20 Episode results for "Front Running"

Building a store-of-value with Decreds Jake Yocom-Piatt

Messari's Unqualified Opinions

39:49 min | 1 year ago

Building a store-of-value with Decreds Jake Yocom-Piatt

"All right everyone. Welcome back this Ryan Lucas. And you're listening to him. Saris unqualified opinions. Where each week? I interview Crypto. Top builders investors and personalities discuss of key trends in the industry can discover more about Massari. I'm sorry dot. Io but for now. Let's get right into the episode. It's going to be a good one. This podcast podcasts is presented by block works group on the top block chain of events and media production companies. I've worked with for exclusive content events. That could help you with insight into the CRYPTO. Don't blockchain space check them out at WLAC works group DOT ISO and you will not be disappointed. Really excited for conversation today with Jake. Yoko quiet. Who is the project lead at decrees? or It's a little bit about what it's been like for decrepit as a hybrid proof of work proof of stake system how they think about vying for attention and developer interest in economy given how many alternatives there are today some of the unique work. They're they're doing on the community. Governance Fronts and how those experiments have been working the wild and then finally took less technical development sit around rematch mm-hmm decreed as far as public blockchain's go certainly seems to have a little bit more buzz than the Typical top one hundred projects. And I'm not sure exactly where where the project sits right now from the market cap it has been slowly and steadily rising up the ranks. I if you're watching this livestream out. We're getting the beautiful Chicago Sun causing a halo effect. It's not only around Jay. which is quite auspicious? Maybe perhaps around the entire decrypt product. So we're GONNA talk a little bit about some of the investor interest And and how you guys position yourselves so successfully over the last year so more Portland snacks. What what gives this project protocol some staying power so jake before we dive in two D credit? Let let's talk more about your back story. And and kind of personal journey down on the crypto rabbit hole and and how we got to this point where your your project lead for for one of the top open public blockchain's it did not do an ICU. Correct that is indeed correct. We see when we launched. We launched with a working working product in working blockchain. So all that went live. And you know we didn't. We didn't take any external capital I for all of the all the capital required to. She killed it so So let let's start before them right so we'll get to that of a comeback history but down but what were you doing doing pre crypto and And GonNa wear Where did you start going down the the rabble early two thousand thousand thirteen wasn't but what's going to happen in that interim period sure thing so my background is on A? I went to school for physics. I DIDN'T I. I originally wanted to be an academic. That didn't pan out. So I I sort of cast it around founded in figured out what I was good at one of the things that was a system administration I take operating systems in existing pieces of software. Plug it together and make it do things things and do that pretty well. So so that was sort of my interest in Back in I think it was twenty. Seven was the first point which I saw. I saw bitcoin and and I thought Oh. Wow this is pretty interesting. I got my attention and then I saw it again in two thousand twelve. I'm like okay. You know this idea of storing value without a bank that's really cool and It really it really captured my imagination and then You know I finally circle back to it in late. Twenty twelve in early two thousand thirteen. I finally got involved in immediately immediately. Prior to this is working on Cypher. Tight which was a secure online backup solution and the idea. There was degree A backups such. There's no one. Even even the service storing it could breed them so the unfortunate reality was computer security software. Is that really. Most people. Don't care so uh you can make these backup secure in knowing really cares. We ended up pivoting to bitcoin because we saw in late. Two thousand twelve. Were like Whoa. We need to. We need to do something else. This secure backup stuff off his working so then we ended up cutting over to Bitcoin and what we saw was as we saw that You know bitcoin core was really moving along but we tried to sort of interact back with them and we found them to be. You know at least semi hostile and that was kinda disconcerting so I figured hey you know if we can contribute to the ecosystem a system by creating another alternative implementation from scratch. We did that and that led to a from basically early twenty thirteen until roughly earlier earlier mid two thousand fifteen that led to some animosity with the bitcoin core developers and along the lines of they didn't like competition. So Oh that's a that's how that went. It ended up being a good learning experience and it taught me some. You know some very useful things that I that I brought to bear decreed. I mean one one of the being that as much as interesting as a decentralized store of value and you know a means to transmit that value is it then begs the question. Okay how is that. How is that? You Know Lender decentralized ledger. How is that ledger? Governed and I saw firsthand in our interactions with a you know with the other. bitcoin developers the bitcoin core guys that it was just it was very much normal. Open source project. There are people were benevolent dictator for life and have established positions. And you can't really challenges these people so in a way to put it succinctly I felt like that was kind of an unfair situation to be good in Both for because a project and then me as someone else who wants to contribute to that project so we took that you know we took that information than roll that into one. Ultimately Committee became degraded. So what we did is that we saw what we didn't like about bitcoin. And we distilled it down to a few major points and which were basically commercial work miners have too much power the software you know. There's really no formal governance system. It's just whatever a few people say goes and then everyone else can more or less second egg and then the other one being there's no funding When we did this work originally there was there was no funding for it? There were there. There's no block stream there's no real. VC money in the space and we had shown up because we thought we thought the the technology was cooling in order to keep any project going. You need so you need to fund this. Those were the three major shortcomings we saw and then we developed decreed and wanted in a February twenty sixteen as a means to address what we we saw the shortcomings of Bitcoin. Back back then. I mean even even bitcoin struggling with the kind of ongoing funding and decentralising governance the backstory. They're being really led to the rise of black stream and its funding. It also probably led to the slow and steady divergence of kind of east and West communities the West being more developer heavy in terms of the core contributors the protocol in and then The these being the mining community which which really was providing an in most likely a still provides may ninety percent of the capacity to not just bitcoin but many proof of work networks so one one of the key things that that you and other teams try to confront was how do you how do you suck any oxygen from the Bitcoin And this very powerful shelling points Down that he had to generate interest in something. That's slightly different points. You push the envelope on consensus standards or slightly different security model things like that. Yeah I mean what we ended up doing to sort of the per the three points that I had made that was sort of what led. That's what we used as the lead into this is why we're stepping out and doing something different. And then the way we ended up doing things different is that we we tried to combine three facets of the system which is that some proof work is great. It works but then Has these governance problems. If you add ED proof of stake to it you hybridize proof of work improve state. Which is I? Think the core thing that we launched with in February of two thousand sixteen that ends up giving you a lot more security against majority attacks. So if you're going to try to create a long lived a four and then say I dunno Robin Exchange. You need to eat devil long-lived fork in order to do that that you need to mind in secret and then you need to You know there's a lot of things that need that need to happen all at the same time in order for this to you know to to to be pulled off off and that was one thing that we fixed the other thing that we end up fixing was the ability to pay ourselves. We were able to be sustainable in the long term so rather than going. Hey we need some big venture capital money to show up in fund. Our Dev work. Let's just funded ourselves out of the blockchain. So ten percent member block goes to the Treasury Organization in that Treasury Organization pays for Development and then the other thing that we ended up doing to sort of differentiate ourselves was in. This didn't happen really until the beginning. Getting of two thousand seventeen was we took our hybrid proof of work proof of stake system and we integrated with the the process of consensus rule changes ages so that when consensus rules need to change. which is you know? Hey episodically might need to bump the block size might need to shrink the block size of your if your junior. You might need who you might need to add up codes so that you can support the lightning network. There's two reasons to make a consensus changes. And we felt that by doing these three things. We differentiate ourselves pretty heavily for bitcoin. Now when we ended up doing that we ended up pretty much having to go it alone for the first year or so but once things started to heat up in two thousand seventeen other people in the space so are you know are your value proposition end. Our you know our differentiation points as something that drew drew them to it. And you you know a lot of cases we have people in our project. Who aren't necessarily you know? They're not like what is exiled from the bitcoin space but rather there people who see the you know the depth of value in these kinds of systems a system that can adapt over time a system that can change the rules albeit in a way that is reasonable reasonable and done according to the interest of the people who already hold the coins so for you know in terms of competing for developers being for developers ends up being a you you know a question of value propositions in what you can offer and I think that we also a there aren't many hybrid blockchain's out there so as a function of that it's it's relatively unique. We have some strong selling points. And then you know. We're also very principle community because I felt like I got kind of the asset of the stick in the bitcoin context I I really try to make a point to be as fair as possible to everyone so when people show up you know. It's not like a jake's the benevolent dictator for life. In fact I'm really on my way to engineering myself out of the equation and people see that and they you know they obviously perceived value so. Let's talk tuck learn more about the hybrid perform state because this was something that for a while as the two point zero roadmap right lake where they wanted to gradually transition from proof of work they had things like the difficulty bomb that continues to get kicked down the road and it's kind of becoming like a running joke similar debt ceiling but how that stayed relatively constant that split or how you thought about transitioning away from it all to work overtime. What is the? What's the long term look like for for this ecosystem? Is it kind of a little bit of proof of work until it's no longer necessary. I'm we'll Malawi's the I think that proof of work at least for the foreseeable future will continue to be a consensus mechanism. And there's something so the way our our blocks of these flint. Let's start. There is a split sixty thirty ten so it split sixty percent to proof of work. Thirty percent approve stake in an presented the treasury and the reason that we ended up You know having that mix when we when we started as the work requires actually purchasing real whitman women making capital expenditures and having a facility cooling it. Would you know all the power miners. It typically asked lives over the mountains to have a good you know Like a good cooling cost and a good electrcity cost. There's all kinds of considerations that ended up going into proof of work. That's why we felt that it should get sixty percent because somebody's got to build these things and pay for them and then the reason we wanted to do a proof of stake and do thirty percent is that when we started the project. We didn't want these and I say semi passive rate of return for proof of stake participation. We didn't want it too high. Because if you run it to lean then you attract the era. Excuse me run to rich you attract the wrong kind of people you attract. The people were just rent seekers and just there you know rip rip value out of the consensus mechanism so we started. You know sixty sixty thirty ten and then in terms of social work we intentionally chose an ACC friendly algorithm blake to fifty six with fourteen rounds. And we did that because we didn't want to a We saw these sort of the whack-a-mole will that was being played by Monroe and in terms of resistance and we felt that we didn't WanNa have to constantly be playing whack-a-mole with our proof of work algorithm. So we just said we're just going to go ahead with it and something out there that people can turn into a six deal deal with that and then in terms of the split and where things are going is what we've been seeing is is that We have like a decay curve you know. BITCOIN has the habit every four years in our case every I think every three weeks. Roughly six thousand one hundred forty four blocks the subsidy drops by Reduced reduced by a factor of one hundred over one hundred one roughly a drop of one percent so we have small a subsidy adjustments on our blocks over time and then in terms of inflation. We don't have anything baked in. We don't have a tail mission like say Monteiro and then you know to connect back to your comments about the highperformancerealestate. I'm from St for Theorem. Is we saw. We saw the hybrid report proof of stake proposed and we were like. Hey we we. We've kind of already done and and it's something that I do find. Entertaining is to know that that it didn't end up ultimately You know it. What is materializing and your comment? There's the difficulty bomb which is now embedded in keeps getting kicked And so we started a little bit more on the weeds. And and maybe I I turn most conversations. I WANNA pull back a little bit just to to to come up rare and make sure that we did just lose everybody at now. The the reason I want to start with the consensus mechanism and how you guys are different is a it is one of the differentiating features I think of of decried in terms of hey think about sovereign resistance or actual permission lists transactions. And why why. This system is better than bitcoin or better than a true proof of stake system. That's the you get the distribution wrong. It just becomes like -opoly Goppel things like that so it is. It is kind of an important differentiating feature and And I I suppose the natural question just to kind to bring people back is how do you think about your competitive position Ray. To what is success for for decried eh protocol. Is this a substitute for Bitcoin. Is it a substitute for some other platform. Do you think about Decrepit being part of a basket of of kind of three or four core crypto currencies if someone holds for the currency function. Where where exactly is the differentiated use case? Because I think you can kind of rock. How the system design is different different? And how you got good. Governance is kind of baked in to begin with but is that we're has that been a trauma poll to actually drive usage to decrypt versus have just kind of sitting In the periphery as a hedge of sorts great this is important for this ecosystem to exist in case. XYZ happens to Bitcoin REX. Y happens to to one of these other protocols. What's what's the right positioning is people? Think through why they should get involved here. Because the odds of someone saying I'm GonNa go do this transaction using decreed it's still like miles and miles away for people to think that way in Bitcoin. Germs much less an asset. That is twenty thirty down the quantity rankings. Yeah so I think that if we look at how bitcoin has worked for the past. Several years is that Bitcoin is primarily a store of value. It's it's really here and there it's used as a medium of exchange it's practically never used as a unit of account and in the goal with decrease decree superior store of value. That is that you know if we look at what's worked. What's worked is creating stores of value that really has worked in? Oh you know anyone who bought bitcoin. Twenty fourteen or two thousand fifteen consol you store. Values thing is working and that process is something the you know that we aim to reproduce within within degrade and the way we were trying to differentiate. Ourselves is if we look at what bitcoins value proposition. It's the things are going to change very very slowly and your your expectations are. Are you know the social contract is very little of this is going to change and A. and no one's GonNa mess with the inflation and that's just how it is whereas the approach that we take with with degrade is we are also a store value but our goal it is to move and evolve with time so that as new technology comes Comes into play or or new papers get published. We can incorporate the technology login move forward in a in a way where we don't really care about soft works hard for and we evolved technologically as time marches forward as opposed to going while there. Was this really awesome idea. Eleven years ago in. We're just GONNA stick with that and change like just a little view things around the bravery and I think that they're you know they're in in terms terms of how we expected position ourselves in in the more medium term is that our goal is to be one of the few top Store Value Chains Raines. And the idea. There is to avoid the whole medium of exchange approach angle because it's sort of inserted putting the cart before the horse. No one wants to use anything as a medium of exchange until it's a store valued own wants to use anything as a unit of Accountants medium of exchange. So it's sort of a cascade so we're trying to focus on just you know the first part with the store value and then we can move on from there to things like meeting exchange in account In terms of liquidity on the chain A. and people and people being able to spend decreases that we are focusing on the lightning network and we will be having our initial lightning network release where we incorporate that into our you know aura. What is our graphical wallet to credit on A? We're actually doing that here in the next week so So the whole you know the whole process of differentiating in how to position or how or how people should think about in. The context of other cryptocurrencies level. Space is position ourselves as a store of value rather than trying tried to create. Sort of a you know an APP coin where there's a predefined narrow use case you know say you can explain to venture capitalists. Let's talk about the the recent privacy implementation even working on to. There's been a line of thinking that's privacy coins. Have maybe no differentiating real features and that privacy is a feature not a standalone component of a currency. You've recently began work on a pricey implementation. Talk a little bit about that and incompetent. Some of the other protocol or work has been done that it borrows from How it's getting incorporated into the protocol? And whether you bite that thesis that this is just a phone future that that we and other flexible teams that have faster. Governance mechanisms will ultimately. Simile siphoned off and incorporate to make our own platform. Better right settles Good artists copy great artists steal mindset except Which is fair game open source by the way but but but comments on that a little bit and maybe talk through the the prices shirts thing all try to try to keep it brief? I can talk too long about this. Okay so I mean. My View on privacy. Is that it it. It really is more a feature than I. You know then are a aw a core thing to focus on the project that said there's a very talented people working on the privacy focused guy you know projects whether it's a Komo Narrow Z.. Cashiers or you know zero coin. There's some really talented people out there who are making real progress on the privacy front but as Burger comments the because we can change our consensus rules as a function of time and do it in a way the chain keeps operating smoothly for decreed we can effectively bolt on privacy privacy features as we go. Or let's say Bolt on Feature that we that we thought was cool we find out later it wasn't so great we can discard it. And then change consensus is rules in up something else in us that so from you. Know from adaptability standpoint degraded position to pretty much. Do whatever it wants with privacy and the approach we decided to take was one where there's really two facets to privacy and you are not trying to attack both facets at the same time contact one at a time. One is a link NCAA delivery so being able to link You know a UTSA was on the chain so you can link the coins on the chain. A lot of cases you can infer identities entities or groups or were relationships between people so you can focus on Lincoln Body and if you look at same oh narrow that's other ring signatures work is. This is that that breaks link ability or it makes it. You know it agrees in. What is it elevenfold anonymity within a transaction in terms of you know what the the input he says were and in in? We decided to sort of go that route. That is focused on link ability. I because we felt it was more important. The second component which is also more difficult. Which is a amount privacy right so if you have a public ledger and you're trying to make sure there's only X.? Things on the Public Public Ledger. If you start obfuscating the amounts it's like well. Does it all reconcile at the end of the day. So so the the ability to reconcile account You know everything is a function ocean of those amounts so changing the amounts is obviously to technologically. It's harder to pull off so for example. The Way Minero deals with that is that they deal they. Ah They have confidential transactions which is bulletproof so you blind the amounts with a commitment and then you have arranged proof for the you know for each of the individual amounts. And that's how they handle the amount obfuscation. So that requires consensus changes. So Arbroath was to deal with the link ability. I in and we had seen a paper which we really liked were Woah. which was coined shuffles? So there was a coin Shell paper which proposed a mechanism for shuffling BITCOIN transactions. And what we ended up doing was while we saw following paper Quin shovel. Plus plus we ended up implementing that so what that does is that allows that allows for an off chain multiparty computation process that uses basic cryptographic. Primitives Ltd's to break link ability between Between the inputs outputs of that transaction. So that if you if you I in ten other people all put money into one of these mic point chapel. Plus plus mixing transactions on the other end they're mixed mixed outputs are indistinguishable and not Lincoln Bowl to any of us. Who put the funds in so the reason we like? This is because it uses a simple curve for graphic it uses things like Different Linke Exchange Range Driving Session keys. You know a blinding thing. You know commitments using Hashes and pads using hashes and then involving systems of equations. These are all basic you know sort of like introductory college level mathematics that can be used to you know to obfuscate the origins of transaction. That's what for us was the real draw to and then if you look at Saint Y.. Z. Cash is doing so Z.. Cash does zero knowledge proofs a a specific type Zeki smirks and it's a very. It's a very powerful technology. It's incredibly big hammer. And it can be brought to bear on a a number of different problems. It solves the link ability and the amount privacy in one. Go the caveat there being that if you look at the source code for its. It's it's monolithic. It's like twenty three thousand lines of code that probably fifty people on the planet are are qualified to audit and so so we had looked at that we liked it. We thought it was very cool hammer. But it's like man what if there's something busted in there and so the what if of that really kinda turned us off and then similarly similarly with with Manera. They use rangers and rinse signatures and disease both. Have a property that you know that I'm not a fan of which is that. They break pruning so so at some point you wanted in the future you throw away the history of the blockchain. You cannot do it with those projects because of the fact that the opposition of the link ability basically breaks pruning. So we wanted something that was portable and relatively simple and then something that was flexible flexible. So that we could we could change. We upgrade it in a the coin shop plus plus process. We felt delivered on those fronts so we ended up running with that and and we're in the process of integrating so we haven't out it's public. It's going into this release that's coming. Hey I think the release is going to happen this sweet. I say because I don't really I don't WanNa promise anything until it's actually out but The the upshot is already being used to you know to make a ticket purchasing bribe's so because our hybrid performed proof of stake system is based on tickets where you effectively lock coins in exchange for a ticket. The ticket goes into rural rolling lottery. Sorry and then. Those tickets are called to vote Both on chain and then you can use them to vote in off chain project management system. So what we've done is we've overlaid privacy see with our government system which solves a major problem a lot of mixing technology. which is the WHO's GonNa use it whereas the volume gonNA come from so in our case we've overlaid governance which has a sort of intrinsic transaction volume with our privacy system and where we're going with this is that there's a whole bunch of other other things that will need to be changed going forward in order to make these systems of function Seamlessly together so for example. You can't buy tickets through a and use a stake pool because that bleeds your privacy. So then there's all kinds of things that need to be changed over the next six months in order to make that whole system Bob. So that's that's that's where we're at with the privacy and that's what we're GONNA do for the next six months in terms of privacy. What are some of the applications that you are most excited sighted about in general but maybe some of the ones that Could be opened up. Once this new prime it is fully Bayton protocol be as the consistent theme that that he going back to you with base layer protocols like who's using the ship right or who's going to and basically bitcoin in theory are the only ones that have answered that question question right now. You can make minor arguments about some of the others. But I still say that by Marge's those do and I don't think that's really controversial So what what How do you incentivize folks bill on saw what are what are some of the early applications could see outlet? You have seen Goltz. And and how do we scale actual use cases beyond just shuffling flaying coins around from staking pools to changes back to hardware wallets and and and kind of round robin. Until until his speculative you Okay so so so so just to make sure I understand. It's you're asking. What the what? The applications are privacy beyond sort of the the initial official stuff. That would deny that I covered right. I'm talking about use cases that are being or applications that are being built on decrepit number one and number two which new use cases or which applications might be Built or or might even be targeting for Developments posts the new privacy. Uprise yeah I mean in terms in terms of use these cases is that In the same way that say you know. Bitcoin doesn't necessarily have a whole lot of use cases like people people people talk about bitcoin use cases but the the the real application is the store of value. which sort of its own? Its own game. You want to leave your coins there and then you want to leave them there for a longer. A long period of time and in the case of the theory was hearing was built to be more of a platform right. So so the idea. Is You draw people in and then people build on that platform so we're taking more of the store we're value tacked on the platform tack because the platform the platform that say a theory has based on the breadth of what you can do with the smart contracts so the smart contract system it you know in in a theorem is is really draw and then in the case of the case degrade. We're trying to focus focus on things that are a little bit more sort of traditional that. Is this idea that you can create infrastructure. That can't be tipped over that you could create a that. You could participate in our privacy system and then say Go back out so so you can basically dip your toe in advocate store value where there's privacy being created did and then duck backout revert to therion will revert to Bitcoin. The idea being that we're trying to add and then and act is a stored value in terms of people building on top of Deacon in. So you know it's just Just not built the same way as a theory in so I feel like I feel like focusing gene on what's going to be built on top secret is a bit. It's a bit challenging. We're obviously trying to get our Lightning network up and running in people people using that but just just like with bitcoin is. It's difficult to say if there's really an APP that we're trying to build as much as sort of the ability to store and reprints Mitt value has its own sort of application. So you just want more people doing that. You know. Our goal is to create the better store value. That is better bait so people all do it on our platform as opposed to bitcoin which we think is fair to say will not change hugely as a function of time so every several years. I'd expect to see some cool. Oh features added to beat but to Bitcoin I would not be. I'm not expect like wow. They're going to be on the cutting edge of fronts. ABC just by merit of the social contract that they haven't placed with everyone at this point. And I think that a theory him is a serious of smart contract. Platform is very interesting. I it gives a lot of breadth but then it's a you know it has its own sort of things that hold it back like for example that the biggest application that you know that that I've seen used on the platform is raising money and now that's slowed down a bit. It's you know people are having really figured out and finding you know what I consider to be the real applications as much fun as it was to see you know the VC's get frustrated other. Everyone else was out seeing them on a theory. Make sense us to obviously privacy's a big one what what other facets of the roadmap can we expect to see come out and You know the range of the year and early twenty twenty at this point Z.. The Big One. That's being were there there. There's I think there's two yeah there's to real major ones that are there being worked on one of them is Decentralizing the treasury. You know in the interest of getting our project out the door watching and making everything work. We we wanted to have decentralized treasury from launch. But we couldn't figure out do it. You know properly so what we've done is we. Actually we put a proposal forward to due to decentralize the treasury. Formerly that is the idea is to make a very sort of a very small smart contract than exists in our scripting. The systems would be a couple two new OP codes and the way that work is. There's a T- spend and a t add op code the idea being that Every every block instead of the ten percent going to a three or three multi address that's controlled by corporate entity. It would go to a it. Would T- add to the special treasury account and then when funds are drawn from the Treasury they're drawn from the treasury using a t spend so that the funds are spent and then the T. spend transactions have to actually be voted on by the stakeholders so a trend like draft transactions proposed people vote on that transaction Hash and then after a week of voting. And there's a threshold of yes no that transaction would be published would be valid on the chain so so it's like a it's like a very small little fury embiid. That's that stuck into our system so we have very minimal smart contract. That does that that works. Should probably wish probably have that landed by mid next year and then the other thing that we're working on this relatively large is our decks intrastructure so you know. I don't know how much experience you have with this. But I've seen a lot of questionable things occur when you're trying to get listings on exchanges able wanting to be paid exhorbitant marketing fees. And so on so I experienced a lot of that and it really did not sit well with me. Somebody who knows that to add this thing from adept standpoint is maybe ten K.. You know people asking you know. Six seven or eight figures to get added to various exchanges is ridiculous so so I felt like there really needs to be better a decentralized exchange infrastructure there several there there's myriad projects that are already doing this out there but they have one thing one thing in common all of them are to some extent rent-seeking so everybody's trying to get Nejra you get a little bit of the The is the trade. The trade fees into their account in our case. What we're trying to do is we're trying to remove rent-seeking both in terms of listings and in in terms of a trade fees? Were trying to fix the way. The trading works in the sense. That a person I out up were matching which is the sort of the gold standard crossbows centralized and decentralized exchanges both in the Fiat anchor dough world. We're we're doing away with that. We're doing SARANDA matching so people submit orders orders and then within the epoch. Those orders getting shuffled imple- commit to values. They reveal their commitments at the end of an epoch and then the things match pseudo randomly so you ideas to get basically basically completely rule out front running as much as we can and then the last thing you know is to is to make the U. X. more like email it should be like email but I wanna I i WanNa send you a theory. It's rang like email but if I want to exchange say degrade for him that's not like email. You have to go somewhere you have to use. Somebody's stuff it's it's a game for them to make money and instead it should be something like you know someone sets up a server somewhere you mash a couple buttons and you want a theory. ISD Grin I send it to server you get a theory. I'm we call it a day and we do that using a atomic swap so everything gets matched and then there's an atomic swap across chains. And then you know funds move on chained on chain so You know those are those. Are The directions were going end. Those are the two biggest things that we have in the pipeline. For the next thing you know six to nine months awesome. Well I over one enjoyed a this update and refresh on on decreed jake working. NFL find you and get involved in the projects. The Revolution will not be centralized But our chat platforms are so a chat dot degrade dot dot org we. Typically we prefer Matrix but we also support slack and discord. Those are bridged. So if you wanna read if you want to participate you can show up on any the of those three but again I prefer Matrix in in. I suggest people use that better And we can be. We can be founded events here and there but really were were an online community so feel free to show up in our chance but none were of the consensus two thousand eighteen spacesuits. A the the other space of manner got about a minute. We did. We'll we'll let let you off the hook me. A lot of people are on fumes around consensus that you're but It's it's been a pleasure good to see how far the platforms coming in and and congrats on all the experimentation with some of the some of the upcoming releases so jake we will catch consumed meantime all out there until next one rap. Thanks for listening. thank you episodes of unqualified opinion. Ally Weekdays at noon eastern time following in the meantime on twitter at two bit idiot. Want to continue the conversation caproni otherwise next week.

treasury jake developer Ryan Lucas Chicago Portland Jake Massari Yoko Jay. West twitter Robin Exchange flint front running NCAA episodically
How Synthetix Became the Second-Largest DeFi Platform - Ep.148

Unchained

1:01:41 hr | 1 year ago

How Synthetix Became the Second-Largest DeFi Platform - Ep.148

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And by Crypto Abdollah. True cost with no fees. markups get a medal M. C. O.. Visa Card with up to five percent back on all year spending want more. Download the CRYPTO DOT COM APP up. Today cracking is the best exchange in the world for buying and selling digital assets. It has the tightest security deep liquidity and a great structure with no minimum or hidden fees. Whether you're looking for a simple Fiat on ramp or futures trading. Cracking is the place for you. Oh Cypher trees. Cutting edge CRYPTOCURRENCY INTELLIGENCE POWERS ANTI MONEY LAUNDERING BLOCKCHAIN analytics and threat Intel leading exchanges ages virtual currency businesses biggs and regulators themselves. Use Cypher trees to comply with regulation and to monitor compliance. Today's he's got a cane warrick founder of synthetics locum Cain. Hey Laura thanks very much for having me. Let's start with a basic question. What is synthetics and Synthetics is essentially a synthetic asset Platform on a daring. So we create tokens that track Assets chocolate price of assets in traditional finance and the finance to allow people to have press exposure. And it's Rena talk a little bit more about what all that means but first. Let's talk a little bit about your background. How did you come to found synthetics so I was actually running a payment stop Back in twenty fourteen twenty fifteen and we worked with a lot of the changes in Australia and as it Kinda got closer to the bull market in two thousand sixteen twenty seventeen like a lot of markets like Korea. We sold that there was a pretty big. EXPI- can spread out between Prices in Australian and other markets at the US in Europe. And so we had this idea that gray able to build a stable coin. We would the Those prosperous and more efficiently move money around and so we started doing research. This is before Microsoft launched And really the only only option out there was terror and so yeah we we essentially decided to launch this This new protocol to enable people to transfer value a stable token kind of how the project started which was called Hayden back then. And how did you make the transition synthetics. So one of the I guess ideas that I had when we launched this was that regulated stable coins. Were not going to be very likely early. or at least you know we're gonNA take a long time To launch and that turned out to be very accurate in two thousand eighteen paxos trio st in US DC on on a lot of the regulated sabre coins that launched and that just meant that the market for a central sabre corn was much smaller than it had been and so we looked at the model and we set up. What can we do Without model to kind of create some differentiation and one of the things that we saw was this ability to repress debt and move between different synthetic asset so we had a synthetic US dollar token but we were able to launch a synthetic. Gold Tokens like silver token and people were able to move between those tokens with zero slippage which was kind of the the advantage. So at that point we decided to focus on the exchange and that ability to trade synthetic assets. Yeah and I think. What's remarkable is that you've gained quite a bit of traction in a short amount of time? So let's talk a little bit more about kind of like what that journey was after you started creating some of these. How did you become one of the biggest projects in defy a cut gradually and then once I guess you know we we have the second most valued locked and and you know the way that that kind of evolved I guess is we I? As we launched more synthetic assets Luxembourg. bitcoin said that a gold synthetic sober awareness and interest in the project grew really rapidly but in addition to I guess pivoting toward synthetics. We also made a decision decision to change the monetary policy of the particle so previously like most USC twenty tokens that launched in twenty seventeen in two thousand eighteen. We had a fixed a fixed supply of one hundred million. And we decided that we weren't really seeing high staking rates. We weren't getting people participating in protocol. You're you're kind of doing what we needed them to do. And so we change the monetary policy in essentially sort of pain inflation to the people who are stating who are actively participating in the network and that immediately had a a very powerful feedback loop at a created where people got more excited. They started to To understand the project good morning dive in and the growth kind of accelerated from their great. So yeah let's talk a little bit more about what people are doing on the platform. What are some the most popular since so we actually just launched a bunch of nuisance this week including divine index token and so this defined index token is essentially like a basket of tokens In the space. So there's major they are obviously linked s an XS in there Etcetera so what you can essentially do hold this token and get exposure to kind of the entire defy space or or at least a token is dot projects with defy. And so that's I think pretty marvel An interesting asset that doesn't exist anywhere else But in addition to that we've got you know things like that. bitcoin synthetic ether. Where a lot of the Boeing happens But we're starting to seeing you know definitely demand growth for or things like synthetic maker And some of the inverse tokens so during the transition To multilateral die of few weeks the demand for synthetic major and has really increased than this long organic mapping there which is a good to see the super interesting. Yeah there's so much to unpack Jack I guess. Why don't we just start with the defy token I in a way You know it's it's sort of like I guess. It's like an index acce. How do you decide like what the weightings and stuff should be? Yes so we wanted it to be representative of the space. And obviously you know on on the track things that have tokens subcontracts on the compound. Right now for example But we took the weightings by market cap. And then we're trying to normalize it. It was actually one of our discord participants. One of the synthetics members who kind of normalize allies the weightings and proposed at autismspeaks who show love to follow him on twitter as well And the community then voted and reviewed that waiting eating and they're happy with it We also did some polls to work out what people wanted to include in the index So it was kind of an open governance mechanism to determine waiting and constituents at the the basket and then for a sense like the bitcoin sense. Why is it that they wouldn't wouldn't buy bitcoin yet to? It's really good question. I think the advantage that we have with something like synthetic bitcoin is if you want to hold bitcoin. In your your longtime holder it makes sense to go by the spot market but like most derivatives the advantages in kind of access right. So if you're holding bitcoin coin and you know you got it in your wallet going from Bitcoin into Eath or into USDA or something like that at this friction there Whereas all you want is the price exposure and not necessarily long-term holder Your ability to go from bitcoin into say gold and then back in the US dollars within synthetics exchange with at zero slippage is more powerful. And so that's why I think we're seeing a lot of people who want that price exposure but also want flexibility of being able to move out into a different asset fairly quickly quickly and is there anything that they're doing with bitcoin in the seventh bitcoin that they couldn't do with BTC as well as site just from being able all the trade in and out of it without slippage. No that's basically it's just people looking for price exposure so think about it as kind of the difference between gold speeches teaches versus the the gold spot market You know people who don't necessarily want physical delivery gold. They slumped prostitutes Gold this is sort of a similar the maximum you just get processed Osha to Bitcoin But without your having custody be acid or the acid or anything like that and then I was. It's also wondering about some of these sense that are similar to stable coins like this that s USD. I so I don't know if this would technically clean be called a stable coin but I did happen to see that the amount of value in it is ahead of for instance Gemini USD which is in actual stable able coin but then since synthetic USD is backed by s annex. Is that essentially just like a riskier version of Siebel coin and so it has. It's kind of like different properties from table. Coin or like how. How would you compare this to a regular stable coin so I think in in two thousand seventeen twenty eighteen we kind of soul three different types of stable coins emerge? There was the feedback. Put money in the bank. It's a right to convert that token into the FIA style said once. Oh No that's Passos Jim Allen. A trio stayed CETERA and tether extensively and then we had crypto collateral back So obviously maker dies the biggest example of that so using either as collateral to issue a stable USD asset and. That's really tell you what you're SEO's is. It's the same kind of principle just using s an XS collateral set of eighth and then there's the third category which is the outward mixed corn so things like basis which obviously didn't launch so. We didn't really get a chance to kind of see how that works out but I think there is a few more mixed. And what are people doing with the sense. USD well one of the nice things again about The sort of sint ecosystem. Oh my guess is that you can take that synthetic acid and converted easily into a different asset so you can go from your suv into gold And end so I guess that's kind of a bit of different property to say something like no Jemma or tether where you need to find a counterparty to trade With in order to convert into some other asset so sort of one of the interesting properties of synthetics. Is that once. You got any of this debt whether to stay or old old corn you have the right to repress dead into any other asset and we talked earlier a little bit about how the defy synth was formed. But where did the idea or where does the idea for any particular since come from Maine typically comes from community. We've got a a lot of traders in our community and a lot of people who are very into crypto entrance trading and that's the thing so we look at what the demand this from the community so things like s link which we launched recently s. a.. Were kind of coming from the demand that the community was was this displaying discord and other places and I heard that you're also coming out with a centralized futures we are working on so Essentially it'll be decentralized bit mix or Darab it or a futures exchange you'll be able to take a leverage position on on in ascending like Bitcoin or eath and position and it'll be a perpetual future so let's walk through how this works so let Sammy user. I come near platform and I want to create some kind of sense for myself. What what do I need to do? So if you WANNA create send you sir you can't actually create a new sint. If you are just arrived in the platform you can only choose from the existing. Since one of the Mendez Mendez. gotcha Jim that's right. Yeah if you WANNA mint a saint than you know you need s necks and you essentially will it will turn up at mentor. Arches our data that we used for minting uh-huh and maintaining your position and you'll lock s and x and against the value of that collateral. You'll mint synthetic asset so within entry can only meant SEO state But with contracts you commit any of this that gossip so you could mitt synthetic bitcoin for example and again it's very similar to make her vault salt or maker. CDP where you lock es and then you get issued this debt which is a synthetic asset Storms Oh okay so sorry. Let me me walk through this again so I show up at mentor and then I have to give it eighth in order to get as an ax is at it. Sorry yes view. If you don't have as an ex you need to get estimates from somewhere so you would Are the body as an expert e or for something else but once you've got s an ex you you can lock that as snacks and issue that you'll stay against it. Okay so I go to inter with my s and X and then I turn that into St and then from there I can move into any other since is that is that it. So in order to create the s the next though people need to over collateralized anything it's by roughly seven hundred percent. Why is it so high? Because the liquidity of connects is what low so the ideas that eventually as a cruise value as liquidity grows will be able to lower that clutter relationship. But it's sort of a reflection of the risk profile of ethnics versus say eath right now collateral. Oh Okay we'll do you have any plans to add any other types of collateral. We do actually were working on a proposal to add as a form of collateral to the network which hopefully will go live later this year or early next year? Okay so earlier you talked about how one of the ways that you got traction on the platform was to change the monetary supply and I guess give some of the rewards to people who were stinking. So will that still be the same if they're sticking eath rather than s annex. No one it's it's a slightly different approach. So the the people who stay connects will get a full rewards from a trading end The inflation so trading on the exchange as well as the the inflation supply people who eat just have a ride to come in trade synthetic acid. So won't wants. equilateral goes live. You'd be able to turn up with eighth. You would need to have snacks. You'd be able to mint synthetic eve against that and then start trading on synthetics exchange immediately and the advantage against to someone who's holding eat is that it doesn't force them to convert Ethan to Essex or into one of the sense they can still hold there east and trade without connotation the risk of of selling down there opposition. I seem okay so this is sort of like how currently amongst people who have created as an ex only about eighty percent of them I think will actually tell me if I understood this correctly I think about eighty percent of them are sticking it. Is that right about eighty percent of the supply state so okay the total okay and then so the remaining are doing trading it. Yes some of them are just sitting on a not taking Some of them Abbott sitting and exchanges sounds probably lost an on state will You know something happens at purdue the works so there's any number of reasons that someone might decide not to stay rather than his fate in the network okay so essentially when you start adding eve as a collateral or when when you add it as a collateral type then what is likely to happen. Is that the current stickers will still basically have a similar incentive but they might earn more in fees because there might be more trading activity. Something like that. That's exactly right. Yeah that's it. It's just a easier easiest way to get people to trade more okay. Yeah it was just wondering because as you know the the actually this is an interesting question. So let's see see here so I like in so many other systems taking you know is correlated with security is that is that really the function that it's it's providing here it's slightly different so you know year securing at the pool of assets. I guess although the pool of debt by putting your cloud there you're taking a risk. Sony Lock has an ex you take the risk of the total value of the debt cool. That's that's out there. So you're providing that service to someone to allow them to turn an open repress their dead so you're securing the debt pool essentially but obviously we rely on the network for the actual security thirty of the tokens cells consensus etc into. This is like a slightly weird question but we were talking about this really high collateralisation federalization ratio and how s an ex isn't very liquid. Is there any possibility of some kind of a black swan event or something where like people Somehow settling cannot actually pay back there. They're put sessions definitely. That's one of the big risks that you take as long committing So if if something happened to the deadpool's have said the deadpool increased By an order of magnitude then there will be more debt outstanding than the clutter value. Best Nex which would create some conduct. Downs potentially now there's mechanisms is that are in place to prevent that from happening But you know it's definitely possible and in fact back in July we had an issue with The price leads the Oracle which created just that scenario so There was a Baltimore trading exchange and the price feed For the crane one failed and then the ball was able to essentially create about two billion dollars of debt. Joseph is significantly higher than the the market cap of the s next collateral So that was something. That was kind of indignant one of the risks. That dogs isn't system so I was going to ask you about this. So when it's creating two billion dollars worth of debt that basically means that then if that bought or whatever wanted to kind of like close out of the ethnic system than they would need to pay back two billion dollars is that is that what that means. What does that mean so what it means is that the has two billion dollars worth of debt outstanding? But there's only atomic. There was about thirty million dollars with collateral. So do the Basically never be able to cash out that position does not enough your collateral value. It would be like if there was a million dollars. Those with eight locked up tissue die and then on the dice I was inflated to a Billion Dollars is on the a million dollars with the beef there so the first million can be claimed after that it does not There's no value there to be claimed. So essentially the system was insolvent and the ball was unable to to close that position than get the Prophet. Okay okay so we're actually going to talk a little bit more about what happened there in a little bit By actually just wanted to talk a little bit more about this the staking and the S. and stuff. So I think some other thing. That's a little bit interesting to me about how the sticking works here is. It's not what it's not similar to staying on other platforms where people can basically just earn passive returns. Am I am I right in thinking that yes so you you know typically would staging you have some level of responsibility You're you're providing a service this things like Live pier where you're providing adding service routing nodes You know if you're staying in two zero. You're providing security to the network so typically there is some responsibility in some action. You have to take an amount announ at work that action is. You're providing the collateral essentially the network security debt. Okay all right and so all right so then we talked about how now you're GonNa add and when are you going to add. When are you gonna add either as a collateral type working on at the moment? We're hoping hoping to get it done by the end of the year. But it's looking at mark the early next year. Things are tracking and for the monetary supply. You said that you know right now. It's pretty pretty high inflation. But that's GONNA go down. So what is Like the the monetary policy yes. It's actually an interesting question. At the moment we have a inflationary supply that hobbes every year and that Hav Ning event is coming up in March But some people within the community munity at have proposed change to that inflation schedule to smooth central Something that I was personally against initially but come around onto the fact that I think it makes sense. So it's it's basically been pasta. We've had a couple governments Kohl's where it's been discussed and the community has kinda reached consensus that it's right thing to I do is a couple of minor things around the parameters for The timbale inflation still being discussed. But they'll be a vote on that Hopefully in the next week or so and then it will be implemented. So that's the change by the end of the year and will mean that yet. The inflation goes from a million tokens that it started out to somewhere around three hundred bucks. Okay and is that just in perpetuity. Or is there ever going to be recap that's reached so the it looks like the consensus is to have a petrol sent inflation approximately. It might be a little bit fire a little bit lower and intent behind that is to ensure that we've got some additional supply of Essex to fund the incentives that are outside of the system. So we've got some incentives at the moment around at Uni swap to incentivize woody. They're absolutely WANNA make sure that we continue to have that ethnic supply to be able to incent. Fox's walks this external things outside of political all right so in a moment we're going to discuss oracles and we're gonNA talk more about that. That could have made this system insolvent but first a quick quick word from the sponsors who make this show possible will the world follow France and advocate banning. Privacy coins will government-backed stable coins. Become the new Fiat are distributed and peer to peer exchanges. Just a flash in the pan the answer is maybe virtual currencies can flourish and create a new private five it and more versatile economy put that grand vision can't happen without keeping crypto clean and that requires support of governments and accountability for for bad actors. Privacy enhanced compliance using cryptographic controls has the potential to preserve anonymity without compromising legitimate investigations. 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So can you tell us exactly how they were able to to make that hack happened. Yes Oh so. They were looking at. The price feeds. That were being published On chain and they were reading the mental abso they're reading all the transactions that are sitting waiting to be confirmed honors and they took the Ah those feeds and they were able to essentially front run. The pricing changes so They would detect the press. Change happen and they would move into that That asset and then as soon as was updated they leave while set and we had some measures to prevent that speed bumps and things like that were working on on but the the Bob was scandal. That was pretty good at detecting a log canoe was going to happen and it was fairly profitable. It was making Komo around attempts today or something like that you know would the trading But then we had an issue where there was this cascading failure oath else. Our oracle four yards. So we have a number of Yasser medium-sized and several of them. Failed in different ways simultaneously which we didn't have A good mechanism to prevent Or to alert us to and the Balk was running and essentially detected this anomaly in the cow w price and and was able to trade I think it was five times back and forth between east end cow W and it was able to generate about two billion dollars with delegates at the time so essentially May this system insolvent and we then had to work out a away at rollback that well so let's just give a little bit of context on how it is that the price that Oracle Oracle prices get pushed as far as I understand right now it's synthetics or at least back then. It was synthetics pushing the price. Is that correct. And if so like how are you determining the pricin. Listen Yeah so yes. We had some commercially Biaz that were essentially being pulled into a system in Yup the aggregates were taken allies. Will these were four. API so they were coming from new. Promotional for expert riders so A ton of them around and we picked what we thought were four or five pretty good ones. Unfortunately the the The four Sir Sir. Less robust than the ice from our experience which was kinda surprising to also. We have a lot more protection. Around the CRYPTO. Eight the odds. Because we're worried that there will be he just like here but it was actually the excellence that The created the issue. Okay and so one other thing that I wanted to ask was later later on this same trader then row this read it posed and this was like a few months later. Actually an this person complained that you you had jacked up. Their fees deleted their balance and forcing the trade. They're sent for S. USD doesn't appear to be sort of the same incident. It's kind of like well let me recap and and you can correct anything that is incorrect here but essentially after the first incident. You kind of said okay. We're GONNA pay you this This bounty fee and now anything that use basically GONNA help us make our platform better something like that or actually want you to sort of describe what happened. Yeah so you know it was as you can imagine somewhat of an adversarial compensation station knows. It was a bit of hostage negotiation because the the trader was well aware of the fact that the system is insolvent and if they didn't cooperate with us you know we would have had to force the system or if there would have been a significantly larger impact So getting into rollback. The trade was definitely the the best solution An initially they wanted pretty exorbitant amount of money to To do that and we were able to negotiate down to something more reasonable we ended up paying the one two thousand dollars with aids to quote and roll back the trades But this this trader was pretty As as said pretty adversarial pretty aggressive and arrogant about not they were doing and their ability to kind of Front system in our inability to stop them and so we basically said looking keep attacking the system. We're working on a number of of mechanisms to prevent that and it's crypto adversarial right. We're going to try and fight back And you know what what we can do to kind of make this less profitable And unfortunately the the Calculus that I guess we came to. was that if you don't have any punishment there's no downside to someone who's attacking the system the optimal strategies strategy energy just to keep attacking the worst. You can do is not prophet than this was only going to escalate. And so we're we basically worked out that would need to have some kind of slashing edition implemented in order to reduce the profitability of these balls and so we implemented that It worked I. We're able to slash his trader and then came back and said well I'm going to continue to attack the system did and it was kind of this running battle and it has this is going on with different. Traders and from bolts probably select lost six months. It's been a big amount of effort that kind of had to implement a number of different functionality to the storm running which is kind of a constant i. Guess Wow okay. I bet it's making your platform better better very very very fast. One thing that I was wondering about though is like what what exactly are they exploiting so so I understand so I understand that. It's this knowledge of you know a tree that's about to happen. And kind of what. The oracle prices but as part of that also because does maybe just like the frequency with which you can update the prices is like a bit slower than you would like. Yeah that's exactly right. It's just latency so they're observing. What's happening in the world and we're observing in? We publish something to say. This is what's happened in the real world and they are able to essentially essentially publish it on chain foster than us. That's that's their intent. That's what they're trying to do We've gone to a point now where we've basically been able to reduce the front running to you or at least reduce the profitability. From running. You know two maybe pasta percents day or one percent a day which is kind of within our risk tolerance were sitting now Against said this is an arms race in every time we make a change the bolts update and they try and attack the system and improve their. So it's definitely improving the system making It's making it much more robust But it's it's certainly been a lot of effort and a lot of engineering time to kind of work on all these issues of whilst six months. And how do you make the improvements anyway. If as you mentioned in the original incident the API's that fails weren't even in your control draw to what we've basically been doing his upgrading. The Oracle and we're working on a moving away Synthetic still runs the article But hopefully by the end of the year will start migrating away from our own centralized to a chain link We've been working with the chain of team to build old set of articles that will be much hard front on And you know. Put some mechanisms in place to prevent people from trading and to to cover some educators that they've been using if they are trying to front run system But as I said it's it's kind of a balance between usability because some of these things impact eight at usability for regulators We've had to kind of try and find a balanced where you never really going to get rid of front running completely But you can reduce visit to the point where you know. It's less Floor or also in baffle. So I don't know a ton about chain link but can you describe how that system will differ once it's integrated then what you have now so essentially you. They're just doing what we doing ourselves. But they've got a a distributor group of people that are consuming these extra Annoyed Etcetera and a lot of them are data providers. Already have the data So they've got access that data themselves and they take these different Node operators who kind of aggregating Donna and then media GNAWS in publishing long chain and so what essentially gone is our Oracle Times seven or twenty or thirty on the asset that the press is being published for which is makes it such robust Than than what we're using right now so we're pretty confident that once we get that in place We won't have any future issues swooped outages but it doesn't necessarily solve the front running problem we still have is there. And it will that increase their frequency frequency by which you can take the oracles. Actually want this this kind of fundamental latency that you have the Theorem Theorem So something that we're also looking at is a layer to solutions that will allow us to publish process. Much more rapidly to right now. The only way we can prevent event People from exploiting latency is forcing them. which is what some centralized exchanges do? They participate bump in To prevent people from being up to your high frequency traders being able to publish things before Everyone else can. And so we were putting these speed bumps in to ensure that Someone con look at the trends actually brought cost trying to front Going to definitely slow within it up but as I said a trade off between Between DOC and usability of the platform because if the speed bump is to Bressette then it makes it harder for regular shirt is to trade. I saw in a blog. Post that you wrote do that. Once chain link is integrated that will allow anyone to build and run an oracle to obtain price feeds for sense. So what does that look like. Exactly in how. How would you expect? That would change the platform. I think it changes the platform because it moves away from this centralized control that the team has now now. Your core team has so once again to a point where there are these extra arkell providers anyone in the community can essentially request depress speed up APSO palladium enough people off for pre regularly. So you know the community can say where putting a proposal to add playdium token and and then provided these note operators who are running a chain lymph nodes can source prosper played in Credibly produce said we cannot that sent in a dozen require necessarily intervention from the team directly to provide that prostate so That's going to be beneficial when we look at things like synthetic equities so s Apple Tesla. That are hurting palladium. Thing threw me a little bit if you like this one of those this moments where. You're like in Crypto and then you're like oh there's yet another rabbit hole. I could go down. People are deep and deployed in for some reason so I guess okay. So you are also had a recent tweets to arm about moving to chain link and and you talked about how some people objected to it because it's not maximally decentralized and then you wrote something that I found really interesting you said quote we are very comfortable not using maximally. Decentralize is Oracle because chain link is more than sufficient to move the Oracle attack vector to the bottom of our censorship vector stack which means governance and other issues become Become the highest priority. So what did you mean when you said that Chain Lincoln's more than sufficient to move the Oracle attack vector to the bottom autumn of your censorship factor vector stack. So essentially. What I was saying is at the moment you could theoretically round up up five or six people in the community and you know throw us in jail and project down right Again I think about these things from you know very sorry adversaries perspective right even though. That's not likely right now. It's it's possible and and so so long as long as possible. We want to eventually be able to prevent it from happening. And the reason why the main reason why you could get away with that and up five people and trump project down is the our whole once. The oracle and almost the price speeds needs are being published independently on chain and the has just consuming those price feeds. Then if you were to do that if you use. Let's round up those those four able and lock them up It would be very easy for the community given that everything that were doing everything. Other than the Oracle is open source loss to essentially fork particle Or do hod spoon and Margaret State and redeployed on chain and keep the system going And you know. I think we're getting pretty close to that. But the limiting factor right now is definitely the article so as soon as they are is US and as soon as it's independent it's GonNa be a huge qualitative state in terms of the censorship resistance of their portal super interesting says something when we referenced earlier that We didn't go into much. Was You talked about how somebody could sell. You know like a million dollars worth of Bitcoin or or whatever amount and there would be zero slippages slippage. So how how is that possible. So it's also because someone is able to repress the debt so one of the rights that you have if you're holding dead whether you mentioned whether you bought it from someone for eighth or whatever you can turn up the contracts and you can say I have have ten synthetic bitcoin convert that into synthetic US dollars and the system will quote you a race on current spot price and the articles publishing the two assets and takes multi so thirty basis points fee which goes into the people. So that's a just a right that you have within the system which is you know? Obviously very beneficial and I think I brought up maker earlier There was someone on twitter. Andrew Tang who actually didn't analysis of slippage on Union's fault for maker versus synthetics. And I think this slippages about fifty percent less for Trading Maker owns that exchange change. So you're the kind of M. C. D. transition winemaker pumped up to like me six fifty or seven hundred and the drop down. A lot of people were trading s maker maker was actually more efficient to trade Shames than pockets. And why is it that it's more efficient efficient on synthetics than unusual so useful because it uses the automatic mark making function has you kind of this built-in slippage so you know the lodge of the order. You trade the most Huguet also I think yes. Like one percent slippage for like a fifty thousand dollar order order for example whereas with dyes that accepting kit was thirty basis points source. Okay Yeah and also I guess it's just too. I mean it's probably obvious to people but why don't you just talk about how synthetics differs from other decks is and then therefore how the the trading behavior on synthetics differs from another deck says Yes oh typically other debts excluding unique swap unions. Welcome Synthetic Sir In their own category of these Lapierre contract decentralized exchanges but in a typical decks like right relay or or something like that that's using Zero X protocol. You need to find a counterparty to to match order So you know if you want to make her anyone rush. AC Two thousand dollars with maker that needs to be some of the side is willing to buy that and in any market where you're matching counterpart is going to be slippage. And so that's something thing that is kind of exacerbated indexes and it's one of the reasons why you need swap so powerful because you don't need to wait for counterparty to trade. You just have to accept the. Don't be some slippage but you'll always get a quote you'll never be in situ Sell you know the the trade the trade. It's just a question of willing to deal. The slippage and synthetic exchanges is kind of similar. You can always turn up so long as you got debt and trade that amount of debt for different as and I think I saw you were saying that the average trading sites on synthetics as a lot higher than another exchange or at least another another taxes is that right. Yeah that's right yeah it's it's typically quite a bit higher because you know you you just have people who want trade great say twenty thousand dollars thirty thousand dollars that they couldn't trade on another decks and obviously you know centralized exchanges. There's there's more liquidity because they're just much bigger bigger markets but as the synthetic asset pool. Rose is the deputy grows It's possible that we could see orders of five million ten million dollars for example and so how are fees set on synthetics so at the moment. It's a flat thirty point eight And then there's an additional fee if you're moving from a long token to a short token When this is again one of the kind of trade offs that we built in to to prevent front running so if you go from s maker which has long version two I make which is the short version? You pay sixty basis points and who decides what those fees are well the community side so we had the fee set at fifty basis points up until a few days and one of the community members are put in a proposal to reduce it back to thirty basis points which congressman sitting at historically In that post pre unanimously. And so the AH these are updated. So it's again handled by a rough consensus within this court channel on within the community and we have talked about UNICEF swap of few different times but as far as Anderson UNICEF hop also has been kind of pivotal to the success of synthetics. Thanks how cell so this this very strong kind of symbiosis swap. When you need it was announced it was? It's very obvious to me that it was going to become quite powerful for defy portables And particularly for us because we need a liquid on ramps and off ramps need to know that those those on ramps always going to be there. We need people's we able to get into the devil out of Deadpool in order to trade on that exchange and so What we did Earlier this year was to incentivize people to pull the quantity into the synthetic equal. And so that's now grown to be the largest Pool I'M UNI SWAP Does typically it's one of the top exchanges in terms of volume on a daily basis as well And so now so you can move in and out of synthetics exchange this unique swap pool and slip just pretty minimal for Trades up ten thousand dollars or so which is pretty good so the average trail trying to move in and out that exchange can go through uni swap pretty comfortably and something that You know we you talked about earlier was how you change the monetary policy and You know how you started the project one way but at end up going in a different way and you know how you had maybe one thought to do a synthetic Stable coin and then later you realize people wanted volatility and I've also I heard you talk about the importance of iterations so just with all the different twists and turns that your project has taken like tell us kind of what the lessons for you have been in like kind of what the different things are. That happened that made you realize like Oh. It's better to go this way. Then that way I mean I think startups Just operate that way. You know there's a lot of Apache You're trying to run up and trying to predict what's going to happen It's almost impossible and really just need to play small bets and respond to what the market says and we replace a very large which you you could argue is kind of dumb That regulated statement once wouldn't be thing and then when all of the sudden they were we realize that you know at the market that we were attempting not to address had been pulled off Madras and you just need to respond to those things so we looked at what we built. And we're pretty comfortable that it was a very powerful Oracle Colin and would have a lot of value but we just needed to find the right market for it and so you know be Sunday shooting assets and again another kind of small bet. That didn't really play out. Was this idea that if you had multiple currencies people would be happy to move in between those currencies and that turned out to really be the case. Either there's not a lot of demand for that But we dizzy demand for is you know. Trading volatile assets and having access to A number of different doses and FIA currencies and commodities and other wrestle on similar platform where you really see product market fit and generates real interest. Don't what about that moment when you had had this confrontation with the traitor. Who had built the bought that you know had Nearly major system insolvent ah like at that moment. What do you feel like the lessons? Were for you and for other entrepreneurs in the space I mean you know. I've been running socks for a long time and Most of them have failed. startups tend to do. And you're you always have these crisis moments and do things. There is a point. Where off you've been ensue? Through so many crisis the prices you you kind of become a new to them a little bit and you can kind of detached and not become emotionally invested in. What's what's happening? And in that moment it was really just about okay. How do I resolve this specific issue? This right in front of me and not really thinking through the implications and consequences but it was almost three hours. I think we're negotiating with him out of rollback system so it was. It was pretty high stress environment But you know again. I think having gone through similar issues in other startups where things blew up. You just have to roll with in your treat. The situation that's in front of you deal with that directly so something also. That's come up a few times in this show. Oh is you know you talked about how you made this decision to change your monetary policy and. I could just imagine that when you decided that you thought that that would be a good idea that you might be nervous about presenting it to the community. So was there any community input on that and so how did you factor that in. Yeah we you know I actually had originally came up with the idea You're almost died eight months before before four and so at Dad's call on You know there were a number of people that were cycles in project. That I kinda put Seiden Auden said. Hey what do you think about this and it was. It was reasonably positive. There was definitely some skepticism around it. And is this just kind of some Hail Mary to Eh to try. And get attention for project or something like that But you know I was able to make the case. I think that the issue had was was. We weren't properly incentivizing people to understand article and you know when you look at things like Bitcoin for example and how the coin generates network. That's Vecsey was because it was paying people to understand it you know. The protocol itself paid people to learn how to install mining software. And understand your block rewards and all that stuff and I think think that didn't insist it probably doesn't get any attraction that That it did and so you know I looked at that and I said we need something similar to incentivize people to care about this and to actually learn about it and I think we're able to convince most of them but even still pretty surprised. I expected a lot of pushback from the community when we announced it but interestingly they were they were super positive about it I think mainly because most of them already understood the the network. And we're essentially you're saying we're GONNA pay you for understanding and you know people who are not actually participating will be punished and so it was. It was much more positively received than inspect margin. Yeah and this is kind of like a theme of the conversation where there's this tension because certain elements laments of what you're doing are centralized at least at the moment but then You know just even the things like when I asked about about the exchange fees and stuff you said Oh actually that was set by the people in the discord and like the the defy index was decided sided by community members. So what you know what is going on with governance like right now. I know you guys have a foundation but at some point I think you'd like to move to a doubt Alison. What's your vision for how this will be governed? Yup I mean obviously. We're quite a small team. I think people don't realize how small team is And you know how how hard working the engineers in one of the team is to kind of keep the project going but it's just impossible symbol for seven or eight people to kind of anticipate everything that could happen. You can respond to things but the trying to understand Where we should go next just requires the inside of a much larger group of people and so the community has really stepped up up and become pivotal in in helping us to understand what we need to go next and see some of the issues and oftentimes? We don't necessarily immediately really agree. You know the the the core team might kind of look up proposal and CEO. We don't think that's a great idea But you know the the rough consensus model kind out of allows or those debates in those discussions to kind of evolve over time and you know most of the time we kind of reached consensus both internally within within the team and within the community and are able to move forward. But it's just not possible with a complexes this is to not have that Outside input Until we really try to foster to watch as possible that be as open as we head to bringing in outside views but then then I mean for the future. Do you think that you might move now. I think I think we might something that were. Were looking at right now. In order thrust to stay ahead of the kind of potential regulatory issues that are coming up we need to be in control all the protocol and so you know rough consensus helpful and bringing those external parties but at some point we need to. I guess relinquish control You know the protocol operate great ability and so that's something that we're looking at potentially could be managed by Dow But you know it's something that we need to I guess you understand a little bit better and you walk through the implementation. Looks like as well as working with the community and and letting them kind of against help us understand what they want. I'm from from that because if you if you move on chain governance and you implemented Dow and the Dow is controlled by this plutocracy as we've seen in in a couple of other projects emerge I think it has a really chilling effect on participation within within the community. And so we're we're really wearing trying to thread. Read that needle and managed. I guess and as mentioned earlier you guys also didn't I see oh and I think he raised about thirty every million. Is that right in two thousand eighteen and and I believe from a conversation that we had you think it was. Maybe from about. Seventy seventy thousand wallets. Is that right So there's about seventy thousand wall to hold out token But a lot of that came from a very large airdrop. Do we did that was I. Think about sixty thousand while it so they were five or six thousand people who participated in the sale You're in the in the open sale And then you know there were bounties airdrops and things like that okay well in addition to that you also recently did a small. VC raise. He's like what was the purpose of that race. So we have a large treasury will say that is mainly ethnic tokens opens And it was really about bringing I guess new stakeholders and there's been a lot of interest in people participating in the political And one of the challenges of having not that much in a spot markets is that if someone wants to get two three four five million tokens that really can only get it from the foundation and so as demand grew and more people were interested. We started Have some stations and those people and we ended up going with a framework ventures who've been amazing you're participating in all aspects of the system that kind of helped to work on the inflationary Challenges well so we. I think we picked the right team fun of come in and help us. But we need as a set to bring in external stakeholders stakeholders and and people who can kind of help to push things forward. So you know if you find the right people In the future will look at you. Know Selling Tokens out of the treasury to them as well to to get them into the system. And there were also rumors about entries in Horowitz taking an interest. What was that about? I I mean you know there's a there's a wallet that is controlled by By Sixteen Z.. That has this next tokens in it. It didn't come from the foundation directly But it looks like they're they do have a position in that exist look on chain so Really find it much more information than that. 'cause yeah that's that's all I know but You know there's a lot of people in our community who are very good with chain analysis and work out what was going we on and it was on twitter before I knew anything about it so it was kind of an interesting I guess there's so. Many incidents like dining crypto. Well yes like those base In other interviews. You've mentioned that you have confidence that centralized allies finance will consume centralized financial eventually. But that right now. There's a lot of challenges. What are the biggest challenges? I think the main challenge is is that we still haven't obstructed enough complexity away for the average user And that kind of flows all the way through the stock ride so you use your interfaces and user experiences still you know pretty far behind centralized finance I think the other issue is there's a lot of friction. I'm getting money in and out of the system getting valiant system. So you know it's going to take at least You know a few years I think before we can kind of bring all all of this This kind of complexity much lower and just remove it and provide I guess experiences for users and products fuses without then. We'll tapping the background all right. Well we'll see how you and others resolve all these problems are all these challenges says where can people learn more about you and synthetics best place is probably too you know if you really want to dive in to jump into this for channel But you know you can go to synthetic Sato if you want to have a look at the system and get an overview. We also have a dashboard which is dashboard. taught synthetics dot. Io which gives said view of the network which is kind of consensus in the open interest is a Cetera. Great well thanks for coming on unchained breath. Thank you very much really. Thanks so much for joining us today to learn more about Cain and synthetics check other shows inside your podcast player. If you're not yet subscribed cried to my other podcast unconfirmed which is shorter that news year and now features short. Newsweek hopped sure to check that out. Also find out what I think are the top crypto stories each week why signing signing up for my email newsletter at unchained podcast dot com unsheathed produced by me. Laura Shin with help from fast recording. Anthony Yoon Daniel Josh Durham And the team at Sialkot transcription. Thanks for listening taste.

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How to Trade on Crypto Exchanges Without Fear of Hacks - Ep.120

Unchained

1:07:46 hr | 1 year ago

How to Trade on Crypto Exchanges Without Fear of Hacks - Ep.120

"Hi everyone. Welcome unchain, your no hyper source for all crypto. I'm your host rush interested in the crypto weekend. Retrea. I'm teaching melting Mears point shares and Challah show, computer of future perfect ventures. If so be sure to check on his show for the link to sign up. Also unchanged is now on YouTube. You can find the most recent episodes there every week on unchained podcast channel. And if you're not yet subscribed might weekly newsletter go now to unshaved podcast dot com to sign up cypher trees makes it easy for exchanges and crypto businesses to comply with crypto currency anti money laundering laws. Avoid illegal sources of funds and maintain healthy banking relationships cypher trees is helping you grow the crypto economy by keeping it. See and secure on may twenty seventh I will be hosting a conversation about the future of finance and human rights. The Oslo Freedom Forum in Norway. As the world continues to move towards a cashless society paper currency is disappearing companies like Facebook apple, and ten cent are becoming increasingly influential in the digital payments states. We'll discuss how individuals and companies can preserve and protect financial freedom in the digital age, I'll be joined by bitcoin, author and educator. Jimmy song Hossa chief technology officer Elena for Nova point center founder, jury Brito and bit fury group, vice chairman, George king pausing to register to attend. You can visit Oslo Freedom Forum dot com today. Use discount code unchanged. Twenty five to get twenty five percent off your ticket price. My guest today is Sharon Goldberg, co founder and CEO, VAR, win and computer science professor at Boston University. Welcome, Sharon, hi, thanks for having me. So let's talk about our win your new project. What problem are you trying to solve with Arwen? Right. So Arwen is a new way to trade at centralized exchanges. The idea is that you could trade on central. Crypto exchanges orderbook without trusting the exchange to custody or coins and our notion of trust looseness is really strong? We guarantee that, even if the exchanges hacked in the middle of the trade, your coin should not be at risk. So what are win does is it creates its cryptographic protocol that allows you to transact with the exchange and settle your transactions without ever having to put your coins in the custody of the exchange? And how did you come up with the idea for this protocol? Yeah. So that that's kind of like a long story, and I can I can sort of start at the beginning, which is my background and how I got into the space. I have a PHD in computer science focused on cryptography and networking. And so, really my, my most fundamental background and how I got into my whole career is through cryptography which I started in two thousand and six. So when you when you were sort of, basically trained as a cryptographer, the kind of problems that you wanna solve. Are you have two parties like a NBC that wished to transact, but they don't trust each? So it's usually Allison Bob, and they want to do something, but also doesn't trust Bob. Bob doesn't trust Alice. And so what cryptographer is do they build protocols to allow these two parties to communicate with each other without trusting each other? That's kind of like the fundamental problem that I've been trained to solve for the last, you know, thirteen fourteen years. And so we came into the blockchain space about, let's say what four or five years ago, where we started looking at the security of bitcoin security, cerium, and then getting into designing also protocol, the build on top of Blockchain's. And so for me with the background that I have the very first question that I that I always ask is, like, who do you need to trust in order to accomplish this particular goal? So when you look at the market right now of centralized exchanges. You regularly see, unfortunately you see compromises the centralized exchanges where people's deposits on those exchanges are getting stolen, you know, starting with the mount gawks hack, which is, you know famous from a long time ago. We're still seeing. Them recently saw by Nance get hacked, and basically, what happens is that the coins that traders are depositing at the exchange are being stolen by hackers. So essentially, what's happening here is you have the traitor, being required to trust the exchange in order to trade, those cryptographer. The first question you ask is, how can you allow the trader to trade on the exchange without having to trust the exchange with their coins, and that's really, how we came up with, like the idea of transacting on a centralized exchange without needing to trust the exchange? And I wanna go back to another piece of your bio that I thought was interesting, which is I believe that you actually started in electrical engineering. And so, how did you make the switch to cryptography? Okay. Yeah. So when I started it was like nineteen ninety nine when I started school, so at the time, like I wasn't really computer science wasn't so much on the map. So I studied, electrical engineering I went through this program called engineering science where you could choose what stream of engineering you wanted to do. And they were like civil engineering and nanotechnology biotechnology. So. Ended up choosing electrical engineering and what I liked about electrical engineering was the precision, you know, you can use formulas to characterize activities in the physical world or building systems and things like that. What happened was, I discovered kind of, like, as I got further up in my in my case in. So when I started my PHD I was working on optics like the communication using light. I found that this was all very imprecise very analog, and there were a lot of sort of fudge factors that were preventing you from, like, really characterizing the systems you were building using math. And so when I took cryptography for the first time in two thousand and five I was just super excited about the ability to represent the physical world and relationships and trust using that, that was, you know, fully capturing everything that was going on in the situation and for me that was like the big driver to sort of drop everything that I was doing and, and stop really being an electrical engineer and start becoming a computer scientists, and studying cryptography and all of that. So it's really the precision the ability to, to characterize tr. Relationships in mathematical way that really drew me into the field at the beginning. And then when you were also describing how you came to found are win. You kept saying we got into the space four five years ago. So what did you who were you referring to in what happened at that time? Yeah. So what happened is that? So I'm a computer science professor at Boston University. I've been there for, I think this is nine years now in twenty thirteen I had a new student whose name was Ethan Heilmann, and he joined my lab, and I was working on internet, routing security and cryptography at that time, and I was really excited about that stuff. And so, I was, you know, at that point like five or six years into this long research program on, on internet, routing security, and basically all these protocols that formed the guts of the internet communication network, and so even showed up, and he was obsessed with bitcoin, and at the time, there was only bitcoin there was really nothing else. He just would not stop talking about bitcoin, and basically, we figured out the only way to get like productive. Search out of this person was to do bitcoin research, and so we did and it ended up being amazing in my most. Cited research, paper is actually with, with Ethan, that we wrote in two thousand fifteen which is the first paper that we, we did on in the blockchain space and what we did there was. We were basically the first to consider how bitcoin nodes actually communicate and find each other because prior to our work, everyone sort of -ssume that like any note. That's participating in a blockchain knows what the blockchain is. So has the same data about what the blockchain is? And that was sort of an underlying assumption in all of the analysis of blockchain up to that point. And we had realized that, like there's a communication layer here. There's a network here. What does this network? How can you attack it? And we did one of the first attacks on the actual communication layer of bitcoin that resulted in changes in the in the bitcoin protocol in two thousand fifteen so that was me. Ethan, and even really pulled me into this space over the last six years, that I've been working with him, sort of culminating in founding Arwen in twenty seventeen and basically. Working on it together for the last couple of years. And so you started to describe kind of briefly. How are when works? But let's go into it in a more detailed fashion. Why don't you just walk me through what it looks like when someone trades using win. Right. So with our win the idea is that you wouldn't deposit your coins into exchange custody. You would use your own custodian to custody or coins while you trade. So the way that this plays out is we used this concept called S grows. So if you're very deep into the blockchain space, you're probably familiar with layer two protocols like the lightning network, and there's various other layer to projects, they're like plasma and others that are built on theorem so with Arwen what we do is we have these S grows where if you're going to trade, let's say bitcoin into coin cash, you're going to have s curves on the bitcoin blockchain and esker on the bitcoin cash blockchain, the idea is that every coins, blockchain acts as the agent of escrow for trading that point if I'm trading bitcoin. Bitcoin blockchain will be agent of escrow. And so what you do is instead of taking your coins into positing them in the exchanges wallet. What you do is you deposit them into an escrow on the blockchain so bitcoins. Go into bitcoin escrow on the bitcoin blockchain and then that s backs you're traits with the exchange so trades themselves are happening instantly in the sense, the same way that you would place, a trade today, you know, for instance, through the of an exchange you just place, a trade through the that's exactly what Arwen does here, placing trades through the of the exchange. But what we have in front of that PI is basically the Arwen protocol that translates, your trades into a cryptographic, atomic swap messages. But they happen instantly. So at the end of the day, what are we looks like is you take your coins? You put them in, escrow, 's you do trade backed by those S grows. And then when you're finished trading, you would close your escrow and your coins, would return to your wallet. So it's sort of functionally similar to trading today where you would deposit coins street on the exchange in withdraw coins. But the difference, is that instead of depositing into the exchange. Depositing into these escrow and Arwen guarantees that even if the exchange gets hacked goes off line, you'll still be able to close your escrow and claim all the coins that you've treated. So there's something that I don't know if I fully understand here, so I put my coins that I wanna trade into an escrow, and then that smart contract the escrow talks to the exchange. So then at what point does the atomic swap happened because, as far as I understand that can just happen directly between two blockchain, so no. I don't understand where the exchange comes in. Yeah. So the escrow are not the atomic swat. So the extras are smart contract on. Whatever blockchain, it is that you're using. So, for instance, bitcoin versus if you're him, you might have to ask rose. One onto coin blockchain, one on each area blockchain. And then you're doing atomic swaps that are backed by those to us. So there will be a message that adjusts the balance in your bitcoin, escrow, and also, I'm a message that adjusts the balance in your theorem escrow and adjustment would be exactly the value traded. So, for instance, if you're selling one bitcoin, your bitcoin Esca would be minus one. And if you're buying, you know, to east, then you're. Theory, escrow would be plus two. And those, those messages, essentially are sent back and forth between you and the exchange, and they adjust the balance in your escrow. So now when you have those messages, you have the ability to close your escrow at anytime and claim the actual points that you've traded this is the idea of a layer two protocol where you don't have to actually go to the blockchain every time you do something you just create transactions that if you took them to the blockchain they would do something for you, right? So what we're doing is we trade. We create these messages that could close the screws for us with the balance after our trade, but we decided not to close the escrow, we decide to do another trade. And then we get these new transactions that could close the with the new balance of our trades, and we keep doing not until we actually decide to really closely escrow and take those messages and post them to the blockchain, so. Thing is for when you say, if I wanna trade BTC for eath, I'm not creating both escrow. Am I it's like getting one? And maybe if I am. Okay. So, so I have to either up into. Yeah. I have to put bitcoin into one escrow, and then I put up into the other escrow. Yeah. Okay. Let me let me rewind a little bit that, that part. So here's what would happen if you were to trade with Arlene. Let's say retreating from bitcoin to zero. So the first step that you would do is you take your bitcoin. You put them in an escrow where the agent of escrow is the bitcoin blockchain. Right. So that will collateralized trades of bitcoin. The second thing you need to do is you need to get an escrow of Syria, that will actually collateralized the purchase of theory that you're about to do. So the first step of our winter setting up the escrow that you fund it, and then which is the bitcoin escrow and setting up the sedition escrow, which we call an exchange, escrow, that's going to be funded by the exchange. So in in this particular example, when we're doing bitcoin to theory trading, you and fund a bitcoin escrow and the. Exchange would fund any theory escrow. Now, once you have those two escrow set up, you can do at Tomek swaps that are backed by those to ask. It. So what's happening is that the exchange is putting in cerium to collateralized your trades to collateral? Is your purchase of east and you are putting in bitcoin two collaterised, your sale of bitcoin, and then you're doing a swap across those to ask rose and across those two Blockchain's alone. That's super fascinating. So something than that, I wanna understand here is. Is there any central point affiliate in this process, so each party is sort of protecting itself? So in the sense that the guarantee, is that as long as they users machine is not compromised or their custodian is not compromised their guaranteed that they can close their escrow with the correct balance, regardless of what's going on the exchange side. Right. What's the exchange goes down stops talking, you won't be able to do anymore trades without exchange. Right. Because it's just not there. It's not accepting any traits, but you will have a particular balance in your escrow. So, for instance, you know, you sold one bitcoin, and you bought to east, so let's say exchanged disappears or lose access to its wallet or doesn't exit scam or something, you would be able to close your bitcoin escrow, and your theory, amass grow with the correct balance after you trade. That's what Arlen guarantees. So in terms of single point of failure. There is a point of failure in the sense that if the exchange goes down you can't trade there anymore. But it's not gonna cause you to lose your coins. And then there was another aspect of how this works that you described to me before where you talked about the so the are win protocol is, what Nabil's this to happen. But as far as I understand, there's also something that are when runs, which is the Arwen hub. So what role does that play? Right. So I just want to emphasize that Arwen provides the sort of the same similar value proposition two decentralized exchange in decentralized exchange. A lot of the goal is to have self custody of your coins. Not to trust the third party with custody of your coins. That's the same with Arwen the difference about Arwen for most centralized exchanges is that Arwen does not have its own separate orderbook, and its own separate ecosystem, like you might have for instance, in zero x protocol, or in ether delta, Arwen is going to be plugging into the order books of the exchange. So that's the big difference, because we plug into the order books of these change the traits have have to happen, necessarily as quickly as traits would happen in normal regular exchange. Custodial, so our trade, they're fast because they're actually just regular traits on the order book. So that's the big difference. You asked me about the Arlen hub. So what the Arwen hub is. It's basically a cloud system that speaks Arwen on behalf of the exchange. So it translates are win messages into messages that can be placed on the exchanges orderbook so rather than having the exchange like implemented entire are when protocol themselves, which is not very realistic. You know, my company writes, the rights Arwen hub, which will take Arwen protocol messages from traders and translate them, just in two regular API messages that will go into the orderbook of the exchange and is there any chance those messages could be hacked along the way? If they were in that would affect only the exchange but not the users themselves. Guarantee of the guarantee of Arwen is that each party takes care of themselves. The traders are going to be secure, even if the exchanges hacked, and the exchange is going to be secure. Even if the traders are act. Interesting. Okay. And then is our win limited in the types of exchanges that it works with or is it only centralized exchanges that you work with currently focused on centralized exchanges? We haven't looked at integration with decentralized exchanges. Yet, the reason for that is because we're focused on getting into the places where there's the highest amount of liquidity, which is currently the centralized exchanges. All right. And then we started to draw the contrast with trading on ducks. But can you flush that out even further like trading on our win versus trading on a decks? Yeah. Yeah. So there's one key difference, which is the sort of the fact that we're plugging into liquidity of a centralized exchange. If you're trading on our win, you could be the only user on that exchange and that's fine. You don't need to have your counterparty be another are when user can it's just basically trade that's going on the order book and being filled the normal way that a trade would be filled on orderbook. So that's really the key differentiator is that we don't we're not as dependent as dex is on the growth of the like. The network affects of that specific decks because we go into the exchange and use that the pricing from the, in the liquidity from the exchange itself, plus the key difference, there are other sort of other important differences, which are the speed is so Aren trades are not actually executed on the blockchain and so that means a couple of things means that we're not subject to slow blockchain confirmation chimes, any sort of confirmations, that have to hit the blockchain are for opening escrow and closing us growth, but not for trading. So the traits can happen fast. That's the first thing, the second thing is that when you do a trade with our win that trade is not visible to anyone except you and the exchange that you're placing the trade on. And so that's saves you from a lot of issues that are affecting decks right now have to do with front running. So in the decks, typical decks, is you execute your trade on the actual blockchain. So you're a trade will go to like any theorem smart contract, and the theorem smart contract will be the one to actually execute. The trade. So that means for your trade to actually happen. It needs to go through any theory, minor. And so that creates front running risks because of these Syrian minor doesn't like your trade or wants to front run your trade. They have the power to do that before the trade has actually executed. And so we see a lot of interesting front running tricks that are happening today. Like even now on a lot of DAX's, we sort of sidestep all of this, because there's no on blockchain execution of individual trades. So no, minors are really involved in the execution of the trade. So you lose all of these risks. So to sum up. Really? It's the liquidity of the exchanges orderbook, it's the speed because we don't go to the blockchain and it's the lack of front running because we don't have to involve minors and actually executing traits. Yeah. I was going to bring up that paper, the Phil Diana, Cornell wrote recently with some other academics about how arbitrage arbitrage spots indexes are doing certain things like paying high transaction fees, and taking advantage of network. Latency. To front run the ordinary tree the ordinary user traits on Dexia's. So it sounds like with our when that's exactly what I was getting into their. Yeah. Is there any situation in the future, where would ever make sense to try to implement something like our went on a decks or no? Is it only really for centralized exchanges? So are on a decks is tricky, because the, the model that we've taken with Arwen is well, I have to be careful about that actually, let me answer the, like level, one answer. And then I'll do the level to answer the level one answer is at our win on a decks of a little tricky because our win swaps. The movement of coins is from the users wallet to the exchanges wallet or to some sort of collateral party wallet. It's not with Alice's trading with counterparty Bob, where Ellis's, Arwen user, and Bob is not an Arwen user. Bob is just a regular custodial user of exchange. There's really no direct movement of funds from Alice's wallet to Bob's wallet. It's more. Let there's a movement of funds from Alice as well. To the exchanges wallet and even though that sounds strange. That's exactly what happens today. Like if you trade at, you know, pick your favorite exchange, the first thing you're gonna do is you're gonna move your coins into that exchanges wallet and then you'll do some trades and then you'll pull your coins out of that exchanges while it. So it's really traitor to exchange wallet coin movement. And that's what we have in Arwen. Right. And so that looks kind of different from what you have in the decks, where Dax is the movement of coins as peer to peer so with Alice trading with counterparty Bob, the actual swap will be from while it's about swallowed. The reason we took the approach was because we, we really wanted to inter integrate directly into centralized exchanges and not have to build kind of our own co system because we didn't think that was gonna take off as quickly and you can see that now with the liquidity indexes, we think that, that's you know, coming from the fact that you really need like the growth inside the ducks, and there's all these speed and front running shoes. So, so that's, that's kind of why the fact that it's from the users wallet to the exchanges. While it makes it really tricky to have it like fit directly into the ducks model. That's level, one answer level, to answer is that there's a lot of interesting things that are coming out now like finance decks, and we'll be decks, the and these are like, you know, very different from what someone has decks when you look at something like ether delta. And the difference is that these decks are really a Blockchain's separate Blockchain's that are supposed to allow you to trade like a large number of assets. So, for instance, the, the bindings chain, you can trade bitcoin on the binary chain. Right. And that's kind of weird because bitcoin is not issued by the by Nance chain. Bitcoin issued by the by the bitcoin blockchain. Right. So how do you actually trade bitcoin on the binds chain? And the way you do that is through a peg so finance chain. Currently uses this thing called BTC be, which is basically, bitcoin dot be pegged to real bitcoin. It's very similar to that. Tether is pegged to US dollars. And so, you know when you. Trade tether, you're not trading US dollars, but your trading and asset. It's US dollars. BT CBS similarly asset that's pegged to bitcoin. So to make a long story short that idea of going from the assets. Pegged BTC to the actual real bitcoin or going, you know, from real bitcoin into an asset. That's issued on the vines blockchain, that's kind of a place where our win can can come in and silicate some of that swapping and some of that security, the ideas that are win is designed to swap points from their native blockchain and so rather than having to kind of deposit, your bitcoin, Abacus Dody and withdraw. But because e you could use our wins swap directly from the bitcoin into whatever the assets natively issued on the bindings blockchain would be. So that's kind of one way that we could we could fit into a decks, but it's not really kinda plugging into either delta the way you, would you would think about it sort of at first glance. Super interesting. Yeah. So I guess it could be used in that fashion. That is actually really fascinating. And then one other thing I went as he about was when you kind of talked about why it is that you're more focused now on centralized exchanges. And how you get a certain level of speed. Does that mean that high frequency traders could also use our win? So we are paddling in that direction right now. So you have high frequency traders use Arwen. We need basically, by directional s grows that can you can sell in by on the same escrow. So if I put in bitcoin in an escrow right now you can sell the bitcoin out of that school. But you can't buy back with the current like product that we've launched as of today, but, you know, if you read our white paper and on our road map is to support both by sell, and so one could use that to very quickly, you know, like buyer bitcoin bitcoin by bitcoin, sell your bitcoin, which is what I think high frequency traders are really looking for. We're still doing a bunch of research on what the high frequency. Trading market would look like in the crypto world. What I'm hearing is that they're starting to be interest in building, H T, you know, data centers and using these strategies. But I'm not hearing that demand is that high for like HFC at this, that this specific moment, so we're sort of that's a little bit further on our road map, but we have the capability of doing that. And if you look at our white paper like the protocols for doing that are all laid out already in there in earlier when you were talking about why it is that you why are when works with centralized exchanges. I think something that's interesting. Is that Hugh went in that direction while at the same time in the industry, sort of feels like everybody's working onto centralized exchanges? Do you feel that somehow our wins going against the tide and the industry? And you know why do you think that is? And how do you kind of plan to navigate that? I think we definitely went against the tide, and we did it very it inadvertently because, you know, in twenty seventeen we started thinking about what kind of company we. Wanted to build. We were never of this opinion that decentralisation is the key value proposition of Blockchain's. We were of the opinion that trust. And trust listeners, and managing trust was the key value proposition of Blockchain's. So let me explain what that means one thing that has been sort of this constant current through my, my career as a as a security, researcher, an engineer is that everywhere in the internet. You have these things called trusted third parties, for instance, if you want to use HTTPS to securely access a website at the end of the day, the security of that entire ecosystem comes down to a few centralized parties, which are called certificate authorities. And these guys are, you know, they get hacked, and bad things happen. And there's all sorts of attacks that you can do because of this, like, you know, trusted central authority, and it's sort of like at the root of a lot of internet systems, like, you know, web Christian or DNS the domain name system, you find the stuff everywhere. And so for us like blockchain was this amazing thing. That is an entity that you can trust. But it's not a single entity. It's not a single trusted third party. The blockchain itself provides a route of trust that you can do cryptography with, but it's not a single party that can get hacked. So it's very hard to sort of roll back Blockchain's. That's the whole point. But there's not just like a single place and you can go and attack, and like, kinda skew, the whole book chain. And that's that's really fascinating. So when we that's my, that's always been my understanding of what Blockchain's are. And what they're four. And so, when we started this, we said, okay, look there's a whole bunch of things centralized exchanges. They're getting attacked. They're getting hacked. Money's getting stolen. How can we continue to treat on these things, but not have to trust them? And then we said, okay, let's continue trading on them. But just use the blockchain as a route of trust. And that's where our win came from the you wanna trade on centralized exchanges. Everybody wants to trade on centralized exchanges. Look at all this fall Eum. Right. Twenty seventeen. Look at all volume. How do we trade on them without having to trust them? And that's where the whole thing started. So when the when the when the whole decks. You know movement took off. We were just going to completely different direction saying, like everybody wants to centralized exchanges. Why don't we just figure out a way for them to use them without having to trust them and from the exchanges perspective. How does working with Arwen benefit them? And you know what? What do you have to do to convince them to work with you? Like, I don't know how much work it takes to integrate Arwen so working in exchange of like your general enterprise SAS, you know, fail cycle, so you have to convince the basically the executive exchange of this is a good idea. So that's you know that take some time in terms of why they would do it. I think that there are a couple of reasons there are a lot of actual leadership at exchanges that really believes in the promise of blockchain and the idea that blockchain provide sort of trust list, all this ability to do things trust Leslie, that things are decentralized, and we have found actually ship at a number of exchanges that, that this is like something that they truly believe. And so they're bothered by the fact that they're like, therefore acting as this. Custodian basically acting like a traditional Bank for everyone's crypto, like they just feel like that's against the use of the space. So that's like one thing that you sometimes find and that helps us get to a deal faster. The other thing is that, you know, providing these types of features put some basically leadership position in the market. So we launched on coup coin four months for weeks ago, and there was a bunch of press about, you know, these are, this is the leading this is like a bold, move that they're leading the, the space, and they're kind of doing things that, that other exchanges haven't haven't thought of doing so, at the moment, what are when is, is really a differentiator to draw traders to exchange that would allow them to transact on an exchange the way that they can't really do in many other exchanges. And so that's really the main value proposition that we're offering on these exchanges like being able to provide the service to their users an and and, and kind of lead the industry in that direction. The other piece that I think is really important. Is that if you look at what's been going on in the crypt of space in two thousand eighteen, you know, we can sit here and just start naming number of startups that are trying to solve the custody problem. So let's. You just start. You know, kinda ledger treasure big O Anchorage, like let's just keep going up. Oh, there's of that. Right. And they're all super interesting different coin. Kite, everyone's doing something different and they're all really interesting. But at the end of the day, like you have your coins in this custodian as soon as you go to trade, they're not in your custodial anymore. And so, you know what is driving me, personally to kind of push us into the market is that they're going to be users they're going to be using these custodians. They're going to be invested in their custodian. And they're gonna say this is my secure custodian. I don't wanna take my coins off my custodian, but I still want to do things with them and protocols, like are went allow them to do that. And so I think that as a custodian gained market, traction, there's going to be more market traction for protocols like ours and not having to like, really change what they already do because people are used to trading on centralized exchanges. But they just want to get to those exchanges in a way that keeps their coins protected by their custodians. And actually just that last piece about what it takes to integrate with our win. Is it just kind of writing some code to integrate or to, to interact with these contracts with, escrow smart contract? No. No. So we take care of all of that. So really the integration has to do with us coming into the exchange looking at their API end points for trading and terminating against those API endpoint. So we need certain end points. So, for instance, some exchanges have the ability to programmatic -ly withdraw coins from the exchange. Right. There's like a withdraw and point in the API. So if that's present. We can use that to do in our win integration. If that's not present than we may need that to be exposed. So that's sometimes where the latency comes in, like if you look at the big exchanges like binary, and I think Polonia ex but stamp, they all support this type of programmatic withdrawal from the, from the from accounts, we need that, but some of the smaller ones may not have that. So we, we have to wait for that to be added. And so that's kind of the, the integration, it's they don't have to do anything Irwin specific. It's just that we need certain basic functionality from the API, that some of them have, and some of them don't have. So we're going to talk more about the custody stuff that you mentioned and also more about smart contracts after the break, but I quit for fabulous. 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Would be the size of Canada's large volumes of tainted crypto assets move through financial networks, often below the radar of banks, cybercriminals, use unregulated crypto exchanges to avoid detection, no wonder governments around the world are rolling out tough new anti money, laundering laws for cryptocurrencies complying with those laws, isn't easy, banks and exchanges. Need the best? Cryptocurrency intelligence available to avoid penalties. Now, you can use the same powerful AM L and compliance monitoring tools, used by regulators cypher trace is securing the crypto economy. To learn more, visit cypher trace dot com slash unchained. Back to my conversation was Sharon Goldberg of Arwen. So when you were mentioning custody earlier, do you have to sign on specific St. solutions, or can people use any other custody solutions with our win? Yes. Oh. Currently you can use Arlen with any custody solution that you have. And again, this is a two part answer to your question. So right now, what we do with Arwen is that there's a piece of code called the Arwen, demon that speaks Arwen on the traders behalf. And what the demon really has incited is keys that are associated with the Arwen escrow. So when you take your coins and you put them in an escrow their keys associated with that, escrow that allow you to move coins around and do traits. So the ideal integration from a security perspective for us would be to have the keys associated with the escrow actually housed inside your custodian. Right. So, for instance, if you're trading with a ledger than those keys would be inside the ledger, and so that type of integration requires, you know, a bunch of work on our side and on the custodian side to actually execute upon and that, you know, we're interested in doing some of that, with, with, with, like a variety of custodians, but at the moment, we have sort of a different way of doing it, which is that the keys associated with a particular escrow would live on the user's local machine. And so those coins are actually never going into the custody of any third party there, being sorry, the coins in the s grows are actually being moved around by the demon which is an executed. But the user would locally would locally download so that means that you can basically use any custodian you want to transfer coins into the esque rose. The demon will move the coins around in the escrow. And then when you close your escrow, those will go back into your custodian directly. So at the moment, we can support any any custodian. But as we go into sort of, like higher levels of security, we'd have more deep integrations with specific Estonians, and that's kind of what we're working on right now. And when you say any kind of custodian do you also include things off, oh and clean base custody, stuff like that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because today what, what, what you need to do. And actually, to move a coin into an escrow, is that the Arlen demon will tell you an address. So for bitcoin, you'll be given. An address that is the hash of the Arwen, escrow smart contract. So you have the escrow smart contract and you shit that cause you not dress, and that's an address like any other address. And so what you do is you would fund that address, and that locked your coins enough, grow the. Is the hash of a smart contract, and that smart contract associated with escrow peas that allow you to adjust the balance in the escrow? And so then if our when were widely adopted as a general vision with sort of be like people could if they want to outsource their custody and also transact with a centralized exchange, which would any will them to number one, not to have to worry about their about managing their own private keys, -sarily, and then also to not worry about their funds on any exchange being hacked is that right? That's right. Yeah. That's right. And so how does our would make money. I'm so we work with a centralized exchanges and we share part of the revenue with them comes through the traits that come on late from each transaction. I bet depends on the particular exchange, but it could be done per transaction. It can be done sort of as a fee at the start of the year. There's different. There's different arrangements that we've considered different players, but it has to do basically with, you know, the traffic that comes in through through the Arlen through the platform to the exchange coins. Do you suppose? And how do you decide which wants to support? Yes. So currently we have three coins because we are. We're still in beta we're moving towards like the full set of features that we plan to support by the end of the year. But right now we have bitcoin, bitcoin cash and coins so we're probably the only protocol right now that can support swaps from bitcoin into bitcoin, cash, actually, and so those are the three that we have right now and the team is currently working on Syria. Many are twenty and so when we have that part, we're going to have the ability to basically swap from all the euro see twenty tokens plus the stable coins into bitcoin, bitcoin cash coin. So that's where we're starting from we started there, because we we're looking for the highest volume coins, at the moment, and that was always bitcoin. So we started their first the other reason to start with bitcoin is because bitcoin is actually harder to write protocols for. And so we started with basically the most difficult part of the problem. I and when we have solved that problem we can basically migrate that onto other coins that are easier to. Right. Smart contracts and protocols for. And that's, for example, theorem. And so that's why we did hear him second. I mean, if you if you can actually nail down all the protocol, and specificities in bitcoin. It's a lot easier to support that over to theory, which is completely different and a lot easier to program than bitcoin. And when you were talking, and then earlier, I asked you, so how do you decide which coins to support? Yeah. So we looked at the high volume coins, which were forward hell you. Oh, yeah. All right. Going forward. I think we're you know, I'm very interested in a lot of these different new coins that are coming out, like we have cosmos, and we have bindings chain, and we have Z cash. There's just a huge number of super interesting new Blockchain's that are out there. I think right now we have our hands full with the cerium and air sea twenty leg. And I think that, like at the end of two thousand nineteen we're going to have an interesting view on, like, what are the next set of really key Blockchain's? And I think at that point we're gonna look at, you know, one of those Blockchain's, what type of scripting functionality, do they have and pick on the basis of both, you know, like the popularity of the importance, and the success of the coin and also like, what, what we can actually do with it in terms of scripting, and protocol design. Okay. But generally, you sort of vision that eventually, are when will support as many coins as possible. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we just have to pick and choose in terms of the size of our team. And what we can execute on, but yeah, our goal is really to have coins that are not designed to interrupt rate with each other to allow. Those interoperable, so we're looking at the type of coins that aren't supposed to really be able to do cross blockchain protocols and focusing on actually executing the cross boxing protocols for coins that aren't supposed to be able to communicate so, like the classic right now, examine event is bitcoin, and bitcoin cash when they fork protocols that are designed for bitcoin. Typically cannot work with bitcoin cash, but we on purpose took the point of view that we need to be able to support something like the coin cash, you know, they're not really designed to support each other, because people are actually trading, you know, these pairs and practice, and that's you know, that that's where the, the difficult problem is. And that's the one we're solving. So just a minute ago, you said that theory is easier to program on. But I know from our pre interview that you personally, actually find it the other way around that bitcoins easier to program on soup. Can you talk a little bit about what it's like working with smart contracts and bitcoin versus a theory? And you know what the differences are in an, you know, why maybe your point of view is a little bit different from others. Yeah. So the. Finishes. The word easier easier is can be interpreted in so many different ways. So I have to be precise about the meaning of easier. So the way I was using easier, two minutes ago was this, you know, theorem smart contracts, can support a massive amount of functionality. They are too incomplete. It was just something that everyone says, but, you know, something that's more meaningful apart from the turing, completeness, theorem, smart contracts is like you can write all sorts of code any theory. You're not you're not super restricted into what actual you know, functions, you can execute any theory him with bitcoin. You can basically do three things you can sign transactions. Not messages. You can't find whatever message you want. You can only find transactions, and you can compute hashes and checks at the hash matches like the pre image of the hash matches the hash value. So those are the two things you can basically do in bitcoin, so given that you can only do two things in bitcoin. It's, it's not that easy to come up with protocols that, that are have, you know, rich functionality, given that you can really only do. Things in the in the scripting language. And so that's why I say it's harder to write protocols in, in bitcoin than it is to write protocols, and you theory because any theory you can put a lot of the complexity of the protocol into the actual smart contract, because the scripting language supports doing all sorts of things that are not possible to do unto coin. So that's one definition of easier. Okay. So now let's go to the next definition, which is when you're actually building a smart contract. Right. So now you figure it out your protocol. What is the protocol, protocol, is what you're smart contract is plus what messages you sent back and forth? That's the definition of a protocol. So in bitcoin, you're smart contract is really simple. Right. Because you can barely do anything with the scripting language. But the messages, you sent back and forth, maybe more complicated, right? Any cerium? You're smart contract is much more complicated. But the messages, you sent back and forth, maybe simpler. So what's easier is like when you're writing the bitcoin smart contract. It's. Really easy because it's just a little dumb thing that can do very few things and actually game that and making sure it doesn't have any bugs. It's not that hard, right? Because it just doesn't really do much. So there's very few places where you can go wrong. For instance, the Arwen, escrow smart contract has sixteen op codes in bitcoin. Script is like assembly language. We only have sixteen coats in our ExCo smart contract. If you try to take the exact same smart contract in from bitcoin, and try to put it into Syria. You end up with this complex, you know, much more complex contract that has many more lines of code many more function calls. Many more, you know, things that are, that are being done, just to execute the exact same functionality, and that comes because the theorem scripting languages, more rich than the bitcoin one. So when I say it's easier to write bitcoins, mar contracts it is because they're so simple. Once you figure out like this, Mark contract lets you actually do something then, writing it is easy. The hard part with bitcoin is figuring out like how you can actually do anything with this very crippled, scripting language. That's available to you and bitcoin. So that's a very long answer to my to the question. And the reason that. I find like you Syria, more difficult is because actually writing the smart contract itself. Once you've decided what it needs to do is trickier, because there's more instructions and there's all sorts of strange things that can happen, any theorem because of the way the here in virtual machine works, that is very different from, like, just writing regular like Java code or sharp code that per members are used to. And so I actually don't know what an op code is when you said there are only sixteen of those bitcoin is like lines of code. It's actually an instruction. So it might say it might be like, if some like an F could be an code or signed something could be an op code or check the hash could be an code checks time. Could be an avocado. Those are those are examples of code. So there's a very small number of, of instructions that you can do. It's not a function call, but it's like an instruction almost like a machine instruction. I don't know if that, if that clarifies, it's very engineer answer, but it's just that there's a few like commands you can use bitcoin, each op code is like one of those commands. And then in Syrian for the same functionality. How many lines is that you said it was a lot more? Yeah. It's a lot more. We're actually I want to tell you the number because we're still working on the exact details of the smart contract right now. But from the. The, the differences that you don't have specific instructions. But you have, you know, like function calls, you have a rich programming language. You're not writing code in like machine code like assembly language like you are in bitcoin. That's the real difference. It's like if you think about normal programming languages when you're programming your, your CPU on your computer. You're using a language called assembly language is very simple, like move something here. You know, multiply something hash something that's what you do when you're programming like a CPU, and then when you're like normal developer would be writing like JavaScript code. That's many, many layers above what you would be doing when you're programming CPU with semi language. So the differences when you're programming bitcoin, you're really doing like assembly language programming like one layer above the CPU, essentially. And when you're doing, I'm hearing programming you, you're using a much richer, programming language that has a lot more functionality. But also a lot more complexity. All right, super interesting. So let's move onto some thought experiments. You did mentioned before Alcock and by Nance. And just in general, you know, obviously, there's this whole history of exchanges ING hacked in crypto. And here it is that you are working on a project that, you know, could potentially I think prevent situations like that. So what do you think would have happened if users had been using our win in the mount gawk situation? So if an exchange impact, basically, what happens is the exchange would be disabling the ability to deposit and withdraw coins from that exchange. And so, in our win the, what that looks like is that the exchange would refuse to cooperate in closing any escrow that you have with that exchange, so remember in our what you, do you take your coins deposit them in the escrow. Do you a bunch of trades? And when you're finished you close the escrow in the coins, return dock to your wallet and can be used for other purposes. So if something bad happens to the exchange when you go to close your escrow, the exchange will, basically, not respond in the way that you expect or just refuse to respond at all. So you'd see. Something's wrong. But that this ask rose, not closing because the exchange is not cooperating with you to close the escrow at this point, what Arlen would do is go into a coin recovery procedure. And what that is that the Arwen demand, the, the, the piece of software that speaks arwood on your behalf. We'll detect that the exchange is not properly responding to your request to close escrow. And so what it'll do it as say to you. You know this escrow was frozen. The exchange is not responding, you'll be able to recover your coins and get the coins out of this escrow on your own without the assistance of the exchange after a particular time. And so, aren't ask her are associated with an expiry time. So when you set up an Oscar, you might say, you know, this escrow for three days, what that expiry time does is that when it's over it allows you to unilaterally, close the escrow without the exchanges participation. So even if they're hacked, or they're behaving badly, or something else has gone wrong on the exchange you can still on your own basically withdraw the coins from the escrow and use them from something else, even if the exchange is not there. So the bottom line is if the exchange has hacked, you just be. Having your coins frozen and Oscar for some period of time at which point, you'll be able to recover them, according to the balance of the trades that you've done up to that point. Sue. That sounds like it would apply really to any of kind of these high profile situations on exchanges like Mt. Cox Quadra by Nance. Is that true that it would apply to all those? That's right. Yeah. So sensually what happens is, if something goes wrong on the exchange, and they stopped processing withdrawals, which is essentially what you see all these cases, like, for instance, Quiroga, you know, the founder disappeared if you know they lost access to their while. It's so they don't have access to their well. It's can't process withdrawals, right? Another example would be like, if it exchanges hacked. They can't process withdrawal because there's no coins in their wallet to support the withdrawals. So it all comes down to just basically withdrawal, not happening. So so what are looks like all those cases, you know, the exchange is not participating closing the escrow, so we're going to close it on our own. Yeah. And just to clarify, the Quadra owner died. Apparently. But. There there some suspicion about whether or not that was true. But then I actually also wanted to ask, so I know we don't have all the details about binary. It's just yet and for listeners, we're actually recording very shortly after the Binat s- hack was announced so potentially between the time. We've courted this time we're releasing it. There could be more details that are revealed, but Sharon for you knowing what we know so far. Is there any because like, as far as I understand, from finances, announcement it looks like individual user accounts were compromised. So I don't know if you if, if in exchange were using our win in like, you know, I don't know how that would affect the ability to do something like that. Right. So with the finance hack, right? What we know we're only like a couple of days from the hawks. I'm sure more details will emerge in the coming days, what we know about this was that according to the information that's out there if that several user accounts were compromised, and it sounds like those accounts for sort of compromise it whatever they were compromised. So slowly accumulating compromise towns, and then at one point, the attacker sort of took all those accounts, and it sounds like told them all to withdraw at the same time and to withdraw coins to a particular place, which is controlled by the attacker, and or places that are controlled by the attacker. And so all those accounts kind of just in one transaction withdrawal. All the counts requested withdrawal kind of the same time and that withdrawal process at the same transaction all in one shot, and then we had seven thousand bitcoins, from the finance wallet, just be moved into the attackers control. So that's what it, it sounds like. So individual accounts, probably were compromise at some very slow rate, and then the attacker, like waited until the moment where he actually did the with your she did the withdrawal and, and prostate at the same time. So that's you know, that's a pretty aggressive and precise attack. And that's what we know right now, but, you know, I'm sure more details will emerge in the future. So the effectiveness was at essentially the hot wallet was emptied and there were no more coin in the hot wallet. So consider another user that wasn't compromised that just coming in and wants to withdraw their bitcoin from finance. Well, there's no more bitcoin in hot wallet anymore, so you can't really do withdrawals unless they take them out of the cold wallet. Which of course they weren't gonna do at the moment that they discover that something. Wrong. Right. So the exchange all kind of, like, you know, be like, okay, now let's pull out our cold, wallet and expose that and risk being hacked. So at that point, you know, with all of their frozen because that's the only like natural thing to do at that point. So there's nothing you know strange about that. And at the end of the day, you know, you know, Alice who have nothing to do with any of this can't withdraw her point, even though they're bitcoin. Right. So the difference with Arlen would be we'd be back into the case where like the user wants to, to close escrow. She never actually gave her bitcoin to the custody of finance, so even finance is hot wallet was emptied. She still has whatever harass girls are. Those are still locked on the blockchain, even if I was like I'm going off line. I'm not gonna talk to anyone for a week while I figure out what happened here. She could unilaterally close with the participation of the exchange, so really the whole technical contribution, and all the all the innovation in our Wayne is really just dealing with the case, where the other side of the escrow, you know, I'm, I'm escrowing with finance, just disappears doesn't wanna participate anymore. And so I have to be able to recover on my own without the. Exchanges participation. Right. But actually, my question was ever so slightly different, which is that it's ounce to me, like an attacker, wouldn't be able to perpetrate this type of hack because sorry if you know, all let's say, all these were were using Arwen because essentially, what would just happen is than individual users might lose their coins, but the exchange, I mean, granted, then it gets a little weird because then we're sort of presuming anyway, I think you see where I'm going because then it's sort of like the exchanges to have any coins, but essentially, it would so if an individual user gets compromised, it kind of localize is the damage to that individual user, rather than the exchange suffering is sort of. Okay. So I mean, there's two there's two answers one is that the user really doesn't care what happens at the exchange. So even if the exchanges like out to get her the entire time, she's trading on that exchange. She doesn't care because the exchanges job is to. Put up ask rose properly, you know, and, and when you're setting up the esque rose, like if the exchange is not doing that properly won't set up escrow, so those coins, never go anywhere, and you're never interacting with this exchange. Once you've set up the pros, even if the talking you it doesn't matter because you always know you're gonna get the coins you expect. So that's really the first piece. Right. The second piece is that when you have self custody, you kind of make it harder to, to attack because the coins are, you know, in distributed, way, and so that's really like the value proposition of a lot of these self custody solutions that you have to really go after the custodian in order to attack us, or, and that's harder to do, because it's like more places that you have to attack. All right. So let's talk about kind of where you're going. So you guys only recently launched in beta, and as far as seeing, there's, like pretty restrictive limits on the trading. So, you know, I probably because you are in beta I what can you actually state what those limits right now? Yeah. It's about one hundred dollars right now for the next little while, but we're gonna be raising it. And so then going on to the future. It sounds like right now, you're working on adding cerium and air sea twenty tokens. But what are some other futures? Futures features you'd like to add on our win in the future. I kind of wondered if something like margin trading would work on our win. Yeah. You know, I can say this right now but I don't wanna like commit to anything. I'm saying because we're still evaluating specifically, what's next, there's a lot of different things that we know how to do and, and are interested in doing so one of them is a high frequency trading support that you mentioned which we think is really exciting. But you know, we're looking at what exactly the demands for that particular feature right now? There's also, you know, the notion of options. So, you know, talking to traders there's a lot of interest in having options that are not fully collateralized. So finding a way to do that could be really interesting. It's not something that we started, but started building, but something that we've talked about bought about other pieces are, you know, providing, you know, fast movement of coins between exchanges. So, you know, you're on one exchange and now you can really quickly move your coins to different exchanges in order to explain whatever price, particularly you have different exchanges. So you know all of a sudden just kinda throwing out in the air because we haven't commit. To exactly which one of these steps is next potentially integrating with, with, like banks and providing that support as well from through atomic slops is another thing we're interested. So there's a lot of different opportunities that we're looking at right now and we'll have more details on exactly what that is in the coming months. But right now, our real focus is just like providing this support free theory. I'm and reducing some of the friction in using Arlen. And so I just wonder seeing what you meant when you said that you would be interested in integrating with banks of for doing atomic lots of Fiat. Do you mean with, like stable coins that are peg defeat or something like that? No stable coins are gonna come through theorem. So that that's not. That's already on the road map. Right. So when we have the twenty we will have stable coins, and then that's, that's done, basically, no, there's also question of like real yet through real banks. And how can you work with the banks actually have them support? You know if there's moving yet in the Bank. How can you actually reflect that movement of on the blockchain? You know. So if you move, let's say a hundred dollars in the in the banks and maybe you move like part of a bitcoin on the blockchain at the same time. So some of those ideas are things that we're thinking about you. Okay. Okay. I feel like I'm a little bit confused. So it's, it's like for a Bank to use our win for their internal Edger. No. So, so let me back up. So people are very interested in crypto two yet trading. Right. So they wanna trade dollars for bitcoins. That's perhaps, the most popular marketing having career you have dollars bitcoin for for one and things like that. So these, these are very popular markets. And this concept of comic slop, which is something that's very particular to cryptocurrency can can be extended. So when you an atomic slop, you typically have to crypto currencies on your swapping from one to the other. So, again, in the slop means Alice have item a Bob has item be so either Alice gets be Bob gets a or Alice keeps a and Bob keeps be so it can't be the case that Bob gets both. A and b or Alex gets both and be that cannot happen. That's what an atomic is. And you can do that on the blockchain without trusting anyone because that's the whole point of having a blockchain, it's a way of, you know, having mutually untrusted parties agree on some form of truth. And so you can use that to these protocols. So that's like an atomic slop when people in the blushing space say that, that's what they mean. But you can also extend that concept. Right. So if you're actually moving Fiat, like real money, you know, paper money or money inside a Bank. You know, there's no blockchain there. So it's, it's hard to kind of use the blockchain trust. But when people move around, they use banks right when you're moving back and forth, you might be using a Bank to Philip this transfer. So if you're transferring, you know, Fiat in the Bank world, maybe you can reflect the movement of FIU in the Bank world, actually, for the movement of point on the blockchain. Right. So you don't really have to trust anyone to move the coin. Although you may have to trust the Bank to move with yet. And so it's tying those two pieces together or something that we think is pretty interesting thing about this. It's sort of reminds me of like colored coins or something. But anyway, okay. Well, it sounds very interesting. And I guess we'll sort of see if that's direction you go in. All right. Well, it's been so great having you unchained where can people learn more about you and Arwen? So we have our website, our win dot IO, if you want to try Arlyn right now. You can go to a coup coin dot com, which is the first exchange that we've launched with which is one of the topics. Asia and just click on trade from your wallet and you'll be able to use arbitrate directly on coupon. Okay. Actually, there was one piece though, that I think I saw it which is, this is restricted to non US residents. That's true. Okay. That's. So if you wanna talk a little bit about the whole ready actually phase. Can you? Let's, let's do that yet. Okay. So you know we've been in business for a year and a half, and we've been talking to whole bunch of exchanges and we discovered a bunch of things. So the first thing we discovered is that in Asia crypto to crypto trading is a really big thing so much bigger thing than it is here in the US. So that's really interesting. Second is that in Asia, the regulatory situation looks very different than it does here. So let's take the example of Japan, for instance, in Japan, you have the financial service agency of Japan, the FFA that regulates all crypto trading and transactions and payments, and so on. So there's this one body called the F say they regulate everything they're very strong regulator, and they're very tough. And they're very involved, but there's just one of them and you know who they are. And so if the FFA license you're done, and so, you know, that's part of the picture in Asia, either the regulators are very friendly and they're just like, you know try what you're doing. And we'll regulate you later after we figure out what it is that you're doing here, or it'll be, you know, where the episode. We're very tough. But you know, you just know that it's us and you can work with us. And that's the end of it. So that's kind of the picture in Asia. And so what happened for us is. Because what we're doing is so new. It's hard for the regulators to really know what we're doing because it's new. And so that makes it a little bit harder to kind of like watch with a US exchange or with US users, because we have to kind of make an argument based on laws that are very old that involve multiple regulators. Like you have the SEC CFCC, you have the states, you have Fintan you have just a large number of different regulations that apply to cryptocurrency. You have to figure out how your new protocol fits into all of these different rules. And what that means for taking your Caesar's. So it's really tricky on your startup. And so what we've done is essentially like just worked outside of the US, because the regulatory landscape hear people say that it's unclear I think I'm more. Correct term is at it's complex. And that there's a lot of regulations that you have to comply with and not complying with them results in very bad things. So you kind of sidestepping all of that is what we've chosen to do at this point, because we're really, you know, kind of breaking new ground from a technology, perspective and understanding, how that fits in with the regulations. You know, it's something that we're working on. But it takes time. So at that at this point. Right. We've launched with an exchange that is abroad, and doesn't really take users that are KYC from the US. And so as a result Arwen is, is not available to us right now. I think broadly speaking, I personally would like to see less of this happening because I'm sure that you've encountered a lot of new projects that coming from teams here that are actually launching outside of the US, and it really comes from this. When you're doing some of the really innovative things that are coming out of this country understanding how the regulations apply to those things is really hard and expensive and involves lots of lawyers, and it's not just one set of rules. But it's like an of them, and that's what you see, you see, you know, you see launches outside of the. That said, you know, we, we are working towards getting watches in the US, but it's like a longer in floor process involves, you know, figuring out exactly how we fit into many more regulatory frameworks that are old and not really designed for the space. Yeah. I'm so Clinton, this came up at the end of very roundabout way because I did ask SEC Commissioner has her purse about this. When I interviewed her in, I think she seemed to say that she was kind of sympathetic or, or did understand that this was something or the actually that she was concerned about what you said that kind of innovation was happening here. But people were bringing their innovation elsewhere for that. Very reason, and she did say she listens to the show. So perhaps, you'll hear this or I think other people at that's easy listened to the show as well. So maybe they'll here, but yeah, I do find it is not it's a pretty widespread sentiment actually, amongst a lot of thought. Sure is in the space at least. The US. So you're definitely not the only one. And I just want to say that, like if I can move conversation, just a little bit through this podcast is that, like you always hear like, there's no regulatory clarity. There's no regulatory clarity. Like that's not the point right? Like so we don't know if he is a security or not a security like that's an important question. A huge question, right? But there's so much more going on, and there's so much more innovation happening. So, for instance, what's a what's the two of two multi Sieg? And what does that imply when you have to, to multi six who's controlling the acid transmitted the asset? How does that fit into, you know, money, transmitter laws, and how does that transmit it into the state money, transmitter laws? And how does that affect the CFC's view of the object? Right. Like you've just gotta think about so many different regimes and so many different rules. And, you know, this country has very well, developed regulation for financial services, which makes sense. Right. Given the history of all sorts of things happening when there aren't regulation. But you know what? This is like a new way to transact and what we're doing is we're having to fit this into these old rules. And, you know, that would even be fine if it was just one set of old rules like you haven't in the Japan, the Japan FFA approach, but here you just have lots of them. So, like you really don't know you really don't know how many of these rules can affect you, right? You have money services, businesses in each state, you have money transmission like the FinCEN regulations. You have you have to see you have, so it's not just the sort of, like lack of clarity. But it's the fact that there are a lot of rules. You have to do some really creative lawyering, which I personally, actually really like enjoy thinking about like all these old laws and how, how exactly like our escrow affects these specific laws and how they fit. I find that like intellectually fascinating like I am a professor at the end of the day, like love this stuff, but it public and if you make a mistake like the penalties are high. Right. And, and, and so it really sort of prevents you from even taking the risk, right? Because, you know, like I think this interpretation, but like, who knows what the regulators gonna think because, you know, no one's really done this before. And so. How much risking my willing to take to actually deploy this technology in the US when I don't know exactly how the regulator might apply this, or maybe there's like an attorney general and some state that doesn't like the way I did this comes after me. So like it's, it's just so complicated. And the penalties are so high that it really is. Ii fling, our ability to launch products in the country. Okay. Well, that's a grim place to end this by hopefully. That's in a statement that some regulators will hear well it has been so great having on the show. This was just. Yeah. This was an amazing episode. So thanks again for coming on on change. Thank you. I'm sorry to end it on the the side note, but. Note, which is that I think that there's just like a massive number of technological innovations happening right now in this space, you know, people kind of trying to do things that, that don't really make sense in the physical world or in the traditional world. But do you make sense are possible when we use Blockchain's? And so, like, I'm really excited about, you know pushing this type of field forward. And, like I just am looking for kind of places where we can we can get this out there and get people use it. And I do think that things will kind of fall in line. And this innovation will be accepted. But we're really we're really like a place where we're experimenting and I'm sort of looking forward to see all of the new all the new things at different people in the space are working on. Yes. Me too. All right. Great. Well, thanks for coming on the show. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much for joining us today. To learn more about Sharon in our wind. Check out the show notes inside your podcast player. If you are not yet sign up for my Email newsletter. Go to chain podcast dot com right now to get my thoughts on the top Kripa stories of the week, and we sure to check out our new channel on YouTube unchanged produced by me, warship, with from factual, recording Anthony Yoon, Daniel, nece, and rich strongly. Thanks for listening.

bitcoin Blockchain Arwen Oslo Syria engineer Blockchain Boston University Sharon Goldberg front running Allison Bob Norway YouTube Facebook Arlen professor
Full Show (Morris + Doni, Paul George, Clippers/Mavs, Lakers/Blazers, Julian Edelman)

Skip and Shannon: Undisputed

1:44:11 hr | 5 months ago

Full Show (Morris + Doni, Paul George, Clippers/Mavs, Lakers/Blazers, Julian Edelman)

"Welcome to the undisputed podcast hosts, Jerry Taft. This podcast is the full show from today's episode of undisputed from start to finish. They've got a busy slate. So Skip Shannon let's get to it. Morning. welcomed. undisputed. And Shannon Sharpe. Aware. Go now I don't wear growth man. I just say what I see you last night I've saw the soon to be NBA champions on just play and they're the other losses team that team in the basement dug ligthart. Has Now I'll just see it. You've got a lot of tear cuvee because you guest why not you waited like really will the gift I have no idea who's Ted. Cruz play for. Rangers. Yeah. I think he plays for the ranger. Built in crew. DOC wanted energy from his team and he got it last night. The clippers bounce back in a huge way routing the mavericks won fifty four to one eleven they held dodge to twenty two points six seventeen shooting and suffocated him the whole game. There was some controversy in the third quarter though Marcus Morris stepped on Lucas Ankle after the game, the map star questioned whether it was intentional but said, only Morris would know for sure what is intentions were Moore's denied it and said quote I'm not politics. For bleep Shannon, do you believe this was intentional? All that court. And Somehow, you managed to step on the guys ain't you happen to step on a guy's ankle injury. With all of that court available. Everybody knows everybody knows because this guy has a history? In everybody knows this give everybody knows he has a history it started early in the game guilt they were at the line. This is what I don't get. I didn't see any of this in game one. I didn't see it in game two at the game Sunday I mean in the game Sunday now last night. Skip mosquito, he hates brought runners. And I think everybody from Roy Moore to McClure's. Beverly all the centipede. He do battlefield. He got so much. Five to kick it up they caught road to kicking and. We go. But he just love night. Adl. That'd be people just blow it up my time that you. Know he hates. Old Front Running Lebron J. I can't wait to tell you just a few minutes here on this show, but it was it was a dirty play it with an unnecessary play and and as I said before Marcus Morris has a history of this type of behavior he can miss me with their I planned game. With integrity I, play the game the right way everybody know your history, your bad behavior which you exhibited in your tenure. NBA Career. That's factual is okay. You did you try to be sneaky about it but that's the thing about. Those. Now with the way television meals, they have cameras on everything you get away with that you. Point. Back in the day scale guy who do. Agree. Well, he did well, I don't see it on tape now there are so many cameras even in the bubble they have these the camera that run along the sideline give up close view just like you were sitting in the stands. So for me skip this was. An Intentional Act and So. It marked what was a great game by the clippers? They played unbelievable and scalp imitate what what happens if you shoot twenty to thirty? Five three point line yeah shoot. Fifty three eighty, four field. Yeah. Do you probably go to blow team out alleged issue thirty for forty from Three Point Land Clippers playoff records. To have. A Free Park best people go presented when you have those type of numbers in a playoff games, you're gonNA blow the team this was unnecessary. I believe it was an intentional act. He can say, okay how about this deal? It was an unintentional intentional. Leave it at that. And I will buy that. Even though on twitter after the Game Marcus Morris posted to think I would try to injure somebody is crazy to me. That's what he posts. When, on all the things you just said I play the right way ten years going up against the best. I. Stand on morals and I stand on hard work I compete and I leave it out there every game he does this. He goes on to say basketball has never been that serious to try to hurt somebody I'm not apologizing for bleep because I know what I put into the Game Day in and day out it was a mistake deal with it. So he's saying he accidentally stepped on the foot. But I'M GONNA go. With you. Because Marcus Morris is obviously a an emerging team leader. He just joined the team few months back in the trade deadline for and yet he's always been tough guy. He has some enforcer in him and I believe he was enforcing against Luca Danni. And I'm GonNa tell you why he was enforcing because Luca more than ever at the start of this game is whining over every call. I mean every single call he's whining to the ribs. He's walking up the quarter running up to court with the referee trying to talk him out over into a call that he's going to give. Okay. Superstar. Even, the half ended with him walking off the floor talking to another one of the referees to after a while I just said I tweeted just play Ju just play. It's okay. You can. You can argue one caller two calls, but don't wine every time every single call in that game was a wine after the call. So this is again they got physical with him and by the way after I campaign on Monday that you have to occasionally just throw him occur ball and trap and. Do they did half court with some of the big. At him and just say know. You got to give it up and he gives it up because he's a passer by nature is. Lebron born to pass the basketball he only up with four SIS- last night and by the way he had one of those shooting nights. That is regrettable because what did he wind up over six hundred, seventeen, one of six from three and did you notice his first three-pointer Tim to the night? It hit nothing but air another air boss we shot three or balls on Sunday and another air ball last night one for six and I don't want to bring this up because. Regular season but not just. In the bubbles just in the playoffs so far he's making a grand total of thirty, four percent which for him is actually a half. That ranked sixty ninth of eighty, four, three point shooters in the playoffs, which is pretty tied for seventh most MRS free throws he's down to sixty eight percent. He missed five more last night he has missed the most free throws of anybody in the bubble. But now let's get to the flash point that was under reported last night. In this game speaking of camera angles, they're everywhere it. Knows all the cameras could we please see what happened in a play late in? Late in the first quarter to Reggie. Jackson underneath the basket. Thanks to Luca. Danni. Can we see this play? Here's the first part of it you can just see it in fast motion. Three point shot Luca goes in and you don't really see. But Reggie Jackson gets cold cocked in the back of the head by Luca. Here it is that he just takes a swing at him and he did seem in the back of the, I wonder if. If, there's somebody that crash into it. nope. Luca. Took a swing and it was very calculated and camouflage, but he basically just POPs him in the back of the head. If you the overhead view really shows it much better. Here he goes Luca who can't really see it that way. Here's one. They just took a swing and hitting the back of the head. She just crashes out of bounds on his back and I thought he hit his. Of his on the Hollywood put but no, he just took a little rabbit punch a little shot in the back of the head. On the floor for when that happened. Marcus Morris, who had a great angle to see what happened he because more. Okay. What you say is true the important. Okay. What's he do? He's going to retaliate soon as he gets clear open shot a little subtle from behind I'm going to step on your injured grow, which is also leading to some Achilles issues and I'm going to step on you and again do I have a huge problem I do not that's the way this game is played and when he says he plays the right way. That's that's actually how this game has always been play. Hockey they'll oh, you got your fourth. You got your goons that you miss widow the. Grass gets you have to the Sidney crosby you're GONNA have to deal with teams enforcement. NASCAR. This goes back you remember what had into Banco Name. The Guy Lodge output cheap shot and he did he did Allen. Tate. Olympic size. What was it seventeen? Size seventeenth slit right underneath is he came down jump shot and actually landed on. An injured ankle do when I was just going to contest. No, you didn't remember that was the third quarter of game one which they were head by twenty three something like that, and they lost the and lost the game lost the series I. Don't know if you remember this but in the preseason game, just Anderson was playing with the wizards. Yeah and Marcus Morris he elbowed. elbowed him again in the face and then he took the ball and bounce it off the top of his head now that playing the game the right way do you remember when he need been some within the hey idea that playing the game the right way because if we're in a court of law and you and I would eat him up on cross got on the stand and said, he plays the game the right way I got this radio. Show the jurors guilt and I'm going to ask him again tomorrow. Player in the game, the right way what do you think he's GonNa say this Tamar unique in the head is playing the game the right way. Okay. Because you said, you play the game the right way. So pattern of behavior you brought up Patrick, Beverley. Yes. Right now he is the number one cheerleader and trash talker from the bench because he has not been. able to play yet, they're saying he might be able to be available for the next game, but the point is Patrick Beverley does not play what Luca is playing he. He's not going to accept all the whining all of this and all the cheap subtle cheap shots from a guy who to me Luca is a wolf in sheep's clothing because the sheep's clothing is always. Know what's happening and he said after the game, he's saying all this bad stuff to me man marcus saying bad stuff. Is that okay with you guys he's asking reporters is this okay does this look like an intentional shot? If if this was intentional, that's really bad will was the swing on Reggie Jackson the back of his head was that intentional if so that looks really bad to me, but Lucas like A. It's all okay I'm. Happy I'm happy. But Patrick Beverley was all over him and finally Luca made a free throw and he was backpedaling up to court. You know what he did to Patrick we have we might have this I. Don't know where he did this. Here he is. He's given this. Patrick's all over him. And he can hear it because they're no fans here. All over him all over him. And here we go. See. If you can make one free throw Lewke lead the whole playoffs and miss free throws and he's doing. Yeah. So they are going back and forth and yet last night on Luca they obviously came out and said, we are going to get even more physical with him. They roughed him up they pushed him morale they beat on him and to me he under the onslaught last night he had a long hard night. Obviously, he did not have his co star. He did not have porzingas I'm hoping for their sake porzingas comes back. I'm hoping for the sake of the series because I'm not writing these guys. Because of Luca. Obviously an extremely talented players give came they played they played obviously the clippers that I. Look we're going to try we get an opportunity. We're GONNA get the ball out of his hands. We're GONNA, make other People Beatles. Yeah and early on I mean the game free good I mean. I went to I went to shave. Would Shane with the shades at night? Shave in the morning. Shave it it. Grows overnight. Stubble. So. Very small it grows very fast but I think about a time if I shave it, you know six, thirty, seven o'clock your by the time we rolled around here. Okay. Twelve hours I'll be back scared. So I go to there are like I think fifteen, thirteen, fifteen, twelve, sixteen like that skip I come back and they're down by Birdie horror wait a minute why. Did I did I actually Paul sleepers. Skip come to find out the clippers going to nineteen th. Nineteen to nothing and I think it got worse after that it got up to like I. Don't know thirty, two five. Let's get what happens is okay. You come down to you jack up a jump shot they come down make a three you come down Jack up another they come down to make three. Well, it doesn't take long for the game to get out of hand because the theme by early on, they really couldn't miss no they. Took of sixteen from the three. Ten to fifteen to eight A. Something dramatically. Happen you hit a cold. Streak like the Rock is D. Yeah is going to be hard for you to get back into the ballgame. So I. Don't know if you notice guide the quiet man, the quiet assassin. For the Los Angeles Clippers yet. He's got a commercial that says he's got now because this is now collide town that guy. Did. You notice what he did less not mid five zero. I did. Notice. He only missed seven shots because he at twelve of nineteen shots and he has got lethal from mid range turnaround. The lease, all his name is twelve nineteen. Two shots really. With a twenty, nine, foot three boredom. Your guy is playing the worst defense in the bubble and in basketball. So how good the defense team? A little better than the trail. Better they're better deficient. Leonard just does work on anybody who tries to guard him. Hardaway tries all GOTTLIEB try which guys. Wanted, you know who he is what about his name? May WE'RE GONNA. Say like eight thousand times the rest of the day. Do you remember what my guy did did yoga. In the first in the first game back. To feeding as do you remember the first game of the year? No, no, no. No he scored two in the fourth quarter and got blown as the record we do, right? Yeah. Yeah Okay just checking because I don't want you to get. Away Patrick Beverley is I point out is about to come back and did you see that in the voting for defensive player of the year Patrick Beverley actually got one first place vote from a guy and he he actually got to third place votes, which is pretty great for a little six guy who blocked Lebron shot on Christmas Day. So skillfully that he knotted up out of his hands through his hands back over his head out of bounds game overall I remember the last time they played before the break. Patrick Beverley became unplayable in the fourth quarter they try to play on the Brawn James but he became unplayable. For Defense player to your in to third place votes became unplayable in a game of that magnitude. He sets the defensive tone for this team. You congre lines, soul train Dr, Bob Blah watch what happens when he comes back, watch the new urgency and edge with which they will play defense spark spy the Electricity of Patrick do realize all the Luca shot sixteen or seventeen. He went to the free throw line shop team free throw attempts. They're nice probably guys on jump shots. What was he getting there the pain so again, Papa Karachi learn to the basket you know what I've forgotten until they brought it up last non telecast the Mavericks obviously had the number one offensive rating in the history of basketball guests who was the second rated offense in all of basketball this regular season it was the clip. I forgot about that world's best defensive team second best offense that means. That equals NBA champions question. So how did so why? Not, the well because our guys were gone most of the year let's Stop this. Yeah I need you. We're GONNA talk about Dukla later I love. Can't you can't say skip when you lose we have a play together. But when you win, we had great ball movement. They're just figuring themselves stop skill in by the way. A under reported last night did you see that guy who played the whole second half? Do you remember that guy who hasn't been in the bubble until about ten days ago retrieve got trez beast of the West. That guy did you see what he did look at those numbers he put up how about that? How About Nineteen and eleven in twenty two minutes you like that? Did you see my guy the? Guy. Question. Who you you won't trade. So you got you got you got a I got trez coming off the bench because I got big zoo. Who's GonNa Bother your? Guy. Bothers what was he gonNA do THUMP EASIER ALL WAY YOU'RE GONNA. Bother he mama that shot WIFI Bob and his shot his nurkic. This was a tour De Force skip. You saw we. First of all ad play eighteen minutes Lebron play twenty, eight in. Down and we get a one, thirty, five, Spot Kawai scored thirty, two and twenty, nine minutes. You like that we've go thirty. Twenty eight minutes. Okay. We took. Better know as that talk nineteen shots we took twelve we're playing a team you're playing the. G. League. If I'm not mistaken is not like the math was the number two seed they're the seven seed. So that means they're one better than a trailblazer. So let's not pretend skip. They just couldn't close but boy, they can play three and a half quarters solve. Anything. Declared I. Mean the Clippers saw the blazers. Guys all they can. They have Nurkic Zach College has been in and out they signed mellow late they don't make any excuses. Needed do the clippers. Time to. Watch tip. You just say it because they haven't played together. They don't really know each other. Off Making excuses doctors. As States facts but Dane Dave not talking about hadn't been a whole year. He hadn't been talking about that call in and out loud up. He's again. Millo late that's not what he does. But every time the every time the clippers lose they haven't played together when they we may look at ball movement. The ball. Movement. I think they got to know each other last night. Last night, they took their name tags off because they say, Oh yeah, you are. So, nobody know anybody. Hit that thirty nine football now and nobody know what the more I think about that. That's like a billion to one. Yeah it'll be. Seen Him. Do it too many times due to Eugenie the. Prince. Hollow I mean I'm here I'm here he's a cross between Larry Bird Magic Johnson go. James. How? How could anybody have the audacity to put him in the same sentence with one of the deadliest shooters in the history of this game Larry Murray he going through this guy is one of the deadliest improve. Okay. By the time by the time Luebbe twenty, five, you have an MVP time he twenty four, having MVP, okay twenty four by the time He. would. Have how he needs to get an enforcer because if he's GonNa Start at somebody's GonNa Finish it as. Getting going here. Be Luca or do we have to label him? No mercy. Already up by thirty five points in game four Lebron decided to drain his own logo three pointer right after crossing half court put L. A. UP Thirty Eight, the shot was from almost the same exact spot as Damian Lillard slow shot came one the big lead suggest Lebron was his wasn't answer saying quote the only reason James fired that shot from that spot at that moment was to mark his territory skip to the blazers have taken that personally. What? If I were a Portland Trail Blazer I would have taken that very personally. I would have been an I would be going into the night's game. Offended and outraged by that act by the king what are you? The game was clearly decided as ginny just pointed out the Lakers were up by thirty five points. And he had the audacity to come down. In. An take and make a thirty six foot shot up thirty five points. To put them up thirty eight. And to put them up thirty eight then to run to the other end of the court giving it a yes. Yeah. Yeah. There well. As if he just hit a walk off game winner in game seven to put the Portland Trailblazers, the rising eight seed back in their place if he had done that I give him a yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That put the you should be ashamed of this seriously that up thirty eight points as they were clearly going up three to one in the series, it should have been a sweet from the star. And, all I gotta say is you WanNa talk about rubbing somebody's nose. You WanNa talk about front running and showboating and hot dogging at the. Level put the mustard rela tone that Dr? Brian all at Portland's expense. Yes. In all I gotta say is. Lebron James's so lucky. He wasn't playing major league. Baseball at that point is, did you see what happened about a week ago San Diego versus Texas Rondo Totti's what happened grab one out in the eighth inning this is tend to three San Diego. He, said, he missed the take sign I have no idea if that's true or not but on a three. He's swung away and he connected and hit a bases loaded grand. Slam. And all of a sudden, they're fourteen to three. Okay. So the point is that. The rangers were clearly so outraged that the next hitter up is Manny Machado and where did the next pitch go? Went behind him. It's called a purpose pitch. It's sending a message that will not be tolerated and the Rangers manager Chris got suspended for overseeing that from signing off on that. But he said after the game, we did not like that as a group he wasn't saying just for him. But as their whole team, they did not like that and they found it unacceptable forgetful just an unwritten. Rule just as it should have been an unwritten playoff basketball rule, you don't try to rub somebody's poor knows in it. When you're up thirty five, you don't me asking you said goal with ten to three and a half. So another word they had thrown eighty five ninety purpose. So how'd you get to be ten three? You worried about one pitch what about those other eighty that led to the ten rowlands? What about whether the bottom of the night? No. Quarter. Tab on the clock. All I know is if I were trailblazer tonight and obviously I no longer have Damian Lillard and I don't have Zach Collins and I don't have trouble reason who didn't even come. So I am undermanned tonight I am thirteen and a half point underdog I gotTA. Tell you what I would be thinking it would be I would come out and play with rage I would go down swinging and I'm not advocating I'm not sending a message that they should throw punches I'm just talking about effectively psychologically go down swinging as in play physically play within just barely the letter of the law but take your pound of flesh underneath the basket hard fouls. Some rate. Carmelo you still have cj you still have Merkich you still have whiteside and you got those kids. Anthony Simon's comes in you got Gary Trent junior no I didn't mention him. He plays fearless. He plays tough strong. He's not big enough to guard Lebron, but he gets after him and they should get after your guys and this should be much closer than thirteen and a half. They should make you sweat and make you work because clearly you'll fraught run out in the first quarter and thinks this is over and you're not gonNA take this seriously. They now have a reason to take you very seriously tonight and play it like you mean it I don't WanNa. Hear one-two-three Cancun before this game starts I want to see the Portland Trailblazers, show what's left of their pride they still have enough firepower to make this a contest I want to see them compete just the way the Rangers fired back I wanna see them fire back at the king for a thirty five point shot thirty, thirty, five shot that was clearly unacceptable Berg's yes. Yes. Yeah. Garden that's what I want I. Want them running back up the court tonight one. Hold on yeah. You remember dame that long three and they started playing too short. Go down and then he danced backup the court. were, user you like that give. The Lakers long game well, the hand was that it was gained one. Was it close? Yeah. They were still down. Close we know what could happen cut lebrons as we've seen Lebron bring a team back from twenty seven. Paul George, what do you remember that I remember game one Lebron and the ball in his hands with a six point lead with seven minutes to go right in the middle of that little salvo from Damian and Update home, James No he went out the back door. But he made up on that one. I do not believe skip this was anything other than the heat check because at that point in time skip, he was not a team from the floor that's what he was. Three or four from the three point. Lame. is over the heat check. He like man hold up the good I just hit a three of a couple of Reeve until my distance threes let me just see how I actually am we've. We've seen guys get the cooking and they will pull up down there half court. Nobody's there. The thing it doesn't matter if you're down five or you up twenty guys are feeling it, he's going to heat shake the Z. just how hot I am not. Five. Five, how often are you ever up thirty five got? Adult. Skill what territory abroad need tomorrow he's the only guy in the boat. He's only in this series they got a championship, the guys a four-time league MVP, he the three times finals, vp three times all star game. Mvp a part time first team. All NBA next time. All defensive first team and he the markets territory for who now. I didn't say that I. said. Oh that was the heat check. Let me say, Hey, I'll be deliberately. Let me see. If. In fact, he marked his territory that requires some urination. And I told you he's rubbing their nose and his urinate because Marxist territory. This is what you do too young cops to teach them. You can't do that house and he was trying to do that to those young ops from Portland. You can't do that in my house body. This body lets you know that he don't normally Cook Crisco he normally with Pale. Coconut oil but right here that Lord that critical he will bow. So he let that, go from barrel glade month eighty. Degree to avail go back like he hid it from their like tiger woods in the taking his rescue fairwood out of basketball it here's a shot to fifty with feet. So you like going back up to. Like that I wanted to play the short so he could have got. Like name. Would hit me get done with it. Yes he's not from. NATO fun when the Rabbit got and just imagine if you with hunt. Big Game and our. He had he had a three eight he had a thirty thirty. Just imagine was he rabbit? So when daily. Plays where when Dame Lindsey runs the free throw line like a rabbit. So when Dame hitting them Louisville, shots is all good Now, it's all competitive because the games hanging in the balance he's doing it competitively to get the trailblazers back in the game. He's a up thirty five and suddenly goes up thirty eight. Yes, you. You remember what was that guy talking humor game too it will lay the ball game I. Think if I'm not mistaken the the blades were down twenty points and. Excuse me dame reached and then try to get the ball from a hit the back of his foot and he dislocated his finger and after the game to reporter that's terrorist dots. What was named during the game playing basketball That was Lebron Day. We're doing where he played basketball. If you had a basketball game, you shoot devolve in the basketball game you rebound all. Okay. So what the problem does Lebron. Regularly shoot logo three. Yeah do you remember all? It's GonNa. Do you remember when Zairean dumped on? A KUZMA. What are you what? Do you want to. PUT THIS PIPES MOGA Authority. So yes, he's done it. Will send a message to let everybody kN. I can't wait to see the clippers, the Lakers because I'm going to bring it up one more time Patrick Beverley at sixty one, inch tall six feet nine Lebron with the game on the line, Lebron forced to shoot a three to tie at the end of the Christmas Day against the archrival in City Clippers and Patrick Beverley. Blocked his shot on the way up because he's Only, six one and he hit the ball. So effectively hard and solidly that it went up and out of Lebron's hands off his hands out of bounds game over that's what you're up against a team that has much mentally tougher and physically tougher than your team and I can't wait for you have he's not going to be shooting any logo threes against the yeah, we will watch. Oh yes we will and we'll make. We'll make and then guess what we did guess what happened when we played the clip within their building? We posted a little up. We took him to the rat. Guess what we did we got a troop did a number on your guy. As you remember what happened in. Holo. Do you remember what happened in the playing in the game? The first one? Yeah. W. Well, let's get a shot off and made Paul George airball. Doubt What we do that factual. You won the first game because Avery Bradley hit six three including four in the third quarter while the king was scoring Zilch. What happened in the Portland Alii? Bradley said I'm not going to the level he's not there. What happened in the fourth quarter because you told me, the court is worse at. Criticized Day on Dame is the best three-quarter guy and all the band. Okay. Lebron didn't do anything for two points learn more of nope wars. The birds brought home in the four game with credit. I need flower front him. Running no pressure on his powers out with a nice little lead you got. No pressure no you had to leave. We got. We. Got It back. Stop. We got it back. How we do that without Lebron and again, you've got Paul George They Lebron. So how'd that happen every once in a while somebody goes crazy and hits four threes. Avery Bradley News. I know threes in the Christmas Day Game Way to go. I have to wait and see I do whatever way from Lebron I promise we will get back to him guys but I wanna go here because the NBA continues to react. Shooting of Jacob Lake and yesterday doc rivers was asked about it and guys he had some powerful words share take a listen. It's amazing. Why we keep loving this country. And this country isn't that love is back. And This is really so sad. I should just be a coach. And is so often. Reminded of my color. You know. It's just really sad you got to do better. But we got a demand better. Listen to this a couple times and guys it is powerful Shannon What was your reaction to what dot com to say? Some, very, very powerful worse. So he spoke emotionally from the heart because I can tell his heart breaks and if you're black men in America, you have a son you've had the talk and it's just not one talk listening to Ernie Johnson talk about how he talked to his son about the birds and the bees. Yeah. But black black men in black families must have a never ending. Planning of how we're supposed to interact something our counterparts do not have to have no and so as dr saying. Wow. You okay. We thought he was going to what we felt we were in danger. So not shooting one time we're not shooting two times not three times not four not five not seven. Could've back. Scale I thought it was the model will because they are the normal citizen you must use a reasonable enough fourth to defuse the situation. So the reasonable battle force to get this man to comply with what with. Yeah. With seven shots back. SKIP. been thinking an awful lot about this. And black skin is a weapon. Scale if you if you view my black skin of the weapon. You, will never see me as being unarmed because I'm always black. If you do my black skin every threat, you'll never see me as nonthreatening. and therein lies the problem. Because of how you view me get by far slow yesterday this lady. She adopted a BI racial on. She has a white swan she says, statistically, my brown child is more apt to have run afoul with the law. That's what she said about her own child. Sure while not saying statistically her white son is more at to commit mass murder. But you see how she did. So if he feels that about her own child, what does she think about someone? There isn't her. That's the problem. Skip a less. You can see yourself is hard to see yourself as a black man or a black woman. America if you're not that because you don't believe that can happen to you see it can happen diseases can happen. That's why people. With cancer because no matter how great how much you exercise and how healthy you eat cancer can affect you. So you can empathize with someone that's going through that because you see the ravages that can do to a body. But this gun violence. On black men and women being gunned down industry by police officers skipped you can't fathom. That reach me and then so many people lack the empathy to place themselves in that situation skip like dogs ads we keep loving country that doesn't love us back every war that's been fought in America skill every war that's been fought abroal black. So fought in that war. They fought for things that they never received at home. Yup Revolution that was fought for freedom but when the war with all we won. Back to slavery you go. To War One World War Two way you fall overseas for freedom but when you came back, Jim Crow South waiting for you. What we're asking for skill we're asking for a handout I'm not saying give me anything because I'm black but I'm also ask you not to the knobby anything because I'm black. Until at Doug said it best. We're GONNA have to break this union YEP. He's the police union, the police you. No you remember this. The air traffic controllers they went on strike they demand something. Further I'm giving you twenty four hours to get your butt back on the job. Just, whether the they didn't come back, he fired every last one of them is your banned from rehired of for Life President Clinton had to live. Back in the ninety, two, ninety, three. You'll have to break the. Union. Is, too. Powerful. They have too much control because no matter how wrong you are. They, going to band around you and says, okay, this was acceptable discovered. I'm attorney I watched did greg and he said something very interesting. He said you're going to have to make these officers take out insurance like a doctor. He says because then if they're culpable for their actions, you have to ask yourself. Do you hate black people more the you love your family because if there's monetary or there's a risk that you could go to jail, those are some serious questions that you would have to ask yourself before you leave home. Here. And I. I hurt for everything you just said. In let me say about Doc rivers for whom I have the highest regard as a low in human. We've had them here on the show. He's just. In the highest echelon of anybody I've ever been around on and off the court. It's one thing when I hear Lebron speak out or CD three speak-out as the leaders of this sport and it's great and it's powerful but it's not as powerful as that. This is. A longtime decorated head coach in this league. A black man from the west side of Chicago whose father was a cop. They were in Maywood, which is a a majority black township on the west side of Chicago dock start at Proviso. East. High School as great basketball. Tradition. So I'm sure his father grady was very proud of him but his father moved up the ranks maywood became a lieutenant thirty years served the forest. So doc knows what he's speaks he's heard it from the inside out the problems facing a cop. Out in the street, he knows it from his father grady he gets it and feels it in ways I. Don't think many people can through the eyes of a cop, honestly a black cop in mostly a black neighborhood but still. And he went into the detail of. That the training of the policemen have, it has to change number one and as you point out, unions have to be broken. My Dad was a cop and he said I believe in good cops who doesn't believe in good robs this this nation is propped up by good we. Were able to stay afloat because of good cries but the bad apples to me are still in place so as. As horrified as I was by the Jacob Blake, we're GONNA happen again while they're all down in the bubble talking about this campaigning about this. I thought how could it happen again after all we've been through the bad apples is still employed. And I don't know what was in those officers hearts but it was nothing great. was nothing right? It was. There's a better way to handle that situation obviously a better way than to shoot the main in the back seven times because he's running to his five or five, you're spivey officers. If I'm not correct, it might have been more on the scene can't subdue one man one man. And then when they can't and he runs for the driver's side door and they can seize got his kids in the car, right? Right. The only. Way To stop him to shoot him in the back I mean we could go on for hours about right. There's a stun gun right? You could use your baton you can do a lot of things. Just tap. Tackle and do thing because but. I mean, it doesn't really take much to become a police officer. And, then like you like dogs, they had the training of how they treat female skip I read an I heard I saw this. There was a man in Florida. He killed his parents. He stabbed the other guy that called the police. He's eating one of the guy's face. The female officer arrives on the scene with as it. She can't do it. They wait twelve minutes they take him alive. He killed two people stabbed another. She pays him. She weighs twelve minutes. Although think about twelve minutes she weighs twelve minutes for backup to arrive the guide kneeled on. Jorde neck for eight minutes and forty six seconds. Yeah. You see how they handle us as opposed to how they handled them. Thank God Psalm asking. How'd you going into a church Kale nine people? Gain the call go arden they were obviously he's arm escape Hell just killed nine people in the church you can bring you're bag started to get a meal colleagues hungry. Homes in Colorado the movie theaters to go to the movie theaters kicked out to walk to the data I live that close to it. He killed. Yeah. Bringing missile peacefully. Right. Too quick episodes. I've had with police over the last few years just to give you white versus black active. The. First one happened six months ago just before the pandemic I just got a new car. It has seven, hundred, fifty, five, horsepower and Abdur show I was going out to hit some golf balls and I didn't I was at a leisurely pace. I wasn't trying to speed it. All wouldn't even thinking about speeding but was on Olympic boulevard which very well, and it's how many lanes across like eight lanes right and there was little to no traffic and I came over a rise. I wasn't even thinking about pushing down the accelerator and there's a motorcycle cop with his gun up and I am busted and he just I didn't even he didn't have to wait me over I just pulled over because. Am Dead to rights and I told him that when he walked up white COP White Guy. Obviously he comes up to the driver's side. Note I'm not in a hurry. You got me and I just gave myself up right it up. I didn't tell him that but I just write me out. He said I was going fifty five in. It's thirty five miles an hour rush I didn't even know Olympic was thirty five. Okay. I. Did a Shek said last night. I did all the right things that he teaches his obviously black sons you have to comply I. complied I comply because he got me like I couldn't even argue I had nothing not a leg to stand on and guess what he did I don't think he knew who I was on I. Don't think he didn't indicate that at all. He just wrote me a warning and sit on my way if I've been I've been thinking about this a lot lately if I've been black, do you think gotten warning I I don't know but I doubt it doubt. Okay. There's a guy about DASTA. The ask him because they said it was there was somebody who was a burglar we saw and did he comply? He said you have id he's a show. Hi, got. He gave me. What do they do they come up from behind government breakers risk Gatto he did everything they asked et is. The. Second episode I had was a few years back. Ernestine. I my wife Ernestine dinner in the city visiting my who's still alive my mother and we've just been to her home and we're going back to our hotel and we're going through the neighborhood I grew up in which is. Sort of lower white it's lower middle-class I would say, but it's white. It's right. I don't know if it's all white now might be something like the whatever it's mostly white neighborhood and we're in a rented Mustang. The only car they had when we flew into the Oklahoma City Airport was a black Mustang with black rims and tinted windows. Are Not prone to drive that car. I was driving cars through this neighborhood and also I look up I'm just puttering ongoing twenty-five. Now we're talking about my mom in her health and I look and red lights flashing think what do we do? I don't know pull over on a side street and all the sudden. There's a second cop car coming. They got to cop cars right Ernestine is out of her mind she said we're being profiled because of our car maybe because they thought we were neighborhood, right? Yes right. So she's angry and two cops are getting out of the car behind us and cheap swings her driver's. Side door open and she's getting out and I'm grabbing her like you can't get out. They will not allow it. You know this. CanNot that's not complying well, it just happened to be a black female cop coming from that side and you know what? She said Ernestine get your you'll aspect. To should have and I'm trying to pull her back. You can't do this. And fortunately, that guy comes to the mail cop to my side White Guy and he looks and he says, Oh mister baileys we're sorry you know and they just let us go. They pulled us over. So help me out would have been different if orange that. I have ten windows and windows is the end it because they said we're pulling Novi because the tent and now all of a sudden they look at around. SEE ANYTHING DO I smell anything? THAT'S THE END Kept low and I think the thing is, is that when we talk about cops because there are some very good ones but the very bad ones that's been in position for just like football teams get this why you try to get bad apples out of your locker room because you don't want them to have influence over the good was coming up because if you leave those bad within there too long, they will corrupt the good ones. visit way you do business. This is where he was tall does the way he was talking. When. I when I got to Denver I, looked at Steve atwater I looked at Dennis Smith. And see how guys act the guys that were accomplished and I said, well, that's how. I want to be respectful I. Want to help the other guys. So with Ross of the other Guy Dave is another came along that's how I was to them now I got it. So these bad apple cops the racist cops they got hired with with no. They just shoot in. There's no checks and balance in the hiring process and their afloat. They got jobs right now if you haven't been weeded out is like if you if you're a doctor and you have all these red flags, this only so many times that you're gonNA have an insurance that will ensure you. Yeah. We can't because the malpractice that just to is just not worth it. Police Officers Killed The guy show have seventy, eight, hundred agents. He's still a top where he'd been investigated here. Already. Shot People. But still yet, he's on the four. How many times union thank you. If you get. A couple of DUI, you'll lose your license. Yeah. Okay. Drought. These guys can do all care and guess what? You should have to have a life. If someone if you can take someone's like adopt, I can do that police officers, pilots, pilots, can you be a problem without a license l. now point and you talking about licensed hell now. Comes in. And you're you're able to use deadly. Force. You GotTa get rid of qualified. You gotTA. Break the unions kill because the standard is so hot. You just imagine if that was the standard use in order for you to convict the normal citizens. If they were to murder or manslaughter someone if that was the standard, the police get that benefit of the doubt. People. Walking around. You is ridiculous Dr. that was that was powerful then. Boy We have a long way to go as a country and you know, I, listened to dock couple times. I've read through it every time and this is what I keep going back to you. If you watch the video, you don't need to be black to be outraged you need to be American an outraged and boy did he say that right and I hope a lot of people are listening and continuing to realize that we have a long way to go see. Paul George reverted back to playoff piece scoring a game high thirty five points while shooting four, four, eight from three, and after the game he admitted the restart of the season on hadn't been easy take listen. Pablo. Got The best of me I was just in a dark place. I really wasn't here. I checked out these past couple of games. It was just it was just difficult. But you know. Shot out the people that stood behind me that was in my corner. Positively my teammates. My family friends? everybody thank everybody that reached out to me I was just in a bad place and A found my way I'm back. and. I look forward to the rest of this run. While appreciate honesty there, Shannon Argue surprised he talked about this I'm not because I think we're seeing more athletes being open and honest with themselves. When it comes to dealing with these mental issues, I'm not saying Paul has mental issues, but he admitted that playing in the bubbly doesn't even seem like it's the playoff because you know the play out the intensity the crowd you're you're like, ooh, and everybody's going. But now everything being said from every branch of every call and he's like it doesn't even feel like that and he admitted that he let the criticism that was being spewed at him on social media. He let me get the best of it and he did and thanks to its friends and loved ones and family members that believe in Paul that he was able to rebound doc dot said talked about it in his presser that Paul came up to his room after the game and they talked about the obviously talking about basketball because they talked about a lot of other things other than basketball yet and I think that's what makes doc so good dot. Having played the game being a father of an NBA player understand the. What goals on? Yeah. Sometimes in the minds of these athletes, but for Paul to admit that Kudos to him because a lot of times give. People look at athletes as being superhuman in black nothing affects they'll lay off but you've got all this money you've got talent. You can do that only people wish they could do. You have motions. Being great at something does not exempt you from some of the problems that go on in normal person's life. Yeah and Paul George basically saying out in a dark place and some of the things that being said it affected me our loud it affect me. But I'm back now. And I understand that. This is the situation that we're in skip. They're not gonNA back bring fans you I guess the second building start letting some family members will come into the bubble. Yep. But they're not going to be fifteen thousand people understand. They're not going to be probably a thousand people in the stands. And you're going to have to accept that. But for Paul to admit that the bubble has started getting scale, we are Lebron. Say there's different. Whistle routine you about might be you even more routine to me. You get a bite to save and. They I did you get here the exact same time every single day so I could imagine you having to be in the bubble having to do this show. You. Know. I would adapt to. Set up a new routine work in the model, and then I would be driven on that Route Jeff, but it's so different. For these guys is something that you know popica- Paul's mentally with ten eleven years in his like maybe not maybe not that loan, but he's like. Man This is different but Kudos to him but opening up and making himself seem vulnerable because people sometimes people don't like vulnerabilities and he exposed his Okay. I'm I'm going to agree with you on that level, the life level, but then there's this other level basketball I on the life level I'm I'm a thousand percent with you. For him to talk publicly about what he referred to his mental health or lack thereof. For him to admit he was suffering anxiety and he said he used the word depression. It took some guts to do that. and. He went to dark place he went to I was lost. All publicly admitted to this and embraced it publicly and I respect that I respect it a lot and he said that because there are no fans in the stands that he lost his his edge is attitude his enthusiasm his drive for playing basketball. He couldn't find it anymore run I do think they're all suffering this stage what I would call cabin fever where You're cooped up. It's not like the worst. But you don't. With when the game's over as doc said, you just have to go back to your hotel room immediately homer away matter what the game is. You just have to go back to your hotel room and after a while it wears on them psychologically because you don't get to go home is a lot easier when you win. Ball. PG hasn't played well in the last three games is. Going back home you going back to your hotel room alone with your thoughts. That's the last place you want to be when you don't play well, if the loan with your own thoughts. Okay. Now I'm going to go on the basketball. Okay. On the star. level. We all know we all agree. This is a very talented basketball absolutely never been any doubt about that Kenny Spence with sand last night isn't he like a top ten player, Alan? Somewhere. In there fifteen. Yes. But for that guy for the Co Star on a team that I root for I'll be the first to tell you I love this open hearted public admission of any kind of frailty or any kind of sort of psychological weakness because it opens you up. To to the other teams? They don't fear you as much because you're showing them your vulnerability now and you play I'm being cold blooded here. But this is at the highest level Hump Layoff football or basketball. You cannot show your opponent too much weakness if any. You play sports as the top top YEP is to be easy prey on the weak remind the weekly. So if you'll, you'll cornerback suspect we're going to pick on him if you've got a week off of Lyman. Best Pass rusher oceanside. So we're going to pray Oh that that's just the way it is I'm sorry. The all in the week getty, Caso in game six you'd think some the Mavericks GonNa Lean over and whispered to him. Feel anxiety. Soft, right? Okay. So I've always said about Paul George. He's a nice guy called George Paul when he goes into these slumps lungs but he's a complimentary star he's not an Alpha personality he's not Shannon Sharpe. Has Quiet Alpha him but he's more of a leader than Paul George. Pat Bev. Lou they've all got alpha in right. I think Marcus Morris has album him but Paul is complementary. He's very talented. You could argue is the most talented player on the team don't know you could at six eight could shoot three minutes his mood, Liz he's got it. All sounds like. What I can't understand is that you know you say he's a complimentary but I I've seen him at the lead dull push the big three heat. To the break. I guess I never trusted that he was going to push him over the edge but he's giving. Lebron ever feared him because I think Lebron knew deep down he's not the Alpha he's not. He doesn't have that dog in him for him to come back what he came back from skip recipe, I? Mean once he got going and you know what? He's so fortunate to have doc rivers his coach as you point out doc, took him up in his hotel room and they talk for hours into the late night about life basketball about life. What it all means in somehow Paul came to grips. Okay I'm in the bubble, but it's not all bad and so doc is saying we love you. We believe in you who I was telling we just shoot right so dot told him I want you to come out firing and don't. You. CanNot took the first shot and made it In the first six eleven there you go. Okay. You missed his second shot, but he didn't back down he just kept on fire and boy they started really going. But you know what this is on two levels goes to show how Paul George and how trusting years of. Willing to reject themselves because PG was dated Doc's daughter. And we know what happened and Good Point Dr. Given forget to put into this thing about a coat. This is about to man you're going through something. Yep. How can I help because he did disrespect? Did. Get there. There's a stigma in our community and the black community about you know. Talking about mental issues and seeming weak and seem invulnerable but I believe you you know you can be vulnerable and not be week. Yeah. But I could leave. You can be weakened not vulnerable people. WanNa make those things they have to go hand in hand and I don't believe they are but for Paul, George. We've got to, get out of that. In Our community is that if somebody says that they're dealing with things, they'll do depressed because for the longest time. Man Big. depressed. Figured out. Sometimes you need somebody to talk to maybe maybe pg just needed to talk to and maybe you know what this man could have so much anger in so much. For what I did to his family YEP. So. Like man, he talking to me like day he did he talk to me like I'm is sewing here. He cares about me and I think those teammates come up and came up and hugged yes. Needed a big hug everybody. Yes we love you. We believe. Yes. Just go shoot. Yes. He even started out the game on Lucas. So they're saying you take Luca and you shoot it every time you touch the ball. I mean coaching. Time sometimes, it's more than exit knows. Sometimes this being able to communicate with a what a man man to man I talk about Obama talks on talking about nope no. Pin Down Catching you know no screens I'm but anyway Let me tell you what's going on. That's why to me. I've always said Donahue the best coach I've always put him above Popovich because I don't know coach pop could do quite that what did with Paul George Not that? We. PROB- maybe by me but. I mean pop just seems so curmudgeon. The full related. Pop is ballot check and bill checks not going to give you no no no. No, he's not going to try to talk you through this. Don't know. Negatives about docker versus Roy says a coach Amana leader. We we can't say enough about them right now. Then stuff from Paul George. That honesty. The clippers bounce back in a huge way. Last night riding the Mavericks won fifty four to one eleven. They held Luca Danni to twenty two points on six of seventeen shooting and suffocated him really the whole game. But there was some controversy in the third quarter when marks more steps Lucas. After the Game Map star question whether it was intentional. But said, only Morris would know for sure what his intentions were denied it and said quote I'm not apologizing for bleep. FOXSPORTS NBA analysts, Christopher start joining us now Chris Good Morning start with you. Do you believe this was intentional? Really, like Marcus Morris I like his toughest his competitiveness, this his fearlessness I think he's a great addition for the clippers and I hate to accuse anyone of doing what if indeed it was on purpose is about one of the worst things you could do on a basketball court because thank God he didn't really re injured that ankle of Luca. Donncha. Especially when he denies it. So strongly on twitter, right I? mean he used words like respect for others respect for myself, more rules and all of that. So when you see that type of denial, you almost say mad. If he's lying about this he is really a low down person. But When I watched the video. Yeah I, really yeah I feel like there's only one conclusion you can come to because it looks like he took almost. Like an awkward. Right. It's like a little extra length on that step to get to Lucas Ankle, and so I do think it on purpose and look Marcus Morris a look at what he did right after he picks up the shoe. So again, you might look at it like own was accidentally he's picking up his shoe but that's Morris as IMO throughout his career look at the many incidents he's had he's subtle he is conniving whenever he gets in a little scuffle or fall into the ground he has. A way to make it look accidental and get in a little extra jab or something like that. Remember he's been involved in two major incidents already in this series game one, he kinda gives Luke a little something extra and that's what gives porzingas us into the altercation airports suspended and then game three I. think he kind of again a little something subtle deluca and pushed him into Mantras Herro and that's when Lucas says the mantra stopped flopping big man. So Moore's is subtle with this stuff. And I think he was subtle again here and is the denial. It makes it nobody can ever prove. He did it on purpose unless he just admits. Win. Like that, you can just deny deny, deny, and say I don't care what it looks like I didn't do it on purpose so I I do think it was intentional both you've got to cover the sports business. QUARTER CENTURY FOR FORTY PLUS YEARS SKIP skip. Have you ever heard of player do something and say Yeah I did that on purpose Maybe. Rarely. Happens, but years is rare but he he went so far with the denial but again, looking at my with my eyes, tell me his history. Yeah I'm just glad Luca wasn't hurt seriously but that was that was low I was low and I think it was intention. Brittany. Okay Chris Bruce Broussard. I'm here to make the case that Luka is not quite as innocent as everybody portrays him to be I. Think there is some wolf in sheep's clothing operating here because I did think he wasn't really pushed into mantras the other day when that incident started I thought he tripped up mantras and then look sideways and with a profanity attached accused him of flopping which. Then triggered mantras to go up the court and say what he said. We talked about that the other day in this case, do I know for a fact that Marcus Morris stepped intentionally on his foot I don't but I'm with both of you it sure looks like he did and I don't have a major problem with it because I believe Marcus Morris, who considers themselves An elder statesman on this team in an. On. This team was retaliating for what Luke ahead done maybe six seven minutes earlier near the end of the first quarter to Reggie Jackson if we could see this one more time. Underneath the basket Reggie Jackson is standing. If we could see, it bleeds and shot goes up and guess what Luca basically sucker punches, Reggie. Jackson. The back of the head. He takes a swipe at him. You can see it from the overhead more clearly he just swings on him. there. You saw it and uses. The ball he hit. It looks to me like he's going for the ball. No, he hit him right in the back of the head with the PA sort of the hard palm of his hand and it's a sucker punch or rabbit punch and it knocked Reggie Jackson. Completely out of bounds and on his back and I thought maybe Reggie hit the back of his head on the hardwood but. That's not what was happening there. He got sucker punched. They did not make any issue of it after the game but Reggie. Obviously the leaves the game go to the locker room get checked out concussion protocol was able to come back and play well in the game. Thank God for that. But again, Luca started it and I believe Marcus Morris tried to finish it so. Luca again was saying he's saying all this bad stuff to me. Well Yeah. They're coming after you because you had a reputation last year that grew that you were soft you were vulnerable psychologically if teams got physical with you and rough you up and the clippers are trying to do just that. So maybe you could say just the style of play is for forcing Lucas to retaliate himself but in this case last night Lucas started it They. Give you about Lucas Time Yeah I. Say You, don't think he. Trying to knock the ball right in the back of the head he is. THERE HE IS A. Operator. He has basketball genius and he'd kohl-kok him with a shot right into the back of the head I. It's pretty clear to me as you i. what did you say that Mark Moore says he plays the game with ridden integrity you. Re. I would injure somebody just crazy to me ten years going against the best I stand on morals and hard work I compete and leave it out there every game do we got the video? Do we got the video? Porn video people at home to watch this. Now, you tell me how tell me this? Look at this. So. What else? Is that how? HIS FACE THE PROBLEM WITH That integrity was this Bill Simmons. Really. That's what I'm talking about. The little subtle. Why would he does with me? Right right also. Yeah that's already. So that's how. That's his reputation as always played. Oh, I. got it. Got It. All I'm saying is just own it. Surprised He. Vehemently. I got nothing to apologize for. He did say it was a mistake deal with this. We admitted I accidentally step but he Say. He changed his Walton Pattern to get an extra elongated with the left. So he could take his left step Lucas Limca but here's the thing intent and ten only battles to the defendant intent only matters to the person committing the back. Yeah. Lucas their ankles don't. Okay. So. Did it. Look. Now probably, Charles Oakley, would have done. So from the Oh gee I did it though what you do about? What he would say To the media would say to the guys space. Agree we all know who I? Okay. So but this situation here, he did this on purpose, he has a history of this type of behavior Joe's own it. WHO I think to skip again I agree with you. That Luke is doing some subtle things himself but I don't think the Reggie Jackson was I think he was going for the ball and just accidentally hit him but I also think if Morris had been retaliating for that I think he would have said that I think he would have saying look you saw what he did to Reggie Not Reggie out of the game I'm going to defend my players I. Am you know that's my job on his team to defend my players I think he would have came out like that. So I don't think this had anything to do with the Reggie Jackson situation or I firmly believe Moore's would said so. I'm not so sure about that and by the way the refs felt so sorry for Luca did you see what happened might have been just a player? So later he tried to inbound the ball and each he's slipped. Yeah it puts you back on we have. Put. A shoe back on whoops. Oh, wait a second. You just touch the ball inbounds you a turnover. OVER UTAH. Yesterday's Cain sits. Back. Did he go through Carlisle the game you just inbounded the ball. KRUGERSDORP Gerald he did recall out of the game? He handed Tim Hardaway Julia the ball it allow out the call a timeout to tell him to play. You can't do that came Fitzgerald said he was already trying to challenge before he handed in. What he said, why did you? Well it was another ref who was hearing the challenge. John j-o-h-n that Boone. TOLD CAMPUS JEREM I've been trying to you the bass seriously. Very bad theory. Yeah. Well, all I know is. I don't. WanNa hear anymore Larry Bird talk. Donncha. Anymore, baby. But. Yes he starts off the game shooting. Another airball shot three on Sunday. That's four and two games four Airbus Larry Bird. Shot an air ball in his whole NBA career. It's possible. He never shot either Labor one twenty-one hit a game. Well, just stop it. He was one for six last night. He's pathetic from. Though. To this and Larry Bird I n BA finals he had to eight point games. Okay. Now you know if we if you had undisputed back men nineteen eighty-one, whatever that was. Destroying Larry. Bird Eight to eight point game corn bread brand maxwell with the MVP. Yeah wait. Rookie No. Actually. Able older remember he stayed in college time. So he was he was older than Lucas right out of four solar. Chris you're saying, Larry, Bird's overrated that were. Just want know. I'm just saying, let's keep it real Larry. Bird, wasn't perfect either. He is. So if you're going to judge Luke bag game here, they're all really remember Larry Bird having to on the. Oh Luca leads the playoffs in missed free throws so far Larry Bird that ninety one percent playoff. Game. Jersey. So you get ready. To get one it's. happening. At the Lakers were already up by thirty five points in game four. Lebron decided to drain his own logo three pointer. Crossing half boards put L. A. UP Thirty Eight. The shot was from almost the same exact spot Damian Lillard logo shot from game one the big lead suggest that Lebron shot was an answer saying quote the only reason James fired that shot from that spot at that moment was to mark his territory. Crisper sort is still with us but I would like to start with you shouldn't have blazers have taken this personally. I don't know what made me sicker. Bon doing this or Lebron getting a pass for doing this. Yeah. If I were trailblazer I would have been offended and outraged and I would take offense in my outrage into this game tonight in which they are thirteen and a half point underdogs and they should play with some rage in retaliation for that game clearly had been way decided the Lakers were up thirty five points Lebron. James. The king as he calls, himself had the audacity to take a thirty six foot shot and then run back up to court giving it a yes. Yes As if you just hit. Dame winning walk-off shot in game seven. What are you doing Lebron James? He is lucky that that this. This is the ultimate rub your nose in shot. It's the ultimate showboating hot dogging. Front running shot that if you were playing the sport a baseball, you would get the next pitch the next time up right between your eyes, eyes right right at your ear because you saw what happened in Baseball last week Fernando tot tease plan for San Diego against the Rangers one out in the eighth they're up ten to three in its three and he swings on. Pitch and he jacks it a grand slam and the rangers were so outraged that manny. Machado, was up next and where did the pitch go? Bind Him. It's called a purpose pitch message got sent. Chris. Woodward the Rangers Manager Got Tossed for for signing off on this. After. The game we took that personally as a group, you should to trail blazers thirteen and a half dogs that you are tonight you still you don't have Damian Lillard, obviously. You don't have that collins but you got mellow. You Got Gary Trent Junior and you got whiteside and you've got. And you got those kids have all come in and play pretty good big minutes for you come out and play like you mean it give it right back to the king and those front running Lakers who will not take you seriously tonight and make this a game I wanna see you effectively fight back and effectively go down swinging. So before you go, what should the blazers new blazer come out and do whatnot player play harder? Push back I want to see a physical game. I WanNa see Lebron bounced around a little bit I wanna see a little Marcus Morris Action. That's what I want to say yeah. You know let's go. Here's what I say to the blazers take it personally be offended be upset be ticked off whatever you want. This is when I didn't play Pro Sports of course, like Shannon did but I do not WanNa hear pros complain about somebody running up the score somebody taking a 35-footer when the games out of Hand Somebody Duncan when the game is you know out of out of hand or anything like this if you don't like it stop them. That's it. If you don't like Lebron, James Thirty Five, then defending block the shot comeback hit a thirty, five hundred and his face dunk on whatever these are pros you are being paid to do this. It's not CYO NOT YMCA NOT. NC double even you are paid to do it. So I hate it when I hear about all the unwritten rules I, love for what Fernando Tattoos did get him a grand slam you don't. Strike me out next time if you don't like it. So I'm totally fine with what Lebron did. Look, the brand I- Lebron like being shown up I. Know He respects Daimler we all know that but he doesn't like anybody showing him up or getting a little more love than a hill and so I do think there's no coincidence that he took that shot from about where dame took it and buried it and he was talking about that game close. In fact, the trailblazers were as usual trailing in that game when he took that shot. You should know in a circumstance was same but the where it was on the floor, he showing you dame is great but I can do it too. And he did do thirty five. Yes you're playing basketball. showboating. US tonight. Chris I. Remember in two, Thousand and seven. The New England Patriots thirty five to nothing on the half, the Tennessee titans that was the your Tom. Brady was the first unanimous mvp they end up going on Tom. Brady is throwing touchdown passes late in the fourth quarter fifty nine nothing. Now down here by the by you shouldn't run to score. Komo. Time time out. Yeah. The throw an eighty yard bomb on third and short. Did he do that? See? That'd be tricky that'd be rubbing their nose in he's running his office just running the. Lebron playing football Lebron's not play basketball if he did he play liberty. Common shot today's NBA. Right let let me tell you what the Blair should do tonight. They should pack their bags and bring them to the arena. So that way once they lose the game, then go right to the airport and get on a plane and get back to Portland. That's what they should do. Yeah. The lady. The teeth in the corner. He has some warm water will limit she wound up in Boca Cork over. Bill you loaded I know that this is what we know about the broad. You remember earlier in the year when Zairean don't a Kuzma. Lebron Comeback Right down the court and do Chris. Lawrence to Puerto Rico you thank you. Thank you better than me. No you. Got Nothing don't wait until the Lakers right headlong into the Kalinda. Let's see who's got that dog game. Let's see who's mentally toughest visit ain't the king. All of the here. My. Back. Yeah. They. All Mitchell. News. Chris I may scare me communicated with the both of May or May that that's not the here nor there. You know this is this is mental and physical athletic warfare, and if taken at 35-footer puts his a message to the blades and bury them in this is doing. The Basketball just shut him down shoot up thirty six footer when they're down thirty five. Make it thirty. Yes. Yes. They'll get down thirty five talk. But This is what this. Man No run to score a point. Do you a favor if I run to score a million cathy if I beat you about you points, you think a few possessions, their few possessions there. We could win this game beach about fifty. You know you got no chance the clippers scored a hundred and fifty points last night playing basketball they just play basketball they did it the right way. Why are you to show hey? Ron Christie. Thirty point forty. degrees. Because what you playing Basketball Lebron's play basketball yes. He might look that's what I'm talking about. The trailblazers only by pull up. There they did like to nine. Coup, they can't wait to get out of that. Road. I saw the champs on display. Last night is like thin role in basketball. You know when you get that twelve fourteen th-they, they win a couple of gave you to this week. You Roy. Can't go all the way. I personally love Lebron's comments only because I? Wish I could do that. So modesty. Saturday, night is a huge night of foxing on Fox as their slur defends a super welterweight world title against Brakeman, Deti plus legendary brawler. Afraid Oh as Ghulam takes on Caleb sweats, the action begins at eight eastern on Fox on the Fox sports APP. Donovan Mitchell and Jamal Murray continued to put on a show in the jazz nuggets series nuggets forced a game six last night behind Murray's highlight filled forty two point performance. Mitchell had a team high thirty points in the loss, each player but four of eight from beyond the ARC. So skip I'd like to ask you how impressed. By these guys. Chanting. It just keeps happening every night every. Is a shootout. Between these two rising star who both achieved stardom right before your very eyes. This was some special stuff. This is, can you top this clutch shotmaking? From distance in acrobatics at the rim that are just spellbinding to me and just quickly. Speaking the acrobatics the shot that Jamal Murray pulled off at the end of the third quarter on the two time defensive player of the year Rudy Gobert. The spin move. This is pretty extraordinary up and under and around three. Big. Game. And right handed back off the glass. Pretty special and then with about four minutes left in the game back and forth it goes. This is one more time. We get Donovan Mitchell going the other direction in. WATCH THIS UNDER DUNK It's just like I will not be denied I'm going to impose my will back on the game you just took me. And I tweet this every night that I watch it because it happens every fourth quarter. Just, me that's the real dame time I keep waiting for Damian Lillard Dame time and I'm seeing Donovan Dala and I'm seeing dame time Jamal because they're just going back and forth in its high level clutch shot making close games down to the wire one team pulls away at the end or the other does and. I've got to say Jamal been even more extraordinary than Donovan hands. And I watched Jamal last year beat my spurs with the game seven jumper at the Buzzer. So it's not like he hasn't done it before. So look at what they've been doing in this series it's now three to to Utah. Five Games Donald JR average in thirty eight and six assists Jamal's average in thirty one and seven assists and these are more shooting guards than point guard. So Dame against your Lakers so far is averaging twenty four not terrible but not what he was wasn't sixty fifty, right? Thirty nine right. And he's averaging against the Lakers four assists twenty, four and four, and both these kids are averaging more assists six for Donovan seven for Jamal than even day MS with only four sis-. And in the fourth quarter, which is all in the end, I ever really care about. joe-marie is averaging fourteen points per fourth quarter. A think about that that's five games averaging fourteen a night in the fourth quarter I mean most guys score fourteen OCCA- game. In. Don. Mitchell is averaging fifteen points a night in the fourth quarter and Jamal Murray in the four. Five fourth quarter says made eleven of fourteen threes. That is clutch time. That's dame time to me that I still haven't seen from Damien himself and Donovan in the fourth quarter says made six of thirteen threes. That's forty six percent, which is pretty good. The other seventy, nine percent. So again. Dame had that flurry in game one mid fourth quarter. He made three threes but I haven't seen the consistent dominance that I've seen from these two young men. They're both twenty three years of age. But man they have arrived before your very eyes and they're putting on clutch shows the lives of which. and. It's been a long time since I've seen that in this league figured you go back, skip I'm GONNA have to go back to probably I. Think it was eighty eight when Boston and Atlanta and the making Larry Bird was going back and forth by that that was one game business been the entire series because remember they've had a game with both go fifty they've had a game where. Donald Michie goals for fifty seven and Murray goals for forty plus so when you look like. What can you do want whatever the other try to top it is like real legitimacy going? Yeah. We tried to win the game that's the team unless you mentioned you. mentioned the high level of says that both got both gathering ministry but I will get my buckets because I'm not gonNA. Let you outdo me. Then you you mentioned as Donald Mitchell has engaged what he went for Twenty, eight, twenty, two, hundred, forty, six in overtime and game four eighteen in the fourth game five twelve Jamal. Berkowitz Ten and game what? Overtime Fourth Quarter Twenty one in game four in the fourth quarter sixteen in game five he went with thirty three in the second half. Of the last game. Played unbelievable. They're playing unbelievable. Now they got guys now skip that can just flat I get bookings. Everyday. There's nowhere rather they got guys that can just legitimate and I'm not going to be surprised I mean it's been a while bad or by by but we might get to the point. We're going to have six thousand guys averaging thirty plus. Eagle Cave cutting back Dane Bradley beal average thirty this year. Janas. We've really going to have six or seven guys that can we've got the guys can shoot it so good now. Back, with Larry and Michael Play they're all a handful of guys and they were specialist. All these guys can shoot the ball they can shot unlimited range you can go and what makes them so dominant skip not only can they shoot the three? That's another thing we would dane he can. He has unlimited range, he got mid-range and he can get to the basket. What can these guys do? Shoot the three mid range get to the basket and buried the free throw shooters and so. I've been very impressed. I mean for Donovan Mitchell to have to gave that's only happened twice in the history of the NBA Michael, Jordan Alison to fifty point game in the same series and I'm actually a little more impressed as much as I'm impressed with Jamal but with Donovan Donovan's only six feet, one inch tall, that's what he's listening to that. In Donovan does not, have, Yokich he's an author Can Lean on Yokich occasionally yoke Chit. The Big Three last night. It was from the corner and he just ripped it clean. So again, you've got that and remember Yo could start off the game and made eight straight shots at a joke. It's not the game. Mata got. Ahead, you'll get not dinwiddie joker done what he did in the first quarter. Yeah. Because he kept attacks I mean he could miss he couldn't miss and he he cooled off but then in the third quarter. Slowdown Murray they've been. It's been good. Now he's six four, but you were talking about will you WanNa talk about killer will give me the ball and get out. In time, skip you guys like that. You gotta try to get the ball out of saying yeah. You gotTa make millsaps. You GotTa Make Jeremy. Grant. You GotTa make you gotTa make some of these other guys beat you. I mean excuse on his but you could make a dolgin make those guys don't be no hero. Yeah we go play the because you saw the clippers clippers say you know what? Enough of this? Yeah. Hardaway finished meal you guys can beat us on. A consistent basis we're gonna live with that just will let your superstar Gore. Well, Mike. vallone. Said after the game when Jamal Murray that there are a lot of guys in this league who run from those moments this guy looks for those moments and he does but both of these kids do this who this this is unbelievable. There's been some great basketball and I like I love the back and forth I look I I would like to see them guard each other. But you exert too much energy like that. But for Jamal Murray have done and the third importing game in game five. See. Our topic of the day sponsored by Burger King Mix and match your favorites for just five bucks. Just. One night after Lebron and the Lakers made a statement by blowing out the blazers to take a three one series lead the clippers match that show of dominance blind the clips throttled the Mavericks won fifty four to one eleven to regain their series lead at three, two two. So Shannon, which was more impressive in their statement game while mostly the Lakers and the clippers play great there's no denying that anytime you make. What they go twenty. Twenty Five hundred, three point line fifty, three, hundred, forty, shot sixty, three percents from three point line sixty, three percent from two point. Anytime you that was an unbelievable farmers. Let's not pretend the math didn't play without the second best player. For things that happened rice get that. Okay. So just just making sure that so. Portland that full-strength day CJ market whiteside mellow. No Zach Collins. Well. He's a starter question. WHO's a better player Brazil's that call obviously but they were down Zach Collins and Trevor Rees didn't make it to the ball game. We'll get down we doubt what you call we down. Bradley Yep okay. Down Boogie who so the have boogie. Boogie, you didn't want it yet we D in. The preseason mean before the season started but anyway. But the only problem with you. And other people that believe in the clippers is that when they lose, you give me all they hadn't played together. And they hadn't played together but they win look at that bowl move. The Ball Movement there Paul George. Okay. So when they lose Paul George, when they lose worthwhile when they lose wear blue whereas trade. All you do is make excuses for when they lose. But were they aware that? You always will be wait. Wait wait I can't wait. You're looking at your MBA champion. How do you know what I tweet? Re tweeted to be. Bad explains it. Somebody's creeping. Creeping, anything, but get looked. Both teams played really well, but I thought. The Lakers played a little better defensively because they would suffocate. How many possession if you have zero points a you Eight minutes into that ballgame. How deep risk novacaine suffocating. You. Might ask Luka how suffocated he felt last night when he managed twenty two points on six of seventeen shooting one for six from three and a grand total of four. SIS-. That's called suffocation by the best defense in Pro Basketball Win it decides to be and I knew it would last night in here at King. Better than us, getting come on. What are the numbers say? What do the numbers say defensively rated when my team decides and when my team is at full strength, my team plays better defense. You know it and I know what I'm talking about top to bottom, and my team is still not at full strength because Patrick Beverley is only able to trash talk from the Ben Zion let him trash talk on the floor he Muslims 'cause he'd running his mouth. Awful Lot. Well I. Think he's going to be running his legs pretty soon because I think he's going to be back for the next game. That's what they're saying. He's got a pulled calf and you know and I know those can be troubling. They can maybe never leave you alone, but the point is he is the one he is the fire starter for this defense he brings the edge, he brings the emotion he brings the electricity to the defensive end Trez brings the emotion to the offensive end. He can also block a shot here and there mostly on offense when he just attacked and donkey to charge he he. Currently down and got an one. You got an an one and he was actually playing his way into shape last night and. Out The best development was that docked just kept him into the bitter end. Nineteen and eleven in a grand total of about twenty two minutes just over twenty two minutes. Okay. I saw the old trump obviously he missed much of the bobble. He missed all those scrimmage games and he missed the whole end of the regular season. He's trying to play himself back into shape and they're trying to play their way back into defensive mindset. Shape and offensive share the ball shape because they haven't been sharing the ball on offense at all, it's been collider bust. He's been doubled nearly every possession last night while la the ball started to move craig white shooters are open everywhere. Thing is giving you can't double Kawai while George, hitting shots like that. Thank you. Marcus Morris was making threes Reggie Jackson. Seemed like everybody everything everybody put up the ball was going into the whole. So it makes it impossible cadillac what the Lakers skill when they started making no three's case ep Danny Green making threes. Now, all of a sudden you can't pack the lane you gotTa get there on them shooters now Lebron is working one on one with me one on one again, Gantry Junior, and then the floor space. So give those guys credit they made shots. I don't know who said it, but dot gets credit for saying it is the maker mislead when you make shots, things get a lot easier for you but you also have to defend people and keep them from making shots and matching you. But when you go twenty, I don't know if I've seen someone shoot sixty, three percent per month report latte not in shoot many threes skip. Okay you should not an okay you go fix a ten, seven, twelve something like that. I get that. But when you put up thirty five threes and you make twenty two other sh so just imagine if the rockets shot sixty three percent without me three shoot up sixty. Near the bottom of the barrel on shooting event. At the top of the barrel on. To make right. Here's the bottom line. This clipper team is mentally and physically tougher than your team and I think you know that heart-to-heart you know that you can argue that Lebron Eddie, you're just more talented in that talent will out it will prevail but. I never seen anything like this. We'll listen this Guy Leonard this guy named. Number. Good. Stock dropping commercial after commercial every time I look up, he's got a new. You just live. We we we. Do we do. We, we came out with the tunes while he got now. This town that mid range jumper that Lane Jeffer- that eight ten, twelve foot jumper is just deadly. Claw. Just holds it right there and just wishes ekg this large bra nobody it's almost like he's dunking from ten feet because he just skill he can't dislodge Brung. You see he can put that shoulder he could put that he'll own Hardaway Julia Penny Smith Lebron guarded brawny going to eight minutes. Is He going on Bravo forty eight nobody will last? Time we gave it to Mars we gave it a PG we gave it a quiet. Okay. We got all you better. Be Follow you. They're gonNA come. It's going to be an onslaught. To come out of the field of pre-game I get back I'm GONNA, give it to you. In the first quarter. We'll give it to you in the third quarter. If you don't feel left up, you won't catch it in the fourth quarter. Really. Get there you're going to do that to the Los Angeles won't do. You work the first quarter. Hey Marcus. Circuited third and fourth quarter. I'm. GonNa lose embrace. You did that against the chiefs or Raiders? No, I, don't think you. Know. aspirated about me yeah? Oh One Ball no no, no no no is safety wants to. Get about work. Crazy to me I said okay. Dude out our cover short like blanket as they coming back at three weeks tevin bring that same blanket and then he covered me narrow here. For fifteen bring that did there's a new, Shannon? Sharpe and he plays for the Clippers and his name is Pat McNally. Yeah. He's. Town. Hall Axel Down. Is You gonNA. Give. You I don't know if he's hall of fame bound, but he is the. Insane I didn't. Hall of fame without a first place vote for defensive player of the twice he's made first team all don't you leave make all star team Yep you do okay. I'm not saying that I'm just saying he is the fire starter and once he comes back you're gonNA see a whole different defensive energy from all of the above and all sudden if you were watching Lou will he he's limited pepper but he's he's putting adding all over the. About to compare to other. I'm just saying he's that guy for this team. So that's what I at. Bay I. With. Lou Williams and mantras. Herald coming off the bench it is you just cool. Cool everyone. Incomes in go. There, and he's not and we got to run up and down the. Corner. I'll do yeah. We'll see how that goes. We just got to make sure he don't. You know you know what he's done. And Bunches you get one and then they got like two minutes man every time I look up somebody else making a three and I gotta tell you Marcus Morris can flat out shoot it. Landry Shamet can shoot it. They are tough minded. Okay. Physically tough. They'll get up in you. This team is loaded hormone. Free thrown his. Look Lebron. You, walk free throws your teams the worst free throw shooting team. Go Fix A. Bad Night Oh all he did was or thirty two and twenty nine minutes that'll work skill I. Remember I remember we got a championship. Thanks guys missing free throw him. Would you say you want free throws in the clutch? RIANA TAMERS EUBANKS deal. Yeah. Thanks to Ray. Ray. They. Play. So, if he makes it free throw we did the right Yup. You would have been dead. Now eighteen years of age. About what the way eighteen Polo K.. K. straight straight up who was forty eight, that night forty, eight years of age, and they both missed free throws. Up Five with eighteen seconds left. How do you? I don't know how to happen. It would have grail happened David. Go James missed the tying three lubricated and then we got us and then we got overtime what happened. My team was shot in the heart. Who did who did the shooting right out Skip I really enjoyed the PAT by comparison. You. Got Grab. Probably loves the with. A positive message for Patriots fans after the departure of Tom Brady Ataman posted a photo picture to Instagram with Cam, Newton a superman and himself as Batman the catch and reads the night is dark just before the Don and I promise you the dawn is coming. This is a quote from the. Batman. Movie. The Dark Knight. I don't know I find this little tourney Shannon. What do you think what he posted you? Are they have a very high opinion of himself as Batman because he does he do does he realized that Batman is not a superhero because he doesn't possess any superpower. For me everything is a costume in. Graduates belt got a bill that what he does. Building Armband. He's got an army, but I ain't got no problem with problem with it because remember Tom Brady he mom I'm having a great time at camp a mess new free and. You handle problem with that problem be Superman Batman to the rescue really a new dawn really own the horizon. Shared. System. Fields. Gone. Yes. I hate to say this, but CAM has not been superman for a couple of years and Edmund definitely wasn't any Batman last year when he led the League in drops and was part of a receiving core was dead last in separation the national grimace. He gave it up to be with lowest. He came up auto superpower to be with Lois but he could go back and them your coming back to give them really interesting. You know who the Real Batman was in. New. England. Bruce. Wayne's now down in Tampo Bruce what Oh. By. Day and then only did was rescue the patriots in six super bowls with six game winning fourth quarter drives. How you like that's Batman esque right there. Actually the is ran Batman everything is going. Yeah. Well, he's going to be exposed this year with. Their no superhero. What about yoga getting exposed now I'll he's. DP. Super Bowl bound known playoff. Horny of that Guy Tom Brady. Just, remember that just remember that. Peter we're back at the same time tomorrow I'm good day guys.

Lebron basketball Los Angeles Clippers Luca NBA Patrick Beverley Marcus Morris Portland Paul George Rangers officer Lebron James Lakers Lebron Skip Shannon Avery Bradley Front Running Shannon Sharpe TA
F1 2019 regs explained with Pat Symonds & Gary Anderson

The Autosport Podcast

53:07 min | 2 years ago

F1 2019 regs explained with Pat Symonds & Gary Anderson

"The constant energy the tight turns. And bustle of the city some survive. It others will may to conquer it the first ever left with US, and you X escort crossovers crafted for the new frontier, you X starting at thirty two thousand experience amazing, but your Lexus dealer. Click the banner to discover more Misora. Peak lose delivery processing handle the of one thousand twenty five with may be subject to change at anytime. Excludes taxes, title, license. An optional Whitman dealer. Price will vary. Uh-huh. It's also spoke podcast. We explain that's unseen one regulations with the help of Pat Simmons, and Gary Anderson. Ones testing gets underway in just a few weeks. And as even more eager anticipation than usual, head of the call. Thanks, the arid. I make rule changes Twenty-nine saying on your host add stroll, we'll be having ones Simmons whose research for the twenty twenty one regulations has influenced the nineteen roles later on. I'm also have Gary Anderson verdicts, but I'm also joined bar technical editor j box a leg. You've had your head buried in the regulations for some time. Now, you've got all memorized, a wouldn't say a have keep forgetting a few little salient factors in all of them of got a general grasp of what they're gonna do how they work. What teams are going to have to do and what they have to change. So. Yeah. Been looking a lot of looking at a lot of wings of the last few weeks. So yeah, they'll be proceeded to have this book us. Well, the place to start would beats a run through the regulations that the basic objective in the most simple. Terms is to me the cost better following each. Other through mitigating the timing out, washing simplifying the car info carriers front wing in particular, bright dogs Bosch bulls, and the railway this'll falls, I swear see changes. So that's that's run stuff with with the front running. What's changed? So I think the main geometry the front wing is. Interesting of the whole regulation set up they on now two thousand millimetres wide. That's two meters with an increase of two hundred millimeters say that now absolutely massive and the twenty five millimeters deeper. So the idea that is to bring a bit more downforce to the wing and away because they were all of these little flicks and vortex generators and little wing cascade wings on the Annette losing Laver's losing the vortex tunnels as well. So that introduces media Fronton downfalls, but it reduces the downfall of the rest of the car around them and something we'll get into one of the biggest changes to the front wing is the end plates as well. Now, if this prescribed geometry, they can't be. Make up these tiny little elements turning directly out around the front wheels is going to be a little bit more is reduced quite frankly. And basically the the angles that you can have the answers I and the number of pieces. Yep. Slightly say the end plates nutty one piece and all angles that make up the end play. They can't be greater than fifteen degrees to a line parallel to the Senate line the car. So basically any extreme angles. They're out essentially to reduce the amount about wash and that kind of ties in with what's going on at the back with the railway that now hundred millimeters wider, seventy movements Toler nuts to interact with the front wing more closely. You have to change one. And then change the other otherwise, you know, you'll the effect of the wake the trying to develop to create better following drag. It's just not going to do that. So these. Wings of nothing changed north facilitate up. The Ray wing as well as simpler, rare wing end plates and the LED lights on these railings as well. Just improved visibility in wealth. Labor's -bility conditions, and we saw those trailed intesting boss alone. Las to memory says Mercedes head with them. Yes. Something like that. I think we go office. Actual look in the flesh of what that looks like on the burn you at three Carvel things. So yet again, this just gonna help improve visibility. When light is pretty low or you're in rainy conditions or something like that. The simpler, Ray wingham plates that kind of ties in with the change in budge will geometry as well, which is not really for too much venero dynamic effect is more of a commercial affect just to improve visibility of sponsor legs on the car as millions of sponsor Lagos cover phone calls. These absolutely again, the change in barge boards said that now hundred and fifty milliliters vertically short, but that's of longer towards the front end of the car clawback a little bit of the facts. But again sharing of more sponsor gates without all of the little cups in the bar joie at the getting in the way in the last couple of seasons and the bright doctor have been simplified as well. You know, we've seen the last couple of seasons. Come progressively, more complex lot, mostly the wingless and stuff on them. And they've got Fitna a lot smaller radius. So they can't extend out the front of the tire as they used to. Yeah. It's a lot more simple. So. Hopefully is going to have some tangible fact come Floyd axles, either county absolutely also on so it's very difficult audio forms communicate. What these will look like. But the basic thing, even though it simplified, I think if you're gonna look at them and be wowed by how dramatically different I think you people notice it. But it's not going to be like we saw in seventeen with the arrow changes lion. All two thousand nine when there was a a real fundamental change in the proportions of the car is now, I definitely know. I remember thousand nine the cause of changed quite lot and people were very taken aback by say, look say different and people says plow front wings and. Yeah. And the railings very skinny as people at Walt is thoughts, and then twenty seventeen people were like, okay, that looks a lot better than obviously had a little bit of the facts on the the product so aesthetics on everything. Nobody's gonna it's not gonna be a massive difference. This yell at say. As a small step, but hopefully positive step even though it's it's going to solve the problem. Right. Well, we're about to hit from Pat Simmons explains in more detail, and how these rules were conceived broadly speaking the roles have been put together by nNcholas Tom buses that a single seater as the FAA based on the findings of this research haven't they yet? And so Formula one produce late of concept designs that sort of thing they've got their own in house research team say they're able to do because they're not limited like f one teams are to CFD power. Not come thing means they can just produce hundreds of simulations on how caused gonna follow each other. And that kind of thing, and it's how they've happened upon this Rosset twenty twenty one we expect we the big one the FAA had a look at the research and thought okay, there are some points that you then not particularly time-sensitive we can carry them forward as a bit of a benchmark and then see of twenty twenty one can then continue. So that that sort of how it's come about. Really? Yeah. It was a very. A rapid process getting Israel's originally that's done by the end of April get in three point majority excited never called them three ball unanimity of the teams. Several teams red bull, for example. He he would add against those those changes being made. So it's yeah. It's an interesting stop. So let's hear from from Pat Symonds you I actually start off by slot. Mischaracterizing, how actively involved F one has been specifically in these rules, even though it's Simmons's work that has has impacted them as influence was given the the directions they kind of pick some out of let's say from Pat Simmons or Pat you've been very heavily involved in the research and the creation of the the twenty nine hundred rules. This is quite an unusual thing in Formula one, and it seems very very much research and analysis base more than perhaps some of the things we've seen in the past. You think that's correct? And how was the whole thing worked not not not entirely, correct? Actually what I have been heavily involved in is the research into the twenty twenty one. I so you rose. And very deliberately when we started this this project. Nearly two years now eighteen months two years ago. We knew that. It was a big project. We knew we needed time. And so twenty twenty one was very logical point to to aim for was a moving into end of the current Concorde agreement, although the bilateral agreements cetera. And. Senate him onto to rush into things. You may not invoked in the taken working group that. Ultimately, formulated, the the article three the bodywork regulations for two thousand nine and I learned a lot from that not necessarily about Eric annex overtaking because it wasn't a very mature project. But I did learn if you are careful you've producers set of rules where you think one thing and the other competitors think another, and I think there were so many things that came along in two thousand nine and subsequently that we just hadn't in visited a time is in rush to to bring anything out early. However after strata. Which hasn't been a great rice issue people? Remember? If I decided that they would like to look at work. We were doing we were working closely with them and still all. And say whether there was anything that could be brought forward and introduce furred for twenty nineteen. Now bearing in mind that. Regulations can be changed for the following year with with a majority agreement before April thirtieth and bearing in mind. The straight air is mid March emend about six weeks from. The idea of should we do something for twenty nineteen to get getting something written down and agreed with the teams which is quite a challenge. So what happened was I looked at our research, and they took a few things from it. And I did a little bit of interpolations. So we had never run anything that was exactly light with twenty nineteen Cobb. But we we stop there shooting principles by then. And so based on those principles nNcholas tone basis, the FAA was charged with writing some regulations twenty nineteen I'd mixed feelings about the time. Because I I absolutely any today to some extent I didn't want this to be in this position where we hit rush something through. But at the same time, it's quite nice. It'll test of where we were. So I guess if owns going to say, well, all the work and the answer is we'll find out, but I think that. I think that they will be positive now bear in mind that with the carring 'cause the the right to development is very high. We introduced these arid regulations in twenty seventeen and. They were announced actually very early twenty sixteen. So the the design period for the twenty seventeen cars was remarkably short if you look back at two thousand nine or twenty fourteen which was lawsuit of reasonably big Aritomi change those regulations were around a lot longer than they had been twenty seventeen. So that when the twenty seventeen guys came out, they were quite immature in terms of Errington, I development twenty eighteen thousand cows. We're looking at the moment moved on a long way and the development rights is is very high right now. So by neutering that little bit in two thousand nineteen. If nothing else will keep the status quo, and the fact is that with the way the performance is being put on the cars right now at noon, I'm talking about the the single call to lead. Call performance is being done in a way that is detrimental to the the following fact. So if we maintain the status quo and at the same time even slightly improved the wake characteristics, then. Yeah, we've done the right thing. Now trouble is that they overtaking conundrum is not just about air deny makes Nores about tickling Ariza namings. When we say, it's about air tonight makes sense about some fundamental changes some far more far reaching changes much more than we've done for twenty nineteen and there are many other factors that come into. For example, people underestimate the effect on the ties in the minute. Call gets behind the stars losing a bit of grip that that lacquered loss of performance is compounded. Excuse the pun by the time performance, dropping off tars deciding more they over heat. They lose performance. And so it say, you know. It says so generating spiral of destruction rarely and if we've perhaps hope that a little bit then great. But but I don't honestly thing we'll see really fundamental changes to to twenty one. It's interesting. You mentioned the overtaking working group things as onto stunned which the very dangerous thing societies. Probably but months standing is that one of the things that the nine regulations with with wide wings and the kind of moves was out wash. Arizona makes that's money intended consequences, and some of the interactions of the the athlete is out washed with railway, and then Volta sees of the wing was the front wing I've had mushroom effect. He uses a frie- doesn't my house one. When that you recognize any sense. But that's one of the big things, isn't it with the the trying to correct? The intended consequences of the. The past. Let's pick that. Okay. I think if we go back to the retaking working group work, which was done two thousand six and seven nothing regulations written them for two thousand and nine and I wash, of course, his of phrases in common usage. Now. It wasn't then. And I don't think we had. Well, I don't think I know we an appreciated the the the important. So our what we had done is. We had realized that what you did need to try and lift the way to the car up, and this is the mushroom affect no reason it's called mushroom affect who's the if you take a slice from your your safety simulations, which beautiful colored things saying that the total pressure by the car, and you color, it depending on the intensity of the total pressure. You you get a shape looks a bit like a mushroom to mushroom affect out wash means the ad. Yeah. That's hitting the the car. Gets pushed out sideways, and that leaves a a large area of low energy that the that the following car has to come into which doesn't produce downforce because his love energy doesn't producers much now. So that those are the sort of mechanisms now what I think we we realized in that early work was that. We understood the the mushroom affect we understood the tip vortices. It came off the rear wing. We knew that we had to lift those up narrow them we understood that what that left was the stalk of the mushroom. If he liked which was low energy air in the middle. We didn't want that to be downforce generating area. So we we came up with the neutral central section of the wing and we widen the wing so the front the front wing. I'm talking about now. So the the front downforce was generated tips, which will likely to being in cleaner app and in those principles us. We went wrong with them and our current works. Still suggests that particularly with the mushroom is absolutely what we should be doing what we hadn't. Appreciate it was that the transition between this neutral section and we put in the middle into the more complex wing sex. Actions. Was going to be so fundamental in the performance of the cars now. Some of the the nerds amongst our listeners may have heard of that the Y two fifty vortex. Everyone's favorite. And yes, topa my list of my top ten vortices the world. I was called Y two fifty. Well, this the central section of the neutral part in the front wing, which is very obvious. When you look at the causes the clean bit underneath the news. It's five hundred millimeters wide or from the center line of the car. It's two hundred fifteen millimeters the edge of it from the from the central I'm and in our coordinate system. That means on the y axis is two hundred fifty millimeters out. So we call that the y two fifty and as it transitions into a proper downforce generating section as a huge vortex comes off. They're not vortex becomes incredibly important pushing the front will wake outside ways. And you combine that with front end plays produce a lot of our wash. And that is where you get your performance because all this horrible low energy ad that's behind the front wheels. Instead. It now affecting your lovely racing. Golly. Pushing out and trying to affect someone else's racing and giving yourself. Nice clean it to drive through. So I think the interesting thing is that to answer your question is that I don't think we appreciate it our wash in those days, and and you know, it's funny that. In two thousand nine of course, the brawl was by far the best car started essays by long long way. And the double diffuser was on that car on the Toyota, and it was on the Williams all of which were performing reasonably well Toyota, particularly made a big step. And I think everyone was looking at the double diffuser, which of course, was a large part of it. But I think they were Norring front wings, and particularly Toyota Frank Dernie who is looking after technical side, the true that time I think he had appreciated that the the front wings perhaps as important and they out wash they would generating on their front wings, giving them performance the rest of us probably hadn't seen and interestingly the three people involved in the the overtaking working Gruber's myself, Patty low. Times McLaren Rory Byrne who is for Ari. I I was at Renault the time. And when you look at probably three worst cars two thousand nine it was 'cause we produce because we'd written down what we wanted the cars to look like an in our minds. That's what we had then let out sign teams to produce. Whereas the others who hadn't been set closely involved. They just read the regulations thought as I should do. How do we explain these? So how do you define a whole is not hauling saturate the less? Yep. But I think the the kind of under depending thing there is the nineteen is very much an interim small staffing. It's twenty one is the is is the big big focus. And you know, the point that we we started with valid about the level of research. If memory serves the WJ was a few people getting tell think team Bugden fifty thousand or something that little bit wins. This is only on a different scale, isn't it? What what you're able to do now. Yeah. Absolutely require the teams did put in some money. I can't remember how much it was. He may be bit less than that. But it certainly didn't take us fall. Safety was I wouldn't say it's in its infancy. But it it. It certainly wasn't at a level of we. We can run now said yes safety. Sorry shouldn't use acronyms that computational fluid dynamics the study of the airflow on the owner computer without using a wind tunnel. The wind tunnel work. We did we decided we had to have two cars in the wind tunnel that weren't any big wind tunnels available to us. So we had to go to court as scale models, which wasn't a great thing to do detail records scale models, very difficult and actually from the separation that we could go restore some great. The work. We're doing now is autism magnitude more sophisticated. Only early work is is safety based, but we're using very different safety techniques. Within the teams, and I want to get technical because this isn't a technical podcast. But within the teams they have limitations in the rose has to how much heritage make research. They can do and one of the consequences of this is that they do. They do the computation fluid dynamics. But then they affectively time average the results. So what do I mean by that? Well, for example, when you're driving along in your car on a winter's morning like we have rapidly approaching us now and look at the exhaust to the car in front of us, probably some steam coming out of it. And you see that that steam doesn't just come out in a nice steady patent is blowing all over the place as the this sort of low pressure behind the call is continually changing. Well, if you time average tight, you know, if you took a long exposure picture of at you, you you'd see a stream that was generally one direction. But if you if you looking at a snapshot, it could be all over the place so racing 'cause a naught the flu coming off her racing guards, very turbulent is his popping around all over the place a bit like that. Stream that you might be seeing the car in front of you. The teams have to time average it for competition reasons, we don't have to. We don't have restrictions on us who are doing a lot more study of the the unsteady flow around the call. That's something that's leading to different results than we would have done in the past. We all doing some wind tunnel work. We're doing it in a very big win tunnel. We are not actually running to cause in the wind tunnels, we the scale up fifty percent. But what we are doing is rather than just measuring the forces on the car with studying the wake behind the car, much, more importantly and metrics for is our design moving forward is not the downfall super producing on the car, which is all the teams are interested in that down four Sunday shape of the dynamic maps, what we're interested in is the goodness wake the the total pressure. We're seeing in the way can level of turbulence that. We're seeing in the wake those are the metrics. We're really looking at. And it does sound the, you know, the wealth of icy you've got that you're able to pats a little bit more with the consequences that you can get all you're able to experiment with. Well, this is the kind of car which rights seat again. I can't compare to the WG stuff. He didn't have you is understanding there's no experimentation with any other causes. Just this is what we learn from these cars, and this is what we will do take away that we try. I mean firstly I have got a great team working full me with me on this some very experienced Formula, one aerodynamicists working very high level. So that they well aware not just of what we need to do. But perhaps unlike me back in a row orient Patty, back in two thousand six well aware of what the teams will do when they get hold of it. And so we were continually trying to break it, not not just develop. Once we develop something good. We have a look at our. We can pray. And then in addition. Yes, we we're getting a lot of cooperation from the teams getting a lot of data from the teams teams roofing, even giving us on car measured data from when they're following other cars and things like that. So a level of understanding is. As I say orders of magnitude deeper than than it was when we did this. Seventy years ago. Sounds like it's a fascinating projects, and hopefully will be the benefit of everybody watching form of the one in the in the long term. I truly believe it will. And yeah, we sent me working hard. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only on certain thirty year fixed rate loans, offer cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. License in all fifty states number thirty thirty conditions or exclusions may apply. Interesting stuff from Simmons such what's very clear from this. These rules for nineteen railyard. I initiative f on itself is much more focused on the twenty twenty one regulation changes. How do you think we should view? What we what we can see from these. Because he's he's too excited about the changes. What actually is what we sing twenty eight. Well, it's going to be a baby step, isn't it? It's a step in the right direction. We spoke with potty about this Dhabi. And he said, you know is quite of technical directory way. He said it would be directionally. Correct. The the loss. Wave rose were directionally. Incorrect the ones twenty seventeen what he means by that is the Fulmer took a bit of a step back with improving the track products with improving the ability of cost to fall each other in a way lay become completely obsessed. Seventeen Hauge to making the cause for half to five seconds a lot first competitiveness previously. They hit. That's all perfectly. The average quickest lot was full point four by. That's a hug it. That's all it was completely wrong. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Just it's been a lot more difficult now taking has been a premium which for some pure. Maybe that's a good thing. I think you know, quality over quantity. But again, it's just improved the reliance on Deoras wealth overtakes and makes a bit difficult arrest. We should also mention because Dale aperture is not bigger, isn't it? The effect twenty five to thirty percent will and again, whether we think that's the right direction from foam in one or not. Again is proved that it works. It creates ease overtakes. But there is not fishy LT that people don't like if there was a way to guarantee moreover, taking on track without having to do something like that. Then sure I think we'll go to it. But unfortunately, at that Neffa entirely exists at this point in time when you'd hope the native the will be tackled of notes have the deal. I saw we'll be tackled in twenty twenty one regulations because he's always been abandoned during this two ways, you can look at it on the one hand, it is it is not great things. Really? Like the way official a thing. Any splitting comes dropped is out. Officials say it's Belichick with that. But it was abandoned eight to correct the problem that you lose chunky, downfalls when following someone and how successfully Intel depends on the vizo the configuration of the tracks such we've so we caught a few races joy passes a few times, we have had it creating really good contested breakings, which is what Ray. Eighty well. But it's so from that besides I think it's a reasonable solution in the short term, but we should also say it's been around now for quite quite some sewing have hoped that his twenty seven it was first introduced that. So you'd hugged the F one whatever found out found a way of these wrecks to render a mess Asari. But I think the the thing we she'll say it's just because the drag reduction is increased by the right choice doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be even easier because obviously the tuna below element of the are is the length of the the rest signs, and they're all some tracks were the signs by the nature of tracker a little bit short of new might one Mellon, for example, classic example of it. So the positive separatation this will make the mulch Unical, and that's what you can be more precise with their hands. It can what better the negative. You is it's mall DRC for one of. It's an it's not not great. But I think overall if you look the FAA driving this I think is positive they've released on something. Because at the very worst. It's going to stop the problem getting worse in the next two years. Yep. -solutely what they've stumbled across as passing lady. They didn't realize when they were coming up with the two thousand nine regulations out wash was going to be this massive thing and insecure they will in the front wings with. Then that Christ pets him as tools about is all these interact 'cause it's never as simple as just as just the the complexity is not a uniform athletes will delay the full two seasons, Arauz and everything. Yeah. Exactly. But the thing is because Simmons suggests he was involved with the taking weapon group at the time, and they came up with regulations he was responsible for Reynaud potty, low was very much responsible for McLaren Dave turned up in two thousand nine testing within what front wings, and it still something that they ever considered. Everyone ends up with these out wash generating front wings, create these massive clouds of turbulent ad is incredibly difficult predict and people want really show what to do with it. And it's it's create seems to create some kind of affect least the makes overtaking more difficult makes following more difficult and trying to this is part of the Russian upon rules. Now trying to simplify that front wing because turbulences so hard to predict you you've got hundreds of different mathematical calculations in CF day hundred web, not hundreds but quite a few different turbulence models. If you like the govern certain things, will you expect the simulation of tends to be without came to boring technical abouts, it people still aren't really sure which one to use for the the rap occasion Ness, still one hundred percent, correct. So. When it comes to the real world is very hard to predict so trying to take out of that those hands little bit and simplify things it can only be a good thing really in the long run. But as I said at the very start you a baby step. It's something that we'll have some yield don't down the line. But right now again, it's just gonna is gonna help a little bit. But right now, it's a yeah. It's a babysat pretty things. Talk about that with the complexity of the front railway because it's it's not simply think about all the fats is that they influence as steering angle. Loading the car whether Dolly is right on all of these things that Cohn c- changing conditions. The temperature all of these things have a big impact on ends. I think they've won easy solutions for these diesels of things, but fundamentally is very complicates. And not always the case with with open wheelers. It's one of the reasons going that when we had when we had virgin doing the all say FDA car in twenty ten which was Nick Wirth, no see success with the cure projects with worth research course, close wheel sports car much much much simpler today than an open wheel car, which is just so so come case. And that's one of the one of the reasons why you do want me out will affect so much. If not in wash just Radi simple. I'm just want to eliminate the drag Yoko the wheels. Let alone the the other problems caused by. So the complexity the scale of complexity is something I think it's really easy for the non specialist too. So look, yes. And this is. Fats while you know, the rotation of tire does the tied to form does the tie crate blisters that hang in somehow influencing athlete that way. And there's also in some ways at articles were acting with the friction of the tires and we've got different compounds. So I mean, it's a tiny factor probably over blowing a little bit. But there are of these axes, and it's so hard to predict. But obviously deaf one they've had these tools that disposal. So hopefully, what they will found is certainly a step in the right direction, and we're not going to see the effects of that until baby testing probably not even Mel them. But some well barring when not gonna see the full effect of. So I think that you're still gonna be on it a little bit. But yeah, we'll have to see what's here from Jordan Stewart jugular. F one cent nickel director, Gary Anderson for his further on the regulations are significant changes for twenty nine hundred. How big an impact you? This is actually going to have on the on. The problems is trying to solve the produce rights service is the of whenever one cars following another. Basically lose a bunch of downforce. Either estimated run twenty percent of the forces lost. It loses the bottom Senate because the front wing gets influence. I car on the stage more because at the car slights more on the tires overheat. So you know, if you spend two or three four quarters the car, then you start losing as well that when you look at that twenty percent of the year lose that's inaccessible of what the cars from the front of the to the Ballard. The difference in done force pa- just buy those cars. So you suddenly got car that some capable of winning Rhys trying to pasta later say spot inbound both Louis home of Laden arrests about sets there on the minute. Is there is then Dr. Williams. So we asked the question. Why would it why would he get past that Mercedes in a Williams because it wouldn't happen? If you just swap those two cars. I to defy the fact that after three or four corners loses more tigr. So the deficit becomes even more. So the change in our regulations is basically to try and not disturb their foe so much by the leading car. So the car following us more done for in twenty percent Manley's nineteen nothing put achievable, but it's still not good enough by any means suggest the characteristics of oil car or a cross sex mislaid going through air, though will disturb it, you know, you can see in the truck you can say the motives another car in front of you. You can pull up the side of Trump. He knew what happens is, you know, the feel it in your car driving low motorway, so any project tug on through airflow will always entrance. I after to some extent, but what we have Niwa say's front wing employees, the call the wash it IT makes a car wider than the car. Elliot's. So your turn their flat run the side of the front tires the bars boys himself during the same thing. Turn their flight, which are. On the side of the rear tyres to help on the floor. So the the air to nominee entrance on the on the on the air egos through why is better than the cars. See your car narrower? Artificially by stope, this this whitewash I've ever you still same car that was him back tires the rear wing is is creating the wake behind the turning their flu often the air low pressure wake following the carbon enemies we are tires on behind the the wing which in turn means that the the air pressure around that following car is is lower pressure than the the leading car sales. So that's part of the done for losses really will change out. So it's a token gesture towards a problem. I don't I don't see it going away. The the fight the following car for me. Now, the air to Nommik surfaces or the good cars at least their surface Onuma working to ninety nine point nine nine percent of the potential the minute. You get a little bit of airflow change airflow turbulence the surfaces fulltime. So to me the leading cars the best car. Have a bigger problem. The worst cars just from the fact that they don't have such robust air w surfaces. So the changes on the on regulations to stop wash will have a very very small change on the the weak and the leading car such but the changes on the front wing taking away some of fisticuffs for the following car will not keep you better. So that will be more robust surfaces bay relying less on for text generation and. And. Manipulation of airflow around the tires. So I think the following car will be a little bit better than as currently the wait for the leading car will still be his bod- says it'll be a change in the right direction. But it'll be tiny. Will you see visibly? Pray tougher. Clearly, the research has gone into this one is done. It recession says the same by Pat Simmons as star action the F I under Bassus looked into it. And then come up with these the kind of the first rationally Israel's subsequently been been tidied up. So I think it's the relation teams eight of the ten responded to their question. Okay. So, and I all great that actually the basic the basic premise, the China mitigate out wash and the slice of vacation. They think it's the right direction. So as positive that at least is it's the right? So why isn't it? This is at the very small preview of what we can expect in for the twenty twenty one rules, would you to be? Got to be pretty substantial in terms of what I made so positive in. That regard rather just waiting for another few years. They forward a few easy to bring forward things for for nineteenth. Or at least mitigate the problem. Even if his light, I think cracked, I mean, you got to remember as there's going to be a size engineers abilities teams trying to explore those regulations to the maximum that blow things I don't quite understand. Why the front wings get mid wider was less wash component trail from Wang itself as these turning vans on tall turning there for a runner from tire. But because the front wing is getting wider. It will still be putting their for around the front tire. Even with haven't have the bets making up little happen automatically. So the was changed will be a little bit better. It won't be so aggressive, but one of them is in the front wheels of these cars through every quarter through the steering lovely apply. Changes cars, car trysts dramatically, and that's what McLaren or soon. Turn to nicotine there. Their car the didn't monitor the floor under front tires while enough. But that that's going to change again will be different as far as cars are concerned. But will it be different the descent chains for me is is is gonna be tiny, especially whatever they exploited it to the maximum guesses finds areas where the count apply little subtle parks to to do something. So initial research, I think if you look back at the two thousand nine overtaken, work grit research, which is a pretty basic thing. I have to say the time. It was it was it was terrible. It was it was non existent on the findings were done from car. That was newer near the complexity of the recent cars racing up on time. I just hope cast the debts. Correct. Espec- for twenty for twenty twenty one not necessarily twenty nineteen twenty nineteen isn't entrance step. This coast teams a huge amount of money. That's the problem was hasn't. This is a small staff, but the there's probably team twenty twenty five million pound bell and not little change of rear wing height from Wang website, barge board area change, you know, it's a massive massive Belva teams. That is sustaining stone is supposed to try get sober for twenty twenty one. Komo's of if it doesn't improve the racing. What's next because then everybody Gomo you just going to stay the same goes twenty twenty one to do. So that hostage something will do something. But are you? Hi quantified that because this year we've had some fun tastic races. Some bodies spoo- you count sort of county you can go to restrain air. Well, this'll be a this'll be a terrible risk for this will be very good race. So it's just lock the foles. The the biggest thing emphasis high the tires changed. React decorated love stuff how essential these rules to disrupt the competitive older because as fatty China's the athletes start who says impacts on that. So I don't know Pechiney that for once stale March on another will ever change of how effectively they've got on top of these new wrecks across the ten teams get a choice. The last thing it was for a team to get step of the others because we want close competitor, isn't that if that was a cyber awakens tore also stepped up suddenly got some super trek was sent him pool in Melbourne. If allows pretty excite the Hello that last. So that the thing efforts converted into the same end the day or the same direction. We look at the cars nowadays say that Mercedes in the Ferrari to reason different cars and other run them there. The reason we differed, but the end result was still was ending point one sentence other. So you always always convergent some direction everybody would always exploited their their own pockets far as possible. So even if there is some of the guest a ladle it allows for very limited time to catch up again. But don't think from twenty nineteen beg enough spec. Enough changes to sort of throw in. Of the real true performance and the victims to be honest as with the non part of the money, the research the teams out of the big teams teams of do most while some some strong as ever from carry that, it's clearly doesn't think the rules will have much impact. So what's the final vets said a minute ago? The jury is still out, but I think what's important is to set the correct expectations suicide about what what we will say that. Will take a fee rises? Melbourne will be not a Nassir great race for wheel-to-wheel reasons. Most likely it could be an event for rice for people make mistakes by that in the past. I think we're going to say if we do see later say rather while that would be fronting the roles. So how would you lay out your expectations? I think what we're going to see is we're gonna see an effects whether it be an effect Lewis altogether, visible or consistent effect across the full gamut of circuits. We don't really know the state as you say mobile the good races been there have been a result of circumstance, and we could get into a whole accidential debate into what makes good race. Whether it's close wheel-to-wheel racing. Whether it's because various 'cause hit some kind of catastrophe and the results little bit weird variables Mike. Good racing. He's, but yeah, I think. If if the F F one the FAA a right with simulations than that should be closer racing. What I worry about is those simulations based on two cars very much the same. And you know, these engineers and each teams are pushing technology to the limits that tried to recover as much downforce as they've lost. They're going to be trying to dart death low in such a way that now that they know the out washes salient factor in making calls difficult to try and recover out because they didn't want 'cause following close to each other. So I think yeah. Twenty one in twenty twenty I think expect- expectations have to be quite limited twenty twenty one is the big one. That's when we expect everything to change. I appreciate I'm sitting on the fence. But here at. Cypher on the edge of this over. To the cipher excitements to see what happens. Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with. What we should. We should also talk about not just the impact in terms of the rules. Delivering what incentive but also this relative to. That's almost the most interesting thing we saw in two thousand dollars vast sea change in competitive order, and everyone always does little to choose about. You talk about the front hours. They're a multitude of things in that season. The double cheese are being perhaps the most significant of them because that was based on a very interesting interpretation of of of the wording of the regulations. Should we side? I think we can have any fees or anything this year. But I'm thinking teams will have had so. Not quite throw away. Their starting point will be kind of reducing their existing front wing design and making it kind of into basic new lost downforce. But does this other potential? Suddenly, you're going a second a lap slow relatives the opposition you were before Kennedy, disrupt the competitive order, it can if the teams haven't recovered that downfalls. We know the East Bay twenty grain in Dahbi, he said the force India or racing point is is now we're in a situation where they'd lost a lot of downfalls with the application these new rules, and they were having khloe back, and it seems that everyone's been the same boat here that has been a lot of a lot on the table to recover and how the teams perform is relative to how they recover that. If they're able to put a coffee program whether to come able to come up with ways of recuperating that downforce that's going to be crucial. Success? If there's a top seem the has got it wrong with the design and hasn't been able to do that. Then they're going to be able they're going to have a dreadful preseason testing. And we're gonna be talking about a very strange order, but such is the state foreign one where the biggest teams of the biggest resources if things go wrong, they can just put their money in Africa into something else because they say many personnel so much staff. I think that might be a change further down the order where the teams quite compacted up, but the front I don't really see much change in the yard. We're not gonna burn like situation or anything like that. It's gonna be Mercedes for rebel. And then maybe Renner and all whoever makes the best of the rules. Really? That's grew that one of the big reasons with is just simply that the rule changes on that big. And the change the are being made fairly prescriptive. So that the basics of your front wing pretty well, set a majorly. So there's not vast amounts. You can they serve. They so everyone's going to be shuffling broadly in the right, Dr in the right direction all the same direction from the offset at I'll be surprised if anyone has a sauce too. But you never know one of the things that Gary Anderson vice talks about is the nobody understands one hundred percent of what makes that cargo, and you can have really successful car. The my have some inherent fluorine. But that is just not relevant. It's covered up by some other aspects by other aspects of the car, not necessarily in pay space, just a weakness that doesn't matter and these little adjustments. Sometimes they can expose something that you just had no idea was a weakness. That's always the the interesting thing. But yeah, I won't be holding my breath riffing spectacular. Now if. Is yet. Again, I'm looking forward to seeing what is new rules day. I'm looking forward to seeing them. As a bigger picture is a step towards twenty twenty one where again things are expected to be all changed Formula one as we might be very very different the scope of the twenty twenty one changes could be huge that that's a real desire for it's a proper step change. Not just shuffle. Yeah, salute. So it'd be interesting see the workings towards that. And from my perspective in my re-met of my job of Islam, hoping the United plenty of changes from season plenty sock about and plenty speculate about with regards to those twenty twenty one roles as well. So yeah, I'm on some quietly optimistic, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens in two thousand nineteen who's able to make the best of it. And kind of crazy ideas, these seams come up with to recoup downforce, whatever happens is going to be fascinating. Also spoke will be there to bring you all the coverage of testing. Thanks very much, Drake box leg. Please. Are also dot com. For the latest news from one on the world of motorsport trial, plus subscriber airy Weffer small fee can read the world's best motorsport journalists. Checkout sister titles, motorsport dot com f on racing magazine out monthly and motorsport news. And if you're flutter download the pit stop betting app. Those you. Let your imprint also magazine is out every Thursday. Thanks for joining us. We'll be back soon with another also spoke podcast. Music is six AM treeline written by Marcus Simmons. See soundcloud dot com forward slash treeline music.

Pat Simmons Gary Anderson FAA Senate FAA Dr. Williams Ray wingham Mercedes Israel front running Lexus Misora Pat Symonds Whitman US Arizona Toyota Africa Cobb
EP442: 90 Day Fiance, Bathing Rituals, & One-Sided Sex

The Brain Candy Podcast

57:50 min | 6 months ago

EP442: 90 Day Fiance, Bathing Rituals, & One-Sided Sex

"This Omega in. With our own song I like isn't that our own song yet? Because now I'm like wait a sec that sounds like a theme song to a dating show like. Just how good are themes on? It s right Sarah Welcome everybody episode four, four, two hello hello. Sarah seems like one Jillian I really good and here's why. Have learned some new information. Okay. You guys and suzy have been along for the ride is. Our apartment complex. Novella yet. Telenovela well, we have an update I can't way so. There was like that angry letter that was left. That was I posted as the. Revolt developing yes. Revolt developing it. There was a there was something in the air. We feel that people were were everybody was unhappy every single time a went to go down to check the pool key out. Oh, here this one out this one I couldn't even believe when Ren shared the story with me I was like, are you freaking kidding me right now? So the the policy in the building. Is. They rent spot. There's like different spots I think four slots available time slots available to rent chairs at out at the pool, and there are ten spots available. So you have to go and you go fifteen or half an hour before fifteen minutes before the you know your time and you give them your ID, and then they give you a key was they're dropping off his idea and collecting a key and there was another woman who's doing the same. They took a look at our D. N. ago This is expired. Do you have man? and. She. was like an ran I. Think ran even said Oh you've gotta be kidding me and she was like. She I'd like give them a reason. I just about lost it. When I heard that I was like, are you kidding me the me tell you what this is not something where you need to show i. d you live in the bill did what he could come on your names on the lease. I was just so mad about that already. So it was things like that were happening all over the place. And we had submitted requests for stuff to get fixed. We have a light that's out above our door. So it's super hardly see where to put the key in and that's dangerous and not safe and all this stuff and A. And you know the stories about the in. Hallway I so. Yesterday out of the blue. There's a folder that shows up on our porch, our front door And it says. Comments on the front running. Okay. Whatever open it up and there's a letter in there that says. Hi. Were your new property management company Oh yes. So all of this was happening there isn't nobody told us about this nobody was like, Hey, we're doing a changeover. There's going to be like Bobo bus going on not a single person who was like we knew everybody in the office and you know enough and everybody's gone it like in one day everybody disappeared and it's just like, oh, so that's why. It's. Right, they didn't care at all or they were so bad like they didn't care and they knew they were not going to be are you know the Property Management Cup because I'm sure this was an overnight decision But so that gets dropped off yesterday. And this is the part like are you kidding me in the welcome packet and all it says, it doesn't address any of the issues or concerns that everybody's complained about it's like, Hey, we have a new APP, but then you can try that doesn't work anymore it doesn't work so that stupid and. And then inside the folder is also a beer cousy with their local. Which I was like are only one which. I always think is so stupid when people give you one who's drink like district? Drinking, drinking. And you're right it one of two things having your the drinking loan but want the right temperature or your with a friend and either a you're being selfish jerk and yours is called there's is not or you give it to your friend and then yours. Like yeah. So I don't like that always those things should come in a pair I anything. In the in the interest of the Environment Stop stop making merged like Iran ones once nobody wants it because I was like, what do I do? This is definitely crash. If. We could hang out at the pool. Yeah. Maybe I would care about it but we can't. So then this morning. Another letter shows up which I can only imagine is written by the same person who did the signed in the elevator, and so it says like Hello Stella Friends and neighbors I'm a concerned citizen and seventeen year old resident and reaching out because their strength in numbers and I'm sure I'm not the only person who's like paying thirty percent of my income to live in a poorly managed building staffed by route dismissive borderline management that they put in charge of bub-bubba. So and it gives a whole list of the complaints. Thing it's great and so she has a meeting and she was like submit. Requests and submit everything to me and she says, I, collect tape mail. So make good. I'm like, Oh, I like this woman and she market she advertiser herself as a disrupt housewife slash mom and a disruptive media writer right and I was like. Oh, my God. Yeah. So she works in this like in the media industry and she's like And so I am definitely emailing her and I kissed you. All right all these young activists cropping up every yeah I mean Greg. And then your apartment building. I mean she is a seventeen year resident, not seventeen year old resident So we're going to say she's young at heart. But that was hilarious and most Lara's because I also had to read it twice when I when I picked it up. So I was seventeen year resin anthony either way I'm on believing in that building for seventeen. Years. In the Marina Delray area gotcha okay gotcha. Yeah. So she's like I'm familiar with how how it's supposed to be. This is she is not putting up with this shit. No ma'am? No no ma'am. Collective bargaining time, it's time to unionize I'm super into it and so. Oh Oh. My Gosh. I was like the flying nun but that's Forrest gump. Yes Oh turn name Weser. Norma Rae yes. Yeah. Yeah Woo. Okay. Well, good luck. I hope things. Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh. So yes so that's been fun. To hear that, and that's like you know because it is like a Telenovela it's like Ooh, date I had I don't order of business I wanted to Oh yes. Yes. Yes. Forgot God. So member how we talked about that guy who his dick and then wanted to kill himself but didn't because he passed out. Okay. Familiar and you owe Bo what well, she never barks. Maybe, somebody must be union maybe someone strive. That's hilarious. They've started protesting in the building. Yeah. I can't even believe you hear hurt that because she's not even the same roach. Okay she's a Burger Doug, guard. Okay. So you and I had sort of a silly. I. Don't know joke going on where you wanted to speak about this story with you know reverence and respect, and I was like Yes needling you. To not do that. And I, of course, referred to him as a loser. And I, of course, received email from someone who was very upset that I would talk about a man who she called mentally ill And Call. Call him a loser. So I would like to address this issue number one in the the information we have. We we don't know that he's mentally ill sure. Correct lows people that shop there dick off probably have some issues there. But I don't know that. I think it did say he was schizophrenic. Don't we? Wait was this year's story you're mine. Mine Okay maybe you knew that did I know that? Yes I don't know I'll have to listen to the episode again. Okay. Okay. If I didn't then I left out vital information. I mean, you did refer to him as a person with mental illness but anyway. can you be a loser and mentally ill I? Mean Defy loser. Right I don't know I. I think maybe you can be both. This is a good argument is a fair argument. I don't know I a loser in what context. lost. Abair you go. See. We're just there's a negative connotation to the to word loser that that person is attack. Tacked on but you know you could be like the loser in a basketball game loser in. But he's the loser of a penis. But I, I mean to be clear I do a lot of that to make Sarah uncomfortable because I find it. Funny. I have to squirm and be argue my reasons for why he's not which I did. So basically, her letter is me which and we already have that. So thank you but I don't try to take my job but like I get it. If that offends you totally that's not, it's not a joke for everybody. Bright I found it funny. I still do and. So. It's like my trader Joe's thing. I still think trader Joe's does is adorable I just feel like. That I I must have a dark sense of humor and it's not for everybody and I get it but if you chop your Dick off as an amused Bush to your suicide. I'm going to comment on us. Oh my God that is the funniest center. So that's Hilarious I I'm glad that was sorry that she felt personally offended by it and that's not my intention I'm trying to make Sarah Laugh and make maker uncomfortable. About us well, this is kind of a nice segue because it's in line with something I wanted to talk to you about. and. It's like my newest Obsession Ninety Day Fiance Oh okay I mean people are obsessed with this show I get it and boy is the gift that keeps on giving Tau. A million different. Okay. So We will start with because there's a bunch of spinoff shows. So the original like Oh gee, straight up format is. People from America are in online relationships or not even necessarily online long distance relationships with the person who lives in another country and there's A. I don't know there's a law or like there's I can't remember what the what. The name of it is, but there's some sort of rule that says you have to spend like you have ninety days. After something about like with when they get engaged to. Get married. It, like if you stay in the United States or you have to go home Oh guy apply for a certain kind of visa. Visa. So this is it's documenting people who who are already long enough into the relationship to where they've decided to get married and they're they're engaged. They're engaged. Can they're now? They're spout their? Partner their fiance is coming from a bead. Coming from abroad doing a terrible job explaining that. I have to keep all of them straight because like like I. said, there's a lot of spinoff shows. So this. Trying to keep keep straight the setup. For this one. So yes, they're coming from abroad and so now it's like you know what we love like fish out of water story. Also, the you know you have the skeptical family whose life. Is this person just here for a green card you have you know and the people all story of like, what's the Monin? How long have they known each other? Like me like just online somewhere. It it's. I think some most of the ones I've seen they've met online with the with the exception of. A few who met on vacations where they go. Study abroad or one guy I'm pretty sure that he went there for his mission trip because he's Mormon and he went down to Ecuador somewhere like that and fell in love with a woman down there. Okay and that so okay. So then we have ninety day regular Oji version that is that situate. Yeah. Then we have the spin off shows, which are what I've been watching, which is ninety day the other way which is where the people from America are going to live abroad. WHOA that's the fish out of water store. We love then the other one. That's fantastic. Is Ninety Day before the ninety day, which is before they've decided to get engaged and they're meeting like they're they're meeting for the first time. It's that story and I mean Oh my God their stories that you wouldn't even Abu- leave like there's one guy who is meeting a woman who said a long distance relationship with the woman from I WanNa say Slovakia or somewhere in. The. Area Eastern Europe. Eastern European woman and he has seen nothing but photos of her he's had video his seen her on video but can't hear any audio. It's her. Reacting. And it's been seven years, they've been talking online. He's in the sixties and she's twenty, seven or twenty eight. So I think they started talking when she was twenty one blonde like you know he's a very peculiar guy. And so you go through I think he gets introduced into episode three or four. And it's his quest to meet up with her because he's had to meet. He's had scheduled meetings with her in the past and she's not shown up. All of his friends are like this is not, yes he even has. He even has a friend who lives in eastern Europe who's a woman that he like was set up with on like one of these mail order bride sites and he didn't click with her but they became friends which. That's word and. Because like I can't imagine that that'd be a weird friendship and they she meets him at the airport and even she is like, let me tell you this is like not going to be this is not a real thing. Well Guess What happens episode eleven? He's frigging bill. She's realized like the last thing I have not even watched that episode yet but I had to look up spoilers because I'm on episode nine I'm like, Oh, my God I have to know everybody's like Oh you spoiled it I don't care. It was both for me too. I'm still gonNA wind still going to be great. So we're on this ride together. Let's go. Defending everyone today. Okay. Right. They're going to be like what you but no I'm telling you. It's worth it to just watch it because like it's and then a bunch of weird stuff like. Supposedly he acts really weird and he liked hugs her and makes a noise. So I know. Damn well is it the case that most of these losers are? This are they like odd most of them were yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, have you heard or seen online the tweets about big ed the guy who has heard about this? Thing. Yeah. So he he is peculiar and he has a romance with a woman from the Philippines who is twenty six years old. It's so obvious. She can't stand him and for good reason to because he says some weird. When he first met her, he made her get and requested that she get an S. t. d. test but then she was like, okay well, then you get one too and he was like all I'm not going to get one in the. Like right so she's like, do you see the problem with that and you know and there's communication difficulties. So a lot of this communication is happening via translator APP, which is. God Yes so and then you have everybody speaking their native language to the camera and then just the the. The actual translation so he has no idea what she's saying and she's like this I don't know about this. Then he told her that he was five to but really he's four eleven, four eleven he's still. He's not he does have a condition where the like Danny. He's missing a certain number of vertebrae in his neck or like spy like things in his neck, which is why he doesn't have an. Odyssey, and if you're wondering how he got the nickname big ED, he gave it to himself and he says that which is. Know. Yeah. Right. And he goes. You know because like I'm not big. Yeah. We got some people to give themselves a nickname Johnny Bananas, and Oh my. Title I. Really are and then he then they have a night together and he's like so saddened by the fact that she doesn't have pajamas because like also a lot of people don't wear pretend like, yeah who cares and so he like but went on Barbara Jama's but the way he he's GonNa talk about. This, poor like all God. and. then. Spent the night with her and then he doesn't like the sheet he he wants to romance her and treat her like the queen she is, and he always says like you're my queen and then she says, you're my king and I hate that because. Alex gross when they do it but like I, do that's insane you. Don't do that. It's like you we do it but like but we like say a different like do you Like watching things like this will like I, don't know make you lose sleep. I'm man sometimes it does. But then you have a solution called yet side. All my God says sometimes I have to. I have to make sure that I'm ready to go to bed when I drink this. That's a good point. Because I can't just casually drink watching a movie unless I don't want to hear the ending. Right well, these little drinks that you can take before bedtime are so great because they're all natural. They are stuff that's found in your body anyway magnesium Melatonin. That kind of stuff and it triggers your body and mind into feeling sleepy and getting ready for bed. It's so great. They have Berry Flavor or the zero sugar version, and you just take it and it'll help you fall asleep naturally, which is nice because you know me I'm usually like hopped up on edibles or whatever the heck I mean a lot of people especially now. I think are really struggling with stress and sleep. Yes. Chess which can make you think crazy thoughts and have high stress levels and who needs that right? Yep. No Right. So if you're one of the millions of adults having problems sleeping, you should try some sleep right now tom sleep is giving our listeners fifteen percents off just by using Code Brain Candy at checkout just go to get SOM- dot Com at G. E. T., S. O. M. dot com get SOM- dot Com user code brain candy check out for fifteen percent off your order Tw- twelve or twenty four packs. No artificial flavors. Okay. Dullish. Yeah. And you know what? I bet this Gal I would have really liked some of these to help put her to sleep. So she didn't have to listen to this guy's voice because he's trying to romance her and he goes Oh but I'm gonNA give you a foot massage. So he gives her foot massage then afterwards like maybe I don't know how long it goes by but he goes so. How about you know like? You Shave your legs. He told her that yes. Because she had didn't shave your legs because because. SHAVER. Right and Me Tell me does he have redeeming qualities is he Richard? What's Not really what is in? Green because he's rich, he's rich. Like relative to her. Because that's one of the one thing that happens is he goes to her house and she introduces him to her dad and her family and one of the things that was most interesting especially about and it was really when Americans went only when Americans went over to other countries to meet people that maybe they'd only had a relationship with online or they never seen the or they met this person on a vacation in in a destination. Location and then or like a tourist location, and then they go to the outskirts of the city or they go where these people like really live and it's I mean what you'd From. A regular family in any other country really one of the thing that I found most interesting was the bathing rituals were. If you've traveled abroad a united in being on challenges and in just kind of sometimes you have to just adapt you kind of do whatever is. The the thing here you are in you know like toilets when we went to Thailand or those holes in the ground, and that's how it is which actually study show a much better rate way to go But You know it. So that was so fascinating because one of the things in the Philippines is they come all together as a family I mean, they're not necessarily naked. They're wearing like close but they have one big pot of clean water. And you don't want to be getting dirty all the time and you know. Contaminating the water. So everybody kind of does everything at the same time and uses all the same water right and that's just how do and it's like people are like mortified like Oh, my God like like feel it's the sympathy the in their voice. Yes, it's not the pity I hated that that was the thing that I noticed so much about like Oh. Oh, my God pitying a different way to do things. Your bullshit that you just spent four hundred dollars on Goddamn belt. They pity you for the. Point Sarah Fuck, them fuck them. So there's a whole bunch of that that I didn't like and it was like the the judge of they didn't even have walls and. Place. Get Out of here. You know kicked out and see the losers they I would not call them. Right, and those people who are losers would call them. So they're losers loser. You are funny today I love you. Yeah. So that would you? Watch this or do you think of? No I think you would like it and it's a good one to. have in the background while you're doing anything like I enjoy having this on. You know when I'm like searching the Internet for funny stories and stuff like that to talk about on here and like wrens already gone to bed and. It's like it's like the thing that you can have on where they're. You know why? Because it's one of those reality shows where half the show is. Next time on or previously were there showing I'm like we saw before the commercial. and. Then when the commercials are gone, it just seems like how to catch up right. So it's like, okay, which is why it took seven. To get to this guy meeting the woman and I'm like, Oh, come on going online. So I couldn't believe how late into the season we had to look that up I'm like wh- does when does he meet her does even meet her I hope one right listen tell me which episodes I should watch. Ones I'm gonNA tell you. You could you need to watch season four and K of ninety day? The other ninety. Day. Before the ninety days. Okay. Okay. That is the one with. Big Ed which then every time I see him he looks like he has a big head. So then I just WanNa, call him big head. Which? Is like it's like he doesn't realize how that nickname Aguirre really and then let me see what season ninety day Paris other away guys because I have to. You have to see this one Right now. Right. Now like because I'm SA- were serious. Okay. Its season too. So season two. Fantastic. Ah Let me tell you some highlights from this one of the ninety day the other way. So this is when. The Americans meet. Somebody from another country and they're going to go live in the other country. Now, let's review some of the reasons for why somebody would want to. Go to from America to say a Favila in Brazil. Okay. It could be or like a to the outback in Australia. Sure. Almost like and especially because they can't work. There they're like they. So kind of puts you in tough situation. Yeah. A lot of times they find out throughout the season that whoever they loved has a criminal. So it's like what you hear about a one woman who's fall in love with this guy from Australia that she met on a trip or no South Africa she she met him in South Africa and he has a gambling addiction and he stole all his in. It's kind of like that like. Like. It feels kind of like still a party kind of south. African? Yeah you know what I'm like Oh and He. He has a gambling addiction and he relapsed while they were together and he stole everything from his mom's house. Press charges. He went to jail for burglary. Of his own mother's house, he's this all happened while rights and then like they're getting married and they get married like. And then Oh. My God you have see it's crazy. But then one of the one of the other stories that is. It's hard to call the my favorite but the most interesting I think This woman who is sixty five and she lives in palm. Springs and she's very like. Like she's fallen for everything like she's. Like. has maybe a little naive you know. If she was a puzzle piece she'd only be like a twelve piece puzzle. Yet like that. Maybe six yeah and yeah, and but so sweet and really just wants love and has like just these grandkids she loves and kids. Really She's simple and she falls in love with she has this online relationship with this man this beautiful looking Indian man who I can't remember what his name was will then her daughters are like I don't know I don't know it doesn't seem like it's for real and she's like pushing Amita mercy see him online he won't do it and then he comes out with the truth and he says we'll actually. ME. And he's been cat fishing her but he's an Indian man himself and he is handsome. He's just not real hand. He doesn't consider himself real handsome and the IS A. Call Center. You know phone ramp person representative, and the hours he works in the evenings and he works for an American company So he keeps these hours where Americans are awake and he's asleep and he's so he said he's so lonely that he went online and this is like the only way for him to have friends and him to talk somebody and he's actually like a real like means well, and a sweet guy. So he comes out with the truth and she's like I don't care. You're actually really cute and I like you so they but the problem is she's sixty five and he's like thirty. Two or something like that and in, and he is very much a part of the Indian traditional caste system like lives with his. Family. He goes she goes to visit and she visits for four months and they are in love and they're the only couple on there where I'm like, they're legitimate like they actually love each other like there's something real here. But his family is like no way we forbid it and she and he wants to marry her and move her here, but they will not allow it, and so he lies to his family and says that his job relocated him. or He got a new job and he really Li like in a different part of the country, and he really just leaves a few cities over and goes to live with her but then he doesn't tell her that in order to do this, he had to quit his job and so now they have no job and she's living in Indiana she can't get a work visa yet because they're not married and in order it's like a whole mess. TAP against them, but if they can't make it work can. Right and but here's what was like an unintended consequence. But like not a positive one for me, that kind of came from that. I had a situation where I don't know who I was calling what call center maybe pay pal or something or no Amazon. It was an Amazon one for a return that I needed to take care of that. Something happened with so and knowing that this man who would who like felt so lonely was the one working at the call center It totally may mean, yes and I even told, Wren Amazon, because I haven't told Wren I was like I am being so nice in this it was like one of those texting with somebody and I know it was a real person because I was saying like real I got real humanity responses. So was like I'm going to be so nice and I'm going to be like thank you so much for taking the time to do this and Blah Blah Blah Blah, he was like, would you like one of the product a return of your new product to be replaced for free like I got the best service? And I need to be way more frigging compassionate with people at the. because. They're this guy who so lonely he feels like he needs to catch fish somebody and what if she wasn't as Nice than he would definitely never find love. The whole thing that's nice and I think there's a lot of people that are feeling lonely right now and maybe they could use some better health. So that they can get some assistance from the comfort of their own home with licensed. Oh see well, and I'll tell you every single one of these people could use this. Right well. We. All every person. Can the true man I'm saying this is somebody who love. Well that's the thing I think a lot of people are intimidated by, but I think it's because they don't know what it's like but this is a great way to see what it's like and see why it's so beneficial to be able to talk to someone who is separate from your normal life who can guide you with ideas about anxiety and stress or relationships or family conflicts. It's a very stressful time right now of people being mostly at home. And this is a convenient professional affordable way to get reliable counseling and they do have financial aid available, which is really nice if you're on a budget and you can get a therapeutic match for you. I want you to start living a happier life today as a listener you'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting better health dot com slash brain candy join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Again, that's better help H. E. L. P. Dot. COM SLASH BRAIN CANDY I've heard from a lot of listeners who've tried it and I heard nothing but rape reviews, which makes me very happy that so great. He Way. Okay. So let's see any of my other updates that I wanted to make sure you knew about. or I thought were important things that I noticed How about this one? The other thing that stood out cultural differences, they just make me go and how people react to them. So one was the bathroom and and bathing practices how Americans reacted that yeah which one way yes you reminded me that I saw one of the people that I love that rights for the Atlantic is name is James Hamlyn. He's a doctor and he has a new book out that I can't wait to read and I think. It might be called clean. But basically, it's about how he's exploring whether we bathe too much shower too much as fatty and how laugh might be destroying like bio whatever it's called. Something like our gut bacteria and all that by feeding. God. But I'm excited to read it because we do have these ideas and I'm I've been laughing so hard because I don't know why recently on twitter I've been seeing a lot of black folks who are commenting about how white people don't bathe enough and yeah and you know what they. Don't use. I'm like I don't want to watch. Well, I do so that I can point to basic. Fascinated by learning about like why black culture has embraced like really really really cleaning themselves and I think it's so interesting and I wish I knew more about it. Remember when we read the book Queenie Yeah and her in the story I think her parents are from or parents are from Barbados. Or? I can't ruin her nowhere somewhere in the Caribbean but she was like that's a Caribbean thing where they like. are like. Did you clean behind your ears are so big on sure that you bay like properly and I really never knew it until recently like how I didn't know that black people used vaseline unlike their face. This is news to me like as sort of a moisturizer but like, yeah, all over and I I'm into it. I'd like grandma that's interesting. Yeah. But anyway, you're just reminding me about because every culture does have different. Taboos and guidelines for cleanliness. Yeah. Yes. Well, you know what? I would imagine that yeah that that kind of consistency is very similar. I used the that Egyptian magic cream what is almost like a beeswax? Oh yes. Like the consistency of vastly and almost. All over the place on my elbows on because it's like. More oil helps to control the balance, of oil yeah. Yeah. Hey. Good. Sorry. Yeah. So yes. Okay. But no I. Love this conversation. It's fantastic because I was also reading and you remind me of reminded me of an article that I read recently on how we're all going to the bathroom wrong and how sitting in toilets is not a good thing for us. 'cause it costs us or something. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're going to use a toilet, then getting one of those little stools to go in front and like this squatty potty or whenever those kinds of things are is helpful because we have a kink in our bowels again lower into a intestines and the only way to straighten it is to squadron I remember wind squatty Potty was on shark tank and they talked about. Oh, never mind. Gosh that's another episode I've been watching another shot that shows just great. That's all there is to it. It's the best to me is an example of reality TV that is at least seemingly pretty ethical. is they have like. Their dog. Yeah. Oh I didn't know that after the pitch and I think before the pitch to. Get in line for that. He's this people aren't they hired you. Okay. So yes. So the Bat, the the bathroom was the thing that I noticed and then the other thing was the. The what happened when women who were in long term or long distance relationships with men online met the men for the first time and they were from cultures where it was a male dominated society and they had sex for the first time all of them complained that. They didn't get. There's of course that the sex was one-sided and like so much. So that one woman went to A. Like an adult store and like got a bunch of sex toys and got him a book on like sex for Dummies because like didn't even know and I think she said that she taught him oral sex was a woman. And could you even imagine? Do you think that? A lot of times like selfish behavior in the bedroom is because they don't know what to do. In like Quincy's. Yeah. It's it's. More. Yeah. If it depends on how culturally like sex view and it really and for for women to. Goes, it goes it could be it could go either way because then you have cultures like you know. Like I think about tantric sex and you have like Sutra where that's not the case where it's like. All about breathing together and everybody's getting married and Oh because that woman from India. Oh, she did have that glow where she was like it was the best tonight ever. I'm sure it was girl. Really Sixty five. Yeah seems like a good man. Oh. She was very happy with him. He doesn't I hope it doesn't it. I hope it doesn't turn out that he did lie to her about like he did lie to her about a bunch. which is like not good like he didn't tell her he he quits. He didn't tell her that. Yeah. But like Oh and he's like I can see that his intent like they just need some help they need some counseling see I could make us off where you council all these people, Sarah Oh my God, what do they have? I think that's a good idea. That's actually a really good idea I wonder if I look at me I'm like. A good. IDEA. Yes. So that was my an exploration of the show ninety, which is one of those kind of like love is blind where like I resisted for a long time. Yeah. Right in. I saw this meme or some some tweet online the other day that was like. You WanNa know how time is moving in like slow motion but also fast forward. The premiere of love is blind was only four months ago. I just about lost it. I was like four. That's eight that feels like that was like. Another lifetime ago so much that feels like a million. You don't even know because he didn't watch that show show you're saying like it's very disorienting whether time is moving fast or slow and Yes in how you know I like when people tweet and they'll be like, wow, today was the longest week ever. That because it does. Feel. That's. It really is an ice wherever sent like I've love. Loved our trip to the mountains and I'm so excited to go again. But man has been hard to get back into like the the grind of. You know I need those two worlds like come together yes I agree. I think we're on the right track when you win in opinion philosophies. All, you know what you're right. That's my problem I need to get back to making Pina coladas. Well, am I think I've sort of gone into this mode because I had a period of mourning and great difficulty is everyone has. But then I transitioned into this like. Seeing it as an opportunity thing and who knows. It'll last I might be singing a different tune in next week. But where I just felt like I want to set goals and then those as I progress in them I will feel Akam, it gives you a sense of control you know. In the world is out of control. And do it in a healthy way not in like a destructive way which some people can do. and I feel like I'm GonNa groove now. So I'm happy about that. So good. But boy, it's been a journey and I'm sure everyone's had those some days are good. Some days are better. That's okay. That's right. Yep. It really is and you just have to either take like day at one day at a time or be future focused. Yeah. Going on. There's like some Banyan I don't hear it but I wish you mean like sex paying in her hammer bang how it sounds like somebody's like. Like. I got the Broadway stop. About me I, love when people make jokes about like how people upstairs have bowling balls and stuff. They're always moving furniture. Which I'm so glad that nobody lives not like I'm a stop plus we're we're kind of like a no shoe house. Yeah and so like we have house juice like little showers and it's because they match very similize real. Cute. Yes. It is very civilized house coats and how slippers over here it's. Like a new. Yet like a little house coat like a little sweater like it's. The kind that you just like throw like throw on. Yeah like a Cardigan. Both no buttons because like you just WanNa be able to throw it on real quick and like. Oh my gosh. If you're a curly haired Gal anything that goes over the head is like. You're basically kissing your hairdo goodbye I'm telling you what I know. This is supposed to be here, but I'm just going to go on a tangent. Oh Hey, that's okay because I did that to you lesson. And I cannot recommend the book twisted enough, which is about the history. It is phenomenal. I learned so much about black hair, but I also just learned like so much about race and gender and It was just I. She's a PhD and I was like this is how a scholar should right because Oh cool. It was contextual and historical, but it was accessible I just cannot enough about this I think her name is Emma to Berry. and. The book is called twisted and you gotta read it. because. Then what you're saying just about you know the the logistics of your hair. Is something I have no concept of? And I think you can really help you have empathy and understanding of people and their culture. If you better understand the importance of hair, 'cause she even out how a lot of what we. Understand is racism is has almost everything to do with hair because you know some white people are quite dark skinned but we identify them as white because of other cues like facial feature, haw hair texture. And how important it is how we are still requiring people with that texture hair to. In order to appear quote unquote professional or legitimate, and how you can even get fired for wearing your hair in a way that people think is not acceptable when it's just your hair. Yeah and. Heavy and it so well done and I love jets. So interesting and that is such an interesting point on like the hair and that is because Of course, if you saw an out by no person, it's Albano and black you would still know they were black because of their hair and facial features. And I've been asked many times and mostly not by people that are white but by people of color like what are you mixed with or like? And it's only because when I had my curly hair and it was when I had dark curly hair I have black curly haired they'd be like, no. But like what are what is this right and I'd be like now's like just. Won't show I. Come suspect wait for a minute. And like Wha- what's going on in the yeah. What's going on like? Yeah, and Kenny stand. And I'm like. In my mind I'm like the whitest white girl that there ever. So we are. But because we are early haired there, there's a little more of something in their mind maybe. and. It informs how we treat people. We might not even be aware of him. And don't touch people's hair for fuck sake for fucks Sake Oh. Yeah. The End. Yeah. Yeah. But Reed Oh. My God and I. Also, I feel the same about that to used to get mad when my ex would touch my hair I'd be like that's not. Really you don't like people. Will when it's currently because they were. I get it. I. Just never knew you felt that way I'm glad I know Oh my God, and then like would like it ruins. It ruined it just because it messes it up I'm like I can't even lean again. Yeah I'm don't. Okay. Wow. That's just me complaining. To know. Yeah, but I have I, don't have to deal with anything else any of the the other issues that come with that like so I'm just complaining about like this is just logistical putting on a sweatshirt. Inconvenience for me. Not Yes exactly. Yes I'm glad that you shared that. Okay. What else do I want talk to you about? Okay well, I mean in the time we have I have to just throw one of these stories in here I read an article. About, a man who now, first of all, we talked about a guy who had swallowed drugs and he withheld. Go into the bathroom for Forty Day S. And then like caused himself to have surgery and all this stuff and Blah Blah Blah Blah. We'll how about this one, this fifty, three year old man in Australia goes to the hospital because of severe abdominal pain and because he lost feeling in his leg and so they go through their like, what could it be and they take an x ray and find out that he has impacted. Bowel that is so severe. It's put pressure on one of his arteries and caused him to lose feelings. But I have so many questions. Yeah. Me Era. What tell me some of yours Oh my God I have to send you this picture I I saved it as a photo so that I could send it to you and be like you have to see what this looks like when you day of it. Oh. My God yeah. Okay. I did save it. Well. Here's the X ray of I really don't know how this kind of thing happens because if I don't go enough I am not happy and Yeah my God let me see. How Exactly, the reaction I want is a. Be M in there all all of the Oh, my God I got him. I got it makes me clench by cheeks just thinking about it. A mad. So the there was he had to do. They're basically everything that was backed up so much that he was. It was causing abdominal abdominal compartment syndrome, which is like increase pressure in the abdomen. So and the which causes which caused his intestine to descend and put pressure on his right L. EAC artery which I hope I'm saying that right not. And that pressure caused the painters like and the paralysis and idiot I first of all if you. Lost feeling in my leg my leg went if I it became paralyzed in the leg. I would not wait twenty four hours. It's not like Oh, I'm gonNA shake it off. If I can't move my leg. Yeah, we're going to the ER. Run on the line. Right. Make Way. This guy is clearly he's a last minute Kinda guy. Every says I was GONNA. Live Spenc- of his pants but. Really. Hates chained hates to move. bothered. Like or maybe guy on the go and he can't even like find time clearly not kidding find time to go go. Oh my God he can't. You cannot busy but it didn't say how long it didn't give information about how long he had had alonside. It said that the pain had been building up for three days that caused swelling and not think it would have to be longer whatnot extra. This might be the result. What if we found out sues that he was a professional eater What if this is, what's your guy's name chest Yada John Joey Chestnut. Now, what if this is joey chestnut like name they kept his name. said he from Australia? X Ray. It was just like hot dogs in their. Really. Funny. But it was super gross and so they had to go in there and surgically no, they performed what they called, manual? FECAL impaction. Under. General Anesthesia. Man You had. Diss impaction good that basically sticking a finger up the bomb and massaging it till the poo came out he should have just done that at home. Put something in there. Well, I feel like this guy wasn't exactly big online. Making good. Choices. Wasn't. At least approximately guess how much how much was removed? Oh God. Let's play this twenty pounds. I don't know how many how much it. POUNDS, but it was too leaders. Oh. Of via. And it's crazy. It took him thirteen days to be able to walk again Oh my word. Why? He was able to leave the ICU after four days but. It took him that long because it had impact like everything and moved around and it people things have to move back around learned a valuable lesson about fiber. I'm in May I. Hope. So just leg for Pete's sake when when I I was I, had a friend who told me once she said listen. It was right after she had a baby and I'm like. Oh what's tell me about it was a magical she's like, no, it was horrible and I'll tell you this is the she's like if you have this if you never hear another piece of advice in your life. Like this is it this is the one thing to remember. When you start to feel contractions or when you start to go into Labor whatever. Take a tablespoon of coconut oil. Just eat an entire thing like eat a thing coconut oil because the shit you take. The day after will tear you in half if you don't. Wait what Shit you take the the number to. The bathroom literally I thought you meant literally okay I see what you're saying this. You said that was the worst thing. It was so bad that it was like that's that's the one I was like, Nope, that I wish I would have known that. Having worth again. Faulk do like and after that sore sore in that area. please. A big enough meal that's already. A traumatic as it is. Good Lord also I didn't know coconut oil have that effect though. It's like, I, like Greece up the tracks I guess real. Well I mean that's what she said and that's what she said. Her friends recommended to her and then I've shared the story and people have been like, oh. Yeah. Definitely. Do. My goodness like they're like Oh. Yeah. I. Got that same adviser Somebody told me that too. So I'm I didn't leave that one. Right, and then also in this, this was just I didn't read the full article on this but you know how they they'll share similar stories of this isn't the first time. This has happened kind of thing there were like a constipation. Shoe this one was I I mean I didn't even want to click because I'm like, oh, this sounds like a sad story. There was a teenage girl who had a phobia of toilets and in two thousand fifteen she passed away from for from holding a Bowel Movement for eight weeks and up building up so much that her chest cavity became compressed and she died of a heart attacks stop. I know. But I feel like that's really sad like scary feels like there's trauma related to that and there's like I remember this episode of. Intervention. When this girl they said was scared of swallow. Yeah. Yeah. It was classified of course as an eating disorder but really it was because she had been sexually abused involved the oral stuff and so she didn't want us well. And I get that. But what a sad tale man isn't it. So I didn't even click on that one and I was like no GonNa stick to the guy. Right. Let it. Right. There's something else there. There's like. There's more to the story and she's like a teenager who knows that's that's interesting but. Not with this man, there's no excuses. You really he just needed. You really informed us about a lot of important stuff. And I will never tell I will never I won't embarrass her and say who the story is about but Renan I always talk about one year at Camp and we always refer to it as oh, the year so and so had was constipated for the whole time you know because. And it was so funny because he always remembers that year for the same reason because there was a counselor who? Did Not. Go to the bathroom the whole time and it became so bad that like we like like a medical issue she we need to take her to the doctor so that you know this is it became so painful for her and so we're like, oh, the that sounds so couldn't shit. And Because wait that's how you remember that year. That's how I remember tonight here. And there was like, wow, I, think everybody could you imagine if you were that person and that's the year that everybody? That's how we will refer. You who stories for longer than even the brain candy it's been around Oh this is true. I thought you were going to just say you've been boosters lately and. Already like, yeah. I already like armed defense as arguably like hey. We're just of all. and. I was like you bring them up to and I can't help what Amazon what Google. Like suggest this list if this things that we talk about Bubba. Now, I don't know that defend. Your Poo enthusiasts yes. Yes legacy. Well. please leave. From. Tom. Rand or whatever earth? Hour.

Australia America Amazon Sarah Joe tom sleep Sarah Oh Reed Oh Philippines John Joey Chestnut basketball suzy Ren Bobo front running Iran Lara Greg writer
The Black Vote

CNN's The Daily DC

13:37 min | 1 year ago

The Black Vote

"Next year. Someone is going to challenge. Donald Trump for the White House, the primary right home is a new podcast that helps you figure out who that candidate or candidates might be the primary ride home is a daily podcast dropping every day at five pm with the latest news from the campaign trail who's up who's down which issues are gaining traction. What is the best path to victory? The primary ride home is only fifteen to twenty minutes long. So it's the perfect way to catch up on. What you missed on your way home. Search your podcast app now for primary ride home. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable. Eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five. No ridiculous markups. No hassles. Just quality affordable. I wear delivered right to you visits. Any today at Zanny dot com slash CNN. Hey, everyone. I'm David chalian, the CNN political director, and this is the daily DC. Thanks so much for listening today on the podcast the black vote. Yes, nothing's monolithic, but the importance of deep support from the African American community in a race for the democratic nomination for president cannot be overstated. It's really important a huge substantial chunk of the democratic nominating electorate is African American in some states like in the state of South Carolina, the in the early four states and throughout a swath of the south and then throughout the country. More broadly, the African American vote plays an even greater role than it does nationally. If you look at the contest, but it is critical. If you look at the delegate allocations and the state by state where getting to the nomination getting to that fifty percent, plus one. Of those pledged delegates you just can't do it without a substantial portion of the African American community and electorate supporting you. Which is why you have seen candidates in the democratic field making very deliberate pitches to African American voters from the moment they got in. It's not a one in done kind of. Oh, we're going to do this on MLK day, or oh, we're going to go talk to Al Sharpton group, you see a pretty consistent and sustained effort in Wyoming African American voters. We saw this weekend with Joe Biden making his debut trip to South Carolina for this presidential campaign. And what did you sing you saw candidate a front running candidate who has deep ties to black voters? Deep ties to South Carolina where black voters make up a clear majority of the voters in the democratic primary. Notice how he refers to President Obama's his buddy. Barack no mistake there in how he's trying to attach himself to his former boss and. You see it in his amped up rhetoric also against President Trump. Yeah. We don't normally hear Joe by them. Call him a clown. But he was ratcheting up that that anti Trump rhetoric. All of this was of the peace as was going to church on Sunday morning. So Biden clearly trying to cement the advantage. He has we talked about this last week in the CNN poll that SRS conducted that was out last week Biden's front runner status. In a big part is being driven by the non white vote. Now. As I mentioned last week in our poll, he's winning across every category demographic group, you could imagine he's a. You know, he got a real bounce out of that announcement, and he's a real formidable front runner, but it is that non white vote. That is one of his best performing groups and delivers him such a margin of advantage over Bernie Sanders and others that it fuels his overall advantage that we see in the race in a very significant fashion. So Biden was down in South Carolina trying to cement that lock that in make sure he's not taking that for granted. And obviously there are two African American candidates in the race Kamla Harris of California, Cory Booker of New Jersey clearly part of their strategies to win the nomination is to get a big piece of the African American vote. I don't think maybe since Jesse Jackson ran for president that we've seen a candidate day in and day out more in a more concerted fashion, really commit themselves to appealing African American voters. In addition to the broader appeal, they're making to a broader electorate, I don't think we've seen anybody do that more assiduously than we've seen Kamala Harris do just look at her campaign schedule over the last few months. This is a critical critical component for her. And there's one way that you could tell them presidential campaigns. What is really important to a campaign? And what isn't and one way you can really tell that is where the candidates spends their time. So just look at how much candidate time, the Harris campaign has had Senator Harris in environments like HP see us, or you know, going to events with her sorority sisters. This has been a clear strategy and the big question that I think is going to hover over this race from now through next February is if anybody specifically Harris her Booker is able to chip away at Biden's strong support from African American voters in this democratic nomination race. It is going to be such a significant question. It's going to be one of the most sort of definitive pieces. Of this. When we look back at whoever the democratic nominee is believe me, we will be looking back to see if Joe Biden maintained. An expanded a level of support from African American voters or if over the course of the campaign. Kamala Harris, Cory Booker or others. Elizabeth Warren has been out there working very hard to African American voters are able to peel away from Biden support now. There's one candidate in the leading group of six people to judge the mayor south bend who is clearly having a problem in expanding his coalition of support significantly into the African American community today people which was down in orangeburg, South Carolina. And he that's a. Orangeburg is a city. That's like seventy five percent African Americans. I'm not got to be up from there about the Democrats in orangeburg, though, it is overwhelmingly democratic place. And if you look at the photo that Buddha just own campaign put out on Twitter the crowd at his event in orangeburg, South Carolina was overwhelmingly white, and this is not something that people did size away from. He is he is flat out said this is a problem. I believe today. He said, it is his campaign's biggest homework assignment that they have to get better. And he has to get better at drawing more support from African Americans. And he says he's going to do. So by never given up on it and keep returning and and keep talking, but he's also calling on the help of you know, the few African Americans who have shown up to really help him their friends and family and support networks to to get the word out. What I think you'll find interesting is our reporter, Vanessa your Cambridge. She's on the ground there in South Carolina with Buddha judge today. She asked him flat out what his campaign is doing to try to get African American voters into his events. Get African American voters to hear his specific pitches to why he should be president and the parts of his agenda that may resonate most. With African American voters. Here's a little bit about that exchange want you to hear between the Nessie your cave of CNN and mayor people to judge. So obviously. Looking out into the population? Here is seventy five African American joke campaign due to try to get those voters in the door. Well, what we're doing? We're about to announce are on the ground staff. It'll be a diverse staff to the flex the campaign. We're trying to build, and you know, it's one thing to kind of put out word and see who finds their way to us. It's another to really be building the relationships in neighborhoods in organizations in churches. They will help invite people into this process who maybe wouldn't find their way to me. Otherwise, we know we've got our work cut out for us. That's exactly why we're here. Now, why would start returning until we built the kind of coalition be wants really g that outreach that you're talking about trying to we out for this. What we did not have a professional staff on the ground in South Carolina for this trip. Like, we're about to but the outreach, obviously, this is the pattern and the philosophy of outreach. That's going to drive everything becomes easier. As you build those relationships that take time, but that we don't have moment to spare in order to try to the. The other thing that Buddha said was that this is really about trust. And budget said that trust is a function of time. He said that a black voter may automatically trust a candidate who is a candidate of color and may automatically trust candidates that they feel they've known or observed for ten twenty or thirty years. So being the new guy on the block and the new white guy on the block he saying he still has work to do to build that trust. But this is going to be. Critical mission number one for people to judge if he wants to advance from nowhere into the front running pack into an actual contender for the democratic nomination. So it will be critical to watch I was mentioning that few people have pursued wooing the African American vote as consistently and in as dedicated a fashion as commonly Harris has this cycle last night addressing the ACP in Michigan. Harris also made the point that she's not having this conversation about who is most electable in terms of who can win that white guy in the rust belt that drifted to Donald Trump. She was making the point to a room full of African Americans in Michigan. That they tour are the voters that need to be wooed to Flint Michigan back from red to blue. It was a really interesting different slice on this notion of electability what she has said before previously is that when she hears people talk about who's most electable and immediately goes in their ability to win over white working class people white working class men specifically in the mid west. That that is not the only definition of electable. And that it's one she's rejecting and doesn't believe is the way forward for the Democratic Party. It's a real interesting difference from what a lot of the analysis points to about a Joe Biden or potentially a Bernie Sanders and their appeal certainly why their campaigns believe they match-up best against Trump. And Kamala Harris, obviously, just does not into that at all. So that was part of her effort again as recently as last night. So you will see a ton of candidates in this democratic race out there trying to over this critical constituency inside the Democratic Party, but keep your eye on this because it is going to be determinative that does it for this edition of the daily DC. Thank you all so much for listening hope you'll tune in again right here tomorrow. Are you interested in learning how great companies grow? The download the Mark podcast. Amar tech podcast tells the stories of real world marketers who use technology to generate growth in a chief business and career success from advertising to software as a service to data getting brands authentically integrated the content performs better the TV advertising. Typical life span of an article about twenty four to thirty six hours before reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call an action that it's just a matter of timing ready to learn the secrets of technology driven marketing than download the Mark podcast. Just search Martin A R T C H wherever you download your podcasts.

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Inside Supercars - #276 Friday - Alex Davison

Inside Supercars

21:02 min | 11 months ago

Inside Supercars - #276 Friday - Alex Davison

"Hi I'm Shane. Van Gets Big and and you're listening to inside supercars from the rice treks across the strategy at he is inside supercars welcoming survey cows. We've been fortunate enough to get the newest civic. I drive around the block that being Alex Daves in Terni but he's still news. Subic i-drive again. Good to have you back Alex in more ways than one and very pleased that you got the gate. Thanks very much. Thank you made the decide Geek. Everyone wants but the one thing is you're driving a car and their limited resources but the thing is you've now got some time to actually put more on those resources and let's just talk about how this came about now. You have driven Poeple Cook shake for the Steiner brothers. remember who else you drive. Forward sippy gas Obtain plenty of print Charlie spruce dumped in You're not planning fainting plenty of vein around being around long enough absolutely and Willie's your younger brother by the way to remind us that they use so I'm this came about you had had some conversations with John about You know I I Jura drive and they loved the whole. The offer comes up because James Buildings Walk wife and And he said brought is I'll do it better and that it wasn't more complicated than that we're in discussion already I'm recruiting progress to the point where there was a potential that there is some full-time writers and You know I I really thought it was only worth while to get back into You know the fulltime doing. They're phasing it works for the whole season And I saw that. That would make it a lot more valuable for me and for for the team. Say That's what we agree on doing and to be back in the day it was You know it'd be that perhaps even I was gonna say the dies but it was the The thing that we we hit the green button and and decided we're going to push your paper that But once I was there I was. I was fantastic and It was just so disappointing but the the wake didn't continue because back in the car on. Who's SORT OF DECISIONS AND COUPLE? Who aren't kitchens was fantastic are really counting down the the good stuff now. The great thing is that yes. You couldn't leave anything on the table because you ten minutes to do it in. I think you qualified twentieth. Bison yeah when you say it on paper. It doesn't really impressive But the gap. I would be unreasonable to expect to be a whole lot further when looking at competitive field as when I literally Iran attract and Set in the room on Wednesday evening before being in the morning You know we're always going to talk about the In the practice sessions was although when you're eating last in the first practice session because we'll if most people put on at the end time I was good enough to seven eight but it wasn't allowed to they used a fraction. Say Much right You know on that one corner way. Ten twelve with the Trek limits come into play and then say practitioner saints So we got to reasonable levels through one room the crew album pop basically one dash you know either a very smart guy for it. I'm grain for green for a very long time I was never going to maximize some particularly well so You know always hacking north to be on the back row of the grid. That aren't you know it's pretty competitive with ric Chris. My teammates Already done in the car or day to the next guy which I think would Scott Pie in the second session. So it wasn't half a second behind the next car. We were there with the path and there was plenty of improve our waking from Forte. Alexey jump into the car. Normally you'd spend two or three days making a seat mold. You'd spend a day at least getting pedal box right. You're doing this the night before he writes the cast. So have close was the car and you to comfort and being comfortable One of the perfect. It was good enough for the weekend The actual safety and the state mode and where the steering wheel and everything is was was pretty good Fortunately triple I have you know. They got shine. Dragen for them so they and Jonathan Cole. They've got They used to having the kind of sort of set up around herding folder. Out Again and the the sleep breath of believing that power the same as what China US plenty of spicy in there A couple of small day cows with the pedal boxes with not fin. We're fixing the show but all of that was relatively minor and with no there was no limitations on from an economic on. Have you We'll we'll improve it when we have time for sure especially when we get to some of the longer rices with thing comfortable in the car and having everything particularly with the state and the pedals is really important but for the time being it was pretty good and we're going to talk with. Rice by the just looking at a rice team and driver and all the components that go up to thinking about the holy trinity of the drive of the car and the engineer now I know that resources at take no what I support. A limited The cavs going back up to Queens trucks. Go back up there. S It From overthrowing Melvin Craig this thing so much on sixty over the last name for what's on what's happening. I think John just packed it just to wait and see where it was going That I will be cornerback. Landed at some stage it and the interesting thing and coasties that The the truck and the truck driver you know well from your cruickshank days that being Michael of WHO's one of the More talented in the driver stikes behind the truck will. Yeah and I think a long time as you said from from the PTI dis And that you know that he's pulled crocs was at least familiar Walking in there and and and saying that's right and it's good to everyone thinks he's just truckdriver. Bet Your smashed of the truck either also. The tiger is Manage all the wheels and the ties and a very very important so good having a very experienced guard managing the talk show in days and in fact there was a time when rice facts gave added a super cast team of the year and there are a number of truck drivers quite glad to have one. That would win anyway. So the elements. Are you going to a triple eight car? You can access. I believe he'd have an agreement in place engineering agreement in place with AAA Jomaa would to have access to some engineering Datta. Yes that's I'm you can access information so to see and we all know that old adage about it's good being fast but it's even better than you know why you fast and that you'll be able to access and to see why China and Jamie for instance with as the growth rate what it was. They had on board that you didn't have yes. Look at new today. Said a great deal so the ends in the APP agreements. I'm not prairie familiar with but The simple version is we have a customer. Triple I car. Which is It's kind of SPEC as you can. You can get So the hot way is fundamentally makes debate I have a engineering agreement retrieval. So we get some information For sure which thing a very small team We will be the smallest team on the grid. I'm particularly when you're looking at the full time employees That that agreement very beneficial because it gives you a set up And actually the W-. When you've got to go with me coming in I haven't had come into the ice meeting with that. Any involvement mating engineers mechanic track Knowing that you go to a reasonable starting point is is really important and you can feel when you draw the line that fundamentally well engineered it more or less. What you say It's not a mile away and not moral out of the week like so. It's a good starting point two two chain from Reicher's in the future will be a little more organised. And you know as I said we'll be after work work on front. Chaining the cats and my preferences I suppose From that starting point so I guess having that agreement and all that is personal. Tamers necessitate you. You really can't compete with that. Some supposedly critically Alex when we talk about the Paul cruickshank days how far the wheel is turned. That sort of thing was actually banned. Teams weren't allowed to have technical alliances and and we saw Bri taken by Brought Paul cruickshank racing effectively. Go to the wall because they were forced as a small team to do everything themselves are not remember the details of that but suddenly full is one of the first. Fokker Frank. Each one of the first things to to to have a proper engineering agreement. We triple eight so I mean that one of the first teams to run in customer talk arrangement and do it professionally do it. Well and Pose had a fantastic little team back then. have very strong team structure with mechanics And good equipment from triple. I and I still believe that. There's a lot merit for that for that team structure. I'm with the with the hardware that is now viable to purchase Particularly from triple I There's no reason if you can assemble crew woke else right curve Faker engineers and He can be a front running thing now whether you can challenge for championship against the model t I am on. Penske is another story but For sure you can be a front running. Same we've beaten smuggle Obviously requires people drowned in engineering. Everybody I'm Paul is to get back to run it. I knew that properly I suppose the Most of the realities of civic cars and INRO makes it very difficult for the smaller change to survive but I'm assuming the fundings that that business model restore them and And I suppose Jonathan and take my order. School has also been very successful in the past on those championship was won. Bathurst with willing Jonathan on. It's not that long very sorry that experience so to run a front running same with with the customer business model Experiences it and always done it before so There's a lot of work required to claim and everything back to that level There's no doubt about it but Some of the ingredients Aaron experience. Certainly that one of the important things that you've actually got on your side is we know that Rollin dine likes to see his cows win with the his own. Cows echoes but if he's cows comp win than he likes to see his house winning Sam sure to that in that he will be doing what he can to ensure that happens and you know at times in the past has had a pretty good relationship with with Roland so I think that could will resume. That was speaking would resume. That will be the one thing that you wanna hear. His arising resumes You know he that The sound of a rice. Staten and getting undecideds odors away. Something that you very anxious to have to to that ain't early days. You've only had a couple of days after returning from the ground. Pray without any Rice runs have you got in place sort of a shade. You'll in your mind now what you're wanting to do Look to be honest. This week things have been changing and transpiring so rapidly tiny. I have no idea what's going to happen in the next couple of weeks I'm reading. I'm getting much to my like everyone else I we're we're you know we're we're learning is going It's not only the world and the rice is changing. You know a lot of Straw workers instructors for Different comments factors. And you know there are a Lotta coaching and do all sorts of things thought of rising to to make a living and all of that stuff is being affected by The Corona virus drama at the second. So you know it looks like from what was being held for. Knicks EVENT WILL. The next superpower will be attending his fingers. Crossed the intention as who to replace Boys rikers that went anything and still have the the complete schedule this year. So Look. I'm sure everyone running a rising championship in astride. The Monitor particularly that is in. The House will be working race. Get your race scheduled at home. Sills on and get everything. Get Older Van Place. And and you know fingers crossed. We have enough that he can be funny arising Gambians. Whether you're a driver is fan. You know that'll be exciting and itself. If if we can get to that point right now you have done so many different types of racing you one of Australia's Best Career Cup drivers. There's no doubt about that. What are you like with similar? Icing WITH SEAN. Sabin on the show This week talking to us about the proposal put together an e series that will help fill some of the void of the rising fans. Wanting to see you drive is doing something though. That's interesting Art is well exactly how that will pan out. I I'm not a hundred percent stroll but You know it of of actually pain Cheap ing away without too much stress but still shipping right getting getting an old simulated the wheel and on head up and running again and sort of ordered a few weeks for not knowing that this was all happening. And I'm so that was something actually when I before I got the draw of the season It was something I was thinking. What helped me styler with shop and Phil Phillip on the job at the same time did on spider. I would be looking at doing the same thing under very thrice side OBE- be working how to try and get behind the wheel of the senior writer soon as possible now because whether it's a familiarize or or or realize I can guarantee you become very very competitive you guys are going to be strapped into. They simulated to some rising over the next few months. I I'm not. I haven't done a hate. The SIM racing. It's not something I do waking out a lot of the other guys do but I'm trying to get spayed as 'cause I can't. Yeah David Reynolds Heights simulators. So I think you have to say Benchmark ABOVE ABOVE DAVID. Who has a very well known disdain for it whereas you gotta see you ain't from deepest qualies if the co-drive is even. I believe we'll branded again as well so it could be interesting to see who lines up for this. And if they if in my opinion they're smart about it they could have thirty if you include all the all the all the co drivers will let would be certainly interesting to see if they willing to go that far and really stack the feel. Benny fifty-five again exactly. Maybe maybe who knows what's going to happen but it's GonNa be fun and it'll be a cool experience because the Iraqi sandwich before I would say there hasn't been many televised sandwiches with a folk rid of professional drivers alert. you know particularly Acerbic Erasing Samsung President ended and and pretty cool. So I'm I'm looking forward to learning more about it and Getting both paycheck in it as well. Alex if we could Shade you'll talk to you again when we know when we're going to arise main coming up. We'd love to to chat in a couple of weeks time. Maybe that's optimistically couple weeks. Maybe a month or so Just as a matter of interest As a man of interest just ready to release that a young driver who I saw in New Zealand in the series guitar to Rice series Has just been made a red bull driver now. Eagle Fraga One the museum on praying won the Toyota Rice series and he beats Liam Lawson and a Now the rape driver in Yuki Tanada who is a formula two driver and he started doing grand jury smell aged three. He learned his skill learned his skill behind electric debt and now he is driving in formula three in Europe this year and as the elevated to the ripple championship side of the possible. Alex give I absolutely not. Maybe I won't have my comeback and Super Cos- -At my job to quality us out of the settle so definitely it's one thing. I don't give up on the right to say some young guys getting opportunities like that He's one of many the ripple of promoted into that room the program. It's certainly cutthroat program night. It's one way you don't get many second chancers so quickly. He Mike well thanks. Alex Davison the newest drive in the Serb cap. Pedic this year and CO driver of cow. Nine now what? Sport and Alex. We look forward to doing before you'd makes get on the track. I look forward to that very pregnant dining. Thanks very much. What a crazy week. It's being here in Sukhothai land. We've got more still to come this way. Come back to inside. Supercars DOT COM. Are you around lunchtime where he can hear? Macaulay Jones the owner of the week until next time round keep smiling and by for now the inside supercars is produced by fund media tune in next week the more and Sport Radio. Dot Com dot. Au own locking the podcast on your mobile device. Search inside Saupiquet. How's the views expressed on inside? Supercars including the panelists and guests do not reflect the views of the network thunder media will sport radio any publication or broadcast of the show without the expressed written permission of thunder? Media is strictly prohibited.

Alex Jonathan Cole Paul cruickshank Rice China John front running Subic Alex Daves Terni Van Steiner Charlie spruce cavs Alex Davison Willie Staten Knicks ric Chris
Episode 148 (2019) Kim Rollason-Nokes On Creating A Sense Of Belonging For Women Of CALD Backgrounds

Impact Boom

22:36 min | 2 years ago

Episode 148 (2019) Kim Rollason-Nokes On Creating A Sense Of Belonging For Women Of CALD Backgrounds

"Welcome to impact firm at all. We searched the globe should find the people stories ideas and inspiration to help you create maximum positive each week impact berm brings you thought provoking entities with worldly Titians passionate about creating positive social change these designers, social, entrepreneurs educators, innovators thinkers and doers shared their projects in these thoughts and insights, I'm creating a better world, you can find all the stories links other great content at impacts all follow us on Facebook. Without the latest updates or subscribe to the newsletter or night, James listening one hundred and forty. Alan and passionate the latest insights trade positive social impact because I was speaking with king and Knox Kim as a social and about the role of education training and employment prodding social change after twelve years in the nonprofit in community services sectors, kin lift to roll worth in refugees settled in two thousand seventeen to stop a social enterprise ethnic in two thousand nineteen she's gone onto also fans who are selling studio both social enterprises dedicated to providing innovative and meaningful training and employment opportunities for women from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds Kim believes strongly in the role social enterprises can play in promoting celebrated cultural diversity and addressing some of the most pressing social issues facing women from cold backgrounds. Particularly those that arrive in strata as refugees Sahlin secrets. So tonight forecast discuss Kim's journey as she schist exprienced way to set up a social enterprise, and we'll get a kitchen boss on starting new social in prizes like him. Thanks very much for joining us, actually. So the keep things off could you share a little bit about your background? And what led you on this journey of studying various social price? I do buy that kind of in the nonprofit Sita for around obvious across a few different areas. From weakened people disabilities through the sport, immigrations dicta in most recently king with young people from refugee and migrant backgrounds and really passionate about wyking. The the nonprofit seek to end making a contribution to communities and supporting people, but one of the really challenging things was finding Weiqian at Sika was the increasing challenges around funding, and that we would be able to make the loan to meaningful and sustainable change that we wanted because we're so constrained by reducing rights of bonding constraints round funding in a really challenging spice to where can I think I'll contracts in our prophecy decided to short shoulder, so we actually plan onto him weekly wanted to do and it kind of almost a kind of a tick box exercise. We would spend. Chasing funding. China the front running things trying to put funding chase mornings weaker Kate jobs in for me was not sustainable not meaningful and just really challenging. So in my whip with young people from from cold backgrounds. I've really sad CNA with young women in particular arrive here and having really significantly underrepresented unemployment compete to the strategy and peas, and this was a number of reasons from like, a wick experience like condition qualifications Colt from family expectations on unfortunate. I think discrimination as well. People look for the name of the essays and things like that. So really see young woman really struggling with really finding the fate and getting settled in the new country in actually having the supports that needed full that. So I kinda drew on an old business model from twelve years ago when I was a student beckons eland nice around children's birthday parties. And looked at how I could take business model with the surgery are seeing and bring us to give it to create socially to prize. It could not only promote cultural diversity, but also provide opportunities for these young woman to grain the Chinese employment that they really needed as if he was born ROY to postwar. What do you say? It's name is social enterprise our goal is to promote hopeful diversity through funding creative programs which helps children young people. And so we do everything from kids potties to school holiday workshops since programs in. We do it by training up young woman from culture ivy's backgrounds in providing them a platform to share his stories in the culture with the community. And while also giving the really crucial training metering in employment that I need unto themselves out. So we really especially if they from the we do with the young woman is really about steeping stone. So it's a really giving them the support any to develop they knowledge of the work environment here in a Leah on giving them the metering to become some of the barriers and challenges facing whether it's bringing to give it's the two identities between maybe traditional cultural identities families Tyson's versus the identity of bait here in straightly seeing the opportunities in covering those tweeted, this is really a spice with these young women can come end she stories of one another come to give NFL found. It's become much lace about. The Mets she getting job in the defining. Average is what I really thought when I started. It was all about more about seeing the finding it as a place of belonging and feeling that seems longing Hewish often this kind of tonight. I haven't found yet in the genius Safaa. So yeah. So that's that's pips within running now for about a year year and a bit in delivered by hundred cultural experiences in the community. We have a team around six tightness, and yeah, it's kind of growing for now. Great. So cop against few berries, along the way, absolutely. Headed what will is have you have? This the number of. I think the biggest thing for me watching the social enterprise teacher in general. I think it's kind of people that come into the is people had come from business background and want to do. Moga they feel like the Cooper wills just not enough to the instead, they bring these amazing business skills in in SaaS which winter prizes to address sexual Nate's been the I guess people like myself that coming in front office with the frustration all funding cycles in of sustainability willing to have developed most Steinem models to create a these saying, Dr sex change, I guess the challenge with paper with business skills coming in as a noisy -serily address the social impact while the actually pregnancy rate isn't always addressed in data main for wise men on stand fully all of the barriers will vote the issues at hand, whereas light myself and one of my biggest berry is hitting the business skills. And so I can I not how to address this the sexual Nate. But actually growing a profitable sustainable businesses. Something that is an ongoing learning Kufa me, and yeah, I guess balancing looting. Business skills is balancing the pisses. And I think it's probably one of my biggest challenges is learning how to make business decisions last year had to come my part time staff NBA hood being a young business been unemployed for a long time. And she was with me for about six months in at the end, we just financially maintain physician, but I knew that the roles are each lot to hear and Tim's ability confidence living's young, unfortunately, it was probably one of the hottest decisions. You've hit may was making the business decision that I hit two liter guard. And I swear I actually think I cried what living could art that she cried. But familiar was a moment where I was able to why vice obviously that I have a social this. But to make it where can be meaningful for many people is sometimes to make really hot this decision about. So this thing one of my biggest challenges among them continuing to. Through every night one of thousand that's. And there's I think that's the challenge of sexually to prizes that you do have to balanced by sides, which is a really challenging space to be a very exciting spanks that very challenging one. Absolutely. So Kim really interested. He more balance isn't structure as United is nine city legal structure such scalea yet you've experimented with couple any recently Chinese to of prophet legal structure, a lovely the what's on this. What would you recommend other social is that way up which is instructive at all that would be such a price? I thought it off as just try. It was simply have on. Why infamy? When this started sexually to prize was business. That was the any structure that I thought that's actually is was it's kind of like his last year went on a nice state in structure for for year. I city I guess the partisan calms off what that what it was was India sat consider making the Chinese to a nonprofit structure, I guess me weighing out that because I had had a colony. Of the experience in the nonprofit Sita particular around governance in heaven pool bullets. It would be serially. Positive for the Garth organization constraints funding cycles reliance on funding cycles that I really had cut shot away from the don't seek drought when I left over the dismantling some of those experiences head to see the benefits of the nonprofit structure gained. I think what I would recommend to pay was. I mean, everyone is different. So whatever can you to sleep, right? The idea of legal structure in business model, and I'm not sure from using at tombs. But there is you label shush which can be a business or can't be a nonprofit. And it doesn't change how you upright business. And so I still with its Neal made the change to being a non profit, and we still exist as a socially deprived seats that we use us pay services and to generate Alcoa revenue. So we not grant reliant on donation reliance. Not existing case, essentially as what you might consider charity about seated, a nonprofit the change profit is a bad ass making commitment to rain. Vy sting all that profits back into al-qaeda's. But it's also one of the reasons I might the decision to change also that for us it provides a lot of benefits taking these yearly is around guiding some grant funding to support out early guards on with the goal of that reducing time becoming just a small portion of revenue comes from that it was crucial these days. But I would recommend to PayPal to consider what they look at the individual businesses four. What they are says not there's no one right stretch for any socially deprived familiar with his knee. It was about building something sustainable and Cranleigh Gacy answer that there is ongoing employment opportunities beyond woman, and it wasn't something. I'm quite realistic. These something that sounds gonna come along with me dollars to buy. So it's not about me generating that I can settle that. It's going to be hugely profitable in the future is about creating ultimately if I can pay my staff team continue to create in growing employment opportunities beyond women and promote cultural diversity Michael's rached. And so they don't call me that that shot with my Papis and my goals wife niece going to be in the future are the papal particularly product by spots. Really do wanna grow grow quite a Elijah business Stein. As businesses as much more seasonable shut out differently. Just recommend people. Look at. What they're doing what they what the along to go with it is and be realistic about what it is. Yeah. Because it's been a pleasure to which draws of the you research cuma and heavy go through that elevates husker grams will end recently in Kosanov onto a sewing shoe. So love you share little without what meant was such Joe it's with bone side, many towing and Lia Andrea. So tell us what are you doing all monta Choudary with beta big vision taking Metis in something that I have jumped on board to found with hit monta is really about bringing to life. A luck on Easter signing manufacturing industry here in Australia with a growing the rising his train of fast fashion, people really wanting to see more if the call sign infection more shutting brands wanting to manufacture likely, but unfortunately, these meaner 'Significant boss. Song skills. In our country. So much was really about during on the utilize skills of women from refugee and migrant backgrounds in providing the simulator Ifny a training in support maybe China employment pathway on. So that we can draw on the skills in also provide an amazing service to stranding clothing brands. So it's yes dove. You're matching illegalize, but with head off his brand come aboard, which is very exciting. And yes, so experimenting different socially pluses. There have expensive us. What do you believe for the months sits traits that you see in the more successful social? Look, I think the first thing size said sixty six four shapes sizes and foams. I think sometimes we have an idea and heat of what successful on fuel looks like. And I have to say from my Junie that that is just not the case one about we've sixteen values with Ethan in one of the tangale, we have which I really push with my young woman is dream big India, greatly anything is possible with patient who severence positions. This familiar really represents. It idea that the most successful entrepreneurs found those food hevea passion for something. And that that is not going to happen overnight in the ones that been away think that hit not took teniente excellently, and it's really easy. It's really easy to believe that it was instant success in that have some magic skill CEOs. Magic knowledge that we don't have it made possible with actually they just hit prequels Salang smash throat. So I think. Some of the people I see is the most successful ones. I really respect a lot of those who has stuck with it and seeing themselves through our well, what someone describe really love is the mec- middle. This point we honeymoon period of your great idea and you hit the like. The hod middle face where like cash flow is hob things. I am delighted those in your get your Hadramut. And you wonder what you doing and you're with it's massive days in China balance x number of things pay bills, and is tough. And it's tough going Pusa beer through those times to see the end result is what I think makes someone successful in. This guy is not an educational skills, cedar over background anything. It's about how you can take. What you not in how you can draw on the suppose Reggie? And as far as it probably is one of the side thing is is clever. Ration- I think Sasha enterprise presents such beautiful spice Kleiber action across industries. It doesn't often get done very well. In one thing. Trying to allow Nathan I think I see the successful people doing his drawing on the the knowledge in the resource available across industries, whether it's nonprofit. Government education business in drinkers to give us research aids. In a case why so. Right. So drawing to the end other any other sparring projects initiatives such positive that you want to share their. Yeah. Thought about this news audits, so many but one an initiative that I've been involved in for about six months now down in Logan in Queensland. I'm sharing it because it's a really beautiful example of community which info community as cold baba toke. It's a initiative that was the vision came from a guy down leg in runs a Bob shop specifics Bob shop and his vision was to accomplish shop to eventually people experience timelessness and provide the I experience with I could come in heavy he caught in by could be hit conversations with the Babas in that could I guess bring that dignity and get the support that could go apply for jaw will do what they needed to do in swan pace of the possible. When he really thought, hey could contribute. So I got pulled into kind of how tight knit vision to making actually get up and going and we see the face died. And we ran the face to the last year we hit about I think round Sadie so people come through that day. End. It's been a beautiful elation. We just ran out full for International Wednesday class where he can was supporting we have different thing. Now every month. No, supporting hard-working, instructing moms. We had eighty one monster that night, and as we've grown Spain's amazing coming together community, we decided beautifully Ganic laid this, you know, people walk down with a bunch of drinks saying just move community hit what you're doing. He's much drinks tonight. A business woman underneath the barbecue food or the by donating a bakery, suits the night history. Zimbabwe is donating your time and skills every month. Eighthly now goes down rental kids activities. Keep the kids coupon in we had Flytrap daddy last time in it's very small but often when we run community programs, Hugh don't officer long as we run from organizations in. We've I don't think the community needs. It's not Suwat community needs. So watching a project staff. From the ground up in seeing people everyone coming up to see it grise in amazing. So yeah, next. It's now is to actually develop a system prices to allow about shorts to take that on and to run the month. So it can sky allow beyond what we just doing. So. Small. I think it's just really beautiful example of how we actually pal community. Really amazing things can happen test. The Trump funneling Consignia said a finish off them kin. Folks, would you recommend and ten books that I really recommend is originals by him ground. I really this book in us talking a little bit Ilia that idea that sixties comes shapes and forms in this is a really beautiful book that talks about that. And talks about you know, you can be young algae can be a woman a man you can have hit not she had all of the Keiichi in everyone is capable. So I really loved that book your sitting thinking, I can't do this because and I lost times with my young side. I couldn't do this Kim because I'm not a great Lehto or not extrovert or I'm not this in. I think it's really important that people say that everyone history. It's mccann. Laid success in what it fullness Tyke. So I really not their folk the other one Arabic community is checked one. The thank you story buys tenue firmness. Yes. Before the idea his fearsome positions. His book is I say on a die because it just spike so much of the super quilty hit in the fact that no matter how much brought compete keeps his veering in he kicked his Pippen soc strongly senior what he was doing his idea of giving hundred profits to his produce overseas, which criticized and abuse the years, he stayed sorrow true to that end. He kicked going in. What he thought was going to take three months to confide his in as cruelty successful now through his inside differently. Give that I read the inside of my Junie in it. I am I always think that today. Now when I'm hitting it that hard. That. Yeah. To Cape Cape pushing through some granted to labored on Kim said, thanks so much talk that injured spurious. Tracking. Down. Listening to your far links to the initiatives people in resource as mentioned in the cast on impact spoon. The rogue. Please leave he commenced below. And remember, we'll be publishing threshing brations insights beauty create positive impact every week on the website Facebook page and Twitter.

Knox Kim China Facebook Junie Sita Weiqian James Titians Mets Nate front running NBA Alan monta Choudary India al-qaeda PayPal Leah
EP91: 99 Ways to Own Your Anxiety

Let's Talk About It with Taylor Nolan

1:12:39 hr | 1 year ago

EP91: 99 Ways to Own Your Anxiety

"<music> hello and welcome to let's talk about it. This is tailor your host and today we are going to get into who anxiety and we've talked about anxiety before on the podcast but day we're going to really talk about how you can only diety and not let it take over your day to day your feelings your behaviors your mind <hes> and so. I'm super excited today. We're GONNA be talking with Julian brass. Who's the founder and former CEO of award winning Canadian Media Company notable a front running online brand dedicated to driven young professionals and his first battle with society began when he started this whole endeavor of notable that dramatically affected his life professionally personally and geographically which helped fuel his passion rushing to embrace his mental health challenges rather than hide behind it and I think is really a great store because they didn't get his so relatable in so many different ways <hes> so then I'm just kind of overall he went into this ever expanding journey of exploring natural life styles <hes> looking into holistic health and wellness spirituality yoga positive house of psychology <hes> he's trained and collaborated with Yogis from India rabbis and priests in Jerusalem top medical doctors in New York City and some of the most successful entrepreneurs owners in the world <hes> as an international keynote speaker workshop facilitator coach teacher healer he aims to leave every person he connects with ready to not just I own their anxiety but to truly own their lives and he has a new book out called ninety nine ways to own your anxiety and breaks it down really into these tips and tricks <hes> the three different parts on how to own your body how to own your mind and how to own your soul and I'm very excited to chat why the lovely gentleman and he has actually here in Seattle so welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being on the show and welcome to the Seattle so cool to be here. Yes I have to say from reading the book and from just our brief conversation before this <hes> <hes> you very much are kind of like what I envisioned you be like literally walked up to you and you're just like doing yoga so it's it's very nice to meet you in person and it's been a while since I've done an in person interview before but I'm excited to talk a little bit more about anxiety Eddie and what kind of lead you to writing this book. Here's if we kind of start off before you became more focused on exciting mental health. You were running a media company so I'm curious. If you can kind of walk us through a little bit of your path to this book absolutely so it's really cool to be in Seattle yeah say just came straight from Texas assist so it's quite different vibes very different <hes> all right so growing up. I was always a very a very friendly sort of a bead positive kid. Actually that never had any any. He like mental health challenges whatsoever. If anything I was always wanted have too much fun the problem that I gave my parents that was the only concern learn and I wasn't that good at school that was the other concern but nothing to do with anxiety and then when I was twenty four years old which is eleven years ago I moved move back home to Toronto from the states where at worked for years and I had an idea to build this media company which is called notable and I started all my own yeah. No investors know obviously clients yet no staff or partners <hes> it became one of the most popular sites colonials in Canada eventually but it took me a while to get there and in the first couple of years when I was doing this you know on my own. Ah I really really really got afraid of the future because the president was so hard so this all of a sudden lead to anxiety for the first time in my life right fear of the unknown. We'll do that and not having enough money to afford a good lifestyle afford good food. Even you know being sure that I could make Morad's all these things coupled with the societal pressures of starting a business and you know looking like you've got it all together. Yeah it all to me and then add to that. I thought back then that if you want to blow off steam you go and you get messed up with your friends. Yeah you go out you get shit faced and maybe I was asking people to blow it off right there. You go and what happens. You just feel worse yeah yeah yeah so yeah so that was my life for a while and one day. I stumbled into a yoga studio had a crush on this girl all and she kept saying no to any kind of conventional date idea. You can think of dinner no drinks no coffee no but I do yoga. I'm like Yoga. Link crew does Yoga. I thought to myself eleven years ago and today by literally doing poses just check Zhang Jilin on the sidewalk doing beautiful. This area is nice and clean flowers and I'll do a little yoga yeah yeah so anyway it was it was my first studio and I found this like it was eighty nine minutes of literally hell but there was one minute of euphoric bliss in the one hundred degree Fahrenheit plus Bickram Yoga class. Oh you did the hot yoga. Oh yeah off and I was at the night before parting with my friends till about five in the started at like nine nine. I really thought yoga was like light stretching so I was like yeah. I'm just GonNa have a fun Saturday night. In such a rude awakening was so the only thing that kept me there is my ego and like not wanting to look down in front of her aware of you in high they actually in the moment. You probably didn't think about it like that. I just showed us. She looks so good. Doing this and I'm like dying. It smells like vodka my Matt Yeah Yeah so anyways that all sort of calm naked to a degree with this idea that I found this one minute of bliss in the studio I had never known and all of a sudden I thought to myself. Hey maybe there's a natural way to get out of this to get out of this anxiety -iety. Rut that I feel way too often and my life wasn't like a full straight line up to the right where it was like I got it all figured out now but I did quote unquote see the light and I realized that there is a better way for me to live then the way that I'm living and I started to do the work and do more to be a personal growth oriented human yeah and slowly that would help me figure out oh you know how to how to get out of that anxiety right because the anxiety would at least a little bit of depression and sometimes I wouldn't go out for two or three days at a time. I had no staff or clients back then. There was no the need for me to go out. Yeah isolated totally so anyway so that was kind of my story. The beginning MM slowly slowly slowly. I started to figure out how to look at the energy of anxiety in a different way and to start you almost isolated and see oh wow okay when I do this this and this it's more negative and it's more extreme but when I do this this and this might anxiety isn't quite as overbearing and I can actually actually like see it for what it is is force of energy and now I can use that energy for my to my advantage <hes> and that all of a sudden became my secret edge building my old media company uh-huh and it was funny because in two thousand eight when I started that business was during the time when like blogs were Kinda just coming out online video was starting to begat popular and there were so many people in the Canadian market and of course the American every market but I can tell you but Canada because I was there they were all starting starting blogs and I hate to say it but many of them failed <hes> mine didn't and I really believe a key reason was because of my anxiety it led me to be more resourceful more creative and just straight up have a hard work ethic and other people and it went on to become really popular successful company so I really think anxieties like the best thing we can have an us. Anxious people have true gifts. I really believe this is our this is our a secret edged the life but we need to own we need to own the relationship rather than being owned by it yes and a lot of what you're saying to reminds me of food to kind of notions that we've talked about on the podcast before and <hes>. I'm not sure if you're familiar with untethered soul I love that book yeah and this notion of like you're in her roommate's and acknowledging that your anxiety like being the observer of your anxiety and not letting your anxiety own you <hes> <hes> not letting that anxiety or that emotion drive the car like keeping it in the backseat and remaining in control of it <hes> but it's interesting because I think so many people who are entrepreneurs and who start throwing companies <hes> they do have such this like intense work ethic and often times. I find that it's kind of based in this like fear of if I'm GONNA fail and a lot of that fear I think is piggybacked off of anxiety but that the people who become successful. I suppose us that anxiety Heidi to what would you say how. How did you use your anxiety. The trick is that it needs to be facilitating Sudanese facilitating anxiety right. I always like to look at pro athletes or musicians and you know they're they're at. They're performing doing their thing right like when a pro basketball players but on a core like he's in the change room jumping up and down like price lobbing his chest getting like in the zone right same with hockey players we see during the anthem same with musicians like people get pumped up so to speak the trick is to be able to go into that state in healthy doses and all oh that state become like a way of being because when it becomes a wave being taking a real toll on the body right and I was in that van that world that zone for a while so when you went from debilitating and I'm not going outside for a couple of days at a time to okay. I'm in the I'm in I'm in his own and always in the zone <hes> <hes> that was equally really bad for me. Yeah it sounds exhausted is exhausting and that in itself takes a different toll on your mental health then being being afraid to go out so say social. Anxiety is one thing that like always on a whole `nother thing. Excuse me so the key is to know oh how to go in. Let's say if you WANNA be in that zone but but not live there rightly Lebron James always on the court Lebron James. There's no way he would laugh so many seasons. I I think that is a fantastic way to look at it. Because when you think about people who are running their own companies and people who are entrepreneurs they are always on and and it's always at the work never ends and that you're always working but I don't think that that's sustainable. Yeah I'm with you. We take this athlete analogy. A step further an athlete yourself and me could always say my physical health could be better if we if we if we really were obsessed we could always always be trying to get another rap not watching TV sitting down but instead like doing jumping jacks we could like always be you know phone calls could always walking meetings you know sitting down during this podcast that would be like yesterday's news we'd be on the go right like if we were obsessed so and this is the first time ever came up with this analogy my life but but it's fantastic guided me thank you why why is an entrepreneur is it almost commonplace to be always always on but as a pro athlete one who's rely much more on the body and their physical health they have to give him time to recharge right so I think it so so integral that entrepreneurs and creators while Ya there's always something more that they could do. They need to know how to put that cap on their performance at any given time any given day yeah. I think it it's important to piggyback that with looking at your physical health at looking at your mental health as you would your physical health and that I think that's a big thing that people people tend to prioritize physical health and I think that's why you know in this analogy here with the athletes that they literally have to do those things and people would point that out and be like. Oh my God like just sit down and watch TV. It stop doing squats while you watch the show. This is ridiculous <hes> by it when people are doing things internally. It's a lot more difficult to point that out and I think I think when you start to look at your mental health as you would your physical health and take care of that that would be doing things like giving yourself breaks and really looking outings diety and not you know checking in with your self care so that you don't get to this place of just like total burnout and total isolation. <hes> can it's Sir. I I think it can happen quickly. Yeah it can and it takes such tremendous self control to not be always on even when you're not supposed to be working working like let me give you an example. I just flew in from Texas and I went to the tar room. I took a twenty minute nap and then I hopped in the shower and tomorrow morning I'm on Fox and there's a lot of speaking points that I have for my points will actually be on on on the screen so live if they're gonna be on and the preserving know what they are so therefore I need to memorize five key speaking points are I found myself in the shower literally going over the acronym acronym that I've created to remember and then I was like dude. You're not even in the shower at okay like you need to give yourself some time right now so I saw so I checked in right and I think that's where anxiety and self control <hes> and really wanted to kind of bring it all into one thing I would call it mindfulness. That's probably what I would say there. You go yeah amazing yeah because mindfulness. This is the thing that allows us to check in right. That's like that radar. That snapped snapped like Oh Jeez Jillian. Okay hold on buddy time out like you're in the shower. This five minute like recharge. We'll be really good for you. It's like be here. Hereby present totally be here now. NOCCO says I don't know who that is. A great musician little laugh snorts sometimes that that happens chillers. Guy Eric is GonNa hang on that story. If I get allergic to the cat it'll happen yes right. I'm just we're waiting for that. Lily is and in the bedroom but I learned church in my. It's been a while. I've had someone over that. I don't know they usually always always warn people in advance by it. I don't know we're doing good so far all right. We're going to take a short break here. Share with you guys one of my favorite products that I literally literally us all the time always asked what kind of natural deodorants I lake and any time someone asks me what I use and I say this company. People uh-huh yeah the I've heard of them and I'm like yeah you need to try them out so I want to share with. You guys native who they use. It's natural theater and okay so if you're looking for a product without aluminum <hes> it's free of paraffins filled with ingredients for major like coconut oil shea butter on my favorite staff. Honestly no matter are how hot things are get in native has got you covered my favorite sent the coconut and Vanilla and even have a little travel guy of it that I bring with me and it's ingredients that you can trust and people honestly love it like me because I use it all the time to honestly highly recommend you. Check them out so you can get twenty percent off your first purchase. If you visit native Deodorant Dot Com and use Promo Code Taylor during checkout again that's twenty percent off your first. I purchase at native Rent Dot Com with Promo Code Taylor highly recommend it get yourself some natural deodorant so that you're good dig out all right so we can get back to the show but I needed to share that but as we talk about all of these you know kind of analogies whatnot we are talking about the body and that's kind of you broke up how to own your anxiety into these three different categories kind of of our bodies our mind in our soul and wondering if we could kind of start off a little bit going into <hes> some of the points that you made about owning your anxiety within your body <hes> and I'm really also just kind of curious how you decided to break it up that way. I mean it makes logical sense to me but I'm curious if there was other thought behind that definitely so so I'm a real believer that the bodies the gateway to the mind and without physical health. It's going to be a lot harder to really have positive mental health. It is doable. That's like the holy grail you know. That's like we're the most evolved human can be but the rest of US average people. The physical health really becomes a gateway in a vehicle to to to supreme mental health totally just like going to yoga. I'm having that minute you got it totally and then from a spiritual perspective why in the book own your soul that there's on your body on your mind and on your soul this bridge and we can tap into spirit true spirituality and it doesn't mean a lot of people listening. I'm sure have a trouble perhaps <hes> distinguishing between religion and being religious person or being a spiritual person. They're very different state bar. A religious person can be spiritual. Absolutely the spiritual person doesn't need to be religious. It's about having faith in something greater than ourselves having believe in something bigger than us right eight and the reason why there is an emphasis on own your soul because when we can tap into that higher power and that higher purpose all of a sudden it becomes like this guy becomes like we're holding the universe is hand at all times. CBS so when the fear builds off right when we're feeling really anxious when we're feeling like the world is just much bigger than we are when we can hold on to you know the hand of the universe realize that we are all connected that we're here for a reason and they were doing something purposeful. It's a lot easier to get into a place of okay. I'm ready to control. Call my anxiety. I can now own it right so that's really the inspiration to own your body. Which is what the book starts with was very intentional because the bodies the the easiest place to access so when we can learn how to access the body again now we're in a place where we can start to really get into the more on your mind on your soul yeah and I think think the body pieces much more tangible for people to start off doing and and unfortunately more often people are much more focused on <music> on their bodies and that kind of physical health run. They are mental health to it. Is a nice little gateway drug to being invested in personal growth totally speaker that gateway drug. I think what happens a lot of people that are really into their physical health. What happens is like yeah the achieve that awesome embody and again in that flow of you know getting their sweat on four to seven times a week there and then they get injured and I remember when that happened two years ago I was like show in the physical health zone. I was like doing the gym thing doing the fitness class thing and I. I was like really I if you just saw me on like a picture. Dak is in great shape but when I got injured I no longer had those endorphins and that dopamine being released on a daily basis and I was like damn. Life is hard man. What's the point. What am I doing here own right. Yeah and I realized Shit. Julie and you may be working on your body all this time but your mind is flabby. Yeah and that's the trick we need to we. I believe that we need to get to a place Taylor where our mind is so rock solid picture like an eight-pack on your mid. Megyn where your mind mine is like that eight-pack. It's so rock-solid a matter what happens around US <hes> even inside of us. We are still going to be in a good place. Yeah and I mean I have to say I think for me that has always been a big red flag not only in friendships but in dating in his well when I see someone who is so focused on their outer appearance and is so focused on like God bless you gotta go the gym. The Gym like Jim Bob like Kinda. Give maybe that to me that is such a red flag because they think again everything in moderation that when you're still extreme on one end with something that a lot of other things are now falling to the back burner that oftentimes need a lot of attention and so yeah. I think that is such a good point to I think about like yeah if you were to get injured right now and you weren't able to like go to the gym or like go to that class like where would you be at mentally then. How would you then cope with that and and a lot of people start using into Jim and getting physically fit as a form of coping with depression anxiety or stress or whatever it is that they're going through and again. It's not the it's not a good coping skill because it totally can be but I think us like being intentional about it being a gateway drug to mental health the APP because it is so healthy it is great. I think we'll do obviously there's so much research out there. It shows like exercise is great for so many levels yeah but we can't use that as our as our medicine only because if one day we're not able to and hey everyone listening one day. You're not going to be yeah so then what okay and so on the whole body section you list last several things and a few of them's released couch me that I wanted to touch on so of those were caffeine caffeine being fuel will for anxiety once a day eating in peace <hes> chewing slower and practicing self touch <hes> so I think it'd be really cool to just kind of briefly go over some of those <hes> I think caffeine released couch me because most people drink caffeine every day at least once a day wrote yeah and it makes sense that it would be fueled brings -iety because is it literally like people jittery and it's literally a drug that I don't think people actually think about the drug totally and curious why that why that one stuck <music> out for you yeah well. What's crazy. Is that in the world of anxiety disorders. There's actually one called caffeine related related or caffeine induced. Oh yeah so it's like caffeine is link is so prevalent that it has its own classification uh-huh insurance disorder we got the DSM right over there. We pull it out why it's wild so I don't think that every person who has anxiety like one hundred percent needs to give up caffey. I thought that's not the claim all in the book. Just say quit or reduce coffee spoiled yeah if somebody really the wants to put themselves in the driver seat of being able to change the relationship with anxiety and be able to understand where it's coming from and what spikes it one of the easiest his ways to rip off the peels so to speak like of the onion. If the inside of you is the center of that onion you WANNA to get to it you can rip off all these pills or eaten like like like sought through a whole bunch at a time and giving caffeine is a quicker way to figure out like doc was going down inside of you the real you not the caffeinated you know so. That's a really easy way to like get into it. I mean if you want to go step further. I know a lot of your listeners are into wellness and how it's like an isolation diet type of idea isolation dire you give up like anything. I think the might be a suspect food and then you slowly add one at a time not every week or two weeks and see. Did it spike up my digestion. He ended hurt me in some way. Whatever whatever yeah same idea with this. If you want to really understand where's my anxiety coming from. Let's give up the biggest culprits biggest suspects aspect's true joffe one of them that makes a Lotta sense and now for me. I've decided my own kind of like health food journey <hes> I've done a lot more of like slowly introducing new good delicious healthy foods and then with with each introduction kind of phasing out something something else so that it's not like a a cold cut kind of thing and it doesn't feel like I'm what's the word word so that doesn't feel like I'm Brian. Yes depriving depriving myself yeah <hes> because I think that's a large part of what causes diets. Let's to fail. <hes> is that sense of depriving yourself some and it's I. I don't think it's nice to do to your body in that way either with caffeine. I think another key thing is to understand what actions in your life greetings -iety so for example. Most people are petrified of public speaking. Yes most people also especially the anxiety prone people have some elevated anxiety when it comes to travel <hes>. Oh Yeah people ask me about invite all the time. Yes yeah travelling's Zayda sending travel God you <hes> yeah so you know why even put parameters is on your life to say that like if. I'm going to be speaking in public today I'm going to be traveling. Maybe Caffeine on those days. Maybe it's not cold Turkey right but it's like if it's going to be things. Id Provoking Day. If you've got a big meeting with your boss your talk client coming up and you want to be in control of all of your emotions and all of your energy. Maybe don't have coffee until after after the meeting. It's little things like that. Right is really understanding where we're at knowing how to hack ourselves and I think I a few weeks ago. I talked about this on. May May I did like it. A little instagram story rant on this but I think so often on those kinds of days where you have a big meeting or you have to speak publicly. You're you're experiencing high anxiety to where you want to self soothe and you think that that's a form of self care so so you're GonNa go buy that coffee. You're thinking that's what's GonNa do and like calm your nerves when really it's actually just going to increase that and <hes> perhaps even evoke it much stronger than it would have been present without it but feels like it's going to be the self soothing thing sometimes the things that we think are self care are actually as just attempting to self soothe which unfortunately sometimes actually just leads to self sabotage absolute absolutely much like going for quote unquote a big night out yep yeah you might feel good in the moment by the next three days. You're going to be a heck of a lot harder. Yes just just when you were going for that big now. It's time to recuperate and give yourself some self love. You're actually making everything way more challenging definitely right so we got to know how to sell soothing within a very sustainable healthy way yeah and and to kind of piggyback on that the I really appreciate it that you had a section John once a day eating and peace and I've talked on the podcast before about kind of my. I don't really have a routine but the way that I operate eight when I do work that I'm not I'm not the kind of person that can work like sixteen hours straight or even really like eight hours straight for me. It's like I I will due emails for about two hours. I'll take a break all have a caller recording. I'll take a break and usually those breaks are centered around around food and having a meal and often times it is me by myself and I'll sit out on the balcony with Lil who's over here. <hes> Lil and I will set out on the balcony. L. Used himself in the garden and I'll just sit out. There and I'm like I'm not on my phone. I'm not like I don't on a call him not on my laptop. It's just me sitting out here. Listening the birds washing cars drove drive by people watching and just like having in a moment to myself and it does make such a difference with my anxiety the rest of the workday so beautiful yeah. We're we're so over stimulated all the time all the time. We're connected. We're never coming back to ourselves right. It's like we're basically it's crazy this happened but basically we are looking for one distraction and then another distraction and then another distraction. We don't just come back to ourselves ever right. We got to slow down so much. Anxiety is being created because we're always thinking about what's next. We're always thinking about the future right. If if someone can actually go right into the present moment like truly zone in with laser sharp you know Yogi style meditation like almost at that level station mode. There's no room for anxiety if you're truly in that zone when you're in the moment it's like it's just not going to be there because you're not going to be sitting there. Thinking about is going to be. You're going to be present to I am walking. I am walking. I am walking. I am washing the dishes. I am washing their dishes. I am washing the dishes or I am chewing my food. I'm chewing food. I am grateful for my food. Thank you for my food right and when you zone and it's amazing how you can really start to see and in tastes those different flavor notes right like we could use sipping wine as such a good example right. If you go for wine tasting mhm the Somali as like you know. Let's talk about what notes you feel right now. Oh yes do you sense the chocolate or the cinnamon blockchain okay they go in. I wish you guys get to see the hand movements and their facial expressions that went along with that. I save them for the right moment so you know we it's the same idea we take that one day. One one meals gives me every day to eat in peace yeah then we give ourselves that moment to come back like you said you go on the balcony. You don't have your phone our like you're. You're disconnecting being from outside to reconnect with inside right. I don't WanNa fall. We need to do that and you know. I mean that goes to another another place which is self touch another part of the book yeah and get one touch yeah. It's really important and saying that I do when I'm working with. The people like in workshops or once one if they say I'm Mike Film pretty anxious. Okay keep telling me how anxious you feel as you tickle your forearm with your with your with your other hand okay and then as they're telling me I'll go. Do you feel your form is being tickled right now. Keep talking. Do you feel it and they're pretty much always always always like no. I hardly feel anything okay now. Stop talking for a second and just take take your mental resources and focus completely on how your forearm feels as you touch it and as you do that breathe into your belly from your nose. Just keep going stay there. Stay there. Stay there after one or two breaths they we always look up at me with this like sign of like. I saw the light just now own my God that was that was just me and my mind nothing else and my physical touch as well and that's where the power is and that's why physical touches well self touch is so key because because when we start to get into this idea like Whoa I can take my mind and my concentration where I choose to take it all of a sudden if our hiring Zaidi sky high and we choose to not let it stay there. The awakening has occurred and now from the awakening perspective. It's like okay so now. What am I gonNa do now that I know it's possible yeah and I just that part can be scary too though because then it's like. Oh wait shit now. I do actually have control over this and and now I know I can do something but like. Are you going to hold yourself to that and are you actually going to put that into action. <hes> yeah. I think for me reading through like the south touch part. I was just like the whole time I was just like well. Yeah like masturbation like that relieves a lot of anxiety and plays a huge part where they think getting to know your body and allowing yourself to feel pleasure that oftentimes as we're going through about the day it is all about <unk> out distraction detection distraction not to mention all the like shame and messages all the messages that you get about masturbating especially as the woman <hes> but where that can be so impactful for not just your body but like your mind and your soul yeah yeah yeah. I thought I thought that was very important. How the south touching there because I've noticed that people people find self touch is not a topic that you hear about mainstream and that a lot of people don't necessarily talk about anything I think for me even as an experienced it's you can literally feel that like anxiety just release and and it's like a big to me. It's like if you WANNA go out and you know GonNa Binge with your girlfriends and go wasted as a distraction to like sued and sabotage retired thinking you're soothing that anxiety I think doing something like helping night in and like exploring your body and having that like me time could be such a more productive fulfilling way to release that anxiety yeah. I know you in yeah I think if if feels good then and you're not hurting anyone including yourself then why not you know one person may may really get office big pun there by having a romantic live with themselves. Another person might get off by a making that epic smoothie bowl <hes> and like you know putting their feet beat up their comfy swap hands are going to town with that freshly freshly grated coconut on which would be my gm because I love coconut because he was talking about before we were going to really thing. I really think odds of value. I think the common denominator that we're both talking about is is finding the thing that will allow you to disconnect so you can come back to yourself and do something that makes you feel good. It makes you feel loved makes you feel appreciated gratitude for total wine all these things because all these things gratitude love appreciation. It's it's these are like anxieties enemy. <hes> you know yeah so do those things get into it. Enjoy uh-huh yeah yeah and and I want to kind of move forward a little bit to talking about like mind and soul as us as you say why not a little bit for me and I'm curious. If in your journey with kind of identifying these ways to own your anxiety if for you therapy was as an outlet to explore that component of the minds we're and I guess this all to tell you the truth. I didn't see a therapist <hes> in my younger years and all I found myself in the self help section of the book store. That was like my therapist yeah I just for whatever reason didn't even occur I heard a need to go and seek out help but rather would did occur to me is like okay the answers I'm looking for in the bookstore yeah it just enough who knows why and and and I found incredible solace in the self help section of the bookstore in fact so much that one day I was like like these humans have given me so much one day I would like to be able to return the favor and pay it forward to other humans uh-huh and in that moment I was like I'm going to be an author aged hit me. That truth is remained for over half my life this story that I assurance when I was about eighteen years old which wild yes so that being said some people would greatly benefit in way more profound way from a therapist from psychiatrists psychologists and medical a medical professional of some capacity acidy or a coach. Perhaps it really depends you know one of the things that I try to really make very very apparent and clear in the work that I do is that I am not a licensed healthcare professional. I share experiences based on what is worth for me and my anxiety and I also have have almost one hundred medical references in the book. <hes> I went through medical papers. I collaborate with different doctors and healthcare professionals however my opinions and my my thoughts like yes row. Autumn are data driven. I'm not a doctor so it's very important to understand that when they re my book when they hear me speak right. This is what works for me. Statistically it will probably were people says the data yeah I'd. I'm not here ever say like you know. Get off your medication and come listen asked me and it's definitely the first line of defense is always start with your GP and go from there yeah totally and I mean yeah same goes for me like I'm. I'm not a doctor and I have to correct people on that sometimes too because they're like oh yeah like you're a psychologist. I'm like no psychologist my therapist down-sizer <hes> <hes> being clear about that. I think is really important. <hes> and yeah. I think it's you really took autonomy on healing yourself off and it sounds like you felt like you had the the wherewithal and the tools to seek that on your own and I think sometimes for people when therapy becomes an option is where you feel like the tools aren't working or you feel like you don't have the resources for that kind of support <hes> <hes> and so that's very fitting that you would find it in books and then have that moment of wanting to give that back and and do that another piece that you spoke about within the mind that I thought was kind of along the lines of what we spoke about with the body of being very mindful. It's full was when you're rushing. Don't email or tax and I think even talking about all the distractions whatnot that we seek out and experience every day that often we even have like working lunches right. You're getting your Uber but you're sending an email or all these different things and when I read that I was like yeah I gotTa stop that like I gotta just be where I am and oftentimes when I am rushing in an sending that email that taxed something's missing. Something's not coming out right and it makes me feel way less clear yeah. I'm so glad you just brought this one tiller to be honest because a lot of people when they read this book they like skip over some of the ones that seem like so like all obviously yeah right right. They're looking for the way more like high level jeep. Oh my God. That's a breakthrough concept. Don't get me wrong baby breakthrough. I don't want to discredit my uh-huh. I'll take the Kudos but I love what you just said because imagine you're rushing. You're rushing Russia's. You already got that negative self-talk conversation going on. It's probably something like why is my life so hard. Wiser never enough time. Why did I decide to push that extra candidates in the shower. You know why'd I sleep in that an extra fifteen minutes whatever there's always something and then we go into that uber or we like rush and we Jaywalk is our head is down and we're looking at her phone. Whatever is doing were. We're not giving ourselves a chance to recenter instead. We're just we're just continuing continuing continuing and then we're adding. We're basically like if there's a fire and there's a little bit of a propane tank okay. We're just taking the probate adding more fire. Two or more were we're. I guess I should say to the fire because that that moment jumping in the uber that could have been a moment for you know ten seconds seconds thirty seconds a minute to take a breath and leave the phone in your pocket or your purse and just been like you know. I'm not a call center operator. This can wait a moment right the DM on my instinct can wait that responsiveness that I feel the need to get back to people in real time to comment that I can wait. I can't tell you the difference that I feel in my own self. When I take a break to hop in the Uber Breathe before I get back to work yeah you know or if I'm rushing not email in taxes that have been rushing to focus on the walk. <hes> MHM you know and what I love to play around with. This is kind of cool is developing the ability to still Russia. You are running late and rush but can you rush mindfully NFL. I Dunno yes. You can't next level and then just stop here. When it gets yes you can you can rush and you can still focus your breath from your nose to your belly? You can still give gratitude is part of of my whole methodology he can still they'll give gratitude. You can still smile even though you don't feel like smiling because you know that it will reduce the stress response. All these things can still happen as you trek trek through the airport as you head to that meeting it is possible. I will see how that goes this Friday when I'm traveling attempt to do that mindfully but I do kind of get myself a little bit a little bit of a mental break when I do travel because part of me feels like I have the excuse to be disconnected because it's like starting to catch a flight today that it's like you know yeah. I'm not going to stress myself out about responding to this email like you can wait. I'm traveling. Appaling totally will attempt if I am rushing. I will tell you that mindfully look nothing. Nothing beats giving yourself an extra half an hour an hour. Don't get me wrong saying if you're stuck in the rush yeah yeah yeah and this is my favorite part that came up when I was in the mind. Briand section of the book was dating smarter and I don't know if I'm allowed to ask you this and if you don't want to answer your out to answer but but you also you've recently had date right yeah some curious if you can share your comfortable what dating smarter looks like for L. for sure question so dating smarter. I think that a lot lot of dating culture puts a puts pressure so much pressure on ourselves we go in with all these expectations -tations of ourselves of date of how it should be how it should feel what happened after and the invitation Asian that I share in this book is that even when it comes to dating if we look at it as nothing more than an opportunity to have a genuine when human connection with another human releasing all thoughts about what the future may hold with this person or for yourself and your status Addis and literally you see because when we do that we we we know now that anxiety often lives in fear of the unknown <hes> right to talk talk to even think about dating for a second just thinking about what's going to happen next. Yeah could also create anxiety around dating. It's building these new neural pathways it all of a sudden it might not be so like warm fuzzy and fine when it comes to dating instead. It's like Oh man the pressure. I just don't have the energy yeah right so dating smarter is about looking at it for what it actually is a chance to connect with another human. That's it enjoy it yeah. What do you think it. That's it no yeah I mean. I I think in some ways I think I've definitely have had that approach and it's funny. I think in almost every are- other scenario outside of dating when it comes to meeting people I view it that way that I view it as just how beautiful is this that I have the connection with this other human men and that like wow it's the person actually enjoy and that I love I like how refreshing is that and other there. There aren't any of those expectations patients that pressure and I think when you do get to a certain point in your life <hes> I think the pressure at least for women and in some instances with wanting to family and whatnot that that that is something out of your control that that they're literally o'clock on that and many friends in early thirties and where they feel that pressure and they don't feel like they can date without without. I mean I say security. It's really a false sense of security because no one can really give you that security that that that will happen but have of having a belief that that could happen with that person that in order to even have the courage and the comfort to be vulnerable in dating the people want upfront security and that's where those expectations patient that's where that pressure comes from <hes> and granted I think even when you're not in your early thirties that that is still and there's not like the biological clock ticking a and that pressure. I think that those things still exist just because being vulnerable fucking terrifying yeah in of course we can want to find the right person like that's that's so natural and honest however. I don't think that that desire should be allowed to get in the way of the present moment of the date actually is yeah right and I mean I know a lot of people that want to qualify their dates. You know like why are you going to be a good parent. What your goals your values. Can you want how many kids you want. What do you want to and like that's a lot. It's a lot lot front for sure for sure now of someone's mind and they just don't don't even articulate or ask a question. It's good. It's good and it's true and it's honest. There's nothing wrong with wanting the family and wanting all these however if we see that by going there in our minds we you're going to potentially take away something that would genuinely and naturally happen otherwise by overthinking thinking the situation and thinking five steps into the future then while it might seem like in your rational logical mind. This is a good thing to do. What if it's actually doing the exact opposite yeah then we have to ask ourselves okay. What is my system. It's GonNa work for me. Yeah Yeah Yeah in a I mean I think that honestly segues us into the soul because part of what you touch on there is embracing where you're at uh-huh title I think plays a huge role and in dating and just overall in life sure yeah embracing where you're at. There's another a section in the book under the own your soul section and yeah. It's a powerful one. Why is it powerful because a lot of anxiety is is created through shame and it's great through self doubt and shame and self doubt sort of live in a place of not embracing racing where you are right now right Shane that I should be somewhere else. I should be doing something else. I should have a certain thing or or have reached a certain financial status or career job title by this time embracing where your ad though is is taking a different look at where we are in our lives and we're saying this is where I am. This is where I am right now. If I WANNA change that let's get clear on what change looks like right but the idea of I'm not enough. I'm not enough. I'm not enough if I should have been here by now. I should have been here by now. I should own this home or I should have this many kids partner and this is how my house she looked at it. It doesn't do anything but creating Zaidi yeah so embracing where we're at is like a very deep way of self love <hes> MHM right. We can start with self. Let's go get a massage. Yoga Meditate etc etc sure that's all great. Those are amazing important parts of self up but maybe the deepest form of self love is to actually just accept where you are and who you are and when that happens all of a sudden anxiety is way more more manageable and then you see this. I can talk about from personal experience. This is when we really start to love ourselves when we embrace as where we're at with eld apologies for where we're not line. was that for you <hes> <hes> let me put it this way okay in hindsight when I was like really in his own with my business my business I was still trying to do like a very serious sort of focus job on attracting the right partner okay. I really thought that I wanted to find a partner but I also knew that business was my top priority back then okay so my twenty s and I really cared about the business and I was finding myself going in and out of relationships and they were never really healthy like awesome loving inspiring relationships they were there were only a few months and there was a law hot and cold tens and then nothing and looking back. I realized that I wasn't embracing where I was at. I didn't actually crave a true relationship nations ship act. I I was really about the business today. I'm one hundred percent more focused on finding amazing partner and having a relationship nation ship with her and that's what I care about but I can embrace right. That's truly where I'm at and what does it mean to know or to. I'd say that's where I'm at it means that you're willing to shift your lifestyle and modify it and design it such that you can actually achieve increase increase the needed space to usher in the very thing that you were saying you are at right so I'm like at a place where I could like have a truly amazing meaningful relationship with a woman that might lead to marriage that you better believe apartment lysol needs. It's the shift metal police. I'm down for that <hes> seven years ago when I thought I was trying to find the right woman. I wasn't at that place so it didn't work and did you feel like you were shutting yourself then to the like of that pressure that like you just should have a partner because you're in your mid twenty <music> totally. I was I was I was putting a lot of pressure on myself. Wow there is so much pressure on me in the business world that I was just basically a heightening Zayed's in all aspects attempt to south sued but released off sabotage so when I was trying to be a good relationship engenders in the shame was like I should be working on my business. You'd be working my business when I was really in. The business was like dude you need. You need a part of your life. Come on discussing. All you do is work. Why don't you have a girlfriend exactly yeah on and on back for cycle cycle yeah so so embracing where you're not just a better relationship it could also mean if right now is the time for you to focus on your career and that's where you truly feel in alignment with then owner. Naby they go for it right or if like health is a huge priority right now right. Maybe you had a health scare for example apple or maybe you just feel like something's up. I gotTA shift my health. If you can get behind that decision to embrace is your health needs to change then you will do it with clarity and notch shame for what it is. You're giving up. Let me give very very relevant. Basic example example yeah a lot of people when they're younger you know in our generation. Partying is a big part of our social lives. You know colleges perpetuated waited frats perpetuated and we get into school and it's like you know you still do it on the weekends and maybe even during the week here and there but what what happens to a lot of people myself included that eventually you start to not want to live a life of party anymore but a lot of your closest friends or people you bond with wild partying embracing where you're at in this circumstance and this example is to say you you know what. I may love Joe. Steve in Bob or you know Margaret Sarah <hes> <hes> and Shannon Shannon's my girl. What's up okay. I May I may love these people. I am Greek Times that we had I mean they've been such fantastic experiences but who Taylor is going to be tomorrow or next year or who Julian's going to be in in five years from now. Just doesn't really connect anymore with those people who are ready for other fake names made up yeah okay so what does that mean so so now. Let's step further okay so imagine that I don't realize that the only backup imagine I do realize but I'm not willing to make the chain as I hang out with these people I'm. I'm constantly going to have an inner dialogue. That is telling myself. You shouldn't be here. This is not you. You're better than this. It's just not you anymore. I mean you don't like them him but it's not what you like for yourself right that is me waking up to where I am but non embracing very two distinct things <hes> and we ever since embracing when we Kim brace where we are. That's when the room for clarity and the room for inner alignment and inner peace all comes into play and from that I place the anxiety goes from owning us to associate yeah yeah and I think that was also a piece in I don't remember if it those in the minor if it was in the soul of like saying goodbye to toxic relationships and relationship selling don't serve you and yeah I think that was a great example of just I think life transition point that almost everyone can relate to of kind of like outgrowing your friends and feeling like like you're just on different paths and that's okay but of actually taking the step to acknowledge that and to <hes> really earliest embrace where you are that that would definitely relieve a lot of anxiety and that all those little mini internal battles that take up so much energy when you are around those people <hes> it's beautiful and we can just get get really clear and comfortable with okay. I'm going to remove the toxic things for my life yeah. I'm going to embrace where I am. It's an amazing thing that happens and so I wanna ask you as we wrap up. If there's anything specific Vick from the book or just a part of writing at that has been the most difficult for you to implement. WHOA big question the most difficult for me to implement the way like own. You're I totally. I'm with you. Let me think that's a really good question and I'm usually really not a fan of the really big like overarching questions like this one thing thing. 'cause I always get them and sometimes people just really are like Oh yeah. It was definitely this one thing so I opened it up to like. Maybe there was of the mind body soul categories. Maybe like if there's one of those sections that you felt like has been a lot more difficult to focus on for yourself or that you find yourself reflecting and focusing on a little bit more <hes> I got it okay. That's awesome. You gave me a really very relevant real time type thing okay so right now on this sort of press tour right and I'm meeting with all sorts of amazing people like yourself. Although I got to be one of my most fun and you know in this in this world of literally like jet-setting and you know a night in this hotel and night in Matt Hotel up at the crack dawn for this morning show you know and then and then you know do this later that day and then hop on a plane right after that and then host a meet up for ah for my fans like honestly the thing that is the most challenging for me is practicing many of the things in the book which are really about about self care right when you think about so the thing that I'm finding myself very challenged by two healthy challenged orange though but it saying that I have to be aware of is that I'm so passionate about service you the universe and I really want this book and this message to reach the masses however there is a finite amount of my energy yeah that I can can you know put out there so as I am being invited to go on more and more shows and whatnot right now. I need to be so hyper aware air of what's my actual bandwidth right so I'm getting to a place where it's like. I have to say no to a couple of people and I don't want to say no because you know this sort sort of like short term. Part of me is like no you can do this. You can do this. You know you'll just lose two hours asleep at night not a big deal but the more educated part of the more wise pardon me the the the same the same Julian who eleven years ago would say yeah fuck it. I'll have a red bull. Yeah all do a couple of lines. I'll do whatever I gotta what do three or four ESPRESSOS and a day doubles yeah. Why not all do what I have to do to stay awake see that person is gone. I still know how to get there. Don't get me wrong. Once we live that life we can snap our fingers. I can get that back right now but I know that's not who I wanna live in this world anymore so the hardest part is to find the separation between you know talk a good place. That's the thing usually it's like a higher place in this is all a good place yeah but I need to constantly check in and say your energy is finite. You know you can't do it all today. There will be more time kind of how we started our segment here. I know about the athlete who's like totally yet. You could always get your macario a little bad or you could always make your bicep a little bit stronger sure but at the risk of what so my biggest I challenge right now is that I need to constantly on. I'm not even kidding I constantly referring to my own book to keep me on check in check as I go on this path across the US and Canada right and one thing I wanted to say about that. It's so interesting you're saying when you're a creator and an artist and you put you know so much yourself into a body of work and then you give it to your editorial to`real team and you're publishing team for the do their thing and then you look at it again honestly sometimes. It's like these words. I just channeled yeah like I didn't even come up with them. I look at them and I'm like I'm learning from my own book like you know my autograph but I I'm like wow wow this is actually something that I forgot about. There's ninety nine tips in the book right there. There's at least one for everybody and even more so there's at least one in each of the three sections for everybody and even more so there could be ninety nine but the pressure is gone do them all its fireworks for you. It's a menu style offering so when I realized book I'm like Wow I forgot about that and that it's reminder that's I mean. That's almost how I feel about like journals like I'll go back and read some of them. I'm from usually I'll do it. Unlike anniversaries around like really critical and significant times in my life go back and I'll reread it and there will be something scene in there usually how I like to end all of my journals is on some kind of like a summary point and some kind of breath in a way something hopefuls and thin like encouraging for ending the note and usually at the end of that that are read something and then I'll be like. Oh Oh shit Taylor are really in it and that's like I gotta remember that like I'm glad I wrote that down because now I can like hold myself accountable people to that so I can on some level on a small level. See where looking at your at your book has been really impactful for you. It's the same idea journaling being my book a musician with with with the track totally yeah all these things and artists sculptor all these things. It's it's. It's it's a moment in time. Hi where we were at a certain place and then looking back and you know it can it can bring us back there but other times. It's also like wow I really was an artist. In that moment I was channeling something bigger than me and now I'm learning from that <hes>. It's wild to really wild when you think about it. <hes> there's personal growth personal reflection journey. It's all it has so many ups and downs and can be so difficult at times and I think that so many of the points that you listen the buck are really helpful for those periods of time but also for when you're in maintenance and focusing has been on that self care like you said I do feel like there is at least one point for every person and I think there are so many practical steps commit that literally on a daily basis and you could literally focus on like one week focusing on that one step yeah last year and a half totally and that actually was part of the intention is someone who's been in the personal growth space as as a student for over half my life. I've learned that one of the biggest challenges is aside from the dedication and commitment that when you get out of that book or you get out of that awesome conference he went to that workshop where your tribe you go bad back to your ways uh-huh and generally there is no tribe the tribe of the less evolved you <hes> that waits so when you want to make that positive is it of change or keep that positive momentum going. It's really hard so what I realized is that we need the basics. The basics are will keep us moving forward at right the basics become our day to day habits and eventually they habits just become our life and then. It's all like Oh man is she. It's exhausting. It's like this is just how I live at the other thing would be exhausting because I would have a hangover stomach ache BA fifty pounds overweight and and you know be flipping out of people all the time. That's way more exhausting their true very true so I wanted to give you the basics and that's why the books written like where Egypt the section of the one page or two pages. Just have the basics try and try. They try to try the tools if it works great. If it doesn't work for you that's okay too but then try the next what I be hard-pressed though if someone was like you know like the stop just like doesn't work for me. There's ninety nine. I think it will be yeah. You're right. It'd be impossible people. I'm like yeah you could benefit from all of them but but whatever really loudly right because because some people are like intimidate. I thought I'm not going to edit it out. No I think it's fantastic and I'm really happy that someone like you. Who is so invested in. Who is so passionate about this personal? Work is giving back in this way. I think will be very helpful for many any many people so if people do want to find you what where could they find June. Where could they find the book. Thanks for asking so the best bet would be my website. JULIAN JULIAN BRASS DOT COM and specifically for the book JILLIAN BRASS DOT com slash book and then my instagram at Jillian Bras. That is quite quite andy no white getting Jillian Bras grant was not easy yeah. It was another Jillian brass out there and I had out to to buy it from them. Wow Yeah I mean you. GotTa do what you gotTa do. There's definitely a lot of Taylor Nolan's out there but I go with Tame. Ohka because not because I'm Brown. That's what most people think it's because of by MOCHA was my first cat yeah. Her name was Mocha Joe and it was like like my I e mail actually <hes> when I lived in the apartment literally block in front of me alimentary school and yeah it was like we have a computer and my Stepdad was like what are your email to be and I was like what's going to be like my name and Mocha's name me and Mocha Joe and so I was like Tae Hey Mocha love it and say it's just been like somewhat of a nickname slash like my email and then my my space and Yeah I love I love your instagram. Period looks awesome really great work. Thanks so it's nice to be here. Yeah thank you so much for being here. <HES> <HES> and I hope you enjoy the rest of your time in Seattle and I'm really glad we got to do this. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you and thank everyone who listened to this. I hope you guys got a lot from it. It's my honor to be here all right well. That does it for today. Thank you again Julian and thank you guys for making all the way through this episode. I'm if you haven't yet already I would love love love to read a review from you guys if you can head on over to itunes after this and leaves star rating or just review a sentence or two to let me know what you're talking about the show <hes> and we'll be back next week talking more things took a lot away from this <hes> and check out the book in that sewed notes to really just learn how to better dealings. Id because we all deal with it on on some level so again. Thank you guys so much for your support of the podcast and have there's have a wonderful week. This podcast is brought to you by we've podcasts networks check out all of our shows including the brain candy podcasts coffee condos and let's talk about.

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The Bitcoin Podcast #236: Ronnie Moas

The Bitcoin Podcast

1:18:42 hr | 2 years ago

The Bitcoin Podcast #236: Ronnie Moas

"Now entering. Podcast our. Welcome to the pig. Will catch us deep like? Chains. Guys talking. Three bickering broadcasts and say, Dobson still only. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the bitcoin podcast. This is number two hundred thirty six and I am your first house Marcello, and I'm host number two D, And I'm hosting three. Gotta Corey petty on host guest Ray redacted. Yeah. So we're gonna bring you on because this episode you were a part of for the interview. And since we're kind of changing the format of the show specifically for this. Doozy of an interview figure bring you on to provide a little commentary outside Doug about our our fifth guest hosts fifth guests. Cello snips. We are six guest host was cold air conditioning. It'd be a party. Cello is cello is shirtless in Texas because you can do that. They're for some reason, it is a seventy one degrees. So that's how my winner Christmas was going. All right. So I don't wanna do this. Let's see how how much how much do you wanna talk on the front end because as good amount of people who are listening to this episode who never have listened to us before specifically to hear this interview. Well, I guess I can start because I'm the one acquired this particular guest. And I think this is almost like a what's up this particular individuals at eighty Agassi. Oh, yeah. It's almost like a PSA because it's it's very difficult in the space to kind of separate the flowers from the weeds because all you can do you have a white paper. You get a spokesman. And then you get like a hundred thousand dollars, and then you can represent a company lied to the public. And then there you go you have crypto scam operation. So no one thought that Ronnie who was a stock analyst for twenty years with someone like this. They thought it was somebody that you could trust and people pay money to this guy serious money like thousand dollars to receive tips in I don't even know if it's inside trading tips about stocks crypto, and you get newsletters and his nine you can't we can't read to be very careful. We say things I didn't know if inside trading laws has bled over into crypto. But I mean, if you're getting about krypton stocks what's the difference it hasn't, but it's taboo in him. We can't even say inside treaty provides provides analysis on various things, and then his subscribers basically get that analysis and make decisions based on what he recommends that by in various markets. You know, he he splits those across multiple markets, and then 'cause 'cause ideas. About how much money to put in that particular bucket rela to all things things that bug as an investment subscribership. Now, I don't support these types of things. But like that it's as let's simplify for twenty teen. He's investment influence. He has influence on investments because he at one point time did a lot of research and people bought into that research. And now if he says, hey, go by Golders, a large likelihood that people that's the scribe to we're going to go buy gold or whatever he recommend. So he's a investment influence her and a little bit more. So than a public figure because a Ronnie has between fifteen hundred and three thousand subscribers that pay three thousand dollars a year. And when you pay a lot of money for service, you're more likely to take that advice. There's a difference between him giving you tips and tricks. I think the this drama is rounding he was paid to fill a scam coin which was dig that's debts. That's like propose as scandal that people are accusing him of. And there's a lot of back and forth on whether or not that was actually true. And we we wanted to bring him on to get his side of the story while also asking like reasonable questions. Someone would ask that's involved in such an accusation. And I just want to clarify that Marcello. I actually wouldn't go that are I actually think that he has a very loyal base had a could credibly successful pick actor somewhere between eighteen and forty percent outperforming the crypto market if you used his pin, but he pushed this one really really really hard mentioning it on Twitter three hundred seventy eight times in a period of seven months talking. About it on every interview he went on to the point where podcast hosts recalling Mr. dignity coin posting pictures of alleged data centers. And so a lot of the things that people said this doesn't smell right? The idea that there's a vault in Bermuda with fifteen billion dollars goal doesn't snow right. A lot of that was kind of overcome by the fact that it had this massive what would almost call celebrity endorsement so to speak based on how he was kinda talking about it. And like you said earlier when you're paying that much money. You assume a certain level of due diligence. From advice coming to you. And for my opinion, and I'm not gonna spend too much time talking about this on the front end that assumption is retarded based. And if you bring that up we cover that interview, he's going to tell you I can't do my diligence because I work seven town. Let's let's let's let's not put too much of a lens or bias on the interview and let it speaks for it self. Okay. Well, when further do go fuck, no he. All right. Hey robotic this week. Our guest is Ronnie of standpoint research top twenty ranking in his industry. He's an expert in the stock market wells. He's very familiar with the crypto market, of course, little background. He kinda puts out notes on a daily basis his subscribers, which includes, you know, crypto recommendation. So I was -ly, you know, people pay you up front depending on what level of service they want. And then you provide your business model in the form of expertise. Rodney you've had a week, and that's putting it lightly. You know, you're you're no stronger stranger going viral with your bitcoin price targets on so forth. But. Maybe year of I was just lightly. That was. Yeah. But it was this past week that kind of a lot of attention in wanted to bring you on the show. And you know, we wanted to give you an opportunity to kinda explain your own words, the events that transpired. So I gave you introduction Cairo wanna give you the floor. Perhaps you can give you our listeners a quick overview on who you are. And what's been going on? Like, you said I haven't top twenty Anqing versus forty seven hundred people in stock market for my performance, the last twenty less ten years, I've put up more than seven hundred recommendations every one of them was time stamped in today by this three different news wires, including Dow Jones and Bloomberg I've given more than one hundred television newspaper radio and magazine interviews, and I've been headlight speaker conferences around the world, I have forty five thousand people following me on Twitter and the few hundred of them eight my guts. All right. S quite the resume. You got there. I mean, the elephants in the room why do those few hundred guts while? You know, let's just say, for example. Let's just take the Bunge aims, for example. Okay. The basketball there. Everyone knows he is. If he was going to make his political views public, his jersey sounds would drop by fifteen percent overnight. Depending on which sidings taking and that is the way a lot of people with big followings on social media. And celebrities are cowards. They are afraid to speak out on behalf of those who have no voice, they are afraid to take a stand on political issues because they're afraid that it will cost them money. I am not that. What if I lose half my business? That's okay. At the end of the day. I speak out on behalf of people that have no voice. And if I feel something needs to be spoken, I speak without making a financial determination on whether it makes sense, you know, not. Mostly Jewish Israeli liberal outspoken, and I've been putting out recommendation just in the last seven months, so a lot of people are looking for punching bag and someone to take frustration out. And I am an easy target. Yeah. But Ronnie this is right. By the way, the reason that people are mad at you is not because of your political views or because you're Jewish liberal. I'm sure there's a couple are. But let's really face the stellar research reputation that you guys have had for years. It's not no, no, it's not we tied up. So that reputation which was absolutely stellar has been somewhat questioned in the last couple of weeks because for the last year. So you've been telling us the dignity coin was an absolute winner, and that you had to diligence and you had Bermuda and everything else. And now it's very difficult for people who entrusted you with that information to hear that that was not actually the case. Do you have a one hundred percent? Oh, not even close. Not even. Bless. So is it. Okay. That I make a mistake of once in a while it absolutely is. I think you're early beat up getting fairly could you not have been sucked into a situation that made it to the flow of the immune apartment and had a thousand people on their board of directors. I visited the facilities mantha Toronto. I went to Los Angeles. I spoke with the c o four hours person on the fourth of November. When the fifteen hundred text messages phone calls emails, what's up messages and richer eighteen months, but when sure but with my swing main contact on not telling me, what their real names are. That's a firm, and I know, and I just found out in the last two weeks that Jamie Goldbach is James legal who had a work history that included five. Firms that got shut down by FINRA. I found out that Stephen Braverman with V was really Stephen ph. Lance Braverman also was refined firms gut shutdown by FINRA, I found out. That Tom rank is not really taught monk his name is Tom Carter on he's Jamie Goldberg's plot and he was just charged by the SEC on the twentieth of September with securities or CASA Blanca mining get run. It's unraveling. We understand it's unraveling. I get it. And nobody's blaming you for being wrong on a call. I think anyone would love to have your track record of good calls. What my point was was that your subscribers are upset because they saw you as impervious to this kind of scam. Okay. They saw you as being from the normal stock market and a little bit more. I don't know who you're I don't know who you're survey. Okay. I have three thousand subscribers I have three hundred or two hundred people that are making a lot of noise. But was they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. You're talking about five ten five to ten percent of my subscribers complaining a lot of the complaints. You're seeing a from people who are not even subscribers of mine. They piggyback off of this dig recommendations on Twitter, and they did not get the one hundred pages that I wrote on this name during the course of the last year. Okay. All right. That's fair. That's fair criticism. But I'm trying to point out is that fact, but I've been I actually remember last year when somebody had said is a scam. I remember you said this couldn't be a scam 'cause they spent millions and it only costs forty thousand pull up scab. Do you remember saying that -absolutely I just found out today? You know, I read the white people seventeen months ago. Do you think I remember every word that was in that? Forty fifty page white paper. Yeah. But runny it says in the paper that the investors are paying for mining equipment. That belongs to them. Not investors. That's a pretty big miss. I'm sorry. What did you say? The part of the white paper that you brought attention to today was I missed this passage in there where they said that the owner is not that I missed it read it seventeen months ago and s Jamie Goldberg several times in recent months, where are you coming up with the money to pay for the mining equipment for the golden heads for Mandola for the facility in Toronto. And he says we have high net worth investors. That are backing us. Okay. Now is that it wasn't there probably warrant high net worth individuals. That will backing them. I realize now that it was my subscribers that paid for all of this equipment, and they probably are not out of pocket at all. In fact, not only did they help themselves to the money might sue. Subscribers bought the did with I need an investigation to take place to find out whether they were helping themselves to that piggy-bank on live on that they will managing the stem. I worked seventeen hours a day seven days a week. I have seventy five open recommendations right now in crypto and in the stock market. I have all websites. I haven't even had time to update. So of them it three years, I have many charities that I support I can't do background checks on every single person at every single company that back. And people have to take responsibility for their own actions are people not to put more than one to two percent of their net worth into this name. But they to me. Hey, Surani Sascha totally different question. Because on Tuesday, you said that when they originally report came out there was an eighty thousand dollars fee, and they tried to pay you in tokens. Yes. And you said I can't take those tokens that would be a conflict of interest. I don't want to deal with the conflict of interest in the token payment. Then you then you took forty thousand of in tokens and thousand in cash eighty thousand conflict of interest, but forty thousand isn't you it's all it's all the way people perceive it if they gave me eight thousand dollars cash, I could've what eighty thousand dollars worth of u n y the next day. Right. So you splitting hairs I in twenty years. I took money for one company, and I didn't even attach recommendation to it. The the I was the second time in twenty years that I agreed to take payments, and it was not I will not selling them a viral relation. And I was not putting that report out to the public. They asked me to write a report that would be used for their internal use and their internal use exclusively. I might to reserve the right to share this with my subscribers. If I see this going in the direction that you told me that it is going it collected dust on my shelf, seven months and then on the eighth of February. I saw this name move eleven hundred percent in one day. Two tenths of a cent to two point four cents on five hundred thousand dollars volume, and I said a whole ship. Something is going on here. This could be the best idea. I hadn't twenty years, and I'm sitting on it and very pump Ilori pump bigger. Let me finish site had an impulsivity action to share the report with my subscribers. The company was completely blindsided by this. I know that I was putting the report out, and I told my subscribers listen, I haven't in that sitting on for seven months. I don't have everything that I need in order to put my step of approval on it. But I'm afraid that if you wait until I get everything that the company is promising Nate that I've been waiting for. It's gonna cost you ten twenty times more money to get in versus. If you go in today when there was still some risk uncertainty involved anybody that thinks that I would recommend the name to my subscribers that I didn't. Believe in a hundred percent either doesn't know why am whether it be to get their head examined that was less than five percents of my annual revenues last year. And it's already cost me between one and three million dollars. You're today direct and indirect damages running that. Minute. I posted a sweet shot yesterday at eleven thirty at night showing three million in Mike would folio. I am cracking down really hard on them right now because of information that kids and should just in the last two weeks. I know that they're getting ready to pump this up on major exchanges. And my three million position is gonna be worth a million and a half or two million dollars. If I remain silent. But I said, no, I am not gonna make a dime off of this. I have received disturbing information on this Arba Nate that borders on criminal behavior. And I am not going to stop until they wiped out, even if it means my three million position the comes worthless. I will not let the pump this up to twenty thirty forty thousand people on other exchanges and add those to the list of mice sliders. So I'm gonna back up a second. So you're saying that the February pump. That came out of nowhere. And was completely unexplained was the reason that you decided to get the word out to your subscribers and further pumped up another four five ax. Is that right? I told you. I didn't try to anything. I would treat. The reason I release the paper the catalyst that question to take. This report office health after seven months was seeing it move eleven hundred percent in one day. I felt that that was inside of by and decided within a few minutes to jump on it. But was I was afraid it went away for me. And for my subscribers. I. I had something that I was going to help my subscribers and I decided not to keep myself. So you saw an insider by or what you thought was an insider occurred to you to call them and ask them about your our, no. Doesn't that kind of put you in an awkward position legally? What are you talking about? If you saw what you thought was an insider by and you decided that your subscriber base that pays you thousand a year. It doesn't side of someone someone who something could have been anyone could have been dozens of people. It could have been someone from inside the company it could've been a friend or relative someone company. All I know is I saw this thing trade hundred thousand dollars in one day they jumped eleven hundred percent, and I. Right heavily on it. Have you in your twenties or career have you ever been misled or threaten implicitly the way they are treating you right now? 'cause I'm looking at you like, you're definitely the victim the situation pro-style situation I've ever been in my life. I am a hundred percent innocent. I have I'm upset. I was lied to. I was misled I was taken advantage of I was taken for granted. And they basically use me as a pawn in what looks to me to be Willie supposed to scam operation. Okay. Everything that I out twenty seventh of November. I bought four hundred forty thousand of this up until two weeks ago. I still thought this was legitimate. But a lot of information at landed on my lap in the last two weeks, and I decided to flip seventy five percent confidence level a hundred eighty degrees to a twenty five percent confidence level. They're not answering my questions instead of apologizing for misleading me, which add it which cost me mislead my subscribers and instead of answering all of the questions that they'd been avoiding they've gotten we implicitly and explicitly sweet different times three different people with legal action. And I told them to go up themselves. They hit me with a cease and desist better yesterday. And I completely ignored it. I am not going to stop until these people get shut down and thrown in jail, and I've already spotted speaking with law firms regarding a class action lawsuit. Are you able to comment on the fourth person involving those James Troy, Stephen of Qena, fourth parson is his name is I know him as Tom T O M are all indicate what I knew about him. Jamie Goldberg told me that was his partner in the Walker oughta fischel intelligence system W O P R top monk. I met him at Jimmy six million dollar house a few months ago. I don't know where he came up with the money to end up in a six million dollar house. It was six months ago. He was a three thousand dollars a month rental. But I met Jamie at this six million dollar house top was there. Jamie told me this guy is amazing. He spent years building this oughta fischel intelligence system that has a amazing track record. He poured millions of dollars of his own money into it. And he has to be involved in a business partnership with Harvey Pitt who was the SEC chairman. How could you get any more legitimate than that, do you know what I found out that sleek? Tom rocks meal? Name is Thomas KADO rump as he was charged on the twenty eighth of September with securities fraud. Causa Blanca minding, they also slapped with a charge of misrepresenting, the officer intelligence system that he's been trying to sell and what the tracker this for the system and the company never told me about trout most SEC jaw. They never told me about the fact that steam Braverman had five. Mate that. They told me about the five firms that James Lee Goldberg had on his vocal check report that were expelled by FINRA. They've been stringing me along for seventeen months, and it didn't I didn't I didn't realize until a few weeks ago. What was actually going on? I never heard of this team. Yup. None of this came up when you're on the eighty thousand dollar due diligence report. Right. None of this thing. I think I got an eleven different legal offenses that you just rattled off their came. What happened is the first time, I met, Jamie. He started the conversation by saying I want to get something right off the bat. I do have a state on my resume, and it's from thirty years ago. And I said, okay, it wasn't a deal breaker for me. And I took him at his word, and I never did a for the background check on him. I didn't even know that his name was James lead Goldberg until this morning. Well, what was the stain? If somebody told me they have one thing on the record. I would definitely want to know what the state is. It was no he told me what the stain was. It was something that was really really widespread back in the nineteen eighties early nineties when there was not a lot of regulation at Boca's returning client accounts. And and and. You know, Monday like they would hear that big whatever's coming in and they would jump in front of that. It was something related to the business. But he told me had one stain and it was from thirty years ago. He did. Any chance is there any chance whatsoever? That these guys were front running you on the February pump because they knew you were gonna put this report out. Absolutely not completely blindsided by report completely. A thousand percent it completely. I'm a hundred percent sure. They had no idea. It was coming. All right. But I'm so my question let me go back to the eleven criminal offensive thing. None of that came up ever before two years ago. This is only in the last two weeks that this has been been made apparent right? You know, they Steve James and Troy, very charming people. Okay. Trumping away like Donald Trump is charming. Okay. And all three of them won me over, you know, they said, we'll all Jewish people who often the same tribe. You know, we love what you're doing. And Steve told me he had a thirty five year. Track record in in the trait a traitor thirty five years, and he never I never did a background check on him. I didn't even know until a week or two ago that his we all name is Stephen Lance favorite, and I trusted it. I've never done background checks on anyone in twenty years. I don't have time to do that my subscribers expect of name for me every week. Most of the names are generated by one hundred fifty five variable computer model that took me five years to develop back in the nineteen nineties. Okay. So my whole point is that I don't have the time to do background checks on people. If I give you fifty names during the course of the year. I two percent of your money into each of those names and one of them goes to zero you won't even notice. I agree. You know? Nobody's stopping you. From getting a second opinion on a name that I'm giving you I never claim to cover all the bases in any of the reports that I write. He's telling to put more than two percent of your money in a name. I explicitly told you not to put more than two percent of your money into. I wanna I'm in for a second year. You give us fifty names. And you want us to two percent that each of them than you want us to do one hundred percent of our money with what you recommending. No, you're taking what I said out of context if you have colors. Okay. What I recommend to you is that you slip that million dollars. Of course. Stocks cash bonds gold, silver art in crypto, and we'll state that's eight asset classes, so you're not gonna put more than ten to twenty percent of your money in any one of those groups if you decide to put twenty percent of your money on quip though, and I give you fifty crypto names, you're putting zero point four percent of your net worth into each of those fifty names as just wanted to clear that that, but but running you have said that. Over and over for years and years and years, however on dignity, you were pumping them harder than in the other even. Me. Stop using the word pumping. What the fuck? Okay. I won't use. I won't use. I work. I don't mean to offend you. I heard you use it before you were saying Saint context, would you? Would you use you talked about now? Go fuck yourself. And the interview a go fuck yourself. That was so that was interview if you can call it that with Ronnie Moaz, do we need a minute to recover our feelings hurt. We good. I'll be right back. I went to myself. I wasn't a part of this interview. And I was clearly listened to it based on like what was said. And how things went down because we had to evaluate whether or not we wanna publish this type of stuff or like push this type of narrative of the podcast. But like, I'm I guess I'd say, I'm more. I'm more critical than most in terms of what the things we should say. She had say, whatever. Yeah. And the questions that went down during that interview because you know, Ray was kind of wondering whether or not he pushed it a little too hard so on and so forth. They were not hard questions. Like, none of it was any question that isn't perfectly reasonable based on the situation that people are being accused of none of it and his inability to answer any of it. And and replace it with non sequiturs like just ridiculous that may have nothing to do with what we're talking about. He was it was one of the most childish interviews. I've ever seen. Gene in and it's like really hard for me to understand how people can wait. Let me finish. Yeah. I it's it was ridiculous. And I don't understand how people don't see that. When he with people. Well, that's the new style of. These these microphone is apparently not fixed. So Ray, you're still here. Why don't we like give us like what you would say? Like the timeline for those who don't understand what's going on. They're not like crazy dwellers massive amount of people who are following this in tweets us, and so on and so forth. Just by way back on guys. Ronnie has company called standpoint research that has somewhere between fifteen hundred and three thousand subscribers pay three thousand dollars a year. So that's basically four and a half million to nine million in subscriber revenue according to his own figures. Right. One of the things it's fascinating about people that charged for their crypto picks is that they're loyalists and their subscribers tend to be fiercely loyal right fiercely defensive because once you've actually invested that kind of money yourself. You don't want your guy to be raw while it turns out that until dignity coin. Ronnie was actually write a lot. Okay. So he had a fifty crypto spreadsheet that if you picked only those fifty straight up his fifty favorites you would outperform the market significantly until probably in the last few months, set a speak. So again, he would always say that anything. That wasn't on. This fifty list is total shit coin. Absolutely. No all projects are worthwhile. Unless they're on the spreadsheet, which was also kinda questionable thing. But that's that's neither here nor there. Right. So anyway, so his fiercely loyal followers, and he came out of kind of out of nowhere in February February ninth right after the February pump and started saying, this is the winner. This is the winner. He tweeted about it a little bit over three hundred seventy times he mentioned it on every single podcast. He went on. He posted pictures of their land data center and talked about how he was tight with their board of directors was having three and four hour meetings with people Bermuda as part of this claim that they had gold bullion to back up fifteen billion dollars investment. Are you with me so far Corey it's all reasonable. So there were some red flags and occasionally people would pop up in say things like how can there be fifteen billion dollars in volt in Bermuda? Without? Significant security force. Why have we not seen a building with three hundred policemen? That's that's a quivalent of about fifteen percent of what's important knocks. So we might think that you might have like an army or something guarding it. It was always put off very very defensively if you questioned any of the underlying premises, you immediately blocked on Twitter kind of blackballed, you know, unread it everywhere. I am now I'm not blackballed for Santic's anything whatsoever about this. By the way. He didn't. He didn't block. The main podcast. Thought was interesting may be easy. I was just like guys I'm objective here. This is this is absurd. He hasn't blocked me yet. But I'm pretty sure by the time that this. Anyway. So fiercely loyal folks now people bought into dignity coin heaven, I mean, they bought him really really really happy. So one point it was a fraction of a penny. This February eighth inexplicable pump that went up eleven hundred percent was the reason that Ronnie claims that he decided and this again is his words that there was an insider activity going on or somebody new something. So rather than pick up the phone and call his customer who paid him in Tokyo. I should tell you paid him half tokens having cash he decided I'm going to send this out to my three thousand paid subscribers and tell them I haven't quite cooked this yet because I don't have time. But this could be the biggest winner of the century. So better get it in your hands now, and they omediate -ly ran it up. So the second that ill went out it went viral because he'd never really pushed one before there was. Certainly no mention of the fact that he would being paid and tokens which actually to me that's not that big of a deal. I think most people that consultant ICO's are probably paid in tokens and know that it but as. The only thing that was weird about the paid in tokens thing is it on Tuesday. He said they tried to pay me in tokens in U N Y, which became the idea later, they tried to pay me in tokens, and I told him now any cash so you can give me eighty thousand cash because I don't have a conflict of interest. So I can't have a conflict of interests because one day I might recommend this coin. So it needs to be all right? And they said, well, what if you half they said, okay, that's fine. So my question was was if forty thousand eighty thousand tokens accomplished of interest, why is forty thousand not was against that. And it was immediately just like ignored. There is his answer the answer. It depends on your perspective. That was answer. I think we can all agree that nothing was ever answered this. And here's what I here's what I the one of the things that really caught a red flag with because based on the circumstances that I understand across this all of this. He could be. One hundred percents. Will you could have been had he could have been hoodwinked by this company and taken advantage of because he has this this very loyal massive following right from that from the perspective, and there's an, but he said, I'm one guy. I have all of these things I've been doing all these things for so long. I have four websites. I have all these followers do pick a week the all this. He's just pro like prolifically doing all of these things. I don't have time. I'm a one, man. Bam. You said you said your team are y'all or immediately corrected you with? It's just me now hours a day hours day making that much money and doing all of these things that providing investment advice from other people in you're not hiring help especially when you're continuously building something and and talking about a single project, and you don't do any due diligence on those people and you just trust them. I met him once talked to him for a couple of hours. I really liked him. He said he had a pass in. I asked him about it. You said it was really an SEC. Trust them. If you're doing that, your do diligence process with that amount of money, and you're not hiring outside of it. Because you're too busy who is investing in this person. Like. Do process. Professional like, that's the most ridiculous level of professionalism. I've ever heard of and my entire life. And it's in my opinion, one hundred percent, not true. He's playing victim. It's it's easy to say. It's like, it's just me. I don't have time for this. My listeners have to. I'm you know, I'm hurting because I'm doing so much good. And. She is by the way, just shit like you have to have to take responsibility for things you're doing. And if you're being. Dollars you pay someone when when there's millions on the line. Working fifteen hours a day seven days a week, though, that's a choice, and it's bad choice shit. What choices? But no, I'm backing up your point. If you can't do your do diligence because you're working seventeen hours a day seven days a week. That's that's a choice that you're making. And it's negatively impacting your subscribers subscribers. They're thinking that past performance as an indicator of future returns going by his success record of twenty years and all that but paying three thousand dollars for certain level of professionalism that your tap into your tapping into his his supposed-, wisdom and ability to do diligence that you can't do he's not doing any of is displaying with like open arms. I don't do diligence. Petty. I think unfortunately, we're going to be seeing more of these in the future. This is the probably the first of many of these the reason why he was this. This is so big and opinion. Like why it was so easy for him to be hoodwinked? If you was or just be a part of this is that like he jumped into a market he was not prepared for the the volatility and shadiness of this naive. Crypto market is way, bigger than the regulated, you know security sees used to and there are way more people may be don't know that are willing to go through a lot of more ridiculous things to try and take advantage of others in this market because it's not regulated yet. So, but the reason I want to that is because I think there are some pretty big lessons here. And I'm again, I'm implying naievety, not not malice. Right. I don't really which one's which. But if somebody told you at a job interview at your job. Hey, listen. I might have a little felony on my record during the interview process. Wouldn't you go look them up and see what it wasn't a backup? If they had five of them or one of them. I mean, don't our flag wildcard baby. Let it roll. Okay. I also something else. I really really appreciate it. I don't remember the names that he said, but I'm gonna give you an example. He told me his name was with was Tom Smith and actuality his name was Thomas case Smith, and you have this many records on his foot. You mean like that's not crazy that he just used his his full name. And he told you the Monica that goes by a regular basis like like, he wasn't hoodwinking you with with name-change fucking break. Okay. The other part of the store that gets a little bit funny. When it started to unravel seven or eight months ago, people would bring this to him, and he would get very very very mad at them. Whether it was on Twitter or in the press or even even on a radio interview. He would say things like this can't possibly be a scam because scam only costs forty thousand dollars, and these guys spent two hundred million, and I always thought that logic was a little funny that logic is like saying Ron Goldman could be dead from twenty two stabs because it only takes one stab kill somebody or whatever and dignity coin might turn out to be a big huge scam. Right. It might turn out to be one. It probably in the grand scheme of things may not even be the biggest one, right? They we had a couple of guys dressed in nice suits who were obviously chums with some people in Bermuda making wildly outlandish claims about gold bullion being backed up. I mean, really really really, well, beggars belief to even think that somebody would have that kind of gold and also that they would tell you. They did. Right. But a lot of people were falling for it and tell you right now, if you look at Witter there's still a ton of people that stand by dignity coin and Ronnie MO as purposely trying to to dump it now. So they can buy up even more because you to further complicate things he was behind new dignity coins. As recently as last week. He said the last two weeks it was under severe concern. Okay. But he made a buy recommendation on December fifth in the middle of thinking that all of this is unraveling in its criminals, he was not only planning it. But he was also saying this is not a scam. So it gets a little bit dicey towards some of the details in the analogy around it. But what really really is important the most important part of the story really focus on is that February eighth day because according to Ronnie's testimony on the interview just listen to he woke up on February eight having not spoken to anyone that this company for a year and saw there they were pumping. Eleven hundred percent k on volume of a half. Go fuck yourself. Go. Fuck yourself. Go. So this season stock analyst with an impeccable track record has a due diligence report that he wrote for them not for his customers. He wrote it for them as a paid product that they paid him for and he gets up on February eighth and says, wow, I remember that coin I looked at that point, you know, eight months ago nine months ago. Why wonder why it suddenly up eleven hundred percent? You know, the best thing for me to do at this point in time is rather than call my customer who paid me eighty thousand dollars and asked forty W up right now, I'm going to instead tell my subscribers. Hey, this is half baked, but I spent a lot of time on it did a lot of diligence because I did this report a hundred pages about this one in if you get on a quick than than take for you to miss out on the fuel professional. That's a common theme amongst people that have his business model towards success as if. He played both sides of the fence. And you make a great enough whenever it comes time for the rubber to meet the road. You can always go whichever direction ends up you with you being. Okay. You've late yourself with enough positive and negative. I mean, that's what they do this. They don't use very perfect. They don't use precise language when they're talking about different assets in they us just vague enough terms. So that if something goes south, there Maclear something goes north, and they make a lot of people a lot of money than their the saving grace in the in the sage very tell everyone he told everyone over and over and over don't invest more than two percent of your money in. This is the biggest winner of all time. It's the biggest one of all time. That's that's viable thing. Even we do that on our show hashtag, no investment advice has drawn. Hashtag investment advice. Right. Like don't do this. Or you're gonna fuck yourself. But I can talk myself like. On Twitter right now. So there are a lot of dignity coin loyalists who stand completely by dignity coin and say this is just completely false. This is this is bad. There's another group of people that say, I invested my my grandmother, and my mother's houses, and we put every single thing into this. And we're going to be completely wiped out by it. And we can't believe that. And and, you know, a lot of really bad sob stories, and then you also still have a lot of Ronnie loyalists that are fiercely defending him and saying, you know, we we stand by no matter what. And you're seeing a lot of those because Ronnie himself seems to be posting a lot of those a lot of fries there's a tremendous amount of fanaticism. And and when when it comes with money, it's like. Interesting to see which army you decide you're going to be on. There's a point to bring up is like should you follow somebody who's so emotionally driven nowadays? The reason why this whole topic was brought to us is because there were traces of suicide or depression in his tweets, and he was kind of going off the rails with emotionally motivated messages. It was posted a slack as well. There's a people who the Mago say he is one of those people. But there are there's a type of people that will appeal to a motions because they know it works. It's incredibly effective. It's a if you can appeal to emotions affectively, then you can gain a following very fanatic following variously. You weren't super conference last year. So you saw the keynote was all about feeding the poor. Right. Did you guys see that? I didn't watch any of the headliners because I don't support any of them the conference. Okay. But Ronnie's big part of his talk, and I'm not gonna say stick because I think it's legitimate is he has a feed the poor charity, and he constantly talks about how income inequality in the rest of the world needs to be I crypto redistribution of wealth and by giving to charities including his own chairs. Right. So by definition, if you're part of the the I'm not gonna say the Colt, if you're part of the following, there's a huge part of you inside that psychologically thinks that you're also doing good. This isn't just about your own greed. You're also very much supporting these villages in Africa and things like that that sure whatever that's true. I mean, it's like, I know I know that people will say those types of things in order to build that emotional like sentiment like he he's he's very good at making money. At how he does it. I'm not sure I do know he's very good at making money. I do know based on based on that last interview. And that's just if you take only that context and his inability to answer questions, he's either one of two things very good at lying and playing victim or incredibly incapable of doing diligence on at the level supposed to be anybody who looks like Wilson Fisk is gonna make money. Okay. So let me get back to the February. February happens the give it. Yeah. Okay. The thing happens on February eight, and it goes out to the subscribers and immediately causes a huge amount of attention to come on this project because it is now being talked about in read it it's now being talked about crypto, it's blowing up Twitter. And in response. The company says we don't feel comfortable having this many people look at our assets and asking us questions we feel like this pension for us. I didn't notice that that area reason why is because they felt like Ronnie's work product was their property, right? They paid for it. Their quest and landing we're not prepared to show any proof. And this is what this is this is more relevant to other projects than it is to this one because the irony about all coin crypto is that you can get away with more if you don't ship product than once you actually shipped the products because once you ship the product people are gonna check your math. They're gonna take the by ability. They're going to look at the test net. And all those other types of things. So they were not prepared to be able to deliver on some of the things that they had told him seven months before they would be delivering by Razzie tremendous amount of of of of the crypto like they're seeing you're seeing a lot of that right now people were not able to winner's getting a little deeper, right? I don't mean to be skeptical about it. But when things get a little hairy. That's when businesses tend to shake out, you know, the scams kind of sin start to turn out of the woodwork. So to speak, right. So at any rate, so this all this attention comes in right? And on the very very very frontline of defending this project was running. So he was standing in front of it and standing by it because he told his customers subscribers that and he stood by until as recently as December fifth of this year. Let me make clear the this is not speculation this. These are things that happened in these things can be backed up with proof all the things talk interact Frank there's there's a record. But even when unwrap. Pulled to the point ramble and it's unraveling now with season, desist letters, and lawyers and Bermuda parliamentary hearings, even then the warning that went out was not necessarily stopped investing. Okay. And certainly not plow te but hold the phone, and and I'm going to have some big breaking news for you in the next few days, right which causes a little bit of panic, and it causes a little bit of of concern. And so then now we have the red it. Detectives and the people that are doing some commonsense. Due diligence using scent or open source intelligence for seventeen months or so they're now coming forward and saying will Joe Smith was actually named Joseph c Smith, and even though he'd told them like six months ago that the ass this is wrong. Now, he's saying, oh, Joe Smith this actually seeing Smith and the owns the Scooby doo amusement park was wearing a mask. Time for him to us. The whole time, and I would add it wasn't for those fucking kids. And there's no. Critic of the projects. Okay. Because human psychology is a weird thing. When when typically when we're taken for a ride, we're usually extremely defensive that didn't happen to us denial vase so to speak. But once you actually reached the point where you realize you have been victimized or you have been wronged. I guess I should say because I don't really wanna use the word or the P word on s. But then now he's going to become the absolute enemy of this company. Right. Which is it which is what's going on now. So there's there's a lot of threats. There's a lot of investigative stuff. There's there's there's he's filing S E C reports publicly on Twitter, which technically really really shouldn't do that Ronnie, but I'm not here to give legal advice. Just like you're not here to give financial advice and posting screen shots. Right will. In the meantime, you've got all these scribes that are kind of in the lurch. And you certainly got coin holders that are in the lurch. Nobody really knows what the next step is going to be his thing is that there's. There's definitely this new communication strategy going forth. Just in general call like the victim bully, you said that an slack. And that's just what it is. It's like you're so aggressively the victim, it's really hard to communicate with. I mean, we see all the time. Now, we whether it's crypto whether it's in politics. Whether it's in sports is everybody's victim. Boy. And that's just the way it is like hell we've seen it all the way to the supreme court Cavanaugh was aggressively crying everyone bike to the point. Where like why Gresley crying EMMY stream what the man I was like, dude, you're judge what this is a bit much like it was so aggressive if we can come out if we can come out with something, it's helpful for people who are listening. It's don't offload personal responsibility. Especially when it comes to a significant portion of your income, and especially if you're ally on that income like if you're paying for something and you invest based on that basement don't that person if you're not continuing to do diligence. If the money you're investing a significant portion of your household income, and it and you'll lose your shit. If you lose that then shame on you like the in. We really like there's there's no excuse for that. There are it's a sad story. I think the thing that really kind of set him off the very end was the use of the word pump. But he had used that word three times during the course of the interview before brought it up. Yeah. It was it was it was a negative connotation that was not him. But just like the term front running the term front running is a term that we're, you know, something good's about to happen. So you get ahead of it. So you basically trade ahead of it. When I asked him is there any chance that those those people were front running you. Okay. By the way, he just told us minutes ago that one of the people on the board had told him that they got caught front running. Right. That was that was exactly what I was. And I said what was there any chance? He was front running you. He said absolutely not they were completely blindsided, and they were completely blindsided. So and that doesn't really pass the smell test to make because we gotta be careful 'cause that spoil on accusatory. Okay. So I'm not gonna use that. I'm not going to anything about what we'll say is the word pumped is actually used in crypto in a bad way. In a good way. Right. The word colloquialism at this point. Correct. It's not a criminal term at all right now. It's just like hill we jokingly say that too. I guess I shouldn't use the word chill to the pump. Maybe that will work. You're staying the transitions that. You gotta take into account the transitions cryptos going through, and it's moving towards the slow transition towards more institutional investment where institutional foundations and those things are illegal like, that's we're moving from a point where it's Khulekile a joke to a point where it's taboo, and then legal by the right or the words that we've created as cloak Eliza. And Santa Cospes are flat out illegal terms. Netra Ted hump and dump is illegal insider is illegal front running is a legal. So as we move from this fucking thing that neck beards like to trade around and say, oh, it's crazy. Like, I can I can put money inside a digital titties. This is fucking great to holy shit. This money actually is going to be. Apart of significant macroeconomics like things need to change in we're witnessing. That's why he got so upset he was like stop saying the word pump. And I'm in the background like pup pump the jam up. View his story as he stated it just now in this interview. Just now was that he saw what he thought was insider activity going on somebody knew something insider, right? And he wanted his subscribers to take advantage of you said that literally I'm salute conspiracy. Like, if I know that like insider trading, and I wanted my subscribers to get on that. Yeah. If I know something fraudulent going on, and I'm trying to benefit myself or my friends by by joining into it. Okay. That is really problematic. I can't imagine an attorney. That statement as is the thing is if it's pink sheets, it's less regulated in shit. Like that happens, this ain't even pink sheets. But this is this is we're not even on the pink sheet radar. It's so unreal. That have people paying you money when they pay money. They don't want to engage in criminal activity. That is the basic most basic business contract everywhere in the world except for Silkroad. Okay. This contract is Nolan Hoyt illegal activity on. Cut. You kinda last part. There got the. Got the every other practice besides silk road in the entire world contracts or Nolan void if there's one side doing illegal activity. I don't know anything vice. But that seems like yes that seems reasonable to me. I okay. So. It's all ridiculous. We're going to see there's a lot more stuff that's going to come from this. I don't wanna spend my whole life into it. Because I was not a part of any of this. And I feel really sorry for the people who put a lot of money and somebody who trusted them. I don't know if they didn't have the faculties to to deal with like his inability to do property diligence. I don't know if his inability to do diligence or potential whatever he's into wasn't like easily as seen in this. Brought a lot of it to light. And so now they're able to like really valuate what what type of person he is. But based on just like his his Twitter following I dunno. If he's falling a partner is always acted this way. I haven't looked far back in the past. But like if I were to spend three thousand three thousand dollars a month talking to somebody like getting advice from somebody subscribing to them in they acted that way online. I would immediately shut that shit down. There is there is no world in which someone should be like. Yep. That's the kind of guy. I'm taking advice room based on just just just general behavior activity at anybody theory is like did y'all know if this is the way that he has always acted or this type of thing has brought it to light. So that's why our radar right is doing. He's acting regular in. Open the KOMO no he has been claiming that he'd done one hundred interviews on multiple media channels, and no one had ever mistreated him the way that we just mistreated him in that interview. Right. That's claim however, Twitter's full of people saying he told us off to he told me to me is someone told me. So before the interview he asked me what my first name my last name was and then said it was because he's interested in the country origins of it. But he's he's always humble break that was called the humble brag. While I think it's a flat out lie because he's a multiple people have said they've asked for his first middle last name as vetting process. And he he just says will I wanna know the country, organ, whatever whatever as a way to get your full name. So if you disrespect him or you say something on record. He makes note of it. Well, he also did one humble brag that he'd been to XYZ travels, seventy plus countries. I know it was pretty it was pretty recording. The that the part about how many Twitter followers, I have in having. She's been to just FYI guys if you ever run into someone who's I open line is to tell you how many Twitter followers, they haven't. How many countries they've been to turn around and run basis that is not a it's not a good sign. But those emails that I've seen he does that everyone. Hey, I I've done this. I'm the top twenty of this I visited this many countries at this many conferences, go fuck yourself. It's almost like it's automated responses like he's done that that dozens of people probably Email same thing. Same thing. All the doctor did things I've traveled I've done much work in these things that you quite quite understand quantum mechanics. All over the place, it's really high level stuff. And I if I had a couple of months, I could explain it to you. But for now, just take my word for it. It's way to establish a level of juicy that scary for other people. So I do want to do wanna put out the bigger lessons aren't have to dignity quaint. And that is in my cynical and skeptical mind, we're probably going to see three or four these unravel of this size in the next few months. And I do want to save the big lessons to be taken away from this is number one you should trust. Nobody. I mean when we talk about zero trust models around due diligence for your personal investments you should trust. Absolutely. No. It doesn't matter. If you're paying them, if you're not you should absolutely do your own research and de YO are does not mean reading a paid newsletter that someone might have crypto coins of their own, and that's not research. Right. So there were some signs than warnings on Reddit and elsewhere. About this. And I would say the you need to be approaching this with the level of skepticism on the other hand, I work in cyber security. I will tell you that there is a a. Trends to blame the victims of fishing, etc. And I'm really resistant to that. Because some of the most fisted investors in the world can get taken as well. I've seen some of the tooling being used to try to crap credentials such. And it's it's it's not crazy to see real people who understand good practices to still be hoodwinked. I would say that just like with most things it's relative. And there's dependencies right? If market is extremely risky. Don't trust anybody talking about it. If there's there's other things that are relatively low risk that people impart their money to all the time people's four one ks people IRA's people have find food Ashir refinance planners that they're like a I'm just gonna give you this pile of money. I have one do ones. Yeah. I I have one as well. I'm going to give you money every month. You put it in the mutual funds and in thirty five years if it didn't work out the way we talked about. Well, fuck me, right. That goes, right? And so it depends on the level. That would what we've always said hashtag, no investment is that crypto currency blockchain technology is a risky investment. But in investment on the list in eight and has innate properties of an investment, but money in it, it grows or shrinks and the last lesson. I wanted to say we could take away from this. By the way, guys is historically on this podcast. You've always asked guests to describe bitcoin ten words or last. So that you eventually collected those into an award winning book, but they can get on Amazon a word way. I would say going to get told to go fuck off. And they're going to hang up on us. Maybe we should ask that question at the front the very beginning that we on the record. Because becky. Him in the next book. And he just like halfway through the question, we cut that off. And just just fuck yourself real big on it. Stood by what I said, you know, Ronnie, if you're listening to this, and you wanna give us another shot and give more clarity that people that are following you and provide more answers, and you wanna have a cooler attitude. You know, you shouldn't do diligence on what we're about. We're not in easy platform where you can just she'll talk. We're gonna interject with our own opinions. That's certainly the case and that that probably his fault. And that this is something you said previously Ray is that the of time he is a keynote speaker and a lot of places he's used to the idea of people inviting him on to that people can gain from his wisdom, and they just give him the stage to talk and talk and talk, and they don't question what he says. And if he would have done a modicum of research about who we are. And what we do listen to a single episode. He would realize that that's not the case here. We we ask questions. We interject are pinions. We dig a little deeper depending on like if something doesn't. Feel right. We don't quite understand something. And it's not it's a conversation. It's not a stage to talk about something so much would that invite that you just extended to Ronnie would that also be invited to the people from arbitrate or from dignity coin or even some of the user groups, or whatever would you like to have many of those guys how much time we want to be spending trying to investigative journalism now now, it should I guess we should hear the other side of the story. And we'll ask similar stories. But I don't want the next ten episodes to be about this nonsense. Yeah. I had a more important things about the space that are important that people shooting about then than this. I I just rod listening to this whole episode, of course, doing he's just walking around whatever the hell houses and just fish his fist clinched like that. What was it Arnold? I mares that we've set a lot of things we've created this mountain of what you would call chorea attack vectors. For Ronnie and his quote unquote ghost team because he's only sleeping seven hours a day working seventeen hours a day. Yeah. I have one thing to say about that. Ronnie, if it's all you why the fuck where we talk to your system for week to give that interview. That's all I'm saying who's that? Who's that guy is fucking ghost his he lets he missed out on getting into our Pulitzer prize winning book like Raymond? The colts award-winning oh. Special blue ribbon. So w would eventually your book is still available for Christmas. If if people order today still Amazon's gonna drop the ball on if you just Google described bitcoin inside, sorry, not sorry verb. If you search describe it coin, Amazon, it's the first thing that pops up the three reviews all five star. Anyway, you know. Third. Let's read them read them. I think one of them is raised. So we should read his. No, I'll read the newest one the book is solid then as it is now blockchain haven't even come close to the surface. But let for the big things this magnificent pure and needed five stars. Wow. So even people that have never even heard of bitcoin before can just kind of flip through it. Right. And that's that's kind of makes it user friendly to to the non crypto people would love to do an audio book where we have commentary on people's responses, and who said it that'd be fun. Maybe in the future, and let's send a book to Trevor Noah on the daily show. Could help through Darvish. He you know that that's like PO box. One one eight. Show. It'll never gets. There's so many interns there and crypto is just as exciting when it's near the bottom as it is when it's near the top, maybe one of those interns, say, hey, Trevor, I know you talk about shit is this interesting book about pure responses to what people thought about that technology that you fucking bashed when it was at the height now, the low, you never know what happens. Fuck it over to metric did you just say that cryptos exciting at the bottom as it is at the top of because when it's at the bottom, you start to get a lot of Paul krugman's that come in like, I told you you can mix is told us before. And you just get this negative swath of getting labelled a maximalist the slack. You know, because you are you're way too positive if I if someone says, something bad Hewlett woods bad because of XYZ as like you will not accept any negative criticism. We all feel the burn like don't get us wrong. Like all like, we've all had a good amount of money and crypto watched it turned into not a good amount of money. Once upon a time I had like forty five alz, and they all ended up back in BTC. And in hindsight, they probably should've stated BTC a lot of. Oh, yeah. We had we had this really cool like arbitrage fought running that basically traded between ether bitcoin, and I think we put a certain amount of bitcoin. And then when we've done we had like half day my bitcoin. All I kept watching it. I think it's doing a good job. I think it's doing a good job like. It wasn't. It's just. Another bond. That's like holy shit. Look at this get him. Get him. A special person listening right now, I was going to be sad that that that ended up being the result of our body. Yeah. I know here's about. Now, the person that we're talking about understands how those things work really, well, and is upset that we perform so negatively on it. Was that a rickety wrap wrap it up? If you're interested in this we typically so this this episode of different we're usually have longer roundtable upfront where we just shoot the shit talk about what's going on. We cut to the at the end will usually do life. Collins you cannot in on those live Collins unless you are in our slack. So if you'd like to join type that's stuff weight during the slack. I want to defend myself so maximal Sierra, I didn't call you that I didn't call you this someone in the slack is. One. I generally have a positive outlook on all things. All right. Who's fin for twenty plus years. I have to have a positive outlook on things just as revived. Now. My reasoning for having a positive outlook on the crypto markets and bitcoin especially because we've seen this before. But we know the fundamentals of the technology. We know what is trying to do and those forces don't just go away. There's twenty one million units of a very sound money in it's proven that it can be used as money, but not well. So as long as people keep working on the technology in it gets to point where can be used as money, and we start to see these emerging properties of store value medium exchange unit of account, then we're going to get it going. It's tough because it's still growing. But nothing's changed. Yeah. You're saying like, okay. So this cryptocurrency is not a sound investment is very volatile with any flippin say. It's a proven models volatile. Well, here's the thing. If you're in my opinion, this is my personal like the way I invest in this stuff. I. No, I understand technology really really really well better than most. And I also understand what where a lot of the price hike came from over the past year too. And that was pure speculation. And not utility of the technology because the technology wasn't ready for it that then became this. Massive hype cycle of people who were speculating on things. They didn't quite understand not based on the utility of the underlying technology, people weren't using it. They were buying it holding it hoping it's going to go up. That's not how this works. And so because I understand that technology minute for the long haul because I understand the possible implications it can have if succeeds. If it does the things that I think it can do based on the, you know. You know way at all works, and how it's very very different than traditional infrastructure, and why computers talk to each other than it has a tremendous amount of potential in the future to do things that we aren't we can't do right now. If that's the case by design, it will be more expensive worth more than what it is. Now, that's the bet than I'm personally making by buying into this holding. It is that I'm betting that in the future. Of over probably mini mini ups and downs. It will be worth more than it is now, and that's why I buy it and hold it. Now cloy base. Basis dramatically hoping that aired no there's adding coins. And so if you're opening reporting base or like, what's this coin? Oh, twenty nine hundred tell you this much. They're doing a tremendous amount of due diligence on the legitimacy of those coins, the infrastructure that pushes those coins the people around them that are developing those coins. If it gets added on coin base, I can I I have very very very strong opinions that there is a lot of legitimacy behind. I'm not arguing that I'm saying that people that are investing in those coins don't have the legitimacy erect their their offloading that due diligence responsibility to point based putting it on their their. So it's about your own due-diligence. I don't think it's I don't think it's a smart way. I also about fucking yourself. No, though, I mean, yes. I do say that like it's extremely risky, but it's got a proven track record. I mean. Don't look. Ask me questions. Like, if you if you wanna know Hawaii do stuff or like how something works. I'll tell you exactly how something works. And if I can't find somebody to do it. But I'll never tell you to go buy something at not not give you the reasons why or why feel that way. And then say if you if you feel the same way that it might be worth worthwhile to you. But go check for yourself anybody that just says go buy it don't worry about. Why is an issue or you know, this is an example this week? I mean, you had talked about once upon a time in medium, you talked about Kronos. And you laid out pros and cons. Right. I don't think Ronnie was laying out pros and cons about dignity coin to only pumping up the pros. I'm sorry. Promoting the. Yeah. So. This is this was a juicy episode. If it's your first time listening, please ascribed to are things. There's lots of ways to finace like Corey said the. Yep. We we have free content. We've talked about releasing premium content. But we never really put our our our adds to the fire and get it done. But maybe one day, but the bequem podcast dot com as we can find all of our stuff, we have a lot of shows. Now, it's a network of shows more than of cryptocurrency content for you to buy into a week. And yeah, I don't think anything else to have what do you guys what he has yet? Join us lack rare. You gotta win podcast dot com or as a button on top. That's a slack. That'll give you an invite to get here. Also, if you have comments on the episode or just comments for us. You can click on a new button on the top of the nap bar of the web page. It says record or like a d. Yeah, it's something we're trying. You can record your voice if you wanna like give testimonial. Hey, listen to your show for a long time. And it's the shit. I just wanted to tell you guys that we'd lived put that on the air if he win which is like to tell us to go. Fuck ourselves. You can do to play it on the show. That would be amazing like I'm tired of your voices in. I was you would go jumping bridge will be like, whoa. That's extreme. But we're going to get anyone make like a EDM remix of Ronnie tons the fuck yourselves will played on the show. I can put it. I can put a wall. You don't get to. I wanna fan. Soundboard button for the future podcast. So that you can hit that. Maybe how I spend my weekend we need etiam remix go. Fuck yourself could go fuck. So anyways, Ray thank you again for stopping by guest hosting and guest interviewing. Anybody is in Bermuda and wants to find me on Twitter. You can find me Ray, redacted dot com. That's rate redacted dot com. Request for the month of the summer. Get out of the cold and cozy up with some actionable security tips every single day in you can win prizes winner that micro dot com. You can win some books. Actionable security tips, so things you can actually do that day to better your personal security life and the a better internet citizen. So that you don't get you. Don't fall prey to phishing scams or people taking your passwords or things like that. And if you sign up, and you do all the things in you follow the rules. There's a chance you put yourself into prizes based on you know, you get ledgers a copy of our book T shirts swag things. Like that. That also help you better your security life or just or entertaining and fun so winter micro dot com. Awesome awesome. Everybody's listening. Shutout to. Shut up his only sold on Jons as he beats play. Go go go. Go yourself. Go. Fuck yourself.

Ronnie Twitter SEC front running Bermuda Jamie Goldberg Jamie Steve James Toronto FINRA Bermuda Ray Corey petty Lance Braverman Arba Nate analyst
Part 2: James Scully, Brad Anderson

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

59:24 min | 1 year ago

Part 2: James Scully, Brad Anderson

"Yeah it's the twentieth. It was Wednesday. The I'm blown away that I did not realize that the last two years the happy belated birthday thanks same day. That's the main thing. Think we may not GD And I had a good time. When I'm had a good dinner so I hope your birthday went well? It was a for mid week thing. It was really really nice and We'll probably get another probably get another dinner in Probably is Tomorrow downstate so oh. I'm not trying to make the sixty edano big not a big. Oh that's awesome. Yeah I guess I guess it is happy for you guys and wanted. I wanted to talk to you on on Wednesday because edited edited. Joined us on Tuesday. Previewing the pick five and talked about it with Marty a little bit and I did get we did get some mandy capping from Dale Romans. Almonds very kind of surreptitious handicapping. But he was he was actually pretty valuable because he basically told everybody everybody. That Marty McGee's brothers are sprawled McGee's source was GONNA win. Pass the plate. How did you how did you do with the FAI? Well which I'd listen to that an interview because past the plate with a horse that I I tried to beat in that trophy race was four or five years and Didn't wouldn't close at all so I use the Twelve to one winner because that horse had run at seven furlongs at like two or three wins at the distance and had a ah other winners. Were all pretty short. Price went four for five though. Yeah I for me the it was it was the. It's it's funny when you rehash these. It's funny because there's always somebody who sniffed out A Horse that that you didn't know that either. You didn't not necessarily didn't like but even just in in deep races that fourth-leg was you know was really tricky. And in in one version I had three as three BS and to seize and it was in the sees that I had home base but then when I built the ticket and punched it I actually ahead trimmed back and I went three as and three sees the former bees and I understand Scott. Shapiro loved the home base and So so I mean it it it just. It's so difficult when you when you're trying to balance the opinion and then the ticket building in the sequences and I you know I put a seventy two dollar ticket together and and the ticket was twenty four. The all as you know for more of a budget play I it's funny. I got three legs in. I thought I'm in good shape here but You know that that I didn't even I didn't even think of how `bout that horse to finish. Second to home base. That was what that was sixty to one. Fifty to one out hotpots ran ran his eyeballs. What's out there that I think it was eleven isn't it? I forget his name now. Route and that route that was rufus was yeah. Yeah Ruben Ruben. Peter Miller horse that was Really SORTA over that ran third and I tried to beat. Yeah I'm so I that was like all right. Well let's get some good opinions going into the weekend. Marty was with US earlier and we just sort of touched on on the fields. So maybe just You know jump around and and if you've got some stuff today and and anything that you're looking at for weekend place sure I well I mean I can start today. There's a look at it closely but I did look at this number eight off the chart today so i. I don't think they're going to get that much rain over much rain overnight. The surprised if they did not try to run on the grass tomorrow but in race number eight today amount of sixteenth made special awake phillies number. Eleven missing Porton. Didn't show much. I two starts went on the tariff. One spurning keeneland but stressed-out. Ah One turn mile. Last time I thought ran a really good third showed improved speed. Goes back in this spot for Kenny. mcpeek with a bullet work acumen in preparation ration- Bryant Hernandez and you kidding me. Peak one like about one of his. I like twenty five Stewart's you got up the real cold start to the me and the spring me with simmer. Mr And he finished that spring on fire in June. And it's it dad. Barn is turning around as well I look for you know his sources or because he had that Real Nice Philly on Saturday that first time starter by daredevil but Chiro at one by like five lance in the finale and then he had crypto cash yesterday take eleven to one so his barn starting to heat up. I thought the racist really between Missing important and Lady Mackenzie who ran second last time in the same brace and I'm GonNa give the edge still nice and then turning to Saturday. The Saturday of I'll go over a couple of races Some thought were interesting at goodspeed. In the latter half of the car tomorrow Churchill a race number seven is a maiden special away race and obviously in that race that Levin Horse Gold streets the one to beat You know it's not the most imposing field here mcpeek. He can horse may vary deputy. I gave a little bit of a look to as well With aroo but I do think that this noble empire is a little intriguing number two route. Ten to one on the line for D Wayne Lukas. Cutting back to six furlongs caused by empire maker but out of Indian Charlie mayor all the speed and the female female family. First Time out there Toga. He made the lead that day. At thirty forty one wind up weakening to be beat about two months in third It wasn't the fastest race but the runner up came back Sawn man a Colt Kirwin coal for Marquette came back and broke his made next time out of Belmont so it's pretty solid field and next to starts at Churchill Down Noble Empire make leader. Neither one did not make them lead at all In the next race and last time he it was really just chasing it from an outside post I think with Martine Board. He has a chance in this field to sprint clear. Early on especially the tracks favoring speed tomorrow Alabama wire-to-wire looking kind of one of the morning on like it nice and then in race number race number eight which is a ten thousand dollar coin There's some you know it's a big field You know maker has this horse zip though for a Zayat Stables dropping from twenty to hand off a win GonNa be the favourite likely and there but I took a look at number nine Honduras and and this this building has run well flat to the last two starts Churchill last night or I'm I'm sorry before his last start at Churchill downs. He had from wellness to starts before that finishing second. He was disqualified from that effort and posting a front running win Understanding Hill Last two races kids that either caught serious pressure on the front end or been in to deep and though spot not a lot of faith in this field I didn't think and I think Honduras has a chance he didn't drink tip on the front end fifteen to one on the morning line. Consider for any multi-race tickets. Nice because I I'm glad you I'm glad you hit that spot because we didn't go over that And I actually hadn't looked at it either So I who else for those playing the pick four pick five. Who else is dangerous? And they're like I said I mean those sorts of like Dip though that tough for me to figure it looks like a fire sailing there. I mean even the Number eleven was another one. I thought it was a little interesting You have summer duck coming back in here and he ran well this summer churchill downs. I think that Fairmont Park Race might so people earning for thirty two hundred dollar price but it. It's a pretty competitive rates and I did like the race set. says Iraq ran to start back at Churchill downs he was claiming that race You know didn't have the best trip Arguably at Indiana grand last time. So he's a contender in there for Michael Tomlinson very good all right. What else and then I mention In the the feature if it stays on the turf it's a race number ten it's a A One mile turf allowance non winners of one other than allowance. And as a you know it's pretty well matched raise Kedar is GonNa Dr GonNa probably be the favourite for Mike Maker in their You know I took a look at several horses in there but I'm GonNa go with midnight. It always made Moran and Brian Lynch you know he's having in a fantastic media he's four fifteen wanNA race yesterday He's been spotting series seasoning these sources and there are. There is some speed the outside ride but I don't think there is quick him and I I liked the addition of Robbie Alvarado one thing about Brian. Lynch's he spread his Mounts around Mitchell Murrow. We're all James Graham Declan Cannon Leper who hope Jockeys Britney sources already this me. He's putting up a good speed rider and Robbie Alvarado midnight oasis the sex. It's a wire-to-wire win at Kentucky. downs the runner up Peter Miller China came in his next start. So I'm GonNa give him a shot. wire-to-wire wiring and Midnight Oasis Eight to one hundred twenty one nice. And then I'll just mention the two graded stakes this weekend and took a look at the both races. Were and in the native diver at del Mar.. I like leading score I. I think he's perfectly drawn on the inside I. I don't think that even though he's up front running type as all that quick and it was going to sit second. Yeah and I look for him to bounce back. I mean. He's a five year old. He's only run nine times but baffler hasn't stood now and you know he's got a shot corona show. I think on the front end. Yeah I I didn't. I didn't think it was slam dunking and actually Mardi Mardi said that I guess baffled Is is running He he was considering the potential of coming to the Clark but apparently he was leaning towards Stang there that that seems a little open ended Brad spoke to Baffert and Africa that he was standing officially. Okay good all right good. I mean you know that's not one hundred percent because they can change their minds but yeah for at three had as he was running nice all right excellent and then the other I mentioned real quick. Steve is the Red Smith a heck of a betting rights act. And you know. I'm intrigued by in Nakamura I like horses with improving for Mike that I can start You know after running a close fourth in Japan Turf Cup. And second in that Sycamore. I really liked that allowance when at Saratoga in August beat beat a nice horse there midnight. Ti- Times it was fourth last time in Sycamore and lovers like pace rating one. Fifteen zero five one five three races. It's four year old son of animal kingdom definitely looks like he has a future and I don't know if he can beat sad. I'm not a hundred percent events. He can beat their story. You know I'm not sure that horse is gonNA show this either so Nakamura appearing interesting to me it's it's a competitive group and and There's a lot of ways to go. I agree and At least including prices probably advisable James. I appreciate I hate it. And we're off Wednesday Thursday for Thanksgiving but Friday we'll we'll do. We'll do a Clark show Clark preview and and and we'll have the stars at tomorrow car to digest as well all right. Pentastar look forward to it. Have a good Thanksgiving happy Thanksgiving James scully. Everybody James Underscore scully one one on your twitter and of course On a regular basis the twin spires blog role. Let's take the the bottom of the hour break. Were Ninety and ninety two com perfect timing. Brad Anderson's GONNA join us. We're going to talk about winning the Breeders Cup batting challenge once again a circumstance where the leader board the for flew in the classic. Nick we'll get the second by second report right from Brad and the decision decision making that he had to engage in the punch on. Vino Rosso repeatedly the back after this with your readers. Bedding Challenge winner Brad. Anderson at the races is with feedback on Sirius. XM RADIO OFF. SPILLS DOT COM as a cost effective time-saving painfully revolution. Benders is rated degenerate electron own vendors. Who can pay through horse? BILLS DOT COM for just fifty cents turnouts working of minutes with our easies. Have our team take hoping the bookkeeping continued yourself. Subscription check out our vega to`real portions dot com to check and it started today for free or spills toll free number eight hundred eight nine million four six four three get started in Kentucky over eight million dollars. In additional money is available at the five Kentucky tracks for horses eligible for the Kentucky Thoroughbred Development Fund Kentucky is a good place to raise your Kentucky bred. It come home to Kentucky and Make Start D. R. F. Sports for Digital Edition your ultimate weekly Bannon Guide published by daily Racing Form D R F sports form deliver all of the analysis and insight. You need for every NFL game more than forty college. Football matchups beat the spread with powerful trends and sharp angles tapping best bets. Expert picks partly winners in four offered as four ninety nine. Aparicio get this week's edition. Free Visit Dot Com Slash Sports Forum Enter Code P R F sports works of Arizona Race Track Industry Program. Dan Prepare you for an exciting career in racing. Turn your passion into paychecks. Nearly ninety percent of our students are employed in the racing industry immediately upon graduation. And what career track are you on the University of Arizona Race Track Industry Program Gold today and get on track for success for scholarship opportunities and more check Al website at UA Dash t dot Org. Why is accreditation important? aftercare thoroughbred aftercare alliances standard of accreditation and grant process. Thanks provide donors with confidence that their contributions are allocated in the most effective manner D. A. Accreditation is only awarded after a complete review of an organization organization after care cannot be an afterthought for the industry to learn more or support the TA's missions visit Thurber aftercare dot org. Gary wonder what happens old friends including the great champions and inspired unforgettable memories and maybe even let your cash ticket or two over the years. We've have a former child prodigy here as a superstar or says Davis Afternoon Delights and kept us on afternoon the lights absolutely galloping Alabama. Hollywood paternity these are the champions that help out the horses that might not have won a grade one race but always try just as hard come visit them all at all friends when and you're in Kentucky or at our Bobby Frankel Division old friends and Saratoga. I know you'll be glad to see old friends. Equine DOT ORG or call us at five. Oh two eight six three seventeen seventy five you know back to at the races races with Stanford on Sirius. XM radio rocks culture. Have No Jan.. We're back at the races. Forty five minutes to the top of the hour. Always look forward to the Breeders Cup Betting Challenge Victory Conversation. We've already had a couple of other discussions and of course The visit Utilize is the opportunity to talk to. Dick Girardi is well who finished third and flirted with a win. But it was Brad Anderson's all in decisions on the classic that made it happen and comes away with the Breeders Cup betting challenge when a pleasure to welcome Brad Anderson percents to congratulate him on the BBC went Brad. well-done thank you gave that good ambae anti. I need to comment that I always love your your music I think we're we're at that same age and I just love to hear your choices of music so I'm assuming you have some say in that Keep up keep up musical voices and the pleasure to be here. Well and I do I do at all the you know all the music and Casey and I have made it a i. Kind of a point of the part of the show and and Actually got a whole list of of new editions. Plus of course. We got a lot of favorites Christmas. The Christmas season cuts cuts They're they're they're closer than we'd like to believe actually because I th Thanksgiving right here and staring us in the face so a a lot of a lot of the favorites including the all time favorite Christmas in jail that That everybody that's everybody's favorite Right talk a little bit about how this all came down for you and You know we had the conversation with Dick the other day and he was was struggling and he had to abandon some of his strategy. What are your thoughts going in? And how many of these have are you participated in our military new two to contest you. This is my second DC DC. I participated last asked you down and Churchill down then and just came away just just loving that experience loving the thrill of of competing against the best and meeting some of these legends in of course was playing world and and really you know sat back and really tried to analyze how I perform there and and really got me started thinking about this year And this was a little bit different in that I did a little more research into how you know the winners wanting to past and and really started to two zero in on on some key concepts that I wanted to execute during the tournament leading up to the classic Most for the past winners really made significant bad and the classic in Catapulted them to the lead. So you know that was my strategy added us to understand how I could get into that latter part of the second day with the payroll that would allow me to not take a lot of risk. I wanted to be able to play a sensible bath as opposed to trying to you. You call in an exact or tri factor. I really wanted to on a win. Bet To keep it as simple as I could and to reduce the risk you know in the British pockets so hard to pick a winner in these races. The quality of voices is fabulous and and I have a hard enough time zone. Lean on on a horse trying to get a second or third choice to come in and it affected was just a lot of additional risk. So so you know what. I'm strategy was simple. Fried to accumulate bankroll. That would allow me to you. Know take a confident shop somewhere along the two days and then use that bankrolled go big in the classic A- and that that seems that seems to really mirror some of the things that Dick talked about On on Tuesday now but what the the advantage of that. You seem to have had that that hit that you enjoyed early the On the day Saturday you went over three on on Friday with the with the minimums and then we started off strong. When you lean Don Kafi and this was one of the one of the central themes of of the discussions that we've had have also had pete and we've talked about it a couple of times already in the aftermath? You know the the decision about either utilizing horses like caffey and bricks and mortar order or either avoiding them or or going up against them. What was your thinking on Kathy because you really did get a nice little lickin in there? Yeah you know going into the tournament. Co Saffy was my strong opinion. I I really You you know what I was impressed But how's she was running In really derail didn't give me a concern. Turn you know with Vario on board. I you know I just really really thought we would run a great race and so so taking favorite like that. I needed to get extra value in a way that would go back to you. Know give me a evolved into brought up on the bankroll so then I i. Did you know win bet on professionally and then I did a couple of double into the next race which was to discredit them. And when I looked at the turf rent I thought it was a wide open right CA. I really didn't think too the clear favourite. That could win so I did. A couple of doubles won a Dublin. with all And then I trust you know four good price voices You know some of that was was Giving people that I respect that were positive on and one of those forces. Both ways you know ran a great radio on attract she likes and it turned into a you know a four to one return as opposed to a three you too So it really it just. It was an opportunity for me to pick horse that I really really liked and get some additional value. As opposed into the I if I just singled her and a win but you know and again to to kind of parallel to the discussion we had with Dick is kind of similar. He did the same thing with united who he had expected you know would be kind of a back wheel horse and it takes you know takes bricks and mortar and and parlays again one of the weekends most likely winners if you believe that way and turned it into a a big hit that that almost won the whole thing and you did something similar here and you. You know. It's interesting Brad because vic was bemoaning the fact that by the time he got to the dirt mile relatively early on Saturday card he was not in the position he had hoped for because spun to run was one of his biggest opinions going going into the weekend. And that the difference really between where you end up and where Dick ends up is that you get this hit. And it gives you the leeway later on and he was on his heels and when he had to make a you know a a a swing for the fences decision it paid it off as well but it was kind of desperation time you know simultaneously. Yeah Yeah I you know I have you know to tournament been exposed to support players in it and you know both Dick and bill to who finished second have been according to gracious and you know for experience was players to listen to them how they think and I thought you interview with Vick was just fabulous and he took. That's an enlightening individual but When when he made that back I mean threw off my strategy strategy when it came in because I mean it was just a brilliant play on his part? But you're right I think if he had a little more capital going into that I would have been untouchable and that provides for you Watching watching your plays after after hitting the double you basically played the minimum. You just were doing the requirements and you were you you kept it really straightforward and simple and and you did take a couple a price shots here and there for instance It's kind of funny that you ended up on shaky Shabazz as a wind punch. I guess that's a cover. In in case the forces used in the double none of them it and it w you bet and Jackie which was what he he certainly ran well to be third ran a great writer. See I and that was I mean. That's just an example of you. Know a minimum bath that you need to make these tournaments that I thought would generate extra cash and not being you know exposed to a lot of additional whip so yeah one set double came in. I mean really the next you know four or five. That's all just minimums. I A new now that I had a balance You know that that I could compete. And then you know I landed on splendor around as well and and You know what it was the horse. I did my research carrying some people that I respect them go to bat for this for other questioning and again that was the minimum bet. I bet a lot But then added some additional capital to me that really set me up Or the strategy on the classic well and what you did there was simply the six hundred dollar wind bet and you bring back six thousand. Yeah yeah so let's see. Then we go to the seventh you just a little double-punch Villa Marina with MOTTOLA IAN A lot. So that was a little bit of a swing offense swing if if villa comes home you know and this is where you know a little bit of Lock truly plays. He's out because the other horse that I was going to pair with Natoli and Chen Yi you know so after the race I am just so mad at myself. I'm like this is one where I'm going to look back and just kick myself because I you know I made wrong choice. But it's ironic that if I would have bad double it probably would have given me enough capital to go into the classic and be able to use the odds on the Kennedy To go for the win so you know that's one where I I was mad when when it happened but now I just won't happen. Say you know. Some of that is just faith in lock and it happened that In essence I made the right choice by losing. You have added curiosity so that in that spot why not why not use both why not use iridescent and Villa Morita with with. Its only chance a lot. Great Question You know I again. It probably comes back to trying to keep it simple and trying to you know I really I really in the sprint Thought of the speed with mentally and enchant enchant Latin. And WanNa just stick one in in that than the Philly in their turf. But I but I think it's a great question and one in which I could look back back on and say you know maybe in the future those kind of situations You should awfully floor Abbey. You know a little complexity there well and it's almost almost like a touching because villa marina was fourteen to one and every desa was thirteen to one. So if you were if you were splitting hairs about the price Then the other the the other thing you could say to yourself as you could also narrow on the back end and and make a commitment to one or the other to chance a lot or or tolley and and US both and only one horse on the back end You know but This it if the strategically it was not you know. It wasn't a bad idea. You had the you have the right notion. No matter no matter how it turned out you also come back and and now we get to the mile and here again you. You had a clever clever concept you bet without parole and and you're you're six hundred and I wonder how many I I didn't go through every single ticket that you know everybody you know all the postings of the players but I wonder how much of the contest influenced how low without parole went off. Awesome night to one. Yeah I think that's a great question in one in which it'd be interesting to do some additional analysis on that because you know what influence does it have on on some of the The pool that are out there. Well we know oh I mean it it it certainly especially when we get to the classic You know historically that that's been a big part of it Without parole runs well. And you're just you know you meantime. You're still just treading water. Then you get to the distaff and in here. You went ahead and embraced midnight. v Sue Street band was was one of the exact place and Blue Prize was the other and you had to be thinking to yourself. Why didn't I just do a three hundred dollar? Exact box blew prize at visa. Especially when that finished that way I mean that's that's that's where you know I'm still learning how to leverage it but it it can be both frustrating at times in terms of You know my handicapping brought it down to these to allow. Both of them ran great races. That just ended up flip-flop Ah I missed so yeah I think a little bit of some time trying to get these factors and tonight. How much consideration did you give playing the turf? Did you come close said all or at that point. You strictly know that you're going to focus on on your on your classic play. You know at that point. I had it messed minimums and the came down to You know thinking I had capital mad at this point going into the turf a couple of things one. I didn't know that the Dick would make brilliant that on on the evac Guy did it So I I was looking at my overall goal was around two hundred thousand. That's what I I was targeting to try to win the tournament so so it clearly Influenced you know. I wasn't GonNa bet took fortunate that I had another entry. That was still alive. Stephen even and going into the turf. I had about eleven thousand left on that entry and You know the second most favorite course that I liked was bricks and mortar So on that entry. I did three doubles where bricks Jason Mortar and then paired with Yoshida. War will higher power so having that other entry. Sitting there You know allowed me to play turf and then with my winning allowed me just to Well then ah you're sitting with how much on the on the on the ticket on the main play going into the into the Classic Twenty Five Thousand Nine Hundred Twenty five nine and as you referenced. A little a little bit ago you came to Santa Anita Expecting that Mackenzie was going to be your play and you talk about what you're grappling with your. Obviously I'm imagining that wall the turf you know the lead up to the turf you're looking at You know the probables for the doubles to interpolate. You know what the you know. What the imputed odds are explained to everybody the mental gymnastics that go on during this hour? You know since I was alive on my the ticket You know my first reaction when the mortar one one was just I was extremely excited. Because now in essence I was GONNA have More than one chance and the classic and then you know the tournament banding posted and then you know she goes Dick. Just you know vaulting all the way to the top with a number that just you know. Put me off at say. Oh my gosh I mean he hit that exact And it put me now position of having to make them really really tough decision and I think you get put into these situations go and you find yourself going all over the place in terms of what I WanNa do you know and one of the tenets was I I want to win this time and I I wasn't looking to walk away with with payroll. I wasn't looking to to walk away with that. Let's see that the NHCD. It just wasn't what I was trying to do here. So you know I went back to the strategy and and my top two verses in the classic for making me and they don't also so to me it wasn't you know all of a sudden I had to go to being around so I I like In a row so you know robbed Gold Cup. I love the Jackie goal up that he ran You know and and I was familiar enough with You know his style. Say you know this. This one's really has a shot but it came down to them me looking at those two horses and the hats and Hugh knows leading up to the classic. 'cause a lot of time just sitting around and really do you really. They want to do it if you WANNA bet. Close to twenty six thousand dollars on a single voice so I went through the fact as I went to. You know what other and you know. What other best could do possibly get to a number and I was targeting one hundred forty and and I didn't know what was going to do in the classic so you you have to think you know that a number but he could do something that gets them a little bit north number so you know clearly I they were the number was gonna be one hundred forty and and I looked at you? Know what the odds were came down to a fairly You know ingle threaded decision of okay. What Courses GonNa win this race and I landed on on Vino Roseau also would allow the at least at that time thinking that I had not to win the tournament? How how much did you waiver? And and I I was surrounded by friends and and you know they were just a great sounding board and you know and and again. I never imagine that you'd be put in this position where you know. I try to treat this as just tournament and the money was the money and and my interest was just you have to pay to get the experience and to be around. You know solid was players in great people and then you're faced with the decision and the decision came down to the then. The odds made the decision for me so that I and I went up and I put all of it on real so and and was just back and try to just enjoy the moment and and enjoy the experience. The nice part about watching at that point though as you know is is that at no point it seemed to me especially at the end of the backstretch and and As they move toward the turn and and into it you could just see the the way he was moving and basically bringing to the to the lead it just heave. We've almost looked like a winner. Nearly every step. Yeah no looking back on. How experienced the rates? I mean to see him. Pass the the grandstand the first time and he was on the outside I thought he looked beautiful. He just looked like he was running and and had a lot of energy and then to see the race you know turn to the back stretch and you know see McKinsey start to to challenge and then come around the far turn and and I knew and watching his racer. It just feels like when he gets to that last stretch he just find a way to get a gear. And just this to you know EAT UP A lot of dirt. And that's what he did and it just I mean the race. I walked probably twenty five at times and every time. It's just the remarkable feat of what you know todd pletcher and how Iran man I mean we just it to me it was now a little biased. Because there's one hundred forty five thousand dollars Being delivered to me when I When I got that bet correct and then you know as the determinant played out you realize that really you get paid you know close to four hundred ninety thousand four that more special the the trip out to to Santa Anita for the Gold Cup that when he went out there and one that that for me that that's when I you know I kind of file that away personally as as a horse that is going to be reckoned with you know down the road? Yeah I mean knowing knowing that the track was obviously even heavier by the time we got the November the that it wasn't in the spring but that that part of it for me was always in the back of my mind talk a little bit too as part of the overall approach. What you use? What are your? What are your handicapping toolbox favorites and talk a little bit about how your game in general has is involved? You know I still consider myself a nod. That's an and And I've got a lot of one when it comes to in Caffeine. But but I I start with you know the daily racing for him the PPA's and I'll make my notes around the voices. And who I liked. And I I You know with a focus on Scorn history you know. So all watch key races I'll try to get some insight on the workouts and and some of those court And then you know they're not get as much data from some experts and I respect either podcast column friends and I love accumulated a variety of data. Punch you me in my business career. I always found myself. Smartest people could find and then leverage their opinions to make decisions and and that's how I treat Miami. I look for people that respect to you. Know have a lot more knowledge or expertise thirteenth use my opinion of foundation and then adjust entirely a win. That guy I do like exact in touch elective at times but I feel like I've got a lot to learn and that the multi-race that's something that is something that that I want to expand in terms of uh back but yeah so so it really is You know try to come up with my own opinion. Then listen listen to the experts and then Still forward and and again. I don't really play a lot of contests so close. Contact was in the summer of seventeen in Arlington Park and I wanted entry into the NHCD so that data for the seat In that and then you know last year was my first DC DC. Because I said I experienced three was just one which I got a great time. I walked away. You know zero money But it was the experience of meeting somebody. handicappers would just generally good people people once you get to meet them and shake their hand so it's an evolving handicap things style. But it's wanted which I think I'd lean on it just isn't opinion. Get a lot of paid out and you know zero in on how you need to adjust your opinion. Thank you to you mentioned Arlington from Chicago. You're from Chicago proper or or suburbs. You know I I was. I was born and raised in the Midwest so I oh and then my career brought me to Chicago and a little bit of time in Atlanta but majority of my career is Ashikaga land so in the suburbs and So that's where I would start to Enjoy the racine more. You know as all of us we career we'll get a family and and Kinda put on the back burner and kind of you to the hobby. That was something that you know. I was down the road and as my kids got older and my career was more formulated. Then I then I was able to start putting a little bit more time Arlington Park and and really enjoyed again. Getting back to them so I love that where where where in Iowa did you. Did you grow up in a small farming community. You called rolling. It is just north of aim. So I'm in the center of the State Nice. Nice did you go to state. My older brother and my twin sister both went to Iowa state and I was a rebel. I couldn't I know you're Iraq. I have a lot of a lot of family Grandparents aunts and uncles Grew up in the area. So it's a great place and I love going back there but it wasn't. I got my education. That's funny because I when I was in Kansas City I I called on on on a sales business. Proprietor up there and it's just just wonderful and join the as well my my forays over the the border from Missouri. Where we're we're always pleasant? I only got about maybe twice a year for you know for about two years but I always enjoyed going up and And in particular became a bit of a clone fan to it at the time I made going forward It's a really cool place. The did you where where was the first. Where was your first racetrack experience? The briscoe or now you know I I can't remember. I think my grandfather took me to the quad cities to see Congra- rom three hundred so nice My Sir by first experience Was it was it early. Then and now you know I'm trying to get to all this is my first trip to Santa Anita But I still got a lot of other tracks that I need to visit but Barbara always be like my home. It's such a beautiful facility and it is just a great way to go spend an afternoon with friends and enjoy the camaraderie the NHCD seat that That that comes with this is to how do you. I suppose you give your approach. The you know the wind place concept concept of NHCD probably fits your approach you. You could be just as dangerous there. You know I so I I should say back in seventeen and I. It was just an overwhelming. Yes I mean you know. There's just so many people in all fun and and long-term Sunshine you can see that have been established and starting to get integrated into that. It's fun the the format is is one in which Yeah I do like it. It's a little bit of a challenge because there's so many races you know with the breeds from betting on it. It's focused on those races at the track and you can really do and and do your handicapping in that. Tournament is much broader. So it's Kinda test a lot of my Deal with being able to you. Know very quickly assessing These racism and the like and you know it's ironic this summer at at Able to meet Scott cold was also so Chicago area. That's right what's player. who won the NEC last year? So you know I jokingly I haven't talked to Scott but I think I'm going to be leveraging a little bit Experience for tighter mature I can execute my strategy in a way which can make competitive. Well wow I just Just with this kind of a performance and this kind of a win what do you what do you expect it. It just does for confidence to General. It does give you a little confidence when you can Execute a strategy As well as your handicapping expertise I mean. Give me a lot of confidence but you know at the same time I think back to you know when you enter. These tournaments is the the twist and turns any tournaments and not have strategy planning and I think it takes your skill to adjust your strategies with those twists and turns occurred. So I mean you go back to Some of the best that I did make Go back to the way the the deck executed his is bent. I mean your strategy is there. Then you have to adjust on the fly. So I I. I think that's where to me. These kind of thrilling in terms of you have to be thinking on your feet and to me. That's where plan is a plan and you need to plan and fortunately that what I would be able to do but there was luck in there as well. I mean there's no denying that luck plays a lot of success but I'm also. Oh you know a firm believer that you make your you gotta be in position to have the data in front of you to make these as locked up here. But doesn't that always always an appropriate time to pull out branch Rickey Luck luck is the residue do a design. What are the great quotes there ever I? I'd say that would be hemingway one about you. Make your own luck. Ah I just think you know to me you gotta get grounded and There is blocking and you have to embrace it and and don't get don't get frustrated when you don't have it in bracing when it does land in your lap. So and and you also are touching on One of the things that Dick brought up to. which is you know not being not being intimidated or not being overwhelmed? Not Getting Mad At yourself and and letting that creep into your decision making Not Getting you know looking at the leaderboard and thinking thinking I I have to completely abandon my strategy. You know th there's there's so many taxing elements mints when it comes to you know the People's personalities in this game and it. I have have talked about this lately much but this is always a good occasion. You know big wins that that result in multi hundred thousand dollar the prophets food more or less tackling any inner inner demons or inner dialogue dialogues. That that hold you back. That's as as much a challenge around this endeavor when in horse play as as anything that goes into the handicapping part. But it's funny. You mentioned that because you know as being a relatively we knew player in his contest You know some of these individuals are competing against larger than life and my mind and and some of that is they're bold personality that deep expertise and knowledge. And can you know recite facts just amaze me in terms of how they retain it and then when you get into the contest and you see your name next. It's going to have to shake your head and say okay here you you know your your plays at gotten you to be competing against the best of the best just continued to execute the plan and and You know enjoy the experience opinion clearly Send you a little bit. I have not going to you know play a lot of tournament. I have other interests. I got a big family that I like to spend time with and my wife and I just move to the Sarasota Florida on the tired and going to be one of the many interests and hobbies that I have in playing these times much well and Tampa you did the Tampa Bay obviously with you if you do the West Coast. I mentioned mentioned bill. Severe coons who finished second He lives in central Florida and spend some time on Gulfstream so he was gracious enough to invite uh-huh down there as well so yeah. I think you know being here in Florida. There's a lot of opportunity to continue the journey of my my handicapping and horseplay Brad. Anderson Just a an absolute pleasure and the these are always one of my some of my favorite visits and discussions as you know hearing how things unfolded and and being able to to encourage others to participate and certainly there's been a nice the parade of of you know relative newcomers to the the contests seen you mentioned the Scott and Matt Divulge of course came out of An agency see last year. And we're not far from from heading to Vegas Probably about ninety days away Well done Brad and I so appreciate you taking the time to visit they. Thanks for the invite you know when I look at your roster of guest today it just it just amazes me it kind of puts it in perspective when you look at some of the expertise some universals you have and the pleasure and I hear happy. Belated it hurt Betas on order and please have faith and enjoyable Thanksgiving with friends and family. Awfully kind and same to you and yours whereas Brad Anderson everybody and Brad is also a relative newcomer. It seems to to twitter and I guess you're waiting into the action. Yeah you know I. I'm not a big social media guy but You know I do. I do like to Kind of Browse House twitter a lot. I'm not an active post too but You know I think I'll probably keep that pattern until I get a little Little more bolder on some of my statements on the different social media. Well It you've kept it very simple and humble with just with just the Vino Ross. Oh stretch run at the top of your page and you May. You probably should tin that. You could probably use the pinning feature and keep that Keep that up at the top of the page and you can follow Brad at Or you know. Follow him and congratulate them Anderson Brad had a Anderson Bradaigh and this is an Anderson with With the no And my parents make sure that I always say it's an Al not again. You know the difference between regions tweets. Well it's funny because we're we're going to follow you with with an e with Brad Anderson from the daily racing for and There's there's exactly the The distinction the educate everybody. Everybody on which is which the Oh and the WHO who gets which I mean to me. It was always You know that. The hands on Christina Anderson and the ease or more from Sweden and and the Os are traditionally so we Doorway so it's always that they're friendly neighbors but the alliances and allegiances. I love it. Well the Brad Anderson. Congratulations again. Thank you thank you. How much was that Brad Anderson joining us? And we're GONNA stay right here. Because standing by is Steve Anderson and important to get Stephen this morning given yesterday chr be meeting and also a fairly notable performance on the chase scene. Going back to last weekend that I can. I can use with With Steve's visit because at the PUNCHESTOWN Last week at the age of Twelve Steve And I'm sure you've seen him several times over the years. Unbelievable that Willie mullins would be so Davis and bring him back as a chase.

Dick Girardi Anderson Brad Brad Anderson Scott cold NHCD TA twitter Kentucky Marty McGee Steve Anderson Churchill front running Chicago Sirius Stephen Robbie Alvarado Iowa Mike Maker Alabama
Ep. 81 Ford v. Ferrari Review

Plaza Podcast

33:44 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 81 Ford v. Ferrari Review

"Welcome to the plaza. podcast episode eighty-one. My Name's Chris and I'm Joel. Thank you to all the plaza. peeps is that give to the show financially Just by supporting us on Patriots. We have a lot of different tiers on Patriots where you can get discounted concessions concessions. Free tickets Even be on the show if you wanted so if you WANNA go check that out if any of that stuff sounds cool you all you gotta do is go to pitcher on Dot Com forward Slash Plaza Cinema Four. We'd also like to thank our sponsor next level laser tag new company serving wise and surrounding counties. Things call nine four zero six to seven next to book your Mobile Party today or check their website out at www dot next level laser tag egg dot com. Okay well so today's episode we are going to be reviewing Ford Versus Ferrari starring Matt Damon Damon and Christian Bill. And now in a way. I haven't there hasn't been really a whole lot of marketing really for this. I've seen only a few trailers on this and so but I was very anxious to see this movie. Yeah the I I mean. I haven't seen a whole like on ads on Youtube and all that stuff. I haven't seen a whole lot of of this movie either but I think for a movie like this The name and the actors to main leads alone are going to sell the movie. So so maybe that's I don't know but I I have a feeling like even though the the push for it. I Guess Marketing Wise Hasn't been huge. I think it's going to I do really good At least for a couple of weeks. And because here's the thing like you just said the actors at are basically front running as end. There's not just to actors. There's a couple other Bay John Byrne though- yeah The punisher and the The netflix series. Yeah and what's Josh Lucas Josh Lucas. He's Sweet Home Alabama Guy. Yeah so I mean there's some some you know some good actors in there But here's the thing this. This movie is obviously going to be a geared toward really big car enthusiast Especially those people that love to show cars love cars in general but this is based on the true story of the you know back in the sixties the sixty six twenty four hour lawns. That was a race in was Italy France or Italy and they're competing eating with Ferrari Which Ferrari pretty much that race they dominate? Oh yeah they. They were winning like four years years in a row I think they said I think the last time on anyone that was American one was shelby herald shabby so that's kind of what this is based off the true events of Four versus Ferrari from the one thousand nine hundred sixty six Twenty four hour lemons race and really wants. Yeah and what it what they do is. They're pretty much leading up to that race. That's what the whole story is how basically Ford was at one point one. I guess we're going to merge with Ferrari yeah they they just wanted a presence in the sports car exactly sphere ear of things and so yeah the easiest way to do that. I guess was to buy your competitor. So yeah and so. That's kind of what how this what the story is. And if you you know the background or you you know or you're very familiar with that you know. I guess you could say that event. Which in away during that time was would pro was probably a pretty big event? You know was a big mark in history. And so that's what this what this movie is going to be about. Now if you're coming into this thinking the all all this is is car racing. You're absolutely wrong. Not No character development yes lot of sore development. There's a lot of you know start. It's it's from beginning to end. You see it from start to finish so there's a lot of building up whether that'd be character bill up or just like you were saying story build up You and you feel for these characters. You're vested Ilia. So so much. They do a great job at building their characters up and the time that they do race ace in multiple multiple races. It's good rate. Oh yes various. The last one which is the Lemoyne's is was a very good. You know I guess you can say. How long was that one about a close to twenty minutes probably yeah it was pretty long And you're on the edge of your seat the whole time. Yes I was. I mean if you I mean especially when you know and you you know the history you know what's really going to happen but to really see the et directed insanely well like you make you feel like you're in the action and I think I read a little bit about that history you up. I could be wrong if anybody. That was specially anybody. That's older that maybe lived through. It watched it whatever the case may be. It seemed pretty accurate. The really did they didn't Hollywood is done. I don't think they did that. Trump will yeah. We won't really say anything but yeah there it seemed you know they let the the intensity of the true story itself. Speak Nick rather than having to do. All these crazy things you know. Like but Yeah so mad Matt Damon who plays Carroll Shelby and then Christian Bale who plays Ken Miles. The driver yeah. I mean those two I mean you know definitely tell me I almost think those two did such a great job that they should probably be nominated for an Oscar. Yay They D- Chemistry. Which one do you think probably stole more the show so in your opinion man? It's hard to say because they're both so strong on in their presence like they play off each other so strongly their chemistry is so good. But I I think would probably have to say that Man Matt Damon. Maybe I think I think Matt Damon performance wasn't as hard as Christian Bale's yeah Because has Christian Bale you know he's he's doing a little bit of an accent he ish yeah he. He has a lot more emotion and rain. She's having to do all these different things. But I think the more quiet performance of Damon. Just I don't know He. He played it so well. It's hard hard to say It is both of them. Did like phenomenal. Yeah they did great. I think this these these performances by both of them is probably one at their top OP. Ones I in my opinion had. It's good yeah I'm probably GONNA take back and say I like Christian Bale's performance just a little better. It's hard but it. It is Christian. Bale does so good they both do. It's like I kinda give the edge to Christian Bell. That's my icon. Houston he's in it probably. I don't know they're both in it. But he's in the action a lot more. Yeah he's having to do a lot more things in the car and sometimes when he's driving it's the intensity of the scene is Driven by just his facial expressions. He's having to do certain things That AH caused tension just by the way. He's looking out the window or whatever and I thought he did just a phenomenal job at being able to hold that tension. Yeah and so. Oh I've this movie was extreme. I thought I was Gonna like it and I loved the movie. Yeah that's the exact same any. My I didn't know how excited I was for it. I love the actors but I was like I don't know if the story is like for me. You know if I'm the audience but what. Oh It's told so well in the there's a good mix of comedy in it The and the acting is so well that yeah I'm I'm in the same boat. I ended up loving. Because here's the thing I mean I'm not in by no means a car enthusiast. Okay I I basic- I couldn't I couldn't tell you what's wrong with something or alight cars and I liked the older styles and everything like that but the the thing is when you talk about what if this odd you know if it was meant for you and the audience I mean. Think about some of these older movies that are true. True stories like the horse ones like secretary. You don't have to be a horse lover who appreciate what that in that time name. What that horse did? You probably would've enjoyed the movie And it's just the storytelling is so well done exactly and just to see some of those you know how they do. Those at the end of true story events you get to see the like real images and a little bit of you know background and facts facts So this is going to be targeted to adults anyways. But I think this is also going to bring a lot of the car enthusiasts out and Yeah I think it will. I think I think it really. They will appreciate this movie handled extremely well I I think this is going to be a best-picture contender For sure it's up there but I also want to say that to be honest. I almost kind of forget that it fits Ford. It's almost about shelby and miles area. It's about them. You almost forget that it's about Ford. Versus Ferrari yeah. It's really the relationship between Miles and shelby the and that's why the performances needed to be so strong. It's because most of the the depth of the story and the tension of the story comes from their relationship and yeah they man. They couldn't have done a better job they they did such a great job. Oh Yeah and and here's the thing this time. It's it's a week time for some movies and there's only like three movies coming out opening this weekend which obviously we got two of them. Which is Ford versus Farrar each in Charlie's angels but the other one is the good liar? Ford versus Ferrari is is Basically it's looked at it's going to be the number one movie in the box office this weekend. they're participating around that twenty twenty one twenty two million dollar range for opening weekend. I could probably see that I I does good. I almost think that it's going to over achieve. Yeah I think so as well because word of mouth about this movie because Midway overachieved Oh did it. Oh yeah it will overachieved. It was number one in the box office and they didn't they didn't think it was going to be all that great and it turned out to be a phenomenal all movie. Oh okay so. We didn't even review that one. We chose to review entre. Sleep Dr Sleep and Doctor Sleep bombed financially financial. Yeah it just. It didn't do as good as what they thought it was gonna be. I thought it still hit number one. Did it not midway did midway. Yeah wow so yeah it was. It was kind of a shocker on that one. Yeah but I think a lot of the lot of the veterans friends and everything really appreciated that movie and so here we go with another true story and those seem to always do really well. Oh always and especially if they're like really close to the original and they're not Hollywood is yeah. I I think Man This movie I wasn't I wasn't for sure if the two hour and thirty minute run time was going to to feel really long Like 'cause when when I saw that when I looked at my phone I was like. Oh man this is going to be a long movie. But the how how they split up between the action. The story building character development. And then going back to another race and how they break it up it really. He's Speeds by does and you could and I could tell on some things that you thought they would actually drawl out. They didn't and Dan and that has to do with some of the rate like certain like the minor races. I thought they would draw out some more stuff a little bit longer. And they didn't they they they touch on important. Yeah exactly and man I just. The movie felt tight fell Really just really well put together. I think it's a perfect time. I I don't think it feels long. And you know and a lot of people are could be familiar Melia with carroll shelby because you think about the shelby. Gt five hundred. Say which is a very like a very popular muscle car in. It's a very expensive car and then of course you know earlier. You know you're hearing when you watch the movie gone gone. In sixty seconds with Nicholas cage each that main car a shelby. Gt five hundred which they called. Eleanor the G. The shelby cars are just just. They're phenomenal cars. And and so on screen. Yeah and so to see that kind kind of how that progress through this developed in developed you know it really was awesome. Feel seeing how miles would just drive it in no certain things what's wrong. He could feel it exactly so it made you really appreciate his love for the the the sport or just for cars in general. Yeah There there's some things that happened that he just you can tell he's not doing it because has he wants to be the best in the world. He wants to be number one and he's doing it because he he loves it. It's something Show even talks about it. There's two people in the world with couldn't do anything else or like it would physically hurt them if they were to do anything else because they that's what they love and he didn't mention miles is but miles took off his glasses because he knew he was talking about him. 'cause miles couldn't live without racing and his wife knew it too. Yeah and I thought the the family dynamic of his wife and his kid was actually really good touches well. The kid did a really good job and I really like The actress actress that played his wife. They they adding acted like a family. Yeah they did. It wasn't like it was trying it was Kinda like it wasn't fake family like okay honey honey you go. It was like a had added some a real like a real life scenario. Yeah Yeah it was. It was really well put together so all in all this movie. I definitely think it was fantastic. One of my Wa- is definitely probably is probably going to be one of those contenders for My one of my top movies of the year. Oh it definitely will be probably my top ten. Yeah so with that with that said and looking rotten and rotten tomatoes. I looked earlier. They didn't have the audience score but now they do okay. The critics score on it is ninety one audience one hundred. WHOA wow that's rare but I mean we only on the audience? There's not whole lot like around thirty six. Okay but but on the on the count so far but the KRILL. The critics are eleven and they haven't seen one of these a while we're the critics and the rave a regular audience member early are really close in this one. That's awesome. Yeah and so. I think this movie is going to be something wrapped in right before the Thanksgiving holiday which this movie will stick around. I think for Thanksgiving. It's a very good family. Watch like yeah I I would love to watch this again like with my wife and some fans this is. This is definitely a movie for you to bring Your family to that. I think you know they will actually enjoy this movie movie. Yeah has something for everyone. There's like really intense action. Oh if you call. Its action is actually racing. But it's action it keeps you on only at yeah really intense action and really funny moments Good drama it just all around. There's something I think everyone can appreciate a- and it's all all done really well yeah I'm in. I know you just literally got through seeing it and I came in for the last thirty minutes of the movie 'CAUSE I've already seen it this morning. It was good enough for me to come back and see and I probably will come see it again. It's it's I'm definitely going to praise on this movie With all that said everyone probably knows that. I'm probably going to write this one pretty the high But what for just throwing it to me I. I'll do mine I haven't done personal y. Yeah you can go ahead I'm given even this nine point five. Nice that is super solid. A I enjoyed every minute of it. I was invested the entire time. The run time did not kind of scare me too much knew it was long. I like wow this is this is this is long but WHOA whoa. I probably ten minutes. I was like locked in probably I was locked in and I was really enjoying it and I was learning and just a just I I was really invested in the movie and I was really floored on the performances by Matt Damon and Christian. Bale Oh yeah And it was just like this movie. I I laughed me to you and very funny in. I was really excited and I was just like this awesome. Yeah it really is and so I was. I left the theater this morning. Just like pumped aaliyah excited to get to do the review after. You're saying it was just one of those movies that you're like ready to go ready to and this movie is a movie that you want to buy on Blu Ray. Oh Yeah I would definitely buy you know this is. This is the grade and four K.. Yes and you know what it even the way they did the You know sitting at theater and you hear those those race the cars race. Oh Oh yes just how the surround. Yeah it sounds. It sounds great the way they did all that for me. I think I'M GONNA go. Maybe a little higher. I think I might give the okay. I am going to give this a nine point eight. I yeah that's the closest osas. I think we've been in a while. Yeah Yeah we've we've been close but yeah that's definitely what point three different definitely the closest. We've been I have given anything like a perfect ten. I gave fall out. I think perfect in a year ago a year ago I gave I gave a movie. I can't remember what it was. We don't get very many tints. Yeah it was recently. I thought I'm trying to remember which one it was man. It wasn't once upon a time in Hollywood but I came close on that one too. I'm going to have to. I think I've given something a tin man man. You know what I should have put that in the show notes I know yeah. Put our grades when we so we can look back. Dang I kinda forgot. No that's gonNA drive me crazy. Yeah you'll probably be looking ended up tonight but hey look right now so nine point five and nine point eight there you have it. It's very good. It's very very good. Good I encourage everyone to come and see this movie. If you'RE GONNA come out see a movie this weekend Definitely come and see this. I 'cause next this week there's probably another solid movie out that obviously we're not gonNA get. which is Tom Hanks's Mister Rogers a beautiful day in the neighborhood I'm are Kinda. I'm hoping that's going to be just as good but I haven't heard. There are some reviews out that I haven't seen yet ma'am man trailers if it's as good as the trailers making it's going to be great and I don't. I think the only movie I gave a tin was the lighthouse. And I didn't review that on here I just. I reviewed it on facebook so okay. Maybe I didn't give him. We haven't given movie ten yet. Yeah it's been it's been It's been close. Yeah it's been real real close coupled so we don't even have anything. I don't even think we have anything for like on our soundboard for the tin. Unless I gave joker ten I think gave Joker Tin. Did you joker yeah. I think I did because you use the soundboard for it. Okay thank yeah so that was a good movie to yeah. I was very but I mean there's not a whole lot else to say this movie. This movie there is just. It's not not like a bells and whistles. Okay this is not your true Hollywood Michael Bay. Yeah it's not like a lot of act you know just explosions and gunfights and everything. This is a really though well told story. Yeah and if you like movies that are inspired by true events. This this is definitely one of the better ones. Yeah in all UCAR enthusiasts out there that love cars especially the people that are big on like fords. I mean because there's a lot of people that love mustangs and stuff like that and you're just you're going to absolutely just enjoy this movie and you know I you know. My Dad has a sixty six Mustang. I think he just totally enjoyed. This movie talked to him afterwards. He definitely seemed like you liked it a lot. I'm I have a feeling he will be back watching this again. I definitely I wouldn't mind if my wife wants to see it I would love to watch it again. very good. It's the type of movie she would really like to. Yeah so I think it's GonNa I think it's going to do good here especially there's not a whole lot else opening up. I think this movie is going to. It's going to do really well So before we get into the next segment or the last segment of our episode Just a quick reminder to everybody that we are partnered with Fiber which is a which you know if you're a podcast or streamer or you know if you have a website or anything like that and you need like a new intro. Ultra Music logo anything like that or you know maybe a new email out for your twitch stream for any of the streamers out there. There's some awesome awesome freelancers out there that can do pretty much anything you're looking for for you know a budget that you're comfortable with So definitely will keep. We'll put that in our show show notes today. Just click on our link down there and go check them out They're they're really awesome am but other than that. Add next part of our episode here What I wanted to bring up was a trailer right which was a trailer which was a you re re released trailer of if how I don't know how long ago it was but it was a handle several months ago it might have been around? Springtime meantime are something but the sonic the Hedgehog when it first came out it got some major backlash tons of memes. Yes yes on the sonic. I guess the sonic character itself. How all me me and my brother were talking about it like we knew it was horrible the first time we saw it but when you look at them side by side like have you seen them? That's what I was GONNA ask. Have you seen. I haven't seen the side by. Yeah Oh is it makes it look way worse. Is it online like or is I'm not talking about the trailer but screen shots from the trailers. So it'll show the exact same scene from the first trailer and then the exact same scene. I'm GONNA pull that up after. Gosh it makes it. It makes it look ten times worse. It looks hideous like you. You sit there thinking Mike who thought this would be okay to upload this like who said Yeah that's that's how we want sonic to look. This didn't even look anything like Zahn. Everyone was saying it. Looks like someone wearing like a dollar general costume of Sonic. So here's my. Here's my question. Though so win it got released the first time and get all that backlash you think those people that release that you think they still have a job I. I don't know that's a good question. What I think is awesome is that they actually did it? They actually responded to the fans that it got so much hate eight. They actually fixed it. Yeah it just shows that man if we really if the FA fans of movies really do want the you know. Hello Judy owes to fix stuff. We our voices heard apparently because they they fixed that for sure. Because wasn't it going to be pushed it. They pushed the release date back because of that. Yeah Yeah I think it was going to be. It was GONNA be this year. Yeah I think so. I think it was going to be for the holiday. Yeah I think it was November. Remember December. Yeah so they pushed it back be just because they knew like no one is going to see this movie. Release it like this and you know what I'm pleasantly surprise with the new one. It looks Saunas. It looks so good. Sonic looks like Sauna. Sean Yeah so you would have thought. Yeah so I was really happy about that. I wanted I definitely just wanted to kind of touch on that because that was something recent lasca now. Is it going to make the movie good. We don't know we don't know it's those type of movies. I don't know because it's kind of like pokemon detective peak. You know which was this is not bad horrible. But let's see how how big of a I mean do how big of a falling to sonic have versus POK Manja a lot less. You know 'cause that's back in the eighties early. It's still held as like a really. You know good game like for people that love Nintendo well even though that was Sega. Oh wasn't Sega ochre but then come out on the Gamecube. I don't even remember Burkina. Yeah I don't know you think they're going to remake a Live action super. Mario brothers like they did back in. Like Oh gosh horrible. Herbal horrible one. Where they're actually pizzas or whatever and they get like sucked up inside the game world? Yeah Gosh I hope Gosh I mean I love Super Mario Brothers. I mean that's one of my all time favorite Nintendo type games. I mean you know I grew up with Mario the other two. Yeah I love that and but I don't want him to ruin it by Hollywood tins to ruin fans take this and let's let's screw it you know. Let's let's make a mad chartered series. That's coming up. I know but other than that. Nothing's really changed with the movies releasing that were getting We're still getting next week around frozen to which obviously that's going to be probably supermassive. Yes we're ahead and we're going to review it. That's that's the movie that's coming out. Hopefully we can get some pretty cool giveaways for that. I mean Disney usually does pretty good. I mean Melissa sent we got something. which by the way? We still have giveaways for malicious intent. So you know what if you if you want some of the I. I still have what I have three watches and to coasters coasters if you still want one give us Give us a review on Apple podcast and once you do once you do that if I get a new review just tag us on any social media twitter or facebook that you just gave us a review and when it shows up will will. Dm You send you something. We'll send you one of these so we don't need them. We don't need them actually. They're just kind of taking up space on her desk so but other than that. Obviously you know the one thing that we still have going. That will be the two special tickets for the Per bowers powers Premier Star Wars. We still got the details going for that. We still have the little mini lightsaber. That we're going to give away. which obviously looks looks like? It's going to be the Kylo Ren Lightsaber Since that is the one everybody's been asking for so we'll probably be given away this little Kylo. Hi Laurent Many lightsaber but we're tron. Also were wanting to kind of do some more stuff for the special tickets and stuff like that which I believe to know to enter that that is going to be on the Gemology to review which obviously it will be a week before we were for you? So you definitely want you definitely want to stay tuned for the Jumanji to review. Because we're going to tell you how to enter to get the two free premier tickets to star wars on that Thursday at six o'clock Don't WanNa miss it because it's probably going to be sold hold out and this and that weekend is going to be super crazy skirt to be almost impossible to find exactly cause aren't you because you said you were like taking off just to come watch it that morning right. Yeah there's a cub. There's quite a few that. Even our cody a friend of mine. That's GONNA re review with his. I think I think he's actually trying to get off to because he's going to try to come up here so as far as I heard. He's trying to make plans like this movie's pretty big. Oh yeah and I am and I think that's GonNa. That's going to end the year really well so we're looking forward to that but definitely stay tuned for the Gemology to review which is basically leave in about a month. That's crazy. Yeah it is. It's super crazy like we said we are going to be off for Thanksgiving giving We don't know what movie were getting for Thanksgiving weekend. Were hoping knives out. which if we do if we do get knives out? That's going to be a little bit later. review than it normally with everything getting released. Monday reviews maybe a Monday Tuesday release. We don't know but you know we will be taking the Thanksgiving holiday off Ge- And everything but I think other than that. I don't have anything else to really add to it or mention because right now. Nothing's really changed. We haven't pretty set scheduled for November I mean other than that. MM four versus Ferrari. What can you say it was absolutely awesome pleasant film Yes You got anything. nope that's that's all for me. Well so that will do it today. So thank you for joining us on the plaza podcast. We'll see you soon.

Matt Damon Damon Christian Bale Ford Hollywood Ferrari Ken Miles facebook Patriots Carroll Shelby shelby herald Youtube Alabama Josh Lucas Josh Lucas front running Matt Damon netflix Chris
Introducing: The Comeback

The Lead

06:51 min | 8 months ago

Introducing: The Comeback

"The big question on every sports fans mind right now is one sports will come back now. There's a podcast dedicated to that very question. The Athletic Seth Davis hosts a new show called the comeback cove in nineteen and the return of sports each episode tracks the major developments leading to how when and if sports will return seth is joined by the most plugged in reporters from the athletic well as athletes and League officials coming up is an episode of the comeback were. Seth is joined by the Athletic Sam. Amick to discuss the NBA's developing return to play plan. Subscribe on Apple spotify wherever? You're listening right now. The NBA has been searching about for a location where it can resume games and finished the season now. It looks like it may have its choice. The other part you certainly cannot glossed over or be naive about. It's the business component. Here that is Sam Amick our senior. Nba writer from athletic. He's on the show today and he will discuss the increasing possibility that the NBA is going to finish it season where those games will be. How end of the season is going to look at the timeline. We can all expect hopefully going forward. I'm Seth Davis when the athletic and this is the comeback covert nineteen and the return of sports and we will get to the latest developments inside the NBA was Sam Amick. But first let's track some significant developments in college sports the NCAA DIVISION. One Council voted to allow on campus athletic activities for football teams as well as men's and women's basketball. Now these are going to be voluntary workouts. The kind that might be happening this time of year certainly football season hopefully approaching but that is a very big step towards potentially live college. Sports being played beginning this fall. But now let's take you to the other big story of the day broken on the athletic by Sam Amick the NBA is zeroing in on a potential location to host games. When it sees season returns the league has laid out a definitive Thailand that increases the chances we are actually going to see the NBA. Finish out the season sometime this summer. Sam Amick joins US Today on comeback. Sam Thanks for joining us on the comeback we've talked to shop earlier in the week sounds like the NBA is moving fast. The two of you broke the story for the athletic about Orlando Emerging as the front running site for NBA Games to resume. Why Orlando so? Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Orlando. The first thing that comes to mind is the the vast private property that is Disneyworld is got the the type of possibilities from control standpoint. That are very attractive to the NBA. Because of the medical concerns the idea that they could create an environment where they're games could obviously happen but where when the Games are done you would have the combination of hotel space. You know dining options breathing room so to speak and you could protect your players and staff members from interfacing with the public too much. I is a all of those. Things are easier to do when it's private property than they are. If you're in another city like Las Vegas or Houston to other cities that have been buying for this bid. The other part that you certainly cannot gloss over or be naive about it's the business component here the NBA has its relationship with ESPN. The main media partner. You know years ago signed a nine year twenty four billion dollar. Tv contract with that outlet and the ESPN being owned by Disney. There's a lot of synergy here. Executive Chairman of Disney. Bob Iger is very friendly with Adam. Silver of the League commissioner. And also Chris Paul had of the Players Union so checks a lot of boxes and certainly they are. They're pushing direction. GimMe sense of the time line. Here's Sam what's the next thing to happen in this conversation so again handicapping it right now. I would say you know mid June. I think the training is going to ramp up in a pretty serious way and I do think there will be a period of a couple of weeks where these teams because the economy is reopening in so many different states. You know you're going to have teams training and their own facilities in their own cities for a couple of weeks and then eventually getting on a plane and going to the site city again. Likely Orlando here but mid-july give or take is when it's sounds like gains would begin last question salmon. Everyone's asked to make predictions time and again about whether you think this is actually going to happen but it does feel like on so many fronts. Momentum is accelerating that were maybe getting to these conversations even earlier or faster than a lot of us anticipated. Does it feel like that to you or is this been basically the timetable? That has been set out. You know maybe several weeks ago. And we're just watching it. Come to fruition great question. I think there was a latency when it comes to what was known publicly about the NBA plans and that was by design. They were very coy. About how much work they were doing behind the scenes to possibly save the season during the time when the pandemic was at its peak because of the sensitivity to the situation in fact last month when I wrote about widespread optimism within the league that they would be able to save the season. It surprised a lot of people because every single a Adam silver got on a conference call with the players with the owners with the GM's he would constantly leave people feeling customers because of how cautious he was being but I do think the entire time he was works shopping countless scenarios to try to make this thing happen now once the country in the world's situation evolved to the point where you felt more comfortable rolling out some of these plans. I think that's why you're seeing all of a sudden. You know what feels like a lot of incredibly quick momentum. Well certainly smart of him to play it like that so we can do this in a smart and thoughtful way and sounds like. That's what's happening Sam. Thanks for being on the comeback. Hopefully it will continue to bring us fresh breaking news but good news as well so thanks for being on the pot. Thank you appreciate it Thanksgiving to Sam. Amick for joining us on the PA. This is the comeback presented by the athletic. I'm Seth Davis be sure to follow us on. I tunes spotify. Google podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts. We're going to be tracking all of these major sports looking for their return in the coming weeks and months ahead thanks listening.

NBA Sam Amick Seth Davis Orlando Athletic Adam silver ESPN Apple NCAA Bob Iger League Google Disney Chris Paul basketball US Players Union front running Las Vegas
How To Bet the 2019 Breeders' Cup Pick 6 Saturday

How To Bet Horse Racing Podcast

08:42 min | 1 year ago

How To Bet the 2019 Breeders' Cup Pick 6 Saturday

"This is the how Tibet horse racing out of that horse racing podcast today. We preview the breeders. Cup with Ed Derosa. Now here's your host. It's not at Derosa. Jim Mulvihill special breeders. Cup Edition of the how to bet horse racing podcast and your normal host and Rosas actually going to be the guest. So Ed's got some strong opinions on the Breeders Cup. We WanNA get right to them now. Ed You and I we take in a lot of data every day in our jobs and the Breeders Cup can be a little bit overwhelming so on your on your first pass through these days of past performances. What really stood out to you Why I like to look at two numbers Jim The first is the class rating because we actually have class ratings for a lot of the international runners so really beneficial to see how the class over there. Stacks up to the class here and obviously the Eric is a better race than most of our TURF RACES. But some of these come from group to group three races and the good ones match up really well with ours or better and sometimes horses. You get a little bit of a reputation. Don't match up as well. And that's an opportunity to bet again so class rating something I look at and then prime power Is definitely a must have especially for the dirt races and the thing that struck me is competitive racing this year but not a ton of standouts under now. Obviously we have midnight Beeson. We'll get to but even a race like the sprint. Who has some obvious superstars very competitive group same with the filly and Mare sprint? Coffman come dancing so handicappers I think are going to have to make some hard decisions about where to lean because one thing you definitely don't want to do in. These fields is used the top choices in every race. You'll go broke right. Well I do WanNa hear more about some of the specific courses that you like The poster on Monday one of the big story lines was who had drawn the rail that includes The favorites in both of the juvenile dirt. Races Co Fay who you mentioned How do you think these? These real draws impact these races. I think Unbalanced most trainers would prefer not the rail. Not because you can't win from there but any indiscretions mistakes that happen or exasperated from the rail. So if you're a front running type and you missed the break. You're out of your element right away. Now if you break on top and cruise like maybe Kafi. They decide to do great. The rail can actually help. But the margin for error I think is elongated from the rail. Not necessarily a negative but if it is a negative. It's more of a negative from the rail juvenile races. Not as big a deal. I think the two year olds separate themselves a little more. You get that sort of stretching impact because some two year olds are so clearly better than others and I do. Think that's the case with Dennis's moment I think he's one of the more likely winners on the weekend and the rail did nothing to make me. Think otherwise Just with two year olds he's going to be in the first light no matter what happens so unless things go really wrong as it didn't his debut when he threw Jockey I don't see that as a negative so certainly some positives. I think more more than anything. It's overwrought though. I hope people do bet against the rail Because I don't think it's that big of an issue all that's Catalina cruiser and Kafi. I'd say are the two of the most to lose just because in a sprint. There's less time to make up and be tactical so those are the two hurt the mouse but even for them. It's not as big issue for me to agree with that Listening to you break down the classic with Joe. Christopher a few minutes ago it was very apparent that you're against some of the biggest names on the card Omaha Beach Mackenzie Midnight Zoo Those are the superstar. So tell us why you're against The biggest stars on the Breeders Cup. Well I'll start with Omaha beach because this horse's reputation is as if he split the atom. And while certainly I respect that. He's won multiple grade one races. He's one of the few three year old males this year to do so. I cannot play him at a short price in a grade one race. Second off layoff. After the number he put up in the breeders. Excuse me in the The six Furlong race the sprint championship too fast too soon. Richard Mandela's one of the best ever but it short price. I just have too many questions. Aka replicate that effort be. How does the to turn mile suit? Would he wants to do? It was going to be the favorite in the Kentucky Derby. He just happened to be fast enough in the breeders. Excuse me in the Sprint Championship at Santa Anita. The dirt miles a totally different ballgame. I have too many questions that are short price. Jim and the field isn't all that deep. Admittedly I do think they pick the soft spot of the three they were leaning to. That just means he's going to be the shortest price of the three spots as well. So I'm against a lot of hype for for the way not chance. Lots of the horses to beat in the sprint. But yeah it's just too much hype So tell me what you do with these horses when you when you're against the heavy favorite on daylight the Breeders Cup. That's an opportunity to win a lot of money. So we'll talk about it well for me Especially looking ahead to the classic. Were against Mackenzie the race before the Turfan. I do like bricks and mortar He's a horse. Who after that Pegasus Turf Cup? I thought he could be any kind. And then got lost some luster because he only beat a horse by a nose of fairgrounds. But far as I'm concerned you've had off the grade one races he has this year. You deserve to be the favourite and the turf any is But he's a favorite. I'm not trying to beat so I'm going to lean on him and try to goes deep as I can in the classic And same with The race before Which is the distaff who against midnight visa? So I'm against two favorites and I'M GONNA use my single and then it doesn't matter who wins the other two long as it's not the favor. Omaha beach is a little different earlier on the card But Sister Charlie as a horse. I am very much for So she's one I'm going to lean on and we've seen the dirt mile produce some big big numbers now granted horses like Golden Sense and Liam's map of one at short prices but Dakota phone wanted a big price at Churchill So it has produced some prices and if you beat Omaha beach who knows now all year long. You've been talking about sister Charlie. Toes a little bit more about why? She's one of the favorites that you actually are bullish on. Yeah I wish magical. We're still in the race because she could've added some price to sister. Charlie think we could've got two to one. Now we're looking at even money at-bats maybe even odds-on so it's pretty important to me to find some prices around her so beating a Horse Omaha. Beach would help but I do think. She's the most likely winner of any Breeders Cup race. She's just one of those I'm not a big replay guy or I know what I'm looking at when I'm looking at a horse. I leave that to the experts but I do think I've seen enough racist Jim. I know the extremes. No-one something looks really bad. No wants up looks really good and when I was there million day when she won the Beverly D. She looked as good as a horse. Could possibly love granted. She was the best horse in the race but she took it to another level in my mind and I she's special and I go back to how a handicap the Diana earlier this year when faced rushing fall face a few others by handicapping thought was if I'm going to pick this horse to be enable or winks. I'm going to pick her to win an American race. And there's no enabler winks here in the Breeders Cup. I'm sticking with her there. You have some very strong opinions to work with Now we just have to figure out how to make money with them. Some final thoughts on managing your bankroll over these two days. And how to make the most out of these strong opinions. I think Breeders Cup days a day. Were whatever your strong opinions are whether it's four horse or against a horse and we've talked about both ends of the spectrum here That's where you need to put most of your capital so if there's a happens to be a sequence where you don't have any of those opinions it's okay to lay off. The money is so good when you connect to Breeders Cup that you don't want to not be able to use an eighth or ninth choice with a sister Charlie that you give any sort of chance to because Oh I played the pick three yesterday and turf races. I knew nothing about two year old coming over from Europe so to me it's all about the injudicious. And making sure if your opinion comes in cash well thanks for these opinions. Thanks to you drop it in on the how to bet horse racing podcast and good luck at Santa Anita. This has been the how to bet horse. Racing horse racing podcast.

Breeders Cup Charlie Omaha beach Santa Anita Ed Derosa Kafi Jim Ed You Jim Mulvihill Tibet Ed Rosas TURF Eric Racing Europe Omaha Beach front running Beeson Coffman
Fast Money 10/17/19

CNBC's Fast Money

44:45 min | 1 year ago

Fast Money 10/17/19

"How do you prepare your business for things you can't prepare for the answer is workday plan execute an analyze and a single system sheep you organise nations future with workday finance HR and planning partner like no other life in the market site overlooking New York City's Times Square this Detroit that those two hundred local chapter presidents have also decided that workers will not come back to work until the ratification vote is completed and ah the deadline according to the local affiliate is a week from tomorrow so that means it's very bold move by the leadership that they would be out of work for yet another week it's already been is it looks less bad if China trade looks less bad there's now chatter that the Fed will pause this sort of I don't want to say cycle of adjustments the president to ratify the vote and send to ratify the contract and send it to the rank and file for a vote but here is what we are also learning according to the local NBC affiliate Bond Yields are one seventy that they had all the way back down to one fifty yesterday we miss retail sales today we miss housing starts bond yields back above one seventy five so there's a message they're gonNA hold a news conference with CNBC's learned is two things someone inside the meeting came out and told us that the union leadership has convinced the two hundred local Chapter I'm trying to just I'm going to go off camera here for a second hold on peak around the corner to keep their coming up yet they are not yet but any moment the UAW leadership and the local not in my opinion stays above one thirty five it's one thirty nine and a half now I think the bond movies tactic yields go lower scary stuff has gone away though or is has abated rebounds that's because something big is shaking and stirring the market if you haven't been paying attention bonds on stage a great reversal sending yields back to their highest levels industrial's report so although the bond market has had a big move from an tenure from one forty seven to one seventy seven where we are now I think as long as the t John Fast Shady trump trailer just pure luck a new bombshell report raises the red flag a series of big money moves in the futures bits are traders front running the president's next but you know this could be a mid cycle pause take further I would say bond yields recently have become more immune to bad news remember October first we print a forty seven on proving maybe there's a somewhat of improvement but I think we're in this we're at the beginning of a turn and I think you're seeing an manufacturing thinking start to see it here in terms of earnings when a lot of these janitors so that hurdle has been crossed I think one of the biggest issue still facing this vote despite all the eleven thousand dollar ratification honest and very very great at low healthcare costs the Lordstown plant in Ohio will be closed and for some members here today that will be strike going on right now with the maintenance workers the UAW workers didn't want to cross the picket line Reuters reporting that GM now has a tentative agreement with the go right here you've already seen some competitors breakout Volkswagen's breaking out Toyota's breaking out so maybe there is some pent-up demand for auto stocks but this has to get resolved that's raise blockbuster report and later a soda pop what you can expect from Coca Cola a report earnings tomorrow but we begin tonight show with bonds treasure is there some immunity to bad news all right we got some breaking news here on the united auto workers strike Jane Walls has got the latest chain guys we just a minute they moved the man who Roses Explosive Story William Cohen joins US straight ahead plus stranger things happening net flex wide struggled to hold the crown following it four weeks that they've been out of work one of the big hold of something they were in there for over six hours today with what was going on what are the holdups may have been that there is a second a little higher than that what came after that was a fifty percent drop in the S. and p. five hundred and then we had this move back up rates to two thousand seven a deal breaker when it goes out to the rank and file we'll just have to see guys all right Jane thank you Jane Wells with the latest on the W strike the problem here is that the call oh I don't think it is mel and this could be proven to be wrong as I typically am on any given night but I think bond yields are going lower listen bond yields go higher because economies six and a half and that's where it is now I mean if gm can't rally over the last five years when the stock markets basically going nothing but higher in an environment where the car industry is bid so well I don't think there's anything I don't think there are triple bottom to the more times that you test that low after such a sustained period of weakness I say they're going lower in a month so is this the official end of the big full bond market loved the Blue Lake bound music this is five because we're not allowed the real one Dan stocks I think when you look at the character of the equity market recently it is more cyclical semi's outperforming trucks acting better rest of world a little bit better so I'm just curious in November and it topped out again somewhere above five percent and then what have we been doing two thousand twelve we did have another smp get cut in half okay right after to be a traitor here with the market I don't remember low low yields have not been good for equities in the last three to six months low yields have been fear low yields have been people us the estimated costs which is now at about two billion dollars to GM for the strike will continue ticking higher as long as these workers remain off the job although the reason defined downtrend you've ever seen and if you look over the last twenty years if you look at the high in late one thousand nine hundred ninety nine close to what almost seven and a half percent well let's get back to her bond discussion here we were talking about whether or not the great bond bull market wasn't over Dan I feel like you're gonna say it's not a it's not I mean I don't the story is really people trying to view the most profitable models lie with its North America Suv markets where we got on the global auto cycle strike workers are getting more pay it's a cancer that needs to be carved out while this may be carved out of the private sector and possibly the housing market it was transferred to the public sector and that's something that concerns me so the union pretty robust and pretty full right now and able to hold out for a better deal I don't think if you're trading GM stock right now this to me is not an indicator of something you should trade on January February and summer of twelve both of those times put in tradable lows in Bunuel's and they also put in good tradeable advances problem I think we'd be global deflation problem no matter what you say I think we are fighting deflation we're fighting credit bubble and the biggest problem that is the aftermath of the credit if there were agrees unfunded pensions that we're looking for returns that they can't get any more because of the situation that we've been in with the rates where they are so I mean it is very I did ride my bike to the student secret agent man Johnny Rivers Ask why are you looking at me quizzically I'm asking you is no no if a tradable low in bond yields is being put in here and I would also look at some of the global yields German yields bond about six weeks ago Chinese you'll bottom six weeks ago Japanese Yosef turns I think there's an option is it we had Turkey we had a lot of big news and to the extent that this is a term it's doesn't change any of these deals we're gonNA talk about that as we get back into other segment for GM the story is not about this strike that and then we had a one four five print in the summer of two thousand twelve and a ten year we had two thousand sixteen a retest of that and then we've almost had that again here triple bottom at the ten year yield on arrange basis the uber you're changing tenure yield is down fifty percent yields have been cut in half over the last year it's happened to other times in history twelve sixteen and nineteen it's the exact same place where we've stopped and we've bounced and the question is really in a world where central banks during that time have thrown more money on the yeah I agree and we talked about it last night I mean I remember I said what year is in you looked at me like what's your problem as you want to do this time of two thousand fourteen GM was thirty say that definitively because Chris Rhone I don't know but what here's one thing I do know if you take a chart the ten year treasury yield over the last thirty years the last twenty years it is most welcome Kimmel Tiv- for the economy here already have a German Pmoi at forty one what's the worse it goes from your maybe thirty right so is that already discounted in stuff like all then then take it one step for their stocks are back in again at all time highs so what do you think that's going to go if yields go lower here I'm I'm glad you brought up the states if you look at hi right now so a lot has to go right from here for the bond bull story to keep working because everyone's already there I think the second thing the bond yields today the best it's been in its history when is it GonNa Rally in my answer is it's not what's the chart look like to you the charts guys right churchmen money for a long time but what I think is interesting if you get six months which was by the way by any measure a historic move in bond yields as Chris pointed out but I I would say that in because of that I actually think bond yields were basically let me make two points when you look at positioning right here just be very mindful of how crowded the long side of the markets flows into the TNT or at a wreck and the question is ultimately what does that mean for that TRIPLE-B trunch of credit out there right now is trading at one seventy five over and that is something that the minute it starts to wide reasons especially in the long end of the curve when you look at the government needs to finance in terms of deficit and where we are in terms of the size of the Bali and technicals say that bond yields you're going higher bears meaning yields go higher that's what happens yields go up when bond selloff is the Treasury has to refund an enormous amount of US Treasury so there are technical bought in other words yields had gone too low too fast I think if you look at where we are in the context of the next three to five years right now I think it's going to be tough to stop where we almost everywhere else other than here to take their their yields they could so the three of us is that we're we haven't hit bottom necessarily or that with semi's outperforming software that's a big change in the character of the market you see it with some of the Chinese Consumer Name Story to act better if there's some soclean shoots there I would be careful in these defenses next week when Caterpillar reports I believe on Wednesday and names like Roper and triple m report on Thursday these deep cyclical industrial names let's see what they say it till central banks real in these enormous the slug of liquidity we still have this is financial oppression for most people this is terrible for savers go and it doesn't end particularly well and my only point is it probably ends with rates much lower than they are here and we see that globally because central banks have had no choice allegations Li Li I know you guys don't think that the bottom or you don't think the bond market is over so what is the implication for the safety traits in the markets to go in that direction so when you look at some of the more cyclically or anti groups and I think there are cyclical green starting to show up here you see it with deer breaking out we talked about that this week you see does and Housing and semi's these these these leading groups Germany Germany is as big of a reason why we are one four four on our lows the other issue for the bond credibly important of brexit deal by the way also for the dollar may also put dollar bills on their back foot for the first time in a long time because if you think about that dixie basket it's sixty percent are you concerned about global growth minded me a little bit of two thousand sixteen which got you to that low you talked about Dan and I agree you mean if you look at the tenure char back thirty years I don't think it's going to be particularly good and if it's not I think yields go lower yeah I think those defensive groups are remarkably crowded here so if they're going to continue to work things really meaning on the job is because there's a deal that's not cut the GM wants to hold certainly their lineup of negotiation? I you know I I think it was deal day right we jam we had think are reflecting or the David today's reflecting by meals have been telling you for two years we know the economy has slowed I think the question is after two years of lower is that starting to get one of his long trades in this environment where utility so I would agree with them and I understand valuations are stretched but just add a caveat caveat I think we know a lot more twenty trae oil it's one sixteen right now trading at twenty five times expected mid to high single digits earnings growth just for that dividend just because you think it's defensive and there's a real this isn't really bothers me but I hear the lyrics there's a man leads the life of danger that's Tim Seymour. Today after analysts who had more time to digest the subscriber Miss said that would come on the company Netflix also getting hit with a downgrade today by analysts and Macquarie Sometimes Square in New York City much more fast money right after this how do you prepare your business for on over the last couple of weeks as yields come back a little bit it started to roll over and it's below that uptrend that's been in place I just don't think you want to be long proctor and gamble above one seventeen fifty percent retracement of the all time high the recent low down to two fifty two and the aftermarket that's exactly where it went last night today traded I think finance HR and planning partner like no other welcome back to fast money Netflix surging after the close yesterday at entering speed but a stock lost a lot of those games it's going to have huge ramifications which will send back lower so basically you're worried about the fallen angels the fact absolutely I'm this load up what what are the obviously goes for utilities and it might go for weeks to coming up netflix losing steam after big earnings rally or even stranger things in store for the streaming giant we will weigh in and later the I five times normal volume gave up most of the gains and again if you go back and look at the guidance it wasn't particularly strong I know they're in internet aspect of it was transferred to other places to we work is exhibited we work have been a forty seven billion dollar valuation rates weren't as low as they were for as long as they were curves actually steepening right it got so much attention when an inverted I don't recall a lot of attention as it's become UN invert here so three ten year is the whitest it's been six or seven the other way right senator got a little too weak guidance that they gave in July was really bad and so when you're digesting this last night with a stock trading up eight percent you're seeing yourself it's been totally correlated possibly even led the tenure but but I I think I still want to see how we how we trade across Europe because I think the the the Bun curve is firm saying while the third quarter was comforting competition is coming and that the company does not look cheap compared to its streaming peers does the sputtering after yesterday's surge mean the Netflix missile subs beat significantly but then you hear what they said for next quarter. It's not all that inspiring I will like Netflix again but I think it told you everything you need to know in terms of the that have gotten so much less safety traits like utilities for example I think they can listen I think they continue to go higher we had a guest on last valuations Suzuki. If you recall I'm sure report that's got all of Wall Street talking our futures traders front running president trump's market-moving remarks the Vanity Fair correspondent behind that big story will join us we're like tens or now comfortably positive right so I just wonder is that another side of this green shoots starting to show on the other side of that going back to like staples these safety trade intraday today Reed Hastings Letter of assurance to to the world to shareholders to whoever it was wasn't terribly reassuring I mean his point was that there's a lot of competition exchange for more net flicks head on over to a website. CNBC DOT com we've got much more fast money straight ahead here's what's coming up next a bomb shelter Oh and at least structurally you have a place where actually turn account and what not actually the Europe euro should actually be here you know what's remarkable here though is what we haven't touched the groups crowded and I would be careful in the long side of the bond market it's crowded as well I think you need to watch copper because if you if you look at chart of copper hd one it is trailed sorry we had Disney we had comcast with at all the ones who had kind of vertically integrated they were all going Berserk right over the better part of this year and since July that puts has been going on as you can't prepare for the answer is workday plan execute analyze in a single system shape your organization's future with workday morning we'll break it all down when fast money returns correct and gamble was trading seventy dollars mid two thousand eighteen and it just touched a one twenty five this is like the steepest breakout the stock has ever had and it's just been a ramp and what is it plus dollar per share value by the end of twenty twenty one which would represent a sixty five percent upside today share price and this letter says that Elliott Ah sort of how they have long-term underperformance and what they would like to do to fix it you see at and T. shares Up Less than one percent and extended hours trading back to you all right thank you Julie Abortion in Los Angeles fairly I mean if they do resolve this it was a very short campaign for at and T. will we actually see the the full value we'll talk with Energy Pairs William Cohen about whether his argument holds water and later how options traders are betting on Coca Cola earnings out tomorrow out there but the addressable market is growing everybody knows what's going everybody knows people are streaming everybody knows I I just I we rewarded net flicks and binge is over and we were pretty skeptical of the quarter in the sock reaction Yeah I think we've actually done a decent job in Netflix and we might trade up to three and I would always like a chance to have to put a caveat on this or put some context on I think over what we've seen over the last three the investment at and T. among its largest ever because it says at and T. exhibits a unique combination of historical underperformance depressed valuation well-positioned Assets Lining it's what it's calling a compelling value creation opportunity for at and T. The letter which is addressed to the company's board says that the opportunity could lead at and T. to a sixty intrinsic value in those streaming pieces in those media pieces and in either their court wireless business which they've gotten under control is attractive we've got a news alert on at and T. let's Julie Borsen with the details Julia Melissa Eliot Management has sent its letter to the board of Directors of at and t. a clear path forward to generate extraordinary value for shareholders and other stakeholders on this letter which we're looking at right now Outlines in time the think okay what are some of the competitors doing well Disney up today sharply charter traded well cop castrated well so this seems to be a net flicks problem it's been in the chart for eighteen months and I think you sell rallies until the as far as I'm concerned the value in some of the parts which I know something you've been doing since the days are long and and as they talked about it's been underperformer but I think the inherent value the me seventeen and eighteen for being able to raise prices and pass them through to consumers. Do you really think they're gonNA be able to do that I don't think so and I think the stock's performance was absolutely a shortcut I do think there's upside forty two and a half the sort of Bernstein Guy I'm somewhere in between Tim and I don't typically like to answer the question but in this case I find new bombshell article titled The fantastically profitable mystery of the trump chaos trades in it he highlights three blockbuster trades that he says should ring basically at eighteen thousand Elliott or discussing items including a strategic review as well as board changes and at and T. could reach the agreement with Elliot as soon as this month according to it's really bad so I I actually think it makes sense a horrible close for the Stock Horrible Trading Action Today it's actually got all the way back down to the two thousand five level that it was before seemed to have sort of abated a little bit but it's interesting to every Elliott who thinks it's going to sixty Bernstein initiated yesterday underperform market performance the thirty six dollars price target alarm bells for regulators Trade Number One on June twenty eighth and investor or group of investors bought four hundred twenty thousand. SNP At this I'm not sure what resolved means they WANNA see actually outsiders brought and they want to break up the old boys network inside of at I'd love to see that I'm a shareholder at and T. I mean go elliot price action today eight percent yesterday after the ball remember a couple of weeks ago I think I do too do we have that thing on me Kamini contracts minutes before the markets closed the next day president trump emerged from meetings with China's president she and said trade talks are back on track the market wow those North American subs work rate two quarters in a row the international sub relief yeah right short squeeze tort that's got all Wall Street talking today where futures traders reaping billions of dollars by front running the president's market movie remarks timing of his statements is far from predictable and some recent market activity has our next guest wondering if something fishy could be going on Vanity Fair's William Cohen just published sources Dow Jones is reporting ballot she was a concern you know this time last year where everybody was talking about the stock was thirty one dollars a huge concerns in terms of what they were going to do those it doesn't look that you guys had all right let's move on here it's no secret the president trump's comments have the ability to move markets perhaps none more so than what he says about trade but the UH of epic proportions I agree and I think when you look at the picture I mean this is this is a chart peaked in relative terms almost eighteen months ago right so the relative money in the stock it was very clear is that the sentiment you tell me what it meant no one was going this was going this way there are other ones going the other way I what I'm saying is is that is fast money I'm Melissa Lee our trade on the desk or Tim Seymour Dan Nathan Guy Dom we're also joined by Chris Verona head of technical analysis after tea gets research partners itself somewhere inbetween talking about something completely different down or or Sanford Bernstein Okay truly it was nothing doc was made in the spring of two thousand and eighteenth not in two thousand nine hundred and then when you look at the acting today it was awful price action today then on top of that through eighty six thousand contracts cross the wire three days later trunk claimed he got a call from China to restart trade talks the SNP shot up eighty points shut up and the trader made off with one point eight billion dollars trade number two on August twenty third in the last ten minutes of trading a purchase of three nations future with workday finance H._R. and planning partner like no other people get that information and trade on it and the SEC investigates I guess really what I'm saying here is there's a strange pattern of trading behavior let's get the regular hours later China said they would tariffs on US goods the markets popped and the trader walked away with one hundred ninety million dollars on that every time trump talks especially when he talks about trade the market reacts either up or down depending on what he says and people are putting in these trades is the notion that perhaps these traitors or group of traders could have been tipped off if they're placing large trades minutes before the market closes on with perfect timing and then there's news related to it I mean who actually knows this news about the trump trade talks the tariff talks how they're going not circumstances and say those are suspicious to look you know you could you guys are all traitors you could do that trading every second of every day Vanity Fair special correspondent William Cohen joins us now feel welcome great to see you here thank you what's the allegation here no allegations allegation there's always a buyer seller I'm just being repertory people are telling me that they noticed an inconsistency people making outsize money making outside beds nations okay trader who I talked to been doing this for longer than almost I've been alive have been noticing this very strange phenomenon to`real I'm hearing this and I'm and I'm laying it out there for people to consider but in embedded in this instructing these facts together thirty two percent of the day's volume so that was that was unusual volume people likes attention like you could go on any other day perhaps in string together a number of other next thing you know you see that the stock price is going up before there's an announcement which basically happens all the time and then the SEC investigates that when Amazon bias whole foods and next sketchy to the people who are trading these these these future contracts every day on the surface it does look fish looks suspicious yes at the same time a lot of people but there seemed to be dissemination of that information somehow just like you know not a lot of people know Amazon wants to buy whole foods but sometimes change and the CFTC the futures regulator they should be investigating these traits maybe there's nothing there but it sure looks coincidental fortunate and there's looking at it and instead of being flippant and indifferent which they basically were to me then why not look at it maybe there is nothing but somebody's making a lot of money that's of course assuming a few minutes before the close of trading and it's obviously not just one person is probably group of traders or some sort of coordinated effort because the number of e mini contracts bodice it it almost seems like you could cherry pick on any given day large trades in indecent volumes one of trades the June twenty eighth trade was actually thirty two you see whole foods is stock is shooting up merger gets announced. FCC INVESTIGATES THAT I'm saying they're a regulators here the SEC the the merck they were discrete periods of time they were taking we had to make some assumption about the time period so a week goes by the SNP is up eighty points you know the WHO large for one individual at any one time but clearly traders in the pits cme have been noticing this and have been wondering what's going on so I'm just being nation that has not been disseminated publicly yet insider trading it's no different okay frankly it's no different to you I was manet for seventeen years if I work on a merger and sold and obviously who knows how many people are so we don't know how the traits closed I'm just I'm just a reporter like you guys come up with those those in is the idea that the market will perceive the news as you and I may perceive the news but I think as we all know markets perceive news however they choose right so we the S. and P. Momentum changes so there's no guarantee obviously than anybody took those province they may have held onto them and lost right bill implicit in this discussion when did they buy the exchange the mini at that point divided by fifty dollars a point times the number of contracts and I didn't read the Article Drake I think Tim touches on this for profit trade must close and I don't think we have enough evidence to say any of these traits closed no but hypothet- here and the S&P is at an all time high roughly yet there's talk of Brexit impeachment China trade right so what struggle within the peace and I read the piece is the my point is I want you to explain it did is it through the end of that running the SNP that you're a basically yes until the news cycle changes likely your traitor I mean if you make a trade and a few days later you're sitting on one hundred and eighty million dollar profit I don't know I might take that so every trade has two sides somebody who believes for whatever reason the S&P is going to go up somebody who's on the other side of it yeah that even with the inside information as you talk about I'm not sure that would help anyone make an informed trade and I also struggled with the word profit that on his own people inside the White House saying that trump's sort of conflicted several different conversations he even says I was trying to make the market go up randy basis which no one has any idea of what really he's trying to accomplish what we do know is that there's a heck of a lot of volatility around his pronouncements whether they're going well gain amount style in other words you don't know where they got out of the trade so how do we know it was at one point eight billion dollar just taking you read the article you'll see it's not going to go up but but you have to admit in the trump era when we've been talking about these tariff negotiations with seemed to be on some sort of rollercoaster on I may not may not may have faked that it's going to go even higher but I might take that it'd be okay with it if I'm sitting on a billion and a half dollar game I might take that it reporting on Wall Street now for fifteen years people call me up They seem credible validate their credit credibility they tell me and then George Conway No slouch obviously he's not a big trump fan but he is a walk down Lipton partner he makes the point that this is insider lift that is being charged about this administration you say to yourself okay maybe there's there's something to this regulators should be looking at this because the task and it's very hard to back test this because the president talks about the market more than every other president probably combined but was there a period of time if you not going well and if you go back to be a Ritz okay he's the seven and be Ritz he says the talks are back on he's got a call from these Chinese leaders they disavow it waiting of course it's not technically insider trading because there are no technical insider trading laws and it's all a bunch of judgments but it is something in my view that the regulator has Levinson you won't believe what I'm seeing they called me now because they've been watching the vicissitudes of this market go up and down the volatility go up and down every time trump seems what they're hearing and seeing as experts in those pits and so no did I they never called me in two thousand nine it could've or two thousand ten opened his mouth about it and they're noticing people making these trades timely and well-placed and making a lot of money people I mean how how no because cheap here and again I'm just I'm cherry picking now but were you able to go back in time and see if anything like this ever happened before so I mean the answer is no say that would be in your view you mean to me well let me all right oh I didn't do an expert text the history of the market and by the way I was a banker okay I wasn't a trade but I've been doing this welcome back to fast money before the break you heard from the author Vanity Fair's bombshell expose questioning the timing of some big money trades in the futures markets many of those through executed ahead of market-moving comments from president trump our next guest was plugged in listen to the entire conversation he's got a lot to say let's bring in Jacob Frankel partner at Dickinson I should look at and not just brush off by the way I'm not I'm just being repertory people traders in the pets telling me this I think reporting back for example I'm not entirely but President Obama I think in early two thousand and nine I believe said something to the effect that I'm paraphrasing but the stock market looks awfully regulator side of the story a former SE lawyer joins us with what he thinks of the Vanity Fair report stick with US right back An intern at the Wall Street Journal ages ago the one thing that I learned that six today is the too short paragraph to be sure the caveat in this whole thing so as a reporter for says I want all they can do that I can't do that so if they do all that and it's perfectly fine no harm no foul then fine it's just an when the SEC or the CFTC actually spends the time seeing who made these trades actually has conversations with the people who did it and they say Oh oh I didn't even know I was on vacation I was traveling through Arizona had no idea that trump was in China whatever they happen to say if it just like if you think of a big portfolio you see all the time on massive trading desk you'll see Delta hedging go on in the last fifteen minutes of the trading day which may be balancing up another portfolio that attention that some traders in the pits told me and I reported on it Okay Bill Thank you so much fair up next we'll hear from the I said these are large targeted trades okay they're in they went both ways it weren't always just long right there were some short ones and so when you start to think about the on based on the information that we have now how a case would unfold most of the time you actually have investigations at open based on and former senior enforcement lawyer for the Sec Jacob also worked as a US federal criminal prosecutor corruption and Financial Crimes Bill Cohen is also still with us some generalized information that in of itself may not be the foundation or may not be sufficient to establish a violation obviously whistleblower programs regulators are getting access to much more and better quality information that that often lets them be further along in that in that investigative process but to get to the end a non that gave rise to these traits the bar in terms of opening investigation and the bar of actually finding wrongdoing they're completely different though Jacob I would assume is on his buying whole foods wholefoods shoots somebody buys a million shares the FCC is going to call them up and say hey what's going and I wanNA know I wanNA look at your trading records I want to see what your did he is a firm's compliance system and so there should be at least on some level a mini internal investigation each of these firms to determine whether there was any I would assume that the bar to prove that something was actually a crime was committed is much more difficult than simply opening investigation so what's your take very high but again a lot of investigations open their pursued and then closed I think that's ultimately what happens here if there is an so you know what here's this story could fall short look the story could fall short when the regulators investigate it we're not talking about equities here I mean a lot of a lot of trading on the you know when we're talking about futures trading the classical it wouldn't be an insider trading case so there wouldn't necessarily have to be an insider involved in terms of disseminating information to the trader or the Group of traders would not apply in the futures market markets but the misappropriation theory the fundamental concept here is was there fraud in connection with the trae trade traded knew about the duty and basically inherited the duty to keep information confidential and then trade it I think the bar here to bring even a civil case is your was that was the headline itself I think the way bill summarized the story really was accurate and that is that is that for there to be an insider trading investigation is usually anomalous stories of insider trading little apply in the equities markets do not apply it's really more of the misappropriation theory that somebody had a duty there was a breach of that duty the investigation by the regulators so I'm sorry Jacob Levin let me just get the straight this this sort of investigation a case would be built trading in advance announcement that announcement causes there to be a sudden price movement either up or down and as and often particularly equities the time and you're seeing Pop June twenty eight was quarter end and that's where I would push back bill but a quarter quarter end you might have seen a massive rebound it is not the classic corporate insider but if we look at cases that involve political insiders obviously if if for some reason in the saying that there was a book that there was a violation there are grounds to investigate I would agree with that and to me it's not just the regulator should investigate the other proper party to investigate investigation that someone was able to find that an adviser to a senior government official who knew that these announcements going to be made and in the classical sense that we think about using the using the whole foods example with Amazon you know that bill used before that scenario same if we're talking about a civil case you still need to put you still need to prove recklessness you stealing to prove some element of intent you know trading rule but again that talked about fraud and deception it wasn't really the classical insider trading as we look at as we look out on the equity side so yes I've always frankly wondered I know the insider trading laws apply to the equity markets but obviously as we've seen there's a ton of money that could be made on whatever it is talk with the SEC has a lot of work to do some of the trades I don't want anybody cheating in this mark nice so I think everybody feels that I think there's a lot of work to bell when I was a the novelist trading is the reason that you investigate that is the obligation the investigator has said in in you know in a segment a few minutes ago he wasn't are the firms which these traitors worked because in that in that unlikely event that there actually was a problem here one of the things that's always stress test it has one of the most simplistic way to look at it that's really how the FTC is approaching its cases post dodd frank it established the insider it would be that would be a blockbuster that would get people on the street talking look I appreciate what Jacob said very much and Erzen picked up the phone and called something that person knew about the duty yeah that's a game changer but it's unlikely that that's what we're going to find but that's really what would need misappropriating money in the futures markets same with the bond market the bond market is what four times the size of the stock market right we know that there's a lot of information conveyed in the bond market the floor have an idea whose putting an order I'm just trying to under the trade electronially I don't know why there's such a push back here I think about it you're seeing you're seeing define reason that's outside insider trading laws to I've never understood why insider trading laws such as they are exist only to in the in the equities market they should differ fundamentally and that's what establishes the basis for

Netflix New York City partner Tim Seymour Times Square David SNP Detroit FCC Europe Suzuki Bernstein Guy CNBC trump Elliott Vanity Fair front running Reed Hastings SEC
2019/24  Midseason Review Pt. 2

Box of Neutrals

30:59 min | 1 year ago

2019/24 Midseason Review Pt. 2

"There is fox tros live on a._m._c. Grandstader michael landon nada rob james had paid them again and with your house house band michelle got three and edessa door orchestra still in the midseason break still with nothing happening michael avocado andrew jiangsu books off aw neutral. There's nothing to preview. There's nothing to review then. There's nothing going on a break and when we come back that's all we have boy has is <hes> <hes> santa fix and studio minutes to try to sway widening gary. That's all a one santa. Fix admitted darren tate was about a minute and it would be perfect for this week's chart in which nothing much going on but we will talk to you about the champion. If you've never i heard on championship that may have a dozen easiest the <hes> the start in formula three championship will be reviewing that as well as the kazan bake rally championship super sixteen fifty class thrilling season they having you can rest the children's mutual always in asia within sped dragging it two realms beyond you'll even anyone's comprehension conway issued stop date. It's category listing for box of neutrals this way where abbas our young bob the chaumet mcginley trail he he said f one is bullshit because just go round in circles they don't go anywhere aw michael and james books of neutral during the midseason break yes halfway through halfway through the season halfway through twenty twenty-one ramsey's in twelve rounds in what more you want. What more can we give you. Nothing's being going on all the news you bring reading on the internet old news. Seoul south thirty happened exactly i'm onto my third team on the twenty nine hundred of defect after three races at haas of which i won the australian great. What are they complaining about. The all these now i ah changed teams in the middle of the season because i was doing a gasoline house berated because i did it twice in the parade because it was writing and for whatever reason a super software the option of choice as opposed to maybe it's so i had to pay twice. I was berated by benjamin saying you need to you need to strike up young boy and a stop flowing right so well suffuses. I'm gonna go to read so just management berates. You either do performance yeah the place you as as well so you know you thought i built up enough so brandon points to have one halo of rice wins arena <hes>. I wanted to become from the number two driver except somebody off kick. Then ricardo has at the tape and <hes> he's ended up at haas so sexy oh chew at asli using the ability to change teams the ultimate combination sort the moment of kicked kevin magnusson navaja. He's up at williams and then <hes> <hes> upward with williams. Arguably ricardo is up at harvard making. I'll give it myself dot deal. <hes> um gave myself a very very <hes> the value of my contract. He's very lucky. Beta where i'm at right now go to very good deal steel so so i look forward to <hes> racing for s._p. Pessoa racing points by the singapore grown pray sergio perez rising point. I it's a great guy always obviously play the game has been apart from the sort of back pot of they say and has been one of the highlights of the two so fictional the world entirely of your own making yes which is just sacking highly accomplished for over two one moving draft you got the sack laced one because it doesn't happen very often. Where we have midseason driver changes. I mean if people frost over end-of-season bryk driver changes midseason the draft would absolut absolutely guy off wine institute some kind of draft system way by all contracts. This can be changed halfway through at this point in the this week in the year. All contracts are essentially annulled month contracts and you could draft in someone from the w._a._c. You say you're from any way you like some college of sating rankings system so promotion relegation all that sort of thing past nada would've been stuffed in that the system but maybe he would have come back as a wildcard william lava driver with a lot of money. Not venezuelans have that much money. They love to try. They'd love to find out out and you know rich. Energy would be right there with some kind of deal to pick it up. I think it could be very exciting. I think if one could learn from its own game and just some changes. Yes yes what i'm saying but finally i mean the biggest change of all would be great is if we actually just got rid of a whole bunch of teams and drivers. I think might be better outcome. If we got got rid of the front running teams kind of scandal because if we had say <hes> the proposed name of formula one bait which is like crime is a poppin but so it's always the whenever cry walks into uproarious applause chimes in the f. one n- bay we this gripe parallel universe where ferrari have been disgraced out of the sport after not just for their performances yes yes i saw the ferrari group were and obviously fit. Chrysler had dissolved so that means no more japes on the road which is a good thing falsely however the human trafficking charges that ferrari face much beautiful blind on the history and mercedes as well. We're banned because i decided added. They're going to buy grain land and ted is really good really site investment and they were impeach score so irate bull helmut marko just got jacket and he i decided to set up a is just like every other form the one team on decided to get your saying. He's gonna compete against moskowitz. Marsh gascoyne and on the about a a- and brian tyler has a disgrace because he decided to school the fast and furious tyler hobbs movie whether it's called so paralyzed like the symphony orchestra as little bit ncua yeah yeah good different not not on okay why give it a guard sponsored by the seventeen so we already got fourteen drivers who invented the record. I is the district because walker go to the temperature. It's keeping us needs so you completely upset so we're well below the minimum numbers before they would be regulations active. We're gonna pretend they're only fourteen. Jive is in this championship. All the results from the top three teams of being deleted which means score runs moved opposite elite which means if you've done really an atheist going anywhere it'd be sewage treatment plant or the finest silliest girl praise on the calendar martin brundle to get him a break. It would pay the bitter cup the cart music listen to it. Oh oh that's pretty good. I'm pretty happy with that. And what does as we've had actually look like. I'm going to be on this time last year. If you calculate this championship yeah i think we might have mentioned at the end of last year. I think it was quite close. Coca cola sign as rhino teammates bernie a couple of points <hes> and of course i came after lewis hamilton dominate tebessa mentioned band escapes guard isn't it. I love how this this <hes> <hes> the unsanctioned he'd been disgraced out of the sport the clarin the one who had one hundred million dollar fine some years ago i walk on the back has a maximum thing. I've always lost quite close. It's not really at all because collar scientists really had a blunder of year in fact he he has in real in the disgraceful one as well where he's leading everybody by maybe twenty points and he's even almost beating pig as but in the bay he's up by like fifty odd point something ridiculous like that because he's had such a strong end to the first half of the season. We'd really reflects how well mclaren has being doing as well because because in his rookie season lender nurses third in the championship yeah standups as land or even a rice victory in bahrain and in australia as well. I love this parallel w._b._z. Than metaphorical formula one other game. I think we apply that next week of the moral world champion while they go through that after all these years. I've tasing that segment for us. It's a high morality segment. Everyone's had like certainly the varieties. This boss kevin magnusson won the australian grand prix buzzing craft breath course had it been realized that would have been some kind of tie problem in the in <hes> remembering john. Do you have that type of he scored. We started from pole in australia. Technical technical reminders yeah rome grant still shit still yet to be on the podium magnusson winning races he'd probably be sacked at this point in the you'd have to say but incredibly despite kevin magnusson leading the championship up to spain in fact he'd let it fairly comfortably norris to control the champions after back <hes> since spain the spanish is that was around five he's gone from. I all the way to tenth in the championship because that really your states how bad haass's bayden in fact in the season haas scored one two three four five pole positions and he's still only where are they in a championship haass's still seek second lost in the championship the average hitter only williams so it does show this is still five is the very top echelons so the the crane will always rise to the top even even our this cake to missing a couple allies mattel italian german and anglo australian flavors but nonetheless delicious narrow and ryan we have others on those the mclaren randomly partnership in the honda partnership outstanding success right now the the the state outfit your your rent basay still bang for buck notice good no but incredibly in canada which is the run saying pretty much the only power circuit ticket. We've had to die yeah. I can say that they looked out the first two rows renault and mclaren reynaud but really since then ah mclaren bordon upgrade spanish chrome praise. I'm so a couple of rounds before took me a couple rounds really figure it out as it did to be fair but whereas mclaren has gone in the last ast five rams in the former one championship has only wants not being on the podium incorrect but they've had they've had three four wins in the last five races have been decided whereas renos only gotten worse in that period of time i mean they had one podium in that period of time. A couple of days as well is being no way crashed out of the lead in germany for example. It's been a really bad no matter which championship you're considering a really bad time for reynaud yeah so it costa is parallel universes still being questioned <hes> the blowtorch very much on the banana in pajamas squad the <hes> yellow and black say well the banana in pajamas score desire official nickname presumably trailing references. Probably some <hes> say what's what's the score. What's the sky every chris katie conduct <hes> either chris katie infringed bronwyn bishop ross greenwood and your money coming how much paid programming zero this guy that old might alex molly fan home on sky tv yeah he's disappeared. He's he's been disappeared. See someone made him disappear. She'll do that has the podcasting outcast exclusive where is alex molly. We miss your t._v. Show that'd be the subtitle should get paid mcginley's especially. If you pay your money your credit. I think i could try. It would be bad. Did anyone else couple of people picked up on the easter eggs. In last week's show i don't tehran has you can go back and listen to it. Talks dot com if he misses. He's not here by the way he's not going to get an empty. Do you remember the the trillion reference your those episodes of the show they razor as all barrel or gary very great for your here fos very sorry guys boys. The fossil cut to a chair sam newman's but it's empty yeah pretty much. That's mcginley except we coming in black face. As far as i'm away yeah he's he's still contractually we are not here still got back to last week sure that if you really need an up-to-date fix you find he knows as little as willing to venture this one what's great about this. Is that every tame except for williams as actually because of course antonia gymnasts he's racing. There has one rice all five out of seven teams arise. A bunch of different drivers won races as well science not reich and then unfortunately poll lenora steadier cada even sergio perez even kevin kevin magazine. They've all won grand prix which is way more drivers obviously than we've got in the former soviet the disgraced former the one chambi. We've only had hamilton bought ass staff. Staffan wind rights is not even ferrari win rice in the real championship and despite rhino winning races still second in the championship even if they seems like signs is going to dominate these swan. There's so much more variety these chevy if there's so much more to leave for in this championship yeah but there is merit to this because at least i it does show where the top of the midfield runners up because we always side the midfield is somehow always the most interesting <hes> of the law. If if we look even the mockery midfield championship battle between norris possibly all the way through to alexander bone is quite impressive seve whereas niko for example. Let's say the theoretical a two second places in the food so any three appearances on the podium and yet denver colorado to grow praise and also appeared on the podium three times entitled in in terms of differentiating the tame right. It does the contrast actually quite stock in this room. We can pay them so i guess and elbow relatively kleist give with the advantage brought surprisingly good news whereas ricardo and huckabee for example that gaps massive it's them and also the gap between ronkainen giovanetti not really exaggerated when you're able to give everybody full points whereas i'm not sure how many points separating the actual championship it's not so many because even scientists only scored sixty auto fifty eight points points. I think i was covering my head so just be scored like one hundred eighty my theory jeeva nazi satan fix you. Oh look i i think because i like to be honest started the year ortho kimmy rock and it would be the woman because let's face it. I i think he will complete to. I think he will say out he sabah contract <hes>. I don't think he'll extend it the only fifty <hes> but farrakkhan a it will see at the year. I think she should do another season victory because like him winning around what in in hungary last time round does not raise i with next year. I really interesting point here. Is that because daddy is. There's a lot of goodwill for that joe nazi state to become shoe casino not being because the juvenile deepest solo certainly has not really had a great season scored championship one point i think even here in this fake championships down and twelve the head of only the williams drivers which is not good but in hungary where it was a really great moment to sort of be there as well because he won his first race. It was a reverse gray so you didn't. It's very three hundred pass hunger. Don't wanna talk dan. He's first race win but it wasn't the let's say the most meritorious victories people were excited because of course the first weaned formative soup mix you macaroni whatever but underneath all of that there's a really strong undercurrent of he has not had a good year and there's this prospect of him getting different the only because if he's name merit and what that does not only for formula one because he's never going to be good if he gets there and he's not good but then for the driver himself who might be be better off having a motorsport career way he can earn it more meritoriously without making it to one is perfectly several other perfectly good motorsports seiichi could occupy that uninformative for me to one the great legacy overall. I think we could have a little bit because i think arguably the biggest he gets the rifle was definitely the base in through which was quite apps given the ice in it was very good at it for about but still enhanced outstanding racing driver in his rod in sports car racing so it hasn't really affected his reputation in in that space is that a crack is not for everyone. Only a handful of drive is that can be within a single season. Let alone stand a long lasting korea korea but for his portfolio. He's portfolio of work this little learn. Maybe the last few seasons isn't the mice convincing because yeah it. It is legitimate easier on win. You'll <hes> with arguably one of the best teams in the world yes and despite being argue. I'm by by that team. If you like still this was his first win and wearing a couple rounds away from the end of the formula two season he's not in contention really for the championship this season but as we we did say last year in formula three that first win as a little bit early than the season from memory but i really kick things off then he dominated and stormed onto the championship baked antique demand now has been dropped by the drive program scenes so all of a sudden he really came alive. I think dan ticked him as we said this time last thea- alluded to there being suspicious snus in these circumstances which no one has confirmed will deny and reason to believe it just because she got on a run after getting. I mean drivers do that. From time to time. Young drivers suddenly get that confidence. It works so who knows maybe this is the confidence boost she macanese all of a sudden he will dominate the rest of the season. We'll be getting into the point the end of the year where we will be saying man. He really needs to want yeah. He's currently living in the full military standings. <hes> you know what's what's remarkable. Remember what's he's advice was not the antics santita for rucci. Aw oh boy the bad boy for oh my god he's he's currently renaming himself. If you believe the yeah the n._b._c. news media no media about what news glorifying i had a bit of a rough rounding but he's really good now racing in indycar indy here in indiana county lines in the car. Yeah apparently they've to be honest. I haven't seen any vision but but all the commentary suggests that the broadcast is a glossing over some of the history it'll be had over europe and saying a bit of a rough trump but he's he's very redeemed now. Is it nice polite boy. Well look look. I don't want to cast aspersions on indycar. Find series find people who followed a worldwide following but maybe if you've user all of the joke that were he's it might be more at home in an american racing series perhaps but not mass calvo wanted to stress that it's not like nascar at the time of this recording early this morning. There was a rice actually because you say that i didn't polkadot way bicycling if you've never seen the pocono sick it over in the u._s. It's basically imagine didn't winton motor ice why the one event hoya the most ungainly looking rice track and it's an oval track track as well which always makes everyone a little bit nervous to watch because that's where we tend to have sort of the biggest and most for lack of a better word spectacular accidents and again there was a huge involving tacoma sato former for rights and sport yes and indy five hundred winna as well <hes> legitimately too and he apparently caused a humongous accidents in the other papal people blaming him it is it's someone did touch on that. Remember who on twitter but isn't it remarkable that despite indicate next year they'll have the red bull shield that i've dealt with report technology in these sort of ultra crash tasting. I i eight six five to two thousand helmet kaban standard where basically you have a full-sized african element stand on the helmets and it will not break that we ah getting old mate from across the fence to patchwork catch broken. Catch fencing circuit is very strange. Isn't it strange strange. Imagine the interesting registered in a fun it just it was. It was actually quite stock to say not. Since the chinese korea korean grand prix without truck was just on the track became by default by accident. We really saying that. Some people still find it interesting when you say oil spills covered up by concrete dust in fact if you say i think in hungary it was an old mate michael massey the styling stricter. It was one of his lieutenants. Let's who detested the track was slippery started dancing on the oil sleek that are incumbent concrete like rolling his ankles on it. They had a describing just to show. It's good. It's like just to figure out if it was going to be good enough for the practice three to start off thrown a sort of detective in our culture. He's a he's a plastic bag with some mysterious wasp patterns by finger in it could be kyw cain. It could be anthrax. It could be flour. Let's find out yeah sure you gotta trust you. Not only your instinct but you literal tastebuds. How do we start this conversation. I can't even remember something that makes you. Maca maca is good enough probably not but you'll have a crack and probably he's going to get the formula that just seems like so much will to get him to for me to one that he might why didn't brought in under-cooked and then just by shia hope will try to improve himself in probably alfa romeo as you said because we're bored with the the narrative now magazine have fickle news. Luckily just like yeah. This is back. Oh what he is free practice ray in seventeen. O hook is pretty much. Lots even in this formula one bay series. He's a way behind george russell. He's going to score points. Three times can be rustled. Whatever this is nine times. It's not great for you okay so so the moral of the story is even if you took at ferrari mercedes and red bull because this is the thing that people get is they look at the beach field of the championship and they go that championship looks bloody. Also let's not forget. It's the netflix yes but you still. You still need to have twenty five points. He just got have have you got to get rid of the eighties. It had the top scoring points. This is cloud wolf's. Say maybe maybe the point structures stuffed. Hey we got we got there at the end maybe but to be fair to cal assigns you has won the most races in this design yes and as a bony being on the off the podium medium four-time so he's had a very strong season and to be fair as well to some of these other drivers recommended norris and particularly some of these winds have been kind of fortunate like in germany uh why didn't win that race but he's on the podium even in i think it was britain where he just sort of locked into it through strategy in fact that was the right way. Norris lead being uttered by the strategy if you remember and even in monaco where he won and to a lesser extent as genre finished second team orders kind of helped him anthea so let's say the most straightforward march to victory for collison it's not as as if he's sort of had a hamilton esq run towards the championship lead i want you can have your i can in seconds without having won a race. I think these sort of like a nice model for what could be really great championship motor the point the fact. We've eliminated three teams from the tall. Is i mean first of all. It really shows you how big that performance copies because ellison's would not get a look in at the podium. I know we had that we jim and grumpy but forget about that for a second but imagine if this was the podium we've got five different teams five and teams winning races and i think five sixty drivers winning races then if you add into that mercedes and ferrari and red bull racing performing at a similar level you'd have seven even maybe eight teams winning races and maybe the same number of drivers winning races you know we had a similar situation in two thousand twelve we had seven or eight drivers winning races and how many teams teams they were in that and that was saying is a very rare occurrence yeah but we it is possible because in the midfield that's already happening if you imagine that they weren't those top three teams it's only those top three retains at a causing so much trouble if you could somehow bring them back or bring the rest of the team's forward you would have automatically straight away this really interesting championship attention and it's such a shame that we can't have nice things. Budget cap is where it's at but this is the one of the interesting things about the budget cap nasr. It's bringing being brought in twenty twenty one right which the win also the technical rules are going to change your parents can make sport better but the problem is that old front running teams can spend as much as i like this year next to build 'cause we we much faster than the midfield teams for twenty twenty one and then that essentially looks in their advantages look at racing pointing for example who now got the old mehta strolled billions billions of dollars behind them they building that new factory trying to build a wind tunnel this kind of stuff now because by two thousand twenty one they won't be able to they're trying to catch up and you've really gotta wonder underneath the teams that can't afford to russian spin before twenty twenty one. They just going to be stuck permanently behind and also on top of that i mean williams has always visibility is already in a terrible renos. Renos got access to government funding and they're still terrible. Mclaren's caught them and possum and as a single year. I don't know i'm the more i think about and the more we see how this season has evolved in terms of the money's being spent the list of domestic. I am about twenty twenty one. The more concerned i am and the more i'm watching mortgaging except chosen. It's mckinley mabille driving into the sunset and free thousand. It's almost set hear more you bet trips into the sun then formula at books of neutrals dot com com com sorry i got into a priming now. Excuse me while i visit my local luke j._p. To find out exactly why i talk like this i had to tell my wife is my only voice andrew james. It's box of neutral. Zone was the formula one champion championship. The bed. It's based based ends for better next week will review the f. i. Formula three championship badgen. If you took your hips matt thinking this week you're the number of times the early editions a box neutral way when we couldn't come up with an obscure country just go for estonia racing acing driver. We're probably going to get one in like a year or two when you review to deter also produced a man standing rising all mostly in the rally the rally but in in a lot of i don't know what he's discharged have an oil company. Why did these serve festival didata. Why you have a european informed on buffy lovely country and could you repeat the record. If in oh well there's not really much else to consider this weekend box features because former bryk and it was won something in the wing did form the ford rice which is equipped to say he's very much could become red bull's extra yeah but if if we did sort of a sports version dot biz back up dice yeah ebbing short there we should do multi wants to get to also so then tonio juvenile sect in brazil. Let's say wow not having avi nine probably stick around for our you know what they're doing. <hes> well that the season break pop to next week finally we'll be previewing the belgian versions i finally should they are <hes> they're real quantity. This is not this is just like a couple of weeks off two weeks. None of that's all of us. Are you try growing up australia. Way between the period of december and by the twelfth to january casey plot was school holiday. Yeah that's the way that's a businesses you take time. I consolidates back. That's what i think <hes> v._i._s._a. Next week proving the belgian grand prix which ferrari will find a way to lose despite being the favorites to win <hes> you can go and subscribe folks ordinarily get your podcast apple google spotify anti gay writing intervene. Y nos <hes> enjoyed the if you haven't done to somebody or something like that. This is a group spokesman each was a._b. Mogul podcast until next ebi market this as being neutral.

ferrari williams mclaren australia hungary kevin magnusson ricardo haas lewis hamilton mcginley norris germany front running darren tate Seoul sergio perez harvard michael landon
Hashing It Out #89-Optimism Karl Floersch

The Bitcoin Podcast

1:00:18 hr | 6 months ago

Hashing It Out #89-Optimism Karl Floersch

"Hey guys. This episode is brought to you by avalanche. Avalanche solves the biggest challenges facing theorems developer in decentralized finance or defy community that is velocity security and time to finality under three seconds on the first decentralized network resistance to fifty one percent attacks. With complete support for the Syrian virtual machine and all the tools that have fueled defies growth to date including Meta mask web three DOT J. s might ether Wallet Remix in many more coming avalanche will be at parity with a Syrian for defy developers that want much faster network without the scaling issues holding them back. Get started today building without limits on avalanche by going to chat dot UvA x dot network that is chat dot av eight x dot network. Now. Entering. Comcast. Welcome to hashing it. Out. A podcast to the tech innovators bind blocked in infrastructure and decentralized networks. We dive into the weeds to get Y and help people build this technology. The problems they face along the way. Home listen to learn from the best in the business. You can join their ranks. Need. Welcome back to ask it out. I'm your host Dr Lori Petty. Today's co hosts, Dean, and John, and our guest today is Carl flush been wanting to get you on the show. I think since we started this thing. So I'm happy finally did. and. Start off with the standard way. Tell us about yourself who you are which you do. Amazing I am Carl. Flourish. Am Working on fund things at optimism. Before that, I was actually A. Consensus for a little bit working on Joe, and then went from consensus and new. Joe. Onto. Assyrian. Foundation. Working on Casper and the kind of early east to. Work and I confess that I got a little distracted with my east to work and I ended up getting really involved in plasma. Was I. I'm into quick fixes and so i. Just wanted to get give right to that infinity scale. and. So worked on plasma a layer to scaling technology. And then from plasma joined actually plasma group which Basically. You know was working on a kind of generalized plasma framework and you know, how do we actually get this? Layer to tech to be more general purpose. And from there we realized, Oh, well, you know a really, really nice way to make it more general purpose is to. DITCH PLASMA. And and go to roll up now, notably, plasma still great. But but that that was kind of the progression, and so we kind of disbanded plasma group and kind of reformed as optimism. and. So the APP that's been, that's been my life for the past few years outside of that pretty normal stuff. Cool EAT blank stare. An audio screwed up for a second side restarted again, of course are. Still. So I was thinking So I think the main topic today is likely to be optimistic roll ups. Probably, good place to start is a free to talk a little bit about. what roll ups are in general and Maybe the backstory on the development now. Sure. Yes. The kind of concept general idea of a like roll up has been around for a very long time. The kind of earliest tracings of like optimistic roll up, for instance was a post by vitale about shadow chains in two thousand fifteen. But they've really been around for a long time, and in fact, the thing that has been probably the most That is the most different from you know, roll ups today, versus the kind of early thoughts about roll ups before was I think that it is now much more common knowledge the. Limits and. Capabilities of the different technologies. So there's there's essentially roll up and there's plasma and these two are kind of the kind of. The opposite of each other in some sense, and in another way to say, that is a role us on chain transaction data and plasma keeps all of those transactions off chain. So if a user were to use a plasma chain, they send a transaction to some. You know some operators, some third party who is not necessarily a one liner. And then that party will apply this transaction and off chain Blockchain, and then post a commitment to what happened off chain. and. By the way, there are new terms for things like this like validity. which is like Z. K. roll up flavor of plasma. These names are honestly so confusing. So it's really just like on chain that's roll off chain that's plasma or just say on chain data availability off chain date availability. That's like the easiest. And so the transaction doesn't go on chain plasma or an off chain date availability, but roll ups, the transaction actually does go on chain and why is this actually useful? To kind of like give an intuition, will we want in layer to to create a blockchain within a blockchain in some sense or really machine within a state machine, and we want this property that you don't have to sink the layer state machine. If you're just thinking Blair one state machine. But if you're thinking the layer one st machine, you want guarantees about this layer to state machine. So this layer to blockchain I, kind of use those a little interchangeably because they're because they're kind of similar. Now, the Way that we actually generate the state in layer two is by downloading. Transactions in a roll up roll up where posting all these transactions on chain, and if we're layer one minor, we're just going to run the layer one consensus algorithm, run the layer one, a state transition function, and we're good. However. If we're running a layer one and we want to sink the layer to chain, we will not only run this layer one algorithm. We'll parse the layer one and pull out all of the layer to transactions, apply them to the separate state machine and sink that as well. So that gives us a kind of layer one chain and a layer to chain. and this is what gives the scale. Because if you are you know you, you have the option of sinking layer one sinking. At, being a light client of layer one and sinking layer to. You can play with what the properties the scale ability properties are of the layer to play with the trust assumptions of the layer to. And it turns out that roll up is a one of the most similar to the layer one in terms of the trust assumptions. So that's I. That was the kind of like high level. You know what we're trying to do with these layer, one state machines layer to stay machines, how these kinds of things you know? You can kind of consider them But now for like how? The reason why roll up is a little bit different from plasma. The reason like there's a fundamental limit in plasma. So because we keep the transaction data off chain in plasma, we have to introduce this availability challenge, and that basically means that the state can be indeterminate for some period of time like one week and that means that the programming model that kind of smart contract programming model is different, fundamentally different plasma than it is enroll up in the kind of worst case scenario, and so this is why we were like, okay. We need this like foot. We need transaction data to always be available. We'll always posted on chain and we will you know Sink, the the the you know the role of chain and get approximately the same security guarantees as layer one. Hopefully that made sense as a lot of information right there. So I remember looking about plasma. and. There was a kind of a lack of fundamental requirements and constraints to like. or specification in general for plasma has that changed since we've moved this concept over to relatives, like is this general framework that can be applied to any layer one blockchain under these specific constraints and circumstances, or is it or is it kind of? it can be applied to any layer, one blockchain both roll ups and plasma are just fundamental properties of blockchain architecture. And they definitely apply to all blockchain's and in fact. Many blockchain's US roll ups, but don't call them roll ups. There's Basically. I've heard I've heard from from near protocol to polkadot. A bunch of people, the near Pedal people said that they were that they are, basically, you can consider their you know many shards is You know many roll up optimistic role of chains, I mean optimistic role chains and I I've looked into or I've heard people talk about the polkadot. Architecture and it's similarly many different optimistic role of James. So it's they're all very similar and really the similarity comes from the fact that because layer one and theory I'm has this like a purpose. You know turing complete virtual machine, it allows us to build basically any construction on top of that. So like any way that we organize our state in layer to, we can do that on the layer one because it is general purpose and that is the magic of Turing Completeness and and you know a machine simulation. General framework of aggregating formation. Trust. Exactly, that's that's exactly it If, we could just go back, change the words, roll up and change the word plasma. To be something that had any. Any tie to what they actually mean the fundamental properties. Then, a Maxi's couldn't show and three words on twitter. burkle. In. SMART. Contrary. Oh. Boy. All right. We're going to be using a recording that's in the in the. Meeting here that should be fine. Just do some post processing after that. It. Sounds good. We are recording again and we continue type of that. Yeah so I what? I. Worry about now now that few of these implementations have actually hit main net and people are using them. A security involved with these things like how can we be sure? like how can a developer who wants to Tran-, utilize two solutions for scaling. Be Confident that something isn't going to happen breaks. The whole thing because this is really new like, why should someone start to develop using this technology that allows the third scale? That is a great question and to be honest there are I don't have a perfect answer. There are a number of places where these protocols can break. So, they can break in the kind of fundamental specification. Right or they can break in the verification of that Specification Aka. The actual implementation does the implementation match the SPEC. now for the actual specification. The. Way that a developer can be sure I mean, of course, they can read about the architecture more than likely. They will rely on the social signaling of people who have been established as being. You know experts about these kinds of architectures and kind of follow what other people say, and that's totally fine assuming we do actually like. Provide. Good. Provide good like resources for people to look you know, Oh, this person's has evaluated this framework and you know this, this construction actually makes sense and follows the. Game provides these guarantees under these security assumptions and of course, like. Is Only. In relation to a threat model, and so part of this process is going to be kind of figuring out what is a sensible threat model, and definitely even the experts really disagree about what a sensible threat model is. For different constructions. It's not going to be clear cut to figure out what construction makes sense I on a whole, you know roll ups that you can at least get the guarantee that you can exit from the up without being censored. That is something that you would like him by exit I just mean go from the roll up into layer one. That's like that's something that you definitely want from your construction and You know hopefully. Hopefully, the specification makes it very obvious why that property would would be preserved but then there's the implementation and that if that's a whole nother nightmare because there are so many places where these protocols can go wrong in fact. If theorem itself. Was An insane project, and it's a miracle that it actually was put together and didn't contain more bugs than it already had. and. So like this process, we are building Anna theorem inside of a theory, and so of course, it's going to be a very difficult to prospect to get right. And then not only this. What happens when these protocols go wrong? Because how do you actually coordinate a migration on layer to win? It's much more difficult to fork. If you have layer one assets locked up in the layer to you need to build upgrade ability into the layer, one contracts to actually move over to the new chain that has broken feature which. It will So this is like it's a hairy mess when you get into the practicality of. implementing. These protocols without huge amounts of bugs and having reasonable upgrade path. That responsibility lie is that is that the technical debt have to be absorbed by the developers building these things or is it? Is it is it? Adding extra responsibility and understanding to the end user. That is a great question. So, generally, it has. It seems to be the case that end users will just kind of. Too soon, extent blindly follow what developers put out, and then they kind of like what projects get some kind of social recognition as being relatively safe and secure. And, so in the end I, think that the the onus to allow a large extent is actually on the developer who is providing a WHO is. kind of using the layer to and and and kind of maintaining if they are maintaining or or suggesting I, guess is really the word suggesting a particular bridge between the layer one and the layer two. So one thing that we have been thinking about is essentially you know. The the you know when you deposit into a layer to. One thing that you can do, that's actually kind of that's helpful is you can deposit instead of depositing the the actual token. You can deposit rap version of your token or something like that and in that way, you can kind of get a little bit of safety assuming you're wrapped token. Itself has some upgrade that is sensible. Of course if you are like. Using a kind of more pure approach, and you don't have some kind of you know upgrade mechanism on your smart contract which I probably suggest. Then you just have to be ready to like quote, hard fork. You're smart contract, and like migrate over to some other chain and point your front ends to some other. You know balanced set of balances if in the worst case So these are just like things that DOPP developers are GonNa be you know need to be aware of when they are migrating to layer two protocols? Interesting. How much it still does kind of feel like. The same thing all over again. But you've moved it up layer the way that you. You know you're talking about just having social consensus about Oh crap lake. This EDM inside the VM turns out to be fundamentally broken. Let's just all go to this other vehemence idea. But what I wanted. Hear a bit more about what it is that. That, you guys are doing i. think a good kind of lake. Wreck for for this relate useful. Companion, episode is the one John. Adler from before. I was here but help me get up to speed on a roll ups. and. So my understanding is that they're doing something a bit simpler like their stay transition is basically maybe like yours. He twenty tokens only just like sending basically sending receiving Tokens As you've alluded to you guys are doing like a full on. VM. What is what does that look like? How do you? Actually go but implementing what are some of the challenges they're? Great Question. So it is I. It is a nightmare to implement these things, but but nonetheless, we we persevere and we try to find the simplest possible approach. So at a high level. All of these roll ups can have different quote. State transition functions. The state transition function of Al One is the VM state transition function, and so what we wanted to do was we wanted to preserve the developer tooling and the you know state transition function of the Vm, and so We have been working on this thing called the quote, lovie 'em and this is. The. A set of smart contracts interestingly. So so the opium the name, right, it's really Oh, Edm to an extent because it is an Edm that can be executed optimistically inside of an optimistic role, it technically can also be executed using plasma. That's way harder to bet. And so. The way that it works. We want we create a small like sandbox kind of smart contract sandbox that has all of the different functionality that you'll see in the vm from create, create to all the kinds of codes. But notably, we do not actually create a, it's not a machine level virtualization. Instead, this is an environment virtualization, so it's kind of the difference between you. Know. VM Ware, which machine level virtualization, where you kind of actually You write all the codes in solidity, for instance, and you execute it there versus docker, which instead just creates a kind of self contained environment that runs on your bare metal. and. So we we said, okay, it's hard enough to build anything. We might as well do the thing that requires the least changes and rich. You know not not build a vm inside of the VM. Instead, we can just create this virtual environment and so on a on a low level, how that works is smart contracts. The off chain kind of chain. The opt off chain optimistic roll up. You are able to interact with it almost as if it was like an side chain, so like it has. A ring copy test nut, right? It's not. It's not the same provider as L. One, but it you know you can deploy contracts, just the same you can. You know commute you can. You know trade your balances, just the same except it has one extra feature and that is you know l. one tell to communication. So you can actually send message from L L ONE TO L two, and you can send a message from AL, Qaeda Al One, but that's essentially what it's doing and we execute all of this. Off Chain in a way that if it were to ever go wrong if there were ever to be an invalid state transition that was executed off chain, we could go back on chain and prove that particular state transition. V was invalid. And the way do that is, is kind of similar to the technology that's used in stateless clients. So we we showed the, we deploy all the contracts that were touched in that transaction deployed. The storage lots prove the storage slots that were touched in that transaction, and then actually play that transaction on on L. One, and then we get one. You know one execution of transaction that we can say, okay. Does matchup with the you know what was posted or is it? Is it fraudulent? Is. What was posted fraudulent and this? This is basically to to allow us to I didn't really go into the difference between Zika roll up and optimistic roll up. But optimistic roll up the way that the state transitions are you know? The validity of the state transitions are preserved is through these fraud-proof, and so we have a fraud proof that executes a full EDM state transition function. And Yeah so that that's at a high level. What it does and the the goal is to keep the developer tooling of a theorem because the theorem developer tooling is horrible, but it's the best out there. So we we just need to prove, but I I. I love my little eave. You have contracts. What's the cost of doing that? The cost of eating and proving it on chain Was It scale with? So it scales with the number of there's the number of contracts that are touched and the number of storage slots that are touched Now, notably, we don't, they does not scale with the state of the off chain system, and so as long as there is an upper bound on the number of contracts that you can touch and the size of those contracts, as well as the number of stores slots in the size of the storage slots. Then you can establish an upper bound on the actual fraud-proof itself now the. The fraud-proof will in it. If it is proved invalid, there is you know of course, there is some cost to this, and so you definitely need a bond to be posted. When you actually submit one of these state, you know many of these state routes and you submit something invalid, there must be some kind of you know punishment to the party that submitted the invalid state route, and so that punishment some portion of that is is. Actually sent to the person who proved the fraud and hopefully covers the cost of the actual fraud-proof. Is there any. Is there any worry about Mike over economics, something like this, where the cost of proving a fraud is too high to creek? Really do so because. It's not worth it. Yes. And in fact, that is one of the big reasons why? A kind of small mystic role chain is a little bit more dangerous. Then a kind of big optimistic role of chain. It's it's very, it's interesting in this way. So the If you have a kind of chain that no one cares about then you have fewer people checking sinking, synchronizing that chain. So there are fewer people who can actually detect fraud in the first place. You know if if no one really cares to sink it, then clearly a Fr- fraud, we'll just get through without without thinking about it, and then the second thing is if there is not that much value you know to be lost or if it disruption in service is not actually you know worth it to anyone. Then yet, there is a possibility that you know spending. You know a few hundred dollars on on a fraud-proof or more is not even going to be worth it. and. So this is like. There is actually some economies of scale for these for these chains for sure. Try and John. while. This is probably a stupid idea. But have you considered like having the bond painting gas tokens so that it like flows with the? Congestion. Exactly. Exactly. So we definitely have in fact there are we need to generally rate limit? The transaction submission to these chains, and so one interesting way to rate limit is actually you know charged some kind of some kind of fee in some sense. Burns burned some amount of of value. kind end that burn could just be like buying gas token. That is distributed to the person who. Proves the fraud So so so you can even like establish a kind of like reserve of all of the gas token. That is like held, and then the the bond can just be you know gas token and pay pay the person back. So yes, this is this is a great. It's honestly a hilarious but. It's a little Funky, but it's Pretty. Cool. We're getting into like I feel like that's like navel-gazing mechanism design. Going Corey. I'll just say like. You said there are. Some, what kind of economic economies of scale associated this. Trying to. prognosticate of the future of what the state. Of the theorem ecosystem looks like and how. You almost have like. Emergent. Emerge emergent communities. Across different level twos in why they would be on the same one because it seems to A. BE WORTHWHILE TO HAVE COMMUNITIES OF People working on a specifically to together because they have i. kind of a unified. Goal and it grows a lot of like the reasoning behind. You just said, you want there to be more people more values than it's. There are enough people watching doesn't associated. There's commerce alongside and then like why doesn't it just all coalesce into a single layer to why would why? What? What's what's what's the purpose of having multiple of them? If you need economies of scale something like this? I think that there is incentive for there to be multiple layer twos. There's like you know, Oh, who's tekere using? Right? There's like there's there's many blockchain's for the same reason however, i. think it will result in some kind of power law distribution where you do end up having kind of dominant layer to change that most of the value floods to. And notably, this is not because of a kind of fundamental necessity for value to be to kind of coalesce on the same quote state machine, her same chain. It's actually more an issue because developer tooling and like a synchronous communication and he kind of like network of blockchain's is just so much more technically difficult to achieve in the next year two years, three years maybe that. It, it's not like practical for a developer to to kind of build compose -able applications across many different blockchain environments and so this is like so when, I, say, it will coalesce into one chain. There is a possible future where things kind of spread out a little bit more because a synchronous communication and smart contracts and kind of programming abstractions that we work at do more intelligent load balancing across blockchain's with similar security constraints, and so that's. Possible, but it is hard and so everything is just it's more about practicality is not about feasability. So. What does that look like you? Do you think that you might have? Like two or three roll up contracts and you get like. Defy on one of them in Games on another I, douse on another lake ones the WANNA. Be. Co. located in the same way that all the shoe stores like to be in the same area in new. York, or something. and then and so. That's one and then two is like how do is there are some form of you mentioned as synchronous communication that that you can. You can bake up to to let them talk to each other between different Roll ups. Yeah, I think that it's not crazy to think that there will be like services in in the same environment that. Seems reasonable. There might be multiple defy. Chains or many many folks of the same defy products across multiple chains in like it's it's more about like, where is the value right now and so that's like those. Those are all possibilities There are definitely It is definitely possible to do a synchronous communication across roll-ups and in fact, you can have You can't even build kind of role of chains that facilitate that asynchronous communication a little bit more, but they Okay. So so Zika Roll ups, it's actually a little bit easier to do a synchronous communication across chains because that a synchronous communication you know that it is valid the moment that it is posted so like when. When you post a new new, you know Z. K. role of state route. I didn't explain this I apologize optimistic and CK roll up roll up your proving upfront, all the state transitions instead of relying on this fraud-proof. Now, the fraud-proof is great because it gives us you know the VM, but it's bad because it really requires a challenge period and that challenge period is like a week. So if you want to send a message from. Roll up to layer one, a synchronous message, you can do it, but you have to wait a week or I mean, you can't technically wait less time, but the time you wait the less secure, your message and so I just you know suggest a week and that's based on kind of how much if they're am has been discussed before it's been dos for three days, and then you know you multiply that by two and at a day, and that's you know that's your a synchronous. Synchronous Communication. That's your time out and that's from Barry White Hat by the way. That's that that's a great great little one Zika Roll up You prove the state transition upfront, which means that a message from one Zeki role change to another Carol Jane Can Theoretically Happen You. Know. The moment is there posted to layer one Now, the the that means it does imply that Zeke that the second CK role of chain kind of interest spec some information about the first one. That, you're sending the message to kind of like cross links in two, and in fact, these are. Very similar concepts, and so just like there are going to be many many shards, there's also you know many roll ups and these roll ups can communicate through cross links and the moment though finalized the communication can go through and they're in fact there, very similar in in how how how you recent about them So yes, goodness communication is very possible. Yeah. And just just easily, you know if you have optimistic roll-ups, you have to wait for the the fraud-proof, the proving time. A make sense is that is that like delay hard coded so that you know lake my roll up in in contracts xerox ABC has to be like, no, like different roll ups, where might be coming from and be like oh? We need to wait a week for that one. In fact, in fact, it is not hard coded. It is. Solely up to the layer one contract. That is kind of. Executing the withdrawal to determine the delay period of the underlying roll up. Now, you can have it so that. There are there are probably there are ways to to kind of not to make it not a configuration like you can design a roll up that kind of like locks, these things down. So they're probably their ways to mess around with this, but like a well-designed roll up you the layer one contracts can determine. So if they think if you're for your application, you're like, Oh, I only WanNa way today, you know you can. You can just wait a day. In fact, hilariously, you can also do weird things like Oh i WanNa, trust everything that comes from this roll up. I can trust it immediately if I get this, you know. Get five signatures from the five people I trust. Then, all you know meant to the asset immediately inconsiderate finalized and and that can be totally that doesn't have to do with the roll up. It's just like a totally separate You know multi say that people are that people are signing off on or you know you can you? Can you know token? Is these these You know kind of instant exits? It's it gets crazy. Right, rates of the delays in the original contract itself. These are no these things going into going into a given application, like you said, like the kind of just have to trust that whatever application they're using made the right decisions based on their security released early, informed them on all these things like the based on what you just said. There's a tremendous. Broad range of options that may eventually be applied to all these different roll up Stan stations. Huck, how are we going to navigate this? That is a great question. And in fact, my method, my like mental, my approach, my personal approach, and this even when I talk to people I very much respect I. They may have different opinions, but I am all for like maximally giving power to developers Like I don't care that I know that like in practice, these kinds of things are going to become. Unbelievably confusing potentially, there's a potential for it to be just absolutely. Horribly, confusing you deposit eath into a layer to that has a withdrawal period of five days, and then deposit eath into a deposit contract that is withdrawal period of one day, and now on that chain, you can't think that those those two different types of ether fungible because one has a different security assumption than the other. And so it's kind of insane. But I kinda dig it and I think that the kind of. Person to answer this question is going to be like the. Amazing. Designers like Khalil from UNICEF swap. Something that that. Comes up with a way to organize this information in a digestible manner, and like this is not just a problem that is like new to the space. By any means, right. Like the fact that we sign these Meta mass transactions and oftentimes you know in the early days, we had no idea what we were signing like not even it wouldn't even tell us, it was an ear see twenty transfer. It was just like Oh. Yeah. I'm signing a ABC one, two, three and. It's ridiculous and you're just totally trusting the front and so I think that one thing that people may need to get more accustomed to is that using adapt is not just about trusting their front. I. Mean Not just about trusting, they're smart contracts. It's about trusting their front end and friends are really really in control I am I. I would say that I feel pretty confident in my ability to like read transaction data, raw transaction data, but I am very confident also that I could be fooled into signing a bad transaction that does not express my intent and so I don't. Don't think that there's really any way to get around it. Now like a question of like block explorers like either scan is going to have to figure out how do we display this information and a consumable way and dance themselves? How do we explain this information? But to an extent, we have some early examples. DX, is an early example of a project that you go to their their their website. You deposit into some thing that you don't really understand, and then you start signing Meta transactions that you know affect the state of a of a of a state machine that is you know. kind of a little bit less standard, and so it may look something along those lines i. I'll agree with you at least that. optionality for developers as good. That way like. Hopefully, the in the end, you hope that good good developers understand their users and then and then accommodate the available tech. To their users and the more options they have better able to do that. So optionality in gives them the ultimate. Availability to cater to whatever use case they're trying to solve not having that forces them to kind of pigeonhole themselves into what's available. And I, think that's kind of a hallmark of the first places you know build. Build? Appropriately to what you're trying to do. A chip. That's a lot of stuff. Try to say. As a company working for a company that tries to solve this problem, a providing interface to theorem. my mind is racing in terms. The complexity complexity involves of how the landscape is evolving as well as associated risk than relaying that to the user. Terrifying, tear these early, these early experiments with layer to are going to be very weird. Very interesting like hacks, you know broken front ends. Just. Total confusion about what is what on the side of. The users. And developers to be honest It's it's GonNa be a nightmare, but it's GonNa be a fun one and we we definitely need it. We need to go through those growing pains. There's only one way to learn. Dean. What are you worried about? Staring at me this time through. Everything. I mean, you take like. I'm like I like the idea of layer two but. Every complexity which charting brings layer to makes even worse. Because it's like starting at least everything is essentially part of one network. You kind of know where and how to find stuff with with all these layer. Two things have I, find all this shit. Like how does? How does my application like? If I build a front end for this? How does my application know what notes to connect to? It's GonNa be horribly annoying. I. Don't see anyone working on standards towards A to do that. I. Think it's important to establish those as well. As. Just, all listen. I mean. Ideally, I don't. You could probably solve it with the NS right like you. Buy The domain for your network and then encode that like authoritative like. Whoever owns the contract owns network? It just brings all these other complexities. Beyond that. Data. The other sense like? The whole concept of like I don't need a permanent record from donut purchase. Like. Layer. twos. Give you give you context to. Within, a smaller subset of people than the global state. Trusting your ruin yourself in a larger trusts, which I think is the main goal here. That is fair, but that's smaller subset of. People needs to find that context. Now, that's up to developers in marketing on and so forth to be able to advertise that in provided appropriately. It's this. Is I think just the way? The world works like. You're GONNA, have some sets of people that want to do a specific thing, and they don't need access to. The inefficiencies of by global consensus in order to do that. But they would like some type of trust Louis route so that they can operate with. I guess it Robert in a more trust US environment than what they traditionally have to your now. At the ability to kind of have equity. Across the entire network. While operating in these smaller subsets of people I mean think about the the situation of. The I know that's almost like what I used to argue with plasma was becoming a saying and how I, kind of imagined this entire space growing and that is. The same. Like the analogy of the way. The Internet grew respect to corporations. It was mostly just lands. Right? You had. You had a land. And then the companies were very. Skeptical to join the Internet because it was a gross CD place for the longest time. So do they built around? Internet, just an internal corporate corporate in it just land. Eventually, they found a way to establish a secure link to the global. So they can actually talk to each other as corporations, and then the Internet just grew and grew and grew and grew because like you said, standards grew you have better stacey protocol, so on and so forth and. The Best Practices of being its. Proper citizen of the Internet got a little better, but it's not like lands went away. Everyone has a land route, provide you a land in your. House. And you still have these things but you just. Understand, where the gatekeepers need to be and twos are are exactly what that are. But that within my opinion, they're they're the lands of today's Internet where the open permission list networks like a theory or the Internet. And you just need to understand where the gatekeepers are and what the context is for. How value in communication flows through the AT I. Don't i. don't see that changing at all. It's just now we're dealing with value. Is there any reason to believe in you? That's wrong, Carl. I really loved it. I. Really Love It. The entire concept around like standards and coming up with what is what does security really mean establishing that? Right? We have We have a a momentous amount of work to do to establish what a secure blockchain really means and like what we can accept from a secure blockchain, and how do we establish those secure kind of portals between these different different domains, in fact, by the way. I was I was asking asking Batalik about what's a word that encompasses chard and a roll up in a plasma, and you know all these different kind of state spaces and you know a what he suggested was domain I feel like that's like very, very reasonable like these are all kind of different different domains in the same. You know in the same blockchain in theory him, that should all have pretty similar security constraints. In the moment that you break some some security assumptions were just have to like prune those printers networks and just basically say, okay, you know we only accept a certain a certain standard And I and I do think that we will eventually figure that out and it's not gonna be. It's GonNa be a messy process, just just kind of as you described Corey. Like not, it's not one person saying, this is the Internet. It's just a kind of emergent encompassing of many domains. Stands today. A lot of it's GonNa be Gross. Yeah unfortunately, there is too much ponzi activity onto theorem for anyone to be. Entirely comfortable, with, my, opinion. Is there still that many ponzis other than five. Defies, a good example but the there are many. Yeah. If you look at the top. But Heck says theory. Twenty. Obama they lost their link Bitcoin for thing. Now it's just a, it's a, it's a proof of bitcoin ownership at a certain date that knits more. Heck's that goes Richard Art. So, pansies shall not be named, do not invest in Ponzis. So One thing that guy here when we talk load all these different layer twos and. The delayed levels of abstraction building on a Theorem? I start to think that perhaps it's getting to be too top heavy like the cow. Much, tim we secure. How how many tokens can we secure with one underlying token? I think just you know recently have started to transact. More lately, recently, the volume of USC. Twenty transactions is as surpassed youth transactions, issuance so. Probably issuance. So it gets to be like if we really really get past that. It doesn't take you setting up a lot of transactions to it. Easily profitable to. To use them double spins and some some little. Harmeet Relation Attacks Lake Lake. and. So especially, I guess like there's there's like a phrasing that has been used I'd seen us with roll ups, which is like you get the same guarantee security guarantees like inherited. The security guarantees layer one. Layer to emily will, can you just copy and paste this the security of this proof of work chain and double it? Sounds like re security to me. and. So I'm curious. About that. That is such. A good point. Oh, my goodness. V Little talked about problem with all of this is the parasitic problem. because. Layer, one is, of course, you know secured by maintain a theory. I'm right. I, you know all all these minors, they make a bunch of money now. One thing that scales with The value on the network is emmy the or mine minor extractable value, the more value on a network, the more money you have to gain too. You know when you arbitrage different, you know coins, you know arbitrage. UNICEF while begins something else or you know there's just free money on the network and we see this all the time with front runners frontrunners some of the top gas guzzlers on a theory of Now this emmy. When we start building these layer, two protocols actually moves into layer two. Because the you know the value that you can extract from front running and from like being being first in line is actually going to be extracted by the layer to minors, not the layer, one minors which, okay. Yes. The layer twos are committing a bunch of data to layer one posting this these transactions, etc. But a massive amount of their you know of the layer one value comes from the fact that a minor has the unilateral opportunity to front run. Now what does this mean for layer one? When it nothing is going on of interest layer, one outside of just being basically a of big data dump of. Transactions. And especially in eighth to where you end up scaling up how much data you can dump, and that of course, because of the supply increase will reduce the price. So we have this weird probable problem where money is going to be extracted at the edges, the movies extracted at the edges of the network and the inside of the network is going to grow and reduce the price of the those. Roll ups, posting You know transactions to layer want everything is using. If we're all using roll offs, which it seems very possible that you know if they're am becomes just you know a hub for many to roll ups and Plasmas, and whatnot. How are we going to be confident that the L. One miners are actually making enough money So this is this is like a crazy. You know question and who knows I, think that there are you know ideally proof of stake. Layer. That kind of kicks in that? You know it's like too big to fail argument. That's one thing that I. Honestly, like even you know for for what it's worth, I, don't know of too big to fail has great connotations nonetheless, like if the main chain, a theory m has some kind of big dispute over what is valid like the social layer figuring it out is. it's better to have one big failure that everyone like we need to figure out tomorrow or everything's GonNa, stop verses like intermittent failures across. You Know Oh last month. This guy failed Oh this month. That guy felt like you know a the overall reliability, you know I would I would be more concerned about. So these are it is an open question though and my arguments for a why the parasitic L. to problem is. A problem Yeah I I. I can't convince you that it's not going to be a problem because it's a little. It's a little concerning now. One. Thing you can do and one thing that we are thinking about and planning on doing. Is actually trying to design mechanisms to extract this. MTV. From layer to minors. So. This is this is kind of like a tangent to to layer to, but it gives us a chance to redesign mining incentives. and. So one of these ways to redesign it is is introduced. Something called me minor extractable value auctions. And the long story short. It's this interesting mechanism for auctioning off this, Emmy, the and so one possibility, and by the way, the reason why you want to auction off this emmy is because you take it away from the layer to minors who are know questionably securing the network like who knows if that's really, it's really worth it to pay them that much money. you now have a pot of money that you can use for something. and that pot of money could is, is a perfect the way to use it. Really the only reasonable way to use it is refunding public goods in solving tragedy of the Commons, and right now security is massively over funded. Pretty clear. In the future where we moved to eat two and a bunch of roll ups, it might be under funded Then hopefully, we have like social coordination similar to you know the the social coordination's of taxes and government that kind of push money back into the centre layer and like provide money to secure the network. Now, it's a little crazy of a future, but that's just one picture of it. Push back a little bit If. If that value flows to the edges as be potentially move into an ecosystem where most people are operating on layer twos because it's. More. Feasible to do so in the Emmy V.. Mujahid Direction, and of in the associated value with prices of layer one drop significantly. That's a market. The, the functionality of layer one is going anywhere. And eventually, those cases come back to layer one. and so like it, there's no reason to believe that people won't just use layer one whenever it's. The cost late, it's beneficial to do so. at maybe it's an issue with kind of how application is built. If it has that functionality your, if you want to play that market on integrating access for Spurs, certain types of use cases, but once again. That's not necessarily a bad thing because after all like the underlying fundamental value in digital scarcity and when you introduce layer twos into this type of thing, it's not like you're. The digital scarcity isn't growing or shrinking the differently. It's just being moved distributed across different things with different constraints on how it gets moved and so. There's still value in the scarcity. Scarcity doesn't really change. It's just how it gets used as there's more options and more. I guess kind of constraints announced move. So like I think, that's not too big of an issue if things get cheaper over certain period of time because the functionality isn't going away, it's only getting expanded. People are going to find a way to us and if it if it solves the front running and and back running, which is arguably more difficult issue. than. Good because like the base layer needs to be efficient and if we can move some of that kind of Behavior from market players to do certain things and certain type situations to off layers situation. Situation too. Many Times. That's a good thing, and we can deal the consequences there. So I'm all for that Once again, functionality isn't going away layer one, still going to be able to do all the things, but then you have extra options to do elsewhere if it's too expensive to do another one. One. One. Interesting note is that in fact, this problem is not one hundred percent. The problem of Emmy Reduction is actually not one hundred percent. Tied to layer twos. In other words, you can actually reduce significantly using smart contract designs on layer one, just only on layer one, and probably the most significant is if we get to a future where most transactions are shielded blinded, you know you you. Don't know what the contents of those transactions are. Then it gets to the point where you you know it's not really as valuable to be a minor in those cases and so even, and by the way, even in the me auctions, you know model, there are ways to take away the emmy the from the auction because they're just generally ways to reduce Emi v and so yeah, I. It will be an interesting interesting future and I totally agree with your point that like people will go where the cheap where the transactions are cheap. Hundred percent. Well. I think. That what you just brought up as an entirely new episode. So Might be might be best to start to wrap up here. Is there any question that you wish we would've asked that we didn't? I guess the. Probably the biggest thing that I want to learn, and maybe this is not a question. This is a question for your for your audience. stood extent is like. Actually I, honestly, I don't have a question, I tried really hard I tried really hard. It just didn't come. I thought you ask great questions. And I had a great time. So I'm very grateful for the whole thing. All, right. So there we'll appreciate that where people go to find out more about autism and yourself. So optimism dot io is, are you know shoddy little website that we don't give it up? Love to? Docs are also similarly shoddy. Get repository is very active. We try really hard on that guy. Optimism, optimism on DUB also on twitter optimism PVC, and I am Carl Dot Tech. You can go to my website. I'll post more blog posts when I finish this darn project and we you know improve the scale ability on the theory, Theorem? So. Thank you. Thanks. and. Is. took.

developer Carl Dot fraud blockchain Comcast Dr Lori Petty Dean UNICEF Blockchain Joe Corey front running Emmy vitale Heck Turing Completeness Al One opium twitter
Hayden Adams: Uniswap  An Auction-Based Decentralized Exchange for Ethereum

Epicenter

1:12:28 hr | 1 year ago

Hayden Adams: Uniswap An Auction-Based Decentralized Exchange for Ethereum

"This is epicenter episode two hundred ninety two with guest Hayden Adams. This episode of epicenter is brought to you by Microsoft Azure. Do you have an idea for blockchain at, but are worried of time and cost? It will take to develop the new Asher blockchain deaf. Get a free. Download the brings together the tools you need to get your first up running in less than thirty minutes. Learn more at aka dot MS slash epicenter. And by Trillo fits don't leave your project security audit to just any firm trust team with decades of experience at the forefront of blockchain security, researching trill of bits dot com to learn more. Hello, and welcome to my name is grandpa, crank. And my name is Sonny ogre on. So before we go into our conversation, we just wanted to let you guys know about conference some events coming up actually both sunny and I will be there. So this is this is conference called Bill, which is. Idiom huddle right debatable, which is taking place in South Korea. And so on July twenty second and twenty third so, you know, both on you are going to be there and I think we're both going to give talks at that conference. So I'm super excited personally to like, make it, I've never been to South Korea. And either actually, yeah, I actually haven't even been to Asia since I've become involved in blockchain space. Right. So, so I haven't kind of never had sort of the exposure to Asian blockchain world and super excited about that as well also just before that conference. There is a hacker Thon taking place in Seoul, as well. So that's on Friday to Sunday and we'll put a link in the show notes. So that's Friday, July nineteenth to Sunday, July twenty first so we'll also be at that. We're of course, one we're one of two sponsors event. And so, yeah, hopefully, maybe some of you either a Biddle or at or at hack on maybe do like upset meet up there or something like that. And it's going to be. Akhavan as well. So, you know, if you're interested in coming on working on some cool, cosmos, decay kind of stuff or tender men. So it'd be a really fun experience. I think I'll be on mentoring and judging. Okay. Fantastic. And yet today spoke about with Hayden Adams. He's founder of UNICEF. Unicef is one of those things that I think, member he mentioned. It was launched in doing Defcon improv, and I think I mentioned it. I remember hearing about it back, then where people all of these units fame, this new Eunice thing. And this started being quite a lot of buzz around it and became one of the first at most widely used ethereal defy project. Innova short time. So, so, yeah. That's that was a conversation with Aidan. So, yeah, let's go. Let's go into conversation. I think is really interesting to dive into UNICEF and kind of defined touch changes channels. So let's go there. So we're here today. Hayden Adams, he's the founder of UNICEF and Eunice out was willing to these things that kind of came out of nowhere. And, you know, all of a sudden was lots relative laws, but lots of lots of TV happening, and he kind of became one of the main the most use ethereal kind of defied Depp's. See I really excited out. Hey, non today to dive a little bit into, like, we'll what unis is and kind of his faults on the future of dissent. Traffic changes and decentralized finance. Thank thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me on off nature saying to hear little bit. Okay. What, what was used journey? How did you become involved in Ethiopia, m- space, and like find you way towards on UNICEF? Yeah, it might feel like UNIFIL came out of nowhere for you guys. But actually before it was even announced they worked on that for over a year. But yeah, I, I basically I was in mechanical engineering, major. So I. I spent, you know after I graduated from college I spent a year working in thermodynamics studying heat flow and car designs, but I was sort of passively following the crypto space, a good friend of mine from college. Carl flourish had joined the theorem foundation. And so he was sort of constantly talking about area and slowly peaking, my interest, and I actually got laid off from work in about a believe June twenty seventeen just as crypto. Bull-run started. And I really interested in the space at that point. And I wanted to get more involved and I decided, you know, mechanical engineering interesting. But not that interesting. And I just decided to dive into crypto and I was looking. And so I spent a couple of months just messing around learning solidity trying out token contracts, but I was looking for a real project to sort of grow in improve on and really become a contract. Developer Carl at the time pointed me to some blog posts from Vitale talking about something called a x times. Why k market maker? And so I basically started working on the first version of UNICEF Bob in October twenty seventeen and so it was basically my first project. It was to some extent it was my first big project, developer, and it was definitely my first project in crypto. So I spent a few months building a proof of concept for that. And I sort of I never really thought it would go that far, but I was, you know, I started I just created this initial website that allowed you to swap between two tokens, and then I slowly started adding features onto it pooled liquidity across multiple liquidity providers, chaining. Swap so you could go see twenty two eath and then east to another twenty and a single transaction fee payouts. And once it started to seem like this could be a little bit more than just a side project. I applied for an theorem foundation grant, and this was in April twenty teen. So I worked on it through the winter basically on my own and I continued spending it out from there. The foundation grant was with granted and so at that. Point, it became a lot more real. So I hired a Runtime verification to formalize the coatings back and formalize, the times, why k model and I hired some contractors to work on the interface. I wrote the white paper I wrote documentation, and this was through the summer into early fall, twenty teen. And then I announced it on Twitter to a few hundred Twitter followers in a Defcon three in Prague November. Second believer, November fourth twenty and then it kind of exploded from there. And so this is like, sort of your first ever software engineering project. You took on. Yeah. To them accent. I mean I wasn't mechanical engineer before. So it's not that it's not that I never I it's not that I'd never written code before the code I had written with more about, you know, it was more like Matlab style, or are Gino, robots are very, very small stuff. This is my first real, you know, the first website, the first interface for UNICEF with my first website and the contract with my first so. So the testing for the first unit test I'd ever. And so it was, you know. Yeah, it was basically the first coding project. Yeah. You also have any experience with, like trading and stuff and experience with like no dealing with exchanges as a user. Okay. So not really the user a little bit. I had used coin base, I had us bitch. I do some of the centralized exchanges and I had heard a lot about sort of some of the like I heard obviously heard about mount God's I knew about Easter delta. And so at the time I started working on Yuna swab either delta was was the decks and it was a big step forward in some ways, it, it was non-custodial which was a big deal. I kind of under kind of recognized that the exchange no longer healthier funds, and it couldn't steal them. But it wasn't decentralized. In the way, that was decentralized, and it wasn't tension, ship resistant, the way the censorship resistant, and it was kind of a pain to us. And so when I started experimenting with UNICEF, Bob, it was an experiment in being as unconfirmed compromising as possible on the decentralisation and censorship resistant front, while and on the as well. Basically. Yeah. Those are the properties of theory that interested me, you know, the fact that you couldn't shut just shutdown theory. I'm the fact that no-one control the theorem, even though no one could steal the funds and either delta, people could still shut it down people could still there were still someone controlling the orderbook hosting orderbook. There was still someone that had was able to take down the smart contracts or upgrade them or control. The token listing or take fees off of every transaction. It wasn't decentralized in the way that is. And so that's really that was like the from research side from sort of experimental side. That's what I was going for with. Eunice wab mistaken. Mr. kind of keeping reason why you cared about this particular aspect, you know, there's so many different things that you could build out in space in smart contracts base. So why focus on Shane JR? Focus on exchange. Well, I mean to some extent I kind of wandered into it wasn't something that I you know, I didn't enter the, the voice immediately thing I need to work on exchange, but it was more like I need a project to, to learn on, I need a project to figure out how to how to smart contracts work, and what they really do that just ended up being the more is spent the more time I spent building the more interested in exchange, God the more interested in automated market making I got so it kind of developed naturally it wasn't. Yeah. But it seems like funny funny. It was the most overcrowded space, and yet it was still not being served in certain ways. Right. There were a lot of projects in the space. But they all had like compromised on third and things that I didn't think, should be compromised on, or at least I thought it was worth experimenting in a project project that did not compromise on those things. Yeah. Let let's dive into Eunice off a little bit charming. We mentioned. Okay, decentralized, change you mention this market maker thing. Like, what gives you like highly blow of you of like how this unit at work for sure? Unicef off is a decentralized exchange protocol and high level, and it's made up of a series of automated makers. So, basically the way it works is that every single dude. There's a series of exchange contracts one for each token and each and each exchange contract represents an ear. See twenty two either pair, so it allows you to trade between ether twenty tokens. And they were all linked together by a factory flash registry contract, the basically holds a mapping of token addresses to exchange addresses, and so they allowed you to look up. You know, if you have a token address, that allows you to look up the exchange address associated with that token, and so each so if you want to dive into more, how each exchange contract works. Let's say you have a today pair. Right. So anyone who wants can call the factory contract and deploy this dykes changed contract, and then anyone who wants can deposit liquidity into that dykes change contract. And so there's two classes of users in one of these exchanges those liquidity providers, and as traitors, liquidity providers, basically, deposit to tokens, ether and the earthy twenty into one of these exchange contracts, and then use and traders, basically, send one token to the contract and get the other token out. One of the cool, sort of aspect of that is trying to solve is removing the need to coordinate users under an order book and you don't need to actually sort of solving some of the coordination between liquidity providers and traders, you have one of these exchange contracts. And let's say someone a little quick, provided the first equity provider, would put in an equivalent USD value of Ethan that UC twenty token. So they might put in fifty thousand dollars of eighth and fifty thousand dollars worth of die. And then there's a and then exchange between the two assets are automated using this formula x times. Why k which are calling the constant product market making formula and basically the way it works. You know, you have Tenny ten thousand nine, the contract than the constant would be ten thousand. And then if you send one east of the contract, the now there's eleven in the contract, the contract says, well, the times the die in the contract needs to be held constant, so you do ten thousand divided by eleven and that gives you the amount of die that should be in the contract, which is nine hundred nine and so it returns ninety one back to the buyer, which is the difference between the amount. That's in the contract in the mandate should be in the contract. Chapman gear district clarify is that basically the more that people are buying that the system is automatically cranking up the price and more. People are selling. It's cranking down to price. Correct. Yeah, the more the more you sell the, the higher, the exchange rate goes, and that's basically what we're calling slippage. So if you, you in general, you wanna make a trade that is small relative to the total size, and the liquidity reserves. So you know if you have a million dollars in the contract, you can make ten thousand dollar trades. You can't make. Five hundred thousand dollar trades because that will have a huge slippage. Yeah. And of course, some of our listeners will remember or episode with banker which, you know, is if you years ago now, but banker kind of similar mechanism right where you also had, like this contract on chain, and yet years. Okay. Anybody can go there. There's always a price, right? The, the contracts always willing to trade. If you whereas traditionally change, you have buyers, and sellers has to be some sort of matching. And, you know, there's no, let's say there's little equity, and maybe there are no buyers or very few buyers. Whereas here, I guess, one of the benefits is that it might work, especially well for illegal workers to. Yeah. Baker is very similar to swap, one of the main differences is that UNICEF uses ether so Banchorn? Both how they come and pair and swamp. It's either and Bancorp. B N T token, we think that, you know, sort of idea is that, you know, having ether is sort of more liquid represents the underlying token for the protocol, or the was just token of Bank or made and sold thirty percent over one hundred fifty million dollars or something crazy, like that. I don't know the exact percent they sold, but I know the exact amount that raised which is one hundred fifty three million. What's, what's the trading volume today on UNICEF versus Bank core today today is not kind of, it's hard to measure, the, the Bank or volume because they kind of track it with e volume on E O's, and their volume in the devil count through volume Fabien t, but the volume today is five hundred thousand. Context. I know when I checked a few weeks ago UNICEF has the highest volume of any exchange. It's, it's about ten it had the volume about ten x not of zero x. It is on Sundays. Not not today today, actually volume but UNIFIL hit a peak volume of six million dollars in one day about two weeks ago today's just like a low volume day. But yeah, it on many days. It's the number one. Dexin theorem. This episode of epicenter is brought to you by Markus off and the Azure blockchain, workbench getting your blockchain from the whiteboard to production can be a big undertaking and something as simple as connecting your blockchain to t- devices, or existing earpiece systems is a project in the self will the folks at Microsoft had you covered. You already know the Azure blockchain, workbench in how easy it makes bootstrapping your blockchain network pre configured with all the cloud services you need for your enterprise up their new development kit is the TD for Blockchain's suppose you want to collect data from someone in a row location. Yes. A mess and half that data package in a transaction for your hyper lender. Fabric blockchain the development kit. Allows you to build this integration. In just a few steps in a simple drag and drop interface. Here's another, great example. Perhaps, your institution working with eerie him and rely on CSV file sent by Email one, click in the death get, and you can parse these files and have the data embedded in transactions. Whatever you're working with the. Kit can read transform and act on the data to learn more and to build your first application in less than thirty minutes, visit aka dot slash epicenter and be sure to follow them on Twitter at MSF, t- blockchain, we'd like to thank Microsoft and Asher for their support of epicenter. So go back to the some of the mechanisms of how it works. So you tunnel like what's happening here is that the concept of slippage exist in, you know, normal markets as well on like any exchange, but it usually rather a in most exchanges in order books. It's an emergent property of the behavior that exhibited by the actors in the system. Right. So, you know, you'll often have market makers come into the ecosystem and providing the critically, and, you know, to incentivize themselves, they, you know, there there's a spread between the, the bid on the ass, and that doctorate crates slippage here in UNICEF. Instead of like slippage being a emergent property. It is sort of the core property into the protocol. And so can you explain what some of the rationale behind this, and what are some of the implications and second order implications of such a radical? Change to happen. We normally think about market. Yeah. Yeah. So you pretty much nailed it on a on an order book. You basically have constant bids and asks and marketmakers maintaining spreads, right? Always buy this token for one dollar and one son always always by. Yeah. And then I'll always sell it for one dollars and five cents something like that. And then the more and then, you know, the more the more expensive, you get the more people are willing to sell out that price, and that sort of creates this natural, the more you buy, the more the price lips in UNICEF while it locks you into a curve, and it says, basically, the more you buy relatives current liquidity available. It's a deterministic amount of slippage and part of what that does, is it forces all liquidity providers to basically work together rather than to compete. Right. So untraditional orderbooks liquidity providers are basically, you know, people with a lot of money, usually and very sophisticated setups. And the competing to offer the lowest bitch possible. And sometimes that actually the way it works out in many exchanges is that they basically paid paid by the company, that's you know, by the exchange of self to operate tighter spreads to give us a better rates. And then the company kick some of that money back. And so the. The, the exchange basically takes money on fees, and then they kick it back to the liquidity providers. In some ways, fully automates that it basically says we collect fees on trades that all goes back to quitting providers. But all the quitting provides argon basically offer the same the same rates in the same slippage, and then we'll buy pro Radha from all of them, and then we'll pay fees out to them program as well. Yeah, a pretty big departure. I haven't heard very many pro radically changes in the traditional finance world. But I think it's something that is very difficult to do in the traditional finance world. It's something that almost you need something like a theory to create at least in a way that it's kind of doesn't require having, you know, people custody all their funds under one person who's maintaining some, some formula. And yeah, one of one of the one of the cool aspects of it is basically reducing the complexity of market, making and reducing the barrier of entry to market making so UNICEF, basically, fully automates the spread so you know, rather than needing to constantly may be watching the price of maintaining the spread. If you're if you're quitting provided you could sort of look at where you how you think the prices of the tokens will move term. And then you can just lock them in liquidity lock liquidity, and kind of leave it in your taking more bets on the initial, and end price. And as long as you kind of expecting it some, some volume. It also allows you to contribute a very small amount of liquidity, so traditionally, marketmakers, they have they have to have a lot of money to be able to operate these businesses and UNICEF. Bob it since it lumps, everyone's liquidity together pays out fees per Radha and takes them. Pereda you could put in ten dollars, you can put in the dollars, you can put in a million dollars and no matter what you'll get a portion of the fees directly proportional to your contribution, which is the risk that you're taking in the system. So Eunice thousands of liquidity in the today, for example, swap three million dollars and more than twenty five percent of that comes from liquidity providers. You put in less than one percent of the total equity. So there's plenty of people who put in one hundred dollars or fifty dollars, and they're all collecting fees, which normally, you can't be a market maker with fifty dollars. So it almost turned it into to some extent, it can for some uses turn it into an almost. Robin Hood, like experience for you're putting in a little bit of money and earning passive income while for other people, they're putting in a larger amounts in there. Maybe updating their prices and paying a little bit closer attention love to dive in at bid this business model after liquidity provider because basically, let's say in their in their example you made. So we have three million dollars that are kind of like locked in this liquidity pool. Now let's say I put up a million. Right. So third of this, and now all of trading that's going on zero point three percent is basically a fee and that kind of gets added to deliberately pool. So I put up a third, let's say off the liquidity pool, but deliberative who now gross because fees are collected. Right. So I'm entitled to third, and let's say over time, maybe a million dollars after half a million dollars for fees are kind of a crude. The liquidity pool. So if I and so now the four million in day, even only three it was put in his cash. So I could take it out and get, you know, one point one plus third of Emilian out, and that would basically be sort of my profits, right? Correct. Yeah, there's some fun rules of thumb with it. So basically your if you take the, the daily volume times, the fee rate, which is point three percent, which is point zero zero three and then you multiply that by three hundred sixty five days a year. It's basically the daily volume times one point zero nine but you can kind of rule of thumb at daily volume times, one is the, the value fees generated so put it in a different way, if you do a million dollars in trading day on us up the news will generate about a million dollars per year fees. And so there are a prophet tied in a law fight. I'm just gonna focus on the fees and the prophets, and then we'll get into where the losses come from because they're very separate. So if you have ten million dollars in the liquidity pool, and you do a million dollars per day and trading, then you'll basically ignoring losses. You'd have about ten percent returns because you generate a million dollars per year fees off ten million in the pool, and so that's eleven million ten percent APR there's a whole lot side, which kind of you have to factor in his well. I just wanted to ask me briefly on, on this this profit side. So in the die example, you made you have any kind of works out like an interest rate, put in some money, and then these fees, and it's kind of make some return on that. So if you had a very dependable volume in a constant amount of liquidity, then it's basically just the daily volume over the total liquidity is your interest rate, right. It's a high highly variable interest rate potentially, but so what is that right now for this market, for example? Fluctuate really because of how the training works there. There have been days where the die market did. Like to two million dollars in trading off of off, like a three million dollar pool which would be crazy return. Right. It's almost like a sixty percent return on that day. If it did that everyday for a year, it will be sixty percent return. But then there are other days, does, you know, two hundred thousand dollars three million dollar pool, which is a little bit lower, but the profits in general, the DiPoto has been growing at a rate of about eleven percent eleven percent. It's about an eleven percent return right now on the die pool sort of averaged out ignoring the, the losses side, which once again, I'll get into and one of the interesting dynamic seems to be here. Right. So let's say now in this example, I mean, if you have two million dollars for trading on this market, Dan. Okay. To return will be show high. But of course, it means that as, as you incentive for anybody else to come in and like adequately to it, and then they can basically take part of this return. And you get this kind of loose. Right. So you'd expect a high trading volume to liquidity poo, kind of gross, and then returns come down again. Right. Correct us sort of expecting the liquidity pools to grow basically, the volume in my mind, the volume Dr liquidity more than the liquidity drive volume though. It's kind of both ways if, if a little bit weird, right? Because if you have higher volume and then suddenly people are more liquidity suddenly people can make better tighter like people can get better rates than they can make large trade. So maybe more people come into the market. So it kind of could be a positive feedback loop. It could be the reverse where, you know, everything's a desk viral or, you know, find some happy medium, but yeah, basically, you're expecting the pools to grow proportional to the volume where everyone's kind of expecting to get some reasonable interest rate kind of similar to where they might be able to get somewhere else. Is there any incentive for early liquidity provider? So for illiquid market, and no, I can be the first one core earlier Friday. Critically in that can help the market group, the only there's only an incentive in that if there's all ready, a high demand, and there's no quitting than while. You're the earlier provider, you're getting a higher percentage of the fees until more people join the market. But the way Eunice love works is your fees directly proportional to the to the liquidity that you put up and, you know, so you can put a million dollars, and you're the first person, and you do it for a month, and you're getting hundreds and fees. Someone else comes in puts in another million dollars, you know, they're getting fifty percent. You're getting fifty percent. And maybe, you know, they're, they're, they're willing to take less profit. And then you and so maybe you have to exit a little bit of your liquidity. It's really just proportional to what you put in. There's no early. There's no benefits just because you were there, earlier and show is your any, quote unquote on bonding period, from the crudity pool. No, it's all instant. As a provider, I could like. Given that eat like the common trading volume. I in mind center to be running some sort of node that is automatically like rebalancing my eat from, like different equity pools. Yeah. So I mean I talked earlier about how market makers could get the almost robinhood, her level experience. If you know with a little bit of work on our end but for people who are more sophisticated who wanna make higher profits. They can essentially adjust their rates by making. So, you know, people say you can't it always likes market. You can't adjust your spot price, but you really can by making a trade, and adequate, adding liquidity, or making a trade, and removing liquidity, and then or removing liquidity making a trade, and then adding back in synchronous leave us lineup series of transactions that sort of just the rate and your liquidity contributions. So there are definitely, there's definitely room for a lot more sophisticated marketmakers and something that were sort of very into experiment. With as well. And also sort of optimizing, ideally, you can you can model the optimal amount of liquidity for an asset based off certain properties, such as volatility of the asset and, and demand for. Why does that seems like a challenging aspect here? Let's say you have a market, where there's not that much to create the kind of equity goes down, then okay, but maybe I can go, and I can lend my E ON Dharma or like blocksize somewhere else, and I make whatever six percent there. But now distracting very low and you know, moly making two percent on UNICEF up. So I wanted to take my out and put it somewhere else. But of course, that means now liquid is decrease in the slippage is higher. So it becomes like even more attractive to trade. So this is kind of, like death spiral seems to be pretty likely to happen often. So that's what I was worried about when I released slop. It seems to have been the other side of the desk, viral teams, the lifestyle of like trading drives liquidity, drives, more trading jobs. More liquidity, more training goes more liquidity that I was worried about that early on. You know, it's still is possible, especially in certain if some acids change a huge amount in value of one thing, I've noticed is that. Well, but I one thing, I've noticed is that, you know, when, when they asked it does go down a lot in value. There is also a lot more trading in that moment before we get to far into this, maybe I should explain a little bit of how the losses in uniform work. I don't I think that, you know, so profits just are there just based off the volume right? And every trade that happens affects the profits in every trade is profitable for the providers. In, in, in one way. But the other the. We call it like path independent, right air. It's, it's past dependent sorry, every everything that happens on while affects your profits your fees. Yes. So basically, if, if asset goes up in UNICEF up, very high relative to the other. So you have Ethan, let's say, MK triples and stays the same as MK goes up in value. The contract. Automatically rebalanced all the liquidity providers more heavily towards east. Right. So it sells on the it sells on the way up buys on the way down, so you don't get all of the benefits of that, tripling, and so that basically loses you money relative to holding those assets. And so what you need is you need the profits from fees to outweigh losses from this from this auto rebalancing, and those numbers are really kind of deterministic. So if you put an eastern die in the price of east railed, doubles, relative to die then relatives. When you put an even you put in fifty percent value, Vive, and fifty percent value die. So maybe it's one hundred thousand dollars of each and then if eastward to Dublin value, you know, if you were holding your assets outside of Eunice welp, right? You would have you'd know have one hundred thousand dollars of dice still the dies the same, but you now have to hundred thousand dollars of eve. Right. So you're total value at the end would be three hundred thousand dollars, but in UNICEF up, it would auto rebalance some of your towards die, as was increasing in price. So Eastwood, a double, you'd actually have five percent less in, in value than you, would if you were if you held your initial position. And so, in order for that to be profitable, you need to have made at least five percent in fees during that period of time. And on the way down is the same way. Right. So basically you'll always worse off. I mean, again, ignoring the fees if you have your holding kind of liquidity payer, Dan, if you just holding even die in six correct. Although the numbers, which you're worse off is not only high and always performs in between the two assets. So one one interesting way of it's actually, the geometric. You basically get the geometric mean of the returns instead of the earth, medic main. So if normally if one asset goes up two hundred percent and the other asset goes up fifty one hundred per cent than you get between the two you get one hundred and fifty percent returns on the on the initial value versus and UNICEF op you'd basically the, the geometric mean which is always a little bit less than the medic mean so if a two x that's five percent less of three x. It's thirteen percent less off a fifty percent change. It's two percent. Less of a twenty five percent change. It's like point five percent less. But these, these numbers are really. They can all be predetermined you know, put my assets and they started this price and take them out in the end this price like you'll know exactly what that loss is. And so if you know what the daily volume will be in that time, period, you can sort of adjust your risk, and you can see whether or not it'll be profitable for you. Let's talk about security, dabs, sir pretty unique because unlike other types of software, they can hold astronomical amounts value. That's why getting systems audited, creating robust security processes and fostering a culture of security in. You're gonna say is so important and to do this, you should only trust experts with real security expertise. There are a lot of security firms in the blockchain space, but few heavy experience and track record of drill bits and they've been in business two thousand twelve long before things like the Dow Hackworth even a magical trill of bits works with your team to audit every aspect of your project and smart contract is just the beginning. They'll help you best practices around things like DevOps key storage, and user facing applications, and what's your software has been rigorously tested and reviewed by truth bits, they'll provide the tools, you need to make sure that your code remain safe over every new commit. They can even put a software security expert at your team, suppose. We'll, we'll give you vice enter your questions when you need. It's like having your own security engineer on staff. But don't take my word for it go to their publications repo on get hub to read their papers presentations, and security reviews. It's no wonder teams like parody status, new cypher and organizations like Facebook and DARPA trust drill bits for the security audits, to learn more, go to trail bis com. And if you decide to reach out, make sure you let them know you heard about them on epicenter. We'd like to thank trill bits for their support. Given that we can pretty easy to mathematically model. What the expected loss would be is there. No way, we could design a fee mechanism to the market makers ensures that it overcomes loss, essentially, where like to make sure that, like it not, not, not having it be so confident because that's another thing. I see is like the fact that it's like fix a Joe point three percent. And, you know, right now, there's no sort of way for anyone to change that, like we had the style project on the show a couple months ago. And so they actually have like this. Dow that controls the governance of this Dutch ex- exchange. And the reason that they're able to do this is that so that the Dow can modify parameters of the Dutch X in order to make it, you know, be competitive with, like market forces. And so, you know, they can change the liquidity. Shares of the fee and whatnot. But if there's no Dow here in UNICEF to do this kind of stuff. How do we make sure that off is able to remain competitive? Yeah, yeah, there's a few options and definitely dynamic fees is a open research topic that we're heavily looking into there are also proposals such as automating the fee based proportional to the slippage of the trade transaction, that's one example, or, you know, so we're looking into it, and the other option is, basically, you have a different contract for different fee, levels and liquidity providers. Could just kind of deposit liquidity and the one that they think is most likely to be profitable. And, you know, you would assume that liquidity kind of accumulates in the one that has highest fees part of the issue, there is that you can sort of. You know, then you might split up your quantity, which gives you worth rates for users. If some have quickly providers on a pair, put them in one fee level and half in another. So it it is. But it is something where we're heavily looking into ideally, governance, Dow's fun, and we would love to have it fully automated, a way that can still be profitable. And that's something we're heavily looking into and one option is also to have it proportional to volatility because that is one of the most important metrics for losses and for fees, right? There's a century remain like three or Michael three main factors. We should be taking into account one volume, which is what it currently is doing the other spread which is when most market makers on orderbook basic changes expert, their primary profit comes from is off the spread, and then the third is volatility and action take into account because like. Like based off of how the losses in UNICEF work. That is what mostly that we need to offset to kind of dealing with those three aspect is kind of the main. I mean I mean funny enough, it's been like it's been working like you know, the, the point three percent basically it was a it was a yellow from conversation with me of attack about, like, what might be the most optimal fee, and it was kind of the way the way we chose it was, basically to be competitive with other deaths and sort of not having to low not having too high, and it's actually working for a lot of markets, which is kind of which is pretty cool. So the pair, for example, has been fairly profitable. The pair has been fairly profitable for quitting providers. And it is working pretty well have with the with the yellow VM out. And so now we're, we're now we're putting a lot more time. We know we have a lot more data to work with because these, these exchanges been running for a while. It's done close to two hundred million dollars in trading since November. It's twenty million dollars lucked up. And so we're able to look a little bit closer and maybe see how different fee levels would have performed CF different types of dynamic fees might have performed and kind of model at a little bit better. And I am it is very likely. We're going to propose a version two of the protocol that add in some new features version, one of you to swap is very good. But I don't think it's like the best can be and one more thing that, you know, I'd be interested in, in version, two would be more complex bonding curves. Right. Because currently, I think, you know, x times why eagles case seems to be highly simplistic in it, you know? Action, particle on both ends and is there any reason why it couldn't be, you know, some closer to flack or like even have constant in, like Joe skews it somewhat and two is that something that one, what is the benefit of that X Y, eagles ks or something some special properties about this equation? That makes it useful. Yeah. Yeah. The special property about the equation. Is that always keeps fifty fifty value of both assets and it also and there are other other questions that might work, but it also minimize slippage, or at least that's the sort of current belief is, is that we haven't found any other curves, that would allow you to like, if you're moves like, kind of steeper in some places, and more shallow and other places than you're going to have more slippage on that on those places. And so, and Eunice while because it's kind of an even curve, you know, no matter where you are in the in the. The market, you're going to have kind of the least slippage possible, while maintaining a fifty fifty value of each now. One one topping shipping up here we flame, h is, of course, always topic for these trashy changes this topic front running, for example, like a minor can see. Okay. You're putting any big order, there's gonna be some sort of slippage, and then they can try to explode that in some way, maybe they can reorder transactions and put one of their first or, you know, maybe do some other things. So is running concern? Have you seen any evidence of people actually doing front running, and what's kind of your false in general, is definitely running? If you go to front run dot me, and I believe front run dot me slash revenue or profit. I forget, which one it is there, you basically can see a list of all fronting transactions on a theory from Phil diet. It's really interesting research. But yeah. So there's definitely front running very active on all theory indexes and any taxes. No front running unlikely. Zip for maybe unless it had some sort of centralized component to it, which is preventing it I guess is, is fairly far running resistant, and I guess, Dutch exits fairly front running resistant, but so swap the current parameters that are sort of prevent preventing some level of front running is the there's a minimum slippage parameter that you can set when you make a trade, you can basically say, I'm making my so the type of front running. That's really scary for users is I'm selling one eath, then the front runner sees transaction coming in put in a transaction, head of it, that pushes the price gives me a worst rate. And so I make a trade at worst rate, and then they trade back against my trade, and they take some profits and the, the, the most big in mechanism. There's a few mechanisms one is just the fees on the transactions. So the might if you if you do a large street in both directions on so up there really pushes the rate of significant amount in a large liquidity pool. You might actually have to pay a pretty large fee. To liquidity providers for that. But that's still you can still find traits where it's guaranteed profit for the for the front runner. So that's not really that big mitigation. There's also the men's slippage value is basically. I'm selling one eath, and current prices two hundred and if I get any less than one hundred ninety nine point seven I want the transaction to fail. And so you don't know someone can push the price head of you, but only up to the amount that you've allowed in your transaction. So that's, that's the main mitigation Nina swab the balance that you're trying to find is essentially, if you make it too tight. If you say even a point zero zero zero one percent slippage will make transaction fail than. Tr transactions could fail from normal trading volume which you don't really want to happen. You know, it's kind of bad, you all your transactions failing, so you wanna make you wanna make some allowance, but not so much that it's extremely profitable for, for front runners, another sort of mitigation is these deadline premiers, which is basically, you know, this transaction can only execute within this timeframe and so prevents minors from holding transactions and executing them at a time where it's more profitable for the minor. It prevented from them from doing holding them for too long. If you set it to five minutes, and the minor, only as a five minute window, where they can execute your trade at a better time for them and worth for you. Now, we're looking into some very cool stuff, which can help reduce front running, or extent, socialize, it, it's kind of interesting mechanism. We, we call it trader Dow, but it doesn't need to be a Dow, essentially what it is, is a pool of liquidity that grants. A specific party, first arbitrage rights on UNICEF up in exchange for rebating some of their arbitrage profits to the trader. It's kind of an interesting mechanism. But basically the way it works is I, I, I wanna make a cell on UNICEF. Wop. The, you know, like hybrid works, for example, Khyber basically, it's a unlike unis, which automates the spread they have market makers, that are posting prices, and then they have spread so they have a they have their own price. Oracle stuff each each reserve on chain reserve for token, and then it creates spread around that price. And so they'll always buy at one price sell at one price. And so you could have a could have similar contract that fits in between traders and contracts. And if I want to sell let's say, I want to sell a million dollars on UNICEF. Bob. I if I'm selling it into a pool with which only has two million dollars in it. I mean, they get fifty percents slippage transaction. That's pretty awful and the person who profits that fifty percents lipid is not the liquidity provider as you might expect the person who profits off that slippage is the arbitrary the first arbitrage to shift that rate to make the trade in the reverse direction to shift that right back to the, to the real rate, they make all the profits from that except for the point three percent fee profit. And so instead, you can have a liquidity pool that maintained it a privately managed quitting pool. This maintaining his own its own sort of price feed that has a large liquidity reserve in it, and then I wanna make my trade on units while by say, I want himself this million dollars on UNICEF. Bob, you can either do one of two things you can forward this trade onto Eunice walk in execute like normal. You can't make the transaction fail. You can Ford UNICEF wab or you can execute this trait on UNICEF. Walk and then. Synchronous -ly execute the arbitrage. Back. And then, you know if this shift the right fifty percent you can shift the right back from fifty two to forty five and then. And then I will get, you know, L only five percents lipids, and then the person who who's pushes the price back. The what the traitor dial basically could take profits on shifting the, the rest of the way. So the five percent two zero percent. So that basically is. An interesting way of giving better execution to users and reducing slippage for large trades. So kind of make sense that doesn't make sense in a high level. Duff to speak a little bit about sent tries Shane's is in general, so we've kind of talked about how Eunice works. But what do you think are some of the unique failings? And like use cases where you think that maybe Sentras exchanges or UNICEF in particular, they really have like an advantage versus centralized exchanges? Yeah. I mean there are all sorts of problems with with centralized exchanges. Amount gog. Sure, but that's the one people point two, but like you can look two weeks ago to bind ans- losing fifty million dollars. Bitcoin or right? So the biggest the biggest vulnerability the biggest problem with centralized exchanges is probably security. But then they also you know, they can shut down your account. I have a bitch account and they removed all trading in New York. They deactivated my account this week. Talking to log you fix. If I if I didn't withdraw funds and time than I would have lost them all never been able to withdraw. Another example is someone send some zero x tokens tonight. They asked me for my coin base address to give you some eath. They didn't realize that they were sending these e r x tokens. Would you send to a theorem address on coin base, but because I was in New York. I was actually not allowed to withdraw them. So they're just permanently locked coin base Ziara tokens, because I thought I was getting paid and eath anyway. So that's like another example of centralized exchanges, not being so great. So there's all sorts of security issues. There's all sorts of issues with censorship and things getting shut down. They're also they're also charging fees, right? Coin base, if I want to buy them eath, it's like a one percent fee or something. Crazy. Swap tries to lower two point three percent. Yeah. You mostly asking about decentralized versus centralized or decentralized, other decentralized. I think that was good. I mean one one or two things that I encourage our listeners to, to watch. This is great talk by Arthur, Hayes and. I think CEO or one of the founders of disease change called bit mix and bit Mexes think the largest volume of trading platform. It's so silly thing quite different from Vina's, but gigantic volumes, and it's interesting because it's talk about these changes. And of course he runs essential change. But then, you know, he basically says, okay, what are the people kind of proposing that are building these centralizing changes and you know, do people actually care about it? And, you know, he makes us all Yamin that, okay? People care about, you know, number one needs liquidity. Number two, is leverage, and those are the two most important things. And then he says, three of us, and then you'll security sort of like is nice to have, but people don't care about it that much, and it was pretty interesting. You know, because it kind of brings up the question to what extent are. These things that we kind of building out of this idealism and maybe coming to cryptovest Eddie. Okay. People should own their own assets and control the keys and stuff like that versus p things that people actually truly, you know, demand and one to value. Yeah. I think that's kind of. Yes. Not not to insult Arthur Hayes. But, like I think that it's true to some extent, I think that there are things people care about in their things people don't really care about. But, like if we don't care about decentralisation, and we don't care about censorship resistance, and we don't care about like being non-custodial, then like why have Blockchain's like what, what are any of us doing here? Right. None of it matters. If we don't care about these things, like I also think that, like, you know, hand waving security, a little bit weird, and I think that security is one of the biggest properties of decentralized exchanges that matter reducing single points of failure. I agree that you can get a lot of volume in a centralized exchange. I think a lot of people who are speculating, don't care. But I think that a lot of people who are like building decentralized projects on a theory, do care about decentralisation. I think that, like UNICEF kind of success. So far has been evidence of that. You can see some examples to kind of continue some of the benefits of a I didn't really even get through my complaints on centralized exchanges. I forgot some of them in the moment, which is like, for example, token listing if I want to list, my token on an exchange like what do you what do I have to do I have to, like, sometimes? Sometimes I have to pay twenty thousand dollars to fifty thousand dollars. I can't do it. And like if you know if you want to, you sort of, envision a world with a lot of tokens that are filling filling different use cases. Maybe you have personal tokens, maybe community communal. Tokens. Not everyone wants to pay the entry fee and one thing you can do with UNICEF. Bob is basically, anyone can create the exchange their own token, and anyone can trade it, and you can pool acquitted and there've been some really cool examples of this in UNICEF up so far. So the one cool one with, for example was the red at karma doughnuts, basically, fell when someone created a on ramp for red at karma. Basically read it introduced a feature that allowed you to track karma on a per sub read at basis, and actually transferred around and use it in, in polls. And so they created a governance system on, on the east trader separated, and they allowed people, though, sort of us their red karma, and then someone created a bridge that allowed you to turn that into an era. See twenty token on a theorem and someone ping me one day and it was, like, by the way, people are trading. Carmont UNICEF Botha's like wait. What I created by. I made a smart contract to me the front end. But, like I didn't know about this. And then, you know, I, I look through sort of the contract and within three days of this of this sort of someone creating this read it years, he twenty bridge, people traded thirty thousand dollars worth of red at karma on UNICEF. Bob, which allowed them to vote in governance polls on. And then the guy operating the bridge kinda freaked out and shut it down. But ideally, the, the social media platform would would have more decentralized, component that wouldn't allow anyone to shutdown. And another example would be like for real tokens, like spanker MK are that have not traditionally the teams behind them have really been adamant on, like not paying listing fees, and not like you know? It's been really hard to buy MK, it's been pretty high for most exchanges, but because of the permission list nature of UNICEF, UNICEF, now, six million dollars in the eighth to our pool, and it's basically become the largest exchange for K R and similarly, the largest exchange for spank tokens, which also they don't wanna pay the pay any exchanges to deliver token, and the low just exchange for one of the larger exchanges for foam, which is another project that sort of follows these values. So I think that the permission list listing allowing new into deploy their own exchange stuff like this is a big deal. I mean I totally agree with that. I think one of the places where decentralized exchanges really shine over. The centralized one is in this listing of exotic assets like you mentioned, and, for example, let's say someone had created staking derivative of bonded atoms to the course one validate or right? Like which exchange is gonna go list that on, you know, you're not gonna get bit Mexico list that and provide all these features. But like, you know, anyone can go ahead and take that staking derivative credit UNICEF off contract on it. And I think I think given that that's where I think, out of uniform really shined is that it provides some level of usability to even very low the quickey assets. And because of this, I think it works. Well where like you can have this. Like, you know, I think you've really kind of probably why we've seen uniform grow to be the largest decentralize exchange so far is because it really hit that product market thing, where like, okay, it is the one that's best for dealing with exotic assets, which is what people are actually using centralized exchanges for. Yeah. No. I agree with that. It's also there's also a US component to it. And a kind of integrations component to it where. So you to swap is incredibly simple. It's accessible fully on chain. You can integrate it into your project very easily. You can you can bootstrap your own liquidity really easily. Tighly programmable. I guess one thing that we didn't talk about, which I have, I think I saw some of the note for the was the, the aspect of liquidity tokens in this actually plays into the leverage that Arthur Hayes was talking about, basically, if you're a liquidity provider on UNICEF up, you can lock up some Lethem die, and actually while you're, you're tokens they're locked up. So if you have the ability to withdraw your proportional share, at any moment, but you also get an ear twenty token, that represents your right to withdraw that share. And so you could you basically, you burn this token to withdraw your liquidity, but you can also transferred around and it can also be used in other contracts. So an example usage, could be that you, you lock your your, your liquidity and UNICEF. Bob, you get you get your liquidity, shares you collateralized. And so you now you now have a position on both assets in your job. You didn't know maybe. Lethem K R, and you're also generating fees on us, and then you could lock up liquidity toe, you could actually take out a loan against these liquidity toe. You could open up a CD in multi. Clatter die. Or, or you could take a loan on Dharma. You could you could take a loan out against these assets trust Asli, and then you could increase your leverage, you could maybe you clatter liquidity shares and become and take out enough to become a validated or maybe improve stake when when that exists, and maybe you can or maybe you could you know, swap you could take out, you can take out some east and you could swap half of it for die. And you put that back into little quitting pool. Now, you've leveraged on Eunice about fees has anyone create a uniform market against liquidity pool. Likly tokens. Yeah. Yeah. You actually someone did create a UNICEF up liquidity pool for e to die shares on UNICEF job. Which is kind of funny, it's, you know, it kind of work to kind of make sense. There's not much of quitting right now but it could be kind of a cool way to, like onramp onto Eunice wab really easily, if you want to become a liquidity provider, and you don't want to go you just send some eath to this contract. And you'll immediately get you'll make mmediately be able to quickly provider. Another kind of interesting thing that happened as I think, compound saw this, this model that we were using that I kind of credit for UNICEF. Bob, where you have shares represent your portion of the pool and they've kind of added this thing they call see tokens or compound tokens, which are, basically, if you lend your die on compound, you get something called see die, which represents your ability to withdraw the die that you leant on compound plus any interest generated. So it kind of you can do the same thing in reverse. You can lend your Diane compound and then take out the and then you could lock those in a UNICEF. Bob pool against eath. And actually, now you can immediately. Go from eighth to go from owning. Each position to owning a interest, generating dive position and single swap on use fob, and this is actually happened. And it kind of allows you to increase your leverage once again, and this actually already happened, once again, without me doing anything with anything because decentralized, compound, some people, affiliated or just some random person took one hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of compound and put it in, in a UNICEF pool. It's a now you can swap between Easter and compound Daiei or compound in any other twenty token through UNICEF. All in a single transaction but yeah, no, I totally agree. I think that's probably the most powerful thing about centrists, changes this aspect of, like, okay you can easily integrate it and innovate on top so that speak about business mall because UNICEF doesn't many tokens like you mentioned many projects, you mentioned, for example, Bancorp, sneaks, similar, but then they put in the Banco toy. Okinawa. And of course, the banker token to an ice, yo and they own part of it. And if it's exceeded his, we'll be worth a lot of money and sort of traditional way of monetize ING cooked project. And now you haven't gone down that way. Right. There's no direct way that UNICEF is monetize ING you did raise a siege around recently, congratulations on that. And so you have a company now, what's, what's the what's the business model of that company to jump back? I think that like, ultimately, like there was this traditional those boom and everyone filling a token. But think it became clear to a lot of people that it didn't make sense. Most of these tokens didn't make sense and I'm not going to point fingers. But, like I think that the projects that are going to be successful and crypto are projects that build the best version of that they can not a version that easiest to monetize. And that was sort of the idea going into you swap that said, you know, it's a very legitimate question. How how, how do you make money on public? Good because I now office, essentially public good, and I will say that I raised money on the idea that devalues that there's value to the brand, and the reputation that I'm creating and the value to being at the center of defy and to being at the center of this, like decentralized, exchange thing, and decentralized financial system. We are still deciding we have a lot of cool things. We want to build a lot of cool things we want to build on top of UNICEF bop, and we think some of them can have cool business models to them. I'm not ready to immediately just start listing things off. But I will say that it's more about, you know like. It's not that crazy to have company that aren't immediately generating revenue that are valuable, right? A lot of projects in this current in Silicon Valley right now are still not profitable and worth, fifty billion dollars or something, I don't even know if Uber makes money at long story short. We'll see. We, we have some really cool things we wanna build. But still, I don't want to go too far down the path of exactly what it is until we've more clearly decided on the exact our percent. Did you ever consider integrating token there? Or was it clear to you from the start that it didn't really make sense? I'm not against oaken. I'm not even integrating tokens and Tina slop. Breaking news. I'm in gainst doing things for no reason. If it becomes clear that for UNICEF to make sense, we need. We need actual group of people modifying parameters, then maybe we need a token to to control that, but I'm not letting the currently the horse on introducing unnecessary feature. Like introducing a token before we before it's very clear that it's necessary. So, yes, there are potential, you know, Dow mechanisms that could make sense or you could just generate maybe you, maybe you build a contract that some service or build some cool thing on top of that takes out a little fee, and it's not built into the core protocol. I don't think that everything needs to be built into core protocol. I also something that's been kind of I'm still sort of thinking through. But something that I've been thinking about a lot recently is that in the sort of Silicon Valley model for companies has been like someone create something. They own a percentage of it forever for all turn ity, and I don't know how much that makes sense. I think that, like, what, if what Mark very created Facebook and Facebook owed him ten billion dollars. And then after after he got paid ten billion dollars like screw Mark Zuckerberg. He doesn't need any more money for what he did building Facebook, initially. So I'm sort of thinking about this idea of, like. Protocols open their, their creators, something but not something forever. Anyway, I four. Or more Farkas soccer Berg with only ten billion dollars right to four great. How how awful would it be if he only had ten billion dollars, you know, fifty percent Facebook for alternative? Yeah. So I if something I've been thinking about, like, yeah, I think that, you know, public, there is a really interesting tradeoff between, like profitable projects, and like, and like, optimal project in the crypto space, and it's kind of interesting. But ideally, you know, you can strike a balance, and I'm not like personally to worried we, we have a pretty decent runway to work with from our seed around, and we have a lot of cool ideas. Yeah. I mean that's what I think things like the z cash founding founders award and stuff also like interesting ideas. Yeah, definitely and so really quickly, you know, kind of going back to like exotic assets and your revenue model. I think one of the most exotic assets, I've heard about being traded on UNICEF. Walk is these token is SOX. Could you tell us a little bit about these? Yeah. This is the project. I really just wanted to do for incredibly long time kind of came out of these wearing one of these shirts, which were sort of cool. And so we kind of people kept telling you should create a liquidity pool for your off shirts. And, you know, I've been sort of thinking about what it means to kind of combine these digital assets, these physical assets, and so sort of a high overview of what unisex is, is we created a token socks, it's called us the ticker and the name is unisex. Version. One addition one. Each and the idea is simple. You create these socks limited scarce supplies that we created five hundred tokens and that we'd lock them in a liquidity pool with some eath and so that sets this initial bonding curve, wherever you can send east to the contract, and you get socks out, you could send talks to the contract, and you get out, but we put the because we put the total supply of all socks in from the very beginning, no more can be created directly into the liquidity PU with Efe that kind of stuff you all the way at the bottom of the curve. So every pair of socks you buy kind of increases the cost of the next one but at any point in time you can sell back into the market. So if you buy ten socks someone else buys ten socks than the first person can sell them back and actually make some profit. So it's kind of, it's kind of funny thing, but the what will happen is that every sock token will be redeem, you know, you can five hundred tokens and you can burn a sock token, and it will be redeemable, and basically give send your address, and we'll mail, you. You a pair of socks limited edition high-quality socks with, you know, with the name was a cool design on it. Anywhere in the world, basically. Well, almost anywhere in the world, Phil Diane was creating attacks on UNICEF, the on unisex the other day. And he pointed out that two ways to two things you could we couldn't send it to sanctioned countries and you can't that would be an attack. If you if you're like for into stock token say, send it to this address, sanction country. Obviously we're not going to do that. The other attack would be getting a sending ordering a few pairs of socks address getting out of restraining order for some weird person sending socks and ordering more thoughts, but anyway, that's kind of going down a rabbit hole. Point is that obviously you will only send it to reasonable location. But yeah, so every pair of socks every Thakin can be burned, and we'll, we'll be redeemable for real pair socks nail directly to your address, and it's an experiment with you X in, in buying stuff on through crypto. It's an experiment in price discovery for rare merchandise. So an interesting thing is that like, if Nike's released a rare pair of sneakers, rare, addition, easies, or something. No, there's a limited supply, and they sell them at a flat rate. Right. They'll probably usually know maybe two hundred dollars or three hundred dollars each but then there's it's whole secondary market. That's created around it, where people buy them for three hundred dollars and they resell them for two thousand dollars or the first people to buy them could sell them a lot more and strangely Nike's, only indirect doesn't really directly benefit from the. Fact that their end the creators and designers of the of the shoes. Also, they don't directly benefit from this going to three thousand dollars versus three hundred unless they maybe keep a few pairs for themselves or something like that. So the idea with this is that, you know, you put it on the sponde- in curve, and then the price of the Athens, we'll just go to whatever the value is whatever people are willing to buy for it, and the company created it the designers behind it. They can kind of directly profit from the secondary market, which is kind of built in. There's only there is only one there's no need for secondary market, because it's built into the, the primary market started that EU you business mall. It's not our business model directly. But like it's it's an experiment. It's I mean, we didn't do it for no reason. It's we technically sold ten thousand dollars worth of socks and in two days. And there's been about and funny enough, you know, we still ten thousand dollars, but people are trading them back and forth now and there's been probably like fifty thousand dollars worth of socks trading not stocks. Ratings straightening. In the past few weeks, which is pretty funny. Cool. Thanks so much for coming on eight, and it was really interesting to hear about your show up and you plan. So, I think lots of exciting things here really excited to see kind of like what what's going to come out of it with all the improvements in different plans, and rations on it? So, yeah, thanks so much for coming on. Thanks for calling. Thank you for joining us on this week's episode. We released new every week, you can find subscribe to the show on itunes, Spotify YouTube sound cloud, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you have Google home or Alexa device, you can tell it to listen to the latest episode of the epicenter podcast. Good, epicenter dot TV slash subscribe for fullest of places where you can watch. And listen, while you're there, be sure to sign up for the newsletter. You get new episodes in your inbox as the released if you want to interact with us, guest or the pike Cass listeners. You can follow us on Twitter. Please leave us a review on active helps people find the show, and we're always happening. Thanks much. And we look forward to being back next week.

UNICEF Eunice wab Asher blockchain front running UNIFIL Microsoft Mr. kind Twitter Asia South Korea Dow Seoul Blockchain founder Ethan Hayden Adams Bob Shane JR Dan Sonny ogre
Chad Brown Interview - July 12, 2019

The Horse Racing Radio Network Podcast

10:12 min | 1 year ago

Chad Brown Interview - July 12, 2019

"All right from philly dilly to the defending leading trainer he set a record last year forty six wins. He's won four. Dan is already. He'll look to add to that. He'll look for four in a row five overall tomorrow Chad add brown nice enough to join us on express fit radio busy day they all are during the forty day Saratoga meet Chad. Thanks for some time today. Thanks for having me all right <HES>. Let's get back to the scene scene of the crime last year. Forty six wins you ever. Can you ever imagine winning that many races at this meet let alone any meat no really it's hard to believe but <hes> you know we just stayed focused me he my staff and my clients and all the horses perform so well. Everything just really came together and it's really tough meat obviously the top horsemen horses here and <hes> you know we're in a fortunate position. We have a lot of horses in our bar. That can compete here you. It's your home track right and I mean that's kind of be just outstanding to to blitzed the competition like that at your home track with all your friends around and your family people that she no. I mean <hes> isn't that wonderful now. It's <hes> the best part of my year Saratoga federal all family and friends here Chan's and it is our home track. This is where I got interested in horse racing right here in the picnic. Career with my parents and to come back they run in life and being able to compete at a top level here at this meet. It's really dream come true you <hes> you and I have tried to get this interview done for the better part of two days and and understandably you are very busy and we appreciate the time do you ever get do. I shouldn't even say yet because the answer is no. Do you ever make time to enjoy yourself here because this is where you're passionate began. You know everybody else comes up here and for the most part they get to enjoy the summer meet you. Do you ever take a day and say you know what I'm just GonNa. Go hang out. I'M GONNA put on a banana nose and other than just go enjoy a day at Saratoga in the backyard. Now that doesn't happen but I do. You enjoy myself the entire even working. I'm busy. I love it and <hes> yeah some days. You're tired you might be tired physically but you're not tired of me or the job you know what I love to do and <hes> you know it's you know I wish we raised all year round and be great but I hope it all in and <hes> and I take time to really catch up with people I I don't get to see other times of the year. That's my favorite part of the meat and <hes> you know it's just it's just really fun especially winning. It's kind of <hes> I've noticed this. I don't know you all that well. We've done a few interviews together and stuff but I mean I have never seen. you smile more than you have this year. It seems like you're really enjoying your job this year. You're really having a good time at. Is that True Yeah I. I guess I mean I feel like I smile I. I'm very focused person and I guess everyone wears. A different face when they're focused <hes> for me. I might have a little bit of a serious look on my face or something but I I love what I'm doing and generally happy person. I'm lucky so <hes> but you know you. You can't always judge how they feel. I'm been happy what I'm doing for a long time. I thought it was because you spend all the time with me and and the ad moment now that will put a that's a great aunt. Yeah I was GONNA say hang out in the backyard for you but <hes> with you but <hes> there definitely I can't. I'm not incognito at any point in life. Can I go incognito. <hes> all right. Let's get to it a raise like the Diana <hes> part of the fabric of here at Saratoga. You're you're a kid growing up thinking about <hes> becoming a horse trainer you ever think you're GonNa win four of these now now. It's really amazing pinch myself that one one of them so <hes> but you know it's a race really point towards especially having strong barn full of phillies mayors on the turf. It's just one of the most prestigious races to win for a turf Mare and <hes> I know my mentor Bobby Frankel. He'd loved his race. He's got a handful of races that were races. This is definitely one of them and to have a lot of success in this race like him <hes> you know it makes. Let me feel good time whilst working with him. You've won it four different Phillies Zagora back in twenty eleven your first win and then you've rattled off the last three to sita in one of the most thrilling horse races I've ever seen I think eight of them hit the wire together with the length of each other <hes> two years ago with the incomparably the Eli last year with Sister Charlie and now I guess we start the conversation precision sister Charlie four different grade ones last year for different distances eclipse award for all the Philly in Maryland the turf <hes> we haven't seen her for awhile since that Breeders Cup win. We're talking about over eight months now. How is she doing coming into? Tomorrow's renewal of the damn she's doing great and I wish I had a prep race you know under her belt but it just wasn't meant to be you got a little sick on mainspring and the back off again but <hes> she's doing great our last couple in particular. I've been strong so when you say she had a couple of races going into this last year but she's run really well chat off the break as well so <hes> is it as big a concern as it would be would maybe another war she who hasn't fired fresh <hes> no you know when you're dealing with champion or like you said so it it is a concern but it's not as much concern like you mentioned with horses for caliber. I wouldn't be surprised at all. It should just be able to overcome it and run them down right. She'll be coming from far back on the front end. <HES> IT figures to be rushing fall. Fall she's a ahead and questionable ride slash trip in the Edgewood last year away from me and undefeated in her career she seems to be she seems to be what she is right. You just put it on the front end especially in the last three. It turned into this front running machine yeah. She's <hes>. She's very versatile horse. She you know she can run on the front. She crime from off the pace. She's done and she one great ones both ways so she's a remarkable talent Alan. I mean nearly undefeated great horse. It took a really good philly to beer to that. That philly was very well meant but <hes> she ranted awesome race herself. Yeah it's unfortunate circumstances you know say back a little sooner and she was Kinda up on a hot pace and all that but it is what it is a horse race and we've got run down but since then she's been perfect before that that's just perfect so just one little amish and other than that she had a pristine clear. Will you use your ability with her to have some options like you just said grade one on the front end from off the pace <hes>. Do you leave that up to the jock or do you just you know let her go do her thing Havi. Just put it on the front and <hes> we'll see I think he'll be on the front end tomorrow and we'll just see. DWARF RUSHING TALL far. That's the plan anyway but <hes> you know once the gate opens. You never know so <hes> once you have to see what happens I was going to ask you about this. The blinkers go on. She draws the wral <hes> the plan just to put her on the Leeann. You know people thought you were crazy in the Beverly D and She got gets beat just a length of three quarters probably triples value as a broodmare by getting that replacing <hes> and you got one of the hottest riders many Franko and you were on the Miami Amy Bandwagon early on Manny has been on fire the last year and a half and <hes> listen stranger things have happened than you getting on the front end winning a great well. She's her insurance acetate in our strong pace ace but like you saw in the Beverly d she could certainly be a factor if left alone. Hold on for Peace Bridges that Alaskan tender you have tomorrow and the one that I like the best <hes> and that's homeric who almost to me looks like this year sister Charlie comes over from Europe <hes> as a couple of races couple of wins under a belt and now Milena sixteenth first time mile and a quarter last time in the New York Handicap beat <hes> one mates stablemate competition of ideas a nice philly vault far vich. What do you think of her chances tomorrow? Really maybe getting a little bit of a class test tomorrow with the likes of Sister Charlie and and an rushing fallen them she's training like she's certainly up for it and she shows bring it turn of foot <hes> in both a racist for us. She's came in highly regarded and she's really delivered nicely versus. She is the distances.

Philly Saratoga Charlie phillies Chad Dan Bobby Frankel Chan front running Peace Bridges Maryland Beverly D Miami Amy Bandwagon Alan Franko Europe Manny Milena New York Handicap sita