18 Episode results for "Ginny"
Episode 18 - Modern Folklore #3
"Hello everyone. Logan. I'm Lindsay and welcome to folklore on the rocks. Yeah. We're really glad we could be back here with you gonna we're gonna share some modern folklore this time around, and we got some good stories picked out, isn't that? Right leads. We certainly do. But first of all we wanted to kind of give an announcement. Yeah. We have emerged show. Yes. I. So cool. There's really some cool stuff on there. The t shirts are sweet, I'm I'm really partial to the beach towel. Random, but it's funny. Basically, we did it with the site threatless dot com. So the address for the site is just book more on the rocks dot threatless dot com. And the sizing is normal threatless. Sizing of you've bought stuff from them before you'll kind of have a decent idea of what they have. But there's also a sizing right on our shop and everything basically we have three different designs on their. We have our main normal logo. But without the black and red Kranji background. It's just the logo it self. We have our logo, but with blood splutter on it instead of black grunge, and then we have our normal logo, but with black and red grunge behind it. So that kinda can stand out on lighter colors. So the first two are available on like black start graze in reds and the last one is on White's and light grace some for everybody. Yeah. Exactly kinda give variety. You can pick one. Like, if something is there that you want just let me know. And I'll see what I can do. But as for like actual merch stuff, we have shirts, tanks sweat shirts. Hoodies mugs water-bottles phone cases. And those are just I phones in galaxies. But it's bunch of versions of those. We have some bags like dross, drawstring ones or beach bags, and then we've got some notebooks in some like, local set beach towels is really cool that they can put all that together. Yeah. It's really neat. Yeah. Hopefully works out fine. If you guys encounter problems, please let me know. But as of now, it's officially launched which we're really excited about because it's been, you know, a longtime. Yeah. Yeah. We've been promising a little bit a little while it's taking. I kind of our things together here. But we're getting there. And with Abby we also have discounts the shop for our patrons on patriotic. So if you become a patron, my few those tiers have a discount to that shop. So if you're interested, you know, maybe check out our patriots site too. And see if that can get you a little bit of a discount. We are always looking really up to you. We're always looking for ways to say thank you to our patrons really something that we really appreciate. It's such a cool thing to do to find something to really want to support. And I know that it's maybe not everyone wants to or maybe not everyone can. But those that do we really appreciate it. Absolutely. We really really do in. So check that out. And then I think we now that we've made our official announcement. We can move into our cocktail for tonight perfect. So tonight, we kind of have a classic cocktail for you, which is the old fashioned. This this one is an old favorite of mine. It's. It's one of those ones might my first to alcohols that I learned to like where rum and whiskey into like, and yeah, you have to kind of acquire the tastes definitely. And well there comes a time in every young man's life that if he's going to go drink and drinking establishments. He's gotta know what to order all have that dilemma. Yeah. I drinking this league gone kid, and you're like. Let me order this at this place. And then you get it. And you hate it. You know, like, well, it just spent ten bucks on this drink that is terrible. Or you're gonna order till you have no idea how it's made. Then they ask you a bunch of questions about it. And you're like. I don't know. Give me a picture. Yeah. So the old fashioned. That's an that's an early one that I learned to order it. I and a explored it and a couple bars it's one that while it's a simple drink. It's easy to do. It. Not quite right on 'em. People are extremely opinionated about this. Cocktail thumb are exceptional Piris and some kind of like to experimental little bit. But the weird thing is is that almost every recipe. I find differs in some little way. So what's the recipe were using tonight? So tonight, we are using this. We're doing one sugar cube. We are doing two of ri- or bourbon, whiskey in general where using maker's Mark which is Kentucky bourbon. Easy to find. It's probably in every liquor store. It's delicious. Well, not probably not every. But here we actually have it in Utah amazing. Two to three dashes of Inkster bidders, some people like to do the original ones some people like the orange ones or combo up to you. As of water, and garnish which is an orange pill. So basically to make this because it's it's a little bit of a process a ritual to him difficulty in the cocktail yet. There is some preparation involved. Just pour stuff in stirred in your good, basically. So here's here is as you say the ritual. See your sugar to your glass, usually like an old fashioned glass. That's therefore, and then you add in the bidders. And then just enough water to kind of wet it down the waters only there to just help the bidders dissolve the ship KOTA opened up a little bit. Yeah. You want to dissolve the sugar in completely. You don't wanna just ever dump the sugar into the complete drink idiots to be there. First some recipe say to kinda just coat the glass with the sugar mixture chagrin bidders mixture, if you are using Michika cube, you're going to want to kind of crush it. And then muddle it up into the liquid so that it dissolves a few people kinda cut corners a little bit just by using simple syrup, which is essentially water. Water water. Yeah. Put it is an American faith. Whatever floats about you know, whatever's easiest for you if you wanted to do that if he wanted to do it the original way, that's that's fun. It is at Middle East funded crusher sugar keep up really if you've got your your muddling device from your Mojo's. This is a this is a good opportunity to pull out the Mudler once again, and and really get your your money's worth more than. Yes. Many things can be muddled in this world to be determined. And have the right attitude. So just kind of experiment with it. And see what you like. I mean at the end of the day. What do you end up with a whole bunch of whiskey that you've drunk so all in all those are the good experiments a great time. Then when you got your sugar talk coating your glass, you're gonna want to add in a large ice cube or two large is better because they end up melting more slowly bonus points, if it's formed into something fun. Yes. Like, a death star star cool Yoda makes it very good ice cube. If you can get the. Yes. I personally have a skull and crossbones trae of execute perfect, which is fun. Probably not great this drink. But anyway. Was going to say it has like holes in between the bones, and yes, it's a surface area. Yeah. Yeah. But essentially you put in ice cubes than you pour in the whiskey, and you stir over Stor don't wanna under stir. Scally? Amount just to get that sugar Inc. And then you're going to take the orange peel that you've just have used appeal to peel off the outside of an orange, and you're going to twist it over your class of eating the oil from the orange into your drink. Some people also kind of rub the peel over the rim of the glass kind of a little bit of extra flavor if you want and then just plop it into your drink, and the you are done. Some people add cherries as well. As garnish do not model your Terry's known at much to drink. It's probably gonna make it worse. You just get chewy cherry mess at the bottom. So make them tell we've made them. It was fun. What's nice about it is that it's a it's a nice dark colored liquor. You know, concoction that that you can walk around at a cocktail party. And it doesn't have. It's not. It's not strawberry Dachary is what I mean to say. But it tastes delicious. He knows it. Your cool tastes good. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a win win, really? And it's and like you said ritualistic, which is fun. It's it's fun to create something that you then imbibe if. It's part of a whole ensemble. If your belt matches your shoes, and you're holding an old fashioned. I think you've got some things figured out. Definitely right. Yeah. So everyone's got their drink of choice. And you know, if it strawberry decorates, really your thing more power to you. But. We've got old fashioned tonight and some stories to share. So we have two tales for tonight's. The reason why is one is a little bit longer than normal. So you should have the same length of an episode. It's not just that much time of us chatting and chatting away, rob ably. We don't know because it hasn't happened yet. We could be here. All we'll find out. But our first story is called the forest through the trees in its by tristen Lintz who you have heard their name on our show before because they did our previous story which was the face game. I was a good one. This is a was really good. I like to and their their username is dischord underscore and underscored dine on read it if you wanna look up additional stories from them, but we'll also include links to both of these stories on our show notes. So let's go. It really wasn't awful time to get a flat tire on one hand. It was past midnight. I'd been coming home from party thrown by co worker that lived on the other side of town on the other hand, I decided to take the back roads because I hated driving on the freeway my own unwillingness to face my fears had brought me there there weren't even any streetlights nearby. I hadn't even seen one for five minutes when I heard the pop and the release of air only the dim moon provided light now I've as far away from a mechanic as you can get I pushed pencils at an office. The most technical thing, I know how to do was open electrical box still I had read about changing tyre somewhere along time ago. I had a vague inkling of how to do it. But not much more than that the trees on either side of the road rustled in the breeze. I quick into my pace I had seen too many horror movies in my haste. The Jacka was removing for my trunk somehow slipped out of my hand. Ends and tumbled down the embankment next to the road. Groaning. I carefully went after it trying to keep one hand on the weeds to help me down. I almost slipped and tumbled a few times but managed to regain my footing. The slope was about eight feet down pulling out my phone. I scan the flashlight around looking for the Jack the beam glinted off something lying in the grass. I squinted. It certainly wasn't the Jack that was made out of metal bending down. I picked it up and brought the light to it. It was a fish skeleton and not in pieces either. It looked like something you would see sticking out of a garbage candidate and old cartoon what was this doing on the side of the road had someone dumped their trashier and left. I became aware of how silent it was the breeze had stopped. I looked up studying the trees carefully they were moving to be sure. But they looked off. They waved side to side. So slowly, it was almost undetectable there. Was something very fluid to their movements almost as if beyond the first wall of pines, I noticed a dark shape floating above the trees, it was high off the ground slipping smoothly between the trunks, they blocked out of my view. Most of what it was. But I certainly wasn't going to stick around and find out I turned my back and began frantically combing, the grass for the Jack half of panic minute later. My light glinted off something metal lying in the grass scooping it I world around and stopped in my tracks. Their three yards off the ground peeking out from between two trees was a golden fish. It looked at least ten feet long and four or five feet wide. It's black lifeless eyes bore into me slipping. I let it on my back in the grass staring up. The thing dominating the darkness, then with one quick flick of its tail it turned and swam away into the trees again floating gracefully between the trunks as if it was under water. There was a. Thickness in the air. Then it seemed to come out of nowhere. A pressurized nauseating feeling that wrapped me up at sickly embrace I stumbled to my feet and furtively pod at the grass trying to get a hold. So I could climb back to the embankment get out of there. Suddenly a bright light erupted from behind me casting my shadow out in front. I made one last jump to try to grab hanging we'd near the road, but slipped again and tumbled down to few feet. I had climbed landing at the bottom. I stared. There was a light floating the edge of the tree line bobbing up and down. Slowly, it was almost blindingly bright. I had to put my hands in front of my face after a moment of looking at it. Slowly, it began receding into the trees floating between the trunks much in the same way that the fish had done earlier I- inexplicably found myself getting to my feet and walking toward the treeline following it. It was as if I didn't have any control of my body anymore. My mind suede the feeling in the air, and as I stumbled dreamily forward passing the first wall and taking my first step. Inside. I dropped the Jack, but barely registered that I had done. So the light was about ten feet in front of me and slowly getting farther away. I picked up my pace graduating for my clumsy stumbling to a jerky amble from somewhere below me came squelching noises looking down. I saw the ground was muddy staining my shoes in the cuffs of my pants. I paid little heed as I continued on. I saw the golden fish again floating high above my head it scales. Gleamed in the moonlight that managed to find its way through the canopy the deeper. I got the more of them appeared fish of every imaginable color floating through the air above me, opening and closing their mouths rhythmically. The pressure in the air got worse and the squelching had progressed too frequent splashes. There was no mud below. Now. Only water about a foot deep. It went up to my ankles. The light continued up ahead, although I was gaining on it a dark shape. Stuck up ahead momentarily and caught my attention a wooden rowboat covered an hour. Algae and moss was beached on a rock outcropping. The would look spongy an old one of the ORs was still bolted to the side cracked in about to fall apart. I slipped on something and fell to my knees. The water now nearly coming up to my chin when I did. So my clothes were soaked. And the cloud covering my mind had only gotten worse, I could now think of nothing, but the light the light drove me forward kept me going, even as the water rose past my waist. The fish seemed to be getting closer to the water. Now, they dipped lower almost swarming towards the rapidly deepening pool below me before coming back up. They also seem to be forming some sort of circle rotating in loose fear above me as I slogged forward through the water up ahead. The light had ceased moving it floated above the surface a beacon in the otherwise lightly. See I had stopped touching the bottom long ago. I was now furtively swimming towards it hands. Outstretched a sharp pain erupted in the back of my head. And I felt something went running down my neck. I saw a small. Flow of crimson drifting through the water. I reached up there was a small chunk of flesh missing from my scalp. Pulling my hand away, it was stained red, I let it wash away in the water as I looked up. The golden fish was circling above me a halo of red dripping out from around its mouth opening again at dove down toward new with determination. Crying out. Swam to the right only to feel another sharp pain this time on my arm. I barely had enough time to see its lifeless black eyes stare into my own before diving back up taking a piece of my bicep with it. The fish were swarming now circling above me like vultures watching a dying animal one after another. They dove down slipping between the trees like ghosts only swim back up with a piece of my flesh and stringy globs of blood up ahead. The light suddenly plunged deep into the water feeling another bite attack my neck. I saw it aluminum the water as it dove down hundreds no thousands of picked bodies floated below. Oh, some of them were caught in the branches of submerged trees, others were tangled in the roots. They were little more than grinning, skeletons, bits of cloth and hair still sticking to some of them deep in the water below. There was a great rumbling the fish dove, again a few of them attacking at once. I felt a rushing sensation from down below and barely had time to swim out of the way before they came up. The massive jaws rushed out of the depths coming together. Above the water. The slimy thick skin of whatever creature lurked below me rose up as the jagged spires of teeth Clack together in one empty bite it reverberated over the trees echoing off into the sky above and the water below with a loud splash, like a way all breaching disappeared into the darkness below something. In my mind broke turning back began swimming quickly in the direction, I had come the fish were much less graceful. Now, some of them running into the trees as they pursued bites rain down on my flesh, leaving gaping holes in their wake. The water behind me was a trail of rid scarlet billowing out as I went the pressure began to build into an intense headache, just as I had felt my foot touch solid ground beneath the water, I tried to cry out in relief, but could only manage a horse croak flailed splashing water around me, and my desperate attempt to push myself forward. The water was just reaching waist level when it slowly began to rise again, mumbling curses under my breath. I weekly tried to bat away. Another fishes at bore down open wounds covered by upper torso. Stinging in the salty water, I felt the bottom leave my feet, again, just as I caught sight of my car, somehow impossibly the water was rising in a straight line of a head as if there was an invisible wall, separating the road and the woods beyond. I barely had enough time to gasp in full breath before I went under the water was scraping the fish bellies now and rising fast propelling myself forward. I swam ignoring every bite and snap the came from the things above me at last. I reached the edge of the road. Putting my hands out. I. Finger skimmed wall of water something invisible. Stop them. I kicked at it. With all my might through the watery Hayes, the covered my eyes. I could see my car sitting there pathetically with its flat tire. Like a wounded animal. My lungs began screaming for air. I beat and kicked against the invisible wall, the tide overtook the treetops and continued rising into the night. I thought wildly about the moon being submerged and almost open my mouth to laugh. I turned back around the fish were circling above me, shadowy and grotesque suddenly all at once. They turned and started torpedoing toward me. Mouths open and is staring blankly. Throwing my hands up. I involuntarily opened my mouth to scream water-filled my lungs and burn down my throat. I found myself sinking down down down past the road and into the spot where the forest floor should have been the fish contain. You'd their speed toward me. I felt myself drifting away as clouding over and becoming misty. Suddenly from somewhere above me, a large dark shape came torpedoing out of the gloom. I recognize the spongy skin immediately. The light floated diminutive -ly above it. As it bore down on my pursuers swallowing. Most of them whole the ones that escaped. The first assault were quickly caught as well. A great rumble erupted from the below the water bubbled and boiled around me throwing me this way. And that the bigger fish spiral back down toward the depths slipping into the darkness like it had never been there at all. Then there was a sudden bang and the pressure vanished. I was pulled down the cascading wall of water as bore down the road screaming all the way, I closed my eyes bracing for impact with the road. I landed roughly, but not painfully on the asphalt still scared to open my eyes. I felt the water flow around me as it descended settling down on the road. And the trees, I opened my eyes. The wind was with. Sling to the trees, again, the moonlight shone down on the dry landscape completely devoid of moisture of any kind I ran to the driver's side mirror and inspected myself cuts and welts littered by body dripping down onto the road below. I felt something welling up in my stomach and coughed expelling a large amount of water the pressure returned again. And I swear sweat eventually collapsing before I slipped off. I thought I heard a lo- keen wail some hours later I woke up in the same position. The sun was just rising the tops of the trees groaning. I got to my feet stumbling against the car I spotted the Jack lying on the side of the road almost as if a switch had been flipped. I walked over picking it up by walked back and change the tire. I got into my car and started the engine it wind from moment before turning over the wealth stung and my skin felt dry right before I drove off. I looked back toward the trees. There was something moving on the forest floor just beyond the. Line. I looked back. It was just the wind picking up some debris. Nothing more. It wasn't a fin moving among the leaves. It wasn't right. And we're back. Yeah. That was a fun journey through the trees. Oh, was those is a really unusual tale. I really loved the kind of the phantasm element all of it with the fish up in the trees, and then that the bigger creature monster fish down below in the water rationing that just brought back all of our discussion about sharks, and the the unknown in the depths below water all of the things that I'm the most afraid of. And that's very very scary thing because you have somebody on on flat ground that is suddenly existing in three dimensions the story. I've I had to go back and reread it a couple of times because I was just as confused as the as the protagonist when. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine confused if that was happening to me, there's there's fish of them below them. There's something else below them. But really to me it felt it's something you you've seen a lot of video games when you have to all the way back to the tradition of super. Mario brothers the water level. For me. The great example earthworm Jim took him through the water levels. Such a scary thing. Yes. What it goes? That I really love really the imagery of fish. We have that image of them above you in the water, and they're dead code is. And everything was described. So well in the story, I loved the fish were all different colors and everything. So at first they were like a little bit creepy but beautiful, and then they got even creepy or, but they never stopped magical. They were really otherworldly. And and that was really a fun thing to incorporate in the story that suddenly this character finds themselves not in the realm of something else. But in a completely different place a little pocket of of other worldly conditions. I love the description of suddenly things pressurise and the water sucks up above above the normal water level. Talk about that. Yeah. So my theory is that the main character kind of fell into another dimension totally thought with this pop of pressure, and then suddenly this whole other world. And then we hit the end where he's a begins. You know, this wall of watering can't get to his car. That's just sitting right there. And he has to kind of force his way out of it. And all of that to me is such a that's a dream state thing that either he wasn't conscient- wasn't conscious or in a very dreamlike reality pocket. Yeah. Like, the one that big fit lives in. Yeah. But boy, the just the description of the fish, tearing and swimming away. That's oh God. That's that's such a fish thing to do fish, or you know. They're beautiful. But when they eat they're kind of assholes, they munch, and then they fuck off they go they'll take a bite, and then they'll act like they never took a bite. Through and then come back remorse and then leave again. So true to say, it's really funny when I was listening, you read this story, I'm sitting there, and I'm like, I have this almost book not this exact situation, but very beginning of the story where he first sees this golden fish in the forest, right? I have shirt that is exactly that image of a person standing in a forest with this golden looks like goldfish. I guess, but this golden fish up in the trees and everything and I was like, oh my gosh. I should just became a nightmare. Funny. Little Tien this cool little shirt that I got on that some artists made it's gorgeous. So I got it. And I'm like, wow. This took a whole dark turn. Yeah. And for me it. Yes. It was very scary. And and for boating, but it also had such a a magic element to it for me. It felt like where the wild things are several years ago. I had the opportunity to be in a stage production of of that story quite law about books so much, and we had such a brilliant director who is also a visual artist. And he he the whole sequence when the bedroom turns into a forest and then an ocean tumbles by with private boat. Just for max. When you hear the lines recited enough times you remember as the store? But that I just the kind of picture quality of and the world changed and suddenly everything was different. And that's kind of what had had for me. It's a shame. It turned out to be so malevolent and scary. I liked the big monster. Not it's like grown up max. Yeah. Yeah. It's you know, it's like horse max sailed right into a horror story. Yeah. Nice Munster's max fought to to get out and go back to their normal life. Now. That's a scary story, isn't it? The wood the fight against the weird to get back to normal. No. Thank you. Well, I mean. The giant golden fish in the trees, I guess it's a little weird potentially eating me from below. No, thanks. It's like one of my deepest fears. You know, like that's why I don't like being in water that I can't see what's around me or touch the ground because of that exact thing. Don't know what's down there. And I don't wanna know down there with coming for me, the my well, my my dog my dog and my my last dog, but they had this in common that they're okay with waiting. But as soon as all four feet get off the floor of the water. Neither of these dogs. My poor my current dog blazer, he's a sweet little poodle. But he's not a swimmer. He he'll go right to the water's edge. But he will not get to wear his feet. Don't touch anymore. No. Thank you too. Weird. Smart. As any same person. He's not a fan he can swim. But he is usual. I order businesses to swim straight towards shore or getting out of the water. However, he can Pam I see blazer. I see you. Another thing that I really liked. This was was the light. Kind of willow, the wispy or very much fish. You know, I really liked that aspect of it. Just kind of drawing them deeper in. Not being able to control his actions and stuff. I definitely felt like it was like an angler fish. It was this luring L piece that that doesn't say, you know, what is really waiting for you or give any clue how dangerous it is. And I that's that's a secret thing. I love in nature is feigning weakness to hide strength. That's something that a lot of animals do. And it's a really cool thing. We talked about the anglerfish or the traditional thing of the possum or really for me. The great one is the alligators snapping turtles tongue that looks like a little worm a little pink. You know, just something so delicious on the on the swamp. Swamp floor as its giant hooked moss. Stays open just waiting to snap shut on any fish that. Come by. I really do like that element. And maybe just drawn to thinking that way. This maybe the lights part of the fish or maybe it's. Get something else. And I just love that you're lake. Well, here let me give you an entire list of creatures. The do this exact thing. And I love it because you're so excited by animals. And so this is this is perfect rumination for you. I am curious though. So so with the end with the the big fish kind of it feels like it saves him in a little eighty all the other fish. Yeah. Does it only eat those fish like is he just kind of in the way or is he not because like the skeletons? They talked about right early on. He saw that. Yeah. I just feel like this below this character just entered a completely alien ecosystem. The everything and there's not starved to eat them. But like fish if you dropped some food in the water, they'll they'll pack at it. They'll they'll see what's in clearly there's been numerous victims before him. Yeah. There's all the skeletons. So is it the fish that ate them all and the big one didn't come. Whereas the big one part of it. Or like what how did this come out of this? Yeah. And I'm wondering at this little pocket of high pressure. You know, water and gravity suspension travels around. I wonder if if it's lights just they're stationary if it's like kryptonite on its own that it that police. Yeah. It reminded me a little bit of did you see the movie annihilation, it was based on a book area at ever you. I what I'm not is based on the book annihilation. Area. X was the first book in the series, or is it's a trilogy. Maybe maybe it's called the area trilogy or somebody the first book is called an isolation. You could be right. I listened to it long not long before the movie came out. Anyway, reminded me listen to it. We're reminded me of that story. And it was really just decide that. That nature is a very connection. Very connected thing, and it can change very quickly and easily. So I I'm I started to imagine. Maybe there was a scientific element or another dimension. It felt a little bit like stranger things for a second in in the woods. There's everything seems. But if you look closer there's this door to somewhere else. Will you put you pushed into another dimension sensually and for them? It was like the upside down or whatever. But, but that's that's what this feels like feels like a pocket dimension something that he kind of stumbled into and. Frantically trying to find his about. I'm glad this person got out to tell their tale. I am too. I have to say that when the description of like the scarlet blood is flowing behind him in the water as he swimming past. If there are sharks in this. I am out. Like, technically sharks fish and stuff, and these aren't really described as sharks per se. But I was like no no notice I'm so afraid of so free to sharks. I mean, they are beautiful creatures. And I love to learn about them. But I am scared as hell comes things that can. Yeah. This all reminded me of a D creature. The a classic de creature the stumbling on this creature. What do you do? Yeah. The bullet and some people will call it Boulay, but it's got to to tease at the end e so I prefer to to say Belette, but it's a centrally land shark. It's a quadrupeds the size of know, a big angry rhino and. And it swims around in boroughs and eats. Whatever it finds that's kind of the feel. I got that just the ease of movement that comes with a creature that is adapted to exist in kind of a three dimensional environment. And suddenly you're tossed into that world where it can move completely freely, and you are still limited by gravity and the way that we get around as humans. It's huge disadvantage where it's not even close to the same Plainfield offer. Sarah, we are one hundred percent out of our element. We are. We are eight immediately struggling to survive for more than a few minutes below the surface rate, and they can survive indefinitely assuming they're moving with some of the species, not all sharks have to move. But I digress. But yeah, we it's it's totally foreign environment. Who has we don't belong there? And we are mmediately at a disadvantage, plus all of the creatures that could easily kill us. You know? You know? Water, but also the creatures. Yeah, I do really interested to hear what some of our other friends, I do a little bit of scuba diving. But we've got some friends that are way into scuba diving and just the idea of someone who spends more time underwater, what would they here in this story? And so definitely I'm curious. And it's it's like, I wonder if something like the thrill of that that alien environment has a lot to do with the appeal of scuba diving. We have specifically one friend who just got her dive masters certificate, and she's hardcore into it. And I love it. And she's always like sharks remaining stop hating on them. And she's continuously trying to get me to skew it is. So I'm sure that you should it's fun with enough pestering. I will end up doing it. All. I'm Tera invited myself along on your perfect your scuba trick. But yeah, I startled before. And it was really cool. But and it was in like a crescent shaped island. So I could look behind me. And no nothing was there and look in front of be a no that nothing was there. Also. Also those conditions. Okay. I was surprisingly fine. I really thought I wasn't gonna be. And I was so. For whatever that's worth. We'll see what happens. But yeah. So I think there's a really good story. We really appreciate you something that into us. Yes. Thank you for sharing it. It's it's a fun one. It was a fun kind of see. How you as a writer kind of change perspectives and the elements you carry forward in your storytelling. So nice. Yes. So now we are going to move into our promo for this week. It is for our friends over at para nonsense broadcasting station. So this is there and rob. And they cover a variety of paranormal in weird subjects. So like some of the things that they've talked about before have been the mad Gasser, Roswell the black Dahlia, no stir is and they recently started a cryptic showdown series, which might interest you guys, basically, they take two different crypt. It's kinda toss mentoring and talk about you know, who will prevail essentially. Oh, listen on that. It's pretty fun. It's perfect. If you like the show because obviously, you probably have some interesting cryptic words. So we would hope so. But they are loads of fun. We highly recommend them, and we will play their promo for you. Now. My name's Eric name is rob. We're the host of the paranoid says broadcasting station a show, we talk about all things paranormal conspiracy or nonsense like you can find us on Twitter Instagram at Paran senses. That's P A R A N O N S E N S S, and we have a Facebook page. And also we have an Email pair nonsenses at g mail dot com dot com. You can also find us on I tunes Google play music. Spotify are hosting site is being tell people listen, and you will like us. All right. Bye. He's. All right to give them listen. Yeah. They sound cool. Yeah. All right. We are headed into our next hail. However. This is longer than usual for us. Yeah. We already talked about the length of it. And I hope you're you're settled in. It's a good story. But there are a couple of things you should know before we get rolling with it deals with some heavy stuff. It's become wanted to give a content slash trigger. Warning. It involves attempted rape and death. So if you don't wanna listen, that's absolutely fine. We completely understand like you said there is not another story after it's you can turn the episode off if you'd like we get it. But that being said it is a really really good story like load instead. So that's why we want to share with you. The story is called girl's best prints, and it is by Caitlyn McGlynn and her username unready is sexy Morgan. So here we go. My mom runs an animal shelter. I was there. All the time is a kid playing with the dogs and the cats. That's how I first met boo. And in a way Ginny house playing with the cats when I heard my mother talking to someone Iran excited to see since I knew she was showing people dogs to adopt Alicia. My mom said brightly, this is the wheelers. I think you in their little girl Ginny go to school together. She gestured to the family standing behind her. There is a short stocky, man. A woman with light blonde hair and a little girl was strawberry. Blonde hair holding the woman's hand. She was staring at the cages for the dogs were she turned her head to look at me, and I recognized her. She was really shy and kind of weird always playing alone at recess. Never really talking. When Ginny saw me she looked down at the floor and mumbled high. Hi, I said awkwardly. The wheelers are going to adopt a dog. Do you want to help them? Find one my mom asked me sure, I said happily I might be a little weirded out by Ginny. But I loved seeing dogs and cats getting adopted into loving families. We were walking for a little while Jimmy's. Parents sometimes ask about certain dog, but they never asked to see it more closely. Ginny just looked into cages not saying anything until we got to a certain cage. Ginny suddenly stopped walking. She stared into a cage with an interest. She didn't have before at first. I didn't see what she was looking at. Then I spotted a scrawny black puppy curled up in one of the corners of the cage. The puppy looked at us with fearful eyes. What's that dog's name? She asked softly, oh, that's boo. My mom answered. We found him in an old house. Poor thing was alone. My mom seeing the interest written on Jimmy's face asked. Would you like to see him? Ginny nodded shyly. My mother picked up blue and brought him over to the rest of us. He really was a weird. Looking puppy is firm was all black and his ears were far too big for his head? But I didn't notice until I got close to him was his eyes. They were very light Brown almost orange, and it looked strange when paired with his dark for boo was softly whimpering Jimmy's is widened and concern is he okay? Yeah. I said, he's just nervous. You have to let him get used to you. Mom, set boom on the ground. He continued to whimper, but he didn't try to run away. Ginny slowly crouch down then I soon followed suit. Why's he name, boo? Jimmy's dad asked. There was a. Character into kill Mockingbird named boo. Radley who lived in an old house and never came out of it. We thought it'd be cute to name net since the puppy seemed to be born in that old house on Wilson street and never left it. We still don't know what happened to his mother siblings. My mother applied booed calmed down. And was now looking at us still very cautious of us. Ginny slowly reached out her hand boob backed away at first I was going to call him back when Jimmy began talking. It's okay. I won't hurt. You. She said it so softly that. I almost couldn't hear her. I get scared when I meet new people to it's mostly okay? In the end booed looked up at her and with some hesitation came back, closer Ginny. Gently patted him on the top of his head her fingers. Just brushing the top of his head boost Niffer hand and began licking it. Ginny giggles. I think it was the first time I ever heard her laugh. She started really petting him and Busey's to enjoy it. Our parents who are distracted by their own conversation. Her Jimmy's laugh. So is this the dog you want Ginny? Mrs Wheeler asked Ginny nodded and had the biggest smile on her face. Absolutely. He's perfect ever since that day, Ginny and boo were utterly inseparable. Whenever I went to the local park. I would see Ginny playing with blue. If she wasn't doing that she was walking him or even laying down while reading a book resting her head on his body. It wasn't very hard. My momma thought he was a German shepherd mix, and he clearly was it was also clear. His other parent must have been a fairly large dog considering how big he was by the time we were in middle school boo was taller than most little kids. Boo was a weird dog in general from what I saw he was always able to fall any order or direction that Ginny gave him. It didn't really phase me at first German shepherds are usually very smart and extremely easy to train. That's why they're so often used as police or military dogs. It's just some of booze behavior could be strange, for example, when I was in seventh grade, I went to the park with my friend, Jake to hang out, I admit I had a little crush on him. I don't know why considering what a jerky could be while there we noticed Ginny sitting under a tree while reading a book boo was, of course, with her resting his head on her lap. Geez. Guess she's weird out of school to Jake said. Yeah, I felt a little bad. But Ginny couldn't hear and it wasn't like I was going to say to her face. She's the only person I know who likes to be alone. Well, except for the dog I looked back at Jimmy. And I jumped just a little Ginny was still engrossed in her book. But booboo was now staring at me and Jake. I thought it was going to look around or rest his head on Jimmy's lap again. However, he just kept staring at us. Looks like we pissed off the dog Jake seemed completely at ease under booze glare. Maybe if we go over and mess with the dog will be the one to tell us off. I was going to roll my eyes. When suddenly I heard loud barking. I turn my head back to the tree. And there was boo. Still looking at us up on his feet barking with vigor. Johnny seem surprised by booze outbursts and was trying to calm him down. Boo. Continued to bark his is never want straying from us. Ginny eventually just lead boo away from the park, Jake, and I were bit perplexed by this. But didn't think much of it? However for the next two years whenever Jake or I would see boo he would glare at us, assuming dogs are capable of that and would bark if either of us approached Ginny me and Ginny weren't really friends. Ginny wasn't really friends with anyone. No one was ever mean to her to her face at least. But she seemed to be more at ease and talkative when interacting with teachers than with other. Students. Maybe that's why teacher agreed to drive her home after she got a nasty sprain while gym class. We lived in a very small town and Jimmy's house was so close to the high school that she could walk to it. After a call to her mother. The teacher said she would gladly drive journey home. The teacher needed someone to walk genie out of the school while she got her keys I volunteered to do. So I want to say I did it because my mom always taught me to help people out. But I would be lying. If I said cutting class wasn't an incentive to help her. I let her lean on me as I brought her out of the school and near the parking lot Ginny then sat down on a bench wincing a bit as she pressed a bit on her injured ankle as with the rest of the walk before we waited an awkward silence. That was pretty common with Jimmy. Why can't your parents pick you up? I was so desperate to end the silence that I blurted that out. I immediately regretted it because it sounded so rude. Jimmy looked like she was surprised I talked to her then she looked down avoiding I contact. This was also very common for Jenny my mom and dad both worked during the day. Ginny mumbled, they work a lot in general, not that I mind or anything she had that part quickly as if she was embarrassed the awkward silence dragged on for a couple more seconds. I consider just telling Ginny I was going back to class and leaving the teacher was going to come back any minute now. Anyway, Ginny wouldn't care. She clearly was uncomfortable with this as I was before I could speak though, I heard barking to my shock, boo. Bounded down the parking lot tail wagging. Genie's entire face lit up booboo, boo came up to Ginnie Ginnie happily petted him. She seemed so much more alive that she had been. She giggled as booed Lichter face. It reminded me of the day that Jeannie and booth. I met an old question sprung up in my mind. Wait, how why I was baffled at how Buhl was able to find the high school never mind. How he knew Ginny was in this exact area at this exact time. Ginny was very relaxed about the situation. And almost seemed amused by confession boo always knows when I need help. And he always comes to me, although he shouldn't have come here. You could have gotten hurt on the way here. She said that last part to boo in a tone that one might use for young children, boo. Barked still more happy to be with his owner than heating anything. She might say, boo. Then turned briefly to give me one of his now signature weirdly cold looks. He went back to comforting his owner. I saw an opportunity to finally ask a question. I've been dined. Ask ginny. Could I ask you something? I was hesitant to ask. This question had been nagging me for years at this point. Why did you choose boo? Ginny look. A bit surprise. But she seemed much more at ease than before. She looked down at blue. Well, you know, he was curled up by the wall. When we first saw him Bulaq small and fragile in scared. I guess I felt bad for him. Then your mom said they found him all alone. Ginny stroked booze head her eyes. Downcast? I realized why he was acting like that he was lonely, and he didn't know if he would ever stop feeling that way there is flavored away to the right? I guess I knew what that could feel like so I thought maybe we could cure each other's loneliness. A soft smile formed on her face looking at her dog with pure joy it worked boob bar tap and seeming agreement with her I was floored. I always thought Ginny liked being loan. I never would have thought that her eyes elation wasn't self-imposed, or at least something that she disliked. She looked like anyone else when she was playing with blue you need to go home. Now, boo Jimmy said to him I promise I'll be fine until then boo looked like he wanted to stay. But he'd dutifully started leaving. I wanted to talk to Jimmy before boo left, and she returned to being so quiet. Hey ginny. I'm I'm having a pool party on Saturday. Do you wanna come to it? If your ankle is healed. I mean, I said quickly Jimmy's mouth opened in shock. Really? You want me to come? Yeah. Sure. We've known each other since elementary school after all a huge smile formed on Jimmy's face. Thank you. I'll come for. Sure, I smiled it felt nice to make someone else feel so happy. Then I noticed boot was still there. He was looking at me, but his stared lack the normal intensity at had boo. Looked almost like he was studying me. Ginny noticed me staring at him and turn to him. Boo have to go. She made a movement with her arm, shooing them away booze somewhat reluctantly left a few seconds later, the teacher came and drove any home after that me and Jimmy became friends not close or anything, but it was still something. Ginny was a good friend. It's just sometimes I can't help. But think if Ginny and I never became friends. Maybe what happened that day wouldn't have occurred the year after and I became friends, I was taking my little brother trick or treating jet came with us because he had nothing better to do. My crush on him had waned over the years, but I still remained friends with him regardless. Big mistake. We got to genie's house Jenny was sitting on the lawn chair with boob. I her side. She was dressed in a long blue skirt and had a flower in her hair. Boo had a novelty shark costume on. Ginny. Happily gave my brother some candy. I told him he could go over next door while I talk to Ginnie Ginnie smiled when she saw me. And boo. Even started wagging his tail. Ever since the day. Jillian, I became friends. Boo has been far more friendly to me. I gave you a Pat on the head. Wow. Boo. The shark is on the loose Ginny chuckled. Yeah. My dad bounded at PetSmart addressed up like a mermaid to match. But I don't think I did a very good job. I think you look great said, Jake Jeannie, and I both turned to him in surprise, even after genie became, my friend. He continued to maintain. His Ginny is a weirdo stance. Boo. Stopped wagging his tail and began looking at Jake with a stern stare just as Jake had never changed his opinion of Ginny. Boo. Had never changed how he acted around. Jake. You know, me and Alicia are going to party later Malary's place. You can come. If you want Jake was acting way too nice. This should have set off alarm bells. But I was just happy who's being nice to Jimmy. I don't know. I mean, I'm I'm not good at parties. Ginny look down, Italy fun. I promise I said Ginny never really went out much. So I was trying to help her Ginny put her hand on booze. As if it helped her, build, courage. Okay. I'll ask my parents if I can go they said, yes. The shouldn't have Malary's party was going great. Everyone was having fun. Jimmy came a bit later than everyone else. She stayed close to me and didn't really talk to anyone else. She was just starting to open up a little when Jake showed up to drink in his hand, he handed one to me and to Ginnie Ginnie wrinkled her nose when she sip of her drink. I didn't drink mine at first we all started to go to mellow his backyard and here in local band made up of kids from our school. I figure Ginny was behind me. I was talking to some of my other friends when I took a sip out of my drink. I immediately spit it out. I thought it was apple cider. But a pond tasting it. I realized it was another drink. They were serving the party beer. I also remember that Ginny had been given a Cup of this. Also, I knew she never drink beer before. So she might not even know she was drinking it I frantically scan the yard for her. But couldn't see her anywhere. My blood ran cold when I realized I couldn't see Jake anywhere. Either. My friends tried to ask me what was wrong, I was already run. Toward the door. I entered the house and made my way to the living room where last saw Ginny. I was about to call out jeans name when I heard two voices arguing with each other. Let me go a feminine voice said it was clearly Jimmy's voice. She might have been trying to yell, but her words were slurred, and she sounded disoriented come on Italy fun. A male responded. It was definitely Jake. I ran into the living room. See ginny. Jake standing near the top of the stairs. Jake was holding genie's wrist. Ginny was swing a bit. She looked down and called out Alicia go Alicia, it's not a big deal from the tone of voice. I think Jake was a little Trump to. Let go of her. I began climbing the stairs. Eventually getting to the top Jake had backed up quite a bit. He was still holding. Genie's wrist, boo. I I want boo. Ginny slurred, I began to wonder if he actually put anything in that drink. He gave Ginny. Will you shut up? He said Ginny Jason turned to me come on. Now. I was just going to make the freak do some embarrassing stuff and posted online it's going to be funny. No it won't. I said let her go. Jake was about to respond when noises started coming from the front door, it sounded like scratching on the door, then loud, barking and growling. What the hell Jake asked. I almost had to agree with him, boo. Ginny happily yelled started towards them the barking only got louder Jake saw what I was doing. I guess he started to get angry at us for ruining his fun fine. Take the freak Jake. Than shoved Junie toward me. He shoved her so hard that she flew right past me and into the wall. She was right by the stairs, Jenny tried to regain her balance. But she was drunk and scared and it all happened so fast too fast. Ginny slipped and fell down the stairs within seconds. She was lying at the foot of the stairs. She was completely motionless. Ginny I yelled I quickly made my way down the stairs. Right. As I reached her the front door busted open. Boo. Came charging Jimmy's body. He started frantically licking her than nudging her head Boutros everything to get Ginny to stir, but she didn't move at all after a while booby whimpering before letting out the most mournful howl I had ever heard. I went closer hoping against hope that Ginny was just unconscious. I saw that her neck was bent at an unnatural angle. Then I saw her eyes. Oh, God, those is until the day. I die. I will. Always remember her is they. Were half lifted. Like Janie was tired or sad. But the is themselves told the truth they were completely devoid of any kind of light just staring into nothingness the rest of the night was a blur. I remember the police coming. They had to pull boo off Jimmy's body because he wouldn't leave her. I do remember Jake pulling me aside and begging me not to tell anyone what really led to Jimmy's death. He it was a mistake. He said then began black mailing me. Do you really want other people to know you brought her here that got me? My parents were already going to be so disappointed. I was at a party with alcohol. I couldn't take the looks people would give me if they knew I was involved. Besides I didn't genie's parents to know just how frightened she had been in her last moments. So I just said Ginny just slipped on her own. They might find out hall under system if they did not see, but they probably weren't going to have one. And if they did everyone would just think she tried it on her own. I was bad the first few days, I wouldn't leave my room. My parents thought it was just. Grief. But it was more the intense guilt. I was feeling it. Also was the image of genie's dead body in my mind. I would see it every time I closed my eyes. This only got worse after genie's funeral. My parents told me I didn't have to go to it. I didn't feel the same way. I felt I at least. Oh, Ginny that I was doing surprisingly. Well at the funeral all things considered. This all changed when I saw Jimmy and the casket she had a pretty dress with her eyes closed. Ginny almost looked like she was sleeping. But as soon as I saw her I flashed back to the terrible sight of her body laying on the ground her empty is. I ran out of the funeral home. I desperately tried to catch my breath. The chili fall air filled my lungs after coming down. I felt like someone was watching me. I looked around and saw him booze sitting across the street. His light Brown eyes bore into me I began to back away booze started to growl. I was about to go back inside when I heard the door open. I turn to Jimmy's mother Pekar. Out alicia. What are you doing out here? She asked I was getting some fresh air it sounded so stupid. I almost cringed. Mrs wheelers expression softened, I understand I know you and Ginny weren't that close. But, but she really does appreciate your friendship. Did appreciate your friendship just being near her was filling me with such an intense sensitive. Now I had to see her grief firsthand. I betrayed Janine death. I was still doing it. Now lying by mission to her mother at her funeral no less. It made me want to throw up. I quickly tried to change the subject to something anything else. I saw booth just now he must have gotten out again. I immediately realized what a mistake I had made boo was Ginny shadow, of course. Ginny was going to be brought up again for all. I knew her parents brought boo here to let him say goodbye or something. Mrs Wheeler began frantically looking around when I said that where. He's over there. I turn to point to where I saw boo he had seemingly vanished into thin air. Oh, Where'd he go on? No, MRs Wheeler, look devastated. Boo. Ran off the night. Ginny. She couldn't bear to say it. I'm sorry. I said awkwardly, I just didn't know what else to say without spilling everything out that dog meant the world to Janie. Mrs Wheeler said quietly he was at least living part of her. I could hear her voice shake now that's going to it was obvious. She was about to break down. I should have comforted her or got someone or or something. I just ran away like the coward. I was Iran all the way back to my house. My parents were right. I shouldn't have gone. I eventually went back to school. The school had a moment of silence for Jimmy the atmosphere around the school felt somber for the first few days. Everything went back to normal except for the empty, desks. Ginny. Would use an each class. I started skipping classes that I used to have which any just so I didn't have to see them. The desks weren't the only reminder I had to avoid school, Jake constantly tried to talk to me. I Nord him every single time. Just looking at him made me feel sick deep down. I knew I couldn't outrun the consequences of that night forever. It finally came crashing down a few weeks later it was early December by then I stayed up late after school to assist in planning at Christmas charity event. I jumped it any chance to do stuff like that. I thought doing good things for other people might ease my guilt bit. I was the last one out, and I was going to drive home Neda ridell. I heard of a million voice call I looked over to see Jake leaning against his car. He was twirling his keys in his hand. I knew exactly what he was going to offer. I began walking pointedly ignoring him. I was about to get to my own car. When Jake drove his car in front of me and stopped Jake popped his head out of his window. And said we need to talk. Now. We've nothing to talk about actually we do he roughly grabbed my wrist a deal with the silent treatment. But that damn dog is too much. What that caught my attention? Oh, don't play dumb with me. Jake, sneered genie's. Freaky dog keeps coming to my street every damn night. I look out my window to see that dog staring at me. I don't know how you or whoever else you told trained him to do that. But I'm sick of it. I didn't train him to do any of that. I've barely seen him since. Ginny funeral. I protested Jake's grip on my wrist became so tight yelped from pain, Jake bared his teeth. Do you expect me to buy that Jake suddenly stopped his tirade? He was staring over my shoulder. A turn my head to see what it was sitting in the parking lot was boo. Boo was sitting about twenty feet from us. He was under one of the streetlamps in the light. He looked more like a shadow that had ROY. Rose up from the ground than a dog. Call him off Jake said through gritted teeth. I told you I don't have anything to do with this yelled. I managed to free. My wrist from Jake's grasp we need to call Jimmy's. Parents. They've been looking for him. Jake was about to say something when boo started growling boost lowly got up and was now stocking toward us. Get away you stupid mutt. Jake shouted booze growling turned into an even louder snarling, I could now see his eyes the lights in the parking lot reflected off his is. I don't know if it was a trick of the light or not. But I could have sworn his eyes looked more red than Brown. There was an anger in his eyes to I'd seen dogs angry before, but this was different. There was an intelligence in malice there that normal dogs lacked all that wrath was now aimed at Jake and me Jake Kirsten swiftly got into his car. Boost started running towards the car in a panic. I got into Jake's car, Jake was bumbling. With his keys when he noticed. I was there. He began to fumble with his words as well. No, no, no, get out get out. Now, he was cut off when boo suddenly lunged Jake side of the car. Jake forgot his protests and quickly drove his car out of the parking lot as fast as possible. I was trying to catch my breath within a minute. I could hear the loud barking again. I was in shock, boo. Couldn't possibly run fast enough to be that close to us yet there. He was I was wide eyed when I looked out the window boot was fairly far away. But just the fact he had already caught up with us was nearly impossible. Not only that. But he was still keeping pace with us as well. How the hell is it doing that Jake yelled? I don't know. Wait, I got an idea. Jake made a sharp turn the road. We were on had walls of trees on both sides combined with the sharp twists and turns on it led to many car crashes in the past. I could see why Jake thought that would make boo lucite of us. Even I thought it might work for a second. Those hopes were quickly. Dashed when I heard boos booming bark once again this time it was even louder Jake yelled. What's this? He stopped talking the second. He looked in the rear view mirror. Jake space turned white what the fuck he whispered in disbelief. I looked in the review mirror and couldn't believe what I saw boo was getting bigger his bones seem to be growing first poking almost through his skin before the rest of his body. Caught up. His is changed into a rich blood red his irises expanding until his entire. I was read his mouth was open. And I could see his growing teeth the teeth got sharper and drool was dripping from his now, huge mall, his gaze never left the car. I realized with horror that he was almost at the car. I couldn't do anything. But scream Jake, drove the car, even faster. He just I loudly over and over again, still terrified yelled, go faster who. Will you shut up yelled back the panic in his voice had reached a fever pitch? This is all your fault. If you never talked to that fucking his never would have happened suddenly pieces of glass and metal were thrown onto us from behind. I turned back immediately and saw booze massive Ma with an inches of my face, Jake screamed the mouth was about to bite us. I turn to face front. So I wouldn't have to see it only to realize we were on a turn. And we're about to hit a tree which we did. I blacked out when we made impact I don't know how long I was out for. But when I woke my vision was blurry from blood dripping into my eyes on instinct, I wiped it away. I soon became aware of the intense pain. I was in my legs were pinned by the dashboard. Help I yelled I looked around to see if anyone heard my cries. I almost wish I didn't look for one thing. I can now tell the car had been flipped onto its side possibly because Jake tried to turn to late. The worst part was what I could see through the cracked windshield. I spotted Jake spotty. I could only see his back. But I could see he was not moving even worse. I could see the blood staining his clothes and the grass near him. I could just tell he was gone after I processed what I saw I began to cry. I had known both Ginny and Jake since elementary school and now I had seen both their corpses. I heard shuffling outside the window booze feet came into view, it appeared he was no longer in that huge demonic form took on before. It didn't matter though. I knew what was coming next also knew this was my last chance to make peace with him and myself. I'm sorry. I should have said what happened to Jimmy. I was a coward Assab torture. The back of my throat should have been a better friend to her. Her everything was going back. I was sure I was going to die. I fell into unconsciousness. And I thought I would never wake up again. I remember being woken by the feeling of something or someone pulling me I opened my eyes to find myself on the ground next to the car the blue and red lights of an ambulance covered the area around right before the paramedics got to me. I said the faint silhouettes of boo and a person a girl in a long skirt. I had to stay in the hospital for a couple of weeks. I still go to physical therapy. Every week. I came clean about what really happened to Ginny people were angry at me, more for speaking. Ill of the now dead, Jake. He was horrifically mangled by the crash or by boo. I never told anyone about what I thought. I saw that night. He died. People wouldn't believe me. Anyway, I did feel bad about how he died, but the truth needed to come out. I'm just sad. Someone else had to die before. I had the courage to come forward. Jimmy's. Parents never found boo. My mom told me they had recently adopted another dog in genie's memory. They apparently said I'm glad I think Jenny would have liked that. As for me. I'm trying to move on with my life. Sometimes when I'm walking by the park. I think I see a girl was strawberry blonde hair playing with a large black dog just out of the corner of my eye. Whenever I try to get a good look, though, they always disappear. Yeah. Let's let's start to unpack that that was there was a lot to that a lot to pack for sore. Yeah. I really for one. I'd like to start with some of the comments that were on the original Reddit thread, there were some that said, oh that was a whole roller coaster of emotions that should have been a minivan. Absolutely true. Yeah. Really? It was a really complete story that followed this whole journey and really built these characters to be pretty real people. I like that you're left as you should be with with the feeling of that. Jimmy's avenge, really. Yeah. That's stark everything has and so much step, but you know, pup are funds. And they take care of us. We don't deserve them. Clearly boo is not a regular pepper. No. He's a good boy. He's very good. And I really like, I guess the first thing to touch on. What really be how amazing animals are for emotional support. Oh, yeah. The way that Ginny just immediately latched right onto boo and used him as an emotional support animal like she was able to be talkative unless shy and less lonely whenever he was around. And it's that's all you. I've seen in many different people that I know they have their own animals that connection that you have something that loves you unconditionally would do anything for you is amazing. You know, you're immediately you feel loved you feel safe you feel stronger Phil braver Jesper's having a companion for me specifically. It's a it's a dog. But I know that for anybody out there, there's there's a companion or an animal then matches your lifestyle, and what you really need. But really? Just the idea of having somebody who thinks you are really cool, and really whatever you're doing. That's the cool thing to do and dogs eight-plus animals. Hell hounds kinda rough. Clearly, he had the same quality to. I mean, he was right there for her all the time and fiercely protective clearly. So they're pretty cool. And I think our first indication kind of of of boo being a little bit smarter. A little bit more intuitive than majority of dogs with him. I like latching onto the main character and j kind of talking about Jenny in the park way early on in the story. He picks up on that immediately in the knows right from there that you know, Jacob add bad. He's bad news bears very much. So and I know the dogs in general really are very good at picking up on body language and on I guess, maybe people's general bibles, you know, they can tell if somebody is a dick someone you should stay away from if your dog hate someone there's probably a good reason. So maybe trust them. Tonight. But also understand that sometimes may dog can be like people and be a little anxious and check new things. So I've got my poodle blazer. He's a very very fine animal. The best dog I've ever known. But is adopted brother Rudy belongs to my father and Rudy as barked at me every time he's ever seen me. And that's just who Rudy is as a dog. He's he he identifies as a barking dog. And I respect that. He's he's a chatterbox and blazer isn't. But see dogs, and that's a huge huge part of the of the story. But also, there's the element of I do think we do need to touch on the content in this story that. Yes. It brings out a visceral reaction out of out of the listener the reader, it's highly hard to listen to kind of. You know, you want? I it's like a horror story you want to yell at the screen. You wanna say no get out of there. This is this is not where you need to be don't do that. And I'm really glad that the main character was there and like consistently saying, you don't know stop it. This isn't okay. Which is what anyone to do in that situation. Yeah. Maybe more more. So obviously, and you know, definitely tell truth after the facts, that's a big deal. But I'm glad that it didn't go as far as could have in that regard. Except for the fact that, you know, cheat ended up dying. So that's still really rough. But it is something that I think we do need to talk about. It's it's something that happens for far more often than you can imagine. I mean, this cystic are. Yeah. It's staggering. I I get that. That's not really the kind of podcast. We are. But we're also now the kind of podcast that it knows things that people are legitimately afraid of and things that are really part of the world right now. And it's something that we we tend to kind of end up talking about more often than probably most people do because we have a very good friend of ours who is getting her doctorate and and gender and sexuality and she's specifically dealing with sexual violence in her dissertation. So it is something we end up discussing with her a lot. And it's it's really interesting, and it's it's very sodden and horrifying. But it needs to be talked about because if stuff isn't out there. We don't talk about it. It becomes like the stigma just continues. And and the situation will end up happening. Yeah. And really look at these the two characters I know they're fictional. But the situation kind of a rose because they were not as Kate as they could have been about. What happens a warning signs of behavior hate to say it, but securing your way out and knowing who your friends are a little better. That's. The world teenagers. Right. So there's there's very little that they have been in this, you know, party with alcohol before that's that's a new thing to these characters. And obviously, that's the thing that she was the most afraid of of coming out was that she was at a party with alcohol in everything. But you know, had she sat down with her parents. And have they talked about the situation. Maybe that's the thing that she would have been like all right? I know what is okay on. What's not? Okay. And this is not okay. Kinda Wayne her options better instead of taking kind of the cowardly way out and saving her own ask over, you know, give a guy being prosecuted. Centrally. No. And and really, it's it's a feeling of isolation. Kind of the the other side of the coin. So Jeannie was a character that was isolated by her own nature or by circumstance and found companionship in in boo. The the main character by. When they went from being kind of popular two more isolated there situation. Got so much worse. And I do think that is something that can be kind of looked at in. This story is the note of isolation, and how having someone else to be a sounding board for ideas or someone to to understand or even an animal that you feel understands you and just. That really kind of helps to avoid bad decisions from being made. I guess. Yeah. Definitely. And I mean, she she clearly she trusted the band character. And she by extension trusted, Jake when he extends this invitation with clearly bad attention, right? But that element of of naievety and trust being completely betrayed by someone who just takes advantage of someone else. Unfortunately, the weak or the innocent. And it's it's awful and it happens far too often. So I'm glad that the story does explore it as hard as it is to listen to. I am glad that that that we've talked about it a little bit. And I think that it's just a really difficult thing to approach, you know, it happens too often, and it's awful always Meza Kley. That's that's why I mean, maybe that's not the only reason that that we look into folklore. But maybe that's something that people get out of out of our show is a break from it a little bit just to. Tastic tragic reality. I would so much rather go up against, you know, challenge rating twenty black dragon than an angry boss that thing. And and sometimes just step is to real finding a little bit of escape in these stories is not a bad thing because you know, the real world, that's not all great. And I guess in our ski here really is, you know, booed turning into giant essentially hell hound you know in acting vengeance upon on his master's murderer. Really? So I think that's great. We've talked about that. I don't I don't wanna go too much further in. We're happy to have discussions with you guys. You wanna talk about it with us online. That's fantastic. Send us nail or find us on Twitter or something. We're happy to chat about it with you guys. But I do wanna talk a little bit now about boost specifically. So he he's aimed after Baragli right from the famous famous work to kill a Mockingbird, which is beautiful beautiful book a beautiful movie. Beautiful play. You know that? We've we've many of us have seen. Adaptation of. Whether you've just absorbed to through just being around it and watched it eight thousand times because Gregory Peck was holiday, let's be real. And he's just yeah. He's just so. But we rally is probably one of the best. I think literary characters out there. Right. He's this beautiful beacon of pure goodness. And and. Someone that's flourished with his goodness despite all of the dark cruelty in isolation that has happened to him. Really? He's he's this force of good that that is initially kind of creepy or scary to someone in. This instance, in the book scout and JEM a kids that are are the main characters, and he's he's scary to them. But he starts doing nice little things to them. And I think if we compare that to boo the dog in the story he's weird at first in the shelter, and he's creepy to everybody else. And he's a little he's a little frightening. A little scary to some people. But he is fiercely protective he helps out with. With Janie and her loneliness and being able to cope, and I think that that having him be this character, which I'm sure is the author's intention if I think I think it's a perfect analogy. You know, he's he's that scary thing that is goodness and protection. And as xactly what Baradei is is well up savings gotten Jemma, Dan that it's not part of the appearance of being threatening or helpful. It's about actions, and I do think that you're you're onto something with that. And I and I often thought while while reading the story of thinking back on it that if the story had been a little different if characters had been friendly to Ginny, if she had had more friends or something like that what would behavior been we saw a lot of examples of his the heavier towards characters that negatively towards Ginny. How does he really does he ever really warm up to anybody? But but Jimmy does he like to see her flourish? Does he seem to tolerate the main character? A once when identified that she wasn't really thread, you know. And then I don't know. But really anybody who's an animal knows that that that's what they do. They have to warm up to you for a little bit and see that you're part of the pack, and you're not going to steal the food and run questioned. I mean, like what he even have been engineer's wife had she been a different type of person either. I agree. I don't think she would have been drawn to it. Picks him out, you know. So that's kind of a thing to talk about their to, you know, people finding each other in ways when when they need to situations that they need to and I really really liked the imagery, the ends kind of where she she sees a girl in a flower dress, which is gotta be Jenny right? I really love that. She's still with the pup. You know, like I wonder if if kind of getting back Jake was like her unfinished business or something. Yeah. Ghost of some sort like, he's he he seems or earlier we talked a little bit about the the patrols that they had. And in Harry Potter, the protective animal spirit that turn us is how. Yeah. Well, I feel like there's definitely a bond made there and part of this supernatural creatures skill set is this supernatural bond. I'm thinking to like this just occurred to me, but like. With block dogs in in supernatural lore. I guess there's many different kinds of black black dogs lake the bar gassed or blackjack a lot of them come from the like the UK area. But they're usually portends of something to come something bad is coming or some protects others. So there's a lot of imagery that goes right along with that too. You know, black dogs specifically are very very much present in supernatural lore, and a pretty solid leads upland. So. But yeah, that's there's there's a lot of symbolism to the canine all the way back to Neanderthals in wolves that I mean, maybe it's it's it's a bit of a jump to go into where will history. But as soon as you do there's a lot of stuff out there on where. Yes. And it's when we're in direct competition with something it becomes antagonised in our world as humans, I mean. And that's why you get these kind of wear creatures or mitts from different parts of the world that have kind of similar idea when you have the same ecological niche. That's your monster right there. And for us a social scavenger hunter that was the wolf, and well, we're on the same level. And we weren't quite sure what to think of each other for several thousand years now, we're friends, but. There's a lot. There's a lot of stories out there of of monster dogs and scary things that are old old memories. And I don't think that we're gonna do specifically where wolves in the future. But we could there's definitely the potential for doing something like the the beast of Gabby, Don or something like that. That'll be specific where will then really as a whole a long episodes. You can do it entire podcast on just where wolves of the world. And they're probably. But sorry, go ahead. I'll know just kind of closer on this one. I just draws me back to while. The story was about this hell hound monster. Character if you if you want to know what I pictured when the dog deformed look up Peter puppy again from earthworm, Jim. Yeah. He's a small defenceless puppy that turns into this giant red hulking psycho beast anti love it. But really, I don't feel like title was ironic. I feel like it is he definitely was girl's best. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't feel like a boob was the tag of this story. Do was he was monster. But not the Knight. Knight in shining armor. You want the monster on your side? I mean, how how did you feel about? Jake staff he got what was coming. I tried to every time. I read him. He tried to not make him the comical version of toxic masculinity where characters. Giant fucking asshole are like that. I know that that's really like that profiles a very real thing. That's a type of dude that's out there. There's a profile for reason because they exist, and but at the same time, I I like that. There was a little bit of window into the author took the time to write out that he panicked and didn't think was he kind of lost his shit in there. And that was a reaction a real person would have. Situation. And when you get a kind of these these tough guys that claim they're all alpha and everything, but really put them in a situation where you have to think through a plan and execute it. When other people safety is something you're responsible for those kind of guys they often panic not every single one. I mean in this not just men, I know just specifically when talking experience can definitely make these things change entirely, and he's a he's a teenager too dumb teenage kid. That's that's the other thing to remember. Really? Yes. I know his actions were reprehensible and this story for them. But really I feel like they were actions more out of again ignorance than malice. I think he was a young kid. And if his parents had told him Kay, this is how you really treat people. Here's how you get people to genuinely like you. Here's how here's how you watch out for people. And here's what alcohol and other things. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I. I dunno. I yes. Yeah. He's the villain. Yeah. He died in the same way guest on died and. Yeah. We'll story. Exactly. And you and you want to be like, okay. I feel bad that I'm happy that this kid got what was coming to them which was kind of an eye for an eye thing. Right. But we we also don't know that that's necessarily what would be intended. He crashed the car believing. He's the one the crowd didn't do a tree he was being attacked granted. But that's just what happened, you know. So who knows if it was an accident. But regardless I mean, it felt very karmic, you know, and it's a story. So you can kind of put yourself out a little bit further, and and feel less guess bad that somebody is dead. The. Yeah. But the other story the other part of these stories is death is not a permanent state. It's a. Yes, we're talking. We're talking go since googlies and spooky things here on folklore on the rock, so unclearly. Ginny was a ghost. So Jay cut in the head on collision. He was an asshole in life. But there's a possibility the sequel of this story, he's this of engine ghost that seeks out to stop date, rapes wherever they may occur all of his wrong. That's his his penance. I don't know about that. I like that. The law. Just imagine that this is how this continued on. Yeah. I don't know. Really? If there is a redemption story for for Jake if he had survived. This is a he's he's a shitty, dude. And did some shitty things now continued to do shitty things because he clearly didn't. He didn't get. The main character didn't come clean until after he was dead. And I do think it was hard to read, and I feel pretty good trying to close it on that note that really that's the big the big problem in this. If if the character had just the main character had just really felt comfortable speaking up and really saying this is wrong. This is not what needs to happen. She's my friend. I'm going to get us both out of here. Whether in the moment, or after the fact that is always the right choice in. It's it's a good way to imagine yourself. Like, it's hard to know what you do in any type of situation that that is anywhere near like, this kind of thing. It's hard to know. Right. But I think it's a good reminder to kind of cemented into your brain to not be that person. Yeah. Yeah. Really the the people who stand on the sidelines. Well, we all know what happens. Make up any simile metaphor or idiom for it. But it's don't be that person is what we mean to say, exactly. I mean, you listen to like true crime podcast and stuff of so many things so many bad things could have been prevented or stopped. Yeah. We know. We know you we know you wonder off to those true crime podcast. Oh, I'm just thinking list there. But as I'm sure you're is such a huge chunk of the podcasting world for that of exact reason, you know, and I hope that it's teaching us all to not be the person that that doesn't say anything. And then the there's a coal case for thirty years that doesn't get salt until DNA. Profiling gets into the limelight. Like don't be the person speak up. That's the solution or something wrong happens. It's not it's not new crime solving things. It's not what you know. Webs of information across continents. Yeah. That'll help but preventative measures like education and treating people with respect and really reporting stuff the social contract of let's make things better for everybody. Let's try to you know, just all get through the day. Yeah. Basically don't be a dick and don't be a coward. Excellent. To each other. Excellent. To each other absolute. Really? Okay. I feel that we are going to step down from our soap-boxes. Now. Thanks for hanging out with us for that. It's a difficult thing to talk about. And here's something that we can kind of I think transition so Matz place boo in our alignment system. Okay. I do think that boo has a malevolence to him that is part of his breeding. I don't think he was ever raised that way or anything like that. But evil, not evil. I think he has leaning toward evil in much the same chaotic. I don't even know if chaotic I think he's to him. He's got. Specific laws. He's got he's. Maybe like a lawful neutral, then because I think he could be unstoppable killing machine if he was truly chaotic I think you'd see dead animals around the neighborhood, you'd see the mail man, dismembered. He definitely true neutral then. Yeah. Yeah. React unless something provokes them. And then he will react as he needs to react. I feel like with most with most dogs, and well, it's say may maybe safe to assume with hell hounds as well. They adopt the same alignment as their person. A lot of sense if they find themselves in a situation where they are a companion. They watched that person for us. And if that person is kind generous and positive and has a good attitude toward the the animal as well as two other people the animal's going to be fine. If it's not you get different kind of animal. I yeah. I think true nature. All it. Probably be a good spot. Yeah. Because I feel like that's what genie was I feel. She was probably she was neutral. Good mostly because she never really got to be really really old where her actions affected others. So it's hard to put her on the lawful chaos scale. Yes, she's quite young. She probably didn't know nothing about herself. Anyway, like, she was neutral. Good, and I feel like her neutral good kind of town of balance the neutral evil that is the default start point for a hell hound and for most of the story. Yeah. Boo. True neutral. Yeah. Definitely. Okay. So. That's gonna be it. I night. Yeah. So good bunch of stories. I know, you know, then not the whole handful smorgasbord just these were two nice big walkers for you. But I hope you enjoyed them. Two. And as always you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at folklore the rocks. You can find us on Twitter at focal. And Twitter Twitter really is the place that we basically hang out the most release. So, you know, tweet at us. We'll probably see it. If we don't just DM us. And to my. But we also have as always pictures notes sources on folklore in the rocks dot com our site, and if you want links to these stories, if you want to know more about the people that brought them definitely check out the show notes because that will be there and. Just a reminder, we are still doing free stickers. If you write us review and send in a screen shot. You know, you know, you want a sticker, you know, you will they're really cool vinyl. So they'll stick anywhere. They're just basically our logo square that's our logo. It's super cool, and they comment fancy little envelope with a whack same saying, you know, you want that and getting male great. Let's be real start. It's yeah. It's like a present. And finally, something that's not from Amazon prime he or bills. I get mail. But. Regardless even if you don't want stickers, please just leave us a review or rate us and tunes. We really appreciate it. Again. If we do if we do get one hundred reviews, we're going to do that bonus episode with listener selected creature will do some sort of poll for that or take suggestions or something like that. And just kind of tell your friends word of mouth is fantastic way. To get our podcast known. I guess it's the best marketing for us. So, but yeah that sell us. So thank you listening and tune in next Sunday. Thanks, everybody have great week.
Virginia Piper Pt. 1
"Have you checked out my new podcast survival yet, if not you're really missing out, it tells high intensity stories of people in life or death situations and explores the strategies they use to stay alive search for and subscribe to survival wherever you listen to podcasts, and please don't forget to rate and review. This episode features discussion of kidnapping and extreme violence that some people may find offensive listener discretion is advised especially for children under thirteen. Forty nine year old Virginia piper never expected to find herself at gunpoint least of all in her own home where she didn't even bother locking the doors at night. But now she found herself staring down the barrels of four guns ever the consummate hostess, she tried to play it cool after all. She's Ginny piper. She can talk to anyone even burglars though. Admittedly, too large nervous men, waving guns were not ideal houseguests they asked her where her husband was. And she admitted he was at work at this. The two men grew enraged, but Ginny didn't react. She's simply smiled swallowing her fear hoping to put them at ease. She had one priority to get herself into her house staff through this alive. She invited the men to rifle through her jewelry and assured them they were welcome to anything in the house. She wasn't expecting them to take that literally one of the men withdrew a pair of handcuffs as his partner aimed as gun MRs piper. He said you're going with us. This is hostage on the par cast network. Every Thursday, we tell the stories behind the most captivating hostage situations and the people inside them. I'm Carter, ROY. And I'm Irma. Blanco will also cover the psychological tactics used in hostage negotiations and what the human brain does when held captive park assist. We are grateful for you our listeners, you allow us to do what we love let us know how we're doing reach out on Facebook and Instagram at par cast and Twitter at par cast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you are listening. It really does help we also now have merchandise head to park cast dot com slash merch. For more information. This is our first episode on the kidnapping of forty nine year old socialite Virginia piper. From her home outside Minneapolis, Minnesota in nineteen seventy two on the afternoon of July twenty seventh Ginny as she was known was working in her garden when two masked gunmen kidnapped her in the ensuing. Forty eight hours her family and the FBI tried frantically to follow the kidnappers demands and pay the ransom hoping against hope that she'd survive this week will look at Virginia piper and her family the events surrounding her abduction and the initial response of her family, the FBI and the public next week will track how her husband Bobby piper and the FBI work to satisfy the detailed ransom demands. As Ginny fought to survive captivity. We'll also delve into the psychology of. A tense hostage situation and look at how this became one of the most unusual kidnappings in US history. In nineteen sixty eight four years before Ginny piper was taken a terrorist group known as the Popular Front for the liberation of Palestine or the PFLP hijack several airplanes flying around Europe in the Middle East. They held crew and passengers hostage in the hopes of getting both attention for the Palestinian plight and the release of hundreds of their fellow fighters. This event inspired a pandemic of kidnappings worldwide as desperate people seeking money freedom attention or even transportation to another country realize they could capture the world's attention by putting other people's lives at risk from their kidnappings and hijackings fill the news on a seemingly nightly basis. Db Cooper, Patty, Hearst, the October crisis in Quebec the normality store robbery in Sweden to name, but a few in fact, it became so common. And for planes to be hijacked and rerouted to Cuba that airlines began equipping each plane with flight paths to Havana in the likelihood they would eventually need them in the early nineteen seventies anyone in a position of money or power knew they were a potential target. And yet the piper families seemed blissfully unaware that they're wealthy socialite status. Put them in the line of fire after all they lived in Minnesota things like that just didn't happen there until they did no one actually knows who kidnapped Virginia piper shortly before the statute of limitations on the case ran out the FBI charge two men with the crime Kenneth Callahan and Don Larsen, but they were ultimately exonerated. And in many ways, they were never very good suspects with the only piece of evidence against them seemingly doctored by the F B I to frame them. What we do know. No is there were at least two men involved. And that they were both hefty middle aged guys who seemed to be of a working class background judging from their manner of speaking during her capture Ginny asked one of her captors questions about himself and the plan and she said, he volunteered some information. But admittedly, she wasn't sure if anything he told her was true, what he told her painted a picture of a Man Who Wasn't a career criminal who probably didn't even have a criminal record, though, he likely had friends who did he also made? It seem like there was a mastermind behind the whole operation controlling every moving part to keep them from getting caught. Ideally without anyone getting hurt. But whatever their reasons one thing is certain these re people who knew the piper family and their dealings intimately someone who felt wronged by the wealthy family and was eager to settle the. Score. And unfortunately for Jimmy they weren't picky about which piper. They took. Virginia piper was born on November twenty fourth nineteen twenty two the second of five glamorous sisters from a well-to-do Minneapolis family while the sisters were regular fixtures on the Minneapolis Saint Paul social scene, they didn't seek attention. They were so called accomplished young women of the inter war period who played musical instruments, Rhode horses played upper class sports and danced. Although they also went to public high schools in were raised to believe that giving back to their community was the most important thing they could do after getting married, even among this group Virginia always stood out. She was friendly and outgoing happy to talk to anyone in share her opinions. She had a magnetic quality after being chosen as homecoming Queen at our high school. She went to a two year women's college in Massachusetts on a music scholarship in nineteen forty. And when she returned to Minnesota two years later at age nineteen she married twenty four year old hairy piper. Whom everyone called Bobby Bobby a Princeton graduate. Also from Minneapolis seemed in many ways to be Jimmy's, antithesis, quiet and reserved. He avoided public attention and barely shared his emotions and personal thoughts with even his closest friends after serving in the army air corps in World War Two he returned home in nineteen forty six to join his father stockbrokerage piper Jaffray and Hopwood colloquially known as piper Jaffray when his father retired. Bobby became CEO of piper. Jaffray in grew it into a major investment firm that Jenny and Bobby where a team she was a crucial part of the landscape at piper Jaffrey, and in addition to advising Bobby on business matters often accompanied him. On business trips while she didn't have a job she joined the board of nearby northwestern hospital to which she dedicated a tremendous amount of time and energy, but despite Giannis, outgoing nature and dozens of close friends she enjoyed her privacy. She didn't want to be in the public eye any more than her husband did gossip and tabloids were for celebrities athletes and public figures, not for private citizens, however, wealthy or philanthropic. So they bought a five bedroom house on seven and a half acres of land in the quiet suburb of orono just outside the twin cities there they raised their three sons Harry tad and David I'm Jeannie loved working in her garden, and while many of their wealthier neighbors hired fulltime staff, the pipers never did they weren't ostentatious people, and they didn't even think of themselves as especially wealthy though. Oh, they did consider it important to give what money they did have back to their community. It never occurred to them that the comfortable life. They were developing would one day make them a target. Next. We'll see how Ginny went from housewife to hostage. Robin Hood is an investing Abdallah to buy and sell stocks ETF's options and cryptos all commission free. While other brokerages charge up to ten dollars for every trade. Robinhood doesn't charge any commission fees. See can trade stocks and keep all your profits. Plus, there's no account minimum deposit needed to get started. So you can start investing it any level. This simple intuitive design of robinhood makes investing easy for newcomers and experts alike view, easy to understand charts and market data and place a trade in just four taps on your smartphone. You can also use stop collections such as one hundred most popular with Robin Hood, you can learn how to invest in the market as you build your portfolio. Discover new stocks track your favorite companies and get custom notifications for price movements. So you never miss the right moment to invest Robin Hood is giving listeners of hostage of free stock like apple Ford or sprint to help you build your portfolio. Sign up at hostage dot, Robin, Hood dot com. What would you do to stay alive? Would you drink your own urine? Would you? Wait through snake infested water, which you cut off your own arm? Any of those things you might be surprised at the lengths you'd go to in order to stay alive and every week my new show survival tells the high intensity stories of people in life or death situations and explores the strategies they use to survive survival. Also, examines the lasting psychological effects of living through a traumatic event, and what it's like to return to normal life. You won't want to miss the astonishing story of one survivors heroin escape attempt from a North Korean internment camp. And there's the amazing account of a pilot and a passenger who were stranded in the snowy Canadian Yukon after a plane crash. Their stories exemplify the human spirits ability to triumph over deadly adversity. New episodes come out every Monday search for and subscribe to survival wherever you listen to podcasts again search survival or visit park cast dot com slash survival to listen now survival. How far would you go to stay alive? Now back to the story. By the time the summer of nineteen seventy-two rolled around. Bobby Ginny piper. Where a well. Established part of the Minneapolis. Saint Paul gentry the forty nine year old. Ginny would be called a socialite serving on the hospital board and regularly hosting events. Now, fifty four years old Bobby had a seat on the new York Stock Exchange board of governors in addition to heading piper Jaffray, the pipers were known for having an open door policy at their house in the well to do suburb of orono the front door was rarely locked as the neighborhood was generally considered safe and friends and relatives were constantly dropping by for Coffey a cigarette or one of Jimmy's famous cocktails the most regular visitors. Were Ginny sisters and their families all of whom lived in the area her four sisters, Charlotte. Carol Dana and Gretchen were all active in the Minneapolis social scene, though, it was Ginny and Charlotte known. Shy around whom the family congregated. And then there were the pipers three sons in nineteen seventy two the oldest twenty eight year old Harry see piper. The third held a degree in economics from Harvard. He had also completed law school at Stanford before taking a job in the Justice Department's civil rights division. He and his wife. Valerie had recently decided to move back to Minneapolis with their young son. Harry had spent the last several months studying for the Minnesota bar, which he took that summer wall. Harry was the oldest piper son and felt a tremendous amount of pressure from his parents who is also quite different from them and always felt a bit removed, especially from his father, a young man in the sixties and seventies. He was a progressive democrat while his parents were traditional Republicans. He also didn't share his parent's desire for privacy while in his twenties and thirties, he ran. Friends campaign for state office and considered running for congress himself. He would later go on to become a part time journalist and creative writer unafraid of putting himself out there. That summer was also the first in a while that Ginny had all her sons back in Minneapolis their youngest David age nineteen with whom Ginny was especially close had just finished his freshman year at Whittier College in Los Angeles. He was already planning to go to law school like his brother. But in the meantime, he was working summer job as a lifeguard and enjoying the break from school. Finally, the pipers twenty five year old middle son Addison known as tad had recently moved in along with his wife, Louise, whom everyone called weezer and their two young children. Tad had also studied economics and undergrad though at Williams College in Massachusetts, he followed in his brother's footsteps by going to Stanford for his MBA he promptly went into finance joining piper Jaffrey and settling into life in Minneapolis that summer tad in weezer were remodeling her childhood home. Which they'd recently bought from her parents. In the meantime, it made perfect sense to stay at tad's. Parents five bedroom house in orono. They already spent so much time there anyway for Ginny. It was a dream to be able to have her family all around her. The house was always lively and fun friends and relatives dropping by only added to the convivial atmosphere. David going away to college had been harder on Ginny than she'd intimidated while she'd always had plenty of her own activities going on having her youngest child leave the nest had prompted a lot of self reflection. Of course, her husband, Bob, you would never let on if he had felt the same crisis. But around the same time he enrolled at union feel article seminary in nearby new Brighton. He had no intention of becoming a minister, but he'd always been interested in philosophy and theology and wanted to chance to explore his interest further if Ginnie thought he was grappling with middle age and his kids growing up. She didn't let on she was relieved though that he didn't want to be a minister, she had never been religious. And this was one area where they couldn't connect. In fact, she found herself somewhat resenting, his dedication to the course, he threw himself into his studies with the same all consuming dedication that. He did all his work and interest from golf to the office to the exclusion of their family life Jimmy resented, how he prioritized his interest over her. Leaving her to manage everything else in their lives from the kids to the house to their social obligations. She tried to be a good wife, but she had a strong forceful personality in suppressing her feelings didn't come naturally when she finally tried to talk to Bobby about it. He didn't seem to understand or even want to of course, she knew he loved her. But he didn't get that. She also wanted to be able to explore her own goals and interests without having to always subsume her personality to his Jimmy reached her breaking point not long before the summer of nineteen seventy-two their son hairy later told journalist William Swanson that his mother threaten to leave his father in the heat of the moment. She went so far as to pack her bags and drive away showing Bobby just how serious she was. Ginny came back after cooling off and the two of them tried to work it out. But genie's resentment still simmered beneath the surface. Bobby tried to be more thoughtful, but he was traditional in his views of marriage expecting her to manage the bulk of family life while he was free to pursue his own work and interests. Ginny knew that he was never really going to change his stripes, and that she would never be a priority in the relationship, but that summer, bobbies classes and studying didn't bother her quite as much as usual since she had so many kids in grandkids around the house as the summer wore on Ginny settled into a nice routine. The extended family often had breakfast together. And Ginny enjoyed spending mornings playing with her two young grandsons. She worked in her garden a lot and had friends over for drinks and lunch she and her sister has dropped in on one another for catch up some coffee. She went to charity events hosted dinner parties and spent a lot of time working at the hospital. She didn't mind that Bobby had to go to New York for meetings every few weeks. In fact, she even. Chose not to go with him. Because there was so much going on in Minneapolis all in all it was a good summer. Thursday, July twenty seventh nineteen seventy-two started like any other Thursday after Bobby left for work Janin's two cleaning. Ladies Bernice Bechtold in Vernet Zimmerman arrive for their weekly. Visit Janie went to her hair and nails appointment in the nearby town of wise deta, then returned home for her standard peanut butter sandwich lunch. She had a board meeting later in the day at northwestern hospital. But until then her plan was to work in her beloved garden. It was a warn- languid summer afternoon. And the glamorous twin cities socialite was relaxed as she plucked dead flowers out of her garden, which made it all the more startling when shortly after one o'clock Bernice hurried out the back door flustered an upset. Ginny had no idea what was going on. But Bernice 's demeanor scared her. Her had something happened to one of her kids or grandkids. She hurried inside as soon as she stepped inside. She saw two large heavy set. Men identically dressed in dark clothes their heads covered with strange black and red masks, and they each carried two guns. One of them had a gun trained on Vernet the other cleaning lady and the other walked towards Ginny guns out. He ordered her to get Bernice back inside Janine kept her cool calling out the door to Bernice telling her it was okay. But when Bernice came back inside the men sat her in Vernet on dining room chairs in tape them down with clear packing tape. Ginny watched helplessly, then the men turned to her. They demanded to know if she was MRs piper, which she confirmed one of them asked. Where's your old, man? She told them he was. At the office. Ginny wasn't sure why they'd expect Bobby to be home some Thursday afternoons he'd go to New York for meetings or to the United theological seminary for his theology classes, but he was always out and about town bobby's absence seem to upset the men one of them rant at his frustration. Blaming the mistake on someone called chino, then they turn back to Ginny. And demanded to know where the safe was the pipers didn't have a safe. But Ginny worried that the invaders would be even angrier at that information told them she had a few pieces of jewelry upstairs that they could have the masked men weren't interested. Instead, they told her no MRs piper, you're going with us they handcuffed her and marched out the front door the barrel of a gun pressing into her back as they passed her purse. The man pushing her forward rifled through and took the six dollar bills in her wallet. The other man placed a white envelope. Labeled family atop the desk next to the living room door as they left the house. They told Bernice in Vernet to stay where they were in not to call. Anyone the men marched Ginny across the driveway to a green two door car? It took them a minute to figure out how to flip the passenger seat forward to allow Ginny to climb in the back seat before they drove off one of the men gave Ginny a pillowcase one of her own pillow cases are stomach turned as she realized that before making themselves known they'd gone into her bedroom. The man told her to put the pillowcase over her head and to lie down on the back seat. She didn't dare disobey him. According to a hostage negotiation specialist at UK firm, a FINA intelligence. This is the right approach to being kidnapped. They explain that a hostage is best chance of survival is to be passive and compliant, though, not submissive are weak Jenny's innate skills as a people person helped to recognize from the beginning that she shouldn't antagonize her kidnappers less. She anger them or give them a reason to hurt. Her Jimmy felt the car pull away from the house turn right at the end of the long driveway. And they were off she tried to follow the turns and keep track of where they were going or what roads they were on based on the car speed. But she quickly lost track of where they were the men barely spoke. Instead listening to what she assumed was a police radio, which she could barely hear what the men did say referred to police cars and road. Blocks when one of them started smoking Ginny realized how many hours it had been since her last cigarette and wish she could ask for one. Finally, the car picked up speed. And Ginny realized they were on a highway though, she had no idea what direction they were going, nor did she have any idea. How long it had been since they left the house all she could do was assume that Bernice and Vernet had managed to raise the alarm and hope that Bobby and the rest of her family had started looking for her. She just hoped she wasn't too lost to be found. Next will follow the first few hours of genie's captivity. Now back to the story. On July twenty seventh nineteen seventy seventy-two forty nine year old for junior piper's life changed in an instant one moment. The Minneapolis socialite had been gardening. The next she'd been marched out of her house at gunpoint. And now she was lying in the back seat of a car a pillowcase over her head has her kidnappers drove her somewhere, she hoped desperately that the two cleaning ladies the kidnappers had tied up in her house had managed to raise the alarm almost as soon as they heard the kidnappers car. Pull away Bernice Inver Neta started trying to escape the men hadn't taped them up. Very well and Bernice was able to pull her arms free and help Veneta do the same terrified that perhaps the men's accomplices were monitoring the phones or the house. The two women jumped into Vernet car to go for help the drove Jew. Genie's sister's house, which wasn't far away. The two women also cleaned house once a week four Jenny sister shy Morrison. So they knew and trusted. Her was the one who raised the alarm, I she called the Hennepin county sheriff and the whys at police then she called Bobby at his office as soon as he had all the details. He called the local F B I office, and then headed home to meet them and the police the FBI's jurisdiction in this case was technically questionable kidnapping only becomes a federal crime. If the hostages taken across state lines, however with the large number of kidnappings that had been happening in recent years, the FBI had become the defacto authority on handling kidnappings and their experience suggested that kidnappers often do take their hostages to other states, plus kidnappings require a rapid response for the best chance of finding the victim wasting time deciding jurisdiction. Would be a no one's best interest which meant that the FBI essentially ran cases from the beginning. After notifying the FBI, Bobby headed straight home to join the law enforcement officials and get straight to work the police set up a perimeter around the pipers property as well as checkpoints throughout the area. When Bobby arrived home at around one forty five pm, they finally found the white envelope. The kidnappers left with the ransom note inside. In the meantime, it took a while to track down the pipers three sons tad was at work at piper Jaffrey, though, he actually learned of his mother's of duck shin from his father secretary he was immediately concerned about his wife weezer and their two small children. Who would normally have been at his parents house that day by chance weezer taken the kids over to their new house to check up on the remodeling, thus missing the kidnapping entirely the youngest piper son, David had spent the morning working as a lifeguard after that he? I went to the DMV to get a motorcycle learner's permit. He only learned of his mother's abduction around three PM while he was driving home when a radio station broadcast in a -mergency bulletin reality sank in as he pulled into the driveway and saw all the cop cars, the oldest son. Harry was on a fly fishing trip in Montana. No one had any way of reaching him his wife and their son huddled with the rest of the extended family and hoped that he was okay. The ransom note was typed on a sheet of notebook paper, a surprisingly long, and detailed all caps missive that the F B I felt indicated a high degree of competence and planning on the part of the kidnappers. It started by stating that the ransom amount was one million dollars adjusted for inflation. That would be over six million dollars today. According to the FBI agents, this was the largest ransom demand ever. Made in the US up to this point the note went on to specify that the ransom money must consist entirely of USD twenty dollar bills divided into four separately wrapped packages of two hundred fifty thousand dollars each those four packages were to be put into a large draw string canvas or duck bag in a Brown or all of color and the note stressed the money and beg would be checked for tracking devices markings radio-activity and any other possible ways for the authorities to locate or trick ransom IRS if anything was found the hostage would not be returned. The money would have to be delivered tomorrow night by someone closely associated with the piper Jaffray firm that kidnapper would verify his or her relationship with the company before accepting the money, the note continued with a series of very detailed instructions as to how the delivery. Must take place including that, the delivers car must be registered to their home address that the money must be in the car's trunk that the car must have a full tank of gas, and that the deliverer must carry at least two hundred dollars on him as well as at least five times all of this would have to be prepared by nine thirty PM tomorrow night. When instructions for the delivery would arrive at the pipers house after that the person making the delivery would need to set out. Immediately kidnappers warned that police radio frequencies would be monitored. And if they suspected any foul play, they wouldn't complete the handover. In fact, if anything throughout the intricate delivery process deviated from their instructions, not only what the handoff not be completed. But the kidnappers would not be in touch again should the delivery be completed as described the purse. In making the delivery would be safe. If all went according to plan, they promised the safe release of the prisoner. It's six AM the following morning. Both Bobby and the FBI agents recognize the sophistication of the instructions in the note. Clearly, the kidnappers were familiar with the firm of piper Jaffrey and had specifically targeted the family. They may have originally hoped to kidnap, Bobby. But the lack of names in the note suggested they were prepared for an alternate hostage. If need be the FBI agents on the scene were concerned, they felt sure they were dealing with professionals hardened criminals, whom they needed to catch and stop less. They strike again. Despite being a pretty stoic, man. Bobby was scared. He didn't have a million dollars despite his job in finance the pipers weren't especially wealthy. And though he tried not to show it the clinical precision of the kidnapper. Demands sent a chill down his spine. But there was no way he was going to let them kill Ginny. So he decided right. Then that he would figure out a way to follow the instructions to the letter if that's what it took to get his wife back the FBI agents tried to explain to him that catching the kidnappers was just as important as rescuing Ginny. But Bobby wouldn't hear it? He wouldn't do anything to jeopardize Ginny safety, even if that meant losing money, he didn't even have and letting the kidnappers go free this frustrated the FBI agents who wanted to send their own men to do the drop off or at least lay a trap for whoever picked up the money. But they knew that if they pushed Bobby too hard. It could backfire their jurisdiction over the case was tenuous with no one actually knowing if the kidnapping was a federal crime, and they didn't want to risk getting pushed off it. The agents decided to choose their. Battles. Meanwhile, Ginny and her kidnappers continued their drive lying handcuffed in the back seat pillowcase over her head. She had no idea where they were or how long they'd been driving. She was getting stiff and asked for permission to roll over which one of the men agreed to if only she could ask for a cigarette to after a while one of the men told her to sit up they had to make a tape recording for her husband explained telling her what to say he made a repeat it back to him before sticking a small microphone under the pillow case for her to speak into she told Bobby that she was fine. And that the men were taking good care of her and that he needed to follow their instructions, and then she laid out the specific instructions the man had given her for what Bobby should do tomorrow when he heard the recording. She repeated them once again for good measure when she finished the men told her to lie. Back down and the drive continued Jenny didn't really know what to do. There was no way she could escape the best. She could hope for was that. If she followed their instructions, she'd be okay, and hopefully, Bobby would follow whatever ransom instructions they left. She also hoped that the ransom wasn't too big thinking of their savings account. She figured Bobby wouldn't be able to find more than fifty thousand dollars or so, of course, Ginny had no idea just how much more than that. They'd asked for she wasn't really afraid though, the men hadn't heard her at all and hadn't seen cruel. But then after what felt like ours the car slowed and turned off the road it stopped in the wheels seem to spin as if the car was stuck possibly in mud. Genie's head raised with possibilities of where they might be a farm or the middle of nowhere somewhere. No one would hear her scream. That's for sure. The men pulled her out of the back seat by her arms. The pillowcase still over her head. She stepped into wet grass that went up past her ankles, it was raining lightly. Ginny started to shiver one of the men led her forward up a hill through the wet grass. She slipped in what felt like mud her garden. Sandals. Unable to get traction as night fell the light leaking through her pillowcase seem to fade and she felt far colder than she had before. Ginny had lost all sense of time. How long it had been since the gunman showed up at our house to the drive around in circles or were they hundreds of miles from Minneapolis. Even now the walk seem to stretch on though, she felt they couldn't actually be going that far where were these men taking are to their boss some criminal mastermind to a hideout to her death wordlessly? She trudged onwards tepidly truck. Getting the man leading her. Although to what ends she did not know. Next week on hostage will follow Ginny. As she awaits her fate trapped in the wilds of Minnesota with one of her kidnappers will also track the lengths to which Bobby went in order to satisfy the kidnappers demands. And we'll take a quick look at how the kidnappers somehow managed to get away with the kidnapping. You can listen to hostage and all of par casts. Other podcast on apple podcasts. Spotify Stitcher, Google play cast box tune in or your favorite podcast directory ruby back next week. In the meantime, don't take your freedom for granted. Hostage was created. By max Cutler is a production of Cutler media, and is part of the par cast network. It is produced by Maxon Ron Cutler sound design by Kerry Murphy with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller additional production assistance by Maggie admire in carlee Madden. Hostages written by Kate doormen in stars Irma Blanco and Carter, ROY. Don't forget to listen to my news show survival. It looks through the eyes of the world's most resilient survivors as their self preservation instincts are pushed to the limit shirt a search for and subscribe to survival wherever you listen to podcasts, and please don't forget to rate and review.
Blessing Ginny Weasley
"We wanted to let you know about an exciting opportunity. There is currently one spot available for Charlotte Bronte, gene, air pilgrimage in the West Yorkshire moors this summer from June second to June eighth. You can learn more at Harry Potter sacred texts dot com by clicking on the orange button. That says more about our pilgrimages. Taivon higher Yanna. Come to the women Perry Potter in the sacred Tech's tank, you I love it here. It's pretty great. Yeah. The music so good. Well, the NASA it is your turn to bless wonderful woman of Harry Potter who are you using this week Jenny Weasley, God bless her. I'll love myself some Jenny. I'm an bless Jimmy for something very specific, which we did actually just hack about on r-maine podcast, but I'm excited to get into a lot more detail here, which is I think that we are in a very exciting moment of retailing old stories about women retailing them with the women at the center of the story. Right. We are retailing. The lorraina Bobbitt story not about her husband and what happened to him. But about her as a domestic violence victim were retelling, the Bill Clinton, Monica Lewinsky scandal, not as a story of, you know, Monica Lewinsky as some like vapid adulterous, but rather as a victim of mass media where retelling these stories about women, right? And sometimes it goes, well, and sometimes it goes really badly, Christina blassie Ford just had to stand up in front of congress and retail of terrible story about her life, and it felt like on some level. She was heard and then on other levels. She was not heard, and I'm just seeing Jenny in this moment that we just read about in book five in which Harry is worried that he's being possessed by voldemort. And she says don't you think you should have asked me about this the one person, you know, who's actually been possessed by voldemort, and Harry says, oh, I'm sorry. I forgot and she says lucky you. And I think that Ginny teach us a lot about how beneficial it is when we have women retailer stories and how traumatizing and difficult. It is to demand that they retailed the stories of the hardest parts of their lives. Yeah. Geneva. So interesting in these books because she has a huge development as a character. She starts as annoying younger sister who has a huge crush on Harry. She has this huge moment in the second book where we're totally focused on her at the end of the book and the way in which she's possessed and her near death as we've mentioned she then disappears. And she reappears as this charming funny. Object of Harry's desire. I would disagree. I think you missed a step. Really? I think that she reappears as. This like fully realized strong woman, and then becomes at the object of Harry's desire. She's like dating other people, right, right? Like, she Harry. It takes a while for her to enter Harry's consciousness in this way. Yeah. Because in the book were currently in she is not in that spot. She reappeared as like popular funny. Ginny Weasley, who's good at quitted, and who has friends of her own that aren't the trio, but it's still Powell's with her Miami. And is able to be friends with her former crush, which I think is amazing anyway. Yeah. And I I think it's so interesting that you zoomed in on this moment of retelling and hurt for Jenny. Because I think what you're pointing to is is one of the few moments that we see her reference back what happened to her in the second book. And I think it's so easy in the later books to forget what happened to her. And I think one of the great gifts in spending some time just focusing on Jenny is thinking about everything. Happened to her and like how that plays into her larger story line, and how she negotiates her sense of self in relationship to that. And I also am beginning to wonder if part of the reason that Ginny sort of disappears for a few bucks is because afterward done with victims as entertainment fodder, they disappear from our lives for a while. Right. Monica. Lewinsky was everywhere in the news. And then we didn't think about her for twenty years. And then she reemerged like a Phoenix with the Ted talk and an article about bullying, and she was just this fully realized other person to us and again, Lorena Bobbitt was this joke forever. And for twenty years. We didn't think about her and she's reemerged as the domestic violence advocate in what I love about. Ginny is that unlike these characters who for us are just characters in sort of pop culture in the popular imagination like for me. The only things I will ever really know Monica Lewinsky, Christine, blassie, Ford, Anita hill, four are the worst moments in their lives in Ginny is someone who we know the worst moment in her life, and we get to know all these other things about her. And so I guess I'm blessing Ginny for being an avatar for these other wonderful strong women and to try to separate their status victim from all the other wonderful things that they are. I think let's beautiful. I also wonder like the Sousa book from Harry's perspective. And I think sometimes in the retelling specifically like you mentioned, the Monica Lewinsky story like how lovely that. She went through this terrible thing. And now, she's this empowered woman who has a Ted talk. And like we don't see the way in which she struggled to get there. And the way in which her life was obliterated by the story. And I do wish that we had more of that. With Ginny that we got to see in the negotiation of this terrible thing, and and her struggle to become the hyper confident woman who she later is because I don't want Ginny to be the like, oh this terrible thing happened. But then she triumphed. And then she's great. Yeah. And how great is that for us to read? Absolutely. I think maybe part of what I'm blessing her for is the time that she was gone and the and the fact that like, we don't know what. She went through right? I'm guessing there was a lot of crying on Mali's lap. I'm guessing there were a lot of moments of despair. Right. Like, I'm guessing that there is a lot of pain. And so I would imagine that a lot of our listeners might be in those despair moments before the sort of like Phoenix reemerging moments that we see these people for. And so, yeah, I think that's right. I can't imagine how much pain she was in right? In part of the reason that we know she was absent exactly to your point. You know, it's from Harry's point of view. She was probably avoiding Harry, probably voiding him for being embarrassed for being so in love with him for being embarrassed for being rescued by him for being at her most vulnerable in front of him. Right. Like, I understand why she has disappeared from Harry. And how awful it is that after one of the most painful incidents in your life. You then feel like you have to disappear let so lovely to pictu-. Ginny crying in Mali's lap. I love you conjuring that for me specifically that helps me because I think the great bane of Geneva's existence throughout the books is that she is the youngest. And she's the only girl, and I think she often feels patronized and like she's not included in the circle in. I think an interesting way to reread that as like, Molly almost lost her like. There was a threat on her life as a child, and they're so protective of her later in the books because the reality of losing her with so real that they're trying to keep her safe in those following books. Yeah. I mean, Molly definitely like the greatest line in the whole series. Right. Not my daughter. You bet like that line is earned for Molly. Like she has almost been taken from her once before. And I think that there's this sense of like Fred dies Percy's been taken away from her for a long period of time. And for Molly, there's this like last straw of like, but not my daughter, and I feel that right? Like as the only girl in a family of multiple, boys. The special kinship between my mother, and I yeah. And I think Julia so brave and chief fight so hard against that narrative of herself like she isn't supposed to be fighting in the final war. She's underage. She's supposed to be in the room of requirement. But she she leaves. She leaves to go fight. And she's always taking that brave step out to be at the forefront to recreate the DA when Harry has left her wanting to be this big strong person as a Phoenix as you say like out of the fire of being so victimized in the past is beautiful. And Molly saying like, no, you are my daughter. I just want you to be safe is so beautiful, and like those things in conversation with one another is tug and pull and is also like an incredible testament to the women in this book in their power to fight and to protect and to try and keep everyone safe. Yeah. I really appreciate because I did I came in to bless Jenny for the lucky you moment. But I think that based on our conversation, I'm shifting. I wanna bless her for the books that we don't hear about her. Ginny had to go through so much healing in order for her to reemerge the way that she does and be able to say to the boy who in book two we talked about it. It's like the most embarrassing thing that ever happened. Right. Like, she just wakes up one morning, and the boy she's in love with his in her kitchen. She can't even talk and then later to be able to look at him and be like lucky you. Between those two moments. She gets kidnapped and assaulted by voldemort, and then is silent. I just that. Silence. Was not quiet. Yeah. I mean, everything we see out of that is productive. Right. Like, she goes from wanting to be a part of the trio to like, abandoning them to have her other friends at Hogwarts. So we know that she's building friendships we know that she's identifying and listening to some of the weaker smaller characters in the text. She goes to the you'll ball with Neville, she encourages the trio and Neville to sit in the car with Luna love good and says, she's not so bad. She's just a little weird. And like every moment that someone tries to laugh at Luna. She's there to like push forward and be kind and be a friend to her. She's just like the ideal of the popular girl. Right. Like, we have this concept of the pop. Girl as being mean, and egotistical and vain and Ginny is so kind and so insightful and inclusive. And so beloved she is both like this fantasy for us of what it can be to come out of trauma. But also, I think what you're pointing to the silence. As a gesture towards the to how it isn't just a fantasy. How you can't just go from trauma right into being a terming wonderful whole popular woman that like there is a period of darkness right in the middle of that one of the things I would say that you're amazing analysis just pointed to to me is that to some extent. Ginny is the perfect victim. Which is something that I'm sort of excited that we as a culture getting away from right that the district attorney of Chicago, you know, just recently did a press conference about going after R Kelly and asking for victims of our Kelly to step forward. I which she said we are no longer looking for the perfect victim proving a criminal case against our Kelly. Does not mean that you have to, you know, have some sort of like sterling record and be totally innocent. You know, these situations are complicated. In part of the reason that women have been afraid of coming forward in situations. Like Jenny's is that oh, but I had a crush on him to. I said yes to the date, but not to whatever happened after I had had too many beers is if that somehow makes you complicit in your own crime, and I'm so excited that we're moving away from that narrative and saying that you don't have to be an, you know, a blonde white angel six year old who was taken from your bed in order to be a victim worth listening to and a victim were being treated with dignity in you know, engineers. She's the perfect dictum. Will I think though, I think maybe she's not because I think when we imagine are victims we want them to be ruined right for them for their whole lives to be torn apart. By this thing, that's happened to them for them to have lost all of their opportunities that were in front of them. Them. Unlike good for Jimmy that. She didn't. Yeah. But like sh- both this happened to her and it sucked. And like we wish this never happened to her. And she is incredible. And she is a leader. And she has pulled her life together in this miraculous way. And that doesn't mean it didn't happen to her. But she was able to do it. Well, and she's going to remind you she's hasn't forgotten about it. Right. When Harry says I forgot she says lucky you write that you get to forget I don't ever get to forget. And I think that that is right. That that is one way that again, she's an amazing example for us that you don't have to be ruined in order for what happened to you to be awful into stay with you. Yes. Well, thank you so much for blessing Jenny with me. Oh my gosh. Thank you for bringing Ginny to me to bliss. Do you have a game for us? Would we have a game? Yes. I thought I bring us a little bit of a silly game. Because I knew that we were going maybe be talking about a heavy subject. Great. Ginny would approve Ginny loves silliness to break tension. So drew and this game isn't even that educational. So I'm really breaking my mold of games that I'm Britain te'o. Okay. I'll be the judge. I'm not forcing you to learn anything about the history of feminism in America. Oh, that's too bad. What I am forcing you to do is examined some stereotypes that you have about younger siblings. Oh boy. Do I ever I'm a middle sibling? So we're going to play a game where I give you a famous group of a mistrial of famous quartet. I'm going to ask you, which of these people is the youngest great. I'm going to be so good at. Well, we'll see the first group I'm bringing to you the Beatles, which of the Beatles. Do you think is the youngest? Okay. So the least impressive would be the youngest which is Ringo wrong. Oh, the most impressive is the youngest. It's John also wrong. Is it George George? She's my favorite three. Should. I is that how I should guess the rest of them. Should I just tell you my favorite? I think that actually might work for you looking at my list. Really? Okay. Great. Georgia's my favorite. What do you like about George? He wrote. Here comes the sun, which is my favorite Beatles song. Yeah. That's true. I was going to tell you about a piece of trivia. But you already knew sorry. It's not just one of my favorite Beatles songs. It is one of my all time favorite songs. All right. Let's take another try at this very new better. Okay. How about the Marx brothers? Do. You know, who the Marx brothers are? Should we explain for the audience? I know you know, who the marksville as are. I was like as a Jew from Los Angeles. I find that question offensive. The Marx brothers are one of the greatest comedy family families of all time. They did duck soup. Yeah. Kind of vaudeville ask a little bit late vaudeville one of the first times. My parents. Let me leave the house by myself was to walk to our local revival theater and see Marx brothers double feature. That's the most Arianna story. I've ever heard. Which marks brother? Do you think is the youngest Harpo is the best? So I think it's Harpo. That's also wrong. Harpo sad clown. What is it about Harpo? That makes you think he's the youngest. He's the best. You will. Yeah. You said that you thought my favorites. Would you just have the wrong favorite is Groucho your favourite? Yeah. Yeah. I I love Groucho. It's kinda also a trick question. Zepos technically youngest. But who cares about that? Can I tell everybody my favorite? Gotcha marks quote, go for it. It includes my two favorite things books and dogs outside of a dog. A book is a man's best friend inside of a dog. It's too dark to read. That's why he's my favorite. So so wise, most of my high school career was just pretending Groucho Marx quotes where my own really. Recently. I saw elephant my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas? I'll never know. Gotcha. Great Zepos the youngest. Okay. So sometimes it's my favorite and sometimes the most inconsequential who interesting. All right. Here's one for you. Yeah. You live Grey's anatomy. He do so much. We're gonna do agrees anatomy as a sacred text show whenever we have four hundred years to do it. So I tried to look up who the youngest on Grey's anatomy is in. You know, the thing about TV is that they have a lot of writers and a lot of seasons. And no one can get dates straight. This is true. So what I can tell you is the youngest actor in the first season of Grey's anatomy. So we're talking about the youngest between is e George Alex Meredith in Christina. I've never seen the show. But that's right. And we're talking about which of those actors is the guest. Yes. And you said, it's my favorite. This one. I can't tell you. Because again, I've never seen the show. Well, let's just I want to talk about Sandra. Oh, so let's say it's Sandra is she the youngest the only thing that makes you think Sandra. Oh, is that she's your favorite? Yeah. I feel like we've destroyed the game. Okay. So youngest sibling. So I I happen to know the Ellen Pompeo who plays Meredith is much older than she looked. So I know it's not car George has a real baby face. So I think he might be the youngest the right answer is Katherine Heigl who I believe plays someone named Izzy. That is true. Whoa. She is in fact, like six years younger than the rest of her cast. She was a wee lass. Yeah. Does that surprise you? What's the point in this game? It's interesting. I don't know that surprises me, she quit first. So she was the most immature of the actors. That's some kind of logic. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. My last one. Yeah. Scooby doo gang. Oh, so it's vowel Ma. Well, it Scooby and shaggy, and it's fell MMA Daphne, and then there's Fred. You know, I'm going to say that shaggy looks like the most stunted. So he's actually the oldest. That is correct. Yes, we're saying scooby's not the youngest. 'cause we're counting dog ears. Right. So he I think scooby's supposed to be like seven years old to he's actually forty nine. Right. So he's an old putt. So handsome loves Scooby Velma and Daphne. Both just seem so mature I'm going with Fred it actually is Vilma. Vilmos the youngest. She's like precocious. Oh, good for her bomas. The Ginny of that story. I mean, Scooby doo is a sacred text. Who let's the Scooby doo Scooby dooby meeting. Where are you as a sacred taxed? Yeah. Well, thank you for playing this game. Yeah. It was a great game. Thank you for making it up. You're welcome. I'll talk to you in two weeks. You'll be mine turned to bless. You can hear that episode on patriot. This episode of the women of Harry Potter in the sacred. Text was produced by Nazari productions are music is by Nick goal oriented Martinez. Had this week off. Good work. Yada martinez. I'm sure they're doing great whatever they're doing out there. We are excited to announce a special new edition of the orbiting human circus season. One presented by WNYC studios. In knightdale presents with episode by episode behind the scenes commentary and a director's cut of the season finale here writer, Julian postures, complete vision for the end of season one for the very first time to keep you company while OH see is hard at work on season to listen and subscribe to the orbiting circuits now wherever new get your podcasts.
Ginny Ulch & Donna Author and Reader The Value of Feeding Your Childs Mind
"Thursday or is it Tuesday. When you're commuting to work the days can really blend together? But what if your day is filled with something more. What if you could work on interesting? In technical problems with the latest and data and machine learning and collaborate on products that impact millions at capital one. You can get more from your tech career explore open roles in AI. Yeah I cloud software and more at capital one career dot com slash engineering capital. One is an equal opportunity employer female disability Veterans Sexual Orientation Gender Identity Hi everybody it's Rhonda Cobb the money coach and welcome to our show. We're GONNA have a really special show today and I know you're you're gonNA love it. This is such an opportunity for me but a week ago I was having a snack with the brandon then he was recounting the trauma of having teacher in school. That was so mean to him until him he would never amount to anything and I thought that was horrible and I said well. That wasn't a very good teacher besides that she was dead wrong because my friend is very successful successful consultant so I thought of instantly the guests that we are going to talk to today. So Ginny is an author of children's books. She's also works in a school as a school counselor and psychologist. She writes these positive books to help children that are facing difficult situations and they help with really important things like bullying and self esteem name and what it's like to be adopted or in buster care or having specific conditions that the other kids don't all share and loss us so and then after these books are sold she donates proceeds to organizations as well. So it's a really awesome thing and it's really good. Edited Have Ginny on our show and she has brought with her a special guest who later in the show is actually going to read for us one of the books so make sure everybody feel welcome. Hi Janie and hike down and how are you guys today. High run a great. Thank you as some. We'll tell us what made you decide to write that very first book. There must have been something that just made you decide. You know what I have got to write right some books for my kids well and I always role as a child. That was how I work through problem so I would write poetry. Ed writes songs and it helped me cope with the teenage years. And then I put it on the back burner when I got older and got busy. But when I was in my twenties I wrote a book and I gave it to Nellis straighter in the illustration sort of horrible and. I didn't want to hurt their feelings so I just put it away in kind of gave up on it and then when I adopted my kids and the baby raccoon I couldn't find a book to help children who are being adopted after that were older and had relationships with their birth families so those are unique issues and I had nine hundred pictures pictures of bandit the raccoon so made a perfect subject for my book and I was able to write about those things to help my kids to their the specific situation in. I'm a school counselor. So I- encounter kids have all kinds of issues and I thought well I can write books to help them. Most of my books have a child version and then they have a professional version to help parents and educators so my love series all have love in the tidal and I use animals to show that animals have personalities ladies and to promote empathy for animals as well as people and that's kind of where it all started and then I still. I wanted to help in other ways so I do donate books and stuffed animals to Children's services and I've donated books to the score counselors I am TPS. I have a new book right now. Called saved by love from rescue dog to Rack Star and how his life life changed when he was adapted he it also gently talks about abuse and how it's important for children to ask her if they're being hurt and and so. This book just came out. I'll get the actual hard copies on Friday and then I'm gonNA donate a portion of the proceeds to the local Komo rescues. That's cool. That's so neat so With with a new book coming out on Friday where you know where where we can go to get this book because now I gotTa go look for a book. It's available on Amazon and it's called saved by love from rescue dog to rack star Dr in its under Virginia Alz. ULC H. I have heart to heart resources on facebook. And it's the number two. Okay my mom. Teachers pay teachers so there are a lot of sources to get it and I'll be doing a live book signing at Hap- Franklin Park December fourteenth as well L. Cool. I'll have to come out and see that you know the attlee all the other books. Now there are step world join saved by love that deal with different things and The win that's really sense really is love you teddy. Tell us a little bit about Libya. Titi love you tell the has an actual bear family from Alaska. My Dad was a wildlife photographer and and he had gone on a trip and came home and had all these pictures of air and I about eight of them who I can make a story out of that. That one's a little more serious because it deals with loss and all the emotions that go along with a laws and all all of the children in the family being small bear They all deal with it differently and they have to learn that not. Everyone deals with loss. Awesome the same way. I'll bad it is and I know your dad was great tiger for I have some of his pictures laying around here. The Imam turned into You know those gift cards. Yep Yep a Hick and some of those at some point along away and they're just beautiful. I remember he took beautiful pictures but I think this is so good for the kids to be able all to have books that enable them to see that they're not alone in the world and it's such a valuable thing for adults like us and grandparents inherent parents and teachers to really take the time and the effort to feed our children's minds lines and their self esteem. Can you know you're far more qualified to talk about that. Tell us it's a little bit about how important that is to the care and upbringing of a child that they have some time just to be not a kid well and it is really important especially in this. That's why the topics of the book Are the ones that I chose I could child with. Adhd they get redirected in corrected so many times a day that it's hard on their self esteem in children in foster care. They're going through a lot of issues. Was it my I fall. What did I not do? Kids who are bullied They internalize that so in the books. I love you anyways the HD book I put famous people who have or had adhd so they can see that. Oh my gosh you know. They had this in their famous. Their singer there. An Act of their meaty and Same with foster care but famous people who were in foster care where dominated and bully fish I have a list of famous people who learnt cooling school. And there's so little blurb by each of those people about when they were bullied done what they did to cope with it so the kids feel like I am not alone. These people went through this and look where they are now. So that's a big thing with me is to make sure so that the kids see that. There's nothing wrong with them that then valued because they need that absolutely every single one of them needs. It's that think back to you know when we were in school and we didn't really have school counselors then but somewhere somewhere along the way there would be that one teacher that you might remember. It was so supportive. Did it just and then yeah. You can do that when I instead of the teacher like my friend was disguised saying that. You can't what do that you can't you know you you'll never amount to anything You Know How could you possibly be and I would think that would would apply to. Oh say one hundred percent of the students that would be one thing. You should probably never say two again. in everybody Eddie needs that person that believes in them. Oh absolutely. Don't you still remember the people that were. They're the ones that believed in you. My third grade teacher see. That's who comes to mind my teacher Mrs English. That is so funny and ethic behind was obsessed grade teacher Mrs Euler. She was awesome. Choose choose just like well no you can do whatever you set your mind to do go do it. And and and that was the first the first I'd heard of that again. Oh Okay uh-huh I had no idea up until then liquid she started. I'm sure she's passed by now. She was the funnest thing. Oh my goodness so we want to make sure we save enough time for permits Miss. Donna Donna don't you read the stories I need you to for. I do okay so we want to make sure are. We have plenty of time for you to read the story. You're gonna read for as because the listeners are gonna Wanna be able to have the kids with them to Listen to the story. So are you about ready. Oh sure let me have a takes about five minutes okay. Great well this is appropriate time. Then we can. We can start and you're gonna read happy to be me. Is that the one we're reading reading. Yes it is awesome. I can't wait to hear whenever you're ready to give a quick nick. Can't going to give a quick intro to Donna. Does this league background. I meant Donna when she was doing doing prevention programs at my school and I walked in and for classroom presentations and her excitement. And the voices uses for contagious so I asked her to read the books for my videos and then we connected with Tom Oversight because producer commercials and he volunteered to create the videos and so Donna reeves all of them It's a heart heart Kurt. Resources is our youtube channel. We have three of them. Currently that are Love the I love you anyway and bully fish so so you will have to check her out to the mazing in. She's going to read that first book that I wrote that buried for twenty years. Oh all right Diana yeah well thank you Jimmy Okay. Happy to be be me by Virginia. Many years ago there was a happy beehive. Everyone in the high was happy except Hannah. A little worker bee. She was unhappy because she wanted to to be the Queen Bee. She's getting ready to fly away and start her own beehive when she ran into a Wi fi. Where you going little one said the wise is be? I am going to start my own behind. I want to be the clean. said the little be the wise the told the little one that it would be very hard to to live without the help of others but she didn't believe him. The whys the sat the little went down to tell her story. Once upon a time there were many letters in alphabet one letter the letter P wanted to run away to the letter Z heard about this and talked with a little letter. He explained that all all of the letters have to work together to make a word said why be. The little letter was angry because she didn't like having to do with the other letters did she. He wanted to go off by herself. So the told little P. to try to make a word without using the help of any other letters key kept trying to make Inca word that all the came out was this chest isn't fair cried little P no one will understand the if I can't I can't say anything. Sometimes things don't seem fair but when we choose to make the best out of our situation we have a much happier life when we choose. Choose to be angry. We have an unhappy life and make the people around US unhappy to we're confidence. There are many of us but we still need bottles. There are only five sometimes. Six of them A. E. Pi. Oh you and sometimes why. The owls are very busy. I can't would without vowel try and you will see says the try to call that lady bug over there. Her name is Pat. Nothing's happening she caught me so mammals and things are meant to live alone but some of three made you work work as a gene said. Why be little be was excited? She thought she was beginning to understand. Why can't I the queen chest? I I would like to be the one. Everyone thinks it's important. You are important answered the wise the all of us are important for we all have the job to do to make everything work together. Why is the went back to his story? You see pe- wanted to be the magic e I. I want to be nasty. Because she's the most important lever she can make val say their name. She gets to be an wounding and she gets to make. Corogne sound said P. P.. I know it seems unfair but look at all the work that he has to do if she isn't there to do her job people people say the wrong word for example. If I wanted to tell someone I hope they have a nice day and I forgot magic e I would tell them I hot. They have a nice stay. I'd sound pretty silly. So you see e hardly ever gets to take a break. You also can't make a word without health. No matter how important she he is there are some butters like K. G. that gets to be in the beginning of words and they can't even dog they just have to sit there he and g never we know what they are going to sound like until someone puts a vowel after them. I think I understand peace at happily. My life is not so bad I am important I think will be very proud of myself and my job because it helped me. People wouldn't have lots of imported was like take ponied pizza and puppies. Okay okay I think I got the idea. Little be listened to the rest of the story. She said Heiki Wise. Be Because of you. I learned about letters and I learned that everyone is important. No matter how big or small their job is. I think we have to work together to make a high ask little be. Yes just like that answered why the little be went back to work very happy. The and that was awesome. I loved it. I hope everyone else did too. Yeah that was so good with so many good examples. Yeah and all the different ways your agency that is so oh good. She's amazing. She has voices for every character in every book. I I think that's awesome. That is just really really awesome. I know I used to when my kids were little and I in retail VENERO voices and Wednesday. I kind of had a cold. My voice just wouldn't do it. You know and my my little daughter talk to me Mommy. You sound like a frog and you're messing up the story. Oh Wow that how about if you read to me. That we're she's mommy. I am only three. You know I do not know how to read body eighty delirious. I think she really didn't know how to read. 'cause Dad tried to skip a page and she told me I was skipping pages so I think she had to shit. You're out pretty young. That is so cool. Can you imagine how wonderful the world would be all the little kids got to hear stories like that on a regular basis you know and and they would realize the. It's okay just to be themselves whole story. Yeah at any. Just keep writing and writing arriving and things and oh you forgot to tell us about the little cushy critters that come with them did they go in they set brat well they can be purchased to go along. What the book and Boy that was a lot of work to find creatures and pledges that go with each character of the book so so I have several different sources and There are starfish to go with belief says and a little be to go with happy to be me the and then to different raccoons and a bear plush Usually will do those at my live shows because when you buy 'em off Amazon you get the book but it doesn't have the plush with it. Okay all right but I just thought it was so so cute. 'cause I seen a picture on facebook. You must have been a live show. 'cause you were at a table in the books in the pleasures were on the table and it was really good display. I thought that it was really cute. How the books came with the Little Dilatot squishy go at the? You know the little play she so the kids can carry their book in their little animal with them wherever they go. My goal role now is to find a golden retriever. To go with saved by love. Had Smell cowering the Internet for just the right. Golden Retriever I that must be quite the job. Yeah you WANNA plus you another real one right correct I we have a real one. He's the character in the bar. His name is Chris Barron. He's a hundred and twenty pound golden retriever. He's he's huge and he's quite the character so he is the main character of the book. Did they how did he gets big. I don't now He was a rescue dog. I think he's just a mutant or something. Because I have another golden retriever. And she's only sixty five pounds us. Can they say. That's that's very large for a retriever. Isn't it yes when we went to the rescue with a harness. Okay well in. He was injured so in. That's part of the Book Doc Because he was arrested dog and Needed hip and knee surgeries and So zoey is is a rescue dog. She's a Golden Ingraham's bears rescue dogs and they make up the majority of the book along with some of my other crazy crazy critters like my cats and my bird and But grits doesn't work real well because of his injuries so it was always usually way out front. Grizzlies tagged along behind. Well so that means he's probably not sast enough to drag you because she's a dog that sizes big as you exactly the polling and Grizz dragging behind they balance me out. Oh there you go see your arms get stretched to equal links out exactly awesome. We'd like stretch Armstrong. Oh that's awesome. Oh my goodness okay so we have the couple of minutes left. I went to tell everybody again how to get the books. Because I know that they're all just GonNa WanNa let me repeat repeat all of the titles I of course we just heard happy to be me. And then there's love bandit the one about about foster care love you teddy. The story of Lawson hope about the little bears. I love you anyway. which is a story about a little raccoon name tag along who has adhd and then there's bullied fish rush? Who is the story of a little fish that has a bullying problem and the newest one is the golden retriever? Were saved by love story so tell us tell people how to get these books so they can read to their children and let them know that they're they're really good books out there in the world. Thank you Amazon is the easy source was under Virginia Alz. ULC H Facebook you can. There's also links to Amazon and the heart to hurt our resources on facebook. And it's the number two. I have a website. H. Two H.. Resources Dot Com. And if someone is a professional or a teacher there's teachers pay teachers and my products and my books are on teachers. Pay pitchers L.. How cool okay? Well that is awesome. You guys that has been such a way to have you and and I know that with the holidays and everything. It was a bit of a stretch to get you and and to have our but we have certainly enjoyed it and we wish you all the best on your new book and A really good holiday season people buying books for their kids because these are such such important books for them to have. Thank you for having us. Thank you for being here and now you know what I always say before we leave everyone. It's been so nice to have Jenny Dina here and to hear the story but remember what I always tell you before we go be grateful and you will attract good things and until next time. I'm Rhonda Cobb the money coach Thursday there's Day or is it Tuesday when you're commuting to work the days can really blend together but what if your days were filled with something more. What if you could work on interesting technical problems with the latest and data and machine learning and collaborate on products that impact millions a capital? One you can get more from your career explore open roles in. Ai Cloud software and more at capital one career dot com slash engineering capital one is an equal opportunity employer females disability veterans sexual orientation gender identity Thursday or. Is it Tuesday. When you're commuting to work? The days can really blend together. But what if your days were filled with something more. What what if you could work on interesting technical problems with the latest data and machine learning and collaborate on products that impact millions at capital one? You can get more from your tech. Career explore floor open roles in A._I.. Cloud software and more at capital one careers dot com slash engineering capital. One is an equal opportunity employer female male disability veterans sexual orientation gender identity.
Ep. 465 - Trent365! - Authenticity Vs Accessibility
"Tonight episode four hundred and sixty five I wanna look at the balance between authenticity and exists ability. Here on the sheen cans in station here in my Oko waiting for the train back to Tokyo, just spend a couple of days here ski resort. And it struck me this idea of often to city because like many resorts, Japan, this particular place has gone on sin. And it also happens to have a large percentage of guests coming from strata. And when I walked into the in with the management of the hotel. I said, surely, you don't get too many ozzy's coming to use this facility because the onset culture demands that you basically fully naked once you're in there, and my guess would have been that many ozzy's would feel uncomfortable with that total nakedness thing, of course, the management said, no, no, they understand. This is Japanese culture. And this is the way it's done and they fine with it. But then when I asked them to check with the staff, the staff, of course, told them a different story and the staff said that many Australians come in. They want to use the on sand. The when they find out the rules of the on-scene, which is total nudity. They walk back out because they just don't feel comfortable, and it raises an interesting question about how much you force or. Intensity versus how much you allow some subtlety some variations on to allow others to access it, essentially because the onset is really not accessible to many of these stray market just because they don't feel comfortable. So I'm not sure exactly what that balances. I personally think you've got to allow for certain amount of accessibility. So you've got to tweak the authentic experience. I think if you want to introduce people to and then maybe once they're introduced to it, then maybe they can go to the full on if you like, but you know, I think it's the difference between cultures, but it's also the difference between accessibility. And then growing appreciation for what you have just the thought. Anyway, back to Tokyo ready. That's thanks Ginny. And I will be back again tomorrow the. Comedy.
#935 - Meal Prep Company Cooks up Profits with Customized Orders
"SONESTA school is brought to you by fiber. Let's talk about finding freelance talent for Your Business or project finding the right freelancer it can be time consuming frustrating and expensive. So where do you go to do it. Will you go to fiber and fine what you're looking for or instantly searched by service delivery time price reviews and more. There's no surprises you'll know exactly what you're paying for upfront. No negotiating need it. I've used it myself and had good experiences. Take five and CHECK OUT FIBER DOT COM. You'll receive ten percent off your first order it by using the Code Hustle so easy don't waste anymore time. Get the service. You deserve by going to F. I. V. E. R. Dot Com Code Hustle again. That's fiber dot com code hustle. The great American Diet isn't doing anyone any favors. I don't have to tell you the statistics we all know that obesity isn't epidemic not just in America but elsewhere around the world now as well. Thankfully a lot of people are fighting back these days being intentional about their diets and trying to avoid fast food even so these good intentions come with problems of their own for example who has time to weekly meal prep well today on the program. I'll introduce you three side hustling partners who create a healthy meal prep and delivery service it grows faster than they imagined going for May two thousand dollar investment into two million dollars in less than five years in fact Shaquille O'Neal even became Amo customer. Welcome decide to school at my name is Christie Lebow the business. I'll tell you about is called locale foods but this is a high calorie dense episode we could say it's the Greek yogurt of stories and it all starts in just thirty seconds school is supported by wicks dot com with which you can managing grow your business online on a single platform so you create a professional website. You use your built in S._E._O.. Tools which is just fancy for search engine optimization. It's easy to use. It's gotTA scheduling system. It's got all the things you need. You can do this on your own no matter your industry wicks has tools that your business needs to create a sleek sleek digital presence. Just go to Wicks dot com slash hustle to get ten percent off when you're ready to go premium that is W.. The U. I. x Dot Com Slash H. U.. S. L. E. Scientists Brodmann. Dari had a good life after immigrating from Nepal to the San Francisco Bay area for college he was now a new graduate and he'd been hired for job in finance that he enjoyed but he also had a major problem is health was deteriorating and he was becoming obese takes the culprit. It was what he calls the corporate American Diet lots of sugar salt fat and carps. It didn't help it. He already had a history of health troubles as a child he'd survived near-fatal. Parasitic disease was then plagued for years by periodic seizures then came up and down battle with weight throughout his teenagers in his first year in college he had made some positive changes through diet and exercise he lost more than forty pounds and began to feel better so that's why it was especially disappointing when his weight and health problems returned at dinner one night sundeep complained to two friends ginny and Rachelle about his unhealthy lifestyle. He knew that meal prepping would help him avoid making poor diet choices throughout the week but he felt like he never had enough time hearing his gripe. One of those friends remarked imagine how many people out there have the same problem that instant the three friends saw both a universal problem and potential Opportunity Santi Jenny Rachelle immediately started thinking about a meal prep site us all right there at the table they began brainstorming even got up their phones to ask prints on social media. If anyone would be interested the immediate feedback they received them even more motivation to proceed as they worked on the idea over the next few weeks they sought out valuable able feedback from potential clients and experts including personal trainers supplement store employees and nutritious. This outreach also helped build an awareness so they could sign up many new customers there soon to be open business the early research also showed them some ways to stand out out you notice that other meal prep companies had basic menus with limited or no customization Saen deepen co decided to offer a much more extensive food selection customize ability and shorter delivery windows just one month after I discussing the. Idea locale foods was open for business. The name is a play on the word local startup costs were just two thousand dollars much of it for ingredients the incubator kitchen they rented in our long blocks. They made a conscious decision to limit production until they kneel l. down the process. They prepared meals two days per week to start in three days and eventually ramp up to five this approach allow them to keep it simple and keep those startup costs so low it also gave them some time to figure things out and tweak for example Santi coated who did the website himself but it was basic couldn't actually take orders customers could check out the menu but they didn't have to call to place their order which wasn't ideal. That's why when their first order arrived. The team took ten minutes for a quick champagne toast before they went right back to work. It was a crazy time three partners were all still working nine to five at their jobs sandeep as a financial analyst Ginny as a restaurant manager in Rachelle as a lab associate in biotech firm before travelling to the prep kitchen at night almost from day one the business was profitable but the partners decided to keep it as a side hustle and let it grow organically until its demands couldn't be met without working on it. full-time point came sooner than expected after just nine months of operations all three partners with their jobs to work at locale and that year the project earn over three hundred fifty thousand dollars. That's right this. Is Your one revenues. Profits have grown each year since Sundeep says that he's now happily outsource web design and customers can order everything online locales menu offers Ala carte options as well as redesigned plans based on several popular diets and eating programs they provide delivery anywhere in California as well as pick up its partner locations in San Francisco of course it hasn't been easy stressful restful workloads especially in the early days sometimes led to freight nurse and squabbles also offering those highly customizable meals made them popular presented many challenges. There's a reason why most services like this keep options limited with so many unique dishes wishes locale can't use the normal assembly line method. It's common in restaurants. Everything needs to be ready at just the right time or the food you go to waste this made scheduling the kitchen like one big puzzle one. They struggled and putting together finally after months of trial and error. Countless hours working out a formula spreadsheet. They sought the problem in business continued to the team expects there one time side-hustle now in its fifth year. We'll have annual revenues of over one million dollars. Then the next eighteen months they're looking to expand nationwide cooking up healthy meals with lots of options for as many mouths as possible all right so what can we take away from this well first of all congratulations to sign deep and Ginny Rochelle. They started with this problem that I think we use the word universal might not be quite you know that magnificent but a lot of people had this problem. A lot of people are interested decision meal prep who has the time cetera especially if you're in an urban area. There's a lot of people they're trying to do that now. I think it's interesting that they have this three person partnership. We've seen a few times in the program but it's much more common Prasada sell to just be one person and then secondly for it to be to people and I mentioned something about how when they were getting going they occasionally had some squabbles and frayed nerves which is is normal and Sunday told us that the three partners have complementary skill sets I think is really important in a partnership ship and strong communication skills which allowed them to work through issue so both of those points seem critical partnership survive five years become a seven figure business doing something that isn't easy and speaking of not easy customization is how they were able to stand out in this market but it's hard there really is a reason why most companies don't do it this way so not sure exactly how they figured it out that must have been that excel spreadsheet and keeping their production limited until they saw problems and now it seems like they're ready to go nationwide or at least that's their plan in the future so hopefully locale foods will come to the rest of the country. I maybe inspire some other projects elsewhere around the world as well all right. That's it for today. Inspiration is good but inspiration with action is better. Today's show notes are at Cecil School. Dot Com slash nine in three five. I'll be back tomorrow with another story. Be Sure your subscribed. This is Chris Gilo for side-hustle school.
Choose Your own Adventure Live part 2
"This podcast is part of the PODCASTS arcade network. Hello and welcome to the covert Nerd podcast. Thank you for listening. It means a lot to me that you take the time out of your day to hear what I have to say. Before we start the episode, I want to shout out to one of the listeners and her for winning are contests from the last episode. Thank you, Andor for participating in also thank you for listening as well and thank you to everyone. Listening I really appreciate. It also want to mention our sponsor. Rainbow Comics cards you can go to Rainbow Comics cards dot com, and you can get in touch with them and get the comics cards whatever you need, you can also go to their facebook page, Rainbow Comics and cards Lincoln and I'll put a link in the show notes you can. Can Get in touch with Tim and Taylor as well. Today is another. Choose your own adventure. Live in you participate to just simply go to the covert facebook page, and you'll get announcements, and you can jump right in as well in get in the conversation and help. Decide what happens the show. It's a lot of fun. Go to covert ner. Dot Net for the information on this episode and previous episodes in all the ways that you can get in touch with me so without further ado, let's dive right in and nerd it up with Eddie and choose your own adventure. while. We're waiting for Eddie all just get started and will let him step in when we can. This is Kgo center ever since he solved the Harlow `thrombin murder case your services as a private detective have been in much demand. Harlow Thrown Bay was one of the richest men in town, and it was a surprise when he called you in to find out who was plotting against his life, unfortunately thrown bay was murdered so not a successful. Maybe I duNNo. thruway was murdered on the very night. You began your investigation. His wife Jane thrombosis was prime suspect, but you proved her innocence, and afterwards she continued to live in their huge Victorian house until she died of a heart attack a few months ago. You've enjoyed being a private detective, but lately you've been thinking about going into a new field ghost hunting. What got you interested? Hey, there's Eddie I'm hoping this works. I just got onto page one. So I'm just reading page one as we get going here last paragraph here. What got you interested was a magazine article on the subject? The author said that in most cases a haunted house was once the scene of a murder murder. This fact tied in with some news. You heard recently after Jane. Thrombosis died a few months ago. A man named Howard Brimstone. Love these names. He bought the throne. Bay Place neighbors say that a strange things have been going on their lights on late at night. Guard dogs patrolling the grounds, weird sounds coming from the house. The more you think about it, the more likely it seems that the ghost of Harlow thrombosis has come to haunt the house where thrown bay was murdered her page to. Another thing is the in the article caught your eye was the article said that professor, Zaibak, who is supposed to be one of the world's leading authorities down? Ghost works at the Institute for Cult Studies only a few miles from where you live. The author did not seem to have a high opinion of doctors I back. However, in fact, he said this. Although doctors, I back, it has interviewed hundreds of people who claim to have seen ghost. He admits he has never seen a ghost himself. How can he? He be so sure then that ghost really do exist, doesn't he know that people have a way of seeing what they wanna see or what? They're afraid of seeing. Doctors ibox evidence in air quotes there for the existence of ghost seems no more convincing than all the so called evidence for Ufo's, and esp you ask various people? If they know anything about doctors, I back a neighbor of yours Mrs Wall while Leka. Wow again. These names Mrs Walesa tells you that she knows doctors I back for many years. I don't know whether his theories about ghosts are true or not, but I do know this. He says she says he is an honest man. You wonder whether it would be useful to see doctors I back or not. Got Two choices here Eddie. Having trouble with his Internet he'll be back. So. What do we do here? If he decided to pay call professors I back or if you decide to start ghost hunting without delay. So we go to. Start, hunting, or do we go call professors I back and get some advice from him. So what should we do at eighty? We just dive right in and go ghost, hunting, or do we call on the professor we? Ghosts, you dive right in me. You don't be messing around. That's what I was thinking. Who cares dive right in, so we're going to go to page eleven. With you. Do. You want to give this one shot Eddie. Page eleven, yes. Why don't you start? It will that will book lows for me. Okay I'll do page July Internet I know. All right so you're sitting at your desk thinking about how you might begin your work as it goes hunter when the phone rings guess WHO's coming. Eddie, it's your old friend. Jenny much. She's. Listened Jimmy much gave us nothing trouble time. And at best you were. You were you were a negative. You're not negative. Zero equation brings something to the game much well. She is so guess what she's probably going to be doing all right. That's quite acquitted coincidence. Jenny, who is also a private detective, helped you solve the harlow throb a murder case. How are things? You ask January applies. Sign Yeah Yeah. That's true gingery reply. Sorry. That's all right. Judy replies in her usual lively voice very fine. I've stopped being a private detective and decided to become a ghost hunter, she such a sheep. She just follows whatever you do. You know Jimmy. You Act your own person yet. You seem to always be where we are. Much be unique yourself instead of got a cool last name. Funds store they go ooh modified. You could, you could become A. Become a judge a judge. Judge judge all man. All right, so you say that's amazing. You say great minds as you're reading your teeth. Probably great minds think alike. I was just about to see if I can find out whether Harlow thromboses, go says returned to haunt. This old house could be jenny replies, but I've learned of a house. That by all reports is definitely haunted. It's just a little way out of town the gray mansion it's been empty for a long time. The place is so haunted cursed. Whatever you WANNA, call it that no one will go near it. I called you to see if you'd like to go out there with me this Saturday now, Jedi. I'm going to weigh in here. We also have. Ghost Hunter GEICO. Center, up paranormal mom Amanda Pack on the on that see. We'll see. Much help there. We go out of the gate. We're getting that paranormal. Mom Amanda pack a camera. Woman of our ghost hunt of the Grand Theater in Green Island Rosca. Can Weigh in on this. You got to have a little bit of like impartial like. When you do this much run out of the gate, this totally hearted curse what whatever you WANNA call it i. don't care. Yeah, she's like she's burt impressed. Not impressed at all. No, no, that's that's me. Yeah. You're right. She just came in and said Hey, this place is haunted. Do you want to go with me? Is this this mean dating now Jenny mud. Like married now was happening much. Thing. So. They have a choice to our listeners. Choice to make now so do you want to go the Jimmy to the gray mansion or want to go to Harlow thromboses mansion? I'm so torn. I'm torn because Jenny is selling me this other this other place. Like, but but. Yeah, we're partial the harlow thrombosis since we were supposed to. Make sure the guy didn't die and died and. Outgrowth Romney. Yeah, yeah, if it wasn't for prufrock and Schmidt. We might have succeeded to eighty Sitcom that we deserve. Case. Pulling your way to success every time. Amanda said go by yourself. Go by yourself. That's one vote. Let's see if we can't get a couple more from viewers. Maybe give it a couple of seconds. What do you say and then we can just make an executive decision? I don't know I'm kind of torn. I if you want me to weigh in I'm almost like you know what much you're on your own. I'm going. Harlow thrown bay thrown by all the way we killed him okay. Let's go to page no eighteen nicotine. Discern. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. We may have shows early stricter. SCARED ME! No, it's not that I. I'm sorry, I don't care who you are. I see some appointing a gun at me and I'm like. Choice I chose. I? Sound like like my day to day you now bright. If you learn anything from couvert nerd alert is this. If you ever find yourself in a position you're looking at. That's happening to you and realise shotgun showed it shows poorly. This is how I decide what I'm going to do in life. I pull out a choose your own adventure. Book and trigger random page says the end I'm just done. You're meeting your daughter's boyfriend for the first time, and you turn to adventure pages and it lands on this. I half to get gun I guess we're done here did. So here we go all right page. We've chosen to tell much. To go off and Trudge Mudgal away home. Eat Fudge Treasury Donald Care. Exactly. You decide first of all to pay a call on Howard Brimstone. The new owner of the IB house. That's a good name by the way brimstone. You're sitting at your desk, thinking about what? The homeless because what to ask him when a woman appears at your front door I'm Sylvia Rushton. Jane Rambis Niece, she says May I. Come In. You take a look at your visitor as you usher her into your office. She's a rather plump wrong. Faced woman come on. In her forties. You guess you guess her skin is so fair. You Imagine Shema sunburned very easily. Or yellowish hair is curly. The ring be very descriptive here. Doesn't seem. Basically, saying she's a human ghost. She's a human ghost. Theater of the mind exactly. She looks as if she has a basically happy nature, but right now she seems tense in anxious. You had heard that Jane Dombi had left most of her money to Sylvia. You're curious to know what brought her. See You. Sit Down what seems to be the problem. You motion her toward the couch next to your desk. I'm penniless and I should be rich Hashtag me. I'm saying says well asked us as well I should be rich. I'm penniless and I should be rich goes to extremes. Does are to extremes Sylvia Reston. You gotta be somewhere in the middle here. I know you are because you're you're here. Yes I'm penniless. I'm rich, okay? I have everything or I have nothing. Although I should talk to my life. You Search Sylvia's is for a clue her character. What do you mean I heard? You inherited most of your aunts aunt Jane's wealth everything except the house. Twenty, six, twenty six. Would you just Europe Age here I'll do twenty here all right. Sylvia Leans towards you, aunt, Jane, provided in her will that the house and the furniture be sold, and the proceeds given a charity all her money and jewels were to be left to me. But before she died, she put her money into diamonds. She even told. See. Invested in diamonds I guess yeah, dive thing they throw away. They throw away to make them more valuable. Put It all in in stock? Put it all in diamond. She could have bought this thing. Called Apple Software on computer stock, but I said No. Diamonds yeah put. That her investment solution this crazy thing called googly i. don't know what it is. You're diamonds some fruit company? I, don't know yeah exactly. like forrest gump. You keep it. I'm going to invest in diamonds. Are Forever Yeah. Good Point Of Way. Is that the new investment advice going forward diamonds putting on diamonds. That's where the money's at dude is there. I will roll into any investment place in town here like fifty bucks. A Hundred Bucks sledded across the counter. Put it all on diamonds. Carry now like your biggest roulette table. Let it drag. Drag me out of there screaming on. What about? Anyway he was last heard saying put it all in diamonds. Locked him in the Paddy Wagon and beat him in the parking lot. Let's see how her investment solution does I'm betting you. She even told me how many there were thirty seven. One of them was the famous Khartoum star one of the largest diamonds in the world. She hid them in a red leather box and I'm the only one who knows it. The House has been sold, but I'm sure the diamonds are still in it in fact I. Think I know exactly where they are. and. Jane showed me her secret hiding place behind a wood panel in the right rear corner of the Cedar Closet in the Attic. What do you know about Howard Brimstone the new owner? Not Much Sylvia replies with a shrug, but there are a lot of rumors about him. I've heard he's a big drug dealer. There's also a rumor that he's in arms. Smuggling business, and that makes bond that he makes bombs for terrorists. Dot the kind of man. You could ask to help you. Look for your diamonds I guess. But now you can see that this is going to be tricky case and it will delay your new career as it goes hunter besides you're not really sure you can help. Don't have street smarts, but I know that a drug running arms dealer is nobody I want to do business with yeah I think. So. We got some choices here. If you tell. Sylvia, think you can help turn to page eight. If you tell her, you'll think about it. Turn to page thirty four. We're supposed to be ghost hunting not here for ghosts. Yes, not drug dealers and diamonds and terrorism. No. I see where this goes. We get killed. At the Harlow Harlow case we got hit on the back of the head and tied up. We tried to go the road less traveled, and we got pistol about the net face and chest I was funny recipes. I have my thought. Let's put it out to the viewers that see what they choose. My choices that we stick to the plan. We came here to find ghosts. We came we saw. Their diamonds. But it all on diamond, so not only did she say put it in diamonds I thought she meant just buy some diamonds, yeah. By three hundred. Thirty seven. I'm one of them's that Khartoum Star. That's pretty specific. Well I say we give Silvia the BOOT and go. Thing. You can't be distracting here for one thing. Go rises toasts. Toast so we're GONNA. Go to page eight all right. I will read page eight. Turning to it now bear with me. All right here we go. Here we go. We're letting her down. Yes, let her down easy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't think I can help you say well. Thanks for your time. I guess there isn't anything to be done. When she gave a quick yeah, she did after Sylvia leaves. You go for a walk to think things over by the time you get home. You decided that you really should try to help Sylvia Oh. Oh, no, this is GonNa get non-gaullisty. Real quick. It's not right that she should be deprived of deprived of her rightful inheritance. This is now. We stared down the barrel. Of. The next morning you call her, but there is no answer every day you try again. Maybe. She's a ghost. But. It's a week before you're able to reach her. Says which she has a right to be a little tricky, okay. I should've let you know. I was visiting. My mother got back yesterday and found out. The grim stone has left town. The place is all locked up. why do you think he cleared out? The police have been watching the place. You Know Proof Rockets Schmidt. Combing over the place. Yeah, that's quality quality work there. They he may figured out to figured they had gotten enough evidence against him to close in on. Maybe so you reply, it may also mean that he found the diamonds. A thought suddenly occurs to you. Could you get a court order to have the place searched? Soviet replies. The judge denied my request. He said that there wasn't enough evidence to justify his issuing a search warrant. Will. Maybe I can think of something. I'll just keep reading. The says next Catcher Yup. Sitting at your desk with your feet propped up in your best thinking. Position which I love that. I have seen just Jesse. Keep thinking, and that is in fact, his best position with feet on his desk speed up on his desk. She was on or off well ironically his on his desk, but he's laying on the floor, so it's like it's like no share. On the desk. Yeah, exactly and funny funny, though he's wearing his pants as a hat. Oh Wire! He's thinking hat. I'm just telling you I don't make this stuff up. Jesse noses true best position. You wonder what to do next. Somehow you've got to get inside the house. We're not about breaking the law I think I think I think we might be committing a felony soon. This! Afternoon you walk. Across town, Wow! Okay, we do. We walk a lot a lot of cardio these stories. To the section where most of the rich people live. In stand across the street from the great white where Harlow thrum. Bay was murdered. The grounds are surrounded by a wrought iron fence. It's too high to climb except at the front gate, you glance at a man sitting in an old car parked from the house. You've been into detective business long enough. The three cases you've been. Yes, I think. You're reading this on eight. Eight year old and I've been doing this for all three minutes. From my season opinion, Detective Business Lamin. No plane quotes policemen when you see one. SPY PRUFROCK? I smell a prufrock. Maybe you should Geneva help. Now her again. She could distract the policeman. Will you find a way to climb over the fence using your girlfriend? Not your girlfriend, your friend, who is a girl to be a distraction de? Coelho she's she just a decoy. Do you gotta learn something well? You find a way to climb over the fence on the other hand. You don't like the idea I thought it was gonNA be no idea of like like exploiting your friend know you don't like the idea of sneaking into a place that's guarded by police. Maybe you should jump join Jenny in investigating the cray match. Basically the choices here shall commit a felony. Use Use my girlfriend as a decoy this this is another crossroads. So this is where we're stuck again. If we go ask Jenny to distract this guy, she'll probably help. however, if we help with the gray mansion, we might find some ghosts. Yes, SINK! I think it would go look for harlow thrombosis. We're not gonNA. Find any ghosts I'm kind of wondering. And maybe the Guy Grindstone was scared to death to leave the house. Who knows? Maybe, the ghost scared him out. Yeah, yeah, so that's the choice we have lay before US grabbed his machine gun his drugs and and headed out of town, right? Cocaine Office space and ran out the door. Can you imagine running out of the house was like he's eating powdered donut. Exactly just on triangle of just like my beard, all white. Man Him. A man right to the rights of the point. Oh boy, I mean in the story I. Don't know a child or an adult so i. don't know if this is like even I mean. They gave us a choice of committing a felony I think. We've. We've gone to the eighteen, plus now because we crossed the line we've we've crossed that line. Yes I think hey, whatever it takes to get into the House I guess at this point. Exactly exactly so steal an old person's hearing aid. To Somehow Jerry rigged the police officers listening device exactly. I can imagine Jenny if we asked Jenny to help. Distract the guard. She's probably am I. Just a decoy do. Is that all am? Maybe Jenny shoots us. She's like what I've had you stole my thunder I goes running around here. I guess. I'm torn I. Want to find goes. I think we go. Maybe we just. We're done with Ron Bay. Let's just go see if Jimmy can find some growth. I guess we're GONNA. Join Ginny on ghosts at my vote. All right well, we'll see. How do we have any comments on the viewers? Do you support our decision to go along with Jenny? To the haunted house. Or, do we still pursue this? I think ill-fated. We're going to find ourselves. In a Jesse confirms it with. Eight six. Five three go? If you call that number I. Forget the area code, but if you call that number, it actually has that Solomona loop all. That's awesome, yeah! We need to call it. I'm saying an Amanda has invented a character. Kenny so now we gotta go fly. Now go reread the entire story and start over and find, candy. In this story, maybe as a character that Amanda has inserted into this that we did novell to Kenny from South Park. Kill, kill! Kill Jimmy! Much any Okay all right well. Let's go to think this is on you now. This is your so page fourteen. Fourteen! All right when you arrive at Jimmy's house on Saturday, she greets you excitedly. The gray mansion is still empty. She says then are we waiting for you? Reply Nothing now. That I found myself a flashlight. She found her flashlight so now we can go. Waiting on week under flashlight. Jenny come on. Active police officer? Yeah, exactly there's a light drizzle falling in the sky has an oppressive leading look when you reach the top of the hill and look up at the huge Tudor House. Building some ambiance here, he loves us. Currency Lean and it's porches sag from the decades of neglect. The massive front porch door is bolted shut, but halfway around the house. You find an unlocked door that leads to the Butler's Pantry. You've hardly reached. The Sambre must musty hallway when you hear a wailing, moaning sound that rises and falls in pitch over and over, and they've been my house. They're describing my house. Not Exactly. This is the house. Oh wait no! This way ginny says her voice a little shaky. You follow her into the large room with massive tables and chests and chairs covered with dark brown leather. Your eyes fixed on the great stone fireplace. The wailing sound is louder now, and it's coming straight from the fireplace. Talking about. This is where we need to be. Maybe it's the only the wind you say Ginny clutches your arm tightly. The win never sounds like that then I guess it's a ghost. How matter of factly! Ghost. Like, debunk that no. Jenny places her mouth close to your ear. If we're going to trap it, we have to surround it. This is. Muster's like Ray. Get it. That was your plan. Jenny you couldn't find your flashlight. How are we going to catch a ghost exactly going to do this gin? Coffee Mug with you. What's happening Jenny Janney? So here's her plan. One of US must go up on the roof and shine the flashlight down the chimney. Fireplace. How how can we get up on the roof? I noticed an upstairs porch on the left side of the House Ginny answers. It wouldn't be hard to swing onto the rough from there. Do you want to try or shall i? Here we go, so you say you'll go up on the roof. Go to forty one. If you decide to stay by the chimney so basically which one of us is going to go up on the roof? Do you want ginny to do it or do we want to do it? Let's think this through if we go up on the roof. The idea is that we're going to be like shining something down to get it to come out. Yes, inside the how yeah right so the idea is to shine the light down the chimney to see. If there's anything there, you might scare it so so much is going to be the one to see the ghost. And then we won't. We won't see the ghosts. Maybe right maybe on the flip. Ginny is our friend and we said we would go to help. It seems weird that we would tell her to go. Clam the roofs. Good Point. Hate, to be selfish, but I'm like. We came here to find goes. Jimmy get up on that roof. That's my it goes against my core values, but It up on the get on the roof and scare them down. That's my thought, Lee. What do you think I don't know? That's a tough one because maybe. Who knows what you might find on the way up? Through is because you have to. She said you have to go onto the rough. Sea now you owe you go on the porch. Yeah, and you Kinda swing in on the roof from there, so doesn't sound dangerous at all. No, not at all. Doesn't the rainy, said right? At this point again, we've already already breaking and entering. You know we're all in. At this. But I say Judy on the roof. Okay, like fiddler on the roof Ginny on the roof Jenny on the roofs if I were a rich man. was the rich ginny. Now were were picking this. We're not getting a lot of comments, so we're going to go and steer this, but you know this is the whole point of the story. Here's a you guys are helping. Choose what happens, livered I. Want to go on that, so we're GONNA. Make Johnny go on the Porch. Court. We just hang out by the chimney here. You. Stand by the fireplace ready to capture the ghost with whatever. You're your magical pocket. Magical in my pocket, Magic Hock is. Ready to capture the ghost of Ginny skiers out the wailing and moaning have stopped, and you wonder if this because the ghost knows you're tracking it down. Perhaps it's like a wild animal that once it knows it's being stalked, freezes and waits ready fight or flee if it's adversary comes upon it. Very slowly you inch toward the fireplace. You been down to look up to look up the chimney. As you stoop your. I catches a painting on the wall. One of those portraits that is painted so that the is seem to follow you wherever you move. You stopped hypnotized by those. Is You wonder if you are looking at a painting of a man? Whose Ghost now host this house? You Shiver as the chill air coming down. The chimney seems to wrap around you. Suddenly a scream from Jenny, we kill her. Up on the up on the roof. In the Attic I've got to get down I. Almost fell nasty the regency. Almost killed Gianni it is you run to the upstairs porch to see if you can help Jenny, turn to page seventy nine Oh, then if you run upstairs to the attic, turn to page sixty. Okay, so I think you know where I'm going with this. I think so. This isn't called you save ginny. Shooter Adventure! No like no I want to see the ghost. It's in the I've gotta get down. I almost fell so sorry, Jenny, you're on your own. God Attic. We go sacrifice to be made. Exactly Jedi if you had to. Diet approves it goes through. The you're gonNA, become. Want Yeah. Paid Sixty all right all these sixty here you rush up to the attic and boldly throw open the door before you boldly before you is a thin frail figure. His paces base is Pale, and his eyes have a hollow look. He turns and lurches toward you. You start to scream, but stop. It's not a ghost, but alive boy about sixteen you'd guess his face as gentle gentle expressions, and he looks more frightened than frightening. Please, don't tell them about me. He begs you step forward to look more closely at this poor tattered figure. Who Are you? My name is Louis I ran away from home. I've been living here for two months. I, make these weird noises to scare people away. If they find out I'm not a ghost. They'll kick me out and I have no other place to say hello. Are you up in the attic? Jimmy's voice from downstairs? She must have safely gotten off the roof. Yes. Yeah glad you're not did yes. Come on up, you call back turning back to Louis you introduce yourself? But Louis does not offer to shake hands. Why did you leave home? You ask? It must have been pretty bad for you to choose this kind of life now. We're getting into some counseling. Where are the ghosts? Show me the ghosts. Where are they hidden, so? Lewis suddenly sits down on the floor and leans back against the wall, staring into space. You wonder whether he has forgotten. You're there, are you? In here comes genie's voice again. She's at the top of the attic stairs over here. You yell into Lewis. You say meet my friend. Ginny Ginny runs up beside you stopping short as she spots Lewis why you're not a ghost. She says to him, but if you don't start eating more you soon, we'll be Louis. Louis Miles for the first time and slowly gets teased feet. He ran. We're right, I'm starving. He ran away from home. You explain to Jenny. I lived with my uncle. Lewis says he was drunk a lot, and I bet you you'd like to have a hot bath and a good meal. Ginny says you can come over to my place you add. We'll fix you up. Thanks, thanks very much. Lewis says he walks over to the corner of the attic, gathers up some clothes strewn on the floor and stuff backpack. Then he follows you and ginny down the stairs, and out of the House You'll be sixty seventy seven YEP Lewis. Is there anyone else you could live with beside? Your uncle Johnny asks as the three of you walk down the road. His face brightens for a moment. My half brother lives in Alaska. He said I could come up with him, but I'd have to raise my own bus fare, and that's a lot of money. Maybe so, you say, we'll help you find a way. You can even join our team. Of Ghost Hunters Jenny several to laugh after all you had gable experience living in that haunted house. I don't know if I want to be a ghost hunter. Louis but I'm pretty good at carpentry. Carpentry Carpentry okay. Didn't do a Dang thing of that house? Agan. From believes. Get to work. Great you say I know a builder I'm sure he can use you on his crew. Lewis says Jenny inference emphatically. You're already halfway to Alaska the the end. Where's the goes. This goes on. Yeah, you find A. Boy in a house and then use good at carpentry on you. Put Him in put into work. The worst ghostbusters movie ever made Yeah I noticed. Scary sounds to keep people out of my house. This is like scooby. Doo Episode. This is. Like a guy who's like you? Kids I would have gotten away with it, too. If it wasn't for you, Pesky, kids know the sadness, just homeless homeless boy that had a drunk uncle who got drunk and dot dot. Classic. and. died so here we are forty two minutes and do we take another stab at desert? What are you GONNA do well. Do you WanNa try this again or do you want to try? Chimney rock the mystery of Chimney Rock. You know what I am going to put this out to our viewers real quick and just say what you say. Do we take? Another stab goes hunting. Do take another stab. At, trying to find a ghost or go to chimney, rock. Well. You guys over to fix my hat stabbing a hole in my brain. Let's do another ghost, and if you're like me I usually just skipped the first couple pages because I've already read it. Yeah. Let's see here's our first choice was on page to. Go to professors I back or do we start? Hunting goes without delay. That was our first choice. OR I. Go design Mack, okay, we. See these names Zaibak Royston. Mrs. Walcott Wall Aca Mrs Wall. Lecca was our neighbor. St Like they they have so many characters to write like I. CAn't Do Smith. Even if I did Smith how bad the story would be! They just spin a wheel and it's like start putting letters together. Back go flirt. And so this is page four. I'll go ahead and read this one. If you want to catch the next one. Yup, within an hour, you knock on the door of professors ibox office at the institute a moment later you're greeted by tall, slim man, wearing a tweed, vest and Polka Dot Bowtie. He ashes you into his office, which is made even smaller by huge stacks of books piled up against the wall. Sit Down, and make yourself comfortable. The professor taps the ashes out of his pipe and stuff since I'm tobacco, but evidently deciding you might not want to sit in a room full of smoke. He lays the pipe down on his already cluttered desk. What can I do for you? I'm sorry, but I have to go to a meeting and only have a few minutes. Well you say clearing your throat I. Read that you've done a lot of research on ghosts I thought. Maybe you could give me a few tips. Let go, so we're looking for. Six great here we go. Tips the professor frowns is not happy with the now. Well. It's a very complicated subject, not one that boils down to a few tips that being said I will tell you this number. One ghost exist now. Exists. But, they normally don't exist in a way in. We are aware of their existence so most of the time. It doesn't matter whether they exist or not. Ooh, he got all takes. On Yeah Yeah I. Don't quite follow you. Start to say, but the professor interrupt you with An. UPRAISED FINGER Didn't say which one. He just tells you to go away. The year number one finger. On it with an upraised finger I'm not surprised. You can't follow because you're dump. Very complicated as I say. What I say next you can follow number. Two ghosts don't hurt people. You're more likely to be hurt if you run from a ghost, they did you go toward? The professor takes a gold watch out of his pocket. It looks at it. oops I'm very lit. What are you the Rabbit and fricken? Allison Wonderland Yeah. I'm late. Very late as he gets to his feet and grabs his jacket from the coat stand. He waves his piper. You Goodbye I. Wish you look good day. Before you even think the professor. He's out the door. You glitch around the cluttered little office. and. Then head for home, thinking about what he said. Lemonade Eleven. I love his. He's like I'm out of here. You're dumb. I'm leaving. You're sitting at your desk. Thinking about how you might begin your work as it goes hunter when the phone rings your old friend. Jenny mudge that's. We've been on this page before. That's quite a coincidence. Ginny, who is also a private detective. Help you solve the harlow `thrombin murder case. How are things you ask Jenny? Replies in her usual, lively voice very fine. Okay well, so we've already read this one so great. So if we decide to hunt for harlow, thromboses ghosts. Go to page eighteen. If you decided to join Jimmy page fourteen. which we know, her Jitney is to take us. Yes, disappoint. So back to hollow thrombosis. Thanks for back to thrown bay at eighteen. All right and we read this one read this one which takes us to page twenty six six. How you read these guys. Going through them. Okay so this is where we. We told Sylvia that we don't want to help her. So. That was page eight. Yep, so we tell her we want to think about so we want to think about it this time. We do a lot of things again we do. So we told her you don't think you can help. And then that was the way, did YEP. And then retail, think about it. Maybe we go and think about it. Yeah, the socio think about it. Just do the the opposite, yes. Thirty four after Sylvia Rust and leaves you. Sit At your desk, wondering how you can possibly help her. If you take the case, you'll hardly be able to call up grindstone, and after you can search a closet in the Attic If you to tell him what you're looking for. The diamonds would surely vanish for the time you got there. You tilt back feed on. Your desk is closed pants on your. Allowed knocking interrupts your thoughts. Opening the door, you find a rather short stocky man. His oily graying hair is slicked back over his head. A. Close Saving Mustache looks like a line of Greece tate over his thin, almost non-existent upper lip man he's. What a description! Wraps face loser guy comes in the door. I'm Howard Grim Stone. ooh, this. Is the drug dealer terrorist this Guy Yeah. I've heard here a private detective and I need your help. You try to hide your astonishment. Well. Please come in you. Motion to the same old couch Sylvia Russian so recently vacated. What's your problem? Turn to page twenty seven I think. He position with our pants over our head. And we get interrupted by a drug dealer. Arms dealing. Greasy mustache like Iran in with the Mascara Pencil. You go yup. Yup It's the strangest thing. Brimstone begins in what strikes you as a rather phony tone of voice. I recently bought a house owned by Jane Thrombosis. Who died a few months ago? It's a great house suits my needs in every way, but it has one problem. Grim stone leads forward as if to emphasize to add emphasis to statement and what's the problem? Goes the place is haunted, strange, wailing sounds and lights. My employees and I can't get a good night's sleep. Oh, I thought it was all the cocaine you were doing. That's bad enough, but other things. I've been happening last night. The Crystal Chandelier began swaying wildly than some of the crystals crashed onto the dining room table. No one of my men was cut by flying glass. No, that was probably a knife fight you guys had. Exactly cooking fuel. I've never believed in ghosts before, but I'm telling you. There's one in that house. What do you want me to do? Grindstone or brimstone leans forward. His thin lips stretched into some sort of smile. I need someone to find that ghost and get rid of it I need a ghost hunter. All right I'll think about it and let you know in the morning. You say what we just keep thinking. Why can't we make a decision? I'M GONNA mull this over. Okay as he leaves, brimstone turns on. Make it worth your while. ooh Hey now we're talking. He's GonNa. Pay Us an opium. Opium right here. Some hand grenades. Does that sound billy. Heroin and plastic explosives. All Right Twenty twenty for hopping all over. Oh, this is A. Good choice here. What are you GonNa? Yeah, please. The case is getting interesting. Whom should you work for Sylvia Rushton or Howard Brimstone, it wouldn't seem right to work for both of them. I mean no. That's how you get killed. Probably not. Without telling them what you're doing yet, that doesn't make sense. You'd be more inclined to work for grim stone. You want to be a ghost hunter on the other hand. You don't like the idea of working for. Still Grim. Stone isn't asking you do anything illegal. So why not take the case? Yet you still feel some loyalty to still be arrested because she came to you i. You can't just let your thoughts go around in circles like this. You gotTA. Make a decision. I can't make a decision. I'm a president from space balls exactly. I can't make a decision, so our choices. is you decide to work for Sylvia Rushton? Page twenty eight. You decide to work for Howard Brimstone go to page seventy, and it doesn't get any to adventure now. Angel, on one shoulder devil on other. Yes. Cool and you have girls, but you're my health. which do Eddie. See again. This is how you make life decisions. I'm onto this book now I know what's happening. Okay, WE'RE GONNA help out Sylvia thank because if we go chasing the obvious, we're GONNA. We're not gonNA find. Ghosts! Amanda says grams tone live on the edge. This is how we die. Canine. Cocaine induced night fight. Cocaine nightside on your comments lease. Go ahead cash. Cane knife fight. That's the Hashtag tonight right there Hashtag. As. Okay well cocaine. Gets. Cut a spelled it with a K.. Through. GotTa be careful with us. Well Amanda. Canaanite fight so cocaine nine fight. What what do we? See even the last. Night. We work for criminal. We are my my thoughts are we're being outvoted now, so we have to? We have to because they told us so page seventy. For the coach fight all right. I get to the page and there's a gun in my face and we know that was not. Going to be. Our face a nice and our chests. I'll tell you that right now. Just like looking down and all there is is a handle of nine. I'll do this one. No, no gun in our face. Handle. It's like covered in dust. When you call Brimstone to tell him you're taking the case. He asked you to stop over that evening. You set up for his house right after dinner with your miniature high intensity flashlight tucked in your pocket because that's all you need. The Hunt Goes Daddy. All you need is A. Man Who do the everybody had the equipment that goes on in a very low? Somehow you think you may need it again. This is important. Dark. Walking up to the great oak door of the huge Victorian, house you think back to the first time he came here. The night of Harlow thromboses murder. Things have changed a lot. Since then a high wrought iron fence now surrounds a property. Thick Cedar Hedges have been planted so that it's not possible to see any of the ground floor windows from the street. The place resembles a fortress more than the gentleman's estate. As you approach the house. You hear fierce barking startled U-TURN. For the first time you notice a large dog pin attached to one side of the house to huge mastiffs are raging at you from the other side of the chain link fence. You Shudder to think what would happen if they got out. The front door opens before you reach it. A hulking square-shouldered man appears his stiff bristling hair looks like steel of grotesque smile is fixed on his face. Wow, seventy, four age seventy four. I hope those dogs can't get out. You say the man last. I'm they can. Have Fingers and thumbs. You don't like our pets. Don't worry. there. Gate will open the less. We push a button inside the house. That's nice to know you reply. Not offering the shake hands see actually they push a button, but it's it's one of those Rube Goldberg machines were. Like scares chicken and cake. Batter pours out. So so. The opening. Exactly, he saved the kid the whole explanation, but he's like. Push a button, but they got like a Monkey Bang symbols. Little Ball down and the guy dives into the little pool from Mousetrap, and exactly triggers the lighter that Burns a strip. It's a little thing. Yeah, but they push button. Cool. That's nice to know you reply. Not Offering to shake hands is Mr. Brimstone home come in my young friend. Don't be put off by Kitty. Hey, other is a kenny. Kenny in here. Can you zoom in on this? I do. Let's see. I think I might be able to. You can read this. On there is a key. So a man that. Long right here that Kenny is is a is a also psychic, so you go. Wow, Amanda. I called it. All. Wow! That's also. You Walk Past Kinney into the gate into the Great House. It has a much more somber look than you remember as if a man was murdered in it. The walls have been covered with dark chestnut paneling. The floors which used to be polished shining are covered with a dark brown stain. They don't say what the state I don't think you want to. It's like the the. Brown material the mosman throws, and then you. Just don't ask. Moss and he's like I threw it. I say those worse. grindstone shows you into the library. He looks up you up and down as if he were measuring for new clothes or a coffin. Ghost. The ghost starts making noises every night at about eight o'clock. Punctual Ghost. Yeah exactly. It's all. It's almost eight now coincidentally. I'm going to have to leave you alone for a while. I have to discuss business. Business air quotes with my associates. In the dining room. brimstone gives you a funny look like this. Takes his tongue out at you exactly? Do you want to wait here until the noise begins or do you want to explore the house so I? Just like how the confidence you just want to wait here, they'll come to you exactly the ghost to bring you go sandwich. Do. You want that on Rye. You decide to go sandwich on. Rye. Bread turned the page forty-six. If you decide to wait in the library, turn the page forty six. If you decide to explore the house. Turn to page one six. Okay, do we explore or do we wait? While Psychic Amanda says explorer since she knows what's going to happen before we do it, I mean she. Kenny. Kenny, so we have to trust that. She knows where we're going. That's awesome. Yeah? You're going to page six. We're like at the end of the book. I love his. We're going to. My associates are going to have a little meeting. With some congregating goes well. Huge. To fit this. One six I'd just as soon get started exploring the house. You say that's perfectly fine. Brimstone replies pleasantly to pleasantly. You can go anywhere. We have no secrets here. He sat in you. Except for all, These laws Brownsboro. Dogs I mean Oh Jeez as the two of you walk through the downstairs hall. He motions to the dining room where Kenny and other men are seated at the dining room table. Excuse me I have some business to conduct with these gentlemen. He enters the dining room closing the door behind him while. What's going on? All right you stand in the hallway a moment thinking everything about brimstone, his thuggish lackey, the iron, high iron fence outside the huge. Drugs everywhere. Long feud guard dogs all confirmed Sylvia's opinion him as a professional criminal. Yet think I mean I mean I will say it certainly anecdotal criminal, but it's also like. Maybe he just has friends and likes big dogs. Well. You Know Eddie remember what your mom said. Man With Moustache Dude you right? See he has a moustache. Best Year right yet. He's given you the run of the house to look for ghost. It's odd you'd like to find evidence of ghosts, but to tell you the t tell the truth. You're even more curious to find out whether Jane. Thrombosis diamonds are hidden in the Attic Cedar. Closet, this may be your only chance while no one is watching you. Oh, boy, we're GONNA. Get greedy here. I think so I mean. Here's the thing he literally said. Go wherever you want true, so we're not necessarily outside of the. We're not going to walk into a room. He's going to be. Why don't go in this room. Sending up her beloved, these are what. He's. He talks like seven Esther salone with the mustache. Doing Good Eddie Room, but this one however either criminal. So how how much can we trust him? and. He's Greasy, so we know he's a smooth criminal. Yes, smooth. moonwalk! Officer. So we go, we go look for the diamonds. Do we go just looking around? Assist directly to the attic to search the Cedar Closet. So that's looking for the diamonds, yes. And then look around is more looking for ghosts, so we're GONNA we're. GonNa go room to room, but we're eventually going to get to the addict, so we're taking the scenic route to the attic or do we just go straight to get the diamonds and get the heck out of there I predict if we go room to room, we're going to encounter some sort of. Saying that will prevent us from finding the diamonds. Yes, I almost feel like. This was our tempt. This is our chance to at least. Help this poor woman out while helping this guy out at the same time, okay? She, saying diamonds. that. Diamond so we're getting greedy and just go for the diamonds I Kinda WanNa. Go for the diamonds, but yeah, let's let's go for the time. I kind of agree. If we go slow, we might not die. But. The three of us. Remember Eddie, we said earlier that she said she was penniless or since she should be rich, so let's let's just get. The diamonds will grab a couple and then we'll give the rest of her. Right Oh. There's only thirty four diamonds. I'm sorry, I. Yeah, I don't know where the other one went. As you're heading off to Tahiti. Under things that could have happened in the store. Look at these `lustration. They're all good. I love that climbing the wall. Okay Anyway. Sixty six. Let's see was a my turn to your turn. I forgot. I. Needed that one. Might turn all right. We got our trusty flashlight so flashlight in hand you climb the broad carpeted staircase, leading to the second story at the top you face a long hallway with rooms on either side halfway down. The hall is short. Passageway leads to the steps to the third floor at the top of the steps. Adore you pull it open before you are before you are steps leading to the attic. A flick of the switch produces a dim light at the top of the stairs as you climb the creaky stairs, you glance at your watch. It's eight o'clock now the hour of the Ghost oh boy. Ever, been called that, except for the story, look the Wichita, the witching hour is like three I think so, or is it midnight? Right Okay so it like eight o'clock is like primetime. Family TV time, and it's like that's the coast now restaurant when you're a nine year old boy. Reading this girl this is. Late Up At eight o'clock at night Thursday. Night. Crazy. The board slips beneath your feet, and you gasp a few steps further. You stopped short. Something's moving above you boy. Then you realize it's only your own shadow. Godoy. Light works I guess. All Right? Let's see okay. It's your own shadow. Mehta's. You Block off light from the passage below by the time you reached the top of the stairs. You're ready to laugh at yourself for being so jumpy. Now Shining Your flashlight, you walk into the dim cavernous recess of the attic. You Pass a door. This could be the door to the Cedar Closet. You're about to open it when you way. When a wave of fear runs through your body, you have a strong sensation that someone is nearby watching you. You can't see or hear anything, but you feel an overwhelming sense of danger. Then you remember how you felt coming up the stairs jumping out your own shadow. Maybe you're just nervous, but maybe you've perceived something real. Have a decision. If you open the door turn to page fifty nine. If you pass by the door and circle back down, the stairs, go to one zero four. So do we open the door or do we just walk by and go around another way? Go. That's that's decision there viewers. Do we open the door? Or. Do we circle around back down the stairs. I feel like opening. The door could result in some bad. One Open the door, but you know if you're a kid, you flip to page fifty nine. Look at it and then switched to page four and then look at it. I honest as open it. Open the. Okay is this all says? Open the door to so. Paul says okay, we're opening. Opening the. S There's no options. There were open the door. Just. DUDES I. Choose your. This is choose your own adventure books, too I remember. Are you ready. Go let's all die together a you pull the door open like a reckless numskull. You are by the fragrant. Aroma. You know you have found a cocaine claws not. Found the Cedar closets. You almost forgotten about. As you hurry to the back of the closet. If you can call it that it's as big as a small room. You Shine Your light on the panel next to the floor at the right rear corner, kneeling down you take your pocket knife and insert a laid eggs between the floor and the panel. Your heart leaps as a panel flips open. You pull it back. Shine your light on a small of the. The light that you brought smartly. Shine your light on a small leather box. You unlatched the LID and lifted up the boxes, filled with diamond, all glittering and sparkling in the beam of your flashlight. Then you feel a presence this time close behind you, you. Will you world your light around a Saxons over your head powerful hand, squeeze your throat. Everything goes black. and. Man. Done. Awesome, so in one of the stories we found a homeless boy and got him halfway to Alaska yesterday's his brother or something was living in Alaska. His half-brother apparently. And In the second reading. We found the diamonds. Yeah, we had the diamonds technically. We got made. I. It was Kenny. That killed us. Oh I. Bet new, Kenny Kenny it had to be. AL's man. That's Kenny, did it? We got too greedy. Yeah, we got to. Really we should've circled back around. You know it's. We're over an hour into this league I'm on your schedule. At this point we can. We can double back one more time and see how things minded. Play now or we can call it. I probably going to have to call a good this time, but it was fun. I'm glad we went back a second time. That was Super Fun Super Fun man. I appreciate you doing this man. It's always fun. This is just. A good time to go through these and just kind of reminisce about being a kid and just having fun and having the listeners viewers get involved, so Oh, yeah, and anybody watching or listening. These are fun to share with your kids or just like with anybody. You don't have kids, your nieces nephews, whatever, but they're flooded short. You know you can sit down and go through a couple of these funded active thing to do you know you can get these on Ebay for six bucks to ten dollars cheap, or if you WanNa digital version like this, it's free. Just go to archive dot. Oregon you can get them I'm sure the library still have them to I guess if you don't want to buy them. Yet have the kids pick them pick the ending and open air, you know. Cool all right well. Thanks! I appreciate it. We'll. We'll do it again. Maybe do this one or chimney rock, or who knows there's so many. Pick Room. Go All right? Thanks guys for listening watching and Woolsey next time. These are so much fun I really enjoy Eddie does too, and I hope you will as well because you can be part of the action like I said. Go to the facebook page, and you'll see announcements, and you can jump in and get in on the action and chat with us and make comments, and whatever you WanNa, do so thank you for listening. Go to covert ner dot net for the ways you can get in touch with me and let me know what you think about this episode in other episodes. Until next time. Erred it up.
Remarkable Journey / Conversation with Ginny Gilder
"Entrepreneurs business owners professionals who seek excellence bringing the business classroom to you. It's the business builders show. Here's Marty wolf. Wiz. Welcome to the business builders show with Marty wolf and a special welcome to my guest host Jay Kelley O e along with Kellyanne our executive producer DC Taylor. We will be your guys on this learning journey Jay Kelley, holy. And I want to enthusiastically share stories and information to inspire leaders, and we are all leaders at some point. So you can then inspire others. You can find out more about Jay Kelley holy at and Jay Kelley, holy dot CO. That's Jay Kelley, holy dot CO. And you can find Kelly on Twitter linked on Instagram and Facebook the business builders show is distributed by C, suite radio. You can find the business builders show and many other fine shows on C suite radio. That's at WWW dot c dash sweet radio dot com. Various podcast is a part of the C suite radio network for more top business podcast. It's visit c desk sweet radio dot com. Okay, kelly. Let's get going. Thanks marty. This is Kelly hallway guest host of the business builders show. And I am absolutely thrilled today to have as our guest, my friend, Ginny Gilder, hey, Jenny. Hey, kelly. Thanks for inviting me. It's so good to talk to you again. All right for people who don't know you. You're in Olympia n-, you're the owner or part owner of of sports team the Seattle storm, you're an author a Yale graduate. Did you ever imagine? You'd have the career path. You've had. Okay. So the answer that question is so simple. No. Thinking when you went off to Yale. What did you think you were going to be doing with your life? Well, remember when I started in college. I hadn't even learned how to row yet. I hadn't even become an athlete. So when I was thinking what I was thinking when I started college was how am I going to survive for years at an Ivy league institution with all these people who are much smarter than I am. And then life too stunned folded of a love it. I love it. Okay. So let's go back to Yale and cassette. Making the varsity rowing team is is so pivotal in your story, and you outline it and your course correction. Okay. Let's let's for people who are listening. All right. You're five seven. You've got asthma. Not exactly the assets for rowing tame Honey t-, overcome the odds. You know, I think I was a little too ignorant to realize how high the odds were when I was a freshman. My asthma wasn't really problematic by the time. I got into my sophomore year. I really started getting sick a lot. And I my approach was oh, I'll just ignore it. But luckily, there was a very skilled nurse who worked with all the athletes who said to me, you're either going to deal with this or you're not going to be rowing. So she made me grow up, and she helped an enormous amount. And got me on a medical protocol that really lasted through my entire career. But I think I'm just really really good at ignorance the world's impo when it's not what I wanna hear. I love that. Because you had a coach sort of looked at you and said, yeah. Five seven this is not happening. You're not you're not like team material. Exactly. And I just felt so hard for rowing. I loved it so much. It was so different from meeting. I've ever done. I was in transpired. And I just wanted to keep going, and I think that's a really important part of life that people might not really think about especially when you're younger is how important it is to do what you love, and I'm not saying to ignore reality. I mean at some point reality would have won over if I hadn't made an Olympic team. Right. But you really should listen to yourself because doing something that is boring or feels tedious life can be long enough that that can really suck. It gets completely completely dragged down. I want to go back. 'cause I mean, I'm thinking of some of the interviews. I've heard you talk about that. It's kind of nice that younger women younger women athletes in particularly today. Get to take things for granted. And God bless, you know, the men have been able to do that for years. But for those who don't know the story, can you talk about the Yale rowing team and the legendary naked protest. So this was I started rowing in one thousand nine hundred ninety five title nine had been passed a few years earlier. Most of the Ivy league schools had gone co Ed in the late sixties and hadn't really thought about athletics for the women students that they were admitting when I started rowing the elements crew had just really been made a varsity sport, I think a year and a half earlier. So we would practice at the boat house, which was lovely the. The problem was it was twelve miles away from campus. And there were no locker room facilities for the women. So that meant the men would get we'd all get off water at the same time late in the afternoon. And the men would go shower and the women would go sit on the bus, wet and cold. We would then drive back the twelve miles which took about twenty five minutes. There was only one dining hall open. So we all had to go directly to dinner. So the women were sitting in wet clothes for three hours after practice. And we had a couple of women who are training for the nine hundred seventy six Olympic team who are on our squad who realize this was not going to fly when we all got back on the water in early February of seventy six it was an Olympic year is the first time women were going to be allowed to row in the Olympics. Thanks to the Canadians who brought in. And Chris ours to as our captain, basically cooked up this. Let's say alert to the athletic department, which was aware of the lack of Cicilline as but she an an Warner who was the other woman training for the Olympics decided that we were going to do a protest. A naked protest in front of the head of women's athletics. Woman named Johnny Barnette to really emphasize the problem. So she wrote a manifesto and nine hundred nine women of the women's of the crew got together. One morning. I it was early March wrote title nine on our backs in Yale blue ink covered ourselves up with our very fancy team issue sweats cotton sweats of the era and marched it's women's office. And well there was a stringer from the New York Times photographer from the daily news. Joanie Barnette was extremely surprised and the story went out the first page of the second section in the New York Times the next day AP wire it went about as viral as you could in the pre internet days and the university was shamed. And ended up building addition to the boat house. Adulterated victory. Oh, it's like it still makes me so emotional. But you still think you made the comment about the internet. We all these years later, we still sometimes have to shame people to get them to make make an effect these changes. But I thank you and your team for doing that. Because like you've said other women now can take these, you know, obviously, the facilities at the boat house or the equivalent when they're athletes they can take it for granted. But it has heck wasn't the wasn't the case back in nineteen seventy six you've made to Olympic teams amazing, but focusing on nineteen Eighty-four moment talk about coming back from disappointment. Because you really did think your Olympic career was over because of the US not participating in that Olympic Games. So the first thing I should say is that I thought my Olympic career was over before. Began because I didn't make a nine thousand nine hundred eighty Olympic team. I mean, I it's not like I had ever been on a national team. I started China for national teams in one thousand nine hundred fifty seven nine hundred seventy seven nine hundred seventy eight nine hundred seventy nine I got cut every year. So it wasn't like I was a shoo-in for the games. So the first issue was was I going to keep training for something that wasn't going to happen. And again, I was just so driven. I was so determined when the US Olympic Committee announced that they were going to name Olympic teams for every sport. I was well that was enough for me. I was going to keep training, and I was lucky because several of my national champion teammates from my team. We're also training is one of five women which huge number who is training at. Yeah. So that really helped. And then once I made the team and hit the boycott kind of the true impact, the the truth is that for me in one thousand nine hundred eighty. Making the team was such an accomplishment. I wasn't it's not that I didn't want to compete. But that was I can't say it was a lifelong dream because I had started rowing bright five years earlier, but it was that impossible dream, and it meant so much to make the team once I incorporated that kind of into my state of being if you will in my new reality, I started to become a lot more aware of kind of the political implications of wanting to do something that the country was fundamentally against and it was quite uncomfortable. Because we had all worked so hard for this, and we really were sacrificial lambs. We had no choice over this. People had worked years to make the Olympic team. Man, I was lucky because I got to try out again. But there were many athletes nine thousand nine hundred was their one and only shot so I felt a little bit like a traitor for wanting to go and being a little being unhappy that we weren't getting to go. And I also felt that I loved being an American, and if this was the sacrifice I was going to have to make I wasn't ever going to go to war. I would have to buck up and do it and recognize that was this was part of part of the deal. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So nineteen four you you continued to train you made the team. But there was some disappointment. When that one, what's what's the, what's what's the, you know, we talk about people pursuing their passion and doing something that they're really have their heart their soul in. But what's the downside of doing that? You know? The downside. I guess is the lows are low. And you don't really know the problem with committing is you end up, really, caring. So it's not like, oh, I stubbed my toe. It'll it'll stop hurting in five minutes. If you don't accomplish whatever it is you have in your sights, and it's big and you've worked at it for a long time. It can feel pretty devastating when it doesn't happen. You know for me though. I'm kind of like, I am a no guts, no glory kind of person. Even today. A lot much further down my road. I would much rather. Go bigger. Go home. Laughing PS. I've I've seen the interview a cycling around what does it one hundred ten mile crazy cycle race? I'm like, of course, you're you know, all in on this stuff. So I think really you have to decide what kind of life you want, and you have to decide what kind of risk you're willing to take a lot of different kinds of risks. There's intellectual risk. There's physical risk. There's emotional risk. There's financial risk. And I think every person if they really kind of want to have some say in directing their future has to have an honest conversation with themselves about what they're appetite is. And as it turned out, I have a pretty big appetite actually not for financial risk but for motion and intellectual risk and to a certain extent relationship risk because I'm willing to team up with people to try to make big things happen. I love doing that. And to do the work to make relationships work. Learn a lot in that rowing shell don't you? In terms of you know, everything you're talking about my guest today. Our guest today on the business builders show is Ginny Gilder Ginny. Where can people find you? Well, usually in Seattle you can come to Seattle storm game. There's a good plug get your seasons. Tickets. Get us yell say you're on the business builders show find Jiting right now. We're just to championship for the third and second time since I've been one of the owners of the team. But yeah, I have Ginny Gilder dot com. You can always check out the storm website. I tend to run under the radar Kelly. I get to talk to you, which I love, but I'm not out there doing a lot in the public. I tend to do much much more in my own backyard. I raise a lot of Helen Seattle. There's no question. You gotta meet Ginny. You've got to get to get a Seattle store and game. Are you going to get on a bike? And you gotta be Seattle. I I love every every part of that. Let's just before we jump into talking about the Seattle storm because I really do want to talk about that. I just want to kind of go of keep our footing in almost a Yale and Olympics. How's your athletic experienced influenced you as a business leader? So everything good about me. I blame on sports, but I will tell you that it took decades for some of the lessons to to actually land. It's not like I finished got my Olympic medal and trumped into the into the executive office and knew exactly how to act in the world. I really didn't it took a while to figure things out. But first of all people give up way too soon. That's probably one of the biggest is don't ever give up like don't give up. That's it doesn't mean necessarily that. If you're trying to open the door that you won't end up going through the window, and your path might change some, and you might realize that one goal is not exactly realistic. But inevitably something else becomes possible. Because of your persistence because of your dedication to an idea or some dream. That's one of the big ones the other one for me, which it really started to learn it in college and through rowing, but it really happened. It took so long is the importance of relationship and the importance and I'm not talking most intimate. Although, of course, that's important. I'm talking about whatever endeavor. You set your sights on accomplishing whether it's in sports, whether it's in business, whether it's an art. Is being able to work with whoever is going to support you in accomplishing that goal and figuring out how to deal with the tough stuff because it's easy to get along with anybody when life is good. It's when the shit hits the fan that you need to be able to talk directly to someone interest spectral way figure out how to get things back on track. And for me, that's invaluable. I said probably the two biggest things that's phenomenal thing though. Is that like say, no one ever goes it alone. Think about your own career. You know, even if you said, well, I was rowing by myself in a single scull. You still had a nurse at some point who helped you with your health and the coach and all that other kind of stuff and people tend to forget that at times mardi you're being really quiet. They're in the background as usual. I know. I know you're madly taking notes, but I am as a matter of fact, this this is a magical discussion. In a former basketball player nowhere near the level. We're talking about but the whole idea of the Seattle storm in how you got there. You're a rower what does that have to do with basketball? Well, it's a sport. Okay. I got it. Okay. Good answer. You know? Gives the back story. It was two thousand seven I had started an investment business too. Which is a very male dominated field. I was traveling all over the country. I wasn't home a lot. And I was noticing that. I didn't have a lot of women in my life, and I really felt disconnected from my community. So that was going what was going on with me in my own head. The Seattle Sonics were Anna storm were sold by a local Seattle light to a guy clay Bennett in Oklahoma who planned to move the team, and I had a friend who I had been on the board of a school with who was an avid basketball fan, and I did go to storm games is a season ticket holder and I saw her a game. And I said are you planning on trying to do anything to keep the storm here? And she said, she, you know, she was she was thinking about it. And I told her then if you if you need any help, let me now and she called a couple of weeks later, and so that was my kind of back story there. But what I say about owning a sports team is it's the intersection always a store WNBA team sports business and the move for social Justice. So I live on that corner. I love that corner. And it was owning the storm was. Was going. I felt would provide me with an opportunity to connect. With more women Mike to cone or women. It's obviously a franchise focused on women gave me a chance to work in the business world, which I find fascinating. And then gave me a chance to continue that push for equity which started when I was a freshman at Yale. Yeah. Was this aging that third piece in terms of social Justice talk more about that? You know, I'm really all about access to opportunities. So the WNBA let's is I think it's maybe twenty two years old. Maybe it's starting it's twenty third season this coming year, and that is a blink of an eye in terms of major league sports franchises. It's the one. It is probably the most successful sports Franch sports league for women in the United States. And it is just still you look at the salary gap. You look at the interest. You look at how the media portrays and how much time the media spends on showing women's sports, and you see the inequity. This is a long road. So I want to do my part. I if you know growing is never going to be a professional sport for many reasons and probably all of them good. But women's basketball is actually an interesting sport to watch. And really tell me why women should not have the same opportunities to pursue things. They love and for pay. Tell me why. They can be big silence. I'm not going to be able to come up with an answer to that one. I'll I'll just take a shot, and it's just a general just call it. Our general culture exactly I asked a change in and you're leading it you're one of the leaders in. So I have a question of follow up on that is so how in addition to the relationships you just described with the with the basketball team. How else are you sharing the lessons that you've learned with other women or business people? What else are you doing how how else are you involved insuring the lessons you've learned? Well, I would say a couple of ways first of all just we are looking at all the ways we can expand. Our storm business expanded annex on our brand and extended, and we think a lot about how can we provide support for women who seek leadership opportunities? So we're thinking about is there a business opportune. Entity there. Second of all I personally I feel like the universe kicked my butt so hard for so many years. It took me into my mid fifties. And it's true. I'm sixty okay. I'm old. Really took me until like the last five years when I finally felt like, oh, I understand all the lessons. The universe was trying to get learn. So now, I'm working on. How do I put those lessons together in a way that is not just palatable, but interesting to people say age twenty five to forty so that maybe they can sidestep some of the mistakes I made in getting to the lessons, and I'm working with my daughter on this actually his twenty-six we've created a little seminar series. That's helping me put together. My thoughts for my next book. Br. I'm gonna say braver sold on I already venturing down that even the thoughts of the next book. I mean, I personally I can't wait for that one. Because I love that whole idea of you know, how can you show people? Hey, here's here's my moment. At at. I'm fifty three so fifty three sixty whatever age, and you know hair here, ladies, here's Harry, you can fast track some of the. The setbacks or the mindset or the other crap that might be holding us back, and I would say Kelly really what the big push at the book is is engage in self reflection. It's so tempting to let the external world and your pursuit of certain goals, take you over but developing your own awareness of the world and your awareness of your biases. And how you see what's going on? How you valuate problems in relationships is probably the most important thing, you can do to really gain some freedom to choose your, life course. So we're talking about your future book. But let's focus on what's already out there. Let's make sure that everybody knows that what's available now. Because you said before we came on live that it's a great story that connects to what we're talking about today. What is the give me the title of the book again? It's course correction of is that correct? That's right. Oh, gosh. What is the subtitle? Is author. Let's just stick. With course. Correct. Correct. It's in the show notes that bold linked to that. Really? Of course correction is a memoir that it's a coming of age story that starts with my quest to really starts with my fallen in love with Ryan the first time I saw rowing shell and takes me to age forty. And basically intertwines my athletic pursuits with my own search for like who am I? And what what how am I going to be in the world? So it's a lot about family and love as well. I won't do any spoilers here. But it goes pretty deep into what it's like to learn to row not from a real technical place. I'd like to think that it's a more literary book than a than a step-by-step book. But if you're for people who are interested in the history of women's rowing or sports, if they're interested in one person's very personal story of what it took to become an Olympian. They're just interested in human interest stories, right? Those are all reasons to read it, and as you pointed out earlier people give up too soon, and your I mean, your persistence or flat-out stubbornness. To not let those kind of hurdles, and I think that, you know, for people that were like, you know, what what is what is their inner strength. What is it that is going to keep them going when you're sitting on a bus freezing cold, and you know, have a twelve mile ride. You know, what are you going to do because you love it so much and your book is extorting extraordinary in all of that. Ginny. I am indebted as always for your insight, and it is always such a pleasure to chat with you. Promise. You'll come back and share with us this next book in project will even get your daughter on with you and have a wonderful thanksgiving. Thank you as well. Thank you so much for this opportunity, always loved connecting with you Kelly. Thanks, Jay Kelley ho for being our guest host on the business builders show. You can learn more about Kelly at Jay Kelley, holy dot CO. That's Jake Kelly. Holy H, E Y. Dot c. And of course, you can learn more about me Marty wolf in the business builders show at mardi Wolfram business solutions dot com. That's mardi wolf business solutions dot com. Remember if you can get all our shows and many other great shows at C dash sweet radio dot com. Bringing the business classroom to you. It's the business builders show with Martin wolf as a loyal fan of the C suite radio show. We've got an unbelievable offer for you listeners to the business builders show. Get fifty percent off a cease wheat network membership. The C suite network will help you become the most strategic person in the room, you'll have access to top notch benefits in networking all helping you get the most out of your position. Take advantage of this limited time offer today. Learn more about the sweet network membership at C dash sweet network dot com slash CSSR. Again. That's fifty percent off a C suite network membership at C dash sweet network dot com slash CSR.
Wondery presents GURU: The Dark Side of Enlightenment
"In the mid two thousand, James Arthur Ray charismatic self help guru promised his followers a path to wealth and happiness, but not all who followed him finish their journey. This is the story told a new true crime miniseries from wondering called Guru the dark side of enlightenment James Arthur. Ray Wasn't well known until he was in the movie. The secret about a cosmic law of attraction that can. Can Alter the universe to improve believers, health, wealth and personal relationships. Soon Ray was guest on Oprah's TV show, and after that thousands of people began attending his seminars, he was pegged to be the next great self help Guru, but what many didn't know, were his more extreme methods methods that pushed his pupils to their limits, giving some the transformative life experience, they dreamed of and killing others. You're about to hear a brief clip from Wondrous Guru, the dark side of enlightenment while you're listening, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or you can binge all six episodes and free right now on the wonder up. It was march. Two thousand nine, and in a big chain hotel in new, Jersey a crowd milled around waiting. Once the doors opened everyone headed for the same place. It was a large auditorium with a big stage in front. The event was called the harmonic wealth weekend, a rigorous two day seminar that promised to get participants on the fast track to personal and professional success. It wasn't the kind of thing Ginny Brown was normally into, but her daughter Kirby had insisted that they go together. As they walked in, she had to admit the atmosphere was exciting. And they had a walk through a gauntlet I will say a cheerleaders who jumping up and down. Up The energy in the room and I remember saying to when women I said man you. You Girls Really Hedrick coffee this morning and she said to me Oh. We don't drink coffee like that's poison Oh. Okay, well. I do I love. As everyone took their seats. The Lights Dimmed James Arthur. Ray stepped onto the stage and began version of a speech. He often gave. Let's talk about what's changing right now. In your world, you see I firmly believe that you live in the most exciting time in our world history. To time where science and spirituality are realizing that their sister studies. James was tanned with a bright white smile, wearing a bright white shirt pretty trim athletic build. Daily good looking just can't get going in the morning without my confidence. Give me a frigging break. Total command of the audience laughed. They nodded their heads like yeah. That higher an energy kind of environment is just kind of fun you. You WanNa be part of it. You WanNa belong you don't WanNa. Stand down and be. Kind of against what's going on? Because James Ray was a star. Attraction says Langa tracks like an ASS. You Lock your attention upon that then another particle, which is in harmony with it is attracted another attract another enough bang. You've got a Mercedes. onstage he talked about reflecting on yourself and your position in life. Then began to pull audience members onto the stage and ask them questions and I'd like to ask for volunteers to help me out here. A couple of volunteers okay, come on both come on, give him a hand given that they come up with I. Ginny was impressed I was fascinated by his ability to really read someone. Read people really well, but as she watched, something began to Nag at her. There are a couple of times where he brought people up on the stage, and had them reveal very deep, personal troubling. Things in their life. Ginny is a clinical social worker and I sat there thinking as the train therapists those are the kinds of questions that I would ask if someone was sitting in my office, not in front of hundreds of people. I was fascinated an uncomfortable. She turned to her daughter Kirby who was mesmerized, just said you know that's that's. That's really not such a thing to do. But Kirby was focused on James Kirby was in her late thirties, and had bounced around careers and relationships. She wanted more success stability in her life. Ginny knew that Kirby had been doing her own soul searching and the James's teachings had already helped, and she was going to stay there to get the most out of the experience whether she believed everything or not. But neither of US ever thought. He was dangerous. Later that year after attending another James Ray, event with her Father Kirby, Brown would get in her car and drive to Sedona Arizona for a five day. Intensive retreat with James called spiritual warrior. For James's Followers, it was the pinnacle event of their journey and Kirby spent her life. Nearly ten thousand dollars to be there. The retreat started on October, fourth, two, thousand nine. Five days later Ginny was at home in upstate New York. Around eight am the doorbell rang. At Eight fifteen. The trooper comes to the door. And asked me if I know Kirby, Brown. In my first thought was. Oh my God is she in some kind of trouble, but it was more than trouble. Ginny would never see her daughter again. Subscribed to wonder his new miniseries, Guru Apple podcasts spotify or binge all six episodes and listen ad free on the wonder yet. We cherish to go to the moon and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. I'm Chuck Rosenberg on my podcast. The oath I speak with those who sacrificed for the common good who believe in collective responsibility who do things because they are hard, our conversations on the author thoughtful, civil, respectful essential, we bring these leaders and their struggles and successes to life this week. Former judge and united. States Attorney Carol Lam, when I walked through that. That door, they would all look at me then I would think to myself I know what you're thinking about me right now, and by the time we leave this room, you're going to be thinking something else. Join me for season. Three of the oath and MSNBC podcast search for the oath wherever you're listening right now and please subscribe new episodes. Everyone's Day.
Iron Ladys policies cripple Stark Industries
"So so we interrupt your regularly scheduled moment of silence to bring you the news wall Helsinki Centauri Prime Demolition Cigna Sofas Skoro drew ideo news run McCall's most podcasting secretly from twenty Jay Thousand Leagues Below skied headquarters is the Nautilus at nine August well good morning. Welcome to the Nautilus at nine nine Markets Nemo Brin New Tomorrow's news cycle recycled cycle today whether you're listening to this and the Stereo of your read Fifty Eight Plymouth fury drives down the highway on fire or perhaps you're listening in a large radio telescope and hopes to find a clue to where life originated or perhaps contact your dead father. Now's a good time to fix yourself. A stiff drink listened to the news from a multitude of different dimensions that are hopefully worse off than when you're occupying right now I'm currently enjoying one of my favorite on air cocktails. Call it a seven and seven of nine which is made by slipping yourself into your very own clingy silver jumpsuit with Corset four inch heels then replicating about a gallon of Seagram seven crown whiskey injecting it with nine ounces of Nanno probes Addison drink the cocktail through your tubul hence straws in an emotionless state for full assimilation effects Righty is futile well if you happen to be lucky enough to still be an existence to listen to this. You'll know that our top story is a bit of a double whammy it. It seems that fall has come early. This summer is half the population of beings in the universe where recently transformed into little delicate autumn leaves yes the mad type known as Thanos was at the last minute of his life able to snap his gauntlet wearing fingers disappearing half the rich chaff the poor and half of everybody else in between leaving the rest of us to put our leaf blowers and rake up our family and friends as composed and just when you thought it couldn't get any more depressing there's been yet another catastrophic blunder from stark industries and unfortunately the founder Tony Stark also known as the iron man was nowhere to be found for comment apparently has scaled back slightly more conservative version of the Global Defense Program also known as Iron Lady was accidentally activated yesterday and to no surprise the. A._A.. I robot immediately got God complex and began to attack but this time the attack was on policy in a cold and calculated approach the iron lady promptly eradicated stark steelworkers union then the bionic baroness with her torey like like tactics suddenly began to assault benefit recipients gay people and the working class families employed by stark industries moments later in with steely precision the iron lady announce stricter immigration policies for illegal aliens earthbound or otherwise but not before banning all milk privileges from children in the stark industries daycare program well. I guess that means the mighty door better get his immigration papers sorted out fast. If the avengers are ever going to assemble again or he's going to be stuck between a Ragnarok and hard place uh well big news in the world of sports. Today is the very first all women's quidditch team known as the Broom Hilda's are sweeping away the competition with six wins and six days only six weeks of the finals finals. The Broom Hill is fast becoming the serious contenders for the Quidditch Cup coach Ginny Weasley attributes her teams rapid ascent to the top of the pitch to a new metric approach to quit statistics and that our team was selected exclusively on their O._B.. P or on broom percentage. Here's coach we now mess down by and when you look at the O._B.. Of players like Morgan the FE and heck it combined with that budget batting average will what can I say. We're hang game of magical out here which weasley term magic ball has swiftly entered the lexicon meaning that players undervalued by the markets such as La heck eight or even Sabrina. The teenage witch are being drafted using a rigorous statistical analysis rather than the more traditional speed or contact. Here's coach Weasley again yeah. We've just three is a new taste. Is that means the quote is getting every time with death into win the day to stolen of course a player who's really defying gravity ready out there in the quidditch pitches alphabet throb as the team seeker who's a real crowd favourite and really wicked goats Ginny Weasley of course is married to the famous herald potter loving proud and supportive husband who is also the anti Christ the sound of the bucks refunding vortex are portable radio porthole to the other side of the elsewhere do that in and have a bit of listen mayday. They may this will be my final transmission if anyone can hear this. It's most likely too late to help. It's been one thousand nine days these wild and barren lands and there's still no sign of food. Everyone's fatigued Eddie Week. Morale is load. Your total communication breakdown within the group is imminent yeah you at the radiophone any food no. I'm sorry I have no food. No one does yeah. I know right like total delirium out there. What yeah like everyone is so hang angry and I'm like hey chill lacks? Everyone toby such a friend of me. Frenemy yeah like we should be creating opportunities with each other not coop petition. You know what I'm saying. No I don't know what you're saying. I'm saying I can myrtle sandwich right now. Bro You get me not really know percent which is not a word. Yes it is no it's not okay. Hey look man you know the word Sandwich yes and you know the word croissant. Yes I understand but present which is not a word speaking of angry I can assure you I am not angry. Either because angry is also not a word come on man. Everybody's out here. I'm angry. You're saying angry guys ninety food. No sorry but this guy over here's having a ginormous crime axe right now not because that's the thing what you said doesn't exist. He sounds hey is not a word God. I am sick of all this smash ups language. Crack Your bromance your booty lists. Send your brunch come on man. Everybody says Brunch Brunch who said Brunch brunches might flavor it. I have a sport God. Branch is amazed balls. No it isn't nothing is amazed balls. Oh my don't what is that smell. Sorry got excited when I heard about the brunch and sort of sharded a bit Jesus tell you what is amazed balls of course Sandwich Bacon eater quo sandwich eager that doesn't that means nothing. I'll tell you what it means. Redone delicious up shut up all of you morons. I just don't here with more out of here. Don't follow me let me die in peace. What Fund yeah everybody does a hand grenade to blow uh-huh what angry aid yeah like angry and handgrenade no? I don't like it either sorry. I'm a little bit out of it. I haven't eaten. It's okay me. Neither none of us have God I hate the Hunger Games back and it looks like the Rim is making headline news again. Today is the moisture farmers and the remote planet of tattooing have successfully lobbied to own the term water. This means that other planets it's in the galaxy including the ocean planet of Camino or the planet of Nabu which has an entire gun can population living under it sees we'll have to change their terminology when referring to their own H.. Two Oh so far terms like transparent milk or planet juice have been thrown around substitutions with a disturbances being felt around the galaxy and through the force of the concessions the empire's made on behalf of the moisture farmers have really been giving the jet is serious migraines. This outrageous decision has also been met with harsh criticism from the Galactic Board of health because of the overwhelming evidence that moisture farmers have been hiding their waters nutritional value. Apparently it's come out that water has no vitamins calcium iron protein fat or carbs ease. What's the point of drinking it then? It's like that Messiah Fury Road always says do not become addicted to water amen men and Morton Joe Amen and with that I think it might be timed right Outta here. Shiny Chrome Lie Markets Nemo of the Nautilus at nine reminding you to recharge a capacitor stimulate Yoursel androids and Tangle Dangle Dangle Rangel your transistors that we yeah in remember dark is Wade Mos- like harvest Nautilus at nine was created written and performed by David Bradford and produced by Launchpad Theater Company. Christina Patterson was the voice of Ginny Weasley. The Hanger Games was voiced by Morgan trannies. David Radford Christina Patterson and Chris Cooley Tech Commander of media mechanics is Christina Patterson great title and she's also the voice you're adhering now low podcast land make sure to subscribe rate and review the Nautilus at nine on Itunes and find out more about all things launchpads go to launch pads theater dot com or like us on facebook or why not become a skynet tyrant and follow the Nautilus at nine on twitter at Nautilus at.
Toxic relationships - How and when to go no contact
"It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and relief with active OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free heme boil get Doctor Judah here Dr Ginny W. t. f. and tonight's topic in my practice who are bound up in a toxic relationship cut the ties so we're GONNA be talking about toxic parents and talk I just I run the psychological healing center and we do a lot of work in Sherman we have a little office in Beverly Hills and lots and lots of patients who contact sorry it's Epstein our our marriage five grief therapist and he is just beginning to learn the mind map system and other via a mind map so just a little bit about the mind map and how it random occurring a vet where whoops I ended up with someone who is in your life so let me shrink it for your little bit via the mind map the eight four three to eight to six and I would love to hear how to do it and I also have a lot of information on this subject clearly this is a hostage situation and please feel free again to share dysfunctions get laid down from early years of life and the mind left out of them setting better boundaries making better choices the effect of other people and at the effect of toxic people up of three panels of the mind map you will see wound this is the control the neck neglect there's obviously physical elect whether it be physical neglect or be emotional neglect that way of of of really disconnecting from your children and causing shing show up as what is happening in the middle of the fight back then it's again it say it's a no exit plan or lying sidey and even psychosomatic disorders to emotionally bleed and react panel number by encoding of the fiber of of of definition conclusions about the world and so depending on the type of injury we Hi what is your name please hi dawn had been there before it's a beautiful state and is a cooling down yet do oh wow okay okay so tell me a little bit about what you yeah I didn't know this until not only your videos but others do you how do you define Narcan path what's your experience okay so tell me what he was like and how you experienced every way he could okay so when I listed off the five childhood last three letter word that I don't like too much didn't sexually abuse occurred okay where my I call them enemies sibling I'm too I've finally wrote them very long dissertations than them black sheep so are my ex has been amies friend's yeah because they don't see me finally go enough okay well congratulations talk about all these elements because as you might know I have a lot of videos on sibling vote so that they become flying monkeys to the parents and it's not your side okay so whatever understand how these toxic bonds are formed so when we were abused were soaking it in we're blueprinting were getting the the messages the people that are our emotional source or so we hope they a father and so they will therefore as Alice Millar says abuse or neglect because they would rather be the batch child toxically tied to your father because you need them he's your father you WanNa kind of a a horrible deal here will where you need him and he there's and so on and so forth and then and then and setting you up for partners who may do similar to that energetic force and then you take the ride down into okay so so all right so now you're therapist only briefly she was saying that they want so badly that they're trying to bring me down anyway they can the color of the collapse of the system because if you have a dysfunctional system so rental system the Blue Ribbon standing for dad the pink one for mom if this is all an unhealthy foundation than the house is a house real good scapegoat and you're stepping out then and they don't want to reshuffle the system because they already got the system and you're part collapse it's GonNa Father Your father will not have his his his his aggressions out or or to esteem himself they incentivizing you with to keep you in the family structure I have no interest in doing from you know not liking that they want me to return to their church I'm like I've been out for so so did you pick as your ex also similar sound like it gets much worse what what does he do to top this off age yes order line okay with the borderline rage alcohol but he is a prescription drugs yourself from the situation we disagreed on everything I in our class these are signs canaveral like that service animal or not and I just two thousand seven okay and well he's long I don't know how to me okay so your father's been long gone okay so let let's just instinct PhD is your relationship toxic and you've mentioned of destruction of a relationship and the contempt is just bubbling violations the cruelty the sexual violations the Okay but there's enough there to to know in this case isn't it and in if you're in a toxic relationship is very difficult because there's also injured you and you never repaired with them or you never repaired in therapy you and so you keep chasing and chasing and along with the chasing becomes relief of the person coming back and repairing and re esteem by them changing they're gonNA now restore you to wholeness thinking to all the negativities it's hard to to you know there's so much peer pressure the thing is that just because apparently gone it doesn't mean they're gone from your head so this Paul dots a huge problem and oftentimes I call it active blinks or the Flying Monkeys Aka agents of something similar you know at this point there's really not a point other my my my co worker my boss or whatever should so if any contact is mentally so unhealthy for you that it's time to leave no turning back in the sad part because it's been set up that way so there's no there's no comfort zone here I'm down and if you don't get out of the pathway it'll fall on your pervert tiddly easy it's just my brother and have 'em just barely right so they're taking on your father's traits I'm GonNa move on in a minute you should go people how these bonds are formed and then your head okay so if you don't already have a copy of my book get from through to from the injuries through deconstructing them and morphing bat and the main thing is that you complete the psychological or or lovers or coworkers or her anybody so just after so long had you know enough is enough enough what is your name please Pat I can't how you talk Well I was born in twit histrionic psychopath okay so she did a lot of acting out yes yes okay so that's the history onic they used the act out a psychopath okay so psychopath is when people crossover it's borne out of childhood wounds I believe I don't NBA that I'm not a geneticist I'm psychologist and I get to watch major inorganic cause of psycho pathology so what are you suffering from given this background I don't have to trust or support or women even men it's like I all the action that you name call you slut I guess yeah I mean I just keep it's pretty intense so do you think that to her and you're younger than her obviously you're her daughter so yes that makes sense that makes sense okay okay so I mean that they create a kind of sense of norm even though it may fear of of of of mistrust than it's no surprise for the first stage of development the Ericsson model trust versus mistrust the only feel the pillars I'm using panel three now day builds you up rather than repeat out you don't get that then you are more something they're not gonna like it so does that make sense to you that who your so if you were to hazard a guess that how you perceive yourself how do you perceive like get to a point where like I I have golds just by myself properly now but matching matching this imprinting yes so he right feel like you're worthy or or all of the things that our parents be lowered your expectations of the world will be lowered and then you will become again you know you spin out and recreate and you was unsustainable and toxic so I never had a family and my parents are passed on emotionally ABC's skipped a few parts. I mean I don't think you can really evolve something this all of this well he remarried and a- As you know the family punching bag crazy stories about me that weren't true like like even looking back Zazi being like crazy stuff like seeing another town nick part of it so she literally turned everybody against you and who's your friend who's your enemy can you trust people is I think a lot of it is and I experimented but I say I just live more in isolation and Dan giving your worldview and your your family dynamics it's tone biology if a cell is being infiltrated with poisons and down so what happens to sell when they're too permeable no one there's a poisonous environment and their protective layers been penetrated you're you're membrane as a child was permeable nutritional so to speak however that's not what you received penetrated you see and so's the result of that you have to build the wall with the wall up is what you don't get I loved and you also don't receive the nutrients so in an ideal world we hey so that we're we're alone we want to somehow since that that vulnerability was already violated it's so you see where this the stuck for you are you are you currently in therapy I that's how I actually found out that I had PTSD and I guess I just I don't know I guess maybe that's the only me or request and you can email anybody could email me doctor daddy on the team and just know that the journey is not an easy in cognition and behaviors is just not going to be sustainable I think you you I hope now have you now have a better understanding eight and your father's gone and so became so how do you get out of the double dungeon of darkness as you got a source the pain be and then reboot the system right okay so to your your friends your family it's free and it us of childhood injuries and how they create a horrible we're having these reactions to what happened in this is not who you S. thank you so much GD welcome it's my pleasure and Ori everyone else feels like they can not feel so alone you know this is not just a gloss over kind of therapy fun it is just that it's very ultimately releasing and healing a two eight two six and the the point here is that psychosomatic when you feel your shoulders tense when you get a headache when you're feeling well then you know that something's really off and so trust around this person because they're your boss or their your child or their your if it comes to the point where it's absolutely making you sick and aw I'm sorry Jenny Hi Oh my parents are yes I can hear you I was wrong you know what why don't you why don't you turn down has my paintings are narcissist so and I know alley my father Okay callback Oh assist my dad's a narcissist you know we all right I see and regarding bowl where the people are just being used to satisfy the needs of call it the disposable disposable consciousness so and so what has this left you with the hand you know okay up curious to know how you do it where well I feel like I know when people like cops tendency aw you said you do give them or don't give them the the has no empathy that you just think about themselves even though for goal look you said you were an impasse and if you're the type of person of your softness are going to regard you as how how and when to let people go we have to understand that we're co creating of allowance is the way I'd like to put it so if you allow people to talk to you like that yeah exactly to do it too if they those options you know it's I don't know yeah because they have like you know McCullough Pendon Like I have I'm not very hard what I was just GonNa say the way I like to think about as GI ownership being in a relationship is a matter of earning that relationship you oh I think a healthy relationship is symbiotic one where this since wellbeing not just taking from the system because when you take take that's a train the child is steaming the child they're using the child to steam themselves so I just WanNa hit up one other topic which is how to leave the system you you you just gotTa you know somebody's the domestic violence I have to you just have to let them go not necessarily mm-hmm I because maybe they're just not in the state of mental health where they you're pretty balanced and
Preview - GURU: The Dark Side of Enlightenment
"Love this podcast. Support this show through the cast supporter feature. It's up to you. How much you give and there's no regular commitment. Just click the link in the show description to support now. Welcome to words matter with Katie. Barlow and Joe Lockhart. Welcomed two words, matter Katie Barlow. Our goal is to promote objective reality as a wise man once said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts, words have power and words have consequences. At words matter. Mostly stick the politics, history and public affairs. We listen to and enjoy all kinds of podcasts. That's why we want to tell you about a great new podcast from our friends at wondering. We've talked about wondering before, and not only are we proud sponsor? We were among their millions of loyal fans. If you've ever listened to a wondering podcast, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. More than three years ago, American history tellers was my introduction to podcasts and I continue to eagerly await each new episode. And now wonder has a new true crime mini series. We think you'll really enjoy. In the mid two thousand James, Arthur Ray was a charismatic self help Guru who promised his followers a path to wealth and happiness, but not all who followed him finished their journey. This is the story told in the new true crime miniseries from wondering called Guru the dark side of enlightenment. James Arthur Ray wasn't really very well known until he was in a movie, called the secret, and then was a guest on Winfrey's television. Show a few times. Soon after that thousands of people started attending his seminars and he was pegged to be the next great self help Guru, but what many did know about where his more extreme methods? Methods that pushed his students to their limits, giving some the transformative life experience they dreamed of. And killing others. You're about to hear a preview, and while you're listening. Be Sure to subscribe to wonder his New True Crime Mini Series Guru the dark side of enlightenment. At, wondering DOT FM backslash words matter underscore, Guru. Download it on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your shows. That's wondering DOT FM backslash words matter underscore guru. Two thousand nine and in a big chain hotel in New Jersey a crowd milled around waiting. Once. The doors opened everyone headed for the same place. It was a large auditorium with a big stage in front. The event was called the harmonic wealth weekend, a rigorous two day seminar that promised to get participants on the fast track to personal and professional success. It wasn't the kind of thing Ginny Brown was normally into, but her daughter Kirby had insisted that they go together. As they walked in, she had to admit the atmosphere was exciting. And they had a walk through a gauntlet. I will say a cheerleaders who were jumping up and down. Up The energy in the room and I remember saying to one woman. I said man you. You girls really had your coffee this morning and she said to me Oh. We don't drink coffee like poison. Okay well I do I love. As everyone took their seats. The Lights Dimmed James Arthur ray stepped onto the stage and began a version of a speech often gave. Let's talk about what's changing right now in your world, you see. I firmly believe that you live in the most exciting time in our world history. To time where science and spirituality are realizing that their sister studies James was tanned with a bright white smile, wearing a bright white shirt. Pretty Trim Athletic Build. Daily good looking just can't get going in the morning with my confidence. Give me a frigging break. Total Command of the audience people laughed. They nodded their heads. Like yeah, you know that higher in energy kind of environment is just kind of fun you. You want to be part of it. You want to belong you don't WanNa. Stand and be. Kind of against what's going on? Because James. Ray was a star. Law of attraction says Lanka tracks like an as you lock your attention upon that then another particle, which is in harmony with it is attracted, and others attract another. Bang you've got a Mercedes. onstage he talked about reflecting on yourself and your position in life. Then, he began to pull audience members onto the stage and ask them questions and I like to have for volunteers to help me out here. A couple of volunteers okay, come on both come on, give him a hand give a hand. They come up with I. Ginny was impressed I was fascinated by his ability to really read someone you. He read people really well, but as she watched, something began to navigate her. There are a couple of times where he brought people up on the stage, and had them reveal very deep, personal troubling. Things in their life. Ginny is a clinical social worker and I sat there thinking. As the train therapists those are the kinds of questions that I would ask if someone was sitting in my office. In front of hundreds of people I was fascinated and uncomfortable, she turned to her daughter Kirby. Who was mesmerized? Just said you know that's that's. That's really not such a great thing to do. But Kirby was focused on James. Kirby was in her late thirties and had bounced around careers relationships. She wanted more success and stability in her life. Ginny knew that Kirby had been doing her own soul searching and the James's teachings had already helped, and she was going to stay there to get the most out of the experience whether she believed everything or not. But neither of US ever thought. He was dangerous. Later that year after attending another James Ray Event with her father Kirby Brown would get in her car and drive to Sedona Arizona for a five day. Intensive retreat with James called spiritual warrior. For James's followers it was the pinnacle event of their journey, and Kirby spent her life savings nearly ten thousand dollars to be there. The retreat started on October fourth, two, thousand nine. Five days later, Ginny was at home in upstate. New York. Around eight am the doorbell rang. At Eight fifteen. The troop comes to the door. And asked me if I know Kirby Brown. In my first thought was. On my God. is she in some kind of trouble, but it was more than trouble. Ginny would never see her daughter again. Subscribe to wonder his new miniseries guru on Apple podcasts, spotify or binge all six episodes and listen ad free on the wondering. Thank you for listening to words matter, please rate and review words matter on apple podcasts and other podcast providers.
Halloween Hangover Listener Mail, Part 1
"Fundraise is the future of real estate investing? That's right fund rise delivers the kind of investing power, you usually only see giant institutions bringing real estate's unique potential for long term growth in cash flow to individual investors, getting started as simple unusually takes less than five minutes. When you invest you'll be instantly diversified across dozens of real estate projects each one carefully vetted and actively managed by fund rises team of real estate pros van you can use their intuitive investor dashboard and real time reporting system to monitor the progress of each property within your portfolio, that's the future of real estate investing. So if you're ready to get started, visit fund rise dot com slash mind. That's F you in D R. I S E dot com slash mind to have your first three months of fees. Waived again, that's fun dries dot com slash mind. Welcome to stuff to blow your mind from how stuff works dot com. Hey, welcome stuff to blow your mind, and my name is Robert lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. And we are bringing Newsom listener mail today. This is going to be our special Halloween hangover edition normally these days. I think we're we're trying to do about one listener mail episode a month. We get a lot of great listener mail. There's no way for us to read it all on the show, but we've been trying to to get more of it featured on their without over listener mailing you. But at the same time, we got so much. Good stuff this Halloween, and we're also trying to get through the thanksgiving season right now that we thought we would bring you a special two parter of all Halloween monster science and discworld count as monster science. Yes, they do. Yes. Definitely. We definitely have some squirrel contents. Additional squirrel content that I think stems from our are designated, squirrel, stiff hill episodes. So we're not gonna make it a thing of featuring, you know, two part listener mails going forward. But for Halloween. We'll do it. We'll do it. This one's plus Carney has been. Main lining a horror films about possessed technology, and is is exhibiting a number of shocking symptoms. So hopefully, this will help get the Halloween bugs out of our trusted male robot. Have you noticed how many of the normal kind of wearing gear grinding sounds his service usually make have been replaced by banshee moans? Oh, yeah. And in fact, a haunted. Well, girl, climbs out of his console like every fifteen minutes like clockwork. I dunno where they're all going. The last time I tried to boot him up. I got this ghost has performed an illegal operation and must be exercised. So I I don't know how you do like if they have an anti virus for that. Or what I don't know. We're just like I said we're going to work through it. Hopefully, these episodes, we'll take care of it. A couple of other things I wanna point out at the top of this episode. First of all if you go to stuff to stability, mind dot com. They'll be a store tab at the top that goes to our T public store. And I am told by the time you listen to this. We should have some exciting new like black Friday. And holiday designs in that store. I'm talking squirrel and Scud merchandise. You've all been asking for it. It should be there. Louis financing. We've been asking for to be there. They should be bringing those designs. Yeah. And I'm also really excited about the prospect of a special Christmas edition of the all hail the great bass A-List shirt because nothing says the holidays like a little information hazard, all I want for Christmas is to be let out of this digital dungeon. Speaking of digital dungeon, Joe. And I have been hard at work on a on a second series a second how stuff works series that should be publishing next month. That's right beginning in December. Robert, and I are going to be launching a brand new show. We're bringing a lot of the same style. You know, weirdness and approach that we bring the stuff to your mind, only, we are going to be applying it to inventions. That's right. The name of the show is invention. And in each episode is going to be just Joanna. Talking about different key inventions in human history, where they came from who developed them who invented them if there if there is even a singular inventor, we can point to one of the themes of the show is going to be not just how inventions are created. But how our technology changes us a lot of times. We don't think necessarily about the the impact on human nature, the different inventions have. That's right. It's it's going to be a fun show. And I think if if everyone everyone who enjoys stuff to blow your mind is gonna find something love in this one as well. It's currently slated to be to come on just once a week. I think on a Monday so on a Monday, I believe it's going to be that kind of thing. It's going to be a Monday show. Start your week with some invention. Of course, you'll be hearing way more about this in the weeks ahead. Okay. Should we jump right into some Halloween listener mail? Yeah. Bring it to us Carney. Okay. I think we should start. We got a bunch of great emails about our Jenny green teeth episode. Yeah. Of course, Jimmy green teeth is. The spirit that haunts the the duck weed covered waters and pulls in children to their drowning deaths. Now, we got a wonderful Email from our listener, Jane who linked me to probably the best horror movie I've seen this year. And it turns out it was a British public service announcement commercial. No, yes, this is the one with Donald Pleasants. I knew about this previously, and I've just completely forgotten about. I didn't bring it up in the Geneva. Green teeth episode at all, but I think the guy who does the scar folk stuff on the web shared this on Twitter a few years ago and down did buy it what we should read the Email. Yeah. Go for it. Okay. From jane? Hi, guys. I've just finished listening to your Jenny green teeth episode. It made me think of a couple of things I is a really famous ad in the UK or England at least called the spirit of dark water. I think it's called. I think it's called the spirit of dark and lonely waters or something like that picking up. She says it's from the seventy s I believe and is aimed at warning children away from standing water much like Jenny green teeth the spirit of dark water. We'll take reckless children, and drown them a primary difference is the spirit is male and dressed more or less as the grim reaper. You can find the ad on YouTube. It's regularly voted one of the scariest ads of all time. And the other is a tiny anecdote my mum forbade me from wearing a. Green sash at my wedding as it's bad luck. As far as I could tell it's because it's the color of ferries, and you don't want those guys playing tricks or even placing curses on your special day. Keep up the good work Jane from the south of England. Can we just play a bit of that spirit of dark and lonely water? Add oh, let's do. I am this pivot of duck and loan. They will too. Ready to trap the Larry the shell off the food. And this is the kind of place, you would expect find me. Expects to finally here. Let's see. That cool is. The Bank is the pre. Chefs are easy. That they unlimited ones. Easiest to. This week. It'll never take his. Fool would ignore this. But does one bone every minute. Under the to the traps old cars that states, we hidden debt. It's the perfect place. Fun accident. Children. Have no. Recommended. Back. That ad is magical. It is just magical. It's like it's taking this original idea of what horrors for you know, for warning the children away from the danger and doing it, quite literally. I mean, I feel there are a lot of PSA's that play on fear, but they don't play on it as as explicitly in the sort of horror fiction realm as this one does like it makes them on Stor. Yeah. It's it's pretty great. And it's it it is interesting to see this is like a continuation of of this this tradition. This English tradition of pointing out, and and really embodying the fear associated with these these lonely ponds and Donald Pleasants voice. It's so good. He just really sells. It could anybody else have done that. Maybe if it had been narrated by Christopher Lee, maybe. Yeah. But I don't think he could've voiced, you know, malicious pond scum cried as. Quite as well as Donald Pleasants. That's yeah. He's Donald Pleasants reedy voices. Kind of like it suggests things floating on stagnant water. Yeah. I'm not even sure who who you'd get to do it nowadays. I don't know. There's some great British character actors. I'm sure that could could have some fun with it though. Is this an Andy circus kind of thing? I dunno Indy. Circuits might lean into it a little bit too hard. He'd over government. Yeah. Yeah. But but he's great. So put him on the list. All right. Here's another one related to Ginny. This comes to us from Emma. Hi, Robert, Joe. I just listened to your episode about Jenny green teeth and absolutely loved it. I'm actually in college and writing a senior capstone about hag sandwiches from different cultures, including Ginny. That's how I came across your podcast. Oh, I noticed. A few really interesting things that I wanted to share with you one is about the song featured in that folklore article. Oh, yeah. There's a song. We talked about it in the episode just because there was an article that mentions Jenny green teeth, but there was some documenting. Ng of really grizzly folk ballads that children were singing in the the playground. This is the whole my mother she killed me. And put me in a pie in something like that. Yeah. So anyway, she continues. It is very similar to the song featured in the German Grimm fairy tale called juniper tree. It goes my mother she killed me. My father he ate me. My sister little Marlin gathered together, all my bones tied them in a silk handkerchief, laid them beneath the juniper tree KYW wit KYW wit. What a beautiful bird am. I. The story concludes with the bird sun dropping a millstone upon the head of the mother which reminded me of the stone under which the bones are placed in the song, which you spoke to the I guess they got placed under a stone. I didn't remember that part. There's a lot of desecration in that selling. She continues. You talked about the significance of the humanized personified threat being female and mentioned that it seemed like a way to make it less threatening because one might perceive a man as a greater threat while I totally agree with you the men traditionally would be seen at to present greater danger. I also want to share something that came across in. My research old women are often the sources of evil in folklore and fairy tales because women in the form of mothers and witches hold quite significant power over children, and she points to an NPR article wire old women often the face of evil fairy tales and folklore how if I never read this before I know twenty fifteen she says this basis its findings primarily on the work of the famous critic. Mario totter who proclaims that the power held by mothers over children in the fears children have regarding mother's like rejection, and or starvation are manifested like handle and gretel the mother rejects the children and the witch attempts to cannibalize them as a manifestation of these these. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, a dangerous man is just sort of par for the. Course. Right. Is that really a monster? That's just sort of like what you might expect some strange man to be the dangerous woman is seen as more primordial perversion, right? Yeah. So she has a couple of other bits on here that a respond to later because it involves some points were brought up by number of different listeners. Budgets has again. I loved your podcast all the best him. It's true. I think we did kind of skip over the significance of a female, which is to certain extent in that episode. But, but it is something we have touched on in the past the inherently misogynistic principle that is at play in any kind of witchcraft belief system. Yeah. Definitely. It's also interesting to think about all this though in terms of of what I understand to be the so some of the patterns of fear and fear mongering in in Britain, especially in recent history. Because because certainly there is a there's a strong sense of stranger danger. That was promoted here in the United. States. But also in the UK as well. Oh, yeah. And of course, that tends to revolve around the fear of strange men as opposed to strange women. Yeah. Yeah. This is a topic. Is probably worth exploring in greater detail. Just like where do these where do these fears come from? And then what points are the fires really stoked. And then once they are ingrained in the culture, how difficult is it to actually like bring them back down to realistic levels. Yeah. And you definitely see the these repeated patterns of like flare ups about fears of child abductions, you know, you see it going way back with the idea of like the changeling legend, the idea that ferries would kidnap your infant and take it away or that or that which is might steal your infant. And I don't know us. It's blood to oil. It's broom or something like that. But then later in in the twentieth century, you certainly saw these flare ups of grossly exaggerated fears about the likelihood of children being obstructed, right? Yeah. And feels fears of pedophile 's. Yeah, I always come back to Chris Morris's fabulous bit of satire on the brass. I news television show that he put together. There was one episode called pay to get in. That was all it took all the existing. Pedophile stranger danger, fears that were that were present in in in Britain at the time like creating the idea that they're just creeps everywhere. And if you take your eyes off your child for one second somebody'll, grab them, right? And just just really turned everything up to eleven and that episode, for instance, there's this one segment about how a notorious pedophile is launched into space to keep him from having access to children, but then to everyone's horror. They realized that they have accidents included a child in the space capsule. And now he is trapped with the better file space. It was the one thing we didn't want to happen. That was a very controversial episode, by the way, not everyone appreciated the humor. All right. Here's another bit of Jimmy green teeth listener mail from Jamie. Hey, guys. I listen to your Jimmy green tea episode, and I had thought about Wyatt danger. Like Ginny had to be assigned to an already dangerous thing. Like a pit of water. Now, we ask this in the Assode, right? And they continue I think it may come from the need to have an active danger for to be taken more. Seriously. A pit of water being dangerous relies any falling into it. Whereas a monster can come out and get you. I think we tend to think of things we have control is being less scary than the unknown. Just thought love the show Jamie candidate, Jamie. I think that is a great point and actually multiple listeners made that point I thought maybe we'd mentioned something like that on the episode. But multiple people wrote in the tell us that. So I guess maybe we didn't. I know one thing that I pondered the episode was that part. And I still think this is definitely a part of it is is. Is that the idea of a monster an imaginary creature being a threat to your own child is somehow less horrific and easier for a parent to comprehend and think about compared to the idea of them accidentally drown. Well, that would be the psychological effect on the parents. And I guess you'd have a question over whether parents were actually believing Jenny green tea that feel like that would be probably less likely right because it was Reiner three bogey in. And I think the nursery Bogue aspect of it would make it easier like knowing that it's made up like, hey, this thing that it's easier for the parent to talk about right? Like, I'm deeply terrified of this in I need to impart some of this territory you, but if we if we put this fabulous twist on it, then somehow, it feels less just soul destroying to talk about it. And I think that's part of it. But I also think everyone is pretty spot on with this this premise that by may. Making it an active threat, right? It it is making up for some shortfalls and say the child's threat analysis where they think oh, there's this cool. Little bog. I should walk right up to it in throw sticks into it. Throws rocks into it, whatever. And they may not be able to realize, oh, those rocks are really slippery. Yeah. I get up to get too close. I'm likely going in or they're they're just overconfident and children often. Are he's you know children. See they feel like they're invincible when they're under their own power. But you give them a monster or something like that? And suddenly the fear comes in. Right. Yeah. I mean, I've watched my my son busted enough times and slippery rocks. And all that this makes instance since to me, However, I never made up a monster. Okay. This next one comes from our listener Kenna Kenner writes, dear Jo and Robert I just relisted to your Jenny green teeth episode. And when you mentioned that duck weed itself was considered to be the monster in some regions. I had to write in I majored in environmental science in college. Where I learned that duck weed is highly invasive in North America, it's known to choke bodies of water shading out native, vegetation leading deficient invertebrate kills that. Allow other invasive species to move in. It finds it easy to gain a foothold in disturbed and manmade waterways where other species have been removed or haven't yet been introduced. So it can easily over grow and kill off wildlife, even in its native range observing periodic fish or arthropods kills when duck weed became too, overgrown might have encouraged the Jenny green teeth legend and made the water of the moral pits seem more mysteriously deadly with dangers more supernatural and unexplainable than mere drowning. PSI also just listened. To your Cambrian explosion episode from the vault, and I've attached photos of my most recent knitting project, stuffed anomaly, Carris ta this all so good. It's such a cute creature. But I also like that theory about the duck weed, I I hadn't read anything about that. Yeah. That's that's new to me who brought Ginny over. That's the the open question that I have. All right on that note. We're gonna take our first break here. But when we come back, more Halloween listener mail and more Jenny green teeth listener mail. Hey, everybody real estate. Investing is known for a lot of things mainly making a select group of people a lot of money, but being an online cutting edge experience, that's usually not one of its hallmarks. Well, that is no longer. The case fund arise is the future of real estate investing their revolutionary model is transforming the industry. Thanks to software that cuts out costly middleman and old market inefficiencies fund rise delivers the kind of investing power that you usually only see at giant institutions bringing real estate's unique potential for long term growth and cash flow to individual investors getting started as simple unusually takes less than five minutes. When you invest you'll be instantly diversified across dozens of real estate projects each one carefully vetted an actively managed by fund rises team of real estate pros, then you can use their intuitive investor dashboard in real time reporting system to monitor the progress of each property within your portfolio, that's the future of real estate. Investing. So you ready to get started? Visit fund dries dot com slash mind. That's F U N D R. I S E dot com slash mind to have your first three months of fees. Waived again, that's fun dries dot com slash mind. All right. We're back. All right. This one comes to us from Sean, Sean rights. I just finished. Listen to your Jenny green teeth episode. Excellent episode, although in from England, I only ever heard of Grigny lo thanks to Harry Potter and other fairy tales and legends were never related to me growing up perhaps because I grew up in the southeast and not the north well listening. I noticed a few similarities between the legend in England and that of nine zero kid who will in Indonesia where I now live like Jenny green teeth. She has a water spirit who lures people in. However, she primarily works in the c- though, sometimes in rivers interesting her legend is particularly strong in the rough seas of south Java. So you can see how she is used as a precautionary tale the beaches lining, the southern coast attracts surfers nowadays due to their big waves. This coast is also close to the Sandra trench making the south coast vulnerable to Synopsys, what's. Stuck me particularly as the link to the color green. It is said that those wearing green to beaches in the south of Java are more likely to be lured into her traps to join her underwater army this is because green is her sacred color, and no others are allowed to wear it much like the fairies. Wow. I've never heard any of that. Apparently, there's a Wikipedia article about it because they included a link continue. Love the podcast. A hope you find this link is interesting excited. I look forward to more monsters over the next month. We'll hopefully we were able to satisfy in that in that area. Now, I wonder if in this case with the New York Roro kadumi if I'm saying that right is is the green associated with the the monster. Or the goddess or the demon is whatever because of the water instead of being because of the plants. I don't know it it certainly sounds like it's more of a purely like water like and or river spirit as opposed to something that is vegetative in nature. What is it in in folklore with green and evil? It's so strange. I find green the the most positive and wonderful of all the colors. Yeah. This has been kind of a revelation to me it's made me rethink the the green Knight the green man, all these various green entities, especially from from western folklore. You can definitely see it in the green man and the green Knight tradition because I think they're the greens associated with the forest and with nature, which in a way is seen as almost like the enemy of Christendom. If you think of like, a, you know, the the Christian civilized world in in. Medieval England, is is is we're goodness. And order comes from. That's like the town and the the authorities and the church and all that and then outside of that you have the wilderness, which is the place of chaos and eve. Evil. And that's why it's green that that sort of makes sense. I think yeah. I mean, this this bears probably further research like at what point did we decide the green means go because that seems to be one of the most. I mean, it sounds simple. But we see it everywhere like green and red in western culture. Red means stop go back remains. Yes. Go forward. Everything's good. I've mentioned on the podcast before that I've read that that has to be inverted or altered for say Chinese audiences where red is held in such high esteem that the idea of using red to signify in some cases, something negative or or secondary. Just simply doesn't work with with the predominant color theory of the culture. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like green should not mean go. She mean, relax chill out when the light turns green this when you choose. Well, anyway, let's look at this next listener mail from Ross who writes, Hello, Robert. And Joe I found your podcast last October. And you guys are on my regular rotation. I look forward to my listening time every week. I love the Halloween monster specials and enjoying this year series. I'm writing this as I listened to slayers on my lunch break, the monster slaves. Oh, yes, I've been doing some illustrations for web comic series. And you guys have brought up some awesome topics to explore. Anyway, I was so inspired by Jimmy green teeth. When I listened that. I had to do an illustration and wanted to share it with you best regards and thanks for making such an awesome show and Ross cintas this illustration, which I think is fabulous. Great work cross. Yeah. I'm gonna put this on the landing page for this episode at stuff to blow your mind did dot com. Did he gives permission? He's ready. All right. Yeah. Link back, so we'll include a link there. So you can check out some of his other work as well. It's all very impressive. But the the mouth of this Jenny green teeth that he created is just absolutely horrifying. She's got kind of cat. Is very smooth skin big red lips. And instead of hairs is she has just the duck weed. Yeah. It's it's fabulous. Definitely check it out. Now, we heard from a number of different listeners regarding a particular pop culture incarnation of Jenny green teeth. We mentioned the television series the mighty Bouche in that episode. But I mainly talked about the hitter, which is this green character that shows, but there's another creature that shows up a creature called old Gregg. Okay. Yes. Riva movie with old Gregg. Yes years ago. I I was showing the sketch old Gregg he likes Bailey's, right Bailey's. And yeah, he's like an underwater creature that kidnaps one of the characters in the mighty Bouche night. It was an episode that I really loved back in the day. And so a lot of people pointed out, and I I have to say that I intentionally left it out of the episode really because there's an element to the character. Where the character has essentially there's a punch. Line about the care having ambiguous genitalia. Oh, yeah. And I just wasn't sure that that was really appropriate for everybody. Yeah. I give since when I originally. I love the episode when it came out. But since then, I read the book Middlesex. Yeah. Which is excellent the deals with a character who was born with ambiguous genitalia subsequently to. I've just I've I've learned more about it. And I I just didn't want it to be. I didn't I didn't want anybody's enjoyment of the episode to be taken away because they've himselves have have struggled with this. Or if they have children perhaps that have ambiguous genitalia as well. So sorry to be kind of a party pooper on that on that front. No. I totally hear you that's worth mentioning to be clear. I love the mighty Bouche pretty much all the other episodes. I can still go back and appreciate without you know, any qualms. Okay. I've gotta read this next listener mail from Rachel Rachel writes in about Jenny green teeth saying I was just thinking how much Ginny? Green teeth reminds me of pennywise the clown. Of course, I wonder if instead of inhabiting the individual ponder bog. Maybe instead she lives in boggy water systems and can travel through the underground waterways. Also, you mentioned she was often used to warn children away from places or behaviors also Bubba you guys used to this end. I think Bobby guys like a witch in would that be like eastern European tradition Russian? I've been saying it wrong my whole life. I always say, Bobby AGA. Oh that might be right now. I don't know it just rolls off my tongue. But I love the Bobby. I go with her one legged chicken house and flying around in that what does she unlike a the zoo? Broom we'll does she has. I think she has a broom, but she's rides in a like a big bucket of some sort. Okay. May maybe it's for the grinding wheat or something, you know, she's in that Russo Finnish. Jack frost movie, though, on mystery science theater three thousand where they she. She had the chicken house. I believe. Yeah. I know it. Well, I actually watched that episode every thanks giving. Religiously as methinks given thing mushroom. Yes. So good. I I love that. Rachel brought up pennywise, particularly how pennywise has that association with like a sewer drain storm drain situation. We've course have those all over the place who in Atlanta and the whole time that I've had a child every time I am near one of those. I clench my hand his hand just a little harder because they tend to be a sometimes, you know, they're they're more graded and control. But often they're just like a gaping mouth that just seems to want to small swallow children down into their their unknown depths. Who knows how far that thing goes down. Who knows how much water is down. There is just so terrifying. That I wonder to what extent Stephen King kind of maybe intentionally thought of all this when he was coming up with that scene in it. But perhaps it was kind of an accidental incarnation of his own fears regarding his children in storm drains. Oh, yeah. I know I've read somewhere that he part of his idea for the story of it was that he wanted to write sorry sort of like a troll character. Like the troll under the bridge in the three Billy goat gruff. Oh, you know. I wasn't. I I wasn't even thinking about that. But of course, he had the troll under the bridge is essentially Jenny green teeth type monster as well. Like, the the the hazard that lives the Neath bridge. Okay. Well, I think it it's time to move onto similar Sner mail. We got about the episode. We did on masks the killer's mask in reality. And in fiction with the mask represents why we have these masked killers even in horror fiction where like the killer's identity is not particularly a secret or anything to be revealed. And so we heard from several listeners about this. Robert, you wanna read one sure we have a big win here from Jim Jim who frequently writes into the show. Jim says Robert Joe your mass villain episode. Got me thinking about original mask in cinema. I thought of several examples WTI Griffith's the birth of a nation from nineteen fifteen features masks masked members of the KKK, although they were portrayed as heroes in this film. And historically masked so weird that the KKK I mean, obviously, this evil terrorist organization. They think they're the good guys. But they really dress like bad guys yet. It's like, they're not even they're just like, let's look like an evil cult evil buffoons, basically. And of course, this this picture was significant in that it helped revive, unfortunately, klu Klux Klan activities in the United States Jim continues. I don't know if it's the first mask reveal, but the phantom of the opera from nineteen twenty five with lawn Cheney the man of a thousand faces is the first one that comes to mind, the unmasking occurs at forty five seconds in this short clip, and he gives a short clip and indeed this, wow. A really I mean even today watching this unmasking scene, it's pretty alarming. Even if you haven't seen the film in full you've probably seen this clip before it's the original hockey mask off Jason scene. Yeah. Indeed. It's I think that isn't important to keep in mind when we're trying to figure out what Jason's unmasking is about like, we have here is here is this important her horrifying moment in horror film history. That undoubtedly is having some some influence over the way these other films are paste out we'll part of the role. It seems split in that phantom of the opera scene is that it enrages him because he he doesn't want to be revealed. And when she sees his face, he's she's horrified Bill. So he's enraged, right? Jim continues. Finally, there's a version of Robert's execution reality show on TV a few years ago. Did I propose an execution reality show? I think maybe you did. Yes. Something like that would function as a TV version of the guillotine public executions or something. Interesting. Oh, yeah. I think I did do that. Because we also brought up how Paris Hilton died and then wax harm move blacks few who which one it was there's so many wax films. Hartman of wax, something like that. It continues. It was a summer replacement named who done it the show had about ten contestants living in a mansion. With a spooky Butler is the host in the first episode on all of the contestants were checking out their new rooms one of them is quote unquote, killed the murderer left a message to and then he gives some bullet points about how this went down. Contestants will search for clues in the mansion in the grounds. These will lead to clues about the murder in. There are more clues than time for one person to find them all so you probably went to work in teams. And at the end of each show each of you will in individually, go to the library and present your theory on the crime in the murder. The contestant who gets the fewest facts. Correct becomes the next victim will be killed in the end of the show. And then the next show starts with the investigation. That victim you won't know who got it until you come down for breakfast, new realize who's missing it's kind of like a game of where wolf I guess to some extent. Okay. The next show starts with the investigation of that victim, and you already know the murders since I'm one of you. But I'm keeping up. Secret. And basically this keeps going on until he says, quote, the last detective gets the prize, which I think was fifty thousand dollars maybe one hundred thousand dollars, wait. So this would be like if a police departments around the country had like a system where if a detective fails to solve a murder they get killed. I guess high stakes. He points out that they created a crime scene for each victim. ABC put out a press release that they really weren't killing people in. There was a mass killer among the group, but it was the the mask of anonymity. Okay. Then they brought back. The dead victim for the victims for the finance and Allie and they were in their death apparel. Zombie like hanging out handing out clues to the finalists. So this sounds like a fun show. I don't know why it just completely evaporated. You can only make it better by making it also rockabilly musical. Jim shared a little bit more about the the show, which which very interesting, I'm gonna look it up presumably on YouTube. I'm assuming it's not what while widely available. But he he kept it up. I saying quote there was never a second season, which disappointed me it was a fun summer replacement. It was a survivor like reality show in no one had to eat anything Grose. It was based upon finding and understanding clues. They only had to be willing to to to fake their own deaths. When eliminated. They'll bring back a revival in that flicks. There'll be there'll be a season two. I feel like the concept sounds pretty solid. I I like having not seen it myself. I don't know how the execution no pun intended came out. But it sounds fun. Okay. This next mail comes from our listener Mandy also about the killer's mask episode. And there was a part in that that episode where I mentioned that it had never really made sense to me the scene in the original Halloween. Robert, you remember this where for a moment. Jamie Lee Curtis pulls off Michael Myers mask. And there's just nothing to like he just looks like a guy. Yeah. He's just some guy and then he puts the mask back on. And then it's you know, and then the scene continues. But I was always like why did that happen? I don't understand what the point was though, I loved the movie I'm not ragging on it. Mandy writes in about that she says, hey, y'all just finished listening to the podcast about masks in horror films. You said the scene in the original Halloween were Michael Myers mask comes off doesn't make sense to you. Maybe this will help the. Documentary halloween. The inside story points out that Michael Myers is supposed to be. And this is me semi paraphrasing a devil with the face of an angel. So the way I see that scene is like this. He's demasked, but unlike so many other horror movie killers, we see that he's not a horrible looking creature or disfigured. Man. He looks just like a normal, and frankly, handsome young, man. But as Dr Loomis, of course, that's Donald Pleasants says Michael Myers has black eyes and there's nothing behind them. So he's perhaps the most frightening type of killer. The one who outwardly looks like anything, but a grotesque monster. But who Solis inside which is more horrifying than the worst? External disfigurement hope that helps I'm actually the kind of person who can't watch gory horror films because they scare me and gross me out. But Halloween is a favourite film of mine to me, the less blood and gore, there isn't a scary movie. The more terrifying it is bird happy early Halloween. Well that was before Halloween. Thank you. So. Much Mandy, the I guess that's an interesting insight. I don't recall him looking amazingly handsome. He just looks like a guy, but well, you know, with with with budget concerns, you can only get so handsome an actor in there. They couldn't get David Hasselhoff into the Kirk. So. Or maybe they they did they try to different ways. And they just found that some standards were just distracting, Lee handsome. I don't know a devil with the face of a guy. Now, Robert Jeff wrote to us in response to the killer's mask episode with something about a Cobra commander face. Did you have some anecdote in the episode about that? Oh, yes. I think I mentioned that I knew somebody in high school who had a cover commander action figure like the big kind. And that's like the bad guy in GI, Joe. Cobra commander always wear this cool mirror mask or sometimes it was like a cloth essentially a bag that he for his head. And I remarked that I I knew somebody who had an action figure in the mask apparently came off. But he never opened the box to see what it was like what what was the big reveal what it was this action figures face, and Jeff says, hey, guys, you may have already been in the light and regarding this incredibly import. Piece of trivia, I had a Cobra commander with the removable hood. And the big reveal. He had a half mask wrap type thing molded into his face. Oh, also dark hair in a molded ponytail to buy can be so much dancing within the tensions of anticipation and disappointment. I have recovered over time. In other words, you took the mask off, and it was just a molded secondary mascot. He essentially looked like a dentist with a ponytail get out of here. That's unfortunate. I I got a similar story. Do you? Remember the TV show inspector gadget? Yes. Do you? Remember the villain of that show? Doctor claw. Yes. Kind of a blow field riff where he had cairn hand. All you ever saw was his cat and his his like iron gauntlet hand. And so you never saw his face. You always had to imagine. What it looked like? But then at some point I saw on the internet. They made an action figure of him. So it and the action figure was not just like a chair with a hand. And nothing else. It was this whole guy. And so they're like, well, let's just make up what his face looks like. And he just looked like I don't remember some kind of it was incredibly disappointing reminds me of the one slur in Dr Seuss's the Laura acts in the original book. And then in the old classic cartoon version of it. All you have received the one slur is is peering out through something. Right. And of course, his hands. And I understand they may recently made a big computer animated version of it where you. The the one slur dancing around fully revealed perhaps it's necessary for. Adapting a short children's book into a full length motion picture, but it seemed kind of a shame keep some of the mystery alive. Right. Totally. I I am against the face reveal on those things such a bummer. All right. So we got one piece of mail on volt episode that ran in October, which was our episode. I think I recorded last year called the first monster where we tried to talk about like, the earliest signs of of monsters in in archaeology, and then where the idea of monsters I came from. And so we're listener Chris writes in to say Hello in your episode on the first monster, which I'm noticing came out a year ago. So you may have already talked about this. There was one criticism. I'm surprised you didn't address regarding the idea that humans instinctively fierce certain animals. I've recently found myself incredibly skeptical of evolutionary psychology in regards to humans. I think the idea that humans instinctually have certain behaviors that helped hunter-gatherers survive is complicated. By the fact that humans show. An incredible ability to learn new behaviors an example, I keep coming back to is how humans are one of the only animals that don't instinctively know how to swim the reason for this. It seems to me is that since a human can just learn how to swim having that instinct offered little to no reproductive advantage for this reason, I think people might be too quick to offer evolutionary reasons for modern day human behavior, a study showing that most people sort trail mix into its component parts might conclude that this behavior allowed one hundred gatherers to determine the flavor and effects of different parts of a plant while study showing that most people eat trail mix as is might conclude that this allowed hunter-gatherers to gain vitamins from all parts of a plant rather than just the tastiest keep up the good work. Chris wait who eat snack mix like that weight picks the to depict the parts you just toss in it is it is a taste sensation. It is calibrated. Yeah. I would no more eat my snack mix piece by piece than I would dissect a piece of. Sushi that oh, man if you've ever seen somebody do that though, I have well, I mean I've seen my child. Do it. Don't do it. That is satanic. I mean in I'd say that I I my my my kid doesn't really do that anymore. But like early on when he was like, what is this? I'm gonna take it apart. Now, he understands that. Yes. It's taste sensation. You take it all and it once and you appreciate the explosion of flavor. And and texture I mean, that's the whole experience. I mean, it reminds me of something that came up in an episode of invention that we recorded regarding chopsticks right in about how it is is highly frowned upon to route around in your bowl and pick out like the choice bits of protein. I digging your grave. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Don't don't be rude. Like that just just eat just eat if it's good food should already be composed. Well, and you can just eat it. Now, if it is bad food or parts of it are bad certainly than all rules are off. Anyway, about the point Chris makes about evolution psychology. I entirely agree. I I love Evelyn psychology. And I think every psychology is really interesting ground. But I think we should always be very conscious of its limits. Right. I mean, like I often see people playing around in evolutionary psychology where you say like I've come up with a scientifically plausible story for how our evolutionary heritage led to this feature of human culture, human psychology or something like that. And I don't think that we should rule out hypotheses like that. I mean, they're interesting to to play with and I think you can bring evidence for and against them. And that's all good stuff. But people sometimes jump from. I've come up with the scientifically plausible story too. I have discovered the reason, you know, they've gone from. I have a pretty good hypothesis that seems supported by the evidence to I have a proven theory, and you don't have a proven theory a lot of times. I mean, you evolutionary psychology is inherently limited in a lot of ways because you can't go back and rewind the tape. You can just keep looking for new bits of evidence to try to beef up your hypothesis. So I'm very pro evolutionary psychology as long as you always remember to be extremely conscious about what the limits are and cautious about them. Indeed, one that note, we're going to take one more break, and then we'll be right back. Hey, folks, these days, you can get practically everything on demand like our podcast, you listen when you want when it's convenient for you. So why are you still taking trips to the post office to mail, letters and packages when you can get posted on demand with stamps dot com with stamps dot com. 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Inter mind blown and start mailing things. All right. We're back, and let's just go ahead and sound the A-List alarm because. Because the remainder of this episode is going to contain listener mail related to our episode. All hail, the great bacilus, or perhaps, it was just called the great bass bacilus, but you get the idea this involves the idea of information hazards, and we acknowledge that well, some people don't want to to know about this. And we should at least give you the the option to remain free of shackles. Yes now that being said that's just a courtesy. I don't think this idea is actually dangerous. But if you're worried about an idea that somebody out there thinks might be dangerous. This is the time to tune out. Right. Yeah. Implicit just adds to the mystique like, oh, they're they're given the option of not listening to it. Oh, it must be juicy pretty fun. That was a very fun episode. Yeah. And a lot of people really got it. I think it the appropriate spirit of the thing. Okay. So do you want to read this first message from our listener, Matt we'll do it Carney's bringing it over here. Hey, guys. I just finished your episode on information hazards, you mentioned that you couldn't think of an actual example of true information that could cause harm, but as a public health scientists this is a well-known problem. Some research research has shown that circumcision might be slightly effective at preventing transmission of some S T is that's a sexually transmitted infections. However, the effect is real is pretty small if hearing this causes men who are circumcised to forgo condoms, which are highly effective than this true information has harmed them. Oh, yeah. Thanks love the show, and especially your October episodes. Yeah. This is a really good point. I so we were talking in the road about the idea of information hazard, like something that is a true piece of knowledge. But that you wouldn't want to spread because it would only hurt people by spreading it. Yeah. I mean, it gets into the basic idea a little bit of knowledge of his can be a dangerous thing. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't think of an example on the spot on the road. But I think this. Is a great example. In fact, I can think of other examples now that Matt has brought this up when it comes to public health. One would be say about spreading the idea of possible damaging side effects of vaccines. So definitely where like with any medication. There is going to be some incidents of side effects. So you might say that here's a vaccine for a disease that you really should get because without this vaccine, you're putting yourself much greater risk. You know, you're putting public health at greater risk. But there's some extremely tiny percentage. Chance of some kind of complication obviously, you want people to be informed about what the possible side effects of any medication. They get are. But what if knowing about this incredibly unlikely possibility discourages people from getting a vaccine that they really need that would definitely be harmful. Yeah. So I think that could go in in that category as well. Obviously if people were accurately doing the the the risk benefit analysis. They would say, yeah. Of course, I need to get the vaccine. In. But maybe just the idea of some incredibly unlikely negative complication from a vaccine would be so vivid in their mind that it would prevent them from getting the vaccine because the disease that the vaccine protects them from is just not as vivid and example. Yeah, another example that possible example that comes to mind is for instance, if you pick up the idea that, hey, some scientists argue that red wine has has health has a health benefit. Oh, yeah. If you take that as a reason, then to drink three bottles of line yourself every evening, then I think it's pretty safe to say you're taking things a little bit too far got two bottles. K cabinet too. But that's not medical advice. Don't do that. But, but certainly this is something where you could take a nugget of truth or at least. I mean, you can say yes, some scientists have presented information and findings that back up the idea that there are health benefits to say red wine or dark chocolate you name it. Obviously, these these are these are studies that make headlines all the time. But he just take that then as an excuse to just fully indulge yourself in red wine in dark chocolate. Yeah. To the point that it harms you then. Yeah. Then that is not good. Yeah. That's a really good point. Okay. You're ready for the next one. Let's do it. Okay. Our listener Jose writes to us about the basil. Est. Episode Jose writes, hi, guys. Greetings from Mexico. I've been a longtime listener, and I have to say I love the show keep it up. And in hearing your last episode, I decided to send my first listener mail sorry in advance for sub optimal English. I think your English is great Jose way better than most bench. To the point though. I don't agree with the premise of the superior future. Punitive a overlord good. Neither do I I have to say I found a somewhat possible reason for it to follow through with its hypothetical threat, assuming it's not quite a godlike being maybe it's doing so to incite fear on the future people as a way to incentivize the creation of its superior future. Overlord I realized it's a cyclic way of thinking, but I just wanted to share. Thanks a lot and keep up the good job Jose. I think that's an interesting idea. So this is like some very powerful intermediate AI needs help achieving and even higher state of itself. So it's not retroactive a causal blackmail, but it would just be punishing people for normal future facing blackmail this. So there's kind of an odd the great and powerful five here where it makes sense to make your future possible, self all the. More fearsome. So you can carry out your objectives. Yeah. I mean, I think this would just be like standard kind of Machiavelli and tactics. The this is not involving any kind of a causal backward. Thinking decision theory. This is just well I wanna scare people to help me now in favor of the current future. So so, yeah, I'll just intimidate them. Based on what they've already done in the past motivate people now to do more in the future. If what I just said make sense. I just use future a lot. I remain somewhat sceptical of the superhuman a I and even then the idea that it would use blackmail in order to achieve a greater good. Ultimately seems like kind of like failure of ethics on the machines party. I don't think that really would count as a greater good. All right. Here's another one from Chad. Chad writes in I love these types of episodes on inevitable possibility of Rokos bacilus tsk occurred to me if the supreme AI has unlimited power within the realm of physics than what if the I also. Discovers how to make time travel possible that thought hazard of our soul trapped in tortured in a digital hell increases to different risk that we could be plucked quote unquote out of time by the I and actually tortured in a future time just food for thought chat. I think this is yet more fuel on the fire of the case against time travel. Right. Yeah. If you take as a possibility that you could create a superhuman AI with God like powers that can do pretty much anything physically possible. And it and anything physically possible includes backward time travel. Why haven't we encountered backward? Time travel yet. We'll maybe it's the free Jack model of time travel. Can they can only pluck Emilio Estevez out of the past? Is he has just been in a fatal car accident kind of a loophole. Now, I never saw free Jack. But is that the one with Mick Jagger in it? Oh, it has an all star cast Anthony Hopkins. Anthony Hopkins Emilio Estevez, Mick Jagger. I don't remember who else, but I was super excited when it came out. I was sick. I would call the the local theater and beg them to please free. Jack. It's a flawed film. But, but I have a warm place in my heart for it is the title of jumping Jack flash thing or are they going for that? I don't remember that at all how the title came about. But the did have that basic idea that you could pluck people from the past but only in limited scenarios, and I think there's a recent television series. I didn't watch it. But my wife did where people are kind of plucked out of time to serve on some sort of you know, squad that does good time cop scenario, but not time cop. Oh, man. And I do not know the name of the series. But I think it had Rob Lowe in it, perhaps some of our listeners have viewed it. All right. This one last piece of mail for today comes from our listener Josh Josh writing in response to the great basil. Skep- aside says, hey, guys, I I just wanted to say I've been listening for a long time in love the show. So one of the podcasts I look forward to the most and keeps me entertained it works. So keep up the good work. Thank you. Josh now too. I am writing bear. With me is I need to do a little explain. Meaning I was listening to your episode on Rokos bacilus can the part about religion and heaven slash hell at cetera. Got me thinking, I was raised in a faith which I knew longer believe in Jehovah's Witness. They believed that there is no hell there is just heaven and paradise earth for the faithful of mankind to live on for eternity. Only a small number of mankind's faithful one hundred and forty four thousand will go to heaven and act as kings and judges for mankind because they're they are the only ones who really have experience of living on earth in sin yet still remaining faithful the unfaithful will be gone. They won't be punished for eternity. They will just no longer exist. Everyone who has already died has already paid for their sins with death, and we'll be resurrected after Armageddon to live on a paradise earth along with the faithful that survive Armageddon. There is more to it than that. But I won't go into it as it's not really relevant to my thought my point is that Armageddon itself, according to their beliefs could be classified as a biblical information hazard. According to the new world translation of the bible. The translation Jehovah's Witnesses used which includes the old and New Testament Armageddon will only a arrive once every living person on earth has been told the truth of the scriptures. So that nobody can say, well, I didn't know it's not fair for me to be unexhausted. That's not a word is it because nobody gave me a chance to believe. This is why Jehovah's Witnesses go from door to door talking to people and trying to make others believe what they do. The thought came to me when listening to this podcast that according to their beliefs. You could technically postpone Armageddon by keeping one person a small community might be better completely separate from someone who could talk to them about these beliefs. The information about their beliefs. If you believe what they do is now an information hazard because as soon as the last person that doesn't know about their beliefs receives that information that will trigger Armageddon. I just thought it was interesting and wanted to share such a large biblical event in this. Belief system isn't information has. Sred? It's not something. I personally believe in anyone who does believe this wouldn't really want to stop Armageddon in such a way, but still works as an information hazard. Anyway, that's all from me. Cheers. Josh. Oh, though. That's very interesting. I have to admit I don't I don't know much about the belief system of the Jovis witnesses. But this this twist on the alarm again thing, I think that is a pretty strong case for for a in an information hazard, if you buy into the notion that once everybody has been informed than Armageddon may commence. Yeah. Admit I don't know a lot about Jehovah's Witness theology. Either though, I have had some very wonderful conversations with Jove as witnesses who came to my house. Oh, yeah. They generally just give me the material and move on. Maybe I looked distracted or something. I don't know. Oh, yeah. I mean one day I happened to have time and the guy started by asking me questions about I think if I believed in evolution or something. And so I was like well, yeah. And then we just talked about it for a long time. It was very nice though. He he was a sweet guy. No coup. I am always open to polite conversation about ideas. But there's another thing about Josh's emailed that I think is always interesting, which is like when people start. I mean, we talked about this in the episode, and it comes through and things like PASCAL wager and stuff, but when people start applying like very kind of kind of like cold direct decision theory to theological principles like if you accept the theological principles as real. But then you just start saying, okay. How do you optimize for best theological outcomes? I it seems like religions don't tend to encourage that type of decision making on the basis of theological principles. It's really more just kind of like well here the dogmas, and you should, you know, follow certain rules. But when people start trying to like us decision theory to optimize what to do based on the theological principles. It all it always comes off as very like. No, no, no. That's not how you're supposed to think about this. Yeah. I have to say, I tend to prefer it. When the the key argument of of religion is, hey, look how we can improve your life or the lives of others on earth. You know, here the net positives of the belief in the real world as opposed to. Hey, we have to reduce the human population to a certain number. So that the no God can return, and that's just a little, you know, we've got to get everything just right for Armageddon. And that's just not a great sell for me person. We're not saying that's what the job is witnesses. But the, you know, when it's when it's more based in some specific scheme for the afterlife, right? Yeah. I I just don't personally see the appeal as much it can sometimes feel kind of like one of those SCI fi movies where you have to like trigger the machine and just the certain ways we flipped the big switch, and then you hit. The command console earth has performed an illegal operation, and we'll be shutdown. Yeah. I mean, I still enjoy hearing about all these different belief systems. And I also have to acknowledge that you know, certainly. Some of those belief systems out there that are more afterlife Centric, and maybe harsher in their theology. We do have to note that a lot of times those religions are created by indoor marketed to individuals who are living a closer to the age in the here. And now, and therefore I have to acknowledge that I I have a certain amount of privilege in not being in not being a part of the target audience for those types of the allergies. Well, yeah. And you know, it's sometimes hard to remember that even within a religion that has particular dogmas. There's actually a lot of diversity of belief. Usually what people privately believe versus what their church teaches. Our remember growing up in Tennessee. There were people who belong to churches that said, you know, you can't drink alcohol, but they didn't know that. Wait. My religion says I can't have beer I had no idea in dated. It's a big tent for sure. And sometimes there's drinking in that tent. Alright. So there you have it a part one of our Halloween hangover listener mail extravaganza. That's it for the bass A-List content. We'll cut that off. But when we come back in the next episode, we have so much more October listener mail to get through so many wonderful thoughts about various monsters and evils and threats and curses and even force the deadly Merck would squirrel huge. Thanks as always to our wonderful, audio producers, Alex Williams and Tari Harrison, if you would like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other to suggest to topic for the future or just to say. Hi, let us know where you listen from how you found how you found out about the show all that kind of stuff. You can Email us at blow the mind how stuff works dot com. And bathrooms of other topics. Visit how stuff works dot com. When you're hiring. You don't wanna waste time. You want an efficient way to get to your shortlist of qualified candidates. That's why you need indeed dot com used by over three million businesses post a job in minutes, set up screener questions than zero in on qualified candidates using intuitive online dashboard, and when you need to hire fast, accelerate your results with sponsor jobs. New users can try for free at indeed dot com slash stuff. That's indeed dot com slash stuff. Terms, conditions, and quality standards apply.
Ep. 52 "Unexpected PIVOTS in Leadership with Ginny Hegarty, SPHR"
"The welcome to nobody told me that your source for candidate business talk and stories. Your host is speaker and author. Theresa Duncan sit back buckle up and hang on we are back with another episode of. Nobody told me that I am excited to have one of my good friends on here. Ginny Hegarty Jenny. How are you doing great? Doing Great Ginny is one of the consultants out there who are just exceptional at leading employees and teams doctors through change. And you know. It's funny years ago when I met Jenny. She was just like this. Hr Expert that. I always watch and she. She had an article in. I think DP our dental products reporter that one of the big dental magazines you had a regular article for a long time and so I would read her and I was like wow amazing and then when I got to meet her in person she couldn't have been more down to Earth than anybody else so I don't think I don't think I've ever told Jimmy that but I was like. Oh my God negative and now I can count her as one of my very very dear friends. She's in the mastermind with me. And Rita's Samora and we meet on a regular basis and talk about our businesses. And I appreciate that time to do that because it. Lets US relax? I know many of our office managers that listen and many of our doctors are in study clubs like that and that is so valuable so I just wanted to bring on somebody from my inner circle who I trust and who I know gives exceptional advice because I think in this time of Kobe and pandemics and stuff that we only watched movies and now it's here in our lives. I wanted to have a voice of reason. Not just for me. Because she's totally my voice of reason but for you all because she comes from a different point of view and that she's very good at looking at a problem breaking it down and then calmly giving you the steps to get yourself out of whatever mess that you're in and I'm a good friend of hers so you know I'm in a lot of messes. And so she talked me off the Ledge on time so so so ginny first of all. How are you handling being home and just all of this? How are you handling it? Well you know I think like everybody else is all a work in progress right But I am extremely blessed. I'm safe I'm comfortable and happy you know Newly married that helps. My kids are safe. That's my family's all see that's and I love being able to check in whether it's in person not in person anymore right Looking at each other on a screen. But I love being able to check in with all of my friends and colleagues and know that there will too you know and for the ones who are having some struggles to be able to be there for them. Hold them in my thoughts and prayers It's it's something none of us have ever been through before and yet I think when we realize we've all been through crisis. We've all been there for people. We love right so we just need to go back to that mindset no skills and and that helps certainly helps the the tools and the strategies are similar is just that the the paint on the walls different. We and I think a Lotta Times what I'm hearing and getting calls and reading on facebook. I'm hearing that everybody's very scared right now because this is so unprecedented we've been dealt with with so many changes already. Nobody knows the right answer to so many things But in the end it is changed management at its core. And that's why I wanted to have you on because you are you know. That's you coach. So many people including myself. I don't know about you but I went through a period where I felt like I was grieving. I mean it really is. It felt like a real grieving process. Seen I was scared I was angry. I was confused. I mean all of that. Is that part of your idea of change management. Well I think it's very natural and I think many of us will admit to the same thing it felt and dozen in some way still feel very heavy right. Because so much is unknown because it's unraveling because almost every action we naturally take has to be questioned now. Are we doing the best we can to protect ourselves to protect our loved ones? The things we naturally do. We can't just naturally do anymore right so in that spirit Yes I think. We're all going through a process of figuring out what's the best approach here for me I think one of the best things that we can do is to decide how we're GONNA take all the information so are we. Are we learning and growing or are we just consuming? Because I think when it all I started happening. Part of what led to the heavy and decree feeling was the twenty four seven news cycle of all these things that are happening and all the things that are out of our control and you can find yourself just feeling like what's the next hit of news. I'm looking for you know and and you're just consuming everything that you can get. I think when for me to be able to take a deep breath and say okay. Am I listening to facts? Were opinions and if it's opinions. I respect them right. Now they're unfounded. None of us know the answer right so for us to realize there's a lot of uncertainty here so we need to go back to what we know to be true right and what we know to be true is what can we bring it to the situation to help. So if I'm trying to learn and grow I'm GonNa look at the news differently. I'm going to watch my social media. Feeds differently now as things are happening within dentistry. There are a lot of rumors that are getting started. And it's well intentioned. I don't think anybody is sitting at home. Saying what can I add to the mix here that will make people feel worse course? They're not doing now but what's happening is we're consumers of news than we get it and we react. Were just sponges right instead. If critical thinking critical skills judgment is what really helps us to be leaders and influencers right and I think the biggest role that we can have right now. Those of us who who enjoy that leadership role in being able to help and I think on a certain level. That's everybody right is how can we be a role model? Where people requires us to say. Okay I'm going to be a learner. I'm going to move forward based on things I know to be true. GonNa stay focused. I see what you mean. Because you're you're saying you know ABS watch what you absorb take it with a grain of salt and do your own critical thinking on that so as an industry. It's it's interesting because everybody is looking up to the ADA for all of the answers and the ADA's looking up to the government and to the legislation for the answers and everybody wants something concrete and we're just not at that point yet so people are excuse me upset at the Ada. Then they go to facebook and it kind of builds right then. People are upset at all of the weird. Cpa advice that they're getting because it's been different. I mean I don't think any. Cpa's out there giving bad advice like you said it just changes. I mean Gosh every like every day there's a new ruling and we have to interpret that right so I think it's natural to have this frustration that you want to trust people but you know tomorrow that expert might be saying something completely different. Which is what's been happening on the HR front. I mean I feel for all of the. Hr companies out there who are trying to stay on top of this on a regular basis. Let's bring it down to practice so as a doctor or a manager being the team leader. Is it important to take all that information and distill it to the practice even though it's unknown like almost a hey heads up this is what's going on or would you rather would you rather wait until you know something concrete? I mean how how much contact is too much contact. How much updating too much updating good question because as you know with the The speed at rich information is coming out. You could be constantly doing that right. A constantly updating people but I think the biggest thing that leaders can bring is a sense of order in chrome so things I have been on webcasts where people are talking and you can tell. They have something in their ear. And they're saying wait a minute. We just got an update. This Blewitt said two minutes ago. Never mind that I think we we do have to realize this is a work in progress right so the biggest thing is when this is all said and done. It's about people. How are we supporting the people we care about the people we love right and I would like people to be thinking because this this helps me lead my focus? What do you want to be your lasting impact? You know we all know the famous quote of. It's not what you say or do tell you make people feel. How will your people closest in your life feel Rene look back at what You provided? What your role in it was and I think that's an affirmative question for our teams and our doctors right. When it's all said and done we will all get back to work. We might not all be in the same place. They're doing the same thing but we will get back to a productive likely will get back to making a living but I think if we look back on the difficult things in our lives. We've office difficulties. We've all had moments where there was great grief that came upon us and we worked through it but we also had some very sweet moments sweet memories from those difficult times. Those are the things that fill up our hearts you know and in the course of lost we all feared loss loss on many different rebels right now but we also are humans and if we can be thinking what's the lasting impact. What am I want people to remember about? How read through this. Can I leave the situation? Whatever it is today better than the way I found it and I think giving people hope is what does when the officers get back together. Say there's no staffing changes in the same office same team. They've managed to weather the storm. That team is not the same at so. Is that something? A leader needs to acknowledge in the beginning. Because I would think the team's GonNa come back with a whole different set of concerns. You know whether it's infection control weather. It's is my job safe. I mean I just don't think the teams that left enclosed. Their doors are the same mentally as the ones that are going to come back. How am I supposed to broach the subject? And How am I supposed to? I guess allay their fears on on that type of that type of thinking. I mean it's it's scary through. I think one of the main things that you can do is not wait until that time we don't know. Is that going to be may June July. We don't know when that's going to be but if we care about people we have to do two things. We have to do everything we can to protect them. And then we have to stay connected. And that's something that's interesting because the protect part is we follow our our leaders who are national leaders. Who were telling us that. We need to flatten occur. We need to social distancing. Stay at home and you know not stay involved in our normal routines and we have to do that to flatten the curve of the pandemic We can't do that if we want to. Continue with the same kind of energy and vitality in our businesses in our personal lives so we just have to find new ways to connect. So if your team isn't together now if you're not a skeleton crew touching base every day right still stay in touch do zoom call just to say hey. How's everybody doing how kids you know how pets doing house? You know how your parents you know how you coping with this. You know there are things that you know about your team that you can just have personal conversations about what's the latest thing you baked. You know I need some recipes. Or whatever's going on there are ways that you can stay connected with people and I think that's you know some people are starting to say. Don't call it Social Distancing Cohen physical distancing be in the same place. But we can. I mean you and I are looking at each other right now. Because that that I'd face to face mix the different. I watch on my social media feed. I see the photos of different practices. That have all their team members up on. Zun Calls in. They're seen each other in connecting my sister over the weekend. She has four children who live in different states and they had all of them up on the screen and so is the four families and her and they were actually playing games. You know like one person had to control on the board and they were moving everybody and so they just. They had the same kind of family reunion. They would have had in person to do it that way. So I think if we brainstorm what are some of the ways that we can stay in touch just on a human level you know just on a personal level because we care about them. What about the one team member? That hasn't responded to anything. What is the concern with that team member? When you're not connected you can't help in any way right. If you have reached out and called I think calling is much better than texting right now. Or E mailing. Think if you can even just say. Let's get a call to gather and everybody jumped on now. You may do that via text or email but I think that normal circumstances our intentions can be misunderstood in a text or email right. We all know that their attorney people read at like. That's not what I meant. So if we can try to get people into a facetime or a zoom caller google hangout or something where we can see each other. That's great but the person who doesn't ever come to that or respond to that I pick up the phone and call them. Just say hey check in concerned about you. WanNa make sure. You're okay anything I can do to help. And that's a little scary for doctors leaders right now because we're in a tough situation and we have to bring a great deal of compassion to that situation though. I guess whomever is the person in the office that would normally have done. That should do that like if your doctor pretty much delegated everything to the manager. Perhaps a manager should do that but I also think as a business owner employees anymore but I would certainly have wanted to reach out just so I know what's going on? I don't think dentists should go well. You know I'm not good at that kind of stuff. I think this is the time to grow a little bit and make that effort. I think that's what's GonNa be remembered in the long run. I have my own idea. But what do you think is the main reason why a dentist would not want to reach out personally? I think the uncomfortable question is going to come up which is When are we reopening because then that comes up with the dentist is going to want to reopen? As soon as they can. The team members right now are scared and infection. Control is paramount. I know a lot of assistance are concerned with that. So the uncomfortable question of when do we go back to work and do I have to come back at that time? There's a whole bunch of unemployment concerns with that too. We can talk about that later but also there's a lot of dentists who are aware that they don't connect on a regular basis with their employees. I mean if it's a four person office of course they do but you know if it's a it's a twenty up practice. You probably aren't connecting with them on a regular basis and you feel like you don't know them so all of a sudden you're calling them so I think dentists are kind of very self conscious about that like she's going to wonder why I'm calling her. Well know that this is when you should collar so I. I feel like the uncomfortable. Conversations are what's keeping the conversations from happening the only way to get through. That is to do it if you are thinking. What's my lasting impact? You can look at it from a couple of perspective. Do I just want to be a good human being here? I care about this person right. They work side by side with me. Even if it's a two thousand eighteen practice or forty team practice that I work with many of those. That are very tight and they they all care about each other and love each other right and they stay on top of things so you wanNA connect from human level but if you beyond a major concern in my heart. Goes OUT TO DENTISTS FOR THIS. That they have is protecting the viability of their practice. Right so how can I be sure that we can all be each of us is when we're that team member is responsible for our own family right and that's very gary when the income is gone in the security has gone but I would say put yourself in the shoes of the dentist owner right now and if there are twenty people in that team is disappointing at least twenty one families right not the pressure that they must be feeling in terms of every decision? I make here is going to have an effect that reverberates right and so they want to do the best they can so our natural tendency the way our brains work is that when we get scared when we find ourselves in crisis we protect we immediately narrow our focus to me myself. I family everything rick here. We only see what's right in front of us and that's what we're trying to protect right. That's how we survive right. So that is the first thing we do when the dentists does that. Their sphere of influence is bigger. So what they're trying to manage is bigger right so they have to make a decision that's going to have the best impact on everyone. That doesn't mean it's going to be easy for any right and that's that's really hard so I think our dentists going into this thinking cam I reach out are afraid of some of that pushback. Afraid they're not gonNA have the answers but at the same time as human beings we WANNA take care of people and the best thing we can do on both levels whether just the as a human or as a business owner is to reach care about the people that were were with and care about them as a person not just as a member of the team. I think it might help our dentists to realize you don't have to have the answers. You can't have the answers right now. The only answer is we'll come back when we know it is safe and that I can take care of all of you and our patients in the meantime there is a safety net. Here you know so if you in the unemployment system you know it's not everything you wanted to be but it's a safety net right and I think we're thinking as a an employee heart of what I started to hear was well if my dentist is going to ask me what do I need. I'm going to say Michael paycheck and the reality is yes you do and so did the dentist here she right. Everybody would like to have that but given that we're in this situation here. I think we have to look to say you. Don't have to have the answer you. You don't have to even feel responsible. You didn't create the virus. You didn't make the situation and you're doing the best. You can to help as many people as you can right so I think to be able to reach out on a personal level and just check in. Some people may not be ready for that so we have to respect that and some people are going to vent and we have to respect that too as leaders we can rise above that and realize. I'm going to give them their space and I'm going to show compassion here if it makes them feel better to be able to rent than go right ahead. That's why I'm here right. And then we offer whatever help we can but I'm going to say have a little bit of distance there in that. Don't take it personally. Because this is their reaction in May their emotion. It's real right so but you just have to come from a place where you know. You've made these decisions very deliberately and were dentist. I think the biggest thing that they to do is go to the experts right. There's a lot of great guideline information. That's out right now. So many people are doing what they can to offer guidance right but the best guidances guidance that is particular to your situation. You hear somebody from a different state or a different business model you know and you take that recommendation and put it in place. It might not be the right information for you. So you hear these things in what they do is help you come up with the best questions. So that when you speak to your financial team to your accountants or planners or when you speak to your hr or your attorneys the you know the questions to ask rate which will help you get through the conversation better and easier in some research you can do. Don't try to go it on your own. We know many times. Dentist if it's GonNa be it's up to me right so they they take it all on. But here's a time when you really do need guidance from the expert what the experts are there. I think there's a lot of not quite experts that are out there with a voice and you need to take them with a grain of salt for me. I've I've been listening to the whole conversation on on social media on Lincoln and facebook and all of that blogs and other podcasts. But I'm really looking to the CPA's and the HR companies for the expertise and the Ada of course check their site daily because they're constantly updating at but I can't as much as I respect Dr Smith who I've known for years. I can't take his advice unless I verify it otherwise and it goes back to you know the people who are allowed on social medias you know most of the time they have good stuff to be loud about and it's. I'M THANKFUL FOR THEIR VOICES. But sometimes there's not accurate voices out there in the mix too so I think we have to do our due. Diligence like you said research and that is a critical skill right now that you're going to need Whether you're an employee looking for unemployment information whether you know you're a doctor looking for you know what's coming down the role in at route down the road in infection control. The people in the facebook groups are going to give you input. But they're not gonNA give you the answers really so I think it's important to bet. Oh sources now. I've been checking in with my old clients. You know just wondering how they're doing I'm it's slow going one or two a day. How are your clients handling all of this? Doing the best they can and we have to realize we're doing the best they can. They are looking for some direction. What's the best guy can do here? And I'm I'm sharing with you. The protect protect the people that you care about protect the businesses best. You can go to the expert your research and then have your conversations than I have been referring. People like couple of didn't exceed just from my own perspective. I'm talking to my own accountant. I'm also speaking to my own attorney for anything. I need to have in place but I also have an attorney that I work with. Who has a healthcare practice focused on and when I reached out to him for some of these conversations he said just should share with people that we are not trying to make a profit right now. We're trying to cope the same as everyone else. We're doing all the research we have all the experts out there doing it and there may be a charge but it's going to be very cost effective for people if they need help. And that's what I think. Most people are afraid of my Gosh. I can't get into all these additional costs but when somebody's helping you in that regard to get the best information and that's my guidance to my clients. Don't make a short term decision. Now that's GonNa have long term consequences that you didn't know about right. Impinging Appointments Attorney engaged somebody who knows dentistry. Who can help you with your specifics. And they're going to need to ask you a few questions to understand your specifics and then go from there. Maybe if I could get the names of those people that you are trusting because I think in a lawyer in dentistry is really valuable and I'll put my resources as well on the bottom of the show notes ginny if I could get that information from you afterwards. I'll add that into Because it is important to share the resources and I totally agree about the making a prop accountants have to be paid even consultants. Us offering that kind of information have to be paid but I think across the board people are being very lenient with that and I think because we're all in this together I like to say it's very similar to how the country was post nine eleven but as we go on this is not to minimize nine eleven but there was a finite element to nine eleven. Where you know it happened. And now we're dealing with the aftermath. We're still in the attack. As it were doing air quotes. Were still in the middle of the attack so we really don't know where to go from here so I think having reasonable voices and resources is half the battle because you know at least who to go to when you do need to go to them that I think that's a source of comfort for me you know having those people and you're one of my resources to because you're also a human resources expert you have a sherm. Do you WanNa tell people what a shame is. While sure to be the society of Human Resource Management and that's organization that does tremendous work might certification is actually an SPA jar. Which is the senior professional human resources? You know in any way that I can help. They're absolutely happy to my focus in human resources has been on the people right and the leadership in helping people through change man. You know I didn't even think about it as has sherman providing a lot of updates on their site absolutely. Oh Gosh. I didn't even think about that. Listeners will link that in the show notes a bit it's S. H. R. M. Sherm. If you just google it you'll find it but I'll definitely Lincoln in the show notes. I totally didn't even think about that. What a what. A great resource. Let's say that the virus has decided to go away. It's run its course. It's just you know whatever so we're going back in and we now have to. We have to deal with our teams right. So do I mean I don't WanNa put you on the spot so much because I know every office is going to have. Its own time line. Says Somebody's first? Thirty days may not be the same as everybody else's but as a leader. What am I doing the first little bit when we've got everybody back in the office so I'm GonNA actually move even further ahead in the first for further back right those thirty days were all coming back? Some of us are gonNA come back faster and stronger than others and I think what we do now is what's going to make the biggest difference so don't wait until the date has been announced. Just stay in touch with your team and your patients in touch with them now. I would say once a week reach out your patients once a week through email social media any of your social connection software that you have to the car and you're in there route. You're still on radar with them with the team. If you have your skeleton crew there there's much you can do in the term in terms of both personal and professional development right with the team. I have one client who the whole team this week. They spent six hours a day in continuing education online. They're like okay. We're hunkering galleys or forces. We wanted to take their valuable retaking now right there are some more working from home and can do some online education there others who if they're on their own just encourage them. What books are you reading right? I have a book club that we we are planning zoom meeting because we couldn't have a regular meeting right so on a personal level. What are you reading? That fills you wa. What are you reading? The teaches us something new. I think continuing education in dentistry is what keeps things full of energy and enthusiasm minute. Just there's so much that's new and good and changing and that's what provides the passion on a normal basis right back to the fundamentals. You know some people are saying what's the new thing we can do? We already have our thing. We know what works. Let's go back to education personal development professional development and add to the mix now so when we do that if it six weeks or eight weeks serve you know whatever it is. Whenever that time is we're GONNA come back strong so right now there's a I mean I don't WanNa say there's a lot of downtime because some offices are actually really busy doing stuff. The whole manual thing the whole process manual those soap's and all of that. I know you're really good at helping with that. I learned a lot from you about that. But is that something that they could work on? I mean is that one of those things that they could work on and I guess. Is there anything that you would add to that? Because of these different times absolutely work I think the best thing to work on is what your team has decided is the best thing to work on one thing. That's really important as a leader is not to micromanage this change. You don't have all the answers anything if you did. The team will be much more willing. If they're part of creating it gay people support with help create. Those are some of the most important words you're ever GonNa Learn as a leader sat again because I just interrupted you said again people support. Would they help create? I love it guy so I use that even with the basic job description. I'm one of those speaks that think job descriptions really fun and exciting. Everybody else has them on the show with Dustin them but it's how we set clear expectations. It's how we honor what people are doing and how they're growing right. I agree with changing them at least once a year. I don't say here's your new job description I say let's take a look at the the old one. And can you go through that in edit for me? Add in what you're doing that you weren't previously doing cross off what you're no longer doing her. Procedures materials our technology changes constantly so we can't expect somebody to meet our expectations for them. If we haven't outlined them so person work on their job description bring it back to you and you certainly can do final edits on it but having them involved in the process. It's now their job description. They helped create so use that same philosophy when you step into whatever changes. You're going to work on right now. How do we sure things up you know? How do we spark some growth here within the practice and if your operations manuals need were why not? Why the winner? Because for every change that you've had in your process you need to document it now. Some people will just because it's the way it's GonNa work out. Some people will not come back to the same positions. The goal of an operations manual is to capture the knowledge so that when a team member leaves the knowledge doesn't meet with them. Those doctors who are saying okay. I've got a team or I'm thinking maybe I should hire team for certain hours a week to keep them active and to help everyone. If we're all in it together we all have to to help right if you will be working right now on reviewing those manuals one of the best things you can do is say. Let's all get together and create the table of contents. What does that look like? And then can we take that table of contents separate into areas of expertise in half people work on it. A basic protocol sheet. I'm happy to provide that for them that they have to get. That started right okay. That's good so Jenny's offering a a protocol sheet for that for the operations manual and I want to be clear to everybody. This is not your human resource policy manual. This is your standard operating procedure manual. So that which goes over its SAP O. P. A. Lot of you'll hear called S. O. P. and goes over the one of the ways that you do things in the practice the specific so that if you're bringing somebody new in than they know one of the hardest things like everybody knows it's hard to be shorthanded right But the hardest part of the cycle the first three weeks after you hired. Somebody agree because you technically are still shorthanded because your training and your training in addition to that so it can feel really awkward right. You can have a training manual. That'S CRISP. It's up to date and it really documents. Well who voice that going. Save you some time. The your teams can be using that so and that's good practice in a normal time but the challenge in normal time is how do I create these protocols and constantly update them? We are so busy. We're not so busy right now. Yes I'm thinking two things when this is all done. How do we want this to look when we go back? And I'd like us to have skilled up so that we have new support in resources there to help us and wake us to know that we stayed together as a team. We can help them. We protected those are the two things that we can do. And most of all realize this helps me a lot. I go back to Stephen Covey all the time. Seven habits highly effective people wanted his things is I am not a product of my circumstances a product of my decisions and that really rings true for right now because we can be consumers of news and really just feel that the heavy stay with us. We're we can say okay. I will check in with the news. Update my team at least once a week. Maybe every other day. But I'M NOT GONNA pepper people with the same news. I'm getting you know where it's constantly changing right. Real time to step back. Think critically and decide what the most important information is. But I'm going to set a focus one of the things that I I love about what I do is that people can apply both to their personal life and to their work life. Here that from my plans all the time. Oh my gosh I my husband and I are having a whole different conversation now because I used one of the the exercises that you gave us. Oh the thought change process that you gave us kids you know. Yeah and it's fun and when we can see at work with the kids then we can imagine how it works with their co workers and once we see something work then we start to feel confidence so let's work on competence which will build our confidence. That's aloof that we go through all the turn at like us to be working from that now well with all of the moms and Dads who are now staying home and dealing with their kids. They may need your services more than ever. There's a lot of surprise parenting going on right now. Our good friend Rachel Wall. I saw something on her inspired hygiene her company but I saw something on her social media site where she said we are actually having huddles every morning with the kids. That's good for you Rachel Math. That's a great thing to do where they're setting corpus. What are we? GonNa do today right. So we're taking. These skills are team members. Not these skills. We're taking these skills for bringing them home. That's no Rachel. I Love Wild. I think that even if we don't have children at home who have slowing that they need to do. What's your focus for yourself some people? It's it's just them. Some people is them in their spouse right so focus in any given day and I don't think that we should allow any one thing to drive how it feels to us because whatever we focus on. That's what we're gonNA feel right. Might my favorite hack for all of this is be really careful what you say after you say I am. I am upset. I am confused. I'm angry. I'm I don't know what to do right. Because they the brain science neuroscience teaches us that our subconscious thinks we are brilliant. Right it just follows whatever we say so I don't know what to do. You're gonNA feel that throughout the day and you're going to constantly find confirmation of it so this is a prior copen one of the things that I used to say when I was helping team members understand this is I would say remember all the way back to high school. When you had that breakup and the morning you turn on the radio and every single song was about your break up all my gosh. You're so right. I'm going straight back into the eighties with that. Oh my God numbers knows what I went through right. Simple as you go and look at addressing. You don't buy that everywhere you go. You're seeing that dresses that absolutely. We're focused on whatever's renting space in our brain. That's what we're going to grow and build and feel right now. I think it's really important that we say okay. I've been through crisis before and I come through. What do I know to be true right now? I am a resilient person I will figure this out. I'm very competent and I have very competent friends in experts and colleagues and together. We're going to do this right so I think if we if we put in place we consciously have to do that. We then become a role model for the people around us and when they look back they're going to say. I'm so glad that you helped me see that because now here it is two months later three months later. We're getting back to work and I don't feel like I just took the summer off and I have to bring last year's Algebra right. I feel like I'm back and strong. And we've stayed connected. That's what I want with that being said because you're talking about being a leader to your team and and making sure that you stay connected with them. I just WANNA say to the managers and doctors who are listening. It's okay though for you to take a break from that. There is a lot of pressure being the manager being the practice owner to constantly be positive and some of us. It's easier for others. It's easier for some than others and it's okay for you to shut down for a couple of hours go watch. Whatever is on Netflix? Or whatever and take the burden off of yourself because I think Jenny. I think you would agree if you're supporting person. One hundred percent of the time. There's no time for self care as well and that's super important in these times so when you have your morning meeting your huddle whether it's with Selker with your kids right. I think you should be looking at three to five categories so family. What are we doing today for family and friends? What are we doing for self care wellness? Hey what are we doing for flat out fun? And then what are we doing? For Personal Development Professional Development. There may be days where you say okay. Development just went out the window because today it's going to be all about wellness family friends and fun go. I think if we do that we're going to create some wonderful memories and that's part of this. We want the sweet memories that go along with the sadness of the challenge. That could be going on right now but if we do that every day all day we're going to say wow. I did have an opportunity. I'm sorry wasn't focused on the performance. Piece not to be in on Netflix Junkie. I know some people. Aren't I think that's awesome right? I think you do whatever feels you. What but I think. Find some room in there for the development to and supporting both yourself and your the people that you care about right so protect in connect and then have a plan so that you can focus your time so that it's rewarding and you feel like you are a product of your decisions. You are making some good decisions here. That are filling you up instead of just feeling like you are a consumer of everything. That's happened no kidding. Yeah I mean I. It really is being just Spoon Fed if you are forced but actually if you're watching the news all the time I mean I usually when I'm working I usually have the news on in the background. Just so I can look up every now and then see what the stock market is. See what the headlines are and now when I look up I'm I'm watching it and I have to stop myself because again. I'm just taking it. All in the numbers haven't changed that much and I need to stop looking at it right. So you went over the perceived timeline for when the team goes back to work and all of that I wanna ask you a very specific question but I think it's going to be specific to a lot of our leaders right now. I'm hearing from many office. Managers that are either not coming back or they're planning on stepping out of that role and I think a lot of doctors are going to come back. I think most doctors will come back with their teams. I do but I think there are some doctors out there who are GonNa come back and realize that they don't know the management side of it because somebody took care of it or maybe it's changed completely and we have all these new rules and regulations that we have to do this. You have to do nowadays. Post Co vid. Is there some advice you would give to a doctor? Who now is walking in? And it's a brand new world. No help in sight now. It's all them is there. I mean how would you? I know you've had clients like this. How do you? How do you coach them through that? I head coach among the Ledge. I guess is what I'm saying. I certainly in normal times. When some practices are thriving. I have heard from doctors who said just fired. Everybody I'm starting over or every I'm starting now. What so we've had these situations before. These are things that we have worked through the most important thing for any doctor who has a change. That feels really big to them is not to say how do I do. This myself is to say. How can I help? Who CAN I go to right. Because a doctor who's been focused on the dentistry and we know that is the main reason most doctors got into dentistry as they love that aspect the clinical aspect the impact. They can have with patients but they are many different hats as well so for the doctor who is mainly focused on building their clinical skills their competence in that level. It's one of the reasons why I wrote pivot a few years back to the number one question. I have gotten from doctors for thirty years. That's been can I just do dentistry? The doctor coming back into the practice right now is thinking. Oh No I'm gonna just do the dentistry. I actually miss doing it and now I have this. We answer is yes you can just do the dentistry. If you get the leadership in place so learning skills learn leadership skills. Propen reach out to people who can help you you. Can I promise you I have never ever heard from Dr needed a team member and we weren't able to find work. There are good people out there and the people who might not be coming back. They're still good people to respect the fact that they made a decision that was best for them and their families that this night if it does take a lot of find the right person absolutely. But they're they're they're out there. I firmly believe they're out there. I wanted to add on to that advice If you're an associate dentist you're probably GonNa go right back into things and be very busy and again. Don't burn out but business as an owner dentist. I think it's really important for you not to fill at least one hour a day. The temptation is going to be to pack your schedule. Because you WANNA see everybody that needed to be seen but if you're an owner dentist actively involved in the management finances and all of that give yourself an hour a day not just lunch but you know maybe take an hour and a half lunch but you need to pay attention to the legalities. They're gonNA keep coming because it's not gonNA stop go back into the practice and you are going to have to look at things like your inventory whether or not. That's that's working for you do it now but also you are going to have a lot of things. Come at you that you weren't expecting so don't fill the temptations to fill your schedule. Try to resist that because that get that little forty five minutes to an hour that you gave yourself I guarantee you. You will not just be sitting around. You will be doing something as an owner Dennis. So I'm afraid of burn out down the road. I'm afraid that we're going to get to October and November. And I'm going to hear from my manager friends. I need a vacation. It's been worse than I can imagine. Or whatever some some will be no. This is great. We've been able to reset and I use the term recalibrate a lot. And that's that's going to be great and I apologize for not talking about your book because your book is fantastic so it. That's what happens when you're really familiar with the people you have on your show. You kind of forget that they've done all these amazing things. So I will link in the show notes to Jimmy's book. This called pivot. You can find it on Amazon right. I think I've seen on Amazon but I get from you as well. Your whips your website which I'll link when you when things go back to normal. Let's just say relatively norm. How often should they be having a big meeting around the team? So I know you're you're very good at saying we need to meet on a regular basis. We need to share goals. And all of that. I know you were doing in person. Pivot groups with the offices. At what point do you think offices are going to be ready to make huge changes again? Once they get back into the swing of things. Well I wouldn't say huge right. We deal with things as we learn about them and we instead of coming to the team to say this is what we're going to do so much weight on the doctor them to remember support with the help create so prior to going back when you have a date yet together and say all right. So what's on everybody's mind? What are you all think is most important as we go through this? So let's just brainstorm at all and we can separate into categories after that and then we can put it into action steps so we can know how to step into. I promise you the brain power in zoom meeting. Your facetime meeting is going to be greater than just what you could come up with on your own right so you certainly going to have the impact of colleagues. Thank and that's something that's really. We didn't mention yet but I think we should be keeping up with colleagues as well so you know who else is going through this understanding it better than another practice owner so who brought to your study groups or to your local referring doctor's new doctors that just started an NBA there. You know for each other but then come to your team and let them be part of creating what this is going to look like and then plan when you're you're going to need to be in the office sometime prior to seeing patients right because you're going to need to make and it could be as simple as rearranging reception room you. You might not be able to have the chairs right where they are. You may need to have some new Informed consent to her New Medical forms intake forms. There's so many sterilization procedures. We don't know what those changes are going to be. But I would say whenever we get a date I would plan whether it be an online meeting or an Eventually an in person meeting. Don't try to do it all at once but let the team be part of that process and then once you're back in the practice I agree with you. Do not pack your days right. Many doctors are already thinking. They're going to extend their hours. They work four days. They're going to work five. I think it's important that we do all come back strong and that maybe you you know you want to make a policy that there's not gonna be any time off for a period of time. I need all on deck this period of time and then we can start talking about trips and vacations rights and there can always be an exception to but I think if we get everybody in the same mindset to say. We're all back. We're all here. We may even have to entertain the idea of overtime so that we can get back but we do it very deliberately and intentionally involving the team. It's going to be bar better than if we tried to dictate what that's going to look always right but especially now and it might be that you're still going to take an hour a week to meet as a team certainly should be having your huddles with you do them. I in the morning or last thing at night. You should be your huddles but you may want to change the format of that. Hope for right now so these are all the ideas that can come up in a brainstorming session so that you get everybody on board and feeling enthusiastic about it. One of the things that I know for sure is that everything feels worse when you're only thinking about yourself and the impact it's having on you right. You can't change it right now when you can step outside yourself and be thinking how can I help? How can I serve? What can I do right thinking bigger? How can I show up my game for all the people who are counting on me so certainly for the dentist? They have that long list of people who they're taking care of but for every individual team member there are people who are counting on you showing up at your a game too. So don't be part of the negativity. Don't add to it if somebody has to bent not compassion empathy. Let them but then. What's the next step forward? I think our leaders need to remember. Their role is to push to the positive. We can't do anything that happened before Al. We push to the positive. That's what's GonNa make the difference. I look forward to the days when this is just a blip in the radar when this was just a blip in the radar and we are remembering remember during Kovin. Remember we did this during cove. I kind of look forward to those days. I don't know if we're GONNA have a new normal or not but you're right. We have to get out of our own heads and start helping other people you know talking to other consultants and speakers like yourself. The one thing I've noticed in our community all of our colleagues have really stepped up and started giving a lot of free education or minimally charging for education. But this is the time to take advantage of all the free webinars that you're seeing you know that's a good thing to do but but from our point of view it is really nice to be focused on doing what we love to do which is to help and the more. I do it the better I feel. I mean because the first couple of days I was Iraq and I find that if I am not doing something every day a in that goal. It's easy for me to sit on the couch and watch netflixing go. Oh woe is me so I think it's really important like you said to focus on what you're doing for other people Because that's that's really I mean for me? That's my role in this industry for you the same way and for dentists. You are protecting your team just like you said so now. I wanted to make sure that everybody knew that you have a horse online. That I think you're doing like the first first couple modules for free like they can do that for free right away. It works explain it. I have a suite of courses point when you step into thinking all right online. Learning is the place to go. I'M GONNA do a couple online courses. It's interesting to realize just how challenging the no kidding able to offer the best I could. My goal was started two years ago. My work has really been one on one and I'm not gonNA stop that. I love working one on one with my but I did just like really dentistry attracts people who went to help them went to serve. Want to make a difference right and so I felt this real desire to be able to help more people. And what could I do with an online course that would help people to be able to step in affordably to be able to learn some skills that could really build a high performing team right? Help them with some of those skills so the course ended up. I separated into three the first courses all in higher how to do it so that it takes a lot less time. Mike was for some people. Say you know it just takes forever and I they end up saying we'll just take the best of the bunch. I don't have time for this anymore. I can cut hours and days out of that process for you with hiring helping you get centered on how to do it and how to do it efficiently effectively and have it more than you know more than ever before really Good fit what a good people out there. They're not a good fit right. The second cost courses on on boarding. And it's one of those. I know you have experience like so many of us. Do we got thrown into the deep end. Like figure it out right. We used to call that you know sink or swim right. Most people today will just get out of the pool and go home leg now. If you don't have what I need I'm not doing this. They WanNa feel a sense of order and an opportunity to grow must be just WanNa know. They're growing and doing more so I really took on boarding very seriously but also had a lighthearted spirit about it so I love that course because it sets people up in a way that they haven't had before it helps both the the people who are doing you on boarding right because you feel better knowing that. Got The system right now. The the forms and the worksheets used that I posted them up on the wall. Like them much like we're segments. I have this when I I worked very hard with designers and putting them through I really do love the format that we provide the support for how to set yourself up and then how to have continuity and sustainability there and the biggest reaction. Because I've used all of these processes with my private clients the biggest reaction when somebody brings a new person on board is that the existing team are like wait a minute. I didn't get to do that. I WanNa do that right. So there's a whole concept that I'm thinking of is like re on boarding and making now's the time you know when you're bringing your team back that you have that opportunity to reset and that's a great idea. Yeah because we you may be dealing with new employees and it's good to have everybody on board that's in there now that's great so I think there's a big opportunity there. And then the development courses the third one and bats. How do we create a culture that supports all of this high-performing individuals that create a high performing team and culture? And that again so much fun for me to put together Because I took the best of what I learned and I I jumped into this high-performance coaching with both feet. You know I've done one of my own continuing education to learn how to create this way. People can step into it so the three courses are up there. You can find them just by getting onto my website. You'd Lincoln and when you do you get the first three videos there. In addition to the course but they're more of a summary that gives you a sense. I thought it was important for people kind of get a sense of my teaching style to say. Do I like this. Can I do this right? And it's a it's a deep dive so you'll have time for that right now. It's videos and audios in Exercises in assessments in case studies. It's also evergreen. It's going to be there for you. So if you have lost a practice manager you now have a framework right of what need somebody else can step in learn it so. I'm feeling blessed to know that I finally did I love it was well worth all the time and energy and finding the right platform and so in any way that that can help. I'm very very grateful. And we'll definitely link it and I think not just for existing managers and existing practice owners. But you know some of you are still associating and you're planning on stepping out on your own and I promise you you're GonNa think the insurance is the hardest part of being a practice owner. It is not the hardest part of being a practice. Owner is your team. Not they'll be difficult but the whole process people people is. It's hard people as hard so we people are heart so we have to really be better at being managers and if you're an associate right now and you looking to do that. This great time to get on board with that and I can tell you. I've no Ginnie for a long time. She is not like the kind of person that's going to send you a gazillion emails. Telling you to sign up for her course at is just not her style. You'RE NOT GONNA get browbeat on that. So I would take advantage of that. Absolutely get the free modules. See What it works on. The book by itself is priceless. I've given it to so many people used to give it out and in seminars and actually I need a couple more copies whenever you get a chance. I'm just going to let you know that but you know what the hardest part about people is the big really want to make a difference and this is what. I have found in decades of doing this right when we bring our teams together. We often have. Doctors will say to me. I don't know if I have the right team. It's just not working ninety five percent of the time they've got the right team but they all have their own idea of the best way to get to where we wanna go so we have all these people trying really hard. But they're banging into each other every which way this they're not following the same plans are my. Hr GPS is like okay. Here's the map. Let's all get on the same page. Listen you know when we can bring everybody on the same page and you get that brainpower. The Passion that desire to make difference there it. Is You blow? Throw your and you can feel so proud of yourself as a manager as a leader and that you know I remember. We've had fantastic teams. As when I in my past life as a manager we had fantastic teams and we've had really crappy teams to be honest and knowing what the taste of a fantastic team was. That was my. Gps IN A way. That was my. I was trying to find my way back to that feeling of having a great team. I remember when you name the course. Hr GPS and I just thought. Wow that's perfect because you know first of all. Nobody knows what they're doing as far as direction on team and you're giving them that so I think that's fantastic. It's been an hour. I knew it was GONNA without us even realizing it so any last thoughts before we sign off. Well I think would just ask everybody to take a deep breath and realize we will get through this and we'll get through it better when we do it together so go back to. How do we protect? How do we connect? How do we focus and feel as though we build our sense of resilience so we come back stronger than ever and remember to balance it? Right have your morning huddle balance it out. No that you're stepping into all the areas that are gonNA fill you up because the world needs us. The world needs are dentists and dental teams. And we all know that when we do it right. It's about so much more than fixing teeth. You know we really do change wives in the work we do. And so that's going to be there. That's not going away. If some of the people who are with you now go away. We'll find others so we will get the stability back. We will get the growth back and we just have to focus on that and trust in the process here. You know. We can't control it all so realize what we can control work on that. I think we'll be fine so again. You have calmed me down. You have given me my then. I'm not kidding people. This is why I call her because she makes me feel calm all that grace that. She's got just calms me down so I am going to go have a morning huddle with Griffin. And we're going to talk about what to do today and it's GonNa be you know scratches at one of our dogs. Just they're the best partners. They think were brilliant right. Oh Yeah could you imagine if audience members had tails you would whether or not it's working. Sorry okay I totally went off topic there. Okays it happens right so okay so ginny thank you so much for taking the time to be on here and we'll do this again for sure because I know where to find you so we'll do this again and I will link all of the information on the show notes. Everything that we've talked about and Definitely check out course definitely check out her book and keep an eye out for her on the lecture circuit. Or if you need somebody to come help you I mean I. Obviously you guys know. We're good friends but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend her at all for that so with that being said. I'm going to go ahead and wrap this up. Thanks Jenny. It was my pleasure. Thank you very much -solutely so until the next time that we talk as always. I'm super grateful that you take the time to spend your day with me. Subscribe to this podcast. So you'll get our next candidate. Discussion Theresa's website Odyssey. Mg MTA DOT COM that's Odyssey MG. Mt Dot Com for more information on Theresa's courses and speaking schedule subscribe to her newsletter. While you're there don't say we didn't tell you that.
Wondery Presents Guru: The Dark Side of Enlightenment
"Hey, listeners I want to tell you about a new true crime miniseries from wondering called Guru the dark side of enlightenment. You might remember a man named James. Arthur Ray from the mid-2000s. He was a charismatic self. Help Guru with some unusual philosophies. He promised his followers a path to wealth and happiness. He wasn't really well known until he was in that movie the secret and then he was a guest on Oprah's TV. Show a couple times after that thousands of people started attending his seminars, he was paid to be the next great self help Guru, but what many didn't know about where his more extreme methods methods. I pushed his pupils to their limits. Giving some the transformative life experience, they dreamed of and killing others. Alright I'm about to play you a brief clip from the show, but while you're listening, be sure to subscribe to wondering new. Miniseries. Guru, the dark side of enlightenment on Apple Podcasts, or you can binge all six episodes ad free right now on the wondering APP. It was March two thousand nine, and in a big chain hotel. New, Jersey. A crowd milled around waiting. Once the doors opened everyone headed for the same place. It was a large or With the big stage in front, the event was called the harmonic wealth weekend, a rigorous two day seminar that promised to get participants on the fast track to personal and professional success. It wasn't the kind of thing. Jeannie, Brown was normally into, but her daughter. Kirby had insisted that they go together. As they walked in, she had to admit the atmosphere was exciting. They had a walk through. A gauntlet will say a cheerleader. Jumping up and down, reading up the energy in the room and I remember saying to when women I said man you. You girls really had your coffee this morning and she said to me Oh, we don't drink coffee like that's poison. ooh, okay, well I do I love it. As everyone took their seats. The Lights Dimmed James Arthur ray stepped onto the stage and began version of a speech. He often gave. Let's talk about what's changing right now. In your world, you see. I firmly believe that you live in the most exciting time in our world history. To time where science and spirituality are realizing that their sister studies. James was tanned with a bright white smile, wearing a bright white shirt. Pretty Trim Athletic Build. Daily. Good good-looking just can't get going in the morning without. Give me a frigging break. Total Command of the audience people laughed. They nodded their heads. Like yeah, you know that higher energy kind of environment is just kind of fun you. You WanNa, be part of it you WANNA belong you don't WanNa. Stand down and be. Kind of against what's going on? because. Day was a star. Law of attraction says like attracts like an as you lock your attention upon that then another particle, which is in harmony with it is attracted and another attract another affect enough. Bang you've got a Mercedes. onstage he talked about reflecting on yourself and your position in life. Then he began to pull audience members onto the stage and ask them questions and like to have for volunteers to help me out here I need a couple of volunteers. Okay, come on, come on up. Give him a hand giving candidate. Come up I. Ginny was impressed. I was fascinated by his ability to really read someone you know. He read people really well, but as she watched, something began to Nag at her. There are a couple of times where he brought people up on the stage, and had them reveal very deep, personal troubling. Things in their life. Ginny is a clinical social worker and I sat there thinking. As the train therapists those are the kinds of questions that I would ask. If someone was sitting in my office, not in front of hundreds of people I was fascinated and uncomfortable. She turned to her daughter. Kirby. Who is mesmerized, just said you know. You know that's that's really not such. A great thing to do but Kirby was focused on James Kirby was in her late thirties, and had bounced around careers and relationships. She wanted more success and stability in her life. Ginny knew that carbon had been doing her own soul searching and the James's teachings had already helped, and she was going to stay there to get the most out of the experience whether she believed everything or not. But, neither of US ever thought. He was dangerous. Later that year after attending another James Ray Event with her father, Kirby Brown would get in her car and drive to Sedona Arizona for a five day. Intensive retreat with James called spiritual warrior. For James's followers it was the pinnacle event of their journey, and Kirby spent her life savings nearly ten thousand dollars to be there. The retreat started on October fourth, two, thousand nine. Five days later Ginny was at home in upstate New York. Around eight am the doorbell rang. At Eight fifteen. The trooper comes to the door. And asked me if I know Kirby Brown. He and my first thought was. Oh my God. is she in some kind of trouble, but it was more than trouble. Ginny would never see her daughter again. Subscribe to wonder he's new miniseries guru on apple, podcasts or binge all six episodes and listen ad free on the wonder yet. I am Steven, Johnson, the host of wonder podcast fighting corona virus every week we tell the stories of the leaders, scientists and thinkers who are lighting our path through the pandemic. This week I'm talking of the Davidson, the host of the lead about the NBA's ambitious plan to bring back basketball. How do you make contact sports safe during the coronavirus pandemic? Is it even possible and more fundamentally? Why is it worth trying to listen subscribed to fighting coronavirus on Apple PODCASTS spotify? Listen Ad Free in the wonder, Yep.
Author Ginny Sassaman
"The day show. WD! Stay with us in the second hour of our program on this Monday morning July, the sixth two thousand. And Twenty going to be talking to Paulviollis of CBS News in the League. He's actually Willis already. Let's Let's get right into with our news. Correspondent Paul Viollis thanks for joining me this morning. My pleasure, Dave Good Morning? Good morning, so you have been following the the. Case of this is an pronouncing this right Jillian Maxwell. I definitely go with the natural part I'd have heard. A couple of days I know. Okay G. I. S. L. Lay any or something. Yeah G. H.. I. Get unusually low amongst other things. Yes, yeah, yeah, and she of course is a longtime associate of Jeffrey Epstein, the notorious Sex criminal who seem to have a lot of connections among the rich and powerful And She has been arrested in New Hampshire just last week. And there's a Lotta speculation about the secrets she may be able to share with the folks in law enforcement about some of the powerful and rich people. She's hung out with over the years What do we know? Well what we know is she knows where the bodies very gave that net. That's there's no question about that, and he's a very cunning individual, so she will use this as leverage now also bearing in mind what we have right now is when when the FBI the federal government go after somebody. They're very meticulous and they take their time. Hence the old phrase. Don't make a federal case out of it, they they're very very meticulous. So rest assured before they executed that search warrant, they had already gone through the assistant us attorney, and sold their case to them relatively positive at this point, very solid case, probably starting with conspiracy, aiding and abetting as well as your. Very possibly direct participation and charges, relative and relating to human trafficking so. As far as that goes as far as the government has strong case, that's a safe safe that What equally safe about is? She is sitting on a ton of leverage, so if I were a betting man and I'm not, but if I were again, not see this case going to trial. I think she's going to play. I think she's going to drop a plethora of very very wealthy. Powerful names to that the government will make a deal with her, and they will get who looking for us. and I wonder can or to what degree? Can information that is shared by somebody Ms Maxwell's position. You know somebody who is facing very serious. Criminal charges herself so obviously there are some credibility issues connected there already, and she's now basically offering up. Other people. And In designed information about the other people. Stick or it or is it discounted or some? Somewhere in the middle of that range. Just because point very get very good point this won't be. Hearsay won't be third party information. It would be hard. Direct involvement with other individuals number. One number two is given how hunting an individual she is, and how manipulatives? She is very much, Dave. This is a woman who spent years manipulating young teenage girls. into human trafficking, at least that's alleged right, so she inches of her not having video evidence and tape recordings and the quote, unquote black book are highly unlikely. I don't think she's going to come to the table with with speculation, I believe I would I would be surprised if she doesn't come to the table. I've mentioned before with a plethora of hard evidence against the number very wealthy thousand people left. The government's going to want that. Yeah I suppose I mean I in a sense. Would she then had been? You talk about a cunning and manipulative. Suppose if if if you were extremely in that way, she might have been kind of intentionally gathering such hard evidence over time so that she would be exactly have these bargaining chips? If they ever might be needed, right, which is which is exactly my point. That's the kind of person from a behavioral standpoint that you're looking at anyone that would do would. She did the length of time that she did. It tries to play the victim card in played it very poorly by the way with not walk away from the table with some without something that was going to protect her. Yeah. Wow, what a world I mean! This is. This is out of my league I gotTA. Tell Ya and I'm happy and grateful, frankly to say that but I mean these people are and and I've just I've never really understood the any of the motivations here you know. Why does anybody even engage in this kind of behavior with underage people? And put other human beings, and such a such a an unfortunate. Victimization position like this. I. Don't get it from the get go, but. You, don't get it, 'cause. You're a good guy. You know you supposed to get this. You know these are people that are quintessential sociopaths non cystic people. Overly controlling people, they're individuals. They feel because they have a lot of money that people are property. They're like furniture. And they they bind seldom as would anything else, and it's people like Adam arrested more than them that you can imagine. It's people like that. That will sit at the court, very. Of human trafficking the funding of it, they're the the organizational structure of it. Those are the ones that find sell human beings in this world, so to for the government to be able to get to there to that level. Do not be surprised if she doesn't go to if she if. She can deliver. On those individuals with evidence, if US attorney feels, couldn't forward with. One of the people who? I guess was frequently photograph socializing with Jeffrey Epstein, of course was our President Donald Trump. And I've seen socialized with a Lotta people. Dave I mean he here played. You got listen. You always gotta look at the other side. You got to respect your opponent. ex-team was a piece of garbage. But he was smart he. The circles to play in to get what he wanted, so he? You'll also see him frequently photograph with. President Bill Clinton. with pre injured, so he played in the right circles because he knew that's where he would benefit from, and that's what we give him the asset he wanted to. You know I'm sure there's GonNa be a bunch of things they're going to be tossed out. The bottom line will come down to whatever evidence. This woman nets well can produce to provide leverage for herself. Jury's out on that literally, so we'll see what happens there. Something tells me you're not going to talk more about this in in the in the weeks and months ago. Yeah. Right well I I I don't know it's a it's so sordid. I almost wish we didn't have to. But on the other hand you know as a news item it's. Kind of fascinating, it's a slice of human life I guess that just you go what? In any way you know what gave a message solutions, great listeners and Waterbury about it right parents. Know exactly what your kids are doing. You know yeah waste. And and don't be afraid. You know to be apparent. You're not their friend, you the parent and and know who they're communicating. Know who their online with monitor social media chatter monitor all of it. That's where this stuff starts so strong lessons, everybody. Yeah that's. That's an important message. There Paul Begala of CBS I. Really Appreciate You joining me this morning to share it and. We'll talk soon. Thanks a lot. All right. Let's go to work with. We have a caller in a line. Is Fred from newbury still with us? Yeah. Good! Morning, frayed. Do you think the people responsible for witness protection can prevent. Maxwell from committing suicide. live course you're asking the question of what to Jeffrey Epstein. He was incarcerated and was suddenly dead. and. The official line. There's a suicide. A lot of people have questions about that. The. I don't know I. Who knows I mean they were not able to to prevent. The death of Jeopardy Jeffrey Epstein. Just. I, don't know it. It's really hard to speculate I. I mean I I hope so. You know if justice needs to be done here and and this this woman could be a key witness in bringing some justice. then let's hope. He stays alive long enough to do that and. I can't tell you whether she will or not. Obviously I don't have any any inside knowledge of. She does that suicide you'll be? You'll be the biggest scandal. The twentieth century. I mean. Well accepted. It's twenty first century Fred. Reports that you. Would get. would. Be believable I mean I can't imagine the government allowing her to commit suicide. If, they can't prevent it then they're inept. I you know the question is? Whether. The The Whether With one prevent you know there's another question Yeah, well, that's. Good. That's that's a good played game. Now my question is would you like to go into witness protection program. I know no I wouldn't. I don't want to live a life that were ever leave to lead me to be. Lead me to go into the witness protection program? I. Just, have had a I'd say fairly innocent life. I'm glad that it never hung out with Jeffrey. Epstein or Jillian Burge. Whatever name is Maxwell. and. I had an insulated Q. Look the other way. Yup! So I. You know who the heck knows I mean. I think that In some ways, this story is sort of a the salacious scandal that scandalous aspects of A. Kind of grossed me out, but on the other hand you know human trafficking is a serious issue. In our society, and if this woman was in in involved in a circle of human traffickers. you know I. Hope I. Hope she and Oliver. Cohorts Go Away for a long time, and that's pretty much the bottom you know, but what do processes important right so you're saying that I agree with you. She's got to have due process and did she commit suicide? Doesn't sound too good. Yeah, I mean. I agree I agree. I mean I. I hope that I I hope that folks are smart enough to realize. They basically just can't let that happen and. To have her die, following Jeffrey Epstein's death would be Just really On the other hand, then you have to ask yourself, so who would bring the consequences there you know. I mean you really didn't know heads of rolled that I? What's that? The federal government would have to be charged because I would imagine. The government is protector because that was a federal current. Well The federal would be responsible for her protection. The federal government projector, so she didn't have a trial. Something wrong! Yeah yeah all right well Fred. I gotTa go, but thank you for the call and. Let's keep our eye on this one. It's going to be a weird weird case for sure either way. Anyway, it turns up. Or use a weird case. I need a dose of happiness and I said to myself I know what I'm GonNa do I'm GonNa Bring on the program today. Ginny, Sassaman. A writer and UNITARIAN preacher from Callus who just produced a book called Preaching Happiness. Just joyful world and We need someone at right now, so let's talk to Jimmy Sassaman for this next bit of the day Graham Show here wd. Fm Am I believe. She joins us on the phone right now and genie I don't know if you knew this was going to be a rescue operation today, but might be happening. Yeah no question. No question. It was there an ancient Confucian I believe curse. May You live in interesting times. Are, interesting times we are in. Times and from from my perspective that is why. We need to understand and to nurture and cultivate. happiness both personally and fourth grader. Good more than ever. To me. It feels like the times are very. Precarious. But at the same time. FULL OF HOPE We were not headed down. Pat In so many ways. And, the people that were in is actually providing an opportunity. For us to move forward in a much more positive way and for me, that is where happiness comes in. Yeah, it's it i. i WanNa talk about the connection between a sort of the your personal happiness and your. And sort of social happiness, because you've been very involved in gross national happiness, USA and Efforts to promote happiness as a standard by which to measure. Social indicators so that's that's sort of a Mac. Yeah the macro level. Of happiness, the micro level of happiness, I've been reading in your book over the weekend and and finding you know many discussions about how People's own personal thinking in habits of thinking really can have an influence in their own lives and then make them a better. Participants in efforts to to enhance the broader social happiness so talk about that connection there between I guess I'm calling at the micro level in the macro level, but maybe a better terminology for it. An eight micro and macro works for me. I think of in mostly in terms of individual happiness and well-being and communal or systems change for happiness and well-being macaroni micro same thing. Yeah, so, you know if there's a lot of books out there right now on. especially on Purple Personal Happiness There's been a whole movement for I. Don't know a decade or two at least. with the growth, a positive psychology, which is which is wonderful. It's really it's really bringing bringing science to look at. Not only what do we humans need to get through the day? A day when you know really distressing headlines or Just, a normal day when there's always something that kind of goes wrong. What do we need not only to get through the day but to arrive? To be our best. To hear most joyful or most luffing are most compassionate. You know really during this time that we're on the planet. How can each of us make the most of it? So, there's that. At the same time there has been brewing kind of systems happiness movement. Better round for a long time, and there's a great speech that Bobby Kennedy gave in nineteen, sixty eight, where he talked about how our measurement systems are policies. Focus. Don't focus on the right things you know. We're just focused on money. The GDP which all GDP the gross domestic product. Just measures kind of the exchange of goods and money. But it can be on building prisons. You know it can be built on cleaning up. Oil spills isn't necessarily on what makes life wonderful joy as beautiful and meaningful. So along came the country baton. and. They first started developing. A system called gross national happiness. Now. I know many listeners in central Vermont. wonder about the time and there was question of Issues of brutality. Involving may police refugees. so it's not like. Bhutan is a perfect country, 'cause no countries perfect, but they came. They have this great great idea. That instead of making policies based on Mighty really, which is what? which is what we're mostly focused on in this country that the GDP money Material success, but instead to have a whole. Framework that looks at all the different aspects of life that makes us happy, so our our health, the education of her children, a beautiful environment and making decisions that take all of those factors into consideration. So I came into the happiness movement through that I love the concept of DNA and to be so practical. it's so practical. It's just saying what really matters. What really matters to us all? And stepping away from this very narrow, minded son, just a piece of what's important. But as I was studying DNA CH, and trying to understand it, and trying to understand how it might be put into effect and how to communicate it to the public I also realize that. You know all movements are made up of people, individual people and the work needs to be On a personal level as well so I, then began really exploring, what is it that really leads to thriving happy, meaningful personal life, and it all goes together. It ought to be. We're all connected. and. We are all connected, and and and I one thing that I think people need to understand about the idea of gross national happiness. Is that there are? There are some Some pretty. Solid ways of measuring. The different kind of ingredients that advocates of Gross National Happiness as as standard Can Account for and and so tell tell us a little bit. About what are some of the some of the measures? That countries that are starting or or programs, there are starting to look at Gross National Happiness as a measure of national wellbeing. What what are what are some of? The smaller measures they're looking at I'm happy to do that. I just had one little piece here. Just because the moment that we are in in terms of well really both cove and healthcare, and how that should be, that should be an important part of our policy framework but also the rising up of the black lives matter. movement and I think that that one of the pieces of GDP and the focus on money which to me. Kinda translates into. You know I want all I can get for me and my buddies, and it ends up with a system with a few people, the top who are extremely wealthy and many other people who are oppressed exploited to create that wealth for affairs, and in this country that has certainly been a lot of the. The people who were the workers who are getting exploited. Are People of Color. whereas a system that says. Let's look at the wellbeing of all people and let's look at all the factors. That support that wellbeing to me that making that systems could be big big way of reducing both income inequality, and of you know really combating systemic racism, so I think that's an important piece. It's always important, but I think it's especially important. Three set up right now. That's that's actually. A. Great way of kind of tying the project to. A very topical is you say an important important issue. Guinea Sassaman is my guess she's she's the author of preaching happiness, creating a just and joyful world. We're going to go to a bottom of the hour break for some CBS News and a couple of words from the sponsors of the Dave Graham Show here wd FM and am. We'll continue our conversation with. Ms. Sassaman when we return and we will. I hope take some listener calls. I am here to hear what listeners might have questions for denise. Ask our guest and we'll be back shortly. Folks stay with us. We're. Opening upstairs at the Warren. Store following CDC guidelines we will allow three people at a time from ten to four Friday Saturday, and Sunday, and eleven to three Monday, and Thursday until further notice, or you can email Lori L. O. R. I. STORE DOT COM to make an appointment. There's lots of great summer clothing at fifty percent off outside and new spring merchandise upstairs. Please wear a mask. We have disposables and we will be selling organic wired ones from product think-tank. We'd love to see you stay safe mainstream, Warren village. It's the day Graham Show on Wd FM and am. We are back and I wanted to make little announcement I wanted to mention the fact that normally I'd be saying about this time of the Graham show on a Monday just after the ten thirty break that don't forget it eleven o'clock we have a news conference coming with the governor, but that is not the case today. The governor has been holding news conferences about the states response to the Kobe nineteen crisis Every Monday Wednesday and Friday wd. DVD's been carrying live and. We're changing the schedule this starting this week the governor's GonNa Guess. Slow the pace of these news conferences down to twice a week from three times a week and it appears the schedule is calling for them to happen on. Tuesdays and Fridays, so we will not be carrying the governor's news conference today and said we'll go to common sense radio with Bill Sayer after the day Graham Show but the Governor's do will be on a wd just after eleven o'clock. Tomorrow morning and then again on Friday. Updating folks on what latest is on the governor's efforts to slowly reopen the remind economy and restore some to normalcy in our the lives of our states. In. All the all the work of the top state officials including. Mark Levin and others who have been so so dedicated to try to work through this crisis in Vermont has been paying off. Say Vermont's numbers are looking relatively good. compared to what is happening in many other places. And it seems as though a lot of the strategies that are state officials here have been using a in response to the crisis have been. About the best you can do and so hats off often that regard They have obviously more work to do as we all do, and they'll be talking about that on Tuesdays and Fridays going forward on these. News conferences the WB will broadcast live so on Tuesdays and Fridays and keep the heat the KNOB. Right where it isn't a. don't touch that dial. Say and you'll be able to tune in to the to the News conferences on the Kobe nineteen crisis just after. The Dave Ramsey show so all right well. I want to get back to. My guest this morning. is. Ginny Sassaman. She's the author of preaching happiness sits. Creating a just joyful joyful world, a new book just out, it's actually. Interesting kind of structure for buckets, it's really a collection of sermons delivered at UNITARIAN churches in Vermont. I think mainly perhaps even exclusively at the UNITARIAN church in. It Barnard and and talked me a little bit. Ginny about the about the history here. this book come to be and do I. Have it right that this is that's primarily what it is and where where it happened. You know! All of these sermons were originally delivered at the Church and Bernard but I've given the sermons at other churches in Vermont in particular my own Church, then I'm a member of being Church of Montpellier but others like in Jericho and Washington, Vermont and Berry. yes, so. So The idea of despite. Came to me because. Because this has been my passion and the concept of Gross National. Happiness can seem a little esoteric, a little hard to grasp and really understand. Even though it's not actually it's fairly simple, but it seems something. That's kind of you know for the economist or the Social Science. On the one hand, and on the other hand, there's positive psychology, which maybe that's something for academics or But also not necessarily super accessible and I see. Such tremendous potential in both these areas, really vastly improving gambles personal and. Collective life, but how do you reach people? How do you communicate that to people? How do you get other people to be passionate and get on board? And I had the great fortune in two thousand, twelve of being invited by my own church to give a sermon, and then that opened up the door. That I've been able to others. even though I'm not not an ordained preacher I'm just a lay preacher. But some very very interesting about giving sermons. And that is I. I believe in regular life. People mostly don't want to be told what to do. You know we. Sometimes we do sometimes it's like somebody. Please give me an answer, but mostly and we don't really like advice that much. But when? I stepped into the pulpit and I look out at these congregations of people, and they're looking at me. You know and every put their want something. So they may WanNa being mired. They may want comfort the they may want permission. You know they. They want something. So I feel like in the sermon in delivering sermons at any rate, people are wide open to taking in the information, so my hope is that when people pick up this book, they will be similarly really open. To receiving. The information that is in the book. And the other thing that I that I think that this format, or at least least how I do it, is it? It's just really it's accessible. You know it's down to Earth. Sermons me are filled with both personal stories. as well as information and inspiration, and and so I think it's sad, personal stories that. That we humans most connect with. We. Don't you know they spend some summer? Research that people don't like data all that much, but they like. So my goal with this book was to try to reach just regular folks, you know it's just regular folks because I think. People can all connect with the stories, and then there is a lot of data. There's a lot of research. There's a lot of information as well so. That's. That's what I trying to get these ideas out there in a way that I think people can really grasp bond to. And it's interesting to me that That sermons I I wouldn't really have expected this to be honest with you, but as I was reading your book. I said Wow, these these are these are different, enough and kind of Topic areas which do not overlap to any significant degree that that they make not only good sermons, but good book chapters. Working Editing if. Places where there was a weight I. Already said that, but I had a great leader, and Yes, there, but and there's more I still could rate and. You know and they're all things that I think people can really relate to. You know like forgiveness. having they handle conflict The interconnection between human wellbeing an animal wellbeing I mean there. There are many many different ways to go with this because really. Happiness is over arching. You know all all our lives everything we do in life. You mentioned conflict and that's actually an interesting point. I think I wanted to get to you on the program today. because I you know one of the one of the messages I. I think needs to be conveyed here is that. Is that when you when we talk happiness? We're not really taking a pollyannish approach. Here I mean there could be smart work involved, and there can actually be anguish on the road to happiness and and and you know so it's it's it's. It's not all I mean you're met. You use the metaphor somewhere in the book about You don't roses and thorns and so on. And and so I I, I I guess I mean to me. It's it's kind of A. It's important to understand that that we aren't just papering over the problems in life here, are we? No not at all and I am. Thank you so much for bringing that point up because it is really important. none of us can be happy. Twenty four seven I mean, it's just impossible period, and that's just not what life is, and you know to tie together with what you were saying at the break about Vermont seems to be doing fairly well with our Cova response. So one of the reasons I believe Vermont is doing well. Is because we are states with a strong Esso's of community and connection and caring for one another. which is an another key component of you know? My happiness isn't just about me. My happiness is about you know giving to other and taking care of others. and Sometimes that gets messy and sometimes that gets ugly. Conflict is inevitable. It's just inevitable and so one of the roots being happier is to better understand sort of the roots of conflict, and what some of the skills are for successful conflict resolution. We're we're else is from. Bhutan now is Gross National Happiness. Catching a cold in starting to influence policy if it is. Yes, oh. My favorite example right now is New Zealand new. Zealand has they don't call it gross. National Happiness but it is really a gross national happiness system. They call it, but people's well-being budgets, so and so that's where their policy decisions are made in their budget, and it is the same kind of looking at well, you know. What do we need to provide for the best healthcare for our people? What do we need to provide for the most equality with in our population? What do we need to best protect the environment? It's all built into their budgets structure, and then how they allocate money. and so systems like this they don't. Say you know Dave for you to be happy? This is what you need to do. It's more they look at what support structures. Our society needs to support that. which we know makes people happier and healthier. There are pieces of this happening everywhere, quitting another really interesting one that I like a lot in Britain Britain has established a department of Loneliness. because. Loneliness is epidemic and loneliness. Loneliness kills people. It also makes people just incredibly unhappy, but it's definitely. it's a in both in Britain, and in the United States, so that's another piece of. Making which is based on well-being, not just on money coming in and money going out. There fans some cities in the United States as well. In particular rate now Charlotte North Carolina. Combined with the surrounding county, which is Mecklenburg County, so they call it the Charlotte Mac Wellbeing Index. and. that is that is in the works right now and I've gone down there and I've met with those folks and one thing about. Their efforts so sometimes. People say oh, sure Bhutan could do that. Bhutan is a Buddhist country baton is is does not have much diversity at all. It's very homogeneous well Charlotte. Mac is the first. And the people who are working on this index together include really really diverse. Voices and they are looking at really really diverse communities and trying to come up with a new system and a new framework that is to the benefit of everybody, some very excited about what Charlotte Mac is doing and I think they could serve as a role model for the for the rest of the country. Already, we have a Colorado Lionel Listener. Samantha Montpellier's checking in Good Morning Samantha. Hi, good morning Dave, how you doing? Good things in high. Jenny How are you? This is a great show. I'm kind of calling with a shameless plug. I work at bear pond books in Montpellier and we're helping Ginny to launch her book with a virtual book launch on Wednesday evening, and I just WanNa urge people to attend that and to pick up the book. Do have copies on the shelves right now. The store is open. It's a fantastic book and I also mentioned you know the title Preaching Happiness and the fact that they were they were sermons. That Ginny had delivered I just WanNa say if people are maybe feeling off. Put that it might be a religious book. I just want to say that it's not. It's a fantastic. Book about everything that you've been talking about about happiness on the personal level I love the information about. Policy Making and how we can really affect change at the policy level and I I also urged any lawmaker legislators senators. They should all be reading this book so that they can see how to best create support system for wellbeing. That's kind of my little plug for the buck and I. I love the discussion. Thank you all right. Thank you, Samantha for the call, and that's actually that's actually a good point. I think it's worth mentioning that you know I mean if somebody is actually looking for book with a lot of religious content. Maybe this isn't for them, but he doesn't have lots. Doesn't have a lot of religious content it is. It is something which will certainly appeal to to to secular readers as well as as well as people who are people of faith or whatever you know. I think I. I actually think that that. the the idea of of these being sermons a May. Maybe a little bit of. I I. Don't know if it quite, it's not. It's not what I would think I in that category. It's certainly not Jonathan. Edwards are fire and Brimstone, or any of that stuff you know it's. A fire and brimstone. Really do freak eight. That point you know a A kid always make that there it the book. Is meant to be inclusive it I can, if you can be coming to it from any religious faith or no religious faith. to me, it's spiritual, but I I really respect where everybody is coming from in their own spiritual journey and I try to put things out there as suggestions as thoughts ideas that people can figure out. How to make them work in their own lives. And in their own journeys. And Yeah. It's never about telling people what to do or what to believe. Yep in in the I mean that's. That's an important point about this. When we talk about the word, preaching is in the title You can't always tell a book by its cover and certainly. While there is, there is some aspect of of kind of advice book About it it also as you say I think I. Think you really. You really nailed it Ginny. Sassaman that the book is much more. Suggestive than than prescriptive I would say and one thing. I wondered about in fact it was a in terms of. You talk about meditation as a key to happiness for a lot of people in in its benefits, and and I was just thinking I you know I've had some people on the show discussing the fact that people being home a lot and looking for things to do, and maybe not finding productive things to do as much as they should during this whole cove nineteen crisis Lot more substance abuse. Going a lot of a lot of you know we. We hear reports. Liquor stores are our sales of your own way up and so on and so forth. and I wondered maybe There's a sort of set of daily exercises or other other activities. That could be. Something you do in lieu of you know. Let's say it's five o'clock in the and normally you gotTa have that whiskey. Sour, GIN, and tonic or whatever? May. Maybe there's a different kind of happy hour. We can prescribe here. I work on that I love that idea I love that idea what let me. Let me. Give you this answer though. I These are hard times, and it is. It is challenging sometimes for me as well to keep my spirits up and ah last week. I was noticing just not at my best juice, not really thriving the way I would like to. So I decided to sit down and think about what is it that really nurtures me? What is it that makes me that does grow. My happiness does cultivate my happiness, because again I mean I want to be happy for my self, but also I know that. I I am I contribute to the world much better when I am also in better spirits so I made a chart. It's I'm a big one for measures in accountability. I need a chart of about ten different things that nurture me. And And so every day now I'm noting my goal is to do at least five of those things. So he could be. Meditating could be spending. Time in nature could be connecting with a friend. It could be creating art. I think it's really important. People I think there's this myth about happiness. That it's just kind of falls out of the sky and lands on us. In reality it's something to work at. Something to work at well I'll tell you I unfortunately. Word fast approaching the top of the hour, which means we're about out of time here, but I found this to be a fascinating discussion, and I really WanNa. Thank you, Jenny Sossamon for being my guest here on the Dave Ramsey show and Wd FM and am this morning. The book is preaching happiness creating a justin joyful world. There's virtually event. When when when is that? in people find it. At seven o'clock and whimsy made, and you can go to bear pond book dot Com to register. People can purchase the book from any dependent bookstore or Service. Publishing the based in Montpellier. Ginny Sassaman. Thank you so much for joining me more great chatting with you. All right. But it for today's Dave Graham Show here wd. FM and am have a great afternoon. Everybody will begin tomorrow.
"Hey guys this is Jenny. Allen and you are listening to the made for this podcast. I would say to the girl that feels alone that this is the beginning of a shift but you're going. I need your running buddies. You need to go find up you know name. 'EM Textile. It'll be a little bit awkward to be like Hey would you want to go to coffee and would you want to listen to this podcast with me just do it. Everybody is isolated. I have rarely met people that don't feel isolated so the person you're afraid attacks and say hey I need you. Would you come into this problem with me. Would you process this with me. The person you're going to invite into it probably feels isolated to and we'll be so grateful and if they don't if you feel like. You know what I I got a big. No we're going to talk about that in this series. We're going to talk about what it feels like to hit a wall and not feel like you have good friends. We're going to talk about what it feels like. The barriers to those good friendships are we're gonNA talk about the hope and the vision and the outline that God it gave us to have great relationships so you're gonNA love it. Stick with me. I promise you if you stick with me. In this series at the end of relationships will look different than they did in the beginning so the reason we're GonNa talk about relationships and community for the next several episodes is that this is a problem I hear more about than any other one in fact on instagram. It is the number one question I get over and over again. How do you make friends? How do you keep friends? I feel discouraged because I've been looking for my community and I can't find. Ended or what do you do when your community bales when you feel rejected when you feel betrayed when you feel cut out. What do you do about competition? What do you do about friends that become competitive? What do you do with your own? Jealousy towards other are people these things all fall in the category of relationships and so because it's the number one question I get and because it's something that I think is so essential to us being healthy and free and unstuck. I wanted to do a whole series about it and start here. I care about women getting unstuck unstuck so much because what happens and I've seen it happen in my own life and I've seen it happen in other people's lives when they get unstuck. There is a freedom of living into everything that God had them to be for a long time. I watched women in the church. Largely sleepy shut down now. I'm watching women the church largely live free. It's truly a difference as I go and travel and speak and with that freedom comes new stuck places because the enemies Never GonNa let people just run wild for God. Had and make a difference in their communities in their schools in their homes in their workplaces without putting barriers and hindrances and temptations in their way in fact the harder and faster we run after God the more he comes after us so I think what I see now differently than it did. Five to ten years ago is that women are largely getting free but they're facing new stuck places and so how do we push through those and so. What does that look like? We're GONNA look at God's word and we're GONNA talk about how we fight these things it's so interesting because when you actually read scripture you realize oh my gosh for generations upon generations centuries upon centuries we have been fighting the same crap it has all the same it is not changed even today with all the unique things Internet has brought and social social media at the core of us. We are still fighting. Insecurity jealousy isolation shame distrust all these things that Paul thought that work through out the Old Testament you see constant. Attention in relationships in fact it's largely a book about a bunch of broken relationships and how God can move through Medina Anyway. I have seen that in my own life and I believe it for years so I'm really excited about this first season of the podcast. How do I develop deep and real community while we're GONNA study the book of Philippians together and see what God has to say about that so I dream about what this could do where we would get free where we would get free together? I want us to see what it means to live life together in a real authentic way but with a Gospel centered hope there is a hope and that hope is Jesus and when we put him at the center of our community the center of our relationships a center of our problems is center of our day to day activities when we figure out how to do that things change as we walked together through this my hope is that people would experience. Experience breakthrough that they would see and understand. I've been believing that I've been saying that. I believe that but I haven't actually applied to my life. I haven't actually put it in the D._N._A.. Of My day to day experience I hope there's a super practical that that people people actually have handles like okay. This is how I can make friends. This is how I can keep friends. These are the things keeping me from experiencing the kind of community the the Bible talks about it is more difficult than you can imagine more costly but it's also more fulfilling anything we're seeking now. Make sure you are subscribed to this podcast. You do not want to miss a single episode. We have some incredible stuff coming up. I do not want you to miss it so go. Subscribe Grab Right now. Push the button one last thing we want to communicate with you and let you know the things that are happening with the podcast and ask you some questions as well so text. Jimmy Allen J. E. N. E. A. L. L. E. N.. Two three three one nine nine six. That's Ginny Allen one word to three one nine nine six and we will add you charge extreme and we'll send you all kinds of fun stuff free stuff communication and questions. We want you to be a part of the.
Wondery presents GURU: The Dark Side of Enlightenment
"In the mid two thousand, James Arthur, ray charismatic self help guru promised his followers a path to wealth and happiness, but not all who followed him finish their journey. This is the story told a new true crime miniseries from wondering called Guru, the dark side of enlightenment James Arthur. Ray Wasn't well known until he was in the movie. The secret about a cosmic law of attraction that can. Can Alter the universe to improve believers, health, wealth and personal relationships. Soon Ray was guest on Oprah's TV show, and after that thousands of people began attending his seminars, he was pegged to be the next great self help Guru, but what many didn't know, were his more extreme methods methods that pushed his pupils to their limits, giving some the transformative life experience they dreamed of and killing others. You're about to hear a brief clip from Wondrous Guru, the dark side of enlightenment while you're listening, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify, or you can binge all six episodes and free right now on the wonder up. It, was March, two, thousand nine, and in a big chain hotel in New Jersey a crowd milled around waiting. Once the doors opened everyone headed for the same place. It was a large auditorium with a big stage in front. The event was called the harmonic wealth weekend a rigorous two day seminar that promised to get participants on the fast track to personal and professional success. It wasn't the kind of thing ginny. Brown was normally into, but her daughter Kirby. Had insisted that they go together. As they walked in, she had to admit the atmosphere was exciting. And they had a walk through a gauntlet I will say a cheerleaders who jumping up and down. Up The energy in the room and I remember saying to when women I said man you. You Girls Really Hedrick coffee this morning and she said to me. Oh we don't drink coffee like that's poison. Oh okay, well I do I love. As, everyone seats, the lights dimmed James Arthur. Ray stepped onto the stage and began version of a speech. He often gave. Let's talk about what's changing right now. In your world, you see, I firmly believe that you live in the most exciting time in our world history. To time where science and spirituality are realizing that their sister studies. James was tanned with a bright white smile, wearing a bright white shirt, pretty trim athletic, build. Daily good looking just can't get going in the morning without my confidence. Give me a frigging break. Total command of the audience laughed. They nodded their heads like yeah. That higher an energy kind of environment is just kind of fun you. You WanNa be part of it. You WanNa belong you don't WanNa. Stand down and be. Kind of against what's going on? Because, James Ray was a star. Attraction says Langa tracks like an ASS. You Lock your attention upon that then another particle, which is in harmony with it is attracted another attract another enough bang. You've got a Mercedes. onstage he about reflecting on yourself and your position in life. Then began to pull audience members onto the stage and ask them questions, and I'd like to ask for volunteers to help me out here. A couple of volunteers okay, come on both come on, give him a hand given that they come up with I. Ginny was impressed. I was fascinated by his ability to really read someone. Read people really well, but as she watched, something began to Nag at her. There are a couple of times where he brought people up on the stage, and had them reveal very deep, personal troubling. Things in their life. Ginny is a clinical social worker and I sat there thinking The train therapists those are the kinds of questions that I would ask if someone was sitting in my office. In front of hundreds of people I was fascinated an uncomfortable. She turned to her daughter, Kirby who was mesmerized. Just said you know that's that's. That's really not such a thing to do. But Kirby was focused on James Kirby was in her late thirties and had bounced around careers and relationships. She wanted more success stability in her life. Ginny knew that Kirby had been doing her own soul searching and the James's teachings had already helped, and she was going to stay there to get the most out of the experience whether she believed everything or not. But neither of US ever thought. He was dangerous. Later that year after attending another James, ray event with her father Kirby Brown would get in her car and drive to Sedona Arizona for a five day. Intensive retreat with James called spiritual warrior. For James's Followers, it was the pinnacle event of their journey and Kirby spent her life. Nearly ten thousand dollars to be there. The retreat started on October fourth, two thousand nine. Five days later. Ginny was at home in upstate New York. Around eight am the doorbell rang. At Eight fifteen. The trooper comes to the door. And asked me if I know Kirby Brown. In my first thought was. Oh my God is she in some kind of trouble, but it was more than trouble. Ginny would never see her daughter again. Subscribe to wonder his new miniseries guru on Apple podcasts, spotify or binge all six episodes and listen ad free on the wonder Yep.