10 Episode results for "Geoffrey Berman"

Mueller's Misplaced Faith (feat. Joyce Vance, Glenn Kirschner)

The Daily Beans

1:13:50 hr | 3 months ago

Mueller's Misplaced Faith (feat. Joyce Vance, Glenn Kirschner)

"Means. Hello and welcome to the daily beans for Wednesday July Fifteenth Two Thousand Twenty today. The trump administration reverses its order to deport international students that don't attend in person classes in the fall gallon. Maxwell's bail is denied and she's remanded into custody until trial next. July Cudi Rudy tweets with his, but again the White House laid a trap to catch leakers new messaging from the administration about joblessness Mary. Trump is now free to publish speak the southern district of New York us attorney. Jeffrey Berman's transcript is released and Toppmoller Prosecutor Andrew Weisman is also writing a book. I'm your host ag and join me today. Jordan covert. How're you doing do well? This is a huge news day. Today is a really big news day I don't even know from. It'll be able to get all the breaking news in today But. There's just so much of it, but. Before we get to the news. I think we need to reel it in with corrections. Be Insane. I made a mistake. To major correction from yesterday and an apology, first of all the US Bonham, Rashard is not a nuclear boat. It is a conventional steam turbine boat I am a bad sailor for not knowing that I apologize and pets. The cowboys. The cowboys misled you. Jordan cowboys do not play the football team from Washington DC. Everything's giving. In Two thousand sixteen, they had met eight times on the holiday as they were slated, and they were also slated to play each other this year as well. I think that every time I looked up and DC was playing the cowboys I was like what the fuck, so I thought it was every year. But it is not every single year. The lions do play every year. Even still yeah I know yeah like they. Like they shouldn't do it ever skiving. Right and so but the lions play every year, and they usually lose, so I just want to throw that in there hut Detroit Anytime a Cleveland browns. Fan has occasion to dump on another team. It's always important that you take that Opportunity Yeah. Your your team, your your team sucks They suck really really hard. Just, kidding, it's fun, but our quarterback isn't. A trump supporter had so. That's nice. Are you referencing Tom Brady I was. He's gone, so that no longer stands. And I'm sure you hated them. The whole time he was there now. I thought he was back in the best, but. What addict though? Also, I know it's just like. Don't talk the But I also wanted to apologize yesterday. We used the team name from Washington DC, the very offensive racist team name. We use it about six times in our reporting yesterday and we shouldn't have done that and so I do apologize. We won't do it again hopefully. That name will never be heard again now that they are getting rid of it and. I'm sorry that we used it so i. just wanted to put that out there and also I wanted to bring attention to an lgbtq plus owned small business in North Park. I've talked about it before. It's called Santos Coffee. They're an amazing local business. They're struggling in this pandemic. Their P is gone, and if anyone can lend a hand, or if you know anybody in the San Diego area or if you want to help out, get a hold of Santos. Their They're on Thorne Street in North Park and they could You know they could use Any encouragement or help or you know marketing that you can throw their way absolutely wonderful. Wonderful, local coffee shop and I would hate to see I would hate to see them half go under because of what's going on in the government federal government's inability to act, and of course people's inability to act right and wear a mask, which is a again forcing them to shut down now again so. Again, they're called Santos. It's on Thorne Street in San Diego. Check them out and one of our own patrons is an incredible visual artist. Her name's Gail Christopher and she has pieces for sale to help fund the veterinarian bills for litter. Quarantine kittens that she's caring for her and tall manner caring for you can check her amazing art out at facebook dot com slash art by G, Christopher That's art by g letter G. Christopher. It's really really incredible I know Jordan. She sent us a bunch of of her work and I absolutely love it so good all right. We have a lot of headlines to squeeze in today. Solit- dot notes. Hot Notes. All right first headline today Beans Come True Epstein Co Conspirator Gillan Maxwell Aka. Life Images Lane was arraigned this morning in New York the a USA presented her case, stating that she was that lane was a flight risk, and that because of her hidden and opaque finances that no one can really trace. It was impossible to determine her determine her ability to flee the country or go into hiding, and therefore no bail conditions exist. That would work. The judge agreed and remanded a gallon into custody with her trial to begin July twenty first of twenty twenty one next year. So now it's up to bars bureau of prisons to keep her alive until then. God put a fricken feed on her like right now. Seriously yeah, like eight feeds. I mean where she's being held I I'm not I. Don't know the institution well enough, but is there. Do you have any hope of having a confidence? That something sketchy isn't going to happen with her at this point in time. I, really don't know. Yeah I really I honestly can't have I. can't have any idea I imagine if something happened to her. That would be I. Mean Epstein was fishy enough something happened to her as well come. Aw! Right Oh. Yeah I! I mean one hundred percent ABC's Shit is incredibly fishy I feel like this. This feels like another another iteration of knowing very well that something horrible could be coming and miscarriage of justice is coming could becoming, and this is the time to do something to stop it and I see virtually No headlines coming out about steps being taken to ensure her safety so that this trial can finally continue to some sort of end to get some sort of closure for victims but I. don't see that happening right now, and it's. It's really really frustrating. It's extremely frustrating. You have an extremely frustrating story. I do it's going to be a frustrating block for me today yes, I do so I have a couple frustrating stories, but the first one I'll go over is related to Geoffrey Berman's ouster that was coordinated entirely by Bill Bar, and as we know when Berman got ousted from his position, it was reported by bar that he had. Had resigned, and Bourbon very quickly came out, and said no I did not resign, and we got some more details about what went down with that execution of bars plan and how Berman was receiving, basically he testified Bourbon testified to Congress and some of his his full statement has has been released, and so in the statement we which we already saw he he. Basically said he talked with bar on the afternoon of June nineteenth, and then he talked again to him that same night, and he declined bars requests for him to take a different job. Berman said that the two of that were talking to. They're planning on talking the following day, but then instead what did was released that statement two hours later two hours after that phone call. Falsely claiming that Bergman had stepped down and no longer was going ahead. Sdn Y, so what really happened as we know is bar tries to dangle this option of him leaving as an attractive option for them, and he's like I'm not having that and we learn more about how he wasn't having it and why he wasn't having it the guy that he the bar was saying he wanted to replace him with both of the guys that he was suggesting Berman. These guys don't even have the experience. Necessary to take up this position, but if you want to go through the whole process of confirming these people and you do it right, basically go without a Peop- I won't say anything. You can just have that happen, and I'll respect the process, but Barden do that and so Berman is basically coming out saying like I gave you one I. Give you one condition to fucking get me out of here. which clearly was a move that was done because Bourbon was investigating people that are in trump's inner circle. Circle and was to circling in even closer you know on the on trump's ties to this co in hush money payment deal. It can't be a finance violation, so it's clear to everybody involved that Burma's not a friend to the people in the trump administration, and so when Berman is saying hey, just do the right thing. Just do it the technically right way and I'll shut up embar. Did it do that now? We see berm coming out and talking and I. Just I part of me is like. It's so satisfying to see this all so explicitly played out couldn't have been more cut and dry and barges completely shot himself in the foot on this one like it every step of the way, and unfortunately he's getting away with it, which really sucks at least for now, but some of the things that a bourbon was saying Congress, he said. Quote I told the Attorney General in that meeting. You know even though I said you know. Clayton was unqualified. I said look if he's nominated and confirmed. I'm stepping away without a peop- I respect the process, I told the Attorney General that I would not make a peep, not making noise if the normal process was adhered to which would be a nomination and confirmation of a candidate for the United States Attorney I, told expressly the attorney general in that meeting. He would not here Pete Better, so he's just consistently saying this over and over, and over again I told him this one thing, and he did not do it and It's it's just so. It's so nuts to me. That bar botched that. Corrupt process so badly like he could have gotten away with it. You Know He. He truly could have gotten away with it at least to some degree at least as far as Bergman's concerned, but now bourbons like no fuck that shit. I told him I told him to do it right and he won't do it right so. That's you had one job. You you had yeah, you had what job cut kind of Shitty that I mean like. As is kind of Shitty that Bourbon had that opinion because to me? It would be so incredibly clear that he was. He was getting pushed out. If that position for the sole purpose of not continuing to prosecute people that are close to trump, but I mean when you're in that position, and you know you take the oath, and you represent the Justice Department there. There's so much of that that we've seen throughout the investigation and still continuing I think that will always continue. which is a sit here to policy? Policy and procedure, but bar couldn't even do that. The nomination even like blindsided Lindsey Graham the guy that they put up for nomination wound up getting vetoed by the New York senators anyway so like he couldn't even go through. That's another element of this. That's coming out, is he didn't like did the team did BAR STEVE NOT? Even do the basic research to understand that this man wasn't going. Even be remotely considered so this this whole argument. He's trying to make of trying to give this guy the specific guy. This position can because he was. A specific choice of bars for some sort of special reason just is continuously undermined by the fact that he immediately got vetoed, and also he didn't even wind up taking the post. There is that you know there's the guy that's put it in the interim to so clearly, he didn't care about the post immediately. Being filled by that person, he just wanted Berman out, and that's become increasingly clear with the release of that testimony to Congress It's It's corruption at the highest levels, and and when you botch corruption that badly it just it becomes insane that it's not a bigger story it's it's weird. Next in axios in an axios exclusive president trump's chief of staff Mark Meadows has told several White House staffers that he has fed specific nuggets of information to suspected leakers to see if they pass them onto reporters a trap that would confirm his suspicions. Meadows told me he was doing that. said one former White House official I don't know if it ever worked. So I have this friend who? New Student this year. I convinced her that it would be fun to mess up Regina George's life, so I had her pretend to be friends with Regina and then she would come to my house after just laugh battle, the dumpster for said and we gave her this candy bar things that would make her gain weight. Turned her best friends against her and then Katie. You know my friend, Katie Shia. She made out with jeans, boyfriend, and then convinced him to break up with her. Oh God, we foot cream instead of face. Guy. I am so sorry bridging really. Did IT I. Guess It's probably because I've got a big. Crush on you. So this hunt for leakers as put some White House staffers on edge with multiple officials, telling axios that meadows has been unusually vocal about his tactics so far he's got only one person for a minor leak. Trump has made clear to meadows that an important part of his job is to find the leakers, a wickedly difficult task that has plagued all three of meadows, predecessors. Trump is especially furious about to reason leaks of classified sensitive information I the politico. Information that Russians were paying Taliban bounties to kill American soldiers and trump was enraged when the New York Times reported the Secret Service rushed him down to the bunker during the protest outside the White House. He was fuming over. Those two stories wanted to know where they leaked from. So far meadows has yet to deliver on either of those high priority. Leak hunts so interesting that you hate it. When the Shit you actually did gets reported on, that's it. That's your bummer. Hate being held accountable. And you have another story for us right I. Do yeah, so. This is another frustrating story. There's confirmed reporting coming out that a fifteen year old has been. Sent back to juvenile detention in the middle of the COVID pandemic because she violated her probation, but the reason that was given was that her violation of probation entailed her, not doing her homework. That's literally it. She did nothing else the judge in this case, so she had originally this is this happened? In Michigan? She hit originally got incarcerated in May for for violating her probation. For sarnoff originally, she wound up getting incarcerated may for violating that probation by not completing her online coursework before what she had originally gotten in trouble for was fighting and stealing, and so heard the judge that overseas her case her name is. Name Judge Mary Ellen Brennan so she said that. She found grace as her name guilty on failure to submit any schoolwork and getting up for school, and she called grace a threat to the community, citing those previous assault and theft charges that led to her being incarcerated in the first place She went on to say she hasn't fulfilled the expectation with regard to school performance. I told her she was on thin ice and I told her that I was going to hold her to the letter to the order of the probation show. You have a kid who was already. Punished for her. Previous actions. Waza winds a you know going home being on probation in the middle of the pandemic, and then doesn't do her fuck and homework. She also has adhd, and it's just not an ideal learning environment for anybody you know, and it's certainly not something that should the fact that it's been criminalized is just the most blatant example of the court systems dedication to preserving that school to prison pipeline that we talked about. It's disgusting that she is using not doing schoolwork as an excuse to send this person back to jail and also. The justification she uses for sending her back is the things that she did initially that she had already like done time for like. How do you even how do you even do that? How are you even allowed to say? Hey, you're in trouble for doing this thing for not doing your fucking work, but I'm I'm deeming you like a menace to society because of the things you already did and were punished for. It doesn't make any sense to me and it also. Also goes against something Governor Gretchen. Whitmer had issued an executive order about back in March which temporarily suspended the confinement of juveniles who violate probation, unless directed by court order, and encouraged eliminating any form of attention or residential placement, unless a young person posed a substantial, an immediate safety risk to other, so I guess is judges trying to say that grace poses that substantial and immediate safety risk to others again for the crimes that she did that she had paid for. So. I hope that there's action around this. And that you know you know this isn't the only case of something like this happening. The whole juvenile detention system I can't even believe it exists. It's like. It is so overused and so. A tool to just incarcerate black youth from a young age, and it's really really fucking sad, and it fucked me up. Reading that story today. Yeah, it's that. Pipeline to prison shit that we've seen for decades and decades and decades. Now, thank you for sharing that. I have some late breaking news from CNN. Justice Ruth. Bader Ginsburg was just admitted to the Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore early this morning treatment of a possible infection. She was initially evaluated by Sibley Memorial. Hospital in Washington, DC last night, after experiencing fever and chills went an endoscopic procedure at Johns Hopkins this afternoon to clean out of bile duct stent that was placed last August. Justice Ruth Bader. GINSBURG is resting comfortably. She'll stay in the hospital for a few days to receive intravenous antibiotic treatment. We'll keep you posted on that and also today. The White House is unveiling its new messaging to respond to the devastating job loss. Fifty million people are out of work due to trump's disastrous mismanagement of the cove outbreak in the united. States their new messages. If you've lost your job, just quote, try something new. Unquote. Try something new. That's there. which makes no sense if you think about it, because if everybody's out of work, and there's only a few people hiring or you going to hire the person that doesn't have any experience or the hundreds and hundreds of people who do that are looking for that job. I mean it's. It's absolutely the most ridiculous, and it's the stupidest thing. I've I've heard so many people. We talked about this yesterday. Five million plus people five point, nine million people have lost their insurance because we tie in this country insurance health insurance to employment, which we should not do either, so it's creating A. There's this massive snowball effect going on here. This new messaging is from the same brilliant strategists that brought you such classics as live with it in response to the US being the global hotspot for the pandemic and Testing Causes Covid in response to the record number of cases, which is well over sixty thousand day now. And if that weren't enough, trump has ordered hospitals now to bypass the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and beginning Wednesday send all corona virus patient information to a central database in Washington a move that has alarmed public health experts, who fair the doubt it will be distorted for political gain. Yeah, it will. The new instructions are contained in a little notice. Document posted this week for the Department of Health and Human Services Website from now on HHS and not the CDC will collect daily reports about the patients that each hospital is treating how many beds and ventilators are available and other information vital to tracking the pandemic? News the change came as a shock inside the CDC, which has long been responsible for gathering public health data, and that's according to two officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss it. A spokesman for the disease control centres referred questions to the Department of Health and Human Services which has not responded to a request for comment. this dispute exposes the vast gaps in the government's ability to collect manch health data, which an antiquated system at best. That's according to experts. And? That's news from under the radar, so we'll be right back with a discussion about stones commutation with Joyce White Vance where you can listen to me, change my mind on whether Moore should testify before the Senate judiciary when I'm provided with new information, scandalous change in beans is right on the other side of this break. Stay with us. These MRI Jeez. Everybody. It's Today's episode of daily beans is brought to you by better help. If there's something that's interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals, I recommend trying better help better help want you to start living happier life today. Better help is not a crisis line. 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Listeners get ten percent off your first month. That's better help. Dot Com slash daily beans. All right everybody welcome back joining me today to discuss her new opinion piece about the commutation of Roger Stone's sentence in USA Today Is University of Alabama law professor, former US attorney on MSNBC contributor choice Vance Joyce. It's so good to talk to you again. Thanks for speaking with me today. It's always good to be wicky so choice in this piece that you wrote you call the commutation, a win for trump in stone, but a terrible loss for the rule of law in American justice. Can you explain that I think this commutation is unprecedented because of the president's personal involvement in the situation that led to the crimes zone with convicted of? And we all know this right this rocket science I mean we all get the concept that nobody should be able to pardon someone to keep them from testifying against them, and that's essentially what trump has done here with a little twist, this commutation, not a pardon, which is a very clever effort to keep some aggressive prosecutor from pudding stone into grand jury, and and compelling his testimony. Testimony which can't have happened absentee granted immunity to him, with his case still on a so that sort of a little bit of Legal Mumbo jumbo at the end, but the bottom line here is that the President Win Roger. Stone is not in in prison. The president can sleep easy knowing that stone doesn't have a massive inventive to go to law enforcement and offer to cooperate. And the rule of law and American citizens. The Kids Wheaton. Learn the trade and that after all is what the criminal justice system is about, it's about finding the truth and imposing accountability, one hundred percent and I also along that track I wanted to thank you in this piece for pointing out. The very deliberate language in Bob Muller's response, which was published in The Washington Post I was very surprised. I. We don't expect him to to speak up very often or very forcefully, but more specifically. The deliberate language in his statement that quote the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts. Why is that important that statement? Well I think I as you point out. It's surprising that Moeller spoke up. Understand for him to do that. He's only done it one or two other times. Only when he believed that the truth was being tortured beyond tolerable limits, and so here, when the president made his statements, and made the commutation, condemning the work that was done by prosecutors more felt the need, the compelling need to speak up, and because there was clear evidence that stone with conveying of. About Russian activities intended to intrude on the outcome of our election, and but he was communicating about to trump. And it was stones, perjury stones efforts to keep witnesses from testifying stones. Participation in efforts decided designed to obstruct justice. That kept more from having an indictable case. And, so I think all too often. Molar is sort of demonized for having not been strong. But more played by the rules motor acted like we live in a democracy where the rules mowder, and after all that. How do you how to act if do want there to still be rules at the end of the day more faith that the American democracy was strong enough to weather, even Donald Trump and that I think makes his decision to speak up here in the Washington Post all the more compelling. One, hundred percent and I wanted to also ask you because you know along these lines of you know it's important. That rozier stone. We know that Roger Stone obstructed large swaths of this investigation, which is again why he was convicted one of one of the charges of his conviction, but Andrew Weisman one of the lead prosecutors is apparently writing a book where he is saying we could have done more, but you discuss in this piece here. We knowstone was a key figure in the Russia. Investigation and Muller had said stone quote communicated in two thousand, sixteen with individuals known to be Russian intelligence officers, and he claimed advanced knowledge of wikileaks release of email stolen by those Russian intelligence officers. Why why is that? Important, when weighing why Muller wasn't able to prove conspiracy, and do you think? Do you agree with Andrew? Weisman that they could have done more. I mean we you and I talked about. They should subpoena trump and bring him in in. Depose him but I mean just here, and there are some quote. Unquote mistakes made by the Mueller investigation. So I haven't read. Andrews Book Yet I. Don't know what his argument will be, and if he believes that they made mistakes and could have gone further. One! Possibility that we all I think need to be sensitive to is the trump administration was so unprecedented, and everyone goes into a new administration with some trepidation, but also with some willingness to cut folks slack early on. At the point in time, where Bob Mower took over this investigation and people came on board. People didn't know what we know today about the trump administration and its willingness to be utterly lawless. And so some of the decisions that were made early on. We're decisions that would have been made. In a presidency that it's not a normal presidency would least within the parameters of what we expect even from a quote, unquote bad presidency. No one realized the extremes to which this president we go to obstruct justice, and so I'll be very interested to see what Andrew. How to say the DOJ Standard Brin dieting cases. Do you have to have sufficient evidence to obtain a conviction and to sustain that means to get a jury verdict, and to have the conviction stand up on appeal and the college a couple years down the road. Road is really very important piece of that, particularly with the president is the defendant I think? A lot of people want to sort of armchair jockey for for Bob Mueller, but I said at the time and I'll continue to say that I'm willing to trust his decision. I think he perhaps misplaced faith in Congress's willingness to pick up the mantle and fulfill its Article One obligation to impeach. I, agree with that but I wanted to ask about all of Roger Stone's other crimes, the ones that weren't. Charged a of people seem to be thinking that. Oh they could be charged later. They might be charged in a new administration. I don't know that that's necessarily the case but those charges weren't brought. And I think at what is saying pretty deliberately in the piece that he wrote, was that he he didn't because of the obstruction they weren't able to. Do. You agree with that. The answer is it's hard to know. Know for certain, but I tend to agree in the moment record. itself more said that they decisions that he had made. were often compelled by the fact that they had had great difficulty. Getting evident people lie to them. People withheld evidence. People destroyed evidence. People store evidence outside of the country. And he said it fad had access to information that was withheld. They might have used the fact differently than they did. So we don't know who he's referring to there. Any number of possibilities of you know a person or multiple people who could have engaged in doubt sort of obstructive conduct the fact that they actually indicted stone for. A Con- conduct across the board involves obstruction a poster, just the specific charge of obstruction that seems to indicate that he's within that group of folks, yeah, and another thing that religious kind of stuck in my craw. Is Trump's assertion that stone and others like Flynn and Manafort and you bring this up in your piece. Only committed quote process based crimes, and do you think he's been successful? Trump has in minimizing that those crimes actually strike at the core of our justice system. They're very important charges. Some of the more important charges at least I think has seen in the eyes of judges and people who work in the system. Trump is so very good at getting people to adopt his bumper stickers and his slogans. I wish you was. Good at governing as he is confusing people and misleading people. He was successful with this. You'll remember that. There was outrage early on in the Mueller investigation charges, involving perjury and obstruction I started. Being bandied about for different people in trump's inner circle, and very early on trump seized on this notion that they were just crossed US crimes. You know people didn't really know what that meant. Non Lawyer is probably a lot of lawyers didn't know what it meant, but it sounded good. If it's just process, maybe it's not very substantive. And of course, nothing could be further from the truth as prosecutors have explained until we're all doing the faith. Face these crimes whether it's obstruction of justice whether it's perjury whether it's lying to FBI ankle. These are all crimes that go to the integrity of the justice system, and they too can be really difficult crimes to prove because you have to have specific statements. You have to have intent. To? Be knew that they were false or intended to obstruct. But the reality is that our criminal justice system cannot work. If prosecutors and investigators are unable to find the truth so if people don't comply with subpoenas. Why where if people threaten other witnesses to keep them out of court? These are way and serious, serious legal offensive, and for the president to suggest otherwise signals to us now and should have signaled to us at the time. Fully irresponsible. He was that for him. This has always been about self preservation, not about governing exactly. It's like when he said. I didn't I didn't obstruct justice. I was just punching back. I was just standing up for myself. It's kind of the same sort of subversion of the rule of law. that's such a perfect example that statement. Yeah, and I remember that stuck out to me. as well and finally we know, Lindsey. Graham is now saying a go ahead, Muller, you can testify now. He's been blocking it this whole time in the Senate Judiciary Committee Do you think molar should come in and answer questions? I mean now that he's sort of free to. To talk about the stone case since it's not open an ongoing or I mean a lot of people have mixed feelings about this well. The Stan case is still ongoing. The conviction itself is on appeal molar is actually don't work for you to talk about. It I don't see any reason that he has to come as he has repeatedly said the report and the. Product of the report speaks for itself. It seems to me that this timing is perhaps more to create a side. In advance of the election that it's more about politics than it is about prosecution Lindsey Graham as a former prosecutor should have more sense than that I. think that we've learned. Unfortunately, he doesn't yeah. We have learned that that's really good to know. I thought that. Since you know, we had a unredacted, a bunch of the stone information, the mole report that he'd be free to discuss it, but I guess you're saying that because the case is now under appeal, it is still open and ongoing well. I think that's fair. He could talk about unredacted hearts of the report, but as far as details of the prosecution go I I would not wanNA have. An investigator or prosecutor discussing that while it was still on appeal with the possibility of new trial coming up because anything that he says could be used by stone down the road to argue for for prejudice or other sorts of. Air, and so if I was still apartment and the lawyer advising Moore I'd say you know. Let till Senator Graham. You'll come. At the appropriate time, but this isn't tip Yeah, the same reason that he didn't say trump was Aligarh or criminal so that he didn't You know taint future prosecutions office. I did love when Ken Buck asked. If the president could be, could try to. You know prosecuted after he leaves office and Muller Surprise The hell out of him with a Yes, I, mean you know it's a difficult situation? And I think maybe without passing over this. We should make the coins explicitly. Everybody's gone to their corner. Everybody's onto their side on these issues and people use an attitudes are baked in, and what has kept this country of flow for so long as the fact that we've all agreed no matter what was going on in the moment, it was worth keeping the country of at the end, so we've never dealt with issues in a way that was. Was So divisive that we couldn't move forward together after they were ogre, even during Watergate even during Iran Contra this was always how we functioned as a nation and so Bob Muller is old school in the sense that he believes that you have to play by the rules. If you still want there to be game left to play at the end when it's over. But concern is that there are some folks on the other side who are just willing to burn it all down and you know this is going to be difficult for people to accept down the road that we still have to treat fairly and play by the rules with people who did and I. Think this is a very dangerous place for the country to be in. In there will be difficult issues if Joe. Biden wins in November involving. You might get prosecuted and what four so we're headed into I. Think a very difficult time for our democracy. The I think it might upset a lot of people if we kept quiet, kept our secrecy on kept our game face in in these proceedings, and to no end I would be. Next year I think everyone would be happy with with the level of. I guess holding back the cautiousness of the Mueller investigation, and those around him and those in the intelligence community. If it bore fruit so we'll see, we'll see how it ends up, and of course the ultimate fruit that it could bear that I would hope it would bear would be exposing Russia's efforts to interfere in our elections and having an administration that was committed to telling Russia, no, you can't do this and to putting resources that were necessary into protecting election to publicly striking back I. Do a president who won't shake? Putin didn't take it soccer ball. Soccer by definitely think we'll have that if we go out and vote in numbers too big to manipulate this November University of Alabama, law professor formulas, attorney and MSNBC Contributor Joyce Vance. Joyce tell everyone where they can find you. Well I'm on twitter at Joyce light dance, and I write periodically or the different online platforms, including time and this piece out today with USA Today and next time we get together. We're definitely have to talk about your baby chickens. I've promised people so. They're so sweet. We should've spent the whole hour talking about the peach. peeps all the POD, peeps. I absolutely love it. adorable next time we'll podcast with the peace keeping in the background beautiful I. Look Forward to it thing. And coming up next as we reported yesterday, Lindsey Graham has given the thumbs up for Bob Mueller to testify to the Senate judiciary. We'll be right back with Glenn Kirschner to find out why he more shouldn't testify, so stay with us. A, friends edgy here. This daily beans is brought to you by our sponsor carshield these days, computer systems rule our cars, and they are essential from electrically. Controlled transmissions and touchscreen displays to dozens and dozens of sensors, but you can't fix any of those new features herself anymore not like back in eighties could crawl into the to my truck into my Ford F to fifty with a wrench and screwdriver fixed, whatever was wrong so now if something breaks, it costs a fortune, and now is not the time for expensive repairs dealing with tech related. Related car stuff is huge pain. Personally I had to fix the displaced rescreen recently, and it cost me a small fortune and affected multiple systems in my car repairs took forever. That's why I have carshield I love. The carshield understands that payment flexibility is essential. They have monthly plans that can be customized to fit your needs. 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Hey everybody, welcome back, so we just talked to Joyce and she thinks that Bob Muller probably. There's no reason for him to testify joining me today to discuss this further as former federal prosecutor and MSNBC Contributor Glenn. Kirschner Glenn as you know. We recently learned Lindsey Graham is now totally cool. With having Bob Muller testified to Congress where he previously had blocked it considering Muller You know I had thought. Thought Muller would now be free to discuss the stone case. That doesn't seem like that's quite true, and you don't think he should testify. Can you tell us why sure so you know? First of all Bob Muller? Was My supervisor at the US Attorney's office in Washington DC I. Mean you know it's really interesting to me that before he came to our office in Nineteen ninety-five to try murder cases he. When he was with us, he was aligned guy or line Gal. He went into court every day tried murder cases and mind you. This is after he had been the US Attorney in Massachusetts the assistant. Attorney General for the entire criminal. Division nominated by George. Bush, and confirmed by the Senate having supervised things like the Noriega Prosecution and the John Gotti. Prosecution then said you know what I just WanNa. GO BE A. Prosecutor in Washington. DC, so he came all the way back down to the line with the rest of us. And he then not long after coming to our office, he ended up being chief of homicide. When are then US attorney Eric, holder need chief, and he became my supervisor so for a couple of years I work day in day out with Bob learned from him how to be a homicide prosecutor learned how to run the homicide section of job. I took over a few years after he left I'm bias. I find it hard to criticize Bob Muller. I also have a clear eyed view of I. Think the situation and the man Bob bobbies. So, here's my take on it. and I'm sorry for the long preamble. Now, so Bob was the single best strongest, most supportive and most demanding supervisor I ever worked for. But you know he was never found public speaking. He's a man of few words. You go into his office and you're going to get. Yes, no, do it now. Get Out I I added to get out part. He was very like so as we could all see I think during his first appearance before Congress he's not a comfortable public speaker, it's not something he ever sought out more importantly. you know even back. When was the director of the FBI a position? He took a few years after leaving the US Attorney's office. In DC you can go back and look at his old congressional appearances. Even you know. Decades ago, he was not a comfortable public speaker but the my my concern is that when I saw? I speak publicly as special counsel, which was after issued his report I. Think it would after Ag Bar lied about his findings and conclusions to the American people mischaracterizing what Muller found spitting report in order to protect the president. Bob Mother of course spoke out about that in writing, but he also gave a short press conference, and when I saw him speak my heart sunk, and this is the elephant in the room that not a lot of people are willing to to about, but you know his communicative abilities were still so so degraded as compared to how he used to communicate. He's obviously struggling with some sort of health issues. That came through I. Think in his congressional appearance as special counsel. You know sh if you'll remember, there was a whole lot of waiting between the time. Is Report came out and the time he finally came in and testified, and people got very frustrated. Why isn't he coming in and speaking out? Well once he began testifying, you could see why he struggled. His memory was failing at times. He was not a strong communicator, and unfortunately his work didn't speak for itself which it should have, this report should have spoke for itself, which is exactly what he said when he first stood up and spoke publicly, he said my report is my testimony. He didn't want to testify and he certainly didn't want to go beyond the four corners of his report, so when he did testify, it was not a compelling performance, and unfortunately you know in this day and age of everybody's gotTa look good on prime time. TV itself flap in my opinion. Opinion not the substance of it for God's sakes volume one you found sweeping, insist matic interference by the Russians and he in the two thousand sixteen election, and he found the trump campaign that was entirely willing and welcoming that nefarious interference, and then volume two. When you read it, you can reach one conclusion. He also found sweeping and systematic obstruction of justice by Donald trump to cover up his crimes and to misdirect the special counsel's investigation. So when Bob Muller issued that report he he, he did two things one. He referred impeachment. charges to Congress and Congress failed. Failed us because they did not impeach Donald Trump based on what we're up to ten federal felony obstruction of justice offensive meticulously documented by Bob, Muller instead what Congress do. They gave him a longer leash and put him on a longer lead, so he could I don't know. Go out and bride presidents, Alinsky with congressional money to try to get Celeski to announce a bogus investigation into Joe Biden trump's political opponent. So that's what he got impeached for. Had they done at Congress? Done what it should have done and impeached him based on the Muller Report. We probably would not. Not Be where we are today, but Congress failed us the second thing Mother did with with his report was he gave us a blueprint for Donald Trump's prosecution come January plain and simple and I. Only hope that the next administration doesn't fail the American people by declining to prosecute trump and all of the other political criminals that we've been living with for the past few years. I don't believe Bob's testimony if he were called again before the Senate Judiciary Committee would add anything to the mix, but it would hurt. I think the cause in a couple of ways one. People would you know it would give Donald trump a talking point at all. They're just trying to retreaded. Rehash the old Russian hoax inch. You see they have nothing else. They have to fall back on. What has already failed now that will resonate with trump's ever dwindling base for what it's worth, and the other thing is I suspect Bob Muller is probably you know he? He probably continues to struggle with whatever health condition you know caused his performance. Performance to fall so flat, and be so unconvincing, and I hate to say these kind of things, but it's the truth. When I saw Bob testified he was not the same person that I worked for fifteen or twenty years earlier, and I fear that his condition has only worsened and I. Don't think it serves any purpose by putting him back under you know back under oath back in front of the cameras only to have to struggle again. As let me tell you my thought process on this because it's changed seventy six times. Based on new information isn't that weird? When you get new information, you can change your position. On the supposed to work right and. See I I for one personally care more about the future prosecutions integrity than what trump and his base think I'm like fuck them but my first position on this last July was he should testify. Get not not because he's going to give us any new information, but he's going to get it on television right? Just get it out their own on TV. And for this time. I, said Heck. Yes, he should testify when you know when Lindsey Graham gave his son thumbs up this week. and mainstream media be damned for their characterization of him as having no possess or new razzle-dazzle but. You know and the reason I wanted wanted. That was because I thought A. Only that because the stone case is over that, he would be free to talk about things. He wasn't free to talk about last. July many of the many of the things he couldn't talk about. Because of harming ongoing matter, open an ongoing investigation. but Joyce. Vance just informed me that because the case is under appeal and because of other potential crimes that Roger Stone could be prosecuted for later. That! You don't want to taint. You don't want to give prejudicial. appeals ability to any future prosecution against Roger, stone or the president himself so now I'm back in the camp after having found out that he can't discuss those things still even though they're unredacted in the Muller, report. Now I'm back with with y'all for. For, different reasons, but. You know now I tend to to agree I mean it's a very like why why at this point? Because it's not going to nothing he says is going to get trump out any sooner than we. When we vote him out and we have to do it in numbers too big to manipulate. You know what I mean so like why run the risk of putting them up there and have Lindsey? Pummeled with Obama Gate questions. You know it just now. It seems to me. Over the last Oh. Gosh! Thirty minutes that you're you're right. It's probably about idea. Yeah, and I think you know my belief. All along was that when Bob Muller said when he first stood up and spoke publicly. Special Counsel that ten minute press conference in which he took no questions, he said. My report is my testimony and I agree with joystick unfortunately, because Roger Stone had his sentence commuted and he wasn't pardoned. He still has a privilege, and he says he's still fighting his conviction. Factly you retain since right to appeal his conviction even if he doesn't from you know his cushy home, rather go to jail cell. Is So bob. Muller wouldn't go into. Those matters. Put Bob, Muller. says. My report is my testimony. Even if he was free to venture into other areas, I'm not sure he would do it I. Think he would've said listen folks I told you once. You can call me eighteen times in front of Congress. My report is by customer, so don't think we would have you know. Even setting aside the Roger, stone, Privilege Show I. Don't think we would have gotten anything more out of Bob Baller so really I think for every conceivable reason. There's there's no. There's no good can come of it and there's plenty of bad that can come up because you know as you just said they will turn it into. A an absolute circus, a dog and pony show asking irrelevant questions to try to either make Bob. Look bad or get more disinformation into the public square so right now what we get to do is vote in numbers too big to rake. And then we get to begin investigating indicting prosecuting every last flippin political criminal that has just completely. Disrespected disregarded demoralized America and the American people for the last three and a half years. Yeah, I can tell you. A lot of people are upset with the previous handling of the Muller investigation the current. You know wondering why he doesn't come out, and just you know say Donald Trump lied to me. He's a criminal We've you know we've. We've talked about what Bob Mueller said specifically about his report saying he doesn't want to. To Taint Future Investigations and Congress needs to do its job which they didn't, but I think what will truly upset a lot of people is that with all the patients and not talking and secrecy and going by the book that next year. If that if that doesn't bear fruit, in you know in the in the form of you know indictments prosecutions I think people I think people will look back and be upset. At the! Level of not speaking out although Andrew. Weisman is writing a book in September, and he says that the the investigation made some mistakes. We don't know what in what context he's talking about, but. I think it's really really important. That Joe Biden is committed to going after these cases because we have. Otherwise, it seems like it's all for not yeah, and you know. I was involved with lots of investigations of my thirty uses prosecutor in every single one one. I'm sure I made some mistakes I know I made mistakes, so it's not surprising that Weisman would say that. You know what you want, somebody to testify. I Dunno Weizman is the right person. Get somebody who was intimately involved in the investigation. Who has you know the sort of the force of personality and of conscience, and you know the backbone in the will to give it to these people, these these senators straight, and you know, let's let that person testified instead of Bob Muller, if you. You want anybody to testify but you know some people say you sent Bob Muller in you, know you send a boy scout to do hit man's job and I understand that because Bob is the king of circumspection. Maybe to his own, you know maybe maybe to a fault sometimes, but if you start sending hit men in to do the job of our republic, then everybody's going to end up being killed at the end of the day. We need boy scouts to continue to abide by the rules. Even when the other side doesn't and we did have the Linski testify about you know the the pressure that was put on him in In the Department of Justice and so you know it's I think. And, what did it? Do you know I mean I hate to? I hate to be like a Downer because I'm never that, but we're not all up in arms, and you know demanding another impeachment it's it's just all about getting the truth out there to arm the citizenry with. Facts so that they vote. So, that they vote your well. I, just hope I, hope that that. Biden who has already gone on record as saying they will not be a party to donald trump I hope he creates the trump crimes commission and I hope we see the trump trials, and I hope it is as far reaching as Nuremberg trials, because these people have done everything they can to destroy repub Republican. They need to be held accountable come January. And if he doesn't I think that just SORTA shits all over Muller's. Keep raining in and that would that would upset me greatly and. I hope that that that it doesn't go that way. You all right well. Thanks so much How almost thirty years of Experience Federal Prosecution? and. MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR Glenn Kirschner. Where can people find you? You're doing this awesome Youtube Crime Day thing and people need to get on. That train will tell us where it is somewhat youtube channel is just money, Glenn Kirschner and you'll see the banner justice coming I. Put up a video every day. The the trump crime do shore or the bill bar. Abuse of law does your or I actually had to take a little side detour into. into you know Betsy Devos. IDs, timber, child death march bath, the school, so I try to call out the administration on all of their crimes and corruption, but I would need about a hundred and twenty four hours in a day to squeeze it all the. Please go to YouTube. It's just my name. Glenn Kirschner, and if you can subscribe I, greatly appreciate it now. How about that Dan? Bash to? She just wouldn't let her. Off. I loved it. It was great. Art Well. Thanks so much. It was great talking to you. Everybody stick around. We'll be right back with Jordan Coburn and the good news blocks stay with us. Hey friends it's and helping daily beans is brought to you by sun basket like any rational normal person I've been social distancing working from home, reducing unnecessary trips out, and if you're like me and you're trying to avoid crowded grocery stores right now I recommend touring. Sundance gets basket delivers healthy, delicious meal straight to your door, and it is a perfect tasty solution for these Cova Times Sun Basket has amazing recipes for all kinds of dietary preferences including. Paleo, gluten, free Mediterranean Vegetarian and more they make it easy and convenient. Everything is preportion ready to prep and cook. You can enjoy a dinner full of organic produce and clean ingredients in as little as fifteen minutes. 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Go right now to sun basket dot com slash daily beans and enter Promo Code daily beans checkout for thirty five dollars off your order that sun basket dot com slash daily beans and enter Promo Code Daily Beats. All right, everybody welcome back. Thanks for sticking with us. It is time for the good news. And joining me today for the good news is Jordan Coburn Jordan. How's it going? Hey, good the same. Good the same. we have a lot of good news today. So why don't you kick us off? Shirts so our first piece of good news comes from enjoy on twitter. Joy posted a link from a license for Science Dot Cornell Dot Edu. It's a link to the Cornell University Science blog about how the pandemic is unlocking a lot of Africa's research potential like the development of covid. Test that only cost dollar turns out. Many areas are experienced in knowing how to handle outbreaks if deadly viruses and Africa's so there's a lot of scientific. Scientific infrastructure in place for this particular pandemic. Here's a quote from the article. African scientists work has progressed despite infrastructure limitations including the lack of proper laboratories and equipment for research, one country that has demonstrated the ability to rise to the challenges, Senegal which is developed some of the world's most affordable corona virus, testing kits and three D. printed ventilators et Senegal laboratory developed at one dollar test kit and sixty dollars ventilator using. It's experience in dealing with HIV AIDS and he bullet outbreaks. Thank you so much for sharing that joy. That's That's like. One of those. positive outcomes that comes from a really shitty situation that they've been forced into dealing with such horrifying pandemics with not enough support, not enough outside support and having the conditions for those pandemics to spread as widely in his intensely as they do there, but that's amazing that they've that they've done that in. Thank you so much for sharing that. Maybe we can re post on twitter or something, so people can read that. Yes, thank you very much for sharing that from joy. And next up from Chris Pronouns he him, my friend volunteered for the CO vaccine trial that the UK is running. Things are apparently still going very well though she doesn't know if she got the active shot or not as someone who she who is shielding and has only been able to leave the house four times in the past four months. I'm really grateful to people like her. Who are volunteering away that I cannot as a side note and I'm sure I'm not sure. If plugs are allowed, she'd be a great person to have on your podcast. If you wanted a view of what's happening on this side of the pond. Her name is Kate Smith weight. And she's got a great comic and feminist activist. She's a great comic and feminist activist. Among other things. She's at crew. L. One on twitter. That's cool. Move definitely. Give her a fall seriously. Yes, that's very cool. Yeah, I have such reverend like. So much respect for the scientists that are all hands decker now in the people that Kate. That are jumping into help. next up from anonymous. Pronounce she her. Hello, msw I've been a listener since the Mueller days. I imagine that's a reference spelled emmy w Dash Elliara, so yeah, that's got to be a reference to how he recalling Muller Mueller. For. The first three episodes, or whatever yeah, yeah, and never I never miss an episode. I am in E. D. R. N. at a Level One trauma center in a current hot zone, and it is crazy and sad and scary. People look at raw numbers, but they don't tell the story of what's going on in the inside. I haven't seen this many patients. This sick in my twelve plus years plus having to keep these patients. Patients for sometimes days in the ED instead of quickly being able to send them to. The ICU is just draining onto the good news. One of our amazing physician assistants got a small care package from a friend, and it meant everything to her to know someone was thinking about her, so she started gift box with items curated specifically for healthcare frontline workers is include stuff like badge holders, candles, water bottles, etc, it's called Honeybee. Honeybee giving you can go to www dot, honeybee, giving dot, com, or at Honeybee giving on instagram. You can buy a box for someone specific in your life, or you can donate a box. It is a wonderful way to say. Thank you I'm so amazed at people who find the time to do these types of things and put something positive out there on top of everything else going on I could barely shower on my. My days off. This woman is so happy and positive all the time of CO workers and great with patients, hopefully getting her. Some traffic is very least I can do to help. Even if you can't donate or don't have a healthcare worker to buy four. Just follow on instagram and sharing would be amazing. PS. Jordan's reaction to learning new things is everything. There should be a compilation mix. It makes all the badness melt away. It's a lot of what. What. That's so great I'm GonNa do that. I'm going to go. I'M GONNA, go buy one and Doni one right after we finish this. Thank you so much head to again. WWW dot honeybee, giving dot com. Nice awesome, thank you. Next up from Anna pronouns she her some good news for the progressive world. My name is Anna, and my boyfriend is running for the House of Representatives and Kansas a real grassroots movement. The campaign is fairly underfunded and understaffed as we are just mid twenties, college kids he is, he's in Graduate School for Political Science at Ku, and also help teach the introductory politics. Class name is James. Win Holtz Win Hallet's. And he's pushing hard for the green new deal nationalized healthcare in major justice and economic reform, really reform of all kind to say that I'm excited for him as an understatement, he's running against the mayor of Topeka. Kansas Michele della es la in the Democratic primary on August fourth in our state, second congressional district. Whoever wins that would probably take on incumbent Steve Watkins a corrupt. Republican has been under scrutiny for illegal campaign contributions. From Minneapolis Minnesota and after George Floyd was murdered. We went up there to help. Distribute an a district aid supplies. We raised money and people donate stuff here in Kansas to bring a bring us up there. Are Two donated stuff in Kansas to bring up there. I feel so grateful to have the ability to do something for my communities, even though it's small and I'm only twenty two. I have loved politics government. Since I was a kid, I grew up with an extremely left ring, father, loyal to MSNBC. That's probably why. I love motto so much. If not more than AG, although I have proven better at history than politics, it's been a learning experience for me. None the less I cannot wait to see what happens and watch him. Pull the party left. Because God knows we need more Socialist Democrats get involved in your local government. You guys. It's worth it and we'll make you. You're like minded. You will make like minded friends along the way, and it will bring you closer to the systems. We've established to service. Thank you so much. Yeah, twenty two. That's incredible. Anna wonderful and. Shout out to James Wind it's. For running against that income hopefully wins that primary and gets to run against that criminal incumbent you. Yeah! That is so bad ass. Brave and I find that ran for city council a few years ago, and that was such a cool process to watch him go through it, and he didn't wind up winning the seat, but it was like so inspirational and everything he got relatively close considering he was just. You know a young person in a relatively historically like older district and I love that. Thank you for sharing that and I hope people are considering running for local offices, because if not you is going to be some other shitty person that's going to go in and do crap job and ruin everything, so you know, think about it maybe. Next up from Debbie Pronoun she her I'm so happy after living in Rhode Island for six years to earn a Ph, D Brown University, my son is moving back to Colorado to take a job as a data analyst with Boulder County I. Already thought I was fortunate to be able to work from home through these pandemic times, but now I truly feel the luckiest person on the planet yesterday Debbie. That's so rad. Who Yes? Anka Grassy your son, forgetting that PhD that's dope man. Everything just worked out. Everything just worked out for your whole family. It seems or at least you youtube for now right now in life. Yeah, good job. Six years as good mind took seven or eight, so yeah, high five. Yeah, totally. Thank you Debbie next Jodi in Canada she her. Good news slash confession. I love these good new slash confessions. The good news is that my province has had. Not had a new case of cove in thirteen days, and we only have one person left considered active. If our street colds, the whole province will be cove free for a bit anyway. We're very proud of our chief provincial public health officer and chief nursing officer who have led us to this point confession. I feel horribly guilty about being happy about this. Because so many are suffering I feel bad about getting my haircut. Haircut enjoying my pontoon boat on my leg and being able to see some friends in a small bubble, because I know so many cannot I feel like I can't really talk about anything. I'm doing to people outside my province particularly outside. Canada because I don't want to gloat my messages to those in different in a different situation. Is that science works? If you really follow the guidelines, you can get there as we did. I don't think you should feel guilty at all. You do the work you put in the work you know, but of course I think a lot of people who are struggling right now did put in the work, and it's those who chose to be assholes about it That screwed it up for everybody else, but honestly I I. I know how you feel. It's that survivor's guilt. It's that I. I WanNa talk about how much fun I am having, but. There's so many people who aren't I. I feel that I don't have I. Don't have the right answer for that I've you know we've never been in this kind of a situation? Everything so new? Yeah, definitely I mean I. Say talk about it for sure because first off, it brings hope to know that this is happening like any time. I hear about this, you know my first thought is always. Always like dope. Yes, let's get there. Let's get this shit gone. You know, and and as it's also proof that if you do the right thing like you said it works in the results are very profound, so I say talk about it talking about stuff I. Always opt for talking about things versus not talking about things, and and you know feeling I. Don't think you should feel guilty At all for talking about it so I, but I appreciate that you're contemplating that. okay. Finally from Phil Pranzi him for Jordan to read Nice. I can expect a lot of letters in these words Dear Ag. Jordan Amanda. I'm a huge fan of all three of you. I was falling asleep to your podcast before it was cool, but this good news is for Jordan in particular. But this is for Jordan in particular. I really hope that she has the opportunity to read it. Your hope is granted here. I am like many people have taken being stuck at home as an opportunity to try my handed gardening for the first time. It's been a real success so far everyone of my tomato pepper, and of course bean plants has begun bearing fruit. However, the real good news is that it has led me to meeting this little guy. See attached photo. Okay, the photo. Is An adorable. I imagine. Phil will go on to say exactly what kind of animal it is, but it looks Oh yes. Yes, perfect! Okay, here we go! It's adorable. This shit here we go. This is the first time in my life. This is the first time in my life that I had actually seen one in person I mean obviously I've seen the one co starring in that Bill Murray film, so this is a groundhog. His name is door, which of course makes him the headmaster of groundhog words? Yes, the other names I've considered where Norris think about it or simply chuck I, love that in parentheses. Think about it. Or simply chuck the advantage of that of the last option is that it would have allowed me to ask people how much of chuck the woodchucks would check. The would check could check if chuck. The woodchuck could Chuck Chuck. The woodchucks would yes. I now know why film wanted me to read that However I I realize. That I would still say it just by telling this story as I am doing right now and any case Dumbledore it is, he appears to have a burrow under my porch and I'm hoping a second one pops up so that he could be professor pomona sprout. All of this is obviously sign that one can stay physically isolated with minimal human contact for months on end without going completely round the bend. All three of you keep up the good work. You are a constant source of valuable information in needed comfort a real gift to the country all the best to you and yours Phil. Thank you so much for sending this adorable photo. and that is so sweet. You gotta right like A. You got to write a short story about your your your newfound friendship with groundhog with a Dumbledore I feel chuck. Yes, I feel you know it's only that's only a project that you could justify to yourself doing in quarantine befriending an animal and writing a story about it. That's If you feel inclined to write, a story will read it on the air. That's. Cutest, as Jeter, thank you so much Phil Yeah and that's Phil. Phil from Groundhog Day. Love it! All Right? Those are good news stories. thank you for sending the man if you WanNa send us your good news stories or your quarantine, confessions or ideas for the themes for are happy hour, meet and greet live streams on Fridays just had to daily beans pod dot. com and you know in the contact area there. You'll have a drop down menu for all the different things you can submit including corrections We had corrections clip today so Let us know what you think. And that's how we communicate and also follow us on twitter at Jelly Bean pod and at muller she wrote anything else Jordan and thoughts, no math today all right well, everybody. Until tomorrow, please take care of herself to take care of the planet and take care of your mental health. I've been AG AIBA Jordan. Coburn names the beans. The daily beans is executive produced and directed by AG and Jordan Coburn and engineered edited by Mackenzie. Mozelle and star Burns Industries are marketing manager executive assistant production. Social Media Direction Amanda Reader Fact Checking Research by AG Jordan Coburn and a reader. Our music is written and performed by they might be. Giants are web design and branding, or by Joel reader with moxy design studios, and our website is daily beans pod, dot com.

Donald Trump Bob Muller president Congress Roger Stone Lindsey Graham Geoffrey Berman USA Bob Mueller Washington DC White House Joyce White Vance Attorney DC San Diego Bob Prosecutor Justice Department prosecutor Andrew Weisman
U.S. attorney overseeing investigations of Trump allies dismissed

All In with Chris Hayes

46:01 min | 4 months ago

U.S. attorney overseeing investigations of Trump allies dismissed

"Tonight on all an American failure, the resurgent Corona virus and the negligent president who told his people to slow down testing? Did you ask to slow it down. If it did slow down frankly I. Think we're way ahead of ourselves tonight. More trump staffers test positive in Tulsa Texas and Florida raise alarms about the spread and their states and new evidence. The president's pandemic response is costing him with voters. Then what we still don't know about the botched firing of the man investing trump's inner circle, and what we now do know about the made up milkshake poisoning. When all in starts right now? Good. Evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes is there was a single place where you would think that the Weird Reality Distortion Field Donald trump work. It would be at a rally with his hardest of hardcore supporters, and we all thought that would be the case. It has campaign kickoff rally in Tulsa Oklahoma a deep red state over the weekend there were people lined up outside the arena. deason advance. You probably saw them on our air, the president and his team Brag that a million people. One million people requested tickets. We were all talking about how crushingly depressing. It was tens of thousands of people would be willing to put themselves at risk to attend this rally in the midst of a pandemic. But then they didn't. God bless the sensible decisions made by thousands of Donald Trump followers who apparently said you know what I'm going to go ahead and take a rain on this big potential super spreading event. The arena was not even half full. About Sixty two hundred people attended according to the Tulsa Fire Department in space that holds all nineteen thousand. A third. That's tough. New, York Times reports the president had been warned aboard Air Force One of the crowd. The Reno were smaller than expected and was stunned. Arrive the president reportedly yelled at AIDS backstage while looking at the endless rows of empty blue seats in the upper bowl of the stadium. The campaign was anticipating such a big crowd. They could built it overflow section outside and bragged about. There's GonNa be a stage where the president vice president were scheduled to speak, and then they tore the stage down before the president arrived because there was no one there. And this rally. That Sea of empty blue seats is the visual representation of the fact that the president of the United States cannot be s the corona virus away. He can't use his sales patter, and it's propaganda and his cutesy repetition or his twitter handle to spin it not even with his own most devoted supporters. For all his propaganda, most people remain worried about the pandemic and among the people who are most vulnerable seniors. The president is currently in polling ten points underwater in approve. He cannot just flap his lips and pretend that we're not in the midst of a goal pandemic, and a once in a lifetime calamity. In fact on Saturday just hours before the rally. We learned guess what members of Donald Trump's own advanced team on the ground in Tulsa, including secret service personnel tested positive for the virus. And then get this today. His own campaign announced Oh by the way to additional staffers. Who attended the rally? who were there in Tulsa also tested positive for the virus. From the beginning from the very beginning presence approach is been that the coronavirus outbreak is not a problem to be solved, but rather a perception to be managed the disease to his mind does not even really exist the only thing that are real or the numbers it produces, and the political ramifications of those numbers, which is why back in March as we started to see cases in the US. The president did not want to let passengers stuck on a cruise ship off. Dealing with the outbreak they won. Let them off the ship. He said that he liked the numbers. Being where there are. Keep them on the ship. Because then they're not my numbers. Then we were laggards, intesting internationally and people thought. Maybe, that isn't an accident. Maybe it is because the president does not want the numbers to go up like he said in front of the cameras, and then on Saturday night in Tulsa in front of six thousand people in a mostly empty stadium. He admitted as much. Testing is a double edged sword. We've tested now twenty five million people. You do testing to that extent. You're gonNA find more people. You're gonNA find more cases. So I sent him. My people slow the testing down, please. Slow the testing down, please. Testing is a double edged sword. No just one edge. It's the edge to fight the virus. It's not just. And then you get a chance to clean that admission up today and basically emitted it all over again. Would do so much testing twenty five million tests. Nobody thought, but did you ask to slow it down? If it did slow down. Frankly I think we're way ahead of ourselves. If you want to know the truth, we've done too good job. Way. Way Ahead of ourselves. He thinks testings the problem that if you don't test, there's no virus. It's past incompetence. It's malfeasance a negligence on an almost incomprehensible scale. There are hundred and twenty thousand dead Americans. And this attitude has led to the US looking like this like this compared to the you. We are going back up while everybody else is basically suppress the virus everyone in the world, except for one other country Brazil, where President Donald Trump's buddy goes around saying make Brazil great again and telling people the virus itself is nonsense, and everyone's going to get it, and basically overseeing a trump like disaster there as well. So, thanks to the US and Brazil world. You saw its worst day ever for new corona virus infections as recorded by the World Health Organization. In this country right now we have twenty three states going in the wrong direction we're cases are increasing. And one of the key measurements and we've talked about this before. The show released. The coronavirus. Infection is our. That's the average number of people who become infected by one infectious person, and if ours under one, every infected person infects less than one person. You're in good shape. If ours above one, you were in bad shape and right now ours above one in thirty one states. Being, the virus will spread quickly meaning we are in trouble. The numbers are looking especially troubling. Texas were seventy two percent of intensive care. Units in Dallas are currently occupied. This is what the seven day rolling average of new cases looks like in Harris County where Houston. That big spike on the right taking place over the last few days. Where do you think that's going to go? Where do you think that curve's going GONNA go? In Florida new cases hit yet another one day record high on Saturday today. The surgeon general there quietly issued an advisory recommending everyone where mass public. Arizona's governor also finally reversed his position on mass last week, and they hit another record high in hospitalizations today along with a big increase in cases. That the state by the way we're Donald. Trump is headed tomorrow. Phoenix or among other things he is slated to speak to people to Mega Church. The claims they have newly installed technology in the Church that kills ninety nine point nine percent of the coronavirus within ten minutes. I mean no wonder. No one wanted to come to this guy's top rally. More on the president's negligence on the coronavirus I'm joined by Senator Tammy Duckworth Democrat of Illinois senator. It's been fairly clear in the beginning. The president has said many times things that effectively were I. don't WanNa test because we will find cases that we find cases I'll look at and I don't WanNa. Look bad air go. Let's not test, but it striking that he has now essentially admitted that. While of course I mean the end you know. This is a problem Donald Trump for himself right? He says without thinking. Thinking, and in this case we see into the Road Donald Trump, and frankly he cares more about what testing numbers are than one hundred twenty thousand dead Americans, that's the president of the United States, he supposed to care about Americans who are sick and who are endangered losing their lives as well as those who've lost and he's right about how testing numbers make his politics look, it's shameful. Their Democrats have pointed out the fact that there. There's already about fourteen billion dollars for corona virus, testing and contact tracing that was appropriated. By by the Senate and the House that the the Adleman has access to it is not using currently as we're watching, the spike happened. It just seems like there has been total abandonment at the federal level, really total like it's just the governor's issue, and let's cross our fingers and hope it doesn't get too bad. Well Chris I mean, this is from the very beginning. Remember that at the very beginning back in December. January timeframe the World Health Organization offered test kits to the United States and we would we turn them down. We turn them down. They offered test kits to us at the time when our CDC was having problems with producing the correct test kids on, we turned down test. Test kits at so we've been behind a the this virus from the very beginning, because the trump administration has failed to mobilized a really, you know we have some pretty significant resources in this country, and it just refuse to mobilize it, and in fact, the president even early on said to on governors. You're on your own go. Get your own stuff. Go Get your own. Ego Get your on testing kits, go, do it yourself. He didn't want to have anything to do with it. He refused to use the defense production act and to call that. Into US until very late he told the governor said go out on their own, my own Governor Governor Pritzker had to go. She ate for key and fly in an aircraft and not tell me not to the federal government up so that we could actually get. into our state and into all of our hospitals, this president has not I mean not just behind the virus willfully behind the virus, and we have one hundred twenty thousand dead Americans to show for it. And what does he do? Does he take leadership know? What does he do? Stop testing? That's negligent and that and that's putting it kindly curse. I wonder how you think about Illinois. Right now because there are states that. Went through the the got hit pretty hard. The beginning of this New, York and the New York Metro area, checking them, but also Illinois. Also Michigan also sent Louisiana and in those states we've seen fairly rapid declines and the question I. Think Everyone's mind is is Arizona or Texas Florida. Everyone's future. Is that what we're all heading towards? And if so, that seems untenable I mean at some point. People are going to have to the emergency brake or there's GonNa be some natural response. That doesn't just say. You know. Sale of E. I think a key thing Illinois was that we were able to ramp up production of tasks, and we were able to get to the goal surpassed of ten thousand tests per day. and. We're well above that. And that was the turning point Illinois the shelter in place order the governor pritzker called for very early on and people actually heated the shelter in place order and stayed home. Much to a lot of economic pain, but people stayed home and the sense of what they believed in the science, and then we ramped up out testing, and so now at Illinois has been able to very slowly reopen our economy and just this week we entered the face five the final phase of reopening I. Think other states could be there, too, but they have to be realistic about it, and if you re open too soon like Florida or Arizona, you face the potential Connie backed out of that is even worse. That's even worse for Konami object to shut everything down, and that's going to hurt people even more than a much more methodical opening. The Doomsday Scenarios Right now in front of us are death starring Spike. Again Andorra state having a shutdown I think both of those would just be would knock the wind collectively out of out of just sort of the American people given everything that we've gone through so of our center, Tammy. Duckworth represents the great. State of Illinois, which isn't phase five and our fingers crossed for you. Go, get them. Thank you very much. Thank you. I WanNa I. Want to now bring in doctor Dr Sira Madonna that senior director. System Special Pathogens Program The New York City, health and hospital system over the weekend. She tweeted I responded to multiple epidemics and pandemics over the years from a bullet. Ezekiel the measles, each facing its own set of obstacles I'm used to outbreaks being politicized, but I've never witnessed this amount of stupidity that has plagued this pandemic from the get go by elected doctor I saw that. Stuck with me and I wanted to have you WANNA ask? What do you mean by that? From the Gecko we've been ten steps stop when we should have been two steps ahead. And what's happening is completely undermining our entire response as nation, so let alone the response that each day to seeing you're seeing you know. At least tens days have the a record number of high cases along with hospitalizations. You're seeing that it's undermining public trust you know. Everything is being politicized everything from wearing a mask to going to the barber shop and it's very very fortunate. I responded to multiple epidemic over the years. And this is the first you know pandemic. Based where the federal government in of itself is essentially sabotaging the entire response. The thought of this is my colleague. Von Hilliard. Talking about trying to get tested Arizona because we're seeing the testing numbers right in the testing, numbers are going up. In US testing capacity is increased massively, but it still clumpy right. There are still places where testing is very easy like in new. York and places where it's not so easy. This is his experience in Arizona. Talking about the next Care Urgent Care Thomas and Seventeenth Street in Phoenix on Friday had a five and a half hour. Wait folks were sitting outside with masks, one hundred and four degrees out one issue. I'm play, told banner. Health does not have a sufficient number machines to process the actual tests. The state says it's working with them on federal money to increase the number of machines, demand for tests is risen more questions to be addressed. So what we're seeing here is in the state that arguably has the worst outbreak right now at this late date. Even there looks like we have a testing bottleneck which is. Catastrophic. Absolutely I mean we are obviously you know six months into this pandemic. We still can't get the most basic infrastructure in place won a number of us that are in the field. We talked about preparedness responding to epidemics pandemics, we have an underlying assumption that we're going to have testing in place. You're going to have a coherent, unreasonable, federal response and unfortunately none. None of that actually existed in this pandemic, and without is causing very poor communication to the American public and right now our biggest weapon is our behavior, and so you can't educate the public if you're not going to show them and model good behavior, why are they going to trust public health officials? That's exactly what's happening. It's undermine everything that we're doing. One interesting piece of data that I've seen that the meeting age of folks in the States Florida. Texas Arizona is coming down. It's actually much lower than it had been have been places like New York the beginning of this pandemic, and there are some hope that what we're seeing is kind of bifurcation, the behavior of different populations that people who are most at risk and older are really sort of hunkered down still and people that are younger are doing things like going to bars and things like that and they're getting infected now. I guess the best case scenario is that if you could keep it out of the? Traveling among populations that are at risk. Maybe we don't see an uptake death. Maybe the case fatality rate doesn't go as high. How how hopeful are you that we can kind of keep that sequestration in these states? This is a a game that we're all predicting of how worst outbreak is to get. You're seeing all the models. Come out. You're seeing then factoring in the mobility of the population in the various risks, advocation does that you know are embedded within it, but you know as we know, no one is invincible. You're seeing. We're learning more about this virus. We know a lot more than we did in January and what we've seen is that while those that are in highest group, those have underlying health conditions they are. More at risk of having adverse effect, adverse case that still lives. The fact that anyone can get infected. Anyone can have a worse outcome. We're seeing that we saw the play out in New York seeing a number of individuals always say in various age groups have really. Worse outcomes, and it's a very not net. Dr Serum Dodd who has worked on these issues for a long time Thank you very much for joining US tonight. Depending Chris? Next the latest on the Justice Department's sloppy attempt to install a trumper stm while no one was looking. Bill bars very public tobacco all went down and what they're up to after this. I'm Lee host into America a podcast from NBC News and Msnbc Join me as we go into the numbers, eighty three percent of her patients don't have insurance right now. into the choices I have to plan a funeral in the age of the virus. How's this GonNa work and into away through the importance of music is to keep our spirits up into America a podcast about people and the power politics policy and a pandemic habits, shaping our lives new episodes, every Monday and Thursday. Hey everyone! It's for mainly MSNBC. Correspondent and host of the podcast into America. Another unarmed black man was killed by police over the weekend this time in Atlanta radar, Brooks's twenty-seven. The officer who shot Brooks has been fired. The police chief have resigned while across the country protests continue. Why did it have to escalate? Why did there have to be chase if he was running away? One at let him run. Why did it get to the point where you felt that? You had to chase after him and ultimately use deadly force NBC News Correspondent Blaine Alexander brings us the latest from Georgia and we talk about the emotional toll of being a black journalist covering this moment. Search for into. America wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. Quite late on Friday night. When the show is over and people were sliding the weekend. No one's really paying attention to the news attorney general. William Bar just issued a surprising statement out of nowhere seemingly announcing the US attorney for the Southern District of New York a guy named Jeffrey, Berman was resigning. That's a weird thing to announce Friday at ten o'clock the Southern District of New York is arguably one of the most powerful and active districts in the country. Probably be most powerful, and as you might remember, it's that district put the president's former lawyer. Michael Cohen. Prison is also that district that has reportedly currently investigating the president's personal lawyer bag man. Rudy Giuliani already indicted to associates. It's also investigating the president's inaugural committee the presence Personal Bank Deutsche Bank. One of the most surprising things about the attorney general's sudden Friday night summer announcement is that it was also apparently surprised to the mandate issue. The top prosecutor that William Bar claimed had resigned. because. That Guy Jeffrey Bourbon quickly issued a statement saying in effect hell, no quote I learned in a press release from the Attorney General Tonight, that I was stepping down as United States attorney I have not resigned, have no intention resigning my position. Our investigations move forward without delay or interruption. Boy, that last part, certainly a shot across the bow to at the very least imply that his removal or attempt to remove was due to William Bar wanting him to stop doing some of those investigations that on Saturday afternoon bar, then up the ante, releasing a public letter to Berman, saying quote because you have declared, give no intention resigning I have asked the president to remove you as of today and he has done so. The top prosecutor for the southern district agreed to step down shortly after that so Jeffrey Berman says okay Dunkel but. Only after bar agreed to let his deputy right his number, two a respected career prosecutor take over that office as opposed to having taken over by the New Jersey US attorney, which was weird or the person they'd nominated. But an all the back and forth it's important not of the fact. You shouldn't generally United States just flat out. Lied to the American people are Friday. That's what happened. He lied when he said that federal prosecutor resigned, that was a lie. He lied to all of us with the black and white lie. Something easily provable, and he has lied before, and now that you're attorney who has bet department? That attorney general was fired every Berman. Jerry Berman does now available to testify before Congress. If any wants to hear from him, because we still not really know what the heck happened here. Joining me now from war on the removal of US Attorney Jeffrey verminous Senator Sheldon, Whitehouse Democrat island. He's a member of the Senate. Judiciary Committee that confirmed Attorney General Bar. He previously served as a US attorney himself. The US Attorney for Rhode Island and in that capacity as a as a senator on the committee as a man who held a job similar to Geoffrey Berman's. What did you of this when you heard this Friday night? What what what is this? I don't know it's. It's somewhere between the Gong show, and that that black comedy the death of Stalin. It's just such an array of misfires. First of all, there's the lie about. The US resigning. It turns out that nobody bothered to tell bar. They'd forgotten that. This was a judicially appointed us a rare thing. So, it's actually not clear that bar can fire him. Which gave him the leverage to hold out and demand that instead of the. New Jersey US attorney coming in. His own southern district of New York deputy take over again in the. Ordinary course, and then they also forgot. that. There's a blue slip in the Senate Judiciary Committee. So, really the new appointee, who they supposedly wanted to be Jay Clayton would have to go through Chuck Schumer. And curious the Gillibrand before they could get there. So the amateurishness and the obvious oversights I. Mean it's kind of fire. The associate quality work here so. All of that suggest because bar is not an idiot. That there's some very powerful forces working just beneath. The surface to explain all this peculiarity. Well I mean that's that's the mystery here that to me is unsolved right? I mean clearly something happened. There was some predicate for this precipitating incident. There's some reporting today about it. Being an open letter about statement of interest in front of Justice on Bill De Blasios opening I don't quite by that. But. It just seems to me that someone's job. I don't know Senate. Judiciary Committee the. Carry Committee to actually get to the bottom Mike. We should know what happened here. Yes. We should know what happened here. And if we had gobbles in the Senate, we would find out. Chairman Nadler does have gavel in the house and I hope and expect he will continue to look into this because all just smells really rancid. I think part of it might be that they want humble. The famous sovereign district of New York which is why you bring a New Jersey us attorney to oversee it. As a part time job there's always been a rivalry between main justice, and the so called sovereign district, but just the bad lawyering here and the slipshod facts, and being caught lying twice first by Berman and second by the president, saying Hey, I had nothing to do with this. When bar said, this was the president's call. It all just smacks of amateurism and bizarre bizarre motivations. Yeah, we had the president saying he's. We have a very capable attorney. General's. That's really up to him. I'm not involved which I believe the president on this who knows? Off We're dealing with a bunch of people who don't have a lot of credibility, but we do know that there's precedent here I mean in in in in in the in the DC district, right? You. You've got a situation where they did. move out the US attorney. They sort of fake promoted her. Then they rescinded the nomination, and they have loyalists there and they've gone to town with that. I, mean that is where they have undermined career. Prosecutors together suggest a lighter sentence for for Roger Stone leading to resignations. That's where they have attempted to drop charges against Michael Flynn, that was so irregular bizarre that a federal district judge is basically said like hold up and appointed or retire. To take the other side of the case, so they have run this play in DC before. There is some precedent for what it looks like they're trying to do. Not only they run this play, but they really got their fingers burned. Trying to run it. As the professional prosecutors left the case. And when Judge Gleeson the specially appointed, retired judge came in a he wrote a blistering condemnation of what was going on. I mean stunning. By a former judge so. All of that really looked horrible for the department, of Justice, and the fact that they would. Try to replay it while their fingers still. Scorched from the last maneuver is again. It's just really really peculiar. I hope that we get some clarity from Mr Rubin himself in the in the near future on what exactly went down? There I know the people in that who work in that office pretty flummoxed. Unnerved by the sequence of events, centre, Sheldon Whitehouse. Thank you so much joining US tonight? My pleasure. To present continues his fear, mongering against built by Mail Kentucky, braces for Primary Day after pulling places where cut by nearly ninety five percent why there's just one polling place to serve over six hundred thousand registered voters in one county after this. Tomorrow's another election day, and that gives us another chance to conduct our ongoing real time experiment. What voting looks like an pandemic six states are holding primaries or run off and a lot of is Kentucky. Where earlier this year lawmakers worked on a bipartisan deal to push back the primary until tomorrow and allow Mellon ballots were every registered voter choose. That deal also allowed counties. Counties to reduce inflammation pulling on election day to just one site and the top election official highly populated Jefferson County a Republican decided to do just that as voting rights expert journalist Ari. Berman noted there will be one polling place for six hundred Sixteen Thousand Registered Voters in Louisville's Jefferson. County, were half the states. Black voters live adding this is going to be a disaster. As we've covered extensively on the show. Republicans have used various strategies suppressed. The vote and one of the strategies has been to limit polling locations in African. American areas that are more likely to vote for. Democrats is also the case that state and county boards of elections are often just not equipped to run the elections. They want to run in these circumstances. I mean here in new. York right, which is run by Democrats, there's also a primary tomorrow elections in this state or not run particularly well I have to say I mean anecdotally numerous. The absentee ballots they requested for tomorrow's primary and I mentioned this, because sometimes the failures that we elections are not the result of partisanship racial prejudice, but simply because the people in charge are overwhelmed or incompetent or an uncertain circumstances or some combination of all three, and so the best chance that we have to mitigate these failures is through a comprehensive well run vote by mail program something that's particularly important during the pandemic. Then we haven't impeach president of the United States attempting outright to subvert and sabotage the franchise tweeting because of mail in ballots, twenty twenty will be the most rigged election in our nation's history. In fact of course both Donald Trump and mike pence, themselves recently voted by mail. That has not stopped Attorney General William? Barr from making claims like this. Right now a foreign country could print up tens of thousands of of counterfeit ballots, and be very hard for us to detect which was the right, which was the wrong ballot. That's not true. We would be able to detect them. In fact, election experts deemed that claim which also pushed by the president on twitter to be ridiculous. And I cannot stress enough. How much we need imbalanced because right now it may be the best things are going to be for the rest of the year. Comes this pandemic and think of that. Things might be much worse in November. We might be all sheltering in place again or cold and flu season, and the coronavirus, and having the president and the attorney general now attacking legitimacy of melon voting, which could well save lives is just so bad and so dangerous. Why is trump doing? Right now. The polls suggest going to lose badly, so he may want to undermine the results failing that it seems like. Maybe he just thinks chaos is friend. Joining me now is democratic election lawyer Marc Elias, who is currently involved in over thirty lawsuits to protect voting rights around the country? Mark as we come up on. On this election day tomorrow or their areas of particular concern for you. Yeah I mean I think we've had this conversation before and I have a feeling. We're going to have it again. We continue to see debilitating along the lines in primary after primary after primary whether it was taxes before Kobe were voters seven and a half hour long lines whether it was in Milwaukee where there are only five polling places open as city usually as hundred eighty, whether was in Georgia or whether it was in Nevada where the Republican Secretary State also closed all the in person. Polling locations except for one or a couple opera county. The argument that I've heard from folks defending the situation. Kentucky in other places is that this is a this is look. We're trying to sort of were or operating under difficult conditions, and we're trying to offer a choice, and we can't basically run both at full tilt, right. We don't have the capacity to run essentially a huge mail in ballot program in a state that's not used to it and also a huge election day program. We don't have the funding. We know the training. We the capacity, so we're kind of trying to mix and match the to. What what's your response to that that this is essentially a good faith effort that just a tough thing to pull off. So good faith. Effort doesn't work when it comes to the fundamental right of vote. I'm sorry. We don't give you a trophy for trying when it comes to protecting people's Constitutional Rights of Oak and that's what a lot of the rhetoric I here is what we're doing the best we can't. We'll do better. You know somehow we manage to do better when we're talking about. largely white affluent areas. We don't see long lines there, but when it comes to. Places where African Americans vote where young people vote we see long lines. We saw them into four weeks two, thousand eight. We saw them in two thousand twelve president. Obama spoke about it in the state of the Union in January of twenty thirteen, saying this was a crisis that we need to solve. He appointed a bipartisan commission. Guess what happened in two thousand sixteen longlines again and here again we see them in twenty twenty so I think it's about time we stop making excuses and saying tried and start coming to solutions. The president. The President says a lot of things and sometimes I think it's probably useful not to. Take too seriously a lot of things he says. Because he just spouts nonsense. We all know that. This stuff, the non-sensitive spending about absentee ballots, and now being aped by the Attorney General I have to say I found that interview. Some shocking does strike me as on a different plane of dangerousness, just in terms of. The collective legitimacy of our free and fair elections. Yeah, of course I think you're right to point out. The addition of the attorney general is is really troubling. We are all used to donald trump, saying preposterous things that are not true. It's kind of become sport to see him say he ridiculous lies, but it's another thing for the attorney. General of the United States to sit down in an interview stunning, and tell not one not two, but several lies about about the safety of vote by man, and use a escalation of the propaganda and the person that we're seeing out of the administration. Particularly because any situation, in which we may have any sort of litigation, the idea, the Department of Justice, putting his finger on the thumb on the scale in this you know that. Is is really terrifying. I mean shocking and terrifying to consider. And it's inconceivable to imagined. Even you know a few years ago. I mean whatever you might thought about the. Bush Department of Justice in the two thousand eight election, two thousand four election. Whatever Republicans may have harbored about their concerns about. General holder and the Obama administration the notion that the Attorney General United States went on TV and said that foreign governments can print ballots in states can't figure it out that people signed the outside of ballot envelopes as part of some effort to deny the secrecy of the ballot, when in fact, they signed those on the outer envelope, precisely to meet the Republicans concern about Braun. That's why they signed the over. is is just it's just. It's unbelievable. Even for this administration, it's unbelievable. Marc Elias who is one of the sort of top election lawyers in the country. Who thinks about this works on a full time and we'll have more than enough work. Unfortunately, in the months to come. Thank you very much. Thank you. Still to come down from Tulsa disaster is a really bad side for campaign, but we know about the fallout behind closed doors. Voters are not sold on his Kovic Responses Tab. It is Tuesday June sixteenth, and this is a Fox News alert. Three NYPD officers poisoned at a Manhattan shake shack. That's according to law enforcement officials. Bleach reportedly dumped in their drinks as anti police sentiment hit the boiling point. Restaurants response to be horrendous attack. We now know that not only did the great shake shack poisoning incident not happen, which became clear hours later. The entire thing was an elaborate in preposterous fraud. Today we are learning. What actually happened? CRAIN reporting from New York Post Three New York police officers were milkshakes on lap, so there is no way for workers at the shake shack in question to of knowing that these were police officers, ordering the shakes could not have been tampered with after the officers showed up to pick them up because they already packaged and ready for pick up. The shakes did tastes a little funny officers who threw them out talked to? The manager, got apologies and vouchers for free food or drink a supervisor for the officers quote called in the emergency service unit to set up a crime scene at the fast food joint for an evidence search around nine twenty pm. Nearly two hours after they I got the hour shakes again. The NYPD set up an entire crime scene outside this burger place as police were investigating inside and outside the restaurant, you original three officers taken the hospital for an exam without ever having shown any symptoms according to the post. Meanwhile lieutenant sent an email to the police union, saying six cops had thrown up and gotten sick after drinking the shakes again, not true. That resulted in the Police Union tweeting out there officers were under attack and intentionally poisoned. The entire premise was fall from the start. Quote it was unclear why the sergeant and lieutenant escalated the situation again. These people tasked with the job of finding things out and establishing the facts in criminal situations. Turns out just some cleaning solution that got left in the milkshake machine quote detectives easily closed the case. Interviewing five employees and reviewing surveillance footage showing the shakes were made normally. So the next time that you have a police union official giving you a statement about something that supposedly just happened. Please I. Beg of you. Remember the check. This is the president of home homes. The White House on Saturday night. Looking to shoveled defeated red tie undone dangling around his neck, a walk of shame back home, literally hat in hand. Does hours earlier he'd wrapped up his rally in Tulsa Oklahoma rally that was going to reboot his whole reelection effort. Campaign said they don't over one million ticket requests for the rally. There were meant to be so many people. They even built a whole extra stage outside the arena for trump pence to address your flow crowd. But there was no overflow. Crowd weren't even enough people to fill the actual renewed self according to Tulsa, Fire Department there were just over six thousand people in Arena. That can seat three times that many. Times reports the president was stunned, yelled at AIDS backstage while looking at the endless rows of empty seats, and he gave a rambling speech spending more than fifteen minutes, explaining why he had walk slowly down ramp West Point before successfully drinking a glass of water with just one hand leading to applause. Then, he came home. We got the now a conic image of a man looking dessel Tori defeated because like among many other things. This is a moment that exposed the sheer. Political weakness of this man at this point. To talk about on joined by Alexia common political reporter for Axios covers the twenty twenty presidential election and you. Michel Cinder White House correspondent for PBS PBS. Newshour Alexi let me start with you I mean just at the most basic level of like campaign advanced. This was as big a disaster as I have seen particularly at A. With, the stakes as high as they were here. Suggests that people were focused on other things to your point Chris that they couldn't even pick up on this that it was happening until it was far too late. And in one thing we know to be true about President. Trump is that he loves these rallies. It's where he gets his energy. It's where he feels most himself, and it's where his base group of voters love him the most they love from at a rally. They don't necessarily love trump behind the podium. Podium giving a coronavirus briefing, but his voters love him at his at a rally, and he loves doing those things and the fact that he couldn't get. That is something that's going to grind his gears throughout this week and something that could lead to campaign staff shakeups. They're going to have to think about the fact that this was their rally to kick off their great American comeback to her now. How are they actually going to kick off that tour in earnest? Strikes me if you look at the at the polling average right now that has. Five thirty. It has Biden at about nine point advantage. We have seen in the last few months. How quickly life can change? How quickly politics change so this is just a snapshot of moment in time, but I wonder how much the White House understands. The problem is reality. It's not like the message. It just the fact that things are there's a pandemic, and things are not great in the country, and ultimately like they have to solve that or do a good job, or they will not win, and that's the basic equation I wonder. Do you understand that? I think there are people around the president who have been urging him to really proceed cautiously when it comes to the corona virus when it comes to. Victory over into a Alexi point. You have this president who is really desperate in and really excited about being in front of a big crowd of people. He wants to do that, but then you have his health officials saying well actually we're probably going to have a second wave of the coronavirus. More people are gonNA. Die Hundreds of thousands of Americans have already died of the virus. Virus, but still president trump is leaning on his instincts. Do what he wants to do. So even though there might be people around the White House to take it more seriously than president trump ultimately, it's still the president's decision to go forth because he's positive himself as kind of I'm not going to wear a mask, I'm not GonNa really buy into the the pandemic too much. This is what I found so fascinating in in many ways about this moment politically and also about what happened in Tulsa and Alexi you guys at axios had an interesting. Right up today, just a focus group swing voters in Eerie Pennsylvania, which again. This is qualitative this quantitative, but we read so much about the ways in which this has been polarized in these swing voters saying that they were feeling annoyed, irritated and frustrated she the president out, and about not wearing a mask into coronavirus participants described Biden as role ball, wearing a mask calling him. Him informed educated and responsible and I think you know when you look at the polling. When you look at what happened in Tulsa, it is easy to lose sight of the fact that there's actually a fair degree of consensus and UNM unanimity in American life that the virus is serious, and we should try to get it and we should do what we can to fight it. In Chris. That is a fact that we all know to be true and also have other polling with Ipsos. An axios that showed that eight in ten Americans are worried about a second wave coming that obviously matters because businesses and schools are to polling and public opinion about whether and how they should reopen, and it obviously matters how we can go about living our lives. The president you know. We thought he was seeing those numbers when he they. His campaign said that they were making the moved to pass out masks to rally goers, you know. Know, but what I'm curious about too is how many people are actually interested in signing a waiver to attend a rally like this? We saw how load the attendance numbers were already suggests that even trump's most ardent supporters aren't really interested in going out to see the president right now because of this pandemic, but on top of that. How many people are actually interested in signing away the rights to the President? When they're still so much, we don't know about this virus and again. There's a really high concerned that it's coming back imminently. In terms of the White House's political standing or trump's on one thing that has been striking throughout this right as they have always operated. It's better to be feared. It's not it's not that they have good relationships. It's that we hold this base. This base will come for you if you cross. That's it. And I thought it was notable that you have senator Lindsey Graham who's been loathed across the president. Speaking up to talk about the firing of Berman. This weekend saying that that he was going to allow Democrats essentially to Scotch this if the president was going to try to install his personal per person and I know that like. Weakness has a way of sort of. Growing on itself a bit like the perception of weakness becomes weakness and I know that's something that this president. This White House is extremely obsessed with. The idea is that president trump has been able to keep Republicans in the Senate, in the House on his side, because they are fearful of the base, and they think that the base is with President trump I want to say that the minute the base seems as though they're separating from president trump. You're going to see a lot more Republicans trying to create distance between themselves and the president and what you have right now is the president who has said look. I want to be. Be the person who's anti mask I want to be the person who's saying the pandemics over I wanted to the person who says we all stand up and go vote in these big long lines because it's easier, and that's the way I want to do. So what you have is the American people saying well. Actually I don't feel like being sick, even if I'm a Republican. You might think that that is going to continue to happen as we get closer and closer to November. That this is Alexi. This is the basic point here I mean this is such an obvious point, but it's like they have managed. I think partly it's because of the media. The president consumes I think it's because he thinks that he can kind of talk way out of things to kind of detach themselves from the basic shared reality that people across the political and ideological spectrum continue to have which is like. We still got a global pandemic. It's still wants a century to thing. It's still screen up. Relied smoke either ways, and it doesn't go away. Because Donald Trump says like come on down to my rally. Let's all packed together in the stadium. While we've only got so many months until the election Chris and we know that that is the only thing that is on president. Trump's mind right now, and that doesn't excuse his behavior or his focus, but it is interesting to your point because we've seen how focused. The president has been on elections, but now this is all that he cares about I. mean he's not talking about the corona virus in the way that is addressing Americans concerns about whether or not they'll be able to send their kids back to school. School in the fall whether they'll even have a business. You'll back to in the fall. He's also not talking about when he's talking about voting and encouraging the people who have protesting to go stand in long lines to vote. He's not talking about safety precautions in place to do that because of covid. He's not talking about how we're going to stop these long lines from happening. He's not talking about the fact that all these polling locations are closing, therefore making it harder for communities of color in particular to even. A ballot box I. mean there's a lot of things that the president could be talking about. There's an election happening, so that's where his focuses. Yeah I think you continue to see from the very beginning him viewing this as essentially either a hoax were essentially it just a a deeply unfair and route interruption of his presidency, an economy reelection campaign, and he he has refused to move off of that because he just that's the way Lexi mcammond you Michelle Center. Thank you both for joining US tonight. That does it for all in? You can catch his every weeknight at eight o'clock on MSNBC. Don't forget like us on facebook. That's facebook dot com slash all in with Chris.

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Political Roundup: Firing Of Geoffrey Berman, Trump's Tulsa Rally

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

47:36 min | 4 months ago

Political Roundup: Firing Of Geoffrey Berman, Trump's Tulsa Rally

"From NPR WBZ you are Boston Meghna talker. Birdie, and this is on point. They call them Friday night massacres, this one used into Saturday, and the bizarre public back and forth between Attorney General. Bill Bar and US attorney for the Southern District of New York Jeffrey. Berman Bar, said Berman was stepping down. Berman said he wasn't president. Trump said it was all up to bar. So what exactly is going on here? We will talk about the middle op muddled. But we'll dig deeper to because the real question is, why was Berman? Let go, and why now so this hour on point the firing that's backfired and we'll start today with Paula Reid she joins us from Washington. She covers the Justice Department and the White House for CBS News, Paul. It's great to have you back. Thank you so much for having me, so shall we start on Friday nights just a just a couple of days ago, but so much has happened and this a press release the the attorney general put out about a nominating a new attorney for the Southern District of New York the starters there. What happened so actually? Let's start before Friday because in my reporting is you try to Suss out right? Is there something nefarious at play or is this sort of a botch? Personnel Move I. Think it helps to go way back here so several weeks back Jay Clayton, the chairman of the Securities Exchange Commission. Commission expressed interest to the attorney general in becoming the US attorney for the Southern District of New York. This is one of the most powerful Bright V, most powerful US attorney position in the country and one of the most powerful law enforcement jobs. He said he'd been wanting to move back to New York. The Attorney General thought this was a great idea, but we already had US attorney in the southern district of new. York and he is He has overseen many insignificant investigations. He has successfully prosecuted the president's former personal attorney Michael, Cohen he's also has been investigating the president's current personal attorney Rudy Giuliani for possible foreign lobbying violations. It's very politically sensitive office now he also declined to pursue additional increase into the president, possibly violating campaign finance violations, so doesn't necessarily have a record of being an ally or a retreat adversary of the administration, but when the attorney general went to speak with him on Friday are we're told that he added discussion with Berman. Any offered him other positions one in the Justice Department headed up the Civil Rights Division, or even being the chairman at the SEC. Now clearly, the consensus stops there. Because the attorney general released a statement, saying Berman had stepped down the next morning. He said no, no, no I'm still coming to work. We saw him going into the office. He said I have not step down. The Attorney General is not really explained why he released that misleading statement appears then the attorney general went to the president got him to to fire a Berman and send him a letter to that effect, but then the president said when he was asked on his way to was told to rally that he had nothing to do with this, but the president's stop there. He also said that he doesn't get involved in the Justice Department. Department, and once again we go back to this big question right? Is this just incompetence, or is this a conspiracy? The problem is the president suggested that he never gets involved in the justice. Department and we just know that's not true. We know that's not true. Because the attorney general has said the president constantly weighing in on twitter makes it impossible for him to do his job special counsel. Robert Muller found at least eleven instances where the president tried to get involved, so we know at least one of the two statements of the president made. There are just not true which makes it harder to believe the other statement, which is that the president had nothing to do with. No Clinton is also someone who has the the guy who wanted this job. He's also someone who who golf's occasionally with the president, so that's really where we're left right now. We have what looks like okay. Maybe you just want to swap one guy in for the outer. But the guy you're taking out investigating your personal attorney can't keep your story straight it's. that. That's where we are right now. We don't have a lot of really clear answers. Well, one thing's pretty clear right now. Is that Mr Clayton is unlikely to get this to get this position. Because even the president's allies like Senator Lindsey Graham Senate Judiciary Committee have come out and said you know we're not. We're not to let this so so many questions. Questions. Let me throw this one at you. First of all Jay, Clayton was serving on the SEC in doing a fine job there. He has a good record as a corporate attorney. I don't. He's never served as a federal prosecutor. As far as I can tell, and I talked to some folks over the weekend. Who says that specifically regarding the Southern District of? Of New York the last time that someone was named attorney there, who had never served as a federal prosecutor was sixty years ago. So so this is a very particular district in which to say, Hey, let's just put this guy over here. I mean that's part of the strangeness of All this, isn't it? It it's incredibly incredibly strange as you noted he doesn't have. Have Experience in litigation. We have talked to multiple sources around him well confirmed that he did want to make the move back up to New York. But as you noted this specific job, this is just a US attorney job. This is the US attorney job and for the attorney general or the president. Whenever he got involved in this, too, not even understand how. How the optics would play, it's it just makes it harder and harder to believe their story particularly when they do this late at night on a Friday, try the Friday news dump, and they can keep their stories straight. Even when you want to look at the set of facts that suggest okay. Maybe you just wanted to do this guy a favor, or maybe you're. He suggested the idea. It makes it so hard to believe because of the way they've handled this. There's another wrinkle here in that first press release that the Attorney General put out on Friday night. He says on my recommendation. The president has appointed Craig Carp Carp Benito currently. The US attorney for the district of New Jersey to serve as acting us attorney in the SDN. Why now that's not GonNa happen any more either right because as of guests Saturday. When all of this was shaking out, it was agreed that if the when Burma finally said he was going to step down that his. Deputy Audrey Strauss was actually instead going to take over in the interim. So what's going? What's going on there? Exactly just jobs will be will be stepping in in the interim dot is typically the way they handle. She's a veteran prosecutor. She's really deep experience in white collar, cases and mob cases moderate Republican she she is going to take take that position the attorney in New Jersey. He also released. Released a statement off supporting her, it appears that even if he was going to be involved, he took a few steps back and just did not want to get involved in this and wasn't fortunate. As many of these folks are actually pretty pretty good. Public servants who have solid track records in car and jobs, even in the private sector, and now they all have a little bit a stink on them. We'll polaroid standby for just a moment here. Because I know WANNA. Bring into the conversation. A couple of other legal experts Stewart Gerson joins us from Washington Stewart's a former assistant attorney general. He served as Assistant AG under President George H, w Bush and his acting attorney general, the United States during the early Clinton. Administration and he joins US again from Washington. Welcome to the program. Thank you, and also with us from Washington as well as Jonathan Turley. He's professor of public. Interest Law at George Washington. University professor Turley welcome to you. Thank you? So, so Professor Turley Limoges Start with you here is this. Is this just a a ham fisted handling of what would otherwise be kind of a a pro forma transition in the southern district of New York. I think it could well be the problem I've had at the coverages is that there was an immediate assumption that this was an effort to derail trump related investigations? It really sort of strain credulity why they would do that now. bars been attorney jump for a long time. There's never been allegations interfered with this. I with the southern new. York investigations and also I. Think what we we've indicated found from media reports including People like Pete Williams at NBC. Is he saying that his sources indicate that? This sort of fell out the way that bar described that there was a decision that Clayton wanted to go back to New York and was interested in this position, and they thought they would swap positions with Berman in order to keep claiming in the administration now there could well be the case. I think it's worth investigating I'm glad Congress is going to look into it, but the assumption that this was. To derail. The trump investigation does not appear to be panning out with media reports. When when Barb was confirmed during his confirmation, hearing and I testified at that hearing He said Notably that he can't stop the president from replacing US attorneys. Because they. Serve at the pleasure of the president, but he would not allow to happen is the replacement of US attorney to interfere with an underlying investigation. Stewart. Would you like to respond to that? Yes, I. Slightly disagree with my friend. The good the good professor. You have to go back a little bit farther to to understand the context of this. BILL BAR has been interested in centralizing control over. Investigations in cases what's going on with respect to the southern district parallels what had been going on with the United States Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia. We know boasts from reporting, and and otherwise that there has been something less than cordiality between bar and Berman going back at least a year. a lot of it has to do with the question of autonomy. Or a TACO We know how bar wants to run these things we know that he displaced the US attorney in the District of Columbia and replaced her with the person close to him, and replaced him with a person also close to him. He tried to do the same thing in New York of course I. It's Somewhat Ham handed. Why does this happen when it happens? When we know that the the the president has been displeased with the US Attorney's office in the southern district, going back to the Cohen case and certainly hasn't been happy with. The Deutsche Bank case with the Giuliani investigation. Emerson wants described circumstantial. Evidence is opening the icebox and seeing the fish in the milk. we have plenty of fish in the milk here It's to question investigation to satisfy the president or just satisfy bars Felt the ED express need to control formerly independent United States attorneys offices. We have a situation that at least is unusual. Okay, so we're GONNA come back to all this in just a second but Paulo. We've got about a minute to go before the break here. Just wondering based on your reporting in your sources, your thoughts about what Stuart Gerson is saying about. Bill bars desire to release centralize. I guess for lack of a better term. things inside the Justice Department in his office really. Love I mean this isn't the first time. The Southern District of New York and Maine Justice Headquarters under any administration have butted heads over independence. We jokingly referred to it as the sovereign district of New York. So that is possible, but again we we have all these facts, and it is not clear. If this was attorney general, try to way to serve his own political interests doesn't help that. He gave contradictory statements him in the president. But. There's also a lot of evidence to suggest that this might have just been incompetent failure to understand how this would play out in the public sphere. While we are talking about exactly what happened over the weekend regarding the southern district of New York more importantly bill barring the Department of Justice. We'll have a lot more when we come back. This is on point. This is on point I'm Meghna Chakrabarti we are talking about the remarkable back and forth between Attorney General Bill Bar, and now the former, US attorney for the Southern District of New York that happened this weekend, and really trying to understand more deeply what this means about bill bar and the running of the Department of Justice. Now as you heard in the previous segment, there was a lot of back and forth including the attorney general saying that the president wanted to remove. Jeffrey Berman as the US Attorney in New York but then on Saturday morning as he said off for Tulsa Oklahoma president trump was asked why he fired Jeffrey. Berman as the attorney general said he had, and this is what the president said. Jeffrey Berman Mr President You. Up to the attorney general dirty general bar. is working on that. That's his department by Department. but we have a very capable of thirty general, so that's really up to him. I'm not involved. Paula Lemme, ask you quickly first of all just specifically speaking. Does it does the president. It doesn't have to be involved here. If the US attorney is being is being fired, because I can only come from the president that right. Yes, he has to be. He's the one with ory as the Attorney General has noted Jonathan early as he has the power to our US attorneys, but again the President says do I leave the whole Justice Department up to the Attorney General. The again as I said, that's just not true William. Bar has said that is not true William Bar. WHO said? said the president's prolific tweets on specific cases, particularly those related to his his current and former allies, Mike Flynn, or Roger Stone make it in bars. Words impossible for him to do his job. The special counsel found eleven instances where the president tried to obstruct justice by interfering with cases, or or investigation, so this argument that the president is doesn't get involved in the Justice Department is just doesn't pass the smell test, which is what makes it even harder to believe his other statement, which is that he had nothing to. To do with this decision again if he and bar could have maybe gotten their stories straight, not done this late at night on a Friday maybe gotten more buy in from Berman. It wouldn't have raised quite as much suspicion on. There's always going to be some questions because of the nature of this this office and who they were trying to put in their not having the right experience, but the way they've handled it. It's just really raised more and more questions about bars role in this administration. Is He just trying to? To be the nation's top law enforcement officer, or is he enabling the president's sometimes worst instinct it is, it is very perplexing. I have to say because on the June. Twentieth letter that Attorney General. Bar wrote to Jeffrey Berman. He says quote because you have declared that you have no intention of resigning, because you have declared that you've known tension resigning I have asked the president to remove you as of today and he has done so so it sounds like even in that sentence that the impetus from this coming from bar. Yes and the and the Justice Department has said that this was bars decision. That bar is the one who heard that Clayton. Wanted this job bar thought it was a good idea. The Justice Department also insists that it had nothing to do with any ongoing investigations. Particularly that into Rudy Giuliani. I spoke to Rudy Giuliani. What was interesting is he said he had nothing to do with this? He said he's never discussed this case. His his ongoing case with the Attorney General, he also said that he has such a good relationship with the current US Attorney Berman. He was the one who. Who recommended him for the job, so we get it? We don't have any evidence that there was some sort of conspiracy to oust him to help Rudy Giuliani where the president's allies. The problem is the present, and they torney general can't keep their stories straight on. What's going on here? Well, let's just listen to a little bit of what Jeffrey Berman said, as he showed up for work on Saturday, morning and reporters tried to get him to comment on bill bars statement that he was stepping down and as of Saturday morning. This is what Jeffrey Berman had to say. I have nothing to add to that. I'm just here to do my job. By the afternoon of course, though he had indeed stepped down now, professor Turley. Gerson. Let me just turn back to both of you for a second and Professor Turley let me start with you. You mentioned that some of the the media analysis of this moment, strains credulity, but Respectfully I would say that it's the the attorney general's behavior here that strains credulity a little paper because on the nineteenth as you well know in that first public statement. He said I think Jeffrey Berman. Who is stepping down? He said that in writing, presumably knowing at that point when the statement was released at Berman had men, fact not actually agreed to do so because the next day he said we were in ongoing discussions. So why? Why can you help me understand why bill bar you, you know you know him quite well. Why would he put something like that? In writing? Even knowing that at that time, it wasn't specifically true. Why haven't talked to attorney general bar about this but I think that the problem with a lot of coverages usuals. It's on this trigger that the minute something like this happens. People assume that there is a conspiracy with bar to stop investigations and I think that was fueled by Burman's own statement that he issued that he was going to guarantee that. These investigations are not interfered with. There's been no evidence at all that are as ever interfered with the southern district New York bar immediately said that that that is not the case. It would not be the case and I. Sorry I do know. Bill are very well, and it's not a relationship that necessarily makes me that popular in academia, but I've never met more directed. Truthful Man Than Bill Bar in Washington DC. You can disagree with this policy and I criticized him in columns since he's been attorney general, but he is very honest and very direct. My suspicion is that he thought that verb was stepping down usually, wouldn't an attorney general calls you and says you need to be out by July? We're going to. We would like to swap positions between you and and and Clayton our. Our understanding is that Berman said I'm really not interested in going to Washington or in that position, but from bars perspective I, the assumption is that he believed that the message was conveyed that he's step down in early July. That's usually the way this works. When Attorney General calls you and says we want to switch this position. Now was that him handed absolutely sure that have been done on a Friday night. No, but as you know. Administrations cleaning bomb administration routinely make these decisions on Friday night. I can't stand it. I think it's a terrible practice, but it did not begin with this decision, and it's been consistent approach of prior presidents issue. These types of changes on Friday night agreed the Friday night and use dump is anathema I think it's a terrible thing. It's bad for democracy absolutely, but I guess what I'm trying to understand in Stuart Gerson. Let me turn back to you on this. I'm trying not to get too bogged down in in in the back and forth, but I think it's revealing. We have to understand how this happened. Because it tells us about how Attorney General Bill. Bar sees his position and his oversight of the Justice, department, so I mean you worked as assistant attorney general. Is this how it's supposed to work? I mean as a professor Turley said that you sort of reach some kind of understanding or perceived understanding the go ahead and put a press release out, and it's all usually smooth sailing after that. Well when it. When it comes to perceptions, I can't say what bill bars perception was We know what Jeffrey Berman's perception was. And that was that he was being moved out. against his will. And that he berman was concerned about the integrity of investigations going forward, he said so, so we don't have to read minds in order in order to come to that conclusion, we know objectively that bill bar wants to exert a great deal of control over at least two key United States attorneys offices the District of Columbia and the southern district of new. York we know that. That there are investigations important to the administration that are occurring in both places. We know that Bar said that they all have to go through him. So we can at least say that this is involved with a desire by the Attorney General to centralize control over these organizations that he has viewed in the past as being independent I think those things are objectively demonstrable. The fact that the. Termination of Burma was done in a ham handed. Way doesn't contradict anything. It just says that the termination was done in a ham handed way the public ultimately benefits from that because rather than getting the unrelated us, attorney from. New Jersey to come in. We have the first assistant under the Vacancy Act Audrey Strauss. WHO's a? and I think the public take great confidence in in her tenure, which probably will last for the rest of this president's term and That's that's a good thing she's. Taken on organized crime. She's taking on tough cases and she's one them. She is a prosecute Jonathan Turley one more thing about sort of how this was handled, and then we'll dig more deeply into issues in the Justice Department but. You and many others have said repeatedly that bill bar is a top notch legal thinker. You just said he's honest and direct. He obviously has years and years and years of experience in government at the highest level. Levels. In the Department of Justice I just I I have a hard time buying that. He wouldn't know that putting something out like this. Forget the Friday night part, but putting something out like this. When they had an actually reached an agreement with N-. That didn't have the strong possibility blowing up in his face. I just I don't think. He'd be smarter than that in in handling media and if he's not. Why not I mean. That's the part that also strains credulity here. That is a valid point and I I agree with much of what Stuart as discussed about the concentration of authority between main justice and US attorney's offices. That didn't start with Bar, but certainly he follows a model completely unrelated to investigations of Maine, just as remaining the sort of central directive point of these US Attorney's office, but to your point I I totally understand and I can probably just Regio of doubt. No, he's not smart about the media I. It is. An aspect of bill art head comes up I often. When he issued that that statement on Friday night I'm one hundred percent certain. He believed it was true. What what we understand about the conversations that Berman's simply said. He wants to think about these other positions. When people I've talked to a justice of said that there was not any doubt that he was going to leave the attorney general just said you need to leave. I and the question was what he swapped position with Clayton takeover. The Civil Division and Berman said. I want to think about this more so I think from bars perspective. That was still open, but But not the question of his stepping down because it was never opened the minute. Berman issue that that statement I stated on twitter well. He'll be fired now because you know that's how this works is if you decline that type of call from the Attorney General, the next step would be terminations, but to answer your question again. No, he tends to have. Sort of parallel of the righteous when he believes he's correct when he believes he has the facts right He doesn't often think of how it Claes. He doesn't think about the optics it. But it's not. It's not the the result. Some people would would suggest of a sort of deep conspiracy are fundamental dishonesty. I think people who've interviewed Bill Bar. Honestly will tell you that he's one of the most interesting interviews because he doesn't spend attends to tell you exactly what he thinks. So let's put optics aside there for a moment. What about do you have any concerns or not? About the fact that this is Paula was explaining earlier, my have all been triggered by J Clayton's desire to leave the SEC and want to move back to New York. And, so like so even though he had not served. As a federal litigator at anytime that the administration bill bar, the president whomever said. Yes let's put him in as the US attorney for the Southern District of New York a a district that is extremely high profile and simultaneously handling these sensitive cases that are related to the president. Yeah I actually. This is why I agree with with Stewart's I. Don't think Clayton is a good choice for the US. Attorney's office or a good fit I also interior us as to why, if Burman was otherwise qualified, they were going to take this step of moving someone from New Jersey as the interim attorney. Those are the types of questions that I think Congress should legitimately. Demand Answers I on from the justice. Department and Bill Bar personally I by. It's sort of goes back to his confirmation. Hearing the question is what he'll you die on as an attorney general, and what what the what the attorney general said in his confirmation hearing was very very clear, and I think he might have understood. This could be a problem in the future. He said I can't stop the president from changing US attorneys, but I can refuse any change that try to influence an underlying investigation. And I believe that really captures bill bars philosophy of how we've used the role of the Attorney General. So Paula Reid it's It's quite mind bending to think that. A game of golf might have actually started all of this. mind-bending I think it fits perfect well. Yeah, I suppose I'm still. I'm still not yet past the point of being surprised by by this I should be, but I'm not but but. It seems to me though that the fact is is that this is all turning out wrong for for everyone in. Clayton included right because I. WanNa come back to something. You said a little bit earlier that for example Senator Lindsey Lindsey Graham is saying that they're going to honor the traditional blue slipping, so it sounds like cleaton prospects at the southern district of New York are pretty much deep six now. Yes, and like I said he now has a little bit of stink on having Aubrey. Strauss should get a real comfortable care for that office because he's probably GonNa, be here for the rest of the administration. We have to go back to this issue of bill bar now. I Know Jonathan is. is friendly with bar respects in a lot. There's a reason that the public does not completely trust bill bar. I mean in an interview with my colleague. Colleague Margaret Brennan a short time ago. I mean he tried to argue that pepper balls were not chemical, denying that they used pepper spray. When in fact, you know that that's just that's just not true We had the special counsel Robert Muller Come Out and send a letter, saying that he believed that the Attorney General and his memo to Congress did not capture the full context in nature, the substance of Robert Muller's work. We also know. Know that this attorney general has appointed six US attorneys to look into the president's political adversaries or specific political matters. There are of significant importance to the president, even if those matters have already been investigated by Congress and the internal watchdog at the Justice Department, there are a lot of folks who are wondering if bill bar is again enabling a lot of the president's political preferences, and that's why in a situation like this that on the one hand. Hand can just look like yeah. You rolled out the you kind of botched swap here that you were trying to do. That's why there's so many layers of skepticism on this, because of the other decisions that the attorney general has made other things that he has said that have led folks to really question what his role is and this administration professor really got about a minute before if take another break, do you want to respond to that? My Friend Paula on a number of things first of all those Russian investigations if he ordered having factored over new information, there's this mantra that they've already been investigated. My understanding is that the Durham investigation is gonNA produce extremely troubling findings were hearing that all over the hill. We're hearing that from the justice arm and he has extended it, but also you just look at the recently released documents that was new information, and it's troubling my view. View of this is very simple I. Want transparency I'd love them all to be investigated, and for these reports to be made public I'm a little skeptical when the Democrats who have been engaging in continuing investigations going back years are objecting to these investigations I think on all their houses in letting investigations go forward Jonathan Turley Paula Reid and Stuart Garson standby by for just a moment. We'll be right back with more. This is on point. This is point magnet trucker. Birdie were talking this hour about attorney general. Bill Bar and and the major kerfluffle that happened over the weekend with the removal of the now former US attorney for the southern district of new. York I'm joined today by Jonathan Turley. He's a professor of Public Interest Law George Washington University Paula. Reid is with us. She covers the Department of Justice and the White House for CBS, news and Stuart Gerson joins us as As well, he served as assistant attorney general under president. George H W Bush, and as acting attorney general the United States during the early Clinton administration currently, he's a member of the Law Firm Law Firm Epstein Becker and green and I wanNA. Play for you all a moment. from yesterday where Jerry Nadler the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee Democrat from New York was on C. N.. N.'s state of the Union and host Jake Tapper. Congressman Adler if he agreed with colleagues such as Massachusetts senator, Elizabeth! Warren, who have said that attorney general bar should be impeached and. is how Nadler responded no I. Don't think closers impeachment. Are premature anymore than close to the presence. Impeachment were premature. But they are a waste of time at this point because we know that we have a corrupt. Republican majority in the Senate, which will not consider an impeachment? The evidence, no matter what the facts. So at Gerson, let me turn to you. Chairman Nadler! Their Congressman Nadler's pointing November more than anything. But do you think I mean at what point in time we've discussed a litany of of concerns here, regarding attorney, general bars leadership at the Department of Justice, but at what point in time does it become? Too much that we must actually fully question how bar has led the DOJ. Well I think we can. We can answer that question without needlessly involving ourselves in peach discussions. That aren't gonNA. Go anyplace. Congressman Nadler's is correct about that. Look I. Bill bars right a whole bunch of times. He runs the department in a positive way in a lot of areas where he's really wrong. Is In his view of the Unitary Executive Somehow being a superior to the other branches of government. He enables president trump. It's a symbiotic relationship. the key to the whole thing. Is Not Bill Bar it's Donald Trump. The impeachment hearing that matters will occur. In in November when the when the people get to vote. Justice Justice and the administration had a terrible week last week. In the Supreme Court on the streets of Washington and in the southern district of New, York it was These. Things are adding up We have a very divided country. We have an administration that has gone out of. It's way. To to divide the country, Maga autumn mean to this president. Make America grow apart It's it's That's the source of the problem. BILL BAR is a symptom of that. It's you look at the at the head of the organization. It's the president so congressman. Nadler's correct. There are things related to the Justice Department and the rule of law that are fairly criticized. I agree with Professor Turley that these things ought to be investigated I. Don't think that Congress has done the job that it ought to do. And protecting its its appropriations our for example against intrusions by the president. The judiciary needs protection the the intervention by by the Attorney General in in the sentencings of of a stone, and and Flan and now trying to supersede the judge. Emmet Sullivan in the District of Columbia I think are very problematic. Those things ought to be looked looked at, but the reckoning is gonNA come in November. Well. Point taken about the president being the president of the United States, but I still do I. Don't WanNa. Step fully back from as you say. How Attorney General Bar is enabling a lot of this I mean we have a situation here where I mean as I think we pointed out earlier that. The politicization of the Department of Justice has become so complete that I'll give another example you'll, you'll recall. When federal prosecutors resigned or withdrew from criminal cases, regarding some of the president's former aides, because or just after the attorney general intervened himself to drop charges, or to seek lighter punishment. I mean it's we have gotten to the point to Gerson. Where literally it seems like almost nuff, it's impossible to see anything. Coming out of the justice. Department is anything but politicized, isn't that? A long lasting damage to the DOJ. Well. Look I was around during the Saturday night massacre, which didn't help DOJ either It's a resilient organization. Am I concerned right now? Obviously I am career people with a great deal of skill, judgment and history are being are being ignored, and they're being ignored for political reasons but these things are being exposed and I'm counting on on the judiciary I'm counting on the Supreme Court and the DC circuit the president's batting average. And DOJ's batting average immigration cases arable They've lost other major. Cases there are a few coming up that the Supreme Court has yet to decide where I imagine the administration will get some wins we'll we'll. We'll hear about that, but these problems. These interventions these bad decisions are being exposed public Jonathan. Turley and I agree that there ought to be hearings. There is a legislative aim to such things and congress would be within its ship prerogatives to hold those things. They say Jonathan and I agree about that. We'd like to see it go. We'd like to see it go forward. This information is getting to the public. Thanks to report in. The Wall Street Journal. which which has been quite good about this the post and the and the and the times is well op eds. My checks and balances friends and and Lincoln Project are out there This stuff is seeing the light of day as I say. It's reckoning is GonNA occur several months down down the road. If enough people think it's important hearkens back to Benjamin. Franklin's answer to the woman who asked him what the Constitutional Convention Dud did any any said. We've given you republic. If you can keep it, it's now up to the American public to decide whether they want to keep progressive curly. Just want to respond to that. Student I agree on the unitary executive. Theory in fact when I testified bars confirmation I started out by saying he and I disagreed for thirty years on executive power and I told the Senate he will be a strong advocate of executive power executive privilege that has been his touchstone for thirty years. That doesn't change, and this is where I have a quibble with Stuart's description I don't think that bar is an enabler. I think he honestly feels that. There is a a senator to the executive branch. That is the president. He has certain prerogatives. He also believes that the Attorney General has certain responsibilities to protect investigations from political interference and I think historically. We're GONNA. Look back and I think the bar is going to look better. than he does today, I think that rather than a neighbor. He has tried to protect the Department of Justice as an institution from the worst impacts of the trump White House. He has protected these investigations. It's true. He intervened in Flint, but that was after an investigation found very troubling problems with the Flynn case, and is a criminal defense attorney. I'm astonished that my friends are ignoring what was released recently the Flynn investigation. So I happen to agree with the Position Department of Justice on. It's changed in a sense recommendation. You believe Bill Bar will come out looking. Better in the eyes of history. I, believe he will, because I think that what people don't see is what bill bar does to the protection of the Department of Justice now at the end of the day. I think the way bill views, these issues is what is being decided as to whether it is a presidential prerogative or his prerogative, and he tries the best t enter protect department of Justice and I think he largely succeeded where he has failed I. Think is these types of ham handed moments like we just saw. It does interfere. Interfere the integrity of the Justice Department and yet these answers must be given and I wanNA. Biggest criticisms that have with with with bill bar is that he did make it clear from the outset that this was knocking affect any investigations, but from his perspective I think that he believes that already said that his confirmation that he would never do that and he doesn't seem the need for him to affirm that well. There is a need because stewardess, right? This is a problem of perception so Paula Reid. I hear Jonathan. Turley say on that. He believes bill bars gonNA. Come out looking better in the eyes of history, but at the same time also that some of the actions that attorney general has taken do damage the integrity of the Justice Department I'm going to give you the last word here. Paulo because of the deep reporting. You've done on this i. mean just your large. It hasn't just interfered in the Flynn case he also got involved in. In the Roger Stone case he also appointed to US attorneys to look at whatever it is that Rudy. Giuliani brought back from Ukraine in his suitcases. The investigations that I pointed to those six US attorneys. That's not just reviewing the Russia investigation. That's also whatever Giuliani brought back from Ukraine. That's also looking at the Flinn case other DC cases in addition. He's also appointed US attorney to look into the unmasking. These are all issues that the president has. has showed a personal interest in in while he's allocating all these resources, all of these assurances to make sure that the president the president's allies, the president's personal attorneys. Constitutional rights are protected at the same time. The trump justice department has opened one federal investigation into constitutional policing practices when the previous three administrations opened sixty nine, so there are some clear questions about whether the attorney general is using his gifts. He's very smart. He's very capable to truly. Truly protect the constitutional rights of all people were the the scale has sort of been tipped to really focus on the president, and protecting him and his political interests, and again I go back even his longtime friend. Special Counsel Robert Muller, one of the only times we ever heard from Muller, aside from his testimony was when he pointed to the Attorney General, and said you did not fairly characterize my findings, and of course bars characterization favor the president. Paula Reid is a white. House and Justice Department correspondent for CBS News Jonathan. Turley is a professor of Public Interest Law George Washington University and Stuart. Gerson former assistant attorney general under President George H W Bush, and currently a member of the law firm Epstein Becker and green. Thank you to you all for joining us today to talk about the Justice Department in the last several minutes of the show I. I want to turn to Anthony Brooks. Who's on points twenty twenty correspondent and senior political reporter for WB? You are and Anthony Been Listening along to this discussion about Bill Bar, and of course all of this is coming as president. Trump is trying to restart. His campaign his presidential campaign. He had that rally in Saturday in in Tulsa on Saturday Tulsa. So, what have you been seeing here anthony? Well you know that rally in Tulsa. Let's start there. I mean it was supposed to be the restart of the trump campaign, and it came with a lot of expectations, promises of more than a million people who wanted to intend attended. the O. K.. Center in Tulsa was about two thirds full, so president trump was able to deliver by now familiar campaign speech in that we've heard a lot of these themes going back to two thousand sixteen, he also talked about his record of appointing conservative judges, cutting taxes and deregulations. He bashed the fake news, but MAGNA. I thought what was most striking about. The event was what he didn't talk about what he didn't say you know He. He sort of made fun of the Corona Virus, calling it the Kung flu. He didn't acknowledge the pain of millions of Americans including. The pain of more than one hundred thousand deaths in the pain of pains of those of those families. He didn't acknowledge the economic pain of of a recession or depression. He didn't acknowledge the current Movement for racial justice and protests around police brutality, so it just seemed out of step with the moment, and it's unclear if that message of sort of racial grievance that he brought. is in tune with the moment, and there's going to allow him to capitalize on any effort to improve his reelection prospects that that's what I took away from Saturday yeah, and and there are some things that he did say you mentioned him using that. Basically the the racist term for the corona virus or the the pandemic. He also, said he, he asked for testing to be slowed down as well I mean so there were I hear you. When you say that all the things he didn't talk about. In terms of what's gripping the nation at the moment, but when he did talk about those things I'm not sure I'm not sure how people heard it depending on what their views of the president. Yeah, in terms of that one fact about him, calling for testing to be slowed down, we should hasten to add that the White House quickly sort of fought. Anthony with us. Here. Go ahead. Yeah, he's. We should hasten to add that the White House quickly added about that comment calling for testing. Be Slow down that He was joking, so we should just make that point, but you know I was i. mean the the best you can say about it. It was a terrible joke in a moment of national crisis. Yeah, or maybe it wasn't a joke I. I'm not sure how we can be absolutely positive about that anymore now. We've got about a couple of a couple more minutes here. Anthony you know in the midst of all this. There is a democratic presumptive nominee as well in former vice president. Joe Biden What's the news coming out of his campaign? Well you know, he continues to look like he's in a pretty good position. It's not clear if that's because of anything that he's doing in particular or if it's because of what the president isn't doing. Their new fundraising numbers Joe. Biden outraged president trump and the month of May for the first time he raised like something like seven million dollars more than Donald Trump in the month of May but trump's reelection committee maintains a big advantage, still a overall cash, two hundred sixty five million dollars cash on hand. but you know things are looking up for Biden if you look at the national polls and the battleground state polls, but it has to be said he hasn't been out a lot. Yes, so as the summer heats up, it'll be really interesting to watch how he fares one. It's more of a direct. Contest with Donald. Trump right now. It feels like it's Donald Trump against donald trump. It'll be interesting to watch when it's. Donald trump against nobody's. We've got a minute to go here. Anthony I mean eventually the Biden Campbell have to announce. His running mate to have any Intel on that. No Intel I was struck by Senator Amy Char sort of herself out of the running and saying that Joe Biden would really do best if he focuses on a woman of color So that is causing. You know that seems where Biden is heading. In this moment, it raises interesting questions about the viability of Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. Who is also considered. Among the front runners being considered, so we will see that's going to be a big announcement in coli. August, we expect. Well Anthony Brooks is on point, twenty twenty correspondent and senior political reporter at WB. You are Anthony. Thank you as always Mike Wasserman I'm Meghna Chakrabarti. This is on point.

president acting attorney general US attorney attorney Justice Department BILL BAR Jeffrey Berman Bill Bar New York Department of Justice United States Jay Clayton assistant attorney general Stuart Gerson professor Professor Turley William Bar Donald Trump Rudy Giuliani York
What the Supreme Court's Decision Means for DACA Recipients 2020-06-22

The Takeaway

45:37 min | 4 months ago

What the Supreme Court's Decision Means for DACA Recipients 2020-06-22

"The DOJ had a wild weekend with the Southern District of New York office. What we say for sure is that that office has had its I on this administration, notwithstanding the fact that it's a part of this administration heads roll, but the result might not be what the trump administration wanted out of a chaotic seventy two hours I'm Tanzania Vega. It's the takeaway for Monday June twenty second also on. On the show, the NFL's abrupt change of card player protests for racial injustice was astounding moment that head of our number, one sport in America Kinda come out and be so unambivilant and saying hey, we should be backing social justice movements, and we were wrong in the past, but first DACA survived a supreme court test last week, but program is still on dangerous ground. That's where we start today. I believe this decision today. Is a true incitement of the way President Donald Trump. Does his business. We have tried to say that over and over to America in our eighty four lawsuits against this administration that the way Donald Trump doesn't business is not America's way. That's the way Donald. Trump does business his not according to the rule rula. California Attorney General Vr Bizarre there at a virtual conference on Thursday Thursday was the same day that the supreme. Court ruled against the trump administration's attempt to the deferred action for childhood arrivals also known as Dhaka. Dhaka was established by the Obama. In Two thousand twelve, and it was meant as a way to protect hundreds of thousands of immigrants who were brought to the US as children from being deported president trump tried to end the program in September twenty seventeen, but the move was blocked and the lower courts with the Supreme Court's ruling last week Daca is safe for now for more on this we turn to Nicole Neria, an immigration reporter at Vox Nicole welcome back to the show. Thanks so much for having me ten Zena also with us is show Bussey Opera Saadiyat Director of the Center for Immigrant's rights clinic at Penn, state, law and author of band immigration enforcement in the time of trump show, but thanks for joining us. Glad be here! So Nicole. Let's start with you What does the Supreme Court decision mean for Dhaka recipients. Many of these folks have been here since they were children. And now they're studying. They're working. Does that say that they can continue to live their lives? So dreamers are feeling like they can breathe a little easier for the moment. This is a hard won victory after years of litigation since trump tried to end the DACA program twenty seventeen so last week, at least they were celebrating for many of them. DACA represents their life and livelihood in the US. They've been as you said settled here for years and established families and careers here, so the prospect of being reported as trump administration had said it would. It would do if they lost their daca status would have been very devastating to them, but as you said this ruling really only represents momentary relief, and they still face challenges ahead because trump could still well end DACA. And chauvel! Let's talk a little bit about some of the judges. responses here in the opinion Chief Justice John Roberts wrote the majority opinion. Does it leave the door open for another attempt at dismantling DACA? Well that depends. The court did offer a a victory for the rule of law, and for dreamers last Thursday and answered two questions, I can the case be reviewed by the court they answered yes, and second weather the way the trump administration ended Daca was lawful and two that the court said no and found that the way that Daca ended was arbitrary and capricious under administrative. Administrative Law. So what could happen next? When it comes to the administration, they could follow the roles of what the lower courts do on remand and reinstate Daca as it existed in twenty twelve That's what the face of the decision offers on the other hand. The Department of Homeland Security could decide to write a new memorandum and provide more explanation or elaboration that the. Roberts court found to be lacking and if that happens, maybe there's a possibility for. Dakata to and at some point in the future. And Show, but just quickly we also know that Sonia sort of my your Justice Sotomayor wrote her own separate opinion, criticizing the court for not taking into account trump's past racists and anti immigrant remarks, your thoughts on on that opinion correct, so she did join the decision on Administrative Law, but also wanted to carve out her own position on the equal protection claim and I think these were important words. She found that the words of the president the way he talked about Mexicans for example help to quote create a strong perception that the decision to end Daca. was based on discriminatory Animus so she would've allowed the equal protection claim. Claim to move forward and I think it's interesting because you see that. She shared a similar sentiment when she issued her descent in the travel ban case and found that animists was driving the various versions of the travel ban that excludes people from majority Muslim countries. I think it's also an interesting way to think about where we are as a country now right now just to sort of your was on her own but if we look at the Court of public opinion on the conversation about race and racism in America is surfacing in significant ways, so maybe next time, this claim comes around again justify. Your will not be alone. Nicole do we know stepping away from Dhaka specifically for the moment and looking more sort of at the broader. Landscape here in terms of deportations specifically. We know that there are still folks you know we made the news. Media may have pivoted to covering other topics, but there are still families at the border. There are still people living in in these detention centers. So I'm just wondering Nicole. Can you give us a sense of whether? This moment has affected other deportations or the potential for deportations around the country. While not necessarily this moment particular in terms of Dhaka. I do think that. This has been a loss for the trump administration and immigration has long been one of his signature issues end going into an election year he really is harkening back to the anti immigrant that seemed to resonate with his base in two thousand sixteen, and he's doing that by enacting new restrictions on asylum as well as on legal immigration. On asylum he's been. Really trying to dismantle the asylum system for years now, and it was already incredibly difficult for people arriving at the southern border to obtain asylum. The pandemic has given him the opportunity to implement more stringent restrictions. For example he's invoked a provision of immigration law that allows officials to turn away anyone who could pose a risk of spreading contagious disease and implemented a new program that rapidly returns asylum seekers back to Mexico without even a medical inspection. Or already over twenty thousand people have been expelled through that program including unaccompanied children. He also recently proposed rule that would methodically gut the asylum system in a way that would block most people from the tanning asylum. Even beyond the pandemic, it would vastly expand immigration officials authority to reject asylum seekers applications without so much as a hearing as well as making make it all, but impossible for victims of gang, related and based violence to obtain protection in the US so on the whole trump has really been clamping down on the asylum system is as well as on legal immigration in April. He issued an executive order that temporarily suspended the entire. Entire of issuance of new green cards, and we approve over three hundred and fifty thousand green applications per year, so if trump decides to keep this bannon police through the end of the year, it could really impact hundreds of thousands of people. He is also planning to issue an executive order restricting foreign workers, coming on visas on the premise of protecting American workers, though there's some debate over whether foreign workers actually do displace American workers, and that could affect over two hundred thirty thousand people on, and he said over the weekend that he would announce it by today so so we could well see those restrictions coming down very soon. Chaba Nicole. Thank you for that. Zika important for us to remember the moment that that we're living in that has now just in the past couple of months. Really Become Shall we say intense in the United States were dealing with the coronavirus pandemic. We're dealing with now. The third or almost more than three weeks of continuing protests across the country for Racial Justice Shoba, can you tell us what the role of immigrants has been in uprisings against police brutality that? That, we're seeing right now and are there. Is there any overlap that we're witnessing in terms of the fight for for example abolishing ice and funding the police? Yeah, the those are all great questions and the history of immigration enforcement in this country, bears a lot of resemblance to what our criminal justice system looks like in connecting some of the dots in this moment, even at these very protests where the American public is saying, no more to the deaths of. Unarmed men and women are you have the administration making the choice to deploy ice and C. B P officers to protests to conduct arrests so i. find that troubling on a few levels including, but not just WanNa clarify you said her to to conduct. Arrests ought to arrest whom you're saying that they're ice officials that are being deployed to protest for racial justice and are seeking out what they believe would be undocumented folks. That's certainly one target and what is troubling about that. Is that ICE zone policy? says that it will not conduct immigration enforcement in location, such as rallies and protests, and other overlap is with regard to immigration detention, which is one of the largest forms of mass incarceration in this country, and is one that houses largely Brown and black emigrants, so I think there's overlap when we think about detention and who we detain and deport and this movement. Nicole got about a minute left. Curious about how you think this is going to play out for twenty twenty in terms of the president's reelection campaign, we saw an anemic Over the weekend at his rally and Tulsa than this comes after a week where the Supreme Court ruled against the president, twice including on one of his key issues, which is immigration. What? How's this going to play out in the campaign trail? Minute left. he really seems to be sort of grasping at straws here. in terms of making immigration, one of his core issues, and alienating members even of his own party, in terms of enacting restrictions on immigration, and and also in really clamping down on black and brown communities throughout this this whole. Movement for Racial Justice and I i. it seems that at least based on recent polling that Joe Biden has pulled ahead in recent weeks, but You know it. It's really not clear what will happen in November. I think that could really have an impact for. Dr Recipients who right now are still in a state of limbo. Maria is an immigration reporter at box and show us. Evolve Persad Wadia is a professor at Penn. State Law and the Director of the Center for Immigrant's Rights Clinic. Thanks to you both for joining us. Thank you. The southern district of new. York has a new acting US attorney at least for now Audrey Strauss the current deputy US attorney for the SDN will temporarily replace Jeffrey Berman in the role. The move is just the latest in a string of actions that appear to serve president trump's interests over those of the DOJ Berman was a trump appointee, but his office had led several investigations into allies of the president, including an ongoing investigation involving Rudy Giuliani on. On Friday night. Attorney General Bill Bar announced Jeffrey Berman the US Attorney for the Southern District of New York would be stepping down initially. Berman refuse to go quietly and saying he would stay in his position until the Senate confirmed replacement, but bar then applied more pressure, writing Burma a second letter, emphasizing that it was in fact, the president who was firing him speaking with reporters on Saturday, the president disputed his involvement very capable of dirty general. Not Involved joining me now is a ruin additional Wafa. Justice Department for the Wall Street Journal Arena. Thanks for being with US good to be here. Thanks for having me. With us a Stewart Gerson former acting attorney general of the United States for the first four months of the Clinton administration and Assistant Attorney General before that. Welcome to the takeaway Stewart thanks. So Stewart you spent decades working within the federal government, both for us attorneys and within the Justice Department. What was your reaction to Burma's firing over the weekend? Well. It was of great surprise of course because the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York been vigorous in attacking questions of fraud and corruption over the years. No one's ever heard a complaint externally that Berman was asleep at the switch indeed, he was praised by the attorney general who claims even to have offered him A. Another job at a higher at a higher level which also raises questions, but the fact is that that office was well known it. brought the case against Michael Cohen it. is investigating Rudy Giuliani It has charged of his associates and We know at least on a on a hearsay basis, but a reliable hearsay basis that that office has been and continues to investigate financial arrangements related to this administration that are of questionable nature. And of those financial arrangements you referring to president trump's connection to Deutsche Bank, or beyond well I'm certainly referring to the connection with Deutsche Bank and in that That office also is working on referrals from the Muller, team and the Muller investigation it also could involve the other matters, including Russia Ukraine and and and the light of that, but what we what we can say for sure is that that office has had its eye on this administration, notwithstanding the fact that it's part of this administration that's that's part of the tradition of that US attorneys office of the US Attorney's Office in Washington Which? Prosecuted Nixon associates during the Nixon Administration these offices both are famed for their independence, and for their energy, and it made it all the more surprising that Berman was removed. Arena. We saw as we mentioned at the top, a little bit of chaos, coming out of the dust, this department over the weekend with very public back and forth between Berman and bar I'm assuming that's not reflective of the traditional process replacing a US attorney. Right it's not and even just to step back a little bit. The appointment of a new US attorney when there's only six months in a presidential term is very unusual in and of itself, because you're then at trying to ask the Senate to sort of burn time to confirm a new nominee who may only be on on the job for a few months, and it's. It's unlikely anyone really wants to. To go through that process to potentially only have it for for a few months, so it's all a very unusual time to be doing this and then to do it through a press release on a Friday night eight without having even clarified with that individual that yes, you are going to be stepping down, and then sort of having the chaos of the next eighteen hours play out is very unusual. Stewart to. Point in terms of how this actually went down if you will is that an indication that the president could be really concerned about what Berman's findings were going to be before he leaves office. It's hard to read. a mind like that especially mind that so disordered, but look at the circumstantial evidence it comes on the heels by a day of the Bolton revelations dominating the front page it follows the termination of five inspectors general including the prospective inspector general, who's going to oversee the Care Zach funding with some. Some of which seems to have gone excessive measure to people who were aligned with the with the president. There are a lot of issues of corruption here, and and the it was reported yesterday in a number of outlets that the president had been concerned about the US Attorney's office in in the southern district, starting with the Coen prosecution so I mean that's the evidence that we have, and it suggests an interesting thing. I and others might checks and balances, group and the the Lincoln Project have all been focusing on on the. affronts to the rule of law, and and Thar, Teheran ISM, and it would seem that if indeed the president was involved in this berms, discharge wouldn't have been enforced without the president, so we take it at that, but it looks as if the president is at at the helm with respect to these affronts to the rule of law. Then the Attorney General Bill Bar is just acting as button man. He's carrying it out. They do want to sort of step back and look at bill bars tenure so far. Can you give us some examples of other times? That bars come under fire. Sure and I will also just add that our understanding is that the attorney general and US Attorney Berman had sort of clashed going back from the beginning of bars tenure as attorney general, and he had tried to replace him year ago, and then there were cases that came out that sort of made it politically untenable, and so this has been something that he the attorney general has been trying to do for a while. We don't think that it explicitly was precipitated by anything in a civic investigation right now that prompted it just just to add that, but he has come under fire. From a lot of critics for various decisions that he's made that seemed to be more in line with the president's interests rather than the Justice Department's interests arena on Friday attorney general Bar said the president will be nominating Jay Clayton who is the current chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission to ultimately replace Berman any idea why Clayton. Administration thinks pretty highly of Mr Clayton. He expressed interest in this job at the US attorney in Manhattan and they decided to give it to him. It's an unusual choice in the sense that most people picked for that job have previously been prosecutors, not only been prosecutors, but also prosecutor's office and he was neither and we mentioned again. We have to remind our listeners that Berman was trump appointee. He was appointed by then Attorney General Jeff Sessions so wondering what are congressional Democrats. Saying about his ouster, a lot of congressional Democrats have sort of criticized the move over the weekend, and you have even. Lindsey Graham the chair Republican chair of the. The Senate Judiciary Committee whose committee would have to. I vote on this nomination coming out and saying he had not been consulted, he would defer to the Senate tradition of giving the home. State Senators essentially sort of Victoria power over who the nominee is, and you have both New York senators, coming out and basically calling on Mr Clinton to withdraw his nomination, and so it seems unlikely that he is going to actually end up getting confirmed you know this year. If trump does get re-elected than perhaps he would have a better chance at that point Stuart I'm wondering whether or not you know because we're talking about the system here. Does the system for appointing and dismissing US attorneys. Canopy rework. Does it need reworking? Does this moment call for a reexamination of how this is done? No it really doesn't The Vacancy Act works quite well and you can see it working well in the sense that the administration has shot itself in the foot with regard to this. Explain to our listeners and to me, what the Vacancy Act is because I'm not well versed in that the vacancy act deals with exactly this kind of question what happens when there is a vacancy of a constitutional officer that is one who has been confirmed by the Senate and here where there is a vacancy created by the action of the administration. Who is it that serves in the interim? It is generally a constitutional officer. Officer or the first assistant, and that's where the administration is not getting its its own way what it had wanted to do. Move Berman out. Replace him on an interim basis with the US attorney from New Jersey. WHO has had no other connection with southern district of New York and then proceed with the permanent replacement of Mr Clayton. That's not what's what's happening. that's that's been untracked by a variety of things including. Including the disarray that we've been reading about in the in the protests from from various quarters, and so what is ended up is if there was a question on attorney, general bars, mind or the president's mind that the southern district was acting independently now they get the first assistant. United States attorney serving on an interim basis and she is a professional. She's been involved in the affairs of that Office for a long time. Time. She's a tough prosecutor. She's taken on very worthy adversaries and defeated them in court, and there's very little question that she's not going to do a fine job and be at least as independent minded is the person she succeeded Stuart. Gerston is a former assistant attorney general who served under? President George H. W Bush and Ruina Vishwanath is reporter covering the Justice Department for the Wall Street Journal. Thanks, Cheapo, thank you, thanks. In Two thousand, Sixteen San Francisco Forty. Niners quarterback Colin Kaepernick knelt on one knee during the national anthem to protest racial inequality and injustice. After that the NFL had been very vocal about the league's opposition to Onfield. Player protests this month amid ongoing uprisings across the united. States against police brutality towards black people. The League has reversed that Stamps Reap the National Football League, condemn racism and the systematic oppression of black people. We the National Football League emit. We were wrong for not listening to NFL players earlier. Encourage, all speak out and peacefully grotesques. Read, the National Football League leave Mike Lives matter. That was NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell issuing a public apology on June sixth last week Goodell told ESPN that he would welcome and encourage teams to sign capper Nick who've been shut out of the league since two thousand seventeen, meanwhile other sports leagues including the MLB NBA The WNBA, even Nascar have all shown varying levels of support for the black lives, matter movement and for improving racial equity, but whether the leagues are actually planning to backup those words with action is another matter to talk more about how the sports world. World is addressing racism and player activism. I was joined by Michael Fletcher a senior writer for ESPN's enterprise team was standing moment. You have the head of this kind, our number one sport in America. Kinda come out and sodas. Be so given and saying that. Hey, we should be backing social justice movements, and we were wrong in the past, so it was just a wow moment. Roger Goodell did not mention Colin Kaepernick by name, which is kind of astounding given that Kapernick is the reason why we're even having this. Right now Michael Bennett called Roger Goodell's black lives matter message quote. It was almost like a slap in the face. How are other folks responding to Goodell and the NFL right now? Given this sort of omission of capper nick. Oh you know there's a mix addict. Are Some people who look at it as genuine gesture at least in not only. Did you know Goodell? Make this announcement, but he also pledged a even a quarter billion dollars over ten. To sort of add to the NFL kind of social justice initiatives the fund, some community groups and things like that in conjunction with something called the players coalition, so some people are. They're heartened by that, but at the same time. Many people like Michael Bennett they think it's if not a slap in the face, they is just another sign of rank hypocrisy, and even Malcolm Jenkins who in some. Player now for the new, Orleans Saints, who was a leader of the players coalition, who and who many people in cabinets camp, soy's maybe undermining cabinets interests except an NFL's money to begin with. He even came out and said that cabinet should be given a job in NFL and this. This really is not complete unless that happens the last time you and I spoke Michael. It was regarding the NFL partnership with Jay Z and I'm wondering whatever happened to that. Did they actually make any change for the black community with that partnership? It's unclear only thing we know they're rock. Nation did with the NFL was sponsored last super bowl halftime show kind of bring talent together for that deer was some sort of fan gear branded gear social justice branded gear that was sold in conjunction with this effort, and the proceeds of which would. Would go to community groups, but beyond that it's it's hard to know the main SORTA. The harshest interpretation and I'm not saying I endorse this, but I've heard people say it is that you know essentially league used Jay z's presences cover I, in having this conversation, I'm not only thinking about Colin. Kaepernick, but I'm also thinking about Laura. Ingraham's remark to Lebron James for protesting years ago where she said he should just shut up and dribble. Athletes are doing a lot more than shutting up and dribbling right now, Michael, what is the NBA or the WNBA. Have they been protesting as you look around the world? What's become kind of the? Gesture in this moment is to is to take a knee and you've seen it to NBA players as well and WNBA players most notable I think. Is Lebron James Arguably the biggest star in all of sports in America who launched a campaign for voting rights, and to get people to the polls, and trying to move beyond that realm of protests and move into action that will really bring actionable change, and the WNBA plays have been the same. WNBA is probably the most socially conscious league I think out of all the professional leagues. That I know of those women are plugged in. They're smart and they're active so. It feels like Laura Ingraham's on the wrong side of history here far from shutting up and dribbling, athletes are taken action. Laura Ingraham not to make the segment about her, but she did defend drew brees. Well you know well drew brees? Is We and I'll say this, but you agree it's just a DEF-. Defend for a second of drew. BREES is one of the most generous philanthropists, the NFL, his foundations, giving away millions and millions of dollars to help causes in new, Orleans, and beyond so drew brees has been a good person, but drew bees for a moment sort of. Of went off the rails and and described cap protesters, disrespecting the flag, which of course played into the narrative. That president trump is tried to put out there. There are many people who oppose. CAPITEC tried to put out there and everyone knows that that's far from what cabinet had money but breeze himself was at statement, and even after he withdrew with President trump tried to. To put pressure on him and drew, brees would not yield. He said you know it was a mistake and I don't think it's just a PR thing I. Know Drew Brees personally but I know people who know him and they say that that that's a good dude, and you know he misspoke, or you said many what he meant, but he didn't realize how would be. Be Taken maybe, but he certainly was joined that position Nascar recently announced that they were banning confederate flags in terms of their symbolism. Confederate flags feel like a little old Michael to be banning right now, but apparently they were part of what NASCAR does. What does that signify? There is only from what I understand. There's one black NASCAR driver who is driving around. With black lives matter on his car. That's right. BUBBA WALLACE AND The confederate flag for for for worse if for better west, but just for worse has been assemble that some people have often taken with them to to Nascar races, and it was in that context. People would argue people who would. Who would salute theflag would say I was just a sign of heritage and things like that. It's not a racially hateful symbol, which of course I think, it's preposterous, but nonetheless that's what they'd say. But they banned that knowing that the head of NASCAR made a statement in favor of a black lives, matter and and many NASCAR drivers have backed up I think it just speaks to kind of the astounding moment that we find ourselves in this country. It's really. Striking Emma we've seen and not just sports, but obviously in corporate America. Everyone is uttering the words now. Black lives matter. Obviously remains to be seen what people mean by that, but certainly we're in a moment now to I don't think any of us would have predicted even six months ago. Michael Fletcher senior writer for ESPN's enterprise team. Always a pleasure to have you on. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. And we have an unfortunate update to talk about regarding bubble Wallace. Today Nascar announced that a member of Wallace team found a noose hanging in their garage stall. At the Talladega speedway. The team member then reported the incident to Nascar in a statement. The racing organization said quote. We are angry and outraged, and cannot state strongly enough. How seriously we take this game this act! For a lot of people who are in therapy, dealing with family issues is one of the biggest topics of discussion as we continue to see the uprising for racial justice. We wanted to have a conversation about the unique challenges. Facing black parents, said round out the show we delve into the personal story of one man. I'm Abdul, Ali and the writer I living in Baltimore, and I'm a fellow with the Robert, W Deutsch Foundation this year. Year growing up Abdul had a very complicated relationship with his father. He was absent often on. Certainly he had his own demons that he had to fight, and as a result that led to a lifetime of complicated emotions towards his father, but now Abdul. Himself is a father. And he said he realized he needed to grapple with his feelings towards his dad to nurture his own relationship with his daughter and for Abdul. Therapy was key. And he recently wrote about it for the Boston Globe, but ultimately I think what I wanted to do. And this was something new for me was to try to. Frame him in a complicated light, not just in a negative light, but in a complicated light which meant that I had to see some of those. Moments that we shared together and that's what I tried to capture the Peace Abdul and I spoke about his journey, and understanding the anger, he felt towards exploring his own personal growth to ditch harmful stereotypes. I think that at thirty six. I saw that you know if I didn't make a shift I would become a cliche. I would become an angry black man, and I did not want that to happen, and so I've been doing a lot of work you. You know lots of hours and therapy, and kind of reimagining how I want to be in the world not just for myself, but also for my daughter because it's all connected, you said you didn't want to be an angry. Black Man I often think about how anger is something that black people and more broadly people of color are often not allowed to experience. So, what do you mean when you say you didn't want to be that? So. I didn't find it particularly useful certainly. I. Mean How long can you hold a grudge right? And so it's almost like playing this game of holding your breath underwater. Eventually, someone's GonNa Drown so I wanted to speak truth to power. I wanted to put my self on notice. Put My father on notice, and just you know. Put some different energy out. There I knew first hand that many folks in my age group were going through the same thing, and it's like we gotTa heal ourselves right I. You know we may never get to change the generation, but we heal ourselves first and create some new traditions and trajectories, and our families Abdul One of the things that I find difficult writing from the perspective of a of a Puerto Rican slash New, York. person here Latina is. Wanting to be truthful and also not wanting to quote unquote era, thirty laundry right to largely white audiences That could potentially continued to say. Oh, look, you know you're falling into those stereotypes. How were you able to work through? Some of the the sort of concerns that I think a lot of black and brown people have when it comes to talking about the difficulties in the nuances in our upbringings had I stayed on a superficial level and just talked about all the things I was angry about I. Think I would have been in a stereotypical space, but I would like to think that I went I broke the ice and went deeper than just a superficial level and I got to see you know my. My father as humid as human. We are foll- and were vulnerable and were fragile and sometimes victims to the Times. You know that we were born into in the circumstances that we're born into, but also we can be victorious and try as well and and I think I think I'm a better person you know having gotten to know who he is and you know he's not a passive person. He's a fighter and I would like to think that I. Get some of that from him. Another part of what you mentioned earlier and sort of how you found some healing. In the relationship with your father, at least from your perspective has been therapy something that communities of Color Black and Brown communities are now I think beginning to show some more acceptance to but I think there's still some cultural barriers of in the way there. How did you find therapy worked for you? Were you able to really feel vulnerable enough to? Work, through some of these issues with your therapist. With the right therapist. Yes, you find someone that you feel comfortable with it. You know in my case finding therapists of color. You know where you don't have to explain a whole lot of things and you don't have to worry about the white gays or you know or anything like that I think that is very helpful. and there are resources out there. To help locate you know therapists of color and I was grateful to do that. But for me, I think it was probably a show of strength to be able to say I'm not okay. I've been carrying this and you know and I don't even know what it's like to walk straight because I've been carrying this load for decades and to be able to be in a space where you can put it down and then open it up and see. Is this your stuff you carry or is this someone else's style? And it's great to be able to have that perspective and I think that's that strain I mean I think that? It's important for us to prioritize our happiness, our wellbeing and to not normalized pain because I think that that's kind of a message. I think that we get growing up. This is just the way it is, but I think when you push back on that and say well. Maybe there's another way I think that's where therapy and other things can sort of. Present alternate routes. You know to having the life that you want. I know this sounds very zen and I don't mean to sound that way, but I just think that just taking things as it is, or as it always has been, you know I. Don't know if that's working well for us. So I think that it's time for us to shift gears and try something else. You know for our health in therapy. The question often comes up I think about whether we're looking to accept things that have happened or looking to forgive the people who we feel have heard us in or wrong us in some way. Abdul when you are in therapy or have been therapy as a black man, confronting the issues that you say have affected you for years with your father. Are you at the point of acceptance? Are you at the point of forgiveness, or is that even? was that even a goal for you? I think the to goal was to hand over this heavy load. You know I dunno, bury it. Burn it something. I think I'm at the place where I, I'm sort of working on the forgiving. You know as a writer memory so important so the forgetting. I think is probably the thing that we can't do but I'm certainly I think humanizing my father, not wanting to vilify him, and to look at his life in a larger context of what was happening in our country in inner cities. You know I think that that is really been an interesting journey because that's something I didn't have the capacity to do. When I was younger. It was easy to kind of rely on these tropes. These stereotypes that we hear of. Its journey I'm grateful for the journey and I also accept that things may never be what I want them to be because you can't make up that time, so that heart is a little sad, but I mean what an interesting relationship! He and my daughter have and that's quite interesting to watch. Abdul Lee is a Baltimore based writer and a fellow with Robert. W, Deutsche, Foundation. Thanks for joining US thank you for having me. So. We wanted to hear from you about this. Has Therapy shaped your relationship with your parents? It is immoral Williams and I lived in Andover Massachusetts. There has been tremendously helpful for me in killing from my Lucien ship with my mother, my mom was a single parent and also schizophrenic We had a really come relationship, and early on in my childhood I was the one taking care of her. My mom was very abusive and I learned over time to make peace with her whole rainbow of all find motions about her certainly loved her but I also felt anger shadow small. Compassion and I realized through therapy that it's all allowed. My mom died in two thousand six, and I'm so glad that I was able to find some peace with her, and within myself before she died. Hi, this is Elizabeth Jarvis Colleen from Oakland California. My mother had undiagnosed bipolar disorder in for her line personality disorder. When I was a child, my father worked long hours, and my mom could be very cruel. Brothers became heroin addicts. I didn't want to do the same thing so I got into therapy when I was about sixteen years old, so therapy has been a mainstay in my life and has really helped me. I learned early to accept my mom's cruelty and have compassion for her. Obviously, someone got her when she was very young and it changed to. She was hi. My name is Stephanie I live. In Minneapolis I was lucky enough to find a therapist Pandemic with starting. To Trust US my relationship with my self destructive father He lost his job eight years ago and has never bounced back. He's essentially homeless right now, and there's nothing that anyone. In our family can do to help him. My brother and I have both tried helping him over the years, and she's never been able to help himself or admit that he has his own mental health problems to work through, so it's been really difficult to help him when he can acknowledge that there's a problem and my therapist has been able to help me name these emotions so that I can process what my own emotional needs are being able to name. My feelings brings a lot of clarity to my life and I really believe that there are essential workers. This is man Baker I live in Dallas Texas. And yes. Therapy has helped me. Keel relationships with my parents. I have to learn to say the young. Tell by hidden. And Fund compassion for both my parents and myself. Hi, this is Katrina. From people would high have used their P for relationships of all sorts, but not for the relationship with my parents and I probably should because so much of what we learn. Through our lives is about how we were raised children and was raised in a separate. Home with parents who divorced and all kinds of issues, but I'm okay now for hasn't thought I needed therapy. This is Lynn coin from Chan House, and I guess I participated in years and years of therapy My parents divorced when I was thirteen. My mother moved away and my father's new wife moved into the home. That I grew up grew up in. It was very difficult. Time for me I was angry for many years until I took the time to go extensive therapy as an adult. To understand that my parents are human and had emotional needs of their own. Another Monday in the books folks thanks for being along with us for the ride. We've got a big week ahead of us with a lot of good conversations. We'll be back with you tomorrow. I'm Tansy Vega. This is the takeaways.

President Donald Trump president Times America attorney National Football League United States Jeffrey Berman US Attorney New York Nicole Neria Justice Department Abdul Lee Senate Daca Chief Justice John Roberts Dhaka Drew Brees reporter
Barr vs. the Committee with No Bull

The Lawfare Podcast

1:23:09 hr | 3 months ago

Barr vs. the Committee with No Bull

"If someone went down the street to the pretty mean court here that beautiful courthouse, we have right at the bottom of the hill and start breaking windows and firing industrial grade fireworks into start a fire throw kerosene. And start fires in the court. Is that okay? Is that okay now? Now, the US marshals have a duty to stop that and defend the courthouse, and that's what we are doing in. PORTLAND. We are at the courthouse defending the courthouse. We're not out looking for trouble. In a place like Portland, where even where we don't have the support of the the state and local government. We have to take a stand and defend this federal property. We can get to a level where we're. We're going to accept these kinds of violent attacks on federal courts. But what makes me concern for the country is the first time in my memory that the leaders of. One of our great to political parties. The Democratic Party are not coming out and condemning mob violence and the attack on federal. Courts. Why can't we just say you know the violence against federal courts has to stop. Could we hear something like that? I'm Elena Kagan and this is the Law Fair podcast July Twenty, ninth two, thousand and twenty. Attorney General William Barr testified before the House Judiciary Committee on Tuesday. Bar was asked about the federal government's response to protest the upcoming presidential election, the dismissal of former US attorney, Jeffrey Berman and much more. The hearing did include a lot of. Grandstanding, but we cut out all the unnecessary repetition, an theatrics to leave you with just the questions and answers that you need to hear. It's the Law Fair podcast July Twenty Ninth Barbara says the committee with Noble. Recognize Myself For five minutes and July twenty second you joined the president is he announced the expansion of Operation Legend Initiative. To combat violent crime in Kansas, city with approximately sixty one, million dollars in DOJ grants. I'm confused however as the purpose of launching Operation Legend at this moment in time. In December of last year, you announced that the department would divert over seventy million dollars in grants to. Cities under an initiative called operation ruined this pursuit correct. That's right. and operation. Relentless pursuit targeted familiar list of cities, places like Albuquerque Baltimore and Kansas City. Correct? Correct. At the same July twenty second press conference. You initially claimed that over two hundred arrests had been had been made under Operation Legend CORREC-. Correct. At that, but you misspoke correct the US Attorney's Office for the western district of Missouri. Later confirmed that only a single estimate under the auspices of Operation Legend correct I know. And the other one, hundred, ninety, nine, other arrests were made under relentless pursuit or other programs. That was correct I. Think you could be forgiven for being confused. Operation. Legend appears to be little more than a repackaging of existing operations in these cities. So I all the drama, why joined the president the White House to announce a bold new operation that appears to be neither bold nor new. Understandably Americans are very suspicious of your motives here. There are those who believe you are sending federal law enforcement into the city's not to combat violent crime, but to help with the president's reelection efforts. The president's made clear that he wants that he wants conflict between protesters and police to be essential claim a central theme of his campaign. So let me ask you directly Mr Bar. Yes or no. Yes or no? Did you rebrand existing projects under the? Legend, in order to assist the president in an election year, I wouldn't. I wouldn't torney general. Would you agree with me at least on principle that it is improper for the Department of Justice to divert resources and law enforcement personnel in an effort to assist the president's reelection campaign now? Mr. Chairman in the fall. We did inaugurate an anti-crime initiative because we were concerned about increasing violent crime and a number of cities, and we call that relentless pursuit unfortunately cove intervened and our agents who were detailed for these assignments could not perform. The operation. So the operation was squelched by it. So we couldn't complete or make much progress on relentless pursuit however, and the intervening time we saw violent crime continuing to rise and a lot of that was triggered by the events after. The death of George Floyd. So we did reboot the program after Kovic started breaking and are we could commit the law enforcement resources to actually accomplish. The mission which is to reduce violent crime. Now I regret the covid interrupted our law enforcement activities, but it doesn't obviate the fact that there are serious violent crime in these cities, these police. And mayors have been asking us for help and we have put in a additional federal agents and investigators to help deal with it. Now yes or no? Have you discussed the president's reelection campaign with the president or with any White House official or any surrogate of the president? Or am I going to get into my discussions with the president? Have you discussed that topic with him? Yes. Not. Not. In relation to this program. I didn't answer that I discussed that I'm a member of the cabinet and there's an election going on obviously the topic. Well the topic comes up and cabinet meetings and other things. Is that the topic of the election I didn't say I was surprised I just asked if you've done that. So as part of those conversations with the president. Or it's people about the reelection campaign. Have you ever discussed current of future deployment of federal law enforcement? In connection with what in connection with what you just said in connection with the with your discussions with the president or with other people around him of his reelection campaign. Have you discussed the current of future deployment of federal law enforcement saying I'm not GonNa get into my discussions with the president, but I've made it clear that I would like to pick the city's based on law enforcement need and based on neutral criteria. You can't tell me whether you discuss not going to discuss what I discussed with commit today that the department will not use federal law enforcement as a prop in the president's reelection campaign. With this thought. You really can't hide behind legal fictions this time Mr Bar. It's all out in the open. Where the people can see what you're doing for themselves. The president wants footage his campaign is. And you appear to be serving up to him as ordered. In most of the city's the protests had begun to wind down before you marched in and confront the protesters and the protesters aren't marks, their mothers and veterans mayors. In this moment real leadership, entail deescalation collaboration, and looking for ways to peacefully resolve our differences. Instead use pepper spray and truncheons on American citizens. You did it here in Washington. Lafayette Square expanded to Portland, and now you're projecting fear and violence nationwide. In pursuit of obvious political objectives. Shame on you. Mr Bar, can I just say McCain on you? Can I just? Expired what purposes mister? Johnson seek recognition. Questions for the witness and you'll the Florida him to responded. Chairman give conflated two different things. The effort like legend. is to deal with violent crime crime minutes committing on the streets of the city again, predatory violence like murder shootings which are soaring in some cities right now. That does not involve encountering protesters as you referred to. Civil disturbances a different set of issues and I. Just reject the idea that the department is flooded anywhere and attempted to suppress demonstrators. We make a clear distinction between demonstrators. This time. And? The fact of the matter is Portland. Portland the courthouse has under attack. The federal resources are inside the perimeter around the courthouse, defending it from almost two months of daily attacks where people march to the court, try to gain entrance and have set fires, dethrone things used explosives. and. Injured police including just this past weekend. Perhaps permanently blinding three federal officers with lasers. We are on the defense. It's not out looking for trouble, and if the state and the city would provide the law enforcement services and other jurisdictions, still we wouldn't have no need to have additional. Marshals in the courthouse, the Democrats have asserted here this morning and they continue to say the media that under your leadership, the Justice Department has become highly politicised. Why is that a totally unfounded allegation? Because actually what I? Trying to do is restore the rule of law and the rule of law has had essence that we have one rule for everybody. If you apply one rule to a the same rule applies to bay and I felt, we didn't have that. Previously the department we had strayed and I would just ask people. Supposedly a punishing the president's enemies and helping his friends. What enemies have I indicted, who who could you point to one indictment that has been under the department that you feel is is unmerited. That, you feel violates the rule of law one indictment. Now, you say I helped the president's friend. The cases that are cited the stone case and the flame case for both cases where I determined. That some intervention was necessary to rectify the rule of law to make sure people are treated the same. I said stone was prosecuted under me and I said all along I thought that was a righteous prosecution I thought he should go to jail and I, thought the judges sense was correct. But the line prosecutors were trying to advocate for a sentence that was more than twice. Anyone. Else in a similar position at ever served, and this is a sixty seven year, old man, first time offender, no violins, and they were trying to put him in jail for seven to nine years and I wasn't going to advocate dad because that is not the rule of law I. Agree. The president's friends don't deserve special breaks, but they also don't deserve to be treated more harshly than other people, and sometimes that's a difficult decision to make especially when you know you're going to be castigated for it. But that is what the rule of law is, and that's what fairness to the individual ultimately comes to being real being willing to do what's fair to the individual. President Obama's Attorney General Eric holder famously referred to himself as President Obama's wingmen. He said an interview quote. I'm still enjoying what I'm doing. They're still work to be done. I'm still the president's wing man. So I'm there with my boy, that's what he said famously, is it the duty of the attorney general to be the president's wingman? No I've already described, but I think the duty of the Attorney General in your office, you are then free to act independently of the president. Isn't that true? That is true. Particularly on criminal cases, it's required and that's exactly what he has asked you to do in that, right? Yes. lofgren. It when the President NCP's executive order. They indicated your department should play all tides. Investigations has your departments starting to get any allegations you're to the executive order that the president issued. which. Executive Order Congresswoman. Order that asks for the deployment of troops to protect the monuments and the federal. Yes the. Sex. Trade troops, but the. We have. Initiated Investigations Yes, WE'VE MADE ARRESTS A. Who people who have been rioting and taken down. statues, but I think your characterization of Portland is completely false. I would like to get into that, but I'd like to ask you a question about surveillance if I may. We reports that cell site stimulators known as stingrays. Dirt boxes are being used to collect phone, call location, and Eve content of phone calls. Grills are be used at more fakes initiative or cell phone interest technology, and that there's bulk collection of Internet browsing. Specific, authority is the department using for surveillance tools. I I really can't speak to the to those instances. If in fact occurred I'm glad to go and and try to determine what you're talking about actually a massive according, not the. Well. The I. Think the most of our cyber activities are conducted by the FBI under their law enforcement powers to detect and prevent crime. Federal. Crime. Miss. Turning Channel? Would it be accurate to say that SID ministrations responsibility? Of course, you're part of the administration to see federal laws are upheld and the federal property. Is Secure, and safe and protected. Is that correct? That's right. Congressman Ed. Sort of distinct missions. One mission is to enforce federal law, and by the way, the federal government is the sovereign of the United States, we have to sovereigns here. In the United, states and we enforce the federal law all over the country, every square foot of the country. We enforce federal law. The other is protecting federal property and specifically US court houses, which are the Hark Federal, property and all ninety three jurisdictions in the United States, and we have the obligation to participate to protect federal courts and the US marshals specifically have been given that obligation federal courts under attack since one is it. Okay. To try to burn down a federal court. If someone went down the street to the pretty mean court here that beautiful courthouse, we have right at the bottom of the hill and started breaking windows and firing industrial grade fireworks into start a fire throw kerosene balloons in and start fires in the court. Is that okay? Is that okay. Now, now, the US marshals a duty to stop that and defend the courthouse, and that's what we are doing in. PORTLAND. We are at the courthouse defending the courthouse. We're not out looking for trouble. So as far as the weapons that you mentioned. Let me get this straight. My understanding is that the people attacking the building head? Among other things, rifles, explosives, knives, saws, sledgehammers, tasers slingshots, rocks. Bricks. Lasers missed anything, or, is, that, about. Cover. You happiness some things, but that's a that's a good list. But you know they have these powerful slingshots with ball bearings that they showed. They've used pellet guns, we believe we have found. Those projectiles at have penetrated. Marshalls to bone. And USE THE LASERS TO BLIND A. Blind. The. Marshals. They do start fires, they start fires if they can get into the fire inside or through the windows and they start fires along the outside of the of the courthouse when the marshals come out to try to deal with the fire they're assaulted. General if local elected officials, mayors and city councils and governors did their jobs and kept the peace. Would it even be necessary for federal law enforcement personnel to be there in the first place? And that's exactly the point look around the country even where there are these kinds of riots occurring. We don't. We haven't had to put in the kind of reinforcements that we have in Portland because the state and local law enforcement does their job and won't allow riders to come in just physically assault the courthouse in Portland, that's not the case. General. Some have derisively referred to the law enforcement personnel is stormtroopers and worse. Does that accurately described them? Would you like to set the record straight? No, they're obviously not stormtroopers. You know. Normally we would have a group of deputy marshals in court that would be. In business suits and ties or regular civilian dress. Those would be the deputy marshals says the protective force the court. But after almost a month of rioting in Portland sent in I, think it was around the fourth of July timeframe. We sent in about twenty special operations. Marshall's. And those tactical teams that are you know our patented and protected? So they could deal with this kind of thing up. Until last week I was told we had our stormtrooper from the Department of Justice amounted to twenty nine marshals in the courthouse twenty-nine marshalls. As of last until recently increased I think there were ninety five I was told. Ninety five DHS federal protective service, and other DHS officers trying to protect the courthouse and three other buildings. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to protect federal functions and federal buildings, which are very small part of the city, but the rioters go at them and we have gradually increased our numbers there to try to protect those those facilities. If, the state would come in and and keep peace on the street. In front of the courthouse. We wouldn't need additional people at the courthouse. Thank you MS Jackson, league, and so I asked You, this question does the trump justice department seek to end systemic racism racism in law enforcement I just need a yes or no answer. To the extent, there is racism in any of our institutions in this country and the police. Then obviously, this administration is we'll fully enforces. So you agree that there may be systemic racism to the extent in where I let me continue my line of questioning agree that there's systemic racism in police department civically generally in this country and I'm reclaiming my time journal Specifically, do you understand the violent impact racial profiling and do you support the in racial profiling? Religious profiling in the joy bill including the removal of the strict interpretation qualified immunity, which would leave individuals like Brianna, Taylor and George Floyd without any relief at all. No I'm opposed to women qualified immunity and I don't agree that it would leave the victims of police misconduct. Let me share with you some aspect without any remedy and I'm reclaiming my time. Let me share with you some aspects of profiling after the death of George. Floyd found that while black people make up nineteen percent of the Minneapolis population in nine percent of its please they were on the receiving in of fifty. Fifty eight percent of the city's police use of force incidents. The Justice Department has many tools that it's supposed to reduce police violence, the patent or practice investigations a practice to end bad policing and police violence. It addresses police violence at an institutional level rather just focuses on acute cases. If you understand that, then why has your department only pursued one parent practice investigation since President, trump took office that could stop systemic racism. The if if you read my statement or listen to my state than I, did you specifically acknowledge that there was a difficulty in this country. With the African American community attorney during labs short time high. Answered Don, a pattern and practice. What was the reason? and. You ask me what I thought the response was, and I thought the response to this is in fact. Training of police and I think the police believe that that's a response I was talking to a black. Then let's continue lease Attorney Journal, I wanNA respect you, but I have a short time. You, for example, eighteen. Section to forty two, which makes unlawful. The denial of rights under the color of law can defend the fact that in the first seven months of F., white twenty, twenty federal prosecutors filed only two hundred, forty, two charges to forty two charges. Twenty seven cases in the trump deal Jay, and were you aware that in? Two Thousand and nineteen federal prosecutors to section two, forty, two charges and just forty nine cases in the United States, and are you aware of how many cases we've had? One, hundred, eighty, four, thousand, two, hundred, seventy, four, which means that in Y. Two, thousand, nine, hundred and only about twenty seven out of every one, hundred, thousand prosecutions related to section two, hundred to. To forty two charges. Do you have a reason for that? Yes. I do I, will get you the numbers on it I don't know them off the top of my head, but actually our criminal prosecutions under two forty, one to forty two are extremely strong and are comparable to if not exceed prior administrations. But at the beginning of this year, most of the. Very, few jurisdictions had grand juries that were open. Does back. Mr. Gohmert. It is a dangerous town. Well, let me ask you. I know you know that a US attorneys are supposed to serve at the pleasure of the president. You Know Bill Clinton fired ninety three us. Attorneys on the same day A. do you know what made us attorney Berman think that he was the exception who did not serve at the pleasure of the President? What caused him to think he owned that position? I think part of it was he seems to have had the few that because he was court appointed and there is a provision in law for court appointment of a US attorney is essentially a placeholder until the administration. Get. Somebody. that. He felt he could not be removed by the president because he was court appointed and that's not correct right now. Is brutes or still working for the FBI. He works for the Department of Justice. Well. We have heard so much information about his basically being the go between between the DNC Clinton campaign fusion, GPS Christopher, steele, the Russian propaganda that were incorporated into his dossier and. Klein. Smith. Christopher wray indicated he'd been. Given. The chance to resign go get a better job I'm wondering how long Bruce or is going to be staying where he is. Incredible to me that he's still there. I can't talk about you know individual personnel matters. Chair recognizes gentleman from. Tennessee. For five minutes, Mr Bar. I'm the chairman of the Subcommittee on the constitution civil rights and civil liberties. So this is most pertinent hearing me. Firstly, I'd like to ask you if you will. Work with US and allow the head of the Civil Rights Division Assistant Attorney General Eric Dry Band to testify before this committee this ball. I'll talk to him about it. We encourage him. I'll talk to him about. All right I've closely watched actions taken by the Federal Government Lafayette Park in June. When did you first learn that the president planned to walk through the park and go to Saint John's church? I I'd like to respond to what you would you please my question. My Time is limited. I, learned. Some time in the afternoon that the president might come out of the. White House and then later in the I heard that he might go over the church. Mr Collins is recognized for five minutes. The other question I have is you've heard earlier today, the stormtrooper comments by the speaker of the House, and we know that that is a direct reference to the paramilitary wing of the Nazi party stormtroopers going at it. The you believe that that actually puts our law enforcement community at a whole. A son of a State Trooper, I? I. Want to know you're being. Is it don't you think it? It encourages the violence that we're seeing encourages the participation against the police I think that's possible and I think it's responsible to call these federal law enforcement officers, stormtroopers. Do you believe that there was actually a basis to go after General Flynn? I mean what we've seen so far? What's been releasing especially keeping an investigation open Peter Struck, kept it open? Do you believe there's actually a basis for the beginning of this investigation to star with? Continuing it well, I. Asked another US attorney in Saint. Louis who had ten years in the FBI ten years in the Department of Justice. As a career prosecutor to take a look at it, and he determined based on documents that had not been provided to flint side and not been provided to the court. That in fact, there was no basis to investigate. And what are their more? It was clearly established by the documents that the B. I. Agents interviewed, Him did not believe, right? He thought he was lying or there's another part of this as well that concerns what has been given to the courts and in the interviews in that is that the facts were not disclosed Flan prior to the interview. Seems. Like a brady violation to made. You believe that was brady violation there in this case. No there wasn't a violation there, but I, think what the? Council concluded was that the only purpose of the interview? The only purpose was to try to catch them in saying something that they could then say was allies and therefore, and therefore, there was not a legitimate, the interview was untethered to any legitimate. Investigation, but I have another problem and I've talked to you about this. And that's down with the District Attorney John in Fulton County Georgia actually charging. Majoring felony, murder charges, own officer, and the interesting part about this is, what we do is is is prosecutors do, but were you aware that the dish Carney failed to seek an indictment from a grand jury or even waited for GB investigation to finish before bringing those charge? Were you aware of that? As an attorney and again looking at this with the environment, we have right now with police officers constantly under attack from from this comedian from others and all of the country, and especially from the speaker of the House as an attorney in especially at prosecutor. Appropriate to charge a law enforcement officer with a crime severest felony murder without giving investigation more than a mere days and without obtaining an indictment from the grand jury, and while you announce the charges lay out a case, it is full of falsehoods. I've said that I would have preferred and that he had used the grand jury and had waited till the Georgia. Bureau had completed its investigation, appreciate your help and adding without a yoga. Mis- Mister Johnson from Georgia I'm should we can agree. On some things we disagree on a whole lot, but I'm sure we can agree on the fact that president trump is just a prolific tweeter. Isn't that correct? He seems to be. And he tweeted many times about the Roger Stone's sentencing, Disney. I don't know how many times he tweeted about many times and you're aware of them because you said, it would. Hurt you from doing your job and isn't it true that when prosecutors in the Roger Stone Case? Filed a memo with the court, recommending a sentence of seven to nine years in prison. A few hours later president trump tweeted that sentence recommendation was a disgrace. that. Yes. In general bar several hours that that. You filed the pleading with the court stating the sentence recommendation would be changed and that you would be asking for a life sentence for Roger Stone. Isn't that correct? Now, what what is correct is that? What is corrected on February tenth Monday. I gave instructions as to what the time. In, answering your question, you gotta let him answer maiming time reclaiming my time and I know you don't want to answer. But the facts are clear. Sentencing recommendation made in the morning tweet in the afternoon, you change the sentencing recommendation that tweet tweet was not in the afternoon. The tweet was made it. I think one thirty or two in the morning. Tweet was made before and after tweet tweeted about that relentlessly and you've agreed to that. Now when you file your sentencing recommendation asking for a lower sentence, I? Didn't ask for lower. That you were going to recommend a lower sentence and you know I. Wasn't the sentence that was recommended by the line prosecutors. Supporting. To The sentencing guideline calculations, it was within it was within the guidelines, but it was not within Justice Department policy view general boy, you're expecting the American people to believe that you did not do what trump wanted you to do when you change that sentencing recommendation and lowered for Roger Stone. You think the American people don't understand that you were carrying out trump's. I. Was not I had not discussed. Might sentencing recommendation with anyone at the white? House. Or anyone outside. To do. And that's what you did. No. Let me. Ask You. Do you think it's fair. Do you think is fair for sixty seven year? Old Man Reclaim? Maybe be sent to prison for seven to nine years was in accordance with the sentencing? No, it was not. As attorney does not the depart Herbert Walker Bush. You never change the sentencing recommendation for a friend of Herbert Walker Bush did you. Know as I recall. All right. No and over the course of your time is nothing was elevated to. Mr Buck is recognized for five minutes. General Bar. This has to stop. We can't let mtpa continue terrorizing our country. Can you please tell us about the appropriate use of civil and Criminal Rico statutes to address violent criminal groups like Antifa? In the in the wake of the beginning of these riots I asked our joint terrorism task forces the FBI's joint terrorism task forces around the country. to. Be Our principal means of developing evidence and prosecuting. Violent extremists, terrorists who are involved in these activities and one of the tools obviously we would uses Rico, can be used against an organisation, but that doesn't mean that we currently have a rico case. and. The chair recognizes Mr Deutsch for five minutes. You just told us that nothing was ever elevated to me. You had said. An. Interview recently that there's a process in place and esscalation system is the responsibility to resolve it. How is this elevated to you the case of Roger? Stone? On Monday February tenth us attorney was with me and he raised the issue with me. So it was aided by Timothy Shay. Yeah and. had. It been elevated. During, the two months between the time, the conviction came in under the former US attorney and. And the time that Timothy Shay started. I think shame may have had conversations with people and the did you ever have conversations with former US attorney about this case? About the sensitive I don't recall any discussion about stone, right? So Timothy Shay. You said in the interview that he was new, you just started. He's he was nobody worked for you for a long time to me. Yes. Most this job for you. Well, when I was Attorney General thirty years ago, he were known announced just now. He he was on my staff. He advised you on on criminal justice policy and law enforcement, right? Correct. And you act you named him acting US attorney. Had You discussed stone case with him before you named him acting attorney? No. Did you discuss sentencing with them not before the first time was when he came in and it wasn't Monday actually to. Refresh election in prior and every you said, he came in the week before he came in to see some senior staff. That's know. That's what I said. He may have. He may have had discussions with people deputies because I was not involved in those discussions. Basically I didn't. As far as I. No substantive involvement in stone until Monday. When he came in in the morning while the I'm so missed errol the week before when he came to see the the senior staff that he had worked with the week before when he was working on. I. Think he had raised it with people in the deputies off at senior staff to I. Understand. I was not involved. He started he started on July thirty first the first week he was there. He came to raise this issue I. think he started February first right the first week he was there he came into your office to raise the issue of sentencing. In the interview ABC's I. Don't think he came. That's that's what you told. ABC News. You said that he's talked senior staff, not you perhaps, but he talked to senior staff. That I think I speak English I said that before he came in to see me I believe he had some conversation conversations senior staff, right? That's right. Before you can see we're saying the same thing I. I it was raised with me was on Monday was, did you talk to the senior staff after they spoke with him? I think at nine o'clock. They said that. He was trying to work something out on sensing and he's actually optimistic that something could be worked down. So I didn't think of it as an issue until that Monday when he told me to then. Then He. So then they filed, he filed the sentencing memo in the sentencing call for seven nine years. It's the policy of the US Attorney's Office to suggest a specific guideline range which. which they did, and then you overrule the line prosecutors they ask for a lower sentence. And you gave some reasons you talked about health health is to be considered only for an extraordinary physical impairment. Did that apply to Roger Stone? Missile Attorney General. Guideline, said, well, actually I can't. I can't reveal all the info. I'm not asking what is health was but apply no A. And did it. Apply his health. was. Allenton. Health. Is it reason? Is that the reason for Roger Stone? Very, you're asking for a lower sentence. Let me go on. It says. Go on. Ice Taking an age can be consideration. It says only if it creates conditions that have an unusual degree and distinguished the case typical cases, he was sixty seven grade with a congressman. Asked. Ms Robey. Do. You believe that Congress is adequately funding programs that provide state and local agencies with the tools that they need. To be effective in preventing and pursuing crimes such as child exploitation, and human trafficking. Particularly, over the Internet. I think we could always use more resources for that congressman, but but if I could just have a moment of your time to respond to these questions here on. That were being asked about the Roger Stone sentencing. The. US Attorney came to me and said that the four line prosecutors were threatening to resign unless they could recommend seven to nine years. But there was no comparable case to support that it would have been very disparate sentence. All the cases were clustered around three year sentence for that, and the way they had gotten to the seven to nine was by applying an enhancement and there, and there are debates all the time within the Department of Justice about the proper calculations under the guidelines whether a particular enhancement applies or doesn't apply and those are usually worked at solve. But here they were saying that they were taking enhancement that has traditionally been applied to mafioso and things like that. Threatening a witness, applying it to him because he had a phone call at night where he told a witness that if you WanNa get it on, let's get it on and I'll take your dog and we felt that technically could apply. But in this case, it really didn't reflect the underlying conduct and the overarching requirement at the Department of Justice that we do not presume automatically apply the guidelines. We make individual assessments of the defendant and what is really just under the case and nothing that is excessive and. Individuals trying to force the US attorney. Who was new in the office to adopt seven to nine, and I made the decision now? We are going to leave it up to the judge and that later when that was not done that evening, I told people, we had to go back and correct that the next morning. so that's the sequence of events, but the end of the day. The proof of the pudding in the in the eating, the judge said, she would not have gone along. She didn't think with the first recommendation because the enhancement artificially inflated the exposure of the defendant and she came out exactly where I had come out. So at the end of the day, the question is fairness to the individual and even though I was going to. Get a lot of criticism at the end of the for for doing that. I think at the end of the day, my obligation is to be fair to the individual. Best Attorney General Bar when it comes to police engagement last. August, when speaking the national fraternal order of police, you shared your views on police engagement with the public you stated and I quote, underscore the need to comply I, and if warranted complain later, this will everyone safe. The police subject, the police sub suspects, and the community at large, and those who resist must be prosecuted are repeat zero tolerance for resisting police. This will save lives. Do you stand by that statement? Yes I think it's very important. Zero tolerance attitude is costing lives not saving them especially in communities I'm not not saying I reclaim my time. Do you know how frequently ketamine is used by law enforcement to subdue civilians? Especially, people of Color No. Did, you know if police departments have been documented as directing paramedics, EMT's to eject ketamine during arrests. Have you well, then I guess you haven't evaluated the use of force tactics by because since becoming a g an specially, this particular tactic of seduce subduing suspects with Ketamine, not with respect academy, will you commit to directing the department to evaluate the protocols around the use of ketamine choke holds and other methods used by federal law enforcement officials when making arrests are detaining subjects. Absolutely under the president's executive order are reviewing. Thank you and especially to force. With police departments, especially, the Ketamine. That's pretty outrageous. said that under the executive order? The administration is looking at chokehold. What have you determined so far? Well, we're we're Shutting up system of certification of police departments in part of our charter is, is the come up with a criteria that will be used for certification including limitations on use of force specifically including chokehold, and what is your view of a national registry of law enforcement officers of the second aspect of the president's executive order is to set up a database like that. So that all determinations excessive force around the country, go into that database, and if police department reporting that information, they wouldn't be certified. So we do believe in one national point where you can go in and get a determinations of excessive force on who enforcement candidates for jobs. You've recently said that you believe Antifa to be a terrorist organization. What's your basis for that belief? Are. A terrorist organization. I said, we're investigating it as domestic terrorism but. in Thika. There a number of a violent extreme groups in the united. States and they're across the spectrum ANTIFA is heavily represented in the recent riots. That's not to say they're the only group involve. and a they have been identified as involved in a number of the of the violent mob actions that have taken place around the country. and Mr Attorney. General. I saw the chairman of the Judiciary Committee. Recently say that Antigua's a myth. That, their involvement in this violence isn't something that that is real. What's your reaction to the chairman, but I don't think it's a myth. ANTIFA is is Can Be. Best Thought of I. THINK AS A as a umbrella term for what is essentially a movement comprised of loosely organized groups around the country and some of these some areas of the country. There are a number of groups and there are sort of centers of activity. The groups. As I say are loosely organized, but they are definitely organized But as since they have an anarchic temperament, they don't get along very well with each other. So got suggesting it's a national organization that moves nationally. They tend to to get organized for an event and There's a lot of. Organization right before an event occurs, but we see a lot of the organization during the mob file. Have you given consideration to the risk that might befall other American communities if the Department of Justice were not to take action to protect and preserve federal property in places like, PORTLAND? Yes. Absolutely. We are concerned about this problem metastasized and the country. And so we feel that we have to do. In a place like Portland, where even where we don't have the support of the the state of the local government we have to take a stand and defend this federal property. We can't get to a level where we're. We're going to accept these kinds of violent attacks on. Federal. Courts Gentleman, goes back, Mitch Richmond. Let. Me also say you mentioned bogus Russia Gate in your opinion, as attorney, General of the United States of America. Russia, interfere our attempt to interfere in the two thousand, sixteen election. Yes. In your position is determined general, the United States is Russia attempting to interfere in the twenty twenty presidential election. I think I think we have to assume that they are. Thank you, sir. Now. Let's talk about the integrity of the election, which is also something Congressman Lewis. Fought for jared. Kushner. Implied that the president could move the election day. Can a sitting US president move in election? Day. Actually, I haven't looked into that question under the constitution. To US code section seven says, proud election day is the Tuesday after the first Monday in November. So if you take that is correct statute. Is there any? Action. By president never been asked the question before I've never looked into it. As Attorney General. United. States, do you believe that this twenty twenty presidential election will be rigged? have. No reason to think it will be. A president trump tweeted. That the election will be rick, but he also tweeted that when he was losing to Hillary Clinton and he tweeted that. Day. After it was box showed that he was losing to trump, but I don't want to be too political. Do you believe as the Torney General of the United States? That mail in voting will lead to massive voter fraud? I think there's a high risk that it will. Do you ever vote by mail in ballot. Apparently, I, did once at least. But. You believe that other people voting by mail could lead to massive for how what I've talked about made very clear is that I'm not talking about accommodations to people who have to be out of the state or have some particular need not to a inability to go invoke. What I'm talking about is the wholesale conversion of election to. You voting. You do understand that. African Americans disproportionately. Do not survive covert. Nineteen. Corona. Virus, you are aware that I didn't hear the question. You are aware that African Americans black people disproportionately die from covid nineteen corona virus. Correct. I. Yes. I think and not that it would be. The first time that African Americans were risk their lives to vote in this country to preserve its democracy but the suggestion is that. Them having the ability to vote by mail would somehow. Lead to massive voter fraud, but I won't stick to that. No. I didn't say that I just stayed I. Think what is a reality? which is that if you have wholesale mail voting substantially increases the risk of fraud that doesn't make it lightly said now also saw on TV that the president said, he's not sure that he'll accept the election results. Can a president just protest because he lost election? Protest chance. Woken a contest election just because he simply loses Gore versus. Bush Gore. was over a slim voter margin. I'm talking about it is very clear that the president has lost. The election does he have a remedy to contest the election not that I'm aware of? Let me go back to what? Representative Bass mentioned. You mentioned the number that there were eight. African. American. Killed by the police, an eleven white people killed by the police. She gives you. If you use those numbers, that's eighty. Five percent of that population is why fifteen percent of that population is black. But if you actually look at the deaths according to the numbers, you just gave forty, two percent of the deaths are African, American, and fifty, eight percent of white. That is A. Glaring disparity in terms of population, and I just give you those numbers. Early because I feel just it by WHO by. The race of the criminal. No I just did that for you. I'm using your numbers and according to your numbers. African Americans are four or five times more likely. than their percentage of the population to be killed by police than their. Actual I just wanted to give you that based on your numbers. Actually, the studies I've seen have suggested two things. One that in fact. Police. Are less likely. To shoot at a black suspect, a little bit more likely to shoot it white. However, that black that police are are more inclined to use NONLETHAL FORCE IN A. Contact, with an African. American suspect. So those are the those in terms of the statistics. That's what it looks like to me. Mr Jordan is recognized. Thirty Eight People Unmasked Michael Flynn's name forty nine times in a two month timeframe. Seven people at the Treasury Department. Unmasked Michael Flynn's name. Is this an issue that Mr Derm looking into? I've asked another US attorney to look into the issue of unmasking because of. The high number of unmasking and some that do not. Readily appear to have been. In the line of normal business, wait a minute I want to be clear. So there is there is another investigation on that issue specifically going on at the Justice Department right now. Yes. Mr Durham is looking at how the whole trump. Russia. Thing started. You have another US attorney. Can you give us that US Attorney's name or is that something you're doing John Bash of Texas John Texas is looking specifically at the fact unmasking. Is Funding, the police. A rational policy. No I think if anything more concerned that the police be adequately funded today and get more resources, a lot of the things we need to do to address, some of the concerns people have about what they saw in. Minneapolis, we're GONNA take some resources some of the training. That we have to do and one of the difficulties in our country difficulty, it's a fact we have eighteen thousand for US agency, some most very small, and so we have to find a way of training. Making sure the training is pushed out dangerous dangerous to defunding police, extremely dangerous gentleman years Mr Jeffrey. Let's the Attorney General. What will you do if Donald trump loses the election on November third but refuses to leave office on January? Twentieth. If. If the results are clear, I would leave office. Do. You believe that there is any basis, all legitimacy to donald trump's recent claim. That he can't provide an answer as to whether he would leave office. I really am not familiar with these comments or the context in which they occurred. So I'm going to give commentary on. Okay. Thank you. You just stated that publicly about a week ago to Fox News. Is recognized. was there violence and attempts to burn down, vandalize the building and attack? Civilian employees of the federal government prior to any other federal agents or the reinforcements being sent in a federal agents. My recollection is our our main effort to reinforce was around the fourth of July period and had been going on for quite a while before. Can you do you want to expand on right on the actions regarding Lafayette Lafayette Park? Right. So I two, thousand, nine, thirtieth and thirty. First, there was unprecedented rioting. Right around the white. House very violent. During that time, as you say, about fifty park police in comparable numbers, my recollection of Secret Service So we had about nine, I think around ninety officers injured. I'm talking about things like concussions. One was operated on and so forth. we had the president was so bad that as it's been reported, the Secret Service recommended the president down to the. We had a breach of the Treasury Department. the historical building on on Lafayette, Park was burned down the lodge saint. John's was was set on fire. Bricks were thrown at the police. Repeatedly, they took crowbars and pride up the pavers at on Lafayette, Park and through those at the police balloons of caustic liquid thrown on the police and It was clear when I arrived at the white. House on Monday. There was total consensus that the we couldn't allow that to happen So close to the white. House that kind of rioting, and therefore we had to move the perimeter out. One block, push it up toward street, and there was already a plan in being at that point that the police the secret service had worked out the night before. which was to put the perimeter further away and then give them time to put a non scalable fence across the northern part of the park. During the day during Monday, the factors that led to the timing of it were that that movement was going to be made as soon as they were enough units in place to actually perform it and units were very slow in getting into place throughout the day much my frustration because I wanted move. Before there was a big buildup of demonstrators. and also the fencing had to be delivered and when things were accomplished, the tactical a commander in charge of the park police proceeded with the with the movement of pushing he. The perimeter. So this was this was something conceived of long. Before didn't turn on the nature of the crowd although I would say the crowd is very unruly and and while the tactical considerations were made by the park police you know they tried to respond to the situation to say that this had to do. The photo is I don't mean to analogize this to a military operation, but it's Ken this saying that we invaded the Philippines in world. War. Two. So Douglas mccarthur could walk through the surf on the beach. One follows the other, but we did not invade. Philippine. So Douglas McArthur could walk to the beach. Generally back. Mr Swallow. At your confirmation hearing you were asked, do you believe a president could lawfully issue a pardon in exchange for the recipients promised not incriminating? New said. That would be a crime. You were asked, could a president issue a pardon in exchange for the recipients promised to not from him and you responded? No, that would be a crime. Is that right? Yes. Said, you said a crime. You didn't say the wrong. You didn't say be unlawful. You said you'd be. And when you said that that a president swapping pardoned silence, a witness would be a crime. You were promising the American people that if you saw that you would do something about. Is that right? That's right. Now Mr Bar, are you investigating Donald Trump for commuting the prison sentence of his longtime friend and Political Adviser Roger? Stink. No. Why Not Why should I? Are. You familiar with the December third two, thousand, eighteen tweet were Donald Trump said Roger. Stone had shown guts by testifying against him? No I'm not familiar with that. You. Don't read the president's tweets. Well. There's a lot of evidence in the president's treats Mr Attorney General I think you should start reading them because he said, Mr Stones. Choke guts, but on July ten of this year Roger Stone declared a reporter. I had twenty nine thirty conversations with trump during the campaign period. Trump knows I was under enormous pressure to turn on him. It would have eased my situation considerably, but I didn't the prosecutors wanted me to play Judas. I refused. Are you familiar with that stone statement? Actually. I'm not. So how can you sit here and tell us why should I investigate the president of the United States if you're not even aware of the facts concerning the president using the pardon or commutation power? To swap the silence of a witness. Because we require you know a reliable predicate before we open a criminal investigation and I just gave you side I. Don't consider I considered a very rube. Goldberg feary that you will. It sounds like you're hearing the and by the way by. Is surrounded NBA a lot to be a lot more people under investigation. Mr Attorney General. The very same day that, Roger. Stone's said that Donald. Trump. That's one of the no surprise standards of justice. We're really during the tail end of the Obama. General. Let's turn to the Michael Cohen, case. Are. You aware Sir that Michael Cohen after being released from prison was asked not engaged with the media including to write a book. Were you wear that that was going to be asked of him? Was I aware? Yes. No. Do you know if anyone else in your department was aware. Maybe, I should tell you what happened. Why don't you tell us what? He was furloughed from the Bureau of Prisons No. Why don't you tell us why he was asked I was telling you because something that people don't seem to understand is that his home confinement was not being supervised by the Bureau of prisons and it was it was being supervised by the Probation Office, which is part of the US court system, and it was the US court system that had the requirements about. That US court system called your actions retaliatory. that. So I know is what I what has been said in court before the judge and in the record, this is that the individual. was then called by the US court system saying that this Guy Cohen is uncooperative, he's not agreeing to the conditions and at that point bureau of Prisons, person made the decision that he was no longer eligible for home. Instead of federal judge said, no other inmate had ever been asked of in his experience gentleman's time expired Mr Liu. Thank you. MR, chair. Thank you Mr Bar for being here today like ask you some questions about the legal standard for seizing arresting protesters. Under the fourth amendment, it requires probable cause before you can season. A protest there. Correct. Yes. Okay and their probable cause has be particularized to a particular person. So, if a protester was merely standing around a crowd in vicinity of someone else suspected of criminal activity, you cannot arrest that fees for protesters. In other words, there's no such thing as probable caused by mere association. Correct. Not Strictly, but I'll say that you know you do need particularized probable cause. Okay and if there's no problem with 'cause, there's someone sent to a getaway car on their three or four people in there. That might be enough to give you probable cost. Just those circumstances. You needed an each claiming, my kindness, her attorney general, there is no problem. 'cause you can't arrest a protest. Correct. I said at the beginning arrest has be predicated on probable cause. Are, right now and arrest can also occur whether or not. The federal official says, it's an arrest. So for example, if federal officer cakes or protester into custody transport that protests that are, let's say a federal building detains a person for questioning that will constitute an arrest whether or not. That federal official says, the is under arrest correct. That would require very intensive. Review of all the specifics involved. Actually In the case of dunaway versus New York, which is black letter law for over forty years. The question is whether the police violated the fourth and fifteenth amendments when without probable cause to arrest, they took petitioners into custody transported, Hampshire, police, station Eddie, paint him for questioning. The answer is, yes. That would constitute an early answer is that you know fourth amendment is ultimately governed by reasonableness and there can be circumstances. The question sometimes is, when does something actually become claiming my time? Federal Forces and Portland did was unconstitutional. Federal Forces. In full combat year in a dark of night. Grab a protester was peacefully standing there forced them into an unmarked van drove entries separate location searched in detained and questioned him. That is a police states do. Joe US veterans. Let's go. Thank you Mr Chair since representative Lewd and allow you any time to answer his allegations. Would you care to answer any of his allegations? Yes. Obviously, I don't know all the particulars of any individual case out there but. Based on my general understanding of what had happened was that when they tried to affect wait arrests of the ringleaders, the people are engaged in violence that they saw with lasers and so forth and they went out, they're immediately swarmed by people in Black, and there was a lot of violence. So they couldn't affect the rest. So the modus operandi was changed and based on specific information as the individuals who were seeing doing things and identified, they later tried to pick them up. When there was less of a risk of this kind of mob response. The fact that if you have information that someone has a laser and his using it, and later pick him up and he doesn't have it. It doesn't mean that there wasn't probable cause. It means he doesn't have the laser. The question is you know, was it reasonable for you to rely on the information that you had? Had and the identification of that individual and some cases, it could be a missile identification and other cases. It could be the person you know ditch the laser. So there is a distinction between whether the person ultimately can be shown to have violated the law, and whether there was probable cause for the police to make the inquiry and take him and interrogate him or ask them questions at least. Why do you think these autonomous zones in democrat-led cities are dangerous to America. Starting with the. Dangerous because. They are purporting to keep on the outside duly constituted authority of the government. There also to me outrageous because these the people who were living now under this autonomous zone having selected the government, they've selected the duly authorized government of the city and the state. So it's quite an outrage that people would would take US force to take over an area. What what makes me concern for the country is the first time in my memory that the leaders of. One of our great to political parties. The Democratic Party. Not Coming out and condemning mob violence and the attack on federal courts. Why can't we just say the violence against federal courts has to stop. Could we hear something like that? Committee will resume. Mississippi Cellini. Is it ever appropriate for the president or presidential candidate to accept or solicit foreign assistance of any kind in his election? No, it's not appropriate. You forcefully condemned processes this morning, but let me ask you Sir why have you not condemn the federal office? You're sending into cities without proper training or attempting to take away the concentration constitutional rights of Americans peacefully protesting are having condemned protestors. Protestors are good demonstrations are good part of the first. amendment. Condemning his people commit crime. We agreed you think it's ever appropriate Mr, BAR officers to use force against peaceful protesters. Yes or no? Not against peaceful protest. So you also don't mention in your statement today or your testimony that federal offices have even teargassed elected representatives. So let me ask you, sir, do you think it's ever appropriate to use tear gas on peaceful protesters? Yes or no? Well the problem in these things sometimes occur because it's hard to separate people, Mr Bar, my question is very specific. Do you think it is ever appropriate to use tear gas on peaceful protesters? Are. Now. It is. It is appropriate to use tear gas when it's indicated to disperse peaceful version, unlawful assembly and stir unfortunately peaceful protesters are affected. Mitsubishi's recognized. Isn't it true? The inspector general found the FBI under the Obama Biden administration made seventeen significant errors in the applications are avail candidate trumps can't pain, associate. Carter. Page. I. Think. That's right. How many years are acceptable when the FBI is targeting Americans. None are acceptable. Why is it so important for surveillance targeting Americans to be Arafat. Well. Especially, under under five which Is a counter intelligence tool and doesn't have the same built in protections that the criminal justice process would have. It's very important because you're going to be. Spying. On Americans that you have you know you've demonstrated an appropriate basis for doing that and Therefore. There's a special burden on the investigative agency. In this case, the FBI to have accurate information as to the basis of their surveillance. and. I think the bureau is has been working very hard to correct those problems into put in place much more. Effective system of. That the information is accurate. Yield the remainder time Mr. Jordan. What's What's more important government putting limits on? Protesting are putting limit on attending church. Are they're both first amendment. Exact. Exactly. We should treat an assumption we. Gentleman's time's expired mistrial Paul. He was Mr Brian Heroically. The president believes that you can be activated to implement the President's agenda and dominate American people exercising First Amendment rights if they're protesting against him, but let's look at how you respond when the protesters are supporters of the president. On two separate occasions after President Trump tweeted, liberate, Michigan to subvert, stay home orders to protect the public health of people in Michigan. Protesters swarmed the Michigan capital carrying guns, somewhat swastikas, confederate flags, and one even with a dark-haired doll with a noose around its neck. Are you aware that these protesters called for the governor to be lynched shot and beheaded? No. You're not aware of that or was not were major protests in Michigan. You're the attorney general and you didn't know that the protesters called for the governor to be lynched shot and beheaded. So obviously, you couldn't be concerned about that. Well, there are a lot of protests around the United States and on June. Worried about the district of Columbia which. Parts of the country. You're very aware of those when protesters with guns and I'm very. Aware of like pro. Time and I control it. Dollar Eddie. Let me just could. I just ask for one minute though do respond yet. As I made clear moving H street out to is street as the perimeter was a decision made The day before it was justified by the extreme rioting was going on around the White, house? I don't remember Captain Demarco. Who has the same captain DeMarco who ran as a Democratic candidate for Congress and Maryland even being close to the discussions as to what was going on? Now. The fact is that the movement was not geared to the behavior of that particular crowd. It was geared to the fact that we were moving the perimeter actually could put a fence up on h street by h straight. So, but it is a fact that the park police reported and I saw myself projectiles being thrown from that crowd. So I did not consider them peace all peaceful protesters and I'm sorry, thank you for giving me that. What about the autonomous zone in Seattle? Carswell John Paul has said and I quote that it's a peaceful protests zone. Is it a peaceful protest zone? No I as I already said, it's outrageous that people set themselves up and over a piece of territory where the people in there have not selected them as the government and try to exercise sovereign authority. That's an outrage and. We. People handing out guns to uh. People to quote, keep the peace and so forth. It was anarchy there. Gentleman, yields back demings. On June nineteenth, you annouce Mr Berman would be stepping down. Then let me just be clear when you told. America. That Mr Berman was stepping down did Mr Berman. Tell you. He was stepping down. No, but but stepping down is the language that I am told. Okay, you did not tell you that. No, but it's the language we usually use to leave the. Flexibility as to whether whether the person doing it on June twentieth. When asked about the basis for Mr. Berman's removal on the very day you announced, he was being fired stepping down the president's personal attorney Mr. Giuliani suggests that that and I quote the reason may lie in the fact that Berman's office got involved in what Giuliani described as baseless investigations. Sir, if that wasn't true. If YOU DIDN'T REMOVE MR? Berman, because he was overseeing investigations of the president and those close him, why would the president is personal attorney? Think that I'm sorry. What did he say and win I? Didn't hear the quote. Mr Giuliani suggests that win when June twentieth. June twenty that he may have been fired because he was investigating baseless investigation wealthy said that that's that's nonsense number one. Anyone. Familiar with the Department of Justice would say they're removing component head is not going to have any effect on any pending investigation arm ceremonies records recognized for five minutes. Acting Secretary. Wolf has said that the violent mobs publishing personal information of federal officers jeopardizing not only them, but their families, why is docking federal agents so dangerous and are you concerned about? Well, it's dangerous because. People can take retaliation against their homes, their families, or or then when they're when they're by themselves. See some of these Latin American countries in Central America where the police are very, very brave because the gangs are trying to deal with go to their houses and killed their families and you know you never think that can happen here. But you could never think some of the stuff we're seeing today could ever happen here. Back when the Supreme Court struck down the president's attempt to. Put His citizenship question on the census. At that time the president announcing executive order to collect citizenship information by other means and at that time. You made reference to a dispute over whether illegal aliens can be included in the importunate purposes. Is that what you're referring to answer I think that I could have been referring to the Alabama case. So I can't remember the DOJ studying this issue. Have you concluded? Can you provide this committee with discussions? Any Research? Any concluding memos on that issue are looking to partake. We have considered it, and as I sat our advice is Has Been that congress does have the power to define the term inhabitant to either include or exclude. About the president's executive. Orders Twelve Congress has delegated that power to the commerce secretary. So as the law stands now I think the commerce secretary that delegate of congressional power can defined that term. That's a reasonable ARGUMENT TO MAY MISDEMEANOR GOOSE RECOGNIZED Earlier this year on February tent, you stated that you had set up a quote intake process for submission of information. Excuse me intake process end quote for submission of information relating to the Ukraine to the Justice Department, and that included quote is your words anything Mr Giuliani might provide your recall making those comments something along those lines. You can see there isn't anything standard about the attorney general creating special process for information related to advancing I. Disagree. I also made it clear that that is a vetting process that's available to anybody. Is that right? which US Attorney have you assigned to receive information from Vice President, Biden's personal lawyers regarding president trump? Well, maybe if they had vetted the dossier, there's no they vetted. Dr. The attorney general, there's no US attorney, of course that you've appointed to do that because. This process is unprecedented. Now, it was cautionary so that we do not to lose the criminal investigative process with Ukrainian information you an opportunity to explain the intake process. My standing is that you have directed. You are going to give me an opportunity plan intend to right now the eastern district. Of New, York, the US attorney responsible for that district understanding is that you have asked that use attorney to be responsible for the intake process. Is that right? That's wrong. The US attorney, the US attorney in the Eastern District was given oversight of all Ukrainian related cases. Any new cases involving Ukraine faced a problem with Ukraine which unreliable information coming in I, appreciate a lot of corruption. They're all of mirrors Mr Transgender, and I wanted to make sure that before we got into criminal proceedings and this was to everyone's benefit. Particularly, vice president diagonal that the information was scrubbed. I. Appreciate Khun Jody. Intelligence demand, the memo that you issued, which said any and all new matters relating to Ukraine shelby directed exclusively to. To the Eastern District of New, York for investigation inappropriate handling. Just as you described right now. Now, of course, the US attorney responsible in the eastern, district of new. York was recently changed my understanding a few weeks ago. You announced that Seth Ducharme would be taking over to replace Rich Donohue Mr Ducharme. Prior, Pittsburgh is in charge of the vetting on Mr Attorney General Prior to taking this position Mr. Ducharme worked at main department, of Justice, is that correct? Yes. He was a counselor to me and then and then he was the the principal deputy. Assistant Deputy Attorney General. That's right and rather than having the acting us attorney the deputy US attorney rather in that district swap John Now have appointed your prior council to oversee that very same process with that I, yield back my time chairman. Mr Stanton, can you commit to the American people that you will not interfere with the decisions of state and local authorities to use vote by mail absentee ballots in the twenty twenty elections? That's a yes or no question. I think the federal government has very limited ability to get involved in this, but I'm not gonNA give up whatever ability we have to ensure the integrity of the election. I've never, you know my observation was simply that it wouldn't inject some uncertainty into the election process and it would opens up the. Fraud An iphone? Import the president has suggested that only votes counted on election day should be what matters meeting that if a voter casts a legal ballot on or before. Election? Day. Ballot is not counted on election day. It shouldn't count at all. So I wanna ask you again about your commitment to ensuring that every vote is counted. If in this upcoming November election, the president asks you to intervene and try to stop states from county legal ballots after election day. Will you do the right thing and refuse yesterday? I will follow the law. You're won't say, no sir. I was follow the law. It's very disappointed. Well, if a state has a law that says, if a state has a law that says, it has to be cast on election day. That's the law. Making. Sure. The Department of Justice does not get involved in a contested. No. I will follow the law is Dean is recognized. So yes or no, and this is a yes or no? Sir, have you begun an investigation of the use of excessive force in Lafayette Square I? Think the is looking at everything related to. The anti-european. Investigating the ideas investigating. That he does not get fired. Tragically. What happened in Lafayette, square longer an isolated incident? Use of chemical here. Has Been used in more than ninety cities. My colleague showed you the video of the navy vet. Being pepper sprayed and beaten stones broken. Whether or not. You thought this was appropriate at the time. Have you now called for law enforcement to stop using these chemical irritants on protesters? Yes or no pepper spray? Yes. No. Now I think it's a very important nonlethal option. For protesters, know for rioters. For protest for rioters. Carswell Powell, do you commit to not releasing any report by Mr Germ before the November election? No. You don't commit to that. No, so you will be. Justice policy. Justice you want your fear in any political investigations before the November election. We're not going to interfere. In fact, I've made it clear. I'm not going to tolerate under oath. You're saying that you do not commit to not releasing a report by Durham. Not Going to. Any report will will be in my judgment, not one, it is covered by the policy would disrupt the election time ten. I've already made it clear that the. Department of Justice Policy Mr, Barton, don't you tell me what that pilots? Well actually. Do you want me to repeat it for you know what the policy. Escobar's recognized. I'm alarmed by your department's refusal to comply with an implement key supreme court rulings on June eighteenth of this year. The Supreme Court in an opinion authored by Chief Justice Roberts ruled that the trump administration's attempt to resend Daca was arbitrary and capricious and required the administration to process new dock applications despite the Supreme Court's ruling zero, Daca applications have been process. That's not the only. Supreme. Court decision, your administration has ignored in twenty seventeen year department issued a memo stating that transgender workers were not protected by civil rights laws. The Supreme Court struck that down to. You. Know I'm sorry in both shed. What's sexy four act did not extend to reclaiming my time Sir in both Daca, the DACA and transgender decisions. Your department has yet to comply yes or no. Will the department implement the Supreme Court's DACA and transgender rulings. Yes, I think we are. The DACA ruling. You are you are now processing daca applications. I think what we're trying to do now is is restored the administrative process. has put out a rule. I think DHS put out a rule. Sir, you keep telling us that you're not aware of the president's tweets. Are you aware that your department has stated that the president's tweets are official White House statements? No I wasn't. Okay. Don't pay attention to. The my attention. The law fair podcast is produced in cooperation with the Brookings Institution. If you haven't yet please get on facebook and twitter and tell your friends and followers about the law fair podcast and give us a rating and review wherever you listen to us. You can also purchase law fair SWAG AT WWW dot the law fair store DOT COM. This episode was edited by me. Elena. Kagan until next time. Thanks for listening.

president attorney US Attorney US US attorney PORTLAND Roger Stone us attorney Justice Department DOJ FBI federal government Chairman Mr Bar Department of Justice Donald trump
Interview with House Judiciary Committee Chairman Rep. Jerry Nadler; Interview with former US Attorney Preet Bharara; Interview with White House adviser Peter Navarro; Interview with Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms; Interview with former Defense Secretary Robert Gates

State of the Union with Jake Tapper

49:18 min | 4 months ago

Interview with House Judiciary Committee Chairman Rep. Jerry Nadler; Interview with former US Attorney Preet Bharara; Interview with White House adviser Peter Navarro; Interview with Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms; Interview with former Defense Secretary Robert Gates

"Mixed messaging a lighter than expected turnout as president trump place down the risk of corona virus in. Oklahoma so I said to my feet slow the testing down, please as cases continue to rise in the US. Is the president moving onto soon? I'll speak with White House adviser Peter Navarro next and flying justice, the president and his attorney, General Fire of prosecutor who was investigating trump associates a former top adviser accuses the president of more. More abuses chairman of the House Judiciary Committee Jerry Nadler Former US attorney for the southern district of New York free. Harare and former Defense Secretary Robert Gates. Join me ahead plus moment of reflection. The Nation marks the anniversary of June eighteen as demands for policing reform reverberate across the country. There's no playbook for what we are dealing with. Right now across. This country is change on the way, Atlanta. Mayor Quiche Lance bottoms coming up. Jake Tapper in Washington where the State of our Union is remembering that there's a presidential election in less than five months. Hoping to be back in his comfort zone this weekend, holding his first campaign rally in months Saturday night, and the city of Tulsa, and Ruby Red Oklahoma, but event was riddled with missteps much smaller than expected crowd and news early Saturday that six members of the trump campaign advanced team had tested positive for covid nineteen, instead of a speech of unity and hope, president trump gave what critics described as a meandering speech filled with complaints and falsehoods. He spent about fourteen minutes talking about West Point and defending his wobbly walk. Walk down that ramp. The president also made no mention of George, Floyd or June eighteenth or the massacre of black Americans in Tulsa Ninety nine years ago this month, as many on his team had hoped he would. President also seemed to minimize the threat of the coronavirus. You used the racist term Kung flew to describe it. That's a term zone adviser Kellyanne Conway called highly offensive back in March and a time when several states are experiencing increased cases of covid nineteen and increased hospitalizations. The president said this about testing. What you do testing to that extent, you're gonNA. Find more people to find more cases. So I said to my people snow the testing down, please. A White House. Official later said that the president was quote obviously kidding just a reminder. There are currently more than two million cases of covid nineteen in the United States, and more than one hundred in one, thousand, nine, hundred, thousand dead in the United States that's more than the total number of Americans. WHO died in World War One sources tell CNN that the president was also upset to see so much news on Saturday focused not on his return to the campaign trail, but on his administration's Ham handed move to fire the widely respected and independent US attorney for the Southern District of New York Jeffrey Berman whose office is currently investigating. Investigating trump's attorney Rudy Giuliani standoff between Attorney General Bill Bar and Berman ended when the president stepped in and fired Burma Burma's deputy will temporarily fill the role rather than the administration's pick who had been announced on Friday. I WANNA start right there with the chairman of how this year committee and Congressman from. New York Jerry Nadler Chairman now. They're thanks for joining us. Let's start about this president's and attorney general's decision to fire the US Attorney Jeffrey Berman. You seem to be suggesting in statements you've made. Since the firing, the bar may be trying to impede an ongoing criminal investigation in the Southern District of New York which investigation. Well I think it's obvious. The number of investigations that the southern districts has been doing with reference. To the presence Associates Giuliani the the Turkish investigation we've seen a pattern of of the president opposing of of Bar corruptly impeding all these investigations so This is just more of the same. You tweeted that you would like to invite. The now former US attorney Jeffrey Berman to testify in front of your committee. The House Judiciary Committee this week on Wednesday. Has He accepted your offer? Will that happen this week? I couldn't hear your question. I'm sorry you said that you invited. Jeffrey Berman to testify in front of your committee on Wednesday as he accepted your. Your offer is going to happen this week. Well we are having a hearing on Wednesday in which we have. A number of whistleblowers from the Department of Justice, will testify. We have invited Berman and I'm sure he will I'm sure you I don't know about Wednesday venture. He will testify. I know you announced. You're going to investigate why Berman was was fired. Some Congressional Democrats including Senator Elizabeth Warren have said that this is this is the last Straw Attorney General Bill Bar needs to be impeached. You have not gone that far. Do you think calls for his impeachment are premature? No. I don't think closers. Impeachment Emmett are premature anymore than close to the presence. Impatient were premature. But they are a waste of time at this point because we know that we have a corrupt. Republican majority in the Senate which will not consider an impeachment. And no matter what the facts, so GonNa. We're going to Do what we have to do without that and including barring fifty fifty million dollars from his own personal budget. You're calling every Senate Republican. who voted to acquit president trump. Corrupt. In the sense of being corrupt against the interests of the country, yes. I want to ask you about new revelations. In addition from this less redacted version of the Muller report that CNN was able to obtain through the freedom of Information Act. We learned that Muller raised the possibility. That president trump lied to him when the president said that he did not remember any conversations with Roger Stone about wikileaks which obviously got those emails from the DNC that the Russians were to have were are said to have hacked that that were damaging to Hillary Clinton and her campaign. We learned that testimony from trump eternity Michael Cohen trump. Former campaign chair Paul. Manafort and deputy campaign chair Rick Gates suggests that President. Trump, did talk with Roger Stone about wikileaks in this pending release of these damaging emails. I know you are familiar with this. Do you think president trump lied to Robert Mueller investigators about this issue? Yes I think it's very clear that he lied and and that he committed a crime and I think it's also the case that as Muller implied in his report that the only reason the president wasn't indicted is because Muller was operating under the Department of Justice guidelines that say sitting president cannot be indicted if you were not present. I think he would have been indicted and should've been. For Obstruction of justice or for something having to do with conspiracy with Russia. Well for lying to for lying to tomorrow, that's lying to the That's that's a crime to lie to the committee to the mother committee. I want to turn to the latest from former national. Security Adviser John Bolton. Coming out in his book that I think comes out on Tuesday Bolton accused Democrats House Democrats. have committing quote impeachment malpractice. Not Broadening your impeachment investigation beyond the Ukraine controversy to include other episodes, he describes this potential high crimes and misdemeanors involving the president with China, the involving the president with Turkey What do you make of that charge? Well the fact is the president could have been impeached on other grounds to such as obstruction of of justice in in the in the Russia investigation. We, we chose to try to keep it simple but and and and Bolton. Who has as we now know evidence that he could have offered and refused to offer certainly no one to talk. Well, he he did offer to testify before the Senate. But as you know, the Senate voted not to hear any additional evidence. Used to test. House. He he refused to testify before the House and the Senate of course was never going to call them. Because the Senate Republicans were not interested. In any evidence as I said they were corrupt in that respect. Every I should note every Republican voted against new evidence except for Susan Collins and Mitt Romney. Are you planning on calling Bolton to to testify. This new information he has. He suggests in this book I'm sorry. To what? To Call John! Bolton I'm sorry my planning to Bolton. To. Are you planning on calling John Bolton to testify before your committee. No. We're not interested in Bolton's testimony. Baltin says in his book. That president trump promised him. He would stop the investigation into the Turkish bank that the southern district of New York. was doing at the time. which you brought up as a potential reason why? Jeff. Berman might have been fired. It sounds as though Bolton has evidence to back that up, but you. You don't WanNa. Hear him because what because you're upset that he didn't well at least. We may engagement. We may but We'll see about that. I mean. Do you think that any of these new revelations from Bolton are impeachable or or is? The door closed on impeachment for two thousand twenty. Well I think I think the president has done a lot of impeachable things including what the Bolton's talking about, but we have an election coming up. We know the Republicans in the Senate will not entertain an impeachment in any event, so that would be that would. Be a waste of time and effort. One last thing before we go, you said that you think calls to impeach the Attorney General. Were Not Premature Does that mean that you think attorney. General Bar should be impeached. Well I think he deserves impeachment He certainly deserves impeachment again That's a waste of time because the Republicans. In the Senate, won't look at that and we have. We have other ways of getting this. All. Right Chairman Jerry Nadler Congressman and Democrat of New York. Thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it I. WanNa Bring in the previous US Attorney, shopping district of New York, who president trump fired in two, thousand, seventeen, pre Berrara also a CNN senior legal analyst pre good to see you just heard my interview with Chairman Nadler. What was your reaction to what he had to say? While a couple reactions about what is going to happen going forward I understand I understand Jerry. Nadler has asked the former US attorney now for me. Attorney Jeffrey Berman to come testify. I. Don't know that he will do that and I don't know actually how much you will have to say. After I was fired. Lots of people want to ask the questions about what ongoing investigations I might have been overseeing to try to make a connection between the fact of those investigations relationships to the trump administration to trump himself and the firing. My policy was and I think the standard operating procedure is not to talk about ongoing investigations even when you leave office so i. don't know how much. A. Much progress to make specter trying to get an answer to that question. With respect to the comments about Bill Barr. I leave it to. Members of Congress to decide whether you impeach or not what I said publicly I think a lot of people understand clearly as the case. That in the most recent incident, starting last Thursday and Friday. You to join the United States made it public misrepresentation. About whether or not jeopardy, perman was stepping down from office. It was clearly not the case. It was clearly a falsehood. Any tried to cover that up with a letter you name called. Did the spent time calling names against Jeff Berman? And also retreated from the position, a little bit Berman to decide that the officers are going to be left in good hands with Audrey Strauss, the deputy and I think that conduct alone shows. There's a sort of unfitness for office you're we teach our assistant US attorneys. Not to spend not to make misrepresentations in court NFL. Do you apologize for it? And you withdraw the statement I was the biggest thing in the world, and it was trying to accomplish something that probably on it, which was Jeff Berman out because he wasn't perceived to be loyal enough, but you make a representation. That's not true. That's a problem for for most people in any profession. It's a particular problem. If you're the attorney general, the United States of America. We should just bring our viewers up to speed. Make sure people know that Jeff Berman. Is a registered Republican gave money to the President's campaign in two thousand sixteen, but he's also regarded as as an independent prosecutor his office. Got Michael Cohen convicted sent to prison trump attorney Michael Cohen also love. Ebore Fruman Republican. Businessmen. Has Been going after this Turkish bank that we talked about with Chairman Nadler. He's also been going after Rudy Giuliani investigating, Rudy Giuliani for his behavior, and also office is looking into Jeffrey Epstein. Why do you think attorney? General Bar Wanted Berman. Gone. Seems to me. The president wanted him gone. There have been reports over time including the report from the John Bolton Book. And prior reports where the president seems to have been upset. That Jeffrey. Berman recused himself from the prosecution investigation of Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen. Parallel to his concern about Jeff sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation, so there have been repeated reports. Excuse me repeated reports of the President United States was not happy with Jeff, Burma not happy with my former office. He's shown himself generally speaking not to be happy with independent law enforcement is not happy with inspectors. General at all it's it's very hard in these circumstances to pinpoint the exact reason, someone was let go, but the circumstances show that I don't think it was in good faith. In fact, the whole idea that Jeff Berman did not lose the confidence of the department such that he was being asked to move to some other position. Not Being told you know, leave the department altogether I'm you're doing a terrible job? Lost confidence in you. But the idea that the bill bar puts in his in his letter to Jerry Berman. You've got the SEC chair who has never tried a case? never been a litigator, never done a criminal case, and is doing a good job as the SEC chair from what I can tell. Let's put him into the office of the US. Attorney in this other district, meanwhile, the attorney Jerry Berman. Who is a criminal prosecutor and has been doing a good job in this district? Why don't they swap jobs? Four and a half months before an election. That fact and the weirdness of it and all the other evidence that the president wasn't happy with. How things were going? The southern district wanted to make sure that they were stayed in. They kept their their place stayed in their lane that lane thing loyalty the president. I think it's a reasonable conclusion that the decision to get rid of Jeff. Berman was not done in good faith. You have talked about The the the woman who is now going to take over for Jeffrey Berman. The Deputy Berman released a statement when he left posting these confident, the southern district will continue its quote tradition of integrity and independence under that Deputy Audrey. Strauss you who you know. Which of the investigations are you want? Are you watching your purview? And what could those investigations mean potentially for President Trump? I don't know I don't talk about investigations of people. Don't talk about them with me. Since I left office and I will say I should affirm. Orchestra has an incredible lawyer. He principal lawyer with a lot of integrity with a lot of experience in widely respected within the office I am a little concerned. That there's no assurance. That already Strauss will be. So far as as we know, going forward until there is a permanent attorney confirmed that her job is safe. That's implied by letter of of Bill Bar to Jeff, but I don't know that that will continue true. I would like to get some insurance if If members of Congress can get that kind of assurance from the justice. Department Audrey Strauss will be in place until the Senate confirmed trying to be good. With respect to other investigations I can't I can't speculate about what will happen. What I do know is. The people in the office or professionals, other career folks and Audrey Strauss as well respected, and if there is a an investigation that leads to prosecution, it'll be done on the facts and the law without fear or favor, as the oath says and so not worried about that at all. Right. Thank you so much for your time this morning. We appreciate it a White House aide called this nickname for the corona virus quote offensive. So why did the president used the term last night White House Adviser Peter Navarro will join me next hand. Six trump advanced staffers now quarantined with the corona virus in Oklahoma after the rally last night. More people get sick. Stay with us. We expect a lot from our homes. They're more than a place to hang your hat. Your home is where you try your handed gardening and new recipes, rest and recharge work and play, and that's why at homeadvisor were committed to keeping your home up and running no matter what from the projects that creep up on you like appliance repairs Gutter cleanings faucet fixes to the ones. You look forward to like creating your very own backyard retreat worthy of a summer vacation. We'll find local. Local pros to help you get the job done right. Use The homeadvisor APP day or night to get matched with the best pros for your projects, you can book and pay for more than one hundred projects with just a few taps, plus see the tasks trending in your neighborhood whether you need a last minute fix routine home, maintenance or an exciting new upgrade home advisor is standing by ready to do everything to fix your everything. Download the HOMEADVISOR APP today to get started. Welcome back to state of the Union. Aren't Jake Tapper President? Trump returned to the campaign trail last night for the first time since the coronavirus pandemic began, but it did not white. Feel like old times. Troubles facing the nation followed the president into the arena in many ways joining me now White House Trade Advisors Peter Navarro. Mr Navarro thanks so much for joining US I want to start on what the president said about Corona virus testing at his rally last night, which alarmed quite a few health experts take a listen. Do testing to that extent. You're gonNA find more people. You're gonNA find more cases. So I said to my people slow the testing down, please. Come on now, Jake. His tongue in cheek. Come on, that was tongue-in-cheek. Please I don't I. Don't know I don't know that it was. I know we. Saying next news for you. said similar months, but but joe we got. We got he has. That over thirty million people, unemployed and we've seen over one hundred thousand people die because of the China. We'll hand virus. Let's talk about some serious issues got I don't WanNa go there I? Think there's some really important things I'll break a little news fly. Think tasks they want and I think testing is a very serious issue. I'm not I work on it every day. You're. The president was a light moment. The president was being tongue-in-cheek. We're sixty seconds into into a tongue-in-cheek thing. Ask and answer I think I think what what what's important. Going on in this world today or things like John Bolton Leaky publishing a book. Here's the breaking news for you that I read the judge's decision on that and we'll get. We'll get to Olten, but I WANNA say this I. Do want highly classified information in that book and that the I should be turning in seersucker suit. Want to get to Bolton in a second I wanted to get to Bolton in a second, but I still want to talk about about the pandemic for a second. It's tongue-in-cheek. Hundred housing almost. Frame. On okay. I'm not sure that I'm not sure that a deadly pandemic were almost one hundred twenty thousand Americans. Were for a moment seriously. But Anyway Washer CDC and says yeah. The CDC says. That this type of gathering quote large in-person gatherings where it's difficult for individuals to remain spaced at least six feet apart and attendees travel from outside the local area. That's that's CDC. Talking poses the highest risk. They also see the CDC urges it. To wear masks. That wasn't happening last night and I guess the second question I have is. You and the administration constantly telling the American people us to adhere to CDC guidelines I. Respect that I. think that that's good advice, but then the president has an event like this that flies in the face of them. Isn't that a bad example? Jay this is. I'm the trade advisor on the jobs are helping the greatest jobs president history. Asked me example what's going to happen on Thursday? We're going to Marinette, Wisconsin to celebrate an award for ten ships will employ thousands of people in the state of Wisconsin and good high paying jobs. At the same time we'll create new state of the art frigates to defend this nation economic security. You Sing. Your lanes are. Somebody I know, but it's not. Eloquent but you. wrote a memo. No sure go ahead. You wrote a memo on February twenty third. Warning the administration and I give you credit for this warning the administration to take this more seriously. You're one of the few administration officials in the white. House who took this pandemic threat as seriously as it should have been, you warned as many as two million people could die if serious steps were not taken the president on that same day, said quote. We have it very much under control in this country just this week. President trump said it's fading away. It's not fading away. So that's why I'm asking you about it. You have actually been a voice of reason on this inside the White, house sure and I can tell you for example. Two weeks ago, went with the president to Guilford Maine where we stood up a factory. There will which is providing the swabs. We need four testing, which we ramping up dramatically and I can assure you as a work across the. The street in my office we are filling the stockpile in anticipation of possible problem in the fall. We're doing everything we can. Beneath the surface working as hard as we possibly can, and so that's that's my role in this today, Stan that it does create jobs. That's a good thing but but This is a serious issue, but I look. Last night was a campaign preparing for a second wave. Wave in the fall. Of course we're praying for seven in the fall. You prepare you prepare for what can possibly happen I'm not saying it's going to happen, but of course you prepare and I'll tell you what we're a lot more prepared under this president than we were when when China foisted this honest to begin with, and let's not forget that Jag China created this pandemic. They hit the virus that. That created that virus and they sent over hundreds of thousands of Chinese citizens here to spread that around and around the world whether they did that on purpose. That's an open question, but that's a fact and so I you know my role here, Jake my role here at the White, house is to help this president. Create jobs, and we are facing a the probably the worst economic crisis. We've faced. As in our history and this president in three. Let's? Hope for let's let's talk about the economy because what if the smarter way to reopen the economy to? In accordance with the health officials, and those saying we need mass surveillance testing mass contact tracing so that the virus can be isolated, so none of these states are going to have to retract and go back to stay at home orders, for example just in Orange County Florida two weeks ago. The rate of positivity than the number of people getting tested the tested positive for coronavirus was just two percent. Now it is closer to fifteen percent meaning. It's not just increased testing that is showing more positive cases. People are actually getting. There is increased community spread would not there be better chance. Chance for an economic prosperity that you want to go back to before the pandemic, if there were this nationwide, truly aggressive millions of tests today, response from the Federal Circuit. You're missing a great opportunity here. Talking to the trade visors manufacturing Vijay I. Talk about a lot of things. The only thing I can tell you about the issue of locking the economy up not is that many many more people would have died if we had an open the economy and that's the struggle we're facing the Chinese Communist. Party did tremendous damage to the society in this economy I mean last night. Last night they tore down statues. Though you listen s grant and Francis Scott Key, and it's like what is going on in this country, and it's all tied up in I, think a lot of pent-up frustration about what's going on in this world and so my job. My Job Jay is they helped create jobs for this president and we got a long road ahead of it. He had made a great comeback the last month, but I'm telling you there seduce as academic. China. Go ahead. I just want to ask about something you said. Did you say? Created this virus did I hear you wrong? You did not hear me wrong that that virus was a product of the Chinese Communist Party and until we get some information about what happened in those labs? What happened that market? We know that that virus was spawned in China. That is what I mean spawned in. China, you think it was purposely emphasize purposefully created. That's an open question, but I'll tell you this. In two thousand six in a book I wrote called the coming. Of Age on page one fifty I predicted that China would create a viral pandemic could possibly kill millions. Why did I do that at the time? Because the whole structure of that authoritarian repressive non-transparent society is geared towards giving US exactly what they've given us, which is a pandemic I I would love to know so I would love to know. Hang on shaky. You should be asking this question. You should be asking this question every day. The Chinese Communist Party president in an interview. She gave me an interview I'd love to. Doesn't. Defend the. Go ahead I have been asking about the Chinese, and we did a whole special in the pandemic, and there have been very critical of the Chinese government for how it handled it now. We've never said Tokyo. Purposely. Well, that's an open question I did not say. Rotate back what I said was virus came out of China. The Chinese Communist. Party is responsible for it and. Right well spawn lettuce, say spawn, and it's an open question as to how that how that happened. Okay, but in in in terms of the code of Justice I'm a Napoleonic code of justice for the Chinese. Communist Party. They are guilty until proven innocent. Because of what we know Jake about long virus in China. They were two months, and they killed over one hundred thousand Americans, and the beat goes on and on and the question is i. mean why aren't they responsible for the trillions of dollars a damage that they've inflicted on this, but but look. Sunday morning. I think we're. Talking about government, I I would like to see. Let's talk about it, I. I'm not defending the Chinese government I'd love to see evidence for the allegation. You seem to be suggesting as possible that they keep this on purpose. I said. Will hand it right over to make out. Okay well, let's turn to the. They wouldn't even let in turn to the book. Yeah, well, exactly that let's turn to the Baltin Book Baltin says that he was told to remove direct quotes from the book in some instances Vanity Repair fanfare reports the Bolton had originally written that the president told Chinese president she at a meeting in Asaka quote. Make sure I win. I will probably win anyway, so don't hurt my farms by a lot of soybeans and we and make sure we win. What's your response to that? A couple of things for I of all John Bolton has put highly classified information sprinkled throughout a very large book and he I predict this. He will not only not get the prophets from that book, but he risk jail sentence he is, he is done something that is very very serious in terms of American national security, and he's got to pay a price for that, but did. Did President. Trump asked president sheets to help him win election that I. I hate the title of that book I was in those rooms to and and whatever Bolton is saying about China is just just silly, because this president has been the toughest president on China of any American President ever and don't forget. There's still over three hundred fifty, but yes, or no, yes, or no, did he did he ask? Yes or no, did he? Does it? Come on come on, come on that. That's that's a johnny. Come on. He did it with Russia and Ukraine. I never heard that I was in the room. lighthizer never heard it. He was in the room. Here's the thing about Bolton. Here's what's so interesting about him. I think what what we need to do is take a serious. Read the book everything that John Bolton was pushing here right over there in the White House would have made this country peaceful and less prosperous. He wanted to bomb North Korea. He wanted to bomb Iran. He wanted to keep troops in Afghanistan. I mean towards you. Understand is for months towards the end of his tenure. Before he got fired, the president would openly joke about a John wants to bomb everything okay. This is a guy who's like a nine thousand nine hundred. Dr Strangelove okay, he just. By the way he talks about patterns of Behavior Book. Guess what when he was with Bush. What did he do? He quit and then he dumped a wrote a book. rotel kiss all dumped all over George W and now he's doing it. We gotta go for. Yeah Well Navarro, thank you so much for your take care day we. We, we really appreciate it. Yes, they're coming up. Oh, sorry, we're going to stick stick on with the show right now. The rally in Tulsa coming as Americans. They aren't across the country. Celebrate June teeth, a moment with particular significance this year amid protests over race and policing and racism, joining me now and official, dealing with the corona virus, endemic and outrage over the killing of Race Chard Brooks by police Atlanta mayor. Quiche Lance Bottoms Mayor Bottoms. Thanks so much for joining us today. The president held his first rally since the pandemic began last night. What was your response to his remarks? You Know Jake like so many people across country. Response was I hope that this is a preview for November that finally people are recognizing that this man is a danger to our country, a danger to our democracy, and he should not be the president of the United States of America that rally was an embarrassment. It was absolutely what nation does not need right now. He did not speak about healing. He did not recognize any of the racial tensions that are happening across our country. Instead he does what he always does. He continues to try and divide us in in really inflames the worst in people, and so I just hope that that this is a good sign on the country is moving on from him. He did talk about how before the pandemic black unemployment had gone down the most in history and he did he did. There was some mention of black Americans in the United States in his. Defense. That that didn't. Ring true to you. Take their twenty million Americans who are out of work right now, so whatever happened before the pandemic is probably not resonating with the people who are trying to figure out how they will pay their rent and put food on their table again. This man has just a complete blatant disregard for the past present, and for the future the fact that he was even in Oklahoma during the June team celebration the site of the worst ratio massacre in this country's history. History I mean it speaks to who he is no recognition and concern that where we are with covert nineteen and no concern about what it would mean for people who are gathering in these large numbers, he he he doesn't get it, and he is giving us. The best city has and so when you know that over one hundred and twenty thousand people have lost their lives to cove it a you dare speak that you have said slow down the testing. If it is. To make it. Go ahead. You heard. You just say you heard Peter! Navarro say the president was speaking tongue in cheek about that. This is no time to joke. Even if it were joke, which it was not, it was an inappropriate joke. Do you think the people that hundred and twenty thousand families out there who are missing their loved ones thought it was funny. Let's turn to the death of Race Yard Brooks. The officer former officer accused of killing Brooks has been charged with felony murder, and the second officer at the scene faces and aggravated assault charge the Atlanta interim police chief Rodney Brian announced yesterday that nine police officers have resigned this month already and many other officers have been calling in sick with this. The so called blue flu in. Of what's going on? What's your message to the policemen and women of Atlanta? I'm message to our officers. Is that this is not about division from our public safety personnel? We value our officers in Atlanta, but this continues to be about where we are in this country and making sure that we don't have people who are part of our force who are not respectful of our communities, the loss of Brooks and his killing was a tragedy, not just in the city, but for the country as a whole and I think that to the extent that there is an attempt to divide us from public safety in this country I think it's very dangerous. But I also recognize that our communities are hurting in our officers are hurting, and so in the same way, demonstrators need an opportunity to vent, and to express their frustration, and their concern understand that our officers need the opportunity to do that as well but as mayor, and as a city I think. We all went to our communities into our officers to make sure that they had the training that they need that. They are appropriately trained de. Escalation techniques. And so that they are equipped. To work alongside our communities in the way that we need and expect them to. Mayor I WANNA turn to politics for a SEC Vice President Joe. Biden said that his first criteria for picking a running mate. Is that the person be ready on day one to be president of the United States? You are a contender to become Joe Biden's vice presidential nominee. Are you ready on day? One to be president of the United States? Yes, but I also think that Joe. Biden has the right to pick whomever he wants to work alongside him, and to service his vice president and I think that he knows better than anyone else in this country, what that role should be in who that person should be But there's been no hand bug for so many mayors, and so many governors across this country, dealing with a covert nineteen, and now with the demonstrations that we're seeing about the around the country I think that there has has been a response to crisis that not many people have been tested in this way. In the same way that leaders across his country happen over the past several months. Our Mayor Bottoms thank you so much for your time and good luck with everything going on in Atlanta these days. We appreciate it. Thank you. Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates has criticism for the last three US presidents in his book. What does he make of these new allegations against President trump from national security adviser Bolton Alaska them next. Rush Check, out the show that has the latest games the biggest dreamers and the best of twitch every single week. illeg Super Punch, Fridays at midnight on TV S. Walking back to state of the Union. I'm Jake Tapper. President trump is campaigning for reelection as former national security adviser is calling him quote unfit for office joining me now. Someone who has worked for eight different presidents president trump not among them former defense secretary under presidents George W Bush, and Iraq Obama Robert Gates Secretary Gates is also the author of a brand new book exercise. Of Power Available Bookstores Amazon Right now secretary gates. Thanks for joining US I'm really interested in getting your reaction to what Bolton is saying about President trump. Specifically, his asking Chinese, President Xi Jinping to help him win. Re election and also offering to help Turkish president, Irwan avoid a Justice Department probe of Turkish owned bank. Do you believe Bolton the White House is denying it and what was your reaction when you heard of these allegations? I. Don't know whether what he's written is true or not. I've read that he takes copious notes. and but I would say that if those allegations are true, that's that's pretty Pretty disappointing in. A real real mistake. Frankly in my view I. think that The president's I worked for? Obviously, we're always interested in reelection, but as I rode some years ago in my experience with the president's Bush, forty, three, the second president, Bush and President Obama, I never once saw them make a decision in the situation room. based on domestic politics I know that they had domestic politics in mine, and it was a factor in their decisions, but I never saw blatant decision along those lines. It's interesting. Bolton says he, he can't think of any decision that was ever made without trump's reelection in mind. I'm really interested in your reaction. To what Bolton says that President Trump said. To President Xi about these concentration camps in China. For. A predominantly Muslim, ethnic group in China Bolton writes quote with only interpreters president. She had explained to trump why he was basically building concentration camps in. Jhang according to our interpreter. Trump said that she should go ahead with building the camps, which trump thought was exactly the right thing to do, and you have called the United States quote the defender of human rights in the world. Do you still believe that's true? Well I certainly think we need to be. And I make the point in the book I. Don't. I think that we need not. We shouldn't be the world's policeman. We shouldn't interfere. Militarily and other countries. In order to bring about democracy, or or to move the process along on the other hand, we always have to be an advocate for human rights for political freedom, and and so I think any effort to agree to or or sympathize with building in effect, concentration camps would be. would be pretty shameful. Your New Book have Right here exercise of power. Is You're quite critical of President Obama even more so of president trump. You're right of trump quote. The appeal of our ideology was further reduced by President. Trump's approach to foreign policy in which US advocacy for human and political rights silenced in subordinated to doing deals with other governments, intended to singularly advantage the United States and its economy of obviously the allegations made in the Bolton Book. Back up that impression. What do you think another four years of of Donald Trump's foreign policy would mean for the role of the US in the world. The, basic theme of the book is the importance of continued us. international leadership not necessarily as I said being the world's policeman, but just like with the corona virus. If the United States doesn't lead people working together different countries working together, no other country is in a position to take that position to provide that kind of leadership, and so I worried. Worried particularly about the president's attitude toward allies and friends, no one's pressed our allies more for to increase defense spending than I have, and we need to keep the pressure on the, but at the same time having allies is critical to our leadership position, and frankly it's a unique advantage. We have over both Russia and China. They. They don't have any allies. and. I worry that the rate we're going, neither will we so I I'm worried that there's a lack of understanding of the importance of a our international leadership role, and be the importance of allies and friends and summating and sustaining that role. Peter Navarro. The president's trade adviser just accuse China of spawning the coronavirus. Instead. It's an open question as to whether not it was created purposefully. The president has also threatened to withdraw funding from the World Health Organization. What do you think of the kind of leadership that you're calling for in the book? You talk about how it should not just be military. There's all sorts of different kinds of ways for the United States to exert leadership. What do you think about? The role of the United States when it comes to fighting the coronavirus pandemic? The. Only answer to dealing with. Problems in organizations like the World Health Organization and other international organizations is to reform and restructure them not to walk away from them. When we walk away from these institutions, we give the Chinese open field running they can. They can move their people in and the question is. How do you shape the international environment to support your own national interests, and it's through these institutions that we're able to shape the international environment, and so the answer is not to pick up your football and go home because you don't like the way the games been played, but to get back in there and figure out how to fix what's wrong. The book is exercise of power. The author is former Defense Secretary Robert. Gates thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Doing? More searching than streaming these days. Say hello to HBO Max. The new way to stream all of HBO. God is the greatest collection of movies. Burn meal. Juice MUIR's joker. The love Td. I new Max originals for everyone in the family. All of your favorites all in one place. To go on boarding just you and me. Hbo Max Start Streaming Today. Download the APP or visit Hbo Max Dot Com to start your free trial. Free trial for new customers, only restrictions apply. President trump had already ignored. The pleas of health officials in Tulsa Oklahoma who had asked him to reschedule last night's rally held in town where corona virus cases are only increasing and don, frankly the least safe way possible indoors with no social distancing and no masks required, and then the president took to the stage, and he said this. Would you do testing to that extent? You'RE GONNA. Find more people. You'RE GONNA. Find more cases. So. People slow the testing down, please. Slow the testing down. You can choose to believe White House Adviser Peter Navarro. Who Just told me that? That was tongue in cheek, but first of all nearly one hundred twenty thousand Americans are dead from coronavirus is not a particularly amusing subject. And second. Frankly, the president has said things like this before since the beginning of the. You might recall when he mused that he did not want. Infected Americans trapped on a cruise ship to come into the United States to disembark, because then the numbers of those infected in the US would increase in. That would look bad once again. The president is revealing that he seems to see this. Primarily as a public relations crisis, not as deadly pandemic, the president's own health officials want there to be even more testing the flooding the zone because right now in states such as Florida and Arizona there. There are increases in community spread ones that are not just due to the spikes in contained environments such as nursing homes prisons. In twenty three states, cases are going up. There is spread going on in the US the US. Government does not have control and health officials are not sure as to why that is, and instead of leading aggressive nationwide effort to test millions of Americans every day and undergo contact, tracing and isolation of the virus to stop the spread and truly allow the economy to restart. President trump seems to be just hoping it goes away while he mocks those who adhere to CDC guidelines. Wear masks. The United States needs leadership to address this continuing pandemic, the United States does not need glib indifference and. Focus on bad headlines instead of how to prevent more sick and more dead Americans. Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us. Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there, especially, my dad and my father-in-law. Thanks for everything reads a car yet GPS. Starts next.

president President Trump United States John Bolton Peter Navarro China Jeffrey Berman trump Jake Tapper White House Oklahoma White House Senate President attorney vice president Tulsa Union President Xi Jinping President United States
Trump Fires Lawyer Who Prosecuted His Allies

NPR Politics Podcast

14:07 min | 4 months ago

Trump Fires Lawyer Who Prosecuted His Allies

"Hi. This is Jacqueline ki-so from kitchener. Ontario but I'm originally from the Great State of Idaho All missing out on life's greatest moments while social distancing, I couldn't think of a better way to digitally announce my husband and I are expecting her first baby. A little girl will be joining us in a couple months, and we cannot wait for the borders to open and travel to be safe again. A special digital hug to all those also experiencing pregnancy in this strange strange time, but a huge thanks ten PR for keeping US all connected informed. This podcast was recorded at to ten PM on Sunday. The twenty second of June things may change for the time you hear this alright. Enjoy the show. Congratulations Yeah Really Nice. Hey, there, it's the NPR politics podcast I'm Timbre Keith I cover the White House I'm Ryan Lucas like over the justice? Department and I'm Mar Elias and national political correspondent. So on Saturday evening president trump officially fired Jeffrey Berman a top Justice Department prosecutor whose office has investigated associates of the president names that will be very familiar when Ryan talks about them Hey Ryan. Can you tell us who Berman is? Yes Jeffrey Berman is the Jeffrey Berman was Let me correct myself. He was the the US attorney for the Southern District of New York which is. One of the biggest and most important US attorney's offices in the country, they tend to lead very prominent investigations. Mob Investigations Financial Investigations. It tends to call itself the sovereign district of New York. That's kind of its nickname for itself. which gives you an indication as to you know how to operate, it likes to view itself as an independent entity that is going to make decisions without fear or favor or any sort of political interference, and in fact, this office has conducted a number of high profile investigation. Some of them passed some of them ongoing, including into Michael Cohen. The president's former personal attorney and Rudy Giuliani his kind of current personal attorney. That's right. It was the southern district of New York that that prosecuted Michael Cohen. The president was irate about that that investigation, when it first came to light a couple of years ago Cohen, of course, sense pleaded guilty to a number of financial crimes He also implicated the president himself actually in some campaign finance violations, one big investigation, of course that is still ongoing. is in to the president's current personal attorney Rudy Giuliani as you said. There are other investigations at the Southern District of New York. Is conducting that are also of concern, perhaps President Trump Ryan so all of these investigations into people in the president's inner circle by getting rid of Berman. Does that mean that these investigations will end or be delayed till after the election? I mean what's. What's the practical effect of getting rid of birds? Well, that was one of the big questions as to why. Attorney General William Bar decided to get rid of why he decided to fire Berman and the concern among former federal prosecutors from New York as well as folks in the legal community was that this wasn't effort to try to kind of a quash. These investigations Berman certainly. Suggested as much in a statement that he put out on Friday when he said that no, actually he, he's not resigning regardless of what Bill Barr says. In Berman said that you know the investigations. The cases that the office has underway will proceed will not be affected by all of this the big concern among folks. Watching this was that this was an effort by main justice by. Bar Who of course has has emerged as a as a very loyal advisor, loyal attorney general to the president. that. This was an effort by bar to to kind of. Bring all of this to heal. This appears to be part of a trend in. There's the concern that this was another instance in in the in the eyes of. Of Bar. Doing something as Attorney General? Try to help the president. So I think we need to connect a couple of dots here at the beginning of the podcast I, said that on Saturday president trump fired Berman, and then we've been talking about how the attorney general tried to fire him on Friday now. The White House is sort of saying like well. Yes, the president had to step in and do this, but like really it was all bar. It was all on bar. I guess we need to explain that the attorney. General couldn't technically fire Berman, and that's why the president had to step in. But why is the president distancing himself? Because it's a political mess for guy who's your fired was his actual slogan when he was on reality TV. He's very reluctant to actually be seen firing anyone. He went to great lengths to say. That the attorney. The Justice Department is his department as in bar. It's not my department. It's up to him I'm not involved will get exactly, and that's part of why. This past weekend was so stunning that you had bar put out a statement saying that the president has fired you and then shortly afterward the president as your as you're referencing there. Mar was asked about it and he said. nope, that's that's that's the Attorney General That's his department. I didn't have anything to do with it. I'm not involved which for bar looked really bad. It looked like he had come out, and said something, and the president was was now basically contradicting them flat out. You know people say this is part of a pattern with bar intervened for Roger Stone for Mike Flynn, but it's also a pattern for the president because he has removed a lot of people, government officials, who were investigating his administration the I. In several agencies the FBI director now the US Attorney I mean this is part of a pattern. The president does not like site in any form you know in all of this back and forth over the weekend there was one big change which in theory may affect whether all of these investigations go forward a pace or whether there is a change. And and that is that Berman by refusing to. See himself out the door It seems so. He was able to secure. Who would fill in for him this very public dispute with bar. Forced. Bar Essentially to instead of having his handpicked man instead. What's going to happen because of Berman's? A pushback is Berman's deputy has number two in the office? Audrey Strauss is going to take over on an acting basis, which is how this normally works and that for folks in the New York legal world, former federal prosecutors in New York is a big deal and many of them with whom I've spoken are breathing a sigh of relief because of this because they feel that the officers in independent hands with Ultra Strauss. Well. We are going to leave this conversation here for now. Ryan, thank you for being with US WE'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA show you the door with a little more services. And when we get back the aftermath of president, trump's restart the campaign rally in Tulsa. This message comes from NPR sponsor facebook. It's a challenging time for small businesses in communities across the country. FACEBOOK's business resource hub offers free tools to help manage a business support customers and employees and connect with other business owners who are facing similar challenges from information on how to bring a business online to setting up a customer service plan facebook's business resource how we can provide resources learn more at facebook dot com slash resource. Hey, all I'm Sam Sanders host of it's been a minute. There is a lack going on in the world, so I'm show my guest tonight. Make sense of the news and culture through conversation. It feels like we're living in three movies at once. Can put it the like a? Movie if feels like a Spike Lee movie and goes like a Michael Bay movie like. Every Tuesday and Friday listen and subscribe now to. It's been a minute from NPR. And we're back and we're joined by Asia Roscoe Hey. Hey, so we're all here because we cover the White House we cover the campaign, and the president held his first campaign rally since the pandemic took over on Saturday night in Tulsa, Oklahoma and He described it as sort of a relaunch. Homa we beginning? Thank you Oklahoma. Vice President Mike Pence. We Begin. The big restart of the campaign, and in there was a crowd, but it was a smaller crowd than expected, so there were a lot of empty seats. In the nineteen thousand capacity arena. It was not full and president. Trump I mean in many ways. It was a typical rally outside of the what seemed to be pretty. You know low relatively lower attendance. It was president trump talking about you know what he is upset about talking about the culture wars, talking about all of those things that he's known for, but not really. Talking about what's new and what he's GonNa do for the next four years. It was the day after June teens. No discussion of that no talk about racial reconciliation. No talk about George. Floyd, no talk about the recession or even much about Kobe. Said lots of grievances, so I thought it was an interesting speech. It was definitely well received in the hall. but I wonder how. How well it fits with this moment. it was a classic trump rally in a lot of ways. In terms of what the purpose of a campaign rally is in terms of messaging. He did roll out some of his attacks on Joe Biden. Though that certainly wasn't the thing that characterized the speech, but he did, he did talk Biden a little sure. If the Democrats gain power, the rioters will be in charge, and no one will be saying. That was a pretty clear method if the Democrats gain power. Then the riders will be charge, and no one will be saved, and no one will have control Joe Biden is not the leader of his party Joe. Biden is a helpless puppet of the radical left. Yeah to call them a Trojan horse for socialism. Biden. He may not be the radical left, but he will be ruled by the quote, unquote radical left, but you know it was interesting to me. I did a piece on how the culture wars are changing and raising the question of whether trump will adjust to the fact. They're changing Nasr cars, not flying the confederate flag. The NFL apologized for punishing dealers. ETC, etc, but you didn't see any adjustment in that speech. He talked about confederate symbols, being quote our herited, so if you want to say. You want to save that. Beautiful heritage of is. We have a great heritage. We're a great country. You are so lucky on residents. That's all I can tell. Is Our exact. Everybody here. Certainly not but the people that he was speaking to in that arena and So it was a lot of red meat. Culture war material. And that's still gets a big response from the people in his rallies, and if this is a focus group, the focus groups said to trump. Keep on doing what you're doing. Except this focus group was a lot smaller than it used to be. Yeah I, so I have been talking to people in the trump orbit White House official campaign official and The message I've gotten is that they oversold it. They created such high expectations that there'd be this full arena. One thousand, nine hundred thousand people packed in another twenty, thousand outside, and instead depending on whose numbers you believe it was somewhere between six and twelve thousand in the arena. Trump himself said before the rally. We've never had an MTC at a rally of mine and we won't have any in Oklahoma. And there were lots of empty blue seats. I mean we should say though this. This is one rally. This is one moment which did seem to you know. Do Not meet the expectations that campaign set, but it is just one moment right. Rallies are very important to donald trump. That doesn't mean that rallies are very important to donald trump's ability to get reelected I mean he still is the incumbent and incumbents usually win. He has tremendous amounts of money, so he's still got all of the strengths that he had before. He dominates social media that hasn't changed and now the question is do they need to show? He can still turn out twenty thousand and twenty five thousand people or not. And how badly do they need to show it? Given everything that's going on well. We are going to leave it there for now to come certainly. This Wednesday we are doing another facebook live event we're going to look at how the national conversation around race and the ongoing culture wars are impacting the presidential election and we want your questions. Let us know what you're curious about by emailing us. At NPR politics at NPR DOT Org I'm Tamer Keith I cover the White House. I'm sure Rasco I also cover the White House and I'm Mara Liasson national political correspondent, and thank you for listening to the VR politics podcast.

president Jeffrey Berman President Trump Ryan trump attorney New York NPR White House trump donald trump US attorney facebook Oklahoma Justice Department US Vice President Mar Elias national political corresponde White House Joe Biden
Amanpour: Kristalina Georgieva, Reverend William J. Barber II, Anne Milgram, Matthew Desmond and Afua Hirsch

Amanpour

57:30 min | 4 months ago

Amanpour: Kristalina Georgieva, Reverend William J. Barber II, Anne Milgram, Matthew Desmond and Afua Hirsch

"I'm Don Lemon and I'm taking on the hard conversations about being black in America real talk and meaningful solutions on my new CNN podcast. Silence is not an option. Listen on Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello everyone and welcome to Alan Poor. Here's what's coming up. Corona virus cases rising millions out of work and a reckoning with racial injustice. Could this be the fork in the road to building back a better world I ask the IMF chief and taking up Dr King's Mantle Reverend William Baba joins me about fighting structural poverty that platforms structural racism, then when the rule of law is under, threaten America. What does that mean for democracy around the? The World I speak to former federal prosecutor Anne milgram about trump firing, a top attorney, investigating his allies, plus all of us know that we need stable affordable housing to live. This is essential to us, but our country has not invested in this fundamental human need another brick in the wall of racism on Fair Housing in America Matthew. Desmond tells Michelle Martin about the coming pandemic evictions. Welcome to the program. Everyone I'm Christiane poor working from home in London the WHO is now warning the coronavirus pandemic is far from over in fact, its accelerating in some countries including the United States where nearly half of states are reporting an increase in infections along with the mounting bodycount, the brazen killing in broad daylight of George Floyd, which is reignited the black lives matter movement on the streets around world. There is a sense of seizing the moment, and now some unlikely institutions including the US federal. Reserve a speaking out warning that income inequality for minorities could get even worse. Thanks to the pandemic, even the notoriously. Notoriously hard bargaining international monetary fund is talking about building a better world from the current crises while also preparing to release it updated assessment of the global economy this week and the IMF managing director. Kristalina Yoga joins me now from Washington. For an exclusive interview. Welcome to the program and I was very interested in reading how you have analyzed the situation that you have to try to figure out how to come out of this into a better structure, a better a better world, but first. Let me ask you because the world is waiting to hear about the next assessment of where the global economy is headed. What can you tell us about what's on your mind? Given the increase in some places of Corona, virus infections. The headline of our assessment is that the recession is deeper in twenty twenty. Then we projected in April. The recovery is going to be slower in twenty twenty one. Then we projected in April. But the action's governments had taken have put a floor under the world economy and are preventing a massive wave of bankruptcies or unemployment. What we are seeing is that both advance economies and emerging market economies are faring worse in this assessment. If you take out especially China that was first on the curve of the pandemic. And therefore what we are saying is, we are not yet out of the woods. We have to concentrate on supportive measures for longer, and we need to think of a recovery that is going to bring forward our world, not not. Backward So I'M GONNA. Put this off because it does show. How in the E U? In European countries, the curve is coming down while in the United States. It's sort of flattening in some places on flattening in other words, it's carrying on along. That are all along that horizontal road with some countries with a lot of countries, lifting lockdowns and restarting their economies with fits and starts and fairly slowly. How is that going to affect the issues? Eve just talked about and particularly. In America, there's still talking about you. Hear the president's Economic Advisers, talking about a v-shaped recovery is that. Does that look like being on the table? Well. Recovery we forsee now is one that will coexist with the pandemic becky April. We were still hoping that somehow the epidemic puts would REC-. And we can see a v-shaped recovery, but this is clearly not happening. Not only the pandemic is still with us, but its course continues. The epicenter now moved to art in America. We are quite worried about. Parts of south. Asia and we don't yet know whether Africa will also followed this speed up of infections. So what we can say on the positive side is that. Countries, have learned. Enough about actions. They need to take heavy enough medical capacity to treat people when they're sick. Be sure to wear masks and. A sufficiently apply micromeasures that allow restart economic activities and be very agile in your policies. As! We are still waiting for the decisive component vaccines and treatment to be in place. So look generally institutions like yours and the Fed and others are allergic today, and yet right now there is mountains of debt. We have a graph that can show that and you have also said I don't know it sounds different to what the IMF would generally say you. The messages exceptional times call for exceptional measures, so spend what you can, but keep the receipts. What are you saying? The debt is just going to be without some. We shouldn't worry about it for now. What we need to do now. Is to protect the economy of such a massive collapse that it can push us in depression, and that is why we highly value actions taken by central banks to put in liquidity actions taken by. Its with fiscal measures on an unprecedented scale Christiaan. We are now edging up to almost eleven trillion dollars fiscal measures alone, and what we know is that as long as this degree of uncertainty is with us as long as we need to protect firms and people. That necessity of additional. Support for the economy is there, but we do need to think of the world on the other side, higher debt higher deficit. Likely higher unemployment and very important a risk of. Inequality more poverty. Now, we have to put some smart policies in place meaning that this very fiscal stimulus that we are going to inject. We have to be thinking of how best to put it in place to do the right thing and the right thing is well. Make sure that we invest in. The economy of the future that is greener. low-carbon resilient to climate shocks that we invest in digital access for everybody. One of my worries is the big winner of this crisis, the digital economy. Maybe good for some, but not for all and by doing that lack of faxes for everybody we expand inequality in our society and we know from. Experiences with pandemics like with SARS and h one. N One that pandemics push inequality up especially for the people with lower education. Fewer. Assets in their hands. Do we really want that? We don't and not only for the people that may be impacted for does that. My may find themselves poor and excluded. We don't want it for anybody. Because inequality of opportunity means that a big chunk of our society does not contribute as much as they can, so everybody's were. And that is what we need to focus on. And as you know, of course, because on the streets. Of making that cried right now. Black lives matter racial inequality. You've seen all the disparities that you've mentioned along racial minority lines and the US Federal Reserve is beginning to engage on this and we've heard Rafael Bostick who's the president of the reserve in Atlanta basically say systemic racism is a yoke that drags on the American economy and said basically the feds complained important role in helping to reduce racial inequities and bring about a more inclusive economy. So, what do you think about that and does that? Affect your thinking. It is very much aligned with the research. We had done a damn F- about inequality. Including structural inequality beat on race? Or on geography. Or on whether you're a man or a woman. And so we clearly demonstrate that they are ways in which. By, making sure that there is equal access to education that the quality of education health services. Is across the board everything that they are no areas geographic areas that are left to decline with no attention with with crumbling infrastructure. Investment in digital are done with priority focus on these areas that are falling behind this all is a pathway to reduce inequality and a very important element that. The. Finance Institutions Skin Porsche is access to finance equal opportunity in access to find us. Look every single bay four hundred children for country. Thousand Children are born on this planet, every single day. Winter born. It's lottery. Race gender geography. Your family swelled. It doesn't have to be lottery all the way through we can make. It sold that every child can reach its full potential. Entities? A Matter of determined policy choice that we ought to make. KRISTALINA Georgieva head of the IMF managing director. Thank you so much for joining us. and. Our next guest joins the ranks of Martin Luther King and Congressman John Lewis in devoting his life to fighting poverty and racial injustice. Reverend William Baba is coach of the poor people's campaign. which this weekend had its own march on Washington calling for economic. Justice only this one. The twenty twenty version was virtual with more than two million people taking part according to the organizers Reverend Barbara is joining me now from Raleigh North. Carolina welcome back to the program. Reverend I said. In, the introduction that this seems to be a moment on the street and in the pandemics. That is a moment to seize this day. Do you believe and you just heard the IMF achieve? Do you believe that institutions that can are serious about making this matter right now in your issue? This is a moment, but it's been a moment this coming because of the confluence of movements that have been building for instances we can't. We Now said we had two point five million people on facebook, and we can track that metrically, and over three hundred thousand people that sent our platform to governors, and all of the members of Congress This was the centering into our national consciousness of movement made. Made up of all races and faiths and creeds and sexuality, bowing to say listen we have to address five interlocking injustice, systemic racism, and all of its components how it impacts first nation people how it impacts. Brown people, and black people, systemic poverty, one hundred and forty million people, forty percent of this nation, ecological devastation as undermining the clean air, clean water, clean, clean land, and then the war economist. Fifty four cents of every description dollar into war, and that is more money than we put into education infrastructure healthcare combine, and then we have to address this false mar narrative religious national and went to walk five million people and said we're we. We can't go to DC. We were planning to be up, but we're going to be online. WE'RE GONNA sign up and we're GONNA join. That is critically sansom that we in a reconstruction moment we're not in a moment, but just taking around the edges with not in a moment for people just trying to say like people, but they don't change policies. This is a transformational moment. Well to that point you've you've written earlier this month. There's one onset to why the wealthiest nation in the world cannot provide for its most vulnerable. We have decided not to, and so you are you know again for the structural enter to the structural poverty. Do you think this? Despite the streets and the two point five million who joined your virtual March? That does the political will where it's needed to actually make this shift, because it is a shift in distribution of resources. It will have to be where we not only in the streets, but we're GONNA have to the voting booth and that's why we're also building power. We've had a moment where the people are going to have to change the political. Atmosphere just like people that went cross. Edmund Pettus Bridge. None of the politicians wanted to deal with voting rights. The president wanted didn't want to deal with, but the people forced a change in the political context, and that wasn't even in an election year. We have a greater possibility because we are in the middle of an election. That doesn't mean. Go devoting November and then leave and go home. It means that we have to build power, and we have to show people what we did on Saturday. It wasn't people talking about the poor. Poor, we've got thousands of text back. That said we saw ourselves. We said Look America. You must see yourself these five interlocking injustices, affecting a white farmer couple in Kansas just like its affecting coalminers in Kentucky, affecting fast workers in north, Carolina and people down in the Delta Mississippi and more, we show that to the people at the possibly of chained. Not Politicians are going to have to understand what this moment is still playing with it. They don't understand yet. This is the moment and they better, because if we can't fix these. These issues in the midst of a pandemic and the mist of the poverty is coming. There's going to be added another fifteen thousand people and unemployment if we can't face, these issues of raising living wage isn't getting healthcare and deal with poverty God. Help us as a country. This is the moment this is the moment that we must be of his movement and we're what we're saying. We're not going anywhere. We're going to be at the voting booth. Whoever wins? We're going to be still in their face. We're GONNA. Keep pushing because. Because what other choice that we have is one guy said on Saturday. Our backs are against the wall. We have no other choice but to fight in. Lastly, we've got to decide in this country. Do we believe in our first declaration? And that is life because every regressive policy denial of healthcare living wages, even denial of voting rights has what I call it mission. People die when we don't have healthcare. People die when they don't have been waiting. People die when we have voter suppression that people used voter suppression to get in. And then once they get in office, they protect corporate polluters, and they deny healthcare and they blocked wages. We're going to deal with the death of George Florida as we should. We have to deal with the desk that we don't see on camera, but happen everyday to the tone of seven hundred four people dying every day from poverty. We have to deal with the death measurement. Otherwise, we don't mean what we say when we say, we are life, liberty and the pursuit of happened. So what happens then when you have a situation of voter suppression and all the other issues that you're are working against Stacey. Abrams is working against. Obviously, we saw what happened in the primary in Georgia and now we hear you obviously you know these figures better than I do. The you says one in every thirteen black Americans cannot vote. Ju to disenfranchise. Disenfranchisement, laws. Are you convinced that everybody wants to vote in your community? You said that's the first step will be able to in November and throughout the primary season. When I talk about my community, I'm talking about poor and low well regardless of what their colors. Because we've done a study, we'll release in just a moment that shows if you just register fifteen percent of poor and low wealth people and they vote, they can fundamentally change the political calculus in every state, and they can overwhelm the system so what we said we fight against. Against Voter suppression in the court, we will fight and have poll-watchers, but we must overwhelm the system. A hundred million people stayed home last time in the three states that trump Juan. Wisconsin, Pennsylvania Michigan by one hundred and one thousand votes to million-plus poor and low wealth people that could vote didn't vote, and so what you're saying is it's time to put that all of. Of that power on the table now to do that, we need politicians to stop just talking about the Neo liberalism and the middle class, and start talking about the pool and say how their plan their policies on banking their policies on wages, their policies on on healthcare will help. Everybody will lift up at Brown they need to say this is. How will help the black community? Community. This is the white community. This is how it will help Kentucky this will help those in this is how we help those in the Delta, so that people hear that name and he had that condition. A lot of folks have stayed home these past election, because the politicians only talk about the middle class and the wealthy, poor and low wealth people expanding the voting. Numbers are the key to fundamental transformation in this country, and it's time pastime that we talked to them with saying that to the candidates I certainly hope those wondering against trump will do that if they do it, they will see a mass turnout of voters like never before, but then again. We are also saying even if they don't do it. We're going to be a power. Go to the poll and make it so that the poor and low wealth in this country can no longer be ignored. This is a movement time. We have to have a third reconstruction and we have to have it now. Because, too. Many people in power are too comfortable with other people's deaths. And desperation. Just. And and you do represent the poor disproportionate amount according to all the statistics on black-americans, minorities, and we understand that there's obviously going to be this primary in. Kentucky Tomorrow and in Jefferson, county home to nearly eight hundred thousand people. Apparently, we'll just have one polling station open and one in five residents is African American. You know everything starts voting I guess and fitting out the the senses. How are you going to be able to convince people to get over those hurdles? Well a couple of things first of all disproportions, sixty one percent of African Americans I well, but sixty six million people, poor low well, which is forty million more than the twenty six million black people now having said that we worked in Kentucky for two years before this last governor was elected, and we worked in five counties and three of them trains from trump counties to voting for this new governor and the governor. Wa. When when black folk from a rule Easter knocking out outta hooked up with Black Pete from Louisville and bounded together. They needed to take on extremism and their state. We say to the people who are fighting court. Tomorrow you gotta stay in that line. You GotTa do what you have to do. If you don't have a one because people died for and Dan, we've got a fight between now and the fall to open up the open up those more districts we've got assuming court emergency decisions to make sure that there are more precincts in people have access to the ballot through mailing, but what we have to do is be determined. We cannot let these people who want to steal this. This election and undermines democracy, win and I say the folk in my community, particularly that if our people face down dogs, and they face down out outmatch moths, then surely we can face down those who simply want to keep us from the poll. This really is a moment that if that that you have to decide, these matters are of life and death in our communities there are matter of life and death of this democracy, so we have to fighting the courts. Move in the streets, and we have to move at the ballot box and we have to stay there. The other do whatever we need to do. Non Byland register our, both because they wouldn't be fighting so hard to keep us from voting if they could win a fair election and poor and low, well black, white, Brown, first nation people have the power to change this election and we have to do it. And it was actually very inspiring. Watch. All those people stand in line for hours amid the chaos of went on in Georgia primary to actually 'cause their ballots, so that was pretty amazing civic duty Reverend Baba. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Urgency, frequency leakage, they may not be water cooler topics, but about one in three Americans over the age of forty experience, these symptoms of overactive bladder, or a at least sometimes, it's embarrassing having to worry about having an accident. Looking back I should have talked to my doctor about it sooner. A lot of people just try to deal with a symptoms, but we spoke to some who sought out a treatment plan. Listen in it Oh a B. Mid dot com, and hear how they got over the embarrassment and ask their doctor about Mir Patrick. Mirror Baghran. Is a prescription medicine for adults used to treat O. symptoms of urgency frequency in leakage. Do not take if you have an allergic reaction to your patrick or its ingredients near Metro may increase blood pressure. Tell your doctor right away. If you have trouble emptying your bladder, have a a week here in stream Mir, metric may cause serious allergic reactions like swelling of the face lips throw tongue, trouble breathing, if experienced. Stop taking until your doctor right away, mere rhetoric may interact with other medicines. Tell your doctor if you're taking fire redesign. Melrose s flick. Flick an I tend core pro PANIN rhythm all the Jackson Nachson or Sola. Phoenix sucks and till your doctor liver kidney problems, common side effects include increased blood, pressure, common, cold or flu, symptoms, sci-fi rotation, dry, mouth, urinary tract, infection, bladder, inflammation, backer, joint, pain, constipation, dizziness, and headache Sierra in Reader's Digest magazine, or call one, eight, five, five, six, nine, seven, two, three, eight seven. If you're dealing with O. A., B., symptoms, speak up and talk to your doctor and ask about Mir. Veteran learn more that Oh A. Med dot com. That's. M. E. D. dot com. Now talking more about the power of democracy. Why did the Attorney General William Barr fired Jeffrey Berman? He's the top prosecutor at the Manhattan US Attorney's Office. Berlin was appointed after president trump fired his predecessor in two thousand seventeen, but now his office is investigated some of the president's allies, including his lawyer Rudolph Giuliani so. What does this latest in a string of judicial and oversight firing say about the rule of law in today's America with me to discuss and milgram formerly a federal prosecutor and Attorney General of New Jersey and she's now professor at Neocon University's law school joining me now from Monmouth County in New Jersey welcome back to the program. You've had all weekend to sort of. Think about the meaning wise in the workforce of this latest firing. Why do you think it happened? What would you immediately sort of leap to? Yeah. I mean we're still we're still finding out more. There was just an article released by The Wall Street Journal that painted a picture of Attorney General Bar, being very angry with the US attorney in the Southern District Jeffrey Berman over Berman's refusal to sign a letter criticizing New York City Mayor Bill De blasios related to religious freedom and the existing protest movement, but it's really not clear to us. US, whether there was one specific thing and you pointed out now that there have been investigations, but there are a lot of investigations that touch the president or the president's associates, including the president's Bank deutchebanks, including an indictment against the Turkish state. Bank including as you mentioned Michael, Cohen Rudy Giuliani, and so on, and so it really does look with the timing being just five months before the next election. And with somebody who's Berman the US attorney who's been involved in all these very high profile, investigations and charges against the president's associates. It felt very political in the way that it was done and I think raises a huge number of questions that have to be answered by attorney, General, bar. Were also the questions of who did what when because? It seems like Bob said that he was going to step down Burma Burma's said no I'm not resigning. Then bar panic goes to the president and says fire him that happened, and then the president says what is not me. It's the attorney general. How do you read what you read into all of that? So. That's a great question and. The first thing I tell you is that it's bizarre how this went down? I mean it's very clear. That bar did not tell Jeff Berman that. The Attorney General did not tell the US attorney southern district, and he was going to essentially fire him by a press release on Friday night, so that press release comes out and in response the US Attorney Greg Jeff Firm and basically says look you actually don't have the legal authority to fire may which I believe is true under Section five forty, six twenty eight United States coat. Basically the attorney general can put in a US attorney for one hundred twenty days then the court could end that this is what happened in New York, the court. Court then put Jeff Berman and as the US attorney, it's very clear in my view that the president has the authority to fire US attorneys, but that the attorney general does not and so this is something that was interesting, because bars essentially was trying I think to do it without invoking the president's authority and what Berman did is he basically pushed back and said No. I was appointed by the court. You can't fire me now. What's really interesting? Is that then on Saturday bar in my view really steps back in some ways from this he writes. He writes a somewhat very sharp letter to Jerry Berman to the to the US attorney. Saying you know the president has now fired you. And what we will do is instead of putting in what bar had proposed on Friday night was to put in the acting New Jersey basically the US. The US attorney in Jersey Craig Carpenter. Bar had suggested moving him to the southern district, so he would oversee both, which is again very very unusual and strange and then. Berman, had pushed back on that as well and so on Saturday. The G. comes back bill bark back and says. You're the president is firing. You and we're going to put in your deputy. Audrey Strauss as the new United States, attorney and so it feels to me like Berman was really pushing back against not just the way he was being fired, but also the fact that they were really going out of the chain of command, basically taking the leadership of the southern district, completely out of the southern district, which again is really not heard of and so as of Saturday afternoon we ended up in a situation where Jeff Burma agreed to step out, but now his deputy Audrey Strauss is the as the acting United States attorney in the southern district. So can you connect to dog? And how do you assess? The gathering dogs so to speak because the Attorney General Bob did something similar in Washington, didn't he pushed aside the head of the Washington DC District Jessie. Liu and he had intervened in cases previously. Involving President Trump associates people like Roger Stone Michael Flynn. Is that. What is? Do you think he's trying to do in New York I? Mean sort of take control of a lot of these areas that maybe investigating president, trump's associates or dealings. I think to Jesse. Louis example is really one of the most important parts of this conversation, because what what bill barge there is. He essentially pushed her out as the united. States attorney in Washington. He then put in his own person. WHO's since left, but that person totally changed the way that they are prosecuting Roger Stone. If you recall the sentencing recommendations in response, a number of career prosecutors at the Department of Justice left they. They either resigned from the case, or they resigned from the department, but it did look like bar effectively was able to do it because Jesse, Liu agreed to essentially resign and here the difference is that Berman really stood his ground and said they can't fire me. Only the president can fire me I was I was put in by the courts and really push back and so I. Think of course all the attention. It got really. Pushed back Attorney General Bar, but yes, I think I. Think what concerns me is where five months out from election we we know that there are a lot of high profile cases in the southern district related to the president's associates. It is also very possible that there are new matters that we don't know about but we do know is that Berman has appeared to. Conduct himself well as as the Federal Chief Federal Prosecutor there, and this also reminds me of other thing that's worth just mentioning if you remember back to two thousand and seven when Alburto Gonzales the attorney general for George W Bush, he fired nine US attorneys and the president of the United States can fire US attorneys, but they can't do it for political reasons. They can't do it to try you know there's there's all. All kinds of ways in which they cannot exert their influence over this process and politicize criminal prosecutions, and so, what's really interesting here is, and this is why I think bill bar needs to answer questions like yes. The President has absolute authority to fire US attorney, but you can't do it to for political gain or for political purpose, and we saw Alberto Gonzales ultimately resigned. What was found out that there was political motivation? So expanding it now to basically undermining justice, the rule of law, the America's unique position in the world on these on these issues of moral values and Constitutional values. There's a conservative scholar who was a film, a government official and wrote this about bill. baas actions in the Atlantic. This is how `authoritarian works to subvert justice. He proposed to uphold the forms of justice. In this case, the formal rule that the attorney general in the President Exercise High Rock who control over the US attorney's while undermining the substance of justice. You think that's what's happening. Book I read that piece as well and I think that there this is one of many things that have happened since bill bar has been attorney general that really do call into question the Department of Justice and the rule of law. I mean we've seen countless times where bar now has appointed investigators to look at prior investigations. He's gone out of his way to summarize the. The report in a way that that to me at least did not seem accurate, so he's changed the sentencing on. Roger Stone He's dismissed the Michael Flynn. Case I mean there's just example after example we can give and I think the end result. Is that and I'm and I'm an alum of the Department of Justice and believed that the men and women who work there. There are there to do the right thing, but it is really called into question I think for many Americans whether the Department of Justice has been politicized, and it is such such a problem when it comes to criminal prosecutions and the rule of law, being enforced against people, which is critical and rule of society and democracy like we are, if people don't have faith that. That the government is doing it and is doing it fairly, and so you need people in positions of power, because these are extraordinarily powerful positions people who are making decisions based on the law and the facts, and not on political motivations, and so I think that this is you know one in a very very long list of ways in which the department has been politicized. And as an alum, it really pains me personally, because again I think the men and women who work there are extraordinary lawyers WanNa do the right thing, and so I believe that bar should be called to testify. Think he should have to answer to this and what's happening? And you know again. We're five months out from an election so strange timing but I do think it's also worth noting that he will not get to put his pick in right now I believe for the Southern District, and so we've come to a point where there is at least some pushback I think that's really important. It's really fascinating. Especially, you mentioned the Turkish State. Bank, and of course John Bolton. If you believe what he's written in his book, suggests that authoritarian leaders like the president of Turkey felt that they could intercede with president trump for him to intercede on their behalf very very very worrying in the courts and mill room. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Now with little access to affordable housing, the majority of poor Americans spend more than half of their incomes on keeping a roof over their heads, which for many means ending up on the street if they can't. The eviction lab at Princeton University Proposes Remedies that are in turn the key to Economic Mobility, Professor Matthew Desmond's book evicted poverty and Prophet in the American City was awarded a Pulitzer prize in two thousand seventeen and here he is talking to Michelle Martin about how the system got so broken. Thanks Christiane professor doesn't thank you so much for joining us. For having me. I have to say that if you live in a city, maybe even suburb. This is a story. That's like right in front of your face I. Mean we've all seen? This Ross People's belongings piled up on the sidewalk ball seeing a rental band so frantically. You don't throwing people's stuff in it and yet. The scope of this is something that I. Just don't think a lot of people think about. When did it get to be this way? Yeah, on the one hand. Poor. Americans have always struggled with housing. There's a story of tenements story of living underground without heat and running water, so on the one hand it's an old story on the other hand when you read newspaper accounts of addictions from the thirties or forties, you're struck by how strange and scandalous they were. You know there are reports the new. York Times in the thirties at say you know three people getting addicted in the Bronx and hundreds of people showed up the protest. That's not where we are right now misnomer. We've got quite used to the sound of the knock on the door. In the early trump rumbling through your neighbor eviction had become incredibly commonplace in the lives of many Americans. And why? This problem has three main ingredients incomes for many Americans have been very stagnant over the last ten years, even over the last forty years in many parts of the country, real incomes have fallen. But what is not been stagnant housing costs to rinse and utility costs have risen incredibly fast over the last fifteen years. So there's this shrinking gap between what many Americans are earning at work and what they have to pay for basic shelter needs, and then we might say well. Wait a minute. Where where's the government here? Worst public housing or I've heard of housing doctors, don't they? Help and the answer is that they absolutely do help, but they're only for a small minority of families that need their only one in four families who qualify for any kind of housing assistance receive it. Which means most poor renting families today in America's over half of their income on housing costs. And one in four, those families are spending over seventy percent of their income just on rent and utilities. There's no entitlement, just safe a decent shelter in this country. It's like a lottery system I mean if only for the people who are eligible get, and it's really lock right. Y- lottery is the exact way. Many policymakers describe our current housing situation I have two young children. If I applied for public housing today in Washington DC, for example, chances are I would be a grandfather. By the time my application came up for review the waiting list for public housing in some of our largest cities, not candidate years anymore cannon decades. All of us now that we need stable affordable housing to lift, this is essential to us, but our country has not invested in this fundamental human need. One of the things that struck me is that you've been assembling a database that did not exist, and this is incredible, because this is a country loves cow everything. We Love to count everything I mean. Tell you at any given point. You know how many trees planted on any given street and when they were planted. So how's it didn't know this? So how did you notice? This is what I'm asking you. So I wrote a book in milk in Milwaukee and I looked at the addiction numbers in Milwaukee and I thought Gosh these really high one in fourteen homes in the inner city of Milwaukee is addicted. Every that's that's standing number. In, so, when I started talking to communities around the country about my book I'd be in Houston or la or Baton Rouge Louisiana people say will what's eviction like in my community are higher or lower What cities are doing it right? which policies work and we had no answers to these questions. Federal Government doesn't collect data on addiction. It doesn't even collect data. From its own housing from public housing, so we were really designing policy art. Imagine if we didn't know how many car accidents happen to be every year in America. How many graduated from High School? That's kind of the State of our knowledge about addiction, so we took it on ourselves to build the first ever national database of addiction, but I think this is really a job to the federal government should be doing another point that you make in the book you say. Incarceration had comes define the lives of men from impoverished black neighbors. Eviction was shaking. The lives of women who are black network locked up who are black women were locked out. Why is that? Go into any housing court all around the country, and you'll see rows and rows of MOMS with their kids there. We can't understand the addiction crisis without understanding the history of racism, in America, and the systematic dispossession of people of Color in particular African Americans from the land from the soil of America that started in slavery and went through share cropping. You can fall that trend through the great. Migration ghettoisation, black folks It took Martin Luther King, getting murdered on a Memphis balcony. In a racial segregation of housing market, but when that happened, there are other things african-americans confronted. Racial Discrimination still exists in large part to, and you can follow it all the way up to the some prime lending crisis where we know. Communities of color were targeted by predatory lending institutions. And so most white Americans are homeowners, most black and Latino Americans are arrangers of because of that history, so they're exposed in new ways and women are particularly vulnerable in these communities. If they're single moms for example, housing needs to be bigger than is there not because the kids can take up more space than that increases their housing costs, and just a poverty and financial security that many single moms face exposes them onto a bitch, really high rates. In your book convicted, you tell. The story is a number of different families and how they came to go through this and I. Do want to mention all are not. You know single black mothers there are there are other people there are men there. There's white. Male nurse who lost his license when he stole opiates MS patients. There are a number of other people I do WanNa. Ask you to tell me a story of one of the the people who you say sort of to advise action crisis. I was thinking. Maybe maybe range the. Tell me restoring like. How did this? How did this happen to her? And how does restore exemplify all young sitting want? Sure, so he right? Addiction affects communities. All across the country affects Kennedy's Pino Communities African American communities about one in five of all American renters is now spending over half of their income on housing costs, so it is a widespread problem. But. Someone like lean really does typify the face of the election crises that America's when I first met Arlene, she was a single mom, African American woman, she was raising two kids, and when I met her, she was bending over eighty eight percent of our income on rent. Just on Rindt forget about utilities. So how is that even possible? Won't what Arlene would be wish she would pay the landlord in the winter when there was a moratorium on on. On utility, shots shops, but when the moratorium lifted in, April she had a pay the utility companies, so she can be back in the black come next winter, and so these are the kind of situations so many Americans are facing. Should I pay my landlord of the company? Should I buy food or pay the rent? orlenas facing that that situation every month when she got a victim wasn't necessarily because she made a mistake or had a bird. Lives. Her fiction is much more the result of inevitability than irresponsibility. When you're paying so much of your income, just for Basic Alson I'm glad you mentioned that. Because one of the points that you make I think a lot of people have this idea that people get just because they don't know how to handle their money. You know that they're just a responsible or making their plant. They're buying their kids or playstation where they really should be paying rent or they're just. They just handle their money. They don't know how they don't have the skills. They should take a class or something like that and you. Tell me what you have to say about that. You. Know I think that that kind of idea that harm is being visited? Two families 'cause they messed up gives us some comfort. It makes us think we can control our lives. You know if we play by the rules It'll be okay for us, but there are a lot of Americans that are playing by the rules that are working hard, but articulate kids that are sacrificing, and they're still facing this problem. Not by the thousands of the tens of thousands, but by the millions every year in this country, this is not just a situation of. Spending your money on a playstation or being responsible. This is a situation where rents have gone out of control and millions of Americans can no longer afford basic shelter. And it's a snowball effect. We one of the point that you may very clearly. Is that this snowballs because you're constantly? Getting knocked down so the. Client your way back when you lose everything or at least you lose some things. Then what do you do you get back into sheltered and have no Satan's. You have no question and then you got this record that follows you. What's the consequence of having the of infection as part of your your financial record? What happens? To so when addictions goes to the court process, there's there's a record that's created that record is public, and it's published often published on line for anyone to see. Lord see that they often say no, because from a landlord point of view that's that's a big deal. That's A. It's a marker of risks that maybe this person. Isn't going to be a good tenant for me, so that means families who? are pushed into worst neighborhoods and into worst housing after they move, because allow. Landlords are seeing that mark. They're saying now. The market division can keep your public housing because many public housing authorities actually view in fiction record as a mark against your application that means were systematically denied housing help to the families that need it. The most addiction records reported to credit bureaus as well and I think this is a really important point to stress. Now in Kobe, there's GonNa be a lot of families. They're going to get that addiction. Record wells currently though. I understand that number CS have imposed. Eviction Moratoriums is that pretty much a nationwide standard I mean the fact that most gates at some point it in post these shutdown whereas has that intervened in this crisis. I think the media coverage of the moratoriums has been too rosy. Honestly you know there have been some states. Are, Connecticut Delaware Minnesota that Harold out pretty strong moratoriums, stopping a bitch and all parts of the. But there are a lot of states. have it. You know by our estimate there about thirty one million renters living in states where the moratoriums are very weak, and even in states where the reforms were okay, and they stopped convictions, those are starting to expire so now hearing stories of addiction core, being held over zoom, or over over the phone, which means we care about the safety of court officers, but not safety of families that are gonNA lose their home in their shelter and I think the big question is what's going to happen to the millions of renters who? have been protected over the last two months, but as those more terms lifted a summer. What's going to happen next? We about landlord's though for a minute. What's their role in his you medal? Landlords like West near deal. How do they see this? Because the overwhelming majority of landlords are still individuals. Aren't they I? Mean they're not these big corporations are. That's a hard question. Actually answer. It's a hard question now who owns our cities many even individual proprietors will use L. season other companies. To do their business, and so you know if you asked to the top of victim landlords, Washington. DC. Who are the landlords that aren't doing a lot of convictions. The are really hard questions, and it really shows the gaps, and in our data to now from landlords, point of view, they have received rent, which means they received income, and for many they're stretched. You know and they have bills to pay as well. So a lot of times when he talked about these issues, we say okay. Are we on the tenant? Side? We on the landlord's side. We don't need to do that. The system isn't working. It's not working for both parties now in a fiction is not going to solve the landlords problem. You know what's going to solve the landlords. Problem is serious injection of relief for both attendance and property owners to get us through the spell. But she the. System isn't working. Why is that okay? Let's break this down. When we first started public housing in the country, we started very late. In the modern public housing system, these ideas these towering. Buildings in Chicago or. Saint Louis Atlanta. When families I moved into those buildings. They thought it was amazing. Often, they said this is incredible gives member. There are moving from slumps. They were moving from incredibly dangerous degrading housing. Now that policy was also infused by American racism know public housing concentrated racism race in a concentrated Auburn way that reflected our national center, and so that was absolutely unconsciously wrong, but it was also true that public housing failed because we made it fail, you know we defended public housing. President Reagan cut the budget for public housing by over sixty percent six zero percent any program we have in America. America is GonNa fail with that kind of cut. And so when those towers went down, they didn't go down because the idea necessarily was corrupt at the route, they went down because we choke them to death now when arose from their ashes with Society of housing dodgers. If I qualify for a voucher I can take that ticket. I can live anywhere. I want in the private rental market songs. My housing is too expensive or too shoddy as it passed basic tests in instead of paying fifty sixty percent of my income to rent I pay thirty in the voucher covers arrests. Does, that work absolutely that works I mean studies that show and families receive a voucher. They moved to better neighborhoods. They don't move as much studies consistently find that. When families receive back ticket, they do one. Thing with their income, which is they buy more food? Their! Kids become stronger now they work the thing that's not working about them. Is Our lottery that most families that need him? Don't get them so they perfect now, but what is the big problem? Is that waiting rest? That's the big problem with doctors and I also hear you say that you think were unaccustomed. Another fiction crisis because of the severe job loss of experienced over the last couple of months the response to the Cobra nineteen a health crisis. So what's keeping you up at night right now? And what's giving you hope right now. So, unless we have a serious intervention. In the crisis it's hard for us not to anticipate a wave of Vixen and homelessness is going to wash over the country throughout the summer and into the fall as the moratoriums lift. I think for many of us had become something. We've reached it when. So fast when a tenant can't make the rent, and this is an all property owners. This is a good amount of them and I think we need rent relief at the scale the problem they don't get it. We're going to have more disease spread. We're going to have more poverty spread and more social suffering in the country. That's. Is keeping me up at night. But I'm hopeful about. Is what's happening on our streets today. I'm hopeful that the countries having a moral reckoning with its legacies. Of Racism. You know anyone who studies a social problem like addiction or incarceration or job loss. We quickly realized that racism is at the very heart of that problem. You know this is at the heart of the election crisis in the heart of many social ills around the country and so. I'm I'm hopeful that we as a nation are at a at a place where we can fully face the sense of our past sins of our present. Where we can enter into a new chapter where we we actually believe in act on values, we profess that there should be equality under the law. There should be equal opportunity and where you're born shouldn't dictate your future. Professor, Desmond Matthew Decimate you so much for speaking with us today. Thank you Michelle for having me. And finally we address a moral reckoning about the sins of great. Britain's passed on what's known as Wind Rush Day here a recent honor to the first Caribbean migrants who brought over to rebuild this country some seventy two years ago after World War Two only for many of their descendants to be wrongfully detained and even deported in a toughened up immigration system two years ago, the scandal that ensued highlights the UK's long struggle. Struggle with colonialism and racism, a new poll commissioned by CNN finds the Black Britons twice as likely as whites to think that this country has not done enough to address historical racial injustice, black and white Britons are also far apart on the visual symbols such as public statues of men with ties to slavery, so in this personal primer, a frequent contributor hirsch author of British has more about this time of moral reckoning. There's a real tendency in Britain to believe that racism and especially anti black racism. The originates from a history of slavery and colonialism. Is American program? We often sit complacency and talk about how terrible things are in America. The irony is this was a form of racism and ideology that was invented here in Britain and black people. We have been living at ground. Zero this ideology, any recognition of the ways in which shaped I lived experience. Really fascinating how scratchy spontaneously became centers for protest during this movement, because no one was really asking for them to be taken down a specific response to the motor of George Roy. But for so many of us they represent all the says and raised parts of history. The reality is that we glorify people who personally and institutionally complicit, even enthusiastic about the mud, the genocide, the patient of land, and the enslavement of black people, many of the figures that we have on statues were involved in military expeditions. People like Admiral Nelson remembered for two seats in the French incredibly important war for the British, but was not remember to say he personally supported the slave trade. He used his political privilege to advocate against the abolition of the slave trade. Winston Churchill rightly remembered for his role in enabling the allies when the second world, war but it's not mutually exclusive to acknowledge that and remember that he also was obsessed with racist ideas about Africans about Indians so much so that even his conservative Eton educated cabinet colleagues were concerned that his racism was clouding his judgment. Until we can look at these statues in an honest way and have a conversation which has not been happening I. Don't think it's acceptable to leave them in these positions where they glorified in public spaces, an all the messages that sends to British people about what we signed for the nation. Right, people in the UK are living the everyday legacy of the system of racism. That was crates, many black people in Britain. All the descendants immigrants who specifically brought to this country to do low wage labor live in substandard housing. The children's receive inferior education, and we still see the results of that. Black children are so much more at light speed from school. Black people are more likely to live in inadequate housing. Impoverished areas. Black people are more likely to work on unfair labor terms. This is a moment where it's time to really hone in on the black experience and to stop tiptoeing around it, as society has always done For Hirsch on the struggle that needs to continue and that is it for now you can always catch us online on podcast and across social media. Thank you for watching and goodbye from London.

president America attorney United States US attorney IMF Jeffrey Berman Martin Luther King Washington Brown Reverend Baba trump Department of Justice government professor General Bar Michael Flynn Kentucky Corona
Federal Prosecutor Fired, Trumps Tulsa Turnout & Streaming IMAX Docs- Monday, June 22nd, 2020

the NewsWorthy

10:40 min | 4 months ago

Federal Prosecutor Fired, Trumps Tulsa Turnout & Streaming IMAX Docs- Monday, June 22nd, 2020

"Today is Monday June twenty second. We're talking about the latest data showing where cove in nineteen cases are spiking by the trump administration is facing backlash for a recent firing, and we'll recap the president's Tulsa rally over the weekend including surprise in the stands plus I, Max and Hulu are teaming up why there's a pocket change shortage, and how a Rockstar from the nineties broke a record thirty years later. Welcome welcome to the newsworthy all the day's news in less than ten minutes fast. They're fun and on the go. I'm Erica Mandy. Thanks so much for being here. You're ready. Let's do this. We start today with new numbers about the new corona virus, and it seems the outbreak is not showing any signs of slowing down at least in some areas on Saturday the US reported the highest number of new cases since May first, and just like last week, infections are surging fastest in the south and west, and so are the very serious cases Arizona Texas and North Carolina have hit record hospitalizations in the last few days. Other hotspots are Florida California Missouri South Carolina and Oklahoma. Oklahoma as of early this morning, the US case Total is nearly two point three million, and nearly one hundred and twenty thousand Americans have died from the disease, and now an infectious disease expert from the University of Minnesota, told NBC News Cove in Nineteen probably won't ease much over the summer or in the fall since right now, a lot of people are still susceptible without the antibodies to fight the virus, so he and other experts are reminding people to take precautions such as handwashing. And social distancing. We have an update about the case surrounding Taylor. She's the black woman killed by a white officer in her own home on March thirteenth. Her case has since become part of this ongoing national debate about police, brutality and many protesters are still calling for justice for Briana. Will Now Louisville Kentucky police say they're working to fire? One of the officers who fired their guns? Guns Officer Brett Hankinson and two other officers involved have been under investigation. Since the shooting, they were executing a so-called knock search warrant. They weren't in uniform and they were looking for drugs while they didn't find drugs, but they did find Taylor's boyfriend there who now says he thought the officers were intruder, so he shot at them striking officer in the leg, then officer. Fired several shots into the apartment through patio door and window. Brianna Taylor was shot at least eight times and died. The police chief now says the officer didn't seem to care where he was shooting, and some of the bullets even made it into the apartment next door, so Louisville's mayor announced officer. Hankinson will be fired that said the officer and his lawyer will get a chance to formally respond I so far, neither they nor the police union have commented publicly about this, and no one has been charged with a crime at least not yet now. The FBI is on the case. President trump is facing new controversy over his decision to fire a top federal prosecutor. We're talking about Jeffrey Berman. He was US attorney in Manhattan who led the prosecution in several high profile, corruption and Wall Street crimes in fact. Berman was the one to put trump's former personal lawyer. Michael Cohen in prison and most recently Berman was investigating president. Trump's current personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani so critics believe it's evidence. The trump administration is removing people just for being disloyal to trump and they worry it could hurt the independence. Independence Federal prosecutors for now. The trump administration is not saying why. This prosecutor was fired, but we do know Berman wasn't ready to leave when attorney. General William Bar announced, Berman had resigned, and would be replaced with the SEC chairman Jay Clayton. Bourbon refused saying the trump administration would have to fire him instead, so president trump did on Saturday. Though by then they decided the prosecutor would be replaced by his own chief deputy for now alternately, the Senate will have to confirm a permanent replacement to stay to. The president's return to the campaign trail over the weekend did not go quite as expected at least when it comes to the in person, crowd toes fire Marshall told NBC News About Six Thousand Two hundred people attended the rally. That's less than half the arenas one thousand nine thousand capacity, and much less than the trump campaign had predicted just last week. Remember it, president trump and his campaign manager said nearly a million people signed up for tickets and expected around one hundred thousand to actually show well now team trump blames news organizations for the low turnout. One campaign spokesperson said the media had been bombarding Americans with dire warnings about attending the event, due to cove nineteen or expected protesters and rioters. Local health officials have also been putting out warnings about the virus spreading, and there's another possible reason to tick tock users and Cape Fans, apparently videos with millions of us were encouraging people to complete the free online registration for the rally, and then just not show up in the hopes of leaving more empty seats that the trump campaign. Push back on that saying they didn't actually. Actually have an impact either way. President trump took the stage in Tulsa and gave about a one and a half hour speech. Most people in the crowd were not wearing masks, but cove nineteen did come up. Trump said his administration has been doing a phenomenal job handling it. Trump also said he told his team to slow down testing, because more testing leads to higher case counts. Counts leader a top White House adviser told CNN trump's comment was just tongue in cheek, but critics say they don't think it was really a joke, and even if it was, that's nothing to joke about, it is also worth noting top public health officials have said the surge in some states cannot be explained through testing and the testing isn't important method to know how big the. The problem is and to slow the spread of the virus. Also at the rally, the president highlighted the good economy at least before the pandemic bash the NFL's decision to let players protest again and criticized efforts to bring down confederate statues up next. Another campaign event is happening tomorrow at a students for trump gathering Phoenix Arizona, and then he's off to Wisconsin later this week. Major Cruise Lines Carnival, and Royal Caribbean won't be sailing out of US sports. Until at least September fifteenth, they had wanted to resume operations in August and the government's no sale order technically expires at the end of July for now, but industry leaders say they'll go ahead and hold off since they're so worried about the virus spreading the verge reports. They also feel the US is. Is Not containing it as well as other countries. This is obviously expected to take a big financial toll on the industry. At least one major cruise line Norwegian has hinted that bankruptcy could be in their future, and by the time ships do start sailing out of the US in mid September. If they do cruise, lines will have effectively been out of commission for six months. All right we have much more news ahead, but I to our sponsor this week skill share this online learning community is offering our listeners two months a free premium membership, so a great time to explore new skills, deepen existing passions and get lost in creativity, all with classes from skill share, the classes are designed for real life, and all the circumstances that come with it. I recently bookmarked class, unlocking your potential five exercises to build creative confidence and I've also you skill share for a refresher on business leadership. But find what's right for you. There are all kinds of classes including drawing writing journaling, which can help you manage stress and break up your daily routine, so explore your creativity skill, share, dot com slash newsworthy and remember when you go to school share dot com slash news worthy. You can get two free months of premium membership against skill, share dot com slash newsworthy to claim your two free months of premium membership now back to the news. For the first time ever and because of the pandemic, the Belmont stakes was the first leg of the triple crown of horse racing and the Horse, the law one it. The horse is three years old, and was raised in upstate New York and this year's big race was a lot different. The was shorter than usual to account for the unusual training schedules. Fans were not in the stands and masks were mandated for everyone except for the horses. Even the jockeys were mass next up both the Kentucky Derby. Derby and preakness stakes will happen this fall also in sports more controversy surrounding NASCAR's new ban on the confederate flag, dozens of fans brought their own flags to a race over the weekend, and not only that NASCAR's only black top tier driver Bubba Wallace, who spoke out against the confederate flag has been receiving threats. One of the worst came over the weekend. A noose was found hanging in Wallace's garage stall Nascar vowed to do everything possible to find the person responsible and quote eliminate them from the sports. The neighborhood, APP next door has pulled its forward to police. Feature the service. Let people send safety post and urging alerts to law enforcement officers, but critics worried it could fuel racial bias by an easy to report people of Color as being quote suspicious, so is doing away with it. Users can still send direct messages to police through the APP if they want to. But in gadget reports, only a small percentage of police are actually engaging with the APP anyway. I Max Nature and science documentaries are coming to Hulu sixteen of the docks will be released on Hulu this summer, including a beautiful plant, Superhero, dogs and pandas, the films are pretty immersive since they're actually designed for massive screens that are seventy two feet by fifty three feet, but both I- Hulu exact say they hope this will help. People cope with cabin fever and allow them to virtually explore the earth in a new way. Some of the films are streaming now while others will be released in the coming weeks and months. Ago Star that once belonged? Nirvana Frontman Kurt cobain was sold for more than six million dollars that makes it the most expensive guitar ever sold at an auction. Cobaine used the Acoustic Guitar to perform on MTV unplugged back in Nineteen ninety-three just months before he died, rolling stone reports, the new owner is the founder of microphones. He says he plans to take the guitar on a worldwide tour, and all the proceeds will support the performing are. And that's it for the main ten minutes of news today, but now it's time for money Monday where we talk about one interesting money, related news story and today we're talking about a shortage of pocket change things around the country are running low on quarters, dimes, nickels, and even pennies, apparently coins sat piled up in cash, drawers and pockets during the stay at home, orders and on top of. Of that the US mint produced fewer coins than normal this spring to protect employees from covid nineteen, and if the shortage keeps up, it could eventually impact businesses that might not be able to give people exact change anymore. Still the supply of coins is expected to bounce back as the economy reopens, but just in case, the Federal Reserve says it's prepared to work with meant to increase supply. All Right? Thank you for listening today and every day as always you can read more about any of the new stories mentioned just to newsworthy dot com slash show notes or look in the episode notes of your podcast. APP, we'll be back with more news tomorrow until then have a great day.

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2369 - 2020 DOJ Corruption & Progressive Victories? w/ Elie Mystal & Aaron Kleinman

The Majority Report with Sam Seder

1:26:07 hr | 4 months ago

2369 - 2020 DOJ Corruption & Progressive Victories? w/ Elie Mystal & Aaron Kleinman

"You are listening to a free version of majority. Report Portland Sam Cedar. To support the show and get another fifty minutes daily program. Good Jordi Dot S.. M., please. GYRODYNES! It is Wednesday. June twenty, fourth, two, thousand twenty. My Name is Sam Cedar. That's the five time award. Winning majority report. Your Broadcasting Live steps and steps and steps from the industrially ravage. Go honest canal in the heartland of America. Downtown Brooklyn USA. On the program today. House hearing on DOJ corruption. And what looks like a strong primary night for progressives? Elliott style from the nation and Arran climbing. Raum. while. He's bobby big. Twitter. Meanwhile tells Congress. That the first wave, it's still building. And, just about everything out of the White House is nonsense. Seven states break new hospitalization records. And bricks quietly urges government governors. To increase testing despite? The federal pullback. Uteri borders. But not to US plague revealed America's. Trump throws another corona. In Zona and Biden surges in polls. Basically because it's him or trump and the fall. House downs unveil a garbage health care proposal. In Chris. COONS says he may back. The filibuster is say it's because he's facing a primary and just. Let's vote them out. All this and more. On today's program. Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the show. Aren't of course from future now. Future now is that the name of the the organization? Get your. Future now fund. I always I can't. I don't know why I can't I can't remember that it's not that complicated. But the future now fund. He will give us you know as much of an update as you can get at this point, new era when it comes to elections, folks. And the bottom line is Where we're just not going to get. We're just not going to get. Results quickly. All the absentee ballots are in and. They're gonNA. COUNT THEM WE'RE NOT GONNA. Know for a week. But we do have some some indication of of WHO. Who may have one last night and we will talk about that in just a moment. Just a couple of quick notes from a listeners Hey. Our Crew Melissa the show and also an H. Back Design Engineer. Guys are talking about Air Ionization today in the context of the upcoming rally in Arizona. This was yesterday. this technology is not that new, but does work I do have to say that it doesn't. It does not eliminate ninety nine point nine percent of Cova Germs in ten minutes though. Thirty. It can eliminate ninety nine point four percent under perfect conditions. So. I know that isn't super helpful. If you stand next to a sick person, but the technology does work I i. mean I I wonder what it constitutes perfect conditions. Suspect that in that Mega Church you did not have perfect conditions. Designed just as well juice will help you get to those perfect conditions, and then you let the ionization tick the respite. What Jesus, probably working the ionization Machine is well I would imagine I mean that would be sort of. That would be a mistake to leave it to somebody else. I wouldn't leave it to. We can do leave it to Judas no way. Very little religious taste you. I got another note from a longtime listener I. Don't know if folks remember this, but. When my son saw was born it was in a maternity room. Maternity. Ward Room right next door. unbeknownst to me to the grandson of a longtime listener of this program, Susan, who has been very supportive over the years, has been very to my children her husband of over fifty years died. About a month ago or so and not of covid. and so I just I wanted to send this out for David And hope that Susan and her family are doing well We've been tracking. Her grandson and my son have You're literally born almost I. Think on them at maybe a day. Apart I think it was so. My regards the whole family in condolences. Okay would that said just a reminder to all of you We will We are every day. If you want to support the program, you can do so at joining the majority report DOT COM We got a lot more stuff to talk about but last night. Let's move onto what a happened in terms of the elections last night. There were primaries in new. York state and one in Virginia. And And of course, there were also statewide elections that we're gonNA talk to We're GONNA talk to to iron climbing about that later but the big win last night. And it's not like I say. None of this is locked in, but he's He's up by some thirty thousand votes. We don't know what the told or I should say. Sixty one percent except by. Thirty percent I. Have the numbers here somewhere, but the the you know. We still have a ton of absentee ballots to To look at, but it looks very good that Jamal Bowman. Unseeded Elliott Angle. This is a raise that has drawn probably the most amount of tension of all the primary races. There's a lot of aspects about this. We'll talk about with Aaron and maybe we'll also talk with an ellie as well because you have. You have just about everything happening here with this race. A OC endorsed. Progressive endorsed a down the line. You. You had multiple candidates in this race. Multiple Progressives in this race. who were all arguably viable? And Jamal Bowman got the the endorsements of a lot of these sort of outside progressive groups early. And ultimately the other candidates basically said we need take out angle I'm step aside, and that dynamic is. is really important. I think. 'cause it indicates that there is a there is a movement here, not just. A an array of different candidates. Here is Jim Boehm last night. Giving what is everything but a victory speech I guess At the end of the night. The A. P. Back said you know Bowman's way ahead. Angle would have to get something like to one votes out of the absentee ballots to to pull it out, which I think is unlikely, but here's Jamal Bowman last night new. York's Sixteenth district. Over the is not a result of children and families don't work hard. Our children and families work as hard as anyone else. Poverty is by political design. And is rooted in a system that has been fractured and corrupt and Ryan from its core from the inception of America, especially over the last several decades, so poverty and the impact of poverty on our children, and dealing with issues of institutional racism and sexism and classism, and send a phobia and everything that keeps the majority of us. Oh press is what we designed this campaign to fight against so tonight as we celebrate, we know just celebrate me as an individual. We celebrate this movement. A movement designed to push back against A. That's literally killing us is killing black and Brown bodies disproportionately, but this killing all of us is killing, US mentally psychologically, and spiritually is forcing us to live in the country in a world with so many people are hopeless and have lost faith, not just in a political system, but in each other, but our movement is designed to restore that faith to restore that hope. To bring back the belief in what is possible. To root our values in everything we do values of humanity, equality and justice values that will center US fighting for those who are disenfranchised for children with special needs for our seniors for women for people of color to rebuild an infrastructure as we go forward and a democracy that works for everyone. Great stuff from Bowman there and I think you know you go back to the conversation. We had with a on Friday of last week. The importance of Blue districts like this one having true progressives. It's going to be a Lotta pooh-poohing. This is only new. York, this. Oh, you only doing this in New York and California well, this is where it starts. This is. This is, and it's not just that we've picked up. Swimming these vote tallies hold that we've picked up one more progressive vote, which is true. But these feed off each other. He's not just a vote. He is a strengthening of a coalition. And I, and you know. is every reason to believe? This is a guy who's going to be in office for some time. You know there was. There was talk a year or two ago. You know the squad is in trouble, maybe not a year to. Six to eight months ago, the squads in trouble they're all facing primaries, and at that hasn't worked out in the way that I think those people thought and so this is a big win. A big win. And it's GonNa send reverberations. You're already seeing it across the board. We're GONNA. Talk about Chris coons and his. Sort of almost non sequitur. Statement the yesterday. This is all related watched Chuck Schumer. Chuck. Schumer watched Chuck Schumer now. I mean I just countdown Dow many statements. He's GonNa. Come out where he's talking about being progressive. I don't know these do anything, but they're going to be afraid and they should be afraid. If you want to go back I think I interviewed Jamal Bowman on ring of fire. May have been eight or nine months ago. You can We're GONNA put a link in the podcast description and the in the The youtube description of linked to Jamal, Bowman's interview also did one with Mondale Jones. Who won in New York seventeenth I think it is and Charles Booker, who hopefully hopefully will be able to make up some ground on amy? McGrath, as they count the absentee ballots we shall see at. Maybe it's GonNa. Be a tough road, but we'll see All Right? We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we'll be talking to Elliott MS, Stahl. He is the nation's justice correspondent. We'll be right back after this. Sam Cedar on the majority report on the phone. It is a pleasure to welcome back to the program Alli missed owl. He is the nation's justice. Correspondent covers the courts covers the criminal justice, system and politics. And Elliott apparently also You very well may have a new congressman in twenty, twenty one. Looks like I have a new congressman I live in what should be soon? Jamal Bowman's district It's been pretty exciting up here. Look, people are saying that it's an upset and get from a national perspective you know Elliott ingles chairman of the committee man. That man was going down long before the hot mic he he, he's not, he's not around. You know. I lived up here five years now. I never I never met that right? It's not like I. I'm Shrinking Violet, right? Angle there. There are two things in play here. Um and I think this is a lesson or all kind of old guard conservative Democrats around the nation one. You have to be in your district and you have to. If you have a allegedly safe democratic district you have to. The people of Color in your district 'cause we are your face right. If you're not winning the people of Color in your district, you're going to have problems old school. Democrats and the fact that you know angle has has not been around people of Color in this in my town I think really showed up right so that's number one number two like the and you. You hit on this in in your opening and I. Think it's so important like yes, you running aggressively progressive candidates works in safe. Blue districts more so than it works in Purple districts. which is as it should be and a big part of what the Democrats have been trying to do, and what the Justice Democrats, or if you want to call them are the squad or whatever what they've been trying to remind people of is that you need to elect actual liberals where you can't write. Of course they're going to be. You know they're going to be district in. You know the in upstate New York for instance here or you know the middle of the country, and and and some other states where you can't elect an ASC. Presley origin moment. Of course, that's true, but in districts where you can you better start electing actual liberal, actual heart or progressive need to win in these districts where they for them to win, so I think goes to. Those are the two trends dad to that. I don't think it's necessarily the case. that. I mean it's certainly easier. obviously you to run someone who is a progressive in a in a deep blue district. I don't know that it's necessarily the case that it's harder to run in a purple one, except for the fact that. You need more money. Right because in the for for Bowman. The key is how much money is he going to raise for the primary, and that's not as much as you need for the general if if you you it's. The Democratic primary is the only race accounts, so you know because the vote tally that you need to get is necessarily lower than it would be in a general election, and so he's. He's GonNa. Go in. He may have a content, but it's a it's a democratic district, so just a dollar amount that the left has to raise in these races dollar for dollar. This is where your value goes where you have more impact in these primaries, and that's where you start, and then you have then you build upon that, but And I think a again. You're this up, but it's A. It's a point worth re-emphasizing. It's progressive, not eating themselves right? It's it's you lessen the amount of money. It takes to defeat a long term and come at like Eliot Angle. When we all the progressives of sitting room. figure out what's going to be and the rest of them? Drop out people. It requires some people to swallow some of their ego and yet behind the progressive. Who can win You'd like to see that kind of nationally sometimes. You know you it. It is important that progressives have one champion to take on the one establishment person that makes it easier and less expensive for the progressive to to mount a serious challenge against an establishment them and that's what happened. Here on the here on the N. Y.. And I should also say that. I think this is going to be. In some respects trickier to do in the future in other words. How out of touch do you have to be? If you're Elliott Angle to sort of because he's gotta be looking over at what happened to Crowley right with AFC for the past two years ago and like Nah. That's not going to happen to me. Like Afghanistan for you just sort of pretend that you're in the district during this covid thing and not be, you've got gotta feel like you can get away with anything and in particular. It's you know it's one thing for Crowley to get knocked off. He was feeling overconfident and and and it. Comes out of you. Know in in many respects comes out of nowhere, but Eliot Engel had two years to sort of prepare for the potential that he could get off, and apparently he did not so a good rains in Iowa. So one last thing that I think is also interesting. And and I I had meant to bring this up the the other day in this when I was to when we had gone. Here's a name that you never hear anymore, and that is David Brat. And David Brat was the guy who knocked off Eric Cantor. who was the majority leader and David Brat served for two terms then just gone and this. He was sort of the the the tea party. You know the ascension of Tea Party now essentially the whole. Party became like the tea party, but it's. It's interesting to me because that is not going to happen. You know in New, York Sixteenth, or in the fourteenth, or in the seventeenth that that that is we're not gonNA fall that same trajectory I think that fascinating. I mean it's it's. It's amazing to me that that they were groups spending all of this money to try knock off, ao see in a Democratic Party primary with somebody who Republican two seconds ago like that that that I mean there there are some political consultants out there just taking people's money. Robin with that, right? Yes. But what was their option? There were never going to get to her laughed, and they just had to go with what they're. They're basically the graft is with. Is You know this this corpus? And and frankly. Couldn't be a better a better model for the rest of you know. And I think I think chuck. Schumer may be learning a lesson about amy. McGrath is well I. Don I doubt he will I mean? He has other motivations. It's it seems to me. To run someone like that, but let's get onto something. That's you know even more in your wheelhouse We had to rulings by the Supreme Court over the past week. One was a title seven ruling essentially saying that you cannot be discriminated a when it comes to employment, because you're gay and the word sex is is in title seven of the Civil Rights Act the textualist Neal Gorsuch read it as you know being a but for in terms of the person sacks, and you know relative to who they're They're dating or marrying or whatnot and so Do you have when we've covered this? But I'm curious if you have any angle on this, because the one thing that seems that worries, people coming out of this is that gorsuch is laying the groundwork to basically with the other conservatives to destroy the Chevron Doctrine, which essentially allows agencies to take a general instruction from Congress and use their expertise in executing it would do you have any any take on that or we just move onto the next one. in the words of Scarlett O'Hara. I will think about that tomorrow. This was a huge win. Win for the LGBTQ community It is easily and I. Don't think there's any question there. It is easily the biggest win for transgender rights in American legal history. This is the biggest Supreme Court Win Legal Win for the transgender community ever. and it's a hugely important victory for the gay and lesbian community. Now I am of the opinion that they have always been included in. The Civil Rights Act. That's the that's the one that protects people from from sexual discrimination I think they've always been included in that act, but Republicans have spent a decade or two trying to take that protection away from them and for Neal. Gorsuch of all people to be the one to stop it It's not just it's not just. The victory is huge because gorsuch and Roberts were on board. Board, it feels like this victories durable right? It feels like the culture war that the right keeps trying to have about gay rights game marriage. It's like stopped trying to make that happen conservative day. Rights feels like they they are. They are so much more durable today and they felt a month ago. So that's the lead. That's what I'm holding close to my heart. That's what I'm happy about. You're absolutely right about show. Like. These are conservative. Ain't nothing come for free. They've got plans upon their plan. They're playing got plans. and yes. Gorsuch Gorsuch ideolog. His particular brand of of ideology led him to what I believe is the right decision in the title seven case, but it will down. The road also lead him to a terrible place where he where he gets rid of Chevron depres now for your listeners who that sounds. Sounds like a very several different very jargon term, so let me break that down. Basically Congress makes the law, and then what usually happens is that the executive agencies figure out how to implement that wall right so the Congress we should have clean air, but then the EPA actually figured out well. What clean air means and how you go about making the air clean? Clean for instance, right, this happens all over the place. Right Chevron deference. The legal term simply means that judges are suppose to defer to the determination of these executive agencies like the EPA as opposed to their own judgment, right. They have to act like the. EPA is speaking for Congress when Judges Review, those laws, gorsuch and his band of crazy ideologues. Ideologues, want to throw that out they they want to basically treat the executive agencies like they have nearly no authority or are accorded no presumption of doing the right thing, so they can just kind of overturn. These decisions these rulings whenever they want the reason why I'm using the EPA as well as the analogy. Here is not idly. This is about the. This is about environmental protection. This is this is a longstanding decades long again. Struggle by conservatives to get out from under environmental protection regulations and the way to do that is to say that thinking that organ that entities like the EPA do not deserve difference, so there's a lot comment here. I mean there's a lot behind here, but that's a problem for tomorrow and and and one of the upsides for tomorrow. Is that things like tight late when it comes to housing? And and according to Lito. Maybe a hundred other statutes that have been passed will provide the protections that this ruling. a provides in the course of of employment to lgbtq folks across the board across those hundred statutes across housing. Right I mean theoretically. We're just waiting for cases to come up and. The Gore six ruling. You know his His his his. His writing will be the will will will hold right and a bunch of those cases. The funny thing about the Senate and by the way of lead. Lita goes off the deep end. Is One of the most can have. Crazy mean-spirited slightly unhinged the sense that you will ever read The the his. Opinion was thirty three pages. Four pages. Buying something like one hundred seventy two pages appendices. Proof is points that having a penis, matters or something. It's a he. He was ridiculous, but the fun thing about this unhinge crazy is that he paints a picture of a world. Where like if we do this game, people will be treated fairly in housing reit. Gay People will be treated fairly at the store and everybody's like yeah. That's what that's going to happen now. so I think we know is right. I think that this horrible nightmare is world than Alito. Where gay and transgender people are treated like equal citizens actually probably will happen. I mean I can't wait for A. Attorneys of a plaintiff attorneys saying as even Alito said in his dissent. It should hold in this case, right? For a little inside baseball. The same thing happened to squeeze Pity from a from a gay rights case early on, and he was like we keep on this. Train, some big gay people be allowed to be married and turns out. It was exactly right. Yeah. Sometimes conservative nightmares might dreams, and that's that's that is. What does the Senate was for me? he absolutely right that most likely this decision will have a knock on effect in a lot of areas of gay rights there so it's it's. It's not the fight is not over. I think the analogy us in the nation was that we've basically survive the battle of Britain. The invasion of Normandy is still a long way off one of the things we're. We're gorsuch and Roberts reserved some ability to make poor decisions in the future is that they really didn't answer any kind of first? Amendment issues and one of the things that Robertson Gorsuch the Conservatives. Daryl I'm used to tamp down. Gay Rights is by Elevating People's First Amendment religious concerns over the secular concerns up treating gay people. Barely we had case, and there's a case like that. That is actually we're we're. We're waiting for the verdict essentially. I think we're waiting for for decide if they're going to take it out. you know they got it goes back a masterpiece masterpiece cake shop, no one the last a Kennedy decisions with a punt on this issue of whether or not a religious conservative has to vacate for for a gay marriage. Right these kinds of issues. We're like individual people will be allowed to discriminate against gay people if they say that they are doing it for God. the those decisions will still happen and that kind of discrimination has not been attempt out or or stopped or starched in any way by this bostock decision So they're still. There's still stuff defiance fight about but again overall I. Just I don't want leave. This. WAS THAT DECISION? It shocked me. That decision is one of the most important look I. It's not my place to say. but I I would say from where I sit I. Think the decision is every bit as if not more important than the gay marriage decision, because whether or not you can be gay or Trans at work whether or not you have the right to just to go to your job and do your job while being who you are i. think is so fundamental to what discrimination and anti discrimination means in this country to to to. Formalize and normalize that protection for the LGBTQ TQ. Community I think it's super important. And we also had the the the the the ruling on Daca, which was last. It was less ruling on Daca Then it was on really a an assessment of how well the trump administration did in its attempt to end it and but the the long and short of it is Daca continues, and will probably be subject to the outcome of this election. Yeah I you know I read about this, too, and you know it's I would like to say that. This was a great decision for immigration rights, but no, it's not has nothing to do. Actually with the dreamers Roberts's upholding Daca is really all about how dumb Donald Trump is and I don't think mega people understand that if they had elected merely anybody else nearly any other Republican, they would be done with Dhaka. Get their way on so many issues donald trump has been historically unsuccessful at court, and it's not because. Donald Trump. It's because his legal work product is dumb, shoddy and ridiculous right? He doesn't make good legal arguments. He doesn't do things in the in the proper way It is not a controversial position, and I say this as a fan of Dhaka as an ally of dreamers it is not a controversial proposition to say that the next president can overturn and executive order by the previous president. That's just that's just. Presidential Authority you might not like it, but like that that trump has the authority to do. This is not controversial. WHAT THE ISSUE IS! Is that have to have a reason? The government has to give you a reason for doing what it does. Trump's a valid legal reason, right? It can't be off. The Wall can't be untrue, and it can't be an illegal reason. Trump saying I hate Mexicans because they're criminals and rapists. Is Not about legal reasons. I know Republicans wanted to be, but it's just not and his inability to come up with anything valid and truthful for why he wants to end this program other than his like xenophobia and bigotry is just mind blowing, and it blows Robertson's mine, and that's why Robertson go along with it right like that's why Robertson Clinton he you know. He's begging basically trump indecision. Give me a real reason. I will let you end this program as you can and why. so it's not, it's not. It's not stable. This is just said that the gay rights decision is durable. This decision is not durable if trump wins in November, he will. He will come up with a reason. That's basically what happened with the Muslim Ban Robert Gibbs trump three. Right. So if someone's again, he's GonNa. Come back, and he will find is valid legal reason for ending this program that he clearly has the authority to end so this decision is not durable dreamers or not safe. We have to win in November to make them safe but. Once again trump's trump's own incompetence. This is what I wrote. Some incompetence defeated trump's bigotry yet again. Stupid and evil, and we're better off when stupid wins in other words so okay all right, so let's I wanNA turn to As we speak I believe there were hearing testimony in the judiciary. Committee from two DOJ. Essentially whistle blowers They've been I. Don't think they're officially whistleblowers, but that's what they've been sort of characterized and we have. Basically two, it seems to me. Sets of issues one is. We have one representative from the DOJ who is talking about political interference in the antitrust division particularly how it deals with marijuana companies and or producers? And, even car companies because California was not going along with the lowering of cafe standards, but before we get to that one we have We have a a couple of things that are happening one is there's a D. O. J.. Somebody was on the team. WHO's talking about pressure to get stone delight in his sentence. He apparently has just filed for a continuance, so they probably won't go to court. Hear about this until September e- seems to be waiting for a pardon. an appeals court today unrelated to the hearing. just ordered the judge who is weighing in on Michael Flynn's the turnaround by the DOJ on Michael. Michael Flynn Appeals Court at least a three panel of that court saying that Flynn needs to be at needs to his case dismissed, and we also had over the weekend a really botched attempt at a Friday night, massacre of the head of the southern district of New York who is also investigating all of these trump essentially satellites. You know a lot of people in his orbit essential, and maybe donald trump in terms of Deutsche Bank, so let's take the criminal stuff I because it seems like. There's equality of this week. That reminds me of that scene in the Godfather when they're at the baptism, and you have these all these ways of all these loose ends being tied up there like it feels like that's what's going on with Flynn with stone and with all the investigations southern district of New York. They want all this. We wrapped up so that there's no work to be done in the event that Donald. Trump loses in November. What's your take on that? My is that bill bar should be fired. Bill Bar is easily the worst attorney general in the history of the United. States of America he has shown himself to be the most corrupt attorney general and the history nightsticks America twice can remember. He was returned general who covered up for Iran Contra as well He needs to be impeached and removed from office for corruption and a dereliction of duty. Promise is that I've been saying that pretty much since he was not made right like I. I'm almost the wrong guy to talk to you about bar. Because from the moment, he showed up on the scene. Behind the Iran Contra stuff when he was ag for h w Bush and his cover letter to get the job, which was basically I will stop the motor investigation which I still believe he did. it prematurely It was obvious that this man was not fit to be attorney general but people did not yelling screaming about him then when he stopped the molar investigation, people did not move to impeach him then as they should. When he was revealed to be one of the chief henchman of the Ukraine blackmail plot. People did not move to impeach him then. Like and now that all of this information was coming out about how he's literally putting political pressure to get trump's cronies, lighter, criminal sentences, or or avoid the arm of justice at all now we've got Jerry Nadler's thing. It's not worth impeaching him now because we're to close to the election well, you're damn right, Jerry. It's not worth impeaching him now. You should have a year and a half ago. And so I'm I'm the wrong guy to talk to you about this. This guy has been a corrupt malfeasance. From the moment. He stepped on the screen on the scene and I have no idea why he's why he's getting away with it I just. Well that Elliot Kerr will not accept your accused on the basis of historical memory I am sorry. I will still require you to to address. If not bars nefarious nece in this because I couldn't agree with you more, they should have the the those impeachment. Hearings should have included a bill bar without a doubt. But. Let me let me just. Let's go through a appeals court. There's three of them. and I. At least one I think was appointed by trump, maybe maybe maybe two of those three We'll go to the full we'll go to. The on Bach will go to the full court. You know to get. Can they appeal to the full court as opposed to the three judge panel? Got Sam as soon as I. Get off the phone with you. I'm going to be writing My Flint piece about Naomi Route she is the trump appointee clarence Thomas acolyte who was nominated. You feel. Wait for Kavanagh's old seat on the DC circuit She is four, my or my money, the worst of the worst of the trump judges right. She is She is a radical She is intellectually honest Her opinions are written as if she is writing an advocacy law review not as opposed to the law of the land she's. Disingenuous! She's a bad person she is the one who authored the majority opinion in the Flynn case, finding winds. Case had to be dismissed servicing an entirely crazy theory of executive power that she could not find any actual cases to support. She had to find again. Other law review articles to support which is you know not really how supposed to be done and the reason why she wrote it in this way just so your listeners understand what's happening here. Naomi row is openly auditioning for Ruth Bader GINSBURG. All right like all of these crazy opinions that she writes the CR-. The failed. The unwavering unswerving fealty the Donald Trump administration. All of this is because the hardcore that some conservatives want to nominate a woman named Amy Coney Baruch to replace RPG their own kind of crazy Christian theocrat person, but she's been playing very kind of normal. She thinks she's amy things. She's going to get the job She's been playing it very normal while she waits for her nomination, they only row was trying to come up off the pace, and so she's trying so she knows she has to make a show of it, so she auditioning to trump directly that if he is president when rb RPG passes away. If that's the thing that can happen and I hope it never. that she will be the person that he picks, and that's why her decisions have a particular flavor of trumpism and almost basically written for an audience of one She's the most dangerous person on the federal judiciary right now, and again. She's a person that. Hardcore progressive screamed about when she was nominated, but a lot of people a lot of people, the media just let it go and now as a Al Gore and Winston Churchill once that we not live in a time of consequences right and the consequence of putting a an out on the court is a decision like you said have today now will it be appeal? Yeah, yes, it will be appealed to the full circuit. I think it is likely that row will be overturned. I think it is likely that she will be overturned in part because her decision is so. Right I think there was A. if she had worried, she was worried about being overturn. She would have written that decision a lot closer to the best. She didn't care about being overturned because he doesn't care about the issue. She cares about her next job. so I. do think that there's a good chance of. DC Circuit will be will overturn it, but you know that's GonNa take. That's not going to happen for the election. That's going to take some time. Okay, so let me ask you this. What is there when we when we see what they attempted to do with Berman Right, and they failed at it, and and the difference between Berman resigning and being fired has to do with the the succession that follows essentially a statute that that tells how you fill positions in federal agencies. Essentially, that's my understanding, anyway, and So is there what what's the consequence of these and other words? Stone, may end up having to get a pardon. Flynn may end up having to get a pardon if these things aren't resolved, but he keeps flynn out of jail during that time. theoretically if this is you know I, if if the question of whether his cases should be dismissed or not goes through the election It seems to meet. What's your take? On the Burma thing I mean my my theory was just at this Donald Trump worrying about what happens if he loses because Burma's not gonNA bring any any indictments between now and the election right I mean the radically. They've learned their lesson about about doing this that this is more about trump wanting to just. Tie Up all the loose ends in the event that he loses. Berman. What you're looking at is not whether or not like. Flynn needs a pardon or stony the pardon. It's whether Vodka's going to get a pardon and jared. ruin has jurisdiction over trump's family. His. and all the corruption there. I think you're right. I, think, firing him now. When clearly he wasn't going to indict before the elections Baragan wasn't attempt to kind of get up. Get a get a loyalist in there. Who would basically delete the files right? Basically, shred the case it up in such a way that should trump lose the next head sdn Y, coney, go back in and kind of restart the investigation or bring the charges unnecessary to to hold trump in his family. Accountable I think you're absolutely right. That's that was the goal we'll work little. That has a lot to do with the next Democratic president and. You know I I've talked about this before, but like. The need for accountability for the trump administration. if Biden should win is paramount. We can do what Obama page. I can't agree with you more like I'm literally getting nauseous thinking about the prospect of of Joe, Biden saying turn to page, the only way to move forward is to not look back or whatever. You know I I if. I if the buck doesn't stop like if they can't if they can't exercise any accountability on Donald, trump in the event that Joe Biden wins. I. Just think the whole concept. We might as well just ejected from our society. If they don't hold trumper crumble than he truly was above the law the entire time. Then we truly do not live in a nation of laws, we live in a nation of rob. Little power like that's this is as simple as that and the next president or the next president or the next president will look at the trump administration as a guy. To commit crime, not as a cautionary tale on why you shouldn't commit crime while President so the stakes could not be higher You said you were not like I. if Joe. Biden shows up on January twenty second and gives me the Mark Maguire I'm not here to talk about beach. I'M GONNA. Flip a bit right, right? The only person who is going to be able to stop Joe Biden from doing that. We'll be people like the head of the ESPN. Y right because yesterday. Why doesn't have to listen to Joe Biden really? and so if you have prosecute if you install prosecutors starting with his ag becker that's going to be an insult, prosecutors up and down the system who are willing to go after trump. Then you can have world we're biding can be like well. Look. I'm just focused on the future and the prosecutors can be doing the work I think bar and trump understand that and this berman firing was an attempt to kind of get ahead of that train. Alley was GONNA. Let you go, but we got breaking news. Bill Bar claims he will testify on seven twenty eight. That is delight twenty eighth for the of you who don't know numerical. Version of months and days. Twenty eight before the House Judiciary Committee this was under either a subpoena or the threat of Subpoena You think he's going to show you. What do you think is GonNa? Do is just gonNA. I mean he's going to be a little bit obtuse. I imagine What what what does this signal to you? Well. Hey I believe it when I I mean I. Just I'm not I. Can't trust. These people anymore They've ignored so many subpoenas. They've tried to get out of somebody. By saying we're going to show up and then not saying anything I will believe. The bar testifies my see him in the chair, testifying number one number two. Assuming he does show up which I think again is a huge assumption like I. Think he will do I mean I've seen him on the sixty minute interviews, and and when you know on. On the Fox interviews. You won't up you skate she. Will you know play Legal Word Games He will He. He will do all the lawyer tricks to avoid saying anything of consequence at all. the the what I would be more interested in is is that we're GonNa keep doing these hearings between now and July twenty eighth. To start building a record against bar, that bar then has to answer for under oath in front of the Judiciary Committee like that would be, that would be some hope. Spring and hope Springs Eternal, alley missile We have a lot more hearing. rulings coming down in the coming week or weeks, and hope to have you back to to help us wade through. Those really appreciate your time today. Thank. You have a nice one you, too. All right folks, I don't even know if we're GONNA. Take a quick break. Maybe I'll just bring him on. He's been a hanging on the phone for For a couple minutes, he is the He is the director of research and for the future now fund and give smart. Harran climbing, welcome back to the program there. Yeah! I'm Sam. Thanks for having me well. Thank you for joining us. I'm sorry, We got little. You know little too deep in the weeds. Not no I should rephrase that. Oh, I got too excited about. Being a little bit for Allie. He's A. He's a real man. She knows what he's talking about. All right well there you go well done now. I was supposed to ask you. was supposed to get on the phone. Say you know. Have you say like how you doing? SAM and to set this up, but just watch asked me that. How you doing Sam. Losing row all right. That'll be the. Mandated to to drop that in right now. People understand in the coming days, but with that said Aaron so last night. Now I know we don't have any results and I basically. I blame you and your organization. Where where are the results that we're supposed to have? Oh actually our organization is trying to make post doesn't happen future I'm right now in the primaries that we have seen since the covert outbreak, states are dealing with and president. It's flood of absentee ballots and the election. Administrators really don't have systems in place to count all of that. you know there are ways though that you know in the next four months, state legislatures can prepare their states for this so that we don't have to have an election week. Waiting for results in which you know trump can try to. Claim victory, because other Republicans refused to go down from all the Democrats against. Don't WanNA. Die Cove, it so you know really you WanNa? Make sure that you know if you are a state legislator, you should be working on to that. There is male first balloting that there is the mail option, but also people want troppo option at Site so they don't have to worry about the male. If that is a concern, I'm really expanding early voting early votes are actually pretty easy to count New York item reported right away and finally just overall making sure that you've expanded registration with automatic motorized. right now. You're kind of seeing the cluj that is you know that was kind of the new. York and Kentucky Odor Administration and you know I. It's greatest thing where you get some primary results on primary I've ever probably had the. We don't eat for full results, and you know I I hope that there's progress made in the next month but I'm guessing that on the morning of November four. We might have an idea who on, but we're not GONNA have anything closely complete results in my understanding. Is that like literally? They've said we're not GONNA RID announced the results until next Tuesday. Which I think is like July. I don't know what what they that is right. I mean they're Gertie June thirtieth. Yeah, that's minimum. That's minimum right. Yeah I I think York law accurate you know, and and it's frustrating, because in California for example, which has the most rogue one of the most robust vote by mail systems in the country. They actually have rolling counting of bow. Aaron why I don't understand this? Why don't they count the ballots as they come in rather than just like keeping them all in a room I, just don't understand. What's the theory behind this? I get The you are talking to well. I I've been around for a while. I think people in charge administering election I think almost to a person can be well intentioned You know just the past forty years of the funding. state programs have left them under resourced and like in Pennsylvania I think the differences like Pittsburg. County allegheny county report right away about Philadelphia Krever forever is because Pittsburgh had just like the machines necessary to count ballots quickly. it. It stuff like that that I. It's kind of frustrating whereas like New York. Of course, you have arcane law that says you can't count ballots until a week after the election As? The week got the election because it's the period in which they can be received. And again, and so you know we're. We're seeing just kinda how not ready are Arthur. KKOB IT so again. They're the four months. I think states really need to kind of get on top of things and really do everything. They can't care for November. Because we're still expecting record turnout and yet member, even in spite of all the barriers to voting and in spite of the fact, that equal generally do. Do, not want to congregate indoors. which is happy were both voting traditionally takes place so again states you know again. We're here to help, but they need modernize as much as they can. In the next four months to get ready all right so and with all that said what what what can. What can you tell us about? What happened last night that we can walk away and have some assurance that it's in the ballpark. Yeah so I can speak specifically on New York because I in in Kentucky. They have like a ten percent of the vote is in. That's very little to go off I. Think Kentucky I. Mean I just kind of ignore that I actually report? He because, ain't them? Graph is up. mcgraff is up like what forty thousand votes but would so few votes in. It's impossible to know where they're from and etc. Etc. Right yeah I i. don't know what's going on there. I'm not in. Their house as. Not even GONNA pretend. You'RE NOT GONNA, PRETEND I'M NOT GONNA. Can what kind of the you know what that's not? You breaking like the first rule of punditry. Barbara I'm not going to be the New Yorker pretending he knows everything about in cody. Okay? I'm GONNA leave that guys. The trail bellies podcast. Hi I heard all right, fair, enough fair enough. Jamie's going to be very excited to hear. You say that but guy. so I think in New, York. I'm we do know a few things about. You know that we did get a higher rate of election day voting and we know that absentee ballot requests in New York and did to correspond with precincts where Cynthia Nixon did well in our primary challenge Cuomo so to me. The implication of that is that the outstanding primary ballots probably look similar the election day ballots, but might have a slight. Skew toward challenders or more liberal candidates. So with that said we actually can kind of tell what happened in a lot of races, and the results in those races or that last and liberal candidate tended to do well and in fact I. Think the past twenty minutes I group called decision desk, H, kid, which I really trust. said that there aren't enough absentee ballots last in the sixteenth district for angle to pull it out and today said that Bowman one. I'm getting I'm doing that I. don't care. Yeah. And I, mean that really is a great moment huge, and so, what? What does that all mean and it's not just. you saw. Jones win in the district the north. Is Dimond Air Jones is that. Are we locked in on that? It it, it's Kinda it's another. One is one of those things where there's something like ninety eight percent chance he wins, and it's like you wouldn't get on an airplane. That'd be percent chance of crashing, but you'd say that airport. That has you present. Crashing we'll probably land face. So you know, there's mother Jones Ruben Diaz looks like he's not GonNa win. I think absentee ballots in that almost certainly don't favor him, so that's a good outcome or I mean that's a good outcome for you. Know Liberal less obviously in. The, south, Bronx and then he's so, that'll probably Torres or think I mean you know I interviewed Lauren ash craft, but I think she came in like four third ride. Your maybe yeah, so that's an interesting that so you know, Carolyn Maloney been around for a while Sarraj Patel town her. I think there were a lot of people who kind of thought that he was adopting the aesthetics of the left without actually like really leaving it I. Think Ashcroft was kind of the person that actually know. She had a better track track record within the last but tell. Tell had leftover name, recognition and that racist, very close right now Bologna still leading, but again if there is that pro challenger skewed, that might be there. Patel might be Maloney but so that that's another race where an incumbent committee chair might actually through the primary in New York? That would be huge I. Feel I mean obviously angle I think is is is is massive and I think Montclair Jones pulling it out I'm very excited about. He was the first person in the race as far as I can remember when need allow before she even retired. And he, he managed poet out But if Maloney goes down, it seems to me. Then it becomes like. I gotta think that like you know Chuck Schumer is going to be basically grabbing assigning going out to every protest. Right like. That's the level of concern that the that that that that would create amongst establishment Democrats. I mean I I I'm very I. Don't know what the Heck is GonNa twenty two. Is GonNa? Look like but I think more broadly. you know what you're seeing is that you know the feeling on the streets? The you know kind of protests that have really centered on your not just retaliate, but really kind of a lack of representation on kind of a belief that the political system is not being responsive enough to the needs of the people, and you're seeing that reflected intellectual and again it's not just these congressional races on. You're seeing it in state legislative races where the left picked up two pretty big wins, and some open primaries, the state, Senate or leading, and then in the state assembly on again because there's so many vote ending and the races are kind of small enough. It's hard to tell, but at least two assembly dinner. Somebody GonNa crack and comments are. On track to lose, there might be as many as nine that could lose their primaries, and I think it shows that you know the idea that you know a safe seat you know winning election to legislative feet in a heavily democratic area was kind of a lifetime sinecure that doesn't exist anymore, and what people need our legislators that are responsive to their community and also to you know again as you're seeing with Jamal Bowen as he saw what they. They also want people who you know. Our communities from a representation standpoint as well I'm so. That is a movement that you are seeing within the. Democratic Party aren't is there. Is there at this point, or is there a chance of any race? In the Democratic primaries moving to where the seat moves to the right. In other words, we have you know all these challengers. Is there any instance where someone is in danger of being replaced or losing out to someone from there? any incumbent is endanger of of of losing out to someone to their right. That's an and that no right now and you saw some well funded challenges to prominence kind of liberal, left twenty eighteen primary winners on. You're not just AFC, but allow the Democrat, to unseat it. IDC. Members in two thousand eighteen in the New York state Senate. And, they seem to turn them all back. So you know to call it just an anti-incumbent mood I think allies the point where? It's not anti-incumbent It's anti kind of lack of response. and the people and the thing is those representatives. AFC of course spokeswoman while on Constituent Service you know in you, know she. She can walk and Chew Gum at the same time. You can go on on TV and talk about socialism, but also you know. Make sure that you know you know people in her district yet their forms process right, and then within the IDC former IDC US seats that were replaced by normal Democrats They have holidays policies that. That they've been able to pass really making the state, a more equitable place and making voting easier that they can go back to their constituents that they see as an incumbent I'm delivering for you in ways that can improve your life, and so that's really what people are looking for from their representative, and if you are state, legislator or a congressman, if you can't deliver, that are vulnerable to the primary challenge. And I just some for for non New Yorkers, IDC was a group of nominal nominally Democratic senators who would caucus with Republicans and it was an organization, essentially their own caucus that was midwifed by Andrew Cuomo as a way of basically being an obstacle to any progressive legislation so that he could say like I'd sign it, but it's not showing up. Because the Republicans were able to quash, but they were only able to quash it because of this basically rogue caucus that was literally. This was the thing that was sort of like, just amazing. The Republicans would just say like. We're going to give you extra money for your staff. We're going to give you money for your like it was it was. I mean I guess it's just you know. New York is so transactional that it's almost you know that bribes have been almost like written out of existence they don't exist and so and and that all changed when governor? Nixon took office and. And and change the court. So. Let me ask you this. AOC's win. In March, I think there was some poll that some story that's her internal polling showed that she was up like seventy percent, or whatever it was fifty percents or something like that. You know around what you want at. People think it's going to come in. obviously the same BC. Former Republican former trump living host who moved to the district a year ago. She raised a ton of money. There's a lot of money that came out But couple days ago, AFC puts out a negative ad against her. there's also this story that gets into the business insider about you know all the wall, street people who are supporting the CNBC person not terribly shocking, but that story looked like to me like it was You know. Maybe somebody said you should see who's giving her money in her You know open secrets dot, org or whatever it is She's building a war chest. Right like she's not. This is what she is building is not for the the fourteenth of New York congressional seat? Right I mean you don't need the money and the what she's amassing, she's she's building towards something. Well it could be I mean you know I think people speculate about twenty twenty two And a potential move to the Senate I. Don't know what she gained by. You know by trying a risky maneuver. She has a pretty safe perching congress. What she might really need that money for is of course twenty twenty two will be the first cycle with a new congressional masks in New York. The State is slated to lose one seat. If it only loses one seat, the seat better going, it will probably come from. But, if they lose two seats, which is possible, the second one would have to come from the New York area and there is of course a chance that the legislature. Basically you know tears apart her district. You know ten ways from Sunday leaving her without you know basically having to take on another incumbent. so I think that and also I mean you know she is trying to you know, build your. She is trying to build and of her own power base within the house. and you know if she raises money, she can certainly help candidates that she favors and their primaries and It helps with that as well I mean in terms of her going negative on her opponent. You know She saw what happened. When incumbent didn't take her challenge seriously, so she had to take her seriously and you know there's issue had. Had enough money were that? You know really you know the you know being able to sleep at night knowing that you were able to hit your opponent Yeah, it was worth it when you know by seventy, two thirty instead of sixty six, thirty four. We should say that we should say that you know by negative I mean they basically just rent her bio and. That was basically it was basically just saying like reading her bio. Came across as negative at. So you don't let me just get this clear. You don't think that she's trying to bigfoot my run against Chuck Schumer. I don't think he's even thinking that far ahead. I think she you know, but also you know I think really. The new maps are probably. What's on her mind more than a potential move to the Senate? Right at that. That makes a Lotta sense although I will say this that I think I would take a leave of absence for the show to work on her behalf to unseat Chuck Schumer I I don't know if I were I know I. Don't want anybody. Hold me to that I got. A two kids are going into college, but but The I I would love to see that at the very least. My prediction is Chuck Schumer is is going to be out. He's going to be basically You know I don't think he would go. As far as firebombing a police. Cars to show his of the laughed, but I think he's GonNa get close because he's. He's going to be worried about stuff and well he should. And and you know I I think in. Here's the thing about like. You're even seeing in Delaware for example Chris coons. Yes, songs institutionalists. Is that telling politico? Maybe we should do away with the filibuster. He wouldn't be saying that if if he didn't as the primary challenge from the left, and I mean, and I think primaries are healthy for the Party I think. It because in comments. You know let's. You know they need some type of feedback. Understand what people in their districts launch and if they're not being. Used in the primary, it's like okay well, then I can just kind of maintain the status quo, and so it's Kinda healthy to bring these issues up within the context of election, so they know that this is what people want, and and again it's you know I don't believe in kind of a Stalinist view of electron. History of you know, and I believe that you know people shouldn't be punished this therapy. I mean they should. There should be some type of contrition. Maybe I don't think we should punish people for kind of coming to a movement lately and rather we should encourage you know if you know there are. That you want spring politicians around and they come around to them maybe belatedly but. There should be that much of a punishment if you kind of think about. They came about it because they. came to understand. Is that really something that their constituents want I and so yeah, fair enough with that I I hear that, but I want to stay with Chris coons for a moment because okay i. don't believe him. Okay I just I. Don't believe Chris coons on this. Do we have that clip of Kuhn's sang? Because just to be clear. What everybody said the the hill reported that. Chris coons. they write a story about what why you need a filibuster basically and Here's what Chris Consent. We're GONNA have a real challenge being able to legislate, he said if we're going to legislate durable solutions, we have to be having conversations now. But what's the pass forward towards a healthier more functional, senate? Coons told the publication. He does not advocate eliminating the Filibuster, but also does not believe the options off the table. A will not stand idly by for four years watched the Biden. Administration's initiative blocked at every turn. I'm going to try really hard to find a path forward. That doesn't require moving. What's left of the structural guardrails? But if there's a Biden administration, it will be inheriting a mass home and abroad, and requires urgent and effective action, so he may not stop by for four years, but I have a feeling. He'll do it for three at the very least. Don't we have a clip of do branded? We have this clip of Kuhn's talking about. Not, just not eliminating or or not just not taking the elimination of the legislative filibuster off the table. But Brandon, do we have this clip? I have a version of him saying. Well we don't. We have a version of him saying. I would bring back the filibuster for judges. Take back the Senate. Have that all right well I that is a quote from its paraphrase from Chris coons and the idea that this guy has done this one eighty in the course of I, don't know. Twelve to eighteen months like what has changed about the Republican Party Right like now. Maybe it's Joe Biden so he's not as worried and he wanted to make sure that if Bernie Sanders was president that he'd be able to block that I. don't trust him whatsoever so I would say two words Jess Koska rain and nine. And we will put up a link. I've interviewed are. We will bring her back on this program before the fall so. but you're right it absolutely on voters to determine whether those changes Carter's fear endurable. There, you go now, let me ask you this. There is as far as I know only. We talked about New York and miss last thing I want to talk about. We talked about New York no movement to the right. With Democratic you know in terms of democratic come at some somehow non but nobody's GonNa get replaced with someone who is to the right of them and there was that scare that sounds like Richie tour. Zaza has has dealt with not necessarily my favorite Democrat and that, but he's better than what we what what what could have been What are is there any opportunity I mean is? Is the ED markey race? The only high profile race in the country where we could see someone, the actually a primary from the right and defeated and I don't know if Kennedy's even running that way, but he certainly is to the right of Ed Markey. It seems to me. I that does I I'm. That's certainly appears to be the biggest at least nationwide Threat for a seat to move or for you legislated to move to the right and you know I. Mean just generally it's not you know looking at all the evidence that we have. From this year it's just not the direction the party senators. I and I really think it. You know again you know politics you know follows culture and the movement. Worrying is kind of this long overdue reckoning with kind of the role that race plays in society kind of the political systems, neglect of so many people, and just in that moment i. don't know that a message of kind of like a more kind of pro status. Status Quo message really helps very much so you know I think the Kennedy that race kind of its own thing or castle -Chusetts for whatever reason they just love Kennedy but you don't really see that much of it and the rest of the country and you know the movement within the Democratic Party in the primaries that we seeing this year has been. For Liberals and left. And I don't see why that would stop and the remaining primaries that we have this year and climate director research and give smart at the future now fund as always. Thank you so much time. Really appreciate it. Thanks, for having these damn look out for the. New York Absentee Return Only Oh. Yeah, I'll tell you what I'm losing. Row All right. All right bye. I I. Hope I don't regret. Using that thing. I. Really Hope I don't. is it too loud? Matt is to been down. It's a little bit loud, but I think it kind of ads. Roll. Slow! The better could go down even a bit more maybe. I'm losing it for out there we go. Folks were going to take a break in head into the fund half and joining us in that front half. will be Michael Brooks. Let me just I remind you. This program relies on your support. To keep doing what we do. And I'll tell you right now, Row, but it's my members that keep me from totally losing it, and you could become a member at join the majority report DOT Com. When you do you not only get the free show free of commercials, not so good extra content. Nearly every day we are also developing a system where you know members will get. A special hotline to call during the show and other goodies as we go four award so join a majority report DOT COM also don't forget our merch available at a shop dot, majority report, radio DOT, com shop, dot, majority, report radio DOT com I'm GonNa eventually bring on a piece of merchant, and and promote that he can sign up for the am quickey at am quickie dot, com, and just coffee, dot, Co, op, fairtrade, coffee, tea, or chocolate use the coupon code majority get ten percent off and a like I said joining me and the fun half Michael Brooks of course. The the host of the Michael, Brook Show, and and speaking of which my Hullo. What What took place on Tuesday of this week? What took place Tuesday was William Schalke of Africa's country joined us from Johannesburg and you talked about. The police departments in South Africa what happened after the ANC took over South Africa liberating the country from apartheid. How did police in change and not change because of basically of glass dynamics around policing? What does America have to learn from South Africa? What is South Africa? After learn from? America also had Ronin burtenshaw from the Tribune to talk about the last ten years of left politics and We talked about Liberation Theology a whole bunch of other stuff in the post game. Pedro Dot com slash TM. Bs and we are sore is restocked as well as he envious DOT FM if you WANNA get some union made shirts and stuff like that. You are You are I feel like. A week away from looking exactly like Castro. Absolutely, that's the goal. We share. My. Yup August thirteenth doing catch up. I? Did realize it. And if you're looking like Gillian, you're also looking like Joaquin Right. Now. I think actually honestly GonNa know going to start wearing green fatigues. I like it now you should. I WANNA. Do for to actually. Do it. Also folks Check Out The no Miki Shadow. No Miki show. You can find out. Patriot Dot Com now Miki. Show and Youtube Dot Com the no, Mickey show. I hopped on her livestream last night to talk about The New York. Primary had a great crew. People all people who? Work on elections in new. York and really give you a very good sense of the nuts and bolts of what it takes to run a campaign and so check out her program also the Anti Antifa. Find out a Patriot on DOT com. Jamie, I. Don't know if you're aware of this Michael but Jamie is a Headed on a camping excursion. She won't be with you tomorrow hour. She camping. I don't say that as are opposites cools. Upset yeah exactly. I hope this just a campus going to Antarctica. Exactly, it's a little too hot up there at that but so check out the Intifada Matt. What's What is what journey will you be taking on your twitch stream tonight The Herald GonNa night remains to be seen, but the next journey will be into the North Atlantic it with assassin stroke and I'll be taking on some British ships. Can we learn about Peter Line and Marcus rediker? The many headed Hydra, sailors, slaves, commoners, and the hidden history of the Revolutionary Atlantic, and a big talks about how pirate pirates were sort of anti imperial, good guts. That's a bit of a reduction of but that that'll be the next leader Hang Street so twitch dot TV slash literary hangover. All right folks quick break. Six for sixty, five, seven, thousand, nine, twenty, the number and turn on the IM's take couple of those. And seeing fun have. Left is sat. Jamie and I may have a disagreement. Yeah, you can just say whatever you want about people just because you're rich I, have an absolute right. Mock them on Youtube. He's up there. Buggy whipping boss I am not your employer. Hardly negatively I'm sorry. I didn't mean upset. you nervous. A little bit set, you riled up. Should rethink your defensive at Your fucking idiots, which is going to get rid of you all right dude dude dude dude dude dude. You want to smoke his joint. Yes. Do you feel like you are a dinosaur? Lock. Shit exactly I'm happy now, so win win! It's a win. Win Win Hell Yeah, hell listen to me to. Bad Times, eight, four, seven, nine, zero, six, five, oh, one, four, five seven. Thirty eight fifty, six, twenty, seven one half, five, eight hundred three point nine billion. Wow, he's also been math or don't you see? A real job. Bought? Everybody's taking their dumb juice. Sammy Dance Dance ooh. were. At first host. A woman and hoping. To my repertoire. Swirl buying the. Yes, this is a perfect moment. No wait what you make under a million dollars a year. Me Fuck you. Think you belong in jail. Horrible. Quick break? Or take a moment to talk to some of the Libertarians out there. Duke whatever vehicle you want. To drive to the library. What you're talking about. His JIB JAB laugh thick. I'm feeling more chill already. Donald trump kiss all of our asses. Sam Andy Guys Ready to. Schindler such an idiot. No, Death to America. Wow. That's. Unbelievable. Guy's got a really. I WanNa just flesh this out a little bit I mean look. It's a free speech issue if you don't like me you. You for calling in to the majority report. Them we'll be with you shortly.

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