20 Episode results for "Golf Magazine"

Relaunching GOLF Magazine

GOLF.com Podcast

24:53 min | 1 year ago

Relaunching GOLF Magazine

"Hello. And welcome to another episode of the Gulf dot com podcast. I'm your host, Sean. Zach today's episode is can be bit insider it's a bit. Honestly about patting ourselves on the back, but more than anything. It's the best way on this platform to let you know, the best stuff that's coming your way from our brand plainly put we are relaunching Gulf magazi-. It's this thing that's been in the process for a long time. And yeah, it's a cliche. But this thing is bigger and better than it has ever been and it is turning sixty this year. So it's a great time to do. So it required millions of dollars in investment and absolute see it in the product in honestly beyond that required that much in more in just time investment, man hours. Two of those men are here in studio today, we've got David did Nunzio editor in chief and David Korito. He's a creative director, David, David. They're both here to discuss the process of recreating one of the standards in Gulf media. The ins and outs of figuring out what gophers want what the. Will read what they'll get out of it all, and how to pack this really expansive game into the pages of a monthly magazine. Seriously. If you go and get the magazine, you're gonna see Dustin Johnson on the cover. There is a gigantic instructional feature written by Dylan to chair that incorporates DJ's driving tips. John roms eirne play and Jason day on putting he's the best putter in the world. I think we kind of nailed that one there other stories there's Ellen ship knock diving deep into the murder of a collegiate gopher last summer. We've got a story about a guy who really deserves to play Gusta national, but has not we've got Josh sense going to Vietnam to play golf. It's all really good stuff. That's just the feature. Well, so enough of me, let's get to them. David and David it's the beginning of January. It's January fourteenth. Right. And this whole process starts a lot earlier than January fourteenth. When and where does the process begin? Oh god. We started was October early October. We had been with the Gulf had moved from timing to our new owner emigrant Bank that deal closed on February early February of two thousand eighteen by may we had moved from our former downtown offices to six east forty third here on the near Grand Central and with few months of us kind of taking taking up shop. Here. We got the mandate from on new owner Howard Milstein mister Milstein emigrant owned several golf brands Nicklaus design TRU spec golf Mira Gulf logic. These are kind of high end premium brands, and even though golf magazine and golf dot gov magazine in particular winning entry sixty th year over the last five it hadn't really been invested in their cared for much by its former owner and one. One from get go. I think Howard saw this as an opportunity to reinvest in the Gulf brand and bring it up to the standards of his other Gulf properties. And that's about October time when we were told get to it and job one in that process was looking for design team that could carry out kind of the newest static of the new golf magazine. And that's what brought us to David Kirk in the back of the village voice. Exactly we answered a Craigslist ad. David had David hasn't been working in a while designer and cook available. I think people that are going to listen to this. We're going to be interested in knowing like why was it necessary? You said that there may not have been as great of investment over the past five years in prior ownership like even from visual aspect. Why was this necessary? I can say being in this business for a long time that. The way the magazine business has been going had been going that companies be companies were looking for ways to save money. And unfortunately, first place, they would start was was with paper second was with scaling-down important design people who actually kind of know what they're doing. Maybe look pretty they make pretty and that's been a trend for the last five or more years. I was pushed out of Hearst somewhat. Just because I mean, I kind of act left, but you may that much money. I make too much money. That's about. Yeah. Thank you. I was stumbling there, but I may I was making too much money. And they kind of got rid of they kind of got rid of the high paid creative directors where were you working though, I was a Esquire magazine for twelve years and before that I was at a magazine. Called complex launched that before that I was with the source magazine, which was a hip hop magazine, America express and the publishing list goes on. So my whole career is has been this. And there's been a steady decline in not wanting to pay top dollar for creative and the product suffers immediately. The first thing you notice versus paper, they cut the the Cup the paper budget, and then they start to cut the create and golf was just a symptom of that. It's been very cool that somebody Howard somebody like Howard has wanted to invest time and money into into this product. It's kind of rarin wonderful. Yeah. Even during the darker days near the end of our time at time Inc. The reporting was still there the storytelling was there. The we've always had great contributors in the top. When teacher top one hundred teachers in America and various reports across the country. It had just kind of lost its luster little bit. We would get comments from this. Great stuff. You know, Love's still love golf magazine. But then you had hold up to a certain light a page and you'd see through it. It was just that was how that was David mentioned the the the money immediately ran away from the paper. But Howard sees a something else. Like, we all do the game, we golf as beautiful we see golf as colorful. It's a joy to play. And it's joy to be a golfer. And really that was kind of what we had in mind when trying to reimagined this sixty year old title was put the joy back into put the color back into it. And thankfully, our owner was able to see the path toward reinvesting in paper number one in reinvesting in quality design, which David and his team certainly have brought to the table. What was the question? Yeah. Forever. Got the original question. I think we can move onto the next one. The question was why was it? We answered it answered it for sure the magazine is the product is going to be different. And it's in many ways bigger for one. It's pretty blatant. You see it on the newsstands bigger. Looks completely different. At some point. You had realized what the building blocks of it were. And I just want you to list off the building blocks. And how you figured when you're starting this out like which building blocks of it are most necessary. Well, having the initial conversation with our is really important of few conversations what he wanted with designer's dream. He wanted something that resembled a coffee table book, something that was collectible for me is a creative director that is like those are the magic words. So immediately we discussed. David, and I discussed enlarging the size of the of the page to make it feel more unique than any other print publication out there just to increase the size of it and clean it up. Yeah. I mean, we could have done it several different ways, you know, Lucks. I think is a good word of the scribe is beautiful. But at some point it can't get so luxuriance that it loses. Why it's here in the first place, and you know, as reader of Gulf magazine since I was twelve years old and an employee of the title for twelve years. It has a purpose. It's purpose is to help people better. Enjoy golfing experience whether it's a playing better or going on Gulf trip or buying new year. Those are the pillars of golf magazine. It's pure service journalism. So even though we were going to make upscale feature, but if a talker Affi more elegant design, we never going to get away from our service routes. Service. So it is a challenge because it's a manual in that regards manual, what happened is just happens to be very very good-looking manual. Now. Lux just means a few things to me means whiter page of more breathing room, less cram, better photography, and the challenge that I was mentioning before was incorporating all of those important factors, although this wonderful editorial elements into the page and actually create room for more surprises. Correct. So it's a it's a really interesting balance. Yeah. I think if you been receiving the magazine or buying the magazine for any amount of time in familiar with it. And when you hold this February issue in your hands, and you through it, hopefully, read it, he hope. Yeah. Couple things are obvious wanted. It is bigger, you know, roughly, an inch bigger on both sides. The paper is heavier. It is the pitcher. We have Dustin. Johnson on the cover features just his name. It's very atmospheric kind of invigorating shot inspirational shot of dust and not something in your face. You know, how to drive the ball fifty yards longer which was a service blurb that we probably use more than once in our history. You e- you will find more in this. It's in a weird way. It is more luxurious elegant. But there's a ton more information in this book than ever featured in sleight. I mean, we took a stick a dynamite place to under every page, and as we built things maybe it's just because of we had more demean bigger room to work with butter margins that we felt like we could create more departments writers, but more layers. It's still it's still looks very clean and clean. Nice. I love the analogy of sticking dynamite under it and blowing up every page. But that is inherently tricky, right? Mike in order to take what I believe are like really good columnist Allan shipped. Mike Obama guys that do their job really, really. Well, Mark Brody throw him in there in order to stick dynamite under them, and like blow them up and then put them back together with all the other feature wells and other pillars of the magazine. Like, what parts of that are I guess are you most proud of that have come out of the new Meg? Well, you mentioned Michael Bamberger Allen ship duck. They're probably most happy they got more room for their monthly college. We saw that we were going to improve the magazine we would give our best voices proper space part of that is features. And there are some really really incredible features in this first issue. And I mean that's the goal. Every single issue right is to have that type of hard hitting features that people will sit down for as if it's a coffee table book. One of those is ship story on the Iowa State, the slain Iowa State golfer, and that's that is a tricky story to assign for the first though, the relaunch of your magazine. It's incredible. It's well done. It's over five thousand words, can you explain a little bit of why store needed to be in this magazine? And it was tricky all along we saw the reimagined nation of the book as a celebration of the game. Now does. The tragic murder of collegiate golfer fit that mold probably not and we debated whether or not this the story belonged in this issue at all. But we have to be the book that does stories nobody else can whether they're afraid to or they don't have the resource of an Allen ship knock who was MU by himself was able to see me talk to everyone who had a stake in this tragic story from the parents of Cecilia herself. Her teammates and coaches, Iowa State local law enforcement, it was to depressive piece of reporting in our celebration issue or no inaugural issue. We saw this a platform to celebrate someone who should still be with us today. How do we how do we still retain the the spirit and a love this game? And. And make it interesting for other people outside of golf to read it as well. Because the story is compelling. We have some really amazing stories coming up in next shoe as well that that really touch anybody. These amazing struggles. I don't know. I think if it perfectly within the issue it makes creates a perfect balance. Yeah. It is perfect in a word in my opinion. And I think that I think the article it self is worthy of awards like in both the Senate like I don't wanna read the article online. I wanna read it in a magazine because the imagery is so dominant era Goggin is photographer that I've been working with over the years, and let's Horton to magazine. It's exactly why you buy it's important to any story to be quite honest. It doesn't matter. That it's imprint no matter where it lives. It's it's finding the right setting the right tone visually because people look at the photos. I before they look at anything the photos in the topography, you're gonna pull you into the story to read to read it. So it's very something that sensitive is this you have to dig deep you have to you can't be offensive. You have to be sensitive to the family. You have to be sensitive to the reader. It's it's a real it's a real big balance. And. You know, we open the story with some haunting images of the place of her murder. That's a full page. It's full-pitch shows the path yet chose a path and pulls you in. It's a compelling shot at synchronic, and it's sad. And it's an it's an it. It leads you into the story perfectly. Eric did an amazing job. It's a kind of for Taga feat that David expressively wanted in the magazine and Howard it just works for the type of that toil mission that they're going to see through here. I think the product in general this could seem like an advertisement for golf magazine. Right because we're talking about and we put it together. But it's worthy of podcast because is going to change a lot of people's minds about what they're getting from us it in their mailbox or on the news stand. I think it's a combination of the best aspects of some really, great magazines, and I knew this. But there's a lot of Esquire in what I see in it. Good. I was. Yeah. Esquire with a number of other. Great people. We were and I get the same feeling from this magazine that I had at Esquire the same commod in the same goal to do great work. And that's what sites me about being a part of this that I'm able to do me in me was Esquire. So and me golf Moseley. Now, you know what I mean? So it's just funny. The way things have worked out I was felt have ever had the opportunity to do an overhaul of this magazine that I would make it look like the great, Esquire magazines. I enjoyed in the early two thousands and. No idea who was responsible for them until we were David and I were paired together. So. Yeah. It was really by chance. I mean, they actually offered the job to somebody else. They wanted somebody else. And he wasn't available in this friend of mine, and he called me one day. And he said, hey, you you interested in golf. I love golf any any said. Well, I was like what's up, and he's like, I don't really want it because golf number one and magazine's number two, and I was like, well, it's right up. My alley and. I worked really hard on getting this job. And I really I really wanted it because it it just really excited me. I, you know, as I've told as I've told other people, you know, we my wife, and I own our own business, and we've been working on a bunch of projects that have been fruitful, but soulless, and I don't like that feeling. I wanna dig into something really really make make something cool and work with great people who have a common goal to make great stories and great pictures. Kirk does enthusiasm was palpable in the first meeting, and obviously I was excited. And EV I think everyone on the floor got the bug even many of the people who you can argue that majority of their time is dedicated to our social channels or the website, everyone everyone one of the play a part in the relaunch of the print product. It was. A lot of fun to do. We were still doing the previous iteration of the magazine. So this whole process was kind of like changing the tires on the car while it's already moving. But it was I just felt like we count it down like we're gonna we're gonna ship. This thing in a month or get these issues in next week. It's going to press, and it was great to finally hold it in her hands. And you know, unfortunately, gotta do fly by the CD your pants. That's best way. Were that's created. Yes. I'm most creative when I'm terrified so. Yeah. Same here. The reason I brought up esquires because I think I think you can see Esquire in the pages. But I think you also see like a Sports Illustrated Gary Smith story in ship story. And I think you see some maybe the service level elements that I think G Q does really well in in this magazine. So I think it's many aspects of a lot of great magazines into one. I think over time when you spend enough time in magazines, you tend to know what you like over in just things Rasmo Moses enter the so those are all the titles. You mentioned I think very fine magazines, and maybe fill us most is just always had. The vision of what will that look like if it was if it dealt with Gulf and not like fashion or well, the bars or what really excites me about this is actually moving forward. Because now now that we've just redesigned it, it's not going to remain the same. I mean, we have we have we have the basic elements for for what we need to do. But it it's going to mature and develop in change as as the issues go on as as we discover new things about the magazine itself. And what the what the what the overall flavor is. And you know, I it's just it's always it's always a work in progress. That's why I've always felt over in. My career is always chasing something I'm always chasing something to to become better. Last question. You probably have you. Both have good experience in launching and relaunching magazines titles. What's more difficult, or how's it different relaunching something that's been sixty years old or launching it when you kind of have complete say over everything, and I mean from your perspective, you're coming into something. That's sixty years old. There has to be a little bit of like last title, wiz eighty five sold. So it's it's daunting. But you know, you look at what's been done in the past. But you don't dwell on it. Okay. And you never looked back. Always look forward. Learn from the past and don't repeat the past create create something you new and unique without mine. Like was there a particular aspect of the process that was the trickiest like to say goodbye to or the trickiest to change like was there an element that you're like, I don't know if we can get let go of that. I didn't feel that way. I I understand what you're saying was one harder than the others. No. I think the it was the the prospect of what we could achieve what the magazine that was exciting to the point where I didn't care can that we that. We could save anything that makes talking about specifically. What would you? What would you think? I think it just I saw Proctor was good. And I think you made something that's great. And I just feel like there are some very obvious differences. And there's a lot of like a lot of things that have stayed the same yet have been reimagined. And I feel like that whole like changing every little those bits. There had to be a powers like I really liked how it was or for someone who's worked here for twelve years. Yeah. I think maybe if you had peg something as the biggest risk coming from holding the. Title Russian of area for instruction editor for a decade was moving the instruction from the front of the book. It's additional home to the back, and then moving gear which was always kind of buried in the back of the book to the fore. I that I was scared to work. Actually, I was scared to work on the now the lesson section which is now yet previously instruction, right? Yeah. I was terrified to work on that. Because of him and terrified of me. I was terrified. Well, you know, 'cause I'm not, you know, I'm not my atmos- shitty. Handicap, and I am not worthy of working on the lesson section. You know, it's it's just, but it's it's a learning process that may sound stupid the most people's like you were worried about moving instruction section of the back. You know, what's wrong with you? Who cares? I mean, you do care after awhile instruction is very important. Into this title. It's part of the service journalism package that makes this thing. What is why it's popular there? Only two large Gulf publications left on planet earth, really us in golf digest. And it's because we remain true service routes by which felt if the people who wanted the instruction gonna find brake are listed where you put it. It's actually a better package honest. It's it's really easily accessible in the magazine. You know, just because it's in the back. It's very comprehensive. It's all it's got a very cohesive, look, and it's there's a little hot of it. That's you could just paid take data page through the lesson. Nineteen pages of drugs. Yeah. That's been considering section. Give credit where credit is due. My think with with the the lesson section a help that is that we had kind of new beyond staff to help vision that the new head of instruction here at and golf dot com. Luke, kurt. Gene. If you spent any time in our social and our social channels on our website, you see that Luke over the past six weeks or so that he's been with us. Egypt hit the ground running. He's posting every day. He's digging deep with our swing. I AP analyzing pro swings. Looking for kind of clever takes on -struction, and he just killed it in the book accent? He's got a funny. British accent charming people people on the podcast who often listen to us. They get Luke through there. You're buds. And I know it's always a treat for them. Look if you're listening. You did a great job with the section and he's getting married getting married. We leave it at that. Thank you gentlemen, for both joining me here and also for for creating a great magazine, we got more coming right early. February the new golf dot com about his fantastic looking as the the issue that we hope you'll enjoy come next week on stand. This. Obviously just the start big things coming from our brand here Gulf magazine, Gulf dot com. Thanks to both those guys for joining. And. Yeah, do them a favour go in by that magazine. It's good. It's really good. Subscribe. You'll enjoy it guarantee it until next time. I'm your host, Sean sock.

this magazine golf golf magazine David Gulf Esquire magazine Howard Milstein Gulf magazine murder Esquire monthly magazine new golf magazine David Kirk Dustin Johnson source magazine Sean sock director America time Inc emigrant Bank
NLU Podcast, Episode 264: Playing the Top 100 Courses in the World w/ Simon Holt

No Laying Up

1:03:25 hr | 10 months ago

NLU Podcast, Episode 264: Playing the Top 100 Courses in the World w/ Simon Holt

"Beater right club today. Yeah that's better than most about it is better than most thaddeus ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the no laying up podcast different episode for you. Today we're going to get to a conversation with Simon Holt here and a little bit. Simon is one of the few people in the world world who has played all one hundred courses on golf believe he goes off the golf magazine. Top One hundred list his list that he follows the twenty thirteen list. I figured with the recent publication of the new top one hundred list golf magazine list. It would be interesting to talk with. Someone who is on that panel understands how the rankings things work in has played every single golf course not on the current list but on the twenty thirteen when we talk about some of those differences between the list. Let's change from year over a year and He's a bout as unpretentious of a guy that I can imagine that you can find to speak on this topic. Plus he's got a Scottish accent so it's GonNa be you guys are GonNa love it. He's awesome dude. We're going to be catching up with him here. In April hopefully in Scotland and he has some great insights on playing golf around the world how he's managed inch to get on these golf courses and some top experiences also some of the parts that are less glamorous about it. I found it really interesting when I talked to him a few months ago. About doing this about some of the TRIPS HE I was getting ready to take the be wasn't looking forward to just because of all the logistics and the hard to reach places for some of the golf courses before we launch it real quick. I want to tell you guys about Cueyer by Travis. Matthew that's C. U. A. T. E. R. is a new premium performance brand focused on creating versatile comfortable footwear accessories threes. They sent us some of their let. It's called the legend their new Gulf shoe and it is so clean crispy white. It's nothing to nuts. Not Too fancy like they. They noticed that a lot of performance golf shoes on the market. They tend to be over designed with exaggerated technology and they set out to combat that trend towards the unnecessary complication Asian. They're incredibly comfortable. They look like old school. Like I had the white ones the white Kind of old old choose just minus the big tongue that used to see the old shoes and I looked at. That doesn't look very comfortable. And I wore them and they are perfectly comfortable and they're pretty much. They are my leading shoe. That I'm wearing on the golf course right now. They also also have an off course shoe which is called the daily. It's kind of like A. I don't know what to describe the material kind of like a cloth based wool. Well Wolf. That's the word I'm looking for a new a new. There's word for that very casual very comfortable and it goes with any outfits and dust of other offering fifteen percent off if your first purchases for first time customers at quaker DOT COM. That's C. U. A. T. E. R. Against fifteen percent off your first quarter purchase when you visit Cueto Cueto Dot quaker dot com. So please do check that out. Quarter is by Travis Matthew wearing some of their shoes for awhile and we're pumped with the ones that are coming out and without any further delay. Here let's let's get to Simon hold on playing the top one hundred golf courses in the world all right man. I got a task for you. That I believe is probably harder than playing laying the top one hundred golf courses in the world. It's you gotTa talk to me about it for. I don't know how long it's GonNa take but you gotta come off and not sound like a complete douchebag. I don't know if you're GONNA be it capable of doing that. Mr Simon hold. I know it's a daily challenge in every walk of life for me now. I know you're so of asking. That said we say is quite hard. Sometimes it's like it's essentially is does end up being the name dropping exercise of all the courses that everyone speaks leaks is always dreamt of playing in me too. Yeah it's strange but it's cool and finished this year and that was kind senator relief in one way. I wasn't really chasing out to start with US show. We'll come to you but Is it was a great experience on certainly fun along the way. Well that's yeah. Let's let's go into that. I guess you know in talking to you and leading leading up to you wrapping it up I was. I was surprised. And maybe I shouldn't have been at at your apathy apathy not the right word but lack of real enthusiasm to finish it out. I would have thought you would have been really excited to do it you. It almost seemed like at the end. It was a checking the box kind of thing for for you so I want to. Let's get into that. When did you set out to do it or did you get pretty far into list and say oh? I'm actually on my way here. How did you? How did you set out to do this? Yes I mean people ask. When did you start doing it? And I was lucky as you know Grew up in north barracks up this wonderful golf course this justin been rated. I think he's up to thirty seven as of yesterday in the Gulf magazine rankings. So I was really lucky to grow up. Please let notes back first and foremost so the first. That was the first Gulf coast place so if people say how long has really from the first day of play golf insurance you know. That was way of twenty five years but really and Ernest started about three years ago. Well till the point I finished so maybe full twenty sixteen. I really focused on right okay. A few people were kind of bates invited to and I was just. I'm just going to get this done on a sort of mapped out to me about two and a half years from that point to get the remaining five at that point and it took me at turnoff years together remain in sixty five finished one hundred cheese. That's a lot. That's hundreds in a in a three year stretch. What how can you? The question is going to be burning on everyone's minds. To how the hell do you get access to play all these courses. Well I always joke. Thank you make a guy in the locker room of the place before so. That doesn't really help listening but it's just such a small small circling Gulf. As you know you can golf eye on anyone that works in Gulf War will say it's a small circa the same clubs especially like the US the US Gulf seen will tell us what you do within the golf industry as well. I think that will help bring it together. Well one of my friends like we run a Gulf to a company so the predominantly Americans travel nice five set of our clients American where basis in juice Edinburgh so we have enough volume sat right now and And yet we like to say we do really good job of bringing people to Scotland and islands and England on occasion where they asked which I'll speak about later. It's the most under marketed Gulf destination. The Nation as far as I'm concerned in each and then hit a little bit We do a little bit of Australia and New Zealand in the winter. Obviously scenes jeans seasonally. That works really well for us. But all the golf courses that we get people to A public golf courses which is Great. You know most of the closest on the list you can go and play especially the ones that you an Ireland's and Australia New Zealand's the. US is a little more tricky. So I was possibly lucky at grownup. caddying Northberg Bankin and the University Andres just kind of Nice people great people that were very kindly said when you're in the states if you're ever in summer Cisco Coming Yep so eventually I just started taking people up and all those very invites and Just kind of snowballed and I think the in from Scotland living here in Scotland in growing up here and you know my good days not being to golf than people you saw stood out in a little bit so I'll say I don't know and this is where the name dropping starts here. We go. I know so. Maybe you're at seminal and you sat there Eh and you chatted with some people and your accent stance and young relative to the rest of the crowd and the hey what you doing here. Someone maybe tells you the story and this. Yeah well I've got buddy that's a member you know next time you remember coq just let me up. And he'll help there and people would just always almost like really willing to to help and I never asked and kind of set off a couple of rules on that as well Are you the I if I remember at your the are you the first British person. Listen to play the top one hundred courses in the world that blew me away so I think as of today I think about forty eight people ever finished Gulf magazine. Meanwhile top one hundred list and the reason that she's that list is because that's the oldest will talk one hundred lists. I think golf digest started the lesson kind of sixties on these two hundred toughest courses in America and believe it or not causes like a look at Shinnecock didn't even appear on that list. Can you imagine uh-huh exactly. So then you fast forward and these kind of became more professional of a better word more refines as time on engulfed took of the mantle of the first World Cup. One hundred rankings. Not that every two years. So e seven four eight people have done it. I was a full fist. Believe but the first person from the U K which really surprised me but then when you think about it it's so biased towards what's America in American publication. I don't mean that's wrong but there's something I I guess you know maybe foresee five fifty courses there in America So for someone to live in Scotland or the U. K.. That's a loft trips to America to go and play off and a lot of like you said at the top of the the only real real private ones other than maybe one or two in Scotland and then. Maybe one that I can think of in Australia like the. US is the only place that has places like you need an invite to. You know the arrested like you said you. Can you can pretty much call up. And that's what I think I've played more of the top one hundred courses outside of America. I have inside just because it's just so much easier to get access to. Yeah it's probably it's kind of a fun. Exercise for people like Castillo must have played a lie. And that's like going back to the compensation of our started someone said to me and They actually asked me to be a Gulf magazine. Ready to have our six seven eight years ago because I just work in the industry a seal golf courses and played a love the seriously usually like big names and they so as long as you played fifty you can be rated so I counted on. Maybe it was like more of I had a really high concentration intrusion of top twenty five and it only thirty five when I say only that surprise me and that kind of quest because it said well okay. I don't want to be a Rato eight to politely declined and I WANNA finish all talk one hundred without in Orissa and by know cocoa's like Ole invitations all the people I knew which kind of made harder but it felt like a natural way to do so by being passed. People hopefully enjoy playing golf Indian in recommended friends because any plan with great people time was going to say it is fun as it seems. I guess you setting out to do it again. You kinda group this background and it had had access and played a lot of great golf courses before you set out to do it but what. What was the journey like? Was it more fun than you're anticipating less fun more stressful. Well like what is what. How do you look back on that time? I see it as a hugely fun. Exercise at exit wasn't even going to play golf. Courses always dreamt what's hard about. It did get so point. And you sort of alluded to like checking boxes and some places. I'll be honest. It did feel like that. And that's the point where I hunt the brakes little I was like what am I doing you know. I remember being accused or islands and and I was on my own on this obviously result. Coast busy most the budget fobel's and how there's really pleasant gentlemen is a caddy great guy and we played for a holes at taken in an hour and ten minutes full holes. I was ready to pull the hair and teeth out. I just want to walk up the course I was so bored and I just thought warmer junior gulfs about like a shed experience and also the fact that just posted up the best part probably five hundred dollars to play. I was like what are you doing here. And then he saw picks up on that and he goes. Hey will you. You know this is great company with you but it's just slow and he says well you know we kind of run the show here and I'm so the second most senior academy do you WanNa stop playing three groups. Because I'll just say to the counties would just play. I love that. We played the rest of the Gulf coast in one astles e five minutes so we played the whole round three hours having taken our debt for the first four. So don't get me on the pace of play these Gulf coast. I was just. I don't know that point. I think it was checking boxes and kind of with a list that I have no. I'm not shy about saying courses art but no interest in playing and that sort of direction me wish list to choose ended the Gulf maxine. Twenty thirteen I really had no interesting. Go to Thailand to play the coast in Thailand. And that's really in fact visit the chorus book enough people that played the course in Thailand. That was on the list. I dowling excite pronounce it. I'm sure it's lovely. I'm sure the people that are lovely but the pitches that scene and the people that played there it said to me possibly shouldn't be the list and had been so a couple of other places that let you down to like tavist genes in Portugal. Hope again treated me like golds played with a lovely man but I was scratching added to why it was in the World Cup one hundred so this new listeners just come out is refreshing because it seems to be a little bit more of a crowd pleaser list in a good way but yeah it was great fun touch on a lot of things I do want to talk about. I don't want to necessarily we start with the negative but the lists itself are very complicated. Well an easy one here with the new list that just came out. Do you fear a newest coming out and ECORSE being on there that you haven't played knock is not really like that. I'm generally not whatever me saying this. I am not really box checker. Sure I I did this because to take it back. A little growth in a great place playing golf went to sit and east coast a lot being a student there and off fell in love with like well. What makes it great golf course and then spent a little time work in other nations Quebec great years work at the Nations Cup in Scotland which I jumped in Gulf thank helping them with their membership side and got through that just a little because he was doing some new holes there down by Walter? Scott's atropine open those this year talking with Tom Kite goalby and Eric von just really go into and then Gulf atlas and started so geeking out that and and that's what got me into architecture whereas it good place to start and tell was good enough. We played it together which he loves. He was good enough to mention a few places. I The confidential guy that he's famously written so gourmet choice causes you have to go and see and this is what I really like about the list because that would take me to location Asian and invariably go to play course but then I play one or two courses round as well and if it wasn't for the list of maybe not go to that location. So Oh you know what I mean so if you guys in the US once upon a time your fields any slow the appeared on the list for the first time probably in the eighteenth. I'm guessing Muirfield appears wellstone. Wellstone hundred American clients read that and go. Hey I want to go and play Muirfield. And when they're at Muirfield the local states that hey you go go and play down the street so then we stopped playing North Derek and fast forward fifteen years than north parents dust again so over time the list get better and better and better on. I feel this one is at a point now is a really pure a-list will what goes into making a list or you know these. Every publications got the different criteria Korea and stuff. But it's not it's not a bunch of people sitting around a room saying oh pebble. Beach moves up this year. And so there's a scoring system with what. What is it like for Golf magazine? And what. How would you evaluate that process? Would you say it's it's strong. How would you tweak it if it's different how does your personal ranking differ from that as well? Well now I feel. I like privileged to be on the radio panel in this seventy five and And we were given free rein and there was no group. Think in the way you know you have to assess shot values. I mean excuse my French but while the after the shock value leaving I get confused by that chatter. It's when you'RE A- goal. I think they go spread if people can read a few names published. You know these names got Tom Doak fern. Casey junior that owns Russell pattern on the source of Mike Davis. You'll say that name Ben conjure up the cab kyw goalby Gil Hanse Jimmer Beena. You know he doesn't really really intelligent people in golf and then me but people just let to go and say well this is what things good and then you rat you rated it so if you want through three. Didn't have to put you exact. This this is my one this is my this is my three but you rate your top. Three four to ten and eleven to twenty five twenty six fifty fifty to seventy five seventy seventy six to one hundred and then with that we have brackets of fifty from one hundred to one fifty two hundred two hundred two fifty and so on. If you're in the top three then you got one hundred points if you're a ten year five points. Eleven to twenty five seventy five points so ran who collected all the results. Everyone's ballot papers together talking points and that's what creates the rating so when you look at rating and it usually has like a an average school. That's where the average score comes from Pine Valley for example ninety four point five two and I think think something crazy like fifty seven percent which is understandable of voters put Pine Valley in the top three so almost impossible to knock right now. The top spot psychosis second and so we'll have. Yes let's see. How did how does your list compare to what you know? Came came out with golf with Golf. Magazine's reigning what. What are your top three? Do you remember what you put in those top three. I would imagine you do absolutely I mean I thought three where MIA fields At Rome album west and Terry T. and some of those are obvious some of them are pretty punchy. Show so Terry TV and certain you. But I just audie really really honest and it comes down to which close you really enjoy. And it's all subjective personal choice I've been lucky enough to Qatar. Et probably that separate round. So feel like I can solve standby that filled up played a lot of it and I think You know the the routing of the Gulf coast amazing and variations gray and roll. Melvin the same way I just love the route to the Gulf course I love how simple in design but you have to take on the troubled today able to score well and so those are the courses I like this they make you think a little and this would the part of the discussion that that bothers me is like you know Recently match Annella ship Nikolic went to Australia and New Zealand. They made their personal list which like looked a lot different than what our personal lists look like at. Everyone's like all these guys got it all wrong. It's like no man like everyone's got a personal list you don't have to follow what the order is on the rankings. Listen I feel like I at times. I can almost affect your impression of a highly rated golf courses like I'm the I know I'm supposed to like this. I'm supposed to like it. This is going to be amazing. And if you don't play great if you get bad weather and it just doesn't hit you the same way you end up thinking wow that was overrated versus like if you knew nothing about Shinnecock hills in Rhode up there and played it you would be amazed by it so with that kind of spectrum in mind. Is there any courses. You played that are highly rated on the list. You kind of walked away being like I really really don't see what they're talking about. Here yeah definitely and the someplace well. Some of the ones that I mentioned earlier there are now not on the list. Clearly Sunday was going on before. I don't want to speculate what you listeners could use their imagination as to what was going on there other places. I've been two. I'm clearly wrong because everyone else thinks it did. I Love Riviera and by saying that right now ever going to be a lot back. Nope the wrong you're wrong. I don't know that a lover Vieira. I'm not saying it's not world I mean we're talking about the best course in the Wilshire and for me it's just there's a dispatch dispatched there in the middle. I think I think four three hundred eleven I love it was the and I really like. Does it patch. I don't really love the star Rivera. one-two-three don't really love and then there's patchy still feel like you're playing around the driving range. I don't love that section. But that's it's not to say anything just Intel one hundred wells it just for me. It's not in the top thirty but that's just my personal preference. which I think is probably different than like this course does does not belong in this in this realm right definitely I mean I think Jodi about how this phrase top five people say favorite Colo.? I've got five five in the thirteen courses in my top five so you could. There could be five hundred. Well there's literally four hundred thirty causes in the conversation. We'll tell one hundred that we vote on and there's probably even more than that but at least the people who are voting for it in this instance of people have seen enough of the very top quality Takano Kana know what they're talking about and certainly the Gulf coast designers that no a hell of a lot more than me that I've just been lucky enough to visit these places you know. They've studied made careers. That should really listen to. What if you're if I was asked you what's a course you've played that's not on? The list has not appeared on the list that you think is like mind blowing that is is not on any of these. What was the first course that comes to mind in the top one hundred I used I would say I think peachtree used to be on his back? How can I thought peachtree was so good? I think item on saying vote to that I think in muscles fifty one to seventy five block. I though peace choose fantastic and end the routing the golf course. Everyone always says Bobby Jones wanted to take a master's so they they built that place thinking. Okay we're GONNA move away from Augusta Gusta if you can get your head around that and have it there at Atlantic because he didn't think it would be talked Gusta so therefore he has made a brilliant golf of course is not pleasant. It was going to be great but is great. I love Yemen's hall that's been named in kind of the next best fifty I think. He even sews fantastic former alert. People that disagree with me on that I think is fantastic. I mean if Chicago Golf clubs ranked so highly I the whole like Chicago. Golf Club at a national golf links of the south. I don't know why gal them love than it does. If we're looking yeah okay. So that's that's one that's maybe the should be bumped up into the top one hundred but anything else on on there. That's like fiftieth. You're like no no no. This is a top ten course in the world might be your example. There will no Yemen's even Davison in the next fifty but thinking about the ones I think should be much higher. I think this time it's about right. Okay I I really. Did you think it's about right. A couple of courses of jumped down a little. I think I love seminal had a brilliant day there that's always one that's towards about whispered because those people are scattered offending might write all too high and now is about thirty four thirty five and I'm very comfortable. I'm not sure that comfortable with it. Being just outside the top twenty. That's the that's the feedback. I feel like I. I've never been to seminole but that's what I kinda here it's like it's good. It's just it's not like it's not maybe in the deserted company of the the top twenty course whatnot but we're really nit-picky here but explain to me. I think I kind of understand why where I think you might go with with this. But Augusta National's ranked ninth on the list and for a lot of people that's the number one course in the world. They'd like to play a lot of that may have to do with how hard it is to get an invite there but can you explain why it's Nice. It's a spot behind oakmont. which is I would? I'd never been oakmont either but I I how it how. It fell four spots in the last year and I know there's a refreshed how the ratings were done. And we'll get into some of that but can you explain why Augusta would be nine th and then we can talk about your experience there. Yeah well again just like to reiterate like the difference between nine. And what was it before I is not that big like where we are absolutely talking about the very very best Gulf coast on the planet and it just happens that the people that voted this time because they don't know everyone else's ferreted we didn't even know each other's names until this thing came out just happens to have dropped down. I have my theory on not that you know. The Gulf was gun. More to wets than firm and fast and Augusta. which in my mind is the number one experience and golf? If you're lucky enough to go that I think you'd be country to you'd be trying to be country. He says not as a golf course. I would probably say I think that maybe maybe it send the ten to twenty brackish me. Is that because because you know when people see this golf course every April it is indeed most pristine condition possible but from what I've gathered from people that have played it. You know not during Masters Week and I would think Monday after the masters will be the best possible to win the media lottery. Be The best possible way to do it. But when you play it in this time of year in November or you know in the winter the Greens aren't that speed. It's not in tournament condition year round and you play from the member tease which are sixty four hundred yards in. It's not nearly the same. I was GONNA GONNA say shock value. But she made fun of that phrase but is that kind of the the your takeaway from the Augusta experience. Well I would say absolutely played for the celebrities because I know you hit the ball players so you can play from the back of your while. I'm never going back there. Well there's there's no in between right there's no sixty eight eight hundred yard option. There's no seven thousand yard option. It's sixty four or seventy five. I think I'm not sure if that really plays into because the people that are going. I know what you're saying on nice to have something that may bridge the gap was like a sixty nine hundred. I would love that too but you just you just happy that truth be told I just feel that a few of the hulls so wonderful golf course but a few of the holes. They've planted trees tightened up in places and has because they have this incredible gulfs on it every year. I well my experience. I've been very lucky to to go there twice. And the places in incredible condition like forget the the father's outside of the tournament. I'm not Green as fast. Sure that members of lights in the I don't know that I've not played lasts. But they they were really really really quick and the Gulf Coast Susan impeccable condition and I played at the In January end of January one year and then start may want yeah which is probably a good reflection reference because I was just a just a few weeks after the master's and it was an equally good condition. I guess again we're we're we're on a very fine edges with a lot of the things we're talking about here. What I was referring to some players I've talked to that? Go Up and play it in December or play at a week before the tournament. Let's say you know what I've kind of learned there's no point to that because it's a completely different golf course the next week so I didn't really I guess I still don't fully understand the difference between tournament playing condition and Non Tournament. I'm applying conditioning Augusta. But I have a feeling that people opened up that list and say what the Hell and that's where you know I don't take. Nobody should take the ratings that seriously initially but I think it's a good reflection if a list is showing a lot of volatility year to year because I think you can look at it the wrong way and say well. What the hell did Augusta do to deserve? Falling going four spots when I would counter that by saying hey maybe like a fresh set of eyes on these things in different people which sounds like what was the case is a good thing and just sticking to what has always been highly highly rated that people might not have got it right when the first time these lists came out. So it's it's it's okay to see some volatility in it if that's you know if there's is a different way that it has been evaluated. Do you see that similarly well. Yeah I'm I'm always a glass half full guy instead of people see it as like. Oh isn't it's adult sponsor. No you know saying. Let's look a different way. oakmont role Melvin role. County data on national golf links links. Shinnecock have they improved how they now more highly regarded as just as a pure golf course because none of the shopping's matter in this how they rank tire tire oakmont cleaned out a bunch of trees so oakmont's wide open now in terms of the vistas is still extremely difficult. Golf Course Abbas firm and fast and those are the playing conditions so the Gulf coast is playing. The that's the trend in Gulf now is to sort of opened things up have firm and fast conditions and for its plot and exactly the same thing can be said a Chinook National Golfing of America. I mean national was no in near the top ten in the world's twenty years ago. Look how come up because they have this tree program to removal treaties and widened. Things up. They don't have really tight contri- as ace and that's not to say Augusta does but they're definitely some holes that pension a little for me like seventeen on the drive it really pinches and now drive and that's contrived it didn't it used to be like that seventies is really wide open souls and then you stand seven which is really really tight dead straight hall. I'm not sure what sort of options options that gives you on the drilling absolutely straight must either tournament play. I was GONNA say that. That's exactly why you answer the question pretty perfectly. I think the what they've done to that course to make it play tougher for tournament. Play as as is probably factoring in part of the reason of why it would be sliding down the list over the years and that it's free for amador's has just. It's very very difficult in the old style of play was very different and much more designed for the members when it when it was when it was built. But what's the experience like. I mean we touch on some parts of it. But what's it like playing Augusta man. What's the what's the story? Tell when you talk about playing at Augusta you raved about while the overall Gulf experience. Because I've heard different things on that you feel like you. Maybe you're kind of walking on eggshells while you're there so take us there from full experience to what it's like to play the course currently to move funds see. Everyone's heard which I will tell. Smoke lead up to everyone kind of everyone that matters done this silly thing. The top one hundred as stories high happened I was down in Florida. BEEN PJ show and it was overplayed medalist in other lovely course in Florida with a great friend of mind. This member from Augusta cold me and he played with the some four. Don't solicit say anything that asking to zero because they don't get that all the time. Maybe that's why I haven't gotten the call every what I want to go. So He's Hey in Florida to Georgia for over the weekend ally. Oh Wow it's finally after a while and then it dawned on me that my really good friend I was with also knew this member but like how to break into. I got a call to go. Clearly he wasn't going I spent a day with it. We played wolf game with a bunch of members at medalist lost money and I was. I was just dreadful. I shop and watch them out with you today. Driving Cars I. I don't know how to tell you this going to play. I'm playing on Saturday. He's up so please lease for you. I said Yeah but I'm playing with Mr Mr Acts. He knows I just felt really bad and he took absolutely champions. I'm so I appreciate. I'll get that one day. Buy me a half and then we ended up in the next day and I realized that I can get fight director the Augusta. Wow might lose clubs here so rented a coffin. Naples Florida and drove solid up to Augusta. Might ten house or something crazy stuff for twenty minutes after a restaurant break or something just flying up the highway just music blaring. I imagine a West rental car in. That's the one that looks like the addams family this car together. I actually stayed at champions as you treat the night before. And some. Let me stay cottages because the member played lives in Augusta so then it starts raining night. So I'm ready to go crazy easy on the hotel written. I'm staying and just smash everything up. 'cause he calls and says we're not going to play some actually call really. He's yeah it's GonNa rain on no and what was great. Is he goes well. Let's spend more with each other. We'll get to my lake. Cast if you chose to do what was great about that as a goal of my Gusta questions out of the way so you know all all the things you ask you know the things not to ask all the things you want to ask both tournament and his experiences that those that way so then when we played the next day and the closest burn driver that point because the severity sucked out. I just walked around in these days of happiness with big follower face and at the ends D. said to me this is great. You didn't talk experience like a lot. People do asking questions about. Oh I did Larry. MIZE chip from here is that which is the cottage. That Roy hit into Blah Blah Blah. And I'm really happy fully but that was only because I spent the day before I would have been lucky. Kiss questions but yeah it was super cool and then So that time we played the coils and then he goes come on. Let's complain the par-three got to that. which was equally co Ozzie? Dinner in the class. And you see all the champions leave a club on the wall in the dining room so tied is driving when he went in ninety. Seven is directly above them now exactly trevor elements for two thousand and four forward. Wait sorry and his drive ahead had was huge in that ten years technology just so far yes it has gone a long way. What all right? Let's do some other Some golf courses. Well why is Pine Valley. The number one course in the world and I know you didn't have it in your top three understandable that is not No one has is set to follow. Follow that list by By letter of the law but why is it ranked number one in your mind. I think is as objective as you possibly can be bad Gulf coast because we're all humans. Ah stuff comes in. So there's no calls that but you go as a good player to to play Pine Valley if you're a slightly lesser plate. You're going to have a really tough day so for me. You want to go to a place where everyone can kind of enjoy it. Which is what I love about your course Royal Melbourne tyree to dementia? Before anyone can play. Why is the best most in the world is because people go that you have to execute every single shot the bag to play Pine Valley and play? Well so I can respect to on. It's certainly my top ten for me. It's not my top three for that reason but I know I have one very safe because there isn't a week whole out there and it asks you to do everything. The parties are fantastic. Fantastic fantastic incredible condition. Yeah that's that's my oppression. Walking away from it was. This was not the most fun I've ever had playing golf but this is probably the best golf course if that makes sense absolutely absolutely makes us. Terry I'm glad to find a brother in arms over Terry A.D. I feel like I'm you know I as going back on what I said in the beginning. Like writ- listen all personal rankings are all personal and it doesn't really matter when it comes down to it but you know sometimes people ask us for advice on golf courses and ask us to rank golf courses so I I try to do as best I can but Pointing this object. This is what I think about it. This is subjective not objective. And I the most I kind of separate the categories Adegoroye like you mentioned as well old courses in new courses just need to be different categories. I think I how do you compare Saint Andrews to tear easy like they're both my favorite just a totally different bring experiences but I say charities my favorite modern course I've played so I've I've mentioned on this podcast many times. What my reasons are for that but why is it rate so highly for you? I just think like you know such a great work to me. Go so about golf is all about the people you're with Tara. Just this incredible book and then and when you get Kinda geeky about the design just as this lovely flow to nothing feels you know what you deem is kind of connect to holes fits in beautifully Israeli Nice elevation changes as variation in the third grade so punishable hallway search you can chase it. Feeds feeds down into the bowl. So I could get on weekly complained that whole then the very next on our show Paso what you saw. You know you'd be able to drive that. And and for the rest of his Co. you have to navigate bunkers and he's got really fun set. Greetings account I really liked the way. There's no real cause they can kind of. How is there's a lost sound but you can grab your club and you know they're pretty chill atmosphere there to give you an footprint and you just kinda kicked out and you play so for the purest most reasonably they'd be like it pure silly Roman role in the rise right now I just? That's more of a feel a place especially when talking about the coast is just a variation see. You know you've got Douglas. It go both ways. You've got a completely blind hosts unusual offer law modern design on the twelfth. They kind of long. Puff O over is which is almost almost kind of teeshot. Eleven year fields. Wait you just hit blind. The top onto the fairway par threes are always. Par-three is really important to me. 'cause I feel when you go to a golf course unless you one of these guys. Go Photograph Awesome memory a truly great Gulf. Because you can I can remember every single. Hold on I'm not one of these guys that can remember every hall in every costs about the place. I do user sir. None of the threes. I don't think that the policies Attari to your special. Yeah that's what you kind of touched on something there that I find you know. It's hard hard to delineate between the playing experience and the golf course right but like the second I stepped on that golf course the ocean is like being piped in through speakers. Here's it's so loud out there so blue. The white sand and that scene in that setting was as like a beautiful of a settings. I've seen on a golf course now. Some purists will say they like you know it's the old arguments pebble beach if it didn't have an ocean would be in the top ten or whatever like how do you do you even bother trying to separate out the golf course from like the the overall experience of being out of place as a gopher I'd be lying of us at I separated. I spent so you're kind of lying. Yeah you turn up and walk on the water. Is that better than a walk in the woods. Most of the time for me. Yes you can hear the see. That's a great thing and that's what grew up with sunny eastern on love that but for me it's more like playing conditions. I WANNA play someone. That's really firm and fasten. I was just. I'm just in Korea a couple of weeks ago and I play at Southgate Bonus Club which is just like jaw-dropping leads and I kind of joke with some of the other day kind of scenes have the Golden Age Gulf coast design. I feel like we're almost like the INSTAGRAM age of Golf. Course design at the moment where every hole in these incredible pitcher and south kind of pulls off and I was lucky enough to play with the owner China. And he says. Look if you're honest in what you think and I said well digitally it's incredible and the playing conditions. It needs to be firm out. I don't like the strike fairways away. That's my personal preference. If it was faster that played a little faster I would love this place. That'd be full and over about it and he kind of you know slightly disagree disagree with that but since place. We'll ever asked me and so I think to me it's more about playing conditions. If somebody's firm and fast I really get kick out of that and see in the bowl Cata roll around the ground and what to play Somerset Hills about months. Oh to play in that tournament with a great friend of mine and I played a few years ago. I don't remember it being is is get. I think the reason why so for me. This time is because the superintendents really take it to the next level and then guys who got big job on their hands again this firm fast condition which is definitely in fashion at the moment thankfully. Because that's what I think. Most of US want Did you have the crushed pistachios at the turn at southgate eight I played with. I've played with the odor there as well is like one of the wildest Gulf experience I've ever had. He's I don't know what he has. Now but maybe seventy eight year old billionaire Korean guy that is like a fashion mogul and he takes a sun protection very very seriously but that course I I I remember asking was what was the most difficult part of building this golf course and he said moving the graves like they had to move actual graves to build that golf course the other thing that was kind of similar which is cool. I said you need things things. After about the festival you go in that unit. The glass counter tea houses shaped by the titanic before you play that incredible three and you brought this frozen fruits or staffer. I am fruits and a ball. I thought it was ice cream originally persimmon. which is this orange fruits which is cool? And he didn't realize the Gulf connection with a wet percent as it was like this needs to be your thing candlelit Berga dog Olympic. This needs to be your thing is the persimmon at this whole can also pledged well that stretch of holes from like eleven to sixteen at South Cape is as bowed as a close to being to Cyprus as I've been her of course course that I've played That up that Dogleg left K.. Poll up the Hill Cape Off. I think it's fourteen fifteen. There was absolutely sick. Let's go to Cyprus. Now what is it in your top three. Of course you rated no. It wasn't an infirmary. What's up okay? What is what makes Cypress Point special? What makes it number two on on the list again the variation so about variations so and the flow and the routing of the Gulf course as just magical environment? So you're you're there and you hear all the sounds that were just talking about that Tara together. Cyprus and Spain certainly towards the end of the round. I think it was really special about Cyprus rehashing. Everyone else's is always said is the different landscapes. So if you hit the road to start with which is pretty funky and then you're so after serving that open land for awhile. Then you're into the trees kind of you know when you get about four and then the two bats about par fives. I think this is certainly the day like original holes out there and so of a place. That had drivable Paphos. Before they were fashionable. I just feel like the environment. There is what makes it so special and guess people going could so unbelievably beautiful. So I think as soon as you walk in you want to enjoy it. Because of that and then the Gulf and the Green Complex of the special they just kind of really blow you away and exceed all expectations in Spence. What was the hardest course of them to get on? The hottest goal of all of them together on is what I didn't get on so originally sat to twenty seventeen lists. And I've made this rule that I wouldn't cole anywhere email or anything like that. Only introductions introductions and I quickly realized that I was never gonNa meet someone from Kerry Packer's family so Alliston in Australia. That's what I thought might be. Didn't even try try because you know. When when are you going to stumble across them on this family? So those of you listening to that don't have owned by the packer family and Australian billion. Lina passed away his family. Have this apparently incredible costs about six hours. Sydney and Joel maybe happened. But Spurs out of the causes there are more Camago for quite a while in Cincinnati. Which of leads onto the cray? Ashley like the Console Governor Bama Tangent is about the trips they have to take like geographically to be able to play the top one hundred. You kind of do all these clusters so you can sort of do the long island tramp San Francisco trip the La trip so on but then you come to these courses in the mid west and the essential US Southern Hills. So I did this crazy. Roughly from Edinburgh lives to Tulsa landed played southern hills drove drove stated Hutchison. Kansas plates pray. June's drove stay didn't at North Platte Nebraska at which is an interesting place. We're up in the morning. Drove an hour arrived at sandhills at the same time. I laughed north by because you come across the timeline plays. They're got in the car straight after five thousand. A DENVER. Uh Gotten a plane to Milwaukee rented a car German Arab to knit worse than straight slapped. Woke up played whistling straights drifts. Two hundred hours down to hair Chicago cargo jet. The car flew from there to Columbus played. Golf Club drove up to Toledo Ohio and played into drove to the airport. Flew home from Detroit. seven-day Mike I mean that's when you do get white line fever and you completely lose your minds and you're insane and I'll be again. Honest is only so much in the Gulf Kazakhs. You actually take at that point. I was going to say that has the diminish the experience at least a a little bit. I forget when I saw you last but I think you were getting ready to embark on another crazy leg like a hard to reach leg. And that's kind of the underrated rated part of this is the kind of tick off a lot at once if I remember right. It was something like refined from Scotland to Dubai to China. Or something like that. Can you do. Do you remember this leg of the trip. Yeah yeah that was. That was actually a great question. It's another what's that I just talked about called the doubted that mop-up trip because like no effort toge- eh just be mopping up. Then the want to China was to play Schenken Bay on Hainan Island which is actually dropped out. These really great great coke close down there and China very very private and seventy two government. One of the homes you can read up about one of the is knowing that and so anyway anyway. I flew from Edinburgh through Charles ago in Paris at a flew to somewhere in China. That we ratchet downplayed that then uh gray experience. The next day I flew to career and plays nine bridges the next day and that is actually nine. Bridges hand hand on heart is one of the courses before their thought. There's no way this coach should be in the list Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. You know there's no way this coast in Korea should be the one hundred and I was rush pleasantly supply price when played it. I'm not saying it shouldn't be top fifty which I used to be but it was a way way better golf course than I thought it would day toilet and think it's fantastic as well. It's cool if you get like a windy day you know. The fairways are wide. If you give it soft like you we've been talking talking about. It's Kinda lame but if you get a windy day with crosswinds it got really wide fairways and some cool holes out there. It's not it was way overrated at forty one or whatever it originally came out at but now now it has fallen fifty some spots with the new rankings. But I I don't hate it in the top one hundred. It was not a top fifty course but I agree I think it was. It was catching a lot. Of flack for being the high on the list and I think there are probably shenanigans. That are involved in that. But I'm fine with it way. Way Down the list. But yeah new compensation. At least I'm happy to stay there but then after that athletes are Japan and played flew into Kobe. And there's just kind of a funny story I'll tell you at the time. The gentleman with ars mentors Dutch guy called Dick Dick Hama spell gummer that pronounced homer for that playing that role. Hey this is a great thing about golf right and that fifty seven year old guy never met in my life and then it bumped intimate year later in Scotland and I said Hey I'm going to do Korea and Japan this winter october-november that you wanna come with at never. I literally met the guy for four hours and he came with me has amazing trip so we flew into Kobe and then they'll try and use Dutch accent. He's like Hey Shaima Nemo and Scotland you drive to the left and Japan the driving left so you get the drive. Thanks very much so we hire. Hi this car and we drive and we played a row and row which start through the course then we got the plane. We played Tokyo and we plays. He's just been redone hands. which I thought was really cool? Unfortunately just dropped guess not enough people have been there since it's been redone Kawana which I thought was great. I'm thinking that somewhere played Yokohama. which are those saw it and then I thought to myself you know what I'm never going to get on this place. So let's look at the first list with Alston on it and it was two thousand thirteen or the most recent list and it's twenty thirteen and if it changed that list I I would only have to play a couple more courses but unfortunately one of them was Royal Adelaide. Which is obviously in Australia? And I'd already kind of cleaned up Australia New Zealand but I just had to swallow it literally got a plane from Japan from Tokyo to Adelaide that day and to play roller delayed I ended up playing the cats. And I'm really got a dead 'cause I love the club. The cats in the company was gray. And Allison Mackenzie coast was not like and then a GonNa play and this is very crazy again because it changed that list Nak Durban Country Club in South Africa was less. Well give it a come. This far I might as well fly from Adelaide to Durban South Africa so so flew flew from rollout late. Haven't been there for one day and then flew to Devon Country Club or Durban in South Africa for one one day and put together by email. Because you can pay and play that. And they found out from Scotland. So the captain was the player. Douse I I'll cool. So then I had called the the email at politeness tug of war. So this guy's like you have to come stay in the house like Sarah. That's very kind of you. I don't know I couldn't possibly. And then he ended up doing it anyway. I would stay with this guy and we have it the first night and then we play goals the next day and joined us up in the morning. We whipped around and three is a bunch of people for business. After some of which I'm still in touch with and they're coming over to Scotland Scotland we get to play like a match against what club which will be fun but then I just flew home. A trip was Scotland's to China one day to curry out that one day to Japan for about five days then flew from Japan's share if a one day from Australia to South Africa for one day and then flew home to scarves from that so that was the craziest phone believable. Do you have any estimation on how much money you spent doing this quest. My answer to that is it. Cost me a pair of earrings. New Sean Wife. She sounds like a pretty great wife. What if you were to I guess? Give advice to anyone that kind of wanted to play. A lot of golf courses in the world are kind of just at least you know a lot of people dream playing these places but and they. I'm sure people come up to you and say like how do you get on all these courses. But what an overarching piece of advice you could give people. If if there is one I would say don't get too hung up on it like if you really really WanNa the focus on it that pick one. Listen stick to. I think that's really good advice. And then as you Kinda Gansu Eichel the nervous ninety s you then you can say okay. Is that way at dinner. Serving euless comes out. Don't be too precious Solu- pride if a new less means you're like three causes closer and then just switch to the new list. It's no big deal. No one's going to hold you to task for it. You do this refund. I'm saying not even for list seekers B- like somebody that's played two of the top. One hundred is like man. I would really like to play some some of these world class golf courses. How does me off the street? Get to get on some of these places and there's no easy answer to that right. The the private clubs is just very lucky to meet wonderful people. I guess just be yourself and have your fun to play golf with which I hope I am. Play fast played with anybody your social after the Game You keep in touch with people. I always write a lovely. Thank you know. I always heard that somewhere I always take invariably about Lewinsky of him coming from Scotland or ought to pay for the hose caddy. Because maybe they've come out here. She's calmer specifically just the host need might play that day. So that's a good way to think NCAA this like the general etiquette that I think is really important so writes in a nice slight handwritten. Thank you after. I think there's a long way and then people well all look to help you out as thing you really want to do. And that's what I feel like. I've learned along the way to places that obviously were extremely fortunate. We get some decent access to a lot of places but people's willingness to extend hospitality in the hospitality element of Golf Right. Were not all members I but some members of really nice clubs almost feel like it's part of their duty as member of that club to share these places with other people and not every club has has that mindset. But I'm wondering if you felt that along the way definitely people have very bad. We're all kindred spirit. There's not many people that I've really met that through Gulf that don't like very ratios and count on one hand. I think I count on to be continued. But those people don't usually hang around you tune it both the Gulf Industry and of the club game of golf when you going around hanging out clubs every clubs handful of those guys granted but once you're in a certain circle of friends and you're being introduced to people they'll get injured. You see a bad guy. You'RE GONNA get people and Gulf this kind of wonderfully reciprocal game that. I'll host anyone anyone that I know through a friend who wants to come and play at my cost. I'll happily batches for someone they happen to be in your corner of the world you know for whatever reason the full can you. Can you take them out for me. I'm always happy and aggressive forward in that way. Then good things. It's happened so wonderful about golf. You can play with anyone of any gender age handicap but as long as you have the same what's Fund mindset. You'll get on the most people. Yep No that makes sense made it this far in can you just please just can you. Are you willing to just trash one course on this list the someplace that rub you the wrong way or something like that. Why we think of us not to quote show like this show Kinda joking here in Scotland Gentlemen never tells but I don't know I don't look at it unless I've got it in front of me New Lesotho? You know everyone's who has been super polite and I'm not just saying that everybody is treated me like gold. I've been to certainly be very unkind to me to say that a place that me I would say of course. I paid money for the like a big result coz unfortunately or fortunately treat me like I'm looking through it now. I mean a couple of the ones I mentioned Orlea I feel bad because again I was treated really nice. He paid played had a great time. Thomas Jeans Portugal shouldn't have spend some other causes jolt. titleist probably shouldn't have been there either. The also keep those names psomas out. That's the one that really just the cats channels. Wow was this tune in any way increased list. The people treat me really. Well I will with. Do you have one favorite go to memory from from all the all the the the whole quest probably finishing in terms of what I focused on the question finishing a moth contain but things like driving in sandhills. That's really special. Draw people. Talk About Nolan drive. You know you see that every year on TV trump the private into sandhills unbelievable. I mean you just see Gulf Oil's everywhere like once he could scratch a piece of paper yourself. I'd say finish finish it more fun. Tenuous was really special because that to really great friends with me That came to pass to finish that list with me and that that was really special. I guess if I had one round left to play it would always be no ferrick. Probably Concern Lucky to grab there so I was getting ready to ask if you had if you had of all the top one hundred's if you're playing golf tomorrow and you get to pick anyone and you could be transported. There it would be north barrack. Well the head four hundred fifty Grand New Zealand. Maybe Terry and I know sporadic will if I get to choose what will be my final round of golf without question To play every day for the rest of their life. That would be buried without question that sentiment. Are you willing and able to tell the Tom doak story from you. Guys playing Northberg together. Yeah okay it got him. Let's get have forgot this threat. Love this story might hopefully come across the two so yeah. Tom's building you hold survey sons and like it set early. Loves those variances and let's let's go play afternoon and you want to and the real secret behind that was I just wanted to hear his comments. It's on the coast but anyone's Tom like if you get on topic peace talks and talks and talks about golf. Courses Database is incredible and his mind his his memory is maybe not the most generous with his words and other situations. He's not he's not chatty guy. So we don't play North Barrack and Eric Iverson Listen and Kei Goby to associates are really highly regarded. Kim Play too and they're like really billing me and it really really chatting avenue. Great Time I'm really said anything and we're on the twelfth which is my favorite Hol Berek. Not Necessarily the best that just love all. I just said out loud up. This is pretty much my favorite hold on the golf course and Eric kyw very kindly chimed in and said Yeah. I think it's really itunes this this this whatever. Tom's those that nothing and then we get to the thirteen. T. which is the you'll know but for others are famous whole called the pits and it has a wall that runs kind of almost symmetric across the length of the green that people say cussing from Thirteenth Green is called the pets. So we're August having this great time and tons and tons outspoken. For like an hour and just stanzel straight ahead and illnesses like monitoring voice. He just goes. This is pretty pretty much my favorite hole and all of Gaul. Now you're listening. Well it was. There's always a machine just spitting out because he spoke in for an hour and then all of a sudden he just opened up and you start talking about the background at North back and we went for. There's some food and northbound passwords and he was so kind with his time and he just sat there and talked about what makes Northberg great really without asking questions but it was so funny at the time not said anything and then he threw out. This huge is favourite. Par-four think he said Favorite Hall Engulf was the thirteenth and North back. And Eric and and I have a look to each other. Just got inaudible light. Okay deal. That's what I love about it. The most is like that that for somebody. That's he is seen like legitimately almost all of the golf course. And Fred McCall and his favorite hole golf. Almost the only thing he said all day was that that I will never forget that story. I love that story. It's pretty funny. But they're the funny stories like you go to places Sunningdale halfway Sunningdale. I always get chocolate. Iras famously at Sunningdale you have a sausage and because almost like call it sausage after ten Sunningdale and they have a sausage convener the like of sausage committee that chooses the sunk that they serve and they're always this really imagery of some guy walking around London. Gordon handed out business card. Is Names like I duNNo. Dj's the sausage convenient Sunningdale golf club and the funny quirky stuff. Why that is like the interesting things about these places that you visit man? I feel like we could do a whole nother. Second part of all the cool little random things you've seen in a lot of places but I I think you've you've done it. I think you've got an hour without sounding like a Douche talking about the top one hundred courses in the world and It's a topic that I'm sure you get asked about a lot but I think Our listeners will really enjoy really hearing the stories from the road. And how you did it and Perspective on golf courses that we all love Jason South. Thanks Simon for the time. And we'll be seeing you here in a in a few few months in in April. Yeah we'll see in April and sent Andrew's conformed to that have another. The refugees are going to be a great talking. Cheers man looking forward to club beater right club today. That's better than most about. It is better than most expecting things.

golf US Scotland Gulf Gulf coast golf magazine Augusta Golf Club Gulf magazine Pine Valley Gulf Australia Augusta Chicago golf digest Simon Holt Edinburgh Korea Melvin
News | Evolution Of Course Design

GOLF.com Podcast

29:05 min | 1 year ago

News | Evolution Of Course Design

"I'm sitting here in the Gulf dot com. Golf magazine offices with Paul stringer to the executive vice president Nicklaus design. He he wears different hats. But essentially, Paul you're in charge of design for nNcholas company. That's correct. And how did you get here? How how how does one get to this point by you've got this golf background got obviously tremendous experience in international course, design, but where does that start? Where are you from originally? How'd you get into golf? Well, it's it's an interesting process. I like many kids grew up playing golf and living in the north west. I'm from the Seattle area originally and went on to play college golf up in the north west and from there, I got the golf bug. And even though I I taught school and in coach for a little while. I still miss the golf business. So once I got married, my wife, and I moved down to Amazon ah where obviously they were. Developing and building a lot of golf courses and got in the Gulf business and became a PGA pro and worked at a golf acidity for awhile. And shortly thereafter, joined a company called Troon golf, which was started by Dana Garmon, and Troon golf was based in Scottsdale, managing golf courses which had not been done at that level before. So I joined Dana when they had five golf courses and was an executive with their company growing, the business, adding management contracts all over the country, and then it was probably six or seven years into that company. I got a call from a Representative at Nicklaus that said they were looking to grow Nicklaus design, a little more internationally, and would I have an interest in talking to them? So I met out at Pebble Beach with a gentleman that was in charge of design at the time, and we had a good meeting, and they offered me the position to come to south, Florida, doing business development form internationally. So what year was this than the officially joined on with nNcholas? I joined them in two thousand. Three and immediately started working on on facilities outside the US as well as some domestic. But the first real big one was the one we did at Jack Nicklaus golf club Korea in song dough Korea where we eventually got the presence Cup in two thousand fifteen but I can remember go into that site when half of it was under water, and it was the Inchon bay, and that was very significant in the Korean war because that's where our troops landed. And we filled in the site and created this Jack Nicklaus golf club and the rest is history. So that was the first real big one that I had a impression on with the company and from there. It's just kinda grown over time. Yeah. I mean, so you come in and oath three things were probably going gangbusters at that point. That was you know, in some ways right around the peak of of golf course, construction of people wanting new golf. Sources built with their you know, real estate developments or with different facilities that were going up. Did it feel like it at the time? Like this was you know, a real boomtime. It did we were just finished with the Japanese development. We did twenty six courses in Japan and Japan was of very big market for us. And so I just missed that way. But the NextWave was a lot of international things as well as domestic was still going pretty well because it was being driven by the Konomi and by the housing market. And so a couple of places that that grew in in the development of golf was Russia, and I can remember going into Russia, and we did a few deals there of Jack Nicklaus, signature golf courses. And you'd never think of that in Russia at the time. But that's where we were growing, and certainly other places in Europe and Asia and China was just getting started into two major development. So I start spending more and more time in Asia. In south East Asia. And so so what's that? Like, I mean, first of all just to compare, you know, doing a golf course deal in Russia versus the US or in Russia verse Japan versus the US. There must be just cultural differences that exist and and differences in the way business gets done. Oh, exactly in the cultural differences and just the fact that even doing the contract, they don't have terms that are fairways greens. Or so you had to explain in the contract that it was the landing area. Well, that could mean for an airplane unneccessarily for golf ball to land on so terminology was different. And and just the process and the time element was different in Russia. You've got a six month season. So it took four years to develop a golf course instead of the US where it would normally take two years, and you'd have to train personnel and find a contractor that could do the work. So you'd have your challenges. Both the language barriers and cultural barriers. As well as seasonal barrier. So every place was different. But you know, you grow a lot and learn a lot through developing in each one of these cultures because in this in this case, or some of these cases, you're going into places that not only do they want a new golf course. They don't necessarily have golf embedded as part of their local culture, at least that's right and in Russia, for example, the the big thing for having a golf course, it was a status symbol for one. And number two a gathering point for members to eat and drink and entertain. And so that's how they looked at it. No. By the way, we have a golf course. So, you know, in that kind of led to developing more and more residential or resort around those golf courses. But there I thought was more of a focal point for community or for a restaurant or activities for some of the affluent. And so that's how that all started. And that that may be was especially at time where that was in vogue in the. S also, right? This idea of you know, golf course, as an amenity as something that goes along with a development, and obviously things changed a few years later. So that must've been at tricky time to be in the whole business. It was golf courses were developed for a lot of different reasons in at first in the US, it started with the private golf course model like you have around New York and Philadelphia were you had a lot of private golf courses, which were standalone golf courses in posted very very prestigious tournaments, then it grew to having more resorts. And then finally residential developments centered around a golf course. And in the case of something like desert mountain out in Scottsdale. Arizona we did six golf courses around a residential development, which was unheard of in the day. But it it was because of the economy and the residential market being driven to have golf as a. Major amenity. So then how did things change two thousand eight two thousand nine in general if you look at the industry golf course construction in the US, at least grinds to a halt. Where do you guys go in terms of of business plan at that point while it's a good question? What happened in the US is obviously golf courses weren't being developed as much somewhere actually being taken away some of that had bad business plans or in the wrong location at the wrong time didn't succeed. So we went from say sixteen thousand golf courses down to fourteen thousand. So there is this natural attrition of golf courses domestically. However, because there is so many golf courses done in the US. There was the need to do renovation. And so we got involved with more and more renovation of not only our courses, but also other courses that people needed work and even to reinvent themselves as a club again attract new members. And in the meantime, places like China in Vietnam took off and so we are. Doing a lot of things in those countries that were brand new builds. So we had this combination of new courses coming online as well as renovating existing golf courses. So it was a good model. Interesting. So you guys were able to to adapt. And so you would you say that then new course construction from your perspective has has taken off more internationally in the last say ten years than than probably in the US. Definitely definitely. Yeah. Places like China. I mentioned Vietnam Cambodia doing a few things South Africa. We had great success. So there are areas internationally that really grew as a result of the domestic market being down. And we're proactive enough to have representatives in these different countries that could tell us and help us develop golf courses in these countries. So we had good Intel and in the business grew internationally while we're still doing some renovation of existing golf courses and tell me about Vietnam in particular because I know we've. We've run a couple stories recently in the magazine because there are developers that have had a lot of success recently. There's this total boom happening in Vietnam. What are the conditions that allow that to be possible? Viet Vietnam is very interesting. It's it's relatively small country. But it's grown a lot. It's a very young country. Seventy percent of their population is under forty years old, and they really embrace golf in the particular developer that were working with Madame. Nah. Who is a client that we have an agreement with to do more and more golf courses. I think we just signed our eighth golf course with Madame not in in Vietnam, but you have a long coastline. So allow the golf courses are being developed along the coast, but then a lot around city centers like annoy, and she's based in Hanoi. So we've done some golf courses in and around Hanoi and the population. Continues to grow they really endorse in support golf and golf is being done right now is more of an amenity. But they're also doing it around residential and in denying around resorts in beachfront communities and you'll see more and more that develop. I would say the next three to five years. Vietnam will continue to have a very strong growth of the game golf golf courses. Their president and premiered head. They had put out an issue to do one hundred golf courses in the next five years. And I think we're halfway through that. But you're seeing more and more people getting involved with design and development of golf courses. In vietnam. I'm interested to to ask you about the the Nicklaus aesthetic, and what it means to be Nicklaus course, obviously, they're Nicklaus courses in all regions landscapes climates, but what are some defining features of Jack Nicklaus design while I think the the biggest feature. It's not really a feature. I I would say is the quality of the golf course that's done. Terms of the design the the shot making skills that you need to have. We vary the Gulf holes. So that you don't have all the holes going in one direction. They they might run north south east west, and we pay attention to the topography of the land. And make sure that we design a golf course that fits the site the best that we can. And we work with the developer and trying to find out what they want on the site. Do they want this golf course for tournament? Do they want it for the average person to play do they want a membership base? That is a golf course that everybody can play from any age group in any ability and have fun and come back and enjoy it. Hopefully, they can. But I think you'll see in our courses, we don't have it particular pattern where the bunkers all look the same or the greens are all elevated or you're all built the same way. We change. A lot of that. In terms of what the topography is what the landscape is what the developer, developers wishes are have you seen a shift in terms of just trends in and the looks of golf courses. There is probably a different answer. I know domestically. There's been a bit of a push towards this kind of minimalistic, look and feel have you guys felt that in the US versus abroad. I think you're right. I think it is more of a minimalistic and more of a natural feature where some courses were really manufactured or created where people brought in a lot of material and created something that was very artificial looking. I think more and more designers of today or trying to do something that really ties into the natural landscape. And that's always been our model ever since we've been designed golf courses to work with the landscape. That's already they're not make it look artificial. So. Yeah that that's definitely a trend. And again, it comes back to the topography or give. Even and the conditions you're giving and not creating something that really looks on natural. But that can last the test of time think the the big credit that people tell us after we do a golf courses they say, hey, this golf course looks like it's been here for a long time. Even though it's brand new when you think about projects you've been involved with or just Nicklaus properties that you visit to to kind of check in on. You've said that you know, some years you've been on the road over two hundred days, and are there places that really feel like home that you really feel a sense of pride being at about your few of your favorite properties. Well, that's interesting because they're all kind of my favorite, and they all have different stories behind him. But I can tell you that I just had lunch with some people told him about experience in Beijing. When I first started going to Beijing in the mid nineties and. I think there were at the time Moore bicycles on the road than cars, and they didn't have the modern airports, and they didn't have the ex Pat hotels in it was the wild wild west. And so I've been in many of those circumstances where you're pioneering, and you're going in there, not knowing the language or who talk to create in the opportunity, and then finally something like song dough happens where we did the Jack Nicklaus golf club Korea. And you bring Presidents Cup to that site, which when I first went to that site half of it was under water, and we thought this will never happen. But we had the vision as well as the developer and create something very special for the people to enjoy their as well as to bring tournament to that to that region. So that's been one of the more probably favorable projects I've worked on and then obviously our influence in Vietnam and bringing Goff into countries like Turkmenistan and Russia where. Where people would never expect to have golf courses. How many golf courses? Do you guys have in Russia? I submit this is a Gotcha question. But roughly how many golf course you only did we only did four golf courses in in Russia. But you know, we've got over four hundred twenty-five worldwide and two hundred fifty domestic golf courses. So it keeps us busy, and we're going to continue to grow in the southeast Asia region. And I think in Saudi Arabia's the next new market, and you know, we'll continue to do renovations in a lot of different regions. How about the difficulties of building golf courses in the Middle East? I mean, obviously, there's there's political difficulties. There's also climate difficulties. Just in terms of grass that doesn't need a ton of water that can take on climate of salt or are salt water. What are some of the challenges involved there? Well, I've said to a lot of people water is the new gold because water is is getting more and more difficult. Right to have especially freshwater. But in some of these countries, they're doing more and more with desalinization plants reverse osmosis. So you can get water, and then they coming up with different strands of turf where it's more salt, tolerant and can handle more, salty soils, and and more salty water. And so we're finding a way to make those work, but there are challenges especially in those regions where you know, they want to create something very very special. But I e Quaid it to something like what we've done out in the desert in the US where in Arizona, you see these beautiful golf courses mixed into the desert, and certainly you don't do as much in terms of turf acres because you're going to have to have more desert landscape, but you have good turf in areas where people will play play the golf fall from and the rest becomes more native. What's the most exciting part of your job? You say it's you know, landing the the. Dealer seeing site for the first time, or is it, you know, once things start to to take shape on a course that's going to be developed. What is is? There a moment that gets you the most fired up. I think it's all the above to be honest with you. I think it's something where once you get the deal signed. There's a big odd that comes out like finally, we've we've made it we've got the deal done. It's taken a lot of time to negotiate a deal and to get us involved. But then once the golf course starts and they break ground and everybody's excited about it. That's also exciting. But then when you have the grand opening know that something that was just a vision or a plan as actually come to fruition. That's something you have a lot of pride in. And so every time you come back to that site. And you see how it's matured, and how people taken pride in the golf course it gives you a great deal of satisfaction. And how do you possibly keep track of all these courses? And how do you, you know, delegate responsibilities to enough? Good people to to keep your eye on over four hundred cores. Verses worldwide that it is challenge. And we have a great team both in in Florida throughout the world that that helps us with that. And it it takes a lot of people. It's a very labor intensive job. And you know, we have a lot of people out there that do a nice job supporting us both on the ownership side and Representative side and then our home office. So we delegate a lot of that responsibility. And our team in Florida does terrific job in staying in touch with the owners, and like any business we have our challenges, but they're good challenges. And they're ones where we try to stay in touch and now through all the social media, and and the internet it's easy to contact them. It's easy for them to contact us. And so we stay plugged in. And just in general in the US and abroad. I mean, you sound mystic about the state of the game in about your guys prospects in the game and the health of golf. Horses worldwide. Yeah, I am. I'm very positive and optimistic about the game. And especially when you see something like the masters that just happened and tiger winning the masters. I think that was a good shot of energy to the to the Gulf business in in the Gulf world in general, but you see all these young guys and gals coming up. We're just talking about some Crean golfers in the cryan LPGA members on the on the LPGA tour, and how successful they've been. It's good to see that people are coming from a lot of different cultures and environments now playing on the tour, and I think people can see that. It's it's global sport now, and that's exciting. And I think the more initiatives we have for a junior Gulf in in even things like the top golf. So the world where it's entertainment and people start doing that just to get some awareness to the game plays a lot of dividends to what we're trying to do and get them. To come to the golf course in. I think rather than the old model where they'd come to the club and spend most of their day at the club. People are wanting to play the golf course fairly quickly move on. They've got family duties and and trying to do other things. So, you know, the time commitment is is a big challenge. And so there some initiatives to have six whole loops to have twelve whole loops to have nine holes par threes were working with all those into into speed up the game a little bit. And also make it easier for the people that are just starting to play the game yet ano- Jack has been at the forefront of thinking of alternative ways to take cut down on time. Or have these six or twelve whole loops what is it like working with Jack himself? What is what has been his influences ethos over the years in terms of designing courses? I think the big thing that people would tell you is that Jack really understands the game and from a player's perspective to the design. Line. There's some players that play the game that aren't necessarily good designers, and you have designers that don't necessarily play the game. And Jack does both very very well. And he looks at the golf course as a natural feature and how to best route the the golf course on that particular property, and then put in shot values, and he's taught all our guys that are designers how to really design and how to take advantage of the land and to make it a fun experience. And like he says people always ask them. What's your favorite hole on? This course, Jack and Jack says all eighteen I don't have a favorite hole. So every hole. He takes the time and effort to make that the best toilet can be on that golf course. And that's also how our designers think do you guys look elsewhere look at at what other companies are doing other architecture doing to kind of compare see what you like what you don't like. And are there specific people that have had an influence. I think if you look at golf courses worldwide and all of us that play the game of played some really good golf courses. And they're not obviously all. Nicklaus courses. So we understand and respect what a particular designer did on that particular property, and you know, if you look back in time people like Alister MacKenzie that was a a real pioneer in the game in terms of design, and what he's done, and you look at a course in the model of how something like a Gusta developed over time where you know, there weren't that many trees on it. And then it became very treat, and even now they tweak it continually to make it better and better, and they adapt. The golf course to the way the ball is an in the game has changed the ball's going throw that quints better and people are hitting it further and they're stronger, and so they're Dapitan the golf course to that. And so I think it it just depends on the course you play, but we respect all the different designers. We we enjoy playing other designers golf course and Doni stories come to mind of of seeing Jack in action on on a course in the design process. You know of him being surprised or him having a strong feeling or passion for for certain part of a design. I can remember when we were walking the site doing a site visit in Spain in art designer was with Jack as well as some of our team. And there was a tree that was up by the green in the distance. And he is asking different people what they thought about the tree being close to the green just to get their opinions. He knew what he was thinking. But he wanted to get their opinions. And so I looked at Manny said Paul, what do you think? So I said, Jack, I personally keep the tree I think it adds a lot of character. And he looked at me goes, I agree. And so, and then I've also had the the absolute opposite of that where we've been on site visits and somebody said something, and I answered a question and Jack looked at me, and he said who's the designer here? And so that was my message that I wasn't the designer that he was but he's got a great. I fort he knows that my areas business development and. That's where I stay. But it he's been a great role model in terms of his desire and his vision for doing good golf courses and really working with the owner of the developer to achieve their goals in our guys all follow that that discipline. It's one of the most iconic Nickless designs. I guess he's made it a home for him. It's become almost home for for. Tiger Woods the way he has played there. And it's connected Jack to I guess to the modern PGA tour game across the years. Right. Even to Bryce into Shambo winning their last year. So what is wrong place like near field mean to to Jack into Nicklaus? I think it means a lot to all of us specially Jack and Jack's family because Jack obviously created MIR filled village, and it really became the first stadium. Course, they talk about stadium courses, and you know, the first one that really gets talked about as the stadium course out in Scottsdale, the TPC of Scottsdale, which hat now has the way. Management was referred to as one of the first stadium golf courses. But I call the for stadium course, really Muirfield Village because Jack wanted to have the the the golf down below and the viewing for the spectators up above. So if you look at Muirfield Village, it's a great platform for people to watch golf, and it's very very interesting for people to get around into have great views and to be able to see a lot of different halls. And the thing that's really interesting about Muirfield Village is Jack has continued over the years to improve it. So he's never completely satisfied. He's always looking at ways to improve it. Whether he's enhancing the pond on sixteen or making a green decision or lengthened in the whole like you did on seventeen 'cause they're hitting it too far eighteen adding the bunkers down the right side of the fairway so that they couldn't carry the ball as far. So he's constantly adapting the golf course to how the game is changing. And you can remember a few years ago. So when I think the top golfer was averaging two eighty six off the tee, and now it's three ten or three twelve or whatever the number is it keeps going up. And so the golf course gets longer and longer to adapt to the the players that are coming out. But one of my favorite stories was when K J Choi won the memorial and cage HI came off the green, and many people understand K J Choi used to be a a weightlifter, and he got into the game of golf, and he told Jack when he was getting his handshake when Jack shook his hand for winning the Termine, Jack the first Gulf book, I ever read was your book golf my way. That's how I learned to play the game golf and look at me today. So it's amazing. What Jack has seen over the time since the Termine start in the mid eighties. Excuse me, mid seventies. Eighteen is that way. I mean, you've got gallery all down the right side of the fairway all the way up to the green and the green kind of sits in a horseshoe. Up above you can put gallery as well. As into the clubhouse. So it's got views from all around it, which is great. And Jack is always there with his wife, Barbara and his son Jackie and Jack to is is running the tournament now. And so they've got a real family affair at Muirfield Village. And all the members that support it in the local charity and nationwide that is a big sponsor there. And obviously with the charity of the Nicklaus children's hospital is a is a big thing for the Nicklaus families. Well, and you can see that means something to the players also when they come off, and you know, it's part of winning the obviously there's money there's money at all these events, and there's there's plenty of money involved with winning them memorial. But that's part of it. Right. As you get to shake the hand of one of the all time greats. Absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of respect for all the players for Jack and vice versa. Jack really respects what they do as well. Because he knows how hard it is to win a tournament. And it's kind of like with Arnold Palmer at Bay Hill. Everybody played in that tournament out of respect Arnold. And so yeah. In one of the things that was funny as Jack introduced many years ago, he introduced milkshakes at Muirfield Village and the guys in the locker room would talk about the milkshakes. That was the talking point is like you're talking to a little kid that had just had a milkshake from McDonald's, but they had to special milkshake at Muirfield Village in the guys all talked about it. And so that was a big drawing point for a lot of the guys. But you're right. They they play the golf course. Because a it's a very very good golf course. And be because of Jack and the tradition and the respect that they have for making me thirsty house. They're all last last year was my first time there. I was there all week. But I'd never got up one of those milkshakes. We got a sneak one into you from the locker room. It's right. I'm gonna make my way in there this year, Paul. Thanks a lot for coming on for joining us today. My pleasure. Thank you.

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Away Game | Introducing Ran Morrissett as GOLFs new Architecture Editor

GOLF.com Podcast

32:42 min | 1 year ago

Away Game | Introducing Ran Morrissett as GOLFs new Architecture Editor

"Take take is welcome to away. Game comes new travel focused podcast where we dive it into all things travel today. I'm really excited to introduce to you. Ran morissette golf dot coms and golf magazine's new architecture. We looked for this person extensively and we finally landed on r- and we feel very lucky to be able to call him a colleague. You'll see him impact not only the way a golf magazine and golf dot com ranks golf courses but also the way we write about them and assess them so rand grew up in the golf loving family it consisted of a natural forces foursome actually two younger brothers and his father his interest in golf course architecture started about forty years ago when he went on family trips with those two brothers and his father breath and those places included harbor town pinehurst number to scotland so some of the greats ran went on to move to australia and asia from about nineteen eighteen ninety three to two thousand and when he was in australia he started golf club atlas which if you're into golf course architecture at all you know it. It's the largest website devoted to the single topic of golf course architecture more recently. He was involved with updating two books that he says were the most influential in igniting his passion for golf course architecture. Those books are the world atlas of golf which was originally published in one thousand nine hundred seventy six and tom doak the confidential guide which was published published originally in one thousand nine hundred three so anyhow ran comes to us to ensure that golf magazine and golf dot com publishes the highest quality course rankings in the industry and we couldn't be more thrilled to pick his brain today about all things golf courses and architecture saran fault welcome to the golf dot com golf magazine team. We're delighted to have you onboard and i was just doing the math in my head. You have been thinking critically about golf course architecture for about forty years. I know you're only forty years old but <hes> for about forty years which is not an insignificant amount of time. What started started this passion for architecture. Well you're right. I'm a little grumpy that you've dated may but years old and to be honest honest what started it was my mom. Who's a non golfer. She gave to my father christmas. In either nineteen seventy six nineteen seventy seven a book entitled the world atlas of golf in some of the greatest writers of all time contributed to two at herbert ward when peter thomson etc and they were just you know some stunning hot diagrams they broke apart holes in hole by hole analysis. They talked about the history of the game and <hes> <hes> three morissette <hes> brothers just became enthralled <hes> with the subject matter derived from that book and is our interest grew. <hes> dad was always a a golfer by nineteen eighty-one. We went on our first real family off trip and it was split. Evenly we lived grew up in richmond. Virginia was split between pinehurst. I north carolina not a four hour drive to the south and then we went on down to harbor towns pinehurst you know has a mythical reputation reputation and it lived up to it despite the fact there's literally only one water hazard and it's one hundred and some yards off the tee on sixteen sixteen versus going to harbor town which had a lot more things going on. There were railroad ties at some of the greens slot of water hazards dramatic use of the wetland. I'm coming down seventeen and eighteen you know massive bunker at sixteen just all kinds of super a neat features in on the ride home in nineteen eighty. One you know remembering all the things we learned in the world alyssa golf we were just squabbling doubling in the back about well as harbor town better than number two number two better than harbor town and at that point we came up with a waiter review courses horses which was to compare the first timers to the first hole at harbour town and do a match-play second second third third fourth old and we didn't know it at the time and i was eighteen. I'm sorry i certainly couldn't articulate it but we were fortunate to go down that path because what what it did was it took the emphasis away from how we played that day or if we had a fast round or a slow round or particulars killers you know unique to that one day and it really made us focus on the individual golf holes and that has proved to be a great help nope going forward and then two years later against stirred on and from the world atlas of golf we were in the fortunate position to to go on a first trip overseas where we played turnberry royal dorna contain andrews and muirfield and this was in august first of nineteen eighty three and we were torn as to which was the best course between the four. My father ultimately joined joined royal dornoch for a period of time. I think i liked saint andrews. I've always been into the history my other brothers <hes> just thought turnberry was is knock your socks off gorgeous and we felt that muirfield was on the least distinguished land and therefore you're in our is it was the least distinguished four courses so we get home having jim jabir about it for at length and they're on the floor in the foyer was golf magazine's world's top fifty inaugural list and on the cover lover i believe is on the cover was mere field. Muirfield is voted number one right and that just send us into a tizzy we we're just what have we missed. How could we be wrong. What's going on between those two trips. We've never stopped analyzing and trying to dissect exact- what makes for fun and engaging golf what makes for great golf they haven't so that's amazing that you mentioned golf magazine's ranking of top fifty courses in the world at the time and one of your kind of big projects with us will be not only overseeing our panel of course raters but also those rankings of top one hundred courses in the world and top one hundred courses in the u._s. And what is it about rankings. What is a rankings purpose in your eyes. Is it supposed to be the definitive guide and says you know this is the number one course barn. This is the number ten course barn or is it a launching pad to provoke thought and discussion and isn't not supposed to be the end all be all. That's that's a great question. I have friends on either side of that fence and i personally have always enjoyed golf course rankings talking talking about rankings drilling down why of course as better than course the but the real purpose is to me it facilitates. Let's and makes you articulate the attributes that are important to you and that's what it is. It's meant to be a launch pad from making you understand. What makes you the happiest what courses resonate the most with you. Where do you find the most joy and happiness and of course rankings are just a natural way to commence that conversation and which so i find them to be enormously honestly healthy and beneficial to the sport for that reason i know growing up at the country club of virginia you know in the eighties you know it was hard to engage people in the discussion of golf course architecture there the books weren't out say for the world atlas a golf and it was hard to get people interested in the topic and nothing gets people talking faster and louder than golf course ranking oh for sure they really do trigger and motion if nothing else it's amazing every i personally i find that healthy now it's also it means the undertaking starting now with golf magazine comes with an immense since responsibility because to the extent i think in the past there have been various magazines that have talked about toughness and challenge alan j- you know at the end of the day you know they're more people in the united states today than there were at the start of the century nineteen years ago but less people people play golf and so some where along the line the message about what golf should be in the benefits of golf have become scrambled and i think that if we can move the spotlight over to why golf is so fun why it's so enjoyable double shift the conversation that we'll have a meaningful impact on the direction that architecture heads in the next twenty thirty forty years and you know that's an that's an immense undertaking and wonder we're not gonna do lightly and that leads me to a question that i am excited to ask you l. and saw just jump right in and ask it to you but have there been clear eras in golf course architecture design over the last one hundred or so so years have there been eras where tough challenging courses were the primary focus and then eras when minimalism took the president's or real estate took precedence and if so what were they at are they clear or are they not so clear. I agree with your premise. I think that they are we we are you wind the clock back two hundred and twenty years a lot of it hinges on <hes> technology when you were playing with the feathery golf ball all and eighteen twenties in the first whole saint andrews you would have would have dinner par five. I remember reading that in the world atlas off and then they got at a purchase came along in eighteen fifties more reliable golf balls went further you started seeing better designs like prestwick and of course at saint andrews and then when the rubber core haskell came out and round nineteen to you know big step up ford and architecture and then or into what was referred to still is referred to as the golden age of architecture and that ended in nineteen thirty nine i live in north carolina and to me it ended with the perry maxwell building old town club and winston and salem and then obviously world war who some other unrest we got in in the nineteen sixties into building very solid functional goth courses hogan's comment at oakland hills about bringing the monster to it's knees all of a sudden difficulty in challenge <hes> became these prized virtues so i'm really wasn't surprised if you came up to a green and you're two hundred yards out. Your bunk is bunkered left and right. You know you had to execute a set prescribed shot got in order to be successful and you know to me you can sit on a range with your body and figure out which of you is the better ball-striker golf needs to be something far more engaging than that otherwise again just stay stay at the range and and that period in in the sixty seventies ultimately when the economy turned golf very much was tied to real estate all the way up ah i would say about to nineteen ninety seven and you know another huge event occurred that year which was <hes> again i think it might have been on the cover but in nineteen ninety seven course debuted in golf magazine's world top hundred that most people had never heard of and it was called sand hills golf club in nebraska in the pictures were absolutely stunning and this was clearly entire hire different brand of golf then the rigorous difficult testing golf that had been trumpeted it for so long as the ultimate. This was something far more at least to me. Inspiring c consider that a turning point a significant tanning plant absolutely stake in the ground turning point shortly thereafter specific dunes followed and then just as slew of <hes> do like the term minimalist courses <hes> would follow and of course you know my kaiser started building them from nova scotia to tasmania to everywhere and the whole sport was elevated and what truly was you know. Dream golf was is redefined and reimagined according to you where it ran more said makes a great golf course great. How long do we have yeah. There's there's a nice man in england lauren smith and he writes a monthly newsletter his his simple answer is the joy to be alive factor and if a golf course makes you happy to be alive then in his eyes that constitutes a great golf course and i i really like the simplicity of that answer now in terms of the things that make aac me happy and that would fit that criteria i use golf as primary form of exercise and as a primary form to reconnect with nature so clearly. I'm after playing in a housing free. Some you know so earlier <hes> the batter and then i i wrote some things that that were important to me. You know one is it has to provide engaging puzzles to solve so you're you know you're fully fully you know as you play tennis number two. You are fully engaged. Whatever your issues are at home or at work or with your children that you you know hopefully they melt away and you are really zoned in on how to tackle the challenges that those greens leans present golf is a form of escapism. You know to make you happy and to relax and you just can't overstate the the value. Oh you in something like that and you think a main driver of pulling a golfer in is the design of the course like if the if the course is boring or repetitive or doesn't offer a lot of shot values or doesn't let your imagination run wild then that leads to not pulling in the golfer as as well as as of course it is that is that the primary driver of that that's exactly right. I mean if you're not if the course doesn't engage did you and ask you to the sixth royal melbourne dogleg to the right if you can carry this diagonal bunker and stay stay on the inside of the dogleg. You have a clear shot into this elevated drain. Of course it's a real risk reward. Whether you wanna flirt with this massive bunk raymond side of the dogleg most people had to the far outside of the dogleg which then means they have their approach out has to carry one of the deepest green side bunkers. He's on the course and so you know as you tack your way around the course you're ask those sorts of questions time and time again. My favorite courses in the world don't feature water because the purpose in trying to take all except a risk can't ah can't be so disproportionate that you're you know brutally <hes> punished from ever attempting to architect needs to woo him <hes> to essentially make a wrong decision and only later. Do you realize that on that day he tricked you and that makes you want to go back at the idea. There are plenty of people who love golf way more than i do and they would go out and play a a five hour round on bowling alley straight fairways with bunkers way off to the left way off to the right and flat putting surfaces. It doesn't matter really where you hit. The ball and you're not really asked in questions. There's minimal strategy that honestly just just not cup of tea. It's not interesting to me so you know i would elect not to play in situations like. Are you need a cold beer many of them. Maybe that's why people on the course that's exactly right and so are there elements of design that almost always ruin a golf course in your opinion you know i think it was mckenzie. Who said <hes> cramped features produce a cramps and can that's certainly <hes> true threw. It can be narrowness. Attain usually applied very much has a place in the game but eighteen narrow holes roles where you really have no options where you're being asked no questions where you're not trying to hit to the left side of the fairway or the right side of the share way i think narrowness is the one killer and off and of course if you have homes left and right that can promote <hes> narrowness us over time you allows trees to grow in and thanks to start working against you so one of the great things in this century they had been the return to the fairways that are forty forty five fifty yards wide which were the norm in the golden age of architecture. You can now argue that. We're going to wide in some places but i would just say that. That's far better than dean. I think everyone who's listening who is of the male gender and who swings more than one hundred ten miles an hour. They're just all nodding their heads because once you do that and miss the swing the sweet spot by just a little bit who knows where that drive is gone so yeah. I think wide fairways are super exciting the trend have you played mammoth dunes at valley. I was just <hes> there three three weeks ago and you know it really fits kaiser's. There's bill perfectly. I think you would have so many people coming off that golf course with a huge grin face from having shot you know near a below their handicap the hazards of very handsome so you really feel like you've accomplished something but you know one of the things i a hate is <hes> hunting golf balls in tall absolutely and you know you really don't have that at mammoth so i just remember spying on my husband's face. He is one of those that just gets after it off the tee and if he connects with the sweet spot that drive see later it straight down the middle but if he doesn't he's hunting and so when he walked off that golf course he could not have smiled a bigger smile he was he found it so fun and i think the phone is definitely a characteristic that is more at the forefront of today's architects whether they're building something new or restoring something then it had been maybe fifteen years ago couldn't agree more fun is <hes> back on the menu i think front and center think with that comes <hes> variety -iety back i remember there was a great article trumpeting domin- benefits i think this is in the eighties cyprus seminal and marion ryan and just how important short par four was <hes> to off and it's great to see you know that being reintroduced reduced so i mean it's a very good time to be a golfer right now absolutely much more so than if you were starting you know suppose oppose. You're in your forties in the nineteen fifties or sixties hand site shown. You didn't have that much to look forward to again. It was really meant to be an examination on how well you could strike the ball and for a lot of people that still you know very important in which is great. I just think that there's a it's tough. If if all the courses were being built for the one percent that could hit you know long straight drives and hit house off to irons sports much more inclusive. So what are the three little known golf destinations that you laugh. Well you know one of the most interesting was old mentioned hampton which is about two hours. There's dead west of heathrow airport. It's a common ground course which means cadillac the right away and that you're not allowed to really you're not allowed to build hazards so they're no <hes> bunkers <hes> but the land has all these great rumbles and craters than it naturally so you know it's just this open huge sky open expanses feel and for instance when my wife was with me she started doing cartwheels down one of the fairways and she's not a golfer but she was just so struck by the handsomeness of i <hes> i'm relaxed atmosphere that she was truly just caught up in the moment and that that's that's neat to see certainly to me. One of the the the definitions of a great golf courses that you would want to be on property there without your clubs in hand you know this. It's an environment where you just want to spend time in the educational thing about old mentioned hampton is goes to show you that a lot of the shaping shaping that was done and golf course construction in the nineteen eighties nineteen ninety s you know the these courses became too stylized ran end that man's hand was too heavy on the land and that you had no real sense of where you were had no real sense of place and so a stripped down chorus like old mentioned hampton found to be extremely rewarding on a number of different levels and other <hes> great course to a a is culver academies in indiana. It's a nine hole course built by some of the hottest architects in golf right now and they've been dead for about seventy years and theodore moreau. If you read anything about los odia uh-huh west bend culver academies these architects have really their star has risen dramatically in the last <hes> ten years in the neat thing about culver is they were going to build eighteen holes but they only built the best nine holes and they were going to wait for a better economic time to finish it but all they ever did was build these men great holes and so you know you know you certainly don't have to play eighteen holes to have a gram time in culver represents that in a way that made them ahead of their time time because of this phenomenon recently of nine hole courses and i guess mostly par three courses but really taking a closer look at and what is so vital that we build in eighteen hole par seventy two golf course. Maybe it's not actually that's such a great point and i am. I'm reading a absolutely captivating book by peter lewis. Who's a historian for the are entitled. Why are there eighteen eighteen holes and he says an eighteen hole course he uses his word is a pre determined course you're going to go to a property and you're gonna defined eighteen holes and he refers to you know he goes back in time and he starts talking about muscle borough starting off as a or leaf links starting office office five holes and there was muscle burr which i started five holes and it became sick souls and became seventy dollars m game aide whole nine holes and it wasn't until nineteen nineteen twenty three. I believe that there were more eighteen hole courses in the u._k. Then there were other forms really you know they're still yeah. They're still bill twelvefold shishkin. I love the idea of going back to you know he makes the point that when they were trying to layout golf courses they just tried to find the driest land the firmest land and then the coolest hazards and if that land would support five five holes great support twelfth grade and i love that approach the u. k. You can still find odd number holes here and there air. I wish you know one of the problems and the reason there's a resistance to it. Here's people get wrapped up about their handicap and needing to put him scores scores into the gym system and all this and that's a limiting factor i think much to the loss of the game and i still get questions the first question i get when i mentioned the thirteen par-three course bandon or the seventeenth hole par-three course at san valley or now you know the ten whole perfect course at cabot is why eight why not nine or eighteen seventeen holes like that's strange instead of saying. Oh tell me about them. That's generally the first reaction so i think it's going to take take a bit for the every day golfer to really understand why it's not so vital to or not understand it but not be so perplexed by it like why it's not so vital to have an eighteen hole or nine hole track ultimately will take them in like my kaiser to just do something gene <hes> different people go. Oh my gosh. This is so much more fun. I'm glad they didn't try and cram in an extra six holes. I just love these twelve holes. You can count on me coming back because they had such a great time. I think it'd be you know especially. You know what this country needs is more golf closer to your home. Yes so you know we we all get to go is things are going well on a you know one big golf trip a year and that's wonderful but really for golf to the embedded in your life. You need to have a really neat cool place somewhere. Within you know fifteen twenty thirty minute drive of your home and i for one you know if it was an eleven hole course or eight hole course i would be quick to embrace it. Exactly i mean don't don't go stamp eighteen holes on it ready willing to accept. What's there so what's that third little known golf spot that you love well you you know i always think you have to answer questions that you do have to <hes> vote with your feet in the course that i may have played as much as any course in the world is as newcastle golf club in stockton about two hour drive north of sydney australia. It's very you know it's a plain jane. Jane clubhouse in an asphalt parking lot and you had no idea the fine you're about to have but it's set through these <hes> sand dunes and they're they're about one thousand plus yards removed from the pacific ocean. You never see the pacific at all <hes> but it's it's great roly poly <hes> land in the bunkers. Have this really neat feature. Which is the floor of the bunker. Greenside bunkers actually slopes oops slightly toured the putting surface oh and that so the bunkers and they're not gorgeous like at kingston jason heath a royal melbourne at all plenty of people <hes> go up and aren't <hes> dazzled the aesthetics but the bunkers jonkers play is true hazards because it's as you well know from downhill lives very hard to get nice loft and a clean contact and have a ball popout and especially if you've shortsighted yourself you have you know you have very little chance of recovery and and i love the fact that a hazard once again plays as a hazard i wish more modern architects would consider sitter doing something like that as a way to fight off the advances in technology initially i'm like no. I wanted to be as easy as possible. So where are you off to next. What's next on your calendar. My big trip of the year is at the end of the month and head the two ballybunion inland which will be a real treat. I haven't been there anti the course and over twenty plus years so you can imagine super super keen to do that and then <hes> flat glass cow and go play machrihanish macro hanish dunes and then over to dial jura. I'm wrap up the trip at a new course called arts and and then <hes> fly home so very cool very recall you definitely find ways to make it happen and and get out there so <hes> we'll be living vicariously through your travels. It is sneak one nice thing about macaroni and jones when it first opened <hes> it was pooh-poohed. <hes> is just being too hard. You lost too many off balls and then over the time they've gotten control and they've beaten back some of the sea grasses and stuff and and what i love ashley with all the social media stuff is that as they've done good work as they've made the course much more fun people have kept an open mind and are now praising the place you know which is which is nice to see how you know oftentimes social media can go against you but that's an example where very much have seen a title title change in opinion so i'm. I'm quite keen to give it a go perfect. We'll be watching closely and thank you so much for taking the time into chat with us and we're all thrilled to be able to call you a colleague and we'll be having you on more often. It's a great honor. I mean the golf magazine world top hundred it. It is a noted a couple of stores played a huge role and our appreciation of architecture. We will not taking responsibilities short commutable care.

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Fully Equipped | Titleist's Director of Metalwood Development, Stephanie Luttrell

GOLF.com Podcast

1:00:21 hr | 1 year ago

Fully Equipped | Titleist's Director of Metalwood Development, Stephanie Luttrell

"And welcome back to fully equipped. I'm cambrian joined with john wall. John what's going on today but presser brilliant <hes> happy happy monday as record this actually the first time we recorded on a monday <hes> hope not too crazy for you. Where are you today. I'm off the road this week. Thankfully i'm <hes> i'm back on the road next week for for chicago when the b._m._w. Actually going to be doing more. What's in the bag shoots. Hope people out. There have had a chance to see the new redesigned. What's in the bag for golf magazine. We've we've tried to make more visually appealing by literally taking everything out of the bag. Thankfully the players haven't tried to club love me with one of their seven earns when i've been taking everything out but i do. I think they look awesome. So we're gonna go knock out a few more of those chicago. What about you were yet. I am down in that old miami. That's actually home base for me. It's been home base for a little while. It's where i'm from but <hes> had knocked the scottsdale relocating there permanently here soon so the tightening up some loosens and on that in the bag yeah. I loved that creative on that. I'm sure you're not making any friends with any caddie so you don't actually caddies have been really cool. I actually really worried when it came to to pulling everything up when i kind of told them what we were doing. They all seemed to be on board with it now. One of the things i will say that i have tried to do when we started. Doing i mean these. We knocked out four. What's in the bags earlier this season at colonial <hes>. I took a photo tim of every single item in where it went in the bag because i i was deathly afraid of putting something in the wrong spot the player going to grab for not being there and blaming it on the caddy and you know academy ends up getting fired because something that i did. Are you really that way. I'm not superstitious but i am a little stiffness. Yeah i was just it was one one of those things where i was so worried about screwing up once we took everything out that i took photos of everything in where it all went just make sure got back in the right spot going back after when i competed <hes> the first thing i looked at when i hit a bad shot was if i had a club in the wrong slot or if i had something this place in the bag because that happened to be that yeah it was. It's just this weird psychosis. It was one of the first things i did. There's gotta be something that through my energy off on that swing or that shot. I don't know i'm pretty crazy but i was always always incredibly meticulous about where things went in my bag and the cleanliness of my golf clubs. Maybe that's why i'm here die these days. I don't know yeah i think inc i am to some extent a little golf equipment o._c._d. But minds more with keeping my mic clubs clean. I remember from a really early age. Especially mike my dad even telling me and even golf instructors about just trying to keep your clubs clean especially the grooves. Just don't want to get anything really packed in. They're just a mess with the with the spin rate but yeah that was my thing. I didn't care if the club got the wrong slot but but definitely wanted to make sure that they that they stayed clean so i couldn't blame blame it on the groups so what's on the agenda today john. What are we going to share with. Our listeners so we're going to kind of dive into victor hogan's most recent equipment change in y. Golfers should be paying attention to it also going to take a look at ben simmons unique equipment set up that he's had for the last few weeks and a piece of gear or that that has been on the rise especially on the p._g._a. Tour this season club of the week. We're gonna look at j. T. the postman postings stamped voca wedges and kind of get into you know it is it seems to be pretty easy if you wanted to do a weinstein or wedges wall so get into some listener questions this week a lot of really good questions <hes> <hes> just the same as last week and we're also going to do an interview with <hes> with somebody that i'm really excited to talk to stephanie. Latrell who is title director of meadow woods development for there aren't department. She has a lot to say about the way they go about. Designing golf clubs yeah so just circling back to the first topic here victor hoaglund <hes> <hes> where where are we at on that. I know that he had some ping ping items in the bag. Obviously on a pink deal <hes>. I've got -ssume that he's probably rounded out that bag and completed it with uncrowded. He has so going back to the u._s. Open at pebble victor hoefflin did something that i i would imagine very few players i would be willing to do. He tested a new ping. G fourteen ls t._d. L._s._d. Is the low spin version of the fourteen ten from ping and then he also tested a split set which i would say was pretty unique setup. It was i blade at the top of the bag in the four through six irons and then i to ten in the seven three pitching wedge typically i think most players especially those that no pink products would expect to see the i two ten which is the more forgiving version at the top of the set in the long irons and then in the scoring clubs having the i play but victor actually told me that he found a a slightly lower more controlled launch with those tens in in the mid destroyed irons so use that setup actually put those in the bag back on wednesday right before the first round. I still can't believe he did that at the u._s. Open ends up with the lowest score by an amateur in u._s. Open history so it seemed to work out pretty well for him that that last minute change but he's been using that setup since then until the week of windham when he went to a full set of the two tens so he removed the blade four through six now. He has ten four through six so tim again players chain irons all the time on tour but i think that this is a really interesting change because of the irons that victor is using no he. He is a a elite ball striker already in short time on the p._g._a. Tour he was an elite ball striker in college but he is using an iron that that you and i both agree is more in the player category instead of the player the better player category just because it has a wider soul and thicker top line. It fits a lot of players this. This is definitely an iron. I think that more players when i say players i mean recreational players should be taking a look at <hes>. Do you agree. I only agree you know respect. We had multiple opportunities opportunities to work with both elite <hes> l._p._g._a. P._g._a. champion store players as well as just your everyday offer. This is a product that seems to touch huchon basis so to speak <hes> it's such a versatile product <hes> offers the perimeter weighting it offers <hes> great performance characteristics <hes> as you mentioned the spin control to spin tendencies tend to be <hes> a little bit lower than some of the product out there that are available which in many cases is a good thing thing for some players <hes>. I remember having worked with sandy lyle doing some work <hes> he had. I believe it was strict on this is going back a few years ago actually prior to the i._t. Not ten release and then we ended up finding that i tend to form that you really liked gamed for a couple of events <hes> and then the other player that comes to mind is actually cristie kerr <hes>. She's not on an equipment deal with anybody right now. <hes> she'd been playing a game or set but she had loved for a couple of years had a lot doc excess <hes> those groups are at the point now where they're they're just not gonna work <hes> or game so she needs to replace that set of iron and we ended up <hes> the icy ten product made the shortlist that actually made its way into the bag <hes> she was able to get them in the bag. She did revert revert back to the old game or set no spoken about many times on the pod <hes> tour players creatures of habit when it comes to equipment. It's amazing how many times they gravitate back to what they used used to play just out of comfort and confidence <hes> but it's a product that we fit a lot of different players of different abilities and skills steps into and it brings up the the topic of perimeter weighted slightly offset irons for twelve players. You know if you went back thirty years you wouldn't see ping is susan brain many tour players bags and so what's changed. I think you're gonna see more and more of these types of products into players flags especially with these younger players that i didn't i think i do i think that they grow up with without as strong of an equipment vice towards those muscle blackboards clubs obviously as they start to improve their skill set and develop and get better they start to use muscle back <hes> forge products but i do think that we're gonna look at your and speak using perimeter weighted irons like we talk about my or a couple of weeks back with tiger using affirmative waited <hes> driving you know the fact of the matter is if that if that product is going to give them one shot oughta tournament that would have gone in the water but now it's going to be in a playable position. There's just too much money at stake on those methods shots to give up performance performance benefits so i'd be very <hes> i would definitely anticipate that you're going to start to see some of these related clubs make their way into bags and more players. We've seen a lot of l._p._g._a. Players playing hogan tax not the tax pros at the regular apex iron <hes> a lot of success <hes> so you know that hardly an hiring that you would cope out for somebody that is a tour player you know just from me stereotyping standpoint but <hes> quite a few players play with these types of products of all you insure golfers out there. We tend to buy properties very strongly towards in top lines a little bit of offset minimum perimeter waiting. You may want to reconsider those ideas yeah and these these. I two tens. Tim and i know you've you've seen them. You've seen everything for that matter. They have a really good look. I i would also particularly say in in the mid short irons you know. I think whenever i get a player iron. Sometimes i go okay thicker sole thicker top line but but those mid short arns had a very compact look. They almost look s fifty five esque to me. I i think that's maybe why like him so much is because ping paid particular particular attention in my opinion to that better player who maybe once a touch more forgiveness. Oh yeah i can definitely see why player victor villains cab caliber is kind of taking to these irons. Why has a full set but yeah. I think amador golfers need to take a harder. Look at you not only to ten but also some of these other perimeter weighted clubs that are out there on the market right now. Yeah i mean perfect example comes to mind a couple of years back <hes> jesper parnevik jesper parnevik because one of the premier ball strikers in the in in the game even out on the champions tour and and what's more unique about the way that jessica places. He hits a lot a lot of different shots. I mean this guy is a shotmaker to the extreme he hits you know head high on one shot and then you'll hit it one hundred eighty even here on the next shot. He's drawing on shopping fate eight. You would think that a premier shotmaker like that is using you know forge muscle back irons that will you know enable that player to hit the most catalog. I don the broadest catalogue shops yet. He you know at the time that we worked together. He was using the king of the the cobra s._x. Product which is nothing has a lotta offset. It has hunger perimeter weight and when you know even so much that when some of my colleagues asked you know what he was gaming and they found out he was gaming enough six they were disbelief. They said he's playing this type of product. So if you have that preference towards towards the fourth must've accolades <hes>. I would probably say that you know you even open mind. Let the golf ball tell you what bets and and just let performance geiger decision-making still love that that jesper jasper still wears the the flipped up lid though one of my favorite looks i would never ever consider trying to copy him on the golf course but but he he can pull it off perfectly. I i still love that he has that look even now so <hes> so next up could be bent on and <hes> very interesting bag set up. You told me about share share with our listeners. <hes> exactly what ben ended up going to a couple of weeks back and it's obviously stayed in play for for a couple of weeks now yes oh ben is one of the few the only other player i can think of that had the same setup was was peter you line but but during the open championship ben chose to go <hes> driver tidal title st s. three and then drop straight down to a you five hundred to iron now rush i can get because you're your blustery conditions. You want to keep it in play. You want a a utility iron the bag it was a pretty popular option but ben decided to keep the same setup for for or another start at windham he he still dropping from drivers straight down into that utility iron and again. This is very unconventional. No fairway woods whatsoever no hybrids bridge to speak of it kind of got me thinking tim about what kind of player would benefit from from this setup i now. I actually think i would it because i am a terrible. Fairwood player doesn't matter if it's from the tea or from the turf. I don't know what it is. My turf interaction has always been awful. I i think i could actually benefit for something like this kind of a player. Somebody was saying hey. I want to try a similar setup to ben on. What's the player that you'd say okay. You would kind of fit this. Is this unique setup curious to hear what your typical attack anglers. Jonty ten on a good bit are you. You hit down a good bit on the ball. You know i think i am a superintendent's dream. I just sweep the golf ball right off the turf. I always have and i think a lot of it's just i do not compress the ball like i used tune in most of that just comes from not practicing anymore and having kids in <hes> just life in general but but yeah it's it's just i've always been a sweeper in and i have never been able to find a fairway wood that i've been able to hit consistently again off the tee from the fairway so that's why whenever i see somebody with just a driver and the utility hiring them like yeah that that sounds like my my wheelhouse right there so there are a lot of different directions. We can go with this topic. You know first and foremost hitting three woods can actually be more challenging hitting drivers number. One drivers are teed up. You never hitting them off. The ground <hes> that's number one number two if you looked at half the surface area of the sweet spot of the driver and compared that to the total surface area of the faith in many cases the sweet spot of a driver may be almost as big as the overall surface area of the three would face so you know it's gonna make it more difficult to hit another thing to consider is that you're going to strike at three with lower on the face and when you look at the face of any metal would club. You've got bolden role so when you look at the bottom part of the face you're going to have less lost on the bottom part of the face than you do in the middle of the face so hitting it well on the face meets at fifteen degrees really turned into more like a fourteen degree right. You're just trying to make me feel better for being a crappy fairwood here we would player. Tim and i and i appreciate this. I appreciate you doing this for me. So allowing huge on a lot of people really struggle with three wins and if you look at the utility over three would what are they used for their used for teeing off in alternative to a driver so you can't hit a driver. Well maybe three hundred and get a little bit better performance a little bit more consistent performance out of it but as we just stayed with all the factors i mentioned are actually pretty difficult to hit in relation to the driver these days with the size of these he's driver heads <hes> and then the other reason to use the three would we would be to go into a green on a par five and try to hit it into <hes> for your slower speed players at three was going to be the item they're banging down the fairway to try to get as close to the green as possible <hes> but the problem with the slower speed players is not necessarily launching high enough or with enough spend keep the ball all airborne and what they actually find that they had five woods farther than three woods especially off the debt so what you end up with with a three what is very very thing dealer use case in many instances if you're a good driver of the golf ball and have confidence <hes> there's not really a need to hit it off the t- <hes> and then you look at the difficulty of hitting a three wood it off the ground <hes> relative to you know utility iron hybrid. What have you <hes> and they're definitely a little bit more difficult. <hes> one thing i see a lot of players there's folks that have a lot of <hes> downward angle of attack or in other words they hit down steeply <hes> folks that hit down steeply on the ball and the struggle a little bit with three what's just three wins five hundred and seven zero k for those folks but three ones are a little tough because they're hitting down such a sharp angle. There's so little loft. There's so little oh forgiveness even when they hit it in the center of the face they can't really get it airborne to where they're able to carry the ball of different distance so it's not <hes> it's not surprising into here of a player going without a three in their bag set up <hes> i would also think that a lot of it has to do with the core set up. You know one of the courses demanding out of his game <noise>. Oh yeah probably that's probably into it right. Whether it's yeah such field was was under seventy two hundred yards i mean there really wasn't a need for him to domes- with this setup all that much i. I don't know if they'll have this same setup going forward but i thought it was interesting. The fact that you've got another guy out here with the driver going straight into to iron to continue the benon talk here. He has another piece of gear that that's it's been on the rise. This season on the tour and that is a multi material putter shaft so ben is using l._a. Golf's ozanich zik teepee one thirty five putter shaft now. This is the same brand that bryce into shambo uses the same golf brand and the big thing and i've talked to bryson about about this is is reducing deflections shaft affliction so really again trying to put this in layman's terms and tim. You might be able to do this better than i can but but really trying trying to stiffen up that shaft so it doesn't move at all so you're able to keep a more consistent face as you're going through it impact so you're not doc and get as much open or close again with golf's not only is it really stiff but they've also tried to really bump up the feel so it doesn't feel super board i. I can't believe i'm talking about borghi putter shafts but you know not only l. a. golf doing this but we've also seen this year and i think bryson has a lot to do this because he he had a lot of success last year with this putter shaft. We've seen barney adams in his breakthrough. Golf technology with the stability shaft odyssey's had stroke lab k b s. I saw prototype type earlier this year that wasn't what material but they changed greatly changed the step in the shaft to try and make it a little bit softer in the tip and then of course you've got a couple of others out there as well but but you know we don't really talk a lot about multi material putter shafts especially when we're at a golf you know a recreational golfer. We're typically going in there picking up a putter off the rack and it's just got your standard step steel shaft so tim. What are we right now. I feel like multi material putter. Shafts are starting to become a thing and we need to we need to kind of discuss them and maybe some of the benefits in why golfers should potentially henshaw consider going out and testing something beyond a new putter head. Maybe a new putter shaft yeah so this is something that that definitely i'd say about three or four years back started to emerge on the radar of different club designers and companies <hes> you look at dr they have four different type of putter shafts available all of their shower or carbon fiber and they have different flex profiles just like what you get impulsively clogs when you look for feel and it does impact launched a little bit when you say deflection and we're talking about the bending of the shaft specifically with golf clubs <hes> we're talking about at the club is passing through the impact area. The deflections or the bending united created is almost always where the club had is in front of the handle of the club or in other words. The chef is spending forward target right. You'll see you'll see in pictures pictures and images where the shafts spaghetti noodles bending towards the target. I assure you that that's more due to the camera speed that that the photograph was taken but suffice to say almost every single shop in a lead deflections or forward bending property at the moment of impact <hes> so for the act the case of the acura products you no. It's about changing the way that that shop is bending towards the target and providing different field all of these technologies just mentioned actually do slightly different do things so. It's not like they're all trying to tackle the same design question in general clutter design has gravitated towards hi emma why m. y. Meaning moment of russia the concept there being when you don't hit a ball in the center of the face how much energy does it lose and how much stability the clubhouse and how much twisting does it have when the club is twisting obviously so much about putting relies on the square from the base and if the faces twisting open so to speak or close that it has potential of helping push the ball off the intended line so making sure that the putter head isn't as stable as possible is very important and making sure that when you hit it on the heel of the total of the potter cutter you're gonna get a similar energy transfer in the middle of the face means that you're gonna hit the same distance <hes> so with the emergence of all of these hi. Hi is alive or heads. <hes> mass has gone up and so with the total weight having gone up on these products what they found is some of these older putter shaft designs sounds like a number of the bull's eye chace that were used with that little fluted neck. There was a lot of flexing those shops and they just don't work when it comes to <hes> these heavy head design fine so we've seen players you know <hes> i know quite a few players that actually you see taper chefs in their putters. <hes> so what we've seen is putter shops have gotten heavier in stiffer and heavier and stiffer now. They're two different schools when it comes to the stiffness and in weight of the putter shah <hes> you speak to a lot of really really cutters and they actually like to feel a little bit flex. They like you know they tend to gravitate towards lighter. <hes> likely mentioned a few weeks back with tigers gamer putter bidding three thirty five gram head that is abnormally light in today's <hes> into relative today's putter design so when you look at really exceptional i think that they tend to gravitate towards the stuff that gives them in the backfield but not the best forgiveness <hes> but obviously most players out there would benefit from the most forgiveness even if it negates a little bit of feel so when you look at these putter shops that have been designed. A lot of them are targeting that concept of too much election in the south throughout the putter you know throughout the strove case in point instability shop with bonnie items. I remember speaking bonnie a couple years back when he was in the prototyping process ability shop and the whole concept there is they have an internal structural mechanism knocking them right at the point of shop that tends to flex in the concept there is they're trying to prevent it from flexing talking with putter you know putting being so dependent upon squaring the faith of your product to the target if you have access of flexing or talking in the shop that would be very difficult to repeat square square club base over and over and over so the idea there being make the shaft stiffer make it more stable make it resistant to any twisting courses and if you'll be able to produce the same face angle more often <hes> when you go into the stroke lab products. That's more of a wait place so they're trying to figure out how to redistribute wait. How do we get it out of the middle of the club and redistributed to the end and to the handle <hes> and once again that's kind of an emo play there <hes> by taking the weight out of middle putting it towards the perimeter. You're helping increase the ability <hes> a lot of players report that it helps steel <hes> then you kinda go back to the old counterbalancing argument <hes> so we're we're seeing a lot of research <hes> in the putter shaft world. I know the folks over at oh bomb. <hes> chefs have worked on a very very high end putter xiao now that i'm not sure if they'd release markovic leave they did about a year ago <hes> we actually helped us system <hes> in the concept for how to how to best design that product but suffice to say with most players out there when it comes to putter shafts <hes> there are some things out there are some products out there that are available that can help you with your cutting and relates to potter show <hes> we do carry a celebrity chef that all of our troops back locations and and it really boils down to what what what are you going to get good performance. Do you see the performance benefit that that specific product is designed to help you see <hes> and then obviously the metrics. What what what are you seeing as far as the numbers when you get it out onto the golf course. Are you making more parts. I mean at the end of the day. That's what it's all about right exactly and i it just listening. Do you talk about putter shafts for people that don't know this is. This is your wheelhouse putters putter fitting. I mean literally. We could just let you go in and i'm pretty sure sure you can do an entire podcast on probably do weeks. I mean it was kind of ever ending search for why i stunk at putting i would. I saw so many putter instructors throughout my time trying to compete that told me that my my stroke. Was you know you have one of the best turkey never seen you're in the top one percent of all tour players that we'd never tested and then the question always became well. Why don't i make anything and as i started the delve into the equipment aspect of it. I realized that there's a lot more to putter fitting then the traditional you know how long should it be. What lying or should it be in head shape you like and so then once we start down that rabbit hole you know as as charles how alluded to in the first part that we did <hes> when you go down that potter pop when you go down that rabbit hole. It's pretty deed rabbit hole. You probably against the other side it definitely exactly. Let's say you can probably end up just getting lost in there in the dark yeah so for those folks that are listening the overarching thing i i would. I would recommend here. Is there's a lot more to putter fitting than just simply picking the right head shape as far as so many designers focus on aesthetics six because that is at the point of sale tends to sell but a lot of that has to do with the fact that most consumers just aren't educated about the technical aspects of design nine and i would advise anybody if you wanna see immediate impact to your scoring. Go get fit for your putter <hes> right away. You're going to see those scores drop. It's not like you're gonna gonna have to worry about adjusting to it so to speak <hes> the adjustment should be almost immediate and that's a piece of of the fitting puzzle that rarely gets talked about i think more now wow with with different putter material shafts and things like that where we're now starting to slowly talk about it but you know we always talk about driver fittings in iron fittings wedge fittings but rarely lead we talk about the putter which is such an integral part of the of the game i mean think about how many times you're you're going to be using nightclub. Hopefully not as not that many but but over the course of around it it is such an important piece and yeah go go to your go to your local tru spec if there's one near you get fit find somebody that can that can help you out but it it is very important so <hes> you know i kinda wanted to get into next club of the week. We started that a couple a couple episodes back doc. I'd be curious <hes>. What is the club a week. That's got near attention so far. I'm gonna have to go with with j._t. The postman post ins stamped stamped volke wedges. You know with a nickname like the postman you know aaron dill who is vocal. He's magician he. He's vocalist mr everything he in. My opinion is the hardest working guy out on tour because he has so many players using folksy wedges on a week to week basis racist but one of the things that he started to do years ago was to add a little bit of personality to wedgie started stamping down with with players. You know their kids names. Maybe were they went to school a funny for a movie and it's just kind of exploded from there in he. Has these almost works of art that i think you could hang in the liuw. There are some really cool ones that he has done over the years and and i think <hes> j._t. He has some really fun ones that i've seen he's got one with his nickname. Postman on their aaron has stamped out with a little pinhole stamp in a mailbox on on one of his wedges. He's had another one that says open on sundays as with the mail box. It is a fun way again to show your personality and i'm curious tim i do not. I'm going to start off by saying this one of the things that j._t. Is always a said on social. Media is hashtag play better. I don't feel like i'm good enough right now to have wedges with any sort of personalized stepping on it so i do not have anything but do you have anything stamp on your wedges on my current wedge that no i've actually have some new heads that when i get to scottsdale i think they're sitting on my desk and i can't wait to get my hands on them. One of the phil mickelson grind pledges from callaway mess around with that thing about a month back and i can't believe i haven't had it in play up until now like cheating out there so easy to use but i don't have anything on my current wedged. I'm this new federal wedge heads. I definitely will in the past. I've always been pretty basic. I'm a a big boston sports. Not stamping in different things regarding boston sports teams etcetera sure lots about titles titles titles lots of you know yeah yeah yeah yeah there you go but <hes> you know most interesting. I'll always go back to one of the most fun and cool wedge stamping things that i've ever seen remember a few in years back. I i can't remember what it was but it was robert. Strand really you go so it was damaged potter on the thirteenth or fourteenth fourteen poll and unfortunately it was ruled unusable for the rest of play because he got a little hot banged against the ground change the properties of the cutter so so he had to finish the event putting with his legend damn near one thing he almost one he actually came to twenty letters. During the it was wild. I couldn't unbelievable. I was watching the guy almost one in event coming down the stretch cutting with this wedge like who's ever done that on the fiji. Tour can't think of anybody <hes> but really cool the guy from titles. They stole his wedges on either monday or tuesday before the next week's event and do you remember what they stamped into that. Did you ever see that what they they did with him. Oh yeah but i want you to tell the story. This is an airedale special again so you have to remember it. This is all his creativity here so <hes> so they ended up camping in the back of the ledges something to the effect of chuck. Norris didn't use a either. Just it's so good. It's one of my favorites. It's so some people can do some really crazy stuff. You know you talk you spoke to call in last week and they've got breakfast items in their wedges so it's just one of those cool personalization positions <hes> <hes> that you know really make something unique to you <hes> i. I think it's a really fun thing to do. You got paint fill. You know the folks over in callaway golf in their in their tour department. I'm sure you've seen some things anthony is done. I mean he's saying master. He <hes> unbelievable. We have a fella named alex. Leave leave work for us a truce back and <hes> i gotta tell you i'm gonna get some pictures. I'm gonna post them on my end stuff and and share them with you this <hes> the just the craftsmanship on his work is second to none. He's done some work for some of our customers and <hes> mantis amazing but it's a really cool touch you you know you'd have a personalized piece <hes> and <hes> something that's really cool. If you're gonna get a custom wedge not stamp it personalizes paynesville make it look really cool exactly how you want to. It's a conversation piece and olive becomes a showpiece for ya you could almost i mean i look at what you can buy online nowadays. When it comes to stuff to work on your clubs you could buy your own setup in stamping wedges. I mean what would you need if you were if you were going to do your own d._i._y. For stamping so so it'll cost you a few hundred bucks to do it the right way <hes> but you could buy a stamp kit <hes> in which they have kind of like pre formulated stamps that you can use news <hes> the best way to do it is it's kind of like the peace that sets it's a electro-plating pizza or i should say electroplating. It's a it's a magnet that <hes> <hes> went engaged will keep the club had in place on the <hes> the post so that it doesn't move around obviously when you take a hammer and and unstamped piece to the club banging on it there's a chance that the club could slip or fall or what have you so <hes> use some kind of magnetic <hes> backing to keep the club in place <hes> and then <hes> you have stamps kits that are available <hes>. It's really you know a couple hundred bucks. You can <hes> get your hands is on something. That's pretty neat <hes> each one of those stamps. If you wanna make a custom stamp that has you know your logo or brand or what have you <hes>. There are companies that will do that. Each custom stamp runs a couple of hundred bucks apiece two hundred twenty two hundred thirty dollars then to give you the proof <hes> but you know you look at abraham answer and he's got a special little mark <hes> you look at most of these golfers that are out there and they'll have their own brands these days and they end up making stamps <hes> or they end up making <hes> when stamps out of their branding logos you know it's just another cool little piece of personalized but <hes> you know it's be prepared that they're it's not as easy as it looks and you end up. Ruining a couple of wedge heads <hes> process so so so tr try it on your workout wedges instead of going and doing it on your brand new says what you're saying. I definitely wouldn't do it on your game. I definitely wouldn't do it on your new one. I would try on your worn out old. Ones get an act for or just leave it to the professionals <hes> and we'll take care of it for you might be a better idea to do that way so i think it's mailbag. I'm <hes>. I wonder what questions came away this week john yet. We got another another couple of great questions. The first one comes from andrew gentle who wants to know why do you think so few tour players choose hybrids and instead opt for furry woods or driving arts. There are a lot of guys i would agree this. He's kind of andrew got his pulse on. What's going on because i i'm. I am seeing a whole lot more driving nowadays out there when i'm on the road than i am hybrid so going back to the conversations we've had previously <hes> a lot of of hybrid setups are just a little bit more upright now. When you get to the tour level that's not as big of a deal because they can bend hybrids out there that being said i do not easy to bend and do you have to put the head into this bowl and then you put the entire head inside the mold into basically a club vending machine a lot of times. You'll have to heat hogle up with adjustable hybrids because of the way that adjustable sleaze interfaces with the the where the sleeves resides in head. It's not as easy to bend some one of those <hes> but you at the tour level they can bend those hybrids a little bit flatter <hes> but in general because of the the center of gravity properties of hybrids grids they tend to be a little bit more pro biased <hes> they're gonna tend to hit the ball a little bit higher <hes> and as we know with four players. I don't know of a single tour player that has i've ever met that like seeing poll too. You know no yeah the mini. I almost went right into clare the minute it goes left they. They're they're checked out so <hes> so being that it has a little bit more pulled property to it <hes> being that you know in general those things tend to go a little bit higher at their speeds needs hires not necessarily better. They have time controlling the spin on them. <hes> you know generally i think that speaks to why you see more high lofted fairway woods driving orange long irons and play out on tour the hybrids you get your substance remember cage h way i mean he had a bag full of headcovering good. Yeah you literally have like half a bag of hybrids. It felt like seriously now. Did you ever take a look at how those were now. They were crazy flat like you would've never seen a hybrid as flat as those as those hybrids everett's wear so to mitigate some of that left the made those things crazy crazy flat obviously cage as is is not a and then the other ones who you <hes> was why yang while yang also had a had a bag at quite a few headquarters in it and once again they were crazy flat and the idea there being <hes> those those flutter hybrids are gonna take the left out or at least try to take the left out but the average retail player doesn't need to worry about that especially if things most of their shots to the right <hes> but i think that that's a big reason why we don't see as many hybrids i don't or you know and why yang could pretty much use an entire bagga hybrids for the rest of his career because he took to how to count the giant. He took down tiger. I still any time somebody mentioned his name and his prime why yank and use whatever he wants. He could go out in use a shovel for all i care. He beat tiger woods. That's that's all that really matters. You can do pretty much whatever you want at that point and i remember the celebration of all time where he picked up a bag and held it over at. I going there but hey what he was a weightlifter. I i think he was yeah. I think he i think he was like an olympic a class weightlifter. I'm pretty sure but i knew i knew he was. I mean just you could see based on his stature. He was built like a tree trunk but but i think maybe that was why he did that or or maybe it was just sheer joy. I don't know but i do remember that celebration so what else we got this week question why john yeah. I really liked this next question. John on builder wants to know more about counterbalanced driver shafts in you know we always talk about different types of shafts. Especially drivers shafts we discussed doesn't johnson testing and and went deep on driver shaft testing but but counterbalanced driver shafts. This is something that that i would imagine not a ton of people. Although if you're listening to this podcast you probably do just maybe a little bit of a layman's definition on a counterbalance driver shaft is counterbalanced driver shop shaft designed that <hes> more of the math on that south is higher toward the handle end of the shaft the idea of there being that by taking math out of the end of the show that maybe perhaps the player can generate a little bit more speed definitely has a little bit different feel <hes>. This is a great question. I just spent quite a bit of time with gavin from the team at acura talking talking about this and it's you know it was definitely <hes> we we spent quite a good time. Deliberating on the benefits and performance features discounters balanced the shaft so one thing that i think is important to understand is by definition moving the the balance point higher on the shop is going to make that a mitre swing way and so if you're building to swing way that means that you're then going to have to add waiting into the head whether it be through lead tape tape hot melt or wait clubs and if you're adding that week back into the head counteract the counter-balancing effective the chef you're kind of undermining undermining the whole purpose of counterbalancing and in so doing that by adding extra math down to the head actually softening the shop too so i think it's important to understand what counter-balancing is <hes>. It's something to change the field so to speak for each player makes the head feels a little bit lighter. Step <hes> potentially. Maybe you can swing it a little bit quicker <hes> but if you then take that shop and try to build it to a specific swing rate and by doing so have to wait ahead you're kind of undermining the design concept there. <hes> you know what that's going to change. A lot of is the feel a lot of changes the feel of the way the shock feels to the player fire and that's all you know that's. That's something that's very very important. It's hard to quantity <hes> and it's hard to put a number on every player prefers i different fields whether they prefer heavier head whether they prefer lighter head when they prefer softer tip <hes> but i would definitely advise trying <hes> <hes> a counterbalanced driver shaft and in comparing it to a more traditionally <hes> designed fodder being what you get as far as performance for some players is it made definitely move the needle a lot one direction or another and for others. It may not matter a whole heck of a lot but the only way you're gonna tell by giving them a good test <hes> against something. That's conditionally designed with the numbers. Tell you <hes> assessing the way that feels and just seeing how it turns out at the end of that process why good questions this week. I'm <music>. I'm actually really enjoying the listener questions if anything because they they give something more to talk about and it helps connect to our listeners in relate this you now as we've said on every one of our our episodes what goes on tour level it's important to understand for the everyday claire what the pull out of that because some of it applies some of it doesn't apply and how's it applies specifically to you. I think that that's you know that's why we're doing. This is is to take all of this stuff happens on a weekly basis which are kind of special interest pieces and then apply that to how golfers are actually playing out on your golf courses around the country so yeah exactly and i think with that. Let's let's get to this week's interview. I think this is one that you and i were both really excited for for a chance to speak to stephanie. Latrell stephanie is the director of metal woods development for titles golf. Club are indy. She's a great player. She played at the university of michigan michigan and and she is. She's a very important role she. She's pretty much there for the development of of the metal woods at title is so really enjoyed getting a chance to talk to her. Here's interview well. We're pleased to be welcomed by someone who i believe is one of the brightest minds in the golf equipment industry. The director of metal woods development the titles golf club r._n._d. Stephanie latrell. Hey stephanie stephanie. Thanks again for join us on pod eight years so much for having me so i'm curious. How did you end up on the windy side of the equipment business a long road but you could say it was also a bit of a direct pass. <hes> i grew up around the game of golf with my whole family is a game golfers and <hes> i was fortunate enough to be able to play in college the university of michigan and and pursuing i was still fairly new to the game golf and so my father who owns his own business. It always told me find something that you love and safety can make a career out of that because it'll never virtually feel like work and i discovered that i was gifted at science and mathematics and that engineers designed golf clubs and i decided to studying mechanical engineering at the university of michigan and my passport after graduation was <hes> that was i hired a catalog company is and associated research engineer and and worked in <hes> motion capture studies in player characterization and then from there i was able to move forward board into product development with cleveland golf company and for three and a half years i was able to design all the products and every product category for their tour players vide saying david tom and and really partner and not only design and develop the products but also fit them for them and then from there <hes> i've been fortunate now to spend twelve years as the director of metal element for title of golf clubs focusing on the global driver fairway in hybrid it is element as well as <hes> tour products <hes> and it's been a joy and blessing to get to make products that i get to enjoy and others get to enjoy why that's great stephanie. It's interesting always here. How so many of us on this side of the industry with a r._n._d. Sitting in tech and to have some similar paths <hes> a lot a similarity to the path <hes> that i've had so far in the industry with mo cap and all that good stuff i i'm curious you know getting into the equipment industry out of golf where you much in your head in college <hes> or was it more just an interest in general math. It was probably just the challenge in understanding how equipment could could impact your plan your potential. I wouldn't say that i was a gearhead at that point in time. It's not as though i was researching which had designs <hes> had had the best technologies or or what different phones would do for different shots in playability but <hes> understanding physics understanding flights you know those the movement of the club and how i could make it more efficient and how i impact <hes> performance with something that was interesting to me. I'm curious. How did are you an finding a home. It title est my <hes> my boss <hes> <hes> cleveland golf company down who i he was our vice president of research research and development at cleveland's all time <hes> titlis has i believe been pursuing him to leave their department for some time and <hes> uh he made the leap over to title us and <hes> about three months into his tenure here with <hes> panelists he he phoned me up and he had just promoted me actually running never compromise putters over <hes> from an r._n._d. Perspective at cleveland and he said physics the engineering and putters is it's more more about design and it's more about look <hes> and he goes. You really would love to do metal with again wouldn't you. He told me that he had this opportunity. City and <hes> i went through the interview process and was fortunate enough to convince the other entities that title because obviously glebelands was fairly <hes> fairly new as well but <hes> they saw my passion for product they saw my passion and suzy hasim for helping <hes> all golfers <hes> strives to be better from the best players in the world down to the avid amateur golfers and <hes> it's. It's been great to be here and working alongside. Dan now works for him. I <hes> about sixteen years. What is i know. There's there's a lot of off hurdles that go into <hes> you have to clear before you can create a new product. What's the most challenging part of your job that no one knows about. The most challenging part of our job of is is to really demonstrate performance improvement. <hes> you know obviously we're working within the boundary conditions of <hes> the the u._s. e._p._a. Rules of golf on equipment <hes> but for us it's it's defining and understanding where those opportunities are to really push performance performance forward scale and it's critical and important to me and our team that not only do we put out a high quality product but we put out a product set performance and that people can see <hes> the demonstrated performance improvement with each generation of products that we launched so title was just released. Their new tia clobbered line banou iron products are hitting the shelves in the coming days. What tech is in the new products that you can talk about <hes>. How does that impact performance. What else can you say about the new gear that customers are going to be seeing <hes> very shortly here <hes> that he has to in the tier three hybrid really build upon <hes> the title of speech project that we launched slats year with the drivers in the fairways <hes> we look at each of these product categories individually and we design them individually and and address the performance. That's neat to the players and in hybrid. It's not all just about how far you can hit. It is about control and it's about long iron replacement and shot stopping power our <hes> we looked at what we had learned with the driver project and we saw that in removing active recall channel we were able to <hes> <hes> increase for lunch we were able to lower the center of gravity by taking that mass and redistributing it in the head as low as increase inner shifts and as we stepped forward into our research and development of our next generation hybrids which are now that he has hybrid. We saw that same opportunity existed with the hybrid category so by removing massive recall channel. We were able to free up that mess. It allowed us to spend our face significantly so it's sixteen percent center which may not sound like a lot but when you're talking anywhere from you know two millimeters with two point three millimetres down to one point eight meters this is significant change <hes> <hes> so we're seeing greater speed potential out of these hybrids but with similar launchings fence so we have great shopping power and control <hes> and the the speech chassis is really exceptional in terms of its look and design tom bennett who's my principal product manager. On my team. He worked closely with the tour. I developed these shapes and they really are the best looking hybrids we've put out ya. I'm very very curious to hear what the findings in the t._s._a. Project the overall findings in the general golfers terms were the the main finding that has applied into the t._s._a. Hybrid linus at the removal of that channel in in the thinning of buffets. Would you pinpoint it on that or something else. I'd say those two elements <hes> that exceptionally sin face <hes> we have a very very thin crown on our high rates <hes> the pushing of the inertia to be higher in these heads those not only will you experience more speed but you're going to experience means more speed more consistently <hes> and in hybrid one of the key parameters for us as well as to look at the inertia not only <hes> heels feels hell but to look at it high low up and down the face and for us to focus on that <hes> brings better launch and instability which is the key he advantage of hybrid overlong within the r._n._d. Process i'd be curious to hear over a title us how many different prototype projects so many different projects designed. Maybe in play at any given time or are you designing multiple concepts regarding a new hybrid design in parallel or kind of <hes> designing around one concepts involving time well we definitely have more powerful things going at one time <hes> and in the driver's category worry as an example <hes> this year. We added to products to the t._e._s. Line with p._s. One n. t. s. four <hes>. We launched last year p._s. S. two and t._s._a. Three were obviously looking at well. How do we continue to evolve and improve performance of those products for that product category and it leads to us developing shapes and then working through an integrating technologies <hes> hypica- -ly will have anywhere from you know four to six prototypes that are made of a specific product before we settle in on what that product is going to be and turn it into ah level product where the market that's great and you know i think overall creative process from you know getting together on a whiteboard figuring figuring where you want the next call to be all the way through to delivery of the product launches a very interesting time line <hes> in elaborations of where you just <hes> what you just said on the development of some of these products i think the general the listener out there would be interested to know what that general process looks like from whiteboard drawing going all the way to the the products in the shop. We have a really <hes> open department and that we expect and we want for the new ideas. He is <hes> for performance to come from any entity within our department and our r._n._d. Department currently consists of just under seventy five people <hes> and and that's grown a lot under a dance tenure i think when when i joined we were around twenty five or thirty people <hes> so over the past twelve years you can see easy investment that titles cough closest put into <hes> developing the best products <hes> where the starts though is that each of our our r._n._d. Associates <hes> they're able to submit new ideas and that innovation team takes those ideas and and works through them and says which one has some foundational merit which one looks like they moved the needle in terms of offering speed offering lunch reducing thin or other performance ornaments criteria like accuracy or fitting or customization <hes> and we focus on all of those categories and look in the and all of those areas <hes> <hes> and one where he will improve performance and endure ability of those new technologies then they come into my team or into morning and there's team on the ironside or kevin drew who worked alongside volvo key and we worked to integrate those technologies and really bring not only the performance performance that was realized with technology but also the acoustics that sounded feel <hes> then dust design aspects of these with <hes> tour your preferred shaping and finishing and we went through all of those details over a period of a couple of years <hes> and once we have that fairly solid and and we turn on the gas and we push it forward into production development fending where ran that multiple samples and a pilot and then komo four and in their production you know with all of your involvement in the driver line was launched last year and those are amazing product by the way congratulations and and and <hes> really taking a step forward with titles driver design you know a lot of general golfers out there are of the opinion that we're getting close to the limitation of driver designed specifically for speed speed and distance curious to get your take on on where driver designers now. Are we close to being maxed out. Are we ever going to be maxed out <hes> and if so so what are the focus is that designers have on driver products that help enhance playability. I think that there is always the challenge of how do we continue to deliver her speed and one of the greatest opportunities we have to still offer speed to players as i looking at methods to increase club has speed potential so obviously everyone's aware that the u._s. jay has regulated the war and characteristic time on driver <hes> so how do we continue to enhance hands off center hit performance to increase speed potential there as well as how do we get a player's swinging the club faster and that was really a very key element of the titlis. Let's be project for us and i feel like it was just kind of scratched the surface there in terms of what we think we can do and and our continued research show with our motion capture studies and hairdressing players and better understanding. How do we fit them to maximize their seed university any last year. You all launched a new concept line which was titleist version of kind of a concept car really ultra-premium materials <hes> sort sort of be basically being given if you could make the ultimate driver with a look like how much has the concept line made your retail products better in pushed the boundaries of what you all are doing in the mets department. I think that the conflict line really freeze up our engineers to think creatively creatively to think about what possible to just uncapped <hes> <hes> that the opportunities that could the some by looking at advanced advanced materials by looking at different construction techniques <hes> we haven't launched a concept driver in a couple of years our first one was the teen <hes> but but we have been able to push forward and launched several generations with marnie teams of concept irons and those platforms have absolutely lead toward great performance <hes> and have influenced <hes> what is now the t- series and the maximum packed technology <hes> so i think that that the way they approach our department to invest in really just unlock your brain to think about what disguise little and at what would you do. That's what concept judged for trinite incredibly freeing in it leads to better ideas downstream for the global line product as well obviously in your experience in the industry speaks for itself having worked with a couple of other manufacturers <hes> and worked all over different categories of cutters and drivers irons et cetera. I'd be curious what differentiates or what do you feel. Differentiates titles are and the approach from the other manufacturers worked for i think with titles <hes> <hes> this brand cares first and foremost about the player and helping the player to play better golf <hes> and as a golfer <hes> <hes> that's incredibly enjoyable effect that i know that we are obviously a business everyone's pushing for sales but at the core of our your strategy is about helping people to enjoy this game and helping them to play better golf and i love that and i <hes> strive to to impart that passion to my team and we're a team of golfers. Everyone here enjoys the game and wants to help see not only themselves like other gulf that sees a friends family and the golfing public played better golf is so is so much time in the industry and so much time <hes> behind the cad program. I i would be interested to get your take on the one piece of advice you would give to the everyday golfer there clinton. One piece of advice that i would give is <hes> to be fit <hes> you can unlock so much potential for performance citing customs set and swing will change in your swing willie volve and if you were fit you know five years ago eight years ago and you're using the same prescription <hes> don't consider that it's the right prescription for you any longer <hes> as you upgrade to new equipment and you see the performance games of that make up will naturally change so consider <hes> for for instance with the p._s. Hybrid line. If you have <hes> an older hybrid in your bag but you've upgraded your iron fence well irons. They're going further than ever before for <hes> in all likelihood you need to replace that hybrid that you have and find better performance than distance <hes> and that's what we're encouraging people to due to really understand that you take physiologically the steps that you take as a golfer and to recognize the value and being fixed. Thank you can unlock even better scores and in performance by doing that stephanie. We can't thank you enough for the time spent the day with us on fully equipped look forward to speaking with you you in the future <hes> when titled start to introduce more new products and <hes> thank you very much for your time. Thank you so much. Jonathan fletcher route for this weeks fully equipped. We'd like to think <hes> step in the a._l. Entitled once again for spending time with us on the pod and we're looking forward to talking gear with all you folks next week. Thanks for tuning in.

Golf john wall tim ben simmons golf magazine stephanie stephanie Stephanie latrell director acura windham chicago psychosis potter u._s scottsdale miami sandy lyle jesper parnevik cleveland cleveland golf company
Shipnuck & Bamberger Preview 2019

GOLF.com Podcast

49:06 min | 1 year ago

Shipnuck & Bamberger Preview 2019

"Hello. This is Alan ship. Knock back for another podcast, the knockdown. I'm joined by my partner in crime in rhyme. Michael bamberger? We just did a fist bump, it was the most awkward thing in the history of podcast, Michael thanks for doing this happy to do. So that's not even true. But thanks for lying podcast. That's not you either. But he he's grudgingly accepts it. As part of our new reality. We're gonna look ahead to two thousand nineteen season. But I should start by violating the listeners know of all the new and exciting things are happening at our place of business for those who haven't followed it closely in two thousand eighteen in the spring, Michael nine left, the mothership of Sports Illustrated and came over to golf magazine and golf dot com. Fulltime just those big deal. Right. We got hurt flooded. That's a good rougher. Not many will understand that you and I to it all worked out really really well for us. We had a great run with great people at Sports Illustrated, but were really in the right place for ourselves and and for the game. So and we've really truly had a we could not have had a better new honor than than we have a truly exciting times. Here. We are we the new issue, which is the February twenty nineteen golf magazine is is gonna hit newsstands at any day. Now, it's all it's completely redesigned it looks great. It's thicker paper that the dimensions of the magazine actually grew which is unusual, and we you, and I have been working on it in some way, large and small, and I know when things print is dead. But we're we're kind of return back the clock here. It's like it's like the eighties year golf magazine. We're we're investing in print. You know, I'm not sure print is dead. I'm not sure the wooden driver's dead. I'm not sure that six thousand yard courses are dead. You know lot of things. Have cycles to them. And I think the pleasure of having a beautiful magazine your hand is actually an eternal on. I think he's making a very very smart here. Yeah. I mean when when I go on on my plane flights, I take seven or eight or nine magazines, and I shed them throughout the trip. I find that very satisfying. I spent so much time looking at my phone, and my computer, I don't wanna do that. For pleasure. Give me something to hold my hands. You could book, but it's often magazine. Like, I am I dinosaur or other people into that? I don't even know it's hard to quantify when when you walk down the aisle in the in the in the airplane mostly screens, but I still like paper. I'm well completely with you that won't on surprised you. Let's talk about your your important story that you wrote about for this for this relaunch your refrigerator, Scott, Dustin Johnson in the cover, but in a manner of speaking the lead story's really yours about the death of the Guthrie figure Aref Amina from Iowa State had to get interested in. Story. How did that come about more? What were some of the interesting things learned one the way uncovering this incredibly rich story about a life that ended much too early? Yeah. I can say that. It's the hardest store ever done. Well, that's saying something because you've written some tough on cutting the the drudge suicide of LPGA star from some years ago. Yeah. Erica blast Burke. Yeah. That was that was tough. But you know, she made the decision in some ways she write she took ownership of the ending. And is also more time had passed. It wasn't quite as raw. You know? I was I was doing these interviews with Celia his family or loved ones as a couple months after after she was murdered. And so it was an allotment that her teammates. The first interviews as they had done. So, but really what I'd followed. It like everyone else had followed it, and it was a huge story for a day or two and it just kind receded in the background. And it was never I read some in fact, our colleague deal into chair. Some great stuff for golf dot com on deadline when it first happened. It was never clear to me. Exactly. Why her why then was a completely random was there more to it? So that was always kind of buried in my brain. But then as we are looking as February issue was coming together and so much time went into the aesthetics of design the layout. Someone someone at some points while we need like a rich well reported story to kind of anchor this. Restarted some emails went around. And we're trying to find a good story for someone to do wind up being me. And this idea just kind of sprang from that who wants to write something big. And what is it, and I kinda raised my hand. And so. I want to go to Iowa State and her, you know, her boyfriend, I was that was a really tough interview. I mean, this was the love of his life, and he was still kind of coming to grips with with having lost her her teammates or coaches, I went to Spain or little hometown of your family. And you know, she was just a really special person everywhere. She went and people love Thalia, and she was incredible golfer. She was a great student with a engineering major just an exemplary person every way and some ways it's easy to tell that story it it's it's emotional. But. You just you're celebrating an incredible person. But what would gave the story I think it's it's gravity was. I realized at some point I wanna know more about the alleged killer sky, Colin Richards, who's behind bars awaiting trial, and I decided I need to tell his story to kind of understand. He's twenty two just like the Leila's, and they were on such incredibly different trajectories and how how did their cross Pat her their past cross excuse me? And y and so reporting Collins life was it was a great challenge. He went speak to me from the jailhouse as I expect. He's awaiting trial just wanted anything. That's gonna get in trouble troubles lawyer when talk to me, but I did get his mom. I went I kind of traveled his his life. So that meant going to meth houses and aims and going to homeless encampments in the woods and go knows old schools knock on the door of some distant family Goan as little hometown of Coon Rapids, Iowa. It was really some interesting reporting. And it was a little, you know, my heart was beating a few times this knocking on the door of some sketchy places in in where I knew there was some people mixed up some bad stuff. And so it was it was not your typical golf story, but kind of telling telling his life story and how it's sort of spiraled out of control. In parallel with with Celia story, which is tremendous accomplishments since surrounded by love, and defined by chievements that I think I think it makes a story a lot richer more interesting. What was it like for Phileas? Parents got this beautiful daughter who's talented golf. They sent her. To our country with all its riches and opportunities with all the hopes in the world, and for that daughter comeback lifeless what could that experience have been like for them? It was hard. You know, I have I have daughters and talking to them it's impossible not to calm project your own emotions and into that situation. And is really the first interview they had done had a translator to help me because they don't speak much English. But just sitting there, the the mom she Miriam she's jazz, a kind of quiet strength about her. And I was amazed at how well she held held up. But sealy's father, Marcus, he he broke down a lot, and we were talking, and you could just see the the burden on he told me I'd been two months at hardly slept tease taken valium trying to get through the night. And but also there's a lot of laughs of a lot of funny stories in the course of this day long interview. And it was heartwarming and they're bringing out scrapbooks. And and day planners, and all these things that they've held onto to kind of keep her alive. And so I think it was cathartic for them. They were sort of touched that I had made the effort to come all the way from California and sit in their living room. And so there was those a warmth about it. But it was it was it was tough. It really was. And they're they're just really taken it one day at time. I mean, it's it's it's tough. They love the play golf. They they all play together as a family, and they always go with her when she practiced. And now the parents are they can't play anymore. They just it's too painful. So, but they feel close to her on golf courses in her memory. And so the there's this course, it Celia was practicing at that they go, and they just walk in twilight and no Marco's toy. That's where they go to cry. And so is really is really powerful experienced just to just to kind of be dropped into her life and same thing with, you know, talk. To our teammates. There was times that they were laughing. They couldn't even breathe because so many who just such a larger than life character. And so many funny things happened around her. And then of course, it was a lot of other kind of tears because she had touched them so deeply so it was it was a really satisfying story to write to celebrate her life and try and try and understand her death. And but it also it was kind of it was it was upsetting for me too. As an American to go over to Spain and see to you know to your question for a while ago. How how are they processing it? And for a lot of folks over there kind of crystallizes feeling that the US has become this dangerous scary place. You know, there's obviously a school shooting every day sadistically the per capita year murderer it in the United States twenty six times out of Spain. And I interviewed the mayor of this little town where Ilias from an. And he was actually a schoolteacher before that. And and she was his favourite student. It was really sweet relationship. And you know, he said in this town has been any violent crime here. He said, oh, no never. I grew up here. I've been the mayor for three years, I can't think of one incident of violent crime. We've ever had said when was the last murder he said the nineteen thirties during the Spanish civil war. You know, and. And so I was going to small towns in Iowa that were about the same sizes pointy McGill, but they're racked by drugs and violence, the opioid crisis and then throughout IRA methods still huge prom because one of the if you're if you cook meth yourself one of the most common in Greece's fertilizer, that's found in farms all over Isla. So the huge math problem. And that was really the issue for Colin Richards, the the alleged murderer, you know, he had a huge math problem in rewired, his brain. I think to the point that he just was not a functioning member of society. Clearly, and so to you know, I talked to the sheriff in this little town. And he said that the crime is gonna controllers there's this new term that I do my research. The the rural ghetto this been used describe parts of Iowa that are just the crime the drugs, the the decay, and it was really is really disheartening. Look at American society, especially in the contrast Spain. Where look it's a homogeneous rural. Place much like we're we're failure grew up. And so you can't say, oh, it's big city or it. It's because you have all this culture clash that's not what I is. And they still have problems. And so and then, of course, you extrapolate throughout the United States. So it was it was it was a heavy piece a lot of social science in. There's a lot of there's a lot of stuff that that that's prefer field from a classic. You know, golf story. But I think that that's why joy the challenge of. I think hopefully, you know, really get a lot out of it way. It's moving just hearing you talk about it. But it's also a lesser of of what we do we write about golfers for an audience of golfers and just sitting here listening to describe it already has been completely absorbed in her life and times. But the starting point, of course, is that she is a golfer, and and that's very relevant. I think also not that this is the point of of the tragedy of writing about about. Her her life and death. But one of the reasons we expect people to come to golf magazine and Gupta comments were gonna tell you something you do not know in it, how it might have tragic consequences and far reach implications. Like the story does, but might be just something like you're calling about tiger, and Phil and and the match that's a, you know, a different circumstance together. But the organizing principle is identical were writing about golfers for an audience of offers, and we're going to try to tell you something you do not know who's people's time his valuable, and we've got to give them a reason to patients, so let's let's shift gears here to something a little more fun you and I were both mind to go. What you got a little run down from all your traveling and didn't go, but I did go to the match and just for the quick minute on my own experience. There. I was on the golf course watching it and enjoying it. I knew they warn playing good golf. But it worked, you know. They're still Phil Mickelson. Tire woods. They're not good golf still pretty spectacular. I knew it wasn't. You know, there wasn't much chitchat. I didn't think that would be a tiger tiger being tiger. But I didn't realize what a disaster sill later. And by the way, I'm sure Mark Steinberg did neither because he was actually chatty and slightly conversation. With me on the golf course. Which you normally never is. So he obviously knows going, but anyway, but that's old hat. We've we've we've analyzed that. But it's about your com where you analyze the match. But also wears this thing going, and what does it say about as as, you know, part of the golf quote industry that were still so married to tiger fill all these years later going back to when I first reported the existence of the mats that it was never a one-off. I mean, these guys it's they created this LLC, and it it's a whole it's a whole business plan. They have and they're gonna take all over the world. It didn't even it didn't really matter. How this one played out there? Committed to this in the long term, if it was an utter disaster, then from a from a competitive standpoint, and or an aesthetic standpoint, maybe they would have rethought it, but I thought back nine actually those about hour and a half where it was really fun to watch. They both start playing well on the back nine it got tents. You didn't know who was gonna win. It was just enough of an artistic triumph that I think they're all square three teen. That's typically the definition of exciting match. Exactly, you know, not par-three thirteen where where they both stuff their tee-shots. And it got really good for just enough time to keep us coming back. But this is a good segue into twenty nineteen because. We all remember winning the tour championship and his transcendent. And of course, the next week. He goes over and completely lays eg the Ryder Cup. Then he let's fill beat them in which was obviously sort of tacky made-for-tv event. But still the world is watching you think tiger wants to lose to Phil Mickelson with people paying attention. I mean, it put it took a little of the shine off of Tigers renaissance. How he he just limp through the end of this season. Does that give you any pause heading into twenty nineteen are just more bullish based on his victories and his fine play. No, I. I don't know who I'm ceilings from I possibly this is emerging without probably not I think tiger is rolling to see good golf from tiger in warm borderline hot conditions. So I don't think they're that may eighteen weeks. He plays. I don't think there are that many weeks when he's his back is really going to be loose enough that he can really take rip at it. I was shocked to see how long he actually is with that sort of hold cut Dr move that he has. But he really actually can't get it out there long enough to compete, but you know, Gus nationally get an early teatime on one of the two days. It doesn't really get that warm. You know, Bethpage maze? Not gonna be that warm. You know, Ireland Northern Iowa never gets that warm. What does that leave Pebble Beach? It's their Foggia soon. Yeah. So I just don't I just think this guy needs. He know how about you. What's your sense? Yeah. I think I think people need to accept that. There's gonna be a lot of off weeks for tiger. Whether it's whether it's your efforts seeing or maybe he just can't grind hard enough in practice to be razor-sharp the old tiger. You know has always said I am here to win every every time I teed up. Those days are gone. I think there's going to be more duds. And that's okay. I mean, we all just one the peak four weeks this coming year and the year after year after so adding that was part of his thinking for not playing this week tournament champions. He would have to grind through Christmas and new years to be ready. And you don't wanna do that. He's run down the end of the year. He just I think that was kind of a I think part tiger would have liked to have come and brought his kids and and shown them like this. This is part of the life. I haven't been been living as attorney winner, and as a member of the upper echelon of the tour. I I think actually would have been fun for tiger to do that. Now, there's kids are older, but it was. It was a capitulation. It was it was it was kind of an acceptance that he has his limits, and it's good that he found them last year. It's too bad that you know, what happened in Paris was part of that. But he he realized that he just can't play that much golf and that he can't be sharp all the time. And so, yeah, I mean, the temperature is interesting. I question like, you know, our entire wakes up, and he just knows he's not going to break. Seventy no matter what. Because the second steps out of bed. He just feels a certain way. That's gotta be discouraging for him for guy. He's always been about maximizing his his his potential minimizing his score. So it's gonna it's gonna be a fascinating year. I mean, he pushed so hard to get to the mountaintop in Atlanta. Right. And. Is that is that become the new the new normal tiger where he can play that level or that take everything had to get back. We're gonna find out. It's funny to hear you used the phrase when he was a part of the air, Sean of the tour. I would see that phrase and raise it to this. He was the tour of the took. He was the tour and the tour really is having a hard time letting go, and I think we're I think we're seeing in this discovery deal. How much he still is a driving force in the game. Even though it's very possible. Never win another tournament again, period, certainly possible. But this, but he's already shifting the landscape of TV viewer viewing in the favor of discovery. And I don't even know if they have a deal, I think just saw an opportunity let's tiger bunch of money or some money or whatever it might be in sign him up now while we can. But what was have you reported that deal with your, you know, anything about it with your sense of I've been reading about. Yeah. I think they're still figuring out how they're gonna use them. If that's the question. Right. But I mean. Really tire created more excitement just pulling into the parking lot and walk into the clubhouse on Sunday. The major championships than any other player on the golf course. You know, just the cult around tiger the way social media exploded. When he does anything, even if it's a show up in like a muscle shirt. It's just it's good and bad because it can't last forever. And it's in some ways, it minimizes whatever else is doing poor Brooks kept got like he another reason for him to be bitter at the world yet is the his career year during tiger's comeback season. And it's just part of why you got overlooked because it's just nothing. He does is exciting as tiger just tieing shoes. So it's it's a funny thing presumably, maybe this two thousand eighteen represents peak tiger hysteria. He came back. He won. He contended. I don't think we can stay at this level. But if he wins a masters who knows where we're about. We're back on the nNcholas watch. So. I'm already exhausted and the year started, right? There is majesty about about whether you like him as a person not there is a magistrate about them. There's a majesty about the way he warms up. There's majesty about the way he fingers clubs when he's deciding which one. Cameron champ watch. Have you seen him playing person yet? I can't wait. Well, I have well up just saying my sense is. It's spectacular. There's no charisma there at all the swing looks like it's sort ordinary swing on on super speed. We're tiger swing. Justin johnson. Roy macaroni swing? You know, there's something special and they're Cameron champ. Swing by the swing of the future where all the positions look normal. But the speed is a astonishing. But yeah, there are lots of reasons why we can't of go teicher. I can't quit you Brokeback mountain. Yeah. I so tiger tiger. We have to have to tip our cap. What do we think about the new skill? Okay. Could you just go back to tiger? We can't quit can't quit only. Because. I've just I know your opinion, what is your sense of their relationship? Well, it's the best it's ever been at least until you know, Phil start cracking jokes. You know Sunday night at the match, but it never made sense to them not to be closer, both California guys. They're more or less the same age, the family man at this point. And they're by far the biggest stars the last quarter century Tigers own universe. We all know that. But the only person could even understand the kind of scrutiny and pressure faces. Phil Mickelson vice versa. It just didn't make sense them. Not to be friends. They love they love sports. I love action they loved needle. There's so much common ground there and early on in their in their careers. Sure. The, you know, there was a disparity in their achievements, and they were competitors and their rivals. But at this point, it only makes sense for them to Volve as friendly. Compatriots. And now they have this linked business venture. And they're they're tied at the hip, planning, Ryder, cups, and president's cups. And so I don't think they're ever going to be super super close. I mean, fill such a a know it all and you can see drives tiger crazy. I goes this phony moment at the match when they're they're staying there the pile money, and and Phyllis talking about what did you up your L wedge there? You know in the playoff yet looked like it hit a little high high in the face. And that's why it carries afar. And you could like Tigers pulled a muscle rolling his eyes. I mean, there's always gonna be that element. And. But I'm glad to see that they mostly moved on from other little petty feuds of the of the nineties and the game is better if they have a relationship just like like, Jack and Arnold and their kinship elevated a lot of things of when we think Arne, and Jack the speeches those Espy's was so emotional after winning died, and then the presidential medal of freedom liked it the have each other to present and two to acknowledge made those those things more meaningful and more special because their star power was magnified. And I think as we saw with the matting tiger and Phil it's the same same goes for them. They're they're they're they're better brand together apart because the differences and their unique histories kinda throws into sharper leaf the other person and the other person's accomplishment. So I'm happy about it. But the awkwardness is still fun and delay. And I hope that never totally goes away. Let me ask about a golfer. You've written a lot about who. I know Brooks kept has his complaints about lack of attention. But this guy whose name about to mention you've probably already figured it out. Really is a revolutionary figure in the game, except he can't get any traction beyond except beyond the group that really follows the Torikoshi say, but of course, Bryson dish Embo an absolute extrordinary year with a method and acquitted that nobody else is doing and he's an engaging person to talk to. But there doesn't seem Yanni traction there outside of the the golf nerd population is editor untrue statement. Now, there's a lot of golf nerds on that as a significant portion of the population. I think people love and hate Bryson equal measure, and that's good. It's better than the not provoking any kind of reaction or emotion. He's playing I mean was fifth in the world ranking. I mean. In his place for it self. It's really fun to watch them in the major championships. He's he so calculating, so smart and understands percentages. I can't wait to watch him. You know, pick, you know, pick it part Pebble Beach and seem downhill from four feet at Augusta National above the hold the flex nice again. I know all these things I mean, it's fascinating. He is. There's there's a little I mean Bryson was kind of a lone wolf growing up. He's very strong specific personality. And so he's not an introvert, exactly. But there's just a little bit of social awkwardness there, and it comes out, I guess trouble connecting with some fellow players and certainly reporters, but he as he's become a star this year. I seem more comfortable, and he seem more able to be himself. And that's enough. He doesn't have to try and be any other guys. You know, he's not going to be at baker's bay would not wearing a shirt and and hidden go. Balls out of beer cans. That's not him. That's that's good. We need contrast. There's enough kind of bland young American stars. I mean Bryson is he's he's totally different flavor. He's single lane sandwich through three yarn. To iron I believed into our. And then what happens after the will? So he's it changes. Because at one point he was experimenting with having all of his his woods before you two inches. His driver three when hybrids at all be the same that that got abandoned, but so I've gone single length as you know. And I have hybrids are now on the basically seven iron shaft, and they looked like toys, they go like hell, I love him and the real easy to hit. And you know, Bryson his fool around without stuff at present. I'm pretty sure that his hybrids as we witnessed driver all kind of standard length, but it's always subject to change with him. And that's kind of the fun part. I mean, you'd never know what he's going to do next. How does he hit it so force in Tigers a little bit the same? Actually, it looks like comparative swings of your even Rory swing today. There's no release. It doesn't look like the club ever turns over. I don't really know. What? He does. But it looks awkward. It doesn't look letting the ball goes out there. How does he do? He's incredibly strong for when he's country strong. I mean when I was hanging out with him back in two thousand fifteen right for turn pro he hit balls for eight hour straight. And then he went onto this. It was he builds his billings on contracts back, then it was basically a machine that mimicked his his swing plane, but plus resistance, and so and he just did that until the sweat was pouring off of him. And then he went, and he'd he'd strung up between two trees what they call it. But it's basically like tight walk wrote. And then he was doing that and doing all these weird exercises and doing that with barbells just in the back and hit another hundred drivers and turned sweetheart he could. And I mean, he just he pushes his body, really hard. And I saw him. Let's see there was a. The PJ championship. And we're just chatting as put my hand on his shoulder as God damn this guy is just brick. So I mean, that's part of it. It's just he doesn't it doesn't necessarily doesn't skintight clothes like some of these guys. It doesn't show as much. He's really solid. I mean, he's listening to five and the tour media guy, and that's probably outdated. I mean, he's just he's a big strong dude started and he hits it in the dead sweet spot. And as you know, that's the most important thing in his strike sounds like almost no other. It's so pure, and so I don't know insist deficient. He he is found the for his body and his swing. He's found the most efficient way to do. And to get the most out of every swing? It's a sounding. It's it's a stoning. How different it is his mind is different clubs her different. His method is different. And and he says you said it's fifth in the world and winning and contending when he doesn't want. So quick question for you about changes at Augusta National. Yeah. Their number five has been lengthened. Maybe it's thirty or forty yards long. I don't know thirteen eventually get lengthened or their holes have been those. I mean in this this current tweaking, those are the two big ones. What's your feeling overall about the continuing lengthening of this shrine of Gulf hits just necessary because the fifth hole used to be the biggest baddest toughest par for Gaza? National actually Jenkins wrote a whole sl article about that whole, you know in the seventies partly because where it is on the property allow people skip it, and they just go from four to six because there. Fun holes to watch. If you've ever been on that that fairly bunker on the left on the. There's only one place to go from there, and that's into the Knicks. We say backwards. Yeah. It's it's a deep dark place. But. And that is becoming driver weds. I mean, it was just plain. So sure. I mean is it's it's kind of it's on one hand is hilarious. That cuts national has to buy an entire neighborhood wipe it out so they can just lengthen their their Gulf holes. I mean, but it's also it's necessity. It is in my opinion, a tremendous indictment on some that. We've talked about before and other obvious. Yeah. Tremendous diamond the dot gov. Chris continues to meet lengthen it. It's obviously not a par seventy to continue to call it part seven two, and you might as well, and it's obvious to that that sixty three and sixty four sixty five as scores aren't now what they used to be. And that the game the game should probably you've that way toward lower numbers. Then continuing to try to lane thin late news golf courses to the point where there unworkable, and so slow in every in every sense know, part of made agus national great in its in its heyday in some out of argued the Jimmy demerit era was say day. But was that do a speed that offers in the way the pairs play and going from the green tea, lots of different ways. Really? And now it's slow back, and it's becoming slugger intimate. It was it was like a little Bandbox in. That'll driving resentment in. Disneyland. Every time you go there. It's the they've done something new is unimportant Jones or like roles is about. But yeah, it's someone charismatic can't really see that. None of this is actually serving the game will put a stop to it. Well. How is it serving the game? Well, what what it? How's the three hundred sixty driver serving the game? Well. On one level. It's fun to watch. I mean, we enjoy washing wiser so much buzz about Cam champ. It's because he smashes it. I mean, we're all prisoners to that. It's fun to what who's on the cover the new Gulf magazine. Dustin Johnson is not because he's he's a great interview. It's because he kills it. And it's fun to watch. So I mean, we're all part of the problem. But yeah, I've been running around this for awhile, you know, sort out his kind of gag we need to nine thousand yard golf course. I mean, it was meant to be absurd. But it's actually completely true. I mean, eight hundred yards nothing to these guys eight thousand yards not long enough. I mean, what was Aaron hills? It was supposed to be seventy they didn't tip it out. But I mean books kept destroy that place. So it the game just painted self into a corner because in the short term. Okay. You're Fred Ridley, you probably would like to take the national back to how it was with with. You know, he's a purist. You'd probably like to plow it all he Johnson trees and cut the rough and do all these other things that kind of bastardize the golf course and took away from its original intent and its vision and how it's supposed to play as as inland, Saint Andrews. But if you do those things twenty five Underwood win and want to be like, wow, this is this is kinda lame. So I think that you know, short of a master's ball, and or some some you know, other action to to rein in distance. This is just this is just what we have to deal year housing because the governing bodies really this time this year for the first time have actually said that the league game in our game really isn't different. It really is a different game with with obvious proof being this ridiculous idea that if you gotta bounce drop it where it went. Oh, be an ad to to your score. You should one to your score that would have been a game changer. And that's how we all play. The anyhow, you know, you can't go too busy. Public off course in high gone back. If you put it OB drop and at one, you know, but then with the at two it's ridiculous. But but they have done is knowledge that they do play different game. Then we play and they really should have taken. If I may use this word, the ballsy step of creating a different a different golf both for for Lee. Golfers and do something to stem this tide because when you're joke about nine thousand yards the only thing it's not funny about it is it's the truth. You've made actually not those when when Hoge was playing six eight hundred six hundred yards for with Hogan's tuner forty five year tee shot is nine thousand yard golf course today. Well, I mean, if you watch these wonderful world of golf of these guys are in five irons on on on holes now using wedges. It's it's it's different skills that the, but here's the problem. If we roll the ball back for the pros and Cam chap driving to eighty is that exciting. I can drive it to eight. Sometimes like, but it's just it is exciting because it would bring back remake Larry Mize, Matt Kuchar, Jim furic and show that there ranges of body types and swing speeds that can play this game at the highest level and would create war interest in the more delicate soda parts of the game pitching and chipping in putting maybe I his greatness of of these masters is chipping pitching and putting. Yeah, it's you know, we've been talking about this for years. It's it's it's we shall continue on willing. God, I know Howard. I hope. All right. This two thousand nineteen preview. Michael we've been pregnant. Yeah. I know I don't have. I don't have much appetite that either. Let's let's do Riley's book. Let's let's been a minute Riley's got a book coming out. I soon sometime in two thousand nine John about Trump's golf. Let's skip this. We don't even talk about Riley or Trump. I mean, you you wrote the definitive Trump golf feature back the Jamin of Trump political Goff. Yeah. Let's move on. Yeah. There's Riley already know just kidding, Rick. We know you're listening. That was an unexpected detour. But I like it. I don't know how to moment of enthusiasm talk about Trump's golf, but I've lost it. Yeah. I've lost it to. You're a Long Island guy. You grew up near Bethpage town of patch hog, which I love to say just isn't going to be disaster to have the PG there in early. No, it'll be cool. And it could be cool. You know, it can be it can be rainy in in. You know, daytime highs of sixty six degrees. But you know, that's golf. I mean, all of us play golf in that weather, and it's totally propia pay PJ championship. In those kind of conditions. So you know, it would not be my first choice to move. If you're gonna my feeling truly they thought it was a joke, but it was not a joke. My part was the the best moment to have the BJ championship would have been late February make at the first of the year. And as you know, my my idea would have been to have it at Pebble Beach over here. Have the have the old Bing Crosby AT and T tournament more into the PJ championship played a couple of your think would have been really cool. But obviously that's can happen. Didn't happen as knee. Okay. I'm gonna say that you know, I'm your biggest fan. I've always been your publicist say, that's probably the worst. I've ever had Mike. I'm just I'm just gonna laid out there. Well, then that's pretty good because that's not that bad to be your worst, ever fairplay. As I look at the schedule a have to a little excited from from March to July. You know, there's so much good golf. And I think it's cool that it's going to end it at Portrush that's going to be such a crescendo. It was always a little bit of a letdown to go from an epic open. Shame ship to some second rate PGA venue. And we're we're getting, you know, swamp ass in the in the summertime, I think it's kind of neat. And it also means it can have more of my summer vacation in my kids. Like, I'm really a fan of the new schedule. I think it'd be good to him by the way in that the phrase champion golfer, the year's going to be more when it is the last major them more of a lead of time to the Ryder Cup or the prisons Cup, which I think, of course, tiger being the captain's part of it. But I think for whatever reason I think that the president Cup certainly can't be worse. So viewed that way I'm not really saying thing, but I think is maybe on upward swing. I think they'll be an important year for especially if the Americans lose industry is. The last blue bus there. Yeah. I mean, I maybe tiger as playing captain is he should be the permanent plane, Catherine for the presents even ten years from now because it's only thing that makes different and interesting like how he manages that who pairs himself with dust can be fascinating regardless of ever care about the presence cope, but I'm super excited about this one. Because it gives me a reason to do one of the greatest boondoggles career full of them already planning a trip to go to Zealand, the sandbelt Tasmania and kings island for this Gulf or g it's like eight courses in the world top one hundred on one trip and. Sinkings island. There's this. It's Cape Wickham and ocean dunes a couple of in its Gulf porn. You got these pictures, and it's pretty close to Tasmania really where you have loss farms and you have barn. Boo ghoul. And of course, we all know the sand Bill, and then in in New Zealand tar ED this new dote course, it's not in the top thirty and golf magazine's world one hundred and you have kidnappers, and you have Cari cliffs, and there's a couple others that are on on the radar. So Anthony is genetic coming with you. Yes. Yeah. He's part of its usual. We'll pack these we've taken a bunch of these trips. And oh what else is there? Anything you need to touch upon. I don't think so. Well, of course, US open coming to my my quasi hometown penalty. It's we have a lot of good options for Sunday podcasts. Good could be not played the public, beach course, just if you. Weeks ago? How'd that go free, so pure the course not my game. But it's interesting that I mean, the Ardy are starting to grow in the rough. And there are some skinny fairways out there in 'em since last open they've redone the thirteenth fourteenth and seventeenth greens taken away. Some of the more severe slopes increases square footage more pin options. So that's going to be a market improvement for for this open avenue. A teebox actually have to new tee boxes for for ten one way back from the traditional is. And then they put this cute little teebox box right next to the ninth green. So it totally changes the angle in the look of that whole. And I think they're gonna use at least once and makes a whole play shorter and even actually drivable for for some of these monsters on tour. Do they will they have a one ten start is the head bust? Yeah. That's awkward appel beats. I mean to me it's it takes away from what's. Grape hell beats is the rhythm around. You know, it's as gentle beginning the them and the crescendo down by the ocean. Then you turn inland on the back nine not that those holes are easy, but this is build up to seventeen eighteen and when you start on ten I guess destroyed. I don't know when the US Shay star going to split tees for US Open's. But it was way if they need a small revealed to preserve just having everybody off the first day that they should do that in my opinion. It takes away a lot from this Thursday Friday around seven guys go off of the tenth how they memorialized. It's sad to think RJ Harper not being here for for use open. A lot of wouldn't know who is just briefly Philipson and yet will RJ's institution around Pebble Beach. He started as a as a ranger in the late eighties became head pro in the early nineties when I was a cart. Boy there. He was my boss, and he's just the most charismatic dude I've ever met. He was a college football star. This term gets us a lot usually is not accurate. He did like a movie star incredibly handsome guy and just the world sort of gravitated towards him. And he was a pebble for over three decades. And he was general chairman last couple US Opens and just kinda was the heartbeat of that place. And he died pancreatic cancer last year. And it's he had so much institutional knowledge, he's he's really replaceable around there, and they're starting to feel that I have friends at Pebble Beach company and everyone's highly stressed out even six months out 'cause RJ just he just he knew how to do everything and they actually went to young. Yeah. Real gentle, just really fun person as you know, there's a handful of guys Bob Ford and people like that who are just institutions in the game. And they're kinda connectors. They new everyone they make introductions bring the make the sport a lot smaller and RJ was like that. And it's funny that you ask that question that I was. I was just cleaning out some old Gulf stuff. And I found a ball that had his initials on it. And when I I wrote a story for for Gulf dot com as he was nearing the end of his battle with cancer and went out and played a few holes. And I snapped his ball at the end is a is a keepsake and hadn't seen it in a year. Just pulled it out. I was like oh my gosh. Just having days ago. But it's neat. Yeah. They at pebble. They renamed one of the restaurants for him, which is cute. It's called Harper's now. And you know, I'd like him do more. But it is what it is. But like that that teebox on number ten the new one that was his idea. He was he's he left. His imprint on that golf course in it's still still there. But it was actually interesting thing about. When you talk about pebble beaches, a golf courses Arnold. Palmer was was the managing partner the pelvic company along with pure you broth couple in dick fairus, a couple of guys like that. And Arnie wasn't that involved in the day to day? But he did he did involve the golf course not necessarily for the better. You know, he put he put his super deep. Fairway bunker out on fifteen. You can't see off the tee that everybody hates right? And he put those was bunkers on the right side have number three which really that. It wasn't necessary. Because if you play down the right side on three you have no angle that green because that huge gaping bunker that's front right? And but if you're in those bunkers, you really have no chance whereas before you're out the rough you could try and get onto the back of the green. And the artifacts of pebble is not been widely beloved by those who really care about the golf course. And now that he's gone. There's some talk about maybe going back. Back and and unto weaking the tweaks it hasn't happened yet. They're still such reverence, but it'd be curious to see if some of those things happen, and even you know, Mike Davis. He killed the sixth hole for the last US open that still endures. An I keep I keep waiting for that to change. Because if you remember down the left side of six was those three smallest bunkers, and he he made one gigantic bunker shifted away. Right. Because he wanted the golfers have to play their drives closer to the ocean, which was good in theory. But whatever does it just aim on the hillside Rana left, which is not even part of the Gulf war has just opened land-based. There's no fairway cut, but the ball will trickle down onto the car path. You get a free drop, and it takes ocean and the bunkers out of play and your higher up where you can actually see the green versus down in the failure to blind. I don't know anyone who plays the fairly on six anymore. And it used to be the coolest drive on the golf course. Just visually. They grow some rough up there on the lips I six, well, it's just I mean, it's not it's not grass. It's just it's like hard pan aids. I mean, they could. But then then would certainly if is green grass would almost be more appealing that. It's Mike Mike Davis ruined one of the greatest holes in golf not for the first time. So. I love Pebble Beach knows I worked there for three summers. And kind of I learned how to play golf and special place to the there's some things that need to happen there to kind of bring it back to its former glory. And unfortunately, the t- sheet is is packed every day, and the the corporate culture there to squeeze every dollar out. And so they don't want that wanna shut the course down for six months, whatever would take. But when you look at the old photos, they have in the lodge of what that place looked like in the twenties and thirties, it was so mint. It was just incredible. And it was a little rough around the edges and a little wild and woolly, and now is a little too manicured. And they've they've added too much. It's like it's like a beautiful woman was wearing too much makeup in too much jewelry like it would look better. If they stripped away some of that stuff. I don't know when I when I write the next Harry Potter series. And I by the pelvis company that that's what I'm going to do. In the meantime, there's always specific growth love Pacifico. There's let's do that. We'll got twilight open week and will play the dunes. It's a good life. All right. All right, Michael as always a pleasure. We should just teed up that we're going to try and keep alive our streak of doing post major championship podcasts. And we're gonna keep we're going to keep coming back to the listeners as much as possible. So for those who have stuck it out to the bitter end. Thank you for listening as always Alan ship Nak for the Gulf dot com. Podcasts piece. Peace out.

golf Tigers Iowa golf magazine United States Michael bamberger Pebble Beach Phil Mickelson Colin Richards Celia Alan Dustin Johnson Spain Mike Mike Davis LPGA California Pebble Beach Ryder Cup Brooks RJ Harper
Chris Como

GOLF.com Podcast

54:53 min | 10 months ago

Chris Como

"Back in the saddle here post Thanksgiving. This is Shaun. Zach joined shortly L. E. Bhai Dylan to chair. This is drop zone. Hopefully you all have cleared the chipped fan from your systems and you're wide awake today. Ready for Chris Cuomo Komo you obviously know him from his work with Tiger Woods for a number of years but as we knew and we found out again. There's much more to Chris Cuomo than tiger. Woods you really should get to know more about him. He is an immensely talented thinker. But before we get to that this episode is brought to you by whoop. You've heard US talk a lot about whoop. This entire month is as a fitness tracker. You wear it on your wrist tells you everything you need to know about your body and how it's healing recovering. The wristband is free. You just pay a monthly subscription and you can get a discount on that because because you know me it is drop zone. Dr Opzz OH WHOOP DOT COM. Get you fifteen percent off your subscription. Check it out now. We present resent Mr Chris Komo. We're joined now by Chris. Cuomo Golf magazine. Zine top one hundred teacher. I learned yesterday that you were the youngest top teacher at some point ever. Yeah I that was announced yesterday today at some point. Yeah Yeah okay well. I'd heard that before but then I also heard that maybe Mike Ams was way I don't know let's it's yeah factual or not I'll take well. Hey thanks for joining us People no you from work with golf channel. You've got show of your own swing expedition. People also know you from your work with Tiger Woods. Bryson Jamie Mark I turn immelman. Oh Yeah when we work with Trevor Still am I'll l.. Nice Yeah Trevor is a good friend of mine and Trevor's has an interesting problem in life that he's so good with TV but he's a great golfers it on TV he's really on TV so he's kind of in between still playing and then obviously doing the TV stuff. Sir Actually got a pretty good year last year he said moments like I mean he was obviously obviously a great player. When the masters in two thousand eight I believe and Had some rough years but this kind of dug his way out of it and he has moments where it's like okay. This guy can probably some really good golf still but You know he's He Rono. Romo problem could be starting for like twenty four. NFL teams right now. He thinks outcome. Aw Come on down right now thanks a lot it does feel like he retired prematurely though right yeah for sure. I'm not big football person but he definitely did but probably with a good thought in mind cause he's addicted to golf. He has a great TV career. He's a hell of an announcer getting your body and your mind away from collision elision probably smart move. Yeah that's why I took myself out of consideration like before the draft implement. Actually the the masters is wild. Because I kind of went back and charted the performance of Masters Champions last twenty five years just where they made their birdies parties where they made their bogies etc over. The course is very predictable. Obviously Tiger owned the par fives and a lot of people who end up owning the par. Fives Danny. Willett played even par on the par-five so he won the moments. Seen immelman fours yesterday so I think immelman won at like nine under and he was like he was like twelve under on the par fours that week. Something like that. Basically he was ball striking his ass off. And I don't know do you. Does that agree with his game. Do you think is that his strong suit. Where would you put? Yeah I think when he's when he when he's on all cylinders. He's potential in the better. I am players that we've seen a longtime he just has. Has that knack. That sort of almost connection to the target. Where he'll just go on stretches were just flag seeking some you know? That doesn't surprise me. That that that he was kind of eaten at the par-five potential nominally in this the stats because the par-five guess are just those are the holes man you gotta get. Those is holes but that was his game guys like Nick Price I think even yes parnevik. They're kind of notorious for getting hot with their ball. Track in just like flag hunting. Yeah it's trevor. Those are those are the kind of throwbacks. How how much about the Games history have you dive into? Are you a fanatic when it comes to history and ancient golf swings in the way that like brand brings that stuff out to live from and yeah I was GONNA say less. Maybe the history of golf in general but from swing perspective served like studying old swings for sure and and not even kind of like this conscious. Like I'm GonNa try to understand the history of the Golsen just like a very organic sort of curiosity custody of reading books from different eras looking at swings from different areas of me like why did they work. So is it tough like are there. Are there barriers in your way to learning about like like there's only so much video footage and there's only certain types of video footage whether it's straight on down the line like what are the barriers to actually learning. What the Hell Sam snead did really well or yeah? I guess it depends on how you define the barriers I mean ideally. It'd be cool to have SAM. Steed swing on Three D. with force plates and super high speed cameras on Eddie. May's write us and that's kind of one of the things about like this error is that we're going to have some of that if you will data right we're GonNa have some these really good players. Roy Maccarone's whoever our Captured on three or four plates. And in all this technology track my whatever So it gives us kind of a lens to to go a little bit deeper understanding. What makes her swing work? Guy Likes need. We got some good video decent video you do with it what you can There's you know some some probably speculation that goes into certain things but that's okay too and I think that's where if you do kind of use technology you're not just using it for that particular person in front of you or or that particular lesson you're also using it to your own education and even develop your I. Is that when you look at video. Without the technology you're still able to kind of maybe eighty to induce some of the things that person's doing You know from the experience with using attract men or fourth player whatever. How did you first get into this whole whole world? Golf instruction of Golf Teaching You know I started game Kinda late like when I was sixteen and Always Love Sports. been mm fairly good sports and I played a lot of hockey and I got a job at a at a driving range. Westlake village golf course to pay for my golf balls. I'm a first generation Golfer. It's not my family. Plays Golf on and my mind. I was going to expedite the process of getting better at Golf. By just like reading everything and getting lessons from the people in her car Maybe a little misguided but in my mind at the time it sort of made sense so I just started digging into a bunch of different structure books in which is like a ball beater under got pretty good really quickly You know whence down some paths. That probably didn't quite fit me from own. Swing instruction all that but yeah very early on. I just thought okay. This is super interesting. Like there's all you go to Barnes and nobles and there's all these different books On the swing there and one of the things that struck me was that you could get books from a variety of different people consider top teachers out there and the opinions would be pretty varied and that struck me as like okay. What's going on here and I think early on? That was a big sort of motivation of me to really kind of go deep into trying to figure out are there some commonalities You know whatever. was there a moment where you're like playing playing isn't going to be my future. Teaching coaching is my passion. Or my future. Or that's what gets me going I think deep down side you Kinda knew that Really like it's like I was okay player. But it's like you know you start around that people are like wow I really good And now in hindsight it's like I had no shot but like there was a time where it's like. I want to play think deep down inside I knew that was probably a very low. Hello probable scenario And then even even when I was competing a bit You know helping other people that was playing with with their swing so I just I just really kind of like that side of it ended up dislocating my shoulder playing hockey and that sideline me from playing kind of a random playing some pickup hockey roller hockey. Yeah my league may not been picking League joined for BA. Good player okay. I was okay. Yeah and and it's like okay. Here's your answer so I had to stop playing golf. I just got really into teaching in that window and left Shoulder Rachel shorter. Okay so how now. How much golf do you play now? Very little these days yeah played a little bit this summer which was fun. They have had a little bit downtime. But go into this time of year you know. Ah I travel a lot for work and I don't really feel like traveling with my clubs from. NFC Two random cities so. We just talked to Suzy Whaley yesterday and she said that when you get into the Gulf industry you know. It's very cliche that you play less than you did when you were not in the Gulf industry But she said that it's not that you can't do not that you have less time. It said you just haven't prioritized Gulf and I think that that's what you just said. I just Kinda. Don't like lugging my clubs everywhere. The rounds are probably available to you at some point but if it's not a priority then it's not in your busy man I mean we live in Manhattan. It's pain too. I used to live on a fifth floor. walkup in Manhattan tight height hallways narrow staircase in you know a could. Have you could have the best vacation golf trip. Whatever but when you get home and then you have to get get around these tight? Corners like lugging fifty pound golf bag. Like why the hell. Yeah it's awful. It's crazy though because like when I I've been practicing a bit more of and during the show and just kind of him balls for that whatever. Yeah and man if I were practising. It's like this is fun I I love. It's really Bauza. Love of playing the game. I think it's one of the things when you don't for awhile. It's kind of like okay. You're busy it's like you guys have ever but soon as I start to get into it again. It's it's crazy how you get the bug pretty close in front of us. It's happening I kind of see it from me as some like similar to weightlifting. Where more or like staying in shape being in shape where momentum thing yes it's such momentum thing if you do it for a week you're like okay? I'm going to keep doing this but if you hit that three week vacation getting back into it. Oh man what's your bat. Add it then. It's less fun but if you do it more than yeah you're better at Lucas. Yeah so you're busy man. A lot of that is for some TV work with your show swing expedition. Are you enjoying the life of a TV personality. Is that what you expected it to be. Are you having fun with it. UH-HUH I like doing the shows you either like a I think the structure of it just kind of really fits what I enjoy which is Interacting with other coaches learning from them. Rippin with them like just just talking to another coach. I have a lot of respect for the things. Got Some great stuff coming up with not we don't really scripted out but sort of like creating creating an arc for what we want to talk about on the show and then just going out there and basically talking golf instruction which is like one of my favorite things to talk about so it really. It's it's a lot of fun for me to do I like the challenge of it because I have no experience in front of a camera really so just doing something new. I think is kind of fun and exciting. Because you're trying to learn a new skill set TV personality stuff. I don't even feel like there's I mean I don't you don't feel like you're a TV once in a while. Golf course like a horse for tornament like you know people will be like your show and stuff but you know what honestly the way you guys go about it. I was watching number of clips. This morning it kind live. Show the shop on. HBO Lebron's barbershop chairs talking too much different athletes and entertainers and they kind of prompt each other with questions that they are intrigued by I think watching Gulf instructors. Prompt each other with with questions is very intriguing. It's very entertaining. Because we're all trying to figure out this damn this Damn Game Ed. Thanks so much about it too right. Yeah and so. You're almost you're working together to reach you answer. That is could be a number of answers really. You're all trying to solve the puzzle. I mean I think the concern is always reading to get kind of to sort of out. There could be acceptable to people are just trying to improve their game. But this is what we talk ahead of time. We're like okay. We always gotTa be thinking the context of what something that's like usable for just a recreational golfer watching In trying to find that balance where are you know. Still Give me some of the opportunity to fly on the wall and listen in on. Two people are super passionate about instruction and maybe some golf swing nerdy stuff at times. I'm some man you can get deepen the jargon guess yesterday when he just starts rattling off things with swing. Yeah he's like abductor. A a five or whatever like it just feels like function copy language language and I think sometimes it can be tricky especially with the pace at which he talks. Yeah but yeah yeah George Strait I mean I do think you're always trying to kind of find the language that's going to resonate with your audience right. And that's the whole all point of communication so that's just one of the considerations that we're always trying to have or doing these episodes is get deep to certain extent stance so people can feel like they're actually sitting in on something with two is talking as they would are females. You know there's we've had some feelings show we're going to continue to have some But also making sure you know we're using languages language that's accessible to people watch him to a variety of people twenty fourteen. You're in the New York Times. Remember this maybe Karen Kraushaar an article about you says it's easier to imagine tiger woods who hasn't won a major since two thousand eight so it's easier imagine tiger woods winning five more to pass Jack Nicklaus than to picture coma moonlighting as a TV personality or hosting his own reality. TV Instructional Channel Show. I didn't remember that look at you. Now that's pretty hilarious. That's what Yeah Tigers winning majors in five years ago. He's now tigers winning majors. This you're a TV personality so Karen kind of anti called it out. I WanNa know what's stock. She picks the other way. Exactly just Kennington. I understand your position I get it. Things have changed for you. I guess what what's been the arc of your recent instruction career. Well maybe we should start earlier. I guess rather than just getting into recency aren't talk about getting into tiger to while I'll give you the recent one that we can go back. I mean recently just like my structure looks like I'm the Director for instruction at Taos National. Do some stuff there Do some stuff out of golfing body in New York but uh-huh yeah been out there quite a bit. Yeah Come see you there. Yeah absolutely under quite a bit. Great people over there I'll go out on tour a bit. with Jamie Bryson D Shambo And you'll also you know Bryson. And his coach longtime coach. Mike Show. We had this really cool relationship. We're all kind of like working together So I'll do some stuff with them and go on to a little bit with with them and then also with Jamie and then And then the show so basically a little of teaching kind of recreational golfers. I love doing some of the tour stuff and then doing the show. You're busy yeah I mean I. I like like having the type of people at to be pretty diversified. Like to me that keeps it fun. Like I like teaching recreational golfers. I teach in tour guys. I don't think I would ever want to go completely one direction action the other just because I make you rare Amman. Does that make you rare among the the group of I don't know I don't I don't think it's probably that rare. I I see some people that really we love just sticking with their tour folks in you like being on tour so we're Goenka said he hates being tour like being out there. I mean it's a tough question I I do like. I love the people that I work with. So that's fun. I'm trying to figure out what he's a travel a little bit less. Yeah in as a function be on tour. You're traveling a lot so I don't think it's about like not like tour. I'm just you know traveling a lot for a a long time so they can kind of be fishing with that is i. Guess that way to say are we fly in Delta United. Who's your line Lot of a lot of American American Dallas. They have one hundred or so. Are we really yesterday. Are you a window cedar and I'll see I'll see person. I'm learning more and more that people people are more than when I I mean. I'm a window Guy Ryder Darling to window. Because I don't like I need to. I don't like getting up for people to get out from the window. Seat the bathroom without I'm able to generally refrained from going to the bathroom on planes. Yeah I drink so so much water. I drink an enormous amount of water. I am trying to drink like three to four liter today and if I ever see I'll download in the morning to so if I have an early flight yeah I am the if I had a window seat I would be the most annoying. Yeah so sort of like the TB twelve hundred good spot you drink water lot. It sounds like it's a purposeful thing. Yeah yeah I would say so. I need a drink more water. All also people drink a lot of water and healthy it like flushes also sitting in one seat without moving for like a cross country flight also impressive skill. Probably not great for you. Yeah and I'll get up like I'll walk to the back. I'm just like cancer. Still McCullough getting on the plane you mentioned Bryson and you kind of have a a three triangle of sorts of such a modern relationship ship ship kind of like is that tricky it has to be in some on some level. Tricky for all three of you maybe to talk about your really kind of your one goal is to have bryson become successful and I'm sure there will be some disagreements along the way and maybe where someone goes sixty and you go forty. I don't know what is that like to have a triangular relationship of some sort sort when when most of them are just one coach and player. Yeah I mean I think it's only tricky from the perception people really or an execution. It hasn't been tricked at all. I mean I think the thing that's sort of unique to Bryson and then even myself and Mike is that none of us are going into it with some sort of Dogma of like this is what you need to do seleny to swing. It's more about like this discovery of how what goes into just that upper echelon of ball striking and that's Bryson's goals is just to be one of the best ball strikers. real-time and Mike just really smart guy. WHO's a great problem solver? bryson's a really smart guy who's a problem solver and to fund gooding in there with them and singer we can figure out an inch is very much Kind of dialogue and they bryson's calling the shots so it's more of like you know me and Mike Putting our input in sometimes will discuss things on the side would ever and that day price is like. Hey this is is where I think is the best strategy for this window of time and he is not afraid to call an audible so At least in this instance it works. It works out really nicely. Some tells me that you're You're the kind of person who would lake a player who is is not afraid to call an audible who is not afraid to continue doing things in one way all times as you get more information it makes sense to make some sort of update on what your what your strategy is just in general anything life as you get more information formation. Probably the way you're going about things should have some version of an update and Bryson's really good at doing that. As more information comes in he's GonNa make a little tweaks that he feels like represent better in his strategy what that added information's given him as he more advanced at doing that or better at that than other people you've worked with Yeah I mean I would just say you know he just. He's just a very curious smart problem problem solving type mind So you know aren't of. He's probably better than a lot of people but he's also more inclined to do it so I don't know that's a function of. Do you think that was more my question. Do you think it's important that he is that way. I think it's important for. Oh him like he's just got one of those minds so curious just like you know if you were to tell him. Don't think so much like it's not gonNA work. You gotta gotTa know what you're dealing with like you know it it. Sometimes the cliches are just not going to fit the person in front of you. Plus you know just whatever right that ain't gonNA happen watching him. Warm up at tournaments is just a completely different animal. I remember spending some time. Just standing behind he and Steve Steve Stricker stricker just him and his wife who's caddy. Just the two of them smoothing irons out there for a while and a SORTA just staring curiously over at Bryson next to him because Bryson had a team of I literally twelve or thirteen people with him. Everyone kind of had a role you know. Oh you got guys lying down on the ground in front of him like taking like slow mo camera shots. Have you got this off the record. Oh that's great. I mean he can become like a caricature of people. It's so easy for people to just be like. Oh He's mad scientist but there is some truth that he seems seems like a different kind of guy to work with right. What's what's the biggest difference with him? you know. He's intense he just. He'll sit out there as long as it takes to feel like. He's made progress with a particular goal. I think a lot of people often oftentimes be like okay. Let's try tomorrow if things aren't exactly right and that may not be a bad strategy for some people that's actually a really good tragedy. Sometimes you just gotta be like hit the reset button I mean I was at the British Open fears author till like Dr Author. Even I was at the memorial. Last year he was winning the tournament. Emmett was Saturday night last guy on the range basically having like a meltdown on the ranch because he couldn't figure out something about his driver and then he went on to win. Yeah like he just you know. Ah There's something that's not quite fit in for him. He's going to exhaust as many options as he can given as much time as really realistic stick in the way he defines realistic. Time is probably a little bit different than other people. Because it's dark you'll you'll still be out there. oftentimes now I think unfortunately if this bothers as you we can do something else but I know anytime anyone interviews you they want our viewers would want us to ask him about tiger and I'm curious if tiger is Similar Bryson any of those ways the willingness to call an audible the willingness to dive into any minute like detail that is bothering him is bothering you Do you see any similarities between those two Yeah they're both again tigers very smart very curious minded person. I don't think tiger at this point of his career words Bisak can do the long days. Yeah and I think that's actually part of of of his intelligences really understand that and understand the parameters of his body and then working within that but given those constraints his very much at the top person dig in. And you know what I would say is in terms of like the detail the nuance. He has much of a connection to like the subtleties of his body from anybody. I've ever been around like he's just a freak in terms of his connection to his body is really. It's really wild. Yeah like what is there a good example of like a a body part that he pinpointed on the two. Like why are you feeling that or Miki's you'll be to see like oh I can feel something a little bit off here and just like just talking talking about like just very nuance stuff like the way. His hands work so in touch with his hands. Yes really really cool. I mean just the level of like detail that he'll talk about something in his body or what he feels. It's just it's it's at another level wondered if that's innate born in quality or how developed it can be both be true right it can someone innate can be somewhat developed for as incredible he is yeah it's is probably a lot of different things have kind of created this outcome. That's you know the best of one hundred years sort of thing that we're seeing. It's interesting seeing he. Ian Bryson become kind of tight. You know they play a bunch of practice rounds together What do you think it is about tiger? That seems to you. Make him particularly friendly with you. Know these more thoughtful guys because he's thoughtful. He's intellectually curious person So so I think he likes interacting with people who can stimulate them in. That regard is what drew you I mean yeah we had some you know. I don't know I can't really answer for him but I mean I think we had some good conversations early on and We just kind of we're on the same page with like an overall kind of game plan big picture stuff basically you no way you swung it in two thousand is in my opinion of the gold standard of golf links best swings best ball Shrek. And we've ever seen right How do you yes close to that? Given sort of the parameters of what your body can currently do and that sort of from at high level was was the overall game plan and you know we just kind of connected early on so so is that two thousand tiger woods swing the best ball striking overseeing. Is that sustainable over. The course of a five year period is AH. Is it something that you try to try to have for one year like because he had it for only certain time and certain things happen in life his committed to crazy workouts you know. How sustainable is that thing like if if you were essentially in a video game creating the perfect Golfer and you're able to get them him to swing that way plant them into the real world? How long can that last? I don't know I mean it's sort of a hypothetical question that there's no real precedent for it but I do think in today's era with technology likelihood of sustained that for a longer period of time is actually higher and the reason I say that is because again. This is where I think. There's a little bit the misconception of how to use technology but if a guy's playing really well okay. One things I'll do is. Let's get your track numbers. Let's get your force play date. Let's get your three D.. Now Imboden of volts. Yeah keep it for when maybe it gets a little bit off. Smell the site in if you have all this objective objective measurement of. What a person's doing when they're playing really well and they start to kind of phase out of that a bit? You'd be like okay. This is what's going on that's different. Let's try and get you back to the space that we know you so at some level works really well for you so I think you know going forward. The use of technology if a snare like tiger two thousand were to occur again with whoever ever yeah I think they probably have a better chance of staying in that space for longer periods of time if they're using the tools You know different tools correctly in my opinion the I I just I guess I see it. As two thousand tiger would have been flinty three some twenty four almost curious if that's just like a peak it's a peak that you can reach in your twenty s but maybe you can do it in your thirties or if you think that technology has allowed us that we could see someone who's thirty three reached that I mean. Obviously you're going to have some some moment that you're gonna say it's as ever going to be and you can't get better than that whatever but like you know I'm talking about how close it that's reasonable. You're still winning at the extraordinary very rate. Maybe it's a little bit less than no sern window of time or whatever so I I think I think it's probably unreasonable say that you're gonNA play If you play your best golf at twenty three three that when you're thirty five notes exactly the same trinket is co-sponsor. Never did you learn or observe anything about tiger that Burger. So you're like tiger. Does this nobody else does this. I mean I guess you mentioned his. He's so in touch with the way his body feels but is there anything else about the way he. He prepares practices gooey. Talks about just playing a round of golf. There's a lot of things that were super burnside bull that can really share them all. I know all of them He. He's still competing so there's a lot of things that I mean. He said that I thought were or just like wow. That's gold you know the way he would. It's interesting because you go to like some of the motor learning people and they talk about like having a lot of variability in their practice and he would do a lot of stuff that I don't think he was current with the research in that regard but like basically doing what. Let people advocate for the way you practice. Really Kinda mixing things up costly hitting different shots taking the same club hitting different shots with it. I think in a lot of ways just developing his is whatever you will his brain his coordination to be able to solve a problem whether it be a chip shot from ten yards off the green or whatever a variety of ways ace and I think that sort of like robust kind of problem solving ability allows them to better deal with realities playing around the Golf Zoellick playing Eh played games with himself for his competitive with himself on the ranger. He's just sort of like doing research. It's it's it's yeah it's it's maybe it's research I almost don't WanNa call research because he's like playing really plays like playing out there hitting weird shots kind of experimenting with stuff so I guess you could call it research urge but it was. It was research in the way that like you know. A kid explores like something just very explorative image. Just when he's got a club in his hand it's just it's it's it really is a a very unique thing to kind of witness. Did you ever play golf with him. I never actually played. I would hit some shots around them but you know I was. I was working there us for whatever reason my mind I feel like I usually kinda separate the two little. That's just fine already. Good time for a slight break from Chris. US Komo is tapped into many ways. A Golfer's body speaks to itself the things that you can do with your muscles and your movements within the swing. It's complex like stuff. He knows it really well but that stuff. It doesn't have to be as complex. Whoop is a fitness tracker? That likes to tell you all kinds of complex stuff that your body but do it in a simple way just looking at my APP right now. I didn't do much yesterday. I have recovered eighty five percent from what I did yesterday and right now my my body is very ready for some high strain activity later today. So I'm GonNa go play some basketball. Do a Lotta running up and down the floor. Sometimes it's hard to know exactly what your body is ready for when I play a round of golf. I'm always so pissed off at myself but then check out woop and while of course I got like five hours of sleep last night. It was really light sleep. I didn't get into any deeper. Rem Sleep in. My Body just wasn't ready to peak performance today. That's some of the genius behind whoop believe me. It is helpful stuff for are those of you just want to treat your body seriously and take a very serious look at it so take me seriously. Use the Promo Code. WDRC Zone D. R. O. P. Z. O. N. E. AT WHOOP DOT COM fifteen percent off your subscription. I will love you for it. You will love me for it. It is worth it. Check it out now back to Chris Cuomo how about a when he comes to you for the position. I think you have to forgive me Eh but I was surprised at the move. A lot of people go for like who's Chris Cuomo And then we figured out who Chris Coma was but how intimidating is is it to be approached by someone it has to be intimidating for the greatest Golfer of all time to say. I'm really GONNA put a lot of faith in you wasn't intimidating Emmett surreal. I think it's intimidating for the brief moments that you kind of our thinking about it but then and eventually pretty quickly just doing it and then and then didn't just becomes. This is just what I do like teaching golf now for I Guess Twenty Years Ish So I'd already been teaching and I was always been like a very high volume teacher. You you know had done a lot of the Grad school softball macaques with dot Com Kwan. And it was just like this is what I do so I mean I think pretty quickly just get into the environment arment year just use. Roll up your sleeves and doing what for me. Feels like very comfortable which is teaching and did any. was there any like ridiculously surprising. ISING aspect. You're like oh I did not expect this to come with the territory of coaching tiger. Woods like other. It'd be ah tournament or some go crazy. Media requests was there something like holy cow not necessarily sticker shock but like. Wow what's going to be like now. I just think the you know kind of being in that sort of environment that limelight or whatever I it's not that I didn't expect it just actually experiencing it's different. They could just. It's hard to really kind. I know what that's like until you experience it. I think when you had the chips that was obviously unexpected working with them thinking that the incredible. I'm going to learn from one of the short artist of all time. No way in Hell ever liked touches short game or whatever and then all of a sudden you know. He had kind of that window where you're struggling even with. It was wild right as well connected to his pain. Do you think I mean. What was the origin story? There the shipping. Yeah I mean. There's a lot of things that went to. Obviously his body was something that he was kind of always in and out struggling with you know if you look at the masters I guess was the two thousand thousand seventeen Hit a couple really great pit shots when he came back from having so I think he did. Allow the dirty work with the technique During that just falling that window when he was really struggling sue really worked out of it and I mean the guy is never gives up. I mean he's it's what what he's done is a remarkable story of inspiration. My opinion like the guy he just really never gives up so you know I think he worked out a lot of the technique stuff and then as the body kept getting better and and better and better. That actually became a part as well. So what do you do when you see that happen. Like what's the first step in Otit. Yeah I know you don't seem seem like you have a lot of panic in you. Yeah the sense I get. That's a big problem. All of a sudden I was panicking. You you just cut it up. I cut up footage of him from basically every turn. I could get my hands on where he pitched shot. I mean I get hundreds and hundreds of video of him You know stuff those on the network or whatever of him hitting shots over the years and just really trying to piece together what is going on l. and then obviously there's yes you know variables of his body whatever then kind of hard to account for but just from a pure technique perspective to really try to kind of see some of the differences so you know what I just again like woody. Do you gotTa roll up your sleeves and and you know each day. Try to do the best. You can to try to try and help the situation. I've got a couple more questions but one of them in regards to tigers just you no longer work with him At least in any official capacity city and I think from an outsider's perspective I think people are like. Oh well darn there. Goes like the peak of Chris. CUOMO is like no works works at Tiger Woods. We address tiger for a lot of this podcast. I think it's probably on the top of your resume in some way. Is it weird to address like at this summit people come to ask you about what it's like Taggart's it's something in your past. Is it weird. That something is in your passes such like a Bright Star. And you don't know you're no longer work with it like you no longer can add to your work with tiger It's Kinda convoluted way of asking. Was it like to have of something so serious to your golf career as a young guy. Be Kind of in your past I mean working with him made me a way better coach sweat than the day. If what I have in front of me is coaching people. The best of my ability. I'm a better coach now than I was before I work with him. So if anything else I would just say it's it's it's you know depends on how you define kind of moments limits in your life to me. I feel like it made me better at what I do. Silent It within that context like I think for people that have the opportunity to work with going forward whether it be Bryson Senate or Jamie or whoever or recreational golfer you know collegiate players like I'm better for them because of that that experience and that's kind of where I got nothing but but thankfulness for I feel like you know what I'm enjoying doing right now. Alim part is the content side stuff You know I have some some background in doing stuff with science and research of stuff with working with recreational golfers of worked with some of the best players and the game of all time so taking kind of all those experiences together and putting it in a way that can hopefully a show with other people through content. that's really fun for me so I think you know two parts to it one. It's helped help me be better coach for anybody. Work with going forward and to it's really give me A. I feel a nice background. Create some good content to share with the world which is again a lot fun for me. So that's one question. I love asking people and we ask a lot of golfers that like trevor immelman great example. Trevor the top of your resume is something that happened over ten years ago ago. Like what is it like to continue trying to be the best you can be tomorrow knowing that. Perhaps the greatest thing you've ever done was eleven eleven years ago that must just mindset wise. Must be tricky times but I think it also depends on. How do you define goals just as like an accomplishment right already defined goals as wasted Kinda get into your own Zan and serve like tap into your own like aptitude and and your own training experience so to me? A lot of You know for me goals. Or how do I get the most out of myself. So in that regard like what's happened that passes is is not relevant in that context is relevant in the sense. They gives me tools going forward but You know that's kind of how I tend to look at it. I like that survey. Do you see Tiger every must tournaments talk it all team tiger. It's tight knit crew tires coleman he you know I mean I think people are seeing more and more kind of the side side of him that you know lot people who've had a chance to be close to have seen which is he's a cool guy. He's really Nice Guy I was out at the use. Okay Pebble and I was with Brian on the course I play with tiger. We talked up quite a bit and he really cool Nice guy so you say tigers cool. He's like chill fun guy to be around. People are seeing that more and more bryson's getting a tough rap out there in the world five hung out with the you know a bit. And he's I I think he's more normal as a person. Maybe not on the golf course than people give him credit for true or not true. Yeah I mean he's a normal guy. I I mean people complex right Bryson's intense like he gets maybe a bad rap because he's willing to work really hard and he wants to figure stuff out and everything's got sort of pros and cons to it so at the day's pretty good at figuring stuff out like he's having having a fairly solid career for how young is far right. He's very underrated right now. Like part of the headlines that he has made On his zone doing not necessarily swinging golf club. I think of undone the fact that he's younger than a lot of like the people that we treat us. But he's younger than Justin and Thomas younger than speed. He's got a different approach. He's fighting people in our instagram comments. I know some of that. He has done to himself but he's also won and over five I think five times already on the PGA tour five times like crazy. There's there's less period. There's less than five people who have done that at his current age so even it was like twitter son. He's being authentic right totally. He's just being himself. I think you Chevy Right. What's he doing? He's mixing it up with some people right like whatever that's like the day this is the reason why these guys make so much money because people are watching like at the end of the day they're entertainers that's yeah. They get paid for right in price entertaining so he brings. More people brings more entertainment to people that a lot of the cookie cutter Piano tuner pros to. He's a good guy right. He does a lot of stuff to help a lot of people in the. You should seem like kids at tournaments so it's like look people are complex right. He's an intense guy when it comes to golf Again away from the golf course. And he's super chill so yeah it is funny like what can inspire such intense emotions and people taking two minutes. It's over a PUTT man. People will turn on you hard stuff big picture of the world. They're not such a bad thing. We can leave it at that Chris. Thanks for joining us. If you had to give a shout out to your show and what people can get from watching you there. Where can we find the? I wish we could talk about the show moral. They say they sold me on talking about the show tiger. Let let's was working in that. What what has you excited about the show right now? Or what What are people getting from it? That you think is super valuable. I think you know my opinion. There's so many great instructors in the world I think right. How's the best time for someone to get a lesson and just to kind of showcase all these people who I think are talented whether it be you know teachers or people doing research or trainers? I'm just kind of going around. Finding these guys who I know. have some great stuff to help people get better through game. That's exciting to me. That's fun and that sort of you know basically the essence of the show so so going forward you know like we filmed an episode at ut A few weeks ago where we did the the men's golf team teach to to the kids that play on there a UH Parker Pearson cooties. Yes so so doing stuff with them kind of seeing how they train. Your golfers was a lot of fun. Did with Chuck Cook which will air next year which is a lot of fun. We did Recently we film with Bryson and his coach Mike Shy. That was awesome. You know next year. I think we got a lot of people that we're trying to get on. That will be really. Yeah the susie said in her her presentation yesterday. That only ten percent of gophers get lessons the right which shocking to me but again it's that to me is that needs to change or what we just had yesterday Jenkins gave me my first ever lesson really really. I know it's it's Kinda screwed up but you were hitting hooks by the end of never seen you but I do think that that is. That is something that I mean. I'm telling all my friends now I always get hit up. What club should I buy Sean? Because a lot of my friends are in their mid twenty s in their kind of starting to come into a little bit of expendable wealth. Third some type of income that they can spend on golf and they're like what should I do shy by a eight hundred dollars set of maybe like the two thousand sixteen calloway irons whatever and and I've completely changed from telling them what clubs by spend like seven hundred dollars and get two lessons or three lessons yanks worth of less that that will make you enjoy the game so much more. Yeah I mean because reality is if you were to give like you know whatever Sam snead any said clubs like maybe there's a set it's just right but but the reality is if you give them an awful said he's still going to be a plus whatever right so if you're doing the hierarchy of what's going to help you play better. It's it's going to be your technique and and you're watching swing expedition. How do you buying pink clubs? The only exception will be with pink list. That's really how do you the default. I'm always thinking about you. But how do you define your own Kind of philosophy. Because it's interesting hearing you talk about really wanting to work with different minds in the game. I know you've been enjoying talking to other teachers this week. But there are some different factions in this world right of of old school versus new school. All guys that are three D What are some of those factions? And where do you fit in that picture. I mean I just think they can all. I'll be true at the same time type of thing like you know a person who Let's say well okay. I'll just give my background so like I promise. Career I ah basic travel around work for a bunch of big name teachers like I worked for lead or while. We're for Haney for a bit spend. Couple years with Mac O'Grady Just trying to learn all these different philosophies would travel to watch random people And I spent the first twelve years of my career sort of his doing that. Traditional Path. Driving Range Just teaching just building a book through word of mouth and I would say that was actually one of the best experiences I've ever had as a coach. Just literally saying okay. You can't pay your bills less you help. People get better and so very a different style of teaching than even being academy where you kind of get like a constant flow of people just as a function academy right And then after about twelve years started going to Grad School at night to do the bio mechanic stuff just because I thought okay. This is interesting. There's a need for it these things. Aren't they fit together. That sort sort of the problem. Not Opposites No. I think people put them at sort of a common checks position to each other. But they're not they're actually very sort of synergistic so you can draw upon these experiences experiences of real world teaching which I think an old school teacher. That's all they're saying there's just saying hey look over a big period of time of giving a lot of lessons I figured a lot of stuff out and I will say from my own experience. There's a lot of stuff that I figured out. In terms of how to communicate to a person how to teach a person while teaching on a driving range eh like a high volume that no amount of bow mechanics or whatever can give. You can't replace it but it doesn't mean during the Obama Camp Somehow takes away from this right so the they can both be part of a coach is sort of tool set at the same time. It's very interesting to hear you say that because five years ago at at the Duke University top Hundred Teachers Summit we had brandel up on stage with a microphone in his hand. We had Brian Mandela in the crowd with Mike from on his hand. And I'll never forget this moment. Chris you know you remember it. Well I'm going back and forth you grab the MIC and you're just basically said what you just said like it Brenna. You're very right about a lot of things and Brian. You're very right about a lot of things and they can be actually intermixed together to be very true. You guys aren't in opposition as much much as you think you are early saying you are and you kind of shut the room down. I don't know if you remember it this way but that's how I recall it. Remember vaguely it it it just it had compromised guy and well. Yeah it was just like it was just like you aren't opposites I I think part of my point too is when Brennan was like advocate for certain things in the swing in You know a big kind of contention. I always make like if you have a belief about some habits in the swing. You really should be sort. I'm trying to find observation that deviates from that as well That still has the results that you're looking for and that's just to me is sort of howdy stress. Test Your own belief system system Yes both people can be right like there's different paths to success. There's multiple pass multiple solutions to solving problems. oftentimes doesn't mean both. You're always right like there's times when people go down that path and I think you need to be kind of so you know to me in no way. Are you trying to like kind of placate to every sort of philosophy but it's also like let's issue by issue look at things and see if they make sense as opposed to making any generic blanket statements about things and that's when people start to get in trouble I want I would shorn to talk about. I know that's guy right just I mean not about gang is but that's what made me think of that. Question of old school versus new school is like we were getting some lessons from him. Yesterday and people were fascinated. But there's also some eye rolling from you know some of these established teachers that have been around for a while because there's the sense that like who's this new school guy from instagram Scott. got a different approach. He's from California like Yourself Shelf d do you feel any of that. Is there any like do agree with that. I guess I mean I don't know why any individuals I rolling so I can't really speak to that I mean I think. In general. The reality of assists of persons had some success with their teaching. Whether Begin. Kiss or you know Mike Adams who's been around since like I don't know he's been a long time right in my opinion the best in the world if they've had some success like you're better off trying to figure out why they've had success as opposed to being dismissive of it because it doesn't fit kind of the way you you think a lesson should be given so in general. I think that's a bad strategy for a teacher going into observe another teacher because yeah you can kind of block block it out and be like ooh. This is whatever. Because it's not how I do like people go to whoever that person this for a reason try figure out what that is and I think you have an opportunity for your own kind of learnings if you go into with that mindset then how about your own philosophy. How is changed in recent years and and what are some of the biggest factors that have maybe layup changer? Yeah yeah I mean I mean. I think it's always changing right. I mean that's a hard thing to kind of say like this or that I mean I do think guys as time goes on. It'd be you know sort of naturally becomes harder and harder to like learn something new right per se so I don't think it's kind of like oil learned this new thing. I mean you are learning stuff but I think it's more just different ways to communicate with a person at the end of the day. It's sort of a people problem right. You're dealing with a human being in front of view and a variety of human beings who got all sorts of different like personnel. Whatever right and just how do you connect and resonate with the different people? That you're going to face is is something that that's obviously. That's the sort of the most complex problem that there is in the world a lot of ways right so I just think that's. You're always kind of breath growing away like that. I tried to myself with people I think are really really smart insightful on the side of it you guys got guys like Sasha McKenzie you know Mike Duffy Dr Quan doctor who gone teachers guys like Mike Adams or whatever but then even even people outside of golf like law the clients that I work with are really smart successful people who have tons of insight in terms of how they deal with their own business. Yeah so like I mean I feel like nothing's off the table in terms of what you can draw from To kind of you know evolve your coaching. I bet you run into some interesting people at Gulf and body in New York. That can't can't necessarily get to driving range super-quick or just comparative to Dallas where there's going to be fresh grass out in front of you at all times in middle of Manhattan. It's not the case but you have some of the most influential people in the world in the middle of Manhattan sure I'm sure you run into some some learnings. I guess just hang there rouser with interesting people. I'm around some really interesting. People Douse National. Also I mean there's some the memberships pretty pretty incredible with the quality. People that are there. Some great is is and women but I mean your New York. It's like you're going to get some really like the city. I do like say it's interesting. It's interesting place. So more sought I gave A. They gave a facetime lesson to travel element when tight like he called me and I'm walking down the sidewalk. And he he was in ball said but the the camera on the wall like on building her face time and I was doing like a golf swing. Oh my God just like in the middle of the sidewalk right and people are kind of like looking to be whatever and I'll just like it's one of the things we hear someone in New York saint crazy stuff like crazy. So I'm giving less than a trevor immelman. I used to teach tiger woods stories. Like this is crazy guy. In Times Square you'd fit in. Always someone doing something crazier than you and New York opening. Actually well Chris we can let you go now. Thank you for joining us. It's been a blast check at a show on golf channel August stuff. What happened there? They see us all right major. Thanks to Chris Cuomo absolutely fascinating guy to talk with also thanks to whoop for sponsoring the podcast this month. Maven great partner with you should check them out. Promo Code Drop Zone Darrow P. Z. O.. N. E. Fifteen percent off. You'll enjoy it. That is it for the drop zone this week. We'll see you back here in one week for a little bit of Presidents Cup preview from Michael Bamberger Alan Ship Nook you love those guys you know. You're going to want to hear that one until then I'm your host. Sean Zach Coco.

Golf tigers Ian Bryson Mr Chris Komo Chris Cuomo Tiger Woods trevor immelman Karen kind Jamie Bryson D Shambo bryson Sam snead Bryson Jamie Mark Cuomo Golf magazine Tiger Woods pain NFL Mike Tiger Sir Actually Brian Mandela
British Open Preview with Shipnuck and Bamberger

GOLF.com Podcast

37:21 min | 1 year ago

British Open Preview with Shipnuck and Bamberger

"Hello this is Alan ship knock back for another podcast for Golf Dot Com and the knock down as always. I'm joined my faithful wingman Michael Bamberger Hamburger Mike thanks for doing this on the upside here. Not The other side the other side. We don't want to get to metaphysical too early in the podcast of yes. This is a open championship preview to me. I think this is one of the most anticipated opens a very long time. Of course we have so much young talent the game we have a new alpha in Brooks Kapka. We have tiger who's still the masters champion even though he hasn't played done much in the months of follow but it what I what I think it makes us so epic is the venue royal portrush always wanted to games great pilgrimages up in Northern Ireland hosting hosting the open again for the first time since nineteen fifty one and it's just a monumental golf course and it's a really important socio political occasion so Michael. What is your anticipation level of this open intensely I or I could say device is not in ended that could measure my statement? I'm not really sure how could possibly overstated I couldn't be I've in there and a chance to play it. I just got to walk. 'em Look around from some. Did you lent <hes>. It looks exactly where you have been. You and you have played. Yes so it's interesting. I'm lucky to have seen the evolution of the golf course because I was there in two thousand the three with just some vagabond Americans and we played our way across Ireland which was a great pleasure of course and then last year on my way to Carnoustie. I went back because I want to the changes course and reports a big story worry which is now in the July issue of Golf magazine so <hes> I've. I've been lucky already to make the trip twice in the port. Russia's is a beautiful little town and the golf courses just one of the great pieces of ground that that exists exists on in the golfing world and <hes> of course people probably no this is the first time the open is ever sold out one hundred ninety thousand tickets or gone in a matter of weeks and the are organized some more water clauses etc.. They released a few thousand more. They were Gone Day <hes> first time ever. There'll be no walkup sales at the open championship. It just tells you how golf crazy Ireland is for for this event and and the town of Port Russian and really the entire golfing in community so I think the crowds are going to be phenomenal of course Roy mcelroy. Everyone knows has the course record portrush having shot it when he was sixteen a sporty little sixty one gram McDowell's local boy who grew up playing the golf course. They're kind of the ambassadors of this tournament but it's really a big deal for the entire golfing world for a lot of reasons when you're when you're downtown Belfast have have you get there well. There's there's now and to the credit of the R._A.. In others it took a lot of work to get this tournament back to Port Rush <hes> of course <hes> part of that was they invested millions of dollars in roads and in railways and so you can you take a train. That'll that'll drop you. You know a couple hundred yards from the I t right out of Belfast <hes> there's shuttles. There's Uber's you could rent a car. There's a lot of ways to do it. I think I think train is a very nice option. <hes> that's how many probably most fans will get there during the week of the open <hes> but yeah it's the logistics of getting to portrush never been easier and that's a credit to the aren A and and the stewards of of Northern Ireland because it really took a lot of infrastructure to make this possible but where is it on on the spectrum of of playability like a like a Lytham might be considered playable versus X. intensely difficult coordinating the wind is almost impossible with your instinct is where this false yeah. It's it's it's really get better. Turmeric term brain ovaries is probably a better example of a squirrel open course and currency to win the most intensive difficult scoring course. Where do you think is definitely closer to Carnoustie? I mean you know Northern Ireland is very exposed to weather. <hes> you know parts of England Scotland Have Ireland. Ireland is a buffer to to take some of the weather <hes> I think I think wind is going to be an ever-present factor. <hes> which of course we want at the open any links course is better in the wind and more interesting and certainly a lot tougher but there's parts of row portrush that are quite you know narrow you wind your way through the dunes and <hes> it's not it's not a place like like Saint Andrews where you can kind of swing away and there's not a huge penalty <hes> there's there's going to be lost balls. There's going to be crazy. Stances I mean the dunes are wild and woolley and of course <hes> in anticipation of this open. <hes> you know part of what the backstory to this the D- debris in port rice back into the road was <hes> the the R._A.. Went went to the proud members of this one hundred thirty golf club and said Hey we love your golf course and now we want to change it because the seventeenth eighteenth holes were the the weakest part of of the layout and they were Kinda hemmed in by the I t and by the clubhouse there's no room for the the amphitheater grandstands like you know it's such a trademark of of the closing holes at the open so <hes> this sort of audacious plan was hatched where <hes> there's a second links course right there at rope <unk> call the valley links and the championship courses done loose and so basically two holes were absorbed the they're part of the valley and there was also just some raw land sitting out there and so the old seventeenth eighteenth holes have been abandoned. They're going to become the spectator village <hes> and other infrastructure and to new holes were built for this open championship. They become the eighth in the ninth holes. No excuse me the seventh and eighth and both are tremendous on one is a par five. That's just framed by incredible dunes <hes> but it's tight I mean it's GonNa take three good shots and navigate that <hes> that heaving earth and then you turnaround go the other direction to this this very very tough par for blind-drive over the dunes slanting fairway and the green has a wicked false front and you know the McDowell's and the Darren Clark's and others who really know portrush well they they feel like these these new holes are great and that's really strengthen the layout because then the finish becomes a lot more interesting. There's all one of the great par threes in golf has always been calamity that was the fourteenth and now gets bumped back to the sixteenth chance so it's really a do or die moment in the round. You know it's this par-three. That's going to be a two hundred thirty yard. Carry over this gaping chasm through crosswind and then the seventeenth hole which was the fifteenth is par for the to actually drivable because it's overdue nd steeply downhill to the green and so that that could be a real thrilling seventy first hole and now the finisher was the old sixteenth now. It's the eighteenth very tough dogleg right par for four out of bounds runs down the left because that's basically the first fairway <hes> and then carting the Dogleg on the inside is just some really gnarly Dune so it just a very simple but fraught question you stand on that not in how much of this dog leg do I wanna cut off <hes> and if your ambitious losing the dunes you're in trouble. If you bail out laughter you double cross yourself you could the Balka definitely role obese so <hes> they really took the two weakest holes on the course and abandoned them and the added to more that are fabulous and by changing the sequence of the finish it becomes a lot more interesting so royal portrush was always a you know one of the great courses in the world and it's actually better now and I think that's pretty cool from the clubhouse when you hold out on sixteen where the old sixteen to now eighteen only about one hundred fifty yards maybe you just kind of you just have to loop behind the I T and and then you right there at the clubhouse. Oh yeah you don't really lose the intimacy of the routing it was just it was when when you change a proud old golf course it's always dangerous and <hes> but talking all the members up there the people in town down and the pros who know the course that everyone is happy with with how it turned out so that's rare as you know <hes> in when you start messing with with <hes> with the the links land but it's really was a home run and so. The only thing about portrush is there's. There's a lot of a lot of movement in the land. I mean you think about some of the the open venues like a car news. It's pretty flat. You never really see the ocean you could say the same about about the old course in some ways except maybe out in the eleventh green. You're close to the bay but there are some incredible views I mean when you stand on the fifth T it's one of the best of us and all of Golf <hes> the whole course is falling away from you and you can see the dunes you can. You can see the I._R._S.. See down to this Infinity Green. That's just completely framed by by the ocean that that's a that's definitely a another drivable par for but if you go along its O._B.. So <hes> a lot of risk reward built into that whole <hes> and that's another cool thing about about portrush is there's some real bruisers I mean just so monstrous holes and there's a lot of holes that are gettable so it's not going to be a slog. There's GonNa be a real cadence to around where you can you attack and you fall back in the course gives and it takes and I think adding one most exciting open venues we have and <hes> it's just can be fascinating to watch these guys navigated the changes up to mate Alan will they are they in place on voters just for the open known going forward for sure and it's actually a the deal that was made it. They're going to bring basically every ten years. We're going to bring the open back of their committed to three open so the and certainly the course. It's there's no way to go back the way everything's been changed and <hes> so yeah this this is this is Roe portrush now and <hes>. I think that pretty soon the people are GonNa forget how it ever played because it it just feels natural. It looks natural and really has made the course. Oh cool <hes> so yeah. It's no this this is. This is the layout that people are GonNa Fall in love with. I mean it's GonNa look so incredible on T._v.. Is just pure golf porn and <hes> I cannot wait for the you know. Scores are counting and the competition to begin. Give the intensity of the political effort to get it to Northern Ireland. Where do you think we stand <music> now in terms of ever seeing it open championship being played in Ireland itself well? I mean that's interesting because you know the Republic of Ireland is is not really part of Great Britain and this is the the opens always played England Scotland and then of course it went to northern it went to Real portrush nineteen fifty one and those every expectation would come back and then the troubles began in the sixties and it was three decades the basically civil war and of course it'll be Northern Ireland became a no go zone for for anything involving terrorism or international events the Good Friday accords were were signed in one thousand nine hundred eight that began sort the uneasy ceasefire and it really took a at least a decade before people could even think about bringing the open back and that just happened to coincide with Graham McDowell winning the U._S.. Open Roy mcelroy becoming a force in the Game Darren Ryan Clark winning the Open Championship. You know these were these are northern Irishman who were just fabulous ambassadors for the game and they really made Northern Ireland a golfing capital of the world and so all these these forces combined brought the open back but of course there's no history of of the open in the Republic of Ireland and <hes> you know you could make a case for <unk> Marnie could be incredible venue. That's down your Dublin. It's kind of the car new st of Ireland. It's really tough tactical golf course but <hes> I think I think are satisfied to the. They're going to bring portrush back in the road. I don't think they're looking to expand. <hes> you know the tweety old traditionalist. I'm not sure that they feel like the Republic of Ireland is is part of their turf so I'm not sure it's I'm not sure the opens ever GonNa go south of of portrush but you know we shall see it's it's certainly opening opens up new possibilities and there's a hope expectation dictation the the this this one sporting event can help galvanize the entire Irish island because the divide between Ireland Northern Ireland remains and even though we're in a period of <hes> a ceasefire. There's still violence. They're still <hes> you know this. This reporter was killed in April. Who's con the crossfire between police and the new Repub Irish Republic Army and so the the the a political ferment he is not what it was but there's there's still a certain amount of tribalism <hes> nationalism that that makes the the politics over there complicated and of course if you if you follow Brexit <hes> a a big sticking point the negotiations is what to do about the border between Ireland in Northern Ireland because Ireland is part of the E._U.? The European Union and Northern Ireland is aligned politically with Great Britain's which would be compelled to leave the E._U.. You if Brexit is consummated and so you know there's been talk they they need a hard border wall to control the flow of goods and services and <hes> that has helped inflame some of the old feelings that that led to the troubles so this is a a fraud moment to be bringing the open back and there's there's definitely some jitters. There's there's certainly going to be a level of security. That's probably unprecedented a golf tournament <hes> but you know Graham McDowell and and the optimists optimists over there are hoping that this will unite the Irish people and it'll help mellow things out and <hes> that'd be wonderful. I mean we all know that sports. There's a political element to sporting events you know we certainly saw women's World Cup and we saw the Berlin Olympics in nineteen thirty six and everything in between so you can't take away the politics as the context for this this golf tournament but hopefully it won't be overshadowed by anything <hes> outside the roads right. I think that's the nature sure these things is that in in the preamble you're a lot about it and then once <hes> shots are bleeding anger. You forget all that and you really really focused on the golf. I I was very stroke by what Graham McDowell said right the very top of your story in this month's <hes> Golf magazine mean about she's been so much our country and in the United States and <hes> in patriotism is so much part of the fabric of our Culture Museum at every football game baseball game and and every afraid and he felt that he doesn't really feel patriotic about his <hes> about his home country <hes> but that was striking but what was that conference. What was it like to even get Graham cowl engaged in a political conversation because that's not I used to do with the most athletes yeah we'll of course we all know that the Graham is a pretty deep thinker in a thoughtful guy and he is in a lot of ways of spokesman for this for this open because he grew up in port rush and you know Darren Clarke has adopted the club? His son works on the pro shop and the metal he won for winning. The open hangs in the royal portrush clubhouse <hes> but he's he's not a local boy he grew up. You know I think an hour and a half away seeing the mcelroy he's from Hollywood in Northern Ireland is not from Port Rice but because he shot that sixty one he's identified with of course but really g MAC is it's his home course it's where he grew up and so he has a lot of really deep feelings about <hes> this open in about this golf course and <hes> he was he's a candid guy and he's Kinda poured his heart out and you know he came of age during the troubles when it was not even be proud of Northern Ireland I mean there was there was over fifty thousand injuries that was more than three thousand deaths from bombings bombings and shootings and Catholics versus Protestants and <hes> was the defining aspect of your identity when he was a kid and he lived through all that so he still bears those scars. There's <hes> as doom a lot of people of his generation and older and so you know when I think when he came to you know college golf in the U._S.. <hes> that's what people thought of Northern Ireland it was a youtube song and it was it was Sunday bloody Sunday and it was all that stuff and so <hes> I think he was self conscious about that and you know the town of Port Russia's beautiful the golf courses amazing that people are wonderful but all that kind of gets lost in all that violence and so <hes> for for McDowell this is this is a chance to celebrate something else and <hes> all along with all of Northern Ireland and there's a pride in the air and there's a there's a a a feeling of <hes> <hes> of this moment is arrived. I mean and the people around porous and aren't a and everyone else has been saying this is the biggest thing ever can happen Northern Ireland. There's never been a public event that even compared to this <hes> so it was trying to put their best foot forward and of course. For some jitters that go along with that but <hes> you know for I think that patriotism that MC MC Donald's talking about is a real thing I mean this is this is a big moment for Northern Ireland and a lot of ways and it is obviously a transcends golf but the the golf course and the town and the people be front and center and certainly could not have a better ambassador than than Graham McDowell someone who <hes> is beloved and respected in and can really put into words what this all means. It's really it's interesting to hear you say that on. I think you know the the the typical American golfing tourists <hes> Vice Shannon replies to Dublin and and plays <hes> most of its golf. I don't know the number of purely guessing here I would think eighty five seventy five at least maybe eighty five percent of the Gulf <hes> Republic and <hes> and this is a week to really put <hes> Golf Northern Ireland on an APP for the American tourists as well which is a very significant maybe not as good as used to be with the Dandan some the research that have developed <hes> in North America but significant moment for their for their Gerson Industries well without a doubt the southwest Ireland is so wonderful and of course it was just on display at the Irish open with Lynch's the host venue and everyone fell in love with hinge on TV of course Bali bunions right there and Waterville and Dune Beg <hes> Charlie and it's such an easy trip out of Dublin. You just Kinda make the circle the European in club. I mean you can go on and on the Royal Dublin I mean it just doesn't quit how many great golf courses are to get up to Northern Ireland is is a trek and of course Royal County Down is a huge draw but real down only ten or fifteen miles north of the imaginary border between Ireland and Northern Ireland to get to royal port Russia's other two hours north. I mean it's it's definitely a pilgrimage and a lot of Americans make the trip <hes> but in the past I think everyone gravitated towards the South West because the violence and everything else is only in the last ten fifteen years at report Russia has been rediscovered <hes> and so they they get the diehards but for certainly the rest of the world this there's GonNa be a great introduction to portrush port stewardess right next door. That's a great golf course that I believe you and I will play during the twilight hours of open week. It's it's fabulous of. There's there's a lot of new courses up there waiting to be discovered and <hes> as you say there's the economic benefits of this open are huge for for one week but it it can really solidify Northern Ireland is a must do destination for the the wanderlust Golfer and <hes> so yeah. There's there's a lot of there's a lot of hope in the air. This is going import rush on the map and in different kind of way. She's thinking about the before golfers you've already <hes> mentioned a Harrington Clark knocked right and McDowell <hes> dissimilar people old they'd have a very similar spirit and they seem to be aware of life beyond golf in ways that maybe they're American quilts worse than many of their conclusions are wonder wonder if you have a series of why that might be yeah they're they're certainly made a list of the best interviews in Golf I think they'd all be on the list and it's not something that really would be rory. PADRAIG and McDowell you top five without a doubt part of that I think is just the the Irish tradition of storytelling and it's a very verbal culture right. I mean when you head over there to the pubs or to the clubhouse and people talk your off and it's wonderful for reporters right so they they've certainly embodied that but you know they understand that life is complicated Kayden <hes> rory he he didn't really live through the troubles by time you know ninety eight came round. He was <hes> he was still young pretty young kid but <hes> that legacy is always you know east inescapable. You know you heard stories he. I think they recognize that that life is can be a challenge. It's not it's not all <hes> just fairways Greens and so <hes> yeah it's really GonNa be moving to hear all of them. Speak about it. <hes> and even you know just watching Harrington you know he played great. The first round of the Irish open at lunch and have some his interview was spectacular the all of those all those characters such a credit to the game and it's nice that they're going to have kind of a moment home in the sun here <hes> it really. They're GONNA add a lot to that tournament even even if his caddy that's right yeah. He's a local boy so and that Michaela that definitely is is a subplot for for Brooks. I mean I remember when when the U._S. Open went to Chambers Bay where Michael Gretler had caddied Jordan speed Falchetti huge advantage because Grell new course so well and if that Gretler said Oh man I mean I I know the Greens at colonial better than these. It's been so along. They've changed the you know. But what matters is that Jordan things. We have an advantage and I think that that's going to <hes> that's going to be similar with with with Brooke so it is interesting you know Kepco he cut his teeth on the challenge tour and over in Europe and I can't wait to see how we handle this golf course because <hes> as we know links courses require a different kind of mentality. It's not just smash it and then dial in your your your your yardage make the same swing over and over. I mean is a totally different kind of golf course and I think brooks has that gear even as he's become so adept at playing the American style through the Air <hes> you know same with Tiger and it's so fun to watch manufacturer shots and his way around <hes> you know maybe this is what Mickelson needs to find a spark another guys want an open so when when you think about the field and on this plainfield who you most excited to watch I'm very watch tiger because I feel like tiger as the smartest call for his family. I feel like he figures out golf courses as quickly as anybody and I feel like he's the there's player in the game right now and every openness decided by by iron play off the keys and off destroyed even irons that will finish whole hot too. That's very different than flying whole high but to finish nine oh hi this is playing a course that <hes> virtually <hes> most well virtually all field doesn't know nobody knows a under these conditions. I think that was very much. <hes> indicted stable because of this dictation at known <hes> how to play Mrs <hes> what she's showing almost every open that he has like <hes> <hes> so <hes>. I think the fact acted a new venue <hes> soccer <hes> how about yourself yeah I mean he it's GonNa be interesting because he's he will not have played in a month and Harrington. Among others has been critical of of that notion you know when we saw tiger turned up at pebble beach pretty rusty <hes> looked a little stiffen the cool weather I mean could be it could be deja-vu portrush. <hes> you know it's I think it's pretty clear that eighty degrees and humid suits tiger and fifty seven and windy does not just he most of the time pebble beach looked stiff. He just looked like he just couldn't swing the club the way he wanted to finally found a little bit of form on Sunday but to not have any warm-up Gulf between <hes> to not play on that turf he's definitely put himself a disadvantage but <hes> this is just a new reality with tiger where his body won't let them prepare the way probably would like to so <hes> that's an x factor when he's going to bring to it but I know he's over there early and he is definitely GonNa get some practice on the conditions and see the different winds and it's more than ever we we don't know what to expect from Tiger that makes it kind of exciting. You know oh he's he's not a golfing robot anymore. These he's a middle aged dude aches and pains and whatever he turns up with its subject to change every day but <hes> it's it's really interesting. I mean a guy like mcelroy has has not played well in the wind his entire career even though he wanted open that was a pretty benign week and with his towering ball flight <hes>. Can he play a different game. You know statistically he's having his best season ever you look at the strokes gains number numbers. He's having won the ten best seasons in history as far as overall proficiency and you know he won the players. He's he's won twice. He's got a chance to be player that year but there's been a lot of Sunday stumbles now playing in front of the home crowd will be completely inspired and Willie Access <hes> some some unique talent and blow everybody away. I mean certainly possible. Will he be overwhelmed by the moment and the pressure. In the spotlight and that's possible as well so I think I think rory is is really keynote player and it's going to be fascinating to see what he can do. I mean you can go down the list. It's it's really there's even though brooks has been so dominant. It feels like this is this is a wide open golf tournament and <hes> you can make a credible case for a dozen guys as the favorite and <hes> as it's just really exciting. I I can't wait to to watch how it all plays out. You find yourself a a would tell you and I have a rooting interest. Dig might have always had a ruining this guy since Sunday night at the U._S.. Open enigmatically have more of a rooting interest <hes> <hes> but I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan Jordan spieth play well here and that might be colored by the fact that I'm rooting for him. <hes> if you feel the same <hes> explain why and maybe tell the folks that are experienced with yeah yeah we test on this last time on our last podcast but of course for those who didn't tune in Sunday night at the U._S.. Open MIC line. I went to the taproom. You're acting tape our podcast there we thought it'd be Kinda atmospheric and fun and it turned we just lucked into an incredible seen gene Justin Thomas and speed or the table next to us or their families and they're doing shots and having a great time and then Gary Woodland roles in with his entourage and their drink now the trophy and many folks in in the Gulf world from T._V.. Announcers to US officials rolled through and we're just chatting everybody off and having a great time and then speed unsolicited just sat down at our table and and we had a great chat about half an hour on on all sorts of things and it was it was quite charming wing and you know it was he never said this is off the record. Never we weren't taking no to just three guys talking golf and it was it was fun and so there's not there's not too many players. I think who would who would do that especially really be so engaged for so long you might get the courtesy hello and a little small talk but this is a pretty deep conversation that you and I both enjoyed and I mean speed is remains. One of the most fascinating players in the game. Aim is just a constant highwire act with him. <hes> there's a lot of fill in in Jordan. You know they're both very smart. They're both very unpredictable and that's why they're so fun to watch you know this'll be the to anniversary of speech last Victory Story <hes> which is pretty incredible given given his talent and his his youth but he's he's searching you know we. He's he's put together some good rounds. We had the middle of follow them up. There's you can see the angel. Madonna shoulder sometimes is and that's that's great theater. <hes> you know for sure he he remains a threat every time you tease it up. He's just such a a good thinker in the tiger mold we know the putter can get molten his ball striking. This here is is not been great but he knows how to play shots and I've heard speed talked about his success at Augusta is because it's in some ways like an open venue where there's a lot of funky stances. There's a lot of elevation ovation change. There's a lot of geometry and is not about making the same swing over and over it. It's not about mechanic. It's more about feel and just seeing a shot and playing the shot and <hes> certainly that's you know he said he's he's had a great run at Augusta National and <hes> <hes> to win on Birkdale which is epic golf course I mean I think I think maybe being at the open will will free him up and it's not about making the same robotic swing over and over. It's about hitting shots. It's about it's about feel and using the ground and using the wind and <hes> so yeah I agree it. Would it would be wonderful to see speak make another run because the game is better when when he's on the leaderboard right here saying that adds it even though Oh this isn't just what I was struck so much by our conversational is is fun. Dr Love just for Golf itself is the competition of course <hes> we defined the love of competition as defined Jack Nicholson Tiger Woods that you felt full-time joins the same <hes> but would Jordan even beyond that each really pure remand command Gulford. I can recognize that Jordan's beef and recognizes that's why the opened his job and because it really is an expression of love of Golf <hes> <hes> not love score just love of golf and that's so I think is is winning the open for years ago so ethic terra lots of different reasons but one of the reasons why it's just how that came through and how he plays every with gabby how he talks themselves. One of the majors is most of his personality. It's I totally agree and unite both loved the masters. We're not love Augusta National National. We love the masters <hes> as a as a competition the U._S.. Open is is wonderful and its own way the P._G.. As interesting but there's just something special and unique about the open I know we both feel it. <hes> whether you know you remember last year Sunday night run deadline I ran out to the fish and chips buggy came back me you Sean s-occer Charleston fishing ships which to me is like my favorite meal of the year. It's our stock. Yes exactly less than half my age. He's listening to your age but it's hard to believe how able he <hes> he handled the handle. Those <hes> that week we're filling those videos on the street and the fans are coming up and interacting me. It's just everyone loves golf that we and <hes> it's. It's a different feeling in the air. You know you're in these little villages where <hes> you see players walk into dinner and everyone spilled out onto the street and from the pubs and there's an intimacy that is unmatched at any big tournament and it's <hes> Pebble beach people really enjoyed watching the golf and and they kind of went their separate ways but the evenings at the open are part of the part of the fun and Evans sneaking out to nearby golf courses and playing golf till dark at ten thirty at night and there's a there's a romance of the week that is is really special and unique and I know you're looking forward to it. As am I any <hes> any final thoughts on this particular open Michael. I would just <hes> until seven. That's <hes> you know I'm short. People always ask us they as via which is your favorite of of the four majors and ships Paul Medical or visual but whatever you call it and then they think you're being politically correct with you know within some kind of weird Gulf got. That's not being political correct and some kind of weird context. I'm just saying it's the one I enjoyed loves. The most enjoyable and one of the reasons is in these villages and you can't take the train there you can walk there and the end <hes> in village life <hes> in the gambling life in our own golfer owned even golf all co mingle with the with the event <hes> <hes> so it's a great great <hes> celebration the operation of the of the else going since eighty five that I've missed a bunch of years but I think if I went eighty five and <hes> doesn't really changed it doesn't really need to change even as even as the Golfer. She's equipments changed. <hes> it's the same set of course even even you can just yourself of course as part of that and <hes> you know in a world that changes <hes> so quickly. It's nice to have a nice to have this study thing in our in our lives well. That's beautifully said our former colleague Jack McCallum hosted a tournament call the Christmas city classic and he would put out a little tip sheet on each of the players and Bamberger was always referred to as the poet <music> old links land and I think the listeners have a little sense of why that is now so remember but he's Tagline to that what is or picture that was he his haggus upon seeing the best one Munich really funny so untrue. This Bethlehem unique has so much in common with <hes> with with open play. It's it's it's cheap. It's open everybody. It's a simple of course and it's GonNa play absolutely all right Michael. Thanks as always for your time. I will look for you on the I T at Port Stewart in twilight maybe on Monday evening and <hes> until then safe travels and L. C. on the other side. This is a Alan ship neck signing off from another.

Golf Northern Ireland Graham McDowell Ireland Ireland Golf magazine Roy mcelroy royal portrush Alan Republic of Ireland Jordan Jordan Michael Bamberger Golf Dot Com Russia portrush Michael Port Rush reporter Port Rice Dublin
The best short courses in the world

GOLF.com Podcast

22:16 min | 3 weeks ago

The best short courses in the world

"You may have heard that Gulf is having a moment. In particular though nine hole golf is having a moment. According to the National Golf Foundation. Nine hole golf play is up more than fifteen percent in two, thousand, twenty, fifteen percent. That's an incredible number, and for us, it's quite timely because this week golf magazine is published ranking of the best nine hole courses in the world. And a list of the best short courses under six thousand yards. And a list of the best par three courses around the world. Simply put. We are highlighting non traditional Gulf. As someone who learned the game on a par three course and whose first goal was to break forty not eighty. I love it. If you've had that experience in your life you're GonNa love this list to, and if somehow you haven't been a nine hole kind of gopher you need to. We talk about the list and remind you that Gulf doesn't have to be eighteen holes right here this week on the drops. o-. Remember last year when Brooks Koepka said Gulf shouldn't be eighteen holes that it should be fourteen or fifteen holes. So how do you speed up the game? Literally would just make it like fifteen fourteen holes. Because then you get to go with the nineteenth a little bit quicker. Yes. It felt like a weird comment at the time because you know it's Pga Championship Week and Brooks literally days later is GonNa end up winning at bethpage black. But the thought was interesting at least coming from a guy who plays the game for career. The theory for Brooks at least is that. Less holes would make the experience of being on a golf course better it would improve it. Now I'm not going to make that argument in full he already did for me but it's at least one. I can get down with less holes can be great and that's why the trend about nine hole golf is really encouraging. It's a pandemic force thing, but it's great. People are picking up the game they're playing nine holes to do it. More derivatives of the big boy golf course, the eighteen hole golf round is good for the health of this game. Think about basketball five on five basketball full court. That's great. But so is three on three basketball half court basketball three point competitions. For Golf, nine holes is great. So as twelve holes, what about seventeen holes? There's a par three course at San Valley in Wisconsin that is seventeen holes one last hole and big boy. Gulf. It was built by Bill Coren Ben Crenshaw. Those are two of the game most revered modern architects. Anything but traditional, was their goal. In It's Great Gulf magazine is down with that. So down that we ranked the fifty best nine hole courses in the most recent issue of the magazine and then list the top twenty five courses that are under six thousand yards. We'll call them short courses and then the twenty five best par three courses in the world. Nontraditional Gulf headlining travel section in the man behind it. His name is Ran Morissette he's architecture editor. I'm GonNa Bring Him in right now ran. How you doing this morning Doing. Well, thanks for asking. So, let's talk about what we published in Gulf magazine and what is now running on Gulf Dot com this week in some it is. A group of the one hundred, best I guess nontraditional golf courses that means like the best nine hole courses across the world the best part three courses across the world. Courses that are less than six thousand yards. You're the main man behind it so My first question is really. Why did we do this and what inspired this list? The purpose was to highlight that right off comes and all shapes and sizes. We can all say that G. We're all busy. We don't have time to play for our four and a half hour rounds, and then never shine the spotlight on nine hole courses a par three courses or sub six, thousand yards. So we just thought it was time to start. Doing that and I think we succeeded. No, I think that makes good sense. But I think a lot of people wanNA know how you did it right I mean how how does a ranking come together how many people are involved with this ranking? Who are the trusted voices behind it? So the first group that turned to was, you know the golf magazine. Course rating panel of ninety some people scattered about the world. And I'M IN COMMUNICATION WITH On all the time, but I can tell you when I sent out the E. Mail. On that fact that we were doing this short course issue and that we were looking for input. The amount of responses and the sheer delightful tone of the responses was unheard of people just were so happy to see that we're going. This route. and. Then you know they're independent. Experts and in each of these in the case of the nine hole courses are really leaned heavily on a man in Maine called Mike Dutton who works at a former non hope orces. Now, an eighteen hole course he's the only man I know who is played more nine hole courses in his life and eighteen hole courses. and. I can tell you I learned so much from. Working in listening. With him for instance, guess what state in the country has the most nine hole courses oh man I would guess the state that he lives in that'd be. Me My intuition That's right. Gas and there are some really high quality nine hole courses in Maine that the answer is Iowa. That's awesome. According to Mike Von Research Twenty three percent of the courses in the United States are nine hole. Courses. Guess what state has the highest percentage of nine hole courses as its mix. I'M GONNA. Say California. North Dakota. So I think the important thing is an summer. This is just me. I'm trying to connect the dots but there, there are a lot of nine hole courses and a high density of them in the Midwest and I think it's similar to how golf started in Scotland and eighteen forties eighteen fifties, eighteen sixties. These community courses that were built were five holes. They were six holes they were sending holes were nine holes. They were twelve foals it wasn't. Until the nineteen twenties that there were more eighteen hole courses in the UK than there were other while causes. A lot of it is that people never intended golf to take up half a day. Name intended it to take one or two hours. It was a relief from far remain. Got Your mind away was it was a nice communal thing to do. And so That's always been the case in the. UK. For some reason, nine hole courses have had a stigma attached to them in this country just like you know to. Fifty year old guys playing, of course, under six thousand yards. There's some kind of a stigma attached to it that simply doesn't exist in the UK. I love to hit on that because my next question was that I couldn't help but notice twenty seven of the top fifty, nine hole courses on the list they hail from outside the United States so. I think you've made your answer clear that there's obviously something in that. Personally, my intuition would tell me that it's America's obsession with the score. You know I think scoring and handicap are are so based on trying to get into the seventies or to break ninety whereas. In Scotland. Matches are played with Stapleford a different type of scoring system and That'd be just my only guess as to why we are obsessed with eighteen hole courses. Certainly wouldn't disagree with anything that you said, and you know one of the Nice things about these. The fact that we only profiled standalone nine hole courses one of the in a lot of them were built in the golden age or even in the nineteenth Century it means that they're viable standalone entity and part of that is simply because they don't require the same. You know voluminous amount of resources that an eighteen hole course does and so if you're in a smaller, you know quiet or part of the country. and. You just don't have the foot traffic to sustain a full eighteen hole quote unquote championship course. The Brits have always been very smart and prudent in building courses that the local area would support. So we named Royal Worthington and New Market Gulf Club. The best nine hole course in the world it's number one on our list. It's about seventy, five miles northeast of London. Have you played that course? What can you tell me about it? It is fabulous and if you're into golf designed in all at I, would have in the world. Twinning? Nine whole or not but it'd be one of the twenty courses I would recommend anybody goes see strictly from a design point of view. It is not on very interesting land. It's You know a few miles outside from Cambridge University. Town. But every single and every single shot is of great. Interest on the original architect was Tom. But. Like Harry Colt helped worked on the course It's it's it's fascinating to see how good golf can be if you place your hazards well, and if you make really interesting Greens, you ought to see the v Green. It's on this fine and it falls off sharply to the left sharply to the right. It's par three hole hundred, seventy yards. It's one of the most the funding holes in all the world. and. I would say eighty percent of the people on our panel who responded. Listed that as their number, one selection and. Put that in perspective that's more than the first place votes that Pine Valley gets relatively speaking. So it is just a beloved worshiped off course. I realize as I looked down the list. You know I haven't played a single one of these standalone nine hole courses. And yet I know exactly how many top one hundred courses I've played in the world That's probably not surprising to you but that's kind of the idea. Right is to make this list of courses. Ones that people should treat like the top one hundred that they should try to. You know mark off check those boxes get out to to these courses and and understand the game and a better way with just half as many holes. You're exactly right. I. Don't know why you wouldn't elect to treat it that way and and it's a little bit. Behind why we decided to rank them I mean, if you know we all know. The excitement that the world rankings create and right now we're working on the US top one hundred rankings and I'm sure you and I'll be back on the phone and sixty days when they're. Released but if we're going to celebrate nine hole or says, we should treat them in the same manner as as eighteen hole courses but there are some absolute coworkers. That we were saved that just makes your tongue bag. They love that When you think about these various types of courses I'm going to ask you like. What role do you see them playing within the game or what various roles because I think about a lot of my friends? Drawing up in the State of Wisconsin and and we are told and and we tend to believe that. San Valley has two great courses and is a great course in the colour courses have four great eighteen hole courses la. Sonia has two courses. They're all eighteen holes. So for my friends in Wisconsin people all across the United States, these shorter courses, not traditional courses par-three or sort or You know what have you? What role do you see them playing? Why are they important? You know they they are right for children to learn the game. They are great for seniors They are great for somebody like myself age fifty seven who goes to Bandon who goes to Pinehurst goes to cabinet and there were days years gone by. Walking Kerry fifty four holes. Now, we're down to the thirty six holes some days three days into the trip. You know maybe just need to play you know a manhole course. So. It's no surprise that that you see the proliferation of these par three courses on. At at all the great resort said, just you know you walk you carry a bag for eighteen holes and you play a par three course and that's plenty of golf for a lot of people. So it gets back to what I was saying earlier about the origins of the game where you know they were the holes were five six eight holes, and maybe it took you an hour maybe it took an hour and a half. But but you know that's that's plenty of golf for A lot of people now trend that we're seeing is a lot of resorts are making sure that they have a par three course on their property like the cradle at Pinehurst like you mentioned Pebble Beach is getting one designed by Tiger Woods design team. most recently, I played the sandbox at San. Valley. That's A. It's a seventeen hole par three and I know that coren crenshaw. When they went out there. They're like, you know what? Anything but nine holes, anything eighteen holes I just don't WanNa see another traditional number attached to a number of Gulf oil's out here Beyond the obvious. Is there a reason why resorts C. value in these courses you know I think it helps make them more of a destination for the entire. Family there's just more for all ages. To do in the case of the cradle that you oftentimes see non walkers following along with their group and so it's just I don't know what the the downside is a mode, the resort loves tying their. Visitors close to the. Clubhouse I'm just makes. Sense and playing in the shadows of this hundred old clubhouse had just makes. Everybody. Happy. Yeah. I I really had a lot of fun at the sandbox obviously a lot of fun at the cradle but I just I was. So obsessed I flew my drone at San Valley and I got zoomed up You know over the over the sandbox and took a picture looking down and you could fit the entire course into one photo like there's there's not that many places you can do that. Well you know I was up there a year ago and we finished mammoth really early, and so we were three hours ahead of our. Time to play the sandbox and we couldn't get on any earlier I. Mean. That's how popular all these courses have become. Well, I'll let you go with a couple other things. I know we highlight Shishkin Golf and tennis club That's a par forty, two, twelve holes less than three thousand yards. It's on an island in South West Scotland I was just looking at the the stats par forty, two, twelve holes less than three thousand yards I mean that has to feel like the perfect essence of what short-course is I don't know. I. Think what Brooks Koepka has mentioned in terms of. Gulf should be only twelve holes and he's a bit dismissive of aspects of it but. You know the that course those numbers feel like they represent exactly what we're trying to get across here. You know the the host, some six, thousand yard for so we limited to twenty five. And WE WE ended up with all the ballots that came in. We ended up with sixty four courses that were nominated the among the world's best subs six thousand. Yard or sub paring it down was brutal. And what we elected to do was to try and have one in. Essentially each hundred yard incremental. More or less. Starting you know shish. At, was the only one it was under three thousand yards on next was Kobe an Audubon Park in New Orleans four, thousand, two, twenty, and starting with hill at four. Thousand Four, hundred, sixty, four, we tried to go up one in one hundred, yard eight from months all the way to the very last one, which is Princess Anne in Virginia Beach, which is five, thousand and size. And one of the reasons I want to mention that. When when your readers? And listeners here this. You know they're going to be like how in the World Ellen number three not on here or pit Loughry, and there are some of the more famous thousand yard courses in the UK and we elected to. Once eighty other people hadn't heard, but they you know they were in that same hundred yard bucket. So so next year, we're GONNA do a fifty. Course, ranking up the Sub Six thousand yards, and just continue to shine the spotlight on these and hopefully capture people's fancies like yours with a Shishkin there. Before cove it hit I was set to go play cabin finish while fooling Kingston which I think. Are, three of the probably a hundred fifty best golf courses in the world ignoring. That, they are under six thousand yards. That's how I'm expectations are. Heading to to some of these places, and I, just hope people will give any one of these courses chance Because I promise you won't be disappointed. All right. Well, I will let you go here with one question I know you have not played all one hundred courses we have highlighted, but which is the one top your bucket list that you're dying to get to. Embarrassed to say I've never played the Donald Ross and so of course, Massachusetts came in number two. I'm an enormous Phantom Culver Academies. But. White and so just beat it out if it's better than culver than really must be as good as its reputation, and then there were a couple of courses for mainland. The came in five and six Lankford know course and think it's pronounced regular Both were. Lectured, was done by Harry. Colt. So super keen. To see those. Really my bucket list expanded as a result of this actually. Yeah and I imagine that everyone else's bucket lists if they're really dialed in to golf courses will expand Thank you ran. Thanks for joining me. Thanks, REVENUE There's a little time left in this Gulf season folks. It's early, September so what do we have left two months maybe three months How about you go out and play strictly nine holes this week. Or nine hole rounds do it multiple times search for a course that is only nine holes. Check on our list of nine haulers or par-three course are short courses find out which one is closest to you make. Saturday, trip out of it maybe a Sunday morning trip. Why not? It'll be good for your game I promise. Thanks to ran. Morissette for joining me thanks to leave finer he's our ace producer. We're not done with golf courses. We're going to bring you some of the biggest names in golf course design and golf resort creation all in the coming weeks. See Them.

Golf United States Gulf golf magazine UK Brooks Koepka National Golf Foundation Wisconsin Bill Coren Ben Crenshaw Maine Harry Colt Great Gulf magazine Gulf Morissette basketball San Valley Scotland Gulf magazine Gulf Dot Shishkin Golf
Ep #101  Top 100 LPGA Tour Coach, Joe Hallett

Junior Golf Blueprint

1:22:33 hr | 10 months ago

Ep #101 Top 100 LPGA Tour Coach, Joe Hallett

"Can you pay attention. And when when they start to drift the wrong way and you know this and I know this as a player you get into a position where they're they're very comfortable we know it from from our own games. Every player knows it from their own game. Cool not crossing the line anymore. And I love you know laid off or crossing the crossing allies nemesis that I've been plagued with all my life and I I can remember Gary Gilchrist and Michael Haywood both worked with Allison Walsh on got the club down online. I remember walking over over to her and a practice run tournament. I said I know we're friends and I know I'm not your instructor but I want to tell you something. This is a battle. You're going to have to fight all your life. Because has the minute you go. I got it and put it on. Autopilot it's GonNa go right back where it was and that little nugget was brought to you but my my good friend Joe Hallett Joanna T- snowsuit each other at the legends club and he has been a great resource for me since I started there a few years back in even though we don't see each other as often as we like Samantha's to awesome being out on the LPGA twirl time today we finally sat down and and spent an hour in jaded which is goes down as one of the lowest conversations. We've had deputies chat for it was a fun chat. Hope you enjoy it. He's a phenomenal dude. Great Personality and a great teacher that can bring all kinds of insights to you as he'd just simply knows everybody and anybody in the teaching business and It's always so so told me this whole told me that from Joe and And he and he's taking Matt Knowledge and going back and Sharon into PJ schools. That like I graduated from so with that. We're GonNa let you die minute and listen to Jo's episode of the PODCAST podcast. And if you enjoy podcasts you know what to do. Subscribe Live Review Financing Social Media at Walter. PGA On facebook junior blueprint sprint. or you can get episodes early on patriotic and find me at Matt Waterfall. So at that ladies and gentlemen list digging and enjoy. Aw I will tell you about how published my podcast is anchor anchors free and they have plenty of creation creation tools record in et. Your podcast right from your phone or your computer anchor. Also do all your distribution for you and it can be heard on many different podcasting casting apps like spotify apple podcasts and many more is the easiest way to get started for free period. So if you want to start your own podcast download the free anchor APP or go to anchor dot. FM to started this episode of the Junior. Golf blueprint is brought to you by future champions. Golf Future Champions Golf is one of the premier junior golf tours that is helping kids across our country and other other countries have the best chance to get recruited and to go play at the next level in college over a hundred and twenty coaches in two thousand eighteen going to watch players at their events. And there's some of these events hosting over six hundred players future champions. Golf is the tour to put your kids on to really test to see if they have the right stuff go to the next level so go check him out. Future Champions Golf DOT COM or become one of their many of forty some odd thousand followers to go following the social media at teacher champions. Call All Right Ladies and gentlemen today on the podcast. I'm bringing on one of my favorites. I get the teach next to him whenever he's actually in town and his name is Joe Hallett. He's been a top one hundred for as long as I've probably been alive but he's a great dude. I get the chance to bounce ideas off of love and he keeps me engaging my brain when whenever we get the chance to chat because the chassis he gets to have a lot of fun and I'm glad to share them so if you don't the Hoodoo how it is he's Kosher Stacy Lewis. He's also spent a lot of time on the LPGA tour and we're so a lot of collegiate players as well so he's got a great story. But before I ruined it for everybody Joe. Why don't you give us your golf story? How'd you get in the game? And how did you get to where you're at well. First of all this is like I think this is probably the longest time you and I have ever sat down in one sitting without being walking out the door and go okay this thing. That's in Golf magazine. Can you explain this to me please. Why this is the next phase as of what we're doing other office between lessons you know? And that's the coolest part is to come out and watch you work with all the generation of tomorrow morrow as well as some of the great players that are out there today playing on so many of the different tours and just Kinda. Watch the changes in to me anybody. That does a good job in what we do. You can kind of tell it on the player's face where they're like. Sometimes I won't say a word. Just keep wanting to hit more golf balls. You'RE GONNA Stephanie. Going slow down man and I'm like I'm standing back there non my head going you doing a good job. Join this so You know honestly Esley I. I had a chance a few years ago to do something with Randall. Mel on the Golf Channel and talking about my background and it was kind of one of those times it makes you stop and reflect and honestly when I was a kid our family moved to the fourth hole of a place called the Biltmore Golf Course in Coral Gables Florida And I used to sneak out there at night with you know club. My daddy cut down for me. Is More of the twelve thirteen year old. And I had to wait until the guy and the little cushman cart came by and told all the flags out of the hole. I knew I was free to go and he and I would sit out there and hit some golf balls and I just started loving it and I just wanted to play lie and kept playing and playing just like we all. Did you know had a chance to play some junior golf and go to college and then I kinda wanted to turn pro and I was the the quivalent of a really bad real estate agent. I'd sell one heck of a house about every nine months. You know kind of like yeah. Great paycheck can't wait for next week. Right back down and you know I spent about three years doing that. And kind of the fourth time I was going to go back to Q-school and oddly enough of course as we're podcasting here. We're actually in Franklin Tennessee. One place at the school. Every year was Murphysboro Tennessee. Because I love that old Fort Golf course and it was just so so much fun you knew. That was a good way to kind of hit head into the first agent through and as as going back to my four stage my one of my mentors. A guy named Joe Lopez junior who Jo's in his nineties now and he and I still keep in touch. It's really special. And he said you you ought to teach which that's the last thing every tour player here. It was like the best thing because it was the nicest way to say. You don't have what it takes. And he had played. The tour. Tate played the senior tour. And I thought Mr Lopez I just don't have the patience for that. I don't have the patience for my own game. I mean confession time here. One time playing on the firm and golf team and a qualifier. Got Six clubs stuck up in a tree trying to get my putter which I had thrown into the tree out so those last couple of holes were a lot more challenging. I think most people would but I had the opportunity kind of maybe where life put the man above puts you every once in a while to be in some interesting testing spots in as a kid. There's a gentleman who had given my dad golf lessons and he lived shoot. Maybe four streets away from us and and he was a good family family front and his name was Bob Totski. Oh yeah and I got to take some lessons from Bob and then my dad had some friends who are on the tour and I remember going place called Pell City Alabama and spending two weeks working with this guy named Jimmy. Ballard had years later my mom moved back to Orlando and she buys a town home home and she's excited. She's telling me about the the next door neighbor that moved in and they're really nice and she said you know we were out getting garbage cans. I chatted with him for a while now. He's instructor after I think and I I asked him if he knew mom nobody knows me. I ranked four thousand to the world at all right. Why asked him if he knew you and I told you you? You're a good Golfer. We're and I think he's an instructor sometime. Taller guy had on a kind of a Straw hat to the EPA South African. Yes David ledbetter asked if David delivered new me so literally. It's been one of those things to not only have had an opportunity to work on my own game with those is people but to kind of count them as friends or different acquaintances. You know what I mean. And later on his life is kind of progressed. It was neat to be able to go spend time on them and literally Mister Lopez set it up one day and I said you serious about that teaching thing and he said Yeah I said maybe I'll when do you want me to start. He goes you can have the office next to mind you start next week. And that's awesome and it was just one of those things minute identities like. Come on. Anybody could fix this. This guy you serious on the same thing and you're like man and all of a sudden I realized that people could get joy an improvement out of their game when I couldn't get any ad mine anymore and it was like you know this is kind of a fun journey an awesome and that's true story. That's how it's got there and I'm going to share one thing real quick. I don't WanNa take up all the time and I know you shared this with you but you know a golf lesson isn't always about a golf lesson. There's so many great eight golf books. So there's a great book called on learning Gulf by Percy boomer and it was like a two page chapter about him teaching this lady. They'd ever talked golf the whole time. It has nothing. It's like the favorite ever chapter in the book. It's kind of like so when I was a kid. I probably had had six lessons from Tosca at this point and I went back from my seventh lesson. You know how kids were hitting millions balls day and you know us even the correct rage rage ball. I paid a dollar fifty four it. I'm hitting it Dr Right Right and I remember Mr Ski Walking Up and I've just been beaten balls so long and I was like Mr Tachi for our lesson. I'm really starting to understand this kind of you know holding this angle and yet does make the ball go further and I can't wait to work on our lesson today. Just Kinda was muddling through my bag and finally stared at me and he goes news. You wonder what your listeners today son and I said Yes sir Mr Tusk and he said clean your blog and I stared back at him and he turned around and left left nate lunch. Oh Jeez I was like Whoa. I remember my mom coming out to get me and she said Hey. How was your lesson with Bob and I go well short? She said what did he tell you. I'm not allowed to say. Words like Pat. She said where is he. He's eating lunch and she walked up there I remember. She came out five minutes later and she looks and she goes. You can have your clubs clean from now on. Do you understand me. Yes ma'am to this day awesome. Go look at my golf bag and Utah. Lv a few party dirty clemens myself wrapper on it though. Give that story too but I mean that's I I think that's kind of like a lot of teaching roses. Journeys is that we've all kind of had that dream of one point to play realize the money to be made not playing for us because we don't have whatever that little factor is that allows us to make consecutive cuts win or whatever but you you've already nobody deal But you can't let into my question I had for you was who obviously Totski was your one of your first coaches and at big influence where he but who were in Ballard and ledbetter who are some of the guys at influence your coaching style or really kind of help you develop a knowledge for teaching and kind of like you know Sparked that fire for you a little bit man and that's you know I don't know maybe it was the way I was brought up Matt but you're kind of the same way of I saw people trying to go. I invented invented this. And you're like no you didn't for years so even as a young instructor it was always about you know. Well you know a guy like Bob Tosca to say this. So I I I never ever hijacked any of the information but I tried to take some parts that really seemed so critical to what those guys taught Tostki obviously was huge on the lag. Because he's like I hit the ball. Two point five eight yards per pound. Nobody else does that. How do I do it okay? ledbetter was one where I was like he immediately mmediately made sense to me because he was a tall lanky. Dude Body frames match up and it was like. Oh my gosh okay. I totally get this. The club goes back. Steve for it comes down more shallow and and for those of you who are listening and watching. That was about thirty five years ago. They did that and now George Jenkins doesn't go. This is the next phase in golf. And you're like it was great because I saw that article and you did too and even better. I've been an advocate of this for a long time and it's great to see even a guy like liber saying it's great to see that this is kind of coming back in so so how. How did it formulate? I tried to pick the pieces. That were the easiest to understand Ballard connection. How can you not get that? You can have your body going one way and your arms going another. I mean you. Can you just gotTa be really lucky flexible and you know I mean I kind of start to think about other people report Joe Lopez who was literally my mentor was he would just say the coolest things at times he would say. You know when you're playing good and Joe at played the a tour Jill's father had won the senior. Pga I mean just you know one of these guys wouldn't say much all-round go when you're playing. Good you gotTa make sure sure you don't get bored. I didn't know what that meant as a kid. I still don't know what that means Like he'd get to the sixteenth hole and you go. I have hit the ball. So well today had an even-par and he goes he got bored on tensor. Sixteen because you gotta you gotTa lighten it up you gotta you gotTa Kinda ignite you gotTa make a Birdie in there somewhere because when you really on and you're hitting a good good it's real easy to low yourself to sleeping next to end. I think you have people to and and please share you know. I didn't have a chance really to get to know Chuck Cook until three or four years ago. I started to count Jim Hardy as a great friend and I didn't get to know those guys but let me tell you something. They totally influenced the way that I teach. You know hardy. Just so within reason What would you do in this situation? And to hear the Teaching Summit Tennessee PGA a couple of years ago to hear Chuck Cook Talking go so the progression is basically basically this one a golfer starts. He destroys the club at the ball and then he learns that if he doesn't quite as hard he can hit the ball a little better and then any starts to learn about this thing called lag adds distance and then he gets a lot of leg. He's Zil almost get to the tour almost almost. He's this close close but the guys are on tour they learn they learn how to control the like. Sometimes they haven't sometimes they. Don't you know you're sitting on. This is all the other stuff you've read got. You just hear this big. That's the only thing I needed to take from today. So guys like and I've had a chance to spend time with them as friends and the coolest part is to go. You have no idea how you've influence fluence might teach. Mike Adams is the is the only thing that I have a lot of things I regret but in golf I go the fact that I never got to be kind of one of your disciples but I might come on advantage in a bounce stuff towards me all the time and I'm like Mike I count. You is just like a great friend but you're I mean his passionate always look look at what's next what's next what's next. It's he's never happy sitting on what he is. And it's c-can utley secrets. Great Secrets prodded me. He Goes Union. Learnt take a month off and just go get a club go get your wedge. Go out on the golf course before. Everybody's Aaron Go. What would help them? What what would happen if I put it off my back foot? What would happen if I put it off? What would happen right you know? And just and that's that's being around other guys like that is really really cool when that was my curiosity because like just from you know the time we've had to get working here for the last three years it's been interesting to me because sitting on your lessons. It's always been like my friends. Stanley showed me this. My friends secret. Show me that my friend Mike Show and I'm sitting there going. He's got so many friends. I just want to have friends like yours like it was so that's kind however my question is coming from is like you have so many great nuggets that I've seen a drop in your in your lessons and and you always do a good job of like you said You'd never created anything in the sense like you probably have some of your own little sayings and `ISMs and they're the mental coach Guy and and but you have. You always give credit to the coach. You're taking that idea from in the lesson to and you've always in that thing that's always something that I think. In my opinion the great coaches do because they realize like like this isn't new material right but this is applicable in like this little piece of pilot this tiny little p. due to right hand here of the short game do that and Indus try that and see how that goes in. Doesn't have to be like everybody stopped but it's just yours today. Like have fun with it. And that's why I always Kinda like Meyer with your tune-ups is like I may. I don't know if I could catalog all the different nuggets. You have catalogued in there in that mental rolodex. Why I count those guys friends because I promise you I will? We'll pay you back the money I owe you that but it is. You know it's it's I hate to say it's kind of like that Seinfeld episode with what is it campaign gold. It's all of a sudden somebody says something and your brain. Just you know you're taking it all in and all of a sudden your brain just goes. I mean the floodgates open. That's the important part of this. You know and that was something that Virgil through me when I was a young up and comer he's like when you're first getting into it. Everything seems like a Golden Nugget. Like everything's like all my guys is so cool you know now that And then they're like as you start to mature and you start to form you start to see patterns and you start to see like certain things recur then all of a sudden like when you go to seminars like all the things that keep showing up like well. Yeah I knew that. Yeah that makes sense and then like those little golden nuggets you pick up become like one or two like you said like you rip the sheet of paper. This is all all I need here for today. You know and that's was. SS Worth Will Matt your product of one of the great programs through the the GM universities Mississippi sippy state And one of the coolest things about that environment that I get to do is go teach some of those universities absolutely and and to me some of those golden nuggets come from the youngest freshest minds when they look at you and they got Mr. How wouldn't it be easier just to tell me to narrow my stance so yes it would? But wouldn't it be easier to tell me you know to point my right toe at twelve. AWW o'clock or one central. If it's you know those when you hear those ordinary things and you realize folks for those of you that don't know and I can't imagine can you don't know if you've listened to this before mad is probably as advanced technology and the science of the Games anybody out there but when you hear just uh of very simplistic comment go. Wow that would accomplish five minutes worth explanation on my part but then the good news is if they ask you you will. Why does that work? Then you can kinda. Here's why. Download them yeah. No and I think that's part of what we have to do is coaches in ever dive into a form on facebook book Pity you for jumping into those loopholes but But like I think what we have to do as coaches we have to understand what happens and then to be able to you relate to the person who doesn't care right. That's kind of like your average Joe. I don't really care. How form rotates I just WanNa where the heck? I put my hand on the club. That's what that's the way I enjoy watching us like you make it as simple. I mean I've seen some of the most simple terms come out of your mouth for a person to deliver a golf club on my man that seems easy and there's a lot more going on there but that person hasn't realized how much more is happening that might be from one of my prior job so you can eat that in or are you going to go on a super size that yeah no I mean that's and so what am I question for you right and and I wanna get into the PGM him and route two is ill. How did you get into because you was at the Horton Smith? Where do you want to the national level all right last year? And so you've been given back to coaches like myself and I think you probably came. I mean I don't remember much college days but if you you've been given back to the pros like me in going and teaching at these schools and not just you know state but all twenty some odd programs in the country now and then you're doing the faculty woody staff for the PJ for the guys that aren't in the programs are still trying to go through the levels. I mean you've done a lot. How was your drive to get into that? And what have you taken away from it. I say that's my my parents upbringing. And that's got to be that thing. It's like when you get when you set a goal and you get to where you want not where you're ready to rest but when you set a goal and you reach it you need to set another goal and you need to look behind you and help other people recycle and you know that. That just seemed like when I first got into the PGA like this is kind of something you know that. There's my golden. How do I help some others along the way and literally you and I both know every year we get our PGA pack and for those listening or watching? It's this neat little envelope. That comes every year sometimes about the middle December. It has zero bound. The has you're you're paying the calendar. Yes there are still a lot of old schools of us that we write all our lessons down but it used to come in there and they would have some other things on insurance and then they had application in there about the PGA Faculty and I went and talked to the president of our section at that time or the excuse me executive director was oh my gosh. I'm drawing a blank Jerry. I'm going to think of his name. He was in north Florida forever. Oh my gosh. She's he's GonNa it. Come to you like and a half an hour after we close the broadcast. But you know I said would you support me in this or would you kind of. He said I'll write a letter order for you immediately. He goes the not too many people want to do that. They want to keep seeing. What can I take from the PGA? And how he goes the minute. I see somebody like that. I'll do that right away. So yeah that that was key and then I got to go interview for it and realized it was about kind of a you got to be able to know the materials be have to be able to present resent them which I think you know. As an added blessing I've be- become a much better presenter from taking materials that originally originally started out on a black and white slide point in your like well this is. How long does this go for eight hours? We're going to lose most of them in the first twenty three minutes unless we lighten this up a little all cell right. That's that's helped a lot in that of course with the advent of all the other universities schools. That's been a big thing to be able to do that. And it's if if you talk to anybody on that faculty it is just so much fun. We leave with more than what we give them. And I I don't know how to explain that but if we learn something every one of them and you guys energized. John is the heck out of us. Well it's always fun being around that like that youth or the maybe not using some of the cases where you're going to teach PROZAC. been you know you haven't done the bookwork yet. I've been in business for a while but like that energy to be a part of something bigger right and it's you know being a PJ pro having that logo next game is kind of like a step stone as golf professional and for me like when I was a young guy. Watching all these presenters come through the PJ program you know it was always for me. It was like you know the the the things I always like you know. What was their story you know? Who did they follow like? I don't know I'm trying to go. See who they were following an learn from them. But like you said like I've I. I had my first opportunity to go back to Mississippi State in present and somehow got roped into to our class before that and then present it to the whole program for an hour and then did it now and a half dinner and I was like holy crap. Crap lasers seven hours at teaching. Wasn't ready for but the end of the day like you know you put something back into my you know in the Mi- cylinders about just you know reset it reset resetting my focus towards being a better pro right and I think that's the fun stuff that you bring an energy because I mean look me and learn office not the most fun subject. Well you bring an energy energy that I think is second to none because like I don't know like you must be injecting coffee straight into your veins or something because it's I I think denies you're you're right. They're like when you go to present. The energy you bring to. The table is is awesome and couple of other friends that are in that Alison Kurt and Jeff Smith or also on the faculty I self with the same people have that the ability to click. You know what I mean and and relate. I think that's what we have coaches right. I mean have that blew everybody. Yeah you you gotta get the other person whether it's a golf student WHO's there on the T. or PGA student. Who's there in the desk? You gotta get them to be able to open their mouth and share share some of their experiences. You know this is kind of weird. You and I got an interesting conversation yesterday. A little bit about because I know you do a lot more social media stuff to me which means needs if you type one line on social media. You're one hundred percent in front of me being there pecker on the keyboard but you know the difference between maybe a A person who teaches all the time and I think we were talking about rates or detonation. Then compared to the person who might be the general manager had professional their are there. Abilities may be the same. But there's there's different drives behind it and when you go and you go to these classes and in summer at the university levels and others are people who are already working in the industry you know right now the PGA were revamping the education a lot but to sit in a room and kind of go out of sixty eight people. How many of you really WANNA teach this game and five or six people raise their hand that kind kind of makes it a pretty elite area to begin with not elitism? But like there's not a whole lot of people WanNa do this and then you. I always ask the question. How many of you you dread that you're going to be asked to give a lesson someday? There's four or five that raised their hands. Yeah and the funniest part is when you get done with those seminars. Generally it's one of those people that don't WanNa give a lesson that will say the Golden Nugget in you go. I want you to know what a good instructor looks like in there like all of a sudden they go. We'll just do this and you're like yeah right I mean well and and to that point though is like when you're talking about having somebody so far away from that I've I've had a chance to work with Some advisors and mentors here in the last two months and this one guy. He's he's not really connected with golf much. He's got like the oldest set of clubs. Everybody but I have have an idea. I'm trying to push through to him and he's sitting there. Just lighten my Swiss cheese and just punching holes through it but to your point though. What he's he's able to do is as a golf pro? We sit there and are passionate to teach teach them co teach them pros or teaching other. Golf pros are passionate to be there and we're our like our faces like one inch away from our hand is how close we are to it and then to have somebody who's as far away from that as they can be they're the ones loans that could potentially give us ideas that were too close to see right. And it's Kinda late in the best way I can do about it. I have two kids now under three right. I can't be standing over one and and see the other at almost the end of the driveway watching them reopen down the street so I can see both and that's kind of the same perspective I think we have to have as coaches. Sometimes we get are knows straight up in it and they were so close. We can't see it you know. I think that's where that's interesting because I think that's where I've been learning here lately like like sometimes it's good to take that thirty thousand view perspective once a month and reevaluate what we're doing and so when you're talking about the new stuff the PG is bringing to us as coaches which is right. Because even since I was in school in my teaching mail was printed in nineteen eighty six than I was right. What are some of the new stuff that you guys are trying to teach to to the coaches now? That is different from yours pass. Well you know a couple of things and I think you and I know I think it's the fourteen the ball flight aalto. Laws Aren't laws their preferences. The nine ball flight laws. That was a really shapes and everybody gets all of a sudden into this literary quandary. You're wrong long married. I'm like well all you guys are leaving out the one and they like. What does the whiff with? The ball didn't fly but it was intended to fly and that guy's mind it was really intended to fly as right so a lot of the technology that's come about including the track. Man's that we've always talked about half and phase and so now there's a lot of maybe downward angle and eat we smash factor and all these things but we're trying to get you too. I know that's one thing. They talked about a lot in terms of the laws principles and preferences that we're teaching kind of a down angle and how that might affect i. I believe at one point. It might have been called the deplane right another point. It's the face capacity to help. This is getting complicated for a lot of because even the even the young kids are like look at still kind of is has something to do with where that faces point. And that's the beauty of this thing right science and everything so we're trying to it gets some of these terminologies that the younger professionals are going to see right away because even though the track man is a I don't even what is twenty. Seven thousand dollar hurt Brandel Chamblee. And and I will quote him on this and quote his retraction which even endeared him even more to me because I love the way that dude prepares for stuff but he originally at one conference said it was a thirty thousand dollar toy which did not make a a lot of people in the room happy but the next time he spoke to the same conference e quizzically looked out and he goes. I think there was a problem with the mic on the last one. I actually the thirty thousand dollar tool. That's very useful for. You could save and I mean it was great but there is you know. Here's the key. That is a very expensive piece of equipment and who amongst us as instructors new. There's a whole lot of people for goodness out. That are buying it for themselves. Well now they're coming to you talk in a different language right right and if you can't speak you and I know right away if we can't speak their language they're not. We're not gonNA help them now. All of a sudden they're asking you questions so we're seeing a lot of that terminology legiti and we're seeing a lot about the things that have been in there for so long including when you went through. PGA The way people learn. Yeah and I think there's the other part to before you go to the laypeople. I wanted to go down that route. There there's a lot more freedom in most pros share all these things that we're learning. That's been a big change since I've left. College is like instead of like some guy in California trying to keep his secrets because he's afraid some guy here in Tennessee is going to be teaching that client lion of his that somehow going to take from California like now all everybody is willing to you go to instagram or youtube videos of all kinds of stuff and now so now the information that's being shared is not just coming to us pros right and you don't have to be Toros together give stuff down either right you can just be like me. Just teaches teaches your average person in the day in in have that quality information now but then also your students or seen it because it's readily available on you do as though to your point you have to know the material and when somebody comes in talking to you about the relationship such and such and you're sitting there going. I don't know what you're talking about me night. That's not a good thing. There's and boy I'll tell you what and I know. You have a lot of variety of listeners. And I'm going to talk to the guys is who are golf instructors on this part the minute. You don't know something don't fake it does L. Vacant look and go. You know what I didn't see that poster. I didn't and see that piece on you know covering the left quadrant of the ball. Can we both look at that together. Because odds are were both going to get smarter. And that's I'll tell you something. Working working at the highest level with some of the highest level players. They ask you questions at times. And you don't know the answer and all you have to do is fake it once and you'll get called out on it your way better and and I'm talking about exactly what you're talking about. This is the beauty of it right. Now everybody's sharing the information out there and but when your student comes to you and says you know what is it about the Heliotrope Lex. You're like I think that's an ingredient sunscreen. Yeah do you determine it but there's literally it that is the that as an instructor and as a student that could probably be the coolest part of a lesson we're both view are growing on the T.. And so that is another thing about the communication about going. You're going to get so much information. Different genre it was called time management but today it's called time management because you can't possibly be everywhere and look at everything right. You got to kind of pick your battles a little bit about you and I were. I would say we're more positive give people And there are definitely there are haters out there. I'm not I don't know any of them but I've seen the post and I'm like man it just you get a chance to go. Hit a golf ball. What a cool deal? Oh you did it all wrong. It's the best shot they ever hit. It's all perspective. Yeah so that's that's been in part of it that the there's so much information out there so we're trying to help the next generations. Organize it manage their time and then learning how people learn. And that's that's is the most important part because you once you learn how people learn and you hear we're getting a little deep here but like going. Wait a minute. I thought golf products to fix light all the time I get it but once you learn how they learn then you and this is what makes a good lesson with you. This is what makes it good lesson with me folks in all seriousness on the other side of this. You have no idea the cartwheel's that we are doing in our minds when when these particular things happen you get through a lesson and you know that you said the right thing at the exact right time and there's a tiny bit of you turn around and go gasoline fist puppet. But that's it's as much an accomplishment for us as it is for the student absolutely. Yeah the hamster wheel in my brain is always running. But so you're right though about like when you deliver the message as a coach and like you know like my wife. Everyday I leave work. Can we talk on the ride home or whatever she's like well. How how'd you lessons today? Like I have that have that reflection moment. I run like every lesson in my head from that day and you sit there and you're like yep today was going yeah I killed it yeah a crush it and then there's Go home and research and stuff. Because I'm pretty sure I whipped on today. I want to go home and send this guy. No afterwards I I told you don't do that destroyed and you especially with as many as you were with your like because they not only they talented did not only do these swing the club incredibly fast. They make progress a lot faster than most players. Because they're just they're just into it and you're like I got to stop this kid before he gets so far down this road and that's it and that's what I was going to pick your brain about being out on tour and then we can dive into that now is so. It's always amusing to me when you work with different players. Because is there some that are like I. Call them like the exaggerated right like you give them like. They're super laid off. And you tell them to get across the line as far as they can to come matt suckers over their head in like straight up point right on target to first base unbelievable and I go back right. And then you've got the ones that are like they have the illusion like they're exaggerating it but and they made marginal gains. And so you know like those guys. We're going to be the ones that you're going to have kind of constantly pushing keep putting things in the way in and making them. Have that change. When you get out to the tour level and you're working with some you worked with the best you know Stacy Lewis and some of the also better LBJ players? What's it like working with them when you're trying to make a change because you're not just talking about improvement that point you're also talking about dollars you know and and so when you start to change there has to be a the narrow behind it at the end of the day to be worthwhile changing it? So how do you pick something the change and then how do you convince them. I'm to maybe exaggerate that feeling to make that change you know while they're trying to play like how does that conversation work. You want us that question again. I I don't know yeah real changes and maybe here's something that the average golfer can pick up real changes happen in the off season. They really they do when a player says I can't. I can't stand seeing the semi swing anymore. You know you're right. It's it's money and you gotta go okay. Okay so at some point. How could we start trending it in another direction? I mean I always I use the swing plane as an example you know so. Many instructors draw the little cone right there air and it's too upright it's too shallow steep. It's to whatever and Kinda going okay if it's too here let's make sure it's it's heading that way if it's too here let's make sure it's heading that way my job when you're out onto and I'm only using swing plane as an example but it's to Kinda go maybe it's takeaway you turning bring your body too soon as the too far inside to outside my job is how can we trend towards the middle and not jump to the other side right away because you know the minute you jumped to the other too far outside next thing you're too far inside and you're like this is going to affect their income. Sure Yeah and then on top of that the cat yanking like you whole lot either because his income is a little bit yeah his beer. Money's getting out there. It's much more about. Can you pay pay attention when see when they start to drift the wrong way and you know this and I know this as a player you get them to a position. Where they're they're very comfortable? We know it from our own games. Every player knows it from their own game. Oh cool I'm not crossing the line anymore and I love you know late. Offer crossing the crossing the lines. That nemesis that I've been plagued with all my life and I can remember Gary Gilchrist and Michael Haywood both worked with Allison. Walsh got the club done online. I remember walking over to her and a practice run in a tournament. I said I know we're friends and I know I'm not your instructor but I wanNa tell you something. This is a battle. You're going to have to fight all your life because the minute ah you go I got it and put it on autopilot. It's going to go right back where it was so the reason I'm using that example is when you're when you work with those players and they're really illegal. Gosh it feels so good. Now is the time as an instructor to kind of go. My job is to pay attention. The minute starts go the other way. We're GONNA throw some drills and things in there. Does that make accent. Oh absolutely in that thing that leads to like your. We're heading into that offseason outright. And I'm about to next week my winter program for the next four months. The seventeen got signed up to do this thing where hitting hard and heavy right and I think that that's a great thing to give to a bunch of parents that are trying to coach their kid while they're trying to determine terminus becomes hard so what our tour players doing all in the on season when they're playing off putting's offer a month right. How how do they? How do you make an a chain? Or how were they looking to address their issues. So what are they doing the on season in the on season I mean they they all of them know the part of their game. I'm that's lagging. And the funniest part is sometimes the part they think is lagging the caddy goes. It's not the driver. It's the wedges. Trust me it's awesome. I mean they're eighty yards away there in the first rough they can get the ball close to the green. It's not the driver. So knowing and they know it from performance they know it from the numbers and the stats that they keep and then it becomes. I think if you look like a Mike Bender or any of these other coaches that coached so many of those high level Gary Gilchrist one. I feel like I needed name. Every human being that's ever impacted me and they all have sub read it for every other coach. We don't mention. Yeah no obviously John Elliott. Who's like I mean? He's he always had sharpie marker on him he'd get more done with sharp market. Anybody I've ever seen as crazy but to watch what those guys will to Gary Crystal Start trying to get them to hit a different type of shot your drawing the ball too much. Let's face it. Why because this course and this course you're going to need some fades? Let's let's but he knows it's going to make a change in the swing. Mike Bender is gonNA come along. Go I have some new games free to practice some new drills for you to try. He's not going to tell them about changing their swing but he's GonNa Nego- okay putting. I'm not making enough birdies. Why don't you practice putts over thirty feet? Okay because if you can to those you're going to you're not gonNA make a birdie eighty but we're not thrown a stroke away and if you happen to chip one close on a par five we're GonNa make so during the season you see a lot of not necessarily tinkering with the swing. But if they're going to take her with anything it's the fundamentals I mean. How many if you had to guess she would say ninety nine point nine percent of the time you would go? What's the most obvious fundamental? All that they kind of. They don't necessarily overlook but someone comes to you and you go. I'm pulling everything I hope. So your aim twelve yards right you know and it's literally but it's kind of like a nun all of a sudden. I me as a great example last week down at the CME been spending a good the amount of time with Lexi Thompson. Who is an incredible human being and really gifted athlete? Just hit the ball so good and even her her dad add kind of look back at me and he goes. She's into low right on some of those isn't she and I go. Yeah but they're going right and it became one where the message essentially went to the caddy and it was like if you see when we get beyond ten yards start you guys start trying to pick a spot at five yards right a target. Do not don't straighten that person out. Because you know where that shot is going and a lot of I mean if it's a fundamental thing to me it's aim and if if it isn't aim it's ball position and boy those to get really interrelated when you start getting off line and it's amazing the number of amateurs that don't believe in that's like the two biggest thing tour player go sir. I like those two variables alone. Will Jack your world up so bad. If you don't get that right and and the ball position was the sneaky. One I think. Oh Yeah Right. Because that's the one that's like an inch back or an inch in each out. Whatever it means is that small little tuna wreck you you know one one of the coolest things you can do is go to a tour event and watch these guys and you'll just sit in the teen again? Why is the aimed at the bunker? and His caddy's had he's been back they're going aimed between the two bunkers and the minute the caddy leaves. He adjusts itself. Goes back there so yeah that is totally. That's something that you got to work on every day and that's what I tell. My kids like like when when they all the kids. I work with our spiring to go play on television one day right and it's really hard to get to that phase but I always sound like. Yeah it's great to go. Assume on the golf course might sure absolutely do that but go spend your morning on the driving range before anybody's really out on the track. Get their like seventy eight o'clock in the morning whenever the gates open and and watch these guys warm up and notice all the little idiosyncrasies all the little trinkets that are out there. Everybody's doing something to kind of you know like I don't call I call like it's just like a simple little like oil. Change tire rotation is real quick. We're not putting the Ferrari engine in a pinto when you were just going on there. We'll touch up. Make sure they know where the line is where the ball is dropping and they're going to go play it and I had the opportunity to to work with a couple of guys that had a chance to play for a while and that was one of the most shocking things that I heard was shocking bill. One of the things I've walked away from learning was at your when he would warm up on the range and he'd spent ten years out on tour playing. He said that he was so close to neutral. They like some days he'd walk up stand. They're aiming to target ball falls left. All right we're planning to draw today. And then next day goes I was out Bam hitting the fade. And we're planning to you today right and they don't know correct. No in this mentality. That tore players work the ball all like they're always making it. I mean I read this one. I had a tune-up with a guy who's atop avenue in the state and I WANNA learn to work at the other way whatever. Just show me Your Your Stock Fade Twenty Yard power harding slice is I call it. A fade unlike. That's US THAT'S A. That's a pretty hard slicer bro in so I think it's again it kind of speaks back to the difference tuna program like amortized. This envision like wanting to be able to draw backlift lag nate backlift. You're probably better interoffice hitting the military and then to Puttin we. We should write while I was gonNA throw three things in there but on that I note one of them is a it if you have the luxury of playing golf course. It's closed on Monday. They don't they. Don't put the flags in beautiful thing. Go play yeah you'll have the best day of your life when you absolutely will have the best day of your life. We'll just wake your brain up to go. Why in the world? I hit anywhere else in the center of the Green. And that's basically what faucets thing is right now. I mean that's I mean that's decade. That's what the the the old time players used to say from one hundred yards in us the length of the flagstick wherever that flagstick electric fits. That's where you're gonNA in the green one hundred one hundred fifty two flag sticks two hundred more three four. Yeah and and so I mean. It's a real simple the way to do that. But you know the warming up part. There's there's something that I've seen Stacy Lewis do and I've seen four or five other players do it and it's kind of one of those things that I'm always like. I don't tell other players about it but I kind of wait till see when it happened so a good warm up is exactly what you say. Seen seen what you've got that day and his stacy gets near the end of her warm up and she does it every time she looks at Travis and they figure out what club they're gonNa hit on the first hole. It's not necessarily a driver. Sometimes it is they pick a target out on the range. And then Travis looks in the book and gets the Yardage in the pin placement for the first par-three uh-huh and they hit that. Shot exactly a couple of PUTTS and then they go to the T.. I mean it's just and there's no surprise in the first couple of holes. You know you're kind of like what's what am I gonNA head on. What am I gonNA ahead onto in the first part three? What are we looking at? Its four and why might as well hit one of those again just so I'm familiar with that show and and that's what you people. Here Tiger Dune to write he'd always oh three yards and then Hogan said that he played thirty six every day right. He played eighteen in his head and then eighteen on the course and I think that's where a lot of a lot of kids I'll have to change mentality of like I needed. They have this mentality of Anita hit every shot perfectly straight on the driving range. The have a good day and I'll blow their minds. hands-off said look ahead three plus rounds where I have legit shanked it in the first ten swings multiple times and then shot sub seventy. Then I have absolutely stoned driving ring session and not broken seventy five. I don't put any way into my warm-up dude if you believe in carver you don't want to leave all those good shots out in the field right Years years ago having spent four five years with Juli inkster one of the first times. I've got to watch our warm up. I don't know she'd probably hitting her seven iron I and hit one of those little scooters scooters that they started to take a step towards her and she goes oh that she goes. Don't worry about that. She goes any great round. I've ever overplayed shanked the ball on the ranch. That's awesome nearly all of it and like hall of fame. That's the next thing she says she goes. I figured that chuck out into the Hall of fame. I'm I'm like that's awesome way to look at it. You know you're talking about kids and there's there is a lot of pressure on kids and as they learn different things. I want to bring something out here. Real quickly that I've noticed and I noticed it in the good players and I actually had a chance to to complement lexi on a ton recently. I said you have tremendous patients. She's like I have no patience whatsoever and I know there is a different kind of patients that good players have and when you're talking about doing when things in the swing and May in this Kinda ties into how do they make changes out there. It's like give me a tiny little bit and let me see what I can do with that right. And when I'm when I'm good with it I'll ask you for another tiny little bit. I mean I've watched stacey do that on her takeaway and I mean you know you might be talking about the first twenty inches the swing. She's he's like give me the first this far. And let's see how we do on that you know and it's kind of like once you get comfortable but the good players when they need to make a change of when they need to tweaks something they will just take the smallest most manageable part and go. Let me see how far we go with this and not that other players onto or not good players but there are some that Oh okay I got it now. What's next right got that too now? What's next can we get to the downswing right and you and I both know there's some gelling that takes effect act when you change some things on the back swing test water? Yeah and all of a sudden folks this whole thing is over in about one point eight seconds. And if you're spending your whole time thinking but I've noticed stat over and over again with good players who continue to get a decent score out of their game and go you know. And they're looking. There's nothing wrong. Some people make a year long commitment. Go this is is GonNa hurt. But I'm going to change it. I'm going straight Mac O'Grady or I'm GonNa do this and but I mean that's your job out there and if you gotta go the good good ones seemed to just take enough medicine just to kind of get a taste. And let's see how good we get an ED. I think sometimes parents in juniors. It's we're all enthusiastic theatric. We want the next step but Kinda go now's when your stats in your track. Man's and all the other your force plates. We're still making a difference here at still getting better right. When you see that go stagnant you might go? And now we're ready for the next difference between looking at a short term development long term development. Ramey like what's the with kids like what's what's the end goal like is there and Golda playing high school teams in goal to play on TV. And if your goals to play on TV then you can't be worried about this summer. Like that is does not matter. It doesn't matter if you play golf or not if you're going to try and play on TV because there's plenty of guys who didn't and don't play it vanderbilt. We're here you know. They're playing on television. So I again. I think that was a great little nugget for the parents out there. As you know one little thing time let them see where it goes because you never know also what happens when you poll one nugget out of domino chain how that's GonNa affect the chain does keep going forward or is it. Stop you know the flow of water or is it just like a band aid over. Something need stitches. Or is it pitch one things going to change and what they could change six things you just don't know I heard Now murder the rambling part. But it is. It's all talking about juniors and and we've mentioned folks we've mentioned college a couple of times and boy you WanNa talk about this. Summer isn't important for you. This summer may be there's is always the perception on the side of the high school player in the High School parent. That this this summer is vital or this tournament is vital. Four your own. My Gosh the coach from Kansas State. And then the coach from East Tennessee. You're going to be at this tournament. I had a player that and it was just the coolest thing because they came back and they said I blew it and they said I I know I didn't blow it but I had the worst cold and she's like I shot eight shots higher than I always shoot. She goes I just. I couldn't she goes I. I barely made needed around for two days. And she goes. I know I blew my chances with those coaches because of what my stroke averages and how I've been playing and Tuiti I got a call from one of those coaches literally twelve hours later. WHO said I am more impressed with this young lady? Now then what a stat shown the fact that she so I guess what I'm trying to say is how you handle yourself at adversity or not playing your best day. That might say way more than Oh. I won the southern juniors two years in a row L. completely agree limbaugh and Allen over here at Vanderbilt. I mean I've heard it from multiple coaches that. They'll they'd rather see. How do you do when you suck and then can you grind grind out around? And don't let it turn into an incomplete implosion salvage around and keep it whatever sub seventy five or eighty. Whatever it has to be to keep that coach entertained compared to what you normally issue but you know they if you can show them you can grind? And they'll dig it you know. They're always about that They have a long term. Look at it is this person GonNa fit into the team good. Are they going to inspire the rest of the team to go guys. Somehow I got in the clubhouse. Let's go back out there. And make sure that jared gets right. Yeah yeah so what was what's been one of your more. I mean obviously probably have a lot of favorite experiences from running around the LPGA for so long. What are some of the more memorable moments you've had chasing the lady pros out there? Well I mean there's there's a couple of them and I tell you one of the well there's two what am I remember years back onto where we played in the what is now the La Open. Open and I think I was the Kea at that point and there still is a key that we were played at city of Industry and had so much rain that night folks. It was just what I say. The place was underwater. I mean it was really underwater. Modern Day we kinda basically had to walk around a whole to get into the driving range and I remember Stacey was working on something on in her backswing and it really. You know I mean it was starting to take shape and you know just for those of you. That don't know I I mean you know. We do have a required uniform of khaki pants and a white shirt. Not Really. But I'll be darned if you don't see us out on tour and that's what most of us are wearing except for David Waylon who is johnny cash is when brother he just doesn't realize it. It's blacks I always look at the bandwidth black pants and black shirt and you have on Tuesdays Pants with Wendy sturt uh-huh and it was just soak down there and I had this little drill that I wanNA stacey to do warming up. And she's got her seven iron and I I love my parents at my shoe is a maybe three inches from the ball. All right just take it back. It'll be fine. And she goes okay and she just flushes it. She looks at me and she goes. I don't know if I had to stood there and I go. What kind of lame pro by went and hid behind your bag with an umbrella takeout ready claiming there you gotta put yourself? You'RE GONNA put a little bit of your own skit in that game and you know there was. There was one year that sometimes when the pressure is on you learn things and the the. US girls were playing the Solheim Cup in Colorado Club and Stacey literally had flown over and that was literally they flow from the British Open. And it's the one where she had birdied seventeen and won the British open and literally folks. You're you're just. You're just looking ETA player and you know what I'm looking at. is she lined up properly literally. I mean you're looking at someone at the top of their game and I'll never forget this. I said well I'll kind of scoot over there and I'll see on the first tee and she goes no no she goes just walked bridge with me so they had a bridge for the like they do in the PGA Championships in the open. That the contestants walk over to get to the I T and they kind of walk under the grandstand and we got over about half over the I T and she looks over at me and she goes so. Do you have any advice for me. When I can't feel my hands in about three minutes uh-huh I go? Yes see if you can find your thumbs. And so she goes okay. Sure so we walk over there and you know Kinda sucks to the caddy and whatever else and she goes up and she's just rifles this ball down the middle and I'm kind of hiding over in the corner and she literally looks over at me sheepishly. She put the driver in the bag. And I get the two thumbs up signal thumbs. We literally we chatted after the round and she goes. How did you ever come up with that? And I'm like Oh honey that drop straight from heaven. I didn't have time to just said the first thing they find interventionist Finest right there. That's exactly what it is but it's those little things where there's a nugget of gold. IBM At some point. Why I think that comes with coach? Somebody for I mean how. How long have you been statement? Seven plus ten ten this year. He's ten years and that's just kind of goes back to like the. It's the long you you get to work with somebody. Then we'll get to know about them right and then he started to see like the little the lazy Sunday she always does when she warms up on the Rangers. They'RE GONNA pick that up right or in like you the US coach. And it's kind of like when I tell parents is like because I tell them I look. I don't know your kids. Was You know your kid but I'm telling you right now. I'm seeing something right right now. That I haven't seen him be doing I would go ahead and just go ahead and go ahead and get the autograph pen ready because the things about you know or like they're just right there and like I've had. I had a kid when the the state junior right and for three terms in a row before sub seventy round leader in the clubhouse waffled second day as I do your right there. Just keep kicking that door. It's GONNA come in. Just keep doing it and I can call him. He's a he's just so frustrated. You can't use it hasn't gotten it done yet. And then like doc goes out win by six five hundred some crazy in in all my this is this is your moment. I knew I knew it was coming right. You need to know who's coming. That's why that's that is huge. Because the best players in the world they look their our goal is to win. I mean underlying. It's a you know they they all say the same thing. Just give me a chance right. I'm not GonNa win them all but get me in a position where I have a shot at it. That's what their workers every very rarely s white him just lead wire-to-wire. That's a very rare thing but it's it's about. Just keep putting yourself in position if you keep. Britain knocked down. Just keep Joanna Klatten said something one year and she's one of the longest drivers evers out. There she goes. I don't think the goal of this whole thing to see how hard you can hit it. It's to see how hard you can get hit and get back up and I was like where did you. What book did you pull that out? Because that's but that's that's really you know you're GonNa win the goal is you just gotTa keep getting into position. And that's the more that that happens and that's you know there's the motivating thing for parents is to go there. If they keep getting a position. See person that one. They've never been in position. They one might be a long time before to get back into position against right so we look guys like that. have been on tour for a long on-time right in in in ladies. They've been on tour and they just keep getting these top twenty finishes right and they're just habitually there and it's it's the column Montgomery's he's never winning a major kind of fill for a long time to write. It's like if you just keep hanging around it. As soon as that floodgate opens then the lids popped off and all of a sudden. It's ooh I knew this little thing to win and it can do that. Something silly it is totally something silly going. I need to go for one less than around or yeah I need to. Yeah Yeah I mean that's getting yourself in position as what the best players in the world definitely do it and so talking about the best players you had a chance to be alongside with the Solheim Cup squad a couple of times and you get to be in those situations in in watched the literally the best women golfers on the planet competing against each other. What's that arena like compared to like your average toward a I was feel like appellate secrets here? But I'm not because it's one of those things in. Oh Gosh where was it was in des Moines and we were. It looked like we were GONNA win but it was kind of a little close and Paul I remember walking down the sixteenth fairway and with a Stacey Gerena Juli inkster and and you know it's kind of cool to be able to be like right in the middle of the fairway and Paula. Creamer was playing that whole and the cabins are allowed to walk over and talk to them and so Polit looks at her and she goes to Julie she goes a what do you got for me. She goes duly still extent. She Goes Paula. Give it your best goes. That's it that's all you got and she goes all right. Then give it more than Your Best Austin. It's almost to see someone crackup under what was clearly becoming a pressure filled situation. You know from that standpoint if it was such a great finish almost right to the Solheim Cup this year but Marina. Alex who who's a vandy student and worked with a guy named Ian triggs right now. Who's WHO's great friend and I had the pleasure of working with marina for many years through school? One getting out on tour and it came down to that you know that final hole and it was her and Suzann Pettersen is anybody that watched it knows. Suzanne knocked it up about eight feet and after it was all done. Suzanne made the made the pot. But I remember I chatted with Marina after that and I said I can't tell you how proud I am of you. I said what you did to take your wedge after Zan hit that shot and step up there and knock it eight eight feet just like she did I go. That is all those years you spent over on the little short game area at Vandy and she looks at me and she goes Joe. Oh I have no idea how he did that he goes the weirdest part is I remember. Thinking one thing that you'll he told us in the locker room is you will pull things out of your game this week that you'd never know you had and you won't know how you pulled them out of there and she was like that was clearly one of them but she goes. It gives me something going into the next which she didn't India. I think she was finished. Top live or whatever she goes I got I got a whole take here. I never even knew existed why that was going to become. I'm on my questions for you is like when you know because you know you've been around when they've been there for the first time and he's been around the veteran's who've been those situations and you hear about how getting getting on those teams can maybe push a career. Oh my gosh. Yeah so what. What have you seen from that side of the game with getting those players that that opportunity eighty to represent the US with the red white and blue? It's a whether it's male female whether it's amateur or professional when you're playing for your country. There's I I don't know what goes off at your head but it is like this is really important because it didn't have out be anymore you know. And you're like you got this other little flag-waving guide and your shoulder going. Don't forget and so everybody wants to give it a little bit extra and they don't want to take it and I think what tape fine and those players find is that pay more attention to some of the small details instead of trying to be better than they are. They don't WanNa take anything for granted and it's a small detail the thing that all of a sudden they take back to their regular game and they go you know. Let's let's key more on this on the par threes. Or you know that as you well know that a oh Gosh alternate-shot who's GonNa call it opposite ball and alternate shot l.. Literally is you're playing for your country and you don't WanNa make your playing partner mad. That's right I mean it's literally I. E Tiger filled twenty years ago. I mean I used to play an are the PGA matchplay championship. alternate-shot was a team thing. Yeah I forget I opened up talking about Mr Lopez. My mentor and I'll never I forget we're playing at longboat key. And Somehow I had the distinct honor because of the way that we chose of hitting the shots all the par threes that had five par threes that we came to the last. That's when he said no son you've left me with a bunker shot on every one of us and of course after I hit it I said well I wouldn't watch half the hit any other shot. Mister Lopez sorry left you and another bunker but practice yet so you learn kind of how your standard stock shot holds up when you realize that can hold up under that pressure the pressure that you're on under two or you can rely on your stock shot a little bit more Britney al-Tamaari who was unbelievable. You WanNa talk about a girl that could put the lights out of it. I mean to watch and watch how she handles herself and literally. Who's been a very quiet person? You can see more four of her demeanor and more of her persona open up. And it's I mean it's it's an inner confidence builder that is it's Yeah I don't know it's great to go watch because it's just a throng of people around a hole in a minute. There's a shot that's good or bad. It's if you're over in Europe you get the deal. I don't know why we don't have a song like that. Hey Hey goodbye. We're the champion anybody but yeah there's something about that that kind of solidifies what it's all of a sudden those players realize like so the way a plane normally got me onto this team because they look back and they go. I didn't think I did anything super special over the last couple of years. I was a little better at what I did tripe up till now and that's great points so who who's on the tour right now you're working with or your Around that you think people the LPGA Theodore who who's not known yet but that we should keep our eye out for. I tell you there's there's some of course the women's amador on that was down in Augusta so you had just an unbelievable finish Jennifer Cup show. Who's always been a great player? Maria fosse she's real and she's spending time I had the opportunity to That's one of the coolest things about that term and it seems like somehow David ledbetter and I get to walk along nine holes because our players and practicing together and he has been working in with Maria Fosse and he says her greatest strength is the thing that I've got to control. which is the distance that she hits the ball and it is it is folks folks? It's you WANNA talk. You WanNa see a young lady that can hit a ball that really kills it. I mean you've got players out there that can do that and have been able to do it. The LEXI Thompson Joanna Clinton's the my Gosh Laura Davies Watch her hit a ball and tell me you're going to take fifty bucks out of your pocket a buyer. Well you might be able to but hers is still in the air. But there's another young lady coming up and Van Damme from overseas about six foot tall. Just just almost an Ernie els like build swing and there's no question that distance on both the tours is incredible but uh to have that asset on the. LPGA is one of those things. Yeah if you've got a good wedge game and you can. PUTT PUTT outside thirty feet. You're you're GONNA gain strokes. Sierra Brooks is another one who has come up through the University of Florida ranks always been a very good junior golfer Lucy Lee. You're going to see both of them on the symmetric. Two or odds are one of them might get a battlefield promotion. I believe if you win three. You're automatically Kim. Kauffman was was one who did that one year. But it's it's it's pretty neat out there that game you and I talked about the game and you know at at some point. It's neat to go. Watch the avengers in the superheroes heroes play and for ninety percent of us that might shoot in the eighties nineties. I've I always kid but I'm always standing next to that forty year old guy and the gallery who's been dragged to an LPGA event against his will my junior and they see this little girl hit the ball and they go. Gypsy hits at pretty good about two seconds later and they go. Oh wait a minute. She's playing the same teams play and went by where I went. And all of a sudden there's relevance to go. Tell me how she does it because if she can do it I can do it. L. Female thing it's like she's tiny and I'm six foot three and if she can do that I can do that. Trend you're like oh now you WANNA learn you know and the thing. That's it's always a museum is like the The lady golfers man they what for for the guys bomb they hit it all over the map. The lady offers dude is precision. It is is is a joke. My wife was a pretty good collegiate Golfer. In is here with her on my you hit your hybrids hit your wedges like it is ridiculous how Australia you hit the nail hybrids in in like you go wash the ladies play and I've been a few LPGA events it's just never found me. It's like the guarantee bash like just put it down comfort to sixty down the middle please onto the next one and you're like how did they always find the center. It's and I think that's where Like Women typically. I've taught them. They're always wanting that like they're always picking at that little extra bit of information they WanNa know a little more resig is. I just don't want to tell me what I need to do. Yeah you know and I think that leads into that atmosphere where if you WANNA like go watch somebody. WHO's actually? I think much more crafted person with a golf club. Bob Go watch no. Pj Van because they're going to hit it ten times better than you'll see a tour player hit the nets. I would say if there's if there's if you wanted to talk to swing fundamentals. They do everything they can to have senator contact right they have to they want to talk about club fitting. They will do any possible thing they can to that club to get another yard out of it. The last thing they will do is literally try and swing harder than they know they can control right and you and I get to the scrambles things we played every once in a while. We really need you to go with this one. And you're like Oh boy here we go runar for my game three holes later. You can't find a fair fairway. You can't do any of that. Might be not related. Still can't find for waste but But I think that's where I think the the ladies game may think it's it's such an interesting arena now because we're actually has been because you can find these like little Alexa Thompson in her. Name's leaving right right now for the girl that was like thirteen and played in the US. Open be have some of these younger talent. Lucy Li yeah. Yeah yeah it has to be his younger talents. Show up at such a a younger age than compared to the guys like immense golf you. I'm sorry I don't care how good you are. I mean there's that one kid right seventeen I think who's got part but he's like another accession but he's not really contending. He's just out there with a women's game like Pe- a lot earlier than the guys do and you can have some legit talent Ella sixteen years old fifteen years old that you're out there going. Oh my God how are you. Good this fast and they're hitting their hybrids closer than the other players. They're hitting their eight. This crazy Roese man. And I've I've said before for the women's Game I you can absolutely have a funeral. At fifteen sixteen years old can actually go out there and compete because the way we develop developers in our adolescents ages. In forgotten like you just go ahead and park that. Wait until your mid twenties. Don't try and chase down early seriously. I mean isn't it weird. How that that phenomenon has stuck throughout almost all the years we had like Michelle was kind of like the first real big name that when she was thirteen I think was when she was is the public's champ in how she wants something else that year and then she started making her waves on the LPGA tour and then in my opinion was she got off along she could hit three hundred yards and people like why should you plan in PG events to? And that's where I think crashed in my opinion but it's a humble one but you know she was one of the I. I think that made a big splash on these little younger than me. Still you know. And she's like it's crazy. It's still young just got married and you know right now. Her physical stature and well-being is you know. is she going to be able to come back. And here's the coolest part about if that happens She got to a point in her game. uh-huh and I can tell you this from walking along side her and her caddie at KPMG and she even talked about it she goes. I love this game I really I love this game. I want to keep playing and I don't want my injuries to hold me back. You know instead of saying you know I mean it's like it was different. You know it's like yeah. She still wants wants to win. But she's like I love this game too much to not be able to play it and Athen. That's you legally Bernhardt longer. O'meara like what kind of fire is is in that news belly that he's sixty four. Eighty threes. Unbelievable shape are ridiculous as buddy sixty seventy more than me the other coach here at the club in when when you have a player that it's more than making money as about proving someone's themselves asking you got some of that's dangerous in my opinion because then it doesn't matter you know who's who watches or who knows or whatever it's like this is for me. I wanted for myself. Yeah Watch out. What is a a Matt knows? Here we have the privilege at the legends course of having a gentleman. Come out probably for so praxis. Three times a week Lou Graham. Oh I'm trying to get him on the podcast doc asked to. He's Lou is lose another one where you just sit and talk to them and all of a sudden it just a five minute conversation and you have. I'm writing that down. Yeah I mean Ed. Donahue Lewis Nineteen seventy six. US Open champion grew up here in Tennessee played a little nine hole course called the Vinnie links. I mean in your like he's out there I mean. And what's interesting is the prices. The Mos- is frigging chipping and putting yeah. That's always doing. Yeah and I've watched I've had the pleasure of watching a heck. He's asked me to see what I I thought you were asking person for is right now. He asked me that when I came and I thought I'd be better just to go. I would keep wearing that shirt with those pants. That's right right. I mean he talks about it and he other jokes he says Joe he goes Outta love this game all my life so he loved me back a few times uh-huh but I've loved it. I mean he's been on a Ryder Cup. I mean he's I mean I'm hopefully I can get him on the show too because it'd be another great conversation of you know a different generation but man. I want to be back there. Working the board on that I'll take notes for both of us are so before we wrap this thing up. I always get people to give us something to go home with breath. The show drops Friday so we usually give something to think about for the weekend. Was something that pushes you along or maybe you help us to help push your the players along. What's a little motivational? You can give to the listeners. Today Man Anat now now you caught me on the short one here man. I wouldn't what what are my dad used to always tell me. Don't count minutes. Make the minutes countinent. You know in some ways of always kind of looked at that on the Gulf aspect of it and I'm like don't count your score ahead of time. Don't count the birds you're going to have ahead of time. Make the shot in front of you really really count and you know what just for fun when I have players that have been struggling. I give them a two point scoring system. Money shot you know. And then maybe it's a higher level but aided the shot not end up where you wanted it to you get a point for that and be. Let's say if it's a Dogleg left and you're going okay. Well I gotta hit a little bit of a drawer. I gotta I gotTa make the ball turn left off the tee. Did it turn left. Yeah turn so far left at went into the woods of Hey. Would you still get a point for that because some of your shape so it's always kind of being liked. I tried to. I needed to hit this one high and get it over the tree. Why hide and one over three but went over the green? You still get a point. Don't I mean I just get a participation ribbon here. I want you to know that in every shot and now we're talking. PM Lind stuff but you gotTa have planned right and you gotTa have a result. Maybe the result turned out. Good but did you did. Did you execute your plan where you close you know and so sometimes maybe you kind of look at that and you go well you got eighteen points for or you know whatever per hole or you in you know where I'm going yes. My Math is scored high on the verbal clearly. But you know what I'm saying and it could even be on pot but maybe picked one or two shots a hole and go man man. I just WanNa make sure I just lag this down there when he knocked at six feet by you. Didn't you didn't follow your plan. But so part of it is can. Can you get a win out of something when you're out there absolutely nothing. That's great advice in in. You know I was actually having this lesson of the kid yesterday. I'll see you know. He's tried foreign bullet low and and going right. Ah Let me and I want to the highest hook. You've ever hit in your entire life. I walked the face dead straight failed. He's like what I'm like. I want to Hook and and you just hit it straight. He's all Giddy. Because I know we hit it straight. I wanted to do the hook and he just six Charleston Road on screws. He looks at me he goes. I still haven't hook yet. I'm like I'm well aware but I think it goes back to like a processing plant thing. I think that hits the nail on the head absolutely perfect in. It's so easy easy to get lost with golf where we've hit those perfect shots. And then it hits the Sprinkler head and gets host right and or hits the edge of the green one yard art left and it goes in the water verses one yard right. It'd be six feet you can't control it and why Tokyo's you can control everything up until the moment you hit the to touch it. Yeah then it's then it's all hearsay from that point you're spectating along with everybody else. Nothing to get worked up about over that and I had A. It's about you're not in control but you're in control of your plan and you're in control of what you want to try and happen on that shot and if you're in control troll that you're on a better course to hopefully influence what's going on. That shot one of the greatest shots I've ever seen and just I think this is worth adding in many years ago trying to qualify for the Tallahassee Open. Well that tells you how many years ago it was that whenever I had a chance to play with the individual and he had just come from China and I'm GonNa leave this guy's name out of it but let's just say this guy is played in the masters you want enamored and he was just a really good guy any we're sitting in the fairway and we kind of know the number is three unders GonNa and he's sitting at four and he said Man I'm so tired he said I gotTa tell you something I said what he said. I don't WanNa play this week. I'm beat man. He said you rectify took a nine iron learn. Wouldn't reach the Green Mike Berry face of that trap. Why can't give you advice but I go just hearsay that I reckon that might be what's going to happen happen? He took a nine hundred buried. It right in the face of the trap had a chunk at once rolled back in a trap got out made a double. Bogey didn't have to play. That is the best shot I've ever seen. You called it. Okay do it. It's amazing 'cause that's not what we're encouraging but as hilarious but Joe. I I appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me today and chat and I'm glad we got a chance to do it. What are some ways that people can find? You know you're not big on the social media thing but you get your website. How what can people do to find? You usually starbucks because of the coffee. Honestly Joe Hallett Golf. Dot Com is the website log onto legends. Out here. If you just feel like dropping me an email we have twenty thousand no excuse me twenty eight thousand members. Now of the many years ago you were allowed to choose your own email and and so I thought well anybody chose the PGA guy no pretty creative bunch we have here so the PGA Guy Hi at PGA DOT com or Dot Com Matt. Thanks seriously get to spend an hour and hopefully release speeches some stories and some wisdom. which absolutely both do all the time? And it's cool it we get to share with people who we don't do it for an hour straight. We usually do it for two one minute straight. This is a years worth in one city man. Well thank you again and a mess for me. You got. That's Rattlers Joan. Hope you enjoyed this edition of the podcast as you can tell Mr Hall and I like to swap stories and chat. He's a funny dude. A lot of great insights a lot of great info and I hope you enjoyed this episode and be sure to check out what he's doing because he's spending a lotta time coach and coaches and helping tour players and just all around good guy so as usual if you enjoyed this episode of the podcast. Please feel free to subscribe live review or fouls on social media at met Walter. PG junior golf blueprint on facebook or if you want. The episodes early hit patriotic. And we'll get those episodes to you as they drop so until then have a great day and enjoy a weekend.

Golf instructor PGA Stacy Lewis Joe Gary Gilchrist Golf magazine Bob Chuck Cook Bob Tosca Mister Lopez Tennessee Ballard LPGA spotify Bob Totski Jo David ledbetter PGA
Fasting with Phil Mickelson

GOLF.com Podcast

22:27 min | 8 months ago

Fasting with Phil Mickelson

"Hey everyone let's get real for a few minutes. I haven't posted anything because I haven't felt good about myself and the way I've been playing and so I haven't done anything you wanted to be in public the last ten days I've done what I call a hard reset change and try to make things better. I have lost fifteen pounds. I've done a six day fast with water and a special coffee blend for wellness that I've been working on with Phillips and went on a bit of a retreat. I'm here in Ireland. Now beautiful place getting ready for the British Open. I don't know if it's going to help me play better or not but I'm willing to do whatever it takes to try to get my best back all right. Welcome to the drop zone. My name is Dylan to share. And we're going to do something a little bit different today because my co host. Sean Zack has just finished doing something different of his own. He's just completed Phil Mickelson's coffee and water fasting testing. And he's here to tell us all about it Sean. Are you excited for this. Yeah Yeah I've I've had a couple of months of post fast lifestyle that is I think it's been a lot healthier than I used to be all right before we dive in. I want to give a little bit of context to the situation. Because I sit next to Sean at work and he he is an extremely well. I should say was an extremely regular consumer of a morning bacon egg and cheese. He's been known to put away a full pasta lunch. That's on Tuesdays here at the golf dot com offices without breaking a sweat and I believe he holds the record for Masters Fried Fried Chicken Sandwich consumption through down. I think twenty one over the course of the week couple years ago. Yeah and like years before that it was how many snickers bars can. Can you eat at Erin Hills. My College Roommates would laugh when I would Cook Pizza. Benita by myself four chicken patties. At a time everybody knows was that I can kind of put some food away. The guy isn't eater but as they say wedding crashers were not that young. We're getting a little bit older. Every day Sean Sean. How did you get dragged into this originally? And what is the back story on Phil Mickelson and fasting while we work for Gulf Dot Com but we also work for Golf Magazine and in Twenty Twenty one of the goals of golf magazines to have alternative fitness regimens kind of tried out by our editors. We're going to have someone doing cryotherapy. We're going to have someone doing this. Em Dr Testing and one of the things that we suggested was to do a fast and someone said. Why isn't someone do Phil Mickelson's fast? And aww completely honest. I was just leaving a bar when I got that email. I was a little bit tipsy and very confident and I said screw it I can do Phil Mickelson's fast were were you thinking like. Hey I could use a dietary reset or anything like that. I think anyone who feels like they're five or ten. Fifteen pounds. Sounds overweight. Like it's always there as I should get better it would have probably been smart for me to lose five to ten pounds. I didn't necessarily need it but I could. And so yeah. I mean that that little benefit losing a little weight in the process of filing story for the magazine is something. I'd never done before. So give us your dimensions. A is it a personal question but this is all pretty personal so when you started out how tall how heavy. Yeah so six to For those who always listen to the the drop zone not to brag six foot two And I started at one hundred ninety eight pounds now. I've always kind of been below the two hundred pound on spot. Have you ever hit two bills. I went up to three at one point a couple years ago and then I stopped eating lunch together and lost fifteen pounds ons but always in the one ninety five one in ninety eight range and I think a good operating wait for Sean is like one. Eighty seven one eighty nine and so yeah we we needed a little bit of a reset you set off on day one. What are you consuming? What is your intake per day? What does this Phil? Mickelson Nicholson fasting. Diet consists of day one was actually like dade negative one or a negative to our. I hit fills trainer his performance coach Dave Phillips and said. Hey just give me the recipe. I'm going to do it on my own. I'll be able to keep you guys. Keep you abreast of what it does for me but I was kind of hoping to just just kind of do this by myself over Thanksgiving break and he said. Hey here's Phil cell phone number. He'd rob he'd love to talk to you way. All right I'll shoot him a text and so two days negative one negative too. Were me texting Phil. Won't I gotTa do to do your fast and Phil gave me the entire recipe but in this drink all right. Twelve sixteen fluid ounces which is basically like three cups of coffee. The first thing Ethiopian coffee beans two to three tablespoons of MCAT oil. You have a heaping scoop. According to fill of protein powder a teaspoon of cinnamon a tablespoon boone of honey. You have a dash just a dash of Himalayan pink sea salt a small glass of almond milk and lastly two two hundred milligrams of Elf Queen does comes does come in little capsules. You have to pull apart the capsules and dump it in that is just to Kinda help. Calm your nerves in your jitters. If you take two capsules worth it'll probably put you to bed while okay so take me to the grocery store with you. What was that experience like? What kind of what are we talking in terms of cost? Those are things I don't normally buy. I am not a protein powder guy. I don't have honey on me. I don't have Himalayan Pink Sea salt. I don't have almond milk so I. It was pretty much asking one of the clerks at whole foods which were filled told me to go. Where do you have all this crap I gave my? I gave her my phone and she took me around. It all came to about one hundred and thirty five dollars. You could expense that. I was able to expense it. And when you think about it if you're not eating any other food that's your food budget for the week so I was okay with it all right so then tell me how you felt that first day that First Cup of coffee. What did it do to you while I had eaten prior like the evening prior so I I was not hungry yet? You're coming off Thanksgiving dinners at right. Start on Black Friday. I started this small business Saturday. Actually so I had had thanksgiving and then the Thanksgiving leftovers. The first time I tasted the coffee. I didn't exactly like it. Are you a big coffee drinker. I am not a big coffee drinker. So maybe that is the reason why I struggled but I kind of choked it down and I was like nine thirty in the morning just kind of thinking. I don't get to have this for a long time and I don't to have anything else. Have you ever fasted in our now. Have you ever gone a day without eating now so I think my mom's proud of that by like early afternoon noon on day one or are you starting to say man. Could you a sandwich yeah. I'm starting to get hungry. It was a college football Saturday so just kind of sitting there in the -partment meant watching a lot of football watching a lot of food commercials. Come across the screen. Roommates are cooking food. I can't have any of it day. Two is where it gets bad because yes Sunday. NFL Sunday you're starving. At this point you are in an abnormal state of hunger. I wish I had something to distract me. My stomach was kinda grumbling and kind kind of always reminding me that. Hey you're really hungry and I was really blown away at how much you think about food like even today when you get done with one meal within the next hour. You're thinking about the next one. Yeah think about food almost all the time or in your in communication with Phil throughout this process. What was he telling you at this point? Yeah Phil was a very inspiring spiring Dietitian. I mean he texted me. A link about how coffee has great antioxidants in that. It might be the best thing that you put in your body. He was telling me. Hey the first two they suck. You're going to get through it day. Three feel completely different from day to your stomach shrinking. Your appetite is shrinking. Your immune system is in the process of resetting. Now I don't really pay attention to my immune system that often but I know fill a guy who's going to be fifty soon is definitely thinking about that stuff so he was telling me if you need to in the evening you can have a half batch if you are if you are starting to feel sick or really really weak. Take a half batch of the coffee. I did that twice. Weiss I should have had a little bit more L. Fenian because it kept me up all night long. He had this one line though. That really stuck with me. It was everything you put in your body audie either causes disease or helps you fight disease and so of course I'm thinking like what am I putting in my body that causes disease. Well maybe that a big Mac or maybe the ingredients in that big Mac anything all the candy consuming alcohol in one weekend. Anything like that is combining till like break my body down whereas if I'm feeling it with positive things net positive things things on the positive end of the spectrum. I'm probably going to be a healthy person. All right take me today three then because I'm outwardly. Skeptical that somehow day three is going to be easier than day to even though you've eaten no food while at this point we had some momentum. I had lost by day. Three seven seven pounds which felt felt like a lot and anyone. I told remind me that it was a lot day. Three the first half of the day was no different than day to do. I still felt very hungry but by the end of day three I did a little bit of exercise. I went for a run How long I went for three mile run but it was three one mile runs? I realized I needed to have breaks in between I could not have the sustained energy throughout the entire day I I might have had it at nine. Am Eleven am and maybe even one pm but by APM. My body was ready for bed. So if I was going to get up the energy to try and an exercise is going to need to give myself plenty of breaks and was fills was part of Phil's advice to get some exercise. He wanted you to stay active because I mean he. He stayed active. He said he did ninety minutes of Yoga most days and then he would hike home from his yoga studio granted. That's not the same as running or maybe walking a golf course after having a really intense driving range session. You don't WanNa be sitting on a couch all day long. That'll just that'll eat you alive. It'll remind you how you haven't eaten you. We haven't done anything all right day. Four then you've got a hoops game. Yeah what was that like. I felt really good in the first half. I told my my teammates. It's guys I'm facin right now so if I suck don't hold it against me I didn't really do anything special. I felt okay. I took more breaks again but what what was weird. Is that in the second half tell my body was not not okay with this. I had one ridiculous turnover basically gave the ball to the other team. And I just Kinda looked look to myself like are you kidding me. I got a little light headed in the second half. I guess that was to be expected. I don't think Phil would have told me Yoko up and run down the floor. Play little full-court court defense. But he did say if you want to. You can have a little bit of an avocado or like avocado toast. And I was like. NAH If I'm in this too fast. I'm in this too fast no food. How what your temperament you know people talk about getting hungry? Were you like cranky guy to be around. You'd have to ask ask Either yourself or by roommates people that are close proximity to me. I maybe felt a little delirious at times especially in the evening wing. You know the the coffee has so much espresso in it that it really made me focused throughout the day from nine. Am to about three APM. I was very very focused and I think I kind of helped distract me via my work but by the time. APM rolled around. And I'm just kind of watching Basketball on the television. My roommates are cooking. STIR FRY like sort of freak out a little bit all right so now on day five. How if at all does the coffee coffee tastes different? How's the experience of drinking your days worth of food? Yeah change my appetite has gone down. Maybe the first day I took my time drinking it on the fifth day I like really had to force myself into finishing at my appetite for it had gone down. Water is flying lying through my body. I was going to the bathroom constantly at work constantly at home I was waking up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom because I was drinking so much water. And that's very important because I think if you don't drink enough water you will obviously become a bit dehydrated. You'RE GONNA end up getting some headaches that way when you know you're tired of drinking water drink one more org last. That's kind of a good number kind of kept thinking about that'll keep you very hydrated. It keeps you from really your body having freak out moments right and so I was reading a little a bit about fasting and seems like doctors Kinda wanted to ease into things you know maybe try it for a day. Maybe do some intermittent fasting. Maybe maybe you work your way up to forty eight hours year now on day. Five going into day six. How's your body handling it? I talked to a doctor from the University of Wisconsin Johnson Madison who specializes in fasting. He's actually working with patients to help. Fight Diabetes by getting them too fast he he said he would never ever ever ever ever advise anyone to go from eating three meals a day to eating zero meals a day for the large majority of a week so with an mine. I was doing the wrong thing I was not. I was not going to be doing the right fast. The correct fast for my body. What he did say is that fasting is good? It helps drop inflammation in your body in your blood. That's what Phil said as well. It is a bit of a healing mechanism He also said that we are never better. Ed Or as thinkers as people never more focused than when we are hungry interest is there is something going on in our brain. That's bothering us. We tend to try to like take care of everything else before we end up addressing this task the task of not being hungry or or making yourself hungry so all of that being said start with an eighteen hour fast. Do a twenty four hour fast work up to forty eight hours of telling my dad who's interested Daddy's with twenty four before even think about going the full full six days maybe even try the six days and stop halfway stop after four days because everyone has their breaking point and mine was US right around the five and a half day mark. So is it harder or easier now that the finish line is in view. Now that you're on day six you can taste east food easier because I knew I was going to eat And it got harder because I started to feel a little bit sick in the evening of day five I was feeling feverish and I felt unwell. not not to the point where you know there would be nothing to throw up. But I didn't feel sick that I needed to address it. I felt just chills waking up on day six those chills kind of remained. I slugged that coffee. It was my little lifeline. When Video Games you get a little health health pack? It was my health pack. I felt good then for the rest of the day six and then by the time the evening rolled around when I would finally get to eat again. Those chills came back so six days going to be too much for me. Seven would have been way too much. I was ready to eat. Were you feeling like skinny at this point. Is this like Tom. Hanks in castaway thing where they go back and he's like this emaciated guy. I was feeling weak. My muscles started to feel weak I didn't really feel like if you asked me to go for a run. I don't think it would have been able to run three miles. My I didn't feel like I had the the energy in my muscles which was to be a bit expected. I talked to fill about that. And he said it's GonNa take a little while maybe two or three days for you to feel muscular and strong again but that's part of the fast that's part of what you're doing to your body day six. You've completed your fast. What was your final way in? How low did you get on the scale? After starting at one ninety eight the I got down to two one eighty seven point six eleven pounds lost in a six day span while I was that didn't mean much to me. What meant the most to me is that I could one do it to do it? Exactly as Phil Dead and three do without like rapidly changing my lifestyle. I was still exercising. I was still working. I was still putting up with you. checked all the boxes. One of the things that the dock from Wisconsin told me is that fasting is a bit lake if you took your childhood home that is completely dressed up with furniture and carpeting happening and the TV in the corner and your family photo on the wall. Take all of that out. It's the same home but you've stripped everything out of it is a blank home. It's a blank canvas. That's kind of what fasting is like. You're taking everything out of your body all the food cycle which actually weighs a little bit on you taking all of that out and now you get to redecorate you get to decide what you put into your body. What kind of things you're going to eat regularly with things are going to avoid that kind of that? Analogy really slim with me bringing that couch. A badgers flag. Put It on the wall. Then you need to plan out your first post game meal here rethinking about that like from day to on or what. Well Phil said you should probably go with some vegetables. Something Green the first thing you should have is a Green Macho Gotcha shake I am not without. What were you craving throughout this whole process like we were different things coming through your head? No I was actually craving the coffee. Because that's what I knew I could have but truly the lowest hanging fruit. I went with Popeye's chicken sandwich. I ordered to Popeye's chicken sandwiches is I ordered two sides of mashed potatoes and gravy ordered as in. You did not even walk to Popeye's Nope I on the subway home ordered ordered from seemless. They delivered I house that crap. How did it feel? It felt like old times to be honest but I got so darn full will. I turned on jeopardy and I passed out. I fell asleep instantly and I had like the. You are full burps for the next twenty four hammers. Well I guess that leads to the question. How were you sleeping during this? You said you're getting tired early in the night. Would you sleep well through the night. Yeah yeah usually. I'm going to bed between eleven and twelve these days but I was getting tired at nine and going to bed by ten nice amazing. What sleeping do for your body? That's on that part sounds. It's Kinda Dreamy to me arts looking back in more of a big picture way what do you take away from the experience. And what do you hope to learn. From your experience. It's my takeaway is that there is that fasting is more healthy than it seems. Everyone's I thought as like. Are you crazy. Are you really trying to do this for six days. Why would you do this? How do you do this? There's no way I could do this. Yes you can. That's the bottom bottom line yes you can. The reason why is because hunger is truly a mindset thing. It's built out of habit if you have three meals. There's a day if you go down to two. You'll feel hunger if you've got onto one you'll feel hunger if you stick with three. You're probably pretty much not gonNa feel hunger like hunger truly Louis is. I called it in the story like affliction of the mind way more than the body. You go on without food. It's kind of amazing. Wow this is inspirational. I now all right and then finally did you learn about Phil Mickelson. You talked to him on the phone at the end of your process. You're texting with him throughout you kind of walked in his shoes. which was the whole all ideas of this? What did you learn about lefty? Well I learned that. He's even more of a maniac than I thought he was He is avid about this stuff. He had had been reading about fasting for a long time prior to doing it. He cares about his body more than I thought he did. You know we've known fill to be this smooth swinging swinging guy. Who's American Gulf Dad? Who is fallible? And isn't perfect and I kinda thought that he didn't always care for his body as much as he did he really does. It's it makes sense that he has a performance coach. WHO's thinking about his diet? Just in the same way that brooks cap gays. He lost fifteen eighteen pounds in the six day fast and I got to talk to him on the phone afterward. He said he lost another ten to fifteen pounds since he still drinks the coffee in the morning he actually actually fast kind of on the regular little mini fast here and there. He just did one prior to his first start of the twenty twenty season a three day fast to again reset his immune system. This is a thing for him like he's very much into this and he's very much into coffee and is this a thing for you now arena C.. You Know Sean. Just kind. Uh skipping meals thirty six forty eight hours no but I'm not opposed to doing it again. I think maybe in maybe once a year the doctor that I talked do does it once a year. If you feel five or six or eight pounds overweight this is probably one of the more healthy ways and one of the more realistic ways of going about doing it. You know everyone's sets these pretty fantastic goals especially this time of year early January for how they're going to exercise and you know what by by the end of January they really don't stick to it. This is an easier way of kind of doing things to your body and your diet that can have very impactful results. Maybe that next hard reset will come right after the master's and those fried chicken sandwiches not be doing that again. That's going to do it for this week's drop zone. Thank you sean for Sharing your journey. Thank you Phil Mickelson for playing along we would love it if you leave us a five star rating or review for more content. Like this we will. We'll see you guys next week on the drop zone.

Phil Phil Mickelson Sean Sean Dave Phillips Ireland APM Golf Magazine Sean Zack Mickelson Nicholson Dylan Benita Cook Pizza Erin Hills Phil Dead NFL Diabetes Twenty Twenty Wisconsin
Away Game | Ian Gilley from Sugarloaf Social Club

GOLF.com Podcast

32:57 min | 1 year ago

Away Game | Ian Gilley from Sugarloaf Social Club

"Hey guys welcome to away game. Golf dot com's travel focus podcast where we dive into offense travel. I'm i'm really excited today to welcome ian gilly a co founder of sugarloaf social club. You likely haven't heard about sugarloaf social club which is highly really unfortunate because what they're doing is really cool and even if you have heard about it you might that though exactly what it is so we're gonna start our conversation with am by asking him what is gigolo social club and then we're going to die right into a hidden gem project. Essentially he's identified about ninety courses around only united states put them on a map on sugarloaf social club dot com and identified them as the hidden gems that all golfers should experience so without further ado here's ian so welcome ian gilly one of two co founders of the sugarloaf social club. Am i right. Yes correct sean so ian for those who don't know or aren't exactly familiar with what sugarloaf social club is. What is your mission statement. What's your ethos in real goals yet. It's it really started as as a small group of garnered sewer interested in and in exploring the the highbrow and lowbrow cool elements of golf that that we found interesting and translating that through our in gem project where we're uncovering courses that deserved more light in that are affordable and accessible and we love also of swag and designing designing hats and clothing and <hes> autos on our site sa- as kind of a bat signal that people pick up the rest of the world to connect like minded strangers out in the wild it is a golf decided that started in twenty eleven in my dorm room at rollins college in winter park florida with me and my my two roommates basically we were playing the score crenshaw course called sugarloaf mountain at the end of our school year were about to graduate graduate and we were we were getting a little teary eyed and all going our separate ways and we came up with this idea of sugar social club an umbrella over our little friend group as an incentive sensitive for us to kind of keep in touch as we moved across the country and the idea was we'd have like a private facebook group in private text message group chatan and we would collect friends from our new experiences over the years and add them to this group and the tipping point of of it kind kind of becoming much more than a small group of friends was we love designing so head for ourselves and of course every club wants to have their own hats and logos rosen <hes> we you know the minimum order for hats is maybe thirty six and we'd got eighteen guys in the club so we were wearing these hats and other other folks wanted them and so we set up a website to to sell them and so other people could join in on the ethos and kind of take their little sugarloaf aloke with them <hes> so the tipping point was truly the pimento cheese sandwich mark just though twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen and it it just instantly spoke like secret golf nerd i totally understand what this is and it's something not overly golf you that i'm bill comfortable wearing to a bar but it's definitely a conversation starter and if you know you know and that was a really powerful but simple icon in that that was the tipping point wait for the the swag at large and swag now is a huge part of what sugarloaf does <hes> but it's it's one live at least three branches that i've noticed and recognized and another one is <hes> this branding agency that you guys have started you know you've worked with some some really well known entities within the golf world definitely <hes> this harrison lewis my business partner working on capitol hill for five years who's up there for ten and we weren't totally creatively fulfilled and we had spent all this time is communications directors and kinda jack-of-all-trades type communicators and we figured hey let's let's take our creativity in our kind of have good instincts on branding and and how we handle a member of congress and handled carefully his brand across the spectrum of outlets and let's see if we can apply those sort of learned things to other companies and we were really obviously big golf nerds and really interested in on the payroll and resorts courses so yeah right off the bat we left congress and immediately had a few clients these we've done cool branding for pinehurst nine hearse and we work with mackenzie every day and we're helping launch brands all the time and the blur of the agency and the brand sometimes like like we will do huge collaborations with a callaway or a original penguin and it's it's been really fun. I mean basically like all i ever wanted to do was to help brands realize their full potential and so i get to do that with our own in house grand and other brands that are really respected meyer we. I thought what you guys did with pinehurst. I number four specifically was tremendous and in you really kind of help them when they i wouldn't call that a redesign i would call it a a total rematch nation pinehurst number four what feel hanson his team did their branding wise what you did was you went back into their archives archives basically and discovered that little things like you know the fact that their original colors were navy and orange you brought that back to life and that's how you kind of set the precedent for all of the materials that you created around the do pinehurst number four but it was really kinda old exactly and we're archaeologists at the end of the day like we love finding those little nods in in courses past like how their branch dan should be approached in current context and i mean that that is a great example and you know now that was almost a a bit fact that was was lost in time that discourses just just like how the old course and sanders they have different colored flags on a different you know nine's earth the different courses i mean you can get lost pines and start planning to records especially back in the twenties thirties forties when there's maybe naza homes or sign a drought there so the color of of course was like really important and like a true identity of of one through five or whatever was originally there <hes> and when we were tasked with hey if if number four was going to have its own identity and branding and kind of stand you know side aside shoulder-to-shoulder number two which it's totally worthy of you know where should we start to make authentic and dipping into the archives like always our first our first thing we do on any of these products and see if there's any hidden little little glint of of a previous identity that just had been lost time and yeah orange was number four color and kicked off the entire palette from tease. The flags rides to scorecards the logo to the merchandise since very we really think that having a cohesive brand is important in that they they seem happy and i see number four flags on instagram all the time it's amazing. I can't stop wearing my hat so thank you and you use that word hidden which gets me to the third leg or branch that i've noticed in recognized in sugarloaf and that's the hidden gem project which is what we're going to really talk about right right now so you say on your website that the hidden gem project is quote a guy to affordable accessible and architecturally really interesting golf courses that are one hundred percent sugarloaf approved so i want to break that down in your opinion makes golf course affordable. Yeah i mean <hes> really there's no total hard and fast rule but when we're looking to add courses to this to this map <hes> typically things under one hundred dollars is kind of kind of benchmark and most of these are under fifty dollars not half that so <hes> we are really looking for cool interesting funky quirky courses that don't potentially even know how cool and interesting they are. You're <hes> that that deliver a ton of value so for example. I think you've played winter park down in orlando area. That's it's twenty bucks incredible incredible of and we went to rollins right down the street there and you know it's out propound some of the best golf you can you can have her for that much money and <hes> the the there are hundreds if not thousands of courses like that across the country and we're kind of scratching the surface in terms of uncovering them. That's awesome so is affordable couple different trim value like if if there's a course out there that's really really amazing. If pebble beach cost one hundred fifty dollars instead of five hundred dollars i would you consider that affordable or is that a valid question. I mean we've always kind of looked at this. Look at golf as a hole in an enjoyable golf as as a value proposition. I mean stream song banned in these are all worth their weight in whatever they're charging <hes> but likewise winterpark has squalls nines also have an incredible value proposition at at their. I mean to us. It's really it's really like restaurants. Frantz right like you can have an incredible meal world-class best dinner of your entire life like a michelin star restaurant with white tablecloths tons of cool service ala- alaska pebble beach. Let's say but there are also like food trucks down the road that are selling the best tacos you've ever had in your life and so we love the highbrow and lowbrow but it's it's. It's really fun to discover those food truck. Esca golf courses at delivering an incredible opportunity in course experience for a really in saint value love it and so the other part of that definition with the hidden gem project is accessible <hes> and when i was poking around your map on sugarloaf social club dot com yeah <hes> i saw that some of these hidden gems are private courses so that made me wonder under what makes these tracks what makes all of them accessible sure you might have to let me know exactly which ones you've found were pump private. I mean we really try to make sure that these are you know. Accessible is is basically a you know it means. It's it's a public course some of them. There are are some. There are a few exceptions though you're right. I mean there's like caper rundle in maine for example definitely it operates like a pride of course prime membership of but they allow outside play. It said i saw yeah. Even better example would be capital city country club cool tilling escorts down in tallahassee. <hes> you know for their entire history. This has been a private the country club but recently they've opened up on certain times and days <hes> public access so we think that's a really cool at european model invests soon as we heard that they opened up for public lancer time students they've they made the list <hes> and i think the one <hes> outlier in this conversation rotation about accessibility is jefferson lakeside club which is enrichment which is definitely a private club <hes> and we had it listed in august issue golf augustine as one of our favorite hidden gems and we include that just because we belong there and if anyone ever wants to play. It's an open invitation to the public. Just let us know on. We'll help you get on or even hosted for today. Beautiful so accessible care really does mean public absolutely been to all yeah yeah. I would say a grand joy to them are truly don't even have like a private element to them whatsoever. I mean these are these are mostly kind of off the beaten path a public access tunnel unions as well great. I definitely want to get to how you pick these spots because there's from my rough count about nine the given so we're going to get there i promise <hes> but the last bit of that definition architecturally interesting what does that mean in a what elements of design zayn make a course interesting totally and what a subjective category this is i mean we kind of see discourses and in a few different different lights one would be a lot of them are golden age courses and like pre1933 nineteen forty and there's just a certain quirk and charm that goes along with courses horses milton this time they you know pre industrial pre machinery <hes> and a lot of pan tan sculpting and horse drawn plows and what have you and and i think what that leaves behind these really charming funky interesting courses and a lot of tracks on our map are designed by golden age architects roster roster attila s <hes> and and it's without fail <hes> it's one of those types of guys touched it and usually it's still before nineteen thirty. There's going to be something architecturally architecturally intriguing or interesting or different or funky about it <hes> and then look into the to the modern age. There's there's a lot of cool interesting things built in the last twenty five years. I mean world words and florida. Tom fazio public super super interesting like the poor man's pine valley <hes> <hes> so you know it's it's a really broad question but <hes> it is definitely the eye of the beholder but were looking for you know funk template holes you know just vintage oddness <hes> and kind of modern like different nece in that that kind of funneled into what we consider architecturally actually interesting. That's that's awesome so when you say funk in oddness <hes> when i say those two words what are some holes or courses that it come to your mind almost right away. Are there any yeah i mean go back to one of our favorites achon golf club <hes> north of augusta there. <hes> you know it's fifty eight hundred yards <hes> double green scott you know in maine there there. There's you know a handful of really cool courses that are par sixty eight sixty nine <hes> and then just kind of weird. Just the these folks were building courses one hundred years ago like you know there. There wasn't really a grand template out there and sometimes that resulted in some awesome like beautiful mistakes. I guess <hes> there's a cool course called gaylon all in the middle of pennsylvania signed by telling us that has an island green who knows how old that thing that's just just totally totally odd <hes> so again in the in the eye of the beholder but you know when when you see it you know it and just just charm in patina basically beautiful so i was looking at your map of hidden gems. I counted about ninety courses. I'm i might have miscounted but it's around there <hes>. How did you find these courses. I see below the map on your site. There is a place for people to submit entries but what's that process like of going through those entries accepting entry you know is there and characteristic that they all all having common deadly. I mean there's there's kind of a few ways that these courses out here. <hes> a a a handful them we have we have played prior to building building this map in two thousand fifteen two thousand six like keeney park <hes> la sonia up and <hes> and rang slow outside of chicago. These are thought we'd we visited many times and really kind of were like if we ever put together a list. These are definitely all stars <hes> and then you as as we left our jobs on capitol l. and have dovan to shirlow fulltime. I mean we've we've been working up to travel across the country and we kind of just stumble accidentally on some cool courses like there's there's a municipal course coming back from augusta north called dylan muny and it's right where that south of the border like weird gas station accident. It's just like cool little all forgotten gem <hes> little country club <hes> outside of billy incredible ross quartz. We were playing a course next door. Look like what is that so we went over there in the afternoon afternoon. Play that place pox the bar when you're headed out to montauk on long island summer just see these places you know like okay we have to try these these these just look incredibly interesting <hes> and then the other ways i mean we've dedicated trips to like seeking out these spots so we've gone who spent almost a week in maine and a week in in western pennsylvania this summer <hes> and those adventures always start with me on google earth just combing the landscape jumping to ask you because yes. I'm sure you know how do i find these hidden gems gic yet hours and hours on google earth and we've developed kind of mccain. I like alex alex cool and then do some research on it. Oh wow like that is a styles and ben quick course and who knew and we have to it so <hes> and then of course yeah folks always are submitting interesting ideas and <hes> we personally love to like i would love to see all these places <hes> but i'll usually you know once once. I got a good feeling on a spot. That's recommended. I'll ask my buddies. Maybe in the area who played the course kind of get a consensus like okay this is <music> on on brand on taste for us and makes them out that kind of reminds me that the july issue who of golf magazine included huge feature about sugarloaf and what you guys are doing and i really enjoyed the read. I know josh sense did a great job rob with that and one of the things that he was saying was that you to you in harrison are really kind of using new mediums like instagram and just the digital world to push this retro message and this message that going back to golf's routes is is fun and like should be celebrated and was forgotten for a little bit but now is kind of making <hes> it's emerging urging again and what do you attribute that to what certain courses are doing like sweden's cove and you know these par-three courses that are popping up around some really great resorts in america or is it a mix of that with people who are like minded like you guys is and this group that you've kind of collected to really push that message or did one come before the other or that's a great question i when i look at this movement and this is definitely a long conversation like i think you can't start this conversation without talking about abandons mike kaiser and bandon preserved so that really was like this lightning bolt moment for me. That golf doesn't have to be eighteen holes with it can be thirteen. It can be all all part threes. You can have a sixty yard par three and it's like the coolest hole in the world's <hes> i'm in that that kind of you know my kaiser man of great taste and of course <hes> a true historian in the gulf world himself in <hes> looking you know that got me thinking and that's thinking like there are so many interesting little old courses that are now public and should should kind of have their day and let's let's highlight them a little bit and concurrently i think tastes and attitudes towards these types of courses are changing. I and i would like to think we're definitely a little bit part of that narrative. <hes> wherein you can play pinehurst number two you know in the morning and then go to the cradle afternoon. Enjoy both equally you don't look down upon one over the other or put one on a pedestal you know gulf gulf can be can be a par sixty seven four thousand thousand yards it can. It can be a really stern test. It can be a putt putt course crazy putting green and i think it's really cool that folks are investing in were really again probably just scratched the surface and in the golf industry in terms of like what what is coming next. I mean there's going to be i'm guessing tons runs. More sweetens co type cool spots that are in the middle of nowhere and nine holes in worth. You know dr overnight to see it. <hes> and resorts are going to continually newly probably add par-three courses. I think the greenbriar added a cool par three course just last summer <hes> so i think you know she attitudes either changing think having something being a part of this movements that shows hey i get it and i can appreciate the taco truck and the michelin star a restaurant in her. Both awesome is powerful in one day. Yes that's really cool. It's a cool analogy <hes> so i know you mentioned in some courses by name the a few minutes ago <hes> but if i asked you to spotlight three courses in particular that are listed on your map of hidden gems. Which ones would you throw that on yeah. I mean i can definitely up there but since we really kind of wrapped about that let's let's just not how we say ravage slow in chicago. One of my favorite dolorous used to be private and is now just one of the coolest public tracks you can you can play at he's got his grand old clubhouse and feel like you're at a private club but it's super affordable and part of classic americana ask golf history three in this industrial town really love that spot gray kinds like forty two seventy two bucks yup exactly donald ross. Yes it is it's it's one of my favorite <hes> and the other two. I mean one that totally stands out to me is vista links. It's a modern horse. It's it's in the middle of nowhere. <hes> virginia tucked into the blue ridge. It's basically like a links course on the side of a mountain in it's just it's it's beautiful went cheap and wild and scruffy anders dilapidated farm houses and exposed rock cropping in its just accidentally a really cool design nine <hes> saying it's so much fun and it's beautiful and they they don't allies places. They don't know that they're they're just in their own little bubble middle. They don't quite know how cool they are. Yeah <hes> so five to fifty five bucks so so yeah in a real l. sense of humor there and it's just it's that they haven't changed the blatas out of the cabinet you now since the early nineties is just fantastic. Yeah <hes> and i would say one of my other other favorite that we just explored this year was norte even golf club. It's nine holder designed by william styles. One of the great underrated golden age architects milton nineteen sixteen sixteen in it's. It's on an island off the coast of maine. It's like a two hour ferry to get there and it's just rustic in wonderful and it hasn't been touched in one hundred years ears and it's got hold on ocean and cool tee boxes on top of granite boulders and it's just relaxing charming in an unassuming and it's on this island that you know it's a place for wealthy families and locher main to just kind of stay off the grid but the golf course reflects that that that vibe it's super high quality tons of patina and it's untouched and really really a special day very cool so if there was one quality not that you could cite as almost always ruining a golf course early experience. What would you say that might be sure. I mean it to to me. It's conditioning or even the like the quality of the architecture. It's always about the vibe for remains <hes> if you're treated when you walk in the pro shop like one of the locals and it's just no big deal and they don't have to tell you one hundred roles and they they trust you and turn you have respect for their place and you you feel like you've been coming here. All your life like that's that's the ideal ideal by and just to be almost left alone once you're on your adventure in the course <hes> so you you know hawkish rangers or pretension or what are you doing here. You're not from around here or displaces so special. Let's make you. I feel like your less than worthy of being here. I mean those are things that that route and i think that's probably a unilateral statement across all like minded friends of arse yeah. No one wants to confront that at all in any aspect of life does and if there were just wrapping this up if there were three things that you wish more golfers did more often when they they do t- that <hes> <hes> what would you say those are in other words. Are there things that you do. You really find joy from <hes>. When you play golf that you might not see your friends or others do yeah <hes>. I you know i'm always pushing this idea that just just drive another thirty forty eight minutes an hour or two to play someplace you've never seen before and they individuals nine hole like you know it's of course two minutes away but it's eighteen holes and super super expensive and it's going to be really slow around. Wouldn't you rather have just driven another hour in play a country nine older and is that a different experience if you're if you have t see time at let's say <unk> more established course like bethpage black and you go into the shop and you ask starter or the guy behind the desk ask. Where can i go within thirty miles of here. That will surprise me it. Have you ever done that or would you recommend doing that. Yeah i mean i think asking asking like the assistant pro. They always have a good reputation for lunch thaad or like. Where do they play. You know like they're not offering bethpage every day. Where do they go okay. So maybe says red meat. He goes all the way to pass the bar. I don't know and i definitely think crowd sourcing. I mean the whole idea behind. This hidden. Gem project is to basically have a resource for people to kind of access that sort of local knowledge <hes> that we've cut our teeth bong <hes> and i would say the other two bullet points. I mean try to try to try to have set once in a while. You know if you are if you love walking hangings cake after clubs like you don't really need them all at the end of the day and it's it's so much more enjoyable not saying do it all the time i certainly don't but you you know taking taking half the weight off your shoulder definitely just frees up the experience and makes it a little more later feed and more enjoyable that oh you know a a an unintended consequence of that is it actually helps me play faster because a lot of time pouring over. Is this a seven iron eight iron. I i just have to be a little more creative and just executed move on so i love playing with a half set in sometimes i found you might play better late eliminating the paradox of choice and maybe like plain towards the lake safer of the two options <hes> nice to have some blame. <hes> you know a portion of really good crutch all right third. Oh yeah i always in a lot of times like arizona ourselves or i'm just kind of out on a little adventure. I mean i always do kind of back to your original point like making a making make the a priority like if i see the super go there and talk to them and engage with them and thank them and you know talk talk to the staff and just kind of thank them for i put in the hours and the time because this is like a truly thankful thankless job and you know the these guys only here kind of complaints a lot of the time especially the supers listen. I mean the true heroes out there making sure that we have places to play golf and and the deserve their credit that such a great message because i actually have sugarloaf towel that says only you can thank your superintendent and it's such a great message and it reminds me that that really does go a long way and these guys really are forgotten and they are the lifeblood of any golf course the guys take care of that course five a._m. And then ten pm those those the ones that really <hes> keep the dream alive so to speak no question well said in your last among your last ten dan rounds. How many times have you kept score two three three okay all right. Yeah i mean it's it's really i i do think having having a handicap in some degree is is is important. If you're going to be engaging in the gulf tweeted on on our large scale i mean it's it's it's as annoying as it is and maybe as <unk> to keep score nowadays. It's it's a benchmark. I think we all need when we go to participating local events <hes> but most of the time i mean i've just had a shot and keeping score is it's a it's a frivolous invention of of the game i mean it should just be you know. Matchplay should be a priority when you're playing with a group of buddies and if you're by yourself oh keeps your that's fine but just have on basically taken in the walker park yeah and and what's the biggest difference in in your experience france. When you play around where you keep score and then you play around with you. Don't keep score just mentally definitely. I mean it's when you're not <unk> even score. It's one less thing just like sometimes i you know we love taking photos. Some parts of hope even take my camera just it's it's eliminating those variables also in and taking you out of out of the enjoying just the actual pure experience which is just hitting a rock with stick and a field and that that's the core of the game <hes> keeping score. I feel like i got to put on a fancy golf shoes and count every putt and that that is stressful and it's it is interesting being at times to see like hey like. Where am i stack up kind of against you know the field or whatever or or old man par- <hes> but it's you know i i competitive golf all my life and basically like had a breakdown and had to just quit thinking about golf in those terms and enjoy it for you. You know what's really cool about it and that's robbery and exploring new places and travel and he needed to be outside with your friends yeah amen. I'm in the same boat. Wrote really enjoyed kind of talking about hidden gems. I know that when i play of course that i've heard very little about or nothing about if adds that extra sense of discovery and i'm finding this place even though there's a force in front of me and a force in behind me it's just it's it's really cool and then i love that <hes> that chance to really tell my friends about it i i. I think that's exactly what you guys are doing. On a much larger scale with your jet project so i'm looking forward to seeing how it evolves doubly and and again we've literally just fresh the surface there are hundreds of cool hidden gems out there and we plan to continue on covering those rocks fall schiffer loaf social clubs dot com slash his dash dash project beatable. Thanks so much for joining and we will be chatting having soon. I'm sure eventually i'll get on youtube.

golf maine sugarloaf sugarloaf social club michelin chicago golf magazine united states pinehurst ian gilly pennsylvania augusta meyer naza sean orlando Tom fazio hanson co founder youtube
How to develop a strong mental game

GOLF.com Podcast

39:35 min | 1 year ago

How to develop a strong mental game

"Hello and welcome to a special instruction edition of the Gulf com cost. I'm the instruction editor lucre, Nina. I'm delighted to be here today. With Debbie Doniger golf taught one hundred teacher Hawaii, Debbie how are you doing well doing well? So we're really excited about this. Because we're going to start doing these instruction podcast, but we're sort of taking a broader look at game improvement. We're gonna talk some about the swing. We're gonna have special guests on. But we're also gonna talk about tips for the view is at home and a holistic approach to golf in the sense that we're not gonna stay laser focused on the swing even though we're gonna talk about we're gonna talk about all the kinds of things that go along with game improvement, and I'm really excited about all the things that I think offs an all encompassing game. There's so much information out there to get our listeners better. So why not hit on all aspects of the game extrapolate? What's going to help? And and get it going up -solutely but first up. What are we talk about backgrounds a little bit, and Debbie, I know you have an especially interesting one. So for all the audience members. Who may not know what are you a pitch to them of how you got away. You are. Today. I sorry golf when I was seven years old played other sports. And then when I was twelve years old completely solely was golf wanted to play the tour my first instructor, which many people don't know, actually. With surely sports, she's an LP founder, and then I started working with Jim McLean in Westchester county. When Jim was the head pro at Quaker ridge golf club, twelve people don't know. So that's our at twelve years old. He's been my only in Maine teacher throughout my whole life and play junior golf product of the A, which I love college golf. I played a Chapel Hill did some really cool things they are and federal golf played the European tour, and then pretty much ended my playing career in ninety five ninety six and started teaching for Jim fulltime was on a fast track with him when out to PJ west worked under car Welty whom has since passed away, but is in the hall of fame and was a fabulous person. And then came. I'm back to draw and all systems now where you see me. Now, I've reached out to many teachers within the industry who I can call friends who are part of that top one hundred list that we have that. I really respect an admire and of just so blessed to have the career that I have how about you. When you play junior golf similar truck to you. I think very yes why I fell in love with Gulf in England, which is where I'm from originally played at this crappy local public, of course in the center of London my mom's American, so we moved the family moved over here when I was just about to enter high school. So I went to high school down at the international junior golf academy down in Hilton Head island. I was the of all through high school played junior golf a lot of Asia vents all around the country played in the British boys in two thousand seven thousand six I'm getting old. I'm all the user starting to blend together. Actually, I should came across. I'm sure you have this to be right. You come across these lists of. Tournament fields used to be an littered with PJ toll play LPGA top players in your case. And an amazing offers you grew up laying off with and you're like, wow, I I wasn't quite on that track. But it was cool to intersect them for a while. And then what was your tack to where you are now with golf magazine? Yes. So after junior golf the golf academy, I wouldn't played college golf at the university. South Carolina, Beaufort. I was there for four years. And it was during that time where I started really getting officer Gulf has been a lifelong passion of mine, but I've also started realizing that they're all these other things I was interested in like writing and being on camera and digital media more generally speaking, so sort of getting all of my student newspaper, and I was sports editor there for a while. And then doing some internships first at Newsweek, oh first USA today. And then at Newsweek and that brought me up to New York came up here for grad school up at a Columbia journalism school, which I granted graduated from twenty thirty. From there. I worked at golf digest for a couple of years, but we weren't talking about this. We weren't talk about dot. Yes. No. I'm getting I'm so great for everything for me. And a couple of years, then I went over to USA today while I was at Gulf writer and editor there for about three years before coming over to Gulf magazine. It's exciting time ahead. It's been it's been a fun journey up until this point. And I can't wait to see the road ahead. Look, I'm looking at the new February issue. It's a completely different look than what I'm used to seeing with golf magazine set looks awesome. Yeah. You know, and to your point we it's something that we've obviously put a lot of time and energy into an I'm so happy you like it and one thing that I think that you notice that a lot of rita's will in this case will notice is the redesign instruction section. It's in the back of the book. And it's and what we've really really tried to do with. It is have it reflector what I like to call a holistic approach to game improvement something we touched on at the top of the show where. Way you're going to there's going to be just as many swing tips in there as always, but they're going to be complemented with lots of other things. And this is something Debbie from playing and teaching that, you know that improvement at Gulf doesn't start and end on the driving range. Right. It doesn't stunt end. With the swing. There's all kinds of stuff that help you play better golf. Whether it's what you eat how you're walking out. How you're thinking all different kinds of things that go I need to be paying attention to. I think within this podcast, and and we are going to do it while highlight all of those people that can help our listeners with regards to what you just said. And also to understand that there are so many instructors out there that may be the listeners can't have access to and we hope that we can bring that information and help to them. And I think that's one thing. I'm so grateful for is when I'm out on tour, for example, I can talk to pekao in and spend time with him, and Sean Foley, and but charman, but now we can get these people, you know, their voices and their ideas because there are teachers in this. Game that have really helped shape and mold from an instructional perspective. And now, they're so much more information about nutrition, and fitness that you cannot ignore in order to be a complete player, and you can go from very simplistic level, which may help certain golfers in and you can take it to the extreme which may help are really really dedicated golfers. So you mentioned that the we're gonna have a great slate of Gulf one hundred teachers as guests on this podcast. Some of the names we've helped mold some of the best player on this. Like the legendary instructor we have coming up so really looking forward to that. And speaking of what we have two big hits from the top one hundred this week. But what that way to kick this off with Pia Nielsen inland Mary at their two friends of mine, they work with a bunch of my players. They're very much at the forefront of mental and sports performance. So the information is going to really help any golfer listening, I met Pierre. And Lynn when I played the European tour, and they were travelling really with the Swedish team, and one thing the listeners may not know as even though this was years and years ago as. Americans when we were over there. We were all friendly. We knew each other from junior golf, and we would travel together. But the Swedish team they traveled as a team. They did everything together they worked out together. They were doing things at the time that no one else was doing which is interesting such small country that has produced so many fabulous golfers. So it's not surprising to me that they are where they are now in in two thousand nineteen and Luke you spend time with them in Scottsdale this week. Let's have a listen, I put college call and after college I went straight into the business of teaching golf became a PJ of America professional and LBJ teaching professional and technical teacher. And I love I loved it. I just gave swing listens every day on the range. And that's what I did. And I was I was successful. And I worked at private clubs and public courses. And I had the dream job. Just often say this honestly is that? People got better swings. And they got better technique, but they didn't necessarily play better. So that you know that I really got interested. So why aren't they playing better often joke like wasn't my fault? They had been swings. Lynn got through the technical teach-in realizing she wanted expand her focus of me. I was to play I'm from Sweden played in our national team so tour player and all of that. And. I was I was doing. Okay. But everybody said wired you winning. I was making cats do K. But but then I went back to Sweden some and everytime. Went back. Always asked me coming help our younger players you've been in America and plan on tour first week to do that. So, but I didn't think much of it because I just wanted to be better at a tour player, but I never stopped playing it just tap into because they kept asking if you home a little bit like just tell out little bit now realized actually loved helping the younger generation do things smarter. And better than I did. Then my generation and the things that was so striking was that. How come I can hit the so good in the range now working really good stuff? But then things happen on the course. So when I started helping the Swedes I naturally story observing more. What happens when the plan the golf course? Especially on the golf course competition, and I would just make notes and tell the teachers at the clips Sweden, see these things. For some reason swing much faster the backside from site or this player seems to start reading the pets mush more after this happened. Just start making correlation things are happening in the golf course that no one is teaching them or so I wanted to stop the ask you about this. Because I think it's a really interesting point that here in Leno bringing up here that there's so much, and I've taken a million Gulf lessons of my life and ninety eight percent of them had been on the driving range. But that right in the sense that taking lessons to play better on the calls. And I think that disconnect that talking about his really interested. So I I want to get your thoughts on this as an instructor yourself. How do you help players take that from the range what you'll teaching them the technical stuff and help them actually apply on the Gulf Coast. I think they're absolutely right. When they say, they may teach golf more than other instructors 'cause they are invariably on the golf course near exactly right. It's a completely different world on the rain. I going out onto golf hole. With wind slopes trees, you have Drennan if nerves you have your buddies watching. So it's a completely different animal two different worlds. Two separate think the more that as teachers we can get on the golf course with our players and help them like peon Lynn are saying I'll just go back to them having they call it emotional resilience, or they have so many different ideas of how to be your best player on the golf course. And so as teachers I think it's our job to if you're trying to score better. Go for the low hanging fruit understand yourself as a person in a player and figure out the shots where you can do better at on the golf course and therefore lawyer scores and it's also good a different skill set. Roy in some ways that you'll get points based on how good you'll swing is. But doing something swing helps you can help you school better. Because it helps you the so I can imagine it's kind of it's kind of tricky balancing, those it is it's a catch. Twenty two because you need technical skills. You need the skills to control your ball flight, you need to understand slopes, and what you have to do to change your setups in order to get the ball from point eight point b but if we can hone in on making your misses more accurate and your short game for most of the players that I teach is really good then you can lower your scores. But more time on the golf course is invariably better. Because like they said every day you wake up differently golf is a game variability and to try to be perfect to use the word. I need to be more, quote, unquote, consistent really doesn't make sense with understanding the game of golf euro, great point something peer mentors out more in this next section though. So show the thoughts about what makes a good Gulf instructive us about Gulf instructor, and what students should know going into a Gulf lesson. Yeah. I know you often said that you had really good technical instruction when you are player, but your teachers never saw you play golf on the Gulf. Or in competition? We always say, what are the sport with a coach not watch what happens in competition. So, you know, we just think little blind spot. We have actually we actually go back to the used to do you still want to be the course and way back when and Scotland when the game began so we now it's great that we had van so much technology and measurements. And all of that we on for it. But we can't forget that the game is still about playing off in the course getting bowl in hole in learn that everyday forever. It's going to be variable in different there's never going to be the same ever. So what you have to manage them. So of course, we've had too many years Misamis even said, oh, yeah. But they don't do. They don't teach golf like I think we teach golf more than most most teachers because we them the golf course and integrating the technique with everything else you need. Well, I think that actually as as a consumer out there, you want to interview and find out, you know. What are you going to take me on the golf course? And how we going to do this thing on the golf course. And if you know your instructor says, well, no, I you know, we're not gonna take on the golf Christie. Get your swing. I would be a little beware a little skeptical. And because I mean, mentally, I think people are working on the techniques. So that they played better golf on the Gulf. That's so you wanna make sure that there's some sort of, you know, less than setup or package set up a plan set up that it's about you playing better golf on the golf course in your coach is going to go out there with you. And another thing I think is very important for the consumer that they need to tell the teacher, you know, honestly, like play twice a week. And I usually have have family and have job. I have about ten minutes to warm up and keep that in mind. What makes sense for me to work on knowing? I'm not gonna spend five hours a day working on something. They they might want. But this unrealistic, I think and these teach it can less listen in that Bill to how this person Meshal place golf, and how much time is available, and you know, how long they have played knowing how much have the Mylan night to the move sim. What would it take even change it so often we think because go for me to speak up more? And if the teacher doesn't right away ask those questions, so you can do something that's appropriate for how they pick off and how much of the practice. So w I think that idea of a student being informed with the right knowledge before going into taking a bunch of golf lessons is really important. And it's something the gophers think about the idea that when they going for golf lessons. What are they looking for themselves from an instructor of what parts of that game that trying to improve on what kind of plan the trying to develop? So I mean as an instructor how important is that for the student to be armed with? Right knowledge, when they going into taking lessons, I often say to people that don't know how to find a golf instructor. It's like looking for a doctor. It's like looking for a tutor for your child. You have to do your due-diligence. You have to know the resume in the background of the teacher that's going to hopefully help you with your golf game. And hopefully that instructor has a very good resume has years and years of experience, I think that's a huge part of it and can teach all facets of the golf game. If they can't teach all facets of the golf game to you specifications than they need to have a team behind them that can sort of send you to the right person, and it becomes a collaborative effort. But I definitely think you have to really look at the background of the teacher the success of the students of that teacher. It's word of mouth like you just said off air compatibility is a big deal. Are they in line with your goals as a student and can they get the job done? Absolutely. You know, I think a lot of gopher struggle to understand. What makes for a good teacher? Right. So caller. Gulf magazine, we put out are less of the top one hundred instructors in the country every two years. But I think a lot of gopher still struggle to pick the right instructor for them. Because like you said there's a lot that goes into it. Right. As you need to figure out what you want from your Gulf swing? You need to figure out what the teachers methods what his goals for you are. And that's just something that this a lot of great instructors for that. But you need to figure out what the best instructor is for your game. Right student. You have to be very discerning on who you choose in. That list is is a great list to start. And usually you can call up any PGA LPGA person in your area. Even at your local golf course if you don't belong anywhere, and they should be able via out less than six degrees of separation say, hey, this person is great. This person has had much success and can help you on the lead you down the right path. I've seen a lot of instructors who are method teachers. So to speak, and that person may be right for you. But may not be right for you. So there's a lot of free information out there that can take you down the right road. But also the wrong road. So you really do as I said in the beginning be very discerning because it's very easy to not get better at this game versus to get better. But if you have the right person, and if you choose the right person, you'll enjoy the game of golf so much more. Let's go back to learn who have a concept that they say helps gophers when they the head way to clogged with swing. Let's give it a listen for many because they've they've thought that they're only going to get better golf to having twin thoughts and more technique thinking, and we believe that they do need to work on the technique, but never win. They're actually swinging the golf club on the course. So meaning like what we give it a name we call it the play box. But that's when you step in. And you're actually engaged in hitting the shot at the target on the golf course that that is the apps. Salute worst place to be now thinking about your golf swing and be working on your swing. Yeah. We compartmentalize it so we have this thing called think box play box. But it's just to help people. There's a place in a time to work on your golf swing? But it's not when you play golf the performance is very conclusive on this. So I mean, if you just look at the science of it when an athlete, and we're going to call golfers athletes because they are golfers in a performance position than they do not want to be cognitively thinking, so the research on this in terms of looking at brain activity, and where's the brain active, and how is brain active? It's conclusive that we don't want to be in this cognitive beta brainwave state. It's you know. So we need to have a place we do that. But now we want to be able to step in and be an athlete and be what we call more sensory. And then that's balloted again by the brain research is that that's. More of an alpha brain wave sting. So so he's kind of we just modernizing commonsense. And what's been known for centuries that any great musician athletes surgeon Unum it in the moment of performance. They're they're in it. And they're sensing they might see the target or the might just feel the movement that the making soccer player basket player in reaction sport. You don't have to worry about it. They're just in the sport seeing the target or feeling the thrill, but in golf because the ball is sitting still waiting for us and many of us been giving all this cognitive thinking instruction office. Don't know yet. How to okay I'm done thinking in I'm stepping in. No, just feeling my great pressure to finish his best for another player learns like okay? Make my decision then sensing seventy percent Tempus best for me. But to have something to focus off that makes you more athletic or. So this concept of think box and play box. The idea that you're standing behind the ball. That's when you're allowed to do your thinking. And then you step into this shot your great instructor, obviously a top one hundred euro, great play yourself. This is something that you've experienced both teaching students and yourself. Maybe you could paint a picture of what this is like what a box play box looks like full the average Gulf peon Lynn actually worked with a bunch of my players, and I know them personally, I did ask peon Lynn once because I think as a player, you can get so bogged down in the box play box, as they deem it to be that you get to actually technical and mechanical which is the opposite of what this thing play box theory is trying to help you not be so and they agreed with me that sometimes the pre shot routine can get so mechanical that it just destroys it. So there has to be some sort of flow. So one thing that PM when did with bunch my students, which was really helpful is in the box, which is definitely behind the golf ball. We timed it is three seconds. Good for you, six seconds, nine seconds. Which is the best place for you to be where you're breathing. You're lacking you're picking out your target as they said, there's a swing feel is it a commitment to the target. Is it a pressure feel and once you cross an imaginary line, but it's a pretty discerning line. You are now in the play box and also systems are go and again, timing literally with a stop watch my players who who do this is really kind of alad and important while and sometimes you just have to hard stop off, the three seconds. You're allowed to three seconds. Then it's with certain players. That's a perfect amount of time for them. And so just to be clear. So what does pre she'll appreciate routine like this would look like as the Gulf oppose the club the stunning behind the bold looking at the ball in the target, and they get either three six nine seconds. Just to go through what kind of stuff the swing Foltz an. Anything else? Well, it's exactly what you see. If you watch golf on TV. It's what the guys are doing and women behind the golf ball. There are some players that take their practice wings next to the golf ball of you. Don't see it very often. But it's exactly what they've just defined it and made it a very simple way to understand for the layman golfer to understand what a quote, unquote, pre shot routine is. And it's exactly what you said. It's making all your decisions behind the golf ball. It's gathering those swing feels. And then once you cross that line. It's like we said all systems go Uganda. Ghana give it up and sometimes letting go of control helps you gain control. Which is why golf is so hard up Slough mega if few practice swings chosen your club is great. But then you cross that line. The stunning of the bull. What's go at what what should be going through gophers head right ripe during that. Again. I think it's very student dependent. I did play for living, and I had one maybe two swing feel swing thoughts. I think that's okay. It's very student dependent. But. It's looking at your target looking at the ball if that works for you. And then pulling the trigger because the brain the next frontier, I think for most of us golf instructors to understand and PM Lynn delved into it a little bit. You know, you're it's the connections are already there. So the golf swing is so fast really don't have a lot of time to think so the fleet box in the playbook great method for playing well. But I also learn about the dockside of Gulf the downward spiral. What happens when everything goes wrong? Let's give it a listen. We often say the first signal is that you've got a little hesitation IP hesitation of your name or your club. Or even something with swing. This don't feel comfortable. And then you go ahead and hit it. And you don't get a good result. And then people tend to start the whole fix it piece. So then you know, that may be hesitation for few more shots, but it's Firestone to now it's confusion, and they're not just getting like hesitation signal. They're literally and searching scam. Like, which swing things gonna work of? So the one by show, we'll something's wrong. Now, I must fix it. When really that whole, you know, once we often say one shot is not a trained, you need more data points to actually see that. You've got a swing thing you need to fix. But. Yeah. So we see that thing inspire down. So what we we help coffers lot with I need to know. What was the things that you play real awhile? Most governors don't know they'll say well, make pets in my drives in the fairway like doc in you need to know more. What you do when you play what could be seen see the Bumfights clearly or Tempus staying like little below hundred percent to the finish. You know, you need to know where things that happens when we just called the my fifty four our language, but you need to epic off needs to know. What do you think do play? Well, sometimes it's enough for a month after the round sit down the Hosa played. Well, this things that happen talked about paying partner. So I did not talk my pairing partners. Or, you know. So you get an inventory. And then they need to know when I lose it the dollar inspire. Something happens. You also need to be curious about how you do that every place you need. But some we always are very consistent with how a mess up. So like me Mataya life. If I start losing it to happen attempt to quick in start worrying about the future. Linda's totally different. She she gets my grip pressure to tight, and then it has its technical equivalent of the face get shut. To help the gophers knowing what to do doing the play web. And then the need to know one refute main things that have every time they get stressed loose it. And then it's about catchy yourself early to know what to do to shift back arts, the the downward spiral your great play or self and you're an instructor. So you probably have students calling you panic all the time. Can you relate to what and Linda saying here about the downward spiral one hundred percent as a former player can I did play for living played in college too? I personally always liked to plan B. So my teacher my whole life. Jim mclean. We had to come up with a swing that was a plan B. So that I did not fall into the trap that Lee that peon Lynn talk about which is searching and trying to fix it. On the golf course. Not just understanding. Hey, you're gonna hit about shot. Nobody deal just get up and down, but you can start to make bogey-bogey bogey. And then you've gotta stop the train. And you better have something in your arsenal. That. Can bring you back. So that you can end up shooting. You know, a very low scorn stay in the tournament my students, relatively speaking. Whether they're ninety shooters eighty shooters are my college level students. It's a lot about with PM. Lynn talk about it's being able to control yourself as a human being a fully functional human being on the golf course. No matter what's coming at you having the tools having the data points. I thought what they said about writing things down when you're in that good state when you're not in a good state and really figuring out for you. What happens when the adrenaline Drennan is off the charts? One thing that they do on the range that I think is really cool with some of my players is you practice at a high level of adrenaline, maybe jogging place. Maybe do some jumping jacks at what level of adrenaline. Do you perform the best? Maybe you are in that place, and your friend says okay now hit a low draw fifty yards with five iron some crazy shot that you may need, but under massive stress with that address. Ellen and you figure out what level of pressure and adrenaline. You can perform the best in those are things you can do on the range that can transfer over or hopefully transfer over to the golf course it's group point wrote because it's all about densify how you act in a neutral state and a post of state and in a negative state. Like, I remember, I was such a range rut growing up. I was on the driving range all the time. But I remember I was playing terribly in this one tournament as junior Gulf at the time and somebody had videoed my swing, and it almost looked totally different. It looked. I was playing terribly that day, and I was nervous because it's always in this downward spiral, and my swing was just like a foot shorter. And I realized wow, when I get nervous not only do I tighten up naturally, but I stopped trying to guide it I still trying to hit it. And I just thought trying to push it down the fair. My swing gets really short. And I'm practicing a move that. I haven't been practicing all this time to now. I know that when I get nervous playing. It's it's I need to focus on really stretching and making that Fulton. And I'm just and I just think it speaks to this point. And it's what you just said to how to everybody's different. What do I do when I'm nervous or when I'm playing like understanding every understanding their own traits is so important to solving that problem is the first step right fresh air, and then not the emotional resilience, which they talk about too. So not judging yourself, not berating yourself. You almost have to be your own best friend out there in order for you to get through the bad spots, which are going to happen. That's golf. Also. I think if there's some sort of acceptance of it, and there's gratitude in there that you can ride through those spirals that are invariably going to happen. Because like we said that is the game of golf. They're gonna happen. Wh what was you'll tendencies when you went when things weren't going your way on those rare occasions when you weren't playing. Well, what would you refer to? I think what I had to do was that three quarter punt shot with my irons. Interesting. Yep. So if I just started to miss some greens. I wasn't a very long header. So I was had a great short game. Always never really missed it fairway. But if I start to miss some greens. Yes, I could get up and down. No problem, but I really hope problem. No, I really had to go to a three quarter punt shot, and then once I started hitting the ball solidly. Again. It's you know, things happen on the golf course you start to get a little more confident, and you feel momentum going for you rather than against you. And you can kind of get back on track. You're hoping gophers listening now can take away they can say, oh, you know, when I get nervous when I'm not hitting greens loaded. The maybe I should try hitting a few punch shots, maybe that won't work for them. But maybe it will. And then they know that the next time the having an off day, although specially nervous they can have a can develop a Goto short. That's the they've thought through and they can feel more comfortable and also. To your point what you were talking about with your back. Swing a lot of players that I teach have the same problem. They shortened their backswing. So a nice feel is complete your back swing because you gain time by completing your backswing. So when you're under pressure, and you feel like you're losing control of your swing so to speak you gained time by increasing the length of your backswing. So a nice swing thought is complete your backswing or feel that you complete your backswing. So goes part of what you just mentioned with your own game Olson will stubby and funk Sapir Nilsson and Mario together. They're the co founders of vision fifty four go check them out on social media up vision, fifty full they run Gulf schools all around the country preaching the mental side of Gulf so go check it out. Arth every next segment I'm incredibly excited about the goal to Coleman Gulf magazine, Instagram audience, if you could ask a top one hundred anything what would you ask them? So a lot of questions and comments came in. So I'm going to wrap it five Peifer them at you. You can give them you'll take you can help Gulf audience. Get a little bats at you ready. Let's do it. First up shirt training plan for three times a week practice at the range. I would delineate the time that you have to practice three days a week. If it's a half hour, you could break it down into ten minutes. Ten minutes. Ten minute increments. I would do whatever your game needs wherever the low hanging fruit is of it's short game. I would do ten minutes of long day, ten minutes of five feet in and maybe ten minutes pitching and be done grew advice. Okay. What is the most important part of the Gulf swing to Mazda? A good grip for you can tell you. What's win another major? Oh, gosh. It's tiger. How can you say? I can't bet against that. Man. I know how important is club fitting versus lessons beyond important. I think that's something a lot of people. So forget, right. That those two things on apoe, they work hand in hand in many ways, you have to take all the guesswork out if you're properly fit you've taken that equation out into Loch or overlap grip. And why again, totally student dependent go see a proper teacher that can give you the right grip for you. Then another one here. Why do I suck? Golf is is a game of variability. You don't suck. It's just tough. How do I stop lifting stones on the downswing? I would say make sure you get a physical evaluation and understand that it might be fitness related or physical versus your golf swing. Just take that occasion at us. Well on here says what do I shanked the bowl when aligned with the mat on the range? Why do I shake the ball? In other words, when the Matz misaligned and you try to aim to flag where it's not a line. He shanks the ball apparent is this a common problem? Itsel interesting. I had a student the other days a little OCD and the Matt was not aligned properly. And we literally had to move the Matt which is fine. If you can't move the Matt you're just gonna have to block it out alive rods down if that helps you and hit the center of the club. What's your favorite on-call snuck? Almonds. How did you get to where you are today? A lot of hard work. What are some tips to practice for consistent? Takeaway. Well, go to a right teacher because there's a specific takeaway. That's that's correct for you. And then it's gonna take some you could do some Mira work. You should get a good drill that works for you. If those things don't resonate with you. You have to get the right feel you could do some stuff in the gym that relates to you. So it's just understanding where your takeaway needs to be in terms of the club face, your arms, your hands and therefore your body. How do I fix my chicken wing w well, that's the effect of something. So you gotta figure out the cause it's usually an open club face. So I would go to the club face I and then worked on the release war this good question. Here the hung thought about what people say choking up and choking down. When the actually the same thing. I don't know ROY. It's one of those weird things that I never really thought about. I don't know. What made you do what you want to do? Why I saw golfing? I playing seven once play the tour when I was twelve so I've been golf my entire life. Most of my best friends are within this industry. And it's just invariable that this is what I was meant to do north few more here will wrap up. A would you roll the teach or play on toll? I'm still a little bitter that I didn't make the. But made the European tour and had the best time. And there's no way my life would be where it is had. I not stopped playing when I played so got to get over it and move on. And love what I do. I am so blessed to do what I do. So this is a really great question here. How important is it to have a neutral grip, and is by to have a strong or a weak grip? So again, it goes back to what's the right grip for you. You can't say that because there are many grips onto our that a strong weak neutral. They work for that player. The right arm structure, you should go to a teacher that can assess the right grip for you. None are bad. And then finally when you look at a swing what is your? I thought what is the one thing you're looking for when you look at a swing an amateur professional and amateur. I think just good balance. Good tempo. Good rhythm, the intangibles that that would help you play. Well under pressure. Are you f- wetback his your body mobile flexible? Do you have the strength 'cause golf is a repetitive. Swing on one side. So is your body able to handle and withstand the golf swing? She noticed though, the loss William jumping with one more thing. This is a good one. What's a number one thing you would recommend to a beginning. Gopher. Let's say go find what what you and I talk about go. Find a really good instructor to help. You navigate this game. Because it's a wonderful game to play. And with a good instructor. You'll enjoy it more. We'll be a great aunt's. But unfortunately, it's incorrect because the correct answers that you should subscribe to Gulf magazine. And of course, go sign onto Gulf dot com. Thanks so much for doing these rapid fire Twitter questions, and we love hearing from audience members. So please reach out to us at Gulf underscored comb, and it's the same handle Instagram to next up. We have our colleague Dylan to chair who wrote a feature our February redesign issue of Gulf magazine. It's what about Dustin Johnsons long game is going to pull a tip from it. And describe it for us. So let's give it a listen. It's great stuff. Stop swinging driver as hard as you possibly can. That's Dustin Johnsons message to recreational golfers. Swing it fast. He says, but how often do you see me finish off? Balance. Dustin swing speed comes from a lot of work from being in the gym from stretching from technique and from talent to most of his drives. He's going about eighty five or ninety percent if he's really going at it. But he says if I ever swung one hundred percent I'd have no chance at connecting. The same is true for you at home the way most recreational players you're gonna add distance by making solid contact catching the ball. In the center of the club face is the main key to maxing out your yardage. So stay consistent resist the urge to swing out of your shoes. And remember the best way to add yardage is by hitting the middle of that club face. That's gonna do it for the first instruction episode of the golf dot com podcast. Thanks to a Nielsen. And Lynn Mary at Dylan to chair, our producers, Lucas O'neil and Rory forget, I'm Debbie Doniger from be bringing you this poll cost more frequently so stay too. And if you don't already subscribe the Gulf compulsive, I tunes will soundcloud from all of us here at comb catching next time.

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What Malcolm Gladwell got wrong about golf

GOLF.com Podcast

28:43 min | 4 months ago

What Malcolm Gladwell got wrong about golf

"You don't get to run the world for as long as rich white guys have without being pretty widely and some of their best and wiliest work has been on the golf course. Let's start by saying that. That's not me I love goal. That's Malcolm glad well and in two thousand seventeen. He made it pretty clear that he's got some issues with the sport. There's no denying it. Golf still has a PR problem given the game checkered history with inclusion in the way it still perceived as a game for rich white men it should always be willing to listen to outside voices especially bright influential thinkers with big followings like Malcolm Godoi so I want us to listen back to wells episode and Parse through his criticisms find out which ones are off base and see where he actually has a point. I'M TO CHAIR. And this is the drop zone. I'm here with my drop zone. Co Host Sean. Sock and Sean. I want you to start off by telling me. What do you know about Malcolm? Glad well really. I know he's a smart dude and he kind of monopolized the ten thousand hours theory that you just have to do something repeatedly forever and ever to become an expert at it hello lil revisionist historians Malcolm Global here. I've read some. God was books listening to a bunch of his podcast but he re entered my mind a couple of weeks ago. When there's a twitter post that broke out suggesting that the presidio golf course in San Francisco would be better used as a public park I'm glad we'll chime and he wrote on twitter. Liberate the golf courses of America in other words get rid of Golf and reclaimed the courses? We're all supposed to keep six feet apart. Which is really difficult when everyone trying to get. Some fresh air was crowded at the same sidewalk. Meanwhile there are massive tax subsidized private golf courses in the middle of every American city. Full of beautiful green spaces. That are totally empty. Well Sean what did you think of this? I got really fired up. Mainly because I love the presidio. Golf course I don't want anyone to touch it Dylan I've played it. Have you played it? I've been to the presidio. But I've not played the golf course. Yeah a lot of people. Have been the presidio. Because it is a gorgeous park in the northern part of San Francisco is very close to Golden Gate. State Park Presidio. Golf course takes up. One hundred forty nine acres the presidio at large fourteen hundred ninety one acres so the Gulf course ten percent of this gigantic park. That is a public course. It gives reduced rates to San Francisco local golfers like it was very cool. That picture that went viral of people sitting setting up a picnic in the fairway. But they might as well have done it somewhere. Else in the Presidio to like I think the theory here you could add another six blocks of central park on the north side. It doesn't mean that strawberry fields won't be as crowded as it always is so I I just get really fired. Up when Gladwin lumps Olive Golf and all of parks into this. You know one bucket. We love the idea of golf being more public more accessible. So we love places. Like the presidio. But anyway after glad while posted this picture he actually reposted his original podcast episode which was called a good walk spoiled because his he said it's one of his most popular and divisive episodes ever. So it's pretty simple. Sean I want us to walk back through Malcolm. Glad Wells podcast. I want to show you ten places where I think he got golf wrong and then I wanNA talk about three places where I think he actually made some strong points all right in a minute. We're GONNA play again. Just to get the golfers riled up on my my first point. Sean is not every golf. Course is Los Angeles Country Club. I have a friend who lives in. Brentwood on the Westside of Los Angeles between Beverly Hills and Santa Monica. My Friends Street dead ends on Santa Boulevard. One of the central East West corridors in L. A. His basic problem here it's about as I world as they come right when he goes to visit L. A. Crashes and his Buddies Guest House and one of the most expensive zip codes in the country and on the other side of Santa. Is this absolutely gorgeous? Golf course one of the many private country clubs at L. as famous for likes to go running but when he goes running he wants more options but the thing is most golf courses are not like Brentwood country club or l. a country club. They're not situated in the middle of super expensive densely populated neighborhoods. Most Golf clubs do not cost six figures to join most golf courses or not even in cities shown this representation of golf falls a little short. Yeah it is slippery slope number one for glad well because I don't play golf at these places you don't get to play golf with these places you and I play thirty rounds of golf a year and we're nowhere near places like this so it is not a good representation of what golf courses at large are like well. What's funny is we actually. Were very near some of these courses. We went out to the genesis invitational. earlier this year we stayed in Pacific palisades and We actually went for some runs. We recovering the event. I should say at Riviera Country Club which is very much like one of these places but we were working not playing there but we did for some runs and one of Gladwin gripes is that there's nowhere else to run around. They're not really true. Sean we went to some beautiful places on our runs will rogers state historic parks. Just three miles away. I found this kind of strange. Gripe the one near. My friend's house is called. Brentwood country club and it has tall chain link fence around it which goes almost all the way out to the street leaving just this narrow rocky dirt track. There's no sidewalk. And since there aren't a lot of places to run in Los Angeles tons of people run around the Brentwood Country Club on that narrow. Dirt track. I look at Google maps today. Right you look at Google maps and the large majority of what you look at is gray neighborhoods and the beaches are like Tan and the ocean is blue and golf courses are green in state. Parks are green. So when you look down at Brentwood Country Club. It's green with grey around it. Use Zoom out a little bit and you've got Rivera Country Club which is also green. Darn the only green area here is golf courses zoom out just a little bit more and you start to see rogers that will Rogers State Park and you zoom out and zoom out and zoom out and use zoom out and this thing is absolutely freaking massive so my man glad well has decided that he wants to run towards the country clubs and he gets upset when he runs into the country clubs whereas if he just ran to the West go west young man he would have ran into one of the biggest state parks in all of California so my guy just has a direction problem. Yeah and I think that he could just run downhill eventually get to the beach. That's where we did some running which I loved was nice and flat But he also gets to this other issue which is number three on my list. Which is that if private golf courses weren't golf courses. They probably wouldn't be public parks and is one thing that always bothers me. Every time I run that route. Why do all the runners of West Los Angeles have to squeeze into this narrow rocky little track? When is a huge magnificent park just on the other side of the fence? Gladwin wants to be able to run on this nice golf course right but he also wants it then to be taxed at its highest and best use which will get to later but that essentially means it'd be made into apartment buildings to maximize value so if the golf course was turned into housing. He still wouldn't build a run on it because it wouldn't be a nice park unless he likes running upstairs. Yeah I mean. But he's he's made it clear. He does not like the city streets but if it were seized by the city and turned into some sort of public park then suddenly the city would be losing more money. Those surrounding houses would lose some of the value. They have of being on a golf course and you know if the taxes were the whole problem in the first place things are just getting worse so I think clad walls gripe here is just kind of gripe and not really one with a solution no definitely not I think if anything it probably constrict those areas would add more people to those areas if you just build up apartments and even if you just build up parks going to bring more people to the area and I think at the at the core of all these gladwin issues in L. A. specifically as a population density issue not so much a golf course issue. There are a lot of people there. That's for sure which brings a number four. Sean which is that. It's not actually the golf courses fault that there's no other greenspace around right because one of Gladwin issues is that the only space around that part of La. It's golf courses or cemeteries next time. I'm coming to fence. Maybe we all should. But that's not. The fault of the courses are the cemeteries. It's the fault the city for allowing everything else to be turned into housing. And so I was thinking about an equivalent to this and say Sean that we had houses next to each other right. Y and say I decided to build up a big house and then pave my entire yard right. We've got a few cars. I've got a you know. GotTa have some place to park them right. You definitely have a lot of cars and you on the other hand. Keep your house nicely size and you manicure a nice green lawn. And what if I suddenly say Sean? You Know I've noticed. There's just no real grass around here except the stuff that's on your properties. I think I deserve become play on your lawn. So you and Gladwin very similar. Just the reasonable man with his nicely mown lawn to to move us in a slightly different direction. Cher what I found online. So there's this thing. There's this nonprofit company called the trust for public land and they've created this thing called park service a phenomenal website it basically has mapped out all the parks in the country and they put him in the areas and they take on layers of of population density and they basically see how many people are within a ten minute walk of parks so like when. I went to college in Madison Wisconsin. It's one of the best places in the country for public pokes ninety percent of the people in Madison. Wisconsin live within a ten minute walk of public parks. That's really good. Twelve best in the country. La Is fifty fifth best out of the top one hundred cities in the country. You'd think that's probably not that good but really glad we'll send it's a one of the worst which is actually according to this data ally because fifty fifth best out of one hundred last. I checked is not one of the worst middle of the road. Detroit Jacksonville San Antonio. They're all worse. Houston BALTIMORE MEMPHIS. Louisville Nashville. Those are all worse than La. So Mr Well I'm GonNa die even a little bit further. He wants some of the courses in the Beverly Hills Culver City area to be made public parks. He wants if he really add his druthers. He'd make Brentwood Country Club. A public park again using park serve that phenomenal website. The top five places in L. A. Where another park? When make immediate sense in that it would offer a park within a ten minute walk? That people don't have those are all far far north of Beverly Hills the northern part of La Granada hills the Encino area. So again the guy's not wrong. L. A. has a little bit of an issue here but it's not a huge issue and it's not even in the areas that he has picked out well and the tricky thing is really when you get to that magical point where. Brentwood country club would suddenly turn into a public park which by glad wells later valuation would mean that. La The city would have to buy it for like nine billion dollars so anyway. We'll get to that. I want to move onto number five. Which is you know this whole idea that there are just too many golf courses in la in general or in San Francisco. This is actually more point about the presidio in his world. There's too many golf courses. But we're podcast to the people and we want to see people in general get access to golf courses so that it's not just the people that can play at Brentwood country club. All right so Malcolm's onto something here. Okay I think that are plenty of golf courses like the Gulf world especially in America. We hit our peak in terms of the total number of golf courses in the early to mid two thousand. This all follow the same trajectory of the tiger woods boom Tigermania and now it is coming down in his kind of starting to level off around the same number of courses as the early to mid nineteen ninety s prior to when tiger woods professional career began so la does not have the same number of great public horses as San Diego in San. Francisco's really again. This is L. A problem when you think great. L. A. Public Golf. Well there's not a lot there's just a little bit too many private courses lasting rate public ones. That's the lease my take on this thing. So you're saying we don't need more golf courses. We just need to maintain accessibility. I can get yeah I mean and I think glad would agree with that because right now he continues to come like traipse around Beverly Hills and just kind of sees a bunch of country clubs everywhere. Yeah well and then. That's the impression that we get as listeners. So that's perfect transition to number six. Sean Gov is not just for rich white guys clad while calls it crack cocaine for rich white guys but seventy five percent of the country's golf courses are the public. Guess what the well. I'm not GonNa make you guess I'm just going to tell you the average greens fee on a weekend with a golf cart. So you know. We're not talking twilight rates. We're not talking. You Know Juniors before seven o'clock on a weekend at a public course. The average Greens fee is thirty. Six Dollars Golf Cart included. So there's a lot more golf courses that costs twenty bucks than there are courses that cost two hundred bucks another fact about golf rich people really really like it. They're obsessed with it in a way that there just isn't any peril ordinary people. You know there is this reputation that continues to Follow Golf around. But there are a lot more places where it's affordable than there are where it's not and when you look at the breakdown of junior golfers it's a much more diverse group than it has been in the past but still you're absolutely right. The sport is still set up as a rich and white and male haven and that is bad we completely agree we would love to see it more inclusive but there's nothing actually wrong with the game itself right. It's just the problems of society that are reflected in the game. Golf itself is an amazing way to get people into nature who wouldn't otherwise get outside. You know it does any number of good things for us so if the problem is that golf is too rich and too white and too male. Then how would removing the low cost accessible options help towards rectifying that problem it? Wouldn't SEAN number seven. Glad will kinda seems to say that golf is essentially just a waste of time. I don't think he really means that. Glide wasn't avid runner. He's actually very fast guy. So you'd think you would empathize with an activity that gets people. Outdoors has people active. It's good for you mentally. It's good for you physically. Some studies have argued. Actually extends your life if you keep playing golf. So there's a lot of benefits that I think would relate to. Yeah unfortunately he picks apart partis sample set of CEO's who play a bunch of Gulf. The C O's are playing around at least thirty seven times a year. You and I don't play that much and we work at Golf magazine so these guys are playing a lot but he goes on to to further kind of equate what that means for their ability to work and he says that if these. Ceo's are playing one hundred sixty hours or more on the Gulf course. Well that's the equivalent of five and a half weeks of work and Yeah you know that might be true if you just worked from sunup to sundown every single day. Three hundred sixty five days a year. But we know that that's very ignorant of the fact that most rows of Gulf take place on the weekend Saturday Sunday even Friday afternoon Thursday afternoon. You knew also spends a lot of time away from the office doing hobbies CEOS who bowl and see you surf and CEOS who work out in the morning and who mow the grass in the evening. He kind of like presents this world. In which CEOS and CEOS who play golf should not be doing anything but working from sunup to sundown fare. Plus you know it takes a long time training to be a fast long distance runner which is what glad well has spent a fair amount of time. Doing which is great. It's just funny that then. He considers golf such an obvious. Waste of time. When you know running takes up a whole lot of time to because serious. Golfers are super anal about their scores. We can actually quantify their obsession in order to calculate their handicap basically how well they're playing relative to other people the country club the post the results on a database maintained by the United States Golf Association. So we have a record and it's a gold mine. He in this Grad student are looking at the top. Fifteen hundred CEOS of those three hundred sixty three have handicaps and then he takes the top ten percent of that group and says that those guys played thirty seven times on out. Good for them really just talking about then. Thirty six out of fifteen hundred CEOS. So that's honestly probably a little bit lower than I thought. Yeah twenty four percent. Keep their scores into a handicap. I'm shocked that it's not fifty percent. That's actually though gets us to number eight because I think we need to give just a quick shout out to the handicap system. Having a handicapped does not as Gladwin implies mean you have an unhealthy obsession with golf. It just means that you keep track of your scores. Like glad. Well is a runner. I would almost guarantee that he has strada or you know Nike running or some sort of APP that tracks his performance in. I'm not even a runner and I keep tracking my performance. Everybody does that. Yeah so you know. Having a handicap is not a mean that golf is a dangerous habit And if it is then you in really bad shape. We're in trouble and we don't play nearly as much golf as the whatever. It is the top ten percent of golfing. Ceo's to that Point Sean. The bear stearns CEO is not a great representation of the average Golfer. This point number nine for me and this is an important one because glad we'll go so far as to connect Golfer. Ceo's to the economic crash in two thousand eight in July of two thousand seven right when the crisis was beginning the CEO bear stearns would often helicopter out from Wall Street on Friday afternoons to his exclusive course in New Jersey to get around in before sunset even when his company was collapsing. He couldn't stop playing golf. I think you'd find a fair number of people cut out of work early on summer Friday afternoons probably not just the CEO shoot us. Yeah well not us as much as we would probably like to to be honest but I don't think that bear stearns ran into the ground because it. Ceo was playing too much golf on Friday afternoons. It just seems unlikely to me. Will you know who is in a great representation of average golfers? That guy CEOS. Yeah at large and yet glad will use them as the definitive group of golfers. The A group of people who play this game while it's pretty bogus with our twenty five million of us but again global has a forty minute podcast and he wants everyone in the world to listen to it. You can't totally blame him for kind of you know grabbing hold of the most famous golfers in the business space the scary number though to me. Sean is this fifteen point seven million and that's the number of people who didn't play golf last year but said that they are actually very interested in playing golf on a golf course. It's this like hopefully they're listening to this podcast leading golfers. We would hope that they'd listen to this podcast notch Malcolm Walls podcast and that brings me the number ten though Sean because this is an important point And it's the golf courses are actually not a waste of space which is the implication Golf courses mean a little bit more than just the total number of people that are on them at a given time they actually preserve greenspace which is a very good thing especially in a population dense. Places like La. It's all developed. Which is you know why it's so tantalizing say man. I wish we had those country clubs. I mean so glad. We'll gets into tax law but it's actually not uncommon for large landowners of Greenspace to get some sort of unique tax treatment. If in return they preserve that land is open space. You know even if it's not always publicly accessible so there's a lot of gray area here there's a lot of tax law but there is some value provided to the public even though the public can't access the golf course and I think that that is an important point. He's not a fan of golf us. A bottom line. Anyone who's on the fence. Who thinks that glad? Well is one of the foremost theories of our generation. They might be right about that and he still might be wrong about golf. Hurry but I do want to get to where Sean we do. Think we have some common ground right because there are some points where I feel like yeah we probably would see eye to eye with Malcolm Glide. Well and point number one would be these. Specific courses should probably be paying a little more in taxes. Let's do the math together. They should be paying ninety million. In fact they're only paying two hundred thousand dollars in property taxes. Ninety million mind is two hundred. Thousand Dollars is eighty nine million. Eight hundred thousand dollars. That's how much the taxpayers of Los Angeles subsidize one of the swankiest country clubs in the world every year. Yes one percent. Let's Kinda crazy yeah. It's hard for me to say exactly what they should be paying but currently there under this prop thirteen which has them paying one percent of the property evaluation from nineteen seventy eight. So it's like the ultimate grandfathering in and you know. I don't know about glad while even admitted this was a back of the envelope calculation of one of his buddies that put L. La Country Clubs valuation at nine billion dollars so even if that is an exaggeration paying two hundred K in taxes. You know might be Kinda low. So maybe there's a higher point where these clubs could still survive preserve their history preserved their open space but pitching a little bit more so that you know everyone can feel a little bit better about this arrangement totally agree and still just a California problem. Yeah still specifically. La Problem you go out to the head out to the country you know. I'm in a small town in Massachusetts right now. Land is less precious. Greenspace is less precious. You don't really have the same issue in the same way. But idea number two sean where we could find common ground with Malcolm. Glad well maybe courses receiving tax breaks in this way should find a way to share more with the public. The home of Golf Saint Andrews in Scotland is open to the general public. On Sundays in Toronto the fanciest golf club is Rosedale Country Club right in the middle of the city but the golf course is only private in the summer. The rest of the time. It's open to anyone who wants to go for a walk. Play Frisbee or go cross country. Skiing this does happen. Other places. Malcolm glad while pointed out grew up cross country skiing in Massachusetts. Love doing it but it doesn't seem like a realistic probably off season. Use for Brentwood Country Club in particular. I don't know but maybe there's a way that courses could provide tetons to the public or one day a week you know. Have people bring their dogs out in just not run on the Greens but used the open space of the golf course? What do you think Sean? Well I just WanNa you know I have been a little bit mean to miss through. Glad well to this point. I would like to give a little credit. The area that he picked out that Beverly Hills Culver City type of area. Where Brentwood Country Club? Is You know if we did. Put a park in that area. If we took Brentwood bulldozed to the ground heart just you know let land takeover it would rank among the top five areas that parkwood enhance life for the most people like it is a very densely populated area. It needs a park in one. Direction is one of the biggest state parks in the other directions. These golf courses so he's not completely wrong. Yeah and I think that they're you know maybe there's some creative solutions that people in the community could come up with two bridges gap between public and private in a more satisfactory way because my third and final thing that I think I agree with Mr Gladwin launch. The Gulf should continue to worry about this. Pr Problem this image problem. A lot of people are not pro. Golf they don't want courses reopening for instance during these corona virus shutdowns even though you can socially distance on the golf course as well as just about anywhere. I don't know people think that golf is just a useless thing reserved for a small subset of the population. And so even. If you're listening to this podcast there's a good chance that you are already in favor of golf in general but there's a lot of people that are not which is why glad podcast is so important. Golf is earned its reputation over a long period of time. A lot of people feel the same way that he does. So I know Sean we've still got some stuff in the golf world disorder. Yeah Brentwood Country Club. Maybe don't have barbed wire fences. Maybe something a little bit more welcoming. Maybe it's anything better than barbed wire meet. Gladwin called it East Germany ask. It doesn't look that good. There is a narrow patch of dirt. Around which is not paved as a sidewalk. The vines that hang on this fence they do encroach upon the road so like he's not wrong about how it looks from the outside on the inside. I'm sure it's absolutely gorgeous and I'm sure you are not going to get invited to play their anytime soon. That being said there's somewhere in the middle where we can meet and keep these golf courses. Keep a lot of them open to the public and also keep Mr Glad well. Happy as a runner and non gopher the perfect place to leave it golf courses. Remember be good neighbors because people are always going to be looking in through your fences. Thanks so much to leave finer who expertly produced this week's episode. We'll be back next week with an inside. Look at some of Golf's greatest treasures in the fascinating ways that they change hands for the drop zone. I'm Dylan to chair. Thanks for listening.

Golf Sean Gov Brentwood country club Los Angeles Mr Gladwin Malcolm Golf magazine CEO San Francisco United States Golf Association L. A. Public Golf Gulf Olive Golf Gladwin wells Brentwood Los Angeles Country Club Brentwood Country Club America Beverly Hills
Presidents Cup mayhem, Tiger Woods' leadership and Patrick Reed's future

GOLF.com Podcast

1:05:36 hr | 10 months ago

Presidents Cup mayhem, Tiger Woods' leadership and Patrick Reed's future

"What is up everybody? Welcome to the drop zone. Undaunted Dylan to chair sitting in the host's share this week. Shawn's Ach is home in Wisconsin Which means that? I get to run the show in the way I decided to do that. This week was by employing a couple of our senior writers Michael Bamberger and Alan ship so I give them a call to break down. What turned out to be a wildly entertaining presidents? This Cup ship. He was on his way to the airport bamberger at his home in Philadelphia and I just talked to them for a while breaking down. You know what we made of tiger the player capped Hatton. Well we made it the. US team the international side. And of course Patrick read. Hope you enjoy the conversations as much as I did and of course let us know what you think we'd loved get a five star rating. We'd love to get a review but enjoyed the conversations with Allen and Michael are joining me on the line. Is Alan Ship Nick. shippy you You've gotten to know this part of the world a little bit that they were just playing the President's cup in you're just a big trip you weren't actually on site but still I know you're watching intently from home. What a Presidents Cup? Yeah it was a good one memorable and you know my choice came down to you. Want to go to Australia. And play golf courses or they want to go into the President's Cup in and watch other people play them. That was an easy choice. I have no regrets on skipping the President's cup in in favor of the greatest golfer of all time but Yeah it was. It was a terrific Presidents Cup. We needed the international teams. That comes strong long and make it a competition and an add some suspense as soon as single started you kind of got the feeling that the US is going to win but at least we had that feeling on day four they to like last time around. I mean it was. It was quite a spirited effort from a very likable international team and obviously Royal Melbourne was was a bit of a you know a star actually probably was D- star of the entire thing along along tiger. So I I think between the the the young scrap internationals like Sunday Abraham answered You know folks we kind of fell in love with would this week with tiger stellar play with with the incredible setting of of Royal Melbourne With the Patrick read controversy and then A lot of fun momentum changes throughout the week I it was it was about as good as you could hope for. Short of international is actually winning but that might have been too big of an ask. Yeah I I mean if you had told me you know a week ago oh the. US won the President's Cup would have yawned generally in your direction but it Kinda worked out a perfectly the way it played out. They upped the degree of difficulty for themselves by playing so poorly. The first couple of days. they kind of handicapped themselves. Maybe that maybe they should always start like three or four points down not a bad idea. you know. We'll see Ernie els is top secret. moneyball approach approach to the pairings. Maybe there's something to that And and that they can carry out successful forward. Yeah Well so you filed a vow to report card for Golf Dot Com right on deadline. Actually I will say maybe you're motivated by wanting to go to bed but I wanna just run through a few of your grades in. Let's start with the good stuff actually so tiger woods. The player received your top grade. You gave him an a+ what was it like watching tiger this weekend It was just it was so satisfying artistic logistic triumph. You know. It was the kind of golf that only a handful of players who ever walked the earth. You could some in on of course like that. I mean the precision creativity the total control of Golf Ball. Just the utter mastery Eh. It was it was just so Freezing and satisfying. I mean. It's just the way that golf courses meant to be played and tiger hit every shot. I mean he was taping the ball high and low and bending in both directions and he was using the curve the Greens and the slopes Luke's the swailes and the humps and hollows It was it was just beautiful. I mean it evoked You know Hoylake and some of the really sanders in two thousand and I mean some of the all time great tiger performances and the only quibble is that he played three matches instead of four or five. But it's Kinda like you know. Live fast die young beautiful corpse like that I think Tiger Salami this week. You didn't Overdo it. He he left us wanting more like like many of the great artists and so undefeated it was. It was shocking when he he didn't announce his name. I thought although then in retrospect it felt like Oh you know the guy takes four hours to warm up. There's no way you can really kept in the morning session and then really get ready to play in the afternoon but that was still a surprising call. Yeah you're right. I think he needed to play in the morning session. Just get up for him. Like tiger. LOVES TO BRAG ABOUT AND Get ready to play. And just he's got all those vice captains options and they come out and talk to him. I mean the real the real issue was out there playing. You can't monitor the morning competitors. And if they're struggling who does he sit busy bench ends but ultimately they needed points at that juncture and he was their best chance to get points as a player and you can still communicate with with his vice captain so I we definitely took some out of the whole thing when we sat himself for the entire for day. Three is really the the most interesting day the President's Cup because you've got the double sessions Washington for him to to sit himself was a drag. But you know Tiger knows his body better than the rest of US clearly and To put put himself out first and single set the tone against two you know one of the two best international players in in Abraham so You you can't you got the win as you got the win. In the captain he went undefeated player. You can't really second guessed it. It was just the the golf fan and all of us just wanted more of it but it work. uh-huh Tiger push the right buttons when it came to Tiger well because he was putting such mastery on display those first couple day. Yeah the first couple of days. I guess playing with Justin Thomas he he just looked so in control of his golf ball. The course set up perfectly for his current phase of game. which is you know? He doesn't hit taunt but really he gets in trouble. If there's long rough maybe if it's cold in years to fly the ball long way but this working the ball on the ground I mean and it was great it was just a masterclass of of how to play golf and old style golf. You know that was that was not bombing. Gouge that was that was swinging. Think it was It was just a totally different. And that's why it was such a revelation because we get used to watching the same kind of golf from the same guys and the same kind of courses and it was just it was just so different and If they played you if the masters would go cut the rough and take the trees out and Tiger would be the favorite for the next ten masters And if if if more majors are played on on more designed and set up like this I mean he could he could win twenty five. Yeah but you know real real narrow setup real long rough at planes seventy six hundred yards That's not tigers game anymore so It was just it. It was Kinda like turning back the clock. You know. This is like watching savvy in the eighties who was that? That's kind of how how I felt. You know when you watch. Those old highlights realized how savvy navigated the links land. I mean it was really kinda evoked for me and it was. It was just so much fun to watch and he capped it off with incredible You know walk in. He was. He was shaking Abraham answers hand. By the time the ball actually went into the whole. I don't know if you've ever even got it out of the hole but It was pretty amazing and it made me think like watching that. How crazy is this so we're just sort of taking for granted that Oh tigers go off? I in singles you're GonNa and you know dismantle answer. I know it was only one by a couple up but the match never really felt in question. It's it's just a crazy place to be especially that he's captaining the whole thing that's right and and where he was two years ago. I mean it's still you know. I know we talked about it a lot. But it's almost like you can't talk about it enough because it's so insane. Exactly that's just say I mean where he was in two thousand within fifteen with the tips and she eighty five memorial and gouging a foot of turf off the first tee at the old course and then you know the a dui in two thousand seventeen thinking about thinking mugshot tiger out where he was and his life and his game is back with a mess. Do you know he's telling people he was done. We believe them. Yeah and the mountains climb since then. I mean it's not everest rest. It's taller than that. It's really. It's really unbelievable and What a joy it is for this this victory lap? I mean every swing is precious. Because we don't don't know how long it's GonNa last You know he's he's still a little fragile physically Is the recent me surgery proved but I mean it's just such a gift to keep getting these these moments you thought the Masters was the Absolute Pinnacle But to watch like you didn't Japan when he won that tournament. I mean that was. That was two two thousand two thousand putting and watch him navigate this golf course. I mean that was that was the mid dot ball striking and So so he just keeps turning back the clock. It's it's really it's flabbergasting with this guy's doing in the river quite lucky to get to see it all right. Let's buzz through a couple couple other of your grades really quick because I know You're on a little bit of a time crunch catching a flight for a golf magazine story over there. Justin Thomas you gave him an A. Hey and this is interesting because for What was it? Fifty Four for about three and two thirds matches. Justin and Thomas was having the best week of anybody hands down but then he loses his last three holes with Ricky Fowler on Saturday to UH to slip into a tie and then lose a crucial singles match on Sunday. You still give him an A. What did you think of? Jt this week. I mean I was generous generous because they the first you know two and a half sessions the. US is on the ropes. And and Justice Thomas in some ways single handedly Eh. Kept him in the ball game of felt like at times like he was He was just a huge amount of energy to that team. And you have great vibes with tiger. You know tired starting to carry them on day one but he was there a few times when it was needed and I just felt like pomace was was from momentum standpoint what he was doing What was just gigantic? US In the ball game and then it did kind of run out of gas us but eventually the calendar Calorie arrive behind him and so the the singles loss was was a surprise but there's one of us us guys to play five matches and they overcame that. I mean maybe an a with generous but you know to get three and a half points out of four partner play massive. You can't do much better than that so looking at this American team shy of Tiger it was kinda strange. There's not a clear identity entity to the team you know tiger being the captain really brought everything together but sh- beyond just thomas there. There's not a clear like heart and soul all of this team. But he felt like he satisfied that requirement or filled that gap party. I think why I up to his grade because he's just really emerged of all these young Americans he's He's become the leader you know. There's no speed obviously there's no cap Dumping off and look just interested in these team. Events feel like like jt. It's clearly become the guy the Americans between Paris and Royal Melbourne. And so I'm giving giving them credit for that because like you say I never been a great Ryder Cup player. He's been amazing. The President's Cup but You know who who's going to carry the flag forward you know Patrick Reed is now our radio. Active I mean feel is is writing off into the sunset I mean I think it's pretty clear that these American teams are GonNa Belong to justice Thomas and Those are big big superficial but I thought he really. He really came through when they need them. Most mony clearly loves it and I think in some ways that's what we need as viewers and as interested parties ladies watching the President's Cup. You need these guys to be invested. Jt obviously was all right. Let's switch over to the internationals you gave out one a plus and that went to Sung Jae. Am who went three zero and one. We still don't talk about this guy enough but he's spectacular What was your favorite part about watching Sunjay this weekend? Everything I mean. He's he's he's a great he's a great mix of old and new. You know he he does he does smash it and he can. He can really attack a golf. Of course the guy just plays shots. You know. It's not with him. It's not paint by the numbers like You know some of these other young players. I mean he just just he just has a feel for the game and he has no weaknesses and it's just so satisfying. I could watch his little slow motion back forever. It's probably my favorite ever swimming and golf. I love little smile and he does something to help the team like. He's he's a very likable personality and You Know I. I did a story on Sunday for for Golf magazine. LA open. We went out to Korean barbecue in downtown. LA which was a blast and he. He was talking to him like he said his biggest goal for the year. More than winning major anything else but to get the president's cup and You know make a great showing for Korea the for their national team and so You know I I knew how much this meant to him and see him come through like that when again. Their national team was also looking for an identity because they constantly are right they often are yet. I mean we all Love Adam Scott The great gentlemen. He's got terrific swing and all that but he's never kind of been able to be the team leader that they need You know King Louis. Of course we all of its golf swing. But he said he was such an introvert and he's got the resume and he's playing the bus these teams but you're not really going to be their leader You know their nationals researching and then some turning to their MVP and he took on that role I thought he was charismatic. And I thought you know he obviously delivered on on the golf course so it sets them up you know with guys what tweets years old. He's GonNa it'd be there forever so they have found a new cornerstone and that was big international. All right so you gave out a few other as you gave. Patrick can't lay a minus. RICKIE FOWLER MINUS ZANDER shuffle. So you gave a generous a minus then on the international side. Obviously Abe answer impressed. He got an A. But let's buzz down to the bottom because well let's start with poor. How Tong Li? It's hard to have tougher week than how Tong Li get got impossibly benched the first two days which never what happens there. You know. There's only four guys total that sit and he was two of them So you got a feel for how long he got an F.. I mean earning Ernie is the guy right he he he made the judgment and I think it tells you all you need to know about how prepared how motivated how song but then He. He Got Bentson when he had a chance to play. You got smashed twenty so it wasn't like He. He didn't exactly have anyone pining for more. How long I mean we when you when he played he was awful so I mean it's it's tough right. You can bench like that. It's GonNa down your confidence you feel out of it Eh. Church your pride. It's not easy to go out there and play after the capital showed zero confidence in you but You know he did. You didn't it didn't deliver so he could have been a D. minus. I don't know I know I know I mean I think that that's fair. Especially you know. He hit out of order he was hitting balls falls backwards off trees. He I mean he had a tough week in some ways who sits in these things is just as interesting as what actually goes on And that's all the fun and the injury is who gets picked who plays with WHO who sits Brace into Shambo got benched a bunch by his buddy tiger. What did we make of that? I was interesting. I mean you know. Tiger is so discerning and like the play Catlin five times and to keep you know give splinter in Bryson's booty I mean I can't tell you how he assesses their game but also but also the personalities I mean Bryson is a very Kirke dude as we know He does things a very unusual way. And I think that's okay in a tour event but in partner play a little unsettling and so oh yeah some of it is is a repudiation of his game but I think a lot of his his approach and his personality and Tiger likes them he plays practice. Sounds them but I think in his judgment. This guy was gonna be hard hard to pair. Other players with and the captain's job due to surrender those those harsh judgments in tiger. Did I know well. That's what's interesting is that the it's the easiest. Default thing is to not make those difficult decisions not sit anyone two consecutive matches etcetera but I guess tiger did that with himself but he he really did it with Bryson. You gave Bryson a C.. Minus let's go to the bottom. Actually thought you were pretty charitable bowl with your Sometimes you're a tough greater. Feel like you gave everyone a little bit of benefit of the doubt but I. I think you're just because it was such a fun Cup you know if Maybe I was just intoxicated by the The good feelings of the of the event and perhaps when I was drinking while I was watching it but no it was it was in the end. It was it was just a good show. So you gotta tip your cap so the competitor I mean they're doing what they entertain us for four days and So I guess maybe I I was I. I was a little generous no. I don't think it's a bad thing. I mean winning also takes care of everything as we know but Patrick Reed was the one guy we have to talk about. Patrick read. You gave him an F.. Plus he was not good losing his first three matches alongside Webb Simpson. He is caddy. Hattie shoved someone punched. Someone reports are still kind of coming in and no doubt getting buried along the way. I'm not sure we're GONNA get full transparency on this one I mean and then he he comes out and does Patrick read things goes what was he six up through seven holes on poor. CT Pan Sunday. So uh I mean just a this. Was Patrick read in full this week. We got everything I mean where to even begin with this guy. What what his future on the team? And does this change things for Patrick. Read at all well tiger went out on a limb Kinda rehabilitate Patrick read after all the mess and Paris and this is how read repays him. I mean of course when Tiger picked him. You couldn't have known that readers can become embroiled in a cheating scandal the week before the Cup but but I knew it was a risky choice. I mean dysfunctional. People make for bad teammates period and read these functional as they get and so It was just it really put a cloud over the whole thing. I mean it was just ugly Americanism at it's worst than the caddy patty and you made a good point on twitter. Actually like if he was fearing for read safety and he had he had to shove a fan out of the way. Then I think we all understand that. But you know Kessler comments a lot had enough of the heckling. Okay too bad like you'll get to jump off a car somebody or whatever whatever fact happening that was one of the most incredible will statements. I've ever read. It was like you know he came out. Didn't apologize at all said basically every other caddy would have done the same thing but in the same statement was basically self-incriminating that he just he was just fed up he had heard enough. Someone said something mean to Patrick read which must happen all the time especially at these events hauled off in A. I don't know if he hit him or shoved him or whatever but I can't remember so much attention being on someone for a negative reason anticipating that something bad adler going to happen and then that thing happening even worse I mean Brandel Chamblee was saying at the start of the week that the US team made a deal with the devil when they brought read on and and things just descended from there and the fact that he wasn't even winning team matches that he can't win without Jordan species. Oh Seven and oh I think without Jordan spieth in these team matches the poor guy It made you feel for read because things just piled on and on and on or maybe it didn't I actually don't think most people did feel for read. Yeah I didn't really feel to read. I mean it's just every time you WANNA extend some sympathies to him. It just gets worse. I like that that shoveling gesture was just pathetic. Like he's just essentially taunting the entire game. Say nothing of of the. PGA Tour showed no backbone I mean it was a slap in the face of Tiger Woods who showed a lot of competition and it was just I was it. That was embarrassing for him. First team for the United States for the game of golf I mean that was gross. And then you know the the caddy's just alot your expectations are teen. Read always somehow managed to exceed them. It's just it's incredible dispirited. His teammates in a strange spot. Because you know early in the week especially everyone was answering questions about you know. Was this cheating. Is this going to be a distraction. I love that by the way the question. Is this going to be a distraction when it's like that is the distraction is asking whether it's going to be a distraction but the US team really had to back him essentially they had no real choice. Tiger had no real choice but you can also see that tiger and read are seem pretty tight eiger. You know who is more controversy in his golf career then Tiger Woods. Nobody so there's probably on some level he understands and read in a way that nobody else can and you'd probably have to empathy. I mean tires been and obviously a lot of. It's self induced but tigers had to deal with a lot of stuff in his career so I think he. He understands the chip on the shoulder. I got a plane landing on my head at LAX. But Oh God that's good for you but You know I think You know tiger contrary or anything like Kana class and you could you could generously say the same things about about read so there may be some affection. But but they were they were wedded by this this captain's pick as as you said. Tiger had to throw in with with read lot this week. You had to go all in on read read because not only did he pick him but he needed him to deliver and and Tiger stubborn guy so he's not going to pick him and Benjamin which he should have just kept doubling down doubling down now I mean a million dollars in the hole at the blackjack table you still pushing chips out there. Because he had to read with his guy right and you know finally in singles Jose at least delivered some some pretty good golf but It was it was messy and ugly and How much how much better we all feel feel Brennan? Todd had been the captain's choice right you know I mean we're we're all we're calling fort real time. That's my biggest complaint with tiger is the captain is he. Didn't he didn't need to take read and all his baggage didn't need to put them out there four times But he did and it really. It really could put a negative negative feeling in the air. This whole presents go are you gave take Tiger A. B. Minus and now you've got to run over there but let's leave things on a more positive note. What would you have given royal L. Melbourne the golf course as a great if you it included it in your in your column here well a plus plus I mean it's not real Melbourne's fault it? The modern game is overwhelmed. Guys at nine irons in the par-five that was dispiriting. And it takes away some of the fun Of how you know if you're in a four hundred and some of those green how you really have to run it up and use the the trajectory versus just drop it in a you know a short iron but nevertheless it was it was attack you know if it was just gorgeous on TV way. The ball is rolling. I had on the telecast and one of my daughters was just watch for a few he minutes and hit a little little too long knowledge the ball roll over the green accelerating enrolled about fifty yards. Wow what happened like you know. He's he sees a little golf on TV. But even for for not really an avid spectator she could t- there's some energy there. She thinks on immediately which I thought was interesting. And so It was it was just so fun to see that golf. Course I'd been there just A month earlier got to play it and and appreciate it through my. I just see the best players in the world. Navigate it the shots they hit and the putts they hold it was it was magic and I think we can all agree. We need we need more big time events there. WGC's And anything else we can think of because it it really. It's it's better than the national and it's more fun than Augusta. The national in and I would I would like to see real Melbourne hosted big time event way more often including the Australian Open which is great but You know other things that attract attract more international players that necessity. Yeah I mean it just remains this truism that watching the ball moving on the ground running away running into trouble well you know good things happening some shots bad things happening to others. It remains just a more entertaining style of Golf To Watch but but let's leave it there because I know that you're running to catch a flight We will stay tuned for whatever secret project. You're currently working on But things should be all right. Thanks for having me go drop zone. Michael Bamberger. You are officially Coming live on the drop zone. All right where are your sidekicks. So Shawn's Ach is back home in Wisconsin -Sconsin for the holiday for him and actually just talked to your other colleague. Alan Ship Nook for about twenty minutes so I thought we'd put them together. Make a little sandwich. pod You've covered a number of presidents cups. You've been to a number of presidents cups. You were not in attendance attendance at this one. But I'm curious about your impressions watching because look if you told me that the US was GonNa win. Obviously not a huge shocker. But the way it went down was more intriguing than I think we would've guessed right and I think we were both thinking that it was going to be close all along. I thought international's would win because I thought the jet lag in the In the nature of that role Melbourne course would just be to much for the Americans coming in late as they were and And Paulie zingers observation with that given given gift. Give these guys for days and they're going to get over jet lag and they're going to figure out. Of course. I think that was a that was a very telling one but then there was and I know people are tired of this but I think it's very significant. That Pat Reid wrinkle is very very he hipping because you know many would say flat out cheated In the Bahamas event and now he's on your team and you've got your your the team captain your Tiger Woods Your Webb Simpson. You've agreed to play with them. You can't can't use a phrase throw him under bus you've gotTa do you gotTa embracing eve no even though every last person on the team if you gave him truth Sir which which say. It's repulsive what he did in that trap it's so antipathetic. Ot everything that golf stands for and yet this guy is one of your twelve guys and not only that he's a big presence with the big personality so you're balancing that it's a very significant factor. I think in victory and It's a credit to a lot of things you know the skill of the golfers But I think first and foremost It's a credit to to tiger her in a new area for him of management of other people and And he did a beautifully. I couldn't can't get over how much he seems to enjoy. You know having the earpiece in hands in his pockets of his jacket Kinda strut around and seeing. What's going on or your impressions of Tiger The captain? Obviously we've seen him. You know. Be a vice captain before but this is something different. He looks great. You you know he's got that The zippers halfway down. You can see a little bit of shirt and wears you know he's never playing with your thing rob puts it in his ear forum and it's you know it doesn't fall out you know like does for for a lot of captain saying he looks like he knows what he's doing and he And he does know what Tiger Woods is a highly competent person. He's not going to do something and not be good at it. He doesn't make fun of himself particularly every once in a while. He does But I was deeply impressed and I think there's a level here here. I'd like to hear your opinion about this but tigers and only childlike rory's. An only child like Nick Faldo is like I think Justin Thomas is And an AH only children miss out on something and one of the things they miss out on is the give and take of being a a sibling. Of course you know he had Half brothers and sisters But never he never knew them or an didn't grow up with them and And then he was such a guarded personality for so long. 'cause he was trying to beat Davis love and Phil Mickelson and all these other guys and now this generation's has come up that is far younger than he and And their own almost like his kid brother's and you can see them the way he response to them and you can see joy he takes of being the big brother and Almost half of father but mostly big brother and you know it's part of the remarkable Evolution of the man. I think it's been very exciting to see whatever whatever you're doing. What are your impressions of the captain's well? My impressions were. It was in some ways hard to separate during certain points tiger the player from tiger the captain captain it then it became very easy to separate it but the first couple of days I was really struck by okay once things are going poorly this. US teams suddenly really. There's not a lot of identity on the team. And the exception to that is tiger woods and it is just Thomas Thomas in terms of the that younger generation of players but then tiger you know obviously being the leader and the captain and and the the greatest you know arguably of all time but ah I was just struck by Okay Tigers really holding this thing together because yeah you have a lot of great players but you don't necessarily have cohesion or or anything like that and I think I do think the Patrick read thing. It just kept getting bigger and bigger and I was saying this to Alan Alan. I don't remember US having such anticipation for something in in a negative way and then that thing being somehow exceeding our expectations I mean the data and turned out to be worse. Is that what you're saying exactly. That is true that is true. Because there's there's no contrition. Well he went in three he was. He was unapologetic. His caddy shoved a fan and was even more unapologetic logistic that basically incriminated himself in statement. And said he you know got pissed and hauled off and hit a guy from the sounds of it. That part of it was a disaster anyway. This started off as a thought about tiger woods. Patrick Reed Put Tiger in a very interesting spot and I think in that was one of the One of the more compelling subplots was how the entire. US team was going to handle that. No Question Patrick. Reed put Tiger Woods in such Adad spot here and it took all the group Tiger Woods antenna other players to overcome it Because of all the all the reasons you decided because there was no contrition He he because he because he made a bad situation worse. I mean the first thing any child learns is to take a bad situation. Try to make it right. He made he made it harder and harder for so they So that they all really did rally around Tiger and they had and they had the golf skill to do it. I mean you hear that a lot that you know players want to play for their chapdelaine and it's ridiculous. You know you play team golf at At Williams and you know I don't know what your relationship was coach but I'm sure you don't WanNa let your coach down. You don't WanNa let you makes them but at the end of the day you've got you've got a golf skill and you can only do what that golf school later do. So it's easy to Overdo this but on the OUTTA hand. We have so few opportunities to do in Golf To really see how people respond and then of course the so then we watched the shots and the shots are very interesting but the shots. What's in singles are really gyn is golf ball? But then we get to see the shots of of the reaction you know and And there's couturiers and there's you know there's Fred's threads Fred couples and there is lots of different ones but one of the most interesting wants to me. was how unbelievably reserved inappropriate tiger whereas in the interview with Steve Sands but then but then when he got away. You know from you know. The focus is on me and I've got to represent the team in the culture of what it means. Wt captain but then when we as the Fred a minute later he couldn't be believed was uncontainable and And you could see how much it means Tiger Woods to be on a team just to be until he's been on teams you can say he's been on teams since the late. Nineties indies Certainly At the country club for for Crenshaw's Famous team there but I don't recall them ever being on this years ago. actually said this Directly to me I was asking about his so called indifference To to team team play monitor come play and he and he says to me How what what was Jack's record In invited cup play and I said I don't know you said that's my point. That's very interesting. That was that was telling But now he realizes that forty three nearly forty four that there's more to this world than just achieving records and It's it's it's throwing. What struck me in? His reaction action was just the investment that he had clearly made investment of time and attention but definitely emotional investment and for for him. The idea of losing this thing after all that investment must have been crushing I mean I think it must have really been weighing on him and you just saw it. It was a feeling of relief and which reminded me I. I was struck by the feeling of relief when he won the the masters last year to that seemed like the overwhelming emotion and this guy just invest so deeply and things. He clearly cared so much about winning this cup. Even though being a captain you know everything is largely out of your control. There's only so many levers you can really pull. It clearly. Meant a lot to him. One moment I wanted to ask you about is when he and Ernie els were going back and forth. Hopefully you didn't stay up to watch the the picks Saturday night this happened. Probably about three. Am Your time but tiger was asked about the crowds and he clearly had a message that he wanted to deliver that the cry he didn't want the crowd's going over the top. He wanted everything to be respectful. He didn't want people giving patch agreed hard time and it really felt like you know he. He was giving the the answer that he wanted to give regardless of what the question was and then Ernie els came back at him and said you know look the crowds in New York worse worse than this. Whenever were on the road we get you know we get grief we deal with it we move on? We don't complain about it. Felt like both guys were saying the exact correct thing for their roles but it it also felt like the main moment of sparring and jostling between the two captains pick up on the transcript. They didn't I didn't actually see. What was your impression At liberty national in two thousand seventeen in terms of how the crowd was was responding. Well will these. Saturdays tend to be the days where I think things get taken to the next level because it is Saturday because you know people are drinking being people are making a really a full day out of it. By the time Sunday rolls around people have the you know the work week at the forefront of their minds so it seems like Saturday Saturday at liberty national the. US was rolling. It looked like they might win the whole thing. And and certainly there was some Derision but my impression wasn't and it wasn't like bethpage this summer felt far more out of control then liberty national. That was my mets memory of it. At least right. I don't recall Saturday. I mean not have been there on Saturday but Sunday was was you know. It wasn't competitive that all but my point really at any point So I didn't really know what Ernie was talking about. But you know as as often the case in these things is there the words that come out of their mouth and then what does it actually mean and I think Ernie you know who handles himself in public A very well I think he Am Very appropriately. Always but I think there are a lot of conflicting feelings. Say he has a for tiger I think I think there have been times. Zip Real antipathy Ernie's part For Tiger and what those are exactly today I would. I wouldn't be at all qualified to say but I think some of that. Ah what was coming out and some of it was Some of it's so beyond anybody's control I mean. He spent the primary his career answering answering a lot of questions about About Tigers Great and what he'd really like to say is if I could make ten footers reliably this guy you know. I'd be nearly as good because a lot of guys Could say that there wasn't really anything. Tirkey the Gulf while there and he couldn't do and yet You Know Tiger had the had the fourteen in an earnings call with the four I think I think you picked up on a very On a very interesting moment and I think tiger has a very deep understanding understanding of his presence He could say one thing in a press conference in in my actually Influence points some people So that was Yeah that that. That was a very telling moment. BET that you've picked up. I did feel for Ernie. Because in some ways this microcosmic of his career. Long relationship with tiger. You know he's putting up a fight but no cigar close but no cigar just not not working with the same talent. That tiger was in this case the loaded. US team verses. I mean when that singles line-up came out and you really look at the one on one match ups ups. It just doesn't look good for the the guys in yellow or gray or green or whatever the internationals colors really are You know that's true and you know just to get back to something you said a minute ago about about relief. I think that was very insightful. Because I think you know we've you watch tiger for years now and I've watched on his whole career going back to examiner days and I think what you just just said. I think there's so much pressure on him to win and I think he loves winning loves getting other guy but he almost hates losing more now in this particular case all there is winning and losing others tied to the you know but but but leaving that aside now he was under a lot of pressure here because hero despite his sponsor of his event the week before this big international event did not WanNa change that date and he in. I don't know the INS and outs of it but I know they did not want to change. You know. They changed by one day. But that's nothing but it wasn't like they moved at two weeks or just said well. Let's not have it this year. So you can focus on your on your President's Cup so do is a lot of a personally at stake. It's like Oh man might have I been so so selfish here that That I insisted on having this this this Hero in the Bahamas and then haw ourselves the other side of the world for this thing you know with no sleep I have I asked too much so so I think there was a tremendous Sensitively I think give picked up on something very important there but also just just one quick thought about his Matt Kuchar made a very interesting comment when you said you know. We had these two weeks weeks together to you. Know Look if you in in Sean and nuts and I went off on a On a golfing trip for two weeks. You know we we have we. Have you know we relationships now but imagine how much they would be enriched by you know nothing but golf for nothing but golfing meals else together and talk about our lives where we are now where we where we wanna be for two weeks. You don't get that in real life and and And they did you'd get the gift of that and I think Picked up on that. And I think that's a insightful to say the least yeah so I wasn't in Australia but I I did spend that that we in the Bahamas with these guys in. That was the most striking part about it is it was just two-thirds presidents cuppers. You you know there were some family there. Obviously then they spent their entire flight together. They're going to be on a comedown now. After spending all that time together and one curiosity in that regard is what happens with Patrick read now because this is not a story. That's going away. Obviously it speaks to a bigger things in the game of golf issues of cheating. What what the penalty will be if any going forward with his caddy And it's it must affect his relationships just in general on tour I know and and I think it even affects Jordan speed as well L. in a weird way because it's not I'm Jordan speedco file and I imagine your as well Dylan and I mean he really got passed. Asked and repast. Your you know ones Brooks was on the team and then he had another pick tiger. Did you pick Rick sollers he calls them. You know I don't know what he did. I don't know what Tiger would do with your name. You can't say Dilonei bills I guess you become. It's interesting ricky. Valor becomes Rick With him but But for Jordan speak. WHO's my wife doesn't like when he uses for everybody so classy and appropriate in so much has the correct team spirit had been such a perfect twelve man for this team? And then you've got Patrick read Instead and he's a lone wolf and he's really not part of the Team Spirit Yeah that's a that's a very troubling thing And the fact is well well. I shouldn't say the fact. The inference is you know I think they say if if I think estee tripper you know people studied this kind of thing I would tell you that guy gets pulled over for drunk. Driving person gets fully drunk driving. Well there's been eight other episodes of drunk driving and chilly gets caught. You know that that would be roughly. He's the district now says it's very unlikely I'm not talking about Patrick Reed specifically here. That would be unfair. But it's very unlikely that someone gets caught flagrantly absolutely breaking the rules and it's a one time thing so now here's this guy who could be having the hall of fame career who who has a standing invitation for dinner on the first Tuesday night of April for the rest of his life with Tiger Woods and Bob Goalby and Jack Nicklaus and you know all these other you know Gran names of Golf For the rest of his life and and he's got this episode On Him It's really I think it's serious. Four Patrick read. But I think it's serious for J on PJ tour as well because You cannot have a culture in golf of catch me if you can. And if they do catch me. Here's the worst part. Maybe catch me if you can. That's not golf and then if you do catch him I'm not even embarrassed about you. Know and and sort of tell the viewers. You didn't really see what you saw. That's the that's the world we live in now. Oh I guess my question though is do you think. Do you think his appears care in their own. Golfing lives well. Is this a big deal to them. Does this feel like you know this is this is an affront. The fact that they don't know that they can trust this guy. If that is or not I I don't know how couldn't be because Anybody who's not playing by the rules is essentially stealing from the rest of the field. They're stealing from us the public. Because you know we're both baseball fans if you watch Sammy Sosa You know I hit a home run and you know when you were a kid say and playing baseball yourself. And you don't know that he's got you assume he's gotta wooden and he's actually got a court that then we don't really know what we're watching so So any kind of guy wins a tournament signs at card and we use him. This guy has played by the same rules as everybody else but turns out. He hasn't Or we don't know whether it has not That defiles the entire game so I don't know how to answer questions on. I don't know how anybody he could not be really concerned about A about the actor. They're gonNA have to watch. Patrick read more carefully and then after which each other more carefully carefully because we the public have to have people to use that phrase from the most really but we we've the golfing public who support this game and pay their salaries by buying. You know all the all the products that they're selling Depend on believing those scores. Well what do you think the wh- what made me ask. The question was really this video of Justin Thomas in a practice round that I don't know if you saw us in a bunker and he was sort of poking being fun at Patrick Ridi would he did the thing read doug the sand out from behind the ball and he said you know period is how you do how you do it or whatever he said but the whole thing I think rubbed some people the wrong way because to the viewers it looked like oh these guys were Yukking it up. You know the. Jt's fine with Ed. He's over it whatever. It's no big deal. Well that's interesting Now is there any other way to read that just in time clip in other words that assumed years you know humor humor with some ten to be humorous to actually Try to say something really That's deeper more truth. Truthful could could would that be overrating or could there be sitting. There definitely could be that I mean Justin. Thomas is definitely somebody that he's not afraid to take shots and maybe a light hearted way with with some deeper truth to it. Yeah I mean that would be my that would be my my rough interpretation on. I'm no otherwise why you would even bothering that that They turn pitcher and episode like that into a joke I would think you'd have to be something else going on because it's not a joke. It's the whole basis of what makes the thing work as you were just saying with earlier. Patrick reads response to his own. Situation was SORTA proof of. Catch me if you can. They did catch me but even if you caught me. I'm still saying well. You know I'll do what I WANNA do. You just happen no catch me this time. And that's that's Trojan so I think it's not a big big issue. My feeling is this that a lot of golf's honor system custom and where that comes from is the fact that there's no way to monitor what everybody is doing at all times so that the whole sport just breaks down if you're not calling fouls on yourself but in the professional game now there's so much big brother there are so many cameras the you almost don't need it as much. That big brother thing is very real it becomes more similar to the NFL or the NBA. Hey where look you can go to instant replay. You can see just about every shot that anyone hit at a given moment and even you know where they took a drop. What they did in a bunker are so I think it's sort of is a natural shift towards okay? Now you're watching trying to catch me. The onus is no longer on me as a player to you know police myself. I mean in other sports part of it. It's accepted that guy's not going to Y- he's he doesn't WanNa get called for pass interference. He doesn't think the ball went out on him. He's GONNA act accordingly. You know no matter what the reality is. This just feels like I think the cameras in golf being everywhere. I think. Make that more possible. It's all very well said And those knows every other major sport that you know that we watched and then we grew up playing does start with a cultural starting point of catch me if you can and and now you WanNa make the case. Well you can bring that to golf. Because there's so many more cameras out there. And let's say for Augusta. It's almost true. You know almost the hundred odd players in the field. Almost every single shot is recorded and you could sorta watch it but and this is very significant. But it's really not true because as Amelia Games can happen First off there's Thursday Friday and one hundred fifty six mansfield. Ninety eight percent of those shots are not being recorded in any way and then you get all the weird things that happen guys in the woods that ball. Nobody's around there you know you're over that ball ball move or not so Yes Patrick agreed may have the feeling of. Oh I'm being watched like the whole time so catch me began. But it's really not it's really not the case and it will never be the case because the playing fields too big. There's too many people playing guys are going to watch. Patrick read more carefully and my and and incorrectly so well and I think he's going to walk on eggshells at least when when he walks into a waste area. But we don't know what this guy we really don't we really. I hope you're right but we don't. I'm really not and we don't really know where he's been. I think that is also very troubling part. You know we can all look up. His record is right there on the Internet every single. Look you shot He's He's played thousands and thousands of shots in his career. Ready and and the simple fact is right now we don't know how reliably he. She has self reported his own. Golf and You know I look this up or help. America's national held out this And you've played a lot more. Well I have planned in competitive golf but tell me in your more recent golf experienced. You still see. The word attest on the scorecards attest best. Yeah there's there marker and the marker and then I think it says a test yeah well. It does sometimes but it doesn't other all the time in Augusta national is a very powerful word. Of course a test. You know it's going it's you know it it's it's Oregon's not origins and its use for sure But we you know you know when I was first learning about golf. That was like this is your moment to make sure you've got it right. And that moment in the scores room was sacred to gather your thoughts and say you know. Did you move the ball back When you're on the thirteenth green did that all move in the woods Where are you carrying fifteen clubs and didn't tell anybody Attest to what you're what you're GonNa do here that this is an actual truth. Well accounting of what what you've done And and it so happens at Augusta National. I don't know if it's true elsewhere. They don't have that word unscripted anymore. But I but I know if you go from just one course another. You'll see a lot oughta scorecards with that word. The words not that important that the what or important at all but what is important is The APP behind it or you can have. That's worker in your hand. Forget about cameras and anything else. Are you going to hand in a truthful scorecard and by the way if hot and there's no todd anymore but you know J. P. Morgan Morgan all these other Sponsors that spent millions and millions of dollars sponsoring the PGA tour. That's what they're that's what they're betting on is the that's why they WANNA be Partners PJ or is the school because because there's so much credibility from the golfers and if you lose that they're gonNA they're they're they're they're going very very interest after my well and I've I've been down this Internet rabbit hole whole of seeing you know there's little grainy clips from the past of it read doing something similar in two thousand fifteen. There's a couple of clips of you know. He seems like he may have a habit of of putting his club down behind his ball. In a way that improves his life. There's a a clip from two thousand sixteen the Northern Trust where Peter Kostis is out on the course with him goes over over seas reads lie read pulls out a An iron as if he's GONNA lay up on this par five and then on the broadcast costs us says well you know he just put the iron behind the ball four or five times and then he pulls out three would cost says I mean the lie that I saw you would not be able able to hit a three wood from that lie so anyway I mean there's it's it can be dangerous to just go down these rabbit holes but it it feels like this is maybe something this guy has done and maybe he just you know the most charitable way to look at it would be he just needed this one time call out and now oh he'll realize you know This is the thing I was doing. I didn't totally realize I was doing it now. I won't do it anymore. Certainly that has not been his public facing approach though right and and also I think you know. He's he's a very famous golfer. Who's being scrutinized There are hundreds of the other players out there on the minor tours and the and of course the PGA tour and LBJ. And you're all thousands of golfers over the world and and And he can't be the only one You know you've described by and we know about the other one in the You you know trapped in the waist area at In the Bahamas They're not one offs So gops got got got. I got a double down on its commitment to To the rules Shambley about this the other asset. Do you know from from your day to today. Do you think golfers or more studious. More casual about playing by the rules of golf and And brand said do more nervous That that's that's very talion. You shouldn't be nervous about time by the Rose Gov you should simply play by the rules. The Golf it's like You know if you've if you've done your taxes this is the right way you know. I mean nobody wants to pay their legitimate tax. But the fact is if you don't pay your legitimate to ex- you've broken the law and And you you know you're you're subject to all sorts of penalties and problems now on the other on the other side if you if you just know you've done your taxes axes right and you sign your taxes Senate in you know worry about a thing if my hate everyone hates it but you're not worried and and And the same should be true The same should be true on the PGA tour in the Games. The Games really In an interesting place and In Tiger militias. Speak for one minute here to end on a on a happier note while I was actually I have two questions for you. What well how about a good player? I just like get your feeling on this. Yeah how about the balance of those tiger woods iron swings. I think he's abandoned. The idea of keeping up with the other guys and I think that that's been really helpful. He's he's not worried if he's hitting five iron you know someone else's hitting getting seven iron and so he's he's surgical with these iron shots. The tempo is amazing and he looks just so in rhythm and you know the thing always with him. Was Distance Control yardage control. Aw being able to flag your iron. I mean every Golfer knows if you hit it pin high you can hit ten feet left ten feet right. You've only got ten feet left. The Tigers always done is controlled. The length his golf ball goes and I think he's doing that just so well right now. That's very well said it's it's I agree with all of that. There's absolutely in his driver. I think there's still some some hit to it but with those irons every last Arnie it there was just a swing. Just no hit. Just just just the swing and speed of the swing is astonishing as well but it's got so much bounds into mature them. Now that's all very true. Two last questions. was there anything you saw from the entire week. That that surprised you at the Presidents Cup. Well I was surprised that people are surprised. That tiger sat himself for Saturday. I mean that's his thing he can play when it's cold rainy like that and takes it. You know one thing that we've all picked up on from from his own comments is it takes a tremendous amount of time for him just to get his body ready to play around golf You know and that Saturday. It was the busiest captaining day of the four days by far because he you know you because you're out there all all day long So I was surprised that people are surprised. The tiger sat himself for Saturday. But I thought I thought he was saving himself for Sunday. which was going to be important news going to be a better captain than it would be a player that day Because I don't know lend itself just up so I will. I was surprised by that how. `Bout how `bout you I was. I was surprised in the moment but then thinking about it. It's like like okay. Well if you didn't didn't play the morning session. So that he could captain you know. There's no time for him to warm up for the afternoon session. It wouldn't have the mechanics of it. Just don't work. There's maybe thirty minutes in between making picks and and teeing off so really it just wouldn't have worked out as long as he wanted wanted to actively be a captain exactly he doesn't warm up like you and I know you and I can show you know in the car park and go to the first season go play. He needs three hours. Yeah well and then my last question Michael and where will leave this is how will you remember this President's Cup what will be your enduring image image from this week. How will you think about it later on? Well I think that you know I that might that might change over time but right now because except just found myself thinking about tiger a lot this year is that you know this caps off the great you know. Tiger Woods has been one of the most electrifying figures in the culture sports since he emerged on the scene as a teenager and now he is at forty three about to turn forty four and he's just wrapped up. I would say the most interesting year and has golfing life between Masters Win The Japan win and in the President's cup and in some decide things traveling Thailand with his kids and his and his mother and other things and just to see. AH WE'VE WE'VE my you've seen this guy's life unfold and just see him enter this period of adulthood late but better late than never. That's that's the that's the way I take it. How about yourself Yeah I mean I think his his reaction definitely sticks with me the way he showed how much he cared about. You know it's the President's Cup it it's it's no one has mistaken the president's since cup for the Ryder Cup but certainly this was an event where he was the captain. He was the player he took both of those roles extremely seriously. And you could. I just see the relief. You know the joy the excitement And the bond also with the rest of his team which I think think in the past has some of that has been for show tiger actually now genuinely does seem to be friends with these guys mm-hmm and in a more meaningful way. I mean there's no way for us to really know but the I it looks like he's friends with these guys in a more meaningful way. I feel like a lot of that came through through just in the way he celebrated win the team won not just when he won his match right. But really your answer is correct one in and where we should leave this so thanks so much Michael Correct Answers Fund. Dylan's while the good writing and catch in your sleep. Your that's going to do it for us this week in the drop zone. I hope you guys enjoyed those conversations half as much as I did. Alan and Michael do of the absolute best in the game game lead us to review US rating. That would be fantastic. And we'd love to hear from you until next week. This is still in the chair and thank you for listening coming to the drop zone yeah.

Golfing US Patrick Tiger tigers Tiger Woods President Justin Thomas Tiger Woods Ernie els Patrick Reed Tiger Salami Masters Bahamas Wisconsin Michael Bamberger Golf magazine Australia Abraham Golf Dot Com
Brandel Chamblee

GOLF.com Podcast

56:43 min | 10 months ago

Brandel Chamblee

"All right folks we are back. It's Shahak and Dylan to chair. This is the drop zone. Sound tons of great feedback from last week's interview with George Genghis. We hope to get through just as in depth and even a bit nerdy. Our discussion today with brandel Randall. Shambley Randall nerdy but cool sean narrative a cool. If you don't know Brando it's kind of wild but he is an on air analyst for the Golf Channel. He's got his own podcast over at golf channel with high. Media's love both of those guys. We sat down with Brenda for fifty minutes at Pinehurst at the top one hundred teachers summit to talk about everything from his work with the golf channel on the air live from at the majors to his research about the Gulf. Swing his own attempts to play competitively again. I think you'll enjoy enjoy it but first this episode of the drop zone is brought to you by whoop is a Finnish tracker that you wear on your wrist attracts everything you check your phone for all the Information Asian on your sleep your activity your restless nights how much strain you have put on your heart and your body. You should try whoop but you should do so with a discount go to whoop dot com and to the code drop zone. That's D. R. O. P. Z. O. N. E.. That's us for fifteen percent off your membership. Get involved evolved folks Dylan. You geeked out during our Combo with Brando. Oh my God I loved it. I mean he's one of the best. Pure are talkers. Yeah in the world of golf right. You know you talk about People will say when Rory's at his best no one can beat him when Brandel is at his best best no one no one can beat him in the world of talking. He elevates the game of talking about golf. He's an entertaining. Watch you know Oh. There's a reason that when we get home after covering majors all day we still flip on live from his crazy to me and we will do it though and Brandel has a lot to do with that. I mean it's a great production from top to bottom but his voice. Sometimes it's a little bit ridiculous. It's a little bit. It's like ten percent more than people I think it should be. Why he catches all that flack but look? He's an entertainer and he is a really really thoughtful guy. He does his research and and I think that that comes through in the interview. Definitely does I've known brand Dole a little while he is always a good hang always down to share information. He's all about the the exchange of Ideas Sean. The marketplace of ideas yes We we could have talked with him for ninety minutes two hours. Probably but we had all get to dinner so without any further ado here is Brando shambling. We are down here at Pinehurst with. I think the only Brando Gulf that I know Brandon. Do you have another brand on your phone own My son my oldest son is senior is junior okay. Yep and I've had two or three people over the years right me and tell me that they they name their kids so so there must be after a few hours the name whatever I'm I- burdened my oldest son with the name and he plays a little bit the last time we went out and played He had formed up airmailed me with his first shot. I've gotten a little longer since then so wait a minute I think. Take him right now. But I'm not sure you've got some speed we got some back. You saw you out there tinkering around. Yeah Yeah I've got some back so you know again that's part of why I'm trying to play play again is I'm using myself as a guinea pig for. Yeah all these ideas. But it's good to be one matt like a one name like although actors and actresses and insinger's covy say Brando ran a Lotta different names. Some of them are far more derogatory others but But Yeah I get called a lot of different names but I think you're also beloved in many ways for how you exist as a broadcast analyst on the broadcast I think it it can be polarizing at times. Some people were the last name Capco. Don't like you but a lot of people are like Brando tells it like it is and I'm sure that that is not something that came natural to you right away like you had to be developed a little bit no not at all. I'm a matter of fact you know the first two three or four years I think I was doing TV. And I've talked to other people I think most Kinda get into TV and they don't they don't really know what their voice is going to be. They don't know how to be themselves. It sounds sounds ridiculous right. How could you be anything else but yourself but you come into the business with an idea of those you love and how they sound and what they do and and and you can't help it it? It's a bit like when you get on the tour you look around. You WanNa swing like Watson Tiger and you wanNA sound like these different commentators in do you. You look I grew up in. mcchord is a great friend of mine and I I love his intellect and wit and reverence But at the same time you know I loved dubbed Bob Costas and I love Jim McKay and so you start to listen to those you think Jack Whitaker so you. Can you think well you know. I'm GonNa do it that away and then it's not until you figure out one. You can't be anybody else but yourself but to what that means for me it meant I'm I have have A never ending curiosity to know why things happen. So it's you know I love to dig and then I get you know. I can't tell you how excited I am. When I'm digging and I find stuff definit- takes me to other places and I think I can't wait to share this with the audience and by the time I arrive at it? It seems so self evident to me that you know for for a invariably people will take action to Sir but I generally try to think of all the exceptions to whatever it is. I'm about to say and thank. Are they valid. And if they're how can I refute them. What's the counter to those? So that you know you you think about something. Three hundred sixty see degrees and then you know we have an audience a wide audience. That does not really. I mean professional golfers. Make up a very very small percentage of our audience very much so I'm not speaking to them. No I'm trying to tell our audience. What is exceptional about? That is not obvious about what they're watching and that's not easy to do when you get into TV within a very short period of time you've told all the stories you can tell about golf. You've you've given every anecdote every story and you have to work your rear off to have something to say and you have to do it every single day and then you have to talk about the same anything you talked about the day before but you have to say it in a different way so you know I find it. It's a lot like golf. You know it's it's it's endlessly fascinating senior in your notes. Your notes are rather thorough. I think I can finally say that's what it takes. It sounds like yeah you know if you were playing golf and you were on TV. I you know I I would chart every shot that you hit and I would chart where it ended up what you did what the swing looked like and then I would cross. I'd go back in and see if you had those tendencies you know and then I would try to steal. What's what's going on here? Why is he doing wisey playing? Well why is he not playing. Well why wisey making this percentage Putz Wisey. Why's he hidden better? And you know it gets in. Look I'm GonNa talk about this some tomorrow but but it gets very nuanced. The reason MHM distance is so important to the game is because again. First of all horsing too long and straighten cough but if you can hit it twenty yards. It's longer. It's not just that you have shorter shots into the green. Obviously it's that you have a higher trajectory coming into the grain of more spin which means you're more likely to be underneath the whole which means that you're more likely to have a Putt at on a shot clock or putting clock at six o'clock or five o'clock if you play a fade if you if the three of us route playing golf and Dylan Sean. You guys hit eighteen. T approach shots at nine o'clock on a on a putting clock ten feet from the whole at nine o'clock and you are both better than me at putting your both. Let's say your ten percent better than me at Pike. Yeah if I had eighteen shots at five o'clock I I will kick your ass. No I don't think so. I know so I will kick your ass because you make about twenty to twenty five percent more putts all things being equal. Go from five o'clock than you do from nine o'clock okay. So that is why do fades when more terms and draws and why does height. Why does trajectory Jack Nicklaus one trajectory That's the more nuanced part of the game of golf. It's like people say you WANNA be in high. Of course you WANNA hit your numbers but ideally you want to be beneath the whole and you get far easier putts. You know the game just gets Exponentially easier the longer. You hit the golf ball. And that's one of the things we're Lucas and are going to talk about tomorrow. So are you seeking your own power fade than the part of this process you. Yeah absolutely I mean you know there are right ways and wrong ways to hit the ball further now I will give science a lot of credit give science and golf a lot of credit. I think that they've they've they've caught on on how to hit the ball farther. They've caught on and you know it's a combination of not to get too much in the weeds here. But figuring out center of mass senator pressure now they have three d motion Russian capture cameras and they have four sites those two together give you a qualitative and quantitative. Look at how you do it. So they're catching on. But what I have have been saying forever is it's just not that complicated You can have that if you want. Because quantitative is one put numbers to it but the fact act is if you if you if you generally speaking move off the ball get into your trail. He'll and have a big turn. Lift your lead hill. You're on your way. So the average tour player from two thousand seven two thousand nineteen okay. Now we've had an increase in technology much better. Shafts much better better fit on a better understanding of people call it C- award but it's really C. T. measurement they have a better understanding of CT measuring better Schatz better athletes taller athletes club head Ed's beat the PGA tour is increased by one point six miles an hour cameron turn. Golly last year increased. His club hits be by eight point six miles per hour. The most improved player. Strokes gained tee-to-green strokes off of the tee instructing total all the way through on the PGA tour. He did that doing exactly what I wrote that book about exactly and he did it. He picked up almost nine miles an hour like that. Did he read the book. Well I don't know if you read the book you went to Greg Rose yes and Phillips at TPI and Greg has said that the modern swing and is built upon hitting accurate shots and when you add elements of power you risk injury I would argue that. The modern swingers his impoverished Professional Golfers for thirty forty years and that. What Cameron Gauley did what Phil Mickelson has done? what Sam snead. He did basically anybody who's played the game uninjured for thirty forty fifty years. They all have the same sort of common characteristics but when Kamesan golly holly did he got rid of that Lor Doses right that that that con- cave lower back okay. It's hyper correct. Look Adam Scott Dot had for awhile again. I wrote a put. I wrote a chapter about the hyper correct ideas of this generation thinking that if you have great posture when you have that little curve in your lower back that you've got great posture. Because I I actually sitting extra teachers about to go on the golf channel and I said what are you doing. He's here to talk about. Adam Scott's that's great posture and I remember thinking ABS- has crap posture It looks good. Yeah it does. Yeah it looks good. Well Nice dead lift from that exactly. That's right if I'm going to do a dead lift I want my lower back in doses. you know I I I want that but if you're gonNA hit a golf ball now look George Ganga's Ankus wants it completely flat and your but run underneath you but the reason I love George and I've said this for eons. The first teacher that comes along at teach it teaches an uprise. Bryce wing will be the first teacher that I can think of in. I don't even know how long every single teacher has taught a Flat Golf Swing and yet upright swings kick the ass of flag house wings and here comes George so I'm fallen George Social Media. Everybody was saying. Hey you're George. I don't know who George is and I start shortfall. I liked this guy and by the way he teaches an Upright Golf Swing and an upright. Golf Swing is George will tell you. Among many other things makes you hit the ball farther other which from there so many benefits are accrued throughout around. So you know Georgia's like a godsend I think. Think to the teaching industry Ian Lucas. You know I tell Lucas all the time you know run around. I like Luke Luke Assualt. I like I'm like you. You know I like you know but you wouldn't be sitting here in the car next to me if I didn't think you were the best teacher in the world. There's like I I read I look I pay attention Lucas has done. What I think is the proper way to get better at something? Find out WHO. The experts experts are and by experts. I mean that subset of players look in the hall of fame. There's every different way to play. Golf represented every single club club. There's People Way Cross Alana's people way laid off. What I'm talking about is the subset of players? It's clear that there are lots of ways to play the game and get into the hall of fame but within the hall of fame. There is a subset of players that hit the ball longer than straighter than everybody else. I'm not interested in all of the different attributes that would get you into the hall of fame. A grey short great great mental strength tenacity. What I'm interested in is the golf swings? That hit the longest in straight. Is that subset of players. Because what I'm talking about golf swing. I'm only interested in the swings that hit it long and straight and I'm not interested in mediocre mediocrity. I don't I don't think we owe mediocrity anything. I think we owe excellence. Everything and Lucas has made it his life's work to study and understand with precision the anatomical movements of of the longest hitters in the game of golf and the straightest hitters hitters in the most precise hitters in the game of golf and to some extent so as George Jenkins so that's why I did what they do. So when you're looking at today's game who what do you think of as falling into that category the longest. straightest hitters the golf well. There's only been three players in the last eleven years. Lead strokes gain off of the tee. I'm I'm telling you guys know all this right. It's bubba Watson doesn't Johnson Roy mcelroy. Those are the only three that have led strokes gain off of the tea so crazy. Well they have the moves right. Yeah I mean so they have the moves. There are two hundred plus players out there. There should be still a stigma on the tour. You know like Dustin has has a funky golf swing bubba has a Funky GAW. Swing and Roy was lucky enough to be taught by a sort of a grassroots golf professional so so they were not they didn't come from big time academies they would not be the drivers they are if they did because they would have been taught to some aesthetic ideal and they would have been stripped of their athleticism so they have the moves and that's why they continue to drive the ball better than anybody. I in June so look look it bubble Watson right now bubbas much older than Dustin Johnson but Bubba Watson is the last person in the world. You're going Jim. The okay and he hits the ball further than Dustin Dustin Johnson when they were both thirty two okay so people love to say that he's got free cans and they love to dismiss great success as freakish talent. Not at all I promise. She's not a freak athlete. He certainly not a freak physical specimen. I was on tour when John Daly came out and people like. Oh He's a freak. Like I promise you not a freak week athlete. There's nothing special about his body K. He's five foot eleven and he's overweight and he is. He's he's the only only person that could hit the ball pass. Tiger Woods was John. Daly are now John No business hitting the ball past tiger woods. Tiger Woods is six foot six foot one a physical physical specimen Scott incredible flash bead with his hips. Why can John Daly? Why could John Daly hit the ball further than tiger woods simply because he recruited recruited the movements of his body and he had a more elements of power? Now in no way shape or form. I set up there and talk about John Daly being a better player than tiger woods. There's a lot that goes into that when it comes to link the elements of power are more represented. John Daly swing than tired now. Tiger gets deep into his right hip. Still gets one hundred thirty degrees shoulder turn. He has all those elements without lifting his lead hill But you know the the the the game slowly trending that direction nothing will improve your game better or quicker than picking up twenty yards fifteen yards. There's three examples examples that I I look at that are these are these are what the industry should be. Striving for nineteen ninety. Nick Price was ninety. Seventh and Driving Distance K Nineteen ninety-four. He was sixth. That does not happen. Here you can't do that but he did it now. You only picked up about fifteen yards. But he did it now by switching to another golf ball okay. He was an early he was the old fashioned way right. He was an early adopter of a solid core. Golf Ball meant fifteen yards and it meant from him going to thirty eight in the world. Well I in the world okay. Because nobody else had that he had a secret weapon okay. They weren't switch into it. That's what fifteen yards meant to him. It was an improvement of. I think point nine strokes in scoring average means all the difference in the world on across Sorenstam from two thousand one. Two thousand four picked up twenty four yards and she went from being forty forty fifth and distance to I a distance. She improved her scoring average by one point. Four strokes around now this is consistent with more brody's findings if you find twenty yards and Roy is the perfect example. He's twenty hours longer than the average tour player. You'll pick up all things being equal point seven four so let's call it three quarters of a shot shot. There's no quicker way then. To gain distance in there is no quicker way to gain distance than to simply turn more and that's that's what George Teaches And that's what Lucas teaches experiencing that. Yeah ourselves out there or turn turn and and that posture that you were talking about both of us. Sean could have done a great dead lift from his old posture. Actually it was so bad there was right in front of achieve enlightenment. He was hitting you saying hooks on tonight which is not a familiar now. So what you're saying though. Are you seeing where you're saying. Well you just described. Are you seeing it within your game and to what degree as you're trying to get on play more revive competitive career career. Are you seeing it and to what degree. Yeah I I am You know I I would imagine it's unfortunate. I've got pictures of my swing when I was in college Pity over. I'd love to have video of it but I was closer to doing. These things instinctively don't have video at. Ut well apparently not. I mean maybe maybe there's a exists somewhere video of me playing but I just have pictures and I was. I was closer to how I swing. Now are how I'm trying to swing now. But I've spent my entire tour life playing with a restricted hip. Turn Flex my right knee What what the industry like to call a clip it outside my hands in the hands in front of my body which basically means restricted up return arm near being told to do instructed to do absolutely? There has been told to do that. You know I wouldn't have done it Of My own accord. I was being told to do that. Because that's what was on the cover of Golf Digest in the going. Cover Golf magazine. And it was the X.. Factor actor and he was not in our blaming it. And I'm not even I'm not even faulting. The teachers right. They had they had they certainly. They didn't have alarm and they're limited information on their exposal sites right. They were making a judgment based upon ideas that they had read about and they'd sit in a room and formulate in Hogan's five lesson he talks about the knee doesn't move okay. He talks about the right. Knee doesn't move even said at some point that that was his secret. Mind you hogan through around secrets like Confetti at a wedding secrets anymore. Right I could. I could off off the top of my head. I could just give you four. What he called his secrets So so from that. The Harman's got the idea. And I'm I'm guessing because because Bush was an advocate of keeping the flex and the right name. That's why tiger the Flex Wide Greg Norman had the flex and rainy anyway. Hogan Hogan didn't do that. You know he didn't do that. Sam snead didn't do that. None of them did that. None of them is certainly not Ben Hogan I gotTa show this picture to you. I'll show it to you picture much. Gosh I'm going to show it to great podcasts. But you guys are GonNa go. Wow and this'll be in our Our Presentation Lucas. Now going to do this presentation tomorrow right so here is everybody likes to call Lucas Wall too long. Drive specialist for But this is. I'm I've got a picture of Ben Hogan in nineteen forty seven. Jamie said Lau ski at the top of their golf swing now. Jamie said Laos pound for pound longest hitter that I've ever seen okay now. That's Ben Hogan in nineteen forty seven and that's Jamie said Laos kids a side by side view face-on now Ben Hogan has straightened his right leg his trail leg doc. He's brought the left knee in behind the ball. He's lift the left. He'll and the club is halfway down. Forty forty degrees pass parallel. He won on seven times in nineteen forty seven. This is the year that he discovered his secret his secret who many now he looks identical to Jamie said lounge does does okay. Identical was to be one of the pictures that we post tomorrow. But Jamie has the moves. Hey Jamie has the moves. He had them until he got them. Coached them because all all of a sudden he wanted to play golf so he went to another teacher and they they made him start swinging slower so he used to have a perfect twenty one seven tempo and all of a sudden he's got thirty five seven so genitally q-school right now. I think eleven over in the second stage all right but you can see quite clearly that Hogan and Jamie said allow ski now. Neither of them had video. Well I'm sorry Hogan didn't have video Jamie but Jamie didn't have teacher. He came to that intuitively. Just as Hogan did So that's what that's what we WANNA do right study. What the best study who hits it the farthest who hits it two straight US who hits the most precise and then try to come up with the most anatomically precise terms and then train them Lucas this does a great job at Doing a lot of research on how to train these movements and people who master. Let's say a musical nickel instrument They do it very slowly at first and they master it slowly before they pick up the speed and the tempo so there's a definite training process that must be incorporated corporated into I was talking earlier to Chris Cuomo and he was saying well. You know we've gotTA teach average players. You know I said look that's right I get that okay if if you're trying to teach a novice or beginner player and try to have them where they have some competence in the game right. That's a completely different game. You know what that's like a a psychiatrist trying to teach somebody WHO's dealing with a lot of issues to live a normal life. What what I would make an analogy to what Lucas Lucas and trying to do is trying to get good players to play or exceptional players to be extraordinary? Yeah okay it it. It's almost like sports. Psychology is to psychology. It's like I'm trying to help really good players to do exactly what Cameron Jim Colleges did. which was in a blink of an eye? Get better here. You better Well that's why you being here is why I think it's important because a lot of the people at the summit are focused on helping everyone and that's great that's important. Yeah absolutely but at some point they probably take a little bit of a A stance contrarian stance to what you focus on which you know back in two thousand fourteen at the summit at Duke was like this huge talking point and there's a lot of back and forth about like your for what was in your book and the people in the room. What they are getting all riled up about people got mad people got there but people got mad? You weren't there to keep the take took it really. Well the weird thing but like what I'm getting to is that we can't look for Brando Shambley on Air Gulf channel the analysts to be a teacher February. But you can still provide a very important piece of the instruction industry right. I don't I don't claim to be a teacher church. Although there's party that would love to do it. But I'm under no illusion that I could just walk out to be a great teacher. I think it would take a decade. I think there or is it. It's an art to be able to teach You know I saw on the You Know I. I just had this conversation with Chris Cuomo. I've had numerous times times. I get more than a few calls a year from tour players asking me to work with him and in every single time yes and in every single time I will say. I'm not a teacher. I'll talk theory with you. All talk about golf swing. I'll look at your golf swing and tell you guys but if I was you I would go. Oh find like I can recommend a few teachers. You know I can I can tell you some people that you can go sit down and talk with that can probably point you in the right direction. I could sit here talk theory with you all day long and talk about what I would do if I were in your shoes but I'm I'm not I don't even have the time the teach. I mean it's when I ah a couple of players that were sending me videos and asked me to help them and I thought first of all. This is a lot of pressure Shaikh I. I really do want to help you for me to do that. I would have to spend two three three four days really grind and looking at your stuff going out and watching you hit golf balls spending time with you and it's like I've got work to do. I'm busy and I don't I don't have time to do that. You know you're all in again. Great teachers are all in and great teachers I gave I gave Bradley Hughes a lot of credit. Read it on the air last week. 'cause I started diving into watch Brendon Todd and I watched transformation and Bradley Hughes was able to get him out of the full swing. Yip's there and win a golf tournament. Okay now he did it with the exact opposite thoughts as Mark Blackburn gave Chas Levy. I just saw chess review. I was talking about how you hitting so straight. What's going on? He was like well. You know mark got me more. Shut coming down. I was open. I was more shut in the delivery spot so now I can just turn and rotate spiteful. Draw well go to Brandon Todd who is being taught to be more shut in the delivery process right. It's a common thing these days to be more more show and rotate. He couldn't do it. He'd stand up get steep miss it way to the right so Bradley Hughes Taught Him said listen be more open filled cup and also sunny should slam the door to completely different thoughts but they both transformed players now. That's teaching because you can't teach every player the same name the ideas. I'm going to present two more with Lucas. These are these are optimum moos amongst the elite of the elite. Okay that's what they are but to be able to teach you got to be able to teach me. Why does someone shank why someone hit it? Fat while someone hit it then there's incredible nuance to the golf swing You know that's that's Lucas does reliving. That's not what I do for a living. All Right Sean. I think that is a good chance to take a break to tell the people about whoop because today's episode is brought brought to you by whoop. The fitness tracker that is changing the game. Now Sean you got a little bit of a sweet tooth I like to Dabble in the deserts. There's things I love more than post post dinner chocolate chip cookie. But I've learned some things after some weeks now with my whoop and one of those things that just how much and when when you eat and drink it really affects my sleep my recovery this open learning. Hey maybe eat that dinner a little bit earlier in the evening. You know maybe skip that nightcap cocktail tale of got something going on the next morning and I'm just scratching the surface on all these insights sean from my whoop but I can say I'm loving it. I'm getting a lot on a daily basis ACIS and I'm excited that we can share with our listeners. Discount Code to get a band of their own so I want the people to head over to whoop dot com. That's W. H. O. O. P. Dot Com and use the code drop zone that is D. R. O. P. Z. O. N. E. to get the whoop strap three point. Oh for free and get fifteen percent off your membership get involved. Unlock that performance Sean. And start optimizing back to brandon so one of the things. You're touching on. Here's your relationships with players. which obviously gets you a lot of attention but like you're saying earlier? PGA Tour players. Aren't your your audience. That's not who your existing to serve on our side. Michael Bamberger always reminds us of this. Look you're here to serve the audience. You're not here to you know. Make it to her players happy or become best friends with these guys. How do you approach that balance? I look I'd like to think you know if if I if I were around these players. I think we'd be buddies. I think would be friends. I really do I. If Brooks were sitting across from me I think you you know I think we I think we get along fine You know I think Brooks read the headline of of what it was that people love to sensationalize sation lies. I didn't say that he wasn't strong. Mentally that's preposterous if you get on the PGA tour you're strong mentally. You have to you have to two nations as hell. Thousands of thousands People WanNa play the PGA tour thousands if you make it out there. You're tenacious What I said was when asked if he had the strongest mine in the game of golf that I wasn't willing willing to cede that ground to whom yet based on the three major Syed one because I thought that they were on pretty soft golf courses a driving standpoint? They were more about who could lift the most weight than who could work out. Ten moves in advance in a chess game. And I say I'm I'm GonNa wait and see but what got written in was brattle says Brooks Kepco isn't mentally tough and Brooks in the media center said Yeah I got pissed when he I think he said my name maybe did but he was like I got pissed when he said I wasn't mentally tough and I was like well. Whatever floats your boat? I mean if it helps motivate you it seemed to that But that's not that's not quite what I said And then his father got upset at me because both brooks and chase were playing in the New Orleans event. Yeah and and and it's a team event. And they were in the top two or three or a couple back was balling out right. Brooks was Brooks's Brooks. He's phenomenal player and is not chases and a good player but in no way shape or form should another tour player be able to decide who gets on the PGA tour so if they win a team event to what extent dent is that representative of chase's talent and he would be an essence taking a spot from somebody on the PGA tour when he gained that spot at least half as much by the talent of Brooks kept. And it's not just chase. No anybody who's in that spot tour should not allow a tour player to pick a non tour player and if they do pick a non tour player that nor non-tour player you cannot give them PGA tour credentials. It is no no way equitable and immediately. Why is hard? It's not hard career out and he sent me a message saying well. You never say anything about Davis. Love Son drew plan in an all these events and I said well I'm sorry you you've got a completely different issue right. It's like if a sponsor exemption sponsor wants to exempt drew love into to every event good for him and have drew wins. He's entitled to a Tour Card. That is different for team event. Like I'm not I'm not upset. Upset Chase got into the event. I'm upset at the idea that he could gain a full tour exemption if they win a team event so ah that's why he's on twitter. Taking taking poor drew love has taken enough. Heat Heck Wi- well and he's a fabulous guy right lightning rod every sponsor's exemption in Gripe is just goes straight to drew love. How `Bout What we just did our anonymous tour pro survey which? Hopefully you've got a chance to check but I think think one of the questions was. Do you know more about the golf swing than Brandel. I think that the majority said that you know more so there is that because because I know people come at you all the time for whatever reason maybe because you are willing to put your ideas out there more so than other other people in the Gulf media you've occupied this space as well part of his part of his job. Yeah but other people have that job to yeah and don't contract as much attention. This isn't really even a question. It's just a roundabout way of getting into saying you know. Do you have the sense that you are a lightning rod and you're an easy person for people to you know. Pick on as it takes Smith. Yeah I mean I think people are again. I've said this before but the people were very uncomfortable with answering the question as to why something happened. They're very comfortable with you telling them what the score was who won by how much how far for somebody hit it. How many fairways they hit? How many Greens? They hit. People love that they fall in love with that. Well he you know He. Of course he wanted hit fifty two greens and he had one hundred five putts. It's Yup but when you start to tell somebody why somebody hit fifty two Greens and not forty two and not sixty two and why one hundred five parts not a hundred and twenty five like well. Who the hell are you and how do you know it's hard to your out? It's hard to figure out part of it right. It's very hard to figure out. You know what I mean. You know if you want to be good at something you work at it. And it's like I want to know the answers to why I'm not saying they're irrefutable a matter of fact when I talked tomorrow none. None of us are free from contradiction. None of the ideas presented at the seminar are free from contradiction. They can all be contradicted. Every single one of them but contradiction is fun. It's it's like you know if you don't think my numbers right if I'm wrong and you know me. Please tell me I'd like to know. But if you have an idea and opinion to the contrary I'd like to hear that idea like to argue with you know so that is it. I I sit in a spot where I have to answer the question. Why every two three minutes and I think the better you answer the question the more pissed off people get It seems like the more pissed off tour pros get. Yeah and that's not used to. They're used to being treated with kid. GLOVES CBS I think are there any instances that stick out where you said something or took a stance and then regretted it. Yeah I mean of of course the you know the the whole instant tiger woods back in two thousand thirteen. I could have handled that. I think I could magazine it was at the forefront of was was it was I was controversial allies D- And I became the subject of of that. Uh debate more than what was at issue And if I had handled it a better way more tactful way than the issue. She would've been more debate and not me. And that's you know. Look TV is a lot like golf. You make mistakes you make bogeys you get get it right. Sometimes you get it wrong sometimes and you know I've made what I've what I've learned is everybody has a mom or dad or a brother or sister watching them and so so when you were about to say something you know is it right. Is it appropriate. I'll give you an example. There was a spencer. Levin has no. He's a he's a Very talented hot headed sort of sort of irreverent type player and He was Smoking and throwing fits and throwing clubs. Yes and when he was playing and and you know look I sympathize with with temper tantrum on the golf course. I promise you could find video. It doesn't exist. I don't think but if you produce vigil throwing a temper tantrum might go. I've lost my mind playing golf many times. I think it was Bobby Jones. He said L.. Forgive any behavior of a man when he's got a golf club in his okay and it's a great line so I see Spencer doing this and it makes me chuckle right. I think it's funny now. I get it's not the greatest example for kids. Get that but I get how humbling frustrating this game is so I put together a clip of him him losing his mind and then I supported it. I didn't say I didn't condone it said but I understand it you know and it's it's funny. Okay let's not. Let's not look could this in any other way other than the fact that this is a guy trying to solve problems an he can't get the square peg in the hole and so so the next week I was calling live golf at the pebble. Beach now is in line at a coffee shop and lady in front of me. She turns around and she goes. or You brandel. I said Yeah. She goes I'm Spencer Levine's mother and for like a half a second. I thought what I say about this and she goes on. I just WanNa thank you for Defending Spencer. Spencer you know he's he's a he's a hot headed guy but you know he means well and I was like yes I had fun with it. I enjoyed it and then I thought Oh kid I left there and I thought to myself it was like you know. Everybody's got a mother or father brother sister and you know one time I was doing a I was buttoning up a story on Jimmy Ballard and who by the way I have tremendous respect for the work that he's done and the game of Golf Teaching the game of golf and players and his theory is theories are there's a lot of liberty so so he obviously taught up a big shift to the right not much of a turn in the hips at all sort of a squad into the right hip. I had a good friend of mine named Dillard PRUITT. WHO's now a rules official? And if you've never met Dillard he's literally one of the nicest human beings you'll ever meet but he was also one of the straightest hitters. I've ever seen in my my life one time in the morning. A mower strip had been carved out in the middle of the fairway. What is that? Is that eight feet. Why less Fred Wadsworth was in the group? Remember who else anyway. We all diller twenty five bucks that he couldn't hit it in that strip any hidden that stretch. That's how straight dillard hit so I always used to called dillard Iraq and blocker I don't even know why other than the alliteration or the rhyming of it but the Rock and blockers what I used to call him. And because if if you kind of reminded me of Jimmy balanced move you know sort of the sway to the right squad and this way to lift and squat connection and So anyway Jimmy Ballard. Piece appears on our show at the end of it. You know it's like you know. He's one of the Great Rock and blocked teachers. I think that's what I said something to that effect and and you know. He took huge offence to it. And and I thought you know lesson learned you know You can't be flippant you know. You shouldn't be flippant up at. This is his life's work. It meant everything to him. He devoted all of his energy in time. And to have a flippant comments like that so to in any way. Summarize summarize our represent. What he taught was was was wrong to me. So you know you you've taste your words a little longer. But but but yeah I mean you you finish every show and you think I could have said something a little more concise or a little better one of the other tricky things that oftentimes. You're being asked to explain why you're being asked the same questions that we're asking the tour pros but they suck at explaining why I hit. I hit twelve green today. Were they don't why did you strike right. Don't care to know or they don't care to let you know that right here to tell you so that's why you exist for reason. We do need you. I would encourage your audience to To look up an essay written by David Foster Wallace. I don't know if that name Bellio but David Foster Wallace He's he's passed away but He wrote an essay about that very subject. He wrote an essay about Tracy. Austin's autobiography and why athletes are terrible at describing what it is they just did You know he's also written beautiful essays about Roger Federer there I think is maybe the best essay about Federal Evan but he describes what it takes mentally to play a sport. And how that doesn't serve you. Well when you need to be more or introspective and look it up read it and it. You'll you'll go. Oh now I get it now I get why these guys are such great athletes K.. Because their head head is not cluttered with extraneous thoughts. Yeah they really are in the moment they are. They really are thinking about one shot at a time. He wrote an essay about Michael. Joyce who is this you know middling tennis pro. And he described him as staring at the air in front of his face which I always stuck with me so good. That's his friend right. That was one of his friends that was and he was like he came. They became friends. And Yeah I mean he's he Michael Joyce then became a tennis tennis-pro but part of the the gist of the essay was. Here's this guy. WHO's in the top hundred in the world that this one thing and yet he is still so far away from Roger Federer at that thing? That's right so is just getting into the levels which engulf may not exist. Quite as often often I think in golf that two hundred ranked player in the world will beat the number one ranked player in the world. Far More often than in tennis -solutely But you know probably not over the course of a season I guess you just need to stretch it out further but there is a there's a A Beautiful Book written again about that very issue in the last year or two years forgotten. The name of the mathematician wrote the book but in essence. He he did the disparity between the best the average and the worst of every single sport and an every single sport it's twenty and upwards of forty percent between the best and the worst and golf what would you guess it is the best in the average and the best in the worse the between the very best on the PGA tour and the average tour players three percent between the very best and the worst is seven percent. No other sport comes close to being that condemn well and so therein lies the difficulty. If you think that you can predict the winner of a golf tournament you've lost. Yeah your minds tried. And we're every Wednesday night on our live from return like who's going to win and and you know can tell you it's an interesting way to talk about the tournament. That's about to happen but yeah exactly you gotTa do it right. You GotTa say who you guy and I always said because when we first started doing it David Divall and frank. They're they're loath pick loath and we're going to look like idiots hits and I was like listen. You know nobody will remember if you get it wrong right because everybody gets it wrong. Yeah there's one hundred fifty six guys But every now and then you'll get one right and then everybody will remember well this year David Duval he He guessed the first two who while he guessed the first two so he said guests he he gets it right. He said you know what he's as Tiger Woods got that look in his eye us some abstract that tiger one and then We the US Open Brooks I'm sorry PGA Asia and he was like I like Brooks and and damned if he didn't win we got to the US Open like God. Do you know who you pick. -TARIO would pick but but anyway every now and then you get them right and as I told David you know people will remember when you get them right but you know what. I'm getting ready to do a show. All analyze all fifty players in the top fifty in the world. I don't spend that much time on other players outside the top fifty. But I'll spend a lotta time on them and then you try to get the best possible reason present. Somebody's GonNa win You know I mean everybody does it differently but so you know you. You're trying to come up with a very specific reason. Why they're going to win and why somebody else isn't going to win all right last question for me because I know there's probably a glass of red wine with your name on it and Nia clubhouse but I'm wondering what puzzles have your interest right now or what? Maybe it's not the golf swing but people on to you're whether it's Bryce into Shambo and his mind Jordan spieth and what's happened to his his game. Rory mcilroy verse Kapka in the whole evolution. What's peaking your interest right now? Well you as a great question. I love that you know outside of Golf. The political world I love to dive into I read on. I spend far too much time. We are in the south diving into that rabbit hole so I I love studying that But in the golf world you know I'm constantly asking. Oh we'll Jordan spieth comeback. What happened to Jordan speed? So you you you dive into that world and his teacher probably gets upset with us but we we've. We have reached out to camera McCormack. They're not always willing to sort of tell us everything they're working on. So you kind of have to connect the dots on your own. But but it's it's how Phil picked up the yardage and and why. It didn't help him to the extent that that helped cameron to golly right. So how Cameron. Golly picked up the yard How rory can be a better wedge player You know why he struggles with his wedge game You know I look at The ladies tour. I'm still trying to make sense of why show we would have changed her golf swing to the extent that she changed. What happened to Yanni San? What happened to Lydia Ko? Why isn't Nelly Korda Court? Why aren't they dominating will they dominate and should they dominate are they going to dominate? LA's looking closer to dominance than ever. Yeah absolutely only genuine co hits. It's more Greens than she does. And it's like Nelly needs to. She needs figure out how to put you know and if she I mean but again their stats are not quite great enough. So putts per green is not always accurate representation or rarely represent eh representation but You know I I look at a long drive and I and I'm I'm imploring the long drive to have a An accuracy element to it because people dismissed the long drive as FREAKS and not golf and if they had an accuracy element to the long drive life everybody in the world who wants to know who's along straightest driver and if they had a disparity aspect to the long drive you would end up with some really cool move that is different from the longest interest golf channel. And I layer. I'd be I'd be all over that You know I again I I like Trying to trying to dig up. How mullery turned his short game around? So that's why I went. See Richard I what is really curious to me. Is that Kyle. Berkshire one a long drive this year. And Clo- Khloe won the ladies. Long drive they both use the exact same shaft. Okay no difference him exact same shaft. So that's a shaft made It's a patterson shaft and so I saw that. They were both using the same shafts. I wanted to know more about flew out method designer that shaft Because that just seems inconceivable to me And then I got some other shafts and I took them out I picked up eight miles an hour ball. Speed straight away You know I mean you know. That kind of stuff intrigues me. So the distance issue I was talking to the designer of that. I said you know they're going to roll the ball back I think they're going to roll the ball back and because listen if they roll the ball back we will solve those problems in a week. Whatever lost there is we will saw he goes I make a club right now? Conforms to the C.. T. Standards that you can swing ninety five miles an hour. That will hit a ball three hundred yards and I said it goes. It's got a computer chip in it. He goes but he goes. You know it's not just a ball issue. It's a collision issue. Ball Club issue that you have to solve so when anybody says I got to roll the ball back. They're missing the larger issue of IT'S A collision issue. It's about the club and the ball that you have to change in concert so I think the distance issue is going to be a big topic of conversation this year. Because it's GONNA come to a head Martin slumbers set on our set at the open sad as much. Everything he said was tacitly saying we're GonNa Roll the club. Roll the ball back back and you know I know he'll get pushed back on that and a lot on your plate then these are all the puzzles that were yeah and then. There's my own golf game now. I didn't play for EONS. So trying to put my I'm going to q school First Week of December. So yeah so you know I You know I'm testing it pretty much every day it's every Scottsdale. TC Champions Course and you know. That's a tough q-school. They only have like five spots or something so I'm playing the Pebble Beach Invitational Snow Week after next. And then I'm going to Q-school so you know I'm practicing my career off or good luck one next one more for me. Let's go. This is the way to do it. You say of one more than Actually who's the best. PGA Tour player in the world. And how many you know if this was the Oscars how many nominees as would there be. How many people are there that are capable of holding that title? Well this rory tiger There's Brooks And that's that's it right now. There's there's Oh I'm sorry just Thomas would be in that conversation Just to be in that conversation. So there's four and they you know they would be up. This were the Oscars. Those those four would be up and their face on the screen. If Rory's wedge game is sharp this year he look. He's younger than tiger. Tiger's congress forty-three like how. How often are we going to seem like he was at the Zo? I I don't know but I still maintain his rory's probably got the best overall golf swing in the game. I always say tigers is as the Tigers is with everything but the driver tires swings not as good as swing. But I'll tell you you know last week Bermuda was on. Hey and I walk into our our set and I said Look Bermuda's on nobody's GONNA be watching but here's what I want you to. I want you to tape and cut off every single putting stroke of Danny McCarthy k every single one of the I said Canadian tour legends. Don Carthy McCarthy has a cult following in the world of golf for his ability to put everybody in the news and nobody even knows who he is. And I'm like I'm just telling you he's the best powder in the world like Jordan. Spieth had an epic year last year on the Green. Only one person beat him. That was Danny McCarthy Eighty. Who the year? Before was the premier putter on the Korn Ferry. Tories only played a few events so far this year. He's already for second or third and shows game putting and he's got the most beautiful putting stroke and I tried to find it everywhere could on Youtube. You couldn't really find it so you know I'm watching Bermuda just to see his putting stroke and then I look at. It reminds me a Horton Smith putting stroke which is the best putting stroke in the world. Ever it's Sam snead of golf swings putty stroke and then that's putting the best chippers been on so I want them to cut off all bent on shipping. So it's like who who chips like Ben on and then there's Brett Rumford out of the bunker so it's like what is Brett. Do so go try to find the best and figure out what the hell they do. And these are the awards. Yeah I always think Brett Rumford. That's Brett Rumford. You Watch Brett chip you go to his instagram account. You Watch him chip you watch him hit bunker shots and I actually asked rory this I said Did an interview with Roy this year somewhere where we did a clinic and I said you take me through the bag exclude yourself. Who is the best at every individual aspect of the game when we got the bunker play you know I thought he was GonNa say Luke Donald I don't know you know? And because that would have probably been my guess and he goes. Well I'M GONNA go a little off the radar to say Brett Rumford and he is the best bunker player and so I went online started five. It was like Oh yes. He's unbelievably good. And with chipping. He said he liked Phil. Mickelson because Phil keeps it pretty simple But MOLINARI's really turned chipping around thanks to Work with James Richard. So I flew over met with James just to talk to find out. What the Hell you did so you know it's a it's you know? Be somebody else in a month. You know somebody else on and you go try to find out what they did. And you know 'cause I'll have a show to do and I want to share it with our audience and Y'all want to write about it. I love it you know. Well thank you for joining us. Could look at q school. Thanks for everything you do. We love you. Yeah thanks appreciate. And what's the gist. I mean did you did his good shots with the George Jenkinson me was a lot of pressure you to hit off balls. I'm in front of the moly converted to the Church of gas thinkest range session. We working out turn to turn right big turn more tournament everywhere right. How about you? Yeah I mean I got more to work on some hip rotation of got no more cupping of the risks in the back swing of Extension throughout the back swing. There's there's a locked door on ice and it's too bad this podcast because the world can't see your beard. It's the greatest beard and hit if there were a museum grace beard. Maybe there'd a statue of you in the front with that I'm GonNa send my mother right. She needs to lose your new voicemail. I mean the bent grass at Augusta's not cut like that. That's good stuff. Oh Man all right well thank you. Brando enjoyed it all right major. Thanks to Brandel Chamblee. One of the best US analysts engulf perhaps the best analysts engulf you can find him year round providing that analysis for the golf channel next up. I imagine we'll see him at the President's cup down in Australia. That's not too far out from right. Now that's it for the drops on today. We'll be back here next week with another interview. This time with Chris this Komo.

golf Lucas Lucas Dylan Sean Brooks Kepco Brando Shambley Rory mcilroy Tiger Woods Chris Cuomo Hogan Hogan George Sam snead Dustin Johnson Brandon Todd Golf Digest Golly Pinehurst Golf magazine Jordan spieth John Daly Greens
GOLF DISASTERS

Shutdown Fullcast

1:32:24 hr | Last month

GOLF DISASTERS

"The. Welcome. To the shutdown forecast, you are listening to the Internet's only college football podcast. I'm. Spending. Papa. Why is there not another? Papa read numbers to Me Papa like we did in the old country. Four point, one, five, six, nine no here comes. Eight three, four, zero. Oh. y'All. that by the way is not the total. From the first item of business we'd like to cover here on the Internet only college football podcast. This podcast has for a significant amount of time. been a central part of the DSP s charitable harking back to ESPN DOT com the motherland website for many of us here, and also the twitter name that I work under. That extended into banner society and espionage Dot Com but over the all of those sites and communities have added up to. Contribute at this point over a million dollars to charity of our choice that'd be new American pathways. Last week, we asked get a bunch of money. So at the top of the show here I, WanNa say one. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You can extend that for another ninety minutes and it still wouldn't be enough. We managed to take last year's record of one hundred and eighty, seven, thousand dollars or so and. And And blow it. Slightly out of the water each shit last year. No Yeah. Come back last year you were come last year. Come Back Twenty nineteen. Now, you want something good to happen in two, thousand, twenty. It's this yell raised over four, hundred, fifty, thousand dollars. For New American Pathways Refugee Service Organization. We Settlement Agency here in Atlanta Georgia. That number is so big as to not even be comprehensible to my tiny brain however. I do know because we talked to Patti mixing the CEO of American pathways this afternoon one of what all of that record setting total is going to devote itself to. Thanks to that money numeric pathways is to be able to do things they didn't dream of doing. For clients and two, thousand and twenty and beyond. So it's to go toward rent relief because that is a huge crisis in the United States right now for everyone. But especially for refugees who are economically vulnerable and just trying to get the start on their American dream in their first three to six months of employ, it's going to be very hard fixed for them because many of the industries that they work in have been affected by covid nineteen and its economic impact. Thanks that money they'll be able to give them rennaissance keep them in their homes. That's just one of the things that you'll be able to do. With the money that the ESPN s community focused community and beyond managed to raise and. It'll set for next year to. which is great because next year. Oh, it's going to be crazy either way. No matter what happens in the presidential election either way it will provide a serious challenge for refugee organizations and. nonprofits like new American pathways. So thank you for making an impact. Thank you for making a local impact with a global effect. Thanks. All of you I am floored blown away. At CETERA, can we do some congrats? Can we do some? CONGRATS I? Can. We. Can. Congrats to Michigan the money cannon once again congrats as always again, which is what? What did they land at Holly? Boy I closed that spreadsheet it was like sixty grand. It's gotta be at least one, hundred, fifty dollars. Yeah. It's gotta be like ground for the second year in a row for those of you who haven't done the charity ball before. This year ended despite its exponential explosion. Sorry for the alliteration this year ended like at typically does with Michigan Georgia tech out in front, and then above Michigan and Georgia tech there is one mega donor from each of those schools conducting like a wizard's duel that doesn't really have anything to do with the rest of us. props to them for being able to do that. That is. An the top Michigan the top Georgia tech donor won for the second year in a row. It was the it was the Michigan. Fan. For the first few years. Georgia tech has has beaten Michigan single donations. two years in a row now but I gotTa tell you guys something that a lot of people were surprised by she likes to remain anonymous but I feel like our audience would appreciate this reveal the top Michigan man donor is actually a Michigan woman dumped. CONGRATS, Georgia Tech for showing up. Congrats to several SEC schools I feel like showing out better than they usually do can I say? What happened I because this is just from watching is from tracking these donations year after year and watching the messages that role in with them you know Georgia Tech has been a big school for us and the charitable because it's the hometown team for our hometown charity you know as. A someone said last week. Uga Fans don't really like to live where immigrants live with some notable exceptions including the number of people who donated from Georgia, this year this was Georgia's I. Really Really Really Big here in the bowl. anecdotally, what I have watched happen is Georgia Tech Fans have drawn Georgia Tech Fans into this Georgia Tech Fans. Have drawn Georgia fans who have been drawn Alabama fans who have drawn more Tennessee fans who have drawn Kentucky fans. This was the first year that the SEC really rolled in on mass, but I do think we can trace that back to Georgia tech a human centipede of charity it's like A. Competition chain. Or call it or you call it rang called it that sounds fine to that's that's much worse. Yeah. They made a big late run. The Dow will say that this. There has been no comparative results so far. In the big ten until this year Ohio state made a valiant run. This year but. no-one could catch big blue it was. Congrats to slippery rock finished I think twelfth or eleven. Year, the Michigan money can got bored and decided to just try and set up a second money cannon pointed at Slippery Rock Nice Nice because Iraq is lake. Michigan's like backup fandom like, yeah. If you're not aware of this, they have this tradition Michigan Games that has been going on for ages on ages of broadcasting the slippery rock score during games and I watched this happen on twitter as several Michigan fans including our Michigan Super Donor. We're like, okay all we gotTA figure out some way to keep this exciting because we're this far ahead. Let's see how far up in the standings we can push slippery. Congratulations tonight. Him University the University of nine whichever you prefer finished ahead of Harvard. Last but not least congratulations to holly for surviving what I imagine must have been just spreadsheet hell. I called in the Literal Cavalry about Wednesday night last week in tears. And I brought in one of my best friends who is a double degree Virginian and whose career path track has gone. She doesn't listen to this podcast. I can tell you her career path has gone Bain. Hillary Mackenzie. And so I frankly felt like she owed the universe. Literal Cavalry I was hoping that you knew horse who was awesome in Excel. Very good. I called in my favorite Virginia Cavalier who is The. Most evil corporate genius I know because when you really gotta fuck a pivot table, there's you can't do it with the good guys. But anyway this would not have been done without her An extremely expensive basket of baked goods is on my way or is on the way to her house. Yes. Thank you, Darling. Name you on the air. The kindest gift you can give them focused. On this is this is speak to speak well of my enemies as one does GOI. Yeah. No no no. Great. You know who came through hard. Notre Dame. Hey a not not just that we have. Had before including Notre Dame, your Notre Dame Notre Dame y'all showed up huge like showed up huge. niggardly you're all going to have to go home in two weeks. Had never finished the first few years. The Charity Bowl Tennessee was like me and a couple of guys from rocky top talk and this was the first year Tennessee finished ninth, which is by far the best finish. They've ever had a Virginia Tech beat Virginia we should note that's always a battle Washington Italy cracked the top ten and Louisiana Tech cracked the top twenty five thanks mostly to skip our lunatic friend of the program. Choco Taco how hello we love you. AGGIES did well, right. Is this is this oh? Oh, Texas. This year. Oh. I. Must. Did you mention them why? Not that they're rivals Texas beat Texas am by like six thousand bucks, which is unprecedented. Upset from a little upstart like Texas. And pit with seventeenth which I know you'll northwestern the private schools never come through big northwestern was sixteenth this year. Learning. That Texas beat. Texas. Makes me want to invest in renewable energy like I feel like now is the time. Solar is here to stay I. Over Can I. Shout out a few of our of our estimation, a colleagues and former colleagues on the way because one other big thing we had this year this. I don't know if the perception was just that. You know we're a bunch of idiots and who knows what this money is going to or if people just don't like supporting refugees. But in previous years, we have not had a lot of peers in the media show up to donate for this thing like our our friends have not promoted. It our friends at other outlets with the notable exception of the guys Al Dot Com. who come through big every year. And this year we had a, we had golic junior running his own thing. For Notre Dame, we had the Georgia. Tech. Crew like sending out, signed march to everybody who donated we had from estimation. We had the guys it good. Bull hunting the guys at the Champagne Room streaking the lawn got in their buckets fifth quarter got in their. Especially, J. Arnold from Texas am. Made Yeoman's efforts. pod Cat was in their big for us and if I missed you, I'm sorry. But I mentioned and my spreadsheets have been a nightmare, but we had so much support. From our our pals in the non-football. Any idea and Yeah Amanda Mall at the Atlantic. Yeah toward. Amanda might be the only reason Georgia fans woke up at all but like football and not any of us are football media right now. But we had more support from our industry peers this year, which we'd ever have and more donors like by hundreds of individual donors than we've ever had before. Just, an insane effort on everyone's part. So Arkansas Twenty Four. Yes I just saw that no wonder remark on it again, I mean if you WanNa see a ranked Arkansas I know where you can do it this is your last chance. Colorado state and Colorado but in top five miscount Minnesota and Wisconsin had a big dual going there but this was. We didn't even think we were going to beat last year's total. Let alone multiply it and. This is the best possible surprise. We are doing this episode, which is a golf disasters episode, right? Because it was a stretch goal and. Stretch goal was. To twenty two. This was. This was a stretch goal on like Thursday right and then there three days to go. We also just quit doing stretch goals after that day 'cause we did not know when this was going to stop. We just kind of sat there and watched I also feel with golf. You don't WanNA stretch too much. You know that's that's like exercise. This is true stretching for sports you want the natural tension of the body to yeah you ever seen a cheetah stretch annoying needle Cheetah nor a Golfer to equal caliber. Nor Golfer be. I like when people say, Hey, man, you never see a cheetah stretch. Yeah. They live seven years. And they shouldn't run. They can run like nine seconds and yeah, and then they go to sleep John Daly can't do distance but quick bursts. When you hear when you see him, don't you think man that looks like an athlete with speed. Daily is forty yards away from you. It's already too late. It's. That's because you're a John Daly would be and that's not good. Eighty, you have lung cancer, but that says. Jesus colorful pants I like psoriasis of the lungs. They looked at him the wrong way that's out. That was awesome. That was that was very cool. That was great fun and inspiring. Very Fun to watch it was like. Day One. Almost an ominous feeling of like Oh. This is the big one We've awoken. I I was going to ask Jason. This was not the only good thing to happen in the last week. It was really good. But it's not the only good thing. theirself or things first let's break. because. We've gotten a lot done here today just because we mentioned Michigan's adoption of slippery rock. homefield apparel. Your number, one source for incredibly comfortable collegiate apparel fucking nailed it. Possibly at some point soon might be introducing merch that has something to do with a certain college adopted by the University of. Michigan fans. Possibly just like. You can have twenty percents off. Your purchase of. Any junior college not junior guys. Slippery rock is now Yuko in any college that you or your General Fan base have adopted. Twenty. percent off with the Africa forecast at Homefield Apparel Dot Com maybe maybe you wanNA adopt Wofford. Or? APP State. Good luck trying good luck trying to wrangle them. I was GONNA. Say You are you in an apartment because he should adopt the WOFFORD? Because they have the terriers now I don't know if. The mountaineers mascot is one. Allowed out of his house due to being on house arrest. Yosef is going eat at a house and I think if you try to purchase the county in which he resides Yeah. You're GONNA have to root them out of there, but it's GonNa be worth it adoption just the form of arrest if you think about it. I love that Yosef always looks like he's about three seconds away from going ATF's here we. GotTa skedaddle. Meanwhile the offer tears just like my eyes so far the side of my head. Let's see you could adopt a big rig from W K you HOMEFIELD APPAREL DOT com. you'd have that thing in your house. You know like some some some municipalities have regulations of what kind of animals you can and can't have. There is no law against. Big Red. You can't regulate that thing. You can do what you can do many of us have done and adopt Indiana as one of your teams. How did we get here? How did we get to the point where I had to watch Indiana player? I, know I know. I had to watch Indiana lose to Tennessee. In a bowl game and it made me sad. Hey, it's not like I thought that was gonNA happen either don't yell at me. You could adopt the Akron zips who would not want to adopt a kanger they that will hurt your credit just say you know take can lose notoriously numerous. Those okay. You know those t shirts that you can get in myrtle beach that have like a bikini body or a Tuxedo on them. I want one of those Akron shirts, but it's just the shape of Terry Bowden. We can probably get that made. At Home Field Apparel Dot Com twenty percent off your Terry. Bowden. Body. Shirt with the offer code full cast this. Guy would like him to be clothed. Thank you. Okay. I see. So He's just wearing an ill fitting. I really just wanted. You know he had that that period for a while where he was he real ready and he was coaching at a school where in the right lights that blue can show up purple and he just had a real violet Bo regard vibe going for a while and I dug that. What if it is a shirt of Terry Bowden's body wearing a Terry Bowden body shirt. Oh. Wow. Anytime anyone looks at it. Their mind scrambles. This is how homefield apparel cracks like the Tokyo fashion scene. HOMEFIELD APPAREL DOT com the most fashionable brand on earth and looking at it as the same as drugs. Damn. That's legally true now because you said it under the Spencer, bring us last piece of focused business. Last piece This week we launched a newsletter that you know you might want to subscribe to that would be We launched it because we have four people the moon crew that would be Jason Kirk. Alex Kirschner Richard Johnson and myself. Now those are good reasons. The excellent reasons wouldn't you want to read. That we write both about college football and beyond wouldn't you want to see in your inbox you have a new email from moon crew. Yeah Spencer asking if we want an email. That, and also who wouldn't want an email from specifies the only email. You'll ever get from spencer listener I can guarantee that, but it's probably very costly right? No No. For the low low price of zero dollars. That's why we call it moon crew because there's two zero to spill moon. Sure, we can retrofit that reason sure. Let's go moon. Have you guys got merged with Frank Beamer in the double zero thumbs up going into overtime yet we're going to hire frank beamer just so we can do this moon crewe dot sub stack dot com free to subscribe if you would like to donate their is a Co. Fi co hyphen. Fi-. Figure it out. It's linked all over that thing. It's very easy to find we plan to publish. At, least two newsletters a week If Alex really catches catch the blog and spirit, it might be seven. You never know but we're we're to shoot for at least two. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA, play it casual keep it cool. We're under the assumption there will be no college football this season we're really gonNA try and pace ourselves but we We we like blogging. So we wanted to make sure we have placed blog. Now we got play log. That's true. You know what? Jason I'm just GonNa make little editorial decision here on the air we're going to have a little meeting. Can I write something? Can I write something about Holy Moly? Can I just read something about how Awesome Holy Moly is? Yeah, what does that? Doesn't matter. You said yes. So it's. Television program you may actually appreciate. Okay I know that sounds holy. So. It's true. It's in the Bible that's why they call it holy moly. So this TV shows in the Bible yes it's in the Bible. I mean, Zeki we'll see some shit reads like a TV show. Well, listen if you read the book of Ezekiel, you will see something that I can twist into a definite prophecy foretelling the arrival of Holy Moley Holy Moly is kind of leg across between MSCE or any Japanese game show and extreme PUTT PUTT. So imagine imagine a series of very theatrical huge Putt. PUTT holes. Shot through with obstacles and insane things you have to do people are the balls. Are Moon Crewe dot sub stack without right at all people are the ball. People are the balls we will clarify that in. A newsletter and Within the next two weeks or so. Yeah. People are the balls. Anyway it's a wonderful show. Scott if you're a college football fan listening to this and why would you do that Joe Tour is the host. I. Love Joe t because he reached the peak of broadcasting by holding the Friday night, Espn, college, Football Gig, turning it into a nonstop fountain of Unpredictable Chaos. Every single week then got the Monday night football gig. I mean I guess. Prestige gig whatever right Monday night. Biggest GIG and football. After. That ended. He's like you know what I'm GonNa do I'm hanging out with Rob Riggle and I'm going to laugh at people falling off of obstacles and honestly it's my new career path. It's my dream. Oh happy and I'm just thrilled for him after he was cruelly taken from us and stuck on Monday nights I. Am so glad to see him thrive thing. He's happy. He's happy because people are the Bulls people are. Is Rob Riggle doing stunt work or is he like pointing and laughing at these folks? He is definitely pointing and laughing my favorite running gag on the show involving Rob Riggle is whenever any of the contestants fall off. Of the obstacles and into the water or onto the pads He Goes Oh God. Oh God well, she's dead. R.I.P. All Right P. Oh God she was so young. Twenty fifteen or something and you're like. You should watch the show Rob Riggle on it. I'm like Oh. That's not cool right now I'm like that sounds like just the jolt of wholesome energy I, need in My I. Give me the Rob Riggle let me tell. Rob Riggle content right. Let me tell you the wriggle test the tour connection Thrill TV magic. I'm not even lying not even be an a dick. It's real TV magic. Yeah let's go. Let's do it. Yeah. Let's go something else. You can get by subscribing to moon crew that's upstate. Dot Com. Also speaking of This sports sort of sounded like Gulf. Gulf gone wrong. It sounded like golf gone wrong which I will tell you for ninety eight percent of the people who ever pick up golf club. There is no difference between Gulf gone wrong and Gulf none. The same thing the stretch goal for this episode that we mentioned the the the charitable. Was? Agreed. Agreed to do to host a golf. Gulf podcast yet the simplest thing to do the simplest way to fit that within the brand of the podcast. Spencer currently hosts to golf disasters episode. So we sent out a call and. Folks Golf is hard. That's. Way. For me. We've learned to night two things tonight. People are balls and. And Golf his heart. That's what we've learnt. Well, I, think I have explained to each of you in some format. My theory that golf is the cruellest sport. I haven't heard this. I don't think. So. Most sports have a an end limit of some sort that has nothing to do with how good you are like. Tennis matches played until a certain number of games and sets. Been One. Mo Sports, have the fourth dimension of time to write football basketball. These are just Time Bay sports baseball's like kind of in the middle there but even there like it has definitive like, okay we're going to get through twenty seven ounce, and then in theory, the game will be over. Golf. And my point is if you're bad those sports, it doesn't really change how long you have to do them in some cases it actually sort of speeds it up. If you suck at tennis man tennis is over real quick you can done with that Shit and twenty seven minutes no problem. If you're bad at golf. It just gets longer. You just have to do more of it. Like. That's that's the insane part to me because, yeah, you have to get through eighteen holes. But golf doesn't care like. Whether you're taking. Five strokes, ten strokes, twelve strokes whatever. Golf will just say, no, eat more of this because you're you're bad this. must eat more it how Scottish it's. Rock golf is. That tells you you have to smoke the whole carton of cigarettes. The whole car like the idea behind golf that if one is excellent at it, there will be less of it. You that's and that's the incentive to get good at golf so that you don't have to play as much golf. You could in theory. Never get off a golf course. That's correct under the rules of the game you could die there. It is. So it is David it is the David Hume. Sport, because you said the magic words death in go off. Did. Yeah I did because. because. David Hume said, you know what? You only assume the sun's coming up. and. Golfer Yuli assume you're going to go to the next hole that. That's not guaranteed not at all. before we dive into, I think mostly reader submissions can I share with you the first record of? In America. Yes please. Yeah. It's December. Sixteen fifty and we are in Fort. Orange New Netherland, which is basically what where Albany is now. So we're in. Albany in December. And some Dutchmen. Go to a tavern after a game of golf and they I don't exactly the records are unclear as how many Dutchmen there are. But what is known as this? There was a bet on the Gulf. And involved the winner getting brandy from the losers. Now, there is a kerfuffle. At the tavern because the winter accuses the tavern owners wife basically of shorting him drinks of like she has written down in chalk how many drinks he is owed, and she erases them as she hands the drinks out and he says, Hey. You've erased. Erin tely. Drinks that I'm supposed to get. This leads to fight between one of the golfers and the tavern owner and the other golfers join in. The tavern owner and one of the golfers but not the one who started the fight end up killing each other over the accusations. But he but here's the good news they manage to apologize to one another before they die. Golf, the gentleman's came nine years later, the government of Fort Orange bands playing golf in the streets because these are their words it causes great damage to the windows of the houses. It exposes people to the danger of being wounded and it is contrary to the freedom of the public streets. So if you were to go back to sixteen fifty, seven, Albany, you would see a bunch of Dutch Dutch assholes playing golf in the street. And possibly talking about, Hey, remember that golf match that got so heated. A guy killed a tavern owner and vice versa, but don't worry they. Both said they were sorry. Just. Fast and furious one when they're like Oh shit, the cops are coming. We're going. Golfer. Pink slips until the Copperfield. This is this is the first. This is the first record. Of Golf. In the continental United States is. A double murder and people just playing golf in the middle of the street and hitting windows and passers. Office way. MORE INTERESTING THAN I. This is at least the second time golf was banned. My people bear the the moral burden of having invented it, and it is quite possible that some of my direct ancestors influenced the early Golf Universe Fife in Scotland Saint Andrews That is where half of my family comes from and the name Kirk suggests somewhere near a church So yeah, it's it's quite possible that I bear the soon of golf but James the second king around the time band golf because it was taking away from archery practice. This was also the same king when he was ten years old was part of the event that has inspired the red wedding and game of thrones so. Very Very. Survived it. So so you know what? Good for him, whatever role? We won't we want to say too much I'm sure it may choice I'm I'm proud of Jimmy Times Jimmy do times made it. A hell of an internship. He was ten at the time. That means he definitely did that shit a ten year old a ten year old and his era. Like a forty year old now. It's like listen I'm going to die at age thirteen just let me have this needs to give me a knife. Let me stab somebody I hate please. Put that putter down. Exactly Yeah it's our time you. WanNa, kill me you do it like a man with a bow. Yeah. Big Old Nerd I. DO think there was a missed opportunity to just train scotsman to go to war with golf just hit golf balls that their enemies. Retract. Yeah. Pretty sure like when the when the Vikings invaded like that was the entire plan. You know. Do any of us have personal Gulf stories by chance. Spencer you've been to the Waste Management Open. If you have been by the way closest comparison to the ugliest world's largest cocktail parties I've been to is Waste Management Open. That's it's just an. It's just glorious colorful fragrant. Activity. Debauchery. Entire thing. If you've never if you've ever wanted to go to receive the name yeah. No, it is certain Oleg. That's the deal you're like Yep. This is the Waste Management Open. If you've ever wanted to follow around the worst examples of toxic toxic masculinity who are all trailing tiny rickie fowler in his Oklahoma state hat and yelling. Big Dick Warrior After every drive. Go ahead I feel you're like, they're not gonna say that again rickie fowler like does a gentle supple chip shot out of the rough? Trails ever so gently and precisely to within three inches of the hole, putting him in position to save par on a hole where he might double bogey and then out of the silence someone in a barstool shirt goes. that. That's the waste management and then Ryan locked he gets his wings and the. Ryan lockdown. Let Ryan lucky in the skies. No No, you just made them more powerful. Do. You know how stupid is up of the Earth Isn't that oxygen? He skills that might actually owner that make it worse? Yeah. No. No, it's amazing that he's been good in the water without Gills. Breathing regularly for most of his life. Just, realized he's like a reverse the abyss. Brings his brains, a toad stool. You just put in a dark anaerobic space overnight and it's fine. It actually get stronger. I. Only wrap this up because I know how much you loved. Mary. Elizabeth Master Antonio I do it's true and in Harris. No? Brian please don't bring this up again. Don't. Special thing I have. So. Yeah. My I've been to the Waste Management Open, but I was raised on golf and have a very torn intense relationship with it in that I don't like it unlike playing it find a watch now like especially as especially as a Methadone sport in in the age of covert Gulfs fine I'll watch golf any day like sure. You know it's also like a really hard sport to broadcast and now like. My broadcast nerd I kind of takes over when I watched this, and I'm like Oh man you guys are doing really amazing work. Because, do you know how you cover a golf tournament? Have you ever been to one media member? You sit in the media center and watch the TV and occasionally walkout and and trail somebody because otherwise you have no idea what's going on because like thirty six, forty different people are all wandering the course different things all at once it's it's impossible if you wonder why the literature. Before like nineteen seventy. So there are only three golfers. That's because the only people you could follow around. I guess that guys. Okay. Yeah, that's what I heard. Heard. He was good. So, gulps fine but I grew up playing golf and I will tell you as a non athlete with zero talent. athletically. Nothing's more embarrassing growing up playing golf nothing is horrible. I really won't play. Basketball. Right. Ryan I won't you. Know you've you've. You've made it very clear that even if we left you alone with no cameras and nobody watching. With a basketball on a hope for hours, you would never touch the basketball no, because somebody might be watching. You'd say, Oh, nobody's watching and I'd be like bullshit and then God descends and be like oh That's a trash jumper son God's watching and he's like God did I make you with short legs on? Me Off I. Made you in my own image God I hate myself. My own image income I tour. So I was just freakishly Long Yeah God you know touch whatsoever. That is that is Gulf is worse. Shaped like a fire hydrant. Golf. For somebody who has no innate motor coordination or skill is embarrassing doesn't describe his because Ryan. You said Oh yeah you know like Gulf, there's really you might never make it off some of us have experienced this firsthand. Some of us when when we attempted to T- off as I did in Gulf camp, please imagine what the hell. No it was like that Hong. How! How how old are you can't? Let me talk to Golf Cam sponsor. Golf Cab Golf Kemp Spencer is. Naive and yet already broken. Eleven years old. Oh No, that's. So they just how many kids are golf camp. there are about fifteen fifteen and you play groups of light. So you plan like four kids alone, right and. There is so much bullying. Oh yeah and I up for my I drive and the tour, pro. Spencer. Where was this what this was? This was in Franklin Tennessee Oh. Oh, no We're this is like right now this is the Batman Origin Story. This is golf camp with expectations parents. Yes. Yes. Including the tail end of my fathers that I'd I'd done a really good job of killing. Dictation Angie. Strangle. This right destroying every day with my very person and being this moment that we're watching when your dad is like. This. If This or nothing like onto the next son, right? It's kind of like like at that point. At, that point in my relationship with my family I am at that point, the useless animal zoo who was acquired with another animal and who is then put like I dunno, it's Allama what does it do? It's just llamas. All the kids go to see the panda. We don't know what to do this thing. It's just weird it. Cool. Yeah I'm the hornbill, the hornbill who like hey. I'm a bird that eats meat. It was like. That now that's cool. That's a dinosaur. You see it's wake's. It's way cooler sounding in theory until you go hit kids that's a bird that meet and they're like, let's go look at something else. So I, go to golf camp and it off. and. My first tee shot. When I lineup and I've never been able to hit woods. The one thing I can do is Putt like if you want to know where the one thing that stuck is going to mini golf when I was like nineteen in college and just destroying the course and going to do that it was like putting is the rule of golf. Yeah. You just have to have a good attitude, right? That makes a lot more sense. Now, it does make a lot more sense you have to, and you have to like have absolutely no fear failure which having failed at the rest of Golf I had no fear of putting. Because Nascar you this is trash. This sucks I can do this part. This is hard guy you're never going to with. No you're never gonNA live on a Putt right also, you're never gonNa to have like the expectations well all right. You'll probably never with on a PUTT. So when I'm sure look like a practice, it looks like a practice shirt. It's more likely that you can play it off. Do it enough times in a row. Diligent. I will save the story of how bad I am at golf from my turn. Right. So I lined up and the first thing I do is I top ball off and it doesn't even get past the ladies teeth by topping it off i. mean you hit it with the bottom half centimeter of the club And then send it going. Talk Talk. In front of these three kids who immediately or like. Any eleven year old knows this. There's a moment around your fellow kids when you fail at something and everyone looks at you and goes you're the one who dies on the island i. Right, and that's what they're all violent new Diane Gulf Island Peggy Spencer Right that that sounds like you just did an onside kick. Did. which would be cutting in another sport. That's really I really should have thought about all is when you do an onside kick, you do indeed get to retain possession of the ball. Terrific. It's an game. Ten. Now I did not. Walk the fifteen feet forward to take my second shot. Why not because well, because I was I and I broke the seal and was immediately like a the kid we're going to kill and eat. And Yet the second kid I was with. Lined. Up. took his shot. And he was a bigger kid look taller kit. One of those early bloomers who was already kind of like probably fifteen or sixteen. Right, probably needed to shave. Huge I was like a kid's GONNA crush it. He'll probably hit it through the air like it's a miracle when a kid hits it through the air. Much. Less with any accuracy and he he. He went back. And hit the hardest Shank I've ever seen in my life. Flew about thirty feet out and about twenty feet up hit an oak tree. And it made like the cartoon like noise like. Yeah Bounce back and hit one of the other kids in the both pierce. and. and. Though I had see nothing to me is funnier than sports play badly and of the sports being played badly in the universe. The only thing funnier than baseball played badly golf played terribly I've never been able to stop laughing at it. I've never ever not been able to crack up. It's a problem when you see a pro do this because I've seen pros do this and I've been on the course when pros table shot and if it's bad enough, I bust out laughing like a Dick like some guy who made three million dollars to be thirtieth in every tournament hits a Shank, and I lose it like I am watching my dad. Right every time and they'd like the Golfer will look at you like fucks up man. You're a complete loser and I'm like, but I didn't do that. Yeah the you were here to entertain me. I mean, this is what you get paid the money for you can say three billion dollars and you get free golf pants for life and I get to laugh at you and we're going to have to be okay with that contract whenever somebody says, what do you mean sports bring people together just tell them that story yeah. The best part about the kid Changqing a ball so hard that it flew. Immediately back and hit another kid in the balls is that the third kid was immediately the one owned not me topped off like seconds earlier and hit a ball fifteen feet. Now, this idiot who shanked ball forty five degrees in the wrong direction and destroyed this other kids testicles and injured him no the WHO got hit in the balls who was the best Golfer of the three of us by the way. That was the guy. Good. Take him out. He. was strongly strategically. That's a strong move. Yeah Spencer. Think He. He did this as a favor to you. Know. What if he did then I really owe him I really did because I just disappear for the rest of the day. The other. Tracks in the golf course that's where the nurse had. You saw. On that other kids net sack. by the way, a golf can't never remember finishing with the force them. I got to go so bad that just left. So I was just like kicking my ball along eventually rolled up to the clubhouse. When are you bailing? The fourth hole. walking after the fourth or fifth hole go. All right. That's a pretty good effort. The real lesson here is that. You shouldn't pay for your kids to do things. They don't WanNa do no. Don't. It's not worth it. They'll hate it. All the memories will be bad. Don't just be blank space in life. You can do that by just keeping them home do nothing or clean. I that's my. That's my goal. Sorry. I was not raised as a golfer we from very much a football basketball household. Also, we couldn't afford golf but in high school I happened upon rich friends including several who lived like around a golf course and. We would mainly use it for really stupid shit like like midnight paintball or like Oh all our girlfriends are coming to egg this house while we're GonNa ask them you know just like stupid like prank stuff. but one day we went out to like, okay we're GONNA. We're GONNA. Play Golf for. Real. And I remember we got kicked out because we refuse to wear Polo. Shirts. Are. Principles would not be compromised for for golf and that was it. I was in my golf career. Why does golf may make like why? Its first safety I think. The helmet in any other sport like you don't WanNa get. You don't want to get in on neck. Yeah, and you don't WanNa. You know if if someone launches a ball and it bounces often you don't want to catch it in the. In the jugular share it. Allows balls to be stored rolled down in the collar. Yeah if you're doing some sort of a some sort of a trick play, you know you went outside to be able to them in their pockets sure and then you can dial office or style thrilling opening. For intimidation if Will. Or you know if you're a baseball pitcher, you know if you're like you're reaching back there for the ball with a little bit of magic on it, and this is the one. That's got the extra the extra English flying through the sort of navigating trees. It's A homing beacon. Because it's real good next wet on it. I think it's actually a Scottish thing to let you know that you're a that. You're not an orange men. They like the Dutch cameras. It's true. Yeah because they've got a big fucking frilly like they look like walking sunflowers. It'd be. Loud humble. Scott. But a humble Scott with your tiny caller. You can see the sun behind me. That's what it is. It's just to demonstrate that you are alone Not, obscuring like five other other. Gulf warriors you're not one of those round heads. Are you know? No, no 'cause around head can't fit head through that color. See See especially, this might be your best accent. Thank you I'm going to never do it again. I. Had One hundred percent on this I'm just going back office all this really tells me is that he's watched he's just watched a Lotta duct tales. That's all I know. Yeah that's it. No, that's if you were. Listening, the new ducktail slaps gut tells is great. The new ducktail is unreal. I will say this it's unreasonably good. I was like I did not. I was not prepared to go this much emotion in an afternoon and also be entertained by children's cartoon like they did some smart shit by doing things like retaining the theme song and whatnot but also. The writing is just terrific. It's very, very much a product of like this this century in this time the they in case I didn't know I wasn't already in trouble they put lyrics to the moon theme and make it a part of the Lore of Huey and Dewey and Louise Mother coming back from the moon where she's been lost and imprisoned for ten years. while. They became little ducklings. It's heartbreaking man breaking. Holly do you ever go golf story? Not I have a golf adjacent story I I grew up in a Golf. Forward household of which I was not really a participant My father is an Avid Golfer and belongs to the local country club. My home town is very small so. You've got to put a heavy hillbilly spin on this when you think of Country Club as such. There was an annual tournament that was always staged a to coincide with the year's first Tennessee football game. At which the prize handed out for the lowest net one day score was a taxidermied Armadillo in somewhat poor state of repair. What does that mean like? I know if I were to buy a book and it was listed as somewhat poor that would mean like the bindings a little afraid and it doesn't have a cover. Does that mean for taxidermy Armadillo Yeah? It's a little it's a little rickety. It's it's got I didn't know. Armadillos had had whiskers but the whiskers are are falling out in patches as though the Armadillo has developed mange also at some point over the years the Armadillo you whoever went home with the Armadillo was required to keep it in their home for the subsequent year and then bring it back. For the next winter and at some point, one of its previous owners had given it a pedicure. And by the time, came to, my father had also acquired. A little infant. Ut Jersey. On it I didn't realize until he brought it home as a child because here's the other thing. They're not native to Tennessee. I was GONNA say there now they were not there when I was a child, they have since migrated. up from Florida but I, you know, I, had seen them by the side of the road in Florida every once in a while but. I. Didn't know that's what an Armadillo was there terrify. They're absolutely terrifying and so my mother brought it home and was like absolutely not. And so my father. In. Some sort of compromise banished it to the downstairs bathroom. And would bring it out for holidays like he would dress it up a little Santa Hat. I. Doubt American Girl Doll. Sure. Yeah. He would. He would bring it out for holidays and dressed in themed outfits. And that is really the only. The only vaguely horrifying off story I. Have I am so this is constant. She's a World War One. armadillo. My Dad tried with me a couple of times he tried with both of us I am so bad at golf. It is beyond it goes beyond funny and it gets to where other people around me or just embarrassed for me. and. This is an bowling bowling. Same thing. So my dad immediately gave up and put me on the swim team and that was that was a much better. Much, better fit for me. So I. as an adult I do enjoy a little top golf because the point is not to golf. The point is to eat potato skins. And drink. Lots and lots and lots of wealth botka. Under, on it. and. If I have to play golf along with Hey Spencer, you've been to talk golf with me. I can almost hit the ball in the direction that everybody else's are going potatoes and vodka under an awning. Is Most people have to like root for old miss to get better. Top Golf. I was dragged to top golf kicking and screaming by one of our CO hosts. And found that I enjoyed the experience very much because it's like applebee's but you don't have to stay at your table. Have always wanted to free range. But. Also, they have wi fi listen we we work from home y'all. Are. Few. At the question this is inspired me to ask what do you think would be the most difficult animal to do taxidermy upon Armie. Reminds. Jellyfish because I'll I'll say this I have begun stumbling into taxidermy Internet to. Think why? Oh I thought you meant like outside of the show. Tuesday just looking to fill the time. I'm unemployed. So looking to take up some hobbies offer the accident has to be fairly on the easy side because it's got a shell, right? Yes. What I'm what I'm gathering is that tough animals are that's like your rookie rookie level. So like if you're getting botched Armadillo, someone is really terrible attack felt. Like. This was an amateur job I do believe I would I would assume it would be something with a complex coat or. something. That were textures. Greyhound like something with really delicate skin but something the skin itself can be delicate but I'm GonNa assume something had you know fixtures something with horns has to be hard because you know you gotta make the edges match and they have to match naturally cause a horn is a living thing it's not necessarily this like totally dead thing it anchors into Lake live skin it's gotta be hard I will tell you this if you wanNA. See what bad taxidermy looks like. Go look at photos of the old. Beijing Natural History Museum I went there and all my God it's screamingly funny. They had two things in that museum corpses in Formaldehyde that were very poorly preserved and when in leaky tubs, of Formaldehyde, and they had terrifying bad taxidermy like a Bob cat that look like we had surprised it in its in its emergence from the afterlife as an dead Bob Cat like. Sleeping with my wife Yeah. Exactly. The cat's like hack. Now what are you? I'm here to report back from the taxidermy forums. Rabbits are very high in the list other very, they're very delicate also. So any mistake is gonNA take up like ten percent of the animal rights okay I could. Lots of rabbit complaints lots of squirrels squirrels gonNA. Say all also doves. ooh. Yeah. Feathers. Feathers have to be difficult period, right? Yeah I would say so So you're going to want to start with a rhinoceros for your beginner taxidermy. Good good. Komodo dragon maybe just the kind of thing. They love for you to Trophy Hunt and kill to practice on if you find one, don't go kill it if you find. Someone has hit a car. Federal gotTa deal on a Rhino the other day down in Naples, let's let you on it. Is it time to read reads read some tweets can we do? Can we do one bit of Promo I because I would I would feel bad if we did our whole Gulf Gulf a disastrous episode and we didn't do a little light promotion for the shotgun start which our friend. Brennan. Porath. Co.. An actual. In actual golf podcasts. Delightful Golf podcast. You've just heard my the extent of my experience with Golf I. Love this show. It is the integrity of my golf media consumption. Yeah I. There is no golf media any attention to this podcast? you can find it where podcasters assault and Brennan is great on it, and so is calling Sandy Johnson. And they have seemingly acquired our technical problems. So if you really WANNA like if you're like Ooh I'm worried that another podcast Might like not have host who forgot to record or. Things just disconnect in the middle the shotgun start is for you it will become hurting. I would like to plug one more piece of golf media while we're here for no other reason than I like them the Golfers Journal, which is a print only magazine I have had I have written it before this very Armadillo and the events that followed it being brought into our home. I believe Spencer don't you have an upcoming story with them as well I do I do about my favorite imaginary offer, my pieces, an issue number seven, which I think you can still order it came out last February but it's it is a golf magazine that I enjoy reading because most of the people in it. Are Not. Mostly writing about golf. Sorry. That sounded insulting. No, no I got. This is in the way they're definitely speaking to the forecast reader there. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I feel like those of you who are actual golf enthusiasts on this show, you don't need to be a golf enthusiast four shotgun start you do for Golfers, Journal? But I recommend it anyway. I I would like to by the way we did ask everybody to submit the Gulf disaster. We have both picked and allocated a couple of these as needed to share I. Think we've managed to stay on brand. With a of these in terms of you know. We're talking about for instance. I would like to start with a bang start with the Bengal y'all can start with a big like Bryson December five, hundred yard drive. No way of stopping you cough is quiet God. Yeah everything starts with the big. Bang. Including Gulf. That's right. And expanding universe like bryson dish ambos traps. Golfer. Collapsed on. Select. Heating and then you have the the big shrink don't you? Like rice dish by the way, it's going to end up being your friend who's into every fad right like. Cross fit powerlifting dude. Now it's Yoga. Yeah. On runner now Bryson like the universe intends to live for billions of years. Until I'm one, hundred and eighty. Taking like twenty eight liver pills a day spicing liver, the left side of my body's doing Kito. Once again Florida state fans you say never talk about you or your lives. It's all about muscle confusion. Confusing me sped Oregon. Confusion. This is from this this is from golf adjacent Tulsa legend himself donkey perkins friend of the. program. Avid Golfer himself. Says his playing partner in a charity scrambled gut loaded on the course proceeded to ramp the golf cart off the eighteenth green into the parking lot crashing into a car. He got a D. U. I.. Tulsa. What did you do I? GotTa. Do you on a golf cart total suit what the fuck you WanNa. Talk about. Was it Oregon. State we're back in the former cup days. There was a dui in a golf cart that occurred in the same offseason as both a drunken boating arrest and an arrest for stealing a sheep that was being used in the study on homosexuality sheep Oregon State or. Just checking pay man. He got a Golf Cart Dui for charity. The best part is like. The sheriff showed up and he's like, I. Get to do this. Of all the stupid you is I'm going to write this one's GonNa be the sweetest because. Turns out the nineteenth hole his jail. Wow. Oh. Is that why there's one on every golf course I've never gotten that far. It's just like the Eagles Stadium. They're going. To jail in there if you get in trouble in the seventeenth hole, they bury you. Do you WANNA know. Cowboys Stadium Remember. We saw it. By the way at the waste management opened, you could get arrested. One great way to get arrested. is to jump into the water hazard on a dare. For Two thousand dollars, I feel like whatever happens to you next we'll be punishment enough. Someone did it and they were pulled out by security and. I will tell you being pulled out of a water water hazard in front of thousands, of hooting. People. For to grant. For a bail and ultimately legal costs that are probably gonNa run you about three grant. Put you about a thousand under par on the day in the bad way. Okay I was GONNA ASK That's off job. That's my. That's my first one. Because I figured you really couldn't get more of a start to the kind of Golfer that we were likely to encounter here. Then getting a Dui at a charity Golf Tournament. can I do a lightning round? I found. I found a really strong theme here in order from. Robbie Kalland Bo Spooky Deval K., K. Bo steagall, and Imprimis Double Zero Ngo vanhoose what a crew. First junior tournament I ever played in I was thirteen and still quite bad. There was a three over water six consecutive shots in the water. To take a top. Walked off the course, just filling the lake with content. Next. I've broke to van Windows in one JV, golf tournament same whole two different vans it's called. Accuracy or is that precision? I can't remember we. Add top golf. This would be very useful skill. Yes. Yeah. It's not accuracy, but it is precision. That's that's what it is. I lost eleven balls on nine holes once six in one pond. All these little all these Little Tin Cup's out there who are like, no driver shuttle layup no driver. Going over that water, I will conquer nature. Do you decline no decline. Term Amou-. Team of my group is bad decisions that continue compounded interest. Compound interest the most powerful force in the I'm directly responsible for my grandfather's country club having a rule against anyone without license to drive the golf cart. Anyone without. In one day, I was eight I wrecked three different carts before the tentpole. Okay I'm just GonNa say on the adults that's not after the second wreck. Why are you still driving? This is on the GROWNUPS. They they figured like well. Like who can actually I? Think this is a situation where like if you're playing grand theft auto in the cars already on fire to get out of it because it's about to explode whereas boast steagall is like things got one more hole in it. How drunk were the adults though that they're like, yeah. Let the kid drive. Things, but there's no tele what I'm going. Do it. From Improv my uncle hit the same guy twice in. that. Accuracy versus precision. And finally, from Jovan Vanhoose, my neighbor involve. At a harmless two dollars skins game ended up playing for one thousand, twenty, eight dollars the last. And lost. Our. I was making fourteen dollars an hour. He was like this. Is it man? This is my fucking money. I. Get my own. and. I'm fifteen I'm going to retire. Oh God now I'm in debt ninety. One shot man. A skins game real money yeah. Is a grant. What is the intermediate step between two dollar skins and a thousand dollars in one thousand, twenty, eight dollars hit the fast forward button a little I don't know I blacked out. It was wild out there. It was crazy. It was wild golf out there. I. Mean what two dollars a person? The sport of kings because this is how wars get started. Sure. I mean. They're all fucked up on golf. That somebody somebody threw some multipliers in here. Right because. This is how you end up at the Big Table because whole nine somebody was like, let's make things interesting. The guy's like. Oh God. This is my chance. He's out there playing Michael Jordan. About the signifier of hearing, IT TURNS OUT IN THE STORY AS A. As a signifier that what happened is your own fault and you are lighting I would put ended up in there with that same linguistic family. Ended up. I can tell you that the sounds like someone who was like double or nothing again again to the tenth power is one, thousand, twenty four. So that's close. With with a little little interest little. Get Interested in doing if you're doing mental math in your head and you've been drinking out of plastic cups I'll afternoon. That's maybe a one twenty eight. Zero one point I did this grant. It was Charles Barkley based on that. Kind of. Your Charles Berkeley is terrific. I will say. Can you give a Scottish Charles Barkley Fishing. This should have been a golf podcast the whole time show. Jolly. Really. Narrow. Thing, so no. I can't even get through it. He sounds like six forty PM. Or okay that's tolerable. Broken out of. The shine whole. have. please. One Spencer Arena. Another one Got Scottish Charles. Barkley. It'd be even sadder. If you introduce Charles Barkley to scotch eggs it's over. Not just called me eggs just. Listen. So. This is really a story about somebody's grandfather comes from springs did twenty five at around the age of eight or nine. I was hitting golf balls with buddy and my grandparents backyard unsupervised on supervises in an important word clues you in as to how the rest of these scenarios are going to go. When He knocked me out with cold with a back swing I, wake up with my seventy s year old grandfather shirtless driving me to the emergency room to get my head glue back together. This is just a prelude though number to. A few years earlier in person Okay Yup few years earlier while add backcountry driving range. What tank deficit. That is. With the same grandfather I was bit by one of the Range Owners Jack Russell terriers only memory. That's a sentence that you could have stopped a little bit earlier. Only memory is the dog jumping up and that same grandfather again shirtless carrying me up the hill to the ER. Number three feels important to mention that. Yes we live in Florida, but the first story was in Georgia. GATORS and go bulls. Made like an HMO. Out of your grandfather for golf. Just thought this old childhood I want to imagine shirtless grandfather going out God. Damn it. Again. But not putting a shirt on not like, oh, gotTa go to the hospital better. Put a shirt on. Bit, by a dog and a back country driving range. Child. Nothing saying nothing speaks to my blood. It sounds bad. Jason. ALDEAN's crap. No I was asking Jason for his gene structures cutie rented. Okay. I. Just wanted to say that I'm mostly just on the idea of back country Jack Russell. Roving bandit dingoes. You know the driving range is due to look like ill-tempered Jack, Russell Terriers and an actual ill temporal Jack Russell terrier just all going like I'm out. Of Bud light this sucks I need to get. This kid. Has Got. Can't close up until these to leave fuck it I'm going to bite him. A grandfather going pinky. Got Him. He's in. He's he isn't hill tempered dog I should get that bastard on out of here. Go Bite Him. Shows dominant. Mitra. Holly you're. Up. Next. I've tried to stick to a theme for most of mine and that famous birds. I was teeing off on a par three says friend of the program blanks and there was a pond to the right. A hit the ball real hard dead, right an inch off the ground. It was stopped before hitting the pond by a fuzzy duckling which exploded into beak and feet. Though. Clutch. Hero Bird. To you Randy Johnson to. There's this. This is like reverse Easter. Oh look found. We've found a ball. to complete this round a as a repayment for last week when I was unavailable for Pref a I'm going to assign Ryan Lines in the spreadsheet that he has not yet read. and. I am going to have him read them live Ryan if you could begin with line twenty from friend of the program jargon not. I was playing with my dad and friend. teeing off on an uphill par three. And had to go over a road with a bridge. scold the fuck out of a seven iron into a railing on the bridge ball ricocheted back into my dad's chest. who was standing fifteen feet behind me into the right? Think. You're safe back there. Don't you? It's IT'S ONLY It's always nice when golf can become an evil word problem. That's what I love. My Dad is travelling at two miles an hour. Golf Cart leaves my club travelling at fifty five miles an hour anytime. You can hit somebody anytime. You'RE GONNA have somebody who's standing behind you. That's the ideal like Spencer is right the the the kid getting hitmen nuts like I'm sure he was standing in a quote unquote safe place but the problem is like golf safety presumes. Good. Play like here is where to stand to avoid a a golf ball hit by somebody capable. A golf law by somebody WHO's not capable. is a random number generator and you being even like on the course at that point, you have assumed the risk you know what I'm going to interrupt I'm going to call part of that statement completely inaccurate. As, long as Phil Mickelson is alive. Because Phil Mickelson shot so difficult that sometimes in fact, they do come into contact with spectators at high speed share often where they do not expect a ball to be or where many think it was not theoretically possible, and then he gives them a hundred dollars and signs the ball. Hit One onto the roof of club, what's that story that you're telling me? Everything else. Jesus, he hit the hit the top of the hospitality tent with the US Open on the line that with the one I'm thinking yeah. Winged foot in two thousand six he was going to win the US Open and instead of doing that he was like Y'all watch me Bang this bomb and he got out the driver when he should have put forward, hit it off the hospitality tent then hit a tree then try to hit it over that same three story tall tree and lost the tournament because I gotta hit bombs. See. This is where I feel like my dad should've kept me trying to learn golf because I can be this tenacious and pigheaded and bad at golf and I'd be bad financial crimes. So there's nothing between me and Phil Mickelson. Yeah see can Phil Mickelson's World Golf where you'll never know where the ball unmanageable egotism weirdly shaped body I got it all it's. It's a very rex Grossman approach. Listen he hit the hotel. At Saint, Andrews Yeah sure just beautiful. There's nothing like the best part is he's not really do it Phil hit the hotel. The. Show, that hotel his boss? You have a story on the spreadsheet from one of our readers that has a similar predicament. I do I have several I have my my theme sense to go around injury and around. Other things that you think shouldn't be hit. I've got a couple like that. The first is one is from Robert Nolan. which was was about one hundred, sixty yards out just behind the one hundred, Fifty Yard Marco, miss hit the ball directly into the one hundred, fifty poll shatter into a thousand pieces. Your Free Golf Course. Now we don't know where we. Loose from the tyranny of measurement, the curse has been broken. At, least you know exactly how far it was. Well I, hit it on. Yards. Now, we're all lost we'll never find our way home. Yeah. Another one comes from wroto tutor. which. I'll do a little bit of speed around here. My Dad always carried a one iron in his bag and was the only one. I ever saw able to hit this. When he died I used to carry tribute thought I'd be cute and punch out of the woods at one day the ball ricocheted off a tree not my buddy I gotcha. Have you ever seen a one iron? Oh Yeah. It's it's an evil looking man it looks like a child a golf club. Yeah like big like if you if you're like what is it it's piece of metal. It's a woodblock on the end. Skinny skinny. Woodblock? Yeah. That's. And I imagine that's exactly like now you're seeing the children's drawing of this whole incident, right? It's. Always carried meal near in his bag. No one can pick it up and then when I tried to be a smart ass with his ghost came down and almost killed my friend. One of them is kind of like just having like a mallet hammer on the end of the stick and just hit with this. Occasionally, there people who do the challenge where you only play with three clubs share. I would totally take a one iron just for customers just like. Because I'm not going to be good. Anyway, it might as well be weird. Yeah. Motto Yeah and then but this is this is all a build up to to this from a staircase wit. Maintenance for county course in highschool I'll man county courses. I have a feeling the best possible stores in. Okay. They're in there and therefore the people. Well. What's more rugged than? Working a county course. Okay. How about working the tree crew at a counterpoint because? Had a buddy who just returned to work after missing two days being t-boned by a car that ran a red light boss tells us the oak trees need shoots removed, which means we'd be climbing thirty to forty thirty to fifty foot trees with crooners. We had just gotten into our first trees which happened to line the. Fifth Tear Way. About Twenty feet off the ground we hear a week. As of ball screens through the twelve inch gap between me and my tree, and it's my ailing co worker directly in the ribs causing him to fall out. So. This is the funniest part about golf to me is that it's the sport that requires so much like physical maintenance of the course like from the design to making sure like everything is cut the right way to the slope of the Green Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah that. Wraps. and. It's just it in ninety, nine percent of cases. It's just so much assholes can go fuck it up. It's just it's just like imagine if all tennis like most people who play tennis go play on some shitty hardcourt somewhere. But imagine if all tennis was played on Wimbledon like these carefully manicured tennis courts and then you saw like your shit bird go out there a little bit hung over and just like slams racket ground. Now I want to see this actually. Yeah. It's an immense. It's an immense waste of effort for people who don't deserve the Nice thing that they have been well, and that's what makes an American. Every golf course is a is in effect a golden toilet because yeah, it's a gold toilet. You know what's going in it. Yeah. That's that's that's saw golf balls. Off. So all this talk of war has inspired me I've been playing video game of choice at the moment is sniper elite were you shoot Nazis and you watch the bullet like you you get this x Ray Cam where it's like Oh that's the. Goal winning and there goes his brain spewing out of his skull like you get the full x Ray Cam. We're GONNA make a golf video game where if you hit a pedestrian a fan Aa, what what did they call them at the Masters they call them patrons. You hit a master's patron you get the three D. Cam and it says. Tell Nicholson's like going okay. I got ten grand on this. It's going straight to his goal going to be. Shot. C. Four I'm GONNA break it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got mines grenades Yeah Golf is awesome. I have a Phil Mickelson Tale. This comes through us from focused or Jordan when the Barclays was at bethpage in two thousand twelve Phil Mickelson showed up at my friend's house because he couldn't find. He was supposed to stay. Knocked on however many doors until he found it. Wow I I mean. You can do with to me this I is suggested. This is third amendment case like shake Phil Mickelson is trying to quarter himself in my residence without my consent. No no no. The funny discardable. So feels lost the funniest part about Phil. Mickelson is that all of these things that he does like? Spencer if you go out and do some dumb shit in life or in off course. There, you're doing it by yourself. Yeah. Phil Mickelson has a caddy. And so every dumb thing has to have like an entire support team, right? Exactly. But. Also. Like a thousand patrons following him. But at least on the golf course, every time Phil Mickelson does something stupid. He has had a conversation with another trusted human who almost certainly said, don't do this Phil. And he said Fuck you. I'm doing it because there's a hundred dudes in like. Polos and khaki shorts and visors knock on that door Phil. That's the right one exit army. That's no. That's actually like I have followed Phil at a tournament and that is one hundred percent. It's a bunch of guys in quarter zips who all work in finance or want to talk about finances and they're all lined up behind him like Phil you need to do that insider trading shit again, the wolf of streets. That's really the goal really what is lying And like Burst. Also. That's that's how. That's how the two thousand six winged foot thing happened. He lined up and you can hear his caddy going well, no, you got to save shot here. Oh. Fuck. Just take a four would. Family man like he literally, he'd literally at hit it into a garbage can the whole before? Phil we talked about yeah. No like he's just take the forward man and he lines up and you can hear him on the video driver. And you see everyone around him like half the crowd is like. Fillets bombs, and the other half is like the other half sitting there going like, oh no, no dumpster Phil. Put It in My Skull I. Love It. Signed the whole. We'll. Nicholson. Give me the kidney shot. All my daughter Phil Mickelson trailers, Penn State twitter had the. They all trace mcsorley era penn state. Child. Feel every golf fan is when that wrestlemainia event was ladies. Yeah I have still scorecard. Dead. Listen. Becky. Lynch can and should. Shove trench down my throat and then just twist. That'd be and we love it. We'd love. Club me with a one iron. If you can carry it indeed. I have. I have one that I'd like to pop in with the way Jason, is that the sniper game where you get to shoot Hitler in the balls? What's I haven't gotten and that might be a spoiler that does not happen in sniper alert four. So it probably, they should probably do that in all of them. One of the sniper games I know you can shoot Hitler in the balls. Yeah in slow motion. He's like, Oh, it does give you exploding Nazi go Nad Cam. Down One year landmines. It's like you see them flailing and like, wow they're nuts just blew up now they can't make anymore. Nazis. Yeah so Out This was from I. Like this one the from Kyle Stevens because there's a cameo from someone who assume. is either his mother or a lady relative. Of some sort, maybe a childhood intimate friend. Caught my brother, flushing the thing to say, well, you'll see because it's not totally clear. The witness, the witness who? Turn, but go off it's either his mother or a childhood intimate friend what the fun. Okay Mr Attorney. Just wasn't going to go ahead and assume on just go no no no. If the court will permit me, I'll slander this woman. I don't like that you said childhood intimate friend. Anyway as somebody who definitely understands relationships limit a tree house I think. What I'm hearing is like imaginary like ghost. Imaginary goes friend Linda has a twitter account and she shows up when Leinna. Intimate friend I. Mean they said I mean they sit around eating artichoke hearts and drinking espresso and talking about sad passage of time. Please I'm sorry. Go ahead again Florida state fans say we never talk about you. Cal Stevens taught my brother flushed in the face with my driver. We were young and I wasn't supposed to be playing with the clubs. He walked behind me never saw him. I WANNA say around fifty stitches around his I miss the I completely though so much blood as Linda sue one can confirm. A Response Linda one shows up and says above the I below the eye and so much blood on my carpet exclamation point. What childhood intimate friend complained about. Their Base Although. You cried harder laugh loudly crying laughing face EMOJI EMOJI EMOJI EMOJI. Good. All right. I'm going to take a turn. I'm going to return us to our bird theme in just a moment but I need I need one more Mickelson style antics stories. I'm going to turn to US Paul. Coworker was chosen to drive our bosses at our firms golf trip in Scottsdale we return to the Waste Management Open because he is terrible at golf, he got the cart stuck on a rock about five feet above everything else in the middle of a dry gully. We never figured out how he got it. There got it down he was sober. He had the largest auto insurance policy limits. I've ever seen on an individual. No no you. Know. That is situational awareness and I think. That's right. Self actualization through Geico pick another one for Ryan. Okay. Ryan, let's say you. Let's take you to line twenty, three and friend of the program Maskell easy story. All right. Got It. Right here. My first job was working as Kurt boy at a public golf course. So I have two stories number one. The boss came by one day one day and said, the landscaping guy didn't show up and he needed one of us to run the MOWER, my co and I flipped for it and I won. A few minutes. Later, I watched as he started the self propelled Lawnmower oh? God. Look aside, run the more on the side of a hill facing downhill toward the lake. I saw it coming and there was nothing I could do he cranked it and the more immediately took off into the water. Look you said run the more. number two on my last day of work before the end of summer, the girls who ran the snack cart called me in a panic on the walkie talkie and said, they needed my help. I sped over to where they were where they revealed. They had crashed the snack car into a tree and badly bent the metal roof frame. There's a Blow Torch in the car barn. I told them. Do you know how to use it asked one of the girls. Yes, I lied. I attempted for about twenty minutes before informing them that the torch must not be the kind. They gets hot enough to melt metal. that. Guy. I clocked out. It's one of those like late at golf courses are courses. It's one of those blow torches for ladies. It's a kids. It's a kids blowtorch. Used to make the crust on like a nice flawn. Sure. It's incredibly torch. It's just a sparkler. I clocked out and did not return. I have no idea what became of the poor snack. Yeah there's a horrifying amount of like dangerous equipment at a golf course that is entrusted to lake. Grubby teens blowtorches like an actual like flame throwers the kind that trim brush. Yeah. Right. Right heavy heavy landscaping equipment. Gas Powered Golf Carts you got those and that's all with like the natural. Disaster that can come just from the Gulf itself to Florida you add in that like perpetual lightning tornadoes and shit. Yet. Golf is just an alligators. Yeah. It Golf is basically like beckoning you to die in an embarrassing fashion. Let's finish up lightning round. All right I was fifteen years old playing with friends says User Jonathan, Scott, I hit a drive to about one hundred and between me and the whole was a creek at about thirty geese. Trust, walk away just why Not Your lifestyle, right? An enemy of humanity and cannot be trusted. I took a sand wedge scolded about three feet off the ground and heard a whack my ball goose directly in the neck. Killing it instantly. Neck, but the thing about breaking gooseneck is that if it breaks about halfway up, it just slumps over onto itself like an upside down you. Go? CANS. All right next purred story. was hanging on this bird story, but we have one more wildlife tale was having a horrible round on a public course in DC says reader, Andy Pratt. I finally hit a decent drive on the twelfth hole as I got about fifty yards to the ball. A Fox. Comes out of the bushes stops at my ball to look me square in the is then picks it up and runs off. Ten relative. That's one hundred percent. Back Pitch. Like. Some fucking. Like Danish tale that if this happens, you'll have one year of luck or something. Off that. Dude it's a public course in DC. Imagine how many bad Golfers come through in the form of light congressional aides and whatnot but this guy, the the Fox couldn't take him. You have been visited by Gulf Fox Press after pay respects. You Go Fox. Now. Fox than that makes our friends slippy in this tale. I'm afraid Gulf. Fox appears. Some some haunted Danish with an. Eighteen forty comes out and it's like he's chosen you. His whole on this episode. Picturing Tire fucking midsummer festival. The Golf Fox's chosen you. Now you have to be burned in a barn dressed. All Fox. Giant. It is very great honor. From Dj Ringo's hit a duck on the eighth. We were on the ninth. Boom County.

golf Kemp Spencer football Gulf Michigan Tennessee Holly Jason Kirk basketball twitter United States University of Georgia Georgia tech Ohio We Settlement Agency golf magazine Alex Kirschner Richard Johnson Ryan lockdown SEC
The King of Aces

GOLF.com Podcast

17:08 min | 5 months ago

The King of Aces

"Holes in one are funny. Most of us don't even know the plural form of the term is it hole in ones or holes in one. Maybe we struggle with that because people never even achieve. Plural aces are hard to come by. At least they're supposed to be if I didn't know it was true. I might even questioned. I mean the bottom line. It makes no sense. I've played a tone of Gulf. Haven't even come close number twelve player in the world. Zander Shaw Fleet. He's played thousands upon thousands of par threes. He made his first ace just last year. So how is it a sixty six year? Old Man from Texas came to be known as the King of Aces. I kinda got paid the party and tall and hit a seven in that thankfully I was pretty good at all. Three Josh sends track down. This walking statistical anomaly to find out Josh. Have you ever made hole in one? Sean have made three holes in one. Yeah I can remember them all vividly and they all had witnesses. Can you rattle through the details on them for me? Yeah I one was about twenty years ago. I was playing in a fairly big money match with some poker player. Guys I knew were playing two man game. The reason I remember the two man game is because I made a one. My partner made a seven and we lost the hole. The second hole in one was in Montana at the Yellowstone Club is very high end private club in the mountains about to a short par three at elevation and it was a beautiful scene because it was a whole that played over a gully and there were two baby moose grazing in the gully and I hit my shot nice little lazy draw bounce one hop in I just raised my hand and said hole in one and my wife looked up from the car. She was just staring at the medicine. She said something like that that good and then the third one came in November of two thousand fifteen. I remember because it was shortly after my dad passed away. And I'm not one of those sort of point to the sky kind of athletes but it definitely had one of those feelings. I had an eight iron in the tournament and I had a shot into the sun. Couple of hops. I didn't see it go in. I was blinded by the glare but that felt like a pretty meaningful moment as well. Okay I'm glad you mentioned multiple aces. Tell me who is Mansfield Davis? And how did you come across him? Yes Mansell Davis is known as the King of Aces. I was asked to do a story. Just about the whole in one tradition. Whether you're really required to buy drinks after after you make a hole in one and so just googled who's made the most hole in ones? I figured I'd ask that person what his thoughts are and up came. Mansell Davis. You're looking at a young man with establish our record concerning my questions that you making fifty one official holes in one didn't answer my questions truthfully. Yes they did not get the million forehead. So I'll behave. He's a West Texas guy. Grew up in a Desa Texas. He's in his sixties. Now he was. He was a teaching pro for many years aspired to be a PGA tour player and did play but mostly a club pro who was then discovered and became a personality on the whole on one circuit. Moment you arrive at a million dollar hole in one shootout. You'd know you're about to experience something far different from the typical charity or corporate golf event in that capacity he traipsed around the country as the King of aces wearing a purple robe and crown entertaining crowds and making lots of holes in one along the way. Wait the king of Aces. How many are we talking about? Mansell Davis has fifty one aces. How as you might imagine this king of aces got his start at an early age making his first ace at just eleven years old golden acres country club which doesn't even exist anymore in Odessa I want to say it was a three iron one hundred sixty seven yards and it was actually a good shot. That one was It was a little draw shot as I recall and it skipped and rolled in the whole within a year. He had made eight of them and that caught the attention of the local paper. That story went on the wires and by the time he was twelve years old and he had eight holes in one already. He got called by. Cbs where you're from Texas. You certainly are are. They had a show called them. I've got a secret that was hosted by Steve Allen. You're looking at a young man related young man who was established a record that will make grown men. Cry You whisper to me. We'll show our audience. Just what established your record in another? He gets a pretty funny clip. That captures era for sure well would make grown men cry some of them. You've been married fifteen times. Is it some sporting things? I'm athletic. Do Your feet touch the ground? Do you run. No Ma'am Walk. Yes ma'am and this part. Part of the reason why people couldn't guess his secret was because it's hard to believe it sounds ridiculous. I tend to think people probably weren't rushing to believe him either. Where THEY JOSH? There were doubters. There have always been doubters. He said even when he was a kid after he came back from New York and he made a bunch of aces he'd be playing at the local club whereas parents belong in Odessa. And you know people would treat him with a mix. It was either sort of awestruck and congratulatory like a man slowly kid going to make another ace or they'd be like hey kid urging another by the time he was twenty he had made he basically shot his agent in Isa's so he had as many aces as candles on his birthday. I talked to one guy who grew up with mansell a little bit older in Texas and saw Davis making two aces once when their kids in junior golf and the other when they were both working as assistant pros in Texas actually years later said the first one was a Karimov a tarp that was being used to protect the green and the next one he said Davis hit it totally fat the three would kind of worm burned up around the green rattle off the flagstick dropped Diseases were legit but as he admits you know they say a hole in one is a show with a lot of luck. I've been very lucky with. I'm good iron player. I tend to visualize more effectively on the par threes in the a good shot with a lot of luck. They say the average person making ace is twelve thousand. Five hundred to one mental Davis claims fifty one of them soon enough he turn all those aces into a legit revenue street. The moment you arrive at a million dollar hole in one shootout you know you're about to experience something far different from the typical charity corporate golf event. It's it's a very common situation now when you play in a corporate charity event to see a car or cash awarded for a whole one on a specific whole John Everhart basically invented hole in one insurance. If you're a golf course driving range owner looking to bring new traffic to your property. The whole in one shoot out has great great and distinct advantages for all in the next few moments. We're GONNA share with a terrific event at brings out a lot of people whether they're great. Gablers just beginners one of the beginners. Just just come to the woodland's from From Dallas Redmon the Trophy Club skip bayless. Oddly enough is responsible for summer but he had done an article there at the Dallas Times Herald was John. Everhart was starting to form. This company called National hole-in-one Association. Former editor of Golf magazine. Parker Smith was doing the public relations for him and marketing ideas and they read skip bayless article and decided to call me since. This is an Augusta national. In your typical hush-hush crowd event. The players are recognized and encouraged throughout the event by the official MC which happens to be yours. Truly Mansell Davis on this end better known as the King of Aces because I've been fortunate enough to score the PGA world record fifty holes in one in the next thing. I know I'm name the King of Aces and I'm kind of the spokesperson for this new company coming out and I'll never forget instead of a an annual payment or whatever I took a a percentage I said I'm already got a nice job at the woodland's and I'd rather you know go on on the com- I said I'd rather have a little piece of each policy. Hopefully you'll see what you like and folks we would love to come to your area and conduct a million dollar hole in one. Shoot at just for you. You know one of his jobs is the king of aces was to stand on a tee boxes tournaments went through and he hit a shot at the par-three and the group would get to play his ball. And if you made an ace at counted now it only counted as an official whole and one for him if he made it on the first shot of the day and that happened twice. He said when that happened as zoo to make it official he would have to wait for the tournament to go through You know sit there all day on the tee box hitting with every group and when the final groups that finished you would go ahead and finish his round to make it official as they named King of Aces that again. That was their deal. Unequivocally I'd ever nobody ever heard of King of aces and They did as my business card a play card in like I'm the king and they put me in a wooden throne and they had this purple robe with white I for and a gold crown. I mean in my Lillo fat dom my big fat face. It was not a pretty picture I kinda got paid to party and talk his seven iron and thankfully. I was pretty good at all three as with anyone who makes an ace there. Is this sense of share. Okay I believe you so josh with Mansell and his fifty one aces. Do you believe him. Please remain still. This portion of the exam is now beginning. Remember yes or no answers. Only we put them on a lie detector test. He has passed polygraphs. He has witnesses. Are you telling the truth? When you stated you have made fifty one official holes in one in your golf career. Yes you know. In addition to his passing the polygraph and having witnesses he just doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would lie about that. You have a plus twelve. Just scoring three charts. Plus four is passing so you have way more than you need look Hoodie do there enough Redo. I'm with Josh. I think we can happily accept massive Davis as the official King of Aces. I never could figure this out. We've had some psychiatrists actually do some brainstorming. My brainwave were discernibly different on a par three of say at six hundred three then they were with that. Same six iron from the middle of the fairway or in my case the rough. But I mean you know on a regular par-four par-five Remember Jack Nicklaus said at one time he should go to the movies in your mind but it was like six iron on a par three dislike. I imagine living color giant screen. Six earned from elsewhere was like little biddy. That's something I could never explain soaks at home. You might be wondering when is number fifty two coming well unfortunately? Mansell Davis is no longer playing golf. An accident in two thousand fourteen is kept him from being able to play the last six years. He misses the game. Kind of wish display myself. But he knows that he's a blessed life when you get him talking about Isis Man. Is He light up the average golfer he she? They can't think of winning. They can't even dream about winning the Uso Masters or the LPGA championship. But what they know that there's at one perfect autumn day or morning or afternoon the sun's just rider. The wind is just right and they catch that five iron square and it goes in and they they just hit a shot that tiger woods kit do any better. Thanks for tuning into this episode of the drop zone. If you want to see Mansell Davis you've brought his story to light in a mini doc on golf dot. Com is quite the character. He's also got one more world record. Nancy Davis is also the king of Albatross. He's made ten folks. Good luck topping. Either of those Mars. I wouldn't trade places with any I really would. I mean I I. I got more stories in the show. Dog Khun John and I mean and the nice part is in. I don't care who believes him or not because I was there. I've been real blessed. All righty thanks to Josh Sans. Bringing us the story of Mansell Davis. Now I'll bring in co host Dylan to chair Dylan last week. You told us that you've made one ace. But what do you think is the most famous ace of all time? Oh wow the most famous ace ever. I mean Tiger in Phoenix comes to mind that the waste management in the late nineties. Yeah is there any others that come close though Gosh I mean there was a great moment last year at Augusta where you're writing a column about how the sixteen th hole has become too easy on Sundays and then right on Command Jon. Rahm hit it to like six inches and then Justin. Thomas made an ace the very next shot. Yeah exactly so. That is That's an area where a lot of famous aces might take place to sixteenth at Augusta but the most famous is probably Tiger Woods at Phoenix or I will contend the ace that Michael Jordan made in space jam. How about that? Oh I mean in terms of like clutch must make shots. It's tough to compete with. And as that changed the sporting landscape is there any? I mean it basically shut down the NBA. Yeah that's true. I mean that was actually the first real NBA shutdown before you know. I mean in the current modern landscape the NBA. Shutdown really changed the course of our entire countries action. So I mean that means even more thing about it in the current context. Totally so We teed that up basically because next week on the drop zone we're GonNa talk about Michael Jordan. Espn is coming out with the last dance. It's thirty thirty. That talks about everything in Michael Jordan's incredible career and one of the most important things in Michael Jordan's career is golf. The Guy Played Golf during nights in which he went off for forty five points. He played golf in the morning for thirty six holes in one gold that evening in the Barcelona Games. The Guy has made golf apart of his life. I it's no wonder because he's the one of the most competitive people. Ever in Dillon. I would contend that golf is a sport that finds the most competitive people. Oh Yeah I mean the thing about Jordan is that he loves golf so much and having the golf course to himself so much that the private courses of Florida were not private enough for him so we went ahead and built his own grove. Twenty-three which is one of the things we'll explore next week is just this whole world of Florida. Golf that seems to orbit around Jordan. He is such a central figure. He's like a godfather in this world of Pro Golfers in that Jupiter Florida area. There's so many stories that come out of this and we'll tap into at least a few of them. Yeah we're going to bring the most epic Gulf Tales from Michael Jordan's love of that game. And when you think about it. The most famous golfers in the world. They're not like Tiger Phil Jordan. Spieth rory their tiger. Donald Trump Rock Obama and I think Michael Jordan might be number four on that list. You had to. Yeah you should probably at least a little ahead of Steph curry. Who's a little bit ahead of Tony? Romo I mean there's some guys that it's one of the cool things about golf you know you don't see so. Many athletes like playing a lot of touch football necessarily but a lot of these guys do play Golf Jordan chief among them. Yeah definitely stay tuned for that next week. Thanks LE- finer for producing this episode of the drop zone. We will see you guys one week from now.

golf Mansell Davis Josh Sans Michael Jordan official Mansfield Davis Texas Mansell Gulf Mansell Davis Zander Shaw Fleet Florida Golf magazine Sean NBA Steve Allen Augusta Dallas Times Herald Cbs John Everhart
Jup Life!

GOLF.com Podcast

46:30 min | 2 years ago

Jup Life!

"Ooh, I think it's eleven dollars might be thirteen but anyway, it is one hundred percent worth whatever it is. It is a little tray little like Skillet actually of ground up. Graham crackers tout topped with melted chocolate topped with. Heated up marshmallows. Mallow it's like billowing over the edges, and then you're given extra grand crackers to like dive in as if they were nachos, right? So you grab your grandpa accurate. You dive in through the marshmallow into the melted chocolate and you bring it out and you basically treat it. Like I said, like nachos, best desert have had in my entire life. Dylan were. We're back in New York. We're back baby. We spent a lot of time not in New York recently, but we're back in New York. We're living Joop, lay man, hoopla a little bit of five tour with the fellas Joop. Live means Jupiter life. We were down in Jupiter, Florida for large majority of last week. So let's let's kinda take a step back here. Jupiter Florida is golf's international capital of the world. Essentially you at that. Oh yeah, I have already dubbed this. You look at the best players in the world. I'm not sure exactly what percentage is, but it's dozens and dozens and dozens of a deep dive on this at the time that I wrote this. This was last year. I believe there were seventy two players living in that general area that had PGA tour status. That number I think is only going up, but that includes people like Tiger Woods, Rory mcilroy. Brooks kept gut, Dustin Johnson AT, rich, Jackie necklace. Justin Thomas, basically the biggest names in golf are all based at least part time in the Jupiter area, Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan? Yup. Donald Trump and other famous golfer and Jupiter essentially means you know anything in that stretch Jupiter itself is small enclave suburb of West Palm Beach. But you know, Palm Beach gardens, parts of West Palm Beach, all the way up to like palm city. It's just isn't mean isn't it technically like right between Orlando and Miami? Yeah, it's, I suppose if you're listening to this podcast and you don't know where Jupiter is she's check it out, do a little more research, but we're going to break down Joop lie for you starting with the bears club because we fly in on Monday night and we go to the bears club. What brought us to the bears club Sean? Yeah, no, spoiler alert here really Brooks kept as the player of the year for golf magazine. So we had a big photo shoot in some time spent with with Brooks KEPCO, but we're at the bears club first and foremost, and one thing for those who don't go there who've never been there, which is probably a lot of you. The bears club shockingly close to for me to Trump national. I mean, essentially, it's close. It's they share a driveway. Yeah, they people have talked about their relationship between Trump and a lot of PGA tour players. And Jack Nicklaus I think is pretty much always been a very avoidable of Trump's in order to, but you know there. Relationship makes little sense. When you realize that Trump Jupiter is literally on top of the bears club, and this is that's another one of these weird Florida golf distinctions. We have to make Trump national Jupiter is not where Trump plays most of his golf, not connection tomorrow. Lago that is actually Trump International, which is connected to Palm Beach. The two are probably don't know forty minutes apart. See these are the things that if you don't pay like granular attention to, you wouldn't know. But the driveway forks into two and goes left. And there's a sign for Trump's course goes right to the bears club. And so that's the first factoid from me beyond that. There's just all Jack everywhere at this place like freaking everywhere. His face articles about him photos on the walls, a bust, like statues it is Jack Nicklaus everywhere, and maybe I should have known that based off of the name of the club. The bears. Club, he's the Golden Bear, but damn that. That's like my biggest takeaways. He is freaking everywhere and what it means that he is everywhere is that all these pros. So this is another thing about the bears called all these pros that play there. That means that every time they walk through there reminded okay, the goat, this guy is the one who still owns the greatest champion who you can never quite get to while. And there were other things that were reminders of the majors. Jack, obviously, eighteen majors. He is leader in the clubhouse when it comes to most major championships and they hit you because every time you walk into the locker room, you walk in a different entrance. Yes, so there. So there are four entrances or at least four sections for sexually, probably more than four sections of locker room, but the main locker room has four entrances. And before you walk in at the entrance is either US open, British Open PGA or masters. And they have the years in which Jack one, those of those events on like little gold plates. They got the photos of Jack winning those events. So you can't really even go there. Put your Gulf shoes on without being reminded of Jack's major victories. There are other locker rooms subset locker rooms. One is called tradition. I don't know what the the other ones are, but I know that basically you just bludgeoned over the head with Jack Nicklaus, whether that's good or bad, that's what you get there. Well, and let's talk about just walking around looking at the names on these lockers. We might get banished for even discussing. But no, you know, we've heard about the guys that are members there. You know, Ricky Fowler Rory DJ it's almost more than that. It's it's the number of guys who you've heard of guys that are decent PJ to. Yes. Whose names are also in the lockers on your bond? Lahiri. Patrick Rogers? Yeah, Alex Noren Alex, Cheka. We're right, right next to each other. Jordan abrogate who's not even a PGA tour pro is a name that I recognize because the hails from Wisconsin and I've talked to him handful of times about coming up from Wisconsin, but he is a member there, and I would just think that at least going into that day, I did not think that tourney Bary either had enough money or was famous famous enough in the game to be a member there. I'm sure you know they're different statutes of of membership, but yeah, meme like players on top of players on top players, ones that you would expect in many that you wouldn't. And so there's a few dozen guys who are two or players there. There's another squad up medalist, which is more of a golf only serious, really hard brutal golf course where we're tiger practice out of and then there's a few others. Ordine Floridian a bunch of guys play there to quest die preserved. There's a few other places where to replace player maybe a slightly smaller number or just guys that are a little lower profile. Old palm would be another one, but it just really comes down to a handful of these courses field memberships from all these two are pros. Interesting. The bears club said that all these guys are dues paying members. They all pay to to be there. So they are actual members, but the other members, I think they just love having him around. Yeah. Well, maybe that's the thing. If you if you make this like Jack's place, you make it a place that tour players want to come to be like Jack or or like iron sharpens iron in which the best players in the world go to the place where the best players in the world are and aside from that, you know, let's say you're someone like, I don't know, maybe you're on Obama Harry and you kinda wanna go to a place that you're not gonna get bothered. He's maybe not famous enough to get really bother. But you you to go to a place that is conducive to to elite talent and elite players that you don't want to go to a course where you're the best player when he's at home. You know, wherever he grew up playing, he is the man at that course at the bears clubby probably Har hardly registers. Yeah, and a guy Daniel Berger talks about growing up in this atmosphere because he was at the diapers Irv talking his way into money games being, you know, a caddy working at golf courses being fourteen fifteen years old talking about iron sharpens iron. If you're just around the game, it almost feels like a competitive disadvantage. Did not be play out of these places because where are you going to get money games that are, you know, nearly as good or practice rounds or exchanging ideas. We're there obviously for a reason and that was to hang out with Brooke's capita. And what I'm curious about is as your takeaway on that because you had not had any like one on one time around Brooks, he's a guy that doesn't really give away one on one time to a lot of people and. So I was kind of more curious having already had that with him to see what your takeaway was after your experience with with Beka. Yeah, and I don't want to give away our thunder upcoming magazine, which you should definitely check out. We've got a bunch of good Brooks content, but it was it was interesting getting to hang out with them a little bit. It was he and his few members of his small team where there. Well, I'll give him credit to begin with. You didn't have much of an entourage. No, he didn't. But this guy had just played the done, the Dunhill links championship. He flew back from Scotland on Monday. He's meeting us on Tuesday. He said that he had woken up at two in the morning and couldn't get back to sleep on Tuesday morning. So we just stayed awake. And he had like a bunch of PGA tour stuff to do. He had a bunch of things going on and he gave us two hours worth of time, but I could just tell dude was probably bit song a, he was very pleasant with us. I felt like he was. You say that and you sound surprised? Yeah, because he does not go out of his way to endear himself to the media. Typically, this is a guy who's public facing image is, you know, I'm here but don't expect too much from me. I think that's been the rap with Brooks. I will answer your questions, but I won't be excited about it. And I think that in this setting we were able to well, really you because you sat down mostly with him. We're able to draw a little more out of him partly because you, you know, I think he was prepared for this is a setting where he was getting to to tell his story. But also I think he just was in a comfortable position. You know, he knows you a little bit from sitting down in the past. It was interesting. He he's a more dynamic guy than has been portrait. He certainly still super underrated as a player because his stretch of golf and big. Has been ridiculous. And he also was having more fun during the photo shoot than he could have just gone through the motions, whatever. But he instead, he was, you know, jumping around trying different kicks and playing along with the photographer and the the, the best part of the photo shoot was when the photographer who is a great guy, but doesn't really follow the day in day out, storylines of golf told Brooks to like put it put up his fists, like using a prizefight. Yeah, friction that guy. I'm not sure this is such a great idea. Obviously referencing rumors flying around with DJ. But that was awesome. Overall, he hit a fun time with it, and I am excited for you guys to to read more about Shawn's story with him because there's some insight that we got from him. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily call it a story much much more like a q. and a. back and forth a piece a work. But you mentioned DJ DJ was there in is there. We didn't see much of him. This was in close proximity to all of the stories that came out of the Ryder Cup, be them true false or just rumor, whatever DJ was there. And he did that that PJ tour social video, social video, those two brutal, not the greatest cringe-worthy acting, but these guys aren't actors. They're gophers it was so almost so bad that it was all right. If you don't know what we're talking about. They DJ presented Brooks with the player of the year trophy and out. You should just go watch it. You'll check it out. But I, you know, for me. Not that we needed it. I really didn't need it. But I think that kind of helps put this whole DJ Brooks thing to bed at little bit like the takeaway from all the initial reports is like, oh my gosh, Brooks and DJ got in a fight. And these are the unnamed sources that are coming out of the locker room that have incited this, and then it was Brooks denies denies in is and DJ just pretty silent. He's not talking anybody about it. It just it felt like if there was going to be something substantial to it, there'd be more they would come out of it. In that just wasn't. I'm not ready to put it to bed, but I think over it happened, I'm very over it. I think there is some sort of confrontation, but you know when it comes to friends and competition teammates, money, alcohol, who knows? It doesn't seem like go freak was reporting today. Go freak was reporting today that it was Brook's actually defending DJ in making DJ back off of somebody else. So the plot thickens? Yes, the plot thickens and that's just the point here, is that like clearly there was probably something that happened, but was it Brooks versus DJ Brooks says, no, was a DJ or someone else quite possibly? Was it all just like fueled by the booze or the celebration or the fact that they got beat and they weren't feeling great about the Gulf. They played probably some myriad of all these things. Well, here's two things about that because it's so easy for the media to us included to take this storyline. Oh, Brooks, and DJ or friends look at that, which is sort of what has happened with JT and speak. Yeah, but these guys really are they, they haven't shied away. They have not talked to and right after the PJ championship right after Brooks at one. And I remember you asked him, did you get annoyed where it's like every time one of you guys does something good? The other one gets asked about it and DJ was like, not really did. He's, he's like my best fr-. And you know, we hang out all the time. He wasn't bothered by it all the other day. You were asking Brooks about the pillars of important people in his life, and boom, you went right to DJ said the sky is hugely important to me. Yeah, so they don't shy away from it. So maybe that's why we were most very interested in it. But anyways, like I'm just over that story to begin with unless there's something super salacious that comes out of it, I'm kind of over it well, salacious in substantive and something that we can back up. So stay tuned. But yeah, inspect, we'll be getting many more substantive details there. Someone else that was at the bears club. Yeah, I don't want to talk about the bear himself. Yeah, Jack, Jack Nicklaus. Was there. And you talked to him briefly, I talked to him, we'd a big day you interviewed Brooks, I interviewed Jack and I gotta say the guy was a little gruff. I would say an introduction. You know this Guzman giving out interviews for decades and I was asking for half a century is asking him a question of, oh, can I ask you this? And he was like, just asked me on camera, asked me on the guy is he's a pro. He's not gonna. Waste take is not gonna waste thought, so I asked him, boom. Once the red light turns on, he was so engaging, you know, connecting with the camera. Yeah, warm, thoughtful, all these things that was pretty impressive performance because you know, you can tell he's tired, either had a long day of meetings that morning. Here's just a, you know, nother reporter, Shelvin a camera in his face asking first time I will say you're like incredibly gracious with your interviews, which I think just means that you are way to like take down. Jack, no buyer's club. But I think oftentimes when players are not like super open with me right away or like clearly engaged by it, I'm just like, all right. If you're not engaged, not engaged, but you're, you're very good care. I don't care. You're very good at engaging them. That's, but except you say that, but still, I guess that's a sign that that Brooks has been a little bit more open around you because I think that's what happens with fans and Brooks. It's like, look Brooks, you don't care and why? Why would we care about you if you don't care about golf? Yeah, people have definitely held that mentality. So Jack, was there not just because it's the bears club, but he was there as a member of the world golf hall of fame and not only that the world golf hall of fame like voting committee. Which is sixteen people, and he was what one of them alongside Mike Davis. Seth wa, Jay Monahan like all of a sudden they're little delegation breaks, and I'm sitting there in the hallway and Seth wa in Davis, and Monaghan comes strolling through, I think to go to the bathroom or whatever. And over here, Seth walk calling Mike Davis, Mikey boy, Mike. Mike hell of that. And yeah, it was just it was very interesting. It's just like these are the the big, the important people in the Gulf world deciding in that moment in the same building who's going to be in the world golf hall of fame. This was almost literally a knights of the round table set up because they were all just seated around this semi circle table doling out hall of fame votes, and I don't really feel great about the hall of fame is kind of a strange one to begin with, especially in golf because there are so many different ways to contribute to the game of golf and to potentially be inducted into the hall of fame others. You know, the baseball hall of fame has people that weren't players and has people that weren't superstars, but mostly it's superstars. And then there's special exceptions for other people. Golf seems like it's much more of an eclectic random mix. Yeah, in a good way in like without a doubt, a good way. I mean, you can just look at this year's group of five, bright, and they are as diverse. I think as you can probably get, he could probably become a little bit more diverse, but you have men women people from different walks of the game play or champions. Yes. So in that sense, it's great, but I just don't know how I feel about having sixteen people kind of vote on it. When you look at the other hall of fame standards for other sports, you have far more than that and sixteen just is for me too small sample size where you can have a lot of friendships like catering. It's this whole clubby Gulf thing that people don't like for obvious reasons in the fact that it's the smog group of people just deciding. Something in the conference room, the bears club is is yes. So I Don brand golf on brand for golf. I just, I don't particularly feel great about it that way. Let's talk about the hall of fame here quick for a sec because so that's happening down in Jupiter while we were there than the word comes out. The questions of tour confidential that we feel to this week like are these people all hall of fame worthy like? Are you really going to sit on your high horse and say. That person's not hall of fame word, the cause all these people that are finalists have had a phenomenal impact in the game. It's not just that they hit five hundred home runs at three thousand base hits. It's that you know what? They won a major in fifteen tour events, and they designed some of, you know, the the best golf courses in America or things like that. It's just like it's so much harder to weigh on the impact of these people and to quantify impact so that if you're finalist, like in my book, you kind of hall of fame member how 'bout traveling Joe pass was the only one descending thrown a little shade at routine Goosen well, and I'll say this beyond Joe pass off, someone else was texting me earlier today saying, I'd like to debate whether or not retrieve Goosen. Wow, geez, time US open winner, routine Goosen, two-time, US, open winner. There's a lot of people who have two majors, and I think the fallacy with the hall of fame has just that Fred Couples was let in with his one major, his one masters, the ninety, two masters. And that's kind of the the scapegoat that people go back to like, well, if you keep going back FREDDY got in, yeah, why don't we put so and so in and like Tom Weiskopf has the one major and just as many tour wins as couples he's not in. But he's designed plenty of great Gulf courses, and he's been in the broadcast booth and like he's been around the game and promoted the game, Donald these things for the game. He just doesn't have the Freddie boom, boom, nickname in the the green jacket that he goes back to every year well, and what it comes down to is it's a lot easier to make the argument for people that are out being in, then people that are once you're in, it's it's weird to be like, this person doesn't deserve to be fame. It's much weirder Ayman Lynch over golf week, wrote a piece about how look the favourite Gulf week redder. The problem isn't that these people get inducted. It's like, let's have it happened sooner. You look at Peggy, Kirk bell was inducted this year and. Two years after her death. This is a woman that was big time in golf for decades. She was born in one thousand nine, twenty one. There was plenty of time to do this. So we need a little more urgency to honor these people while they're still here. Yeah, it's just tricky and that's why the whole thing about having sixteen people weigh in on this, there should be at least sixteen women involved in the hall of fame selection committee. Like you said, it's just so on brand for the game of golf in its history. Tested, these guardians of the games commonly secret society types feel exactly. Like I think if you get more people than you end up having this stronger sample size and selection more is going to be better. That's just the bottom line, and I don't feel great about sixteen, but anyway, that's that is one thing we ran into down in Jupiter more is better yet, and here we are were were cruising around. This is where so much of golf news, at least in the offseason seems to center around Jupiter. Yeah, we're driving on the roads that. That tiger got pulled over for DUI and we were like, it's true shit, that's that's right over in this area. Exactly like that. Right. And we wanted to go check out the woods. I'd been there before this is Tigers restaurant, but Ricky and JT had just been there the previous week, celebrating Tigers tour championship win Sean, had not been there. We ended up going twice. Folks. I was stoked to go. We've both flew in Monday night. I went and picked you up. We drove like further than we had to to get there. We wanted to hang out there. Great selection of TV's like it's it's quality sports. Let's walk you through it. You pull into what seems to be strip mall, and I know that I was since told that is an upscale strip mall, upscale Florida's strip mall, but you I kind of was hoping I guess I was expecting to pull into a place with its own parking lot. Stand delays with its own setting. So mid western play place that doesn't have something above it. Uh-huh. But this is not the case you pull in and you drive by it and they had valet across the street. Twenty yards away is a Tommy Bahama's Chico's Tommy Bahama's a few other restaurants right there, which I was reminded by a local is why it's upscale. Tommy Bahama's is apparently upscale. I don't know if I tend to agree with that, but maybe I'm showing my my New York. Yeah. Yeah, Manhattan Wisconsin, elite Sean Zach. But yeah, that's what's across the street. And it's a little actually tucked away within the mall. So you can't see it from the road. Maybe that's for the better, but it it just that gives me a little bit of a weird vibe. The setting is about what I expected. I knew it was quote unquote an upscale sports bar, and that's exactly what it is. It's, it's got some cool lighting and plenty of TV's and various areas where you can sit at the bar. You can sit at the stand ups, you can sit in the booths. There's a couple sectioned off areas. It feels more like a well. I don't know if this Trojan say more like a restaurant than a bar, but I think my main point in that is this place doesn't look like it would ever get super rowdy. I mean, there will never get super loud at least in this current today to imagine they're sort of in the off season still. The only could get super loud is if like they're watching Sunday at the master's and Tigers standing. That's the only that's the only time. And maybe that is not self is in contention that's for the better probably I dunno for that's the vibe that they want a think it's it is tiger in that it's it's in control. You know, if you talk about visuals, you mentioned the TV's. It's an awesome TV set up. There's two sets of TV series. If you're sitting back from the bar, you've got your own row of TV's. If you're sitting at the bar, there's a second level of TV's like above the bar, so no lack of visuals. The bartenders and servers are are dressed pretty hilariously like they're, it's like they're working at a approach shop or some, oh, totally know. They're wearing like your beg staff outside staff, a tire, whether it's the women or the men yet you're wearing Gulf clubs, Nike athlete, golf clothes, Nike Gulf Dan non, not even athletes are it's just like Nike, Nike, polos, Nike pants. Yep, Nike skorts like Yup, and Nike white belts white helps for the men. These guys are wearing while one guy who's wearing full on tiger scripting red red shirt, black pants. I wonder if. Civic role, like if you're wearing the red and black, like you're the manager that it's like the Karens armband and soccer. I wonder if you he goes off shift. Yes. To like take shirt off, give it to the next highest in command? No, they've definitely. I really hope they have. It's like scheduled out where it's like, okay, Jeff, you're on the, you're in the closing shift. And yeah, we've got you wearing red that day. Imagine the the statement if then someone else for their red shirt that day stayed in q. you like when Patrick Reed he wore what red and black against tiger one of those years. Exactly. So beyond the scripting. That's eight me menu. That's not bad annoying to me. No fun could do better. I just think maybe if you're going to go like with tiger scripting have you go like two thousand or liked it hundred one just wetter Spag is all hell. And like the the sleeves on the polos go beyond the elbow that maybe you end up like had the super baggy pants with like a belt. That's too long and you just have theme nights, you know who take you through because Tigers had a pretty distinctive style every like three four years got into or ninety nine Ryder Cup night. And right now they're just stuck in. I don't know what it's like, twenty eleven. Whenever he was rocking those white belts, and I talked him into wearing white shoes white belts. And yes, these two tone Nike shirts. So I don't know. There's something to it blade collar Thursdays. There's something more alliterative there, but. Anyway, the menu. Yes. So the menu solid. I will say it's solid. I would say it's also probably a bit overprice for my tastes. I don't live in south Florida. I don't know what typical price of things are Jupiter and yes, we are expensive every damn thing, but it just felt a little overpriced, Duar counts, listen to this pot. I hope not. But the best thing on the menu he's actually on the dessert menu. That's a tease you talk about the bison burger until I wanted. Yeah, let's we'll get to that. I, let's go through because we were there two nights would we get for apps? We got some wings. Those were good. We gotta win good, solid wings. Buffalo wings appropriate heat, and then I had the bison burger. I think it's hard to do wings well, you can really screw it up and they, they were just fine. They were good. They were not. There were not exceptional. Now, there were good. The bison burger was really good. Yeah, I'd really tasty burger with good truffle fries on the side. And then the next night I had fish tacos with we can't. We hold on the wings, the important part of the wings. What's that is that we dove into the wings, oh, the apps we don't like literally dove is just happened. He's a buffalo wing or hands again, all kind of crazy with spicy buffalo sauce, and our waiter comes by. He's like, do you guys want the? Oh, I'll bring by some some wet towel. To to help you clean up your hands and he brings by these special warm rolled up wet towels. Yes, sir. He pulls them out of like a little been with with a set of tongs and then put them in front of you. And then like waits until you're done basically hand. It's like an intercontinental flight and wits in which you're, you know, you're waking up and they give you like warm something to kind of like wash your head. That's what it was for the wings, which I absolutely loved. Haven't gotten that service anywhere. That's why you're paying twenty bucks for fish tacos. Okay. It was all you might as well get the wings every time, then I also got the Caesar salad in this. You know, just another thing that's hard to do amazing and you to fuck up, but that's was just fine because then when you get to dessert, that's where they go a little off the rails. Good thing. You remember it's, you know, sports related bar. You see people walking around holding. Cotton candy. Yeah, that's I'm candy is on the dessert menu, which is alright. Give you the hot towel treatment for the cotton candy because Huckabee something where you need. Yeah. Yeah. What are people supposed to eat con candy with a fork this now. Now it's the, that'd be sad. That would be really nice me off actually. All right, but the best the best part of the menu, as I said was on the dessert menu in it is the smallest casserole. I think it's eleven dollars might be thirteen. But anyway, it is one hundred percent worth whatever it is. It is a little tray little like Skillet actually of ground up. Graham crackers topped topped with melted chocolate topped with. Heated up marshmallows. Mallow it's like billowing over the edges and then you you were given extra grand crackers to like dive in as if they were not chose right. So you grab your grandkids Eker. You dive in through the marshmallow into melted chocolate and you bring it out and you basically treat it. Like I said, like nachos, best desert have had in my entire life was rich. This is a rich desert. We'd gotten a second desert also because I don't know. We just got talked into it. We were bawling out and we get these donuts on the side which are tasty and the smallest casserole. We had to just do our best to take it all down. But my God, this is like a, it's probably desert for three or four. Yeah. Realistically, we took it down though, like true champions on the road that was awesome. Are bartender was saying that she had been waiting to get it and waiting to get it, but it's not. It's one of those things where you can go grab a snack of it behind, you know, back in the kitchen while you're at work should become sent. Really like with her sisters. I think we're going to the woods for dinner and we're getting the smallest casserole. And other things she told us was that she had been working there all summer. She'd only seen tiger once. She's kind of hoping, you know, maybe this guy's going to show up at his bar under his namesake. Yeah, and it hadn't happened. And then all of a sudden the other day she ran into tight, literally bumped into him in the kitchen in the kitchen cooking. This is pretty funny because you hear stories of, you know, guys going there, Keegan talks about going there Kevin Tway. You'll see it the woods JT and Ricky put up pictures from their when they're celebrating the weekly. Yeah. So I was actually surprised that she hadn't seen him around more TGI has an office right there, his his foundation and his people of his people. So I do think he's there with some regularity, but what he's doing back in the kitchen, you knows, let's go to a ranking real quick from one to ten. What are you. Giving the woods? Jupiter, I'm I'm hauling in at a seven. And while that's zest seem hide, you just a little high. Well, let me walk you through it. Honestly, I, I like the place, especially if I'm not paying. If if we're on the company dime, maybe that could be a slight demerits for for cost. The main, you know, Florida just doesn't do it for me, to be honest with you, the strip mall thing, it takes away some of the character once you're in the place into it, the TV thing it, it did a pretty good job at being what it is, which is an upscale sports bar. You go to watch the game. You're gonna have to drinks there. You're not gonna into it. You're not gonna. Have you're not gonna have seven bud lights at this place. It's not really one of those watering hole could. Maybe we will next time, but I'll say this. I was thinking six out of ten and you not only have talked me into it, but the allure that you could see, you know, forgo fans that you could see tiger. Woods, you could see JT show up Ricky show up for goal fans? Yeah, it's probably seven hundred. Ten. All right. Before we close, let's talk about the two courses, non Jupiter. They've talked about enough Jupiter, non-jewish courses that we played in the past couple of weeks. It's just so nice when you know us being New York based, it's hard to play that much regular golf. We talk about it all the time. Think about it all the time. We don't always get to play that much for each came off golf weekends. Yeah. You played golf at rich homie, harvest farms, rich harvest, farm west of Chicago, Illinois. They hosted the d. won championships there a couple years ago. I had heard about this place, but I had not heard of frigging bizarre it was and you you'd think it's a bizarre place. It's. Well, let's start with the good the the golf course is really good. It can tip out at this midwestern brawny seventy eight hundred yards. I think see can play this thing all the way back. We luckily were not doing that. Is there for a a charity function and we played it more like sixty eight hundred. It was thirty eight thirty nine degrees. When we teed off a little bit of rain a little wet, it's built a nineteen hundred acres is a lot. I don't know what that. Well. I think Marian is on maybe seventy five acres. This is on flights two thousand. Okay. So there you go context yet you need, you really need a golf cart to traverse this place, and it was good. That's cool variety holes. But it's really just this one guy. Jerry rich invented, the stock ticker, the rich, homie. The stock ticker really well names. Jerry rich because he's now a billionaire. So every time. You see, you know that NASDAQ stock cruising around technology. It's like two cents. Every time that happens. We had fifty players the day that we were there. They said that was a super super busy day for this course. It's really just this guy's personal golf course that's gets maintained by a you don't. We level drowns crew team? Yeah. The locker room is is really cool. It's apparently supposed to give off a gust of vibes. And I suppose you'll be the one to to tell and Wayne on Jackson's a member out there. He apparently goes hunting out there in the winter, so there there's all these little details. The weird is just that it's it's at the end of the day. If you're joining this club, you're joining one guy's personal club joining part of a collective. You are way out side Chicago, this quiet place. By the time we finished up our dinner. We were leaving. It was. Dark. There's there's literally dozens of buildings on property here and there's maybe a half dozen employees still. They're spread out throughout the whole place. It's just it gets a little creepy gets little. There's a man cave in one of the buildings where you know, there's this whole memorabilia setup and there's I was going down to go to the just find the restroom in the dark, and there's this mannequin setup playing pool against pool table with this, and there's just euro in this man Cologne in the dark mannequin. And at that now he's like. Now he's like, all right. I've had a great day. I'm out, geez. Did you go to the bathroom? I went to the bathroom. I ran upstairs for you. That is. Okay. So that's weird. That's waiting for you to get too. That's my rich harvest experience. You went to Denver? Yeah, I went to Colorado for buddies trip. Play at one course the entire time, three different rounds, Colorado golf club, and I'm not one to always like come away hyperbolic in my ratings on places. I think the greatest experience I've ever had playing golf was at Pinehurst. This one was was up there though, like it really was granted private club and I'm not a member. So you know, generally you get treated so well anywhere you go, but the people there were great and I just kinda wanna read what the golf course because it's at elevation and never played elevations before we only played at like sixty five hundred yards, which is not that long now, especially at mocking it because you hit the ball far. I went to like a driver fitting with you a couple of weeks ago. You can fly it shut out title list to eighty at sea level at sea level. So more so I felt it. The elevation change with irons. You know, it's not like I'm trying to dial in my driver to only go certain distance like your your. But definitely what I was told is that if you compress the ball, you will hit a one iron. Further, fifteen percent is generally what people say. So it was it was that Debbie came true, but basically just the the various challenges of a bunch of three hundred and eighty yard holes. Yeah, they don't have to be long to challenge. You just have the right things in place at two hundred seventy five yards at three hundred yards at two hundred sixty yards to make it difficult for every single player in your group. I hit the ball good ways. One of my buddies was not hitting driver. He was hitting the ball. He was hitting five iron four iron off the tee, and there are places where you can get in trouble at that length. And we were playing with another with our hosts who is older than all of us by factor of to. And so he's not hitting the ball as far as. Us, but there are places where he could get in trouble. So basically like the design of that place does not reward any type of player and it does not punish any type of player it specifically punishes and rewards people that are going and keeping it straight. And so is it tight, were there? No, it was not tight, but where turned from fairway to rough to trash. So to say is basically like really wispy, but like beaten down and dried out grass. Like I basically it was more so you type stuff. It was fescue, but like dried out, hard land so that you're not getting your iron under the ball, you kind of spanking it off of that. So it is, you know, you can play from there. It is not going to penalize you to the point that you are taking a drop, but it will penalize you the point where you're not gonna be able to get your ball to stop. And so I played it prior to what it was called. The. Paintbrush Invitatinal college event or Cal and Oregon and Wyoming were playing and false fall of end. They had cranked up the greens. Probably the fastest greens I played on this year. It's that made the course you've been a little bit more difficult? Yes. All of that is to say that when the member told me that the difference between his handicap at his southern Florida club and his handicap in Colorado is about four strokes. This one was harder. This one was harder. Interesting, but played at the same same yardage and actually played at elevation more difficult. So that was just one of the better Gulf experiences I've ever had because you kind of went into it thinking while I'm gonna mash the ball in it just really came down to you choosing the right club to hit the right varying distances. And every time I pulled out driver, I knew, hey, you could be in trouble here hitting from some Henry type of thick Bush or some fescue or you competing from the fairway all comes down to how you've put the damn club face on. The Gulf ball I've seen where you had driver would imagine fairway was only a small part of the equation. You know, the timing of this is is curious actually because has looked back in my career as a professional golfer, where it all came to a close was about two years ago in October playing at sun river. I believe it was called in Utah. Saint George, Utah area. We'll mountain Gulf first stage of q school did not make it through this is the the home course of one's Zach Blair. I haven't really played much competitive golf since then. A recently haven't been playing on the all that much golf period, but but in light of the drop zone, Shannon is video show being sponsored by goslings. We are headed right after thanksgiving down to Bermuda where we've been awarded a spot in the goslings invitational. So this is a, this is a professional Gulf of them. It is. Not exclusively professional, but it is professional who are, who are the big names that played last year, some ams, one of the guys that was in it last year. He didn't end up winning, but was Matt party alley. My boy from Massachusetts, who was the mid AM champion played at the master's, put at the US open USM at cetera. I think this is a really good step for you because you and I, I say, we don't think the caddy should ever say. We think if the player player can say we the caddy cannot say we, but you played in a local qualifier for the US open shots Seventy-seven. Yup. Dan ended up being six strokes shot. It was not a relevant score on the day, prepare very well. There was there was next to no preparation on. Of course, we actually know really, really well. And the unfortunate part is that that was kind of like your one shot and it's kind of like going zero to one hundred like trying to qualify for the US open have played a lot of Gulf. This is somewhere in between and the qualification is out of it. You're going to get four rounds, not just one for houses so much golf. There's nowhere to hide in four hundred seventy two holes of stroke play. No, but you can say that about a lot of the people in the field and that will be true for everyone. It'll be true for everyone and there's a little preparation involved here. I've played every golf course that we're going to play there yet. Nothing. I remember it over to golf courses in Bermuda. I've never been to Bermuda. Shawn's been there. Yeah, she's been scouting it. He's been. I didn't know. I was a scouting mission at the time prepping mentally. There are going to be some players there that are more social players. We will be pure competitive mode, and the goslings is going to be flowing at night, so managing. So let the goslings in general for sponsoring. But yeah, gin consumption and recovery is I think going to be an important part of this and also just hoping that we get a little more warm weather between now and then in New York. So we can do little training. I'm fired up hoping that we're going to get down a bunch to take advantage of the TRU spec. Studio that is in the the base of our Manhattan offices here. Yeah, we got simulators there. A lot of data. Lots of data is important for clubbing in coming to terms with the fact that I don't hit eight iron. The distance that I used to haul it. I do in my mind. Oh, that's not good at all yet. But see, it's important to be honest with ourselves here and this is going to be a part of it is like, all right, let's let's dial in our real discs Escude out. Not our glory distances, you know not. Hey, I'm not trying to play here. Can max out eight iron at one hundred ninety yards. I can't do that. No one DJ Cam DJ you can't. I cannot do how many people can cannot. So yeah, we'll we'll have a bunch of prep will build some content around preparation for this, but I actually am super excited. I don't want to embarrass myself. So wanna play some golf between now and then well. That's up to us. Thanks for listening. We talked far too much about our own Gulf game, but I know that's once in awhile, intrigue and other people, but stay tuned for the Gazans invitation because you're gonna go and you can say that we will going low. You're going somewhere.

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Bryson DeChambeau is changing golf

GOLF.com Podcast

26:22 min | 3 months ago

Bryson DeChambeau is changing golf

"There's a bit of a reckoning happening on the PJ tour, and it has everything to do with Brayson Shambo since we came on the air, he's probably gained. A pound added another mph to his bowl speed. The twenty six year old is known for many things in golf, but right now he's known as Golf's version of the hulk minus all the anger. Numbers that we've never really seen on the PGA tour consistently but Bryce into Shambo, just on this little journey. Bryson is big I. Put my hands on the shoulders last week. Just because he's looks like a different person, he intends to get bigger, I think. He said he gained two shirt sizes, breakdown everything that means for him tour and the game of golf. Right here on the drop zone. Already folks, this is Shaun sock. It is the end of June with had the PGA tour back for three weeks now and Bryce into. Shambo has been going about his business. Since the return golf with three straight top ten finishes, he was doing exactly that prior to the corona virus shutdown with three straight top five finishes. So bryson's been hot. But in the scope of bryce career, this is all to recent so if you will take a long with me, I'm going to remind you of everything that Bryson is and has been as a golfer. Remember this is the man with single length golf clubs. The Guy who believes in one swing on one plane of action as much as some people wanna point out that there are flaws in his methodology or his various scientific references. He sees Gulf with an extra dimension that most people just don't well. This is derived n golf at Spin Loft, and it's relative coefficient of friction, kinetic friction and static Coefficient of friction, essentially the amount of resistance soon their law. It's the amount of resistance in motion between two objects and I was willing to try it, and take a leap of faith in that, and we found that it actually did work, and we just kept improving in overtime. A sunny day he's out there spraying water on his club face and the Gulf Ball said he could simulate what might happen during different conditions. Think about his launch monitor. It incorporates hourly updates on humidity and barometric pressure. You don't really see a lot of people doing that, but if his eight iron is going to fly to yards shorter in Connecticut last week than it will do in Detroit this week. He wants to know exactly why. To me. There has to be a threshold or peak to speed and distance as far as at some point, it becomes kind of counter counterproductive. And it seems like maybe that one ninety range is maybe work starts to tip as far as the faster swinging that little bit off. Your version becomes greater. So figuring out. Where is that peak? And I think that's kind of what rice exploring. Now think about what Kevin Nas said last year. No said that Bryson uses a stiff meter from off the green. Now a stint meter you use that to measure green speeds Bryson is using it on the fairways that run up to Greens on the fringes that around the Greens. He needs to get a number in his head as to what parts will do from the fringe or the fairway. That's something that nobody does. And people that love that madness. They really love it. I'm one of those people but people that hate it. Oh my gosh, do they hate it? They see brazen. Hit a bad shot and he blamed some outside condition. They really really hate it. But love him or hate him. All of this is to say that Bryson to Shambo is a chaser. He loves the chase the chase for perfection, the chase for zero mistakes. The chase eighteen birdies, no bogeys. He's after it. Now recently, that chase has meant getting large, really big. Way bigger than any of US imagined when he first started talking about it last year. And that's when this whole thing started. October of last year, nine months ago to Shambo said to the world quote I'm going to come back next year and look like a different person. You're going to see some pretty big changes in my body, which is going to be a good thing going to be hitting it a lot further. Over the course of twenty nineteen. To Shambo, game twenty five pounds casually twenty five pounds you went and spent the fall, hunkered down the Bahamas, working out like a fiend one and a half times a day. He would say. That's exactly where my co host Dylan to chair caught up with him in December. Now two months removed from that quote. He was at the hero world challenge an pay close attention to what Bryson and said to. Dylan, MRS seven months ago. It's pretty clear that he was chasing. After something then workouts. What are you? Can, see the on instagram. Nine of your literally. Out. That's. Up there insisted little small stuff that I've done so much in the background worked. Pretty much on average one and a half times a day for at least an hour hour each time I go each session I go. What's your focus? So lot of core core. Back I was able to work really really hard to. Fix It come back from working out in the proper way making sure that I can function through the full range of motion work with Gregg Roscoff. S in Denver and he's he's making sure that I can function for range of motion of being able to tolerate any amount of force It's going into each and every position so I, going to these super extreme position rotation collection in color. Everything I'll train. Each and every aspect of it to make sure that everything's working good, and when something gives out or something that work in I will train that to tolerate a higher level force until I flush essentially flush out of the system, and now that we look back on is a pretty telling piece of content. In December after brazened show had gained a ton of weight a ton of muscle, he was looking to gain even more. During the coronavirus Bryson continued bulking up. He used it as an asset time off. He worked out twice a day. He was entertaining. Fans with these live streams on twitch of how hard and how far he can hit the Gulf Ball. I gotta get to that to a five. Come on. You Pussy! To a one thousand. What's wild is in those videos. Bryson takes on his hulk easiest nature. He's pacing back and forth his arms out flexed. He so bulked up in the moment. There's drake blasting in the background. The, man is trying to break Gulf. Jambos tee shot in the air a long time right down center. Driving so well, that was his fairway. Hundred and eighty seven. Hundred, ninety two mile an hour. and. It's absolutely absurd. He's trying to break the mold of Gulf from what it looks like. He's broken what he looks like. Brazen now, he says in total. He has added about forty pounds to his golfing frame four zero. He said that he consumed between five and six protein shakes a day during the shutdown. And now he's trying to use all that mass to win him a bunch of golf tournaments. Try and perfect this game. In, honestly, the results have been really good thus far. So with that enough of my explanation of Bryson's time to bring in our resident brazen to Shambo expert. That is Luke Curtin. He's our instruction editor at Golf magazine and Golf Dot. Com Luke spent the last weekend tracking to Shambo. All over the travelers championship. Luke Hauer things for you in Connecticut. All Things considered them a good Stephanie Weird vibe out there with everything going on, but you know I was happy to be back out there on the road it's it's something special about hearing a pg toll player, especially one who's going off the distance as much as someone like Bryson Rory O. Dj. The crock thunder that accompany the accompanies that bowl coming up the club faces something that I'll never get tied of hearing at something I definitely found myself missing when I was knocked away in. In Quarantine I get it all right so in terms of Bryson to Shamba. What did you set out to see? What was your mission? What did you want to learn from him? In Connecticut I really wanted to just get a firsthand look of drizin. I've been truck it. I've just been sort of fascinated by the guy from the second. He came out on. Toy covid his first event when he was a professional I was at USA, today at the time down the heritage and. I I. He's guilty ups and downs. People were fascinated by him, and then people thought he was a bit much and stocks hit a weird low towards the end the last year, and then he kind of decided he was going to bulk up and get really strong, because he thought that this was where the two things, actually, he said Hey, he was sort of feeling like he was stagnating a his game, and let's bet that he's almost like a little bored with his game. You needed to mix things up and be because he thought this is Gulf. This is how you crack. The Code Engulf and I think that one thing that people tend to over with Bryson is. When he sets his mind to something when he looks at the problem is extremely binary in the way he solves that problem. He doesn't cabinet looks like he doesn't care what people think. It doesn't care about any of this extraneous stuff that we think about all the time. He thinks about solving the problem and he almost always does. That's what trickled, suggests, and so when he sets out to take a look at a problem like distance in golf. How do I get more of it? He solves the problem. It comes back forty pounds heavier swinging out. swingers difference I just basically wanted to see in person. I wanted to see what it looks like in the flash. All Right? Let's pause from Luke for one second for a message about Roman. Anyone who has dealt with erectile dysfunction knows how awkward it can be talk about it in person. Luckily, there's a simple convenient solution to get the treatment. You need without ever leaving the couch and honestly that last little clause is the important one for me. It's great to not have to go out and not have to leave the couch chasing around doctors appointments on phone calls and all types of clinics. Do it all from your home. That is honestly it's a modern world. 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Looking, asking questions about this guy is the Toke among pj toll players and to see him just go hotter and hotter and hotter out. Any eventually got two hundred miles. An hour tweeted out a picture of it, and it was just it was pretty amazing. Not just the velocity with which the ball is going, but frankly it's also not curving that much. Okay so that was kind of one of my questions is like that two hundred mile per hour? Threshold is one that he continues to mention but like when he reaches that is the ball spraying? You said that all form kind of goes out of the out of the window, but like what is it looked like are? Is it successful? Yeah, so his. Basically the only thing his only thing that he won't change is this He's very concerned with range of motion stuff so basically he wants to put his arms specifically into a place where they cop rotate anymore. That's why when you look at him. Setup is like a really straight and it's kind of allied with a club head. As long as he does dot, he's good. And so what that allows them to do is it stops become face rotating, basically, because OB- locked in a position that it's always gonna be it so he doesn't have a swing like Bubba Watson, which does a lot of release their lot of wrists in that move, and that's why to make it work. He was hitting forty yard high hooks fifty yard high cuts drizin. You know it was drawing fifteen yards, but when you're hitting a shop that's carrying three hundred and sixty something yards, two hundred mile speed. It's remarkable. How straight as and that's actually something that Justin Thomas had awesome about on the range, he said. Said I just I supposed. It's not covering more on I. Think was his exact quote. And that to me is what makes me think that this may be a real some lasting positive abrasive that it's very much in control. Okay? Nice so I. Mean I think one of the things that's most under appreciated about this and you it a little bit is that his swing is different. Now you know twenty twenty bryson swing is different than the twenty nineteen Bryson swing. So can you kind of break down? What is different about his action right now? Yeah, so one of hundred teachers and your man crush on Chris come. tastic God and a great Gulf coach has been brought in as a swing consultant, and so he's got this team around him, so just wanted to give him a out, and basically he's been consciously trying to introduce more movement will momentum into his Gulf saying so If you look at his swing from, say when you go out until it was very stationery, right like he had a very narrow staw, his body was pretty up and down and he was focusing. Focusing on very much keeping that sort of fixture of his body, and just ton within it, his arms would do the same. He wasn't going out hard. It was very structured. Was You look at him now? He's got more up. It tell that setup. He's got a wider starts. You see him when he's really going. After he sort of grabbing re gripping, and he kinda presses into the ground, and then you could send chance. It's intense and he starts breathing heavy. And one thing he does is push into the ground with his left foot, and starts, and dot gives him a kind of a counter. Push the opposite direction because he's trying to move his, Ma is body. Away from the target to load up more because he's loading at back and then he wants to it through. This is stuff you didn't do before. We consider other players golf swings, but It was very unconcerned with up until he started. Gaining distance and that's been the big thing, and so you're pretty close with Chris. Cuomo Bryson's instructor. Has He talked to you much about like what their goal in mind is like? Is there a goal or is it just kind of incremental gains in distance in short success stories? I ost actually both Chris on Bryson on this earlier in the week and I. It's like it's their goal. They're looking and goal for this like we back and they said No. No, we'll just GONNA. Keep going would just gonNA. Keep guessing foster and foster on until it becomes too much of a physical toll was Bryson's exotic woods so if he starts hunting, he's stopping. I reckon were like pretty much at the CNN. He his goals. that he wants to get to. To a five speed! Two, hundred and five miles speed so right now when he really cracks, he can kind of talk shit, but he wants to try to solidify that, and then he wants to reach hundred and ninety five miles an hour ball speed in competition. Yes, it yet this season he's gotten to. Know one nineteenth, but obviously when you've got bounce Ryan, trees left and tournament. You've just. Naturally, not going to swing. Control, but he wants to get that up to ninety five and I reckon that. He'll probably hit those targets and I bet he'll. He'll stop Taylor top. All right, let's pause from Luke one final time for message from draft Kings Thinking about brazen to Shambo folks. He's been a great asset to anyone plane draftkings right now. The guy was a machine before the shutdown and he's picked up right where he left off, so think about Bryce in this week at the rocket mortgage in Detroit because we have another full week in of Gulf ahead of us, and even though the trophy is reserved. Reserved for the winter. The big cash prizes don't have to be just for the winner on the PGA tour. You and I can get involved so to add to. The excitement draftkings the leader in daily fantasy sports is putting you in me in the center of the action with a free shot at over one million dollars in total prizes with your first deposit. So, what do you need to do Sean? I'm so glad you asked. Just download the draft kings APP right now use code deasy during sign up this week Dr. King's putting us in the action, free shot again at over one million dollars in total prizes. That's code easy, and you can get a free shot over one million dollars in total prizes, only draftkings. That's a minimum of five dollar deposit required eligibility restrictions apply see draftkings dot com for details. And now back to Luke Kuhn. mean. I. Don't think Bryson really needs the approval of his. PGA Tour peers, but like he played the first two rounds this past week with Phil Mickelson and you could see Phil. I'm camera. Saying that's nasty like some nasty distance and they're all kind of amazed at Brooks. Koepka is impressed by rory. mcilroy is amazed at it. Do you think Brayson? Feeds off of the relative amazement from his peers that he might be doing something that. Nobody expected any succeeding in it. yeah, I. Do I think Bryceson I. Think people get motivated by intangible things all the time I always think about rory. In this instance well, yeah, I think rose the kind of guy who kind of needs to go Mano Ramana I think that's when he plays his best goal. When People Oncho that Rory mcilroy is the best all when Patrick breed is staring at him. I think that's what we see Roy Up Papa. Little Bit I think Bryson is similar in that way where he it's I. Don't think it's necessarily thing, but he wants to be clear or he wants a clear that he's the smarter of the guys here that he's going to call it the new that he's more competitive than that. He's smaller than you and that he's going to do things that you didn't think of. He not willing to do I. My from my from my seat in the House I think that is a motivating factor for him, and I think it's a good one, frankly because I think that it's something that keeps him and Jarvis and learning and pushing himself now Bryson has gone on the record, and and said that he's not changing his game for any particular golf. Course you know some people will change their game so that they can compete withdraw a right to left ball flight at Augusta national, but Bryson is trying to. You know he's trying to conquer Gulf at large. It doesn't matter what course he's playing and basically on the PGA tour, the bottom line is in order to conquer golf. You've gotta hit the ball. Long Way you need to carry it further in hit, you know. Carry distance north of three hundred yards, most of the time to have sustained success, so I guess to explain this one last time for people. People Can you explain the seventeenth hole at TPC River Highlands, and why? That was a talking point with Brian this week? Yeah, so it was of the practice. Round owes four hours following them along, and it's a dogleg right full hundred something Yod, powerful water ride similar to the similar to that Bay Hill, five sort of horseshoes around the water. That's it's sort of a similar structure that the whole. And Bryson thought it'd be fun basically to just try to hit driver. It was like a research project on, and he hit like four or five golf balls and he cleared. Fluid three hundred and sixty yards at one point really not at it, and it just carried. The entire water finished on dry land, didn't hit degree, but left himself a really dicey pitch and He's been very he. He said I'm not GonNa do this and competition. Simply because the second shot will be too hot, you know and and often the wind is usually gusting in an unfavourable direction, but the fact that he was able, and frankly it's in play right if the winds if the windows is shaping in a good direction for that day, he could feasibly hit something three sixty up around the green which is still nothing to think about and. When you look at that Gulf whole and It's pretty clear that there is an inherent advantage to just hitting it further carrying the ball further. It's not exactly unique on the PGA tour like there are a number of Gulf holes. We saw Devon Johnson do it in a playoff event a couple years ago. INST- against Jordan Spieth, where you take a different line off the tee because you can hit the ball further in the air, and so I guess when you think about that. If, you hit the ball fifteen yards further in the air, then most of the rest of the field and you create those tiny advantages like there is one hundred percent a method to the madness. Right like Bryson is probably chasing the right thing. You know honestly I think that when it comes to Bryson that he is going to change golf in in some way, I think basically I'd say putting out in three ways I shown. I'd love to hear thoughts in this. Do like the first way. Is that Bryson bulk stop. Gains a bunch of speed. Gets himself. Injured is never quite the same, and he's a cautionary tale. Right? That's that's one potentially when that's something that you hear going on a lot about on social media and other ways that he folks up gains, a bunch of speed dominates for a while, and everybody else is like dom. This is the template I'm GONNA bulk up. And then think the third way is that Bryson bulks up starts dominating. Other guys realize it stopped bulking up and it becomes like a home run. For a bit, and then the toll says this recall guys. Guys Jonah aim for the green on formed into the Arpaio for like this becomes a joke and new. See the pendulum, and and let me back up for a second and say that has a history of doing. This has a history of tiger proof golf courses of changing to make sure one play doesn't become too dominant to hard needs to be forced usually, but they will do eventually and I think that if we get into a situation. Bryson leads this charge of guys bulking up and four. How whole on drivers all the time we'll see the rough start getting longer, the PGA tour, and the Greenstock getting firmer and trees, popping up in weird places and I think that I just don't think that. How it was with being big as an outline is going to be the reality of this thing, I think he will influence other people in some way shape. Okay, then last question, if Bryce into Shambo changes Gulf of changes the way the PGA tour. Acts and looks and maybe that trickles down to the amateur, game. Do. You think that that is good for the game. Do you think by and large that that is a net benefit for the game of Golf So for Bryson, absolutely Bryson should continue consent. Continue doing this I i. think gets a world number-one quite frankly with this I would be surprised. A major I think that he is following the correct path on the tour as it's currently just constructed for the reasons you set, it's such a huge advantage to hit it further. I think that I'm an optimistic guy by nature, and I think that this being a catalyst for. For for making golf courses on a weekend week out basis, a little tougher is a good thing. Frankly I like me a good tough USO. Ben and I won't I. Don't think it's in the spirit of the game to a drive within an eighty yard gap with rough and fairway, being almost indistinguishable I. Just I think that if this is a catalyst to actually help, swing the pendulum back in direction where it's all about. Hitting in the raw frothy, a penalty in itself I think would be a good thing. It's a it's obviously an indirect. It's it's an indirect. What is good for golf, but I do think if that happens. That would be good for Gulf long-term. We'd go from bracing scientists to Bryson the catalysts. I kind of like Oh that sounds. Nice ring. All right well. Thank you to luke. We can leave it at that folks. Into Shambo Salad play continued this weekend. Even though didn't really contend throughout the week there, he was on the weekend, finishing in the top ten yet again, his sixth straight top ten on the PGA tour. So. Love it or hate it. The results are good right now. Really good. That's it for this week's show. We will see you in.

Cuomo Bryson Gulf Bryson Rory O. golf Shambo Brayson Shambo Bryce twenty twenty bryson Gulf Ball Detroit Connecticut Luke Chris Coma Greens Gulf Ball Shaun sock Luke Curtin Spin Loft Golf magazine