20 Episode results for "Gaskins"

The Wire

Pee Wee Gaskins Was Not My Friend

45:12 min | 3 months ago

The Wire

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The tenth still speeches us check out of us at moves. Diamonds dot com again. That's nervous diamonds. Dot com pee wee. Gaskins had a lot of friends but if they crossed him he wasn't afraid to kill them. Eight bodies were found in his burial field. But those victims stories may never have come to light had it not been for the schoolteacher who filed a missing persons report. It all began with kim g- elkins and this story of that missing girl can be elkin was killed because she was a threat to freedom. She was always in danger of something that other people were trying to do to her. It's easy to get caught up in someone's manipulations that then you fall victim the same light we we said this is jim. You didn't have to worry about hours right here with you. I was petrified from iheartradio doghouse. Pictures this is pee. Wee gaskins was not my friend. I'm jeff keating can live at countered street in charleston which was across the street from where we live. Kim live with her father and her older sister. Peewee the friend. Did all kinds of kim calkins visited pee-wee's home often and became friends with donald gaskins. His last wife. Donna was only seven years older than kim. Kim's mother died a couple of months before she met peewee donna and it wouldn't be long before she would disappear from his research and many conversations with peewee. Jim learned a lot about the tragic life of that missing girl cameras thirteen years old when she died. She was gracious shoot loving. She was appreciative. She very much loved on gaskins and nana was offered a good tour but she was a gentle slow baby teenage girl. Kim apparently struggled with academics. A fifth grader at chicago elementary school. She was three years older than her classmates. Most of whom were ten and eleven. That's where she met. Her teacher marianne griffin. When she assigned the students to write a paper on the person they admired. Most kim wrote a better neighbour. Donna kim often took weekend trips with donna and peewee to their home in prospect south carolina. The charlotte observer reported that kim's sister and father had warned her not to be going to the gaskins home and cited marianne griffin. Who recognized quote that she looked up to this nineteen year old girl because her mother was dead in quote. Here's a neat abadie. I cannot imagine how lonely that child. Kim gal can was in her t to clearly loved her in way and felt sorry for her and protective of her and had a sense of all of the trials that kim must have gone through the teacher and chakufwa elementary school. Marianne griffin was her name. She filed a missing persons report after a week and a half of kim being absent. it doesn't appear. Her father filed a missing persons report. No-one overstreet did this. Those people under the radar did report to the police missing people. But this teacher did this. The kim belkin story guess what started the whole investigation. Thank goodness for that alert and caring teacher without teacher. All the victims may still be in a missing person style. And of course a law enforcement took it seriously and the threads started to unravel and this put the north charleston police rufus tony and roy green on this case and they just sent excellent team an excellent policemen and they got on this case and they ultimately found that pee. Wee gaskins was tied to this missing girl. It didn't take long to zero in on gaskins as a suspect. Investigators were aggressive pounding the pavement looking for leads. That's when they met the mother of dennis. Bellamy diane bellamy and johnny nights. She reported her three children or also missing Mrs night brought the story to ahead. Marianne griffin began it permission. I gave information. That people in the neighborhood are all missing. They would also learn jesse. Judy and johnny sellers were missing and the common denominator in these missing persons. Was pee wee gaskins when they arrived at his home peewee. Wasn't there but the detectives did me sandy. The donna gaskins. It was the ex wife. Sandy who gave the detectives the lead they were looking for. Sandy snell gaskins told the police that peewee and cam often in prospect. Knowing kim was last seen with pee wee gaskins police quickly obtained a search warrant for pee-wee's trailer ninety miles away in prospect. It was there. They found clothing. That belonged to kim calkins. They also found a stolen car on his lot and he was arrested that same day for auto theft and contributing to the delinquency of a minor took her out across county allows. It was a minor charge as far as compared to murder was certainly series and have to put him back in jail still. There was no sign of kim calkins who had been missing for nearly sixty days. Police detectives tracked down walter. Neely pee-wee's close friend and applied pressure. Walter buckled but. He had no idea where kim was. He didn't know we had taken her to stay with his daughter. Shirley and gaskins and her husband howard evans. Police knew she wasn't there anymore. Shirley ann thought camp had gone to indiana where she had some family. So police were in a bind. Walter had taken them to pee wee's burial grounds and they were knee deep in digging up bodies but still no word on kim calkins dead or live. Kim galligan was abused rather moodley by her father. And she loved and adored pee wee gaskins and his wife. Donna peewee is directly across the street. From kim. kim is distraught. Wants to get away. She decided she's going to go get help. And the person who helps everybody and she went over and tears and he said what's the matter cam lets talk. She says i want to talk to you by ourselves. And they step out into the back of a car. He's working on and she tells him i've got to get away. Can i move in with y'all across the street and he thought a it say we can't do that kim but i can get a for you. And he thought immediately. I'll take her to shirley and evans is daughter at prospect ropes. Crossroads she can go. There comes howard and shirli-ann neubauer hotel. So he made arrangements to take kim to prospect which he did the following friday afternoon honestly motivated to help her and get her away from her father. Her mother had died six months before of cancer and she was absolutely distraught with behavior of her father and went directly to pee wee. She wanted results. that's why she went to pay we. I rather than anyone else and peewee takes kim galveston to prospect to live at his daughter's house knowing that there's a great risk in doing this because he had no business taking a teenage girl anywhere for anything but he did it to help her. There was no evidence ever submitted that her father abused her and no charges ever filed. Gaskins would go on to explain to jim as he had in his deposition that kim stayed with his daughter and her husband for a few months this meant she disappeared from her home for more than a month before anybody reported her missing. Just prior to that report being filed. Kim had an opportunity to speak with the owner of a local country store and prospect and what she revealed was shocking so she goes to the country store and talks to the owner. And ask for help and somehow word gets back to shirli-ann that cam is talking about being abused by her husband. Kim told the store owner that peewee his son-in-law howard evans and his brother charles were all raping her in the house. When word got back to shirley ann she called her father peewee to report that kim had been jawline. It was about ninety days into the search for kim calkins. Police were busy. Unearthing the eight bodies p. We had murdered but kim was not one of them north charleston. Police chief lynnwood. Simmons stated that all leads to find. The girl had been exhausted but that the case was still active police. Detective roy green points directly to pee wee gaskins as a prime suspect saying kim was last seen with him and a white pickup truck and his trailer home in prospect. Roy suspects foul play. And then nothing absolutely nothing. The case goes cold for almost a year until peewee was convicted of dennis bellamy's murder and found himself on trial for bonduelle. Yates is murder. Peewee gave up barn wells body in exchange for a conjugal visit. Donna and for an additional conjugal visit he led investigators to kim calkins body. Kim galkin was killed with a campbell soup. Knife p waited one hour for camp to be brought to him in a shallow grave not very far from his trailer there in prospect and cameras braun to pee wee ponto young women re marlow share are their names and they will never ever as far as i know accused of anything kip. Belkin was killed because she was a threat to freedom. There was no evidence to support pee-wee's allegation and the two women were never charged with anything. Kim's jawing about being raped threatened pee-wee's freedom and he tried to save himself by sacrificing. Her he shot and stabbed kim elkins. There was no evidence that confirmed rape or sexual activity of any kind. The body was too decomposed when recovered identification was made matching her teeth tour last known picture showing her smile but there were no dental records. For comparison at the time of his confession. Peewee was in prison for life. Tried to plea deal to avoid death. He was never charged. For kim galvin's murder and police closed the file. The believe she's being saved and wound up being killed not because of anything she did but because of what two males reportedly were doing with her so he wouldn't have to go back to jail because she was going to tell the police she was always in danger of something that other people were trying to do to her and all she wanted with love and safety and that rings a bell with me i cannot ever imagine not feeling safe. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. Luckily there's forward a new approach to primary care that surprisingly personal and refreshingly straightforward forward never makes you feel like just another patient backed by top rated doctors and the latest tech forward gives you access to personalized care whenever you need it using in-depth genetic analysis in real time bloodwork forwards top-rated. 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Stains co crazy on your garbage disposal. Gunk seal clear has formulas to help you get the dirty deeds done. Plus many of their products meet the epa safer product standard. So while tough on messes it still the safer choice for your family and the environment show dirt and grime around your home. who's boss with. Cslr clear and fight the clean fight. Learn more about the entire product lineup by going to see are brands. Dot com for reasons unknown. Kim calkins felt safe asking peewee. Donald gaskins for help. She was one of numerous people who felt this way round peewee but then found herself on the wrong end of a knife and gun. Diane dennis genus. All of the people we killed experiences at one time or another gym benei since that kinship is well he put it at risk when he failed to deliver the radio to peewee son and he was anxious to restore that trust again as he sought to finish his book on pee. Wee gaskins the trail. Probably the fiercest animated. He had he did not ever want to be betrayed. And then when i was saying in a tiny tiny way of betraying him by failing to take the radio to the son that one thing let me know that i could be in danger. Just as the people any burger. Jim worked to repair anything that put him in danger. Well one day visit visited pee wee. The visiting room was full and the guard name was joe said. Do you mind if you all meet in a room down hall so he took us into a room and he closed the door. And i say peewee is that. Is that door locked. And he's interested. Gm they lock. Every door. i go into. Jim was stressed after the radio incident. And there he was locked in a room with gaskins and now he was scared so we have our usual hour and a half meeting. Two hours came two hours and fifteen minutes came. Three o'clock came and i was beginning to get uneasy. Finally the guard. I never seen before. He opens the door and apologizes says. I'm sorry actually. We forgot where we put you. And pee wee said mr jim. It's getting a little anxious and then we reached over and put his hand on my arm and said jim. You didn't have a thing to worry about hours right here with you. I was petrified. Jim wanted to finish his book which would mean more interviews and even though he was petrified. Jim did his best to stay on. Good terms with peewee. Anyway he said you know it's been almost a year now. Since i've seen my mom and i said would you like from you to bring her here to visit you. He said i would like to add. So we arranged for me to take his mother to the prison yuli it was pee-wee's mother and anita beatty remember. Sir p with mother this parrot. I caught her. That was as kind and upright and engaging person she's quiet sorta dignified small her house. I was impressed. I'm never been so impressed in home. It was a little shack. It was like a shotgun shak and the yard wasn't a yard. It was dirt around the house. I know she swept it. It was immaculate. That house was abs- could eat off the floor. I'm sure mother fed him wonderful food and he knew she loved him and he wanted her no. He loved her. She was quite special. I think there were lots stories that he wouldn't tell until she was gone but he his family life was of course no family. He had an older sister. He and his older sister were born to yuli parrot out of wedlock and yuli worked in the fields. With a man to survive she was his best. I can tell a hard working honorable individual who loved her children and cared for that as well as she could. They were passed around. Peewee told me that there were days he would wake up and not know loose house he was in. He'd been taken there for them to care for him then. He spoke about the treatment of his mother's brother's of him from age. Four on until the arrest at age. Thirteen that sunday afternoon when they went to jail. Then reforms go. He was brutally brutally tortured by his uncles. And this was corroborated. When i had there with carol hannah pee-wee's younger sister by seventeen years of age. He was abused. He was abused as a little boy. He was abused by the uncles. Jim knew that a mother wanted to be with her child and a child with his mother picture up took her to the prison. She would not talk. I could not get her to talk about anything quiet. Gentle oh frail. Much strong and the room was relatively empty that day and i sat over in the corner as far as i could get from them but i was taking notes and observing saw them do and i noticed it from time to time p would just move hand over and put it on top of her hand which is very poignant and my thinking hear a man that i didn't dream at any kind of feeling for anything. Anybody was clearly enthralled with his mother and happy to be with her and they chatted and talk and our ten minutes came the end of it and they stood and embraced and the only time i ever saw. Peewee smile was when he closed his eyes and hugged his mother. And here's this man. Who's taken life after life embracing the woman who gave him his life and i thought that that was a powerful picture of seeing that there and i thought people ask me often. What drew you to this man. How could you possibly keep going back there to that. Creature the irony of this taker of lives and this giver of his life embracing each other and he smiles the only time i ever saw here solicitor. Dick harpootlian talking about pee-wee's intelligence and childhood. If you took charles manson not about fifty points off his. I q haven't grow up in a swamp and south carolina where he's abused sexually by men. I think he dropped out of school in the seventh grade. Never had any education but most of the people you hung out with were criminals. Spent some time with the carnival. I mean he's just sort of a redneck. Charlie manson charismatic extent be attracted people to manipulated people. P we prayed on the vulnerability of his victims and force many of them to be complicit in his crimes he manipulated everyone around him and he got everyone around him to do what he wanted including the babies because anything p we asked him to do he did i mean. He wanted him to visit his mother. We did took to beach in a took a sister and little. Johnny peewee son. Sammy anything that peewee needed. Jim wanted to help him with he was just a beattie's also met with peewee sister. His sister looked like a different kind of person from peewee she was attractive. She was polite well mannered just two different ilk almost and it must have been held for her to be the victim of a brother who was the most notorious mass murderer in south carolina. History and cheese going up going to high school going to school. thank god. She didn't share his last name. And so that may have protected her. Some but jim went out to lunch. I think one time. And i'm sure. She shared stories with him about the pain and anger. She felt toward him not just for what he did. That was bad enough. But for the fact that she shared his blood somehow and had to accept some of the fallout from the publicity and the notoriety in the horror of this man and his son. He didn't stand a chance because he was donald. Henry gaskins third. Here's jennifer hawes talking about. One characteristic of a killer. I think it goes back to control their like master manipulators. That you think they're helping you or you're helping them. It's easy to get caught up in someone's manipulations and you alone understand them in a way that nobody else does and then you fall victim in the same way. This is how gaskins made himself appear as protector seeming to be generous and selfless at times. This is how he convinced. Johnny night to walk into the woods to meet his brother before being murdered himself. This is how he was able to kill. Kim calkins and how he got one. Two snell and walter neely to go along with outrageous stories and cover up his crimes by now. Jim was hopeful that peewee posed no threat to him or his family. He genuinely looked for the good and human beings he always wanted to help others and this extended to peewee as well his acronym jimmy big favor. I said sure. What if i can i will. He presented his case that if they had fifty feet of tv cable flat wire copper on either side he could hook a tv set and it would enable fifty people to be able to watch tv rather than the five or six and. I thought well how nice would love to help. People be able to watch sunday afternoon. Football as i do. P was a cell block trustee and this gave him certain responsibilities. Here's dick harpootlian. Well a trustee in department of corrections are i back. Then specifically would be somebody that would be given supervisory duties over the other inmates peewee had been in and out of the department of correction most of his wife and so he the institution and once he had these sentences they knew he was going to be there for awhile stability. He has skills. They trusted him to do the work that they didn't have to pay somebody else to do. Fix the plumbing. Factually electrical work and to give tasks to the other inmates. He was the guy that control the lives in terms of who got to work in the library who had ordered the laundry different jobs. Different jobs like wiring tvs for his fellow inmates. Jim babies currency is altruism work for and support others people can be redeemed pee wee gaskins knew this and was ready to leverage gyms behavior for a scheme involving the wire and i said sure be able to do. Is that okay to do. Can mail that here to you he said. Oh yeah i get back all the time. They investigate everything they open it. They checked to see if there's anything illegal and say we'll tell me again. What am i buying. And how do i do this to go to any hardware store and asked for fifty feet of television cable wire and i went to as hardware somewhere there in myrtle beach i mailed it to. We wonder how long it would take him to get the tv connective. So many people could watch. I didn't ultimate favor of mailing him. Television wire fifty feet of tv cable. I learned later. That fifty feet was within the distance of his cell to rudolph timers in a rapidly. Changing world people wonder more and more about where their food comes from and out was grown. Farmers who grow america's corn understand. How important this is and will share the stories from our farms of how we are working to grow an incredible crop. That can be an answer to sustainability questions and has grown by men and women who value the air water soil and our natural resources. Just like you to find out more about how corn farmers are working to feed and fuel a vibrant economy and healthy planet visit. Nca dot com a commitment to the future. Do you wonder where your food comes from more. And more people to america's corn farmers work hard every day to grow a crop that you can be proud to serve your family. And they're doing it with an eye toward sustainability caring for water air soil and resources that fuel healthy families and more sustainable products. Take a look to find out how farmers in rural america worked to make life better for all of us from cities to their rural communities. Learn more at nc g. dot com in cg a commitment to the future in the spring of nineteen seventy eight rudolph. Tyner was eighteen years old when he left new york city. After several run-ins with the police he ended up in coastal south carolina and stayed with carlton davis he frequented moons grocery for snacks and drinks. Bill and murdy moon owned the store and live down the street. Their son and daughters also live nearby with their families. Bill was retired military and took classes at nearby coastal carolina university. Dr jim baby new bill. I taught at coastal carolina university. I had the good occasion at least two semesters of registering bill moon and i liked this guy so much and i ask him to sign up for one of my english classes and he said oh. No no no. So that. I've heard about you. He's not to gyms disappointment. Bill didn't sign up for his literature. Classes though semesters jim thought bill would have enjoyed the poems stories and tales. He taught from medieval period into the twentieth century. Those poems and stories frame gyms encounter with the world one of those stories. The strange case of doctor. Jekyll and mr hyde provides a clear arena to engage the contradictions of the inner self. The hero versus evil true love finding a home and the duality of the human condition hefty topics for authors across the ages that became guiding themes in dr. Jim baby's life but bill moon never took gyms class and on march eighteenth nineteen seventy eight. He and his wife murdy worked their last night together. They were closing up their store just before ten pm when rudolph tyner walked in he had been in the store several times in the previous week's and this time he wielded a shotgun tyner took their money and fled up the screen door for unknown reasons. He reentered the store and shot. Bill moon in the chest and then shot murdy who fell to the floor facing her dying husband. Tyner left the store and got into a car. Driven by carlton davis. They were arrested hours later. When carlton's father called the police after becoming suspicious. Bo signed confessions the next morning. All of coastal south carolina mourn the moons and voiced their anger at tyner. Jim beattie read about the tragic murders crushed crushed and hear his devotion to his stepson. Tony cmo and to his wife. Bill moon was a marvelous man. Mars individual and have been taken down like that was absolutely outrageous within the year. Tiner was on trial and convicted of the murders. The jury took under an hour descendants him to death in the states electric chair by one thousand nine hundred eighty. Two taina was housed in central correctional institute over the four prior years he had been moved on and off death row. Depending on the status of as many legal appeals and state supreme court rulings. He was housed and cellblock two at which was run by prison. Trustee pee wee gaskins. Jim was well into fifty interviews with peewee writing a book about the murderous life during one such meeting in the cell blocks common area. Jim mentioned to pee wee that he knew bill moon before tyner murdered him. The first time that i've ever encountered rudolph tyner in conversation with shelly he said. That's rudolf steiner. Rudolph tyner. He's the man that killed your friend. Bill moon might not have been gyms personal friend but he did have admiration for him. He told peewee as much peewee seemed to sympathize with jim he thought it was terrible. He thought it should have been renamed may right and then he said i can blow him away if i had my thirty thirty right here Tony cmo bill moon son. Wanted tyner dead. Tony did everything in his power to assure. Justice was served. Here's dick harpootlian. I think tony was somebody who was traumatized by their violent deaths and wanted adjusted wanted revenge and when he was sentenced to death the second time. The story is cmo. Tried to attack and physically. He became obsessed with it which rumors that he hit on the roof of a building across the courthouse at the second trial with a high powered rifle killed china but in the door on the opposite side prosecuted him i dealt with him. He seemed like the most normal all american guy in the world. Just had this obsession with avenging. The death of his parents. Jim beattie knew about tyner and his case. There's no way though that he knew tony cmo was plotting his own form of justice after the courts couldn't get his parents killer into the electric chair. Jim didn't know about the possible sniper attempt nor was he aware that tony cmo contacted peewee in one thousand nine hundred eighty two. Someone referred him to gaskins and he and guests began telephone conversations. They never said times name and he never said seem name but touch tone phones. You can figure out phone number. Fbi could from tones and came back to johnny simao and it was done from a payphone in the cell block and on those calls gaskins is arranging to get something smuggled in and it turns out he talks about poison jail guys give son of edge all of the one dollars of doing it making that son of a bitch shake with in some drank down tonight and all it was made up sticking hail his hail hail for day or two and that's got about one mode though some today i'll bet you about Makes plays very shit that that's worth it is for. You made up pretty laugh. I a little bit. I give it to booth everything else. My master for journal for he's real wows on that he turned up. He's not snowing law so he would know what killed started. Now i'll give you the rest of that in the morning arrest over. He won't eat. How get colored in the morning. I'll investigators learned that cmo in a friend had tested the poison on a dog and the dog died so now two people had designs on killing tyner peewee and cmo and they conspired together to finish the job. The poison couldn't do. China would eventually have not an electric chair. Would fall. tony cmo and for it was not fast enough. So peewee again took the law and whose lands as peewee told me several times. Lots of people don't deserve to live in rudolf. Tiny was come up shop at a elected as much of a stick. A damn might as you get out. Take a damn radio walkway. Plus it's not a go up won't be no damn coming back on band. We recorded this call on one of the many audio cassettes. He had in a cell his status. The prison trustee gave him the confidence to ask cmo for some explosives. If he got the materials into a cell he could pretty much do whatever he wanted with them. He had access to everywhere in the cell block. Here's dick harpootlian. First of all on the grounds that fifteen sales on each side of this island rise it out of the middle of the cell block. If you've seen any humphrey bogart. James cagney movie. You understand exactly what i'm talking about. These sell blocks built in the thirties and forties and between the backs of those two cells on either side is what they call the trace. Which is a gap of about two and a half to three feet. In which all the plumbing and electrical wires run and gaskins the building man had access to that area and none of these places were air conditioned so they advance in the back of the end into of the train to give some circulation of air. Just a great probably a foot square so gaskins befriended tyner and his cell backed up to the trace as we did accept it was offset by to sell and those great at the top of the cell. So you could stand on a chair and talk to somebody through the great on the other side of the cell block. Tony used jim babies home in myrtle beach as the return address on the package. He sent peewee. Jim had been trusted visitor at the prison. For some time. It was going to take something much stronger than poison to kill tyner like some c four explosives and a long wire that wire would spark the detonation. That wire would deliver the charge for the murder for hire. That wire was not going to bring sunday afternoon. Football to prisoners like jim imagined. We never thought to be worried about something he would send. Tv or god forbid that we would use to implicate him pee. Wee gaskins was not. My friend is a joint production from iheartradio and doghouse. Pictures produced and hosted by jeff keeping executive producers courtney to freeze and noah brown written by jim roberts courtney freeze and terry james at it mix and sound design by jeremiah. Kalani prescott music composed by diamond street productions spencer born and ian newbury special thanks to jim and anita abadie additional thanks to the university of south carolina moving image research collections and the university of south carolina. Shell brothers is now building new homes in ten unique communities across tax friendly coastal delaware with twelve models available to virtually tour you can discover shaw brothers unique curb appeal and sensational floor plans from the comfort of your own home. Spring is the perfect time to start planning your dream home to start exploring everything. Show brothers has to offer visit us today. At shaw brothers dot com models currently open by appointment only in a rapidly changing world people wonder more and more about where their food comes from and out was grown. The farmers who grow america's corn understand. How important this is and to share the stories from our farms of how we are working to grow an incredible crop that can be an answer to sustainability questions and his grown by men and women who value the air water soil and our natural resources just like you to find out more about how corn farmers are working to feed and fuel a vibrant economy and healthy planet visit. Nca dot com nc a commitment to the future.

kim calkins kim gaskins Wee gaskins wee gaskins Kim marianne griffin Marianne griffin pee wee gaskins Jim roy green howard evans donald gaskins Peewee yuli Gaskins jim Kim calkins kim g jeff keating
Truth, Lies and Legend

Pee Wee Gaskins Was Not My Friend

44:32 min | 5 months ago

Truth, Lies and Legend

"You know about prints. Biggie mick jagger. Miles davis isn't about them. This is about a girl a podcast about women whose stories have been eclipsed by the legends of their famous partners. Mike garcia marianne faithfull. Norma tanega leah all coming at you in season two of about a girl. Listen to about a girl on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast talk with your host of show. You may know me. As the judge. On top chef season on citizens shift we don't deep into topics ranging from disaster relief and various injustices and hurt our food system. I hope you're as excited as i am to jump back in so starting this. May you can tune it to hear from experts on a wide range of issues that you with your phone and your dollars have the power to change. Listen to citizenship on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Heart anywhere you get your favorites through weekly phone calls. Regular prison house visits and his own hours spent poring over everything he could read. Jim beattie learned a lot about pee wee gaskins. He learned that they grew up in proximity to each other. That p we spent time with the carnival that he was an exemplary employee that they worked at the same factory at different times. Pee wee's own history an image. Both were inflated by media. Some of these stories are true. Prison escapes and child endangerment and some stories are legends unsupported by evidence like cannibalism have him. Oh if you have a trigger that figured into can point to some things he replied stat at least made these days. Possible argued treatment of childhood. No seventeen eddie keel over one hundred themselves. It's a legend in his own. Mind from iheartradio doghouse pictures. This is peewee. gaskins was not my friend. I'm jeff keating. Jim beattie had many questions when he agreed to author pee wee gaskins biography to his own surprise rather than find them media hyped killer. Jim found something very different. The paradox the contradiction of this being this creature that i sat with for so many hours absolutely fascinating to me. These two men would quickly discover that they had a lot in common and some very stark differences. I wanted to know about the life of this man. This man a year older than i who eighty miles apart some geographically and environmentally. The same people here. I am blessed with a family and career in teaching and use a man who grew up and became a mass murderer. They may have grown up in the same area in a similar environment but their beginnings were vastly different. Here's pee wee gaskins talking about the abuse. He received as a child from his sister's cruelty and the many other adults who live together with his mother in the early nineteen forties affairs. I told him i had done anything. No matter If i had or had thought the hell out of me i around the house decor and start to cry and a real big red will on the she'd come out where i was at she gently goody goody goody and And most of the time. That's five hell out of doing that and i knew did it was gonna leave me again. And even even if. I didn't do it a lot of time. She'd run in the house of making is she was crying. Should tell my mother that. I had slapped her ibiza. Come out and not be hard to get off. I have real real fellow back. That's the kind treatment our got it a childhood i never ever wants remember being spanked severely. Our never punish physically any kind of physical harm or danger in my home. I was utterly obedient and wouldn't have thought of breaking a rule. Part of gyms disciplined was because he was raised by presbyterian minister. His family attended church every week period. Despise the church anything to do with it and started back when his mother dragged him to church. Every sunday jim and his wife anita have been married over fifty years and as it turns out peewee head somewhere around six wives. I loved what he told me on divorce. I never forget it. Really how in the world do you get divorced and married six times and deal with that. He's at all. You don't get divorced in south carolina so all you gotta do in south carolina is just go. Buy another marriage license. Surprisingly jim and pee we also worked in the same campbell soup factory at different times strangely. Enough campbell soup was not manufactured. They're the only thing manufactured there were swanson chicken pot pies in my job at campbell. Soup plan was to clean the wing machine and during my interviews a campbell soup knife and he pointed out to me. The campbell soup knife was used in several of the deaths and i was fascinated with this and he explained to me the campbell. Soup knife is a butcher knife. But it has razor. Sharp blade is more like a razor knife and that report he used to clean the raw meat of the chickens as prepared to become swanson chicken pot pies and i had occasion to say to pewee. Zippier you're not gonna believe this. But i worked at campbell soup platt. Also his you did. I said yes idea. So we decided then at p. together and been responsible for feeding the world swanson. Chicken potpie five These men were contrast in history and demeanor a minister and a murderer. A literary professor into self taught me and they shared a certain amount of respect as well. I also think that he had respect for me. For instance. I never heard peewee one time. Not once and all of my interviews. I never heard him used profanity. He was gracious actually knows aries. Which would be very surprising to millions of people who thinks about earning and keeping pee. Wee's respect would prove challenging after all gibb's first task as a writer was to listen and avoid confrontation with a killer sometimes stories he told jim were verifiably. True others less. So here's one of the first stories. He told jim resulted in pee. Wee's incarceration at the age of thirteen sunday afternoon. Peewee on his way to his friend's house down the road. They're going to work on bicycles and pay. We noticed a young woman in the corn. Feel in the cornrows. She was struck. He thought by the end of an axe and fell to the ground and whoever hit her disappeared peewee around to her held her head in his lap. She of course was breeding. He brought on him on his clothes. They person was gone. He will left the girl he thought. Dead down the road to work on the bicycles came back and there were dozens of people at all powered homeplace sunny afternoon. Police cars neighbors everybody and they questioned him and arrested him and took him away. P was tried for the crime based on a different version of the story for prosecutors in their view gaskins broke into a home to steal some items believing the family was gone for the weekend but a young woman slightly older than gaskins. A student at his school came home during the burglary and attacked him with an axe gaskins fought back and hit her in the head with the weapon. A florence county judge sentenced peewee gaskins or as he was known at the time. Donald henry perritt. Junior defence incarceration at the south carolina industrial school for white boys when he called the judge. Son of a bitch for the sentence he earned another year that sentence from june nineteen forty six until may nineteen fifty one would be just the beginning of his incarceration history. Here's jim beattie looking back on the story. He of course admitted kamini do so. I don't think he had any reason to lie about that. I think it's fifty fifty whether or not he was really guilty. Not on that purley charge that put him in reform go. Oh my view. The reform school is it was a terrible institution created an invented by people who are first of all racist and certainly had no sense of equality in social values. Poor people black people. These were the reasons for the creations. In my opinion of children's presence. Jim had good reason to question the justice system for children in nineteen forty six pee wee gaskins join two hundred and fifty other boys in a facility. That was right for abuse. It's impossible to say if things would have turned out differently at gaskins avoided the children's prison sentence but at least we thought so. He commented often the fact that this was the first time that he was ever in prison. And that it was under false charge and he reiterated to me that we would not be sitting in the penitentiary. Had it not been first of all incarcerated in reform school. He was abused by guards. He was abused by a nurse seriously. Mutally mistreated Introducing more dale a new iheartradio fiction thriller podcast from the creative minds of blood house and crypt tv. One month after two brothers disappear. In the shenandoah forest the lone survivor of the pair emerges starving disoriented and traumatized. Talking about to me is it says dial what happened out there in the woods and what dark secrets still remain threatening to create something unspeakable look at this call. No way this thing is a deer though. Look at the size of the teeth predator for sure. Beware the monster. You're running from mike. Be yourself listen to more day on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts veteran news anchor. Ron burgundy returns with the ron burgundy podcast to take on the most pressing and exciting topics of our day along with his co host and producer carolina. Barlow get the truth about the stories that affect your life as only ron burgundy can deliver it. I've heard it said perhaps by me that you can earn a degree listening to my podcast. That's what i heard from my source. That is myself. This is hard hitting no-holds-barred news. I am a trusted source for so many people out there. People think of me as a comforting compassionate welcoming presence in their homes. This is the special brand of honest to the point reporting. You come to expect from ron. Burgundy i don't know whether it's the timber of my voice measured tone or by muskie personal scent but i've never felt more loved broadcaster. Then right now. Listen to the ron burgundy podcast season. Four on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Donald gaskins had several monikers peewee. The redneck charles. Manson the meanest man in america most were -scribed to him is testament to either his physical stature or the gruesome nature of his crimes and the continual retelling of his horrors reeler fabricated given birth to myths and legends like many legends. There's often a threat of truth. Gaskins life of crime began early at the age of thirteen. He was sent to reform school. It was reported that he successfully escaped a total of four times. Four orange county. Deputy sheriff ray. Shoop testified that he arrested gaskins and returned to the industrial school. So many times video eventually gave up figuring. They didn't want him there anyway. Gaskins escaped the first time after receiving telling letter from his mother. Here's reporter holly gatling and jim beattie pee. Wee's back story is that he was raised by the name of junior parrot and then he found out later that his father was named gaskins and he changed his name to gaskins but he was raised junior parrot so at some point along the line changed his name to pee wee gaskins. I have no record or any indication that anyone ever called junior parrot anything but junior until he was in prison years later and at age thirteen he changed his name to donald henry gaskins when he confronted his father. Donald henry gaskins. Junior was sentenced to a violent reform school. He fought constantly with other boys and there were beatings from guards. One morning gaskins eluded patrol after breakfast and escaped stories like these became common people getting a kick out of tricks law over and over and over again and he was elated with that. Just love talking about it and telling me about it. After another bloody encounter at reform school gaskins was sent to a psychiatric hospital for evaluation but he was found sane enough to return to the industrial home. He immediately ran away again. This time he took cover as a mechanic in a traveling carnival that it set up in florence first involvement with amusements of america. He met a fourteen year old girl there. Once the father found out about their relationship peewee agreed to marry her. They went to a justice of the peace and the father signed off on the marriage when the carnival left south carolina gaskins returned to the industrial home to complete his sentence. The nickname peewee came about years after he changed his name from parrot to gaskins. Here's jimmy then some six eight years after that in the columbia prison peewee told me he got the name peewee. Because a reporter stated to guard or the guard the report one way or the other that little peewee falah and the reporter wrote sat and that caused the name to stick ameri other prison from reform school until the last xaver timer to one of more humorous ones. I've always been columbia. In one of his earlier incarcerations he was involved somehow with a tour of church folks who were in certain areas of the prison so he realized that he could just get right in that group that he could walk out. They walked down and he did. Peewee was clever and a master manipulator. He soon develops something of a flair for his six. He found great enjoyment in pulling the rug out from under his captors. It's no wonder that press joined in. Disseminating gaskins wild tales. These stories and images look good in print in reference to his many escapes in nineteen seventy five. The atlanta journal constitution reported quote long before the bodies were found. Junior paired gaskins had become a piece of local folklore in quote. It goes on to report a fantastic story where we jumped out of a second story window of a courthouse soon after police released the bloodhounds and p we caught them and tied to a tree while police were still on foot. Searching the woods. Gaskin circled back in rhode. P. was here on the roof of one of the patrol cars. And then there's a story when gaskins got away by fooling authorities into thinking. He was at the bottom of a pit of quicksand. Quick saint man when pe- league turned himself in and fars prison. One of the guards said to him. You know peewee they dug for you about a week and we said what did they find me and he said no and he said well why couldn't he said 'cause you or smarter than they are and after p jumped out of the courtroom window. He complained of an injury. Jim mockingly refers to this as pee. Wee's forever limp alone. The lynnwood often mysteriously disappear nell recalled limb to be just another one of gaskin. Stunts had limp all right until you turn them loose hand up. got rep. Let it be known at every opportunity to was cripples. The did you couldn't quite dope. All of this celebrity emboldened peewee even more. He took great pleasure in causing confusion in mayhem at a courthouse. The authorities once again got caught chasing their tail. So they're in this room packed with law enforcement. People probably twenty five thirty and had been going since that morning and one of the attorneys and we take a break so everybody gets up and leaves the room and they realize when everyone was in the hallway. The door closed in the room by himself. He's handcuffed ankle chains but the to loaded revolvers in the desk beside where the solicitor was sitting in one of the sheriff's bursts. In and says who's guarding peewee. He said solicited. Do you realize there are two loaded weapons in that desk drawer. They put their heads together. They say all right five of us burst the door open without weapons pointed at him. And that's exactly what they did and peewee is the hair with his feet on the desk and he said moyes you all know. I would not hurt me. We enjoyed telling that story. He loved the ira parnell recalls another time. We tried to escape. Peewee agreed to show authorities were more bodies were buried. Gaskins and ten members of the sled forensic team combed an open field near florence pee wee was cuffed and shackled at the waist. He was anxious. They kept trying to create space between himself and the guards dog trying to oh always leash that he wanted to get away from everybody. Get only go go. Look but what we didn't which dam was is they were at least two people in a little small pickup truck would put try to take away from and we saw that little trucks are there. We were in twice. We are all spread out over. Seventy five hundred yards in a land but in the middle and genital. Baylee more than anybody. Trust to take you from me. You'll be the first one shot and remember that Kind of slowed up a little bit then calmed down some but that little try we find out later. Does they had planned to take him from us. Tried to take your when it was too many of us and we rework munched up enough long to shoot nair monks situation. Make here stand out about it. The internet is replete with horrific larger than life. Chronicles of donald pee wee gaskins folks sees financial opportunities to report that peewee raked babies and some of the wilder stories. Tell the meanest man in america was also a cannibal. Eating is victims after he murdered them. No law enforcement brought any charges or evidence like this official legal proceedings and jim beattie refutes them in his writings and retelling of his personal experiences with peewee. He often speaks of a kindness. A civil exchange of sorts. It can be difficult to see a monster as a man but was more interested. In discovering truth and redemption then reveling in gaskin. Savagery the media which relies on larger than life coverage just couldn't gel with embodies approach to the story reported to them that he related to me acts of kindness which pleasantly surprised me. Newspaper and television reports sought gyms input on the whole saga. But he wasn't melodramatic to suit media needs for vibrant. The top stories. Peewee wasn't a deranged killer always on the prowl. For his next victim he was seen and heard in known in his community. Peewee weaved his associates and family members into his crimes and he didn't hesitate to kill anyone who would get in his way I think a lot of us have had a moment that seems to change. Everything changes this. Ever present force shaping our lives but how does it really work. That's the at the center of my new podcast. A slight change of plans. I'm dr shankar. I'm a cognitive scientist. Who spent the last two decades studying. How our minds work and how we change in this podcast be having intimate revealing conversations. You'll hear stories from tiffany. Haddish hillary clinton and casey muskrats. You'll also hear from a woman who left a religious cults and a black jazz musician who convinced dozens of kkk members. To lease the clamp. All of that have lived through extraordinary. Change i hope you'll come away thinking differently about change in your own way. Listen to a slight change of plans on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you like to listen. Fifty years in the future. Texas is racked by civil war. Follow the tale of three people struggling to make their way in this chaotic world of war zones militias and extremists introducing after the revolution. A new fiction podcast based on the novel by journalist robert evans he'd grown up in see back before the lakewood blast back when people at still called doubts hard hitting fiction from correspondent who's reporting on civil wars in iraq ukraine and syria and from the front lines of an uprising in portland oregon. This is not war. Not really your job is to help your people children of peace and plenty understand what is going on here. You must teach them the language of war. Get a glimpse into a dark future. That will hopefully never come to pass. Maybe i'll work a straight job again. Not too soon though. He thought the least this working. Do this last long enough to get me out of texas listened to after the revolution on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your guests. Pewee smith thrived in the media. His recordings for book called the final truth were accepted his altima testimony for the public. At least law enforcement never corroborated the stories from that book beyond those for which they were legal proceedings p we had open access to the recording equipment and several hours of tape to fill with all sorts of stories in claims and when the author turned on his recorder he just let p speak here's ceaseless chandler and holly gatling recalling weeds image recording. I think that made you really feel a part of being near around. Peewee because you actually heard. His voice over recordings hearing was believing the recording scape the stories authority and or of testimony. And then the author boldly called it the final truth a mass murderer well. I don't believe that. I really don't believe he killed that many people when they're talking about some way up in the hundreds peewee gas in was clever. I think he had a very high. Iq was he smart to me. Smart people live normal productive lives. They don't go around killing people. So our describe peewee as clever and cunning. Now when he was in prison he would call her. Barnes and say i'm gonna lead you to another body but the sheriff always told me said he believed him. He just thought he wanted to get out of prison. And that's what he would do to go out to look for more bodies we got investigators to take him out of prison on several occasions on the promise he'd lead them to another body a body they could take off of their files sheer billy. Barnes couldn't pass up on the possibility that he would actually deliver a body. Here's investigator ira parnell. Thank you lucia to make leash. Look bad look smart. And i don't think it was anywhere. Close that many more there might be a few more. But i don't think it was in your near where he was claiming that do not believe that i know of seventeen that they were gonna tribute to him that he killed over his whole life his web of stories at the laws attention. And the media's my interest in getting a master's degree completely unrelated to journalism politics was trying to figure out what makes people do these evil things first of all. I recognized him as a human being. And i was never afraid to talk to him. I'm pretty savvy. I know i'm being manipulated. I was certainly willing to listen to what he had to say. My feelings about him were actually sore of clinical like somebody doing a psychological evaluation. Which i certainly wasn't doing but those thoughts were running through my mind. When is he lying. When telling the truth why did he think that he had the right to do these things that he did. I think he thought of themselves as a legend in his own mind. I think that's a common personality trait with a lot of people with criminal personalities. Here's mark and jim beattie junior. Like so many people involved in this story they help shed greater detail in understanding and explaining this sorta tail and it central character. Um first reaction is identifying. He is a bit of a coward. The words taking the lives of young people probably little bit easier than taking on a grown person killed playground people but there were a lot of young people that were killed. The age of his victims used to bother me especially the young girls and actually get some point. I might have mentioned that to dad. What's the deal. How keep going on and on and on in the news. If if there's a young girl missing somewhere guess what pull all the plugs. That's find out what's going on dad explained to me. These are kids on the edge. Kids on the periphery. These are marginalized individuals in many ways. And frankly totally one days. They just don't have a whole lot of people that care about. If they've got a foul feely. Well you really playing with fire because you have nobody to care about. You defend your. It didn't seem to me that peewee ever woke up in the morning going. Okay the little fox mighty kill. I think it seemed like he might have woken up in the morning and gone. You know what that thing that happened yesterday. I'm going to have to kill that guy for that. That's what margaret o'shea cover pee wee gaskins for the state columbia south carolina's daily newspaper absolutely believed that he was one of those people in this world. Who felt nothing much for others. He considered killing as something that his needs and was not overly concerned about how much he hurt somebody or the people who might have loved them in this them after they were gone in fact in the case of his own niece and her friend whom he killed together his family was distraught that they disappeared and was worried about them and he just casually went through life. Saying you know god is. They ran away. Janus kirby and patricia all brooke disappeared in december nineteen seventy janus. Fifteen was pee. Wee's niece daughter of his sister. I knez gaskins kirby. They moved from the area near wee's burial field just eight weeks before the girls went missing. Janus was classmates with patricia. And all's brooke at edmonds highschool kidneys janice. Kirby loved her in whatever way he could love somebody people at one thing. He didn't like about her and she was gone. These girls showed up at pee. Wee's trailer your prospect and hung out for several days around christmas nineteen seventy. He was living there at the time and known as a festive guy who hosted parties and the girls were on the lookout for some fine. They were at his house together and they were on drugs for some reason drugs. Were one thing that was sort of against code if he had one that had something to do with it and they had a fight and he beat both girls to death but it seems to me that there had have been more to it than that. What strikes me about his victims walk that most of them however long or however briefly. They knew him didn't have a whole lot of reason to be afraid of that. They knew of. I mean they were not aware of his activities outside the sphere that they shared with him. But it didn't take much to hang at the truth about him and then they work on as part of his plea deal to avoid the electric chair pee. Wee told authorities to look for concrete slab in the area around his killing fields. And they'd find a body. Ira parnell was there with one. Peewee attorneys when authorities found patricia. Aldus body in nineteen seventy five five years after she went missing killing us. Attorney about body under cement slab and one deputies live not a half mile cross. Feel from where this old house spot was rector brains figuring out where a cement slab was. Bill press but he said by little fraud daughter. Little house here by me up there was a cover for time vassal fabulous one over. There took a proper moved seeing that lead over china light and there was her whole skeletons right there in the tank thankfully it was an old set. Been in quite a while. Deliver sexton down. Look back to do. His very examination. Gathered up everything initially and then jato telling you say petain trump everything else out of the tank with draft a stream at the field as well as out our high school ring with her initials in it which allowed us to make a delegation on her several weeks. After her body was found the tricia brooks family buried her remains. Unfortunately authorities didn't find pee. Wee's niece janus right away. He killed those two girls on the same day and he took the body out patricia brooke and stuffed it in septic tank but for some reason he decided he couldn't do that to his niece so way baird was somewhere else genus. Kirby's body was found fifty yards away in an area adjacent to the gaskin family. Graveyard to some. It seem to try to give her the mere semblance of a family burial. Not a lot surprises me about what people are capable of doing. And at that point in my life. I had written about many many others who had done distasteful things illegal and grizzly things. I was a little surprised that people call him a serial killer. he didn't have an m. o. Heated navy trigger or desire to be met in. You know that that figured in all of his killing Jim babies enthusiasm never wavered. He wrote as quickly as he could during his regular meetings with peewee his steely eyed focus produced a multifaceted picture of this mass murderer. That started as a really bad guy. But of telling the story requires that you share every side The main characters life and regardless of how heinous crimes are you could point to some things in life that at least made these things possible that does not exonerate or what he is done for what he did but it does share the full story of pd and where his life ultimately took him. I think he's crafty. Developed as a tortured and abused little boy. I think that he became so clearly defensive as he told me mr jim i never shed a tear after age seventy so. I decided that day in the front yard on that sunday afternoons that they never would see me cry again and he said nobody ever. Did i think the song those terrible terrible years of child abuse mock prayer was that through. What i rose where i studied i learned is one child. One child would have been spared from ever becoming another pee wee gaskins and as a society and as people rather than hold this individual monster period. Hold him up as a monster and see why and how we could do otherwise with a four year old little boy who lived eighty miles from a little boy his same age who turned out a little bit differently. Owned because of the way ours loved and raised. And i believe that love conquers all pee wee. Gaskins was not. My friend is a joint production from iheartradio and doghouse. Pictures produced and hosted by jeff keeping executive producers courtney freeze and noah brown written by jim roberts courtney freeze and terry james at it mix and sound design by jeremiah kalani prescott music composed by diamond street productions spencer gar an end newbury special. Thanks to jim and anita beatty additional thanks to the university of south carolina moving image research collections and the university of south carolina. Changes this ever force shaping our lives but how does it really work. I'm dr maya shankar. And that's the question. I'm trying to answer in my new podcast from pushkin industries. A slight change of plans. I'll be having revealing conversations with a bunch of folks. Some names recognized and others not but all of them have lived through extraordinary change. I hope you'll come away thinking differently about change in your own life. Listen to a slight change of plans on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast. Beware the monster. You're running from mike. The yourself introducing more detail on new fiction thriller podcast from the creative minds of blunt. House encrypt tv. One month after two brothers disappear. In the shenandoah forest the lone survivor of the perry merges starving disoriented and traumatized. Listen to more dale on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

gaskins wee gaskins jim beattie donald henry gaskins Jim beattie Wee ron burgundy apple pee wee gaskins Gaskins jim campbell south carolina iheartradio holly gatling Biggie mick jagger Mike garcia Norma tanega eddie keel
Stayin' Alive

Pee Wee Gaskins Was Not My Friend

50:19 min | 4 months ago

Stayin' Alive

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Access to the biggest and a gain iheartradio was number one for podcast. But don't take our word for it. By ernie alesia on high heart radio. At whatever you get your podcast presented by pepsi. Zero sugar. Peewee gaskins murdered. Eight people between nineteen seventy and nineteen seventy five whom he then buried near prospect south carolina by nineteen seventy six. It was time for peewee to face the consequences of his brutal actions. He had been arrested and charged with murder and prosecutors wanted the death penalty. You're going to have a death penalty pee wee gaskins doesn't get put to death. Who should he was one of those people we would say he did not deserve to live. I felt a great need to try to tell the whole story. Eight people found buried all at the hands of this little short guy. He said i was the last person to see her alive. Then i gasped from iheartradio app. Doghouse pictures. This is peewee. Gaskins was not my friend. I'm jeff keating police and prosecutors convinced he had been involved in killing eight friends family members and associates over six years but convicting pee wee gaskins and sentencing him to the electric chair would prove more difficult than they would imagine. Eight bodies eight victims and eight chances to get convictions. They would start with the strongest case. The murder of dennis bellamy. Here's jim beattie to remind us of how it went down. Did his bellamy. It was the first person that he was tried for killing. First of all he was older brother of two other of period's victims. Diane bellamy neely and john henry knight he bullied want nearly beat him up. Put him in the hospital several times and he was one of those people that peewee would quickly say he did not deserve to live. He was a evil person in p. Was judging jerry on his mellanby right right there in his yard he pistol whipped has bellamy he was a fierce enemy of the pistol whipping occurred when dennis showed up drunk and caused a scene. Cussing groping women at one p was popular weekend cookouts before then walter. Dennis p johnny night were all part of a theft ring water hidden it big in early one thousand nine hundred seventy five after stealing a collection of close to twenty valuable browning in franchi shotguns. Local pawnshops knew better than to buy these obviously stolen guns. So instead walter and dentists struck a deal with wee who served as their banker. Dennis was going to give walter afford falcon. That walter was eager to drive. P would sell the guns pay. Dennis for the ford falcon take a fee for the transaction. And returned the rest of walter. Everybody agreed on the deal but had to wait because selling stolen. Guns was risky. Peewee was patient and waited for the right time to sell. Unfortunately dinner had little patients especially when he was owed money from pee wee gaskins after bit of drinking one night dentist declared it was time to get those guns back for peewee. And he demanded walter. N- johnny go with them. A night. that dennis bellamy was killed was a rainy night. I believe in the fall and denis and walter neely and younger brother. John henry night were all in north charleston. They met at the pool. Room and dennis announces. We're going to prospect. I'm going to get the money for those guns that i gave to. You alternate peeves sale. I'm going to have the money or the guns tonight. And of course. Dennis ballet with drinking heavily and they got in the old pickup truck and they drove to prospect. Visit to gaskins compound made dennis tickies boots off before. He came in the house because it was muddy and raining and he came in and they add words. And that's no problem. We'll go get the gluons and john renite at walter nearly remain in the trailer watching johnny carson on tv and dennis and p. We go down in the dark. To look at the stash of mostly rivals ran new rifles. Which of course had long been sold and p. We didn't have the media. Didn't have any money for his ballet. Was there not far from the huge oak tree. He shot him in the back of the head with a pistol later. He takes walter and john henry knight back down to the area where dennis had been killed. Please let's go many. Swayed we go back. And yet the guns head back and peewee stops under a huge oak tree and he says to john. Henry take this flashlight put on that big bottom limit this. He's wouldn't that be a perfect place for us to pull engines and re hauling inches in store cars of course in john henry and i said that'd be great place that limo holding the engine and pow. That was the end of john. Henry knight. Johnny night was murdered at the same place as older brother. Both shot in the back of the head. Dennis was killed because he wanted the money he was owed. And because peewee hated him. But why john henry knight caving killed him because he was present. That's why johnny was killed. And what did p we say to his. Good friend walter hall. That murder was probably the tipping point for walter. Neely just one month later. He cracked under pressure and took police to that. Whole it was the first of four shallow graves. They would unearth week. Here sled investigator. Ira poor nel. Who was the firearm forensic expert charged with tying the weapon used to the murders i found were the last two that the bear down people who could associate with me thank p we had with him in other words either. The handgun rascal whereas Last two boys both of them shot in. Hey with thirty two pistol at he had with him and interestingly enough it was a little beretta thirty two semi automatic pistol with taking an electric pencil and written his name on saturday. Gun as a signature. Almost find day that was obviously has done because while should you put his name on. This was the same gun p. We had with him when he was arrested while taking a taxi. Cab to catch a bus down for tupelo mississippi. So we've got about his. What was left of them and got them big zoomed. That charleston was sled plane. Big bullet which brought him back to colombia and cash. Fired the gun we had from philly was able to say that those bullets came out of the boys head. Were both fat by that particular pissed and that was really some of the only kids but abbott assume because a lot of them were stabbed in the other really undetermined because he deteriorated so badly until there was not much left to look yet no bull fragments or anything left in the rest of it was complex and intricate case in one thousand nine hundred seventy five. There were no sophisticated computer databases or dna testing for cases. Like this the only hard evidence that directly tied pee wee gaskins to any of the victims. Was these bullets. This made it easy. Which case the prosecutors would pursue. I on may seventeenth nineteen seventy six twelve th circuit solicitor. Ken some aford charge. Donald henry gaskins for the murder of dennis bellamy and some. I sought the electric chair as punishment for the heinous crime. This is deadly sleepy. The assistant solicitor. Who worked with kim. Some effort to present the case against peewee. Well it was as much public interest as you could find eight people found buried and more suspected kill but not found all at the hands of this little short guy. Peewee the evidence we were presenting court started with peewee himself and his family. But there was substantiated. Rumor that p we had bragged about his graveyard in his part of the woods. He had no witnesses other than himself. That i recall. He had to combat the fact that we had his own family connecting him with boys his history of having the graveyard the ballistics tools. The digging graves found in his possession during the trial. Prosecutors presented solid evidence. They showed the jury a pair of muddy shoes belonging to dennis. bellamy founded. wee's trailer bellamy was buried. Shoeless that rainy night. Five witnesses said they last saw the brothers together on the evening of the murder and one said walter. Neely was with them. Mrs ethel night mother of the two victims denison. Johnny broke down in tears when asked to identify the bloody church. That belonged to dennis. Ira nell testified that ballistics match the bullets that killed dennis bellamy to pee. Wee's handgun to in the head and one in the heart shirli-ann gaskins testified against her father. Shirley lived in prospect with her husband. Howard evidence just across the road from pee wee's prospect town. He had a house trailer very close to his daughter's house trailer and then there was third house trailer. That peewee led some of his younger girlfriends us. We lived in north charleston. Most of the time but his prospect home and it's dozen acres or so is where restored stolen goods and where he killed and buried many of his victims when his daughter took the stand she placed him at the scene of the crime at the time of the murder. When asked about the murder weapon the gun etched with pee wee on the side. She said quote that was his baby in quote. Here's deadly celebi. Describing p was called to testify so he took the stand in the very cool and collected manner had a a response a seemingly logical answer to everything that implicated him and yet during the testimony. One of the most telling. Memories of the trial was when There was paul's he reached in his pocket and pulled out what appeared to be notes as if during his time awaiting trial in jail he had come up with what would be the most plausible explanation other than his guilt. Peewee denied everything and tried to pin the blame on walter neely but the florence county jury didn't buy. It took them just forty seven minutes to return a verdict of premeditated murder. The verdict came with an automatic death sentence and an automatic appeal to the state supreme court. A few years later p we can fight it to jim He said yes. I killed him and they said. I'd shoot him every day if i had the opportunity and when he told me this he was rigid. Look right through you when he said this and it was really frightening to hear him. Say those words old. He regretted very much. That johnny night had to die. He didn't say sad he said. 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Promo code. Fits at checkout. That's fifteen percent off. The current offer with promo code fits at u. e. dot com slash bits June nineteen seventy two the. Us supreme court ruled the death. Penalty was illegal without new specific standards. They ruled that the death penalty violated the constitution's eighth amendment which safeguarded against cruel and unusual punishment. How boykin delivered this report on. The day of the ruling public opinion may be sharply divided on this issue as indicated by the supreme court's five to four split decision. Some people are likely to say that the decision came too late while others will say it is still too soon. Hell boykin channel ten news. The supreme court ruled that the death penalty was illegal without pacific standards on june twenty-ninth nineteen seventy two in the case furman versus georgia. In this argument from the case justice potter stewart asked attorney anthony. Amsterdam a question here. That argument is it. Is this even even assuming that retribution. As a as a permissible ingredients aplenty. Even assuming rational people to conclude that the death sentence is the maximum deterrence with minimum unnecessary cruelty. That even assuming we're dealing with somebody who is not capable of being rehabilitated and carpal parts you say it is still violate if you ain't gonna that is correct here Following the firm in case in order to reinstate the death penalty states added new requirements to satisfy the eighth amendment to the constitution. This would prove hard to do for our story. This would mean the death sentence for gaskins would have to be put on hold so just in time for independence day on july second. Nineteen seventy four south carolina. Lawmakers passed a law that made the death sentence mandatory in most cases as it turns out pee. Wee gaskins got arrested and convicted of killing dennis. Bellamy in nineteen seventy six. His trial was based on that. Same independence day law and. He was automatically sentenced to death by electric chair. But this law had one major flaw it declared the death penalty was mandatory. The state supreme court would soon rule. You can't do that to meet the requirements of the us supreme court some discretion must be left to the judge and jury and the trial itself has to be separated from the sentencing phase known as a bifurcated trial so the determined lawmakers passed another law and the state supreme court ruled. It was good. The death sentence was back however they also said that the case against pee wee gaskins was subject to the law on the books at the time. He was convicted in other words. The court said you can't just go pass a new law and impose it on a guy already convicted under an old law. That old law was legal except for the death penalty part so while his conviction was good. His death sentence was not only the court ruled. There would be no do over p week. Askins would not die instead. He would get a life sentence for killing dennis. Bellamy here's attorney. Dick harpootlian explain. I tried my death penalty. Case in the fall of nineteen seventy six in south carolina at that time every murder trial. I charge murder face. The death penalty in west. The jury recommended mercy a prosecutor. Guiding thomas or rogers who soldiered for jackson got angry at awake at huddle house and shot and killed her. We picked jurado eleven o'clock on monday morning. He was sent to death on tuesday afternoon. No bifurcated drought. None other stuff that we think is routine today. The rogers case was the case. That our supreme us to overturn the death penalty here and we went to a bifurcated process guilt or innocence. Trial and then accenting crawl. With all kinds of constraints that have been mandated. By the united states supreme court once the furman versus georgia process went into a fac against three Party gaskins than each one of them went on far longer than very difficult in richmond. County here in columbia to get a death. Penalty always has been public sentiment towards capital punishment is constantly changing in part because the cruel and unusual punishment clause of the eighth amendment is controversial and vague. The courts are tasked with determining whether punishment reflects society's shifting attitudes over the years. There's been a sharp decline in supported the death penalty but in nineteen seventy four. A large portion of south carolinians still approved it following state versus rogers. There were nine requirements for death sentence in a capital case the two most relevant to this case stipulated that a juror could not be excused based on a pre existing attitude towards capital punishment and secondly a capital punishment. Trial must be separate from its sentencing phase. Here's the lead prosecutor from the case. Ken some aford discussing those requirements. As i interpreted the latest decision the court stated in that opinion as i do that it the defendant had been given a bifurcated trial that it would have been constitution. We still have a death penalty. Although it was declared invalid it was a procedure that the reason that would play it in ballot as i interpreted the decision. Apparently he did not understand these new stipulations beforehand. Perhaps this misunderstanding was prompted by moving quickly. After the state supreme court took away. Gaskins death sentence since gaskins could not be resentenced for the murder of dennis bellamy. The state quickly decided to try him for the murder of gianni night when choosing the jury for the case trial he did not keep in mind that same jury would serve in the sentencing trial so some referred approved a perspective juror during selection even though she was on record as opposing the death penalty. This misstep left an open door for peewee defense to push for a plea deal and since the prosecution had significantly reduced the odds of winning a death. It's in the case. Some referred needed to bargain here. State attorney dudley. Salih be speaking soon. After the plea was announced there was an interest and providing closure to the families of the victims of a other homicides and for that reason he was allowed to and a replay to those other homicides and receive a sentence of life in prison the confusion about which jurors would sit in the sentencing phase of the trial opened the door for a plea deal. Both sides would benefit from a deal where we told in return for avoiding the chair but the state needed assurance that peewee would be honest they also knew from experience. He could cheat a lie detector test. Here's jim beattie p. We mentioned to me lie detector test and then he concentrated on wiggling his right big toe. How'd you pee wee said. Oh you just think about your right. Big toe oh how you doing. But he beat the lie detector tests several times and he said that was his method knowing we had never failed a lie detector test some for decided to go a different route following the plea agreement gaskins attorneys and the prosecution had a meeting to discuss further terms. It was this meeting when peewee was unintentionally left alone in the sheriff's office with a gun in the desk drawer during a meeting break after resecure and calm. The state demanded that peewee undergo sodium amdahl to confirm his testimony to the murders sodium matale the drug commonly known as truth serum is a barbituate once thought to make people unable to censor themselves the belief. Was that those administer. The drug would be unable to lie in nineteen sixty three the. Us supreme court ruled that confessions produce by true serums were unconstitutional and therefore admissible over the years. Experts have generally agreed that these types of serums are not reliable for lie detection but since gaskins had already confessed to the murders there was little reason to suggest coercion. The controversial admission and plea deals announcement was not received well by everyone outside the courtroom. Here state representative ralph anderson a plea bargain arrangement between the solicitor and the attorneys for donald pee. Wee gaskins is an incorrect resolution of this particular case. I'm totally dissatisfied and dismayed with this kind of arrangement where a mass murderer who has pled guilty to a vicious crimes is now escaping the death penalty p we later discovered he may have not needed a plea deal because the state supreme court could have ruled. The death. sentence does not apply to any of the eight people he kills. Here's dick harpootlian bitter about that. Because his lawyers convinced him to tell about they didn't know about or had been on him and plead guilty to those in exchange for a guarantee sense as a practical matter. We probably could not have been prosecuted under the new debt. The law for crimes committed prior to that going into effect pee. Wee's logic was that his life sentence for murder would potentially make him eligible for parole at some point he had to know that the plea deal for eight consecutive life sentences with lesson those odds and there are many of these conversations talking about during the kid everybody. She would kids when i go for parole. They understand i'm rehabilitated. I mean just a very senechal prochet using his family to try to get out again. It was not unheard of people now not being murdered as he had but not unheard of people get paroled in ten or twelve or fourteen year so he was working on that Confession i love. Kathy comics cabbie guides comic strip chronicled middle-class american womanhood day by day for over three decades and between acts and irving's came sharp commentary on women's struggles in the workplace rampant reagan eric consumerism and predatory diet culture. So why don't we remember it that way my name is jamie loftus host of lolita podcast in my year in mensa and i wanted to take a look back at this comic. What it says about late twentieth century. America what it doesn't say and the criticism that came with being vulnerable in the newspaper on a daily basis for three decades spoiler alert. There's a ton to talk about and yes. I'll be talking to cathy herself. So listen to act cast by jamie loftus. That's a. c. k. c. a. s. t. starting on june twenty eighth on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Are you one tree hill. Obsessed our brooke peyton and haley. Your goals joins sophia bush. Hillary burton and bethany joy lens on the drama queens podcast to relive re love and rewatch every one tree hill. Minute there are no fans like one tree hill fans. There is no family like our family. So we got together to do a rewatch podcast to relive the show. As so many of you have each week. Sofia hillary and bethany joy dissect every episode and deliver. Every must no detail. I feel like it's a walk down memory lane that also might be a little bit of a stumble down memory lane. I mean cocktail sometimes might be stumbling ups. The downs the loves the losses experienced one tree hill. All over again. There's so much cool stuff to imagine for them but before we can go forward we gotta go back to the beginning. Listen to drama queens on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts As part of his plea deal pee. Wee gaskins confessed to murdering victims found in his burial field He also confessed to several other murders. That were corroborated by investigators. Here's deadly salih. Who was on the prosecution team. What we found the victims then thing started snowballing. They all tied back to a common reference point and that was pretty weak. Gaskins margaret o'shea who wrote numerous articles about pee wee. Gaskins talks about how the media covered the victims. I had dealt with people who've committed horrible crimes or families of victims from early on a great neagh to try to tell the whole story. And i don't know that the whole story a newspaper setting really never get stole. There's not much ink on a daily basis in that kind of business. But i always felt. There's more to this than there's always more to it. When dealing with peewee during his confessions he admitted to killing pet. Cutting no in one thousand nine hundred seventy. Here's a neat. Abadie discussing the confounding painful story of her death. I remember these very very peewee was the source of the information that jim wrote and autopsy pictures which i did not look at the peg cutting story which is sort of peripheral but very political pay-cut. No was thirteen when she went missing. Friday december eighteenth nineteen seventy. She was walking to her younger sister school to have lunch five blocks away from her own school which had led out for the day. She never reached her sister. School peg was the daughter of state representative. james cut. No and margaret pool cut no sumpter an associated press story rain in local newspapers quoting sumpter police who saw no evidence of foul play patrols from several local state authorities participated in the search for the girl sled investigator ira parnell and his dad bird. Parnell sumpter county sheriff. Were on the scene helicopters. Police on horseback and bloodhounds also searched for the girl. They scoured a four square mile area. The ap story said she was five to one hundred and thirty pounds with shoulder length brown hair and blue eyes. She was wearing a blue blouse white skirt and a polkadot sash. The next day december nineteenth sumpter police chief said they were assuming kidnapping so the fbi got involved. Investigators detailed report by class me that he had seen the girl on friday afternoon. Approximately fifteen minutes after she left her house in the backseat of a car with a man and a woman in the front seat. The police said they had confidence in his eye witness account. Her disappearance dominated the news and south carolina. Local and national wire services wrote numerous articles covering every aspect of the investigation on december. Twenty third a five thousand dollar reward was offered for her safe. Return one week later. On december thirtieth nineteen seventy two airmen from nearby shaw air force base found peg cut nose body fourteen miles away for where she was last. Seen the airmen were trail riding in the remote northern portion of manchester state forest and found her in the landfill near a motorcycle trail pathologists from the south carolina's medical university made a preliminary on-site investigation before removing the body from the scene and it was taken to charleston for complete autopsy. They soon reported that she'd been strangled and her skull had been crushed by a heavy object. Her funeral was held on january. Second nineteen seventy-one more than five hundred. People attended pallbearers. Included officers from sled the highway patrol the sumpter police. The governor governor elect of south carolina as well as the president of clemson university since pegues maternal grandfather. Robert pool was the immediate past president of clemson thirty days later. James cut no advanced bill in the south carolina house of representatives to mandate fingerprinting all children in the state. Here he is talking to wwl. Tx in south carolina in nineteen seventy-one apprentice of children is necessary for their own protection. Might've the instance of the Fact that my daughter was missing for a period of our days. We did not have any idea about who had or what we're doing to and there was a good possibility that she could have never been found where we finally did locate now. Had we found the suspect with her latent prints in numbers on his car. We would not have been able to have identified them as her print that she had no record of fingerprints pryatta. This uh more than fifty days after pet cut no was reported missing a sumpter newspaper called the item ran a front page story that provided updates on the case police reported more than thirty leads. They were working and that they were meeting three times a week with multiple state and local authorities. They polygraph twenty four suspects not all of whom could have been able to prove their activities on the eighteenth of december. The article mentions of widely circulated drawing of a suspect that failed to amount to anything in the five thousand dollar reward. Did not increase the number of callers to the tip. Line so sheriff parnell. The public was being as helpful as they could on january twenty eighth nineteen seventy one. William pierce robbed a service station in baxley georgia killed. The store owner and beat her five year old granddaughter. He was spotted by. I witnessed leaving the scene and arrested several weeks later. After hours of interrogation junior pierces he was known confessed to that murder. And nine others in georgia and the carolinas. It was a stunning collection of murders. The sheriff her that day one at mission was to peg cut knows killing authorities in georgia opened a trial for his last killing in baxley. in september nineteen seventy-one. They presented eyewitness testimony and belongings of the victims found in pierce car and department. They got a conviction and life imprisonment. And they lined up the next case. During that trial he recanted his confession saying he was forced into them while he was drunk and that his miranda rights had been violated regardless he was convicted and received another life sentence he was extradited in nineteen seventy three to south carolina where he was convicted of killing peg cut. No other trials and convictions followed the south carolina. Supreme court supported a lower court. Decision and rejected pierces appeals for a new trial in nineteen seventy four based on new testimony from witnesses. One of those witnesses was carry. Lenore from horatio south carolina. She was the town's postmistress and she and her husband claim they saw cut. No two days after pierce was said to have killed the girl. Lenore was a member of a twelve person. Group who called themselves that concern citizens of sumpter county and their main focus was trying to disprove the case against junior pierce. They believed he was innocent and work to find new evidence to get him a new trial. Carry lenore was cited in an article in the charlotte observer in nineteen seventy saying that pierces conviction was quote the biggest miscarriage of justice in the southeast and maybe in the whole united states my motive for justice is stronger than my motive for sympathy in quote she even kept autopsy and other photos displayed in our post office to keep the story alive and so that others could see the travesty. She saw she based her theories on the slow rate of decomposition. She said quote. It's just common sense. There's no way that body could have lain in those woods for two weeks in quote sled agents visited her post office with the court order for her to hand over all pictures and documents she had about cut knows death. She refused and later appeared before the judge who issued the order steadfastly refusing to turn over anything. The judge had her arrested and she spent five days in the sumpter county correctional center. She was released and the south carolina. Supreme court rendered a reverse and remanded decision that required law enforcement to return to her all evidence taken from lindores business. The concerned citizens got reignited again in nineteen seventy seven as pee wee gaskins claim from the witness stand in the murder trial for barnwell. Yates that he had in fact killed pick cut no specifically peewee claimed he killed the girl as a contract hit for law enforcement. Man here he is talking about pay cut. Now you're not helping to junior pearson. tried him for latin everything He just had an unlucky man. Google paid with drug taken to a senior block. How about ten miles empty as reading leaving. I read ten dollars month without in the east side of and it keeps them two and other star a van. I had several cars parked out layer. Jump house you will cut. No peewee said he was approached by two men who said they wanted her out of the way that the girl was still alive at the time he claimed to have raped her choked her with the scarf that she was then dumped her body where it was later found peewee also claimed sheriff parnell had questioned him about the murder in nineteen seventy and even administered peewee a lie detector test which he passed without a problem in nineteen eighty p. We talked jim beattie about the murder. Peewee confessed that he killed pay-cut no then he retracted. That said that he did not kill cut. No in my conversation with him. He said i was the last person to see her alive. But i gasped. I said wee you mean you. He said i did not bury her alive. I'll never forget that gives me chills. He said i did not bury her alive. They brung her to me and she died. And i said who brought her to you and he said we don't need to go. No farther into that. Mr jim this is for your protection. Oh no authorities believed pee. Wee's nineteen seventy seven confession. Bird parnell said that piece. Confession was quote preposterous. He was a very vindictive man and he's warning publicity in quote. Ira parnell and dick carpool leeann. Also recalled unexpected and unsubstantiated confession. Why remember that well. They didn't have the big debt. That was junior pierce all the way to start wait. It wouldn't pay we style. Plus we had witnessed that saw junior at the body dumpsite to be re. He basically claimed he killed pet kutno to try to as co pay junior. Pierce always been some bad about that. If you read bought the final truth you know. There ain't much true in there based on my independent knowledge of what he talks about margaret. O'shea in holly gatlin also remember pee. Wee's confession he had killed pigging cutting. Oh the daughter of a state legislator junior pierce was convicted of that there was confusion and discrepancy between the forensic reports and what was found but he remembered enough about coup was flair to be both truthfully devious. If that accepts. I can tell you one thing. He did not kill pay-cut cut now. I know that for fat and he was trying to take the rap for junior peers in the years following the murder in nineteen seventy carry. Lenore had filled her home with scrapbooks letters photos of petitions that she said all pointed to pierce's innocence others in the continued to have doubts about the case. One of the jurors who returned guilty verdict in the pierce trial told reporters in nineteen seventy seven. That quote i was never convinced that he was guilty. My opinion hasn't changed. Since i should have stayed in there and hung the jury in quote with pee wee's confession and other. Lingering doubts about pierce's conviction. Though lenore and other concerned citizens demanded an investigation they actually got a hearing with the sumpter county grand jury who would hear from county residents who had information on grievances eighteen people registered to be hurt twelve others were subpoenaed including the georgia sheriff who got junior pierces confession and pee wee gaskins himself. The grand jury deliberated for a month after the hearing and ultimately cleared law enforcement of any wrongdoing and decided not to reopen the case. Lenore continued to display evidence of personal crusade in her business. But junior pierces appeals were denied and he was serving eight hundred eighty years for his murders when he died in prison in the spring of two thousand and twenty p. We might not have killed peg cut. No but he found a way to be a part of the story another story that he was definitely a part of involved his theft. Ring a rotating door of women and girls and this thing called love pee wee. Gaskins was not. My friend is a joint production from iheartradio and doghouse. Pictures produced and hosted by jeff keeping executive producers courtney to freeze and noah brown written by jim roberts courtney freeze and terry james at it mix and sound design by jeremiah kalani prescott music composed by diamond street productions spencer gar and ian. Newberry special. thanks to jim. And anita additional thanks to the university of south carolina moving image research collections and the university of south carolina. It's girl simone. Jones finisher some info about new podcast. The what hip. Hop questions legends enlists. Each week the what poses an unanswered yet nagging question discussing hip hop circles. And we help you find the answers. That's right you don't wanna miss it each and every monday you could catch the what on iheartradio apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. World is filled with stories but the best ones that the made up ones. And that's why there's this is. Americans live than new improvise comedy. Podcast from will ferrell's big money players network theaters. And i'm andy harris. Join us every week as we use our trustee random sentenced generator to us creating a series of scenes. Before your very ears. What will happen. What will we learn a lean. Nothing will it be funny so this this is americans live a new comedy podcast from welfare. Big money players network. Listen to this. As americans live on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Shocking Last Words

Pee Wee Gaskins Was Not My Friend

39:50 min | 3 months ago

Shocking Last Words

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Implicated jim beattie in the nineteen eighty two assassination of death inmate. Rudolph tyner when poisoned snuck into. The prison didn't work. Gaskins con jim into mailing him fifty feet of wire that he used to detonate the bomb. That blew off timers head mortified at his unwitting involvement in the murder denied from ever communicating with we again and concern for his family. Jim ditched the book. He was writing about pee. Wee and the family moved from south carolina for a fresh start as the baby's began this new phase of their lives. We sat on death row. Awaiting his fate was proponents of the death penalty. Believe it or not accept his own and when that first bolt hit him she jumped out of her seat screen grand slow but the grand yes. There's nobody's fran from iheartradio at doghouse pictures. This is gashed my friend. My name is jim beattie. And i'm jeff keating's The peewee saga left a full impression on everyone in the baby family. Jim was nearly finished with the manuscript about the life and times of pee wee gaskins when he heard the shocking news about peewee spinal murder. I learn from the newspaper era. That few we gaskins had committed this murder of rudolph tyner and quite frankly. My first thought was wow. There goes my manuscript. I somehow always wanted to see some good or something worthwhile and yaskin's himself and i spent so many hours winning finding out that there were human traits that no long ever mentioned are ever talked about so when i heard what had happened i realized our never get to visit him again. jim was barred from visiting the prison for a second time in his life. The i was as a child when two inmates killed prison. Captain in a failed attempt to assassinate his grandpa wilson the prison warden the second as a forty two year old professor when peewee implicated him in the murder of rudolph. Tyner these events heavily on gem and in spite of anita's encouragement he didn't have the heart to finish the book. I said it just looks like the while the book can't and here he's martyred again and she really was very consoling and she always has been with this entire project right. We discussed that and she said oh. No the book. That's not over but i did put her aside not only did. Jim put the manuscript on the shelf but he and anita decided it was time to move. We visited atlanta. Every christmas loved it. We i worked at georgia tech homeless right away in their grant division. I wrote grants all my adult life. It was just something that i knew how to do. Talk three freshman english classes and the wonderful western. That i think they called it to one. Those are the only three courses that i taught at georgia state always console my students and tell them that they were not little always full on the campus. Hard times instructor. I left georgia state to teach it. As wonderful place called view it was a high. It's bible college then. It became the university of tax reform. Stop teaching in. I had a full time. Tenured job at beulah heights did hard work all so we went to the open door community which is legendarily you star in. It's opening up atlanta to homelessness as an issue in their offering shelter A bitter winter day in one thousand nine hundred eighty five proved life changing. We were volunteering at the open door community on a saturday taken. Our children to do their community. Did the mother walked in and she had this blonde blue eyed baby in her arms so i just reached out and she thrust him into my arms. He was dripping wet with no diaper but he was young. I couldn't tell how he wants. He looked old enough to be walking but he couldn't walk because he hadn't learned and he smiled the whole time it was cold. His eyes were running. Newsroom me with point years and it was freezing cold that day benign degrees and she asked me to come over and she puts to me to take and i took him any smell like a urinal and pulling nasal ears and his big blue eyes. Were so gorgeous but running nose just a mess so when she got ready to leave. She grabbed him took him out tied him in a metal stroller with a rope of rags and he was going back out in this bitter cold. Freezing weather with no cap knows scarf no gloves. Nothing and his hands will read his face with wind. Burn from the cold and he reached back not at me but you know the warmth i'm sure and she slapped him and said bad boy and i just stood there. Weeping fell myself looking for this little mom and baby on the streets. And so i call the tv stations. You got to do something about this baby. Smothered the baby's gonna die outlet and unbeknownst to me they call defects and cut effects and defects custody of him and called me. And said you put your money where your mouth is. We have a baby and we need you to take him now tonight and anita. Call me out georgia state working. She said can we have a baby this weekend. And i said. I don't know but i'll certainly give it a try. And she said that's not what i mean so. I ride my motorcycle under the driveway and our little house on. Moore's mill road and i opened the door and here comes this little toddler toward me. Any put sounded alarms when he gets to me. And i picked him up. Remember to my grave is little hot hand on the back of my neck. And i walked into the living room and said to the worker there who had brought him holy shit sure enough he never left and we immediately got into the adoption track Adopting a homeless child inspired and change jim and anita. While looking to save a toddler from the freezing streets anita met members of an ad hoc group formed by atlanta mayor. Andrew young after seventeen people on the street froze to death in nineteen eighty one. This group soon became the metro atlanta task force for the homeless and jim and anita were the first two people hire to run the nonprofit leadership positions. They held for over thirty years. As the nonprofits executive director anita opened the doors wide to those others cast aside former atlanta mayor. Andrew young said i needed didn't just adopt a child. She adopted thousands of people whom she accepted responsibility for jim. Work for the task force taught at beulah heights and return to his passion. As a writer he authored. A faith-based english grammar book called sacred ground that he used to teach adults in preparation for ged. Sam's i learned through peewee an entire level of societies. That i didn't know anything about and then from there. We grew into our contract with homeless people. I didn't dream. That people live like this and i didn't dream that there would be an myriad of our society who totally left out but i learned of a world of people that i would have never been introduced to not been those interviews would be we gaskins letting go of the book and letting go of the story who would be difficult for jim. Of course there was a lesson jim. Beattie learned through his fifty plus interviews with a murderer dubbed the meanest man in america is nobody's friend. Do you wonder where your food comes from. More and more people to america's corn farmers work hard every day to grow a crop that you can be proud to serve your family. And they're doing it with an eye toward sustainability caring for water air soil and resources that fuel healthy families and more sustainable products. Take a look to find out how farmers in rural america work to make life better for all of us from cities to their rural communities. Learn more at nc g. a. dot com in cg a a commitment to the future. 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Our brands dot com written that so many people south carolina where i grew up. Love the sizzle. The electric chair pee wee. Did he believed that people deserve to die for things that they did and he of course proved that with his own behavior. He was a proponent of the death penalty believe it or not except his own. He of course was against that ad. Chicken just Right in applied to jail. Hold on pee wee gaskins murdered fourteen people. His victims were mostly poor with little education. They were friends. Lovers carnival workers crew members from his burglary and murder-for-hire eight of his victims were women and most of them under twenty five years old Janus caribbean patty aulsebrook. Were beaten to death. Peewee poison clyde dick's and through her body on the side of the road. He drowned pregnant doreen dempsey and her two year. Old biracial daughter robin. He shot dead. Is fred johnny sellers. He stabbed jesse. Judy supposedly the love of his life. He killed barnwell aches and a murder for hire diane bellamy and her boyfriend avery. Howard with a campbell. Soup knife. Peewee killed kim calkins with that same knife. Dennis bellamy and his brother johnny night and finally he blew up. Rudolph tyner in prison with a handmade bomb. Police discovered that pee wee gaskins murdered these victims. While they were searching for kim calkins he was a liar in killer and while he avoided the death sentence for murdering thirteen friends family and theft ring members he was a dead man walking for killing rudolph tyner and right before he was put to death. It was reported that donald pee wee gaskins tried to commit suicide by slashing his arms about twenty four hours before his slated execution. He was found unconscious but alive and receive twenty stitches. Here's brinda payton chase. She interviewed peewee son for the local news and was chosen to join pool of witnesses for the execution in nineteen ninety-one. I was working at the florence morning news. We found out that. I was going to get to witness the execution. Maybe a couple of weeks beforehand. We didn't have a lot of notice. So that's when we really started ramping up the coverage and kind of going back and review in all of the different cases that he was involved with a ticket. The night of the execution can still see a lot of that night in my mind because we met at the very front of the central correctional center in columbia south carolina. A rowdy crowd of about four hundred people in favor of the death penalty came to the broad river correctional institution to cheer pee wee gaskins death but some had personal reasons to come like family members of some of gaskins murder victims. Dennis bellamy johnny nights and dying neely. Why our sister and brothers killed longtime ago. So uniting bring them back it was midnight or so we met at the front and then they loaded us all onto a van and we were driven back. It felt like about a mile. We were driven to the very back. Where housed the electric chair. At the time we had to sign these forms and they put us in this room and it was almost like little miniature movie theater. Kind of venue. There were three or four rows of seating. And i was on the second row and the curtains were drawn at the time and then all of a sudden the curtains opened and this chair is just sitting there. And it was kind of ominous. At the time south carolina's electric chair was purchased in nineteen twelve. It's made of oak and copper and is the size of a standard rocking chair. Over the past hundred years it is killed more than two hundred fifty people including two women in a fourteen year old boy after we were seated. They brought him in a much. Smaller crowd gathered outside. The governor's mansion for a candlelight vigil against the death penalty and there were three or four employees. Who brought him into the room and it was amazing because at that point is shaved his head and he had put on a lot of weight in jail over the years. Any kind of like grandpa. It was kinda like oh my gosh. This man couldn't hurt anybody. What are they doing. And you kind of shuffled in. Because they had him in handcuffs and chains and he still had some bandages on his wrist where he had tried to kill himself and they put him in the chair and i've always wondered to this day if they had given him some type of sedative because he seemed way to calm a relaxed. But no last minute stays came through pee. Wee gaskins was strapped into the electric chair and his attorney sat right in front of me. Kelly and he gave her little thumbs up. Sign like i'm okay. It's okay 'cause she was visibly upset and she was just trying to hold it together when asked if he had any last words. Pee wee said. I'll let my lawyers talk for me. I'm ready to go. And then they put the covering over his head and started attaching the piece that went on top. That was going to electrocute him when they covered space. She really became very upset and i found the reaction of her more disturbing than blue. What was going on with him because she had worked with him for years trying to get him off and just get commuted to a life sentence they left the room and i believe there were three short volts of electric city that lasted second serves the first of all of went into him. The body does kind of reflects even though he was strapped down and then it was like all the breath went out of him. And then i believe they do to more like voltage 'electricity just to make sure it's complete. And there was no reaction at that. Then they came in and pronounced him. Dead trinity was turned onto the electric chair at one zero four that turn off at one. Oh six was pronounced dead at one ten. We have carried out this execution with as much humanity and dignity as possible. I think one of the most dramatic things for me and the most disturbing. I can still see it to this day. His attorney kelly was right in front of me and when that first volt hidden and she saw the reaction of him she jumped out of her seat and screamed and then faced away to the wall. She wouldn't look anymore. And that when witnesses were required to sign off on the death certificate and then driven back to the prison entrance in south carolina executed inmates or cremated then offered to any interested next of kin if not they are interred on prison. Grounds the jeering applause from spectators as his body was driven away seems to end the saga. That would forever leave. It's mark on the state pee. Wee gaskins ashes were claimed by his daughter and scattered near prospect south carolina in a rapidly changing world. People wonder more and more about where their food comes from and out was grown. The farmers who grow america's corn understand. How important this is and share the stories from our farms of how we are working to grow an incredible crop that can be an answer to sustainability questions and is run by men and women who value the air water soil and our natural resources. Just like you to find out more about how corn farmers are working to feed and fuel a vibrant economy and healthy planet visit. Nca dot com. Ncaa a commitment to the future in the land of diamonds. Mervyn king maker queen with a gorgeous nervous diamond before you go down on one knee visit. Movers diamond importers with a huge selection of high quality diamonds. At fair prices. Movers diamond is washington's. First choice admirers. You'll receive a free diamond education and no pressure to buy diamonds. Make a statement. They say you know value nine out of ten brides choose mavis. The tenth is still speechless. Check out reviews at movers. Diamonds dot com again. That's nervous diamonds dot com the greatest diamonds in the world of found at movies before you popular question visit movers. Diamond importers with a huge section of quality diamonds at fair prices. Mirvish diamond is the region's first choice. At mervyn's you'll receive a free diamond education and no pressure to buy at diamonds. Say you know value. Great diamonds and fabulous prices. It's the movers way. That's why i was honored by washington post as best place to buy a diamond check out of us at moves. Diamond dot com again. That's modus diamonds dot com. Jim in need to move their family. To south carolina in nineteen ninety-one nearly a decade before peewee was executed the day of execution. They were out of town. Anita our visiting our son. Frank in new york city and we happen to read a new york times Not knowing that execution had taken place the day before and the left hand column of the first page of the new york times article about the state having executed him and the reason that he made the front page of the new york times is that he was one of those rare an unbelievable instances where a white person was executed for killing a black person in america. This is highly unusual rare. But it happened that nineteen ninety. One new york times article is entitled rarity for. Us executions white dies for killing black of the nearly sixteen thousand executions carried out in the united states. Only thirty have been white to kill blacks. The paper reported in the history of south carolina. No white person had been executed for killing a black person since eighteen eighty. Who loved making the front page but not for the reason that it really happened. The ultimate irony is he experienced the justice of the state on him for an african american teenager The peewee saga was the biggest new story. In south carolina between nineteen seventy five in one thousand nine hundred ninety three and then again for the month leading up to his execution the whole saga impacted. Many people in this podcast. Holly gatling had been a young police reporter for the floor. It's morning news. Sometimes story is behind me. And then i got an email from the husband of doering. Dempsey's half sister and this was a few months ago. I really felt that we needed to find out where doreen was buried. And there was no information about that anywhere. So i spent a few years kind of looking into it a little bit and not wear is doreen spotty and the baby. They can't find a grave they can't find a paper trail for where the remains may be. Were they cremated. Are they in a funeral. Like i would really like to find a resting place. The names i think so. Chandler was a tv reporter in myrtle beach. This is something you read about or watch on television. But you don't actually think it happens in your area. Let me tell you. This happened in florence county and it was a real deal for mandate killed more than a dozen people and the bull margaret. O'shea was in her twenties a newspaper reporter in the late nineteen seventies even though bringing it up again is hurtful to some people it offers closure to others. It's definitely not a glorification of a criminal but something that kind of puts it into historical context. Why things happen sooner or later down the road eventually. We may understand it as a piece of a puzzle but my son was that i report was twenty two years old. When he searched pee-wee's burial ground not able to give the death penalty for all these approach because the strangeness and law at the time but he did do a murder for her of a convicted murderer himself in driven able to give them the death penalty and execute. So justice grand slow. But the grand. Quite tell you dick. Harpootlian was the lawyer who sought the death penalty for rudolph towners murder. Doing your job. If comes personal you need another frankly his execution one. Something i'd written down. I mean that prosecuted the case. I'd been invited. To go to the execution. I just thought that was ghoulish. So chief steward calls me and says pinon dead next morning world went back to normal throw as the world went back to normal jiminy. Nita were deeply involved working for homeless and underserved people and the peewee story would forever remain a family conversation. Here's jim beattie junior talking with his dad and sister leisa. There was a moment described to me the knife going through the neck and throat of one of the victims and how it gave as it went through it may have been the torso. I can't remember but there was something about the description of how p we killed that particular victim that had a great deal impact on me. That was jesse judy. He stabbed her abdomen and lifted up on the rest of my life. Without here that one mark beatty is one of the older children in the family here. He reminds his parents of a particular time. In gyms home office. One time it was late dr. Your desk and lamp was there. And i walked in your life. How about this. And you plop down a black and white. It was a police photo of. I'm not sure which young woman it was now. He had poured. Acid honor was almost unrecognizable as a person. Not thinking is kinda wanted to jolt me a little bit. You know. I was in college. It was okay. It wasn't like aid to happen with the young. Three needed won't protection. Because y'all were older and i'm not sure dare to look at autopsy vasquez Dad's desk any lack. Most of those horrible things in his desk never looked at it. I knew they were there. Never looked well somehow got hold of it. The young the winds were scared to death to pee wee. They pretended they could seem little tiny hands at the windows option but wasn't because dan did protect. Everybody protected a extremely well as we began the season of our true crime. Podcast series called crime traveller. Jim was back editing. The manuscript about pee wee gaskins. Su there were so many stories to tell so many characters to introduce and so many facts to flesh out the gym and anita talked through it regularly. Jim wrote and rewrote chapter after chapter with number two pencils on yellow legal notepads anita tight and retyped each page. Every decision about the story was reviewed together had to unfold the characters and how they talked how the murders were tied together and how much detail to give how much should depend on pee-wee's zone storytelling. And how much to rely on legal documents. And gemstone research the characters around pay. We bring to mind the various characters in charles dickens. The marvelous way that he is depicted show. Many different people and i saw our failed as i was writing the same kind of thing with these characters. That surrounded peewee. Everybody from johnny sellers to dennis me to die in bellamy neely jim is so wonderful in capturing everything about peewee not just the horror not just the seemingly emotionless killer but also an aspect of pirie. It shouldn't be just ignored in discussing him as mass murderer deem him because he wasn't redeemable but he did bring those in and i think that's part of genius of the way. Jim wrote that book. The attention given to the victims and their intimate moments became part of jim. And anita's own relationship. They discussed the people. Jim wrote about in his book. He had his favorites yanni sellers. He was a cut above all the others. He was the one that i thought had most promise. And also like jesse judy. Because i shoot based on anita anita was jesse. Judy johnny salaries. Carl sellers older brother. Who was never in trouble with the law and went to work for p. way stealing dalen speedway would say and just walked out one night to his death am beg your pardon. That was on a sunday around noon. Him right before he killed jesse so much time spent thinking about these real life. Victims became a focal point in gyms view of the world. His voice in this podcast gives them a humanity that television newspaper reporters didn't have the airtime or printed words to develop a fellow professor encouraged jim to finish polishing his manuscript which he did as he battled with lymphoma and began this podcast. His friend encouraged him to send it to a publisher. It sits ready to be read. The story born from the interviews between these two men pee wee jim. The day that i didn't return radio to pee-wee's mother has promised i would. I was going to make talk that night. At coastal to somebody about the book people waited for the book and wanted it. Surely enough forty years later is going to be. Our podcast has been the story of how a murderer influenced to writer. Jim battle with cancer was going well. He was diagnosed with cova pneumonia and hospitalized two days after his eighty fifth birthday in the spring of two thousand twenty one three weeks later with his family at his bedside. He heard the first episode of pee. Wee gaskins was not my friend just a few hours before he passed away. I think that those two years. I was with peewee help. Simet what i consider the theme of our family through it all at the end of the day when the sun goes down the love can harness. Say it without crying. Love that we have for each other is constant and will remain as we are a family. Whose foundation is love. Gaskins was not my friends joint production from i heart radio doghouse pictures produced and hosted by jeff gaming executive producers courtney to freeze and noah brown written by jim roberts courtney freeze and terry james and it makes and sound design by jeremiah cumani prescott music composed by diamond street productions spencer in newberry special. Thanks to jim. And anita baby. Additional thanks to the university of south carolina moving image research collections and the university of south carolina. Show brothers is now building new homes and ten unique communities across tax friendly coastal delaware with twelve models available to virtually tour you can discover shaw brothers unique curb appeal and sensational floor plans from the comfort of your own home. Spring is the perfect time to start planning your dream home to start exploring everything shell brothers has to offer visit us today at shaw brothers dot com models currently oakland by appointment only rabidly changing world. People wonder more and more about where their food comes from and out was grown. The farmers who grow america's corn understand. How important this is and share the stories from our farms of how we are working to grow an crop that can be an answer to sustainability questions and has grown by men and women who value air water soil and our natural resources. Just like you to find out. More about how corn farmers are working to feed and fuel a vibrant economy. An healthy planet visit nca dot com a commitment to the future. Do you wonder where your food comes from. More and more people to america's corn farmers work hard every day to grow a crop that you can be proud to serve your family. And they're doing it with an eye toward sustainability caring for water air soil and resources that fuel healthy families and more sustainable products. Take a look to find out how farmers in rural america work to make life better for all of us from cities to their rural communities learn more at nc g. a. dot com in cgi a commitment to the future.

anita wee gaskins jim beattie jim south carolina beulah heights Rudolph tyner rudolph tyner atlanta gaskins pee wee gaskins Jim kim calkins Wee gaskins Nikki glaser takoradi Andrew young jeff keating yaskin
Buried in Rubble

Pee Wee Gaskins Was Not My Friend

50:20 min | 3 months ago

Buried in Rubble

"Support for this. Podcast comes from cr clear for the annoying measure facing down. In your home you can fight the clean fight with. Cslr clear battle against calcium build-up go toe-to-toe with toilet scum duke it out with disposal rot the entire line of powerful formulas works hard to vanquish dirt grime and deposits all around your home so ko the crud fight clean fight with cslr clear visit sealer brands dot com to learn more. Do you wonder where your food comes from. More and more people to america's corn farmers work hard every day to grow a crop that you can be proud to serve your family. And they're doing it with an eye toward sustainability caring water air soil and resources that fuel healthy families and more sustainable products. Take a look to find out how farmers in rural america work to make life better for all of us from cities to their rural communities. Learn more at insead g. a. dot com in cg a commitment to the future pee. Wee gaskins recorded several conversations. He had with. Tony cmo about his unsuccessful. Attemps to fatally poison rudolph tyner. Tony provided peewee with strychnine and oleander. But it just made tyner sick as a dog. he was on borrowed time and running out of appeals. But tony cmo and pee wee. Gaskins would not wait for the courts to work out the legal issues. They were going to execute tyner before the state of south carolina ever got to him. Murder china stopped anything else. I saw that. I was going to be accused as an accomplice to murder. P we had committed wounded dread a little bit of hara. Oh my gosh. I could happen. Throws hours devastated. What have i done from iheartradio and doghouse pictures. This is kiwi gaskins was not my friend. I'm jeff keating earlier here asked me to deliver the radio to his son which i did not own time but i did on day that we walked in at the close of the visit. He's a favor he said. Because you mail me a package. And i say what he's at. I need fifty feet of tv. Wire go to any hardware store and buy but anita fifty feet says. We have an antenna on top of the building. He said if. I can wire the tv to that antenna. Fifty people can watch sunday football. Wrap it up in an envelope and mail it to me here. They will examine it. Be a you really think. Let me do that all the time. People send me things all the time. So jim went to the hardware store. Bought the wire and mailed it to see. Cci unbeknownst to jim it would help me. We complete his murderous plan. I had no idea that was gonna usually for anything than what he said and that was to connect to antenna. They were unable fifty people to watch television. Not thaw cable so that people can watch sunday football the same way. I do little that i know. jim beattie new. As much as anyone could about south carolina's most notorious mass murderer and he was hopeful. His book peewee in me would be a full account of the meanest man in america. He was writing the novel that aimed towards redemption. It wasn't going to be like in cold blood a book. Jim taught on occasion. That was too sordid for jim. Storytelling approach. Jim was optimistic. That he could share some characteristics appear we that people often didn't see like honesty and compassion but in reality peewee rarely showed these traits in fact we told them this much during their interviews together. That's say would you ever lied to me thinking you know we'll but we're all friends he's not going to lie to me. I need a lot of me. And he thought for seconds and he looked right at me and said yes. I would say pretty we. You would lie to me when he said without hesitating half the time without hesitating half the time it had started in their first interview when p. We said look. I want to set the record straight on some things in so many things out there that have been said about me. That are wrong on. You know what they are and to make those things right. Without hesitating half the tide. I also think did he had respect for me and was somewhat kind to me. He said if. I can wire the tv to that antenna. Fifty people can watch sunday football p. We had a fellow prisoner named james brown delivered. The plastic cup device to tyner sell with instruction that he was to plug it into the wire peewee hit connected from his cell. Tyner yelled into the vent towards peewee sell when he plugged it in and be. We told him to hold it up to his ear. Nancy plugged his and into the one ten socket and it went off. Ben t. we pulled the wire back through chopped it up and witnesses say that he was weighing on his bed saying what was that. The explosion rocked the prison and caused a chaotic mess. While tiner was dying in his cell of rubble. Inmates yelled questions through their prison. Bars guards ran around assessing the scene and pee wee gaskins laid there smiling on his cot. Holly gatling covered the gaskin story from the start and was the first to speak to pee wee after the bomb exploded a got a tip that there had been an explosion at ccri. And i had this number. And i called him and i said what's going on and he said a neat call you back on different phone. And he did he call me right back and then he said you know some bomb went off and he said next thing you know they'll be saying i did it. They're probably gonna accuse me of doing it. And i thought that was a mighty strange thing to say. Have the tide initially. When the report came in from law enforcement there was a opinion that tyner made a bomb out matches. It was trying to blow his way out of his death row. Cell the quickly forensic folks. I think from the f. b. i. Out it was sequel or plastic explosives. And that's when the scrutiny real investigation began investigators consider tyner had committed suicide since he'd been sick several times recently often looking at shannon gaunt even the guards at noticed it. It's possible that by taking his own life. He would avoid the electric chair but the way he died was so extreme that the focus quickly turn to homicide he lived for a little while but it was traumatic injury. They determined that somebody murdered tyner because they found a shrapnel including a speaker embedded in his head is handed been blown off as if he was holding his hand up to his head. At the time it went off it c. Four explosive was found and shrapnel. I'm talking about nuts and bolts and nails were found oliver's body in his cell that fisher's a random so at that point a homicide investigation began and a guy named al waters who was investigator for the department of corrections. Heard what he thought was a solid rumor that we have been involved at waters was the lead investigator and would later testify at the trial. He was joined by sled investigator. Tom henderson. Who had a history with gaskins in the prospect murders. That landed gaskins in jail for life to start. Our waters. peewee sell searched and they found all the tools necessary to assemble a bomb assadourian. Iron used to attach a wire to plugs and plenty of nuts bolts and screws to create shrapnel. We had melted hole in the bottom of this cup and put a female plug in it. That clog was attached to a blasting cap and surrounding that last capital c. four explosive which was surrounded by not bolts screws and sharp metal and glued on the top with a speaker. They like you get out of a radio. They also found a telephone. Jack razor blades. Marijuana electrical cords and damagingly thirty eight audio cassettes recorded audio from television programs. Recorded calls he made from the nearby prison payphone he recorded his family. Most importantly he recorded his conversations with tony. Cmo the man who hired him to kill rudolph tyner with c. for a cup and a wire found out from the local newspaper and our sacrified. I realized i mailed him the wire that he used to murder. Rudolf china and i froze data for my own safety and my wife safety families. What have i done strangely. Nas i did not speak with anybody about that. Dilemma accepting nita. I didn't any kind of law enforcement. And i realized what is this doing my interviews new books. I didn't think about it around the town of murder to jim was assisted by sled but that visit came hard on the heels of china's murder immediately found out and i would never be able to see peewee again because of what he had done. It was sunday. September twelfth nineteen eighty two when the bomb exploded entertainers head like the rest of the outside world. Jim beattie learned about the story. The next day in the newspaper he was shocked he and anita talked about what to do. They decided to do nothing but they did. Pray on it. I felt some peace. Knowing that i was totally innocent but then a while later jim beattie was teaching clash an english class at coastal carolina university. The doors of the classrooms have slender tiny windows. And i noticed as i was ending my lecture i think it was on shakespeare. I notice these two well dressed three piece suit. Gentlemen outside in the hall quite frankly i thought they were preachers of some sort on. Maybe used car salesman. I couldn't figure as it classes dismissed. The men come in and one of them. I knew that i'd seen before. And he flashed his badge inside his coat and said hello dr beatty. I'm tom henderson. I remembered special agent. Tom henderson of slid. he's got a few minutes. Would like to talk with you again. Like pays call. I turn a her shade pale and he could. We go to your office and we did. A gyms. heart was racing. His hands were sweating all those. What if he and anita question during their late night talks flashed in his mind as he led the authorities to his university office. And i had only one chair in my tiny office in addition to my chair and offered it to tom and he said no. I'll stand the other gentleman sat. I sat in my chair and henderson said professor. Did you have occasion to mail a tv cable to pee wee gaskins a month before he murdered rudolph tyner i did he said. Did you know that we use that to murder. Tyner accent did not know that he said well that is what he used the wire that you may owe him to murder rudolph tyner. He didn't say anything else. I didn't say anything else. There must have been silenced for fifteen seconds. That was fifteen hours to me he said. Can i sit down. And let's talk so his gentleman stood up. He then sat down and spoke with me. He's you know the trial is set. You know when it will be and you will be painted. And i said well who will subpoena me with defense subpoena me. Will the prosecution subpoena me. He said we're not sure. You'll probably be painted and gentlemen left. I walked out of the office. Deal with them. And tom henderson. And his partner. Move down the hall from a few steps and i watched every step every movement of each foot on the carpet leaving praying that they would be gone forever and as they stopped anderson turned and smiled and said by the way i said yes. He's i'd love to take one of your english classes. see later. I walked back into the office and called. Anita then really scared because it was clear to me whether he'd be called as an accomplice to go testify. I thought that he was to tell me that. I was going to be accuses and accomplice to murder that pee. We had committed own crazy. How much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. 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September twelfth nineteen eighty two in march of one thousand nine hundred eighty three took a month to see jury of eight women and four men for we murder trial. It's very difficult to get a jury question you ever heard about the dow weak acid yet. What about large mass murder interesting state. Well could you put that aside and base your verdict on the evidence in this case and a lot of people very honest at no so it took several hundred jurors to get twelve one guy said. Could you consider giving them life or would you give new electric chair. Because that's what we used back then and the this guy said i would give you after chair. I thought well this is one we can maybe use. He said no i'd hang. I mean that wet. So i don't remember three hundred. Something vaguely wecker before we got. I think we at four gene new twelve and two alternates. The jury selected the trial began. Prosecution was confident in their case. They had a trove of evidence and they had james brown a star witness who delivered the explosive to tyner as usual gaskins didn't fail to deliver spectacle at his trial. I think he was a self promoter. I think he had hold over a lotta people because they're feeble minds understand that he was lying that he was bigger than this five feet. Which and i think at the end of the day. This slants ridiculous. Plan to blow up a guy on death row. I mean that's what ends up. Killing him is sort of poetic justice. This is a outside crime by a little man. This guy was thinking all the time. He was crafty. I wouldn't say he was a brilliant but he was a very crafty guy. He's always working the engels. Any would've gotten away with it but those recordings we've never had any evidence we ended recordings. We wouldn't have gotten james brown. Even we'd had james brown being his word against pee-wee's james brown was on death row for a double murder so his word alone was suspect. Even compared to pee-wee's james brown to women. That's actually after they were dead. When i met him he looked like robinson crusoe. He had air down to his waist. A beer down to his waist. He will shoveled scraggly and i needed to get him prepared to testify. Bring them up to the courthouse every saturday. Get them some. Mcdonald's which they couldn't get in prison went over testimony with them got into cut. His hair got him shave his beard. Got him three piece suit. Regimental tie it. Looked like a million dollars in so put james understand. He notched it out of the car. James brown testified that p we had him take the plastic cup. The cup was filled with nails screws and metal brown said that right after the explosion he went to gaskins cell and saw gaskins pulling a wire from the bottom vinit itself a few moments later. He heard gaskins toilet flush. Gaskins came out of cell and went downstairs. He may have been on his way to talk to holly gatling at that moment. That's unclear but prosecution was able to link gaskins to a conspiracy to cover up the murder with james brown's assistance and the heart evidence gathered in. We sell one of the things. We skated during. This trial was a letter from gaskins to james route. He instructed james brown to go to the catholic priest and confess he killed tyner. Okay in gas in the letter reasons. We put this evidence this letter into us reasons that if you tell him you did it my lawyers can call into the stand and he'll have to say that somebody else confessed to him but he can't say who it was me got. The guy was any worked every angle. Of course james round gave us the letter that sort of ruined that glad jack swirling was gaskins defense attorney and is only tactic was going for reasonable doubt convincing the jury that it wasn't wee who made the bomb swirling attack james brown while he was on the stand so harpootlian had cross examine to counter swirling move jack did a pretty good job of trying to instill doubt. I mean reasonable. Doubt was the defense in that case and that is to attack. James brown challenges credibility james's mother was sitting in the courtroom nervously watching her son. Testify against peewee. Jack's rowing sending really begins to attack him for not really wanna be so when i got back up and i said james mr schwalier intimated that you were not francis. Peewee clearly wanna be. Is that true now. i said now. What was your real relationship with peavy. I'll never forget his but wide open. He looked at me back with mom and he says very quietly up what i can't hear you. I can't hear you james. He said we were lovers and the courtroom explodes and pandemonium slowing explodes out of his chair and starts lumbering towards bench. Screening objection gentian kiwi barely. I don't think in five eight probably didn't wait hundred thirty thousand robbing onto jack's choke tail and of being drug along with him screaming. And then pee wee yells at jack in this high pitched voice jack. Jack lewis on top Jim only hoped he would write a courtroom scene as bold as shakespeare's winter's tale or to kill a mocking bird by harper lee. Only those heavy weights could fashion such a picture with words and now appease words would be used against him when the prosecution played the recordings between cmo and gaskins. Recordings were devastating devastating. We have we planning it talking to him about what he needed. House going to put it in a radio. He said it didn't turn out to be radio. Came up with more devious devised. Forensics were that he was holding a device made of plastic cup the unbreakable plastic cup and the speaker other debris shrapnel. If you will enter this had an body c. Four explosive was consistent with what james brown testified. He got from tiwi and delivered which was consistent with the recorded conversation. So was a tough case. No we had. The recording should be weak and by the way it part murder convictions. I mean this is not not heavy lifting and took eight weeks but it was not the toughest case. I ever prosecuted by a long shot. Hard physical evidence testimony from an eyewitness accomplice courtroom drama sex between inmates. The whole pee wee gaskins saga had all the makings of a legal thriller and the courtroom didn't have to wait long for the verdict. As a practical matter peewee probably could not have been prosecuted under the new debt now. The law for crimes committed prior to that going into effect. You probably never could have gotten beth again. Li tyner case was the only way you could get the death penalty. The jury was out an hour before they found him. You're out an hour after to send some bad. I don't think they with either citizen. When jim beattie led investigators out of his office and off the university campus. He hoped that he would never see those guys again. He sweated fred wished and worried that he was never called to testify and his prayer was answered. He didn't even go to the trial. He was never approached again by authorities and was never charged with anything Investigators knew he had been an unwitting accomplice to the murder. Here's dick harpootlian in two thousand twenty one being told about the wire. Jim beattie mail to pee wee in prison. I've always assumed because he had wire-cutters clears and you name the tool and it was plenty of wire around where the cell was. I assumed he got it from somebody there. I never knew about jim or the wire. No one ever reported that jimmy jimmy. Anita slowly let go of their fears and anxieties but others were charged for their role in the assassination. Jack martin a friend of cmo from murals inland got cmo in touch with gerald mccormick inside. Ci and he served eighteen months for intimidation of a witness. Jero pot mccormick still had twenty six years left of his thirty year sentence for house breaking grand larceny and burglary. He received a five-year senate's concurrent with his existing one. James brown was transferred to a tennessee prison as part of his deal with prosecutors of all the people involved in this bizarre case only pee wee gaskins went to trial. Tony cmo still awaited his fate. It seems most everyone was sympathetic. To the moon's grieving son itching. I the most normal all american guy in the world just Had this obsession with avenging. The deaths parents you know a jury would have a hard time getting a unanimous verdict to convict him of anything serious. All he did was what we were trying to do. And that was execute tyner and of course some folks a number of folks get his conduct is a twofer not only get tyner. We got to ask. The question is would you get twelve jurors to convict. Tony seem of something that result in prison sentence for him forgetting pee wee gaskins to basically do what not base where he executed a guy on death row. Now there is the argument that he put officers lives banker in getting into the department of corrections. Getting into homicide maniac. White people you don't know going to do with it and we just felt we talk. I mean we talked to a number of people whose judgment i trust in about how the community would trade and clearly. We didn't want to spend several weeks trying a very serious charge and up on jury. Tony cmo pled guilty to misprision making a bomb threat and conspiracy to commit murder his wife two daughters plus thirty or so family and friends were at the sentencing when the judge said quote to deter others from like behavior. I'm going to incarcerate you. I know that you and your family have gone through a lot. And we'll continue to but we can't have people taking the law into their own hands and exacting punishment in quote. He received concurrent sentences of eight years. The community had a barbecue raffle and raised three thousand dollars to offset most thirteen thousand legal fees. He served only six months and was released to a halfway house. For the remainder of the senate's contrite. He was ashamed all the real emotion. Better all i. But at the same time i think he was relieved that china's dead one local resident told the associated press quote. A man could only stand so much. I'd have done the same thing as tony. If i could have in quote ira parnell puts it this way. I can't really blame joan. Get distraught over things. I might recant to do the same thing. I don't know but that would just be a bad spot the beating but thankfully he didn't draw much town from it. I think everybody not saying sad story. It was a sad story and in nineteen eighty five two years after the trial. A tv movie called vengeance. The story of tony cmo began production with a two million dollar budget to see most dismay. South carolina did not allow criminals to profit from their crimes with movie. Tv or book deals therefore his fifteen thousand dollars payoff was given to rudolph timers family. Seema's life after the murder was hardly idyllic problems with drug use and perhaps a haunting sense of dread plagued him until two thousand and one when he suffered fatal drug overdose. A newspaper in orangeburg south carolina called the times and democrat printed a statement from his two daughters who were then in their twenties. No one will know what was in his mind sunday night but we believe in his heart did not see a positive future in a rapidly changing world. People wonder more and more about where their food comes from and out was grown. The farmers who grow america's corn understand. How important this is and to share the stories from our farms of how we are working to grow an incredible crop that can be an answer to sustainability questions and his grown by men and women who value the air water soil and our natural resources. Just like you to find out more about how corn farmers are working to feed and fuel a vibrant economy and healthy planet visit. Cj dot com nc commitment to the future. Do you wonder where your food comes from more. And more people to america's corn farmers work hard every day to grow a crop that you can be proud to serve your family. And they're doing it with an eye toward sustainability caring for water air soil and resources that fuel healthy families and more sustainable products. Take a look to find out how farmers in rural america worked to make life better for all of us from cities to their rural communities. Learn more at nc g. a. dot com nc g a a commitment to the future. Jim beattie had been working feverishly on his book. Before bam kill tyner and blew up gyms dreams what happens. I'm merely mawar to the prison. And he blows a fellow inmates hand off so so much from my hope of redemption. My prayer was that through what i wrote study. What i thought i learned is one child. Lungile would have been spared from ever becoming another pee wee gaskins rather than hold. This individual is a monster period. Hold him up as a monster and see why and how we could do otherwise with the four year. Old little boy. I'd already finished each the book. But i was educating working a good bit riding a good big but when he fell when the project fell i stopped it murder turner. I literally dropped. My pen stopped. I didn't do anything else no book. There's no hopefully story ever be cho-. I was really frightened for jim. Because an accomplice to murder he really was an unwitting accomplice which i thought when i had my wits about me would keep him from being charged because he was so innocent only now do uh see the connection between gyms forgetting to take the radio to donny. Junior and maybe pee-wee's conscious seven. Jim up in that last interaction exchange. I don't know. But i mean that's the kind of thing p. We might have done 'cause he did set people up and he did take a while to get his revenge if you disobeyed him so that might be a little bit extreme. I think he really had affection for jim. But who knows in the rubble of jim's relationship with peewee. The baby's wondered if it had all gone sour when jim failed to promptly deliver the radio p was definitely upset by that. There was not one time with exception. Would i knew he was angry with that. I did not happily walk into that place to see him. I was looking forward. It was like going into a class to teach that was already. I could not wait to get from him. What i was going to get about life and living and no selling i think my god without lay down. I'll have lexical gar on any house surely duped by peewee and being pulled in as an accomplice absolutely allies. I thought i was doing good deed. I thank that. I became one more piece of the puzzle that we use every opportunity that he had all of us in the family lived at store with jim. There were nights when he'd come home and we couldn't wait to hear what happened in his stories but also got you in the stomach. I can remember now can even feel it a little bit of dread a little bit of horror a little bit of. Oh my gosh hacker to the happened. How could that be. And how could he have done this. And how could he still be around. And how could macho be entering the phone on sunday and talking to this guy but also how fascinating he was and how jim cared about. What made him the way. I do still carry that today whether or not the radio incident set. Jim's fate will forever remain a mystery as with so much in this story but for jim the whole of the saga was worth studying worth researching and worth telling my mentality going and has far riding. This true-life novel was at. I was equipped to give that. Although i have not tried it before but i had to live novel and i felt that the pee wee gaskins saga or the story itself needed to be child can never get away from the necessity of that. Being done for social reasons. There was something there around the situation. That i think the world needed to be told because the world needed to correct and i was in that world. I'm the came more and more confident that the task was necessary. And when he murdered rudolph china. It's squashed my project was of course my selfish out disillusioned. I didn't think there was any good. In pewee. I realized that i could not portray this man with any form of redemption. None whatsoever i completely gave up on the possibility of mobbing a writer. Jim found out that he was no more of a friend of pee wee gaskins than any of his dead victims and in nineteen eighty three p. We found himself on death row again. Even from there he was still able to play games with people and implicate them in his brazen schemes. A death penalty appeals are standard legal maneuvers for most convicts in south carolina. Death sentences are automatically appealed through the nineteen eighties. Peewee defense team led by jack swirling filed. Five different appeals with dozens of various charges in each each appeal was denied and peewee sat on death. Row sometime after the rudolph tyner murder. Dick harpootlian joined up with jack swirling and started a law firm. They practice together for years. Peewee was no longer in their legal lives but one day. Dick was reminded of pee-wee's incredible audacity. I'm playing golf. And i get a call from chief steward chievo sweat and at where are you. And that's not playing bell. This he said. And where's your daughter. I not like the sound of that. We think there's a lot maybe the kidnapper will send sled agents there. She was at home so by the time i got home. We sweat agents there The story came out that we had met with his son. Little donnie and donny had gone to a friend of his says his dad said the kidnap the solicitor solder or the governor son and that he intended on kidnapping swisher daughter was four years old and needed this young man to help him do it and he told the young man that his dad's he asked. What if you won't if kidnapper and he won't do what you want him to do what i do and we should keep an drunk and if you walk good killer. What he was supposed to do is tell me happy. We brought up to my office and the courthouse. This chilling he. We knew somehow that. I had a back door to my office. That if i told the sled ages to bring him in miles we they didn't know the door was there they will use. Go out the back door. i mean he. Nobody knew that. So the kid. When on went talked and other kids that get share. Barnes thank god and so they live there. She was fine. My wife was fine. They had washed out for ninety four car theft or something so they arrested him and took him into custody. Brinda chase was a new reporter for the florence morning news when donnie gaskins was detained in the florence county sheriff's office. It was just my second job out of college covering cops and courts and all things related to law enforcement. We had some friends over at the sheriff's office. One who gave me a call and said you're never going to believe this but we actually have peewee gaskins son in the county jail right now. His name is donny. And we've got him on a forty eight hour hold and he wants to speak to the media. Would you like to come over here and talk with them. And i was like absolutely. I thought i had arrived at the big time. And i'd only been there for a few months and i just thought man. This is cool. I'm getting the biggest scoop of the decade and fortunately the florence newspaper was very very close to the county jail and so ran across the street and they brought him in and he was so young looking. I believe donnie was twenty not much younger than myself. At that time he had never really had any time at all with his dad because his dad had pretty much been. Jail is whole life and it was so interesting talking to him because it was almost like there. Was this connection to pee wee gaskins through donnie. But very little time had he ever spent with his dad so he talked about how he didn't believe all these stories about his dad and his dad could not have done this and then he was of course proclaiming his innocence that he was not doing any of the things that they said he was gonna to do and so it was just a very odd conversation and it was through the plexiglass at the county jail and it was kind of bizarre that this young young man with absolutely no idea of how secure his dad was being held really thought well we could get him out of jail and then he would say a few things that kinda leads you to believe that he really was try and then he would of course remember. Oh wait i can't say that because Like not gonna be guilty of this so it was kind an odd conversation You know. I did feel a little bit. Sorry for donnie. I don't know that he ever had much of a chance. You know when you're growing up in that pd area south carolina. Everyone knew we gaskins was so everyone knew who his father was if he ever told them. And i just don't think he stood much of a chance coming into that local community with that last name and that as a father. But i don't think he had any kind of a chance growing up so the cops don gaskins for two days but the fear lasted longer for dick harpootlian for the next two weeks. We live with sled agents around our house outside our house. my daughter was a preschool. And when she went to preschool they had sweat agents around there. I don't think the other parents appreciate it much but actually stopped taking over there after a couple days because it was just too much to them to put their children at risk so we had a couple of weeks get up in the morning this weddings and the living room around the house out in the are you'll go to bed at night. That's the last thing you see. It led me to the conclusion. I never wanna live with secret service protection or anything like that is so obtrusive and it affects your mentality about the world large there. In other words you look at the rest of the world is threatening threatening the reason pee wee gaskins was not your friend is. There's always a gun or knife edge threatening at your doorstep or your office or your daughter's preschool. Even though dick harpootlian was one of south carolina's most well known prosecutors. He was still ten. By pee-wee's reach the fear was real and his friend and law partner. Jack swirling had his own scare several years after harpootlian kidnapped shock swirling felt the wrath of a former client on june twenty seventh. Two thousand and two swirling. His wife and daughter returned home from out of town trip as they were eating. Hamburgers to armed. Gunmen barged into their house and bound the family with duct tape. After ransacking the place one of the masked assailants jammed a gun into jack's neck and demanded to be told where the money in the house was swirling said he didn't have any at home. The man new swirling name which added a level of amazement to the whole ordeal yelled at jack. I'm gonna give you one more chance. Where's the money or i will kill you. Luckily after they rummage through the entire house the men left without killing anyone. Soon after james 'cause he was arrested and charged with numerous crimes including kidnapping armed robbery and burglary. It turns out that swirling defended causey in two different trials. He got him a reduced sentence each case but apparently causing still held a grudge that he had to go to jail at all. He is still serving life without parole. Jack swirling lives with the memory of his family bound and held at gunpoint in their own home. Dick carpool and lived with the memory of gaskins kidnapping plot does jim beattie worry about his own involvement in pee wee gaskins last murder. Of course i worried about it. I worry about that. now pee wee gaskins was not. My friend is a joint production from iheartradio and doghouse. Pictures produced and hosted by jeff keeping executive producers courtney to freeze and noah brown written by jim roberts coordinator freeze terry james at nixon sound design by jeremiah cumani prescott music composed by diamond street productions spencer garni newbury special thanks to jim and anita beatty additional thanks to the university of south carolina moving image research collections and the university of south carolina. Do you wonder where your food comes from. More and more people to america's corn farmers work hard every day to grow a crop that you can be proud to serve your family. And they're doing it with an eye toward sustainability caring for water air soil and resources that fuel healthy families and more sustainable products. Take a look to find out how farmers in rural america work to make life better for all of us from cities to their rural communities. Learn more at nc gpa. Dot com in cgi a commitment to the future in a rapidly changing world. People wonder and more about where their food comes from and out was grown. The farmers who grow america's corn understand. How important this is and to share the story from our farms of how we are working to grow an incredible crop that can be an answer to sustainability questions and grown by men and women who valliere water soil and our natural resources. Just like you to find out more about how corn are working to feed and fuel a vibrant economy and healthy planet visit. Nca dot com nca a commitment to the future.

gaskins rudolph tyner tyner wee gaskins james brown jim beattie tom henderson jim Tony cmo Jim beattie tony cmo america south carolina Jim jack swirling iheartradio Gaskins Wee gaskins Tyner kiwi gaskins
Cruel and Unusual Punishment

Pee Wee Gaskins Was Not My Friend

49:05 min | 4 months ago

Cruel and Unusual Punishment

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Gaskins had a reputation as a liar a manipulator and a killer he dominated and controlled everyone around him but surprisingly he was also known for his kindness he enjoyed hosting cookouts on weekends for his family and friends with children playing all around them. He extended his generosity to the elderly on several occasions. P we could make you believe he was a really nice guy and your friend but beneath that charming exterior a killer. Lert dr jekyll and mr hyde. The man who would fix a senior citizens car for free and the monster who would stab you with a campbell soup knife. He attacked two of the different guard. Put them both in hospital. You really crazier just. Somebody wanted to kill somebody. It was the scariest most frightening thing of saying. I realized i had violated the code iheartradio at doghouse pictures. This is pee. Wee gaskins was not my friend. I'm jeff kaeding. The relationship between jim and pee. We grew over time and extended to jim's wife and kids. The tales from his prison interviews were source of entertainment for the whole family. He would come back from a visit. Peewee we would gather together and hear the stories scary stores for the children and the little ones my concerns grew and the children got more fascinated with the gory details but they were funny and endearing stories about wee the gym shared with his family as well he was that man. Good guy gaskins. The gym and the baby family built a report with on their weekly sunday morning. Phone calls peewee may to their house from prison. I call it. Research hours researching this mass murderer. Anything that i could learn. I wanted to learn so i thought that was one more way make able to do this. The phone call is going to answer usually by to the younger children and they would call me to the phone after some we've conversation. He called dozens of times to a house on sunday morning. Collect jim drove two hours. Each way to visit peewee every week. Listening to merle haggard and frank sinatra on cassette tapes thinking about the book and the stories he was going to put in it he never knew how long the interviews would continue or if the prison would stop them for some reason. The phone calls were follow up research. Jim called it and the sunday morning calls also created a new family dynamic. Now wasn't afraid for him. I don't know why wasn't it wasn't big chris. We would call for jim but on the way to get jim fun. The kids were be asked by him. Are you going to send is good then. Good and christian was fascinated with that. It was one of those calls with christian that ended with a surprise invitation christian about thank was eight years old and he was answering the phone regularly and pee we call one sunday and christian took the call and the entire conversation between christian pee wee hours not call to the phone christian. Hung up in came to my office and said dad. You know peewee suing the state of south carolina. I said no. Chris into you. Know i'm mother goose. He said dad i'm serious. He said they've mistreated him. What humane christian. He said they have neglected his hemorrhoids. And we both laughed a bit he said. And there's a hearing the end of next week and we're all invited. Is it christian. Have you taken leave of your senses. What's wrong boy he said dad. I'm telling the truth. So i call my attorney and ask him could possibly be true. That pee wee is suing the state of south carolina for cruel and unusual punishment. He's at indeed he is in. I hope you all can attend to hear him. Because i can't be there that week. We go to columbia two of our younger children and anita go to the hearing. There's no one in the room except a judge and two state attorneys and peewee with the guards who have him. Handcuffed and pee wee presents his case and is suing the state of south carolina for one million dollars for neglecting. His hemorrhoids was worried and in pain and he was seeking relief. We were there in the courtroom. I expected five feet to one inch tall really pale. Skin really black. He walked in his arms were chained to his wife's he had on ankle chains. It sounded like that scene from the ebony screwed story the ghost of christmas past rallying his change coming in the courtroom and there were two marshals one on either side of him and they looked big and burly and he didn't even come up to their shoulders but they were so nervous with him and he was smiling. I know i'm the man. And you don't know what i'm gonna do next kind of thing. It was just really fascinating. And i was shot at. How smalley was in frail looking day was so obviously nervous. Hearing only lasted a few minutes. Peewee complained that the prison officials had failed to address this repeated complaints about hemorrhoids and their inattention to his medical condition amounted to cruel and unusual punishment. He requested the judge rule in his favor and award him. One million dollars as compensation for pain and the state attorneys did not respond to hear closed and as the guards stood when p we should our son christian went immediately to him and put out his hand and peewee with his handcuffs. Put out his right hand and he and christian shook hands right there at the hemorrhoids hearing hours. Not concerned for the safety of our son. Because he was handcuffed in those men were standing right there with him and peewee was my acquaintance. I had trust. I trusted him. He trusts we did. Thanks for each other little or no of course two weeks. After the court appearance. Jim visited peewee in prison. He was ready to write down. New stories. peewee would share that day and without the usual good morning. Mister jam. how you doing. How was the drive. he's did you hear the news. Did you hear the news i said. What news peewee. He said we won. We won. I said what did we win. He said we be on the hemorrhoids trial. I say we did. I said what did we gay. He said we got one dollar and a large tube of preparation. Age two men. A literary professor and a mass murderer had established a comfortable relationship and the bond extended to their families. Young christian would exchange letters with peewee. It was a terrific story to share with his classmates. How many of them personally knew a murderer. Never mind the most famous mass murderer in state history. He just loved the fact that he could write a letter to a friend in that prison. So after the hemorrhoids hearing package arrives and it's for christian badie and you can tell it's hand wrapped its hand. Marked is very elaborately in carefully done and christian opened it and it was a hat. Is the scariest strangest. Weirdest most frightening thing i've seen. It had a floppy denim brim that he clearly had cut out of some blue jeans in prison. It had horns stuffed horns like devil horns on top but the tips were painted red. Like blood on the tips and it was probably red fingernail polish because it was paint and it had a crown that had been handed it. You could see the hand stitching because it wasn't the same color as the fabric anywhere but it was done carefully and intentionally and graphically to portray this image this was made by peewee behan in prison and christian thought was best thing he had ever seen. Red tipped bullhorns atop crown denham. Floppy hat sewn with prison thread and a needle. It's a macabre image with a dark humor to it. A sort of thanks for your support gift from a mass murderer. Here's his brother. Mark talking about the new cap. I'll never forget him. Showing it to me crowd -ly christian that is and i wanted to share his enthusiasm. I was not enthused. I thought it was a bad idea. We were fascinated to but we were horrified to because you have to see it to understand the mix of emotions. It was stunning. Who still have it is an important symbol of this man. The conflated contrasting images in behavior and emotions and mix of this man. And i think jim's position on he should have been is exactly right. The baby family went to trial out of curiosity and to offer support. They did favors for him as well. Jim and i picked up his mother and his sister carole and his son and took them for a day trip to myrtle beach. I'm not sure his mother had ever been to the beach. So we'd sat out on the sand palo pitney. Jim showed other kind gestures towards pee. Wee family like meeting peewee sister for lunch or taking his mom to prison for a visit. These folks had done no wrong and jim treated them respectfully. But sooner or later you're bound to encounter the face of pee-wee's mr hyde. Jim came across this dark side. Ep we when he delayed a simple request he asked me what i deliver a radio to his son dhani through his mother who knew i was bringing it in downey didn't because it was a surprise and i said of course in p. We showed it to me and he said this is a gift for my son donnie. In if you take it to him. I'll be very grateful when i left columbia to drive back to myrtle beach. Prospect is just a little off the beaten bath and as i approached prospect. I realized i was running late. I had a speaking engagement that night about the book. And i didn't want to be late so i decided i'll take it back when whenever i can that next sunday morning christian answers the phone and he talks briefly not long. I didn't hear it christian goes to me and said dad. It's peewee but he really sounds weird so go to the phone nausea. Hello peewee in this. Very high voice says this mr jim beattie and that was the only time that he ever call me. Mr jim badie was always mr. Jim never missed abadie. Never anything else he said supposed to obey yes of course be we. Hello is jim how are you. He said i have occasion to give you a radio last wednesday to take to my son by wear my mother's house and prospect. A said. You certainly did we. Please let me apologize. I said i am so sorry that i didn't do that. He's when do you think you might be able to deliver that. I said as. I turn whiter shade of pale. I said this afternoon. Really he said cannot tell my mother. It'll be there today. I said tonight he said thank you. Click it's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. Luckily there's forward a new approach to primary care that surprisingly personal and refreshingly straightforward forward never makes you feel like just another patient backed by top rated doctors and the latest tech forward gives you access to personalized care whenever you need it. Using in-depth genetic analysis in real time bloodwork forwards top rated doctors provide you with in-depth insights to better understand your genetics mental and physical health. 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I could use a new chair. Home sense has stuff to plus up every room in your house. There's so much to choose from furniture rugs lights hall decor so many throw pillows while art and bowls. Okay you got me. I've got to check out home sense. You can take a virtual tour online and to get directions to the store at home. Sense dot com. Oh and when you go yeah take me with you. Deal that ominous phone call. P we send chills down jim beattie spine pictures of grisly autopsy photos flash through his mind. The tone of voice was most alarming. That same voice was voice. I heard when he talked about dennis. Bellamy same voice. I heard later on when you talked about tyner. Same boy steady talked about avery. Howard and i realized i had violated the code. It was serious. Serious business. Jim and anita abadie had plenty of reasons to be concerned after the radio incident. Peewee had always been transparent during his interviews about how he viewed betrayal. He did say my mother will be expecting arabia. I knew that. I did not want to be in that category of people that didn't follow up on what really required and ask them to do. Do not fail pee wee gaskins. Several people in this story lost their lives after they betrayed him. They were shot stabbed strangled or drowned. Jim references a code that peewee followed expectations for people around him expectations. That others should live by and that he would kill by not formal not sensible newspapers all over the southeast printed stories about the killer's code as a way to understand a man who murdered so many. These mass murderers are easier to comprehend to categorize to contain. If we're able to put labels on their behaviors but with gaskins there was no firm sense of why no easy justification or psychologist no clear modus operandi. He didn't kill couples parked in cars at night or berry his victims under his house. He didn't present a sexual fetish or chop people up and put their body parts in his freezer. There is evidence though that gaskins had his own. Strictly enforced twisted sense of morals the penalty for violating. His morality could be death. Holly gatling margaret o'shea and cecil chandler all spent significant time with peewee story. And help shed light on him as a killer. I tell you what he told me. One time you know some of his crisis stick in my mind. He said i never killed nobody. That didn't need killing not a lot. Surprises me about what people are capable of doing. At that point in my life. I had written about many many others who had done grizzly things. People call him a serial killer but unlike most he didn't have an m. o. He he didn't have a trigger or desire to be met that figured in all of his killing. This is a kind of person. You wonder what's going through his mind. Was he really crazier. Just somebody wanted to kill somebody of the eleven people killed so far in our story. Seven were by hand drowned beaten or stabbed with the campbell soup knife physical violence from a man who was just over five feet tall and weighed one hundred and thirty pounds. Here's jim pee. Wee reese thirteen years of age. He established himself early in the industrial school. There in france he was the smallest and the group but he was a quickest fastest. He attacked two of the different guards. Put them both in the hospital so he became the big man early even at the reform school. And this is a pattern for peewee. This is an emo establish who's in charge. The potential for violence goes a long way in crowd. Control and peewee. Use it over those people around him. It held them in check. Got them to meet his expectations. One of the violations to pee-wee's twisted ethics was white. Should not mix with blacks especially when it came to sex gaskins. Thought people had their place and that whites and blacks had no place together and he was willing to go as far as murder to enforce his expectations. And p we felt no guilt when discussing his murders. The only time that gaskins came close to remorse was when he talked. Jim beattie about johnny night pay. We talked to me about what a shame. It was that john. Henry knight had to die. He didn't say i killed him. And i'm sorry he semper said it was a shame that john henry knight had to die. It's a shame. Johnny night had to die. There's a detached passive voice in that sentence that hides the action of the murder. As if johnny just died on his own. It's a shame. Johnny night had to die. This way of speaking in the passive voice removes the horror that actually took place we know the gaskins was a brutal killer and in his view none deserved his wrath. More than those white folks who mixed with black folks or black folks who destroyed the lives of decent white folks. We had a bitter hatred for all black. People felt their inferiority did not trust them. Do not want them around him. Do not want them to exist. He was that severe in his racism. So when doreen dempsey had a child. Michelle robin nipsy was born when he sees this baby and can tell. Obviously this is a black baby. He was utterly infuriated. He felt betrayed. He felt that the person he had taken in and helped so many years ago and so thoroughly he hated this and that was the fruition of the manifestation of his harsh racism. Peewee drowned doreen dempsey. Because she got pregnant by black man he then drowned her two year old baby for being of mixed race to save her from what he saw as a certain life of misery precisely because she was biracial to satisfy his sense of ethics. Gaskins also poison clyde dick's and dumped her body unceremoniously on the side of the road for apparently selling drugs to his niece patricia and her friend janus aulsebrook and of course we can't forget that rudolph china was a black man who violated the worst of the code by killing a white man. Bill motor and businessmen peewee. Told me as rudolph tyner walked and they walkway one story above us. He said he is. He said i could kill him right now if i had my thirty thirty and as peewee told me several times lots of people don't deserve to live in rudolf. China was one of those peewee. Sensib ethics also penalize those who acted poorly in front of children. One of the main items police code was it. He did not allow anyone to curse or drink or misbehave in any way around the children especially the children that he had in his house. The man who strangled his niece drowned to baby and raped. Teenage girls was also their fierce protector. Jim and anita saw this paradox and contradiction in pewee. He never cursed no explicit language allowed. Yes he pistol whipped a man within an inch of his life but he never used profanity while doing so. The one of his enemies violated. This code is hatred for dennis. Bellamy began with bellamy's behavior in front of the children that were in his house. He deeply resented this. Tom henderson loved pee wee. You didn't let them anchor costs in front of the children and we said absolutely not. He said they weren't gonna cost and drink of my kids so he had this code that he demanded it be followed then he himself and my presence. He never once used any profanity through all of those parties at his trailer rock and roll blaring on the radio beers and barbecue for everyone. People were still expected to abide by his rules. And one of wee golden rules was no jawline no talking about his crimes. Some of those peewee circle were complicit in various crimes if they threaten to talk about any of gaskin suspected murders or stealing dealings. The penalty was death. Disloyalty was unacceptable. Diane bellamy was killed after she threatened to tell police about an underage girl. Having sex at pee-wee's home avery howard was taken out when he suggested diane knew about one of his murders. Johnny sellers was murdered after he threatened belt. Needy saying he was going to rat him in pewee out unless he was paid. And jesse judy was killed as a witness to her boyfriend's murder not to mention she had left peewee for another man. The question of loyalty entered in the relationship. P we had with jesse judy and although he allowed jonny and jessie to set up housekeeping deeply-resented so i do think that that entered in his mind when he killed jesse. Judy jim beattie was well. Aware of peewee. Codes and when p. We asked you to do something you did it. So after jim delay delivering a radio to pee wee son the civility that p we had once extended to. Jim was noticeably strained. Jim was nervous. But jim wasn't like the others. He wasn't in pee-wee's crew. He wasn't threatening to turn state's evidence he was just a man who forgot to deliver a surprise gift to pee-wee's only son could he to go from friend to foe so quickly he said i never killed nobody that didn't need killing. He just killed whatever he wanted to win. He wanted to mattress. Warehouse knows that buying a mattress can be tough with so many choices. Where do you start introducing bed match a patented diagnostic system. That determines your pressure points and recommends the mattresses that are fast for your individual sleep needs and it's found only at mattress warehouse come. Tried that match at a mattress warehouse near you. Visit sleep happens dot com for locations and get free next day delivery on select purchases house so you peppers dot com. 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He was a forty four year old local farmer who did very well growing and selling tobacco on his farm near sumpter south carolina. His farm and his house were large by any standard but he was recently separated from his wife and his accommodations had changed amaro. Yates was living in a trailer. Because they'd separate. He certainly could afford a house another place to live but he was on his own trailer on his property. Barnwell started a relationship with susan clippers. Who was fifteen years younger than he was. He lavished her with gifts and attention. All of the courting and taking her out to eat and all of that business hebrew ahora datsuns z. Beautiful arse saddles. All of this stuff. I think he had all the money that he could spend with his money clip with hundreds of dollars in it all the time. I called him a gentleman farmer but he got mixed up with the wrong bunch by nineteen seventy four. Though suzanne was apparently done with their gentleman farmer she left him and began a lengthy battle over those gifts. Just divorced perhaps still sore. From the break-up bardwell found himself estranged from another woman. She took her gifts and he wanted them back the issues of ownership over the car. The horse and jewelry when into a lengthy court battle and those issues were never resolved while she was fighting barnwell. Suzanne began a relationship with john. Owens she was twenty nine. He was twenty two. She was a young woman and he was from a well to do family. But john owens was naive compared to the sexy and sexually experienced suzanne and since she could not let go over anger towards barnwell. Yates suzanne astor new bow to do something about her troubles. He hired attorneys. Tried to put legal pressure on all for not the horse. And the datsun z. Were still in barn wells name so he was able to properly claim those in repossession. She was infuriated and suggested john. Owens get a guy to scare bon gates into giving up the fight for the stolen presence. She was going to get back to horse and car. Anyway she could. Suzanne kipper knew a man named john powell known as ted lem who she thought would be able to help. Ted lamb was in associated pee wee gaskins and must have known that he was just the kind of guy to hire in this type of situation so we introduced suzanne and john to pee wee the four concocted a plan to scare barnwell gates. But that plan somehow turned into murder on february twelfth. Nineteen seventy five. P we drove with. Ted lem suzanne and john owens to barnwell trailer pee wee said that someone went to mali h his trailer and knock on the door and as long as we age to come out and for some reason to speak with whoever is supposed to be outside. And he said. I don't have time to be bothered. Yearly meal lawn at that peewee and ted got outta pee-wee's car and took matters into their own hands the one in and forced him out and put him into chocolate car and took him away court testimony reveals that peewee handcuffed barnwell and put him in the trunk of the car. Apparently suzanne started begging them not to kill her former lover who was in the trunk praying and begging for his life. There's no turning back now. We told them barnwell it seen him and could turn him in and pee wee was not interested in going back to jail. Killing him was the logical into the plan plus he was hired to do a job. They drove to pee-wee's field near prospect. Peewee and tedlar took barnwell from the trunk and led him into the dark field. Suzanne and john owens were told to remain in the car. They waited for a gunshot. None came. They were startled a while later when peewee we suddenly opened the car door insisting they follow him to see the body. They didn't need to see him. They insisted but pewee demanded that they look at the dead body when they got to barnwell. Yates they saw his throat was covered in blood. Peewee and ted limb drag the body into a shallow grave and covered it with some dirt and underbrush susannah. John owens were driven back to their own car and told never to mention the murder to anyone or they too would be killed pe- we also reminded them that they were now accessories to murder. He told them. We're all in this together now. P we mentioned this killing to me because he wanted to show me the toughness of his karate chop hand and he said by using his hand to break his windpipe. That's how ball. yates died. I killed him. And then when solicitors and other people later on tried to say he was killed. Another way was shot. He said that may have happened. After i was there but i kill horrible with my karate chop he said i hit the iron bar on the side of my bed a hundred times as hard as i can every night so that by hand will be tough enough for the karate job and he would always put it out and say here feel that and sometimes i did and it was like a rock. It was the same hand that young christian beatty reached out to shake the hammer. Roy trial the same hand. That later made the blood tip bullhorn denham hat the same one that held during dempsey and her toddler underwater. Jim and pee. We rarely talked about his murders directly. Jim says he wasn't overly interested in vivid descriptions styled like in cold blood a book. He taught numerous times in his classes at coastal carolina university. They talked about barnwell gates only as a means for talking about pee-wee's hardened fist and karate chop the result of that blow to his throat led to his fixation for poor barnwell. When police discovered the body it was so badly decomposed that the corner could not tell if his throat had been cut or not and exactly how authorities got to. That body is itself. Its own incredible tale one year after his arrest for the eight bodies in his burial field after his conviction for murdering dennis bellamy pee wee gaskins was ready to make a deal to give up another body. He hadn't yet made his plea deal and the death penalty was currently illegal so he knew the most he get for. This new body was another life sentence if they could prove he was the murderer. This is when pe- we told authorities to look for patricia aulsebrook. Under a cement slab. Police ended up finding her in a septic tank. Now police thought he could be trusted for even more information. Peewee pledged to give up barnwell gates up to this point police at only suzanne. John owens's suspects she had been in a relationship with him and was in court battles with him when he disappeared. Police tried to question the newly married couple about barnwell disappearance. They were uncooperative. And without a body or evidence of any kind they cannot bring any charges so in shackles. Handcuffs peewee was taken out of prison and led investigators to barnwell gates body. Here's florence county. Sheriff billy barnes on television news report. The evening they found the body and over in the field on this side of the road where barnwell h his body was found. Lauren was lured out of his trailer. Picked up by peewee and a couple of other people putting the trunk of a car wrote after this feel where he was killed and buried. They found the body early afternoon and they identified the body. And that night was when they actually arrested yanni. And suzanne owens. Well it works he cooperated. He said to me several times. I just got to keep my ended a bargain which i find so erotic. But that's exactly what he said when he fouled and he wanted it done like my carrying a radio battery son. I told him i was going to do it. He wants it done. Police quickly arrested. Ted lem powell and charts all of them for barnwell gates murder in exchange for this revelation. Peewee was given a conjugal visit with his wife. Donna carrillo pee-wee's attorney later wrote that. All parties involved agreed that have donna was willing participant and was lawfully his wife that they were doing nothing immoral or illegal but there were stipulations quote if there is any indication that she is being threatened or forced in any way. It's over. if you have thoughts about escaping. I will shoot you and i've told my men to shoot you in that event. If you refuse to let her leave or hold her hostage we will consider that she is a part of the conspiracy and we will not be responsible for what happens to her in doing what we need to do to capture or kill you. Do you understand. In quotes peewee. We must have understood because he got a two hour. Visit with donna. They were given a cot near a small desk in a lamp in the corner of a room at the prison behind. Painters drop cloth. Thanks that kind of bargaining probably went on all the time she willingly went there and stayed with him for the two hours and the police officers were at the far end of the room in an enclosed area in one connor. I didn't get the feeding at all. That donna was the least bit hesitant. In fact. I think that she was glad to go and see him and be with him for two hours. That was my impression. I said the peewee peewee. Were you pleased with the visit. And he said. Let me put it to you this for two hours. I put it to her by. I have to laugh out loud every time i think. Peewee and his conjugal visit so peewee was in prison on a life sentence for killing dennis. Bellamy he was awaiting all sorts of rulings and hearings about the death penalty and he gave up barnwell. Yates for two hour. Conjugal visit with his wife donna. He was near agreeing to the plea deal for eight murders as a means of avoiding the electric chair. He held some sort of hope that he'd be eligible for parole at some point in giving up barnwell gates though peewee joined three other defendants in a murder. Trial the trial drew the whole states. Attention peewee was a household name all over south carolina in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven and he was on trial with suzanne. Owens john owens. And ted lem powell. We're all in this together. P we had told them the night he killed barnwell. Yates john. Owens was called to testify as the state's first witness. He had turned state's evidence no more than thirty minutes into his testimony. The defense asked for a recess during which they agree to plea deals for john. Suzanne and tedlar was all peewee. John owens declared on the stand prosecution said peewee was paid around two thousand dollars for the murder when pe- was called to the stand. He was red hot from the lack of loyalty shown by the co defendants. The courtroom was silent p. We had everyone's attention and he let loose determined to get back john owens. He tried to establish his trust with the jury by blurting out several other murders he committed and where they could find the bodies so deep was his disrespect that he was willing to risk potential further trials and sentencing to defend his honor. They killed barnwell. I had nothing to do with it. He told the jury he told them where he had seen. Clyde dick's dead body. This is also the moment when he claimed he killed pet. Cut no pee. Wee claimed several other high profile unresolved murders in south carolina. But no connection was ever made that he actually killed them on wednesday april twenty seventh. Nineteen seventy seven. It took a jury fifty eight minutes to convict him of murdering silas barnwell. Yates john. Owens pled guilty to accessory after the fact of murder and received a maximum ten year. Sentence suzanne kipper. Owens pled guilty to accessory before the fact on condition. The state would not oppose parole hearing in ten years and that she be given some type of secretarial work while in prison john. Bedlam powell pled guilty to murder condition. The state would not oppose his parole. Hearing in ten years at peewee sentencing circuit court judge. Dan laney gave him another life sentence. And said i just don't understand how a human being can take as many lives as you have. Don't you feel anything. You must not believe in god. This trial would never have happened. Had it not been for the conjugal visit with his wife. Donna carrillo and as the result of another conjugal visit p. We took investigators to find the missing girl. Kim g- elkins pee wee. Gaskins was not. My friend is a joint production from iheartradio doghouse. Pictures produced and hosted by. Jeff keeping executive producers courtney to freeze and noah brown written by jim roberts courtney freeze and terry james and it mix and sound design by jeremiah. Kalani prescott music composed by diamond street. Productions spencer garnered and in newbury special. Thanks to jim. And anita baby. Additional thanks to the university of south carolina moving image research collections and the university of south carolina. Truth hounds is a new investigative. Podcast one like you've never seen before. Well when like you've never heard before. Comedians in real life friends anna sarah gina and cow mazzano older humongous magnifying glass. To light smallest mysteries. There will be last. Ha ha ha. There will be tears. Why and there will be mysteries. What is that right over there. Oh it's my missing song. Iheartradio is number one for podcast. Don't take our word for it. Fine truth hounds on the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Are you one tree. Hill obsessed our brooke peyton and haley. Your bff goals join soapy. Bush hillary burton and bethany joy lens on the drama queens podcast to relive reload and rewatch every one tree hill. Minute here are no fans like one tree hill fans. There is no family like our family. So we got together to do rewatch podcast to relive the show as so many of you have listened to drama queens on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Jim jim gaskins barnwell Peewee south carolina barnwell gates wee gaskins mr hyde doreen dempsey john owens Lert dr jekyll Gaskins Wee gaskins jeff kaeding guy gaskins jim fun jesse judy christian badie
Being Black

Pee Wee Gaskins Was Not My Friend

50:42 min | 4 months ago

Being Black

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Jim beattie still believes that. Love conquers all but his faith was challenged when dealing with pee wee gaskins and his attitudes about race twenty five years prior before they met the. Us supreme court outlawed school racial segregation in the landmark case brown versus the board of education fifteen years prior the us congress passed the civil rights. Act banning discrimination on the basis of race color religion sex or national or but change was slow in many parts of the country including south carolina and some people like pee wee. Gaskins would never change most people. We spoke to were polite about his views on race but there was no mistaking it pee. Wee gaskins was a racist of some of the murders were particularly cruel killed doing in the baby because the father of they were black man no of three victims who were black or mixed race. I think we have to be taught to hate. I really really do i. Heart radio doghouse pictures. This is kiwi gaskins was not my friend. I'm jeff keating sure he's environment and certainly brutal would have taught him to think what he thought about black people and he learned it. Well i think we have to be taught to hate. I really really do if someone is taught hate and lives in an environment where racist attitudes often prevail. That's a dangerous combination margaret. O'shea covered the gaskin story for the south carolina. New over the state here. She is talking about that environment. A lot of what i know. I can infer about south carolina about rural south carolina in particular at the time that he was living in florence county it was an area where the clan was and may still be active although greatly diminished. You don't read or hear much about the ku klux klan. A more but the southern poverty law center knows that they do exist in south carolina. jennifer hawes is a pulitzer prize winning reporter at the post courrier newspaper in south carolina and author of the award. Winning book. grace will lead us home about the two thousand and fifteen emmanuel church shooting in charleston. Here she speaks about the climate in south carolina during the nineteen seventies. Couple of years ago we published a series called minimally adequate that looked at south carolina's education system in my piece of that series was looking at the history of the state. And why we have these racial disparities today. How history plays forward into that in. It's really interesting to me to find out that. Most of the school districts in south carolina did not desegregate till nineteen seventy public segregated. Schools were declared unconstitutional in nineteen fifty four's brown versus board of education supreme court ruling but they still existed in south carolina until nineteen seventy white residents in many communities created segregation academies. Were private schools for white students. And many of those academies still exists. They might have different names in there not sold as segregation academies. Obviously but you wind up at the system or you have predominantly african american public schools and virtually all white private schools in that system still exists a jim crow laws enacted throughout the south gave legal cover for public private recycle separation. These laws were the contemporary evolution of four hundred years. -sconsin white supremacy into law whitewater fountains and colored water fountains white only restaurants segregated schools. This was the norm. Throughout the south and other parts of the country slightly different circumstances led to vastly different people. Peewee was a racist. Mostly a product of the jim crow south and his specific family environment and this led to violent racial acts. He killed the woman for having a biracial child and being pregnant with another. He dumped a black woman's murdered body in an open field. Because she didn't warrant even the semblance of graves. He gave his other victims and he murdered a man in prison in part because he thought that justice system was too slow to execute black men on death row. These are difficult stories to tell and difficult stories to here but they are true and they had lasting effect on the victims families. And on the beanies You know the crime itself at my mind anyway is not the story. The story is the effect it has on everybody who's living. We're at a crime in which people were killed so the issue was split happened to after what happened to these tremendous relationship but also in my case to the family members fibers that the people who survived domestic violence. The story is the effect not the crime itself as many journalists who covered this story see silk. Chandler holly gatling margaret o'shea and others understand exactly what jennifer means. Jim beattie new this too but it would prove more difficult for him because he wasn't just covering the story he was living it as he interviewed. Pee wee gaskins regularly over a two year period and some of the stories were brutal. I think pe- was taught to hate and it certainly came out and his behavior doreen dempsey and her baby. Jim is referring to doreen dempsey. Who along with their two year. Old daughter robin were found. Murdered in nineteen seventy five more and dix also known as clyde was someone else p. We thought deserved to die. Here's tom fowler from w. i s. tv reporting on april twenty. Ninth nineteen seventy seven. The sled official. He mentioned in his report. Is i repair nell. Ira was working nearby with this father. Sumpter county sheriff. Byrd cornell gases told authorities. It would find a body the creek near this pine tree sled in sumpter county. Sheriff's investigators began looking the creek this morning but they didn't find a body in the creek on the bank. Though one hundred feet away they found skeletal remains gaskin. Said it was a black woman. Twenty years old called. Clyde gaskin said he killed her with a poison. Soft drink Go back up a dirt road just throwing her off center didn't vary her tried to live down myself. What i followed iraq. That's cana- game clear brushless overnight. Thanks live at work and the band and they would just go to have her. According to a may fourth nine hundred seventy seven article in the state newspaper written by gerry adams and cathy edwards martha and index had been playing cards and laughing with their family on the porch of their brand street home in sumter south carolina. The five foot. Four one hundred fifty five pound african american woman who is dressed as she often was in men's clothing and oversized button-down shirt slacks and a large belt buckle. She left in the early afternoon headed to the three. Sixty two club on manning avenue it was march twenty ninth nineteen seventy two and she was never seen again. Her sister told reporters that ann's friends called her clyde and that she was a lesbian who occasionally slept with men. She would sometimes slip away to visit out of state friends but she would always call and stay in touch with their family after several days without hearing from her. Her mother called police to report her missing but police would later say they had no record of the call and so they did not investigate pee. Wee gaskins was occasionally willing to disclose the location of a murder. Victim's body when he could get something in return with clyde peewee tried to cut a deal by revealing the location of a remains he directed. Sheriff bird parnell's deputies to the concord area of eastern sumpter county. The search came up empty so the deal was off two months later while testifying at trial unrelated to the murders of those eight victims found in the field. Gaskins shocked the courtroom and his very own attorneys by announcing under oath and without prompting that he had murdered clyde dick's and dumped her body in a ditch. Two days later sled investigator. Ira parnell found the skull about thirty feet from where gaskin said. He dumped her pee. Wee gaskins would officially confessed to killing martha an dick's. He slipped poison into her soda. Drink although there are a few stories about his motives. The most widely reported was that he wanted revenge because clyde was allegedly the one who supply drugs to his niece. Janice kirby another motive was that. Clyde hit told some people she was pregnant with his child and he was outraged at the rumor mccain wherein a stand at peewee has other people while she was black adult mixed in with that. That's not why killed her though latte killed her because she lied about me dan he followed that statement with a racist statement saying she told people that she was pregnant with my child. And i tell you one thing. I never done that with no black birth pee wee gaskins murdered martha andechs. There was no urgent. Police searched when she disappeared. No art search to find her body and there was no burial. She was just a poor young black lesbian whose body was tossed in a ditch. I know of three victims story if he can and unborn child. Who were black or nick. Strafe tales of some of the murders were particularly cold and cruel and the case of clyde one of the that was done to her was. He gave her anna coca-cola and then he poured acid on her and that fame. A horrible way to go out. It's crazy how much we have to pay for oudated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. Luckily there's forward a new approach to primary care that surprisingly personal and refreshingly straightforward forward never makes you feel like just another patient backed by top rated doctors and the latest tech forward gives you access to personalized care whenever you need it. Using in-depth genetic analysis in real time bloodwork forwards top rated doctors provide you with in-depth insights to better understand your genetics mental and physical health. They then create custom easy to understand plans to help guide you to achieving long-term health with forward you get unlimited in person visits with your doctor and access to care anytime via the forward app offer. One flat monthly fee. It's time to stop accepting backwards. Healthcare and start moving. Your health forward visit go forward dot com today to learn more that's go forward dot com you live broadcasts. You love stories love characters. You don't mind if those stories and characters are completely made up and you'll love this. Is americans live. A new improvised comedy podcasts. From will ferrell's big money players network. I mari the theater. And i'm mandy. Harris join us every week as we use our trustee random sentence generator to inspire us before each act will use the random sentenced to create seemingly unrelated scenes. That we've together at the very end forming a made up comedy podcast before your very years and we do the voices like this one at this. What what do what over. Hey where they do it. How will they do the things they do when they do. You know the answer is but we'll figure it out. Hopefully join me. Host ari theorist and we producer randy eras and a different special guests contributor every week for this as americans live. We hope it. It'll be good. You'll have to listen on sunday. June twentieth to find out for sure no guarantees. What kind of an attitude is that under. Promise of deliver. That's my motto. Andy all right now rushing. Americans live on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or whatever you listen to podcasts charles. Mcdougall was a social activist and former chairperson of the student. Nonviolent coordinating committee in nineteen fifty eight. He was in his first year at south carolina. State college now university on thanksgiving break with france. So we want to sumpter and as we were driving home. The koch foods india doing folds a asked him a license and registration stuff gave that and would talking tops of where you from boy. He got the license to read and he hit me mine. This was before the nonviolent civil rights struggle and i came from a tough steel town. And if somebody put the hand in your face you return the favor in kind so when the cop hit me i hit him and before you hit the ground i was kicking and stomping him about his next show is partner jumped into the fray so sees two cops and me fight and the cops beat me bloody broke. My aunt did my jaw that to the cops beat me. I was arrested for the first time in my life and charged with disturbing the peace and disobeying offs to the hospital and got patched up. And then i wanted to get on the train to go back to school went to get on train. The conduct to set. I get back to the baggage car. Says i you know. What is this bag. It's got on since and it seems that on every train in the south there was one call on the train for black people. The car right behind the engines with certain desks would come through and when that was field new. Sit in the baggage car. said no no no sport not my little ten dollars and fifty cents. Dry ride with cases mangy dogs and they're plenty of seats right here and i'm having one of them and set down and was rearrested for sitting in the white car and violating the laws of segregation. Once again that back in six hours at the of jail and Bess where it all began that afternoon in sumter south carolina. That thanksgiving weekend set. Charles mcadoo up for his years as an activist. He led the snc immediately after college in the years just before representative john. Lewis of georgia charleston's early life was shaped in a steel town in ohio where he learned to stand up for himself and persevere virtues he would need to fortify after his painful introduction to black life on the south side of the mason dixon. Line that experience. Set charles on a mission to elevate the stature of black lives in america particularly in the jim crow south and this was the same jim. Crow south that foreign pee wee gaskins contributed to his racism. That was a tough topic for jim. Beattie well my initial feeling is repulsion and i resented it very much even though it was pee wee gaskins. I could not bear to to sense anytime. There was any mention of an african american person that there was a hatred could not abide that. But then i moved to. Why how he and he peewee now. Almost the same age. He was a couple years older. We lived eighty miles apart and the state of south carolina. Why would he think has he done. And i think the way i do. It caused me recall. Racial tensions were high throughout the twentieth century and that included south carolina in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. A mysterious fire burned down in all black high school in greenville on homecoming night. No officials ever named 'cause suspects or motivation was one of the dozens of unsolved arsons in the state the orangeburg massacre of sixty eight exposed passions in a society with severe cemeteries of power and standards the owner of a bowling alley in orangeburg south. Carolina refused to integrate his business after a month of talks with local officials and black leaders. The owner persisted that he was not going to allow the black students to bowl on february. Fifth one thousand nine hundred sixty eight. A group of students from south carolina state entered the bowling alley in a non-violent request for service. The students left peacefully after they were asked to lead. More students arrive the next day and were met by an all white police force. Daily protests continued and tensions escalated until the night of february eighth nineteen sixty eight students started a bonfire at the front of the campus as means of carrying on their twenty four hour. Protest vigil as police environment attempted to put out that fire seven through something large. And it struck a patrolman. Highway patrol officers began firing into the crowd of around two hundred. Protestors twenty seven people were injured and three were killed a formative event for the whole of south carolina. Here again is executive director of the department of juvenile justice freddie pew i learned of the orangeburg massacre at doing freshman orientation at south carolina state. It is a huge topic in orangeburg all freshmen. Who lives with fresh medication out about it. And if you're a bulldog view you very familiar with orangeburg. Sadly enough at staying on south carolina's history is kind of brought to the forefront for every game in class at south cal state. I wanted to fill. You can go see that students who were shot because use folks won't be bowl. Charles mcdougall became painfully aware of institutionalized racism. On his first day in the south it wasn't nebulous. it wasn't merely a way of thinking jim. Crow was the manifestation of ordinances and policies set to perpetuate white supremacy by systematically disenfranchising blacks. But charles did not grow up in the south. Fortunately he was a resilient man and he had plenty of fortitude. The brutal encounter with the police did not diminish his resolve after he was discharged from the hospital. He attempted to catch a train back to school. As it turned out he would have another encounter in none other than orangeburg south carolina. It was there that his education into the southern rule of law resumed backed on very. And there's a god in on record at still but it was between the train station and the campus. And i was hurting from the beading so i took a shortcut to get back to the campus and was arrested because it was against the law by people to be in a public park except on a one day during the week and that was one of the days so i've been arrested for the third time in two days learn bay quickly. How much was off limits. If something said open to the public the men was closed. The black people and you'd be arrested if you would gold orangeburg ninety minutes. West of sumpter peewee openly expressed his discontent with the shifts in race relations especially sexual relations between races. There all kinds of ridiculous laws. I learned about at around that time like it was against the law for look at a white woman to look white woman in the face. It was a form of assault. The last states officially to legalize interracial marriage were south carolina in november nineteen ninety eight in alabama in two thousand. They amended their constitutions to repeal clauses banning marriage of a white person with a person of color a full thirty years after the supreme court case loving versus virginia in nineteen sixty seven. Here's philip perch cop. He was attorney plaintiffs. Richard and mildred loving a white man in african american woman in their lawsuit against the state of virginia. Today we consider the most odious of the segregation laws and the slavery law and our view of this law. We hope that clearly show is that there is slavery unable to wed in their home state of virginia. The couple married in washington dc. When they returned home they were arrested. Police cited virginia's anti miscegenation law known as the racial integrity. Act of nineteen. Twenty four counsellor. Rd mcelwain the third argued the state. The attitude which society has taught interracial marriages which in detailing his opposition says causes a child to have almost in super bowl difficulties in identification and that the problems with the child of an interracial marriage faces are those which no child can come through without damage to himself. It is not infrequent that the children of intermarried parents are referred to not merely as the children of intermarried parents but as the victims of intimate parents and as the models of intermarry these direct quotes from. The state of virginia argued in court. That separate was good and in everyone's best interest declaring that children of interracial unions would suffer discrimination in comparison to children with parents of the same race. South carolina had similar language in its constitution in order to uphold anti miscegenation as a moral good peewee individually represented. The loss causes behind these state laws. And all this. Systemic racism would manifest when peewee decided. He would be lynch mob for the law when he drowned. Doreen dempsey a nineteen year. Old pregnant mother and her two year old biracial child. Michelle robin Kyun on is no the most prolific online conspiracy theory of the twenty first century. Noon of their predictions came true. Hugh has vanished never came but cunanan is very much still alive now. Many people seem to think that because trump is no longer present. Didn't cunanan is over. Fortunately that's not the case. There were hundreds of thousands of still on and believe it or nope. Some of them still think cues so food plan is being followed to the tee. We'll be showing you that just because you know seeing it everywhere now doesn't mean cunanan has gone away. Join me joy. Conran the season. Two of q clearance. We'll be in. How hyun on the bold. Listen to q clearance on the iheartradio app us wherever you listen to podcasts. Introducing more dale a new iheartradio fiction thriller podcast from the creative minds of blood house and crip tv one month. After two brothers disappear. In the shadow of forest the lone survivor of the pair emerges starving disoriented and traumatized talking here. What are you talking about was to mrs susan. What happened out there in the woods and what dark secret still remain threatening to create something unspeakable look at this goal. No way this thing is a deer. Go look at the size of the teeth predator for sure. Beware the monster. You're running from mike. The ourself listen to more day on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts pee wee gaskins killed a pregnant mother doreen dempsey and her child in racially motivated. Murders to understand doreen story. We start with her sister. Barb snyder was thirty one and on her way to get a tattoo when she learned that the man she called dead was actually her uncle who had adopted her. When barb was a toddler i haven't amended birth certificate would shows. I'm born in south carolina. My original i have no idea. I've never seen it. I was shocked. I on this. Because i grew up not knowing adopted. Barbs husband chris. Snyder maintains a blog. They started to catalog barbs family tree as it came into focus over the years. They've spent researching. Barb isn't confident that she could put her story into words the way he can. She's a bit shy and asked that chris till most of her story. she grew up in cleveland. Ohio and got a call added the blue one day from a woman claiming to be her sister. Joy is the one that contacted barb. And said look on your sister. You've been adopted. So joy was the first sibling bar. Matt's barb was overwhelmed. Her adopted mother had died by the time joy calls so barb went to the man she called dad her whole life. He ended up under pressure that she and her brother john had been adopted as infants. They swore then that they would never tell the children of their birth parents. All the aunts and uncles went along with the story. They're adopted. Dad had to admit as well that their biological dad was the guy they had known. As uncle jim who had not been seen for decades he also knew her birth mother. Vivian and how to get in touch with her. Vivian and jim had five children. Including barb john and joy she had four other children with three different men. Jim barbs biological father left. Pennsylvania thirty years prior to join his father with the amusements of america. Carnival in sumpter south carolina. Vivian joined him on the road and they had an on again off again relationship. Here's chris snyder. Talking about vivian. She danced in cleveland. And i'm sure she danced in places and console vania depending on what the carnival was doing. At the time she danced with the carnival she would do burlesque in the forties and fifties but a subculture. There was different. It was kind of seedy. The carnival was rides and and games and things like that. And i figure that this is the part of the carnival that they were in. You know like a strip club almost on wheels. The glamorous life traveling with the carnival and stripping in this is just what they're doing to make some money deviance father-in-law in law made the costumes. She wore on stage. He was the carnival barker. Step right up. Kind of staff anti was a clown. Jim was the ticket taker. Vivian danced away on the east coast along the way she had nine children with four different men. Barb was vivians fourth child. We stayed in sumpter at the motel. There that's water vivian. Took me after i was born. That's the way the carney circuit a winstrom on my grandfather used to manage the motel. They put me in a drawer. That's where i slept for the first month of my life. When they would go on the road she would leave some of the kids with neighbors or whoever and in some cases they were turned over to the state. you know as abandoned children Sometimes they went into foster. Care for a while vivian. Sister and husband raised barb as their own soon after learning of her adoption. Barb ended up getting in touch with vivian and went to meet her in nineteen ninety-four. Chris wrote on family blog. That it wasn't exactly a hallmark channel reunion. Vivian wasn't completely opened with the details but she did agree to visit with barbara in her family for christmas that year. Third making things make friends. You know when you look at your childhood and you look back at things and you go. Oh it makes more sense now and when you look at pictures and you realize wow. She should've been huge agni-ii valley. Nothin never questioned it as a kid. Barb discovered that she was adopted back in ninety four and started searching for siblings which ended up taking quite a few years to locate. Everybody join new where some of their siblings were and helped. Barb track down the others. Barb ended up getting connected to all of her siblings. Except the oldest. Doreen one observation. That i can give you is that vivian lived her life that she was always the victim None of this stuff was her fault. She would blame the different man that she was with. And and none of it was responsibility. Joy grew up with vivian. In pennsylvania and remembered her oldest half sister would come and visit them sometimes in the summer. Doreen had come from south carolina up to reading to visit and spent some time. There must have spent part of a summer there and the one thing that joy remembers is that her sister. Her big sister brought her a puppy. So i was kind of a heart breaking part of that whole story. Doreen grew up for a while with. Vivian near sumter but was adopted by the dempsey family. At a young age she was around the carnival early and often. The sumpter newspaper reported that doreen dempsey spent a year in the pistol church home for children when she was thirteen. She had some contact with her birth mother. And met pee. Wee gaskins through vivian. They all were around the carnival. She finished ninth grade. Maclaurin junior high school and was expected to enroll in the local high school in nineteen sixty nine instead on the first day of ten grade. Doreen was married and expected to get aja. Her husband abandoned her three weeks later. When he joined the army unannounced she joined the job corps and was moved to tongue. Point training. Center in oregon. She left there after four months and returned to amusements of america. Were her father worked. It wasn't long after getting a carnival job that she met pee wee gaskins. They became friends and she moved into pee wee gaskins home for several months. His heating and air conditioning job kept him away from home while he traveled the state. So eventually doreen got bored and moved out after. Doreen left gaskins met and married sandy. Snell and she was soon pregnant with their child. Doreen reappeared also pregnant by different man. And the to pregnant women doreen and sandy lift with pee wee gaskins until his son was born. Doreen would relocate to a home for unwed mothers in charleston to deliver her own baby. Here's a need a baby talking about. It moved to a home for unwed mothers late in her pregnancy. The buildings still exists. It is a hospital but it was part of the florence kriton homes for unwed mothers that were started for women from families who couldn't have their babies because they were shaming to their families and had to go somewhere to have babies but there was a huge huge furor about them because they became sort of known as adoption mills. Doreen wanted michelle brabin to be. Her baby didn't come into the story was. She was pressured to give her up but she had no intention of doing that from what jim knows. In what peewee found out peewee and sandy went to visit doreen in the hospital after she delivered the baby. She named michelle robin dempsey. She called a robin. When pe- we saw the biracial baby all of his racial hatred emerged. He was furious. He had helped her mother. He had helped her giving them gifts giving her a home while she was pregnant. He told his attorney that he felt betrayed. When doreen left the home for unwed mothers she was not welcome. Back at pee. Wee's house he sent her to live with sandy's brother for a while. She leaves that house and moves in with karl sellers. He was part of the car theft ring and had recently gotten out of prison and peewee testified. That people thought doreen and carl should be together. And that's the way it was apparently for awhile. Car sellers how he escaped wrath know but p whatever bothering him did time served some time in jail when he was really. Kind of an untouchable hugest escaped everything. And everybody the fatal di was cast when kara learned that doreen was pregnant again. Kara was livid so he and his brother. Johnny sellers packed up doreen robin and their luggage and a car full of stolen televisions and drove up to see unannounced tears perpetrated by the same. It's a fair statement to say that we despised that action and activity. Indoor range live. I think he loves her at times but he hated that behavior. Doreen and the baby were taken to pee. Wee's compound learned prospect by the sellers brothers. Johnny salaries had taken them in and he couldn't stand it anymore so they simply loaded up with in the station wagon. they simply put her in. the car. took her to peewee peewee. Didn't even know they will come in there to sell his brothers during c. Robin dempsey to peewee. Not to kill her. Because johnny had led her them stay with him. He had no idea that what he was doing was bringing her and the baby to their deaths according to a deposition peewee told investigators quote. I told them. I could take care of her. And one thing led to another Walked around the house. I was going to talk to her and she was about seven months pregnant at the time again and so i asked her who the daddy. The kid was that she was carrying at the time and it was a black kid in quote. Peewee drown doreen in the pond behind his trailer. He left her their return to the front of the house. Took robin from the sellers. Brothers at told him to get going. He took her around the house and drowned the two year old beside her mother. He testified that he put the bodies in his for a short drive a he put them into the ground as he had the rest of the victims in the field simply covered them with cut-away branches leaves and such he was near the creek that runs by the field. They were found wrapped in plastic solicitor. Kim summer furred asked peewee quote. Are you telling me that the only reason that you kill doreen and this baby was because they didn't have a place to stay in quote gaskins replied no. No some referred asked well. Why did you kill doreen in the baby. Gaskins replied quote. Well tarim thought more of that than she did. A white man in quote now he killed during her baby because the father of the baby was a black man in hearings with sinister. Some of you did say in fact he said clearly how he killed them and some of we're getting mixed up to know that they were killed with a knife or with a gun the rifle and he had to say no they would drown. They both were drowned. Did he told. Jesse sandy carl johnny. The he had put doreen and robin on a train to pennsylvania her father. Jim called carl's house soon. After looking for doreen. And carl told him the story. He never checked her again. Pee wee later reported that he killed the toddler because she wouldn't have any kind of real life growing up as an orphan. Biracial baby beautiful little girl. Beautiful skin all of it. I can't read it or hear it without being completely done in. I come as close to hating peewee in that story and i do hate him. How could he talk that way about that. Baby that angel angel the baby robin nipsy. Machel robin dempsey. I love her name. A beautiful baby daughter of going dempsey drowned by the hands of the fish. Amen and associate as heavy as these deaths weighed on the babies. It was equally painful. For chris and barb snyder to learn this part of their story i think it was two thousand two that Finally put the facts together to find out the door and had been killed. Some of the siblings got together. We went out to dinner. This was the first time this group of kids that ever been together and their siblings and they had never been together like this and of course during gone so they all nine can never get together. Arben i came to this realization. Robin would turn fifty years old. This year that's hard for us to think about because we've been looking at these pictures of his toddler and robin actually is older than two of her uncle's got to the point where i really felt that we needed to find out where doreen was buried. And there was no information about that anywhere and i decided to start reading all of the old articles. And that's where it came up with. How get ling's name. There were a couple of articles written about during like this is the person in. This is what she was like. And i decided to reach out to holly because she was the only one that i could still fine. It's interesting sometimes. Think this story is behind me. And then i got an email from the husband of doreen. Dempsey's half sister. They are looking for the remains. Where is doreen spotty. And the baby They can't find a grave they can't find a paper trail for where the remains may be. You know were they cremated. Are they in a funeral. Hung somewhere responded was very helpful. Put me in touch with the acting. Sheriff who guests had worked the case. At the time he put me in touch with the acting coroner who was very helpful and called me back but went through all of his files and couldn't find any mention of what happened to the remains after the trial and suggested that i get with the public records department. So that's kind of how we got to where we are today. Saint to me particularly cruel to kill the baby and to do that just because the child was of mixed race is just reprehensible to me. That child was drowned along with her mother. Solely for that reason. If beth sweet how that bothered me a great deal Peak gaskins was not. My friend is joint production from iheartradio and doghouse mixture produced and hosted by jimmy executive producers courtney to freeze and noah brown written by robert courtney freeze and terry james at it knicks and sound design by jeremiah kalani prescott music composed by diamond street productions spencer guard and the in newberry special thanks to jim and anita beatty additional thanks to the university of south carolina moving image research collections and the university of south carolina is now the most prolific online conspiracy. Theory of the twenty first century of their predictions came. True hugh has vanished came. The on is very much still alive. Join me jake. Hanrahan for season. Two of q clearance. We'll be documenting. How cunanan is a vol- listen to q. Clearance on radio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Didn't catch the latest ruling. Morton unfiltered podcast. 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Interview with Jeff Keating: Pee Wee Gaskins Was Not My Friend

Stuff They Don't Want You To Know Audio

58:16 min | 3 months ago

Interview with Jeff Keating: Pee Wee Gaskins Was Not My Friend

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Hello welcome back to the show. My name is matt. My name is null. They called me bed. We are joined does always with our super producer. All mission control decades. Most importantly you are you. You are here and that makes this the stuff. They don't want you to new a quick disclaimer as get into days. Show fellow conspiracy realist. This episode contains at times. Graphic descriptions of violent crime and as such may not be suitable for all listeners. We are not diving into today's story alone. Stead we are accompanied very fortunately accompanied by jeff keating of filmmaker podcast her founder of doghouse pictures and the creator of numerous shows and award winning documentaries as such as living his winning as well as his podcast fight. Today we're excited to have jeff here in digital person to tell us a little bit more about his newest show pee. Wee gaskins was not my friend which delves deep into the story of south carolina's most notorious mass murderer and someone many people surprisingly enough have have not heard about welcome to the show. Jeff thanks so much for coming jeff. What's up guys. Thank you so much for having me really appreciate it jeff. It's interesting and i worked together on a couple of other projects in the past including the the show that ben mentioned fight night which is in and of itself a really cool show about this massive kind of like underworld heist that takes place here in atlanta where we're all recording your an atlanta native as well It takes place on the night of the big mohammed. Ali comeback fight. Yeah we're kind of a different direction. for pee. wee gaskins was not my friend It really is another story of kind of the new. Are you know aspects of the south But very much just a story about a truly cold-blooded psychopath That many people have not heard of How how would you describe pee wee gaskins people that maybe aren't familiar with his Twisted legacy will the name itself because first of all. I was like you know team. I know much about peewee myself. I rarely even heard of them. And i'm a true crime fanatic. I've covered this obviously for fifteen twenty years as far as just really enjoying stories. Now i tend to lean more towards mob true crime. That's my i guess there's a sub genre within true crime. That's that's my favorite. But i also love serial killers. The show minehunters on netflix. And some other things like that. I really enjoyed that kind of stuff. So peewee when. I first heard about him. The name obviously grabbed me and then when i found out his stature how small he was that was kind of interesting to see and once i looked into who this guy was a little bit more and seeing again just how small he was and how high pitched his voice was. It was just a weird dichotomy between the violent crimes that he committed and he was again. Oftentimes you know somebody could have a big chip on their shoulder or could be pushed to the limit for certain things but whenever you have somebody so small with such a high pitch voice. You usually don't put those two things together. So when i started to understand his crimes and who he was that was very interesting. And then i realized who this guy was which was a master manipulator a trailer park kingpin of sorts somebody. That head traveled with the carnival ring for years and the people that traveled with. Him seemed to be a good fit for what he was doing. Car thefts petty. Thefts things like that so very interesting character and just to stay in this realm before even get into the crimes of donald pee wee gaskins. Ask you about a story that was told in the latest episode of the podcast. Came out this past monday. I think it was called loved her to death. And there's a story in there. Where a former employer of pee. Wee's tells a story about peewee strength and the story is about somebody with a tire like a truck tire. Do you remember that. Can you tell us that story. I do because the employer did mention that and so i think it had something to do with like physically. Maybe getting the rim off now again. I'm not a big car guy. you know. One of those people could change tires on might have changed one before. But i think it had something to do with getting the rim off of the tire itself using very little tools or minimum tools. And the way that that employer described it the strength to do that is very very difficult even with the tools themselves. So yes i agree with you and i don't even know if we put this story in as well matt but he also was known to like lift huge tons or things over his head so his strength was massive especially for the also add experience with a great experience with automobiles in general right he had already. He also trained himself to have a very powerful karate. China's right by by basically using the metal end of his bed and hitting it repeatedly. And i mean hundreds or thousands of times to build up that muscle or whatever it was. I think we may even cover that story. More a little bit in this upcoming episode. But but yeah and then again guys you know you got to imagine you're in reform school in all of these things early on you're probably beat up for your stature. So you're just building a toughness. A nails tough exterior throughout your whole life because of again your environment. You know what you were. Exposed to early on the beatings. All of that stuff. This guy was no joke. Want to expand on what you brought up matt the idea of anecdote here. Jeff i in the course of this show. The listener encounters multiple people who've had personal experience with gaskins. And one thing that's fascinating before we even get to the first episode just overall one thing that was fascinating to me is that many of these people come to some surprising agreements about the nature of gaskins character and one thing that really stood out was oddly. Enough people would talk about how he was at times. Apparently charming and charismatic said he was a monster in human flesh and other folks said that the said like he was actually. He could seem really friendly. If you didn't know who you were talking to and that because that surprised me. I wanted to ask you in the course of this story. What surprised you were there. Any things really really surprised you about the way people talked about gaskins or his interactions. Well here's what i do it again. A lot of people stories in different ways. I'm not an investigative reporter and there's a lot of people that do true crime that have either that background or approach it that way. I approach it more of a story. That i'm interested in. I'm a guide for the audience. Sometimes i have some unknown things that come my way that i just wanna explore that. I think the audience will be interested in as well and so with this particular guy in this case when i first heard about it and you guys. I'm sure. Imagine this as well. It's like this is a serial killer or mass murderer. How can you fall for this behavior. Whatever it is but then you hear over the past many of these famous serial killers. Mass murderers how charming they are how they can ingratiate themselves into communities or families or groups or whatever it is and so i thought i put myself back in these guys shoes years ago and i was like. There's no way you would fall for that. But i was never in front of this guy. I was never faced with his with his charm or manipulation. Or the power of this guy staring at you from across the table or making a deal with you whatever it was so you think it may be one way. But you've never faced this guy personally. And so as much. As i tried to imagine that i really had to listen to all these people that actually had faced and come in contact with him and realize man. This guy was a snake charmer this guy rising manipulator and and you may think that you could fight his charming abilities but most oftentimes. You could not can't out slither a snake right. This is something. I thought a lot about with the very first episode. Where you do something fascinating this. This isn't a spoiler here. It folks as soon as you tune in. We don't start in a linear way right. We don't start at gaskins. Birther is childhood or as i crime but with a nother story that takes place while gaskin is already incarcerated. What inspired you to approach it from this angle particularly we needed to basically have set up for the show of one of the main murders which you see in that first one is rudolph tyner and how it really connects to all the past murders and the unwitting accessory of that last murder. And how he or she is going to play a part in this entire podcast so it was unusual the way we did it. It's almost kind of like a standalone story but we felt to book in this podcast with that particular crime and murder. And is you'll see at the very end how it all plays out. It was the perfect way to tie it. All in. you know it's interesting. I think it's probably best left for folks to experience this themselves without going into the details of this crime malicious. Suffice it to say that Gaskins a very very clever way orchestrates essentially a hit on a man that he doesn't like but from within prison and that's a key. I think to gaskins personality. A man that he doesn't like gaskins had a code he didn't he wasn't like other serial killers who killed out of some perverse fetish or some sort of like drive to feed this hunger. He was more like a mafiose o or something he. He bumped people off who. He didn't feel his standards Or in some way you know had wronged him or he wanted to get rid of a rival. Can you tell us a little bit about you. Know his personal code. And what are some of the things that might have put you. Are i on pee-wee's hitlist before it gets to that. It's a good question. You tapped on something. I'm a big fan of subcultures so like in fight night. The subculture was hustler's of the early seventies in in atlanta. And then travelling up to new york down to miami but really getting into the world in the subculture of these hustlers. So in this particular story. It's basically a trailer park kingpins and traveling carnivals and the people that were in these traveling carnivals and type of work environment that they were in and the way they became family in an unusual way so that was interesting for me to explore that. And then pee. Wee's relationship to that noll was basically. His code was a couple of things. Betrayal was something that he despised. I think the most of anything one of his codes or part of his codes was you. Don't talk outside the circle. And that was. I love this phrase. I'm not sure if jim our one of our main characters or p we came up with this but it was called jawline you don't you don't go jal into the police or to other members in the community and i assume that means speak out of turn so jawline was one of the big things of his code. Another thing that was interesting was he was protectors supposedly of children and younger people for certain things profanity. Certain behaviors around them and again. He goes on to kill though these younger people and in fact a lot of the people that ended up falling to his knife or gun word younger especially women but for some reason that was a protector side. So profanity was a big thing. I heard he rarely ever if ever cussed and hate it when people did it maybe in front of him but specifically in front of children that was another part of his code. But the biggest one. Noel i would be the portrayal. Meaning do not cross him and specifically the jawline. Don't talk about me or my crimes are what we're doing to anybody else. You know. it's interesting. You say that jeff because we see some of those i guess a wait a vastly understated. Is we see some of those moral dichotomies or contradictions in a lot of extremely disturbed people even to the point of seeing it in fiction like anne in misery right who also hates cursing. Stephen king's misery. Good this leads me to think you know when we're talking a little bit about the mind of someone who's a mass murderer. A serial killer. Another interesting thing. Is that gaskins like other folks like henry. Lucas and so odd was prone to bouts of embellishments exaggeration and investigators suspect in many in some cases outright lying before he was put to death by the state of south carolina back in nineteen ninety-one about fifty eight years old. He had made statements. Claiming you know i've committed many more murders i've committed more than a hundred murders right. How how many of two hundred. It's a very strange. I mean usually psychologists push for notoriety. But my question for you is when you were speaking with people familiar with the case. How how much weight to investigators put in his statements there. You've got one person you speak with. Who says everybody who says when he was getting calls from people in as far away as australia to talk about to talk about gaskins crimes they kept trying to get him to agree with these higher numbers and he refused to. So what's the truth. Do we know or will we ever know we don't know and that's what i find so fascinating and i think with any of these true crime cases in less. Maybe you've got one hundred witnesses that see exactly what's going on. You have forensics evidence. You have witnesses you have investigators but unless you're actually there for these murder themselves we just don't know so i would say ben as a whole that most people thought it came in around eleven or twelve murders and that the legend of all those additional murders was just that of sometimes people talking of reporters covering stories of people gossiping around a community. And is you know. Things grow from there so i would say as a whole the people that we talked to in the investigators and attorneys and prosecutors stuff felt. It was around a dozen and the rest became legend. Now again the legend can sometimes become so powerful and become so useful even for a serial killer as well. But we don't know ben. I'll always find that a good place to rest because it allows us to examine the evidence ourselves and make a decision based on what we hear what we think based on all this stuff and these stories and this transcripts and stuff. Where do we think the truth lies. You know your other. Forgive my ignorance here jeff. But i i imagined that some of those legendary things or maybe even things that actually happened. That just can't be proven occurred when he was traveling with the carnival or something. Some things occurred that we just no one will ever know about. And i just wondered if you thought maybe that was even a possibility. I think that's a very fair to say matt because again if you're talking about somebody that can do this once and has been accused and convicted of these crimes and then ultimately executed which we know he was. We don't know what he was doing all the time or things that could have been left and you know if you're having these bodies buried and burial fields in one place what's going on somewhere else and we don't know if he gets angry at one guy that somebody didn't cover years ago so i would assume guys. Wouldn't you imagine that cases like that all over the country in the world yes absolutely would just gonna take a little break here word from our sponsor. We'll be right back. No one is reading your mind. But hp instant inc knows when you're printers running low and send you new cartridges. So you never have to think about inc. save up to fifty percent. You'll pay less than five dollars a month for inc and never run out again. Find out if your printers eligible and enroll today. 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Ut we talked a good bit already about his kind of outsized Mythical persona that really was this kind of disconnect from his actual stature and like the like you says kind of like high pitched voice which i think probably caused a lot of people to underestimate him and he was also a master manipulator in that he was even able to kind of get the cops office trail literally just like by kind of gives throwing them this like diversion. Like there's a. There's a part where he's like working under a a a truck or something and the cops looking for him in connection to a disappearance and he just says no pee wee gaskins here basically literally. It's just like the most base he had this confidence. I think that was infectious. And i think that's what led to this sort of cult of personality. You see with this weird ragtag band of characters that he sort of had under his sway. He almost as this kind of weird cult leader figure in some ways but your friend And also someone who is a very important part of the story. Dr jim beattie had a really interesting with peewee. He Both academically and personally And he really gives an incredible perspective on a lot of these stories in the podcast. Can you speak a little bit about how you got connected up with dr beatty and and what their relationship was yes. So a colleague of mine. And good friend courtney freeze new the beatty family and suggested based on the fact that he knew jim dr beatty had done all these interviews with peewee may be great podcast and a great way to explore a different angle of somebody that actually sat across the table from him for seventy one hundred interviews and so i was like well this would be first of all just a fascinating guy to talk to so when i was able to finally meet him and his wife anita. Who's in the podcast. As well i really was interested in wanted to explore the story of two different men. Both who grew up very close to each other geographically. I think it was eighty miles apart. Both who are very close in age to three years apart. Both who had worked in some of the same places even though at different times campbell soup factory that they came to know once those interviews started and how they ended up with such different lives again. Jim family may end literary professor ordained minister. And then pee wee gaskins a mass murderer family as well but you know six different wives. If i'm not mistaken not sure how many kids. But he had a few and it drew me to one of the things that i'm always interested in exploring which is nature versus nurture. So jim has this beautiful lovely upbringing. Peewee supposedly had very rough tough childhood. Maybe some abuse some sexual abuse that happened to him so jim wanted to explore this as well as did i. If if pee wee's upbringing his difference if he's loved as a child if he you know is not sent to these tough reform school early on if he's given a full education does he wind up different and and i always fascinated exploring that question. I'm so glad you see that jeff because this leads us to another commonality that experts perceive in mass murderers serial criminals sexual saulters and the like. Which is that many many serial murderers seem to have these horrific childhoods right and we know that gaskins criminal career started at a very young age with a troubled trio. They call themselves. I think somewhere in like eleven to thirteen years old. And i have a two part question but it's a tough question to really get our minds around. I don't know where will fall on the on the nature versus nurture debate. But it felt like some of the people that you encounter in the course of your journey have come to a conclusion that some folks are simply borne evil. Did you run into winter. Talking with people did anybody bring up this nature versus nurture argument. And if so how did they approach. How did they grapple with this. Will i feel. Jim definitely felt there was a. What's the right word. Feel like jim thought that there was a direct correlation between the two and he felt pretty strongly that if p we had a loving family or different upbringing that his life would have been different. I feel some of the reporters and some of the. I don't know if we did any psychologists. But i feel there was some other people that felt the same way jim did. There may have been a couple people that leaned towards born evil. But i really think after. They looked at the whole life that it was just this was an evil man and they couldn't put their fingers on exactly where that all began. When you go back to your first part of the question been my thought is from the fifteen twenty thirty years of exploring these stories. I can't find one. Serial killer or murderer did didn't have a bad upbringing. I'm still trying to find that one. In fact i was just laughing about this. The other day the one movie i think it was with nicholas cage and it was called eight millimeter about that and ultimately at the end even though he was in this dark crazy world the antagonise of the movie the killer set says i had a loving and i didn't believe it ruined the movie for says i was like no i'm every study we've explored has pointed to a traumatic past it. Felt like the script writer. Said this is the twist you know. I think it felt that way agree with you. Felt that way because those that commonality is so. It occurs at such a distressingly frequent level. You know i also trying to. I've been trying to find someone who had like a happy home life owed unquote whatever that means. I think you're on the money. There and listen. Trauma is a very serious thing guy whether it be war whether it be abuses child you know psychological it could be physical or mental but especially early on. I mean again. I think most scientists our doctors will agree with this. When you have something traumatic it could affect your life from there on out. Either you have to deal with it and you have to recover from it or it can affect your behavior moving forward. And so if you're really having beatings or mental abuse or whatever it may be early on i can see how that affects the line to these stories of these mass murderers and serial killers. Well you know again. I keep going back to the contradictions of his life because there are a lot of stories where he seems to be he seems to do something out of just the kindness of his heart for someone in this latest episode. There's a story about an elderly woman that comes to him with a problem with their transmission. And like it's incredible. What ends up doing. Could you just tell that. Because i think that's really like speaking to when we're talking about good versus bad versus nature and nurture like the fact that this guy who has done these horrible things we know of already and this elderly woman says i need held transmission. What does he do. He ends up stealing a transmission from a car that is just like hers and then putting that transmission into her car fixing it for this lovely senior citizen. I think he barely charged her. Anything you know. Maybe a few bucks. But that's that's such a great example. And no you were talking about this earlier about moral code. This moral code is so gray. It's like he does something illegal to do something. Good and i think the balance of pewee and many of his actions show that throughout his life so he felt hey. I'm gonna do what i need to help this lady. Even though it's going to be you know an illegal activity or taking from somebody else and peewee was notorious for deeds and behaviors like that. Oh there's just one last story guys in stop talking about this. There's a young woman who moves in with him and his wife at the time. I can't remember exactly which wife it was. I'm so sorry that i can't recall that right now. Jeff but a young woman who moves in with a very tiny child as super sick like the child is extremely sick but pewee ends up using his funds in his time and effort to nurse. That child like back to health and it's not his child. It's just a it's a another woman's child and to me. That is so strange in. It does make me wonder about if it's him doing something. Get all psychologists here doing something for another child. That maybe wasn't done for him. We're like a kindness shown to another child. That wasn't done for him but he's also a child killer so anyway. My brain is exploding thinking about all that. Don't even have a question here for you. It's hard it's hard to wrap your head around those stories. So that's a good example. There's other ones that will let the audience here within the podcast where he literally cares for babies or toddlers or young children but a lot of these people or young babies children become his victims. So it's really hard to wrap your head around all of this and again we're not in this world of this trailer park kingpin and this guy that was with people working in the traveling carnivals who i hear had transient lives to begin with and may not have the connection to family except for the people working in the carnivals themselves so it's hard to understand this sometimes mad it really is it is but i also think there's a lot of parallels in one of my first questions i mentioned i really see a connection between him and like the mafia like the code of omerta. You know your your family until the moment you break that code and then you're dead to me literally and figuratively And i it's a people really sick of hearing about it. But i you know the sopranos is one of my favorite shows and i think tony soprano is really interesting anti hero because he nurtured so many people while also on the other side ruining so many lives And he you know he will be this advocate for people until they cross in the wrong way and then he won't think twice because he feels justified in doing it because they broke the code And to me. That's that's what he's doing He's obviously a terrible person. But also has this. You know nurturing side He's a very complex character. I think you know and he needs to retain the power and authority and also avoid prison. So there's many things that peewee was constantly doing within these relationships that were important to him. I've got to maintain my power. If somebody knows about a crime that i've committed i am going to implicate them in that crime so that they become an accessory. He was brilliant. That okay fine. You're going to john about me. I'm gonna take you down with me. And so that was something that we constantly thinking about that plays into our unwitting accessory in our story and how pee wee on weaknesses of people use them to leverage things that he needed within his authority and within the power circles that he ruled so that was very important dole and how he used that behavior. I think you to that point that that is one of the primary explanations for how a person's criminal career like this could last so long you know he's in out of the system but he keeps slipping away. I do want to go back to the conversation. You and matt were having jeff. Because i think i think it raises an important points for storytelling. All as well which is maybe a little bit abstract but one thing that is always at the front of my mind when we're exploring a violent tales things of this nature on on our show and stuff there and what she knew is how to accurately depict a crime a criminal conspiracy without glorifying the villains or exploiting the tragedies of the victims. And your your work i think threads this lying perfectly. You don't shy away from gaskins crimes and you shouldn't But you're also pointing out these other things things we've called contradictions and you're giving voice to the survivors. You know the investigators people involved in more. How how do you as a creator. Navigate that line between like telling the story with the accuracy and fullness it deserves while also making space for the human lives that have been impacted by this criminal. We made a conscious effort early on my writing team. Which was jim. Roberts courtney to freeze and terry james and we knew that we wanted to shy away from going deep into the gory. Details and really be able to focus on the victims story. We felt it was important that the audience get to know. These families. young girls toddlers whoever might have been a victim so they understand the seriousness of these crimes and the lives that he was able to stuff out and again we were conscious as we were riding and putting this together trying to get the balance because some of these are obviously very scary stories that we wanted to pull the audience in to the visual scenes that were happening but obviously not focused too much obviously on the act itself but on the result which was the victims and the lives. That were ruined. Yeah we'll put. I just wanted to see personally. I appreciate that. And i found it impressive of. I think that's something that old that that a lot of people who listen to this show are going to recognize. So i guess that's less of a question than a little bit of fan mail. Sorry about that japanese. We've actually got some responses that have Talked about that as well. And you know nolan. I discussed this with these true crime. Podcast there are topics and things that the audience likes to hear. We want to make sure that we cover those topics but there were some deep dives. Obviously that we wanted to explore as well again personally. I love the subculture which i thought the audience with which was the trailer parks in the traveling carnivals. Then you got on jim side. Who's doing these interviews. You've got a literary professor across the table from a mass murderer and so again the balance between these personalities how they perceived life how they perceive family how they perceived relationships was fascinating to me. So i really wanted to get into the gym and pee wee story and i thought the audience would really enjoy that because it's a different angle to peewee. Gaskin said people had heard. I mean no one heard this story before because again jim hadn't really publicly talked about these fifty plus interviews. He had i thought the audience would love that. Your audience does love that Jim in anita They're fantastic in the show. I want to ask you about somebody who would have said. I think maybe. Correct me. If i'm wrong here. Who would have said pee. Wee gaskins is my friend. A man named walter neely. Can you tell us a little bit about that character. Who walter's the tough one. So i will say you could define walter as pee. Wee's friend and right hand man. I think for a stretch walter would say that peewee is his best friend and again i just wasn't there and these relationships but i feel like p we knew who walter was a slower guy potentially patsy somebody who he could possibly push some of these crimes and convictions on at some point a guy he knew that may not be mentally tough enough if things came down to the wire where he could rely on him he had some almost like savant like abilities. Did he did. Especially when you're talking about again. You know petty crimes stealing deal in cars exactly mechanically cars just a master of that so when we talk about intelligence we talking about book smart so we talking about street smarts. Walter had some definite intelligence to him. He just may have not been the smartest guy in the room. When you're talking about walking that fine line of life that's a good way to put it in some ways he reminds. I mean this is maybe a little off but just immediately when his character is introduced He reminds me of the lenny character to the george character. Face or knoll of mice and men right Perfect example because george is sort of the swindler hustler kind of guy and lenny is sort of his sidekick who sort of brings along for the ride and sort of takes advantage of And then obviously things go very badly as also it ends up being the case in in this story But i think that relationship is fascinating because there is some love their true real love but also it's very functional relationship. I agree and it's such a great piece of literature that you pointed out and that is one question now that you point that out and all that. I wish i would've asked jim about that specific piece of literature and the comparison between george. Linney and peewee. Walter be fascinating to hear of professor weigh in on. That wouldn't it. Yeah absolutely and we'll pause for word from our sponsors then return with more jeff keating lou. Hutton iced sunrise batch coffee from dunkin a bright and balanced full-body bland. So you can get summering from sunrise to sunset in even after that. Because that's when you can show off those string lights you hung in the backyard or rehome enjoy a medium hotter ice sunrise batch coffee for two dollars. America runs on dunkin price and participation may vary limited time offer exclusions apply iheartradio presents right now from los angeles switch hours ago suffered the largest earthquake in north american history. A new dramatic thriller or as we can tell the earthquake soccer. The new landmass out here starring. Sarah wayne kelly's my girl's thin out there on that island. Jeffrey dean morgan. There are courses all over the south land. This isn't a conspiracy. It's natural disaster and david harbour. Dangerous out there. I don't care. I have to go get her. All right i get. It looked company. You'll go to the island after shop. When did i tell you this is a good place. People find each other here. There are two dozen dead bodies rotting pile and two survivors. You're sure but there's eight volunteers willing to get shot before the rest of you could stop a spot to get the gun aftershock. Listen and follow on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back jeff own. Ask you about the eve of the women in in pee wee's life. You mentioned earlier that he had five. I think i think it was six wives in total but many times when he did have a spouse and they were living together the living situation would be odd where there would be another person living with them who was also love interest or he would he would find a new love and get married and the ex wife would still live in the same place where he was living. There's just a lot of weird situations going on with him and the women in his life just wonder if there's if you saw any patterns there if there's any stories you'd like to tell us about that crazy situation and here's something where i think didn't may be used the best His wits about he's got all these different relationships and women flown everywhere to wives. I think if i remember this correctly he was married to a few women at the same time illegally like he just goes out and gets another marriage license and and so he may call them x. because maybe they're living someone else but i know there was several occasions where he had one or two women living in his house or trailer park with them at the same time. But pee wee. You gotta know. There's going to be a lot of jal in if you do that. There's gonna be a lot of talk and gossip so that was one thing that i kind of giggled about. If you're trying to keep a close knit circle and maybe again he uses the power and influence and the manipulation and the fact that he's financially taking care of all these people to control that situation but we're gonna get out. Yeah and my understanding. Is that many of these. Women were significantly younger than him between ten twenty years younger than him. So i can only. I don't know it's it's weird. It goes back to the contradiction thing debt. Because that's a good point they were and so again. When you've got that much age gap the power to control and manipulate and especially maybe even look him as a father figure. I can see where that can. He feel like he could control that situation but again i just don't know if he thought dot clearly about all of this stuff because that's one thing again when you have so many different relationships going on relationships tougher even the most normal of us so anyway it's funny. I think it goes to the heavily impulsive reactive nature of his mind. One thing that always stands out is is the description of how he would have intrusive thoughts. That's what psychologists call but he does in called in that right. he calls them. What is jeff bothersome. He says. I have these bothersome thoughts. Yes that's one of the words. I used that's another question that comes up with many of these cases. Clearly there's a capability for forethought reich. Clearly there's a capability for planning right implicating somebody else making them an accomplice to avoid to avoid join writer the threat thereof but in in your from your perspective how much of his how many of his crimes were like planned in advance versus just those reactions of of something misfiring in his mind. I feel like pee. Wee's reaction to jawing and betrayal may not have triggered these deaths in crimes. Initially like my guesses. They didn't happen like an impulse relaxing. But they triggered something in pee. Wee's mind like this guy or this man or this child is is going to go down and so the plans started to churn in his mind and i feel at that point been there was no coming back from him like i. Would you know whether questions i would love to ask. Peewee. if he was still alive was hey. Did anybody walk away from betraying jawing from you. You know i mean. I think there's a couple out there that maybe he just never had a chance to get to but if he was ever able to walk back that impulsive thought that he ultimately normally acted on. There was probably a point of pride for him not to do that. Which makes more or maybe even that code is well been like you know. This is part of the code and now and this has to happen now and maybe same with other criminal like you have to set an example right like if i let this guy go and do this. What is everybody else gonna do to me. I think that's a common theme and a lot of criminal organizations. I want to give a quick example of the kinds of things that associate may be john about just so we. We have a picture. Here you you speak to someone. They market o'shea who tells a story about one like one of the schemes. Basically that he had come up with so for a time he will be working at a tobacco plantation or tobacco field and he and usually in associate would like clear all the tobacco that was stored up in a farm that had been cultivated. They cleared out of the or like take away basically to go sell it to somebody else right correct. And then they'd set the barn on fire. Correct they would make the money off of that crop but then the insurance company would pay the plantation owner the tobacco owner for that crop so it he basically doubled the money in the value of that tobacco by stealing it in an arson So you know. He's got an associate working with him on that. So if that associate goes john at a local la- same bar or something telling people about it. Then he's implicated in a serious crime so it's just a just want to give you an example there. Are there any other examples of town of the schemes that he would get up to yet. And let's use an example one of the murders. Because i think it's an hour into the names of the murder so the audience can enjoy him. But there's one murder that comes up where he basically because somebody's asked him to do a hit or at least a quiet. Somebody is a better way to put it but it turns into a murder and he brings these people with him makes them look at the dead body and basically says to him. You are now in accessory and if you go john's anybody else you're going first of all kill you. Let me just start with that. But even if for some reason you get away from the clutches. And i get you know put down. You're going down with me. Which by the way ultimately happens. So yeah he. He's he's going to tie you up all of this matt. He he's going to tie you up. Man getting outs okay pee. Wee's web no good i would. That's very gritty sequel to charlotte's web. I think they peeve raise the matic charlotte was so loving. Nice to wilbur and peewee. Oh my goodness so right now. Just in full disclosure as we are recording this interview. I don't know how the story fully ends. We're not to the last episode yet so everybody you should know that jeff did not give us give us too many spoilers. So we're listening right along with you. As as the show comes out and one of the questions that i really wanted to ask you is what lessons do do. We hope people can take from this narrative. What what can this story tell us. How can because. When i listened to this one of the things that struck me is this is this is important. This is informative. People should know the full story right of something that for many people may have just been a headline rate in their local news. So what what do you think people can take from this show and how can knowing the full breadth of this story. a how can it help authorities. How educate the public going forward. I think one of jim's children. And i just can't remember who said it right now spoke to that specifically and jim was talking to his son about this. How there are so many people especially young people out in the world. You don't know what's going on with him. It could be homeless. it could be family life. It could be an. He used a specific words. I hope it comes to me out. Layers maybe the word. He used stronger than that. And were so used again specifically this past year with the pandemic being in our bubble our kids that are close to us are loving wife or husband or aunts and uncles grandmas and grandpas that are close and our friends that are connected to that but there are so many. there's so much more going on in the communities underneath what we see that the authorities deal with but again they've got their hands full with so much going on as well so i think it's important for us to understand and maybe keep an eye out for the outliers. The people need to be brought into the world of good health and good education. And just don't know there's so many lost lives guess. Ben is a good way to put it. they're so many lost lives. And i don't mean lost like they've been killed but lost his in their walking out in the world with no guides and no love and no hands to hold them and when that happens you have a much better chance to be killed or taken or kidnapped or whatever. The violent act may be and at this point as we said before we don't want to spoil the story. It is a journey that you should take for yourself. Don't take our word for it. Check it out yourself pee. Wee gaskins was not my friend created by jeff. Kaeding episodes are available now. we like. You can't wait to hear how it ends jeff. In the meantime. I thank you so much for coming on the show today. But in the meantime what other projects are you working on either as an individual or through doghouse pictures we. We'd love to learn more about your work. I've got two more podcasts. I'm developing now. One is a cold case and the other is an international murder. Which i'm so excited to explore. I've got a feature film that i'm developing called. Follow me which is based on a critically acclaimed short story of the same name by a wonderful author named paul griner. And it's the story about a female photographer who hires a private investigator to follow her. And take pictures. But when the gig wraps the pictures don't stop and become more and more invasive and intimate relationship of diving into kind of self exploration and this world of photography and really a visual medium that we're excited to dive into that sounds gloriously creepy and again i just want to add to jeffords. It's it's really been a pleasure working with you on this one and also fight night. I in one commonality between those two. I think both of us had a good time helping. Develop the score To these podcasts. With some amazing local atlanta Studio musicians of the diamond street players which is sort of collective with Fight night we went in a really cool kind of james brown kind of gritty new york kinda funk sound and for this one it really does mimic that dusty carnival kind of like you know funhouse kind of vibe really really impressed with the way it turned out and it really is kind of a cool Cohesive piece of this show since wanted to put that out there too if you're into creepy music and The way it's incorporated into podcast. It's not overplayed. I think it's done really tastefully. And i think you guys did an excellent job of incorporating all that stuff that we worked with those guys on so kudos for that and just to kind of wrap things up guys to the process. We didn't get into the process much. I know that wasn't part of the show with the process of podcasting is just fascinating. It's so much fun. And so i had a fantastic team on this one again. Knowles been might ep on both projects. Dan bush who you spoke of was my director on fight night but our writers researchers who i mentioned earlier according to freeze jim robertson terry james our editor jeremiah prescott. I mean it's really especially when you do. These limited narratives true crimes. The teams are so important. We got a great team that works with us a doghouse pictures so i just want to give thanks to them and again thanks to the audience. You guys have grabbed onto this thing. We've got a bunch of listeners. Some great reviews. And i just really appreciate everybody. That's out there listening and Has been following the story. Yeah so follow their q. And listen and review now on apple podcasts. The iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcast and to learn more of for yourself. You can go to doghouse. Pictures dot com to get a bigger breath of jeff's work not just in the world of podcast but well beyond thank you as so much for tuning in folks. Let us know your thoughts which are make it easy to find us online. That's right you can find us on most of the internet locations of note. We are on facebook and twitter and youtube as conspiracy stuff were conspiracy stuff show on instagram. And while you're listening in reviewing podcasts why not give us a review as well Preferably on the apple platform any pod catcher the let's review where we're here for it. That's right you know you can get in touch with over the phone one. Eight three three s. t. dwi t k. Leave a message. Let us know what you like to call us and please note. We can use your message on air if you have too much to say. That's okay you can always contact us with our good old fashioned email address. We are conspiracy at iheartradio dot com stuff. They don't want you to know is a production of iheartradio for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows new. Hutton iced sunrise batch coffee from dunkin a bright and balanced full-body blend food. So you can get summering from sunrise to sunset and even after that. Because that's when you can show off those string lights hung in the backyard or rehome enjoy a medium hotter iced sunrise batch coffee for two dollars. America runs on dunkin price and participation may vary limited time offer exclusions. Apply arm dr payment daniel. And i'm dr john lakey. We invite you to listen to our new podcast forever. Young together were partners in practice at beverly hills plastic surgery group the renowned plastic surgery center in the heart of beverly hills california. Join us every tuesday as we put you under the knife and offer a glimpse behind the surgical mask into the fascinating world of cosmetic surgery. The latest breakthroughs and skin care and what you can do to look and feel forever young forever. young premieres july twenty first. Listen on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. 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Loved Her To Death

Pee Wee Gaskins Was Not My Friend

51:00 min | 4 months ago

Loved Her To Death

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Join the thousands of people with clear vision. Thanks to dr. Boutros of top surgeons in virginia with five locations schedule. Your free lasik consultation at the center dot com today in the six years of pee. Wee's murderous streak. He killed several women in his circle. At least a dozen of them moved in and out of his bedroom whether as wives or live in lovers often at the same time often an abusive ways like property he gave women two other men around him including walter. Neely jesse. Judy moved out of pee. Wee's house to live with johnny sellers. Her new lover they were later found buried together in pee. Wee's field of death. Jesse tutor which thrown away to happen live. Who killed them. If anybody do us doing side the house it would never believe everybody knew. Half what he talked about choppy just made out. That's it would you ever lied to me and said yes from iheartradio app doghouse pictures. This is peewee. Gaskins was not my friend. I'm jeff keating In one thousand nine hundred seventy six peewee claimed that he killed pet cut. No he didn't of course but he was banking on the goodwill. It would generate with his fellow inmates once in prison. Taking blame for somebody else's crime was a big deal but for peewee to stay out of prison was a different story altogether. It meant manipulating threatening and controlling. People though skills were never more evident than with pee. Wee's three friends sandy. Snow gaskins walter. Neely and donna carillo. Sandy snell gaskins the fifth wife. Who's at that time. Living in the same house with the six wife told the police. That peewee and kim often in prospect. So that's how the case open sandy. Snell was married to pee wee gaskins before donna cruella came along. Sandy and donna accepted the arrangement and were both living with peewee when the charleston police knocked on their door and ask them about a missing girl. Sandy told them she had recently seen peewee with thirteen year. Old kim calkins and that the two of them had gone to prospect. That's when the entire investigation shifted to pee wee gaskins and his friend walter neely. Sandy was very talkative. The one who really spill the beans. They got him locked up when they first began. Investigation took quite the risk. What you in john to the police about pee. Wee gaskins tying him to an investigation of a missing girl could prove deadly. And i said well. What was the problem with him is now. He says her joing said she couldn't keep your mouth shut care for detail me several times but the first time was the most poignant he said i should have gone ahead and done when i knew i should do lend bloated up talking about dynamite. And you said if he'd just you dynamite to blow up old ladies now old lady. Snell was sandy. Snell's mother p. We thought she was the primary informant when in fact sandy is one who spilled most of the beans so to speak with a north charleston. Police sandy had good reason to turn on peewee and her tip to the police. That peewee was with the missing girl. Kim calkins may have been more than a simple slip of the tongue. Relationship started out in typical peewee fashion. Doreen dempsey had recently moved out. Because pee wee's work took him away from home too often. That's when he met sandy snell. Her family had worked for the amusements of america. Carnival and is the fair moved on. Sandy stayed behind and soon fell in. Love with peewee. Ten months later they had a son and the trio moved to north charleston. Where p we landed a roofing job. These were good times but it wouldn't be long before peewee was chasing other women. Here's his former employer. From the weekend she used to go to the honky tonks and around with the women. Fight back when i was up there. One time. I may as wife outside and mets mother girls because a lot of times he'd have wife living there sometime he'd have of woman living in the house too so you know we think he was a womanizer. Soon after their relationship started sandy heard a rumor that we had gotten another girl pregnant. That girl may have been martha and dick's known as clyde the sheriff departments investigator hugh math. This reported that sandy began dating another man because peewee quote gone out with a black girl in quote that rumor combined with sandy dating another man proved too much for gaskins according to the domestic abuse report. Sandy filed against him. Peewee took sandy to a spot near the sunrise. Race track on. Us five twenty one south about five miles from sumter. He tied her to a tree and beat her with quote branch limbs bigger than your thumb in quote. The investigator said she appeared to be beaten badly but sandy would later refused to press charges. This abusive volatile relationship would continue one report stated that sandy burned down. Wee's north charleston house because he allowed her sister wanted to stay there and began having an affair. In pewee soap opera world. women often died This is jennifer hawes a reporter at the post and courier newspaper and author of the award winning book. Grace will lead us home here. She talks about the pulitzer prize winning investigation she authored with three other writers. Call till death do us part. We decided to begin till death. Do us part because of a press. Release saying that. South carolina had ranked number one in the country in terms of men killing women on an impact. It had been in the top ten as long as these records. Were kept this why we need to really sit down and explore why this is. And so the editors got a team together to discuss different ways of looking at this one of the things that we found was the strong idea that women should be seen in are heard in the household that women were viewed more as property that women were not empowered within these households and really domestic violence comes down to power and control. there's a common misperception that abusers have anger management problems of the victims that we talked to that was just not the case. There was a common scenario where the woman would say. My husband boyfriend. Whatever was a great guy you know. Everybody thought he was a great guy. If anybody knew us doing inside the house it would never believed me and then within the house. He's manipulating her. She's not good enough. Nobody else would love her. You know you're ugly. You're at the same time restricting her access to friends and family in often income so that she's trapped and that's the idea when i say that it's a power struggle and so when we think of somebody is property that's what we're talking about someone who's completely disempowered in the household and not treated as an equal human that power struggle happened at pee wee gaskins household he controlled and manipulated and even bragged about his property proclaiming. He had quote given sandy to his buddy. Walter neely that's correct the ultimate gifts that pay gave where women give sandy his former wife to water the main gift. The jesse judy given to johnny sellers. So sandy moved in with walter while a new woman jesse. Judy would soon move in with peewee. Within a year jesse would move on to live with johnny sellers. It wouldn't end well James could no. Judy was pee. Wee's friend coworker. A neighbor who had two women who loved him jesse and donna but then leave him as he fell back into his drug addictions. Gaskins would take in both women only this time. He and donna cruella would get married until death did them part. Here's highly gatling. The state newspaper reporter who covered the story from the beginning. We asked her about donna cruella. Who was twenty years younger than gaskins and became his sixth and final wife. I think that when someone is in love the whole mechanism of the emotion of love is to blind yourself to the faults of the person you loved. I can't speak to dhamma at all. But i think just generally speaking many many people will excuse the fox and the activities of the people that they love. Because i love them. I know many people in prison have families on the outside families who loved them. Regardless of what they've done will stand by them will do what they can to help. Rehabilitate the person because does what love is all about. It's love till death. Do us part. They love this man and they see him in terms of the man he clicked. You're the man that he was the man who might return if he could stop drinking or if he could stop doing drugs or he wasn't under so much stress or if she could be a better wife for better mother fill in the blank that she still loved the man that she saw possible in there. And i think a lot of people don't understand that the relationship was born of something that in many cases it was love donna crew low apparently did fall in love with pee wee gaskins at the time we had four women coming and going from his home in backyard. Trailer there were bedrooms for each. Besides sandy donna. There were two other women marine sherry and many children. The women were all much younger than peewee and he covered most expenses for everybody including food shelter and stolen cars for transportation. But it wasn't just money the us to control women one of big misconceptions with domestic violence. Is that women who are victims are low income and that is true in many scenarios. But it's not universally the case and that's what we found. The domestic abuse occurs in every socioeconomic. Strata it's a relationship in which a man is trying to exert tremendous amount of control over women. The idea that it's only low income admit is really off the mark. Why wouldn't the women just leave. Well then in now leaving could literally get the abuse victim killed and the number one reason that women don't lead is fear because they know in their heart of hearts in actually in terms of the statistics about seventy five percent of domestic homicides occur after the relationship ends so either because she's tried to leave refiled charges. They know that that's when they're going to be at the greatest danger Sandy had enough abuse and didn't bother to cover for peewee when telling detectives about the missing girl can gilkissons. Walter couldn't take it anymore and led the police to johnny nights grave. But donna didn't leave in fact. She continued her relationship with pee wee gaskins even after he'd been indicted for killing eight friends and associates even after he was convicted for killing dennis. Bellamy whether she knew it or not she would soon serve a critical role in finding kim calkins. As would walter neely waters. a little slow is all describe onto. Nearly a psychiatrist would later testify. That walter had an iq fifty six and was quote moderately mentally retarded in quote with a personality disorder. That leaves him socially inept and dependent on other persons. It wasn't easy for walter neely. It was hard for him to hold down a job. So it's not surprising. He became skilled at stealing dealings. That life meant. He was running with a rough crowd and also bullied a lot by dennis. Bellamy his ex wife diane bellamy. Even his closest friend pee wee p we gave him sandy g- elkins as a girlfriend but then later killed walkers common law wife diane bellamy in blamed him for the murder in the end. Walter went to prison because he was always with the wrong people at the wrong time and he was the perfect scapegoat. Walter made the mistake of traveling with dennis. Bellamy johnny night to prospect the night pee wee gaskins unexpectedly killed dennis in a dispute over money. A crazy scene. Peewee and dennis leave johnny night and walter alone in the trailer where they are watching. Tv and having fun peewee returns a short while later and invites them out to hang out with him and dennis. Here's walter statement to the police about what happened next johnny. Now we're looking up into a tree. And i heard gunshot right beside me and i turned and johnny fell backwards on the ground. He made no noises and lay. Very still peewee. Shine the light on. Johnny's face. And i could see what looked like a bullet hole in the center of johnny's forehead. It looked like to me where a bullet had come out. I was scared to say anything. And i did not ask me. We any questions. That night would be too much for walter. Thirty five days later he led police to these two graves only to then find himself arrested for being an accomplice to the murder of six of the eight bodies found in the field that cold november day in nineteen seventy five. He would be tried for one murder. Dennis bellamy and while his attorney would allege walter was an unwitting accomplice since p we had threatened to kill him if he said anything the jury only took three and a half hours to decide otherwise as the prosecution claimed slow. Walter neely could pull the trigger of a gun just as well as a smart man. Walter was sentenced to death by electric chair but through the appeals process ended up with consecutive life sentences plus twenty years. He was serving his time at the lieber correction institution a maximum security prison in ridgeville south carolina when he died in nineteen ninety eight. He was fifty. Two years old. We're making lower emission. Vehicles are priority reusable packaging our priority and carbon capture research to offset emissions our priority because earth is our priority at fedex. We knew sustainability. Means a lot to you and we feel the same way. Our goal is to be carbon neutral by twenty forty. We call it priority earth fedex. Were now meets next. I'm host robin roberts. And in covert nineteen immunity in our community a new podcast series from heart radio and the us department of health and human services. We're going to hear from americans on the front lines. Many of whom were uncertain about the vaccine's and the facts that convinced him to roll up their sleeves get vaccinated. We sat down with heather. Simpson a mother. Who used to be part of the anti vaccine community if you are going to talk to vaccine hesitant person or an anti sir. Just keep in mind that they are terrified. They truly believe what they believe. When i got a ton of heat as an anti baxter that just strengthened my op form. And i believed. Oh i hate that means. I'm doing something rate. Listen to kobe. Nineteen immunity our community on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast we can do this. James could no. Judy was entangled in the dead bodies. Investigators founded pee. Wee's burial field in december. Nineteen seventy five about a year earlier. James was one of several associates got employed at a roofing company. He worked there. Over a year with pee wee but had something else in common with gaskins. Jesse judy donna. Cruella james was married to jesse but his drug abuse made life untenable and she left him and moved in with peewee and his wife. Sandy apparently she brought a baby with her. Jesse judy moving in with peewee. And she had a little child and p we could tell showers very verse. Hick and jesse did know that. Were feeding the baby correctly when taking care of the way so pre ordered sandy to take the baby to the doctor and the doctor was very alarmed. The baby was seriously ill but they nurses back to health and all the doctor expenses all the new food and the baby perfectly. Well perfectly happy. It was during this time. The jim says p we really fell in love with jesse. Judy says often he loved her more than anybody else. And i think there were days that he actually thought that if he was capable of really letting anybody peewee was twenty years older than jesse and she apparently yearned for another type of life but after about a year she moved out of pee. Wee's house and in with johnny sellers in love with jesse judy sincerely so sometime later. James dated donna carrillo but drug abuse and financial problems. Got the best of him and she to left him for peewee. Who was still married to sandy. When jesse judy's body was founded pee. Wee's burial field florence county solicitor. Ken some referred was convinced. Her death was james getting rid of his ex wife with pee. Wee's help james conolly. Judy was arrested on december six. Nine thousand nine hundred seventy five at the age of twenty two charged with murdering johnny sellers. Whose body was found with jesse judy. Here's his former employer at the roofing company. He works about an hour from stories. We heard james got tv and got his wife and took them out in the country and had p. we kill him and they buried and that's the story we heard. I think jane did turn states evidence and he didn't get much time in jail. we don't know how factual that is. Not but that's just a story. We heard back then. James's attorney convinced him to take an offered plea which allows an accused to plead guilty while still maintaining innocence to avoid a trial and possible conviction on a more serious charge with that plea. He was sentenced to ten years in prison but was released in three. When the parole board recognized he was not guilty of killing his ex-wife or her boyfriend. Johnny sellers was a native of johnson. Bill south carolina forty five miles south of florence theft. Ring along with his younger brother. Carl johnny and peewee had stolen boat and giving it to a guy named belton. Eighty eighty was the fence. Peewee stolen goods when johnny sellers got busted for breaking into a drugstore. Peewee bailed him out of jail. Johnny was desperate and needed money to pay his lawyers and the legal fine he owed. He planned to pay the fine lawyers and peewee back with the money from belton eighty but eating never paid and johnny became vocal about it john which always ends badly. He threatened about an eighty on the telephone and said look. If i don't get paid soon. I'm going to go straight to the law and i don't have anything to lose by doing this. 'cause i've got the goods on you guys like so many people in this story. Johnny had limited money and few legitimate resources. Crime was a way to get by more than a passion or habit. He wanted a life with jesse and paying off his debt would help get that life going but those who went around jawing about pee. Wee's crimes paid the ultimate price. So peewee eighty concocted a plan to get rid of johnny about an eighty had grown weary of johnny sellers. Threats about an eighty would not pay johnny and carl for what they still given to him. So johnny was upset and was threatening to go to the law with the whole kit and caboodle destroy. The broke the camel's back with johnny sellers is he and peewee sola station wagon with the boat on it from a friend of pee wee's and sold it got a lot of money for it and johnny sellers never paid for that car theft. He wanted immediately two thousand dollars and it never came. Johnny seller simply violated the code flyers and to talk about david set up with st louis. Dealings it will go on with pee. Wee and melton needy. According to recorded a depositions with kim some referred gaskins confessed that it was belton eadie who hit a loaded rifle in the trunk appears car when everyone mad at eddie's house in june nineteen seventy four jesse stay behind johnny and p we went to get stolen guns so johnny could sell them and get back on his feet again but gaskins drove johnny to the woods and shot him in the back. He hid the gun beside a tree and headed back to eighties house. Peewee got jesse. Took her back to the same location and stabbed her with his campbell. Soup knife belt needy would later plead guilty and get a sense of ten years for his participation in johnny's murder as for james kanawha. Judy gaskins would have something to say about that as well in this exchange with solicitor. Ken some effort some effort. All right i wanna go back to kenosha judy. He didn't ask you to kill johnny gaskins. No he didn't know nothing in the world about it. At the time could noy living with donna. The girl i'm married to right now. And he had no reason. The world wasn't jesse killed whatsoever. Peewee never wavered on his story. That james no was innocent of the crime but he would be willing to say whatever. The prosecution wanted him to stating. The boy is innocent. But if you want me to lie in hang him. I'll give you a statement if you wanna hang the man now. Gaskins effort that he killed her twenty five feet from where johnny spotty lay. Here's more from their interaction. Some effort y'all have any conversation before you killed her gaskets. I just told her. I was going to kill her. Some aford you did. What did she say gaskins. Not a word in the world. She didn't cry. I said jesse. I'm going to kill you. And she looked at me like she didn't believe me. I just took it stuck it right through her about here and she wilted right down to the ground and pulled it out some referred to y'all have sexual relations gaskins at that time. No we did not. Do you remember how she was. Dressed gaskins a pair of shorts and a little shirt. Her shorts come off. When i put her in the gray jesse. Judy had a real hard and she really fell in love with johnny sellers. And we're on our way high. Thank too happy. Live with him and kill them. The book jim was writing about peewee called me. It has a shakespearean literary flavor includes a chapter on the tragic love story between jesse and johnny. Here's jim and anita. I think she in a sense emotionally had come into her own. By the time that the relationship jeld between johnny seller. Say what she said that jesse and johnny setting up housekeeping all that. Yeah that's a good thing to say okay. There's a chapter entitled jessen. John is set up housekeeping and that chapter ends with a quote from a poem from john. Donne he says to her you make a little room and everywhere that's how you described a little tiny apartment that they were able to rent and move into for the first time. Jim sites english poet. John duns work called a celebration of the pleasures of true love. It begins by asking what two true lovers could possibly have been doing before they met any other. Prior lovers were but a dream of the one. True love done compares life before this love to a child suckling. At it's mother's breast. True love makes quote one little room. Everywhere in quote gyms image of jesse. Judy and johnny sellers finding their first small apartment. Together is painted with seventeenth century poetics. And it's not surprising that jim's occupation as a literature professor in flexes worldview more specifically. It's not surprising that a metaphysical poet like john done is his reference and this one line of poetry does more for jim and anita then framed the second hand image of ill fated lovers jesse in johnny s. They set up a little home together. The line reads and makes one little room and everywhere lanao tell you. Please tell what i want to. Because he ninety two of us. Oh yes it was anita and me yes over over that. No the jaguar f. type doesn't just go from point eight point be it takes you places you will ever experience. Climb into the driver-focused cockpit start the engine with a simple push of a button and suddenly it's just you and five hundred seventy five horsepower. Eight gear shifting the agile suspension hugging the road. The rest of the world just melting away till everything else becomes a blur and while the engine is symphony in itself. Feel free to lose yourself in your own soundtrack. With available eight hundred twenty. Five watt meridian surround sound system the jaguar f. type and exhilarating combination of design and performance makes it like no other sports car on the world. Learn more at jaguar. Usa dot com. I'm host robin roberts. And in covid nineteen immunity in our community. A new podcast series from iheartradio and the us department of health and human services. We're going to hear from americans on the front lines. Many of whom were uncertain about the back scenes and the facts that convinced him to roll up their sleeves get vaccinated. We talked to dr rochelle wolinsky director of the centers for disease control and prevention to meet people where they are. We need to convey the science. We need to communicate it. We need to bring it to the people at the level that they want to hear it. This this is going to happen. One person at a time. We need to make sure that people get the answers to their specific questions and they get the answers to those questions in the context of where they have trusted messengers. Listen to covid nineteen immunity in our community on the iheartradio app apple podcasts forever. You get your podcast. We can do this in his dozens of interviews with peewee. Jim heard aspects of pee. Wee's life that others hadn't details. They missed in their quick identification of the mass murderer. But these sorts of details of jesse and johnny being in real love were of jesse. Being pee wee's true love. They came out of gyms literary background informed by years of reading and teaching. These familiar names. Chaucer milton done. Shakespeare blake in keats. religion metaphysics romantics. This is where jim specialized and he approached peewee from the first meeting to the last with this mindset but jim saw peewee through a literary lens. How did he see jim. And what made p we choose jim to write his story like robert louis stevenson. Strange case of dr. Jekyll and mr hyde p. We had an alter ego which he seemed to control it will and his characters were perceived differently by those around him depending on which persona peewee put on display for a writer these characters stories and legends were literary gold and jim could not stop filling pages with these comical and sordid tales. Here's another perspective from pee. Wee's employer as he talks about the character he saw at work. Actually everybody like he was very likable. Fellow despite what he did he's very likable. Short and statue have heavy steph. He was quite a character he would tell tale and like the top stories and everybody knew that half where they talked about was ave just made out he speaks here of pee wee as anyone would about a good employee was a hard worker and nobody every complained about any. He was strong. You might have been small statue. But he was a strong man I put it this way. He had a bet with some fellas at work monday. He could take tire and laid on the ground and take a sledgehammer and crowbar and get the tire off the rim and put it back on and pump it up With the regular bicycle pump so we watched one day and he actually did that. Can you imagine how hard that would be. He wanted to bet. I think they bet like two dollars. I just did it. 'cause he he could do it. I call him a shade tree mechanic. Shade tree mechanic p. We worked on a lot of cars under oak trees on the property and prospect cars. He and others had stolen cars. He was flipping for someone else cars. He was going to give people. This was greasy hard work and the boss appreciated that but looking back he had no idea what was really up to. None of us had any clue about what he was doing for lack of better term. What he was doing on the weekends on the weekends indeed. If a boss peewee one way how did the reporters perceive him. Here's c. so chandler. Who covered pee wee gaskins in nineteen seventy five for tv thirteen in florence south carolina. When i first started in television this was the biggest story that i'd ever come up on. I was working with. cbs news. And i got a chance to interview theory when he was on trial and i asked him several things about what he did coming up and quit turned him into the life of murdering people and he said well it was just by way of life he said i travel with the carnival for a while. I just kind of picked all of this up. And i didn't understand what he was talking about but i reckon from his way of life growing up you know with very little or nothing and then traveling all around carney guys. It just picked him up to you know something was wrong. He didn't like somebody that he would beat them up or kill. You come a lot of weird stuff but you know how much of it can you believe you know. I've always heard the old saying you can't judge a book by its cover. Well if you looked at pee wee gaskins. You think he'd killed more than dozen people. Just look like a normal guy but You never know. And i'll tell you so. Beware of people that you think are ordinary. But they may not be margaret o'shea hours of direct contact with peewee and conducted her own research about his crimes like ceaseless chandler. She has a reporters disposition that worked to understand his motives. He worked goner cabaco farm at one time and he and an accomplice were involved in helping to sell tobacco but they came up on a scheme. That worked better than selling tobacco. They would clear the barn of tobacco and get it hauled off in the night to still elsewhere and then they would set the barn on. Fire the farmer who usually was not involved in arson itself or even the theft would collect insurance and so he got paid for his crop but we and his accomplice also got paid because they had stolen it. And so so it's like everything. He touched my have a legitimate element. But there was always something running undercurrent. That was an illegal waiter sweetened the pot make it there. Jim beattie spin his years reflecting on the peewee saga with a literary perspective. He had read. The words studied. The rhythm heard the rhyme and tap the meter to john done and other writers who created human dramas with words like dunn's. Jim's perspective is typically dramatic rather than descriptive and he was tasked to put the peewee drama into his own words. The responsibility that i felt was to record actually the life of this mass murderer and his out of got into the interviews and learning him and about him and trying to determine what made him tick so to speak. I realize it was impacting. Me tremendously and my life and outlook and perspective. Which changing because of this experience and i was having with this mass murder so i moved from a novice rider into an investigator a student of this personality and this man and i and i say often one of the tragedies of pee wee's life or he's execution certainly was he was not studied He was not taken for months and months and months. And strutted i felt that as human beings their responsibility to study this person to study why he did what he did his background. What could have prevented what we could have done. So that would never ever happen again. Those are the things that mccain my own in trying to write this book Jim's perspective is distinctive and whatever subject we talked about love death. God human frailty murder. Jim presents it in the context of some metaphysical problem concerning the human condition. he also witnessed contradictions in pee. Wee's behavior events of kindness. Dish absolutely shocked me. The fact that he would risk going back to jail to steal a transmission at night in a street in florence south carolina to put into the car of an elderly woman who hadn't driven their car for sixty elderly lady went to toiling. That's transmission was slipping and car or not feed six it and he looked at it and say well he couldn't fix the transmission and the story goes he drove around town to. He sound a car just like hers. Then he went back in the middle of the night. All duck by nissan car dropped that transmission out of that car on side of the road. Took it back and installed it in her car and then when she came to get it he said he had fixed it and he accepted the fifteen dollars that she said off saw the money. She had to fix our transmission. Get paid a whole lot working on cars. 'cause most people's cars worked on was You know like four people they want wealthy people and and i say you love the fact that he's as far as i knew image still running. It made me marvel at the inconsistency of this character. The same hands the same mind percent man. These two different behaviors. I wanted to steady him. Learn to out how this could be Such a paradox contradiction or the dichotomy was this man. Every time i visited him. I saw that one of my main interests and continuing to write the life of a was. I was always looking for something positive What i found those acts of kindness in the midst of the life of this mass murderer was outstanding. And i was hoping that as we moved along hope against hope that somehow it would be signs of out i to be theological or religious but some sign of repentance. I'm sorry i did this. I must admit. I was hoping to have a book that had just a ray of hope of the human spirit and the human character so i was looking on this life level of something. That would be a positive that i could write about and that was what i was hoping would be the conclusion of my life of pewee gaskins. Jim has articulated his literary process. He says quote. I was looking on this. Life's level for something. That would be a positive that i could write about from the beginning. He was looking for the good the positive he would looking for that pre existing inner nature in a horrid man for jim goodness is the assumed mode of being in the world. It's the force that i led him to divinity school and its theological questions the writers poets and playwrights he taught at university filled volumes of stories on that same. Search with peewee. Jim was asking questions about a man who grew up in the same general area as he did that. Man killed more than a dozen people and those questions often had responses that tells about jim's character in his own story many of those stories. Jim taught come fashioned with positive. Moral up lifting good prevails. Sorta narratives. Jim is genuinely moved. By the poetics of the relationship. Between art literature and life literature exposes life and lays bare the human condition. The last stands of that done poem. The good morrow reverberates even further in revealing. Jim beattie the author and his character. The lovers of the poem are in their own worlds. there is constantly reflecting in each other's if our two loves be one none can die. Heroically love conquers death. Nothing is so romantic. Love truth death. These are the subjects of authors through the ages. In words love never dies. Death cannot contain us myth sized topics and is hopeful as can be the. Where was the love. Hope or truth in pewee story at occasion wants to ask peewee. I said he. Would you ever lie to me thanking. You know we'll but we're all france he's not going to made and he thought for a second and said yes. I would say pretty. You would lie to me when he said without hesitating have the time i learned that it was a skill liar. Because if you eli half the time you know way live Gaskins was not. My friend is a joint production from iheartradio and doghouse mixers produced and hosted by jeff keeping executive producers courtney to freeze and noah brown written by jim roberts coordinator freeze and terry james edit knicks and sound design by jeremiah kalani prescott music composed by damaged productions spencer guard in newberry special thanks to jim and anita beatty additional thanks to the university of south carolina moving image research collections and the university of south carolina. Face mob it's really deep. Paid a csm new information about i. New podcast ghetto. Boys reloaded make. Sure that you tune in our debut on monday july fifth we go to bring you episodes featuring some of the most iconic figures in here pop and miss it. Listen to the ghetto. Boys reloaded podcast. Starting monday july fifth on the black effect podcast network our heart radio app apple podcasts. Whatever you get your podcast hi guys. I'm running baiter. And i'm calling her would and we're here to tell you about our new podcast. Talk show with grammy and connor. So each week we're bringing on some of the hottest tiktok creators celebrities to join us as we explore all the latest things happening on tiktok so whether you love tiktok and have been using the app forever or if you're new to the app in the world of tiktok still figuring it all out come hang out with us on a new podcast talk. Show with remain goner. Talk show with remain. Connor premieres june twenty-ninth. Listen on the iheartradio app on apple. Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

johnny sellers Wee jesse johnny sandy gaskins donna cruella jesse judy pee wee gaskins walter neely Sandy Judy walter wee gaskins kim calkins dennis north charleston donna Snell Walter neely
Rocket IT Business Podcast | Brandon Hutchins | Leading Change Through Influence | Ep. 22

Rocket IT Podcast

1:17:22 hr | 8 months ago

Rocket IT Business Podcast | Brandon Hutchins | Leading Change Through Influence | Ep. 22

"Today's podcast is brought to you by rocket. It experiencing malware data loss or a recurring technical glitch. Your technology should be seamless to your team visit rocket. It dot com fourth flash roadmap help or click the link in the video description to see how you can benefit from one of our personalized roadmaps. Hello everyone. I'm your host matt hiatt and this is shown number twenty two of the rocket. It business podcast today. We're talking with my friend and fellow entrepreneur brandon hutchins. If we die then let me tell you a few things. I like about brandon. First and foremost brandon has a big heart for people around him. And i think that shows everything does. He's an employee. Turn business owner ami's than amazing stewart of the organizations. He leads and yes. That's right organizations. Plural as one business aren't enough to keep them busy random as involved in multiple businesses at the same time brandon is also very hands on coach for the leadership team at work. He leaves men's group through a church and actively supports mentors other entrepreneurs all while raising a family with his wife nancy brandon. Welcome to the show screaming here. Thanks and i'm so glad to us down with you We had a little chat before him. Catching up a little bit. But i always enjoy spending time with you. Randy live on the other side of town so we don't get to see each other in person too often but laugher technology zoom. Let us get together and hang out way on the other side of the world in marietta. Georgia. that's right well you know. It's probably not very many miles but as we all know traffic around here even grant making so itself but it's still. It's still not still good job. So i wanna kinda start off in the way back machine here a little bit. I know you graduated from georgia tech. Which means you're super sharp. I know that and engineering background right out of school. You landed a job with a little tiny company called cranston young. Love to kind of hear a little bit about that. How did that happen. Was that your your aim and was it what you expected when when you got in there yeah i saw through that period. Tom alive and have a senior in high at one in college. In one is a senior in high school in two younger. But we've been talking about college and we've been talking a career in all that kind of stuff and to be honest man. I know i really didn't know what i wanted to do. I I liked math alike. The technical side of things. And i was thinking about sports to a certain degree in any anyway i ended up going attack in without that vision for what i wanted to do with my life and i've kind of looked around. I was very driven. The joke that i have is i kind of looked around said. We'll the coke buildings one of the biggest buildings as you would like to be the ceo of goat one day. So there's still chance the end. There's still chance but you know i. I didn't know what i wanted to do. And i really felt like a great avenue for me. it's like i'm going to be exposed to businesses. Hopefully i can add some value to to them along the way and you know it was a really good fit for me is great because there were just a ton of sharp people. I love the way. They structured their business and got to travel a lot. Which at the time was kinda cool notified. Love that today but back then annals nice and just made a ton of friends. And i think one of the things that i really enjoyed amazon. They did a good job of showing you how to do. Well they define success for you in esso's like hey if you wanna win here year. The bullets you know in my personalities like. Give me a checklist or bullet. And i'm like. Yeah that. So if i want to do well. That's what i have to do. So either you know get good ratings or get promoted to the next level and i appreciated that and they did that while the culture piece of the equation so i think thousand first time of my eyes were open to what a good culture look like and i really enjoyed just being with people and meeting tons of france. That really act kept in touch with i even song to this day. So how's it going up the in there. I was only there for two and a half years and it probably felt like ten we as fun as it was we. We work a lot. It was You know that's kind of you know somewhat of tradition as the younger folks in the organization. We we worked a lot. And but i joined it you know. I think when you're doing something that you're enjoying you. The time seems to fly right and so we yeah up how the hours in that period of time so you mentioned something that i think. A lot of young people face is before we know it where legally an adult before we know it. You know twenty twenty two years twenty five years old and not. Everyone sort of figured out what they wanna do yet. I think college can be a great place to figure that out. But i am curious. Your degree at georgia tech. Did that kind of line up with what you're doing ernst young so as an it. It's kind of is definitely not open ended. But i think what i ended up doing. Consulting was not traditional industrial engineering work. I think traditional industrial engineering work would be more like a maybe being production manager or assembly line manager at a distribution center. You know maybe than maybe even air traffic control you know things that deal with scheduling in time and ascendancy in process. That's really a lot of what i do. But i think that's one of the reasons why ersan yang and really at the time the big six consulting firms really liked is because it was kind of a people dynamic a process in those were found the big buzz words at the time people process and technology. And so you know at tech you have the technology in the process and you know i think they were looking for people that can relate with other people too so right seemed to be a good fit. Yeah so what was the. What was the transition from there to gaskets. Am i missing. Anything in the middle or was it. Hey i'm leaving arts neon i'm going to work for for gaskins. It was tough. It was to. I'll probably here. Here's a little small business joined right. Yeah gives you from this. Rigid structured environment to something less than that so quitting back story. Because i felt like it's it's important. So gaskins gaskins was founded by my stepdad. Johnny gaskins and so. When i was growing up johnny it was very important for him for me to work even though played a bunch of sports and was really involved in school and church us. Like when you're not playing you're going to work. And so every summer and winter i was working on a film crew at gaskins and so to be honest i hated it. I just You know the especially in the summertime with the the bees and the sweat and you know. I just i. I knew early on that. It would be better for me. Use my brain than braun in my work. And i have tons of respect for folks that do you know have a trade and and really with their hands. You know i just. That's just not going to be my best for sure so anyway. I just in my mind. When i thought of career for me i felt like yes ins was the least place in the whole world that i wanted to go work and really the only reason that cruel twist of fate the yeah you know i guess is part of my life and maybe this is just part of my story. My faith has been the most important thing to me and in. It's really the reason why i came to gaskins. I really felt like but as my wife nancy. We both just felt lead that i needed to talk to johnny about potentially gaskins and i did not want to do it but i felt like. That's what i was supposed to do. And i'll save some of the details of kind of what actually happened. But johnny actually was offered to sell the business in ninety nine and ultimately he decided not to any wanted to grow the business end. So us like. Why don't you come on board and help us grow this help. Us grow the business and he was a funny guy. He's like us a very shoot from the hip type of person and highly relational and man. You know i'm very structured You know linear thinker type of person. So we're pretty opposite. Is his offer to me. Started with you know rain. I don't even know what you do really at arsenion. But i just want you to come over here and just do to gas in what you do all these outings and You know as someone who needs clear expectation in new direction. That was the direction that i got a list i said. Can you define my job a little more than that. And he uses like no you'll figure it out and so As someone who whenever. I do not have structure around me. I'm usually one to try to immediately create structure. So i would. I would always bring my job responsibilities to johnny and say hey. This is okay if i do this. He's like homecare. yes s. So you're pretty humble guy but what was this Rescue situation of hey ranan amend turn things around or was it really just what i've got a plan now in its to you know to the moon baby and i want you to come help me. it wasn't it wasn't a rescue because johnny was doing just fine In the business was a nice business that had forty forty to fifty people. At that time he started in seventy five so that was about twenty. Five year is twenty five year old business and they were doing fine but there are things that i had exposed to. When i was working there through time that i knew needed to change that he wanted to change. I think he just wanted it to be better. And he wanted to grow the business at the time really focused on him like every all roads back johnny and that he was Unhealthy place personally inside. Think he needed he needed. Help taking the business to the next level or or as we used to say going from an entrepreneurial type of business to a professional organization. And that's what we did. We did a lot of that working together but but back to your last question. Man was like oil and water. I mean it was really hard because the environments were just completely different right for sure right. Well i know allow businesses dare i say most businesses do hit certain plateaus and certainly for a small organization. One of the plateaus is okay. Everything's tied to the entrepreneur. And how do you disconnect from that and how to develop a leadership team that has not just responsibility but authority to make decisions and things like that. Of course our processes. I can't imagine that. Probably more stark difference between an organization like ernst and young and pretty much any small business right now in terms of structure. There's just going to be night and day. I would think so i'm curious. What was your approach and what happened. What were we talking about here. are we talking about. Hey you come on in nineteen ninety nine and two years later. everything's humming. Is that how it kind of worked or was there more more to well. We went by the way when you joined was the plan. I'm gonna own this business someday. No mock land will. That might have been harder. Janis plan but that was not part of my plan. You know. I really thought. I'm going to get in and get out i'm gonna i'm gonna get in and i'm gonna change a bunch of stuff and i'm gonna get back to the the dream that i had you know and here. I am twenty one later after that you know but it really hurt me. The way i approached what i did. The results were good. We experienced a lot of growth. We went from like three point. Four five million four point eight eight million. The first year we went. Wow that's pretty impressive. Went from actually we are remember. We had fifty six invoice to like forty seven so we went down and employees and up in revenue usually. Yeah johnny was very happy that get you. You was happy. But i tell you i. I think i pressed buttons input. Levers in the right ways for the businesses what the business needed but it was personally very difficult for me as i wasn't i i don't at that time in my career i would just say i didn't see all well newest more like moving chess pieces on the board implementing strategy and really forcing my agenda more than really doing things with care. And you know. I kinda viewed my job as johnny's litzman ruinous like all the things that he secretly wanted to do. Basically i'm gonna go do on immediately and i don't even care what the repercussions are is. They need to happen and as you can imagine. I wasn't the most popular person in the right in. And if. I would've known that i would be here. Twenty one years later. I probably would have gone about things a little bit differently but i think i would do things differently anyway and knowing what i know now and really the change that has occurred in my life as lira right. Yeah i mean just saying you know the word lynch pun and not taking people into account so much is sort of the polar opposite of the brandon hutchins. I know so I'm sure we'll get into a little bit of how how that version of us development and got in there. So i know from talking with you in the past and from my show notes here that You spent about six years as employees and what happened during that time. Sort of change your mindset. You know what i really wanna. Onus want to run it and i want to own it. How did that occur. Will the running. It was a different path in only it. Pass for sure really. Yeah the running. In part i think over time as i began to change is a leader are really began to see. I mean honestly as as i began to change personally as it relates to people. And the way i saw people away i wanted to care for people. It was interesting. How i began to enjoy my job a whole lot. More and develop relationships friendships clients employees and eighteen of it really turned from the thing that at least wanted to do my whole life to something that was so i was so grateful for and i have just a tremendous amount of gratitude for the opportunities that i've had along the way i guess when i became. Ceo like thirty one or thirty two. It was at that point yet. Johnny was air and he just a i feel i feel so bad about the way i just learned so many things about being the number one versus being the number two in probably the number two. I think you just have pensively to look at number one and think of all the things that they should be doing better or why they're not perfect and why the attributes that you have are better than the attributes that number one has you know you begin to inflate your own virtue and deflate the virtue of the person above you. I actually think you can do that. Not just one two but anytime you look at a supervisor in you feel like you should be Promoted you know. I just felt like johnny was so gracious with me. He was so hacia in gracious. I was so driven. And i wanted more and he just gave me enough wrote to do what i needed to do. But also enough accountability to keep me in check. And i think he just new stat when he began to see me start really loving. The old i think was when he really started to consider. Hey i think raining namely disorganization and as time and the real. I know this is something that you wanna talk about at some point but there was a there was a person. Jeremy kubitschek was real influence in our transition of the business. And so jeremy's a guest on our podcast before many of our listeners are familiar with giant. So good yeah. Yeah so jeremy. I met jeremy in two thousand three at a at a conference and we hit it off immediately and we circle back about a year later. Then we started working together. He started working with me. And with johnny and our leadership team and helped really johnny to begin to transition the business and there was really one day we were in the conference room and jeremy did this exercise and he said i want shaw east to take fifteen minutes and right now of isa paper. What do you actually want to do. And what do you think you're good at and we both wrote down. The pieces of paper slid it over to jeremy. And he's like. I'm just going to read these out loud. He's like johnny. You don't even want to be the ceo and you don't even think you think brandon would be you know like all these things while why don't we just let brandon be the ceo. And wow and that was germany's idea. Well yeah is like johnny's idea but he he's the one that run it out of me while on. The two pieces of paper is so clear that johnny wanted to be more of a founder tight role and more of mentor type role on the technical stuff news. Like run the business and brandon. This is what he wants to do. And he's good at it. You know and it was like this epiphany and literally. I think maybe the day was february late february. Two thousand six he. We had a town hall. Meeting marks the third new site You're going to be the ceo. We're gonna announce it today outside. What like that and actually is very emotional. I keep this bahama despot johnny. Ah he had this hammer that is that is that gave him and he said i don't have this Anything to special. But i just want you to see this as a symbol of me passing the gavel to you ice and so i keep your mohammadi's it's the owners held up pretty well. Yeah there's a lot of act story. I won't worry with a of backstory from two thousand six to ten. But essentially he was diagnosed with ls in two thousand seven the recession we started to be. We started to feel the effects of the recession in late. Two thousand seven and jolly as you want your more. I'll tell you more. But through that period of time it was it was pretty dicey and as we talked about ownership as he was getting more sick. It was something else very interested them. But i wasn't. You know. I wasn't really sure about our futures company your future in my role. What was i going to do with the rest of my life. And so i was. I was really hesitant about going the ownership route. But while especially i would imagine. You know in in the really. I guess we call this the construction industry once you started to see it. I don't think there are a lot of people diving and say you know on a piece of this action. it was. It was scary. And actually jeremy once again wasn't influence or in in that decision. And you know i was. It was two thousand ten. We were talking Also will maybe maybe giant wings about that later but is there gonna be a lot of covey for gaskins right and jeremy. He said to me you know he's like you're to committed your you. You will not leave. You will not leave this thing in a lurch. I know you too well. He said if you know. Stop thinking that you might just do something different as you. Won't you're going to see this thing through so you might as well you might as well buy it own. It you know for your efforts if if it does work out. And and so that was really the bush that i needed and i ended up buying half which could have never afforded you know years before but we we. We were hurt very badly and recession. Tom right so you ended up buying the business in two thousand ten by the time. You've been in their ten lebanese something that what a what a cool story i you know i think that There are lots of lots of folks out there. That sort of dream of being an entrepreneur sunday and struggle to figure out how to how to make it happen and you know there are extenuating circumstances. Here there are fortuitous. Circumstances here in johnny owning the business. And you know being your stepdad. And but you made it happen and he may have been amid stay crisis really in the industry in a seems like it's working out okay Seems like it's gonna work out fine. We'll multiple people you know when as in the last five years like of course you would have online. I tell you it was probably the earliest move ever made in my life. And you're not a faker are yet. You know that. I'm i'm i'm pretty safe zone. It was definitely the most money out ever going into debt. It was it was in. Hindsight is like its greatest decision. You know from a business standpoint. That i made at the time it was it was tough. Yeah tell me what is gaskins. Look like today. What sort of the primary focus. And how big is it. Where where do you do work. Tell us a little bit about that. And then i thought we're going to move on from there. Gaskins is serving engineering company. In marietta georgia. We do have four offices. We serve most of georgia and some of surrounding states. And so when. I say civil engineering really. I'm talking about like civil site worked so we might design residential neighborhoods or ommercial retail. That kind of stuff. We do a lot of different surveying core outlive private municipal industries. We so i'll just give you the stats so we had gotten down to eighteen employees. I'm were probably about one. And a half million in revenue in the recession at that point of our top twenty customers that we had at the time. Eighteen of those twenty either went out of business or stop doing work all together. That is amazing and so what our industry looked like before the recession looked completely different. Growing out of the recession. And so you know now we have about one. Hundred people or offices were in lawrenceville. We're in newnan and we're in canton and two of those happen through. Acquisition in one was more of an organic gross situation. That s awesome. So we may we may come back and touch on that topic just a little bit. Because there's know there that we could do a whole podcast on just how how to grow an organization. How a scale And how to do it well and there's lots of lots to unpack in their potentially of for example how do you. How do you develop a leadership team to do that. Well how do you have. Geographically dispersed team. That's not you know you've got four times the overhead that i do have my one location of here. So how do you. How do you do that either. There's a lot that we get into their. But but there's a lot of other things i want to cover to light kind of go back to the giant part because that's how you and i met right. We're active and and helping with what germany was doing giant. So tell us a little bit about that at some point you transition from being a customer of giant to really roll up your sleeves and becoming part of giant. Tell us about how that happened. Well i was. I'll just say that. I was so impacted by jeremy in my time in those early years that as jain impact came about elsa part of buying into that and kind of the whole leadership company that was created there and on nothing my exposure to the content with jeremy in the content through giant impact and then ultimately when he came together with steve cochran It was kinda embedded in me in had created so much change in the way i thought about things and my life and my purpose like wildwood. I gotta give. I've got to give away what's been given to me and so i it. It really wasn't even a question of would i be involved in giant worldwide is like how much can i that reasonably make sense. And so you in those early days when giant worldwide was formed driving too. I think jacksonville We are gambill yet yet. Nahra meyer spring training in writing which was awesome. I mean i loved the just like more tools in the tool belt on growing myself and also people around the business in to help others of that was. That was a fun fun. Little journey new us so giant worldwide and. I kinda came together through that and one of the cool things about giant worldwide. Is they've done a great job. I think of patriots taking leadership principles and concepts and turning them into a vocabulary and really simple illustrations or tools so that they're memorable and easy to deploy us in an organization. There you go exactly. There's the tour right there. I know that. I have. I have some of my favorite tools out of out of that. Toolkit i'm curious. What's what are some of your favorites. What are the ones that are go to for you while some of the probably some of the more foundational ones are the ones that i use all the time in. It's hard to just name them in that. Describe them but there's one about knowing yourself delete yourself. There's men that i liked that so applicable. There's one called the influence model. Where i it was really a part of jeremy and ask tom together in early two thousands when he developed it knocked on it was tweaking it and living at an implementing it in so naturally that that tool probably made me cry i think about how the all the all the impact that it's had in my life and in others but we i use that in in hiring recruiting and hiring really. Oh yeah bill. A quick overview of a what the influence model is yes. You're so essentially. The influence model is a tool that used to help. Almost give a linear path on how to have influence with another person out of build influence with another person outta go beyond tran transactional relationship to basically a meaningful in-depth relationship with somebody else. Or if you there is a relationship in your life and you don't have the level of influence that you think you should have or would like to have it's a. It's kind a diagnosis tool that. I you know i'm like why do i not have relationship Help you with that so before concepts that use. The most for hiring and recruiting are building trust. Basically you've got a check for boxes aired chemistry competence and credibility. So when my team we're living at folks we're we're trying to check those boxes and we use that. Language to communicate with each other hand is really smart candidate. They we know that they know their stuff but but they can't really translate it in a way that connects to what we need in our business which is a credibility issue right or and they're really smart but there was just no connection whatsoever. It seemed like they you know they only cared about winning or it was all about money to them in. So that's more of a chemistry character issue so we use that pretty frequently in our language. Yeah those are great concepts to be thinking about. Because i i know i know from experience and i bet you do when you decide that you need to hire another person and add them to the team usually. It's why i need them now. We try to plan for those things. And we'll probably get better at it over time but oftentimes when you're trying to grow a business that person three weeks ago or i've opened a position and it takes three months to fill it by the time that it actually gets filled while we're really kind of hurting for this position so often. There's a lot of pressure to pick the first human that walks through the door. That knows the stuff in a nose. Hard to say no. It's hard to say. No when you know you have a need right. Uh-huh yeah exactly so. I like the idea of intentionally going through this. Those four. check boxes as you call them just to make sure that it's right because we all know that well i think we do. May maybe we don't all know. But but you and i know that as painful as it is to be without someone in a position. It's way worse to go ahead and get the wrong person in the position and then just the oath that absolutely takes a lot. So i like the intention so i want to talk a little bit about that acquisition piece. That you're discussing this is this is something that I certainly have mastered. I think some of our listeners probably be interested to hear how does how does that work. How i how do you find an acquisition target. How do you decide whether or not it's a it's a good move for your business and the other person and is your approach. Typically to bring the entrepreneur along with attic acquisition. Are you really looking for an asset type purchase. Can you tell us how you how you go about that. Well i wish there was like a one path in a clear path for each of the acquisitions of done. And i've done more than just the new locations the consistent thing in all the acquisitions have been about just trying to find. Great people Okay and so it's more about the talent rally necessarily the customer base right which in my business you know. We're a service base business. And so you really only as good as your people. Because our people are they're the ones doing all the interfacing with clients and producing the product and with the counties and municipalities. And so there you know so anyway i. It is been a good mechanism to two two. Draw great tyler. And sometimes it's very intentional to try to go into a another location as we've strategically said. Hey we want to be at lawrenceville but but the lawrenceville was probably more of a. It was more organic growth situation. So i have been intentional to look for opportunities. The best connections have always been through just word of mouth and people just making connections and and then after that it just starts which is getting to know evil for me. This is my way. Is the chemists. The chemistry lease is when it comes to an acquisition character. Chemistry leads by eons. United's like it is a big deal for a person who owns a business to give up ownership of their business And understand that is a big deal big deal to have it in to carry the weight of responsibility. So i know when i'm talking to somebody who who has been carrying. That weight tried to sit in their shoes. Say is my situation better than their current situation. And how can make it better. The perfect fit in so this is part of knowing myself is. I really loved business. I enjoy the business art. You know the the complexities the you know the just the internal guts of a business and a lot of people in my industry small firms. They're kind of a maybe for neural instead. Don't really love the business. Are they just kind of axel. They accidentally got into that or unite right. They were just great at what they did. Good in the profession but they talented a wall and can't get to the next level in so for me i've kind of identified so more generally say identify who were you and what do you want in from an acquisition standpoint. Who is the best candidate for you to merge with in for me it's merging with that entrepreneurial type person that needs help with her business right and i won't people who were just great with serving others and doing a great job with their trade whether it be engineering serving you i kind of feel like this leans back a little bit on the influence model deal because my experience has been that few entrepreneurs are willing to offer up. Hey you know what. I really over my head here struggling to help. Can you help me in. Not many not. Many people are willing to do that. Really says a all piece of self preservation right right influence model is will people be willing to admit that they're holding onto things. That really are outside of their strengths. All and do they want to change you know. Do they want to be healthier happier in their business situation. While i think you must be quite good at it for four is a pretty good pretty good number. You're shaking your head. I mean i'd say mostly operate about it and you know i can't tell you this is probably important now. I've had so many conversations so many for every acquisition transaction that happens. You know it's maybe five to ten to one you know it just. It's the first conversation is easy. Second conversation is easy. And then you start again to the details right and then you know and then that's where the self preservation or kicks in with a lot of folks and and a lot of times money in real estate you know those. Those are just typical roadblocks and ultimately at the end of the day. The person has to be willing to let go right control. Lisa's the number one piece at the end of the day and it may make sense in every logical way but they say no. I just can't do it. Yeah i just can't so i'm gonna get a little bit personal here. Have they all gone swimmingly. Well or have there been any missteps. Well i mean every every time you merge cultures even if you think you're aligned there's always going to be there's always gonna be tension in change is it's really a change management exercise. It's like there's the excitement from your organization of rain somebody else on. And then there's the the acquire eats like is going to change for me. 'cause in our experience been smaller organizations blending into bigger organization. And you know i think. I think they've all gone pretty well. Because i think they've all been focused on the person you know it's like i don't want to get rid of you. I have no desire for you to be gone once you not only do. I not want that. I want to the heart of our family. I wanna be. I want you to be part of our dna. And i do think that there's a real strong sense of belonging for each of the ones that we've done you know i'd love to do more. They're hard to do though because they're always things that i just didn't think about mr or ten gum at gutted. Think about their server capacity versus our server capacity and we're going to renovate the building but i didn't think about the three months it's gonna take. What are we going to do in the meantime before you know. Just the the weeds of getting into the weeds. There's always stuff you know. But i feel like that's part of that's part of business. Right is to solving problems solving problems every day. While on that topic. I would imagine that some of the biggest challenges when you're doing an acquisition of another firm is you're after them in part because you want access to the talent You probably want to retain the customers to and so how do you transition. Well make that a good experience and sort of a good news bat for the employees and customers of those acquisition targets. The biggest thing to me is like really paying attention to the the owner. That's coming in is. They're happy they're going to have a message. They're communicating to their clients best. They're happy they're going to be like. Hey this is better and let me take that. I feel like that's part of like the dating process Identifying are we actually better together. Do we have a story to tell in. And if you can check those boxes that when you actually do come together like well. Here's a story like all you gotta do is tell the story because it really is better right. It's not you know we haven't done acquisitions where we're where it's hey tons of money in the owner runs off in a different structure and so there needs to be a great story on why we're better together so that we can tell that story and it's a true story you know you're speaking from your heart and people can see authenticity rank right so tell me a little bit about how you view your role in the organization today. here Obviously you're wearing the ceo hat you're leading the organization but you've gotta dispersed workforce at this point. I gotta think there are some folks on your extended team that don't get to see a lot of face time with brandon hutchins. What's what's your approach. I also here. And i think probably our listeners. Here that there's a strong faith element here too in a kind of like to hear how you how you interweave those two facets of your life well terms of our role i can tell you know i'm gonna phase right now we're need help you need. I need operational health right in the business. I think at think these last two the growth areas for us lawrenceville in noonan. I think i under i underestimated just the geography and how it was harder for me to have a presence you know so it was kind of pulling at me more in the reason pulling at me is because i want to be with people i want to be with the people wanted i want to. I want them to know that they are known that they're not a number that you and i have talked about this before. This idea of pastor at work is like i literally. I wanna know them. I wanna know how can you. How can i support and challenge you in a way to help you to get to where you wanna be like that. That is what i want for. Every person and man is really challenging right now to to just do that in be that in amidst in the pandemic yet just like being with the ole miss heart. I love it. That zoom is more acceptable. Good thing right. Yeah and so you know. That's something that i probably should be. More intentional with is setting up more of face face to face meetings through zoom than doing. But but yeah so my role. I i currently just feel like. I'm so i'm head down in dealing with a lot of the problem solving just grown business pieces. And i don't feel like i'm i'm my heart. Wants to be more people focused and even external focused. And so i guess i i know that one in the two to be more in that zone that i am today and i'm working on. I'm trying to grow that part of the business of the akin my role a little bit inactive acidy. It was the second question you asked. Well actually let's. Let's kinda zero on that Pastor at work concept because the faith faith integration. That's right. So i would like to know hundred something employees while i i actually don't know but i i have not noticed on your website. We're a faith based organization gaskins. And so i would imagine that with hundred something employees not everyone when they apply for a job at gaskins is saying. Hey really hope my. Ceo is sort of a pastor minded person. That's going to invest in me. Personally how do you tell me about how that works at a gaskins and sort of what your approaches and and what do you hope to achieve with with that approach right. Well i wouldn't. I wouldn't say that we are overtly. I don't like i'm that's not something that i really hear about hosting on the website. I just wanna live that. I wanna i just wanna be that in the way. I live life and relationships and with love for people to say man. He seems different than maybe the normal ceo. I mean don't get me wrong. We we have to be profitable we. Those are the things that can make the make the things spend. But but i think just trying to love people. Well that's that. That's what i want my focus to be a m- every day and i'm not gritty. No i'm not great at it. There's some things that we do that up. Glad we do. And i feel like need to do so much more we have a. We have a team that are giving team like an independent team. Bob ask them just to really make connections within the company and if they hear about needs within people in the company that they're there to help you know financially if the will have that kind of need or man in the tova stuff. We've had multiple people who've experienced kind of the more disco version of coated and They've been out of work for a while and they need help in this group is i just. I love their hearts for the way they've wanted to rally around people and so the giving teams have thing. Yeah it's rental. How do you how do you do that brandon. Just set aside in your budget got x. Number of dollars available for giving team and let them have at it yet. you know. The funny thing is I felt like i used to do that. And just kind of identify number And i discussed at this point. I wanna i wanna say yes to everything you know i like i want them to have the the mindset of just how can we help people even if it's even if it's not a time for each person is how can we help every person and we've had a couple of deaths within the company through the years just be able to rally around spouses of Do some different things. it's i i just think that's important The other piece that you might probably worn out. I i do this class. One of my favorite books have you. Have you read leadership in self-deception haven't it's a it's. It's a short read. It's for my favorite. Yeah it's an allegory book too. So i'm like the worst reader in america so when you hear me say that i've read a book in read it multiple times right. That's actually saying something. I don't read a ton of time but But anyway this book is an allegory. Ian and it walks to the story about how this one person is coaching a new manager to understand the philosophy of how they do business and why they do it and i read the book and i was like man i love. I love what he's doing and and it caused needed say i need to do that like on ever. We have new employees at any level. We have this thing called the connections class and we talk about. What's our history our vision. Our values expectations for every employee. My share my heart my story you know. And and that i really. It's a mutual responsibility. Like can't i can't see my feel everyday is just not not possible. They're they're gone. They're out of this office most of the time. But i'm like man when when you're even close to my office just say hey you know. I'm just the ceo different title. But we're both human beings. And i wanna know you. And you know i've got indirect employed directories that i that i've tried to you know. Study up on you know scott spouses and gives and best is important to me other allies But i just to make in so weaving my faith into. That's just part of my faith is how can i love people. Well number one. I need to know them. I didn't know what was going on with them. And you know. I want to be able to walk with them. Raise for them when they're going through the adversities of life is there absolutely you know in the fight thing is when so right now. My dad is in the er. He has in these. These e r right now is just amazing just to see the number of employees that have reached out to me and said hey i heard about your dad ran for him. You know like it's emotional distinctive out that people they really want to care and they do care and especially when they experience here on the other side so yeah while. I did not know about your data. Hope he's recovering getting better every day. Eating is getting better every day. That's good that's totally. He'll go tomorrow. Great so tell me you got another business at least at least one more that i even know about. I think there might be more. How many businesses you are you involved in right now. Brennan right now yeah couple. Okay there several. So i know i know about integrity. Tell us about integrity. Integrity is a construction management and a general contracting business and so for our listeners. What you see behind me is integrity is work Yeah they did your face on your building. That's right that's right and that it probably describes me some. I m matt you know me well. I am not a very innovative person. Like i do. Not i am not cutting edge with anything. But i feel like. I'm always looking for that intersection of people's desires in opportunity. If i can help if i can help make those two things come together. I love doing that. And i love business. So it's kinda like with integrity. An employee who had a lot of experience with construction management and there was a big need in our ask. Those gaskins employee that There was just a need. A lot of a lot of that. Sector of people during the recession had really gone away And there was a need in oslo. Will hey you know if this is part of what you want to do. Then let's do it so essentially we've just started integrity and it. It has shifted a few times since that original of foundation that one guy ended up taking another business opportunity on but matt donald man about four four and a half years ago and just a great job and it's part of his heart's desire to the community minded and Really he was the one that added that g c side of the business on the construction management. And you know it's great. It's a again still challenges. All the time and lots of problems to solve a you know having partners you know that's another that's another whole topic sure. Is you know trying to be a partner to the other person and provide support in challenge and some mentoring and also a lot of freedom. It's a you know that's not the easiest thing in the world to do a great job proud of what he's doing and integrity matt a little bit and definitely a guy and i can see how you guys get along really well. I bet. and he's a completely different voice in me. Which i think is a part of. That's a whole nother thing. But with them as a connector in me as guardian where we're really are we're very different in our personalities. And i think what we bring to. The table is very different as well and often really us. We've talked about this before. I think sometimes a lot of times people see those differences as problems and folks have a hard time getting along because they see the world differently. You talked about that with. Jani talked about that a little bit with matt but the reality is as many times. That's real strength when you can bring those two different world views together for common good. I seems like you've mastered that approach. Well i mean mastered I've definitely matured more. And i think that begins. You know that was part of my giant journey as well. The first step was seeing people as people right. Not as objects i think was the tutti arctic migros and then the three dimensional part of my growth has been learning value. All kinds of evil are different. You know is just natural to think that the way you're wired is the best way to be wired and say you only want yelling wanna just like you right in maturity thumbs. Feel when you can begin to appreciate people who are different than you and bring different things to the table. you know. i'm not perfect to that. But i'm trying to. I'm trying to get better. At really recognizing man situationally there tons of people who are way better than me at certain things in situations and i'm better than them in certain situations depending on. Just your voice in your wiring. Nature nurture choices all that stuff. I remember way back. When before i got familiar with myers briggs and got plugged into the giant nomenclature of the five voices. I was kind of a disguise like the assessment. But i just remember specifically talking with the test consultant where we bought the disk tasks they would say. Hey you know you're you're probably gonna wanna have your team charted out on this disc chart and you want it to look like a shotgun shot. You know you you want. You want some d you want some. I want some ass you know you wanna you wanna have everybody grouped into together. And i've found that that's completely true that that when you've got a diverse business with multiple voices ed play or you can get a lot accomplished when you kind of bring all those strengths together and yeah there's some friction from time to time because somebody acts differently or communicates differently than than we do but ultimately the strength. You also see that in just relationships you know. We all heard opposites attract and. i can't tell you how. Many couples i know and maureen and i are are a couple like this where our personalities are very different and that could be seen as a negative but in reality bring those two together and new. We can accomplish a lot together. The that opposites attract is actually a really positive thing. Yeah you nance served. You're basically the same person right. It was embarrassing because of one of the first books that came out was from giant. Was the five voices and actually didn't really know nancy's voice at the time okay and And i was speculating in the book. It says it wasn't actually what her voice ended up being yet says he how much i i know her turns out. She's a creative. Which which is kinda my nemesis voice. It's kinda hardest for me to see navigate. No but but you know. I think the creatives earn enough. Thank you brennan there. There's there's such a low percentage of creatives in the world in yet. I know in. France with many creatives. It's mind boggling white lovable people sometimes someti- maybe it's my problem solving cincinnati them a lot of work to do their ample ample opportunity Speaking of nancy you're so you're running several businesses a couple. Several is what you said. You're active church. I think i counted four kids and they're all over the place college high school and then what middle school you don't have you don't have anybody in elementary still don't match twelve nights and sophomore more gala. Wow how do you balance that. I mean that's a lot that's just a lot and you know and you were even talking about multiple locations in this business trying to be present with one hundred people. How in the world do you balance all of that or do you. Well i think in general with multiple businesses home life and a concept that there was a couple that let our small group. This was this was probably in the early two thousands and they they are very intentional. Couple and have lots of influence in the community. And you know our remember sunday talking to me about overlapping and how important overlapping has end to the way they do all that they do and in would say that something that stuck with me and i try to do that within so my my business relationships in friendships many times have a lot of overlap. In so i. I try to be intentional about You know maybe checking boxes is the wrong word but you know what i'm saying. I'm trying to connect and be intentional with vomit. might it might influence multiple situations. Then i'd say with my kids they're really great and they're all different. Which is hilarious. They're you know if you're if you're a parent of multiple kids. It's funny because they're not necessarily going to be just like you and they're going to be different than you and so all of this leadership training has helped me a lot to see my kids for who they are like as individuals and i tried to see them individually and be with them individually with four kids. You know they want to be known you know. I think that's i wanna be known and so a might try to take take one the breakfast or lunch. We try to do some special trips. That are just one one and we try to do some. That are family too. So might try to nancy. Not try to go on a date every week with us. One of the things early in our marriage we just felt like it was important and we see experiences as important as well. And so we. We just try to be intentional. S really that seems like such generic answer. But that's probably. My answer is just being intentional. There's so much wasted time. Like simmons time and there's just so much wasted time that if you are intentional about the way you use your time in outbreak on you matt your like your schedule senior schedule. Your fellow coated schedule. i love it. I mean you're very intentional. With how you use your time. And you know. I i try to be and and i think when you are intentional. It does help you to be able to balance things. I've been working more recently. That has to do with probably capacity of count. What i'll say before our role and a really don't like that because i really wanna be more present. I wanna be more present mentally and physically with my family and and with my friends and you know and with the people here at work you know so well. That's a lot. Tell me you as you look ahead. What's what's what's next for you. What's what does the future look like. we're all. I think we're all sort of okay. We're gonna get through this pandemic. finally you know we're all going to take a trip somewhere and maybe sit on a beach and have a cocktail or something like that but beyond that. What's what's sort of your plan for the next several years. So i'm forty six and so i've begun to maybe look at chunks of my life. You know maybe fifties next milestone. i think my latest thought it was just trying not to get too far ahead of myself. And i really. I'm excited about what we're doing gaskins and and integrity and i know that giant will always be a part of my you know my heart in my life and so i want to do more of that as i can. I want to be giving away. What's given me so leading small groups. It really feels like probably more of the same But i will say in particular. I just really love business. And so our mutual ranch add merrill who. He's been on the schedule. So i've got some connection with them partner with them on some things and it's been really fun to see to see businesses kind of he and i look at some different stuff together and i feel like i'm always kind of in this state of learning. You know when you when you get to see other businesses and other. Ceo's in the way they do things that's a learning opportunity rights pan. you know. i i need to. I need to really consider that. S a great idea into the more. I get exposed more businesses. The more ideas it gives me about a all. So that's that's not real clear plan for my future. It's probably just the more of the same. And and if i was being really honest with you matt i would say i just wanna be where the lord wants me to be. And i'm an. I'm open to that. Is i just know that when when i'm trying to get model way probably missing out on probably the best things that are in store for me and so i'm trying not to think too much about it even though man i can't wait to be empty nesting. I'm yeah that's pretty fun. i. I'm not i'm not gonna lie is pretty fun. It's nice goes by it. Goes by super-quick. But i think people really learn. It goes where that phrase comes from time flies when their when their parents but You know raymond. And i relatively new empty nesters over the past year or so and look back and say cash you know in some ways in the middle of parenting is seem like this is our life right and then when you're an empty nester and your kids are off on their own doing their own thing it's like wow that was really a flash in the pan as twenty years basically and if you are lucky enough to live to eighty it's only twenty five percent of your life. It goes by very very quickly. So yeah i know you're me. It's going to be more like thirty years. spread spreading our. We kinda knocked ours out back to back. Go through pretty quick. all that's awesome brandon. Good job let's move on to the lightning rounds. So this is just a few questions we try and ask every guest of the rockettes. Business bob guests. And you know. I've i'm going to be very interested to hear your answer to this. Tell us about. One person has made a profound impact on your journey. All right i'm gonna take to just the off talked so much about jeremy. Jeremy for sure has been a catalyst for a lot of positive change in life. So jeremy has been very influential in my life. There's got him david eldridge. She's my pastor and you know he's my best friend and two. We planted a church together in two thousand six and we. We have less together every wednesday and would just say his so. It's been like twenty years. We've on everyone's day and he. I would say he has been such an encourage her in just a model for me. Descend lending life and bouncing ideas off of sheeran. Burdens and problems. And you know it's interesting. You know he knows more gaskins than anybody. And he's not even in gaskins ryan so anyway i just. He has been very influential just by being there sharing time and then just living his life with integrity and character. So mentors are so important. Yeah and sounds like you've got to really great once. Yeah sure what's the single most important lesson you've learned in your professional career easily. The the people that like seeing people people in the in valuing seeing them and then learning how to value people that are different from you. Probably both of those bluff together. The people part for sure. But i'm naturally. I'm naturally more of a competence type person Naturally me learning. That other side changed everything for my business in life. Love it so you said you're not readings. Maybe not your favorite thing. Are you a podcast guy. What what sort of has your attention right now. And how do you learn new things. I love talking to other ios for sure like i love. That's that's that's my best tutorial in. I'm i'm left. I've i've read a lot of books I don't listen to gas but i don't remember now man. Yeah i I don't read a lot of new books. Have on that okay. It's kinda like if they get if they get tested. And before like oh. I love this book. He the advantage is a great book. And i hear three people say that okay. Well then i'll read the book so you have the public fed up for you. That's right that's right. That's kind of the story my life you might be. You're cutting edge than i am so I'm i'm gonna wait in so books like great by choice integrity leadership and self-deception which mission there's one other pursuit of god that i just read. That's well that was pretty awesome fantastic so if people wanna learn more about you or gaskins or integrity. What's the best way for them to reach out. And find more information. Just email me had be hudson's at ese. Survey dot com our phone number seven seven zero four two four seven six eight. I'm probably call me. Oh myself let alone net filter that nice job right on that note. I think it's time to wrap things up brandon for myself on our audience. Thank you for joining us today into our listeners. Thank you for tuning in. Should you have any suggestions on future topics that you'd like to hear more about. Please email us at podcasts at rocket. It dot com and finally a quick plug for rocket. It we help. Businesses leverage technology to create seamless networks that encourage productivity and profitability to learn how a personalized roadmap can bring efficiency to your business and clarity to your team visit rocket. It dot com slash roadmap dash elp or. Click the lincoln this episodes description.

johnny gaskins jeremy brandon brandon hutchins matt hiatt nancy brandon cranston young georgia tech lawrenceville ernst young ersan yang gaskins gaskins Johnny gaskins ranan marietta Jeremy kubitschek shaw east mohammadi steve cochran
53. Donald Pee Wee Gaskins: The Meanest Man in America

Reverie True Crime

34:22 min | 1 year ago

53. Donald Pee Wee Gaskins: The Meanest Man in America

"Hey listeners are you a fan of true crime? If you're listening to this podcast, then you most certainly are. During these strange times are you looking for a new true crime podcast? The new who found your new true crime obsession. My podcast riddle me that true crime covers both older cases as well as current ones I cover both well known and more obscure cases such a strange death of Blair Adams, the cyanide coffee murder of municipality. And the disappearance of SRI. Lanka's richest man who polly was your ardine. That true crime is available on Apple Google play spotify Stitcher, and wherever you listen to your podcast. Thank you now back to the show. Welcome to, reverie? True. Crime I'm your host page and today I'll be discussing one of the many twisted serial killers. Donald Gaskins also known as pee wee? Gaskins. Let's get right into it. Donald Henry Gaskins was born on the thirteenth of March and Nineteen ninety-three. You was born and raised in Florence Candy South Carolina. who was the youngest of the children born out of wedlock? He was always short for his age and everyone called him peewee. Even, when he was an adult, he was just five four and weighed about one hundred and thirty pounds. During his childhood. neglected. When he was only one year old Donald. Gulp down a bottle of kerosene. Until. He was three years old. He would have convulsions related to the incident. He didn't even know that his name was actually Donald. Until he read it aloud when he had to go to court for the first time, which we will get into very shortly because his crimes started at a very young age. His mother lived with various man through his childhood and they would beat him while his mother turned the other way. Donald's mom got married and his stepfather always abused him and his four half siblings. His own mother would also sell him to other men who would write in. The abuse in his life not only happened at home, but it spilled over into his school life. He would always get into altercations with nudges boys, but girls is well. You would get punished by his teachers alive. By the time he was eleven, he gave up on school. At only eleven years old. He began mechanic work at a garage town and he would go home and help out on the farm. while. He was working at the garage. He meant to other boys his age that had also dropped out of school named Danny and Marsh. They started to break into homes and even picked up sex workers together in the neighboring cities. They started to dub themselves that trouble trio. Donald Danny and marsh would reich little boys. But the little boys never told on the three because they were threatened to keep their mouths shut. They were eventually called gang raping marshes, little sister, and as punishment for that, the parents tied the boys up and gave them a thrashing until they were bleeding. Shortly, after this happened Daniel Marsh vacated the town. Donald went off on his own to keep burglarizing people's houses. And Nineteen Forty six donald was now thirteen years old and a little girl caught him breaking into her house. She went after Donald with an axe, but he wrestled away from her. Donald struck her in the head and the arm with it. He ran away after she passed out the girl made it through this assault and Donald was taken into custody. He was tried for his beating the young girl and he was found guilty of assault with a deadly weapon with the intent to kill. During this was when he actually found out that his name was donald and not be we. Donald was to be set away to the South Carolina Industrial School for boys until he turned eighteen. At this school for boys who was gang raped by twenty. When he decided to give sexual favors to avoid they called false boy and in return this boss boy would protect him from the others. Donald trump to run away from the school but his attempts always fail he ended up being sexually and physically abused among those in boss Boys Gang. Donald was desperate to get out of there. He continued his attempts to escape which only led to fight with security. He was eventually directed to a State Mental Hospital for observation. The doctors there found him sane and sent him back to the school. After a few days he started to try to get away again and it worked. He even started to be a part of a traveling carnival and not long after his escape. While he was with traveling carnival, he met and wed a thirteen year old girl. He did decide to turn himself over to the COPS so he could complete his sentence school. On the thirteenth of March nineteen, fifty one which was his eighteenth birthday as time there was done. For a short time, he did work on a tobacco plantation until nineteen, fifty three. During his time there, he and a friend started to get together with other tobacco farmers and they agreed to help them commit insurance fraud. They burned down there barnes for money. Word got of course about all of these barns that were just going down in flames all of a sudden and people started to suspect Donald had something to do with it. And Nineteen fifty-three at teenage female. The daughter of his employer was brutally attacked by Donald with a hammer just because she asked him if he had anything to do with the Barnes burning down. This landed him and the South Carolina opinion, and he was sentenced to five years there for another salt with a deadly weapon and attempted murder. He was again rate in the prison repeatedly and was quote unquote owned by one of the prison gang leaders. Donald Thaw of the only way he could have a chance at surviving these next few years in the PAN would be to murder a man in the prison that everyone was scared of. He was the quote. Unquote. Power Man Hazel Brazil. which in return made the others respect him. How he went about this was he made Hazel things that they were good buddies and gained his trust. One day Donald Slit his throat. He was convicted of manslaughter and spent six months in solitary confinement. When he was out in the general population again, he was considered the big dog now the quote unquote power man of the prison and it made his I'm there go a lot smoother and nineteen, fifty, five, his wife divorced him, and this caused him to freak out. He escaped gave the penitentiary, stole a vehicle and high tailed it to Florida where he joined another carnival. He also got married to another girl which didn't last longer than two weeks. Then he met a woman named Betty Gates. Betty was a part of the carnival they were romantically involved and went together to Cookeville Tennessee to bail out her brother from jail. As Donald goes inside with the bail money and a carton of cigarettes, he doesn't meet the brother. Hey drops these things off and then walks over to the hotel that he am betty were staying at and then he realized that she had run away in his car the police had to break it to donald that who he was trying to bail out was actually not betty's brother it was her husband and inside that carton of cigarettes was a razor blade which the guy had used to escape the jail. So, Betty and her husband were long gone and Donald's car. The cops would soon find out that Donald wasn't quite an angel himself and also an escapee. They sent him back to prison when they found out. He had nine months added onto his sentence for the escape and for stabbing another inmate. He was also convicted later on for stealing a car and driving it across state lines which landed him and federal prison for three years and Atlanta Georgia. While he was in this federal prison, he became close to Frank Castillo a mafia boss who nicknamed on the little hatchet man, and he also told on all that he was welcomed to work for him in the future if he wanted. An August of nineteen, sixty, one donald. Gaskins was released and he went back to his hometown of Florence South Carolina. He worked in tobacco sheds, but he couldn't keep himself out of trouble for too long. He began to break into homes again while at the same time, he was employed as a driver and assistant to a traveling minister. Since, the minister traveled around Donald took that as a way to break into different homes and different towns. He got married again in nineteen, sixty two but that didn't stop him from his horrendous. He raped a twelve year old little girl. He was taken into custody but he escaped through a courthouse window before his trial. Gone Away and another stolen car and fled in North Carolina. While there, he met a seventeen year old and tied the knot yet again. She found out about his dirty deeds and she handed him right over to the cops. Donald was convicted of statutory rate and was sentenced to six years in prison. November of nineteen, sixty eight, he was paroled on one condition that he not ever come back to Florence. By this time Donald was boiling with rage a blind animosity of society in general females in particular Recchi. Later said plagued him with physical aches and pains like hot red and his stomach and growing. Donald said he had quote them voted and bothersome failings in quote that would eat away at him and push him over the edge and his criminal acts. In September of Nineteen sixty-nine, he picked up a female hitchhiker in north, Carolina. When he asked her for sex she laughed at him and that may donald extremely array. He started brutally assault her until she was passed out. He raped sodomized and disemboweled her when he was done, he drowned her in a swamp. He later said what he did was a vision and to his bothersome failings that were continuously lingering inside of him. When he found a way to keep these feelings satisfied, it would become what motivated him and his life. And his memoir he said quote all I can think about is how I could do anything I wanted to her. In quote the leaving the scene Donald recalled his feelings saying quote. I felt truly the best. I've ever remembered feeling in my whole life and quote. He tried to get his technique of torturing just right. Donald. Would mutilate people and keep them hanging onto their lives for days on end. Tom Only, make his mind darker more terrifying place. He would begin to eat pieces of his victims that he would cut off of their bodies and not only that he would make him watch or even at times take part in the consumption. His preference were females. He really hated women. But he would still go on to commit heinous crimes against males as well. On down the line, he says by Nineteen, seventy, five, he ed murdered. Her younger males and females that he found on the highways of north. Carolina. He would relish in these bothersome failings now more than fight the. It started to feel good. and his mind, the coastal killings were just something to do on the weekend and not significant murders. Killing people that he knew is what he considered serious murders. One of what he would call his more serious murders was the one of his knees Janez. Kirby. Age Fifteen and her friend Patricia and also broke. In the year of nineteen seventy he told the girls that he would give them a lift the bar. Instead he drove them to an abandoned house. Donald ordered the girls to take off their clothes. They really fought shes survived. They picked up a board and whacked him really good until he pulled his gun out on them. You would write them beat them until they passed out and drowned the votes, them bearing them and different locations. He said he always played with the thought of raping his niece, but he never had the chance until that night. The police asked him about their whereabouts. He said the last he saw the girls they were alive. He lied and said that they got into a car with several guys that he didn't recognize. there. Wasn't any evidence and their cases went cold for years. Donald took the smallest bray during his murderous rampage to get married to his girlfriend who was with child on the first of January of Nineteen seventy-one. That was merely a slight interference. He committed another murder that he would categorize is serious even though we know they were all serious. It was the killing of a twenty year old name Martha. Dick's. Data was charmed by Donald. She would even go to his job at the car repair shop and spend time with him. She was also his first black victim. Martha would joke to friends that she and Donald were friends they were lovers. Donald put up with the Tall Tales until Martha started saying, she was pregnant with his baby. Donald told her to come over one evening after work. He fixed up some food for Martha with a lethal overdose of pills and alcohol. Then he dumped her dead body and a roadside ditch. People labeled him a racist but donald maintained quote I didn't kill her for no reason besides her lying mouse end quote. And late nineteen. seventy-one Donald moved to Charleston with his wife and child proceeding to commit his next to serious murders. and. Nineteen seventy two. The victims were twenty, four year old Eddie, Brown who was a gun runner and Eddie's wife Birdie Donald said she was quote the best looking black girl I saw in quote. Donald, sold firearms to Eddie as well as stolen military weapons, but he began to get a little jumpy when Eddie him know that the feds were keeping a close eye on Charleston. They were on the lookout for illegal weapons dealers. Donald got paranoid and thought they could possibly be setting him up. He wasn't going to take any chances. So he shot Eddie and Birdie Brown, then he put them behind the barn where he had concealed Janice Herbie and nineteen seventy. Donald moved to prospect South Carolina and July of Nineteen seventy-three. This was after his Charleston residents went down in a blaze of fire. He accused arsonist for the fire, but never could pinpoint or give them any details about the perpetrators. Before nineteen seventy-three was over he more than three victims. Fourteen year old runaway Jackie Freeman was first. Donald offered her lived while she was hitchhiking in October and held her hostage for two days. Raping torturing and aiding her body. Parts. Quote. I always thought of Jackie special not really a serious murder, but likewise, not just another coastal kill. In quote which he said in his memoirs. Donald Ball this old hers and nineteen seventy-three. He told people at the bar that he frequented that he needed it to carry out all the people that he murdered to confidential graveyard. He made him prospect south, Carolina. He had even put us sign in the window that said we haul anything living or dead. He was living in prospect south, Carolina. With his wife and baby and people always thought he had a bizarre and sometimes explosive behavior possibly even mentally ill but they never consider donald the type that would do anything treacherous. SOM-. Even thought, of Donald, as a true friend. Unfortunately. One of those people who thought she had a friendship with him was twenty three year old Doreen Dempsey? She was not married. She took care of her two year old daughter and she was eight months pregnant with her second child. She wanted to leave town and Donald offered her a ride to the bus station. However. She never made it there. He drove to a wooded area raped and murdered her. Afterwards he right and sodomized the baby. After, the baby had passed away, he buried them together. Donald was later defined writing it and vent as the best sexual experience of his life. Through it all Donald took comfort in the fact that he was quote one of the few that truly understands what death painter all of out I have a special kind of Marin that allows me to give myself permission to kill. In, quote. Donald serious murders would carry on and nineteen, seventy four. Thirty, six year, old car thieves, Johnny Sellers, owed Donald One thousand dollars for auto parts, but he was taking his wait time to pay him. Donald got sick and tired of the excuses. He told Johnny sellers to meet him in the woods and then Donald shot him where the rifle. That same night hoping to hinder the missing persons, investigations of Johnny Donald got in touch with Johnny's girlfriend twenty, two year old Jesse Ruth, Judi and spirit her to death moving her corpse to the woods to bury her alongside her lover. Another car thieves and con man named Horace. Jones. made a deadly wander attempting to Romance Donald Current Wife and Nineteen, seventy four. Donald said in his memoir final truth quote that pissed me off in quote. And it wasn't that he tried to romance her exactly. But he said quote I mean if he comes straight me like a man and asked to make a deal with me for my wife I would probably have given to him for night or we or to keep if the offer was good enough. and quote. After Shooting Horace, Jones in the woods, he stole two hundred dollars from horaces dead body before leaving. By December nineteen seventy four donald was now grandfather settled into a routine that suited him and satisfied his needs. that. Christmas season he recalled was quote the happiest and peaceful as I can remember and quote. And? Nineteen seventy-five Donald was forty two years old and even though he was grandfather, he refers to nineteen seventy five as quote my busiest and killing his year in quote. He got away with it mostly because he had never involved anyone else in the highway slash coastal killings. But in nineteen, seventy, five of van was unfortunately broken down the highway. Two women and one man who he said were hippy types from Oregon. He offered these people Araj who garage that was close by. But instead, he drove them to a swamp and handcuff them as he held his gun on them. He proceeded to drown them. He said about these drownings quote it was hard to say which one suffered most. I tried to make it equal in quote. He realized he needed assistance from someone to move these bodies. He went to ex-convict Walter neely. Walter got the van up and running. He drove it to Donald Garage, or Donald gave it a whole new paint job so he could eventually sell it. Also. In nineteen seventy, five donald was given fifteen hundred dollars to take the life of a rich farmer named solace yates who resided in Florence County. The person who gave him the money was a better an infuriated girlfriend of Sallis's named Suzanne Kipper. Two men John. Powell. And John Owens where the go betweens Zan and Donald to assemble the killing. The ex-convict Walter. Neely, his wife Diane got in on the act pretending to have car trouble to trick solace into leaving his house on February twelve. Donald then kidnapped and killed solace as John, Powell and John Owens stood back and watched. After. It was over John Powell John Owens and Donald buried solace. Not long after this incident Walters wife Diane. She had a boyfriend to. He was also an ex convict named. Avery Howard. Dan, avery tried to blackmail donald for five thousand dollars or else they would tell everything that happened. Well. Donald got rid of those two really fast. They. Met Up expecting to get their money and stead they pulled up to a grave with donald dare gun in hand. He shot them dug the grave, a little deeper gout, the man and through the dirt back on top of them. Down old was also really busy on his murdering spree continuing to torture people that he knew. Thirteen year old Ken Calkins turned down his offer of sex. He was not happy about it. So he went on to rape torture and strangle her then he put her body in a shallow grave in the woods. To local guys named Johnny night who was fifteen and Dennis Bellamy who was twenty eight didn't know how savage Donald was. They thought they'd get away with Robbing Donald Repair Shop, and of course, they didn't. Donald slaughtered them and buried them. Yet, again, he had to ask for Walter neely's. To. Bury these shoe. Donald considered Walter a close and loyal friend. He even took walters his private cemetery. As Donald was killing people left and right he had no idea that there was an investigation going on into the missing thirteen year old can Gilligan's Everything they had pointed directly to Donald. The authorities had a search warrant and went through Donald's apartment. FOUND CANS clothes, and when Donald got back from Georgia on the fourteenth of November nineteen, seventy, five, he saw the cops were surrounding his house. Sing says he went to a bus station intending to get back to Georgia but the police caught him before he was able to get out of the state. He was indicted for having a part in the delinquency of child. He sat in jail waiting for his trial to begin. Since Donald was locked up and unable to get into Walter, neely's heads and manipulate or have any control of him, the cops decided to crack down on Walter and break him and they absolutely accomplish that goal during questioning. Walter cracked and took them to Donald's secluded graveyard on the land that Donald on. The authorities found eight of the victim's bodies. As he recalled that chaotic month, he said quote the coroner had the bodies Jesus had Walter and the law had me an quote. The twenty seventh of April, Nineteen seventy-six, Donald, Gaskins, and Walter neely or charged with eight counts of murder. Donald trying to act like he didn't do anything and that he himself was a victim. That didn't pan out for him and on the twenty fourth of May. The jury concluded that he was guilty of murdering Dennis Bellamy one of the two who robbed his shop. He was sentenced to death. He decided that he would go on and tell the truth about the seven other homicides. He was to serve seven life sentences consecutively after the US Supreme Court ruled that the death penalty in South Carolina wasn't constitutional in November of Nineteen, seventy six. And prison he relished and the over the top way that other inmates treated him because he had his reputation of a merciless killer. Well in Nineteen, seventy eight, the death penalty was in fact reestablished in South Carolina. Donald didn't care until he was found guilty of killing another inmate named Rudolph tonner. Rudolph was on death row for killing an older couple named bill and Myrtle Moon. This son of Mardell gave Donaldson money to take out Rudolf. He tried a few times by lacing his food and drinks poison however, that strategy didn't work. So. Donald finally took Rudolph sly by assembling a radio with explosives which blew up on Rudolph and killed him. The radio was in Rudolph Cell and Donald told him he could fix it up where it would allow them to communicate between sales. Donald instructed Rudolf to hold the speaker to his ear at time that they both decided on. Donald detonated the explosives from his sale and that is how Rudolph tyner died. Donald later stated quote the last thing tonner heard was me laughing and quote? This is when he was now called the meanest man in America. He received a death sentence yet again. He tried to avoid the electric chair by continually admitting to all of the homicides he committed. Nobody has determined if everything he confessed to were facts. But if by chance he was telling the truth, it would make him the most depraved murderer of all time and South Carolina. He said he murdered thirteen year old Peggy Cotino who was the daughter of a well-known. And South Carolina with Father Being the South Carolina? State. Senator James Cotino Junior. However a man named William, peers had already been convicted of killing and he was spending life in prison for it. Since they couldn't verify anything he was saying was true and likely he wasn't telling the truth about a lot of it. They didn't accept his confessions. The authorities said he was just saying this for the media. Donald started collaborating with the author Wilton Earl and his final months to write his book called Final Truth and went she was tape-recorded chronicling his wife. The book was published in Nineteen Ninety-three. Donald recounts his killings and his bothersome failings that were telling him inside. The day he was to be executed was not that far away. He started to turn into a one of these philosopher telling why he killed and about his rendezvous with death. As a lot of murderers usually do donald didn't WanNa go to the electric chair after taking lives. So brutally, he struggled hard to evade being killed himself. The day he was supposed to be executed. He slit his wrists. This was an attempt to delay his demise. However, they stitched him up and he was putting the chair right on schedule. Donald Gaskins was pronounced deceased at the Broad River Correctional Institution by electrocution at one five in the morning on the sixth of September nineteen ninety one. His last words before he died or quote I'll let my lawyers taught for me. I'm ready to go and quote. He was fifty eight years old. We may never know how truthful his Book Final Truth Really, is. Maybe just wanted to be known as one of the most prolific serial killers and not just a little bland in the world. A lot of killers want to be known for what they did and how brutally they did it. It seems he strived to have that reputation of a bad ass most of his life ever since he stopped being the victims of bullies as peewee and turned into the bully Donald The attacker. He. said that he murdered over one hundred people there was never any proof of that and he could never inform anyone where he put the bodies. And that is the story of Donald Gaskins. Thank you so much for listening. Also, if you've had scary or creepy encounter with someone or a paranormal experience holies email them to me at reverie true crime at g, mail DOT COM. I WANNA do episodes and October called Spook Tober stories and I would love Jurado your listeners stories on the show. Just, let me know if you would like to remain anonymous and you can also change the names in your stories. Until next time as always stay safe and stay healthy.

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Floyd Mayweather Fight

Best of The Steve Harvey Morning Show

05:57 min | 5 months ago

Floyd Mayweather Fight

"It's father's day at kohl's even though kohl's believes dads deserve more than just one day. They deserve to be recognized every day. That's why they have tons of awesome gifts. Dads are gonna love year round from outdoor entertaining to team apparel in assessories to watch baseball. Hats and fur doors to active wear from top brands like nike adidas and under armour. You'll find all his favorite things at kohl's so shop now at kohls dot com. It's the perfect way to thank all the dads in your life. Peewee gaskins was not. My friend is a new true crime. Podcast from iheartradio and doghouse pictures. He chilled whatever he wanted to win. He wanted to pee wee manipulated one unwitting accessory into aiding him with this final murder. Take much to find out the truth about listening. Follow pee wee. Gaskins was not my friend on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Live junior here with sportstalk. What you got junior. Okay shirley but i i got a reminder about that tomorrow tomorrow to cures hope fun. Run and five k is happening in dallas. At the marlins he'll be Tomorrow for sickle sale. I'm doing this. I'm ready to see everybody. Tomorrow is gonna be great man. Come on out have fun get vaccinated and they don't forget that the afternoon we haven't day party at san daca eight one. Three starting at three pm go to. I love music. That event. bright dot com. Get your tickets now with that being said don't forget now that june six is coming everybody and don't forget this is an nba playoff. But we gotta remember this happened. Jay floyd mayweather vs logan paul. Hard rock stadium in miami florida. Eight roundabout happening sunday. Who we go with this. The greatest of powerful pound floyd mayweather a gift internet since facing logan. Paul oh my goodness this the same man. That took floyd headset. I got your head. You said employ go to flow with this boy man. I really do you know. He is a little taller than floor height advantage. Before i got the experience. And also fight and logan paul really. Don't be fighting buddy. I don't really see why he would think that this would work. I don't even know well. You know like you know like he fight people they staged fights and stuff like that floyd fights. Why would you go in. Here's a different between fighting and boxing. It's a big difference. Well homages he go get a couple of me. You know me that might be. His reason would be that would be you. You be naturally mind. I know i ain't gonna win. But i'll dance. I can't you see me. Climb in the ring with mike. Tyson is two things you know for. She'll steve getting a whole lot of money. Steve fin fang. I i where to god. I'm not coming out for the bail. Had to check up. You still got to go. You got money. yeah. I'm with the one hard ass push. It ain't gonna do a damn thing nine now man. I property if you were you could make a hunting me and you had to take two solid budgets from my talk which do how hunting tool solid budgets for mike tyson. Now the head. Yeah in the hey i want you know you might not even be able to hundred well. I'm watching the fights. man. I got hispanic. This is this gonna be some. Is it one way all right junior. Thank you now coming up at the top of the hour. We got some comedy roulette for you right after this. You're listening to steve harvey morning show. In the last century we've gone from fighting in trenches to attacking networks from iron lungs to artificial pocket watches to pocket computers. The model t to the mars rover. We are on the brink of interplanetary space travel and if we can colonize another planet then the future of the human race is almost guaranteed. The problem is we don't really understand how our brains work. We don't even know for sure why we need to sleep or how. Memories are formed the final frontier expiration is not the ocean of the stars. It's our minds. Prodigy is all grown up and in season two. We're gonna explore a bunch of new topics like how to hack humans in teach teachers. Chronic pain chiropractors colts in cybersecurity the psychopathology of narcissism and how to control your dreams. My name is lola berlanti. And i'm really interested in why we do the things we do listener prodigy. Starting june ninth on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah no. I'm not okay. That's how i feel sometimes and that's also the name of many podcast from elliot's studios. I want whoever outlives me to be like. She didn't die a broken person. She healed herself addiction. Depression anxiety radical self love. Yeah no i'm not. Okay your new favorite podcast from elliot's studios and me diane gerardo listen to yan. No i'm not. Okay on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Trending Weed News

Best of The Steve Harvey Morning Show

03:51 min | 4 months ago

Trending Weed News

"Black culture has had a remarkable in worldwide impact on american culture music. June is black music. Month and ford partnered with legendary deejay denies to discuss the legacy and future of black music inspires him and how he brought people together through the universal language of music during pandemic ford is proud to celebrate black cultural moments like black music month throughout the year because when we remember recognize and respect we all move forward built. Ford proud built ford tough. Ford motor company is committed to the remembrance and celebration of black cultural and historical moments. American history is not complete without the inclusion of the history and experience of african americans. So we join you an honoring juneteenth celebration of freedom and equality for all americans. It is a significant marker on the journey of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness for everyone when we remember recognize and respect. We all move forward. The one purpose of the ford motor company is to help build a better world where every person is free to move and pursue their dreams. All right entrenching. We'd news that's right. I said we'd genucel jay. Pay attention during a recent interview snoop. Dogg opened up smoking with some of his celebrity friends. He opened up about it. Apparently saturday night live pete. Davidson davidson cannot hang with the dogfather. Meanwhile snoop said willie nelson is the celebrity that out smokes him said the two of them were doing back to back concerts back in two thousand seven in amsterdam and snoops it. I had to stop because he was blowing me out the water first hand. I don't know what sh- new smokes. But i took of it when he came on this show and i had to go home. Tommy he would love. We knew snoop when he got into building. You can smell it here. J. one hit what outside. What i found out he was sitting on the steps of the steve harvey show his head down. I said jaco home. And i gotta go down a crate. That stoop doesn't smoke with is his wife of twenty. Four years shuntei brodus. He says that's because she quit a while back. She's a great reflection of what i should be. One day. he noted smile. Have more of steve harvey morning show at thirty three minutes. After right after this. You're listening to morning. Show people treat yourself like you need a reason. But mcdonald's streets are perfect for every day like bold mcvay iced coffee get any size for dollar sixty nine or pick up any size sweet tea dollar. The largest served an insulated cup that keeps not cold feeling a little extra something something tried. The classic bakery speaks like an apple fritter as to treat yourself. You don't need an excuse. Just come back tomorrow but up up up. Prices and participation may vary cannot be combined with any other offer combo meal pee wee gaskins was not. My friend is a new true crime. Podcast from iheartradio doghouse. Pictures just chilled. He wanted to win. He wanted to pee wee manipulated one unwitting accessory into hating him with final murder. It didn't take much to find out the truth about them listening. Follow pee wee. Gaskins was not my friend on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Barack Obama's Epic Speech

Best of The Steve Harvey Morning Show

04:08 min | 5 months ago

Barack Obama's Epic Speech

"It's father's day at kohl's even though kohl's believes dads deserve more than just one day. They deserve to be recognized every day. That's why they have tons of awesome gifts. Dads are gonna love year round from outdoor entertaining to team apparel in assessories to watch baseball. Hats and fur doors to active wear from top brands like nike adidas under armour. You'll find all his favorite things at kohl's so shop now at kohls dot com. It's the perfect way to thank all the dads in your life to local families at the center of the most notorious crime in ohio's history eight people dead all from the same family issues calculated. This was cold core now on the five year anniversary of the massacre in the middle of production on this podcast breaking news right now. A shocking confession. None of us. We're expecting what you wish to get her missing to. The pectin massacre return to pay county production of studios every wednesday on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts alright. Junior is here with sports talk. Would you got junior high. This is the best practice ever a youth. Football team of cargo. Got the surprise. Visit on tuesday when none other than president. Barack obama came through to give an epic pump of speed popped up at jackson park visitors. Cargo southside wolf pack football team and with the kids and the coaches lost month when they saw the local legend president obama in the to be how does a kids they probably about ten eight nine ten they will lead full body number. Forty four jumped up. Were losing may mind. You know man that i would. I have a partner. I don't have a party. It's a guy that works in. His little brother has only known black president. The first president. He knew his name was barack obama. He doesn't know the monumental significance. She was born in two thousand eight he was yesterday. That's crazy and for eight years. He was it. That's how i present. President is look as the first time in quickly. Let me tell you who can't show up at a league for bugging. Why can't you know what steve harvey morning. Show coming up at thirty three minutes after the hour. Right after this. You're listening to morning show to the planet. Charlemagne god here and you don't wanna miss. Hello somebody with senator nina turner on the black effect podcast network. I love hello somebody simply. Because i love nina turner she's fearless amina turner hell raisin humanitarian sister in the struggle and recovering elected officials. Listen to hello somebody every thursday on our heart radio app apple podcast or whatever you get your podcast pee. Wee gaskins was not. My friend is a new true crime. Podcast from iheartradio and doghouse pictures. He just chilled. Whatever he wanted to win he wanted to pee wee manipulated unwitting accessory into hating him with this final murder. It didn't take much to find out the truth about them. Listen and follow pee. Wee gaskins was not my friend on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Alot Mo' VS

Best of The Steve Harvey Morning Show

05:24 min | 5 months ago

Alot Mo' VS

"It's father's day at kohl's even though kohl's believes dads deserve more than just one day. They deserve to be recognized every day. That's why they have tons of awesome gifts. Dads are gonna love year round from outdoor entertaining to team apparel in assessories to watch baseball. Hats and fur doors to active wear from top brands like nike adidas and under armour. You'll find all his favorite things at kohl's so shop now at kohls dot com. It's the perfect way to thank all the dads in your life. Westwards podcast about the birth of professional basketball in los angeles with the city's two teams represent today is told through the man who was and is at the center of both jerry west production of the dan patrick podcast network within a westward on the iheartradio app on apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast. What's going on okay. President biden says voting rights are under siege in america. He called it unprecedented and un-american during a speech in tulsa biden said the right to vote as possibly the most fundamental right under the constitution. Five noted that he'll have much more to say about voting rights in the coming weeks and meanwhile vice-president kamala harris has been tapped to protect the voting rights of all americans. President biden asked harris to lead the administration's efforts saying the right to vote is possibly again the most fundamental right under the constitution. The vice president said in a statement that democracy is strongest when everyone participates and weaker. When people are left out she also noted that more people than ever voted in the last election since then over three hundred bills have been introduced across the country making it harder not easier harder for citizens to vote and we know coast going through now. Don't want to majority to have a say so into rule. Frank they want the zoning laws in place. They won't everything in place de for voter suppression. So they can you know have they way. They can't believe they lost this election. I'm georgia piss them off to the highest. How do you turn red state blue. And how do you take our black energy and put them in office over to white. Are you kidding me. None of this race. This is race war not and also would just to wipe guys. This wouldn't have been no deal but the fact that it was a black and a jewish person beating to white people. You don't understand what they did to them because they have this sense of entitlement and it's not all white feel that way is not all americans that feel that way but it's a bunch of them and we need to stop talking about like is not that many now it seventy two million. Today's day on people. And i'm including the evangelical in that too because this group of people it's really amazing to me to call self gods people but you're willing to vote for people who have policies that's against other human basic rights while you hang onto the one right about abortion to make that joke claiming call that trump is antiabortion. That's why you're going to vote for him but she's also an tat everything else but you hang onto that one thing to justify you voted for him and you claim that as a good christian we have to uphold. That were being a christian covers a lot of things and it don't just cover abortion it purposely everything so y'all can miss me with that that group of people right there really need to check yourself. That's right steve. All right moving on now coming up at thirty four minutes after the hour. We'll have a quick round of apathy. Elo chief love officers. Steve harvey in the building. Right after this. You're listening to your harvey morning. Show the erin. Steadily team makes getting the name brand furniture electronics and appliances. You need easy and affordable. We're talking top brands. Like hp samsung ge beauty rest and so many more take them home today. Then make low monthly payments until. They're yours for good errands. Great rent deals even come with easy approvals and free delivery. That's errands the rent to own power of the aa eighteen pee wee gaskins was not. My friend is a new true crime. Podcast from iheartradio and doghouse pictures. He just chilled. Whatever he wanted to win he wanted to pee wee manipulated one unwitting accessory into hating him with this final murder. It didn't take much to find out the truth about them listening. Follow pee wee. Gaskins was not my friend on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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John & Ken Show Hour 3 (09/08)

John and Ken on Demand

29:25 min | Last month

John & Ken Show Hour 3 (09/08)

"Johnny can't show john and ken chiampou. Kfi am six forty five everywhere on the iheartradio app voice. Find his back day after tomorrow already short week. We've been messages at one. Eight seven seven six one eight seven seven six six four seven eight eight six. We're going to talk about the aztec civilization. Well that's exciting. Please don't change the channel. Well you'll see why they were the people of central mexico in the fourteenth fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. They were eventually conquered by spain. Yes quite a battle for a while and sets when spain took over the mexican territory. Anyway who's the aztecs. Where a group of people that believe in many gods gods yes god worshipping societies now supposedly john though they really went big on chocolate they supposedly the first people to discover chocolate and there was there was good sides. They might have carved human hearts out of people but you know they. They may have been cannibals too. Yeah but chocolate. That that's on their Positive side papa. Chocolate hearts The that spur. Valentine's tradition came from the california department of education. This is this is real. They passed a curriculum. That has students praying to aztec gods. This is according to a lawsuit filed this month. By the thomas more society it claims that under section called affirmation chance and energize irs. There is a chant involving five aztec deities By name and by their titles and the students have to recognize them as sources of power and knowledge and invoke their assistance. And give thanks. It's like a prayer and so this society on behalf of the parents is going to suit. Try to block the state from they. Did they sued yeah. So let's get paul. Joan on thomas more society special counsel. Paul how are you. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on the show. Explain this i. i don't understand this. I think you you some not my sentiments. Pretty well you said this is real. I mean yeah most people. I talk to say this has to be a joke right. I mean but no. He's real the the state. Board of education unanimously unanimously passed this ethnic studies model curriculum. It's eight hundred. Eighty two page document and buried in. It are various prayers to different different gods. There's the section on the asset gods and then as we were getting ready to file the complaint. We noticed there was another prayer buried in here that deals with some divine force in the aruba. Religion called ashi where they also You know pray to this. God invoke its name and and ask it for special things. So yeah we. If you look at the text i mean yes. They're they're gonna try to say. Oh these are just energizer to make kids feel good Which i'm not really sure how these can make any kids feel good but if you read the prayers they are in like you said honoring these. Dvd's praising them asking for the intercession and these are the same gods that the aztecs invoked when they were engaging in human sacrifice. So they're saying their names. I think one of the prayers they invoked the name twenty times This isn't some history lesson This is actually a prayer that apparently was drafted by public officials. This isn't some like ancient thing. This is a prayer that they drafted on. This is getting weirder because you answered the first question. I wondered if it was justice. A history course. Here's what the aztecs used to do. And here's what they said. Here's what it meant right. That would be okay. But you're saying that the department of education wrote a fake aztec prayer and the kids has to say well okay. So that's a question. We get a lot asked a lot what you do. The kids have to say it. I think think the just to start with your last question. I'm not sure if there's any process for you know a kid who doesn't wanna say it or whatever but the fact of the matter is if a this passed unanimously any school district and adopted curriculum. And make this part of the of the curriculum for for a particular class a web. Now ardor standing again. This is the case just got started but to understand that these were drafted by folks on this Part of this department This this curriculum this model ethnic studies mild curriculum. Now one of the guys. Who's the co chair. Who was the co-chair is a gentleman named toll teke cotton or. I'm not sure you pronounce his name. He wrote a book called rethinking ethnic studies and we actually bought the book. He had a section in there about how the christians who came here for presumably. The spanish like know committed suicide and killed these ancient gods and now apparently the way you to make up for. This is by chanting their name. So when you see aside. Thea side is the killing. Of god's if that is a such thing. I guess but yeah see your side and so the spanish killed the ashtec gods and so right what we're bringing back. We gotta we gotta chant their names now and we need to You know this is. They don't say this in the curriculum. This is the reason i bring. This up is because this is the guy who he's not just you know directly connected. He's the co chair of this curriculum. These are his thoughts. He's his name is all over this thing and it's clear that there isn't some you know benign purpose here. It's clear that the people who are really pushing this has some have a very. You know dark agenda. What do they want the students to do with this information. Do they want the students to participate in the chance. Oh yeah the students if they all say the chant together yeah once or every day or what is the pledge of allegiance you know. I don't know. I'm not sure how often it is but Basically if you look here and i'll i'll read you. This is i mean if you just want to get a sense of how they try to justify. Because i think parents listening want to know when they sit in their kid to school is he going to be doing this as a regular feature of school or are they just explaining this prayer once as part of an overall history list. No so what they say. This is a direct quote from chapter five of the curriculum. These can be used. These energizes to bring the class together. Bill unity around ethnic studies principles and values and to reinvigorate the class following a lesson that maybe emotionally taxing or when the student in oregon student engagement may appear to be low so the way i read that they can. The teacher can just invoke these prayers or you know you move onto these prayers anytime juice up the energy level right side okay. Let's all do the chat now. The ashtec chant. I yeah. I shouldn't be laughing but i think you're right. Yeah what are you asking for in this lawsuit. Cease-and-desist on this plan so basically it's a very narrow case. There's lots of other problems with this curriculum. I'm sure this case. Just ask the judge to determine that these that this part of the curriculum is unconstitutional. And that it should not be part of the ethnic studies modelled curriculum. So essentially we're asking for an injunction. We filed a complaint last week. We don't have it. Hasn't it's in the very early stages we don't have a judge assigned yet. We don't have a hearing date but in the next couple of weeks probably will be in court asking for a temporary restraining order. And yeah well part of this. Affirmation this prayer in it says it addresses the deities both by name and their traditional titles. It recognizes them as sources of power and knowledge in evokes their assistance and gives. Thanks to them so i mean sounds very much like a prayer and so are the kids being taught that these aztec gods are real. Well i guess that's that's probably address somewhere else in this curriculum. But i you know we've been and i we've been focused on just this narrow issue which is this is your. That is a good point. I don't know what else their teachers are going to be saying about these guys if they if the teachers are going to be asking the kids through side it and everybody recites in unison. And she's trying to bring up the energy level. It implies that if you pray to these guys you will get a surge of energy right. And i don't think we need to this another question that we frequently here. I don't think we need to prove that these teachers are trying to convert them to this religion or to prove anything to them. It just the fact that it's a prayer. I think if you can meet the constitutional test of a prayer which we think we can. You said it's not it's not even a real ashtec prayer but it's something that this this guy who's the co chair wrote himself. Well i i don't know who on the on the who that was part of that actually drafted the prayers are understanding. Is that these were drafted by public officials when this curriculum is being developed to drafting his own as tech prayer for the kids to recite. That's that's correct. Can't make this up all right. Well we'll keep his post game the last suit department of education. We appreciate you coming on. Thank you thank you very much Paul jona he's an attorney for the thomas more society. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago. The california state department of education is now been sued by the thomas. More society over the idea that students would have to recite chance comes from the aztecs. It's called the kinloch. God's in loch eck affirmation. I remember they portrayed it as just. It's just this little self affirmation thing that i like i'll do better each day kind of i couldn't find it but i remember. That was the gist of it. Okay so do you have a little aztec alter in your house now when you do this affirmation what that is is take a holter. I mean where they were. They sacrificed people where they cut out the human hearts and did the flaying of the victims as amos. Well no they they they have richly. Debra mark agreed. She laughed. no. I'm what i'm telling you what they do. Every every guys. I've gone and seen that. That was the fourteenth century. We did a lot of things that were dumb right. So that's why. I was asking when you said you were doing the affirmation. I didn't say that i was doing the affirmation. Oh i thought you wake up every day and do the affirmation. So i wondered if you had an alter the affirmation is. John is an anus. That's my affirmation. I repeated constantly. Mantra down was a bad room. Repeat after me an he kinda cute. Little squeaky voice. It's almost like a whisper okay. Ken show john and ken show. John kobylt ken chiampou. Kfi am six forty five everywhere on the iheartradio app. Don't forget we're under a flex or four o'clock to nine o'clock. Yeah did you turn up the temperature in the studio to like seventy five yet. It's thirty seven now here. Well you know if there's a blackout today that might end. gavin newsom. I don't think he could survive the blackout. You know what i mean. Trump was on newsmax. Tv last night and said that dettori a rigged election balloting makes it raked raked like sent word rigged rigged paralegal. We will not be on the air at the beginning of the show tomorrow. What it's come on. that's an audience killer two. Pm pacific time biden will address the country about cova. Said he can't he can't there's nothing to say there's nothing to say but he'll say no i know but i'm serious. There's nothing to say. there's nothing he can do. Okay we have to do. It will sound silly speech. I mean he just gave me no information there. He doesn't obviously doesn't deliver it. Well he's going to boost the need for more. Vaccinations come on jeffrey. Dow is man. typically i mean. There's no news there every day. Somebody says that we were just talking about The aspects of aztec chant in the schools. Yeah maybe think of something because the time period then is what my saying thirteenth fourteenth centuries a little before that you know to me the world is really nuts when it comes to beliefs religious beliefs. Yes i was just reading up remarked about the crusades holy mackerel that was bloody the crusades. Oh yeah that was the christians. A series of religious wars between christians and muslims started primarily to secure control of holy sites considered sacred by both groups. So there you go eight major crusade. Expeditions occurred between ten ninety six and twelve. Ninety-one bloody violent ruthless baby people's hearts for grabbed. Two i i don't know i look in this up like under history websites and they think me here. We are today with the taliban which basically come out which is really just. That's their islam. Right is their religion. They think twenty thousand people were sacrificed a year in the aztec empire and special occasions demanded more blood like when they built a new temple. Dedicated it a for one temple. They they Sacrificed eighty thousand people and they would spill blood on the temple altars. I just people's strict adherence to their religious beliefs which in cruder times often lead to violence like you said sacrifices the crusades chopping off heads. They'd slice open the chess victims and offer. They're still beating arch to the gods as is that in the prayer that the kids are going to be a chanting. Be still my beating. Heart be still. You're being we take species. Yeah it's really exit bags for everyone. We got more coming up. Google that the other day and that selling them anywhere john and ken show john and ken show john and ken chiampou. Kfi am six. Forty live everywhere. The iheartradio app. Oh we're going to the torch. Guests go recall gas. The la county district attorney has been sued by one of his own prosecutors and that prosecutors coming on the show john had tommy. You may have heard the name. He's been involved in some very important high profile cases including the death of gabriel fernandez at the hands of his mother and her live in boyfriend ajan. Khatami of course is one of many assistant. Da's who have fought. George gaskins policy changes which to put it mildly go soft on criminals even murderers hard to believe the world is upside down as steve cooley. The former la county da said once on our show. It's hard to believe what this man has done to. Absolutely derail the la county criminal justice system. John had tommy's lawsuit is over retaliation and even racism. And you'll hear why he says that the quote that he's using to support that allegation we talked to john right have to go to recall george. Gas cone dot com. You can download the petition and sign it and mail it in and they need money polling says that gascoyne would be removed if we can get a vote but to get a vote we need signatures gathered to get signatures gathered. They need money to hire the signature gatherers so they really need money. This is serious here. It's only a couple of months left last year. One of the big utilities southern california gas company sued the state energy commission now. Why would they do that. So cal gas of course is owned by simple energy out of san diego. It took in four and a half billion dollars in operating revenue last year. Well it's because california itself among the country's if not the world's leaders on climate change and it now is involved in a war on gas. Eventually they would like us to phase out the use of natural gas described as a planet warming fossil. That will never happen. Used for heating cooking and power generation at based on the technology. We have now. It is impossible for that to occur. So i i don't know why this has to be said every day what. They claim what they want today. They have a flex alert because they're running low on energy and the only thing that'll probably save us is. They bought five new natural gas plants. They're putting some back online putting a five open some five more to give us more power because the wind in the solar not making enough power so this is a load of crap so natural. Gas is not cold however to the strict climate change crowd. It is still gotta go in fact up in berkeley. They were banning natural gas in new homes. They also got sued. Because you had forgotten about the restaurant people they say it's very important to have natural gas for best cooking practices. Oh you know what you just gotta get your the meat and the vegetables and i remember when i was a kid. My mother was very angry. She didn't like our electric stove. Goes guess just cooks better at does. I don't like electric stoves. We've had both gas. Does cook better cooks much. Much more evenly in easily You know what if you run a restaurant berkeley. You deserve what you get. You gotta get out of the city like that. Those people are crazy. You're talking about crazy before this is crazy. This is insanity. They're not going to switch to all the gas all the solar and wind they claim it's impossible and if the more they switched to wind and solar more blackouts. We'll have and they're violating their own. Eat it because like i said they. They're firing up five. New natural gas plants to summer made a recent decision to push all electric building statewide well. They stopped short of banning gas in new construction but they approve rules that require developers include wiring that allows for later installation of electric heat pumps and cook tops. It doesn't matter california. Does we're too small to have any effect on the globe and the climate. It's impossible this this. These are financial payoffs for the industries. That are involved in this racket. That's it's gonna make no i. It's not gonna make a degrees worth of difference or a tenth of a degrees worth of difference. It doesn't matter if we all shot ourselves in the head and committed mass suicide. California is too small to small a place on the globe for it to matter and they know this they know this. So this is just the their harassment of a bunch of crazed climate fascists. They reached some kind of settlement with the california energy commission. But it's not clear what it is so cal gas just dropped its lawsuit and it says the story. They agreed to settle but there are no details. I don't know what the details would be. The claim was that the state was flouting their own law which requires them to consider the benefits of natural gas. So i mean basically socal gas is fighting for its life here because at the state booze out of the natural gas business the company will be defunct. That's a light here. That's why they're fighting this. I mean it self preservation as much as it saying what john said. We're going to need natural gas because electricity cut it came replace. It's that's ridiculous that the state these government officials knew some are trying to convince people that very quickly very easily. We're going to switch to all wind and solar that is technologically not only power the homes but the cars to they want to drive electric car. It's not that it's impossible. I i don't understand this. This is like this is a fantasy religion and they know it's impossible does. This is a pretty interesting battle to see play out because they're both you know under the guise of state regulation. They've got to figure this out here. He will be going to try to move away from natural gas. And if you're going to do that how you gonna keep state running. Natural gas is cheap. it's plentiful and it is much lower greenhouse gas emissions than than coal. So it is a great source of energy. We have plenty of it. There's digest we're not going to run out of natural gas in our lifetimes side going to happen when well beyond that so you use it. It's there what's the point of not using it to keep it underground. What's the benefit of that. I never understood this. Oh you know we're gonna use up all the oil well. What benefits to keep it underground if it's there and it works use it. There isn't a replacement right now. As long as it's cheaper and more efficient at we're going to stay that way. If if you switch to solar and wind that's gonna result and it already has extraordinarily high electricity bills power bills and that hurts the middle class and the poor dramatically. It's a bad policy. It costs families a lot of money that they don't have to pay that nobody else is paying and the rest of the country are bills are sixty percent higher than the rest of the country on average sixty percent higher. But what are we getting out of this. We're not affecting the climate. Well we're not affecting the climate. Why do it in fact this is another thing. Nobody ever asks all the all the idiots and the media. Why don't you ask all these officials. What how much cooler is the earth because california does so much solar and wind. How much cooler give us like precise measurement. Here they can't because it's had no effect and that's the truth that we used to us. We were like one tenth of one percent or even less than that of the world's emissions. Or well i mean there's what there's eight billion people in the world. Almost now. i mean wh what's what's what's Eight billion eight hundred million would be ten percent. Eighty million would be one percent. We're forty million. We're one half of one percent of the earth's population. We got more coming up. John and ken. Kfi john and ken show john kovalev. Ken chiampou kfi am six. Forty live everywhere. On the iheartradio app giddy vice president comal hours came to the bay area to campaign for some they were together. Charged up somebody to play in the five o'clock hour. I will be at the george gas. Going recall desk a lawsuit by one of his own. Prosecutors named familiar to john and ken show listeners. John tommy. la county assistant. Da will join us after five o'clock to explain. The basis of this lawsuit against his own is shown. Da's office speaking of kamala harris last year. She promoted something. Called the minnesota freedom fund the minnesota freedom fund was to help post bail for people in minnesota who apparently were too poor to afford it she. She promoted it because it was the protesters with the heat which trying be really cool and she wanted a virtue signal well. Minneapolis based tv station reported. The fun had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to free an alleged knife murderer and a convicted rapist who are facing charges of sex assault and kidnapping among others but the story. That's making the news this week. Is that the minnesota. Freedom fund bailed out a guy who was accused in a domestic assault case. They got him bailed out and not long after he was driving around. He got into a road rage incident with another motorist and shot the other guy to death. He had been out on eleven thousand five hundred dollars. Bail in connection with the domestic assault case since august. Sixth on august twenty ninth. He's charged with two counts of second degree murder by shooting another motorists who've gotten to some sort of argument with this is what happens when you decide blank blank. Everybody deserves bail. Everybody should be free to have their court appearance. It's just rich people who get away with this. This is this is going to happen over and over. It's apparent a guy with a temper problem. Yeah i need a sycophants in the california media to ask camel harris today. It's inset was Some of her money she sent some of your money to this dale fund to this group. Well she said she was doing it last year to help the protesters but but it's all the same money fun. It's all the same pot of money right. So so this is what happens when you bail out bad guys. They went around the worse things we got to murder in sacramento this week over a bailed out Felon now we've got this murder here. He was in no bail. Felon didn't even bother with him. California i mean we keep voting against these policies but apparently they still exist now because apparently one of the high court to the state ruled that it's up to a judge so when camera harris was district attorney and later attorney general. Did she ever promote this kind. Of nonsense. the cheap promote the idea of bailing out or no bailing a criminal so that he could go out and murder. Somebody a short time later i mean it was. This is what she believed when she was a prosecutor. The did she think felons ought to be released so they could go kill other people the answer from these groups to the minnesota freedom fund put out a statement basically saying we're aware of the tragic shooting but we believe every has been arrested by law enforcement is innocent until proven guilty and if a judge says they're eligible for bail. They should not have to wait jail. Let's that's an insane point of view. Also anybody track where all the money goes that is being contributed to this group. What are the salaries of the people who run this group of the minnesota freedom fund. Yeah i'm sure it all goes to bail out worthy. I'm sure it does offense. I'm sure i mean how many. Why would you imply anybody's receiving high. Say the woman up into panga got that big mansion of the from black lives matter. Yeah oh you like that story. Oh yeah i do. Because that's what the national woman. Yeah it's like it's like the homeless racket right all these people who claim to want to help the homeless people and they had their big salaries and there Fake nonprofits did like people. Don't get that percentage of these groups are making lots of money off these donations. It's pretty obvious. But that's the purpose for some of these people. We don't know exactly how many when we come back. The george guests gone recall. Desk will roll out. We have another opportunity to talk to deputy. Da john tommy who's been fighting the policies of his boss ever since gas took office last december. John tommy now has filed a lawsuit. Alleging retaliation race discrimination defamation and intentional infliction of emotional distress. It'll tell you the story when we come back. John and ken show debra mark has news.

thomas more society la county ken chiampou john ken spain department of education Paul jona california state department of Debra mark california department of educa John kobylt ken chiampou dettori gabriel fernandez George gaskins aruba Thea gascoyne Board of education minnesota freedom fund
All About That Bass | Dean Mark

The Lemar Show

1:34:48 hr | 7 months ago

All About That Bass | Dean Mark

"Hello my good friends. Welcome to another episode of the lamar show. Thanks for joining today. I'm speaking to a musician. It's all about the base. I've been fortunate enough to have him play my band for number of years. Now he's also played for Boy george for craig david for roy as and many many many others once again a wealth of knowledge for anyone trying to get into the music industry or if you just a bit nosey and you want to know what it takes to get into the music industry just because today's guest his dean martin here in the in indian. Hey do you have a name for this. I'm surrounded by musical instruments. Yeah he's just sitting by a wool of bass. Guitar award is the high behind me. Literally of one two three four. I mean did and then there's basically bass guitars over there. There's drums there's no sign of the chimes chimes tambourines. Go yeah tambourines. Oh my door is loving has greens and they come in. They just wanna touch everything you'll get you'll let the doors run free hall so goes i mean you know when i was growing things that good like that venus. I mean if if my dad had a studio. When i was growing up. Oh my so. I you know whenever they want to come in i let them in and let them play around and you know what i mean because they might be just that one little thing that nothing. Oh man yeah. Yeah yeah music. And then the journey begins and that's it genitive in. So i don't i don't force them. You know. listen to this with them at their own pace of find time. Just generally means yeah. Yeah i'm not sure whether you saying another good light that means they could lead that or they know the look you've trained them from lung. Maybe i shouldn't pull out this this this and that is giving me that they go to off enough more boys like to find out. How does this work. Well i have to take apart. Yeah that was me. I was definitely lightning. Yes oh this really nice. You're inside that. I've had it for twenty five years and you've been around for two minutes anyway right so man. Where do we start where you start. You've had a very long journey as well. Yeah is where did what is. Your is your earliest memory of you. Know you said your kids come in you. Just let them roam around and hopefully something. Sp- gives them that spoke. What is your earliest memory of. When you had a spark your is loud like wow. This is funny. Shiseido will my earliest memory of that kind of thing is actually my first ever memory on our. I was asked about two years. Old and Are one of my elder brother was at school and the everyone was a nursery hit. Wherever and i had to stay with my mom i remember. She was doing something she was like. Okay look i need to just sit you down here just for a minute can just sit here for a minute. And i'll be with you very shortly on what she did. We have one of those early record players. You know the one with the army lifted the arbiter repeat so she put on this little four forty five seventy records and she put one of that one that one. It was the recco shala by al green and in the try. Remember this this. I think the name of the instrument is called the guerra. Because i was just transfixed by saying that sound ought you'd be looking at the speaker just having these and then it will go round at on would meet recruit just repeat and she had to do with a good record. The alight and i would just say this year just just transfixed by the music and that was it. Music was always the thing that could just get me to concentrate to zone out. Yeah yeah and that was. That is funny. How You said the reverend al green moves on the trunk. And what attracted you was the at guerra in amongst the so to socially south of one of the greatest soul legends at the base guitar. Everything else guide on. He heard that guo burn about it. Have you have you heard on any of a kind of so full record or anything like that. No just totally you need. Have they got a locust that you know you out. That's cool that's cool so all right so you know. I know you as a talented musician. Ban predominantly oversee on. The base has always been estimate of choice. No i actually started on guitar when i was about nine or ten nine. So you play. Yes so what happened. Was i have an auntie of mine. Who's not too much older than the the myself but Probably about six or seven years older than me and she had to guitar but didn't really play it on whatever a my grandmother said cindy guitar over to the wall the grandkids or whatever. You don't media. She said senate guitar over to dean. What did she know that you have no idea why out because there was i mean grandchildren. So there wasn't plenty to choose from the specifically she sits and today so she sent the youngest. no it wasn't the youngest to genucel. yes so Yes they sentence guitar. It was it was like what kind of country cutter acoustic guitars. It was it was beautiful. But i had it for a while and i didn't know what to do and my dad. Who's like you know. He's the work nights on the buses. Left boy you need to stop letting you know. So i couldn't even get to play it and then one day A teacher at my primary schools. Like i'm doing guitar lessons on guitar guitar guitar so i went and i just said right. I wanted to guitar lessons. Said all right. It's going to be all next week. Wednesday or whatever. It was so i went down. She changed it up for me zone a up and then she showed me. You know just like a series of chords and let my i corps it was like wow okay and i. I just kind of stuck with it for a few years so few years. That's just regular. That's good yeah. You know your constant. Yeah just trying to jingle jangle away on on whatever by dropped it for for about five years or so Any reason because i was a young teenager. I got into acting or go into a lot of acting. You call were different concert as young teenager. School stuff i was. I loved drama school and one of my teachers school in secondary school at that point kind of really now is the was quite you know excelling and she took me and i joined different youth citizens and stuff like that and even ended up in the national youth theatre and that. Yeah but confident kid. I wouldn't call myself confident. I just knew the Sometimes when you see someone do something you can do that. You're right on our can do it better. I just had that thing me. It wasn't confidence. He just thought. I could do mean so also is doing the acting thing and this is we're talking like mid late eighties now. Prince came along. It's an is and man. I don't know if you remember that time. It was like a you either one of two camps. Either in the michael michael for the prince camp. I was kind of nice. The right in the middle say to slightly leaning towards prince because he played. Because i used to love. Let the my my brother bill. Quite a few. You know the the prince albums and those days when they were on record and you would you open them up and you'd read the credits and it just said all instruments played by prints and stuff like that crazy with guitar that gets on this. Go go back into that. You know and yet but you know prince just just really reignited. My my my my passion for music. What what did you think. It was specifically apart from obviously played everything. What did he find. Was it just purely the musicality of it. Or what was it something about him or a particular song that you heard or something that made you think. Well this is one is is because yeah the fact that he played everything but he just made. It looks so cool. He wasn't a nerdy wasn't he was the you know the michael jackson the coolest guy. He just made it look so cool. He didn't just play guitar music. Cable a munster and listening to the records you can hear you know in the first couple of albums. He was a mean drama. How these are just incredible. So you know. It's cool to play an instrument this to try and stick with it and learn and that just got me you just totally got me the yeah. You can learn an instrument and be seriously cool. Was that time that you thought you know. I actually want to be on stage doing this or was it. Will you just thinking you know. I just want to get better paying this. Because he's doing it. Like what time did you at. What point do you think actually want to do this. Like not nine to five hundred this year will it vat period lawsuit for quite a few years. 'cause i you know. I continued with the acting in the theater. And stuff like that and They didn't drop it and run away. Yeah and at that time in london there were a lot of Jam sessions and stuff. You know one point thinking like the mid nineties. There was a jam like an open jam session that you could go to young musician almost every day of the week every day. Yes whichever part of london wherever it was somewhere over in Westland ladbroke grove area or there was something in camden town area. Do mean if you knew all the spots. They were literally software. You could go to almost every day to be back then and you can shop any hang out and say yeah can i. Can i get up and play number. Do you know what i mean. I know that you up. Genital mean so that for me was was just incredible in and i and i kept going to. At that point. I was just still mainly doing theatre. It's the how old are you there. All twenty to twenty one twenty two. Yes hold on so teenage then the guitar. When did that start. You wanna talk about nine or ten bay. Started when i was about nine thousand nine hundred twenty or something like that because then you basically it was more acting in theater and yeah just give me. He's gonna side arise on nineteen twenty. Yeah we saw it in the base more. so yeah because what happened was A friend of mine had a base that he just wanted to get rid of. And pseudo i'm sending the base of free. Yeah okay so far we pick it up for your kid because everybody who has discarded something gave it to date ended up on stage took everything. Wow friday all you took it away as you said. Oh i got this little base and now you know again what i would do You know my brother would by that point. My brother's older brother desmond ball love love records. I kind of listen to a lot of the stuff that he he'd bought and whatever and the lamp and plug my base. And just listen to whatever you know playing on record play along and i just found that it even fell even with the base right right. It's all about one okay. Do you think that was you naturally sit in better with the record with the base versus the guitar as in you here. Oh i'm tired of this all was just just and and then I kind of like a long lost cousin of mine at that point and he was putting together like a little band and So i was like oh. I play guitar news. Okay cool and he was like version of prince because he keyboards guitar. But he's his main instrument was drums. Okay and was he's cool. Oh he was very cool. Mash malcolm feely smell pedophilia. Yes yes shouting credible incredible musician and yeah so there was a qatari. It's that was around at that point and he was incredible. I mean the guy could shreds Yeah i was like company. Say ish macos look man. Why don't you just play the bass. I'm not well. I have one compare a little bit and he just. He grabbed the basement me and he showed me a few little things on the base. I was like okay. He's okay now you try that. He's all right. Let's see cool one to free and Yeah he was just like mountain mission. Wanted to create this little group. And i felt wow okay now. I'm actually playing some bass with a drummer. Yeah yeah which is different supplier another room. That'd be good around the rooms though. And i'm playing now with someone on drums and that changed. Everything took the love to another level. Your chainsaw everything so you just like rehearse in in your house. His house bedroom is his mom. I couldn't believe it because she didn't play drums to wherever hours. I'm not. I was gonna say you can drums or digital not. I'm talking line nine hundred ninety nine. So yes we're looking. These are noisy drums. Yes these allowed lost drums and lived on the. I remember it was a member. There was like a railway line very close and they lied on end so there was a certain amount knowing that they could just make me by it so he was able to play drums to wherever. Wow i love where i wanna say. It's a failing. But as a parent. I guess now. Nowadays parents are much. Why i hope most parents are much more open minded than than kind of we've real grownup when a parent sees sparking their kid. Yes sometimes this is step back and let them explore. Yeah the when. I was growing up. What you're trying to destroy. Try try the jobs. I was never going to be a job in my house. Oh go up on the south side of the only time that you can make if i was singing and You know if it was a cigarette that you know might keep quiet just listening to let go too late for a little bit. You know 'cause it's not too intrusive but no apa no drums even enough jobs. I remember i i remember. I wanted to play drums. If that can have a junkie or or no no no no no no. No no no no bugging upstairs i have to because he you know he was a bus driver at night shifts instead. He's like where. I have to sleep to me says. Nah so that was the end of that war on. No you're not going to happen magazine on drums dean on something quite something that has headphones like it. It'd be on basic your your your love to another level playing. Sing with with ishmael. Yeah yeah right. So did anything come. The ban like did you. Just you just go and try to keith. So ever and we did. A couple of gigs like there was like a local music. Venue stroke pub kind of more. You know More of music venue and he. He managed to get a couple of gigs there and stuff germany so it was my first experience playing live you know and then january of ninety free. Wow he even the yeast. This was when my life changed. Okay friend of mine said oh. So you know roy is right. I'm not quite love is love is records at home. I had you know probably about fifteen or twenty albums of his that time. I'll and He's he's coming up is is going to be ro Is going to be at ronnie scott's now back in those days right if you ever saw an artist when scott's they be on the bill for like a week so you play day two saturday you'll do like two sets like The first set will probably start hats. Nine o'clock ten o'clock remember and then the next that will start something like midnight or did you know so most artists. It's almost like a west end like yes yeah residency. Yeah so each artists would would feature for about a week. Roy when sets so we're our also our a minimum a minimum than an hour set. But roy used to play three weeks at a time and all of the sets were pretty much. Sold out to the i remember. I went to see In the first week of that little stint and my mind would loan to smithereens it had a litter was gone of a wash room musical mushroom cloud in my brain. It was just pay just gone. Oh and i just my friend ongoing next week. And you're coming with me and i'm going to pay for you to come with me mad. And then the next week off the just and he had this. I i'd never heard base like this. In my life. The base of what sound system they had in their at the time but the base the sound quality of it was like he just gave me this. Big hug jovi reach warm. He had this bass player called donald knicks. Yeah and it was the first time i'd seen a guy play five. String bass another main. Okay so he was going down to something diesel. No janata mean on. i four. why this is eight. Is i want to do that. Was that guy who donald knicks mix changed my life. Man here in the donald. Nixon is be string changed my life when i heard those low notes on those roy is on his mind here. Eight just blew. my mind. Couldn't believe what i was hearing while and not just for. Wow this is. This is what i wanna do these long. We've in a week. I had a five string bass every car. Say telling you straight straight but you remember denmark. street yeah. I was down the right down window shopping ways strings. This homeowner fi string active bates. Oh yeah and you're practice. Oh my gosh yeah. I was buying lots of records and stuff like that and just educating myself you. It's nice though in like one again. One person's journey inspires the. I'd like to the extent you know because you can pay in front of anyone you know and some people get thrill for some people get inspired by you know and then it changes the echoes. What makes them feel well. This is doable or this is believable. Or i need to try something. You know that that that part of live music and inspiring the next generation so to speak the next person is Is really important. You know even today. When i think about it just blows my mind. So that was like january of ninety three and we've in six to seven years. Yeah he was me at ronnie scott's. Oh christ we've roy is. Oh full circle. Because i don't know it was. It was weird thing. How you know the kind of stars aligned. Really so at that time he had a saxophone player dark array gaskins and ray. He's the tour with an artist. Cool finished high monitor be tunes by norman connors and those guys and yeah he'd he joined warriors as ben and this guy was on my fierce alto saxophone. This guy was a monster be took about. It's like a musical athlete was just hang on that man. This guy was crazy when you you hear or see a musician and just the amount of intensity that they have as a musician or vocal is almost scary. Yeah you see some scary. It was to that degree. Laying was found only scary. It was just so intense. Wow he can do anything. Mean this guy was all about that sacks yes yes In the lower part of nine hundred ninety five home and get a phone call. Hi my name's ray gaskins. Your numbers recommended to me I'm i'm looking for a bass player. And i'm like i know exactly who you are. Is this a joke is no no no. I couldn't believe it. so like what. So he was. He was in town and he gave me. It's again he was. He was doing his own stuff and a friend of mine. Komo gilmore from the state on a drummer from the states. who had done some bits and pieces. We've recommended me to to gaskins. And he's like yeah. I gotta show in a couple of weeks it's going to be me's to be jocelyn brown kim zell and Big big big straight in on an issue. Okay all right so so pot because some recommended you know like what had you been doing. In that time you know feel bits and pieces. I think. I told don my first tour. That point i did i did boy. George a told me. I was twenty three my i saw. We told brazil dodo. Slow down everywhere exactly. So how did you get on the bourgeoisie. Because again you know someone listening thinking. Oh yeah you know i. I've listened to dana. I've seen him do this. And i'd love to get one gig somehow get because as i said that time you could was all the jam sessions that you could go to literally every day of the week and There was one to do. It was like on a thursday night just by Great portland street. Yep and whether students bar coughing. Yeah was downstairs in there. And apparently one week boy george's md was just there and he was just hanging out and stuff like that and that was that what happened was georgia's base play. A fell ill. So john after learning the The bass player couldn't couldn't do it had to find a replacement and he said oh. Who's that guy that was done at that jam and he phoned up You know the guy who running jameson yet. A baseball young guy You know playing bass who was that. And he he got my. They managed to get my number north and then one day. Just this call. It was from georgia. Toll manages his. Hi i'm told manager for boy george. And we've got a toll happening in brazil and We'd like you to come and join us in brazil on the tour. I said what you want me. That it's not even an audition. No no no we. We want you and the reason. They didn't want to audition because they already knew. Because the nd or already seen me. I want that guy that means you could put in the world. I still didn't know anything over him. I didn't know that i was seen or anything like that. So you even. When he saw me he didn't even come up to me. Say anything wien. I just got this. i'll just call saying. Can you come out in june to brazil Play bass with boy george brazil. I will ever downstairs. Oh and i said mom. I'm going to brazil arafat. It wasn't mum i'm playboy. Brazil was by some new underwear. You know what to get cool across the subject. Wow but yeah so you. They sent me the material and stuff like that must have been a confidence as well. It was a confidence boost but it was still twenty free. You know it'd be playing for a few years but But it was nice knowing the the i must have been doing the right thing of definitely on the right track. Yeah did you. did you ask the md. eventually how How did and he was like. Oh so you The jam session on great portland street. Okay or john. Theme is yeah and I'm pretty sure i have a couple of times. Don't have yeah you know. I'm pretty sure jumping. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. I'm so grateful for him just Seeing this young kid and giving me a break. Do you know what i mean. Yeah and So that's how you got into. Actually being i mean you'd been paying in bonds kind of because you've been doing those sessions. Yeah yeah but actually officially on saw with someone who's writing the spotlight. That was your mom you can you. I mean listening to those songs like really knows a kid. Yeah i was thinking about ten or eleven you know when his songs came out and then you know ten twelve years later. You're in the same rehearsal room plan though song yet. We've that guy that gold record his mad. That's how i that's how it was to me You know when. I sang with lionel ritchie for the first time. I think it was all them. I remember watching watching the videos and everything and this dude is saying. Well crafted and i'm coming out saying his saga with him and he's they give me all the praise like oh my god. It was a very real real mobile very slow. Whoa like how good you think. You are When you've got some of respect and you listen to grind up saying this dude is good and you wanna say. This is really strange mobile for that. Yeah if engineering like you know you get to the point where you where you accept While you are what you've done. And how much he learns. Yeah but there's that crossover moment of going from the dude who has is in the room and wants to be hold them on the stage. I bet on this right now. So i can make the most of it otherwise you know you can. You can't basically continue succeeding with the mentality of the dude in the room. Yeah you need to say no. I belong here. Yes yes and now i'm gonna play and show my flavor into it. You know that that she have actually met line. Look a couple of times a nice nice. Yeah you remember. The hotel room came down one time. Okay and he just turned up. Nice oh i m man and he came up sometimes when you know some of those american guys wanna sit back. Chill came up and he sang game. I think we did like free thousand eight and we did all night long. Oh my heart and soul all lions over there. I'm playing my awesome. You know what i'm saying. You know the thing. I think as well like that culture of i think definitely i've i Missing and probably would appreciate it differently and even more now of just musical community. Yes you know not different camps in over there and then and then just for real you want to hear something you jump on and inspire the next dude in the you know. I was there on that night you know. I think those special moments are even more more needed now because everything is so instant and everything is so you know if you go to a constant everyone's got their phone out and you kind of before you go on to the next day. Everyone kind of knows what the gig is ready. Because they've seen it one hundred times on youtube right whereas matt moment the unsheduled panel and whoa that person in the room and whoever's in the story and that story is just a story you know he was down on that night i don't know if he was down there we'll tell him visa slightly So i used to do you know for the for those did not know there was. There was a night in london in piccadilly. There was a club on record ten room. Yeah the host was patrick allen young. Who lives here and basically was on a monday night. Yeah and you think that's a night where people go out. People grab cutting basically when when acts were on tour. Mondays pretty much will be the day off. The main and people want to come out. I remember there was one particular. Monday night The guys that were jennifer lopez band okay. Jennifer lopez was on tour yet and the guys from her bands came to hang out at the ten room and So now you gotta let them play man you know some of them play and of the there was a bass player there you great and he was playing and as he was playing they did one song. I don't really. I don't want to pay the next june. And he's like paying. Just stay there on the base. But then shook her con up as i'm give me that base back like give me that base back right now. He loved his head of you. Go there was no way. That were on my cv. I was going to miss play. Shaq shaq a con me not playing. Oh hair no i to get that beta remember what yes like a little wing jimi hendrix but man off towards a bit. She tore this filter. Is i remember this note. I know you're holding the microphone to your mouth at the single normally. Hold them and she hit his heino and she pulled the mike back like down to watch hip by she pulled the mic down towards that fob and still on no going through to micro note with clear and go oh mike power shia an otter relentless power. That woman has given about the vocal ability of six voices into what voice. You know what i mean. And she was just great afterwards. Had doubts where You can play them as you'll check a car those those nights those nights with they need to do more to stop the walk right now. Have you stopped. I mean like doing a place on trump street called the pizza pomodoro. Chiro pizza pomodoro. That's yeah yeah downstairs. The last time. I went down there last time but one of the laws recent times. Oh it down there. I could say oh man you just missed man who janet was. Just here. I love the way you still got to say. Passionate though the save passion for the live ten healing the live vibe really gets into your dna your but Yeah but you know with the boy george thing or whatever that gave birth to that whole you know me being seen are then being brought onto that so we we kind of the houses. Yeah i'd say yes. So when i was called by ray gaskins to to play with him Who was the saxophone player for. Roy is at that point. I had done my my tall with boy. George confidence is that the company was there. And i think the fact that i was recommended by this particular person. Kind of just he just out of of things you know the main yet life if he says this is the guy then. that's cool. Yeah you know what i mean. I can trust him and and it was literally my first gig was playing with with ray and his first cousin is jocelyn brown. And and kim zell jenner the main so learn all this material. I don't have to learn. i think. I probably at about ten days or two weeks or something like that. Yeah and So this is before. The internet is the nine hundred ninety five or so lucky. A mobile for a brick. I didn't have my phone. I just got my mobile phone by then but Yes i to me up with him and he gave the cds are for right. I shut myself away. Learn those pieces man learners species go see in him. Play with roy is kinda knew. His vibe genera mean knew he would kind of like. Yeah so i was already kind of much influenced by donald nixon. He toward with. And with roy and stuff so so kind of knew the kind of feel. I should come with yet and we did. The gig was knows as hell but through my theater and acting training i was able to focus my nervous energy. And you just knuckle down and nail the gig review and So i played the gig and he he went man gig yours as long as you want it to mean and winger and fru that that gave you know years you know we had years together. Yeah loads don you just call me up. Hey dino man You know we talk and he said yeah you know going to be doing this thing with roy. What am i say. You know what i know roy stuff and this is me you know like when you see like a act these tiny light of opportunity because you know at this point to artists for me in the world that will like my idols. Prince william and. Roy ayers i i mean i collected so many of his records to the point where there was one piece of vinyl i bought and this is back in nineteen realism. I paid fifty pounds for this particular record. You know the head. Because i it was. It was hard to get. But it was a rare piece. And i had to have. It doesn't mean that much of a fan so this particular situation came along and i. It's ray. I know a lot of roy stuff. He doesn't necessarily have to bring all these banners. Because i if he if he ever kobe for Cover it. i know. I could do it and he went. That sounds a limit. quebec saving hotels and He twenty minutes later. Human roy loved the idea is he was like right. These are the tunes of we. Had one little rehearsal. Do not mean where we now. I think we we had on premises or something like that. She doesn't mean before way came over and then and then you know it was You know set up at ronnie's and and just go over stuff. Roy was never really one for you know really rehearsing he just wants to do. You know if during the gigi something wrong about button off from that if the right people recommend you then. It's going be stunned. I can trust you. Don't mean yeah and it's as simple as that and man. I just couldn't believe it. I was there at ronnie scott's with roy is because i saw that little crackle both shooter i just had to put it out there and he came back religion under main. Seize the moment isn't it. Yeah did you have that picture. Sophomore stage. I was inspired by this. Now i there's an roy is me i'm doing my thing and i'm holding my own. Yeah i mean that that moment lasted for at least two years and it was so funny because i think it was one of the last One of those last free week stints that we did. At ronnie's i think for about two years. Didn't we let roy note was a an actual real fan via yeah and I brought this bag in on the last night of of the loafing so you know like the thirty six. That's or something and I said roy man you got to do something for me. Otherwise on the plane. I'm applying talking about an i. Am i pulled out this bag and had about forty vinyl records all royal albums. Oh who does this belong to the mine is a you sign them and he. He was just like away. Forty of oracle's and that's just the vinyl vida see leading to that. I just put in just the vinyl and was he would have been there all day. And my god you got this you know. You can't find a hundred bucks. I'll say this. All just decided. But i remember him Plague thirty round at one point in the night you know. I just looked around like damn because he was he was so touch. Yeh that's nice and Yeah he was so great. So we've mattia is so great to what we've you know like when they say never meet your idols terms of roy. That was wrong is like no i light is the he really truly portrayed who he is on his records. You know. there's a lotta stuff. Sauntered even talks on his records yeah. That was an eat. Exactly exactly that. You're the royalist music. The he is on the record like poo poo. Lawler yes what he's like. He's like that you know he's a funny man. I mean and we had some some great moments on the road and Yeah i will cherish cherish those you know and I'm just a very blessed. I managed to get him know on the stuff that i'm working on now. I covered one of his songs and a managed to get him to hear it and he was like. Oh my god. Changed the groove. And yeah i mean so Yana managed to get him to play real vibes on my version of of his song at a man. I mean that was that that one day in particular was it was it was crazy day because imagine get roy to hear the track and He was over playing the jazz cafe so it was like december or something and they will playing free nights. I was speaking to his md. And who's this. Keep the middle day free but come on the first night and speak to roy and basically unites kind of buttery. Maputo bay like you know so I had a studio. I went down and spoke to roy. World's comb mound number. We'll plan we'll do it tomorrow. We'll do it tomorrow. I'ma coup so I had a studio booked. I had the real vibes a friend of mine. low me. he's actual real. Is you know. I mean so. All these things was prepared. Perhaps right so as not the date is derived rights. Gonna get down to london south the vibes. Go get roy and do this thing. And i'm driving down. The moats away with the vibes in the back of the car and a phone call from a friend. Who's a studio is a dean. There's been a mix up yet there's a band in the studio right now We're gonna have to report. What will you mean. In the reason we booking are impossible day office closet. Get me some big winning. Then i've got the five pack. I'm driving now man and he said to me. Okay let me see what can so la'mical you back. Let me call you back. So he's ski coming down keepdriving some driving cooled back and he calls me says right. You know basically. Rick james year was. He says he's studio in camden camden roy. Staying right now. Oh even better because you know he was bringing the jazz cafe even yes so as i so okay. I'll go there. He said yeah. Don't worry rigs cool. He will open up the session. You you guys can up. India thing and i thought wow okay so i set up went down to rick studio up there and Smoothly well it was funny. So our to cool roy to say right. I'm here or whatever a red woken up league. So i kind of had to rebe remote. You know we're all right. Listen i'll be down in the lobby in about ten minutes. I'll i'll i'll be down to worry. I picked him up. Took him to the studio and then He's okay okay. Oh these are the vibes. So he picked up mallets and he's he's warming up you know on the vibes and Rick just press play on the track so ahead this track man and in the here roy. Playing yeah real vibes on pretty much. The shows i did to him. He's got this electronic vibes as it easy for him to move with them. And and you can crank it up and enemy s you know so easy for the live situation but by the point of only thing apart from this one show that we did at the royal festival hall. I'd never really heard him play real real real vibes while standing next to him in the room. Yeah and at that moment. When i play the real vibes and hearing the playback of the track the An my breathing the thing. I don't realize i realizing the i. I'm breaking down in tears. Cry out. it looked like decision was even going to happen. I just became so emotional. My hero my idol roy thing. That's let's just say oh. Yeah fantastic moment. So that's crazy. That's a really nice story. Yeah yeah oh yeah. And he didn't take done. I'm not being funny the amount of time that you're saying that he's before we like twice a day for free for years on end. You can't just go and go home after that. Then bill seeming engine. I remember we did three days and it was consecutively. We did like the first day. Paris the second day in tunisia. And then the third day we were out in wales. Wow and he was in his seventies at that point and he handled it lighten. I was muschamp. He handled it. I feel like he was like. Yeah whatever you're prob- you're probably guy. Now try satellite. you know. you don't really know. i will easy day. Saying he was back in the day free. Like how did i feel mash went to date. You don't know about it cover. that's good. that's good yeah Did y'all stint with boy. George lead to any other things like those obviously played me. I mean there's that's not only notch on your journey so you don boy george you. Obviously since i wouldn't say i wouldn't say no one but don't necessarily yes but the thing it did do a solidified within the whole musical community. Solidified my Name my name. Academy dean is yeah he can lead the is a bass player. I mean he is a proposition guy and off doing not particularly tall. I was taken seriously because the minute you say. Yeah i did you know it does he. You're taking series. His name is going to be associated with their signed especially on base. Because that is one of those instruments the drive the music out bass and drums right. If if those two a bad on a live gig you know about everybody's because the whole group is gone. No one's really. You know it needs to be tired. And then everything else kind of set up and move could be okay. But if you're drums and bass a whack whack. The whole all quite knows why it's wrong and my just doesn't feel right even like tori move you you got one of the most the voice of pure but a it but if trump and basil wack nine view. I just don't yeah it was. It was definitely one of the things. Where after that that particular point in time after that i was taken seriously. And then you know after working roy. Yup i was taken very seriously. Okay yeah well you know the whole like you know pop soul rb once you can Jam in a slightly more jazzy vein of things. But we wouldn't necessarily jazz because it was. I mean not. Jazz in wyoming is more complex arrangements. Yes yes yes just sliding yeah zero. The the aren't going to be standing. Four or five roy. I always call him like the godfather of neo soul. Because you guys mary. J. blige covered like quite a few eric. I do the same and you know to me. You know that whole kind of music. Colorization that you even people like the angelo uses is again. Roy is kind of carlo. The those beautiful sofa collars yeah and again when he then on the base can make the right choices around those types of arrays aren't exactly then it's like wall right so and that led on to me then Going into the public domain. Because i remember whilst at ronnie scott's we've we've roy. Is those musicians us pause for because you know if you had your that. Mu a membership. You can't get in going in to see the gigs. And i remember quite lot. Musicians was passing through and know thinking get his did he. Because at that point you know if american is came over american musicians. It was as simple as that i didn't. It wasn't didn't happen young back from south london. Doom playing with here and keep it up. Do we keep it up. I mean you you know yourself. I can be a bold caritas instrument. Do not yet definitely is tight rope. You you know you're doing some of you're very well known for but i want to take it from what's on the record to the live domain yet. Make it sound a little bit more special butts if you musically step on the toes of the artists. You're either going to get look yet or you're going to get a message via somebody else is. We're not show talk and if it continues you might get another gig was what you said. It's a really thin line between complimenting. Yeah what the audience knows. And then feeling is still exactly what i know about. Has this flavor that's been added. Yeah versus dot guys. Got enough for one second. Have in his own party over. That's where playing with. Roy was where i learned how to do that. Okay gentlemen because i won. Because i can't really knew the songs inside because i was such a great fan but also hearing how the band sounded like with donald duck. I kind of knew. Roy would life so i will kind of just experiment a little bit and sometimes you have in the groove. Just stretch out a little bit. And if i got a little bit of look turnaround okay. What we learned back it again. Yeah and you can find your. Yeah all right and again. In within that situation i had Some great schooling according schooling but just fantastic company. I mean on that particular gig. There was a drama called. Dennis davis and he's on the law of the early roy ayers records anthem so he's on red black green album. He's on the coffee album. He's on you know the you. Send me album bunnies on kuala l. But he's also on the whole the july stevie wonder album. he's also on quite a few of the david bowie albums. that's him. Oh ashes to ashes and the yeah said this guy. He wasn't someone who knew about the music. The isolated i. That was his arm. He was on the and i remember. We were playing one soon. We were playing one time and it was a nice kind of discount to what funk took it. And i'll just kind of in the groove and as we playing i i don't think and he's like he's got this look on his face and he goes. You gotta listen to me. Man gotta pick in on. This has been slapped tada via just not just well okay well. He knows a lot more to me. Humble myself even myself in that moment and for arcade let me to really listen to him and full okay. Okay i'm i'm just gonna look and i didn't realize but he was making these just little incremental micro adjustments by inbetween like the verse the chorus that until the hugh you know he may push course just a little bit hint towards pushing no bit more energy come back in the inverse and then once i really with him he started laughing. Joe leave. And i knew i had it. I mean 'cause the end of the day you know. He's one of those guys if the had to explain to you what it was that was wrong and you go no place being on that stage and he would be like roy man. I can't work with catman. Yeah yeah it would be that straight. It wouldn't even talk to you about it. Just be like oh man we got somebody else. I mean ready. He would go to that. Stage means because that's the thing on stage is is a is a Does take some time being in a band. Biggest band small bands wherever everyone is actually listening to everyone else. Yes as well as figuring out time in as whereas figuring out cusworth figuring out as when gay agenda song went to give less house excluding day do need to support and more. We need to just back off a little bit more all. That stuff is I it takes being on stage and giving it time to learn that. Yeah and being open to humble enough to learn that. Because i guess another thing Again you've worked in different people so you definitely need to be able to be able to appreciate that more so than even myself. Because i'm os working with me as the primary whereas you're always that to support. Yeah the vision. I guess yeah over the on stage. Yeah and that vision changes spies so i might be like. Oh just be free and the other person might be like we want. Abc yes it has yeah was talking to say all right. Let me put back what you just wanna go free. Is you know. I've been knowing when to do that. And sometimes it's no to do that even before you've been told you just really coulda suss up the situation and just look at it because it's not as they they need to be right on top of everything and don't want any kind of musical challenges or anything like that. Yeah eddie more import. I guess we just want a particular platform yet foundation musical bed. And that's it and that's right for them. I guess on this some of the some of the artists. It want you to come with it. Come on stretch. Because yeah they they journey. I mean yeah. Yeah so Yea i think working with roy was where where learned how to do that. How to pull in bits and he's been up the music and take it somewhere without the is turning around and give you a let's say y'all my my gigabytes so so running scott saw Seen by A drama md. Uncle frank tanto and He was then like okay. Man you decided nice. And at that point i was doing the little bit of the ayers had this great jingle poop who la la the original record was like synth bass so i'm gonna play the since based on guys. You know what i mean so is running some you case it a little bit. Yeah 'cause miller. Yeah 'cause i i. Basically i'd seen a friend of mine. Mark willis Do that with alexandra. Nu'uanu blew my mind like base and you went home and again in a week. I had but your self driven see someone do something. Do not go. I'm not having that. I wanna be able to do that so a go. I got myself a little space. I'm just based on the woman. I looks lovely. Oh the sixteenth street. It's a beautiful based on the ball. Okay yes so since base and learn that stuff in and you know working with. Roy gave me the opportunity to do that. Yeah and And i also worked with don blackman occur and one of his june synth bass thing with an played that as well on the gig and frank was like. There's a geek coming up and they wanna bass player that can do base. And since he said we'd love to have yes i was supposed to. It is craig david. Oh all right okay. So this was the very first team all bands. Okay craig was about to have because he was doing stuff though just acoustic guitars via in that case then. That is the first time. I saw you on stage as in literally honest because at some point i don't know when it was at some point i did see. That's all okay. You were on that source of that was probably would have been the first time i've actually saw you on on thing is at that point. I wasn't even like you know. I was basically just in st joe's like five years prior. Yeah so my mainstream yeah. Career was not a prospect that point and so yeah great. Wow so yes. He's aligns yes so that gave me brought me into the the pump domain. Yeah but what was what was fun about. It is is because the puck thing had a whole different discipline. They are much more any little ones and zeros. You play it like the record yet but coming from the school that i. I'm not a half the season this season off. But when you do that you is all about the vocals is if you do anything that encroaches on vocals you're fired. It's out that's is learning how to how to just make it sound live here but don't get in the way you lift the artist really make them and i believe freebase you can make other things shine. You can make you shine of course simply for the way you play the bass. Yeah that's that's the whole familiar anyway. That's the whole point. I always say like live is the is the real sal You know you can sell records the real reason that you're putting off anyway. The reason i like to release music music out is because i want people to come and see me live because i believe that's the best version of myself and when you do that you want them to have that experience which to me should be the enhanced version. Exactly exactly. if you want the record. I listened to the record yet. But when you come and see me. I want you to leave and say oh man. Oh wow hebrew game like this was a lot of fun you know so which you know it can be done. There's many ways of of many ways of skinning Don't ever do that. That's not the right thing but yeah there's many ways of cooking the same dish. Yeah for me. I just want when you come see me live. I believe that's the selling point. I believe when someone says you know. I to buy the next record. I wanna come to the next gig. Yeah and that's your and at the same time that's when you can lose someone that was great was it. You know so well no. We don't enter that domain. That only take it to the next. But i remember at one point working. We've you think it has the before we went the truth about love just dropped uptown and we were doing some. Tv's yup and i remember. It was mtv or something. We would doing john of carnival. We'll be doing but there was one of the songs because you had a a real kind of classic soul yet real classic soul field about These things so a foot right. I'm going to go back to four string bass and really get that classic feel and kind of just enhanced living pino on the record yes right. Yeah yeah you should got enough but anyway also penal was using that kind of jameson type motown pro shift so our foot right. I'm gonna go for like the motown jameson. Kill on this. On his groove. Everybody's one shoe we were playing and there was a breach pot that comes about two free times in the song. Yeah on a on the third one awful on go. Put these motels motown jameson chilly. And then we ought to what it came up to me said man whenever we get to that bridge. I don't even want to say listen to see other people to see this. I love what you do that to me that time man. That was such a big compliments. Meant so much. As far as i was concerned. I just really wanted to make musical. Yeah but just knowing the meant so much not do. Because i don't say stuff like that to know what i mean. That mean some of them just cooking clock out yet but you name but do you know what is also you know you. Can you can hear or feel when anyone ever. Bbv's whether it be guitars anyone has gone the extra mile because like you can be back then not sending out cds. You could send out cd. And people thing that the codes they come and play and you can hear blah blah blah blah diff played. They've learned the song yeah. Learning a song is very different to learning. Like you said you know without you even saying what you said that. I would know that you did that. All would would think that he. He's amazing or he must have done that because you sat okay. That's that guys approach. How can i bring my flavor. What approach should i take. you said. yeah. I went back to four screen. Based i can say all that thought process So if everyone in the band does that When it comes together it sounds like nine ten was that i intend to make it somehow. That's because Some people you know they kind of just play to Kind of just get the job done but for me. That's that's never been enough. Which is probably why i wanna play. I wanna match you up a play devastate and it's not issued thing. He's kind of an attitude of all the instruments. The one thing one instrument that really requires a lot of attitude and this is not to do. We take me because you can be. You know technically rubbish. If you've got a much attitude on the particular instrument the base yeah it's just gonna come through the main so we you know to sound that way is not something that can just happen. You have to mean. It has the full intention. So i listened to the record of okay. How is he doing this. So we're thinking that the sound allah is seventy sixties soul. Yeah this so he's thinking right. Fostering precision. Basil juniper mean jameson. Type thing gentlemen. I think all the type of things to mean and that makes for that makes for a damn an and i know i wanna increase. It are no are still. Don't wanna get of your vocals. But i still wanna make you go out. It's a it's a balance. It's a balanced so funny because when i showed up with the four string fender steve levitt the the production manager so proper base. Five string bass pro pro. You know as well you don't realize like sometimes even people just loading unloading out the experience that you'll surrounded by is is I don't know it's pretty. It's pretty awesome sometimes. Yeah yeah yeah yeah all right so look so you got the call Craig told us a big one massive. Oh man i mean he's still going. I mean particular was also can when walking away and filming in everything was just. It was in charge. I mean seven days in the chart at that time. And that was the first time that i'd heard in terms of instead of just applause when you this is the first round screaming the absolute pandemonium going on genetic bike. Oh my goodness the boys must have been that. yes. I mean those. Those are big. Gigs them whatever. Yeah yeah but craig was on. That was in the moment bag right there because still at that point. That was mid nineties. Georgia's big outing was but you know the the eighties. This was some in the mall right guard via the you know he was the ticket. They're not mean. Whoa yeah you know and just depend. Ammonium was crazy to mean playing the first tour and then a few months paying the arena told the plaque all man arenas there yeah older arena dates and Yeah you know plane to those those huge crowds having different to the jazz swing way. You can conduct strict you every night and go somewhere else. This was somewhere. That destination was very defiant. Young you play it just like the record be on the money mania and then but in front of you know fifteen thousand people every night tonight. That's all right. I mean you know what. That's all about good fun. It's good and it was for me. It was the first time doing that. Yeah you know what i mean at that level and it was fantastic love to a loved it. I really loved it so then. So then from craig's one. What what was the next project. Well I remember finishing up with with craig and i remember hearing this song. Cool dance review. Oh i thought man guy with green grass man. I'd love to work with him. Song bad straight after. Yes no. I do not run month. Oh man i met him being seriously. Because i remember it was the last day the i actually remember december the twelve. Yeah t- thousand. Frey was the last thing. I did with craig maida vale studios in london Some kind of christmas pre-crisis thing and then literally i had about off and i got the call bell. Come what will you gal it was. It was that i that pocket. You remember the first promo tour. We did january february. Two thousand four and the go group four one one four one. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yes. I felt like. I was on top because we're creating the road. Yeah we we've we've used you not mean and songs were good fun. It was yeah just in between Working with craig. And yourself did some stuff with alexandra. Neil so that was how i got to work with billy awry. Yes then has the list limitation at one point. I was doing. My head was huge because at one point a one point i was playing with roy is don blackman and alexander. O.'neil at the same time. Those those gigs you know s. You know he's going gonna say you know. This is why they mean what. I do and also playing with alexandra neil. That's what really got my awful during the craig. David place in space actually lost that race basically only about fortunes on bass guitar and jam and lewis yup funk funk you can't get off the stage i'm turning you ain't got no business in that means so You know working with with billy and and those guys alexander neil. That's what really got my sin plan right up there another main my first gig we've addicts Manning was an. That was the first time i was really actually nervous on stage over there. Yeah because i think. I can't remember what the situation was. But then he called me to come in and do at least gig are picked up the the mini disc of the the called sir and and learn that. But the thing was it was one of those. You know. Meet some festivals. Are i think it was like a festival in waffles. We lows kind of things so we will probably about five or six early evening late afternoon here and So obviously the band before you. There's a battle before that so we get onto the stage. There's no soundcheck it was literally. Oh yeah this is dean. He's playing bass today and Okay you know all right well to oh and there was no house. Prior to that annexed do thing where he wouldn't sing until he was feeling the groove. He did it on every gig. Do not mean. He don't open his mouth until he feels that. Yes i'm feeling. Yeah now. i'm ready. And you stop singing and i remember one of these groups. We'll plan on. We were going round the groove and acts leaves the front of the stage and walked towards me and it looked like to me he. Would you stay romy out. What's i'm playing out that it didn't like a very friendly. it's sick just get his groove. Paid his crew to the draw. He's expression on. His face doesn't change but then he says bad motherfucker. Oh he likes. This guy called play i was. I was certain he was like this guy. Can't play a like that. A bad mother goes all over. Stop to listen you. Because he'd never heard me before. I let me check out. This guy must bring it to the scene. I i was seriously. I was petrified. But you see what i mean again. All those little validation see we've your story the story spin like you know a lot of people i would say you know if you're a baseball or musician. Trying to get into bands and touring in that get in front of people showed them how much you've learned every single time and organically. You've been recommended recommended recommended. Because you're right good I'm not sure if. I'm not sure if that if that that can be the case or the same journey everyone but the key thing is you know put in the amount of time into your own issue into whatever you wanna do wherever it be. Songwriting whether it be singing reverend. Be playing an instrument the bass guitar the drums. Wherever is do that. also say. You've been a very proactive. Socially you know. Say you saw cracking. God i can so your i open to see what is there is there. When the hasn't been that you still going to open nights to just play because you love playing. Do you think those things still hang around the hanging around. Do you think there's as much war right now. There's none of it but you think the every night paying somewhere there as many venues doing that just pre pandemic but hopefully you know i think the pendulum will have been pulled back so far that is going to be a big swing because we have been off real entertainment. Real live music. People appreciating live artistic expression right there in front of them in the fresh in the moment so Hopefully we're gonna see a nice healthy resurgence of some that. How fantastic live music. Yeah i think when the your description of color like the open mic night speak is Other seem very helpful. In your case you know people. Yeah these guys down. Just the that one's good to pick that one out that one's great pick that one out and and recommending you into other bands to get seen and to keep them top of your game was a hasn't in the room of ishmael was very different. Actually doing a gig. Even we've ishmael online is one experienced and being in the room One experience the live small stages want experience and progressing to bigger stages Is is kind of an experience. I think they all serve their purpose yet. They will connect you know bought initiative. I think is like you say loving the that is that you do. Yeah and then to expand on that yeah and like you say you're still passionate about it and that's one thing i never wanna lose the i. I still wanna be like a little kid in a candy shop. You know what. I mean sums of music. It's yeah ease that thing that that's the only way you keep on growing. Yeah and you've never learned to all so you know for the last. How many years have been writing songs and recording and producing an so. There's been so much stuff. I'm still learning. Journey doesn't end so dean from twenty twenty one on what's obviously is still going to do some live stuff. That's always s in your veins. The holiday i need that neither am. I saw that that standard got twenty four seven men. You got me. You got me moving forward. Line for dean. Is that your you just happy content just by that all as the ave you know how. How else do you express yourself well. It's funny because so over the past five years. I've been getting material together in the view of trying to put together a dean mock album. Originally arcana fought the you know just me being a bass player that that would be more of an instrumental kind of journey. But it's so turns out that all the rule vocal guys you see because you kind of end up doing stuff and writing stuff sound and then you know of involved a few different singers along the way one of which is ladonna Lovely la donna. Ladonna done some some. Yes she should brought out. Hey listen man. I mean you know We both want to give you but we also put together with. We've done blackman. Who is one of the legends of american funk a and this particular song heart's desire that is like it's one of the baddest funk chewed of drive on a full. I'm gonna do a cover of it. I mean sacrilege. How dare you cover this phone for a half. You're going to just cover. I'm gonna put means my own stamp on it. But i'm going to get because we work together and sadly back in two thousand thirteen don sadly passed away so i wanted to do this as a kind of tripped tritium. You know covering one of his songs. Yeah and using as many of the guys in the band. I could get either myself and ladonna seeing lead and And junior curtain on drums. He was he was playing drums with with me. Don guys well so but don man vocals. Oh yeah she came. She did the vocals here on earth and she samak. Oh my my gosh. Absolutely she sounds tran flipping testier. Still current project is everything. You is passion. You can tell one thing from today's podcast. Passion is is huge wendy's generally so so that's good so you'll find your passion into that as well and it's a pain mark album. Has it gone name you still. You're still tinkering. i'm still. I dunno because of obviously i played you quite a few trying to trying to trying to come across his work at. I've had the thing's amazing people is it just sounds. I might even call the like named the album. Oh my quoted goosebumps because there was a someone of goosebumps some butterflies love that share and polls show the name. Kinda sticks out in my. I might use that. I don't know if you don't to get to album stance that might be the That might be the name of the album. I so that's a good name. Good but as i said originally. I didn't really see me singing anything. Yeah yeah yeah. I think a lot of times we limit ourselves. Yeah just enduring whatever. Because i always been the guy at the back back is one thing our dean base. These like gig. I used to do the host of the show. You say an on the base. We have the face play. Make these faces. Some people didn't actually know my name. They just need the face. I remember somewhere in the face to face to face radio face for base. Yeah you know what we've been. You know just like the guy in the back album the face you know. I'll tell you a little story. Because as i say a managed to get roy to play on the album a part of the the deal was the i i helped him out or one of the shows. Go right so. I helped him out with some. Bbc's right because yeah he didn't Muffing on that particular show He's normal. bv guy. john presley didn't wasn't able to make the show. Whatever someone said you know. I worked for many years. So i know everything so for k. l. Be for you as well. He's all cool cool so you know help. Landline me session. You know put the finger. Was that day. I just oh. God i'm going to be on stage and even holding an instrument are was never did came in here come into the studio broome took out a couple of temporary move on that stage singing empty-handed i can't do familiarity comfort comfort like the edison days. Me myself with a yalcin. Bb's for you. I don't because i think view. But i'm leaving but yeah i had triangle even have dry lip. But you still hold the triangle. I feel more comfortable like. This guys is hilarious. Yeah that was funny. But i guess at some point. I'm really going to have to get my act together. yes of just taking it to the next dimension. Yeah yeah yeah. How did you when you when you did not talk about. How did you have the biggest know. The thing i think is with anything though the more you do it the more you'll become more comfortable and eventually is to second nature second nature man enough to get second nature kind of quick are you gonna. Are you gonna drop the album soon or is it more. You're just gonna continue until you feel. It's perfect in your eyes and then you're going to do it like war is. Is there a time a bit above. Because i'm i'm getting the first one ready. The one with roy is your ready. So we're because because i'm kind of just doing every field not signed or anything like that and their skin so i to learn to do everything to the mixing and stuff like that and does on a lot better so you enjoying that. It's a real. Science is science science. That never ends genital mean and so. I've i've improved and i've got lot better so what had to do. Go back and listen to some of the stuff. I've completed at the beginning stage. I'm not okay different. Yeah different so. I went back here and then i remixed I wanna touch you baby. The Covers roy is sound wicked now so it cleared yes. Oh go get that moss did but then you know now going to start thinking about all the other things you know the the the mocked inside the digital w all that all that kind of stuff so i have out there you know by the summer or whatever and finish up the rest and stuff you know in the meantime so probably towards the end of the year you have like a full dean mark project generally main and then often that when the live. Oh okay open again. I'm ready wait on the stage shredding basis. All over the cutoff telling you murder base. Yes i'm ready for the live thing and but you know it's it's looked down. At least i will have something to show for this lockdown. I was gonna say how's it. How's it been. If on the whole the whole people saying june june july jerkin next edge can. When do you think it will be back sir. I've done what normal is i. Don't know i mean. I hope that we can keep to this road map as it as it were but as we know with the i've never seen anything implemented without the sign difficulty turns. I mean speaking to someone say you know if you've got ten thousand people in the field or more. I don't know what the regulations around we're gonna be a limit As ingredients you know trouble is highly probable that there's gonna be some sort of regulation regulation in terms of getting getting these things back into operation. Yeah mean so. I think it will be over optimistic to think that yet. It will buy right to normal as it was. You know it will be going back to normal. There's there's going to be a difference for a little while before we fully gets back but as long as we start you know we've got stars numbers we star and get people back into listening to live because you remember live music for me as i i. I've said it before you know. Sometimes you get those kind of venting. Facebook posts had but i really do believe that live. Music is really a huge part of people's good mental health. it really adds towards really good wellbeing. Live music. I e can only do you good and i think once we're allowed people really appreciate Now there's been a break probably even also. Oh probably i think absolutely definitely milton than than pre pandemic people who they. They're really going to appreciate it. And this is a funny thing because we've always as musicians. We've always appreciated even remember when we did the Those couple of weekends with robbie williams take a couple of pitches new place up on facebook and you know the the common phrases. I love my job and even back then pre pandemic we knew it. We knew that this is the is an incredible life to have definitely genital mean. Now you know knowing the yes. No that if we can get back to that then it'd be live is have even more of a great value being able to share music with people who have so much even more great values. I've really hope the we We can go back and give people that. We've more feeling a more relevance yet more enthusiasm. Yeah more of these cool. I think it will be. It'll be great when we made that musical return dana. Thank you so much for jumping on the show Absolute pleasure yeah. Hopefully there's a young not just base pair. There's a young musician out. There who either has been inspired already by seeing you on stage somewhere or is going to take up that guitar and take the next step from into the room to the actual stage once everything gets back to normal and you know start improving on that croft and it's not commute thing right. I enjoyed that one. Always nice catching up with. If you'd like to follow dean on social media facebook dean mark and twitter is dean mark base one baseba. Ss right. do you know what was even better than conversation. We had off towards dean. Decided to do a little cockup and he made some so fish fritters that was like the highlight of the day. So tasty so yeah. Good company could right. There might be a pause in the frequency of shows over the next month or so. But for good reason as low projects on the side. Which i'll be able to tell you more about ingenious so hall titan no doubt though you get low paying when the next episode of the show is up once again thank you so much listening and keep your ears pilled. If you like today's show please do subscribe. And if you can't take a moment to write this podcast on itunes. I appreciate you You have any questions or suggestions for the show. Please do for free to email me. It's lamar at the lamar. Show dot com. That's lamar l. e. m. a. r. dot com. If you're an artist or musician and you like some advice bill free right on the next one.

roy donald knicks ronnie scott brazil ray gaskins jocelyn brown al green Roy cindy guitar national youth theatre prince camp gaskins desmond ball london Mash malcolm feely craig david camden norman connors Komo gilmore kim zell
#173 Santiago "PokerLogia" Mansilla: Author & Keeper of Poker Lore

Chasing Poker Greatness

49:36 min | 2 months ago

#173 Santiago "PokerLogia" Mansilla: Author & Keeper of Poker Lore

"Poker's legendary champions next generation stars tireless astor's agape sharing their wisdom and guiding your journey until high achievements on the green felt chasing boettger greatness with your host. Brad wilson. welcome. Welcome welcome my friend. Another episode of the chasing poker grain is podcast as always. This is your host. The founder of chasing poker greatness dot com coach. Brad wilson and today's guest on c. p. g. is sent tiago garcia an sia who's a poker author lover of the game and long time media member if you've been listening to see. Pg for the past year you may recall a twitter tournament. Iran called hashtag poker goat. Books edition that win a little sideways heading to the finish line. I woke up one beautiful morning with dmz. From eric sidell which under almost any other circumstances would have been a great way to wake up accusing jonathan little of buying twitter votes so that his book could win more matches. There were all kinds of ugly accusations from influential members of the booker community. And i ended up posting a message having jonathan little on the podcast to address all the silliness. The reason i bring this up is because santiago was the human who initially pitchman the idea coming off the success of the original hashtag poker tournament and if the goal was to sell books china's spotlight on some amazing poker authors and their works that may have slipped through the cracks over time then mission accomplished if the goal was to get eric side l. Come onto the podcast. That one still feels a little like mission impossible at the moment but the reason the idea seemed so obvious to santiago is because of his immense love for the poker storytellers of the world. He's a living keeper of the best poker tales ever told and the entire poker world ought to be thankful to have someone as passionate about preserving poker's culture and history as santiago in today's episode. You're going to learn how a single poker tournament went on to change san diego's life forever amazing suggestions for poker books to read many of which you've probably never heard of the story and inspiration behind santiago's book quintas ear lot those stay poker which appropriately enough translates to stories and tales of poker and much much more so now without any further. Ado i bring to you author storyteller and keeper of poker lore saint tiago garcia men diego. Welcome to the show sir. how are you doing. thanks for pleasure to hear that. It's a pleasure having you. I was just saying the pre conversation that i should have been smart enough to ask you to come on earlier but for some reason i didn't so i apologize on that and the way that we met. Let's talk about the way that we met first before we get into your story because the hashtag poker goats book tournament addition was actually your idea. you persuaded me to put it together so tell me about how you came up with the idea in the first place and what your experience was like excellent yes. It was a time a lot of contests negative the best movie or the best sector. So i saw the never had been a book a booker but countess soul and i think i'm they want to do it because a big sign auger votes and tell you. Hey we can do this i. I will do the honcho selecting the sixty four books. And then you can go and i think it was a great idea and unluckily successful saw a nice three with booker books. Yeah i thought it was a success as well. Even though the experience wasn't pleasant all the time for both of little bit of controversy meal controversy. Yeah tell me about the unexpected controversy of hash poker. Go for the list. Are the goat in that sense. For greatest of all time and to put it in context. I did a hashtag poker tournament players. Maybe six months before that got a lot of traction and then santiago came to me with the hashtag poker. Go book idea which i was like. Yeah this this'll be a fun little thing. Nobody's going to care about this. Maybe it'll be popular listener. What happened yes. I think all the players beginning mold and even eight excitable them all the big names. It's at first. They only mcneich okay. They share the content. Okay i'm i'm here. Police bought me and then when the competition was going on the final sixteen each like s. I think the nature of the competition in the players. We'll see that. I think yeah all hell broke loose. We we got yelled at from prominent members of the booker community. We got. I know that i got called an at least an idiot and probably more so and like deemed not not by air side l. I'm going to lead the names out of this. But basically that was a big disappointment. I see but i think that they also that that that that the name must idiot it was changed like so to say the things but this name and he told us that we shouldn't meet like strategy books and bios a classic books that we we should make like. I go contest for every category bad. We have to do that. See the thing is like he. He has a point in that. Like maybe it could have been structured better right and that's that's totally my fault because i just random is it because i thought like the last time i did this. There was so much controversy. Over like the seedings and all the shit. And i was like i just want to randomize this and put the brackets up that way. Nobody can complain. Because it's like fully random boy. Was i wrong. People very much could complain and yeah it was a little disappointing. I think in that the concept the idea behind it was to get these books in these authors. More publicity so that they can sell some more books and we can celebrate some of the poker literature. That's just kind of sitting there and for to kind of go sideways. Was it was unexpected. But it was really big success to for you know for the one the very few folks that complained there were many many people who praised it and loved it and love being part of it and So i i certainly want to do it again. And i'll we'll probably structure it a little differently next time just for the sake of doing so and i think my plan is to When i do poker tournaments moving forward we'll just remove the one book that one and then reset it with everybody else so that we can have like a yearly champion or something like that but it was a fun experience and i to wake up to direct messages from eric. Sidell which was exciting because eric sidell is my hero. Maybe it wasn't in the context that i wanted to happen but it happened anyway going back to you. Tell me what your story look. Like entering the world of cards. Okay well my book. Our journey began will buy in one poker book. I by syria. Fokker buysc lansky. How how old were you at. How are you are you now. I thirty seven now. This was like twenty years ago. Marlins and the guy who i bought the book was like a big fino worker books so like we we extend over. Phones became friends. And he invited me to a homing. He played with with other friends. Like thirty. twenty five thirty or guys blame. How are you now thirty seven and then when you got invited to the game twenty five maybe ten ten twelve years five twenty six. And where are you. Where are you from by the way. I'm from argentina. Argentina's how is the poker world in argentina. Now it's like swallow the virus. It's stopped the tournaments We have like long teams here like eight. Nine months Yes we we have got like a boom fokker bod. It started like in a twenty ten years ago more or less. Okay we'll pause there go back to your story so you're getting in poker you get invited. It's a little bit before the argentinian poker boonsak cool a so i became like the venue organizer game because they were playing strange shootout bit. Were the sleep. Players passed to the final table. And i told them guys. You can be reducing that on the tables unplanned like a regular tournament. Okay okay you do. Starting star was like twenty glance. They say no guys with one hundred ignites recovered light his okay well so i change all the tournaments became like the new the new boss of the hong and until now if today that that was ten years ago so it's very good group of friends that that that booker gave me. Yeah and they just put you in charge you. You're the suggestion guy in your award is now you get to organize everything forever. Congratulate yes on one also poker. Give me many costs in in one of those trips. We say okay. Let's go to play to a casino because tournaments here began to to grow one. There were tournaments like two hundred hundred people's and we say okay. Let's go to ross idea. It's like a three hour trip. It's the biggest casino here in latin america. It's no saudi. it's called city center. They play in the in the in the convention hotel command and it's very big. It's like the biggest place here to to play poker and determined that ten was no no reentry. So i got king's birthday last half an hour in the tournament and say okay. What are we going to tonight because good to have fun where we go out and the night i met a girl which change our false and tokar. I'm pretty sure a tournament. If one of my friends came first second or third is going to pay us buying next month to come back and say okay. Okay let me know on the other day. One of my friends got sick so he did the buying and say i call her and going back next month they want to see me yes of course and we started dating and the distance like one like like an ear full year and then he she moved from. Rossa wanna is. That's what's ten years ago. Now we have two two young kids so vulgar gave me also a family and until beautiful kids. So that's a great story saint. And but i will say this. Would you have gone back if your friend doesn't get second like let's be honest with ourselves here. I have a feeling you may have but maybe six months later when we come back to play way we can take the next moms because he pays the by hand. That's the only reason okay. Let me so what i'm saying. Is you met your future wife. You exchange anyway all right. I hope your wife doesn't listen to this to hot water. Yeah you're going to be in hot water if your wife listens back to this now proudly now she want this and no. I got you to only see her. That's what's correct. Yeah yeah that's what i'm saying. Yes and also it happens because the next month are they all our friends than whoa never made a final table. And the next month i call her. Okay i go. let's see us. And then she came back to an aside. So yes answer your question yes there you go. We circled around it. We finally got the right answer. So where did you know. In this ten years ago you met your wife through poker at my wife through poker. You and i are actually the same age. Nice tell me where did poker loggia or lodge. i don't know. I pronounce it poker loggia in my head. I find perfect. Okay yeah okay. My head didn't go. That far but vocal and i apologies for the butchering. Where did that come about like why did you. Why did you fall so in love with poker ten years ago that you decided i want it to be a much bigger part of my life and what was your life like pre poker. What was your career. I was in school. Batman studying like business. School poker was like a hobby. I start reading books. And i know i'm not. I also love to reduce and right. Also so i start sending some articles about booker to booker web here in pena like similar to poker news but here antena on. They loved them. I remember the title of my first article was the seven feet of poker. An listed like like seven commons states. And i started to write in a poker web but was like a second job. I maintain my mind. I started my my job on a night. I write articles to two to one website. Then i started to write it on the magazine. Conquer was here in indiana and so became to to read more and more in two thousand fifteen. I made my first trip to las vegas to cover the the main event and that was like a dream come. True was was spectacular. Nice in in this whole time. Were you playing poker where you studying like. Were you playing cards as much as you're writing about cards. And if not why did the writing about the cards attract you so much while. I was playing but like below stakes casino here. I may like what first time. I went to a casino. I remember here one seitis. I got eleven like bubble of final table but manage to us so i was instantly hooked with the game. Say okay. I have to play more tournaments than static to late more and more byron's itchy. It's hard. I learned it in hot weather. The hard times of flight. Park live tournaments. No it's it's very hard to to to keep the positive aspects of the game. So i started to learn. Tell me about you learning that lesson because it sounds like a pretty brutal lesson yes but beats by. Bids were hard bobble. Couple of baubles Claim twelve hours in tournament to came back on late to on on burst busted. I kind of the tool. So it's like it's very. I begun to to play more online. Because what's what's hard for me. Yeah but it still seems like you kept your love of the game going display despite going through the difficulties exactly and in twenty nineteen. I can make to las vegas for my second trip to to cover the main event again now with polka larger. And i play my first. Wb events the mini main event when my acs got cracked by pocket. Fives i say. Okay enough of tournaments and play for the first time cashman's on and i was surprised to them. Say okay. I can play two hours. Three hours have looked very very own. Go there with my monday to drink my mercy and all nights. I finished work in the media and rooms walking on and then to two hours to blend. Gosh thanks and then go to sleep. So i came in with gaskins was nicer price to enjoy them. It's all the reasons why. I've loved cash games throughout the years myself. So tell me about you. Know your dream coming true and going to the wpa the first time right to cover the. W what was that. Like any memorable experiences you'd like to share. Yes well the i. I was in two thousand fifteen the year. The one job mckean. I don't know how prances and the first time i saw helmet. And he told me argentina and he started to sing a song of a movie in tennessee. While this guy is is great. I thought he's got an hour. No photos get out and he. He sold me. Starting to sing. Like our our agron to take pictures with all Players that i saw Into the or in use bien play. What's what's I think okay. I want to do this all over the years. It was very happy. And i play like the here in las vegas. There's like a media Role to the media geyser and it's free. It's open bar. So imagine guys from france italy russell all laughing and winking and they come prices to all the final table and that first year. I got like eight or seven. I don't remember. And i got like one hundred bucks to to spend on starbucks so fan max from las vegas. Ooh to too much my dad and my my friend so it was very funny. I enjoy it a lot. Also men and what about your second trip. How did your second trip go. Is it as good as the first or better. My second trip was where. I play my. I live event main event. While i i no no no. Ytm there then. I play are a daily deep sticks like two hundred bucks or so. And i got bobbled also a queens versus five so that night. I dream with buckets. Fives was and then. I played those two terms and then i passed. I moved to say okay. Now this is. This is what i want to play an an and i i want i want money okay for now. Only gaskins because tournaments was very very hard and i. I don't have more or a lot of time to play tournaments because they helped to work. I'm also working from the giant amazon rome brazilian room walking making through. So there is no big time to determine so gosh games. Maybe one hour to hour and go to bed to rest. So it's perfect. Yes what i was going to say. It seemed like you were playing more in their second trip instead of doing more than media side. But i guess you were just doing both Under second time fact that he has citizen both. It's like two intense weeks today. it's the day a maybe it's twenty four hours yard snooping only four fight because it's intensity to to to maximum level so tell the listener because my audience is why majority american lester about you know poker lohia and what. It does what the purpose of it is. All these things okay. Balodia a started in twenty like twenty years ago more or less and it's like a poker news but from argentina started a coloring life tournaments from travels to all the to all the different casinos here in argentina on its unsold news strategy. I read reviews of books there. We we recommend like poker. Movies are booker. tv show. Aw related to poker we have. They're very very wide but all poker related so basically argentina's poker news pretty much that definition and why books. Because you're the like i said before you're the brainchild behind hashtag poker. Go book edition. Why do you love books so much. What it is is it about books. I also i. I love reading books from next fifteen in the school. I love books. And when i discovered the first folks like hiring and gus consume every unrevealed. It's like pure entertainment direct to to to to like my passion. So it's it's it's perfect because you don't you you have strategy but you have also buyers you have nobles. They're plenty of poker nobles that nobody knows but there are plenty and very entertainment. So i think there's a wide world books to to know and maybe my my mission in twitter and it is to tell the on the hour followers. Okay you can reduce that is excellent. You can release so. I made a long article in the news In asia and i separate like in the poker goat but very complete classics nobles. And i hear i made like a connection for you so when you want when you want. They can read might three books from each category so for area listeners. Yeah send me. Send me that list. And we'll put it on the show page so that the listener can visit your show page and visually see it and click through okay perfect. There are more than four hundred books so the list is long already you for this interview. I select only three for each category. So when when you want the. I can read them perfect. Yeah we'll do it in the lightning round at the at the end of the interview while right before we close up shop dog. What's brad wilson is. This surefire plan neutralized flop leads an route that dunk shreds no-fault gha chasing booker greatness dot com slash enough. Tell me what's the most unexpected thing that come from your journey through the world of cards nights nyquist and i. I never thought that i. I'm going to meet my wife in poker tournament. That was very unexpected. I know and so When we go to the doctor to see our obstetrician to tower of i kid and so he must you play poker so the duct tape mike. It was so so booker players. So it's like insane. How pucker always manage to to came in my life so it's insane by well i love it. I'm a big fan of us. you know. yeah. I mean. It's i think the the game is loved it. It's clearly a part of americana. Just in our lexicon of speech idioms that are relate to poker playing fast and loose with the facts. All things like this that are just in the language that like everybody uses and nobody really stops to think about why these phrases exists. It's just it's woven into the fabric of our society at least here in america and it sounds like in argentina as well. Yes yes i obviously. The game is very american but here we. We had like a little bit of fashion. The game no way we we shall help you task passion. Yes you're right okay you dance. He them somebody. I saw it. Is that kind of passion passion. We talking about now. I'm like when the guys are alina tournament. They stand up. Okay give me a give me a jag shouting lot or but maybe they don't take it so good say ger maybe some some sometimes some hell how mu theun reaction ashby's yeah understood understood. You have also recently written a book. So let's talk about that. You finally said of promoting authors. You decided to join the ranks of poker author yourself so let south listener about this book that you cooked up exactly. Yes well. I always wanted to write my my personal bad. I'm not such a good player to writes about strategy. So i decided to to write short stories because there is no nogi spanish about short stories of poker. They are two or three in in english but there is no one in spanish so i decided okay. I couldn't do i. Could i could do this and start writing like six months in the bus during the panic. Because i have like all day look down here and the nights have begun to write. I enjoyed an came up with a with another journalist here from argentina. It's called mataya society on the funny thing is i never met we. We wrote the book the both of us. But i never met he. I ski living lives in around in another pro Four hundred miles away but we're a super friends and and we send me. he stales. I sent him his my short stories. And we we celebrate when we have both ten short stories that select the best one son and create the book and then happened this happened. Left from argentina won the main event of the world series of poker and his story was like that he's giant. He's young tight. Made him leica cardboard with chips plastic chips and talks him that here. You're gonna win a bracing and he travel to rosebud up. I will bracelet of god. Were a mental. That's been a us to two heads up. Does ever i wanted was the first team to win the so. I sat there. I have to write this. I read a story about his his career and send him to him and he said keep you make me cry. This is the best gift that poker player gave me. So i told you okay them. You know you like you have to write and interaction for my book. So we have the interaction of damian silas. It's perfect due to to. They grew not to marketing and to its So it was like like like the final push to to go and full-time winterbrook. Yeah it's you know. This is something that i talk about a lot to the folks who take courses when it comes to accountability. It's much harder to not show up when you know you've got this person that's written the intro. You've got this person who story you've written and like they're super pumped than excited emotional about this book being released. Now you got no choice. There's no backing out at this point. You got to get it done right exactly now and i think it's the perfect time to to write a book if you will want because must facilitate saul. You can write your manuscripts war on whatever you program you can upload to amazon and you have your book in two or three days and amazon sell it to all the world so the system works perfectly. Mike duffin from spain. It bought the other day up his for for for his friends and received him the other. An and i never do do any so. I must work so i know you. You wanted to write a book so it's time to my friend i. I won't many things to be honest with you i want. I want many things i've created. I've created this point five courses. And i think i wanna create at least five to ten more. I want to write a book. I wanna have a daily show. I want to travel around steaks and like have chasing. Poker greatness retreats and workshops and meet ups. I wanna play on live streams. And so many things. I wanna make more youtube content for wanting things to do now. But maybe i think the idea is like a cynic have great guests in your show great players so maybe like the the best dancers or the best thoughts and you can make like a compilation from more than the learning of the great booker players. I think he's very good idea. Yeah i so it's funny. You should say that. Because i've had the same idea i'm actually getting a lot of my episodes transcribed and then once transcription processes sort of wrapping up. I think that's low hanging fruit for releasing a compilation book just full of greatness bombs from all my gas kind of put together and wrapped in a nice package. I think that's that's that's a great idea and something that i always say this i was. This is how i get myself in trouble. I don't think it would be too much work. But every time i say that about any project it's always way more work than i ever imagined. It would be now now. It's work obviously escort. But when you have your own book in your hands and like all the great feedback. It's it's you you you my. My advice is colbrad and compile it. Yes it'll come it will come eventually. Hopefully hopefully in the near future within the next couple of years would be good any other stories that resonate with you What about your co author. What's your what's a story that really resonates with you and you think that would listener would enjoy. Won't he began writing but like short tails during the pandemic and one of them was very popular and the name was. Do you remember when we were happy and and he wrote about nostalgia off like tuck a touching cards cheap because here we we were like eight months without clay and without seeing france so the the state was very popular in social media. And i told him. Hey you should compile or this and right shampoo and he answered me now alone. I will not do it. Come with me right more stories by yourself and together we can. We can create these books that was lesser year. And now we have the book finished. But i never admit it's like a friend. All what saab all talk. But i never met face to face. Yeah that's that's a very emotional title. Do you remember when we were happy. Exactly yeah i while you said that you know it kind of struck a chord with me because i i remember the first time i played poker with a bunch of my employees are not employees with co workers at applebee's got together and played like fifty no limit or twenty five no limit or something with those bicycle chips that were very light and we probably didn't even know how like the buttons worked or anything like that but i remember playing and i think i won like one hundred bucks or something and that was the first time that had ever played poker live for actual money and it. I remember it very clearly. I remember the first time. I've played in carter. It was at the daytona kennel club. Two dollar limit and that was it on all streets just two dollars so like no like no one to yeah all white chips and you know like i remember that like it was yesterday and just like it was awesome. It was amazing and something that you a feeling. That doesn't really happen that much anymore. For way higher stakes in live poker and even online. You know. i think there's something really great about the first time in high emotions just amazing amazing memories. It's nice nice memory. Happy memories that you're always remember. Yeah always. I'm gonna add that question to chasing book greatness. The way the story the first time you play poker. Yeah one one of your questions here in the part Inspired me to write your story. Because the yeah amy educating declare and i took Cardboard what what what the phrases to put it in cardboard a poker room and i listed like six things. I can reach rhythm. Sure go ahead. The frac- sar. I wait a second. That's the first race. Wait a second. No the first one respect their women's okay. Obviously i have likely two or three paragraphs. But i read only titled chirs respect the women at the table. Second one tweet nice. The dealer third one. Don't make explanations about your moved. Third one for the fish is your friend. Take care of him and the last one. Please don't tell but stories. Six dials. obviously i- i- i- expand each one of the stories because of the awesome. That's that's really good to hear. And i'm glad for the first bullet point of treat women well and treat dealers with respect because this is yeah. It's number one thing that will set me off like a rocket just at the poker table. I just drives me insane face. Yeah you can tell by demeanor just thinking about it. How how much it matters to me. I want in another story. I imagine rounders to. Also i imagine like mike go into play the world series of ninety eight and playing with scotty winning the in the main event so that was nice to write about. How does mike make d do Up to read the book gotta read it. No no spoilers. Spoilers all right said iago so will shift to lightning ground now if you could wave a magic wand change one thing about poker. What would you change. Eliminate the river so no more rivers pocket remember. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah we went into now i think now seriously not by play. Mostly texas holdem. I think they gave me for It's fast is now. I like it allowed. The cash gangster. Tournaments like non in tournaments. Now i won't change anything. Maybe like a the rule that you can make all the rice you want all the reenters you limited to only one or two. I think that maybe like a small change and also to play a candidate. Elmer nine hundred ten handed like much eight hundred. I would look would be my once. I remember in in in a casino. Here on site is playing eleven hundred because they don't have more tables so they put hamish's from twelve eleven plus dealer super awkward. Yeah not very fun. You're like no just sitting on top of other people are there saying of you. It's not not great. I'm totally on board with the aid person to a table too. I mean let's just make it six. I don't care six six. Let's get greetings. Likes skate greedy. Let's play some bax. This is my bread butter billboard all the poker players have to drive past on their way to the casino. What's it say. While plus the six dollars that i mentioned a new one a new one New you hub fun. I think stop acting like a like a raw Super good player. How fun. I think simple and good old up fun playing cards with with with some guys. Maybe you know maybe you don't know but fun and even when you lose try to have fun too because you next stock. Yes have the experience going to the casino. You're interacting with other humans. You know you don't get to win every single time so at least do the best that you can have fun even even when you get. Yeah because you're spending your life force there right. I've said it a billion times but you're spending your life at the casino so you may as well enjoy the time while you're there and it's a game. It's a game for someone a job but it's a game on so i think that even if if it's your job and especially if it's your job then you ought to have fun because you're again you're spending way more of your life than other people are at a card room so you know why why be miserable. I think that's just kind of silly to if you're miserable doing it then maybe consider doing something else. Right agree one hundred percent. What wisdom would you like to share to listeners. Of this show who are hell bent on realizing their poker dreams with them always always learned the game and there's always a new thing to learn that it's always new books new videos new book or styles that you never have to stop learning the game. I think that's keith. To to to have success year always learning the game not only play but like to take some pause analyze. Hands talk with france videos rate booker boobs. They are not outdated. There always new books that that came. You can learn roots. But i think that to always learn the game meats Absolutely he learning just keep studying be specific be precise and study actively too. I think this is another thing that needs to be emphasized. It's like don't just passively. Watch a stream of wbz. or w rowland. Yeah just like you know. Active learning is the way that you learn Which means getting involved using your brain expanding some energy and effort writing things down like looking into pyo talking to other people Thinking about the psychology of the humans. You're playing against studying some data all these things you're right so in the world poker. What's your what's your next goal. I assume it's gonna be get this book out and get it translated english. Their next steps are translation to english. One audiobook algebra book. That term would be harder. Because i think it's great to grinders their online like be playing listening. Some short stories A great combo. So we're we're planning on on that and then writing volume to have some ideas so start writing like the second volume by the time to time. Yeah you're you're talking to somebody that absolutely loves all poker stories. So i'm certainly in your demographic i love i love reading the stories actually more than i like reading like a strategy book. Personally i love the stories. I have some recommendation for you. I know you. Do you have so many recommendations for any of poker. What's a project or working on right now. Besides the book that's near and dear to your heart. Now i'm i buy. I bought my first house. So i'm full of arrangements. Put the grassy in in the paint. It's very golic and very stressed. I think when it's all finished will be like ugly It's my first house on and like to do all the arrangements it might sell son. Imagine how big house will look. It's like it's great very nice project now in my life awesome. Congratulations and thank you. It'll it'll be done before you know it. It seems a seems like a lot. But you'll get you'll get ironed out before you for our to the question that you've been anxiously preparing for this whole time if you could gift all poker books or recommend all all poker players some books to read. I'm gonna give you the latitude to more than one. What would they be. Okay what would you have time like five ten minutes. Yeah sure i will. I select like i three favorite books from each category. So so people can choose between okay. I will start from bucker. Nobles shot up on. Neil by jesse decimate the only to play it be elsom art by jonathan maxwell that cashman players will love that now did they should bring him us. Up looks from main event thinking poker tournament. they'd mary's thinking buckle under brokaw's and the game plan by matt mattress personal experiences achieve mcbrayer. Merwin carlin's vegas or bust. Johnny companies and the biggest laugh the pogo winner. The nagoya booker math the mathematics poker will chen essential poker mass altern harley and math that matters knowing gains bente game and game a fokker jared tender booker with jason sue. I'm the poker mindset. Matthew dealer hager history of her poker pop culture martin. Harris moneymaker effect epic ruskin cowboys full by our friend. James mcmanus he's still made the cut. Nobody exact pug stories. He played for his wife and other stories. The man with the one hundred thousand breasts another stories dead man's hand from no bios one of a kind son annella nella lifestyle gamble mike. Six them on once again. Bler by continent. Gus games all books from miller and small stakes poker customers by jonathan needle on the last ones bike strategy in general play. Optimal poker by broncos char stuck ninja chris wallace. And how can he fall from jonathan louis. I think if you're going to books this and you you have to start with this. Once and a surprisingly high amount of them have come to my path on. Cpg podcast de broke. Us in their focus has been on a couple of times. Poker guys have both been on conoco's on twice so we got. We got a lot of it covered but the novel specifically. I'm interested in those. Because again. When i whenever i check out an looking to kind of just escape from life in the world around me. I think like. I love fictional novels. They're my favorite pastime more than tv and stuff like that so poker novels all right. I think i'm willing to give one and try your should john maxwell it's the book with most worker hands each has like one hundred poker hands because the town it's always got against and and and the author writes on hand so i think he is. It's rate i lo- it coleman. I'll be sure to check it out. And while we before we shut down shop here any parting words that you would like to add and then the final question is going to be where the chasing poker greatness listener find more about you on the worldwide web. Okay the second part. You can find me in georgia in twitter facebook and instagram. I'm the one who money all social media so they went answer. It's me so it's maurici than my my. My personal handles on the first question was any parting words before we shut it down. You know it's that maybe it's time to to do what you like and try to to to became your dreams to. Maybe it's writing a book or maybe a project the to to put the energy in do it. I think that it. It's the time on where we need to to to try. At least to became our dreams fashions our objectives through so come on the effort. Put the hours and know it very well said and not everybody not everybody. I think will be a winning poker player where poker crusher in their life but we all have different gifts and different talents and there are other ways other ways we can keep poker near and dear to our hearts and perfect way to close down this episode santiago. Thank you very much for your time. And your energy. It's been a pleasure having you. And i'm sure i'll be talking to you again in the near future. Thanks to choosing greatness. You can subscribe when apple podcasts. More on your favorite podcast abc go chasing boca greatness dot com to get the newsletter joined. The greatness village community book a coaching session or dive into the latest data driven poker courses. Follow the show on twitter at cpg podcast.

santiago argentina tiago garcia eric sidell Brad wilson boettger booker las vegas Sidell Fokker buysc lansky gaskins twitter tokar jonathan eric Balodia astor amazon mataya
NFL Preseason Week 1 Reaction, Key Injury Updates

Fantasy Focus Football

1:00:33 hr | 2 months ago

NFL Preseason Week 1 Reaction, Key Injury Updates

"So welcome today's fantasy focus. You can watch us. Every weekday and eleven am eastern time on espn twitter facebook and youtube fees as well as the espn app. And if you're listening to the audio feed today's podcast is presented by geico. You can download fantasy focus wherever you catch your podcast with that. We say hello on this monday. August sixteenth field and matthew. Here as always putt a welcomed return from the star herself to find your bells back. Star your bell after weeks in bora bora. I'm here's my question. And i have a question for you because i was looking i was looking and i could not find ask away. I'm sure you have many questions. Well i i was looking dangled to know the answer. This i wanted the star. Fine abell twenty 2021 boondoggle tour t shirt trying to look for and i did not is the shop not open yet. Where where can i buy the t shirt that has all the all the dates that you went to all the boondoggle ing. You went to the cute little graphic. Like i'd like an extra large and then i was also thinking bath wanted a tank top death. I brought a travel gift back for. You know that of course understood the boondoggle tour. Like i just. I'm just saying like you know like you. You know you you want. The merch emerged from the tour. The boondoggles door has ever come to a training camp. Was you know this is all a guys they had. Xfl nfl europe. She'd be like yeah. I gotta go to spend a couple of weeks boston when hawaii and the season's over is like i need a month it is really interview. Everyone you're giving me some good ideas. And i think got to write these down here in a lot of people like the stop and of course she was at training camp. And i'm like maybe or maybe she's not prove. Because here's the thing like if you follow to. Espn on instagram. Like i do yes not since my benet photos has there been any more brutal Punishment of that platform has there been a more more. It's basically what i think she did was choose like some resort and then like she was like oh by the way by the way. The colts training like four miles away. And she's like hang on. Let me put my my tie down and let me sort of goals and and then zooms in for like some grainy photos like otheir. There's actually there's marlin mac running along. Okay good god bingo bango. Bring me the lobster. Yes i think what actually happened was that she was whatever she was wherever. She was born. Four bali australia. I don't even know if getting australia right now. Citizen but whatever with it again yes and then someone was like. Oh yeah you're supposed to be cantonese teenager. Run up to the chain link fence around the facility and bats why. The photos were so low grade because the kid has taken a photo from eighty yards away right. But that's why it's such poor quality you guys pick out the window. Nobody said anything about my george. Kill photo which was up super close and it was fantastic hoping to close close. Or maybe about mijo borough photo. But here's the thing. Let me just remind you season breaking jokes. Aside kids there are different parameters for when media ten training camp this year. So you're often on the far side of the field. And i can only zooming on just so much but i'm trying to find yourself as media what they want that. We just bear the headline finding yourself media royalty media royalty fight as it gives us gives me hall of famer favor. She's a favor. It's it's very very useful. People love star. Fine you with good reason. Yeah all right so we'll get to two volumes candidate. Because she was all over the map we give her a hard time but she's a great job traveling around the country literally taking in some of the sights and sounds from a variety of camp. We're going to pick her brain and what she learned from. Patrick mahomes to players of less high-calibre patrick mahomes during her two weeks on the road. It's great to have her back but we're going to start to start is look back on the week. That was in the nfl. We had two games. thursday night. We had one game sunday and then we had what two games friday. There was a bunch of games on saturdays launching a lot of football football. Yes we hit. It was great. It's good to have back and we're going to properly react right. We're not going to overreact. Not gonna react no seriously though percent. We have homes or justin fields at accused telling you this for a long time fan. Who's faster right. Justin field backfield's but no listen. I think more so than any other treaty. No but mo- more and i'm not. I'm very much including myself in this bucket. Yes sir i think more so than anything else when it comes to overreactions of their two ways in which we overreact collectively as football fans during the preseason one is to quarterback play for better or worse in two is fantasy thoughts right like some things do prove to be relevant and true other. Things are much more blips on the radar now. It's always difficult to figure out which ones are blips on the radar which one of them are built to last. Maybe for you not for me. I have the definitive answers right. Just ask me okay bingo bango. let's do it then so we're going to be. I don't think i've ever been wrong like just seriously. I know i know i know. I know you're a move here. Kill times is right i. I don't know what you're talking about nine lives. You're a cat anyways. Let's get really crushed where i would have really crushed in terms of fantasy analysis before the before the internet before there was any digital record exactly gig to get as much as we can be game by game not too much a little bit because again. We want to make sure that we are properly reacting so. The bears did beat the dolphins twenty thirteen on saturday. And i think on the bear side. There's no mystery as to what the biggest story of the day was matthew. Justin field to start off slow in the first half was not much to write home about and then pick things up and got things going. In a major way which included the row throwing touchdown to jesse james. On wide open throwback play and then rushing touchdown from just field. It felt like that was sort of for those that believe in justin field during the process. Saturday was a little bit of a mirror. Image of what you had hoped to see from him based off what he saw what you saw it state it was. Yeah listen i worked parts of it. Were great exactly. But i look i think the biggest thing is you sort of like for lack of a better way to put it. You get it. Like i mean. You saw enough there in terms of anticipation in terms of timing. In terms of like the touchdown run was really a thing of beauty. it was not designed ron. it was him making something out of nothing And there was enough there that you go like. Oh oh i get it but you get the excitement for justin fields. And with all due respect to. Andy dalton justin fields brings a different elect element of diana system. Is that a word. Is that dynamic schism than an schism. Yeah yeah thanks princeton lately. So but whatever breeze it brings a different dynamic dynamic. That's never a doubt daniel. Thanks guys so anyway. He brings a different dynamic than andy. Dalton does and it's so my friend. Peter overs at recent justin fields is inevitable. And i think that's correct. I think that's i don't know when justin field starts field but he's gonna and i think it sooner rather than later and honestly it probably should be game one. I don't know that it's going to be probably should be game one. It probably should be game one. I think it might be a little bit later than that. But when they will say is that. I know you commented. I believe on shefty's instagram. About how like if you knew he was going to be a week. One starter you would have him at the top twelve quarterback easy. I think it's important to note though. That like i believe the foundation of that thought is not what you saw on saturday. It's actually what you saw during his two seasons as a starting quarterback at ohio state saturday was. I don't know about total confirmation. Because again i mean he. No one was perfect in the preseason. He had a couple of the. All of the rookies had some shaky. Moments couldn't justin fields early. But you saw why. The bears were enamored by the player. I do think that a certain deference to andy dalton but if justin feels is starting quarterback sooner rather than later He's going to be a player. We discuss ask them this season. He certainly needs to be drafted. And he's not really. He's been so far and drafts. That have happened. He's undrafted seventy percent leagues and like this guy. That point is going to be like the hottest waiver pickup of the year. and and case. Is it worth getting ahead of the curve. Them in this case. I think it depends on. How competitive your league is. And i mean like if you're an attend team one quarterback league maybe not depends on again if like you're filled with sharks if you're if it's more of a casual league so it sort of depends but at some point there's going to be a massive rush. The waiver wire for justin fields. What it will tell you. It's a fantasy friendly offense. He obviously has tremendous skill with his legs as well. So a dual threat quarterback. And then you add allen robinson who was out there by the way guess it was as i start my good defense like he was not good against their starters. That was that's been part of the narrative is like this happened once. The dolphins defense that we know correct was no longer on the field. So i'm excited. Like i don't wanna poo poo the performance. But you know there's a little bit of context important again jail last when we want very quickly but last year jalen hurts started. Four games at the end of the year right. He was bad from an nfl standpoint. He completed less than fifty two percent of his passes. He was the ninth best quarterback and fantasy over those four weeks. Yeah the rushing ability that justin fields has plus. I think he's a better passer than jalen hurts to give one example and the weapons around him. I mean this is a team that the bears last year with nick foles mitch. Trubisky were top. Ten in pass attempts like matt nagy likes to throw and they've got some nice offensive weapons around justin fields. I hear you. he's again may not always be pretty but he will absolutely put up big fantasy points once. he's the starter in chicago. If you're towards the back end of your league in terms of getting your first quarterback i actually like the idea of pairing. Let's say a matthew stafford or ryan tannehill with another young quarterback who's got significant upside whether it's a trailer we'll talk about shortly or just field on the other side of the ball matthew. I know you were house going top ten though. Just you know by the way at this point. If you're at the end of your savings and then you might be yes totally home so you don't need a draft us fields. My point fair enough. Malcolm brown was busy for the dolphins on saturday. Man eight yards so not exactly a miraculous performance from oh brown but he was playing with the ones for much of the time that he was out there and also miles. Gaskin was playing with the twos or part of the time that he was a little bit a little bit. Okay look like there's an argument that says like they know what they have in miles gaskins they wanna see what they got out of malcolm brown but then i don't know why i haven't been fine. If gaskin hadn't played with the twos he came in jacoby. Perset came in. He was playing with it touts after the game after the game. Brian floors coached. The dolphins said all three guys meaning brown gaskin and savan. Bed are all going to be involved that they like all three guys. All guys will be involved this season. Malcolm brown is a good pass protector. He's a solid veteran. He's not a guy that fumbles he's also like a plotter i mean. He looked like he was moving in mud. Right i mean as you mentioned nine yards on eight carries or whatever it was. It's pretty clear that teams see something malcolm brown just like reliable right. The rams had him they used infrequently even when they had todd gurley last year he had two touchdowns in the first game of the season the lions tried to sign him away from the rams and user restricted free agent at the rams match that contract when they had tug early on the massive deal. Miami bring him aboard this off season so clearly. He's got some traits that coaches value more than we as fancy managers value. That's correct and so i'm a big miles gaskin fan. I've talked about on the show and and this is concerning. My belief is ultimately that miles. Gaskins talent will win out here and that if you're choosing a running back for fantasy purpose to start from the dolphins it's still going to be miles gaskin again. He's going to be much more involved in the passing game then. Then malcolm brown is. He's a nice pass catcher. But you can't see that kind of usage and not be a little bit concerned especially Gaskins when going among the top twenty running backs like gaskins. Adp needs to drop at least somewhat. I dropped him a few spots. My rankings not crazy but now he's in the twenty to twenty five range as opposed to. I think i had him at eighteen prior to this game not concerned because i think look if malcolm does get some run at the beginning of the season it's going to be like you know the short wickham right. It's going to burn out quick and they're going to be like okay. Let's let's just cut to the chase here. One of these players dynamic one of them is as you said a lot less dynamic and the dolphins ultimately need that dynamism. Yeah word borrow. Wet clay phrase. Yeah cream rises as will happen in the miami backfield. I really quickly want to talk about. I didn't move moving down a little bit. Because there will be some bolstering. But i do i do think miles gaskin is a viable player and miles. Gaskin will will be part of my love. Hate list which comes out. Tomorrow take publishes tomorrow heads up and it'll be free. Yes just speaking of dynamics. I know rondo more is a guy field that you are a big fan of and actually you put out a tweet about run more. I kinda wanted to show that here on our screen. If you don't mind if you want to let the people know what you tweeted. I don't ask for much in life with fifteen touches a game rhonda more will be tremendous. That'd be great during the cowboys and cardinals. Game on friday nights and rondo moore was one of the few players on arizona's offense you recognize. That was out there. No marino deandre hopkins zoe jay green among other players and he looked great. I mean no surprise right so the question though with rhonda more is going to be two things reminded me of what i saw from the viscous. Chenault on saturday as well. Is that so rhonda. More is tiny. We all know that but he is. He's a piece of dynamite right. He is explosive is all get out. There are two things that concern me for rondell more and fantasy one is whether the cartels will be committed enough to actually get him the requisite touches for him to be fantasy relevant week over week and like they got five on it. Felt like oh my god. He was so busy like are they going to get him fifteen touches a game because no not the problem is this and this is my viscous. Nothing that i was thinking about. When i was watching the way they used him on saturday night. Is that like there may be zero air yards for rondell more it might be negative air yardage which unless you're playing in like the san francisco offense that just cr- everything is yards after catch. It feels like inside well not everything was. We'll talk about freelances bomb and a few minutes but a lot of their offense is run after. Catch it just hard. To have big fantasy superstars in that offense. I want the player to be thing. Just a little concerned. I don't know doctors. Here's what i'm gonna tell you. I think he's going to be a much better. Nfl player mini is going to be fantasy asset. At least this season. Yeah do. I like i think it was a nice draft. Pick by the cardinals. Do i think clip kingsbury will be creative with him. I do too. i think he helps kyla. Murray i do but you sort of think about that offense that goes four wide five wide sometimes as well so many players are on the field and then as you mentioned no christian kirk know. Aj green no deandre hopkins a chase. Edmunds is chairman. And james caan are going to demand the ball like there's so many mouths to feed. And we know that. The andre hopkins the dog again four consistent fantasy production out of rondell more. I'm not sure. I see it honestly. I'm not sure. I see it for anyone. In arizona in terms of consistency production outside of hopkins murray and the running backs and just to put on that point about zero air yards. He had four targets on friday for a total of seven areas. I was being a little bit hyperbolic but the point is that most of his damage going to be done. Line scrimmage secret squirrel. I don't know if you saw that tweet that you put up there if you just field. Yates said on twitter. He says. I don't ask for much in life and i would like to take issue with that. I disagree with that. i mean like. Let's think about all the things that field yates. What's like craft beer time with cisco cisco time on then tucker with chepe Absolutely free clothes. From everyone i know is fields. Got eight billion friends and seven point. Nine billion of them are closed designers because they constantly stanfield stuff. He's always natalie dressed and giving shout outs on the graham so in terms of like when you say you don't ask for much i disagree. I think you ask for a long thing is like. I don't ask for much whether things come my way or not so different story. I don't ask for much projecting rejecting here. I do much feel very upsetting right. Exactly yeah there you go four dollars. Forty niners lost to the chiefs the season over after my nineteen sixteen on on friday night to find you. But it's defined you try it. Lands did of course coming early jimmy. Garoppolo started the game for the forty. Niners what did you see a tray lands. Other than that eighty yard touchdown bomb sherfield. I actually think what i saw from him in camp was more telling than even what you saw on in the game. I think look. We've talked about on the podcast already. Like what's going to happen is jimmy. You're going to be the starter or are they going to give it to trae lance. When's it going to happen. And that was the buzz in camp and it was the buzz among the media is well how shanahan at this point is joking about it so when he spoke to us after practice one day he said freelance is going to play this year. And then it goes. Okay a let everyone run to twitter on that you know kinda knowing this would be the story. But he's clearly have designed packages for him. They were working on separate red zone offense drills with him for niners have not been good in the red zone for a couple of years. Everybody knows that they are making packages specific to is talents. But i think they understand also he's raw and they he needs time on the field and cow shannon and really wanted to see how he reacted to a real opposing defense in this game and there were struggles but there was also this beautiful deep ball something that we haven't seen in a long time so i do still feel like after spending a couple of days at niners camp that jimmy jesus starter. Shanahan's mind because if you start trae lands how do you go back. Is the question. So i think as long as nothing happens to really destabilize that they start with him but lance will be in the wings cl- nipping at his heels. And if there's an opportunity for trae lance to become the starter he becomes a so recently. Matthew is on the adam schefter podcast which was a great listen. New episodes usually come out on mondays. And you guys talked on a couple of occasions about how you got to follow the money right. Yeah and sometimes you got to follow the money in different directions The only thing that. I'm curious about the forty niners. Is that if jimmy garoppolo is on their roster saturday at four pm before their first game of the season gets twenty five million dollars guaranteed like feels like a lot of money if he's a backup quarterback by week four ton of money and maybe they feel like he's just too valuable that even if trae lands takes over early if something happens to trade down the stretch respond to it sure because i think there is a huge dropoff between one two and three and the forty niners and one of the things that happened. I understand about the money and i. Don't you know the balance sheet system better than i do. But i will tell you this one of the things. The forty niners have learned kyle. Shanahan and john lynch in particular is that they have to have depth at their positions. Because they've don't so many injuries. So what happens if you invest everything and trae lance and then he gets hurt. Your drop off is huge. I just i. Don't i third string quarterback for the forty niners exactly. Yeah no. But i'm asking know exactly i understand. I understand that his name is mr exactly exactly. Yeah cornerback exactly exact- exactly exactly. Yes in texas. Says mr exactly by the way son's like like a bad character. Russell wilson might do on twitter mystery exactly nine and sierras donna. Let's workshop that a little bit like a gif of that police. Yes yes please mr invincible. Or whatever right yeah. I'm mister earliest probably right. Better than josh rosen. It's easier by the way. I like counts. It's a lot easier for like. I don't i don't i don't empathize with owners when they have to pay a big bill like the printing billion so i'm not like totally concerned about the bottom line. I'm just saying the football business. Endpoint insurance policies are nice. Twenty five million dollar insurance policies are substantial. But but if you're going to the super bowl it's worth it. That's that's the thing we had this argument you know earlier in the year on this podcast. The forty niners. I think not that they'll ever publicly say this but it's sort of look in the mirror time for the forty niners in terms of like do we think we have a legit shot at the super bowl this year or do we not because it's one of those things it's like. Do they think they can win a soup superbowl contenders and they're not rebuilding. And i think that that would be. My guess is how they feel building right then. Then it's like okay. What quarterback gives them the best chance at winning a super bowl and do they think they can get there with a rookie quarterback who by the way doesn't have a ton of experience in college played a game in two years right out played one game line game last year. Played a game in two years right. So it'll be interesting to see so yeah. There was some excitement from trae lance as it was founded on the graphic here. Even right i mean took four sacks on the ball along was not helped by his hands of his receivers But trae lance Seems like he's going to eventually take that job and probably sooner than later in san francisco last thought from that game and we make this really quick any thoughts at all in trae sermon. He ran the ball nine times for twenty six yards. No excuse me. no brahim. Most aren't on saturday nights. They were definitely playing their backups. For most of the evening trae somebody else that will make the loveliest when it comes out tomorrow. Just you know okay so like look. I like where he most quite a bit but we. Here's the things we know. The forty niners run. The can run the ball very very well. The whoever the starting running back for the forty niners is. We'll be fantasy relevant. They use a lot of guys there but given the injury. History of the other players in san francisco and trae sermons talent and sort of how his skill set fits the kind of scheme that shanahan runs. I think trae sermon especially given current. Adp is very much worth fire. He's i like. I like trade sermon. Credit backfield though. I still think we're he had been undervalued. I we're gonna come back. I've talked about a couple more takeaways from the first week of the preseason. But i do own or rent your home. Sure you do. I bet it can be hard work. But you know it's easy bundling policies with geico geico makes it easy to bundle your homeowner's renter's insurance along with your auto policy. It's a good thing too because you already have so much to do around your home. Geiko dot com. Get a quote and see how much you could save. It's gyco easy visit. Geico dot com. Today that's geico dot com. Football is almost here. And there's no better place to get in on the action than with draftkings. The leader in one day fantasy sports as the seasons quickly approaching draftkings. 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That's code f f f only at draftkings minimum five dollar deposit required eligible restrictions apply. See dr king's dot com for details matthew berry. I hate to interrupt here. Is the thing that normally you do on this podcast. However i would like to say feel gates did one time ask for blue apron. My friend kurt vendor mass tells me as a part of this show. Let's not forget the only for the beer. Kurt love you buddy. Yeah sorry. I asked for one thing. Bank that's good point. You just never gets no support on this podcast. Basically so. I wanted to give him a little heat. You you've asked for world peace last for like you know to end hunger you know you cancer research exactly what he wants to fight. Fight cancer research looking pretty producer. Throwing you under the bus field. Yates wants to fight cancer. Research stop stops studying dancer. My favorite part week anyway. In dot org dot org always a worthwhile. My favorite part of the weekend was mike zimmer. Who addressed who did a halftime interviews. He was walking back from halftime to begin the second half of their game against the denver broncos go to at field. Yates twitter and watch. It is a thirty second clip. And i laugh. I love my zimmer. He called it how he sees it. They got smacked by the broncos over and in part. Because the broncos quarterbacks both look good let's table that talk for right now and get into what you may or may not have seen from devante williams mathew. He was out there because melvin. Gordon did not play at all but he had five cares for twenty nine yard. what was more instructive. How he looked the fact that melvin gordon wasn't playing the fact that mellon gordon wasn't i agree by the way i mean. The vikings defense might be bad this year like we were nothing nobody out there though man i understand but i mean the broncos didn't have a tie i mean thirty three six. We'll see we'll see. I'm just saying the. Vikings defense was brutal last year and this was a poor effort regardless of the fact that they didn't have starters out there. I mean the pick. Six which means from jake browning. Yeah no but what i would say about devante williams. This is my take on. Devante williams this year for this Devante williams going to be this year's camakers and that's what i here's what i like that a lot okay. What happened with camakers last year. Camakers was drafted like in the fourth round four between the fourth and sixth round last year and he was an awful draft. Pick right because not all camakers fault but he got a little bit banged up but there was a committee there yet. Malcolm brown daryl henderson took over the job for a while. There camakers was brutal draft pick for the majority of the season people that had him he was dropped in a lot of leagues but then week fourteen he. He ended up getting the starting job and he was just an absolute beast down the stretch. Anyone a lot of people fantasy titles could down the stretch. I liked that call. And i think that's what's going to happen with john. Adams devante williams. I think he's going to be overdrafted. I think people are going to be frustrated. Because melvin. gordon's a starter. There is player to write. Melvin gordon is like whatever. We'll to your point. Melvin gordon has not quote lost it yet. You know there's contract issues. And i don't know if he's on denver next year. But melvin. gordon is a good player and he will be productive for the broncos and get a decent amount of work this year and by the way mike. Boone got banged up to but i betcha they use mike boon so the point is drawn. Williams is going to be a committee for a long time. But if you look at the end of the season schedule for the broncos it's ridiculous it's a really great schedule fantasy wise. And i think by the end of the year devante williams will take over that backfield mobile girdles to be still be around but i do think williams will sort of be camakers like and that he will be very frustrating for fantasy managers. For much of the season. he'll be overdrafted. But towards the end of the year i think is going to help a lot of teams that could be part due to what happens with the broncos win loss wise writer more competitive. I think melvin. Gordon presumably as a running well and be will stay out there if this is a six and nine team and the chiefs and the charger. Leaving the raiders. Making playoff pushes may be time to take a youth moon because melvin gordon will be a free agent. After this upcoming season we got about ten minutes to rip through the rest of these games here. Matthew solicitor in with the cleveland browns who base complete. Nobody that no other than once they talk about the second but anything about the jaguars offense that gave you. Excitement than you thought was a noticeable any major takeaways from trevor lawrence. Here's what also. I still think you mentioned you. Think where he most it's being undervalued jane robinson james robinson. But i mean the the running back situation's a little bit weird. Okay i think marvin and then we're gonna talk to but i'm i think marvin jones is an a massive value in fantasy leagues this year. He looked good. He had a bunch of impressive catches. He's a professional right. I i think that's such a lane cliche to throw out. Sometimes throw around sometimes but it was clear like they have plenty of young talent amongst that wide receiver group. They needed a guy. Who's been there done. That too can show him. How do feel essential. Marvin jones says that for them. That's correct and i think trevor lawrence leaning on that veteran of course marvin jones reunited with darryl bevill. Who was the offense coordinator in detroit. Marvin jones was a top twenty fantasy wide receiver under bevill and their one year together in detroit and much like a lot of people. Marvin jones looking good outside of detroit. You escape the lions franchise and then why it happens tons of sag just baton success. I mean it just. It just feels like you know the detroit. Lions are like the the atom of nfl team just like sort of wine. Do you ever think about the fact that the washington football team once had on its offensive staff. Sean mcvay matlock floor. Well kyle shanahan correct wall now amongst others. How with those guys play zero one play. They made the they made one. They made the playoffs one year. The play offs. That was the seattle game that was the that was the that was the game that rg three tours knee and they all left in liquor there. Let's see how shan west in the super bowl back back and ship jay if what you're saying greener pastures if you're telling me here's to find if your point of bringing this up. Is that the person that was in charge of football operations. At that time bruce. Allen did not do a good job. I agree with you. I have been very clear in saying that. I think bruce. Allen is the worst general manager in the history. Professional sports wow. I've said that i've been very clear about that. He was very frustrating Off with that million in icy. Thank you for that species team. But bruce allen was lying esque. We're going to let. Let's say i mean detroit lion. Let me ask for us to miniature. He'll pick up the tempo here. What do you say. Roy quickly to to everyone listening to it's a fan of the detroit lions. Just you know that's entirely about making daniel uncomfortable and not about the lions organization lauren's lines organization. They have a lot of great people that work. There it's just more about trying to torture daniel arguably the best live show on our show. History was in detroit. Detroit show with a few a few other notes from that game. One sean. i talked about it. Like i really like levinsky chenault is an explosive guy. I just wish he was not catching every pass at the leonard sandwich. I think he's going to be rondell more. I mean again like somebody that makes them really big play and he's going to be right. He's is going to be really good. Nfl player and he's gonna have some big games when in terms of consistent fantasy value. I'm not sure where there yet also interested donovan. Jones have a big game here again. Brown's weren't playing anyone but he might be the third wide receiver over higgins in cleveland. He's an interesting name to keep an eye on especially for two thousand twenty two because odell beckham junior and jarvis landry are names that were putting the cart before the horse but people have wondered as the browns have to pay guys like baker mayfield and denzel ward and myles garrett and all the other. Good players quiet taylor. Are they going to have to move on from us. From other pieces that are higher pay towards some of their roster. The ravens continue their trend. Winning preseason games. They've won eighteen straight. Preseason games i have no idea what to make of that. Probably nothing. We'll talk about the saints who they beat in terms of their entire quarterback situation more on double trouble but i had basically no takeaway from this game. None famous have. I have something to add about the ravens just so i think people should pay attention to sammy. Watkins left practice early today with an athletic trainer. That from jameson. Hensley are ravens reporter. Keep in mind that that means they had none of their top. Three white outs available for the last half of practice. You've got marquees brown out with a hamstring. You've got rishaad. Bateman out with a groin injury for which he had surgery. And you can't imagine that they're gonna rush him back and then. Lamar jackson obviously missed the first couple weeks of practice because he was dealing with cove. My question is how instinct could this offense possibly be when they finally get together started. See what they're gonna do is they're going to snap the ball to. Jk dominance on every play. And then just a team to follow up and say that it's not just point martinez to two two quick takeaways from this. Just one line if you're drafting a saints wide receiver. It's markes calloway. He's had a very hot camp at a nice game here as well if tastes him. Hill is the starter for the saints. And he started this game piece. Him hill is named the you know the week one starter. He's a massive value fantasies. You know this is a guy that was the four weeks that he was a starter last year. He was a top to- fantasy quarterback he's going undrafted in fantasy leagues right now. Because they don't know about james winston and michael. Thomas injury hurts a little. Bit but again rushing quarterbacks have fantasy value if they basically said like tasting meals are guy like that's a massive value and fantasy leagues because again he's being undrafted in. Espn leagues. and i do think marquez is kind of an interesting adams list of late. Round flyers. the bills just narrowly squeak by the lions sixteen. Fifteen with the late feel gold to win the game my big takeaway from this one. Is it a mantra saint brown. We joke about it. We've had a couple of opportunities to throw meant as a just goofy line in this podcast. Looks good. he might wind up being the most valuable blinds wide. Receiver right away this year. Which i suppose is not that bold of statement. Look good. I think they believe intentionally found player that could be a useful piece sooner rather than later keeping really short. It's tough because permanent place. We didn't even get him. Tyrone williams had a couple nice catches from jared goff. I'm on raw saint branded as well didn't have the andrea swift or tj hopkinson. So it's tough to be able to take away. But he ran hard when he when he got those catches field. I'm on raw saying brown. Like he's he's a physical little guy and part of the preseason. That's unique as you get to listen to the broadcast teams from the local market and the lions talked on a couple of different occasions about how impressed the staff has been with them on raw. Saint brown not like impressed like four fourth round rookie. But flick a player. They might need to start sooner rather than later. Devon terry played a bunch with no zach moss on the field. He ran eight times for forty two yards. He looks like devin single. Dare to me shifty. He can make guys miss he small. He's going to be useful. The big question is whether he's going to have enough touch equity as we discussed last week on trump. No he's somebody that never root for this. But he needs zach moss to play for in the game for whatever reason to have consistent fantasy value last last one here. i'll give. He is good insurance. If you drop sack moss. I'll give you the floor here and you get to make take one take away because if you look at the rest of the games really really limited. I think sort of names of note. The jets beat the giants. Texans beat the packers chargers. Beat the rams my biggest takeaway from that game is that munich times crush. It in the booth Anything else from those games or in her pants for the record. They both brushed anything from those games. Matthew do to quick one lines. I think corey davis again. We just talk about sort of professionals. Like how much fantasy value is there in the jets but drafting and say yes. I i do think if drafting we talked about allies lot more again sort of wait to see but for week. One reaction corey davis. I thought got an impressive impressive target chair and we've talked about this on double trouble last week as well. If you're drafting a texans running back. It's philp linzie. it's not david johnson. Philp linzie five cares for fourteen yards. He had like. I think four times as many touches as david johnson. Sharp looks like philip linzie and last quick before we get into agree with that. I feel the same way. I feel the same way last week. I don't know that i love. The idea of drafting any texan besides brain cooks this year. But if one running back the chance to have a thousand rushing yards it's philip. Lindsay was done at two out of his three seasons in the nfl all five first round rookie. Quarterback's gave their teams and their fan. Base is reasons for optimism. going forward. we're going to find his takeaways in just a moment but first we start with a word from our friends at corona. But you know the tony. Romo is a motivational speaker. 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That's the number five hour energy dot com and get some five hour energy product. Today you can use the promo code f f f to receive ten percents off your order. This offer is only valid until september. Thirtieth on one order cannot be used with other promotions. The code is not good on subscription. Orders go to five hour energy dot com today all right time for the part of the podcast. Everybody has been looking forward to is our opportunity to pick the very large brain of stephania bell about what happened over the past. Couple of weeks and stephania this john. Thune dog'll twenty twenty one again. Is your favorite caviar aides to find you and how expensive how how cheap. It was the most expensive bottle of wine. You drink my question to helping me out with that. One of the great things about try like i posted a couple of times. Do you think this glamorous but you're getting in late at night and the only thing is open around you or fast food or no food You know it's but i. I have friends all over the country because i've lived a lot of fun. You have seen our newest colleague. Alex smith of course joining the espn alex. Here as part of part of espn comeback player of the year of the century of the decade of Forever alex smith survive. I just wanna know what was of all the names you made up for your expense reports that you. I'm just curious. What was your favorite one that was. That's my question. Are you saying for like when she took someone to dinner or yeah. No no no when you take someone to dinner. If it's a business thing you have to have a per se. I look out from this company. i had everybody else. Take me to dinner okay. Big brains to find him made as well. Let's be a whole good list of fake names if you ever need 'em doubt oh man. Let's begin to city patrick. Mahomes one of the first players that we want to discuss. What did you learn or see from patrick. Mahomes who of course is coming off of off season surgery. I really think this should have been made a bigger deal than it was. But it's a credits patrick. That it wasn't he just played through a toe injury. Remember he was diagnosed with turf toe. We heard about that. You saw him struggling at times during the super bowl he wasn't himself couldn't push off. That toe had a pretty big surgery to repair the planner plate in the ligaments. Underneath the base of the big toe but looks exactly like the patrick mahomes. We've come to love. And i thought one of the things i noticed at camp is your outside kind of far away from the players at this point but you can hear that distinctive voice in the command. He has in the huddle. You know it was really something just to watch him. Live and practice something. I haven't done since he's joined the team. The other thing. I noticed jerk mckinnon now a chief and they created some red zone packages for him. It appears so something to watch. Okay maybe jeremy can carver role on this chiefs. Roster who's not super super deep in the backfield of course all of us. Had patrick mahomes ranked first amongst quarterbacks had. I'm sorry mahomes. How do you spell that. He sounds like somebody i should. He should be on my radar. Probably by the way you knew this stop camp. And that day tyreek hill of practice early with knee tendinitis and i thought oh no. I thought i told you go. This is going to be blamed for everything by byron pringle. And that was that was a touchdown by the way this week did pretty good fastest. Ha i probably should have lowered it. Like hey real talked to like an assistant athletic trainer like that's it right like you know. Yeah exactly hey real no real talk for one second though to bring up the point about the red zone packages for jerk. Mckinnon one of the concerns for me about clyde edwards allaire. This season is not only daryl williams who they like and pass protection who played well last year but also jerk mckinnon. Who has been getting some buzz from beat reporters about looking good and looking healthy. It's been a long time since we've seen mckinnon on the football field but find seeing the fact that looked good looked healthy. They're using him. Like the argument for clyde edwards layer is that he is the guy in the best offense in football or one of the best offenses and football. And if he isn't the guy even if he's getting seventy percent or sixty like that's tough because obviously they obviously have many many weapons in kansas city and they prove last year actually don't need to run the ball and to make the super bowl. No one's talked about this at all to find selects breaks break into it now for the first time dak prescott dallas cowboys been dealing with this shore sore shoulder and the team and there's a lot of attention. I believe it was thursday. Night tweeted not reason to be concerned. No need to panic but dak prescott is going for a follow up. M are you joined me on. Espn radio yesterday. I thought that really good job of explaining how despite the fact it's an mri which normally carries a sorta scary connotation really is no reason to be concerned. Why is that. And what's the latest on deck so the reason to not be concerned with this type of injury hasn't latte strain. That's what's kept him out of practice after the last couple of weeks. Is that serial imaging where they do consecutive images as somebody's progressing through. An injury is not uncommon. Because it's basically helps you confirm. Are you seeing less swelling. Does it look like tissue healing and you want the imaging to be in line with what you're seeing functionally so they know that dax reporting feeling better. They know he's functionally looking better because he's progressed through a throwing program. He's now throwing thirty forty passes day expected to maybe even rejoined practice as soon as today. So the the latte string got a lot of attention. Because we don't hear about that that much in quarterbacks it is a throwers injury but you tend to see it more in baseball pitchers if you were to look at the i. O for baseball pitchers you'd see a lot of them down with strain so they did have some consultation with folks who have experience in dealing with baseball pitchers that generated a lot of worry. But i thought this is really smart. You bring in the people who are used to rehabbing these types of things and you get back working with someone who's accustomed to that and that's what i went out to cowboys camp. So i could see how deck looked running around on his ankle. And then he had led strain and lo and behold by didn't get to see him running around however it should be noted he's been doing running workouts ever since obviously he's been working with the team since ota's so. I think everybody feels very good about. I expect him back in practice. I expect him to play week. One who'd you see house devan. You like how magnanimous edifying to go. All the way out to wine country in california to see the cowboys camp like whatever her her generosity knows no bounds dedication and by the way i went and they had joint practice with the rams so i was maximizing the visit so i could watch what was happening with. The rams is kind of fun couple. Little skirmishes will aaron. Donald kerr williams getting getting into it. A little bit services are a thing right now for those saturday night. It's s-o-f-i stadium. I will take your little cooper couplets fantastic matthew as expect. But i'm a little concerned about daryl. Henderson i just don't buy they every down back thing i think they're going to end up throwing the ball more as a result relying less on the run game as sort of. It's a very interesting one trouble as we sort of Get through the rest of the pre season but that was the thing right. Is that like if you think he'd be an every down back he's going to be a value going at like. Rb twenty two. If you don't then he might be an overpay at running back twenty two. Let's go to cincinnati stefan you fifteen fifteen touches and the rams offense is here. I think plenty like mean if you think. He's other knocking to be the guy or is gonna get banged up going to end up missing you know five or six games. He's there's a reason why they dry all fair to that point by the way. Xavier jones i think is the insurance policy. You daryl henderson as it stands today him over jake funk that was one other takeaway that i had from the games this weekend us to find. Yo borough has come out and said it. Even he is acknowledging. He's having some struggles right now in training camp but they sound more mental than physical. What can you tell us burroughs progress. Well first of all. I think that's typical for anyone. Coming off a major injury like this. I don't think people have paid enough attention to how big joe boroughs injury was because his rehab is essentially been fairly smooth. We saw him. Ot as we saw him throwing the ball and doing some work at otas. And i don't think we expected that initially but remember he was injured. Late in the season had torn. acl mc l. partial end meniscus injury. I mean essentially blew out his knee and now he's got to stand in the pocket and have defense coming at that same. His left his lead leg often injured by contact for quarterbacks remember carson palmer had similar devastating injury and number of years ago incidentally while with the bengals and then tom brady had a lead leg injury as well and they all talk about the initial struggles when they have to be back in the pocket with players coming at them. I was lucky. Enough to talk to joe borough while i was there and i thought he was great at explaining what he was going through. He said the first couple of days he was in practice. His instinct was to just pick his leg up. Just get it off the ground and get away from the guys coming at him and mind you. He's in the non-contact jersey. Nobody's going to touch them. That apprehension is still there and he recognized that he was struggling he oriented some practice sessions after practice just to work on having people come at him so he could get that reaction to dull a little bit He's now doing better with that. I am standing in the pocket and scrambling a lot. Look the offensive line in cincinnati. This is a legitimate concern. And you could look at it two ways. You can look at it. As you're worried about joe borough with that or you could also look at the fact that this is forcing him to make plays quickly to scramble to do it. He needs to do to protect himself. And i think he's a very smart young quarterback who who's doing a good job with that right now i will say he's lobbying to get some preseason action because he knows he needs to face a real defense before he steps out week went so we'll see even though they have. It promised. preseason action. I do think you're going to see him. Get out there. But as seoul is to the bengals. What justin field is the denver broncos. That's my thought. When you said the offensive line is still a major major work in progress. Because he was sitting there. I picked five. Tomorrow is gonna be great. Obviously we're the bengal. Just want to add this. I i did. Talk to jimmy chase while i was there as well. And what's interesting is you gotta remember. He did not play last year and he said he's still getting the feel of football at timing down and i think martinez is going to be great. I think he's going improve in the second half. But i think everybody who thinks is going to come out of the gate with bang still a work in progress and he knowledge is that where. Where did the bengals train where you go kentucky cincinnati okay. Oh in cincinnati crossed the bridge. Back yeah i help you. With geography stayed in covington kentucky and then went across the bridge in the mornings like. Did you get any like bourbon. While you're in kentucky but it really. I just noticed she goes to basically where there's like. Really good booze boondoggle boondoggle tour twenty twenty one. That day i was working that day. She added she definitely clarified though. That was where i was gone. Frontier leaks. I did a day and a half of work. They they have they have lots of different good booze there but they also have great shrimp at our friend. Saint elmo's buddy blue took us. That's right getting s- find your carson wentz. Though has been a huge story line. I suppose ties into quit nelson as well five to twelve weeks. This time on the colts gave us. But it's starting to sound more and more like a could could be week one. What's your sense. I think the colts along optimistic that they could beat the outer range of that time line projection part of the reason. It was such a wide range of outcomes. Because the sample size of these injuries really small to the fact that carson wentz and quinton nelson had the same thing is bizarre. I can't even tell you because this does not happen that often. But carson wentz was walking around and regular shoes not a boot. By the time i was there and this was within the week of having surgery. It's basically remove the fragment of bone. That was the problem. I think it's a couple of things Because there was discussion about do you rest in versus do go ahead with the procedure but if you're carson you've had a history of injuries why not remove any concern that this is going to be a problem going forward so i think that factored into the equation And now is the question of. How quickly does this foot feel good and feel like he can get back out in the practice field. I don't think that they are set in stone. Like it's gotta be week one because they want carson wentz comfortable and they have their own challenges with the entire offense of line basically banged up and people coming back at different places so if you were watching practice you can see. That's that's going to be a challenge for him as well and that may factor into how quickly they rolling back out there. Interestingly enough the biggest question mark are having this colts is no longer carson wentz. His return quinton nelson to turn. It is the massive gaping hole. They haven't left tackle because along those lines off all the offensive line sent money. It was just a turnstile turnstile on. They feel very good about eric fisher so a couple of years they they did. It'll be interesting. I'll talk about this later. But they're going to be there. Becoming experts in is coming off of achilles repairs. And i think that's why they were confident. And bringing eric fisher over the mac. Obviously coming off that same surgery. And so i think that they're they feel good about air fisher but he's not going to be there. Probably the first few weeks of the season marlin mac. I love him. He is a great guy and he is. I think he's going to be walk. Mark my words he's going to be the benchmark for cam acres. Watch what happens with marla. Mac gonna see a guy who comes back and performs a very high level. They have jonathan taylor. He's incredibly athletic. I loved watching a practice. Marla mac will have a role. And i think this action. This weekend was critical for him. He needed to learn. He needs to learn to trust that achilles but he's doing everything asked of him and i think he's gonna set a new bar for how guys particularly running backs. Come back from this type of injury. Matthew quickly i want marlin mac to be great and come back and look like what he was before the achilles injury. Although for jonathan taylor's value as a result of that is slightly. I'm not not. Here's the thing. I mean just saying yeah like slightly the offensive line concerns. I you know the fact that he's going to be the head of a three headed committee but like marlin mac naim heinz. I think get enough work to just be annoying. Fantasy managers of jonathan taylor. I've johnson taylor running back eleven. I'm clearly not that concern. But i think eighty is running back nine or something like that slightly lower on him. The contestants consensus. I haven't looked last day or two so somebody can tell me but you know so light. Okay whatever running back eleven. Yeah i i have an eight more bullish on this. The more i think about it. I'm just keep reminding myself. don't over. think this star player. Good opportunity. Fresh legs they need. I'm in on jonathan taylor. I saw your. let's wrap up your preseason training camp tower. Are you going back out of the road or no now okay. You're back with us time now. Let's go to san francisco. Your beloved forty niners. What were some of your takeaways there whether it was you towards cadle or anything else that you wanted to share with us. Yeah so george kendall had. He had a couple of injuries last year. And i think we've interesting talking to him. He looks great. he's fully healthy. There's no issues. There recovering foot fracture. The hamster knee issue that he had. But you know we talked a little bit about titan university and he all jokes aside. I think what's really cool is when these guys are veterans and they learn from each other and he said a couple of things you paid attention to is like travis kelsey. He said he's got great tempo but he doesn't use it all the time you know. He's sort of makes a good decisions about when he's going to operate it max speed and he talked about a waller and sort of his route choices and i think the things that he talked about made me think that george kendall is going to make some business decisions this year because it's been a problem for him to stay healthy so that just something to keep in mind. I don't think it lowers his value. I think may actually raise it. Keep him on the board and brandon Really i think blossoming had a was forced into more action in his first year. Then everybody really expected But his route running is fantastic. I think it's tribute to what he what he was able to do in college of built it for him coming in as a pro but he learned a lot by that experience. I think you're gonna see a bump up for brandon. You could become the number one wide receiver on that team. I use part of the guys list that call him. I think we'll be out next week but that's tv. Gotta figure out a couple more names that i want to include on that list. I'm a name for you okay. Good let's hear it just when you're sitting there and you're saying for like these are my guys matthew berry field today. That would be just like these. Because you're sitting here going you're in the world. Hey everyone hey. These are fields guys. Who are my guys. My favorite and bryant brannon is one of them. John taylor matthew berry three comparable athletes going into their second year. Second year of geriatrics in their second year football offensive line. And it'd be good in volume two to produce exactly. Yeah yeah hopefully. You're gonna play all seventeen games this year. She probably not being honest. So if you're drafting a fantasy analyst. Mike clay is an insurance. I say the mid round whatever mike star everybody back on the show here today. We are far from done the fantasy marathon this week in tomorrow. We're going to spend part of the show telling you what it's all about how to watch it and win to watch it but that's gonna do it for today we've got the saints and bucks a double double trouble tomorrow and it's time for the marathon row past dot com use promo code six zero one zero six five hour. Energy shots gives you the feeling of alertness and energy. You need to get in his own with zero sugar and a convenient portable size. It's the perfect. Pick me up for getting stuff done and it comes in delicious. Flavors like watermelon. Tropical burst cherry peach mango and more go to five hour. Energy dot com today and use promo code f f f to receive ten percents off your order. That's the number five hour energy dot com promo code f f f for ten percent off offer valid only until september thirtieth on one order cannot be combined with other promotions code is not applicable and subscription orders.

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07/07/2021 - HOUR 3 - Suns-Bucks

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

33:23 min | 3 months ago

07/07/2021 - HOUR 3 - Suns-Bucks

"There's a reason. Podcasts are popping up everywhere podcasts can make you money and spreaker is the easiest way to start a podcast. You can literally record your first episode. today speaker. Has all the tools you need to record edit publish and yeah monetize your podcast. All in one place and it's free so tell your story and make money while doing it. Start your podcast for free. Now at spreaker dot com slash make money. that's s. p. r. e. a. k. a. r. dot com slash. Make money from the iheart podcast network malcolm global here to warn you revisionist histories. New season is completely unbound. I play chicken with cars. An oscar winner remakes a fairytale. I dive into your dirty laundry. I haven't decided who we rile up. Most college presidents or disney executives. You'll have to hear for yourself. Listen to revisionist history on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you like to listen. Thanks for listening to the heard. Podcast be sure to catch us. Live every weekday from twelve to three eastern nine to noon pacific on fox sports radio and find your local station for the hurt at fox sports radio dot com or stream. It live every day on the iheartradio app by searching heard. You're listening to fox sports radio fourteen years in the nba. We do not get regular guests in studio so we rejoice when we do great. Jim jackson fox sports analyst. The i was. I was saying this. So few years ago. The cubs won the world series and they had a bunch of young players. Theo epstein took over and they got a got a bunch of good young players. They won the world series. The next year they come back. Everybody's feeling pretty good about themselves. They're not they're still really good. But there's an urgency about right before you win title. Then you win the tyler by one to low more money. A little more credit in fact pat riley calls it the disease of what is it called the disease of more of more more credit more money more me and i look at a suns team if you give all these guys at title and a couple of big checks. They're good guys and they wanna listen to chris paul barking at him all the time could not could i argue. This is the year for phoenix. It's perfect they need him. he's there he can bark. they'll listen you give these guys a title. It may not be the same brune next year. You know what i would. I would agree with you if the team was a little bit older. Maybe but i think the makeup of this phoenix suns team based around james jones. Okay sorry account allowing james to mold the roster that makes sense with monte the respect that they have money williams as a coach as a father as a mentor The voice that he has in the locker rooms huge just tremendous to why. This team has grown so much and then the respect is young team has for chris paul to be able to get them to that level if they win a championship. I don't think that changes the dynamics of who they are because this chemistry that this son's team has is what people are looking for which is young men who played their role. And don't try to go outside of it right. a cam. johnson understands what he needs to do. A mikhail bridges. Even though he still growing as a player and mature he understands. You have crowder older vet majit. Gets it eight understands his role. It's okay devon booker can do his thing. He can beat a star. I'm feeling it so i don't. I don't think you'll have that if even if they don't win it i think guys steal respect you know the front office management coaches and most of all. Cpi sometimes it does help to. I i would. This is interesting. That booker is seen as the score. i mean last night. Eight must have had like eighteen twenty rebounds if you got a designated score like the the celtics and bird. Mikhail was great. But larry took the shot. Right book is gonna take the shot. And could i argue that. What really makes this team viable for years and years to come as they all understand who takes the shop That that's something right does it. does it'll change. I think the the better mckell bridges gets. He'll be more involved in taking the shot. But right now it's cpi or it's devitt. That's going to take the shot right now. What happens in the future is c. p. three. How long does that last in regards to him. Being played at this level because you figure he probably will opt out of his contract this year in ashburn extent you maybe not three years so out of those three years. How viable is he going to be like this for two hundred three years or one out of three years. You don't know so the future is now. I mean futures the president. They have to do something now. Now where it goes from here they had to build. Something is campaign. cam. Cameron payne the guy. That's going to lead you posts ep. You know those are the questions that you've got to answer. Once the season is over phoenix. Yeah it's Would you take lasts if you were crushed to play with this unit for three years and not moving more as less from. I think he's supposed to make forty four million next year but if you do a three year deal hundred plus million okay. You guaranteed yes. It's less than forty four million. You make in that one year but you have an extension of two years. You know you're gonna make sixty million dollars right. And you're playing in with a franchise that you know will always be able to compete. You're in a great city. Great training staff all those things factor in. So if i'm cpi. I'm looking at it like you're sixteen. Oh man i could float in the year. Nineteen no the three year deal. I'm good to go. I know it's only one game but phoenix has done this now. This is the fourth team. They just take a lead. They take control the pace milwaukee still in it right like i watched them last night and i thought oh they're going to win a game or two and i still got to go back. To milwaukee i mean don't discount now phoenix. I think a lot of times people overreact because game one phoenix was able to dominate. Milwaukee made their run and came back. Yeah but phoenix held him up well. Phoenix was supposed to their home. The east supposed to take care of home court now. Milwaukee has a great great opportunity to win game too so if you're the road team it doesn't matter if you win game one a game to you. Want one on the road. That's what counts so now. You make your minor adjustments on what you need to do to your game plan and figure out ways that you can win the next game so now home court shifts to you meaning the bucks and you can go home and take care of business. That's the mindset. You gotta have it interesting because the sun's do a lot of pick and roll. Chris paul's great at it. Milwaukee didn't adjust terribly. Well you know. It's very rare that a team gets to the championship. And i question are they well coached. Yeah is the criticism. I mean when. I watch milwaukee my takeaways. You're getting beat something. Change it or do they just don't have the personnel in that pick and roll to defend it. Well here's a problem in. The league is a copycat league because you play drop coverage meaning that on that. Pick and roll a lot of times. Lopez were dropped back. Okay forcing the point guard to come to you. Or it's an all out switch. I think the difference is when you play dropped coverage it's to prevent a quicker guard to get by you who may be inconsistent shooter. A lot of times you want to force him to shoot. Well chris paul. Neither one of those chris. Paul is not gonna blow by you but if he gets to fifteen feet he's going to beat you every time so you have to. You can't play the same kind of coverage with chris paul that maybe you play with dennis schroder or russell westbrook because they're two different kinds of players right so it's gonna be interesting to see what my boot hose are does in regards to the pick and roll making adjustments as is sometimes. There's a switch that doesn't have to be a switch because it's a brush stream so don't switch. Keep your best defender in front of chris. Paul easier said than done why we're both sitting here then on the court but those are the little minor details that you gotta look at when you breaking down film of how to play in particular not what you did all year but how you defend chris paul now milwaukee's old team phoenix is very very young team. Did you ever play on a team. A really really old or a really really young team. What was young team. Which one do you know when i was in dallas my second year we were young. Weren't that good. I mean we weren't thirteen games. I mean you know it was it. Was it not now. Old team. Probably more mature when i was in sacramento see web vladi. Doug translates the difference. Oh just a maturity part understanding how to play the game. I mean it's just you know you go into a game. Knowing your roles responsibilities on rick ataman was outstanding player coach from a communication perspective. And knowing that guys understood in the moment how to perform okay. When you're young you're still trying to figure out the game it so who you are as a place. It's like when you're when you're a young adult. You still trying to figure out who you are and what impact you want to have on society. Whatever you're doing when you're young the league in any sport you wanna prove that you can play when you get older you improve that already. Now it's all about winning. And that's the difference when you're on a older team and i think that's what c. p. brought to the table was the mentality of. He may not have won a championship. but he's been there and he understands what it takes to kind of get to that next level along with. I think what mamani williams has done has been phenomenal. We knew milwaukee had a chance to be here. Was there a moment in the regular season. You watch phoenix and thought. Wow this team's really really good. Yeah amanda times. When of course covering the clippers right us okay. Let's go back to the first time you saw him. This year with the clippers i was. This is a different makeup young talent. You gotta figure out who's going to be what ayton is comfortable in his role but just listening to money talk to me. And then during the year covering games for turner we have phoenix a couple of times and just listening to monte just his demeanor across the board not too high not too low and how his players respond to him. You you've been around this in professional sports. Guys got egos k. Is to coach that okay. It's hard for especially in the league. Guys that make so much money to respect. Who's on the bench and really buy into that philosophy. That's not the case where phoenix because they respect mani williams so much as a man first and foremost that whatever it takes to get done. They're going to do it for him and to me when i saw that happening plus maturity of their young players have gotten better. I was like what is phoenix team is it. Is it a fluke. They're winning it but they maintained it all. It wasn't a big drop all. Yeah and you know to the credit. They did the opposite of load management. They elected to play every game and their chemistry is fantastic. Why wouldn't it. I mean they're young. I mean c. P. three even with him changing his diet and his mental frame in his body allowed him to compete and play at a high lamas change. I think he did. He go vegan. All the way might have hasn't not a lot of injuries last week about it and his body composition. He looks different. He looks quicker more stamina okay because he needed to do that and think about it now if he gets a chance to to win it now you can sit in a room of the braun in d. way hand have a stake in a cigar. Not worry about it see. that's what i'm talking about. You can be vegan and have a day off. You have a day off of work. can you have a day off a vegan. I don't think that's really what what if it's impossible beefsteak. What about that. If it's a giant choice then yes if it's a lifestyle choice. What about the cigar. Does that count for vegan. But boy learns morning quoting viga. Here's some cigars. Okay so i can do. You can take a day off from if it's a commitment like it's a lifestyle that you feel convicted about. Yeah but my lifestyle. I work out every day. i still eat. You'd be vegan animals. Or if you're just paying for diet. I think two different chickens roost. Big as us chickens they would heads and without you go without actually meet no now. Okay me neither i. I don't eat as much beef as i don't report that's twenty years ago but not being able to have some turkey or chicken or something like that. Yesterday it was delicious hamburger. Today's days ago. Did you fat burger. I'm four veganism. Just not for me. Not for me. Go for it. Yeah i gotta have it the cigar. All right jim gray senior. Thank you be sure to catch. Live editions of the heard. Weekdays at noon eastern nine. Am pacific on fox. Sports radio affects one and the iheartradio app. Cunanan is no the most prolific online conspiracy theory of the twenty first century. Noon of their predictions came. True q has vanished and the school never came but cunanan is very much still alive. Now many people seem to think that because trump is no longer president. Cuban on is over. Unfortunately that's not the case. There were hundreds of thousands of them still hanging on and believe it or not some of them still think q. So food plan is being followed to the tee. We'll be showing you that just because you know seeing it everywhere now doesn't mean cunanan's going away. Join me joy hanrahan the season. Two of ju- clearance. We'll be in how q. On job listen to q. Clearance on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts pee. Wee gaskins was not. My friend is a new true crime. Podcast from iheartradio and doghouse pictures. He just chilled. Whatever he wanted to win he wanted to pee wee manipulated one unwitting accessory into hating him with this final murder. Didn't take much to find out the truth about them. Listen and follow pee. Wee gaskins was not my friend on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Joy with the news the news. This is the third line new. Have you gone. I've at herger. I had one yesterday. Unbelievably good not even not just because i'm part owner. Yes fantastic. the we have boozy milkshakes. Sorry if you haven't had a vodka milkshake man. You not lived unbelievable. Someone is probably not having vodka. Milkshakes waited a long time vers- first. Nba finals appearance at a great thirty. Two point nine assist performance in game one and obviously the suns players have been speaking very highly of chris ball. All postseason and devon booker was singing. His teammates praises once again last night. Pause he's been a bucket man coming. Obviously you he. He gets his team involved. He's the greatest leader to play this game but he's been a bucket for very long time. You know my six years of planning against him or five years of playing against them. You understand that you know. There's no scouting report. Assess chris. paul can get a bucket. he is a grown-up. Look at that. I know that is a way by the way all you quarterbacks out there dressed like devon. I actually admitted. I noticed that he had a suit on the suit. The suit on or not. He looked like a grownup. He looks very sophisticated very sophisticated. But i- basketball. Like i don't know i don't know michael jordan wore a suit every game set the tone. Was that the time when you had to know. I mean my wife always says this. Wanna go out tonight set. The tone devon booker walked into that locker room without that suit he is. This is a business. I don't know what i would do if someone was taking me out. And they showed up in a suit. No i'm just saying what what he's doing by coming into the locker room dressed like that. He is setting. The seriousness is business serious. Times is not this season regular game. This is real deal well pitfalls playing like. It's the real really like watching chris paul. he's like i'm not like i said but he's empty the clip. He is not leaving anything in the tank. Whatever cliche you wanna use you feel comfortable with but you can sense it with chris paul. He's like. I'm not going to let us lose. Sons are favored by five in game two according to fox bat. Do you think that milwaukee's gonna better in game. Yeah i would take the bucks plus five there. Yeah so andre. Johnson is a free agent. After finishing last season with the lakers. His future is uncertain as a lot of people in la right now but he seemed to take a shot at frank vogel regarding his playing time on instagram. Someone left a comment on his instagram. Saying i wish you could only dominate the paint like lopez and eight and like for real and drummond responded with. Tell y'all coach play more and i could. Is that a boy. I've been told to laker locker. Room is interesting. I is interesting now. There's not so much a hot seats as much as it's like just interesting. It's just a little little prickly right. Now it's right. Which was it lose the first round. It should be a little prickly expectations. Then that's how it goes and they need to make some moves Andre drums a free agent. I think is going to be a very different Different roster for the lakers next year but That probably didn't help if he was finding out saying so. The browns finally found some success last season winning their first playoff game in twenty six years and now they have some very high expectations for them this year but in the interview during the match last night baker mayfield. So the browns aren't listening to anyone outside. The organization thinks we've definitely had a lot of conversations about expectations. Come within our locker room. You know you set your own standards. You can't listen to the newly outside stuff. And that's what matters because you can feed into the good stuff or the bad and it's all going to negatively affect you so we have to do a good job you know keeping our guys focused one day in one week at a time. He looks trimmed down. I like that this in shape got he got puffy a couple years ago he looks good. Well you know. It's i think it's guys go through different phases throughout other career. I mean chris. Paul we were just talking about Allegedly went vegan. Some you try different things. Everything's affect the different people's bodies differently and it does take some time. I think especially when she get to the pro level in your body changes to find out what you're supposed to eat and do what. Your routine is and bakers so a very young claire. I'm i'm really really interested in the browns this season. I sold my stock on them. Last year was a year too early. And i mean they went six and ten two thousand nineteen eleven and five last year obviously demolish the steelers and the wildcard game and then lost in the divisional round to the chiefs but they have one of the most talented rosters in the lead on paper. Generally that on paper thing means it's not one hundred percent there but they just like take a step up this year and i do think baker playing for his contract. We'll make things interesting for him as well urgency joy with the news. Well that's the news and thanks for stopping by third. Lie her brought to you by jersey. Mike sobs bob. Dana white around the corner and be sure to catch live editions of the heard. Weekdays at noon eastern nine am pacific. What's up everyone. It's meet three times in all pro. Sean mary and i have a new sports. Podcast called the lights out. Podcast sean marina. This podcast especially to me as i get a chance to talk to some of the best ever done it on a field or the track so whether it's talking to a superbowl champion for nascar cup series champion. The lights out podcast will bring it to you. The only way. I know how to. I'm giving you the best insight from the best ever done. It listened to lights out with sean. Mariam the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcast. Hi it's bethany frankel and on my podcast. Just be with bethany frankel. I talked to people who have had nontraditional groups to get where they are age episode. You'll hear from disruptors. Matthew mcconaughey that day when he goes i was a good father to raise half his confidence to go. I'm going william breaking out kelly ripa. Nobody handed me anything in. I fought really hard for everything. I can so many more. Listen to my podcast. Just be with bethany. Frankel on iheartradio app apple podcasts. Forever you get your podcasts. You girl simone. Jones share some exciting info about our new podcasts. The what hip hop questions legends enlists each week. The what poses an unanswered yet nagging question discussing hip hop circles. And we help you find the answers. That's right you don't wanna miss it each and every monday you could catch the what on iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Discover matches all the cash back you earn a new credit card and your first year automatically no limit discover dot com slash yes. He's the president outspoken president of usc dana white friend of the show. They got a great fight this weekend. Dustin takes on conor mcgregor. It's a trilogy. 'bout lightweight trilogy. Boutwell the winner. Get a shot at the champ. Let's bring on dana white. Who is live from his war. Room at ufc. All right so this is interesting because there are two different fights. These guys don't waste a lot of time. There's animosity pora could've fought other fighters. Why did he choose conor mcgregor. what what what. What did he come to you. Know those those a lot of criticism of him for taking. This fight is the number one ranked guy in the world right and could've bought the title. He's done it all. He's been there he's always been around for a long time. You take the money fight you absolutely positively take. The money is the number one ranked guy in the world. It'd be beats conor. On saturday night. He finds for the title anyway and so many more people know who he is out for saturday night you did. The right thing is connor. I mean i like duston to win this fight. I think he's amorn his physical peak. Does connor have a shot. I mean if i was conor mcgregor my thing is i. Don't wanna go later rounds. I'm going to be aggressive. The first moment in octagon that would be. But you know this industry better than me. What do you foresee is the fight. What will it look like. I think that's the big story this fight you know. There's no secret that conor mcgregor has made tons of money. And you know this kid. Does things that only the one percent are doing in the world can he. Is he hungry enough. This saturday to try to you know take another title. Run and kenny. Beat us the boring. That's that's sort of the narrative of this fight. You know to tell me the first moment with connor dana the very first moment that you knew 'cause you you scout for a living like a baseball scout you're constantly looking for the next connor. When was the moment or the press conference. You're like or the workout that you went. We got a star in her hands. Well i was in. I was in ireland. One time and everybody was coming up to be talking about conor mcgregor so when i got back from ireland i talked to my matchmakers. And they're like yeah we know and we were interested in signing him. I met with them at dinner with him. When i left that dinner. I called the renzo for tetons that we tell you what i don't know if this kid can fight but if he can even throw a punch he's going to be a huge star personality for days and and you know i like that. He started fighting and he looked good man. You don't know if a guy can go all the way and win a world title. Very few people can actually do that. And connor did it. What makes dustin poor. Ea as good as he is. Is it a toughness. Is it a skill. Because you know dana. I wash a lot of your fighters. Some guys have different personalities. Connors hyper aggressive. What makes dustin great. Yeah it's both. Actually you know this is the kid that has grinded and worked his way up to the top. Nothing was ever handed to him. He's earned everything that he's got and you know he's down there in florida training with savages. I mean this guy is is. You know hasn't made the money that conor mcgregor has made so so this guy still in there grinding to work in heart if connor one would you give him a shot at the title yeah. Connor wins on saturday. He'll get a shot at the title of dust and wins on saturday. You'll get a shot at the title. Could connor innate de add nate diaz has probably top two or three fighters. There's something about nate diaz. I don't think we share anything in common the way we see the world but i find him to be. He's such a unique combative guy. And i think to myself i. I think i told you this before. The connor nate diaz. Second fight to me was frazier ali. It was one of the great night's i've ever had with buddies watching a fight could connor and nate ever fight again. People love the diaz brothers. And you know that. Connor nate fights always out there. I mean we could do that anytime. And people are gonna wanna watch that fight when you negotiate with connor to do fights. He is it different. Is it difficult. Because he is such a big star. Not really. You know what i mean. I mean listen. Connor has his moments and connor has his little things. But at the end of the day connors a damn good businessman and connor. And i've always done business yet. You have for you at this fight saturday night at the t. Mobile arena in vegas. That's home for you when you have a connor fight. Is it different to prepare for from a security standpoint. i mean he is such a rockstar. I you know it's a lot like michael jordan dana. You know that you remember when michael jordan would come to town in face. The celtics in it was different. It was like it's like you to come into town when kotaru when connor fights is it. Is it more stressful on you. What is it like to be part of that. Yeah we have to be up and a lot of different areas on a lot of different things. I don't know if you saw the footage the other day but he was in newport beach and he walked out of a restaurant had just had dinner and the amount of people that were outside found out he was in there having dinner and they were literally chasing him down the street in his car. Mobs feel like the beatles type stuff so yes. He's a massive superstar. And i actually just posted something on my instagram yesterday. The impact that that conor mcgregor has on this city when he comes here to fight and it's not just us saying it. We all the top guys from all the casinos You know one of the guys that deals with the lights that come in and out of here and how many private planes are parked in. Vegas would win. When conor mcgregor fights the best You know they take over the city. If i said to you go back to the i. I remember when you guys bought this. And the for titas for twelve million bucks and it was. I went to a network. I worked at and i said you guys gotta start televising this stuff all my buddies in vegas in la. They don't watch boxing as much they watch. Ufc go back to the bury the genesis of the sport. If i said to you three or four most important fighters is connor. One of them a one hundred percent. One hundred percent one of the most important fighters in the history of the company Chuck with dell ronda rousey conor mcgregor george saint-pierre. Have you ever gotten into an argument with connor. And you thought it could get physical. No no never lived in ireland. I nobody's feisty dana. He's feisty feisty guy yeah he's he's a you know you see some of the things that he's done outside of the octagon but but he's not like that at all. Believe me meet me. And connor have absolutely positively but it has and didn't see. I didn't agree on a few things. But it's it's it's never been like that it's actually he's been a joy to work with and You know any any of the things that you know residence the things that i'll tell you that drives me crazy about. Connor is showing up late when he shows up late. The press conferences. And you shows up late that away and things like that because we have time set with these networks and things like that. Other than things like that conor mcgregor is is is not bad to work with not a whiskey. Drinker is his whiskey any good. Yeah yeah. I actually do he. Actually that scene right there. I think he gave those to compete. Fight the cabbie press conference. He gave me a shot of that. Yeah it was actually good. I like they're fighting saturday. Vegas this is the trilogy. This is the third fight. I like dustin to win. I think he's younger and his peak but connors was wild and fun and go by dana. Great seeing again. Good to see you too. Thanks brother you bet it'll be. It'll be listen. Connor fights or must watch there must watch period. They are because he's first of all you're either and against him. Nobody's indifferent conor mcgregor. Your former against him. He's very polarizing but that is what that's half of the fight game where everybody screaming and hollering about all these celebrity fights and like how bad for the sport how how half of the. Ufc and boxing sport is selling the fight. There's nothing interesting about it. Why are you watching. No i think you. And i have said this if the late muhammad ali fought today he would be richer than michael jordan and tiger woods. He would literally break he. I mean he like floyd mayweather. It doesn't even have a huge personality in the pay per view world and people claim not to watch his fights because they're and they break every record you would get all was conor mcgregor now. He wasn't anything he was. I think was the most impactful athletes of all time. You remember watching his funeral magoo first of all. He looked like jordan when he was a captivating guy to look at had a great smile personality. Good-looking then you get the personality of a little charles. Barkley like would say anything. Then you was a little bit of a poet. He could riff and rhyme. And he was like pre snoop. I mean he could biggie smalls he could say. Stop your light. that's rhythmic. That's poetic i remember. When i was a kid. He was on wide world of sports. And i can remember watching it with my dad. There was nothing like him he would he would go after howard cosell and he'd bring wilt chamberlain on and he he there was nothing like so when you get connor and get personality. It's like there's a reason he keeps fighting these pay per view. Numbers are unbelievable right. Tankless made simple dot com. Tankless made simple dot com. Check them out. Navien tankless water filter. Say money in space and go to 'em dry for men dot com free shipping sixty day money back guarantee. It boosts some natural testosterone levels. So join i. It's joe ally and so we're off the next couple of days. Yes all right so enjoy the suns tomorrow night joys going to joys going she's going ecuador's somewhere nineteen flights away. We'll be back monday. Yes great week getting some time offer a few days. it's the heard. Remember cathy comics. You know the funny page. Classic that featured kathy struggling with work self esteem and relationships act. My name's jamie loftus. Host of lolita podcast and my year and mensa. And i wanted to take a look back at kathy guys. Wade's day to day. Chronicle of american womanhood starting back in the seventies and yes. I'll be speaking with cathy herself. So listen to act cast by jamie loftus that a. c. k. c. a. s. t. on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast. September tenth two thousand one one block from the world trade center security cameras captured the last known images of dr sneha and philip shopping at seven eighteen pm. She swipes the credit card grabs her bags and exit onto the street into the rain. She never comes home the next day with the world trade center chaos thousands disappear but hot is different. There is not a trace of nothing. Listen to missing on nine. Eleven on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

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