16 Episode results for "Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge"

194: WASP-76b

Space Nuts

41:00 min | 1 year ago

194: WASP-76b

"In fifteen seconds guidance journal Chan nine ignition sequence spence nats to space Gielgud. Hello and welcome to another edition of the space nuts. Podcast my name is Andrew Dunkley your host and with me as always Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge. Hello Fred Low Andrew. How're you doing quite well? Corona virus free in my district at the moment. But I'm sure that will change the way these things running around the planet as fast as What International Space Station as fast as you say bolt okay? Yeah but despite the fact that we don't have any son of it here the moment where taking precautions that are being recommended. All all at sporting events are being put on the back burner and festivals. We had a couple of big music festivals. There were about to kick off so that been canned. And I'm sure that's just gotta be life as we know it for a little while but they've got to slow. This thing down is the way I understand it so that it doesn't overwhelm the health system. They're not going to stop it. They just got to slow it down. That's the logic behind it. All as far as I understand. So yes very disruptive to know malady but a little bit of disruption is better than a an avalanche of health. Problems would be my assessment. I guess yeah we had major disruption Because of canceled overseas travel. That's a big part of alive. Zia a lot of gigs that You know like astronomy festivals and things like that cancelled so but yes you can certainly put with that interest of coming out of the a reasonably in reasonably good shape. Everybody's everybody seems to be taking it very stoically. Yes Sifi except for those in need toilet paper exactly just about to say the same thing. I still don't understand that. Just a knee jerk reaction to something. Someone said. I heard a rumor that it was actually something that started as a prank and has just gone beserk. Which would not surprise me in the slightest. We had a trip. We'll have a trip scheduled for June. But it's starting to look less likely and portions of that trip have already been wiped out so we Kinda have to probably reschedule that as well just means we just got to stick on. Cape doing baseness absolutely. Yeah and people need to download a lot of books on a few really good ones. It's really bad to now today on space not spread. We're GONNA be talking about a planet that has a very strange psychological system and it's got nothing to do with water. In fact the the the motorcycle on this planet is something metallic which is fascinating and this one really interests me an ancient fossil from the Cretaceous period that has revealed that out days used to be much shorter quite a bit shorter in the scheme of things. So that's that's rather fascinating and we've got some audience questions. Someone asking a follow up question to us space time topic and someone else talking about looking back in time which we literally do every time we at beyond our planet. So we'll we'll tackle all those issues today. We'll start off with WASP. Nine six Bay Fred. This this planet. That's got a bit of a strange not water cycle. Yeah that's right. I think it was seven six B actually say. Who's counting did I say I thought seven six? That's what's written in front of me but my Brian Turns things upside down. Sometimes when you played by you'll find out what you said. You said ninety six people. Don't worry it's okay to which is very nice added twenty actually cut rate and you kinda add up. They've told you that was my family. Let's see if we get. Let's see if we can get this number is eight. Apparently three hundred ninety one light years away on. Take your word for it. Actually that I'll I'll do the calculation in my head because we astronomers don't really use light years in our professional work we use Something called which is quantity can measure. Econo- she measure like a year. But I think it's a three point. Three point two three or thereabouts At light years to a PASOK so what this means is that this planet three hundred ninety one light years away just over one hundred six away. Not that's on our doorstep really so that's not what we're really talking about though. This is a wasp seventy six discovered by a planet search programs ground-based rather than space-based like Kepler and test wasp. I think it's wide angle central planet. So something like that. It's a it's an installation that has small telescopes on many locations on earth so this planet was discovered some time ago. But what happened now? Is Astronomers using a very very fancy machine at the very large telescope in Chile the European Southern Observatory's facility that we here in Australia now have access to thanks to government strategic partnership with with these? Oh those telescopes four of them constituting the veil t the very large telescope? H. One eight point two meter mirror on one of them now is an instrument with a very fine name of espresso. Oh Nice one yeah espresso. The is an acronym. It's a slightly torch one. It stands for a shell spectograph for rocky exoplanet and stable spectroscopy observations. Sounds like they came up with the acronym first and then. Let's figure some words out that'll feet all Akron. Actually but no that's right. He does sound like that. Yeah and it's one of the The Group of the team of strenuous. Who is actually doing this? Work based in Switzerland of the Observer Twenty Geneve. He has he and his team have used espresso to measure not. Actually I think there's another one that they used not quite sure which one that is but anyway espresso was the was the was the principal on The the measurements made Wasp seventy-six be allowed the astronomers to look at the some of the elements they tell McCallum's in the atmosphere of the planet. So I we suspect it's probably bigger than a than a rocky planet. I'm I'm not actually sure what it sizes but it's it's kind of a a larger flight planet. I think is probably the best way to describe it but it has. The extraordinary took the extraordinary feature that there is iron vibrant atmosphere Which is being which he can measure using espresso the the instrument and it turns out that it looks as though this planet has a very hot day side on a very cold nightside on. Its those the temperature difference that suggests that you what you get as you hinted at the beginning. Iga rainshowers of ion multi in coming down. Wow that's damn hot. It is well. That's right. So the the the star is parents star is only five million kilometers away from Wasp. Seventy six eight remember. We are hundred fifty million kilometers from from the sun that would link so around one. Seventy one point eight days year and you know so. Close that its day. Side temperature is roundabout three thousand degrees Celsius. And that's more than the Actually more than the temporary which vaporizes it is not just molten. It's vapor that temperature but then it the the measurements that were made by this group of astronomers. Show the the nightside of Wasp. Seventy-six is about a thousand degrees cooler. Supposed to big temperature difference between them. It's still very very hot in escape things. I mean it's still two thousand degrees. Want the con- up pretty high but it means that you the ion would be well it would call into clouds probably I n clouds and You might get a rain of iron from that. Which is an astonishing. It's an astonishing scenario. We do know that it's possible. This happens with these failed stars known as Brown Dwarf Stars. How which there is a suggestion that you get. In rain from those as well because they've got atmospheres the so cool that actually similar temperatures to this planet this planet which is being heated by its parent star but a Brown Dwarf Star which doesn't have the normal nuclear reactions going on in its interior. It's got something called. Ut burning which gives you a low level of of He'd coming from the star once it's temperature in a similar region to what we've got here with with what seventy six P. and there is there is certainly a The idea that you might get iron rain in Brown dwarfs but I think this is probably the first time astronomers established that you could get. In rain on a planet. And he's just because of the extraordinary he till the day side contrasting with that frigid two thousand degrees Celsius on the on the nightside where you get I n. Reineck Maiden Fuller's iron snow. How about that? That's amazing? Just this suggests that they might be on revisit. Iron LIKES WELL. Yes because the If you've got an ambient temperature on the on the nightside that is enough that warm enough for to exist as a liquid. You could get liquid on flowing on the surface. The only thing is when you get to the day side as the planet turns an match not turn. It may be this distance. As suspected might well be tightly locked so one side is always facing the star near the sides always facing away from it and that means that on the nightside you might well get pools of molten iron. Otherwise it was turning what would happen will be the Steve Upright during the day because the temperature. So that's amazing stuff terrible place to go not only because of the temperature but we all hate awning. Actually I might be an exception to that rule. I find dining quite therapeutic. I do too but dental my wife. I'm not very good at it all shirts and she'll say now and I'll say why because I'll have to do them again. Then Yeah Yeah. She doesn't. That's on purpose but you know well that one for thirty years yes. She might listen to this though under. You're going to be careful what you say. That's very very true. I so this is a fascinating world. Another question that POPs up in my mind is could this be a failed binary star system that may be the case. I think have been so yes. So what you suggesting that? This is not actually planted browned war. That's just a question north suggestion but yeah if that's possible. It's a suggestion. My guess is that the there would have been enough evidence of internal nuclear activity a if the companion was at Brown dwarf rather than a planet a suspect team as Luke pretty closely. All the copy think of similar questions to what we do announced but seem pretty keen on the idea that is a planet to planet at this point in time but A fascinating one at that. Don't don't think it'd be much fun being under on Ryan. No I think you're right It's descended a little bit. On the hot side. You would literally become iron man itchy. Not Not in a good way. Well yeah that's right okay. That is wasp seventy six bay. Thank you we we say moated. You're listening to space nuts. Andrew Dunkley here with Fred Watson. Let's take a break from the show and hear a word or two from our sponsored. Grandma Ollie now. I have to say I'm a big Fan of Gramley because I've been using it for a few years now very helpful for authors but also really good for every day life. I've saved me on a few CASHMAN's particularly with spelling but also with a few issues that didn't quite make sense. It's built by linguists and language lovers and grammy's rotting APP fines. Correct hundreds of complex. Writing say you don't have to do it yourself. Would by word day-by-day you can easily copy and paste any English text into grandma's online text editor or just install grammy's free browser extension for chrome Safari Five Fox and quite a few others. Grandma'S ALGORITHMS flag potential issues in the text and suggests context specific corrections for Grammar spelling and vocabulary. Gremaldi explains the reasoning behind h correction. So you can make an informed decision about whether and how to correct an issue. Gramley helps you riot mistake free J. Male facebook twitter linked in and nearly anything else. You ride on the web for you. The listener of space nuts gramley is offering a free download of the Gramley software. So if you'd like to download Gramley today go to get gramley dot com slash space nuts again that's get Gremaldi dot com slash space nuts to download Gremaldi for free and let them know you came us all include the link in the show notes as well now back to spice nuts space nuts. Once again Fred. I would like to send sincere. Thanks to patrons we've got a few more. We I mean for five hundred patrons. We're not quite yet but it's an opportunity for you to want to put a little bit of money into the podcast voluntarily. It's not mandatory. We're not GONNA make you. We're not going to shut the door and say you can only listen if you pay but if you feel obliged to that it's wonderful and we really appreciate it and as a patron you get. Bonus material on our patriotic site. Patriot dot com slash space nuts. And you get a commercial free early edition of the space nuts podcast as well so Is also good reasons to become a patron and we're looking to build at numbers up steadily so and and it's getting so rather is fantastic. So thank you for supporting the space. Nuts podcast. It is certainly greatly appreciated. Now Fred This I love this story. I love the way. It's written to a chunk of rock that has been buried in ground for millions of years has become a new clock. This is an ancient fossil from the Cretaceous period that they talking baton it It's shown up one interesting aspect of of the world from seventy thousand seventy million years ago. I should say his gaze mathematics again that the the days were much shorter than they are now. That's that's correct. Yeah we sort of knew that Theoretically because the you know the day length is increasing as we speak which is why we have leap seconds occasionally. Yes and a lot of that is tied up with the interaction between the author. The Moon the moon the moon drifting away. He's because he's taking energy from the US rotation and slowing the rotation down so we do know. That process is ongoing. But this I absolutely agree with you. Andrea is a beautiful piece of work. Is They send. It's such a nice conclusion that stroll and yeah. I agree with you as well that it was very nicely written up and might give a shoutout to Michelle Starr. I've signed Selena to actually wrote this. You wrote the article on. This is very nicely done so what we got. Well we've got a fossil of a shallow bivalve shell. I think these things were probably quite a lot bigger than the mosques used to. Today I used to have one as a pet for it. Daiva yes in my fish tank and you fish tank. What was it called Fred? I'm not joking you go. What a prescient name to give to your Bible Guy. He'd lived under the gravel and just cleaned up all right. Yeah I wouldn't set a CACTUS. Cold plug actually belong to a friend of mine? He bequeathed it to me and plug plug lived on the kitchen windowsill many many years. Anyway I tell the story. What's the story with the Bible? They're shaped I guess a bit like as Michelle Star Star search shaped like a vase and with a vase if you're on the other side of the Pacific and but with the wider end. They've got this lead and they were. They were basically on ancient reefs. This particular species. I'm going to attempt to his name. Toria tolley. It's Sanchez that that's pretty close. I can rate and I'm pretty sure that's what a good we're all losing our faculties it's nearly the end of the year right. Not right anyway. The Cretaceous Tertiary Cretaceous Poly Gene. Apollo genyk extinction. This is the time basically when the dinosaurs were wiped out. The these this particular species was also wiped out so the now extinct. They don't exist anymore but they are of interest because we we have bivalves in the modern era. Nothing probably nothing quite as big as this but they really interesting aspect of this bivalve And you know disease coming into the the the ones we see around. Today they have a growth rate in shells which is one lap a day. I'm Da you know that's the that's the case of this research because it grows one let a day just like essentially you know in the same way tree rings put on a new ring every year but these things have one laugh a day so you can almost count the days when you when you look at the age of them and the the key thing though as that they also respond to changes in the season and so The the the well I just examples from Modern Day by a modern cloud on the one of those big clam shells in a winter time. The last night put on Daca and so with the same is true of of the sunshine. T- sunset she fossil a had Predations in it's not triggering but innings Growth so not only. Do you have a laugh for each day? If got a kind of marker for when the year changes for the seasonal changes and that is the crucial that smoking mullah's flirty. That's right so first of all the team that analyze this at the team. That did this work Basically they're actually I think the One of the Chemists who's involved with this Is at a university in Brussels in Belgium is to give them a shout as well as to whether they are but they they they used these these various les- to determine that this thing lived for about nine years. Yup which is good. So that means nine years with inflammation and they've got the daily Les- packed into that and the key thing is that they got the daily last fifty two a year with no three hundred and sixty five of them. But three hundred and seventy two. So that means the three hundred and seventy two days in a year about seventy million years ago. Which is the fossil. So how long was die? A brings it down to about twenty three and a half hours. Good soy you lose. Yeah if you do the calculation three hundred and sixty five to three hundred seventy two if you go further back. I suggesting the dice where even short and many more yes. That's right so this is a really nice snapshot of what things were like. Seventy million years ago when this fossil was laid down and you can sort of extrapolate back for the whole four point six billion years of the history but you come to a time when it looks as though the day basically was was very very short. The the best thinking on this which comes about from arguments to do with the the rotational energy of the moon system suggests that the fastest ever rotated. This was probably not long after the moon was owned was about one in four hours. Wow so linked to four hours about hate by Thea. Well that's right. It was probably after it was hit by because not sort of extrapolating from why we all now and the this interests as well from a historical point of view because there was a scientist by the name of George Darwin. I think you and I have talked about before. He's got a very famous surname because he had a very famous father. George is the son of Charles. Charles worked on the origin of species. George worked on the origin of the moon. He was in the struggling actually Cambridge an in the eighteen eighty S. I think it was. He developed this theory that very early in the history the had been spinning so fast. The debris spun off its equator. That was what for the moon but he couldn't eerie theory. Yeah but the reason why I got knocked on. The head is to do that. If I remember rightly the figures out that would have to turn once every two hours and the evidence seems to be that. It never turned that quickly. I'm not sure what that evidence is. I think it might be dynamical rather than geological but the thinking is that the could never have rotated quickly enough for that to happen. And that's why we now have the the Thea- impacted areas you just mentioned but that's not really anything to do with this work. Excuse me this this Bible study though. Is that really giving you a very nice pointer? Just a little measurement one and one period in history when we can see without any question until the day was shorter and actually shoulda nothing. That's an astonishing thing to be able to do. There's nobody around with o'clock seventy million years ago when this thing was living on its reef now in Tate and I suppose over the course of time the rotation slide the days of become. Longa so he he. We are but the other thing of course. Is that the moon is drifted away. The Moon would have been much much closer in the early history of the Earth Moon System. You know probably swung calculations on. I'm sure it's been done but I looked at it. You could work out. How far away? The Moon was seventy million years ago when this bivalve was alive. So if you study a bivalve today you'd find three hundred sixty five rings. Pre Dot is what you'd expect exactly giving daily a daily late lying down to the Ring Nora aware of of the of the show. Very Handy little creatures. Yeah this remarkable. It's just a remarkable piece of work and I think I love that stuff. That's a great story. All right and they gripe pets there. Dan Argue they themselves. I keep the place clean. I mean just like one of those robotic vacuum cleaners yes unlike unlike plug the CACTUS which did nothing except stillwater for itself dusty. I'm sorry to say that Fred did pass away after a couple of years. He is quite elderly when I got him. Okay yes the MILLIA now. That sounds like a nice little parable. You're listening to space out to Andrew directly with Fred. What's in the not bivalve burner space nuts also afraid just Thanks to a social media people the people who follow us in Youtube the people that follow us on facebook the space nuts. Podcast group that Basically talks amongst themselves on facebook. They're terrific. It's a great community. Get a lot of positive feedback about it and if you would like to join the space nuts podcast group or follow us on facebook by all means. Do you might also like to subscribe on Youtube and get numbers up. There will pasta fast and now one thousand one hundred and forty one thousand one hundred forty people but we appreciate them all. I got a really great one. He freight I've received a message from a fellow. Christopher in in Geelong Victoria said he just listened to episode one hundred ninety two plays down. Stop producing these podcasts gentleman. Also you mentioned someone requesting the link to the space not shop and how they take it. Well that was me Arrived today keep up the good work and their years? Can you say that posing with these shirts and I got a message from Hugh we have Polo shirts? Were really okay I'll I'll start getting interested in then they not on the on the On the shop yet but we will have them up very very soon. We've just got to do a redesign on the logo because we need a clear background but it's just that much closer to getting shirts and other beards and bulbs so that's fantastic now. Let's get into some questions and this one comes from. Russ add style bridge in the UK. Oh have pronounced that correctly. Hi Andrew You discussed frame dragging in the latest episode. Hypothetically if a very large masci neutron style would suddenly disappear just vanish would space time return to its normal state or returning to its normal state release energy. If so how much enough to create an explosion? I suppose I'm asking if is potential energy stored in the distortion of space. Time caused by frame dragging great a great question. Russ and I think the answer is yes. The thing is that you know okay. You've got Neutron Star it spinning its frame dragging and then it disappears now. That in itself is tricky situation. So who knows what might be the effect of that this thing disappearing but I think Ross's conjecture is correct that you would get the frame dragging an elastic phenomenon because space itself is elastic. Basle points of general relativity and so presumably it would return to its rest state and my guess is that it would indeed release energy of no idea how much or what for that might take a. Ross asks whether it will be enough to create an explosion. I suspect if it did it will be nothing. Compared with aftermath of the explosion caused by the disappearing neutrons star in itself is is a fairly thing but I think is a final sentence is really on the money I suppose Muskie if the potential energy stored in the distortion of space time caused by frame dragging and I think the answer to that is yes. Wow All right the rust you rod on the money. It didn't even cross my mind about energy storage in that. Kinda PHENOMENON GIVEN SPACE IN SPACE TIME. A liquid anything moving is an energy source expending energy creating energy energy just moves around in space just like everything else thus thus that sums it up very well that was a guess anyway. Thank you so much for the For the question. Russ I'll let's move onto the next question from Gavin in. Yes in New South Wales and I'm guessing the answer to this question might be. Yes now today to Andrew Undocked Fred Watson Asked a question before which was put in the too hard basket. But we'll have to try setup we should now he says we keep hearing that we look back in time when we look at the Sky. Also we can see so far back We can say the first galaxies being formed if that is so can we see back and look at the Milky Way being formed. I know wouldn't have a sign on it to tell us the difference from others just a thought to Cape the seventy three year old. Brian going to take it further. Could we look back six billion years? Say a seven billion year old Milky Way I don't believe so as the light should already be past. Thanks in advance Gavin in. Yes governance a great question. And you're you're right. That's looking out in. Space is equivalent to looking back in time but there are certain limitations on that so it's all about distance. It's the fact that time and distance become the same thing when you're looking into space a and that's simply because the liked from galaxies or whatever they take a saving stars and actually even the sun and moon. The light takes a finite time to reach us. The the moonlight comes to sit in about one point. Three seconds sunlight in about eight minutes the light from the nearest big galaxy and the andromeda galaxy takes about Twenty sorry two million years to get to us so the key thing is that in order to see something as it was at an earlier time. It has to be a long way away so you. That's why we can look at really really distant. Galaxies measured in tens imagining selling billions of light years and Ten eleven twelve billion light years these galaxies among the first generation of galaxies to form in the universe. We we're looking at very very distant objects very fine a long way off which is why we need things like the Hubble telescope to do that but the it's only because they have so far away that we can see them as they were that early time now the issue with the Milky Way is wearing it. We're actually part of it and so we can only see it as it is effectively now when we look at the when we look at the brought the bright stars around us the naked eye stars that we can see just by going out in the starry night especially one way. You don't have light pollution those styles within a thousand light years most of them so that the close that seeing them at the time in the past which is not that much different from today with with the Central Galaxy we see this in the constellation of Sagittarius which will be beautifully visible from Yes yes probably got reasonably dark skies located where it is North of camera the The the constellation of Sagittarius sits in the in the bulge of the of our galaxy. That's the sort of central hub of galaxies about twenty five thousand light years away. So you're looking back in time about twenty five thousand years but the galaxy that we can see Is Far enough away that we see appreciably back in time we don't see it evolving just because part of it so it's time and distance that related and you can't separate the time from the distance which was really the the number of Gavin's question keep up the good work gabbing. I'm nola about keeping ancient brains going because I try and do that myself too. That's why we started the space. And that's podcast to keep Fred's Brian going. Is that what it was? It was despite on your nothing to do with it nothing. Although Gavin rises that very interesting situation where there are probably things that have happened in the universe that we will say on earth but maybe not for a long long time because the because of the the the time that light takes to travel and the distances things are away from us so we could. We could write. We'll have several thousand music. That could have been something. That's happened that we haven't seen yet because it hasn't reached us in terms of the light. That's true exactly and becomes is true as well. The you know that might be distant galaxies that had a an expert and outburst from their supermassive black hole or something like that But that particular galaxy the the light from its output. It's outbursts went pasta years ago ten thousand years ago and so we missed it. The the reason why we can learn so much about the evolution of galaxies unsee these occasional outbursts the effective outbursts is because there are so many galaxies and they're all different distances so you've got a huge number to choose from and it's just finding the ones that show the phenomena that the one that phenomenon is it's actually it's light is getting to right now because of the distance of the galaxy. It's because it is because we've got lots of galaxies to choose from that we can learn such a lot of them. Yeah I suppose when you see multiple events that are similar you know that that's a common thing but one wonders if there is some unique event that we've never witnessed before that may or may not appear ask at some stage. Yeah I mean it. You know what you're saying. He's right because there are very rare events which might not be quite as rare as he thought they were when you start building two telescopes and what. I'm thinking of Radio Exactly what you said gravitational wives yet. We've we've only just got the technology to see these phenomena and and now we've got that technology we see that they're relatively common throughout the universe. Oh new phenomena strongness are always on the lookout for and why why? Stop it all the stuff. We can't explain now. Let's find more that we can't explain. Let's just do that. The great thing is when you do explain it. There's a Nobel prize. Yes indeed I can see on the mantelpiece behind you. I wish still plenty of time for it. The vast distances of space. Thank you for all I thank you for the question. Too much appreciated because it It lifted the lid on some interesting thinking Gavin. Serve much appreciate it and thank you. Everybody for listening Dan. The space not SHOP BITES DOT COM SLASH. Space nuts that. It said we're adding more and more of that occasionally but Everything you need is on that site including a way to get in touch with us. If you scroll down and then we've put it raw and the bottom line nobody goes. You can send dismisses the got Thank you. Fred is always terrific. Finding a really good program. This week was insightful. Questions is all not to mention the Bible Fred. This is under the always listened. Actually now sometimes I look at him and say something and he'd bury himself in the sand to Andrew. Mondays just wanted in is complaining about something so prominently the lack of food. That's probably what it is. The story the lack of toilet paper. That would be to see you. Thanks Fred Sale. At what's an astronomer at large and he's part of the dynamic duo that makes up space nuts including me. Thank you for your company will catch you again next week on another episode to this podcast available Apple podcast. Google spotify radio favorite Kaz plan. You can also demand God still. This is a quality podcast production from thoughts dot com.

Fred Fred Low Andrew Gramley Gavin Andrew Dunkley Cretaceous International Space Station Brian Gremaldi Bay Fred facebook Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge Russ Grandma Ollie George Darwin Chan Zia Akron
Astronomers vs Starlink

Space Nuts | Astronomy, Space and Science News

48:11 min | 11 months ago

Astronomers vs Starlink

"The fifteen seconds guidance been journal and nine technician sequence. Spence nuts. Three To. Four five. Build, good. Hello once again. Thank you for joining us on this. The space nuts podcast episode two hundred nine. My name is Andrew Dunkley and with me as always is professor. Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge afraid. Lure Andrew, how're you doing? I'm quite well sir. How are you quite well to? Laura Sims, doesn't it and so we can? Go something much more to say. But we carry on regardless and there's plenty to talk about again this week. Including an update on the styling satellite program. A planet discovered by the University of southern Queensland but it's more about how they did it than the discovery itself. That's interesting, and we get a full up a story that seems to be doing the rounds collision between two Black Hulls that looks to have created an explosion of light. That sounds rather spectacular. Will also tackle some audience questions about except planets and this. This one fascinates me. I hope you've done your homework. Quack, matter and stars. I. Thought. That was the stuff of myth, but we'll find out but that's all coming up. We'll start off. Fred with a look at the styling. Satellite Program is an update day. This is I think it is the certainly the tenth launch off starring satellites, which takes the total up to something like six hundred sounds delights in orbit of course. This is the issue that is got astronomers. Hot under under the color all over the world, both professional and amateur, because of the amount of light these spacecraft. Reflect back from the sun and. SPACEX have come to the party on this they have. been very concerned that that's the case, and so they looked town to mitigate this and I think I'm right in saying that this the whole trench of an a believe it was fifty seven. Spacecraft will launch with probably some other payloads in as well as a fifty seven of the styling centralize, but this whole trench of them now employ uses what's. What SPACEX is calling well. The cooler satellites visor sat because they'd go to visor assum visor. To Stop, the direct line of the sun illuminated the antennas of the spacecraft and hence. Causing, a bright reflections or causing pollution for astronomers trying to see this. These apparently are made of a of a foam material. A DARK Foam like material that. Has No effect on the radio signals that are being transmitted, but will basically. You know prevent the. Certainly reduced the amount of light that comes from each space craft, as it reflects sunlight, so their effect is yet to be seen. We might expect to see some observations of this trench of fifty seven spacecraft going across. Across the sky with advisors, and it'll be great if nobody sees anything. So we're. Seeing, isn't it? Because in the past people have photograph, these lines of lights in the sky and we've had a few amateur astronomers messages to that. They've had issue with satellites while trying to do. Asteroid Photography and if indeed they have managed to come up with a solution for that and we did talk about that I think last time few weeks ago that they were considering these it will be just a fantastic effort and and and that that's got to be a positive thing a very much, so yeah, so we'll. We'll wait to see what the verdict is as it's a good story done. Suppose, we'll. We'll now in the next little while one take long shouldn't do. Probably before this before this episode of space. Wise, but anyway long long does it take for them to deploy fifty seven satellites It's it's a pretty rapid process and you know what has. Has. Almost alarm people in the past when they went to of what was going on here. He's a stream of up to sixty spacecraft in a line across the sky. Very, very interesting stuff. Yes, that's what I'm saying photos. Often it does sort of catch you off guard and I've seen a few posts where people have said what is it? What is it? Can someone told me and and others in the? No, that's Iowa. That's spice ex blah blah. and. And, there is so this time. Perhaps no one will say anything. We be great if nobody sewing, yeah. Fingers crossed. all right. That's good news. Let's let's move onto this planetary discovery by the University of southern. Queensland to put. I know the stories about maybe how they did it, but do. We know much about the planet at this stage? Yeah, we do it's. It's a really interesting story. Andrew because it's a very strong Australian flavor of there is a strong exoplanet Group University of southern Queensland people most of them. I know pretty well because it worked with many of them. Before on. A observatory in. A spring in New South Wales University of southern. Queensland has. A tree to place called Mount. Kent it's DOC's guy site, which means that they'll be delighted that the SPACEX satellites have been com because it would. Defendants from that. Eight. Essentially a planet discovery. Facility Is used in tandem with necessary task satellite the transiting EXOPLANET survey satellite. Basically. University of southern Queensland provides backup facilities, and that's exactly what's happened in this particular story. Sorry, you asked me about the story. Sell the planet itself which getting to that. It is cold. A you microscopy, which means it's in the constellation of microscope microscopic. Say Making. Ea You me. Chris Copied is Latin pronunciation, or usually a you make. It sent that H-how Australian. Is that Fred? Well, is that that it? This she. Australians have a reputation for abbreviating. Michael Becomes Meek, so this is now planet meek, this planet make with actually quite right because he's a you make a you is a designated that tells you. It's variable star, but it also means Ustralia so. Does, Everything going for it so there it is. Why is this very? This is a young variable star. Why is it been trust because he has a dust? Debris disk around it, so it's this is what we call a protoplanetary disk. Our Son had one once upon a time. Solar System grew within that as they particles have dustin. The debris stuck together by this process cold accretion. Got! It it has been known to have this disc of debris, but now what has happened is a a planet has been found within within that disk, so it's young, as said only twenty to thirty million years old, compared with a four point, six billion years our solar system. and. The the the planet has been discovered by the tests spacecraft the transiting. Planet Survey Satellite. which noted, dipping the styles brightness, the planet passed in front of it. So, that's a fairly standard. That's how tests works, and how many of the exoplanets that have been discovered the moment of being found, but what then was able to happen, was that because the University of southern Queensland as this link with tests facility. The information was basically a pasta over to to the of Toowoomba US Q.. Who used that telescopes? Which is actually a? Part of a a support network called. Minerva Australia Sakarov won't be nerve is an acronym for. Is a fairly large consortium. And as I said with telescopes at Mount can't near to MBA so the US. Q. Astronomers use that telescopes, not only to check these measurements of the of the change in brightness of the of the of the star, but also to carry out what's called the doppler wobble method which you and I talked about before smell under so you use the light from the star. You can split into components. Spectrum colors not reveals this Barcode of inflammation which is imprinted by the elements in the atmosphere, the star, but by making very accurate measurements of the issue. Can you can? You can work out the motion of the Star itself as he's pulled around by the planet and so A. Are Some has. Some moves backwards and forwards slightly as as the different planets in the solar system. Move Around Principally Jupiter that does that, but the other planning to. So that is now being observed with the The mount can't telescopes and basically. It means that you you actually extract much more inflammation because he can, he can determine the mass of the off the transiting planet. You can also determine. By looking how far it dips the light of its parent star, you can also determine its size a Nike Zeus density which tells you something about its nature. This one is is a neptune. Star Neptune sized planet, unlikely to be a home for life, but nevertheless part of the giant picture of exoplanets that we are building up now it's well over four thousand been discovered, so we live in a golden age of the planet discovery, and this is just another way in which these things can be. You know that they can be characterized. Yes, indeed, so they ended up confirming with both methods, transit and noble. That's right exactly. I I know about the Doppler global effect Mr Short Pat on Saturday because of that. Nasty stuff. To Watch on the Gulf coast. Oh. Yeah, there's a lot of Doppler bobbling going on. It's terrible. It's my excuse for everything. Well, that's A. that's a discovering doing some good work up they by the end of it now. The paper that Scott in the journal Nature which is the leading. Science Journal published in the UK. The team from. Very long list of authors in this in this pipe, which also includes people from University of New South Wales. Notice Christina's names Ed courses, an old colleague of mine used to be at the of Jaunty. Henry's one of the lead people are to. Mount Thompson between the US Q., so a lot of friends and colleagues are in this large number of authors for this paper. John Johnny wouldn't be South African woody. He comes from not very far from where I grew up. He's got an accent. That's not that different from mine. Believe Okay interesting well John. I should say very much a northeast of England diminutive. Except when you get to new costliest John. because. John Demand I The. And mant map canton one of the. Mount Kenton one of the most horrible pots of strike at the dialing dance. What a hideous looking! Straight. Think you'd better explain the. UPSET PITS! It's absolutely beautiful, Rolling Hills and green valleys, and just glorious, just a beautiful part of the world, not only just over the border. Why didn't we snaffle that? When we drew up the maps, Fred live now at he. Probably Anyway. Well I am New South Wales. The state way leaving us to encompass all of Australia brought to the west destroying border. And someone decided to carve it up and that guy, Queensland, best fit I'm pretty, unimpressed to be honest. But anyway, that's the way it goes. That's awake is. You're listening to the space. Nuts podcast with Andrew, Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson. Space nuts now if you'd like to become a premium member of the space, nuts soup cost franchise were at Santa Series You can do that by visiting our website. Spice Not Stop Super, CASS TECH and yeah about it there there I their monthly plans. This is this is if you want to put something back into the podcast, which is completely optional, asked a super cast member. You get access to the back catalogue with new episode debris wake weekly new episodes exclusive bonus I. Am I content and it's one hundred percent commercial free, though if you'd like to look that up you can go to a website and and check it out The you is space. Not Start Super Cass Tech. But you can also funded. Had All these works well rump standard websites space nuts podcast dot com. And thank you to patrons we be adding some bonus material in the next week. Ozo-. Now Fred, let's move on to this story. That's certainly been hitting the headlines in many many publications, and that is the collision that's been reported between two black holes, which may have caused an explosion of light now. That a little bit more significant than a fireworks display. Yes, that's right I mean. You know this is A. Little bit like the the story we've just talked about. Excuse me. The planet discovered this is. Highly collaborative event between many different institutions, some of which are very very different in their. Style of observing. The made a discovery that as well it's a world I. It's the first time this sort of thing has been observed a pair of black holes, merging but producing a light signal so. Okay. Let's get back to basics by Kohl's merging. You basically need a gravitational wave detector and we now have working gravitational wave observatories. The Go facility in the United. States operated by the National Science Foundation the laser in. Two. Waves, observatory and European version, which is called Virgo, these instruments have been operating together for a number of years now and actually producing gravitational wave. detections most of which of from either merging black holes, all merging neutron stars, all merging black holes where the neutrons. And yes, you can characterize them. Quite accurately by looking at the the the wave pattern of the gravitational waves, as they pass through the earth, because what we're talking about here, he's. Shaking space that comes about when a when a large Massey's accelerated way way off in the depths of space, but it shakes base around it that causes waves submit like dropping a pebble in palm. The? Only bit like it, but it's a bit like that, and you can detect the ripples. Go Past and looking at the details of those ripples. These wall tells you what you're actually seeing. It is an astounding. Scientific Discipline The busy merged since we've actually been able to detect these gravitational waves, so two black holes merging don't. Cause any light. Normally because that black. What they do. is they spiral around each other? And then. Merge into a large a black hole which itself. Like two precursors, he's also black, and so you don't get a light flash until now. And there's an event is. An event which I love, the name GW nineteen zero five to one G. That tells you it's. An event gravitational wave event that occurred on the the twenty first of May Twenty nineteen so second until now to analyze the results. And get them out, but it turns out that on that day and at the time of the event. Excuse me another completely different style of telescope. Which is at the Palo Observatory near San Diego, and if I remember rightly, this is based on their Schmidt Telescope, which is effectively twin. The Schmidt Telescope. We have siding Spring Observatory here in Australia. What used to be called the phone in Schmidt? Two of them one in. One here in Australia now. The won't to me to Schmidt. So they can take up right this instrument. And I'm pretty sure talking about the right telescope. If I'm not, somebody must excuse me. this Vicki transient facility is essentially a wide field imager the looks for transient events things it. Takes place over a short length of time. He's named after Fritz Vicky who. Is actually the person who discovered matter among other things. He was a a twentieth century astronomer, sadly now no longer with us, but a character and a half according to all accounts. The Zad ethics called is Vicky transient facility actually observed a flash of light at the same point. The this gravitational wave disturbance seemed to come from until that. That gives you essentially a puzzle. You can look at the you know the shape of the gravitational wave measurements you can determine the what you're saying is not neutral, stance colliding, but two black holes colliding, but then you've got the the enigma of the fact that they produce to Flash, and so the office of the paper that has resulted from this suggests that the the two black holes themselves which. Probably quite large of order of ten times, the mass of the sound that sort of size, but they suggest these two black holes were in orbit around each other, but together were in orbit around. A supermassive black hole in other words sibling in the central. City, that's millions of times, the mass of the Sun, and and has it agreession disc around. It's got this disc of Gassin. Stars and bits of debris that it's kind of sucking in. And so the suspicion is that these two black holes which is part of the swelling massive stuff going round the big black hole. When they merged. They essentially provided an acceleration of the merging accelerates the final black coal which may have. Essentially somehow plowed. The woods plowed through the disk of gas, causing it to light up. Sounds like a complex story, but it seems to be the best that you can do. In, terms of trying to understand why to merging black holes would give you ally signal, and it's all about the environment that they're in if they're in a dense environment with. Swelling material going around a bigger supermassive black hole. Then you can create this flash blinds. And so what the oath is suggesting is that you know given what we now can detect to gravitational wave. telescopes detectors. Basically we've got a new way of centrally studying the black hole population, generally if you look for merging black holes in orbit around big events, which is what this event saves to been so. They. Very excited about this. Is One footnote in the paper, and that is is kind of a bit of a disclaimer really because. Although the conclusion of this of this paper is that that light-flare that was picked up. Vicki transient facility. Although, that ace very likely to be the result of this black hole merger. There there are other possibilities and you know you can imagine that it could have been just a chance occurrence of two things in the same direction, whichever completely independent source one of them gives a flash. The other gives the gravitational wave. Signal but nothing to do with each. I I. Be Very. Unlikely but it's always a possibility is not likely to, but yes, they they. They say they cannot completely rule out of the possibilities. Fair enough fair enough, but as we've discussed before with the gravitational wave detection capabilities, we now have early days in terms of what we're finding and how it detecting those things and the combinations of factors to create gravitational waves so. As you, said we. We've got signatures that indicate to. Emerging to neutron stars, merging or a neutron star, merging with Blackhall, but this could will be two black holes merging, Indus- class so. What else could what else could possibly happen? Exactly. So you know it's. The way whatever the whatever the calls is this is. This is. You know it's a big step forward. I think as well just to perhaps give it a little bit more credibility I think. Theoretical astronomers have of already realize that maybe such events could happen that you can get. A A black hole merger the IFS aligned Flash before the this one was detected in other words. They strong as they think outside the box, they budget all kinds of scenarios Maybe they're thinking about this beforehand. and. This is the first confirmation that I'm not quite sure that was the order in which things happen, but that's very typical of the way. Stroud works. Okay well. They might be more to learn on this. I'm sure they'll be doing a lot of analysis on that data and keeping their eyes open for. More gravitational wise and who knows what will learn from those which I. Think is what I said last time. That's that's the way it is. That's just the way it is at the moment. the IT's sort of one of the fresher areas in science and and a stormy so It's definitely at what's this spice scenario? Because this seems to be an accelerating amount of data coming out of the gravitational wave detection technology. You're listening to the space and that's podcast with me. Andrew Dunkley and of course Fred Watson. Base nuts now if you would like to send us a question and see if you can stump. Fred we'll call it. That's what we'll call the segment from now on I think. Can you stump freight You can send your questions to us the regular way by Messenger or a mile or something like that bar. Var website all you can go to website and click on the I. Am I. Link at the top of. Of the page and record your question in an audio form. We love to hear your voices. We've had some great questions from people and and know it's nice to actually hear from you literally, so you can do that at spice. Nuts podcast dot com space, and that's PODCAST DOT COM whether they can check out astronomy daily. The spice now shop bookshop, but the I link up the top. We'll give you access to the. Audio recorder, you just got to have a microphone on your device, but it'll work on a smartphone at work on tablet, and if you've got a laptop, they usually have microphones built in But if you've got a desktop with mark of unattached in on that, too, so it's pretty simple and we'd love to hear from you quite. Quite literally love to hear from you. Now Fred. Let's get to a couple of questions now. Audio questions wake, but we have one from a from Alex Putin Leo Hyper I'll have pronounced that correctly Alex. thank you question. Hi, Andrew and Fred. I have a question about exile planets. Not Accept Planets directly, and we measure the Mass and yearly bits via the wobble technique and the dipping lot technique whereby the stars lot dimmed slightly when something allegedly passes in front of it hacking. We possibly know if it's one planets mass. We're measuring Shelia stars wobble could only be linked to a Con Concentration of Mass on one side of the star. Does that even tell us how many exoplanets that style has? And if one was viewing our own solar system from Alpha Centauri using the transit technique then doesn't one nate to try and the telescope constantly at asked the best part of one hundred years. Plus. In order to recall the dips in brightness of most of our planet's parking in front of the sun, logically one must stay asks on for years from Alpha Centauri in order to catch the passing in front of Asana Nave four measure planets, mass and distance, perhaps from the Sun Is that what planet hunting telescopes do stare at the same system or patch of sky for over year? If they die, then have? Can we ever hope to discover earth like planets that I close? Close that are not close to their son's red dwarfs, and not the best candidates earth like planets Is it possible to discover planets in bigger orbits? If we haven't had time to watch vs and used to catch the second dip in brightness, anyway would love. would be great to hear your thoughts. Keep up the good work, Alex. it's a long question and I think we've already touched on in this episode. In terms of the wobble technique and the transit technique. But. He brings up some good points. How long is long enough to make way the discoveries? You hope to make exactly so what Alex says he's absolutely right. It's not a quick process. And okay. Let's imagine the scenario that he. He mentions that if you're looking. At our solar system from will said distance of Alpha Centauri. Let's say you're looking. In the direction, the all the planets would pass in front of the some. than. What what happens, is you you? You basically have to look for a long time. you, you watch how the styles brightness changes and in many of the. Planetary Systems that have been discovered. Yes, this is what we've seen. We've seen multiple dips and some of them are different debts by that main, the talking about a big a planet blocking the light of its parent star, so the light dips. Then you know he electric dips again, but it's a deeper this time. What you what you wind up doing is recording all these different. Dick's perhaps from several different planets. If it was also assisted Jupiter Saturn, the gas, the ice giants. All of them would give a different depth, and they would be on a different cadence. That's to say the different spicing in time. You need to watch our solar system for a very very long time to make those discoveries you know hundred years, plus that's right because you Jupiter's GonNa going around in twelve years In order to. To a volley us. Validates is the word I'm looking for in order to validate planet discovery I. Think you have to see it. It's like dip three times. I think that's the standard, so that's thirty six years with Jupiter. This is. This is why? Most of the planets that have been discovered so far are orbiting around Red Dwarf Stars which much less massive than our some, and so that the planet said closer in that nearer to their parents staff, so they have show two years of that makes it much easier to pick up. It's why we often see things with a with a year of just a few days. Because he can pick up this this this tip after not very much length of time in observing. and. Yes is one of the limitations so the test spacecraft which we talked about a few minutes ago I. Think if I remember. Alex Alex's right. They stare at a patch of sky. Looking for the dips in brightness, and I think with tests, it looks at each patches guy for if I remember on its twenty seven days, which is not a very long time when you're talking about things in Hobart surround around stars, but what you can then do is if you find a star that has clearly has a planet passing in front of it, so you've observed one dip then you can go to other observatories. Down, there are now dedicated to tell us coax, which will focus on just one star, a look for the change in brightness, overload period, and in fact, that's all being turned out to citizen science as So much is now could do this with their own telescopes the. Technology has come on by leaps and bounds. And okay, the just throwing in a little bit of the end. Alex Talk to the beginning of this question about the doppler wobble effect the fact that as as a planet goes around a stop, it pulls the Saas. Slightly one when the other once again if you've got multiple planets that pulling and pushing gets more complicated than so you get is what we call a radial velocity curve that's. The ashamed of the the line of sight velocity of the star over time. And with a single planet, just a regular up down curve, but if you've got more than one planet that gets really complicated, it's got little steps in jumps and bumps and things of that sort, but once again you cannot she allies those and tease out exactly what it is. You're looking at and discover multiple planets, so it's a long process is a complicated process, but it does work. Yes, I! We know it does because we've as you said Fan I've four. Such except planets, but it also indicates to me based on this hit and miss approach I suppose that four thousand planets is probably drop in the ocean in terms of what we've already areas, spice will already observed this probably for every planet. We have found if we use our solar system as an example, probably six seven more that we haven't seen. Absolutely. That's right the smaller ones. Present technical techniques for determining or discovering planets. They're not sensitive to small planet. It's more planets, hundred and fifty million years when this parent star like the Earth is. The US will be very hard to detect. Abide the techniques that we're using the moment, but over time those technologies the techniques are improving so. Yes earth like planets certainly on the agenda, but Once again it tends to be red. Dwarf styles of there will be seeing around. He's right Dwarf Stars by far the most common style, the galaxy so. That's another reason why the. Why the discovery has been? Has Been basically skewed towards those kinds of sounds. He mentioned Alpha Centauri as an observation point Val system and The process and the time it would take to fund the planets orbiting ass on. I recall I think that we have discovered. A planet or maybe more than one planet in the Alpha Centauri Region, have we? Yes, that's really yeah, and in fact I think Proxima is supposed to have an earth like planets around is not very proxy is the nearest of those styles the Alpha Centauri Stars? It's not a don't think it's a very firm observation if I remember rightly but. There is a suspicion that there's a the reserve A. Planet orbit around Proxima Centauri. One one more loose any for me. Sorry if you were an office. You see the planets of the solar system crossing in front of the Sun because you're in the wrong direction, which is why I think aside. From, a star of the distance of Alpha Centauri. You know The office until he is well away from the plane of the solar. System Oh okay. Yes, of course, but. You Never GonNa see. The Solar System's planets crossing the song from direction, but there are other directions you would see from. Yes indeed Mora Alex. thank you for your question. well asked, and hopefully we gave you an adequate answer. Here on spice now, afraid, let's move on to our next question. This one comes from John Pits Hello, from a Walloon Queensland Andrew Fred I have a double bunks for you. Or maybe it's the same question twice. they was a recent announcement of evidence that neutron stars may contain something cold crack matter in there 'cause. I hadn't heard of this before. Can you please tell me what quack matter might be I? Know it's in saw. Golf Bowls I'm guessing it's sent even more dance, matter or state of matter than that in the neutron star also in the past week it's been announced the gravitational waves from a collision between. Three solemn mass black holes in an object of two point six solar masses. They subject is heavier than neutrons. Daza supposed to be and lighter than any blackhall previously observed it could be a small blackhall hall or a Neutron Star or something else one of the possible something else. Candidates is quack star, which I suppose is made entirely of the aforementioned quark matter. How could a crack Astara differ from a neutron star? No geez brought up something very juicy and interesting and something. We certainly never talked about before John. That is quack, matter and quacks stars. So you fred. Okay so. A. Among the funded bent, the fundamental building blocks of matter until the standard model. Matter involves. Actually sixteen particles seventeen. If you include the Higgs. Boson which is the particle gives all this mess so therefore force particles. There are six towns which include things like electrons and museums. These you know basically smallest atomic particles, and then there are six clocks, and the that not together makes up the sixteen plus one particles of Subatomic matter. What I love about Kwok's is the names that they've got they. Six quarks have got different names. They're up down top bottom, charm and strange. Could, break. They're different, so they asked specifically. You know individually determined. A components of the building blocks of matter that what you and I made of you've got. A strange quark India. Doug Justice. System is probably well well in other places as well so anyway Kwok's. The components of things like protons and neutrons, and that's really the. You know the the number of the matter when it comes to two stars, so we recognize. Several states of what's called degenerate matter in in astronomy and the characterized by its. Quacks. Sorry missed the word the. Age. Quacks. Degenerate Meta. Wasn't degenerate when I was a teenage. Boys. So. Okay, what's degenerate matter is matter that's in a very unusual state, and the you know the the the example. Most of US think of a white dwarf stars. which are? In fact, that's the product of the cell. The Sun will wind up as a wine. Something with almost a massive of the song, but which is about the size of the earth. So an compressed to such density that it's only the outward pressure of the electrons, the this stopping it from collapsing to a to a another stage of density, so this is called electron degeneracy when the electrons are walks holdings, stuff apart the next stage If it's more massive than point, four times mass of the sun, then it will continue collapsing until it gets to what we call neutron degeneracy, where just the pressure of the neutrons is stopping collapsing further, and that's a neutron star so. These are. Of the Order of ten to twenty kilometers across, but once again with the massive starring them. Exactly. As a as a Sorry John was was saying sorry John. A mixed you without ex. exactly as John was saying That is that's the kind of typical picture of what we imagined to be the the most dense kind of star, and until now they have been thought not to exist more than about twice the mass of the sun the thinking has been that. If you get a neutron star with more than two solar masses of matter, and it will continue, its gravitational collapses the force of gravity that does this of course pulls it down to be a black hole. And nothing could keep. You can stop it from collapsing into that. So, what put a spanner in the works? Exactly as John says is a observations made recently, which seemed to suggest that the neutron stars which are more massive than not to Sola mass limited in particular one of a soda massive two point six, a sorry, a massive two point six solar masses. So what is it? It's somewhere between a black hole and the neutron star, or is some something else. That's where the idea of quark stars comes aim to. Pitch? because. The. Work, this has been done. Thanks John for pointing this out. In the University of Helsinki and elsewhere is. Done by a zero theoretical group that. What they are suggesting is that a neutral styles might be more complicated the we told. A. They might have a structure now. We know that already through previous work, which suggests that neutron stars in the outer layers of probably go a high proportion, hot propulsion of protocols as well You've got to have protons that somehow because they things highly magnetic neutrons magnetized. So there is the thinking that's. A neutral stone might be a bit like you know in orange with announce. ALANTHEA's is rich in it protons than a neutral a neutral coal. But the new suggests that maybe more to it than we thought. They might have a clock call at the center of a neutral style, so you've got this. Change in density from the outside to the edge and in the middle, you've got this really exotic stuff, which is kind of predicted by theory. That Kwok Matair things that are only stop from turning into a black hole by the clocks themselves, the ups, the downs, the bottoms, tops, and chums strange older might not all of them, not enough of a particle physicists to know which which is prohibited which allowed. So my bright's only about this is yeah. Great stuff people have talked about quoc sauce for long time, but this seems to be the first time that it's really come into the into the regime of something that is worth falling rather than something that is highly speculative. It's still pretty speculative, but it looks as a it's heading for the mainstream, and certainly this group in Finland think the styles this exotic state of matter. might well be a very likely outcome. There's a quotation here. By one of the lead scientist, simply work which is, there is still a small, but non zero chance the Dole. Neutron Stars are composed of nuclear matter alone. What we've been able to do however is quantify what this scenario would require. Insure! The behavior of dense nuclear matter would then need to be truly peculiar. For instance, the speed of sound would need to reach almost out of light. So this what they're saying here is this is a scenario where when you don't have the quarks why you've just got new. Trump's of what he says, is he? Get Very Peculiar outcomes so I? Think everybody is leaning towards the idea that maybe maybe we are starting to discover stops. While it's possible. We classify some stars as quack, rather than whatever they are at the moment, rather neutrons rather than massive neutron stars. That's right, yeah! fascinating interesting. NAS to open a new door on space nuts to and appreciate the question Thank you John Wasn't that. If sending constellation hundred. Break as well. It is it's. Starting to get into the. Well I suppose this is you wouldn't call it science fiction, but it's science theory but it's now starting to sort of crack into the reality sort of things in might become yeah, as you might become a mainstream. and. IF I can make some more discoveries in more. You understand more about what's going on. It's It's just one of the fascinating things about astronomy that just keeps throwing up all those curveballs that you've got to try and figure out and. More and more questions to answer that that's what elevate kept going and diller. No questions left to answer which could take a long time. Yeah, lest you. Must possibly. but anyway thanks John Appreciate the question and hope you well up in Sunny Queensland. And staying Saif Let's just about it for us for another week. Fred, thank you so much. It's a pleasure. Oh was good to stretch the brain. We'll see you. Feels quite stretched or right catch very soon, Fred Watson! At Lodge and don't forget to visit us. If you're a facebook, follow on the space nuts facebook page we have quarter following NAB. You might also like to join the space, and that's podcast group on facebook and talk to each other, because that's what the group was created for so that space nuts fans could all get together and Chit Chat about astronomy and share they re astronomical photographs and just That have come across. It's it's a great platform to keep in touch with each other. What I consider that or you can do what I do and wait till the next edition of space nuts I'll see you then. Notes To this. Available at Apple, podcast Google podcasts spotify IHEART radio and your. Plan, you can also straighten on demand God stealth. Quality podcast production from thoughts dot com.

Fred Andrew University of southern Queensl John US Professor Fred Watson Andrew Dunkley Mora Alex. Alpha Centauri Queensland SPACEX Australia Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge Black Hulls Andrew Fred Kwok Matair
Big Black Hole Announcement

Space Nuts

52:35 min | 1 year ago

Big Black Hole Announcement

"The fifteen seconds guidance journal Chan nine technician sequence spence nets three to one space bill. Good hello once again. Thank you for joining us on the Space Nets podcast episode two hundred one and thank you to all those people who sent his good wishes about achieving two hundred episodes. The three of you must've listened intently to know that it was as two hundred decide. We we do appreciate the feedback. A few people on various platforms. Santa's some NAS notes joining me as always is professor Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge. Hello Fred I under how you going good to your strident voice again. Thank you sir. Yes good to hear yours too and I hope you will still still in Oscillation assume. Yeah that's right but going well just working from home Carrying on carrying on as you do yes absolutely true and I went. We're starting to say the the rules being relaxed in New South Wales so people are starting to venture out. I think most people being very cautious but a lot of people taking advantage of the opportunity to visit family and friends on a very very limited basis and maintain social distancing et CETERA. But it looks like Whatever we've done to curtail spread of this disease has worked very well in Australia. Which is You know you got to tip you to the authorities. I now. It was a hard sale but most people have taken notice and we've with good selves down to less than a thousand active cases in the country. Now which is just fantastic. Indeed and fingers crossed. That will keep going in that direction. You know thoughts are always with people in other parts of the world where things aren't going anywhere near as well yeah. I was looking at the statistics in the United States. Today and Yeah I'm gobsmacked to be honest I don't WanNa dwell on that but G Some of those States in America really in a bad way at the moment But it's different for every country different rules. Different systems different capabilities seem to really be a factor as well but Here we are doing what we can to try and stem the todd. Now Fred we're going to talk about a quite a few exciting Situations that have arisen One of which We've only been able to talk about now. Because it's been the subject of an embargo and that's the European Southern Observatory's major announcement about blackhall. Now you and I can talk about this Because it's post embargo but this this has been sort of kept top secret wrought up to Wednesday. Not which is been Rather extraordinary and Other Fascinating Yan has to do with the ice moon of Europa which orbits Jupiter and we had a per about they twenty years ago taking Self fees of of your riper in Jupiter and everything else that sort of flights around at the twenty year old data. But now we've been able to use up-to-date technology to take another look at it and I'm guessing they've found some interesting things speaking of Europa. We've had a question from Adrian Crawford has asked a specific question about Europa. So that'll dove tile will and. Monique wants to talk about mining on the moon. The moon spending the news this week. seventy different countries. Certainly want to go back there Trouble with the Moon is nobody owns it and so this is going to turn into a scrum. Reckon so I will allow. We'll look at all those issues today on the spice knots podcast but I this very exciting announcement by the Euro European Southern Observatory about a blackhall. Which as I understand it turns out to be the nearest one to earth and it's not cemeteries I exactly. That's right so I'll say the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy. That's twenty five ish thousand light years away. I you know. We sit in the direction of the Constellation Secretaries But it's behind all the Dustin Merck out there but can be detected by radio ways which is why called Sagittarius Star. That's the name of the radio source so this is a different story altogether and it kind of has echoes Andrew. If something we were talking about probably about three or four weeks ago the idea that there might be many black holes out there which don't reveal themselves by anything other than the way they disturb the orbit of Sta's nearby they don't even Chretien disc of swelling materialists plumbing plummeting into them and causing rays and radio waves to miss it. Just quiet Perhaps the technical word black hole sitting there doing nothing but minding their own business but actually having gravitationally effect nearby stars and that is exactly. Excuse me that's exactly what this story is about. It comes from the European Southern Observatory and actually this discovery was not made with one of the John. Eight point two meter telescopes of the the elti. The very large telescope. It's actually one of the smaller ones. A two point to me to tell the scope Lucia which is one of the two main observatory sites at the European Southern Observatory runs in Chile. So strongly was using that telescope. Have been analyzing the motions of a star system which is only a thousand light years away. It's basically a galactic would And you know easy easy to see in fact. This style system can be seen with the naked eye. It's in the Southern Hemisphere Constellation of Telescope. Him The telescope. Which is so. I think it's Scientists in the Czech Republic and the Observatory. Self who've done this this work and the really nice part of the story is the came as a surprise to to the to the investigators. One of the scientists says we were totally surprised when we realized that this is the first Stella System with a black hole that can be seen with the unaided eye on nuts. Yeah that's big news. So what we go he. We've got the STA Whose NAME IS HR. Six eight one nine very elegant name really for it but It's a double style. Okay so that means do a binary system once overseeing another and this program that they scientists working on was a study of double star systems but what they were amazed to find was that the observations demonstrated that this was not just a double style. Not just a binary pag going around their common center of gravity that that is something else in the system and basically one of the two visible styles will be an object that he's not saying every forty days Naturally the second stop at a much greater distance from from this in a pair. So what you? What you've got is a year. We've got this two stars. One of which is orbiting the but the one of them is actually orbiting. Something else as well. That's the invisible so a Another of the CO authors Dietrich Mada who's at So he says the observations needed to determine the period of forty days had to be spread over several months. This was only possible. Thanks TO EASE. Those pioneering service observe escape do which absorb observations in my south on behalf of the scientists meeting. That's a mode of operation that actually many a straw is how country and Australia have used since Three years ago A strategic partner of the European Southern Observatory so not a service mode observing that if you need observations over a long period of time you go and spend two sitting in Zia in northern Chile so yet the local stuff that to do the observations for you. And that's how they said seventy brought that out so the the the the bottom line Andrew is once again. Here's a quote from one of the co-authors invisible object with a massive at least four times that of the sun which is what this had to be It can only be a black hole become anything else and so that is the smoking gun. They always this The new era the style to the black hole of this spinning around once every forty days around something four times as massive as the south has to be a black hole is the nearest and the conclusion is a really interesting one because Let me read the from the ace of a press release if Andrew Strong Have spotted only a couple of dozen black holes in our galaxy today nearly all of which strongly interact with their environment make their presence known by releasing powerful X rays but scientists estimate the over the Milky Wise lifetime many more stars collapsed into black holes as they ended their lives the discovery of a silent invisible black hole in. Hr six eight one nine provides clues about where the many hidden black holes in the Milky Way might be the must be hundreds of millions of black holes out there but we know about the only very few knowing what to look for should put in a better position to find them this. This isn't sorry. Go just to say might be the tip of a very exciting iceberg. This could be the first of many that found by this technique so this is not only the discovery of the nearest black hole to earth. It's also the discovery of a way of finding them. Because of the way we found this one is that what the side. That's exactly right. That's the facts are gone. That's a giant leap. Forward really is a giant leap forward. I mean we actually talks about something similar to this probably four or five months ago. A another similar discovery. But I think this one is the one that really clinches it that we've got this way of discovering black holes by looking closely at the way stars excuse me stars in Binary Systems actually orbit. It's a very powerful technique and I think. Unlv told me about two more over the years. Yes I surprised. They've only found a dozen or so in our immediate vicinity over the years but as we have discussed these things are very elusive but it Naseem sit. They've revealed to us away of of now. Finding them in we we may be finding them in their hundreds of thousands in into the future We also talked in the past about The size of Blackhall's I think you did allude to the size of this one but just Give us a reminder. How how big is this? Did you say Yeah full-time Semester? Of the Sung Sung and that sort of sit in the black hole sizing chart it is Andrew under member. Where you have this I. It is a standard black hole that we haven't really had a definition for them. We know the trade in the world of astronomy. We referred to the Stella mass black holes because his the same as a style. And you know you again if talked about this before we find black holes in basically two different categories stellar mass black holes. The kind of like this may be up to ten or twenty times the most of the sun a the supermassive black holes it up to ten or twenty billion times the mass of the sun so a very little in between and finding new objects in between these another of the challenges what you might call intermediate mass black holes because they must be out there and we we think that they look principally in the sentence of globular clusters those things that it probably the remnants of galaxies that have been gobbled up by bigger galaxies like the Milky Way so there is a picture building up about giving astronomers method of finding stellar mass black holes. The not active that. They're not emitting xrays because of the accretion disks that's a really powerful step forward and it comes about once again because of the scientists of spectroscopy you're looking for that Dukla. Wobble they the thing that reveals planets around stars the idea that a planet pulls star slightly backwards and forwards and reveals the presence of the planet. The diplo level technique may new since nineteen ninety five but the This is an extension of that in a way kind of doppler technique but for things much bigger than planets for black holes so it's a very powerful finding them yet we we oughta one submit a paper or a An application or whatever it is we do to whoever is in charge of naming objects and suggests that these be called standard mass black holes. We ought to do. What do we know astronomer? Who's got context might to do that? Fred yes I was. It's going to suggest that this would be the International Astronomical Union wouldn't we'd have to. Ya and they would say well very nice but we've already got the name for them. We Call Them. Stella's black holes and tell you much I think as far as spice Nazis come that standard black holes Andrew. We'll call them a standard blackhall from here on if we were to do so. That varies from country to country. This is fabulous new. So it'd be a heck of a lot more to learn and this is probably some chains dragging for a little while Finding a A standard blackhall so close to Earth. And did you say it was Observable with the naked I was that what I heard. Yeah that's right. It's a visible to the naked. I am I don't have a note to the Magnitude which is a technical term used for the brightness of Stars Eight You know probably about fifth or sixth magnitude which is roundabout the You know the limits of visibility with the naked eye maybe fifth magnitude So would be a good candidate for a fighter. Graph are yeah. They'll be many of them. But of course all it shows up in a photograph is a single point of lies Because e you don't see any of this structure the binary star trove it because that's only revealed by the fact that you can watch the way the styles move around with a spectograph Checking registered losses as we call it so you know the this stop it will be any image taken of that part of the sky with with modern digital cameras It'll be it'll be quite bright because he's a naked eye star but he won't show anything different about it To to to the casual Luca. It's only when he saw analyzing the motion of the component styles that you realize that there is something very very special jump in this. Yeah we're Eighties Josse Excite. When non remember that Raw Dan? It's a wonderful discovery show. We'll get to talk about it again real soon. You're listening to space nuts with your host Andrew Dunkley and the good professor Fred Watson space nuts once again shouting out to patrons who support Spice Nuts podcast with a few dollars a month into the kitty. We appreciate your support and we greatly encourage it too but it's not mandatory but if you would like to investigate the possibility of being a patron you can do so on the Patriot. Website Heidari on dot com slash spice nuts. And if you think that's something you'd like to do great if not. That's fine too. We not going to hold a gun to your head or Stella Mess Blackhall or anything like that Betray trae on or standard like L. Patriots dot com slash space nuts. And we would like to thank those of you. Who ARE CHIPPING IN TO TO CAPE. This podcast alive and well. We greatly appreciate your support. Now Fred let's move onto the next topic of interest in this. One is very interesting too because this dates back twenty years when Galileo was hanging around Jupiter touring the fat taking a few peaks and they did take photographs of Europa the ice moon but he we had twenty years or thereabouts and bring analyzed some of the dot because you know the photographic technology Today's much more advanced and I'm guessing while La they've come up with a little bit more detail about this amazing little world indeed that so. This is not accidental. You know it's not just people saying oh we're going to have another look those from from from. Galileo this is all about preparing for the next mission to Jupiter Jupiter moons. There is one called Europa. A clipper which I think is now approved a check that within the next few years there's another mission called juice that you could try see moons probe which I think he's also a on the still love the night that one right Rossi Moods so these missions that will give us much more detail about the moons and of course as as as well known in the relates. The question that we're going to talk about in a few minutes Europa is one of the moons of the Outer Solar System that has the structure without a rocky call liquid water ocean over the top of it and then over the top of that a solid ice crossed European is special in. The ice crust is probably one of the youngest surfaces in the entire solar system. Fates estimated to be between forty ninety million years old. Now let sounds like a long time but That for planetary surface of the surface of a worldwide Europe is very young the cratered surface of the moon for example the southern hemisphere at the move which is heavily cratered is more like three to four while more like three point. Eight to four point four point two billion years old it dates from Italian when objects were hurling through the solar system pushing into everything. What is called the light headed bombardment? So the surface of Europa is not at all in fact there is there are no discernible crisis on it. But what there are is the markings. And the the classic. A Galileo spacecraft images from nineteen ninety-eight show these basically the show a surface that is crisscrossed by Brownish markings many of them very linnea and those markings in the original images. It's not really possible to distinguish what you're saying. They just look like Brown markings now. That Brown A still to be what happens when you've got a briny liquid likely almost like seawater filtering through the ocean beneath and then being radiated by the Sun's radiation experiments done a few years ago that showed if you've if you've got water that's rich in salts and minerals anew irradiated with Algebra lies and the kind of particle bombardment we get from the CELANI tons Brown Just like these the streets so the those original images didn't really show much detail and that's why this is such a great story because these what we're talking about today is a re re analysis of those images by a team Actually at NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory led by. I think Planetary Geologists Cynthia Phillips and that is a fantastic project to bring modern computer algorithms to ban on images that we looked at and said great fantastic stuff and then put away for twenty two years and what they've done. They've shown that the terrain on euro per is not just an ice covering with a few black Brown streaks. It's gotten all variations in so The resolutions squat fine revealing things as small as a four hundred and sixty meters across Thereabouts and they are. The detail is now. I think quite staggering is on the Jet Propulsion Laboratory Website there are some of the reprocessed images and there are three different kinds of terrain that have been identified which was really recognized before and I guess the first as what's called the chaos terrain and that sort of tells it like it is It's like just lumps of solid material often colored Brown with which looks just like you've taken a liquid filled. Take a glass bowl. Fill it with ice crystals which kind of an input in the fridge. So they'll partly for he's over and then the stereo up so these these sorry ice cubes rather than ice crystals that they all tumble all around. We've seen something similar. Andrew on on the Dwarf Planet Pluto Light at the EDGE OF SPUTNIK PLATINUM. Does this exactly the same terrain and the mission scientists for the new? Europa projects think this countless chaos terrain on Europa comes about because exactly that that the surface is being fractured a remembering the title forces from the planet itself that pushing and pulling the service and the stuff breaking up into relatively small chunks which are then tipped around just like these ice cubes and giving this Essentially what's called chaos terrain to more different features have been recognized both really interesting on similar in that both long linear features maybe a few kilometers wide few tens of meters high the ridges anyway a few tens of meters high but but thousands of kilometres lung so the two different things on ridges which is where what. I've just explained you've got a long ridge of material Just a few tens of meters there were talking about a hundred meters or so high which a probably brought about when to kind of plight device compressed together and so you get a pushing up of the materials they collide remembering the surface is kind of emotional time dotcom with what they banned rock bands or anything like that but far different color. These are the opposite. These look as though there where two have ice of stretched apart a nicest grown in between them. Because what you've got is a broad region Ten kilometers wide which is very very smooth with the kind of Ridge. The Salad of it so hard to explain these two to these in words. But it's worth having a look at the pictures the A- The the the reprocessed images of Europa which is the buzzwords put into the jet propulsion laboratories website Jpl Go Okay. How big is you riper? It is bigger than me. If I remember rightly it's not the biggest of the Galileo don't have the number of kilometers Off the top of my head. It's very easy to find. The biggest of Galileo's of the moons of Jupiter the biggest moon in the solar system is Johnny made But the but Galileo himself not the space craft the astronomer discovered these full lodge moons Ganymede Europa Kelly stone and you'll is smallest. Ganymede is the biggest so that you are euro Presbyterian Ganymede and the beauty of them. Is that If you've got half decent Pair of binoculars or a half decent telescope you can you can actually say these From your backyard. I think I remember Years and years ago being able to do that because account remember the circumstances but Jupiter must have been in a good position for us to observe and Got Some amazing photos of Of the moons orbiting Jupiter with the NYC at all and. That's just such an amazing thing to be able to save from such vast distance the Coming up To be very favorable now for observing with small telescopes and Benach culas. It's rising lighting evening on the old sort of rise earlier until eventually it's what we call a position where in the sky all night and it's kind of closest but yet binoculars just about show Jupiter Higher Power and which is ten power magnification thereabouts. The problem with those is holding them head to he fix something but they would potentially show you the moons of Jupiter A small telescope is much better an especially face fixed on ella standoff something then you can see you can really see a from tonight. The way these moons change position which of course his what. Galileo Notice Stellian sixteen ten and technocrat among the pigeons because it was clear that not everything rotated around the earth. Yes and didn't he get into trouble for that one? You've got into trouble yet. Okay so we we've reanalysed the daughter and we've might always discoveries and we've got much more data Alabama Europa. I think it would probably be a good idea to just dove tail straight into the question. We have about Iran for Mallusk right Adrian Crawford Adrian Rights Hello Space. I headed question. I didn't now if you want to answer now. We don't want to answer. Anyone is an ocean planet possible. Well we actually tackled that Waco. So we've we've answered the question and I think I remember you saying that the earth was in fact an ocean planet one stage But then he goes on to us. Is it possible that there is ocean life on Europa Jupiter's moon? I was just curious if you guys knew the answer to my questions Just want to say that I really enjoy listening to your podcast. You continue on your own with your awesome work thank you. It's lovely of you to say So Yeah Fred do you. Do you think you right by. I think has been identified as a very potential Candidate for containing life as has enceladus. I think that's right so Yeah I think the answer to the question is yes spit on think. We oughta were elaborated more on that. Yet you're EXC great question and you're absolutely right undoing this perhaps One Euro per is certainly out there among the top two or three candidates for finding living organisms elsewhere in the solar system. The problem is out. You find them. Because if you've got a global ocean with a global ice layer on top which might be twenty thirty kilometers sake. You do have to worry about how you might probed down to find out what's going on first thing you do. Is You rent a space stroller? Selling eight that maybe. A space icebreaker probably the ethical questions. You don't really WanNa go and smash up the Ice Cream Europa. The European pretty. I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly. Has shown evidence of plumes of ice coming from the surface. Exactly as we've seen with enceladus the the moon of Jupiter and of course the Cassini spacecraft flew through told us what's in it Revealed all kinds of very intriguing things molecular hydrogen which suggests that the The water has been in contact with geothermal vents at the bottom of this ocean The you know the minerals in it all kinds of organic materials all of which suggests that certainly for enceladus that may be processes in place that would give rise still living organisms in the bottom of the ocean a bit like the the the hydrothermal vents here on Earth. And knowing that you positive very similar structure to tell this is actually near to the sun sets a little bit woma although the surface is still in the minus subject and fifties sixties. The at the does suggest that may be The there is potential Finding living organisms in the oceans of erode and one way of doing that will be to do Kinda what Cassini has done on a Saturday to send a spacecraft or not I think the The Europa Clipper I think is designed to do. They still orbit the Moon. Europa and actually fly through plumes of material being released from Europa's oppose and analyzed that because what you've got there excuse me said free sample of the ocean frozen. It's just ice crystals but if you can analyse those ice crystals you can find out all kinds of things about the environment. They came from a lot of money on on an icebreaker which exactly although remembering my conversation with them Linda Spilka who's the WHO's the Cassini mission scientists. I talked to her last year because she was over to give some talks towards the end of the year She's working on something called. Ales. Which is an enceladus. I'm not sure what it stands for. But it's basically a thing shaped like a snake which is robotic and drop it on the surface of enceladus and he finds its way down. The cracks in enceladus is and has a look in the ocean of relatives to see. What Staubach. Maybe you could do something with Roper. Similar pull it. Yeah so the. I think one of the reasons why people are concentrating on Europa. The moment is much nearer than enceladus. It's a much quicker journey to get from to Jupiter than is to get from us to sunset in so will we might find results coming soon. A- Although of course there are plans to revisit to enceladus in have better as to what's going on to okay it is interesting A you confident that they could be lost in the waters of of Europa. Excuse me I think I've done. I've done this to you. Two weeks running there. Okay Look I. I think there's a really good chance that we'll find stuff. That might be quite different from what we what we have here on earth but would still be classified as living organisms. I think he's unlikely that we will find Fisher creams shrimp. Nothing approach for dinner. Wants and the but the idea of microbial life. My guess is that we're going to find within the next decade that yes microbial. Life does exist elsewhere in the universe simply because all the all the signs point to that. But we haven't found it yet. Yam said the drake equation will change if we find life on another world beyond our own so just in case someone bring that back up again win wins. Europa clipper due to get the. I don't know and I don't know whether they can go to lunch date yet. They need to check up on. Let me see if I can do that now. Andrew just to give an answer to your question I would look into it as well and NAM. But let's let's take that on notice and took for future date or but yes I in. The potential does exist for life on Europa the moon of Jupiter and potentially enceladus as well and just as a final sort of statement on this Fred Are there any other life candidates in solar system while the other one apart from the two week mentioned the other really strong candidate is tighten the king? He was going to say that. The the biggest moon of Saturn the only moon in the whole solar system with a thick atmosphere this curious landscape of lakes and seas made of liquid natural gas with rocks water ice but once again the reason ocean underneath that motorise so The the the better off without the could find anything talented. He could find microbial life that lives at minus ninety Celsius in a lake of a liquid natural gas the breeze hydrogen elites sexually. That's one of the things that's been proposed. That will be extraordinary. Just extraordinary vice life-form form. Yeah and again. We wanted to do Potentially some sort of test to say if it exists in the same plane as law phone oath or if it's a totally independent and self evolving entity that that's you know. Let's go to leaps ahead. We've already discovered loft beyond earth. Is it the same as life on earth? Has He got the genetic exactly? That's the next big question but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves but thank you thank you for the question potentially yes is the answer On both points we. We answered you question about water planets last week. You're listening to the space. And that's podcast with Andrew Dunkley and Fred. What's and now? Let's take a little break and find out more about our sponsor express. Vpn writer number one by Tech Writer. This is the one I use. I've been using it for a couple years. And I love it when I joined expressive. Apn now brand new new to the market. But I read a lot of reviews and did a lot of comparisons and it was just something about the business model that I particularly liked and couple years down the track on asleep. Can't complain their interfaces very easy to use. This service is second to none. I've had to contact them a couple of times about certain things that I wanted to do and I were brilliant so you may be wondering why I do need vape Panadol. It's all about privacy Do you really want big tech companies governments and others knowing what's going on with your online activity even if you're having nothing to hide. It just feels downright creepy gray and governments are getting more and more interested in what you're doing every day and so protecting your privacy is what. Vpn Is all about. And how often do you run across websites that you want to get information from only defined that the Geo blocked this is becoming an increasing problem but expressed fabian. Pin Solves. That problem for you now if you got to ask special. Url you'll see quite a list of things this service can help you with things. You may never have thought of before as I say. It's the one I use secure fast and it just works so protect yourself on today and find out more about how to get three months free at try express. Vpn Dot com slash spice? That's T. R. Y. E. X. P. R. E. S. P. N. dot com slash space for three months free with a one year package try expressway. Pin Dot com slash space to learn more. And you'll find the link day towels in the show notes and on our website now back to the show nuts and hello to all our social media space nutters who follow us on facebook which you can do at facebook dot com slash space nuts. Podcast you can also join the space. Not Not podcast group which is a group of spice not the spice listeners. Talk to each other on that particular platform and now we're getting new members. Every wakened not think this somewhere ran a thousand people in both groups which is just fantastic. And if you're a youtube follow we are there. We are on instagram. And of course we've got our website at bites the it said dot com slash spice. Nuts way you can not catch up on episodes as well you can also go to the space nuts shop which is getting more and more goodies into the Into the shelves. So yeah you can take a look at all of that And of course that's That's one of the several platforms where you can post questions to us as well. Now we have a question. He Fred from money in Sydney who is asking about the Moon I have a question that was actually put in discussion about the mining of the moon. If we're planning on of the moon will the amounts of white being brought back into ask all a system? I E effect the massive planet. Because of we are accumulating white that wasn't already found on the planet Bay have some kind of effect on the rotational position of our planet. And see how would they even think about bringing These mind goods back down to Earth as it is caught Already quite a dangerous mission getting humans back into our atmosphere Thanks for your wonderful podcast. I've seven episodes left before I'm completely caught up and I plan to start again. That's right Walsum. You might want to tell us what happened. But that's That's manekshaw three part question about mining on the moon. Now we have touched on this before and the moon is in the news this week because there seems to be a new space race to get back there and that involves the United States and China and India and Japan think can't think of the plies involved because the moon is being looked at as the platform for MAS mission But the discussions surrounding the moon in terms of a potential mining. Exploits have certainly been around. Haven't defrayed the have and it's interesting to reflect. You might find useful. Let's through Monique's questions because that's the that. Let's talk about these things. So if he planning mining on the moon what he what you GonNa look for and the one that I suppose is high up in the popular. Imagination is the idea of mining helium. Three which is an Isotope pavilion does not much on the moon. But there's virtually none of it here on earth But it could. This is not yet been proven but the could form the basis of clean nuclear energy It would allow you to do something cold. Nuclear Fusion in amount of that doesn't release dangerous radiation so he could have a desktop nuclear reactor. That's the that certainly the dream of science fiction easiest think there's some physics behind to supported as well Helium three mining. If that does happen would be. It would have to come back to us Because that's what you want to use it. But the the amounts of being would be being mined microscopic compared with either the mass of the moon all the massive earth. That will be true. Anything that you were that you were taking on the bone because we humans yet we can make big holes in the in the ground some of which are very ugly indeed but ends of the dimensions of the planet or satellite like the Moon. They make no difference to the physical promises that the more likely to affect the atmosphere You know with things like fossil fuel burning and things of that so that's definitely a globally fact but the the rotation of the planet he told it and things of that sort have a has no effect until So that actually covers the first two of of leaks of questions. Yeah I suppose you'd have to bring back a massive amount of material like a huge percentage of the moon's mass would have to be removed and put on earth to make any difference. I would imagine yeah. Us physically physically impossible. Yeah in terms of any kind of conventional so the space fly. That's absolutely right. So what's more likely to happen? Is that what you mind on? The moon us on the move whether that's minerals for fabrication maybe fiber cash of spacecraft pots. This is one of the things that people envisage with asteroid mining that if you find a metal at metals on on an asteroid Then you can basically use those in space to build spacecraft which what would stay in space. You don't have to take things back to make them and then put the buck into space and like I like science fiction. I envisage a time where mega spice craft account to be built in orbit. An I think I'd agree with that. I think that's out. Show future in space. In fact I am a great believer in large rotating self gravitating spacecraft for long term habituation by humans. I think much better than taking the mouse. For example an actually. A bit more controllable. Different Story The the other thing though at until the kind of covers off the final one of these questions. How would they even think about bringing this mind? Goods back to Earth is over the dangerous mission getting humans back into our atmosphere. Absolutely right so most of you use are either in space or on the moon but maybe the the more significant resorts that's on the moon is actually water allies Because that is itself a very very valuable commodity in space on water we know is existing hydrated rocks on the moon but also in the moon's polls crisis which never ever see the sun and are known to have reserves of simply is in the bottom of them. Now if you could Use that ice. Ah To make water which is very simple process. You've got laid in need solar radiation of course but but you can also electrolytes it. You can decompose it. Into oxygen and hydrogen atoms which gives you rocket fuel so ice is a very valuable commodity for the idea of further exploration of the solar system because the moon's gravity is much less than the earth. If you can get the water from the moon turned into rocket fuel you don't have to lift it off the surface that makes things much much easier for journeys domas for perhaps Future spacecraft to the asteroid belt and beyond so at that you know it is a real possibility and I think maybe twenty thirty years. We'll be saying Water extraction from the polls of the move that water be used to propel us to the outer regions of the solar system using Chris you don't have to go to the to get rocket fuel of good liquor cabinet and everybody's welcome different kinds of rocket fuel and once. Oh once social distances. We'll all be indeed manege. Thank you for the question. She she was a bit worried that it would sound dumb but now opens up so much dialogue and I suppose One thing I did mention that her question prompted in my mind is Is ownership among. You can't just go out there and start digging halls really. No one owns the moon in this these treaties in place to this particularly things but There are question marks at the moment because of the of the rice back to the moon for all as raisins although those being dealt with Andrew. So you're absolutely right that no nobody can own them. embodied in the Outer Space Treaty of Nineteen Sixty seven and nineteen seventy S A addenda. But the that has been recent legislation passed suddenly in the USA. I think in the UK and also looks looks and book which basically says that if you go to the moon dig up something and bring it back then. It's yours even though you can't stand claim you can't say well this bit of the Moon's mine you but if you go bring stuff back than that belongs to you and said pragmatic outcome based on. I guess the main mainly the experience of of NASA bringing back three hundred three hundred eighty kilograms of rocks and soil from the moon in the nineteen sixties and Seventies. It's not a new concept Fred because that was exactly how the gold rush worked. Yeah that's right. Yes and so in a sense that kind of spock's spice rice because linked to any of it but you can bring stuff back from his guts and get there and the semi's true story does well. Would you know you'd have the sense of deal with an asteroid fascinating all right? Thank you greg question. I do have one more question without notice. Red and LO and behold. You're going to be shocked but I can answer this one myself. Terrific care this. This one came from twitter while listening to episode two hundred deny hero Willie Wag tile at the start of the program. Yes you did. You did indeed and for those who are saying what the hell is a Willie Tyler. It's a small black and white Astrid in ninety bird it's an injectable and has a long slender rigid tile which wags and it's designed to stir up insects so it wags its tile and then spins around and catches the insects and that's why we call it a Willie Wag tile IDA now it's biological name was zoological time It's probably something much more complicated than Willie. Wag Tile but. Yeah they're lovely burden. I have this very nice sort of little twitter. And it's quite piecing and yes. Mr Offense or Fred's. I think it was picked up the wet towel in step aside. The out hangs around my study window. She's very very territorial. Which reminds me the other day last fraud. I was standing at the front of my place and I saw what I thought were five flying high in the sky and as they got closer to me. I realized that will five wedge tailed. Eagles never often see eagles in groups of more than two so they were five of them but my neighborhood magpies saw them to and he went after the any caught the tail end and then the funny thing was he came back. Oh proud of himself. Did a victory sweep believe it or not afraid but as he landed on the Lamppost at the front of my House. He got attacked by peewee. Just stood there gobsmacked watching all these birds go at each other. It was just remarkable night. Jared it's did fantastic and just a postscript rip era free. I think he's the worst. That is Willie whitetail. I would've thought swag tell us would be happy with that just for just frayed. We're going to wrap it up. Thank you fred so much. It's been great fun as always still can't do we'll speak again soon. We will indeed Fred. What's an astronomer at lodge part of the Spice? Not Tame as I you and thank you so much for listening and we do enjoy your Your comments and your questions any input at all On whatever platform And we do look forward to your company again from May Andrew Dunkley signing up. We'll see next week on another edition of the space podcast to despise podcast available at Apple. Podcasts Google podcasts. Spotify iheartradio your favorite. House plan also demand at God still? This is not quality podcast production from DOT com.

Andrew Fred Andrew Dunkley blackhall European Southern Observatory Australia United States Adrian Crawford Monique Space Nets Galileo Binary Systems Fred I Brown professor Euro European Southern Observa Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge
Life On Venus?

Space Nuts

52:41 min | 8 months ago

Life On Venus?

"Love this podcast support this show through the ACOSS support a feature. It's up to you how much give and there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now. Fifteen seconds guided journal. Nine ignition sequence uh space nuts. Three To Our. report it feels good. Hello. Once again, thank you for joining us. This is the space knots podcast episode two hundred and Twenty Names Andrew Co host joining me as always is professor Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge, afraid Andrew. How're you doing today? I'm pretty excited this wait for it. Really did you H- Golf Bolo Did that very well, but Maya audiobook has has been released as of as of yesterday. Very good. Austin. The the terrain Ian Enigma is now available as an audio book, download it from your favorite audiobook distributor, and now it's on Google and now it's on Apple. It's not quite on audible, but it will be they stumm. They're a bit slower than the rest to get get the ducks lined up and I think in all. There are forty three audiobook distributors that a guy to carry it. So. That's very exciting. Now, getting the would out if you because this is this is by yet demand people asking to get an audio copy so I decided or on old it and runs. Five hours. Yeah. Five hour listening. Is the one that? When you play voice very similar to the one on talking to now. Would Bay. Sometimes. It went sound like because I go into character. Rather than just right right. So I haven't been I like the sound of the. This is fantastic. Well done. Liking up voices very difficult I might add. That's right a couple of times, bizarre? Anyway. It's Ole ready to roll. So if you're if you're interested, you can you can download it today. Fred coming up. We're going to be answering audience questions almost exclusively today although there's one story that's hit the headlines this week that we can't not do. FEM accent but. WE'RE GONNA look at the use of lies in spice in some of the issues facing that particular situation measuring distance in spice why we use terms like plastic. Relied sickened or things along those lines. A couple of questions about Venus One is obviously focused on the potential life on Venus, which is hit the news this week. So we'll talk about that but there's also a mission headed Tamaz the Venus? I should say wanted to discuss and we we talked about the journey of light from the center of the Sun recently somebody's brought that one back to to us. So have a crack at that and the effect of Binary Stars on planets. So why plenty to do today it's a jam packed program I must say but Fred let's get straight into it with our first question from Evan. In Sydney. This, even from Sydney Australia. Recently I talked about astronomers using lices, for adaptive optics. Rumor. The US astronomers had to get permission from US spy agencies before turning on their laser for fear of blinding spy satellites. Is this room a true. What would they do to ability to shed? You'll talk on the telescope. What happens for sudden events like a Supernova role and neutrons stack lesion Does this affect astronomers in Australia? And Do Australian astronomers need to get permission not just from spy agencies in the Yusei but also in Russia and China. Hey I really enjoy the show space Nazis I on what put costliest. Thank you. That's lovely and offer to you. It really Aloe. Started about my audiobook. Probably here we. Now, Evans brought up some interesting issues and little bit of clouds and dagger in there as well lies in spice spy agencies permission. What's that about? So the technology that we're talking about here is the use of late. What lies a guide straws? And it's all to do with the elimination of the distortion to star image is caused by the atmosphere. And the technical technology of adaptive optics lets you sense the distorting effect of the atmosphere. And a compensate for it by using flexible mirrors. The nicest demonstration of this is one that can't do because she's needs a visual age a visual light, but if you get a sheet of paper. And look at it, hold it up. That is what the way front of the light from a star looks like it's crossing space. And if you then take your piece of paper, screw it up. Flatly tells again, that's what it looks like. It's coming through the atmosphere. It's very, Very Ari gold. The difference between the bid a paper in the atmosphere is that the crackling exchanging one thousand times a second atmosphere whereas on the paper if just one one sort of snapshot and that's what adaptive optics is trying to do to use flexible mirrors that can essentially reproduce that crinkled way foil. And and restore it to the perfection of what it would have been like coming to expes an the technology is actually moved on enormously in the last decade or so until a number of telescopes use this technique, none of them are in Australia. That's maybe not quite true because there is. There is an opposite of the tree of monstrum low observatory in camera a have A. Basically a satellite station on the same site which is operated by ers electrical systems who do use lays a lasers for. Basically. Satellite ranging. May well be that they have adaptive optics systems built into that, but they're looking very much at you know things in Near. Rather than. Rather than distant objects of let me. Change that and say for astronomy their unused in. Australia because. Our atmosphere in Australia is not really good enough. To to to eliminate the crippling wave front. By doubted optics. I did some experiments with the Montreal Johnny Byrne Professor at Sydney University. This is Mrs Twenty five years ago we did these. With the anglo-australian telescope? To to look at the possibilities of using adaptive optics on that telescope and we did experiments called Lyda away you use a laser to. Measure the turbulence in atmosphere different heights. Brilliant. So Excuse me we weren't using. We weren't using the best observing time, but there were there were. Multiple lands of. Turbulence above US above the mountain top that mountainous full thousand feet high. About eleven hundred meters. You need to be much higher than that to get rid of some of these turbulent leads and sewing, Hawaiian Chile. That they are the main places where that. Adaptive optics used any particular why's guide stars are used? Why do you need a laser? Well? In order to make adaptive optics work, you've got to build a sense. What the way from doing and you do that by looking at what's called a guide style. And E can do with you know with real styles if you've got a star which is near the object of interest and it's got to be fairly bright that's the the downside. If, you've got that star then you can use that to sense the way front and that that basically will correct the whole image. So the object that you're interested in which is next door to the stuff. That will be corrected to, but often there isn't a bright enough star near your objective interest and that is why. These. Scientists generating artificial star using a laser. Typically to sodium atoms at about ninety kilometers above the earth. Now the question that I haven't made was a basically about the you know the problem of hitting something by mistake. On I am sure about the the the US I I think he's right that there are times when you cannot use the laser guide. Star systems in Hawaii. And that is possibly because of. Because of US government's use of space. For reasons that we might not be told about I. Think they get periods when that prohibited. That is. It's more than a rumor I've heard this from some of the scientists involved. It's more especially the case that you want to avoid. Aircraft going through the bane nuts multi game situation. and. So certainly, the laser guide stars that the. European Southern Observatory uses on the very large telescope down in Chile. They have aircraft avoidance systems I. Think they have senses that maybe write I'm not sure exactly how it works, but they shut down the lasers. With an automated aircraft avoidance system when an aircraft is near the beams I suspect. What effect would. That have on an aircraft it. It's not powerful enough to. Penetrate the skin or anything like that. But clearly, it is not the sort of thing that you want pilots of aircraft to dock adopted in that cockpit with. A blinding light hitting their craft and of course, reflecting off all the. All the all the surfaces. Shiny surfaces of the aircraft which then find his the carpet. So the last thing you want to do is point Elisa at an aeroplane people sometimes do it and get arrested shortly afterwards. So yes. So you do have to be very careful about it. Said straddling observatories don't use that because we don't have the atmospheric conditions that are good enough to to make laser gun styles with while. He's also asked about sudden events like supernovae. Neutron Star collision things like that. Yes Oh. So if you have A. Not Quite, sure what what he's getting out there because we. We. Supernova want you want to see is the SUPERNOVA. You don't wear one of those is going to go off and so that's very much the you know the the. It will be the target of opportunity if a if a Supernova in your field of view you be delighted. Neutral collisions. Rare enough events. That I and also in deep space. So the usually the the light we get from these fairly weak. But these what you might call transient events. Telescope specifically looking for transient events and they are going to be very important in the future we think the the transient universe. Popping off. Getting Bryce in faint again quickly, Light Australia I wish you and I've talked about many times The Transient Universe is very much future strawberries something we've been getting used to over the last decade. IT'S A. Strong as the transient universe now also includes satellite constellations as well which you have to deal with For sure. All right. Evan. Thanks for your question. Hopefully, we filled in some of the blanks and we appreciate support Thanks again, freight. Let's move onto the next question we donahue this is from came in text form. Hi Andrew Hi Fred Astronomy enthusiasts use light years to express distance but professional astronomers used past six one in vented in the Early Twentieth Century the Pasig was at the center of Popular Research is that still the case or is this just an historical tradition? It seems the past sick is very earth centric. Would be meaningless to non by distraught him as of which I hope there are many out there. It's only the use is for staff ships during the Kessel run a long time ago in a galaxy far far away for that matter. The light year is also with century. while the lights second can be universally described would appreciate your thoughts would recorded this but could not find how to turn on the microphone plays Diane mentioned that last whoops. News for. Law and. I love the about the Kessel run. And a very important lesson to learn that parade everything. Now he didn't say that but anyway, light-years Pasig slots seconds. What's the story? So strong professional astronomers universally use pass X. So it's not. Listener asks and it was at the center of Popular Search, but he's still the case. But absolutely, and the reason is the past is the only thing we can measure. You cannot measure the light year. It's derived unit. It's nice convenient one to get your head around. So most people can understand. Light years but it's it's not anything you can measure stunned up this top watch and say, oh I'm going to take pass is the fundamental unit and yes itself centric. So we. And maybe if the irony. Earth based astronomers. To, be honest not only not. Only neighborhood, but if there are any and then they would use A. Something similar probably for that for that definition of distance than we'll use. Whatever unit angle corresponds to a second of ARC? They use that I should've just explain what a pass I is is the the distance of an object. Which? We've sometimes an angle of one second of arc offer for which the radius of the SOB. Nine one second of Arc. So if you imagine a triangle with the sun, the earth, in extreme position in Hobart. As. The base of it and then a very, very long thin triangle to the star an that makes a one second. One Second Angle one, three, thousand, six, hundred of the degree they're not star is one passed away and that shit around any styles apnea. Pasig is about three point, two thereabouts light years. They go. All right hopefully that sorta out and. The. How how long did it take? to do the Kessel run what was the record? I don't know. Total. The answer to that. I can't remember either but they did did bring it up in a lighter episode of Star Wars and he had to correct. The the climb because somebody go wrong it was funny but yeah thanks. Thanks for your question hopefully Again, we've managed to come up with a reasonable answer for you but. Still, a thing you're listening to the space nuts podcast with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson. Let's take a short break now for a word from our sponsor name chepe dot com as their slogan says search by demands from name shape at the lowest prices. This is the service, the TAME IT BITES DOT com used to buy and manage out minds, and we're very happy with the service support and value. We receive Kat recommend them highly enough buying the right domain name shouldn't be had and with name Chepe, we've found it to be anything about that. Find your dream domain join over two million happy customers. When you register with name Chepe trusted with over ten million domains. You'll find you're in safe hands when it comes to turning your website ide- into reality. They also have excellent tools to find the right name for you like they handy search engine, just type in your desired name cross, your fingers, and press search. If what you were after resort taken, Thou offer up some great alternatives and if you're looking for some inspiration, try the new website domain name finder based mode and discover thousands of domain names fast we've found their process to be excellent management tools intuitive and easy to use with excellent customer support. Should you need it all in all a great experience all round if you're looking to pick up a domain name or two or three or whatever it is, you need to check them out and help support us at the same time. Just visit space that's podcast dot com slash name Chepe that's space nuts podcast dot com slash name Chepe and nine. CHEPE is one word you'll be glad you did and you'll find the URL details in show notes and Not just the support page now back to the show. Space nuts welcome back to the space and that's podcast Andrew Dunkley here with for Watson. Thank you to as social media, supporters and followers on all sorts of platforms we love to hear from you we get cards and messages. Messages and and sometimes some brilliant gifts on facebook that people put up about some of the discussions. You can follow us on the officials space nuts facebook page. Of course, just do a search for space nuts in your facebook search engine or you can join the space nuts podcast group on facebook, and that's a group dedicated to you talking to each other and quite often people ask questions there that Fred and I have no idea about. So go to the podcast group and now answer it for you. What what I love visit everybody's got an idea. To, put forward when it comes to a complicated question and get some real really interesting answers and sometimes a bit bitter debate but it's all in good fun and it's well worth while Sarah, if you'd like to join the space nuts podcast group on facebook place to yellow, find on Youtube, which is growing in numbers and downloads are increasing for that. We're on instagram. We're on twitter where on. Any posters on bit disappoint. We gotta get in a billboards or something I think that'd be pretty cool. But that's very old school. Isn't it Never Mont now now let's go onto. Next question and or do you want to you want to talk about Venus? These two questions, a dedicated Venus but there's a huge news story this week about the phosphene having been discovered in the atmosphere of Venus. Should we go there for just do that to to introduce because? A remarkable discovery announced this week. By scientists something I know actually I talked to one of the mail. He said, nobody's asked him about the vaseline Venus, which is a shame because I've spent most of this week talking about Voss phenol Vince but never mind. The fact is I'm surprised now in spoken to him because every news report I've seen is basically said, oh there's life on Venus. Being a journalist knowing had journalism works they going with the sex he saw it at the story going with the with the the grab. By I've seen counterarguments saying hang on a minute hang on, it's not life may be an indicator of the potential for life. So what is it really? Yes. So what what's been observed is the presence of phosphene in Venus's atmosphere phosphene is. Three molecule made of phosphorus and hydrogen. Phosphate common in the atmospheres of John It. But that's because lots of hydrogen there John, John Planet Earth mostly, hydrogen, and so this plenty of it to to. To make the chemical from. Noble Chemical Processes. On the rocky planet like Venus. That isn't that prevalence of hydrogen and so phosphene. For quite some time has been held up as a potential biomarker. This predates the discovery. that. We found phosphene in the atmosphere of a rocky planet beyond the some A. Another star we might be we might be able to say that. Life their. Butts and. That's great. Actually because what this discovery fostering on Venus means is that we can actually test that I prophecies because eventually we'll be able to go that with the spacecraft and take samples of the upper atmosphere Venus and find out what's in it, but you're absolutely right the authors of the paper themselves are very. Cautious in the interpretation of what they found they have worked very, very hard. To. Basically, to to to find other causes for the appearance of fostering chemical natural chemical geological causes and they've looked at Vulcan isn't live look at the effect of sunlight looked micrometeorites. They've looked at lightning in Venus's atmosphere. They've you know they've they've looked at all these different aspects that could pass 'cause phosphene to be there none of them can make enough. phosphene to to compare with what they've actually seen and so life is their last. The last. Had basically the the last suggestion for what it might be but. They're still. In themselves still skeptical. But yeah, of course, they know that this is a big discover he. Made with James. Clark Maxwell Telescope in Hawaii. That's why the people who I know work. But folded up with Alma, the Atacama large millimeter array, and I think there are more observations that can be done without that might tell us a little bit more about it. But very exciting stuff. Very very exciting but the as as the saying goes in journalism never let the truth get in the way of good story. That's right. It's written on Pike. One of your journal Journalists Study Manual when you go to university. I'm sure. Now while we're on the subject Venus, we do have a couple of questions about that particular planet silence Goto the question I from will in Phoenix. For this will penis again thank you for answering my question last week. That was awesome. I have another question about Venus fascinated by the planet. It's so similar and so different from our results time I. I've learned that Venus rotates. Backwards But very very slowly. And that is very weird I. think because it's such a large body and I know that as bodies it larger, they tend to rotate faster because it can serve any momentum and then wondering. Why is Venus so slow? Why does it rotates? So so I think even rotates backwards. I don't know if there was like a giant impact or if we have evidence of some other eventual or series of answer. I, don't know I would love to hear. We guess think thanks for the thanks show. Thanks. I have a very quick and accurate answer to his question as to what famous is so slow and I'm going to hell for this one because she's a blond a. I'm not going to touch one hundred. I didn't think it would I didn't think you would. But I think they'd probably be a more scientific reason why is slow is is in fact slow? Yeah. So what? What will says is absolutely right So the the year on Venus. As two, hundred, twenty, four days effective actually two, thousand, five, hundred, and twenty, four, point six, five days. Excuse me. That's how long Venus takes to rotate once around the sun. But it. Gives me the dreaded frog in the throat again that? Buddies, rotation. is two hundred and forty three days. So it rotates on its axis one, thousand, two, hundred, and forty three days. What that means is it by the time it gets the end of a day. It's already gone once around the Sun. So two, hundred, twenty, four days for the rotation two, hundred, twenty, four, point, six, five. Two hundred forty three days, twenty, six minutes for. Sorry two, hundred, four, hundred, twenty, four days for the revolution around the sun going to get the words right revolutions going around the sun rotation is the planet spinning on his access two hundred twenty, four days a to revolve around the sun two, hundred, forty three days to rotate on its axis and what that effectively means exactly as we'll set it rotating backwards and to believe the younger. In your dreams if If you live there, you'll be fried. Hundred and sixty degrees. Celsius surface temperature. So in Layman's terms because I need to talk that. Why it? It's it's year is shorter than its die yes. That's exactly correct. That's not just a layman's terms. That's what they. Say Wants to know why yes. So We don't really know. The the the to some extent there will be a tidal friction fact. You know that's what happens with the Earth and the moon is the title friction between the Earth and the moon effective gravity acting on both bodies that have slowed down the moon's rotation. It was probably spending quite fast when it was born but he's now rotating once per revolution, which is why we always say the same side pointing towards the Earth. So what you've got is a similar situation with Venus, but it's kind of slightly over shots because the the day is now longer than the year. They may have been as will says, you know the May have been impact? That may have been A. Catastrophic interactions with other planets where planets come close to it in the early history solar system but I think the the rotation. Is is really linked to the fact that it is so close to the sun it's a large body. So the title effects of the Sun on on Venus going to be significant, and that is probably the bottom line. That's why it slowed down. Mercury also has peculiar rotation. It's it's not tightly locked like the moon is, but it's got. One and a half two, one resonance between the rotation. And the revolution. The rotation is fifty eight days. I think revolution if I remember is eight, hundred, eight days. So. There's another slightly peculiar effect bath. Slow rotation. So both these welt. Effectively rotates slowly as you said, probably due to the fact of the of the nearby, some slowing them down Nagar. Thank, you will love the way your brain works i. The way you phrase your questions. I think that's fabulous Do the conserve angular momentum. Think of that stuff. Good Grief You took clever for me while we're on the subject of Venus we we know of emission going the David wants to know about that Guy Goes David here just following up on the recent episode involving the Veritas Pride that's going to Venus. Just. had a thought the weather, the difference in the two planets, earth, and Venus by Biju to the impact from thea. And something to do with the energy lost in that collision that preps gave us the Mon as I think. I enjoy the show. Thanks very much goes keep up the good work. Okay So, he's wanting to find out whether or not a new collision issue could be a differential between the planets. Where it's Veritas up to at the moment is still a proposal mission. But. It is really. Designed to look the tectonic and impact history of the planet and so. You know we as we were just saying a minute ago in the in the unto wills question an impact is a possibility. David mentioned the mass size object that we think collided with the Earth and generated the moon. Possibly An impact. That impacts with the earth. May Have. To some extent had any effect on Venus over. The distance is a big enough. that. I think. For any facts on the rotation Venus what we've just been discussing whether it was due to an impact with another body. I think that would have had to have been something separate rather than. Anything to do with the THEA. And maybe very tasks will give us some insight into that down the track when it finally flies and we. We get some really detailed data. What I'm wondering is whether. The very mission is going to be modified to carry an with it can. Drop down into the upper atmosphere of Venus and have a look see what's there whether the fostering is actually coming from living organisms or not. I'm getting very excited for it because helicopters on is. A. veinous submarine. Where going to send the submarine account remember. But These are all concepts or no, but well, now the helicopters really happened but it's very exciting and I, you know the more the more we find out that we want the we want to prove these theories about various aspects of solar system. And we'll get there eventually it's just time it's time and everything's go to sort of fall into place properly and. You could be fingers crossed I guess yes that's right we. We really need to live for a couple of hundred years to say all these missions You know take shape the. Washington progress especially for once the solar system wait. Very Long. Journey. Journey Times, but that's not really on the agenda moving. Air Enough. David hope we managed to fill in some blanks for you today as well. You're listening to space nuts with Andrew and professor Fred. Watson. System. As Nets, thanks for listening to this space nuts podcast, and thank you to our patrons for supporting us with a few dollars every month, and if you would like to do that there are a few ways you can do it through how mind distribution platform a cast is it donation? Option there you can do it through super cast, which is where patrons can sign up for package deals and get multiple podcasts for a yellow monthly fee if you desire or you can go to patriotdepot dot com slash spice nuts and sign up for as little as three dollars a month that's three dollars US and That's Hilarious to it. Now it's optional it's not absolutely and utterly something that we are. Going to ever make you do it is totally up to you, and if you do that, we ever thankful but it's optional. You do not have to to our patrons thanks as always for supporting us. Of course, you get the benefits as patron you get finest material you get an ad free version and you get it early, which is one of the benefits of more view the benefits of being a patron. Fred, we've got a few more questions to knock ever. So let's get straight into them and let's hit you with the next one. Injury Fred, it is thought that the asteroid sixteen psyche is an exposed in core of a proto punit. I would like to know if the upcoming. Psyche, probe. Will determine it and is it possible that some if not most of the debris that makes up to asteroid belt is part of the outer shell of this planet. Thank you very much. Love your show. Looking forward to hear more. Okay. Thanks to your question Tom know you. But that's okay the substance of the question is asteroid sixteen sake maybe an exposed core of a proto planet. Yes freight. It is thought to be exactly that yes a sixteenth psyches close to my heart because when I did my masters degree one, hundred years ago. Researching the orbits of Asteroids Planets as we call them then sixteen psyche was the first one that I did observations of is well known asteroid. But yes, good stuff a lot of fun. So tell. Observing. With telescopes. In minus fifteen or sixteen degrees Celsius in winter in Scotland. If you could call, it was in some ways anyway sixteen psyche. As what's called an anti asteroid and them son for metal I think. It's basically may divine and now comes the determination comes partly from its mass. Well, we can measure size. We've noticed mass. That gives you its density. It tells you that it's made if I on. But you also have radar observations made from Earth and that that they to. Essentially speak of an iron nickel composition. Exactly, like some meat here is that we see nickel meteorites. And they. You've probably seen these in museums andrew an iron meteorite sliced through and it just looks like a lump of iron. It's kind of. Slightly in color, but basically shy the and we think that's what psyche might look like. Interesting. To Imagine the Cold I n Cau- of approach, the planet that has been exposed perhaps by a violent collision with some other objects. Back in the history of the solar system? Although early enough. To prevent the formation of a what we call the differentiated pro warm weather the heavy stuff to the middle. So. Some sort of collision. It Strip off the outer crust of the of the proto-planets leaving an exposed iron core and that is why psyche so interesting because. Certainly. Interesting. Enough to have its own space mission. This is one that is not in the decades ahead the launches in two years time a plan for August twenty, twenty two, and we expect the spacecraft to go into orbit around Psyche a early in twenty, twenty six. So with a good chance that you and I will be still talking about the these things by then. So hopefully, we might get some news directly from sixteen psyche maybe even images of what must be a remarkable looking object if the radar observations tell you that he's got an iron nickel surface, then it must be really quite spectacular to look at and he's great that this. this. Space Craft, which is called psyches as Assam Listener said. that. That is actually been approved. It was approved a back in twenty seventeen I think and is now well on its way. Another. Just one of the thing about the the the mission Andrew That's interesting. It uses so electric propulsion. So That means basically Solis solar panels generating electricity, which will accelerate a plasma from the exhaust of the of the space craft to to give it the you know the. Ob changes that needs the orbital adjustments mid-course maneuvres. Thing will be done by Sola Electric Power. Isn't that clever a love stuff yet? Scratch D- Now, just one thing that wanted as a consequence of of the question and get a sound like a blunt myself now. What exactly is a prototype planet? Yes. So it's what we think. You. Know Planets. Basically emerge from. This multilayered process you start off. With the cloud of gas and dust, he collapses under its own gravity. The Central Park collapses so much pressure goes up and you get a nuclear processes kicking off that becomes the star but the daybreak, the dusty debry foams along with residual gas forms into a disk. And the dust particles stick together by actually electrostatic forces are thought to be the initial things that stick dust particles together. But eventually is gravity things build up to bigger and bigger objects. They collide with one another so they get smashed up but then they Basically aggregate again a new you wind up with them proto-planets, which is significantly bigger than something called planet symbols which. The forerunner of that these smaller objects and protoplanets Almost like planets themselves but smaller and by almost like that, they like we've just been discussing differentiated into the different labs as gravity pulls. The iron down to the middle because of course, is molten because he talking about very high temperatures as a result of the collisions. So protoplanets is what will eventually become a planet when it? Creates more material. So to sixteenth. Sakis. Obviously, never going to do that because it's been bumped out of whatever older after it's been smashed up, and actually that reminds me of the second part of this question. Is it possible that some if not most of the debris that makes up the droid belt is parts of the outer shell of this planet certainly, some of it will be probably not most. Suddenly some of that would be debris from a whatever psyche was before he became a metal asteroid. Thank out. All right. Let's move onto our next question from Andrew. Alert Andrea and Trent. This is Andrew Mitchell here from noble Strega. was very interested in your discussion about what's journey from the center of the Sun to us. As I understand it. A fight on gets absorbed in remit remitted ray emitted many times ninety million times on of light to the. Outer Atmosphere of the Sun before comes to US earth. But. Is it really one fight on that's making that whole journey. I don't think so. It's not the science told markets absorbed and remitted that energy gets converted into energy within the at. And then that's another financial stocks. I was wondering what you think about that perspective. Once Jenny that it's actually different photons. Thanks. Love you work Bonnie. Thanks Andrew Van Just Cape Ann on your bird because mascot is prowling around at Fred's place. And he's GONNA ready alert. I get here Andrews Chipping in the background I even being a little allies ing. Sounds good. Yes, I must dose of a bell for. Look. Andrews. Andrew Mitchell crack questioner is absolutely right. I, kind of glossed over that is not the same photon. It is exactly it's under says. The center of the Sun Effect. Not Gamma Ray photons very high energy photons and. Interact with atoms and the remitted. Graduate the energy of becomes low. I think I said. Pull this number out of the when we spoke about less time about two million years for the journey and if suddenly that number before. I would refer Andrew to a really nice piece, which is actually on the Goddard space flight center as a NASA. Webpage just Google journey of light. An it's an article by current Fox, and that gives some lovely graphics but a bit more detail on how light gets from the center of the. To the edge and. The. The revised estimate for how long light takes to travel through the sunseekers and these the sounds different ways. He's forty thousand years not a million years but still longer than you might expect for what starts offers a Gamma Ray photons emitted by. A nuclear reaction in the center of the some to bounce its way being reb remitted as a different votes on his under says right to the surface and to shine forty thousand years it's quite a long time. So. Yeah. Take check check out the journey of light of website. Very. Good. Thanks Andrew and a final question in this episode comes from Barry I guys. I'm Barry from these five in Scotland. Fed without. Fish eggs episode really got me thinking That our solar system might once hottest can start attached to it. got. ME. Wondering about the impact on the orbits of planets and on the conditions of those when there's a second son. I was thinking that for a planet orbiting one or both stars in the in system. You'd expect there to be It constantly being food closer to one or other of the stars or to both of them. The big question for me is how significant those changing forces and movements would be. And whether they might lead constantly changing conditions on the planet committee, even affect the potential for advanced life developing. Complicated equation. I'm sure there more unknowns, nunes that love to hear your thoughts in the Joe. Guys and facts. Regret you. Thank you Barry and I might just point out that I've done a fair bit of family history research and a significant element of my ancestry is centered around five in. Scotland. So I yeah on very excited to come a connected with somebody from Scotland even as he's nab? Yeah. Great accent too by the way, not could even understand him fred. Well these SNOOKA five Barry's absolute barry's absolutely right. I, know it. Well, in fact, is a spiritual home. I. Have on this planet that's where it is because that's where Saint Andrews is where I. fabricated. My. Indication. And of course, I might add some one of my daughters lives in still so. Connections that Guy Back. A couple of hundred years to to connect with my family and five but yes. They did it or originate they. As you know through one branch, my family, which is very soothing to discover. Or is thought I had scored his blood well. Whether you've you've got, you've got that Scottish chip on your shoulder, which I'm sure I have to that comes from origins. Like. Spending money which. Glad. Lovely I'm hit Barry's accent. PFEIFFER and a great question as well about being. The idea of what happens with the planets of multiple stars this is actually being studied. In quite a lot of detail A. By. By the theoretical people who model the gravitational influence of of things of this sort and you under I think there are already examples both of. Planets orbiting one star of the binary system and a planet orbiting both styles of a binary system which are two very, very different. Scenarios. And exactly as Berry says, you've got constantly changing gravitational forces. It's it would. It would result in. Some tendency toward instability would imagine in the orbit of a planet, but you could find situations where. You know the the the resonances between the various obits if you've got a binary system, what that line do? Buy. A pair of stars orbiting one another my impose a particular orbit on the planet of one or both of the stars that might result in stable situation. So. I'm not an expert on this but I know people at work and the possibilities of that there will be. There will be. Scenarios where we do have planets, orbiting multiple stars, and so exactly as Barry says, how does that affect the evolution of life? You would think it might be quite disruptive. I mean one of the reasons why we? Believe life emerged to the form out to the level that it has on our own planet is because of the stabilizing influence of the move because the moon stopped the earth from changing its axis of rotation of time and I think. If, you can find stable situations way you've got very very long periods with climates you know confounded constant climbers which. we have had on our own planet, the climate does change we. Over time, but it's relative changes are relatively slow at least until now so that. that. That suggests that maybe. It would be completely detrimental to life to have multiple styles of about which. Planets orbiting and then he can you know flights a fancy of multiple sunrises and sunsets and things of that sort. It's great stuff. It's worth chasing Barry few. If you got the opportunity, just have a look planets have multiple stars on on the web. And you probably find all kinds of interesting bits of information that relate to what we've been talking about. Thanks very much question and thanks for phony getting into. It's very nice to hear the firefighters and again. It's lovely. I despise he got the idea from how son using having once had a a monory. I would plus together lock he's talking about. They probably very, very long way apart I. Don't remember the figure we talked about a couple of weeks ago. But it was. It was a widely separated binary system which we know things that do exist in the in a part of the galaxy. Okay thanks, Barry Love the question and thanks to everyone who contributed to this week's episode. Really do appreciate it, and of course, if you do want to ask questions were more than willing to accept them The truth is we don't get to all of them these guys because we get so many. So we Kinda hand pick them and. that's just the way it has to be. So no disrespect we just We just can't get to the mole. Absolutely. That's why we dedicate. shows to or questions to do a bit of a catch up on many that we do get but we do appreciate it and you can certainly record your question. Var at websites space nuts, podcast, dot com, click on the TAB. If you've got a device we microphone, it's really that simple just press record and a wii ago who I you way of from what you question and it will be recorded and we can do what we did today in and put it on the podcast love to hear all the all the different voices from all over the world. And that brings us to the end of another episode Fred Thank you again. Anytime. You. Can probably put that Maria. Okay. Sounds Great. Thank you. That's professor Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge Proud of the team he on the space and that's podcast for me. Andrew. Dunkley thanks again for listening. Catch you on the very next episode. He's Available at Apple podcasts Google podcasts spotify iheartradio, your favorite podcast. You can also stream on demand at God stuff. This is paying now the podcast production from thoughts dot com.

Andrew US Fred Barry Love Google Australia Andrew Dunkley John It facebook Kessel David Fred Watson Scotland Evan ACOSS Pasig Austin Sydney
Is There Anybody Out There? A New Theory

Space Nuts | Astronomy, Space and Science News

52:49 min | 11 months ago

Is There Anybody Out There? A New Theory

"The fifteen seconds guidance been journal and nine technician sequence. Spence nuts. Three To. One space. Meals good. Hello again. Thank you for joining us. This is the space that's podcast episode, two hundred and seven. My Name is Andrew Dunkley your high school with me. As always is professor Fred. Watson Astronomer Lodge Heidi Afraid I. Andrew How you going? I am quite well. Sir and how you, yes, very. Stealing piece still. Most bitter working. It's all good. Yeah well. I'm no longer in isolation on back at work this WACO. Back in the radio station back in my office It's as bad as normal as it can get under the circumstances, but It's almost three months since I was actually working from yard used to work. And it's it feels quite strange even right now because I'm recording the podcast at the radio station which I have not done since. March I guess. so it's all. It's all a little bit. We'd and. Look I. Don't mind a deadlock admitting to era because. For Stop they very few when it comes to me, but I had such a terrible time getting back on the radio and working through the desk after three months of broadcasting from harm I to retrain my Brian as to how to use the the disc. There's an old thing in radio called Second Syndrome usually when you're doing your I shifted a new radio station or your first shift. Ever you concentrating so much. Don't generally make any mistakes. But then the second day. You're a bit more relaxed and the whole world caves in on generally will familiar this. It was third day syndrome. Could not having a secondary syndrome IDA third day syndromes. Our. That's law if isn't that. Coming Up Fred are we talked a bad whether or not? Aliens have visited Earth last week, not that they visited US last week. That's what we discussed last week. and now almost becoming habit of as we talk about these things, and then a new report pops up. That says Oh, well, guess what so well! There's a new theory about intelligent life in our galaxy, so we'll be looking into that There's a project that's being slighted. Full the Moon where they got it possibly send arrived to look for water. to be pretty good reasons behind that and I think on no one of them. And a few questions one from somebody anonymous. We don't know who this came from, but there were asking about scientific papers, way to all the pipe is go. Are they all compiled and putting one Datta Banco? What happens to all the scientific research papers? That's a really good question. I would suggest there used to line garbage bins by I. could be wrong about that we also going to answer a question from Dan in California, who has simply asked us to discuss the crossing 'cause, Mulji? I'm hoping Fred knows what he's and mark from Quebec. is posing a question on us as to what to questions if we could ask two questions of aliens, what would they bay? Well I've actually not put much thought into that, but i. a couple of things come to mind pretty quickly, so we go down that right. But I'm sure it'll have a couple of questions for them. but I prayed. Let's go into this interesting and somewhat fascinating. Publication that came out last weekend through the astronomical astrophysical journal on the possibility of intelligent lifeforms, existing within a universal more specifically within our galaxy, and the suggestion has been that they could be. At least thirty, which just sort of blows my mind. When I first read it, I thought I'll double check way. This is being published on a win ACI, Maybe not but. It seems to have a little bit attraction. It's property refereed publication as you said, it's The astrophysical journal, and I know the publication you read about it, in which is not the most reliable in the world, but yeah the. And, of course, it's been picked up in the popular science media. I'm looking. At the story, I actually did look at the original type of other story I. Think the the Best Account of is in physics dot Org. Website which is great news website for physics and astronomy news so basically what we have here Andrew is. A. Rehash of the studies on the drank equation. And basically putting in new. New Values and you can. Think about the drake equation. Equation of course that's. The designed to give an idea of based on probabilities of whether there are any communicable communicating extraterrestrial civilizations within range of us. That has remember seven parameters in it, and they're all guesses apart from. which is we now know the probably old styles have planets. which we didn't know when frank drag pull this together back in nineteen sixty. I think it was so. This is essentially a re evaluation. Revaluation of the drake equation, using some new statistical techniques, and as I said I did have a look at the paper this a lot in it a lot of. Assumptions made of course as always. To cut to the chase they come to the conclusion the. Who are best actually at the University of Nottingham in the UK. The office come to the conclusion that they could be at least thirty intelligent civilizations throughout our galaxy in other words, the the home in the universe. so. It's you know the thing is just to put this in context, probably beer and a half ago. A paper came out from the University of Oxford that said that number is actually zero. So that it you know other other communicating intelligent life forms a so rare as to be vanishingly small suddenly within our galaxy. The May, be in the distant universe, the so far away that it doesn't matter, so I'm in a sense, you you. You get what you know. You get what you put into it. And you might say the same. The same so the. Mantra that we have with computer programs rubbish rubbish out. I'm not saying that these authors have put rubbishing that, but It's. With this with this particular kind of study, you can put in Putting what you like and you get what you like out. the the big uncertainties of course eternal these values, the the the Scientific Piper itself. Specifies, what the uncertainties are in the outcomes I? Actually don't have the paper in front of me. Bucks they were there were large. But the best guess estimate I think if I remember it was thirty six communicating extraterrestrial civilizations. Within our galaxy. And it's based on things like how long civilizations last and that sort of. Those those things going to it as well. is. Supposed to come up with a number like that. You do have to make assumptions, but Would you call them? Educated guesses, or would you take it further insight that there is some science behind it? Is it? Is it reasonable number two to assume? That say it is the suddenly put all the right numbers in. You know they've considered things like they've basically taken the age of Sun. As being the yardstick speculating that that's the typical, the four point six billion year-old. Solar System. That they say okay, we'll ask the typical. Length of time. It takes to evolve. An intelligent civilization, and then they put him parameters as well like the metal content of the sun now Meta listen. To An, astronomer means anything that's not hydrogen or helium. So these are the the heavier elements iron silicon. Carbon Oxygen, all of those are actually considered by astronomers to be metals, because hygiene, an alien and so Our Son has a particular value of metal content, and they've basically. Stuck in not as well in the in the theories, they've got various criteria. We can criteria that they apply that. the that actually. Give you basically start off with different assumptions about what's happening. So so! Just to give you an example of us. Want to talking about that strong criterion. Puts in the the requirement for. A star to have the metal content the same the same as that of the Sun, which is actually quite rich in terms, you know in terms of these other elements, and that's that the elements that found their way into the earth, when the s was formed under the things that we regard his normal environment, so strong criterion says okay. Put. Put the metal content equal to the sun and when you do that, you get this thirty thirty six active civilizations in the galaxy. The small number compared with the full hundred billion stars in the galaxy phones. It's a needle in a haystack job, but they I in a sense they're coming out with encouraging answer to you know the scientific community trust tresslerlaw intelligence community. Could it sort of Create a catalyst for what to look for. Going forward in terms of may be identifying STAS with life bearing planets potential. Law that's right in fact already happening so. You know and I've spoken at length about the kinds of solar systems that the kinds of. Styles that might. have. Planets that could support life by far. The Communists type of starring the galaxy is is a variety of star. That's nothing like the subsidies a red dwarfs. Much fainter than the sun. But the the they're also when most of the planets have been found partly because they're easy to find around red dwarfs. But You can have a habitable zone in red dwarf you could find. It s like planet in the Habitable Zone of a red dwarf, but what we don't know too much about is the the effective of the flat surface of Red Dwarf said quite active in the end of the sons active, but far more so and so you know if you find a strong candidate with enough like planet around a Red Dwarf and then realized it's being. These planets being Boston lethal radiation from the star. That tends to put the down of so it. It gets more exciting. When find as we were talking about less time, a sunlight style with a planet, the size of the. In orbit around the right distance that starts to look a lot more promising until they're the things that we should be looking for exactly. Yeah now that a lot of people will be excited by the prospect of possibly thirty plus intelligent civilizations in a galaxy. The downside is that they suggesting that they on average seventeen thousand light years away which? I? Know it's not. To mention that. Thank you for bringing that up exactly that. On average. That's the distance seventeen thousand light years. It's a long way. Of. The four four point, three light years to the near star is alone way so when you talking about sort of distance eight difficult any. Essentially, rules out any kind of a radio transmitted conversation because nobody wants to wait thirty four thousand years to get the answer back. If you if you send a message. If. You know. If the. Way a weekend. Identify such a planet. It will just add more frustration to the hall anyone. Will we know your day, but you know we relying on Postal Service? It's GonNa. Take Seventy eight thousand needs to reach you. Sorry about that. and. That's assuming the message doesn't get lost. That's a different issue altogether. But it's a it's a fascinating report and and one. That's certainly. Gain traction in the popular media, but I'm glad to know that it's actually got some substance to it. Because as we mentioned at the START I picked it up in a publication that is of questionable accuracy from time to time so I'm. Glad that actually does have some traction quite often some of these athletes, only the sort of the sixty parts of the story and run with the rest of it sorta goes on the. Floor and you never hear about the actual truth, but that's that's the meteor in some respects. Are you know need to take it over the grand salt sometimes and it It answers that great question. Pink Floyd to a certain degree. Is there anybody out there. Possibly Sire. The answer might be maybe thirty. Which is well? The answer was before. While I was hoping it'd be forty to. Know. Is near enough. There anyway, we might be more of this but It's certainly a very popular area of space science that Tongues wagging. You're listening to the space. Nuts podcast with. Of course Fred Watson. Now let's take a little break and find out more about our sponsor express. VPN rated number one biotech writer. This is the one I use I've been using it for a couple of years and I love it. When I joined expressive ap now that will brand new new to the market, but I read a lot of reviews, and did a lot of comparisons, and it was just something about the business model that I particularly liked in couple of years down the track on, honestly can't complain. Their interface is very easy to use. The service is second to none. I've had to contact them a couple of times about certain things that I wanted to do and I were brilliant, so you may be wondering. Why do need a VPN at all? It's all about privacy Do you really want big tech companies, governments and others knowing? What's going on with your online activity? Even if you're having nothing to hide. It just feels downright creepy. Think you'll agree. And governments are getting more and more interested in what you're doing every day and so protecting your privacy's what VPN is all about. And how often do you run across websites that you want to get information from defined that the GEO blocked? This is becoming an increasing problem, but express Fabian solves that problem for you. Now if you got to ask special URL, you'll see quite list of things. This service can help you with things. You might never have thought of before as I. Say, it's the one I use secure fast, and it just works. So protect yourself online today and find out more about how to get three months. Free at try express VPN DOT. com slash space. That's T., R. Y. E. X., P., R., E. S. P. N.. Dot Com slash space for three months free with a one year package, try express, VPN DOT com slash space to learn more, and you'll find the link details in the show nuts and on our website now back to the show. Space nuts now. If you'd like to become a premium member of the spice nuts fraternity, you can do that. By visiting the super cast website there are also two options therefore ram buying bundles for a small amount of money per month you can combine space nuts with space time for seven dollars a month through Saupiquet Picasso, or you can go the whole hog eight dollars a month. Spice Nuts spice time and the DOC sky conversations podcasts. They're all pot of as stable, and if you go to a super cast website, you can certainly find out more about that oil. You might want to sign on through patriotic and become a patron of the spice nuts podcast, and the other option is to sign on through. Carrier, Ikast, nee can find all that on our website everything you need to know about becoming a patron or a supporter. It's not mandatory as I every week you do not have to. We're not telling you to do this. It is it is purely voluntary, but if you do want to kick, the can for a few dollars a month. jump on our website space knots podcast, dot com and find out more about it they. Now Fred, let's move onto the next topic, and that is the possibility of putting a rover on the moon to find water now I, think I know why they would want to find water on the moon. But. You know there could be more than one reason for that, but it is a pretty exciting project. Is it something that might happen soon? Indeed, it's. This is tech me a bit by surprise because I didn't know about this plant mission. But this is a work that's going to happen in advance of the first Luna landings that NASA will when they put humans on the moon, the first woman in the next man on the moon. Which is shadow for twenty twenty four. What what is being done is a is a little bit like what was done in the Apollo era. Before the Apollo landings, a number of spacecraft were sent to the moon. Basically to land on the surface and check out the conditions. In particular whether you'd sink into the into the moon dust if you if you were human trying to work on the so so awesome. I didn't really know what that will. So farm respects so now. It's described the surfaces walking on Talcum pat very slippery. Very Slim. Up to date instead of united, who made it? Two meters would have been tricky so just as worry than happened. But, of course, we now know much more about the lunar surface than we did in the nineteen sixties, and in particular that there is water in a number of. You know. What am I? Call conditions this suddenly water ice in some of the date craters near the South Pole, simply frozen water, but there there's also hydrated materials on the Moon's surface well rocks that essentially contain. Water molecules hydrated molecules so. You're right about the wolters results. Not only drinking water, but Also it's about rocket fuel because if he can dissociate hydrogen on the oxygen using solar power, an electrolysis than you've got the. With all to fuel the rocket without actually having he come back to a, they'll send you. There or whatever so it's an interesting and. Probably. interesting scientifically, but also interesting from the point of view of human exploration of the moon to find out whether water is how much is what it's like an all the rest of it, so enter a project called Viper, which is a very sneaky nine there. And Vice and we'd. Viper is an acronym for the volatile investigating polar exploration rover volatile basically means. Water. In fact, it means in the context that we're hearing it here. We we think about the hydrogen, the hydrogen, the volatile aspect of it, and usually hydrogen detecting hydrogen above a surface tells you that there's probably ice is down. There is one of the ways that we know about the the ice moons, the outer planets for example so the volatile investigating polar exploration rover. Is a Nassir project and the idea is that it will go to the South Pole of the Moon in late twenty twenty three in advance of the first astronauts exploring the Moon in the team is program so really interesting story because. This is a it's all been done. You know through commercial agencies. The there is a NASA initiative which is called the cops which stands for commercial Luna payloads surfaces. Payroll. Rome Web Commercial Luna Payload Sevices that initiative that basically brings industry partners into to you know to to build and deliver actually to the moon instruments and technology demonstrators, and all of that sort of thing, so one company particular. WHO's nineties? Ostra Baltic great name. They essentially are now responsible for the whole delivery of Ikea to the moon. And he's worked at manufacturing and hold the all the rest of it, so they must be. Very happy about this high profile project. Burqas as quite big. She's almost half a ton. Will work for one hundred days. That's the idea over. You know several kilometres around the the south. Pole region, basically looking at various soil environments as they as they. You know the brief. So. The More interesting of this Andrew is that. Has Four instruments on board. which will be looking for water I don't know the details of them. One of them is suddenly a drill that will drilling to the surface to extract the raw material, but. What the what they're doing is that they're going to send. Three of these instruments in early versions to the moon as soon as next year. Just in the form of Landau, so they'll be once again the C. l. p. s. the Commercial Lunar Payload Services Initiative They're going to send some of these instruments. The Moon land them on the surface, dry them out to see how they perform, and whether they actually work. And then that allows the scientists to refine them. Get them into good order in order to be sent to the moon. In advance of the land. The great thing about the moon is it's right next door. It's not like sending instruments to Saturday assuming like that where you got a ten year journey, so you can't do that. You can send things to the moon Check them out and then in real time. Modify what you what you building on the final. The Final Rover. And that's what's going to happen. It's a really exciting story. I I, like a comment by. Thomas. Zurbuchen who is Nassar's associate in the sorry associate administrative for signs. He says we're doing something that's never been done before. Testing the instruments on the moon, as the rover is being developed his. You know you can't do that with MAS for example. So Viper and many payloads we will send to the lunar surface in the next few years going to help us realize the moon's vast scientific potential. So great stuff. Yes, indeed and as you and I have discussed to the moon will be very important platform for missions to Mars. And as we've mentioned to die in many times before the water on the moon could will be. A source of a rocket fuel so tightly guy to have to build. a facilities on the moon to convert that water into into fuel so have to probably call an is by the sound of it or at least have some kind of livable facility yet so that certainly I wouldn't call it. Colonization drew certainly within us as brief as coming in occupants occupancy the moon in the same way that there's permanent on. The International Space Station. There's always somebody that and that's what NASA envisages for the Moon It may well be so. The autists program was united. Really talked about is a multi faceted NASA. At NASA venture one of the important components of it. Is, something called Luna Gateway, and that's basically a mini international. Space Station in orbit around the moon is nowhere near as big as the International Space Station, but he's got a similar. You know similar features including a fairly large Two of them, actually how tation modules these white people can. Can Live for relatively short periods, not not permanently. As we've got with International Space Station A. You know a staging post. Basically, it's a place where the the can be resources managed there, so it may well be. You know you could imagine that what you do. If you talking about fueling MAS spacecraft as you lift the. The rocket fuel that you've mind from the the moon's surface up to something like the Gateway Space. Station and that's where. You feel your mouse UMASS spacecraft for the luggage. Interesting. To kind of envisage what things might be like in twenty years time? We'll be talking. Look Garden. Accelerating one of the questions that comes to mind about occupying the moon is how long could you stay before your body deteriorated to the point where coming back to Earth could actually be dangerous. That's one thing I. wonder about because it's low G. Muscle Wastage We've seen in the past. Where LONG-TERM time in spaces as caused astronauts comeback in a very cosmonauts Mo-, specifically have come back in a weakened state, so you have to put a time limit on your exposure to those kinds of environments when you yeah I I think you can that particular one. You can deal with with exercising that they certainly do that on the International. Space Section with several hours a day exercise The standards. The direction of a what we call an expedition on the space station six months. So. That's probably okay, but what's a bigger problem? Is the radiation exposure that you get on the Moon's surface because? Get that one. Note no protection. No magnetic field no no atmosphere so. The Sun's radiation in all its forms is beating down on the lunar surface, so you've really got to think about putting your astronauts underground a or at least shielding the. To assign degrees possible, so I think that might be the limiting factor on the length of footer. Maybe put a lead on a on a Kreider. Well in fact, people have talked about the lava tubes on the moon. As their US here on Earth, and certainly people talked about getting into those tunnels wet. This probably bit more protection from the radiation. We will watch with interest, but the rover project of I percents like one giant leap forward for humankind in. making a next step beyond the planet. You're listening to spice nuts Andrew Dunkley here with for Watson. Base nuts. A shoutout is always to social media followers whether you follow the space nuts podcast on facebook. Oh, whether you're a member of the space nuts podcast group where you can get together and talk to each other that group just grows in leaps and bounds You can also subscribe to the podcast through Youtube. Your favorite podcasts distributor apple podcast Google. PODCASTS pod Bane. The list is long IHEART radio, etc, we're also on instagram and twitter. Just do a bit of search for space, nuts, three favorite platform, and and make sure you follow us that way as well now Fred. We've got some some questions. To answer this week at one that's come from an anonymous source, but one that you did want to tackle and it's all about with all the pipe is go. Hi, guys! I just discovered. Your podcast is wake of already sunk roughly twelve hours into it absolutely loving it excellent topics, and the delivery keeps McCabe divided. Will slow down a bit in that case I was just wondering about all these papers that get published. How does one get their hands on them? Is this some sort of central hub? They're all uploaded to or do. We need to already know about them and search them out, thanks. Question is a grand and something. That's my mind, but you hear about them all the time in the news, a new pipe is being released. That says there are at least thirty alien civilization living in how galaxy. Where do they go? So the. I mean traditionally. Of course, they were literally. The papers published in journals. And most university departments of astronomy and observatories. Had libraries where these generals were assembled, and if you want to read some of these papers to go and look at it physically, but now, of course they're all electronically online, wearing a totally from well from what I started as a researcher. The. And but it's still a relatively complex question so in astronomy. The several different journals still existed journals even though. I don't know how many of them still print things. They are actually mostly A. but the main ones for astronomers. In the United States the astrophysical Journal and the Astronomical Journal in Europe it strongly in astro physics in the UK. It's the monthly notices of the Royal Extra Nominal Society, and then in different countries have different journals. We Australia have the publications of the Astronomical Society of Australia Passer. But there are other ones. Many many other ones Acre of Planetary Journal. Publications of the Astronomical Society of the Pacific. That dozens and dozens of days, and of course really capers go. Not just in the astronomy journals, but in the the manager science journals of which I guess, the two most important. A nature in the UK and signs in the USA. However? You don't have to go hunting all these different journals A. if you want to find out what's going on because there is a repulses tree. Of a papers, people tend these days to upload that papers once that. They should wait till they are accepted and peer reviewed, but sometimes doing in advance of that they upload them to a site which is called the archive site, so it's all kind, but the engine. The middle is an ex. That's what. The Greek Kai is so it's it looks like A. Ex IV and that's the archive side, and if you if you do a search on that, that will tell you it's. It's operated through universities. But if you. Just look for Archive. Then he faced with every astronomical paper. This kind of coming out and there are thousands of them a week. So, it would help if you knew if you were going to have a look who the author was for it is you're wanting to look for all what the topic is because he can put those in the in the. Engine so it's a valley daunting and you often will find your your go to paper and full of the technical terms, and that's what it should be because it's you know this is front leading edge research what often makes it more palatable for every day readers, and that includes you know people in the media and commentators you and I Andrew is the press releases. That are often. Issued by by universities wanted particularly significant result comes out, but once again. The problem is searching for them. Yes well. It's good denied. There is Some central process that puts them all together. Not Maybe every single one all in one place, but it sounds like you know are collectives of them, and they are accessible, so you just to know what you're looking for and do some searching, but yeah, science, nature and archive sound like three very good options. You got an in those for any papers. Em Yes a due. Mainly because of being part of some big projects that have been involved in particular the Right Project Radio Los Experiment. This that produced well over one hundred papers, and because I was. In charge of the observations, not actually gathering the data. I very kindly get to be an author many of those. Usually at the end because W is somewhat the end of the alphabet that often. At The recent ones are certainly because of those big surveys, but I had papers in the monthly notices of the astronaut Michael Society, Astronomical Journalist or Physical Journal and I, think one in nature I think of only got my name on one nature paper, and it was bad. Nineteen seventy something like. That break once he's good enough. In my opinion around the ever one Gulf Chan One Gulf championship, but it's yeah, the contract get away from me. But and there are advantages to being further down the alphabet on my soon I'm starts with day and that always put me at the front of the line for the school dentist. So. I felt like the. Anyway. Sorry by the time the dentist to delete that given up, which is why I'm serving the price of. Very very possible. Thanks to whoever sent that question in because it, is, it was a bit of an. For for a lot of people I expect. Let's move onto our next question. It's an audience question. This one comes from Dan in California. Either sedan from California. I have a question about the crisis in cosmology. Could you explain to US exactly what that is and y sudden is becoming. More topic. Love the show. Thanks, okay, thank you. Dan the crisis in cosmology frayed. Is there across in cosmetology? Yet yes, in in a sense, there is because. Certainly in the media you Google crisis. Login, you'll find plenty of stuff on it, but look I've been around long. Enough finders just. About types published in the seventies to know that the current crises nothing like what it was fifty years ago. When the absolute fundamentals of the universe were really not well known. and. What this all centers around is! The Hubble constant and the Hubble constant is basically the rate of expansion of the universe, and it's it's constant at any given time, but it changes over time now back in the seventies. The problem was finding what the constant was. In, you know now. Worry about the time in the past we we needed to know what it was. What the Hubble constant as at the present time and the the two camps of scientists. And their values for the Hubble constant default by one hundred percent. Let me. Tell you the Hubble. Constant is usually quoted in units of kilometers per second per mega pacific so kilometers per second is a speed, and that's the spate of recession of galaxies and a mega project is a million PASA PASA is the the unit used by astronomers? It's rather more than three light years, so a Meghan Pontiac is I think about three three. Thousand Sorry Three point two million years. So it and what that saying is a further opting to spice you look to the galaxies are going away, and that's just a property of the expansion of the universe, but that's what this constant says. So when I was allowed young astronomer, the two different camps, one group were favoring a value of the Hubble constant of around fifty kilometers per second PGA Sake, and the other was around one hundred kilometers per second Pasig. DIVO- CLA and Sandwich of the two names that come to mind in connection with those in the reversal of what I've just told Davila was in favour the high value but now. So one of the reasons why the Hubble telescope was launched to sell this out because he can you can measure the Hubble constant by looking at what we call standard candles. A Standard Candle is just something whose brightness he had no whose intrinsic brightness you know, and so you can essentially measure. How far away is very accurately on the standard candles that we used we used by the Hubble telescope. CEPHEID variable stars which we know about having a standard brightness. And that closed down the. The the the answer. Increase the accuracy. And in fact, what was curious was what came out of that work was that the Hubble constant is basically the average of the too early values that we have so some people sank fifty seven people, saying one hundred out sheet with seventy five it's exactly halfway between, and that's still about the standard answer, and it comes from not just the variable stars, but it comes also from. Looking at Supernova, explosions. STAS which blow up a achieve standard Brian said that. It comes from a process gravitational lensing in the way we C diff distant quasars lands. By the gravitation of intervening galaxies, so all that supports a value which is. About seventy three to seventy four kilometers per second Meghan Pasig. But while, but the problem is the an you know that's good. That's that's one side of the argument. Where the crisis comes is when you study the cosmic microwave background radiation, the flash of the Big Bang because we can see those ripples in flesh of the big. Bang, that tell us about the way the universe Luke then, and you can actually deduce from that. What today's Hubble constant is? Is A new. Get a different answer. Sixty seven point four kilometers per second PA- Meghan Pasig on that as outside the experimental eras, and so what it suggests is that there is something wrong with our standard model of the universe, some aspect of it that is not working, and that is the crisis in cosmology, but as I said compared with what the crisis is like back in the seventies nothing. Interesting, when you do a Google search and the crisis in 'cause cosmology, you get three, million, two hundred and fifty thousand results. So. Yes, it's not a very common topic really in this game. But the thank you Dan via question fully. We've managed to not resolve the crisis in cosmetology, but at least resolve your wondering of it. Let's move onto the next question Fred? This is mark in Quebec. The. Something we discussed last week. In terms of whether or not alien civilizations visited Earth, but then he follows it up with a intr- interesting questions are asking questions. We'll get to that nick. Hi Fred Andrew. My name is mark. I'm my recording from. Sherbrooke in the province of Beck in Canada. I really really do like and love your gas especially last one when he talked about. That alien civilization visited us. Well I just wanted to point out the fact that you know considering the level of technology required traveled to our solar system and even more in our galaxy. Why would they spend so much time and energy to get to us? To get what exactly plastic polluted sea water. I mean. What could they find here? They couldn't not find. Elsewhere I mean if they can get to us. They probably already found numerous order civilizations in their galaxy neighborhood Okay now Fred and Andrew I would still like to know about you. Let's say you have the chance to meet real aliens and you can each ask them two questions. What would you ask them? Thank you oh okay. Wow. Thanks mark. Putting us on the spot of it actually one thing he said you know. What would they find here that they wouldn't find anywhere else. I'd find us is my answer to that particular angle on a visiting planet. I think that's why they would want to come. He wouldn't come here to. Do anything else would imagine unless title by. Find us when they would. Be Good. If, we still around there. Yeah. Exploration of the universe I guess is the is the answer It's what's Enrico Fermi postulated in his foaming comic power paradox. He said that if if civilizations have the wherewithal to travel about the university wilder. And you know even if they just kinda randomly looking at planet. To catalog what they like close up. That my still bring them here. So who's GonNa go. I drew about what we. Look at it I'm to give the lime question so I'll go first because yours will be much more astute. But I did I did put. Thought into it. and I think the first question I would want to ask them is how? We created. How D-. How do you come to be? which would also angle me into the God question, so I I would sort of firstly. How did you evolve? How did you become what you are Why Do Exist? What were the circumstances? How did you develop a spacey's? And do you believe in God by the way I mean way too, but. In general terms. That would be probably the one of the first things. The question without notice. That I would want an answer to. How did you come to be what you are? I would really want to know that. I would also want to know and I would ask the question straight at. Is Your civilization successful? And I ask that because I know of we all know the troubles we face here on earth with a Java the the disputes over territory disputes ever resources the constant fighting over borders, the ideology that gets in the in the way of humanity. I would want to know if they have similar issues. in they are more do they have the same kinds of civil crises that that we have been fighting for thousands of years, and what we could learn from each other as a consequence of that if they did have a successful civilization. What could we learn? That might actually make our lives better. Ovalles's versa. Maybe they've got troubles that we can resolve. It is a couple of areas that I would definitely want to. Focus on and learn more bat from them. Does it just questions the top of my head, and probably more journalistic than intelligent, but I those those are a couple of things I'd want an I, plus plus I gotta I gotTa throw in a third one. What you currently for the for petrol because we pie why to be much He. Had IT. You afford to get here because petrels not shape. would be what's petrol. I probably will guess if you North Americans. What you currently paying for gas. But yeah that that those two questions about how that recreated and yeah, is there a civilization? A success would be my two off the cuff questions. I think they're really profound under I. Think you're on the selling yourself. Because Zach. Sounds fiction writer. That's right, and that's a you know a Imahara. But first one will be similar to to what I'd like to know the. What about what what what are we missing? but To come back to do just to focus on two questions, the first one would be so. What about crisis in cosmology? What's in? Ninety guy. We'll well. I can understand that Fred. Because from your point of view, you would want to say what. I have learned about the. Is. Compare Nights. and. In fact, this is my second. One will be along the same lines. How did you get here? Come on, what's the? What's the secret of your? Your. Supplying sources. Probably. No doubt. But I'd like to know how they work and that sort of stuff, but yes, you know. Anybody who can come along and tell me what the universe is full. I will be very interested. I architect any intelligence. Spacey's out there the thirty of them in Galaxy probably neither that air, though the probably don't have been the same his way. Yeah. It's really you know I. Mean I think questions like this really good to ask because they they kind of focus you on what you really want to know about. What what? What are the things that really? The really in a way travelers. In in terms of our understanding of who we are, and where we fit into the grand scheme of things. So. Hopefully John, up and shut up soon because I want to know the answer to these questions very quickly. David Question List would be on to. Maybe, maybe the space nuts podcast group on facebook could can throw that one into the mix, and and have a chat about it because I. Reckon Aric and that would be a long. Very long topic on the many topics that are discussed by the group, but if you're not a member of the spice podcast group your to join because. They. Do have a Lotta Fun. Fred and I tend to keep out of it, but. Because it's all for you, but occasionally will chime in with a coma to the. Yeah, thank you so much for that question mock because it is really one that gets gets the Brian going and I do enjoy those kinds of conversations as does Fred That's why we're going to have live at Fred. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure. Andrew Been Good Mornings Work and thank you for your time and your company and thanks to everybody who listens to us. It's always great to other people out there. See you soon. Okay thanks Fred. Fred Watson Astronomer Lodge. The K. member of the space nuts podcast tame. one more thing before I. Go and don't forget to visit our website. We've got a new URL. It's called space. Nuts podcast DOT COM, and we're still it, but it's It's sort of reaching a stage where it's. It's effective. Now so you're on the homepage? You'll be able to listen into all air episodes down the list but across the top there a little tabs We have a blog is a bit of information about our background. Is the astronomy daily? News page that we have where we just keep adding all the stuff that's coming out through journals, a lot of them and papers, and You can subscribe to the website the A tab. They way can buy some books, apparently unaware comic books I are but the other and the space. Nuts shop is up there as well so space nuts podcast dot com visit a soon in the meantime stay well, and we will catch you on the next edition of the space. Nuts podcast. This. PODCAST. Available at apple podcasts Google podcasts spotify. Radio, your favorite podcast plan, you can also stream on demand at. This is another quality podcast production thoughts dot com.

professor Fred Fred Andrew Google US Brian UK Dan NASA Fred That Andrew Dunkley Space Station Viper Fred Watson facebook California South Pole Quebec. IDA spacey
160: Elon Musk's Internet

Space Nuts

26:29 min | 2 years ago

160: Elon Musk's Internet

"Dan shack on his guidance internal can nine commission think one shot then now for three to four street astrologically for hello again thank you for joining us only podcast known as space not so i'm your host andrew downplayed that's all i'm good at and with me as always is professor fred watson astronomer lodge hallo fred well you doing better than i am cause i'm not good at anything august you stop now like otherwise you wouldn't be jet setting all over the world doing lectures and conferences cindy clips is which is clips of doing this week while really second of july strong gusty which clips this one a it's the one in south america okay that'll do i'm sure it'll be in the news that people will be able to look it up gingerly that's right now we're a bit the coveted a twoday 'em we gotta talk about elon musk's satellites because it looks like 'em they're they're upset upsetting some of your colleagues as they did in fact warned him about that when he came up with the idea of putting a lazy internet satellites into space well he's put some up there and they brought in people anticipated we're also gonna talk about the star trek logo because they founded on my eyes dropped it but it's today israeli they add a couple of questions one from brad about a black holes in will be easier to detect or say we've the james webb telescope good question and simon straight asks is ice singularity die mentioned list so we'll be focusing again a fair bit on black holes because people just seem to wanna know more about the imprint so will drawn filling the blacks the blanks as much as we can now let's get onto this issue of these satellites self elon musk is set up a few already a he's planning to launch about twelve thousand if they things and they astronomical world is a little bit a gold i think it'd be fantasize nuts that's right it's this it's just suddenly appointive great discussion in astronomical world at the moment because you know it and it is a something that will impact on the night sky and ashley the daytime sky is wealth radio strongly was his radio strong numbers don't care whether it's dial nine feels affecting righty waves so on what we talking about here well this guy constellation of satellites a in a project called styling a that a already sixty of them but they were launched in may and they're the obits around about five hundred killer mason's but a style link in his eventually configuration will have a mall then just one shallows offensive lines have been put it that way there will be some bitter about double that ties and i think some slightly lower i can't remember the exact configuration but these things twelve thousand satellites in orbit around the sticky if you want is effectively global coverage a only only internet and that means wherever you are you'll be able to be in touch with the satellites in the styling network unease their ideas to bring they benefits of spice that we all you know the both of us who lives in nations likely u s the uk europe a australia effectively take for granted but a lot of places in the world don't have that it's not they do not have the benefit and so in that regard this is a you know it's got a i think good motivations although some some question whether it imprinting the the the western values on communications and things like that so the entire world is necessarily a good thing it depends entirely on whether than the rest of the world once it a it's so you know it's not uneasy ethical problem to solve but they they ethics should be clear a when it comes to putting a lot of stuff into space because whilst astronomers certainly don't have a the exclusive a owner ownership the shape of space 'em it's you you could put it on you could put it in very nice words that she i might just might just on quotes and astronomer a little upset of the tree usa one of my colleagues have just come to work a a he says the natural nice guy is a resource not just press java's but for all who look upwards to understand and enjoy the splendor of the universe and he's dead degradation has many negative impacts beyond astronomical and there is another comment that's been made which is along the same lines although astronomers cop make an exclusive claimed to the night sky nonstick and anybody else so you it's not it's not just spacex we talking about here because they're at least two other companies and i think sam son got planning something called one web a and there is also something called the the project which is amazon's version of the same same thing between the two will put up ten thousand stuff so we're talking about meghan yeah yeah that's it from two questions in my mind trade one of the rules when it comes to paypal private people wanting to put stuff into orbit a because i mean there's a cop blatch tonight yeah if i wanna do it cannot do it a or are they rules about positioning and a and a you know the other thing i think is congestion what what these guys what happened with so much stop made it got a lot of junk exactly so on the first policies that yes there is some a you know there there is some licensing a project called the realized the way you put things things you know she particularly applies to the gestation reopening switch a much much higher than the styling moms just stay cereal but it's a very very tightly controlled because that that that's a very specific kind city thirty six thousand kilometers says above the surface so but so louis oversee fellow freia although the ecommerce giant injected spacecraft into the same over the occupied by something else or else be a collision and i'm not just going through the second passive income and that's one of the dangers was styling that a you you've got all these space craft very large numbers and they they way instead of a ton eight just something about that they're not small you know they're not none of cuba's example a so a collision would a really inhibit they use of space further because they've called henry all over the place and you'd likely get a kind of a domino effect with a with a holy space craft the science behind so yes you're increasing a you know twelve thousand these two and a half times bigger than the number of operation is satellites at the moment and then another ten thousand so that you're talking about staggering numbers in collusion's not they're not impossible we've seen several collusion some intentional coast as well so what's the reaction of astronomers well a number of organizations have a have made statements about this and i might just not as well that elon musk himself seems king change a listen to his traumas and listen to that concerns so it's not a question of things being dismissed there is a little bit of a surprise in the on the planning that went into these satellites that seems the slightly wrong because they you know they the result of the z estimates majoring planning was the there will be no effect on they a on late night sky i messed jesting defeat hafer moment decide i have a couple of little gas sort of come say hello a freight oh i have my grandson he and samuel kun you sign the radio right now he's got no shot on me i'm not surprised lollies so you know jerry tempting tempting yup and i heard afraid they're not gonna call it an nfl hello gonna present for me isn't that none of us all come on get it light you just gotta finish doing this is that okay they gotta go the rest weights sounds good all right we will hurry up a total loss and i'll be out of the minute i kinda try thanks cades about is so adorable sorry threatening whenever i own this know that they're terrific little cameo now where we sorry that's all right you're gonna leave this putin yeah so ladies and gentlemen welcome to they run the show with andrew done plea in various grandchildren why neither unrolling sooner or later i had to mine role on the side of the world so is unlikely to happen just going by to elon musk though as i said he's you know the the planning suggested that there would be really no interference in the visual opinions of the night sky but that's been proved wrong these satellites have brought to the expected a very talk by spacex is a you know turning them a in their obey in such a direction that they're not directly reflecting down to the surface to the same extent that old remains to be determined still in a stage where they community and despite the space command cnn astronomical community a sort of deliberating while they ultimately facts of this is likely be from what i've seen andrew and i think the professional telescopes it will be affected most a what a cold wind angle imaging telescopes telescopes basically say king very large areas of sky a full images rather than doing spectroscopy another kind of stuff like that and on the lodge a number of these there's a thing called style and scott pruitt signings bring up the tree that says substantial telescope operated by the end you european southern observatory has to to wind angle imaging telescopes in chile a they vsd the this they they lt survey telescope is what we see stunts full on vista which is a another wide angle telescope so these a significant facilities fees they could find that work impacted by having satellite trials going across the images now the other side of this as far as visuals strongly meal visible light astronomy come sunday sent a they affect a mcgowan latitudes which is where it all began sooner michael facility is a is is only limited to the first hour and a half of some of the night and the last hour of the of the office of the night when the sonny's reflecting on please spacecraft during the middle of the night they're invisible visible so that's one a mickey guys in fact boston still they will have any facts and there's no question about that they'll have an impact on the stormy they impact on radio strong him as he's likely to be bigger because these beaming down a san diego signals those down to the ground that's right now for us in australia it's not a great impact because they australians going gonna make sure i i'm ten is wicked much lower frequencies enough so that that that blind to the frequencies styling will will they made but it's still a consideration for opposite of trees that was the high frequencies and one of those for example is alma they become a large millimeter right which we spoken about many times but findings were compromised by by these constellation spacecraft to it's a it's a really interesting time wherein on and you know you could regardless sixty satellites is a bit of a pilot's a project on a certainly a wakeup study whether it will change the overall plans to launch the styling constellation remains to be seen but i hope we find a good outcome role users of the sky well i must say it does sound concerning a and having twenty thousand plus if they things up they why am i just can't imagine not costing some kind of problem somewhere along the line and that that must have a lot of people worry that and then watching the news so yeah let's have common sense provides but i'm in spices water and it's a it's a place that a lot of people want a billionaire commercially and a a hair opportunities are being ignored and this is one of the most suppose you're listening to space nuts with andrew dice clay infrared watson hair off space nuts reminder again that you can become a patron of this podcast by going to patriot dot com slash slash space not a lot of people have done so paying a very small fee once a month to become a patron but you get extra benefits is one of those a commercial free version of the space and that's podcast were also on instagram at bites hq p i eight zayd that e s they hq a on facebook of course where a lot of people follow us all out of a price but there were so many astronomy groups at that part caskets 'em posted to and you to of course so be a part of platform that suits you know freight down we mentioned at the beginning that they had found ice star trek logo on mobs and who dropped it well my state by monday it did that's right so this is this is a lovely story about m a l excuse me a land full amount that has been a observed by the mars reconnaissance orbiter space craft a which you'll remember on board a chemical high rise the high resolution images on the only a mouse reconnaissance orbiter so it could take really detailed images of the surface of mars many one of these a in they area known as the hair loss plan this year a it's a hot just love the names of stuff on each time like jeff nihil did they not yet released it's good stuff but there's there's this view that he's clearly the star trek logo on they on the ground is pretty big a i don't know how many makes his longest is but it's quite significant 'em however it's not and he soon because when you look at indy child you find other examples whole around it it's a you remember the star trek logo is a kind of cresent shaped a i don't know you you might almost call it a cake with a short up stroke a ton of upside down and you've got the star trek logo it's an upstart dan nike like that's what it is they said that says not to on but not to a geologist speaks of one thing only now they send you lose because this is the shape assuming well known in fact she's i learned about these at school ended the geology of schools hundred years ago and we talked about these things called buckeyes b s c h n a box can do and that formed when you've got win predominantly from one direction and you get a sand dune the discretion shaped and so what you've got here is not the unit itself but it kind of facility the deal because of what they saw to have happened in this field is bucking dooms it's a mouse is that the jews were formed by constant win spades and then there were lava flow and the lover on its way around the june scripture due to a crime bagan fairly solid and to what you've got the left is a kind of negative of well these dudes much of looks like a as a see lava flow solidified it left the traces of the dooms themselves so there were these little chaperones rooms all over the all over the not a punch to the surface of mars and as you said looks exactly like star trek logo or if you truly upside down the nike logging missing date so there is some pretty simple really but it's a it certainly court a few people of god recently so we thought we'd explain this now let's knock off a couple of questions before we finish up fred bread from indiana i think he's a messy just before he felt he says hello big fan of the podcast have a two part question from fred now that nasa finally got i pick of the black hole in our galaxy do you think the james webb telescope will pick up anymore since it began better tell us got old will not pick up anything like that since a dozen had used radio waves for rum signal a second question will be is wheel a wheel nasa build a radio wife telescope to fly into space to look at black holes or is that even possible love the show 'em thanks guys bread from indiana people like i said earlier people are just kept divided by black holes and now we've got a photo one they asking more and more questions about so pot one of the question james webb telescope scott will it work qena gonna do to first game because what brand ask saint pop to ace will nasa builder radio telescope declined to space to look for black holes or it's not impossible no it's not actually a radio radio telescopes like that a a one of the ways we detect black holes because they see the radiation that comes from the disc material spinning into the black hole but actually allows you to pick it up you can tell you go by looking at the frequencies the dream missing and things of that sort and there are certainly radio telescopes in space on the show at the nassau price went up suspect they don't the japanese set and they do a so the second pop you're crushing brad is on the money and it's not impossible into the first part though and we're talking about two different things here so a a bronze first base is do you think the james webb telescope will pick up any more pictures of black holes on in these comparing with the one that we saw earlier in the year from the event horizon telescope and the answer is no the james webb telescope he's looking for infrared radiation now accretion disk surround black holes doing infrared so the james webb will certainly discover other black holes but what it will do is give us a picture of it like me event horizon telescope 'cause you might remember that telescope effectively a whole array of radio dishes mimic to go the size of the james webb telescope is six point five majors in the future and he's not a it's not a you know anyway they're big enough to to how we all want to be bigger and better tell us got for the purposes of photographing by cops it's not but it's a good telescopes a finding them by their mission they made you can't see the day challenge it but you but infrared is a good 'em dry sense of what you know what black holes do when when they go building up stuff the does it and you know whatever's disappearing it's a black hole whether that stuff obviously infrared radiation so on yes judge went will suddenly announce our understanding of black holes but he won't send a picture like the one we saw earlier in the year mckay way still waiting for them to take a picture of the one in the middle of l a galaxy but it's while i think this will ramp up here aspect yeah i think they've already got the data has been working on it so they took the took those images at the same time as them a seventeen year old memories working months they've got a bit of a break such a thank you brad feel question appreciate it and hope things well in indiana a it's in indiana summer i would imagine a which would be lovely i think now let's move onto simon's streets question he says great show which is he talking about it when the name i love astrophysics and the northern hama from fred anti ozzy i'm a from andrew i think he's telling you better accents doing relaxing doing odd identical do you oughta anyway 'em he's an amateur amateur physicist he said i just wanna try i handed a couple of questions well all all will put a caveat hey simon begin to answer part one part two we're going to review because we were just not in a position to give you an answer to that at the moment so why would they 'em the first question you've said it so singularity is i mentioned louis question mark if so are we talking quantum's kyle's hey let's assume physics doesn't totally breakdown if the singularity has no sauce by its momentum in position a a known to an ultimate precision hopes so to avoid heisenberg spinning in his grave can we say singularity have a degree of fuzzy in this it's a great question and a you know simon's probably as well qualified to give the answer is i am about let me have a shot fifty so was he talking about here with heisenberg heisenberg zona heisenberg right physicists to in i think what's the nineteen seventies maybe the twenties probably the twenties a plus elected what is now known as they heisenberg uncertainty principle which is well proven in quantum physics and that is the if you've got a popsicle you cannot in eastern no honoring position which is easy enough you know his position all you know it's momentum now the momentum is the product of massive speed so it's like saying you could know spayed or you could because we know the massively popsicles you know speed while you know his position but you can't know books with ultimate seventy hasso on this always gotta be and uncertainty if you measure the position precisely then the speed it is fuzzy we don't know quite well the speed is and vice versa if you measure the speed you you've got fuzzy position falling onto a what a salmon complete show or postulates from nice that's a singular americans hate to see pointing space way yes physics does break down a and and has a no die mentions it's laughable is a is a degree of fuzzy nece in the position on momentum off singularity and from my you know thinking about what little i know physics i think the answer is yes a black hole positions probably at some level on on knowable double a if you know the velocity of a black hole and you cannot she mentioned the velocity of a black hole by looking at the red shift to the line the database a you could probably mentioned the position a at some level of accuracy depending on what kind of telescope using whereabout see these that's it's exactly what happened with event horizon telescope we just we were just talking about very precise positioning of the instruments the determinant the position of the black hole but knowing both those two things with a high level of certainty he's probably not possible so yes i think senior lawrence's do have a degree of fuzzy this just as i do very very good and lost a thank you so i mean that's a great question he he goes on and says pay think fred thanks ray corresponding with me after my excitement about meeting a dime jocelyn built in l a and if you remember that but i i remember sending you only eight mile a quarter wall back sorry well yeah yeah love and he will try to answer paypal because we we we might ask you a question on the podcast but we do try to answer some of the online or we just you know acknowledge you send it i do i do try to get back to everybody when i can and i hope i don't miss anyone but if i do apologize but we're getting so many now it's very very hard to keep up and i mean i haven't got a secretary and i'd be a pretty high press secretary as it turns out so we do the best we can mean they should recruiter wannabe grandchildren that probably make it really good secretary i would and hostage shyness they wouldn't be a lot more talking then they show that struck a thank you to our 'em question news this week air inquisitors maybe brad and so i'm in a thank you for edits a just a lot of fun and i'll look forward to the very next one so do i andrew and i hope you have a great time with your grandchildren and and enjoy your rest and we'll catch you a very very soon fred watson and he's astronomers lodge and for me andrew dice clay thank you to everybody who's listening thank you to our patrons thank you to our social media followers

dan shack professor elon musk andrew fred watson south america thirty six thousand kilometers seventeen year hundred years twoday
Big Black Hole Announcement

Space Nuts | Astronomy, Space and Science News

52:48 min | 1 year ago

Big Black Hole Announcement

"Love this podcast. Support this show through the ACOSS supportively Joe. It's up to you. How much you give and there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now. Fifteen seconds guy internal. Ni- ignition sequence. Space Nuts. To! Radio. report it feels good. Hello once again for joining us on the space, nuts podcast episode, two hundred one, and thank you to all those people who sent his good wishes about achieving two hundred episodes. The three of you must have listened intently to know that it was as two hundred episode. We we appreciate the feedback air few people on various platforms. Says some NAS notes joining me as always. is Professor Fred. Watson Astronomer Lodge Hello Fred Andrew how you going? Your strident voice again. Thank you sir. Yes, good he yours too, and I hope you well still still in relation assume yeah, that's right, but all going well, we're. Just working from home. Carrying on carrying on you do. Yes absolutely and I was starting to say the the rules being relaxed in New South while so people are starting to venture out I think is. Is People being very cautious? But a lot of people taking advantage of the opportunity to visit, family and friends on a very very limited basis and maintain social distancing cetera down. It looks like whatever we've done to tile. Spread of the disease has worked very well in Australia, which is You know you gotta tip you to the authorities I now it was a hard sell, but tap pipe must have taken notice, and we've good cells down to less than a thousand active cases in the country now, which is just fantastic. Indeed and fingers crossed. That will keep going in that direction and thoughts are always with people in other parts of the world where things aren't going anywhere near as well. Yeah I I was looking at the statistics in the United. States today and I'm I'm gobsmacked to be honest I. Don't want to dwell on that, but g some of those states in America really in a bad way at the moment. But it's different for every country different rules different systems. Different capabilities seem to really be a factor as well but. He. We are not doing what we can to try and stem the todd now. Fred! We're going to talk about a quite a few exciting. Situations that have arisen one of which we've only been able to talk about now because it's been the subject of an embargo, and that's the European Southern Observatory's major announcement about a black hull. Can talk this because it's post embargo, but this is this has been sort of top secret right up to Wednesday, not which is bay, rather extraordinary and Another fascinating Yan has to do with the ice moon of Europa, which orbits Jupiter and we had spice private. They told me years ago taking selfies. on the of your riper and Jupiter and everything else that sort of flights around at the it's twenty year old data, but now we've been able to use up-to-date technology to take another. Look at it, and I'm guessing that found some interesting things. Speaking of your right, we've had a question from Adrian Crawford who has asked a specific question about Europa, so that'll tile well, and monique wants to talk about mining on the Moon the moon spinning the news this week. Seventy different countries certainly want to go back there. trouble with the moon is nobody owns it, and so this is going to turn into a scrum. Reckon so will. We'll look at all those issues today on the spice nuts podcast, but I this very exciting announcement by the. European, Southern Observatory about a blackhall which as I understand, it turns out to be the nearest one to earth, and it's not Sagittarius I. Exactly, that's right Terri say the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy. That's twenty five ish. Thousand Light Years Away. You know we seat in the direction of the Constellation. Secretaries but he's behind all the Dustin. Count that, but can be detected by ready West. Which is why it's called sanitary style. That's the name of the radio sauce. So this is a different story altogether and it kind of. Has Echoes Andrew something. We were talking about probably about three or four weeks ago. The idea that might be many black holes out there which don't reveal themselves by anything other than the way they disturb the orbits of stars nearby. They don't WanNa Chretien disc of swelling. materialists plumbing plummeting into them. And causing x rays and radio waves to be admitted. Just quiet. Quiescent props, the technical word, black holes, sitting there doing nothing, but minding their own business, but actually having a gravitational effect on nearby stars and exactly. Excuse me. That's exactly what this story is about. It comes from the European Southern Observatory. And actually this discovery was not made with one of the giant ape point to me to tell us scopes of the the Lt the very large telescope. It's actually one of the smaller ones. A two point, two two telescope SIA which is one of the two main. Sites at the European Southern Observatory runs in Chile. So astronomers using that telescope have been analyzing the motions of a star system, which is only a thousand light years away. It's basically you know galactic neighborhood, and You know easy easy to see in fact this. System can be seen with the naked eye. It's in the Southern Hemisphere constellation of telescopes. Telescope, which is. So I think it's In the Czech Republic and at the European Southern Observatory Self. Who've done this this work? And the really nice part of the story is the came as a surprise to the. To the investigators, one of the scientists says we were totally surprised when we realized that this is the first stellar system with a black hole that can be seen with the unaided eye. That's yeah. That's big news so what we got here. We've got a star. whose name is hr six, eight, one, nine, very elegant name, really for it, but these it's a double style. Okay, so that means a binary system once DA orbiting another. And on this program that they scientists working on was a study of double star systems, but what they were. Amazed to find was that the observations demonstrated that this was just a double style, not just a binary pag going around their common center of gravity that that is something else in the system. And basically one of the two visible style us. object that is not saying every forty days. Naturally the second stop kind of a little bit of the much greater distance from from this. So what what you've got is a mystery it. We've got this. Two Stars one of which as orbiting the PGA, but the one of the actually orbiting something else as well That's the visible date so. Another of the Cole Has A. Actually Dietrich Bader who's at. Ayso, He says the observations needed to determine the period of forty days had to be spread over several months. This was only possible. Thanks to those pioneering service, observing escape to which absorb observation may be easily style on behalf of scientists needing. That's a mode of operation that actually many as Strong. Out-country Austrailia have used since three years ago, a strategic partner of the European Southern Observatory, so not service mode observing means that if you need observations over a long period of time, you can't go and spend to his sitting in Lhasa in northern Chile, so you get the local stuff that to do the observations for you, and that's how this is being brought to the out so the. The the bottom line Andrew is once again. Here's a quote from one of the co-authors invisible object with a massive at least four times that of the Sun. which is what this had to be it can only be a black hole. Become anything else and soon so that is the smoking gun the orbit of this this the near the style to the black hole of this past. Spinning round every forty days. Around something four times as much as the sun has to be a black hole, an is the nearest, and the conclusion is a really interesting one. Because I'm let me read the from the. Press release if I can Andrew Stronger have spotted only a couple of dozen black holes in our galaxy today, nearly all of which strongly interact with their environment, and make their presence known by releasing powerful X rays, but scientists estimate the Dover the Milky Wise Lifetime, many more stars collapsed into black holes, the ended their lives, the discovery of a silent, invisible black hole in HR, six eight, one nine provides clues about where the many hidden black holes in the Milky Way might be. The must be hundreds of millions black holes out there, but we know about only very few knowing what to look for should put this in a better position to find them this. This isn't. Sorry go. Just to say might be the tip of a very exciting iceberg. This coupe be the first of many that found by this technique. So this is not only the discovery of the nearest black hole to earth. It's also the discovery of a way of finding them. Because of the way we found this one. Is that what the side? That's exactly right? That's. Facts. Going to say that's a giant leap forward. Really is a giant leap forward I. Mean we actually talked about something similar to this? Probably four or five months ago. another similar discovery, but I think this one is the one that really clinches it We've got this way of discovering black holes by looking closely. At the Way Stars Excuse me stars in Binary. Systems actually orbit. It's a very powerful technique, and I think you and will be talking about to allow more over the years. Yes, I surprised. They've only found. You know a dozen or so in our. Immediate vicinity over the years, but as we have discussed, these things are very elusive, but it Naseem said I've I've revealed to us away of of now finding them, and we might be finding them in their hundreds or thousands in into the future We also talked in the past about the size of Blackhall's I think you did allude to the the size of this one but just. Give us a reminder. How how big is this one? Did you say yeah? Four Times the mass of The Sun? And that sort of sit in the black hole sizing chart. It, is Andrew under member way. You heard this I. It is a standard black. Oh. that. We haven't really had a definition for them. Have we No. Trade in the world of astronomy, we referred to stella mass black holes because. About out the same as a style, and you know you know again, if talked about this before we find black holes in basically two different castle, stellar mass, black holes, kind of like this may be up to ten or twenty times the mass of the sun, a the supermassive black holes which. Up to ten or twenty billion times the mass of the Sun So. Very little in between and finding new objects in between his another of the challenges. What you might call intermediate must black holes because they must be out there. And we think that they look principle in the census of globular clusters. Those things that are probably the remnants have galaxy have been gobbled up by bigger galaxies like the Milky Way so. There is a picture building up about giving astronomers, a method of finding stallion mass black holes the not active that the not emitting xrays because of the accretion disks. That's a really powerful step forward, and it comes about have to say once again because of the signs of spectroscopy. You're looking for that doppler. Wobble the thing that reveals planets around stars, the idea that a planet pools star slightly backwards and forwards. Reveals the presence of the planet the deplorable technique, if a new since nineteen ninety-five but the. This is an extension of that in a way, succumb of doppler technique, but for things much bigger than planets for black hole, so it's a very powerful why finding them. Ought to submit a paper or a an application whatever it is, we do. To. Whoever is in charge of? Naming objects, and suggests that these because standard mass black holes we ought to do. What do we know an astronomer? WHO's got context mobility do that for? Me, yeah I was going to suggest that. This would be the. International Astronomical Union, wouldn't it? We'd have to. And they would say well bots very nice, but. For Them! Wickham Stellenbosch black girls. Italian, much thing. I think as far as spice Nazis concerned. Standard Black Holes Andrew. Call them a standard blackhall from here on if we were. This! But that varies from country to country to. This is fabulous news. Yeah, that'd be a heck of a lot more to learn and This is propaganda, some chains dragging for a little while finding a a standard blackhall, so close to Earth, and did you say it was observable with the naked eye? Was that what I heard? Yeah, that's right a visible to the naked eye I. Don't have a to magnitude, which is a technical term use for the brightness of Stars It's certainly you know. It's probably about fifty zero six, which is Roundabout the you know the limits of visibility with the naked eye, maybe fifth magnitude. So. Would this be a good candidate for? A photograph. They'll be many of those. But, of course, all it shows up as in a photograph is a single point of light. Because You don't see any of these structure the binary structure of it because that's only revealed by the fact that you can watch the way the stars move around with a spectograph that checking de la cities as we call it. So, you know the this a stop. It will be any image taken of that part of the sky with with modern digital cameras. And it'll be. It'll be quite bright because he's a naked eye star, but he won't show anything different about it to to. You know to the casual. Luca, it's only when he saw analyzing the motion of the component styles that you realize that there is something very very special to open this. Yeah, we're on eighties. Six, eight, one nine. Remember that Rotterdam the number. It's A. Wonderful Discovery, and I'm sure we'll get to talk about it again real soon. You're listening to space nuts with your host Andrew Dunkley and the good Professor Fred Watson. All space nuts once again. Shouting at to patrons who support the spice nuts podcast with a few dollars a month into the kitty. We appreciate your support, and we greatly encourage it to bet it's not mandatory, but if you would like to investigate the possibility of being patron, you can do so on the Patriot website on dot com slash spice nuts, and if you think that's something, you'd like to do great if not, that's fine, too. We are not going to hold a gun to your head or a Stella Black Blackhall or anything like that I try on. Standard like. Patriot dot com slash space nuts, and and we would like to thank those of you who are chipping in to to this podcast alive and well. We greatly appreciate your support. Now Fred, let's move onto the next topic of interest in this one is very interesting, too. Because this Deitz back twenty odd years when Galileo was hanging around Jupiter during the fat, taking a few peaks and they did take photographs of Europa the ice, Moon. but here we are twenty years later or thereabouts. and. Ivory analyzed some of the data because you know the photographic technology we have. Today's much more advanced. And I'm guessing while La. They've come up with a little bit more detail about this amazing little world. Indeed, that Sarah, and so this is not accidental. Know it's not just people saying we'll have another look at those data from. From from Galileo. This is all about preparing for the next mission to Jupiter Jupiter Moons There is one called the Europa Clipper. is now approved the to check that? Within the next few years, there's another mission juice that you could try see moons. Probe which I think he's also on the I love the name of that one. Your? Moods. Does, so these are. That will give us much more detail about the icy moons in of course. As as as well known in the relax the question that we're going to talk about in a few minutes. Europa is one of the moons of the outer. Solar system that has the structure with a rocky Cole a liquid water ocean over the top of it, and then over the top of that a solid ice crossed. Europa. Especial in the ice crossed is probably one of the youngest surfaces in the entire solar system. A estimated to be between forty ninety million years old now, let sounds like a long time, but that for a for planet of a World Light Europa is very very young. The cratered surface of the of the moon, for example, the Southern Hemisphere at the move, which is heavily crowded is more like. Three to four. While more like three point eight to four point. Four, point two billion years old dates from a time when. Objects were hurling through this other system shing into everything. What is called the late heavy bombardment? The. Surface of Europa is not like that at all. In fact, there is, there are no discernible crisis on it, but what there are is are the markings and the the classic. Galileo spacecraft images from nineteen ninety-eight. Show these basically the show, the surface that is criss crossed by Brownish Markings, many of them very linear. And those mocking. The original images. It's not really possible to distinguish what you're saying. They just look like Brown markings now that Brown color a thought to be what happens when you've got a briny liquid likely. Almost like seawater. Filtering through the ocean beneath and then being irradiated by the Sun's radiation. Experiments were done a few years ago. That showed if if you've got a water that's rich in salts and minerals, a new irradiated with ultraviolet light and the kind of. Particle bombardment we get from the cellmate tons. Brown just like these the streets, so but those original images didn't really show much detail, and that's why this is such a great story because these at what we're talking about. Today is a re a reanalysis of those images by a team at Shaw. Actually at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory led by Think Planetary Geologists Cynthia Phillips. And that as you know a a fantastic project to bring modern computer. Algorithms to on images that we looked at and said yet great, fantastic stuff and then put away for twenty two years. What they've done is they've shown that. The terrain on Europa is not just an ice covering with a few black Brown streaks Scott, all or variations in it. So. the resolutions quite. Revealing things as small as. Four hundred and sixty meters across thereabouts. And they are. The detail is now I. think quite staggering. There is on the Jet Propulsion Laboratory website. There are some of the reprocessed images, and there are three different kinds of terrain that have been identified which was really recognized before. and I guess the first is what's called the chaos terrain, and that sort of tells it like it is It's like just lumps of solid material. Cut Often Colored Brown. With which looks just like you've taken a liquid filled a Pug, a glass bowl, fill it with ice. Crystals which Kinda than an input in the fridge, so they all partly freeze over, and then so the stereo stereotype so these these sorry ice cubes around the Nice Crystals, the all tumble all around. We've seen something similar Andrew on the Dwarf Planet. Pluto yeah. Put Planet does this exactly the same terrain and the mission scientists for the new euro projects think that this this chaos terrain on Europa comes about because of exactly that that the surface is being fractured. Remembering title forces from the planet itself that pushing and pulling this service, and you get the stuff breaking up into relatively small chunks, which then tipped around just like these ice cubes and giving this essentially. What's called chaos terrain? To more different features have been recognized a both really interesting and similar in that both long linear features, maybe a few kilometers wide few tens of meters high. The ridges any way few tens of meters. But but thousands of kilometres long, so the two different things ridges, which is where as I've just. Explained you've got a long. Ridge of material just a few tens of mates, they about hundred meters or so high. which are probably brought about when to Kinda plight device compressed together, and so you get a pushing up of the materials they collide at remembering. The surface is kind of emotional time dotcom bust with what they banned, not rock bands or anything like that far. Different Kulla. These are the opposite. These look as though there were two of ice stretched apart. An Isis grown in between them. Because what you've got is a abroad region. Probably ten tens of kilometers wide which. Is Very very smooth with the kind of Ridge on either side of it so hard to explain these two described these in words, but it's worth having a look at the pictures. The the reprocessed images of Europa which is the buzzwords. Put into the jet propulsion the bar trees. Website JPL DOT NASA Dot Gov. Okay. How big is you riper? It is bigger than our moon if I remember rightly, it's not the biggest of the Galileo to don't have the number numbers kilometers. Off the top of my head, it's very easy to find the biggest of Galileo's of the moons of Jupiter. The biggest moon in the solar system is made. But the but Galileo himself not the space craft astronomer discovered. These full allows moons. Ganymede Euro Callisto Eeo. You always the smallest county may the biggest so that you are. You're Oprah's between Ganymede. The beauty of them is that if you've got? Half decent. Pair of binoculars or a half day sent telescope you can, you can actually say these from your backyard. I, think our member. years and years ago being able to do that because I account, remember the circumstances, but Jupiter must've been. In a good position for us to observe and got some amazing photos off of the moons. Opening Jupiter with the naked eye, and that's just such an amazing thing to be able to say from such vast distance. The so stupid is coming up to be very favorable now for observing with small telescopes It's rising light in the evening on the old southern earlier until eventually. It's what we call a position where it's in the sky all night and it's. Kind of closest. But yet binoculars just about show. Jupiter is a disk. You really need higher power, and which is ten, Pyla. Ten magnification thereabouts The problem was those is holding them steady. The fixable something. Which? Potentially show you. The moons of Jupiter a small telescope is much better on especially, if it's fixed on Ella standoff something, then you can see, you can really see the from not tonight. The way these moons changing position. Which of course is what Galileo not? Stellian sixteen ten and Technical among the pigeons, because it was clear that not everything rotated around the earth and so. And, didn't he get into trouble that one? You're going into trouble. Okay so we? We've reanalysed the daughter and we've might always discoveries and we've got much more data Alabama you ripe. I think it would probably be a good idea to just dovetail straight into the question we have about your for. Adrian Crawford Adrian Rights Hello Space Nuts I had question I did now. If you wanted to answer now, we don't want to answer anyone. Is An ocean planet possible? We actually tackled that Wakotola Guy, so we've. We've answered the question. And I think I remember you saying Fred that the earth was in fact, the notion planet, one stage but then he goes on to ask. Is it possible that there is ocean life on Europa? Jupiter's Moon I was just curious if you. Knew the answer to my questions just want to say that I really enjoy listening to your podcast. You continue on. On with your awesome work, thank you I dream. That's. To say so Yeah Fred, do you? Do you think you right by I? Think has been identified as a a very potential candidate for containing life as has enceladus, I think. So yeah, I think the answer. The question is yes, but I think we OUGHTA were elaborate a bit more on that yet. It's a great question and you're absolutely right on during this perhaps One Euro per is certainly out there among the top two three candidates for. Finding living organisms elsewhere in the solar system. The problem is out defined them. Because if you've got a global ocean with a global ice layer on top, which might be twenty to thirty kilometers. Sake, you do have to worry about how you might probe down to find out what's going off first thing you do. Is You rent a space trawler? Selling need that. Maybe a space icebreaker. Probably. The ethical questions. You don't really want to show up the Oxygen Europa. The. European, pretty remembering correctly. has shown evidence of plumes of ice coming from the surface. Exactly as we've seen with Enceladus, the moon of Jupiter and of course the Cassini spacecraft flew through the plugs allies. Under told US Watson it. revealed all kinds of very intriguing things, molecular hydrogen, which suggests that. The The water has been in contact with geothermal vents at the bottom of this ocean The you know the. In all kinds of organic materials, all of which suggests that certainly for enceladus. That may be processes in place that would give rise to living organisms in the bottom of the ocean, a bit like the hydrothermal vents. We find here. Knowing that Europe has a very similar structure to intelligence. He's actually near to the. A little bit warmer. Although the surface is still in the minus hundred fifty. Hundred, sixties. The at the does suggest that maybe. That there is potential finding living organisms. In the oceans of Europa and one way of doing that will be to do kind of what Cassini has done on. Saturdays A to send a spacecraft I think the The Europa Clipper I think is designed to do. They still orbit the. Moon Europa and actually fly through plumes of material being released from Europa's polls. And analyze that because what you've got there is. Excuse me free sample of the ocean frozen. It's just ice crystals, but if you cannot allies those ice crystals, you can find out all kinds of things about the environment that they came from and say a lot of money on on an icebreaker weren't. Exactly although I'm remembering my conversation with. Linda, Spilka, who's WHO's the Cassini mission? Scientist told to her last year. Because, she was over to give some talks towards the end of the year she's working on, something called a ills, which is an enceladus I'm not sure what it stands for, but basically a thing shape like a snake, which is robotic, and you drop it on the surface of Enceladus, and he finds its way down the cracks. In enceladus is is and has a look in the ocean of enceladus to see what's down that maybe you could do something. With. Similar. Yeah so I think one of the reasons why people are concentrating on Europe. The moment is is much nearer. ENCELADUS It's a much quicker journey to get from Earth to Jupiter is to get from us to Saturn so we'll. We might find results coming soon. A- Although of course there are plans to to revisit to enceladus matters as to what's going on to. Ikea is interesting. you confident that they could be life in the waters of of Europa. Excuse me. I. Think I've. This to you two weeks running. Okay look how yeah I think is a really good chance that we'll find stuff that. The. Quite different from what we what we have here on Earth would still be classified as living organisms, I think he's unlikely that we will find Fisher. Creams Shrimp Brine. Nothing Irwin's. Dental! And On the But the idea of microbial life. My guess is that we're gonNA find within the next decade that yes, microbial life does exist elsewhere in the universe. Simply because all the all the signs point to that, but we haven't found it yet. Yeah, so the drake equation will. Change if we find life on another world beyond their own so. Just. In case, someone brings that back up again. Win Wins, Europa, clipper due to get. I don't know and I don't know whether they can go to launch date yet. The. Anita check up on that. Let me see if I can do that now. Andrew just to give you an answer to your question. I would Scott look into it as well and NAM. Let's. Let's take on. Notice and took. For a future date. all right but yes yeah, the potential does exist philosophy on Europa. the moon of Jupiter, and potentially enceladus as well and just as a final of statement on this Fred other any other. Life candidates in `Sola System. While the other one apart from the two week mentioned the other. Really strong candidate is Titan, told Time. The. Key knew what was going to say. The the biggest moon of Saturn. The only moon in the whole solar system with a thick atmosphere and this curious you know landscape of of lakes, and say's made of liquid natural gas with rocks that it water ice, but once again there is a notion underneath that motorized so. That the all bets are off without the could find anything titan. You could find microbial life that lives at minus ninety Celsius Lake of of liquid natural gas. The breathes hydrogen. Essentially that's one of the things that's been proposed that that will be extraordinary, just extraordinary. Nice life form yeah and again we. Want to do potentially some sort of test to see if it. Exists in the same plane as Lav on earth, or if it's a totally independent and self evolving entity that's. Let's? Go to, leaps ahead. We've already discovered life beyond earth. Is it the same as lawfulness has he goes. Genetic is exactly. That's the next big question before. But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, but thank you. Thank you I dreamed for the question potentially. Yes, is the answer on both points we we answered. You question about water planets last week. You're listening to the space and that's podcast with Andrew. Dunkley and Fred what's. Now, let's take a little break and find out more about our sponsor. Express VPN rated number one by tech writer. This is the one I use I've been using it for a couple of years and I love it when I joined expressive APA, now that will brand new new to the market, but I read a lot of reviews and did a lot of comparisons, and there was just something about the business model that I particularly liked and couple years down the track on asleep can't complain. Their interfaces very easy to use their service is second non. I've had to contact them a couple times about certain things that I wanted to do, and I were brilliant, so you may be wondering. Why do need a VPN at all? It's all about privacy Do you really want big tech companies, governments and others knowing? What's going on with your online activity? Even if you're having nothing to hide? It just feels downright creepy. I think you'll agree. And governments are getting more and more interested in what you're doing every day and so yeah, protecting your privacy's what VPN is all about. And how often do you run across websites that you want to get information from only define that the blocked? This is becoming an increasing problem, but expressed faith in some that problem for you. Now. If you got to ask special URL, you'll see quite a list of things. This service can help you with things. You might never have thought of before as I say. It's the one I use secure fast, and it just works. So. Protect yourself online today and find out more about how to get three months. Free at try express VPN DOT. com slash space that's T. R. Y. E., X., P. R. E. S.. S., P., N. DOT, com slash space. For three months free with a one year package, try express VPN DOT. com slash space to learn more, and you'll find the link details in the show notes, and on our website now back to the show. Dan! Nuts. And hello to all our social media space, nutters who follow us on facebook which you can do at facebook dot com slash space nuts podcast. You can also join the space, not not podcast group, which is a group of spice, not the spice listeners that talk to each other on that particular platform, and now we're getting new members every weekend. nothing is. Somewhere ran. A thousand people in both groups, which is just fantastic, and if you're youtube, follow, we are there. We are on Instagram, and of course we've got Aaron website at bots. Es said dot com slash spice nuts. We cannot catch up on episodes as well you can also. Go to the space nuts shop, which is getting more and more goodies. into the into the show, so. You can take a look at all of that. And of course sets that's one of the several platforms where you can post questions to us as well. Now, we have a question Fred from Monique in Sydney. Who is asking about the moon? I have a question. That was actually put to me in a discussion about the mining of the moon. If we're planning on mining the moon, will the amounts of white being brought back into our solar system. I effect the massive planet because of we are accumulating white. That wasn't already found on the Planet Bay, have some kind of effect on the rotational position of planet and see. How would they even think about bringing These mind goods back down to Earth as it is quite the already quite a dangerous mission getting humans back into our atmosphere Thanks for your wonderful podcast. I've seven episodes left before I'm completely caught up and I plan to start again. That's great awesome. You Might WanNa. Tell us what happened but that's That's my a three part question about mining on the moon. Now we have touched on this before, and the moon is in the news this week because there seems to be a the new spice Rice to get back there, and that involves the United States and China and India and Japan I. Think are are can't think. Of The plies involved because the moon is being looked at as the platform for Mars mission. but the discussion surrounding the moon in terms of. Potential! Mining exploits have certainly been around. Haven't fried. The half and it's. Interesting to reflect on, the might find the useful. Let's questions because that's that sort of. Let's just talk about these things so. If you planning mining on the Moon, what are you? What are you gonNA look for and the one that I suppose is. High up in the popular imagination is the idea of mining helium three, which is an Isotope Pavilion There's not much of a on the moon, but there's virtually none of it here on Earth but it could. This is not yet been proven, but it could form the basis of clean nuclear energy It's would allow you to do something cold. Nuclear Fusion in doesn't release dangerous radiation, so he could have a desktop nuclear reactor. That's the certainly the dream of science, fiction and easiest. Physics beyond to support it as well. Helium three? Mining. Does happen would be. It would have to come back to us because that's what you want to use it, but they met. The amount of being would be being mind. Microscopic compared with either the massive the moon all the mass of the Earth. That will be true of anything that you were. You digging up on the bone. Because we humans yet we can make big holes in the in the ground, some of which are very ugly indeed, but ends of the dimensions of the planet or satellite like the move they make no difference to the physical promises that more likely to affect the atmosphere A. With things like fossil fuel, burning and things of that, so that's definitely globally fact, but the the the rotation of the planet. He Toby and things of that sort have a has no effect tool. So that actually covers off the I two of of leaks questions. Yeah I suppose you'd have to bring back I massive amount of material like. A huge percentage of the moon's mass would have to be removed and put on earth to make any difference. I would imagine. Yeah and that's and that would be physically physically impossible, yeah. In terms of. You know any kind of conventional spaceflight. That's absolutely right. So what's more likely to happen is what you mind on the moon us on the move. whether that's minerals for fabrication. Maybe fiber catching of spacecraft policies, one of the things that people envisage with asteroid mining that if you find. Metal Metals on on an asteroid Then you can basically use those in space to build, but spacecraft which would stay in space. You don't have to take things back to make them. And then put them back into space, and like I like science fiction. I envisage a time. We mega spacecraft to be built in orbit. Yes, that's right. I think I would agree with that I. think that sounds. Future in space in fact. A great believer in large. Rotating self gravitating. Spacecraft for. Full fulltime hobby session by humans. Bedroom deal than taking. For example. And actually a bit more control, but also different story. The other thing, though at until, yes, kind of covers off the final one of the League's questions. How would they even think about bringing this mind? goods back to Earth as the dangerous mission getting humans back into our atmosphere absolutely right so most of it you use. Either in space or on the moon, but maybe the the more significant. Resource on the moon is out. She Wolter Allies because that is itself a very very valuable commodity in space. I'm Walter we know is existing hydrated rocks on the moon, but also. In the moon's polls, their crisis, which never ever see the Selm and are known to have reserves of simply ice in the bottom of them now. Could. Use that is A to make water, which is very simple process. If you've got these you need solar radiation of course, but but you can also a electrolytes it. You can decompose it into. Oxygen and hydrogen. Which is you? Rocket fuel so I is a very valuable commodity for the idea of further exploration of the solar system, because the moon's gravity is much less than the earth. If you can get the water from the moon tune into rocket fuel, you don't have to lift it off the surface and that makes things much much easier for journeys Domas for perhaps future space craft to the asteroid belt beyond. That you know it. It is a real possibility I think maybe twenty thirty years. We'll be saying water extraction from the polls of the move. That water be used to propel us to the outer regions of the system mazing Chris. You don't have to go to the moon to get rocket fuel of liquor cabinet and you know everybody's welcome. Different kinds of rocket fuels and once once social distancing. We'll all be. Indeed. manege thank you for the question. She a bit worried that it would sound dumb, but now either opens up so much dialogue and I suppose one thing I did mention that her question prompted in my mind is is ownership I mean. You can't just go out there and start digging halls really. Owns the moon in this treaties in place supposed to protect goalies, things, but there are question marks for that at the moment, because of the of the rice back to the moon for always raisins, although those have been dealt with so you're absolutely right that no nobody can own. The embodied in the outer space. Treaty nine hundred sixty seven. and. You Know Nineteen Seventy S. A, addenda but. The. That has been recent legislation passed suddenly in the USA in the UK and also looks Luxembourg which basically says that if you go to the moon. Dig? Up something and bring it back. It's yours Even though you can't stay claim, you can't say while this bit of the moons mind. You, but if you go bring stuff back than that belongs to, you, said pragmatic outcome based on I guess the main, mainly the experience of of NASA bringing back three, hundred, thousand, three hundred eighty kilograms of rocks and soil from the in the nineteen sixties and seventies, a new concept Fred because that was exactly how the gold rush worked. Yeah, that's right, yes, and so. In a sense that kind of sparks spice rice because. You cut linked linked to any of it, but you can bring stuff back from his. Got To get there and the same is true asteroids as well it would you know you'd have the sense of deal with an asteroid? Ninety all right. Thank you. Great Question I do have one more question without notice, Fred and Lo and behold. You're going to be shocked but I can answer this one myself. Terrific this one. This one came from twitter while listening to episode two hundred deed I. Hear Willie Wag Tile at the start of the program. Yes, you did you did indeed and for those who is saying what? The hell is a willie bag, tyler, it's a small, black and white native bird. It's an inspectable, and it has a long slender rigid tile which it wags, and it's designed to stir up insects, so it wags tile, and then spins around and catches the insects. and. That's why we call it a Willy Wag tile. Now it's biological name was logical time. It's probably something much more complicated than Willie Wag tile, but yet if they're a lovely little burden I have this very nice sort of little twitter, and it's quite pissing, and yes, microphones will fred's. I think it was picked up by the Williamsburg Towel in Alaska. Things out hangs around outside. My study window, which is very very territorial like. Anything. Which reminds me the other day last fraud I was standing at the front of my place, and I saw what I thought were five crows flying high in the sky, and as they got close to me, a realize that will five Wedge Tailed Eagles name. They've often see eagles in groups of more than two. So they were five of them, but my neighborhood magpies saw them to. And he went after the and he caught the tile Inda. And then. The funny thing was he came back old proud of himself did a did a victory sweep. Believe it or not Fred, but as he landed on the Lamppost at the front of my house, he got attacked by a pay we. Just. Stood there gobsmacked watching all these birds go to each other. It was just remarkable. Nightjar. It's. Fantastic and just a postscript. REPEA- Dura Lukaku free. I think he's the worst. He's Willie Whitetail I would have thought really swag. Tell us would have been. Done not be happy with that or just for just frayed. brought. We're going to wrap it up. Thank you, Fred Much. It's been great fun as always. Still can't do. We'll speak again soon. We will indeed Fred Watson. Astronomer Lodge part of the Space Knots Tame as you and thank you so much for listening, and we do enjoy your your comments and your questions and any input it all. On whatever platform and we do, look for your company again from Andrew Dunkley signing off. We'll see you next week on another edition of the space, nuts podcast. To this. podcast include. PODCASTS WHO GO PODCASTS spotify? IHEART Radio Info your favorite podcast. You can also stream on demand and. This is another quality gas production from dot? com.

Fred Andrew Fred Jupiter Planet Andrew Dunkley NASA European Southern Observatory Professor Fred Watson Scientist Galileo Adrian Crawford Europe ACOSS Professor Fred Brown
10: The First Supermassive Black Holes

SpaceTime with Stuart Gary

26:32 min | 2 years ago

10: The First Supermassive Black Holes

"This is space time series twenty to ten for broadcast on the first February twenty nineteen coming up on space time new clues about the creation of the first supermassive black holes a last ditch effort to try and save the opportunity mouths Rover and physicists looking for a successor to the world's largest atom smasher, the large Hadron collider all that. And more coming up on space time. Welcome to space time. We'd Stewart Gary. A new study suggests that the very early universe. And we're talking just after the big bang third implant a two billion years ago may have seen conditions in which normal staff. Mission was overtaken by the birth of monstrous supermassive black holes her findings reported in the journal nature. Also suggested these gigantic black holes may be far more common across the universe than previously thought. Black holes are the most intense, gravity wills in the universe. They regions of infinite density in zero volume regions with the gravitational police, oh, strong that nothing not even light can escape stars planets. Gas clouds and other matter attracted to the black hole by intense, gravity starts, swirling around the black hole. Integration disc like water draining out of a sink material in the equation is crush stretched and ripped apart at the subatomic level in the presence, releasing vast amounts of. Of energy before passing a point of no return and called the event horizon and falling forever into the black hole. Singularity some of the superheated matter and the Christian disc is deflected along powerful. Magnetic field lines away from the event horizon out towards the black hole spin axis where it's exhilarated to relativistic speeds forming intense jit's could quasars which are the brightest known objects in the universe shining out like beacons visible in the night sky, more than thirty billion light years away, small stellar mass black holes a form by the death of some of the most massive stars in the universe in powerful explosions called supernova supermassive black holes, which millions to billions of times larger a found at the centers of most if not all galaxies. However, we don't know how these monster black holes formed now new supercomputer simulation suggests that when galaxies assemble extremely rapidly. And sometimes very violently instead of forming stars. The process can lead to the formation of extremely massive black holes in these rig alexy's normal star formation is disrupted and black hole. Formation takes over if true. It means massive black holes in dense, Dallas regions that are growing rapidly. Turning upside down, the long accepted belief that massive black hole. Formation was limited to regions bombarded by powerful radiation from the abide galaxies the key criteria to determine anyway, massive black holes formed during the universe is infancy relates to the rapid growth of pre collected guess clouds that are the forerunners of all present day galaxies. One of the study's authors associate professor John wires from Georgia Tech says there what this means is that most supermassive black holes have a common origin forming this newly-discovered scenario dunk matter collapses into halos that are the gravitational blue for galaxies and early rapid growth of these halos prevented the formation of stars that would have competed with black holes for gaseous matter flowing into this area. Why says the simulations of uncovered a totally new mechanism that spock's the formation of massive black holes in particular dark matter halos instead of just considering radiation. Astronomers need to look at how quickly the halos grow. How the dog matters distributed and how gravity affects that forming? A massive black hole requires being in a Ray region. With an intense convergence of matter when the research team, I discovered these black off formation certain in this immunizations were stumped, the previously accepted paradigm was that massive black holes could only form expose the high levels of nearby radiation. Make it impossible for matter to form you stars. However is the author's dove deeper. They saw that these sites were undergoing a period of extremely rapid growth. The violent and turbulent nature of the rapid assembly. The brutal crushing together of the galaxies foundations during galaxy birth all work to prevent all star formation from occurring. And instead led to the perfect conditions needed for. The creation of a supermassive black hole earlier theories relied on intense ultraviolet radiation from the by galaxies to inhibit the formation of new stars in the black off forming halo, and while ultra-violet radiation is still a factor. The new computer simulation show. It's not the dominant factor. Then you computer models were based on the renaissance simulation. Sweet a seventy terabyte data set created between two thousand eleven and twenty fourteen to help scientists understand how universal Volve jury. It's early years to learn more about specific regions where massive blackouts will likely to develop the researchers examined the simulation data finding ten specific data halos that should've form stars given the masses, but only contained dense gas cloud. They then re simulated to these halos each of their two thousand four hundred light years across at much higher resolution in order to understand the details of what's happening in them some two hundred and seventy million years after the big bang. Why? Says it was in these overly dense regions of the universe that black hole. Suddenly began forming the dark matter creates most of the gravity, and then the guests falls into that gravitational potential work in either form stars or a massive Blackhall. The simulations allowed the oldest zoom in and observe. The very earliest stages of the gravitational assembly of this pristine gas composed mostly of hydrogen and helium and code matter leading to the formation of the first stats and galaxies. In fact, the resolution the simulation was so good. It allowed the scientists to see turbulence in the inflow of gas and clumps of matter forming as the Blackhawks precursors began to condense and spin, and they growth rate was dramatic. Astronomers observed supermassive black holes that had grown to around a billion solar masses in just eight hundred million years a process requiring any tense convergence of mass in that region. Another discovery with these types of halos, still quite rare may still be more common. Than previously thought enough to produce most of the supermassive black holes in the universe today. The authors now hoping to expand their computer simulations in order to see how these monstrous black holes will evolve into the future anytime, I'll tell I'm Stewart Gerry this is space time. Nassar sending you sets the commands to try and force its mouth opportunity Rover to respond the six we'll go kart. Sized Rover went silent on June the tenth as a global dust. Storm invoked the red planet for months on end blocking out the sunlight needed. The charge opportunities batteries Oppy as its fictionally called by its mission manages as remained silent ever since despite the dust dome. Having long cleared away opportunity most likely experienced the low powerful emission clock. Fold and an up lost time of fault all trace back to the loss of power and the draining of the batteries mission manages expected the Rover to return to full operational status. Wants its batteries were recharged by the solar panels. But the road is being solid ever since ignoring more than six hundred calls from earth mission managers think the most likely reason is that dust from the storm is covered the solar panels, preventing them from receiving sunlight and charging the batteries not. Really strong mash and winds which usually begin to blow around November would have glowed away that dust but still there's been no contact necessary. Even tried we've been bit commands designed to nudge the Rover to send a response. Once the road is powered up, again, even if it's intermission clocks felt because of the storm, but still Oppy has not phoned engineers with Nasr's digs space communications network have now devised a new set of more powerful commands, which they hope will force opportunity to make contact with earth. The new commands designed to deal with the possibility that opportunities to expand radios have both felt for some reason there that's unlikely mission managers running out of options trying pretty well. Anything than you commands, we'll hopefully force opportunity to both respond and change communication systems. However, there are now reports of fresh dust storm activity Tom to kill mid is west of opportunities current location, and while that's primarily tracking south it's nevertheless lodge enough to be. Effected to increase the tau that is the OSI at opportunities location over the next few days this last ditch effort to bring the little Rover back to life comes just a day after NASA celebrated the fifteenth anniversary of opportunities landing on Mars spacecraft. Touchdown the Mary d any plan. Many of the mash equator on January the twenty fourth two thousand and four for what should have been a ninety day mission opportunity had been launched from the Cape Canaveral air force station in Florida three weeks after its twin Rovers spirit on July the seventh two thousand and three spirited touchdown through before opportunity on the other side of the planet in Gusev crater spirit continued operating for two thousand two hundred and sixty nine days until finally getting bogged in a sand dune with solar panels pointy away from the sun, it said its final message back to work on the twenty second of March twenty ten more than six years after landing, of course, Oppy continued operating much longer covering well of the five thousand. And three hundred days on the Martian surface. Examining rocks and minerals and traveling more than forty five kilometers to its current location perseverance valley, a galley leading off the rim of indicator. You're listening the space time, I'm Stewart, Gary. Okay. Let's take a break from our to talk about new sponsor MOVA Globes. These Globes are really cool. And they great conversation starters or anything like me, you want the whole collection of the science ones because they've got all the planets, asteroids and moons there as well. It's all really cool. So just what I'm over glowed. Well, they rotating Globes powered by using little photovoltaic sills and magnets north to provide movement. So there's no need for batteries or messy power chords. And they're available in forty different designs, including world maps, the outer space themes are mentioned before as well as famous artworks in sporting rotates. The outer a space collection fitches graphics provided by Nassar JPL, including planets, moons, asteroids, and even constellations they're so cool even Ilan Moscow won the MAs one I believe which is sort of rather appropriate considering always carries right now. So they clearly make a really great gift with sort of person who has everything. Almost everything he can check out the whole ranch for yourself and see well fusses about just go to Moldova Globes dot com forward slash space time that way they'll know you came from us and you'll be supporting our show. That's motor sport 'em Lovie. A and of course, we do have a special offer for you. That's a space time listener, we'll give you ten percent of any purchase. You make just by using that euro, WWW dot Merv Globes dot com forward slash space time and don't forget to enter the coupon code space time at the checkout. That's WWW dot MOVA. Globes dot com forward slash space time and use the check our code space time. And now it's back to our show. This is space time with student. Gary soon the European organization for nuclear researches on plans for a successor to its large Hadron collider, the world's most powerful paddock accelerator. The proposed. New atom smasher would be some four times larger and six times more powerful than the current large. Hadron collider and cost between ten and twenty two billion dollars to construct the future circle. Collide is collaboration. Team says the new facility would take particle physics Fabio on the horizon of the current large Hadron collider in the process significantly expanding. Science's knowledge of matter in the universe. The ultimate goal is to build a one hundred kilometers superconducting proton accelerator ring with an energy of one hundred Tera electron volts and beyond meaning an order of magnitude more powerful than the large Hadron collider. The new facility would provide electron positron pro. It on proton, and I on iron collisions at unprecedented energies and intensities offering the possibility of electron proton and electron ion collisions as well. The discovery of the Higgs bows on the large Hadron collider in two thousand twelve opened a new path of research pets because the Higgs could be a door to new fundamental physics. The Higgs is an elementary particle acting through a Higgs field to give all the other particles their mass. That's why some members of the press, of course, the God particle. The new facility would move scientists to the Nick step in understanding the Higgs properties. Any would hope scientists understand how the Higgs interacts with other Higgs particles the different options being explored by the future. Sick. Clyde is collaboration team will offer unique opportunities to study the nature of The Hague's the new particle accelerator? Could also explore the role of electro weak symmetry breaking in the history of the universe. That's when the electromagnetic and the weak nuclear forces split apart. It would allow scientists to access unprecedented. Entity Scouse looking for new massive particles. It would collide have the ions sustaining a rich heavy ion physics program to study the state of matter in the early universe, and it would start to tackle new physics beyond the standard model things like diet matter and dark energy, and the a symmetry of matter of antimatter, none of which can be explained by the standard model of particle physics, which is the foundation stone of modern physics building such a massive particle accelerator will be done in various stages. Firstly there'd be a highly minosity ninety two three hundred and sixty five Giga electron electron positron machine such a Kalat that would be a very powerful factory making it possible to take new reprocesses and measure, the known paddock was with precisions. Never achieved before these more precise. Measurements would in turn allow five greatest sensitivity to possible tiny deviations from the standard muddles expectations, which could be a sign of new physics beyond the standard model the cost of the initial light circular electron as. Detroit Kaleida would be somewhere around nine billion euros. That includes five billion years for the civil engineering work needed for a one hundred kilometer long tunnel. But such a collider could serve the worldwide physics community for up to twenty years. The new physics program could start by twenty forty at the end of the high luminosity large Hadron collider the cost estimate for a superconducting proton machine which would use the same. Tell would be around fifteen billion euros and that machine could start operations by the late twenty fifty s the large Hadron collider is a twenty seven kilometre long ring buried one hundred meters beneath the Franken with sport in each Navea part of a large complex of particle accelerators synchrotron and other high g laboratories the large Hadron collider includes four massive detectors Alice. Atlas CMS and the L A C B H located in a massive underground cavern packets of protons and other subatomic particles are accelerated within ninety nine point nine nine nine percent. Speed of. Of light in opposite directions in two panicle beam lines around the ring guided by cryogenically, cooled superconducting magnets, the beam lines can intersect at any of the four detectors colliding the panicle packets at thirteen Tera electron volts and creating the sorts of conditions pressures and temperatures that occurred just after the big bang thirteen point eight to his ago. I'm Stewart, Gary you're listening to space time. Japan is launched a satellite designed that apply in artificial Meteo shower of Russia, the Japan aerospace, expiration agencies Epsilon four rocket blasted off from the space this out of Tokyo carrying seven miniature satellite payloads into a five hundred and fourteen kilometer high orbit while six of the satellites will undertake very scientific experiments. The seventh carries four hundred tiny bowls designed to burn brightly once released rain down back through the atmosphere. The Turkey obey startup company behind the so called Shooting Stars on the man service says the spacecraft's program that employ up to twenty of these tiny chemical balls at a time designed to glow brightly for several seconds before completely burning up. The flight was the fourth mission for the Epsilon solid fueled rocket and the first to carry multiple payloads. China's Caridad sick twenty nine thousand nine carrying four new satellites into orbit the solid fueled long match eleven launch vehicle blast the draw from the zoo Kwan satellite loan center carrying the jolly in one spectrum zero one zero to hyper spectral imaging satellites. These will join a growing constellation of miniature observation satellites developed by Beijing using multi-spectral and infrared imaging systems also aboard the flight with the link, Hugh, one verification satellite which will test communications between orbiting satellites and the Josh Jiang one zero three satellite, which will test radio communications and remote. Sensing technology launch was the two hundred ninety ninth mission for the long might series rocket. This is Andrew Dunkley host of the podcast space nuts, along with my good friend. Dr Fred Watson, astronomer lodge. We provide a podcast every week looking at some of the things happening in the astronaut Michael world and to a certain degree. That's what's inspired my next venture. When I'm not working on radio doing the podcast or working for the Salvation Army, which is actually my full time job. I liked to ride racing wrote an audio book which turned into a paperback and enabled called all. I see is mud a World War One story about my grandfather. I also write a sports psychology book to help golfers who get angry on the golf course called five lines. Don't float bit a tongue in cheek book that had a lot of fun with it. But my newest book is science fiction. This is a story called parallel. X it's available as a paperback, and you can download the book through Amazon and other able distributors. And it's a story about a man who gets thrust back to his birth. But the interesting twist he is that he retains all his life's knowledge. So he knows what's going to happen for the next fifty years. But the twist in the tale is that he's not the only one, and this strange corporation appears in his new life called parallel x and they want what he knows. So downloaded as an e book or you can buy it online at all the major online bookstores or in a real bookstore. It's available as a paperback. I do hope you enjoy parallel x and you'll find links to all my books said Andrew Dunkley dot com and timeout to take a brief look at some of the other stories making news science this week with a science report Greenland is melting faster than scientists that previously thought and will likely lead to fast sea level rise. Thanks to the continued accelerating. Warming of the earth atmosphere site is concerned about sea-level rise of Longford. Based on Greenland south east in northwestern regions. We're massive glaciers stream iceberg sized chunks into the Atlantic Ocean. Those chunks float away eventually melting. But a new study reported in the proceedings the National Academy of sciences is found that the largest sustained is loss from two thousand and three to twenty thirteen came from Greenland southwest region, which is mostly devoted large. Glaciers whatever this was it could be explained by glaciers because the runt many there. So it had to be the surface mess. The ice on the ground was melting inland from the coastline that melting which is largely caused by global warming means that in southwestern part of Greenland growing rivers of water streaming into the ocean during summer, and this is likely to be a major contributor to sea level rise. A new study claims Wrigley use of anti inflammatory drugs such as aspirin ibuprofen. Could hope patients with head and neck cancers site is found that regular use of these drugs lower the levels of inflammatory molecules found in patients with head and neck cancers hoping to improve survival and recovery you can read more about the findings in the journal of experimental medicine. And you study throws into question the notion that today's crocodiles alligators in Cayman have a simple evolutionary past previous researches pointed to crocodiles came in. And alligators starting with land-based answers to some two hundred million years ago, and then gradually moving to fresh water to become the semi aquatic ambush predators there today. But a new analysis published in the journal scientific reports officer different story claiming that modern crocodiles came in. And alligators came from a variety of surroundings, beginning the Jurassic and various species occupied a host of different ecosystems over time including land as she ruined fresh water marine transitions between land fresh water and sea or more frequent than thought and the transitions themselves not always from land fresh water, or from freshwater to marine scientists piece together crocodile came in and alligators and sister, but analyzing allied family tree showing the history of living and extinct crock. Cadel's came in. And alligators. And you study is found that postmenopausal women who regularly ate fried food have an increased risk of high related death and death from any cause the findings reported in the British medical journal based on questionnaires assessing the diets of one hundred and six thousand nine hundred and sixty six women aged between fifty and seventy nine researchers found that foods such as fried chicken or fried fish or shellfish associated with a high-risk of heart related death. Especially among women aged fifty to sixty five years fried chicken was the deadliest fast food eating it every day increase the risk of death by thirty percent and the risk of heart related death by twelve percent up to a third of North American adults. Eat fast food every day. Previous studies had already suggested that a greater intake of fried foods was associated with a higher risk of type two diabetes and heart disease. Anti vaccination being blamed for thirty percent jump in Mason's cases that huge increase in Maizels has been sending both Europe and the United States. However, the trend has not been repeated in Australia, we government programs designed to encourage immunization of paid off with immunization coverage rating children hitting record highs. Tim Mendham from a strange skeptics says the figures from merica in Europe shows how dangerous the Atty vexes can be really scary stuff. I mean, it's a major increase in measles cases around the world seems to be a real boom in the anti vaccination the impact of the anthrax next way back when when Andrew Wakefield did he's report on supposedly autism linked to the vaccine and up, right? Why didn't you came measles? Vaccination dropped and cases amazing sword. And then that seem to dry out a bit. When those prehistory wakes was shocking. But since then the maze was has come back dangerous that people did not seem as who's anymore. When I was a kid Maizels. Seriously, damaged by Maazel. Okay. We used to dive things because through vaccination to die that and suddenly people have become complacent and it's come back and come back with a vengeance. In Europe, especially in the US, and increasingly Australia. The numbers of cases of missiles says increase we had to Maizels of hot was killing about two and a half million people year a lot of countries that dropped in about two thousand sixteen. I think it was too bad eighty thousand a year dying with people who have been damaged by Houston has been set the license. Also things that killed by Maizels was drafted ninety now back up to about one hundred twenty thousand a year people dying of this every almost had walked out except the anti vaccination movement. Kid making comments that oh measles killed. Anybody can have Maizels Totti's where you can bring you need the long Emmanuel catch measles. And it'll be great for them title stupidity. Totally responsibility. People paying with their lives, and it's little kids by Losch who pain is price because their parents are not doing the right thing. That's t. Mendham from strain skeptics, you're listening to space time. I'm Stewart Gary, and that's the show for now. You can subscribe and download space time as a free twice weekly podcast through apple podcast on itunes, Stitcher. Bites dot com. Pocket costs soundcloud. Youtube audio boom from space time with Stewart Gary dot com, all from your favorite podcast. Download provider space times also broadcast coast to coast across the United States on sides three sixty radio by the National Science Foundation in Washington DC and available around the world on June in radio, if you want more space time checking our blog where you'll find all the stuff we couldn't fit in the show as well as loads of images media stories, videos and things on the web. I find interesting or amusing just go to space time with Stewart Gary dot tumbler dot com, that's all one word and in lower case. And that's tumbler without the you can also follow us on Twitter through at Stewart. Gary at space time with Stewart Gary on Instagram and on Facebook, just go to WWE. W dot Facebook dot com slash space time with Stewart. Gary space-time is brought to in collaboration with Australian sky. Tell us go magazine you'll window on the universe. You've been listening to space time. With Stewart Gerry this has been another quality podcast production from bites dot com.

Stewart Gary halos Higgs Stewart Gerry Andrew Dunkley Gary proton Stewart Gary dot United States Oppy Blackhawks Rover NASA apple Dallas
14: A New Fundamental Constant of the Sun

SpaceTime with Stuart Gary

25:35 min | 2 years ago

14: A New Fundamental Constant of the Sun

"This is based on series twenty two so fourteen for broadcast on the fifteenth of February twenty nine thousand nine hundred coming up on space time, and you fundamental constant of the sun you images show. Ultimately is more like a walnut pancake than the snowman. And how black hole merges could be revealing you particles all that and more coming up on space time. Welcome to space time. We'd Stewart Gary. Astronomers have discovered that magnetic waves in the sun's corona its Adamus layer of atmosphere react to sound waves escaping from deep inside the sun. The findings reported in the journal nature at strana me means the sun's magnetic waves behave differently than previously thought scientists had thought that the waves originate at the sun surface. We're boiling hydrogen at temperatures of six thousand degrees chins, the sun's magnetic field. However, the new research has evidence that the magnetic waves also react or excited higher in the atmosphere by sound waves that he's pressure waves leaking out from deep inside the sun. The sound ways were found to leave a distinctive Markelle on the magnetic waves, the prisons of this marker means the sons in Ticor owner is shaking and collective manner. In response to the sound waves and all this is causing it to vibrate over range of frequencies. This newly discovered market was found throughout the corona and it was consistently present during an entire ten years of. Correct survey shins who studies lead author Dr Richard Morton from north Umbria university says these magnetic waves then as Alvin waves play a crucial role in transporting energy around the sun and the solar system. He says these new findings are exciting because it suggests they represent a new fundamental constant of the sun and potentially a fundamental constant of other staff as well. The findings could therefore have significant implications for sciences coward ideas about how magnetic and cheese transferred and used in stellar atmospheres. This newly discovered in very unique signature could lead to a new way to examine classify the behavior of Allstars. The sun's corona is over one hundred times how been at surface and the energy streaming from the authentic waves is believed responsible for hating the corona to temperatures of around a million degrees. The finnick waves are also responsible for heating and accelerating powerful solar wind from the sun, which then travels throughout solar system. These wins travelling at around one point. Six million kilometers an hour. And they also affect the atmospheres of planets impacting on their own magnetic fields and causing phenomena such as Rohrer Morton says the new evidence shows, the sun's internal acoustic our solutions are playing a significant role in exciting the magnetic alpha waves, he says this gives the waves different properties. And suggests that they more susceptible to instability, which could later, hotter and fast, the Solar Winds. You're listening to space time. I'm Stewart Gary. Okay. Let's take a break from our show and talk about our sponsor, the great courses. Plus, the great courses plus is an online streaming service offering you indepth information on an extensive Roddy of topics. We'll anything you're interested in you can learn about human behavior. Ancient history philosophy about politics, language, cooking, even photography, whatever you're into you bound to find a course that will suit you and because I'm a fan of the great courses. Plus, I know their information is reliable fact-based and presented in the truly engaging way by real experts in their fields lecturers professors and scientists who actually carry out the research, and there are thousands of lectures to explore with the great courses. Plus, the other thing I love about it is you can watch or listen to whenever you want to wherever you want to at home during the daily commute on long distance flights as audio or video. It's all there in the app as we mentioned last week. Then you've been checking out. Is introduction to Astro physics? Presented by Dr Joshua win from Princeton University. This series of lectures, explains how shine it goes through the life cycle of stars and the spectacular ways in which they can die. You'll learn all about the way telescopes work what a spectrum graph is. And what it tells you about stars composition and what it's doing. I believe this is a great series to expand your knowledge set. Check it out for yourself. That's a space time. Let's get a free trial with unlimited access to the entire great courses parts catalog a great chance to learn about anything you want to start your free trial. Now, go to the great courses plus dot com slash space. That's the great courses plus dot com slash space for your free trial. And of course, I'll include that Lincoln the show notes and you'll find them on our website. And now it's back to our show. This is space time with student. Gary you images of the distant copper Bill would ultimately show that it's found a stranger than previously thought the Avakian of new image sequence from this as new arise in spacecraft officer departing view, the distant frozen wold which was the target of its knees day fly by these aren't the Las Altima Italy images, which horizons will send back to earth fact, many more to come, but they are the final views new horizons captured of ultimately officially named twenty four hundred m you sixty nine as it raced away from the frozen world out of a fifty thousand kilometers per hour. Back on January the first now you may recall this first close up images of ultimate to lay with its two extinct and apparently circle segments. Head scientists referring to it as a snowman, however, more analysis of the approach images. And then you departure images have changed scientist's view in. Reveal outlined the portion of this distant world that was not eliminated by the sun. But could still be traced out as it blocked. The view background stars stringing fourteen of these images into short departure movie, you horizon, scientists found the to Sigmund so lobes of ultimate Suli aunts. Very cool. It seems the lodge lobe nicknamed ultima more closely resembles the giant pancake while the smaller lobe nicknamed to lay is shaped much more like a well sort of dented warmer really mission. Principal investigator Allen stern from the southwest research institute in boulder. Colorado says nothing quite like this ever been captured in imagery before scientists had an impression of alternate. So late simply based on a limited number of images returned in the days around the fly by but seeing more data has significantly changed. Scientist's view stern says it will be closer to reality to describe ultimately shape is flat like a pancake. But more importantly, the new images creating scientific puzzles there. Just how such an object. Could even be formed stern says astronomers have never seen anything quite like this opening. The sun the images were taken nearly ten minutes. After new arises crossed its closest approach point. The departure images would take him from a different angle compared to the approach images. And so reveal complementary information about ultimately shape, the central frame in the sequence mistaken. When you horizons was already eight thousand eight hundred sixty to kill him. It is beyond autumn it to lay and more than six point six billion kilometers from earth. The objects eliminated crescent is blood in the individual frames. That's because a relatively long exposure time was used during the rapid scan to boost the cameras signal level about the science team, then combined the process images to remove the blurring and shop in the thing. Crescent many backgrounds starts also seen in the individual images watching which does blink dab is the object passed in front of them. Then allowed scientists to outline the shape of both lobes which could then be. Compared to a model. Assembled from analyzing preflight images and ground based telescope observations. You horizons was launched back on January nineteenth two thousand and six from the Cape Canaveral air force station in Florida aboard an atlas five rocket the probe made history on July the fourth two thousand fifteen when it became the first spacecraft to visit Pluto flying just toll thousand five hundred kilometers above the two thousand three hundred seventy seven kilometre white dwarf planet surface new horizons also visited Pluto's binary partner, Sharon, and they full moons sticks nix cobras and hydra Pluto's one of the largest known bodies in the copper build a ring of frozen worlds comets in icy debris, circling the sun out beyond the orbit of Neptune your horizons next encounter was generally the first twenty nine teen win it undertook. It's close fly by of the thirty kilometer wide capability object. What fourteen MU sixty nine ultimate to lay by the way that name Altima Tuli will it's an ancient. Traditional name used to describe the most distant place known a land beyond the borders of the known world in ancient Greek and Roman times, ultimately was the place furthest north now thought to refer to Iceland, Greenland, although both the ought and chat line islands have also been referred to as Altima Tuli in medieval times, the find out more enter dagley. Speaking with astronomer, Dr Fred Watson. Okay. Fred, it's it's like visiting an all friend. We keep going back to the new horizons probe and the daughter at sending back not only the stuff from Pluto. But on New Year's day, one of the great achievements in I suppose, astronomical investigation or exploration was the passing of the object known as Altima Tooley and the lightest images coming back bearing in mind. This daughter is going to keep coming back over the next twenty months old side. So they'll be more new images to say, I imagine. That's right. In fact, this partly another one on sway. I'm so. Yeah. The reason why we're talking about this yet again. And we certainly given it question lots of prominence in the last few weeks ultimately is revealing secrets where seeing steadily higher resolution images and the new one that has just been received. And of course, it takes a much of time because of the very low bandwidths of the signals coming back from the new horizon spacecraft six billion killing six billion kilometers because the using the strategy and NBN service. No doubt. That is the case. Yes, it's now seen at a resolution, which is quite fine actually, considering what we're looking at one hundred thirty five meters per pixel, but that comes from a wide angle camera board new horizons, and we know that the same image that we're looking at you, and I are looking up. Maybe I'll listen to the same image is also in the memory banks of new horizons taken a much higher resolution by something called the long range, reconnaissance image. Otherwise known as Laurie but not has not yet been down fed to the stations. So we can see it. However, we've certainly we are getting some very very enticing information from this wide angle view that we've got of Altima tool as about thirty three kilometers from one end to the other meats to blob stuck together. One now called L tumor the other to lay fire remember rightly the big ones eligible, and you can already see evidence of cratering Baldi some very peculiar looking features. The smaller part of the objects seems to have a huge crater any side with. It's been hit hard by something be exactly. That's right. No doubt. There are others all over because that's how these things now they come together by things crushing into them. But you can see a number of smaller craters or pits. It's not clear what they are. They could be the result of outgassing activity within the object itself where gases are coming. Out for some reason or another all that could be small impact craters, my guess is looking at them with my experts. I guess is that it's the latter that are probably smaller impact craters. But it is just fantastic thing to say, this is basically a monochrome image that we're looking at all of the color available on that camera. We know it's already that he says sort of pinkish red color, lots of bright streaks on it. Which also suggests that there is actively of some kind or has been on the surface because Brian stuff while an object. Like, this is usually the more recent stuff powder those been deposited on the surface ruin. But you can certainly say that at the join way they've come together. They that's right. Yeah. It is going to be lightish in color, and as you said, the the neck region is much brighter. And the suggestion there is that that is powdery stuff those full and into the the crack between these two objects that when they came together. So that they don't join a such. They're just in contact somewhat. What keeps them together for it? And right. Could that be torn apart? Brennan. Great. That's a great question was leads into something that was just about to say because one of my colleagues in camera. Did it quick calculation when we saw the first images of what the pressure might be between them given the fact that we've got these two objects which both have not very much gravity but enough to hold them together. And the pressure is is high in the region of tons per square inch just depends on how much contact area. There is between them he he was assuming just took a wild guess as to what the contact terrier is between them because it's all it's all at one point. Then it's a very high number if they've kind of flattened out to bit. So these two things have have squashed together slightly, then the pressure holding them together as much less. So what's surface, tension, or suppose? That's right. And you know, the maybe affective that kind that that helped to it's basically gravity this doing the job, but could be interesting surface effects going on the neck region. The great thing is we're going to see over the next few weeks you and I will be hard pressed not to talk about it on space us. So I apologize in advance to you. Advanced enough about it already. You're gonna get more. Well, you just never know what the next image is going to reveal and it might be something. Incredible. They will never seen before. So that's the reason to do these missions into to find as much as we can download as much daughters. We can and with the technology. That's available. We can do some amazing things. Now as we mentioned last time, we talked about this. They've got their eye on another object. So they're going to do a second fly by so it'd be interesting to compare notes. Really? That's right. That's we wait for the news on the mission. Scientists silence turn the principal. Scientists will be I'm sure musing over what kind of trajectory adjustment. They can make to bring another COPA bell object. These distant objects are called into the range of new horizons. Let's Dr Fred Watson speaking with Andrew Dunkley on our sister program space nuts, and this is space time. I'm Stewart Gary. And you study suggests gravitational wave signals could contain signatures of extremely low mess particles that might be a competitive dang matter. The hypothesis is published on the pre press physics website, archived dot org dot matter is a mysterious invisible substance, which makes it a bet. Seventy five percent of all the matter in the universe. Just a quarter of what we see. He's mad up of normal. Barry, onic matter the stuff that makes stars and planets and houses and dogs cats and people even though we can't see we know that matters real big as we can see its gravitational influence on normal matter, Brian now, the best fit for what matter is is some kind of new exotic subatomic particle done Mattis searches mostly hunt for repeatedly massive particles. However, some theories predict the existence of extremely lightweight. Particles could explained matter particles, not occur in the standard model. Particle physics one candidate? Eight is the hypothetical faster than light pilot will call the axiom if they exist these very light mess. Paddock wouldn't show up in paddock. Oh, collider experiments or in dark matter searches you calculation suggests that axioms, maybe ultralight Bozon's, and they could be detectable in gravitational wave signals from Jim black holes. In fact, clouds of these ultralight paddock was could be created by fast spinning black holes. And when two black holes colliding merge, the cloud would undergo a rapid collapse, and that would affect the harmonic of the gravitational wave signal from the black hole merger faithful gravitational waves could thus provide a novel new way of detecting particles inaccessible through ordinary experiments something new for the physicists like to start looking for. I'm Stewart, Gary, you're listening to space-time. This is Andrew Dunkley host of the podcast space nuts, along with my good friend. Dr Fred Watson, astronomer lodge. We provide a podcast every week looking at some of the things happening in the astronaut Michael world and to a certain degree. That's what's inspired my next vinca when I'm not working on radio doing the podcast of working for the Salvation Army, which is actually my fulltime job. I liked to rot racing wrote an audio book which turned into a paperback and enabled called all. I see is mud a World War One story about my grandfather. I also write a sports college book to help golfers who get angry on the golf course called five lines. Don't float, but if a tongue in cheek book that had a lot of fun with it, but my newest book is science fiction. This is a story called parallel. It's available as a pipe of back, and you can download the book through Amazon and other able distributors. And it's a story about a man who gets thrust back to his birth. But the interesting twist he is that he retains all his life's knowledge. So he knows what's going to happen for the next fifty years. But the twist in the tale is that he's not the only one and this strange corporation peas in his new life called parallel, and they want what he knows. So download it as an e book or you can buy it online at all the major online bookstores or in a real bookstore. It's available as a paperback. I do hope you enjoy parallel and you'll find links to all my books. Andrew Dunkley dot com and Tom to take another look good. Some of the other stories making news in science the squeak with the science report. Nassar is discovered a giant cavity two-thirds area of Manhattan. Enormous three hundred minutes tall growing at the bottom of the disintegrating weights. Glacier in Tactica measure says the findings were reported in the journal science advances highlights the need for. Observations Edyta glaciers and calculating how fast global sea levels rise in response to climate change. Scientists expected to find some gaps between is and bedrock. Eth- whites is bottom. What ocean water can flow in Moton, the glacier from underneath. However there were shocked by the size and explosive growth rate of the newly found hole, which is big enough to have contained fourteen billion tons of is most of which mills it over just the past three years. The cavity was revealed by ice penetrating radar in Nassar's able operation ice bridge campaign, which has been studying the connections between polar regions and global climate since twenty ten the research team also use data from talion in German space-borne synthetic aperture radars. So did you skip breakfast this morning? What do you consider it? The most important meal of the day. A new report from the British medical journal claims that when it comes to weight loss breakfast skippers might be onto something. They examined a host of studies that looked at the effect regular breakfast consumption had on weight change in energy intake of role while the quality of evidence wasn't that high based on the evidence they saw those skip breakfast. Consumed less calories, and we're on average zero point four four kilograms lighter. Researchers say the idea that breakfast is the most important meal of the day comes from observational studies that could be skewed. Experts with the United States naval war college and the university of Tel Aviv have discovered that internet traffic heading to Australia from Europe and North America was mysteriously diverted to mainland China over six day period in two thousand seventeen that aversion which could have been able to major data theft is being described by China's state owned telecom is nothing more than a rounding error. However, the experts at Tel Aviv university say they checked it unusual insistent Matic hijacking patents. A metric just that contrary to what Beijing claiming it wasn't an accident. The targeting of data bound for stralia full is recent revelations that China's pick security agencies responsible for the surgeon cyber attacks on Australian companies over the past year, and that's a clear breach. Abolish agreements not to steal each other's Commissioner secrets. A new study ones that teenagers who don't get enough sleep a more likely to take part in dangerous behaviors like smoking consuming alcohol taking drugs having unprotected sex driving dangerously and committing acts of violence the findings reported in the journal sleep medicine reviews looked at data and over five hundred and seventy thousand teenagers who took part in two thousand four previously related studies around the world the study reviewed the association between slick curation and risk-taking finding a direct link between risk-taking behaviors and falling short of recommended sleeping hours. Adolescence need between eight and ten hours sleep tonight. They say there's money in trash and that this is circa born every minute. And that's certainly true for the business of fortune telling and psychics, the immortal words of the character of Dr Sheldon Cooper from the hit comedy series. The big bang theory. Probably says it best I don't mean to be rude or discourteous fit before we begin. I'd just like to say there's absolutely no scientific evidence to support clairvoyance of any kind which means again, no insult intended that you're a fraud. Your profession is a swindle. Your livelihood is dependent on the Gulf -bility of stupid people the brilliance of the Sheldonian view on the universe. Still fortune. Telling is now a two billion dollar industry in the United States and apart from the occasional conviction for grand larceny. It's growing by around two percent per year. Joining us now to talk about this is Tim Mendham from Australian skeptics meeting growing quite steadily for number years. But the right of increases actually going up, and bam story often is that in times people might turn to psychics against some sort of comfort aim reality. It looks like an excellent ties people have Justice likely to turn to psychics, whether they do it as entertainment or whether they seriously believe not being formation. They're getting is suppose you had to look at eighteen pace, but the growth evident in America, people taking up sake information services has been growing every year. There's a survey done by will to Nikolay SSD industry of genuine industries. Nice it that in the last that the innocence. The same rent new two billion dollars in two thousand eighteen timeframe the number of businesses growing by close to two percent of the number of employees has grown by Saudi lists. The most psychic businesses have wound employees his who's the business does at the site. You can let but I mean, the growth actually the grass in previous years was a lot higher two thousand fourteen he was a bad sort of five percent growth. Six percent growth each Trump. Because of unforeseen circumstances. I. I went to the of that. But I mean, I don't know 'cause actually show through the office will because you had to fight thousand dollars to see what the future predictions. But I mean suggesting that is going to continue to grow. It's simply hasn't shown a negative for number of years. That's Tim Mendham from Australian skeptics, you're listening to space time. I'm Stewart Gary, and that's the show for now. You can subscribe and download space time as a free twice weekly podcast through apple podcast. I tunes Stitcher dot com. Pocket costs. Soundcloud? Youtube audio boom from space time with Stewart Gary dot com, all from your favorite podcast. Download provider space times also broadcast coast to coast across the United States on science three sixty radio by the National Science Foundation in Washington DC and available around the world on tune in radio. If you want more space time checking our blog where you'll find all the stuff we couldn't fit in the show as well as loads of images me stories, videos and things on the web. I find interesting were amusing just go to. Space time with Stewart Gary dot tumbler dot com, that's all one word and in lower case. And that's tumbler without the you can also follow us on Twitter through at Stewart. Gary at space time with Stewart Gary on Instagram and on Facebook, just go to WWW dot Facebook dot com slash space time with Stewart. Gary space-time is brought to in collaboration with Australian sky and tell us go magazine you'll window on the universe. You've been listening to space time. With Stewart, Gary this has been another quality podcast production from bites dot com.

Stewart Gary Dr Fred Watson Andrew Dunkley United States Stewart Gary dot Dr Richard Morton Brian Adamus Ticor Stewart Altima Tuli Colorado scientist China apple Princeton University Tel Aviv university
'The Moon's Going Rusty'

Space Nuts

49:18 min | 8 months ago

'The Moon's Going Rusty'

"Love. This podcast support this show through the ACOSS. Supportive, Asia. It's up to you how much give and there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now. Fifteen seconds guided internal can. Buy ignition sequence spins nuts. To Fatten. Feels good. Hello once again and thank you for joining us. This is the space nuts podcast episode two, one, nine. My Name is Andrew Dunkley I'm your host and with me is always the professional professor of all things. Professor -able. For It I don't profess to be any of us. I couldn't think of a word so I just made one up. To. Come up all the time. The territory where our work hey being well, thank you how how have you been good here. Terrific. Judy audio road trip. Last week, we went at at West of New South Wales northwest, and we went to a an opal mining town called lightning. Ridge I think a lot of Australians will ever heard of it, but maybe people from overseas wouldn't have but It's it's the only place in the world where you can get black opal, I saw a pendant and opal pendant. F- asylum, one of the local shops day for one, hundred, twenty one and a half thousand dollars. Both the Judy. I not just stolen ran away. But it it was remarkable. Beautiful. Jim. Beautiful Jim it's the second. The Black Apple attends ad is the second most Ray Jim in the world. Lay you go on. Behind the pink diamond. But on a on a white for white basis, it is one of the most valuable gems on the planet as well. Quirky plice strikes little price is minds all over the place actually in the town. just to give you an example you. Can Get allocated a fifty by fifty Mehta section of land, and that's your mining entitlement and what they generally do is they drill a hole down about fifty, sixty eight till I get through the sand Stein, and then they faucet around under there in the client for the for the Apple. Same. We went down to mines while we were there, it's just an amazing place. And then we went to the iconic western town of book on the dialing. River and then came home through the the mining town of about that, my Nopal, they my mind, COPPA zinc and gold and Again, the center of the town is just got a massive open cut mining it. It's It's a really interesting place to visit three very different but I connect. places in Western New South Wales because we couldn't get Canada. We called it the nut candidate to not Canada to a pop to. And now we went out West which locals very much appreciate added to. Your. Yes they would of course. But you sent me a picture of the astronomers memorial. So what about? That was really interesting that was in lightning. Ridge which gives you an idea of how quickly the Pisces somebody on on their actual monning allotment you got to imagine Usually, just build a shack on it to to Sorta in while you not working. But a lot of people who've gone out there of if decided to go the whole hog and built houses on them, will someone built this amazing structure and cold at the astronomers memorial I didn't know it existed until I looked up and I went and had a look at it. But there's a bit of a dockside to two freight unfortunately, the people who are ended his sold to a neighbor and dancing the transaction all at will. So she gets very upset when people got to look at it. while. While we were there taking a pay, she came out and I thought she had a broomstick and she was going to smash me with it so. I didn't hang around too long but yeah, there's a I don't know much about it. Apparently, all the famous astronomers listed on wall, in there somewhere. But I think you have to be delayed to be on the wall. Afraid. Not So Say. You're off the hook though yeah strange. And there's there's another mine not a morning allotment where the guy has spent twenty something years building a castle. Yes. By hand. Yes. One Standard at time entities of. Castle as good a courtyard it's got a tower. It's got. You wouldn't believe that it would be in the middle of a place like this until you came across it and it's called a mega as castle on, it is remarkable and he doesn't live in it. He leaves shack at the back. What else would you do? Do. Resort route. It's lightning. Ridge. New Mexico. That's right. Visited Lining region and indeed. Have a friend who had a minor. So we went down the mind and look at that but it was his friends who were interesting people because they were all exactly as you've described real real characters, absolute characters every single one of them had a great time. Yeah. Very, very ECLECTIC, very Some of them are out on the edge. It's strange mazing place but do highly recommended his a somewhere to stop by for a dietary just have a look around. and they do it but they self drive to us and every- everybody sort of identifies themselves with car doors. Yes. So they'll have the. Property they mind on a car door on a on a tray. And I have a car door I have five Kado to it. So you follow the colored car doors to to different. Points of interest. Brilliant Brilliant. They love it. The other thing to watch remember this very clearly to watch out for. All these miners because they're jealously guarding that properties that they've got Doug Saddam wants that you don't mess with. An I remember one of the the the friends of the people I went that with. The dog was tearing at the tires at least four wheel drive the shanking the car. So we didn't get out, we went for the friend to come out. So we could actually. Get the dog under control it was quite extraordinary. Frontier towns in the. It's an amazing town very much worth visiting anyway I. think that's enough of that we've been. Wrong So I've. Anymore. But the topics of the day. Fred. We're going to look at the rusty crust on the moon that sounds fascinating a story that will be disappointing to some by the doesn't mean. It's an absolute. No, but it appears there are no signs of alien technology from recent surveys. I will talk about very briefly. China's X. Thirty seven based by his craft and questions from the audience about Moose scope. And the expansion of the universe. So that's all coming up on episode two, one, nine of the space nuts podcast nap frayed. Let's talk about the rusty crust of the moon. What's what's happening to the moon or is it rusting? I didn't think there was any water oxygen updated do it the mood going rusty? It's not all of the moon it certain parts of the moon but what's happened is The has been a reanalysis of a data from the Chandra Yon Moon Mineralogy Map. Mineralogy I. Beg Your Pardon Meteorology Mineralogy Map. Instrument, and which is a which flew charter yon was. Several years ago it's an Indian space research organisation. Orbiting the moon. Discovered Water, ice on the moon and essentially mapped out the minerals have this mineralogy, my onboard. And so there has been. Basically, a reanalysis of some of the the data that have come back from that. And what has emerged from that a signs of metallic oxide. If I, remember metallic fool's gold noise. Not something else got remember anyway. The Oxide of iron effectively rust. But Hematite is present on the moon probably in small. In small quantities, but it's detaille was detected by the mineralogy map instrument. And a puzzle to understand how gets there because for hematite to form you need oxygen. And the moon is not well placed frogs June. It's got this hydrogen that which is released by the the water. On. The Moon but not accident. and. So the puzzle has been to try to understand. WHY DOT HEMATITE IS A. predominantly at the polls, which of course, he's weather. The water ice is as well in these really deep craters that never get the sunlight. But the the research that's been done. And this is quite a large group of planetary scientists. The the the what they've done actually suggests that the oxygen comes from the Earth and basically is transported along the basically that the magnetic field. So To get this picture in your mind what that might feel looks like we're used to bomb. Magnetic failed in the probably mentioned the field lines being the those kind of things waving my hands around here. You can see me. So let alone listeners could here at that. Hear it. Anyway. You know. What am I gonNA take field looks like but the s magnetic field is highly distorted by the Sun's magnetic field and so the magnetic field. So that trails behind it and The analogy that's usually used as it's just like a wind sock. Halloween saw points in the away from the direction of the winds coming from likewise the solar wind. Magnetic field trials behind it, and of course. The moon passes through that. Every month basically is through that that wind sock because it goes around the earth and that is the suggestion as to how the oxygen has got there. which is reacted with the iron to full this hematite. Really quite quite an extraordinary An extraordinary story and it might sound a little bit speculative and maybe it is but it is a model that works the the you know the the the calculations that have been done a on the on the. Possibility of this happening all come out positively so It's Big News. We could go high and mining the moon maybe not because it's not wonderful. People probably and and not be guilty this. Think that once you get to the limit of the atmosphere that's where the oxygen stops and as you do increase your altitude, the oxygen levels decrease significantly and that's why they have to. have. Oxygen. Supplies for those high altitude, aircraft and and some of the daredevil to go up there just jump off a platform for the fun of it but. It seems that there is some form of oxygen going well beyond that. That's That's right. Seems to be the Asian. Extraordinary, and let me just correct myself. For something I said earlier. Fool's gold is actually I'm Peretti's. Getting my. Compounds mixed up. PYRITES sometimes called power because it looks like go hematite if I remember these blacks. or Rusty Anyway. I have a rock collection when I was a kid, put it together for my scout troop. So I had all of those. Collection, you should have been stratton award. But Yeah probably like. Z. Collect when you're a kid just somehow vanished one. Piece Yeah. Still looking for my first pair of boots. I don't know what happened to them. We will on their own didn't they? Probably were capable of it by the time finish with Miss Indeed. All right. So the the moon is basically rusting and that sort of brings into play the future potential for mining the moon it must have some interesting. On it that people would have their eyes on at some stage I I would imagine. That's right. That's the next step. Of course, is said to go and trash the moon. Yeah, well, we've crashed a lot of stuff into it so and left all junk this. You're on his role gallon a holiday. Yeah. It'll end up looking like lightning ridge. trucked. All right. You're listening to the space knots podcast with Andrew Dunkley. And Fred Watson. Let's take a short break now for a word from sponsor name CHEPE DOT COM as their slogan says searching by domains from name cheap at the lowest prices. This is the service, the TAME IT BITES DOT com used to buy and manage out diamonds, and we're very happy with the service support and value. We receive count recommend them highly enough buying the right die mine name shouldn't be hard and with shape we've found it to be anything but that find your dream domain and join over two million customers. When you register with name Chepe trusted with over ten million domains, you'll find your hands when it comes to turning your website idea into reality. They also have excellent tools to find the right name for you like they handy search engine just type in your desired cross your fingers and press search if what you were after his already taken, Thou offer up some great alternatives and if you're looking for some inspiration, try the new website domain name finder based mode and discover thousands of domain names fast we've found the process to be excellent management tools intuitive and easy to use with excellent customer support. Should you need it all in? All a great experience all round if you're looking to pick up a domain name or two or three or whatever it is, you need to check them out and help support us at the same time. Just visit space nuts podcast dot com slash name shape that's space nuts podcast dot com slash name shape and nine shape is one word you'll be glad you did and you'll find the URL details in show notes and our website just visit the support page now back to the show. Systems. where the gals thanks nuts. Now, a Lotta people who listen to space nuts have their favorite podcast distributor whether that's apple podcasts or gosh is just squeeze them Lot of people have been logging onto youtube to listen to us which is great and that that's fantastic. We need to get to a target of four thousand downloads per episode I. Think it is and we getting getting closer to it. I think we're over three thousand per episode now that listen via Youtube. Sorry. Thank you for doing that and if you'd like to, it's pretty easy to find us on Youtube. Just in the youtube search engine spice that's podcast is only Eddie putting the annual. Subscribe, but whatever way you like to listen, we appreciate it and thank you and Cape on listening and don't forget to tell your friends, share it via favorite social media platform as well. and Yeah. If you know anybody who is keen on astronomy and learning as much as I can about what's going on out they make sure you tell them about the spice nuts podcast we certainly appreciate. that. Now Fred This next story is going to come as something of a disappointment I. Suppose to many people but there's been a cross section survey of ten million is. and. There is not drop of water on Iraq, which is a metaphor for no signs of island technology. Exactly. At least not in the seventeen hours of measurement that will. By this experiment that was done by people, I know actually over in Western Australia. So the story is comes from telescope called the Murchison Whitefield Array Ray, which is at the Murchison Radio Astronomy Observatory. In Western Australia one of the most radio quiet regions in the world. And that's also going to be the site of the square kilometer array low frequency antennas, which will be one half of the square kilometer array the other half being in South Africa. So the Murchison wide field array is run by. Basically. A. Group called. E. Crou-, which is International Center for Radio Astronomy Research run by good in university Curtin University but gras. And Curtin University work closely together and scientists. Certainly one of them Steve. Tin Gay. And he's colleague Shona Tremblay. Think he's how you say the name. So those. Scientists have been using the murchison wide field array to look at a Supernova remnant, which is very prominent in the southern Sky Villa Supernova eminent was. Damaged. In Cola using the Schmidt Telescope by David and back in the one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, a very, well known image which. Kind of you know. The color imaging with with visible light telescopes. We now have much better images than those because technology's moved on but. That's A. Of tangled tangled massive, rogen. That is essentially the remnants of a Supernova. Loaded if I remember Riley's of the of the order of ten thousand years, old bucks pulling it from my memory. So these scientists have been looking at that region. But they're looking in frequencies then so using the. Wide Field telescope that looking in frequencies actually correspond to the FM frequency band that we use here on earth. And will instrument is extremely sensitive. The other thing I love about the merchant Whitefield arrays that it looks in many directions at once you just look you know it looks essentially a huge chunk of the sky simultaneously wide field telescope in traditional sense of the word. That I used to work on the Schmidt Telescope was also Whitefield one, but that was in visible light wavelengths. Anyway what they've done, the scientists have essentially looked. For a long period. In the Constellation. Villa. Looking. For observations that will allow them to study the SUPERNOVA remnant but essentially Are also because looking at in the frequency band. Almost vertically. But of course they doing, they're not doing it unintentionally, they're also looking. For any possibility of intelligent signals or artificial signals. So Shino excited. The. mwa Much wide field array. Is it unique telescope with an extraordinary wide field of view that allows us to observe millions of? Stars, simultaneously. We observe the sky around the constellation villa for seventeen hours looking more than one hundred times broader and deeper than ever before with this data set we found no. Signatures no signs of intelligent life. Now, that's you know that some. I guess a to to some extent to be expected but if You would think in those millions of stars they've observed if one of them, how the planets on it going around it with lots of FM signals escaping from, and indeed they do from the earth the FM band actually escaped from the Earth. Then you would think that we might pick something up. So they estimate about ten million straws. At a variety of distances have been surveyed by this technique in the seventeen, our snapshot. There was another comment. which may have come from steep in Gheorghe Steve Tanguy says. Quote that I love a lot because of used it myself as Douglas Adams noted in the HITCHHIKER's guide to the galaxy space is big really big and even though this was a really big study says the amount of space looked was the equivalent of trying to find something in the earth's oceans but only searching volume of water equivalent to a large backyard swimming pool. So they how So. Paper people disappointed with the news that they've found. Nice on Valiente technology could breathe a sigh of relief. We might have just been looking in the wrong place. Well, try this only smoke. Just hand with his seventeen, our study, it's. Could've had blackouts simultaneously Thomas. Schreider meet. You know who knows what kind of technologies They're using this this specifically, I guess looks for. A. Civilizations like our own the particular point in our own evolution technologically. Where we've got to. Where we all leaking radio signals into space. And the NWEA is a great to for finding that if if it exists, of course, the same applies. To the self, the square kilometer array because that. is in many ways even though we're look a bit different is a kind of giant version of the NWEA works in a similar frequency range. What is effectively the VHF band? FM Frequencies until that instrument will have a much bigger range and as. Often trucks out because I love this statistic apparently can detect an airport radar fifty light years or it will be able to build. Of course it's not construction hasn't started yet. We hope construction of the ESCA we'll stop thanks for the square kilometre right the kind of giant version of the Yeah. I actually looking at a photo of the am W I it's. It's amazing. It's might up a four thousand and ninety, six die Paul Antennas that sit on greed. Resembles, a spot away from these things actually look locked spot it's. It's a I ninety s and tenor riot just looks if you're driving pasta looking at it, you go what the? That Hit. It in fact the the photograph you probably looking is really quite dramatic. He's from a very low angle. Actually these things are only about. Eighteen inches or two feet high. Right. At quite compact. Remind me of COQ, ten is as well. But. Like Now. So the. Self Will be similar except the antennas that bigger that. Should have more than the height of certainly more than my heights. Which is one point nine three. meters. Six foot four. They're like Christmas, trees that the kind of different design from W. I. Antennas. Just. Like a forest of Christmas trees and for the ESCA in Western Australia there will be one, hundred, thirty thousand of them not just for. That's going to be a lot of tinsel every year. That's right. Exactly So Ari. And you said you six foot four before before the total knee replacement, he was six, sixty two. So. Who knows obviously? The but only had one Neyla Don Zoe sort of standing up it probably. All right we'll be still hype for life beyond Earth at, of course, the other thing to consider is, as you said, we're looking for people. Or? Life forms that have reached the same stage in evolution as we have, but they could be cave persons. Yeah or they could or they could be planets that have just got animal life. And then. They can't sort of tell us anything about anything. So a worker. Possibilities what's with with what's the planets with only marine lush you know that's An all you can you. Say. My theory is that. The civilizations are looking housing going. FM. Well. True as well. That could be the case as well. Maybe. You're listening to. Space Knots. And in some cases on the F. M., band certainly the radio station I worked for broadcast on the F.. with Andrew, Dunkley and Fred Watson with. Life space nuts, and again, we say thank you to those supporters who choose to go the extra mile and pay us a million dollars a month to listen to the podcast. It's It's wonderful. Generous. View. It's sexually closer to a A dollar fifty a month. Now it it doesn't matter because if you have decided upon yourself to to deny it to the podcast it is greatly appreciated. Thank you. If you do want to become a patron, you can do that through the Patriarch website. Patriot DOT com. Slash space nuts. Or if you prefer to use another platform, you can do that through super cast or a cast all the details on our website space knots PODCAST DOT COM But thanks again to our patrons. Of course, as a patron, you get an ad free early edition, the spice nuts podcast, and we do add a bonus material for Patreon or patrons. Every opportunity we get. So stand by for some of that in the not too distant future of his plenty there the moment to work your wife through. Now Fred we've gotTa talk about something that China's up too but on guessing that There's not much to tell because I. assume this is all fairly top sacred. Yes that's right. This was A. Harks back to a story that you not covered a couple of times, which is the. The US military's X thirty seven B spacecraft which is something that looks like a a quarter scale version of the space shuttle. Suspension essentially launch vertically on a on a noble rocket launch vehicle but lands like a glider just as a space shuttle. We have had an announcement that the Chinese have got something Simla it was. Launched a think about two weeks ago. But on the sixth of September. The Xinhua News Agency announced that this the had successfully tested what they calling a reusable spacecraft. And it had returned to to shed jeweled landing site after two day mission in orbit. It launched actually on. Friday. The full of September. There you go. There's the date from a shoot come I come printing knocker incorrectly, but it's a satellite launch center in the Gobi Desert. So. Really interesting. A snippet of news from. Shinwa, that a perhaps the Chinese have got very similar vehicle to the x thirty seven. B that. May Well. Be Doing the same sort of research that the x thirty seven B is doing. Apparently we do know. From independent observations that this vehicle reached altitude of three hundred and fifty kilometres, but it also did something that I know. The. Exit seven be self was built to to try out. This is back in the late nineteen ninety s pity seventy I initiated. And that was to. Be An inclination changes so we believe that the Chinese version. Of the report read says it was initially launched the no-bid link clinician of about forty five degrees but then performed a dog leg maneuver to change its inclination to fifty degrees sharply after launching that comes from the phobes account of this of the. Flight. So that's significant change the angle of the orbital spacecraft it it means your you're you're actually A. Versatile makes you more nimbly Norway's, and of course I guess that will be something that. Is is always of use to the military because these things certainly certainly, the US one as a military space plane. We're not quite sure about the Chinese one because we know so little about it. That that was a hint in the south China morning. Post. From an unnamed source suggesting that. You know to. To get an idea of what the Chinese version is like. You should look at the US x thirty seven B so off. Very similar. Yeah interesting stuff. But. space craft a very mysterious because a lot of the time we don't know what the X. Thirty Seven Bay is doing. A lot of speculation but sometimes I just don't tell you what it's doing it spends. An incredible amount of time in. Orbit. Vs Indeed. That's exactly right. Rather extraordinary I'm guessing Johnny's a looking at shaving sign kinda thing. That's that's the semis. That's right. we we are really. Clutching at straws at the moment but it's. It's an interesting development and We look forward to. More about it. Indeed. It's the new space race into China's catching up fast just one part of it. That's right. Yeah. China's doing well indeed. Great. All right. Let's move onto some questions frayed and first question comes from Nathan in Melbourne Australia. Hello Fron injury. Nathan he coming from stage look down in Melbourne. Sitting in front of the pizza oven on. Father's Day enjoying. A quick guys this does. Injury. Great job with the old you in putting this together and Fred thanks for your time. my question is the. Able. To say. Bhandari. Star. One is Caesar will the alternate name is is is zero, two, zero, eight, one, zero, two. Can definitely say them close together. Come, looking out. When I use the APP, but only shows the ones. So I just WANNA save. That's possible. Also I just wanted to save you guys ever just go out look at the stars without using the telescope and enjoy that just as much. Great Sherry and you have a great week. Thank you. Thank you Nathan now, hopefully, will be relaxed in the not too distant future for the people of Melbourne who've been going through a second wave of coronavirus innovation suffering through does significant lockdowns but the number starting to work back in favor of of Melvin the the case load starting to drop, which is good news but the et thoughts a with you Nathan and thanks for your kind words. ACI He mentioned a binary star system on sure you've heard of it Fred. Yes. So what Nathan talking about is a, it's a pair of style us. which is a little bit more than a reveal here in a minute but I'm they they called. Moose Copay so mu is. The something Fletcher of the Greek Alphabet. What we call a bio letter and it's you know we've got Alpha Alpha Centauri and all the rest of it. That's how they named the the order of bright stars. In a in a constellation. Named in basically in order brightness when you get to you in the Constellation of Scopus you've got you scope. So Mu scope is actually a pair of stars and exactly it's next and says, you can separate them with the naked eye. The separation is actually a tenth of a degree and Just for comparison. The Moon is half a degree in diameter. So the separation is a fifth of the of the Moons Damato, which is pretty easy to to see. With the naked eye. Just as an. Aside here. A, because of that figure attentive degree. On the twenty first of December this year, we will have a conjunction of the two giant Planet Saturn and Jupiter in the western sky whether separation will be a tenth of a degree is a very, very close conjunction apparently the closest. State Twenty twenty-three They have been they get close to twenty years or so but they haven't been this close. For almost four hundred years. So with a look on the twenty first of December, that's just a plug for something that we will no doubt talk about later in the year suming, we're still going by and. GOPI. Okay. So the two styles. That you can see with the naked eye. One of them and this is the one with the Saao number that that Nathan mentioned an essay. Sorry say Oh number I say refers to the Smithsonian after physical observatory. They produced a catalog of stars many many years ago, which is to use using my research back in the nineteen seventies. So this particular needs is CEO two, zero, one, zero, two and that as new ones GOPI. So that's what just one of the components of this pair of stars but me one itself, the Seo Startup just mentioned is actually a binary system. And is one that you cannot say that the stars. So close together, they're almost touching they are in orbit around one another. and. Essentially the only way can detect the parts of a binder systems by using. Professional equipment you can't see them as a pair you can see. The effect of the fact that they are moving around each other in the spectrum of the two stars so It's I. Actually also what we call eclipsing binary, where won't component one of the Tara Stars passing from to the other until they the brightness changes. So, yes. It's a an interesting and complicated system, but I'm I'm really glad Nathan mentioned because the last part of this question do go outside and just stare at the stars well, I do all the time. AGO and have a look to see what this guy's like and just remind myself of what's happening up there. And yet. So tonight is probably going to be clear in Sydney tonight because it's raining of the moment, but I will go and have a look at Moose. And see if I can pick out stars in the tail. And and Essentially. The start of the tail of the scoping this, that's where the stories I'll have a look. What I can find. I to Nathan, DO A. Pop Out. saw it and have a look around when it's not too cold and specially on beautiful knots luck we've had lightly and stare up at the at the heavens. I don't know what I'm looking at because on. Amino what's up there I know the names of things but I've I've never been able to really track things down. as easily as someone like Fred could but I use those interactive statutes from time to time. If there's something I want to identify they're very handy. But yes, I do lock to look up there and see what's going on and I always hope that I see something unusual so that I can talk about it on spice nuts but no not lately though Mars has been making a prominent appearance in the Houston Scott he lightly in its quarterback to say even with the naked eye light it not. So. Thank you nice and few question knife also said that he was talking to us a recorded message father's Day which may come as a bit of a confusing thing decided to known astrid. But in Australia, we celebrate father's Day on the first Sunday in September. whereas in other countries I celebrated at different times I think it's in August in the US But yes, it was filed as day last Sunday here which is always a frustration for my wife goes father's Day often falls on her birthday and she really doesn't like that so. We're going to be careful. Going to Cape Okay. All right. Thank you. Let's go onto our next question. I under a friend of the show. I have a question about the universe expansion. Mentioned this several times and if I understand, it? Correctly. The UNIVERSE IS EISSA TROPIC SPOUSE equally in all directions. I. Can't get my head around this expense equally in relation to walk. I. Think you also said that there is no center of the universe. How can that be if it expands equally directions? This Kennedy implies there ESA Centre for. Thanks and keep up the good work. I can't wait for the next episode of the PODCAST. Thank you for your question and I think you and I've had this discussion before about if it's going at in all directions at the same time at the same speed that has to be a middle. Well that's what he's asking inc.. and. We don't know his name, but we appreciate the question. Did you pick the accent? I could yes, I wanted. To Australia. Could be. It's too soft, be German. From uncontrolled anyway. Nas to hear from you and yes, it is a confusing issue. The expansion of the universe I fred will solvable for you right now. Thank you. Thank you and good night look. COMES DOWN TO. What we observe because that's really the the significant thing. What we observe ace galaxies moving away from us in old old directions they move away. At the same rate. Proportional to the distance. So the what we used to call the Hubble but is now called the Hubble limit for low because. Matto, who was a Belgian priest who she did a lot of this work in the one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety s always been neglected a bit. So when we now include him in the Hubble law, what that says is that the speed? A galaxy is moving away from us is proportional directly proportional to its distance. The further away a galaxy is the foster. It is receding from us, and that is true of the whole sky. So the Hubble the metro works over the entire sky. In other words is actually is a topic that means that the recession velocity is changing at that rate. Everywhere, the same of not projects pressing that very well. So what you might immediately in infer from that is that we are at the center of the universe because everything's racing away from us, the universe is clear expanding, but it's actually not the case that's just an artifact and the the example analogy that has always been given. In astronomical textbooks is to imagine a fruit cake. Which is which is basically expanding in the oven as he cook it and all the current in. A moving away allegis separation is just increasing as the expansion goes ahead and no matter whereabouts you wearing the fruitcake. You'd see things the current expanding away from you and that's the same with ourselves. No matter where you are in the universe, you are going to see this Hubble effect. You'll see the galaxies moving away at. A rate that is proportional to their distance. Bank account. The does exactly that. Everything moves away. Well. There you go. This is. For More Patriots. Could be. Folly of it's doing that at the moment to. Never mind anyway that's a different story. So Yes, you could imagine maybe where the center of the universe but we're not. We are just a random point in the universe. Now, the big question is we really don't how big the universities and we don't know whether it's any boundaries these. Things that people study and. There are various theories that relate to these ideas, but we don't know for certain universe could be infinite. Bid. Middle. Yes, that's right. Well, that's right. So there's no middle and that also links with the idea. which basically is is turning the Hubble on its head. If everything's expanding away from everything else then the must've been appoint when everything was in the same place must have been a time. That's why I'm we what we identify with the Big Bank thirty point eight, billion years ago. So, if the current best bet theory which is based on lunchtimes theory of relativity is true. Then at this point in the distant past thirty point eight, billion years ago. The Universe was singularly, it was appointed with no dimensions a and now physics dot let us handle at the moment but that's the inference from what we can measure. And, that means that everything in the universe was in the same place. Then expanded and. Now the everything that was next to each other the star. is now widely separated, but any point in the universe could be regarded as the middle because it was it came from something with no dimensions. That's the the tricky. It is totally counter intuitive Andrew I absolutely understand why this does people's had in heads just mining too but that I basically, if you think about what observations we can make it. So that makes more sense that I saw the expansion comes directly from our observations The Universe is expanding same rights in all directions. Okay. Hype that help with your your confusion it is a very very. Odd thing to try and get your head around us confess. But appreciate a question. Thank you for for doing it as an audio question. We certainly doing courage that which she can do on the tab on our website space nuts podcast dot com click on the. Tab if you've got a device with a microphone. it's as simple as saying, hi, I'm Fred from Sydney and I have a question about Andrew Gulf game. How good is he? Really? It's got nothing to do with a stormy, but it's got a lot to do with physics but Yeah. That's simply if you want to ask the question we love Odia questions but we do get them on text as well, and we're more than happy to take them that y you do not have to speak if you do not desire to do so but we did we did actually get a really big batch of them the other for it which is great. So we gotTA dedicate next week show episode two, hundred, twenty, two answering as many questions as possible because we've got quite a backlog at the moment now, Fred. Have another reason. Is Not a question but I did have a bit of a winge about more sore back last week. So somebody sent me some advice Elo injury. So sad to hear of your trouble. But a little bit of advice from someone who's been neck. Energy paid to give you a referral to a nearest bonds specialist. Digital car brighter. It's real help. Short Sir Way to go. Now I don't know where the nearest neuro- spine specialist to DUB would be but I'm guessing it's at least a six hour drive. So back in. Word, which would well, my back was terrible after the driving last week. So yes, you're right. But Thank you. For the advice I will. I will look into into other possibilities, it. It it's a lot better. It's still saw but I can get up and down without Any trouble on even put my socks on now it was that bad or couldn't bend over to put my socks on which is tragic but it is getting slowly better. I'm now advised that I need to do some core exercises to build up strength in my lower back in gluts so that the the spine is better supported to avoid the problem in the future. It apparently, Fred. a a side effect of acid entry society is that gluts become useless? When that happened all the all the work moves to another part of your body and Wham Bam. Thank you Ma'am back pain. Simple as that. Back, is is everybody. I can tell. The. physio for the for the knees keeping the those call muscles working properly. So I do my. All right. Enough of 'em medical conditions I think. Pair of who we are. Body. That's why they might say. Which is Which is Stuck my knee together by the way I kinda guest that. A wonderful. Time we go. It's time we got going. This is turning into the. Conversation. Not a problem at all but I look forward company again next week. Fred thank you. Thanks. See you later. Fred Watson Astronomer, lodge, part of the team he on the space, and that's podcast for Andrew Dunkley. Thank you for listening. We'll catch you on the next edition as notes. To this. PODCAST. Available at Apple podcast, Google podcasts, spotify radio, and your. Plan you can also straighten on demand God still Paul. This is GAS PRODUCTION FROM DOT COM.

Fred Andrew Dunkley China Nathan US Apple Fred Watson Western Australia Ray Jim Canada Gheorghe Steve Tanguy youtube Australia West Asia professor Sydney COPPA zinc Chandra Yon Moon Mineralogy Ma Western New South Wales
Introducing: Gregory Peck

Space Nuts

40:15 min | 10 months ago

Introducing: Gregory Peck

"Love this podcast, support this show through the ACOSS supportive. HR! It's up to you. How much give and there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now. Fifteen seconds guided journal Chan. Ignition sequence UH space nuts. Three To. Pablo. report it feels good. Hello, and welcome, thank you for joining us. On this edition of the Space Nets podcast episode, two hundred and twelve, all about astronomy and space science. My Name is Andrew, Dunkley your host and with me again is Professor Fred Watson? Astronomer Lodge Hello Fred Good Good Day Andrew. How you? I am well. Sir, how you good thanks and the only say Good Morning Which? Might not be appropriate sometimes. If people are listening to this podcast, I do that's that's the thing about podcasting. People could be listening at any time on any days A. You've got to be a bit generic. Bet Your rum about you, hello. Generic, hello from me. Fraught with danger specific. But we'll manage I'm sure we'll manage now before we get into these these topics to today's topic Fred we. We do WANNA mention that we've. We've received a raft of questions. text and And we are going to weigh in the very. We haven't done this for a long time. We are going to in the near future. Do an entire episode dedicated to questions? So why if you've got a question? Want to throw at us in the next week or two Yes, please please send it through, and we'll try at it to the mixed with episode. Two one five will be all questions. All audience questions your chance to unravel the mysteries of the universe courtesy of frayed. Now today we got to talk about a launch that happened the other day. Actually watched this live although I must. Laugh a little at a network that showed it because to coming. Bicycling didn't know what they were looking at. 'cause I would just in a TV studio, and the the host said to the supposed expert. What's happening? He said I don't know, and and we're talking about the water spraying underneath the the burners, which is obviously the deaths, the flames, and reduced the amount of refuse flowing into the air. That sort of thing and They had no idea what was going on. So and and as soon as the thing off the ground like cut to a promo, so we actually. Never got the state of can get up in the. Anybody John Andrews. Clearly was. This this was a spice launch. by the United Arab Emirates not usually a country. You'd associate with spice exploration, but they're optimize. We'll talk about that. We're also going to look at. Venus again, but for very very different reason this time it's starting to be thought that it might still be volcanically active. Can you imagine that we'll also be answering questions? We've got one from Bobby Jim Escort. A terrorist scope and pater from Sunderland is asking a question about if Einstein was alive today. We'll get to what he wants to talk about a little lighter in. the program today, but Devas Fred di you. A the United Arab Emirates our country I. have had the pleasure revisiting. What an amazing place! It's SORTA like a It's SORTA like. On an Las Vegas with that casinos? would be the way I describe it very elaborate very overnight, just no slot machines, but fascinating place, but I've just launched a mission to Mars. Exactly and This is the first Andrew of probably three miles launches this month. Because we're in Mars season. We're in that. Period in the orbital dance between Mars and the Earth where you've got the shortest travel telling between the two. So launches this month or next month. Will that they've got the you know the the most energy efficient route to the planet Mars. Hope has been first off the block. The you as Orbiting orbital spacecraft. We expect the next one to be Chinese spacecraft and the one after that to be NASA perseverance. The rover that's going to look for signs of life on Mars so hopefully you and I'll through all of those down the track, but for the moment the one that is already on its way hope. which was launched on Monday as you said from the Cosima Space Center in Japan. Hit I was delighted that it went to who went to space on board Mitsubishi. which is what I drive sue? used to drive a Mitsubishi. Climbing, it's the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. H to a rocket bit was in fact the Burj Khalifa. Mine isn't the H. Two a rocket, but it gets me around I. Can tell you so. Yes, it's a well-proven launch vehicle actually that the Mitsubishi h today. I think he's got a track record your multiple like forty forty spacecraft up forty satellite launches so. That of course reveals straight away that there is a strong connection between the United Arab, Emirates Spice Agency and the Jackson the Japanese Space Agency The these two organizations have worked together on this project, and actually that's one of the perhaps the characterizing features of hope in the there is broad international collaboration. The University of Colorado in the USA has been responsible for some of the instruments that hope is carrying to Mars. Really interesting project and with the. The name kind of tells you. A mile is the Arabic word. Hope. Is A is a lot of is about international collaboration. It's about inspiring people. It's about inspiring. The Arab world generally. Because it is the first. Mission to another PLANET FROM THE ARAB WORLD! So a lot going for it. In terms of education and stamina, all those other things in you a this is bound to. To work wonders you a just by the way is not a stranger to space travel, though because they one of that astronauts actually flew on the International Space Station last year. an Arabic astronaut dot was very successful i. he gives a fairly short trip but at that there is you know. It's a very active organization. The the space agency so, the lunch was flawless. Ye I know what you mean about the the talking heads. On the channel, there were a number of different channels. That you could watch that on. One of the everything was in Arabic so I gave that WanNa Miss. There was another in English. Suspect is what you watched, but the one to watch was the one without commentary, which actually showed all the details of the launch. So, we could see the rocket lifting off and on its way. Almost A Perfect conditions an a very very fine launch. We sold the features of a launch. The vehicle went through its maximum dynamic pressure foam clouds around. It's not nose. And and the boosters separating. We couldn't see the second stage separation. That was too far down rage, but As far as another flawless launch, and to the best of my knowledge Andrew to wrap this up. Sorry I've told a lot. But to the best of my knowledge, the pro the mission is. As we say in the in the game. It is nominal at the moment. It is no MINOL. Nominal are I do have a question about this mission? Yeah? What is the I am of? The mission is Jim because it's cold hype that the missions I is not that I hope they find Mars. I'm pretty sure I will. By, why are they going Yeah, that's a great question. I'm really glad you asked it because the. This is not just you know doing the same thing over again. so there is a specific scientific area of of understanding that hope is designed to look out. And it's particularly. The interaction between Mars is lower and upper atmosphere. which is a fairly poorly understood system we? We know quite a lot about Moses. Lure atmosphere from the rovers down there on the surface. We know quite a lot about Mars is upper atmosphere from spacecraft Light Marvin, laving depending on how you want to pronounce it, which is in orbit around Mars at present, but hope is designed specifically to look at how these to. Behave. It Scott Three scientific instruments on board on a basically one is a high-resolution images, so it will be looking at cloud formation. will be also looking at the surface of course. And then to spectrometers to look at the the the elements in the atmosphere, wanting the ultra violet, one name for red. So very specific questions that we hope will be answered by by hope. It dovetails very nicely into the to the flotilla of spacecraft already gone to. In terms of its scientific mission, and just one final thing I'm assuming this. This mission successful. Will be the fifth will make you a the fifth space faring nation to reach miles. I'm just trying to remember what the others are. NASA coves Russia. India, and I think China is the other one. I'm Kinda glad that they're going up there to do an atmospheric analysis because if they were going there to check out the topography. They've spent a lot of money to do something that they could do by just walking outside. Exactly. But they've also. Topography well understood now from all these radar missions that we've had so. Yeah, IT'S A it. Is a great. Great Venture. Into it and we wish them well I can't wait to see how they have that mission guys in and once we get some feedback from. Whatever it is, they discover we'll. We'll let you know the other thing I think of mentioned this before Fred, but the other thing I like so much about these kinds of missions is how it brings nations together. You did talk about the in Jaksa getting together, but You say collaborations between the US and China and the US Russia and It's sort of from is. A unification. That that at that occurs at the at this level, aside from the the downs the Nastiness of politics at times you've got at the moment. The political clashes going on between the US and China and yet they more likely to collaborate in spice, and they are in in the in the board rooms of of political At the political table, so I think astronomy and space exploration, and those kinds of things are actually doing a lot more good than than people give it credit for sometimes. I agree with that Andrew. Yep Space Space unifies all because we. We realized that we you know we're all travel is on the spacecraft called? Earth and we've got to look after it of work together to to to make the world on space to paps supplies. And will soon look more like spice traveled soon when we start wearing masks. Now. You're listening to space, nuts, podcast and Huntley here with Fred Watson. System. As nuts, thanks for joining us on the space, nuts podcast and hello to our youtube subscribers. We're building up quite a number of youtube followers, and that's resulting in a lot of downloads now. Apparently, we're averaging about three thousand downloads a month on Youtube, which is fantastic but as a wise at producer has come to instead we nate four thousand. Wise did. So, we need to get another thousand downloads a month on Youtube. but I'll alive decides to him but if you. are a youtube user or subscriber, and you'd like to follow us on Youtube Channel. You can do that. youtubecom slash space nuts, youtube, dot, com slash, C, slash space nuts, and that's just one of the many platforms you'll find us on. Now Fred let's continue our four I into space. and. We're headed Tamaz this time, but we're back to Venus which we talked about last week with that that upcoming mission. which is GonNa do some date penetration right? Our imaging of of the hottest planet one of the hottest planets that we know of in entity, and now with starting to think that the volcanoes. Some of the volcanoes on Venus might still have a little bit of pep in that the. Indeed. That's right, so this is. Quite exciting research. It's very good that we're seeing this thing. Being published you know in advance of possible upcoming Venus missions, because the the the saying sane in a way sets the scene so the questions that we might ask on the on the future Venus mission. So what this is about is. Essentially, a re analysis Andrew of. Some of the radar imagery that came back from Venus back in the nineteen nineties. Actually, this is legitimate spacecraft. This is long before space. Nuts podcast, so you and I didn't particularly talk about. This. Magellan was equipped with radar. And basically map the surface of Venus for the first time because of course Venus. has this fake poisonous atmosphere that we penetrate? At least on the under normal circumstances, certainly with visible I easy to get near the bottom with parade, but even then it's. It's not giving us any idea what the services like radar is the only way to do it so a group of scientists in the United States have a troll through the Magellan data and what they're looking for specifically is some features which are that ring like structures on the surface of Venus that called Caroni Caroni, being the plural of Corona. Which of course means crown? These days are mind immediately leap to corona virus when we think of that word, but this is nothing to do. This just the shape of the structures that crown like structures and The the the some of the standing, already of how these things are formed. Because the thought to be. Caused by. Hotspots underneath the surface of Venus. Oh, it's a kind of upwelling hot rock. Then there's gregory pack by the way the Their coats is at from the vets next on your money's yet. Repick Gregory Peck. Yeah, the so so you got. Thank. You Gregory just outside. Be here. We've got these. Hotspots underneath the surface of Venus. Until you get upwelling, that's the technical term stuff coming up through the mantle of Venus. And penetrating through the crust, and giving you a volcano now, we know that Venus does not have plate tectonics that seems to be an established. Fact among Venus watches. And that means that I'm a bit like the phenomenon on Mars where you've got these huge volcanoes because the hawks. Penetrated through the crust, and just kept on going through the same hole in the cross, because nothing's moving, there's no there's no plate tectonics, so you get very large volcanoes now i. think that is also true. Venus exit Venus. He's far more volcanically active. The Mars ever was right has the most number of volcanoes of any body. In the solar system so what they've done is they've looked at these corona corona structures I talked I think one hundred and thirty. Three of them have been examined in detail. and. Essentially. The the details of the. Shape of these should explain that it's kind of almost like a a ring formed with trench like structure around this volcanic plateau, some of the thousands of kilometers across the biggest one. Hundred kilometers a so they also have an they sort of radio faultlines in lose well so there there are faults occurring to and is by looking at those structures that you can get. As to how long ago the activity ceased and Thank you gregory the the one of the Basically one of the authors of this work somebody called an. Has said a work shows that some of the interior. Is still able to reach the surface even today. Is clearly not so geologically dead or domes as previously old. Sorry about that. Having a fun not. dieted. I is the last thing that I. was going to do before we went on force. Put My phone on silent. So. Any. Better because she knows. The. Everybody's joining. So So! Yeah, the evidence seems to be that. Of of the one hundred thirty three caroni that have been investigated thirty seven seem to have been active, and this is the bottom line within the last two to three million years. Of course, that's very much the recent past in geological terms. Eight eight. Yes, it's probably speaks volumes for the idea that Venus actually's volcanically active today what a thing you know that you can now sort of imagine beneath those labs clouds. You can imagine smoking volcanoes doing that thing. It's amazing stuff. Yeah, and you know I I find it. Fantastic that a we can re analyze data from admissions and extrapolate more information from it like because we've got the tools now that we might not have had thirty years ago whatever? We can reanalyze data from these old missions and get even more value out of them. I think that is. That is just an amazing step forward for astronomy as well. It that's right with modern tools modern. Modern. Software that kind of Analysis tools that we have these days which certainly went around in the nine hundred ninety s when Magellan was? Was Doing. So, really extraordinary stuff, Andrew. Versus another thing. In us as well. That we have yet one more volcanically active body in the solar system along with your home with the Earth and Jupiter's Moon Ego And taught in two isn't taught. These incredible canines. That's right, maybe Pluto as well. Well fantastic. I to be specific about with I, think they are. They just think. Well No, there these are well identified science on. On the on the planet surface. Apparently they they former sort of ring like structure. All around. All around the planet Southern Hemisphere, so what you've got. Is this ring of these things in the planet Southern Hemisphere? Apparently the biggest issue corona called after our team. Which is two thousand one hundred kilometers in diameter colossal. Not Olympic Monday are gathering. Actually is is yes. Submit smaller than I. Think he's a limp assumes as a good point, should I? So may no longer be. But. This always the highest. Highest Right Right Gotcha. Okay. Well we will watch with interest because they might be more to discover, and certainly will be helpful to know about these things as you said with future missions to Venus so that they can take a local, or if the land something on the planet, which is always hesitant to do. They know where not to go. But It looks like Venus's has got a lot more to tell us than we thought twenty thirty years ago. You're listening to space outside. We'll be back in a moment went. Straight is gone and prepared a chicken. Green. Space nuts well I can tell you I'm not really sure of the fate of Gregory Peck, but I suspect he's still at the door, and still picking because that's what he does when you try and interfere with his daily, Protocol, for tells me. By the way if you're a social media person. Don't forget to join the space nuts podcast group on facebook. Where everybody, who listens to nuts can get together in chatto each other and ask each other questions in solve all the problems of the universe without the US having do do it for you. which we don't tend to anyway there's also the space nuts facebook page You'll find us on twitter. You'll find us on all all sorts of platform social media platforms so have a look for us in Cy Harvey your favorite one, and now Fred It's time to and says some questions and first question comes from Bobby. g. m. s got a very short and sweet question, but it is a really good question to hi. Guys, just wondering if Fred could talk about the recent ID of a terror scope the use of the Earth's atmosphere as a lens and he goes on to cite magnificent. Now I believe there is some work being done in this area. There is a paper, yes. By On the name of David keeping and the paper was published in. was published in PSP which you will recognize as being. The publications of the astronaut the Pacific. It's a it's a a journal that. Is a distinguished journal suddenly very reputable often come concentrates on. Solar System Studies so, what is this about We know that the atmosphere refresh or Ben's slight. And that's actually a because. It is essentially this this fear of air, which is which surrounds the earth, and in many respects, acts like a lens. We can see the effective it to some extent if you watch sunset. Cheesy to do with the Moon settle removed Roy 'cause. It's a lot easier on your eyes. And you don't have to use filters or anything. Full Moon. Rising, let's do it that way. Often looks. Slightly squash top to bottom. And that I've noticed that when I've taken photos of fullness that it does. Same to be a little bit sort of egg-shaped. That's right when it's when it's very close to the horizon and that's. Because the refraction of the atmosphere is the atmosphere acting like a lens. Squashing it down so. What's? ICAN then x to extend this idea to as. Looking at the whole earth itself. From a distance in space, imagining the same layer of atmosphere, basically behaving like a lens. So what you've got is a kind of natural telescope. and. That's this paper by keeping. As a about. that. So. So what I'll let me read a little bit from the abstract, because so explain what's going on distant starlight, passing through the atmosphere is refracted by an Anglo of just over one degree near the surface. This focuses light onto a focal lines starting. At an inobound DRI, outs to infinity, offering an opportunity for pronounced lensing, and so what the author then goes on to do is to essentially just imagine. What what you might learn from. Using the atmosphere as lands it's eight. And he's done this actually in the wavelength range from visible light out too far infrared what we call thirty Micron Light. So. The bottom line and coming right to the end of this. Let me. Just read the last bit of the abstract. A. What does he say A terrorist cope the terrorist group that he's proposing is calculated to produce an implication of forty five thousand. That's increasing brightness. For lensing timescale of twenty hours I'm not quite sure what that means. Read the paper. In practice the amplification, he's likely. To to avoid daylight sketching, because that's one of the problems of cozy atmosphere is bright when it's being illuminated by the sun, so there's only. Can do this, so that comes down to twenty, two, thousand, five hundred. And by that, so he's drawn the an analog that is the equivalent to a one hundred and fifty meter diameter optical telescope now. That's all fine and Dandy, but you've got all kinds of problems to deal with. If you going to do this in practice. Light the a arranging your detector, so it's in the right place to look at the object that you trying to see. You've got. The issues of What we call Deco involving volving the information, because you're not getting a beautifully formed image like you would in a one hundred and fifty meter optical telescope you getting the smeared out a blurry thing that with some some. Of numerical analysis might actually give you some information, but it's an interesting idea, but seems to have limited practical value and I think the there is an an an analogous thing that might actually be more effective, which is to use the F. as a gravitational Lens. And that is not using the atmosphere to bend the light, but using the distortion of the space around it to bend the light beam coming from a distant object. We use gravitational lenses all the time in in astronomy. The Earth's gravitational bending is not large. It's small because it's a relatively small objects, but if you are a distance now, the problem is accountable. How Far Away you've got to be to see image by the Earth, but I've got a feeling. He's about a light year is a long way away. But I think you actually get better results from that because you don't have to go with things like the atmosphere being bright, and you've got a a effectively bigger a bigger telescope, so that's just throwing. From a position of complete ignorance. An alternative which I think is also quite exciting to the gravitational lent. Yes indeed so it's. It's a good theory. At the moment. Practicality is a little bit nicer. beatable I think that's the bottom line. Okay Guy Bobby I hope that answers your question and thanks for sending it into us. Now Fred. We have an audio question, so let's get down to it, I. I'm from cement in the UK here. Absolutely miserable insure the best podcast new. Welcome UPSTATE ASK. If Einstein was the likes to tear. What do you think the Big Smith? He would want to so Biz. Okay, that was for those who are having trouble with the accent Patea from Sunderland in the UK Al Rum translation software that we use when we receive in Odio question. Actually translated. What paid is said to hi? I'm paid from cylinder in the UK dyslexia. Well. It's. It's just soft way. I? Have to say. That software does his best, but. When you get such a marvellous accident peters. Why Pete. A Mandatory Kenny accent there. Because I used to live not very far from where Peter is pieces. In Sunderland, which is on wearside in the northeast of England? I lift. For several years and had a lot to do with. tyneside, which is just a bit further north, but with very similar very similar accident, Jordy. and honestly it did it really did me good to peters question when he came on. I thought that sticking me right back to my roots. Is that so a great question? Just, in case, people didn't quite capture. St Said if Einstein was alive today. What do you think the biggest mystery he would want to solve would be yet so. That's a really interesting question. You know it's an interesting institute. Andrew because my guess is that he would be fixated now on exactly. The problem occupied the last twenty thirty years of his life. which is trying to unify relativity and quantum theory? Relativity. He's own Siri of The way gravity behaves. At work, so the very very large scale. Quantum theory, which was a theory emerged around about the same time as The works well on small scales, but house, basically little connection with relativity, the to don't seem to be compatible and yet they both work perfectly in the in the areas in the realms in which they are. We said by suited. Why is that? Why is it likely would still be working on that? Because it is still one of the hottest topics in modern physics? How can you reconcile the two and the reconciliation? Really what people are looking for is a quantum theory of gravity. So. Gravity one of the full fundamental forces of nature, the other three off the strong and weak nuclear forces electromagnetism, we understand those in the quantum realm. The All the particle physics experiments done. I have what we call the standard model. We can get our heads around a those full fundamental forces. And it all seems to work, but gravity has defied. Any kind of you know understanding at the quantum scale. We think there are things called gravitons. Subatomic particles that carry the force of gravity, but they've not. Denied have been discovered. Nor is there a theoretical framework that really gives you an any idea where they are until the moment physics looking all the time for holes, both in relativity and quantum theory that my indicate that Utah a show is the chinks in our understanding that might. Show where we might go to try and further replicate what's going on here? That does that big question about the reconciliation of a quantum theory and relativity is also the basis of trying to understand dark matter and dark energy, so all these problems have folded exactly into that and. I'm sure Stein would would still want to work on that problem if he was alive today. It's a great question and. With I think really interesting answer. Yes, indeed and Yeah 'cause I suppose another a seeing that he might. Want to try and do is prove himself wrong. Yes, with relatively. Well in a way you know any soon as we start finding. Gaps in our understanding of relativity or quantum theory, which is how this work has got to go if you're going to advance it then in a sense you are. You are proving on Stein, Rome, but. He's pretty damn right so far. Relativity works within one party and I think tend to the twenty three or something like that it is just pounding Lee. Accurate quantum theory likewise and yet they did not. They're not telling us the same story that not records are. Fascinating. Thank you Peter from dyslexia in the UK Oiy M. we appreciate the questioned. They probably is the place dyslexia Fred, but they probably side backwards well, let's write. Software translation software would probably with again on. Much debt that it would be least tries just like we do, and it gives us adequate answers as well just like way, too. But Yeah, appreciate your Your question paid a a bobby. Thanks for sending those in today and we going to get through as many questions as possible in coming weeks and again urging you to use the. Option on as spices, nuts podcast website spacing. That's podcast. Come There's a little. Tab the cold. I am I, and if you click on that. you can see how it all works. It's really quite simple. Bay out of the show basically and just. If you've got a microphone plugged into whatever device she listen to us on. All you have to do is hit. Start Recording and say hi. I'm Joe Blogs, from Connecticut and I have a question about general relativity and guy from the. What's going to happen now is we're GONNA get fifteen questions about general relativity or imagined. There it is that's how it is, or you can do it. The old fashioned way and send it to a spy letter with a stamp Mike. Sure you've got enough money to pay for those days, or you can email us or messages, or whatever works for you to send us the questions through I. Do hunt for them, because another puppets, a weird places, but most of the time I I do. Find them and send them all afraid. And he goes well. Let's rubbish. Rubbish to and we done doing. Now we do lock questions. And as I mentioned the head of the program, we are going to dedicate probably episode. Two hundred fifteen to audience questions entirely, because haven't done it for long term. We're going to be catching up to do, but that doesn't mean. Stop sending them because we do love to hear from you and we do love to hear voices two. Don't we read? It's always fun. It's Great Yup. All right I. Thank you to everyone. I think. Sorry could talking lobbying quite. Finish. No. Chicken talking ever saw. What's? So anyway, we're GONNA. Wrap it up for another white guy. Thank you. Fred is always all by the way. If you're a patron we have whether that's through patriots or super cast. We've got some more bonus material coming your way very very soon. Perhaps even right now, so listen at for that Fred And we will catch up. Real soon. Undertake Caldecott. So what trump is chickens? Indeed. Professor Afraid Watson astronomers at large he on space, nuts along with Gregory Peck, and from me and actually farewell. We'll see you next time on another edition of the space and that's podcast. This podcast. Available at apple podcast Google podcasts spotify radio. All your favorite podcast plan. You can also stream on demand still. This is another quality podcast production from. Dot Com. He's pretty. Pretty Feisty as well as Gregory. If you're going to try and chase him away is just as likely to take take. Up With these big. Should have just trump moving off the. All if you want to yeah. That was a complete failure. Okay At least determines right outside the door. That's why. Don't push it off because. Team!

Professor Fred Watson Andrew Gregory Peck United States Bobby Jim Escort Youtube. United Arab Emirates rovers Sunderland UK Magellan Space Nets China ACOSS Einstein Fred It Peter United Arab Emirates Japanese Space Agency
Free-Floating Planetary-Mass Objects

Space Nuts

40:07 min | 9 months ago

Free-Floating Planetary-Mass Objects

"Love this podcast support this show through the ACOSS support a feature. It's up to you how much give and there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now. Fifteen seconds guided. Journal. Chan. Ignition sequence space nuts. Three To. Five. Feels good. I once again, thank you for joining us on the space nuts podcast. My Name is Andrew Dunkley your host joining me as always is professor Fred. What's an astronomer at large? Hello friend Andrew. Very. Well, sir, very very well, indeed Assad from my continuing aching back dot pickup boxes is my recommendation. I'm not gonNA, do it rest of my life but Yes. Five five trips to the chiropractor and I'm still not quite one hundred percent but Yeah that's what happens. The problem with getting older issued I. Think About Getting Alda and the while your body is starting to change and you do things that you would have done in your thirties that you've got away with the United Lanka can get away with. That you go. Well. You need to wear a badge says I cannot pick up boxes so that when you say a Condo, the people know why? Back good patient actually. Yes. We press on regardless. Now. We. Guide to talk about a free floating planets I think they might be more of them than stars actually That's a lot of planets floating around out there doing their own thing Talking about stas which we weren't but we are We're going to talk better son because. In might have been part of a binary system at some stage which we have touched on before but they may be some new evidence by the sound of it to perhaps confirmed that theory and they're all might this spice doogie is back in the news. I. Am so thrilled because it sort of came and went and is never coming back again to the best of annoys and belief oswestry worried that it might fight away forever and we'd never be able to talk about it again. But here it is and we're going to answer a question from pole in Victoria who want is why we have never gone back to urine his and Neptune since voyager to. The. Short Answer Paul is that they had a committee meeting and they all decided that saying urine us out loud was too embarrassing. So we'd Never GonNa Guy There again. I think. That we're all flushed with embarrassment over the the name. Started that's just not. You know we can't put that on a meteoroid less. So in never going back, we'll go somewhere else. That's my belief show. Afraid got another theory. We'll look into that but I fred, let's talk about these free floating planets of which there appears to be many more than we might have originally considered. That's correct. So the these objects have got many different names sometimes rogue planet sometimes called often planets the nine light best. A slightly strange acronym which stands for Free Floating. Planetary mass of. Free floating planetary my subjects we somehow becomes Flops or flops with a double double. F.. Influx is a very appropriate management because that's what they are. Members of a solar system. They've they've. Become disemboweled disembodied have gone off. We don't want to be a part of your little spin out. We'll do our. Thank you very much. So these things are not just hypothetical. Excuse me we know exists they are. Observed in some of the cell foaming regions of our galaxy, most notably in the Constellation Orion which he thought him a variety is whether I whether I found you might wonder how a planet doesn't have come to light it up could shine. How could you detect them unser is that? Planets of the older of Jupiter size actually have. Low level nuclear processes going on specifically nuclear efficient in that interior which generates. Enough that detectable in the infrared Jupiter remember rightly. Image still almost twice the energy it receives from the Sun because of these processes going on in its interior. So they do shine dimly when the infrared region of the spectrum. That's how they have been found. stub we don't really know whether they come from and the two main theories. First of all, they represent a low mass. byproduct of the formation of stuff. So if you've got a cloud of gas and dust in which a full Ming you're GonNa get stars of many different masses forming within the gas cloud but you'll also get things that full because of gravitational self gravitational attraction that up big enough to become a proper stars a we already know that there's a class of objects in that category which are very large in number that co Brown Dwarf, stars, and they also shine by low level nuclear processes. They are more than thirteen times the mass of Jupiter. So they quite big butts is possible that you know within the spectrum of masses of objects being formed within a gas cloud. You're GonNa get things at the planetary mass. And Just the. Last remnants as it were of of star formation that's one theory. The other theory is that they may well be planets have indeed formed in the solar system but because of the gravitational interactions between those planets in this in that embryonic solar system early in its life. A one of these things has got kicked out in may be possible that happened in our own solar system, we might find an additional planet kicked out. Into a distant albeit so That's the main thinking of where the things come from what would help you know. Could it be by theory Sir your be both. Exam it could different you could disentangle. A few have observations of enough of them. You would probably be able to disentangle whether it's one or the other or both of those theories. So that's why the stories in the news because. Some work that's been done at Ohio State University. A has looked at you know the possibilities for these objects and they soon, they suggest that they may be as you send in the lead up to this. The headline that these things might actually outnumber stars there might be more of them than there are stars that kind of makes sense if they're. The sort of leftover debris of star formation that you might have many many gazillions of these things following. Along with biggest stars which we know about. But the question these authors pose is why? Why would we? How are sorry rather not why how how could we find if they're? If. These objects are so numerous and they point to a an upcoming NASA mission, which is a do for lunch yet I think twenty twenty-five is when it will be launched. It has the name of the Nancy. Grace Roman Space Telescope. Nancy Grace Roman. I think she's the one of the the brains behind the the Hubble, space telescope, she she was a a luminary. In fact, she was Nassar's first chief astronomer. And also. Known as the mother of the Hubble. Telescope. So that telescope. Space? Telescope. And it will. It has the potential to find large numbers of these objects. How can it do that by the process of? Microlending. which is that phenomenon that any gravitating object whether it's a plan that star galaxy or cluster of galaxies distorts the space around it, and if you have, for example planet passing between ourselves a distant star, you can see the distant star, but you can't see the planet. But what you can see is the fact of the planet's gravitational field on the light of the distant star it actually peaks the light into. Signal the light of the distance targets Brighter Planet Platt passes in front of it, which is completely country. Think it will be the other way round but in fact, the the gravitational field of the planet magnifies the light of the star. And the IT turns out that the Nancy Grace Roman telescope is perfectly suited to observing this kind of phenomenon. We already do see gravitational microlending planets that happens. With ground based telescopes there's a number of projects that look for that. So it's not it's not a a a while guess that this would happen. We see already but if you can do it from space with a kind of accuracy that this telescope will have, you're gonNA find more that's the bottom line and the more we know about these things the more interesting they will become. A part of it's all a system they're not opening star they've for some reason ejected formed in A. In a situation where there wasn't a an adequate enough stock to. So that flooded off somewhere a sort of within galaxy clusters or are they were within galaxies or or they perhaps floating between galaxies Of everything. So the certainly the ones that have been detected at all within our galaxy because say. You know you need to be able to observe a star beyond them. In order to detect them. He selected outdistance style, you seeing changing and so. They're all within our Galaxy And In a sense relatively local because the. Galaxies very dusty place. So when we look at the Milky, way, we're only seeing stars thousand light years. So away compared with the the twenty five thousand light years that it is to the central galaxy. So they'll they'll be galaxy the ones that have been discovered so far. I think ourselves that have been found away from star forming regions, but I'm not sure about that. Certainly. The ones that were first discovered were within star forming regions. We do know that they are objects that cross the galactic threshold if I can use that term and move is one of those it came from a different place. So I'm guessing these planets can do the same thing or could potentially. Well that's right I guess in an extreme case, she could have barging into our own solar system. From from very this solar system. Hasn't happened yet as far as we know. Okay but the the the the theory is they might be a heck of a lot of them. And they that could be all sorts of shapes and sizes too I. mentioned they will not however we believe account for the the dot, the idea of matter. Someone was going to ask that and was going to be made but. I. Imagine. They just again, probably just a minuscule part of the entire makeup of the universe. When you look at the, you know the amount of that they would come. Even. If they outnumbered stars, the amount of musty tribute is nowhere near enough to to make up the. We've been doing this for so long I guess that just just sort of happens sometimes for it Yeah they're interesting and who knows we might get a visit from one one day although that could be catastrophic. If it's sort of headed stratus, we don't really want. And I suppose even though the last time we spoke about at the theory was starting to be considered the planet non does not exist could planet on Bay Free, Florida well, we're about to talk about the next story actually under. Up. On. Hold for the moment. A minute and a half. Indeed. You're listening to the space and that's podcast with Andrew. Dunkley and Fred Watson. Space Nuts as always I'd like to say thank you to L. Patrons and there are many ways you can support the spice nuts podcast. You can do that to repatriate on dot. COM and sign up to to to pay Voluntarily. Of course to support this podcast, there's also super cast. It's space nuts stood supercars dot tech. You can do a free trial for thirty days and if you don't lock it what you can. Give it up or you can keep going various price structures within super. we have Combo deals as well. Say can listen to multiple podcasts depending on what kind of fee you want to sawn up for on super cast and otherwise supporting us is to listen via Youtube because the magic number on Youtube, is four thousand. If we can achieve four thousand downloads awake on Youtube that benefits the podcast financially as well. So there are many ways you can support the podcast I'm GonNa, tell you what you should or shouldn't do. It is purely up to you. It is totally voluntary and if you're happy doing what you're doing, then I'm not gonNa tell you to change. But as a patron, you do get bonus material and you do get the ad free version of spice nuts just science. Now let's move along and we hinted at this a moment ago. But as son might have had a had a twin or a might have been part of a binary system. Now we've talked about boundaries toss before and they're not that uncommon as it turns out. But asks on sits alone but he she or read may not have in the past. Exactly, and one of the reasons why this idea keeps cropping up is that. We know when we study sun like stars throughout the galaxy. Have Binary companion so that the start their life as. A. Pair of stars. And in fact, it may even be that most of them started their lives with binary companions and so if that's the case, then did the some and so this has been addressed by. A number of scientists at. The Harvard. Harvard University in the USA. And they've? Essentially identified a couple of peculiarities of the outer solar system. which suggests that maybe there was a a binary. You know. The Sun was possible binary system when it was born. Now before you imagine the some. Looking like. Something from star. Wars. So that, you've got to Sun's rising in the sky setting in the evening. This second song that we might have had in the distant past the suggestion is that it was very distant hundred and fifty billion kilometers away. so far away that he actually would be pinpoint of light. Like very bright star, not not something like a second selm. And that distance in itself. Tells you. That it might not have been bound very closely to our son so that if something. Came along another passing star, for example. With a bit more gravitational traction, it could have easily pulled it away because hundred fifty billion kilometers is a long way. So why do these scientists from Harvard think that there is evidence in the outer solar system that we might want this. Companion Star a one of them is what we've just been talking about Andrew the idea of planet nine now. ASSUMING THAT PLANET NINE will be found. So this bit of work in this part of the work makes these options that planet nine is really they're the go more evidence than just that which I'll come to in a minute. But if planet nineties found, he turns out that it's very difficult to. Explain its presence particularly elongated orbit. Without. The having been a binary star companion. In other words, if you find planet nine than that relatively strong evidence, some was once part of a binary system. You and I spoke recently about the idea that. Some scientists are thinking planet nine probably isn't that because they've reanalysed the the distant abalta objects whose elongated orbit into a line, which is the main reason why? People like Mike Brown who's one of the principal? Advocates for planet. He's at. Caltech. That's what they pointed to for the suggestion, the planet nineties that so other astronomers said, these alignments enough when you do the statistical analysis, there isn't an alignment of outer solar system objects. So planet nine isn't that. So that's one still in the in the mix and no doubt you and I will go on to talk about this for decades to Barra listeners today with the idea, the planet nine may or may not be the until found that that will sort out the answer. So. A quandary isn't if it's found. If. It's not fan we're GONNA keep looking for. Exactly. Until until the evidence for it disappears, but I, don't think it has done yet. On enthusiastic about planet nine I, think it will turn at one day and surprise us all. That means that you've got good evidence that maybe there was a binary complaining to the song. The other evidence though is something that we do know is there and that is the cloud this. Cloud of comet commentary. Daybreak. Really. It's it's very cool. Shout at a very high distance from the center of the solar. System way beyond the icy asteroids that we call the. Kuyper belt. And it's basically this sort of shell of of. Objects. Some of which. Fall into the solar system and we see them as comments it's that reservoir. If you like country debris proposed by John. A, about the time of the second, World War I think in the fifties was when he proposed idea an. Very, very convincing explanation for why we see comments coming into the inner solar system at all angles, they don't just coming in the plane of the system. and. Basically, you know the the ideas that we have the theories that we have full house solar systems of full saying that you should get this phenomenon. You should get a shallow of really icy objects way out in the depths of the solar system. That is very cool. Rather than flatlined the inner solar system. So we know the cloud exists, but it turns out that it is rather difficult to explain. It stability unless there was this second some in the solar system. So that is the evidence that the scientists point to principal evidence as well as planet nine. that. Is Why. It's why we We have cloud suggesting that for the first hundred, million of so years of the solar system's existence, which is actually a very small part of it bearing in mind that it's four point six billion years old. The the the the. The. That's when that companion style was lost. Because at that early in the solar system history, they would still be the stopped foaming region, the cloud of gas and dust that it was that it was formed. And so what you've got is a lot of other nearby stars which that distance as I mentioned earlier could pull it away because this is such a dense such, a high density within up foaming region. So that's why they said the movement there's an interesting. Paper on this, which is in the astrophysical journal letters one of the leading journals in astronomy. So it's not you know not fly by night idea coming from a bunch of crooks like you. Hates Ashley coming from. From a reputable university and it's a reputable journal. Yeah I, personally we there is a planet and we do find it I. Be a pretty exotic discovery, and hopefully they'll find it soon, I talked about the autocrat and how it might have existed because of a binary star. System. As you discussed does that suggest that other solar systems don't have clouds? That's right and that's something. We we really don't know about you know clouds essentially invisible. Road Planet. So often planets, they don't have any heat sources of their own that cold. That I see. The small enough that you don't really have any nuclear decay of uranium or anything like that. So the very, very difficult to detect and so. You know the the the the possibility is that then that may be no, it clowned around. Cloud around every star, but we just haven't got the wherewithal to observe it. On the other hand, as you say, if you only get into a clown, if you've got a staffel as a binary pair than. They might be rare although binary stars as I said at the beginning. Still, thought to be a actually in the majority in. In some like styles. Yeah. I suppose like me a lot of people think when you go bond restores it he's like that amazing saying that created in style wars with two big Sun's rising. But as you suggested the, they don't have to be close to be get together to be binary. So There's A lot more variation in in the definition of a binary than the papal might think. Yeah, exactly. So it's Telling you gravity works of a very long distances and things that are really long way about but it's still gravitationally bound to each other one. He's going round the other. Very. Interesting. All right. You are listening to the space nuts podcast Andrew Dunkley with Fred Watson. This is a cast recommends every week we pick one of our favorite shows and this is one we think you're gonNA love. Let's get real have. You ever wondered why adults are so obsessed with Disney I've seen park journalist Carl Wiesel and I'm right new podcast very amusing. I'm discussing every story secret in shenanigans to bring you an inside look at what's really going on there from secret spaces like Disneyland's private fifteen, thousand dollars dinner to surprising celebrity hot takes we're covering all of your curiosities subscribe to very amusing with Carlisle now on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcast. CAST is home to the biggest podcast from the US and around the world subscribed to this show and hundreds more now via AAC ASS or wherever you get your podcasts. Space Nuts. Now, if you would like to ask us a question we've decided we'd never going to do that again. So forget it. Or you can send us the question. Any way you like one of the ways you can send us a question is to go to a web sought spice nuts, podcasts, dot com click on the. Link and you'll find a record button and if you've got a divorce with a microphone and that can include a smart devos or a laptop computer or something along those lines just press records say I'm Fred and I want to know if such and such it's a simple as that and then you can just fi will download the question to our database and we will have it instantly it's really that simple or you can do it the old fashioned why I send it via email who would have thank that in two thousand twenty referring to a mile as the old fashioned way of sending us a question would be thing but there it is. But Yeah, we love your questions and please send them in. An effort we do have a question from pole in Sunshine Victoria. And Thank you both road sending issue question. I've often wondered why we haven't sent any spacecraft to urine nip in since voyager to I understand that the voyage probes took advantage of Jupiter and Saturn the lining with them and that we still need gravitational assistance from Jupiter however, surely every twelve years or so jupiter will be in a good position to help spice craft get to the gas giants. There is still. there's still so much to learn about these two planets and moons that scholley. There is the opportunity and we will explore the mysterious worlds further love the show thanks and regards Paul brings up a very good point we've we've done sat in, we've done Jupiter and we've done mas and we've done Venus and we've even done mercury that Neptune endurance, same sort of the the the second cousins twice removed. When? It comes to exploration. Is there any particular reason why we haven't gone back? They just boring not interesting They are interesting as I. Mentioned that there is giants there. They may have a nice cool. GASE envelope we. Call. Gus Chance. But the. They, have a different structure from Jupiter and Santa Genuine Gus John's. There John's because they further often the solar system cold. Regime of space the our interesting they've got you know you're in on side obviously had some kind of traumatic experience in the solar system that it it's rotation over by more than ninety degrees. All of these, both of these worlds have large retinues. Of of satellites. Some of which are quite large ones. and. There is a certainly. Many people within the planetary. Science. Community would love to see. Return missions to either one or the other a both of them. To have them aligned properly before you cover both. Simultaneously and not now not possible for. Lots of years until they until realign again. But I, think the bottom line is that those voices? Of people who would love to send missions back to those planets that kind of overwhelmed by. The. The the science it. In some ways is more exciting, more immediate. Because the bottom line is that there is only a limited bucket of funding that you can draw to to do this. Eight. If we had infinite funding for NASA, for example, that would have happened already but very such competition for space missions. And Not, cutthroat business, but it is a really difficult job to get your project above the above the horizon, even to get it to the starting line. And you and I have spoken before about missions, which you know got to the stage where feasibility study will be done. That happens and then you never hear again it's it's a really. Tight budgetary consideration. That's what does. The at the end of the day. So. Joey's money. Determined. Down, to there is exactly is pull says there is so much to learn about these two planets moons. was have not yet had the wherewithal to do it when you think you know even about Saturn. which is perhaps Certainly, among the most interesting planets in the entire solar system because of its ring system, we've we've sent one mission they're actually okay we find the voyages. Flying by, but there's only been one dedicated mission to Saturn Nuts Cassini. Look at what we learned from Cassini is just treasure trove of information not just about Saturn itself but about the way solar systems form and operate so really. That's that's a classic example. Cassini budgets was about sue. If I remember rightly about three billion dollars, which is a big ticket television in solar system exploration. Paul makes a very good point because Uranus Neptune As you said, and we we've never sent a dedicated mission to either of them and yet we have Pluto and that's further out is not. So how did that happen and the other was just a positional situation the time there was a little bit more to it. It's not just fast talking on the balanced the mission scientists for for for for neutralizes which went to Pluto. With Pluto. Pluto has a very elongated orbit as you know, and since nineteen eighty, nine I think it's been getting further and further away from the sun because it's an elongated orbit and that was felt in the planetary science community to be significant because. People thought if he's got any atmospheric tool, it's GONNA freeze out as he gets further and further away from the some. So there was an urgency to actually observe it. Soon as possible and that's also why new horizons was the Lamborghini spacecraft. Day was one of the fastest missions ever launched. Got There, within a within nine years in fact. Out to the distant solar system, it was done on the cheap, but it was astoundingly successful that was white new horizons go up whereas area renison net you mission would very much more circular orbits. Okay. So it was a case of go and if we're GONNA go now and we can always do the others lighter. Yeah. That was. Pretty simple or they pulled never say never but at the moment. I think. You're listening to space nuts and and Fred Watson We don't have another question Fred, but we are guy to visit my buddy, the space Doogie, which is back in the news. Now, the space doogie Mua Mua which was a or is a cigar shaped asteroid didn't actually come from Al part of the world sort of was just passing through from another place. Is Back in the news and at one stage I was suggesting or could be an alien spaceship. Well. That looks like it's being revisited as well. Why is it in the news again for it because? The theory that really I think a lot of people like the idea of and we talked about this that Moore remember as you said, it's shaped like a cigar something like four hundred meters long. Visited from another solar system past high-velocity through our solar system, and he's now off into the wild blue yonder and the the. Theory. That we discussed most recently was that it was a hydrogen iceberg something that had come from the central giant molecular cloud made a solid hydrogen and it was the hydrogen outgassing under the heat of the sun the caused the thrust that actually made this space this object. Behave in an unusual way because that that was why the alien theory came up in the first place that something is outgassing from Moore Moore. Causing it to this to strike from its gravitational path. But it's not shown any. Any evidence of cometary activity, but the hydrogen iceberg theory fit that bill well. Why is it in the news again because? Some of the the die hards of the alien theory and it's principally Avi Loeb, who's the head of the? Smithsonian. Institution. For A ASTROPHYSICS Avi is always provocative in looking for other possibilities. He and one of his colleagues have looked at the idea of. Molecular. Hydrogen. Thing being a Hodgin Iceberg and they've said it doesn't work. That actually, you don't get the things lasting long enough in order to survive journeys through interstellar space, and so they're back to the idea. Of It being a daily spacecraft. Nobody, believes them but it's very provocative and is very nice to To. To see re challenged in a sense. So. They strike in Layman's terms the theory that it's a hydrogen Osberg is being dismissed by them because the distances that it's had to travel to pass through all system with two great for it to survive the journey as a hydrogen aspects for it must be an alien spaceship. Is Right. That's a long bio longer. It is very very. I locked the look it's a long bar. I'll be love has a book coming out. Which? Is it's not yet released, but he's coming out apparently will be called extraterrestrial the first sign of intelligent life beyond earth. We'll see in January. So there you go. So this might just be you know. A bit of a publicity stunt for his new book. Would suggests that for me. The. Good luck. We wouldn't it be great if you turned out to be wrought, I think that would be amazing. And as you and I often say you just can't write off anything when it comes to spice. Stuff and astronomy science. There's so many on nine so why the heck not though Kauai to say he's book I'll speaking which it I have finished recording the. And in audio format that's great. That's such. Hard work. it's very hard work the editing annoy me but it's done. It's about a five to six hour audio experience. It's not available yet it's going through the ringer with the publisher. And once once if if it passes muster and that's the beef and I went now until next month I think. It will be available through just about every audio book outlet available. I. If and it's a bit of an experiment because It's a bit of a strange one because. There aren't too many avenues of Opportunity For Australian authors to Upload Audio. Books without having to pay a Mozart. and I certainly didn't want to do that. So I found a way around it through a through potty and the irony is the avenues are wanted to use it unavailable Estrella are available through the third party so Gregory's happy I'm glad Gregory's happy and I'm glad he might appearance. Anyway. I'll let you now. Um because we had quite a few people ask if they can get an audio copy and we nearly they on just it's going through quality control at the moment, which is pretty scary. anyway, we'll. We'll see how that turns out. And that wraps us up for yet another week. Fred Thank you great pleasure Andrew always good to talk. To talking again. Yes indeed our well, there's no talking this long periods of silence and that's A bit of a scary situation. Good to talk to you fred catches soon Fred Watson astronomer, lodge part of the team here on the space nuts podcast and for me Andrew Dunkley thank you. Again, we look forward to your company next time on another addition of space nuts as notes. To Spice Available at Apple podcasts, Google podcasts spotify, iheart radio, and your. Plan you can also stream on demand still Paul. This has been another podcast production from thoughts dot com.

Andrew Dunkley professor Fred Fred Watson Paul Sun NASA ACOSS Grace Roman Space Telescope Assad principal United Lanka Nancy Grace Roman Victoria Youtube mass. Nassar Ohio State University apple
168: Microbial Life Transport Theory. What??

Space Nuts

35:09 min | 1 year ago

168: Microbial Life Transport Theory. What??

"In fifteen seconds guidance been journal and nine technician sequence spence nuts three to two meals good here we go again with another episode of the space nets. Let's podcast. My name is andrew with me as always is professor fred watson. Hello fred dunkley. How are you well. Thank you still alive which is good. That's and i hear that <hes> katmandu now has a twitter page. It does in in in response to popular not popular demand. He has his own twitter feed. He woke up this morning. Just long long enough to sign in and then he went off noughties breakfast and went back to sleep but within five minutes he had four followers. I think he's got a lot more than that. Now because people people on the space nuts podcast page have been asking for a photo of man so i did put that up and a with the twitter links identify. He's had to have many more friends very very soon. Well be very good because god knows he needs. That's ever wakes up to actually instant messages. That's great news. He's a funny. All fellow is man do now today fred. We've got a couple of things to talk about that are of great interest when we're talking about life and how it gets around the planet something could be said for how it gets around the universe as well perhaps perhaps because they've looked at how microbes travel on earth and they get around they do get around and we'll explain that very soon we've also found an earth sized rocky exit planet which could be could be law sustaining except for one minute glitch from what i read very very quickly and we had some some questions we got a question only yesterday in fact from a young and fellow who messaged me and said i'm not sure where to ask questions. Is this okay. I think it came up as a facebook message and i said yeah sure i'll send it to fred and and what are you going to tackle it. Straight up about flying fly out astronauts. I think the basic crux of the question so we'll we'll look into that there was also also a question following on from something we talked about recently and that was the israeli crash on the moon that may have you know put life on the moon in advertently and someone says well you know okay they broke into national law by doing that but what about chang a. four four with its frogs and dogs and everything else and <hes> we've got a question from dear old school friend of mine who found on me recently. I've been trying to hide from school france but they've tracked me down. I don't know how they do it and he wanted to talk about warp drive so we'll be tackling all of those things on this episode one hundred sixty eight of the space nuts podcast and that's all we have time for this way now i i now. I now use that jack a lot but it's one of my dear circles to the bone. Yes indeed to tell you under hours you mean you haven't managed yet because on management now this first story is is all about how life can move around and i've been looking at microbial life and how it disperses using dust as a transporter this this is rather fascinating in probably could open the door into how life my of moved around the universe even that's correct. It's <hes> it's it's a piper a scientific paper with very dry title which is alien transporter viable viable microbial life across the atacama desert chile implications from mars and i think most of those are from the chilean spanish institutions but what they have done. I think that spanish actually from from a mother consent throw the lord as my best spanish. It's rubbish by the mind anyway. That's the university the city of madrid astrology astro biology center about madrid it will be the university that's right so what they've done is really really neat experiment to do they've gone to the atacama desert and i was in the atacama desert about a month and a half ago but not doing experiments that that was looking at the scenery. So what they've done is that drives place on earth pretty well apart from buffer montoc ticker is very very dry and he's a desert and it's warm and is near the equator so it's got pretty hefty ultraviolet bombardment from the sun's ray so there's a fair chunk of radiation there but what they did was they basically collected bacterial and fungal entities species. He's from basically areas where the <hes> you know <hes> on either side of the the the hardest bitterly atacama and they were able to drill the draw the conclusion that the species a different enough that that sort of indigenous species if i put it that way were different enough so that they won't shed between the two. I thought they found that that is evidence <music>. I'm not quite sure how they did this. I need to read the paper and a bit more detail but the recipients that the living organisms can actually move across the desert that they say they. They've basically taken samples. The demonstrate that these guys came from the other side but the now on the on the far side of the atacama desert so then they may have done species comparisons and say well this one couldn't have been born he doc staff and that could have happened was transport transport. That's correct or as it's called alien transport the paper so what they were trying to do was essentially just ask. The question can microbial life disperse. You know on dust that that that's the key thing that these things hitch a ride on dust particles which is transported by the wind in the desert and y the main point is that the atacama desert is kind of analog model for the planet mars because mars is dry and his co. Winds much much less atmospheric pressure bunch low temperature and of course the other issue is that that is a high level of solar radiation and karachi cosmic radiation from bombarding the surface of mars. You've got to kind of rule that one out and say well. We don't know about the radiation but the the fact that <hes> as they say that paper a number of viable bacteria and fungi are in fact able to traverse the driest and most u._v. <unk> irradiated the desert on earth unscathed using wind transported dust particularly. They not in the later afternoon hours. That's when you'd think things were worst. Suggestion is that that microbial life on mars and they say extant or past may have similarly benefited from alien transport bought a on the wind to move across the planet and find suitable habitats to thrive in evolves so it's a really interesting experiment of an interesting finding that they've done this. This suggests that maybe like groups could zoom around on the window laws. I suppose for a micro by speck of dust would be like a planet yes that's right and and in those circumstances for micro died believing in a micro environment so the outer atmosphere or the atmosphere is we know wouldn't be not the same for them. They often be living in micro bubbles of water and things like that. Would they not there would if there was any water yeah he was anymore it but yeah that's right so i think you points well made that they they are taking a ride on bits of dust and so that will be that whole environment in a sense of the fact it is being blown around on the wind is not necessarily detrimental to their existence what might be detrimental is that things up by cosmic rays and things things bother being blown around which will probably be the case on yeah okay but it does sort of open the door <hes> into how microbes can you can travel and whether or not a tap into on other planets like mas or some other rocky exoplanet one of which we're going to talk about shortly <hes> <hes> it's starting to the evidence is building more and more about the potential for mcreavy life to exist probably probably is more than anything quite so <hes> and i suppose the question then comes up as to whether or not they could survive <hes> spice travel on asteroids of the like and some you know that's the big theory of <hes> fred toyland chandra wickremesinghe missing microbes zoom around the solar system on bits of dustin find a way to like us and in case it was <hes> just write the party and you shall not too hot to cold exactly all right. I'll be interested interested to see more of this research as it comes out and what else they can learn the atacama desert. I've never been to you have an it sounds like a fascinating applies but here's a few places in the world where they've they've sort of looked at. This is what mars would be like. Let's see if we can live here for six months. Stein end environment and it would be tough. You're listening to space nuts andrew dunkley and fred watson's. Thanks nuts okay for straight under these extra planet that has been spotted with finding them at a right. I did not say these days. We've hit the tens of thousands in terms of numbers or over ten thousand. I think is the number four thousand four thousand with with another. I think another six hundred candidates from the still remaining from the space mission is because they getting the dot of it. It's the analysis that takes the time and so the cat until they've done the analysis benowitz. Get ten thousand from but we'll get. We'll be alone you quite right. We'll go along um. This one is just three four bay. What's special about this. One chess usually means left hand side but it doesn't in this case. It's a catalog name but it has been observed by two nasa space telescopes to find out more about it so i like chess three eight. Four four b is about an o._s. Planet in orbit around the red dwarf star forty light years. He is away as the crow flies so it's been known since two thousand eighteen and it was discovered by tests which is the transiting exoplanet survey anti-satellite but nasa spacecraft and what tests let you do basically what it does is it looks for the dip in brightness of a style when the planet passes in front of it and if you know the damage of the style and you know you do physical properties and then if you know oh how much the planet has dimmed the stands light you basically know how big the planet in terms of its time and this one turns out to be about one point three times the diameter of the earth so what you might call a super earth however the next step was to try and investigate it's atmosphere and for that you need different <hes> different assist all a different facility than <hes> than the tests spacecraft and and so what they used was necessary spitzer satellite spitzer is the name of an infrared telescope actually <hes> it's one that can look at what we call thermal emission which is the <hes> the the heat radiation the heat signature of of any object and so <hes> spitzer was looked up to study the way the infrared light from both the planet and the star. This is a tricky bit. You've got you basically get both together because you can't separate one from the other in the field of view of the telescope looking at essentially a single object the planet too close to the star to be resolved as we say you don't see it as a separate entity. How close is it well. It's close enough that one year for this planet senate electchester thirty eight forty four b. One year is actually eleven of our hours. Oso eleven hours is quite a quick year and quite rapid turnover in birthdays. I ice and things like that. Yes now what that means because it means all day what it means is that because he's so close <hes> this phenomenon of tidal breaking will have slowed down its rotation so always keeps the same face towards the some so what that means is. It's going to have a side and a cold side but they might not be that different. If the planet has an atmosphere so what you're looking for is some way of being able to find out you know whether the hot side of the planet side facing some of the cold side different similar in temperature so the way you do that is very very clever if you imagine the time when the planet is translating across the face of the star so it's it's going across the stars <hes> disk. We don't see that always as the point of light <hes> but the spitzer telescope can look that amount can basically look the the combination of the star and the duck side of the planet on it and work out how much hate is being radiated from the dockside of the planet the follow the logic there because that's the side. That's facing you that you know the amount of radiation that's coming from the star club the planet in the middle of the star disc as it goes around in orbit then do the same measurements again what what you get also includes the contribution of the planet itself which turns out to be not much more than absolute zero. It's very very cold on the side away from the style then you wait till the planet the five and a half hours. If it's an eleven year wait for five and a half hours until the planet is just about to go behind the star on the other side of its orbit and what you've got there is an observation of the star aw with the daylight side of the planet facing you and so you can make the same measurement you can work out what the daylight side temperatures and it is seven hundred seventy degrees celsius found so you've got this huge difference absolute zero one side nearly not that far above the big advantage paying. If you've got an eleven how year you're going to have a really quick suntan to joy birthday the exact fact he bought before. I never mind up so so that i'll not planet. You've got these two very distinct sides the day side and the nightside with this you know almost thousand degree temperature difference between them dot all that suggests that there is no trace of an atmosphere must feel that because if that was <hes> you would expect while probably very high winds between the side and the gold sign but you would expect expect temperatures to be even doubt they are largely on venus a a plus around the sub because its atmosphere is so so think then that tends to even out the temperature <hes> between the dos the day side and the nightside on this particular object chess thirty eight forty four. That's not happening thank you so the inference is that it does not have an appreciable atmosphere so even though it's a nice roomy planet just a bigger than the earth. It's got not much to offer for in terms of breath ability so would it be fair to say it's more akin to album mercury mercury negligence it because mercury's hot on one side freezing cold on the other concern and people might have trouble getting their heads around that because mercury so close to the sun in but you can you can do the experiment when you standing in the sun and then step retrea is the same effect isn't it. It's very similar. Yes anyway so this one no good for cosmic holidays but i think starting undefined candidates that may will be potentially livable planets and as we previously discussed with the way back microbial life can travel and fungal life and they may well be live on those planets if they have liquid water. That's the key. Ingredient bruno's won't be yes to the story. Andromeda mentioned that this research has been done by strong as the harvard smithsonian center vastra physics in cambridge massachusetts one of the great names james in astronomical institutions so the suddenly the lead author is fantastic all right well. There's there's another nonconformist conformist planet into the life experiment but we looking on looking this is space nuts your listening to enter john kelly but mostly fred watson space nuts afraid before we hit some and questions once again a big shout of appreciation to our patrons who signed up at patriotair dot com slash patient space shuttle the pace nuts pretty speedy so forty four people now fred who contributing to the space nuts that is fantastic. We just thrilled that you enjoy it enough to one put a couple of dollars in the teen so fantastic well done thank you and i also want to mention the space nuts podcast group and i did tell you that i've put a federal mandate up there for all to see and we're getting comments. Yes so that's good too. If you want to join the space nuts podcast group just put searching for it and just put put your request in to join and that's all there is to it to sit back and wait and after a few weeks of committee meetings and bureaucratic nonsense we will probably approve it pending the approval but then <hes> we might just say straightaway and if you do have questions questions for us a lot of people say where to us in questions the space podcast group is designed for you to talk to each other and discuss barrier astronomical things so that's what it's for we do often get questions through our official facebook page which is fine but we find the best swipe do it is to send them to our website bites b. I t. e. S. zayd dot com slash space nuts down down the quantum of that page as i little <hes> contact us alive message or comment for us spice phil at app and that'll get straight to us and those questions get fed immediately too afraid in myself so that's probably the best way i._t. Dot com slash spice snacks and that's where you can listen to all their episodes as well. Although we're also on google podcast apple podcasts spotify stitcher pod bay in i heart radio podcasts cass box and you can even save up your own hours this podcast plenty of ways to to keep in touch with us now fred. Let's hit this first question. This one allen came in yesterday from for me. Young fellow named devon devon lee. I hope i'm pronouncing that properly devon hello andrew my question is would it ever be feasible to send astronauts to work in space daily or possibly by daily so the astronauts can return home to help retain calcium in their bones as well as send smaller smaller cheaper rockets just as an astronaut shuttle shuttle. I believe this would be an interesting experiment that would at the very least help us improve smaller reusable rocket look at technology as well as minimize the white time for astronauts to leave the earth. Thank you for the education and entertainment and have a great day. Devon great question fred was really keen to have a god. If there's one thing yeah it's i mean theoretically it could happen but it seems to fly in the face of all we know about space travel at the moment <hes> and it is you know that the correct devon smacking the correct comments comments about things like calcium in the bones because sunny that's one of the things that bone density as one of the things that gets lost by astronauts and but i think the the real answer is that it is not going to be practicable just because of the length of time the human body aches to adapt to space so you need that <hes> duration in zero gravity to able to work effectively <hes> in in space ace eight. I was in a couple of times actually recently at medical conferences which have been concerned with the effects of space light on the human body. I wanna particular. I got a whole lot of information about the the effects of weightlessness on that very profound. You know they make a big difference to your body <hes> but you get used to them on on so you can function really well if you take the time in the new environment so it's a bit like getting over jet lag. Now i know some of my colleagues the this done it for something like four days but i know people have gone to europe for a weekend from australia and then come back again. Coming is is that they didn't have time to get the jet lag at the other end the they canceled out by the time they got bought comb an actually the it's a couple of times on my short trips. I've been a little bit of evidence of this but still i think <hes> going into is quite different thing. You're expending ending a lot of energy to get up to that eight kilometers per second that you need to stay in orbit and <hes> basically dock with the international space station then. You've got to slide down to come back to earth. I think that's the killer so the expense. I imagine yes so it just gonna about to talk about that. So the moment you know the canonical price if i can put it that way accepted price for sending things into overseas about twenty thousand dollars per kilogram is possible with spacex is use of reusable boosters now that might come down even by as much as a factor of ten this the different slant till the expense but i don't think the economics of it will be much better to send people up there for a reasonably like. Did you arrive at the moment. It's six months standard stay. They would cost them one million six hundred thousand dollars to send main despite workout you weigh one and a quarter tons. Is that right. They had an extra nought knows may be added calculation so you with your pencil type of that's dangerous in itself medical history at school the degrees great idea but not feasible yet might oh i think visible in the future maybe <hes> maybe not day-trips maybe maybe shorter stints than they do at the moment like the do several wakes and even months sometimes longer these days but the they the the price you pay on your body's is pretty heavy and that's one of the big challenges challenges especially if we're going to send people mas which is starting to look less and less likely at this stage but there's so many challenges we have to have to overcome devon so thanks for the question and hopefully that gave you the answer you may or may not been looking for now. Let's move onto the next question. Firstly thanks for great podcast asked always interesting in good to listen to it has talking about recently you were discussing the crash of sheet on the moon and the fact that it violated the planetary protection protocol by carrying todd grades. Yes we did talk about that. My question is how is this different to the janghi. Four craft raft sending <unk> carrying seeds fruit flies some of which within germinated in a bias fee many thanks russell from walking ham. Is it walking ham in go right retain probably working. I i can't see the question of the state but copies of everything is so the answer is yes. It is no different and so the planet <unk> protection detection rules. <hes> get really stringent. When you going to somewhere like myers that's got an atmosphere in could have its own viable population of <hes> of microbes the the the much reduced when he's talking about going to a subject line with no atmosphere in fact the mercury and the asana other places that you might visit without too much too much worry on the planetary protection rules. I think to some extent there's a there's a pragmatism about the yes. China four took took a was it fruit fruit flies and i think some seedlings as well which it's germinated but didn't last very long i think only lasted twenty four hours a fourteen thousand something like that <hes> but the so how does that negate right you know how does that sit with the planetary protection rules is probably okay but i think with with very sheets the <hes> the israeli experiment. I don't know that there was any announcement made that these things were going to the moon before event. Maybe you know the protocol would dictate. That trump should say yes. We're going to send few microbes up there or whatever and i think they get the tick of approval. I mean you know the the bottom. Line is we've sent human. Pinkston moved bags of mike had just rancid bags of bacteria in yourself. Eh viral load is high. That's why you redouble. He has no water and he gonna any water. That's right well so you won't have any microbes not anyway. I think that's the bottom line is it's a very let's put it that way and it will become even greyer when we started sending people to mars because of places what to go. We'll be the places where you've really require. What's called category for sterilization. I think it's foresee which is the most stringent didn't and says that you must have no more than thirty spores post vice craft bacteria talking about then you put a person in there with mrs it up doesn't it and of course most of the astronomical world is stunned that israel would do that without telling anyone but china. Oh my oh my gosh how could they. I've already been there so i'd have to go back and get arrested in surrounding a gulag for dizzying jonah. We'll live it right there. Next question very much appreciated <hes>. Let's move on to another one. This is from tony buzek tiny and i went to school together data and as i said earlier on how he found me up in hiding at here for so long but some of them are school nights have started tracking me down so tony's a recent <hes> <hes> join the ranks of the space nuts fraternity so welcome along tony happy looking after my hometown. He says my burning question. Regards physicist meal miguel l. qibiya basis on warp drives like is star trek. His theory suggests it would be possible to travel faster than the speed of light by not moving as your spacecraft would be inside a bubble of space that can travel it spades that space itself is capable of the journey to alpha centauri could take as little as two weeks as opposed to something like four point one light years or one hundred ninety thousand years at normal rocket speed which i'd prefer ken for a disgust this or is this something you've discussed in previous episodes. Yes we have thanks tiny and that's. Let's leave it for this night. We've talked about it but it's worth investigating again because this this is a theory. This is a concept the has been brought forward as a potential <hes> y of traveling whether or not it's feasible verses. The theory is another matter. It's real. It's a really interesting idea. Which i confess. I haven't looked at the work of miguel al could be adas or whatever his name is <hes> his work <unk> drives but the equipment right that space expands a has it's expanded we know in the past in such a way that to places in space being separated by greater than the speed of light that certainly it happened but that's spaces a whole now how you isolate a bubble of space that is going to do something different from that is is a very interesting question. I cannot think of any way in physics or metaphysics that you've been able to do that. <hes> because does your space time itself is the underlying fabric that we are attached to chopping out a little bit of it to go its own way is a difficult thing. Then you've got the problem i mean difficult by the possible probably but then you've got the problem of whether you get the energy from track celebrate it to these extraordinary speeds and i do remember reading is probably about ten years ago even longer more like twenty probably <hes> some work that was done i think in university college london and by specialists in relativity <hes> who an you and i spoke about this before andrew but they they looked at the you know the the the demand for warping space literally walking's base so that you bring to places closer hosted together and travel between them faster than the speed of light so that's the principle of the warp drive and the bottom line was the us up more than the more than the entire energy budget of the universe to do that so you can't do it but you need more energy than the universe universe actually possesses so that makes it a bit tricky. I'm so i think these things will always remain in the realm of science fiction unt unless there is a breakthrough of a very weird kind at my guess is that it wouldn't be to do with whooping space that it will be something to do with getting getting down to quantum mechanics getting into things like quantum teleportation things of that sort but we haven't done that yet so i. Why do i still reckon the time will come when they'll they'll crack this one. It might take a few thousand years not but i do think that will crack at one day. Well that's right yeah see some. It's a fund hope sofa down the trap. Never going to see the first intimate i think a and unless we get that time machine yes taught my time machine. I don't know what's wrong with it today but it was fine tomorrow. Sorry about and it's very good one. I'll look it's worth telling once in a lifetime but then you can go back that comment here it again all right thanks to the question. The answer is not yet but maybe one day many many moons down the dry. It is a good ati and thank you to everyone who contributed this way. You can thank you for listening and thank you for chasing up podcast group group and to patrons to everybody and thank you for it as always it's. It's fantastic fund and we'll do it again next week. I hope we will sounds good. Thanks hundred season. The professor fred watson astronomer. Lodge joins us every week here on space and that says do i and we you can join us again next week. For another episode of space space nuts to this podcast subscribe to the podcast on and stitch-up or your favorite podcast distributed this vein another quality podcast production from dot com.

atacama desert fred watson fred andrew dunkley twitter spitzer facebook mercury professor fred dunkley atacama China technician tony buzek senate madrid chile europe chess
The One with the Cockatoo

SpaceTime with Stuart Gary

48:22 min | 2 months ago

The One with the Cockatoo

"I love this podcast. Support this show through the acoss supportively. Joe it's up to you how much you give. And there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the short description to support now. Fifteen seconds guided been journal and admission sequence. Uh nuts three to report report. It feels good. I once again. Thank you for joining us. This is the space nets podcast episode. Numba two hundred and forty four. Oh my goodness. I was listening to someone the other day. Scott about the ram two hundred episode of whatever podcast. They do one of the one of the australian national television networks. We've done two hundred episodes two hundred and forty three point one. Yes got a lot more than us. It could all over any second andrew both well as possible. Yes and of course you heard from him already you my partner in crime professor fred. What's earn. hello morning andrew. how are you today. I am well sir. We're anticipating rain. It's going to be very windy for the next week with rich. That time of the year with the wind starts to whip up as the season changes. We find this. Tom of you very very windy so not looking forward to that. I'm not a win. I and i have paint win. One person like a bit of wind. We've come the rain already. Shows going through from get it before us. Well it's coming coming in from coming in from central australia. So it's coming in from the northwest out of out of queensland and in fact the system that's coming through is crossing the entire continent which is extraordinary. Don't usually see that kind of system but yes indeed. We're looking forward to this. It'll just i think. A lot of places are going to get their monthly average in the next two dice which is certainly broken. The drought now coming up on this episode of space. Nuts fred. we're going to discuss the probability that esther royds quite common. Not just the one or two space duties we're going to. We're getting dumped on from a great height as it turns out there's also a new twist on super messy. Yeah sorry about that new twist on supermassive black holes and we're going to tackle a couple of questions someone's asked a question about planet nine and spiral galaxies. It's all on space nuts this week and thank you for joining us by the way but before we get to all of that fred. I'm little update on nasa's perseverance rover. Has it moved another two and a half meters. Perhaps no move yet again. But what they've done now is six and a half meters come on. What more do you want birdie around the globe. That's what i want. I think they'll be coming. I'm sure so what we've seen. Though is the testing out of facility. Which is really super impressive. It's got a name that super as well as call super cam and cam is is mounted on the on the master of of perseverance and swivel around. Look at things but it can do five different sorts of analysis. Whatever it's looking at two to study the geology of miles and basically it'd be one of the things that will assist scientists in choosing what samples to to cash in order that they can be brought back to a later on so they'd be doing health checks on super can an all it systems. An apparently everything is in super-duper working you order one of the things that's super camp. Is that microphone that we heard sound from before you remember. We heard the sound of the wind on not after touchdown. Actually we got that recording. They've they've recorded something a little bit more. Earth like the the sound of their lasers upping the rocks because this super cam has a laser zaps the rocks. And what you do is then the sort of little plume of gas. That comes off. The rock is allies by the instruments on board so there is a confirmed. Yes it's iraq talk but is it contains all those building blocks of life that we're looking for and perhaps satan signs of me nonsense and things of that sort of proteins anyway. That's very exciting. But an unnecessary tend to recording of the laser zapping the rock. Which you don't have to hand. But i can tell you what it's like because i can do it. It just goes. Did you get died. A similar sound when now has a similar sound years ago when i was getting my eyes lies it. It's the same thing as you can see. It would to pluses yet anyway. So that's big step. It is people are very excited by this few places where he can find the images that except back some spectacular fred. Your definition images are incredible dot. Try the these pictures of the rocks that they're looking at which just like rocks but you know when you see the detail on them and you think goodness on mars. This is just a stunning. It's great stuff. Yeah it is date so on the progress we will well good from yes And and you know at the right way going. By the time we get to episode Three hundred and forty four space nuts. Perseverance will have moved. Maybe nine point two males who knows nobody from the jet propulsion arteries listening to this on their driving skills. It's a mistake to do. I hope they know joking. But i'm told a lot of people. Don't get the estrada sits if you because we self-deprecation sarcasm of pretty common slice too. I love it. Love it love. She'll be right guy. Let's move onto the next topic and this is one of my favorite topics as you alluded to your email when you sent me. It's the space back in the news. And the probability that these things are being flung at us from other solar systems on a regular basis. How so well. It's actually early studies before which you always refer to as the spice dooby do whatever i always. I still think it looked like a breadstick andrew nelson. I'll stick with the space the space baguette. This baseball of course they we all the studies before that was discovered suggested that we would from time to time visited in the inner solar system by objects from from other solar systems. Basically things that have been slung out their own solar system wanted through space for a few million years and then they pass through house. Never going near to anything to be caught by by gravity. Although it's possible that that could happen accidentally one of these. Things came near enough to venus. All the sun could end up being a satellite of venus which should be good cops already or planet of the sun. That's not happened to this. The odds of that very very low. But the odds of something coming through the solar system from time-to-time chhaya these things called pious os or interstellar objects and they basically. That's that's what coach is is that they don't belong to our solar system sometimes called akzo objects or excellent bodies so when Third wave to events drew because it was twenty seventeen when moore came through but then actually less than two years later the second to stellar object came through and it's a comet called off discovered by mr bar is off in ukraine or russia. He discovery told us that comments as well because that was definitely a he got near. The sony started beaming out the plasma that comets release in fact an analysis carried out on those that showed that actually the comet has the same sorts of materials refined in comments on the earth or in the solar system so is distributed. Commodore gary the might be the debris from the remnants have come so that might be what makes the oceans but anyway but the fact that now we've seen these two means you could put you can put a much bigger emphasis on our get a much better idea of how frequently they might turn up and that work because now be done. There is an organization called i four. I s which stands for initiative for interstellar studies. Sometimes i four s with the number four between initiative for interstellar studies which is really sprung from this but members of that institute and a number of other institutes of done. This research on looking at how many of these things might fly. And there's a lovely quote that i want to read to you because it is really. I think quite stirring it comes through marshall eubanks. Who's the chief scientist of of a number of different private companies space initiatives asteroid initiative. He can tell her these things going. But this is a lovely quotes. He says just by proving that they exist in other words because these two things came through the solar system it has a profound effect creating a field of study almost from nothing field that funding authorities are just beginning to really recognize interstellar objects provide us with the opportunity to study and in future literally touch extra bodies decades before the earliest possible missions to even the nearest stars such as proxima centauri so stirring words and react to that. I think it's quite true. These things provide an opportunity. If we can have the wherewithal to grab or at least to do a fly by of wanted to put all these like the super can't type instruments and see what these things you have made of do all the rest of it so there's a number of different kinds of missions that are proposed but before i get to that. Let me just mention that. The studies now indicate that roundabout seven of these interstellar objects probably pass through the solar system every year. And the issues detecting them. You've got to pick them up with us. We could do that now. Because we've got this. This was going to say flotilla. But they're not floating array of of of near objects telescope discovers truckers. Things like stars to their on haleakala on the island of maui instruments of that kind which are able to look for a moving through the solar system. Usually they're objects belonging to the solar system. But they can't pick up these others as well. So i think the estimate now is around about seven interstellar asteroids per year but only about two into stella a comex. The that rare. Perhaps it's partly because of the dynamics have come comets normally hang out on the on the boundaries of solar systems and occasionally get disturbed to fall in the thing about comics is generally speaking very small that nucleus of a comet is only probably seldom more than twenty thirty kilometers across and then forms this beautiful town when he gets near the some asteroids route about the same size probably brighter. It's a very dark on the surface as well so anyway. Whatever the deal is it looks as though there are enough of these to really think about how you might into set them. How you might you know. Basically further research on them. There is actually another another quotation. I think again from dr eubank. We assume that come from are formed with stars and their planetary systems. The after they are sorry and after the after they're on their own. They share the same galactic dynamics stars to another ones. This is how you start doing statistics. For how these things might swirled around the galaxy. We use the to known isos. One one i am. The one i refers to it being the first interstellar object detected to i borisov the efficiency of past and current astronomical surveys to estimate the number of these objects in the galaxy and stellar velocity estimates from the guy of mission. A mission looks at the positions of stars very accurately to estimate the velocity spread That we should expect. And as i said they think there might be seven astroid coming into in and to to perhaps a largely a biggie. Pardon they dropped that statistic. It's not to per year it once every ten to twenty years. So they are much rarer become comments. You may. Yeah it is. I'm just wondering how they differentiate between local comets and asteroids that are now solar system and the ones coming from the outside that being flying at us by people who obviously lock is very much but Is it all about the angle. Is it all about the angle of the tack the spayed or it's it's those sorts of things angles lesson bonkers comments long period comets come from all angles out the cloud which is to the wrapped around the solar system but the the key thing is the speed because he you know these two objects were both traveling at speeds that could not have bound to the solar system in other words. There was no way that we're never gonna stop and go around the sun. I think who was roundabout twenty six kilometers per second. It's it's highs philosophy which is very much above the escape velocity of the solar system so it comes and goes. I think it's more a case of its. it's gone. oh look this earth accelerate. And maybe that's right. Nothing flurry still got this puzzle. It did seem to have some non gravitational forces acting on it which thought to be perhaps ejected material coming from it the boosted direction. Still the theory that it might be alien that avi avi lobes idea that an is. He's just published a book about that. Well this way to be a best seller probably the e-eh. I think the what they've suggested just going into detail of this. But how do you how do you intercept them. One way to have things. I think we've talked about this before. How things orbiting in space that are spacecraft that have got a mega kinda lumbini rocket boosters attached to them and they're just waiting in orbit for something to go past. I think suggestions where you might have three of these spread around the us orbit and then once the once cited something you hit the button. Send off in the right direction to chase after whatever it is And seeking photograph which would be a good start fantastic different image. I mean we you know it. A pin sell issue whether you're is an alien spacecraft if we could go to close up photograph well it's being chased by tesla. So you never know though shots there was i mean i think ilan must did look closely at whether they could mount edition from nice x. Hardware to to chase after not possible would never catch it now. And i think that's been part of the problem so far. These things have passed us before we realized that were they. I mean we were. We were asleep for new because it was christmas and we just went what we really need to probably find them before they get here. Just in case they getting a bit too close become the actually borisov was detected before before that it before it passed the closest. But but even that you know the speed was was too high but it didn't mean strongest could get a good look at it which is why we know it had these various chemicals in its coma. Okay well keep your eyes peeled coming into. It can fire i into this. Is the space nuts. Podcast with fred watson that him and andrew dunkley space nuts. Welcome back. Thanks for listening to the space nets podcast on whatever platform you choose we. You can find just about anywhere these days. Whatever your favorite podcast distributaries. Yes thanks for listening or watching if you're a youtube and if you're a supporter of the space and that's podcast financially. We just want to send it at thanks. We've had a few more people sign up in the last week or so through patriot and supercars. So thank you for doing that. It's just a couple of bucks a month to put into the kiddie. We are aiming of course to make space and that's totally and utterly use. A focused use a supported listener supported rather than going down the commercial lawn. Which is what we are doing at the moment but in time if we can get you know a thousand patrons it'll be about us we'll just look after each other and that's that's what we're moving towards so if you'd like to become a patron you can do that through our website. Spice and that's podcasts. Dot com up in the top rod hand corner. There's a button called support. Space nuts. took us a long time to think of a name for that button. Many committee meetings. That's what we decided to support space. And that's click on that and different options or pop up on your screen. Choose whichever one you want you can if you want to make a donation you can do a one of their nation to repay powell's well it's totally up to you to those who have signed up and ran dropping a few dollars in the bucket every month. Thank you greatly appreciate it now. Fred. let's move onto our next topic and this is one that once again we're gonna be talking about black holes because they are the most mysterious things in the universe and people got all sorts of theories about them we. We're only just now starting to create images of them and now we've discovered that day they might be another pace to this fascinating puzzle of supermassive black holes. What are they found out. Now and he's it's scary scary injured. It is that black holes could move. They they can actually take all the movement of their own. And that makes it even more steps. Gary because it comes up the idea of things moving through space which are independent and able to do their own thing. But it's not actually quite as bad as that so what we have is some research that has been done on whether the black holes of the centers of galaxies and we know that supermassive black holes. Because we've discussed those many many times. We think most galaxies have a supermassive black hole at the centre. Whether those those black holes can actually move independently of their host galaxy. And that's something. That's a little bit counterintuitive because the reason why this thing sitting at the center of the galaxy is because he's not moving everything's kind of swirling around it but strontium is at the center for physics have a private university. they've actually found an example of a supermassive black hole that is moving relative to its parent galaxy or host galaxy. So there's a really nice quote that actually sums it up. I'm always very happy to quote the scientists who are doing the work here rather becky up my words. This is dominic. Pearce is an astronomer that the center for astrophysics at harvard. He is actually the leader of the study. Says we don't expect the majority of supermassive black holes to be moving. There usually content to just sit around but he says they're just so heavy that it's tough to get them going. Consider how much more difficult it is to kick a bowling ball into motion than it is to kick a soccer ball realizing that in this case the bowling bowl is several million times the mass of our sun that is going to require a pretty mighty and so what they've done is exactly that they looked at a galaxy in fact survey ten galaxies and looked the the black holes that caused. I'll put a bit more detail on that in a minute. But the galaxies that fairly easy to measure their motion you basically just use an optical spectra after noble way that we do measure the movements and galaxies. You've got to essentially got to filter out what we call the hubble flow which is the movement of the galaxy because of the expansion of the universe. So they did that for distant galaxies but the black holes are a different kettle of fish. How do you measure the velocity of a black sea. It to what they have to do is look at the accretion discuss the swirling disk of material that is around the black hole swirling around being sucked in and they specifically looked for black holes whose accretion discs contain water. Now it probably vaporized water but it's h two and as that water gets excited. It does something very similar. To what a laser does it becomes selling called a mazer. Mazer is well. Laser is light application by the stimulated emission of radiation stands for sorry about all the cogs joining its story. The door open fully. Shouldn't into fish done. Explain for those who don't know cockatoos big wide gala. Type birds with a sulpha. Kristen their heads and they get very excited. And i. it's usually gangs have hundreds and hundreds. Yeah we've got a lot a lot of the map to peace and quiet. Finish this story so it was a a major is the same thing but with microwaves. In fact moses came. I actually back in the fifties when these things were being developed maser microwave applications application by the stimulated emission of radiation and a similar phenomenon to a laser. You get this basically a beam of radio waves and that allows the radio antennas of any a set of radio as usually the use. Something covy i'll be i which is very long baseline interferometry. You can actually measure that philosophy with great accuracy. And so that's what they've done they've used these mazes to measure the naturally occurring mazes to measure the velocities of the black holes compared with velocity of the galaxy. A nine out of ten were arrested. Black holes were sitting doing nothing much. He said the center of the galaxies. But one actually wasn't one was moving at fifty kilometers per second relative to its parent galaxy and so the next issue is okay. What's what's causing it to move one of the one of the other One of the other scientists working at of these projects. Jim condoleeza radio astronomy at the national radio astronomy observatory in the united states. He says what possibilities is. We may be observing the aftermath of two supermassive black holes merging. the results of such a merger can cause the new black blackhawks to recoil. And we may be watching it in the active recoiling or is it settles down again. So that's something that ties with the work that people have done and gravitational wave of strong we see black holes merge but the other possibility is there might be you might be looking at a black hole. That's part of a binary black hole to black holes orbiting around one another. What you might be seeing here is a black coal one of which has the accretion disk so it causes the maser radiation. But the other doesn't have that it's a much quieter one and so you don't see the effect of the second black hole you've got one that's visible one. That's not. it might be only the motion that tells you that they are two parts of a binary to two parts. A pair of black holes gravitationally connected really interesting stuff. It will be many further operations. I think just to find out what's going on but it's really quite a new line of study. I mean we've talked about black holes ad infinitum over the last forty years or however long space is going but we've not talked about the rounded saga galaxies. Now now a bit. I suppose when you consider that just about everything in space is moving for one reason or another. It makes sense doesn't it. Provide from black holes moved to the fact that they merge from time to time says one of them's moving at least yeah. This is the galaxy in that. Yeah so yeah. It shouldn't really come as a big surprise. But how many and how often and what's causing suppose is going to be the subject of future speculation and study and ultimately confirmation. I guess but yes. So what one in ten said. That's right well out of ten is moving. yep okay and and sounds like The one of the ones that discovered is moving quite fast which is a little little disturbing but it's too far away to worry us imagining severely so in fact this is i think is two hundred fifty million light years away so it's a long way off but Just a point on that if the when black holes merge we know this from the You know from the gravitational wave detection when they do this final spin around each other. They're approaching significant fractions of the speed of light when they're doing that. So they become highly relativistic. As a really uh surprise they some residual momentum if to impact the sean exactly yes after this collided at nearly the speed of light. You'd expect a little bit of a wobble fifty kilometers per second. Well i think i like my terminology. Residual momentum agrees that if you look okay. I think somebody should use a watch this space as we say because they might be more on this in the in the future as they unravel the mysteries of black holes your listening to the space and that's podcast episode two hundred forty four with and and fred watson nuts. Well thanks for supporting the space. And that's podcast and thank you for listening on whatever podcast platform you. We are on many these days and he can find us just about anyway and thanks to youtube followers have thought numbers would have declined fred once we started putting vices on youtube. They've actually gone up I think we got one thousand six hundred twenty followers on youtube now which is very exciting. So thank you for following us on youtube. Thanks to those who've recently joined the space and that's podcast group as well on facebook. That's a group that was created by the space that's audience in a place where you can join like minded people and discuss your interests in astronomy and swap ideas and maybe ask questions and get some thoughts from your fellow space. Nuts that suspend. That's podcast group. Of course we've got the official space nuts facebook pages well which is growing in numbers so w-w-where joined them all just log into everything. Why not and just become a real space then now to have. We have got some questions. So let's go. I lead to the university of arizona. Hello fred nanu. This is western from the university of arizona in tucson i was listening to a recent podcast. Where the topic of planet non came up once again and i know the reasoning that people think planet nine might exist is the elongation of the orbits of the transient tuyen objects. I was wondering since this is not universally accepted theory. What are some other explanations for this allegation of orbit. It just seems really odd to me that there would be a an irregular orbit. If there were nothing out there love the show guys and keep up the amazing work but we'll try and when it becomes amazing let you know. Thanks western questions nine. Because when i was young i used to play soccer for those in the uk football and we played against the team cold weston and they used to bait us to they. Were pretty good out there. In the hunter valley coalfields with of cessnock incur carrie. I applied for a team called the shocks which was weird because to. It's nowhere near the ocean but we were connecticut shocks and blue. We weren't very good. But i was. I was with the first team that was created was a brand new club when i joined and got to start somewhere but yeah thanks for the question western Yeah planet talked about many times before there's been all sorts of theories one of the more recent theories there is no planet not. It's just a whole bunch of other stuff acting like a planet so yeah one wonders what is causing all this influence. Read if there is if there's any influenced too because that's i mean police finger on it really still a controversial idea that we have these what they call extreme transnet tuning objects and. It's really only a handful of them. Think is less than a dozen that have an alignment because their orbits are very elongated and it looks as though they're the elongation of their orbits. He's all in a particular direction and the original suggestion. The scientists have proposed this and the number of actually mike. Brownies one chapter. He owes another these. Scientists said that alignment must be due to the influence of the planet which we discovered the very distant planet. And that's what we call planet nine so so. This has been looked at in great detail. Now because i guess you could say there are two camps in this whole business the ones who say there's nothing there what do say something that there are a few people who suggest that it might be a black hole rather than a planet of primordial black hole. That's another thing that popped into the mix. But i think we talked about not very long ago which seems to me to be worth taking into account and it comes from a group of scientists have conducted what they call the outer solar system survey or us and what they've done is looked for more of these extreme transnet union object. They think they found their looked in detail at eight new objects all with very long semi major axis. That's the distance essentially the length of the elongated orbit. A half that leela. You hope it length. Which is why it's called any major access over the semi major axes. So they've looked at those and the found some that are not particularly aligned in the way that the original scientists looked up and then they've done all kinds of statistical studies to try to account for the ship bias which is always something. You've got to be careful when you're doing statistics you've got to look for biases baby. You only observe at one time of year. you're keeping away from the milky way or whatever those biases creeping of one day account for those they find the the in fact quotes the orientation of the orbits of the objects with the largest semi. Major axis was statistically consistent with being random. Another words the alignment disappears. The alignment still there. But what they're suggesting is that we're not saying no picture because of our biases not seeing exactly what what is being told. What's being told might be that. There's just no clustering until they're distributed right around the sky The basically the parameter that defines the direction of the alignment of job is something called the argument of perihelion which is a great name. Arguments used a different word the different way there but the certainly plenty of arguments going on the astronomical community so that perhaps is the main one but there are several other explanations. That people have proposed for these for these alignments whether they're real or not and still going on and trying to find planet nine. If it's really there so bottom line is we could be looking for nothing cooper looking for nothing or we could be looking for something in the wrong place or there's something that we could be looking for isn't what we thought it was It's a pretty wide open question. Well i suppose if we keep looking and never find it will ultimately have to conclude. There's nothing but i mean you could. You might be able to really tell for example as more of these extreme transnet union objects are discovered and they will. Because we've got bigger telescopes now. Wait till the. The ruben observatory comes online. That's the eight meter telescope. They'll survey the whole sky in. I think every three or four days astonishing that comes align within the next year or so. Then we'll start seeing many more of these and it's possible that the whole thing might then disappear. You find that the completely round in our intentions okay. Now before we move onto the next question. Western said he was from the university of arizona in tucson. Now understand you bay nerine. It's a pretty special place many times. Actually it's it's part of astronomy partly because right next door is the is the national optical astronomy observatory at kitt peak. That's not very far from to some but tucson has an astronomy department is called steward observatory which which has many very fine astronomers working that including some friends of mine. One particularly good friend of mine. Who i still keep in touch with. We were students together at the university of edinburgh and he went on to become a professor of astronomy to song. He's done some great stuff actually has written some fantastic books about life beyond the earth and things of that sort. Chris impis his name. Hello christopher via listen to this but yes he's there and something else that's their university of arizona is the arizona mural obara tree which is where the mirrors are being made for the giant magellan telescope. Seven eight point. Four meter diameter eras cast in the rotating often the mirror laboratory. And it's as and that's why they're being polished as well is located inside one of the buildings. It's the standard. Actually the standard people. Look i think for the baseball field. My of the wrong score. Wow but yeah. It's a huge concrete structure which is very stable in temperature inside an empty. Because it's all tiered staircases and ti seating so they've occupied this with this gigantic mirror laboratories well visit every. Wow how amazing. I'm glad i'm glad western got in touch with us to look at that. And thanks for your question western. Hopefully we didn't answer it for you because there isn't an answer yet but maybe one day let's continue on this This one comes from poland. Could be kentucky. Hey guys. i'm robert. Mckinley from kentucky but these days eleven poland. My questions pretty simple. But i think the answer might not be an that is what causes the spiral in a spiral galaxy Much really looking forward to the answer. You take easy to thanks for all of it. It's caused by a fairy floss. Machine candy machine is what causes the spirals. That's that's my theory. Well for a while. That was as good as any and because that because they present actually the spiral arms. It's one that took a law of sorting out. And it's one of those things where the silting out took place within the time spot my career so i remember when we were fooling around with all kinds of wild wonderful theories but they it's now well understood and the the fact is that we we look at galaxies we see these lovely lovely swirling patterns. Some of them are very symmetrical almost infacy symmetrical looking as if the been painted so the question is what are they made of and i thought he's obviously well they're just strings stars that kind of wound up by the rotation of the galaxy. But you don't have to work very hard to prove that. That can't be the case because when you think about the way galaxies turn our son takes about two hundred and forty million years to go round once that means that it's gone round more than fifty times in the you know in the lifetime of our galaxy and so if these things were strings of stars it would have been wound up something like fifty times maybe bit less but something like that and it would look like a clock clock spring. Not many people know what clocks is these days. But it's very very tightly wound the wind. I know what a clock spring is. Because my mom's dad. My grandfather was a watchmaker. And i used to. I used to go into his workshop at the back of the jewelry store and i just was mesmerized by all the mechanisms and all and usually sitting there on his stool with his glass on just working away inside. Those little watches and clocks are gushy was brilliant. He was an instrument fitter in world war two for the f. up in the pacific and came home to watch watchmaker. You little sod long story but you know when you look at spiral galaxies it all the kennedy thing now they've got gentle curvature then nothing like a wound up spring and so the something else. That's really interesting. If you take an image of a galaxy using infrared light rather than rather than noble visible light what you then seeing his old the old styles the spyros disappear the really so what that leads to the suggestion that it's the hot young stars that blue stars and in fact when you look at spiraling they're are from blue in color that you're seeing they're the ones that make that that makes us by our structure so what it suggests. They're short lived as well. Andrew those blue giant stars. They only lost a few tens of millions of years. So what you've got is some process that actually triggers the formation of the stars in this spiral pattern and and then goes away. And that's what the answer is. And it goes back to the nineteen sixties to chinese. American astronomers chow kia chow. I think he's a big man. That's how his first name is. It's his second name is lynn. Cheer char lynn. And frank shu linden shoe. They were the two people who figured out what's going on. And it's basically something like a sound wave that passes through the gas in our galaxy and as it passes through it triggers staff nation. And you get these hot blue stars burning and shining brightly. And then fading away this pattern then passes along and it's so it's almost an optical illusion the spiral arms they're they're formed from the hot young stars that are being compressed by the density wave called identity wave as it passes through and that actually is turns out to be the right answer that form spiral up. So it's far from intuitive so quite different you know quite a different thing and date i i suppose you just look at look at them and say well that must be caused by the rotation or must be caused by some kind of gravitational effect. But now it's it's sounds like something completely different and and i believe not. All galaxies have spar alarms. Do they know that was quite right. This elliptical galaxies. Don't they we think that's because the gas that they've evolved from the period when you've got the disk with gas in it that's making spiral arms. They're much older galaxies or possibly even from resulting from mergers between different galaxies. And then there are. Things called irregular galaxies which are well irregular. That make sense all right west robert. I'm sorry thank you so much for the question. Hope life is good for you in poland and We welcome your questions of course and please send them to us via website. Space nats podcast dot com. Click on the tab. I'm doing it right now. And it'll bring up the interface where you can record your question by pressing the record button. That's how it works. As long as you've got a device with a microphone should be record. Don't forget to tell us who you are and where you're from or where are you from anywhere from as is the case with rob it and Underneath that if you don't want to record voice you can do it through the mile interface where you can put your name and a mile and location and and the question must must. I guess we could use that too. But it's all on our website space. That's podcast dot com. Click on the tab to send us your questions. We're coming up on an old question episode. I think we'll do that next week for it. Sounds really luther that we got some questions over the in the bag and hopefully we'll get some little not be great indeed we will But that wraps it up for another week. Thank you fred. Despite the trials and tribulations that no ever know about seamless episode three hundred forty four of the space. That's focused out. We will see you next week. Thanks for it sounds great. Cu andrew take care fred watson astronomer lodge out of the team here at space nuts and back to the studio who's going to have a lot of fun putting this together and from via andrew dunkley. Thanks for your company. We'll see you again next week. Bye bye notes. This available at apple. Podcasts google podcasts. Spotify radio and all your favorite podcast plan. You can also stream on demand at god still paul. Another gas. Production from thoughts dot com.

fred watson esther royds fred andrew nelson mr bar Commodore gary marshall eubanks dr eubank youtube andrew avi avi lobes andrew dunkley borisov russia university of arizona
172: Tabbys Star Theory

Space Nuts

43:23 min | 1 year ago

172: Tabbys Star Theory

"In fifteen seconds guidance journal and nine ignition sequence spence nuts three to to kneel good hello and thank you for joining us on another edition of the space ice nuts podcast episode one hundred and seventy two. My Name is Andrew directly your host if you're joining us for the first time if your joining us for the one hundred and seventy second time I'm sorry I've Said My name one hundred seventy times and with me as always for the one hundred and seventy second time is professor Fred Watson however Ed. Hey Hey how you doing andrew. I'm good. The question is how you you're jetlagged fool bits of still somewhere in the Indian Ocean. I think the most most of me here and that was a bit grumpy bit so that's always the big ticket time I now. Where did you go so I was. I had to weaken in Munich or in a small town near Munich. Co Gagging thing which is where the European observatory has its headquarters so there's a very pretty impressive headquarters building an all the other things that as well as a rather marvelous planetarium the Supernova planetarium which was only opened last year and so that's an exhibition commission it if anybody's ever in Munich and interested in astronomy that is definitely the place to go sessional Expedition Exhibition the the planetarium itself is state of the art projection. It very very good so I was at a conference. They're talking about education in astronomy which uh was something close to my house and yours too and then I had the weekend in Rome a half hour before it was actually because I spend and most talented motel room preparing tilk mill deny at the Australian embassy ahead engagement that in fact how the lovely day of meetings at various very interesting organizations like the Italian Space Agency enough the headquarters of the Italian Astronomy Research Organization also accompany a coal telespazio which is a company that does a lot with with the space agency that they do some amazing things on observation and things of that sort and wound up with the Nuclear Physics Research Josh Institute whether they're actually collaborating with scientists in Australia in Melbourne to to build a adopt matter matter detector in a in a disused mine to play skull style which is between I think between Melbourne and Bharat so that was interesting interesting but another highlight which would really only be interested straddling listeners. I think is on Sunday morning. I was at a memorial service. He's not in the Vatican but not very far away for ten. Fisher a former deputy prime minister nizing black. I met him a couple of times interview a couple of times over the years. I have never come across a politician who genuinely came across as as is a true gentleman that he stood head and shoulders above so many people in in such a ruthless game as politics and and he always seemed like he made he was just a fabulous fabulous guy yes. He's somebody very sorry never to have met because I would love to talk about with him because he was a train and Choosey off his stride but he towards the end of his life he was actually the Australia's embassador to the Holy See which is why there was a memorial service for Rome and so it was an honor to be invited to attend that and as a guest actually the president embassy to the Holy See so that was that was very good in very very moving and very very fitting to yes very fitting for a great man. He wasn't quite honorable blog now speaking of the Australian government one of the things we'll be talking about today as a strategy is gift to NASA has gone down like a lead balloon in the local media I might add we previously talked about tabbies star and the mystery surrounding the reason that it sort of if dims and then doesn't and then it deems again and now they have a theory we also look at Venus could have once been habitable well and what went wrong. I suspect the occupants of Venus burn fossil fuels for a couple hundred years and then all hell broke loose not that that's what's GonNa Happen here and we'll answer some questions about gamma-ray bursts gravitational waves and their effect on atomic clocks and whether or not a blue shift indicates indicates a universal collapse. Somebody's got plenty of spare time or just really really worried about the future. We'll get onto all of those very very soon but damn what have we given to NASA frayed. Oh it's well. It's that's interesting bit because yes it's a gift to NASA of one hundred fifty million dollars spread it over five years from the straddling government via the struggling space agency to support NASA's plans for trips to mas in the end and of course the moon as well which is regarded as a stepping stone to Mas however it's interestingly you know yes a gift Anassa but released a gift to Australia because they deal. I think means that most of that money we'll probably come back to Australian industry. It's all about engaging Australian into industry to support ticipal NASA with is technology and with you know some of the some of the ideas that needed to to to bring about text production not so there's a headline I read today about some of the autonomous vehicles used in the mining industry. Have you know they've got characteristics. That might be useful in developing vehicles my bell to explore Mars I mean Nassar's got a pretty good track record on that with three very successful rovers four if you think it was pathfinder as against Alga but no I mean I think I think it's an interesting area of of research and I think I think it is actually a good thing that we visibly supporting Nasice a you work in it is of course only eight point seven percent of Nasr's annual budget that we've given to them but that's all right. That's still gonNA make a difference and of course of course you know the the negative press that sort of came along with this announcement is obviously based on on very very narrow focus why putting money into the draft instead et Cetera et Cetera but we've got to be there for the future. We've got to be involved in space travel and space exploration and space industry otherwise we're going to be a very lonely country in the long term future. Gotcha and in this game things one hundred and fifty million dollars not a lot out of our budget Ada. I think one of the the one of the telling statements came from Andy Thomas Strategy is first astronaut actually wasn't Australia's first astronaut but that was Paul scully power but a well known Australian astronaut Mary Todd and on the made the point that you know he's been a big supporter of this strategy. Spicer at agency was instrumental in getting it going instrumental in the fact that he's moving is going to be based. His permanent base will be not alight light is currently based in Canberra but will move to Adelaide probably around the end of the year but he's coming was great to see the space industry as the space agency engaging with human spaceflight because most of what we do in Australia in the space in terms of spice presence is about scientific and industrial applications but not necessarily human spaceflight whereas this is definitely directed towards that goal so it expanding the the horizons of the Space Agency. I think quite a good way stuff all right now. Let's move onto tabby star. We've talked about tabbies star before it's an unusual situation because it has this strange habit of dimming and they haven't really been able to understand why this is a star. We've known about for a long time but now they seem to have come up with a possibility as to what the answer is here for it. Yeah that's right some some work. That's that goes. A paps puts a another a block of stone in the edifice our understanding of this object. We should give it its proper name which is k. for six to eight five too young to me only went down. Ask often known as bought by Jan Star. I'm not sure whether I'm pronouncing that correctly but it was but John who noted they you know they the curious behavior of this style which is basically aw I mean it's very unusual fluctuations in his light so it came out originally from the the Kepler Space Telescope program which was looking thing for the dimming of stars planets passing in front of that parent stars and we as spoken about many times before that netted the current total of just overfull at the current total of just over four thousand known planets around other stars there are other ways of detecting them but the so called transit method which is what capital's done actually is the one that has been the most productive. It's been eminently successful way of detecting planets in Kepler. Now has a follow up mission cold tests which is doing a similar job on in the whole sky so tabby star is in the constellation of cygnus. It's about is getting on for fifteen hundred light years away as the crow flies so it's not a another nearby star but what mocked it out was these very unusual fluctuations. Russians in its brightness not the kind of thing that you would get from planet passing in front of it which would Jupiter sized planet passing in front of the some jockeys his live by one percent so this knots the typical thing you're looking for when you're looking for extra solar planets but Tabby Star drops by up to twenty two percent which is huge and Dosa in peculiar ways not a planet planets planets aunt blocking the lot. That's something is blocking the light but but not planet and I think my recollections looking at previous. Welcome tabby style. There is a sort of quasar periodicity by that amendment you know the the drops in brightness whilst they're not strictly periodic by that's with regular frequency they they have that they're vaguely superiority it kind of put it that way so although they vary. I think the twenty two percent one was a one off and the other thing is that a astronomers have looked at measurements of the brightness of this over very long periods of time because what you can do when you know that you got something interesting you can go back to Kabul photographic plates taken over the last hundred years or so look at how its brightness has changed if it has so how how how its brightness is held up and it turns out that this the star has faded in Brian is by think it's fourteen percent over about the last hundred years is not in itself is a curious curious phenomenon that doesn't really seem to be explained by astrophysics of the Star itself which is actually a similar start the sun. It's actually an type star. Gt On starbucks it's it's similar similar type of star so people have proposal pose all kinds of things like swarms of comet one. I think you talked about is the possibility of dyson sphere being directed around the star dice. Fear is hypothesized. Edifices put out star by an alien civilization to collect all the light light yet but only energy from the start so that that was another suggestion I think that's probably the far end of the hypotheses. He's it's it's only now though that I think a reasonably coherent picture of what might be going going on has been put forward and it's come from a group of astronomers who I remember rightly. Let me just check where they they are at Columbia University which is an interesting place because they're gonNA be publishers of the new book when it comes out in the United States just as ask why not exploding stars Visible Planets Cola in Australia but that's alright so strongly present Columbia University of built this model level of what would happen if you had another planet in orbit around the Star but the moon of the planet that has been pulled away from its parent and planet by the styles gravity and he's being destroyed basically by the style and it turns out that the all the numbers add adop- if you've got this situation that this basically you've got a a moon that is falling to pieces. It's evaporating and the kinds of dimming of the parents that you see match what you would get from this model so it sounds like a fairly complicated construction construction the the theory that led to this but it seems to be that it does fit all the pieces. Actually one of the authors says is Let me just say he's actually one of the one of the one of the researchers working on this says. The team's team's model is unique in each hypotheses what drives the original planet towards the Star in the first place so that the planet itself is also being disrupted it actually results in the often exo moons ending up on highly eccentric which means as long as it orbits with precisely the properties previous research research had shown when needed to explain the dimming of tabby style no other no other previous muddle was able to pull all these pieces together gather so this model for all seems a bit contrived actually fits the data and that's that's the good thing about it so it suggests that it's you know this this exo moon's an extra mode of course is a is a moon around the next to a planet planets around another star. It's got this dusty out to layer of ice gas and perhaps cable carbonaceous rock as well and basically this is all foaming this around tabby star and giving us these peculiar variations in brightness including as the dust builds up a dimming of the star itself over a long period of time yeah I would as the dust thickens the the light gets held back bit by bit by bitten. Yeah it reduces the amount a lot. We detect it makes perfect sense. It's a simple explanation in the end of things. Isn't it yeah that's always you always apply what's called otms razor which is the simplest explanation possible and whilst this is a complex. It's nevertheless similar to what we've already a well. I'm sure it'd be more learn once they the daughter together on Tabby star but it does sound like they're run on the money with the with the explanation you're listening to space nuts. Andrew here with of course Professor Fred Watson. This episode is brought to you by Xerox today. Xerox is all about enabling the era of intelligent work from industry leading hardware and software solutions to workflow automation and new innovations like three D. printing and hyper spectral imaging. We're not just thinking about the future. We're making it. LEARN MORE AT XEROX DOT com slash made to think space nuts before we move onto the next topic topic. Fred just a another shat to say thank you to our patrons. We're getting more and more people signing up to patriotic to support space nuts. We so much appreciate that and of course as a patron. You'll have access to the commercial version of the show. I know some people get that anyway. It depends depends what part of the world you're in but that's one of the benefits and we slowly putting together other benefits which we will let you know about down the track so yeah well. Thank you for signing up to patron you can do that if you would like to support the program at Patriotair. Dot Com slash space nets as I've said before. It's not mandatory. We're not going to crack you either the hey if you don't it is a certain you know it's only an option and it's totally up to you but the thank thank you to everybody who has supported us through patriotic dot com slash space nuts it. It won't go unnoticed and we really appreciate your support. What now frayed we are guided talk about the planet Venus now. This is a place that's hideously warm has gotten at righteously out of control greenhouse effect going on but now a new study suggests that at some stage in its dark past it may have been a habitable until something horrible went wrong. I'm thinking you know inhabitants burning fossil fuels but I could be wrong about that so yeah. What's what's the the story behind this. This is fascinating it is it's some very interesting modeling of of Venus that has been done with some as you said quite surprising results also yes. Venus is closer to the sun than we are but that is not the full story when it comes to planning my Venus is so much hotter than the earth because the surface temperature in the region in four hundred fifty degrees. Celsius is quite a lot hotter than the days it. That's all about the the greenhouse in house environment that that decision in other words atmosphere so Venus's atmosphere like yes has not been in it but is also rich richer in carbon dioxide than the sin so traps the heat and the surface temperature rises enormously and then comes as with all kinds of very peculiar effects on the atmosphere things like sulfuric acid drizzle that happens a high highs in Venus's atmosphere it. It does make a place that you shouldn't put on a bucket list for holiday. So why is it like got well. There's a greenhouse you know a runaway greenhouse effect has exactly exactly as you said but I think what's interesting about. This piece of research is that people have actually really salted seriously looking at why should being you know what was it inevitable that that would happen. with the planet that is near to the sun the Earth is and the answer is apparently not what what this group of scientists have done these people who based at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies so it's not you no. They're not fly by night astronomers or anything like that. Although most astronomers a fly by night against the nation so looking at they've looked at the things like the topography of English the the actual structure of the surface they've looked at the what we know about Vulcan Ism Venus which is that it was in fact we know at Venus actually has more volcanoes than any other body in the solar system so it has has had a very active volcanic past but they've also looked at the you know the kind of phenomena that we know stabilizes the atmosphere and what is Ketu the atmosphere big stabilized is actually play tectonics as I think we've discussed before the fact that a plate tectonics he's a means of getting carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and into the into the crust of the Earth a basically the the carbon dioxide either goes directly into the oceans are subject to carbonic acid is absorbed that way but either way eventually finds its way down to the seabed and you get carbonaceous rocks building up. I mean I'm talking now about geological Michael Time that is then subjected under the under the continental place and that is a great way some of it comes back up through volcanoes but it nevertheless stabilizes the carbon dioxide content in the atmosphere so what the model is who have done this work have have built into their idea is that Venus actually was a world similar to the Earth for most of its history plate tectonics tonics. did that thing the atmosphere to perfect level surface liquid water. Perhaps perhaps a stable climate very much like that of the Earth then they speculate that may be a billion years ago perhaps seven hundred million years of something that sold something happened to change that and the they they run a whole of hypothetical scenarios in that muddling and come out with something that actually fits the bill rather well which is up for a seven hundred million year ago event that would have basically stopped the the plate tectonics in that tracks and stop this. you know this carbon dockside sink. What suggesting is that a some sort of? Vulcan ISM probably released a huge amount of gas pass into the atmosphere Venus and effectively a you know that that that gas basically was it was produced by some intense balkanisation which together with highly gaseous envelope also oh so the sealed up the surface with with what would it be multi magnet but then solidifying on the surface and stopping the plate tectonic cycle and that happened at a global level not a global level. Yes so something really very very significant. Nothing like the kind of things that for example we know that there was five hundred million years ago. Earth was allowed scale outgassing into the atmosphere from from vulcans which produce something called a Siberian traps which I think if I remember right near that lava flows there was a mass extinction as a result of that but but that's small beer compared with what evidently must've happened on Venus paps roundabout the San Antonio Mora Brasilia in order to produce what we see today which is a planet with a runaway greenhouse effect. It's it's a really interesting idea. They the you know you are once again relying a muddling to get this impression of a of a nice you know temporary temporariness before this event happened but it is it's based on belly solid research so it it does have a lot going for it. Particularly what is written by people who are in a one of NASA's actually most eminent planetary scientists institute so that that's it's amazing and one wonders what would have been like as a habitable world if if it was not dissimilar in terms of its topography griffey in and water notions and that sort of thing what what compared to us what would it have been like well it would have been much the same but with the sun slightly lightly bigger in the sky and maybe rather warm of this suspecting that the surface temperatures might be higher than what they are talking about twenty to forty degrees. Celsius on on average for the whole planet whereas here on the average temperature pretty sure it's fifteen degrees Celsius the average that attempt temperature of the planet got it so that's putting into Fahrenheit terms that twenty to forty degrees go sixty eight Fahrenheit which is the twenty degree mark to about one hundred and four degrees degrees Fahrenheit so she's the extremes would be much higher in so why would would have been hotter but you still only talking about temperatures like what we're getting US Chilean judge that very true yeah. It sounds like it would have been quite a livable place so one now wonders assuming they theory is spot on whether or not they did have life yeah that sounds maybe one day we will have the wherewithal to explore. Venus robotically county module whatever Wilkins Venus with those temperatures but who knows what sort of things we might find with with a robot strolling around Venus Bustle. Oh there's another one alta although if you've got super volcanoes sealing the whole surface with Mike Meyers probably not going to be much left of the fossils suppose not but they probably found the smoking gun Nado Cadillac that'll be that'll be the reason what happened now. These fascinating quite amazing and that sort sort of makes you think well. Hey Hey hang on a second if that happened at Venus and we look at Mars and go well you know at one stage had possibly liquidations and he's earth. I mean Holo suddenly there are three potential livable planets in solar system and the only one left and only what left and when messing it up yeah. Eh Guy well probably be more on this not fast track so we'll keep it on that story as well because twelve with reviewing you're listening to space nuts the podcast with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson space nuts did send the shadow early at two patrons through patriarch dot com are also locked to send a shot at Fred to youtube follow is we're starting to build quad little audience audience in Youtube. We've got two hundred and seventy subscribers that now listen via Youtube which is wonderful. We've decided to set a target so we would like to reach one thousand because apparently that's that's a good number that really understand youtube and have the numbers work but getting to one thousand is something that that benefits the benefits youtube obviously but also benefits space nut so we'll we'll we'll push on. If you'd like to become a subscriber to space nuts via youtube just do a search youtube apple whatever it is you use and yourself to a growing list of subscribers on youtube space nuts channel. That would be fantastic now we we got some questions to get through Fred. We've got a few today a couple of will be easy and one will be easier or maybe harder at this one comes from Bentley from Boda Entry Rick Bentley from boulder jury doesn't have an accent like that because he's in Colorado to the dynamic duo Andrew and Fred. That's the first time we've been called that and it will be the last time would blow shifting light from distant galaxies be assigned that the universe is beginning to collapse back on itself. Is the big a crunch or to slow down the free. That's a really interesting question. Light gives a lot of the lot spectrum gives a lot of way when when you're making observations in space what would it blue shift indicate fred will it would it would certainly tell you more than that. The Universe is expansion not Muslim down because in order for the light from a galaxy to be blue shifted the the galaxies go to becoming too so you're already in a scenario you were the universe is collapsing. If you see blue chips we see blueshirts actually up for a few nearby galaxies where the individual of the motion of the galaxy is enough to overcome the expansion of the universe. Uh Excuse me it's really only when you start looking relatively distant galaxies that the expansion of the universe is the most I you know the the most obvious feature of the spectrum so you get the redshift so they're blue two galaxies but there in fact what we what we distinguish between something called the Hubble flow which is the speed of galaxy as a result of of the expansion one of the universe and something called the peculiar motion which is the motion of a galaxy. That's peculiar to that galaxy might because by the fact that he's got a knee nearby my neighbor like we have with the andromeda galaxy and pulling together gravitationally that will be enough to overcome the the redshift because they you no the distance between these objects is small so we do see blue chips but not on a what you might call a cosmological scale not in the white universe. We only see red shifts so there's no danger that we're going to wake up one day and find all these galaxies that hitherto you have had redshift of now got blue shifts. That's not going to happen but in a in a different universe from one with that would go to collapse on itself. Yes yes. That's what you would see you would see blue shifted galaxies so a good question. Thank you Bentley for that. Could the expansion of our galaxy of Al Universe be pushing another one back on itself. Is that right yeah. I'll be there are ideas that was just one of many universities and maybe they are all jostling muscling for some sort of hyperspace nudging one another out of the way but that is at the moment beyond the realms of anything that we can we can actually do who was a observational discovery. All you can do is speculate aspect relations. I think can't do as good as anybody else's yeah. I'll take it okay. Thanks Bentley great question now. We've got a question from Christopher poorly. Christopher Christopher message had a question on before so he he he has another one that we thought we'd tackle so professor Google and her Research Assistant Youtube tells me that gamma rays cannot penetrate air atmosphere however however a lot of scientists feel that a gamma ray burst could sterilize large amounts of planets in galaxy assuming they have life. They told me me that a Gamma Ray burst is spinning supermassive star that is collapsing and turning into a black hole the source of some of the biggest explosions in the universe. My question Chen for Andrew Baja thought I'd read that bit for you for it is Google Rod. Does our atmosphere protects us from memorize. If so what about the Gamma Ray burst would rigby that scientists think could turn earth into a post apocalyptic wasteland love the show Cape it up. That's yeah that's exciting. Isn't it. The answer's Yes you know if you've got a gamma ray burst which is directing its its gamma rays the earth and it's not very far away it does strips the atmosphere of electrons and suddenly you've got nothing that's breakable and things start getting and pretty bad very quickly with the the reason why we know about. Gamma-ray bursts does is it interesting itself because they were not soon until it was the nineteen seventies when various nuclear protection treaties were an enacted acted a global treaties banning atmospheric nuclear tests and they were monitored by a fleet of small satellites satellites which were designed to pick up the gamma rays from anybody who broke the law by detonating a nuclear weapon in the atmosphere and what this commemorate satellites found was not stop coming from the ground but stuff coming from space. I detected occasional blasts of gamma rays which were a very mysterious for a long time in fact. I guess fantasize. It's really only been in the last ten to fifteen India's that astronomers have understood the mechanism by which Gamma Ray bursts work and is it more or less a as Christopher uh-huh says that if you've got this highly massive star maybe a neutron star that's spinning and something happens to it that causes it to collapse into a black hole then you get this huge burst of energy which doesn't last very long. It's it's a matter of I think. The gamma rays are over in a matter of seconds to minutes but often there is an optical flash visible. COUNTERPA actually very useful if you say that to to what can how distantly things are. We know that they are great distances. They're in very distant galaxies so for a while and I think this woke still goes on there was a a system setup whereby if a Gamma Ray was detected by one of these special gamma-ray detection satellites allies than you will be optical and radio astronomy communities and getting them to point to the place where the Gamma Ray bursts came from to see if there's any afterglow the the US happened is being detected not how we know of it more about the physics of these things the fact is that these gamma-ray bursts does that have been observed role a very very long way away so they gotta raise pretty weak by the time they get to the solar system but if he did have one in our galaxy addicts jet of material was directed in the right direction. Sorry is jeter. A highly energized radiation was in the right direction then yeah we could be Friday could strip the the planet of its atmosphere so I think the answer is that both Google and a a on youtube where right yeah thanks Chris forgiving us one more thing to worry about really appreciate it but now it is is fascinating. The odds are very very miniscule aren't they. Yes they are the the very slight this. I think we've discussed star recently. Soleil my rings a bell look to my brain is still over the Indian Ocean Khan remember it but I do remember. This was a candidate in our galaxy for aw possible. Gamma-ray burster might be to Corinne actually which is a very large and unstable star but it turns out that the the axis along in which the gamma rays would be directed is not actually pointing does so we might we might survive if he does go few. Thank you for your question. We'll move onto the final question for this episode from a double Banger because I think this was a discussion that was on the a podcast group on facebook and someone else to question someone else responded to it so I'm going to get credit both Damian Huxley in Brit Campbell for this one they say I wonder if Andrew Dunkley can ask Professor Fred. How does the maths work when looking at gravitational time dilation if if everything else is the same for both planets except for the mass one is a one hundred thousand times bigger. What is the change inch in time if you were able to watch all the atomic clocks on the satellites as a gravitational wave move pass. Would the clocks change time lime very very good question love time questions. Dodge questions are really think this is good stuff. It is good stuff so and we actually have had another question which is very similar to the second part of a of this one. We had another question in about atomic clocks detecting gravitational waves so the question we've got here is is as you said. He said two component one. What's the change in time for the you know when when Moscow's up by touch of a hundred thousand I I I don't know the answer hand in terms of the mathematics bud it's relatively straightforward when he looked at the equations of general relativity it they are a bit Excuse me they are a bit horrendous in other things called metrics which evolved matrices of large amounts of numbers an a- An- any all goes into something called tensor calculus which between you may Andrew Hope. Nobody's listening to this. I've never really understood probably because I've never really ready up properly but it what what often happens is these things boil down to a relatively straightforward equations and so sometimes it's just a question of proportionality while there's usually the speed of light involved in there somewhere which is a constant rise to seminomas power often say to the full both when you look at gravitational distortions disturbance have spiced by gravitational waves so I'm I I can't give answer to how much gravitation the time delights how different today's from one planet to another except to say that it is gravitational time time dilation because of the Earth is actually a very small amount you talking probably Nano seconds that kind of level when you compare an and people have compared clocks in aircraft and clocks on the ground in clocks in satellites and clocks on the ground and he suddenly measurable excuse me with Modern Technology but how different today's from planet to another. I don't have that number fingertips. I'm actually in some ways more interested in the second part of the question. which is if you were able to watch? All the atomic clocks on the satellites is the gravitational wave moved past with clocks change time and I guess just because gravitational wise our distortion of space time the answer is yes but I think the numbers would be infinitesimal compared with what we can detect now is a related question from Damien Huxley which is a any talks about caesium clocks and strontium clocks with these very very high frequencies but I don't think they're any wendy a high enough you've to detect the change in time caused by gravitational wave. That's an opinion pulled out of the from what I know about the effective gravitational gravitational waves on on space which is you know absolutely Chinese ex exactly as new not spoken about before on the line go experiment in the USA. These folks along interferometry arms the capable of detecting a movement of the mirror off one ten thousands of the damage of approach on a not as you know it's just astonishing is about the mind is nineteen meters and so oh your equivalent time distortion will be a similarly infinitessimal of level and I I'm pretty sure I we'll check this because I know people in the time world I will check it but I'm pretty sure that we have no way of detecting the kind of change that would occur gravitatational wave past. They go well. We managed to knock off forty seven questions in one there I think we should we left a good enough to keep going about five hundred. I suspect it does thank you to everybody who all those related questions much appreciated and hopefully the answer was well. They they ask questions because I don't know the answers so they might have had some theories but maybe maybe we help fill in some blanks for them for and thank you. It's always a pleasure we covered covered a lot of ground today in some really fascinating topics as well so thank you very much as jetlagged and dazed as you are. I Yeah I'll of course we'll not remember any of this conversation and so good thing recorded it. It is just as well yeah. Thanks a lot audrey good to talk to you. We'll speak again next week. We will indeed Professor Fred Watson. Astronomer Lodge joins US every week here on space net says as to you and keep spreading the word the more the merrier and we'll catch you next time on another edition of space nuts to this space nuts podcast waited subscribe to the podcast on Itchy and stitch-up or your favorite podcast distributed. This is another quality podcast production from thoughts dot com.

NASA Professor Fred Watson Youtube Australia United States Andrew Professor Fred Space Agency Google Italian Space Agency Rick Bentley Munich Christopher Christopher Indian Ocean professor Andrew Dunkley Melbourne Xerox
Space Blobs

Space Nuts

47:17 min | Last week

Space Blobs

"The fifteen seconds guidance journal chan nine agnes sequence spence nuts three to four or five space ills. Good again and welcome. Thanks for joining us on the space. And that's podcast episode two hundred and fifty one. I'm your host or just the idiot at this end of the proceedings andrew. Dunkley clay's my name. Joining media's always the expert in everything the russ hinze of the enemy idiot at the other end of the line fred andrew. Good good to see you and he again this morning. Now i should nail qualify. What i said about russ hinze for everybody overseas. Or who doesn't live in queensland but russ hinze used to be a state minister in the state of queensland many years ago and russ was referred to as the minister for everything because he had so many portfolios so yes i suppose in the united states. You'd call him the secretary of transport the secretary of communications the secretary he had all these portfolios and so we just referred to him as the minister for everything a quad character in history the strategy politics he was. How are you good downing camera yesterday. Yeah would have been called. It was just where it went down on monday afternoon and went through horrendous thunderstorms and it just rained from then on. In fact my drive back last night it was in rain. All the way might just mentioned that. I was down there a one of the reasons why i was down. There was two attend the opening celebration of questions space exhibition the new honda konin space. Which is open to the public today. Stralia listeners to be going through camera you can visit this fantastic new exhibition which is a duplicate of the one that question recently provided for the australian space agency the headquarters down in another so to listen. I two i plan to say. The one in light is in september. I dont let me. Because i really wanna say that. Now coming up on today's episode. We're going to look at the expansion of testing of ingenuity because so far so good four-test down and looking fantastic. We're also going to talk about the quasar satellite and it's not what you might think by. Hearing the word quasar will also be discussing false positives when looking at planets and finding oxygen and going on oxygen. There are people. there's life everything's y- possibly not and space blobs space blobs. Probably the most exciting thing we've talked about in the wall space blobs. They do exist and questions from bill in michigan about the laurenz fitzgerald contraction starves. Give birth and chris in. Canberra has some ideas on how starlink can help in other ways aside from providing the internet. So we'll tackle all of that today. I on space nuts. But i fred has been sort of common practice for us. The last few weeks another situation with ingenuity four tests down all highly successful. They're starting to think beyond test five. Which is the pizza delivery test. And and and start to do things that are a little bit more radical. Yeah this is fantastic. News under the that nasa us us so pleased with the performance of the helicopter and its first four test flights and the images very easy to find on the web of ingenuity. Doing its thing as well as a lovely portrait of the two of them together. A self self taken by disappearance which has ingenuity on the ground right next to lovely stuff so pleased that they've extended the mission. I think by the month it might. That might not be the case but it certainly beyond the i. It was all supposed to be over by effectively. The first week in march in may but what is really interesting is that they nasa think they've identified another landing site for for ingenuity and in an area that's of interest to perseverance as a you know a place to explore and so what we might see is ingenuity heading off landing. It's new site getting overhead imagery and perseverance trembling along to follow it. And do the follow up exploration. I think there are some really interesting rock sites that they've identified rock strata exposed rock which is really what perseverance is. All about. the main mission is to go climb up onto the jezero creator delta. But they're in the foothills of that delta or the foothills of the deposits that left behind. So there's probably already stuff that might be interesting so we're actually saying looks as though we're seeing ingenuity doing what they said it wouldn't do because it was just a technology demonstrator but actually doing some scouting for for persevere. And that's great. I think it's if you've got the opportunity to do it do it. I mean if a thing crashes and burns trying to achieve something extraordinary. That'd be sad but probably worth the effort. You never know what they might be able to shave just by despite extending this this operation to a whole new level. I think it's fantastic. And they've done brilliantly. So far. I hope the whole thing doesn't sort of fall into the laps of bureaucrats and perseverance as trundling along following ingenuity. And they go. Oh look. there's a fossil. Yeah we're not gonna keep. Actually i think they're a bit more pragmatic in that where he comes to all right so we watch with continued interest at am experiences and whatever of the ingenuity helicopter. Now let's move onto the next topic. Which is that of the quasar satellite quasar satellite technologies which could see a revolution in space. Communications this sounds very exciting for it is and the reason why i'm happy to mention this. A because it's a great example of the transfer of technology for master normal projects into the commercial world. and that's one of the things that Certainly modern governments are always looking for. They're looking for the spin offs. They're looking for the feedback into everyday life and well. We've seen examples already with wi fi which started its. Life is a technology developed for radio. Astronomy is once again. The radio astronomy have come to the party with this. So quasars sat satellite is a private company. but he's a spinoff from zero. Which is australia's national science agency. And of course our operates things like the csiro astronomy and space science which operates as cap the australian square kilometer array pathfinder with other organizations but for their radio telescopes have developed technology called paths phased array feeds and they're in use on the ask the the pathfinder array of dishes which is in western australia. What are andrew is like a fancy radio speak name for what we would call an image sensor in the world of optical astronomy the kind of thing that's in mobile phone but centers images rather than radio waves so path is an image sensor but for radio frequencies and they have essentially revolutionized the way radio strong work because traditionally radio telescopes look at one point in the sky. If you want to build up an image you've got to scan take a data many many different points moving the telescope and then building up the image but paths allow you to we do with a with a with a camera sensor they allow you to take the image in one shot. So what's now happened is with satellites. Quasar satellite technologies spinoff company from csiro. They've turned things the other way round. They've they now proposing to use phased array these paths but to use them in satellite feed dishes in other words the ground stations. That talk to satellite. If they're equipped with these fit phased array feeds. It means one ground. One dish on the ground is not just limited to talking to one satellite. It can do it for many simultaneously until you hugely improve the bandwidth of communications. And you know it plays directly into the thing that we talked about before and we'll talk about it again the mega constellations which we're now seeing being launched all these who'd huge numbers of satellites if you've got several tens of thousands of satellites in orbit you don't have several tens of thousands of down down stations. The dishes that need to talk to satellites but the phased array feeds will actually solve that problem so really interesting technology spin off their job to mention it. I it sounds like a fantastic sort of move towards simplifying. what was i suppose. A task that was pretty plugged. So you had to do one thing. At a time. Now you'll be able to do multiple things Simultaneously which is always beneficial when it comes to to working in spice no doubt That's great things a lot. Some of the word of the day andrew. I'm going for word of the year. But i think jabil get it. Unfortunately plus i'd be perfectly tans england s. Now let us continue on because we've got an another story. That's hit the news this week. In regard to the search for life on exo planets or moons matter and there is we may will find planets with oxygen atmospheres and immediately think are ripa. That's gotta be a place where life is and we shouldn't get too excited about that. That's right it actually plays into a bigger picture question. Andrew because this whole issue of what constitutes a biomarker and that's an unequivocal sign of life processes that that pervades the whole of astronomy. Space science been huge debates for example in relation to perseverance in terms of. What actually is it looking for. What what could he find. That will be unequivocal evidence of life and that they turns out. There aren't many things this one or two things that are very pointed towards the life and in fact one was our love is things called. Mickey mouse is dramatically lights which are rock formations with mickey mouse years. They look exactly like the starter bent up like this Of drawn a picture of them for my new book in the children's book as you would with a name like that but they they might be there thought to be something that will be very difficult to explain without by biological processes so the same sort of thing happens when we talk about exoplanets which before very long we will have the capability to image directly and luca the signatures of gases in atmospheres and we talked for a long long time about the possibility of biomarkers turning up in those atmospheres and indeed possibly techno markers which techno signatures that sometimes called. Excuse me which will be something like chlorofluorocarbons in the atmosphere of the next planet. You know yummy come from industrial processes. So you're absolutely right. Oxygen we believe on our planet as mostly originated because of a bacterial emissions. Excuse me many many. Several billion years is about two billion years ago. The oxygenation started. I can't remember the numbers but we think that mostly oxygen is from plant life effectively. And so yeah. That's a nice step to say well if you look if you find oxygen in the atmosphere of a rocky exit planet like ours. Is it a guarantee of there being life there. And that's what this new research is because the answer is no. There are several alternatives. This is some work that comes from university of california santa cruz where they have identified at least three other mechanisms that could cause an atmosphere to be oxygenated without the need for life processes. So the bottom line is that is not enough so once again. Astrobiologists have been talking about this kind of thing for a while. What you really need to look for is oxygen which is out of equilibrium with some other gas for example methane or carbon dioxide. You're going to be not just looking waving the flag. We found oxygen. We've discovered life. But yet you will have to find other gases that complemented and together which much stronger evidence of processes the telltale sign of of life in other planets is approaching intergalactic ballistic missiles that that would be. Well rose those others as well actually even called asteroids very true so when it when it comes to identifying these markers we're gonna have to double check because it absolutely main that there's probably life there. Although as you and. I have discussed many times. The probability is we will find it. There will be places that have microbial life or some. i imagine. i'll take another giant leap. And say i imagine there's probably planets out there that have a primordial soup and perhaps of reached the algal stage of evolution. I would like to think that. I know a lot of people believe that there are probably planets with sue civilizations that are nearly as advanced or more advanced than us but we would never find them that. That's the the sad part of the whole story even if they do exist and so much to say probably not. We'll never know about them unless we or they come up with some incredible technology through particle physics to bend space and time and just sort of door giant leap from one part of the universe to the other and say hey hey going look. Can you tell me how to get to. The action was something. So i'd to qualify. It is certainly possible that we might know about them because of because of techno markers biomarkers there will be ways like discovery of cfc's in an atmosphere the action of radar signals. Or something like that. But you know you're absolutely right. The the chances of being able to walk up there and knock on the front door big just because of the distances involved. That is a much more prospect and that might be a good thing if if we looked like tasty morsels to some of these advanced civilizations look look at it from another perspective fred. We have a history of hostility. We are not able. I don't think. I want to be a part of civilization where we turned up because we know what we like. There's always that issue that confronts us as human beings and nature is not always well well-meaning fucking put it that way. Would that be option. Yeah i'd qualify that there's a new book just out by somebody who specializes in this kind of thing. I was listening to a review of it when driving. Down to camera which talks about there is an underlying niceness humankind although we are competitive as well and even lucians driven us that the survival of the fittest the ones to compete beat up their enemies the best of the wants to survive and they write the history books to as we well know probably true and i suppose our early escapades into another world would be we come in peace because we wouldn't be sending military people striding about science fiction always looks at the dark side of things. I and that's probably where my brain needs should just. I should just mentioned talking of such things that said that the space exhibition opened yesterday and yesterday of course was may the fourth and that was a very strong store. Three and i got to stand next. Princess labor's sculpture. I don't know but it's a. It's a rather spectacular abstract sculpture sculpture. Basically looking like a string string of dna got a picture of me standing right beside it which is actually what we take a little break but when we come back we'll be talking more about some strange things in our universe. Here on the space. Not spot cass with andrew. Dunkley and fred watson space nuts now. Have you visited our space. That's website in recent times. Are you sure may not only. Can you listen to the space. And that's podcast. And all their beck episodes there. You can go up. The top and a whole string of links astronomy daily which constantly updates people on space astronomy and science news. Sometimes a little bit out of left field but a lot of the mainstream stuff gets a mention there. There's also the ama tab we upload your audio questions or your text questions as the space nuts shop of course where you can look at all the goods that we offer for you from tayshia. It's to capstick cups to Silly little books and one and a bit of information about supporting space nuts in whatever form you you desire whether that's as a patron or as a one off their nation or through true the shop so just have a look at it space. That's podcast dot com. That's our website space knots. Podcast dot com. Now fred. we going to talk now about this unusual phenomenon which has been affectionately referred to as space blob snare. This space blobs appear to be sort of galactic in nature. Some kind i believe they quite large but the more of a ghostly type of apparition dinara galaxy as such so the beneficially called space blobs. Do we know much about no not really a relatively new phenomenon and in fact that technical name is entertaining. Is the blob name. They're called audrey radio circles. I actually know some of the researchers who've done this work quite well. One in particular professor ray. Nora susan. Old friend of mine. Odd radio circle is exactly the kind of thing that ray would would describe something as an some sure. That's where the name came from. This is work that i on the other hand. I'm an odd radio presenter. i can understand. They don't come much older the so this goes back a couple years. Actually in fact. I think it was last year. The first reports came in from data collected the year before and they come again from the observatory that have mentioned already. Australian square kilometre right pass. Finder an array of Thirteen forty meter dishes. Maybe twelve continental Which are in a place called. The murchison radio astronomy observatory in remote western australia. One of the quietest radio most one of the most radio quiet places on the planet until the make a constellations of satellites go past. That's another story. But the but the asca the square kilometer array pathfinder has done some fantastic work for example in fast fast radio bursts science. They've contributed a lot to that. But this is another of their discoveries and the group that are working on this led by scientists from babbel who i know reasonably well based at zero and at western sydney university babacar. Ball's kid Give you a sorry babble. I guess it is because there's a normal out there. Cro sydney university has led the group looking at these strange circles. That have been found. The rc's orcs or odd radio circles so the story the back story is i think four were found in original survey for these things but another one has now turned up. It's got a fabulous name. Das j zero one zero two four dot three three minus two four five three nine point five. Which tells you exactly where in the sky is because those numbers are as coordinator on this guy. And that's what they are a circular structures a radio frequencies. You probably don't have to look too far to find an image of them. I'm actually looking at the science alert website. Which is got a report on this. Astronomers detect another mysterious ghostly circle in extra galactic. looks like a topographical. Yeah well that's the radio. Intensities radio astronomers tend to certainly at low frequencies. They tend to show their images which looked like contour maps. Exactly as you've said but this is overlaid with the same area of sky different frequencies probably optical maybe even x ray or something like that and you can see. There is evidence that this thing house a circular structure so one of the things that you can't just find out from these. Rc's is a without kind of taking other things into consideration. you can't get their distances. And that's if i am remembering correctly. Because they're they're essentially you know. They're not emitting single frequencies. They're they're what you would call a continuum radio continuum observation. That doesn't let you work out the redshift which doesn't let you get the distance however however with this new the j zero one et cetera. What they the team have found is an elliptical galaxy. Right in the middle of it. It's a radio galaxy so it emits radio waves. That means it's probably got to black hole in the middle. That's churning up stuff but in the dead center of this see and it could be a coincidence except the two of the other four of these objects which were published last year also have one of these elliptical radio galaxies right in the center. I think they've worked out the of that being. You know a chance alignment one in two one thousand two hundred dollar about so. It looks as though this is telling you something in fact the first thing that you can do is say. Okay if this if this radio blob. This radio circle is associated with that galaxy. Then you've got its distance because the galaxy you can actually measure its distance and that if they circle is associated with that then you get the distance and once you've got the distance you can tell what size of this thing is so the new one that's been discovered they get all a million light years as as its diameter. That's when you think the distance between galaxy and their andromeda galaxy nearest large neighbour galaxies two and a half million lightyears imagine our galaxy with one of these circles around it would exclude would be halfway to the nearest galaxy. So it's the nearest big galaxy. So that's telling you again that's telling you something. And what the scientists do is propose. Three possible emission mechanisms. One is a. I wonder if this might be the this might be the answer. The first one that they thought of is if you're looking and on to what we call a radio a radio lobe from one of these radio galaxies and what i mean by that. Is that when you look at galaxies. These what we might collective galaxies which are in fact the elliptical radio galaxies. They're they're brighton. Radio frequencies often. They've got these two jets coming up the center not stuff being emitted by the black hole stuff kind of hits the what we call the intergalactic medium the very rarefied plasma that surrounds galaxies. It hits that stuff and spreads out into a big bubble so there are several of these radio galaxies when you look at them. They've got a blob of radio mission in the middle as these projects coming in opposite directions out of the nucleus of the galaxy and then kind of big amorphous blob on the end of one of these jets which is as i said where this material collide with the interstellar medium. Sorry the intergalactic medium. So if you imagine that we are looking and on one of these radio lows maybe that is what we're seeing. It's it's it's one of the one of the possibilities because they look circular. The other two suggestions one is jain blast away from the central galaxy but they struggled to get the amount of energy that you'd need to to form that blast wave the suggest pap something like two massive supermassive black holes merging. Which will be certainly a gigantic gigantic effect and the other one is is just simply an interaction between a radio galaxy and this interact intergalactic medium. I've been talking about but that you'd expect if if a galaxies moving through that medium and something's happening to cause radio emission from from surrounded jude expected to be distorted. You wouldn't expect perfect circle so they sort of rule that one out so yeah we know a five of these things now audio circles very odd and people are struggling to explain them so i think this is one of the things that you and i will probably talk about again down the truck had and i guess having found five it would be a fair assumption that these are numerous. That's why there's lots more of and another line of research with this is to is to observe them at different frequencies. Because that's always the thing that lets you piece together. The jigsaw puzzle of what's happening. Observe next raise visible infrared. Anything get old. Yeah well i. I love the name. Radio circles space. Blobs works for me to anything along those lines. I'm happy we lots to learn by the sound. Your listening to the space. And that's podcast or you might be watching on youtube. That's your bad luck with edward. Don and fred watson south. Hey podcast head parents you've got plenty to do and don't need more to worry about especially when it comes to pets so try wonder side. A spray that kills and repels one hundred percent of fleas and ticks and replaces spot drops or pills which have nasty ingredients because it's plant based it's safer on kids and can be used on dogs and cats of all ages. Oh and it smells amazing. Try it for twenty percent off at wonder side dot com slash podcast with coupon code podcast. That's wonder side with a see every so we do our best to go to steal man. The bulk put the best possible version that we can tear them because every book choose. We know there'll be some people out there who absolutely resonates with and it's the perfect book for them but some songs in the steel man one of us will actually not really enjoy the book and actually give you a one or two at ten whereas the other person walk. And i'd add ten fit if you wanted to be in on what give every book we do at attendance on Email list every month will give you review an air writings. Atta ten plus a little summary of what we've done that month guarantee what you'll learn dot com slash aimo partner space nuts once again. I want to say thank you to patrons to financially support the space. That's podcast and if you want to become a patron you can do so via website. Just click on the supporter button and find out how you can support us not very expensive few dollars a month is all that we ask but if you want to give more and more and more that's up to you. The option is available. They can do that through patriot. Dot com you can do it through super cast or you can do it through other entities which are all noted on our websites. I just hit the support about at spice nuts podcast dot com to find out how you can become a patron. We are certainly looking to become one hundred percent patrons supported in the future. So if you'd like to help us achieve that goal sign up today. It's a purely voluntary. I will always tell you that you don't have to do it. And we will still provide a program to you as is now for it. It's time to answer some questions. And i comes from michigan. This is bill. Hello andrew infrared. This is bill from michigan with a question about special relativity. This is a thought experiment. That seems to result in a paradox. And i hope that you are any of your physicist friends could result for so a meter stick is flying through space and on like a spear coming at it from the opposite direction. Ed john is a very thin flat sheet of metal with a one meter diameter hole. In it they are approaching each other at half the speed of light. The sheet of metal is also slowly moving in a direction perpendicular to the line between the two objects. So when they need the meter stick should just intersect the whole in the sheet metal not hit the size of the whole as it passes through using lawrence fitzgerald contraction eligible to the meter. Stick the sheet metal should be shrunk by thirteen point four percent in the direction of travel so the whole of the sheet metal is only eighty six point six centimeters wide music will definitely collide with achievement a relative to the sheet metal. The whole is one hundred centimeters across. All the stick is now only eighty six point six centimeters long so it should easily pass for the whole machine metal. Easy peasy which actually happens extra great podcasts. Keep up the good work. Thank you very interesting question. Chicken and the egg by now but it is. Yeah it is interesting so thinking about this now. Envisaging is the stick is just slightly tilted to its direction of travel on. The sheet is just slightly tilted to its direction of travel. So that it. In the absence of any relativistic effects they would pass through on another stick. Would pass through the whole so it all comes down to what you call reference frame so for a state traveling through space. It's its size doesn't change from the perception of this somebody holding this take it only changes in relation to a stationary observer. And if you've got something going the other way that has the same phenomenon so if you're a stationary observer. You're watching these two things collide and by the way half the speed of light plus half the speed of light does not make the speed of light as last week. Try but the the the phenomenon would be the two would actually. I think they'd pass through one another My i think that stick will be the whole was if the hole was bigger than the stake at rest. The steak would pass through the whole thought. There was gonna be. But i think that that's what would yeah. I'm trying to do the thought experiment myself in my head. Trump is all about. I guess what you have to do is look at the reference frames once again. There are three reference frames involved as the reference frame of the moving. State is the reference frame of the ship with a hole in it and the this reference frame at rest from a stationary observers. Point of view so the reference frame of the Of the state of the of the shape with a hole in it the state coming towards you Foreshortened because of special so easily party through the whole i think the answer is no civil rights. Sorry i can kind of grasping at straws of it here. But it's a really interesting question and that is a part clever boroughs. Yes i understand that. And that is called. The lawrence fitzgerald contraction is that is yes so lorentz fitzgerald contraction is. What just described if you think of something like a state moving along like a spear through space at the near the velocity of light than you see this contraction once again. I keep mentioning this new book. Mind but i put a cartoon in showing an express train travelling at nearly the speed of light very old express train with smokey engine and a driver looks very slightly startled. But it's very short cartoon quiz. Because you've got gotta guess what. Speed is a shining so that's called lawrence fitzgerald contraction and called that because it was deduced actually before einstein got to the issue. It it if you if you take the assumption that the speed of light is always constant which we discussed last week. Then was germano belgian cardmember and fitzgerald. Who was irish these two physicists said well let's things must appear to contract but it was einstein who kind of sorted out really dotted the is and cross the ts with this theory special relativity but yet it's a great name isn't it. It's gerald contruction indeed and thank you very much bill for the question. Let's move onto our next question. This comes from chris. Hey fred andrew. This is chris camera. Stratagem i've been reading thinking impact of the styling. Satellite constellation Is having on the night skies in the astronomical community and perhaps how stolid could get back to the community. So what if each satellite had on its back side. that's the side facing away from the earth. Optical and ready centers he sends it would operate independently information. Bang relied back to us. Once on the ground this information could be combined using software and i systems to innocence create optical infrared radio telescopes the size of the earth and looking in all directions simultaneously. Such a system could provide simultaneous access to many different uses for many different purposes. For example we could have twenty four hour monitoring for asteroids comets apps using is system While somebody else is doing a luna serve and meantime you've got a classroom lending astronomy and using it to look installations that are not normally visible to love to hear your thoughts and comments on concept capable goodway chris. Thank you very much chris. Lovely to hear from you getting styling to give back a bit like that. I mean that's not dissimilar to what we were talking about with. The quasar satellite technologies multifunctional approach to satellite communications in space but starlink primarily to provide internet services in the world through throwed satellite network approach. Could they do something like this. Could they value add to their technology. I'm not sure that they could. Because i think the you know in principle i get what chris is saying. It's a nice idea. But i think the it would just be the physical reality of doing this. That makes it difficult. Because centers of the kind that you'd need to do anything useful and not just like this chip acute camera. You'd need really to make anything worthwhile. He'd need quite large pieces of kit. Which would you know. Probably modified the design of the satellites a lot so sterling satellites for example. They're they're relatively small. They way a quarterback tom. They're pretty things but they and all that boredom is designed for the transmission of radio signals between earth and the space craft talking about adding radio telescope folks to their backside and optical telescopes you suddenly talking about much bigger entities and it would be an not that straightforward the other. Thing of course is that these things do change their angles. As they that flying they orientation is controlled in order to to to maximize the coverage of the landscape below. And that's one of the things that's been proposed to try and avoid These radio telescopes. Sorry these mega constellations beaming signals into sensitive radio. Telescopes like the ascott one that we've mentioned several times in this podcast so i think an ice idea and yeah we already know about telescopes. The size of the earth being synthesized in the radio frequency. He's a lot harder to do it by the way at optical wavelengths optical razor a much different kettle of fish from radio eras that comes about because of the way you detect the radiation fundamentally different and the but you could think about a radio telescope array on the back of these styling satellite for example. I think the might be issues with the interference because the even though you already telescopes to looking out into space. You're right next to set of five power transmission transmitters which don't just beam their radio radiation in the in the direction that you want them to. They they leak all over the place. Oh i think that would be a bit of difficulty as well but thank you for the suggestion. A nice idea but i suspect not practical. Now check out along the remark. That was a good idea. Austin actually do it with styling. Just send another sixty thousand of them up there separately. So don't do. Of course styling is starting to make its presence. Felt over astrid it now because i believe it is available to people living on the thirty second parallel all the thirty second degree latitude so it's starting to roll out in australia. And i believe it will be available in sydney this month or is it next month. So you know and it's starting to happen. He costa viable in many other places around the world as well. One of the downsides of styling technology. Fred did i heard is not very the gear on the ground that you have to get attached to your place which comes in a box and you have to set it up yourself in. A lot of cases is temperature says sensitive so in outback areas where the temperature gets well up north. It's fifty degrees it. Could it could struggle so it will be interesting to see how it copes with conditions. But you know it's happening. Assad from the controversy that obviously people such as your good self see with starlink and the other services that are being put up there in terms of light pollution and the encouragement on radio astronomy. And all these other issues hope. Hopefully there's room for everybody. That's that's what. I hope I i know they tried to take it into account but compromise a the way And chris thanks for your question. Lovely to hear from you. And dan forget if you have a question for us go to our website space nuts. Podcasts dot com. Click on the imf a tab at the top. You can record your question using your voice. If you've got a microphone in new device whether it's a smartphone or tablet or a computer you can record it for us and figure forget to tell us who you are from the question. Of course we twenty questions the other day with everybody saying who they were and where from but there were no questions and but you can also send us your question via our text. Uplink gary mail link on the same tab. Ama tab on space and that's podcast dot com. We welcome them. All and fred that brings us to the end of another episode. Two hundred and fifty one. Thank you so much. Lovely to catch up again to talk We'll do it again soon. We will indeed. That's professor fred watson astronomer lodge from space nuts and for me andrew dunkley in here in the studio. Thanks for following us. Don't forget to tell you about us. And we'll catch again next week on another episode of the space. That's podcast by. You'll davis apple podcasts. Google podcasts spotify. Radio your favorite podcast. You can also stream on demand at this is being another podcast. Production from thoughts dot com.

russ hinze fred andrew andrew chan nine agnes Dunkley clay fred watson konin laurenz fitzgerald national science agency csiro astronomy and space scie australian square queensland jabil nasa lawrence fitzgerald western australia Dunkley fred Nora susan