6 Episode results for "Fritz Harman"

Con Artists Bites: Psychological Manipulation

Con Artists

30:28 min | 1 year ago

Con Artists Bites: Psychological Manipulation

"Hi It's Alice there and I have some exciting news for you. Catis is now airing episodes twice a week. Thank every Friday. You'll hear con artists. Crime Bites where you'll get a brief episode on a true crime thing that's related to the stories on this show it's hosted by my good friend Greg and it's fantastic listening experience. I hope you enjoy welcome to podcast. Crime Bites we wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content to help them him dive even deeper into the true crime world every week in addition to your normal con artists episode. We're exploring the most fascinating true crime themes covered across crossed the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the true crime world really is. You can find the original episodes of these for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. A list of episodes that we used will be posted in the episode description. Today we're discussing cases of psychological cool manipulation. What tactics criminals use to deceive coerce and exert control over their victims? Why does it work? And most importantly what are the dangerous consequences of these types of mental domination psychiatrist Harvey Saint Clair defined psychological logical manipulation as a psychosocial maneuver which uses aggressiveness cleverness and deception to influence others so they will give gratification to the aggressor Sir this gratification. Whether that being taking hostage cultivating followers or seducing a murder victim is the driving force behind criminals manipulative Tiv- actions they desire to gain absolute control over their prey psychologist. George Simon identified many tactics manipulators used to dominate nate their victims such as intense flattery. Playing the victim to gain sympathy and undermining a victim's perception of reality through gas lighting. So who do manipulators target. How do they select the right person to fall prey to their scheme? Dr Harry Breaker identified. The most common traits victims victims of manipulation possess among them are an eagerness to please low self reliance a desire to earn acceptance of blurry sense of identity and fear of disapproval in our clips. Today will walk through a variety of criminal manipulators and see how they identify these traits victims. We'll start with a clip from podcast original crimes of passion covering one of the most well known cases of manipulation nation in true crime history. The Manson family by manipulating in group and out group dynamics in the late nineteen sixties murderer murderer and cope leader Charles Manson radicalized his followers and cultivated intense devotion that propelled the family to do his bidding while the most famous killings committed by the Manson family where the tate labianca murders in August of nineteen sixty nine. Their first victim was drug dealer. Gary Hinman Henman's murder was the catalyst for a string of brutal killings carried out by the Manson family in the summer of sixty nine in July of nineteen sixty nine. Charles learned that the two men were in the midst of an argument. Bobby Beausoleil had purchased a thousand tabs APPs masculine from Gary Hinman but he then claimed that the drugs were tainted. Bobby wanted his money back. Charles figured that as long as bobby was asking for a refund he should demand some extra cash to help fund the families 'cause in exchange Charleston over a few family members to Henman's house to put a pressure on him. Charles knew that Henman was particularly attracted to Manson family. Member Eligible Bailey. So he suggested she go along to help persuade Henman but L.. Joe Asked to be excused from duty. Perhaps she guests at the visit might become violent. She later said that she witnessed the the family members arguing over which guns and weapons they would bring Henman's apartment instead. Charleston family members. Bruce Davis Susan Atkins is an Mary Brunner to act as enforcers. They held the drug dealer up at gunpoint. While the spurn bobby. Beausoleil beat him senseless. Eventually Henman agreed to sign over the pink slips to his two vehicles as payment. But when Bobby called Charles to let him know he wasn't satisfied he was sure Henman must have money stashed away for the next two days. Bobby Mary Brenner and Susan. Atkins held Gary Hinman. Men hostage in his home. They continued to make demands for money while bobby relentlessly beat him. When Henman told them he'd go to? The police. Bobby was spooked. He might go to prison for what he done. He called Charles. Who said you know what to do? Bobby took that as a command to silence Henman by killing him before I continue with Bobby Psychology. Please note that I am not a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist colleges but I have done a lot of research for the show. The American Psychological Association has expressed skepticism. That people can be brainwashed into into acting violently but some psychologists point to countless examples of people falling under a violent Colt influence and going on to do the unthinkable thinkable licensed mental health. Counselor Stephen Hasson use the rise above Qaeda and other terrorist groups as modern examples of how people can NBA indoctrinated into committing murder. These extremist groups have radicalized individuals through isolation limiting access to outside information and instilling an US versus them and Talapity Charles Manson uses same tactics family members look to Charles as their only source of wisdom and guidance. Some even thought he was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ Charles exploited their trust to make them believe they had to take a stand against the rich and powerful pigs of the outside world. The family wasn't just willing to kill for their God. Charles they were proud to do it. So in Charles gave the word bobby readily obeyed he stabbed Henman Mint then dipped his hand in the dying man's blood to draw on the wall. He wrote a little piggy and then painted pawprint rent. Charles had instructed Bobby to leave evidence incriminating the Black Panthers. He hoped Henman's death would heighten racial tensions and help kickoff helter skelter. Then the group left taking Henman's cars with them in this episode covering the Manson Family Gary Hinman murder was only the first in a series of killings soon after after the family slaughtered actress Sharon Tate and eight other innocent people all in a bid to kick-start Manson's prophesied race wars but Manson's use use of fear and violence was an opposition to many other criminals of the Hippie era instead they capitalized on the prevailing philosophy of peace. Jason La in this next clip from cults we examined one of the most iconic psychedelic cults of the Nineteen Seventies. The source family unlike Charles Manson the source families charismatic leader. Jim Baker relied on ideas. Like Enlightenment and free love to buy his disciples to him like Manson Baker was at the center of the source family but instead of acting as a warrior he became their spiritual father offering them love and wisdom them in exchange for their loyalty ultimately however this manipulation created an all consuming dynamic extreme dependency between baker and his disciples apples what appeared to be a mutually beneficial relationship. was actually in the service of Baker's Crowing Ego Jim Baker typically responded to complex problems by running away from them but this time he didn't cut and run this could be because as psychoanalyst. Daniel shop points touted his book. Traumatic narcissism relational systems of subjugation as cult leader Baker developed a codependent relationship with his followers. Sean writes quote the power that parents have as God like figures to literally give life and sustain. The lives of their children leaves each human and being with the memory of total dependency comp leaders tap into and reactivate this piece of the human psyche followers are encouraged to to become regressed and infantilized to believe that the life depends unpleasing the cult leader and quote and just as much as the source family members. Numbers needed he apparently needed them. According to Shaw the cult leader does not escape dependency instead he and also in many cases she comes to depend on his followers to worship and adore him to reflect his narcissistic delusion of perfection in March of nineteen eighteen. Seventy three the fifty one year old Baker managed to find a second home for his followers which they called the Father House a three bedroom three bathroom home. In the hills near the source restaurant it was significantly smaller than the mother house. A fact that would soon lead to deadly health risks in some ways life at the Father House went on just as it had at the mother. House business at the source was still booming and it still required a few dozen family members I to run at each day everyone still gathered for four. AM Meditation and spent much of the day cleaning while seeking enlightenment but another ways. Everything changed. Baker began channeling new beliefs. Constantly with an ever-expanding emphasis on his own power. He began calling himself himself by the Jewish name for God Yoho. He taught about the freemasons and ancient Egyptian magic for his followers. The pursuit of enlightenment Mintz became like a whirlwind game in which no one knew the rules in our episodes on the source family. We go on to examine how Jim Bakker's total control over. His followers only increased over the next two years eventually author number surged to over one hundred fifty people but when a run in with the authorities in Los Angeles Force the cult of Fleet Hawaii Baker or father a yoed met his end in a fatal hang gliding accident in nineteen seventy five for some. It was a death as glorious as Baker's life but but for others it was a shocking wakeup call. They realized that for years Baker had manipulated them believing he was guiding them to total enlightenment and in turn his followers had blindly obeyed his every whim but what happens when a criminal delude themselves. into believing that they're heinous actions are truly in the best interest of their victim coming up. We discussed the horrifying kidnapping napping case of Katie Beers and explore the power of self manipulation. Hi It's Alistair. I'm thrilled to tell you about a new podcast series. Sure to become your next obsession. It's cooled secret societies societies. And you can hear it. Every Thursday starting Bryant now secret societies. Let's see discover the schemes rituals and parties. You will never I suppose to know about ready to become a member here. Host Greg and Vanessa to tell you more thank you so much. They've been around for for thousands of years orchestrating. Some of history's most controversial events. And if not for their radical actions you may never have known they existed. Take a journey through hidden passageways and become a member of our casts newest series secret societies. Every Thursday sneak a peek inside the world of assassin groups. Powerful ORCA balls and debaucherous high society clubs from Yale's skull and bones fraternity and their possible involvement in the creation of the C.. I. A. to the Black Hand Military Society and their dealings at extortion kidnapping and murder in the early twentieth century. Learn the secret secret handshake. Memorize the special password and renew your membership to the most diabolical club in town. Follow secret societies free on spotify FI. Or wherever you get your podcasts. From the violence Winston separatist mentality of the Manson family to the all consuming codependent dynamic of the source family criminals have relied on a variety of tactics to exert control over their victims but perhaps the most fascinating methods of manipulation is one. The criminal uses on themselves. Denial and self delusion solution in our next clip from our show hostage we cover one of the most twisted cases of self delusion the abduction of Katie Beers kidnapped snapped in one thousand nine hundred ninety two nine year old Katie was kept in an underground bunker chained to the wall where she suffered sexual abuse at the hands of her neighbor. John Esposito or big John but unlike Charles Manson or Jim Baker Esposito committed his crimes out of the belief that he was helping being his victim. Katie came from an abusive home so Esposito convinced himself that showering her with gifts and affection would make Katie. Happy Infield loved Vanessa Zito's mind. He had rescued Katie from her neglectful family. And it was giving you the care and attention. She deserved but in reality already. He had trapped her in a literal hell on earth. Sometimes big John would come into the bunker to give Katie eighty food or a toy and then suddenly the blank look would appear on his face and he would rape her one clue about big. John's mental state is how long he remained in denial about sexually abusing Katie. It took more than twenty years for big John To admit he molested Katie and even then he denied raping her. If Big John Really believed he loved children it would have been hard for him to reconcile that with the obvious evidence. He was seriously harming Katie which could lead to denial psychological coping mechanism on the other hand. Win John. ESPOSITO did finally confess. He blamed his lawyers for telling him. I am not to admit to touching Katie. There is one explanation that falls somewhere between extreme denial and willful cruelty Catherine Ramsland Glenn. Phd Co author of the book inside the minds of sexual predators. Says one of the most common types of child. Predators is the quote fixated fixated child offender fixated. Child offenders are stuck at an early stage of psycho sexual development and rationalize away. They're abusive abusive children as showing affection. They may know their actions are wrong but their fixation on children overrides their moral sensibilities. So John John might have known he was hurting Katie. But because he was fixated and felt unable to stop he tried to convince himself he was actually helping her big John's grand gestures like the promise of a car and a huge amount of money on her eighteenth birthday seem like further rationalizations of this abuse. News he was able to convince himself that kidnapping and sexual abuse were actually a net benefit to his victim. The John had molested children children. Before and in those cases too he cast himself as a helpful male role model in their lives among John. ESPOSITO's victims Katie's sixteen-year-old enrolled maternal half brother John Beers hostage victim. Katie eighty beers survived for seventeen days in John s busy does bunker throughout her captivity while he tried to manipulate her into forgiving him for kidnapping her she used a variety of tactics to convince Esposito to let her go. She pleaded with him if he really loved her. He'd let her leave grow up. Go Go to college and have a family eventually. ESPOSITO turned himself into police though it's unclear if he was motivated by guilt over his actions or fear of being caught either way he led the police to the hidden bunker. Freeing Katie John esposito demonstrated how criminals manipulate their victims while they already have them under their control but how do they gain a potential victims. Trust in the first place in our next clip from serial killers will examine the tactics of lust murderer Fritz harmon or the Werewolf of Hanover Harmon. killed at least twenty four men from one thousand nine hundred eighteen to nineteen twenty four all between the ages of ten and twenty two to lure his victims in he sometimes offered them assistance or accommodations. Several of the young men he murdered. Were runaways this made them especially vulnerable to harmon strategic kindness so he brought them home to his apartment supplied them with food and drink then once they're guard was completely down he savagely attacked them after getting away clean for the second time new confidence. Fueled Harman's bloodlust so when he met seventeen year old wilhelm. She'll TSA at Hanover station. In nineteen twenty three four weeks after killing Fritz Franken. He couldn't help but approached the boy by now. Harmon had practice routine for finding suitable victims. He often patrolled Hanover station under the guise of a police officer searching for vulnerable honorable boys she also was a young writer who had just run away from home and this made him an easy target for Harman. Harman had impersonated a police officer and pretended to lend a sympathetic ear. To the boys troubles. He offered Schulte place to stay into warm meal. She'll say eagerly accepted the offers and and followed Harmon to his apartment. The room was small but spotless. After nearly getting caught for the murder of frank just weeks prior harmon had scrubbed every inch in fact he had been scrubbing the place with harsh chemicals so often that other tenants in the house had complained to the landlord. A widow named Elizabeth Elizabeth Angle but Harmon had long ago explained angle that he was very particular about his cleaning habits and she saw no reason to bother attendant for keeping US room tidy. Heidi besides Harmon was charming angle. Liked him his charm also allowed him to urge young boys like Schulte into his bed given his is pleasant friendly manner harmon was always able to get close to his victims without making them uncomfortable in these situations harmon especially like to ask victims about their families. This line of questioning seemed reasonable. Coming from police officer but Harman's true goal was anything but noble. He needed to know if anyone would come looking for the boy. According to Harman he didn't always feel a violent urge to kill the boys. He brought back to his apartment in some cases harmon and kept young men around as errand boys for several days. He gave them small jobs or meals until they stopped coming around other times he raped the boys always but did not kill them but unfortunately for Schulte his answers made harmon confident that no one would question his disappearance Harmon and pounced. He grabbed shelter by the throat and held him down. He raped him and in the midst of the attack sunk his teeth into shelters Adam's apple this episode of serial killers further details Fritz harmon in six year reign of terror as the butcher of Hanover. But during that time the police couldn't help but notice the sharp spike in the number of missing boys and teenagers. His crimes were eventually uncovered when the bones from his victim started popping up around town in rivers and fields when harmon was arrested and police discovered stacks of young men's clothing in his apartment after killing them. He sold off their possessions. Extra cash at the end his thriftiness fifty nece was his downfall. Every part of Fritz Harman's interaction with victims served a purpose from where he hunted to how we approach them to to how he killed them. He was entirely calculated in his manipulations. But for some criminals their actions aren't so nearly deliberate rather their manipulations populations are encouraged by their own. Delusions our final clip from female. Criminals covers convicted murderer. Diane Downs Diane grew up in a strict religious household feeling unloved. She searched for ways to fill that hole her entire life. She finally thought she found found the one. In Lieu Louison make carried on a series of fair for the better part of nineteen eighty two. But Louis concerned by some Diane's behavior. She needed his constant attention at affection. She also lied about everything spinning whatever stories necessary to keep him close to her eventually. Eventually he broke off the affair and went back to his wife. Diane was devastated so in May of nineteen eighty three. She devised a plan to win. Lou back back. If she made herself victim he would have to come back to her to save her sadly she involved her three young children in the plot making them victims as well one night. Diane took the kids out for a drive then. She staged a violent carjacking working on the night of the shooting. May Nineteenth Nineteen eighty-three detective. Doug Welsh interview Diana at McKenzie Willamette. Hospital Welsh was the responding officer that night and this was his first homicide case. Diane told Welsh that she and her children in had gone to visit her friend and Mar Cola a nearby town in Oregon on their way home. She decided to take a longer route. That was more scenic even though oh it was growing dark as she drove her three sleeping children down. Old Mohawk road a deserted country road near the Mohawk River. A shaggy-haired man on flagged her down making her stop the car. Diane got out to ask what he wanted and he demanded she gives him her keys when she refused the manse and snapped pushed her to the side reached into the car and shot the sleeping children. Diane then pretended to throw her car. Keys in the direction of the riverbank. Bank to divert the gunman's attention. They struggled for a moment and he shot her in the arm but she managed to get back in the car and race away to the hospital. Parts of the story didn't make sense to Welsh. He said quote sightseeing when it's pitch black out. And why are the kids fatally or near fatally wounded and she being being right. Handed is shot in the left arm. I mean think about it. She's the biggest threat to him. Not Three sleeping children and quote. In addition Diane's account of the events on Mohawk road were inconsistent. She told Welsh the man was bushy-haired then said that he wore a ski mask. I she said that they were attacked by one man but then she said there had been two then reverted back to one. Her evolving narrative is consistent with pathological lying the common symptom in those diagnosed with Histrionic personality. Disorder like Diane. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note L.. Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist but she has done a lot of research. The show thank Sammy. According to Dr Mark d griffiths patients wins with HP D. will often lie as a way to enhance or facilitate their dramatic and attention seeking behavior in this case with the dozens of police and doctors in in the hospital focused on her. Diana justed her story to appear more dramatic as needed while Welsh took Diane statement. Doctors fought plot to save the three downs children as we further outlined in the female male criminals episodes detailing dying down story. She had a long history of pathological lying though her previous lies never had such high stakes now with her children's lives on the line. Diane constructed elaborate carjacking story to explain their grave injuries however her attempts to manipulate investigators tres and her increasing desire for their attention exposed her increasingly convoluted delusions. Ultimately one of Diane downs. Children died from their injuries. The other two spent months in the hospital recovering. Her three-year-old son was paralyzed from the waist. Down her oldest daughter Christie initially lost the ability to speak but when she recovered it was her testimony at Diane's trial that center mother to to prison for life while the criminals are clips today utilize different manipulation tactics. They all shared one common goal to gain control over their victims yes. We saw Dr Simon's manipulation tactics at play. Diane downs tried to make herself into a victim to manipulate police. Enter ex-boyfriend John Esposito zito tried to use intense flattery to win Katie Beers. Affection even deceiving himself into believing he was saving her. We also saw that these manipulators. I chose their victims very carefully paying attention to those who are most vulnerable as laid out by Dr Breaker John. ESPOSITO's dictum was not only child but an abused child who desired the approval of adults. For many Harman's victims were runaways vulnerable to any small amount of kindness. He showed them Jim Baker identity and acceptance to his followers who looked to Baker for guidance and enlightenment in the end they all achieved their goal. All of complete domination. Thanks for tuning tuning into podcast crime bites. We hope you enjoyed this episode on the tactics of psychological manipulation. We'll be back next week with a new episode. On mother's there's misbehaving. We often think mothers as the consummate nurturers. Why do they sometimes hurt the ones they love most even their own children? If you'd like to listen to the episodes that we discussed today in full simply search for our podcast original shows crimes of Passion Cults Hostage Serial Killers or female criminals on spotify. Not only spotify. Already have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for. Are you to enjoy all your favorite podcast originals for free from your phone desktop or a smart speaker. Don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast or cast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time. Hi podcast listeners. It's Alistair if you love Kon Artis. We'd love to hear from you. By taking a quick survey your feedback feedback will help us. Continue Making your favorite shows better than ever please visit. PODCAST survey dot me slash con to answer a few short questions wins. It may seem small but your input really matters. That's podcast survey dot me slash con. Thank you for your continued support and listening. Don't forget to check out parkas newest series secret societies. Every Thursday secret societies provides a peek inside the world of assassin. Sinn groups powerful cabals and debaucherous high-society clubs. So are you ready to become a member search for a secret societies in the spotify APP and listen free today.

Katie Beers Gary Hinman Diane Downs Diane Manson Baker Gary Hinman Henman Jim Baker John Esposito murder Fritz harmon spotify Fritz Harman John John Bobby Charles Vanessa Zito kidnapping officer Diane downs Greg Bobby Beausoleil
Female Criminals Bites: Psychological Manipulation

Female Criminals

28:15 min | 1 year ago

Female Criminals Bites: Psychological Manipulation

"Hi Vanessa and I have some exciting news for you every Friday. You'll hear crime bites where you'll get a brief episode on a true crime theme that's related needed to the stories on this show it's hosted by my friend Greg and it's a fantastic listening experience. I hope you enjoy it. Welcome to podcast crime bites. We wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content and to help them dive even deeper into the true crime world every week in addition to your normal female criminals episode. We're exploring the most fascinating true crime themes covered across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some of our most popular podcast originals. To help us explore ideas like motivation tation method and madness and show how interconnected the true crime world really is. You can find the original episodes of these for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. A list of episodes that we used will be posted in the episode description. Today we're discussing cases uses of psychological manipulation. What tactics criminals use to deceive coerce and exert control over their victims? Why does it work and most importantly what are the dangerous consequences of these types of mental domination? Psychiatrist Harvey Saint Clair you're defined psychological manipulation as a psychosocial maneuver which uses aggressiveness cleverness and deception to influence others so they will give gratification edification to the aggressor this gratification. Whether that being taking hostage cultivating followers or seducing a murder victim is the driving force is behind the criminals manipulative actions. They desire to gain absolute control over their prey psychologist. George Simon identified many tactics manipulators hippie later use to dominate their victims such as intense flattery playing the victim to gain sympathy and undermining a victim's perception of reality through gas sliding so who manipulators target. How do they select the right person to fall prey to the scheme Dr? Harriet breaker identified the most common traits victims of relation possess among them are an eagerness to please low. Self reliance I desire to earn acceptance of blurry we sense of identity and a fear of disapproval in our clips. Today will walk through a variety of criminal manipulators and see how they identify these traits victims. We'll start with clip from podcast original crimes of passion covering one of the most well well known cases of manipulation in true crime history. The Manson family by manipulating in group and out group dynamics in the late nineteen eighteen sixties murderer and cult leader Charles Manson radicalized its followers and cultivated an intense devotion that propelled the family to do his bidding fitting. While the most famous killings committed by the Manson family were the tate labianca murders in August of nineteen sixty nine their first victim was drug dealer Gary Hinman Hindrance murder was the catalyst for a string. A brutal killings carried out by the Manson family in the summer of sixty Jeanine in July of nineteen sixty nine. Charles learned that the two men were in the midst of an argument. Bobby Beausoleil had purchased a thousand tabs of Mescaline from Gary Hinman but he then claimed that the drugs were tainted. Bobby wanted his money back. Charles figured that as long as bobby was asking for refund he should demand some extra cash to help fund the families 'cause an exchange Charleston over a few family members is to Henman's house to put pressure on him. Charles knew that Henman was particularly attracted to Manson family. Member Eligible Bailey so he suggested rested she go along to help persuade Henman but L. A.. Joe Asked to be excused from duty. Perhaps she guests at the visit might become violent. She later said that she witnessed the family members. Arguing over which guns and weapons they would bring the Henman's apartment instead Charleston family members Bruce Davis this Susan Atkins and Mary Brunner to act as enforcers. They held a drug dealer up at gunpoint while the spurn bobby. Beausoleil beat him senseless Eventually Henman agreed to sign over the pink slips to his two vehicles as payment. But when Bobby called Charles to let him know he wasn't satisfied when he was sure Henman must have money stashed away for the next two days. Bobby Mary Brenner. And Susan Atkins begins held. Gary Hinman hostage in his home. They continue to make demands for money while bobby relentlessly beat him. When Henman told them he'd he'd go to? The police. Bobby was spooked. He might go to prison for what he done. He called Charles. Who said you know what to do? bobby took that as a command to silence Henman by killing him before. I continue with Bobby Psychology. Please note that I am not a licensed psychiatrist psychiatrist or psychologist but I have done a lot of research for the show. The American Psychological Association has expressed skepticism that people people can be brainwashed into acting violently but some psychologists point to countless examples of people falling under a violent Colt influence and going on to do the unthinkable. Licensed mental health. Counselor Stephen Hasson use the rise of al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups as modern examples of how people can be indoctrinated into committing murder. These extremist groups have radicalized individuals through isolation limiting access to outside site information and instilling an US versus them mentality. Charles Manson uses seem tactics. Family members looked to Charles as their only source of wisdom and guidance. Some even thought he was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ Charles exploited their trust to make them believe they had to take a stand against the rich and powerful pigs of the outside world. The family wasn't just willing to kill for their God. Odd Charles. They were proud to do it. So when Charles gave the word bobby readily obeyed he stabbed Henman then dipped his hand. In the dying man's blood to draw on the wall he wrote political piggy and and then painted a pawprint. Charles had instructed Bobby to leave evidence incriminating the Black Panthers. He hoped Henman's death would heighten racial tensions and help kickoff helter skelter then. The group left taking head. Men's cars with them in this episode covering the Manson Family Gary Hinman murder was only the first in a series of killings killings soon after the family slaughtered actress Sharon Tate and eight other innocent people all in a bid to kick start. Manson's prophesied race wars but Manson's use of fear and violence was an opposition to many other criminals of the Hippie era instead they capitalized on the prevailing link philosophy of peace and love in this next clip. From cults we examine. What are the most iconic psychedelic cults of the Nineteen Seventies? The source family unlike Charles Manson the source families charismatic leader. Jim Baker relied on ideas. Like enlightenment and free love to bind his disciples to him like Manson Baker was at the center of the source family but instead of acting as a warrior he became their spiritual father offering offering them love and wisdom in exchange for their loyalty ultimately however this manipulation created an all consuming dynamic of extreme dependency between Baker and his disciples what appeared to be a mutually beneficial relationship. was actually in the service of Baker's Crowing Ego Jim Baker typically responded to complex problems by running away from them but this time he didn't cut and run this could be because as psychoanalyst. Has Daniel Shaw points out in his book. Traumatic narcissism relational systems subjugation as a cult leader Baker had developed a codependent relationship chip with his followers. Shaw writes quote the power that parents have has god like figures to literally give life and sustain. The lives of their children leaves each human being. With the memory of total dependency cult leaders tap into and reactivate this piece of the human psyche followers followers are encouraged to become regressed and infantilized to believe that life depends on pleasing the cult leader and quote and just as as much as the source family members needed Baker. He apparently needed them. According to Shaw the cult leader does not escape dependency instead he e and also in many cases she comes to depend on his followers to worship and adore him to reflect his narcissistic delusion of perfection. In March of one thousand nine hundred seventy three the fifty one year old Baker managed to find a second home for his followers which they called the Father House a three bedroom three bathroom home. In the hills near the source restaurant it was significantly smaller than the mother house. A fact that would soon lead to deadly sadly health risks in some ways life at the Father House went on just as it had at the mother house. Business at the source was still booming and it still required a a few dozen family members to run at each day everyone still gathered for four. AM Meditation and spent much of the day cleaning while seeking enlightenment but in other ways everything changed. Baker began channeling new believe constantly with an ever expanding emphasis on his own power. He began calling himself the Jewish name for God Yoga. He taught about the freemasons and ancient Egyptian magic for his followers the pursuit of enlightenment became like a whirlwind game in which no one knew the rules in our episodes on the source family. We go on to examine how Jim Bakker's total control over. His followers only increased over the next two years. Here's eventually they're number surged over one hundred fifty people but when a run in with the authorities in Los Angeles forced the cult of Fleet Hawaii Baker or father yoed met his end in a fatal hang gliding accident in nineteen seventy five for some. It was a death as glorious as Baker's Chris Life but for others. It was shocking. WAKEUP call. They realized that for years Baker had manipulated them believing he was guiding them to total enlightenment and intern. His followers had blindly obeyed his every whim. But what happens when a criminal delude themselves. US into believing that they're heinous actions are truly in the best interest up there victim coming up. We discussed discussed the horrifying kidnapping case of Katie Beers and explore the power of self manipulation from the violence separatist mentality of the Manson family to the all consuming codependent dynamic. The source family criminals have relied on a variety variety of tactics to exert control over their victims but perhaps the most fascinating method of manipulation is one the criminal uses on themselves. Denial and self delusion in our next clip from our show hostage we cover one of the most twisted cases of self-delusion. The abduction have Katie Beers kidnapped in nineteen ninety-two nine year old. Katie was kept in an underground bunker chain to the wall where she suffered sexual who abuse at the hands of her neighbor. John Zito or big John but unlike Charles Manson or Jim Baker esposito committed his crimes out out of the belief that he was helping his victim. Katie came from an abusive home so Esposito convinced himself that showering her with gifts and affection in would make Katie happy and feel loved the Nesper. ZITO's mind he had rescued Katie from her neglectful family. And it was giving your the care and attention. She deserved served but in reality he had trapped her in a literal hell on earth. Sometimes big John on would come into the bunker and to give Katie food or a toy and then suddenly the blank look would appear on his face and he would rape her. One clue about big. John's John's mental state is how long he remained in denial about sexually abusing Katie. It took more than twenty years for big John To admit he molested Katie and even then and he denied raping her. If Big John Really believed he loved children it would have been hard for him to reconcile that with the obvious evidence. He was seriously harming Katie which could lead to denial a psychological coping mechanism on the other hand when John Zito did finally confess. He blamed aimed his lawyers for telling him not to admit to touching Katie. There is one explanation that falls somewhere between extreme denial and willful cruelty alty Catherine Ramsland. Phd Co author of the book inside the minds of sexual predators says one of the most common types of child. Predators editors is the quote fixated child offender fixated child offenders are stuck at an early stage of psycho sexual development and rationalize away their abuse of children as showing affection they may know their actions are wrong but their fixation on children overrides their moral moral sensibilities so John might have known he was hurting Katie but because he was fixated and felt unable to stop. He tried to convince himself if he was actually helping her big John's grand gestures like the promise of a car and a huge amount of money on her eighteenth. Birthday seem like further rationalizations of this abuse. He was able to convince himself. The kidnapping and sexual abuse were actually a net benefit to his victim. Big John had molested children. Before and in those cases too he cast himself as a helpful male role model in their lives among John. Busy does victims. Atoms Katie's sixteen year old maternal half brother John Beers hostage victim. Katie beers survived for seventeen days in John Esposito's bunker throughout her captivity while he tried to manipulate her into forgiving forgiving him for kidnapping her. She used a variety of tactics to convince US Petito to let her go. She pleaded with him if he really loved her. He'd let interleave grow up. Go to college and have a family. Eventually esposito turned himself into the police though it's unclear if he was motivated by guilt over his actions or fear of being caught either way he led the police to the hidden bunker freeing Katie John. esposito eight Oh demonstrated. How criminals manipulate their victims while they already have them under their control but how do they gain a potential victims trust in the first place? Aw In our next clip from serial killers will examine the tactics of lust murderer Fritz harmon or the Werewolf of Hanover Harmon. killed at least twenty four men from nineteen eighteen to nineteen twenty four all between the ages of ten and twenty two to lure his victims he sometimes offered them assistance or accommodations. Several of the young men he murdered. Were runaways this made them especially vulnerable to Harmon unstrategic kindness. He brought them home to his apartment supplied them with food and drink then once they're guard was completely down he savagely attacked them after getting away clean for the second time. New Confidence fueled old Harman's bloodlust so when he met seventeen year old wilhelm shelter at Hanover Station in one thousand nine hundred eighty three four weeks after killing Fritz Franken. He couldn't help but approach the boy by now. Harmon had a practice routine for finding suitable victims. He often patrolled Hanover station under the guise of a police officer. Searching for vulnerable boys shoots was a young writer who had just run away from home and this made him an easy target for Harman. Harmon had impersonated a police officer and pretended to lend a sympathetic ear. To the boys troubles. He offered shilpa place to stay into warm meal. She'll say eagerly eagerly accepted the offers and followed Harmon to his apartment. The room was small but spotless. After nearly getting caught for the murder of frank just weeks prior earlier harmon had scrubbed every inch in fact. He had been scrubbing the place with harsh chemicals so often that other tenants in the house had complained to the landlord. Lord a widow named Elizabeth Angle but harmon had long ago explained ankle that he was very particular about cleaning habits and she saw no reason to bother other attendant for keeping US room tidy. Besides harmon was charming angle liked him his charm also allowed him to urge young boys like Schulte into into his bed given his pleasant friendly manner harmon was always able to get close to his victims without making them uncomfortable in these situations harmon especially like to ask US victims about their families. This line of questioning seemed reasonable. Coming from a police officer but Harman's true goal was anything but noble. Will he needed to know if anyone would come looking for the boy. According to Harman he didn't always feel a violent urge to kill the boys. He brought back to his apartment. In some cases harmon kept young men around as errand boys for several days. He gave them small jobs or meals until they stopped coming around other times he raped the boys but did not kill them but unfortunately for Schulte his answers made harmon confident that no one would question his disappearance harmon pounced. He grabbed shelter by the throat and held him down. He raped him and in the midst of the attack. Sunk his teeth into Schultz's Adam's apple this episode of serial killers further details Fritz Harman's six year reign of terror as the butcher of Hanover. But during that time the police couldn't help but notice a sharp spike in the number of missing in boys and teenagers. His crimes were eventually uncovered when the bones from his victims started popping up around town in rivers and fields. When Harman was arrested police discovered stacks of young men's clothing in his apartment after killing them? He sold off their possessions for extra cash in the end his thriftiness. What's his downfall every parted Fritz? Harman's interaction with this victim served a purpose from where he hunted to how we approach them to kill them. He was entirely calculated in his manipulations. But for some criminals their actions aren't so nearly deliberate elaborate rather their manipulations are encouraged by their own. Delusions our final clip from female. Criminals covers convicted murderer. Diane Downs Diane grew up in a strict religious household feeling unloved. She searched for ways to fill that hole her entire life. She finally thought she found the one in Lieu. Louison may carried on serious affair for the better part of nineteen eighty two. But Louis concerned earned by some Diane's behavior. She needed his constant attention at affection. She also lied about everything spinning whatever stories necessary to keep him close to her. Eventually he broke off the affair and went back to US wife. Diane was devastated so in May of Nineteen eighty-three. She devised devised a plan to win. Lou Back if she made herself a victim he would have to come back to her to save her sadly she involved her three a young children in the plot making them victims as well. One Night Diane took the kids out for a drive then. She staged the violent carjacking on the night of the shooting. May Nineteenth Nineteen eighty-three detective. Doug Doug Welsh interview Diana at McKenzie Willamette Hospital. Welsh was the responding officer that night and this was his first homicide case. Diane told Welsh that she and her children had gone to visit her friend and Mark Cola a nearby town in Oregon on their way home. She decided to take a longer route that was more scenic even though it was growing dark as she drove her three sleeping children down old Mohawk road a deserted country road near the Mohawk River. shaggy-haired man flagged her down making her stop the car. Diane got out to ask what he wanted and he demanded she gives him her keys when she refused the man snapped pushed her to the side reached into the car and shot the sleeping children. Diane then pretended to throw her car. Keys in the direction of the riverbank to divert the gunman's attention they struggled for a moment and he shot her in the arm but she managed to get back in the car and race away. The hospital parts of the story didn't make sense to Welsh. He said quote sightseeing when it's pitch blackout. And why are the kids fatally or near fatally wounded and she being right handed is shot in the left arm. I mean think about it. She's the biggest threat to him not three sleeping children and end quote. In addition Diane's account of the events on Mohawk road were inconsistent. She told Welsh the man was bushy-haired then said that he wore a ski. The Mask I. She said that they were attacked by one man but then she said there had been two then reverted back to one. Her evolving narrative is consistent with pathological lying common symptom in those diagnosed with Histrionic personality disorder. Like Diane the nest is going to take over on the psychology here and throughout throughout the episode. Please note. Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist but she has done a lot of research for the show. Thank Sammy according to Dr Mark. Mark d griffiths patients with HP will often lie as a way to enhance her facilitate their dramatic attention seeking behavior in this case with the dozens of police and doctors in the hospital focused on her. Diana justed her story to appear more dramatic as needed while Welsh took diane instatement. Doctors fought to save three downs children as we further outlined in the female criminals episodes detailing dying down story. She had a long history of pathological lying though her previous lies never had such high high stakes now with children's lives on the line. Diane constructed an elaborate carjacking story to explain their grave injuries however her or attempts to manipulate investigators and her increasing desire for their attention exposed her increasingly convoluted delusions. Ultimately one one of Diane downs. Children died from their injuries. The other two spent months in the hospital recovering. Her three-year-old son was paralyzed from the waist. He's down her oldest daughter. Christie initially lost the ability to speak but when she recovered it was her testimony at Diane's trial that center mother to prison for life while the criminals in our clips today utilize different manipulation tactics. They all shared one common goal to gain in control over their victims. We saw Dr Simon's manipulation tactics play. Diane downs tried to make herself into a victim to manipulate police. Enter ex-boyfriend John esposito tried to use intense flattery to win Katie Beers. Affection even deceiving himself into believing he was saving her we. We also saw that. These manipulators chose their victims very carefully paying attention to those who are most vulnerable as laid out by. Dr Breaker John. esposito stick victim was not only a child but an abused child who desired the approval of adults for many of Fritz Harman's victims were runaways vulnerable to any small small amount of kindness. He showed them Jim. Baker offered identity and acceptance to his followers who looked to Baker for guidance and enlightenment in the end and they all achieved their goal of complete domination. Thanks for tuning into podcast crime bites. We hope you enjoyed this episode on the tactics of psychological manipulation. We'll be back next week. Equip the new episode on Mother's misbehaving. We often think of mothers as the consummate nurturers. Why did they sometimes hurt the ones they love most even their own children? If you'd like to listen to the episodes that we discussed today in full simply search for our podcast original shows crimes of Passion Colts hostage serial killers or female criminals on spotify. Not only to spotify already. have all your favorite music. But now spotify spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all your favorite podcast originals for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker and don't forget to follow us on facebook facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time Hi podcast listeners Vanessa. If you love female criminals we'd love to hear from you by taking a quick survey your feedback will help us. Continue Making your favorite shows better than ever please visit podcast survey dot me slash female to answer few short questions. It may seem small but your input really matters. That's podcast survey dot m. e. slash slash. Female thank you for your continued support and for listening.

Charles Manson Jim Baker Diane Downs Diane Fritz harmon Fritz Harman murder Katie Beers Katie Henman John Esposito Bobby US Diane downs John spotify officer George Simon Vanessa Doug Doug Welsh Bobby Beausoleil
Cults Bites: Psychological Manipulation

Cults

28:17 min | 1 year ago

Cults Bites: Psychological Manipulation

"Hi Vanessa and I have some exciting news for you. Cults is now airing episodes twice a week every Friday. You'll hear cults crime bites where you'll get a brief episode on a true crime theme that's related to the stories on this show is hosted by my co host and good friend Greg and it's a fantastic listening experience. I hope you enjoy it. Welcome to podcast crime bites. We wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content to help them dive even deeper into the true crime world every week. Take in addition to your normal colts episode. Were exploring the most fascinating true crime themes covered across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas like motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the true crime world world really is you can find the original episodes of these for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. A list of episodes that we used will be posted in the episode description today. We're discussing cases of psychological manipulation. What tactics to criminals use to deceive coerce coerce and exert control over their victims? Why does it work? And most importantly what are the dangerous consequences of these types of mental domination psychiatrist Harvey Saint Clair defined psychological manipulation as a psychosocial maneuver which uses aggressiveness Restiveness Cleverness and deception to influence others so they will give gratification to the aggressor this gratification. Whether that being taking hostage cultivating followers or seducing murder victim is the driving force behind the criminals manipulative actions. They desire to gain absolute control over their prey. Prey Psychologists George Simon identified many tactics manipulators used to dominate their victims such as intense flattery. Playing the victim to to gain sympathy and undermining victims perception of reality through gas lighting. So who do manipulators target. How do they select the right person? PERSON TO FALL PREY TO THEIR SCHEME DR. Harriet breaker identified. The most common traits victims of manipulation possess among them are an eagerness to please these low self reliance desire to earn acceptance of blurry sense of identity and a fear of disapproval in our clips. Today will walk through a variety righty of criminal manipulators and see how they identify these traits victims. We'll start with a clip it from podcast original crimes of passion covering one of the most well known cases of manipulation in true crime history. The Manson family by manipulating in group and out group dynamics in the late nineteen sixties murderer and cult leader Charles Manson radicalized as followers and cultivated and intense devotion that propelled the family to do his bidding while the most famous killings committed by the Manson family where the Tate Lubyanka murders in August of nineteen. sixty-nine their first victim was drug dealer. Gary Hinman hints murder was the catalyst for a string of brutal. Oh killings carried out by the Manson family in the summer of sixty nine in July of nineteen sixty nine Charles learned. The two men were in the midst of argument. Bobby Beausoleil had purchased a thousand tabs of Mescaline from Gary Hinman but he then claimed that the drugs were tainted tainted. Bobby wanted his money back. Charles figured that as long as bobby was asking for a refund he should demand some extra cash to help fund the families because in exchange Charleston over a few family members to Henman's house to put pressure on him Charles knew that Henman was particularly attracted to Manson family member L.. Joe Bayly so. He suggested she go along to help. Persuade Henman but L. A.. Joe Asked to be excused from duty. Perhaps she guests. That visit might become violent. She later said that she witnessed the family members. Arguing over which guns and weapons. They would bring Henman's apartment instead. Charleston family members. Bruce Davis Susan Atkins and Mary Brunner to act as enforcers. They held the drug dealer up up at gunpoint. While the spurn Bobby Beausoleil beat him senseless eventually Henman agreed to sign over the pink slips to his two vehicles as payment. But when Bobby called Charles let him know he wasn't satisfied he was sure Henman must have money stashed away for the next two days. Bobby Mary Brenner and Susan. Atkins held Gary Hinman hostage. In his home they continue to make demands for money while bobby relentlessly beat him. When Henman told them he'd go to the gleese bobby was spooked? He might go to prison for what he done. He called Charles. Who said you know what to do? Bobby took that as a command to silence Henman by killing him before I continue with Bobby Psychology. cleese note that I am not a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist but I have done a lot of research for the show. The the American Psychological Association has expressed skepticism. That people can be brainwashed into acting violently but some psychologists point to countless examples of people falling under a violent cult influence and going on to do the unthinkable licensed mental health. Counselor Stephen Hasson use we use the rise of al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups as modern examples of how people can be indoctrinated into committing murder. These extremist groups have radicalized individuals through isolation limiting access to outside information and instilling an US versus them and Talapity. Charles Charles Manson uses same tactics. Family members looked Charles as their only source of wisdom and guidance. Some even thought he was the reincarnation nation of Jesus Christ Charles exploited their trust to make them believe they had to take a stand against rich and powerful pigs of the outside world. The family wasn't just willing to kill for their God Charles. They were proud to do it. So when Charles gave the word bobby readily obeyed he stabbed Henman then dipped his hand in the dying man's blood to draw on the wall he wrote a little piggy and then painted a pawprint. Charles had instructed Bobby to leave evidence incriminating donating the Black Panthers. He hoped Henman's death would heighten racial tensions and help kickoff helter skelter. Then the group left after taking Henman's cars with them in this episode covering the Manson Family Gary Hinman murder was only the first in a series of killings soon after the family slaughtered actress Sharon Tate and eight other innocent people all in a bid to kick-start Manson's prophesied race wars but Manson's use of fear and violence was an opposition to many other criminals the HIPPIE era instead they capitalized on the prevailing philosophy of peace and love in this next clip from cults we examined one of the most iconic psychedelic cults of the Nineteen Seventy S. The source family unlike Charles Manson the source families charismatic leader. Jim Baker. You're relied on ideas. Like enlightenment and free love to bind. His disciples to him like Manson Baker was at the center of the source family but instead of acting as a warrior he became their spiritual father offering them love and wisdom in exchange for their loyalty ultimately however this manipulation installation created an all consuming dynamic of extreme dependency between Baker and his disciples what appeared to be a mutually beneficial relationship. was actually in the service of Baker's Crowing Ego Jim Baker typically responded to complex problems by running away from them but this time he didn't cut and run this could be because as psychoanalyst. Daniel Shaw points out in his book. Traumatic narcissism relational systems of subjugation. Listen as a cult leader. Baker developed a codependent relationship with his followers. Shaw writes quote the power that parents have as God like figures to literally give life and sustain. The lives of their children leaves each human being with the memory of total dependency cult leaders tap app into and reactivate this piece of the human psyche. Followers are encouraged to become regressed and Infanta licensed to believe that their life depends pens. Unpleasing the culture and quote and just as much as the source family members needed over. He apparently needed them. According to Shaw the cult leader does not escape dependency instead he and also in many cases she comes to depend on his followers to worship and adore your him to reflect his narcissistic delusion of perfection. In March one thousand nine hundred seventy three. The fifty one year old Baker managed to find a second can home for his followers which they called the Father House a three bedroom three bathroom home. In the hills near the source restaurant it was significantly vacantly smaller than the mother house. A fact that would soon lead to deadly health risks in some ways life at the Father House went on just as it had at the mother house else. Business at the source was still booming and it still required a few dozen family members to run at each day everyone still gathered for four. Am Meditation Tation and spent much of the day cleaning while seeking enlightenment but in other ways everything changed. Baker began channeling new beliefs constantly. Instantly with an ever-expanding emphasis on his own power. He began calling himself by the Jewish name for God Yoga. He taught about the the freemasons and ancient Egyptian magic for his followers. The pursuit of enlightenment became like a whirlwind game in which no one knew the rules else in our episodes on the source family. We go on to examine how Jim Bakker's acres total control over. His followers only increased over the next two years. Eventually their numbers surged to over one hundred fifty people but when a run in with the authorities in Los Angeles forced the cult of Fleet Hawaii Baker or father yoed met his end in fatal hang gliding accident in nineteen seventy. I five for some. It was a death as glorious as Baker's life but for others it was shocking wakeup call. They realized that that for years Baker had manipulated them believing he was guiding them to total enlightenment and in turn his followers had blindly obeyed his every swim but what happens when a criminal delude themselves. into believing that they're heinous actions are truly in the best interest up there. The victim coming up. We discussed the horrifying kidnapping case of Katie Beers and explore the power of of self manipulation from violence and separatist mentality of the Manson family to the all consuming codependent dynamic of the source family criminals have relied on a variety of tactics to exert control over their victims but perhaps the most fascinating method of manipulation is one. The criminal uses on themselves denial and self delusion in our next clip from our show hostage we cover one of the most twisted cases of self delusion the abduction of Katie Beers kidnapped in nineteen ninety two nine year old Katie was kept in underground bunker chain to the wall where she suffered sexual abuse at the hands of our neighbor. John S zero or big John but unlike Charles Manson or Jim Baker Esposito committed his crimes out of the belief but he was helping his victim. Katie came from an abusive home so so esposito convinced himself that showering her with gifts and affection would make Katie happy and feel loved the Nesper. ZITO's mind he had rescued Katie Eighty from her neglectful family. And it was giving your the care and attention. She deserved but in reality he had trapped her in a literal Hell L. on earth. Sometimes big John would come into the bunker to give Katie food or toy and then suddenly the blank look would appear on his face and he would rape her one clue about big. John's mental state is how long he remained in denial about sexually abusing Katie. It took more within twenty years for big John To admit he molested Katie and even then he denied raping her. If Big John Really believed he loved children it it would have been hard for him to reconcile that with the obvious evidence he was seriously harming Katie. Which could lead to denial a psychological coping mechanism on the other hand when John Esposito did finally confess? He blamed his lawyers for telling him not to admit to touching Katie. There is one explanation. A nation that falls somewhere between extreme denial and willful cruelty Catherine Ramsland. Phd Co author of the book inside the minds of of sexual predators. Says one of the most common types of child predators is the quote fixated child offender fixated child offenders. Offenders are stuck at an early stage of psycho sexual development and rationalize away. They're abusive children as showing affection. They may know their our actions are wrong but their fixation on children overrides their moral sensibilities so John might have known he was hurting Katie. But because he was fixated fixated and felt unable to stop. He tried to convince himself he was actually helping her big John's cran gestures like the promise of a car car and a huge amount of money on her eighteenth birthday seem like further rationalizations of this abuse. He was able to convince himself that kidnapping being in sexual abuse were actually a net benefit to his victim. Big John had molested children. Before and in those cases too he cast himself as a helpful male role model in their lives. Among John esposito's victims Katie's sixteen year old maternal half brother John Beers hostage victim. Katie beers survived for seventeen days in John Esposito a bunker throughout her captivity while he tried to manipulate her into forgiving him for kidnapping her she used a variety of tactics to convince Esposito to let go. She pleaded with him if he really loved her. He'd let her leave. Grow up go to college and have a family eventually. ESPOSITO SITO turned himself into the police though it's unclear if he was motivated by guilt over his actions or fear of being caught either way he led the police released to the hidden bunker. Freeing Katie John esposito demonstrated how criminals manipulate their victims while they already have them under their control. But how do they gain a potential victims. Trust in the first place in our next clip from serial killers will examine the tactics of lust murderer her Fritz harmon or the Werewolf of Hanover Harmon killed at least twenty four men from nineteen eighteen to nineteen twenty four all between the the ages of ten and twenty two to lure his victims in he sometimes offered them assistance or accommodations. Several of the young men he murdered. Were runaways this made them especially vulnerable to harmon strategic kindness. He brought them home to his apartment supplied them with food and drink that once. They're guard was completely down. He savagely attacked them after getting away clean for the second time. New Confidence Fueled Harman's bloodlust so when he met seventeen year old wilhelm shelter at Hanover Station Station in one thousand nine hundred eighty three four weeks after killing Fritz Franken. He couldn't help but approached the boy by now. Harmon had a practice routine for finding suitable suitable victims. He often patrolled Hanover station under the guise of a police officer. Searching for vulnerable. Boys shoots was a young writer who had just run away from home and this made him an easy target for Harman Harman had impersonated a police officer and pretend to lend a sympathetic ear. To the boys troubles. He offered Schultz a place to stay warm meal. She'll say eagerly accepted the offers and followed Harmon to apartment. The room was small but spotless. Thoughtless after nearly getting caught for the murder of Franca just weeks prior harmon had scrubbed every inch in fact. He had been scrubbing the place with harsh chemicals so often that other tenants in the house had complained to the landlord a widow named Elizabeth Angle. But harm it had long ago explained. Ankle that he was very particular about his cleaning habits and she saw no reason to bother attendant for keeping US room tidy besides Harmon was charming angle liked him. His charm also allowed him to urge young boys like Schulte into his bed given his pleasant friendly manner. Harmon was always able to get close to his these victims without making them uncomfortable in these situations harmon especially like to ask US victims about their families. This line of questioning seemed reasonable. Coming coming from police officer but Harman's true goal was anything but noble. He needed to know if anyone would come looking for the boy according to Harman he didn't I always feel a violent urge to kill the boys. He brought back to his apartment. In some cases harmon kept young men around as errand boys for several days. He you gave them small jobs or meals until they stopped coming around other times he raped the boys but did not kill them but unfortunately for Schulte his answers made harmon confident that no one would question his disappearance Harmon pulsed. He grabbed Shilpa by the throat and held him down. He raped him and in the midst of the attack sunk his teeth into shelters Adam's apple this episode of serial killers further details. Fritz Harman's six year reign of terror as the butcher of Hanover. But during at that time the police couldn't help but notice a sharp spike in the number of missing boys and teenagers. His crimes were eventually uncovered when the bones from victims started popping up around town in rivers and fields when harmon was arrested. Police discovered stacks of young men's clothing in his apartment after killing them. He sold off their possessions for extra cash at the end his thriftiness. What's his downfall? Every part of Fritz Harman's interaction with this victim served a purpose from where he hunted to how we approach them to how he killed them he was entirely calculated in his manipulations appellations. But for some criminals their actions aren't so nearly deliberate rather their manipulations encouraged by their own dilutions. Our final clip from female criminals covers convicted murderer. Diane Downs Diane grew up in a strict religious household feeling unloved oft. She searched for ways to fill that hole her entire life. She finally thought she found the one in. Louison may carried on a serious reese affair for the better part of nineteen eighty two but Louis concerned by some Diana behavior. She needed his constant attention at affection. She he also lied about everything spinning whatever stories necessary to keep him close to her. Eventually he broke off the affair and went back to his wife. Diane and was devastated so in May of Nineteen eighty-three. She devised a plan to win. Lou Back if she made herself a victim he would have to compactor. Actor her to save her sadly she involved her three young children in the plot making them victims as well one night. Diane took the kids out for a drive then. She staged a violent carjacking on the night. Night of the shooting. May Nineteenth Nineteen eighty-three detective. Doug Welsh interview Diana at Mackenzie Wilmot. Hospital Welsh was the responding officer that night and this was his first homicide case. Diane told Welsh that she and her children had gone to visit her friend and Mark Cola a nearby town in in Oregon on their way home. She decided to take a longer route. That was more scenic even though it was growing dark as she drove her three sleeping children down down old Mohawk road a deserted country road near the Mohawk River. shaggy-haired man flagged her down making her. Stop the car. Diane God ought to ask what he wanted and he demanded she gives him her keys when she refused the man's snapped pushed her to the side reached into the car and shot the sleeping children. Diane then pretended to throw her car. Keys in the direction of the riverbank to divert the gunman's attention they struggled for a moment and he he shot her in the arm but she managed to get back in the car and race away to the hospital. Parts of the story didn't make sense to Welsh. He said quote sightseeing it seeing when it's pitch black out and why are the kids fatally or near fatally wounded and she being right handed shot in the left arm. I mean think about it it. She's the biggest threat to him. Not Three sleeping children and quote. In addition Diane's account of the events on Mohawk road were inconsistent. She told Welsh the man was bushy-haired then said that he wore a ski mask. I she said that they were attacked by one man but then she said there had been two then reverted back to one. Her evolving narrative is consistent with pathological lying the common symptom in those diagnosed with Histrionic personality. Disorder like Diane. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode please note. Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist but she has done a lot of research for the show. Thank Sammy according to Dr Mark. D Griffiths patients with HP will often lie as a way to enhance or facilitate silicate their dramatic and attention seeking behavior in this case with the dozens of police and doctors in the hospital focused on her. Diana justed her story to you appear more dramatic as needed while Welsh took Diane statement. Doctors fought to save the three downs children as we further outlined in the female criminals episodes detailing dying down story. She had a long long history of pathological lying though her previous lies never had such high stakes now with their children's lives on the line. Diane constructed an elaborate carjacking jacking story to explain their grave injuries however her attempts to manipulate investigators and increasing desire for their attention exposed host her increasingly convoluted delusions. Ultimately one of Diane downs. Children died from their injuries. The other two spent months in the hospital spital recovering her three year. Old Son was paralyzed from the waist. Down her oldest daughter Christie initially lost the ability to speak but but when she recovered it was her testimony at Diane's trial that center mother to prison for life while the criminals that are clips today utilize different different manipulation tactics. They all shared one common goal to gain control over their victims. We saw Dr Simon's manipulation tactics at play. Diane downs tried to make herself into a victim to manipulate police. Enter ex-boyfriend John esposito tried to use intense flattery to win Katie Beers. Affection even deceiving himself into believing he was saving her. We also saw that. These manipulators shows their victims very carefully. Paying attention to those who are are most vulnerable as laid out by Dr Breaker John. esposito victim was not only child but an abused child who desired the approval of adults for many of Fritz Harman's victims runaways vulnerable to any small amount of kindness. He showed them Jim. Baker offered identity and acceptance to its followers. I who look to Baker for Guidance Enlightenment in the end they all achieved their goal of complete domination. Thanks for tuning into podcast. Crime Bites we hope you enjoyed this episode Odom tactics of psychological manipulation. We'll be back next week with a new episode on Mother's misbehaving. We often think of mothers as the consummate nurturers charterers. Why do they sometimes hurt the ones they love most even their own children? If you'd like to listen to the episodes that we discussed today in full well simply search for our podcast. Original shows crimes of Passion Cults Hostage Serial Killers or female criminals on spotify. Not only to spotify already all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all your favorite podcast originals for free from your your phone desktop or smart speaker and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time. High podcast listeners. It's Greg Big. If you love cults we'd love to hear from you by taking a quick survey your feedback with help us. Continue Making your favorite shows better than ever please visit is it. PODCAST survey dot me slash cults to answer a few short questions. It may seem small but your input really matters. That's PODCAST survey. Avai dot me slash colts. Thank you for your continued support and for listening.

Gary Hinman Jim Baker Diane Downs Diane John Esposito Manson Baker Hanover Harmon Henman Katie murder Katie Beers Bobby Charles Fritz Harman John Harman Harman spotify officer Diane downs Greg Big Daniel Shaw
Hostage Bites: Psychological Manipulation

Hostage

27:54 min | 1 year ago

Hostage Bites: Psychological Manipulation

"Welcome to podcast crime bites. We wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content to help them dive even deeper into the true crime world every week. In addition to your normal hostage episode were exploring the most fascinating fascinating true crime themes covered across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas. Here's like motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the true crime world really is. You can find the original episodes of these for for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. A list of episodes that we used will be posted in the episode description today. We're discussing cussing cases of psychological manipulation. What tactics criminals used to deceive coerce and exert control over their victims? Why does it work? And most importantly what are the dangerous consequences of these types of mental domination psychiatrist. Harvey Saint Saint Clair defined psychological manipulation as a psychosocial maneuver which uses aggressiveness cleverness and deception to influence others so they will give gratification to the aggressor this gratification. Whether that be taking hostage cultivating followers or seducing a murder victim is the driving moving force behind the criminals manipulative actions. They desire to gain absolute control over their prey psychologist. George Simon identified many tactics ticks manipulators use to dominate their victims such as intense flattery. Playing the victim to gain sympathy and undermining victims perception of reality through gasoline. So who do manipulators target. How do they select the right person to fall prey to the scheme Dr? Harriet breaker identified identified. The most common traits victims of manipulation possess among them are an eagerness to please low self reliance I desire to earn acceptance the blurry sense of identity and fear of disapproval in our clips today walk through a variety of crimen leaders and see how they identify these traits rates victims. We'll start with a clip from podcast original crimes of passion covering one of the most well known cases of manipulation in true crime history. The Manson family by manipulating in group and out group dynamics in the late nineteen sixties murderer and cult leader Charles Manson radicalized its followers and cultivated an intense devotion that propelled the family eight to do his bidding. While the most famous killings committed by the Manson family were the tate labianca murders in August of nineteen sixty nine their first first victim was drug dealer Gary Hinman Hindrance murder was the catalyst for a string of brutal killings carried out by the Manson family in the summer up sixty nine in July of nineteen sixty nine. Charles learned that the two men were in the midst of an argument. Bobby Beausoleil Oh Soleil had purchased a thousand tabs of Mescaline from Gary Hinman but he then claimed but the drugs were tainted. Bobby wanted his money back. Charles else figured that as long as bobby was asking for a refund he should demand some extra cash to help fund the families 'cause in exchange Charleston over a few family family members to Henman's house to put pressure on him. Charles knew that Henman was particularly attracted to Manson family. Member Eligible Bailey. So so he suggested she go along to help persuade Henman but ella jo asked to be excused from duty. Perhaps she guests at the visit might become violent and she later said that she witnessed the family members arguing over which guns and weapons they would bring to Henman's apartment instead Charleston. Family members Bruce Bruce Davis Susan Atkins and Mary Brunner to act as enforcers. They held a drug dealer up at gunpoint. While the spurn Bobby Beausoleil beat him senseless senseless eventually Henman agreed to sign over the pink slips to his two vehicles as payment. But when Bobby called Charles to let him know he wasn't satisfied satisfied he was sure Henman must have money stashed away for the next two days. Bobby Mary Brunner and Susan Atkins held Gary Hinman hostage in his home. They continue to make demands for money while bobby relentlessly beat him when Henman and told them he'd go to. The police. Bobby was spooked. He might go to prison for what he done. He called Charles. Who said you know what to we do? Bobby took that as a command to silence Henman by killing him before I continue with Bobby Psychology. Please note that. I am not unlicensed psychiatrists or psychologists but I have done a lot of research for the show. The American Psychological Association has expressed skepticism People can be brainwashed into acting violently but some psychologists point to countless examples of people falling under a violent Colt influence and going on to do the unthinkable. Licensed mental health. Counselor Stephen Hasson use the rise of al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups as modern examples of how people can be indoctrinated into committing murder. These extremist groups have radicalized individuals through isolation limiting access vest to outside information and instilling an US versus them mentality. Charles Manson uses seem tactics family members. I looked at Charles as their only source of wisdom and guidance. Some even thought he was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ Charles exploited their your trust to make them believe they had to take a stand against the rich and powerful pigs of the outside world. The family wasn't just willing to kill for their God Charles. They were proud to do it. So when Charles gave the word bobby readily obeyed he stabbed Henman then dipped his hand in the dying man's blood to draw on the wall. He wrote political piggy. You and then painted a pawprint Charles had instructed bobby to leave evidence incriminating the Black Panthers he hoped Henman's death breath would heightened racial tensions and help kickoff helter skelter then. The group left taking Henman's cars with them in this episode covering the Manson family Gary Henman's murder was only the first in a series of killings soon after the family slaughtered actress Sharon Tate and other innocent people all in a bid to kick-start Manson's prophesied race wars wars but Manson's use of fear and violence was in opposition to many other criminals of the Hippie era instead they capitalized on the prevailing philosophy of peace. And love in this next clip. From cults we examine. What are the most iconic psychedelic cults of the Nineteen Seventies? The source family unlike Charles Manson the source families charismatic leader. Jim Baker relied on ideas. Like Enlightenment and free love to buy his disciples to him like Manson Baker was at the center of the source family but instead of acting as a warrior he became their spiritual father offering them love and wisdom and exchange for their loyalty ultimately however this manipulation created an all consuming dynamic of extreme dependency agency between Baker and his disciples what appeared to be a mutually beneficial relationship. was actually in the service of Baker's crowing ego in Jim Baker typically responded to complex problems by running away from them but this time he didn't cut and run this could be because as psychoanalyst psychoanalyst Daniel Shaw points out in his book traumatic Narcissism Relational Systems of subjugation as a cult leader. Baker had developed a codependent relationship with his followers. Shaw writes quote the power that parents have as God like figures to literally give life and sustain the lives of their children. Children leaves each human being with the memory of total dependency comp leaders tap into and reactivate this piece of the human psyche followers are encouraged to become regressed and infantilized to believe that the life depends on pleasing the cult leader and quote an in just as much as the source. Family members needed Baker. He apparently needed them. According to Shaw the cult leader does not escape dependency instead ed he and also in many cases she comes to depend on his followers to worship and adore him to reflect his narcissistic delusion of perfection. Affection in March of Nineteen seventy-three. The fifty one year old Baker managed to find a second home for his followers which they called the Father House. It's a three bedroom three bathroom home. In the hills near the source restaurant it was significantly smaller than the mother house. A fact that would soon lead into deadly health risks in some ways life at the Father House went on just as it had at the mother. House business at the source was still booming and it still required a few dozen members to run at each day everyone still gathered for four. AM Meditation and spent much of the day cleaning while seeking enlightenment meant but in other ways everything changed. Baker began channeling new beliefs constantly with an ever-expanding emphasis on his own power. Our he began calling himself by the Jewish name for God Yoga. He taught about the freemasons and ancient Egyptian magic for his followers followers. The pursuit of enlightenment became like a whirlwind game in which no one knew the rules in our episodes on the source family. We go on to examine how Jim Bakker's total control over. His followers only increased over the next x two years. Eventually their numbers surged to over one hundred fifty people but when a run in with the authorities in Los Angeles forced the cult of Fleet Hawaii I baker or father yoed met his end in a fatal hang gliding accident in one thousand nine hundred ninety five for some. It was a death as Gloria says Baker's life but for others. It was shocking wakeup call. They realized that for years Baker had manipulated them believing he was is guiding them to total enlightenment and intern. His followers had blindly obeyed his every whim but what happens when a criminal delude themselves selves. into believing that they're heinous actions are truly in the best interest of their victim coming up. We discussed the horrifying kidnapping case of Katie Beers and explore the power of self manipulation from the violence and separatist mentality of the Manson family to the all consuming codependent dynamic of the source family. Criminals have relied lied on a variety of tactics to exert control over their victims. But perhaps the most fascinating methods of manipulation is one the criminal uses on themselves. Dell's denial and self delusion in our next clip from our show hostage. We cover one of the most twisted cases of self delusion the abduction of Katie Beers kidnapped in nineteen ninety-two nine year old. Katie was kept in an underground bunker chain to the wall where she suffered separate sexual abuse at the hands of her neighbor. John Esposito or big John but unlike Charles Manson or Jim Baker Esposito committed his is crimes out of the belief that he was helping his victim. Katie came from an abusive home so esposito convinced himself. That showering her with gifts. Defection would make Katie happy and feel loved the Nesper Zito's mind. He had rescued Katie from her neglectful family. And it was giving her the care and attention unsheath deserved but in reality he had trapped her in a literal hell on earth. Sometimes big John would come into the bunker and to give Katie food or a toy and then suddenly the blank look would appear on his face and he would rape her one clue about big. John's mental state is how long he remained in denial about sexually abusing Katie. It took more than twenty years for big John To admit he molested Katie and and even then he denied raping her. If Big John Really believed he loved children it would have been hard for him to reconcile that with the obvious evidence since he was seriously harming Katie. Which could lead to denial a psychological coping mechanism on the other hand when John Esposito did finally confess? He blamed his lawyers for telling him not to admit to touching Katie. There is one explanation that fall somewhere between extreme denial and willful awful cruelty Catherine Ramsland. Phd Co author of the book inside the minds of sexual predators. Says one of the most common types of child. Predators is the quote fixated child offender fixated child offenders are stuck at an early stage of psycho sexual development element and rationalize away. They're abusive children as showing affection. They may know their actions are wrong but their fixation on children overrides hides their moral sensibilities so John might have known he was hurting Katie. But because he was fixated and felt unable to stop he tried to convince awesome self he was actually helping her big John's grand gestures like the promise of a car and a huge amount of money on her eighteenth birthday seemed like like further rationalizations of this abuse. He was able to convince himself that kidnapping and sexual abuse were actually a net benefit to his victim victim. Big John had molested children. Before and in those cases too he cast himself as a helpful male role model in their lives among John. ESPOSITO Zito's victims Katie's sixteen year old maternal half brother John Beers hostage victim. Katie beers survived for seventeen days. Inchon Esposito's bunker throughout her captivity while he tried to manipulate her into forgiving him for kidnapping her she used a variety of tactics to convince Esposito to let her go. She pleaded with him if he really loved here. He let her leave. Grow up go to college and have a family eventually. ESPOSITO turned himself into the police though. It's unclear if he was motivated. Audited by guilt over his actions or fear of being caught either way he led the police to the hidden bunker. Freeing Katie Jonah's honest. zito demonstrated how criminals manipulate their victims while they already have them under their control. But how do they gain a potential victims trust in the first place in our next clip from serial killers. We'll examine the tactics of lust murderer Fritz harmon or the Werewolf of Hanover. Harman killed at least twenty four men from nineteen eighteen to nineteen twenty four. All between the ages of ten and twenty two to lure his victims comes in he sometimes offered them assistance or accommodations. Several of the young men he murdered. Runaways this made them especially vulnerable all to harmon strategic kindness. He brought them home to his apartment supplied them with food and drink that once. They're guard was completely down on. He savagely attacked them after getting away clean for the second time new confidence suffused Harman's bloodlust. So when he met seventeen year old Wilhelm Shilpa that Hanover Station in nineteen twenty three four weeks after killing Fritz Frank thinker. He couldn't help but approach the boy by now. Harmon had a practice routine for finding suitable victims. He often patrolled Hanover station under the guise is a police officer. Searching for vulnerable. Boys shoots was a young writer who had just run away from home and this made him an easy target for Harman. Harmon had impersonated a police officer and pretended to lend a sympathetic ear to the boys troubles. He offered shelter place to stay into warm meal. She'll she'll say eagerly accepted the offers and followed Harmon to his apartment. The room was small but spotless. After nearly getting caught for the murder of frank just weeks prior harmon had scrubbed every inch in fact he had been scrubbing the place with harsh chemicals so often that other tenants in the house had complained to to the landlord a widow named Elizabeth Angle but harmon had long ago explained angle that he was very particular about his cleaning habits and she saw no the reason to bother a tenant for keeping room tidy besides Harmon was charming angle liked him. His charm also allowed him to urge young boys like Schulte Tsa into his bed given his pleasant friendly manner Harmon was always able to get close to his victims without making them uncomfortable in these situations. Sounds harmonised specially like to ask victims about their families. This line of questioning seemed reasonable. Coming from a police officer but Harman's true goal was anything thing but noble. He needed to know if anyone would come looking for the boy. According to Harman he didn't always feel of violent urge to kill the boys. He brought back to his apartment apartment. In some cases harmon kept young men around as errand boys for several days. He gave them small jobs or meals until they stopped coming around other times he raped boys but did not kill them but unfortunately for Schulte his answers made harmon confident that no one would question this show his disappearance harmon pounced. He grabbed shelter by the throat and held him down. He raped him and in the midst of the attack. Sunk his his teeth into Schultz's Adam's apple this episode of serial killers killers further details Fritz Harman's six year reign of terror as the butcher of Hanover. But during that time the police couldn't help but notice the sharp spike in the number burrup missing boys at teenagers. His crimes were eventually uncovered when the bones from his victims started popping up around town in rivers and fields fields when harmon was arrested. Police discovered stacks of young men's clothing in his apartment after killing them. He sold off their possessions for extra cash. Rush at the end his thriftiness. What's his downfall? Every part of Fritz Harman's interaction with victim served a purpose from where he hunted did to how we approach them to be killed them. He was entirely calculated in his manipulations. But for some criminals their actions aren't so nearly deliberate. Rather their manipulations are encouraged by their own dilutions. Our final clip from female criminals covers convicted murderer. Diane Downs Diane grew up in a strict religious household feeling unloved. She searched for ways to fill that hole her entire life live. She finally thought she found the one in Lewiston. Maine carried on a series of fair for the better part of nineteen eighty. Two but Louis was concerned by some Diane's behavior. She needed his constant attention affection. She also lied about everything. Spinning whatever stories necessary very to keep him close to her. Eventually he broke off the affair and went back to wife. Diane was devastated so in May of Nineteen eighty-three. She devised a plan to win back. If she made herself a victim he would have to come back to her. Just save her sadly she involved her three young children in the plot making them victims as well one night. Diane took the kids out for a drive then she she staged of violent carjacking on the night of the shooting. May Nineteenth Nineteen eighty-three detective. -tective Doug Welsh Interview Diane at McKenzie Willamette Hospital Welsh was the responding officer that night and this was his first homicide case. Diane Diane told Welsh that she and her children had gone to visit her friend and Mark Cola a nearby town in Oregon on their way home. She decided to take a longer the route that was more scenic even though it was growing dark as she drove her three sleeping children down old Mohawk road a deserted country road near the Mohawk Doc River. A shaggy-haired man flagged her down making her stop the car. Diane got out to ask what he wanted and he demanded she gives him her keys his when she refused the man snapped pushed her to the side reached into the car and shot the sleeping children. Diane then pretended the throw her car. Keys in the direction of the riverbank to divert the gunman's attention they struggled for a moment and he shot her in the arm but she managed to get back in the car and race away to the hospital. Parts of the story didn't make sense to Welsh. He said quote sightseeing when it's pitch blackout. And why are the kids fatally or near ear fatally wounded and she being right handed is shot in the left arm. I mean think about it. She's the biggest threat to him. Not Three sleeping children and quote. In addition Diane's account of the events on Mohawk road were inconsistent. She told Welsh. The man was bushy-haired then said that he wore wore a ski mask. I she said that they were attacked by one man but then she said there had been two then reverted back to one. Her evolving narrative is consistent consistent with pathological lying the common symptom in those diagnosed with Histrionic personality disorder. Like Diam. The Nest is going to take over on the psychology here here and throughout the episode. Please note Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist. But she has done a lot of research for the show. Thank Sammy according to Dr Mark. D Griffiths patients with HP will often lie as a way to enhance or facilitate their dramatic attention seeking behavior in this case ace with the dozens of police and doctors in the hospital focused on her. Diana adjusted her story to appear more dramatic as needed while Welsh took Diane statement. Doctors fought to save the three downs children as we further outlined in the female criminals episodes detailing dying down story. She had a long history of pathological lying though her previous lies never had such high stakes now with our children's lives on the line. Diane constructed an elaborate carjacking story to explain their grave injuries however however her attempts to manipulate investigators and increasing desire for their attention exposed her increasingly convoluted delusions ultimately timidly one of Diane downs. Children died from their injuries. The other two spent months in the hospital recovering. Her three-year-old son was paralyzed from the waist. Down her oldest daughter Christie initially lost the ability to speak but when she recovered it was her testimony. At Diane's trial trial that center mother to prison for life while the criminals in our clips today utilize different manipulation tactics. They all shared one common goal to gain control over their victims. We saw Dr Simon's manipulation tact accept play. Diane downs tried to make herself into a victim to manipulate police. Lee Center ex-boyfriend John Zito tried to use intense flattery to win Katie Beers. Affection even deceiving himself into believing he was saving her. We also saw that. These manipulators chose their victims very carefully paying attention to those who are most vulnerable as laid out by Dr Breaker John. ESPOSITO's ESPOSITO's dictum was not only a child but an abused child who desired the approval of adults for many Fritz. Harman's victims were runaways. Vulnerable to any small amount of kindness. He showed them Jim. Baker offered identity and acceptance to his followers who looked Baker for guidance. Sunday night meant in in the end. They all achieved their goal of complete domination. Thanks for tuning into podcast. Crime Bites we hope you enjoyed this episode on the tactics of psychological manipulation. We'll be back next week with a new episode on Mother's misbehaving. We often think of mothers as the consummate nurturers. Why do they sometimes hurt the ones they love most? I even their own children. If you'd like to listen to the episodes that we discussed today in full simply search for our podcast. Original shows. Crimes Of Passion Ashen Colts hostage serial killers or female criminals on spotify. Not only spotify already ham all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all your favorite podcast originals for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker and don't forget to follow Louis on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time. Hi podcast listeners. It's Carter if you love hostage we'd love to hear from you by taking a quick survey Ed your feedback will help us. Continue Making your favorite shows better than ever please visit podcast survey dot me slash hostage to answer. A few short questions may seem small. But your input really matters. That's podcast survey dot me slash hostage. Thank you for your continued support and for listening.

Charles Manson Diane Downs Diane Jim Baker Inchon Esposito Gary Henman Fritz harmon Fritz Harman Katie Katie Beers ESPOSITO Zito murder Bobby John spotify Diane downs officer Bobby Beausoleil George Simon kidnapping Nineteen Seventies
Crimes of Passion Bites: Psychological Manipulation

Crimes of Passion

28:17 min | 1 year ago

Crimes of Passion Bites: Psychological Manipulation

"Hi It's Laney. I have some exciting news for you. Crimes of passion is now airing episodes twice a week. Every Friday you'll hear crimes of passion Shen Prime Bites. Were you'll get a brief episode on a true crime theme that's related to the stories on this show it's hosted by my good friend Greg and it's a fantastic listening the experience. I hope you enjoy it. Welcome welcome to podcast crime bites. We wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content to help them dive even deeper into the true crime world every week. In addition to your normal crimes of passion episode were exploring the most fascinating true crime themes covered across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from from some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas like motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the true crime. Prime World really is. You can find the original episodes of these for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. A list of episodes that we used. We'll be posted in the episode description today. We're discussing cases of psychological manipulation. What tactics criminals use to deceive of course and exert control over their victims? Why does it work? And most importantly what are the dangerous consequences of these types of mental domination psychiatrist Harvey Saint Clair defined psychological manipulation as a psychosocial maneuver which uses is aggressiveness cleverness and deception to influence others so they will give gratification to the aggressor this gratification. Whether that being taking hostage wjr cultivating followers or seducing a murder victim is the driving force behind criminals manipulative actions. They desire to gain absolute control over for their prey psychologist. George Simon identified many tactics manipulators use to dominate their victims such as intense flattery. Playing the victim victim to gain sympathy and undermining victims perception of reality through gas lighting. So who manipulators target. How do they select the right white person to fall PREY TO THE SCHEME DR? Harriet breaker identified. The most common traits victims of manipulation possess among them are an eagerness to please low self reliance desire to earn acceptance of blurry sense of identity and a fear of disapproval in our clips. Today we'll walk through a variety of criminal manipulators and see how they identify these traits victims. We'll start with the a clip from podcast original crimes of passion covering one of the most well known cases of manipulation in true crime history. The Manson family by manipulating in group and out group dynamics in the late nineteen sixties murderer and cope leader Charles Manson radicalized its follow worse worse and cultivated an intense devotion that propelled the family to do his bidding. While the most famous killings committed by the Manson family where the tate labianca murders in August of nineteen sixty nine their first victim was drug dealer Gary Hinman Hindrance murder was the catalyst for a string of brutal killings carried out by the Manson family in the summer of sixty nine in July of nineteen sixty nine. Charles House learned that the two men were in the midst of an argument. Bobby Beausoleil had purchased at thousand tabs of Mescaline from Gary Hinman but he then claimed that the drugs six were tainted. Bobby wanted his money back. Charles figured that as long as bobby was asking for a refund he should demand some extra cash to help fund. The families families 'cause in exchange Charleston over a few family members to Henman's house to put pressure on him. Charles knew that Henman was particularly clearly attracted to Manson family member. Eligible Bailey. So he suggested she go along to help persuade men but L. A.. Joe Asked to be excused from duty. Perhaps she guests at the visit might become violent she later said she witnessed the family members arguing over which guns and weapons they would bring Henman's Henman apartment instead Charleston family members Bruce Davis Susan Atkins and Mary Brunner to act as enforcers. They held the drug dealer. Taylor up at gunpoint while the spurn bobby. Beausoleil beat him senseless eventually Henman agreed to sign over the pink slips to his two vehicles as payment mint. But when Bobby called Charles to let him know he wasn't satisfied he was sure Henman must have money stashed away for the next two days. Bobby Mary Brunner and Susan Atkins held Gary Hinman hostage in his home. They continue to make demands for money. Any while bobby relentlessly beat him when Henman told them he'd go to. The police. Bobby was spooked. He might go to prison for what he done. He called Charles. Who said you know what to do? Bobby took that as a command to silence Henman by killing him before four. Continue with Bobby Psychology. cleese note that I am not a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist but I have done a lot of research for the show. The American Psychological Association has expressed skepticism. That people can be brainwashed into acting violently but some psychologists point to countless countless examples of people falling under a violent Colt influence and going on to do the unthinkable. Licensed mental health. Counselor Stephen Hasson use the rise above all Qaeda and other terrorist groups as modern examples of how people can be indoctrinated into committing murder. These extremist groups have radicalized individuals through isolation limiting access to outside information and instilling an US versus them mentality. Charles Manson uses same tactics family members. Look to Charles as their only source of wisdom and guidance some even thought he was the reincarnation carnation of Jesus Christ Charles exploited their trust to make them believe they had to take a stand against the rich and powerful pigs of the outside outside world. The family wasn't just willing to kill for their God Charles. They were proud to do it. So when Charles gave the word word bobby readily obeyed. He stabbed Henman than dipped his hand in the dying. Man's blood to draw on the wall. He wrote political piggy and then painted a pawprint. Charles had instructed Bobby to leave evidence incriminating incriminating the Black Panthers he hoped Henman's death would heighten racial tensions and help kickoff helter skelter. Then the group black taking Henman's cars with them in this episode covering bring the Manson Family Gary Hinman murder was only the first in a series of killings soon after the family slaughtered actress Sharon Tate and eight other innocent people people all in a bid to kick start. Manson's prophesied race wars but Manson's use of fear and violence was an opposition to many other criminals medals of the Hippie era instead. They capitalized on the prevailing philosophy of peace and love in this next clip from colts. We examine Zaman one of the most iconic psychedelic colts. One thousand nine hundred seventy s the source family unlike Charles Manson the source families charismatic leader. Jim Baker relied on ideas. Like Enlightenment and free love to buy his disciples to him like Manson Baker was at the center of the source family but instead of acting as a warrior became their spiritual father offering them love and wisdom in exchange for their loyalty ultimately however this this manipulation created an all consuming dynamic of extreme dependency between Baker and his disciples what appeared to be a mutually beneficial relationship. I was actually in the service of Baker's Crowing Ego Jim Baker typically responded to complex problems by running away from them but this time he didn't cut and run this could be because as psychoanalyst. Daniel Shaw points out in his book. Traumatic narcissism relational systems of subjugation education as a cult leader Baker had developed a codependent relationship with his followers. Shaw writes quote the power that parents have has god. I'd like figures to literally give life and sustain. The lives of their children leaves each human being with the memory of total dependency comp leaders tap into and reactivate this piece of the human psyche followers are encouraged to become regressed and infantilized to believe that the lyft fifty pens unpleasing the cult leader and quote and just as much as the source family members needed Baker. He apparently needed them. According waiting to Shaw the cult leader does not escape dependency instead he and also in many cases she comes to depend on his followers to worship and adore him to reflect his narcissistic delusion of perfection. In March of Nineteen seventy-three the fifty one year old Baker managed to find the second home for his followers which they called the Father House a three bedroom three bathroom home in the hills near the source restaurant. It was significantly -nificant smaller than the mother house. A fact that would soon lead to deadly health risks in some ways life at the Father House went on just as it had at the mother other house. Business at the source was still booming and it still required a few dozen family members to run at each day everyone still gathered for four. Am am meditation and spent much of the day cleaning while seeking enlightenment but another ways everything changed. Baker began channeling new beliefs constantly constantly with an ever expanding emphasis on his own power. He began calling himself by the Jewish name for God Yoga. He taught about the freemasons and ancient Egyptian magic for his followers the pursuit of enlightenment became like a whirlwind game in which no one knew the rules in our episodes on the source family. We go on to examine how Jim Jim Bakker's total control over. His followers only increased over the next two years. Eventually their numbers surged to over one hundred fifty people but when a run in with the authorities in Los Angeles forced the cult of Fleet Hawaii Baker or father yoed met his end in a fatal hang gliding accident in nineteen seventy five for some. It was death as glorious as Baker's life but for others. It was a shocking wakeup call. They realized is that for years. Baker had manipulated them but leaving he was guiding them to total enlightenment and intern. His followers had blindly obeyed his every every whim. But what happens when a criminal deludes themselves into believing that they're heinous actions are truly in the best interest up there victim coming up. We discussed the horrifying kidnapping case of Katie Beers and explore the power of self manipulation from the violence and separatist mentality of the Manson family to the all consuming assuming codependent dynamic of source. Family criminals have relied on a variety of tactics to exert control over their victims. But perhaps the most fascinating dating method of manipulation is one the criminal uses on themselves denial and self delusion in our next clip from our show hostage we cover one of the most twisted cases of self delusion the abduction of Katie Beers kidnapped in nineteen ninety two nine year old Katie was kept in an underground bunker chain to the wall where she suffered sexual abuse at the hands of her neighbor. John Esposito or big John but unlike Charles Manson or Jim Baker Esposito committed his crimes out of the belief that he was helping his victim. Katie came from an abusive home. So I'm convinced himself. That showering her with gifts and affection would make Katie happy and feel loved. BANESPA ZITO's mind. He had rescued. You'd Katie from her neglectful family and it was giving you the care and attention. She deserved but in reality he had trapped her in a literal hell on earth. Sometimes big John would come into the bunker and to give Katie food or toy and then suddenly the blank look look would appear on his face and he would rape her one clue about big. John's mental state is how long he remained in denial about sexually abusing Katie. It took took more than twenty years for big John To admit he molested Katie and even then he denied raping her. If Big John Really believed he loved children it would have been hard for him to reconcile that with the obvious evidence. He was seriously harming Katie which could lead to denial a psychological coping mechanism. Awesome on the other hand when John Pazuto did finally confess. He blamed his lawyers for telling him not to admit to touching Katie. There is one explanation explanation that falls somewhere between extreme denial and willful cruelty Catherine Ramsland. Phd Co author of the book inside the minds. Signs of sexual predators says one of the most common types of child. Predators is the quote fixated child offender fixated child. L. Defenders are stuck at an early stage of psycho sexual development and rationalize away. They're abusive children as showing affection. They may no their actions are wrong. But their fixation on children overrides their moral sensibilities so John might have known he was hurting Katie. But because he was fixated and felt unable to stop he tried to convince himself he was actually helping her big John's grand gestures like the promise of a car car and a huge amount of money on her eighteenth birthday seemed like further rationalizations of this abuse. He was able to convince himself that kidnapping napping and sexual abuse were actually a net benefit to his victim. John had molested children. Before and in those cases too he cast himself as is a helpful male role model in their lives. Among John esposito's victims Katie's sixteen year old maternal half brother John Beers the hostage victim. Katie beers survived for seventeen days in John Esposito Dido's bunker throughout her captivity while he tried to manipulate her into forgiving him for kidnapping her. She used a variety of tactics to convince US Sposito to let her go. She pleaded with him if he really loved her. He'd let her leave. Grow up go to college and have a family eventually. ESPOSITO ESPOSITO turned himself into the police though it's unclear if he was motivated by guilt over his actions or fear of being caught either way he led ed the police to the hidden bunker freeing Katie John esposito demonstrated how criminals manipulate their victims while they already have them under their control. All but how do they gain potential victims trust in the first place in our next clip from serial killers. We'll examine the tactics of lust murderer Fritz harmon or the Werewolf of Hanover harmon. killed at least twenty four men from nineteen eighteen to nineteen twenty four all between between the ages of ten and twenty two to lure his victims in he sometimes offered them assistance or accommodations. Several of the young met he murdered. Were runaways this made them especially vulnerable to harmon strategic kindness. He brought them home to his apartment supplied them with food food and drink then once they're guard was completely down he savagely attacked them after getting away clean for the second time new confidence. Fueled Harman's bloodlust. So when he met seventeen year old wilhelm she'll TSA at Hanover over station in one thousand nine hundred eighty three four weeks after killing Fritz Franken. He couldn't help but approach. The boy by now. Harmon had a practiced routine for finding finding suitable victims. He often patrolled Hanover station under the guise of a police officer. Searching for vulnerable boys shoots was a young writer who had just is to run away from home and this made him an easy target for Harman Harman had impersonated. A police officer pretended to lend a sympathetic ear. To the boys troubles bulls. He offered shelter place to stay into warm meal. She'll say eagerly accepted the offers and followed Harmon to his apartment. The room was small but spotless. After nearly getting caught for the murder of Franca just weeks prior harmon had scrubbed every inch in fact he had been scrubbing the place with harsh harsh chemicals so often that other tenants in the house had complained to the landlord. A widow named Elizabeth Angle but harmon had long ago explained angle angle that he was very particular about cleaning habits and she saw no reason to bother attendant for keeping US room tidy. Besides harmon was charming angle. I liked him. His charm also allowed him to urge young boys like Schulte into his bed given his pleasant friendly manner harmon was always able to get close. WHO's to his victims without making them uncomfortable in these situations harmon especially like to ask his victims about their families? This line of questioning seemed reasonable bill. Coming from a police officer but Harman's true goal was anything but noble. He needed to know if anyone would come looking for the boy according to Harman he he didn't always feel a violent urge to kill the boys. He brought back to his apartment. In some cases harmon kept young men around as errand boys for several days. He gave them small jobs or meals until they stopped coming around other times he raped the boys but did not kill them but unfortunately for Schulte Ah. His answers made harmon confident that no one would question his disappearance Harmon pulsed. He grabbed shelter by the throat and held him down down. He raped him and in the midst of the attack sunk his teeth into shelters Adam's apple this episode of serial killers further details. Fritz Harman's six year reign of terror as the butcher of Hanover. But during that time the police couldn't help but notice the sharp spike in the number of missing boys and teenagers. His crimes were eventually uncovered when the bones sounds from his victim started popping up around town in rivers and fields when harmon was arrested. Police discovered stacks of young men's clothing in his apartment after killing them. He sold off their possessions for extra cash at the end his thriftiness. What's his downfall every part of Fritz? It's Harman's interaction with his victim. Served a purpose from where he hunted to how we approach them to how he killed them. He was entirely calculated in his manipulations. But for some criminals their actions aren't so nearly deliberate rather their manipulations are encouraged by their own delusions. Our final clip from female criminals covers convicted murderer diane downs. Diane grew up in a strict religious household. Feeling unloved loved. She searched for ways to fill that hole her entire life. She finally thought she found the one in Louison. They carried on a serious affair for the better part of nineteen eighty two. But Louis concerned by some of Diane's behavior. She needed his constant attention and affection. She also lied about everything spinning whatever stories necessary to keep him close to her. Eventually he broke off the affair and went back to wife. Diane Ryan was devastated so in May of Nineteen eighty-three. She devised a plan to win. Lou Back if she made herself a victim he would have to compactor her to save her sadly she involved her three young children in the plot making them victims as well one night Diane took the kids out for Dr then. She staged a violent carjacking on on the night of the shooting. May Nineteenth Nineteen eighty-three detective. Doug Welsh interview Diana at McKenzie Willamette. Hospital Welsh was the responding officer officer that night and this was his first homicide case. Diane told Welsh that she and her children had gone to visit her friend and Mark Cola a nearby town town in Oregon on their way home. She decided to take a longer route. That was more scenic even though it was growing dark as she drove her three sleeping children grin down old. Mohawk road deserted country road near the Mohawk River. shaggy-haired man flagged her down making her. Stop the Car Diane. Dan got out to ask what he wanted and he demanded. She gives him her keys when she refused. The man's snapped pushed her to the side reached into the car car and shot the sleeping children. Diane then pretended to throw her car. Keys in the direction of the riverbank to divert the gunman's attention they struggled for a moment and he shot her in the arm but she managed to get back in the car and race away to the hospital. Parts of the story didn't make sense to Welsh. He said quote sightseeing when it's pitch black out. And why are the kids fatally or near fatally wounded and she being right handed shot in the left arm. I mean think about it. She's the biggest threat to him. Not Three sleeping children and quipped. In addition Diane's account of the events on Mohawk road were inconsistent. And she told Welsh. The man was bushy-haired then said that he wore a ski mask I. She said that they were attacked by one man but then she said there had been two do then reverted back to one. Her evolving narrative is consistent with pathological lying the common symptom in those diagnosed with histrionic personality disorder. SORTA like Diane. The ness is going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist. But she has has done a lot of research for the show. Thank Sammy according to Dr. Mark d griffiths patients with HP will often lie as a way to enhance or facilitate their dramatic and attention seeking behavior in this case with the dozens of police and doctors in the hospital focused on her. Diana justed her story. Sorry to appear more dramatic as needed while Welsh took Diane statement. Doctors fought to save three downs children as we further outlined in the female criminals episodes detailing dying down story she. He had a long history of pathological lying though her previous lies never had such high stakes now with their children's lives on the line. Diane constructed an elaborate carjacking story to explain their grave injuries however her attempts to manipulate investigators and her increasing desire for their attention exposed exposed her increasingly convoluted delusions. Ultimately one of Diane downs. Children died from their injuries. The other two spent months in in the hospital recovering. Her three-year-old son was paralyzed from the waist. Down her oldest daughter Christie initially lost the ability to speak but when she recovered. It was her testimony at Diane's trial that center mother to prison for life while the criminals that are clips today utilize is different manipulation tactics. They all shared one common goal to gain control over their victims. We saw Dr Simon's manipulation tactics at play. Diane downs tried to make herself into a victim to manipulate police. Enter ex-boyfriend John zito tried to use intense flattery to win Katie Beers affection and even to saving himself into believing he was saving her. We also saw that. These manipulators chose victims very carefully paying attention to those who are most vulnerable as laid out by Dr Breaker John. ESPOSITO's dictum was not only a child but an abused child who desired the approval of adults. It's many a Fritz Harman's victims runaways vulnerable to any small amount of kindness. He showed them Jim. Baker offered identity and acceptance to its scholars who look to Baker for guidance. Enlightenment in the end they all achieved their goal of complete domination. Thanks for tuning into podcast. Crime Bites we hope you enjoyed this episode episode on the tactics of psychological manipulation. We'll be back next week with a new episode on Mother's misbehaving. We often think of mothers as the consummate Smitten nurturers. Why did they sometimes hurt the ones they love most even their own children? If you'd like to listen to the episodes that we discussed today in full full simply search for our podcast original shows crimes of passion colts hostage serial killers or female criminals on spotify. Why not only to spotify already all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all your favorite podcast originals for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network? I'll see you the next time high podcast listeners. It's Laney if you love crimes of passion we love to hear from you. By taking a quick survey your feedback will help us. Continue Making your favorite shows better than ever please visit podcast survey dot me slash passion to answer a few short questions. It may seem small but your input really matters. That's PODCAST podcast. Survey Dot me slash passion. Thank you for your continued support and for listening.

Charles Manson Katie John esposito Jim Baker Fritz harmon Diane Katie Henman murder Katie Beers Bobby Fritz Harman Charles diane downs ESPOSITO ESPOSITO Harman Harman officer spotify Jim Jim Bakker George Simon Doug Welsh
245 - Karl Denke, the Cannibal of Zibice

Timesuck with Dan Cummins

2:06:34 hr | 4 months ago

245 - Karl Denke, the Cannibal of Zibice

"November one thousand nine hundred eighty three. You're working class. German carrying a bag full of cash to buy few meals. Because hyper inflation has made money worthless and you stumbled across a man selling boneless pickled pork sounds weird. Maybe kind of disgusting. But you're happy to finally found some meat you can actually afford when you approach. The man's meets dan you notice. He's also selling leather goods for a really good price. Can't believe your quickly by as much meat as you can afford and a pair of leather suspenders. Go along with it papa. Danke the butcher. Thank you for your business and tells you to enjoy the meat and a little over a year later. When his story breaks you start to vomit. That was not poor kuwait. That was not leather. You bought carl denki lovingly nicknamed papa by the citizens of munster. Berg was a cannibal serial killer. Who murdered for over two decades. A butcher who eight pieces of his victims and sold their meat to strangers a monster who kept victim's bones and fashion their skin and hair into random pieces of apparel think. He was a quiet man who kept to himself and began killing his earliest. Nineteen ninety three and killed all the way until nineteen twenty four. The true number of his victims is unknown estimates. Range anywhere from at least thirty two somewhere around forty and almost. No one had a clue what he was up to for twenty years. Carl was so far off the police's radar for over two decades. They didn't even believe the person who finally reported him until he discovered his sickening butchers workshop inside his apartment. How did he get away with what he got away with for. So long as will learn today germany's inter-war troubles helped out immensely insent victims literally to his door. How is he not more well. Known until the nineteen eighty s. Carl story was almost completely lost to history as crazy as crimes were others were committing even crazier crimes at the same time it is dark did not grab that many headlines in germany or elsewhere but we will learn all about his forgotten deeds today. Who was the mysterious. carl denki. Why did he feel the need to not only kill but eat victims as well and maybe sell their meat unsuspecting customers at the local market. And by maybe. I mean almost certainly what other german serial killer stole his spotlight all this and more on historical true crime. Maybe don't eat any meat while you listen to this edition of time suck. This is michael mcdonald. And you're listening to time. suck happy monday meet sax. It's curious time. Holy shit drive a wild fucking tail for you all today. The income has master's sucker. Fred flintstone impersonator future. Darren bad magic master magician and you are listening to time suck hill. Robbing god loose athena jake back over here praised jingles and turn it up to eleven. Triple m not sure. How many birthday wishes. I've gotten recently a still recording back before my birthday. I'm still just twenty one Thanks to all of you who've downloaded free subgroup social packs from the downloads section of the bad magic merge dot com store fucked zach. You can also follow us on instagram and facebook at times. Podcast for updates about things like these so glad to see more subgroups out there populating across facebook more communities building more friendships being made sweet new. Dad watch t. In the store bad magic merch dot com dad watch dad's disappearing where all the corpses side if we can keep better is on. All of our dads there will be no more murders Quick reminder that thanks for your time suck and scared to death. Patriot donations We were able to donate thirteen thousand dollars. Eight hundred thirteen thousand eight hundred dollars to go to the ocular. Melanoma foundation goto mellon dot org to find out more and Have you got your tickets yet. For thursday june tent is we dumb live and uncensored hosted at loup live dot com virtual doors open at six. pm pacific time show starts at six thirty. You can get your tickets at bad. Magic merged dot com. It's going to be wild and weird so much fun and that's it. I tried to get to the announcements extra quick today. I think i accomplished it Now we're off to explore the twisted deeds of carl danke a german cannibal. Serial killer lost for so many years to history such disturbing goule of a man who murdered an eight and in all likelihood sold the meat of at least thirty people in a little town from nineteen thousand three to almost nineteen twenty five. He reminds me of a monster from an old dark children's fairy tale like a real life. Bobby yoga boogeyman. I can hear parents using him to scare their children into behaving story broke. Eat your dinner or danke will eat you. He'll clean your bones and pickle your flesh her home from school or dinky will cut you up and throw your meat on the stove. Children listen to their parents get sent away to dinky bloody home and they never come back where your skin rip out your teeth and turn what's left you into it stu. How does the cannibal of pizza sneak under the radar for so long. You are about to find out summer ninety nine. What were you doing then. Working on summer break truly with spice girls working as a rhody for their christmas and spice world tour. Not even born yet. Young meat sec. If you were loot zana bialy the polish custodian of the salesian salesian library of poland's Rats suave there. We go university. You were coming across dark details of the life of one seriously fucked up serial killer. You're thinking how am. I never heard of this monster before. Nine thousand nine nine lucena found records of a mysterious figure known as the cannibal of zombie. Tsa carl dinky. She wondered how neither she nor nearly anyone else she spoke to about. Carl recalled ever hearing of him. Imagine finding records of ted bundy's crimes and no one had heard of him. She dug through the records. You found began researching news articles from the twenty s. She compiled everything she could on him and sent her research to poland's two most important and prestigious literary publications mad magazine penthouse. Only poland's find his minds. It's very best writers able to get published in penthouse in mad magazine. Jk started been awhile so took an unnecessary undeserved shot of my wife's family's homeland noah editor. Todd oh my gosh todd. Douche published research in bear with me. Gazeta vegtable watcher. And because that's all vaa rosca. Hope got those fronts. I listen to some native speakers. Say those words on four zero dot com and literally said out loud to myself fucking. What all the polish words. I've said so far the absolutely nothing like how they would be said in the same letters in english. Lot of polish words today suck. I always forget how tricky languages a play the game with myself during the research where i would take a guess look at the word regarding how it sounds. Say it out loud to myself. See how close. I was to the correct pronunciation on four vo not even remotely close. Not even in the ballpark a single time. Thank god for websites like four votes professors post lectures on youtube Both publications i mentioned our daily polish newspapers and then in july and august nineteen ninety nine and that little range the household equipment museum in the southwest. Now polish once was a german. A town of about nine thousand souls danke lived and hunted. It was called monster burger when he was there. They put together a small exhibit for danke featuring photographs and some of his tools. Worst museum name ever by the way the household equipment museum. I wonder if they put in a serial killer exhibit. I'm guessing attendance was a little light when it was just the household equipment museum at ten total visitor. Stop by like in the history of that museum before curl donkeys exhibit. Who the who. The fuck is going to the household equipment museum. How board you have to be for. That's the sound fun anyway. Those who attended the exhibit were shocked. I bet they were. I am jaded is held to try details. After all the topics we've covered. I was still shocked before this exhibit. Almost no one. Outside of poland in germany knew about curl danke very few in poland in germany had either heard anki or the very least. They hadn't thought about him in decades. Had he committed the crimes and say The us in recent years netflix. And or hbo would have certainly already aired documentaries about him. Carl danke was a monster a serial killer and cannibal who murdered for estimated twenty one years killing what seems to be a minimum of thirty people. Thirty people whose murders he recorded in his journal. Lot of details about them but You know their names and dates where there are thirty people. He also likely eight and probably sold a lot of their meat to others many others. How could someone like that. Ever get lost a history as we'll learn when danke was active. There was a lot of other nasty shit going on in the world especially around where he was killeen and that part of europe including two other serial killers prowling the streets of germany. Peter cureton the vampire of dusseldorf. Who will be sucking later this year and fritz harmon the werewolf of hanover who will suck a bit on today a monster. Who sensational trial happened to wrap up. Just two days before carl's death to carl's death singular in an even bigger monster in many ways danke and peter and fritz both talked about their evil deeds and great length You know in their trials before being executed. Talk to the press each killed by guillotine a donkey however killed himself within hours of being arrested in never discussed his crimes. He didn't give he didn't give journalists lots run with no super fucked up quotes to print. The precious had more to work with more to report on with both curtain harmon and they did with danke also real quick before we move on. I love all the nicknames these guys had the cannibalism pizza the vampire of dusseldorf the where wolf of hanover sounds like a bunch of old time. You wrestlers doesn't it reminds me of a previous serial killer suck subject albert fish Also active the nineteen twenties just in america not germany who was dubbed the brooklyn vampire and the werewolf of wisteria shelby's. That's how they do it in. Hollywood be epic wrestling match. Ladies and gentlemen tonight. We have max featuring four old timey creepy keller. Wearing trunks neighbor skin the cannibalism pizza takes on the hammer-wielding bloodthirsty vampire door. And they will both face the werewolf of hanover. Who just can't seem to keep was evil peanuts strong. And the where will. The wisteria will undoubtedly drying fill the room with fresh piping hot peanut butter and women bottoms he. Also some of the records that existed on dinky just ended up getting lost. She gets lost back before dinner. Everything was uploaded to the internet and archived. Someone threw away the wrong set of files. If the files were damaged aflutter afire. If you know they got putting the wrong box mislabeled well they could end up getting tossed out the trash be gone for good. The original records that were found were german or polish. Not everything was translated. Luckily enough detail survive for us to tell darkly fascinating stories today and dark details for you maybe not to want to eat pork chops or bacon. Listen to this one gonna start off by going over what life was like in germany would denki was killing in short. Not good economic collapse certainly contributed to his long killing spree. When you're continually worried about losing everything you have starving. Tend to be less interested in what your neighbors are up to or so. It seems in today's story. After going over part of germany's inter-war period will then Jump into a time line across life and crimes details upfront If they seem a little scarce the details upfront After he's arrested we will go thoroughly over the investigation and the bloody apartment. If you're up for it so more details on the back end More details than some. You're probably gonna wanna be able to want to hear or be able to stomach very reminiscent of what. Investigators founded former sucks subject gains home and he was arrested then after the time line will examine some of the crimes of fritz harmon. The vampire of hanover since it was his sensational You know Trial details that overshadowed donkeys butchery. Holy shit was that to two savage. They're both averages they're living in savage times. Let's head now to inter-war germany just certain plants thrive only under particular circumstances of soil and climate so certain crimes spring up in flourish only under certain special mixtures of conditions. That's a quote from a story. An article about think written in new york city daily news on sunday june seventeenth nineteen forty five. What's special mixture of conditions. Allow dinky to flourish story of carl. Dinky involves to some degree How much exactly we'll never know. Principles of scarcity and demand at the time he killed. There was a high demand for meat. Germany and meat was scarce any meet that people could find and could afford to eat. They were willing to pay as much as they could afford to get some sweet meat to feed themselves and their families after world war one. In germany many many people were hungry and disorganized. According to the same daily news article couldn't afford many basic necessities like food and clothing. Any kind of food was hard to get hold of in. Meat was the hardest. I it was a luxury dire. Economic conditions lead families unraveling to widespread homelessness two young boys and men drifting around germany away from their families and alone often not telling anyone where they were heading in the days before cell phones. Men like these made perfect targets for carl danke. They literally wanted to his door. In many cases almost no one ever know his His victims that ever met him made it real hard for him to become a suspect and since he disposed of the bodies butchered them hit the remains. He didn't eat or sell. No one even knew for sure that his victims had died in most cases if not all the cases many didn't know that his victims had ever traveled to the polish town of zone pizza. None of those days. The german town of munster berg. The desperate for men works that comprise the majority of victims of donkeys victims just disappeared and their disappearances were not investigated. No one knew where to look and also backed in germany's inter-war period people disappeared all the time they made it to a new country. They died of various ailments. They just stop writing letters home. That didn't know where to send the letters because relatives were also moving around looking for work etc. No one's really looking for missing persons. Why were the time so tough in germany. For starters a lot of germans died or were injured in the first world war over one point. nine million. German soldiers died fighting over point. Two million additional soldiers have been wounded over one point. One million have been taken by other nations as prisoners of war. Germany had over seven point. Three million casualties will over. Fifty percent of the thirteen million soldiers germany mobilized for that war and roughly half a million german civilians died in world war one. Since there was so much fighting on german soil an untold number of others were wounded. Many disabled after world war ended germany like any nation following that much death and destruction. It needed to heal. Germany had spent tens of billions of dollars on his military during the war suffered tens of billions dollars in property damage during the war. That a lot of wounded disabled veterans to take care of that a lot of shit to deal with but they wouldn't be able to deal with it because they were given a huge bill for the war after the war was over Thanks to being the worst primary aggressor and thanks to losing the war. Really big bill. They were given a bill. Most economists of the day said would be literally impossible for them to pay back with. The war was over the oh tens of billions and reparations majority of which was to go to france and great britain germany owed one hundred and thirty two billion gold marks over four hundred billion dollars in today's money. They actually would pay this off. I found that fast in two thousand ten they. They never stopped painting. They finally paid it off in two thousand ten took almost an entire century. I find that very impressive. The treaty of versailles the end of the war signed by the combatants on june twenty eighth nineteen nineteen was what gave them that bill. It was written entirely by the winning team of the allies and demanded quote compensation by germany for all damage done to the civilian population of the allies and their property by the aggression of germany by land by sea and from the air. A lot of valuable. German land around ten percent of their empire was given to other nations following the war. Further weakening germany germany known primarily prior to the wars the german empire imperial germany or the second reich additionally lost all of its vast overseas colonial and highly profitable holdings in china the pacific and africa was given a bill and it had its ability to pay that bill anytime soon completely destroyed. It's like it's like demanding their frozen yogurt place you've invested in payback a huge loan. And then after making that demand you destroy its yogurt. Machines and freezers. Germany's territories were taken over by britain. France japan other allied nations. The allied powers punish germany severely after world. War one with the treaty of versailles and then making things even worse following the war no countries. We're willing to loan money to germany to help. Pay back the reparations with those other nations were either also broke or their nations. That germany had just recently fucked with so not likely to lend the money. So germany's central bank through a hail. Mary desperate times call for desperate measures and they're desperate measure was to start printing money. Like it was fucking monopoly. Money to pay their debts off the began. Printing lots and lots of money loaned it to the german government and it was a huge mistake to do this. Turns out you just can't suddenly print billions and billions of additional dollars or marks or whatever and not suffer severe economic consequences. Now usually hyper inflation set in inflation. In the weimar republic germany was known from nineteen eighteen to nineteen thirty three completely ruined the already almost completely destroyed economy so why printing money caused inflation will economists. Don't totally agree on this. Actually printing money or more money doesn't always lead to inflation but it often does in the most basic reason for it causing inflation is too much money chasing too. Few goods flushed out a bit more in order to have an economy. There has to be some kind of relationship between economies money value in the cost of goods and that same economy some kind of stable relationship to have stable economy. Otherwise you'll have an economy just have anarchy thinking about it this way sandwiches or five dollars each in an economy with a billion total dollars floating around in it and then that same country prince. Another four billion dollars. The relationship between the sandwich and the dollar has changed right taking other complicating economic Factors out it makes sense. The sandwich would now be worth five times as much because you have five times as much money to spend on everything including sandwiches when there was one billion total dollars. There were five dollars sandwiches. When there's five billion total dollars. There are now twenty five dollars sandwiches in order for for the relationship between currency and the goods to remain constant that makes sense there are many other factors and exceptions etc This is this is not a master's level economics lesson. This is a simple explanation from a guy with a pretty simple understanding of economics. Am i above example. The overall relationship between sandwich and total money hasn't changed in both examples. If you spend all of the economy's money on sale you can buy two hundred million sandwiches. Because a billion divided by five is two hundred million and five million divided by twenty-five also order million but in this helps explain what happened to germany. What if an economy printed a fuck ton of extra money but none of that. Money went to his people by sandwiches. With right what if it was given to four nations. What if all the sudden you're still making the same amount of money you were making before the extra money was printed. You still have the same amount of money in the bank you had before the extra money was printed but now shits five times as expensive that showcases the danger of inflation of hyper inflation. If you don't make enough money to keep up with the rapidly rising costs of goods due to the printing of far too much money. You are mother flocked and this happened big time. The weimar republic and a lot of people were fucked Check this out to see how the value of the german mark fell through printing way too much money way too quickly as illustrated by comparing his value to the us dollar over the same for your period this is mind blowing nine hundred nineteen one dollar worth four point two marks two years later. Nineteen twenty one one dollar worth five marks nineteen twenty two one dollar worth four hundred marks now really starts to ramp up by january nineteen twenty-three worth seven thousand marks few months later in july one hundred sixty thousand marks the next month a million marks now really ramps up by the end of nineteen twenty three one dollar is worth four point two trillion marks which means that that money is essentially completely worthless. It's insane. How did hyperinflation get that bad. Unless you have already studied economics extensively. You'll have to study economics for a lot longer. This entire episode will last to understand it. Best luck no need to do that here. Since it's not the focus of the episode. The only really important thing to know is that it did happen and then it leads. You really really shitty times for the weimar republic. Hyperinflation got so bad. People had to carry loads of cash just to buy basic necessities photos from the time. Show people carrying wheelbarrows of money just to buy a loaf of bread. At one point. It cost a million marks to send a letter a million for a time. Money became so worth us. Germans use it as wallpaper. The overall german population went from being relatively prosperous before world war one to a nation full of homeless people widows and injured veterans unable to work and provide for their families after the war People lined up all the way down the block Waiting to buy whatever meet. Anyone was selling how you're not tasty. It was no matter. What kind of media was the homeless. Men and women's shelters were full every single nights or pictures of children pose next to stacks of money. They use to build forts towers. German babies grew a plane with money because their parents couldn't buy them. Any toys weren't insane and terrifying situation to fix it. Germany had to issue a new form of currency in phase. Out the old now worthless one now if you own a lot of land and or goodness situation you were actually okay. Oftentimes your money kept dropping value but you can also charge more for the goods and or for the rent Some workers also did okay. They just kept renegotiating their wages sometimes on a daily basis at the height of higher inflation some businessmen and landowners were now able to pay back their loans easily. Thanks to hyperinflation. Farmers also managed fairly well because they can raise their prices right to match the demand. Some other people whether the storm by turning to a barter economy they traded for goods and services. Some benefited dot land other valuable assets for food. But a lot of people just got fucked most people if he didn't own much unemployment has hit. Even if you had a lot of cash in the bank is hyper inflation absolutely financially. Devastated destroyed you. Can you imagine if that happened now. Imagine how disheartening. It would be psychologically devastating. It'll be defined that all the money you work so hard for suddenly lost all of its value. It's hard for me to fathom people who had not carefully put money. Aside are people who had carefully put money aside and banks for years suddenly had nothing and this is a lesson in diversifying your savings. Don't just have it. All in cash of veterans had pensions from the war that were suddenly worthless german artist. George grosz popular in the nineteen twenty s was quoted as saying about all of this shopping had to be done immediately even in additional minute meant an increase in price won by quickly because a rabbit for example might cost two million marks more by the time it took to walk to the store. A few million marks meant nothing really. It was just that emit more lugging the packages of money needed to buy. The smallest item had long since become too heavy for trouser pockets. They weighed many pounds. People had to start carting their money around wagons and knapsacks one woman claimed to understand the conditions in germany. One only has to look and listen in a fourth class car tired worn angry faces. And what rags what talk. How one has to slave or nothing at all. All those millions by nothing bread is six hundred billion. What an insane experienced live through the anxiety. The fear the constant state of panic. Never knowing if you'll have enough money to buy bread the next day never knowing how much worse it could get fucking chaos. enduring inflation. denki was at the height of his butchery leading some to think that his cannibalism was probably influenced and maybe even primarily motivated by this economic crisis. I'm not so sure partially motivated. Maybe but i i wonder if economic conditions gave him a kind of maybe but not really good excuse to do self than he wanted to do for other a much more disturbing non economic reasons now with the backdrop for his murders established. Let's meet this monster in today's time. Suck timeline right after. Today's sponsor break law. Not look in the way you wanted to meet sex. Is it uneven. Full of brown spots thin in one area thick and others. Is it a bit mangy. Turn it around with sunday. See your lawn thrive this spring with your own custom lawn care plan from sunday. Sunday is more than just lawn. care product. It's a custom lawn. Care plan with a variety of ways to help you grow a beautiful. Lon control weeds and remove pests sunday takes all the guesswork in unwanted chemicals. So you don't have to worry about poisoning your dog just to get your grass greener sunday makes taking care of your lawn easier than ever. Just go to their website. Get sunday dot com. Put in your home address. 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Is professional counseling done securely online available for clients worldwide. You can schedule weekly video phone or even live chat sessions our listeners. Get ten percent off their first month of online therapy at better help dot com slash time. Suck that's better. H e l p dot com slash time suck. Thank you for listening. Now let's head back to eighteen seventy and learn what we can't about the crazy life of coral danke on those booths soldier where martin down a time. Soccer timelines august twelfth eighteen. Seventy carl dinky was born in a small village in germany called oba kunsan. Dorf part of lower lower silesia. Just three miles from the town of monster burger now known as beats out so many dual names in this area because of bounce back and forth between fun on the jurisdiction of poland and germany for centuries now is part of poland and in eighteen seventy was also part of poland but from eighteen. Seventy one to nineteen forty-five the entirety of donkeys life minus the first few months it would fall under german control. I the german empire then after one. The weimar republic. Also if you're familiar with this dirtbag or you look into him. You'll see that. Some sources like wikipedia will list his birth eighteen sixty others list eighteen. Sixty six some go with eighteen. Seventy from what we can tell the. Most reliable seeming sources Some of the original german sources and various american newspaper entries from the early twentieth century lists. His birthday is eighteen. Seventy so we're going to stick with that today. There is not a lot of information about curls early life very little actually. He was a son of a wealthy farmer. Described as being pedantic and pedantic could mean anything from really particular sometimes a positive connotation to really fussy obviously more negative connotation generally i think it's negative us has so i think of it. Everything had to be just so possibly with pedantic young donkey exactly how he wanted or he threw a kind of fit. You know type deal and we'll find out who's very particular highly organized in a very macabre definitely had his own specific way of doing things curl seems to have had just two siblings both older brothers but their names and the names of the parents not known at least they weren't translated from what we can tell we we can't find them a lot of records about them. His family seem to have been lost. Mentioned that or at least a you know again haven't been translated and published anywhere online. They may exist in that little polish museum That has or at least had a display on him but we do know is that he had a poor relationship with his parents and his brothers. His family owned a successful farm in their village and her describing the sources anywhere from middle class to somewhat wealthy usually upper some wealthy. I remember when times got really economically bad germany between world war one world war two landowners farmers did a lot better than most. And i guess you know. His birth was previous one so a lot of people were doing a lot better Some sources say his parents ran a nursery other say they owned a restaurant possible to own multiple businesses most sources just cite a family farm the overwhelming majority of sources so. I'll go with that. His parents don't seem to have been abusive. At least there are no reports of abuse. Seem that carl did not experience any extremely traumatic childhood events according to a nineteen thirty eight knoxville journal article about dinky. He came from a reputable family untainted by insanity as a child. In addition to being pedantic carl was described as dull. He didn't begin speaking until age. Six or seven and had difficulty learning in school. If you learned material at all it was a very slow rate. He was far behind his peers. Academically teachers called him an idiot. Said he would never accomplish anything so You know so. That's pretty cool. The good old days when teachers would just tell kids they were fucking idiots. Getting kind of Not gonna advocate. We totally return this now. Some kids could probably benefit from being called for acting karloff. The punishments for refusing to do is work as teachers noted. He's very obstinate and lacks respect for teachers when he did start. Speaking his voice was soft and quiet. He would only say a few words at a time for the rest of his life. You'd never be much of a talker. When he would speak the words were slow slurred and he stressed out the syllables. I wonder based on some of the details That will cover about carl dinky if he was on the autism spectrum and i'm not the only one who think this a few historians have theorized he might have had autism spectrum disorder. He was super awkward. Socially very odd in many ways odd affect But in some ways you know smart enough to pull off what. He pulled off for so long very unemotional. Very methodical about a lot of the things he did he moved slowly moves little as possible. Someone trying to shake his hand you know. He barely lift his arms to greet them. According to one source. Yeah who just odd child but not a violent child as far as we can tell numerous sources basically all the sources consistently paint him as a weird loner for pretty much entire life. He was withdrawn and isolated from others. Not sure exactly why. He was a loner as a child. But i get why. He was isolated for the last couple of decades of his adult life. Hard to have a lot of friends when you're people the time your home is full of their blood and body parts you have. There're body parts on the stove. I wanna talk more about his insanity right now. But i'll save it for when we dig into what investigators would find in his apartment. After he began speaking around the seven. Carl did start to improve a bit in school. Which makes little easier to get your grades up if you can speak on his social skills improve so much though. You never seem to make any friends. Didn't seem to pal around with other kids at school. He really didn't like school sometimes. It's two older brothers would literally carry him to class. Because he threw tantrums and reviews go. To school he was a chronic bed wetter. A poor young. Carl had a lot of shit on shit to deal with fear of being teased for a for all that may have helped lead him to a life of being a loner after he was done with elementary school he was done with school entirely stopped going. His formal education was over. Never having made any friends a social life was now reduced only to his family and from what we can determine he didn't care for them and they didn't care for him either. He didn't go to local dances popular. Social outings extreme loner he. I'd like to walk through the woods alone. Wonder what he was thinking about. Those walks killing people. Eight people making belts out of people will ever know over sure Guessing he was thinking about girls and not in a loving way and couple of a couple of old articles. It said that carl was known for frequently making misogynistic comments. He strongly disliked women but never seemed to give a reason why maybe too many girls in school had been mean to young. Carl maybe Maybe mama was mean to him. We don't know a lot about mama. Almost nothing of whatever reason he never seemed to express in your romantic interest in girls growing up or ever no credible rumors that he was gay and romantically interested in boise either. We're interested in them platonic. He didn't seem to be interested in any anyone. Another one of the details. We know about curls childhoods. He ran away a lot so you know he didn't like others and in like his family did was troubled. Most of the time to police brought him back but not every time one time ran away. No age assigned to this but he had been younger than twelve based on upcoming timely details and he was gone for nine months gone for nine months before the age twelve when he returned told his family that he'd been working in a corey then construction and the apparently he never told his family why he left. Why he came back just continued on as if nothing happened. That's the way it's written. What the hell is going on in this family. What if his parents were just glad he was gone when he ran away. Just mother father cows away. Yes finally oppressive and last quite people son islam is gone. We can hold up to the wolves eat them. Lead loss in the forest and returns is pictures. Parents tool brothers embracing in a big group hug crying. Tears of joy gone in one thousand nine hundred. Twelve car runs away from home again. We're because gardener's apprentice love that title gardener's apprentice. Do i picked them doing nothing but pulling weeds right. The gardner does everything else. Carter handles the watering the seeding. The pruning the the gardener's apprentice pulls weeds. And you know. Throw the weeds way That sounds like a job. Carl could've handled a running away this time. He never moved back here with his parents and his family doesn't seem to upset by this. Maybe they truly didn't want him. Maybe this man who become a brutal disturbing serial killer which is also a really fucked up kids. We just don't have those details because he interviews. That would have given us those details. I get lost or never took place to begin with. And he was a monitor and if his family was happy to see him leave at twelve. I don't think that necessarily means they're bad parents. I mean i'll be devastated if my kids ran away. But i've pretty good kids. What if i really had a bad seed like a really bad seat. What have you had monster home. You're the kids are great but one just consistently just a piece of shit. You've raised it for twelve years and literally never enjoyed a minute of their company. Their siblings don't like them. They don't have any friends their teachers and classmates don't like no one likes them. What if in addition to being just really likeable violent. What are they assault or siblings or they break your stuff hurt or killed a pet start. Fires how many bad and dangerous things would consistently shitting unlikable could have to do before you were finally like you know what. Fuck my kid dear. God please runaway you monster. i promise. We'll never come looking for you. Some people would still think apparent you know he did something like that was just a monster. In very rare cases. I get it of studied too much about nature versus nurture to believe that the right amount of nature can always overcome an absolutely terrible nature. Don't get me wrong. I think the overwhelming majority of parents who abandon their children are monsters. Like ninety nine point nine nine nine nine nine nine nine nine nine nine percent but every once in a while i do think someone just dealt a dinky and then what the fuck you supposed to do. Some of us are born blind. Someone born deaf. Some are born without lower. Torsos your ability to walk. With brain damage with a chronic illness drastically reduced their life expectancy and some of us are born bad really bad terrible moral. Compasses born without the cognitive ability to empathize right to not be drawn towards hurt and mayhem. Maybe danke was one of those. People would work for this unnamed gardner for about a decade and seemingly fit in finding out with all the other apprentices in the didn't do anything to weird stick out the others. Numerous gardeners apprentices. Didn't necessarily make any friends but it doesn't seem like anyone came after he died to say something like. Oh yeah i remember carl. He super fucked up. A lot of our missing always seemed to have blood. Seen donors close Nothing like that quite himself. We rented rooms in his teenage and adult years area often spoke other tenants. Yeltsin preferred to stay in the back of houses with basements. Maybe some of. That's about him being shy. But i think a lot of that is probably also based not not not not wanting to have neighbors here. The murder details. You know your body's hitting the floor him stomping around all night doing butcher in eighteen ninety five. When carl was twenty five was father died and he didn't care apparently he would not be hourly shaken up by the death of either parent. It said he felt indifferent toward their desks. This is why some people think he was on the autism spectrum Or sociopath or both he'll be both. You showed no motion at their funerals. His father died. His two older brothers took over the family farm while carl inherited some money to buy some land getting inherited that money. Long before inflation hit hyperinflation. Also nicest parents who clearly didn't have a good relationship with still left him in there will. Initially after his father's death his brothers gave him a job working for them on. The farm. didn't work out. Well they later report he was lazy. Didn't do a good job wouldn't show up for days at a time. They'd find him wandering alone to the forest instead of fourteen autism or asshole or both it sounds like he was just a real pain in the ass I find it interesting that while you can't find a lot of details about his younger years all the details you can find. Our negative literally. Can't find a single example of someone from his early years. Thinking car was just a good kid or good guy fun to be around hard worker. Nothing like that. He did apparently managed to work as a gardener's apprentice from the age of twelve. Twenty two not get fired now seems to be the most decent thing he was able to pull off possibly in his whole life. It's not lose a gardener apprenticeship. When his folks died. Carl use inheritance to buy some land from self okay. Now he's done at least one smart thing. Maybe carl danke then became an. I love how this is written in the source in unsuccessful farmer and eventually he sells his land and purchased a house in town of munster burke which is again now the polish town of his pizza. Now maybe he's done at least one smart thing or maybe not. The house he bought still stands on the wall street. Carl lived there. It had three units and he rented out to them to tenants. So that's noise. That inheritance loudon said things themselves. They wouldn't have to work on a farm or really anywhere. He now makes some of that landlord money about after line. What seems to be a nearly nonexistent work ethic to pay. The bills carl's own personal room was just thirteen feet by thirteen feet. Rooms people's linden back then and the shed in the art the he also used to kind of expand living quarters living living shed life. The former gardener's apprentice now live in that shed life the shed life. I spent two years of high school. Basically what was a carpeted. Shed was a windows. Curl little ponder that shed next that shed nice little call body of water he could maybe sit around reflect flips on his most recent murder. Something maybe maybe enjoy tasty pickled manmade as. He stared into that calm. Water wasn't a random reference. You'll learn later. Dude love to pickle. People maybe started that pond water inflicted on how he three houses for the money. He paid for this one house. Ramona said the buying. This house was a smart thing. He did not exactly. He paid three times what he should have when he bought this house. He got scammed. His two brothers were worried enough about him. Getting scammed again and about him. Losing what literally had left of his inheritance they push for legal guardianship of carl after this purchase. Not sure if that decision really came from any kind of a real genuine concern for carl or from word that if he lost everything they'd have help take care of them now would create family problems for them His brother's only didn't get guardianship. Because dr they spoke with regarding carl's ability to take care of himself carl's doctor told her that carl could easily become violent if he was no longer in control of life. No idea how the doctor came to that conclusion. This point as far as we know from other source documents we can find. Carl had never been aggressive towards anyone in his life never had any outburst but his doctor knew the could be violent. The doctor you know would of course. Be right about karl. He would soon begin to exhibit some real violent indices that wants discovered would shock the people of munster burke at the time about nine thousand people live their same today. We said it'd be a close knit town where everybody knew each other business lacy thought they did but no one knew. Carl was doing there for twenty years I moved into town the pharmacist. A few miles outside of town. Only i moved into muster burkey so little wicker baskets and other crafty products so random. His next business venture Even more random using landed around his home as a garden he's gonna put those gardeners apprenticeships skills to use. He tried his hand at rhubarb farming. And he really well. Before long he was He was known as the rhubarb king of munster burke before began working as a butcher and i wonder what exactly are source for that particular info an article in the april third nineteen thirty eight edition of the knoxville journal meant by the rhubarb king. Like it one resident of mr berg. They interviewed say that. And only they and maybe To other people who knew danke thought he was the rhubarb gang. Did he give himself that nickname. Did he introduce himself as the king people Did he truly have gift when it came to grow and rhubarb. And you really did grow a citywide rhubarb reputation. I people always talk about as rhubarb soviet tanks. Do you like it or not. I do like it. It's a fine stoplight. Rule jam was johann. But but what and it's it's just a time it's just i had some of australia's robot jammies involved. This is very good. No one piece regard king. I mean the the robot uses so perfectly. Ripe is so sweet. I think i was either without to strawberries. And don't get me started on his pair rupe. i'm christine. He looked out the other day and served hot with the called scoop of vanilla ice cream on top just marvelous and the week before the craziest april cut up one. The was like he's the rhubarb king star. That's probably funny to me. I never heard anyone referred to as king before. Because no one in the states. That i know of anyway so much shit about i also lost in rhubarb from because it reminded me of my great grandma is still to really did make an awesome strawberry jam that no one seemed to care as much about as me. I care a lot about rhubarb. Carl donkey rhubarb king would have lured me to death with that tart semi sweet fruit pink salary looking edible stock festival thing that served as the fruit. I think it's possible. He would have offered me some tasty jam a few years later a high be grilling my ass. Cheeks stove. also not a random records Making rhubarb might have been the one really good choice. Crawl made Or maybe it was become a butcher through king clearly. Didn't make that much money growing rhubarb because he soon left the root vegetable game for the meat game becoming a butcher. That would serve car well. In a variety of ways after the economic crisis began butchers. Where some of the few people still had jobs no matter what the hyper inflation was. People still needed food and meat was scarce food. And if you had a good supply of it you are going to be okay. And once he got to butchering. Carl did seem to always have a fresh supply of meat. Just wasn't always it seems The pork he was advertising in addition to his butchery curls brother send him a small amount of cash each month despite their poor relationship they believed he was quote feeble minded and they wanted to help him out and maybe he was people minded again. I think of serial killer ed. Geene if you're not familiar with that old suck subject or just forgot ed. The butcher of plainfield gain was a goal and a grave robber killed. Two women dug up at least nine. Other women's bodies from nearby cemeteries to make all sorts of shit out of their skin out. Wisconsin nipple belts face masks. Not cove masks like someone else's face your face kind of mask a shoebox full of us again. Made himself a suit. At a women's skin told investigators he made the suit so that he could become his mother to literally crawl into her skin. He would literally go out and his family giant farm once he was the only one living there for his folks died and dance under the moonlight wearing a skin suit. He had made from the bodies of middle aged women after his mom died at gained inspiration for norman bates from hitchcock's film psycho leather face from the texas chainsaw massacre movies buffalo bill from the silence of the lambs that psycho danced in the mirror. Would you fuck me. i've fought me or fuck me hard for me. So hard and ed geene. Although he wasn't quite thought to be a feeble minded exactly as they would have said back then he also wasn't real bright guy. We socially awkward as fucked in. Have any friends who another weird loner. Such a weird dude. He actually didn't really seem to want to hurt. You want he just really really wanted to skin suit so it could be mama As crazy as that sounds it's does sound crazy because literally insane for being caught. He spent the rest of his life and mental hospital. And carl he might have been like ed in some ways he also he also might have been much more calculated instant but he might have just really wanted people's meet and you know to get it. Well he had to kill him so makes him a monster. Just different kind of mantra. The kansas city butcher like bobadilla who really wanted to rape and torture and hurt people as much as possible before they died another. We're talking about. Let's move onto the killer's first victim is likely that february twenty first. Nineteen three was when carl danke killed for the first time when he was thirty three his possible first victim was idle honor and we know almost nothing about her Just based on a ledger entry. We'll go over his legislator that he very likely did kill her and did so on this date. We don't even know how he killed her. Based on what will learn about other crimes i'm guessing. He swung an ax her head when she wasn't looking or snuck up behind strangler or maybe he got real aggressive with a stock of rhubarb in possible to say for certain Since we have no idea what this creep was doing for the next six years going to skip ahead six years now to his next known murder in nineteen o nine based on another ledger. Entry on december twenty first ninety nine now thirty nine year old karl murders the twenty five year old woman named emma saunder and then a very unlucky local man named editor. Trautman is arrested for her murder. Her bodies and families you disappeared. Assume dead and edited. And emma had gone on a date recently And he was the last known man to have seen her in a nineteen eleven. This poor bastard is found guilty of her murder and sends to fifteen years in prison for this crime. No one thought to blame carl donkey. The time he wasn't even a person of interest no one would know that. Carl was the real killer until right before christmas. Nineteen twenty four fifteen years after her murder over. Thirteen years after trauma goes to prison. Every crawls death after he'd spent damn near his full fifteen year sentence in prison for a murder he had nothing to do with. He was pardoned and released guy. Chuck i'm sure he was a matter bidder at all about that whole mix up. Hey edward got some great news for you buddy. You don't have to wait until next week to get out of prison sir. Now you get to go home now. Nice and early. Why why. why are we releasing early. Because we know what Speak up you say we We the real guy so so sorry. Apologies sorry about the utmost fifteen years in prison but let's focus on the good news for this whole mix up since it was are bad. You know we're going to give you fifty billion marks. How's that buddy. You can grab your bags of money at the front desk. We'll have a wheelbarrow fetal hall at home with your rich then. I picture editing leaving the prison. Actually kind of happy about all of it now because now. He's thinking he's wealthy. He's going to buy the whole fucking town that kind of money. They realized the thanks to that hyper inflation. He's just going to get like a fucking loaf of bread. And maybe some donkeys pickled people meet back. Nineteen now this year. The building jack germond economic crisis forces. Carl to sell the house had paid way too. Much fucking money for He continued to live there now. Renting the small apartment on the first floor from the people he sold it to any still gets used sweet shed in the backyard. He apparently made a terrible sale. Just like he made a terrible purchase and soon he lost his entire inheritance can barely pay rent spite his economic. Fall the weimar republic as is now called following where one such shit show. He's still considered lower middle. Class has at least he has a job working a butcher and he has a place to stay. That's how bad things were if you had enough money to rent studio apartment. Thirteen feet by thirteen feet with accompanying shed in the yard in a small town. You still weren't thought of as poor. You're middle class. Oh my god. I picture some middle class kid. You know being teased at school must be nice. Him must be nice to be able to play in a big fatty shed wish. My parents were that rich. We live in a chicken coop nor better off than the rest of our family most of my cousins and the dog houses carl's home is now owned by the gabriel families. Who would later provide a few details about his life to investigators after he's arrested nine thousand eight thousand nine hundred twenty four. The final six years of karl's life. He works at a homeless shelter. Seems nice at first. But i think he was scouted out future victims. They're figuring out how to You know how they went missing. No one would probably look for them. I don't get a feel for that population. His tenants and locals or the tenants. Yeah sorry the locals around town started calling him pompa dinky around this time because they liked him so much also during the period from nine thousand eighteen nineteen twenty four his killing frequency seemed to ramp up considerably and authorities still had no idea he was zero killer not until shortly after he died following his red at the end of nineteen twenty four although he was well liked he was treated with suspicion by some because of his lonely life but because of his sexual indifference he was described as neither man or woman in a source and was judged by the town for never taking a wife. He was known for being polite humble donating to charity and letting the homeless day for free department before he was found to be a murder Do that you know. Let them stay department so he could kill him but they didn't know that the time but he wasn't liked by some because he didn't have a wife fund can set off people's radars the fact that you heard screams coming from his apartment bother you know not really the blood. You saw on his clothes on numerous occasions that upset you know. I don't know the fact that you saw. Numerous men enter his apartment and never leave everybody. You know never thought a thing about it. So so what did body about him. He was single. What kind of monster. He never asked anyone out. Look we all get blood on us. From time to time. We have people in our homes. We all have the occasional death cry blast out of our humble abodes. What kind of sick fucks stay single. Also around nineteen when carl would have been forty eight. He cut up almost contact with his brothers. I love the situation that led to this. I love these weird details apparently during all the time in munster burke right he'd been living in town three miles away for his brothers since eighteen ninety-five twenty three years right his brothers to live in just outside of town on the family farm and you had an extended a single dinner invitation. Either one of their homes. Things are tense in the family and he finally does. It does not go well. It's the one and only time. you'll have dinner. With one of his brothers. As his brother gets furious with him for eating quote two pounds of meat in one sitting and calls him a glutton. You meet what was left of their relationship after this infamous meet squabble. Carl never comes back to his house. Ever curious neighbor talking to one of his brothers in this happens. Vital to talk to you by the collymore tomorrow me. Too much style meets. I mean seriously. Let's kind of go man. It's two pounds of meat and van dinner as a guest i. My wife gives him half pounds of meat to carefully vitamin in the kitchen on the scale for us for our guests but don't want to same stingy. Don't want the same cold. We make sure every guests get half pound of meat. Every guest is generous amount. Sean heights ask asking them one. The only give the guess a caught the pound me the rickenbach. It's a hashtag baloney all gravel baloney but the farmers doing vail for many of the half pound of meet someone ask for seconds people giving them a second half pound of meat with us lovett's but we don't make us. This is times as much as shown heights and they are not stingy. No one gives guest as much meat as the dan kissed. But carl. how always been such a problem. Yes what thirds full force. And then he doesn't take thank you for so much meat. Many families have much meetings a whole month. And he gets me you price-setting we shake our heads. We call him a glutton already. We don't care for him so much is are so odd and that was the last straw. That was the last thing. I was fairly may not have cared for him now. In the last years of his life when he was killing the most people. Carl social life seems to have finally blossomed last couple years as early fifties car was apparently well liked and popular monster burke. He was an organ player at the local church. Carry crosses at funerals as all good people do. That's someone's good person. They play the church. And you know the funeral. Well you can trust them to He had city permission to sell meat and closed door to door which is horrifying because he was almost certainly selling people for years permission to sell me to look market. Now call swot weekly market. He sold leather. Suspenders belts. Shoelaces as well. And i think they were likely made out of body parts. You'll see why soon While he was no longer the rhubarb king. He did gain a reputation in his last years for selling some really tasty bonus pickled pork. That sounds so horrific that was almost certainly Pickled people in addition to selling his probably you know a pig people meet. Carl often traveled to You know selling locally. He also traveled to breslau a slightly larger town. Sixty kilometers thirty eight miles away sell pickled people or pork and human skin and are leather goods at their meat. Market curls fucked up me. Mark was a popular spot for local shoppers. He was known for having fresh cheap tender juicy meat and it was probably human Do to that inflation crisis people hungry. They had almost no money for food like we talked about. There was happy to get their hands on some cheap sweetmeat and carl because he was murdering his meat not spending any money known raising livestock. He was able to sell as meat for good price. Good meet at a cheap price bound to make any butcher popular in the weimar republic early twenties. Then his human meets slinging days suddenly come to an end on december twenty first nineteen twenty four when carl donkeys arrested after being accused of murder. And then just a few hours later. He commits suicide. The community is shocked. Lot of people found him out but almost no one thought he was a criminal of he. Played the oregon. Come on. he's not a murderer. Here's how the night of his arrest went down a likelihood there are a few different accounts out there most slightly different this one. I feel about a thirty five year. Old homeless man named vincennes. Oliver enters the city of munster berg on the twenty-first looking for work like any other german will like many germans. I guess not any other. But you know what i mean. vincennes classified. An old newspaper counts as a vagabond. One of many travelling artisans who wandered from town to town turning their hands to any bit of work that might earn the meal and a bed. They were ill fed. Ill close lot. Many of them former soldiers partially crippled by the war and regarded by more substantial citizens. As little more than tramps as a rule they congregate at the cheapest in in the poorer section of town not been able to afford any better. I come from an old newspaper. Count vincennes arrived in munster. Berg goes to a local hangout spot known for vagabonds and sends his Just come from straight win a town thirty miles away and he quickly hear stories about papa. Danke kind local man with a reputation for helping out. those down on their luck. He'll he'll give you a bowl of stew in warm beds. Sleeping of incense. Desperate and hungry needs a place to stay after knocking on some other doors following up other leads About other kinds strangers. He arrives across donkeys house. He knocks on carl's door. Crawl bites men asking. Are you a stranger here. Yes sir says vincennes. I have just arrived and then danke asked him a scavenger ten. How do you do you think you are in vincennes thinking. You must've heard it was like what did you ask me. And then donkey is like scan of under ten ten being the butt. Stakes will pass for the finest fully when on beef with the balance finest steaks. And vaughn bean if you pick them enough right spices to and some salt Some down on the lock. Stuggling family would go. You know not kotov say it's chocolate how you taste no. He didn't say that tends crazy skill set. Of course not what you really asked was. Are you looking for work. I need someone to write a letter from me. This was apparently his scan. This comes up a few times Eager for any money. He given sends responded. I'm sure i could do it to your satisfaction. Sir a no great penman. But letters. I write or legible. Carl offers to pay him twenty equivalent to about ten bucks an to buy some food at the time vincennes. Greece do the work for the offered. Price steps into carl's creepy hassle apartment. Carl was cooking mystery meat. Stew vincennes walks in comes. In sits down he eats the meats do. He eats people his stew with people. Sits down at the table was carl. He so hungry he Even needs the fat and gristle he would later say been since. Thanks for the food. Carl asked him to start. Writing letter. vincennes sits down to write You know or. I guess he's already been down. He starts right crawl gets up paces around behind him. Bs dictate the letter. Dear albert you fat belly. I did not make that weird openings. The letter apparently. That's what he said coalesce into right. Somebody deal dear albert fat belly and while his guests had his eyes focused down was distracted. Carl grabs an axe vincennes. Takes the pause turns around to ask wants to begin with a date instead of just opening with the greeting a turns his head and carl is stand with the pick axe swinging it down. He ducks as carl. The swinging the axe grandsons office had get stuck in the table stunned. But not knocked out. Vincennes and carl now fight There's a big struggle. it's not totally certain. How big carl dinky was. But descriptions of him and the picture of his body made me think he was a bear dude broad shoulders. A barrel chest couldn't have been easy fight after getting hit with an accident ahead especially carl latches onto. Vincent refuses to let him go. Vincennes games or continues to struggle does manage to escape from carl's grasp continues calling for help as he runs out of the apartments. Massive amount of blood porn out of an open wound on his head. Incredibly his wound later only required stitches and he'd be fine. No school fracture. No major brain injuries Turning his head at the last second saved his life and put an end to the long run of serial killer. Another account claims that after vincennes ran screaming into the street. Some neighbors asked who injured him. He pointed to carl who is now standing in the doorway of his home. Red-faced twitching shaking grinding. His teeth the neighbors couldn't believe the nice old weird but nice papa. Danke tried to randomly murder someone. Now they try to apprehend been sends thinking. He must have tried to hurt. Papa donkey and papa defending himself so since get away again he does. He continues running all the way to the police station. Once made it to the police station. He makes a formal complaint and a first. Please do not believe what he's telling them. The papa danke. Nowhere does attacked him with an axe but then a doctor treats him confirms the wounds could have indeed probably did result from an a an axe wound. The police led by sergeant. Millennials are still reluctant to talk to donkey of incentives vagabond. Papa danke a A a local fairly citizen. They warn vincennes the popular. He's gonna sue them for slander and they threatened to put him in jail for two weeks for making false accusations and then they did hold him in jail for essentially being homeless vagrant vagrancy laws from his cell now now he's arrested for being attacked spore bathroom and since he refuses to recant. His statements about carl. The officers leave reluctantly to go. Talk to. Karl wants to make to his apartment He doesn't let him in. He comes outside to greet him. He admits to to attack in vincennes and then they bring him down station talk further. They still don't think it's his fault he tells them he only attacked vincennes because he intends to tried to rob him. He was trying to defend his property. Police now decide to take back to donkeys place to recreate this attack. See they can find out more details they tell danke they're going to have to go inside his apartments and when he when they say that to donkey he gets real quiet. Carl stops responding to their questions. Now get's despondent. Of course he does. He knew what they were gonna find. He knew that his killing days were now over. Suddenly the officers thing for the first time that maybe there is something to have been sent story just a few hours later before investigators checkout thanks apartment at eleven thirty pm a sergeant peers into danke cell and finds him dead by his handkerchief. Carl had tied handkerchief to the to ring in the wallman chains that he laid down on the floor. Press down with all of his wait until he choked to death. Thank if used. If you're like how the fuck it. The handkerchief wasn't small square fabric that many normally think of with handkerchiefs today back then german handkerchiefs. Mullick scarfs plenty plenty long enough to turn into a noose. The photo of his body taken right after he committed. Suicide is the only confirmed picture of him. We have a his final near victim. Vincennes oliver still in. He was actually sends a ten days in jail for vagrancy then couple days later. December twenty four th nineteen twenty four. Police go to curl donkeys home after delivering his corpse to his family. According to one source they still don't think danke was a murderer. They feel bad for him. they're really worried about. Who's gonna pay for carl's funeral according to the same source to please go to his apartment You know i mean yeah. They're gonna check things album. Mostly they're going to look for some money to pay for the funeral a. Let's department that christmas eve and the police do not find money. That's going to help pay for his funeral They do find something more akin to the set of a rob zombie slasher flick one of the first things they find human flesh in jars of with and various pots pickled people nice They finally find. I'm sorry the also find bloody clothes from various victims in carl's closet. They little of human bones long with a bunch of cured meet people meet other determined based on the way it stored that it was meet danke had likely prepared to sell at the meat stand and they find his murder. Journal has ledger that ledger. With the details of thirty people He'd murdered and eaten over the years. I say details names. Dates basely mostly. It's clear now that everybody papa donkeys the pedantic particular child has been logging his murders just sell used meticulous and his meticulous ended up biting him in the ass has ledger. Well i guess he's already dead. So what does he care his ledger indicators. Victims were beggars journeymen and tramps for the most part weird to me tramps valley's he's vagrant. he's trump. he's a hobo. All people who probably didn't have anyone looking for them on the window sill. They find several documents with discharge records of people released from prisons and hospitals. Right before danke killed him in the kitchen. They find to tubs of pick. That's fucking gross to tubs of pickled meat and various bones in pots of fat. Carl made shirt waste no parts of the bodies they determine the amount of human bones tissue equates to at least thirty victims mentioned in the ledger. The only kind good news they uncovered was that it didn't seem like any of his victims. Suffered much he seems to kill them before. Butcher them doesn't seem like they were tortured. So why did he do it. Initial crime report declares. The car lacked moral judgment and was not a sadistic killer. He was just often hungry. Broke and the victims were simply were simply killed for food and money. Then when the police interview his family is you know his brothers they theorized that part of his motivation for the murders came for his love of meat threaten as his love of meat. Seriously he'd apparently always loved meet way more than the average bear. Remember the whole two pounds of meat. One meal the buckle brothers you know also for that dinner. Carl's not the worst guy. He's not some sexual sadists or anything he just by academy fucking loves meat. He loves meat so much. that's all he was just. He was a digit to the meat. And killing the only way he could get it really loving meet Does bring me to one final sponsor for today so just bear with me for one last commercial as time so if is brought to you by crawls cafe and mall shop l. dina sexy kala this. I'm cold and i want you to come to my coffee. Donnas truthful south but the finest talk mouth and the sexiest humblest. What mostly people come for the at special check out this week's special. The dinky pickled mystery meat to bonds a pickup. Mr meet what does nine ninety nine king cobbler. Justice thing to down to mr means we have to bring a kid isn't check out our wonderful children's menu bringing regular. I will be happy to cover. Dental plates with copious amounts of semen are seen lebron fry sauce. It's quite delicious. A vision creamy house raspy is made by myself every morning coming down to cost. Cafe vets promise old sponsor. There haven't had kohl's cafe by ads in a while. I see them back. A lab testing would detect human proteins and a lot of the meat. Investigators found his place. Doctors also analyze danke stomach and detected human protein in some not fully adjusted. Meet there. he was for sure cannibal. And i think he had a lot of human meet and pick of him taking right after he died. He looks Let's fed look a doodoo through down two pounds of meat in a single meal. On the rig info for the first time i started wondering how many pounds of human me this dude probably eat over the years more than anyone else in recent history. Hundreds of pounds worth over a thousand pounds worth. Let's math just for funds. These they think he killed at least thirty people and then he killed them for me right. I didn't get more googling that. I'm sure sent some more alerts to whatever. Federal agent is in charge of cyprus cyber surveillance on me and appears that the average human has about seventy five pounds of meat on seventy five times thirty two thousand two hundred fifty pounds like the most fucked up story problem. Let's kids let's say sold half and then the other half how much you that leaving with over. Eleven hundred pounds of people meet for him to eat a lot of meat. A two thousand eighteen study conducted by the usda the us department of agriculture found that americans. Eight record amount of meat two thousand eighteen the average american a two hundred and twenty two pounds of meat and poultry. How much each doesn't say by. I think it's safe to say that the average meeting person needs more poultry than red meat. So let's say that. The average american eats around i one hundred pound meter four hundred quarter pound burgers now imagining four hundred quarter pound burgers year over eleven years. Now imagine that every single one of those burgers did not come from a cow but from a person. That's how much people meet. I think danke could have easily could have beaten more than that. He's not the average meter not many or thrown down two pounds a meal and since dinky pre present. His people meet not as beef and pork. Check out these quick stats. According to twenty twenty stats. The average american eats just a tick over sixty six pounds of pork a year. A lot of bacon sausages pork chops. It would take someone almost seventeen years eating over sixty six pounds of pork a year. Eat eleven hundred pounds of pork and he may have eaten more than that so much. Fucking mystery meat. Who were all the people he killed. Eight you know. They range in age from at least as young as sixteen to at least as old as seventy six mostly men and almost all people wandering to the area looking for work on december twenty fifth nineteen twenty four christmas day. Local newspapers began writing articles about danke bringing his horrifying story to the public. They discuss his double life of carrying crosses at funerals helping beggars donating to charity They wondered if he did all that just to make the community. He was a good guy. Said it'd be easier for him to kill over and over again and just keep getting away with it then week later one. Local german paper writes that Between christmas and new year's i love this. The sale of local pork drastically declines bet. That is not a good story for pork sales. How many people literally threw up after reading about donkeys secret meet source hundreds thousands. Bobby willie picton from a few weeks ago modest from mount human meat to the good people vancouver british columbia this motherfucker for sure. Sold a lot of human not trace amounts to the people around montebourg. The surrounding areas after. This news comes out pork sales in both munster burger and a breslow. His two main meat declined significantly. According to old sources of papers all of lower silesia was afraid eat meat. Apparently maybe this is a little bit sensationalized. One source said it led to a small localized additional economic crisis. Several meat canning and processing plants closed down temporarily the whole region suffered from reporting stomach disorders after finding out that so many of them might have consumed so much human meat guy. There was so much. Puke analyst jump ahead a year and change and go over the final results of a lot of analysis and investigation. That was done donkeys property. If you're eating you should maybe stop before listening to this portion of the episode. If you thought that what. I've gone over already is bad This gets way worse. We really get into the nitty gritty details of what day he was up to and nineteen ninety-six. Frederick petrosky the acting head of the institute of legal medicine and breslow wrote a full report on the donkey crime scene. The report was published in the german journal for all of forensic medicine. The translation for the report comes from german forensic biologist mark benecke. This is pretty disturbing stuff. And i think it deserves some pretty serious kind of atmospheric music behind. It's so let me set the appropriate mode. Oh come on. I'm sorry that's not right. That was terrible. That was Automated like a mockery. That's this is serious stuff. Now let me let me find. I'm sorry about that. Let me find something. A lot more suited to read this report with the first findings made in donkeys house during the search for bones and pieces of meat the latter. We're in a salt solution. Founded the wooden drums there were altogether fifteen pieces of skin two parts of the breast. Which is strongly harry the torso has cut through the middle three fingers above the naval lateral limited the front shoulder blade and the piece of the anterior abdominal wall. The middle of the naval is visible. Remaining pieces belong to the side and backwards largest is about forty by twenty centimetres large particularly striking with very clean anus with large parts of both buttocks. Sorry i know that did not set the right musical town. It was probably a bit distracting with me. When i picked out and i read that passage to lindsay will work in a home. I can cry left. it's just so preposterously totally off. It's so inappropriate. Random royalty free game show music a that music played at a funeral. You're at his house. That would make everything. How surreal now. Just everyone sad. This music is in the background. He was a good man. Who's a great husband provider. Father we love you. Know he loves game show and then the end. That's what got him killed. He tried to impress the producers. Wipeout by who didn't now. I'm fucking lunatic Crime detail one last one. I'm sorry on that last one So distract the music and distract myself. I want to circle back to one of the last details of what i just read Particularly striking with a very clean anus with large parts of both buttocks. Are we sure he was not motivated by anything. Other than a powerful of of meat. Was he just eating those people or was he also a sexual sadist necrophiliac. Why did he have a clean butthole around. No wonder he lived alone. Never dated hard. Explain that five seconds after walking woman in department. He's like oh you know what places ed. I'm sorry. I forgot how is places. Apologies should have at least out of respect. Put away that cleaned. Pickled buttle the crime scene report continues without them music. The meat is brownish. Red does not feel as if the body would have lost much blood on the black on the back. Some soft bluish discoloration is visible as well as liver mortis which leaves the conclusion that the disassembly of the body took place several hours after death. There is no evidence of vital reaction of the bodies to the cuts made which means that the latter were not made while the victims were still alive nevertheless some skin and muscles for the next. We're still miss. Were missing as well as as extremities arms and legs head and sexual organs lesions could be determined nor the nature of death nor the tool of crime and three medium sized pots filled with cream sauce. Some cooked meat partially covered with skin and human hair was found. The meat was pink and soft. All pieces seem to be cut from the gluteal area buttocks one. Pot had only half a portion. Dinky must've eaten the other piece shortly before being arrested there. Just catch that part about this dude. Having some cooked meat. Still having harry skin attached on the stove he didn't bother to get rid of the but hair savage why feel like he and serial killer albert fish and some other parallel universe will just be the best friends just have a standing weekly dinner date habitable off tobacco and bimbo stifles harry sake. They even more might have table and got us some peanut butter showbiz. That is how they do it. Not listen to the albert fish episode a time if you really need to understand what has happened there philly dinky spice rack must've been pretty liked if hearing about the hair. I don't like much of a cook by people. Apparently liking this weird pickled sheets. I just don't feel like he was mastering his culinary skills. If you know after two decades he's still happy to cook up some sloppy harry. But a so fucking discussing other report continues. I should like to mention here that there is no evidence danke as ever sold the meat of his victims. All evidence has obviously been eaten however it seems that his guests that is the vagabonds were offered aid. It's interesting that they would write this. I wonder if they wrote this to maybe try and make the public feel better. Of course he was selling this this. This dude sold me all the time from door to door. He was a butcher when he died. There was cooked human flesh. There's still more in his belly. He had prepared about meat. You know to be eaten or sold it butchered previous victims times tough sold easily. He wanted extra money. No fucking way. This dude didn't sell so much human meat back to the report. In the third part we found numerous pieces of human skin. Parts of the order in a gelatinous mass a bold in the table in his room was filled with amber colored fats that appeared to be human biological tests gave a weak positive result for the presence of human protein in the shed in which the meat pieces were found was also a barrel of bones that were cleaned of tendons muscles etc that most probably have been primarily cooked the investigation initially revealed the existence of six forearm bones which means they belong to three people at least other traces were found behind the shed. Part of leg remained in the pond. The danke had doug many years before and also skeletal. Pieces were uncovered. The forest here is the full list of what has been sent to us for examination now before we go forward. I know this. Next thing. I'm gonna do is terrible. I know but. I can't myself and i need to get this out of my head. Allow me to read this list. Pleased with the game show music underneath as if that were reading. What the winning contestant of fucked up game show. Is you know what they're taking home with the price. Tell them what they won. Sixteen favors the which one pair of remarkably strong ones to the very thin one. Six pairs in two left femur fifteen medium sized pieces of long bone four pairs of elbow bone seven heads of radii nine lower parts of radii eight lower part of the elbow. A pair of upper shinbone pair of lower elbows and radio is which extremity sue still remain. Well connected pair of upper arms and a pair of overarm ed's bare collarbone to solo blades. Eight heels and ankle bones. One hundred twenty toes sixty five feet and metacarpal bones and ribs and one hundred fifty pieces of ribs l. That'll wrap thank for pu. Did they help control the pet population. Have your pet spayed or neutered. come on. that's a little funny right. You know to find that really. Funny my dad. That's interesting where the fuck where the fuck was he when he was doing what he did. Hard to say back to the report all bones with the exception of a few very light porous and fatness and the municipal force remained as well parts of the spine in four parts of a clean dissecting male pelvis which on one side showed traces of sock cutting one piece of head bone was found. This is a piece of the inferior inferior betrothal signs area jagged on the front side. It looks broken. Bears visible signs of sharp sign on his top. This piece of bone is cross marked with ink head bone. Don't come across head bone a lot of forensic reports but that's gotta be a weird translation. Right i mean. Aren't you supposed to write skull. Their space him sound so weird in my head. Funny if he did actually right head bone. I feel i feel like that would really take away from the legitimacy of a forensic report is investigator. Kept saying stuff like head bun and feel like when you say you head bone. You probably also don't use proper terms for other stuff. This deserves some music right now. Let's get some cloud on this for a very odd report. Wait just that's a game. Show music there. I know buttons to push. He could say here though. Look to the. Here's the hip bone here holder. Space before being shot also appeared victims stabbed with a long start metal thing slash burger seven on a head bone here starting to run a nose whole moving down towards the low harlow cutter grinder bone thing as given this. I ain't gonna sleep last night given the size and condition of the bones. We can assume that there was one particularly strong individual to others were of delicate bone structure and other suffered from kake. Vera cox avera is a hip deformity. Leaves you through with a short leg in a limp. How much in various the cutting surfaces of the bones are jagged as if blunt force was applied such as the blunt end of an axe or hammer some bones were visibly saad few spots show traces of sharp tool and acts most probably similarly such traces were found in the articulations which must have been cut with a knife based on these findings were able to declare that the bones sent to us belong to at least eight people. At least eight different people there they would also find numerous additional skeletons and partial skeletons buried around the in the coming years and then there's the teeth only shit. His dental collection totaled three hundred and fifty one teeth. So many fucking teeth like some the straight of a horror movie. The teeth rebounded in money back to ten boxes for salt and pepper. Three paper bags meant to hold pepper. The resorted based on size The molars were in the money bag. Got a guy i mean. Of course the more money back Others when the tin box in the tin box and paper bags one paper bag there seemed to be a set of teeth belonging to just one person the special senate teeth and the third paper bag they found three lower incisors with the strongly a trophic structure by have been from an older person. Those are some specialties. All but six teeth were well preserved. These teeth were estimated to belong to twenty to twenty five different people conservatively. Oh shit some teeth seem to be easily extracted while others have been extracted with force. Tease showed a natural fractures and claw marks might have cooked people's jaws and advance to remove some of the teeth from analysis of the teeth. The they know they knew the now had almost no young victims. Four fifths of the victims were seniors. One person was sixteen but the majority of victims were older than forty. Two are estimated to be Be between twenty and thirty and one victim between thirty and forty. I got this guy deal with all the teeth cleaned on just killing people because you really love eating meat and me was expensive. I feel like best case. And that's a really dark best case he was harvesting people and seeing how much you could profit from all their parts right. Yeah you could sell some meat. And maybe somebody wanted by tasty. But harry buttsteak. Maybe you don't care. Their skin makes them fucking belts and shit. Maybe maybe he can make teeth jewelry or something. I don't know worst case. He was another serial killer who feel compelled to kill these words trophies. The teeth weren't creepy. Now there are other findings revealed that he experimented with human leather and soap made from human fats. They found three pairs of suspenders. Made from human skin again. I think of ed gain got imagine those two motherfuckers together right maybe comparing homemade outfits with each other. We think he's baskin boots. So sick gains us sack. We think this beret pubic hair. Oh my god. I love it. I bet you ed geene knew about karl. He started committing his crimes. Thirty years after carl died Also gains grandpa was from germany. He was no gain was known to have read anything he could find about both true crime and cannibalism. He was eighteen. danke died. I bet gained was a big yankee. Fan backed donkeys human skin spenders. Hugh skin from the chest to the pubic area to make his leather. Carl was actually wearing human leather suspenders. When he died. I'm not making this fucking ridiculous detail Some of his spenders still had nipples and pubic hair on them by god. Some of them actually had pubic lice. I swear this with a source pew pubic lice on the pubic hair on his skin spenders. Clearly he was not doing this just for the meat. I don't think he would do all this shit for the money. He spent a lot of time with these dead bodies and his family. You know there was any money. Sometimes he didn't have to do this. He just was fucking crazy. He liked it but he got off on it. Sky was evil maniac. He's wearing suspenders. When he died thing about dark that is he was wearing skin spenders with pubic hair on him and people ice This this guy makes robert pickton. From a few weeks ago seem not as ghoulish which i didn't even think was possible new that suck but what about. They're making a mild proud making a skin. Spannis goatee brash. Sports to pick ships. I'm indica star about some business things. She was gonna come back to you. You probably would. you wouldn't. In addition was that that was my mama picket. The worst character. I've ever created a few weeks ago. In addition to his skin spender. his pup- spenders is benders. Dinky also made human leather straps polish with shoe polish. That's fun. They found forty-one bundles of rags held together with human skin straps the rags washington folded Rolled up and tied with some strings strings. Made from human hair what they thought were wicker baskets. Initially they found out were made from human skin. This fucking lunatic. Even used human hair to makes his shoelaces. This is also found a coin collection as apartment. Presumably a bunch coins from people he killed skinned eight cetera found. Id cards private papers for several individuals in the room. They found loose sheets of paper. That were part of that victim ledger. We mentioned in front of each naming put a date. The entire list was in chronological order. Excuse me that list of began at number eleven ended at number thirty one for female victims. He usually only wrote their first name for male victims included birthdays occupation where they were staying and their social status so weird that he didn't do that for the women and only then as little regard as you head for the guys seem to have less for women in one column. He put the victims initials in a number. Most likely. i think they're wait. This is my speculation. Didn't say that and they sources but found another Paper with names. It'd be like dead one. Twenty two one zero seven disemboweled. Eighty three and this kind of system was repeated often throughout the ledger. I think referring to wait there right. Kilograms probably dead one hundred twenty two kilograms naked. Hundred seven wants disemboweled. Eighty three. I mean one hundred seven kilograms. That will be my size joined. Three five pounds roughly How they'd be wearing extra thirty three pounds of close but if it was in the winter i mean heavy winter boots. You know heavy winter coats workshirt pans etcetera ios the more substantial fabric back. Then i think it's possible and again list went all the way to thirty one. He written thirty one left blanket. Line was empty. You know because. That's what was meant for vincennes oliver. That guy who'd gotten away and expose monster. The tools dinky used to cut his victims found in his apartment Was three axes. Large woodshop would saw tree saw pick ax three knives. Police took everything but the actors in the tree saw those were sent for human protein. Testing came back positive Such different time. This dude got away with killing for years even though he was so sloppy right just action people after inviting them into little apartment. That was right next to what to other units a three other units. I'm just kind of put on my ass right now. bullies people to single wall away for a couple of neighbors. Cook them up them. Costner bones into a pile. Apparently throwing their bloody clothes into a corner. Investigators also determined as stated in this big comprehensive reports that none of donkeys crimes appeared to have been sexually motivated after taking all this in the author of the definitive investigative report felt a donkey was a highly organized meticulous person with no moral compass but not a sexual sadist. One investigator unnamed source article. Said probably didn't mean to harm people but his need for food was primordial after a series of failures at school farming business. He found a simple and effective means of procuring food and probably income by killing vagabonds. He met at the train station. He could gain their trust quite easily. Take them home virtually unnoticed. The train station was short. Walk from his place and both were on the outskirts of town psychiatrists. The time believes believed the economic troubles may have led to cannibalism. This appetite said the experts was the real foundation of his butcheries. He had become a slave stomach and had to satisfy his craving at any price. I don't know. I feel like it was a bit more complicated than that but who knows maybe hunger did driving to kill than some. Ocd tendencies drove into to organize all the body parts. Like he did. Maybe some autistic tendencies drove to do that. Maybe but i i doubt it. I still feel like this was about way more than just food making some extra money. Also how in the world. He goes so unnoticed for so many years. I mean i know things in germany were were fucked up at come. Odd neighbors apparently did notice some pretty weird things but they just didn't report report. Didn't think much of it Two men managed to escape. Africa attempted to murder them before he was reported to the police. By that third guy who escaped they just never reported him there was happy away The only the only talked about what happened to them after he was dead and gone once one of his own butcher apprentices ran out of his apartment covered in blood was never seen again some people theorize dinky found him later killed him Or maybe dinky talked him into helping him. Butcher a person that he freaked out and ran away. Mchugh magin being that ghouls apprentice a vagabond. Once complained to neighbors across asan to write a letter. I love the all state distracted. Write a letter. So i actually while i actually in the head trick While he was writing pinky tried to strangling with a chain though. Yeah so he has chain not access time He was able to overpower him escape again. He didn't report the incident to police. I guess germany was such a shit show at the time that he didn't think the police would care. Maybe they wouldn't or they wouldn't believe him again. The chain detail makes me wonder if his crimes worst actually motivated again choking so intimate not as quick so personal so many rapists and sexually motivated killers choke as my dad was talking about He talks about all the times. We're j. jay. Investigators said that there was no evidence. He sexually assaulted as victims. That doesn't mean it wasn't sexual and it also doesn't mean that he didn't sexually assault victims. I don't trestle reports right. Maybe jerk off into the bodies or on them. Maybe he did have sex with them right. I mean their bodies were all carved out today that they know what parts he had sex with or not. I feel like modern. Investigators might come to some very different conclusions about this dude. Also of modern psychiatrists would have able to interview him. I feel like we learned his kills. Had way more to do with just one sweet meat one. Those two pounders hungry man dinners to bounds the donkey dinner also thinking about what his neighbors thought after he got caught. How many times did they smelled him. that meet cooking next door neighbors had at times over. The years complained about a strong penetrating smell coming from his apartment. When asked about the smell danke would tell them. He had a disease that required animal fat treatment. What a dumb excuse whole that weird explanation. It would no longer work today unless your neighbors. Total fucking idiots if i smell. Roddy meet government neighbor's house. And i asked my neighbour about it and they were like. Oh that oh. That's just the smell of animal fat. I cook up and take for my disease. I would immediately assume there were a serial. They'll all that. He always had plenty of meat. Even during the worst of the hyperinflation period Three different families that lived in the house with danke all gossiped. A bit about it They thought he was killing cats and dogs for medicine to treat to treat his weird disease. What a what a weird old time to think. Oh ya ya. We figured he was just kidding. But just people we assumed as von is likely to do. He's carrying the cats and the dogs eat never using their fats. Treat his random never properly described disease. Didn't really care these killing pets because things were so bad in germany. The time that that wasn't that atypical. They saw important buckets of blood into the courtyard behind apartment. They didn't report him for that because they thought it was just a dog. Blood bojangles just to me for saying just dog blood. Sorry bojangles not. My assessment of the value. Dogs live just relate information late at night. Neighbors did later say they heard. Jesus christ hammering and sawing coming from his apartment but never called the police. Why not well they. The dinky was just working late preparing some of that sweetmeat to sell at the market the next day. Now he just butchering some dogs and cats. For that animal fat. He needed his treatise vague disease. I got no time to really tough. But i hope none of his neighbors had pets. How could you have a pet and think. Oh well no cause for alarm. I mean sure my neighbors killing a fuck two cats and dogs dumping a bucket full of blood now times are tough for cats dogs and cats. You know as appel over. I don't like it but as a hunter ally. I'm impressed after news. A serial killer neighbors did tell investigators and journalists. They noticed he was always wearing different secondhand clothing That he was carrying large packages out of his apartment on regular basis. You know the time these question even crazier in the weeks leading up to his dad's curl had a human rib just laying on the window sill for anyone to walk by and see no one question that either ballsy or sloppy you know. Maybe just forgot where he's at that one rib and they just couldn't see papa danke someone capable of murder so they ignored any signs that something was amiss. Big investigative report came out about carl donkey historic made the papers a few days in quickly went away. How how could that crazy of a story. Not be big big news. Well a different serial killer. We'll talk more about soon. Was hogging all the true crime headlines. Fritz harmon the werewolf of hanover. The vampire of hanover. The wolfman so many nicknames historic even darker Yeah tell a brief version of its soon. We're done wrapping up the time later in the nineteen forties when new polish owners purchased donkeys. House they discovered more bones from victims. But that didn't make any headlines young couple of things going on you know. Hitler to and nineteen seventies. Even more human remains found in his neighbor's garden That'd make international news because now the original story of dinky largely been forgotten then the eighties. Polish forensics professor produce the bush. That's i think. I'm saying of made a shocking discovery in nike story. Was reborn a little. Bit least locally. Total twelve hundred pictures have been dumped the medical academy of soi in the mid eighties during a renovation at the medical college francois The pictures allegedly belonged to the german institute of forensic medicine and breslow had belonged there until nineteen forty five when the city became polish. Rut soi at the time Deduce was an employee at the university was promoted to professor of molecular techniques the department of forensic medicine of the medical academy of raw saw. What a long fucking title Some of the pictures he found were of saw a pickaxe knives. Other pictures revealed sets of bones varies human parts. Another photo was a table. Full of meat. you in boeing suspenders. Made out of human skin. There was other pictures of spenders rags pair of shoes messy room filled with potts an old house wooden portrait of a dead man. That picture is now the only known photo of curled. Dinky we have He was so curious about these photos are talking to people he's specs. The photos depicted some form of cannibalistic activity but he does a quick search of polish criminal records. he can't find any stories about campbell's but then talking leads him to martine toss local journalists who did know about donkey and he told professor old. Gory details. professor dubuche. He told him about the Wooden shed in the pictures that was now gone destroyed after world war two by new polish owners. The house he told these new owners found buried skulls bones in the yard. He told him about donkeys murder ledger. The investigative report we went over then with a slate with salacious crime scene photos and knowledgeable a knowledge of the narrative. The legend of the cannibal of some beata has been rediscovered. Then in nine hundred ninety nine the cannibal from some beats up museum exhibit. We mentioned is created by. Let's sina a bialy. We met her. The start of the suck lucina was curator of the archive of old printed materials of the university library at peac in raw. She found danke story accidentally while she's preparing to back catalogue of old salesian press articles. She found the story danke separately from professor bush. If it wasn't for the worker professor dubuche and lucina across story may have died with a few people who knew about it. She presented her findings at a scientific conference into beata. She approached the mayor of zubieta. Dinky display at that town museum. He's torn about it. German history filled with murderers and cruel acts. He doesn't want to glorify darkness but he knew that laying claim to a famous cannibal could bring tourism to the town and boost a sagging economy. And then he decided boosting. The economy was worth promoting in association with cannibalism. He allegedly said. Let us think. Now how how we can exploit are few months later. Zubi beat says museum of household goods puts out a display for donkey. Still think that is the fucking worst name for museum. Something in translation has to been lahser Museum display featured and may still feature those photos found in the eighties as well as knives axes meat grinder tons of the info you heard today and that brings us to the end of donkeys. Carl donkeys time. Suck timeline good job. Soldier made it back bearing now for a bit more darkness right. We've already waited in so deep with danke might as well go further illustrate why. His story isn't more widely known right. The main reason carl story got lost in history probably due to all the press coverage fritz. Harman's murders got the werewolf of hanover. He was convicted just a few days before call killed himself. He be executed just under four months later. Also accountable and his murders were More sadistic more extreme much. More extreme actually Germany germany actually produce sadistically abnormal of cannibals in the first half of the nineteen hundreds for the twenty century. There why while the chaos that followed were one that Economy that basically completely collapsed people wandering the streets begging for food for jobs. The scapegoating began leading up to world. War two jewish people socialist communist blamed for the economic crisis the road to the holocaust being paid there was escalating violence against many people. Who'd been dehumanized the german zeitgeist at the time so much hate and angst in the air made people more willing to turn a blind eye to horrific crimes than they might reported in other circumstances and lead others to commit horrific crimes to Do kill for meat. I mean i guess. Think about if you'd already witnessed a jewish couple next door dragged from their homes beaten for doing nothing other than being jewish. If you already seen people being beaten for not being nationalistic enough guessing a lot of people are going to be pretty reluctant to contact authorities for anything. A lot of people probably want to keep as low profile as possible Many had stolen also killed lied to get food work to help their families survive That may have made them to report crimes and hunger help lead. You know Other people to commit crimes specifically of cannibalism danke had several contemporaries. None of them knew each other or were inspired by other. But all operate at the same time and fritz harmon was the most infamous of them and nineteen eighteen. Fritz had just finished a five year prison sentence for a series of burglaries at the age of thirty nine. He entered the of hanover known for high crime rates at the time. Perfect place for guy planning on any lama crimes. Fritz been in and out of jail for years prior to nineteen eighteen mainly for fraud theft and also for sexually assaulting children real monster real shit. Fritz probably had a tough childhood donkeys characterized by abuse at the hands. Violent father for instance. Father actually tried to have him put an institution when he discovered that his son was a homosexual. Sadly a big crime. At that time. I was molested by one of the schools growing up when he was just eight years old years later after we left prison in one thousand nine hundred and i became a police informant in hanover locally. Trusted him light him so much he was given the nickname detective. They paid him the gave him a badge and unbeknownst to them. You know all of this just lead to more crimes more really horrible crimes. I began attacking him molesting young homeless boys using his badge to gain their trust. Most of them very young not even teenagers. His favorite spot to catch homeless boys was the railroad station where they gathered to beg for food or money like danke he targeted people who wouldn't be missed people with little or no family ties. He lured them to his apartment with the promise of hot meal and potential jobs once inside for its attack them or excuse me attacked them rape them then murdered them and this is not something i've ever heard of before this is beyond horrific. He often murdered them by tearing their throats out with his teeth. Holy shit you did not hear that wrong. He would tear their throats out with his teeth. Wow that's how we got the doing names of the vampire of hanover in the werewolf of hanover on several occasions harmon bit clear through his victims. Adam's apples trachea harmon later referred to his acts of biting through his victims. Next as a love bite. Holy shit he drank their blood and indulge necrophiliac activities true monster. He then took your body's up to his attic. Transform their flesh into buckets transferred. Excuse me Transformed that's super weird transformed their flesh but made Flush it's now. He transferred their flesh into buckets. Either cook or dispose of he also either sometimes closed gave their clothing to his lover and former male escort. Hans grants sweats his name. Or hundred grands hans grants. Who'd sometimes i catch his kids. Fritz similar to danke pretended to be a meat. Market trader sold buckets of human flesh along with second hand clothes in three. That one source. He pretend magazine really pretend he he was he was he just wasn't selling You know the meat. He claimed himself he told his customers. It was horsemeat and he got a lot of people to eat human flesh. We think he sold his product lower price in the competition. Like danke You know desperate people hungry in horrific economy willing to buy to feed and clothe their families his first victim seventeen year old friedel roth who disappeared in nineteen. He was last seen with fritz harmon. The police interviewed fritz but didn't make much of an effort to see if he was really the killer because they wanted to keep their informant working for them eventually court. I would brag that when investigators came to his apartment to talk to him. The head of the boy was lying wrapped in newspaper behind the oven. Yeah neighbors were suspicious of fritz on many occasions but didn't report him occasionally see hans With the suits of a missing boy or see fritz wherein you know Close the missing boys. They also noted seeing lots young men into the apartment but never leave a late at night. The her chopping and sawing. They just told themselves at. Fritz was just preparing some you know meet for the for the market the next day when they saw him carrying buckets of blood like danke they assumed it was animal blood such strange times i even had his neighbors take care of some of the human bones for him. He gave them away so they can make soups telling him who's various animal bones. Neighbors were suspicious but still never wanted. The police. finally at a meat market one customer was so concerned about this product. She took a sample of the police thinking it was human meat but they dismissed her told her was just pork. They still didn't want to believe i was guilty of anything. He was just too good of an informant by nineteen twenty-three he'd been killing for five years now he still worked with the police at helping them form secret organization to combat french occupation of the ruhr area of west germany. He's working directly with a bunch of detectives at that time. Local newspaper start putting public pressure on the police to investigate a lot of missing boys. This is so sad. One newspaper estimated that six hundred area boys had disappeared in just the past year. Rumors started to spread that where will was eating the children. It was dismisses paranoia until a skull washed up on the banks of local river. Then in may of nineteen twenty four public pressure intensifies when more skulls wash up then some sacks of human remains wash up from the river as well dredges than digged up the riverbed and they find five hundred human bones at so fucking dark who was killing all these kids. Thanks to a few witnesses. Seen him toss the river for its harmon becomes. You know suspect number one. The police have been working for now. Finally put under surveillance and then in june of nineteen twenty four. They catch him trying to pick up a boy. The boy tells the police. Fritz attempted to molest him so the police now arrest fritz oil custody. The police searches apartments. They soon realize his days as an informant are over. They find the bloody room with piles of clothes similar to what the police found in carl donkeys apartment. Fritz tells him he's a butcher. he's trader saint over the they expect and of course gonna be bloody but then the mother of one of the missing boys tells him that an tells police that he neighbor saw fritz her son's coat the neighbor tells police fritz had given him on the mother of one of the boys saw one of fritz's neighbors wearing her son's cohen that neighbor tells police to fritz had given him that coat and fritz then confesses the gig is up in december of nineteen twenty four. His sensational trial began. It was up until that time. The most highly publicized trial in the history of germany front page headlines day after day for weeks a fritz captivated and infuriated the public with all the horrible shit he had done. He admits everything he made. No attempt to show remorse At one point nonchalantly telling the judge regarding how many boys had killed might have been thirty might have been forty. I really can't remember the exact number later. Denying wrapping one of his victims. He tells one of the parents And he did kill this kid why he did the same. I have my taste after all such an ugly creature as according to his photographs. Your son must have been. I would have never have taken to pour stuff like him. Such a youngster was much beneath my notice. Some evil shit to say of the parents of a child you Likely savagely killed I made no attempt to hide. His monstrous nature to avoid punishment or deny any of his crimes seem strangely proud of his crimes. He seemed to enjoy the attention. His trial he He did beg for the death penalty instead of being. Put an insane asylum. He said i wanna be executed in the marketplace and on my tombstone must be put. This inscription here lies mass murderer harmon and he tells the court if he were to ever be released he would definitely brutalize more children on the final day of his trial. He pleaded the court. You think i enjoy killing people. I was ill ray days after the first time condemning me to death. I'm not mad. It is true. I often get into a state when i do not know what i'm doing but that is not madness. I will not petition for mercy. Nor will i appeal. I just want wanna pass one more. Mary evening in my cell with coffee hard cheese and cigars after which i will curse my father and go to my execution as if it were to a wedding them harm and got his wish he was death. Beheaded be a guillotine on april fifteenth. Nineteen twenty five at the age of forty five in his final moment. He stoically walked up to the guillotine. Never got emotional. Never seem nervous. Ever seemed like he was shaking. He spoke his last words. Calmly saying i repent but i do not fear death and that is why carl donkeys case. Never got that much attention as insane as it was. It wasn't quite as insatiable as the highly publicized. Evil desire fritz harmon. And you'll carl never had a trial never spoke about his crimes. Fritz spoke about at length fritzy trial ended on december nineteenth just two days before crawls death and that takes us to the end of this crazy. Look into a dark time. In germany's history often forgotten because it was sandwiched between two even darker. Times those two world wars. Recap carl danke. The cannibal of some pizza believed it's that he killed at least thirty people. Many think based on the amount of remains found inside his apartment around his apartment. The numbers likely somewhere in the forties may have forgotten to make some Entries that ledger of his. He's probably too busy. No grownups two pound bus sakes that he ate took an apricot He killed from as early as february. Nineteen o o o three all the way december nineteen twenty four he targeted both male and female victims primarily primarily male. Usually journeymen are homeless people. Anyone who didn't think we missed by their families His most common methods of murder were acts or strangulation operate at of his hometown of montebourg silesia. Now zubi tsa poland or don't beat poland in the early nineteen. Hundreds germany produced several cannibals. There were others in addition to curl junkie and fritz harmon and many of them got away with crimes for years. How it was a different time a chaotic time. A hard time for police to catch people. They didn't have modern surveillance technology. You know the evidence gathering techniques they now have You know strange strange time. We'll be looking at it again later year. And we suck on today's fifth takeaway peter cureton duesseldorf vampires so many vampires where we'll swords. Cannibalism measure of one of these fuckers. Did this in your town today. Right lindzen i buy meat from local farmers market. Every summer i bought meat from a family owned stand. I'm told is pork or beef many times you've ever year now. I don't know these people. I trust that they're telling me that the meat is what it is We eat or german restaurant in town a couple times a month beer house. It's our kids on rose favor local restaurant right. It's a place where they make their own sausage. I don't know the fox actually and it's now they say it's p. beef and pork now. It's it's a seasons really. Well i put so much spicy mustard on it. It can be anything. What have ten years now. I find out that the guy the farmer's markets that meets a serial killer cannibal. He's been selling human meat for years to cook the german restaurants. Been doing that for years. Would i throw up and have to steer clear of meat for a while. And i think like what if i knew one of the victims and then realize i had possibly eaten some of them. Holy shit it's so crazy. That odds are hundreds if not thousands of germans experience. That aren't that the eight some of fritz's or carls human meets. What if what if the that human meets a couple of weeks after one of the relatives of missing mind. Fuck what a wild world. How many other stories like this out. There seems like an endless about time. Now for today's top five takeaways time. I number one. Carl danke grew up with various speech delays and learning disabilities. He didn't start speaking until age. Seven had trouble in school. His teachers called him. An idiot complained that he defied authority never listened. He didn't like to socialize with other children. His brothers had to carry him back inside School sometimes because he didn't want to go back to class any of this push him towards becoming a serial killer. I doubt it speidel. He's trump was school probably a relatively normal childhood. I mean not a great childhood but not the worst. His parents don't seem to have abused him and he had no extremely traumatic events happened to him in childhood like most serial killers least none that we know of was it nature or nurture the lead carl to become a serial killer was a desperate times caused by inflation. Was he born bad. A combination of both these factors and others probably combo. I usually tend to think it's a combo number two curl. Dinky hit a licensed from the city. The butcher's guild to sell secondhand clothing leather goods and meet at the local market and sell it door to door. How many people bought either human meat from him. Some fucked up piece of skin clothing. Some skin spenders with pubis still has pubic lice. God over three crow dinky was truly butcher. Human butcher huge every part of his victim's bodies the flesh user skin to make suspenders their hair to make string and shoelaces fat to make soap. His home butcher shop was highly organized with jars full of various human parts. The preference self to eat or turn into goods to sell number. Four vincennes oliver. The man who was meant to be donkeys last victim survived and got him arrested spot number. Thirty one and donkeys dark. Ledger was meant for vincennes but he managed to escape. The attempted murder reported to the police. The police then arrested vincennes sends him to ten days in jail for being homeless Pretty fucked up a crime that time in this is the reason why another survivor never reported donkey. Didn't want to go to jail or to avoid jail time crazy times number five new info another killer. Who was active a few years. After carl but still from inter-war period was peter carey. The duesseldorf vampire will be doing episode him later this year. So many creepy dirtbags in that area of germany or germany. That time peter. Kill for thirteen years part of which overlapped with carl donkey and fritz harman. Peter grew up in a family of abusers and criminals. Man historic is dr. His father raped mother in front of the kids. Also peter sisters. Peter curtin eventually raped his sisters as well. Following his father's example. his life is full of so much darkness. He spent his entire childhood and adolescence. Witnessing sexual abuse later participating in sexual abuse as an abuser he formed the connection early on between sexual violence and pleasure. And it fucking ruined him. He developed intense fantasies about sadism. Killing children arson harming animals. Schalke league peter was able to hide is extremely dark nature. When he wanted to. He was well liked by community even small children. He killed for several years until he settled down got married. It was kind and loving to his wife so much so that you know she didn't believe him. We invest crimes to her. He never sexually abused or hurt his wife many serial killers he was a master compartmentalization. He's able to lead the perfect double life from february. Nineteen thousand nine thousand nine hundred. Thirty terrorized the city of duesseldorf. Earning himself the nickname of the dusseldorf vampire. He stabbed men women and children drink. Their blood mutilated their bodies tossed him into the river. A quick glance at a few sources also mentioned bestiality cannibalism. Cannibalism time in germany. Curtin would be found guilty of murder and beheaded by guillotine. July of nineteen thirty-one suck. Carl dinky has been sucked retirement like a little bit as well and we even learned a little bit about inflation. That was surprising. Strange topics strange episode. Thank god those fuckers are the exception to the rule Thank you the bad magic productions team for all the help making time suck queen bad magic lynn river dr joe paisley script keepers act flannery producing day sophie fact source evans bid elixir. Logan the art warlock running bad magic mercy dot com also run in the social with ms hernandez and thanks to a liberty grace for digging up so many details for today's topic Lot of people have been joining the new colty curious. Private facebook group page thanks to liz hernandez or all is for helping. Run that's Thanks to others. Who have been downloading the free subgroup social pack and the downloads section of our robust store. So cool that there are so many awesome cult security subgroups out there like the cook of the curious over seven hundred members and they're exchanging grilling tips and shit. I love it. Perfect for summerhill not Beefsteak almost ten thousand meets acts on the time suck discord channel and the mod squad. Run things over there What's on the docket for next week. The trail of tears finally as he finally because this topic has almost but not quite one spaces or patriots topic boat probably ten times easily. The topic is almost one but not quite one more than any other topic. Lots of metex waiting on this one. We'll try to make the weight worth it do justice. We mentioned this historical topic several times but have never dedicated a full suck to it. The trail of tears refers to the march the forced relocation that the cherokee people undertook a gun point beginning in may of eighteen thirty eight. Us army troops along with various state militia moved into the tribes homelands forcibly evicted more than sixteen thousand cherokee people from their homelands in tennessee alabama north carolina and georgia cherokee name for the trail of tears literally translates to the trail where they cried. Nearly a quarter perished on the way with the remainder left to seek survival completely foreign land. Imagine that even a worse overall situation what we just went over. In germany there are other tribes. It would suffer the same forced relocation so many more would undergo the same process losing their land. Possession sometimes our lives on the hard journey some tribes did try to resist. The seminole resistance in florida was formidable resulted in a war that began under chief Aussie osceola osceola and lasted into the eighteen forties. Spend millions of dollars fighting. The seminal cherokees. Use legal action to resist of georgia refused to recognize their autonomy and threatened to seize their lands. The cherokees took their case the us court and actually won a favorable decision. But it wouldn't be enough. How did this happen. Why did it happen. What horrors various tribes suffer on the road to relocation and people at the time no it was a bad thing tune in next week for all this and more and now stay tuned in for this week's time sucker updates engine times starting off with a new message regarding an old episode listened to the old jonestown massacre suck helped save thankful meet sack lizard. Boy masterfoods birth name. I'm guessing from a terrible unreal fucking colty job lizard lizard. Boy rights most esteemed lord seconds. I'm fairly recent convert to the curious and still making my way to this insanely massive backlog. Episodes just finished your suck on the jersey devil. But i'm writing a reference to an even older episode the jonestown massacre. While i may not have any information to add. I'd like to say that you're reading of colt. Red flags at the end of the episode. actually forgot. I did that Helped me get out of the worst job i've had my life is working for a family. Member one excommunicated from the rest of the family for reasons. I now understand his interactions with me and the rest of the of his employees. I was last leave. Checkoff off nine of the ten warning signs you shared. He kept me isolated from friends and family paid me just enough to keep them from starving. Far less than someone of my school level and our trade should be paid and intend to control of every aspect of my life far overreaching the boundaries of employee employer relationship saying that he knew is best for me and that no one of my family truly had my best interests at heart and i believed him. I was completely convinced that this was my only future. That is until i can see that. His preaching fear manipulation of my life and caused degradation. Where the ravens of a selfish egomaniac abusing. The last remaining member of his family not only willing to put up with this shit but blind to it. I am now enrolling in college better late than never majoring in a field are not only passionate about where there are numerous career opportunities that may help others in similar situations. Hail fuck and nimrod. I'm eternally grateful unless it's totally blows of my face in which case suck you. This is all your fault seriously. Thank you for the incredible show. Thank you for putting out amazing irreverend content and thank you for creating the base on which the cult of the curious was founded helm rod. Literally mick stephen's. Ps not far enough along to know of shout. Outs are still a free service. If it isn't that's completely understandable. I'm sure you're gonna million week. But i'd like to shout out to the suckers of the forbidden app part of the ship part of the crew Happy liz boy and yeah no shadow to free here Also at the risk of sounding like a huge boomer. What the fuck is the forbidden nap. What is forbidden nap. It sounds fun. I hope not promoting some kind of horrific snuff film app or something though about by. Say that but hope you're having a good time there unless it's enough you know. Snow fell map. Then sop it seriously glad you got out that relative does sound like a shitty leader Inhale number to you sir. Now a cool message about staying connected from sweet sack semantic. Gallery slather rights. Hello master suck. My name is sam. I just wanted to thank you little about me. My husband serves in the united states marine corps and will be coming home soon from an eight and a half months deployment for he left. I was turned onto your podcast and shared with him. Since he was unable to have cell phone usage during this deployment deployment. He was able to download a few of the episodes to listen to before he left. After we left. I listen to your podcast. Every night i went to bed Helped keep my mind occupied from the emptiness of my bed and loneliness worry. I i felt every night is i went to bed man. Your episodes and kept me distracted and educated me so much when my husband has enabled to call to talk. I would often tell him about the latest episode. Listen to we both are eager to learn and be educated. This podcast is let us do that. I appreciate you getting me through this long and difficult deployment as it was much easier than the prior one when i had not been blessed with Being introduced to the suck. I look for every monday and can't wait until my husband is home. We can continue listening to show together. We hope if you ever tour san diego we can go as always helping appraisal jingles. Glory beating your grateful suckers sam sam. I thank your husband for service from for me from us here. The sucked under we appreciate men and women can do whatever needs to be done to let jackasses like me say the crazy. Shit i say in lebanon safe and secure nation I'm glad you both have sorry. I just have to share this. As i said crazy jack has may collide music just literally started to play inside my head. I hear that melody sometimes which is good. I'm glad both have something interesting to talk about. All the weird shit we cover so that you like to learn as much as i do. I love the constant challenge these topics i love the side roads. You know i love this week. Learned about economics which is a challenge for me Just you know when we pick the story about a german german cannibal. Look i i kind of understand a little bit of how about how inflation works now. For the first time life enjoy that husband joy husband being home. Hope the two. You have a fucking blast. Oh have you have a great life is keep out of your life. Praised jingles quick. And interesting kyun on slash antifa now from small. Sucker jason warden. Jason writes dear. master sucker. Insert ridiculous nickname here. I don't beat yourself up so hard. I think he did cunanan. Tv suck amazingly should those Should of subjects have now been putting together. Yeah sure maybe should have included some of a few things that can be proven about tepa. Okay yeah but you said it's hard to prove who was in antifa and what they've done. I feel like our community tries to deal at hard facts where we can exactly Now although antifa isn't a complete scapegoat it seems like they are definitely being used. As one i live in small town in iowa we had a protests and went off without a hitch. Thanks to the amazing organizers and our wonderful police department who were in step with who neil with us leading up to this event. We were threatened with violence and death on social media. She's there were several fake reports of busloads of antiga being dropped off in town to work people up. Decide like to hear an instance of them. Actually being used as a bogeyman from a blm supporting cop loving loyal time sucker. Yes you can be all three nazari one fucking not. Sorry one good ball hair off jangle search glories nuts act for the length is email. Keep up the good work long. This can keep on sucking. I love that message jason. Yeah you sure can't be somebody who supports pm and the police Resist the urge to be pushed into some confining. This is how you need to think about all. This shit's little marketing box. So that various companies can sell you more shit easily and various politicians can just count on you for the votes that i like to all a cart my views and left right the center and can as much they fucking want to and so can all of you appreciate the message jason. That's awesome now for a very cool drug reform. Update from longtime sucker. Jack berry jackie rights. Hello suck masters worshiper. Great god nimrod. I am super torn on this whole drug reform thing for a really quick back story. I was raised by two addicts. Live pretty rough life even struggle with addiction myself. I've always been strong. My stance against drugs until i heard your fucking stands and you made my last surviving brain cells start fighting. I love the idea of regulation and as someone who's working towards a degree in medicine. I love the idea of being able to talk with patient open doors for people to deal with addiction. But here's where. I struggle addiction no matter what type is swarmed by never ending stigma. I haven't told them. My family members as well as myself are weak minded and weak willed because we allow ourselves to be dictated. I have lost friends. Even some family members who have had the audacity to tell me that allowing addicts die is better than treating them. that's a pretty fucking hardcore stance Because it weeds out of the population. This stigma ruins the ability of addicts to be open. Seek help even with healthcare providers and even with legalisation and regulation stigma will remain for longtime has been legal since nineteen thirty three. There's still a massive stigma around people with alcohol addiction. I've dealt with patients that i could smell alcohol on and are obviously having some type of withdrawal who told me they haven't had a drink in years drinking years. Yeah people are afraid to be open because they don't wanna be hated for being sick. I guess i want to know. How can we fight this. How do we fight a stigma that is burned into our society come from a place of fear for addicts because even though death rates will go down they will still be presence considering my vow and lives to protect others lives and wellbeing. I just can't get past the lives lost. Also if you or someone you know is an addict please please. Please get help. You're not irreparable. You're irreplaceable. And you deserve to live a happy healthy life. You have a sickness and you need to get help from people who want to give you a new chance at life reach out. There are always resources. Thank you for everything you do. Suck master thank you for making my head hurt and making me think outside my little echo chamber hill nimrod praised jingles. Jackie be what message jackie. Yeah you're right. There is a stigma with addiction. And i think legalization regulation is a great step in working towards de stigmatization. Because there's also a stigma with felons right criminals. I think removing that stigma from addiction could help remove the overall. And i realized what you're saying about like you know. Alcoholics are still stigma there. But i think it's a step in the right direction. Obviously a lot more needs to be done More government funded. Psa's more celebrities being open about addiction treatment. More people like you said in the kind of messages that you just sent in Thanks for helping like you just did Thank you everyone else from keeping me from falling into an echo chamber brought an echo chamber so glad we have listeners from right middle people with all different kinds of perspectives. it's so important to be continually exposed to different viewpoints. I think Last message today not an email. Just interesting Text messages that came in for my cousin. Matt comments a massive. His mom and some of his other relatives Believed his dad is my dad's brother so probably murder. His relatives likely went to school. With angels landing colour. Dan perez down in iran's texas. I just found that really interesting. His his mom's brothers wife does remember going to school with a young daniel perez. Right that future should head cold letter. Co-leader says he dropped out around eight not surprised I think he's just so we. We get more messages like this. Now who know people who know the subject we talk about people who know the subjects directly of you have messages like that some kind of personal connection to the topic in some way. Send them in either to bojangles at time podcast dot com or you can use the time suck app. It was just updated again now has a cool drop down menu and you can click updates and then it'll send a message straight to me streak to my to my laptop In the Contact time suck message feature. Keep them coming and inhale nimrod times i need there. We all did. Thanks for listening to another bad magic. A production bughouse me. Major your hand on her fondly. No please don't anyone this week or any week. Nobody care suspenders on human skin finger. Ever w donkey keep on second. He's jack you check out but hair to you what that looks like about hol. The doug bottle. That's that's a lot about harris for sure. Okay okay. he did what we did this. Yeah okay cool. Cool different different strokes for folks.

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