. They'll be it like a hundred forty-two million and sorry about the luxury tax and we think the luxury tax is going to be like 1:30 2:00. So the idea that the team is going to be ten million over the tax. It's not going to happen. They're not going to do that. They're going to try to duck the taxes. I don't know if they'll get all the way under but they're not going to stay ten million over the tax unless they do something like unless they're like really going all in a big way so long You could so the idea that uh that Greenlee was talking about about like maybe he opts out in science 422 like I just have a tough time. How many years do you have to give them where that becomes worth it to him. He's going to make it like 34 million this year. He wouldn't have to do that. Well on his next contract to make it not worth it for him to opt out. So and even if you knock them down to 22, there's still like right around the tax and don't have a lot of room to do anything else to the roster at that point. So this is where I start getting into like I like some of the idea a trade ideas like the one Evan was talking about about like the Blake Griffin idea. Like, I think once if Heyward opt in their become some interesting things you can do with that contract life. I was making a list of like you you've heard that like Oladipo and like Myles Turner rumor or like I was coming up with some like fake Rudy gobert trades, but I was really into wage. Jazz think that they don't want to re-sign him after next year. Anyway, there's like things you can do with that contract right but I think the idea that he opts out and re-signs it a lower number. I just I don't see why why he would do that unless he really thinks like he's not going to be good anymore after this year. The other thing is do you want to pay him twenty three twenty four million for each of the next years after this year when they're already going to be taxed. Anyway with that Tatum Max contract. That's about to be on the books Soul. Like I kind of think the team is the team right now with Jaylin Tatum smart and Kemba. Yeah. So like then the question becomes like how do without the roster around that and so that's why I think this idea that losing him for nothing. I think that's like not what's what it actually is what your what you would be losing him and not bringing in at any asset dead. But you would be you would be about 20 million under the based on my math. I think you'd be about 20 million under the tax. So even though you're over the cap off you still have access to the full mid-level exception which is going to be over nine million and you still have access to your bi-annual exception which is like three point six million. So like fog one scenario, like I'll just give you an imaginary one. You could tell you what you think of this but like if he opts out and go somewhere else like they're threatening right? Like that's a cloud rumor right off. Like what about what would you think about bringing in like Derrick Favors at the full mid-level and maybe like somebody around like wage maybe like Alec Burks or like Bryn Forbes from the Spurs or like simple like a a guard who can give you some scoring and then and then you can log Compile some contracts and take in more money in a trade so you could go after targets like Kelly oubre or Jetty Osman or Tomas satoransky or like I just think like it's not losing him for nothing. It's losing him for the ability to bring in like three players who aren't as good as him maybe but fit the roster better and and are like pieces that you can hack moving into the future. So that's like long-winded but I I get like annoyed when I think about this idea of losing him for nothing. It's not nothing there's an opportunity to do things with the roster. So just to clarify here this is and this is an option if Heyward Ops out and signs somewhere else this year. So you're saying yeah, if so, okay. Okay. So your your point being it's not losing nothing you're getting the tax benefit of both under the tent and Luxury Line benefits of the the full mid-level exception which is and the producer. Yeah. So more and more role players who can log About your roster and give you some depth as opposed to another Max contract guy, which clearly you wouldn't have the ability to do well and there's actually two more pieces. There's the the other pieces that if you make you can like get contracts together like you could put if Cantor Ops in that's a contract you could use or the party a contract or the semi contract with the original contract which is like with a team option. So it could have some value to it seems like you can start like cobbling together these contracts and bring back more money because you're not over the tax anymore. You don't have to like worry about life taking in less money in a trade. So it just it gives you a lot more freedom I think too and and then the final piece of it is that you could use the draft picks like right now they're in a position where money is no way that are using these draft picks cuz the draft picks are going to cost the amount of money that the salary is plus all the luxury tax on top of it. So like they're going to be like either trying to trade these draft picks for a few years. Graphics or drafting like draft-and-stash guys, but like it they're sort of like they don't have a lot of Leverage because everyone knows they need to get rid of these pigs. So that's what your thoughts. Well he point that I don't think. The ridiculous I think I think Danny and Brad really like Gordon. I mean, I think they acknowledge the fact that he is not the same players they used to be but he still high in role player and if they have him healthy and they have or after native rather have that than maybe you know using two contracts to get the full mid-level or having that full mid-level for somebody else. I think the argument you could make Maybe is if you cuz as you said like you're kind of locked in with Kemba Brown Tatum and smart. Yeah, so the other option of the Blake Griffin trade that we talked about that becomes attractive if you really like someone at 7 and you're like that guy in this is I've done some jobs for research. There are guys that can make an impact now and then there are guys that there's going to take some seasoning like a look at Patrick Williams as an example like Patrick Williams is an interesting guy at afford to stay home. He's going to need some time, you know to really become the guy he needs to be now. He could be the best player in this draft by the time we're done or it could just be a solid role player. I don't really know but he's going to need Tom where as like if you take a guy And I guess you know a guy like Desmond Bane who can step on the floor right away and play there's value in that but there was a guy like and I keep coming back to either like Killian Hayes off of USC, right, you know, was more of a guy will help you now and but has that everybody loves saying yes band that a bio ceiling and like okay in a way, I guess they're different players, but I can see what you're getting a smaller V and I can stretch the Ford cetera that might be really attractive because that guy allows you to keep your core group, but have a potential emerging player as Tatum and brown hit their Prime, right? So a guy like a con who could play right now. I mean he would play now he's similar to Robert Williams in a few things, but he gives you a big a really springy big down low with the tremendous lengths and he could have the right now, but also have the ability to get a lot better over time. Be a really big part of your future with Tatum and brown. So there's there's that idea floating out there if you're if you're convinced like this is our roster. How do we find ways to upgrade this that Blake Griffin trade becomes someone to track because Griffin, you know wouldn't would have to start for you, but he could play meaningful minutes off the bench during the problem with the Griffin trade is that the Griffin trade itself adds money and with that draft pick would add money. So like I don't think I just wanted to 7 cost more than Fourteen and then the other thing is like, okay, I do want to say Gordon hayward's good wage. I really liked him as a player. I'm not saying like Derrick Favors is better basketball player than Gordon Hayward. What I'm saying is like if part of the argument is him being good, then you need to try to keep him off. And so all those options were you like trading him at the deadline don't really make sense in that scenario. Like the whole point is that you're trying to keep him on the team beyond the season. I don't think Thursday. Pay them Beyond this season. I don't think I don't think that's how they want to allocate the resources they have on this roster for like another dude who plays that position and has that skill seemed like maybe a year ago. I would say that made sense as we've seen Jaylynn and Jason become better passers. I just think what Hayward provides going in his thirties is pretty duplicative. And I don't know I like I guess I want to see them use those resources in other ways. Like like I would just I loved the idea of them having like a reliable bench score or like another like a big who who gives you something different than teice. But but is good for like 24 minutes a game or something like someone with the bulk to deal with like embiid a little bit like an iron pains. Well, look at okay so like so yep. Other names for you to consider if if we have money to like make some of the stuff happen Tristan Thompson, Aron Baynes like oh no no. No, I'm all about meds link. There's been some like Rumblings that maybe a bakas going to go to a contender on the mid-level like wouldn't that be great like and then there's like all these like smaller Biggs who I would love to see like Brad Stevens get a chance to use like like Derrick Jones jr. Who was on Miami as a free agent rondae hollis-jefferson two-player. I'm interested in I like thinking about the possibility of somebody like Paul Millsap like who's clearly overpaid on his current contract but is now a free agent and like thumb is like a really smart defensive player. Um, would they ever take a swing like trying to pry Mo Bamba away from Orlando? Like it wouldn't cost much according to age. Really Listen to I've I've heard that kicked around and if you know, some people have even said if you offered the magic a first-round pick for him, like the one of the later ones they'd say yeah because they're just like there's no way. Yeah, Can you get accommodate this guy? And like that would be something that I'd be interested in just to take a flyer on just to just to see I mean we know Danny was at least intrigued by him in the pre-draft process. He saw the great there's a great photo of like age Baseline at a Texas game. Like it was like blocking a shot with this particular Street and you're like damn day to get up-close-and-personal look at maybe it's new shiny toy here. So, I mean that that would be something that would attract me. I mean, there's been is Harry Giles from child to parent advocate list. If he's a free agent this year. There's the obvious Tatum connection with each other. So I mean that's an idea too. I mean, I don't envy Danny Ainge this year cuz this might be the hardest job. He's had in quite a bit between managing the salary cap the luxury tax and the roster itself wage. It's a lot of balls up in the air and and he has looks got Mike Sarah and another Big Mike's Aaron fan. So that's going to help having my crown cuz Mike's great with numbers. So you've never days these guys decide to do. I think they'll they'll try and maintain as much flexibility as they can. It's usually kind of how Danny goes unless you're totally convinced you this rosters the roster it's going to get you to the you know the threshold and I'm not totally convinced. They are I mean their Landscapes going to change the next year or two, depending what happens to be honest. If you're honest stays in Milwaukee, then that team is going to get better by trying to make sure that Jana says the tools you need to succeed. If you go somewhere else like a Miami or Dallas. Well, then you have a whole new problem. Then you gotta worry about so like this the leaves going to change and you know, Danny's going to have to find ways to change with it and my one argument for for age or the one thing that I know is going to do is trying to maintain as much flexibility as you possibly can log. Other than that, I have no idea. Well Celtics fans, welcome to the spit in the wind portion of the offseason when we all just try and guess and figure out what's going to happen next but that's sort of the fun part of people love hot stove and offseason and rumors and Rumblings and all that good stuff. Probably just say one more thing. Hopefully more than one more thing just cracks me up. So I really just want to say that the Hayward thing is just more complicated than either like there there seemed to be these like Pro Hayward people who are like haywards good we have to keep him and then these people who are like Haworth sucks and I want him out of here. I want to the correct place to be on this is Hayward is good. And we need to see what like maybe there's like better things to do with those resources. Both of those things are true. That's what I want to try to tell you. That doesn't work in today's society know that you're taking by the way home. It's scary say it's the worst take I know Gary on that's what per could tell you. It shows brought to you by betonline.ag. Go to been online today for your free sign up bonus. We greatly appreciate greeny being on earlier Laman obviously hopping back on now that he's you know taking a break from a zoom dating or whatever it is that he's doing we appreciate you hanging out with us and spitting some Celtic stock machine shots 5 or 11:00, and rest off everybody brought its brought what they needed to and I'm just here to moderate so we will do it again coming up sometime during the week next weekend. Either way. We're glad you're here and hopefully by that point in time we'll know something at the very least maybe when the season is going to begin because again that fourth see be a discussion deadline is mentioned earlier that would just putting out there that is rapidly approaching so Seth. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Kevin always a pleasure buddy. Always buddy all of you out there for listening. We thank you. Leave out a birth. A review on iTunes it's always appreciated or at the very least, you know, just keep on listening and subscribe fun of my make fun of us in the comments. Yeah, that's a good way to get our attention. Lord knows the people do it on off the YouTube videos the what's out there so bring it keep doing that. Hey, all we care about is the flex man. Just just make me cry watch for it. Yeah. I've been making fun of Kaufman for over thirty years. Yeah, definitely least give me another reason to cry myself to sleep tonight. Thanks. off

Gordon Hayward Celtics NBA basketball Dan Greenberg Adam Silver Blake Griffin Gordon Gordon baseball Evan Danny ainge Adam Kaufman Twitter Massachusetts Boston Celtics Instagram Patriots Anthony Davis LeBron
Celtics, Clippers + NBA Opening Week

The Cedric Maxwell Podcast

23:35 min | 4 months ago

Celtics, Clippers + NBA Opening Week

"Louise Williams so called. As. Say. Say All patient and. You, know. We. We look on those open a picture of. Where you go to a strategy city. City the holy grail you told me Mandy city end, Elaine and Anna. You'd WANNA. Told me about you told me I wasn't ready I. the. Girls on there you. Go. There you go. Yeah Big Girl. The. Last opera. So Far. Throat. Two MBA to me is. A great job with these games. I mean we're talking about the coronavirus. Is Players Right. Now three hundred, seven players have you know cross your fingers have gone? Have Gone Koroma free. But that to me is huge about I think the NBA his done the right thing by putting them in a controlled environment whereas you don't see that in baseball from said Sydney you can't. There's no way to control that GONNA Finish football to say that I could finish the season football football I mean they've already. Scrub all the exhibition games. and they go from if you can't keep them the NBA, keeping them and I said that before we laugh when said essentially like being in the person, this is a high price prison great to be where rooms and food bicycles. Women Food and all this stuff. This is is A. Great place if you're going to be but man to be in that environment for three months. You Win the championship is going to be crazy because you can see maybe being like even now you think about it, you can be in. Orlando Hallo before you go crazy a week. I was GONNA say maybe three weeks. Through a kid through we. Can can I mean right now? Too Hot August no. Here right now. So. So it was. Through weeks nine. ORLANDO. ORLANDO. Lay around in Chile around chill. These young men who are climbing around show you. We have about two to three weeks good and then alive just. Just where you're talking about a lot of the players right now who are in their twenties it's I'm in their some new teens, Utah my keeping them in that environment for that long. Looks like what you said a few weeks ago. That's why the winner of this she comfort to. Two title. No go through all of this Baluch, we had basle back officially scrimmages but this is this is completely different because these these games matter and they were crazy entertaining from the first night. Lakers clippers held a match which by the way Lebron come with that smoke which I thought he would. Putting the clamps on your boy Leonard. I do think Leonard will bounce back nicely but. He sent the message though so we can start there before the Celtics. Doesn't like. Would you make of the? Lakers right now they're looking pretty good. Good. But you also have to say you know where the clippers clippers have some of their key players microwave. Mitra heroin heroin is much mantras. Mantras Herald did not play in the game and he's a big part where they do swinging Lou chicken wing, Lou And you lost by two points and you need to score when the? Little Wing Man some looming. How you feel about that let me ask you. Let me turn the interview how you feel about where Williams. Man Lou. Lou got caught up. Caught up. Lose. Hoga. Jan Carlos Full Giancarlo. De Carlos his new rapper who wants to make a name for himself. He wanted to be the cool kid to say Oh look I'm in the same spot as Lou Williams against wings imagine city. So it took a pitch he took a picture, put it on social media and that's how this whole thing started but he's he's the he's getting away scot-free with this. No one saying anything about him I'm like look nobody saying he's the rat exactly if he does that out, we don't even know about. How Lucien the been there. S It's go with the person. Less. Go with the first boy they didn't about the ring you kate rat on me if I their true but did you have permission lead the bubble? He did I think he did going to a funeral the permission then leave the bubble but he didn't have no permission to do what? He didn't have to tell the NBA about his whereabouts the NBA gave him permission to leave the. Let's when I do when I leave the bubble is nobody has been. Because you have to have an excuse is, is like Gordon Hayward Gordon Hayward has it has a built in excuse right now with the NBA if his if this child he's about having his wife is born at a certain time, he can leave the bubble and then he has to be quarantined for like five day. But it's all about him and pregnancy and ain't about supposedly Lou left to go to a funeral. Yeah. His grandfather. Okay. His grandfather dies but then you see how are you celebrate your grandfather debt? You gave him that time. How are you celebrating your grandfather's death with a couple of? Lab, dances. Chicken wings. But who's to say Mussa say Gordon Hayward where you to the same God Doing. that. How do you do? You don't die I'm just going to. Put a dollar to a donut or whatever. It might be the same Gordon Hayward, ain't gonNA. At Magic. Eric Gordon and Gordon Hayward up. No magic city with chicken wings while his wife is having this first show and this is celebrating no I'm not going. Not going there. But that to me that that to me ruins it for other people's pitcher inherited medicine. In ruins it for other but you realize that it ruins it for other people who have a legitimate excuse to leave not everybody's going to be looking them all cross add right because you took advantage the NBA. Okay. Your grandfather died you have permission to leave and go do this. But now what you did, you took advantage of situation look I'm with you I'm with you. But if you give someone permission to go do something right and that something is GonNa take I don't know let's say five days whatever the duration was. You really think this guy's going to be spending entire fight with his family. Do I think he's going to be in a imagine city. Own mean why would they do just have? You give him that permission I don't. I don't whatever he was. Give. Permission to do whether, you want to see you gave him permission to go home and be with this. Is is family after his grandfather passed away. Do has I don't know if he's still he's still in this relationship I've heard about this two women. Yes. Yeah. The man has some needs Max Cleland. He's a young single. Well, that's war. Who Girlfriend Yeah Guy Guy. But but you talk among cut off for about four weeks now. You're you're living in that environment that you know and that's what I'm saying that's a hard is going to be on some of these players but to me if you're Louis Em's that you asked me about the Lakers well were they. Lou Williams is two point score twenty points score. And how made you lose? To a strip. You'd loss there in my treads Herro is e least ten point. That's thirty that on the other end now, that's festively almansa that that's that's thirty points right there. That you didn't have on your business compared to Lakers so I don't see the Lakers being this. You know I mean they play well, but I don't see him them being this. You know just dominant dominant you know aptly Davis and Lebron that's that's Hell Combo is this is this whole thing that distraction needing this whole little empty may be a distraction for the team. But. I think it is but I think doc rivers the perfect Gada to be under control of that. I agree with that but I just think this situation's a little trickier because coach there for a year. Okay. How should I put this I? Feel like he's he's created a culture there. That's been for the last couple of years right and a lot has to do with guys sort of know. Okay. These games are important but it's all about the postseason. DACHSHUND dockside doing that here in Boston remember he he would never let the post a big three run up the score remember in the fourth quarter you see Muslims guys on the bench throughout that that or even. Even. Times when DOC rivers had the big three, he leave them home and said now you you. Wrote without going GonNa road trip you gotta stay home for couples. So when you create that kind of culture, if you're Lou Williams, you're like Oh this is straight I could just leaving do this or if you're a heroin argues goal-bound arcus Moore's got to Orlando like we got the rest of his team. Go Get what I'm saying you created this culture where guys like Oh, you know I can go and do my thing and You have to know work your. Nobody knows what you're dealing with because this is you know nobody is ever done this, but they're also has to be alive where you go on now keep game can't do that can't I do that I agree and then what I'm saying is not only for your. Teammates, you'd letting your teammates down. That's the biggest thing because there's a trust factor. You know the week that we want to all be here in Orlando now, but we have chose to sacrifice this to be in. Orlando to compete for a common goal and win the championship and would you've done? Centrally you've turned your back on us. Hell. I'm not getting like a must be unbelievable to be to have one these days where you can. Go and be suspended for eight games, and this is and you lose on hundred, twenty, five thousand dollars and it don't. It don't affect you at all my gosh I mean. What kind of lap dances were going? What would you? The rain in it, how you own the make it. Wasn't about food. Like. This. Whatever he had to do do dude. Magic city in places like their private rooms. Exact proper. Will you you easy you ease out. You in in the middle of the of the floor making they're doing doing that. He's only twenty minutes. That's just about enough time. Your private room you know, Luke Twenty minutes. Louis you got you got you got I got fifty thousand I'm just throwing your. Stack I go in this room, and this is where I'm going to be. I, the stain grieving and trying to get your mind. But that to me is that's overboard. Now let's go on with the cell, but he got caught Nokia. Here Giancarlo I'm looking at you you get away with this. Young rapper smacks you man yeah. Put them on blinds. Yeah. Just enjoy the moment. He's GonNa put everything on social media. Damn. That ain't how they how it works you know everything is done on social media the Estee Jay z's my fair rapper. Wall. Ever met Jay Z or if when I do the last thing I'm GonNa do is take the damn picture with the gay. All right now, you WANNA take pitcher. JC, if you know if I'm having a conversation with them unhappy when You come on man if you will with Jay Z., you'd WanNa take a picture sue. But you WANNA take a picture with. It's unreal. I. Probably wouldn't even post it. I got. Pizza people having impose. Jay's liberties and Daisy. Or you know I know you if you took a picture right now with the. Counting Crows. I think David not. No no fuck them. Counting Crows were you like all hyped up? You went to the show win. That new. You. All my money too much to drink. You know by now. I'm finally doing something about my weight and my hill last already awakened. I've already dropped about eighteen and. Not The only. Cater Perkins Down About Thirty. Two of the eleven thousand found solutions for weight loss. No. No medication little tricks. Which? Combination scientist tricky. One on one. Way Loops I recommend you call agent urged. You'll lose weight studying the first week and Egypt's every week until you to your ideal weight. Awake, at one, eight, six location. During this luck. Virtual. Stays break. From. The comfort of your own. Laws into a wicked eighty. Not. Fill out. Your weight loss transformation. Await your. Weight Loss Take Your weight loss program whether it was the. Celtics Bucks Day, to one, thousand, nine, hundred, one, twelve, they lost the walkie bugs. But man it was the beginning was an Imax yeah it was ugly in the beginning but it around the south out to the point where you saw how the selves can play and they did this without their best player doing. That was one of the worst games, Jason, tatum maybe he's ever hey, i. think there's a lot of takeaways more positive than I mean dad where you had an opportunity winning game, you had a bad you have two or three bad calls. The Yana should have been out the game, the one, the one, the one where he hit. Tyson thumbing and said. Hostile Act and got going now I wouldn't Hossa. The Guy Go bins raft, you hit the. Wires players always hit down. All Year Long. The worst well, Marcus smart has been the other guy on the other side who's done that to people. So yeah, that's true. So so is this him and Matt Bonner? I do remember that but I think the Celtics. Lot of positive takeaways from that, and the fact that Kimball only played twenty minutes. That sixty points, the jet Jason Tatum. Maybe the worst game he's played his professional Jalen. Brown was really good and he was he was hamstring with five thousand. who was a beast in their marcus? Smart was a visa is a Thais play where Ayla? Hitching and that's what I said about the Celtics which makes them dangerous is they can almost lose player which they lost the other day and still have the ability to win a game. Yeah. No. Definitely I just think we got robbed. The seeing the ending of what should have been. Janas being ejected and seeing Gordon Hayward Marcus Marcy close out the that's the way I saw I saw a focus in an hayward I said, okay. He's going to be the secondary playmaker and now that Campbell's gone but also he's getting things done on defense event and then the same thing rang true for smart smart hits a big three point of the game all tied up Janas objected at least I thought he was, and then everything went downhill for the. Shit Shit wanted that call reverse everything changed momentum swung is the bid out of the game or even when Marcus? Took charge on. It was that one told me trail is. Bang Bang call but if you looked at it, you could clearly see the Marcus may get at got out of the Lane Smith further gap there with enough time to take charge and that was huge because that was a three point. In Indiana state in the game get three point play so. Points one year that was points that he got game. Yeah. They didn't play without blood so but Really. I think we'll more hamstring than the you know than than than their their counterparts Marcus Maher says the NBA needed to keep you on in that game and that's the reason why he wasn't. Is there a fine coming? I would think most likely? What's your take? Some truth. There's some They want him in the game. They're afraid to check them. I do agree with that but I think it has to do with the with the format though. I don't know that. I, think again I mean referees again yelled at and they're getting yelled at on state superstars get calls Lebron James said one time before we found out a game in Boston and I don't file out. No I don't. Young. Our? File. First. Time. Janas don't fall out. So Y- honest in that situation I, get them at saying look if the referred the referee had enough. Balls to make that call and then he owns in your face the rest of teams in your face there's no crowd drowning out that noise. Extra pressure from the rest of Asia Person Nationally Televised Games less. Less pressure because you ain't got fans sitting there screaming and yelling issue I think that helps them. Now you gotta face in their scream and yell and you get more you get more opportunities to see what happened because you have more camera angles that that part is true but the other part of you. Replay talking to you I don't care about that. You're going to hear you. I'm GonNa tell you. Referees near Anyway even when even if it is quite, it's like as a player when I was playing that a game, I could hear a I would I could drown now the crowd noise to hear the player saying that the other end the floor because you're so focused on that referees drown out all the information. They can hear that how many s up Tim Duncan get out of the game one town for just smiling. Jerry Crawford. His Game on the bench, he's on the players the busiest the laughing over the game because he laughed. Tim. What He's smiling. So I mean. Now I stayed that he I think they blew the call I, mean the one, the hostile at called that was that was just senior base near I mean ties, he ties with a with an. Open, hand in the stomach Tyson bins over. And then they go we're going to the tastes a hostile act, but was it. that. That's that's it. That's that's a call hostile active. I hear the guy he bins over what should it be called? You've been obligated. So that's why I look at game with the Celtics at think that they they handled themselves well and considering that they're. Young rising superstar player had one of his worst games as a professional. So. There were a lot. There was a lot of stuff to look at from a positive standpoint from the Celtics. Yeah. Phone Brad Stevens. Look. This is great. Build on and you also know, and of course he said this and. I think it should go without being said, but some people actually bring it up tatum is going to be tatum. I'm not doesn't make me think that he's GonNa actually continue to play this way. You know you know he's GonNa break out he's going to break out of it and for me the biggest reason was just because of his approach you saw how many times he finished at the rim or didn't finish but he got to the rim or his pull up the mechanics everything looked right. But the body wasn't going in there as opposed to someone who was if he was fatigued or if you looked out of saying. If he was out of shape or if he's out of shape and he didn't look like he was out of shape because this is going to be a grueling schedule. So he didn't look like he looked like he was out of shape. So I'm not concerned. We'll. We'll see what happens for the next gay. The triple is going to begin jobless should be a good game I mean. You got a bad man over there. Damian Lillard a bad man. You know Carmelo must approve something and they got till they come. Yeah. So they got a they got their full squad coming back and obviously the Celtics, this doesn't affect them but the bigger game was going be the game that they play against Miami That's GONNA. Tell you Miami is going to be up or go down or who they might play so. It's going to be something to be bailed. I feel about Kimble. Kimball was good me in the time he played he looked good. He was then look to be rusty. He may some defensive plays offensively campus campus you're shooting a basketball it just concerns me. There's knee would still be sore after being offered three months yet see that's that's where it comes in for me long-term. I'm still concerned I don't think that concerns GonNa go away until I e C kemble consistently playing thirty plus minutes and I still see the Campbell we saw Friday night because he loved me looks great. It's not like he's lagging is just precautionary. Restriction on. Because you're you're looking at this, you're looking at the big picture is that you're healthy and you read the play or championship Ryan. And that's brass perspective and you know you don't WanNa, below him out in a game that isn't necessarily a game that you need it to win. Right? Know get into the playoffs or anything like that. Yeah. All right. We'll see what happens. Of course you know we'll be back next week. Check out here. Of course, Cedric Maxwell podcast give us a rating hit us up on I tunes and we'll see you next week Iraq ease.

Celtics Louise Williams NBA Orlando Jason Tatum Lakers Gordon Hayward Gordon Hayward Man Lou Lebron James heroin Jan Carlos Full Giancarlo Louis Em Kimball Boston Campbell Estee Jay z clippers marcus
NBA Draft Reaction and Gordon Hayward Decision Day

The Garden Report | Boston Celtics Post Game Show from TD Garden

28:08 min | 2 weeks ago

NBA Draft Reaction and Gordon Hayward Decision Day

"All right, welcome into a draft-night edition of The Garden report John's Ennis here with Bobby Manning Jimmy Toscano. Jose way Pavan this segment presented by manscape get 20% off free shipping code Garden 20 at manscaped.com and guys, let's get started here the Celtics made. Well the nights going to be defined a lot by what they didn't do as much as what they did didn't make any huge trades. They had three picks in the first round and they didn't there's no player movement either will just focus right here this video just on what happened with their pics. Okay, so they made a selection at fourteen. They made a selection of twenty-six. They traded out at thirty. Let's begin at fourteen. They selected Aaron Naismith out of Vanderbilt a shooter with the 14th to June. There was a couple of guys people really liked who were still lingering ahead of Naismith and then, you know, when he was taken maybe a couple other people that the some people like a game Better on the whole though. This seems like a valid value pick in this spot is a guy who can shoot Jose way. We'll start with you. What do you think here? I love it. I know it's not what everyone was off on one of the subject to trade into a topic. But if you look at the subway system needs and what they most what will make them a better team next year? I think his outside shooting is a huge huge off at least in my opinion. I think guys like Jaylen Brown Jayson Tatum, they need that sort of Knocked Down shooter that they could spread the floor and help to get to the basket easier, but I think that if you're the Celtics you pick the best shooter that was waged able to you sure you failed and trying to trade into the top ten, but you you fill a void you you you put yourself in a in a situation to help not only your team as a whole but the two in my opinion the most important players and Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown you want to see those guys continue to grow. I don't think those two guys are done growing yet specifically Jaylen Brown and I think bring in a shooter like this a, sure that grass Has an as-is again the Boston and I think it's going to really help his office tremendously and hopefully it pans out. I think that they did make the right pick though. If it doesn't pan out, I don't think you look back at this pic and think one of the sofas taking but of course people will that's sort of what we do here in Boston, right? So what we do we overreact to the positive and the negative Jimmy exactly. Yeah, if this is a bust I'll totally be looking back and saying what the hell was Danny Ainge still going tonight all night precious precious go you kidding me off again. They got here and precious windows by the heat once again, but no, I mean, I think I went into the I think we all got hung up on, you know, they should trade all their pics or they should try to trade 341 and move up to the top ten and when that didn't happen, I think it didn't matter who they took people were going to be disappointed by it. But if you're going to take a guy 14, I'm happy that they took a shooter on how long it took a player that can contribute. It sounds like you contribute right away. They they need role players. We said that last season, you know, they had one of the best starting lineups in the NBA, but as far as their depth was concerned about, you know, it seemed like the heat came in and showed them what a deep team looked like so this is a player that can contribute. I mean we talked about we just mentioned out here. Oh, I mean wouldn't that be something, you know to get a get a guy dead? That can contribute the way hee-ro did for the heat. I mean obviously that's that's a high high ceiling and Anaya expectations. But why not the Celtics why not a guy that everyone's saying is the best shooter in the draft? So I'm glad that the Celtics are actually the team that took the best shooter in the drafter ones. Yeah, you did a lot of scouting here. Give us the ceiling here. Give us give us give us the best case scenario what the Celtics might be getting. I like Jimmy is comparison to Chris Middleton this long tools here defensively and a good system. He's well set up to be strong on that end of the floor wage is not a great athlete. So there's a big difference between the two of them. I don't think you're going to see him putting the ball on the floor the way of Middleton does. So you're looking at a guy who is compares favorably to Danny Green and Danny Green was a big part of those championships Spurs teams and his crime could defend on one side of the floor nail a ton of shots on the other side. He was pushing Finals MVP in 2013 before the Spurs lost. So this guy off Comes in with all the translatable signs that he's going to shoot. Well at the NBA level he was taking deep bonds at Vanderbilt. He was shooting 87% from the free throw line every year and took an over a hundred looks he goes 52% That's a staggering number from three. Yeah, and I feel like when I when I made the Middleton comparison in the in the in the in the live in the live draft show, I was laughed at but it's good that you could always give it to I'm always give me credit. There may be fraud on here. I give Jimmy a lot of credit that he doesn't deserve. Yeah, seriously, I was going to take I appreciate that so that's fine. So that's what we have number 14 Aaron Naismith out of them about the shooter. Again. This Garden report segment is brought to you by manscape get 20% off free shipping with the code Garden 20 Advanced cape.com come in. We're talking NBA draft here with Bobby Minaj. Yeah, Jimmy Toscano and Joe sway Pavan the Celtics the Celtics are to start we already profiled they made look they they they had 3,000 first round draft picks. They they made two of them. We we profiled their own nation that shooter out of Vanderbilt already. We're going to talk about the second pic that was made here, which was a bit of a surprise here at 26 or some players on the board that people were excited about there's a player or two who went earlier than Pritchard at 26 that maybe some you know, we could look at and say should they have made a move or should they have packaged a couple of pics try to climb a spot or to get this guy instead? They they make the 26th pick they trade out of the 30th. They grabbed Peyton Pritchard point guard out of Oregon. This is a basketball player. It's a guy who plays he has production at the college level, but a lot of draft analysts had him a little bit lower song. In the 30s, maybe a second-rounder could be viewed as a reach we talked about this on the draft show guys you like a player you go get him at this point. It doesn't really matter what the fox say when you're picking late in this first round here so that they found their guy they identified him fills a need. Maybe they knew they were trading that XXX pic. So they already knew that this is the only player that get they wanted him. They knew they wouldn't get him in the second round. So they did it. They pulled the trigger Bobby start with you. You watched a lot. You've actually seen a lot of this guy. Tell us what you think. Yeah. He was a big-time college basketball player for four years at big-time shooter shot 40% in two of his three last season's at Oregon goes for years. There are some big ranked teams. And if it's the bill for Ange, there's a guy who probably reminded himself his Relentless Pursuit hustling attack in the rim pulling up for huge shots. Like this guy takes risk, he's aggressive and he's going to try to make plays at that point guard spot, and he's going to matter how long You you look at some of the pics you take in the late rounds and it's like those guys, you know, they might play a little bit. They might not in the late first-round if Fred want to make us out the door and possibly Gordon Hayward to this is the backup point guard the Boston Celtics next year for now. So they're trying to theme of the night was try to produce more bench points than they got last year. And how many post-game shows did we do? We're we're just like can we get some bench points? Please do is we need bench points and now they got two guys that could do it. Maybe just way know I like that like that Bobby brought that up because I think there was a little bit too that I think you know, we we talked a bit about Kemba Walker's health and what the unit II is going to look like I mean if coordinator will walks he was a secondary playmaker to me. He was the second point guard. Yeah Marcus Smart did a little bit of that but when he was to bring up you that was a big part of who he was on the team. I think that you lose that as well as he walks walks away and and I think the southern thinking about that sure this guy is a pick that you know, you could have swapped that paper a few authors. Guys, but I think the subject in the last couple of years we've seen a pattern of it's not more or less about the skill set of the player but also who he is off the court, right? Who is he in the log what can leaders you what kind of effort we're going to get from this guy? I think all those sort of play more of a role. They value those big value that more at this part at this stage of the draft more than they did in the past. I think they still remember what that team looked like it didn't get along. I mean, that's why I let's face it. A lot of people were surprised that they picked Grant Williams at the time they did but they won't wait a minute this personality, you know, they looked at who he was off the court. I think that's that's part with this guy. And also what what do you mean to the back court and that could look really really thin after Gordon leave. So you want to have someone in there in line just sort of get his reps in I'm not saying this guy came out there and come off the bench right in his first his rookie year, but maybe he's the next sort of, you know, carry my water situation, you know. Different style of player for sure and I think we did talk about this in the draft show. I mean like in a sense of like you're not you're not eager to put them in the mix like you don't mind sending in the mail for a little bit. You know, what they do a trademark and she might happen. This was a need if he sticks and can play any bench minutes. You certainly did need help at the backup point guard position. So again, it could have value even if it is dead, you know tenth man, you know, nine ten, you know somewhere in there eight to ten minutes a game even that makes a difference if you can count on that or if he steps in in case of injury or death and that so there could be some value there. And again, this is type of player you think can contribute early I think with the 14th pick Nick Smith. I think you're counting on rotation minutes early in his development. Oh, yeah different story. I don't know whether you do here or not. But you are looking at a capable player. You're hoping just athletically he can hang at this level Jimmy your thoughts. Yep. I mean, I think I think Bobby and Joe sway both had some really good points and and John you as well. I mean, I think obviously we know Angels trying to trade those delayed pics. I mean just by seeing him give away 30. I'm sure he would have loved to have taken Thirty and twenty six and tried to move up a couple of spots. So what they've taken paid, you know even sooner. I'm not sure but at the point when they pick 26, they definitely knew they weren't taking Thirty so long and was obviously a guy that they you know targeted it at one point. I think Bobby's point about them thinking about him as a backup guard is is you know valid but if he's your backpack point guard game one, I mean you're in trouble, I mean, you know, just I don't think even though he's a four-year, you know, just coming out of college. I mean, you gotta have somebody that's a good point. So the rosters packed say you want to make your doesn't come back as a risk of a downgrade their Pritchard is that guy? So you look at Naismith you look at Pritchard and I Point again to thirteen where Kira Lewis goes an excellent point guard product who fills them? Need and has huge potential there and he goes one spot before the Celtics. I wonder how much they actually wanted that guy. Oh my God. I just loved it Bobby long as I love the Bobbies watch a ton of Pritchard. Cuz that means that he's up at like one am regularly watching the basketball basketball Junkie. Oh, I've seen this guy a ton. Okay, before we wrap it on this just by knowing that they they did trade pick Thirty after making those first two selections. That was a salary dumped Vinny sex pants is tied to that one off of the era was that's an all-time age like Gap like that's up there with you know, the yeah, so he's talked about 5 million bucks over two years of the same as tight for this guy see the drip in and out of the marina this dude man. I think he had like came in like, yep. $1,000 to one day and it was like just took the tags off of it and everything and pursuit. We were we were not we were not ready for Vincent. It was it's really not worth getting it was it's it's it's it's us not you. Okay? Yeah. Yeah notice might be who knows. I mean, they got a little they go rock and roll scene over there. So it's it's it's me, not you. Okay, we didn't do anything wrong. But one of the one of the funniest if it was a trade demand one of the funniest trade demands in Celtic history. Oh, yeah. So that's that the the video game over that pick again. There's a couple of players who would still available that some people like them we could be looking at a what if sort of scenario by kicking that pick out there. I already had you know, you guys know, and which was the the, you know, the Brandon Clark trade down last year. I was pretty broken by preferred him to Grant Williams. It is what it is, but that's where we are. So they pick 14 pictures. Six couple of ready-made we think players who might be able to contribute earlier than later in their NBA careers as for this segment as I mentioned at the beginning presented by may get 20% off and free shipping with the code Garden 20 at manscaped.com. Once again, 20% off free shipping with the code Garden 20 at manscaped.com. The NBA draft is in the book what happens next? We don't know but there's still a lot a lot a lot to be done this offseason. So we're going to keep updating you on all the latest and bringing you more video stick with us on our YouTube channel here and not a draft in the book Celtics made a couple of pics whatever that's not the story. The story is Gordon Hayward is still a Celtic for now for now. We don't know for how much longer okay. The clock is ticking it is officially Thursday, which means today 5 p.m. Gordon Hayward is either going to opt-in or opt-out of the Celtics of his final year of a selfish contract. Or be traded something's going to happen. Whatever it is is newsworthy. So let's break down where we are today some talk about Hayward possibly being packaged and sent to Atlanta which showed some interest possibility of a sign-and-trade. We don't really know Brad Stevens was asked about him in the predef press conference sounded like he was delivering a eulogy. It sounds like they read Stevens man. I know it sounds unlock or maybe he's just saying I'm too close to this thing. I respect the guy enough and I have a personal relationship. I'm not tipping here what I know or don't know so we can't read too too much into a Brad said, however, I think everything else has been trending towards Gordon hayward's not going to be a Celtic long-term whether he opts out and goes and signs elsewhere or is traded but this could happen in Iraq. New hours, you know and that's it. And then we know so guys, where do you think this thing stands Jimmy a start with you? I couldn't even begin to guess where it stands, but I can tell you that. I'm a citizen patio. I'm surprised that it kind of got this point. I mean, obviously the way things have gone with the injuries and whatnot. I guess I shouldn't be but with with me, I just think Gordon Hayward is when he's home. I know it's a big win or a big F. He is such a good fit for this current roster. So what what I really want to know is if Danny Ainge thinks this current roster is good enough to compete with Brooklyn or Philadelphia or if you want to go out west. Some of them is out there. If he does then I think you give it a give it a final shot with Gordon Hayward or you try to extend him you do everything you can to try extend him because like we know it is they'll lose him for nothing if they don't so I mean for me I'm thinking Celtics Hayward try to come to some common ground with an extension and if it doesn't work out after this season or what I used to have the ability to trade him and I don't think it's going to end on a sour note with both sides. So that that's where I what I thought that's what you would like to think happens Bobby Bobby. I know you also want to see them just pay the guy because you think that right now and I don't disagree. I don't know whether he's worth whatever. Pay him. I just know that if you don't well, that's the key. You're probably going to be worse too and the Celtics have to know that also so it just comes down to what and it comes down to tax luxury tax and how far over you want to go and this and that but forget about what they should do Bobby. What do you think they will do? They'll Deal One Way or Another he's not going to walk out. Right if all of a sudden he walks to Atlanta which I feel is a real possibility. The Celtics are going to get something out of that and we've tossed around all of these different IDE all day ranging from John Collins to Clint capela after the Hawks drafted a center in an echo, today. It's not going to happen. They have forty four million dollars in cap space. There's no incentive whatsoever for them to give up anything. So what you get out of it is a player exception. It's not nothing. It's going to be a sizable exception actually upwards of thirty million dollars at the Celtics. They use the salary matching which we know is their biggest weakness when it comes to making trades now, so but that's next to nothing if he ends up going the Atlanta Road and I think that's still a strong possibility the teams around the league. I want to do a sign-and-trade with our weary about signing your Gordon Hayward for three to four years and that's where haywards looking for right now. So again, I'm going to say I've said it before I'll say it again if teams are weary To make that sign-and-trade deal with the Celtics for Hayward for three years then why is it Lana comfortable just dumping that money on him right now. It makes they need a choice. I don't believe there's only one team out there that's willing to pay him and nobody else and that one team has to be the one that has the cap space and is and is there and and that God also wants to go there. I do believe there's a little bit of you know smoke is going on there. I think it's natural though. It's not like Atlanta and Hayward a coronation trying to conspiracy or something. There's a real Suitor in Atlanta. We told you that so we don't know that I mean again situationally, it just makes sense. I know you're big on game you're hearing Atlanta linked to several other players. They can't sign all of them. So I don't think they could they could feasibly if if they were if Hayward was Priority One dead. I believe he would have opted out Atlanta would have signed him and then everyone would know it that's not happening. So I just I don't know. I don't think it's priority number one. But again, I have three sides at work here the team's receiving Hayward the Celtics and Hayward himself. They all have different priorities and those other teams wanting to get Hayward for a fair deal is wrong in the way of what destinations there's just no reason for Atlanta to have to worry about what Boston needs to do to pull off some creative three way to get Hayward if he can just opt out and sign there just doesn't make sense to me. I don't think yeah. No, I don't think I don't think that's where he would really wants to go either and I think that's probably that's true. Yeah, the Celtics are saying. All right Gordon, you know, you know, yeah extend it and we'll both off work and see what we can find something else on another see if we can find another spot for you. That's that's what I believe. I believe that the likely scenario is Hayward doesn't want Atlanta. Maybe it led to does want him or would be interested in at least talking bird. Him. Otherwise he would just go so maybe he's saying either pay me or trade me somewhere else that will pay me because I don't want to opt-in or opt-out and only have two choices. If you opt out in your two choices or New York and Atlanta. He doesn't want either and and what does that say John? He has a little bit of Leverage here if the Atlanta thing was faked no team doesn't suck and I think it's a it's a place. The reason he doesn't is already like the option the Celtics end of anywhere. Yeah. Yes for that seems to be legitimate there needs to be real interests and the Celtics if they thought this was just a bluff and there was nothing out there for him. Would they be shopping them left? And right they'd just be laughing at them and saying signed the paper, but they're usually beneficial because that's where I think they just wanted to get. I think they were both of the same page. I think they did work together, but I think the same time maybe Gordon Hayward got his feelings hurt him. Gordon thought that use a piece for the future. I think Gordon light loves Boston. I just think obviously things have unfolded the way he would like them too. And I think it's a little harder than the others would consider getting rid of him. And I thought you know, a lot of stuff expands would be like, well, why would they you know, there's something has to protect their best interest obviously, but the same time or Gordon Hayward you're trying to work out a deal where okay, maybe I'm not getting the same amount as the first big contract but can we get something close to it? And I I just don't think something's are willing to do that. Now, I think Gordon hayward's Camp is going to threaten the Celtics and say oh, yeah. Well, if you don't do it then well, you know walked out and go off but I think the others aren't necessarily, you know, I thought I thought they could they thought that they could try to come up with a move a sign-and-trade move by by by the draft. And here we are. So right now if you're the Celtics you get the page or at least start to convince according to State. I think that's you have to convince Gordon that he needs to opt-in to prove to the entire league that he can still get that kind of money option. Yep. If the opposite I think so, I don't think necessarily excited about playing in New York or another team or you know somewhere where okay. Yeah, I get my back paid off in three years trying to cling onto a contender and no one wants me. Well, if you if you opt in with the idea that the Celtics might still trade him. He's just still go into its thing. I'm still betting on my cellphone or wherever they treated me. I just have to have a healthy, you know productive season and then I can go where I want to go in the next frequency if 34 million though. I don't know. Maybe I'm safe home if he opts in it's because what's available now in terms of money and a place he wants to go he isn't enough. So he takes the 34 and rolls the dice on the next year. I don't see think I think that's the way if I guess the next minute they're really trying to get Gordon Hayward seventy million dollars that guy who hasn't played a healthy season and since I was thinking early birth Yeah, okay and then happens on one of my employees anymore guys you guys if that happens. It sounds like trouble they could be what I will say is this, you know, I don't know at some point. You have to wonder what it says about the Celtics organization. If o a hundred percent we didn't we get here. No, but I'm saying if you break you bring in Al Horford and is the first free agent that you land and then he leaves you you leaves you for a better deal and you trade for Kyrie Irving and he was an asshole and we all know that but but but you do everything you can to placate him and he leaves you and then Gordon Hayward is another big victory free agent for a team for all of these years Jimmy. I covered the team and you and we covered them. We would always say free agents will never come here. We'd always be scraping the bottom of the barrel getting the drinks at 10 straight guys, you know, and and just what was it a Sheldon who I forget who that anyway, you know, Jason was thinking of birth. Yeah, oh, it's killing me that I can't think of anything up. Anyway, that's what you'd get. And then now you can eat and then they leave you first chance to get First Option first page out. You have three premium players choosing to leave if Hayward off so they don't kneel look Inward and say like what is there something wrong? Like, you know, we know what's wrong here off the we would be feeling this way last year of Kemba Walker never came but he put the Band-Aid over the damage of the 2019 season until April is Hayward is still linked to that situation and there's so much bad feeling there. There's so much that is stem from that in terms of his role in terms of the situation and all of a sudden you're still looking at the ramifications of that awful years of the worst years and Celtics history. It was bad the good. The only good news here is that we're going to know very soon and we can stop speculating but it is wild that we're back in this place in this off season after birth. Year where everything fell apart your entire world fell apart with Kyrie leaving the Anthony Davis and collapsing because Kyrie was no longer here and that was always your plan change into Al all of a sudden leaving in to complete scramble mode having to trade Aron Baynes getting lucky that can became here A bunch of young guys. I know you've broken and mashing this roster together springing in where you'll Tice, you know, making them your Center and it just worked and they got lucky they got away with it, but she came from the finals around barely hanging on and then it blew apart. I mean you got another office where this happens this could this this could really hurt the franchise. So again, Jimmy, go ahead. Yes. Sure. There's no shut down with a cup of water in the condition that he was in in March the team even get to the Eastern Conference Finals. I mean, I don't know. Yes. Yes, and no, I mean all to John's points their true about the birth. Agents coming and going and you have Danny Ainge who I think a lot of players are hesitant. I mean, I'm not basing that anything of my own opinion, but I think players are hesitant to believe Danny ainge's because you know, he hold true. P Thomas whole, you know, yeah obviously trade, so there is that aspect of it too. So you go to wonder what players think of the culture here, but the one thing I will say and where the kids can rest on is that Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are the backbone of the organization and the team right now and they're not going anywhere and if you as long as you can get those guys to sneak into buying into the culture and buying the team you can build around those guys. You got to hook though. I know and again, I've been saying it for the last how long it's you're you're building for their future is not necessarily the team's future not the team's immediate future, but building a roster around those guys they drafted tonight when when Jalen's one Jalen's opt into and twenty-three and the club. Hartz Chicken on Tatum's third contract you better be in a position where you've got space and freedom and flexibility and some stuff around you that you can work with an bility to bring in another player or a third star to keep those guys happy and I think that that's again. They're they're looking many years down the road not just next year in terms of what they need to do, but you're right you lose a big chip if hey, we're just walk out and that money is gone and it's going to be hard to you can't replace it. So we're going to have the we're going to be answer and then whatever happens we're going to talk about life. Probably going to kill Hayward and then we'll kill Danny it's just now we kill ourselves and then we'll kill ourselves. Yeah, if you to cap it off the final pick of the night for the Celtics. Yeah madhar. Whoever wanted, you know what to believe that entire thing out of this video segments brought to you by manscape 20% off free shipping code Garden 20 at mac.com. Once again, 20% off free shipping with the code Garden 20 at manscaped.com gourd word is here. We will find out what ordinary going to do or what the Celtics are going to do with Gordon one way or another by the end of today. Yep. So, thanks for watching.

Celtics Gordon Hayward 20% Jayson Tatum Jaylen Brown manscape Hayward Jimmy Toscano Aaron Naismith Jimmy Bobby NBA Pritchard Grant Williams Atlanta Pavan Danny Green Boston John's Ennis Bobby Manning
622 : Carry On Hayward, son!

Celtics Stuff Live

1:01:09 hr | 2 months ago

622 : Carry On Hayward, son!

"Off the subject stuff lot with your host just the bulb and John do welcome just selling stuff lying on the ceiling s media Network the leading online provider of audio and video coverage for the Boston Celtics in the playoffs in a Conference Finals. You know, John we did our predictions the last time I said to 4 or 5 and 7 for the last two games since that we recorded after game one. We definitely got the split but we didn't get the split the way we wanted it, which is going to require the Celtics to win two stints of two in a row or a stint of three in a row. Or row, that'll be nice. But this is a tough road. You lose game too. It's a tough. Now. I keep seeing on Twitter that the last two off Eastern Conference Finals representatives in the finals were down to and now so it's not out of the question. I think the Celtics really are the better team. It's nice. Gordon Hayward back. It's nice to see things starting to mesh and they're healing and I think maybe that's the place to start even though it's been over discussed. I can tell that Gary Washburn especially is not on your Christmas list. Well, it's you know, I don't think he's doing it maliciously wage. I mean, I think a lot of them on the Twitter World think it's delicious, but I'm just kind of tired of like like the end of that game. You know that Anthony Davis, you know, three, you know the Dead Again, the Denver Lakers game game. Oh, yeah, right the game-winner. I mean he see that tweet and then 90 seconds later. I see it on t v, you know, and it's like I like it when it's a positive thing for the Celtics, you know, but it's it's really kind of a bummer like if you're going to live tweet like I think I think this can be some rules for people in the bubble on the live-tweeting thing, you know, so if you're listening Boston Globe if your list of that was a fence number to forgot out with this number for you. Oh you want to talk about the other night? Yeah game too. And that's a game to the positioning of the yelling and the locker room. And yes, there's you but then felt like the straw that broke the camel's back was the the tweeting of the outcome of the Lakers game before anybody could see it and I agree with what you're saying. It's just unenforceable wage and I have been you know minutes behind or watching the games later, you know several times for various reasons. And so, you know, I've learned to put my phone on do not disturb line because it is when you know the outcome it does change the viewing experience. There is no doubt. And so, you know after I had to ignore multiple text log To just coming in and stuff on my phone when I was only an hour behind and that was last Friday. So I think that was the Toronto series. But anyway, you know, so I'm like I'm like trying to cover the screen as I watch and you know an hour behind and then then this week I learned my lesson if I'm starting Life phone goes on do not disturb. No notifications. Just lock it down watch the game in you know, uninterrupted and so that's worked out and I kind of feel like you gotta do that at the end of close games in the NBA to like you want to kind of Tweet back and forth. But you also get a protect yourself a little bit from refreshing that time line. It's it's too fun for me to to do it to ignore it though. I have too much fun with the give-and-take with the the tweeters out there. You know, like that's that's kind of my thing. You know, it's we're all kind of commercial break into the game then it'll come off a break you would listen. I've got my own ability to like I'm on this and on all of these different levels. I can follow all of this stuff at once and do it all really poorly wage, but the first week cuz that second plane was definitely an issue. But if we go back to the first tweet, the first tweet was definitely Sensationalistic, right and that's but for me actually really glad Gary did that because I think it called a lot of attention to it and it forced the Celtics to make that into a positive light when you make the media and anybody in you know, the general fan base the devil for commenting on your stuff. It pulls the team together. I love the foil action on that. I really do and I think they did a good job of responding in game three, but not as good of a job as they've done blowing freaking leads off in and and it looked like it might actually happen again in game three, so frustrating for them to basically dominate a serious and yet really struggling to close it out. I I don't know. I'm not as I'm not as as lathered up about the the the big lead thing, but I think there's a there's a little bit of small sample size theater going on there and it's not because I think that the Celtics are just amazed close out games. I just I don't know how how much it's that they're you know abnormal or or less than you know below average in that in that category. I mean, you've got a couple, you know, really hung it on the officials right now. Fischels. I don't think that was the case in game three, you know, there was definitely walk, you know plenty of places where you like em, but I don't think that was not somebody Miami shot their way back in and game three in Boston just could not keep, you know their hands on the throat. I mean dead. He felt better about the way game three ended, you know, I definitely felt better about the way they responded to some of the initial come back pressures that Miami had versus what we had sneaked in games one and two but it's still like they stake that big lead and and the first thing that crosses your mind is that ain't going to last and and whether it's Miami hitting crazy ridiculous job or the officials, like leaving the door open for drama, either way, there's a lot of drama around those leads and and it keeps you hooked even when it should be a blowout Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, I think they do keep you hooked. You're not going to you're not going to turn turn it off because only two safe. Yeah nolita say & Frac the Celtics. I mean they were out a game to you know, and they turned that into a game, you know what I mean? So does that mean Miami can't close it out know cuz they all sleep in club. But you know, the solid said that will one-possession game with what twenty seconds left or something 3 point game, you know, and Jaylen Brown. This is a wide open 3 and has already made that then who knows what happens, you know, I so, I guess you know, I think that there's there's a couple different ways I can go but I think any time you get with the way the game is now and the way to ensure that like anybody can come back, you know, nine points is three buckets, you know, you can create easily get three buckets, you know, whereas, you know, that's not always the case and then thought of that if calls are going your way or I mean the Celtics were in the bonus you had Titus and found out I mean, I think they were kind of you know, it did it did feel like they were cut off totally real fast under water and hoping to could stay afloat, you know, and and they did but, you know, Miami makes you work for it cuz they they're the other thing of Miami to and perhaps birth. Is why I think I think some of Toronto's like this too. They are they're tough-minded and they give you their all right, exactly. They're Relentless may never given up until the bomber. So, you know, if you think that somehow, you know, well, there's no coasting 30-second no coasting. Yep, and hopefully if they get to the finals it will walk, you know, hopefully they'll learn all the lessons they need to have learned but but I it's still risky. I almost feel like they needed to be in that whole but you never know how quickly they wind up climbing out of that hole. Hopefully, they don't get that level of of overconfidence, you know, Gordon hayward's back and it did make a difference in game three. Yeah, but but before we boarded I know they were like weights. I had Noah sorry and nobody's talking dog. About it. Nobody talking about it breaking news building stuff uncut inside joke there. This is how I walk in any way. So before we talk about Gordon, I want to build it into the fact that you know, there's three days off because when we did the last show, you know, we did our predictions we talked about things back thing that's been kind of carried out in the postseason or at least one that that has been on if it wasn't the last show as the show before telling you about having too much time off and does that break the Celtics Rhythm and is that an issue and you know, I I got opposed it again because it T's up Gordon, but I want you to answer the first half first, you know, usually the time off doesn't work. The team looked gas to start this series too though looked like they just didn't quite have the you know, the non non driving, you know to attack the paint seemed like they were hoping for an easy birth. Reality games one or two cuz they probably were a little gassed. So in the back of your mind, you're like these three days off could be really good for them Gordon Hayward plates over 30 minutes in his first game and you know what two months or whatever month and half long time and so looks pretty good, you know little rust but really no issues around explosion. I don't think definitely mentally still seeing the game the right way help the Celtics beat the Zone but playing over thirty minutes in the first game back even said ankles or 3 days for them to rest up a little bit. I think from the physical side and it was a very physical series against Philly and it was a very high minutes played in terms of physical series with Toronto with not a lot of time off in Miami had the time off we talked a lot about that after game one, but we also know that the Celtics do kind of get out of rhythm log. a lot of time off so I'm interested to hear your take four games for because I predicted they'd win games to four or five seven and I think you said 2356 was that you're winning games 2356 Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, I think you are right now. Oh, yeah. Yeah true. It's a losing game too was it was a bad one? Yeah. I really thought they were going to bounce back in game two. Yeah. I mean, I I think it's it. It's really hard to get to 6 here. You know, I mean, I think that Miami is going to be tough. They're just too tough to lose three in a row, you know what I mean? And that's basically what we need to do to get more and wait a foreigner over right in that case, right so long but you know, I think that the Celtics they needed that rest more than Miami. Did John Hollinger wrote a really interesting article for from the athletic talking about how Miami's in this great shape and Boston's had overtaxed our starters and so the Celtics are tired of the Heat or not, but now you get Hayward back and then you got three days off and that dog. Of balances things out and how like really the the MVP of mystery Drew Brees because the fact that that that the snake the states are playing Monday Night Football game last night meant that that bump the whole NBA schedule not just one day the two days which then got Boston, you know their game on Wednesday give you that everyday arrest month or two days and in a way the extra two days of rest, and I think they desperately needed it because that that Toronto series took a hell of a lot more out of them than what Miami had taken out of the home key right? There was I'm not saying was it was completely walking apart. But Miami only played nine games, they slept the first round. They only played five in the second round. Whereas the Celtics the only suck the first round sure but those hard-fought seven-game series and I'd argue that officiated had a lot to do with that. And so, you know, you got the Celtics. I think they were there winded and they're whipped and and now dead. You got rest and you got a Hayward to the mix. I mean, I think if you're my mu that's that's got a concern you will greatly going into getting for yeah, I do too. And if you remember after game one, I was wearing for enes Kanter and I definitely wasn't saying and it's Canada play thirty minutes a night but we fight. Yeah, I went thirty-five. I met I met all 48-48 never know almost got Marcus Smart in the pool that guy can play 48 minutes, but seriously, no, but seriously folks know like I just think there was definitely a role for him. I don't know that I had the match up against Kelly Olynyk the way that the details coming out on it. I just felt like there were moments especially because they weren't going inside where the Celtics would benefit from a few extra offensive rebounds since they weren't going to manufacture them on putbacks. Everybody camped out beyond the are worth. And I just felt like that could really maybe help spread it out a little bit and get now. It turns out that the real difference-maker on that was Jalen Brown just the way that he went after it in game three days after a I don't know. We'll call it an altercation just because it's you know, that's the world these days his altercation with Marcus Smart in the locker room. I think it was a fire that needed to be lit for everybody's sake but the fact that it brought out good old-fashioned Jalen to the rim was awesome because he's been shooting very well from Beneath The Arc in the postseason, but he's got a mix it up for this team. He's the best one to to attack the rim and for some reason I mean chemist getting a few of those but what you see from Kemba during regular season being able to get the Nifty layups and and drive, you know into the paint. We're not seeing that in the postseason. I think, you know Phillies and obvious reason defensively the page. Better play and what Toronto was able to get get away with with clutching and grabbing out on the perimeter had a lot to do with that but it's still plaguing them in this series against Miami and that could just be you know, running out of gas. It could be the way that they're defending, you know, Kemba, but he's still just not able to get in there Jalen though. He's finding his way in pretty easily actually, especially on her attacking early in the shot clock. That was the real key for that opening up for him. I think it's I think a part of it is they're they're keen on the defense top of it the top of the key. They they they don't want Kevin to get by to put you know, when they're going Zone, they're putting, you know, either Jack and and Butler at the top so by having, you know jail in the corner or what-have-you, you know, he's able to kind of attack those wage. Seems and you know, he's he's working and they're punishing which is what they absolutely need to do. They got to punish Duncan Robinson, which they did a great job in game three, they they they seem very sweet on that before before they'd even shut him down. I'm like, oh probably yeah, that's the way to stop an offensive threat is to make them a defensive liability. Oh, I put them in foul trouble may come over a play it frustrate them for the lapses on defense. You know, I don't think you're going to sometimes it really works to kind of put that player in the back light for their teammates, but Miami is just way too team-oriented and sound for that to actually happen as a result of making him a defensive liability. But but you can definitely get in this is Danny shot like shit. Right and I'll give I'll give credit to I'll give credit to Duncan Robinson because he you know, he got completely taken out of the game by himself just devastate him defensively and he came back and hit a number of big trees there the fourth quarter as they run up to eight. Yeah. Yeah credits credit to him to kind of get back in it but gave that to me. That's where this is the more the Celtics can attack and use their their physical advantages over here. Oh and Duncan Robinson and power outage. That's where on offense that's where they need to be focused defense. They those are the guys that can't let kill them, you know, but but I think draw gets in particular. I think we saw by the Celtics cutting off the head of the snake and most people would say, it's Jimmy Butler to be brother did not Step Up in game three, I expect a different Jimmy Butler game game for girls Jimmy Butler was not that's that'll be a game through that'll be a great thing. The more Jimmy has to do it the more it takes a confidence away from the rest of the team. That's precisely why they cut the head off a the snake. I love it. If Jimmy starts getting Hauge I'm not saying that they'll be mad at Jimmy I'm saying they'll be frustrated with themselves that they put him in a position where he has to do that and he's not going to be able to carry them on his own not on his own and draw get when he got inserted into the starting lineup because he tricked none got heard they even said that was involved in point for Miami and he's a great playmaker. So Marcus Smart on dragich. I'm a big fan. I don't think Marcus comes out of the starting lineup at all for that reason. There's a lot of discussion. I stay on the the Gordon Hayward they if they if they do decide that they want Gordon Hayward in the starting lineup, then it's gotta be cuz they go their wage. Five and they just try to run the shit out of them cuz that's yeah, that's that's I don't think they will either because then my big time it's but it's it's a good it's change of pace line up to go to the best side. It's it's a clothing line at maybe you know, because you're not going to post up you're not going to you're going to try to get you know, get guys get moved and I think that do you consider using Grant Williams or you know, I think they would tight. I don't think I mean Tice he doesn't match the serious dude, but I really have yeah. Yeah. Yeah way more free tax and the timing on the pick-and-rolls in the first two rounds. So what's happening is it's GM is Bam just such a legit Defender and he's working him so hard, you know deep I mean working Tice to play working Ty Swenson. Is on defense so hard because he's able to get you know inside and he's able to go up over him. Like is that do you think that's what the issue is. It's a good question. I mean, I think physically I mean physically bam is a load. You know, I think that Tyce is not it's not done well with that fact that they've you know in situations they've had a lot of you know going through baggage and pick-and-roll who's done quite well, you know, I think that I think time drawing a lot of fouls and he's really been in foul trouble as in two or three games. Yeah, you know, so I think that that's part of the issue but that's not the war on tice that we've seen in other matchups. I he's legitimately in foul trouble due to his own accord. I think it might be one ticky-tack but right for the most part wage. He's just getting out Matt. So here's my thing on Grant Williams. Maybe he doesn't go into the starting lineup because that just disrupts too much of what they're doing. But especially with Gordon Hayward coming back into the office, but I can see they're not going to roll them out there after two files and if he gets a quick one, you know that happened in the last series and Robert Williams came in I suggest Williams and here's why he's a smart rookie number one. So getting him caught in making mistakes when the Celtics are on defense it's going to happen, but it's nice to happen a lot. Right? And I think that's part of the reason Williams isn't playing he gets caught and there but moving the ball, so well, it'll really test Williams but the real reason I think Grant she comes in is he's got the strength to really push back on bam not a hundred percent. But if he can just use that, you know, I mean, they've said he's one of the strongest guys in the NBA game. Acceptably strong. I think he can keep bam far enough away from the basket that at least all those easy points that bams getting against ice Dome as often and maybe it makes him work a little bit harder for him when he does get them and they kind of have to where that guy down, you know as much as you talk about Jimmy Butler taking over the game and game for home if they don't keep trying to find ways to neutralize bam. I mean, his numbers are outstanding and he sparked a lot of their comebacks with just a little inside play them they go back outside and it's because of Celtic struggle the answer. Yeah, they do. You're right. They are having trouble. I think Grant I think you're right. I think Grant is is a bit of a solution least. He's certainly want to gain three challenge. I see was granted similarly with theis is that you know, the file trouble is just playing with him. He's just somebody who hasn't quite figured out how to play defense without getting without putting the other team on the line and I and in part of that's probably rookie him being a rookie but but he's in the right-center by committee Palm Tysons still going to get plenty of minutes. You have to use your files of ties. You're going to use your fouls with Grant great and you're going to have to roll Ennis to you know, anytime Olynyk is out there as long as you can and and if Miami beats you with Olynyk on Kanner, so be it right? They're not going to win the game on that. That's that's going to be there there. I mean Kelly was so bad and game for free phone. Probably there are counter is just you know, getting Kelly some easy looks you know and pick-and-roll get, you know game out there and pulling pulling can or from the lane. I would think that would be one thing I would try to what I would try to just try to get Kelly going so you can't play canner, you know, cuz he will he'll alone the boards and if you're not going to make if you're not going to punish him, but defensively cuz a lot of times they're putting them there when Gord rogich is an end. So you're not, you know, you don't have it nearly the same issues and pick-and-roll defense as you would would draw ghadge is with anybody else. So yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see the wrinkle cuz I think they intend on continuing to do that because they have to you know, they may be they throw a Robert Williams. Look if if the if the counterpunch with canner and Olynyk is what you say more pick-and-roll and trying to expose can orange. Or can't handle it. Then. Maybe the counter punches just throw something completely opposite and Robert Williams at Kelly Olynyk and then you know, you got a guy that can close out on him and stay with him even if he gets burned because Olynyk may be smart, but he's not fast. Yeah, I think I think you're right cuz you know, Melissa other podcasts like oh maybe probably it's just like there is no way that Robin Williams is out of the of the rotation. And anyway, I mean, I I think that Brad is going to try to views things as much as she can to try to get made different looks so it's harder for spo2 try to drop whatever it's going to be because look Spoelstra is is you know, Nick harisson last round you got Spoelstra misread. I mean, you got two of the three or three of the best coaches in the league Bar None right there between the Stevens throwing Stevens in the mix. You gotta give birth. To spell stressed over an hour. I mean the guy's not tenure he's earned it. He's dealt with big egos. He's dealt with teen ball like the dudes flexible as hell really totally flexible as a coach totally totally and so it'd be foolish for Stevens for like dope. This is who we're going to have and this is our rotation, you know, people love that like idea of like, you know, Brad's going to keep it to seven people and eight people and like dude. No, that's not you need to be flexible and need to be able to throw a lot of people attitude like that because you know, that's just the fewer options ability has the game plan against the easier it is to stop you know, and yes the Celtics have more tabs on but you would send this in the beginning. You know, I think the songs have are the more talented team. I think we're yet to see which is the better team. You know, I think the games wanted to I think Miami was the better wage. Team, they played together better. There are a string, you know, they were really fighting for each other game three. I think that was different Boston was the aggressor and really were more connected still not totally there but I how they adjust on Jaylen Brown is going to have a lot to do with it and and and how Gordon Hayward continues to walk, you know play off of that right like does Miami adjust to Jalen and then if so, we've seen Gordon in jail and play. Well together. Can Gordon be the one that keeps it fresh so that whatever adjustment they have. There's a counterpunch. That's a key matchup. I think the canner Rob Williams tandem against Kelly Olynyk just so that they have the Williams and tice ability, but I don't think they're going to do much with bam, you know, and and and if they're if they can do anything else To bring you know to to limit bands impact. I think it'll go a long way. I think it'll go a really long way cuz I just so good on the perimeter. Look at me shooters. They have hero Robinson. I mean Butler is not known for being a good shooter. But if they need a clutch one, you know where they're going, you know, and they did it and yeah, go ahead. I was just saying that but that's like that to me is the problem is we have Miami can say you do we go with bam, right? We we try we won't be able to be our guy. But that means then that to do that that means you can have Shooters on the floor, right? Because otherwise you're going to help walk the shooters and you know jail in a special edition is a guy with size and and who can really warm smart handheld they play right? But you just Floyd my point and I'll get loose. Yep right with my point. Is that okay? But if Jalen is Bully balling Harrow and Goran dragic and Duncan Robinson or same with team for that matter, then you're going to say well jeez. We got to get a holder on hold on. So, maybe we got to play with all we're going to put Jae Crowder out there more we gotta you know play, you know, Derrick Jones jr. But if you're doing that now you're hurting your offense and now you're not going to have wage opportunities for bam to score the ball. So it becomes this thing where like jail and to really be the linchpin here of what exactly can Spoelstra do that pulls. Jail, and you know limits his Effectiveness, but that also in return Hertz Hertz Miami's offense to such a degree to where now the soldiers could help off to create a degree. So it's you know, this is the these are the things that that I spoke against the big box and somehow he has to figure that out because wage you know, while those guys can let it up here. Oh and and Duncan Robinson if Jalen has a chance to be Jaylen Brown, he's going to be a star by the end of these these six or seven games. Yeah, we yeah, no doubt. All right, not that he is it already but you get my point. No, I totally get your point and all right. So what else should we cover before we close out other than the fact that Erik Spoelstra does kind of look a little bit like Gollum. A precious I'm not going to be the first person who said that I never really saw that actually that's how long will you will especially as he loses more hair. Wow. It's the it's a deep-set buggy eyes. It's the blank page. So let's stare dude, and I'm not really trying to crap on Spoelstra. I really actually I don't have an ounce of hate for him really don't even when we had to play him wage and it was a mother, you know, I still didn't dislike him. You know, I just like a lot of the players on the eat, but I did not dislike him. It's been eight years and some of the state has not gone away. I do have one other thing the tweet. I can't remember who shot it out there, but it definitely raised my cackles if the Lakers jersey. Go to the finals Rajon. Rondo will be the first player to go to the finals in the starting lineup with both the Lakers and the Celtics and and he definitely was it the starting lineup or was it the no, I think it was win a championship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah can't happen absolutely cannot be allowed. I mean, I realize nothing would be better for the bubble than like your Celtics ten years later, but it can't happen. I mean, I don't mind if the Lakers get there and we beat their ass but I got a serious issue with Rhonda when Anna title with both teams, especially yeah, it's Gotta It's gotta be a no-go it it cannot be allowed. I mean, you know how I feel about Rondo. So, you know, I'm I'm you're fine you're rooting for him again in the finals year old Rondo off. So this Lakers go down in history. Sorry you asked for that you asked for that. I I don't know if I asked for that but I asked for something probably name is Rhonda your precious. I love you. My precious dude. I said he age though real quick and it's not the dreads. It's the wrinkles his face. Like it almost happened in the last nine months, right like he went from being this perennial little kid looking dude to like old man old age. Really? What was that? Benjamin Button? He's like he did a Benjamin Button like, you know, this is your 14 for him. I mean, this is you know, he was a kid. This is this is this is a long career at age fourteen. This is that's no joke, you know agree, I don't even know where I was going with that. Anyway, there's really nowhere to go off. Have really loose you only need to go into turn three. You probably should have towed down. We're going to see what happens. You might go into the we'll see what happens. We went towards the wall. It could happen. You know, I think you know, look I think that the that Rondo I mean I obviously have a one eye on that on that that series, you know, because obviously we have a stating lost dog was that got spoiled for you? That was tough. Yeah. I was so yo cuz you what you need the Celtics need I mean, it's such a huge sense of playing small money, like stuffed them to you know what I mean, but the ball stays I think sat around and kick it out to a d I think maybe no matter who wins the East I'm rooting for whoever wins the Eastover whoever whoever's left. I think I'm at Denver's not hard to root for I might for Denver over Miami, you know, you don't have has a really really sore spot in my mind of Denver is that game? Not the season but last season where the Celtics went to Denver and Jamal Murray went absolutely off and he had all kinds of Swag and we just yelling at everybody and everything and that was a game where Kyrie threw the ball into the rafters for whatever got fined for it. But I was so annoyed with Jamal Murray that I I couldn't take it. So I love Jamal Murray God as much as you love Rondo, but that was my other guy. I was like, he was Plan B on Jaylen Brown in my mind. I was like if she can't get Jalen you gotta go Jamal Murray, but at the time I was like you just don't need another guard was my mentality and I definitely wanted, you know a wing in an athletic wing and one that could attack the birth. Basket, you know and so those bye-bye to work out for us. We've Jamal Murray would have worked out. We probably would have been in a circle with either one of those. Yeah, you know, but I don't think you know, but you know, it's still these guys and you know, it's all you know, why don't we get this guy? You know, if we only offer after this guy he would have been this and you know, the whole thing like we would here with Tyler hero and then take 20 or about it with stupid Bill Simmons and title page. Yeah, right, I believe yeah. Well look, I mean Grant Williams got the biggest stop or the whole day of season. Okay, and there's Grant Williams. It wasn't it wasn't anybody else. So, you know, let's just slow down on this. I mean, I'm just so tired of this like, you know, how about now? How about now Tyler hero had a great first half 16 points. He was like six of birth. Fueling or something and he was on fire, you know, but we got people on the Twitter thing going like ready to put him in Springfield like slow your roll. He's good. He's going to be good probably be an All-Star game player and last couple of years. I mean, he's you know, he's got all that but like let's just like this is the problem. We anoint everyone's way too early Michael Porter Jr. Can't defend to save the guy's life, you know, he can shoot he can score but he can't defend same with trade young like we like we anoint these guys before they're actually good players, you know, if you get a bucket, that's great. That is a win. So what we about game buckets are about winning to me basketballs about trying to get a w that's what it's all about, you know, and and I think we just we lose sight of that. We just bought a Passat who's getting buckets, you know, I it's all great that the Tyler hero and Duncan Robinson can fill fill it up, but they're not going anywhere without being matter by Jimmy Butler birth. Drops, you know what? I mean? Like I'm kind of sick. Like I've been seeing this through the bulb. Wow, you know and and drummer has been great, but she's a minus if he's plus mileage on the wrong side of it. What good is it? You know, so I just maybe I'm old I think maybe I'm just old I think I mean it's it's one of those scenarios where you can't really should have those conversations until you really have a body of work and especially in different situations, like pull somebody out of their current scenario move them into another one. And what do you have that right? That's the that's the real question. But that works both ways, you know, if it were if it were fans in Denver saying, oh man, I wish I wish jail and had fallen to us and they'd taken Jamal Murray because they see something else, you know, it's that early narrative. But Jamal gets to be the man and brown is dead. Is playing often second third fourth fifth fiddle and yet he's got plenty of talent. He's still young and The Rains of that team are going to go to him and and take him off at some point and and probably smart to I gotta tell you I'm watching more video of enes Kanter and this is another clip and his scanner and Marcus Smart add the pool long as like Deus is trying to get out of the pool and it starts to get rough. And there's like major Tatum personality coming out like you can tell he just loves being a dad. Like he legit loves being a dad. Like it's one thing to show like took pictures of people's kids, you know, and they're with their kid, but like when he was when when Deuce was coming off the bus and he was trying to get his hug and Deuce was kind of into his toy like that was hilarious, but you can just tell like how much Jason was dying for that hug, you know, and so I'm watching this pool video with out in the back of my mind. And they start messing around and Tatum totally like realizes someone's getting mixed up here. He's looking at them not Deuce, but he gets off hand on the back of Deuces life jacket like yeah, we're we're going to get you away from the 7-footer Turkish dude from falling in the pool. Like we know he's got a Long Reach in that region. Like he's all over it. Dude. Have you seen this? Yes. Yeah. It's yeah. Yeah, it's you know, like you said I lost like it's also I love life. I think it's also great, you know the Celtics, you know, this is what you know, I talked about this like how these guys get along right, you know, Chris Mannix wrote a nice little poem about how the two with the vibe is between jail and and Jason and you know that stuff matters to me. I just, you know, are they fitting it? They work Jason's at the pool with Deuce, you know wage? And Marcus is there and Ms. Is there and you know, like they're doing you know know all the notorious stories about the NBA life, you know, and what it does our marriage and I you know, the Kobe story and everything else, you know, and and and maybe even the Kobe story is something that Kobe talked to Tatum about who knows, you know, that stuff one hundred percent a private depends on how tight they were and everything else you wonder how many people Koby might have talked to around the league about look you're young but, you know take it from me, you know life and so when I see that, you know, it's just kind of refreshing that there's a counter-narrative like I'm not saying these guys are perfect and I get it they're young and I know what young men are like, may I get it? I'm not I'm not trying I was one once right? Oh, I'm not a girl was dead. But but the point is is like when when you see him and the whole you know, and it's like it's just the guys right nobody else. You don't really see anybody else's kids birth family members in the screenshot Jason's just hanging with Deuce man, and it's just kind of I know it's getting a little overplayed. I mean, I do see that off and so that's kind of the hesitate even bringing it up because it's so over Juiced but one well-known Celtics blogger slash Tweeter was like said something to the effect of all I want to do is hang out with Jayson Tatum and his son like that's weird like what's that about? But anyway there in the bus side. There'll only they're lonely too. I don't know. No I'm with you I've had I've had two year old around almost three year old and I want to be around wage. Well kid anyway now he's making a great point. But but anyway, the point is like he wants to spend time with this boy, you know what I mean? And just seeing just seeing like wage active nature coming out like don't want you know, there are plenty of young dads who couldn't give a crap where their kids at, you know, let alone read this situation like kind of want my boy to be safe here. So it's just cool to say and I don't want to hop on a bandwagon that's been beat to death, but I'm going to take a moment to say cuz it really I love the video is all about Cantor and smart and I'm just taking something completely different from the background. Yeah, right it is. Yeah, that's a good point. But hey want a hot take about Jayson Tatum. That's completely ridiculous. Sure, why not will close on this close on this? Wouldn't say what if Jayson Tatum is the fully realized his version of what Kobe Bryant could have been as a team as a team player without as much Focus about that kind of mob mentality stuff. Yeah. I don't think that's a hobby cuz I think there's a little shot. I don't know. I don't know like I feel like there's a lot of people who think like koby's the perfect player. You know, Kobe did everything absolutely the right way and obviously a cell experience. We have a bit of a different take on that off my ceiling going into Kobe. There's different ego going on between those two and right Jason still dominate a game without it and wage that's rare. Right? Like look at LeBron dude. Look at the way that that bitch ass handled not winning the MVP seriously seriously boots Used boiled freaking yet. Are you kidding? I just don't know what game everybody's watching. What game are you watching like them watching the game where if the player comes off the team? What's the team look like and yes, you're great. But Anthony Davis is still going to have that team on the bubble of the playoffs. You take Yiannis off Milwaukee, and I'm sorry but their shit, they're not making the postseason. They don't have a shot. And I don't I don't I'm already life. I don't really want to give you honest any love here either, you know, but but it's the truth you pull him off that Bucks team there nothing nothing and that's not the case with LeBron in L A. I think there's a lot of those votes were way too waited about things that happened in November as opposed to what happened off. Bubble, and I also do you want to go everything by what you saw lately but there's no one who can look at, you know, even since January and think the Jayson Tatum is a third two thirds be a guy. Oh, yeah the second team that's something that's just an insane County Jail in Crown books after the series after the series against Toronto is clear that Jaylen Brown Dodge deserve to be on the third team and see ah, probably didn't even belong. I'm just saying there's an argument there. That's you know, yeah and this Bradley Beal and all that but like to me like the whole Adam thing like Tatum the way he's passing the ball the way he defends the way he I mean truthfully I think I mean his shot-making as they're at the question of when he's shooting ways not change that to me is probably the biggest question. I have I have bought him right now, you know when to take over when not to take over. I think that's the thing where I'm not worried about him making Play-Doh You know often you know, I don't have any the issue his playmaking has been outstanding and it will get better. But I think it's you know, when when to take over when to be the month, when not to be the band, you know, start taking more threes Jason, you know, I think those are the issues shot profile is probably more of the issue right now, but he's dead effortlessly effortlessly getting 2512 and five a night without standing here wondering where is a on offense need a bucket still it's weird. Well, yeah, I got so much against Toronto definitely not against Philly but like even in this series like he's hit some but to your point about the unselfishness. We definitely saw a player taking a good bulk of the shots and kicking the crap out of the opponent earlier going and it's almost like I'll look at the box score and it'll a game. It surprised me when I see how well he did because I just don't feel like he was like dominating the game and the ball and as soon as he started doing it and it was actually an issue because they were forcing shots for him. They completely adjusted. It was like he didn't even care was like, okay fine. I'll do different. Yeah, you know and I don't I don't I don't you know, it's I think it's you can't give it as criticism to me because if you have that level of production you're doing what you need to do particularly in an offense where it's not built around one person, you know, it's not built around Jason gets his and everyone else gets there. This isn't the Houston Rockets, you know, this is off the tabs of you know, LeBron's ERA. This is not you know, it's not this is not like a hierarchical system. This is very Democratic, you know, it's whoever's open doors at the best shot to take it and some lights Jason's the guy in some nights. It's not but that is there's a there's a philosophy contrast because there's times in the NBA you need that guy to take over to be the guy off that everything else falls into place, you know, and I think that's probably the challenge that he's facing and I think Brad Stevens his face saying because I think so much of what works wage. Steven has ever since Brad got here is it will the numbers will you know, the buckets will find themselves will Isaiah was a different category than that, right? He thought he was he wouldn't stop him going to the RAM and that the difference in that scenario or that comparison was the fact that that guy was going to get onto the line off and they're the one thing the NBA officials gave us with Isaiah Thomas almost every time was the fact that dude's 5-7 no matter what he was listed at might have been it might have been five five years and he attacks the rim that ball doesn't go in with some crazy-ass circus trick shot. He probably got fouled and he's going down the line and and that's the difference. Like I'm not saying that Jason doesn't go to the rim, but Jaylynn goes to the rim more than Jason does and Jason will get in there, but he kind of weaves in and Euro steps wage. And he and his part like if they want to criticize Tatum on anything. It's the hands up in the air looking for the foul and he in a lot of times. He probably did get fouled but his moved the rim doesn't it's so smooth and euro-step E. It just doesn't have the officials looking for the foul the way it did would like in Isaiah Thomas and he's so sweet shooting from Beyond The Arc, but that's typically where he's going to do it his damaged, you know, even though he's gotten way more prolific at The Rim doing much better. Like this isn't me rehashing an old criticism that he clearly adjusted and corrected this season, it's not but the point is there a way that he goes to the rim, they just not looking or expecting there to be contacting a way that maybe they see with other players in the league and and the fact that you brought up Isaiah was such a great contrast for that. Yeah. Well he and I think it's I think it's a strength birth. And Isaiah was much more straight line cuz it didn't have them limbs that could go from one cycling the other ones that I might eat and does you know, so it was it's easier to cause I guess right you don't have to worry about these rims that seemed to stretch on forever and with Ian well and Isaiah gotten so strong that you look for it now with you know with Tatum. He's still he's much better off is much stronger. It's not just he got bumped he lost control but even though he has leaping ability. Yeah, even though he has leaping ability. He's so long he could do what Isaiah did which is something that Isaiah learned very early in his career which was to to like you said straight line soon as he knew he could beat his man as soon as it was in has just juice were slightly out of position. He just heads to the rim just straight on go and then he knows he's going to meet somebody there just cuz he beat his ban doesn't mean he's bit be dead. Free man cuz there's somebody going to be waiting and he would jump and he learned how to protect the ball take the contact in many cases bounce off several inches from whoever that player is and then maybe he gets a foul maybe not but he's not even looking for the foul. He's looking to make the shot because after he bounces off that body he actually get free again and that's when he would go and finish the shot and a lot of times it would drop that's why I was so good at getting and once cuz he'd already figured out that officials weren't going to save him right off like he would get calls but they weren't going to save him cuz just going to the free throw line isn't going to get it done. His body's going to get trashed. He had to learn kind of a safe way to like Perl like Sonic Sonic the Hedgehog balance off of a player and then come out of the spin and release a shot off the backboard and make it and like Jason literally doesn't have a job. Luxury, he's just not built the same way can't do that. And if if you were to do anything like that, it just be an offensive foul because of the way home builders and he wouldn't finish with contact the same way. So, you know with all of that in mind, you know, it's great to see Tatum adjust a little bit. Maybe he does need to be able to take over in different ways. Maybe it's a strength thing, but he's so young. He's going to put muscle on that frame and he's already added what since he came into the league twenty pounds, maybe easy easy easy. I would say Tuesday. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and in the end, I think another offseason he's going to be he's going to be beastly and he's really he's really strong right now, but I think another offseason of work and now that I'm saying it's not going to be probably until James you worried that they're back at it. So they're going to have a good three months of birth. You didn't work too. Well, they they got to do they going to Bubble a regular season in January. What's the word? They're supposedly they want to try to play in in Market, but I don't see how they can do that with all that travel NBA teams have you know to me I think they could handle the travel but it's going to have to be private Charter, you know one hundred percent and we're not going to have to believe in a lot of protections, you know around the hotels and like they're going to have to book out an entire hotel. But here's the thing the hotels are empty in a way like in Philadelphia. The hotels are being used as dorm rooms for the kids that are going back to school because they want single occupancy in the dorm. So the hotels near me anyway and demand is not an issue while at least not a good problem that they have and so I could see, you know big teams of Club. Incruse sweeping into the hotel's cleaning them out the team gets an entire Hotel lots of spacing limited number of Staff delivery for food. Nobody goes out to eat need some basic team rules and the travels gotta be on private Charters, you know, but if they they can they can take best practices from the bubble and protect these when I say Protect these guys, they're really protecting their families, you know, I don't really see athletes in this kind of shape as being like a real risk in the pandemic. Not that I not that they couldn't get sick now, they couldn't get significantly sick, but I don't think you really talking about death for NBA players at all, but For them to do an entire season without seeing their family to keep their families safe. That's the issue. Yeah. Well, I mean there was like study about myocarditis. They're worried about inflammation there. I I don't know if that's you know, but you're right. I mean that's a that's a concern and and I yeah, I would love to be able to play at least in mom. So they can these guys can have time with their families, you know, and and go back to living the way that they are used to living somewhat and then I you know, and then eventually as things relax, hopefully a little bit more and we can really contract trick contact race and actually have some you know off the long-term effects that are unknown. You know, that that's something he doesn't want hanging over their head or any league for that matter. Right, right, exactly and speaking long-term effects. I think we should end on this apparently apparently the game for referees in dog food Scott Foster. That's right and and 20 brothers. So expect Shenanigans expect Shenanigans the game for so so here's the question do they put the Celtics down three one and then the Celtics do a Denver and then somehow I'm in Denver's playing as a record this so they can be down 300 by the time we're done with this but maybe Denver and the Celtics go down 3-1 and then Denver does the trifecta come back somehow and the Celtics would do the same thing on their end and I can get one extra day of rest over Denver and then meet them in the finals. That'll be weird. It's going to be something because I think I I think so. I think that I think this is a typical typical NBA scheduling deal where early, early in the series they'll have these guys work and they'll bring them back later in the series to go the other way. So I'm rather hoping that page is about getting the the serious tied up. This might be the first time Foster Brothers do something for us. Right? Exactly. Yeah, it's really spend. So so, you know, this is not something washed out maybe the app is wrong and they won't work the game but it seems like they've been off long enough. So it you know a little sometimes they're twenty Brothers in game six against Toronto. So but I guess it being game for I guess just time for Tony to come back and wreak havoc against the Boston Celtics again, so someone to look forward to, New Jersey. You get ready for Wednesday night's all right. So when do we come back? Wednesday's game for Friday is going to be game five if they stay on the alternating the game 6 is Sunday night. And then yeah, okay. Okay. Yep game six or Sunday. So so in all likelihood will come back and and celebrate a crazy for strep or we'll be previewing or we'll be previewing game 7, which is the most likely scenario Unless somehow the Celtics are eliminated before that, right, but I don't think that's what I think will will be back probably on Monday Monday night or Sunday after the game to to take a look at what's next. So John, I'm going to wrap it. Maybe it well and I just want to see if it goes 7 that is also the night of the first presidential debate so you for those who just failed move it it won't be Tuesday night, then they'll move it. That'll be Wednesday. So yeah, no way. No way. No way. No way in hell does the NBA in this political climate with their own social stance? Do they have people watching this game seven instead of the debates? No chance in hell that things get moved. Fair enough J down down on it. All right, that's good. Do it for this week's show as a reminder. You can follow us other stuff live on iTunes Stitcher Google Play and Spotify. We'd love it. If you give us a call waiting in a review because your feedback is important to the show and let's just call it a wrap. Thank you for listening love that you continue to listen to us after nearly fifteen years of doing this. It's been an interesting ride. It's been an interesting season just keeps getting closer and closer to the end. So stay with us as we close. This this season out. Here's the next very few weeks. So on behalf of my co-host John Duke the founder of seal & S media Nick gelso & myself just in pool and thank you for listening wage. This week's edition of Celtic stuff live, right?

Celtics Miami NBA Gordon Hayward Duncan Robinson Toronto Jimmy Butler Jalen Brown Boston Jayson Tatum Jason Kelly Olynyk Marcus Smart Twitter Boston Celtics Lakers Grant Williams Isaiah Thomas John Hollinger Gordon Hayward
82: What's next for Celtics after Gordon Hayward injury?

Winning Plays

37:13 min | 3 months ago

82: What's next for Celtics after Gordon Hayward injury?

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns Via Network the leading online provider for the India is winning his franchise. They're welcome back to the winning Place podcast with Brian Rob and Michael. R. Maurice Levine. That's right. Tina is back. But unfortunately Gordon Hayward is out. We'll discuss the short and long-term implications of Koreans injury will talk about the Celtics game 1 win over the Seventy Sixers Jayson Tatum, and Jaylen Brown are absolutely ridiculous first. As always, please subscribe to this podcast, wherever you listen, give us a follow on Twitter. That's at winning players pod. Shout out to see on this media. Shout out to bet online. Michael piano. Welcome back, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. So happy to be here. You guys are incredible job in my absence used to suck up comes back. Just watch the season turn just crumble away home. I have two quick questions for you, you know to get a to get us re-acclimated question one of all the pieces you've written for GQ and the last few weeks even do a lot of work over there. Which one are you most proud of wage? Well, I did this story about group economics and trying to explain what that was cuz some guys in the league three players are wearing a group economics on the back of their jerseys as their social social justice message. And when I first saw that as an option, I had no idea what it was or what it meant. So I talked to thought the players Anthony Tolliver and David West who I found out was the reason for it because he was kind of the inspiration a few years back and that was cool. And apparently it did well traffic-wise which I don't personally care about I guess but is but you're going to say most intense most importantly exactly well throughout the question. Exactly. Yes, not trying to spread a message of you know, social justice. But as long as people click, that's all I really care about. Okay, you got your priorities in line while your doing awesome over there. Very cool to see see that everyone check him out GQ GQ long is that is that where to go? Okay, so from from from group up in economics to education reform question to the lack of impact. All right rank it from 1 through 10. How hard are the Celtics going to feel this Gordon Hayward injury. So Gordon Hayward is out what four weeks with a sprained right? Ankle be robbed is that the that the official statement gave us a release from the team and from doing research and talking to people in sports medicine for weeks sounds optimistic for a grade three ankle sprain in general. And so hopefully maybe it's a less severe when I don't know. Obviously the Celtics know plenty more the doctors than we do on that front. But if you look at other grade three strains Rental League, it's a lot of them have been dead for more than four weeks. So. What do you think went through 10 or is this going to be felt? I think in the first round against Philly, I'd put it at like a boar. I'm not I don't really think it's that big of a deal to be honest. I think Boston is just a lot better and more Marcus Smart more Grant Williams more whoever does they can survive that for sure and I might even be a little bit better off in the short-term. I think beating it seemed like the Raptors without Gordon Hayward and not having him in one of those lineups that off. You know, when Toronto wants to get super versatile. They can get super versatile and Gordon Hayward just kind of key to unlocking that for Boston. So that's going to be real tough and I'm real interested to see who who Brad Stevens kind of leans on out of the guys. You know, I just mentioned Marcus I mentioned Grant Williams like Romeo Langford dead. Is like is he going to play Brad Wanamaker be Rob's boy. Like I don't know how they're going to kind of make up for what Gordon provides particularly on the defensive end. So for Thursday at series, I'm like that's a 7 or an aide maybe even higher honestly might be rub answer penis question. How are the Celtics going to react what's know who is going to who you think is the first call I mean obviously office is probably going to start I would think so we gotten that I think so. I want to take Peter to task for a second here though. It's for they might be better off about Hayward in the series this this Philly series about how many points did Marcus Smart score the other day better off probably a slight example, I mean went back to me if you I agree with you sure. It's not a huge loss. But like I mean, yeah they were it is maybe that's 35 minutes locked in then you're going to get Good defense. Oh fifty points album hayward's terrific. He's been playing really well in the bubble be right by now, you wrote something about him recently. It's a blown know for sure. But I'm just kind of like you watch what Jalen did last night you watched. What Tatum did it just like more opportunities for those guys and gals and pressure as well. Yeah. Those guys were born in the darkness. Come on. They're ready to go. Sure. I know I agree but this is going to be the first time on this stage that there's going to be no choice, but if they don't come through when I guess you have Kemba, who's where we think about kember he actually he was the fourth quarter last night, like he eleven points in the fourth quarter from very slow start, but I agree for it. I mean like that's I think that's your biggest Factor now with with Hayward around Campbell could kind of ease back into things during the series, but now Kemba has to dominate as much money. Actually if they're putting Shake noting on them to start games and putting Richardson on Tatum or brown, I feel pretty good about that though. I had a thought last night that I think at the same time Campbell looks pretty good. And he's also clearly the third best player on the Celtics like the both. Those things are true. I don't think he's the third-best because he doesn't look like himself. I think, you know pretty close to a hundred percent. Kemba Walker is not as good as or not as important as jail and Jason. So funny enough. I I kind of agree with your sentiments but I a couple days ago before long before Gordon got hurt. I pitched Thursday to 5:38 wanting to write about Kemba as like the narrative with the Celtics is kind of like there'll only go so far as Tatum and Jaylen take them, but I'm kind of like I know more or less what I'm getting with Tatum and Jaylen like I think they're like think of the world of them. I think they're great. I think they'll score. I think they'll defend wage they'll do all that and play terrific basketball. Those are the guys that the Celtics are relying upon but Campos kind of like that player who really increases your variance now whereas he was supposed to be stable rock where you knew what you were getting with Kemba. I don't think he's scored over 20 points since before like shortly before the All-Star break in a game. I think 19 last night so long His ability to go up and then there's like all these different numbers that I've been looking at with Kimba that have me optimistic that he can really step up. I just I'm fascinated by Kemba. I'm fascinated by him against him his ability to get points against the Raptors. I'm already moving past the six or some Spanish like them I respected. Yeah, but like his ability to create offense by himself off the bounce against Toronto is going to be really fascinating and then, you know, if you are fortunate enough to get passed around so kambo needs to have a big series with the pull-up threes against Milwaukee if you want to be Milwaukee, assuming Milwaukee beats the Devon today, Orlando Magic who has a recording this right now are giving them everything. They've got so Kemp is like huge all of a sudden even more so than I thought he was like a few days ago and I thought it was huge a few days ago. I mean he has to make pull up three. It's against the law. Philly now, I think if to avoid a seven-game slugfest because really I think I mean I just hope that that team sorry, but I just don't I just don't feel like the six are in the same as the Celtics even without Gordon but you thought you think that without Gordon it's a potential seven-game series. Yes, I think based off of you know, you got pretty terrific games from Tatum and brown last night long and you got nothing from your bench which isn't a big deal when you have you're starting five at full strength, but now if you're moving smart into the starting five and he's not hitting threes then fingers can get a c in a hurry and I mean maybe it's just a decent time to talk about how Brad Stevens should handle the situation and maybe who's going to get who deserves the most opportunity now knowing that, you know, smart replaces into the starting five, but he's already playing third two minutes a game. So hayward's 35 minutes have to go elsewhere. I think you're looking at dead. Three guys, or maybe even for guys Wanamaker Lankford Grant Williams, and I'm usually who had a DMP and game one month. Yeah, what do you think? They're I think I'm I'm starting to think now just as we're talking and kind of brainstorming like Is it possible that Marcus Smart is not the automatic guy who goes into the storyline up. Sure. I mean if if that is if that is the case like if they were playing the Bucks, I'd be like, yeah, they're going to play show me that would make a lot of sense, right? I think they're going to I think I don't think they're going to start Grant Williams. I think Grant Williams going forward is just like humongous for them in this and he does a lot of different things from Gordon Hayward not he's not going to be like running your offense, but he's just still just like super smart can knock down the spot up. Three's he's got such a great nose for the ball that play last night where he drove on the ground and created a second opportunity. I just think Grant Williams is like a really great rookie. And so you think you potentially gets to start It wouldn't totally stunned me. If he was in the starting lineup for game two. I'll just say that yeah, like I think that makes sense too cuz you kind of when you have Walker Jalen and Tatum on the floor together. It makes sense to hide someone in there offensively again. This is theis it does make things dangerous home taste the way they're Saginaw from already ties has to hit some threes for this to work. But throwing in smart with that group clearly hell's helps you from a ball handling a standpoint and potentially three-point shooting standpoint, but it also leaves your bench rotation, like totally exposed to a degree and that is a dangerous proposition in case of foul trouble or anything else. So in Grant Williams can guard Horford He can you know hold his own against and switches against some wings that we saw that in his comments to in game one. So I don't I don't hate the idea smart is the same choice, but if Stevens wants to get creative, I think Great Waves might be the logical choice that he mixes it up. So I really enjoyed watching Jalen gardel. I hate to lose that if they start Grant just just seeing I say that was that's just that's jail and totally locked in noting he's going he's going a bigger guy certainly having some familiarity with Al from the last few years. I thought he was great in the early going against Al I agree. I'm I'm so glad you brought up Al Horford worst contracts in the League comic the screamer the screamer off for now. What was that? I was I was stunned watching that on television. I was first of all, why did he not get a technical foul for that? Like if that was a game at home and he gets technical foul, right? I think it's cuz it's Al Horford and they'd arrest felt bad. I don't know. It's like they were just shocked know they'd know. Yeah. Yeah, it should have been shacked. Is that the most emotion? He's like ever shown his p number, you know, when you get six six and six and a playoff game you can understand not being able to control your emotions. I saw his I saw the box score afterwards cuz I wasn't keeping track of it when I was watching the game. I assume that Al Horford had like twenty and twelve and there was it was literally his six point. It's like man didn't know if maybe you say real quick. I didn't know if maybe take off cuz it looked like he was screaming in the direction of Tatum. Yeah. I don't know if maybe one of one of Jason's earlier baskets if maybe he had yelled a little bit of grunted it out. Potentially. It seemed retaliatory to me. Yeah, I'm sure there is some fun good-natured trash. Going on with those those guys since they are I think they still have good relationships. But I mean that was the one I think I was in the middle of like 900 or five or six years run the one time where the C has got a little uneasy and then they turned around but I mean Jalen's play on offense against whoever I wouldn't be surprised. I'm if table table something starts for Hartford and they just play him off the bench as a center because he can't handle Jalen and then I guess that's the case where you don't put great Williams in because that's somewhere for corporate to hide defensively. Whereas if you put Smart in their smart can at least feet or foot off the dribble and you know, give the Sixers defense them that way. Yeah, we have it. By the way, we haven't talked about what Tatum did you know jail and kind of finished it but for that stretch, I think that was maybe part of the struggles in the third quarter after taking one out, but everyone had been kind of hypnotized but what he had been doing for the previous, you know ten minutes or so, but any cuz you mentioned be robbed that you know, Jalen and Tatum both had terrific games, but is that the new Jayson Tatum you said traffic is that just going to be the expectation every time it goes out and I maybe he's not going to be as dominant as he was for the for that for that stretch of time, but that was pretty special. Yeah, I mean I think in this series Mike like this, is there kind of kind of neat that for them now right like who's going to stop them from getting that? I personally expect him to do those things. Like when the game was on the line in the Celtics needed a bucket at the end. He just put his head down and got to the free-throw line. Like that's what superstars Dodge do. It's like very simple. It's what separates them from like merely very good players. Like he is a straight-up offensive Superstar already and I'm like, I I'm not like super caught off guard or Spellbound when he has performances like that and then his ability to transfer it to the defensive end that play where he slapped. I forgot to shut off the glass that started a fast break the other way Richardson. Yeah, like you saw that coming a mile away when you're watching the game live like you knew he was going to slap it off the glass like that's just he's dead and he is he's a really special player. I have like this really random comment that I wanted to bring up earlier and I can't find a place to put it so I'm just going to verbal masturbated right off. Um, but title the title right there, did you guys get like how weird was it to see the contrast between the Celtics coaching staff's office Green polos and the Sixers. It's like tucked in green polos makes a lot of sense and then the Sixers coaching staff, but Brown they have like a bow and packed like button Downs that whatever was Tommy Bahama. I don't think they weren't even like the right size is like Brett Brown's didn't look like it was the right size. It was I think that what they were all untucked like, I think it was that company. My wife was like is that the company untucked or they actually wearing those shirts? I went on sponsorship deal. Yeah. So am I hope you're writing about this by the way, I mean, this is Mike streets. You coming to the Forefront right now? Like I didn't even notice this this I had this this was bothering me. I was like Brett Brown needs to he looks I I love God. Brand, he looked terrible at the whole staff just horrendous. It was embarrassing. So you need to write about that. Seriously, you know that will go more viral than than than group economics. You look particularly disheveled when you're like screaming at your team because they suck and they've just committed their eleventh turn over and the last five minutes when your shirt is untucked and your shirt does not fit. I'm just going to fill that out there in like Brad Stevens look great. And who do you think makes the call on those like where the coaches the coaches talk before the games being like? Okay. We're going to go what color Polo are we going? Like the time Bahama or not? Like, who do you think I should call is Mike? I don't know. That's a good that's a good question. I know exactly I wrote a whole story about the suit versus like comfy look for coaches, but that's old news. Now. This is now we're looking we know you've gotta get inside the the Wardrobe options in the bubble guys not to break up the wardrobe talk about sports keep coming back in case you've noticed says your chance to bet on them with our exclusive wagering partner wage. Online. A G Major League Baseball is finally started this summer and they're in full swing and there's no shortage of ways to get on the action that online has all the odds Futures and props for you to bet on and it supports start to return bottom line has sat down with Eddie George from the NFL Robert Horry 7 time NBA champ and Harold Reynolds for Major League Baseball to get their opinion on what it will be like playing without fans. They calling it The fandemic so visit betonline.ag today check out all the odds and up-to-date sports news. Don't forget to sign up and take advantage of all the welcome back Sports bonuses BetOnline your online wagering experts one thing real quick about Tatum guys. That Kang has surprised me not necessarily that he's dominating he seems to really be enjoying it. You know what I mean? Like, there's been another level of confidence and Swagger and shit talking and it helped that he was that he was mic'd up he seems and maybe this is part of not having fans to he seems a lot more comfortable with utterly embarrassing the competition than maybe he did as early as February. I think he feels and he maybe should that he's like the best player on the court regardless of who else is out there. And in fact that kind of that confidence reflects itself in his behavior is you're saying rich like it is hard to parse like the difference between the difference between just like him being miked up and us getting that that special both looks live looks at at things that he's saying and in relation to other players him being dead louder and all that, but I was also I did this interview with Robert Covington and he I asked him what the weirdest thing about the bubble was and he was like, it's truly a strange not playing with fans and not having the energy in the adrenaline that they provide and he thinks that teams that actually are loud and they've like talked about this the Rockets like the ladder you are like the birth Or you will be and you will perform. I don't know what that's about but I thought that was really interesting and maybe the Celtics have talked about something similar where it's like we want you to really express yourself more than you otherwise would cause your teammates need an energy source to feed off of yeah, I mean that was the big thing that brought tears talk around their first scrimmage against Oklahoma City against Chris Paul when Paul is just dominating the game of his voice and like you said like it seems like a a little thing but when there's no one around to get that extra adrenaline rush or push or whatever it's going to have to come from the bench or it's going to happen from your teammates on the floor and Tatum might be just buying into that himself more here. I personally just think he's excited that he doesn't have to deal with Ben Simmons and can literally do whatever she wants against this team. Whether it's Josh Richards, I mean table is a a good match up but it that's more he's great. Just contesting the shots off the screens and stuff like a job. Early the matchup. He would go to the Post right? He would destroy him. You can beat him. He can beat him one-on-one. That's more like around screens table can be more of a menace. But yeah, it's there's not a lot of guys to be scared of on the Sixers defense on the on the wing. That's for sure. I'm glad terrible got that block on the three-point attempt out of his system run the jump shot like that. She showed at the Tatum early enough now that he can adjust cuz that that would mean that was a really impressive play real quick. So I'm seeing right now that the magic or up 12 on Milwaukee with five minutes left p and I was talking to be Robert about this before he came on but we talked the whole season's about wanting to avoid a second-round match up with Milwaukee. So any chance that maybe Toronto is the team that you want to avoid in the second round. There is a chance. Yes, Tomatoes defense is ridiculous. Like they come to play every night with a different scheme that they're able to execute. They go through like twelve deep their offense has been like pretty up and down. But I mean, I'm personally not worried about it. And I don't think they are either like they have Shooters long as you can go off the bounce. They have a lot of different weapons siakam hasn't even like looked special at all in the bubble and he will in all likelihood not show up in meaningful moments. So I mean Toronto super scary Fred vanfleet just looks like he's going to get a Max contract. I guess down there tough Fred you look at Milwaukee. Like I'm not going to totally overreact to one potential loss against right? They might didn't even lose yet in Orlando beat the Raptors game. Game one last year. This is Orlando loves to take the game. Once they also had Jonathan Isaac in that game. I will say and I haven't been closely watching this game. But I think markelle fultz been drilling threes is what I saw on my Twitter timeline, so don't quote me on that, but I don't know if that's the same one free, but he is having again. Okay 134 from Markel. That's that's good. That's a fact. But no, I think that you know on one hand you'd have to go up against Yiannis who is still just an absolutely ridiculous basketball player Kris midleton just torch is the Celtics every single time they play each other. I don't know both teams are really good and it's kind of is what it is. You're like going to play the rap song so might as well get ready for that match up I guess and you're going to play them both eventually if you're going to do anything with the season. Well, oh Miami Heat over Milwaukee Bucks around 2. Let's go. Yeah, maybe that's the call ya bucks haven't looked right in or in Orlando yet kind of like the Lakers will see whether that matters not pretty quickly in these playoffs, but clearly game one is a concern thousand bucks as they fall further behind the fourth quarter. What's the latest on Romeo Langford? Just just wrist was yeah. So let's yeah we should talk about him. I want to talk about just Random Jewel of grab bag on the bench here to to close things off to get your guys take away. But yeah, he's so he's got torn wrist ligaments. I believe in his shooting hand them to play through it. He's going to need surgery on eventually, but for now according to Brad Stevens It's a just a strictly a pain tolerance issue. So they're going to he's going to play through it and now he's certainly going to do that. He's going to get a chance to play through it with with Hayward out of the picture. I would imagine like shooting probably pretty tough was torn wrist ligaments as someone who's broken their wrist a couple of times. I admire him greatly for even trying to play through this in the first place, but I do think his defense is good enough where he's worth having around even though he's a non-factor offensively What was his injury at Indiana wasn't it a rest? There was some some ligaments. He played through it the season of torn some ligaments. I believe in you. Do you know if that was off hand is not shooting hand. I think there was a shooting here to let me look it up. I know I'm just throwing like trivia obscure Romeo Langford. Trivia. Yeah. I'm going to go like Choice Costanza start checking his hands a little bit. I was just right film I believe. So, yeah. Romeo I mean whenever I watch him like his impact is way more about like not shooting the basketball obviously if you're on the floor in a playoff series you have to be able to like threaten the defense at the very least as a spacer, but I feel like he has this good instincts actual game where they can cut and he can rebound particularly offensive glass and he's like, you know, he's energy high-energy and I don't like my expectations for what he could contribute in a series against like the Raptors is pretty minimal, but I don't know like, you know, I don't see him like hitting 530 playoff game. I do see him potentially, you know taking a charge here and there and and just using his energy but like what is that really does suck? Matter existential I like it went from trivia trivia to existential reality. That's nice. What do you guys think of time Ward now in this series going forward after month? I don't a rocky game one performance will say but nicely. I think we talked a lot about how much the game slowed down for him and those eight games and against Philly was like he was back on the the super-fast treadmill, you know, I mean like the the cam the composure I think and listen, I understand you're going up against well and bead and a game where and well wasn't being still out there when when Williams made his first appearance. He was right. Yeah, and he he a chance against both but and it was a tire as well and be but I could I could understand why things were going a little bit faster for him. I think it showed I'm ready to throw rolling back out there and game too though. I'm confident that he can still contribute. I think I was kind of noticing and maybe I'm wrong cuz I haven't looked it up. But like I'm pretty sure his second stint and every I don't know how many since he actually had but God intentionally they were trying to make it so he wouldn't be on the floor at the same time as embiid and they were kind of just balancing it with theis and with cancer in those and it's yeah, but like Robin Williams, like I haven't had an opportunity to gush on him about him on this pot. So you're just out. I know he's might be you know, how many things like defensive player of the year or two? We thinking here like a minimum is that I think you're treated this piano about him being one of the scariest closers that club it's terrifying his ability. I mean, he used to talk about how Jordan could like start from under the hoop and block a 3-pointer. Maybe that's hyperbole, but I'm pretty sure that time where it might suck. Able to do that arms jumping ability instincts quickly at the elbow and his man is like behind the three-point line on the wing catches the ball and timelord jump off at the elbow and it's just like it's like a contest. It's it's like truly there's no one else in the league. Who does that? I'm not even kidding. Like I can't think of anybody else like that's like a guard version of like dejounte Murray or something like that where he he just like appears in your face, but he's so much bigger and his arms are just like their wives. So in a few years. I think he's going to be like a like I think he's the future starting center of the team and like his instincts of really impressed me also in the bubble and he was like looks like a basketball player, which I really wasn't expecting but yeah like Time Lord, man, he just makes you take a deep breath when you're watching a What do you think B Rob is or did he lose any confidence or Brad Stevens in and game on I think you have to think about it to agree with great way of saying the chance in the fourth quarter in a spot where he matched up against Al Horford to Mike's Point in terms of you know, Cantor matching up against embiid Hayward being out does change that Dynamic since you could theoretically go off with some, you know, Williams Williams front lines for a spot here and there when impedes off the court if you're trying to spread the rest around. Yeah, he just he deserve he's played well enough alone know where he deserves another shot here cuz that's what I think. It's first real playoff minutes in that game. So but I think you something nice now in terms of the the present the future I agree with you guys totally welcome to the center of the future, but for now the Trust might be tested a little bit. So I mean when when when ambient start sucking win like you like you did I mean, what was it late first-quarter wage? This is the second quarter. I think Williams is the last guy that he wants to see. Yeah, cuz he really abused him for a little bit and that and that first stretch I missed an easy shots to like everyone on the Celtics did but I think on Thursday nights, like he'll be he'll be able to have a few more baskets as well. Yeah, I think the bunnies their day. Mr. Lee. He I mean he missed a donkey missed a couple that's like he has to be out. He has to take his time when he shoots Mike and that's what he did really well in the bowl games when you shall I quit like eighty-five ninety percent, but now he was on Fast Forward again in these games and that's not going to not going to go. Well. Yeah, I'd admire the the the New York next put out an Instagram post of Mitchell Robinson and His field goal percentage right next to Wilt Chamberlain and his record field goal percentage and they were shaking hands. Oh god, he's a really great and it's like why Instagram was invented for stuff like that should be illegal. And so when you were talking about like as high that's what made me think of but now I I think yeah, I agree with you he needs to slow things down mentally wage. Um, what was that basically like his first playoff game kind of and he's in the bubble and it's just all weird and you're going up against the Marquee Center and change and and everyone's been hyping him non-stop for the last week pretty much he seems like the type of person who has been paying attention to that which I to be fair. I would do I would be reading all the tweets. I would be searching my name on Twitter when I woke up in the morning before I went to bed. So shout out to him for that. This is where the bubble really hurts cuz now would be the perfect time as a single NBA player to to he's going up torturous. Yeah. It's a true, uh, damned-if-you-do damned-if-you-don't situation, you know. All right. Should we should we close this out with some predictions for the rest of the series? Yeah, what I want to hear the percent chance of you guys thinking this others could lose a series right now. Okay, you can say the crazy thing first, you know, you're going to say 100. No, wait, the chance of them losing. Yeah, the chance of losing of them losing losing losing. Yeah, so zero, do you think it's 0 Mike? I think it's 15 Okay, I'll say 10 a.m. Again, we don't know like knock on wood. I mean like Jalen and Tatum could get injured. We don't know but assuming it's not a m i n e horrible injuries. I'm going to say like 10% I I just don't think I don't think in beads long for the series I said this earlier to to be right. I think that that's the best and beat you're getting I don't think he has it in him to give much more. He was out of breath by the second quarter. I just don't think physically he can dominate as consistently as he needs to. I agree and I just can't believe after four years in Philly. They don't have a point guard then get him the ball. It's just argue and tell you that they do have one and that his bags or whatever like injury that whatever quicker that can shoot that can get him the ball. Yeah, which is seems to be pretty packed in across the NBA right now, but for some freaking, uh trained Burke, it's like tearing at all in Dallas. He was in Philly last year. Like, why would you let someone like that goes off simple pick-and-roll point guard you can shoot threes and run some kind of pick and roll with Joel embiid because late in the game, you can't like entering the in the ball in the post office in the game is just really difficult great guys fronting him guys, like helping from the weeks. He's the focal point. So the Celtics are daring and hoping that someone else in the team. Shoot that's probably going to be like Alec Burks who was taking all sorts of crazy shows last night and had himself a great game. Whatever that's never going to happen. Again Rich. Remember I brought him up. You did took flash. Yeah. Yeah that was his 15 minutes right there. And I know I'm I'm sounding really mean I don't mean you know, but the fact that that was the Alec Burks game, right? That's that's what they need to talk to to win. This series is performances from guys like that and they guide instilled I think again, it was closed. I think they still kind of got their asses kicked. I felt like the Celtics were were toying with the with the Sixers a little bit. So you're wasting that that game from him. I don't think you'll get another one and I again I said I said Sixers I said Celtics and five at the beginning and I'm waiting a little bit more towards towards a sweep now, but, I'll stick stick my Celtics and 5. I was thinking Celtics and six Mike Woody. What's your what's your tally? I'm still Celtics and five years. So I had before the series started I The Sweep would kind of Be Wild but what's really interesting about all this is like there's no job opportunity for momentum if the Celtics win game to what is Philly doing like are they competing in game three like what is their mentality? So, um as even a mentally tough team you worry about that and a team also real quick like you talked to like players in the bubble. Some of them are just like, you know, Like teams players on teams that know that they can't win the championship are just like I really want to see my family. Like I really don't want to be in the bubble right now. Like this is a weird eyes lighting experience. So there's that a factor as well for a team like the Sixers if they were to go down to you don't know how they would react and by the way that's going to be such an advantage for the Celtics moving forward is that it seems that they are enjoying being there together and they really believe in their ability to win this title and like they they have a collective Mission and that's going to go a long way as we move forward. It's going to be fun to watch. All right, so we'll put a bone that I'm sorry. We're going to have to spend the next episode guys talking a lot more about Brad Wanamaker cuz we really didn't get anything in here on Thursday needs to be featuring prominently these next few games, but we'll be back to see how these these look like, uh without hammering the fold what adjustments they make money and whether they to see is can put this Philly team away early. So we'll be back with that later this week in the meantime hit us up at winning plays pod on Twitter at Michael V peena at Richmond Australian at Bryant. He robbed check mike stuff out on JQ. He's been coming over there as well and I'll be off classes first year or per usual and I think that's it guys.

Celtics Jayson Tatum Gordon Hayward Wanamaker Lankford Grant Willi Brad Stevens Sixers Philly Walker Jalen Twitter Mike Woody Toronto basketball Raptors Milwaukee NBA Al Horford Kemba Walker Romeo Langford Jaylen Brown Brian Rob
Where Boston Went Wrong & Where Do They Go From Here?

Big Time Basketball

18:32 min | 2 months ago

Where Boston Went Wrong & Where Do They Go From Here?

"Roofers are you tired of using a bunch of selling tools that don't talk to each other streamline your selling process with Gif project manage lead measurements. Presentations estimates even payments right on your IPAD visit J F dot Com slash project. This he's the scaling bells podcast with NBA champion Brian scelo brainy in former NBA general manager, and Executive Ryan mcdonagh. Welcome back to Scallon Pals. Everyone. Ryan mcdonagh joined as always by the White Mamba Brian scalable rainy. If you're watching on radio DOT COM or twitch TV, maybe you're admiring the Denver Nuggets as I am on my screen Kudos to Denver, they had a terrific run in the NBA finals. But that ended this weekend on Saturday night with the La Lakers. Winning in five games in advancing to the NBA Finals scale the first team through was the LA Lakers in the western conference and then last night in the eastern conference in six. Games the Miami. Heat one to advance to the NBA finals they beat the Boston Celtics One, twenty, five, one, thirteen, also scale. Now, we'll have a terrific match up in the finals. The La Lakers the western conference champion against the Miami Heat, the Eastern conference champion and I was really excited scalping thinking about this overnight and this morning because that means one way or another your boy dion waiters is going to get an NBA championship ring. I. I mean, he's well-deserved. Whether it's in Miami or. La like it's. Each worked real hard this season had a great year. Put everything together. You know got his meds right and. Now, he's GonNa take advantage of it. This NBA championship ring brought to you by. The official gummy bear of the Miami Heat and the and the La Lakers. But that's another story for another day as always you're listening to and watching Scallon mcdonagh here on Scalp Pals on radio DOT COM feel free to submit your questions to us. We will take the best ones on air and we're going to bring in NBA insider Rick Euchre hearing about fifteen or twenty minutes. A Rick will give us his take on the finals matchup and what? To expect and all the SCUTTLEBUTT around the League as always uses well-connected as anybody in the NBA schedule start with last night's game between the Celtics and the Miami he talked about it on her many pod overnight. What really stood out when I thought about it some more watched a little of film especially of the Fourth Quarter Scowl was how Miami's Stud young big man Bam a bio played. It's very unusual for a player in his career to dominate a game. Game Six gala was a big game. Miami was up in the series. Boston one game five on Friday night. So in order to flip the game with Boston leading by six or eight points early in the fourth quarter and seemingly you know I've taken control the momentum in order for young player to come out and attacks Gal and do that on both ends of the court especially offensively where he was very aggressive in various sort of that is very unusual and I think shows our viewers listeners, what you and I have said for a while now that the Miami Heat have a special young player and Bam metabolical. Yeah, I mean. So I always look back on the series San? Legitimately pissed off when the Celtics one game five because of the way they played in the second half and. I always felt like the Celtics leftist Ingo fourteen point lead lost the game seventeen point loss game have a fighting locker room when game three and in late egging game remember what that was like. So the way I look at this game is the Miami Heat beat the Boston Celtics at every aspect of the game sales wanted to play fast he played Bass Celtics wanted to. Execute offensively moved the ball more the heat you know striper stride with them in that situation Bam on big performance you had of hero with his big performance Jimmy Butler down the stretch. So I reflect back it's either. I think the Celtics have incredible amount of talent but I think the Miami Heat they do everything better. I think they're tougher more physical. I think that they moved the ball better. I think they pass better I think they're more willing to pass. I think outside of which I don't value that highly because what the rest of the world values outside of being able to go get your own shot against you know two guys really would. It looks like outside of that I don't know if there's an area in which this game at the Boston Celtics dominated maybe in transition in the short spurts that they did. So it's just I look back on the series and say, well, the Celtics they look at it like man. Everyone's GonNa go out and say, well, MIAMI, really tough team they lose lose game six. Yeah. Absolutely. Miami beach you game six, but you have to be thinking about one two and four to really understand this series when they when they think back I hope they remember the way that they played in one two and four because like there's going to be games where in the NBA where a team is just going to beat you and this playoff series should have looked like what we saw in game six and then let the cards fall where they may. But this wasn't that this was dominating performance by Miami and throughout the series it was. We're the Miami Heat and you're gonNA play our style. I don't care what you have to say about it. We're GONNA and on top of that no matter what you do us we're still gonNA play our style. We're not GONNA get caught up in your game. So very I, I got a ton a ton of more respect for the heat. I love them before and you know that we talked about the heat all the time on this show I love the Miami Heat. Before I am I am putting them on. A pedestal where I will remember this particular team almost like the Detroit Pistons almost like The Dallas Mavericks when they beat Lebron I will remember this team and I think this year's team will be the Astros when we're moving forward talking about NBA in the future, how you could build a team that not necessarily have a top five player and maybe Jimmy Butler is a hall of fame, but he's not a first ballot hall of Famer, and this is a really impressive group from coaches all the way down the players. Scale speaking of Jimmy Butler I know you've been one of his biggest supporters you mentioned before on our show that he was your rookie in when you were toward the end of your career as a player for the Chicago Bulls he's a controversial guy scale obviously what he's done to a couple of different franchises in a couple of different spots Chicago. Minnesota and then Philadelphia bringing up scale because does this validate those actions it seems to me that at least to some extent, it does Jimmy. Butler was unhappy. It's easy to blame the player when there's a disgruntled player say what is he doing? What is he doing to? Fred Hoiberg the coaches, Chicago at the time or what is he doing locker room to Tom sibito Thomas his guy, how can you quit on that team? However scale his points which in hindsight look pretty accurate given that he is now in the NBA finals and the three teams he left combined scall- Chicago, Minnesota, and Philadelphia have not been to the NBA finals in the last decade. So Jimmy's they're they're not does this validate his actions even though they were controversial he's a stubborn hard headed son of a gun but does validate the way he acted in getting what he wanted, and that's to become a member of the Miami Heat. Yeah. So I didn't think that he was like the way he got out of Chicago and went to Minnesota all in. You know he wanted to be back with Tibbs and he wanted to win. He wanted to help that franchise turnaround. I'm sure in his mind he has an idea of how he wants to play. The, how people should be held accountable to the work that you put in? The only thing I had I didn't like that he did was the the towel waving and I think it was in Sacramento. Or maybe it was gone. State was one of those two and I didn't like that he was on the bench in the crowd on the road. He was waving the towel I kinda cheer on with I just thought that that was over the line but everything else like this game is like I. Know a lot of people see it very differently like for instance, when you watch the last dance, you wreck, you recognize that Jordan is a ridiculous competitor but. If Jordan was let's just Percentage Twenty twenty, five percent not as good of a player as we has he was. That Line of of a distraction versus like the winning mentality win at all costs. That line is is a fine line when you're not the greatest player to ever walk when you're not Larry Bird you're not magic and coby when you're not those guys. Then all of a sudden you look like a tyrant and everyone has a problem with it and you win the coach does something wrong and he calls the coach out then. Everyone's like Oh my God how could you possibly do that when players don't care about winning and they're making thirty million dollars and he calls those guys out you're a bad locker room guy. So I come from a different like you know like Oh eight is is the epitome of that guys weren't guys never held back we had all kinds of controversy. It was just it was a controversy four days a week at that place right and it was like everyone kind of pushed each other to be like more elite or more competitive. That was this a very competitive grew. But what happens when you put a Kevin Garnett around a bunch of guys that don't care like how does that like unfold? Kevin Garnett's miserable during that time and I don't even think Jimmy Butler is a level of Kevin Garnett. But clearly when he's Zehr, he is a upper echelon competitor and the rest of the guys like they don't necessarily want it to be that way every single day the work, what are you doing before? What are you doing after Practice Competitive Games competitive getting ready before the game after the game the bus, a lot of players in the NBA. They don't want that life man they want it to be easy. They got their money. They've been told how great they were their whole life. They've they've been rewarded. You're talking about Karl Anthony towns and and Wiggins as top top picks in the draft. How in their mind? Are they thinking that they're doing it wrong? They went to college. They were the top pick in the draft and they'd gotten paid when they're mine like they've done everything they've accomplished. What they are they're they're not in their my they're thinking I gotta be better leave a legacy but Jimmy Butler this guy was homeless sleeping under way last pick in the first round. Then he goes in works his way to becoming a star in all star like that Beck rhyming is inside of him. That's not going away because he now all of a sudden, he got a little bit a coin in his pocket. So I've always said the. Only thing I had a problem with with the towel waving I thought that was over the line outside of that I never problem with the way he acted him billy Minnesota or the way he wanted to get out in Chicago. That's just I. Think I know he's a competitive guy he wants to win and I think in this situation is a perfect fit because his pat Riley Erik Spoelstra, the heat organization, and the young guys they're also like that. Yes. They are in the Miami Heat the fifth seed in the Eastern Conference, or attempting to be the lowest seed to win a championship since one, thousand, nine, hundred, five, Houston Rockets did it at a sixty to ninety five an in Miami goes into it is the fifth seed out of the Eastern Conference the Lakers. Obviously the one seed in the western conference in for Jimmy Butler antics. Gal if he didn't do all that, we wouldn't have gotten those great general soreness memes and videos, and when he dress like a military general, you know said General. Soreness you look like you're in the civil war or something like that. You know and Jimmy even like got a kick out of that. We have a question from one of our regular viewers and listeners on twitch TV that is slim Shaney ten. Slim shady ten scale wants to know as far as the Boston Celtics. They lost last night in game six to mine either season is now over upscale for the Boston Celtics, Shaney ten wants to know what is the goal or what should be the goal for the Boston Celtics this season. Who Man so mean. So I think Danny should do what he should do. I think you have to upgrade upgrade not you're starting big but your backup big I think you need a little bit more versatility Da- position I look at a guy I don't think he's available but like a rashawn homes type of player a big that could stretch and shoot the three a guy who can run the floor. Basically Robert Williams who plays hard and can shoot at three I think it will allow the team to play a little bit better. Now, there could be some internal growth for Rob Williams and grant Williams I. I really. I've always liked grant Williams I. think he's a good player. He's not as long as draymond green tight like draymond green I think seven, four, seven, five, wingspan. Grants is like six ten, but they're both the same height. Maybe that's not good enough to play that position over the course of eighty two game season or whatever it is looks like next year but they need and I love angle types. I have no problem at five million bucks like he's one of the best values in the entire league. But I feel like you have to address that issue, you can't. Have a guy who has a glaring weakness canter good player offensively glaring weakness on the Defensive End Rob Williams good player when he's engaged not always engaged. If you're a championship level team, the big you're bringing in have to be Daniel ties or better. So I think that would be the first thing. The second one is and Ryan maybe you can speak to this a little bit more of how it works. Gordon Hayward has a thirty million dollar. Bike wouldn't wouldn't it behoove the Celtics and Gordon Hayward like see into the future but wouldn't it be better to opt out of that and then kind of commit to you know an eighteen million dollar a year for the next four years wouldn't that be better for Gordon Hayward and be better for the Boston Celtics moving forward. As, option amount is actually thirty four, point, two, million scalp, which is one of the highest individual salaries league as i. get my thinking cap on here in Scalp House, a scale. Ask me the tough CBS related questions. So I think there are two schools of thought here. Right? Gordon Hayward in his early Thirties This is going to his next contract. If he gets another big contracts, almost certainly going to be his last significant contract right scale of you know fifteen or twenty million or more a year for. Four years, something like that So he has to look at it both ways. Now he controls it it is a player option. So basically, Gordon Hayward Agent Mark Bartlestein all they have to do is give up thumbs up thumbs down as far as opting in or opting out ops out he's an unrestricted free agent and you can sign with any team if he ops in he's. Under contract for one more year at thirty, four, point two. US. Gal It has been reported that he is going to opt in my guest is from the players perspective I understand what you're saying I think that does make a lot of sense from the teams side keep him on the team. The Celtics don't control this Gordon Hayward and his agent control it so I would guess. Gordon he missed some time this year he did not have as his best year he was better. I think you know prior to the pandemic shutting down the League. Then he was in the Orlando bubble especially after the injury and then a lot of mitigating circumstances as wife had a baby. So we left the bubble. For a while to be around his wife before a son was born I someone who is scale I think. Opting in and playing the year out thinking he's going to play better next year than they did this year while pocketing the thirty four point two million. Fairly certain. That's what he and his agent are GonNa. Do I understand. What you're saying from the team's perspective but this is not a mutual decision. The decision read strictly with Gordon Hayward. Mark Bartlestein and my guess is they opt in at thirty four point two so. Maybe maybe. You so if he lets say there's thirty four say goes down to twenty. Two that doesn't necessarily mean the Celtics have fourteen million dollars space, right? Now let's say he does opt into the thirty four million. Jalen Brown star his adoption I mean his contract starts and I think it's like twenty two kimball walkers at like thirty. So. Wouldn't him doing that I get the one sense you're thirty, four million and then I'm going to try to cash in the following year and maybe maybe eighteen is too low maybe four years eighty million would be better or or something like that. But. Like a point where you're just like all right I'm going to take less now, but I'm going to get more in the future. We you think Gordon Hayward will make between the thirty four million and the rest of his career. You think that he'll make more than eighty million dollars with the injury history doesn't seem like the type of guy that is going to play. He'll probably get another one year deal or two year deal at that point he'll be playing you know like that for significantly less amount at thirty two with the ankle and a couple of injuries I mean that's how I see it but. What do I know about this stuff? I don't know anything you. You're the one and established values. I'm the one that owes you a steak dinner and a glass bottle of wine for the drum opt in. So explain to me how would how this would work out with? With Gordon Hayward opting out that'd be beneficial to him. Just, the benefit is that he he pockets thirty four point two, million no matter what even if you can't play basketball again, he gets that amount. And then as far as your market like I feel like not only would he and his agent Mark Bartlestein before going thirty four point two million by opting out. But settling for a lesson number and I don't think you're upscale as far as the value around the League form eighteen to twenty million. But that's almost half of what he's making now. So the Their thought processes take the money. You don't want to negotiate from a position of weakness you negotiate from position of strength. Clearly, if Gordon Hayward ops out in my opinion, he is out he is in a market that from a position of weakness because the pandemic struck and revenues went way down. So teams around league, how less money to spend and he did not play. Very well, and there's some questions about his long term health and durability. So that's why I'm fairly certain. This isn't coming from you know danger anybody in the Celtics from office but from a logical perspective, he ops in at thirty four point two plays it out next year he's still thirty one years old and free agency, and then just says, look we'll deal with it then. Then agent have more control than and will have the money in my pocket scale. We're GONNA take a quick break right here. Coming back on the other side, we're going to bring in our boy, the NBA insider Rick Bugler stay tuned scale mcdonagh, and bucur coming back on the other side on scalpel on radio DOT com.

NBA Miami Celtics Boston Celtics Jimmy Butler Gordon Hayward La Lakers Scallon mcdonagh League Mark Bartlestein Ryan mcdonagh Chicago Denver Nuggets Scallon Pals Boston Kevin Garnett Denver Gordon Hayward basketball
What's next for Celtics after Gordon Hayward opts out?

Winning Plays

41:20 min | 2 weeks ago

What's next for Celtics after Gordon Hayward opts out?

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network the leading online provider for the NBA's winningest franchise. Hey there folks welcome in to another edition of the winning Place podcast. My name is Brian Rob and we have breaking news out of the gate bridge Levine is back after paternity leave after the last few weeks. My phone is still off today. He's got a big thing come up tomorrow. We'll talk about that next week, but for now rigid paid was it paid paternity leave that we did that we discussed that. Yeah, we're going through the benefits package. So I think it's America rich, Richmond is back ryburn Tony here has always during this offseason and Rich. What a what a time to come back into the fold on the back of a free agency with Gordon Hayward turning down thirty-four million dollars on a player option just hours ago will just go around horn here to start Ryan. I've talked about this month. But Rich will be good to get just your fresh fresh perspective here to to begin. My first my first perspective is what anti-climactic deadline that was, huh? I'll be waiting waiting all week for Tuesday then waiting all week for Thursday. The deadline comes and still everything is pretty much in play. Yeah, am I right in saying this like so we know we know that he's not go back for one year at 34 or whatever it is. I don't think so. But everything else is still in place not like he's gone. It's not like he's still can't come back. It's not like there are the trees aren't still potentially inimical. Like my first reaction was just anti-climactic. I wanted a little bit more from today's deadline. It would be hilarious if he re-signs for one year 34.2 million three or four page one. Yes. It's like make them pay for that extra time. But to be I was I was thinking about I was texting people earlier in the Latimer like in the last couple of hours just saying about like the potential end game here and like I do wonder if something like that is on the table for him, like maybe if a player talk option attached to that in the case where it's like that's a clear all turn off. Have to obviously him walking away from nothing through Celtics. But if he isn't willing to commit here long-term and doesn't want to be traded to a place that he doesn't want to go to then it's like that could be a conceivable like Middle Ground. I don't even know I mean that sounds loud even speculate about but like we're it's I have trouble seeing what the endgame is here be honest. I'm a trade right now. So I I mean my number just from like we have more clarification on a number of different things that happen. We're still waiting to see what exactly is going on with this Memphis trade for the 30th pick. I don't think there's been a formal and woke up exactly what that is and I've been sort of speculating that maybe that includes Canter but I don't have any way of knowing that for sure. They've been in Safari as now on what they out to New Jersey City and we know that they did move the 30th pixel like we have a little bit better numbers. Now what I've come up with is like if they could offer him three years sixty nine million dollars right around there, which is a good number because there's different ways you could like structure with some other movies. I think they could get like right under the tax with that if it was can't hear was out. They obviously have to sign other players to fill out the roster and you have to bring a center in and spend a little bit of money there. But like you can make it work or if you start about 25 million, then you can come in like right under the tax and then have it descend. So you're not spending quite as much in the next couple years. I'm going to be back over the tax if Canter's in wage. Make it a sin and you sort of flip the money around but that number right there like Dodges the tax this year would give him the thirty-four million that he opted out of and then basically a two year 35 million a year 35 mental extension on top of that which seems like you know, sort of fair market Price maybe a little bit below what people think but you get that 34 million back in as well and like that would seem to be like if there's any chance of him coming back and that's not a new number right? We've been kicking around numbers right back for the the idea of the opt-out re-sign from the beginning. And so if you think there's any chance of him coming back, I think that number is still sort of the most likely but it's no longer a point of like is it like that would be sixty million could they go to eighty million? So it's sort of like, okay. We're it's right around that 70 number where they could get the value of staying under the tax and and really the value of that is avoiding the repeater at some point the finger right here spending. Yeah, so and then how much more Ryan so we know we know like the Charlotte can go as high as like nineteen right how much more none of us think that the Knicks or the Hawks are going to max out Gordon Hayward. It's not have asked them know so so what's realistically how much more do you think that he can get and one of these two other places? I don't know if there's that much more out there in a three-year deal. It's possible if somebody will go up for three years or three years in a fourth-year player option, whatever might be and that there could be more total money out there for sure. Is there somebody willing to go for a hundred? You know, maybe I would think maybe somebody would go, you know for a hundred but the last year is half guaranteed or something like that. Like, you know, you sort of fudge the numbers a little bit that's still a lot. I think for the ridge you're taking with with his health. I mean maybe you guys are just like, oh, you know these there are people who think that these are not like injuries that are injury-prone injuries, right? They're held to sort of like freak injuries. I think that's a hard thing to sell especially as he moves into his thirties. So I don't know if there's that much money more than that out there. I think there's much money is out there in. No honest. Well, I think I think 370Z probably out there somewhere. I think that Atlanta maybe the Knicks maybe Charlotte can't really get there unless it's a sign-and-trade although we work, you know, there's a good relationship between the teams and based on what what the the last year. And they could try to jump the salary to like Charlotte, Yeah, you can hiring and then make some more room but I look could go right back to Indiana and like salary match off of of course Myles Turner the name that always comes up here and you get back to the same sort of number again. It's like but I think that that that's sort of the number where he's most likely doing it. Maybe we all just sort of shocked and it gets blown away and there's like, oh my God, why would anybody give them that that offered sometimes that happens but only takes one way yeah, totally right? I mean that's what it is like the Knicks get left out everything else and they're sitting there going. Well, we gotta we gotta make the salary floor somehow and we don't want to you know, we want somebody to throw lobs to our 18 power forwards. I don't know. What was that know. So at this point assuming assuming the Gordon because I mean Mannix just Chris Max just we had before we started recording. This is Thursday night that we're doing this that Gordon Hayward is most likely played his last game and a Celtic uniform. Yeah, and if that's the case don't you think Myles Turner is a pretty good return know like I don't own no. don't think that's Good value on that contract like in a would you like Myles Turner over nothing next year absolutely. Like he's you know a slightly above-average player for a center. But when you when he's making twenty million dollars for the next two years on top of that and you could you know have a center for like half the money that's pretty much as good. I prefer that option over committing money to Turner that will kind of squeeze your flexibility. So my guess is if if Hayward is is hard intent on going to Indy and there are you know, I'm a reason to think that is the case in some form here. Then it is, you know, just a chess match between this other foreign office and and Pritchard with the Pacers in terms of being like give us something Beyond Turner that we want to make us do this and showed him his son his son Peyton. I mean, you know how much I you know, my sort of yeah General Disco Like four miles Turner, I think you would still have to do it. If it was that or nothing would it have to be that or nothing? Cuz it's like that here. It has to have somewhere else to go and that situation and that's where I think the Knicks off in the Hogs come into play here because I'm not convinced like they are going to be waiting around for with an offer for Hayward. Like if you look at the names out there on the fridge of Market with only 2000 teams have serious cap room here. Like you're talking van Fleet Christian would you know Joe Harris? Obviously, you could stay put Montrezl Harrell Milsap Gallinari. Jeremi Grant bertans bogdanovic, Pope. Some of those guys are staying put but some of those guys aren't staying put and all it takes is like two offers from those teams and haywards leverage goes away just like that. So what are the Celtics doing that situation like in your in your mind? That's I mean, that's question. Why do you want him back if you what is that is that it seems like it might be time for them to go their separate ways off. Yeah, I agree with you rich in terms of like if you wants out then I say, okay. We'll get I want something else Beyond just Turner from Indy. That's a valuable like our because or I'd rather just have Hayward on a year and then maybe you you know, like you say you do that player option or you you trade him midseason or some like that you hold out for something a little off if you're saying that's off the table. If you're going under the premise of there's no way he's coming back and he would sign he would go to New York, whatever and and like your options are I'm going to go sign in New York, or you can trade me to Indiana and they're saying they will send back Myles Turner to make it work and like if you just cut everything else out in those the only two options. We would do go to Every signing with and and say we'll give you a draft pick to make this a sign-and-trade and we'll take a trade exception. They might say no to that even then. I don't know. I'm like, would you rather have a trade exception or would you rather have Myles Turner? Almost rather betrayed. I mean maybe Turner for the like obviously obviously Turner for next year, but depending on how big that trade exception is. Like I just don't see Turner's value increasing think that's not going to be a plus contract at all during it's written. I mean I could be wrong. No, I don't either right or Bradley be that do you like do you like mousetrap? Like what's I mean twenty million isn't what it used to be. Right? Like that's that's actually like not that much money. I mean talking about a starting NBA Center who can shoot who can block shots like literally led the league in blocked shots and what he doesn't rebound right? Right. Is that what you guys big big knocks on Myles Turner? Again, and and he's this situation million dollars for a center is basically my knock on him. He's a fine. I mean, he's a okay. He's an average starting center and like you can get those guys for five million dollars. So why pay 18 million to any of them? Are you sure we have and have Daniel theis five million dollars worth of like sneak. That's an upgrade that turn as an upgrade on size. I mean, I've been in this argument over and over with different people. I don't think I think it's a you know a slight downgrade if you want to tell me it's a slight upgrade, you know, depends on the matchup sort of either way either way you're saying it's slight and the money doesn't doesn't make that's my main problem with it. Yeah, and now twice every time you spend five million dollars I said, you don't get off work out as well as Daniel's eyes. I completely understand that but just look at the center Market this year and who has money and it's like somebody good and and just good and reliable is going to go for the tax, you know the facts. Ellie yeah, and and again, it's not necessarily the Celtics will be able to be the team that signs those players is a number of teams. Are we looking for him? But like it just isn't doesn't seem to be a good use of resources. But but really liked to the reason I would do it is because I want matching salary and a name player that I can try to trade for Bradley Beal in a year. And if you sign somebody, you know, if you pick somebody up out of the scrap into a into a trade exception that player just got dumped for basically nothing or maybe one draft pick like how much value they really have and there's a lot of like just anchoring right on like what are people's perceptions of a player is worth and would Washington can you know, see twenty-four twenty-five year-old Myles Turner as being better than whatever you feel with trade exception if ultimately that's like your end game. It's I want to be able to trade in in a year off or Bradley Beal or in two years or three years for Devin Booker. Like that's what you're hoping for sort of how this play out and and including Kemba and all that stuff is is one way to make all the money work, but that's more complicated cuz wage. See a team trading away Bradley Beal isn't going to necessarily want camel Walker and it just it just sort of simplifies certain things. And even if it means that you have to pay two million dollars for a center who I don't particularly like for a year and risk getting stuck with them and having him not improving. Anyway, it's like think you have to just sort of bite the bullet and do it. If if literally your only other option is like we can get a TV but have to pay a first-round taking order to make it happen. That's that's pretty bad too. But even then though like you look at the Des staring match of the posturing match between you know, the bar scene is is trying to work right now dead and creating, you know, Hayward opting out the biggest thing you did was create, you know, he still has the leverage. He still has the the walk factor for nothing, but that could be gone by the end of Friday night if if the next and the Hawks use a big chunk of their cap room and then at that point, who do you guys think is in control Rich win if Hayward has nowhere to go he doesn't wash off. I'm back where you know and you don't like and if you're Danny agent, you don't like moisture in or you just don't like what they're offering a sign-and-trade like what what do you do in that spot when Hayward has no other boss real, you know, pretty course. Yeah. I mean, I guess a lot of it comes down to the real reason why Gordon might not want to be here anymore. Like do you guys think it's it's more money or it's more like, you know them both sides tried like the luck has been really shity and maybe he you know, he like he said he wasn't pitched come be the fourth option with with Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Kemba Walker right off that that wasn't why he came here and maybe he wants to leave for other reasons. What do you what do you think is it more money? Is it more fit as he want to change the scenery or he wants to get more money guaranteed? It's not going to get more money. He'll get more you get more money guaranteed over month of years. Right? But like as we started out saying like it's not going to get anywhere close to 34 next to you know, we're talking about a longer-term deal, but you have to really be thinking like I'm I'm going to have a bad enough years in Austin were like, there aren't going to be any better options next year and some of the stuff like coping in the cap not going up it but marks can be a little bit tighter than we thought next year but like they're still going to be a lot of money out there. And if he believes that he is a level of player who can go out and find other team then you think you would believe that he can have a good enough ear next year in order to get another contract. I think it's more the the other option is that he doesn't he doesn't like it here. He's he thinks it's cursed his own family doesn't particularly like it here. Maybe he doesn't like the role that he's in he wants to re-establish himself as an All-Star. He views himself as something different than what you know what I think he actually is at this time. And you put all that together and it's yeah, we'll just looking for something new a career change sort of sort of deal with my guess but you know, it's not like he's given us a lot of information wage went to the last second just to tell us if he was coming back or not. I don't I don't think there's been a whole lot more in terms of being forthcoming about this kind of stuff and the headlines still might be you can still come back right even with as you said it started out, you know, as you started out saying like this has nothing not a whole lot has actually changed here. So it's it's fascinating from that sound like I just how I mean, I think it would it's safe to assume that he's obviously looking around and you know coming back to Boston as far from you know option number one firm, but is it a What's difference between that versus like I don't want to go back no matter what and you know, maybe he want to see hey what what can I get out there? And you know, he wasn't going to know for sure what he took it out there unless he opted out here and clearly take the ball out of the Celtics hands in terms of you know, he lose all control and the Celtics probably aren't going to trade him or at least try to trigger month before million dollar option if he's not going to you know, play ball or signal that he's willing to stick around. And so maybe this is a way to just you know, he test the water here and there's not much there and so he it's eventually coming back to the Celtics. It's not the ideal thing that he wants but made for one year. It's what makes the most sense for for him. I don't know if it would make sense for the Celtics just to take him back for a year as opposed to obviously getting back some future resources for him but dead. Be an interesting decision if it comes to that and let's say he has a chance of he comes back and if you can somehow stay healthy, he could have a really really good year in the Celtics could still be really really good. Oh, yeah. Well, you know that that is a reality. That's the highest subside play I think for next year for sure. It's him back Nesmith fills the bench void for shooting em, you know, Langford Rob Williams growing, you know other bench guys develop they still can add a pretty they could add a player for 9 million with the mid-level that could be real useful Off the Bench and took a team there again that involves Hayward being there though to to to maximize that so just the sort of some of the edge stuff around around that if he comes back I am guessing they would not spend the mid-level be too hard to be a roster yet partly for tax purposes partly just cuz of roster Council like again, if you if chapters out then there's a little bit more money down. To maybe spend there and and kind of a need for another veteran solid Center. You would think there's a little bit in there. But like I don't know how much more there would be an in terms of improvement other than just internal Improvement of which should be substantial like the player that Jayson Tatum is this year's any better than the player. He was last year the player Jaylen Brown and and a Lankford is looking like it's going to be another injury-hit season. We might be he might be out for at least like half the season if he's dead. It's such a sensational argument. Yeah, I mean to come back for that. Basically One play get injured again now have multiple injuries missing the beginning of your second year and a condensed like all that we could maybe another day but there should be quite a bit of internal Improvement. I think that's where most of it would would come from. But yeah in terms of one year upside him coming back and in some manner, I think it would be very difficult for him to come back for one year for less than what he just left for though. And I don't think there's a scenario where the Celtics would re-sign him for that amount considering that it would be Fifteen million into the luxury tax and would they be better off just at that point just saying like I don't like Emily signings in general. I think that historically they're just bad to pay the full Emily but wage again in the situation of like trying to build up some salary for trades on the line. Would you just sign somebody for the mle at that point for three years and like say that that's better than bringing it back to that full amount and it just it's hard to break his agent would be hard for him to like opt-out come back for you know, basically one year and as you talk about maybe the second year two player option, you can make some things balance out like that, but that's why I sort of come down and I like three year number of like, hey, we are actually going to We don't want this to be a situation from where from day one. Everything is still strained and everything is still up in the air. We need some amount of settling here of like, okay, we're we're both are agreeing that we are going to be together here for at least a couple of years again. Otherwise, there's just such like a cloud hanging over everything as well and it's hard for me to see and I'd get the idea of like if there's no other options out there if there's no other options out there. I think that's when you come back to like three sixty-five million 368 million seventy million, right like in that sort of range and that's better for everybody unless it's really if he doesn't want to be in Boston then he's going to find them to leave. I agree. Yeah. I I just I wonder if it's at that point and if a football continues on this week, which has a few surprise teams at the top of the standings and you might not be able to be at a game. That's G, but you can still be in on the action at BetOnline no matter how the schedules change or players that play bet online is going that extra mile to make sure you can get in on every game this season with the fastest updated on job. Industry they're always more options to wager than anywhere else online. So head on over to bed online today and take advantage of all the great mid-season bonuses offers and contests met online your online Sportsbook experts and now back to the show Rich. Where's where's Brad Stevens in all this you think yeah, cuz he seems to suggest that he's kind of staying out of this, right? Yeah. That's why you last night and he said when he was like, you know, he said him and Gordon have had so many conversations over the years before they even came to Boston obviously and like you said, I think that Gordon's kind of just taking this with his agent like it's become a business right now and brought seems to be saying like he knows that I'm here if he needs to talk but like Gordon has all the information that he probably needs at this at this moment and in that's not to say that the conversations aren't happening happening with Gordon Danny, but I wonder how much Brad is having a say in it. It's probably easier for him to step out when you say yeah, I think so. I mean, this is a I mean, it's been tough enough to watch them go through this if you're Brad Stevens last few years and now, you know getting into middle something like this makes it even tougher but I do Wonder like you know, what is case, you know, if you're the Celtics with with Hayward right now and he's you know, he's obviously shown his not his regrets are just you know, his concerns about coming back in his role. And you know, whether this is the right spot for him, like where what can can the team do anything, you know better to sell may like next year. You know, we're going to rest kembo more so we're going to give you more operation or is it a point where it's like, hey, sorry like we have these two really great young players and you keep getting hurt. So like what do you want us to tell you there should give him Al Horford's phone number in case he doesn't yet. So I should say give this this guy call and and ask him how how Oklahoma City is so it's really point. The selling point to me is pretty straightforward write it down. You want to go play for the Knicks or do you want to go play for an NBA championship? And if he wants to go play for the next bill? That just tells you something about where he is in his career and in his decision-making. It's like you can't there's no getting around that problem. Right if he's like, I want to go be the best player on a team. Well, it seems not going to be a good all the power to him. By the way, if if you want to know go for it, but that's not a player that you then want to commit multiple years to if like if it's starting point is I want to I want to see the, you know be the man. Okay. Certainly wouldn't be the first player was wanted that but you're going to you're going to do that for a team. That's not going to the playoffs or that's going to be the AC and get swept out whatever else like sort of going back to the Brad Stevens thing. I I think that's an issue to me. I think there's quite a bit of shine like off the Brad stevens or at this point those shine in or it don't make any sense together, but For one thing like yeah, it's easier for him to step out of it. But he is the head coach of the Boston Celtics and he makes a lot of money to like coach management team and he couldn't make it work with Kyrie Irving and that has led to one of their direct Rivals having Kyrie Irving and the player who they had cut, you know, basically went and got Kyrie hoping to be able to attract or at least one of them actually two of their Rivals have the two players that they took a drag Kyrie Irving one in LA and one in Brooklyn and he couldn't really make that relationship work the breakdown of that relationship as well as financial reasons, like data over leaving. It's stuff that we talked about last episode, right? It's These are all things that you can talk about independently and then you get into late playoff series and like he's had a couple of times where you've looked at it and been like he's kind of getting outcoached as well like in the actual games in the series and that's not to say that Brad Stevens should be fired is not to say that he's not a good coach but you know each year that and some of this is just this is what happens is you stay in a place longer and longer each year. Some of the shine does come off of like wage is hasn't shown the greatest ability to manage established veteran stars and he hasn't shown that he's like the absolute best tactical coach in in games. And he has a very long contract and he makes a good amount of money and like some of these things are like, okay. Well it's easier for him to step out of the Gordon Hayward conversation, but it's also like important to the future of the Boston Celtics that this is all resolved in a way that is amenable to everybody and if he has any way of helping that then I would suggest that he should but the question I think becomes like what is helping that like enquiries case like do you think the Celtics would be better off right now if they took it up with Kyrie and convincing this day, I don't probably because he would have probably would have brought Kevin Durant. I mean so you so you think the the Nets are in a better place in the Celtics right now. Well, if you had Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant and Jayson Tatum, that would be pretty good. Right that would be pretty good. But we're talking about we're talking about Durant off his Achilles we're talking about Kyrie who has not since that since that one that series with LeBron has not shown that he's a guy you necessarily want to count on like if you guys literally quit in a playoff series. I don't know if that's all about his relationship with Brad Stevens as well as his relationship with himself probably more than birth. Yeah, I don't think he quit I think he threw the series like maybe I'm on the far end of the extreme, but I think he wanted to get out of Boston. It was like if we keep winning these series and I may have to that's going to be harder for me to leave and was like, I'm going to start losing these games. I have to be replaced them with and Kemba has his own challenges of in terms of being, you know being at the very top end of the playoffs as well. I think so in terms of like it's difficult to get away from the fact that Anthony Davis change teams and made it very clear that he did not want to come to the Celtics. And because I'm did in fact came up with Kyrie Irving and it's not with the Celtics. Like I don't know those that is pretty clearly what they were planning to try to achieve and you can say that it you know looking today maybe whether you would like it or not, but like what they were trying to achieve didn't happen because of a pretty significant breakdown between the team and a star player sure. But yeah, I just don't know if I go either Brad Stevens again the second part that you're talking about tactical like what happened against the Heat especially with Spoelstra again losing this poster is not you know, losing to the best right, but you don't think about Brad Stevens as a guy who's going to get coached. We have seen that happen, but I just don't necessarily think his relationship with the players. It doesn't concern me losing Kyrie Irving. I think I'm in Steve Nash probably is will learn that soon enough, right and how horribly I don't think that was because of of Of Brad Stevens. What do you think? It's just because you lost control of the team. Yeah. I mean, I think that's part of it. I think he was made it pretty clear that you know the relationship with Kyrie the entire state of the team. I think there was sort of did he say it actually that if he had known that Kendall was coming he he might have stayed like so she's saying right, but he he didn't he had a quick comment about it off and then the numbers wouldn't have worked. There's all the stuff that you can get whatever they can say that it wouldn't have they wouldn't be able to make it work it necessarily anyway, but Just the the way that that season went in the way that that very brief little era sort of collapsed in on itself. I don't think you can just absolve the head coach of that. And I also think that when you get into the playoffs like I think he got out goes out coached by Nick nurse as well. They won the series who they were a better team, but you know, if you're talking about tactical level like you see the 8th best tactical. I don't know. It's not dead. He's not the third-best. He's not the absolute best man manager. And again, I am not absolutely not calling him like to be fired. But if you're talking about where is he in the hierarchy of coaches like he's not The absolute best coach in the league right now. I think it's fair to you know in the top tier of them. Yeah. I think that that's a reasonable thing to say and this is just another part that plays into it. Like why is the guy who hears this relationship with wanting to leave the team? Is there something that could have been managed better along the way again, maybe it's not maybe all these things are just independent things and this is the way it goes. But you know, I think to your point, I mean, I think the last point you made is the biggest one I have right now with with perhaps even in like in the the Haywood relationship and you know, this is of any guy that you'd hope be able to manage that, you know are just help, you know, keep the Buy in or figure out what's going on there at least have you know, the the knowledge to give Danny age heads up being like hey, I don't know if Gordon it's like we don't know he didn't like we I mean true that could have happened anyway, and they just set up we're going to we're going to try to play this out cuz we're we think we have a chance of this last season and but to Rhinebeck to like defend brats, he was a little bit they're dead. I think kind of you know the front out, you know, I do think he was outcoached in those series, but I also think he was a guy short Off the Bench with Hayward heard and yeah, I'm not very limited object. I put just as much of the blame pie. I'm like the front office for that as like Stevens in terms of the coaching stuff like normal problem with that. Like I don't think it's been the best couple, you know, the best couple of years for the fridge is either in both cases. They'll your there's a slight degradation of this right there was a time not that long ago where it was like, oh they have one of the top three for an office has one of the top three or five head coaches and now it's like maybe they have one of the top ten front offices and one of the top ten head coaches, which is still very good and they have made three of the last four Conference Finals. Like this is not a bad team. It's not a bad front office. Not a bad coaching staff. They the thing that they've done the best with over the last couple of years is making some very astute including the one of the best draft decisions you'll ever see with with Tatum and developing Young Players Club. Which is really important like hugely important. It's why they've gotten to where they want. So it's not like every single thing is in the negative. This is not the Knicks being coached by Mike Woodson or something like this is feeling good situation, but the small margin of error at the top two between getting green if we hold all the players so that standard why why not also hold the coaching and front-office to that standard. It's I guess where I'm coming from, let's let's pivot to wrap up to the draft for a second unless we have any I mean any closing thoughts in the Hayward situation before we talk to rep or Thursday to bring It full circle that's you know, when we talk about what what what kind of fucked-up that the most recent error that Kyrie Irving era of of Celtics basketball. It's that first injury, right? I mean that really changed everything and Thursday. My throat is that Gordon was not able to stay on the court and I don't know what anyone was going to do to fix that important point that we we did not bring it to this like that. It is like the whole everything changed with that and it's never we saw glimpses of I think here it is best at points during this past season, but then they were derailed with injuries. In the midst of those. So again that makes me who is going to throw a big money of the guy that's been dealing with that's been that snake-bitten. I'm not sure, but it will be interesting to watch on Friday. But we go to the draft Now Rich the the draft pile of pics is is gone now officially and a good run. It was a good run like a few seconds. I got this year. We got a couple of seconds. They got a couple seconds for the number 30 I I don't watch too many college basketball. So, you know Ryan I had Max growing on who I wanted to laugh at how much he hated all the subjects pics last night. It was all cocky he was not enough but I kind of liked it a sense in a lease got they got Shooters, they like filled a need and I think somewhere where you know, the the drafting hasn't been great at least outside of the top-10. Obviously. The last few years is, you know, getting guys that aren't going to get on the floor under Brad Stevens and at least I think in Nesmith and Pritchard, it's a couple of guys that are look like they're ready to help generate. You know, these are can hit threes against his own you guys see the Pritchards older than Tatum. I don't know if that's been mentioned a bunch already but no find the yep. What does he treat each month old right after he was born in January of 98 and then Tatum's marks of ninety-eight. So it's like a month-and-a-half older but still Wild. And yeah anytime you can get a guy when they say the best shooter in the draft from talking about. You know Nesmith that's that's what we can say three Angie guy. That's a nice if if he takes just takes jammies minutes to start, you know, we can go we can go from there. But it's I have no problem with the draft. I don't know like you say, I don't watch too much college hoops, but looks promising. I got a guy named yam of cause that way I can give an in-depth scouting report on. Yeah. I'm now now you guys own Emoji who knew there was a yam Emoji page for him or yeah, I mean so we obviously did have Max on and it's funny if you go back and listen to that episode like how much he how much of a disdain he has for some of the players who thought the Celtics ended up taking and how the players who he really really wanted them to take were all there and in some cases went to like one went to the Sixers like it's it's pretty funny and they were doing a live show that night dog. Is actually listening to instead of watching the ESPN feet cuz he has been so far behind what everybody's actually announcing on on Twitter. You know, we'll just and chance are breaking every single pic and they're talking to fix behind. So I was off Twitter for the job and I loved it. Right. I'm never off to it. I don't know how but their show like it was Max's also Celtics fan. He was just like devastated when when the pics came in which I find to be a little funny. I mean, I I always say I'm a draft nihilist like I don't believe that anybody should be that strongly invested in like their analysis of fixed. There's obviously a large difference between the guy who's the first over of the guy who's the 30th overall pick but there's not really a difference between the guy who's 14th and the guy who's nineteen just isn't like they're all in the same grouping go for it if there's a guy you like but there's this thing of people are like dogs lying on their like, oh my God, I can't believe they didn't take Tyrese Maxey. This was he was right there. He's perfect. He's the guy he has to be the one and the guy who they took as a stiff and he's never going to be anything more than a role player. And why would you do that? I'm just like nobody knows this and stop being so, Your own analysis. There's like how many how many weeks ago. Did you realize Tyrese Maxey exists people like draft Twitter like they watch a ton of video. Like that's great. I'm like that's you just there's no amount of video that you can watch for them to beat the draft. I promise everybody all of the teams, even the bad things even the teams that don't draft well have a lot of people who watch all the video like the Celtics have multiple people who have watched every relevant minutes out of all of the draft guys who they were considering entire lives. Like this is just it's not a matter of like that you can out video watch and and if people want to play in that space and have it be their hobby or whatever it might be then and that's fine just like don't get too attached to your own specific evaluations and try to keep like a big picture here of that. All of these guys are probably going to fail, you know, not not literally all of them, but like more of them are going to fail than are going to become anything really important. So, you know, I sort of come at it from that standpoint. I don't mind the Nesmith pic Daw. Um, I know what again we talked him on that episode. I think the point that I had brought up with what Max the thing about him was like if he's whenever you have a guy whose singular Talent is shooting. There is a risk that like they get off to a bad start and they shoot 34% in the first two hundred shots of their career and just like never recover from it. They just gas station and they're they don't get another chance and they end up on another team as a second draft guy and maybe they work out somewhere else where like are there any examples of that? You can think of I must and they don't exist. I just like to put a name to the I mean Chris Middleton those guys weren't as highly drafted. But yeah, I mean you can just get off to ya carsen Edwards will see yeah, right and like that can happen if you just have a particularly variable scale, but I don't think Nesmith is exactly that from what I can tell again. I don't know anything about him really but like anytime you draft a guy who's six six with a 6:11 span and you know pretty solid muscles, right whatever like he's not in the oil a factory exactly. But like this is not like a lightweight guy. It's not RJ Hunter and he bought some amount of offensive skills like to me that's actually a pretty high up sidekick almost always like just they have those are the guys who go 14th or 25th or whatever in the draft because they have some holes and then they become Klay Thompson. Unfortunately with the injury that we we heard about today, but also, you know, Chris Middleton and Jimmy Butler and Paul. George is a little bit bigger Kawhi Leonard, like none of those guys were known to be All NBA players are they would all been the first pick in their classes? Like they're all just sort of fit this profile like oh, yeah, they're about that size and they have these skills and they have a good NBA body and that is sort of by Nature a high-upside play off to me. It's actually a relatively big swing of like if he can't if he has a bad shooting stretch and he ends up not working out and losing the trust of the coaching staff, then it could be a bust but like he also does have the profile of somebody who could break out and be really good. And so I don't know I don't I don't have a problem with it. I'd but you go back to the idea of like I wouldn't have really had a problem if they ten other guys as well cuz I don't know that much about him and they're all probably kind of the same name just don't pick a center. I'm happy and I guess the biggest thing is they're they're going to get a shot right away cuz really like fruits hurt and ship me off going to be gone Brad Wanamaker. I'd imagine there's a chance he's back but he's probably going to be gone and who knows Gordon here which would be gone to so well, they need wings. I mean, they they definitely birth. Has a ton of wings, but especially in Hayward leaves like they need Wings everywhere. You need Wings These Wings, they need they need Wings hayward's leaving cuz I've like originally might come back and under some circumstances. I like seeing that you don't want him playing on the wing form for you. It's just if you have no choice. So they're going to probably a guy or two and for you to see yeah, it's good, you know getting a point backup point guard was a need and a wing was a neat and they got a couple of Shooters of those spots that arguably some of the best in the class. So it'll be interesting to see them just hit the ground running about summer league. Like how do you like training camp Bridge just them guys will probably be joining mid training camp depending on like quarantining and taking when they sign in free agency or when trains go down. It should be pretty just nuts and the next month. Yeah. That's a good wage. It's nuts. I think about the time this game and it's going to be the worst quality basketball. Anyway this game three torn ACLs for Christmas the picture pictures of everybody hates that day. I really within Celtics player just not real life. That's just one slice of it, but like everybody hates that pic and I'm just like they need a backup point guard and I don't know seems fine. Yep. The parking lot from the highlights. There is 6 to like he looks tiny but he's visiting like TJ McConnell. I think people look at me like why are we drafting TJ McConnell? He's just like little white guy. You're like, he's actually like 6 to he's he was the boss name is the point guard of the year last year and in all of college. He can shoot Bob Cousy whatever there's plenty of those guys to like again. If you're sorry I said if you in that sort of area where the cells are drafting draft of sometimes they break out and turn good. If you're looking for backup point guards, there's just so many back up when cars that have dropped between like twenty-five and forty-five and they all looked kind of like this or like a lot of older players who had really good success in college and they come in and they play as backup point guard for four or five years and then you get another one. It's fine got shut out from Dame Lillard on Twitter. That's good enough for me. Pretty sure did. Yeah. Yeah song like congrats dad does for you rich speaking of which time for me to go back to dating indeed. All right. Well, thanks for coming back aboard. Yes. I'll do have some be able yo. Tomorrow morning tomorrow morning with this is all over. This is all Everything Everything Has Changed we can we can get back together and and discuss again. All right, we'll get this posted. Hopefully if in ten minutes worth it gets to dated, but hit us up at winning play Spot on Twitter hit Rich up at Richard Levine at danger cart at Bryant. I robbed and we will be back with you guys. Hopefully I if something big happens will be back this weekend with an update and everything and as always thanks for listening.

Myles Turner Celtics Brad Stevens Hayward five million dollars Turner Bradley Beal Gordon Hayward Knicks Kyrie Irving Jayson Tatum one year three years Gordon Jaylen Brown Charlotte Brian Rob Canter thirty-four million dollars New Jersey City
Living It Up

Highly Questionable

20:34 min | 11 months ago

Living It Up

"Accidentally welcome the highly questionable. I'm Dan you may have noticed this little crowded up here. Everyone's in town for the Super Bowl. Gutierrez this is Katie Nolan. Let's get started. Get it right postponing. Tonight's Clippers Lakers game. I find a hard time telling other people how to grieve and then criticizing the choices made amid that grief. The idea that we questioned things in sports all the time is obviously something. That's very common but when you want to look at the coverage of Kobe. Brian and people saw immediately that. ESPN didn't move on from the pro bowl. It's at least in part because we have no handbook for how to handle any of what it is. We're presently Lee handling and so you're fair to criticize whatever it is. You WanNA criticize but when you look at what's happening around this. I think it's a lot of displaced anger that forms into criticism system because it's all helpless. Nothing can change what happened. There's no fixing it and so you just put the anger wherever it is that anyone will take it whether it's ESPN furring the pro bowl or the the NBA for playing games when they should have cancelled them on Sunday. Sunday was such a shocker. And I've heard the discussion about it being the saddest day in Sports Saturday in basketball. The ball. I don't think there's any question for me. It was the saddest day in sports and I thought Monday was a day for people to discuss this. Just have it out in the open to talk about it to explain gene or help others. Have you explain why it meant so much to you why Kobe had. Why Kobe's passing these feelings just so heavy for most people about a demanded never even met and so it was just about understanding that a little bit better and yesterday watching some basketball and frankly for me it was soothing and it felt like a lot of the players that were out? There were distracted in just the right way after they're after they're sort of memories in their tributes to Kobe but I don't think. LA is ready. I don't think. La is close to ready. I I mean could you imagine sort of those of us who happen to have our careers tied to this league forever like myself. I'm lucky enough to do that. This changes the entire story of everything this changes the MBA from now and forever. So imagine trying to be Lebron James Right now who just passed Kobe Bryant who just made his big brother super proud proud and who now is thinking about having that spirit on his back that extra burden. He's supposed to be a guy who's chasing ghosts in terms of championships. He's not supposed to be a guy who has a ghost sort of spurring him and pushing him. That's a lot for la to Hamblur right now in on that floor where Kobe and g g were just there a few weeks weeks ago a couple of weeks ago and in creating this this image that will live forever but with the two of them discussing that that was way too much for La to handle the right now. I I think they did the right thing. And just let people grieve. Who knows when they're actually going to be ready? Today's not that day. Yeah I mean I think ended up pretty perfectly. I know when I heard the news on Sunday. I felt like there was no way that they were going to be able to play any basketball games. which is shocking devastating news? And they did and I know for me personally. It was tough to see people grieving in such bright lights. It was just a strange. You don't normally see that it's hard enough to grieve. It's very hard to grieve publicly. It's very difficult. Ashok situation and people are all going to grieve differently. I think is the right call that they cancelled the game. It's the call they made and you just have to accept it like Dan said. Everyone grieves differently. We have to stop litigating each other's grief and telling people how they're supposed to handle things. Were trying to figure it out together. There is no handbook. It's sad it's complicated. It's tough and you know we just have to deal with what it is and move forward together. I don't think we should be criticizing anyone's decisions. Do you believe Gordon Hayward when he says he didn't step into the lane to help out Kobe. The question is really. Do I believe that whopper telling Mike. ARECO formerly of this network went on the podcast with Ryan Russillo and told the story of Gordon Hayward trying to help Kobe Bryant get to sixty by stepping stepping into the lane on this play in the event that he missed a free. Throw at fifty. Nine and Gordon Hayward is here to tell you that Mike to Rico's a big liar that that it is just something that he did it by accident that he was competing the entirety of the game and he would never give. Kobe has sixtieth point. Which seems strange to me because I thought we all thought it was a heartwarming in light of tell them to Rica was just sort of embellishing a little bit of story that he had heard first of all? It's an incredible story. And what makes it even better. Is that when you watch the video you truly. I can't tell you can't tell if it was an accident or if he's doing it on purpose and if it if he's doing it on purpose he's doing a great job of acting like he could later. Tell people that he did it by accident. I also think it's one of those situations. Where if Gordon Hayward came out and said Yeah I did do that? I wanted to make sure Kobe was okay. The story is immediately. Not as cool was it was before you want the guy say Nah. I didn't give Kobe anything. I went out there and I played as hard as I could. Because that's Kobe would have wanted for me. And if he changed the I believe in both I believe because that's how it has to be in order for this story to remain agreed ceautiful. Perfect story right. Oh because either way you look at it. It's basically a tribute to Kobe. The Way to Rico told that in the Brotherhood and the fraternity of the NBA Makes Sense. But it's also just the respect respect factor. The Way Gordon Hayward said he wouldn't do that and frankly if I'm Gordon Hayward and I'm watching Kobe Bryant shoot for sixty two you really think. I think he might miss it. It's is Kobe Bryant and he had fifty nine points on his last day. Which is why I was just marveling at this game in general watching it over and ESPN made a great decision to rerun? Run that That game last night and just marveling at early on. He looked like he had nothing. He was over five and then it just happens like that. And then when you hear Gordon Hayward tell you yeah I wasn't giving him anything. This was a shocker. To us we were up double figures in the fourth quarter and then this happened and gives you sixty and he gives you the speech and he drops the microphone and it was absolutely perfect and you didn't realize how perfect was until now. Can you guys imagine if Gordon Hayward had done that Tequila O'Neill in his final game trying to get him. We wouldn't have been there until right now would still be shooting. Free throws and Gordon Hayward would be doing the cha-cha and the lanes underhand Eh. I only reference the cha-cha represented cha-cha earlier. That called lines whoppers. How old AM I? How old am I chair? It's the sea. Did you believe that Philip rivers has the magic left. The informed speculation of Jay Glazer is that because Philip rivers has moved out of San Diego that he is done with the the chargers in every way and he was pretty terrible last year throwing an accurate interceptions at a time and football. Where that gets? You made Jameis Winston you. Can't it be that kind of reckless. Because you've got too many guys in the league throwing two and three and four interceptions. I believe Philip rivers can throw for three hundred yards into his forties. I also believe that this turnover problem was alarming. Trying to fix it all year. And he couldn't Philip rivers sabotage. The chargers season that the year before they were good enough to win the Super Bowl. This year was his fault and I'm not surprised they're moving on. I thought it was interesting reading this when he first moved to Florida. Because it's like wow. It's a quarterback that we know is really good. He's been in San Diego. La A and maybe it'll be a change of pace maybe it'll be a great situation for him. But then I started looking at all the other. Free agents at the quarterback position and Philip rivers isn't even the top three of interesting interesting free agents at the quarterback this not only in terms of intrigue drew. brees Tom Brady but just in terms of ability because he turns the ball over so much so I'd love to see Liam and Tampa to see what he can do. But we've seen him with talent as Dan says and he's still continues to underwhelmed some and in Tampa they have a guy or had a guy anyway who through a lot of interceptions and they're trying to turn the corner on that so. I don't really know how excited I am for Philip rivers because you want to say hey let him go be Brett farve out there let him just sling it all over over the place and see what happens but I feel like we kind of get a good idea of what that looks like. Every fourth quarter play doesn't tire life is. He's got a point there. It is Kinda like Philip rivers is finally becoming. I'm single but then he finds out everyone just got single at the same time. And he's like I would events great if it was just me but you guys too okay. Cool great awesome. So I don't know if he's going to make it to a team. Also he threw twenty picks this year after throwing twenty two in the last two seasons before that combined And it still feels low because I watched a lot of Philip rivers this season and they were devastating picks but I think the advanced metrics here that point to the fact that he may be about to retire or that his kins nine kids are currently aged seventeen eighteen fourteen or twelve ten nine eight six four and ten months now those are all give or take a few months because I got them from on the Internet. That is that runs the gamut of childhood so right now if he were to retire and just become a dad he could get every slice of life and just fully. Dah I just. I think it's a perfect dad experience. I almost think he planned it this way. Because why else would you have nine. Whatever good luck to you Philip in every way gives you the delay Katie? Ab Y also asking Phil Rivers has any magic left. And then when he's had nine in kids yes it's always been. Do you think Tom Brady will listen to Joe Montana telling him not to leave the Patriots unless he has to. Okay okay we like to Taunt Poor Katie with Tom Brady stories anytime that she's around. But Joe Montana's live this. He was Tom Brady before Tom Brady and he made the mistake of going to Kansas. He said he didn't feel in any way the same to him so listen to him talking to the NFL network saying look take from my experience time. You don't want to do this. It's not easy. Go to another team and get accepted. No matter how much success you've had and how many years you've played they still want to see you come in and be the same player. Tom Brady may go through that. Would you have any advice for him. If he's ends up switching teams. Don't if you don't have to I mean there's it's a process to go through and it takes time to get used to the team if they let him have his own offense there yet I that makes it a little bit easier. I just can't see how they would let him leave such a fascinating ego clash in New England between Bella checks greatness Brady's greatness and who's responsible for that greatness and Joe Montana's telling you there is. Hey Tom you're in your forties you've been in the same system for twenty years you're GonNa go somewhere else without all the emotion backing you're GONNA learn a new system new offense outside out of your comfort zone. That's a lot to handle no matter how bulletproof you believe you are so I believe Tom Brady thinks he can do it anywhere. I believe Tom Brady thinks he's the reason for the success in New England and I also believe that Joe Montana's right when when he says be careful doing that in your forties. That's an old man age when I did it and my body still hurts from Kansas City and running around out there. You're embarrassing than I used to be. The list of people who can speak to the experience Tom Brady is about to have is very short. And the name on. It is Joe Montana and this is coming from a guy who did it and it Kinda worked out for him they went to the AFC championship. It wasn't a bad devastating terrible decision. But even he is saying. It's not what you want. It doesn't feel good. You're GONNA miss the way it was also your old. It's not like Tom's going to be able to go somewhere and build another storied career. I mean yes maybe maybe the TV twelve method can lead him to the to play when he's fifty. But let's just assume that's not going to happen so you're leaving in for a couple of getting divorced when you're ninety. What are you doing? Just a heroin addict late night. He's what does it make at that point. Jerry elite come on so you guys actually believe Joe Montana's being objective and being fair here and giving good advice like you'd think he likes Tom Brady. Because you know quarterbacks quarterbacks championships they got a little Chin thing going on come on. He doesn't want Tom Brady to go win. More rings. What Joe Montana who what teams do you think he wants to see? Succeed the forty niners Jimmy Garoppolo of course secondarily the chiefs and Patrick Mahomes. He doesn't want Tom Brady to go play in Cleveland and all all of a sudden have Odell wide receiver and Wing Win Two more rings. No no no this Joe Montana's right where you are and struggle until you're forty three and then get out of them coming up next on my cell Stevie show them down by two one nineteen one seventeen. How yesterday on that? That's hard to do. Why have we never seen a guy successfully do that? Okay this is is awfully late in the show to be examining the world's greatest athlete if indeed this is the world greatest athlete highly questionable is brought to you by correspondent. HP powerful cold symptom relief for people with high blood pressure. Time to play the game that wants to wish Katie. Very happy twenty nine th birthday audemer question you give us topics and events. I thought she was twenty seven thirty three. I'm not ashamed question. We should praise deer and Fox or blame the T.. Wolves is your resident. NBA Guy. This is not something you see very often three minutes left fewer than three minutes left Minnesota last tonight was up seventeen again Sacramento. Usually the starter started coming out of the game at that point but buddy healed brought them all the way back making everything as a tribute to Kobe Bryant. And and then here's the end of the game. got them down by two one. Nineteen one seventeen yes on on man. That's hard to do. Why have we never seen a guy successfully do that before it's difficult? Look everybody in the tea. They're all do the right thing. They're trying to box out. Nobody thinks that you can get that shut off with that precision and have it come right back that quickly and let me just say this about the timber because and get close at how terrible they are. Jimmy Butler developed an entire reputation for himself about wanting to get out of there and criticizing those two guys and he looked like the bad guy leaving and talking trash although he was so right about that team. Man What is going on over there actually. I have a better one in Brazil. I watch a lot of wall. Oh aw she hadn't seen a better one on her Brazilian package Expensive worth seventy five bucks forty Portuguese. I did not know that Katy spoke Portuguese. Also please donate Brazilian package on television. This is the world greatest athlete. Okay this is awfully late in the show to be examining the world's greatest athlete if indeed visits the world's greatest aptly. Let's see what we have here is an animal. No Oh what is this. Is that hacky sack. What it's sort of a hacky sack yes? Is it going back through her arms. What also is she wearing? crocs ought to the different those are two different shoes. You've noticed there is one of them is a flip flop. The other one is amazing. Look if you think. This is the world's greatest athlete and I'm not saying that it isn't you. Guys gotTa Watch more rhythmic gymnastics because this is basically what it is. You're just doing a lot of tricks. Fancy stuff with a is it a ball. What is that? What is that has to be the next most popular alert? NBA Halftime show. Get outta here. Red Panda I need to see more of that across the basketball court. That's ridiculous all right. So that means that bowling guy remains highly questionable fashionable great athlete ever as voted on by this show. Is this guy right here. Bigger and better than Michael Jordan. Or anyone you've ever seen these guys rolling rolling the mall this amazing role here. This right here is the most amazing athlete any of US absolutely golic questionable. These broadcasts prompting clevelander hotel. The beautiful South Beach Miami time to play the game that will always have an elderly retired in the middle are no wait a minute. Did you guys get this wrong on the set. I did the things that are on television. Tonight we'll tell you when tree tree now tonight at seven thirty. Pelicans and cavs Oh he was very enthusiastic about that. Because we're we're all excited about Dianne Williamson. He's getting his minutes restrictions. Lifted and what we have here is playing some defense. He's playing defense here lefthanded ridiculous right keeping inbounds. WHO said that? It's it's not just that he blocked it out of bounds. You really don't usually see it. Go five and six rows deep Is there you intrigue. I mean this Guy's playing twenty two two minutes a game giving you sixty seven percent shooting what is it. Nineteen and eight and a couple of weeks ago. They were telling us that we're teaching them. How to walk again? Imagine Edgy when he actually can play basketball. I love him I love him. He's all in after two game Katie or you intrigue yeah. I'm going to have to check the lineup for my Brazilian package tonight. I don't know if I'm going to be able to watch this. And that is a lot going on in Brasilia. BB balls what we call it BBB. All I'm going to try to check it out GEL Russian hockey okay. He's very excitable about. Yes we're GONNA do Russian hockey in the cage. Usually when we go over here though. It's funny videos so we got a coach drawing up a play here. What happened attack took a bite out of it took a bite out of the play? I don't understand what I just saw eight of the clipboard. I don't understand what we just saw. That was a clipboard. I thought maybe it was a fake cake knives. Just eating clipboard is there. You intrigue me. Look at the look on his assistant. Assuming if assistant coaches faces this coach is ridiculous. It just reminds me of this one instagram degree on site that I follow. It's called look at this Russian and I feel like this should be like they're pinned instagram photos. Katie how about you. Are you intrigue. Of course I'm intrigued. But also what if the coaches just giving him that look because it was a terrible play that he drew up but he always racist the play. The place look delicious try. That's all the time we have for today. Thanks for watching his ears. You can catch him on the sidelines. Katie Nolan. You could see her and listen to her on sports the PODCAST. You can't see you only listen to her. I was distracted. Because she's eating the cars before that cost us a lot of money. paycheck new their new Katie. We got you a present present. That seems like it might be for you because we're wishing you happy birthday but it's a president that's actually how twenty seventh birthday thirty three. Not a shame say loud and proud ladies twenty four th birthday thank you so much. Are you Vegan. Four weeks ago as if his ads weren't already sexy enough. I'm sorry wow criticism because criticism because two of the candles were not ones that light back up again if property were here that.

Kobe Bryant Tom Brady Katie Nolan Gordon Hayward basketball NBA Joe Montana Philip rivers Dan LA San Diego Philip rivers ESPN Clippers Brian Lee Lebron James Gutierrez