9 Episode results for "Frederick Bachmann"

430: Why Giving Your Team More Freedom Leads to Better Results

The Goal Digger Podcast

46:17 min | 6 months ago

430: Why Giving Your Team More Freedom Leads to Better Results

"Hey it's jenna. And i have big news for twenty twenty one. I'm offering monthly. Coaching on grows day all year long. Join me along with a dozen other world. Class personal growth teachers for monthly sessions on how to break bad habits set big balls and create a strategic and achievable plan. Join me on growth day right now for fifty percents off. That's less than one dollar a day. Adt growth date dot com slash jenna. We'll go live every month in twenty twenty one and dig into different topic speech session. How do you break limiting mindsets and achieve extraordinary progress in momentum dealing lost or disconnected from your life's path and purpose confused about how to make the best decisions for twenty twenty one growth day brings together the world's best motivators and personal growth coaches to lead you through live seminars. That will help you with those challenges and so much more. I've never been able to offer coaching like this before. And i'm so grateful. My friend brand number shark created this worm to bring together people like mel robbins and jamie kern lima. Gloria thanh dave collins david bach and others for this incredible opportunity to learn from the best join growth day and get guidance direction and live monday. Coaching from me along with a dozen other world class professional. Growth teachers you can keep growing all year long. Save fifty percent off at growth day dot com slash genetic that's g. r. o. T. h. da y. Dot com slash. Janet i don't care if your work takes you twenty hours or if it takes you forty hours if it's getting done and it's getting done to standard we have then that's all that matters. Hey my name is jennifer and i am obsessed with all things business marketing numbers and helping you to navigate both the messy and the magical seasons of this thing called life. I'm a small town of three hundred dollars. Camera grew a successful photo biz. And now i work from home in remers seven figure online business. I teach you the tried and true secrets to building a career. You adore shy away from the real talk no way money. Hardship growth loss in marketing are all topics. We discussed here. Think of this. Is your one stop shop for happy hour with a gal mixed with business school of pull up a seat. Make sure your cozy and get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn this is the gold digger podcast. Thanks to smart asset for supporting gold digger. Smart asset is an easy convenient way to find financial advisors in your area to receive your free personalized retirement. Planning report go to smart asset dot com slash gold digger. Thanks to birch box for supporting gold digger. Birch box simplifies all your beauty and grooming product. Options join the birch box community today by heading over to birch box dot com slash gold digger and give fifty percent off your first box when you use the promo code gold digger. Well hello there kylie. My boss janika. I'm so excited to talk to you today. And you know it's going to be so fun is that we're talking all about leadership and hiring and i think this conversation is going to be all the more better because we get to have somebody who experienced the process firsthand hand. Yeah i was. Actually chuckling is always putting into kennedy's questions and you know i'm going to ask you questions about your boss style and how you lead and direct our team and then i get to sit here either. I can fact check you. Are you accurately representing yourself. As a boss real time fact checking and i'm really excited to actually spend some of these questions back to you because you know this whole process and i would definitely say even just putting it in terms of our teen culture i think is just very different than a lot of others and so i'm really excited to dig into this before we dive in. I want to start something new. Where you and i we make some sort of segment. I was really thinking about this this morning of like just something funny so i want to know what was the best part of your day so far. Oh oh so. My husband had to run across to the other side of town which is like the most travel we do these days like if we decide is worth three mile radius and he was near my favorite coffee shop. That always has a long line out the door even in these crazy times and so he got me my iced coffee and it might be winter. But it's my favorite iced coffee. And now i'm like the special kind of caffeinated. Where either self destruct or takeover. The world's like up here. Today i think option b. There's there's a choice they're going back to you. What's the best year day. So far this morning we had a little tea party on our kitchen floor and we okay our entire team. This is not sponsored by them. Although we wish it were our entire team has turned into an espresso addicts like we are now brussels on jk and so every day what we actually do is we froth a little milk for coco and so drew had his lot. I had a little lemon water. We frost the milk for coco. And he'll put like a little dollop of his coffee his espresso on top of it and tell her that she's having her own day and so we all sat on the floor of our kitchen and had not party this morning and it was honestly the cutest thing in the world hole. Every time you talk about your family time. I'm convinced more and more of that. Okay yeah no. I could definitely want to now. You know. it's so funny because we have so much fine. And it's i wish the world could see some of the offline stuff. There's a reason why offline but even cocoa has this little baby doll and we've started brushing her teeth in the morning you know so it's just like these little nuance moments. That are like the moments that i'm so president for that i'm like oh i just i love. I love living in them. It's the best. That's so sweet. Cocoa is still one of my favorite humans on this planet. Barely two years old so okay. So are we going to dive on and we are talking all things leadership in hiring. And i think there has never been a better time than this because what my hopes are for this year. Is that things well started to pick up. And this new normal will settle in and people are hopefully going to find themselves busier than ever. That's that's my projection of hope for this year and so when people get busier than ever a lot of times the first thing that you realize that you need help so are you ready to dive in. Of course i am sorry. I'm putting you in the hot seat and you know like i always like to do when we start these jenna and kylie episodes off. I want to take you know rewind the clock hop in our time machine. Did you ever at the beginning envision. A future where you were leading a team of over ten women. No not even for a split second. You know it's funny. I've been actually doing just like mental exercises of of being in that time machine in going back to the beginning lately and one of the things i remembered the other day was the fact that it took me three years to learn how to outsource my editing for photography and it was so funny because that fact alone is interesting but the fact that was left out that makes it. Even more interesting was the fact that i had gone to this talk graffiti workshop. Someone backed out at the last minute they said. Does anyone wanna ticket to this. Talk affi workshop. I didn't even know who the teachers were. But i was like That sounds interesting. I've never been trained in anything. So i should probably do this. And i went to this workshop and the people that were teaching it talked about outsourcing. And i remember thinking to myself good for them not for me. No one could possibly care about my images the way i do. No one could possibly edit the way that i do thinking i was like so special that there is no way i could get help. And it took me a solid two years after that workshop to take that advice that was so warranted and actually take that step and it took me almost getting to burn out to make that decision and so it's been interesting thinking back to those early days where it's like. You're white knuckling everything and there's been so many seasons of business where i found myself in that but i never in my wildest dreams dreamt that i would be a boss and let alone a boss to a team of ten incredible women. Yeah well i can tell first. Hand i love being on your team. So i'm glad i your wildest dreams evolved to fit all right into it. I think that's a common mindset thing that we hear. When people are struggling with the workload they have but they aren't sure if they can reasonably handover what they do to someone else so talk me through some of those mindset challenges that you had to overcome just to make that i hire. Yeah i mean. There's so many mindset blocks i think so much of it. Is that when you start something from the ground up which is usually right out of passion. You know you're just so passionate it's impossible to believe that anyone can care at the level that you care. And i think that's where he will get too far down. The road of doing everything themselves is because they think that no one can care the way they care and so i think that's usually the biggest mindset block. The other one is the financial you know. It's like good for you that you have the funds to be able to do that. But i'm not at that place and what i've really come to realize is that it comes down to two things that we value most in life which are time and money and i think that your going to go through different seasons where time is of utmost importance for me. Early days of motherhood know even to this day like time is my currency. I say that all the time but there were absolutely seasons where money mattered more. Like i was willing to burn the candle on both ends of work around the clock in order to make that money and so the mindset shift of thinking. Gosh i don't have the money to invest in. This is sometimes in some names can be skirted when you start to understand what your time is worth and you start to see that paying out can actually earn you dividends to get back your time to make more and so for example if we of go back to when i first started outsourcing my images i remember i ran the numbers and it was about two hundred dollars per wedding of what i needed to pay and i remember thinking i get back like ten fifteen maybe even twenty hours of time each week if i could just shoot one more session that i could outsource editing on. I could easily make back that money. And then some and save myself all of that time and so it was honestly like i had to like make a bet with myself. That like that time i was saving. I was gonna make it worth something. And that's still how i look at investing in team and outsourcing these days but instead i look back on that priceless time that get back with my family is worse. You know mountains of gold. So that's how i look at it. Yeah i think we're constantly underestimating. What our time is worth until i sit down and run the numbers and realize that. Oh i can get back so much more than i will have to pay out too often. Yes so then talk to me. Once you came to terms with the fact that you need to outsource a little bit. I wanna know about hiring. The i team jennifer your member and what. It was like to be embossed to someone for the first time. Poor caitlin with me through it all i mean. I think we've been together seven or eight years this point in the funny story that has been told on this show time and time again that is worth telling over is that caitlyn reached out to me three different times and each time i said no and she was offering to be kind of a virtual assistant and every single time she reached out. I said no. I'm good. I got it. Thanks so much for thinking of me. But i'm not ready. It really took life knocking me to my knees to really make me realize whoa. I need because when i stop literally everything stops and and that unfortunately happened through our first miscarriage. I hired caitlyn when i was in this very dark season and recognized that like i built something that would stop the second. I stopped and caitlyn. You know caitlyn's she's just the sweetest. She's very maternal. She is incredibly thoughtful. And i met up with her at a coffee shop. She was local to me at the time. I remember she was telling me all these things you can do for me and i was like you know i'm gonna just loosen my grip. Justed tiny bit and and you can take over my inbox and and literally within days of her. Just getting in the inbox and cleaning things up and responding to people in taking care of any new requests while i was kind of stuck in that season of loss i like felt this new level of freedom and i remember like a week into it. I was like. I will hire you for anything i can get and it just took like loosening that grip just a tiny bit to start to like. Open my hands to what was possible and so it was interesting. I think i still didn't see myself as a boss because a lot of our employees now started as contractors. They have their own businesses. And so i almost looked at them as peers. And i think that's a really beautiful relationship to have an as you know we've grown as humans in the business has grown. The relationships have changed. I still really look at my team as people that i really deeply respect and that we're all in this together. I think that that hasn't changed. Yeah there's really. I mean i'll say it doesn't feel like there's a division of power or anything under a team i really do feel respected and like appear and at the same time. I'm learning from you. I think i bring something to the table that you learn from as well and so really lovely situation to be and i'll just say that. Yeah is it's interesting. I was just reading this book. It's called anxious people. It's really good. I finished this morning. Actually by frederick bachmann believe and in the book. There's this one character. He's really softspoken and she talks about how she had built her career. She actually had this really powerful career and she said my goal was that even though i was the boss of all these people that i never wanted them to feel that i have power over them and she said the best compliment. I got when i retired was a few of my team. Members came up to me that day. And said i never realized you were my boss and she said i actually loved that because i wanted them to know that they were just as important as i was and that we were all doing it together and i i loved i highlighted that heart because i just. I love that idea of almost like a humble power in the sense of leadership. I think that's really really cool. I like that a lot. You know. I see a lot of my peers in their work environments in their careers and i want for them what i have here and so maybe they need to send this to their boss. Says a gentle nudge unit. Did you think that it was a challenging process to develop trust with all of us as you brought on each new employee. Was there a moment of like fear that things weren't going to be handled in the way that you thought they should be. You know not really. I think that with each higher. I had established brand standards in what i wanted and expected but i also think i left a lot of opportunity for each person kind of craft the role that they could fill. I remember when you came in my sister had left to go back to school which is so amazing and she kind of handed over her systems. But then we said you can make your own systems like. Here's what we've got but like also here's room till i do what you need to do to make it how you want to do that. And so it's funny because and we'll probably talk about my very odd hiring process. But i lean on intuition so strongly when it comes to team and i think that's probably part of my gifting as a leader. I think that's probably part of the secret sauce. And so i never really felt a lot of challenge. I think the most challenging role and merson. I actually talked about this. A lot was when i finally hired on an integrator which has been literally life changing for me but i think that that position was the most challenging role to establish because it was brand new and it was something we desperately needed but it was having me to step out of the integrator role in into that role of the visionary and really own that in order to let melissa do what she needed to do and i think that was the only one that was really challenging because for almost a decade i had played that part and so that was the most challenging role that i think i hired in filled but marissa's the girl for the job doing a full face of makeup and styling here every day is very low on my priority list right now like if it's between tea. Party with coco and curling my hair. I'd pick cocoa every time. I guess they fit into the beauty casual category. I don't use a ton of products. But when i do i like for them to be tested approved and loved even better if i can find new favorites without having to wander the aisles of beauty store. The best way to really get to know. New products without the pressure is with the expert guidance. From birch box. I teamed up with birch box. And they're offering fifty percent off your first box when you go to birch box dot com slash gold digger and you use the code golddigger every month birch box experts. Select five deluxe size samples tailored for your unique beauty profile. They put together a chichi. That tells you what to use each product for and how to use it and they wrap it all up in a beautifully designed box. You can test drive products at your own pace on your own terms and when you find something you like you can buy the full size on birch box dot com and earn loyalty points by doing it. I love discovering new products in the birch box. Clean beauty collection clean is so important to me. 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Within minutes smart asset will match you with three prescreened fiduciaries each legally obligated to act in your best interest and willing to do a no commitment financial consultation. Smart asset will also send you a free personalized retirement. Planning guide with actionable advice to help you feel confident in your next steps to receive your free personalized retirement planning report. Go to smart asset dot com slash gold digger. Your report will provide personalized insights on your retirement readiness so is it smart asset dot com slash gold digger today the integrator. All when you told us that you are going to be hiring someone as an integrator. I have to say. I'm so grateful that it was marissa that you brow on d. tamer all of us. It was a different way of operating. And so i'm grateful. It's marissa that. I get to hit up on slack every single day. And she's so good at what she does you know so good. Yeah she is so. Let's yeah let's talk about hiring with you. Because i never applied for a job quite in the way i applied for it with you and i've never been hired in the way that i got hired. Let's talk about the hiring and on boarding process on jk in lincoln sponsoring this episode because they showed believers truly so. It's so funny. Because i actually as uncanny and weird as is. I don't want people to tune out. I want them to listen to this. Because i actually share this practice with all of my peers. Who overcomplicate hiring to oblivion. I remember sitting at a table in puerto rico at amash ryan with all the incredible leaders that i'm so thankful to sit around with and they were talking about the way they hire an it was so intense and it was like they get an agency and the agency sources candidates and then the candidates have to submit all these tests and then they come in for eighteen rounds of interviews and like to me. It felt so overwhelming that i was paralyzed. I would've never began and so if the idea of all that fills way too much for you. Then listen up. you're gonna adopt genyk highway. Okay so i swear by lincoln. I know they've sponsored the show. But i swear by it has been just a godsend in hiring and so basically it why i love it so much. Is that when somebody applies. All they're doing is submitting their lincoln profile to you so there's no long answering questions. There's no way that people can really tweak their profile in a way that isn't an honest reflection of the work that they've already done and the best part is then you get all these profiles to go through but you can sort by keywords. So for example when kylie applied she submitted in arlington profile and i found her because i was typing in words like producer audio podcast things like that and so what's so interesting then is when you start to sort through it. It takes hundreds of applications all the way down to like ten twenty and you can keep refining this search so other hires we've made on linked in included a conversion copywriter like that's a very specific role that we wanted to fill and i wanted someone with experience and so basically i narrowed it down and i do something really weird. Which is i narrow it down to about three to five profiles that i'm really interested in and i go to bed. Wake up in the attack. That and i literally remember brushing my teeth. I can remember this moment so clearly. And i asked myself. Who do i still remember. I do this all the time whether it's learning new marketing. Things are taking control of figuring out a new system. I will go to bed. And i'll say what do i still remember. Like what stood out to me. What what resonated with me. And i do that with hiring and i remember going to bed and there's two profiles yours. It was brooklyn who both are now all my team and i remember having this conversation withdrew because i like them both so much and there was totally different and they both bring very different gifts to the table. But i'm wondering if i can find a way to hire them both for different things and i'm so glad i listened to my gut and then basically i got on the phone with both of you. I was laying in a hammock talking to a hammock all day long thing. I was laying in a hammock. Talking to brooklyn i and just talking like we were just talking like so what do you do. What do you like to do what you wanna do. Same with you and it was just very laid back conversation of. Here's what we need. And here's how it's going to go. And then the next day i was like all right. When can you start and you to duluth in. Your mom was pretty sure you were going to get abducted and not really understanding what was going on but for me. So much is intuition and finding people that it doesn't have to be the perfect match like you were coming from a world of radio. But i knew that you had the skills and i also remember talking to you about just your work ethic in that you you were used to working from home and you are autonomous and like all of these things so anyways what was it like for you probably the weirdest experience ever well. I had been living in new york city for nine months without a fulltime job. Because i moved with my husband and we moved for his career and i had gone through really intensive -cation processes and hiring processes and interviews and nothing fell right and then someone told me about the opportunity on your team and i applied through linked in and i was like this is i mean. This is so weird. This is not going to happen. I literally just hit one. Button is does not feel official enough to be obliged and then twenty minutes later you messaged me and then the next day we were on the phone and like you said yeah i flew out to duluth four days later and my mom was like so. She's what on the internet. I mean i really appreciated that fast hiring process because i think i operate with a lot of gut feeling too. It's always looking for that next right opportunity. Not now i'm staying put. Please don't get rid of me. But at that moment i was like okay. I think we operate in a really similar fashion and so felt really good for me too. Yeah it was. I mean it's really funny because our last four hires have all been very similar and they are all still with the company. And you know it's been really beautiful. Because i just think that like when you find people that subscribe to the way that you work and the way that you do things. And they're not freaked out about moving fast and they're ready to dive in. It's just like all right. Let's do this and it's been so cool. It's been really really really cool. I loved it. Thank you so then the on boarding process for your new hires. I had a really unique experience. Because i got to work alongside kate who had my position before me and one of the best things you did for me. I'll just. I mean i'll tell you as someone who is getting hired on having all of the screen recordings and just like systems that kate could share with me and like you said with permission to shift modifying adopter. What made sense for my work. Sil- that was just. It allowed me to get working so much faster because you had all the basic things recorded for me in a library. Yes that brings up such a good point. So if someone's listening to this show and they're like there is no way. I can hire or i don't know i like i don't know where to start or the training is gonna take too long or i don't have time to devote to training someone in right now to day. You're going to be doing tasks or things that you repeat over and over and over again and regardless of if think it's a system it probably is. You can start building up a resource library for when you are able to hire someone and so same thing with when marissa jumped on i was able to say. Here's a bunch of videos. Here's on a log into the blog. Here's our block standards. Here's how we do this. Here's how we publish this. Here's how to get into the website. Here's how to create a new page and it literally takes very little time for you to show those things. But i also think it gives your new hire competence that they don't have to go to you to ask basic questions that they can watch video as much time as it takes for them to understand something without feeling silly without feeling stupid without feeling like they're not picking up something quick enough and just knowing it's there is almost like a little security blanket of like got what i need and i know that i can reference this if i need to and so anyone today like if somebody's listening and they're like i don't even know where to begin get loomed dot com. It's free you can record videos of your screen while you do things and just start building out a reference library for your future team. It's like the best way that you can invest in your future an in the future team members that you'll be welcoming in when your business starts booming my first six months on the team. I referenced. those videos over and over and over again and it's true. It felt so good having to slack you every time. I couldn't figure out a process. That i knew was already documented for me so love it. Yeah that was a big big feature of your on boarding process. That absolutely loved so. I have a question written down. But now i wanna rephrase it. Because we're gonna time that some teams still working remotely have been working remotely for probably close to a year now and that was a new thing for so many people whereas our team working remotely has always been the status quo so i wanted to ask. How can you help other team leaders. Kind of relinquish the desire to micromanage. But i'm really curious about what you like from us on your team. That makes you feel confident. We're getting our worked on on our own time and you don't have to micromanage us so like what is it that our team does that makes you feel really confident in our in our roles. You know it's so funny. Is that a lot of times like kylie every single morning. I reach out to you. Even when i don't need anything like i just wanna say hi and good morning. It's annoying really cool. I think that with tools like slack. I just love. Seeing people's green lights are on knowing world working on something that we believe in. I think that's really really awesome. But i think that this year has provided a deep deep need for flexibility. And we've always had that flexibility the biggest thing that i think that leaders and team members can do to help support one. Another is just communicate. I love giving the team. Fridays off if it works in if they've got their work done and i don't care if your work takes you twenty hours or if it takes you forty hours if it's getting done and it's getting done to the standard we have then that's all that matters. And that's why. It's so interesting. Because i actually prefer having team members on a salary versus hourly because i think that there's just natural ebbs and flows within our work schedule like for instance kylie this week. You and i were grinding head. Were were connected. Were we're talking a little bit later hours. But we're in it together and it feels so good but then we also know like this is going to lighten our load moving forward. And and i sincerely want that for this team. And so i would just say clearly communicating things like even this morning. I started a little bit later. I think by the time i got on. It was probably ten thirty. Am but i took that time with my family and the team knows that. And then i also think something that is so unique about the way that we work in the way that we trust one another is the boundaries that we have in place. I am a huge boundaries boss and in talking to my friends who are working remotely sounds like not bosses are that way and so when i share that like we have to ask for permission to i text one another like texting like off limits unless you have permission that it's a good time to tax one another in things like that. I think that that just speaks to that level of trust in regard for one another and the fact that we want lives outside of work. But would you say for that. Well i love knowing that you want the same style of life in pace of life for that you have for yourself and so i've never felt guilty if i have an appointment in the middle of the day after a run the dog to the groomer or something. I'll go do that. But i know that my work is done. And it's done well. And i can hop back on and usually our team just kind of operates on a quick like slack message into general like for the next two hours but if you need me i'll be back on and i think it's also important for a team full of women. I think with mother hood on the horizon for so many of us. And i mean he has a mom. We just know that sometimes our attention and time has to be pulled to something else during the standard you know work hours and so i just i think it makes me work harder honestly to know that when my works done my time is mine and we have a long loaded week like we had this week. It means that a month from now things are going to be a little bit more easy and breezy and actually gets more out of me. That i think a micromanaged clock in clock out scenario would well and it's so funny you know it actually when you're saying that it made me remember so here's a really quick story but will promise all tied together. Hell when i was a kid. I was a gymnast and i was like a very serious gymnasts for years and years and years and so every single day monday tuesday thursday friday. I would go to the gym from four thirty pm to eight thirty pm. So i basically knew as a student that i needed to get my homework done while i was at school meaning during lunch during break time like i was that student that was super studios to get my work done whether it was on the bus. Or you know when we were allotted that time. Mit teachers would report that to my parents. Like genesis just like gets herself done right away and that gave me the freedom than to be at gymnastics. Which is what i really wanted to be doing kind of look at that like work in life like get your stuff done in the time that you want to get it done and then get on with life like get onto your other passions and so. I think that it's always been ingrained in me like if you're done you're done and i love that and i also love what you said too because i think that whenever we get into like a busier thing like a launch. I'm busy too. It's not just putting it on the team. It's like a are all busy. And then when i am taking a sabbatical or when i'm taking a week off it also lightens the load for the team in that way and i think that it gives us this team energy even though we're spread out all across the country of like we're all in this together like our slack is in and we're all in it together and then we can all kind of log off and i think that's a really beautiful feeling and it's a really ideal work scenario so again if you're in a scenario that's not like this just you know. Shoot off the episode. Dear boss say listen to what does you touched on it quickly. And i would love to close talking about this because like you said you are a big boundaries person and the last year twenty twenty shifted. Think how our team connected on a more deep personal level and learn boundaries between work relationships in personal relationships and now we feel like this support system and family that i think in some scenarios bosses and employees might find it inappropriate but for us. It feels important though you talk about how things have shifted and how we all work together. Yeah i love this. I was actually just thinking about it because cremers we didn't do team meetings. Yeah we were very much working in silos which i liked that whole notion of like you own like every person on my team owns a process and owns a piece of the brands like it is theirs and theirs alone. But i think that with getting marissa on the team and starting to say like okay. Let's do a weekly team meeting. And when we scheduled our team retreats. I think those are super transformative for us as well. It's really brought together. This like level of connection. And it's so funny because even when we did our team meeting this week. There really wasn't anything we needed to do. But we are. You know sort of like. Do you think we need the meeting today. And like no. But let's do it because especially in a year where we're also kind of lonely and disconnected coming together and i also think that we are really recognizing that like we're not just working together. We're doing the life together so we've walked through some really hard things as a team. Losing someone's husband and you know hoping for babies and expecting one of our team members is expecting soon. You know all of these things where it's like we recognize like life is also unfolding as the work is in what a missed opportunity. It would be if we just ignored that fact and kylie you and i are so much alike where we're just like straight to business working it and working like gallo. Good morning how are you today. Let's get into it. But i also want to commend tico. Because tico hiring her in as a corporate trainer and walking through trainings together. As a team. I also think brought along these more multidimensional relationships and a deeper understanding for how we operate. And what our goals are in what that looks like. And so it's been really beautiful. And i would highly highly recommend if your company or your team or you're the boss and you guys are on slack create opportunities for people to share about their lives. We have a channel which might get bleeped out when i say it but be stuff in prayers and that might seem totally unprofessional but that actually is the channel. That glows a lot in our slack. Meaning we've got stuff going on in our lives and when we invite people in it allows us to not go through it alone. And i think that that channel alone has really welcomed in the opportunity to say i need help or i need prayer or i'm walking through this thing and i just don't wanna carry it by myself and so create opportunities for people to share about their lives and i think you on our team calls a lot of times. It's like i tell me the best thing about your weaker or what's going on. Or how are you feeling today and our team call is so fun the other day because you know. Someone's moving into a new house in someone selling an old house and like you have your podcast. Which will talk about in a minute and brooklyn has a youtube channel. Like just celebrating together. You know yeah. It's been so special for me to get to connect with everyone on the team on a more deeply personal level being removed and being virtual not being with each other i began many workplace scenarios. I mean you do spend the most time of your day talking to working with around your coworkers and your leadership and so it's only natural that life wants to molden with what you're doing at work so i've loved this year and like you said. Yeah maybe that slack channel might seem unprofessional to someone else. But it's been so important. I really for me. This was all of us have walked through. All of us have had some sort of struggle in two thousand and twenty and so being able to connect that way and just also knowing where someone standing during their work day because that's going to impact how they're showing up and we can give them grace if they need it so i've loved it one thing. I was thinking about the other day. Because i love to just like explore team cultures and something that i was thinking about that. I really really love. Is that almost. Every single person on our team has a side hustle or passion project or something that they are doing and creating for themselves. And i think it's so cool because like on our team you know. People have their own blogs businesses. Have their own podcast. They have their own youtube channels. They're creating and i think that a lot of times bosses feel like it's almost like a scarcity mindset it really is a scarcity mindset. Not almost where they don't want their employees spread too thin. Can we talk about that for a second. Because i remember even when i hired you you are still wanting to do some of the other work that you're doing and you ask like. Is this okay because other jobs were saying. It was like a conflict of interest and i remember being like wait. No i want people that are passionate and like i want people that as long as you can balance it go for it. Yeah i learned to ask that question as i said like. I was unemployed in new york city. I was taking any interview that someone would give to me. And i learned to ask after a particularly i opening interview. If it was okay that i was creative or freelancing outside of my daily job because one of the wanted me to shut down everything i had built and that just felt so adjust heart-wrenching that i would have to give up something that i was passionate about and talking to some friends who you know unfortunately were laid off during the pandemic and then were interviewing for new roles and they too were asked to give up these things that they had developed in a time where they had to kind of create their own income and i always kind of go back to your philosophy like you love helping women build independent you know why would shut down your own team members who have something. They're passionate about in. That could turn into another stream of revenue for them or that could continue to build on the side. So i can't understand why a boss would want to shut that out of someone well and it's so funny because it's like i'm multi passionate and i'm hiring multi passionate humans. Can you before we sign off. Can you tell us about your podcast. You're going to let me plug my podcast. One hundred percent. Here's my fear. Don't let it get so big that she leaves me. That's the thing okay so everyone listened but kylie you're stuck with me. I'm not going anywhere. You give me credibility so yeah. I have my own podcast. It's called dark down east. It is in maine and new england. True crime podcast so very left field from what goal. You're covers but i moved back to my home state of maine during the pandemic and being a true crime fan. I was poking around on the internet. And i'm like no one's covering the cases from the state that i love so much in these stories matter to me so i started this show and it somehow. I'm truly surprised by the success that it saw right off. It's you know we debuted close to the top one hundred on apple podcasts. And i'm inching up there and it's been so special to be able to talk about my show with you and not feel like you're scared of me having my own show exciting. Our team is celebrating every single day. It's just so cool It's it's been so much fun and it's definitely an outlet for me. You know. I love putting together a lineup of interviews for you to talk to all these amazing baseness women and to encourage other women to pursue these passions and then on my weekends and on my nights. I'm digging into the creepy stuff that happens in my home state and i sleep fine. Remember when you started. I was like okay kylie. Can we make sure that you're like anonymous and that you're safe and not like these murderers aren't gonna come. That was. I was like the mother concern of like that. So where can everybody find you. You and tune in to your show. You can listen to dark down east wherever you listen to the gold digger podcast and a dark down. East dot com kylie. Thanks so much for this fun little chitchat. Yes this felt really good and i will say you passed. You told the truth about all of your leadership and hiring practices so very well you get to keep your job. I feel like i was hooked up to a lie detector tests and it was blazing green like they did on the bachelorette with asia. So i like a winner. you nailed it. I'm over here giving you a virtual high five because you just finished another episode of the gold digger podcast tobacco by way too fast for anyone else. You want more head over to golddigger podcasts. Dot com for show notes and all the discount codes from today's sponsors. And if you're looking for a new crew of movers and shakers like you bounce ideas and ask questions be sure to join my exclusive community for gold diggers on facebook the links waiting for you at golddigger podcast dot com.

caitlyn kylie jenna marissa mel robbins jamie kern lima Gloria thanh dave collins T. h frederick bachmann jennifer david bach merson lincoln amash ryan
The 5 Best New Shows Our TV Critic Watched in February 2021

TIME's Top Stories

09:31 min | 5 months ago

The 5 Best New Shows Our TV Critic Watched in February 2021

"The five best new shows. Our tv critic watched in february twenty twenty one by judy. Berman february may be the shortest month of the year. But the twenty twenty one addition certainly has dragged on. Hasn't it maybe it's the cold and snow blanketing so much more of the country than usual. Or maybe it's our collective in With slow vaccine rollout as we approach the once unthinkable milestone of a year under varying degrees of lockdown. Whatever the reason television can make the days pass a bit faster and thankfully this month has brought a whole lot of quality programming. The rise of foreign tv remains a blessing. among february's most worthwhile new shows are a literary adaptation set in nineteenth century new zealand a distinctive swedish crime drama a delightful baking series from britain and a must see bbc drama that mixes the ecstasy of youthful discovery with the devastation of the early aids crisis. The final title. A quintessentially american documentary series that captures our country at its best and worst through the lens of the black church for more suggestions. Peruse my lists of last month's highlights and the top ten shows of twenty twenty on times his website baritone hbo most crime dramas opened with the crime itself. Front loading the violent act that will shape the plot and developing the characters. Only to the extent that it's exploration requires bear town a swedish. Hbo europe import based on the novel. By frederick bachmann avoids that it writer unders. Vitamin interrogation spends almost two of the mini series. Five episodes spinning a web of conflicts within the upon struggling community recruited to salvage a hockey program that is crucial to the places identity and survival retired. Nhl player and bear town native. Peter ulf stenberg moves his family across an ocean to take the coaching job only to discover that the star of his new high school team kevin oliver defect car is the son of a former classmate. Tobias zilliacus who has spent decades nursing a grudge against peter complicating matters are the towns hermetic. Insularity the tents dynamic along the teenage teammates and magnetic attraction that develops between kevin and peter's daughter. Maya miriam ingrid by the time. Bear town drops it's bombshell. This scene feels both inevitable and crushing but the show distinguishes itself much earlier as a patient portrait of a stiflingly small place with a long memory an investigation into the perils of masculinity an icy scandinavian. Take on friday night lights. And maybe even a preemptive rejoinder to the upcoming disney plus mighty ducks series who saccharin content is likely to be through the roof. The black church. Pbs the harvard professor and public intellectual. Henry louis gates junior serves as executive producer writer and host of the black church which traces black spiritual life all the way back to africa through slavery and civil rights into the present early in the four hour. Miniseries reverend al sharpton calls the church. The epicenter of black life and gates's deeply researched retrospective goes along way towards supporting that thesis. He explores the central role. The church played emancipation black politics from reconstruction to dr king to barack obama and a cross pollinating american musical tradition. That took root in sunday. Church services if you don't know about sister. Rosetta tharp one of the first greet rock and roll guitarists. You'll find out enough here to send you down a youtube rabbit hole. Though gates is a christian. He acknowledges that islam has also played a central role in the african american community. And he's not afraid to be critical in segments that lament how socially conservative congregations have alienated. Lgbtq community members and how religious infrastructures created by black men have barred black women from positions of power despite its traditional style. The series distinguishes itself through gates's candied interactions with interviewees who range from scholars and theologians to celebrities like oprah and john legend. He harmonizes with gospel. Singers calls back to preachers and delves into his own faith. The black church is the kind of documentary. That only someone with a personal connection to the material could make read the full essay on the black church and two other new docu series. That dare to tell the truth about black history. Also at times as website an excerpt from a book by gates that serves as a companion to the show. It's a sin hbo. max. It's one of the oldest stories of modern times after growing up in a place that makes them feel like a freak or an abomination or a space alien. A young person lights out for the big city in search of their people. But what happens if you arrive. Find precisely the community. You've spent years longing for start living the liberated life of your dreams and then it's over just as quickly as it started. The party becomes a nightmare. Everything fun is suddenly dangerous. Your chosen family starts dying. It's almost as though the universe is doubling down on the eighteen years worth of shame. You absorbed on your way to freedom that is the predicament facing the group of friends at the center of hbo maxes deeply humane richly observed frequently. Funny and fully devastating. It's a sin. The miniseries which broke viewership records when it aired in the uk spans ten years at the outset of the aids crisis in london creator russell t davies the prolific tv producer who previously chronicled aspects of british gay life in cucumber a very english scandal and the groundbreaking queer as folk wrote all five episodes anchoring his scripts in real history that has haunted him for decades and deploying rage empathy and humor in just the right places. Times website also has a full review the luminaries stores and enchanting enthralling miniseries based on eleanor captains booker. Winning twenty thirteen novel. The luminaries is set amid the new zealand. Gold rush and opens with two very different portraits of its protagonist. A young woman named anna wetherell. The first time she appears on screen it's sixty six and anna a guile lists but bright eve heusen from the nick is a mud caked spectral figure darting through the night in a tattered dress and coat. A flash of dust briefly illuminates the forest when her him catches on a log nearby. A gun fires a man falls to the ground and she keeps running until she collapses at the door to a cabin quickly discovered by on horseback anna known locally as a prostitute and an opium addict is imprisoned on charges of vagrancy public intoxication and attempted suicide. You can read the full review at times. His website nadia bakes net flicks. The great british banking show has over the course of eleven seasons introduced dozens of lovable and talented. Uk home cooks to fans around the world. It's brightest star to date is twenty fifteen champion. Nadia hussain a british bank. She mother of three who's culinary skills and infectious enthusiasm have earned her thriving career as an author and tv personality. That television work is finally starting to trickle across the atlantic via baking shows stateside platform net flicks last year. We got the enjoyable nutty as time to eat. But this past month broad and even more delightful sequel nadia bakes in each of eight themed half hours. Savory bakes baking on a budget et cetera. The bully and hussein keeps up a brisk pace zooming through a handful of delicious looking creations with time leftover to profile relevant professional baker. If you don't find at least one recipe per episode that you absolutely need to make then baking will probably never be your thing but especially in these isolated times. The pleasure of hussein's upbeat company might be an even bigger draw.

frederick bachmann gates Peter ulf stenberg kevin oliver Tobias zilliacus Maya miriam ingrid hbo dr king Rosetta tharp Berman peter aids judy Henry louis gates new zealand hbo black church al sharpton bbc Nhl
Ep 96: Book Club's Best Books of the Year 2020

10 Things To Tell You

1:48:33 hr | 7 months ago

Ep 96: Book Club's Best Books of the Year 2020

"The can you hear me low there. You are can hear you now. A cheers cheers waiting on yasmeen. I'm so excited to do this. I don't know what i'm gonna say. I'm not even sure what books i'm going to talk about. It's going to be a surprise. I i don't know that. I have a top five this year. It was a lot harder this year. I thought more about that. Why i think because i'm in a weird mood and less decisive also struggled a lot more to find things that i like this year. It really quarantine brain. Hi how are you guys. I like how laura fixes were here before. Recording a podcast. Love me for who. i am. things. I'm laura tremaine. And i have ten things to tell you and you have ten things to tell. This show is about connection with each other and with ourselves and the hope. Is that the things we talk about. Here we'll be fuel for better conversations and personal awareness. This is an interactive podcast. Each episode has a prompt and a topic. That i want you to take to journal text to your best friend or answer on social media using the hashtag ten things to tell you. This is a show about digging deeper and sharing our staff. I'll go first. It's the best books of the year episode. I ladies welcome. Welcome back to ten things to tell. You is literally one of my favorite conversations of the whole entire year. And i can't believe that we get to have it together except that i'm super sad that we're not in person. It's so sad to me that we are doing this over zoom. That's what twenty twenty is so here we are. We're going to do it. We're going to have a great conversation about the best that we read this year. So everyone this is my real life book club. We meet in real life. They're currently only three of us. We're fine with it. A club is a club. And i want us to just share who we are. Yes mean please introduce yourself first to the listeners. I the done member of the real life book club for many years. Now i am a mom. I'm a reader. I work in hollywood agenda But i am super happy to be here. It's really what of my favorite things to do at the end of the year though. Yeah it's just that marks the time for us doesn't it. i love it so much. Okay stephanie tell the listeners who you are. I'm stephanie. smith. I also work in hollywood. I work at a production company. Where i spend most of my day reading which is great for me and i'm also so glad to be back. I'm so glad we managed to make book club. Continue on zoom because it was one of the things i missed most when we first went into quarantine. Okay well. i'm so glad you bring that up. Because i want us to just sorta start there for a minute. I've been asking every guest on the show this year about what they're reading life has been in twenty twenty because of the pandemic because our attention spans are different. I couldn't tell this year if you know publishing was affecting how i was feeling about the books of the year or if it was my own brain or mood and so i would just love to hear from you. Both what your general reading life was like. Did you turn to old favorites. Did you turn to like easy. Reads what did you do. And how was your reading in twenty twenty years ago i you know i started the year really strong. All of these reading goals and then and quarantine happened. My mind sort of just went crazy so i did a lot of reading things like my comfort. Read it like a good mystery novel. So i think as a blue through leg all of agatha christie against you know like i did a lot of audible knox because i would go on walks on. Get out of the house and so did way more audible books than i normally do. That was a big change once march I started doing a lot of like the thriller. The mystery is just to make sure that wasn't losing my brain. 'cause it was hard to pay attention to new book so had to read all books to like get back into reading so i think probably by may i was back to reading Like new books. But i a lot of nonfiction. That's just where west this year was like really wanting to read nonfiction and to really delve in a lot of great books that came out this year and the end of last year. But i think release shen what's happening right now and i was happy to be in that into reading that each share other people's thoughts on that but i also just started stuck with nonfiction. I just read a lot of memoirs. And i think once i got into like oh quarantine is gonna last for a long time. I was like all right. I'm just doing this now. Like i'm just like i wanna be in reality and i read memoirs that were read what other people are saying just like experience like said of using books as escapism. Which i was joining the beginning. I wanted to just be really in the though i agree with you on the nonfiction i feel like my brain was just working on a certain track and it went to a lot of nonfiction. I was listening to a lot. More news like in podcasts. And even what. I was reading online and that kind of thing and so i couldn't concentrate on stories on traditional stories novels in the spring at all and so i also was reading a lot of nonfiction. It was like the only way. I could get through a book. Otherwise i was just like i don't know who the characters are. I'm really having a hard time concentrating on this. And then i would say about midsummer. Her i even doubt. Maybe because it had been a few months we all sort of kind of were getting a little bit used to unfortunately what the world has common quarantine in that kind of thing. I would say about midsummer. I picked up a few different books. I read some novels. That like made me realize okay. I can concentrate on this again and then probably from july until now december. I've read it my normal pace in my normal mix of novels and nonfiction but definitely there is a period in there from march to july. Where i just was not my habits. Were all over the place. My concentration was all over the place. It was so hard to concentrate. And i don't have a comfort read like i don't go to romance or thrillers or i don't have like a genre or an author or anything where mike i'm really stressed out. I'm gonna read xyz. Like i don't really have that in my life. I have favorite authors and favorite. Sean rest. But like i don't have a comfort place in reading. Obviously we've never been in a pandemic before. So i've never thought like what would i turn to if the world changed while now we know is a mess. I we heard anything. Just a crazy mess. So that's my no rhyme or reason. Answer for me stephanie. What was your reading lifelike. So funny. Because i have the exact opposite of you. I have lots of comfort reading. I read almost zero nonfiction this year. I was spending so much time reading the news multiple newspapers every day. I check out and i was just like my brain felt really overloaded. So what i like. When i have. That is like a good juicy novel. I will say that Especially at the beginning. Although it kind of has come in waves i feel like because i spent so much time reading for my job. I noticed i was spending more hours reading and getting a lot less done. I read a lot slower this year than i usually do. I would find myself reading a chapter in realizing. I couldn't remember what had happened and going back and constantly every time i was reading slightly backtracking in novels which was really unusual for me so i read mostly novels this year but i kind of had that same issue where when i was making this list for the end of the year it was a little bit harder than it normally is because i feel like i usually have so many standouts that i love that. I have to kind of jockey for for position. You know kind of a top five and this year. It wasn't so much. And i couldn't figure out if it was you know the books i wasn't connecting with. If it was the publishing eric it was my mood. Which i think is probably a little bit more likely but i did a little bit of that and i did. I did a fair amount of cover reading for my own personal pleasure. When i wasn't reading for work so i would reread books. Had in my house miss going to bookstores or just see what i had on my shelf. I reread some curtis in feld. Who i love. Reread some of her novels every red. Prep getting of the year. I reread persuasion this year. Which is truly one of my very very favorite books of all time. And i read some mysteries thrillers. I will own up to what i read. A lot of really really trashy chick lit like not romance novels. Which really don't do it for me. But i mean like true chocolate. I reread bridget. Jones this is the degree of my like vision of chocolate like it needs true true airport rates. They bring me comfort. They last all of about an hour. And a half. But i i love them so i read a number of those. I'm not a huge reader. I don't know that that would be comforting to me or not. I think it's interesting. When i reread because when i am reading it's for a really particular purpose i don't do it for comfort so they're interesting but i don't can. I don't turn to that. And i feel you on was a little bit harder to choose my best books of the year. I said this before. We started recording. But i have some real standouts as in. I know my my top books of the year. It wasn't that it was hard to choose of those. I read which were the top. But i guess i don't feel the level of enthusiasm for those top books that i have in previous years. I'm like so excited to talk about them. And love them and obsessed with them. I feel like a little even the great books. They're great and we're gonna talk about them. But it's a bummer. That we're coming to the end of this year and all emotions are muted. A little bit like. It's hard to just feel like this thing that i love reading and books even that has been affected to be like. Yeah it was fine like this is a solid showing instead of being like. Oh my gosh. I love this book. You know the the attitude around. It is just so different because of what we experienced this year. And that's just another thing that twenty twenty took from us a little bit is just like the joys like we have joy in reading usually or whatever and now. We're like yeah. I can objectively see that. This was a solid book. But i'm not like if you sit about it which isn't just say i'm gonna love the books. We're gonna talk about today but it definitely just everything feels different. Enthusiasm has definitely kind of been dampened in every kind of segment of my life. And i definitely also notice it in my rating yom okay. So let's before. We share our favorite bugs. Which were each going to go around in share our favorite reads of the year. But i i wanna to talk a little bit about our december book club. Read like here. We are altogether. This recording is taking place of what our traditional meeting would be. And i guess i should say for other people who are listening. That are part of book clubs. I don't know how other clubs across the nation handled the pandemic or quarantine or whatever. I'm sure it's you know varies from region to region but los angeles went into pretty strict lockdown. And we didn't meet for months the longest that we've ever gone in several years of being in variations of a book club together. This is definitely the longest that we have gone without having a meeting. I don't know why we were like a little bit hesitant to do a zoom meeting. Maybe 'cause we all work in our all zooming in our regular life. I didn't. I didn't want that to be book club. And then when we finally did we were like all right. Well let's just meet. We don't have to have a book. let's just meet and talk about. We've read over the last few months. Or whatever. And i was so glad we did and i was like. Why didn't we do this earlier. Town i think the foul for me at least like i was zooming all day and it just felt like oh. This is one more thing i have to do. And like i. If i was gonna read words that wanted to read but also i don't have this happened to you that like i just sort of got really like insular. I was just like not really talking to a lot of people outside of family unit. I mean at the time for most of the year. I've had my parents here with me and it just felt like a lot of people like i didn't really i mean a lot of my friendships. I was like oh. I'll text you like. I can't engage in a conversation because i'm engaging conversations all day and then there's no space right so lichner media with like i can't even make space to be with the cloud or with my friends because all my available space is taken by online school and then might peter and satellite just never having alone time so what normally it like a retreat where we are like at each other's homes and like we never have mclovin like our husbands and other people around like it's always just us and i felt like we couldn't get that because everybody was around all the time and so i like i don't it didn't feel like it was gonna be the same thing book club for for seventy two. We talk about this ally that like. It's just this sanctuary of like inaction and there's so much that like we share together on a personal level because we see each other every month that doesn't always get shared other places or At emotions and things that we don't share with other people so i just felt like it wasn't going to be that because it didn't feel as like sacred as has been in the past. I mean we're listening like our book clubs like we our families out of our houses. We have to choose three hour time. That is just us talking at a what. We've read how we experience things just like. What's happening in the larger world food and it's just such a leg sacred than all states. That only belongs to us. And i really felt like oh. I don't wanna have book cloud if it's not gonna be like i didn't wanna do it with like my husband became the office and like my daughter knocking on the door and my parents being loud like it didn't feel like it. Bill right yep micon. Hesitancy earlier in the year was about my kind of issues with what i was reading which is i was feeling like. I was so overwhelmed with the reading. I had to do for work. And i felt like there was constantly a pile. You know that. Never gets short. And i was having a hard time with the notion that i was going to have to add another book every month on top of a pilot. I didn't feel like i was making any headway through. But then you know when we had our last meeting i forgot an it was such a wonderful reminder. What a sense of kind of equilibrium. Because called gives me. It has been such a constant in our lives for the last for me. It's been five years and meeting once a month with the exceptions of summer. But i always leave feeling so refreshed and like we. It's emotionally cathartic but it's also just fun to see you all and talk about the things. We love our books. And all that and i've realized after we had that i was in such a great mood and i was like i've missed this so much and i couldn't believe i was like why didn't i you know why didn't we get it together and we just weren't in the place for it earlier in the year but i like feel so much better than other three started. It's a testament to me that we knew sort of instinctively that this was a thing we could put on pause because we needed to and that would we would be able to pick it back up when we were able. I don't know about you but for me. A lot of friendships in my life have had some real ups and downs this year. Like i have friends who. It's really important to them. They really need a lot of connection during this time. And so that takes a lot more effort than in regular life where you have to really foster that friendship because they need it or you need it or whatever and i've other friendships that have kind of fallen by the wayside because of this year and we weren't on the same page and there's been sort of a lot of navigation in the relationships in my life and i did not feel about about book club like i missed it but actually was like we can take a few minutes off. We're all going to be fine. We're going to circle back to this. When it's time now i think we we were hopeful that we wouldn't have to circle back on zoom. I think we were like wait until we can get together then. Of course all of this went on longer than we were expecting and so then we finally did zoom meeting. After like six months. It took us a long time but never for one minute. Did i think this is gonna be awkward. Are these ladies going to be mad. That we haven't touched base. Or whatever. And how i feel like we have this foundation of like. No we're good. We're all independently good and when we get back together. We're going to be good like how i just felt like. It was such a testament of trust that we put it on pause. We picked back up. We're all doing the best we can. Everybody assumes good intentions of one another. There's no like weird. Like i didn't hear from you for three months right. So the best books episode is brought to you by abby. Ebi is an underwear membership service. Founded by and entrepreneurs fee for gara at ebi. underwear is seen as a major source of power. Everyone wears on these. So why not. Put the absolute best on your body. Every sundays are seamless with a cotton lining and the sizes range from extra small to four x. There's also a no slip crap so you won't have any of those dreaded visible panty lines ever these panties form to your body. Feels like you have a second skin. So why a membership ebi service keeps your underwear drawer. Fresh and new while empowering other women. That's right ten percent of every purchase helps fund microfinance loans for women around the world underwear is essential and so is empowering other women undies and empowerment. Make the ultimate pair. When you choose abbey you choose to where the best and help women out of poverty and into business go to join abby dot com and enter promo code things twenty. Get twenty percents off your first order. That's join abby y dot com and enter code things twenty two zero for twenty percent off your first order and now back to the show. Okay so let's just talk a little bit about. We are going to share our best books of the year. But because we're all together. I want to do sort of a mini version of what we would do. If the microphone wasn't on to share the book that we read for december so we did meet over zoom non recorded a month or so ago and we chose that our next book together that we would read would be a burning by mega jim. Dr and that's what we read so. Let's just discuss this quickly. If anyone has thoughts on this one let just kick it off. Does this land on anyone's favorites a by the end of the year. Now i for me. I didn't think it was bad but it wasn't like a mice stayed rich. I you know there were parts of it. That i really got emotional like i was. I will say this. I was emotionally invested in the characters. But i wasn't like blown away by the story a blown away by the writing. They did want to know what was going to happen with. The characters and i was invested. This book is right up our general alley in that. It is four. And there's a lot of buzz around it. It was a national book award longlist. This feels like it would be one that we would generally sign on for so. I'm actually kind of finding an interesting that we're all like what did you think. Stephanie about a burning. I mean i had a little bit of a hard time getting into it in the beginning harshly because the since the book is from the perspective of three different characters you are alternating between the three of them and one of the characters is written in a different tense. I'm going to absolutely love my high school english. I think it's the present progressive. I could be wrong. Who does that in particular was a little bit hard for me to get into and so i felt like a wasn't as immersed in a book for probably the first quarter of it and then i yeah. It took me a while. i don't again. It's one of those things. Where like if it was just my mood. I wasn't in the right vibe for it. And i did i was like i mean i absolutely eventually i got very invested in the characters and wanted to know what was going to happen but it didn't feel like i was on the edge of my seat. I enjoyed it. I was immersed in it. But i wasn't really blown away and i was expecting to be. I was expecting to be too. I've read several of the read with jenna book. So there's so many popular national book clubs. That are huge. Right now. oprah reese. I mean you know there's all these and read with jenna jenna. Bush hager is one of the more popular national book clubs. That people are reading along with an i. Personally of all the national book clubs have really connected to her picks more than some of the others and i've read quite a few of the others and so i had high hopes for this book was also short. I also realized and that this is just a taste thing or a timing thing. But that i had not read an overtly political novel in a long time obviously a lot of novels that we read have some underlying political staff or whatever but this was overtly political novel taking place in india and i haven't read a book that is making such heavy handed point mike s in a while. Sometimes i don't mind those. Sometimes the they feel heavy handed which is what they are. I think it was the most interesting part of a burning for me was of the three characters that they're following misses. The story takes place after a terrorist attack in a train where a lot of people died and then there following the accused terrorist. They're following a teacher. They're following a. I'm not sure. If this is the correct term for india in america we might call this a transgender character. Who wants to be an actor and all of these people play into sort of bigger narrative. That's happening with this terrorist attack or the most interesting thread of the story that i found was was the teacher who is slowly being indoctrinated as a political pawn and he doesn't necessarily know it he sort of does figure it out as he goes. I don't feel like this is a spoiler to say this. I've had this was very interesting to see. Oh this is how this happens. Like how people are used by the government. How people are radicalized without them even necessarily knowing that they're being manipulated in this way they think it's their own choice or their own you know they're being led by the nose and they don't necessarily even understand that and i about was very relevance what's happening worldwide but even in america right now and so even though i was also invested in the other characters. That was the one that felt the most interesting to me of like. Oh this is. Is this how this happens. There's flattery involved in there's like trying to elevate your own station in life and sort of a lot of those type of themes that maybe we see in. Hamilton was like so popular. You know it to me. It felt that storyline felt like the most culmination of some other things that i've been reading and thinking about but in general i agree with you guys that i wasn't blown away by this book. I thought it was. I could tell that it was good. Writing sort of objectively. I could talbot was embiid in trying to do but it just didn't like hit me. You know it just didn't not my socks off and i kinda thought it was going to when you have expectations. They're always needing to be adjusted right. But i think it's a new thing to it was a lot of the lot like at the end of the year. I wonder if we had read it earlier. If would have had a different reaction. But i hated her character so much like it. Just irritated me. Because he was just show opportunistic. And so i. I didn't i didn't feel like he was not understanding what was happening. I thought that he was like positioning himself to be like. Oh this is what i want to have happen. And he attended the crap out of me. Yeah it also felt to me. I mean it's a book. Wear like to me one of the messages you have these different groups of people who are marginalized and the kind of system that is in place forces them to compete against each other and turn different marginalized groups against one another because the system is so in many ways so broken and while. I thought that message itself is is incredibly relevant. It's also a book. Where if you wanna feel better about the world. This is not the books to read. It's so hard to to read into. Also feel like yeah. This does feel like what would happen on a horrifying you know what saying that is typically when reread books like this similar to this whatever vein from whatever country i think some version of out. Isn't this interesting that this is happening in this other country i definitely feel an american mass about is self when i read books like this and because of the time we're living in when i read this i was like this is a universal story. Yes and i never would have thought that before. Truly like i'm definitely feel like i wear my americanise all the time when i read foreign novels and so it was actually fascinating to read foreign novel and not feel that it was other in the alike. Yeah this is how all of this happens. That was like a real threshold across for me that well and i think gb could link the characters makes choices to achieve a level of professional success and fame and these things that people want about heart was very universal of like. Oh i'm gonna. I'm gonna make a decision that might ruin other people but it's going to advance my career in my creative career Achieve a level of fade. Even though i done something that that thing was very universal but that's interesting that's interesting that that this was the book. Is that for you but i think i think we all agree. It was good. It just wasn't like antastic which is rare. We'd never usually have that. Where all night usually someone. Who's like this amazing or this book is awful. There's always at least one out. Liar will talk about books. We did find to be fantastic. We each have a few that we're gonna share. I'm gonna be you know a little bit shorter with my words for most of what. I'm going to share because i have talked about these throughout the year on the episodes of this show in so backed. I'm going to start with a book that i haven't talked about yet and was a total surprise. I'm gonna go first because that's the theme of this show. What the record. Reflect that in normal book club life. I do not always command the go first position by here. We are okay so the book i wanted to share is ending up in my top five of the year and it was absolutely not. I did not start this book with any kind of expectation which is probably why it ended up rising to the occasion. And that is the invisible life of abbey larue by schwab. Have you guys had this one So this was a book of the month club pick. I bought it elsewhere. But i say that to say it was like a big popular novel that i saw from of people and some people that i trust very much shared that they really loved it. My dear friends were sharing that they loved it and i trust their taste but still just looking at this from the outside kind of a not time travel but like sort of fantasy deal with the davel kind of story. I basically started this book as a pallet cleanser. I read two books back to back. The i did not love and was frustrated by those two novels. Were the southern book clubs guide to slaying vampires and then right after that. I read anxious. People by frederick bachmann and both of those books were all over instagram in very popular and i didn't connect to either of those books in fact i was frustrated by both of those novels. So when i started the invisible life of addie larue. It was more just like this. Is sort of a pallet cleanser. I've heard it's a good kind of bestseller quickey read. I'm just gonna read this. I was so surprised by this book. Now i do have a deal with the devil. Meet you at the crossroads. I'll trade my soul for talent. I love those stories like like robert. Johnson steve is that his name robert johnson for the gift of song. So robert johnson. Stephen king maybe. I don't know like i love these stories. Feel there's a strange element of troops to these stories. I mean nobody takes the crossroads. Because i can't guarantee what's going to happen but anyway in larue this snapping away. She makes a deal with the devil on her wedding day and she gives away her soul and the prices that she sort of lives forever but also she's invisible no one ever. She's not invisible like with your eyesight. She's like very forgettable. No one ever remembers her ever. That's the premise of the book. I even when. I say that premise out loud. I'm like yeah. Yeah okay so that type of book. It's so much better than that. Like i found myself really enjoying reading. You know you read those books where you're just like i'm having so much fun reading the story. That's how i felt. When i was reading it because she lives a long time and so she lives through different parts of history. And i just thought this was very very cleverly done. I'm not going to give the rest of the plot away. Because i don't want to do that but she stumbles across someone who doesn't forget her and so then it sort of brings into question a lot of what identity is what like the devil is and what that trait is if you were to make that kind of a trade for your soul and how binding that kind of commitment is and i guess i thought this was just going to be like sort of a cheesy bestseller fun but whatever and really i ended up thinking as i was reading it like this is what novels what. I often want novels to be like. They make you think but then they're also interesting. There's sort of a twist at the end. Not like a weirdo. Like that came out of nowhere. Twist but just not only. This is not where i expected. We were going. This is so satisfying that the author was so crafty about this. You know it didn't it. Didn't feel like pat or formulaic. And anyway now. Also y'all know this about me. I really suffer from the books. I read at the end of the year in that being my favorite of the year. Just because i read them at the end of the year yup every single solitary year. This happens to me. Yes however i will defend this one in particular because there were so few reading experiences this year where i just enjoyed myself and this was one of them. Where are people who don't read a lot who think that reading is boring or a chore or whatever. I often think they're not reading the right stuff. However i read a lot of things that are a little bit of a chore. I don't mind that because it's a thing i liked to do. This book is where i'm like. Oh this is like the joy of reading like it's just a great story. Everybody loves a deal with the devil about as the invisible. Life of addie larue. It's by schwab who's written numerous novels. But i haven't read any of her work before i hadn't even heard of her before it's fantasy isn't on my radar as much. But now i want to. Because it was just so inventive. I felt like that was my first one who wants to go next staff. Why don't you go next with your first best book of the air. Sure so my probably favor bug of this year was leave the world behind by ramana lamb. Who i know. Yes me loved this book as well And you read it to right. Laura i read about this. When i talked about it on the episode with my friend karen pants. We both loved it. But i want to hear your take on it because again. This is a weird pandemic read. Honestly this is a super weird pandemic read and in some ways. I probably wouldn't have read it. Had i known that. I got the book many months before it was published so we didn't really know what it was about. I got log line. That was basically a couple. Rents an airbnb in the kind of wilderness on long island and in the middle of the night a couple knocks on the door purporting to be the owners that is all i knew about this book and then it turns out. It's a little kind of painfully prescient about the world. You find out that there is something going on in the outside world and you never totally know what it is. And i think we all have slightly different interpretations of what might have actually been happening and you have these two couples one who is kind of middle aged white one who is older and black having to come together and the book kind of shifts at the first know third of the book is these two couples in there is kind of a very weird interaction's happening in a lot of like microaggressions and it's a very kind of tense relationship and then it turns into this entirely different thing where these two couples and the children all have to kind of come together to figure out how to handle and survive. Whatever is happening in the outside world with almost no knowledge of what's happening other than something is going dreadfully wrong there's an super large blackout in new york city which instigates the initial incident. And then all of these other kind of weird and vaguely fantastical things start happening. I was so into this look and so uncomfortable by what was happening. I just needed to race to the end to figure out kind of what the situation was. And i loved it. A lot of it is completely unanswered. Which i was delighted by and i feel like a lot of people are going to be absolutely infuriated by if this is not a book that gives you any easy answers but i was just so blown away by it. You know i. I had a dairy visceral reaction to it too. I think we talked about this last time. He met like. I had to put it down. Because i was physically reacting to it. I think it's because we're in the pandemic i was like. Oh my god. This is happening right now like i got got afraid that what was happening. The book with actually. What was happening though i was it was so close to home that he i had down and i was really affected by like just you know the whole unknown like a sense of unknown in this underlying fear and then the parents trying to make things normal for the kids. It's very. It's rare. That i have such a visceral reaction to a book but it was like it was such a physical reaction. I had down the niger. Remember told my husband i was. Oh my god. I don't think i can finish this back. Like i feel sick. I will also say if you wanna feel better about the world. Don't follow his twitter. The author is a delight on twitter. He's a writer for slate frequently and other contributes to a lot of other places but every once in a while people will send him articles about things that are actually happening pandemic that mirror his book and he'll re tweet them and that really freaked me out. I don't need that there was. It was extraordinarily well written though and thinking that he can get people off for all of us feel so much is exceptional book. I think did anyone read a children's bible started. And i didn't finish it which is super rare for may. It was on several of the award list. It was a national book award shortlist. I think it's has some similar elements in that. It just felt too close to home. If i had read that book in another year i probably would have felt like it was brilliant. Instead i read it. And i was like you know what this ask real did either read madonna whose book to the stars. It is about the the nineteen nine hundred. Seventeen flu epidemic. I picked it up for work. Because i thought i would check it out and i made it all of two chapters in and i was like what am i did and i i so i've read two chapters. I cannot tell you a good book. I have absolutely no idea. I'm probably never gonna read it. You know a big book of the year was lawrence rights. Who wrote the end of october. Which is about a global pandemic and apparently that book fantastic. But it's you know. Maybe just now people are were in it was a bestseller but in general i think was maybe not people are in the mood for because i think that it. What he writes about is what we're living through which is much like what's that famous movie that everyone keeps talk was in beijing. It was like contagion where there elements of this of like how how these things are spread. How the government might react. What the denial processes like like all. The things i think is present. I did not read the end of october. Even though i heard it was amazing. I still like john just not quite ready. Or the Version of what. We're actually living. I feel like there's two kinds of people in a pandemic there's the people who watch contagion and there's the people who watch you've got mail like i kind of feel like you're one or the other i'm distinctly. You've got mail category. 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I like to switch between the brands when my family's tastes change or when we want to eat a little differently one month i am excited to be able to share both brands with my listeners. Go to green shaft dot com slash eighty you and use code. Eighty you to get eighty dollars off. Plus free shipping. That's green chef. Dot com slash. Eighty you eight zero. Why oh you and enter promo code eighty you for eighty dollars off and free shipping and now back to the show. Okay yes i mean. What is your first book that you wanna share with us. That is one of your favorites of the year. So i read very early in the year of this. Great book called uncanny valley Are whiner though. I can't see belly is so great. It's about malley they. I really love her perspective because she's like this liberal arts major who comes out of college and doesn't really know what she wants to do and she ends up getting this job ida book app sort of. I don't know how to explain the app but is like a nap that geared toward readers basically and they hire her because she's Reading and she was like not happy her editing job that she's just sort of get immersed in the world of tech and goes from. This job doesn't quite work out to not are really big job at a really fight. The tech company. What i love that. She does like she never names companies which she'll say like you know the company with the optimal logo or the social media site that everyone hates you know Referencing face so this is memoir. Right a memoir. But you know she. Obviously he answered. Say the names of these companies she. She sends to create a way to get around. But it's a really look inside of the world like the tech world right in silicon valley from an outsider's perspective. Which is why i really like it. Because she starts to sort of realize like how much power for these companies have and how much power. She has being a worker and these these companies. How much access. She has her private information. How much stuff is shared and how people just like bowl. I league gives so much information. These tech companies that actually have people behind them as it was really an interesting exploration in terms of how she just starts taking this job and then starts to realize what is happening behind the scenes. And how much we have given over she. These huge tech companies in terms of getting away our information in how we rely so much on them in a way that before. So what i like about. It is that it's attack memoir of the tech world right so she is right. She's a reader. she's like us but she gives you the sort of like inside look into why it happening and the thing that is so that we don't we rely on it but we don't understand it at all day reminds me a lot of michael lewis and if you guys know michael lewis when he wrote liar's poker which was when he was working at lehman brothers but he was also like a liberal arts kid. Who sort of took this job. Lehman brothers ostensibly to try and make some money. But then he ended up. Writing about ed and mike starting his career and she is using that to sort of like writing her way out of this really dysfunctional environment and writing as a way to make sense of all of this stuff that she doesn't quite understand but this big power but also like the inside look in terms of how much money is given out and thrown around so easily just for ideas right to this first company that she works for like they give her a great salary but they don't actually even exist the company yet which happens all the time in tak like you get these unicorn companies that just get show much money from. Venture capitalists and. They're really just nothing but an idea but then they have billions of dollars higher budget stop. They do all such a fun stuck. But there's no product like nothing nothing exists yet and i think we've all just gotten so used to this way of functioning that like these. Vc's just give money to random companies. It's a little bit like the show kong valley right but like you do that inside. Look of how just random people can become billionaires overnight for an idea and not actually thing. But what i really liked by is just hurts. Hey comment in her experience of going through it unless she goes through the whole arc. Right of like she gets she gets promoted. Bigger companies at starts making more money but she starts losing herself and then she started becoming part of the world that she was never meant to be a part of. And it's just how quickly it happened. Like how she goes from being new york editor girl shoe like wearing a hoodie and jeans. Mike walking around san francisco laptop and like you know like she realize how quickly she just assimilated into this world. But i also like mitch. You know it's a female perspective as we like bro centric world and i think that doesn't get talked about enough in the larger world of like how we talk about it but i don't think you've seen this is the first time i've ever seen an experience of a female in this world of lead programmers in just the silicon valley men rape super compelling. Like you wouldn't think that like this younger woman story of basically just like going through early jobs in her career would be interesting but she has such a good take on what happens in the community and then how she becomes a part of it and she realizes what she doesn't want to be. I bought that book on kindle sale a few weeks ago because it ended up a lot of of best of the year lists in some of the big outlets new york times and whatever they publish their list at the beginning of december which i understand why they do that but also liked simple month. We can read. I'm like hesitancy even have this conversation. Mid december out probably pow publish a bonus episode at the end of december. Because i plan to read several more books by the time. The year ticks to done. But anyway i saw the uncanny valley which the bigger talking about ended up on a bunch of these lists for the end of the year. So i did buy it on kindle. And i love i love a good memoir. I actually listen to it on audible because they came out getting of the year and i was like i have an incredibly long commute show. I was listening to a on my commute. it was just is riveting. I really am not gone. Like i'm not normally an audible person. Be given that the amount of time. I was in college. I get really made things interesting for me but i. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was just really insightful. Particularly because she was not. I tend to not love memoirs who are younger but i felt like she had a lot to say about this really times the civic period in her life right not just her age but like what's happening with tax. I'm gonna go next. And i'm going to cheat. I know only on round two and a martyr cheating. But i've talked about this a lot on the show already on social media a lot so i'm kind of going to give my two favorite books of the year as one intrigue without giving a ton of words to either of them that are repetitive. But because i really want to highlight these are my two favorite novels of the year and they are total standouts. I don't feel like anything came close necessarily when i was choosing favorite books of the year. There's a lot of ways you can think about your favorite books of the year depending on like like already talked about with addie larue like just enjoyable experience versus also quality reads. Learn something kind of reads that kind of way. There's a million ways you can sort of categorize your five star reads your favorite reads of the year but for me. These two novels were my favorite books of the year for fiction. Nothing really came close just in quality. And those two were deacon king kong by james mcbride and hammett by maggie o'farrell so first of all deacon king kong. Did either of y'all read that. Yeah okay so. I don't remember why originally bought this. I know exactly where i was when i read it. It was an oprah book club book of the month. Pick and often like her picks i think that she is mindful of of what she chooses pointing her audience towards a certain point of view or author or genre but i believe and i hope i don't get this wrong but i believe it was a pick for her like in march window. World was falling apart so in some ways they kind of got missed by the normal masses that would flock to any kind of oprah book club especially after we haven't even touched on this yet but especially after. She chose very early in the year. American dirt to be her book club. Pick in january which was extremely controversial. I mean she did a two part series on apple tv in may ask for and to make up for it and i've also already given a lot of words to that. I felt that book was fine but not amazing. I thought that the controversy was actually more interesting than the book itself. And sort of the discussions that cropped up around american dirt and so. I think oprah's book club was in sort of a strangely curious position. If you can ever call anything oprah does precarious which you can't really but anyway. When she chose deacon king kong. I feel like it got. It got missed a little bit from the attention that her cup picks would normally get. I didn't even know that it had been chosen. And nor did i pick it up until july and it was definitely one of the books that brought me out of the pandemic quarantine reading slump because kindle. I started it with not low expectations by any means. I did not know much about james mcbride. I didn't know anything about it. i just was like. Oh someone had recommended oprah whatever click purchase. I started reading it. And i was like hold on a minute. Okay y'all jc cried. Why didn't you tell me. he's amazing. Keep ahead he wrote my. Probably favor memoir. I've ever read. Which is the color of water. Which i'm going to read in january prioritizing in january backlist titles from that i recently fallen in love with in the last few years. I'm reading all backlist in january. That memoir is top of the list because degan king kong is a new level. Folks like. I was literally like what is this. I felt like no one had ever told me about james mcbride. He writes about like very hard subjects. But he's like hilarious about it like it's light read but effortlessly light not like you're trying to not like snl like satire about a serious situation not like that like funny and heartfelt and it reads like a sing song almost the way he has named characters which i know is is steeped in the kind of culture he comes from an in brooklyn the projects and how they give all nicknames to everyone i know that part of that is cultural but i was also just like reading it and being like this is a song i just was like so blown away by it. I felt like. I've been robbed of years of james mcbride. I loved this book so much but it also had some very classic novel devices to it. So like there's kind of like a mob situation happening there's some of these other things that are i don't want to say quote unquote normal but just sort of normal things that pop up in novels right so it was almost like i was reading again a quote unquote normal novel but john at this totally other level it wasn't like he was reinventing the wheel with some whole new way to write or anything. I just had not read an author like him in a long time. It was the first time that this is a whole different thing. Everybody stopped out for james mcbride. I loved it so much. And then i'm also going to take my turn to also talk about hammett by feral because there was a little bit of the same now. I don't feel like it was the same level of uniqueness to him net the deacon qinghong where felt like i encountered a whole new level of writing that necessarily wasn't present in net but it is in my top two favorite novels of the year. Because has i wasn't excited about it. When i started it. It's sort of a fictionalized version of shakespeare's family. It don't know much about shakespeare's personal life at all. But i was like. This is like one of those novels that you're supposed to read because it's slight beautiful. People love maggie o'farrell. Like i just was like this is a novel. I'm supposed to read this fall kind of idea. And then i read it and you know before i'm halfway through i'm like oh this is really beautiful and as you both now. I'm not attracted to novels can be described as beautiful. I don't like flowery. I don't like poetry like beauty that i'm here. I like this. I like i just tend towards darker grittier. Beauty just isn't my thing. I mean your favorite author and stephen king and just beauty. I mike i can appreciate that. It's just like classical music. I can see that. There's a lot of genius to that and that's amazing. That's not what i'm gonna choose to put on kind of that sort of idea like beauty is just not my thing in choosing to read. Hand-knit i magill. Farrell is beautiful. And i also loved it. There's a darkness to it. There's a sadness to it. I had never pictured shakespeare as just like a flawed man who had a family which he did ostensibly a lot of theories. That shakespeare wasn't a single person. I do love a conspiracy. Theory digress into all of that. But i just you know you don't think about shakespeare as like a whose kid dies. That's not spoiler ham net which is a name that can also be sort of interchangeably used with the name. Hamlet is thought to be shakespeare son who died and then he wrote his most well known work. Probably which is hamlet. All of his is fictionalized. But to imagine that there's even a touch of reality into this. I just thought it was so well done. And i think there's something to be said if you can convert someone like me to this beautiful novel that that's like it's like worth mentioning as in my top of the year because we talked about being blown away or not blown away. I was absolutely blown away by him. Net mainly because. It's not my typical kind of vibe. And it's absolutely gorgeous. You haven't read it right. No but you told us about it. Alaska club so i went out and bought myself a copy. Which is what. I will be doing when i'm on vacation starting next week. Okay steph. i don't know that it's vaca- read. I don't have that much time other than vacation to read what i feel like. So it's gonna be a vacation raid. Been curious to hear what you think about it. Because i don. I felt we keep coming back to a couple of different themes one of the being expectations or not and i guess it's one of my favorite things when i have low expectations in a book super surprises me a joy in life. Actually it's so much. Turn have high expectations and a book disappoints. You guess staff. You're up so my next favorite book is called sorrow and bliss by meg mason. Which is a little bit of a cheat for this year because it has been published in australia. And i did check you can get it shipped to you but it does not come out in the united states until february but i would be hesitant not to talk about this luck. A just absolutely blew me away. It is kind of an interesting story. It's about a woman named martha you follow her from her adolescence. Through kind of when she turns about forty and the thing that you learn very early on. Is that martha suffers from an undiagnosed mental illness and the book is about her kind of learning to navigate. This mental illness eventually kind of getting help. But all through the prism of her relationships In adolescence part. It's mostly her relationships with her family. Which are incredibly impacted by her own mental illness. And then you kind of find out that that has kind of runs in the family and then the large chunk of the book is about her relationship with a friend and ultimately her husband when they get married two years later and tracks them through their marriage. It's done in a non linear style so the book opens with her husband leaving her and you kind of have to follow this character as she gets her life under control and she has to learn to separate what parts of the problems in the fractures in her relationship are due to her mental illness. And how much of it is just her and kind of not using that as an excuse for treating people badly. It's really sad and also so funny. I laughed out. There's one point where. I was a cackling at this book. I thought it was great. It's i think totally there's not a lot of books would necessarily compare it to but if you watched fleabag and he liked that show. That's what this feels like to me. At least it feels like i was obsessed with fleabag like fast. It's weird perfect television show. There's not one thing that could be made better about the child. I thought was perfect and then season two was somehow better and i truly don't even know how that's possible. This character feels kind of like fleabag where she has all these intense can of things going on in her life at her coping. Mechanism is humor. There's a part where she and her husband are moving houses and she labels every single box miscellaneous and i just. I don't know why that struck me is so incredibly funny but just the idea of her at her leg. Poor has been unpacking. Dozens of boxes all labeled miscellaneous ashes. Like i love this woman. This is great and it has a really cathartic ending but it also doesn't try to make it easy you know. She does kind of get her. You know her mental health under control but at no point does it let her off the hook for her own behavior. Which i really appreciate it. What's the name of it again. It's called sorrow and bliss by meg. Mason so we have to preorder that pre-order. It comes out. I think on february ninth. I believe the author is reddish. Although i don't know for sure. The book does take place in london primarily. You had me at fleabag because season two of fleabag. I feel like changed my whole life. Absolutely yes mean. Share with us your next favorite of the air in to together because they're similar the night way you can because i set the rules and i feel like the that's fine okay. So the first one that i did so many memoirs guys so what is the memoirs i read this year is a book called the beauty in raking by michelle harper. Who is a black woman. Doctor who in your doctor and she talks about her experiences is women. Join to harvard detects about her experiences as a black woman in the medical field so much. They're just that but also talks a lot about like her trauma and growing up in an abusive household and how that sort of led her to medicine and to wanting to be there for people wanting to help fix people. So it's just a beautiful book. I bring it up. Because i think there's so much systemic racism in medical bill and i can. I can speak to this other women of color. Who has been misdiagnosed. A gazillion times at had plenty of doctors not believe me when i say i'm in pain. Are you know so. It's interesting to get her perspective as a black female doctor and her experiences. But what i love about it is. It's like it's it's just beautiful beautiful memoir that really reflects on just the trauma and pain that you see in everyday life and just her experience growing up in this really violent household. It's interesting because she. She comes from sort of affluent family in dc but they have a lot of this constant violence abuse and domestic violence and they have to hide all of it never secretive about it and just how Shade her as a person not only wanted to help people who are in pain in crisis but it gives her this level of empathy as a doctor that not a lot of people have and i think that's what's so special about this book is like she really focuses on the connections that she makes with patients rather than just the medicine but like she sees them as people and other medical memoirs where people are where. It's different like it's not so much about like the connection with the people but it's more about the process but she really. She really focuses on like the connection that she has with people that she's meeting like offensively the worst day of their lives. Right if you're not in the er on a good. And she just recently wrote an article for medium about being er doctor during cova and that's also extremely well written on inciteful but you know really deals with her like that empathy fatigue on us that that happens when you are a good doctor really really really exceptional book. We don't hear that voice a lot like there are not a lot of black women doctors who are publishing books and so i think it's just it's such a good perspective to have because he doesn't actually talk too much about like what. It was like being black at harvard bay. You know her experiences are there. But that's not what the book is about. The book is about her empathy in her connection with these patients. Like it's just a beautiful book that leads me to my book which is a memoir as well but also the same themes of domestic violence. This is a book called in the dream house by carbon marine machado. This is the first book i have ever read. That deals with like a domestic violence in a same sex couple there the lesbian couples and with so that like she even speaks to that that like there is no language for her to even process what that means to be in. It'll gay relationship also experiencing domestic violence like. There's not really talking about it as you know. I used to be a domestic violence advocate. I weighed after the hotline. And we do a lot of training. I'm the fact that like domestic violence does happen with same sex couples but it's just never portrayed anywhere like we don't see very often and there isn't a lot of language to talk about it. So what i love about. This book is that she recognizes that this. She doesn't quite know how to process. So the not that memoir is like in itself just mishmash of genres like she had like an epigraph then a dedication in another epigraph each chapter is like this little vignette sort of like it called in the drain. How so each chapter is like the dream house as a dream house to our an intial sort of have like that. The she is exploring or the dream house as you. A song will show explorer lyrics asong their eggs and how they have to do with domestic violence. And so it's just like she just uses all these different lenses and so just from a purely stylistic point of view. it's so intriguing. Because she did doesn't fit into any genre it is memoir but it's also done in these little vignettes that are so different like the mathematically even structurally but i just think she does such a good job of tackling such a complex subject with complexity. I don't know if that makes sense but like it's like it's beautiful. The way she thinks together and then feet you feel like you're processing that relationship along her in terms of like oh the started out okay but the this happened in like is that even weird like should i should i be concerned about things and just really shine a light. On how complex interpersonal violence can be an how confusing it. And then when you have on top of that being part of a marginalized population she says young lesbian like it makes it even harder to understand what's happening and she's an interracial relationships just like layers of hunt layers of complexity and than she writes this memoir that is so incredibly complex and beautiful and sad but like you feel like the way it's constructed. You really feel confused along with her. Which i think it's something that doesn't happen and a lot of the lot of memoirs novels were discussing domestic violence or rape or these things. It's of from an outsider's perspective of like this happened to this person or or like a clinical observation. But this is like you're in it with her and and you are confused and it's just the whole memoir is sort of disorienting because switches styles and bit of everything i've read. I've read a lot about this like this is one of the only memoirs that like felt like it actually captured the The crazy of being in a abusive relationship. It's called in the dream house by carmen machado. Okay it's my turn again and you know. I made this list of my favorite books of the year. And i didn't even know which ones to talk about on this recording. Because there's good stuff on here happen just trying to figure out which books that i really wanna highlight for people for the best books of the year. And so i'm just gonna go with the next most important one to me which was cast by isabel. Wilkerson this book falls under the category of books. One should read. I've tried now for several years to broaden my education around race in this country and re different perspectives from people of color and read about history in a different way than i was taught it. And you know. I've been pretty deliberate about those things. Which is why pre-ordered this book before. It even came out. Because i knew it was going to be important. Especially in light of the mini changes. Our country saw with. George floyd steph this summer and then the protests that happened after that so i really wanted to prioritize reading books like this however the truth of it is i kind of felt like it was going to be a chore to read a book like this. There's already so much heaviness in the world you know i wanted to read it because this personal education is important to me but it wasn't a book i cracked open like with enthusiasm and then i started reading. It and i was like this is fascinating. She makes this really difficult history completely. Interesting. it's not like textbook. it's obviously depressing and hard things to read like in content but the way that she writes it and missing contrast to a lot of different things. I read on this topic of course and by that same topic. I mean if you're unfamiliar with this book race and by it s and some terrible things that happened in american history. She's really comparing it to india's caste system which is obviously generation only older than america is but she is contrasting it in that we have our own version of a caste system here in america that we are able to judge on people immediately by the color of their skin or the way they speak or any of the other ways that india also categorizes humans in two different tiers of worthiness of humanity and that america has its own version of that. But even as. I'm explaining that now the way that i'm saying it even isn't as interesting or compelling as the way that isabel wilkerson explains it where i did not come away as a white person reading this book. I didn't come away and feel shamed i mean i felt like horrified because these stories are horrifying but this book is not boring like a textbook and nor is it wagging a finger like shame on you that got us here or nor is it all of these ways that i felt like it could have been justifiably written instead it was just absolutely an education that was also things that i didn't know even having read a lot of stuff in the last few years about slavery and the civil rights movement and then some of these other temp holes of race in america like i've i've read quite a bit of this in the last few years and i learned so much from cast. I felt like she was taking some of these subjects that maybe some people are as the biased conversation goes on in america might be feeling like okay. I've learned all this already or i'm fatigued by this conversation. She completely makes it so relevant and interesting and highlights different parts of it that are not always shared. She shares other people's stories. Her writing has such a light hand. She packed so much into one chapter. But you don't close it and feel like i have to take a nap on our. I can't return to this for two weeks or some thing. Like i kept wanting to read it like this is. I didn't even know any of this. And not the tone police on this topic. Obviously i don't wanna miss state. You know what the tone should be on this topic. I'm not saying what it should or shouldn't be saying. I feel like people might see this book and feel like i'm not in the mood for that and you're wrong. It is so well. Dan you will learn so much from it and it's compelling it's like a page turner which i was completely not expecting on a book like this which which is with a lot of hard stories in it and for me. I felt like it took some of the broad strokes of things that we are learning and put release specific stories on it. So you can talk about lynchings the kkk. Really hard hard things to read about. And i feel like there may be a handful of stories when you're talking about that that you sort of hear over and over again and she took really specific other things that i didn't know that put faces on these stories like made it really real for me instead of making it like and then this happened and it was hard and this happened and it was hard like it just made it so real and i just can't say enough about this book it was my favorite nonfiction of the whole year. Cast by isabel wilkerson. I want everyone to read it. It is not a hard read. The topic is hard again. She just has a gift in the way that she's able to write but now we're going to move back to novels because stephanie doesn't read nonfiction. I mean that's not not true. This episode is also sponsored by better help. It is the end of the year. I know it has been a tough year for a lot of people. It might be time to be honest with yourself about your own happiness and think about if you're really living your life to the fullest. Do you feel stock in achieving your goals. Better help is an online counseling service available to clients worldwide. It is not a crisis helpline. It is not a self help program. You will be matched within forty eight hours to a licensed professional therapist. And you can start communicating immediately. You log into your county at any time and send a message to your counselor. It's one hundred percent secure and done one hundred percent on line. You can even schedule a phone or video session. Better help is committed to offering great therapeutic matches so it's also free and easy to switch counselors if you need to. It's also more affordable than you think with financial aid available visit. Better help dot com slash u. y. o. u. today to start taking control of your mental health. Ten things to tell you listeners. Get ten percent off their first month by going to better help dot com slash you. That's better help. H. e. l. p. dot com slash. You why oh you to save ten percent today so my next novel as my type. I read a book called the red shirt by corey sobel which was a little bit of an unusual book for me. Because it's about football and i don't know anything about football. It is out book about a young man who is going into college and all he wants. The world is to play football for a d. one team and he is gay and closeted and he kind of at the end of high school. It is clear that his high school coach knows that he is gay and tells him if you wanna play it does not directly. Say this but alludes to the idea that if you want to play one college football you can never come out and all of this kid likes is football. It is his whole reason for living and so he goes to this college. It's not a real university. But he goes to this college he gets paired up with another football player who hates playing but is spectacular like merican football kid and you have this kind of relationship between these. Two young men as they are progressing through college. It's almost entirely their freshman and a little bit into their sophomore year. College when you have the one kid who is playing for reasons. That are incredibly complicated. Despite the fact that he doesn't particularly like the game. And you have this other kid who wants nothing more than to play football and the book is you know. Sometimes you hear stories about like the tv show. Friday night lights. It's not really about football. This book is about football. It very much is. I learned a lot of football from this book but the relationship between the two young men is incredibly interesting as is the main character miles and his kind of relationship with his teammates. His drive for the sport. It's not always an easy book to read. I mean as you can imagine a book about a closeted young man in an environment that is casually homophobic too shocking degree. It's hard to read in some ways. It almost feels like a horror booker movie. Because you're just waiting for this kid to get outed and hoping that it will never happen and on the same time you know hoping that he is going to be able to live a more genuine life because clearly being closet is incredibly painful and so it's kind of these dueling notions and what. I really appreciated about the book as debt. It treats this character with such care. It doesn't judge him for what he wants. Whether that's to be a football player also doesn't judge him for being closeted which is clearly incredibly painful and it kind of takes him where he is. And it's not a book that i normally would have picked up. There's basically no women in the book which is a little bit unusual for me and this isn't entirely male kind of football team. All of his friends all of his experiences his kind of closeted relationships. So that was a little bit different for me. Also having spent no time in all environments despite the fact that i work in and have worked in some a male dominated industry like i've never experienced what that's like and the kind of casual homophobia was really really surprising and also felt incredibly realistic. Which is incredibly sad. I found a really really affecting. You really really root for this. Can you want him to get everything he wants. And you know at the same time. It's not really possible for him. So i really really recommend it. The redshirt corey bill. This is such an unusual pick for you staff. It's an incredibly unusual for me. It was work. I was like board and goofing around on good reads one day and recommended it and i was like you know that actually sounds kind of interesting. It's not usually what. I read the football stuff. I will totally own to like googling several things like this. I don't know any of the things. Figured out his word you look you can pick it up from context clues but also like i had no idea like a lot of the book is about like working out in gaining weight like drills that i know nothing about it doesn't shy away from that. It is very much about this particular subculture like to play college. Football came out this year. He a few months ago. I think maybe october it got almost no press so i don't know if anyone else has to decide for me on the one dude on good reads whoever you are. My friend like well done like this. We took a real weird turn stab. The ultra feminist has talking about the gay football book. It's fine yeah that's me. I'm entering into the left-field choice for me to be sure. Okay yes mean what. Are you wanna talk about next. Is this our last round. Yeah we've been talking like two hours plus but okay you again. You're such a cheater. Yeah you're such a cheater. The manically okay so the first one is the vanishing half by brit. Bennett second book. Her first book was than mothers between renton book club many years ago and i enjoyed this but i absolutely love. I love it so much. So the action half is it's about twins it's about it's about load being light skinned about colorization in the black community. It's about louisiana. It's about your life discovering your identity There's a part. This is not a spoiler in all the reviews. But isn't this a character in the book who is passing other wipers and a couple of weeks. He at least for me like books. That i have really resonated with me about this concept of passing and one of them is a passing by null arson and this book reminded me very much of that. It doesn't really job talking about identity about sisterhood about twins about like missing portion of yourself about but also with laugh about brit bennett that she sort of just explained explorers. Like the what happens if right like these people make these small choices early on in the hasn't like massive impact generations away right and i think she doesn't really good job of exploring. One decision has affected families through generations unlike the daughters of these twins and what they think about and also they live in this town that was founded by their great great grandfather. Who you know wanted to create a town for light skinned black people and like what is that. Do you know what are the ramifications of that decision so i. The light skinned black person. There was a lie in this book today. Understood that i have seen in my life. And i've known people who have passed as something other than black and i think it's it's just interesting choice. It's something i think about with my daughter who could probably very easily pass as not being a black and latino which she is so really it really just explores that like what happens if you make this choice and reminds me. Up is an episode of this amazing. Show that everyone should watch called lovecraft country on hbo. but there's an episode of lovecraft country. Where the black character at to become a white woman and she does all of these things that you cannot do. The dark skinned black person. Like she goes shopping and she gets a job in a makeup counter and does all of these things that were just unheard of for a dark skinned black person in the sixties spoke. Made me think about that. Like obviously i would never want to passed by you. See in this book and another book about this concept of like the the. Why right like if something is so close to you. But you can't access it like how infuriating it is and how you can tell one lie like one day and pass as a white person and how all of that privilege in all of that experience and then like. Why wouldn't you wanna keep doing it. You know like. When it's i mean i know why i wouldn't but i can. I can see that like once you get the experience of being recognized as a white person in having all this just innate privilege. It's a very difficult thing to say. Okay well. I'm just going to go back to where i don't have that. So don't really interesting exploration and then later on down the line like there are children who are darker skinned. That has the whole thing. But i i think it was a really good exploration of color. Ism the i don't know why people understand that are not but like i came late to the game of life skinned person in terms of understanding the impact of course in how much i have benefited from being a light skinned person with what's light. Good air so it's always interesting for me to read things that address color. Because i just didn't they might that white people need to be educated about the black american experience. I get wipers need to be educated about what it's like to be a darker person and understand that i have an enormous amount of privilege that they don't have. It's just a compelling subject for me. i think it's something that more people should understand because it's my duty lights in person to opened the door for darker skinned people in say you had a lot like often asked to be on panels. And if i'm the blackest person on the panel like need to do some more work fight some other people. So i tend to always do that a like okay. That's great. i'm glad. I have my voice but like i have a friend who is also in this business and she she valuable in this community. She has other perspectives. And i don't know i just think. This book deals a lot with that in its in. It's also like fictional town. Louisiana people who unesco. It's so much i related to you but i think it just a really interesting exploration of the choices you make in. How like one lie. When i can change the trajectory of your life and i think that's what she writes about really well like if even if you take all the rates of out of at like what she writes about is how small traces have these unintended revocations years later. That feels like what she wrote about in the mothers to which both of those books are truly truly phenomenal I loved the vanishing. Half as well and the mothers is one of my kind of all time favorite. She's such a talented writer and she's so young she's so many books ahead of her which is excellent normally like i hate writers who were super young and talented. But i didn't know how book in your this ya but like i didn't. I mean she was still good. That i asked my resentment that she's incredibly talented. I've liked vanishing half. I didn't love it. I liked the mothers better. I love the premise of the vanishing app. And everything that you said about like sort of what it's about. But i think as a book has a story. I guess i wanted something different to happen at the end or i wanted something more out of the story part of it even appreciated what she was doing with the premise and with colors. And all of that. Like i thought that was interesting to learn about and read about but i think just from a pure story perspective. I wanted like a different ending. Whereas i remember with the mothers and i don't a hundred percent remember the plot in the mothers but i felt more closure or something at the end of the mothers like i felt like okay. That's the end of a book. I felt a little wanting at the end of the vanishing half a little bit. Not a perfect book like. There's also some like farfetched coincidences that happened. But i think overall it still good. It's it's just it's just like a delicious not like it so good but i hear what you're saying. I think i actually like this one better than the mothers. I think i just but it's also just me and like my like my connection to it. You know like there were just so many things in at. I had a personal connection to you in like a real understanding of that i felt i just liked it more. Okay can we handle one more round. Can we go fast. Sure i do wanna talk about this. But i'm sorry. If i'm i'm kind of about the steel from one of you. Are you about to steal my dark vanessa from me. I'm like just kidding steph. He didn't say early enough in his show. I'm gonna say it now. I way i really feel like that. This is one of my favorite books of the year. And i might end up having to do a whole separate bonus episode for all the books. I didn't get you but i really want to. Highlight this book as a novel. Because i read this pre pandemic of may at the very beginning march. And it's one of the ones that here we are at the end of the year. 'cause i suffer from highlighting the books i read at the end of the but this is one of the ones i read at the beginning of the year that i'm still thinking about nine months later. And that is my dark vanessa. By kate elizabeth russell. There's so many good things about this book like it's well written is an interesting story plot. Whatever but what has stayed with me the most and i realize this this is controversial and this is not like i'm not writing this and cement or whatever this is not permanent but what has stayed with me and it really made me think about is. This book is about a boarding school student who is fourteen fifteen and she enters into a sexual relationship with her teacher who they call a professor. Because it's sort of a professor relationship because it's boarding school but really we're talking about a teacher and a fifteen year old and what has stuck with me about it. Is that when you hear that. I'm sure most of us have an immediate reaction to how wrong that is everything. That's terrible about that illegal about that and traumatizing damaging and all of these things which it is all of those things but this story really made me think about the complications of this type of relationship. She's writing it. It's sort of flashes back between her sort of thirty year old self for thirty something year old self and her adolescent self and even as a thirty year old. She does not lay full blame on this teacher on this man as having abused her she does some very questionable things i her actions sorta take place after they've already entered into this terrible relationship and she does some things to try and keep his attention and some some other actions. I'm not going to give any spoilers here but basically one of the reasons that this book made such an impact is because i feel like for the first time i got a true insider glimpse into why these stories are complicated and yes. Of course i do think. There's all kinds of wrongness here okay. I'm not justifying any event but reading. This book was like. Oh this is. I don't know it just sort of shifted my black and white thinking on this thing that we can. All agree is wrong but is still very complicated. Now the hang up here is that she's at the character is a thirty year old sort of writing. This is obviously a thirty year. Old very damaged harmed traumatized person who does not have a clear understanding of what actually happened. I guess what i'm saying is just reading her thoughts on it from what i think is clearly an author experience. I don't want to speak in the kate. Elizabeth russell's live here. But this just feels like this was not made at from scratch. I don't know. I don't know how to say it without giving any way to this. Made me think about this situation differently than i ever had before. And that's why to me. It lands on a best book of the year list because this is an easy topic and nobody wants to say. Or maybe i think about this topic differently because you don't want to think about this topic differently but also that's what a good book does. It's funny because you and i actually had slightly different takeaways even though it was also one of my favorite books this year but i almost kind of struggle with favorite. Because this is a book that i will never read again. This is a book that made me want to take a shower. His behavior is so sinister and horrifying as you're in it as an adult reading this book and you're absolutely right in net from her perspective as a fifteen year old. This is a love story but you alternate that with the fact that this is now a thirty year old woman who is so profoundly damaged that this is the kind of defining experience of her life. That happened to her when she was fifteen and has completely altered the rest of her life. And while i think the fact that you're in her mind and you see this quote unquote love story from her. Perspective is absolutely makes you think so much more from that perspective. I never once thought this wasn't completely sinister behavior. It was so hard to read so horrifying. And you steve. Very specific grooming behaviors before the sexual relationship starts which is also when that starts is a particularly kind of traumatizing. See and reading. I have this very very vivid kind of picture in my head of what happened. And it's so affecting and so all right but so so difficult. I think what i want to say is that a guy changed my perspective in that what i would see this relationship on paper teacher. Fifteen year old. I would have thought well. She doesn't even get to have a perspective. She was abused. This is over. Like i don't even she doesn't even get to think it's a love story. I don't even want to hear that. That is not a narrative that is not a valid narrative. She doesn't understand what was happening. She doesn't even get to have a story here. That's how i would have felt about it. And so then. When i read it i think was the first time that i was like even abuse victims have their perspective like they get to have their story. I guess a little bit is why is kind of what made me feel like i almost would have invalidated her perspective. I wouldn't have even let her have it. And now reading this i was like oh. This is fascinating. It doesn't mean. I don't think that it's not wrong or sinister. I wouldn't have even allowed myself to even think about it. And now i'm like. Oh no she has. She gets to have a valid perspective of this. Yeah no i agree with that. I have lots of thoughts as i have read. You had a relationship with the teacher who was not that much older than us. He was in early twenties. When we were sixteen but having a ringside seach that whole situation. I under stay on the her speculative of the young girl thinking that this was something. I do have an issue with this book be heights. I don't know if you've bought the whole controversy of this author named wendy ortiz. Wrote a memoir of her experience excavation in the books are stove similar. That is a little frustrating. I i'm not accusing the other author player then. I think that this story happens and this could be my friend story too. So i think it's. It's happened enough. But i think what frustrated about this book is that like way or teases book is a better book and had never had the chance that this book had and i'll asked to do but the nature publishing and who we decide guest you being authored. Who gets to get all that stuff. Frustrated me because i think it's not a bad book but when you are infinitely better and it's a memoir because it was like this fictionalized i think you know i think i think that it seems really real show but i i don't know i have issues with the fact that this was the book that became the book and not some of the other works that are out there that are better but again it's also common story that like it could be anyone's story in. It really could be my friends story like the similarities are so striking the yom okay. So truly stephanie. It's your turn but you have two minutes. I think that was my book. I will say one book that. I'm reading right now that i really am enjoying which speaking of your january goal of reading the back catalog. I'm currently reading a visit from the goon squad which i had never read an actually spring. I know i missed. This amount is actually bringing me a lot of joy for multiple reasons. One of which is the book is amazing. A whether you define it as a novel or short stories like it's a little bit loosely connected but is very vignette e which i'm very very into but also it's a quarantine thing where i was unable to go to a bookstore and was patrolling my own book shelves and picked up. This book opened up the front cover and found a post it from my grandmother who died a handful of years ago and it was a book that she had set aside for me and told my allow nail to me. So there's a little posted that i've kept at says four steffi males to her in santa barbara recommended by joe. Climb on chris. Matthews has my grandmother martha whiz at the biggest news reader and watcher. You'd ever meet in your life up until when she died in her late nineties and joke line if anyone has ever read wrote one of my very favorite books primary colors which he published anonymously which was a romana klay about the clinton campaign the first clinton campaign which is a great book but my grandmother clearly liked to joke line interested his taste so she said this and i'm thrilled to be reading it right now. So that's that's gonna make my end of year lists. I'm actually really into it. I love to visit to the goon squad. But my favorite jennifer eakin book is the key deep if you are going to read backlist titles and it's short and i loved that book the keep an eye. That's not one of the ones. I feel like that gets highlighted. I her very often. Goon squad is like so people have that one. But i will keep that in mind. Cause i'm gonna do what you do and read some backlist january when there's not so much pressure for the hot new thing. Yes me you two minutes. Okay so i have one other big just came out recently. Infection book of the month. The office of historical corrections by daniel evans lives short stories. In a little novella at the end. And i just i'm all about black women. Black women writers again. This book is amazing until the anything black stories. Yeah and she picked by wrote the hell out of this book. There's no other way to really. It's really it's not give too much away but like it. I like the structure of it to that there. Are these these short stories that lead up to this novella and then like all of the things kind of come together in the novella. And you're like whoa holy crap. That was amazing. What you did there so again. Office of historical correction annual evans. Your maverick booking you can get it next month for nine dollars on. I should write it down because as you know every single time we meet and we talk about short stories. I'm like i don't like short stories. I actually love short story so much. Some of my favorite books been. Yes have been short-story collections. My favorite book last year. One of them was friday. Black amazing that short story collection is seriously mind-blowing than the year before that i loved curtis. You think i'll say it like i. I don't know why. I poo poo short stories in my head and then i read them. And i'm like short stories are a basic like this one a lot and i think he would like it. We are we to wrap up because we have another booking to talk about laureate. God let me do it. What is that. Show definitely it. I got it. Rats copies that laura remains carrier stuff. I'll go first book. That comes out in february right second. It's already available for preorder. I'm feeling super nervous right now. Where super privileged to get the like advance coffee. But i did want to talk about it. Because i cannot recommend this enough. And it's not just because she's my friend her about club that you're listening to this but like it was dill vol- by air such a surprising. Little set up. It's really likes spending an afternoon. Or two with laura at mike having these conversation. But i really. I just want to say very publicly. That i'm so proud you're writing. The writing is just like unexpectedly delightful. You are a delight but like it was so easy to read and just so compelling and interesting and like i've known for a long time now but like just being inside your head a little bit more made by. I just felt like i got even closer to you and i was like. Oh that's why she. I never i really. I really was able to get a deeper sort of appreciation of your journey to this person that i now right and i met you before. Some of the stuff in the book has happened. But like i just think it it. Just give me a deeper appreciation of choices that you've made. Unlike the deliberate choices you may be the type of woman that you are in family. They have I love the structure of it too. I think that was the most surprising part. Because i sort of understood what it was gonna be like. Then there's so much more than just like these are stories about laura. So i wanted to say that because i think it's important for people listening to know that like i know her. I know her well. And i was like well. This is amazing. I didn't know that so it's interesting because like what yes said is i found it fascinating because on the one hand it so intimate and i feel like i know you already fairly well. But it's such an intimate look at your life at the same time. It feels exactly like you. And i was also surprised and incredibly thought provoking and i get teased occasionally about this book club. I don't journal. I don i have never. I don't understand it. Don't know how to do it and four. i like i don't get it and for the first time ever. I haven't notebook. I should actually answer these questions and think about it. I spent about a week. Like i have a journal. I am journaling bizarre. I ve truly never done this in my entire life. That's awesome and i cannot wait to send it all to all of my friends. I have a couple of specific friends very very very good girlfriends. That i plan on buying the bookstore. Because they're the people that i want to have the conversation with so we're all the three of us are going to have to read the book together and then have the leg in. unfortunately it'll be zoom. But like. I think i'm going to try and have my little. My little girlfriend book clubs. We can talk about the things that came up for us and so good you can get all be a gallon teens gift. It comes out on the second. But if you're wanting to buy it for friends like i i am going to encourage people will make it closer to buy it as like a fun gallon tines gifts in february and then be able to talk about it a few weeks later or something like that. I think that would make for a nice point of connection especially in this year when a lot of felt disconnected. Hopefully you know by the mid spring the world will be writing itself a little bit and i think we're gonna have a hard time being like. Oh my gosh. how do we do this. Like what are we talk about you know and so maybe this book will be that for some people to be like well okay. Let's kind of reset with this. Let's just start with these questions. We're trying to learn how to be friends again in the real world. you know. I appreciate you forcing me to talk about it on the today. I appreciate you reading it early and giving a ringing endorsement. I love talking about our favorite books of the year. This was super fan. I always loved this episode. We always talk for one million hours. But i appreciate you and thank you for coming on the show and sharing your thoughts and opinions with my listeners about the best folks because as you know we all agree. I think that reading is such an important. Part of life to broaden. Your heart broaden your mind. It's really joy in this crazy. World is reading. So thank you for being here. Thanks for having us. I'm laura tremaine and you've just listened to the ten things to tell you podcast. You can find the show notes and subscribe to episode emails at ten things to tell you dot com slash podcast and you can follow us on facebook and instagram at ten things to tell you remember. This is an interactive podcast. I have ten things to tell you. And do you have ten things to tell so taking this topic to your journal or a friend or post on social media using the hashtag. Ten things to tally. These episodes are meant to bring an action with others and ourselves and spark better conversations. Thanks for listening. Now go shearson.

stephanie yasmeen laura tremaine addie larue hollywood oprah reese jenna jenna Bush hager mike s agatha christie robert johnson abbey larue frederick bachmann schwab Johnson steve knox Ebi ebi
Ep 415 - My Grandmother Asked Me To Tell You She's Sorry, by Fredrik Backman

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58:12 min | 1 year ago

Ep 415 - My Grandmother Asked Me To Tell You She's Sorry, by Fredrik Backman

"This is a head. Gum podcast while Andrew and Craig believe the joy of discovery is crucial to enjoying any well told tale. They will not shy away. From spoiling specific story beats when necessary. Plus these are books. You should have read by now. Uh It wasn't a raccoon. Andrew wasn't a raccoon that adolescent raccoon. That was giving me so much trouble last week. Hi Welcome over to gas at the books even mean to read when he was Craig. My Name's Andrew and if you're just tuning in you will remember that last week when we recorded Craig had an animal and his wall that was giving him a lot of grief he had a roommate move in and clean squatters rights in our wall and after hearing the animal noises over the phone a man said with a pretty high degree of confidence as I recall that it was definitely an adolescent recruit. Yes that was not. That's not how turned out. How the story turnout? No a very kind. Man named jared came to my house the next morning and promptly within hearing it and he had also laid eyes on outside of the building said. That's starling that's a Birdie or wall and he'd spent half an hour trapped inside our closet after cutting and then he said Hey. It's two birds in there. So and they shoved him in a cage humanely and then sealed up our wall and left never to be seen again. They say burn. The hand is worth two in the wall. Yeah I guess just like is the exchange rate one adolescent raccoon equals to starlings and is that why he thought it was an adolescent birds dressed up as a raccoon. I guess maybe just the guy on the phone had dealt with enough raccoons that he he taught we got told a story about how young raccoons like lose their way in the tunnels between houses. And this was like no bird got in through a hole and then fell and then the big bird didn't WanNa leave it behind which is noble. I suppose but we didn't get any sleep so I was. I've never been less angry. No more angrier animals. I think than I was those days. But we're we're we're here now and there are still allow birds in our neighborhood. But they're not in my house which is where they should be so. That's one story wrapped up on this. Podcast we love story. That's normally when we're not getting animals in places where animals shouldn't be each chivas. Reads a book that we've never had before and we tell the other one about it and you. The listener gets a ride along. Yeah you read this week Show I read. My Grandmother asked me to tell you she sorry Frederick Bachmann it is also published in the UK. I think as my grandmother sends her regards and apologizes. Which do you like better? I do think I like the US version better. Because I want I want the. Uk wanted to be. My Grandmother Sends Her regards and apologies. Holiday is is very odd though I guess in keeping with the t tell you she sorry. It's like more active than sends her regards and apologies. But I do like the tell you she sorry it. Just it's simpler. It's I duNNo. It's more direct. Maybe that's more American of me. Yeah Bachman is what. He's Swedish right. Yes I think the translation is by henning coach and in Coke And I enjoyed the translation. Just fine I had no like. I know I had no ringing. Endorsement is fine there. We've talked about some novels. I could translate it and it's like you can't you lose a sense of auth intent sometimes because I think we talked about this a little bit on the shadow of the wind episode like. Yeah where is it leaning into the Gina and whereas is it leaning into just a flowery translation and the fact that this book is a very close third person of seven going on eight year old helps with elect directness of the language Like feeling justified in world but also probably keeping the translator from like kind of getting out there on on a limb. I don't know what am I wanted. this was recommended to us by one of our patrons supporters. Susan thank you Susan. Susan didn't provide any additional information very excited to Dallas to read this book. So that's all was just GONNA have have to reverse engineer Susan's opinion about the spot. Hey that's okay there you go. That sounds good What do you got Bachmann or the novel Andrew Yellow just a little bit on on Bachman in the novel so the novel like US says published in two thousand fifteen in the US and in the UK and then originally in twenty thirteen in Sweden This Bach Men's second novel His first a man called Ova which I watched a movie trailer they can. I kept going back every time a character said his name. So that's that's the best pronunciation. I got based on the trailer for the film. Sure the Swedish movie that came out in two thousand fifteen by the same name. A man called the. Yes which is far as I could tell us about a crank uelmen with a gold cranky all may with a heart of gold and this book is littered with Cranky people with hearts of gold. So you can see. There's a if you've you've read a man called Ova you probably will feel right at home and liked it like you'll feel at home in this book because I there's a similar worldview. I suppose that's what I was when I was reading through a reader reviews of of this. I saw a couple of people mentioned. You know I've I've read a bunch of Walkmans work in. This is the most similar to the man called who've except with a bunch of other stuff which will get into sure. Sure Yeah other books include Britain Marie was here. Bear town which sounds like a fun us against you and then Avella's every more and every morning the way home gets longer and longer and the deal of a lifetime and in a nonfiction book called things my son needs to know about the world Britain. Marie was here. Might be in the same universe like fictionally as This book my grandmother etc. Because that's one of the main key one of the characters that we meet one secondary characters that we meet and from what I read about. The Synopsis Picks up where that character leaves off in this book of a woman whose marriage falls apart and she goes off to explore a new chapter in her life. SO I don't. I don't know that it's been called a sequel. I would have expected it to be but the more of a view askew never S- situation. Yes definitely where things are where. Things are vaguely related by virtue of not directly contradicting on. Oh sure times silent Bob shows. I forgot that that's what that universe was called and I forgot that it was a universe. Yeah the older guy. Like every seventy five episodes or so I bring up the view esque universe in reference to some world building. One of those movies I've ever spent real time with his dogma which I don't know if it holds up but I liked it I like at the time and I think I choose to leave it back there though. Alan Rickman is good. In as our CAU- Yes Allen. Richtman is good in it interesting okay. That's all I got about him that he did he's a he's also like a newspaper columnist and essayist and then got into novel writing There's a New York Times profile of on him from twenty sixteen mostly on the like. Wow this guy's sell us books like Well like why the itsel lots of books in America like. How did that happen okay? That's it traces. It from like the rejection of the Ova manuscript which he said one publisher said we like your novel. We think you're writing has potential but we see no commercial potential and one of the like booksellers who acquired the rights. Peter Boylan said I had a great voice and it was different from everything else I was reading. It wasn't Scandinavian Nawar Scandinavian. He paused searching for the right description. Something Else I. It is interesting to think about it as a as an American book industry though like the Swedish export from the like mid to late arts was stieg Larsson and like the girl with the Dragon. Tattoo and now homing and then this guy. That's more I've never read any of those. But that's more of like a thriller. Yes yes archetype. Right yes And this is very different at a whole different thing so reading reading reviews about the book. And because because you asked me to just let come with some kind of vague handle on what the book was. Yeah please and like you said to me like it's not quite sick. Lit like the the new on air because because we talked about it or on her own but not when we were playing. Drive trucks right. Cyclic is a sort usually. I WANNA a fiction. A character dies or is dying in that is the like you the instigating event of the story or just like a access that everything sort of yes the What's the John Green Book Palmar our stars our stars. Maybe it's either a walk to remember and or the Britney Spears movie crossroads. Yeah it's some you gotta spend the last good times with someone's life a book. The one that I that came to mind that I read for the show while but I still think about sometimes said tell the wolves I'm home. Oh have it here. It's a girl's uncles. Mike Boyfriend is dying of AIDS in the late eighties early nineties sure sure and teaches the girl a little something about life along the way like. It's easy to be dismissive of the of the genre and so so this isn't quite that but it's sort of playing in that wheelhouse is a character. Death in that does set the events of the of the book into motion but it sounds like in addition to just being about Mike people with hearts of gold. It's also got some like sort of magical realism means. Sort of make believe it has a main believes going on. Yeah let me give you the really reductive sentence that I put in our chat before we started recording already. He already gave it to me. You don't have to you have to give me again. That's why I'm saying I have it already. Let me say it out loud in case anyone else needs to hear it. Okay if you think that's necessary. Eight-year-old learns that a bunch of adults in her life are more connected than she thought and that everyone is more complicated than they seem at first glance and that is definitely what happens in the book and it is run through this. You Know Main Character Elsa who is seven going on eight. She is quote unquote. Different is a for is a term that both and people people who like her and people who don't like her consider her different and it's like either a good or a bad thing based on whether or not you like her she's A very precocious kid. She's Super Smart. She loves to read But she also loves to tell people when they're wrong and loves to people. Love love to like wind. That super endearing wheeled that knowledge that she you know really ingests a lot of information and then like is pretty insightful. About how people behave and just her peers. Her seven year old boys are not prepared to receive that type of treatment from anyone let alone. A girl If you can't hear my I roll and the whiplash gave my neck for being a seven-year-old boy there for a second So she really only has one friend who really gets her and that is her granny who I think is seventy seven and she has. She's she is seven and then granny seventy yes. Yes and granny is like Man Take multiple versions of the like outside the box grandparent from fiction but like and roll it into one but like she's not super problematic like she's not you know spouting off with stuff that she shouldn't say necessary racist racist grandma she's more like the grandparents from. Hey Arnold yes she's A. She's an agent of chaos. Graham is and her and Elsa get along very very well and so the it's not quite the inciting in the book but the major incident in the first quarter of the book is that Granny does pass away from cancer and she leaves this like Treasure Hunt of letters for Elsa to find and then deliver to various people who live in their apartment building And over the course we'll get we'll dive deeper than this but like the Ark of the book is Elsa learns about granny while also thinking about how to like remember her as she encounters people. She thought she knew one way but then like based on how she interacts with them. Trying to deliver these letters and trying to uncover who actually are like learns a little bit more about them in how the book the Fairytale Thing Always GonNa ask is is. This person is pretty straightforward. But how does to the extent that this book lost people in the good reads reviews? Okay how was all the jumping around between this stuff and like the make believe stuff so the the make believe stuff. The book does not. It doesn't do a straight up NARNIA. It doesn't do a straight up magical realism thing. The the magical part of this book is that there's a place called What is it called the land of the most the land of the land of almost a week which is a place that Granny Helps Elsa. Go to When she first you know Elsa thinks that the land of almost away comes from when Elsa parents were splitting up and she was having trouble sleeping and having autzen nightmares and granny invented this place. Elsa thinks To give her a series of stories to like take your mind off eight. It's a place you go when your eyes are half closed. You don't even have to get fully asleep to go there and it's made up of like six or seven kingdoms That all have these interesting. Names MEA MOSS and memo vaas. And there's lots of interesting little word play And it's not straightforward fantasy but there are princesses and nights and there are monsters in there are like shadows and things like that. Is it the seed siblings? Who had that elaborate doesn't will union. They may that doesn't really the most of it doesn't really exist anymore correct. It didn't survive. I mean yes Let me read two passages that give you a sense of what this world is? And then I'll talk about functions in the book Grainy says that the Kingdom had called me a moss for an attorney or at least ten thousand fairy tales but also knows the granny only made this up. Because Elsa couldn't say pajamas when she was small and used to say Mama's instead except of course grainy insist that she never made up a bloody thing in Miami and the other five kingdoms in the land of almost awake or not only real but actually far more real than the world. We're in now where quote everyone is an economist and drinks lactose free milk and makes a right fuss. Granny has a story from Yarmouth forever spending time on twitter. It sounds like granny likes to rail against the man a lot granny refers to this person. We'LL TALK ABOUT GRANNY. And and what she did as a surgeon but she talks a lot about capital society holding her back telling her you couldn't practice medicine Granier a story from MIYAMA's for every situation one of them is about deplores. The kingdom were all sorrow is kept in storage and it's princess was robbed of Magical Treasurer by an ugly witch whom she's been hunting. One was about the sea angel burdened by curse that forced her to drift up and down the coast of the land of almost a week after losing her beloved and it goes on and on and on like The builds to this war and see this happen whenever you encounter in the book. It IS ELSA. Remembering a story that her grandmother told her You know the one fairy tale. The shadows tried to abduct the Chosen. One in order to destroy this place but the cloud animal saved him and flew him all the way back to me. Moss and when the shadows came after them all the inhabitants. The six kingdoms of the land of almost week agreed to protect him and that was when the war without end started And so you get like never ending. Yeah it's very never ending story and you get character names you get wolf heart you get these beasts called resources you get the Chosen One. You get the C. Angel And Elsa has has these as a frame of reference for a body of fiction which she like occasionally will call out granny for like stealing things from Harry Potter or is unlike because Elsa loves Harry Potter and has a Griffin Doors. Scarf cares for it in the way that a seven year old cares for like a prized possession Harry Potter or And you know granny has invented this whole series of stories and as Elsa meets people over the course of the book she realizes that each of these stories like pertain to one of the people who live in the apartment building. So I did experience as you're going through the book. The fairy tales feel like they. Don't feel like filler. But they feel like you you you you know. They're a set up for something else as opposed to something to necessarily be taken on. Its own does that make sense Like they're not bracketed off in their own chapters where there's a compelling narrative to like Hook into. They are shared with the reader as Elsa remembers a story that she can use to make sense of the world. The reason it feels a little magical realism. E is that Elyssa then dislike commits to using some of the vocab from these stories like in the close third person that you're reading selection meets this guy who she is just decided is the monster. He turns out to be more like the old man from home alone where he scary but he's actually very helpful and kind and is just a sad person. I'm shows up at the exact right times whenever you're in trouble. There's this big monster dog that lives in the apartment complex for some reason and she constantly refers to it as the fairy tale word the worse And that never changes so like the book never actually tells you what kind of dog it is or anything because through the kids is that is the is the narrator you have this. Patina of fairy tale over everything Does that does that. Invite you to make up your own like play along at home and make up your own stuff to 'cause I imagine a worse to be just like a worse horse. It's a Portmanteau of worse and horse. Maybe in my head Oh God. I hadn't thought about that. She does like I'm on it and it's supposed to be like monstrously big at one point. She you can't the the the narrative style and there's not a I can't even pull out a section of the book that will give you this feeling but the the third person aerator is so close to her. That sometimes in the middle of reading I would think I was reading a first person narrative because it's so in her head That when she is talking about like providing treats to this dog that she's like keeping in the basement of this apartment building but she's talking about it like she's feeding this mythical creature Like instant cake. Mix Out of a thermos You're you're not quite sure. What like Elsa version is real and what the quote unquote like? Active reality is and that seems to be the point and that show. That could be a a bouncing off point. I think for people who are like into the heart warming learn about my granny's life narrative. But aren't here for the what is real and what is in work and it's a lot of work but it is some or you just kind of need to be willing to gloss it a little bit and I will be honest. I think I lost some of it because I once I realized what it was doing I would like look for the key parts of a story and then be ready to map it onto some of the other characters that already met because it sounds like there's a lot of world building going on that is just kind of there to flesh out the characters imaginary world without really conveying important information to you. The reader like world buildings not important if you're if the world actually is not what's driving the yeah dory if not what? The book is focused on being about if he to to talk about. The book does value stories. So I don't WanNa like short sell their presence in the book but them being compelling standalone narratives is not the point the point. I think what Batman's going for is like a these. Are you know stories? A grandmother told her granddaughter to help her through times and here is how that granddaughter uses them to help herself through times And Elsa interacts with anyone her own age throughout this book so every time she is talking about these stories and she talks to all the every adult about fairy tales stories but also how she talks with her grandmother. They are bridges between generations. So I think the book the book is offering or arguing. That stories can draw people together even as they are like at very different points in their lives Similarly like a scene where else's talking to a woman who's a psychotherapist Who has you know? Lost people in her life and has developed a drinking problem and isn't really relating to people very well and else is trying to convince her to read Harry Potter. Because like how do you own thousands of books and not own Harry Potter is an argument? She gets in with. This adult will miss okay and like later in the book. People are both that woman as well as her dad or like trying to read those stories so that they can relate to this girl that is like that they value and want to feel valued There's a similar thing with another character and like them watching star wars together so it's like both the fairy tales of the book and the Real World Fictional stories. This character is interested in Are used as bridges between people as opposed to like standalone stories that we're going to spend time with sure So you talked a little earlier. About the perspective which is third person verging on first person sometimes And so the the qurqus reviews piece that I read about. This is is mostly positive like the reaction to this book is is largely positive but finding constructive criticism is a good place. I think so. You're trying to record a book. Podcast for like fifty five minutes. Kirk says the third person narrative voice when aligned with else's perspective reveals heartfelt innocent observations but when moving towards on missions. It can read as too clever by half. I think that's that comes up for me a lot. One an adult author is writing a kid voice. Sometimes sometimes the kid voice is kid. I is like childish in there like understanding or articulation of things even if they still get at the essential truth because of how perceptive children `red children have branded themselves as being no so like. But but then. But sometimes it's like. Oh Yeah you're this is clearly like a thirty two year old writing a seven year olds and this is why this information is here and the sounds like this. Yeah so let me give you two examples. I think that actually get to that before before I do that myself. there's A. There's a running thing where several elsa is frustrated by the older people in her life who don't understand technology and that doesn't that feels true to me it even as it might be backman having fun with technology himself the fact that a a seven year old would ask some old people that she's talking to to use their computer to look a word up on wikipedia and then be confused that the computer is two separate pieces and that it takes a minute to start like that's like a thing. It plays for good goof in the moment Her rely or familiarity with ipads and the her lack of credulity that anyone would use anything else like. It's that feels like a precocious seven-year-old to me. There's stuff that I think. Works as as humorous writing but I could see falling under that umbrella of like a clever author Okay so I'll give you those gambles one of the things that I like about. This book is the way it gives you like. Remember like it's almost like the western game because you have so many people living in this one apartment building that you need like quick character sketches and no specific traits to hang your hat on. So they're like everybody. Everybody gets to be like this. Is The guy who has a lot of mop? Yes this is the lady who wears pink all the guy who drinks coffee all the time and when he and his wife drink coffee in front of their dog Samantha. They don't say they're having coffee. They call it. A drink for grownups. 'cause they train that's just that's combining all my favorite stuff about coffee people and dogs. There's one so else's mom has remarried with this guy named George She is going to have another kid. Who else refers to as Haffey? Because it's going to be a half sibling. And she has very mixed feelings about it. Georgia's apparently a really lovely guy who everyone likes his superpower. Elsa loves superheroes as you talk about people having superpowers a lot But Elsa has refused to let herself like him because then she would be like giving in. And that's how she can express like some sort of agency here. But here's this. Here's I felt very seen and attacked in in this section on George Lucas. George lives with mom. And that's not always the easiest things because it means he also lives next door to granny. He has a beard and a very small hat is obsessed with jogging during which he insists on wearing his shorts top of his tracksuit he cooks in English and so when he's reading the recipes he says he says pork instead of flask. Granny never calls him George just loser which infuriates mom but Elsa knows what grains doing it she just wants Elza. No she's on else side no matter what the like. He has a beard and a small hat and is one of those dudes is obsessed with jogging. Like okay attack me Craig. They that's the description of Craig has definitely me and I think is missing. Is the bird wall strew but like that is a those. Observations play to an adult reader. Like if they play a joke they land for an adult reader. That Bachmann is talking to like around. Elsa it's not else's point of view that might be making those interesting or funny right similarly with this guy named Kent In the flat under Granny's live. Britt Marie. And can't they like owning things and especially likes telling you how much everything costs. He's hardly ever at home because he's an entrepreneur or a contra preneurs as he likes to joke loudly to people he doesn't know and if people don't laugh right away he repeats it even louder as if they're hearing is the problem and so like continuing. Our nickelodeon references is a real a real Mr Dink. It is a real dink so like against some of those humorous observations and character sketches come from an adult awareness of how people behave. That is perhaps just passed. What you might reasonably believe as else's precociousness but maybe you can just say Oh elsa conveying to me what she sees and an. I'm mostly worked so I can keep going. Yeah I liked those passengers. I pulled them because I thought they were funny. And like reveal a little bit of the sense of humor of the book but I could see someone going. Well that's not else's sense of humor. That's the authors and it's like intruding on what? I am getting out of it like. That wasn't my experience of reading it but I certainly could see how someone would experience at that shirt And I've alluded to the other people in the apartment building. 'cause like so the the setup of the novel there couple ticking clocks. There's the impending. Half Sibling is obviously granny's passing. Which happens early. And then it's like okay. We gotta do this adventure where we give these letters out And then there is also kind of a background drama of will. The tenants be able to form a lease association and by. I think that's what it's called in the book. They're gonNA buy the apartments from the owner of the building Okay and then put up one last show and save the old performing Arts Center. Yeah it feels like that. Experts very contentious because Kent is the one driving this and angling for it and he turns out to be a right. He'll let me tell you what But he is like driving it for what are clearly like money reasons like he's going to buy it and then he's just GonNa flip it because it's a good neighborhood And you learn over the course of the book that some of the people in the apartment probably couldn't afford to make that decision you also learn over the course the book that granny is the one who does own the apartment building so the like arc of are these people going to be able to stay together. Are they going to do they? Should they stay together? And how? What Role. Will Elsa play in that is like the other kind of macro level things so you do spend a lot of time kind of bopping between the different rooms in this apartment complex house thing? I'll admit I lost a little sense of like the physical reality of it and that may be the influence of the of the fairy tales idol is I had a hard time kind of keeping track of the geography even though that that did seem to be important to Elsa I e Okay Yeah you said that was just invalidated the point I was GonNa say I I was GonNa ask if that was if that was the point because I mean maybe two pe- to people who don't live in in an apartment complex like the point of it kind of is that it mostly looks the same right. Yeah Yeah I I'm just saying I kinda lost. There's a couple like I dare. I feel weird even calling them like actions sequences but there are series of physical action. That happened at times. That do seem to hinge on like relationships between spaces that I would lose the thread a little bit. So it's what you're saying is it's clear that the author has a picture director wants you to have a picture of this in mind but it was not conveyed in a way that you could at least follow. At least I had trouble with it. Perhaps because I was you know distracted by the magical realist language or I was. You know to invest in the emotional part. I'm not sure I didn't. I had a hard time. Kraken it the other characters that we meet our like. There's this guy name Alf. Who's a taxi driver? Whose whole thing isn't that. He can. At least that we see he does curse too much. He loves listening to opera. And it's just like Alf from the show Alf Ruth and he's the one of the first characters like the second wave of characters that like get involved in else's like quest like oh. Wow He knew granny in a way that Elsa never knew about and like is going to get revealed over the course of the book He's one of the first ones that like really has a like a More Iceberg under the under the water. Line what you know what I mean. That's how they What they say. And then they don't say we don't say it's only the tip of the iceberg anymore we say there's more iceberg under the waterline. And then there's a guy that Elsa starts out car calling the monster who's a scary man alone As I alluded to before. He's the kind of old man from alone character but she meets him he definitely has a heart of gold his clearly suffering from PTSD from some wars that he's been in And is incredibly like GERMOPHOBIC and stuff and he will like he travels around with her. She ends up giving him the name. Wolf heart because this character from the fairy tales that was modeled after him. And and the reason all these people actually live in this apartment building. There's a couple people that grew up in it and then the rest made their way there because of granny and she was this like world traveling successful surgeon who clearly did a lot of doctors without borders kind of warzone work and working with refugees and stuff so a number of the characters like had a tragic thing happen to them in a different part of the world and then she brought them back or at least invited them to stay and then they never left So the to me. There's like the the book as Fairy Tale if you look at the whole book as a fairytale it is not a fairy tale with a like binary morality It's not a like good guys. Bad guys is It it traffics in like heroes that defeat villains but then like every one of those stories takes a swerve until zone of of like moral gray. Well everybody everybody's hero sometimes or something. Yeah I think the like it's either that or a real life. Isn't that simple kid? Yeah and there's like A. There's a way that granny puts it that I think involves cursing that I'm not gonNA say on air but it's like sure should something about like most of the time people can be bad and your life is really just about making sure that you're good enough most of the time or like not being bad and it's a real like y'all need to run faster than the slowest when your pursued by a Predator. I'll have to be better than the words laws. I'll get to the let me make sure I come back to that like. Who are the worst people in this book? Because I think that's a weakness there's a weakness there but what I was because I guess I guess I'm wondering if there's an antagonised other than there is the big C there is yes okay The the thing about it as a fairy tale that I think mostly works is the serendipity of all these characters being connected and being like tied to granny in some way and them having these lives that are all like this person knows that person because they went on way to war and this person actually used to be in love with that person But then gave her up because they messed up and this person is really mean to else's mom because she actually thought that she was going to be able to like be a bigger part of her life and Everybody who is a jerk to someone else has a very like all. That's sad reason for being a jerk and not. There's not a single person in the Web. That doesn't have at least like one or two other nodes at least by the end of the book and that is very fairytale e be you know it's very it's fiction the fact that stuff is connected as often. You know it's not just coincidence. Right in a story it usually Riley as like somebody made it that way. Yeah and so like so. In a in a children's fairy tale where everything has meaning like all of these people being connected. That part of it is like a gift that granny is kind of giving her and like a very optimistic view of the world. I found a review by dude on his own site. Just this guy named Russ all berry who. I don't even know what his like I think he's just a guy with a blog is as a WHO also likes video games. But he wrote this. Russ all bear He wrote this review. That's Kinda Nice in is with my experience of the book. He says I am as a side note once again struck by the subtle difference in stories from cultures with a functional safety net. I caught my American brain puzzling through ways that some of the people in this book could still be alive and living in this apartment building since they don't seem capable of holding down jobs before realizing the story is not set in a brutal Hobson in jungle of all against all like the states. Wow that's that's a read in the existence of the safety net plays a role in this book apart from plays no significant role in this book apart from putting a floor under how far people can fall and yet it makes all the difference in the world and in some ways makes his plot possible so I just tossed here listen Khan counterpoint. Allowed the books that we've read on. This show can only exist if America is a brutal Hobbs in general. Yeah so wishes. Better for literature. I just Russ all bury his never thought I would discover that paragraph and I didn't know how much I needed to read it. Yeah after I read this book anyway. Yeah because I feel like often when we're reading books that are set in another country. It's like old times. Yeah it was very interesting to read a a modern European book but not a British book That was not like wrestling with a specific historical conflict or era. Like I feel like that's a lot of what we read for the show and and in fact you know for twenty thirteen twenty fifteen pretty zeitgeist e in its in its like young person has relative die and then goes on an adventure of sorts. Yeah shape yeah but also it. It talks about characters going off to wars plural and his very nonspecific. About what those are. It talks about The Wolf Heart. Is this refugee character from another country? And so it's it has a very generous Vibe towards people like migrant peoples in people who are displaced It does I think reference the soon Nami that hit India Okay because that is where the one woman like lost her family But it doesn't do it by name to says like a couple of years as this happened in a place not near here kind of thing. But other than that like the the realities of the world outside of this city and neighborhood are pretty like fuzzy on purpose I think to a positive effect so the thing that didn't really land for me Because Granny's Pretty Rad. I loved Elsa in this book. There's a scene where Elsa bangs on a dude's car with her textbook to to like make a mad that he beeped at her mom and traffic and else's like telling-off kids about whether or not she could wear spider man costume and like yelling at teachers else's just rules throughout this book There is an antagonist of sorts. Whose NAME IS SAM. You encounter him twice in the book before you know who he is and he is someone who attempts to take Elsa and you don't know who he is you don't know why he's doing what he's doing you just take her literally attempts to take her like Try to take her like from a playground near school at one point. He's and she is saved. And she is saved by the monsters slash wolf heart at that point and then similarly at granny's funeral she she like she can't handle the funeral and I will say that a lot of what I think was hitting me in this book. Both in like in my gut and also in my head was like in ways to the two things in ways that I was conscious of and in ways that I think are only like hitting me as I think about the book and Digest. The book is like I lost my grandmother. Who spent her entire life in my house when I was in eighth grade and so the the relationship between Elsa and her grandmother isn't like one to one with mine like losing someone like that who occupied a different role in your life It specifically being a grandmother and it being a unique relationship that definitely felt different from other relationships that you had or new. And there's a lot of Elsa that I'd just very personally identify with and so like that. Part of the book is very moving deserve frustrating To encounter this Sam character who like Elsa runs out of her grandmother's funeral because she can't handle it shares too many people there who apparently knew her grandmother and like I distinctly remember there being one or two people at my grandmother's funeral who else who is that person. Why do they know she is? That seems wrong And so she runs out of there. She runs out into the graveyard and this man tries to take her And I think Wolf Heart saves her again. I don't really remember that gets resolved but the man gets away Then we need to debrief on this man is he. Is the father of the another tenant the boy with a syndrome As Elsa Calls Him who is a is a boy a year younger than her. He does not speak For whatever reason And His mom is caring for him on her own and he had an abusive father who had dealt with anger issues and substance abuse issues and he turns out to be the son of one of the pairs of tenants And there's like a very like thin sliver of logic where because they like got away from him with the kid was young enough he doesn't quite like know what the kid looks like a few years later and because Elsa has a similar haircut. He actually thinks she's is like okay. And that's it's not especially nefarious. I guess well. It is NOT SPECIFICALLY NEFARIOUS TO ELSA. It is various real. Okay yes that's what I mean And I think what didn't work for me about it is that it felt like it wasn't it was it was It was like a glancing storyline against else's it like it was an antagonise. That wasn't actually about her quest. If that makes sense yeah I was GonNa say it feels like maybe inserted to to bend the dramatic arc of the book a Little Bit. S isn't especially well integrated into a book that otherwise seems pretty internally because the consistent right the build up to the the most climactic scene in the book the tensest scene in the book is the final attempt at this guy to take Elsa and The worse you know saves her in a very heroic fashion other characters who have been against her. Who could have like made it harder for people to help her have not done that? And and been kind to her along the way. So there's like many payoffs but it doesn't seem like the culmination of else's relationship with her granny. It doesn't seem like the culmination of her understanding her mom. Her Dad better scenes with her mom and her or really gorgeous and really heartwarming. And then this really feels like it was put in there to give some sort of suspense and like adventure. Anxiety to the book They're kind of like what will happen next when that isn't really what the book is strongest at I do think the way that Bachmann like reintegrates that plot into the epilogue of the book where it Kinda does alike. Here's where everyone winds up. Sorta way His parents do go like visit him in whatever facility or or you know place that he has taken after this event where I don't know I don't think it's just a jail I think it's something else And there it is very clear that like those characters believe that they have to do good by this person because he is a human and deserves basic goodness and that the book is very aware and else's very aware of the tension of what you do with like no that person harms people. How do I feel about that? And what do I do about that? And it's actually one of things like granny is connected to that person and she apologizes for her own misgivings about that person So the book treats it with a very nuanced lens which is nice and is actually part of what the books very good at. But the like. Here's a man who's here steel elsa else's it's like it doesn't feel connected to the central you know mysteries or stakes for the characters And it's Weird I. I don't know I haven't felt I haven't read a book in a while. That felt like it had something so dislike kind of like out of place like it's almost like a garden and there's just like one flower that's just like at a completely different angle like maybe it's like a different plants and like it's a fine plan. It just doesn't belong here. Short messing up the whole aesthetic. Yeah this is like the Uganda. Despite not owning a switch or playing animal crossing gone to very animal crossing place with this this man. I mean it's all. Is there gardening outside animal? Crossing ninety real life might be based on the mechanics of animal crossing. Actually yeah I mean yes. That's true all things flow from Mr Nintendo. Jim Tanto it's true. This is a fun book. I did really like it. I I could see how folks would bounce off it and I could see how and I personally found like as I said the same thing a little underwhelming but it is GonNa read this book right now. There's a lot of grief in it and so just be careful but I I think Similar felt with a death in the family. I think it's an interesting book for where you might put some specific griefs or find some ways to like think about how other people deal with it If in and again I I don't want to oversell. How like the book being dislike a sad book it's actually very And and charming but yeah it's a real Israel. There's a thing he says a couple times. Where like there's a phrase? There's too much reality for an eight year. Old is like a phrase that happens a couple of times when yeah? That's yeah I can see that. When when the adults like lean heavy on a real story that they are explaining to Elsa and she kind of gets fuzzy and loses some of the details and she just says there's too much with the narrator says that's too much reality for eight year old and like yeah. I get it I get it. It did have Dow thirty minutes ago. It did have a hey arnold building value to it because there's that episode and I was going to bring it up but then we move past it and so I wasn't going to force to go back to fair enough. There was an episode of. Hey Arnold where? Arnold has to collect the rent from each of the tenants who live in the building that his grandparents are like the landlords of and he gets caught up in like a bunch of short little stories at which is because they're a bunch of tenants and I think Hey Arnold was eleven minute like each twenty two minute. Episode was two eleven minute stories and to do that at eleven. Minutes is pretty. That's pretty fast. But yeah that that. That is what came to mind when you were doing your descriptions especially once I landed on Arnold's grandparents as the as my sort of Canon for herger her granny. Yeah let me just go out on a quote about Granny Talking you know. We hear about how she was this warzone surgeon. Did all this wonderful work. But one day someone decided she was too old to save. Lives EVEN BELLSA. Quite strongly suspects what they really meant by. Two old was too crazy. Granny refers to this as society and says it's only because everything has to be so bloody politically correct. Nowadays that she's no longer allowed to make incisions in people and that it was really mainly about society getting so bleeding fussy about the smoking ban in the operating theaters and who could work under these sorts of conditions. It's grainy is out there to tell it like it is and not suffer. Fools an Elsa picks up on that and it's it's pretty endearing she should start a radio shock jock. Your Ram grants yeah. Granny would eat that. Roll up if she could Thanks me tell you about this book Andrew Tell me about. I don't know that we're really solve the mystery of what Susan likes about this book but probably all the same things that I liked is what say her. Yeah Susan Leszno send us an email over potted dot com season and let me know if I got it right Twitter DOT COM over to facebook dot com slash over to pot of the websites that you can use to tell me if I'm or wrong Thanks to Neil Meghan Danny Me Michelle. Barb Heather Joshua Marta Ebony Mike Anthony Kyle Amber Terry many more. We did one of our what. You're reading threads in the last week. So check those feeds out if you need some book recommendations aside from what we're eating which is clearly what you should be reading Andrew folks want to know more about the show or should they go overdo podcasts dot coms that Web site. We have links to apple. Podcasts and Google play. We're also available on spotify. Stitcher anywhere else. You can find podcasts. in lieu of our regular SPIEL. I think we wanted to talk about one. Larger thing that we're going on the on the website Going forward so we have had for a long time like since we started we've had links to Amazon to buy the books that we are reading and have read so that you know people who listen to an episode then WanNa get a book can do that and we get a tiny cut of that but we want to do. Our part is like an independent podcast that is supported by listeners to support independent bookstores. Yeah that are local to you. So we are starting to Put up links to bookshop dot org pages for the books that we are reading. That is a site that basically blinks you up with local independent bookstores to get the books that we are eating. Yeah you can still buy the books online. But you can designate. You know affiliates towards local bookstores or help you find in your local bookstore With a lot of them are having time right now. So what better? Time to start supporting them if you aren't already So we thought this would be like it. Would it would dovetail well with our values and it would help the wider book community. That's the goal. Anyway Yeah Yeah They're e-book solution is not like totally ideal. And we're still figuring out what we're GONNA do you. They're like if we're GONNA keep putting Amazon links up alongside the bookshop links or if we're going to go and look into like Kobo or barnes and Nobles Nook or like some other like e reader ecosystem that still something that we're figuring out on our end but the bookshop. Things should be done this week. We have a shot page. That will put up. That has all the books for all the episodes. We've done a few curated lists for some series and some other things. But then if you're going through yeah if you're going through the back catalogue. You should find the website on on the website. Yes specifically you should find links to every do all the books that we could find on bookshop Which is a way to both support? Our if you want but also to support local bookstores and bookshops mission which is Great Again if a book doesn't have that We weren't able to do that. And you might see some other links that we are hoping to add. We're trying to be flexible. And trying to put it in time to make sure that people can find books where they wanna find books and not just resort to one big corporate organism. That's it that's it all right. Everybody Next week I am going to be Reading Orlando biography by Virginia Woolf. Um We've also at some point this month we've got the hell boys episode going up that gets us to the end of Paradiso. That'll come out at the end of the month. Take a look for that. Take a look out for. That is what I look out for that. That's just the rest of the icebergs underwater guys. Take a look out for that iceberg. It's under the waterline. Everybody thanks for listening to our ninety s nickelodeon cartoon Fan and until we get your next week. Try Be happy A that was a hit gum podcast.

Elsa bangs Frederick Bachmann Andrew Yellow Granny Craig US UK Susan Leszno John Green Book Palmar Hey Arnold Britain Marie Bachman George She America Harry Potter twitter Grainy nickelodeon Wolf Heart jared
The Midnight Library Book Club

Bad On Paper

58:15 min | 4 months ago

The Midnight Library Book Club

"Yeah hi everyone. Welcome back to battle abra podcast. Grace atlit and i'm back freeman and today is book club day. We read the midnight library by matt haig and this was. I think it was both of our favorite books of two thousand twenty one so far or at least one of them one of them. I don't know what's your favorite bucket. Twenty twenty one. I don't know who this is. This is that. I wasn't prepared to answer that question but i don't want to just i don't wanna say definitively this one lady three months in today is important for two other reasons to what today is important because it is the second to last episode that we're recording in person before you move to charleston it is and it's important because it's the first one that you're in charge grace's needs to learn how to use tech setup so that she can do it when we're in charleston so if the auditors really bad it's my fault so if this episode never never goes live. It's because something happened. We've been recording for fifty nine seconds. And i think i'm doing a great job. What's your high this week besides me leaving. That's my getting getting so my high is that we we finished recording season. Three romcom pods we. We don't altogether. I want to say it was probably around forty hours so we've been hard at work the past few weeks and not that in past seasons we felt bad about how it sounds like. I just feel extra good about how everything sounded. I'm proud that we made it. I don't know. I feel. I just have all sorts of feelings. It's like it's kind of like summer camp camp. I feel like i did go to camp. I went to running camp. And i feel like i understand this feeling because i've been around like movie sets and stuff and have seen the casket really close in that whole kind of thing. Yeah i mean it was only eight days but it's like you hang out with these people every day. Intense earned it for eight days. It's like really intense. So you're like on zoom for hours a day and then it's over and you're like you know you're making this weird thing you're in your own world and you have your own jokes about stuff so i it's i'm really pathetically sad that it's over. Well maybe you can bring them all back for another season. Maybe i mean we haven't brought characters back yet. Maybe you need to start doing that. I don't know what would happen. I don't know how to write that. And then the other thing is that we've been getting so many compliments from both the actors and then like their managers and agents about how much will first of all bunch of the actors had said how much they loved the script and also somebody like complimented us on being directors which is something we've totally made up with no training we were doing and so to hear somebody say that they you're doing. A good job was just so meaningful on this job that you taught yourself how to do right. And then hearing their managers and agents say that they had they really enjoyed working on the project and that it was a good experience for everyone just makes me feel so happy and proud. I love that part of you. I just feel so mushy right now. That's that's a good feeling. That's the best word. I can come up with to describe it yeah. I'm so excited for it to go live yeah. I think it's going to go. Live the first monday in june so i think it's june seventh the first monday okay. I can't wait till you can share some of the big news of a product. Because i feel like there's just like you guys are so big time. Oh my god. I have a story for you for off the air about some hilarious thing that happened. I can't wait what's your high. My high is that this is my. This is my last weekend in new york which is more of a low. But i'm just excited for what is ahead with this weekend so i have a friend visiting and Going to dinner with family tonight than going to dinner with you and alex and john On tomorrow night. And who's the sixth person. The sixth person. Yeah simon simon's coming. Yeah okay yeah i just. Alex said i've not only tax. alex asked. She was like it was five and she was like. Can you make it six. And i was like who's the six personage by and she never answered me. And so i was just like. Yeah so we're all going to lola. We're not okay. Am i know where we're going. I don't know if you're allowed. So i'm just gonna tell you. Hey hayes it's a surprise. Okay cool so anyways. I've always fun plans. It's my last weekend here I'm really sad to leave. I'm really excited for what's ahead. It's like a lot of weird emotions. And i don't know if i'm fully processing. I feel like i'm not fully processing it. You'll leave in chase friday. You leave wednesday thursday or you leave thursday. I pack wednesday. And then i'm staying in an airbnb and then finding out thursday. I have no way processed it. It's so weird. I don't feel like this. Is i feel like i'm going on a long vacation. I was just gonna say. I don't even feel like process that on thursday. I feel like oh process it in a few weeks. Yeah when you don't come back for vacation. I know when you come and visit me. Yeah maybe yeah we hang up my pool. Oh my god that sounds so nice. A he. Only what about lows to quote john mayer. My body is not a wonderland when you to it. I just i haven't exercised junk food. I will say at least my sleep is then good but in order to get this done i have just let every personal hygiene collapse around me and it happens. You've been working forty hours a week on top of our podcast on top of your day job right so you have a lot going on and i would like to say that i have a plan to fix it but the truth is i don't so here we are even always pick it back up. I've told myself. I'm going to start exercising once i move on. I'm going to have a gym in my building. So that'll help. I feel like as a shorted her step. I i need to eat a vegetable today. That's a good one just have you should make. Is that the delay kadarshian kale the white pizza cal. I don't see myself cooking myself. A skillful of anything today. I i need to procure of vegetable from outside my own kitchen okay. You can do that. I feel good about that. You me too. Yeah get some vegetables delivered. I've had no vegetables today either. What's your low Probably feeling like also just. I haven't exercised in a bit and the moving stuff like i have not done enough stuff and i it all gets on your your having the movers. Paki right. yeah so. What do you need to do in advance of them coming. Just all the weird setup stuff like setting up my gas and my electric and my water and canceling my internet here just like all these like. I just have a list. You have been chipping away at it. I see you also have three bags of of trash over their clothes that i'm selling. Oh yeah so i dunno. Everything's just kind of all over the place. I don't feel bad. I just like. Is this going to pull this off. You don't seem that stressed honestly. I'm not they seem very chill about it makes me nervous. I feel like i should be less all going to. Johnston is when monday. Yeah i think it might be stay tuned friends. You'll you'll have to wait and see we're recording. I got on monday. So we'll find out in real time. Yeah you will wait. We get into the buck. Yes we should but first we have a little bit of a trigger warning so this book deals with suicide in the very beginning of the book. are plot summary. We'll touch on this but our conversation is really geared around the idea of regret. Yes and if you or someone you know is dealing with suicidal thoughts. Help is available. You can reach out to the national suicide prevention hotline at one eight hundred two seven three eight two five five and we'll also put that number in the show notes. You didn't catch that. Yes let's do a quick plot summary to catch people up and then let's talk about this book this book so the book is about nora. Who's a thirty five year old woman living in her hometown of bedford england. She's single after calling off her wedding two days before the event she's just been fired from her job in a music shop where she's been working for twelve years. Her mom has recently died and she's not speaking with her brother and she decides to end her life in when she does. She wakes up in the library. Staff by mrs elm. The librarian from her old school. Mrs allen explains to her between life and death is a library and every book provides a chance to try another life. You could've lived and see how that life would have been different. If she had made other choices she can experience any one of these lives and if she really wants to live one of them hard enough she can stay there forever so the first life she chooses as one where she still together with her ex. They've opened a country pub and she lasts in that life for less than half an hour finding that dan is drinking too much public money trouble and he also recently cheated on her so next she decides to live a life where she went with her best friend izzie to live in australia. Only to find out that is he had died a month after they arrived in a car accident then she decides to try the life where she never gave the swim team as a child. She wakes up in a hotel room about to deliver a speech at a conference about inspiring success on wikipedia. She looks herself up and finds out that she is an olympic gold. Medalist eventually retiring from swimming and becoming a professional sports commentator in this life. her dad is still alive. He had died of a heart attack a child in her life and then her brother is her business. Manager despite the outward trappings of success in this life nor gets the sense that she's incredibly lonely in this life so after this she goes to live a life where she's a glaciologist. That is the word. I've only seen written never set out loud. I'm so glad you got that word who don't okay great. So she wakes up on a boat and spall barred this. This paragraph is not nice. Which is an of islands off of norway sweden somewhere nordic and while she's there she goes on an expedition where she is the spotter assigned to watch out for polar bears by while the rest of the team gather samples so after hours. She comes face to face the polar bear and faced with death. She realizes that she didn't actually want to die. So the bear eventually goes away. And that night hugo who's another person aboard the ship and he confronts her about being different than yesterday and he tells her that he's like her he has also tried many lives so for hugo it's video store and not a library and it's manned by his uncle felipe who died many years ago and worked in a video store. He's tried nearly three hundred lives. This is the longest he's been in one five days in his travels. He's method other people like them and he calls them sliders. Most of them are in their thirties. Forties or fifties. All with deep regrets about their lives. He's always happy. In his current state chasing his curiosity about other lives. he describes himself as happily in limbo so then him and nora have unsatisfactory sex and She slips out of this life and into the library so next. She tries life where she stayed in her band labyrinths instead of quitting like she didn't her route life so she comes into this life mid concert at an arena in brazil and she and her band are internationally famous and again. It's not all it's cracked up to be so in this life. She finds out that her brother has overdosed and on returning to the library. She realizes that every dream. She's tried so far has been someone else's dream for her swimming for her dad. The band was her brother stream. The pub was dan's stream and australia was busy stream so she decides to trial life where she worked at an animal shelter instead of music store. This life is simple and she can tell by the way that people treat her that she is a kind person. She's dating a coworker. Who's sweet but slightly. Bland guy named dylan and she can't quite muster any excitement for this life even if it seems like alternate nora was quite happy with it then. She tries a life where she runs a vineyard. This kicks off a spree of different lives. None of them being fit so nor begins to feel lost in that she's tried. All there is to try and so finally she decides to try life where she said yes to a coffee date with a kind man that she'd refused in her route life because she was still together with her ex. So in this life her and ask are married and have a child and she settles into this life staying for weeks and wonders if this is going to be the one that sticks but she somewhat reluctantly ends up back in the library and this time the library is breaking down so she's trying to escape the library which is now on fire and she finally rights. I am alive down into a book which wakes her into her route life. She wakes up in her route life into her neighbors and asked him to call an ambulance. Her brother comes to her at the hospital and they make up on the drive. Her brother tells him about the man that he met at the gym. But he's not sure if he's even gay nor urges him to ask him out He's been married to him in multiple of the parallel lives. The book ends with nora. Going to visit the real mrs alum. Who's in a care home. Mrs l. is pleased to see her. She's been mulling with chess with and nora offers to come and visit every day. So let's take a really quick at break before we get into discussion about this book and today's episode sponsored by better help better help offers professional therapy online via chat video and phone so you can talk to a licensed counselor from the comfort of your couch just speaking myself. This has been a hard year mental health wise There are just so many contributing factors. There's a pandemic there's quarantine. there was the election. I'm and then just add all the little individual stressors that each of us have on a day to day basis. So if you've been thinking about therapy. I think that this is incredible It can be really overwhelming though to choose a therapist so you decide if you want to try therapy but how do you find a therapist. How do you know what they specialize in. and what. if after all of that work it turns out. You don't like your therapist and is not a match. I love better help. Because they're solving all of these problems. They offer private affordable online counseling. When you need it without ever having to leave your couch have counselors where specialized in everything from depression stress and anxiety to relationships trauma family conflicts. Lgbt matters grief and self esteem issues you just go to their site and you fill out a simple online questionnaire that will assess your needs where they ask you about your age relationship status past experience with therapy and what you're looking to address and then they match you with your own license professional therapist so you can start talking to your therapist with under twenty four hours. You can message them any time and get timely thoughtful responses plus you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions best of all. It is more affordable than traditional online counseling and financial aid is available and they're committed to facilitating really great matches. So if your first counselor is not a good fit they make it really easy and free to change counselors and anything you share with them as always confidential so we want you to start living a happier life today as a listener you'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting better help dot com slash bad on paper join over one million people taking charge of their mental health again. That's better help. H e l p dot com slash bat on paper okay. Let's talk about the book. Yeah so. I wanted to talk first about how you heard about this book. And what were your initial impressions before you read it as a trick question. No it's you told me about this book. You brought it down to me and told me that. I had to stop everything else. I was reading. Read this book. that is correct. I guess i do the answer to that. Well the reason that. I put it in the outline is because i so i'd heard about this book. It came out in august twenty twenty and i'd heard about it and i read the copy on the flapper or whatever wherever it was the description and i remember specifically thinking that i was like i'm not really interested in this and then at the end of twenty twenty Good reads does. They're good reads choice awards and millions of people. Maybe not millions. Thousands of people vote on their favourite book in this one one in the fiction category and it one against anxious people by frederick bachmann men. Did you read that. Yes and i loved. I haven't somewhere and i love all of his writing. I i loved it. And i was i. It is a slow start wilson but Loved it definitely sick. But i was surprised that this other book that i hadn't heard of any kind of written off one and it made me really intrigued to check it out and so i went into it with no real. No real context other than that so many people liked it and it ended up release. Apprising me how did it surprise you. I'm because i knew exactly what was happening because you told me i don't know it. Just i think it surprised me and a couple of days. So i while i tend to have a bias against books where it is by a male author writing a female protagonist. Yeah i feel like you don't really read books by men. I do once in a while. I mean i read anxious people. That's true yeah. I don't really excitement to be honest. Like mostly i read cheesy murders written by woman. Yeah but i specifically don't like when men right yeah main characters and i usually find them a little contrived. I felt like he did a really good job with this me too. I was like a manner this like. He's really understands. Women me too so i went into it. I with that bias. And then i also at the beginning. I wasn't really sure where it's going. And it was like a little bit of a downer. I was like oh. I don't know how i feel about this because you know i can be. I like that book once in a while. But i have to be like in a very specific mood. Sad book like catch me by surprise. Yeah totally be. I i just. I wasn't really sure about this than i. i read it. I started on new year's eve. And i finished on new year's day and i was just really surprised by how lovely it was and it just like it just felt like this like perfect little book. Yeah when i heard satisfied. I was so satisfied. I felt like i read it in like a day or two. I i loved this book so much. And i feel like when i heard the premise that it sounded really sad but i found the book to be really hopeful. I did too. I did too. Well what was your main takeaway from the book mine. Was that you that you're right where you belong I feel like so many times. It's so easy to look back on your life. Well if i just did this one thing right like everything would be different. Would be better and this book really shows that. That's not the case and that you're right where you need to be and that kind of like the universe just works in magical ways. I felt like it was really hopeful and just taught me that taught me. I mean i know that regret is futile. You can't do anything to change the past. But in this case like nora was right where she should be because all those things that she thought would have made her life better if she had just stuck them out like marrying that guy or sticking with swimming. They wouldn't make her happy. Yeah what about you. I don't disagree with your takeaway. Biden was like kind of a slightly different spin on it. So one thing. I wrote down with something that mrs elm says in the book and she says it's hard to predict what will make us happy and one thing that i think was so much easier to see through this character and through her experiences. Were that. it's so easy to regret any of these big choices that you make but any major path that you chose differently would have its own problems. It's not just that it was going to be magical uncomplicated. Like for instance. When she was an olympic swimmer that came with its own challenges. And i feel like there's this tendency to glorify if you feel like you made a bad choice how idyllic the alternative would have been no that would have had its own set of problems and challenges and it might have ended up just as you might. It might have ended up worse. Yeah and. I feel like that's something that's really hard for me to remember in my own life sometimes versus seeing it with a character. You're really obviously. Yeah and then. I also really loved That kept saying another one of her motto is was never never underestimate the big impact of small things. Yes we're ended up not being the big things that made more happier changed the course of her life because those all had their own other major problems. It was a little things. Yeah that too. And i really liked that like about those are the things that some things off in a different direction rather than those big life changing. Yes it made me. Think of like the notion we've talked about this. A lot throughout the pandemic is like micro joys and these little things that like bring you joy. Like i feel like i've gotten so in doing with what little thing is gonna like. Make my day better make me happy are what i was talking to a friend last weekend and she was saying we're talking about dating and she was saying she was talking about regrets in that she hadn't played a huge emphasis on dating in the past and she finally felt like she was ready in going into twenty twenty and then the pandemic happened and she was like i really feel like i have wasted a year of my life and she was talking about also how. She's freezing her eggs and she was like almost saying how she felt silly and i was like well. You know like who's to say that you you wouldn't have wasted your life in a different way if not for the pandemic like you could have been in the wrong relationship or you could have gone on dates that we're all terrible. You know didn't pan out in any way shape or form where it's not just say that the alternative was necessarily finding the right person and falling in love. And that's what you missed out on. Yeah so i don't know it just feels it just feels so this book. Just feel so. Applicable of this book is a warm. I love this book. It truly is so i kind of thought the best way to talk about it would be to kind of talk about the different lives that she chooses and kind of what we took away from it and and what we thought about them. Yes does that sound. I thought that. I think this is the best way to tackle a book so the first life is where she's married to dan who was her She was engaged to him. It was like her. Long term boyfriend fiance And running a country pub. So the first thing i have say is i am. I truly didn't get over this. Both when i read the book or when i reread the book the idea of just popping into a life mid stream and some of them are weird weirder than others. This one was weird for me and the other one that was weird for me was when she was a swimmer and she goes like popping. It had to give that speech. Oh i mean that was weird in the australia life. She wakes up at a pool. Can you imagine yes. Just like coming to underwater. Yeah ehrlich choking. Gosh how terrifying that be. There was definitely some anxiety some secondhand exile in this book for me in her having to come into these lives and piece together who she was and what she was supposed to be doing. Yeah i just thought that was a really interesting quirk. Or factor of this book. That i loved reading and thinking about but part about this specific life with john that just oh my god it just it was such a good reminder. It really hit me where. I feel like with past relationships. It's really easy to paint over the small annoying things about somebody about your relationship and only focus on the big things. Yeah or the good things and just like think only about like. Oh it could've worked out 'cause like we're so great together because you're just not thinking about all the bad stuff. Yeah and i i. It was so well told him this when she goes into that life and then she finds that it's the little things about day on that are annoying. He gets in bed and he puts on a podcast and she's like i forgot he did that. Yeah she's so annoyed. Well it's also the bigger things like it turns out. He's like drinking way too much and cheating on her. But you know she couldn't have predicted the cheating thing that was kind of just a factor of the parallel lives and she. It sounded like she like newer wasn't particularly surprised by the drinking things. But i just. I really felt for her when she was really jarred by the little things that she'd forgotten about and she was like. Oh yeah there's a lot of reasons. We're not compatible. Not just the yeah. I think that having like that time and distance you would put this in the outline but it makes it. I think it had been really cathartic to go back into a relationship. Have some distance totally of it and realize oh my god no. This is totally totally. It'd be so cathartic because you know in normal a normal situation you wouldn't just like pop back into the relationship to just be like just as much as live together for for day yet. Just a gut check that this is still bad. Yeah but then in her next life on my gosh with the cat but the cat and we didn't talk about this in the outline but this is just like a really tiny moment where she her first choices. okay. I'm going to go back and be with a guy that i broke it off with. And then the next thing that she does her cat had just died and or woman to like she was really just in it. Yeah and so. She asks to go into a life where he's still alive and he ends up dying anyway because what happened. He did he get cancer. I can't remember had a heart condition. So in route life she discovered him outside and it was assumed that he had been run over by a car but it turned out he had a heart condition and so she was She was carrying regret that she was a bad pet owner. And like the lesson here was that it would've happened anyway. It had to do with her This was so gutting. I know i know i was thinking about tyrian a lot in that in that life and i loved that she asked mrs why she didn't just tell her and mrs allen tells her sometimes the only way to learn as to live yes. I loved that quote. I know me too. What about when she went to australia. This wooden freely gutted me this one really hit me. So she She went to australia to with izzy her best friend. They had always dreamed of doing this together and she finds out. She's like this really depressed like she's doing drugs and just like seems like a total different version of herself and then she finds out is he died. Yeah this really hit me. Because i feel like the lesson in the first one was some of the things that you think might make you. Happy probably won't like you have romanticized this or or whatever and the second lesson was with the cat was that you know some of the things are going to happen anyway and then this one was like. Hey if you chose differently. There's all these freak things that have caused by your actions whatsoever. That could also happen. And i guess this one because it's so hard to think of think causing effective your own actions so not like. Oh and then. I'm going to go do this differently. In the my best friend who i went to australia with is going to die. Yeah broke my heart because yeah it's not just your decisions also if the unit really like you have so little control like you better just like enjoy your life because you're not in charge. Yeah yeah what about the life where she was a professional swimmer. Okay so. I was so excited for this. I was like this is going to be a really good life. Like she wakes up. And she's in this fanzine and she's this like retired olympic athlete. Find her dad's alive. Then we find out her mother is. I thought that was really crushing. Somebody who's my. My mom passed away when i was a teenager like the interplay of her family relationships and who was alive and who dead and various lives because in in some her brother is dead in her. Mom is dead even though she is dead in her life but she died along young ago and then in this one her. Data's live when she gets to talk to him again. And i was just like who. Yeah i cried at that part. I don't know and then she's close with her brother. Who's managing her. I thought well. I thought this life was really interesting because she wakes up and has to give a speech a four minute speech to a thousand people like what would you give a speech on. I don't know. I would like i feel like i would be booed off stage. I mean she often early the life immediately. I i usually get out of this one. What was interesting in. this one is earlier. She'd looked up. Ted talk of herself. I think my route would be like have just studied that as hard as possible and try to replicate the speech. I saw myself give yeah versus. She ends up getting a completely different speech kind of inspired by what she's learned and had them in library so far. Yeah but i can't imagine something more terrifying than like it's like it's like a bad dream where you go to class and you're not wearing clothes and you have to be. I felt like. I was in australian dream as as i listened to not listen as i read that chapter but this one was so i don't know i mean the lessons are so obvious. But they hit me so hard where it was like. Hey in this. When she's the most extensively successful she's also deeply unhappy in this life so like money fame success. Those aren't going to be the things that make you happy either. Yeah what about likely sala gist. Well so i thought this one was so interesting because she first of all she's in fall barred which i had heard about if you follow on instagram sharon says so. Do you follow her armor. If i still follow her might have stopped falling anyway. She knew who she she is though she was obsessed with fall barred at one point and had either q. and a. or an alive with somebody who was a glaciologist. Okada wine and we have to say this. I really don't feel confident in that word. So i i. While i was like a little proud that i'd heard of it before this book But forward sound so interesting. It's own so interesting. i wasn't very interested in. Oh you weren't. It's like the northernmost town on earth. I would like it seemed really cold and i was ready for the chapter to be over. I'm sure it is look. How cute it is. I'm showing a picture of all these like a rainbow a frame houses. Okay those are really cute. They're really really cute instagram. But very cold cute right. I was gonna look ups. Fall barred facts and i really fell down the job so i don't have any small barred facts to share with you but i will say like go look at the wikipedia of svalbard like the. It just sounds really interesting. yeah. I think that's where the i'm going to butcher this. But it's like the world seed bankers or something where they have like a sample of every single seed of every plant or crop sense. Yeah in case case. They apocalypse happens. I don't know. But i think that's their cool where you weren't interested in this. No i i didn't really care. I thought this is cool. I thought this is like the fantasy fulfillment of being a little kid. And like saying i want to go do this thing. Yeah and actually going to do it. Yeah no i agree with that. That was cool. Where would you be today if you had pursued the career you wanted when you were eleven years old. I don't know when i was. When i was a little like dream wants to be a house painter. That's my favorite. So i would have been a house name. What do you think you would wear overalls. Coveralls for her for sure. I think you'd like you cover all q maybe for your birthday next year. I'll get you some. I want like. I want my name. Bread like gas station kinds. yeah But then what. By the time. I was in middle school. I think i wanted to be a lawyer so it wouldn't be very interesting. I didn't have this fantastical thing that i wanted to be like. I don't know. Do you wanna be all over the place. I wanted to be a painter. I wanted to be a jewelry designer. I wanted to be a psychologist. That i wanted to be a writer then. I wanna be a fashion buyer. Which then i did. It was the weirdest thing that you wanted to be. What would be. Your fall barred glaciologist. I don't think any of minor really weird. I did want to be a veterinarian. At one point until i realized like i hate blood fair so maybe i've made me move that back. Yeah and i also thought this. I don't know how i felt about this section. Where so up until this point. We're kind of just living theoretically and not really going deep into the physics or metaphysics of how the multi verse theory or like. How would exists teac in this one. We meet hugo who then explains to us lake there is like the schrodinger cat fang and it was very much above my head scientifically but about how this multi verse theory would work ready like that or did you dislike that i it was like chapter was one of my least favorites. I don't know why. But i didn't like the hugo plotline and this reminded me of a little was a map of tiny perfect things. All yes we're you find this this person who's like the finally you all. Yes except that was cuter. Because i didn't really like hugo's character latino so when nora sleeps with hugo. That was the only moment during this book. Where i was like. Yeah this female character was written by a man fairness and literally no impetus. There was no lead up. And i guess i mean i guess if you were just on a road trip through the universe like what's to stop you from sleeping with anyone. There's no consequences to anything and maybe you were just like might as well might as well but there was literally no lead up to it like he was just like. Let me tell you about the multi-diverse. And i'm like you. And then she was like well sleep with them. Yeah and it wasn't good and it wasn't good but i feel like if a woman wrote it. There would be a reason their beer. She would've thought to attracted to him in some way to act on it but the just literally zero reason like man did write this. Amanda yeah yes. That's really funny. I didn't think about that until you said it. Only the second time. Through where. I read that because i remember them sleeping together. And every other instance where. She's in a relationship her when she's with somebody there's a reason and with this it was just like no uh-huh okay. What about When she stays with the band o. I was waiting for this life cited about this life i was too and i really liked it. Because she'd quit the band right as they got signed and so there was like a sent a sense of possibility of what could have been. Yes and i thought this one was also interesting. Because there's this. I always like when there's a show within a show yes. Do you know what i mean. I know there was this actor that she was obsessed with ryan. What was bailey ryan. Something i forget what his name was and she. She'd seen movie posters for him and other lives or she'd like seen some of us little crush on and in this life she was dating him. Yes i love that. And the just the letdown of him being kind of mass and like not a great person. I i love to see that. And i thought it was so i don't know what it just loved how that was woven through. Yeah i don't know i. I really liked this life. And i think in this life she she kind of has her realization and in a podcast interview. I wrote this down. She says it's so easy trapped. In just the one life to imagine that times of sadness or tragedy or failure fear or result of that particular experience that is a byproduct of living a certain way rather than simply living that sadness is intrinsically part of the fabric of happiness. You can't have one. Without the other. Of course they come in different degrees and quantities but there is no life where you can be in a state of sheer happiness forever. I love that me too. I feel like that was another big takeaway from this book. Where you know you can optimize any number of things but there's no life that is truly nothing's without happiness. Yeah actually kinda surprised now that i got it sadness. That's what i meant. yeah. I was like without happiness. That's what i to slip now. That i'm saying this. I'm kind of surprised that there wasn't a life. I mean i guess maybe the one where she was working at the animal shelter where she like was like i wanna go see what it's like to go be a buddhist monk or something. Yeah i felt like the animal shelter was the first hour. She just picks this really simple life and realizes how far she'd be with that. Yeah yeah but i feel like you know like a a buddhist life or something is meant to optimize happiness. Yeah yeah and so trying for that. The other thing about this life that was terrifying was being onstage needing to sing songs you know yes just like the speech terrify another stress stream it kind of that element of this book kind of feels like the feeling i get when i watched curb your enthusiasm where like. I'm so uncomfortable for this person. You have nothing to do with us. But i'm so ungoverned yes secondhand anxiety. Yeah yeah it also seems like she was a bad person in this episode like she had a bad reputation. The ice on the way people were reacting to her like she wasn't a nice person was also interesting to see which lives and how she can intuit which lives. She was kind or unkind in lonely or yacht lonely in based on only like a slice of the experience. And what should he think to like. Wake up and realize like in this life you're a bad person and people just don't like you. Yeah i also in this life and in the life in where she was a swimmer. It seemed like there. There were incidents that happened that she never fully unpacked repeating it yourself girl or she did a pita herself. She didn't find out in the swimming life. What happened in portugal. And in this life there had been like a restraining where there been some kind of incident and like it didn't really. She didn't really find out what had happened to her. I know i mean the book would have been like an extra couple of hundred pages long if she did. I know what i wanted to know. Maybe we can ask matt haig. We're not talking to or not. But what about the last life that she lives. Because after the band life she kind of goes on a spree of different lives that were all like very quick malays and i loved the description of all. Those lives that she tried. But what are the last life where she's married and she has a high heels life. It felt like really good and happy. And i liked ash to. I felt like they were like. I feel like you know in earlier scenes where he makes an appearance. I felt like he seemed like a good guy and someone she could be happy with. It's not that. I disliked this life. But i was so i was finding myself almost angry because i didn't want her to end up in this life. Yeah i so deeply. Didn't want the solution to be. Mary didn't have children in. That would make you happy. Yes you're right. You're right i i guess. Romantic in me was like this is a good life. She should she. Should have this one and i wanted for her. Whatever made her happy. And and i think this is more me projecting my feelings onto this than anything else. But i was like i really could. She stayed in this life for weeks. And i was. I really. don't want it to be the one that sticks the one where she's married and has to child. Yeah yeah. I understand why you know. It was an interesting one for her to experience from the author's perspective. Why this would be a sticky life but yeah. I'm glad she ended. I'm glad that ended where it did. I also loved in this life that you've got to see the small ripples of her being missing her route life so in this life she goes back to bedford one day. She gets to see first of all the man across the street from her. Who was an elderly man. She used to get his prescriptions for him. And in this life. He's in a care home because there was nobody to get them for him. Yes and then. There was a boy that she taught piano lessons to in this life. He's being arrested for stealing. And so i loved in this life that you've got to see like the the release small ripple effects of what would happen. If she wasn't in her route life he and back to the central theme of a book like all that regret she had she actually had been doing some really good things and helping people even though she just didn't even think about it or no it. Yeah yeah how did you feel about the. I loved it. How about you the same. I felt like it was the only ending that could have existed for it. Yeah 'cause if say. She had stayed with ash which was my favorite of all the lives. Then it's like the theme is like But don't worry like you can get married and like your. Your life will get fixed if she'd found any of these lives no matter what they were that she wanted to stay in. I don't think the book. I don't think it would have had the same power so i feel like returning to her. Life was really necessary and deciding she wanted to live and learning those lessons. It did love at the ending The little bit with her brother. I loved that little bit where he'd been kind of recurring throughout the lives. And she was like. Did you meet a guy at the gym and he interpreted was like I did actually ask about a day. Yes i loved that part. I did too. I thought that was really really sweet. Yeah and i thought it was tweet that she she made her way back to the real. Mrs elm yeah. 'cause when i first read it i was like ooh doesn't doesn't look good for mrs l. mrs l. Might be dead yeah But yeah i did like the ending. And i found it really satisfying even if it was was predictable and a lot of ways but it was like really satisfying like it was like what had to happen. I agree we so. I wanna talk about regrets in our lives g. You have one regret big or small that if you could undo you what as a small i'm by it's something i always think about. I wish i studied abroad when i was in college It's like really the only thing i regret. I just where would you gone. I probably i mean knowing me. I probably would have gone to london because of the or spain because i spoke like medium spain spanish medium spain. I don't know i just think nothing. My life would be so much different or better. If i had. I just regret that. I didn't leave the country besides like mexico or until i was twenty six. I want to say thank twenty five or twenty six. that's not that's not that That's not old. But i just think i was so scared and i had transferred colleges so i had got my friends and like had roommates. I was really excited to live with for my junior year and just like no. I don't want to do that and i just think. Having that ability to travel without like any real responsibilities for a prolonged period of time is such a great experience But about you. I can't really. I can't really figure out how would practically work but i wouldn't. I wish i would've either majored in something different in college or realized the career options i had earlier. Yeah i mean for me. Actually i wish i went to art school. I was always so into art. But i was like you need to go to business school. Because you're practical. And then i look at my sister and the way that she's taken pains in career and turned into this whole business. Yeah like we always talk about or we've talked about many times like that. I just i grew up in a family where your career options were doctor lawyer. Vague business person and i truly did not realize that there were other career options until my mid twenties. And you know. I went to a liberal arts college so i i certainly knew people who are who were majoring in all sorts of other things like a bunch of my friends were communications majors. Like when molly was a history major. So it's not as if i didn't see other people. Yeah majoring in in these things. That i'm like. Oh i just i wish i would have bypassed be corporate america part of my life altogether and like yeah majored something different or picked a different first job. Yeah and then also more recently. Like i'm like i wish i would have awoken to my own creativity sooner and i think that there's i've actually been thinking about this a lot in the past few weeks or months where you know kind of writing both for romcom compounds writing scripts and then also at some point this year hopefully writing a book but i think a lot about what would have happened if i started sooner and i think there is this. It started at the right time because part of what has enabled us to do. This is the fact that with rum. Component specifically is the fact that we had money that we could self fund our own project and we didn't need to wait on anyone's permission. We didn't need to pursue this within the traditional channels which are so hard to break into and we just gave ourselves permission because we had money. Yeah and imagine being twenty five and trying to do this. We'll really i mean if you were twenty five you know you would have had to go live in l. a. and try to work in a writer's room and work your way up and work for somebody else versus there is a freeing power that comes with both age experience and money where you can just be like doing this thing. Yeah so it's not even just say that it would have been to. It would behoove me to start any earlier. But i have just been thinking about that the last few months of like. Oh i feel. I came late to my own creativity. Yeah whatever. A major allegedly where he's in quotation marks wrong. Turn in your life that you would not undo and also look at enable. That was good. I have i had trouble. I wrote this question. But i had trouble coming up with an answer to this question because i truly don't think that i have any very major regrets. I mean one. Thing i can think of is like i moved to san francisco. I only lived there for two years. I worked for a company. It took me a while to find a job. And then when i did work find a company to work for. The company ended up folding. And then i ended up leaving san francisco after about little less than two years just because like couldn't find a job and i needed to go somewhere else and it was kind of fail on all fronts but it's also how i met some of my best friends. Yeah it's how i met rachel. It's how i met my friend. Lauren met so many good people through it. And also kind of set me on this path that it was my first job in fashion that then led to my babur so like yeah it led to it completely was the starting point of a lot of good things in my life even if everything about the experience kind of like fell apart. I also had fun. I don't regret it in any way but yeah on paper. It's like well that didn't that didn't work out so well it's so weird. How these things like lead you to the right places like if you had never worked for pablo buyer you and i never would've met. We never would have started this. Podcast like so many things. What's yours what you're wrong. Turn that you wouldn't undo. This wasn't a wrong turn. I just remember when my like last like really long relationship ended thinking. I could've worked harder at it. I could have done better. I could have like if i had just been like a better girlfriend or this and that wouldn't have ended but In hindsight like it was like the best thing for me. i think When we broke up. I got to really spread my wings and i really focused working focused on my blog in my career and i wouldn't have the life that i have now with. I had stayed with that person. You wouldn't have a cat either. He didn't like cats. No helix cats. We were going to get two cats together but he didn't like persian. Oh he didn't like persian cat. She thought they are ugly. Which sorry tyrian if you hear this anywhere But i think he wanted to tabby cats okay which i'd be violence. How you would have had a different cat. Yeah wouldn't have my beautiful beautiful wide eyed child. Yeah i i do also reading. This book made me feel just more secure in all my past life choices. Not that i not that. I was holding onto any very major regrets. But you're right where you need to be. Yeah yeah it made me. It just felt so reassuring it did. Yeah it did. It's like a pep talk in a weird way. Yes absolutely it was. It was like a pep talk without giving you a pep talk absolutely. Yeah and it was kind of like a guide you to your lesson. Yeah yeah like if it had been a self help book reading all of the. It's horrible but learned. I feel like i wouldn't have. I don't know i would've. I rolled or been. Like i know that but like seeing somebody else live them just had more impact for me. Yeah i agree. I love this book so we'll obviously start pratt and the facebook group. If you have thoughts about this book we would love to hear them but shall we. Shall we move onto other topics. Yeah do you have an instagram obsession this week. Don't but i see you do. Is you Mine is an artist and her name is colleen m herman. She's actually based in brooklyn. New york city painter My friend alicia. Who could another instagram obsession. Alicia lund. i think her instagram his leash amland. She posted this beautiful painting. I had tapped through. I was like. I need to know more about this. Artists and her work is just exquisite. It's like bursts of color. it's very abstract. I think he would like it. Actually it's beautiful. And i just really like her work and now sad because i'd love to go see her in a gallery but i'm definitely not going to have time before i move. Well we'll come back. I'll come back. i'll have to look up. Yeah what about regular obsessions so minds. A continuation from last week. So i said last week that i discovered this new podcast called happier in hollywood and greece. I have been on such a binge since last week. I've been listening to apps early short. They're like thirty minutes. And i've been going on walks and listening to them and i just feel. Oh my god it just feels so relevant to my life because the these women are also writers on tv. And they're way more successful than i am. So you know in some ways. I'm acquainting myself to them and it's an insult to them. But i am just getting so much out of it and i'm enjoying hearing their stories and i just feel more secure in a lot of ways to hear somebody else have the same doubts and concerns that i have. I think one of the challenges is that with what we're doing with romcom pods that we don't really have a lot of contemporaries in terms of i don't i don't know many people who are doing this at the same time so. Tv writing is like kind of a good proxy but i also tv writers. So i just feel really reassured. I want to listen. I haven't been this deep in a podcast binge slash like obsessions. Since i discovered the financial confessions i feel like i'm really deepen this. I went back to the beginning. And i downloaded now of them. But a bunch yeah. What's your obsession. I didn't really have ones that. This is kind of scraping the barrel little. But i think that if you're in the market for new furniture. Us might like this. It's called maiden home and I didn't know about this company until aaron gates. Who's helping me design my new apartment. And i got my couch from here and it was a little expensive but i just think that they're pieces are stunning. I wanted something with like rounded edges. Like i want to have a lot of round shapes and my new apartment just understanding after reading joyful how are is just drawn drawn to round things and they make us happy as opposed to like more sharp angles just like his gory. Joyful should be my obsession. it's the best but but it's like really really nice high quality furniture. Everything is made in north carolina by artisans and like i spent. I brought my couch. Which is called the ludlow and it's a sectional but i just think that everything that they have on. Their site is stunning. I feel like. I should not go to this just for fun. I feel like you were talking about. Maybe getting a new count. I do kinda wanna new couch. Yeah and i got a sectional. I'm excited so i'll have a little captain's chairs so 'cause i'm only going to have one couch in the new space. I can't wait. Yeah it's gonna be great. What on the reading front such bad reader. this month. I finished yoke by mary. Hp show i so last time we talked. I was like i don't know. Did you like this. The last half of the book i loved. I loved all the way through. I did not feel annoyed with the younger sister the same way that you did. I was annoyed by really felt for her throughout I started to like really like her by the end and the sister dynamic and then i don't like the ending was oh my god and the mom like i. I don't wanna ruin anything for anyone. So i'm going to stop gushing. But i loved it and then i started reading another recommendation from you. I'm so behind on books this month. delicious by ruth regal. Yes which. I'm loving so far. I'm so glad you liken it to the devil wears prada food. I can totally see that. Yes i also have not been doing great on the reading front. I have been so zonked out at the end of the day of the only thing i can do is watch tv. But i read a book called somewhere. Only we know by maureen goo and this has been recommended after our club from last month. Which was if. I had your face by francis. Scott and we've talked on that episode about how we were really into the k pop angle and so this book is a why book about a k pop star named lucky and The whole book is told over a weekend. And she's like the number one k pop star and she ends up meeting this guy in hong kong while she's on tour and they end up like having this day together and like falling for each other under these circumstances of normal and she's a k pop star so it's a little bit the idea of you not that steamy also. It's like a team. Thank but like famous person. Non famous person but it sat in the hip hop world. So i love that. And i really enjoyed it. It was really really sweet cute so if you need a new book to read should we tell them our book for young so i am still i have. I'm only a couple of chapters into it but our book pick is delicious by ruth. Reichel and i don't know if it still is but a few people told me it was like two dollars in the kindle store. Oh exciting so go do that. Yeah i feel like this is going to be such a fun one to discuss. The book is about a girl who moves from california to new york city straps out of college and she takes a job as an assistant at delicious magazine which is You know supposed to be gourmet or petite. And she's the assistant to the editor in chief and so she gets sucked into this whole new food world and then it also has kind of a historical fiction plotline. Where while she's working there. The magazine has an archival library and in there. She finds all of these letters from a young girl. Who's you know like maybe eleven That were sent to james beard. Who was at one. Point the editor of this fictional magazine. I am there during world. War two cool cool and so she finds. She looked uncovers correspondence. He loved that The book is obviously a great food book with all also wrote. Save me the plums and garlic and sapphires among other food memoirs. It's obviously great food buck but it's also like a fun magazine book. It's a fun new york book like a. i'm excited. I am married some more of that tonight. I'm so excited. I'm so glad yeah. In the meantime join us in the facebook group. Come hang out with us on instagram. We're at bad on paper podcast. I'm on instagram. At beckham freeman. I'm one instagram grace. Atwood and we'll see you next week is five.

nora mrs elm matt haig australia Grace atlit simon simon Hey hayes national suicide prevention ho swimming Mrs allen charleston dan mrs alum Mrs l olympic frederick bachmann alex hugo izzie mrs allen
Just Us: Our favorite movies + TV shows.

Bad On Paper

1:23:38 hr | 9 months ago

Just Us: Our favorite movies + TV shows.

"Hi everyone. Welcome back bat on paper podcast. I'm becca freeman. i'm grace atwood it. We're talking about tv today. Why not. I mean i feel like we had a lot of requests for like hauer gonna get her quarantine. We'll do a quarantine winter episode. I think the answer is we don't know yet but i think. Tv is going to be a big part of it. And movies absolute. We're talking about today. I think it's it's weird. I feel like we're going to have to regress. Because i don't feel comfortable eating in a restaurant and i'm not i'm going out to dinner tonight and it's so cold and raining inside. Yeah in charge. I will eat outside. I feel safe doing that. But i don't feel okay about indoor dining. And i feel like i'm just going to be. We're going to be like back to like full-on quarantine. It's like it's freezing today. It's freezing. And i have dinner plans outside after this. I am the least jealous that anyone has ever been some you before we get into the shows the movies tell me what's going on. What's your high. My high was you and i had dinner this week. We went to lola. Taverna you was your high last time. It was so nice to see you at not hang out like because we see each other like we've recorded three times this week so we see each other a lot. Yeah i also feel like every time. I've seen you recently has been with other people with a group and you know i i like my my deal hang is a one on one hang so it was great and the food was fucking incredible so it was not just my company. Your company was the high but we had a really nice bottle of wine. We got we have this spicy fed. Zip i wanna take a bath in that stuff. It comes in. You can choose three deaths and you got like three different ones chris. Next time we're just gonna the spicy fateh. Yeah so good. We had an amazing steak. We they have the best greek salad. Oh the greek salad so good. It's so good bye so glad. You share my obsession with this place. Oh it's so good and so nice. Let a greek restaurants are like divy but just like more like like less like fine dining in this was it's definitely like a fancier restaurant it's super cute and they have heat lamps. They do. Yeah how about you. So my highest work has been really chill the past few weeks which counting as a high but it makes me like it gives me a weird feeling. We're like the other shoe going to drop where it's either going to get really busy or like or people around him. We don't need your more nba so the back of my mind but it's been really nice. That work has been really really chill like the past two to three weeks. So that's been awesome and we are getting ready to start writing season. Three romcom pods so. I'm very excited to get a new creative project going. Yeah we're wrapping up the loose ends of season two still but it's like not fulfilling in the same way like the finishing touches part to me. Yeah that makes Heart gration part. Yeah so that's my high lows. I'd really love low. So i ruined my body on monday so i i wasn't this year will last week. It was different. It was no it was like two weeks ago. I did something to my hip lectures. Yeah so i. I feel like so boring with the amount that i talked about. The soul cycle bake. But i really have nothing going on in my life. We don't have a lot going on. So anyway. I have been having some like back pain from it over the past couple of weeks and i've been ignoring it and then on monday i woke up and i was like oh my back is not okay and what i think is going on. Is that in the past. Every time i used to do a lot of soul cycle but also doing a lot of pilates. So i think i had more core strength and so now i think because i hadn't worked out for three months before getting the bike and jumped right into it and haven't done anything else other than that. I think that it's putting more pressure on my lower back. Because i don't have the core strain. Yeah so. I woke up on monday morning and not only was my back like so royally screwed. I also period cramps and they were shooting into my legs. There is nothing worse than back playing plus period cramps. It was so bad. You feel like you're dying. I was broken so thankfully it's now thursday. I feel i feel fine now. I'm getting back on the melissa. What health train. I did it this afternoon and did you do. Today's planking serious. I did a different one. It was like a fourteen minute avs with your own body weight one. Yeah it was immediately obvious that i have no strength at the moment because i was like who so hard so hard i did the planking one today and it was so hard. They'll do that tomorrow. So i'm trying to took the week off to exhaust cycle. And you know. I'm going to try to work in doing more. Melissa health app stuff just to yeah just to balance it balances like build horse-trade the gun. So that was milo. What was your lou. My low is also very boring. This weather it's just so cold and rainy like today is like boat. I went to take out some trash. And it's just like bone chillingly cold and wet. I do not usually feel like. I have seasonal affective disorder. I think i'm going to get very concerned for this winter. I think so i. I am julia from lemon stripes story. She was talking about it and she was like she linked to an article. That said that this year is going to be really bad because people will get seasonal depression but we also we'll have to stay inside. Yeah so it was like just take. It was like an article about taking steps to prevent that. I'm gonna find it. And i'll put it in the facebook group too but it recommended a he a a heat lamp. I'm really set on a heat lamp right now. A like a sunlamp. That like makes you happy. Like light therapy light. Yeah okay so. I'm going to look into maybe getting one of those interesting just proactively but i heard you have to like look at it. I don't know you don't have to look at it but you have to be in. Its light for like a good amount of time. Yeah and. I think i'd get really bored. I wonder if i could get it and read while while looking at it. Yeah or you could do it like i think you can put it like next year computer. Yeah i wouldn't be good at like you can't do anything and you have to have this late on your. I don't think it's like that. Okay so yeah. I will be curious to hear how that is. I feel like today. The weather's crappy. And i just feel gloomy in a way that i do not usually feel. Yeah i know. I feel like that too. It's not good and especially after daylight savings time when it gets dark even earlier. I know when daylight savings time sunday. Fuck yeah we're gonna be getting those like four o'clock. Oh i hate those hate that. Yeah all right roasts. Quick desparation minute. We haven't done one in a while if you are enjoying this podcast if we are fake friends during quarantine. We're so happy to be that for you and we would love it if you could leave us a review or if you already leftist review you can take screenshot shared on your story. Tell anyone about this podcast. I'll shoot you very straight but we have completely flatlined and we haven't really grown a lot during the pandemic which get i think. A lot of our listeners useless while they commute and a lot of listeners. Probably kids so you know. Have other things going on. So you know no no fault of anyone's but again it would love you as our loyal listeners. Who hopefully what us to help us. Spread the word a little bit and get back to growing. Yeah so that's that and before we get into the conversation. We also have a new sponsor to talk about so. This episode is brought to you by uncommon goods. They help you find the just right thoughtful gift for everyone on your list. And they're going to be your favorite place to do your online holiday shopping this year so they stock a huge selection of creative gifts. Many of which you cannot find anywhere else. They have a great selection of products from independent makers and small businesses. That you wouldn't be able to find a big box or department store. And they stock everything from art to jewelry two products for kids your kitchen or even your bart so to get ready for this ad. Uncommon goods gave us both a gift card to do a little shopping for ourselves. And i had a blast. So i i got the book club puzzle that i posted on instagram a few weeks ago. It basically by dmc when i posted at people are so into it fair warning it is so hard. I like a hard puzzle but just know it is the most difficult puzzle. I've ever done then. I got some food huggers. Which are these silicone toppers for containers and i also got an avocado shape. One for half avocados and they're meant to replace saran wrap in plastic baggies. But that just goes to show you the variety of things they have. I love food hugger. I didn't see those. I got the best collapsible cheese board ever. It basically looks like a really big slice of pizza and then it has all these like drawers in it that fold out to make a big round circular cheese platter. It even has little cute little knives in the bottom. But it's just perfect. Because i in olden days loved to entertain. But i do not have a lot of space for those things that you only use like. Once a month totalling once every couple of months in this case maybe once a year totally so i had so much fun browsing. There were so many products that i hadn't seen anywhere else and they had a ton of fun craft in cooking. Diy kits that. I think would be so giftable and they even have like fun gifts for men. Why are men so hard to shop for their so hard and i. I already know that. I'm going to be coming back uncommon goods once i get into holiday shopping. So if you want to be a gifting hero and come through with some totally unique and fun gifts. Uncommon goods is going to be your secret weapon. We also love for every purchase. Uncommon goods gives back one dollar to the nonprofit partner. Your choice to date. They've donated over two million dollars and we have a code for you to get fifteen percent off your first gift uncommon goods dot com slash. Bop again that's uncommon goods dot com slash b. o. p. for fifteen percent off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer for uncommon goods cool unique and unusual gifts. Let's get back to this. Let's get into this. So are you more of a tv or a movie person. so i'm i'm generally more of a tv person than a movie person. I have to be very specific mood to watch a movie. And it's usually for me on a weekend. Because i feel like i. I have very specific internal rules about when one cannon cannot start a movie interesting like i will never start a movie and not finish like it has to be watched in one setting so if it's too late like i don't wanna start watching a movie a ten pm but sometimes just finished reading or working or whatever and i'm like oh i'd like to watch something but it's not going to be movie so it's a tv show but then you watched three episodes of a tv show and then you're like. Oh i gotta wash movie. I don't do that sometimes do well. I just think that like there's like some sometimes like when you're distracted or whatever it is a tv show feels like oh. It's going to be half an hour. That's that's totally doable. Whereas with a movie it's like oh it's two hours like i have to be in like the right head space for that like i'd never just throw on a movie where casually throw on a tv show movies like a plan. Yeah i'm watching a movie tonight. And i usually would know that in advance and be like. Yeah i definitely plan my movie watching. I'm gonna start a movie at like eight. pm. I'm not like oh i'm done with things what i'm gonna get. What am i gonna do. Oh should i watch a movie like no happen. I hear you well. I used to be more of a movie person. But i think that cova and just like the state of the world have like really impacted my ability to focus which is something. I'm working on. So i don't i hope it's i hope i go back to being more of a movie person because there's just so many great movies from especially older movies and documentaries and all of that but i feel like during cloven i either watch. Tv show or i watch something i've already seen before like nancy. Meyers movie or Like an old eighties movie but you have cable though right. Are you watching your tv. Like are you just like going into the guide and finding something or are you watching online. Dvr early on. I so i watch mostly streaming. I need to get rid of my of my cable. Now that i have. Hbo max. Because i really got cable. So you guys. I'm just going to give you a little brief of me. Mtv's i have always had a tv and my apartment. But when i live with my axe she had a dvr and we had like a beautiful big screen tv and it was like so much fun for movies and tv. And all of that. Then when i moved out into my first post break-up apartment. I lived in a little studio. And i had a little. Tv up in my bed. Like my oldest sister. Alana gave me her little. Tv to watch. It's not much bigger. Computer monitor was like perfect for that though but because of that i just had an apple tv i didn't have cable so then i moved into this apartment which is like so big and so nice will buy new york standards and about a sixty inch. Tv and i was like oh. I'm going all in i got cable. I got a dvr. I'd never had a dvr of my own and it was so exciting to like record all my favorite shows and have like a full dvr to go to but now we have streaming and all that other stuff it really doesn't. It's not necessary like when was the last time that you just turn on the tv and like went to the guide and we're like i'm going to find something. I never do that. Yeah i just usually. It's the dvr right. It's nice that you cable because will come down here and watch like the debates or yeah. I can't think of anything else that would be on. That needs to be added onto my to do list which i will remember when we review this episode. Okay but i need to cancel my cable. Because they don't use it enough. And i was really just using it for on demand and like showtime and hbo. But i think it's more affordable digest. Have those astana streaming and then get rid of the mainland. Yeah sean Of tv and movies so movies. I kind of i like an old person romance which is very specific genre. But i know exactly what you're talking about a fully agree but i also of mystery. I really like a heiss kind of movie. It's interesting anything with secret agents for somebody who has such mercury book taste. You don't seem to watch a lot of murdering tv shows or movies. So i really miss having a boyfriend. Because i love horror movies with a boyfriend. Like when you're snuggled on the couch with somebody. I will not watch them alone. I will not watch them with a friend. I will have nightmares. But he's not like the cat in the hat. I will not. I will not the only reason to have a boyfriend is to watch horror movies now. I want him boyfriend. I've just given up. Because of covid. So i love i love a heist. I love like What did i was watching. We just the other night and it wasn't very good but i love. I love a good documentary. Like where i learned. I love a murderer documentary Right now i'm just been like so nancy meyers to out like i feel this. All i watch is like i re watched the same for nancy meyers movies. I feel like you have much more diverse tastes than i do. I have pretty much. Only watch comes when it comes to movies. You are such a rom com. Person i am. I mean i so. I usually fall asleep when i watch her. I'm comes no no so. I pretty much only wash romcom movies. I will watch other movies with people if they want to. But if i'm in charge and i'm alone. I will pretty much only watch around com and then on tv. I feel like i mostly watch sitcoms like i like comedies. I do like any show that has to do with like the cia. Anything about the cia or the fbi. Legs blacklists nope not the fbi. Oh only the l. i love. I know what i used to love about the cia. Did you ever watch covert affairs with. Piper perot. sure didn't what is my god. This is your new ben show. it's so cheesy. Do you remember her. She was in coyote. Ugly course remember which is all grown up. She's still like a gorgeous babe but she's like more conservative and she's like wearing suits. Is this recent It was around when stephan ided so it's not is probably like seven or eight years old. Okay it is so fine. Okay yeah no. I love a cia. Show i i mean like i really like jack ryan. Have you watched. Yeah i like jack ryan. I haven't watched much of it. I need to get more into it. I started jack ryan at the beginning of covert and i couldn't focus on anything. Oh yeah. I was having a hard time focusing on the show. I think that's a good one for me to pick back up. I agree yeah i like. Cia show i will sometimes do. I mean i was really into. Game of thrones like i will go outside of the genre and tv but in movies. I'm like pretty much only romantic companies. That's so funny. Okay yeah so. Let's start with tv. Okay oh my god. I'm very excited. Can we talk about our favorite. Tv shows growing up. yes so what. I was really young. I just remember watching anne of green gables and only like constantly. Does you what those second one atom louis. I don't even think i've heard of that. So avonlea was set after an like grew up a little bit. it's the same characters and stuff but it was like the spin off no. I didn't watch either of those at antiquarian gables like it was like sat and prince edward island and it was just like she had red hair and gilbert bligh like her but then they fell in love. When they're older and her best friend was girl samantha and got drunk on cordial like a by accident. Having a tea party they were it was it was like they were wearing like pinafore dresses. And it's not something either of us would seek out now but as a child it was the best and one things giving in the last ten years back. My sister founded on tv and we like put our sweatpants on didn't move for a whole day. Just watch wow no. I never watched that. Oh it's great now. I feel like when. I was a kid when i was a kid kid. I liked like more. I don't remember ever watching anything historical. I remember watching like punky brewster. And i remember watching like all. Hang with mr cooper but it was all like present day stuff like i don't remember watching any the whole family loved anna green gables. Oh yeah oh. I like the most formative show to me. When i was growing up was gilmore girls because i so i think started in two thousand one and i was the same age or within one or two years of rory okay. I was older than murray and thought she was knowing. Yeah i was like the same age as her. I watched it with my mom. My mom was a single mom. She was nothing like laura lie. I don't really think anything like rory. It was sat in connecticut. I lived in connecticut like it was it was very i felt very like meant to be okay like i feel like that was super like a show that i like loved. Yeah when i was younger by that point. I was in high school so it wasn't early high school my show. That was dawson's creek. Because that came out when i was a junior in high school so i think like ninety eight. I love dawson's creek. I remember it being very controversial to the point. Where like even my like. Oh has your younger than i was younger than you. But i remember it being to the point where even like my great aunt and uncle were like talking about it like knew about it. I remember being this very big cultural moment. And i was like very drawn to it. And how taboo it was. Yeah i will tell you that. I do think that the reason i went to. Bc has a lot to do with johnstons creek. Yeah because the college the go-to looks i. It's a fake college in boston. it looks like bc. it's like old stone buildings in la funny the quad and it looks like that. And i remember. When i was touring colleges i just had this idea in my head of like. This is what college is supposed to look like on tv. And like i remember going to be you for like a tour or interview or something. And i was like no because it's a city campus and i was like no. This isn't what college looks like a funny. Yeah i I was already in college by the time. They got to college. Because i was the same age as them. Okay yeah so that are. Maybe they were one year older. I don't know do you watch the whole all the way through all the way through I love that show though the other one. I really liked when i was young. We weren't allowed to watch much. Tv like we are always outside. We did a lot of like created crafts and stuff like my mom and dad just didn't want us to watch much tv. So i remember i watched. I got to have like one half hour. I think oh. I used to watch a lotta tv. We watch saved by the bell loved statement amount of saved by the bell. I love saved by the bell of college years to. I'll i never watched it. Oh yeah. I watched all that. I don't know if it was actually airing by the time. I was watching it or just like reruns but i love that i also loved. Were you too old for boy meets world. no. I loved blaming us. We're loved boy meets world. i had such a crush on rider. Strong i i had a crush on him to do you know that writer strong has a podcast about books i do. We've talked about this. Talked about on the podcast. I don't know we've definitely talked about it in real life where he really. I'm going to take him down and i was like. Oh wow someone is competitive. It's me. I my one of my earliest memories of realizing. I had a big forehead. Was i remember trying to do my hair like paying. 'as and my face just didn't look like hers and i was getting upset and then i realized that she has a very small for very big one and like i remember having that realization. Like 'cause you know when you're young you're just you don't realize like face yes and like it's like trying to put like an hourglass into a pencil like it doesn't work like that. I'm realizing right this minute. What so do you remember in boy meets world where they went to college. And then there was the whole plot line about ho- koreans pango wanted to get married before they were before they graduated college than they had to move into that special housing because they couldn't live together and like i don't remember it being very like i remember the show being pretty like pg pg thirteen so it wasn't like very scandalous about having sex or anything. But i'm like. I truly cannot imagine a show today. Portraying a plotline about like we wanna get married at nineteen and like we're gonna move into this special housing you know what because they seem so much older than me then. It didn't seem weird at all house. Like yeah oh wow special housing. Uh now in my thirties like that was weird. Yeah i was talking to somebody else about a week. I feel like it was writing. Tv was easier in the ninety s. The audiences were less savvy yourself included. Yeah click. I was talking at the example i was talking about was family matters. Oh my god. I loved family loved. I left the whole full house today. I flying out but like do you remember how it was like okay. Family matters is like a show about this family. And it's like the dad's a cop and there's a bunch of kids and they have this knowing neighbor then like halfway through there were like in. There's a machine in the basement and he comes out of the machine then he stiff honor cal yes like. And then he's like super. Handsome and laura is in love with him and i was like. Why didn't we have more questions about. Maybe it was just. Because i was a child but i was like i bought that hook line and sinker. I wasn't like we never questioned things. And it's just like okay. Like i'm just thinking of going into a room like pitching a tv show. It's okay for three seasons. It's like a really normal family sitcom and then they have a machine in the basement that turns him into a dream boat yair limited time and he's the same guy but he speaks differently and we're slightly different clothes and now the hunk. Where's dalil white now. Probably like really wretched like doesn't mean to work. Yeah he's pretty good looking. You know when he was stiffener kelly. He was good looking. He's forty three. That makes sense lives in culver city. Do you ever feel like you. Expect people to be way older than you and then you look it up and you're like oh they're not that much older than me. Yeah he's only four years older than me. that show. I love loved. Same plotline. yeah. You're totally right. But i loved it growing up. It wasn't as if the show had like a paranormal thing. All along with alex. Mack or something like alex mack I used to love that show. It was like okay. There was like a paranormal element throughout. He just like took a regular sitcom and they were like. And there's a time machine on my guy. And i also i think that you are. I know that you weren't into this. That you are too old for this by also loved the olsen twins. Had this very short lived show called so little time and this is in the days before there was the guide on tv just like had to flip around and it was like this mysterious show. I think it was on like abc family or whatever abc family was before it was abc. Family and i have no idea when it aired but you would just like sometimes find it and it was the super short-lived show. I think it was on for like two years. And it was probably when i'm also the same agency also twins and it was probably when they were in like i would say like somewhere between like eighth and tenth grade. They were like tweens to teens. All kind of they lived in. La somewhere with one of their parents. I can't remember. But like i remember the fashion of it being so formative. Oh yeah i would love to see photos of what i thought was super cool but i remember like being like oh i got the show is the coolest. My sister had them wallpaper all over her room like she was obsessed with them. I didn't have that because i was busy. Wallpapering With boys although it was only allowed to have photos in my closet. Because my mom didn't want me to ruin the walls but i love the olsen twins. We also what about now and all that was. We talked about that. A little bit with alexis darya last week. Oh yeah but i loved that show and so. My parents were really strict with the tv watching. And then when i got we got an old pair. She was really into nine. Oh two one. Oh so i started watching it with her and then i mean my parents just didn't know and then when she laughed as whiting's watch now to an hour and they were like you're in like seventh grade. You shouldn't be watching this. So i was thinking about this more after we talked to alexis and so i remember watching it when i was a kid and i must have been like elementary school age like i was really young live and i didn't watch it all the time but i would sneak. Watch it and i would watch it. Because i knew i wasn't allowed to watch it. Yeah made me want to watch it. But then when. I think i actually really watched Nine hundred was when i was in college during per soap net. It was his tv network. I don't think exist anymore. Maybe it does you can check. And they played into an all the time. Oh funny like especially. I feel like they had this like block on the weekends on like saturday from like ten until four or something. They always just play ninety. Nine hundred out and we'd be so over and we would just like have gatorade and like be in our sweatpants and like all commune on our couch and we would just watch like hours of nine. Oh two one. Oh that show is on for so long. It was on for so long. But i think that's where i saw. Yeah that's where. I like really saw nine. Oh remember watching it. When i was a kid but i think it probably was over my had. A lot of it was over my head to i. Am i just remember thinking. It was like so scandalous. 'cause like things like like sex came off bhagat like well into their twenties like it wasn't just you know it started when they were in high school but Yeah gives me all the nostalgia like the peach pit and nad and we watch nine to l. this winter. Maybe we do i. I would hate for it to get ruined because it was terrible. But i re watched the. Oc like a couple years ago. Now it doesn't hold up. It doesn't hold up even at the time. I like the. Oc after mersa cooper dies is not worth it now so there's only three seasons to begin with. I wonder what happened to ryan atwood's character. I haven't seen him in anything. Oh he has a show where he's a. He's a police officer. Are you scared of him. No he's an adult male blonde. Oh he's not that blonde. He's not that kind of want. He's like dirty blond scared of him. So beca has a fear of adult male. Blondes like the ones with blind eyelashes. I think they all look diabolical and like they have a an evil plan like they all are up to something would not trust addio them. Gosh i think blonde kids are cute. I think blood women are attractive. I do not trust blonde ben in quarantine. So what have. I been watching. I watched the politician and the loved yet in season. Two of the politician. That is one that is one of the best shows. I think everything ryan murphy does is great. I disagree. I do not love everything ryan murphy does but i love the policy. Let hollywood should watch that. So good and i don't like Scream queens are like What's the one where every season as new. I don't think that's what this is. No but that's a ride murphy joe. Oh putin's screaming within the other one where it's like every lady gaga isn't it. It's like everyone is. Oh yeah now. i'm just thinking of hollywood and also the politician like two weeks. So i lied but those two shows are wonderful Scream queens was fun but it's a little campy. The politician is so good on so many levels it with the fashion so good also and just the colors aesthetics of it just makes you happy while you're jam and it's it's a show that i think i think season two was better than season. Why they did that time. Jump so it like was kind of disconnected. I like usually that loses me on a show. But i was like no season two way better. I agree so that i loved love life with anna and i don't i've actually heard i feel like maybe it was kate kennedy. Maybe it was daniel prescott. Those are two people. I follow that. Tend to like expose people on their on their instagram stories. One of the most talking about anna has a really bad rap. And she's kind of which i saw her at a party wants and she like she was like one of the celebrities that was hired to mingle and stuff and she like just sat by herself in a fenced off section. She just like didn't look. I was like that's too bad. You play such fun. Characters she Who has the person they were like ragging on the week she had to wear it was really. It was like the funniest instagram story. Oh i remember seeing this where it was like. She was had. This wig looked really badly. But when you when you miss tree yeah we treat people onset. They do you dirty. Yeah who put that in. Their story was so funny. I think might have been candidate. I think it might have been was either her danielle Anyways i loved it. I thought it was really heartwarming and just really realistic and relatable and rob but also funny. at times. It was great love that everyone told me. I would love dr foster. What's dr foster is a british show and it's a thriller and it's woman and starts. She's like this really successful doctor. I'm thinking of something else. I'm thinking of fosters which is like a show with laurie laughlin on it from like now early two thousand. No so dr foster's about this woman who like has like the perfect life. She has a son husband. Everything's going great. She's really prestigious doctor and then she finds a woman's hair on i think her husband's scarf and like she kinda like goes down a rabbit hole and she finds out that he's having an affair he's having an affair with the woman is played by jodie. Comer who. I love from oil. And just think she is. she's beautiful. she's so so beautiful. So i watched the first season. I couldn't stop. And then i started the second season and i've just been kind of mad on it but i am going to pick it back up. That's how i felt about killing eve. Another dirty show where. I loved the first season and then i was kinda mad. Yeah same so that what else. Oh the morning show. I watched like right. Before quarantine i watched during quarantine googling right now to see i hope when my second season we'll be because it got picked up but i don't know if they started filming before cove ed it looks like it says that season one came out november first two thousand nineteen. It's not gonna come out for anytime soon. i don't think it was hoping that they filmed it. Would it would come out. And then the last thing that i watched it i loved. I mean there's other things i watched like. What else are we doing watching. Tv movie and watching movies was i re watched white collar and that was really fun. I love. I love that show back when it was on. Did you watch white collar. No think you would love it. I got my mom and dad to watch it too. It's an fbi show where this there's a conman with a heart of gold and he gets captured and then he joins them kind of like the blacklist to help them out but he's just like so charming and dynamic and he's always like going to like glamorous parties as part of his job. It's fun i've lake found a lot of solace in having a show that i'm watching during like having a show that is like my show that it's during the week i can watch like one or two episodes at night. Yeah i've watched a ton of tv. I what i've i'm doing that with gossip girl and i think i'm already on season four. I think i might restart gossip girl. I had watched gossip girl somewhat recently before the pandemic. so i didn't at the beginning. I was like no because a lot of people were doing that and i was like no. I don't think i'm going to yeah. I think i might so okay. So here's what i've watch. So i re watched all of new girl and i will say that there are definitely some points of it. That are problematic. It's very fat-phobic There's some things that are like not quite that feminist about it. Yeah however the writing is so good. I laugh out loud every episode interesting. I didn't really like new girl as a show. I think it's like great episodes or twenty minutes. Yeah like it's like a great easy. Watch so i watched all of that. I really liked it. I watched episodes one with matt leblanc which was like a little more kind of like fucked up. Yeah like it. It's a comedy but it's kind of like a british comedy a little bit. Yeah and i liked that. By the end i was kind of like. Yeah i get it but that entertain me for a while. I also watched the politician dead to me. Season two came out during quarantine. Yeah i started. You didn't finish that. No i like it. Oh my god grace. You don't know the twist at the end okay. I loved it. Okay that show just as such good twists at the end okay for awhile was rewatching scandal. Which is really into. But then it came off net flex and i don't know why rachel all of my friends hate us about me. I have the version of hulu with commercials. And i'm like commercials. Don't bother me. And also i like i kind of work making commercials sometimes. I think it's interesting to see commercials but didn't want. I didn't want to binge-watch scandal with four commercial breaks. Yeah so it went off netflix. And it's only on hulu now. I was like yeah. I'm good yeah. I got through like season four of that. Oh the other thing. That i love love love turn quarantine was never have i ever. Oh i love that show. I love jack and watch that again. That was so cute. It was a violent girls. i thought they were. It was like heart warming but also the writing was so go so good and i might have to go back and rewatch that. Yeah it was such a quick one be. I think gossip girl might be on my docket for once we get into winter. It's it's a great. It's taking me a long time to get through at all. There's with gossip. Girl is that there are some. I feel like the season where serena is hooking up with a cousin and working on the campaign whole season so bad. I'm past that. And then the other season where she goes to columbia and is like she having to figure the teacher at forget. there's two seasons. I really could live without skip them. You can skip them. But there's two seasons that. I'm like oh this is bad. If it's getting overly dramatic i also will oftentimes have it on in the background work. Like if i'm working at night. I can't do that. I don't back watch either senator. I'm not in it okay. That's probably the better way to be. So yeah i don't know what about your all time favorite. What's your like top of the top. Okay all time. Faves gossip girl jackson the city switching. Gears game of thrones. That's why how named tyrian the west wing of the west wing suits and white collar. Have you watched any sex in the city recently. No i i tried to go back and watch it. I don't know a couple years ago. And i found myself not loving it. I found myself still liking it. But hating kerry. Yeah that that too but even just the episodes being like. I think that they were so innovative at the time but an so knocked off that now they feel cliche. Okay not because i think just because it was so much part of the cultural zeitgeist that it got knocked off a lot interesting. I i i just liked. It liked the i liked their friendships. I liked. I want to be maranda. I mean i left at the time. And i definitely watched it in my early twenties to after it was done. Airing it was reruns on. Hbo or whatever but like it's always been like a favourite show. But when i tried to rewatch it. Recently i was like. Oh no yeah which makes me sad. Made me sad that. When i was younger i aspired to be like carrier charlotte and then i watched the show and was like oh no. I don't wanna be like any of them. Yeah yeah. I mean. I re watched the show like yeah as thirty something. Yeah but that's also just the the times of change too. Yeah that's true. I feel like for me. My ultimate show that i will always like rewatch is rock. Okay i think the comedy in the writing is so good. And i will never tire of it okay. I love thirty rock. I've actually watched the good place nursing amount of times. I think they're just like so many things about it. That i think are so funny. The episode's where jason men's soukous comes and he's derek. Kill me. i don't. I don't watch it so i don't know. Oh i don't think. I like a lot of comedy. Yeah you don't like i hate shits creek. I think the good place is kind of annoying. I think that third thirty rock. I just couldn't hold my attention. What's wrong with me. I don't know. I i also watch parks and rec every five. You know not as often but yeah get into that. I don't like it as much as some other people do. I like thirty rock more gossip girl also a show that i will like continually rewatch a. Yeah it's weird. How the fashion and got gossip girl still holds up. It really does like all of it. Even throughout the seasons like every outfit like sometimes when they're in their like really body kind dresses and stuff. I'm like not into that outfit. But most for the most part. I love it all it really. Does i agree with that. Yeah do you watch any current. Tv lake are are younger anything. Yeah that's i saw in the outline. I was like you had younger. And i was like. Yeah that's the only thing. I really watch kinda. I liked love life. Which is current there. Yeah there's like seasons of stuff. I don't think there's gonna be more love life you know. Yeah i i crapped out on the bull type. I don't like the bold type. I liked it at first and then i got sick of it. Everyone says this currencies. And i think alex was yelling at me that everyone says this current season is so good so i don't know maybe it in the depths of winter all back to it but i like it. I think it's feminist and smart. But i just. I don't like jane and i don't like cat. I think they're both so annoying. Juelich sautin up. Yeah yeah. I like her. I didn't mind any of them. I just felt like it was like it. Felt like the characters were just like making the same mistakes with different people. And i was like yeah. I don't know. I felt like they were like annoying younger friends that i just like i like would just watch the make these mistakes and be like. I don't wanna watch you do this any any boundaries on our friendship. It makes me sad. That i don't have any currencies season. Tv things that. I'm into yeah. There hasn't been shits creek was my last one but now it's over that i was like in real time sad sad although i mean i guess it's good not to be truly like dependent on anything or like super into anything because i think it's going to be weird with cova to see what happens to tv production. Oh you know what. I love and can't wait for it to come back with you. I didn't watch listen to all my god you must. That's that's one of my favorite shows so you i'm a weenie like i am a weenie and i am scared. I get scared of. Tb like even season was a lot for me. And i watched most of season one with my friends. Elizabeth and molly so i can watch scarier things with other people but like i would never just like watch it by myself on my the best show. It's so good. No i'm not saying it's not good but i'm just like i'm a scaredy cat all watch season. I don't know maybe. I'll watch it with you Season three though. I can't wait for that. Come you re watch season two. I'll watch it with you okay. Maybe before season three comes out over your watching. We can watch it to go. Hey i need a buddy. But that's my favorite like it's like it was like it's like gossip girl but it's scary. I love it Ways um paris yeah. I watched in paris in like less than a week. Yeah i did started at the night. The day came out. I was so excited. I was so excited. It makes so on the one hand. It makes me really excited. Because i feel like those types of shows or what we want to create with romcom pods and so the fact that is such a big audience for it makes me really happy. It strikes me as a show that i watched. Because we're in quarantine. But if it if i had a life outside of quarantine and like we had it hadn't been these circumstances i probably would have watched two episodes bent like this is terrible and like not watched any more. I don't i liked it it. It did get better i think or maybe i just got more used to it. I liked the chef a lot. I was very chef storyline museum. Good thing in the show and the clothes. I thought emily's emily's hair when she's not worrying about extension. And i did like i did like some for close but i thought that The writing about her career was likes so dumbed down and like yes dated. It makes working in. Pr just look like it's all schmoozing and parties and it's so much work and then like the the relationship she had with her boss. I didn't love yeah. that her boss was like having an affair and then she was like jealous and competitive with emily. I i liked it. Listen am i gonna watch these into absolutely. Oh yeah i will watch it. I'll be bored. But i don't know i think it almost in some ways. Lucked out at it came out in quarantine it dead because people wanted to see something beautiful and escape super escapist. It was so fun to like. See the paris yeah. I don't know i. I liked it. I feel like. I'm being on it than i than i actually felt in the moment. Yeah the other thing i wanted to discuss. We don't we both don't really like reality tv. No i don't watch any reality. Tv and it's not because i'm above it. I like i firmly firmly believe this. Yeah it it's because. I have a slightly addictive personality and if i were to start watching. One of the housewives would need to watch all of the housewives. Yeah and then. I would have no life like. There's just no reason for me to give away more of my time to this type of thing. Yeah definitely like ditto in the kardashians. Like when i used to have cable and it would be like a hangover sunday. I would find it. And i would be like wow i just watch six hours of the kardashians but like i'm not too good for reality. Tv i'm like just trying not to get dragged under. Yeah what's your. Why don't you watch reality tv. I just don't like it. It gives me a headache but the one show. I do like like i put on housewives months and there's just so much yelling and drama and i i don't like this like you know me. I don't like drama like even when friends are being dramatic trend to like just like retreat and hide. I just don't like it. But i do like southern term and i think that comes stop. I think it's back now. I do like Ideally queer eye. But that's a different kind of reality. Tv yeah like i. I watched. I also watched the home. Edit show and i watched the studio mcgee show Didn't really like the felt like the home. Edit was like it was fun to watch but it felt like a big infomercial for clear plastic. And then i watched and i thought that the studio mcgowan was really cute but also hard to relate to. It was just these giant mansions in utah. Well this isn't something. I'll ever have But you know. I'm i'm not a big reality. Tv person yeah before we're talking about movies let's take another quick break and talk a sponsor so by now you've definitely heard me talk about pros. The world's most personalized haircare so often using it for about six months. I'm a total convert and i wanted to share a few updates since using the custom formulas that pro set me spoiler alert. It's the real so to get started. You take a haircut and you tell them all about your current hair your hair goals and your lifestyle. 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Treat and just know if you're skeptical if you're not one hundred percent positive. The pros is the best hair. Kerr you've ever had. They will take the product back. No questions asked so. If you wanna take gifting to the next level with pros custom hair care you can get fifteen percent off your order by going to pros dot slash b. o p. that's p. r. o. s. e. dot com slash p. For fifteen percent off your order pros dot com slash b. o. p. pros dot com slash b. o. p. onto the movies. Something i wanted to talk about. Is we've binge tv lot but what about movies. You benji movies series. No i i told. I'm only marathons contradicting myself. That i I i watched the oceans movies last week and it was a weird out of character moves but i couldn't think of a single movie series that i'm like. Oh yeah i'm really into it. I need more. But i was really into back back to the future. And then also harry potter. Which i think i'm only on the third movie right now so speed but it's so they're so big that you can't watch you know i wanna watch is the lord of the rings movies. I've never seen i've never seen them. Either i remember it acts used to be like we need to watch this together and i got i would always fall asleep on the first one and then he'd keep watching it. I'd just like i'm gonna go do crafts. What what have been your go to quarantine movies. I mean i've just been watching rom coms. And i've i've been doing two things so on the one hand. I'm trying to watch one. That like i've seen a million times just like bring me comfort like last week. I started with the holiday movie really early this year. I watched last holiday with queen latifah. I love that one And so i'd like watching things that. Bring me comfort that. I've also been trying to find romcom that i haven't seen before but i've just been like fully immersed in romcom. I looked back. If you google netflix. History you can like click and see what you've watched on athletics. So i went back and looked at what. I've watched on netflix and amazon prime recently like in the past month. So oh so. I watched the princeton me. The other day i started that the other night and then i put it took it off a hated it man that one is just object to me a million times. Yeah and i really think that the internet has ruined the secret. Prince sean rat or like the secret president kids like there's so many movies from when we were high school college age of like chasing liberty or first daughter where it's like there's a secret identity of somebody but like that just doesn't exist with the internet. Yeah so i find them like really delightful nostalgic okay so i watched that only god morning. Glory is on netflix. And it's one of my favorite rom coms okay. Have you seen that. I don't think so with mcadams and harrison ford and diane lane diane keaton. I think i've seen it. What's it about. It's about a morning show. Oh i think i did. I don't remember it though. Oh i love that. I watched about time recently. Which is the number one movie that is guaranteed to make me cry. I lose it when i watched that movie. Also rachel mcadams movie. I love rachel mcadams. But i don't. You've never seen about no i have. I love that movie. i watched it beating. You told me you were crying watching it. I was like i could use a good cry. It my black heart did not cry. Destroys me oh my gosh. She's just roy's me that and psi love. You are my two movies that i'm guaranteed to like okay. Psa love you. I drink with that made me saw. I also kinda got into watching some of the like net flicks rom coms from a couple years ago when they were releasing them. So i watch. Set it up the one with Zoe joined glen powell. I think that's such a good one I watched the alley wong one. But i can't remember the name of love that one may be. Maybe that was really cute. I don't watch anything in the romcom genre. I watched no strings attached a few weeks ago. Oh i watch nick. And nora's infinite playlist which i've never seen before i watch Watch the wedding year on hulu. I'm just. I'll watch any romcom calm. I have never mentioned on the podcast. I would like you to do it. I don't want. I'll put a chain in the facebook group because i am seeking romcom always but yeah it it like brings me a lot of comfort to watch other people be happy while covert is happening. Yeah yeah i hear that. What have been your favorite quarantine go. To's so i've had a few themes one has been eighties. I love a good eighty s movies. Like from our youth She's out of control is fantastic. I'm can't buy me. Love is amazing. Working girl is so fine. It's like one of my all time favorite movies as it is And then when you are sad turned to nancy meyers and admire her old people. Romances admire the kitchens The houses the hamptons homes. All of it My favorite nancy meyers movies are probably the intern. Something's gotta give it's complicated and of course the holiday. I don't know if i believe there's a bad. Nancy meyers movie What women want doesn't really hold up. But oh i forgot that. That was an answer. I think it was good during the time. I remember liking it at the time. But i do think the canon of nancy meyers is pretty pristine agreed. You really can't go wrong. You can't yeah so. I noticed that you put favorite childhood movies here. Didn't add years. So i would like to tell you mine that i feel very strongly about an. You can brainstorm yours. So when i was a kid i cannot justify this but we used to go to this video store. What was the name of it. It wasn't a blockbuster like it was like. I think like a localish but anyway we used to go to this movie store and every single week called tommy case and every single week i wanted to get the same two movies and i wanted to get mermaids with share and i wanted to get the arab there with michael j. fox so the arab there i have to assume as an incredibly racist movie. I haven't seen it as an adult but the whole premise is that michael j. fox is like starting a basketball team and goes to like africa to recruit tribal african men to play in this basketball. That sounds real racist. It's like a. It's a comedy seven-year-old me like two thumbs up thirty four year old man. I haven't i literally haven't seen it in two in like two decades Mermaids was like a deeply inappropriate movie for my mom to let me watch at that age as kids move. No not at all it's rated r. Like it's not like awful. But like i guess spoilers on mermaids but it's about share the mom of winona ryder and christina ricci. And she's like always with a new man and they like move around a lot and she's like kind of a permit skuas mom and she's like always leaving them to go go to parties like donor. Rider is their jewish winona. Ryder's obsessed with being catholic. And so there's like this convent right near where they live. And she ends up losing her virginity to like this guy who works at the convent and christina ricci It's not a happy children. Friendly movie rented every week loved. Okay loved it also when i was slightly older. I feel like the other movie that i used to be able to. Just like watch on repeat was the baas lerman. Romeo and juliet opening nardo. Di caprio and clara jane. That was a good one. Oh my god. I could watch that like ad nauseam. I had such a crash leonardo dicaprio. Yeah and that. Was like a to click young leo. Yeah i love that. I also loved that thing. You do which i watched. I watched her like a month ago. It is so good. I don't remember it. It's like about so actually tom. Hanks isn't it. But i didn't realize that i was looking enough when i watched it. Tom hanks road. Oh no way. Yeah it's like the only movie he's written and it's about this band at sat in the sixties or the sixties. It's so good it really really holds up interesting. Yeah i i will still watch mermaids misogyny though okay. I don't think i've ever seen it's good all right. Maybe i'll watch it sometime. Just not kid friendly. Yeah wait what are yours. So i my to ones that i like was obsessed with were the never ending story and the princess bride. I love to both of those. I also loves back to the future which we talked about earlier. I love tom. Hanks movies like big. Oh i loved big. I love to sleepless in seattle. I i we watched a lotta disney movies in my house. Because i was the oldest had like was pretty sheltered and wasn't allowed a lot of screen time which is crazy screen time such a trendy thing but my parents like didn't want us to watch look at the tv all day long and randomly So aladdin was like our favorite. We loved aladdin. Like so my favorite was. I loved on the lion king so oh i love the line in came out when i was eight. It looks like so. It was like i think i was like kind of like perfect age for it. Yeah i think. I was thirteen when it came out. I loved it and i had a cat though. It looks like alliance so that helped. I was the catholics. Like a lion. Enin randomly this is not something that one would think i loved. I loved the mighty ducks i remember. I remember liking the mighty ducks that i was a kid. I know nothing about hockey. Yeah i just remember like the team spirit of it and like how positive. It was like young josh jackson. Yeah yeah so those are mine. I would like to watch that thing you do with you. Okay i can do that k. Yeah what about documentaries. I feel you. Don't watch a lot of documentaries. Don't i'm not a documentary. Person is rarely watch a documentary like it has to be so hyped for me to watch it. Yeah i that is just not. I feel like if i'm consuming nonfiction content. I probably want it to be audio. Yeah like i'll listen to nonfiction podcasts. I feel like is probably my number. One interesting way that i would want to consume something or like an article i would pick a documentary over a nonfiction podcast. I would pick like an article like a deep dive. Article is my number one. Podcast is number. Two and unlike documentary is number three. Okay i know we all know that nonfiction books are number. Four and then i will never read bub. No i say well. That's so funny. Okay what type of documentaries do you like. I like murdering ones by also like we'll go through these kicks like where i get really obsessed with the thing and i want to watch learn everything about it like when i went to cuba then came home in. Watch like five documentaries about cuba. Oh what they were. I did watch the documentary about leaving the hasidic jewish faith one of us one of us gonna live kind of on the hospital has designated and i was. I just found it so interesting. When i moved to brooklyn because even though i lived in manhattan i just didn't realize the density of the jewish population in williamsburg and i realized that i didn't know anything about it and it was just really really surprising to me and so i watched that documentary. Yeah and i really enjoyed it. I love that one the other one. The other thing. I love is a food documentary like my friend. Produced one called cuban food stories so speaking of cuba in it's amazing. My boyfriend did Jiro dreams of sushi which was like just food porn There's a lot of. There's a lot of really good food documentaries milo watch all of them food and murder i mean just to my heart i feel like i'm really low brow with all of my media. Consumption like book. It's funny because i don't think of you as a lowbrow person but then you like you're like oh yeah i only do rom coms ever basically. It's true i am who i am. Yeah i also think that. I may be used to be more balanced in my twenties or like earlier because i was not insecure about owning my interest. But i would be like. Oh that makes me seem like a dumb person. Yeah and. I don't think that anymore like i'm like no. I'm secure that. I'm a smart person. Like if these are my interests these are my interests. And so i don't not gonna force myself to watch things that i'm not interested in so i feel like i really just like come into my give no fox station. I'm like no. I only want to rahm comes and you know i shall girls a great movie. You like what you like. And i love that about you. Yeah although i hated shelly girl. You're so wrong with him and watch tonight. Oh my god. What about favorite recent movies. Have you watched anything like newish. So the last movie that i ever watched in the theater before quarantine was nine hundred seventeen. It's a war movie. Which is totally not my type of thing and i would never watch this again because it just made me sob but honestly back it is so moving and i think that the only reason i would watch. It isn't a theater to be honest because it's so just seeing it on a big screen and it's like basically all shot in one in like one. Continuous scene interest excellent. Excellent movie not a war movie person at all went because a group of my friends when i was in charleston. We're all going. So i went and i like literally cried at the end. It was really good. Yeah it's not a movie. I see you enjoying no no no but in the theater. What's not a movie. I would pick either but in the theater was excellent. Yeah we're watching my favorite recent movie tomorrow night. We're having a movie night. And i'm forcing not foresee ua. I'm excited were mutually decided that we're going to watch it. I watched the high no a few weekends ago. And it's this movie with tracy. Ellis ross and dakota johnson. It came out in may of this year. So i think it kind of just got lost in code and i don't even think movie theaters were opened. So i think it probably just like went. Direct to streaming or dvd your. I don't know what the right terminology but So basically tracy ellis. Ross is an aging singer. So she's like past her prime and was famous like seems like mariah carey type where it was like. She was huge but she hasn't released any new music. Recently and dakota johnson is her assistant and it's like a comeback story so she like trying to make a comeback and like put out new music and like the record labels telling her that like she's too old and she can't do that and it's like a. It's kind of like a girl power movie. I loved it. i can't wait. I loved it and it's also really. We also talked about the emirates one. So i haven't watched that yet. It's called the holiday eight holiday eight. It's the first net flicks christmas movie for this year. I think we need to wait on that. Because i think if we watch it without rachel she'll be really really mad so we might watch it on saturday with rachel. I don't know that i'm going to do that. But i love. I love rachel. I don't know that. I want to have plans bowls nights the weekend so i'm very excited about the holiday too but i feel like rachel is my christmas movie writer. Die okay. i ll understand if you wanna watch it with her. Yeah but i'm excited for tomorrow. I'll watch last holiday with you. If you'd like to watch that. I don't know i got i sound like such a grinch slick praise what are you like. I like murder in food. You like i am here to judge. I think you'll really like tracee. Ellis ross movie. it's very fun. That sounds right in my. I love really girl powrie. I love a comeback story. And i love anything about the entertainment industry. Yeah so. I think that's going to be right at my alley. No good christmas. Louise i could care less about. But i do really like roberts. I love a christmas movie. I don't know why a warm hug. I recognize like i watch christmas movies and i'll be like this is bad. What was the one where they got married at the end like it was so bad christmas. Prince maybe will. They had a second movie for their wedding. No it was a different one It was so bad it was like. I can't remember what happened to. I is remember being like they should not be getting married like they haven't even kissed yet. Ooh that's a lot of them. Yeah that's a lot of them it is. It is a totally separate entity for me. And we're gonna do a holiday episode so we'll can talk more about christmas movies. I'm rolling my eyes. This know. I thought we already said. We're gonna do a holiday episode. Not about christmas holiday stuff. Yeah we are an all talk. All get on a soapbox and i'll talk about christmas. Yeah i don't know why it just makes me really happy. There's there's only been a few that. I really can't watch okay. The only way i can watch them is if i'm like live commenting on them on twitter instagram stories. Making fun of them. I'm glad we're not watching the holiday together. I want to watch it with somebody who appreciated sheets. And i'm not appreciative. Sorry i'm excited for the high note. Good maybe we'll watch that thing you do if we want to watch a second one. Yeah that'd be fun okay. Should we talk about some non tv and movie related stuff yeah Do you have an instagram session. This week i kinda do so. I i do so i. I'm like late to the party. But greece's telling me on saturday was down here at. I don't know like in the morning and we were talking about. She's like do you. Follow follow lindsey silberman and i was like oh and she's like she's launching this candle thing and she's like anything could be into it and so i started following her. You get a preordered. His my god she keeps selling them. I ordered them at nine. Am the day that she launched them. So christmas. I think he'd be into this candle thing and i was like. Oh call follow her. So i started falling lindsay silverman this week and i feel like everyone knows who she is is already a huge fan of hers. But i'm really obsessed with getting these candles that i don't even know what the candle smell it. It's called hotel can company and she put them on sale at nine. Am on sunday. And i probably went to try to buy them at like ten o'clock and they were gone. Yeah and so now. The candles are even like more mythical because they like are sold out. And i'm like. I need to know what these candle smell inc. I know i bought both. And i'm it's it's so rare for me to buy a candle without knowing what it's going to smell like. I feel like a lot of time. I don't know what nuts a garwood is totally. It looks set me nothing to me. It's like cool but then you get it and it smells terrible or smells great. And you're like. I don't usually like that note. Yeah yeah but is so funny. I'm really excited for her. She released more. And i missed it. A candidate yesterday man. I didn't even know about that one. Did you sign up for email us. Oh funny well. I will we. You can smell mine when they come got hoffer mythical candle yeah what's yours. Mine is well first of all. I was curious. I'd love to know what yours is. I went to instagram. I sorted it by earliest. Usually sorted by latest to see why most recently followed and my earliest person. The first person i ever followed. Instagram was alicia m lund who at She still has a blog. Called cheetah is the new black and that is where my heart. Because we're still friends. And i still follow her but it just made me laugh. What's yours is my first one. Is my friend. Kyle pace okay. When i joined. None of my regular friends were on instagram. Yeah i was just using it. Like more for like influencers stuff. He's pretty tacky. So i guess he was yeah. Was there early so funny but my obsession is someone that my other obsession which i feel like i talk about melissa. What health like fanatically but shared this woman page which has yazmin y. s. m. i n. n. e. cheyenne c. h. e. y. e. n. n. e. on and she just puts a lot of like really good inspirational quotes up like today's was about taking a break and resting. I really like her. Oh interesting yeah. I'm getting back on the melissa bandwagon resubscribe yesterday. And i did my first melissa workout. So i'm ready to be like on the melissa train again. I love her. I feel like my core has gotten so strive and doing her for like three three months. Every i and i notice a really big difference. I'm sure yeah her workouts sneaky yet. Sneaky howard yeah yeah. What about regular obsessions. So i've to so my first one is when i had my back pain on monday. I went to dwayne reed. And i was like. I need something to fix this. Yeah and i- impulse bought an icy hot patch. And i usually use like the third macaire like the hot one. Not the icy hot ones and holy fuck race. It is magical really. We did use the equilibria cream now. That's so good on a sore muscle. i didn't think about it. Yeah you have that. Though i have it but i didn't know about it but i need to stock up on these icy hot patches. It was magical and s also. I'd also take in thailand. Also at some point i was like yeah. I don't really think it was like after eight hours and i was like. I don't think the icy hot patches doing anything anymore. And i took it off and i was like immediately felt a difference like it was match. Oh wow that's really good to know. I know i'm i'm definitely a convert to that. So it's just like it's like an fall patch. Yeah so that's a very niche obsession of mine and my other one. Is this company. Reach out to me and this doesn't happen to me as much so i was like an usually when it does. It's not something that i actually want. I politely declined but very rarely do like interests align and somebody reaches out to me and they're like hey do you want this thing and i'm like actually i really do. Yeah and so. This company print fresh reached out to me and they were like hey. We'd love to send you some pajamas or a robe. And first of all you know how i feel about robes. Yeah robe life is the best life. Yeah which did you get. Because i have one too i got the one with the like cheetahs jaguars on it. That's like light pink. okay. I have that in blue. Oh funny yeah i actually. I have the light pink nightshirt with the cheetahs on it. It's actually really funny. Because after i got it i took a picture of myself in it. And send it to my group. Tax rachel and maxine and Our tara and then like maxine immediately sent back a photo of her wearing it. And then rachel sent back that. She ordered like unrelated. Louis everyone has it. Yeah but so. I'd seen this robe all over instagram. And you know that. I have a lot of ptsd from instagram brand. I don't know which ones to trust. He has of my greet tablecloth dressed. Debacle of twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. I can't remember when i bottle those terrible dresses and i've just been burned by too many instagram companies. That i haven't heard of it. I don't know how to tell if they're legit. So i'd seen the pajamas and i'm like i want that robe and then they reached out and they're like comedian. This to you. And i was like. Oh you know even if it sucks. Yeah i'm not paying for it. It came like i'm obsessed with us yet there. It's so cute. It's also the kind of robot like i don't like cozy robe. I like a thin rome. Yeah and i don't like a silk robe. I like cotton. it's perfect area. It's so perfect. Yeah so cute. It's like really fun. I have a lot of their stuff. I have three three nightshirts a pair of pajamas and robe. I feel like. I'm i might be into pajamas. I only like short pajamas. So yeah i don't have the pantheon's. I have the shirt the shorts but my favorite is a major Yeah i feel like. I might have to check out. What kind of short pajamas they have. They're really good. What's your obsession. My obsession is goal dune which so this girl woman azzurra pack. Nad is my old intern from bobble. Barred as you know i still. I call her zoe but she goes by his order now. She launched this really cool company. It's called golden. And it's all sustainable. So everything on. The site has a An end like. I think an end plan if that's what it's called but it's just very cool products and she's doing everything so ethically and i'm really impressed. It's very close. So she used to. So she's part of our ecs our crew and i'm always so happy to see people doing amazing things. It made me feel old though like my old. Intern is now of a startup founder. But she before this most recently she storing food fifty two so i feel like she has like access to all this really interesting sourcing. Knowledge about Cool how stuff. So it's all like stuff for your house that sustainable And it's like the best of the best and it's like everything is just beautifully designed like aromatherapy diffusers napkins and laundry pods and. I'm looking at her site right now. There's like being bags and like washable. Reusable mop covers. It's just it's she has really good taste. And i love what they're doing and just like i love the tagline. It says we make being a good person be easier. And then it says i agree on sustainability. Doesn't have to be so bauge. We bridge the gap right. We bridge the gap between what looks good. What works good and feels good so that you can be a conscious consumer without all the homework. I love that. I'm just so proud of her. And i think that she did such a good job with it. Yeah what about bucks. What have you been reading this week. Okay so i've been reading a lot on audio books. I am listening to just mercy by bryan stevenson and actually speaking of movies. I watched the movie last night. I saw your stories about that sobbing hysterically. So i want to say. The book covers so much more ground than the movie. There's so many different cases that come up in the book. The movie is more about the walter mcmillen case but the book goes through several other cases and is just like so much more in depth. So if you're like. I watched the movie. I don't need to read the book. Read the book it's it's just it's wonderful. It's very sad but it is such a good look at all the problems in the criminal. Justice system suing that. Then i read. I read my sister. The serial killer which to be transparent. We were getting not as a possible book for our november book club and just didn't like it enough to be a book club pick. I didn't think there was a good enough discussion around it. I enjoyed it. I felt like so. I think that i thought that it was going to be a thriller and it was more a dark comedy. So it's definitely. It's definitely worth reading and i liked it but i didn't love it. I will also add if you guys know anymore thrillers by black or any just more diverse authors. I would love to hear them. Please go to the facebook group. And let's talk about it there. Because i i did. I really enjoyed tiffany jackson's books. I enjoyed when no one is watching biological. But there's not a lot. And i love thriller a murderer thriller but they're all like i'm looking for like the black live live. Constantine like i'm looking for something like that really late and find on and maybe incorporates but incorporates. Some heavier things kind of like our romance novels do. But i've not finding anything so i would love recommendations for that because obviously thrillers or my john row. But i'm having a hard time finding like light on put down abo- thrillers by black or other Especially women of color so that then. After that i read the unraveling of cassidy homes. And i pass that along to. Because i think she's going to really enjoy it so that it would describe as kind of like daisy johnson. The sex meets the comeback which blows were book club. picks of our. that's gonna be good and So basically it's it's set back and forth between like the early two thousands like think of the britney and justin era love that and Now and it's modern day and one of the members of this girl. Group has killed herself so we go back and forth to note to find out what happened. I didn't love the ending. And i felt like a lot was left unresolved but i just. It was one of those books for us like so excited to sit down and read it and that made me really happy. Lastly i just started last night a book that was recommended to me by my sister. It's a nonfiction book and joyful by ingrid patel lee and it's all about how objects and design can bring us happiness. Oh interesting. That sounds very posters alley. Yeah yeah it's one of her favourite books. She always tells me. I need to read it. And i'm like yeah. Yeah like i've had it for six months and haven't read it. We're gearing up for another fight. Because i saw. I finished kitchens of the great midwest by j ryan stahl and i loved this book so much i like really need you to read it and i already know that you're not elry this site. Maybe you're like telling me in the same way that you told your sister that you're going to rejoin fall but you're not actually planning on it. I know i'm just the thing is that i'm really focused reading diverse authors. And so any books that are written by white men or women like they have to like really grabbed me in order to resolve. It was so good. It is the book of There is a there is a main character that is woven through. But it's about a bunch of distinct stories about different people in the midwest and their relationship with food or the culinary industry and so It was so well done if you like food if you like if you like restaurants if you like i mean i'm sure i'll love this show so well done and it was shocking to me that i hadn't heard more about this. I heard about it in our facebook group. When somebody we're talking about what were the most like your favorite underappreciated bucks and thus came up and I heavily agree. It was so good into. it's a small book. It's like quick. And bring it down. And i i put it in the list. It's just if. I read eight bucks a month and i want at least half of those to be by the more diverse range of authors. That i only got four. I know but. I think that you will just knowing how much you like food. You grew up in a restaurant. I think that you will appreciate this more than the average bear. Okay so i loved that. And then i started. I'm just on a white men kick right now reading books by white men But i started anxious. People by frederick bachmann who is the author of a man called oath. I have that. And i wanna know all your thoughts will so it isn't grabbing me either. It's my pile on him. Like so i felt the same and then i happened to be on good. Reads over the weekend and the reviews. Ritter fantastic over and all the reviews. Talk about how funny it is. I'm only like fifty pages. Then so i can't really opine it's a kind of a police procedural but it's kind of like a wacky police procedural so I'm it's about a robbery in. It's basically like a robbery happens in the first couple pages. That goes wrong. Like a guy tries to rob a bank and like gets nervous and like runs into an house across the street and then like holds everyone hostage for an hour and then disappears and the police are trying to solve this crime and in so it's not like the crime happens right up front. It's not like yeah. Everyone's fine like it's not like scarier dangerous or anything so it's kind of like wacky police procedural and it is very funny so far. It's not my usual genre. But i really loved a man called open so i was like well. Let's see it's getting so many good reviews so then such good press. I just haven't. I keep looking at magna not today while i'll let you know that's week when i'm finished and in the meantime if you are looking for a buck. We announced our november book club. Pick on instrument in the facebook group. But if you haven't heard yet we are reading destination wedding by dick. Show basu and we're going to discuss the last week of the month like usual and this is a really fun one so i first of all it looks like a romance from the cover and it's not it's more like a complicated family book and so it is about a woman named tina dos. Who's in her early thirties. And she's a tv producer. And she's going to delhi india with her parents and their significant others for a wedding of her cousin. And it's a very fancy crazy over the top wedding. Yeah and she's bringing along her best friend as well and so it's about the wedding and the internet her family immediate family with her parents and then kind of like her friendship with the scale and it's it was great. I just i loved the book from cover to cover. And i also had this feeling when i was reading it that i would be best friends with the main character and wayne he a real person. Same i loved her loved her so i really excited. I think there's a ton to discuss about this book. I think it will be a really good discussion. So i hope you'll pick it up and read it along with us and in the meantime if you'd like to talk to us more about your favourite tv shows or movies or thoughts on our favorite tv shows or movies. Let's chat in the facebook group. And if you have any rom. Comrex that i haven't seen i want all of them or thrillers by divers hours yes and you can also follow us on instagram. At bat on paper podcast. I'm on instagram. At grace atwood and i blog every single day except sundays at the stripe dot com so not every single day. I'm on instagram at bam. Lazy about becca freeman. Us like really emphasized every single day every day besides sunday. Most people don't publish new content every day. No i know but you were like every single day you really except for one of them and My other podcast come pods. There are still two weeks left. I think so. If you haven't checked it out. I would love you to give it a try. It's completely different than this. It's a fiction podcast and let me think too. All right bye guys.

cia jack ryan fifteen percent becca freeman grace atwood nancy meyers Heart gration fourteen minute Melissa health two million dollars dr foster sixty inch heiss fbi Piper perot gilbert bligh anna green gables laura lie johnstons creek abc
Undisputed Era Member: Kyle O'Reilly

E&C's Pod of Awesomeness

1:31:19 hr | 2 years ago

Undisputed Era Member: Kyle O'Reilly

"You are entering EMC's all of this. So before we came on air, if that's indeed what you do with a podcast, the Birdman said to pitcher pattern. Let's get out her good. That's a good Canadian thing. That's right. Am I wrong or am? I right. Factor. Apropos battery pull though as our guest today is one young Jedi Kylo Riley from Vancouver. Maybe wanna throw that out there too and ask should if he because he's western Canada. And maybe a western Canada thing too. So this completes our month of undisputed. Awesomeness today. It is. Yeah. Vaguely remember the Skype on apple podcast Kuka podcasts on the Android apps. Spotify. Tune institure. However, you listen to these damn things don't forget to leave us a. From lash view. Get get get out the salacious one off. I did guard their condoms news little though, he's going to do to make himself. Look good. There's gonna be no gap in between that at all. When this goes right up, you guys or. There's like it's gonna play right after the last word, Adam said, there's no gap. I gotta put myself over somehow, you know, no one will hear the pause. That's all right. All right. You might be able to hear the girls larrikin ruby upstairs there in the midst of the bedtime process. The Phoenix one will get to her later. She's a real road warrior so to speak lately while we'll we'll get to that. We'll get to that. But that's what you may hear rumblings above. Hey, you can follow or Riley. I didn't just have a stroke at on Twitter at Keio our combat and Instagram at Keio combat. So there's that right. And you could follow us at ENC pod. And at on Twitter, by the way, and unin scream. It's at E C pot of awesomeness. All right. So they're all that's done. All that's done. Let's get to. Let's get to that. Let's cut to cut to the bone, man. Let's get through eat. Let's let's get that bone. Sil-? Yeah. So hey, before I forget before we go any further one thing that I keep meaning to mention that. We haven't mentioned is the fact that jazzy Gabbard our good, buddy. She signed to me she can be with WBZ UK, and I could not be more happy for someone. So so happy for glad it all worked out. I'm glad she didn't give up on her dream and continue to follow it. And you know, after every show I've been hot damn we didn't talk about jazzy so super happy for way to go. I'm doing a golf clap, actually, wait. Yeah. And you know, what a looks rocket strapped. It doesn't necessarily mean. It's going to happen tomorrow. No this Kofi. They take off at different different different times. So Kofi strap don't worry Kofi is going to be strapped and look out there. But she's great story. If you haven't heard it, go back and listen to the ENC pod from the Irqah, brother. It was a really good one. So yeah. Congratulations the jazzy. Yup. All right. So what happened this week? Want happen Birdman where we can get to the paper you in a second. But Harlem heat going in the hall teeth will end up being the third person. Although I is second or third Shaun's doing at the same night. Rick flair. Shawn Michaels Booker T both two-time recipients of the hall of fame honor. Yeah. I think it's it's very very cool. I saw Booker couple of weeks ago at Rick's party. And it's not that you forget everything that booker's done. But man, Booker my gosh, I mean that that guy really really if if you wanna point to any point on the card. Take whatever he was given whether it be, you know, GI bro on you know, to to just every king Booker. I mean my gosh. Right. And and then his team with Steve Ray. I mean, hugely influential, you know. And I think doom to me was always the kind of the team that I kind of at least for our era broke down some barriers. And then Harlem, he took it and ran. Yeah. The thing is too like this. They had this different. Look about them to write like the tights with the thing around the neck, and it wasn't wasn't quite a singlet. But I mean, just an the fire on and then the, you know, the sunglasses, and you know, they had the, you know, they they could talk they could both talk out with something that was pretty cool about it as well. Right. They had that they had that obviously, they're their brothers in real life. So they had that that chemistry as well where they could just kind of play off each other and that made their promos berry. Very entertaining. And in the ring, you know, you had the big power guy and Stevie Ray and Booker, you know, was the was the was the mover and shaker. It's like the the Hart foundation formula, or the, you know, where there's the, you know, the powder keg. And then there's the, you know, the or Morocco Norton tank and technician now that that idea. Yeah. So or escape power man were the power, man. Yes. Got that rangy that rain ten shrink other. Yeah. Congratulations are said, they were they were very very influential influential, right man, we are all over the place. Just stumbling like a couple of. Fox anyways should have been our tag. They were they were one of my favorite tag teams back in the day. Especially when I was breaking into the business. Watch them a lot Big Ben both guys like the both. So it can be happier. Breed Bella announced she has retired from from wrestling on total Bellas. I, you know, I it's I imagine having kids. It's it just engines realized how all consuming, all encompassing. That is you know. And right. I would assume that would be the main reasoning for it, and they're just come to point. Right. So good for her. Right. And while she has other stuff going on, obviously. Right. Yeah. With total Bellas in total divas in that whole thing and other ventures. I would assume, but also, you know, it's hard when you have two parents and you can attest to this as well in the business and traveling like that with that schedule it makes things really really hard. So. There's got to be one of your home. They're really does it. I don't know how it would be possible to pull off to parents on the road. And I think, you know, once once a child gets past the first few months, it's really hard to travel with kids. So you know, it becomes a thing. But good for her again, I'm speculating that. That's the reason why but. She can tire and contentment. And or she can retire in bliss. Here's a segue. What's list post? And see what I did there. Kurt angle wrestling, farewell match wrestlemainia. How's that make you feel? He's joining us on our Tom. I mean, I mean, I think it's good for them. I mean, he he doesn't have been left approve. He's already know already going to go down as one of the greatest of all time. So. Feels like that's what he needs for himself than than than it's great. And it's great to go out on your own terms in with us. We were kinda told like you can't do this anymore. But he kinda gets go out and and have one more match wrestlemainia, and and and put his put his in ring career behind him. But like he's he's so revered in the business of sure he will be around and we'll be face and a personality for long time. All right here. Here's the the the forty one dollar question. Then who does wrestle? Who man who who? Who will I thought we had smack? It's for a second there. Glock versus the pulse or small package. What I don't know man ankle versus small package. Oh, yeah. Can you? It's gotta be a way. I'm I'm thinking. I'm thinking sina. Yeah. But will. Yeah. John's first match, I you know, Auster match was against Kurt. I mean, why not that way? John doesn't have to get involved in a storyline. It doesn't have to impede on any other thing. It's a huge marquee match ups could co make sense from storyline standpoint. You know, I'm glad I thought of that great idea. Yeah. I'm draggers here. You know? That's what we do book the shit. I like the idea of a little like a Brock Shelton unit. That's pretty cool. I did you also funny. Here's a funny tidbit that somebody tweeted me that was Shelton's first match on raw since he wrestled me in two thousand nine on raw. Wow. Crazy crazy. It's pretty crazy. Degrades good matches Shelton. A freak. He's a freak you still. He has to work out though, as as he detailed to us on a previous incarnation of this pod. And you can go back and listen to that when we had the gold standard on. Is he the gold standard without the without the blonde hair? I don't think he is any more cocky is right. And the Phoenix one Phoenix g back Phoenix one flap in those wings of fire wings them all over the place. Right. Yeah. Was the deal with civilian meals the deal? I mean general I don't know nothing. I don't know nothing. I mean, I was there. I was scared to help her. But of course, I yeah. How about that? I'm looking after the kids, and you know, everybody's like, oh man is gonna run out and attack nyah. Yeah. Okay. And and she'd be my ass. No Bergman at all. Yeah. I read to bail out on the on the pre show panel. No, she leave. So. Yeah. Yeah. So I it's I won't spoil anything. But I think it's cool. I think it's I think it's gonna be fun. And I think that really is the most important thing, you know. Yeah. We'll see. We're goes, folks. We'll see where it goes. We'll see Phoenix one Phoenix. I might I might be pull more data duty in the next while though Phoenix getting fired up get it. Oh, and I'm not gonna lie. I I was close to being defeated and tapping out to them this weekend. Yeah. There there there are formidable tag team. Be when they team up my gosh. So yeah, I was like you got you got bedtime tonight. Honey, I'm gonna go to the bud. No shit. Whatever. Hey, I wanna get your take on something. Okay. All right. Get it. So so the the annex t call ups we've talked about them, right? We've talked about how it's seems kinda like Auden and kind of just I don't know where what do you think of black and ricochet teaming? I think I'm not sure that it was maybe set out to be that. But it, you know, it gives them a good kind of storyline to commend to. And I don't think you're gonna see them stuck together. Not all say stuck together put together because they're not stuck together both super talented. But I think the in my opinion, I don't know anything. This is just my opinion that that was probably a way to introduce them with the tag match and kinda worked so on the next week with that. And then it just kind of morphed into this. And like I said I feel like it's a good good storyline for them to dip their toes into it together feel comfortable. And then when the time is right move move separately and doing your own thing. But you're a little bit established before that happens. Because like we said there is there. The people want to believe it or not there is a bit of a difference in audience as far as exte- and rar smack now. And that was that was my take two is a lot of times the transition coming over you can tell it's it's difficult. You know, kind of thing to navigate and I'm from backstage all the way. To you know, now, it's live and all of those things. So I actually I dig the idea till to let them, you know, I think back to when when we teamed, you know, when they initially, you know, how to start teaming because at first it was just odd and kind of floundering, and it was much easier for us. I think is a team because we knew each other. But I feel like it's an easier transition for and what I like about it is they're they're both very very special. And I think that nothing will get wasted. I guess for for lack of a better term like I don't they're being taken care of right now. And that's that's a good thing. Because I think there's a lot of upside to both guys. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. I think so too. I think it's a smart move in like you said before there's that comfort level of us coming in together. And you know, and playing off each other as well right in that helps build your confidence and your character. Yeah. And even though I'm Haber and even just visually. It's like, okay. I don't really the team doesn't make sense. But the those guys have known each other from annex t there's there's a comfort level there. And they've been able to make their styles, mesh and work. And and really, you know, made it work make it made it fun to watch too which brings major to the tag title match with them the revival and glorious at at Faslane, and I didn't realize that's the first time. The raw tag team titles have been defended on a pay per view in like a year. Are you serious, which is crazy? Yeah. That's what I'm here for bourbon. And. I thought it was really really cool. There is so many cool things done in that match super super talented people in there. And and it was really fun to see I may the one in particular. I think it was an O'Connor roll up into a roll roll through German into pin? But then here comes, you know, the the flying bulldog keg that his dash wilder in into, you know, a stocky splash. Yeah. I could say that he lived in my apartment for year. I'm allowed to write. No. It was good match. I didn't realize that about the raw tells, but it also shows, you know, what in here kind of recent history. These guys have been able to start to like we talked about going out there and performing almost with chip on your shoulder. Right. They've all been doing that. And you kind of force your way. Hey, the show is gonna be better for on it. And that's what that's what you want to start getting that footing. And it seemed like they're they're they're getting that. Now when it's great because they're they're they're worked their asses off even live events. You know, you hear about these amazing matches. They're having on live events and things like that. You know, it only helps to kind of how it happened with us as well. You know, we were getting good feedback on matches that we were having with heart. He's on live events and in turn it gave us more TV time. So hanging back gets back. It really really does. And if and if your your phone at it in on on how shows that's going to get noticed too. And you know, I like the fact a guy like, you know, Bah. Bobby who's been around? My gosh. I think you know, I was like his fourth match or something like that on an India in Hamilton, which again, you can go back and listen to on a previous party. And so you got a ring general and they're like him, and then, you know, all these young hungry guys. And Gable is just to me an absolute star waiting to happen. Not that he isn't already. But the guy so super talented and his able to adapt to whatever team they keep putting him in and able him. Him. There you go. That could be the new don't hinder gender. Yeah. Be fair to flare. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanna say this. The Oscar Oscar retained smackdown women's title over Mandy rose. We talk we'll be an impressive. And I really just you know, thought it was good. But also wanted to say on the pre show, I was previewing the match, and I guess I said Aasa, and then of course, you know, my my Twitter feed blows up with the twelve tweets from. What what's voice us? Yeah. I can't believe your best. Put outs. That's right. Rates oskaka. It's Oscar it would call you Christianne. Right. Yes. Lorie riding a little extra something into it. You know, I'm live TV when under time constraints. But whatever. Yeah. But you gotta not get it wrong. Again, twelve people. I promise you. Cobb and Brian's practice practicing it ever since. Scott. She defeated Mandy rose. Yeah. Yeah. So. I didn't get to see a whole lot else of the paper you so I didn't get to see shield. I didn't see Becky I didn't get see. And I really wanna see this one because I saw some clips of it of Debray Kevin owns in an alley, and it was a tough position to be in. Because the, you know, Kofi mania and everything. But I like to see that. And I want to talk about. Say that it was. Okay. It was it was a tough situation to get thrown in. But by the end, you know, they had them invested which is what you want. They work their way out of it. Yeah. Right. Because they're all great. And with enough time. That's that's what you can do. But just. Yeah. Going into it, very tough situation, Raman stereo, man. He's eight he's Benjamin button. He's aging in reverse what what is going on. I don't know. But I hate him. I kinda hate them to even though I love him. I think I hate them. And not only that. But I don't think I've seen a match of his recently where he doesn't hasn't done something that is completely new which should not be possible for him because he's done everything. But he's doing like double flying her Coronas. And sure a lot of that has show. There was. Yeah. Just grazie innovative insane stuff. So good, and that's a huge tip of the hat to the guys is working to. Because obviously there they're talked before to right like raise the legend. So, you know. Yeah. When people heard that he was come back. I don't mean people lining up with their hands up saying, oh, all work. I want to work with them there. You know, he's he's he's that type of of performer that you know, when you hear people talk about their dream match a lot of people would say, Ramos stereo. So you know, that these guys thrill for them to be in there with them. I just a magin a fatal four way with like dry day. Ray me ricochet, and you yes. Thank you. Let's say I don't know it. Let's say AJ. Yeah. Just just think about that. Yeah. Crazy craziness. Let's go back to the fact that you you had a chance to to do a run in and make the save for the Phoenix one for Betty. But you didn't do it. Which is awesome is usually you take the opportunity to put yourself over didn't though I was put myself over because here's what would happen. Here's what would have happened to me would have super kicked your stupid little. There's reasons why didn't go out there. And that was one of them. Yeah. Okay. It was basically that was maybe the only reason I didn't go that was all right. We're getting the do proud to retain matter. Scared scart. Scurred skirts. Here's what else he got. What do you wanna talk about? Well, I mean just want to say this to great to see Roman reigns back. Yes. Absolutely. And we'd talked about it before I had a chance to speak with them. Real quick. It's good to catch up with them, man. He's just he's a good, dude. And just on a on a human level just that he's healthy is is trumps everything. So well, so. On on a very real level. Like what what wrestling's entertainment. It's a highly physical form of entertainment, there's injuries and there's the grind of the road and all of those things, but you're talking about leukemia. Those those that's obviously a bigger thing. And so yeah, like, you said on a human level. It's it's really good to see you know, that he's able to come back, which means more importantly that. He's healthy. So probably get ready for we should do it. I guess we should do it to to to close out our month of undisputed awesomeness after I slap your ass. And before we talked to Callow Riley. Let me tell you about Ray con ear buds, look, it's two thousand nineteen. Everyone needs a great pair of wireless ear buds. But if we drop in hundreds of dollars on a pair you need to check out wireless ear buds from rate com. 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He's totally going to, you know, throw a monkey wrench in the whole like, you know, promptness of you guys. But you didn't look at that. Impressive. Usually I'm a bit of a Matt tardy when it comes to being on time for stuff, but I just want to be late for this. So make sure. Right. As the clock. You talk eight thirty. You just dropped Matt tardy this off to. Late this skull for classes, Sean, and I didn't get a chance to use it then. So I thought I'd try and use it now. Use it here, man. That's that's what we're here for is based on unused material. Just spit it out here. So thanks for coming on the show we ever really. Yeah. We haven't had a chance to actually like really really talk. So I'm looking forward to this. It was similar to to Bobby last week. And I'm sure you heard how that went. So. Yeah. The way the show works is pretty ridiculous good, you're gonna get some. I gotta get something out of the way right now. And if not it's going to bother me entire interview, and I won't be able to focus. Canadian saying pitter-patter, let's get out her as a Canadian saying or not. I'm very familiar with it. And my dad would say that all the time. He really so many of those like Canadian as is I feel like I feel like we're going going crazy and you're coming with me, and he was. King chores jeans and like the denim shirt and denim the hat and powder. Let's get out or was a always. What's that? No. I said at the start of the pod Bakshi before when Adam said are you ready to roll? And we hadn't even started yet. And I said hitter pats get out her. Then he brought it up once on to try to embarrass me. And I said, no, it's a Canadian saying, and then he kind of wondered if it really was. And then I said, you know, we we have a Canadian coming on. He could probably settle the score for us here. But I don't know if is necessarily a western Canadian thing. But now we find out what it's all Canada jitters, but. Oh, you even change it a bit. Like it put a Pat him. Let's get at them. Oh. You know, what I really learned since coming to an ex teased doubt. If what what they're giving you and you know, make the best you can. Hey, well, guess what you are. So now before we go go too far in or whatever, I gotta say your guys matches. Roddy? And in particular because you know, Bobby was out. I mean, just some the stuff in the creative ways you got into things and just you can tell the students of the game that you guys are. And it just really really fun to watch coming from two guys that obviously love tag team wrestling. It's been really really. A real pleasure to watch it, man. So I just wanna get that out of the way fry gray on the very shades coming from you guys being taking specialists, you know, all I can say is. I think I speak for me an Roddy. When just we love to feed for a comeback. You know, I love to sell things and flip-flopping fly and take as they say entertaining ass-whipping. Guess. They make money. For sure I love just to sit down, you know, calling a match whether it's a tag or a singles and just say, hey, what do you wanna do to my body like what's your comeback? And they'll you know, they'll say this that and the other and oh, well what if we do this? So you could talk me into Roddy. And then grab him and throw me doing him over to me. And just like, oh and guys are usually like, oh, that's yeah. That's a great idea. Thanks. That's awesome. Let's do that. Know, that's what I really love about. This art form is is getting the options, you those things. And it's funny that you say art form because it is it really is. It's it's every match is a movie or or a half an hour, drama or half an hour comedy, depending on the match. It really is such a chance to get a create a creative people do this job. There's no way around it. If you're not creative. It's not gonna work for you. And I think that's really what I've taken from watching. Your guys stuff is just how just creative. It is and stuff that I'd like to take credit for thinking of. But I'd see it and go, dammit. Why didn't I think of that? There's not I watched that. I can say that. And I can truly say that with you guys. Question gonna tag that. So we can't take credit. But definitely appreciate it. Absolutely. What you guys are currying theme. You know? And and I think that's when I when I start to see a recurring theme throughout with all these creative things happening. I'm like, okay. Well, these guys are clearly onto something. Sure. But that was very you to to pass the credit. I like that. Right by doll, all me. But. I'm going to say every time I go now. It'd be looking for. Murphy's another good Canadian. When Jesus Murphy, bud. Jeez. Murphy. But. We asked the other guys this. We had them on. What was what was the moment that you stumbled upon wrestling and kind of like that moment of what is this? And the realization is like need to know more about this. And then what move to do this one of my first memories? Like actual first memories is at a video store and seeing a poster of Cogan ripping his shirt off and getting like a VHS tape of one of the wrestlemanias or whatever. And then I remember running around my kitchen putting on like a like a Safeway grocery bag like a tank top ripping it off because like way HOGAN shirt, rip plastic. There's no way a human can rip like an actual sure. Like that. So right. That's how I associated it. And I was lifelong fan ever since and, you know, just during like, the whole attitude Arab, boom, and everything all things taken to a whole new level and became just absolutely. Absolutely obsessed and my dad took me to my first live show, which which happened to be a pay per view in Vancouver's WWF presents rock bottom. Nineteen ninety eight in your house. And I remember everything about it. Like, I remember just. The feeling I got when I first walked up the steps and look down at the ring. I can remember the smell of that the x t shirts that I got like I just was such a profound moment close closest to the religious experiences. I've ever had that I knew at that moment when I'm gonna pursue. This is what I'm gonna do with my life. Like, no matter how it pans out. Like, whether you know, I make it or not this is just would I love to do. It's. That job squad on that show. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Craze did it's so I often wonder like what is it chemically that is inside all of our brains that causes us the because I felt the same way, you know, the first time I walked into maple leaf gardens. I just went I same thing. I can remember the smell. I can remember the way it felt I can remember doing that the hub of that audience before it started in the excitement and the build and then that first person coming out in the ramp, and it just it it blew my little mind, but I truly special. It makes me wonder if like in other mediums and other artists like they have that same moment, you know, like here when he sees a movie if you get that same sort of buzz really wrestling just that specialty. I sometimes think it really is. There's nothing really like it in the entertainment world. The only thing I can think of is a concert may be or maybe a player because because there live, you know, in in in the moment of something. But yeah, I think there's a certain wiring. That is is in all of us that it connects for whatever reason. So. Yeah, man, I can't believe we route your first show working. Oh my God. It's crazy. I know. But on the flip side that we were really young then. So we're really. So you guys are just a little bit older than now. Because that was what Joe? Question after that. I was got hooked and just looking up any independent wrestling that was around. And there was a local promotion called e c w that was like a local Vancouver promotion and starting going to those shows it'd be a little bit older before go to shows and everything, but then I started. Oh, wow. Independent wrestling like, I didn't it was just a whole new awaking to what else was out there. And that was a whole other experience into of itself as well when I was talking about growing up and watching wrestling we used to watch wrestling pretty much all Saturday afternoon, and these two have this resident is probably before your time. But it was called BC all star wrestling. They shot it in town. Ringing up was was the was a commentator, and I think he was old or something. Yeah. And like, whoa, Joe the BC hulk and only Olsen moose Morowski spiderweb all these issues Vern Siebert vicious assurance wrecked. My very first match really vicious fern look at that. Well, so and throughout your travels, and and your time out in BC, I'm guessing that you had to run into Paul Lazenby. Of course, of course, it goes on. He's been very helpful to me during my career. Like, he was a guy who I could contact like when I when I left VC came to the states, and you know, there was times where I would lose face and just him for things are going so great, and I would just reach out to Paul and you just keep me motivated, and he would say something that like get watch a match of mine and just give me like some new motivation or inspiration to just keep plugging away and everything so not to put him over too much. But he was he was helpful guy. I'll ruin that. He just probably said don't end up like me. And as much as I detest him on a completely personal level. It's nice that you you were able to have that person to go to because I mean, everybody needs that. And the reason I test Paul's that he claims he still went over me on a show and cat lake or God's lake narrows. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's his claim to fame that he'll cling to the rest of his life, but never have to. It's all the lie. But but but seriously, though, it's it's so good to have that person that you can reach out to because everyone's port, you know, everyone gets helped to make it in this business. I think like you. So you can't make it on your own. Everyone gets a helping hand somewhere in the other. So you know, you plug away in the Indies, and you're doing this and everything like during your training. Was there a point where you thought man, I could be pretty good at this. Yeah. Like. I don't I don't wanna like sound too cocky or anything. But I felt like the first time like getting ring it was like a fifty water like I just felt like I could rule and a bomb and like, obviously, I could watch what I did. Then now and it was atrocious. But I just felt like so natural in the ring. And I don't know I think maybe like being a lifelong fan like that. Hell like, I remember practicing the sharp shooter on a pair of jeans like over and over. Whatever just because. Matches against pillows and stuffed animals and stuff like that. So I felt like. I felt like. Grasp on it. But you know, it was it would take obviously a long time before I was actually good at this. But it just I felt so comfortable and so natural, and I just felt like that fewing after the match, you know, when you're up all night and Drennan dump is just so intense. You can't sleep, and it's just like that was just hooked out slightly hook. Well, okay. A couple of things I wanna I wanna talk about here coming off of that. First of all, John I used to wrestle with pillows. So would do is. He would toss it to me. And we try and do the closest approximation to Steiner line as we could. So. And if the toss people. Yeah. It it all depended on the toss. So if it was a bad toss, and I didn't hit that Steiner line right at blamed it on Jay vice versa. It was bad. That was bad to us. Otherwise, I would hit a perfect. No, of course, not gonna be pillow. So we would Steiner line pillows and do the same thing. But I've never ever heard someone that put a sharp shooter on jeans before that. My favorite story. I've ever heard doing this pod. There was just it was a bread Majerus might have even been in Owen match, actually. And you put it on. I think it was only because I did with the right leg bread. Always did it with his left leg through. So would use his right. And so I think that's how I I learned how to do it. And I would just I had a pair of jeans because it was always watching in the laundry room, and like my sisters jeans or hang their drying practicing on this, and she got pretty pissed, but. So sharpshooters one of my. George Bush, but you're gonna put your. Sorry GW. Geez. Okay. So well, and the other thing that I want to, you know, tell you coming off of that story in terms of like feeling like you you picked it up pretty quickly this going to sound like I'm blowing smoke, but I truly mean this. I don't I've never seen someone that moves like you in the ring in all the years that I've watched wrestling in in all the years that I've seen like Barry Windham has a certain way he moves. And there's certain guys that you can just hell it's them. You're one of those guys. I don't think I've ever seen someone that moves the same way. You do that strikes. The same way you do that goes into things the way you do. It's very very unique. And like, I don't think anyone else could do it. And I mean that is huge compliment. Because like when you're in there. I just wanna watch to see what way you're going to go in to this. Or how you're you're. Is just it's it's I don't even know how to explain it. That is a huge confident. I don't really know how to answer that. I just. Per se. But I don't know. There's so many guys have just been such a huge influence on me growing up in watching wrestling. You know, I just tried to pick up little things from all my favorite guys. And I don't know if that's just a little bit of everybody that sort of helping. I don't know who who were your favorites. Well, you know, growing up as a kid and candidates like if you were a Canadian rustler like I was a fan. You know, of course, Bret Owen Ben wa yourselves engine Christian Jericho, Lance storm like I was just a huge fan of all the Canadian wrestlers because they were such good ring technicians. And that's something that I really appreciate it. And like, of course, like, you know, during the area era guys like stone cold, and Sean and Mick Foley, huge influences on me. But like once I really started raking down. You know, what this art form is? And what it is to be a worker guys that I would study like guys that like just sold. Well, like, I really like was like well like that really just changed my whole outlook on wrestling. Like, I guess I guess like my mouth Rushmore wrestling salesman would be like HP K trick Hennig, Terry funk and Toshiaki Kawada. Maybe like RIC flair if. There's a fifth guy up there. You know? I try like just guys would sell well for guys and take good bump through people and just move and unique ways and make things look believable like non like over the top sillier funny. But like a little of that. But not too far down like still able to pull it back and be serious like in violent and me like something about those guys that really that. I really tried to capture in my work. Selling is the key to good selling is making the audience feel your pain. Right. Absolutely. All the all those people you just listed were able to convey that that you bring them in you, let the menu let them feel your pain in. That's you go from there. One hundred percent. I saw an example a of all of those names that you just mentioned, but but also the point of something that could be silly. But then turning on its head and the other night, you did it in the match for the dusty Rhodes where you went through the top and middle popped back. And then when I've never seen it done between the second and bottom rope. Kellet? Spot the Nigel McGuiness really popularized in the mid two thousands of honor that something that kind of started doing, and I was forced to do it on the bottom rope once in a matches Rodrigue strong, actually at PWG we had like this big sort of blood feud blow off natch, and he took the top rope down and strangled me with or whatever. So they're literally was no top rope. And I did the spot like wonder if I could do it on on the bottom the middle able to pull it on. I thought it may be down on it. And do it back back to back in an XT. So yeah, it was I always try like I feel like I always try and do something new that I've never done before. And of course, like a a super important match high pressure situation that you think you I would try these things, you know, for four or something or before heading crash bad. But it's like well just going to pull it out when it's when everything's on the line, and you know, that'll force me to to get it. Right. A great point because a lot of times when when you're you know, in the frying pan. That's that's when some of those things that you just ain't maybe give this a shot. And then you listen to it and go, okay. Well that work that's now in the arsenal. Was just until like two matches go either. Now that my new big close finish that I can do. So it feel like it's it's the beautiful thing about this year. Always evolving, always creating new things you can do. And and take from other guys to like, you know, not blatantly rip off in steal things. Like take a little bit of something here that hasn't been seen in a while. And as you guys know nothing in pro wrestling is really truly original. No, no. And that's just it you, but you do make it feel distinctly your own just by the way, you move. The like, I said, you have a very I don't know just a very distinct way that you move. And but but you're right like flying knee drop. That's you know, killer Kowalski, that's how he, you know, air quotes ripped off on Eric's ear was it. I think I'm going way back there. So. The historic asked you where did you train originally trained under gorgeous? Michelle Starr in BC. So I basically graduate high school and went straight to wrestling school and started training with him. And a couple of guys would help train me like a local guy named Scotty MAC and actually a legally blind wrestler by Aaron idol who was a huge influence on me and my styles. Well, he introduced me to like Japanese pro wrestling, and that totally just changed my outlook as well. And so like, I've just I've always been, you know, a guy just always wanting to keep training and keep learning. And so I I also like, you know in its wrestling, you never wanna stop learnings pick up cancer. And they're like I'd say tons of guys helped quote, unquote trained me, but the guy who really broke me into the business taught me like my first bumps was Michelle Starr, actually others as well. You guys are familiar? Know we've had them on the show as well. It's good to good to see some young Canadian boys out there or more vote. Jeez. Oh, jeez. Every dog Canadians giveaway. What's going on? Decide that after know working the independence and stuff in in Canada. What was the decision and how hard of decision? What's that to to? You know, when I think I need to to go south to go to the US like like, did you just pick up and go where did you have a plan or what was what was that? I felt like I was kind of outgrowing the scene there. I was you know, doing some India's like in Albert in Washington state, Oregon, and it just felt like, you know, and I told the only way you get better at this is to to work with guys that had more experienced and guys that were better than you. And I just I felt like I wasn't really getting that there because not a lot of guys are being brought in. And it was just like, you know, I wanna make a real dab at this. I gotta go where you opportunities are. So there was a couple of guys that I worked with in Washington named Davey Richards. And Tony Zena they were like helping train at a school in. Saint Louis, Missouri. And so there was an open invitation if you know, you wanna come out and crash on the coach and train and drive to shows us and come on out. No, it was like hell, yes. So basically saved up the whole summer of two thousand nine and loaded up my Chevy cavalier, and it's not the border and never came back. Of what are you doing reporter agents? Yes. A on the order. They know. Would come back now and again, just because I would run out of cash money. And so I would have to come home for like a month long stint here, and there just to new get get a job and save up 'cause I couldn't really work down here. I wasn't making enough wrestling. So eventually to the point where it just wasn't worth the risk anymore. A couple of close calls at the border. And I was like, you know, like my career is going to take just one guy having a bad day to really look into me. And you know, that would be it would be banned shudder her to think, you know, in this day and age if I was doing the same thing how today's political climate is with immigration and everything like how would be now. But yeah, it was just I was really lucky man. I had a lot of my sons, I really think universals looking for me and really wanted me to make it because I got denied a visa several times. Just because I was trying to do everything by the book. And eventually, I was I I have to stay here. And so I was literally like an illegal alien. Ian in the US for over two years until I finally got a green card and Guinea, you know, story worth telling it it was about a girl. And I finally that girl might dreams and choose American I married her and got that green card so things worked out. It's it's amazing to hear everyone that we've had on the show has some some version of something that they've been through or or huge risks that they had to take in order for this to all pay off. And probably if you're on this, then it's paid off. Otherwise, we wouldn't know who anybody is care, but. Care about unless you made it. Really care. What to do like about that story to was the way you pronounced couch. What did I say couch would coach? Is there? The pot of awesomeness universe. Yeah. Did you? I wasn't sleeping on the field sleeping with the Chesterfield's. So you're down in the states now, and how's everything start slowly progressing because you know, like anything there's nothing that happens fast in this industry. Sure, there's always so much that goes into it that isn't seen. Right. Well, I when I left I really had like these intentions I wanted to go to Japan, so bad, you know, on unready, I was nowhere near ready at that point. This is two thousand nine I I wouldn't go Japan until two thousand fourteen but I really like I wanted to go the path of being you know, like a quote unquote, independent star. Like, there's a lot of those guys were, you know, from what I thought doing really well like ring of honor is really blowing up and blowing up guys going from ring of honor to WWE like, man. This is the path I wanna go and a lot of guys I looked up to Roderick strong included. We're at the top of that. So I wanted to get in with ring along or and so I started just showing that their shows and maybe get like a dark match here and there and about a year of of doing that showing up at shows and takings indie bookings, I possibly could well to work doing like some maintenance. Jobs for my wind Lord under the table that also helped me out a lot in the money department. But yeah, it was about like a year after leaving September two thousand ten ring of honor. I drove out from Saint Louis to Boston for show. It was like a nineteen hour drive, and I had a evolve booking in jersey the day after and right after I got to that launched. I worked the match, and they offered me my first contract and pro wrestling, and that was just a huge moment for me. Like, of course, it wasn't for like heaps cash or anything like that. But it was just like it was like, whoa. Like Khan signed my name on wrestling contract. Oh my God. So I was buzzing and slept in my car that night on the way down to. The debris back to earth. A while would be able to say anything along the lines actually making it, but that was like a it was getting these bones here. And there that just kept me going, you know, like a big match against a, you know, a guy with a ton of experience would be like a bone that was throwing those little bones. Just kept me motivated and kept me going and. Yeah, that was a big deal. I remember that same weekend after the Volve show ring of honor out another show in in New York in Manhattan center and Adam Cole, and I we took the train into the city to to watch the show. We weren't booked for the show, but we'd both just signed with of honor at like the exact same time and recommend Hatton center. I'm like, oh, man. This is so cool like you'd worked each other like maybe six months before that. And like one of our I like big buzz really matches. It started putting both of our names on the map per se. And we were we were watching the show. And we said like, oh, man. How could it be? If we wrestled against each other final. Battle this December in the Manhattan center on that. Because I was like on hyper you, so awesome, dude. And then lo and behold, we would we would form a tag team, and we would open that show as a tag team three months later in December file battles. That was really cool. Well, we'll get to how great it must feel to to work with all of those guys in annex, t you know, with the kind of history that you all have. But so in ring of honor. That's I mean, that's where I first started hearing about you and kind of catching wind of what was happening. How how did it feel like the transition was? And when did you feel like, okay, I'm finding the groove. Like, you're out of the training. You're you're you're starting to work more experienced people at this point. What point did you feel like you were you're starting to hit the groove of the direction you want to go the awhile disappoint. I was still like in my mind. Like, I didn't really know who Kylo Riley was sounds like I didn't really have any character direction. I was just a guy who who wrestled and had what I thought was somewhat decent matches. It wouldn't be for a couple years. I think I started really getting my groove went off the United States team up which would have been I think in two thousand twelve. And then, you know, we started looking at this whole thing as like, okay? Well, what is like what are characters and then started to really break that down. I started to kind of come out to my show and really find comfort in this whole thing. 'cause I've always like just sort of anxious, and uneasy, I would you know, I was confident in the ring and stuff, but in terms of like, cutting promo or or even describing who I was the character. I really had no idea. So yeah, I'd say. Teaming up with Bobby really helped me in that regard. It's funny that you just mentioned that because before you came on we were talking about when we came in and the importance of, you know, sometimes when when you're you're they said in the ring you felt comfortable, but your personality wasn't necessarily your strong suit or talking in front of people are in front of a camera on the microphone, but having that comfort level of somebody that you're completely hundred percent comfortable with and trust. And you can almost just look at them and have a conversation with them. And then you can have that bounce that feedback between each other. And there's there's some comfort level there. Right. And like, you said that that that really helped you kind of committee your show, and, you know, then that you started the kind of like, okay, you know, I can do this personality wise just as much as the ring. Absolutely. Like, it would start with just just you know, almost trying to make each other laugh in promos and stuff and then oh, yeah. There's more than just trying to be serious. Early. You can have a comedic side. You can be funny. You can be having fun. And this is well, it doesn't have to all be serious. You know, I was still at that point right thought wrestling supposed to be serious. You're supposed to be a serious wrestler at all times. And that definitely helped in that regard. And like you said like having that guy to have your back like there's enough pressure and stressing Zaidi in this occupation. As it is when you have someone that can share the burden ensure that workload like that makes things so much more comfortable to me well done tag team match. It's very hard for any other match on the show to to you know, to come close. And we've talked about it before on the pod with you guys. You know, saying that the undisputed probably gonna kick this thing off, and it's going to be really hard to follow. And I know that's everybody's mentality in the match and. Usually the case. It's it's you know, you guys kick it off and. Man that sets the tone for the entire show. But I gotta think everyone else sees it and goes, okay, we got we got to try and top it. And that's a great thing competitiveness in the locker room. It is it's it is a competitiveness. But it's also like everyone's supporting each other and each other on to, you know, bring it into to keep that temple. Like it also happens to be that we're kicking off the show. There's no really better position to be opening match on a takeover card because those the crowd are always just nuclear and first match is is kind of always been like my favorite spot like through my first couple of years and ringing Avante. I felt like I'd mastered the opening match like it was, you know, sixty minutes. Just simple basic teach the people to what the basic psychology of what they're going to see is like don't do anything to crazy. Just keep it. You know, swift and quick and good. And I I hate to say I love opening matches. Because of course, you know, the goal should be move up the car, but that isn't nice spot to be on. When you have that just such a great long to be when the crowd is awesome on takeover show mentality. My mentality was was I'm not unless on I sure you know, that that's how I was looked at it. And then I will because I'd like to set the pace. And like, I said set the set the bar for the rest of the rest of the show due out there and okay, follow that, you know, that, you know, and it's not necessarily being a dick thing. But it's a. Said competitiveness and having that competitive edge, reduce or whatever it is. It's it's it's kind of contagious when the locker room, and you want everybody else to go out there and step up and have great matches. Well. I like the fact that you just said can competitive juice you like that. I mean, it's kinda disturbing. But I. Yeah. Boxes. Lawyer right now. Yeah. So how long do you? You said you really wanted to get to Japan. Was it not until you and Bobby were together as read red dragon was that when you finally go over to Japan and got to experience it. Yeah. That was I remember we were I think we were booked in in the UK, and we're like an early flight the next morning been up. You know, it's one of those really flight. It was just stay up all night. So we can just sleep on the flight home and getting back to the hotel had like a missed message from Carl Anderson, and he was you know, a player in new Japan at the time. He said the office wants your info, we're like, oh sweet. This is what I've always wanted. We got to go. I think our our new Japan debuts like you one finals in two thousand fourteen and a big dome show. So it was just a surreal experience something that I've always wanted to do ever since I got into wrestling was wrestling Japan 'cause it's just such a fan of the style. And just a fan of Japanese culture and just how pro wrestling it's such highly regarded over there and wrestlers just looked at with such respect. And it was just yeah. It was a dream come true to get over there. So you. You you finally get over there. And and like you said that that became a goal, you know, earlier on your career. At what point like was there a point? I guess where you thought maybe maybe this is where I spend the rest of my career -solutely. I love going for a lot of my career WVU never really on my Adar. I wanted I love wrestling. And I would be doing it still regardless if I never made a diamond just because I just love to do it so much, but I really felt at peace and at home over in in new Japan like the fans really getting behind us. I had you know, some really important matches for my career for like my body of work. I guess I would say stuff that I can be proud of looking back, and you know, wrestled in some venues and some famous tournaments some some famous guys, and you know, was really proud of that. And I would've been happy to be lifer over there. One hundred percent. So even even though it wasn't necessarily the goal. There has to be that turning point where you realize that Deb e is very distinct possibility when does that kind of start that that realize ation start happening? I guess it would like, I guess, you know, anything that's possible. But you see guys that have gone the same route that we had gone that were making big waves and WWE like guys who were the ring of honor champions of the world. Like, they were you know, they were now the each hand. So it was like, well, maybe this is a possibility wouldn't be for quite some time. After that that we would get that call. But once that call Cain. It was like, wow, this is this is really gonna happen. Like it was. I don't know. It's hard to put into words how it felt. And how it still feels to know that I work for it's the company I've loved since I was a kid. So, you know, it was just it was a really cool thing to to finally happen for us and for me and just for my family as well to see how much I put into this. And how hard it was to get to this point. And so when I finally did get the call it was literally like the weekend of I finally won the ring of honor world title and William regal called me up and said that they wanted to hire me, you know. Oh, well, I'm the ring on a world champion. Now. There's something that you can do about that. Oh. Right, right. Hijacked. At the Tokyo dome and the shortest reigning ring of honor champion in history. But. And then be like that like the weekend dropping get a call saying, oh, there's I guess a bit of legal dispute between our companies or whatever it ended up being. But we have to go radio silent for six months. And now you're like not my ideal was up in the air. But it was like, yeah, you're going to have to wait six months. I was like, okay. So now, I was kind of like, oh, so now what do I do I finish up with new Japan finish over the ring of honor? Like, what am I gonna do for? These next two money was really like a lot of uncertainty. But it was it's so crazy to think that now just how that was such a blessing in disguise really was universe. Looking out for me because my mom had just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. So those those six months where you know, precious time that I got to spend at home for those final months and everything like that. So it really did it really did work out. And it gave me time for Mike my to heal and for me to get some mental clarity. And what this whole journey meant and to really prepare myself physically and mentally for this next step in my career. And of course, if I'd come in originally in that that January of twenty seventeen I wouldn't have been with Bobby. I wouldn't have been with Adam shuttered think of what Mike would have happened. If I just come in by myself as opposed to coming in forming this group, you understood at era like that's been the most fun and most. Citing the best thing that's happened in my career by far. So it's so crazy when you when you really break down think about you know, how the serendipitous things that do happen throughout your career. And how it all really does mean something, and it really is the best. The way you just said serendipitous so you are already a fan. But I mean, even bigger fan, I meant the John cusak movie. Which was a good movie. And it really does sound like honestly that that six months was the new you know, it was needed. Not only not only like you said for personal front and condemning relate in that regard after this year, and how important it is to be home for all of that. And then also going forward one. Once you get there, man, you're gonna hit the ground running, and I'm assuming that's how it's felt because you guys have been doing everything on everything. And with your style, you're bumping feeding hills. And that that can wear on you after a while. Is there any other heels, and w w? Well, there's Bronx. Right. Wouldn't we all? Was it gonna be our lot guys? So so all of all of that happens to you. And let's face it. That's that's the real stuff. That's the important things. How hard was it to? To to get down there and get back to work or was it. Good to get back to work to just kind of try and move forward. It was. Yeah. It was the best thing for me. This is what you know. My life has revolved around for the last fourteen years is is this job is the best medicine. Absolutely. And like my mom wouldn't pass until November of that year. So she did get to see me realize my dreams, she get to know that I had made it and I had signed on the dotted line. And I got to like our first takeover was that word games in November. And so she she knew there got two main event a W eat, quote, unquote, paper view, so that was just so huge from my family me getting to an exte- was the one good piece in news that happened for my family that entire year. Like, it was a lot of pain and hardship and everything like that. But. Yeah. Like, it was the best medicine and surrounded by my friends, and co-workers, and coaches and producers that I've been fans up since I was a kid, but I've so much respect for and admiration for like, this is I'm truly living the dream in every sense of the word. Well, the wrestling, you know, the locker room, I it becomes a type of second family as well. I mean, you're spending all of these times you're trusting each other's lives to each other. So. If you can't be with your your blood family, if there's any place that is going to have some kind of understanding, and and a good place to be would think it's there. Yeah. Absolutely. Every like, we're all in this together. We were on the road constantly. We're all the way from certain time away from our families. We're all beat up and. You know, missing your kids your dogs, or whatever you have at home. Like, it's it's a grind. And you know, we all have each other, and we all need to keep each other positive. And and you know, you hear so much about the the competitive aspect of it. You know, screw that guy. I want his spot and this that and the other. But it's I don't think it's really like that down here. I feel like everyone's supporting each other and everybody wants to best reach other. And I think you need to be happy for people when they succeed, right? Absolutely. Definitely changed in that respect. I think for the better. And like, you know, we talked about earlier like going out there and. And and like wanted to opening the show not going back to the minute. Like nobody's going to be able to follow that new. You're almost going back in in somebody to step up, and they wanna see them a better match, you know. So it's a fund that that refreshing in this business very much. Definitely. And also to to go. Okay. Wow. You you did pull it off damn you. Okay. Next time, I'm gonna make it even harder. And that's I think, you know. And what I got when I've spent time dented annexed is that kind of feel which I think is great. You know, it really feels like you're all in it together yet still competing against each other. But but pushing each other forward and not trying to hold anyone back, and you can really tell that from the types of matches you guys have and I don't want to harp on it. And I don't wanna keep talking about it. But just it's some really really great fun, creative stuff where you tell that you guys were out there to try and make your opponents, look great. Yeah. It's the name of this business. Nobody looks good. Without someone making them. Look good. And like you said there's four participants or there's two participants. But it can be a lost art sometimes. So it's very refreshing. When you see it, and I think that deserves mentioning that that I obviously big fan, and it's been really fun to watch the creative things that you guys have been doing but more than that too. Can also just tell you're having fun and Ernie such a huge difference. So let's talk about a little bit about having history with with these guys that you're now working with and doing it at this level and vice like how fun does that feel? Oh, we're having a blast. Like I'd said before about me and Bobby like this whole undefeated, everything like, there's a real genuine come rodri- between us because we we. Are all really close friends, and we we all came up through the roads together, and we're just having such a blast. Like, we're just trying to make each other laugh, and then, you know, goofing off in promos and Admiral bring it down guys like this is serious still too. Good like my saints. Sweet. That's a nice new. But it's just like, I don't know. This is really one of the coolest things I've gotten to do and to be part of a faction. And you know, we're we'll refer smaller guys. But like when you like as individuals anyone can beat us whatever like when there's four of us like good luck. Like there's four pit bulls that are coming at you. And I think hunter and Sean said like wiener dogs, but say. Say. Before a pit bull. Eagles. So I think it'd be able to go like a mean mean beagle. Fraud. Have quite the same effect. What's great? Would you guys? Do it's very similar to the brain posters or or the horsemen or it's when you get your heat, you get your heat. And I actually I have always liked the term like a pack of wolves. And that really feels like that's what you guys do. And the revival. Does it too often when we come out people will cheer these guys are cool area? But like more often than not we almost always are able to turn them. And then like within the natch getting them doing us and get them to cheer the baby faces like that's something. I'm really proud of that we are able to do that. And and to to turn a crowd, and you know, to be the cool cocky heels, but to also be chicken shit, you know, well, end it's tough to be the talented. He'll like it's a very educated audience. So they know they know guys are good, and and that can be difficult in a way. But. You guys have been able to tell such stories with your matches that that gets lost. And people just get wrapped up in the story. That's being told in who the hell is gonna win this thing. And and where's it going to go in what new stuff they're gonna do? And speaking of new, although it's not new because you know, you teamed before but with with Bobby coming back and transitioning from from Bobby to to to Roddy back to Bobby. I mean, how cool is it to be you've been the center pin of that whole thing tagged with literally every guy in the group for a decent run school Lynch pin? Brother, brother, totally to what you said just about these characters. I really kind of I always think about edging Christian. And how they were able to be entertaining and funny in the ring. Have great segments and promos, but once the bell rung, it was all business, and they were having bad ass matches. And and they were taking seriously like that's something I've really try and sort of pattern or so after so there really is a fine line between comedy and haw one hundred percents. Yeah. And you don't want to far down the commuter route and be tagged as a comedy guy like I still wanna be able to vicious and to be violent. But, you know, still have fun like something said when you came to class Christian that really resonated with me. I forget the exact context of it. But I think you were talking about there was a time when you might have been going through a bit of a lull, and you were like in you were like, you know, seen like doc stage of in yet. And you were just like in the background or whatever you're talking about. How you know what I'm gonna make the most out of this. And I'm going to just try and steal the scene as a background actor, and my always kind of think of that. When even if I got nothing on that show or in that Veneta promo if I can just sort of react. and and having facial expression, or or do something, you know, maybe someone will notice that. And you know, just make the most of every opportunity we're given. Because the alternative is you said there, and I don't know you look border twiddle your thumbs. And guess what audience is going to? And there's going to be even if it's just a small segment somebody's gonna notice and go I'm always going to keep my high on that guy or that because they're going to try something different. And I've heard that story from j a lot he repeats a lot to me. I must have been really excited. The frying pan for real. Was always Marquette rolled up the frying pan. Yeah. And then when we rolled the frying pan week, he lifted up a car, and he was doing a bunch of feats of strength, and I was very very excited about it. Guys that were hot at you though about going like go into hard backgrounds. Well, I'm gonna stand here. I'm gonna the best guy standing here. Right. So I love that. That's awesome. Where those guys now. Yeah. Right. I could name. I could name Mark Henry's in the hall of fame, isn't he? Yeah. But he was the what do at this stuff. Guys watch. So. I mean where. In terms of teaming with Bobby now. I mean, you guys have been a team since what you said two thousand twelve right? I believe so. Yes. So he he's coming back blown out knee. I mean, that's it's no matter what no matter how comfortable you feel. There's always that. Those those first few for me. It's always been a few months back. I really don't feel like I'm back in the groove until about three months of kind of like knocking the rust out. But again doing it in a team is so is so nice. Because I mean, he knows that you're there, and and that's got to feel good for you to to know that you can can be there to help him come back from which is pretty substantial injury. Absolutely. And I know for Bobby like he was a little apprehensive about coming back because he saw the way that Adam Roddy, and I were joined the other team. And I know he felt maybe a little left out. But it hasn't been like that at all. They just hop and right back on the bicycle and bobby's just been killing it since he came back. And that's a good thing about the four team. Like, we we all contribute to to everything that we do whether it's a singles or tag any combination of the four of us if it's in Roddy or me and Bobby year, Bobby and Roddy or me and Adam adamant bay like any any combo of the four of us. I think can go out there and smash it, and we all are so supportive of each other, and you know, contributing ideas, and hey, you can do this. And you're not even in our match. But he's given us like some good stuff. Like, that's it's really cool. The all want each other to succeed and to do really well. It's very reminiscent of of the horsemen. Honestly with you know with Barry Windham minute. You know? All four guys were just just and you could put any combination of the kaput aren't and buried together. You could put you know, Tully Rick together at you just knew that, you know, if you were to team those two guys, they would take him champions. And they would be able to have a good match with anybody on the show. And I think that's a very similar vibe that you guys have. And I can't think of any other four person groups that have necessarily come close to that. Because there's always been one or two that are kind of. I don't know just don't fit the mold. I guess, but you guys all really fit the mold of what you're doing. Why do you think that is? Is it the camaraderie is at you know, the fact that you came up together. I think so. And I think maybe it's because we all just we all really do love this. And we all like the same types of wrestling team. Same types of guys and into like, we've heard that horsemen comparison if you times, I would never actually have the balls to say that about ourselves personally. We hold for similar to the Horsman is like such a frigging, huge confident blows my mind every time I hear it. And you know, that's that's that's legendary status right there. So if we can come close to anything similar to that. I think think we'll do. All right. So is that. You. I mean, I would think you guys wanna all trying get to either rar smackdown as unit. I think that that's the game plan. You guys wanna go with? Oh, absolutely. I know we all don't want. This thing to end anytime soon. Like, I know it's it's wrestling. Eventually someone's gotta go through the barber shop window, right? But. I think we want to ride this thing through as long as possibly can. And we're pretty sure that like creative has similar plans for us as far as concerned. I know there's no plans to the split us up anytime soon or anything like that. So all the stars, align, you know, it would be wonderful to eventually go to the main roster as a as a four-man Unix. I think it would be something very unique and very special and something that's not really like a four man group. It hasn't been done in a good while up there. So I think that could be really cool, and I'm just I keep my fingers crossed that. We do eventually get that opportunity. In the meantime, you and you and Bobby are back together. I won't say red dragon. Even though I want to. I'm really excited. All right. It is. But you know, I was I was really. So pleasantly surprised with the chemistry that that you an Roddy had 'cause I knew you had it with Bobby, obviously. But then to see how kind of seamlessly you guys transitioned. I'm really looking forward to to seeing you guys get back and show exactly what you can do as a team. And and again, you're the recurring theme there, buddy. Fishy that man, I'm having a blast. And as long as I get the tech with you know, any combination of these guys life is pretty sweet. And I got a pretty good gig. Hey, I don't don't sleep on your single stuff, man. Because because like I said you really have a special. Something in there. And like I said, I can't I can't put my finger on it. And that's a good thing. I I've never seen someone move like you in there. And do the things you do. So keep doing what you're doing man. It's it's really fun to watch. Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate that. And you don't get those. We've kept your for while here. We'll let you go and get those those Levi five ones and tie them up sharpshooter. Talking with you guys is awesome. And I've been a lifelong fan you guys, you know, moments like, these where you get to talk to people that you look up to respect, you know, make life on this planet worth living. So thanks for having me on. Nice. Peers, isn't it? Kidding? Keep it up. Good. It was the Riley little bit better. Do you like him? Yeah. Good. Good. Good Canadian kid, and I know house. They would they they would. But, but I I I got a question for you could listening to motivating fitness programs getting fit good listening inspiring to start something new who's never been a better time to start listening on audible with audible, you get access to an beatable selection of audiobooks, including bestsellers motivation mysteries thrillers. Memoirs and born audible has the largest selection of audio books on the planet, and now with audible originals, the selection has gotten more custom with content made for members. I just finished listening to us against you by Frederick Bachmann. I'm now listening to the squared circle by David shoemaker. For those of you want to listen to a wrestling book. It's all their audible members also get access to exclusive audio fitness programs. Start the new year off on the right foot? Listen on any device to me, that's brother anytime anywhere at home at the gym on your commute. Just on the go. You'll enjoy easy audiobook exchanges rollover credits in an audio book library keep forever. Even if you cancel audible, the most inspiring minds the most compelling stories the best place to listen get started with a thirty day trial. When you go to audible dot com slash awesomeness, or text awesomeness to five hundred five hundred that's five zero zero five zero zero. Hey, listen for a change. And I don't wanna be gushing about it. But I really really really do if you couldn't tell by that interview enjoy his work and how it's just different man. I don't know how to put my finger on it. And that's a good thing. I really really think that is a guy who has has. Found his own thing his own style his own niche, and I can really to or not he has you know, it's his thing. So it it's distinctly him. And I don't think like if you were to, you know, just put green bastard body suits on everybody, you would still know him because of the way he moves, and and that can be a difficult thing in this industry when it's tough to to have originality. So it was good to have them on good to a big rain a little bit. Yeah. Big fan of his work. And after talking to a bigger fan of him as person good, dude. Glad for his success. And I'm sure he has plenty more to go. So looking forward to to to watch it all unfold, brother, brother. Yeah. You know, there's certain guys that you just watch and those four. You know fall into this category. Where you just watch and go man, how how fun would it all them except Bobby fish? Let's be honest. See the fish man in me. We're we're we're pretty tight. You know, I I got I gotta tell you. I think I think the fish flounder, brother. You're gonna make the fish flounder will maybe maybe smack into it. Would he he'll dress again some point? Last week. I was listening to this shitty. Pod. Graham, twit post, or whatever it's called in once my heirs realized how said they'd be while I listen to those two jobbers ENC. Something I never want to hear again. That's. I heard my old nemesis balls MAC talk disparagingly about my rider die my compadres, the into my huge hang the man, I go back to back with Devoto. That's right, smack verbally besmirched jerk. Jackson, you'll know him as Bobby fish. But we go back to the days when curly mustache wasn't ironic. When only the magnum P is in ta the village people in porn stars rock. Those facial poops. Let's make no mistake about it. No, one talks Cuanto about the Merman. You see our attornal bond was formed at a late night. Richard Simmons sushi taco party right after we completed us when the old VHS with Jane Fonda Joan Jett, Molly, ringwald, Sigourney Weaver, Kelsey grammer. And Pat Benetton the fish man was wearing polkadot unitards. So that made him cool with me, then we did blow with Kenny G out of his saxophone from there. We went moon. Light surfing with Danny devito and reapproach even you haven't lived until you've seen to beat to apply sex wax to along board at midnight. But I digress. Smack edge. You have no idea the hell you unleashed. I'm going to hold you in my son's at flip until the Red Sox and the cubs win the World Series. You understand me that's going to be a long time. No, one messes with my fish. I just. I did not see that coming. Manages guy that he must quick. He moves quick. But he doesn't like he he's like walking subtly, but somehow it's fast like enough. It's a bit of a stiff legged strut. I'm not gonna lie, but he does it at a very quick pace. And apparently, very tight with Bobby fish. Jerk jackson. Yeah. They they're obviously apparently. Good friends with Kenny G. I yeah. I missed that part. I don't I don't, but I was kind of reeling over there. And this you know, coppertone was sent my nostrils pretty hard for the smack is gonna have retort for for one flip sunset. I don't know flip his presence. I freeze. I don't know. What to do? I I'm not gonna lie. I do too. When he comes in room, you really feel it. And basically, I I would just leave Bobby fish alone. If I were you. I it's not me. I didn't do anything about fish. Yeah. Yeah. But it's confusing. It's very confusing. I think. Well, thirty on next week. Well, we know that we know the man's wasn't it. So now he knows that sunsets. Got his back Mark like the rest of these people. Get out here. Later. I'm Newt Gingrich. And I have a new free original podcast called neutral. It's all about stories conversation and context every Sunday, we break down a different topic from history to national security. This is the biggest congressional scandal. Going back fifty years. You can listen to new twirled for free at Newsworld dot com. When apple podcast, Google podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Listen and subscribe to new twirled from the Westwood One podcast network.

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Tony Schiavone

E&C's Pod of Awesomeness

1:32:09 hr | 2 years ago

Tony Schiavone

"You are entering ENC's all of this. So Jay we actually saw each other this week. Well, it seems strange that we actually saw each other. And now we're doing this feels like a little bit overkill. It feels like maybe this is too much each other before we get to the fun that we had in Lexington brother brother, brother, tell you to remember to subscribe to us on apple podcast Google podcast on Android app. Spotify. Tune Institure or every listen your podcast and don't forget to leave us a. Slash view. Well, here's the thing. Why didn't we do when we were together and get it over with? And then we wouldn't well that was our self. So this I mentioned that. But apparently, you were not hip to it. Cats not that it wasn't hip to it. I think that the the old salacious one there. I think he likes weekends off. He doesn't like to work. He doesn't like to work seven days a week like us who. Well. Yeah. He doesn't like we were grinding at. At. That didn't come on. We were working lexin is not work mean, we're at a comics, and it was fun and. Got see a lot of folks and got tell law nice stories here law. Nice stories. So that was that was always good possibly my favorite part of the entire weekend. Odors is the Birdman. And I we we go walk in the streets electing ten you know, 'cause hungry and so we're walking around with finally find this place. We sit down getting prepared. We're looking at menus pretty excited. Hey, maybe a little glass of whisky who knows? A teaming glass of ice water, right? Is sitting there tantalizingly and we've been talking days or both thirsty. Jay, grabs the wine list. Whatever it was I said. I said the wine list, and you pass it in hit the water and dumped it all over my crotch. No, no, don't even try and blame me. I was nowhere near it. I did not touch it you you grabbed it off the table pulled it back on and directly into your water bottle and spilled ice cold water. All over your crutch. And differing stories of how actually went down, but I didn't touch my surprise. It didn't get I didn't get a I'm like, I'm like water off ducks back. I mean, just it didn't really affect me. Yeah. No. So well. Maala wake-up anyway. Yeah. Yes. And you got a good laugh. I did. I did. We got to say the favorite part. I thought you were gonna say the favorite party of the weekend was the Q and A session that we did. Well, that was fun too. But honestly, you pouring water all over your crotch was much more for me. But the unit was a lot of fun. I think that was probably more enjoyable for the folks who watched it then than it was for you and me because again. Too much time together. Yeah. So they get fun of each other. So that was good. Yeah. Stepmom waldorf. Yeah. Right. The it was good. It was fun. Gutsy gold dust got CO Graham. Yeah. For those that don't know who Graham is that Kane, aka Glenn Jacobs, the mayor of knocks his deputy mayor, by the way, you your deputy mayor. I liked it myself as deputy mayor. Oh, did you do that breakfast when we're having breakfast with them because he was trying to avoid conversation with you. I don't know if you notice that's not how I remember it. I think I brought some good ideas for Knox county to the table that really make vibrant. Area. So you're saying, it's not vibrant. That's what I'm saying. As a matter of fact, I drove through it. And was there yesterday with with a few? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I view view in everybody in the ring. Having a good old time. Good old time. Yeah. With you know at. Jacobs Pritchard wrestling kademi, Jen, PWA, brother, brother. Got seal. Doctor Tom Prichard who was great to see him and always good to see him. And you know, the all the people that Tom Prichard has his fingerprints are on their their brain. You know, he he was part of the funk Indo with Dory funk, and he was the in hands on guy, you know, and. Tom helped the lot of people helped train the rock. I mean, if that's not, you know, pretty lofty resume right there. But it was good see him again. But to help train meet let's not forget about me. Again, stands out in a resume. So. Good. See him. Good see school that he's opened up with Glenn. And getting there was some there their students and try and help warm Beth up and get get those those gears looped up and ready for razzle mania efficient. Yeah. Doa Tom a great, dude. And the I mean like you said he has a fingerprints on a lot of people's careers. And we were we were two of those. I mean, he's very much instrumental getting to where we where we wanted to go. And so think about all the people that came through that funk in Joe whether they've been working for years by that point or not they still you know were. Not as directly also, you know, a lot of advice given by Tom and a lot of hands on. I don't know just getting in there with someone and and feeling how they move and going, oh, this is how it can be. And whether it's hardy boys is Kurt angle who else came through there. The test. A train. We'll pick a name, right. Yeah. Lot of folks. And then let alone what he did down to Memphis like, I said with rock, and and folks like that. So it was good see'ums. Great Siham is good to see natty. I'm Beth get in there and roll around a little bit in the revival. Our buddies the revival dash into all star game. And. Rain Mark don't start sparking any rumors now. Listen ring, what's going to happen? Now. You coming back. That's a new voice. I don't know where that would give. No, you know. I I hadn't been in a wrestling ring, you know, besides just, you know, stepping in for smackdown promo or something like that a long time. So got a little bit. It was fun. It's fun to move around. And we brought the girls and Dawson brought his daughter so they all played. And then by the end of the day, we we let them get in for a little bit and kind of run around and feel what it was like. And it was pretty fun to see that. So still like, yeah. Whatever. Give me a pencil and paper draw. Something exactly I just want to draw something about this whole thing. But as good time good time. So we did that and. Yeah. Yeah. And so that that was it was good. I think there's should be some fun stuff coming up in that matchup mania. Also this. Also this week. It was announced, and I'm not going to say that we were the first say it, but we were probably somewhere amongst the I say, I'm gonna go ahead. Can be you're gonna say it. You're gonna say, okay. Take a full leave it to you to take full. Main event wrestlemainia Charlotte. Becky, Rhonda, which take man. I think I've been rental whist with Charlotte in the smackdown title. I mean, you know, smack women's championship. I can't understand that. But, but I mean beg said in you know, when you have, you know, Becky kind of fighting the system so to speak, and now she's fighting, you know, Ron arousing undefeated champion and then in Charlotte handpicked contender who's now a champion. You know, just kind of maybe seem even bigger somehow. That's what I'm thinking. But I think very deserving the this was the year you had to do it. You had to run, you know, you just had to and it's the hottest thing in the company. So you put the hottest thing in the company on last, or at least you should. Yeah. And I think you've seen the times that you haven't done that. And and you've seen what happens, you know. I mean, let's face. It was think about wrestlemainia eighteen in Toronto. I mean, rock and HOGAN gotta go on last. Right. Did you just do and they didn't? And you saw what happened, you know? And that's no knock on on Chris and hunter who were in the main event, but. Let's face it. They were there to see rocket. Can you imagine they had to follow the shampoo match? Oh, are you kidding me? I'm surprised rocker HOGAN were able to follow it. Not that bad. But I mean, come on when you're talking about a shampoo endorsement deal all about your off. I know a Japanese shampoo endorsement, by the way, right? Can can you hear my dogs lapping up all of this water behind me, by the way? No, okay. Good. I feel like we're on a delay. Are we? Yeah. 'cause I said that in the three seconds later you answered me. Oh, well, it sounds doesn't sound like it to me. But. Yeah. I was just wondering if I could throw you off with this hand come this slap your ass. Okay. So there was no delay. You just wanted to slap my ass Kofi Kingston now. I don't care about you wanting to slap fucking all right Kofi Kingston. Yeah. He's getting his match new day goes on let us go. Nowhere. Four fitting to table on Rohan. That's it. He's going. He's going to the main event and bam. Bam. Bam. Bam. I'm hit my pen on it. They van Damme because people are looking reverse rocket strapped. And we didn't we knew. No. I think it was. It was I mean, obviously nice to get a biggie. An exhibitor kind into that spotlight as well. Yeah. 'cause I've kinda banded together. This whole thing, and and you know. Kind of to Gav good showing for themselves to a nice long match with. And they were all very very well done. Very entertaining. I was thinking about it after two like how how would it have added to that? If like. If Vincent gone out there and said, you know, if you're gonna quit, go ahead and quit. I can't stop you or something like that. You know, it's not like you're because he's been saying the base, basically, it'd plus B plus player, right? He's not a top guy. So like what if they face is just started walking out like well quit, and I'll quit, and I got all the baby faces we're gonna quit and kind of force his hand. I don't know. There have been something there with that. You think? Possibly it might have made for a better promo segment than that. I don't know they're back and forth between dead your bride Vits. Finally, you could tell his shot up. I was like, okay, that's real vent. So to NATs. Time. Well, we don't get sure the babies are showing whatever we want all the baby faces quit. I don't know. I thought that's your idea. Okay. Sure. Threatened to quit, you know. But then we don't. While they're kind of forced his hand. And maybe he gives them then he says, okay? Well, if these the rest of the new day wins this colonies in. I don't know. Yeah. Sam sure during some the refund. Already. Maybe I don't know if Donald. Screw you. Okay. Okay. Scripts. You know, actually, I because we recorded last week before the match aired. I watched a fatal five-way and exte- to see who would face Gargano at annex t takeover and two or three falls. Five-way? I did not see it. It's good. Good. 'cause man those are tough matches. You got five. It's a lot too. It. It's easy to keep the action going, obviously. But it can be tough to have it not become a cluster and staggered and make everything mean things without it being thrown away. It was it was really really well done match five super towns at people, and what was really cool about. It is all five of them are completely different. I mean, it was it was black velveteen. It was coal ricochet and riddle and coming out of that man like riddle is really finding his groove. And in this match super super impressive. Some great counters into submission to the mission. Really really, really like fun, intricate reversals. Really good stuff really really good stuff which sets up job. John Wakeham in Dingle. Go back, and I'll definitely have to go back and watch it. Check it out. Yeah. I mean like you said those matches can be hard to do right? Especially even a triple threat or a fatal four way and a fan of five white, man. Because not only do you know what you're doing to know what everybody else is doing right. Yeah. So. You know, there's gonna be some down time. And right. You know, things like that. And they can feel awkward and everything. But there's it was really well done. It's really it's a fun watch. And that's that's up. Adam Cole who won the match sorry to play spoiler. But it's week and a half old to deal with it and joining Gargano Johnny kick him into ding, ding two or three takeover. That's gonna be good. And be good. And what else I am really really looking forward to is the war raiders against this year's dusty Cup winners. Ricocheting Ostra black. That's gonna be good. Matt. Yeah. It's also, you know, kind of going off of what we're seeing ricochet analysis. Black do. On Ron smackdown. Right. So it's it's cool that they kind of kept them together furthest tournament. And you know, kind of goes hand in hand with that and gives them more legitimacy to them as a team as well. Yes. Yes. Yes. It was good tournament to forgotten sons had a really good showing and kind of put their stamp. Which is good moving forward for the take him division down there and everything. And something else was going to mention, but it just flew into my head like a bird. I don't give shit. Well that. Okay. Well, that's nice. Yeah. So we had natty house, which is always nice. She always brings cat ears for the girls as you would expect and NAT. He's just such a good energy. You know, she's. Is just a hearty and fun to have around and goof off, and you know. Yeah. Yeah. Just just a lot of fun to have your here and the girls just, you know lover. So it's always nice from she. She. Great. And speaking of people with get energy. Tommy dreamer tummy. God I was going to text him to see he wanted to do tales from the Indies this week since we haven't heard from forever as far as well. Yeah. And then got this little this little nugget. On on social media of somebody calling it his podcast. Yeah. Him off which was great. Salaciously? We do you have any audio of that? We do. Let's check it out. A Tommy Roberts pace in Arizona. What was your start up like when you were starting up house heart Dom? I shouldn't answer this question based on the grounds of stupidity. Stupid edge and Christian more Christian that stupid Tomei hate it. Anyway, you see my stoic. Look when I'm hearing that burns me inside. Nobody should walk up or address a person like that. So that happened the house of his house of hardcore podcast. So now people are are Shanghai his his pod. But what here's what I wanna know. Dudes name was Robert Smith was that the lead singer of the cure. I don't know. We don't think he sounds like that. It's broadly. I'm in love. Pictured though, that's Robert Smith remit cure with that voice. Gummy sunday. He's comes too late. But Friday never hesitate. Go. All right. I don't care if Mondays black Tuesday and Wednesday hard to take Thursday never looking back. Kids friday. I'm in love set today. We're. Yes. That was on Tommy's house of hardcore podcast. And I would encourage anybody ever calls into its podcast to start off with that. Because it pisses me off or so he says, he's a martyr people. He loves it. Trust me. Secretly. Yes. He does. I it's it's more attention for right? And that's that's what he has for. Let's face it. That's way, still wrestling in sixty two and eight broken backs or you know, whatever it is. Yeah. So yeah. And you know, we got we got a pretty pretty cool guest this week. Yeah. This is this is interesting. We got Tony. She of auntie and rent. I mean, think of the history that his voice has been involved in, you know, when I think Iraq, too, you know, there's the voice of n w a to me is is Tony show Vanni. I it's right. You know him and Bob coddle, and that I know it was just a different atmosphere than than Jesse guerrilla or, you know, Bobby and and guerrilla. Toys to write like he has. He has a distinct voice like Jim Ross like gorilla monsoon that. It's, you know, something that you grew up on and you in something that resonates with you when you hear it it kind of takes you back. Right. So, but he's I'm sure he's gonna some great stories. He obviously has a has a great podcast. As well. So we'll talk to him a little bit about that and could listening make you a better parent better leader, even better person could listening inspire you to start something new. There's never been a better time to start listening on audible with audible, you get access to an unbeatable selection of audiobooks couldn't bestsellers motivation mysteries thrillers. Memoirs in poor brother brother, audible has the largest selection of audiobooks on the planet. That's a big place. And now with audible originals selection has gotten even more custom with content for members. I'm leading the Jack Reacher books all on there. I I'm going through Frederick Bachmann spokes all on there. If you're looking for it. It's going to be on their audible members can choose three titles every month. One on your book into audible originals. You can't hear anywhere else. Audible members also get access to exclusive audio fitness programs started here on right foot, and let's face Birdman. I saw your dad Bob Mosley, you could use it. Listen on any device anytime anywhere at home at the gym on your computer or just on the go. You also joy other than my dad bought easy audiobook exchanges rollover credits. Audio book library for you to keep forever. Even if you cancel audible, the most inspiring minds the most compelling stories the best place to listen get started with a thirty day trial. When you go to audible dot com slash awesomeness, or text awesomeness to five hundred five hundred that's five zero zero five zero zero and listen for a change. Tony. Flers birthday party, and you were to weren't you? Yeah. I did. And I kept saying I gotta go over and say Hello to him. But every Email the world kept pulling at me. And I couldn't get over there. I I did. I was doing the same thing. So I knew you were there. Yeah. I did the same thing afterward. I said to Beth I was like, I think Tony shivani was there, and yeah, pretty sure that was him. But because we have we ever officially met. We haven't. No, I didn't think. So. So I've never met either. One of you guys guys were you guys became famous when I was out of wrestling. Here's the thing is that that you guys both didn't know that I was actually at flares birthday party. And I would at both of you. So. You know, what that was jogo mess? Okay. Got everybody knows Joe Gomez. No twenty two it was really excited to have you on the podcast as as was Adam. And just thinking man of so many people that I grew up on. And you're you're one guy that never have met in person. And so this is exciting for for both of us to talk to you. And we were saying before you came on that, you know, like, a Jim Ross gorilla monsoon like you had that distinct voice that was, you know, you're the voice of NWF. You're the voice of WCW and that resonates with guys like us. The group is fans that that when you hear that when we hear your voice, it takes us back to that time of being a fan, and that that's there's so many memorable moments at moments that you called in your career and for us. It's huge to have you on. Well, you know, I appreciate you guys saying that I really do. I I hear that a lot from fans, and I really didn't to be honest with you. I didn't when I left the business in two thousand one and and decided I was going to try to recreate myself. I I really left thinking that, you know, I would just know the guy in the business who tried to do something to try to turn, you know, try to make name south, and it didn't work out and I'll go on about my business. But now as we move into, you know, twenty eight teen twenty nineteen and we're doing this podcast. I'm going out and doing appearances. Now, I I realized that what we were doing back then with nitro WCW did have impact on a lot of people impact on a lot of fans impact on guys wanted to get into business. So I'm always I'm always humbled to hear something like that. And even further back than that. You know, I I heard you with NWEA, and we were talking about it again before you came on and just the different feel that NWEA had from WWF, and because WWF had had guerrillan Bobby ORR, Jesse in Bobby or you know, any combination of those, and you Imbaba coddle just had a I it was just a different dynamic. And as was the wrestling they it felt grittier. And it felt I don't know the camera angles everything just felt so different. I mean, did you ever think at that time that you would be influencing an entire generation of folks? Not only fans, but people like you said that have gotten into the industry. No, I never did. You know, I was. I was I was doing baseball for Jim Crockett promotions. They had a baseball team. And I was a big wrestling fan growing up and I'm talking about the seventies now. And so I was a big wrestling fan growing up, and I got out of college. I got a baseball job wanted to be a major league baseball announcer. And then my second baseball job was with the Charlotte. Baseball team. And I got a job with Charlotte baseball team owned by the Crockett's, and I kept telling the Crockett family. Listen, I do wrestling. I can do this please give me a chance. They gave me a chance in that kind of started my career. But when we were doing it back, then we weren't as polish really we weren't as polish as the Vince McMahon products in the eighties and the WWF and that Hokka mania was going on. And we were more like a mom and pops organization, I think we tried a little bit more realism. I think our fan base is a little bit older than what was you know, hookah mania and the WWF back then so yeah, it was by design a little bit grittier. But I didn't think you know, Vince hired me in nineteen eighty nine. I never thought I would go to work for him. And then when I came back, I never thought that we would have the impact on people that we had. But you know, the impact really kinda started big time on the nationwide level with the Monday night wars. You said there I found kind of interesting when you said that you were telling the Crockett's that you could do wrestling when they finally gave you the opportunity to do that. Was it kind of seamless transition or was it like, oh, this this isn't what is expecting. It's a lot harder. No, I think it was a seamless transition because they brought me in because they thought I was a pretty good announcer. And they brought me in and. Just told me to just be the announcer. I wasn't baseball in call it like a real event. And the first thing, by the way, they did with me was take me to Rick flares house and do an interview with Rick flair about his first, arcade. You know, his Harley race matching eighty three and I had seen. Rick flair, you know, all through college and everything and was a big Rick flair, Mark. And that was a big moment for me just being able to meet him and talk to him. And then I went to Starr Cade. And that's where I met dusty. And I was a big dusty fan as well. Although he didn't work for the Crockett's full-time. He would come in as a special attraction. So I was like man I've died and gone heaven type thing and Harley race dick Slater. Bob Orton, Ricky steamboat just who McDaniel Greg Valentine, those guys that I knew from growing up. So I was just I can't really put words on how excited I was to. Be part of that. And when they brought me in and told me, you know, what what you see here. And what happens here stays here. I really took that to heart. I felt you know, now, they're welcoming into the inside K fate was alive back then and I felt a part of the business, and I was a really really approached it seriously because I was so honored to be a part of. Well, it speaks to your training then because having done a little announcing. And and having seen 'em heard how difficult a job it is the, you know, we we've talked about it on this the pod repeatedly over the years. Just how hard a job it is. So for you to to seamlessly kind of move into this eight it speaks to how much of a fan, you were which is an obvious advantage. But it's still whether your fan or not it to me, it's a difficult job. And and I guess that's that's the key. The really good ones. Make it sound easy. And you always did which is just a huge compliment real thanks for saying that it really means a lot it when when when the guys who've been in the business say that it means a lot to me, it it it does it. It was I think it would to be honest with you guys. I think it was easier back than than it. Probably is today. Because and I'm speaking only from what I've heard about the WWE that Vince is producing them in their ear all the time. And I didn't have that. And the later years of nitro we had producers are years, but it wasn't all the time. And apparently from what I've heard he's, you know, he really hammers the announcers and produces them heavily. I'm not so sure I could do it today. If that was happening my air back, then it's just this is what we got this what we want you to do. And you know, I after the show was over they would talk to him, and they never talked him during the show. You just did your thing. And so it may have been a little bit easier back then than it was today than it is today. I'm not so sure because I am not going. You know, I'm not in the WWE not going doing what they're doing. But I remember hearing you guys may have heard the story that Mick Foley was doing some announcing and he had his head set on. And he thought he invents good buddies. And after. About one show where was in his ears. He wasn't sure how with a buddy he was with bits after that goes can from what I understand it pretty high strung. But it was you know, I I wasn't announcer. I and then became a wrestling announcer. But my love for wrestling. I think made it an easy transition guy used to back when I was in college. I used to stand in front of a mirror. This is no lie. Stand in front of a mirror. Pretend I was holding the microphone and doing interviews really and doing the promos mid Atlantic championship wrestling this coming to the look Civic Center, the nature boy, RIC flair and Mcgann you'll of Indian strap match here's Rick flair. They used to do that all the time with my friends, and we cut up and have a good time with it. So now and that was in the seventies. Now flash forward in nineteen eighty three here, I am doing stark aid. And they bring me back in they studios. Start doing those local promos, two and a half minute promos ones with the heels one with the baby faces which was a life. Of the business back then. And that was that would say that was exciting for me is incredible. It's it's so funny. I would do the same thing. But I would be cutting the promo toward the opponent's. Like, I I would sit there and go, okay. What kind of promo could I kind of? We're gonna face man. It's very cool to hear that that you were doing that in front of the mirror to because I and I still tell people within the industry the best way to to practice cutting promos is by looking in the mirror. So you can see what you're doing. And if you have a strange tick that that might turn off a lot of yours and don't do that. Right. Yeah. You're right. Got a look right into the camera. I something some guys were good at that. You'll if you you can go back and look at the old promos. Some guys always looked into the monitor lex Luger was famous for looking at himself in the monitoring. And he's talking and I remember thinking looking cameras dumb ass. You're talking talking to the people don't look at all the muscles. You have but looking straight into mayor and looking right into camera work, very very, very important. And you know, at all those years that I did that was exception of the first time I met RIC flair and went to east house, which was the first thing I mentioned earlier that I did I never was nervous. Any of this stuff? People ask me said, aren't you doesn't get you nervous? When you know that millions of people are looking at you on the other side of the cavern. I said no because it's not millions of people. It's just a camera looking at me. And I think I've always more comfortable in front of a camera. Then I was on a podium in front of a lot of people. That were looking at me interesting. Yeah. Because I was I was gonna ask what do you think? It was that you did. Because I going to the ring and Jane I've had this conversation. I never had nerves. I I think it was just because I felt confident I I don't know where I was. But I never felt those butterflies either. And I I've I've heard some people say, well, then that means you don't love it. And I don't think that's true. It just you know, I think everybody's wired differently. But it's very rare that a hear someone actually say that. Never never was nervous. Even the first time. We, you know, we we did our show on TBS, which was April of I don't know they Zach date. But it was it was after you know, Vince had bought the time from from Turner. And then turn around to Jim Crockett and made it crock at night the first show on TBS, April of eighty five. I wasn't even in. I remember going down there. Thank you. Now. This is just like doing anything else. I was excited. But I wasn't nervous. I never had butterflies. And and and I and I agree. It's not because you don't care. It's just because some people are just wired differently. They really are. Yeah. Some people, you know, some people get get really pumped up and really excited now when I go going out and doing live shows with Conrad and Eric Bischoff now, and I do get a little bit of butterflies that because like we were in Chicago at sea too, easy to comic con recently. And we did a show in front of three hundred people and it's a little bit different. They're looking at you. They're laughing the reacting to you. So it's a little bit different. So it was a little bit. I guess I have butterflies with doing that. But the TV in front of the camera never never. And it's an interesting shift, right? Because with that way when you're doing your shows, there's that instant gratification. There's that instant. You know, whether something landed whether it didn't if it didn't there's that. Oh that I was expecting a laugh from that or react right from that. And you're essentially now now you're in the realm of the wrestler because I in the ring you knew right away. Okay. That worked that didn't. And I think there's a certain freedom. Maybe that comes with an announcing because you're just you're doing your thing. And and people are listening to you. But there you're you're the conduit. I guess. Yeah. Like the job of of what you were doing is getting everybody else over there. Storyline right match. And now when you're out there doing those sorts of things you're kind of out there to get yourself over right? Exactly two completely different than a great way to put it. I, you know, I people who have listened to our podcast and see our live shows. No that I was a completely different guy than I was back in the wrestling days. And I'm I'm really myself now back, then I I I saw myself as a straight man character that was my job to put guys over. And I try not to to let my personality shows because I always thought if you haven't up too much, you probably taken away from the guys, and that's not your job. And I never wanted to take away from the guys even go back guys. When when I started doing interviews dusty used to always say, you know, hold the microphone and then step out of the. Out of the picture and always try to do that always tried to step out of the picture because the picture was always flare or the picture is always totally. The picture was always magnet was whole Cogan. It wasn't me and try to step out. Now, it is about me. And I try to be a Reverend try to be funny. I try to be different in. I think a lot of people are surprised at the way. I really am. But listen, I never was always this way. I I never started Cussing until I met my wife and she got me to cause. I see how they. He married this broad I live with I would probably be a mild, mild mannered guy. Well, going forward, Tony. If you need any tips on how to put yourself over properly. Just let me know I'll give you some tips. I don't mind putting myself over at all as everybody. I've been very thirty years. So I pretty much the hang of this. I think. So you talked earlier just about how it sounds nowadays that that everything is very micromanaged. And and I think that goes toward the wrestlers promos as well. And I think you said the freedom that you all had I think the wrestlers also had that freedom. And I don't know if you get a dusty roads now unless you have the freedom for him to become dusty Rhodes, I mean. You were standing there you're holding the microphone for some of his most iconic promos. What right. What does that feel like like, what does the energy in the room feel like, and and how much is he just riffing in feeling it, and I just wanna pick your brain. And see what that was like. Well, you knew when you were in the midst of a good one. And you know, I I held a Mike Foale person, bad interviews too. But we got out flair got out there. And even when an aren't out there. You knew you're in the midst of something good, and they would just they would react to the fans that were there if you know, if we studio audience, or whatever they were kinda react more to the fans in the studio this because it was like a hundred people, and we go out and do worldwide or middle Antic championship wrestling there had a bigger audience couldn't always hear him, but they would react to that. And listed it. None of that was ever lost on me that I'm the midst of guys you hell they were doing. And just like you said Rick flair being Rick flair dusty industy Ricky's to come out. And the only thing Rick new was whose opponent was. And like, he, you know, he would also mention I'm talking about the TBS stuff, and he would come out, and he would do those. And he would just be Rick flared. There was no. Oh, time limit dusty was in the back in the in the in the control room, and he would listen to it. And he would wrap it up when he thinks flair had gone enough. So there was and there was no script at all. You can see now as as good as some guys are you can tell now when they kind of blown it. And they've kind of stumbled over what they're supposed to say. And it it just doesn't work and to me that to me, and listen, I'm not criticizing Vince McMahon. Good you guys know better than I do what he's minted the business and what he has done. But I think if you if you script everything then you take away from the talent. Their ability to cut a promo and to bring you in and to get you excited about the match. Really think that's a and I'm not so I don't know that the lost art or not. But I think what it used to be. Yeah. I think the system Meads to needs a reboot again by rebooting. I'm saying taking it back to what it used to be, you know, and beat because my gosh, you you go back and you want and obviously dusty. He's a completely different shooting star then writing essentially everyone else, Rick, and these guys, but I still think there's current town that have given the given the chance could could find that magic on the Rome without it being so micromanaged, I agree if they're given the chance if they let them do it, and I'm just not so sure they let them do it. Now, I understand that, you know, the performance center now that they do have our lease at one time, they had promos classes, or whatever. And, but if you're going to just memorize the script, you know, just I don't know what good promo classes, do, you know, this kind of all started the first time. I remember things being scripted was I'd worked for Jim Crockett promotions. They were bought by Turner Broadcasting Vince hired me at the beginning of nineteen eighty nine. And I started going on the road doing TV with bents and every time we would have a NBC's Saturday night main event, the NBC people with dick ever. Saw would come in. And they would have they would script out everything. The Oakland would say they would script out everything the wrestlers say, and that's the first time I remembered that happening and apart from Vince doing the Saturday night scripted stuff everything back in the WWF back. Then wasn't scripted. They just did their own promos the whole Cogan provos the Randy macho man savage promos back, then we're not scripted. But when they did him for NBC's Saturday night main event it was scripted. And that was the first time, and I guess they've taken that idea and just let it ballooned over the years and the WWE. So you've mentioned now. How you went up to WFAN nineteen Eighty-nine. How does that whole process happen? Because again to to me, you're the voice of end up ya. And then all of a sudden, right? What it was a big deal to us. And it was at first it was it was strange at first. I was like, whoa. I it's so strange to hear your voice with that lighting in that ring and and these camera angles. So how how does that all come about? Well, regardless of what's been said, and I Conrad plate Jim cornet interview for me shooting interview that happened a couple of years ago and said that I left because I was upset because Jim Ross was getting bigger push. And I was I was not at all. I got a call from Vince McMahon JJ Dylan had gone up there to work and change as said Vince would like to talk to you and the tiny JJ, very friendly. And and he said, would you talk? Vincent. I said. Yeah. In Vince called me Vinci's I'm looking for someone to replace me. Because I think I need to walk away from being in announcer and get someone to replace me on the two shows were superstars and challenge. Denounced teams were just convinced on superstars guerrillan in Bobby Heenan on challenge been said, I like to I like to bring you up because I I like your voice like you're now teaching style. And I I'm looking for someone to replace me. And I said, okay. I'll be glad to come up. So we set up this time for me to come up or to go up to Stanford Connecticut, actually to Greenwich, Connecticut, where he's house was to meet with him. And as you know, the wrestling business is now and even was back, then there's nothing to secret the very next day. Jim heard called me says Heiner stand you're talking to vents what the hell is going on here. He said, well, then we can't use you. If that's the way you're going to be any hung up on me. So I turn around called, Vince. And Vince said that's fine. You're on the payroll today, you're hired any hire me over the phone. I went up and talked to him and was hired. And then I don't know what happened guys. Maybe I wasn't the answer. He thought I was but he kinda lost confidence. In me. I did summer slam. He didn't use me for survivor series. And that's back when they had the four pay per views. Yeah. You used me for Royal? Rumble only because he got he was down in Boca with these family that day we were in Orlando to roll rubble, and they spent so much time down in the sun in Boca that when he got to the Royal rumble in Orlando. He didn't want to do the show was gonna be Jesse. So I remember the eighty start. He looked at me said you have your tux today. I went yesterday said good you're doing play by play. I don't wanna do it. So I did play by play then but still he had lost his confidence in me. And and it wasn't easy to to live up there in Connecticut with you know, we had five young kids. And so, you know, I came back, but I going up there thinking that you know, I'm gonna stay up here the rest of my life. And really, I I don't think he was the announcer that read in other words, he hired me. And then I then I think he thought this is not the guy and went to replace me on on superstars they use me on challenge with gorilla monsoon, we're a little bit. Now, do you think like, you said Connecticut, is is a way different place to live and with five kids and up routing and all of those things that has to play into everything. Oh, yeah. Listen. I mean, we're talking eighty nine and two to have and we had five small children the bedtime real. This was five. And or six around that age, and we to live into a quote unquote decent neighborhood where you felt safe. Houses were five hundred fifty six hundred thousand dollars a year to buy back, then and we couldn't aboard of Ford to buy a house, and we were renting a house, and it just we we were trying to make the best of it. But it wasn't a good life for us up. There really was. And that's that's the main reason we came back. Plus, you know, I I drank the koolade of Jim hurt. Jim Barnett coming back with a whole lot more money, which they did pay me a lot more money. And and decided I would come back to the south. But I tell you, and I've said this before it's it's it's the decision. I regret to this day. Really? I I really do. I really I had a great year the WWF. I really did. I learned so much about television production. They had me the producer of their home videos that time which were Colosseum videos. I learned a lot got to work some great. People built some friendships of people who still work up there and production that down still friends with and. I've had a great life here in Georgia. And I've got a lot of people my been able to do some other sports, but I had it all over again. I would have never left. Hey, especially considering you know, I mean, I guess you get used to living anywhere. But. It really is a different beast. Isn't it the WWE now in India how they do things and how they operate? It really Ilia. I realize I was working for Crockett promotions. I didn't know what to edit suite was and I came up to work, Vincent, man. He had this. Big titan TV, you know, one twenty Hamilton. And I know you guys have been there. And it was hey, blew my mind. I'm thinking man, this is big time. TV I've gone I've gone from small operation big time TV and high really thought that my career was often running. But I had a decision of what is best for my career. What is best for my family and the family back then so I came back a week after I came back. I came back to basically what I had left. So I was in the small operating went to Vince was in a big production. Operation had a great support staff. Great people to work for great working. Nations went back. Now, Jim Crockett promotions have been bought by Turner Broadcasting. But it was the same small time operation, and I came back and week later, I called Vince back and only talked to Emily Feinberg secretary. So you know, what I said I've made a gigantic the steak I wanna come back, and she's well, let me talk vents and she called me back Vinson calling me back. She said talk of the mid said, you got those small children U upper them you were living in Charlotte. You move the Connecticut you up again. Now, you move back to Lanta. He says it's best for you. And your family to stay there and make the best of it. And obviously I did. And to be honest with you. I don't know if that was him being nice saying, you know, I don't want that guy anymore. So just stay up there. So, but when I first came back, and I was ready to go. I would have gone back to Connecticut, I would have gone back to live in a hotel and kept my family down here. All right. We gotta take a quick break from Tony because we want to tell you about something. 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So you never miss the right moment to invest rub is giving listeners of ENC's pot of awesome free stock like apple four sprint to help you build your portfolio sign up. Awesomeness dot Robin, Hood dot com. The monastic question you're saying that, you know, with the being such a much bigger operation than what you had been used to do you think that and you know, you move back for family reasons, do you think professionally that maybe that first year was kind of, you know, getting your feet wet so to speak kind of learning the system getting used to the bigger production. Do you think that after that, professionally things might have turned you feel like it might might be turning when you left or is that kind of what weighs into your kind of regretting it in the sense. Well, it was it was turning anyway. And now, I'm gonna tell you why was turning because again, you know, it will kid became very parent to me after summer slam that Vince did like my commentary as much as he thought in his mind that he did. So I think professionally as announcer. It was turning downward towards me within but I love producing really do. I love being a producer. I love sitting edit sessions love creating stuff. And that's where I really enjoyed it. And that's I had a feeling that production-wise producing my career was on the upswing. And so I just it was it was kind of a crossroads for me there, and you know, looking back on it. I know that things changed a great deal for him. You know, JJ was up there and apparently JJ had his money cut later. He may Vince may of cut my money enough. I stayed there little bit longer. I don't know because I know that you know, things that had turned down for him at one time as Evan flow of businesses concern. I don't know. But sometimes I wish I would have given it another another year another two years to see if we just hung in there. Maybe the family would have adapted. My wife is from the south some this. Oh, sure, she would have maybe my family would have adapted in professionally. I would've I know it would have been happy because and they happy times I spent was not doing voice overs was not doing the paper views the happy times. I've spent was in the edit suite creating the videos and in going out and doing we did video we did little. Vignettes with Gene-o Kalin and in the bush-whackers, and I did with Jimmy snuck. I just I enjoy doing stuff like that. And and that's what I really enjoyed about. It. But you so you go back down south. But you're there when WCW takes off that that has to be an exciting time. And and we were with me at that point. So we're just kind of started to get our traction when when the whole wars started what what was the mentality? I know what the mentality wasn't WWE. What was the mentality down there? Well, the talented wasn't and I can only speak for what I heard from Eric Bischoff. The mentality was we were very grateful, and we wanted Eric wanted to beat vents. I remember this. Remember this as sure as we're sitting here. Now, we were at the target center, Minneapolis. And obviously if you run into target center, Minneapolis, you're doing pretty good business. We were doing nitro and airy Kadam meeting in catering, and I never will forget him saying this. He said. He says you should be in this business to have fun. And I don't know about you guys. I'm having fun, but I will not be satisfied until I take a stake in drivers events, McMahon's heart. I remember him saying that. Well, clearly, and I remember seeing the same thing, you just said, wow. I mean, this this is serious. This war is serious was personal for him. Now. Then when I found out he ended up being on Vinson's TV, kind of blew my mind that that would happen. But that's how serious the war was for him. And it was it was I never had that never had the animosity feeling because Jim Rawson, I've always been friends, and I never felt any ill will about any promotion anybody because I think that wrestling it'd be good. Everybody's got to be successful. And if it's successful, then it makes us better if we're successful. What makes Vince better competition makes everybody better? So I always I I never felt ill will against anybody. I never thought we should try to knock anybody out of business. But there was a very aggressive because from Eric who's very aggressive feeling that we need to you know, kick Vince asked, and I think when it happened in in effect was we battled and everybody got better because. Yeah. Absolutely and win. So when did it feel like? Eric's kind of vision was actually starting to come to fruition. Like wasn't when Nash and hall came or or was it before that? Well, I think it really started. When when he brought in HOGAN that to me because it it. It actually. It actually, you know, gave us that that rub that mainstream. Rub that HOGAN was with us to me though. The biggest moment we had a lot of big moments. We had a lot of moments that I think would what's big. And I know wrestling fans kinda like, you know, look down their nose added that you know, that wasn't good. But to me the biggest moment that I remember was when I turned on the tonight show a Jay Leno and Eric Bischoff and HOGAN had chase shayla no off. And when it came back from commercial Herrick was Jay leno's desk. And I remember thinking, oh my God. That's crazy. That's big WCW. Jay Leno show. They've taken over the Jalen, of course, it was angle leading up to you know, Leno and diamond Dallas against Eric and HOGAN, but that was a big deal because I can remember back in the when I first started back with WCW. We're talking about the early nineties. We would do anything to get that that rub from mainstream media. We do anything, you know, somebody would say back in the eighties. I think the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles and is in the stance. Anybody gonna shine quick? I mean so much to us. Well, that's how we try to get that rub. And we can never get it. And now all of a sudden because of HOGAN here, we were, you know, taking over the tonight show. None of those later in obviously hall and Nash coming over was a big deal as well. But I I really think bringing HOGAN in was the thing that that really started us on the right track. Although I mean, you can look and see that until hall Nash came in a year later, we didn't really start. Doing big business until in right? And then as business to grow in nitro debuted and all those sorts of things. And obviously, you know, like, you said earlier, you know, you went to WWE kind of big machine, you know, you were a relatively small operation before. But now, you know, w w kind of getting that point right with their production values kind of on the same level as WWE's where did you feel more prepared at that point as well? And kind of more comfortable when that happened. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We we had sweets. Well, we moved out of the CNN center had our own facility. And it was pretty nice associate really was. So it felt more on par of what I remembered of my days in Stanford Connecticut, and if we were doing the right thing, although you know, I mean, they're obviously, you know, things went downhill, and there's so many things you can point to to. But I I really think that because they wanted us to do a new show which was thunder. I think that's what started. Our trend downward. I just I I I. I kinda a lot of Eric Eric's meetings. I remember I remember Eric sane that he had a meeting with production. And he said that. They want us to do another show for TBS. And this, you know, we were nitro was grade on TNT they want to do it live show weekly show for TBS. He said, I don't think we can do it. I don't think we have the manpower to do it. And he said enlist Ted Turner comes to me and says we're going to do it. We're not gonna do thunder. And so we all let the meeting we were not going to do we wouldn't call thunder that we're not going to do a TV I live show, and I guess Ted came and said, he we're gonna do it because wasn't that long after that a month or so after that we started doing it? So I think that's because I think we were I think we were just spreading ourselves too thin, and you know, thinking declined way. Yeah. Because from a talent perspective. I mean, the roster was huge. The was definitely in terms of of the wrestling talent there there was enough. But do you think oversaturation like you said spread too thin and just just too much because I kind of feel that way. Now when I see the amount of three hour, raw and two hours back down. Yeah. Yeah. It's just it's just it's just too much. And I, but I think it's red is send because I really don't think that we had the budget fort. I all of a sudden, I think, you know, you're doing a second live show that's expensive. And so I think it it. It does out money wise too. And then all of a sudden, you know, we're we now we can't do it live. We gotta tape it. Now we were going out Monday doing live nitro Monday in life thunder on Thursday. We started taping thunder the next day on Tuesday. And then things got so bad moneywise that we had to tape thunder the same night as nitro afterwards. And so I just think that we were not only town we have plenty of talent. But we didn't have the production personnel, nor the funds to be able to stay up stay up and do that. So we made a mistake there. But you know, what? So that's that's the that's the here's the thing. That's the difference between Vince McMahon running wrestling company and us being working for television company. Yeah. And and to me, I always knew I always knew if there was going to be a winner in this four, and I didn't know if there'd be a winner in a loser. If you wanna call it that. But I always knew it was going to be a winner the war. It was going to be fence because it was his company the buck stops with him. And we had answer to a television company. Eighty care go on another show for what does that's what we do. And then again, if you think about it we were doing so much that try to make nitro so big and elevate nitro that nitro even bigger than our paper views sometimes because it was a turn of product. And they wanted the Turner probably to get good numbers. So. Yeah. It's it's tough to bet against the the guy who's third generation, right? In wrestling. And that's that's his his bread and butter, you know, as much he's tried the XFL WBF or these things it's still always going to boil down to hit the WWE his baby. And like you said the buck stops there gets right? So. You've you've been involved in so many calls over the years. And this may be a hard question. What is what is your favorite, or what is the one that you instantly? Remember? Okay. This is this is really out there. But it's it's true. What I remember more? What one thing sticks out me more than anything else was? In nineteen eighty nine. Keep in mind, I've been working again for Crockett's, and I've been working for small time. Mom, dad family operation, and there was a Saturday afternoon. Where Lord Alfred Hayes, and I did the WWF cart at Madison Square Garden for MSN. And it was HOGAN big boss man in the cage where they did the super plex from the top of the cage, and then we got into a an airplane flew to the Boston Garden, and we do show on New England sports network at night now for nine did that to me is the most memorable day I've ever had in Russell because being Madison Square Garden for the first time, you know, you guys felt when you were Madison Square Garden with it's deal. And so to me being able to work Madison Square Garden in the day and Boston guard the Boston Garden tonight was the most memorable day. The most bed to HOGAN, boss, man, cage match was most memorable match that I've ever done a never forget that as long as live. And you know, we I had some great moments with WW with WCW. I know, but some great Nitra moments had Gobert, you know, beat HOGAN at the Georgia Dome. We had HOGAN turn he'll that was a big. Moment. Yeah. Did you go back, and you and you watch it interviews how didn't realize the time. But you watch it. It'd be that's one of the great, Hugh interviews. Yeah. That that I'd ever seen. I mean, garbage everywhere and flying. What is it was? It was it was kind of it was again, it was not scripted. It was off the cuff, and it was HOGAN do anything. And so that was a big moment. And we've had you know, a lot of big moments that we did. But still man nothing excites. Me nothing is burned into my memory. And my brain like that double shot that I did being on TV, both, you know, the MSN Madison Square Garden network New England sports network and doing HOGAN, boss, man. You know, both both shows. It was great. It really was. No, that's you know, like, I wasn't expecting that at all. But that's that's an amazing story. So you talk about memorable memorable moments or days in the business and memorable match. How about his far as a broadcasting partner who stands out to you as somebody that you you had just undeniable chemistry where some of the major feel completely comfortable with much like having a good tag team partner. Right. Like, you just know where the person is doing what they're thinking where they're going to be much the same. Who's that for you? Yeah. You know? I that's that's always been a tough question for me. Because I've always I really always enjoyed everyone at work with. I really loved Lord Alfred Hayes because he was a great, man. I I learned a lot from gorilla monsoon because he was such. He was such in the short period of time. I knew him he was such a a teacher, and you know, really cared about my work and try to give me, you know, vice being with Jesse was was great being with today. And he, you know, I remember some of the. Times. But I thought I had my best chemistry with JR. I thought Jim Rawson. I really get some great work. And I'm talking about back in the, you know, the they crooked as when we worked together we're talking about probably eighty seven eighty nine those years or probably eighty seven eighty eight those years when I got to work with JR. I thought we did my best work with him. I just because we both were passionate about the product. We both knew what we wanted to do as far as get these guys over get this match over. We didn't step on each other. We both have tremendous respect for each other. And and he probably was the best I've ever worked with. So. In terms of matches. Because you I mean, gosh, you have been ringside and calling as the greatest matches ever. And I know you ride HOGAN Bosman in the cage and MSG and that being a memorable memorable day and moments, but in in would it be that match or would is there another match that you think of that you you just went man, I am so a killing this commentary and in this match is amazing. And we're telling this all of us are telling this story is is there matched that you can think of like that. First of all, I honestly I never thought during the course of doing a match that I'm thinking, I'm killing it really really hard on myself. I really am. And always have been anybody knows me knows that I, you know, I'm I'm a biggest critic, and I don't even. Do it again. I'll just say okay over let's move to the next one. But it it really has to be it has to be when Goldberg beat HOGAN in at the Georgia Dome. Because the fans were just so into it. And it was such a great atmosphere, and it ended up, you know, end up being a pretty pretty good match told a great story about Gobert. And I think that was probably the one. I mean, I've watched it and hit. So it was a pretty electric moment. I was almost going to say diamond Dallas page and David Arquette. But I thought now I don't want to say that. No, it was it was HOGAN and and Goldberg at the Georgia Dome. So the question so when when WCW you know, when away and was was was there any thought of continuing at that time in the business over that like, well, I'm just gonna move onto the next thing. I know you've done some baseball broadcasting sports radio shows and things like that. Was it just like look I'm just going to try to figure something else out now, or what was your mindset after that? Well, my mindset was. You know, I was making very good money for Turner Broadcasting. And I knew wrestling was coming to an end. And I was I was out beating the streets looking for a job long before WCW in down because I could just see it coming you could. And there was nothing to guarantee me about going to work for Vince when WCW went down, I had I had a great. I had a great landing. I really did. I the severance package with Turner was wonderful. It was eighteen months severance. So for eighteen months. I still was was making my assume had health insurance was make my same salary. So eighteen months severance, but I also the same day it closed down. I close down at ten o'clock in the morning, and I was hired that very afternoon at two o'clock at a radio station in Atlanta WSB that happened to be doing the Atlanta Braves network. So I got back into baseball by doing that what I really wanted to. I really wanted to go back to work prevents because I wanted to I just didn't trust radios. I just didn't trust that would be making enough money for radio. And but Vincent want me back. They wouldn't return my calls or anything. They had nothing for me. And. So I there was I guess about three months after that, I'm realizing well, this is it I'm done. Now. I did some things if you guys remember for a little while they had an ex WF that Jimmy Hart and the nasty boys. Yes, ran we Jerry Lawler night did something and it was done that down in Florida at Universal Studios. And there was a that. Maybe this would you know, this would prosper, but nothing happened out of that. So after that went down I thought that's it. I'm done with wrestling. I'm just gonna move on. And they started TNA. This is the very early part of TNA. They had events Russo handy come in with to do an angle with Mike today where walked in turn to heal on him. And we drove back that night. And I was working for the radio station doing morning sports, which means I had to be in the being at four AM. We drove back from Nashville at night. And I remember I told bent events I. Appreciate you wanted me to work for you guys. But I'm done. That's it. I'm completely done with the business, and that was probably two thousand being in two thousand three if my memory serves me correctly, and I knew I was done with then after Vince not wanting me when I wanted to call me back and going back and doing something and just didn't have the passion for that. I used to I knew I was I said, okay. It's time to reinvent myself to go onto to do different things. And I've been very fortunate. I have been able to do that. Wrestling always said, it's like the mob, though. You're never out. You're never. Right. It. It's in your blood and your your soundtrack for people your soundtrack for generation of wrestling fence. You're never fully out. At what point what was it? When did you say, okay. I'm going to get my toes back in. Yeah. Well, it was the beginning of twenty seventeen when Conrad Thompson sent me a an Email that city at an idea to do a a podcast would I like to do a podcast now? This wasn't just a a random Email. Hey, would you like to a podcast give me a call? This was like a three page Email of here's what we can do. Here's how much money I think we can make if we get sponsors. You can open up yourself. A T shirt store. Pro wrestling teas. And then we'll go out, and we'll try to do it live. And I remember talking to my wife and saying do we really wanna do this again? And then she said, well, you know, your daughter's got a wedding coming up at a year. We if it's gonna make some extra money, we could use it. So I told Conrad. Yeah. And in the end of January twenty seventeen we started doing our podcast and. It the response. Absolutely. And still does today just blew me away. And now we go out we do live shows. And you know, we do. We got a patriot and page, and we just we've we've developed a great following and the the feedback. I get is just wonderful. I mean, it's it's strokes your ego. It makes you feel good about what you were doing in the past, and, you know, making a little bit of money now, which is good and. And I'm starting to watch the product again to know. Tell you what I I didn't watch. Any wrestling didn't watch any wrestling been watching events wrestling shows. But I after we started doing our show Conrad said you probably should start watching the the product now. So I watched I watched the Royal rumble of twenty seventeen. It was my first wrestling show that I done or had watched in seventeen years sixteen years, and I kinda got back into it. And so that kind of just starting the podcast with him got me back into it. And you know being able to connect with these fans, and it's it's wonderful. It really is. You have some upcoming events to write with with the live podcast. Oh, yeah. We're going to be in. We're going to be in New York City at. We're going to be in Brooklyn. We're going to be the day of wrong. This is the day after wrestlemainia we're going to be at little field, which is just. It's performance art center, which is not too far the Barclay center will be there to thirty in the afternoon, and it's going to be a combo show with me and Eric Bischoff. So started to thirty go up to six o'clock. So you got plenty changes to go in and see raw. And and Eric I've done a show together. Now for the we didn't want it his Chicago for the first time onstage for the first time. And I since two thousand one and got the reconnect, and we had a lot of fun with that. You know, airy told some stories and blame me for bunch of stuff. And I told them stories and blamed him for everything. And and you know, I I know you guys know Conradi is the biggest instigator ever. In the world. Stirred up and doing it again and then in June. I'm going to be in Saint Louis and in Baltimore in June. I'm going to we're trying to work out something where I'm going to be up in Toronto during summer slam time. But I, you know, I'm still doing still doing the Braves triple eighteen their minor league team triple eighteen which here in the metro Atlanta area. So I got my baseball commitments. But they let me out doing wrestling to do some things. And so I still got that going on as well. But the big thing is New York coming up wrestlemainia weekend because I haven't been to well, I was at wrestle con in Orlando a couple years ago, but I'm going to be in New York during wrestlemainia, I guess I'm gonna go to wrestlemainia which will be the first wrestlemania. I've gone to since since I was back stage at wrestlemanias six in Toronto. Wow. Yeah. How about that? So. I was. I really am. I'm just really having a great time. And on the busiest I've ever been my life with this with baseball. You know, worked for the university of Georgia. I'm producer their radio network. So I got commitment during football season in basketball season, amend doing commentary for Email w although that's kind of winding down, and I'm just just really enjoy myself. I really am. It's here. And I think what's also good too. As you're obviously creative person. I think it's good when you can wear multiple hats because it keeps everything fresh. Yeah. Go one further than that. There's something I really wanted to ask you about, you know, saying, you know, wearing multiple hats and keeping things fresh that you actually worked at Starbucks just because you wanted to do it pack. I thought I read that I was like that is like that's amazing that you just it was you had some time extra time. And you wanted to do it C went and did. And I think that's been that's the coolest thing. And here's here's the great news about that. Here's what was great about Starbucks. I love Starbucks. There's one close to the house. You're not always told my wife. I said man that looks so cool to be able to do that. So they hired me. I went up there thinking they'll never hired with you had to apply online. So now I've developed such a great relationship with the Starbucks people. The the manager in this area told me if ever you want to give everything up we love to have you back. So I guess I can always go back and work. Starbucks. Wonderful about it. I would I would I would I would be there. And I've worked the dry through our work are at work, the the machines or work the front register or whatever, and I would sit and listen to all the girls at work with me, and they were like twenty three twenty five years old, right? I'm this old guy working with them. And I listen to them gossip about each other. It was the greatest thing in my life been listening that gossip. Morning. Just just thinking about some of the petty problems. They had and so the big problems that I going through in my life. Just listen to them nag and ditch about each other. And and I it was a wonderful time. And then it goes in with the with all doing with baseball and basketball. And then I got to this podcast. And we started traveling and everything doing shows, I told the Starbucks people. Listen, I can't do this anymore. But I did it because I wanted to do it. And it's great. I'm telling you, it's they say, it's one of the great places to work. It really really is good people. Left to come through the drive through. Come to the drive through. And have you take my order and and announce it like, you're like a match, you know. Christian come on by. And here's a nice Cup. Hot Cup of go kiss my ass for something. I would have liked to join up and go drive away. And goes did I just hear to shivani? There were only like there weren't many people that did that there were couple of months. Did it that recognize me I went, and I absolutely would've I would've known right away. But I, you know, most of the people I came in were like moms in the morning because I worked the morning shift. Moms wanna get taking the kids to to school or something they always in a rush. So. And it's you know, I got to flirt with all the moms, and regardless of what the age was. How you doing having a great day to see you know, like that. So it was good. It was a very rewarding experience really was. Wow. So I mean talk about a a roller coaster ride that that's great. I had no idea that that you did that did you find in doing that just the personal interaction was that the stimulating aspect of that? Yeah. That in the fact that I that I really I I was very interested in in Starbucks. I mean, every time I go to Starbucks. I would always go why they held in. I think at this. Good god. So, but yeah, the the personal interaction being able to talk to people like I said, you know, the twenty four and twenty five year old girls that you know, that would always complain about one they talked to me about one. And then just the, you know, the friction that they would have. And and I got these girls and we've got to be real good friends. And now, I go up there now, and man there's hugs going on all the time. Girls run from back in hug me and just a built some great friendships and great relationships by working up there. And and that's you know, that's, but I tell you guys working in saw working in service. You know, where you gotta deal with the public sometimes can be a little bit grinding if the coffee's not right, or, you know, something happens where they didn't get what they want. You know, some people can be I I don't know people who do that full-time. I don't know how they do it. Sometimes. Yeah. But it it can be a little bit champion. Good thing. To get out. And maybe it's a good thing. Adam didn't come through. He's kinda high maintenance with his flat white. Are you really do? I do like a flat white blonde rose to almond milk. That's my drinks. One one lady who came back through drive thru one day, and we had this this had to be back when we we had this peppermint mocha's in they had, you know, the chocolate shavings on it or whatever. And she came back through and said, I don't have enough. Chocolate shavings, home I've ever been Boca. So I handed off my manager was staying there. Emmanuel and dumped chocolate shavings. Chanted to she says if she doesn't like this you can show on it is well, I'm not gonna say that tour. So I ended the lady sixty and that's perfect. I'm thinking it better. Be because there's a lot of lady. So well, it's funny that you said, you know, one of the things he took away from Starbucks with stories because for me for j I think I speak for an entire generation of wrestling fans. Is you told us the stories of what we were watching, and you translated it to us. So know we've already kept you in hours. So I wanna thank you for that. And it seems like telling stories is kind of what you do best. Well, you guys saying that and listen, it's it's a big deal for me to talk to you guys have had great career. Congratulations on that. And you you deserve every great thing. That's come your way. And it means a you would have on your show when Conrad say, hey, you wanna be on with Christian with hell? Yeah. You man. So absolutely. So. We could talk another hour because there's you know, the more. I talked the more you remember and great feelings about the business. And I appreciate the time. You guys spent with me, but we appreciate you haven't having anyone as well. And look forward to meeting you in person, and we'll save the rest of the stories for the the cross promotion ENC pod. And and your podcast when when you got it. All right, guys. Thank you very much. Thanks, good one. All right. Hey that was a great talk with Tony. But before we go any further, let me tell you about WW super cards. This week's episode of pot of us is brought to you by WWE super card season. Five step into the squirts circle with rectangular cards of imitating cents. Brother WBZ supercars the collectible card battle game. Enjoyed by millions of WWE fans, featuring your favorite WW, superstars legends and more such as the rock stone. Go to Boston AJ styles. Becky Seth Rollins Ron arousing whereas edging Christian coming. I'm here. Crusher opponents in real time player versus player matches exclusive rewards and Royal rumble and eliminating chamber matches participate in when rotating events and competing Tang of the ring tournaments like I want wonder to earn the top cards season. Five of W. E supercar is available now four free in the apple app store. Google play in Amazon apps store for all of our loyal listeners. That's all review, you hoes IRS. We have a special gift for you. Visit WW dot to dot com slash awesome. To get your free card pack to help boost your car deck. Get a leg up or a leg drop on the nation. Like that that's WWW dot to dot com slash awesome for a free card pack. I mean talk about a guy who you know, you think of the voices of wrestling. And I think JR's the only guy that you think of. As a voice for for end of UA. And and for WWE to me, Tony is. He him and Bob cobbler, the quintessential, you know, and w way WCW voices and then Tony for WCW by himself for no for sure. And he's one of those guys which is obviously why he has such a successful podcast because the twenty does Bassey tell stories, and you know, just talking to them right now get a little bit of nugget. And then he's gonna tell you stories. So it's just interesting to sit back in this into him talk. You know, and he's done so much seen so much had so much experience. I mean, you know. Yeah. It was it was a great interview. And and you know, really, I'm looking forward to meeting him in person someday. Because you think about like how many, you know, legends of this business that have had the pleasure in the privilege of meeting. And and he's and he's one guy that I haven't so. Yeah. Looking forward to it and easy seems like a really really donor with cool guy with with a ton of stories. Yeah. And I think with him, and Eric and the stories they can. Tell that be that'd be very fun live show. To catch and just see kind of the inner workings of what was happening in a really really crazy turbulent successful time within the industry, you know, when to Tony point. And we've said it competitions a good thing. It's good competition because it makes it ups everyone's game. So that was fun. Those an interest fat. Yeah. Know what not having to talk to you after this for like another week. Yup. Yep. You can try it again without me if you on. Well. Like a baby's sulky. Have Scott Dawson kiss? He again, I was not expecting that. Are you? You're talking about picture that was posted on talking picture. You know, if you're not jealous at work to saying, you're mad. You're mad. You're mad that he kissed me. Well. Whatever your idea of our partnership is far different than mine. I think listen, you you were a slap as slab relationship basis. All right. This one another man kisses me on the. Don't give these fucking marks the wrong idea. Right jeeze. We'd really don't like each other. It's a strictly business proposition here between range of it. That's what I meant. You know it. Malkin cycled in my head. If that's even word ca fangled. Hey, real quick. Real quick. We got we got at least mention this. The Lisa full an apartment. Not this is the best time for the to happen right before the playoffs. You talking about is it would have been better month and a half ago, and they they rebound and you start their their their Deb defensemen. That are just coming back that haven't come back yet. So not they're still needs some work. Right. But I think this is the best time for this to happen to them. Because then though, you know, they'll they'll they'll they'll amp up in the playoffs. I think you're crazy. They're gonna be Boston. The first round I can guarantee that I think Aaron t I think I think Boston is a one line team there one line could be and in their goaltending has been strong. So I think that's what's gotten to more to where they're at. So during far Pinon, I'm not gonna get into goaltending with you their numbers look at the percentage of of the offense. One line boss makes lamb. It will last week hoses. You know, how hot J gotta may because I was on sports net. And he wasn't. And then he disagreed with my opinion. We there was some umbrage. Apparently, you could hear it, folks. He was mad at me. But then he dumped water on his crotch that made everything better. The obstacle fire crotch and water crutch. Also, are I saw a lot of our NC pot of awesomeness Bill and Ted's t-shirt kicking around in Lexington. Gotta tell you. I might be a little biased. That might be my favorite shirt that ever a. Yeah. Yeah. It was my deal. Why wouldn't it be? It was but part of it was I'm gonna pay when year devil horns, and my my hand over the is little. Yeah. Saying the whole thing was your idea as a little bit. I think that's much noble. We did. We did meet the artist there that that the made the drawing which was which is pretty amazing and took some pictures with them. Great job. And. Yeah, I mean these marks walking lower with this shirt on they love it. Hey, and we got next week's episode. And then and then we're in the mania. So who knows who we're going to get up in in New York. What's going to happen? It's going to be bedlam. I. Yeah. It's going to be better. You'll hear. Yeah. Dennis Miller on the Dennis Miller option. You will hear my uncensored take on current events politics. Pop culture and anything else that crosses my mind about he's kept in people on if you hate his guts, I think he's amazing Lee. He's an amazingly pins in rhinoceros. Dennis Miller option is free to get on apple podcast, Google podcasts or where ever you get your punk. On the Westwood One podcast network.

Vince Jim Crockett Rick flair WWF Charlotte Vince McMahon Jay Leno Tony shivani wrestling Eric Bischoff Vincent producer HOGAN Jim Ross Vince McMahon JJ Dylan baseball WCW Jesse guerrilla Tommy Roberts
Royal Fashion with Elizabeth Holmes

Bad On Paper

1:22:52 hr | 9 months ago

Royal Fashion with Elizabeth Holmes

"Hi everyone. Welcome back to bat on paper podcast. I'm becca freeman. And i'm grace atwood. I'm so excited to talk to our guest today. Who's elizabeth holmes. Not theranos was with homes. The royals elizabeth holmes. Yes but before we get into it. Today's episode is sponsored by night the makers of our all time favorite pillow and the facemask. We have in heavy rotation these days. We also have some exciting news. They're actually starting black. Friday early for bad on paper listeners. And you can get thirty percent off all month long with code. B o p thirty. So how you doing. i'm good. I had a little bit of a headache so we are recording. Today's wednesday the day after the day after the election. We don't know what's happening. Yeah i was up way past my bedtime. I had a couple too many drinks. I've been on the couch all day. Just glued to cnn. It's been a day it has been. Yeah i cable. News is its own form of stress. Yet i mean the music and just like the. It's very like high stress. Yeah i was watching Abc last night and they had this music which felt very inspired. By game of thrones for whatever they showed the projected results it feels like game with her. And i was like the uses music show many times i was like this. Music is going to haunt me for the rest of my life. Did you see on twitter on instagram. There's been means going around. Are you watching the season. Finale of of america. Are you watching the season. Finale of twenty twenty no. I haven't seen that made me laugh. Because i felt like i was watching like the season finale of like a really intense show. Like game of thrones. Yeah once your high my high my high tide. This is like some people's worst nightmare. I had the best most antisocial weekend. So i've been really working very hard to put in some better boundaries with me and work like i said this last year i had the boundaries. I was doing so well. I wasn't working weekends. And then quarantine cova came into place and like it's like oh i don't have anything to do. Might as well do my. Dm's might as well go on instagram. And it's not healthy like we're not built to just be w- constantly working on our phones. So i got all of my work done including like writing mondays blog posts by friday afternoon and i work at all like i look at my computer. I haven't done that in so long. That's amazing is the best feeling. And i read a couple bucks. I was like rotating between my anti racist book which is just mercy by bryan stevenson. I also watched the movie. I'm reading joyful by ingrid fatally which is my nonfiction. Read that i'm doing right now. I like to have like a few nonfiction books that i read the chapter eleven. Then i have my like benji thriller or like my rom com or whatever it is so i was reading like from those and then i read an entire thriller which i'll tell you guys about when we do the book. Yeah i was gonna say spoilers. But i've read so much. I worked on a puzzle. The one social thing i did was you came over. We watch cited twice. Yeah we had a movie night and then we started the puzzle. The puzzle is so hard and then the next day you came over to do a little more puzzle. But you're the only person i saw. I feel honored. I like just lazily naps. During the day. I read so much i watched so many movies. I watch the. Did you end up watching the roberts movie. Yes but as you think that it's terrible okay. I enjoyed it but it was terrible. It was just what i wanted because it's so cheesy. I didn't like it. I thought it was poorly written. I thought it was poorly written like more poorly acted. This is the holiday holidays. Yes and i was also. I felt slightly dupes that it wasn't fully christmas. It wasn't a christmas movie. And i think that's why i liked. It was just a cheesy movie. I totally have a time and a place for cheesy and like lord knows i like cheesy movie like i don't have highbrow taste as we have covered at lane but i did not love that movie. I definitely didn't love it. But i liked it. It lake scratched in it for me like i just needed something silly and stupid and that was it and the guys hot who guy so. He is an australian. After the whole time so i looked him up online. His name is names luke bracy. Yeah that's right. I looked online and it turns out that he's only thirty one which would also mean that. He was probably like thirty or twenty nine when he was filming the movie. I'm convinced he's lying about his age. He has like or maybe at sutton but my god. He's got so many wrinkles. No i was older. I like the uses an older guy. Oh oh my god i was. I was very deepen stocking cam wallet. I was watching the movie. Oh my god wow you know. It didn't do it for me. I'm very excited for the one on hulu with dan. Levy and kristen stewart. And i can't remember who else isn't it. I don't know anything about that. It's a lesbian. Oh and the one. The songs from it came out on by. What am i. Specify discovery weekly playlist. It's a teagan and sara christmas song and it's like a total bop. Oh great. So but i i love dmv from shits creek. And i feel like kristen. Stewart is very polarizing. I actually kinda liked her. So yeah i'm excited about that one. There's also a dolly parton one coming out Well we've got lots of movies coming down the bike. That's good and if you had listened to last week's episode. We did all the movies tv. Yeah so i have. I don't really have a high at nothing anything's bad i just don't have any specifics. I mean my silly high is that grace caved into the puzzle with me. If you've been let's start a with you but you can't come in and work on my puzzle. Quit the puzzle i did. I hated it. There were so many all white pieces. I was like this is actual physical torture. So we finished all the champagne glasses on the wine glasses and then when there was only just solid white pieces left. I was like i'm done. So if you've been listening throughout quarantine you know that. I think a puzzle is a group activity in grace. Thinks it's a solo activity and so getting her to cave and do a puzzle with me was like a very big accomplishment. I enjoyed. I enjoy puzzling with you a lot. It was great. I had a good time. You were way better at that puzzle than i was. I i also just like fuck this at one point. She ordered food. It was eating pizza alone on her couch while i was doing. Yeah that was when there was only white pieces laughs. Yeah so i mean that was like my silly high and then also. I was complaining last week about my back. And i've started doing. I've rekindled my relationship with melissa isn't she. there's the best she is. I love her. And i've been doing more melissa workouts and it was immediately clear that i felt like. Oh both of jelly. When i did the first one. So it's like kinda nice to be back in the groove. Yeah it takes time. it's good bad. Yeah and it's i feel like as i get stronger. Some of the workers get harder. Because you're suddenly aware of doing it right. Yeah and the muscles. You didn't have weird side muscles that definitely didn't exist like two months ago because sometimes i feel like she'll tell you to do something and i just won't do it like she'll be like and like chodorov down into like a like yoga push like yeah or when she has let you like inside playing and then she wants you to lift your top leg and have it like crunch up to meet your arm. I'm like yeah. That's not going to happen for me today. Melissa but it's something to aspire to. I don't wanna be able to do all of the workouts. Because then if i can then like where do you go from there. I don't know yeah. what about lows. I think it's just been a lot of general uncertainty about the election. I don't wanna like curse us. But right now i'm feeling like decently good been like a lot really overwhelming. I find that. I get really addicted to the news like today. I did no work. It's three thirty or a recording. I kinda planned my my week so that i would really only have to do about two hours of work today because i just knew i'd be like a mass like i worked really late monday. But that's the great thing about being self employed. Is that like looking counter. Like wednesday is going to kind of suck so i will record the podcast. Do like a couple of hours of work. Yeah i agree. I feel like it is my low but it also wasn't expected low. It's not anything that. I didn't expect her like worse than i expected it. Just like is anxiety inducing waiting and to be watching all the news yeah. It's really ominous here. Also i was. I went into the city last night. I had a pre election dinner with katie at kitty torino and Ryan who's on extra extra style and instagram and everything in the city was completely boarded up like even as we were eating dinner asking me about that lay out. A whole city is boarded up a call with people who live outside of new york. Like how are things. In new york and the only thing that's boarded up in williamsburg is the apple store. Yeah like nothing else is boarded up and so i mean i've seen it obviously on the news. I know it's happening. But it feels like a whole different world. Yeah it was crazy like we were eating pasta and they were like drilling into the walls to board up the restaurant's windows. It just felt like very like ominous and foreboding like we are preparing for like the world's end but yeah i just say general nervousness to your point. You're so rational. It's exactly what we expected. So far yeah. So we'll just say but as my low to you know what is also a high. What when people leave us reviews. Oh my god. I love when you guys leave us reviews. I know that we are broken. Record and i also know that you hear this on every single podcast. That's the person that says that i don't understand sarcasm. I mean they'll always be some bad ones. Guess it's we're we're just trying to get the last few people eft because three thousand of you of already leftist reviews on hateful for but yeah every podcast says it because it's the most important thing to apple in terms of like getting discovered so we would appreciate it and if you've already reviewed us and You are obsessed with elizabeth holmes as we are share this upset with her instagram story. Or tell a friend about it. Is that so meaningful to us to help us grow. It also helps us get great gas like when somebody goes to look us up if we asked them to be a guess and they see no. Maybe we've got five thousand reviews. We've only got three right now. That might make them more likely to say. Yes so at harry's getting more people like elizabeth so let's get into our interview with her. Yes so we are so excited. We have elizabeth holmes with us here today who is the author of hr h so many thoughts on royal style. So elizabeth spent over a decade at the wall street journal recently as a senior style reporter and columnist exploring the power of fashion. She's pulled her unique expertise into her first book. A nuance look at the fashion. And branding of the four most influential members of the british royal family queen elizabeth the second princess diana catherine the duchess of cambridge and meghan duchess of sussex. So she was a guest of our san francisco live show last september october. While you were gone we were like that. Feels like it was like ten years ago truly does but we've been dying to have her on the podcast ever since then and we figured that her book was the perfect. Excuse so we are so excited to have you elizabeth. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I don't think that we've ever talked about the royals on this podcast. We're broaching totally new topic territory. Yeah oh welcome to my world. I know i'm excited to be here. So era glittering very glittering so we introduced you ll be great if you could just tell us in your own words. Who is elizabeth holmes and what are what are you all about. Well i should probably say. I'm not that elizabeth holmes get that right out of the way. Well that was our second question which will get into some of your listeners. Might be Disappointed out now. i am. Elizabeth holmes the journalist i Have spent a decade of my career at the wall street journal before that i worked in more local news. I'm i in television and then a local newspaper outside of chicago But the bulk of my career was spent at the wall street journal. was incredible experiences or a life changing experience covered many different things at the journal including the two thousand eight presidential campaign which feels like a lifetime ago yeah it was covering mitt romney John mccain and then sarah palin. I remember how that felt dramatic ferry and i thought it could never get crazier and here But i would say that. I hit my stride at the paper. As a feature reporter was a senior style reporter and columnist and this being the wall street journal i got to cover the business of fashion right so i would. I would go to fashion week And look at the beautiful clothes but then also trying to understand sort of the the inspiration behind the collection and the marketing and the positioning of the branding. And what close could say you know what designers were trying to do and how they were trying to market them to consumers And that was a great introduction. To where i find myself now because it's singing about fashion in an in a new way you sort of put on these glasses and say like what are these clothes trying to say. What are they trying to do. You know what they represent and I happened to be interested in the royal family Happen for almost a decade now and with my new book those to sort of Bubbles of my van diagram have overlapped quite nicely so before we talk about what you do. I wanna talk about what you don't do not the theranos elizabeth holmes and. We got a lot of questions for her. I really made a mistake. Not clarifying that. And the when i did the question box we got like questions being like. How do you feel about lying. You wish you didn't lie and it's like. Oh gosh oh man but i how does that. How does that affect you like. How do you feel about sharing your name with the other elizabeth. Well i have known about her for a quite some time because she infiltrated my google results. Back in my journal days and so much so that i just turned it off because i was like. I can't actually a you. You have a google alert on and You try and keep tabs on like what people are saying. And the unfortunate thing is we share a middle name to no It's her middle. Name is an and minus two. She spells it with an e. And i do not So unfortunately like a middle initial wouldn't even save me here. yes but she is she's younger site. I i like to say i came. I and you know it's interesting because in in the journals world again like your name. Your pipeline is a big part of your profession. And i was at the wall street journal at the time that the wall street journal was taking her down. I mean all of those exposes on on theranos came out of the wall street journal. Or that's where a lot of them started by a really talented reporter. They're named john carey. So i've kept tabs on her. You know. I sort of watched her Climb and watched her fall and thankfully as i go into promoting my book hair. She's gone kind of quiet as she waits for her next sort of steps in her legal proceedings. So yes i like to say. I'm not that elizabeth holmes you're the original. Yes yes so. We didn't say this in your intro. But i like the book really started with so many thoughts. Which is a that you do on instagram. Where you give your thoughts on royal style. So i'm very curious what sparked your i s. Mta your first so many thoughts on instagram. And how did you know that it was like a thick also tobacco up. Left the wall street journal in twenty seventeen i had been on suffer decade. I moved from new york to california with my family. I was pregnant with my second child at the time when we moved and i was trying to launch a freelance career and going from being on staff somewhere to suddenly you know hustling being paid by the word and trying to make connections. It was a challenge. Bureau on us you know felt really sort of unfamiliar for me to to professionally. So i was. I was really out there. And i was hustling. And i was trying to make a name for myself as a freelancer and had my second son and you know all the emotions and hormones and things that go with that too. I was spending a lot of time on my phone. Because i miss new york terribly. And i missed my sort of my life. Newark but that's the beauty of social media right. You can kind of keep your foot in the conversation or your foot in the door and your voice in the conversation and Spending time on instagram. And i've always looked instagram. I admire people who can do creative things on social media who can tell stories and build audiences and i had always had an interest in the royal family. I got married in two thousand eleven. That was the senior kate and we'll got married a sort of smitten with their. You know fairy tale For her to put cliche out there but you know commoner finding her prints. I thought it was all very exciting. Inside always kept hop on them. But nobody in my actual friend circle shared. Certainly my level of enthusiasm indulged it in some ways. They weren't perhaps as interested as i was. And so what. I found on instagram. Was that there was a community of people who wanna talk about the royal family. That's the best thing right about instagram. You can find her people interest and so when they in the leyton two thousand seventeen. I saw picture of willin. Kate their holiday card portrait pop up in my feed and i thought to myself. I have so many thoughts about this and so i literally screen shot at it. I put so many across the bottom. I posted to instagram. And then i reposted it. A second time with a bunch of text bubbles with my sort of commentaries sprinkled throughout not particularly pretty or all that readable even But i posted it. And i realized that i had i had found. My people had find people who wanted to talk about it. My dad's kind of blew up. I had never really deemed much instagram before. And there are all these people that wanna talk about the royal family and so like. Oh yes. let's do this. And so harry and meghan released their engagement portraits. A couple of days later and i did the same thing. I got the same response. And i was just thrilled to find this. This group of people this community on that wanna talk about the royal family. That said so. I kept going. I kept screenshot. In and adding my commentary. And i wanted to connect with these people and what i found. I could add to the conversation. Was that decade that. I had spent at the journal of understanding style reporting of being able to translate the language of close to connect the dots and sit their choices and their style. And say what it might mean and you know the royal space online. There are tons of dedicated fan accounts that cover every single. Move the of these women and they're very glamorous lives but what i wanted to do is find my own way in my own way into the conversation and by sort of dissecting their style by trying to understand what they were trying to say through their clothes that was sort of my niece and i latched onto it now. That what you just said is really interesting. I think both of us talk to us a little bit about how you see the royals using fashion to send a message because that was something i had never i i am just like maybe i'm like i'm like the one person i know doesn't pay attention to pop culture. The royals everything. And when i started following you i was just fascinated by this. This whole idea like it's almost like a secret code. Yes and i think. That's what makes royal fashion so interesting. Don't get me wrong. I love a great red carpet. I love looking at the met. Gala those those fanciful costumes. Come down the red carpet. But what the royal women have to do what they how they use their clothes. I think is really sort of singular in its power so these women kate and meghan specifically they don't tend to give big revealing interviews. They don't give deeply personal speeches. They don't do a lot of talking traditionally in the royal family. They are there to appear on behalf of her majesty rate a to service the crown and so they step out all the time and those appearances get a tremendous amount of attention. Pictures go around the globe and seconds. I see them on my instrument. Feed him people see them everywhere and they know that and they use that because before we see what caused they are supporting what event they are attending just human nature. You see what they're wearing right. You're drawn to their clothes and there's something really exciting about royal style right. If that princess that disney princess dream that so many of us were raised on and kate and megan. No they get this attention and very smartly. They use it to their advantage. And i think that identifying what they're trying to do with their clothing by picking designer. That's a small brand that they're supporting and suddenly it's a big boost from. They're wearing or wearing a color on tour that matches the country's flag of the country that they're visiting by putting that extra thought into it and by recognizing that it's a way of sort of honoring the effort that they're putting into it because they are using their close to further their duties. And it's just it's really smart and it speaks to how much close can do how much power there is fashion. Let's take a quick at break. So you know how i know that i'm an adult because i am about to tell you why sox are the perfect holiday gift and i would hundred percent believe it so we are so excited about today's sponsor it's mambas and they make the most comfortable socks ever. They are the best socks like. I can't believe how passionately i feel about me to walk. I feel like such a nerd but they have literally re-thought detail of the socks. We wear to make them more comfortable. These are my favorite socks. They're so cozy. They feel like walking on a cloud. My favorites personally are the no show for workouts. But i also really have a soft spot for their compression socks. I used to keep a pair in my carry on for a long flights. But now sometimes i wear them just sitting at home they just feel really good on your legs like i feel like it's like helping with my circulation and stuff. Oh interesting i've never. I've never tried compression socks great. I'm a big fan of their sport. Socks so i use those to workout and i do also like. There are no show socks for the summer to where it with like fashion sneakers chunky seekers but i historically like stock up every fall and i get myself a few pairs in. It's gotten to the point where i've gotten rid of all my other socks because these socks are just so much better than any other sock. Yes i always ask for a nice socks for christmas. 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We have a code for you so from comfort to kindness and everything in between bama's aren't just give -able they were made to give go to bomba dot com slash. Bop today and get twenty percent off your first order. That's b. o. M. b. a. s. dot com slash b. o. p. again that's bomba's dot com slash b. o. p. Let's get back to the episode. Now how do you pick the outfits that you decide to feature so with so many thoughts. I've sort of gotten in a pattern of just whenever they step out. I you know screenshot it and try and understand and connect the dots. You know the thing about real fashion that is also finding the you never really know right like they don't talk about this stuff. Their whole motto is never complain. Never explain and so they're not gonna come out and be like. I chose this designer because she matters to me or something like that. You have to sort of do the digging yourself. So it's a little investigation aged time. And i try and keep up close to real time. i've sort of fallen off in the pandemic so sometimes it's a couple of days but i try and you know they make regular appearances. That's their job to go out and be seen or certainly even be seen on a zoom screen right now and so. I try and i try and way in whenever they appear. Now what about favorites. What would you say your favourite royal fashion moment has been so far and also. What's one that may be. Missed the mark a little bit for you. Well so i sort of step back and And think about kate and megan. I think that what they do. And what is sort of most fascinating to me is the progression rate if you beyond like a single look although there are some really fun and very beautiful book i think if you sort of see how they come into their own and the language that they're using and how sort of sophisticated they get to be so for. Kate kate from all from all my reporting was because she's not naturally into fashion. You know she's not somebody who's like super into close but i think she Very much like the queen before recognizes that. It's a big part of her duties and more recently. She has really gone more fashion forward. And i think that's really exciting to see and so she stepped out. It was a while ago now back when there are a lot more public engagements but stepped out in this very beautiful Navy polka dot dress That when she was just standing still look like a really beautiful navy. Poke address was sort of long and demurin shoes. It looked like a shirtdress that you would expect kate to wear but then when she took it step she hadn't like sewn up the slit at all and so it was this real big flash of leg and there and again it's just it's the smallest thing but it made for really exciting picture and then suddenly people are like. Oh what's happening. You know like what's that picture from kate o. Then you can see that. She's at you know i believe she was at a museum that day And you sort of learn a little bit more about their causes and so when when they recognize that there's just you just have to give just the tiniest little bit of fashion-forwardness and it makes people really excited for megan. Would say that megan's megan's capes are still some of my most favorite of her time in the royal fold because she made that sort of a signature style of horrors and she interpreted it in all kinds of different ways but they're very final engagement. A senior working royal. She wore this green caped. Amelio extended dress To the commonwealth service and it was just just like the perfect regal dramatic flair like who gets to wear a cape. it's i. I loved and curious what. Fits of meghan cates. Do you think will be seen as iconic in twenty years and it's really funny. I'm curious to get your thoughts. Because for me be iconic. Diana moments are not her most dressed up ones like i. Think of the sweater the The sweater with the sheep on it. I think of that photo of her with the bike. Shorts on mike i think of some of her more undone moments. But i'm wondering what you predict will be the iconic kate megan moments you know i will. I will echo you on diana because so. Hr h. the book looks at kate and megan. But then it sort of steps back to look at the queen diana and how they set the stage for all of this and diana did so beautifully i. She loved fashion. You can see it. She found it very empowering and she used it and really new and exciting ways especially for that time and i totally agree that some of her more dressed down moments are some of her most lasting. I mean certainly. They looked the most trendy now right to see mary on track for twenty twenty. Oh my gosh. When kim kardashian sept out in like a sweatshirt bike shorts i was like diana did it i mean she was. She was very Choose very smart about that stuff in. She knew that there was something really tantalizing about seeing a royal woman. That dress down right because we're used to seeing them. So buttoned up for kate and megan. This might sound like sort of a cop out. But i would say. Both of their wedding gowns are phenomenal in their ability to stand the test of time. Because if you look at. I mean if you're familiar at all with diana's wedding gown that massive frothy confection. You look at that and you think yes. She got married in nineteen eighty one so obvious that she was a twenty year old child of the early eighties. It's it's it it speaks to that moment in time. And certainly the chaos that was to come. But what i think is so impressive about both cates. Mcqueen gown and meghan givenchy gown. Is that those dresses in ten years and twenty years will look every bit as beautiful. They just are so classic and representative of who. They are and their roles within the monarchy. That i think about those choices and i'm like they just nailed it. Yeah now. here's a good question if you could interview kate and megan but you only got to ask one question to each them. What would you ask them. That's so tricky. I would i i think for meghan i would want to know. Gosh i think about that. I i would want to nil famous interview that they did last fall where someone asked. How are you doing. And she said thanks. You know. people don't really ask that of me. I would want to know that. For meghan. I would say like. How are you doing like because of all that they went through and all that they've changed i would want to know how are you doing. And and what are you hopeful about. You know me because they are working so hard right now on sort of laying the groundwork for this next chapter. They're working. they're talking a lot about you. Know positive conversations online and how to improve that discourses things like that. And i would really wanna know from meghan how that's going. You know i mean it. It looks to me like they've really hit their stride. But you never know right unless you ask someone for kate. There's so much about kate that you're like. What are you thinking. What does it feel like to be her. I mean she is so and restrained at every. Turn her public appearances. You know mean she has been doing this for so long. And i think she's reached a new comfort level She's certainly hit her stride and a number of ways but it's always kind heart no with kate. What she's thinking she doesn't give a lot In terms of her her personal thoughts another question that we got was about. Sat has has kind of been mostly about the royals. But would you ever consider expanding it beyond royals or you ever done. I feel like i've seen you do red carpets before once or twice. Yes i would i. That's sort of my dream here. Because i think more so than my interest in the royals. It's my interest in fashion. That is kind of driving all of this. And i think once you start to see the world through like the power of fashion and what fashion can do and what it can say. There's a lot that it applies to. I did I've come into the little bit uncommon harris's style on the campaign trail and like that was. It's been through thrilling to me to be able to combine that like professional past of my knowing you know what a campaign trail is like in the staging and choreography. That goes into all of this and certainly the intention -ality behind what they wear. You know where candidates were on the campaign trail and two so when i see her in her converse sneakers. It's like all these like lights. Go up you're like yes. Yes that is very purposeful. That is that is making a statement. That is showing that she is. You know of the people and that's used you know ready to work and ready to move and you know. It's such a different vibe than high heels. And so i would love to expand us not beyond that because i think anybody who dresses purposefully And with ought and is trying to say something with their clothes. I think those are my people. That's what i want to talk about. I loved kamala harris. The videos of her getting off the campaign jet like amazing yetter spent so many of them that you're just like yes like she just she also has such a great walk like i felt like she walks with like a powerful gate. That you're like. Yeah that's hard to. Max can be of windy and you know they like your haircut senior faces up but she makes it looks bad ass time hopefully even when she is wearing heels which is less frequent. Those planes steps. Like i feel like you kind of have to take him sidestep like. I don't feel like there's a really easy way to get off one of those and heels. No no. I think it's hard and i think you know she. There have not been that many female candidates on a major party ticket like this and so we can have a much bigger conversation. I think we should about whether you know why. We pay so much attention to what women wear versus what men wear. But when i see women you recognize the attention. Their wardrobes get and harnessed that news that It's really exciting to me. Do we know for a fact. Do you do kate and meghan work with stylists. Do we know who those people are. So part of what. I find really interesting about the royal family and their approach to style is that it's pretty In terms of the teams associated with it so the queen has a whole team of people that that is their job their her their. They're the people that are there to dress her. Not not actually physically. She could stress herself but they are the people who prep clothes in store close and archaic the clothes and all that but aside from her it even even with diana the the the principals as it were very hands on. They're very involved in their wardrobe. So kate has that she works closely. But it's less as stylist and more Sort of a coordinator Who hands a lot of logistics of ordering and tailoring and forming those relationships with designers meghan Especially as in her time as a senior working morale she signed herself was the sort of the line that came out of there. She obviously is very close friends with several people in the fashion world aman. I'm sure she got a lot of help and advice from them but there is sort of an authenticity to their clothing choices. Because it's not just a hollywood stylus that sane where this kind of feel very much that they are choosing some of this themselves right. I was asking. Because i imagine. An mrs purely speculative and maybe it's wrong but with kamla. I would have to imagine that you know because she has such a huge job outside of her clothes that either if she is styling thanks to make a message. It's through a stylus. Not necessarily of her own volition. Or maybe maybe she is doing this as a hobby or like a side thing. So i was wondering if the if the royal women are involved in there or if there are people behind the scenes who you know to your point are creating the designers or curing these messages for them but it looks like a great question. Because there's you know what i mean. If you're familiar with hollywood you know that. Look like stylings an art. It has profession. It is something people are very good at talked to a hollywood silas in. They're talking about you. Know a big movie in the campaign surrounding it You know if there's a chance that an actress will be up for an oscar or something like that. They will plot very intentionally to sort of build and make different moments within that. I mean this is a very. This is very thoughtful process. I would say for the royals and and politicians alike that they are perhaps more involved and they have less sources in that sense but there still is very much a team and especially on the campaign trail. There is a team of people whose job it is to help her to think of these things for her And to position her. But then you look at you. Don't mean when. Hillary clinton was running she for her three debates. She wore Ralph lauren they worked very closely. A anna winter was involved in that in those decisions to so there are always people that are are willing to help world as excited about this. Yeah what about the royal kids. So i've seen you do a couple of so many thoughts about the family photo shoots when the palace releases portrait's but will you cover their fashion as they grow into adults. You know somebody asked me. Are you just gonna keep like weighing in for like every time they step out for the rest of the time i was like you know. I don't know. I'm not sure about that The pictures that we see of the kids. Now i think are really really exciting and very intentional will and kate The way that they operate with their children. And i would say this to of meghan. And harry with archie with baby archie. They all learned a lot from the diana era and have control that message. You know that. They put out there about their kids. There used to be in royal family land. There used to be You know some really wonderful photo ops. Where the kids were sorta paraded in front of the cameras. So a young william and a young hairy and the press was much sort of present in their young lives. And you can see now With kate and well and meghan and harry that they don't do that you know that they only release very specific pictures and there's something in the in the way that they put together those pictures. Now that i find very charming because they are still doing very intentionally. They're trying to put forth an image rate. This is all branding. This this is an exercise in brand building and image building. And things like that. And so when you see a picture of prince william who is a future king Sitting on a swing with his children's of dangling around him all smiling and casual. it's very relatable portrait of a family unnecessarily a removed monarch and that again is part of the brand that they are building and part of the way that they sort of. Continue that centuries-old institution now. I consume most of my royals content through you so i feel like you're my filter so i only see these very controlled. Portrait's are paparazzi shots. New choose not to Use them to not encourage that were are. They only being shot in these like very controlled portrait settings so the fashion that i am interested in. Is there public facing appearances. Rights those those moments in especially in pre cova times highly choreographed. It is sort of like the campaign trail where there's an van staff and they go out and they scout the location and they know what the backdrop is going to be in. they pick out an outfit. That you know won't blend in or won't clash and they look at you know what other people will be wearing and they want to make the stage. It is all very staged and that effort is what i'm interested in. Okay so how. Their clothes fit into that picture there. So you'd like. You'll often see like kate wet. Kate stepped out and she'll match the logo of where ever she's attending. You know mrs sort of like makes all the colors it makes these beautiful photographs and that staging is what. I'm interested in their personal style. So like some of the best photographs of megan are just paparazzi shots where she looks fantastic. She's in distress jeans with a cool. He'll a sort of a jacket over her shoulders conveying. That is personal style. And and while i is of the you're really enjoy those photographs. I don't think it's the same level of thought and therefore sort of appropriate for the kind of dissection that i do that so interesting i i didn't realize that there was so much thought behind it and i. I'm just interested in your point of view on on kind of here. Do they do all of this stuff. And this was something. I learned as a campaign trail reporter. Either i mean there are whole teams of people are called advanced teams that go ahead and stage all this stuff and it's the same in the real world. If they go on a tour they go to every single. Stop on that tour well in advance. They take pictures planet they. Where should the cameras face which of the backdrop be where. What will the people be wearing. There's all the thought that goes into it and so it's kind of fun to think about things and and look at engagements knowing that this was all preplanned yet and trying to anticipate and make the most beautiful and powerful visuals. He can yeah. Let's take another quick break so by now you know that we are pretty obsessed with the brand night and if you don't know how it started at all started with our obsession with their famous night pillow so it is legitimately life-changing i'm not being hyperbolic here it's memory foam pillow that cradles your head and then bounces back if you move and i was pretty skeptical going into this and i didn't think i'd notice the difference because i'm already a pretty good sleeper but i was wrong i noticed a difference. Now take it from me as someone who is not a good sleeper. This pillow changed the game for me. But it's not just about comfort although that's really important to Night is actually a beauty textiles companies. So you might be scratching your head saying what are beauty. Textiles will night focuses on products that interact with your skin and your hair and their silk products have major beauty benefits so think a silk pillowcase. 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Although i actually got the pillows for both of my parents as a combo gift for my mom's birthday thursday and i got a lot of brownie points for that one. They are complete convert especially during quarantine when having cozy home and getting sleep is important investing in making my bed as comfortable as possible is definitely a part of my self care and if you're trying to shop smallest holiday i love that night is a small female owned business and i just always feel better knowing that my good people. Yes and we saved the best part for last night is extending their black friday offer for batum paper listeners. For the whole month of november. So you can take thirty percent off of all of nights. Amazing beauty sleep products and the mask with the code be. Oh p thirty at discover night dot com again. That's thirty percent off. Sitewide discover night dot com with code b. o. p. thirty for the whole month of november. Now back to the zone. What about instagram. Do you think. Instagram has change. How they're using fashion and and how they're kind of doing all this planning. Yes i think that there is an accessibility to royal photographs. Now that there was certainly not before social media popped up. Diana one of my favorite quotes in h is From a photographer and he said you know. Even if we didn't care about the engagement we would show up to see what diana was wearing and fashion was a reason for people to show up to her events and she her rise coincided very much would sort of the media explosion of celebrity coverage. And so she would have been news on her own but her fashion kept her on. The front page kept her in that coverage in that discussion and so but those those papers came out today right. You'd look for them your doorstep or you know look for your glossy weekly magazines kind of thing and you would get your fill there and now with instagram with kate. Meghan my gosh. The minute they do anything. It's all over everywhere immediately. I mean every fashion magazine covers it. Every fan account puts it up. I mean people. These photographs are just everywhere. And i think it makes the importance of their clothes. Much greater also google to some extent because you know thinking about diana like you could cut clippings and like archive her style and look at it across a period of time but like i feel like it would be harder to compare to have that comparative view of her style unless a magazine was running. Like a retrospect ever something then like plugging cates name into a search engine being like. Kate middleton twenty nineteen and seeing everything she wore. Yeah so they feel so much more familiar to us now right because i see them all the time and we feel like we kinda know them. You know even though we don't at all and so this whole relatable bent that the royal family has been on. Especially since diana's death and since cape entered the picture as a commoner. That is fairly new. Diana's day people wanted her look like a princess. They wanted that very fancy full. Sort of kiara wearing image projected and they liked to see that when they could but now we see them all the time. You know me every single thing they do from every angle and i think that's much changed our relationship at an especially as a row. Viewer you can. It's all out there. Yeah yeah yeah so before we talk more about your book. I wanna take a quick detour and talk a little bit about how the black lives matter movement and some of these conversations around racial justice have impacted the way that you cover royal styles so I know from your instagram. That you've definitely made some pivots and change the way you s mt meghan. Can you talk to us about that. Yes absolutely i would say that twenty twenty has been A tremendous opportunity for me to learn more and do a lot better to pair face set famous quote My early commentary on meghan Came from very much place of Or my company. I would sambo's cape. Megan was very much sort of based on entertaining and making it fun and quirky and a lot of it was just far too casual for my taste looking back and i was glad for a chance earlier this year to talk about that a little bit so one example. That has come up. Ally is my comments on. Megan's hair she famously wore especially a lot in those early days. What was a style that a lot of people myself included called a messy button and that was something that beauty publications would call it. Her own hairdresser described it as messy bon. I saw it. And i thought oh. That's a messy like. I know that. I know what that looks like. And what. I failed spectacularly. Do to understand the very complicated conversation around black women and their hair and what's what a messy bun what that term will be into them and again my intent was not ever to offend but it does not change the impact and i did offend a lot of people and so earlier this year. You know in light of the much bigger important conversation about black lives matter and following the death of george floyd. I sort of wanted to come forward and acknowledge all of that. Because it's on okay. What i did. What i did was wrong and i was glad to be able to say that and to learn and to apologize and do better going forward and so i have said you know not. It was inappropriate for me as a white woman to comment on megan's hair and i apologize for that. It's as not change. Certainly impact or the offense that i have caused but I can sort of promise to do a lot better going forward. And so for example in the book you will not see the term messy one. I mean that that you know a lot of people want to explore that further with me. I'm glad to be able to do that to to sort of learn in public the way that i have on instagram And people say well you know her silas called messy bonn. It doesn't matter. It's an offensive term and i shouldn't have used it and so i'm very glad for the chance to do better here and i think Doing it like i said in public on. Instagram has been a real learning experience. And the best part of it is that i think i've helped other especially white women learn along with me. It's hard to learn publicly like as you go. I mean it's it's the learning process has been really intense. I know for me this year. And it's hard when you also have all these people watching you as you're learning so i think you've just handled it tremendously. Well thank you. i think. I'm i'm at my core deeply ashamed to for the ways in which i have upset people and offended people and the stuff that i said not knowing better when i definitely should have known better and i think being a person on the internet can be a challenge and I'm grateful to a lot of my followers who helped me learn and helped me understand Certainly an Have sort of stuck with me through this now. What about the term team. Both so for a long time. You had used that you've moved away from that. Can we talk about that shift to. Yes absolutely so in the fall of twenty eighteen when so many thoughts really got some momentum. It was during the tour Harry megan took a really long tour down to australia and new zealand feels like ten years ago. It was so long as another anymore. Yeah i don't even know. I don't even know and this like this narrative that was emerging especially in the fan accounts. Space where you were team kate or team meghan and it was driving me nuts. I was like there is so much negativity and it wasn't just about supporting the person that you chose your team to be on. It was about like defend in them and it got really ugly. And i think a lot of people i mean i think more people familiar now because of how much meghan spoke out about it but the royal fan space was getting really negative. It was getting really ugly. It was people putting each other against pitting the duchesses against each other and and that is such a tired narrative. Right let them media and you know the internet wolf and try and push you know pit to women against each other and so i. I came out and said you do not have to choose. You can be team both and it was sort of a naive thing like clumsy term but it was just my my point was just to say. Listen you can follow and love megan. You can follow in love kate. you don't have to love them equally or loved them the same but like you don't have to be against the other one just team both here and i wanted to make it very clear. The my account was a space about both kate and again and I think that was an important thing to sort of state early on what i did not realize and what i learned over the summer was that it became an offensive term. Some people and it became somebody acquainted it to all lives matter. You know in the conversation around black lives matter and that was horrific to me. Because i would never ever intend for it to be construed as such and so although it meant a lot to a lot of people because a lot of people had sort of reached out to me and said how much appreciated this idea that you don't have to choose a side that you don't have to you know. Pick an extreme. I just thought. I'm going to retire this term. I you know the the philosophy that like. I believe in both of these women and what they can accomplish their powers as individuals that very much still stands but there is no need or place on my account to use a term that even a few people found offensive. I really admire you. You pivoting so publicly in a and b being willing to address these things with us. It's so interesting to hear your your point of view and kind of like how the smmt platform has evolved. Yeah i mean. It's i'd be lying if i said when i started all this that i knew i would get into any of this. You know that that the royal world would turn so negative that the racism towards megan would be so awful even just discussing. Racism is something that i am not particularly used to do in. And what i have realized is as somebody and twenty twenty with the platform. It is a tremendous privilege for me to be able to talk about this stuff and share with my followers. So i occasionally hear from people that are like. Let's just stick to the fashion and it's like no. That's not what i'm here to do and either a lot of other places you can find that. Yeah so let's talk about at a different pivot that you made bringing absentee from online into a book. So what made you decide to do that. So obviously eminent writer and a book is a dream. And i think every writer probably would say they had a book in them somewhere and i had always wondered you know. Could i write a book. What her book about And with mt it came up a couple of times before. I actually agreed to do this project and it was the idea of. How could i take what i do on instagram. And make it worthy of a book. Because what i do on instagram. I do sort of in. It's meant to be consumed in that form. I take a picture. I put a bunch of text bubbles on it. It's a real quick dish. She kind of like tap through kind of thing and when you're meaning people on their phone it's a different experience than when you're sitting down to read a book right and i kept thinking like what could i do. And then it occurred to me that i could take what i was doing on instagram and expand. Its an element. So the book looks not only a kate and meghan but at the queen and diana and understanding sort of the context and the ways in which they set the stage for royal style and how their choices in strategies have informed. What we see. Kate and megan today and it was a thrilling. I mean it was just a dream come true of product. It was just so exciting to be able to look deeper into royal fashion to understand it more and then to put together a beautiful book so it's not just a book of words and though there are a lot of words in there but it's a book of pictures to their are three hundred seventy photographs. That i selected with my photo editor tight sort of tell their stories not just their biographies but tell their sort of sartorial biographies their their story through their clothes. This might sound silly. But i'm very excited because of my eyesight to be able to see these in a bigger way like it's it gets bigger than trade paperback like it's almost like a coffee table style book. It's somewhere in between that size wise. So you get like big photos instead of like me holding my thumbed out. I'm like trying to see on instagram. Yeah the the size. I really wanted really wanted it to carry the top of a coffee table stack. Like if it's it's not it's not a coffee table book. That's like big and You know weighty and cumbersome but it would sit sort of on the top so it'd be pretty enough for that but then also my dream was pre cova that you could put it in your in your handbag and read it on the subway. Kinda thing i was like someday i'll see somebody reading my book on the subway. So i wanted to be portable and then i wanted it to be self -able that's a word but the you could hold it up and take a picture with it too so we're trying to do a lot I hope when people see the book that they sort of recognize. I mean i think you can when you're flipping through the the sort of thought that went into the visuals of it and how it packs a real punch their earlier reviews. I read from people are like. I can't believe how much is in here. Which is It's really really satisfying for me to hear. Now tell us a little bit about your writing routine. What was that like. Oh my gosh Knock grade. I know that i should be giving. I know what we saw in san francisco. You were like on deadline. You just had a baby. And you're like somehow be superwoman. Do you do it all. Well i did this. And i don't think i should. I don't think i should. I would ever recommended sort of embarrassed to talk about. But i signed this book day when i was seven months pregnant It was sort of my last window of time that i could fly from california to new york and so i flew and took some meetings and Worked with our mutual friend. Kate child's Nca he's not and we sold this book. And i was like yes. I'm pregnant with my third child. My first daughter. This is so empowering. I'm leading into this. And and then the book went to auction which was really exciting and we had originally push it at or pitched it as a may twenty twenty one like spring twenty twenty one book and publisher that Goes coming with the highest bid. Said felt strongly that needs to be fall. Twenty twenty and there were like that means. You're going to have to file this book by the end of the year. And i was like no problem. I could do this and my god child and i was like in august and i was like yes no problem i can do this so this may that's where i had my third child in august. I got to work really in september. I was. I was grateful that the way that the money was structured was that i had built in a budget for researchers. I had people that were helping me. And so by the time i they were putting together these very meaty briefs on it and by the time i dove in in september i was like okay here and then september through the end of the year was just a blur. I mean writing. A book is a really ambitious thing. I think for any writer. Most magazine pieces that i write are like two thousand words. This is like sixty thousand words mean. It's just in a whole 'nother level In terms of project size that. I didn't totally know and appreciate And then as i was doing it did not file it by the end of the air as i was doing into january as when meghan and harry announced that they were leaving and that through a whole. Twist in this. I was grateful though. I mean it's news it's newsy in an. It's obviously all in the book but it was a lot of work and then the pandemic said n rate as we are going through the designs and So yeah it's it was I don't think anybody should ever do what i've done but I'm glad to be on the other side of it. Oh i bet what about choosing the photos for the buck. I'm how did you go about selecting different pictures that you chose to feature so photos are words girl. This photos were a whole new thing for me Embroil photos specifically are very expensive and controlled rate These are beautiful. Photographs from famous photographers. And so it took a lot of negotiating With photo agencies and these were all these are all my money being spent on the photographs. That was another way that that's structured. Yeah knowing about photography rights. I'm like how did you get all these. That's your hands. I spent a lot of money. I mean it's a lot of money on photographs and even my publisher was like you don't really have to put that many photographs and i was like no no i do and i did. I've never spent so much money on anything in my life So these photographs. I care deeply about. But i just felt really strongly that i wanted so the way the book is set up. It's you know one section on each woman and then years in between you know they're sort of intertwined their story so i see a lot of similarities between kate and the queen and then diana meghan and you can kind of tell flipping through that you know where they kind of go but i wanted this to be a really visually satisfying book. And so i worked with a good friend of mine was my photo editor and we worked together and there. They're all kinds of mood. Boards and. I made a scrapbook and i was trying. I'd never done this before. And so i don't know if i did it the right way or not. This was sort of the system. I came up with and i put i tried to you know look at the visual flow so you as you go from page to page that it makes sense not jarring but it also goes sort of chronologically for each woman. It was a tall order but it was such a dream because i spent thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars on getty photographs but now everybody gets to enjoy all in the book. What was the hardest part of the book to write. So i went through so i the way that i also structured as as i. I was going to write one at a time. I've been immersed myself in a woman at a time and diana period although it was the most fascinating and still be the most interesting to me and the whole book because she was she was fairly new to me. It was very hard Just because when she went through you know i mean it's very tragic story and the ways in which She was treated and what happened to her. I i i was in rural funk. I was doing that research and reporting and my husband kept saying. Are you okay and it was like it's just it was just so Sort of heartbroken to to understand the full extent of diana story That was really challenging. Yeah i'm very curious coming from a reporting background different side of the publishing industry and what was the biggest surprise about book publishing you. I'll lot of it. All of it. I you i grew up as reporter at the wall street journal where you do not just write a story that goes on the paper you write a story and an editor looks at it and another editor looks at it in another editor looks at it in another intermediates called stadium editing. You kind of work your way up the chain there and i'm grateful for that because it made me a much stronger writer from the outset And it made me very deliberate in my process Book grading is sort of more all on. You mean. i part of. Why struggled when i left the journal is because i i left a newsroom. I left talented colleagues surrounding me. You know where you could spin around and be like i'm stuck at this point like what should i you know. How should i right through this or something like that and writing a book. You are in your own silo the whole time you know and i had wonderful at whole wonderful team of people actually brought in a freelance editor named katie atoms I worked with my agent. Kate was one k. Trials was wonderful and fled the mouth. But she's wonderful But like it's you this. Is your your work you know and even on the publisher side. I handed it over. There was very little that they made suggestions and very top line sort of edits but a book is you is the author and that was That that that was a lot a times. But i'm grateful and proud and from the other side i i say. Hey we're gonna wind down with two very hard hitting questions. What do you miss most about new york. I gotta miss everything. I have to say like. We moved to california and was the right call for my family. At this time. you know. My husband had great promotion on the table. I was i had left the era. I was looking to leave the journal. I had sort of done what i wanted to do there. And so is this adventure for us. And while i love california. There's a lot to love about it. It is not new york. And i think having lived in new york for a decade just skits in your blood just stays in you and i I miss a terribly. And i hope that someday we find our way if not back to the city back to the vicinity of it because there's just an energy there's an energy in you're surrounded by a very. I was my friend who was a very eclectic group of professional and accomplished women. Yeah that was exciting to me. And i live in where i live in california. I live in silicon valley and it's very very tech oriented so i have yet to find a royal enthusiasts in my my friend groups out here that's dates not filled with wonderful people. I just find that in new york. I was really energized by by just being there. Yeah now our last question for you. What is the best place to get. Plush headbands like these become a style signature of yours. Yeah you have headphones on right now. But when i picture you in my head. You're wearing a hat pan. Can i say that headbands have bins and then that i have embraced and that has surprised even me because i think when kate i war hers her first hat band is what i called it Like a headband. That wanted to be a hat. Yeah i was like oh my gosh no like is that like that is so weird looking. You can my essence. That was very as very surprised by it. But this is one of those things that it's like. Don't knock it till you try it. 'cause you put it on and it's kind of like oh that feels fun. I mean it's just it's it is so funny it is i think dress up a like otherwise like really boring outfit. Multitude of like second day harrison have happened in a bind. Like i mean. We're not doing second day over here. It's like two weeks No i mean not two weeks late forties totally or two weeks in my case craze. Yeah just sort of put on a hat and then it draws all that attention there. I would say that. The headband world. There are a lot of very fancy and Sort of more expensive options. But some of the best ones. I found on amazon. I mean i am not so say amazon but You can experiment with bands there and find them in just about any color and any heights. you know. I felt like i can actually pull off the ones with the not at the top okay. I've tried a couple of those. Like i prefer a sort of have them right here. I prefer like more padded sort of round padding and And you can. You can find any color. And i find the barrier to entry quite low because there's also cheap and yeah it's just play round. I mean if you haven't tried one just give it a try. I'm adding on a sub question. How many bands do you think you own too. Many at this point because only somebody to help me understand how to store them. Because i would prefer to have a rack where i can hang them over her. Tyler mccall from fashion. Isa i think she has something like that where you can like a bar for them ex. Okay but my kids. When i had them displayed out my kids are one three and five and think they're the most fun thing to grab and put on and run around and so i score them away now But i need. I would say easily dozen or more. Yeah yeah honestly not as bad as soon as bad. Yeah oh okay. That's respectable respectable amount. It's not about okay weight so you've been an amazing gas and so you've earned what we call over here. Desperation minute tell the people who are listening what they can do for you where they can follow you name a yearbook the whole thing so you can find me on instagram at e homes Where i took royals and all kinds of other things at this point. I'm very interested in the upcoming election and You know racial quality and talking about things like that is a really important to me. And then you know sprinkle and some of my kids stuff in there But if you're going to do one thing it would be pleased by my book The best way to do it is to call up your local independent bookstore. Independent bookstores need our love. Right now. There is They are struggling. There's certain no choice about it. And if you call up and say. Hey i'm interested in this book. Hr h which by the way stands for her royal highness Then it's on their radar on yours. You give them a sale. And that's the best That's the best way to do it. But thank you guys so much. This was really fun. Thank you for coming on. We had such a great conversation. I i loved learning more about the royals. Yeah good well. Welcome to my world and had been so. Let's talk about some end matter grace. Yes let's do it. What are you living on instagram. Right now oh so. I am loving danny pellegrino. So he has a podcast called everything iconic pop culture podcast and he talks a lot about like a bravo type. Tv shows so. I've heard he's so funny. I just don't watch a lot of these shows however a listener alerted me that on his instagram. He watches reviews hallmark movies and then he saves some to his highlights. And so it's like snarky. Funny reviews of jared free. Does that too. I don't know if he still does he used to he's chick flicks but i've never somber sexiness city. Yeah i love those. Yeah so i watched. He has been saved to his highlights. And i watched a bunch of them and i was like cackling so. I'm a very big fan of his hallmark. movie reviews. yeah what about you. What are you obsessed with on instagram. It's a home account and it's called three birds renovations and we. You and i were just talking about this before I feel like everyone we know is buying property and like doing these massive renovations and i'm having so much fomo because like that's definitely something i want to do in the next year year and a half but like that comes with some like big life decisions of like where i want to live and like all that so i am living vicariously through others and this is three australian women and they have incredible taste and they it just like really beautiful decoration and renovation products but renovation projects and i just like love their aesthetic. I think it's really really beautiful on. There's like this bed. Looks like lady fingers. There's a lot of like that. Cinnamon pecan color like blush but not in. The kind of overdone millennial pink way. It's just like really simple and beautiful. I love what they're doing. I mean i like anything. That is beautiful homes. Yes so i could definitely get on board with us. It feels like What's her name. Sarah sherman She's in la. Yes i know who you're talking about but yeah this is highly. Is sarah samuel. I don't know something like that. Manny moore's house so if you look up manny more decorative you can find her. Yeah this is a very nice soothing vibe. It's really yeah. It's really soothing to look at what are you obsessed with. That's not instagram. Slave to the first is brand. It's a jewelry brand. I love all of her work. I think you might like it too. It's called alice. Nicolini c. i. c. o. l. and i on Day and it's just really colorful jewelry. It's like a mix of precious stones and metals but also she the ads in this really. Cool enamelware. I ended up buying a pair of emerald stud earrings from her. There like a little bag at but they are encased in like a gold but then there's enamel green colored polka dots over the gold. Ooh and i just think everything she does is really creative in interesting and you can read all about her background on her website. She really draws a lot from indian culture and all the bright colors and like mix matched patterns. But it's just amazing that she works all that into jewelry. Yeah this is very fun. I can't just your earrings. And the other thing i have an obsession with. I started today. Because i've like i literally have turned into this weird news. Obsessed zombie that just stares at the tv and my aunt was like i think you need a break if we have a little family group tax. And she's i think you need a break you need to watch the show. It's very it's very good. It's show stars nicole. Kidman and hugh grant. It's called the undoing. It's on hbo. Oh my god you guys. It's so good. It is the murder show that i need right now. Nicole kidman and hugh grant are married. She's a therapist and he is a doctor and a one of the moms at their son's school is murdered and then their whole lives start to unravel. And i don't want to spoil anything but it's takes place in new york so it's making me like a little nostalgic for the city the way that it was like even just seeing nicole kidman like walking down the street on a crowded street. Not wearing a mask. I'm just like whole olden days are like there's a lot of stuff shot by the park. It just makes me miss the city but it's also murdering a and the sad thing is. There's only two episodes outright now when this goes live they'll be a third but i'm a huge fan a huge fan. And you know we were just talking about tv. Shows like well besides love life. I haven't really liked anything. Newly so found i found show. There's only six episodes total. Is it a mini series or is it our season i. I'm not sure. I think it's based on a liane moriarty. I could be wrong. And so i don't know if like big little lies will get extended. We'll see interesting. Okay yeah what about you. Oh this is something i gave you. Notice oh i didn't give it to you know. Oh you told me that you're going to then you didn't like totally. I lied to you. So i- grace is responsible for this indirectly. Because she is recommended. This to me. About eight zillion times. And i've just not listened as your. It's your ideal mascara it is so i am obsessed with the iliad mascara and i bought it. During the sephora sale. I did a huge stock up. Because i was out of a bunch of stuff so i got the ilya mascara and had very low expectations. But i was like i need mascara and grace's than saying this for so long that will try it and then if i don't like it i'll go back to what i usually use and i it. Has the plastic comb. Brush that i love. I prefer it. There's this one bobby brown mascara that got discontinued. That is like my holy grail. And i'm just constantly trying to find out and this brush is a little different but it's close. Yeah so anyway. I put it on. And the reason that i haven't tried it up until now is because my experience with natural mascara has them stuck bad so i was expecting it to be very inferior to a non natural mascara. I put it on. And i just put on one i and rachel was over and she was like in my living room like doing work and i went out and i was like look at this and i had it on one night and she was like great you put mascara like good for you and i was like i didn't just put on mascara i put on the mascara and she was like why story anybody will naturally scare us. Get a really bad rap. I know like my experience has always been bad and then put it on. I really liked the way that it went on. I liked the look of it. It is a very dark massacre. It's not as much daytime mascara. As i had thought it would be. Yeah i was associate natural. Musk ariza's leo's can be really subtle. Exactly it isn't. It's like pretty dramatic even still after i put it on. I liked it. I was prepared to dislike it at any moment where i was like. Oh it's gonna like flake or a rub off and it didn't it. Were super well. So i'm a. I'm a huge proponent of of this if you're also skeptical of natural mascara. Because i was going into this assuming i mean the good thing about sports you can return anything. Yeah so i was like. Yeah i'm finally going to do it but that i'm gonna probably not like it. Yeah and surprise surprise. It's good. I've been telling you this for a while now. I feel very validated. I know yeah. What about reading. Oh i have good reading to recommend. So i finished anxious. People by frederick bachmann and that's the same author as a man called ov-. I'm very curious for your visa because i have that in my to read pile and i don't a heap feeling so i started it last and i talked about this and it's definitely outside my usual genre. It's a kind of like comedic police procedural about a robbery and for the first two thirds of it. I liked it. it was. it's very well written. Which is especially impressive. Because it's a translation it's like very smart like the humor in a wordplay is all very good and i was like for the first two thirds of it. I was like this is good. I don't know that would give us like a glowing review or like shove it on people are like recommend it but i don't regret it by any stretch. Okay do you think. I would like it will wait. The last third of it is phenomenal. Nominal like was sobbing. My eyes out. Not because it was sad. Just because of the sheer humanity of the book. About like this group of people. And i don't want to spoil anything but like i lost it in the last third like i cried multiple times and it was so wonderful So yeah i do think he would like it. But i mean it's hard to say like you're going to go in like the first two thirds but like it pays off okay but Oh my gosh yes. I loved it. Okay maybe i'll read that next because i started. I started reading yesterday. And i can't tell if i was just distracted or it's just not for me. I started reading the next talia. Hibbert book the Take a hint. Danny brown and i just don't like it so far. I mean i think anything that you started on election day. I know i think he gets a second chance. But i just was like i couldn't get into it. I didn't like the main character. But i'm gonna give it another try okay. We'll definitely try anxious people and let me know what you think about it. And then the other thing. That i read was on sunday night when i had very intense sunday. Scary i read in a holidays by christina. Lauren which is their new book and it is a christmas book. I'm so excited to read this one. It was so fine it is a romance but it is not quite as sexiest. Some of their others. I like they just have so much range. I'm always like so. I don't know i. How many books they put out and then also like how much i love them. I know i love them but anyway so this is kind of like a groundhog's day type thing where a girl keeps going back in time in reliving the same christmas holiday and she's at this cabin with her family and then like a group of family friends and they have all of these like very cute traditions and i loved it. I loved her. I love the love story. I loved the family story. I was just like smiling a book that makes you feel happy. Okay maybe that's what our All these things that you're saying. Maybe that's what i'll read. It was so good. I read it in one night and i just like it really took my mind off the election and so if you're stressed about anything link it just felt like it was a good warm hug book. Oh good i'm excited. Yeah it was fun but they can't write a bad book the two of them. I'm also very excited. Because we got an advance copy of their next book. Oh yes i did you know. I think we got galleys. Like they're just the galley. Whenever i get a bound galley literally kind of looks like he went to kinkos or something like it's like a public only get like a handful of those that's precious precious. But i also i always feel like miranda priestly twins will you and i we can't share but also like when she has to get the bound manuscript of harry potter and i always feel so special like that's really high the manuscript in my head where i'm like. Oh my god look at me. Yes i know so they have a new book. That's coming out in may twenty twenty one and i'm very excited for that one. To what did he rip this week. So i had. I kind of talked about this at the beginning of the episode but gesture review the two nonfiction books that i'm reading our. I'm listening to just mercy by bryan stevenson. I'm just about done with that. I cannot recommend that book. Noth- i've learned so much about the criminal justice system and like all of the horrible injustices on it's very upsetting cry listening to it but i will say i learned so much and it just really good buck and i will say the. I think we've talked about this before. But the movie is also excellent but it really focuses more on just the walter mcmillen case whereas the book dives into so many other things like i just finished the part about children that are like locked up for life because the things that they did when they were really young in that like just like breaks me the other nonfiction book. I'm reading right now. Is joyful by ingrid fatally which is recommended me by my sister. She talked about it when she came on the podcast and It's about the way the aesthetics and colors and things like abundance Ken bringing joy and happiness. Yes it does come from within but it also can be impacted by a six. I i only read like maybe a chapter every couple days because it's pretty dense. It's your typical nonfiction book. But it's so interesting and so information book that did not take me long to read was pretty things by donell brown and that was recommended to me more money than you when when katie mcgee came on the podcast. We'll i like it. Because i thought when she was pitching it i thought it sounded really good. It's so good. I think that you would like it. So this is about to women and their stories kind of collide so one of them is a con artist. Her mother was a con artist but her mother has cancer. She got like a great education at a liberal arts school and then she's working in the city as i think like antiques dealer of some sort. Then she moves back to la to help take care of her mom and starts running her own cons with her boyfriend then. Her and her boyfriend decided to move to tahoe to scam. This really rich woman the Really rich woman is called. Vanessa and she is an heiress but also an instagram influence. Our and the this author did a better job than some of the books. We've read conveying the instagram influence. Our life and it's very twisty. And i love books about like scammers and con artists and there is any murder. I i'm not going to give anything away. But it's less monetary and more just like twisty dark and i loved it. I can't recommend it enough. It's like kind of long. I think it's almost five hundred pages. But i read it in a day. Okay but that was during my like really those during my really as isocell weekend. Okay yeah and if none of those spot for you. We are reading a book that i highly highly recommend for november book club so we are reading destination wedding by dictator basu and it is about a woman who lives in new york. She's indian american and she is going to india with her family for a cousins very lavish wedding and she has a various family. Her parents are divorced and they're both traveling with new partners. And there's tons of drama at this wedding and it's very fun. It's not a romance. As i would say like a quirky family story. I definitely wouldn't put it in the romance bucket. I just think for the cover. It looks like you it does. It looks like a it. Looks like a light be treated. I remember like. I moderated this panel for random house and i save that one for last. Oh this is the latest one. Like i can read it in a day but it is the character. Development is so good and the way that she writes. Like you need a little more time with it. Like it's not something you can just like plow through in a good way. It was like a sleeper. But it's one of the best books. I all like all this summer. Yeah it was so good. And i want to be best friends with the main character. I feel like we would get along and really yeah same and she lives in williamsburg so yeah if not for her being fake. We could be friends. Yeah so if you are reading know really lonely when you start wanting to be friends with but characters. it's such a high compliment. I want to be friends with this fake person anyway. We'll be discussing it. The last wednesday of november. And we're also going to have a bonus episode with the author. Yes in the meantime if you'd like more of us or want to discuss anything. We talked about. This episode joins us on facebook group. Just about on paper on. Facebook were also on instagram. Bad on paper podcast. And i'm on instagram. At becca m freeman and romcom pods is almost over a kit. I can't figure out time math right now if next week is the last week. Or there's one more. Yeah and i'm on instagram. At grace atlit. And i have a blog. The stripe dot com where. I post monday through saturday like that. You changed it. Because i give you grief last uses a every single day because most blogs if you're lucky published monday through friday and i give you a saturday bonus post. I'm very proud of fed up.

elizabeth holmes the wall street journal kate Instagram meghan megan thirty percent elizabeth royals becca freeman grace atwood diana bryan stevenson luke bracy shits creek chodorov new york princess diana catherine the d meghan duchess Elizabeth holmes