11 Episode results for "Franken Steve Lik Tai"
Awaiting a Senate Trial
"From NBC News. This is article two inside impeachment. I'm Julia the Ainsley. NBC News correspondent covering the Departments of Justice and Homeland Security sitting. In for Steve Kornacki. Today is Monday December thirtieth. And here's what's happening. When we proceeded with are going to the next step we've put forth our resolution that described of how the process would be conducted? We hope to get some signal from the Senate on that may or may not. It's been twelve days since the the House of Representatives approved two articles of impeachment against President Trump but trial can't get underway until the articles are moved out of the House and into the Senate and that hasn't happened yet. You just heard speaker. Pelosi say she wants more information from the Senate before. The articles are transmitted his trial. Those people it's all about the papers go right ahead. Congress hasn't returned from recess yet but in the meantime some senators are weighing in on. What a trial should look like everything I do during this? I'm coordinating with White House. Counsel there will be no difference between the president physician our position as to how to handle this well in fairness when I heard that I was disturbed. A Senate impeachment. Trial is different than what Tori no in a in a criminal trial Avak. Senator McConnell is entitled to his opinion and his approach so is Senator Murkowski. So as Senator Schumer Senator Blumenthal if you look at the constitution the standing rules of the Senate. What you'll see? Is that when it comes to impeachment. The rule he has virtually no substantive rule so today on article two we look ahead to the next phase of this impeachment the likely next phase. That is what can the country expect from an impeachment trial in the Senate Frank. Thorpe is an NBC producer Sir reporter covering the Senate actually be in the room when and if the Senate trial happens frank. Thanks so much for joining again on article too thick so much fatemi so so frank right now impeachment is in limbo as I understand it. Is there a chance at the Senate. Trial won't actually happen. I mean hypothetically there could be no trial. The speaker occur. Pelosi needs to send the articles of impeachment to the Senate for the Senate trial to begin. There's really no precedent for the Senate to just begin an impeachment trial without the house. Actually sending those articles over so until that gets done. We're pretty much at a standstill but in reality Mitch. McConnell the Senate majority Jordan leader Republican from Kentucky. He said that he has plenty of stuff to do. In the meantime so if there's a delay in the trial McConnell said he's pretty much fine with that okay so assuming. The articles of impeachment are in fact transmitted to the Senate. What does the constitution say about? How the Senate trial should work? What are the rules here? Are there rules here. So there are some rules that are established in the rules of the Senate but the constitution is pretty vague on what the procedure is and in this situation. Obviously there's not been very many the impeachments in the past so they really don't have that much to look at but there are also other things that are kind of codified in the rules that they would probably follow. I mean at the beginning of the trial though say all persons are commanded to keep silent on pain of imprisonment while the Senate of the United States sitting for the trial of the articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump. That is technically in the rules. I mean that would be there. That's not part of the constitution though. That's it's part of the Senate rules and again that can change so you have stuff like that. You also have the fact. That senators won't be able to stand up and ask their own questions they would submit. Those is questions in writing and those questions would then be asked to either the managers or the defense or any potential life witnesses. Senators won't be talking hawking. They'll be sitting there. Basically silently listening to the trial. They won't be able to use their phones. That's a just a regular Senate rule. They didn't have cell phones back when they drafted the constitution itution. So I think that because it's such a rare thing to happen on the Senate floor. They're going to have to make up a lot of this stuff as they go. So when we're all watching in this on TV and we're trying to figure out who we should be paying attention to. You're going to be in the room and you know these players better than anybody. Can you just flag for his. Who are the key players in this trial? And what are their roles yeah. There's the managers the house managers are going to be the members of the House of Representatives. That Speaker Pelosi Lousy designates to come over and lay out the case against the president. You know there's also the the White House counsel the defense the way that it will work is at the managers lay out their case and and the White House counsel will then lay out their arguments of why the president should not be convicted. They will be key players in this chief justice. John Roberts is going to be a very major player as well considering that he will be presiding over this trial. This is a very unique process the pomp and circumstance of an impeachment trial is unlike unlike any other having the chief justice. Preside over the Senate it. It just doesn't happen. The Vice President Vice President Pence is technically the president of the Senate. He can come in and and break its high for any kind of regular vote. The vice president will have any role in this the last group of people that were really keeping an eye on here. Is that Group of Republican senators others particularly the moderate senators who have said that they really want to see a a fair trial impartial. Trial who have been Not so quick to come to the president's defense during this entire process in the house It's really going to be them. who were going to dictate how this trial goes in terms of whether whether or not there witnesses and basically how the trial goes in general whether or not? They feel like they've heard enough and they can end it or whether or not they want to hear more and sew leader. McConnell is going to have to be very closely in contact with them and to be honest you know. Democratic leader Chuck Schumer is probably going to be communicating with them as well in in an effort to see if they can get them on their side. The majority in the in the Senate is very very slim fifty. Three senators are on the Republican side. If Democrats can pull hole for them over to their side they can do a lot with how they want this trial to go. Well said there's this really small group of people who really matter later and this this moderate Republicans that you talked about. Does that mean those people might actually switch or that. They may just dig their heels in on the process side of things. What are you predicting in terms of of moderate Republicans? Why would say that? In terms of digging in on the process we have a situation where you know. Senator Lisa Murkowski. Who's a Republican from Alaska? Senator Susan Collins is a Republican from Maine and Senator Mitt. Romney who's a Republican can from Utah. These are senators who have not been critical of the house process. We've pressed them over and over again in the hallways about how they feel. The Senate trial L.. Should go how they felt the house. Impeachment inquiry has gone and while they've said that the house impeachment inquiry hasn't necessarily been an ideal situation they weren't really very critical of the way that it was handled because they are more on the of the view that they wanna hear the arguments over in the Senate when they lay out the case in the Senate trial McConnell. CONNEL's going to go to these senators and say I need to know whether or not you've heard enough and we can vote to convict now or whether or not you're going to be pushing for witnesses and you feel like we need to go further and those three are going to be very key in terms of how this whole process plays out. Thanks Frank we're GONNA take a quick break. If you could just hang tight eight we will be right back. Hey Chris as you know. Sometimes it's good to just take a step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take our broader. Look the issues. That's what I'm doing each week on my podcast. Why is this happening? We're exploring topics ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way that I think of it is. Climate Change will be to the twenty first century. What maternity west of the nineteenth century? It'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice. Everything you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified to analyze issues from incarceration to race relations as you know for the first time in our history at the national level level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years. And I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more tribal. Join me for wisest happening. New episodes episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts so frank on this question of whether each side will get it to call witnesses? That's really important to this debate. Who are we talking about? What witnesses do you think each side would plan to call so Senate Minority leader? Her Chuck Schumer has sent a letter to majority leader. McConnell asking specifically for four witnesses actually ended up sending that letter to the entire Senate it. That's all we want the facts. We don't know how these witnesses will testify. We don't know what the documents if we get them. Our hands on them will say. Maybe they'll be expelled. Tori of president trump. Or maybe they'll be further condemning president trump's actions we don't know but we should see them regardless of what what they say and two of the notable witnesses would be John Bolton and Mick Mulvaney the acting chief of staff at the White House the four or witnesses that Schumer asked for were not witnesses that we heard from in the house impeachment inquiry now. McConnell has responded saying there's no precedent precedent for hearing for new witnesses in this trial that that the reason why the impeachment inquiry exists is to get all the information and send it over to the Senate to be able to you decide whether or not to convict now. In the ninety nine trial of President Clinton they had witnesses that they deposed instead of actually having them live on the Senate floor. which technically you could do? They had them in a room and they were. They videotaped a question and answer and then they ended up playing those questions and answers on the Senate four for senators to watch now the difference there. Is that those those witnesses that they depose which included Monica Lewinsky. Were actually witnesses. That had already ready been heard from as a part of the investigation that resulted in articles of impeachment passing in the House. This would be different situation. Schumer is asking for something different. Here he's asking for more he's asking for particular witnesses that have information related to this case that have not been heard from the only other issue here. Is that what this would potentially open up. The Senate to is the flipside witnesses that Republicans might actually want to talk to. Which is somebody like? Joe Biden Hunter Biden. There's a number of different people. Republicans have threatened to call in the event that they're witnesses that Democrats want you the idea of having witnesses witnesses shortness. In fact I talked to the Senator Joni Ernst a couple of weeks ago and I said well would you be open to having a Mulvaney Bolton testify before the Senate you WanNa hear Mulvaney or like people want to hear from fighting. It's kind of a back and forth that they're going to have to do because they need fifty one senators to agree to have any kind of witnesses at all. There might be a back and forth negotiation. That would if you end up opening up the Senate to Democratic witness you also might open up the Senate to a Republican witness so free it seems like this issue of fairness is hanging everything whether we're talking about witnesses or whether we're talking about if Speaker Pelosi is even going to hand over these articles of impeachment and start a Senate trial. There seems to be the the big thing that both sides are using as they point back and forth to each other. Can you just walk us through. Wind did this issue becomes such a flash point and how of both sides been using it. Will I mean the idea of fairness is is obviously an important one. It's obviously also defined by either side in different ways. The idea of leader McConnell saying I am not an impartial. Juror was a notable thing for him to say. Also D- partisan political decision to impeach. We will have largely partisan outcome in the Senate. I'm not impartial about this at all but at the same time you know a Senate trial and impeachment trial is inherently political. He's going to advocate for his person for his president. Now the reality is that you know. The the senators are going to take an oath. If they're going to take an oath. But at the beginning of the trial saying I solemnly swear that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment I will do impartial justice according to the constitutions and laws so help me God. That isn't that they're going to be taking but again. They are not technically impartial. Jury this is not a court of law. There's not the same expectations. Well Frank. I have learned a lot from this now. Some of our listeners. Have some questions for you. Kamal from Lakewood California says could certain senators. Just choose to not show up for the final vote or abstain from the vote. So that's a good question. I think that there's a a little bit of an open answer. There I mean I think you know. Senators are compelled to be there for the trial. I think that senators have said that they would be there for the trial that they would do. Do their duty. There's been a little bit of discussion about what happens if you know Senate. Trial is happening during debate. Day Whether or not there could be an agreement amongst the Senate which would require basically all one hundred senators to move the trial time or the trial date maybe push today or move it a little bit earlier. Technically President Clinton's trial. We saw the trial happened. Start at usually one o'clock pm and go until around five or six o'clock They could move that but I mean I in in reality all one hundred senators are expected to be in their seats for the entire time. And that's one of the things that McConnell has been kind of dangling over senators as a way way to get them to realize that this is going to be heavy and potentially long process. They're going to be there sitting in their seats and they really Kinda. Don't you have an option and then pat from Dallas says can achieve justice overruled. The Senate vote well so the chief justice as we kind of already already established could have an active or a passive role and. I think the expectation is that he would probably have a passive role meaning. He would leave a lot of the questions to the body of the the Senate to vote on if there is a motion. Made if there's an objection made he would let the Senate decided to vote now. Hypothetically the chief justice could overrule all emotion but again any motion by or any decision made by the chief. Justice is subject to a responding motion by any senator her which would then be put up for a vote. The short answer is no fifty-one senators. Have the most power during the Senate trial that is just the reality. What the chief justice? We'll do is just oversee this trial and make sure that it doesn't get unruly and take their cues from the parliamentarian and from the folks that will let them know let him know how they expect the Senate trial to go so frank last question for me. This just comes from talking to family over the holidays the people want to know. Is this a foregone conclusion that Republicans control the Senate so the president won't be convicted and should they even be paying attention to what happens. That's next to the Senate and if so why should they. It's not a ridiculous thing to think that this feels like a foregone conclusion and McConnell has said as much he's basically typically assured that the president will not be convicted. They need sixty seven votes to do so. That would take twenty Republicans to join all democrats and that's a they've a highly unlikely scenario for them to vote to convict and remove the president now. Obviously we've seen the president tweet about a million times about this this. We've seen his surrogates argue. Why they feel like this impeachment is in their words Sham but the reality is is that a lot of that has been very much focused on the process and this this trial is going to be very different? It's going to be worth watching simply because it's going to be more austere almost in a way. There's not going to be the yelling and the screaming and the crazy motions and things like that put forward and end. Democrats or Republicans giving speeches in the middle of MARKUPS. And so we're going to hear a clear argument from the house managers. Why they feel that? What what president trump did was impeachable? And we're going to actually hear the defense. The White House argue. Why it's not and that's something? I think that whether or not there are enough enough votes for the president to be convicted or not is definitely worth watching. That's a great argument. Well we will certainly be watching and we will be watching for your great coverage from the floor. Our thanks Frank Q.. Article two inside. Peach is produced by Isabel Angel. Max Jacobs Jacobs Clear Tie Air Dalton. preseve are Thon Alison Bailey. Adam Noboa and Barbara Wrap our executive producer is Ellen Franken Steve. Lik Tai is the executive producer of audio. I'm Julia Ainsley. NBC News correspondent covering the Departments of Justice and Homeland Security. We'll be off on Wednesday for the New Year. But Steve Kornacki will be back in the host chair on Friday. Hi Everyone Steve Kornacki. Thanks for listening now I want to invite you to talk to us appeared NBC News. We'd like to know more about you. And the topics you'd be interested in hearing about as we look to launch new podcasts. So you can text the word podcast. Two six six six eight six six. We'll text you a link to a short survey again. Text the word podcast to six eight six six standard text messaging rates. Apply your input matters and we are looking forward to hearing from you.
Bonus: The Articles
"The president holds the ultimate public trust when he betrays trade that trust and put himself before country endangers the constitution he endangers democracy and the endangers our our national security from NBC News. This is another bonus episode from article two inside impeachment. I'm Steve Kornacki. Today is Tuesday December for ten years. What's happening on the side of the day? I recall that the third order business for members of Congress is the solemn act taking notes protected defend the constitution of the United States over the course of two and a half months in this impeachment inquiry. We've read the transcripts transcripts we've watched the hearings we've heard the arguments and now the asking judiciaries introducing articles of impeachment charging the president of the United States Donald J trump with committing crimes and misdemeanors. The articles are out two of them as chairman. Jerry Nadler just said today on article two we are asking what are they. And what is the strategy behind these two charges Jon Allen is a political reporter for NBC News and he joins us now John. Welcome to the show my pleasure to be here or I should say welcome back to the show. This is a repeat visit from you. And what a day to have you with. US US I in one sense I guess no surprise. We kind of knew it was coming to this but here it is Democrats released nine pages here outlining two articles of impeachment. They are bringing against the president. Let's just go through these two articles of impeachment. What are they? What are they charging here? And just to reiterate your point. There wasn't an amazing day. Only only the fourth time in American history of gotten at least this far in an impeachment process. The two articles of impeachment are abusive power and obstruction of justice. In the abuse USA power article is basically the Ukraine scheme. The Democrats have alleged the talk there about the president's soliciting a foreign foreign government to interfere in the twenty twenty s election as one piece of that and then the second piece of that involves the president abusing using his power as part of that same scheme to gain personally at the expense of the United States at harm the United States interest. It is an impeachable. Hubel offense for the president to exercise the powers of his public office to obtain an improper personal benefit while ignoring doc or injuring the national interest. And then the obstruction of Congress stems from what they say is his pattern of misconduct in covering that up. Basically by refusing to comply with congressional subpoenas for documents and for witness testimony from his aides at various agencies then from the White House a president who declares himself above accountability above the American people and above Congress's power of impeachment. Gene is a president who sees himself as above the law. We must be clear. No not even the president is the law so I I say there wasn't a lot of surprise. I mean the suspense though was we didn't know what those articles would be specifically how many there would be there. Were a lot of other possibilities abilities that were sort of bad about over the last few weeks that are not part of this. Let me go through some of those and ask you. Why sort of why? They didn't make the cut with Democrats. Big One was bribery. In Democrats really seemed to embrace that term. There's no charge of bribery. Here why is that. I think what you'll hear still in some of their talking points. It's when they're out at the microphones in front of the cameras. I think they'll talk about bribery and in this article of impeachment on abuse of power. They are talking about an exchange range that the president sought in terms of trying to get something personal benefit for himself. But I think the reason that bribery didn't make it in is that there were a number of Democrats it's in their caucus who didn't feel like that was the strongest case that they can make that they could make a stronger case for abuse of power back home to their constituents and They didn't want to get too far for field and get to a point where they were leaning out on a branch you know. We also heard some talk that they might go back to the molar report to the possibility of bringing obstruction of justice. impeachment charges based on that. Now there was saying months ago that his committee was engaged in an impeachment inquiry and so there was some talk growing growing out of that they would fold in charges related to molar. That was a nonstarter as well. Though in the end and again you've got a case here where the language of the articles sort of touch on that idea They talk about the president having a pattern of behavior that That is consistent assistant in these articles with past behavior which suggests in the case of foreign interference in elections. They are referring by implication Asian to the two thousand sixteen election. That is exactly what President Trump did when he solicited and pressure Ukraine to interfere in our two thousand twenty presidential election thus damaging our national security undermining the integrity of the next election and violating goes to the American people the same thing with the obstruction of Congress. They referring to what they would have considered an obstruction of justice Article Michael With regard to the Muller Investigation and potentially obstruction of Congress with regard to the Russia investigation. So they're sort of touching on those by reference and by implication location But again this was a place where the democratic leadership based on I think what a lot of their moderate numbers and swing districts felt was the best case is to make the one that they could communicate best to the public. They felt like they should stick tightly to the Ukraine narrative as possible. Are they confident that both of these articles is that they will have the votes to pass both of these articles or is one maybe shakier than the other just in terms of where the votes are. I think they're confident. They can pass both of these articles. I don't I think they would have Run out there with articles of impeachment. That they didn't think they had the votes for. It's interesting to think back to the last the last time an impeachment reached this point as you say this she was back with Bill Clinton twenty one years ago really almost to the day when you think about it back then. Republicans actually introduced four articles of impeachment against Bill Clinton and one of the reasons. They did that was they. Had some doubt about their moderate members being willing to vote to impeach Clinton of the public opinion was so strongly against it in two of the articles ended up. Failing on the House for one of them was was lopsided back then some of the strategic thinking of Republicans was. Let's give the moderates something they can vote against an article or or two that they can vote against they can tell their constituency. I wasn't Gung Ho on this but I had to vote on the perjury charges as it was back. Then it looks like that kind of thinking give give the moderate something they can vote. No on was not part of this for Democrats. Yeah I think they feel like they're in much better shape if they Can vote together on one on simple narrative I think they didn't WANNA be hanging out there with articles that went down and arguably as history looks back on it You'd have to say that. The Clinton impeachment impeachment the Republicans back then. Broad articles of impeachment against President Clinton in one case went down with two hundred eighty five of the four hundred thirty five house members. There's voting against it inflaming fashion which suggests that not only was it not supported by the majority of the House but probably shouldn't have been brought in the first place. Oh I grew up in a district in Montgomery County Maryland represented by Connie Morella. Who is one of the moderate Republicans who split votes that is voted for some of the articles of impeachment against President President Clinton and against him and she's one of those moderates you're talking about there was able to go home and talk about how she voted for some and not for others and? I think it was very politically helpful for her to do that. The time I'm not sure politics play quite that way anymore. We have a very divided electorate in a very. Partisan polarized electorate these days in a way that I think that you could be seen as trying to have your cake and eat it too as a member of Congress. Okay we'll be back with more in just a moment. Hey It's Chris as you know sometimes it's good to just take a step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take our broader. Look at the issues. That's what I'm doing each week. My podcast why is this happening. Were exploring topics ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way that I think it is. Climate Change will be to the twentieth century. What maternity the the nineteenth century? It'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice. Everything that you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified to analyze analyze issues from mass incarceration to race relations. As you know for the first time in our history. The national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years. And I I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more tribal. Join me for. Why is this happening? New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts talk about what Democrats said this morning as they unveiled these articles of Impeachment House Speaker? Nancy Pelosi was there. Jerry Nadler the judiciary this year. A committee chairman Adam Schiff Intelligence Committee chairmanship himself actually addressed one of the criticisms that has been out there. That is out there right now about the Democrats approach now. Some would argue. Why don't you just wait? Why don't you just wait until you get these witnesses? The White House refuses to produce. Why don't you you just wait until you get the documents? The White House refuses deterrent over and people should understand. That argument really means talk about that decision by Democrats Democrats if you would t- to go forward now and not wait for courts to resolve some of these outstanding issues. This is one of the few areas. Steve Are. I think there is a good faith. Disagreement between the two sides about where the line might exist as a general sort of principle matter in a normal circumstance you might let the court fight. Play out to try to get to the Supreme Court and see what the ruling would be between the two branches but what the Democrats are saying is. The president has engaged in a blanket. Refusal to comply number one. So that's very different than what you've seen in past investigations where the president might refuse to have one or two witnesses show up. Might refuse to provide some documents. This president has provided zero documents has refused to allow any of the witnesses to appear with the exception of those who have chosen on their own to defy the president and appear so number one. That's the difference in number two what the Democrats are saying. There's some credence to this. Is that the. The President Strategy here is to further obstruct the investigation by forcing court jam up so to speak that that he could basically ride out impeachment for any number of years the argument. Why don't you just wait a mouse to this? Why don't you just let him cheat in one more election? Why not let him cheat just one more time? Why not let him have four help just one more time? That is what that argument amounts to so rather than go through that process or even really start to go through how much of that process. They've decided that it was better to to move now and not take this deep into the next election or even into possibly a second term or into the term of the next Democratic president didn't make sense that this was something that needed to be done and resolved quickly so Democrats late the articles of impeachment. They're bringing against the president. What what are we hearing from the president and from Republicans in response the White House response Coming from Stephanie Stephanie Grisham. The White House spokeswoman was Long and somewhat angry and not at all surprising kind of repetitive of what we've heard before said that it's a predetermined sham impeachment basically said that they're trying to overthrow the trump administration And we've heard that before his well on the other hand on Capitol Hill There's a lot more complaining about process. They argue the president has Done nothing wrong and they also argue that everything. Everything was fine and not impeachable. They've held up a pretty strong wall. And in some cases they have argued that the investigations. He was seeking in Ukraine. Were we're not politically aimed. I mean it's sort of a smorgasbord or spaghetti defense if you will from Republicans on the hill but that's to be expected congressional. All allies of a president often are are there to be the dinner throwers in thinking back to that initial vote to authorize the impeachment inquiry. This has been a two WHO and a half month process at this point. That looks like it is coming to a head in the house within the next week looking back at these last two and a half months. I'm just curious. You've been following this so closely. He is there a moment. Is there an incident. Is there an instance that that really stands out to you in an says something about this process. It's it's one that we're waiting for which is going to be that actual vote on the House floor such a such a solemn moment when they actually call for that I vote on impeaching the president. And you know it starts out that these fights are so partisan and sometimes seemingly childish clownish behavior in the committee rooms at times but around the capital in times. Like these when there's a big vote coming when there's a lot riding on something you start to feel the weight of the country and the seriousness around members and I think back to the to the financial bailout the economy writing on that or the a c a vote so I actually think that will be the moment when they come to actually come together on the House floor to cast those votes will probably be the moment to remember two and a half months. It's almost like a schoolyard. Fight that you've been waiting waiting for and I don't mean to diminish it in those terms but the tension building and building and building and then you know. Finally the event happens you kind of have to look at where you are afterward. Lord you're not the first to like an American politics to a school yard or school lunch room. So don't worry there Jon Allen Political Reporter. NBC News always great to talk to you. Thanks for joining us. This all appears headed to a full vote in front of the House sometime next week but before that the first step the House Judiciary Committee will vote on both of these articles of impeachment. That is expected to take place on Thursday article. Two inside impeachment is produced by Isabel Angel. Max ex- jacobs clear tie Aaron Dolton pref- Evora `then Alison Bailey. Adam Noboa and Barbara Rab our executive producer Ellen. Franken Steve Lik Tai is the executive producer of audio audio. I'm Steve Kornacki. We'll be back tomorrow.
Into Life and Loss in a Pandemic
"Seven and a half years ago. My daughter was born. I was the first person to hold her. The doctor hoisted her nine pounds. Self into my arms and she settled into them as if she'd been there all along. I looked down at her and then on my wife and smiled. My mother and siblings were on the way and I couldn't wait to get home to introduce our little girl tower. Small village of family and friends who feed us with love and laughter and the occasional home cooked meal. This is how it's always been welcoming life and it's not unlike how we'd say goodbye. In death scene morning can look a lot like celebration if you look closely enough. It's a form of communion at every funeral. I've ever gone to my best friends. Two of my stepbrother's my grandmothers aunts uncles. We push into each other's arms and fill that new emptiness with love and laughter. There's the visiting reminiscing and the huge post funeral meal at their repast in the age of Colvin nineteen babies are still being born. Everyone who's already planning their flights when they're going to come. You know. I think people were already planning on how they were going to help us and loved ones. They're still dying but now instead of coming together around these life events we're being told to keep our distance when she passed away and the shock sort of faded. I realized you know I have to plan a funeral in the age of the corona virus. How is this going to work? And this is into America podcast about politics about policy and the power. That both have in shaping the lives of the American people this week into life and loss in the midst of a pandemic with their four year old Victorian Giradi and her partner Indo told her family she was pregnant. They were thrilled. And Abbas Kinda surprised. I guess my family's reaction which was like utter excitement screaming up and down a few nights later the row but his family out at Sushi and my boyfriend's brother had ordered us around like sake bombs and I was like Oh man I can't drink that and they can eat Sushi because I'm pregnant so war over top excitement and it was funny because people were coming up to our table like what's happening. Why is everyone screaming? And everyone's like screaming. She's pregnant. She's pregnant. Victoria is a nurse in the San Francisco Bay area. The youngest of four from a Mexican American Family Victoria has always wanted to be a mom with or without a partner. I always thought that I would even do it alone. You know like I thought that if I didn't find someone who I would you know want to delve into that journey with. I had it in my mind that I would be like. I'd have a baby. Oh Man Yeah. Victoria did find someone that's Indo. They've been together over six years and there are thirty six weeks pregnant with their first child after a miscarriage year ago and a nerve wracking few weeks at the beginning of this pregnancy. They're eager to meet their baby. I always tell him he's going to be a better parent than I am. He has a lot of patience. I think he's equally been waiting to be a father as much as I have been waiting to be a mother to be honest as a former nursing. The Prenatal Unit Victoria knew she'd have to roll with the punches of this pregnancy. She seemed other people's plans. Go straight out the window. I would even tell my patients when we would talk about their birth plans. I would tell them. This is called a birth plan. But it's really not a plan. It's kind of like a preference if you could have a choice. Like how would you see your Labor going? You know I took the same mentality for myself. The only thing I think I really had plan was like I was going to have my mom there and my partner there and I was just going to see how things went but the world looks much different now then with Toria and Indo. I celebrated their pregnancy. He don't prepare for giving birth and a pandemic. So this is just something unexpected. Obviously they're really just basic things that all new parents need like hand sanitizer Victorian. Indo can't find it anywhere like wipes out everywhere out of stock in -ticipant that I will breastfeed and that's totally going to be my goal and hopefully it works out for me but there is a chance that it doesn't and so I was starting to look for formula to buy and it's out of stock supplies. That's one thing. But then there's the really really hard part people and Family on. March Nineteenth Victoria and Indo arrived for prenatal checkup. Victoria's pregnancy is considered high risk. Because she's diabetic so these checkups are really important. Like right at the front door of the clinic. They had stopped my partner like. I'm sorry you can't come in. I was very much thrown off. I was like I'm sorry. What Indo with turned away told he had to wait? Outside social distancing for safety's sake they probably saw the look on their face like yeah really you know. Really sorry but no visitors at the same appointment. Another blow Victoria learned that her hospital was tightening up the rules. For the delivery room. She would be allowed only one person with her for the birth her mom or her partner but not both. I'm so grieving. The fact that I am not going have my mother. There which is really was really devastating to me as of like last week and even that small little thing that I had planned in my head is not going to happen so it's pretty upset but she's worried that this could escalate a nurse mentioned to her. That by the time Victoria delivers the hospital might bar anyone besides staff from the room. That means Victoria would be all alone when you are in pain or when you're going to this experience you need someone to help. Be Your Advocate Your Voice. You need someone you know not only there to encourage you but sometimes you need someone to speak for you and to not have. That person may is really is really hard to swallow. If something God forbid would happen to me or the baby like you want your partner to be there to help make the hard decisions you know. If there's a time where I'm incapacitated. My baby is going to be alone. Hospitals everywhere are having to make these hard calls balancing the need for support during birth with the need to limit the risk of corona virus in New York. Have some private hospitals barred partners from the delivery room governor? Andrew Cuomo issued an order that all hospitals allow at least one companion in the room during childbirth. We reached out to the hospital where Victoria plans to give birth Kaiser permanent as Oakland Medical Center. They told us that as of now they're single. Visitor policy stands but victorians concerns. Don't stop at the hospital like so many new moms. She's been counting on help from family and friends when she gets home but for now it looks like it will just be Victoria. Indo and their new baby. I expect me and my partner to do this alone. We have big families. You know they were all planning to come visit. My mom was opposed partners herself like if I needed help with breastfeeding. She was going to be the person who is going to help me do that. And she can't what advice has has your mother giving you about Childbirth and especially giving birth. Now she's she's been in this field for a long time as well like what is she telling you. My mom is like the most positive person in the world. So you know when she calls me. She's empathetic. She tells me that thing that she would always tell me. Whenever I was upset about anything which is that. I'm going to be totally okay. You don't you don't believe her. No I believe her. She's right eight and GONNA be okay. It just sucks Mom Mom can you hear me? You can hear me hear me Victorian her mother Andrea little less than an hour's drive apart social distancing means. They can't be together physically so they talk on the phone a few times a week and just I'm just thrilled. That you're GONNA be a first time mom and maybe you'll get another law Victoria. I don't know if wishing you to have a little. Victoria's a good thing I heard was a difficult child part of the package so but you were before we love you so I think I've expressed to you that I'm you know pretty devastated that you can't be there During Labor and delivery but I actually don't know how you feel about not being there. Yeah well it's it's a very disappointing. And because I was really looking forward to being there and seeing the baby and and See Index Simon. Oath you an email. You know at the birth Holding the baby for the first time so all of that I would miss him. But it's happen. I will be just excited over video and right now my my biggest biggest Disappointment concern will be that it in does not allowed to be there. Yeah you gave birth to four children if I have to do it alone. What would be your advice? My advice would be just to be right there. At the moment whatever's happening every your first baby behind and focus at the moment just to seeing the baby for the first time holding her giving her first kiss. I mean it's just it's just wonderful to to have that moment that feeling you're doing it you're doing it you know you're doing it for the baby. So that's that would be my main main focus. Focus on her being alone. You can forget about that. But that that moment of this holding her for the first time and senior. Yeah Okay Mama thank you I love you. We'll talk we'll talk another time and I love you and We'll hear from you soon. Bye Bye After the break we'll take a look at the other side of the circle of life at families for having to say goodbye apart. Hey It's Chris. As this week on my podcast wise is happening. I'LL BE TALKING WITH JOHN. Berry author of the book the Great Influenza about the last global pandemic we analyze what city is dead in nineteen eighteen and found that those cities which intervened early at a much better experience at the very least in terms of flattening the curb if the intervened too late the virus is already widely disseminated in your community and no intervention is GonNa have any effect if the enemy is already inside the home. It doesn't do any good to lock the door that's this week on. Why is this happening? Search for wise happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe with all the uncertainty in the world. Feeling safe at home has never been more important. It's why I want to talk to you about simply safe home. Security simply safe has made it easy to finally get comprehensive protection for your home. There's no technician or salesperson that needs to come disrupt your house. You don't need to pay any outrageous monthly fees or sign a two year contract. You just order online. Set it up yourself in under an hour and your home is protected. Twenty four seven with emergency dispatch for break-ins fire and more all for just fifty cents a day. I installed my unit about a month ago. It was so simple to set up and I really do feel more secure and I'm not the only fan of simplisafe. Us News and World Report named simply safe the best overall home security of twenty twenty right. Now when you had to simplisafe dot com slash into America you'll get free shipping and a sixty day risk-free trial that simplisafe dot com slash into America to make sure they know that our show sent you from simply safe and all of us here wishing you safety and good health. Losing apparent is hard enough under normal circumstances. But this is what it was like for one man. During this pandemic ooh Caroline Williams loved to sing. Oh she loved her church for sixty years. She sang in the choir at Saint Timothy Community Church in Gary Indiana. Even after her son Eric Diggins left home when he visited his mother. He stuck around for church services. Well first of all I have made sure I was in town for Sunday morning. Because we gotta go to. Church and so I always made sure brought a suit and I always made sure I was here for enough time that I could go on. Sunday morning As long as that was possible Eric is a TV creek for NPR and contributor for MSNBC. And what I remember is her getting up early and singing her gospel songs. Miss Caroline was a middle school teacher for fifty years and she went to great lengths to make sure Eric her only child got an education. They went far beyond their neighborhood so she sent me to a private school in another town. A forty five minute forty five minute. Bus Ride Each way it was a Jewish middle school so I got to learn the Jewish religion and culture and we had Hebrew classes and it was an amazing experience for a kid from Gary Indiana and then She sent me to a Catholic high school so I got to know a whole new. A group of kids very different from the kids. I was in middle school with miss. Caroline was also a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority. And someone who always took the time to care for other people used to joke with her a little bit because whenever I would visit. Her mailbox would be crowded with junk mail from all these charities and it wasn't until she passed away that I realized the reason she was getting all that mail was because she was making small donations to probably like a dozen charities On a retired teachers salary Karen Williams died two Sundays ago on March. Twenty second at the age of eighty one nine days before she passed she took a bad fall at home week from cancer treatments friends down there and got to the hospital where doctors determined. She was severely dehydrated and had two infections. Eric arrived from his home in Florida the next day and within twenty four hours it was clear that the hospital was starting to crack down on visitors. My mother's pastor and Three of her friends were in the room and they were praying over her and Security came in and said that they had too many people in the room and You know made some of them leave and then I think that following Monday. We were told that there could only be one visitor in the room at a time. Hospitals across the country are implementing these types of rules as the number of corona virus cases climb. They're designed to protect patients with compromised immune systems patients like Caroline Williams as well as other visitors and staff. They're left Eric. Spending eighteen twenty hour days in the hospital with his mom. Just the two of them. Then on that Wednesday morning Nurse came in and said well. They're not gonNA allow visitors anymore. You're probably going to have to leave up until that point. Eric had been helping out with his mother's care in any way that he could helping. Turner over when the bid. Pandya changing alerting nurses when our IV drip needed attention and make sure she stayed warm and comfortable and then all of a sudden he couldn't do those things anymore. Huge security guard shows up and explains to me that I have to leave and so I started packing my stuff up and Trying to comfort my mother who was getting agitated and starting to cry at this point Eric was told that patients could have visitors in only two dire circumstances if they could make decisions for themselves or if recovery with no longer possible so it was a double edged sword kind of situation because I knew that if they let me visit her again it would be because they thought she was going to die. Eric had to settle for video calls with his mom and he had to rely on already busy hospital staff to help set those up then for long days later he heard from her doctor. You know I knew that. Then that she didn't have much time. Eric was able to spend the last twelve hours of his mother's life by her side. She wasn't lucid for much of it but I think she knew I was there and so we just. We sat together. I talked with her. A little bit But it was mostly just a letter. No I was. There held their hand through most of it and You know you just You just sitting there waiting for it to end and And then you know then she passed on. What was that like for you So many things frustrating said Grateful for the time that we had. I was so glad that I got those last hours for Eric. Those last hours were precious but what weighs on him where those four days when he couldn't be there with her you know. I know she was frightened. I know she was scared. We talked about that before. I left And that also concerns me. The she spent some of her final days scared. Yeah and alone. You know sitting in a hospital room by herself. You know these guidelines created a situation where The the Church family that she had supported for sixty years couldn't really Be there for her physically. And in that moment You know the son that she had supported for fifty four years couldn't be there for her and those last few days ever because not only heartbroken. He's frustrated there really isn't time or resources to figure out anything better. It's like changing a tire on a moving automobile and and And people are just kind of making decisions and then we're being forced to live with it and and it's continuing you know we're going to be allowed a maximum of ten people in the sanctuary when we hold the funeral tomorrow. That's including the people who work at the church. The day after Eric and I spoke his mom's funeral was held at her beloved. Saint Timothy Church. We thank God for her life. We thank God for our love. The funeral was livestream. Let me first start by welcoming all those who are viewing this home and service online. We've come to celebrate the life legacy of sister Caroline Williams. Let's stop for a moment and let that sink in saying goodbye over the Internet. There was no shared meal after the services. No lingering in the parking lot telling stories and no choir. I mean they can't even be acquire. The can't even be a choir to sing for a woman who sang in a church choir for sixty years. That's not how any of this is supposed to go. Eric is hoping that once. The Corona virus has been contained. He can hold a bigger service. Perhaps around her birthday in February. We'll do some kind of memorial tribute Concert with all the groups that she sang with as many as we can get to perform on a single day and and give the community a chance to give her the tribute and send off that they want to give her now and Karen Williams. We'll get the home going. She deserves so then Eric Treasures. The unexpected tributes hearing the ways. His mom loved people and the ways they loved her. The person delivers the mail where she lives. You know came up to me to say that she was Sorry that my mom was gone like somehow. She had found out and express condolences. You know when I die. My mailman is not going to be aware that I passed away. And it's certainly not going to go up to my kids and say you know sorry about your loss As the into America team was putting together. This week's episode a phrase kept popping into my head born alone die alone. It felt like such a cruel sentiment so I had to look it up and it comes from a quote by Orson Welles. It goes were born alone. We live alone. We die alone only through love and friendship. Can we create the illusion for a moment that we're not alone love and friendship? That's what saving us. That's the blue as we maintain physical distance to fight this corona virus epidemic. Please checking on your loved ones. Call them send them a text tag them on social media with funny memes. Whatever it takes. But let's do all that we can to stay connected until we can be close again into America is produced by Israel Angel. Alison Bailey Aaron Dawn. Max Jacobs Garb. Rab Clara Tie I actually Turner and pre. The've arth on original music by Hannah's Brown. Our Executive Producer is ellen. Franken Steve Lik Tai producer audio. I'm tr- mainly catch next Thursday. Hey everyone it's Dylan byers from NBC News. This week on my podcast buyer's market. I talk one on one with Youtube. Ceo Susan Gysky about Youtube influence. Its Future and the challenges that lie ahead. We started out as this company that was small and there really was the change like three or four years ago and and that's actually when we started to take out a lot of the questions of scrutiny about topics like foreign government interference Misinformation and we were company. That was really focused on. How do we do music videos? And as we got bigger we also attracted more bad actors to you. WanNa think about how to use youtube for their own benefit and there was definitely a turning point for us was hard to get a lot of scrutiny and I realized that we needed a completely different operating model search for buyers market. Wherever you're listening right now and subscribe.
Into Coronavirus for the Uninsured
"Lazaros me. If I get sick am I going to get the possible best? Care that frightens me. Motivate Me Penny I. My name is penny wingaard Will Actually Penelope one guard my friends call me penny. I'm fifty six years old. Ben Had lived in Charlotte North Carolina for twenty years. She doesn't have a lot of money but her friends say she has a big heart that she's always generous with their family and other people in need but penny has been going through a really tough time in two thousand twelve. She was laid off from her job as an after school teacher and then twenty thirteen. She was diagnosed with breast cancer when they diagnosis. Came through that Isla Stage two at breast cancer. I was devastated. I was scared. I didn't know what to do. She went through chemotherapy and then radiation but other health complications followed penny developed. High Blood Pressure. And she had an aneurysm panic attacks years before this but I wanted to therapy was able to control them but my panic and anxiety tax. You know got worse after their diagnosis and when pennies cancer treatment ended she no longer qualified for Medicaid and she couldn't afford insurance through the affordable. Care Act today. Penny is cancer free. But she's also one of the thirty million Americans who are uninsured now facing a pandemic with no health coverage. I'm really anxious. I honestly wish right. Now listen suspended. Therapy to relieve is all this anxiety. That aren't feeling but I'm not in I can't afford to go to. A therapist is just added more anxiety one to everyone not just me but to everyone. I'm mainly and this is into America. A podcast about politics about policy and the power. That both have in shaping the lives of the American people as the corona virus continues to spread. We're going into Charlotte North Carolina to find out how people who fallen through the healthcare coverage gap are fighting to stay healthy during this crisis. One of the interesting things about karenna viruses. That almost simplifies the difficulty of uninsured and how doctors on the frontlines of care for the uninsured are trying to protect them. It's bringing to light some systemic problems that have existed for a long time Any is she's a strong woman and she's gone through a quite a bit before. Even this my colleague Phil mccaslin is a national reporter for NBC News. He covers the social safety net to better understand what the uninsured are going through. Right now Phil Talk to Penny Guard several times over the past few weeks and every time I am talking to her on the phone I can just tell increasingly each day. She just feels more. And more overwhelmed. Penny still working. During this outbreak. She drives lift on the side and is a part time caretaker for an elderly woman. It's a gamble pennies. Making in order to survive. She knows it puts the people around her at risk and leaves are even more vulnerable. So penny was diagnosed with stage. Two breast cancer and twenty. Thirteen and after going through chemo is a really brutal time of of chemotherapy. She's had to maintain a certain number of medications and those medications side effects is is. She has a weakened immune system every six months. She has to get her white blood cell. Count taken by Dr so where some people make it A cold or something like that if I get a cold or sinus infection it's more prominent than other people who may get a cold or sinus infection or even the flu so I mean you can only imagine what that fear is right now right with this krona virus pandemic growing on this outbreak spreading. I mean every time I go to the store I'm back in you know Away I to tell a gentleman the other day you know. Could you please stand six feet apart for me because the People in Charlotte North Carolina? They're not taking. It seriously. Doesn't have a lot of money to to her name. She's having trouble buying supplies for herself and she's just consistently more interest and more scared of of where this all leads so clearly she's going through it emotionally and she's physically more vulnerable but she also doesn't have health insurance. What exactly happened. She had health insurance through the Medicaid program and it was helping her Stage two breast cancer but it day that my radiations stopped the day Medicaid Star. She was merely kicked off the Rolls Schlosser Health Insurance and so she's had to kind of turn to a piecemeal system that I think a lot of Americans turn to. Every other doctor afterwards was connected to slide scale in it they were not Basically paying out of pocket to see him. She's had a lot of doctors who she says. You know have been really charitable to her to help take care of her but she's also amassed quite a bit of medical debt too because she's had other health issues come up and she has maintained certain medications after breast cancer. Do you know how much how much medical debt you have right now. What the Lady told me from the credit people? It's over twenty five thousand dollars that I have accumulated from two thousand and thirteen to currently now. Are you going to be able to pay that off? I mean is there any hope of paying off? No I have no way of pain at all creditors. Call me every day and I tell them my situation and I have no way of paying off. I hope you don't mind saying but I mean I know people hitting it onto that is a lot of those causes a lot I mean. How does that make you feel It's very You know you didn't ask so you didn't ask for any of this and you didn't ask to get sick you know. It's not something that you went out there and said Oh okay you know Has any of it burning? It really is the Bar Now there are government programs to help get people on the insured lists. Why is she insured? Is there no no avenue for right now? There's there's no avenue so Medicaid is the program for folks in her position. Low income people in the United States under age sixty five they can get health insurance through that but there are certain rules and you have to meet them and penny unfortunately doesn't especially in her State so North Carolina and thirteen other states haven't yet expanded Medicaid which was something that was offered through the affordable. Care Act people might note as Obamacare and basically gave states the option to take on a large amount of money from the federal government and in exchange they would promise to ensure a greater number of people a lot of these states are controlled by Republican legislatures. And they say in order to expand this program we have to pay a certain amount so they have to match ten percent by twenty twenty. And there's just not does not willing to do that. Part of it is being fiscal conservative. May Be but there is a bit of an ideological bend to this you know. People don't support Medicaid expansion because of the optics of supporting obamacare and what that sounds like. So Penny is childless and in those terms it means in North Carolina. Because they didn't take on this money she can't get coverage she's applied a couple of times but they've denied each time. How many people like any are there out there? I mean North Carolina. You're looking at somewhere between four hundred and five hundred thousand people who are living without health insurance because the state chose not to adopt this program nationwide looking at maybe five million who would be eligible but again these States Alabama Florida Georgia Kansas Tennessee. Texas and more Vail chose not to go through with it. Still pennies definitely not alone. But she's definitely just makes clear. How vulnerable these folks are. And how vulnerable that makes our entire healthcare system when we're faced with a pandemic so you have the politics of everything and you have people like penny and then you have the pandemic. We're do people like penny. We found themselves in a situation. Where do they go for care? Penny goes for care to a hospital group that is able to treat her on a on a sliding scale so they basically they do an accounting of all your earnings and they say well we think this is how much you can pay and she has to go there regularly right for the different health issues that she has and she went just last week and she told me you know it scared to go there. I was talking to the nurses and I said wow I said you know. You've got people in hand coughing. Because I own gloves masks and everything when I went in there and I said you got people coughing warrant. You guys protecting yourselves and the nurse said to me. We don't have any mass. We don't have any protection. The staff wasn't able to wear masks because they have a shortage so for her. It's just an added pressure an extra thing to be nervous about in kind of for battle to get coverage in her battle to get treatment day-to-day super spend two weeks in the hospital for this Obviously that's a lot of cost or are you worried about the cost of getting sick. Of course I'm worried about the cost of morality in debt with hospital bills so on top of that that would be more debt. You know so yes. I'm worried I'm really worried. And so it's I think really incredibly scary to her to think about can. Can I even think about going to the doctor? If I get the KIRUNA virus can I afford to live with the debt that I'll have to take on? It's really difficult calculus that I think many people are going to be making in the coming weeks unless something's done about it after the break we'll hear from a doctor who serve the uninsured population in Charlotte North Carolina. Hang with us. Hey It's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast wise is happening. I'LL BE TALKING TO LAWYERS. Represent a family of migrants documenting. The tremendous travails. They've gone through under the trump administration's increasingly draconian and restrictive policies these battles. They're not about the immigration process. This is about what rights to immigrants have and the administration believes that an immigrant has no rights no constitutional rights no rights to even have a case heard in a court this is about are they human beings or are they individuals. We can do whatever we want with this week on. Why is this happening? Search for wise is happening. Wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. We just heard about penny wind guard who's immuno-compromised and one of the millions of Americans who are uninsured and especially at risk during the pandemic but organizations that treat people like penny are struggling to many of them are what are known as community health centers. They're basically clinics rely heavily on federal funding to serve people who have difficulty affording care. They were established by the federal government through the war on poverty. They're there to treat the uninsured the underinsured there's about fourteen hundred of them across the country. They serve millions of people feel talked to a doctor who was working around the clock at one of these clinics to serve this population. I talked to Dr Meredith Niece and she is the medical director of community health clinic. I'm also an internal medicine physician so she lives in Charlotte she from Charlotte just like any these clinics. They deal with that population. They're there to help with that population. We certainly are serving a lot of the working poor. Which is a real challenge for us. these are mostly folks. Who have jobs often? They have multiple jobs but are living under the poverty. Line often with many family members Also living with them. We have a lot of patients who have unstable housing situations who rely on public transportation to get places and Dr Niece. Eighty three percent of her patients. Don't have insurance right now. The lowest end of our sliding scale is twenty five dollars which is charged that if patients are able they pay when they come for an appointment so when eighty three percents of clinics patients are paying about twenty five dollars a visit. It as you can imagine doesn't come anywhere close to covering costs now with the corona virus pandemic and all the stress on the healthcare system. How were clinics like Dr Nieces? How are they holding on? We're still early days. This is a a big shock to the system. And I think it's really. She says pretty openly. We're we're really seeing the the huge systemic gaps in the healthcare system. As we've built it one of the interesting things about Karenna viruses that it almost simplifies the picture of The difficulty of uninsured. It's bringing to light some systemic problems that have existed for a long time. You're getting access to care is a major issue. We're seeing a massive influx of requests for new patient visits which is a big problem for a lot of reasons one of which is that problem that we are a relatively small clinic in. Just don't have space. We already had a three month. Wait list before we had this. Massive employee of requests for new patient visits a lot of these patients who are requesting visits. It's because they're afraid they have corona virus and we would like to help with the triage of that but there's a lot of complicating factors in terms of our limited resources. One is testing. We have a total of twenty five tests available before Congress said that all tests for free before they pass that bill last week she had to send someone to get tested and it cost him fifty bucks they said. I'm going to pass because I won't be able to have groceries this week if I do that. So we ended up bringing them into our site and one of our providers went out to the car and swabbed their nose in their car and order test them for Corona virus. And we're we're still awaiting those results so this is not a scalable option for these patients and we have over one hundred thousand patients or individuals in Charlotte without insurance. So my question is what's going to happen to the growth of corona virus in that population. And the answer is that it's going to spread quickly. So how else is Dr? Niece's clinic being affected by the pandemic. Everyone's struggling to get supplies. These clinics are further behind. Because they don't stock a lot already right because they don't have a lot of money they have to be a little bit wise about how they're spending that money. We keep the minimal supply of paper or of extra exam. Rooms supplies that we can because we can't afford to be overstocked. Then there's the other aspect of social distancing which they're trying to practice and encourage you know where their clinic is is tough to get to you have to take the bus or public transportation to get there. Then they have to walk into the front door and they had to go up to the third floor into an elevator. There's just a lot of possible contact there so they're trying to get people to onto telehealth options doing email phone and video and the administration has has pushed for healthcare providers to do that as well but it gets really tough for these community health clinics while that twenty five dollar co-pay that our patients worked very hard to pay us a lot. It's also all the money that we make off of our eighty-three percent uninsured visits. And if we switched to telephone video or visit that will turn in two zero income for our clinic and we will be working for free. They're not running these people down to pay and they're just kind of eating it and they're they're fine with that because that's what the work is but it's making that margin even tighter and it's making them really scared of what their future can be as they're continuing to treat the krona vires pendant. The truth is the budget set community health centers across the country where it site before the pandemic it about seventy percent of their funding comes from the federal government and even though community health centers. Get bipartisan support. Since Two Thousand Sixteen Congress has only approved money to support them for two years at a time. The current funding runs out in. May the first corona virus aid package that Congress passed included an additional one hundred million dollars for these health centers but because some centers operate multiple sites. That comes out to less than eight thousand dollars per clinic. Dr Ni says. That's nowhere near enough to make up for the lost income during this crisis. So what's at stake? So I mean we're we're we're talking about them possibly having to shut their doors if nothing changes to that model. How long do you guys can you hang on I? He does that but I don't think I'm emotionally prepared to answer that question. This is the reality of this. Is the reality of working community. Health particularly in a state with uninsured rate is as high as North Carolina's. I sometimes will use the analogy that in organization In poverty is is not unlike a family in poverty where it's just kind of one crisis to the next and you often feel like there's no way you're gonNA make it onto the next one but somehow you keep moving forward the congressional funding though and. May I mean is obviously key to be renewed right? Would centers like yours able to stay open if they didn't reauthorize that funding? No No if if Congress doesn't reauthorize the community health clinics says the end of the Community Health Center program. It would be absolutely just an unmitigated disaster for our Overall healthcare system especially in the setting of the corona virus pandemic we mentioned there are thirty million uninsured Americans across the country. Right now what? What are their options in his anything being done to protect Those communities so there several states that are reopening that ACA enrollment state's asking for waivers from the federal government to expand care even non-expansion states. They're asking for waivers to use those Medicaid dollars in a different way to maybe address treatment had on but right now for non-expansion states the options are are still pretty limited so when we mentioned those big numbers thirty million uninsured in the cost of delivering care to them Sometimes the individuals get lost and penny is one of those individuals. How is she just dealing with all of this right now? I think she's struggling with it. A great deal the anxieties up for sure but she said you know. I just can't concentrate on the fact of possibly getting sick a can't become that person who's constantly constantly afraid. I'm not GonNa even think negative that I'm going to get as far as I can't let myself think that way I have to think Hopefully I'm GONNA do whatever it takes. I'm not talking about just for my life. I'm talking about the other lives as well. If you don't have health insurance or you know someone in this situation. You can look up a community health center in your area when the website find the health center dot H. R. S. A. Dot Gov. That's fine the health center dot H. S. A. Dot Gov. You also can find link on our episode page. Just be aware they might have long waits during this time into America produced by Isabel Angel. Alison Bailey Aaron Dot. Max Jacobs Barbara. Rab Cleared Hi. I should Turner and pre the've Arthurian original music by Hanns Braun our executive producer Ellen. Franken Steve Lik Tai is executive producer. Audio. I'm tra- mainly will be back next Thursday. Hi this Matthew Yglesias Co host of the weeds and the weeds podcast for people who love diving into the details behind the policies and ideas that help drive our lives every Tuesday and Friday. I'm joined by Darren. Lynn Gen Colston as recline a variety of other leading voices policy experts from around the country to dig into the weeds on important issues. Recent recovered the democratic debates. We had a deep conversation about the sudden rise in Semitism. We welcome Sarah Cliff from the New York. Times back to finally figure out how we can achieve universal healthcare. If you're the kind of person that likes dive deep or you just want to keep up with the current political landscape. This show is for us to for free right now. Favorite PODCAST APP to get new episodes automatically from box. Box Media PODCAST men.
Article II: Trump is Impeached
"HEY MSNBC listeners. Steve Cranky here host of the podcast article two inside impeachment and it is now official president. Donald Trump has been impeached by the House of Representatives and he faces a trial in the Senate in January. We have witnessed an incredibly historic moment. So what does it mean for us for our politics. Wchs for our country with the politics of impeachment change after today. What can the lessons of past impeachments teach us about the future of this? Two hundred and twenty nine year olds process process. I tried to answer these questions on the latest episode of article. Two inside impeachment. You can stay right here and listen to the full episode. And if you haven't already done so you you can search for article two inside impeachment. That's article I Roman numerals article I inside impeachment. You can search wherever you're listening right now and subscribe ride for free. I hope you enjoy it. let us pray mercy full. God we give you thanks. Thanks for giving US another day. We pause in your presence and asks guidance for the men and women of the People's House has the members take this time to consider far-reaching legislation and consider historic constitutional action give them wisdom and discernment women help them and help us all from NBC The News. This is article two inside impeachment. I'm Steve Kornacki. Today is Wednesday December eighteenth and for the third time in American history. The president of the United States has been impeached. We gathered today under the Dome of this Temple of Democracy to exercise one of the most solemn powers that this body it can take the impeachment of the president of the United States. Donald John Trump was charged by the house of Representatives with committing high crimes and misdemeanors demeanor in the form of two articles of impeachment. For the second time in my life the House of Representatives will be voting to peach president of the United States. Oh the chaos chaos all. The sadness is a sad day article one abuse of power. This is a very sad day and I do not take impeachment likely article to obstruction structure of Congress is almost but this madam speaker. This is a sad day in us. History it was the culmination of hours and hours of debate on on the House floor. We have seen Republican courage throughout our history in nineteen seventy four one congressman and took the brave and principal step of becoming the first Republican Judiciary Committee to support impeaching President Nixon's. Who Amongst many years from now will receive such praise as a man or woman of course who will regret not not having earned it has been said today whereas bravery I'll tell you what bravery is found encourged now is found in this minority who has lived through the last year of nothing but rules being being broken people being put down questions not being answered in this majority? Say be damned with anything else. We're going to impeach and do whatever we want to do. Why because we won an election? I guarantee you one day you'll be back in the minority in it ain't going be that fine. You do not uphold our constitution. You do not uphold your oath of office I will. I will tell you this I will uphold mine. I will vote to impeach Donald Trump. I yield back House intelligence committee chairman. Adam Schiff got the last word wrapping up six hours of debate just after eight. PM Eastern Time Representative Diane to get of Colorado who was is chosen to preside over today's historic proceedings announced the start of the first vote. The question of adoption of the resolution as amended shall be divided between the two articles. The question now occurs on the adoption of Article One all in favor say. Aye The house now dressed in black house speaker. Nancy Pelosi gaveled in the results of the first vote to adopt the first article of Impeachment Abuse Abuse of power on this vote. The as are two hundred and thirty the NAYS are one ninety. Seven present. Is One article one is adopted and moments later. The House voted to twenty nine to two one. Nine hundred eighty eight to one to adopt the second article. Obstruction of Congress is adopted. Votes fell almost exactly ackley. Along party lines. There was not a single Republican defector from the president side and just four Democrats broke ranks with their party among them representative representative. Jeff Van drew of New Jersey may have received the most attention over the past few days for his decision not only vote against both articles of impeachment but also apparently to switch parties rather than sit with the Democrats. Today the Andrew Sat squarely in the middle of the Republican Side of the Chamber Representative Collin Peterson of Minnesota. Also a Democrat who voted against both articles of impeachment and representative jared golden of Maine decided to split his votes voting. Yes Article One. That was abusive power and voting no article too as obstruction of Congress. All three of those Democrats represent districts that were won by then candidate. Donald Trump in two thousand sixteen in a surprise to many representative Tulsi. Gabbard of Hawaii was the single present. Vote in a statement released to to the press afterward. Gabbard said quote after doing my due diligence in reviewing the six hundred fifty eight page impeachment report. I came to the conclusion that I could not in good conscience vote either yes or no. After the vote Speaker Pelosi praised her Democratic Caucus. I could not be powder on more inspired by then by the moral courage average of the House Democrats. We never asked one of them how they were going to vote. We never with this both and she questioned the fairness fairness of the process in the Senate we have legislation approved by the rules committee that will enable us to decide how we will send over the articles pulls up impeachment. We cannot name managers until we see what the process is on the Senate side and I would hope that that will be soon as we did. Food legislation resolution six sixty to describe what the process would be So far we haven't seen anything that looks peer to US too. Hopefully it will be fair. And when we see what that is he'll send up. Meanwhile almost six hundred miles away from Washington. DC IN BATTLE CREEK IN MICHIGAN president trump addressed supporters at a rally just as the vote on impeachment was getting underway. It doesn't really feel like we're being impeached reached. The country is doing better than ever before we did nothing wrong. We did nothing wrong. Aw and we have tremendous support in the Republican Party. Like we've never had before nobody's ever had this. ooh So today on article to a look at what this historic vote means for our politics for our country and for the future future of impeachment. But first we're GONNA take a quick break and be right back. Hey It's Chris as you know sometimes it's good to just take a step back from the day-to-day onslaught of news and take a broader look issues. That's what I'm doing each week on my podcast. Why is this happening? We're exploring topics ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way I think of it is. Climate Change will be to the twentieth century. What maternity west of the nineteenth century three it will be the central subject of questions about economic justice? Everything you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified to analyze issues from mass incarceration to race relations. As you know for the first time in our history at the national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years and I think it's no coincidence winstons that our politics are getting more tribal. Join me for. Why is this happening? New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts? It was a long day in Washington in the latest in a series of long days in Washington. That's part of the reason why I'm here talking to you alone tonight. In the coming days and the coming weeks journalists like myself and historians and analysts talking heads all of us are going to be offering thoughts about what is as of tonight. The third impeachment Minova President in American history. So I know I'm just one of many voices out there but along with you I have been paying very close attention to what's been unfolding over these past few the weeks and a number of times I have invoked cliche. It's a true cliche but it's it's a cliche nonetheless. The cliche that impeachment is ultimately a political process says and so to understand what is and what isn't happening we need to understand the politics surrounding it and one question emerges in the wake of today's events will the politics of impeachment change after trump will change after this. What is the future of this two hundred twenty nine year old constitutional process after today back when the country finds itself facing a political crisis it can be useful to look to the past? Now there are a lot of reference points when it comes to impeachment but the last one that was President Bill Clinton back on December nineteenth nineteen ninety eight while that one has some stories it can share with us if he asked reporters who covered Clinton's impeachment. What it was like back then the probably tell you that Congress was rife with partisan rancor Republicans almost universally backing at least one article of impeachment against Clinton and all but a few Democrats opposing all of them and some of the rhetoric from the House floor on that day back in December nineteen ninety? Eight sounds eerily really similar to what we heard today. Take for instance this moment. It was from Lindsey Graham. He's in the Senate now but back in nineteen ninety eight. He was Republican member of the House. We believe he lied under oath numerous times that he tampered with evidence that conspired to present false testimony to according to law we believe he assaulted our legal system in every way and then today representative. Madeleine Dean a Democrat from Pennsylvania. said this when is it ever right for a president to coerce a foreign power to interfere in our elections. And when is it ever right for a president to block co equal branch of government from investigating the scheme to cheat on election. The answer of course is never her. Here's part of Jerry. Nadler speech on the floor back in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. This is clearly a partisan railroad railroad job. The American people are watching and they will not forget you may have the votes. You may have the muscle but you do not have the legitimacy of a national consensus consensus or of a constitutional imperative. This partisan coup-d'etat will go down in infamy in the history of this nation and today Republican Debbie. Let's go from Arizona. This is the most partisan impeachment in the history of the United States and that one Republican. I don't think is going to vote for it here today. Madam I'm speaker is a sad day. I believe the Democrats are tearing this country apart. They're tearing families apart. You could almost swap each of these statements Republican in Ninety Eight for Democrat in Twenty Nineteen Democrat in Ninety Eight for Republican Twenty nineteen back in Nineteen Ninety the eight. There were many who asked if the Clinton impeachment would give rise to more frequent impeachments in the future if impeachment would become just another item in the partisan toolbox. Yes there's been a lot of impeachment talk in the two decades since then but there never was a serious impeachment drive against George W Bush or Barack Obama. But now here here. We are the end of Donald Trump's third year and if anything the vote count this time is even more partisan back. In December nineteen ninety eight there were twelve. Republicans gins who voted against charging Clinton with obstruction of justice. And there were five Democrats. Who voted in favor of that? They're also five Democrats who voted for a perjury impeachment article goal against Clinton and there were five Republicans who voted no one that representative Peter King. Republican from New York was among that handful of lawmakers who broke with their party back back in nineteen ninety eight the country. I think it's going to have long term impacts in the country whether you're Democrat or Republican it's GonNa have a very very negative talking the country we're setting a standard which he's GonNa make very difficult for future able function but I think subject to constant investigators in constant independent counsels and consulates today king was also a no vote but this time that put him in lockstep with his party game. I rise today strong. Opposition to the articles of impeachment against President Trump as chairman. Nado must must recall exactly twenty one years ago today. I spoke on this floor in opposition. The impeachment of President Clinton and twenty one years ago tomorrow. I voted against all all four articles of impeachment against President. Clinton today's articles of impeachment against President trump on assault constitution and the American people so while the rhetoric from Nineteen Ninety eight and twenty nineteen have striking similarities. The vote in the house was even more partisan this time around there were no defections. Defections among House Republicans. Today and there were only three Democrats who voted against one or both articles and the divide does not just exist in Congress back in nineteen ninety eight eight a clear majority of voters were against impeaching Clinton Republicans tried and tried to change that they never could though this time around however the country is split right down the middle. How about this as the house was about to vote today? Brand new. NBC News Wall Street Journal poll was released in the finding forty eight percent of Americans. Favor impeachment and forty eight percent are against it. So we're asking the same question now. That folks did twenty years ago. We'll every every future president be at risk for this process if the rancor and bitterness between the parties is strong enough some lawmakers did not hesitate to voice those concerns on the House floor today. MHM impeachment is successful the next president. I promise you is going to be impeached. And the next president after that if you set this bar as being impeachable every president in our future we'll be impeached. Roads are Republican ways at our founding. Fathers recognize they got it right today. A dangerous precedent will be set impeachment becoming a weaponized political tool. We know how this partisan process will end this evening. But what happens tomorrow what happens. Tomorrow is a question. We don't have the answer for yet. In the first. Nearly two hundred years of this country's history there was only one impeachment of a president that was in eighteen. Sixty eight President Andrew Johnson but in the last four decades or so what we've now witnessed a two impeachments of presidents and a third that was about to become an impeachment until Richard. Richard Nixon read the writing on the wall and shows to resign in nineteen seventy four. So essentially that his three impeachments over the last four decades. Now that may not sound like a ton but that's also a pretty clear uptick from what America had known anytime before now. So is this just the tip of the iceberg Republicans going to seek vengeance on the next Democratic president president in move to impeach him or her if they do that will democrats than respond in kind until this just become something that parties do. There's one more thing that makes today's vote different unlike Andrew Johnson and Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton president trump is running for reelection. That will be the final chapter of this impeachment. Drama that chapter where the lessons are revealed in that chapter will not be written until November article. Two inside impeachment is produced by Isabel Angel. Max Jacobs Claire Tie Aaron Dalton pref- Iverson Alison Bailey. Adam the BOA and Barbara Rab. Our Executive Producer is ellen. Franken Steve Lik Tai is the executive producer of audio. I'm Steve Kornacki. If you enjoyed this episode WanNa stay up to date on all things impeachment and search for article two inside impeachment. That's article. I Roman numerals article I inside impeachment. You could search wherever you're listening. Think subscribe now everyone. It's Willie geist. Thanks for listening now. I want to invite you to talk to us here at MSNBC. We'd like to know more about you. And the topics you'd be interested in hearing about as we look to launch new podcast text podcasts. Two six six eight six six and we'll text you a link to a short survey again text the word podcast two six six eight six six standard text messaging rates. Apply your input matters and we're looking forward to hearing from you.
Into the Future of Flying
"The last time. I flew on an airplane was march eighteenth. I was headed back home to York City from Cleveland. Ohio where I was covering the state's primary election corona virus was just sitting in and the election was postponed. It was the start of a national postponement of everything that flight was the loneliest flight at ever been on. I was one of just three people on the entire plane and to think I was well on my way to Delta's platinum status. That too has been postponed. The Corona virus has gutted the travel industry. Us airlines have lost more than ninety percent of their passengers and are projected to lose tens of billions of dollars in revenue this year. Those are astonishing numbers but the desire to travel. That's not going anywhere. A survey by leading travel industry site found one. Third of all Americans say they hope to travel within three months after restrictions were lifted and as we've seen restrictions are being lifted states and countries are beginning to reopen and even now people are traveling. I just have my mask with the filter in it and then gloves can't sanitizer Lysol wipes just infected with me. Pull out my pocket after touch anything that you know everybody else touches. Mainly this is into America today. The future of flying. Will it ever be the same will? America's major airline survive. And if you do fly what does that look like. During a pandemic. I talked to the go-to guy when it comes to covering space aviation NBC correspondent. Tom Costello who've been on this beat for a very long time. American Air Force. Look nothing like he's ever seen from Reagan airport. You know the words you hear most often described the situation as apocalyptic bankruptcy and depression. Thank you Tom so good to have you here my pleasure. How long have you been covering aviation? How did you actually get into this beep? So I've been at the NBC News Washington Bureau now for fifteen years hard to believe and I inherited this speed from a legendary correspondent at NBC News. By the name of Bob Hager. Bob Retired about nine months after I started with. Nbc News. And then I fell into this beat. You know. Many of us are used to seeing you at these airports delivering. The news sometimes heartbreaking stuff to tragedy right accidents other times you breaking down the analysis of the business for us but now we see you reporting from Reagan National Laguardia Desolate. And it's lonely and it's a little bit eerie seeing you there. How does it actually feel being those spaces now? You know I was just over at Reagan airport. A couple of days ago. There was nobody in my live. Shot behind me. Save one construction worker. Who worked the overnight shift and was going home and you can see him in his orange vest walking away. It's a ghost town. It's eerie and my concern is that this is really a very strong indicator of what's happening to the economy right now. And it's IT'S TERRIBLE. You know the the airline industry is the lifeblood of the economy and as goes the airline industry so goes the economy and it is in serious serious trouble. How much of a dip are we actually looking? At in terms of travelers airlines had been down ninety five percent in other words passenger volume down ninety five percent at the moment. It's down about ninety percent so we've seen a very small increase of people coming back but in hard numbers about two hundred fifty thousand people flying every day now nationwide compare that to two point six million a year ago goodness so we are down substantially. How were you even able to social distance? An airport or in the airplane like what safeguards are in place for passengers. So I mean first of all people are flying because people have to get places right. I mean that's the bottom line. You're not seeing families getting on an airplane. Going to Disneyworld Disneyworld is closed anyway. Hotels are shut down right in no matter where you WanNa go once you get there. What are you GONNA do? That's a big problem but listen you still have medical professionals flying across country you got government officials? Who Need to get places you got. God forbid you got families who need to get to another city because they just lost a loved one or is on life support so yes. People are flying. But it's a fraction of before the but really to the point of you know how do you try to social distance inside an airport or inside a plane the TSA and the airports are trying to increase social distancing at the checkpoints themselves to keep people six feet many airports not all many airports are requiring that you wear a mask once you get to the to the boarding zone if you will the to the actual gate the airlines almost all of them are also engaging in social distance? When you when you get on board the plane. They're trying to keep six feet at least between all passengers when you board and they're boarding from the back forward so that you're not constantly trying to squeeze pass somebody and rubbing shoulders with they're saying is they are trying trying to keep the middle seat open but they are not guaranteeing. They are not promising that no. They're not blocking middle seats. Let's be honest. They are on their knees financially. They need every seat filled that they can fill and so they are filling up these seats if they can get passengers. They'll do it and listen. There are many fewer flights today than there. Were just a few months ago. So if you're flying from New York to La you're not gonNa have nearly as many options. There are very few flights and as a result. Those flights that are going are going to be a lot fuller than than they normally might have been or than they would have been even a few weeks ago when they were literally deserted. Just five ten people on board would have airlines done to institute any policy around mask-wearing. Yeah every airline right now is requiring masks. Us passenger must wear them and they're requiring them of their crew members as well. How much of this mandatory? What happens if we're thirty thousand feet in the air and I decided you know what I'm taking this mask off? I can't breathe. I'm uncomfortable. Does the flight crew have to be Sky Cops essentially yeah? That's a great question. They are mandating the mask when you board. They're asking passengers when you're onboard. Please keep the mask on. I was talking to expert at Vanderbilt University just a couple of days ago. Who said if you are in a plane and you cough or sneeze? That discharge can travel to rows ahead of you and behind you. However the airlines have also sent out the directives to their airline flight attendants saying we don't need to get into an altercation over this if the airlines are telling their staffs their flight attendants if somebody onboard suddenly takes off. The mask refuses to wear it. You can talk to them. You can implore them please. You're doing this for everybody on board. But ultimately they don't want to become the traffic cops in the skies and so they'll probably walk away and avoid a confrontation that doesn't sound like that would give confidence to a lot of folks if you're saying that people sneeze and it goes several rows in front and behind and then when you're eating your peanuts you're drinking your coffee then what you have to ask. Anyway right. Yeah listen Dr Schaffner Vanderbilt University. Who's one of the top infectious disease? Experts in the country. Said the truth is you should not why. That's the bottom line. Because it is in his words the exact kind of environment that the corona virus wants to spread so tom you have this perfect environment. You have a lot left to personal responsibility right folks. This may keep your mass going inactive accordingly but just practically speaking getting in the plane getting off the plane and we all know we have those folks who as soon as you land there standing up in Iowa a crowded space. Is there anything that could be done? Just moving folks in and out of these airplanes so as I mentioned the airlines are kind of board from the back forward to avoid everybody squeezing past each other and on exiting the plane. They're trying to start from the forward to the back. But you're right regardless everybody's GONNA stand up. You're going to be waiting to go. And you're going to be far closer than six feet and the airlines are going to implore people. Please play along here because we all understand what the stakes are but human nature is human nature. I was on a plane one time flying into Denver. This is pre pandemic by the way while I was on board this flight. A lady behind the had a stroke and there were people on board doctors nurses trying to help her and the flight attendant came on board and said Lady Johnson. We've declared an emergency. We're going into Denver. Paramedics were standing by at the gate. We're going to ask you all. Please remain seated. Do not get up. Paramedics need to board this plane. It's an emergency. We landed emergency clearance. Sure enough people stood up because they had to make their business meeting and a flight attendant got on and Said Ladies and gentlemen sit down or I will have you arrested. They all sat down pretty quickly. You know that's the kind of thing that scares me. Because you know we can all be a little selfish but also the airlines are they so ansi economically right they want put the prophets over the safety of the people. I'm just concerned all the way around I would say I don't see that the airlines recognized the only way that they're going to remain viable they're going to be profitable again and flying and full force is if they can do everything possible to ensure your safety as a passenger. I don't see them putting profits over safety. I think that they all recognize. They go hand in hand but to that end there is now open. Talk within the airline industry that we may lose one or more airlines as a result of this pandemic are now burning through fifty to a hundred million dollars per day per airline Delta fifty million dollar burn rate right now American hopes to get their burn rate down to fifty million dollars. So this is an extreme emergency for the airlines. Now when the airlines signed up for this government money they got twenty five billion dollars in government money. They had to promise that they would keep their employees through September thirtieth. But they've all said listen. Come October first. You should expect layoffs in a big way. Most estimates have at least one hundred thousand people were losing their jobs and the airline industry alone come to fall. Delta Airlines is now saying that will have seven thousand too many pilots come December. This is not going to suddenly bounce back in third or fourth quarter of the year. Most experts believe we're talking about a two to five year process before airline travel resumes. And so they are going to have to start cutting jobs now. Think about that for every job. You caught in the airline industry whether it's a ticket agent or the person who's helping you check your bags in the skycap or whether it's the pilot of flight attendant. How many other jobs are connected right? The taxi driver who drove the passengers to the airport. The people who work in the airport in the end the concession stands I mean and then by the way all the jobs associated with service in the airplanes and and catering the list is endless so we are talking about a terrific and terrible toll unemployment slapping the airline industry in the face. Come the fall to hear you say that that is alarming and I wonder is the industry so critical and so important to the American economy that there will be another round where some eight or bail out money aimed at the airline industry just to make sure that they are able to stay afloat. I've not heard real discussion. That congress would give them more money. Twenty five billion dollars a lot of money and oh by the way they also gave them another twenty five billion dollars in loans low interest loans. So the idea is to get them over the Hump to hopefully let them survive but keep in mind. There is also an awful lot of animosity towards the airline industry over the last few years because they were not in many cases stack piling cash for a bad day they were buying back their stock and as a result many of them did not have the cash reserves to weather this kind of a downturn now. Nobody would have expected this kind of right. This is a once in a one hundred two or twenty year event however that is one reason why there's not a lot of optimism or a lot of you know positively about getting the airlines endless amounts of cash. We'll be right back Hey It's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast wise is happening. I'll be talking with the president of the Appeal Josie fee rice about how the pandemic is playing out inside prisons jails and other incarcerated spaces and what criminal justice it's inequities and contradictions. Look like in this pandemic. There just aren't enough doctors in prison right. You're talking about places with hundreds of people who are malnourished. Much of the time who don't have access to any sort of ability to social distance or where mask or do any of the preventative measures. And then you have one doctor for hundreds and hundreds of people everywhere you turned. There is sort of an insurmountable obstacle. When you're trying to address something this severe and this fast moving in one of these facilities. That's this week on. Why is this happening? Surfer wise is happening wherever you are listening right now and subscribe under the best case scenario. Do you imagine once we see our way through this. How close to the pre pandemic version of airlines and airline travel. Do you think we'll get to well? We ever return to what it used to be so all I can tell you what you know the airport. Ceo's and the airline execs are forecasting talking about and the Wall Street analysts. And all of them think it will take at least two years to return to twenty one thousand. Nine passenger levels may be more like five years and the pessimist will say up to ten years but keep in mind the scenario here a typical American family. That is not traveling for business. A typical American family travels one time of year on a plane. That's it once a year. So if you consider now that we have thirty to forty million people unemployed in this country they are burning through their cash reserves right now just to be able to feed the family and pay the rent and pay for the kids orthodontics or whatever the case may be. They're not gonNA have the money when suddenly things start lifting again. They're not going to have the money to get on a plane to go to Disney world. That's just a reality. The you're not going to see a return of the leisure traveler in force in mass. I think for years now. The other part of the equation is as you know airlines. Make their money off of the business traveler right. The men the women who fly in some cases every single day. You'll see the same guys on the same women multiple times during the week now. This have completely eliminated business travel because of the pandemic and guess what they're finding out. Zoom works pretty. Well right and so why should I pay for my men and women fly over the country to make sales calls or to meet one on one with people when Zoom works pretty. Well if I have to cut one thing and I'm a CEO or a bean counter at a at a company. Corporate travel is going to be one of those priorities. So you know I think it's I think personally. We're talking about four to five years. So Tom talk about these massive layoffs. But how does it actually change flying itself and will the experience fliers change? There are going to be fewer options. The bottom line all the options are going to shrink. There will be fewer flights going from city to city and as a result of fewer flights. Two flights that are flying. You may have more people than you would expect once we start seeing a pickup and traffic. If there are fewer flights the airlines may charge more for the few flights that there are and I wonder why you think the government has stepped in to maybe in the meantime really regulate the industry really put a pause on the air travel. Because part of the reason we we're in the situation is because of how air travel helped facilitate the spread of this virus. Is there any talk? You think of clamping down in the meantime because just one person with corona bias sneezing and coughing. I'll thirteen concrete. Heavy solar US talk in Congress right now about mandating that airlines must keep the middle seat open to borrow a phrase from President Trump. I honestly think that's the way I don't see that you're gonNA see. Most members of Congress especially Republican members of Congress had any appetite for telling the airlines that they've gotta take out x number of seats on their planes or block them when these airlines are fighting for their very survival. I just don't see that given all that we've talked about. How can a passenger Really assess the risk of taking a flight because if they do everything right mask gloves. Hand Sanitizer. No middle seat. There is still no way to account for the behaviour of other people who were going inside this flying tube. How can they make their best assessment of whether mixed supply all I can do is tell you what the advice that I've been given by the top. You know virus control people on the country if you are going to fly if you have to fly and people do have to fly them wear the mask. Keep in mind in ninety. Five masks are reserve medical professionals and frontline firefighters on the like if so many the family has when you can borrow not a bad idea. I gotTa tell you. A lot of people are now suggesting that you wear goggles like the racket ball goggles to protect your eyes because you're not just vulnerable from breathing. Something in through your nose and your mouth but also if a drop lands in your I wear gloves used. Burell you can bring your own clorox wipes and be very mindful of everything. You're touching and then we'll have a tendency to put hand to face when we're thinking like you are right now like I have been through this interview and we need to stop that especially if we've been in an environment where we could have picked something up that's hard to do when you've been alive for decades and you're doing this right but that's something. We all need to consider Tom. How comfortable do you feel flying? And would you load your family on an airplane right now? So is European and we go to Europe every summer to see her family and right now. We're not going and that's really bothersome to all of us because we want to see family and and that's important so no. I'm not comfortable traveling internationally right now. Domestically I have to fly to Florida and a couple of weeks to cover a SPACEX rocket lodge. And you know. I don't think it's likely that I'll be one of only ten people on board. I think that we're going to be sitting shoulder to shoulder and we are talking. How am I going to do that safely? And I think it's going to be all of the above. It's going to be the mask. It's going to be the goggles. Perhaps I'll very silly but you can make fun of me. That's why it'll be the parole and the CLOROX clorox wipes and all of that and just trying to be very mindful. So you're on this flight and the passenger next to you. They decided taking his mask off and they let out a cough sneeze. How do you respond? What do you do in that situation? I think I'd give them a real dirty look to begin with and I'd say come on plays can you keep the mask on you know but you don't. WanNa get into a fistfight over this and listen to the the chances are he or she is not contagious. He or she does not have the virus right but it certainly would be unnerving if that happened part of the problem here as you know is we still have to go on with our lives and the economy needs to move and we need to pick up the pace. If we can't so there is no end all be all that keeps you one hundred percent safe unless you stay home and really that probably is the best scenario in terms of lying if you don't have to just simply don't time will actually warm my heart to see you fool has met suit goggles gloves for your next live it. You're my wife. Wants me to wear a painters to white painter. Suits and then. I'm GONNA have the goggles in the mask. And you know goodness gracious. These are strange strange times time. I WanNa thank you. You're you're such a trusted voice in this space. So thank you for taking the time to talk with us. We really appreciate it okay. But it could take care into America's produced by Bill Angel Alison Bailey Aaron Dalton Max Jacobs Barbara Rab. Clair's high. I should turn and creepy Var thon original music by Hannah's Brown our executive producer is ellen. Franken Steve Lik Tai is executive producer. Audio I'm tra- mainly we'll be back when Thursday.
Into the Survival of Main Street
"Yes small businesses important. Small Businesses Tremaine. Small businesses are really what I call the backbone of the United States economy being small business owner. It means you get to be your own boss. You get to call the shots. They employ almost fifty nine million people across the nation. And of course there's sort of the ideal of the American dream you know. Get off on your own. Start Your own business. In your mind's eye you can see right. The Burger joints and barbershops where people gather in small towns and big cities the hardware stores and corner markets. That have served a neighborhood for generations the new ventures that hold someone's dreams and their life savings their all integral to the fabric of our community and they matter. They're really crucial though to our economy because they employ so many people politicians love to rally behind small businesses touting their support for the little guy everyday ought to be small business day in America. They are the anchors of our main streets. Main Street is the heart of our economy. The soul of our community and the birthplace of American dreams. Things go south. The problem is that when they get into trouble that causes a vast ripple effect across the entire nation version. Morganson is a senior financial reporter with NBC News. She's covered banks and business from pretty much every angle and even won a Pulitzer for a reporting on Wall Street in two thousand two with the New York times when it comes to booms and busts Gretchen has seen it all until there was a pandemic more small businesses crushed by Corona Virus. Head of the small business association says every hour another small businesses closed. No longer wondering if they'll close but win right now. Millions of small business owners are struggling to stay afloat. It's reminding Gretchen of the country's last economic collapse in two thousand and eight with difference. They're not too big to fail. So unlike the big banks that got into trouble making loans during the mortgage crisis. Small businesses really aren't rescued when it comes time for problems in this crisis might be more than they can handle My concern is that this unexpected health. Emergency this thing that nobody saw coming will really be kind of an last nail in the coffin for main street mainly this is into America and today we're headed to main street. Usa to ask a single question can small businesses survive corona virus. Feel like I'm on a desert island. I don't know if help is coming. No Way to communicate to find out what's going on and it's just I gotta wait and see Ooh again thirty-three-year-old. Andrew owned three pet supply stores spread across southeastern Massachusetts. He's got a couple of turtles. Snake and two dogs have a Boston terrier and the other one's a pit bull literal Boston terriers the boss of all of them. Both Andrew Open the first door in two thousand seventeen and we've already built it up to a three location. Business one in midfield the other one in Plainville and the other one in Wrentham my interest in general Since growing up was with animals and pets and trying to keep going and getting into a business. Doing that was my dream from the beginning. Grichin had a chance to talk with Andrew last week. He's sort of the prototypical small business owner in America. He runs three successful pet supply shops in southeastern Massachusetts called mutt wagon. He was wearing a tie dye. Mutt wagon brand t-shirt which was really cute. Kip generally has about five fulltime employees. And he's just got an interesting story to tell so I better than the pet industry since I turned eighteen. I got a job as a vet assistant and then I had gotten a job Work helping to manage a PETCO for four years. Went back into the pet business Working for another local smaller chain and I came across a woman in Medfield who is selling her business so I decided to get into that space and take it over now. This business he told me is his only source of income for him and his family and it could not be clearer that this is what he wants to do with his life. He's poured his heart and soul into it. What was the feeling when you got into business on your own? What were your hopes? How was it different? When I first got into the business I was happy to be able to be in it to be able to have control over What products. I'd want to sell what direction I wanted to go into. I absolutely loved it. That was definitely my passion from the front building up a business. I knew I wanted to be more than a regular one location store. But I didn't want to be like a big franchise. I don't want to have my customer service skills. Get watered down. I wanted to be able to focus know who my customers are. Remember what they bought. Last time he came in Things like that that you're not gonNA see when you go into a local PETCO PETSMART or any big corporate company so this is his only source of income. How is he? How's he funding his business? Well like a lot of small business owners. He originally went to try to get funding from local bank and he just did not have any success so initially. I went to my personal bank to try and get a business loan. My experiences right now is a lot of places for business. Loans won't even listen to you unless you've been in business for at least five years The loan that I was able to take out personally with for about fifteen thousand which was enough to Kinda get the space set up to put a deposit down and get the utilities turned on and to start off with a little bit of Inventory actually took money in US some my credit cards my personal credit cards for it and is that typical typical experience for small business owners. Who are doing what they can make as much profit and revenue to say sustainable. Is it tough for them to actually secure these loans Tremaine? It's interesting. It didn't use to be as difficult as it is now. But in after these mortgage crisis of two thousand eight banks really have withdrawn from the small business lending market. We're not gonNA catch the two thousand eight subprime mortgage crisis here. But it's important to note that economic collapse was tied to lose. Banking regulations and predatory lending practices Beckmann congressman seven hundred billion dollars to bail out the banks the next year the unemployment rate peaked at ten percent the highest in nearly thirty years. Our economy spent the next decade recovering. The economy imploded in two thousand eight How did that shape and shift the groundwork that we're seeing playing out today after the mortgage crisis of two thousand eight banks really had a tougher time lending because they had to follow more rules so tightened up lending meant you know more work to be done on each loan and it just made more sense for them monetarily and from a profitability standpoint to focus on bigger companies bigger lawns? Bigger profits so small business owners have really been left out of the cold so if these small businesses aren't getting the same kind of funding as the big boys. How of the kept the flute? How are they getting sources of money to provide support for their businesses? Well a lot of them. Go to Sources that are alternatives to banks. They also call them non-banks so online lenders. These are companies that are maybe financial technology firms. That have really moved in to fill the vacuum. These are companies. That don't have bank charters. They are not regulated and so they can find money from investors and they can use that to loan out to the small businesses these Fintech companies as they're called pride themselves on being able to turn around loans quickly Because they have technology Advances at work. And so that's really where the The pickup has been these online lenders and the unfortunate outcome is that small businesses wind up paying enormous interest rates. They can wind up really really under the gun if they do get involved with some of these lenders. Now obviously that's not all of the players by any means but the fact that there is no regulation really does allow this whole arena to be something of a wild west. So does andy use any of these online lenders? As a matter of fact he does any lawns that I've taken since then help grow. The business has been through our point of sale which we use square as a point of sale consumers no square when they go into their local coffee shop and pay for their Latin basically handle all the credit card processing and all that after you have business with them for a certain amount of time and you have a certain amount of sales within a year. They allow you to take out a portion of the money. The setup is something like this square will loan him money and in exchange Andy will allow square to withdraw from his bank account automatically at set periods of time ten percent of his daily sales. Okay so square understands that it's going to get it's money back and basically. This is the best way that Andy has to be able to get access to money so it works for both of them and this is something that well there are fees involved it is not an excessively high interest rate for Andy. How was Andy Doing? Before the outbreak of the crooner virus we know only a third of small businesses. Make it past ten years and Andy was on his way to beating the curve. The business was doing great. We built up three locations in three years. A lot of our growth was from. Customer is word of mouth from customers and so you were Growing confident going out on your own is kind of a risky thing. And you're feeling pretty good about it. It sounds like Oh definitely wind. Did Andy I realize that things were going to change for his business? Well I think like most of us. He realized things were getting bad. In March once they add announced just over a month ago that all non essential businesses. We're going to close and people were advised to stay home. We knew we were going to take a hit within the next few weeks in April. Andy said that his sales dropped by sixty percent. So that's a difference of about forty thousand. How many employees do you have at the moment Full time part time. Normally we have five. We did have to let two full timers go with the closure of our rent them location because it was inside of a mall outlet When they made the decision last month a close all non-essential businesses that was one of the businesses that we had to To close down so I haven't paid myself in over a month. I haven't personally taken any money from the business I had some money saved up. I was lucky enough to get stimulus. Checks which is going to hold me over until whenever I know. I'm getting money again in a way. Andy's Lucky in Massachusetts pet supply stores that sell food are considered to provide couvert nineteen essential services so they can stay open yes he has to stores that are open and he's you know encouraging people to come in To call with questions giving advice etcetera telling them they can pick up their deliveries people at thankful that we can just you know help get them treats and choose and toys to help keep their dogs busy while they're working from home and doing everything that they have to continue with their life so yes he is still operating but at a much reduced rate and he still has the loan from Square Square says in some cases they're deferring minimum payments on loans for their customers. But Andy told us he's still making payments even now with the pandemic. That's going on even though I still have that one store closed down. They're still taking out that ten percent so you know. The amount that he owes to square stays the same so it will simply Keep the loan outstanding. Probably a lot longer than he had hoped after the break. What are the options for small business owners like Andy and with a relief offered by the federal government? Be enough stick with us. Hey It's Chris. As this week my podcast. Why is this happening talking with my friend? Heather mcghee about the book. She's writing about how American racism ends up hurting us. All societies that has a public health system that is highly functioning well coordinated and well resourced are obviously going to do better in public health crisis and we have resisted that in the richest country on the planet in large part for the past one hundred years because of racism. That's this week on. Why is this happening? Search for wise is happening. Wherever you're listening right now and subscribe so when we left off with Andy. He was in financial trouble. What's he doing to get through it? Well he is trying to get new loans and fresh money as best he can. I've tried doing. Td Bank for both for Business Anna a personal loan. Unfortunately he's been turned down by the banks. The only thing that I've been able to do is get onto fun box which has allowed me to borrow seven hundred dollars. He did get the small loan from a Fintech which I have to stop paying that back. Weekly he also had a tough time with the protection program. People might have heard of the P P P and they might know that it's a big big pot of money but can you kind of explain what the PPA is and how it actually works. Sure we'll the P P P stands for a paycheck protection program put forward by the government to small businesses. Get through this period. This troubled period and so there was an original three hundred and forty nine billion dollars worth of money that the government set aside that was to be set out as loans for small businesses. The loans are actually forgivable meaning that they would not have to pay them back if they put seventy five percent of the proceeds towards keeping payroll keeping their employees on hand. If they do pay them back. The interest rate is one percent over two years. So it's very low cost and these loans are arranged by banks that work with the small business administration so a lot of people were very eager to get these loans because the possibility for them to really be Forgivable loan was very very high and very appealing numbers. Like three hundred and forty billion. Those are Gargantuan numbers that it's hard for me at least to wrap my mind around. Has the government ever wrote out? A program of this is magnitude before the government has not ruled out a program like this specifically for small businesses and the problems were that it was sort of changing the rules as it went it announced the program on April third and then sort of began also changing it periodically banks were trying to set up their systems so that they could facilitate these loans So there were a lot of moving parts tremaine and honestly it didn't go smoothly and on the first day of them taking applications and previous to that. I contacted my personal bank which is a smaller credit union in the area to see if they were Part of the program and they told me that they weren't and that I would have to go through the bank that I have my business account with Andy of course tried to get a piece of it unsuccessfully so I contacted my bank account with and they told me that they weren't a part of the program so I had heard from somebody else that they had gone through. Td Bank so I had put in an application through td bank and. They told me that. Because I didn't have a business account with them that they wouldn't be able to process it for me and so that's when he started to you know seek help from some of the other fintech companies that are out there since then. I'VE FOR CABBAGE DOT COM which took my application and then also pay pal also took my application online lenders lobby the government to become part of the emergency lending program and while they typically aren't regulated. If they want to participate in the P P P they have to follow the government's one percent interest rate. Small Business Administration requires that any lender that works with it. Being approved lender so online lenders for the most part are not now some of them have become a approved lenders and as a result of this program that would include pay. Powell wasn't early. One cabbage is another But for the most part they are not approved lenders under SBA and so what they would do would be to forward year loan application to a bank. That is an approved lender. I filled out five applications. Pp P P loan program. And I have not heard from any of those companies whether or not it's pending whether or not a went through whether or not I got denied. I don't know if it's coming if it's not if it stock if I need to do anything. There's no communication whatsoever but basically this three hundred and forty nine billion ran out in less than two weeks tremaine. That's how much interest there. Wasn't this two weeks in and it was done two weeks and it was done seeing all that money gone so quickly was hard for small business owners who didn't get a piece of it but there was something else to the government. May P loans available to companies with up to five hundred employees and that meant some organizations that might be considered pretty big and powerful. Got a slice of the Pie. More than a dozen companies like the Lakers and potbelly sandwiches. Returned the money after public outcry but others have said. Nah We're keeping it so I imagine some of that. Frustration is being small business owner like Andy and seeing the big corporations. The big companies with hundred of employees. Gobbling up all of this money but then he talked about that all that feeling of frustration as a small fish in this big time he did and Tremaine. That's a excellent point you brought up. The fact is a lot of companies that are very big and that have access to wealthy investors in the stock market a lot of those companies applied and got P P P money and this is becoming more and more of an issue and a criticism of the program. So you know we had a report on. Nbc News where there were for instance companies with market values of over a hundred million that. We're getting loans under the P. P. Program we have situations where Companies that had ties to the trump administration. Were getting loans under the P P P program. We had situations were companies with connections to banks. That made them the loan Are Getting part of that money so unfortunately there is a lot of room for mischief And so when you see stories like that and when Andy Stories like that you can be sure that it doesn't make him feel any better about not having gotten any of this money. It's very frustrating. When you have stores like me and I know I'm not the only one. There's thousands of other smaller stores out there. That are just looking for ten fifteen thousand dollars just to get through and just a hair that there are companies taken twenty million now is it's very frustrating. Less we. Congress approved more money for the PPO loans. Is there any chance that any of that money could make? Its Way to Andy you know. Andy is hopeful Banks are again of course expecting this big pool of money to go very quickly. It's going to be drained. Pretty FAST HIS APPLICATIONS. He told us are still pending and he's waiting to see now one thing. That may be better about this. Round of help is that there is a slug of it that is dedicated to small tiny banks in areas that are very very impoverished and so we might see this time around a few more small business lenders in those kinds of areas getting money out of this program without this money this influx of money in this loan. What is Andy? Make of chances just to survive. Well he of course is struggling to pay his bills and his rent you know. Most small businesses work on a shoestring They pour everything into the business and they don't have a big cushion. He's typical in that regard. I'm still getting three phone calls a day from my credit card companies city chase discover. We're still getting our gas bills in our rent still has to get paid. Even though again our sales around the crapper as a agreements. Right now I have to pay at least half of our rent for the next couple months and then have the rest of the rent paid up and up to date by December. Another thing that we gotta worry about is even if they turn around and open up the economy. Tomorrow you're still going to have a large group of the population. That's not gonNA WANNA go out. That's not going to risk it and sick. He's hoping that it turns out to be sort of back to the way it was. But that's a question certainly in his mind right now. I think it's GonNa be a struggle to try and get it to at least the same level. I think moving forward working on the online store doing delivery doing what we can kind of have to go that way anyways. Because I know there's a lot of people that still going to have this stigma about going outside being around other people and such no matter what business is not going to be the way it was and it's not gonna be for a lot of small local businesses unfortunately so we had the pre two thousand eight landscape before there was that one kind of financial disaster and here. We have another disaster. Which we haven't even you know such through the damage just yet what happens to the small businesses that are women and minority owned businesses. That had traditionally already been marginalized. And we're having to do more with less from the beginning. What happens to them in this new environment? They are of course even further behind the eight ball and some of the people that I've talked to about this problem have pointedly said that minority owned businesses have been hurt worse and have been preyed upon more aggressively than companies. That are not minority owned so. That's a huge issue tremaine and we hope it doesn't work out that way. What do you think this crisis could mean for the future of mainstream? Well unfortunately I think main street is going to be struggling for quite a while. I just think this came at a really tough time. A lot of companies have a lot of debt that they've already taken on now their revenues or either vastly declined or non-existent. They can't pay that debt. They can't pay their bills. So it's GonNa take a long time for them to come back from that. I'm hoping that it's not a sort of game over for Main Street. One thing that I think we could all benefit from that we increased the regulations over these small business loans. My hope is that we bring the same level of protection that we've brought to the consumer lending arena to the business lending arena. We really need to protect these folks. They are central to the future of the American economy. They're central to the employment levels their central in so many ways we really need to protect them Griffin. Thank you so very much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed it Tremaine. That was Britain Morganson senior financial reporter for NBC News Indigo. It is just one of millions of small business owners who are hurting right now. The Small Business Administration opened up the second round of those paycheck protection program loans on Monday but the site crash because of the high demand and he still hasn't heard if he's been approved even though these are tough times. Andy is trying to stay positive for now. Mutt wagon is still open. And he's reminding himself of the reasons. He loves his job. In the first place yeah. A lot of customers are very supportive and very Thankful for what we're doing We do what we can. If the customer mentioned something about money issues we've had a couple of customers come in that That have lost their jobs and just buying what they can for their dogs. I mean we have a loyalty program. We'll throw a couple extra points throw couple of extra dollars that way. We'll give them an extra coupon. We'll do what we can. Just make them happy. Because we know if they're happy they're gonNA come back to us into America is produced by Isabel Angel. Alison Bailey Aaron. Don Max Jacobs Barbara Rab Clarence high. I should Turner and pre devore thon original music by Hannah's Brown our executive producer is Ellen Franken. Steve Lik Tai is executive producer of audio. I'm Tremaine Lee will be back next week.
Into Music as a Lifeline
"It's pretty incredible to think about but right now because of Corona virus about ninety five percent of all Americans are living under some sort of order to stay home. That's pretty much. Everyone in a country of more than three hundred twenty eight million people being shut in day after day can be stressful and said and lonely and boring. Sometimes it truly can be joyful those of us who love music. And I'm definitely one of them. We can't go to shows. We can't go to the club. We can't get together and just seeing but creatives are creative. We kin and are finding new ways to keep the music going. The importance of music is to keep our spirits up. Even though we're social distancing of course there's some sense of community that's been brought out of that that is kind of new and wouldn't have happened if we hadn't been on this big huge shutdown mainly and this into America in today just a few of the stories of making and using music in these difficult times to help me. I called up an old friend. John How are you sir? I follow Balto. Thompson's career long before we were friends. He's written for a lot of my favorite music and culture magazines and he's really connected to the music industry so when we decided to do an episode about music in this moment. I said I got to get on the line. How're you doing? I have my days own on a macro level. I am truly blast. The family's pretty healthy. I'm in good health but you know it's just it's I go to a lot of anxiety I think we're all going through some level of corona do things -iety do the quarantine but we're finding ways to push through and for a lot of us. It's music oh I mean yeah music as a lifeline. It's been since since Perth. Honestly it's it's almost like a part of my heartbeat and you know instagram and social media has been this great kind of vehicle for the music. Have any of the moments that we've seen stood out for you? Oh I mean history is being made during these times on instagram. Have you been attending denies homeschool party giving Me Life and Joy Kitty in strength? The biggest party in the morning for those who don't Know D. J. D. Nice is a legend in hip hop making records since nineteen eighty six thousand fifteen years old but then club quarantine. He's Jane from his his apartment in La Day. Let's take it back to my first record. Let's go we celebrate all over the world. Let's go up last denies the friend of Mine and you know number of his party's throughout the year and I just assumed it was regular party thing goes on a Thursday randomly. Went into check it out here? Some music eight thousand stayed in there for I think maybe came in the mid point throughout the whole night up thousand in his room. Cranston went back Friday number. We love it was even better. It got up to over twenty thousand people and then Saturday night. It was historic fifty thousand people in this room. And we're celebrating together. Yes we understand. What's going on out here and Saturday night? Across the hundred thousand viewers. We got a hundred thousand people in here with us right now. This is absolutely insane. We started this party five days ago. One hundred thousand people less gold club quarantine pulled together Oprah Bernie Sanders Bernie. Sanders is in here to. This is Stevie. Wonder Michelle Obama Michelle Obama's in here Michelle Obama's. I don't know why I'm nervous. 'cause already DJ. For but I'm still nervous. I this is just crazy. But we're gonNA play something from Michelle Michelle. This is for you and we're all there with everyone we know as well. It was an amazing experience. We all want an here together. We are celebrating together. We're in this together once again denies. Oh my gosh re honest theft in here really what's up. Oh my God rain. I wasn't prepared. I wasn't expecting the community value. In the fellowship that ensued. I mean people were actually talking on the comment sections if it was an actual party like somebody might go bone sue. What are you drinking saying with each other to virtual high fives everything? Can I have this dance? And it was in having being separated from everybody you saw like how much your body I. It's almost like you're ever thirsty and I realized how thirsty you are until you start drinking water and you realize how much needed that exactly. Like your body tells you. It's not going to be a SIP. We want this entire bottle. That's how it felt our street speaking of taking things in people for granted and it's time it's been rough on a lot of those gig workers including work musicians and that brings us to a really interesting musician The into America team talk to. She's a Indian musician. Whose really figuring out how to be creative and figuring all this out from one of America's music capitals when people listen music. They're feeling the emotions and the closeness of somebody else even if they can't be in the same spaces them. My Name Is Rachel. Bateman and I live in Madison Tennessee. Which is on the northeast side of Nashville? I'm a touring musician primarily. I play fiddle and Banjo Guitar. I write songs. My husband's also a professional touring musician and he no were hustlers. We just do what we need to do. And if there's a month where I don't have enough gigs. Then I'll go find something else to do in that month and and make it work aimed. Jackie just explain. I had two big tours lined up. I was going to be about ten to twelve days in March and then I had this big UK European tour lined up for May and June. I usually play with the trio so I had bought two bandmates plane. Tickets applied for work visas. I'd hired a publicist to promote the tour. About maybe the end of February. My husband started saying man. I'm getting a little worried about this virus thing and I'm worried it might start affecting our gigs. And and whenever he would bring that up I was like I just can't think about it because I knew in my head I was like all right. That's a lot of money that I'm GONNA lose it. This cancelled as it has been virtually every night since February. Our lead story tonight. Is the Corona virus outbreak today? The World Health Organization officially calling it a pandemic literally. The whole world is talking about this outbreak. None of us is not affected by its impact. I left for tour on Thursday. Played One show in. Asheville and then the next day the whole tour was cancelled and we turned around and drove right back home and then within a week the rest of my tourists had been cancelled and I spent a whole week. Just kind of sitting there watching this all crumble. In just thinking like what am I going? Do you know what's going to happen now. I'm looking at a debt of about six thousand dollars. In addition to not making any money for two months I was in a really big panic for maybe a week and there was a lot of people that were able to kind of take that feeling and immediately turn it into putting together online festivals. Thank you guys really really fun to to get to do this. I've been feeling a little down today. just the circumstances. We're all struggling in different ways. So this is when Rachel gets involved in one of the first virtual music festivals and. The name is really clever. I happen to love it. It's called shut in and sing. It's been running four or five nights a week since mid-march and basically you pay for a virtual ticket so all the money actually goes to the artists. Everyone's live streaming from their homes. It has this kind of cool Do It yourself. Diy kind of feel to it. My Name's railwaymen and stepped to be opening up. This livestream for amy ray tonight really loved hearing. Lucy plays people who wanted to see the show had to buy a ticket. They had four artists each evening. Each artist will play for about half an hour from their own home. Audience members can comment. There's a constant like chat box going. And then they can tip there booking a lot of different artists at different levels in their career in China. Distribute the money really equally among everyone. It's very much coming from a perspective of. Let's help everyone. I asked my husband George to play a few tunes with me. George Jackson on fiddle vocals. George Beautiful Do. Thanks for playing on. The chat box is a really fun thing about live streams. Thank you all trying not to be distracted by the comments but I appreciate reading them between the songs so it's very it's very warm. Fuzzy feels great now on the flip side like for me this platform crash in the my last song thing. Everyone's what's happening. I hate this. This is the worst like you know. You also see that okay. We're GONNA start over on that song and then we're GonNa get our next guests on. Thank you for sticking with US. Not just figuring out this new life that we that was. Rachel payment from Nashville Tennessee. Talking about the shut in and seeing virtual music festival. What do you think Ab- love it a lot of musicians in? Dj's are finding innovative ways to get a buck for the skills on really innovative ways really to kind of compensate for lack of income. So shut in and seeing is still going on by the way You can find the link in our show page Mexico so bone Su We've found life through music during these tough times. But the music community and all of us really have taken some pretty hefty losses. We've lost some some music greats dacoven like John Prime right there in Nashville. Last week who? The man was an absolute legend. He was only seventy three but also. Ls Marcellus when you think about the legendary family his lineage. What he's meant to New Orleans a city that has weathered storm after storm And now this. This is a big blow man. Yeah absolutely. I mean a condone. My condolences to the Marcellus. I mean he's a godfather and in you know outside of of of giving us these. These great musicians jazz musicians. I mean the work that he p also put into Louisiana New Orleans during Katrina. I mean it for him not to be able to be celebrated style. It's just a tragedy died on April. First he was eighty five years old and I spent years in New Orleans Orleans has been special to me spend many days many afternoons in. Second Lines where you drinking in line behind a brass band. The second line funerals what it means to say. Goodbye in New Orleans and for that community not to send the Great Ellis Marcellus. Away is one of the deeper blows. I think it's you know this whole cove in nineteen situation. It's cut salt cut. Salt cut saw. Each wound is is burns with another level of it and this is a bad man absolutely absolutely one in particular that I will think of when I think of Marcellus and it is. Do you know what it means to Miss New Orleans We'll be right back. Hey It's Chris. As this week on my podcast wise is happening. I'll be talking with computational. Biologists Carl Bergstrom. But we do and don't know about the corona virus once these things get out there and this is sort of a key aspect of misinformation and disinformation is the once. They're out there. They really take off in the spread. So Jonathan Swift said several hundred years ago that falsehood flies and truth comes limping after. And and that's what happens on the Internet. Of course did there's more recent version of this which is known as Brandolini Bay symmetry principle and it says the amount of work that it takes to clean up bowl is an order of magnitude larger than the amount of work it takes to create it so we definitely see that sort of thing happening with all kinds of conspiracy theories including this one around the virus. That's this week on. Why is this happening search for? Why is this happening? Wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. Things are really uncertain right now so feeling safe at home is super important. It's why simply safe has been on my mind. Their friends of the show and for good reason simply has made it easy to get comprehensive protection for your home. There's no technician or salesperson that needs to come and disrupt your house. You don't need to pay any outrageous monthly fees or sign a two year contract. You just order online. Set it up yourself in under an hour and your home is protected. Twenty four seven with emergency dispatch for break-ins fire and more all for just fifty cents a day like most people. I've been spending a lot of time at home and the feeling of security I have because of my simplisafe is really comforting. And I'm not there only fan U. S. news and World Report named simply safe best overall home security of twenty twenty head to simplisafe dot com slash into America. Now and you'll get free shipping and a sixty day risk free trial that's simplisafe dot com slash into America from simply safe and all of us here wishing you safety and good health. There are things we look back on and think. How did I get it so wrong? It might be wearing a Canadian Tuxedo or dating that one person that one time. We're always GONNA get things wrong but shopping for life. Insurance shouldn't be one of them. That's where policy genius comes in policy genius makes finding the right life insurance a breeze in minutes you can compare quotes from top insurers to find your best price you could say fifteen hundred dollars or more a year by using policy genius. Once you apply. Their team will handle all the paperwork for free and they don't just make life insurance easy they can also help you find the right home auto and disability insurance cat from wondrous La Office. Use the site to get life insurance for her and her husband and said they really made what could have been an intimidating process. So much easier and less stressful. So even if you look back on your triple denim days and distress you'll never be distressed about life insurance with genius and just a few minutes. You can find your best price and apply at policy. Genius Dot Com. We all get things wrong from time to time. At least we can get life insurance right with policy genius so when you were a kid. Did you play any instruments sing? What roles music play in young bones? Whose Life Music was everything. Always been my lifeline. it's always been my escape through my therapy and I really feel for teenagers right now because they're not getting that fellowship. You know they're not being able to park in huddle and maybe free style you know like I used to do. I don't think couvert nineteen will will shake that love of music in young people. Our team was also thinking about Kids in music school was canceled all across the country but also think of the spring recitals concerts. The kids a family. We're really looking forward to cancel. But team found one choir and an intrepid choir director in Seattle who said simply the show or at least part of the show must go on. My name is abby. Saudi I live in Seattle Washington and I'm in tenth grade. I sing in Seattle Girls Choir and I'm a first soprano my name is Jacob Winkler. I am the artistic director of the Seattle Girls. Choir were really really close as a community which is amazing. And we'll have sleepovers and things like that which is really fun. There is a a very real sense of family in it for me as well. An important part of this whole job is seeing the difference that it makes in our choristers lives. I found out that the march concerts were cancelled by Jake. I think he sent a message saying you know we wouldn't have any more concerts. And I just remember feeling really sad. Basu remember social distancing started really early in Seattle before anywhere else in the United States. Listening Skills Kids is heartbreaking choir director Jacob had to get really creative and he did. There's a composer named Eric Whitaker. Who Sort of The movie star of coral composers the first virtual choir. I ever saw two thousand ten. He did the virtual choir and that had a hundred and eighty five people who sent in their parts. We had a major fundraiser. That was scheduled for March fourteenth. The shutdown being enforced on us by the corona virus seemed to be actually a perfect opportunity to try that Sort of fundamentally different approach. So the first step was learning the music. Time time to wait. No I do the first thing I did to put. This together was recorded the piano part then. I made a video of myself conducting to the piano part. I put that on Youtube. Send that link to our members and they then viewed that video and they made a video of themselves singing. The part in the video wearing headphones. Because I'm listening to a track and a video made by our director Jake Law so piano track underneath with a metronome going so we can all try to be on time together into. Oh and I'm watching the video while I've singing watching the cutoffs. Are things like that recording. It separately was really hard. I was talking with some of the other girls. And they were all saying it took so many tapes like ours members. Agonize over it. They spend two hours trying to get the right. Take to send to me When you're by yourself you have nothing to base your pitch off of your rhythm off of other than the conductor. Obviously but there's some sort of feeling that I can't really describe that you get when you're singing with a group that is lost when you're singing by yourself. If the person I'm sitting next to makes a slight adjustment I can hear that and adjust my voice to theirs to make sure everything works out. The all sent me videos. I took the audio out of the videos. And then I brought it into an audio editor and I- lined all the parts up and then mixed all the sound together look and then I ran it through digital reverberation software to have it. Try to simulate that acoustical space that you get when you're in a concert hall and then went essentially through the same process again of getting all the videos to line up so that when you see the singers lips moving it matches the audio and I had already mixed together. Am sure it was really hard to get it also lineup but it did. I didn't start o'clock every time I worked on it but it was a lot of time. I think overall I probably spend about thirty hours on it too. My favorite part of the experience was probably seeing it. All come together. I was a little bit dismayed. Maybe when I send my recording because it wasn't very good but then it all came together is the last time I looked. It was a over thirty two thousand views we would have never performed for thirty two thousand people or however many have viewed it which is awesome. My friends who might not come to a concert. I got to send it to them to say you know. This is what I do after school. Says why can't place all the time? Aw Aw were social distancing. There's some sense of community that's been brought out of that. That is kind of new and wouldn't have happened if we hadn't been on this big huge shutdown. The importance of music is to keep our spirits up. We're in this situation and May as well make the best of it. Singing or listening to music is a really great way to still feel connected. Even in this time were super disconnected but always music is important. It always makes you feel good. That was Abby Assadi Director Jacob Winkler of the Seattle Girls Choir talking about their virtual performance of the song. Not-i'm you know the painstaking work? It took to make that happen and the dedication and commitment not just by conducted Jacob but the kids. I'm blown man. That's that's amazing. How many kids were there? Twenty amazing I mean I felt the lady when she was talking about Singing by yourself as opposed to would acquire. I mean the reason choirs so powerful because it's combusted energy companies combination of energies. That makes us one great energy. I definitely feel Annette and somehow they made it happen. Amazing amazing. What's what's grabbing your attention. These days you take a bunch of random moments That have just filled me with some warmth and during the dark days. You know I'll take all the warmth that can get There was a nurse. Measure exactly where she was but you could tell it was kind of the end of a long day in a long shift and we've all heard the horror stories that are frontline. Healthcare workers going through. This woman is leaning on the wall and she's singing amazing grace and it's washing over. Everyone in the room will say our and it just it just did something man where he's just it was so beautiful owned it. It just went straight to the core. The next moment that stands out for me it does a little something different from the mouths of children. There's great joy. Listen this one. Glad about a CA- canopy right. Love it but those of you at home. Who Haven't seen this if you look at these kids face with all confidence and is beautiful little smiles thing and everything's GonNa be alright. I believe him I look face. I hear his voice and I believe in my horizon. Three little birds doorstep singing sleet songs. Is there a more fitting in necessary song right now now the billing true? I don't think so. I think he got it right. Said this message and sure may not add. Today used the music. It's always been a medicine. It's always been there for us so whether you're trying to get through the virus or just trying to get do quarantine. This medicine has always been there for you in its at your disposal now use it Thomson. You can find him in all your favorite magazines. Let's add screenwriter to that. Journalists Music Lover. And your so tapped in math. Thank you so much for spending this time with us. We really really appreciate it and are better for it. Thank you protect your Bro. That was my friend. Boats who Thompson. He wrote an oral history of the night. We talked about when more than one hundred thousand people joined. Dj Denies At club. Corentin on instagram live from medium. You can find the link to that in our show notes and before we go one more way. People are connecting right now through sound. It's not technically music. What is sweet all the same? Maybe this is happening where you are each evening. At a designated time people just regular people who ever feel so moved. They clap and cheer banged. Pots generally make noise for all the first responders and essential workers who are literally putting their lives on the line for the rest of US right. Now it's a reminder that we are not alone we slept neighbors and communities and that we are rising up to support each other into America is by Bill Angel House and Bailey. Aaron Dong Max Jacobs Barbara Rab Claire Tie Aisha Turner and Creepy Var thon special. Thanks to our colleagues at NBC for sending in their own recordings of the seven PM. Clap around New York City original music by Hannah's Brown our Executive Producer Ellen Franken Steve Lik Tai is executive producer of audio. I'm Tremaine Lee will be back next Thursday. Hi This is Matthew Yglesias Co host of the weeds and the weeds podcast for people who love diving into the details behind the policies and ideas. That helped drive our lives every Tuesday and Friday. I'm joined by Darren Lynn Coast and Ezra Klein and a variety of other leading box voices policy experts from around the country to dig into the weeds on important issues recently covered the democratic debates deep conversation at the sudden rise in Semitism. Welcome Sarah Cliff from the New York. Times back to finally figure out how we can achieve universal healthcare. If you're the kind of person that likes to dive deep or you want to keep up with the current political landscape this show is for you. 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Bonus: Tom Brokaw Remembers Watergate
"Article two section two of the Constitution. There is a gap in another presidential tape and a conversation in March nineteen seventy-three between President President Nixon and John Ehrlichman. America needs a full time president and a fulltime Congress Congress particularly at this time with problems we face at home and abroad therefore I shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow tomorrow who from NBC News. This is article two inside impeachment. I'm Steve Cranky. Today is Saturday Saturday November sixteenth. And we're bringing you a special bonus episode today and this one really is special. Sometimes I will pick up a book. I'll read a few pages. I'll put it down. Oh No tell myself I'm going to get back to it later. And then of course. I never end up doing that. That actually happens with a lot of books. I try to read books that tell myself I should be reading but it is not not what happened when I got a copy of the book whose author I am about to talk with the fall of Richard. Nixon Remembers Watergate. Is as you might guess from the title. The the story of the final year of Richard Nixon's presidency. It's got a narrator that we all know very well on NBC News. Washington Watergate was the story that it made him a household name. Millions of Americans time was a rising star at NBC in the Early One thousand nine hundred seventy s and with a scandal heating up he became NBC's White House correspondent in the summer of seventy three. So he was there for every twist and turn as Nixon fell from grace in experience adds a new dimension to this book. It's not just a political history three it's also a personal history and it's a cultural history. It's the story of what Washington was like back then with the media world was like back then reading it. You realize just how much everything everything has changed in the four decades since Watergate but you realize how much Watergate itself was instrumental in that change in just a quick note. You're to hear. Tom Mentioned some names. You probably haven't heard too while folks like John Ehrlichman and HR Holdman if you need a refresher on who the key players are. Check out our our show notes. We've got a key written up for you. You can find those notes in the article two feet wherever you get your podcast but without any further ado let get to this conversation. I can't tell you how much I enjoyed this one. I hope you enjoy it to. NBC Senior Correspondent Longtime Anchor of the NBC nightly news and author of the fall of Richard Nixon Nixon. A reporter Remembers Watergate. Tom Brokaw Tom. Welcome and thanks for sitting down with me good to be here one impeachment saga playing out. Now here's a book about the most famous impeachment. Saga your beginnings as a White House correspondent sync up with the Watergate scandal. You came in to be. NBC News White House has correspondent just as the scandal was exploding. I had immodestly a pretty big reputation of the company is a political reporter assigned to the West Coast. I was doing Something we don't do anymore. I did the eleven o'clock news out there but I also did a lot of our principal political reporting so they kept saying. You gotta come East. Tom And I had got a house on the beach in California. You know the summertime was great. wintertime is better because I never wore tie when I was not on the air and it was exciting because California was moving into this New Era Oregon starts and then I do that I had to go east and so I did the whole time line. Here it's fascinating you go from one thousand nine hundred. Ninety two Richard Nixon was reelected in one of the most massive landslides in American history. The United States to one for George McGovern more than sixty percent of the vote less than two years later he leaves office facing impeachment. He chooses to resign. The Watergate Watergate break-in took place in June of seventy two during the campaign obviously did not keep Nixon from winning that landslide. When did you? I have a realization that wow this is a big thing Watergate but actually look at a copy of the day of the breaking Garrick. utley was or Saturday night anchor and he said there's an odd story or something like that out of Washington tonight. Burglars were caught trying to break into the Democratic Party headquarters. That's all we know. That was the first thing that was ever on the air on NBC Z.. And then it began to unravel more and more as two young reporters Woodward and Bernstein began to peel away. Like great. Great Police blotter artery. Five men were arrested early Saturday. We're while trying to install eavesdropping equipment at the Democratic National Committee and it turns out that one of them has as an office and the headquarters of the Committee for the re election of the president and the White House was in a free fall of panic. The president's press secretary said of this incident. I'm not going trying to comment from the White House on a third rate burglary attempt. Obviously he said we don't condone that second rate activity they were not all audit at the beginning. The President I'm convinced did not know what they were going to try to do but he kind of gave. If you will the go side to anything counts at this point so it was starting to unravel all that summer. And after the election and by the time midsummer nineteen seventy-three. We'd have the hearings and the hearings were devastating. Can you hold on a minute. John Mitchell all the principal people were lying and getting caught at it. And we're headed off to jail. The time I got to Washington in August Nineteen Seventy S. Free the question was what was Nixon's role. That was the big question and he made it a national address to the country saying I had no prior knowledge of the Watergate break. I didn't know about it. I neither took part in nor- new about any of the subsequent cover-up I feel terrible was having I'll take responsibility but trust me. I was not personally involved in all that. I need her authorized nor encourage subordinates. It's too engaged in illegal or improper campaign tactics. That was and that is the simple truth. I moved into Washington The new kid on the block it was off to the races. You mentioned the Senate Watergate hearings so these play out. Basically made October of nineteen seventy-three. Three I hear a lot of people. These days drawing parallels with the hearings that are taking place now for trump in Ukraine and they look back to the Senate Watergate hearings and they say wow the Senate Watergate. The Gate hearings really moved public opinion. Well they were bipartisan. One thing Howard Baker was checking in with the White House. We found out later at the end of the day. What did the president know? And when did he know that was his recurring question. And then the Democrats and the Republicans found a way to work through it in some fashion and the whole country was watching late afternoon. We didn't have MSNBC WE didn't have full-time television free networks. This is highly unusual all to see these kinds of earrings and the cast of characters. Were frankly right out of Hollywood to speak the truth and to live the truth and you need a clear picture. Then you've had so far of what was really going on at the White House in June nineteen seventy two in the following months. He obviously didn't report to me everything he did. No Sir reported boarded the everything he found. Now I don't believe he did that. I at the time I thought he was reporting. Well anyway general everything. He did not record any details to me. Mr Moore indicated that the election of the president was so important that you did not wish to advise the president of the White House horror stories because because he might blow the lid off and thereby endanger the election. I think that is a reasonable summary of hydraulic at every turn and then at at the end of the day you would have a clear idea of where we're going and how we're GONNA get there by the end of that summer. It was clear that Haldeman Ehrlichman at all the principal advisors the president were as guilty as hell and there are headed for jail. What you're describing Americans turning on their televisions flip into one of those three or four channels? They got watching watching these hearings. Hearing about a taping system in the White House. or or what have you shocking for Americans back then to hear these sorts of things. I don't think shocking is the right word. I mean off. Politics Ain't beanbag. Mister Dooley said in Chicago and everybody kind of knew that there was an awareness that this is a tough business and then how how it played out with so dramatic and so compelling that people were absorbed as a might have been absorbed at a great crime novel of some kind. Couldn't wait to turn the page. I remember friends of mine saying that. They went to the gym every afternoon and got on a rowing machine. Just just to watch Watergate hearings that were going on. The country came to a stop. Those hearings started again and then the characters were they were some of them. Obviously like the people who work for Nixon were bright polished. Young men mostly. Who didn't have have a clue about what they were doing? When we're doing it I knew hold on before? He was Haldeman and he was a straight Arrow guy and the idea that he would lies is openly as he did. Ehrlichman who'd been an eagle scout and distinguished career in Seattle Washington. It didn't make sense but they did. You know you can't make this stuff up. There was this larger portrait of what could go wrong in American politics in the big issue that was hovering being over. All of this and seventy three seventy four was whether the tapes the White House tapes would be made available to the public. Yes and Pat Buchanan Cannon Said Misprision take him on the Lawn Burnham and then tell the country you have burnt them. They won't know on him but he was pushed back by Alhaji el-Hage by other legal people were saying. Oh that's destroying evidence but it's pretty clear that with that eighteen minute gap. That was very clumsily. Exercise is the president was not very good with anything was small and mechanical pretty clear that he went into race a very damaging part of those tapes but the idea of having tapes and once it got out keeping their tapes because they were not under any legal obligation to keep him and he could have maybe maybe he could've the busted out and said those are my tapes. I burn them because I don't think there's any use for them in the country You either trust the president or not and tough it out. Once the tapes were there and the indictments of the people were there. The conversations that you heard in the Oval Office then it was over for him it was just a matter of. Oh how long it would take for them to play out. You mentioned months of Watergate hearings in nineteen seventy-three the public public opinion. Changing half of those is poll. Think Watergate is a very serious matter. three-quarters of those polled think. The president was involved to some extent and while the number of people who said in June that the president should be impeached and removed from office was eighteen percent this month. July that number has risen to twenty four one out of every four adults polled. It still isn't until August of seventy four when everything finally comes to a head the House Judiciary Committee convenes hearings. June and July of seventy four. This is where they drop the articles of impeachment and they start to vote on them talk a little bit about that process. The actual articles of impeachment being drawn up. It was just a political process. It was at work here. There were there were personal decisions being made by members of that committee we now have Republicans that Kinda solid file supporting president trump at that point. Republicans beginning said that they were for the president. Then as information came out they began to back away from their very very firm position but they wouldn't come out quite and say I'm shocked by what I'm seeing until the tapes came out I had been talking to a lot of Republicans at that point and that was a turning point once they read what we're on those tapes. The vulgarity is on the The attitude about Jews for example or about people who were or Harvard graduates or God damn it whatever it takes to get this done. We're going to get it done. And so that neutralized to a great degree what support he had on the hill from his own party and then people begin to back away from him. The next thing that happens though before Nixon resigns is the smoking gun tape in a taped Nixon's still have a chance. No there were too many other episodes where he plainly has a deep involvement by then John Dean was talking thing you have to remember is that he kept saying executive executive privilege. The law has long recognized that there are kinds of conversations that are entitled to be kept confidential even at the cost of doing without critical evidence the legal proceeding. This rule applies for example to conversations between the lawyer and a client between a priest as the penitente and between a husband and wife in each case it is thought so important that the parties be able to talk freely to each other deck for hundreds of years the law has said these conversations are privileged and that their disclosure cannot be compelled in a clerk. Mark I had a really terrific researcher working with me and I said we have to find out whether executive privilege has application during an impeachment proceeding. So she he went and talked to a number of experts in the field including conservative legal professors at Yale and they said doesn't have application if it's impeachment proceeding if it's an impeachment proceeding then presidential protection is gone. People have a right to know what is happening here that came in an the exchange. I had with the president of the news conference he actually had was in the Houston big broadcasters convention and I had worked hard on this question just as president president Tom Brokaw. NBC News following my colleague. Mr Rather question you have referred here again tonight as you have in the past about what you call the precedence of past presidents and withholding whitehouse the house material from the House Judiciary Committee so Mr President. My question is this. Aren't your statements to that matter historically inaccurate or at least misleading the national about it and he said I know you'd leading something effective. He's got the right thing. But I believe that executive privilege will prevail. And I'm not going to to give up to any demand that I believe would weaken the presidency of the United States. I will not participate in the destruction of the office of the president of the United States. While I'm in this office and that's what the courtroom court ruled that it did not prevail. And we we had a right to see the tapes. You do at that point it was over although we later learned from Woodward and Bernstein there was a big debate in the family and also in the White House about whether he should try to go to the public. We go to the high risk and say I have a right here to protect executive privilege in the White House but it was over. Can you remember the moment when you found out he was resigning I had been working with. A couple of Republicans on the hill tried to keep pace with what was going on and one of them call me and he said Mistpro. You've been very patient with me. You should know the Barry Goldwater and congressman roads from Oklahoma on their way to the White House. Sell the prison. The time is up and this is how crazy it was so I had this huge story very important Republican I call NBC nightly news. Desk said I said I got it and they said you need a second source. Say you nuts. This is the number two guy and the Senate Republican leadership they said you need a second source. I was furious I hung up the phone fodder something Barry Goldwater. Junior was a congressman from California that I knew and I picked up the phone and call them right. Said Barry how you doing he said Great. I suppose something me about your father coming to the White House and a half boy. Isn't that something. Thank you very much. I'm going to own Gold White House. NBC and I got a second source. That's Barry Goldwater Junior. What was that day like? This is the only time in American history that this has happened to president resigning and leaving office. What was that day like? In Washington. There was a relief on the part of people who've worked for Nixon Who suspected that he was guilty? That was finally coming to a conclusion. The Anti Nixon crowd especially who'd drawn from the Antiwar Movement came pouring at a Washington Washington and went to Lafayette Square and regathered there and they were not hostile. They're not big ugly signs of any kind people understood the gravity of what we're going through. The president of the United States is resigning for the first time. Where do we go from here? The process worked. The rule of law has prevailed and I was very impressed by that. I was out that night and this is the nights that Nixon made his farewell speech. Good evening this is the thirty-seven time. I have spoken to you from this office. I shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow. Vice President didn't for will be sworn in as president at that are in this office when it was over. I was quite critical of the tone tone of his speech and the content of it because he never really owned up he really never said I was wrong. I betray you. I misled the country. And I will carry that to migrate or something to that effect throughout the long and difficult period of Watergate. I felt it was my duty to persevere make every possible effort to complete the term of office to what you elected me. What he said was I was trying to do the right thing by any war a a lot of other stuff but he never stepped up to it and leaving. I do so with this prayer. May God's grace be with you and all the days ahead the next morning. He was going to appear on the east from the White House. And I wanted to be in that room president. Tom Brokaw has that story as president. Richard Nixon has drawn crowds to the vast ellipse south of the White House before. But those were triumphs. This was not and it was was a melancholy gathering and eastern of the White House. Mr and Mrs Nixon and their daughters made their final appearance as the first family in the White House East Ooh President Chemotherapy remodeling speech. Mother being saint which in fact she was now however we look to the future. Sure we've done some things wrong in this administration and the top man always takes the responsibility and I've never ducked doc ID and then he talked as he often did about money. I only wish that I were a wealthy deman- he was consumed by money. And he said I'm not a wealthy man but if I had a lot of wealth I would make sure that all of you would share in it and it was quite open. And it's so typical of him at that point present time I've got to find a way to pay taxes. And then it was over and then he came out and he walked to the helicopter. Air Force wanted to fly back to California and then the transition took human woman forum as the fords and the Knicks. Walk out of the White House together. General Alexander Haig Mr Nick. Chico south with a final salute of encouragement to as commander undoing chief got on that famous V for victory sign and then got into the helicopter the final helicopter flight as president away from the White House and flew to California when he landed in California. Richard Nixon was a private citizen but he drew thousands of cheering supporters to L. Tall Marine airbase from there. He went to San Clemente near where he grew up and whereas boy he has written he listened to train whistles in the night and dream too far off places Tom Brokaw. NBC News Washington. When Gerald Ford Becomes President I always find it interesting to look at the polling the Gallup polling from his presidency the first month he's President August or early September seventy four sky-high? Hi popularity people seem to really like him and then he makes that decision to pardon. Richard Nixon deeply unpopular. At the time. How does that pardon look in history to you now? I think it was the right call. I didn't at the time but it would have been a torture for the country and for the system to have gone through a hearing at a trial while Richard Nixon. Finally I feel that Richard Nixon and his loved ones have suffered enough and will continue to suffer. No matter what I do. Nixon was not going to recover from his disgrace and there was no penalty that would exceed the fact that he was forced out of the office. First and then four hundred nine to become president and one of the reasons that he survived that had such decency a full free and absolute pardon onto Richard Heard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he Richard Nixon has committed or may have committed and he was popular on the hill that also helped him. They were not people out to kneecap Gerry Ford because they like them and they thought it was in our best interest in the country to move. Oh forward in some fashion at one vivid memory of the fall of that year congressional elections. I went out to Iowa to see how they were taking it and it was a farmer about an eighteen eighteen forty eight farm. All picking corn is corn picker behind him. And I say no to come over and I said I'm just curious about what you think. What's what's going on in Washington and the part of the president? He's buddy corners four twenty-five abortion. I don't care about anything else except that and got back on the tractor and wonder about plot and that kind of puts it all in context in the early nineteen nineties. I would say I started following politics as a kid and when one of the things I remember from that period he was on Sunday shows. He had books coming out every year. He was treated as an elder statesman. And I remember my. My father explained to me that about fifteen years earlier. This whole Watergate thing had happened it seems there was a period there were Nixon while he was still around. We're we're Nixon was able to sort of re enter public life in a in a respected way. He he was never ever going to be giving up in the public arena. Whatever happened whom he would not give up if you go back and read the early days of Richard Nixon Childhood F up? Thomas has written a wonderful book about that. He was always a guy who was kind of a Dorky uncoordinated but brilliant mine who is try to carve out a place for himself the big arena and he never ever gave that up was always gonNa have Watergate as the major part of his legacy but to add more more context the legacy foreign policy of mind that sort of thing did he succeed in complicating his legacy at all and less twenty depends on what you thought about him before all all that I saw somebody a year ago who was a an advanced man for him campaigns he sold besotted by Richard Nixon. We had a pretty sharp exchange about who Nixon really was an healer communities at Tom he was a great man. said he was not a great man. He would not have allowed that to happen. Great men don't do that in light of the country. He was a confused man. I always sold out who he was and what he needed to do to get to where he wanted to get to but he was not a great man he did some great things in that first term but in the end he betrayed. His family is party his country and most oh swell himself WANNA bring it to trump into parallels or lack of parallels one thing you said earlier jumped out at me that what became clear during the Watergate hearings in nineteen seventy three into seventy four was the contrast between the Nixon behind the scenes and the Public Nixon and that was a very jarring contrast contrast for people to sort of absorb does the fact with Donald Trump that when we see a transcript of the call with the president of Ukraine when we see little glimpses of what's happening behind in the scenes the fact that really does seem like the same trump we see in public. Does that insulate him politically in a way that Nixon wasn't no I think what we see. It was Donald Trump twenty four. Seven is the guy that we know. I mean you can look at the transcript of conversation but all go to listen to those rallies how he talks to people and how he abuses not just the office but decency and I just find it. I'm not quite sure I hi can characterize it. I find it outrageous that so many people cheer that on and I know some of them personally they say it's about time we talk that way. I I don't think it is. Republican Democrat thinks the presidency represents a higher calling in a higher order for this country and he is abused that uh office and abuse that legacy of presidents who are tough guys. There's no question about it. We've not yet had a wallet. But they're tough. You have to be tough off but at the same time. There is a standard that is expected of a national leader and he walks all over twenty four seven because he is a maniacal articles self absorbed guy who believes that if he says it's got to be right and so. I don't think we've ever seen anybody quite like him. Him In the Oval Office. It's real test of the country. And by the way I think the countries up to it. What do you think Nixon would've made of trump? He would've despising he wouldn't have said so publicly. But he would have mocked him behind the scenes Nixon. Whatever else we thought about it was a keen suit of international affairs and political process from his earliest years on paid attention to it and he was willing to challenge the system he is willing to cut corners but to go to the degree that this president has was just not an who he was at the end obviously he betrayed himself of and the country but trump is unique quite honestly and look? It's up to the country to decide what kind of oppression. So they want I. I don't know what's going to happen in this next race. I don't think anybody does at this point. If you look at it in congressional terms it should be a layup for the Democrats but the Democrats now seem not to be able to get a kind of cohesive coherent approach to what they WanNa do about him. So we're in for a test. I also don't know what's going to happen next year but I'm eagerly looking forward to covering in hearing from you throughout the campaign but Tom Brokaw author of the fall of Richard Nixon in a reporter remembers Watergate. Thanks for joining us. Always my pleasure Article two inside impeachment is produced by Claire. Tie Isabelle Angel Max Jacobs Alison Bailey. Adam Abo- Aaron Dolan and Barbara Rab or executive executive producer. Is Ellen Franken Steve. Lik Tai is the executive producer of audio. I'm Steve Kornacki. We'll be back on Monday. Good evening everyone breaking news lester. Are you afraid. Iran is playing with fire. The most trusted TV news anchor in America here in Normandy. Hundreds gather took honor the heroes. This is what it means to be American evenings on your local N._B._C. Station.
Into Dirty Air
"Time of crisis numbers matter. They tell a story across the country. They're telling us that black people are dying and higher rates from cove in nineteen. That's true in Louisiana where numbers tell us that. African Americans represent fifty six percent of the fatalities despite being only thirty two percent of the population. Numbers also tell us that some regions are struggling more than others to keep cove in nineteen at bay in the South East part of Louisiana. Say John the Baptist and Saint James Parishes are among the twenty US counties with the highest per capita death rate from corona virus. That's according to analysis by The Times Picayune and advocate but the land here it tells the story to winding alongside the twist and turns of the Mississippi River. This region was once known as the German coast of Louisiana in eighteen. Eleven five hundred people arm themselves with muskets and ammunition and led a rebellion. It was the largest labor vote in US history but ultimately it fell short. Slavery will continue in Louisiana for more than fifty years when it finally ended plantation owners sold their land and black people whose families had been enslaved stayed nearby share cropping reple- slavery farms replace plantations and industry eventually replace farms with industry. Came something else. Pollution Smell like rob me. Smell it sewage. Smell that so many different things but smell bay and it gets into your nostrils. Oh It's also I'm tr- mainly and this is into America a podcast about politics about policy and the power. Both had in shaping the lives of the American people this week. We're going into a place called cancer alley and eighty five mile stretch between Baton Rouge and New Orleans that today is home to more than two hundred plants and refineries. It's also home to high rates pollution high rates of disease. And it's where we are seeing some of the highest rates of death from couvert nineteen. The industry's killing US. And on top of that the corona viruses killing us. So we have double whammy. That's an economic injustice an environmental injustice and racial injustice. And then you add health overlaid on top. It's a health injustice this stretch of land along the Mississippi where freedom was fought for. There's a new generation of black LOUISIANANS fighting for their lives Saint James Parish Spans both sides of the Mississippi River about halfway between Baton Rouge and New Orleans. It's small with a population of about twenty thousand people growing up. Saint James Sharon Levin Daddy Sugar Cane farmer who also raised hogs chickens. Even a bull if you go to the fence Bulworth and you had on that. Bill would come after you charge after you. You sound like a means. Something bull was so mean. Sharing owns about twenty acres of family land on the east side of the river. Her family has been in Saint James for three generations AU gratin yard and play. It was the American Dream. Ever so wonderful. Everything was Nice. The air was clean. The water was cleaned. We could drink water from the hydrant. We just breathe clean air in the nineteen sixties which Sharon was eighth grade. Things began to change around Saint James. Her family learn that fertilizer plant was coming to the parish will happen because my dad was dead because he was telling my mom about it. How I plant coming in? It is going to be a fertilizer plant and is going to bring jobs to Saint James and they were happy so I was glad to people. She was in school with began saying they went to work in the plant some day. I thought that was wonderful but not knowing what I know today. Well years by then more started coming in then. I noticed a company called Coke. Not a change. It's a new store and Shell are then over the years ago. One Call Planes New Star Energy Shell Oil Plains all American pipeline. All these companies Sharon mentioned are in the oil and gas industry and they're all still in the area. Some folks we spoke to Saint. James said those jobs. They hope for didn't really pan out for black people and over time as more plants began popping up throughout the parish. More people started getting sick. Some of them had stomach cancer. Some have kidney cancer. Oh one of them had brain cancer so many different types of cancer in the breast counts as the top one in this neighborhood. I was getting sick but that was because people just was getting sick. Thought maybe was myself. I thought I was getting older and I started having all kinds of things wrong my body but I didn't think anything of it because I thought desperate for years ago at age sixty three. Sharon was diagnosed with autoimmune hepatitis. I thought it was something that just happened. Never thought it was. The industry never gonNA millionaires. Everybody thought the industry was good. When did the switch kind of flip and you realize that perhaps the stuff you're breathing in industry around you in two thousand Eighteen Shane? My I the bear when what what was wrong with me. Didn't know that we didn't associated with the industry. Sharon told me that's what she started reading up. Cancer Rally is a nickname that local state has been around for more than thirty years chemicals emitted from nearby plants. Things like ethylene. Oxide and benzene are known carcinogens. And Seven of the ten census tracts with the highest cancer risk in the nation are found. Here that's according to data from the Environmental Protection Agency. The plants are mostly building a majority black communities and poverty increases the closer. You get to them. There's a reason companies WANNA set up shop in this. If you could dream up the ideal location to start or expand your company. What would that place be like a twenty seven ad for the Saint James Parish Tourism Bureau? Toutes location here. In Southeast Louisiana. Saint James Parish has become one of the hottest properties in the United States. Why because in Saint James Your Business can be right in the middle of it all? There's easy access to shipping lanes along the Mississippi. Inexpensive land to build on and Louisiana has a reputation for being lax on environmental regulations industrial plants with high toxic emissions must report them to the EPA nationally plan emissions are down but in Louisiana. The number of plants that reported high emissions grew by twenty five percent over the last three decades. We reached out to the Louisiana Department environmental quality. They told US via email at the state is in line with EPA standards for clean air and water and they said that when they grant permits their mission is to protect human health and the environment and that they balanced that against the social and economic benefits of the plants in Saint James Parish alone. There are over thirty petrochemical plants while the population is pretty evenly. Split forty nine percent black forty nine percent white. The planet largely concentrated in the Fifth District of the parish. Where Sharon leaves? The district is over eighty percent black when you look out your window in your community. How the pollution actually presenting itself? Do you see it in the air. Do you see it on the ground. Like how does it physically present when you get up in the morning? Your car's covered with just no white particles. If it's humid out there just the wind blowing you could see it blowing in the air when I get up in the morning to blow to work. Lima houses six Thursday morning opened the door. And I do a lot of Quebec in this male. You wouldn't you wouldn't be able to live out here. And the plants keep coming sham delighted to announce all of this extraordinary capital investment job creation. Right here in Saint James Parish just about two miles from the foot of Sunshine Bridge in July of two thousand eighteen governor. John Bel Edwards announced at taiwan-based Formosa Plastics. Was planning to build a nine point. Four Billion Dollar Plastics factory of Saint James Fourteen plants spread across twenty three hundred acres of land. Law Have Mercy. I literally got which I sit down and I couldn't believe it. That was the governor voted for. And he's going to put this right next to me just so sick that day. The company which already has a prison van. Roos has promised twelve hundred permanent well-paying jobs and eight thousand temporary construction jobs at his new Saint James Location and they say they are eager to be good neighbors they funded a park in the fifth district supported education programs and donate it to a local hospital. They also say they believe. This project poses no risk none at all to the community and that they planned to follow all emissions guidelines set by the EPA and the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality but the new plant were reportedly double the amount of air pollution in the parish. It will be just one mile from an elementary school and two miles from. Sharon's home for Sharon. The idea of yet. Another plant coming to town is inconceivable. I said I couldn't take it just. I just can't can't live here with this next to me so we're twenty eighteen. Sharon founded a group called rise. Saint James to fight the Formosa plant and not long after the community discovered that the plan petrochemical complex would be built on what are believed to be gravesites for his slave people. It takes my heart out to know that these industry are doing these thank bill and on top of people that are Barrett. These are not animals. These people they still laying there. The Berry died. There were buried there so at least you can respect that for most is now facing a lawsuit from rise and other environmental and community groups. Who are trying to stop construction. The company declined to comment on the suit but reportedly fenced off the location of the graves. Formosa hit pause on construction a few weeks ago in part due to concerns about the spread of Corona virus. They told us they haven't decided when things will pick back up wall. Construction is on hold. Corona virus is spreading in Louisiana Lee Sharon and her neighbors and Saint James. Facing another fight more on that after the break. Hey It's Chris Hayes. Podcast wise is happening. I'll be talking with author of Rebecca Solnit about the remarkable communities that get built amidst disaster. There are people organizing in most communities across the country and doing other forms of it in other countries to figure out. How do we take care of each other in the context of not being able to physically be with each other in ordinary ways? And it's just extraordinary seeing both the intensive this desire to help people you may never meet in the creativity and figuring out how to do it and that is a really important part of who human beings are in times like this that I think is always dormant latent within us it. It's as though it find fertile soil to grow on these moments this week on. Why is this happening? Surfer wise is happening. Wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. There's an old saying that's been popping up a lot. These days. They're white. America catches a cold black. America gets pneumonia at the beginning of April Governor Edwards address. What was then the corona virus disparity Louisiana disturbingly? This information is gonNA show you this slightly more than seventy percent of all the deaths in Louisiana or of African Americans and so that deserves more attention than we. We're going to have to dig into that and see what we can do to slow that. Trend down hypertension is the leading. We don't yet know the racial breakdown in Saint James Parish but the fatality rate from nineteen is high overall sitting at about seven point eight percent. That's higher than New York City the epicenter of the outbreak. Sharon Levin has watched as virus has moved in. Tell me about how you can have been impacted by corona virus. Do you know folks who have been directly impacted? Yes my friend Irma. She's in a hospital right now. How Lo boy has the virus and this bus driver that I knew she was older retired bus driver. She died and her. Two children is in the hospital right now. Fighting the virus and one of one of the passes over here in Saint James he died. He was at Church that Sunday and he was telling his wife he was feeling bad. You've been feeling bad the whole week but he thought he goes to flu so they made him go to the hospital in. Saint James and he died that Wednesday. You know. We're seeing very high death. Rates from Corona virus in Saint James Parish and in nearby Saint John the Baptist which has the highest death rate from Cova of any county with a population of five thousand more across the entire country. Which is obviously a big deal. Do you think there's a connection between pollution in Saint James and the rate at which people are dying from Corona virus? Yes I do think there's a connection. Yes I did because we already sick viruses coming on top of our sickness. We now know that Kobe. Nineteen is especially unforgiving for people with compromised immune systems like people with cancer or heart conditions and in Louisiana hypertension otherwise known as High. Blood pressure has been a factor in more than half of corona virus deaths a major cause of hypertension air pollution earlier. This month Harvard released a preliminary study vestiges long-term exposure to air pollution is connected to the most severe cova symptoms and higher mortality rates from the disease but instead of ratcheting up emissions rules in response to this crisis the regulations are getting looser and plants are still operating in March the Environmental Protection Agency suspended enforcement of environmental laws telling companies. They would not need to meet standards during this outbreak. The temporary policy has no indicate that means places like Saint James Parish and other communities along Louisiana Chemical Corridor could be at even greater. Risk is still difficult to convince people that these issues are real so to find out more about these risks. I turned to a man that many people call the father of environmental justice. My Name is Dr Robert Bullard Professor Urban Planning and Environmental Policy at Texas University in Houston Texas and for the last forty plus years. I've been working on issues related to Environmental Justice Environmental Racism and policies and practices that disproportionately impact pull people in people call them. What exactly does environmental justice mean will environmental justice embraces the principle that all communities and people are entitled to Equal Protection of our environmental laws in transportation housing energy health laws and regulations environmental. Racism is is a form of discrimination that disproportionately impact people call her. Most people would say well. Everybody has a right to breathe clean air and clean water in. Most people take that for granted because most people in this country don't live that life living everyday twenty four seven breathing dirty air. A having you know trucks run through the neighborhood dumping near diesel fumes or having freeways and highways run through their neighborhoods and so the pattern of where these things go planners call them locally unwanted. Land uses We call them. Ask these we call him dirty industries. They they are targeted to community college. Not Random is not accidental. And it's on purpose zip. Code is one of the best predictors of health will being you tell me Your Zip Code you tell them was India Zip code. I can tell you how healthy you are community so call have an African American community have more than their fair share of things that other people don't want such polluting facilities and fewer those facilities that make us healthy such as parks and greenspace and full service grocery stores good schools and and those things that we know make for healthy community. And that's what environmental justice is all about. It's about fairness justice inequity so it sounds like black folks especially have had this kind of exploited relationship with big industry from times past into times now. It's been uninterrupted. And if you look at the total impacts. It shows up in health disparities May. They don't call it cancer alley for nothing with the arrival of crooner virus health disparities or a death sentence for some people. And so when you talk about you know having communities that are with all the chemicals being pumped out not having access to good quality healthcare high concentration of people who are uninsured then you have lots of underlying conditions that make it right for a heat seeking missile lack. Cova nineteen is basically going to the most vulnerable places and seeking out the population that is most vulnerable but communities on ground for many many years. Could tell you they don't need Harvard to tell you that pollution is make people say if you forty miles away away from the pollution you healthier commonsense but also science is pointing to this vulnerability when you described. Cova nineteen as a he seeking missile. And I it's not a stretch to see the destruction of that missile. But it makes sense when you describe it like that covered. Nineteen is a disaster. It's a catastrophe is a pandemic but disasters historically have disproportionately impacted the most vulnerable populations when it comes to preparedness when it comes to the recovery and when it comes to trying to develop policies to address these issues and so the struggle for you know that's happening in these parishes St James and like Saint John The baptist. These people have been fighting for decades. And it's the same fight. It's the same Straw. This struggle where environmental gaps in health care gaps meet a raging pandemic is playing out all across the country disproportionate death rates happening in Chicago. Detroit and New Orleans and other places. It'S NOT RANDOM. It's not isolated. It's not coincidental. According to State data in Illinois African Americans make up fifteen percent of the population but thirty eight percent of the known. Covert death in nearby Michigan. The State's population fourteen percent black but African Americans are forty percent of those who've died from corona virus evolution and pollution in general is segregated and so is America and when you get that segregation and you get that overlay then you get a disproportionate share of illnesses and this. So what about folks who? Who say you know? I just don't buy this racism argument. You know I wanna see the numbers. Give me something that I can actually chew on over the last three and a half decades. Numerous studies have shown that race is still the most potent variable for explaining who gets polluted who gets dumped on. Who's living next to what type of facility? There's creating lots of pollution for example in one thousand nine hundred seven toxic waste and race study completed by the United Church of Christ Commission for Racial Justice. Show that where has this way? Sicilia's the located is not based on. How much money you make or whether or not the community is a homeowner's or renter's whether or not the property values are high it was race in nineteen eighty seven study found that over a third of the residents who live within a radius of these facilities were African American and people of Color Twenty years later colleagues and I we updated the one thousand nine hundred seven study and we basically found the same thing that race was still. The most potent variable it was not income was not education not class not not Arab Israelis. Dr Bullard told me that African Americans who make fifty to sixty thousand dollars a year are more likely to live in polluted neighborhoods than whites. Who Make just ten thousand dollars a year? Pollution is just one factor in district covert death but of course there are many of black people are over concentrated in jobs like mass transit and service at the work that require interacting with the public. Less than twenty percent of African Americans have jobs that allow them to work from home and decades of segregation kept millions of people of color living in more densely populated areas. Black people are also more likely to have diabetes asthma and heart disease ailments that may corona virus especially deadly and when we look beyond Cova nineteen. We know that there are differences in how black health is managed. Black people tend to receive inferior healthcare. They have to be sicker before being referred to a specialist and even black women with college degrees are more likely to die in childbirth than white women understanding the systemic nature of these racial disparities in the economy housing healthcare demystified. The numbers were seeing with cove in nineteen. The crow virus death rate in black communities isn't about chance or about individual shortcomings is about overlapping systems. That fail black people over and over again and over and over again. What we've seen. Is that those systems. Don't change without a fight in eighteen. Eleven that fight with from the enslaved people along the Mississippi River in Louisiana in twenty twenty is from the black people who have inherited that land. Dr Bull what advice would you give for folks on the frontline in their communities who were fighting against these big corporations big facilities this is not a sprint and I tell people this is like a marathon relay you run twenty six miles and then you pass the baton to the next group the next generation to run that twenty six? It is possible to win in Saint James Spread of Corona virus has slowed the work. Sharon is doing to ward off new industry. The words you have slowed down so much. We we have conference calls now in a lot of the members. They don't want to come out because of the virus so but I'm the one that's going up. I shouldn't be too but I'm going but I put them on Azima gloves at thank. God you still can't thank God for that you know but she's not willing to walk away from the land. Her parents fought for her grandparents. Fought for and generations fought for before them how to move. This is my land and I'm not going to pack up and give them what they want. I don't think so and always say we. What here first so watch. We have to give up everything. We had to satisfy them. I don't think so for now. Sharon holds onto our vision for what Saint James Parish? Could one day return to love out the love of outdoors just being out there so I do pray and hope that sent anthem come back come back to the way not exactly we will but almost like it was tremaine? If you ever come to the waves come down and see save James. I want to show you our land when everything. Calm down It's the alternative. Made some Gumbo. Yes ma'am before we go today. We WanNa let you know about a new way to get in touch with us. If you've got feedback questions or there's a story you think we should know about. You can email us into America at NBC. You and I- Dot Com that's into America at NBC. You and I sure for Universal Dot Com. We really want to hear from you about what's happening in your community. So don't be shy. You can always find me on twitter. My handle is true. Mainly that's true mainly all one word into America is produced by Isabel Angel Alison Bailey. Aaron Don Max Jacobs Barbara Rab Clarence high. I should Turner and Pref- Yvonne Original Music by Hannah's Brown. Our Executive Producer is ellen. Franken Steve Lik Tai is executive producer of audio. I'm TR- mainly we'll be back next. Thursday hi this magic lacy is co host of the at the. We've podcast for people who love diving into the details behind the policies and ideas. That helped our lives every Tuesday and Friday. I'm joined by Darren. Lynn Jane Coast as reclined and a variety of other leading voices policy experts from around the country to dig into the weeds on important issues. Recent recovered the democratic debates waited deep conversation at sunrise. Semitism we welcome Sarah Cliff from the New York. Times back to finally figure out how we can achieve universal healthcare. If you're the kind of person that likes to dive deep or you just want to keep up with the current political landscape this show is for you subscribe to the weeds for free right now in favour podcast. App to get new episodes automatically from box and the box media podcast network.
Into the Future of Lordstown, Ohio
"We are right outside the the Lordstown plant and there's a must be an old billboard just a blank wouldn't sign plywood it looks faded and weathered and somebody had written in black spray paint on the would save the GM plant and then at some point later somebody came and wrote in white spray paint on top of it. Just the letters R I p. This is Lordstown Ohio for more than fifty years. It shared a name with a General Motors Assembly plant for the last decade. That plant was home of the Chevy Cruz. Nbc News National Reporter. Aaron Einhorn traveled from Detroit to this part of Ohio with producer. Claire Tied Lordstown Assembly. Plant was once one of the largest automobile plants within General Motors on March. Six Twenty Nineteen. The last shift of fourteen hundred workers packed up their things. And we're forced to move on today. Gm Lordstown Lordstown is closed over the years this region which is known as the Mahoning Valley has lost tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs. Starting the steel mills close in the seventies and eighties but the GM plant had been a constant in an area that have dealt with change over and over again and it's a region that that over the last fifty years really built up around General Motors. Everybody there knew somebody who worked in the plant. Multiple generations of families were were invested in that plan. And now it's gone I'm mainly in. This is into America. A podcast about politics about policy and the power. That both have in shaping the lives of the American people today. We're going into the Mahoning valley with my colleague Erin Einhorn one year after last. Chevy Cruz wrote off the line. We'll find out what the plant's closure means for the families who worked there for decades and why some people in the region are feeling hopeful about the future. I think the lion king a called the circle of life into the circle of industrial light To understand this circle of industrial life errands. Soccer people across the region who have lived through the ups and downs. And there's this one guy who is watching this story play out for years and business is closely tied to the health of Lordstown as I was getting ready to go down to the Mahoning Valley and talk to people and I said well you know where should I go. Where are the places I need to go and everybody said? Oh well you you gotta go to Ross's so yeah we're going to Ross's eatery and pub which is a local watering hall. That has has long been kind of a hang out for people who worked at the facility. We were there on Thursday afternoon around lunch and it really is one of those places that just seems to draw everybody. You know a wooden bar and kind of the back of the room you not of color and light. There's actually a lot of deer heads every one of them or we want them. And then we met earl- Ross and Earl Ross is one of those guys who just it's like. He was just meant to own a bar. I am one of the founding owners. And I'm a sole proprietor. Now my father and my sister and myself started at one thousand nine hundred seventy. What's changed since one thousand nine hundred seven? Oh what a roller coaster ride that has been. I had hair that change. There is almost ten thousand members working three Shifts General Motors. You know at seven. Am You get to third shifter's getting off they'd come over to eat at three? Pm You'd get the afternoon people or day people getting off and then at eleven pm. You shifter's getting off so three times a day. You had twelve hundred or thirteen. Fourteen hundred people driving through the community. All of these workers didn't lose their jobs overnight. The demise of the GM Lordstown plant was gradual as Chevy Cruz sales slowed GM cut one shift. Then another three thousand workers were laid off between January twenty seventeen in June two thousand eighteen president donald trump who campaigned on a pledge to bring back. All jobs held a rally in Youngstown in the summer of two thousand seventeen just twenty minutes outside of Lordstown. He told workers then they shouldn't worry. Let Me Tell You folks in Ohio under this area. Don't sell your house. Don't sell not salad. We're going to get does values up. We're going to get those jobs coming back. And Wigan a fill up those factories or rip them down a bill brand new ones. So it's going to happen but two years later. The plant shutdown. So who's to blame at the time? There were a lot of explanations batted around there was the impact of the trump administration's tariffs which increased the cost of producing vehicles. Gm pointed the car. Sales folks no longer wanted fuel-efficient starter. Cars like the Chevy Cruz they trucks and as vs and the company they wanted to be nimble to pivot to hybrid and electric vehicles and invest in self driving cars. But there were serious consequences. One study estimated that the closure could cost the region around eight billion dollars in overall economic activity that includes people like Earl Ross. Who told Erin that he depended on those? Gm workers for consistent business as he described it as just the rug being pulled out from under him and suddenly his revenues are down sixty percent and he's got to figure out a way to somehow make it work. The Punch in the gut was the going away party. Crafter going away party after going away party. You know he talked about how since the Lordstown plant closed. He's hosted at least a hundred going away parties in his bar them groups of twenty then groups of fifteen groups of forty coming here for their last drink their last celebration their last dinner before they leave town. Everything was the exact same thing. Can't believe it you know it's sad and then these families split up and these friends split up these people who grew up together riding bikes together in the Mahoning Valley. They got jobs together in the plant. They raise their children together with the wages they were getting from the plant they are from this community and then all of a sudden they're all having going away parties and they're leaving. You met a family that is still struggling with the loss of GM the money family. Tell me about your meeting with them. We met the money family who live in Niles Ohio which is not far from Lordstown. I'm Pauline Karen Claire. Nice to live in a lovely kind of suburban community on a on a street that had a lot of single family homes two car. Garages her having her. So there's Kevin Money Who works for GM his wife Holly? I work For our local city the city of Niles and Three kids Cole. Who's sixteen claire and Brooke and Jules who are thirteen year? Old Twins were identical. Yes well one of you need glasses. And the other doesn't yes tonight's house. We sat in the kitchen. Which was all decked out for Saint Patrick's Day holiday I decorated do. And what was life like for them before the plant closed. You know they describe it as this wonderful family. Life of the five of them together and Kevin. Money was the coach of his kids. Basketball team they talked about how he he loved to take. The family out for treats he just show up spontaneously. Hey kids let's go get a desert when the kids were little. I was able to be a stay at home. Mom with them he worked in. I was able to be home with them and until they went to preschool and then I started working after they were fulltime in elementary school sued. You have a sense you know ten years ago or five years ago that this was coming no no should. It felt like GM that job was going to be forever. We felt it was going to be. Yes yes we were comfortable with him going to work. A lot of people from this area were loyal to General Motors. What did they tell you about finding out about the planned closure so GM announced that it was closing the plant or on allocating Chevy Cruz from that plant in November of two thousand eighteen right then Kevin the applied for transfer. Any you know wanted to try to put himself as close to home as he could and he gets the job in Toledo two and a half three hours away and he gets the word they said right before Christmas he got the notice on December. Twenty second it was a Friday. He received it at work and that was Christmas weekend so he gets to notice it work. Does he call you know he waited to tell me that night? He just probably went into in the room late on the bed and shed some tears and then when I came home he said we need to talk in. We cried and cried My husband and I have a great relationship. He's my best friend and family. We always did everything together. We would sit and have dinner where we go out to dinner together. So just knowing that he wasn't going to be here every night. Go to bed or to have dinner together. We that was traumatizing. And then we held it from the kids until the day after Christmas and remember you described it. That Dad has to leave. Dad has to move away. We're going to try everything that we can to keep life as normal as possible for everybody. Tell your memory of that guy off ahead of slate feeling. Something was going on mainly because my dad's been down in his office at a lot prior to that date in the one day. I'm crying in there. And he ended up talking to me and he said he had put in for a transfer. I had to know why I had no clue or reasoning behind it but I knew something was happening. It was like somebody had honestly died. It the feeling felt like there was a death in the family. And they're actually a lot luckier than most because he's able to come home every weekend and be with his family but they had had this life that they loved. You know this this tight knit family that that did everything together when your husband is added to transfer I mean was there any consideration of quitting GM or. That wasn't something we we talked about all possibilities but for him to leave. Gm with twenty five years in and to walk away from a pension. Hopefully it's going to be there in five years and then hopefully start over. Do something else. But to be able to have that pension that he's worked so hard for since he was nineteen twenty years old in full retirement benefit in full retirement benefits You need to do five more years. Yes and then he can come home but the problem in this family is that you know the girls are thirteen. Five years is when they graduate. My school. Two of them were graduating high school. The senior league retire so so for the rest of their childhood. Their Dad's not going to be around. That's not what we and planned. You know he worked locally. We live locally. I work locally. They go to our school and we were supposed to always the five of us were always supposed to be here and because of the plant closing had to move away clearly. This change has been hard. Family emotionally But how are they doing financially? It's caused financial burden as well. They've got to households right so they've got their family household that they had all along. Niles and now Kevin is living in an apartment in Toledo and so they've got. They're paying his rent. Gas Tolls are not cheap the apartment utilities food around twelve hundred. Give or take so you have twelve hundred dollars less every month every month. Yes what's that? Come out of our combined wages. I mean it you know it. We don't have cable anymore. We don't have a home phone anymore. We watch our gas. You know we don't go cruising around. We don't go shopping trips to the mall or just for special things. Jeez to be able to buy more things absolutely. Have you guys felt the pinch? Definitely you know. They've they've had a struggle so clearly. The adults in this situation are doing what does do surviving family to stay afloat. But how is their dad's APPs effected the kids? I think the hardest part was just Kevin not being there all of our life. We saw data every day. Now you see him once a week. How life has changed actually the way. I initially found out about this family as I was put in touch with them. By a local elected official who had gotten a copy of an essay that one of the twins jewels had written. We will never forget how we feel as he pulled out of the out of our driveway. He knew he was going to. You knew he was making the sacrifice for us but he didn't make saying goodbye easier. Daily Life Without. My Dad is very difficult frustrate frustrating. There are days when I forget us not home and he's not going to be home. I get so excited for him to come home because we miss him. Sometimes I have breakdowns when I'm thinking about him even even though I tried to say strong sometimes just can't help it. Believe it or not only seeing seeing him two days we can sometimes make it worse because I know because it makes me realize how much I miss him. We'll be right back with home security. There's two ways you can go about protecting your home. There's the traditional way where you wait weeks for a technician to do an expensive messy installation or there's the other way simplisafe simply safe has everything you need in a home security system. It's award winning protection. In fact it's a two time winner of c net editor's Choice Award and it wins the award for my personal favorite system in case anyone was wondering simply safe. Blanket your whole home in safety. Outdoor cameras doorbells. Alert you to anyone approaching your home. Entry motion and glass break. Sensors Guard inside. Setup takes thirty minutes to an hour tops. Anyone can do it. 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And so they ended up doing these things that were dangerous. They were lulled into a full sense of security that they could get away with pushing this reactor would of take any punishment and then one day you know turn rented bid them this week. I'm wise is happening. Search wise is happening. Wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. General Motors says close to fourteen hundred people took transfers from Lordstown to other GM plants across the Midwest and south in places like Michigan Tennessee or Kentucky of that group many left their families behind creating split households. Like the money's but there's another side of the story here in Lordstown one that has some residents excited their promises of new jobs coming to the Mahoning Valley. I asked Erin about the folks around here who see change as a good thing. I mean I think Dan Kraus is is an example of that and you are how old sixty two are. You sure no okay. He's a commercial real estate broker. You know he's a guy who really sees the possibility in this region. He loaded us up in his this. This'll piece have one thousand nine hundred ninety nine Chevy Tahoe. You guys wanted to see changes when you look at this place. This was an absolute disaster in two thousand ten. It was ten percent occupied. Fifteen percent occupied. Today it's ninety five percent occupied. It's an old industrial park. He just kind of bullish on where things could go. He talked about how this is a region in transition. That's clear we heard that from lot of people the plant is gone. There's nothing you can do about that but there's some positive things happening. He drove us by Lordstown motors which is a small electric vehicle. Startup that bought the Lord Assembly plant from GM last year. Vert twenty million dollars a year ago if you were driving on this road. That's the picture you would see. At the end. There used to be a a large mural their advertising the Chevy Cruz that you can see from the Ohio Turnpike and. He was really excited to show us that. Now it says ride with Lordstown. Which is the banner for the New Lordstown Motors? Electric Vehicle Company and Lordstown. Motors has a grand vision for building electric vehicles in that plant. They say they hope to be producing as many electric vehicles someday soon as GM was producing several years ago when when the plant was at full capacity. There's also a new battery Cell Plant. So this is the plant a joint venture between GM and LG CAM right now. That's the battery plant right there and you know there's this talk about could this region transform and become the voltage valley if we catered Lordstown Motors. The battery plant that should bring us the ancillary businesses. That go with it. Which and there's other things too. So there's a a distribution center for the T. J. X. homegoods company which is TJ maxx marshalls and some other companies. One Point one point two million square feet under roof this massive massive distribution center that they'd been building. This is a place where it comes in from overseas or wherever it comes in it gets brought to a place like this it gets broken down and sent out to the stores and that'll create some jobs and you know he's hopeful so. Give us the backstory here. Why are new businesses moving into the area? Now when the ashes of the plant are still kind of warm. So there's a lot of companies that are looking to expand looking to build new businesses and Mahoning Valley. Has you know strategically located. It's right off two major interstates. I eighty and I seventy six. So the Ohio Turnpike the Pennsylvania Turnpike you know there's railways. There's central power in the local communities is really welcoming of these businesses. Tax Breaks are available things like that. Are these good jobs. Are they comparable to what? Gm was paying jobs. But I don't think they're going to be anything close to comparable to what GM was paying. You gotTA keep in mind that union jobs with a company like General Motors. Is this sort of like middle class. Ideal that and in some ways built this country. But you don't see it as often now as you used to. You know they were these they were these great jobs they pay you know thirty dollars an hour. You know the new jobs the leadership. Some of these new companies aren't putting out a wage scale. They're saying oh the wages are going to be competitive So at Lordstown motors which is the electrical vehicle startup. He said the wages are going to be competitive for the auto industry. With the implication being the wages will be similar to General Motors. Job The battery Cell Plant. Which is a joint venture between GM and LG? And they're saying that those wages will be comparable to other battery cell producers so those wages are going to be you know somewhat lower so not thirty dollars an hour maybe sixteen or seventeen or eighteen dollars an hour or less you know the TJ x facility the distribution center it will pay above minimum wage But nobody's expecting to make ninety thousand dollars working in that facility. All these things happening in the valley. Does Dan connect any of this? Change back to president trump. He does. He's a some of it you know he's a he's a conservative. He's a libertarian. You know he believes the new developments. He believes in the free market You know he's he's a supporter of the president and says the president's policies are are encouraging some of this development he claimed to be and it's been a disruptor and we need a lot of crap disrupted. How does Dan feel about all this change? He was really just convinced that this isn't the end. Being what transition like. This have gone on forever. Think about it. We went from horses and buggies two cars. We went from coal to natural gas inside houses. All of these things changed the way people live. And and it's it it it it. There's natural progressions in evolutions. So the changes that are coming. You think we'll be alternately beneficial. I think that the changes that are coming. We have to make them beneficial if you take that Microcosm General Motors okay. We're in that transition. It's an unfortunate blip but I believe that by if you came here in fourteen months they'll be as many people working at Lordstown Motors. Lg Cam as there wasn't the GM plant and so that's the natural transition. I mean I think the lion king called it the circle of life into circle of industrial life. It sounds like there's a lot of promise but does Earl Ross. Ross eatery and pub. Does he see it that way? What's really interesting about Ross's eatery and pub is that everything that's happening in the community. Kinda filters it's way and I'm seeing just a new wave of people tech people and people popping up that you know other wiser from all over to all over country. He says his businesses picked up a bit. So I'm I'm just now finally getting back into the green so that's good with the addition of Lordstown motors and you know just getting through a long cold winter so where he. Revenues were down sixty percent a year ago. He says they took back up. Maybe he's recovered about twenty percent of that so he's not back where he was but he's seeing things moving in the right direction on Tuesday. Ohio will vote. Lordstown is in Trumbull. County a swing county in a swing state. They voted for Barack Obama in two thousand twelve then. Donald Trump in two thousand sixteen but voters also re-elected House. Democrat Tim O'Brien in Twenty. Sixteen in two thousand eighteen and went for Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown that same year. Dan Kraus said he sometimes votes for Democrats but this November he plans to support the president or role. Said he didn't WanNa talk politics. Aaron told me that's pretty common around this part of the state win. We were talking to people about politics. Everybody was really cautious. One of the things that really struck me. We were in this local diner. Talking to people. We'd go up to a table and there'd be four people at the table and two were ardent trump supporters and the other two were Democrats and I was really struck by it. Because you know we talk so much about how divided this country is and somehow they're able to make it work and I would. Maybe there's a lesson in there for the rest of us think he's GonNa Save the world. The money's the family that's divided. The Dad took a transfer from one plant to another holly money. Says THEY WON'T BE SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT? He is the president of the United States. So you can't you have to respect them that way but we are just. He could have done a lot more for the middle class rather than the upper class. He came here. Said don't sell your house. General Motors is going to be here. Maybe in cars and then a few months later it was closing. People are losing their jobs. Families had to move so any promises that he's made for our area. He did not keep last week they still had a decided which Democratic candidate they would vote for this Tuesday. I asked Erin whether any of this change in Lordstown feels like a good thing for their family. I mean there's some hope on the horizon potentially for the community and you know they're they're watching that but it doesn't really apply to them because there might be new jobs but Kevin Money you know he. He's looking toward retiring. Were with full benefits from GM. And there's only one way to retire with full benefits from GM and that's worth five more years at GM. So from their perspective is a little bit irrelevant. You know what's going on because their fate has already been determined. You know his job is gone and the only way he can continue to have. That job is to commute to Toledo. I missed my dad and most and most and I'm getting ready to go down for the night. All the fear unsoundness wash over me like a wave. I'll get think about is how US alone did in a different city alone. Thou- As to protect him and Mary here without him to protect us with all my Dulcie. My father everyday. If you'll see a piece of our lives of our piece of our lives are missing. Him knows when the peace will come back. Come back in place maybe. Gm will reopen with a new vehicle. Make maybe congressman. Tim Ryan will become president and get something back here for us. Many we will eventually have to move up. Some others to because of the stress of broken families need it to be avoided. There is no answer yet. All I can say the money families Sean. We live in hope that we all live at strong family. The economy changes. And we don't always talk about kind of how that trickles down and affects the kids. But you know. Here's this one family with this one story about you. Know how a decision made by a corporation based on business projections kind of trickles down and affects the way. A little girl is going to play basketball when she goes out for her team on the first day that her dad's not there rooting for her in the stands every nine worn. Nash reporter for NBC. News into America is produced by Isabel Angel. Alison Bailey Aaron Dot. Max Jacobs Bar. Rab Claire Tie. I should turn her an pretty Var thon music by Hanns Brown. Our Executive Producer is ellen. Franken Steve Lik Tai is executive producer of audio. I'm mainly we'll be back next Thursday. This imagine classiest co host of and the weeds is a podcast for people who love diving into the details behind the policies and ideas. That helped our lives. Every Tuesday and Friday I'm joined by Darren Lynching Coast and Ezra Klein and a variety of other leading voices policy experts from around the country to dig into the weeds on important issues. Recent we've covered the democratic debates. We had a deep conversation about the sudden rise in Semitism. We welcome Sarah Cliff from the New York. Times back to finally figure out how we can achieve universal healthcare. If you're the kind of person that likes dive deep or you just want to keep up with the current political landscape this show is for you. Subscribe to the weeds or free right now. Favorite PODCAST APP to get new episodes on medically from box and the box media podcast network.