20 Episode results for "Frank Williams"

Frank Abagnale Pt. 1: Catch Me If You Can

Con Artists

46:14 min | 9 months ago

Frank Abagnale Pt. 1: Catch Me If You Can

"In one thousand nine hundred sixty four a young pan am co-pilot named Frank Williams entered Laguardia Airport with an air of confidence. He noted warmly to the other pilots and stewardesses as he passed and strolled through security with a brief flash of his security badge. He was a well known figure. In the terminal greeted warmly. By all the flight personnel he encountered Williams approached the desk of Eastern Airlines and requested a flight to Miami. This wasn't unusual. It was a common courtesy for airlines to offer free tickets to all pilots regardless of what company they worked for after a quick look at his Pan. Am ID card and his certified pilot's license. He was quickly. I should aboard the next available flight. Frank settled into the jump seat located next to the cockpit where the rest of the crew was seated. He engaged in friendly onto the stewardesses and the pilots aboard while the final checks were prepared. Then the captain picked up his head piece and radio the Federal Aviation Administration for FAA tower. Franks heart froze as he overheard. The pilot explained that they had a Pan Am pilots on board with them. The captain listened for a moment then nodded at Frank. They had the all clear. Frank that out a deep breath as the plane race down the runway and lifted off if the FAA tower had requested more information about the unexpected guest on a flight. They might have discovered that the twenty six year old Frank Williams didn't exist. The man sitting on their plane was frank. William abergnail junior a sixteen year old runaway with nothing more than a fake. Id Card and a stolen pilot's uniform. The newest flyer wasn't just a criminal. He was one of America's most notorious con artists. Welcome to con artists. Apar- cast original. I'm Alabama and every week. We peel back. The layers of history's greatest deceptions and tell the stories of the hustlers swindlers and fraudsters. That orchestrated them. I'll dive into their psychology breakdown. That tricks and explain why anyone might fool for a con- you can find episodes of Catis. Send all other podcast. Originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to PODCASTS TO STREAM. Kona Tikva free on spotify. Just open the APP and type con artists in the search bar at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how it doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at past and twitter at Parkas network. And if you enjoyed today's episode the best way to help is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening. It really does help us. This is our first episode on Frank. Abergnail a scamming wounded kin. Who became one of America's most ingenious con artists during his five year career? This week will learn about francs early. Start in crime from high school delinquent to skilled forger. We'll also see how he became a Master. Impostor crofting new identities for himself as a pilot lawyer and even Dr Next Week. We'll hear how. Frank evaded capture and went on the run where he continued pulling small cons and fraud until his eventual arrest. In only five years. Frank Abergnail junior managed to cause a major stir in the criminal world after running away from home. It's sixteen francs survived on forged checks until he created a new identity for himself. As a Pan Am pilot. He stayed one step ahead of the authorities for two years flying over two hundred fifty thousand miles and scamming hotels and airlines all over the country out of thousands of dollars after a close call with the FBI. Frank evaded capture using a slew of new identities before returning to his roots in check forgery by the time he was first arrested in nineteen. Sixty-nine he had become a master. Con Artist but frank was given a second chance when he was recruited to work for the FBI there. He served a security consultant long after his sentence was completed to make up for all the trouble he caused Frank Abergnail. Junior wasn't a typical teenage runaway. He actually grew up in a comfortable middle class home in Westchester New York in the nineteen fifties. His Father Frank Abergnail senior ran a successful stationery store in midtown Manhattan. While his mother took care of the family and the home in the suburbs frank was close to both of his parents but he had a special bond with his dad however while things seemed happy from the outside looking in the illusion of the happy. Abigail family with shouted. When Frank was only twelve his parents separated in one thousand nine hundred sixty leaving. Their children caught in the middle devastated by the rift in his marriage. Frank senior begged his son to help him convince his mother to come back to the family. But despite Frank Juniors best efforts his parents officially divorced two years later when he was fourteen in the aftermath of his parents separation. Frank went to live with his father while the rest of his siblings stayed with his mother. This fracture and his family had a profound effect on Frank. According to a study conducted by the RAI Universitites in Amsterdam children with divorced parents are more likely to commit nonviolent crimes than those whose parents stayed together. There are a number of reasons why this may be including a sudden lack of parental oversight a newly fraud family structure and in some cases because the child is attempting to unite that parents with a common goal worrying about their behavior. It's unclear which of these may be applicable to Frank Abergnail but being caught in the middle of his mother and father's divorce was undoubtedly a source of emotional stress adolescent. Frank and this only marks the beginning of the upheaval. He experience life with Frank. Senior was drastically different from the family. Life he'd known before Franken always idolized his father but now away from that quiet life in the suburbs. Frank was witnessing an entirely new side of his dad in the city. Frank's father spent most of his time outside of the office in bars drinking with various business partners throughout Manhattan under his father's frank junior saw a whole different view on the world now instead of living a sheltered suburban life frank was interacting with all kinds of colorful characters. He realized that life wasn't as black and white says he previously been told rules could be bent or even broken and everything was available to him so long as he wanted it. Enough inspired by this new amoral perspective before long. Frank began shoplifting and playing hooky from school. As Frank continued acting out he fell in with a bad crowd from school. The first his new friends engaged in mostly harmless behavior stealing pack of Gum. Cutting Jim Klaus but as they continued getting away with small crimes they grew more reckless until one day. The group was caught stealing a car. Frank was just fourteen. Frank's father was able to intervene and expunge the rest from his permanent record. The close core was enough to put frank back on the straight and narrow at least for a while. The young teen got a part time job to stay busy off to school and his father bought him an old Ford so he could commute easily but when he turned fifteen francs interest in women flourished unfortunately his modest income couldn't support an active dating life so he started looking for other ways to make some quick cash to help loosen his tight budget. Frank begged his father for a gas card that would essentially act as a credit card for gas station purchases. He couldn't apply for one under his own name because at fifteen he was underage. Frank senior agreed on the condition. That frank junior would be responsible for the bill in full every month. Frank agreed delighted for the first few weeks. He used it faithfully and he was able to use the money he would have otherwise spent on gas on dates but it wasn't long before he saw a gleaming opportunity to make a little money on the side. The card could be used not only to purchase gas but to buy other supplies sold at gas stations to such as Taya's windshield wipers or even small accessories so in one thousand nine hundred sixty four. Frank came up with a clever little racket. He convinced the cashiers at the gas station to charge his father's gas card for a purchase. Then frank sold the item back to the cashiers at a discounted rate for cash his CO conspirators within able to pocket the difference in exchange for looking the other way. It was a win win for the first time in his life. Frank had money to throw around. He was able to go on elaborate. Dais with as many women as he chose buying expensive clothes. Some flowers for the occasion. He also treated himself whenever he felt like it. The racket continued for three months until the bill finally arrived through the mail. It came to a shocking total of three thousand four hundred dollars nearly thirty thousand dollars in today's currency despite his earlier insistence that frank junior cover all of his charges frank senior treated the incident lightheartedly and when Frank Junior explained his reason for racking up such a huge sum. His father paid off the bill in full clearing his name once again but when Frank's mother found out about the incident. She was extremely upset by what she considered to be negligence on the part of Frank's father. She enrolled Franken a private school for troubled boys in port. Chester New York while she and his father fort over his custody. The school was highly disciplined and rigorous in his autobiography. Catch me if you can. Frank described the atmosphere as prison-like and oppressive. It was a far cry from the life. He led with his father and it took a heavy toll on his emotional state. But things at home weren't any easier after his latest transgression. Frank's mother was convinced that she should have custody of frank but his father wasn't backing down without a fight and the situation was only growing more fraud around the same time. Frank Senior was forced to close down his stationery store by the time. Frank Junior returned home for the summer. His father was in serious financial trouble. He could no longer afford the same lavish lifestyle. He once led to make ends meet. Frank Senior took a job working at the post office which depressed his son immensely between his father's downfall and his parents bitter war over his custody. Frank Junior found his new circumstances at home to be unbearable and in June of nineteen sixty four. When he was just sixteen years old he dropped out of school and ran away to New York City. He had no job no plan. And no prospects justice savings account with two hundred dollars stocked away about seventeen hundred dollars today. But despite the odds against him frank was about to find a way to bend the rules in his favor coming up. Frank stumbles on the inspiration for his first major corn in the heart of New York City. Hi It's Alistair. Do you love a good story about a real bad guy? I'm talking about the worst of the worst. If so I have the perfect Parker show for you. It's called dictators and you can hear new episodes every Tuesday dictators. Lets you delve into the minds of some of the world's most feared leaders here. Our hosts Caitlyn Richard. To tell you more thank you so much. They are natural born leaders with a never ending thirst for power through force and deceit they rise through the ranks towards radicalism eliminating anyone who stands in their way and the only thing more inevitable than their rise. Is there ruin. Discover the true stories of power greed deceit in the podcast original series dictators. Every Tuesday dictators examines the reign of a real life tyrant exploring the unique conditions that allowed them to seize control. Each dictator is analyzed in two part episodes with the first giving insight into the rise to power and the second chronicling. The impact of their downfall. Hear more about the men who claimed to love their country but were intricately responsible for killing millions of their own people. Men such as Prime Minister Benito Mussolini Supreme Leader Kim Jong Hoon and even Julius Caesar himself discover the governments that fell the lives that were destroyed and evil at its highest level. Follow dictators free on spotify over. Ever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story in the summer of nineteen sixty four sixteen year old frank abergnail ran away from home to New York City with little money and no plan and while he was able to find a place to stay he only had enough money to sustain him for a few weeks. His only goal was to be a success like his father had been just a couple of years. Prior but frank status is a high school dropout. In addition to his young age made this tool order he was able to find a minimum wage job that paid just a dollar fifty an hour or sixty dollars a week but the meager amount was barely enough to cover his rent. Even at New York's lowest prices. Frank realized that if he didn't want to return to his parents he needed to find a solution and quick so believing that his young age was holding him back. He decided to commit his first real act of fraud. He adjusted his driver's license with a fine tip pen changing his Europe. Birth from one thousand nine hundred forty eight to nineteen thirty eight. He hoped that a twenty six year old might have an easier time finding work than a sixteen year old. Luckily his hair was turning prematurely. Grey making him look older than he really was so the lie was easy to believe but even adding a full decade to his age only bumped his hourly wage up to to seventy five to cover the difference. He cashed checks from his savings account but while he did this he realized that the process had a loophole. He could use a check as real money. Despite the fact that it took the bank several days to verify that his account had enough funds for the purchase in financial terms. The process was cold. Check floating essentially it allowed him to write checks for money he didn't have and get away with it for a period of time. Frank knew that his account was overdrawn but his checks kept clearing instead of panicking over the sorry state of his finances. He felt as if burden had lifted from his chest. Suddenly he was sixteen years old with access to all the money he could ever want with this new source of income. He could lead a far more comfortable life than with his minimum wage job so he decided to quit and live off the bad checks. He kept writing taking advantage of the opportunity to live the lavish lifestyle. He'd so desperately wanted he went to fancy restaurants and drank. The most expensive liquor two months went by with no repercussions. But Frank knew that it wouldn't be long until the hammer came crashing down. As long as he avoided the people he wrote bad checks to. He figured he'd remained more or less safe but he knew his bank would have an easier time tracking him down eventually. They close his account moreover he was still a runaway in the eyes of the law with his parents just a city away in Westchester. It was only a matter of time before they would find him and for Frank. Going home wasn't an option. He had to get out of New York. It was right around this time. He passed the Commodore Hotel a luxurious building in midtown Manhattan as he walked by a flight crew from Eastern Airlines emerged from its Gold Trim. Doors laughing as the doorman ushered the group into a waiting. Cab in the crisp uniforms. They were treated with the difference. That immediately made frank envious. He watched the ease with which they were able to cash their checks. At the concierge desk a privilege he learned almost exclusively reserved for flight crew. That's when he came up with an idea that would both allow him to skip town and draw on a new source of income. What if he became an airline pilot? It was a prestigious job that will give him easy access to transportation as well as a uniform that commanded respect wherever he went and he didn't need to go through the flight academy all he needed to do was look the part. He was already pretending to be ten years older than he really was. The rest was just window-dressing. Frank knew that he had to get all the details right starting with the uniform. He called the Pan Am switchboard posing as a pilot named Robert Black nervous. He explained that he had lost his uniform and ask the operator where he could get a replacement as it turned out. Frank had no reason to feel and see. The operates directed him to a uniform specialist in New York without a second thought and wished him a pleasant flight. Frank had a phony check prepared just for the occasion but all the clerk asked for was his employees account on the spot. Frank set the first five numbers that came to mind and the clerk wrote them down to bill. Pan Am later by the time. He realized that the account was fake. Frank was long gone uniform in hand. The next step was getting an identification badge as well as a pilot's license. Frank didn't know what a real pilots ID card looked like but that was a minor hurdled. He found the address of business specializing in identification cards and securities and scheduled an appointment. He dressed in his finest suit for the interview. Posing as a representative from a small international airline was expanding into the United States. He explained that he needed professional. Identification Cards made for all of his employees. He then ask for a sample. Id Card to be drawn up. Specifically the ones issued by Pan Am using himself as the subject frank gave them the pseudonym Frank Williams for the ID posing as a co-pilot the company didn't Pattana at his request and happily obliged but the ID card. That frank walked out with was missing one crucial detail. The Pan Am logo as frank walked through the streets of New York trying to figure out how to replicate the famous emblem. He happened to pass a toy shop inside. The store window were model airplanes from all the most famous airlines at the time including pan. Am Frank Board the plane set and use the sticker decal incite to complete his new. Id Card the resulting document was incredibly realistic. He followed a similar process to get an authentic. Faa License certifying him as a trained United States pilot less than a month after he'd settled on this new venture. Frank looked like a professional pilot but he still knew nothing about the business the jargon or even how the equipment itself operated so relying once again on the Handy Pan Am switchboard frank posed as a high-school reporter writing an article on the airline business using this trick he was able to talk to a captain. The pilot was happy to answer all of the earnest young reporters questions even some of the more unorthodox ones including how much pilots made how prospective candidates climbed the ladder and whether it was true that pilots could fly for free. The captain explained the process of deadheading. It was a courtesy the airlines off at flight crews from their competitors to ensure that planes from all airlines had the right staff in the right cities at the right time. It was exactly the information. Frank could use to get out of town quickly armed with his newfound knowledge of the airline industry as well as his freshly tailored uniform. Frank decided it was time for a test run. Sixteen year old. Frank entered Laguardia Airport in the fall of nineteen sixty four emboldened by the confidence that his new codes granted him. He showed his. Id to the security desk then tried to blend in with the crowds of people that day. His only goal was to see if he could pull off the disguise as he sat down for a bite to eat. Frank was joined by a t W A co-pilot the man looked at him and quickly and asked what a Pan Am. Pilot was doing at Laguardia. Apparently despite all the research he done. Frank had forgotten one of the most basic details. What airports Pan Am pilots? Flew out of Frank gulped and quickly made up an answer explaining that he had to dead a last minute flight from Frisco and was on route to his final destination out of JFK the TWA pilot gave him a weird look then asked him what equipment he was on. Frank froze. He had no clue what the man meant but based on his demeanor it a common question that any pilots should have been able to answer frank at a loss explained that he was on General Electric. It was the wrong answer he waited breathlessly as the TWA pilot left without another word fearing that. The GIG was up. Frank rush down to the airport before he could be dragged out by security after this close call. Frank decided that he needed to spend more time practicing before he boarded his first plane. He started hanging out in his uniform at Laguardia deliberately avoiding JFK so as to avoid bumping into real pan pilots who would see through his facade. Frank chatted with the other flight crew for several weeks. He made sure to write down every tidbit. He learned in a small notebook that he carried everywhere and slowly but surely he incorporates it that Lingo into his speech and acclimated himself with that daily routine once. He felt confident in his abilities. Frank packed up. All his belongings moved out of his apartment and swallowed his nerves. Finally he was going to dead head his first flight. He decided to go to Miami once he landed. Franco's offered every courtesy that a real Pan Am pilot would have received including a free taxi to the Local Hotel. Used by all airlines at the hotel he was able to launch his rune fees and all his meals to Pan. Am All he needed to provide? Return was his employees account number the same number that his uniform was supposedly charged too but the benefit that frank was most excited about was the ability to cash checks at any airport or hotel desk in the nineteen sixties. Most checks had to be deposited at the same bank that manages your account but because of how often pilots traveled. They were offered the courtesy of being able process payments in more convenient locations. Once again frank was able to float. He received the money from his fate. Check immediately but by the time the hotel or airport realized it had bounced. He had already hopped on a flight to another city. The system was highly efficient as long as frank avoided hitting the same cities or hotels twice. He was able to avoid any repercussions he deliberately. Only cashed out relatively small amounts no more than one hundred dollars each time or about eight hundred sixty dollars today. If he was reported to the police lower amounts would remain relatively low on their list of priorities to investigate otherwise they may have been inclined to pursue him more aggressively over the next two years. Frank flew constantly making a temporary home whenever he landed. He always posed as an off duty pilot about to catch a flight but never attempted to actually learn how to fly. In some cases the captain's he flew with offered him a seat in the cockpit. But Frank was always careful to switch on the autopilot. At first frank worried about being caught but as months passed without a single close cool. He started growing more confident before long he started enjoying the lifestyle he'd always being charismatic. And as a result he made fast friends with his fellow pilots but he paid closer attention to the stewardesses and every once in awhile usually. When he was running low on checks he would stay with one of the generous flight attendants for a few weeks time. Parts of Frank Success can be attributed it was psychological phenomenon known as the status enhancement theory. This idea states that people who are overly confident in their abilities actually go on to achieve higher status because their self assuredness affects people's perceptions of them in other words. Fake it until you make. It is actually legitimate advice. This phenomenon is especially successful when people can't accurately perceive whether or not your confidence is justified in France case. He acted as a confident co-pilot even when he wasn't asked to sit in the cockpit and so the colleagues he interacted with had no reason to doubt his flying abilities all the authenticity of his cover story but even though he managed to fool his fellow flight crew francs movements through the sky didn't go entirely unnoticed over. The first couple months of his CON Hannam had received a string of complaints about pilots cashing bad checks as a patent began to emerge pan and realized that the unknown pilots was committing consistent small-time fraud they informed the FBI but they didn't know any details about the man defrauding them. He traveled so often that they couldn't find a home address any accomplices or even relatives. That might know his whereabouts. They didn't even know the name of the man they were looking for the warrant for his arrest listed him as a John Doe but after two years they had a solid lead namely the pseudonym that kept popping up on many phony checks Frank Williams the eighteen year old conman couldn't outrun the authorities forever finally in nineteen sixty seven. The police were able to track Frank Williams down a flight from New Orleans to Miami listed. Him As dead heading in the jump seat. Frank was taken off the plane as soon as the jet landed and brought in for questioning by the local police frank state calm and acted outraged when the police brought him into the interrogation room he provided all the necessary identification as well as his license all the while carefully maintaining the facade of a bewildered slightly annoyed professional then just win frank could see the light at the end of the tunnel a couple of FBI agents entered the room and took over. The this turn was enough to throw frank. He had figured that people from Pan Am would catch on eventually but he had no idea that the FBI was already on his tail. Luckily for him. The Fed seemed unsure of the original case. A file had been opened by the bureau. But these agents didn't seem to be aware as to the reasons why in fact they had no reason to believe. Frank was anything but an ordinary pilot his. Id and license seemed real enough to them and the impression was further helped by Frank's own annoyance by miraculous stroke of luck. The police had pulled frank on a weekend. If it had been a week day they could have easily checked frank. Williams in the Pan Am company records but the office was closed now and unfortunately they couldn't hold him over the weekend all they could do was make a judgment Cole. Frank walked out to the police station with shaky hands as soon as he could. He changed out of his pilot's uniform and bought a real ticket to Atlanta under the alias. Tom Lombardi he wasn't sticking around in Miami to see if the FBI decided to follow up on Monday. Thankfully Frank could save. Most of the cash. He'd collected over the years after his narrow escape he could lay low in Atlanta. Frank looked for housing and on a whim. He listed doctor as his profession on a rental application. He decided to put his pilot days behind him. But within a few short weeks that seemingly innocuous decision would come back to bite him coming up next is roped into fabricating another profession this time with life or death consequences now back to the story in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. Eighteen year old frank. Abergnail was laying low in Atlanta Georgia. Off to spending two years posing a Pan Am pilot but a recent brush with the FBI halted his flying career in his tracks. It was the first time he'd seen the consequences of his actions up close and the experience was enough to rattle him in Atlanta. Frank found an apartment complex with the vacancy and moved in on the same day paying six month's rent in cash on his application he listed himself as a pediatrician on Sabbatical under the name. Frank W Williams. He hoped would help him avoid any or questions about his disposable income and lack of any clear job. The complex was full of young professional people and within a few weeks. Frank was able to relax for the first time a long time. He felt like he had a home. Then a knock came on the door. Frank look through the peephole to find an unassuming old man standing on the other side. When frank opened the door he introduced himself as Dr Willis? Granger Dr Grainger explained that he was also a pediatrician. Who just moved in downstairs? Frank could barely get it a shock. Hello before Grainger started grilling him with questions. He asked about Frank's practice and what research he was doing. While on Sabbatical he also invited him to visit the hospital where he worked. Not far from the complex. Frank excused himself as soon as he could and immediately panicked believing that his cover was blown pretending to be a doctor around. Civilians was one thing but he could never maintain the facade around. An actual pediatrician but before he could pack everything up and leave in the middle of the night he paused he'd grown to like it in. Atlanta and the thought of going on the run again was unappealing he'd made himself into a pilot. How hard could it be for him to become a doctor? Psychologists refer to this outlook as a challenge mindset otherwise known as gain orientation. This is when someone looks at a stressful situation and sees an opportunity to prove themselves believing that they have the necessary skills to conquer said challenge the challenge mindset is often seen in successful businessman athletes other prominent members of society and Con Artists. It can lead to reckless risky behavior. This mindset governed francs life. Whenever he saw an obstacle in his path he always found a way around it and so frank decided on a new plan. He would learn everything he needed to know. In order to pass as a pediatrician. He spent days in the library reading medical journals and standard text books then in late one thousand nine hundred sixty seven just a few weeks after their first introduction. Frank finally took Dr Grainger up on his offer to visit the hospital. Eighteen year old made sure to stay away from any medical procedures focusing solely on charming the staff but during the visit he established a report with Dr Grainger and some of the other hospital personnel including a young nurse who he started dating before long frank became a regular visitor. Posing as the pediatrician on Sabbatical. He took advantage of his free reign of the hospital by visiting the library and continuing his medical studies before long. He saw an opportunity to put his knowledge to the test. When a senior resident went on leave to deal with family emergency. The hospital director called Frank into his office. At first he was terrified. He believed that the director had somehow found out about his cover instead. He asked to step in to supervise the interns. Frank is blindsided but the director should frank that he wouldn't have to perform actual medicine just oversee the doctors as they did. Frank wasn't sure this was a challenge. He could pull off but when it came down to it. It was the hefty consultant's fee the persuaded him one hundred twenty five dollars a day. Which would be worth over nine hundred and fifty dollars in twenty twenty for the second time in two years? Frank found himself in a highly skilled profession with nothing more than a little studying and a lot of self confidence and for the first few months he was able to maintain his cover by letting the interns take charge of any new medical cases that rolled in. They didn't mind in. There is the dock was giving them a chance to prove themselves but frank soured on the position for one thing. The CON hated blood every time he was called to the emergency room. He did whatever he could to dawdle until another doctor had time to get there and take hold of the situation but more seriously frank realized that his impersonation could actually put people at risk on one especially close call. A nurse called Frank. Frantic seeking assistance for a blue baby thinking she was joking. He asked if there was also a green baby but the nurse didn't even register the off comment. She went looking for another doctor instead. Who could save the infant's life shortly off to the incident? The hospital found a permanent replacement to take over the position and coincidentally frank's lease on. The apartment was up. He decided it was time to move on before he was brought into anymore. Emergency rooms and had to encounter any more blood so in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven the nineteen year old. Frank moved to Louisiana to stay with Diane. A stewardess. He briefly dated for posing as Pan. Am pilot. Diane knew him as Robert F Conrad at Dashing co-pilot who found his way into aerospace after finishing his law degree at Harvard. It was a white light to impress her at the time. But unfortunately for Frank. Diane had a long memory. A few weeks after frank moved in. She introduced him to the assistant. State District Attorney Jason Wilcox Willcocks immediately. Begged Frank to apply for a position in their offices. Talented lawyers were hard to come by and they were desperate for good people know too eager to jump into yet another high intensity profession. Frank explained that he'd never even taken the bar exam. He wasn't qualified to practice law but Wilcox continued to press him explaining that frank could take Louisiana Ball with just a couple of weeks. Studying frank tried to say no but once again he was interested to see if he could rise to the challenge. He decided to sit for the bar after all. There was no harm in trying. He also realized that each has came back attached with the results allowing him to see which questions he'd got an incorrect and why and after two failed attempts he finally passed the Louisiana Bar exam on his third try. Frank took Wilcox up on his offer and started working as a desk assistant in the. Da's office in late nineteen sixty seven. He wasn't asked to practice any law instead. He filed motions and conducted case research for once in his life. It seemed like an almost honest Gig even if his means of procuring. It's weren't exactly ethical. But more importantly frank enjoyed the prestige that came with working for the district attorney but after about nine months. A JEALOUS CO worker realized that some of Frank's stories about Harvard law went adding up and asks Wilcox to run a background. Check on Mr Robert Conrad before he could be exposed. Frank skipped town again heading further west. He wasn't sure what his next move would be. But he vowed to make his living honestly after a stint as a teacher in Utah. Frank eventually ended up in Eureka. California a small town bursting with potential but with no immediate opportunity for a man without a real resume as frank savings dwindled. He slowly found himself falling back into old habits and before long he was running new creative cons that would put him at the top of the FBI's most wanted list. Thanks for listening to CON. Artists will be back next week with part two of Frank Abergnail story. We'll follow the infamous con man as he becomes an expert in forging checks all over the world. We'll also learn how the FBI's dog hunt for. Frank ended with an unlikely partnership for more information on Frank. Abergnail amongst the many sources we used. We found. Franks autobiography catch me. If you can extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of con artists and all other parkas originals for free on spotify. Not only to spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easier for you to enjoy? All of your favorite podcast originals. Like Kon Artis for free from your phone. Desktop small speaker to stream cannotice on spotify just opening APP and type Catis in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time. Con Artists was created by Max Cutler is Parkas studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler. Sound design by Anthony Val stick with production assistance by Ron Shapiro. Currently Madison and Aaron Lassen. This episode of cannotice was written by list of Ethan with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon. I'm our stem. Murden hi listeners. Don't forget to check out. Podcast fantastic new original series dictators. Every Tuesday dictators examines the reins of real life tyrants exploring the unique conditions that allow them to seize control. Discover the governments that fell the lives that were destroyed and evil at its highest level search for dictators and the spotify APP. And listen free today.

Frank Frank Abergnail Frank W Williams Franks Frank Williams Frank Senior frank junior Pan Am Frank Board Frank rush Frank Success Pan FBI Con Artists Manhattan frank state spotify fraud Miami Laguardia Airport
S7: April Fooled: Frank Abagnale Pt. 1: Catch Me If You Can

Parcast Presents

44:28 min | 8 months ago

S7: April Fooled: Frank Abagnale Pt. 1: Catch Me If You Can

"How could one man fool so many people into believing he was a lawyer? Doctor Airline pilots and more. Well get ready to spot the cons. Expose the secrets and explore the many identities of frank abergnail junior in these fantastic episodes from con artists. You can discover more of history's most slice swindlers every Wednesday by subscribing to Catis free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. In the meantime enjoy in one thousand nine hundred sixty four a young pan am co-pilot named Frank Williams entered Laguardia Airport with an air of confidence. He noted warmly to the other pilots and stewardesses as he passed and strolled through security with a brief flash of his security badge. He was a well known figure. In the terminal greeted warmly. By all the flight personnel he encountered Williams approached the desk of Eastern Airlines and requested a flight to Miami. This wasn't unusual. It was a common courtesy for airlines to offer free tickets to all pilots. Regardless of what company they worked for off to a quick look at his Pan. Am ID card and his certified pilot's license. He was quickly ushered aboard the next available flight. Frank settled into the jump seat located next to the cockpit where the rest of the crew was seated. He engaged in friendly banter with the stewardesses and the pilots on board while the final checks were prepared. Then the captain picked up his headpiece and radio the Federal Aviation Administration for FAA Tower Francs Heart froze as he overheard the pilot explain that they had a Pan Am pilots on board with them. The captain listened for a moment. Then nodded frank. They had the all-clear frank that out a deep breath as the plane race down the runway and lifted off if the FAA tower had requested more information about the unexpected guest on their flight. They might have discovered that the twenty six year-old Frank Williams didn't exist. The man sitting on their plane was frank. William Abigail junior a sixteen year old runaway with nothing more than a fake. Id Card and a stolen pilot's uniform then. Newest Flyer wasn't just a criminal. He was one of America's most notorious con artists. Welcome to con artists. Apar- cost original. I'm Alistair Myrddin every week. We peel back. The layers of history's greatest deceptions and tell the stories of the hustlers swindlers and fraudsters. That orchestrated them. I'll dive into this psychology breakdown tricks and explain why anyone fool. For a con- you can find episodes of con artists and all other parkas originals for free on spotify. Wherever you listen to podcasts to stream for free on spotify just open the APP and type. Catis in the search bar at podcast with grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network? And if you enjoyed today's episode the best way to help is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening it really does help us. This is our first episode on Frank. Abergnail a scamming wounded kin. Who became one of America's most ingenious contest during his five year career? This week we'll learn about francs early start in crime from high school delinquent to skilled forger will also see how he became a master impostor crofting new identities for himself as a pilot lawyer and even Dr Next Week. We'll hear how. Frank evaded capture and went on the run where he continued pulling small cons and fraud until his eventual arrest. In only five years. Frank Abergnail junior managed to cause a major stir in the criminal world after running away from home at sixteen francs survived on forged checks until he created a new identity for himself. As a Pan Am pilot. He stayed one step ahead of the authorities. Two years flying over two hundred fifty thousand miles and scamming hotels and airlines all over the country out of thousands of dollars after a close call with the F. B. I. Frank evaded capture using a slew of new on densities before returning to his roots in check forgery by the time he was first arrested in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. He had become a master con artist. But Frank was given a second chance when he was recruited to work for the FBI there. He served as a security consultant long. After his sentence was completed to make up for all the trouble he caused. Frank abergnail junior wasn't a typical teenage runaway. He actually grew up in a comfortable middle class home in Westchester New York in the nineteen fifties. His Father Frank Abergnail senior ran a successful stationery store in midtown Manhattan. While his mother took care of the family and the home in the suburbs frank was close to both of his parents but he had a special bond with his dad however while things seemed happy from the outside looking in the illusion of the happy Abigail family was shattered when frank was only twelve. His parents separated in nineteen sixty leaving their children court in the middle devastated by the rift in his marriage. Frank senior begged his son to help him convince his mother to come back to the family. But despite Frank Juniors best efforts his parents officially divorced two years later when he was fourteen in the aftermath of his parents separation. Frank went to live with his father while the rest of his siblings stayed with his mother. This fracture and his family had a profound effect on Frank. According to a study conducted by the University Titan Amsterdam children with divorced parents are more likely to commit non violent crimes than those whose parents stayed together. There are a number of reasons why this may be including a sudden lack of parental oversight a newly frauds family structure and in some cases because the child is attempting to unite their parents with a common goal worrying about their behavior. It's unclear which of these may be applicable to Frank Abergnail but being caught in the middle of his mother and found. This divorce was undoubtedly a source of emotional stress for adolescent frank and this only the beginning of the upheaval. He experience life with frank senior was drastically different from the family life. He'd known before Franken always idolized his father but now away from that quiet life in the suburbs. Frank was witnessing an entirely new side of his dad in the city. Frank's father spent most of his time outside of the office in bars drinking with various business partners throughout Manhattan under his father's Care Frank. Junior saw a whole different view on the world now. Instead of living a sheltered suburban life frank was interacting with all kinds of colorful characters. He realized that life wasn't as black and white as he previously been told rules could be bent or even broken and everything was available to him so long as he wanted enough inspired by this new amoral perspective before long frank began shoplifting and playing hooky from school as Frank continued acting out. He fell in with a bad crowd from school. I his new friends engaged in mostly harmless behavior stealing a pack of Gum. Cutting Jim Clouds but as they continued getting away with small crimes. They grew more reckless until one day. The group was caught stealing a car. Frank was just fourteen francs. Father was able to intervene and expunged the arrest from his permanent record. The close call was enough to put frank back on the straight and narrow at least for a while. The young teen got a part time job to stay busy off to school and his father bought him an old Ford so he could commute easily but when he turned fifteen francs interest in women flourished unfortunately his modest income couldn't support an active dating life so he started looking for other ways to make some quick cash to help loosen his tight budget. Frank begged his father for a gas card that would essentially act as a credit card for gas station purchases. He couldn't apply for one under his own name because at fifteen he was underage. Frank senior agreed on the condition. That frank junior would be responsible for the bill in full every month. Frank agreed delighted for the first few weeks. He used it faithfully and he was able to use the money he would have otherwise spent on gas on dates but it wasn't long before he saw a gleaming opportunity to make a little more money on the side. The card could be used not only to purchase gas but to buy other supplies sold at gas stations to such as Taya's windshield wipers or even small accessories so in one thousand nine hundred sixty four. Frank came up with a clever little racket. He convinced the cashiers at the gas station to charge his father's gas card for a purchase. Then frank sold the item back to the cashiers at a discounted rate for cash his co conspirators with an able to pocket the difference in exchange for looking the other way. It was a win win for the first time in his life. Frank had money to throw around. He was able to go on an elaborate dates with as many women as he chose buying expensive clothes. Some flowers for the occasion. He also treats it himself whenever he felt like Kit. The racket continued for three months until the bill finally arrived through the mail. It came to a shocking total of three thousand four hundred dollars nearly thirty thousand dollars in today's currency despite his earlier insistence that frank junior cover all of his charges Frank Sena treated the incident lightheartedly and when Frank Junior explained his reason for racking up such a huge sum. His father paid off the bill in full clearing his name once again but when Frank's mother found out about the incident. She was extremely upset by what she considered to be negligence on the part of Frank's father. She enrolled Franken a private school for troubled boys in port. Chester New York while she and his father fought over his custody. The school was highly disciplined and rigorous in his autobiography. Catch me if you can. Frank described the atmosphere as prison-like and oppressive. It was a far cry from the life. He led with his father and it took a heavy toll on his emotional state. But things at home weren't any easier after his latest transgression. Frank's mother was convinced that she should have custody of frank but his father wasn't backing down without a fight and the situation was only growing more fraud around the same time. Francine was forced to close down his stationery store by the time. Frank Junior returned home for the summer. His father was in serious financial trouble. He could no longer afford the same lavish lifestyle. He once led to make ends meet. Frank Senior took a job working at the post office which depressed his son immensely between his father's downfall and his parents bitter war over his custody. Frank Junior found his new circumstances at home to be unbearable and in June of nineteen sixty four. When he was just sixteen years old he dropped out of school and ran away to New York City. He had no job no plan. And no prospects just a savings with two hundred dollars stocked away about seventeen hundred dollars today. But despite the odds against him. Frank was about to find a way to bend the rules in his favor coming up. Frank stumbles on the inspiration for his first major corn in the heart of New York City. Now back to the story in the summer of nineteen sixty four sixteen year old frank abergnail ran away from home to New York City with little money and no plan and while he was able to find a place to stay he only had enough money to sustain him for a few weeks. His only goal was to be a success like his father had been just a couple of years. Prior but frank status is a high school dropout. In addition to his young age made this a tool order he was able to find a minimum wage job that paid just a dollar fifty an hour or sixty dollars a week but the meager amount was badly enough to cover his rent. Even at New York's lowest prices. Frank realized that if he didn't want to return to his parents he needed to find a solution and quick so believing that his young age was holding him back. He decided to commit his first real act of fraud. He adjusted his driver's license with a fine tip pen changing his year of birth from nineteen forty eight to nineteen thirty eight. He hoped the a twenty six year old might have an easier time finding work than a sixteen year old. Luckily his hair was turning prematurely. Grey making him look older than he really was so the lie was easy to believe but even adding a full decade to his age only bumped his hourly wage up to to seventy five to cover the difference. He cashed checks from his savings account but while he did this he realized that the process had a loophole. He could use a check as real money. Despite the fact that it took the bank several days to verify that his account had enough funds for the purchase in financial terms. The process was cold. Check floating essentially it allowed him to write checks for money he didn't have and get away with it for a period of time. Frank knew that his account was overdrawn but his checks cats clearing instead of panicking over the sorry state of his finances. He felt as if a burden had lifted from his chest. Suddenly he was sixteen years old with access to all the money he could ever want with this new source of income. He could lead a far more comfortable life than with his minimum wage job so he decided to quit and live off the bad checks. He kept writing taking advantage of the opportunity to live the lavish lifestyle. He'd so desperately wanted he went to fancy restaurants and drank. The most expensive liquor two months went by with no repercussions. But Frank knew that it wouldn't be long until the Hammock came crashing down as long as he avoided the people he wrote bad checks to. He figured he remained more or less safe but he knew his bank would have an easier time tracking him down eventually. They close his account. Moreover he was still a runaway in the eyes of the law with his parents justice city away in Westchester. It was only a matter of time before they would find him and for Frank. Going home wasn't an option. He had to get out of New York. It was right around this time that he passed the Commodore Hotel a luxurious building in Midtown. Manhattan as he walked by a flight crew from Eastern Airlines emerged from its gold trim doors laughing as the doorman ushered the group into a waiting. Cab in that crisp uniforms. They were treated with the difference. That immediately made frank envious. He watched the ease with which they were able to cash their checks. At the concierge desk a privilege he learned almost exclusively reserved for flight crew. That's when he came up with an idea that would both allow him to skip town and draw on a new source of income. What's if he became an airline pilot? It was a prestigious job will give him easy access to transportation as well as a uniform that commanded respect wherever he went and he didn't need to go through the flight academy all he needed to do was look the part. He was already pretending to be ten years older than he really was. The rest was just window-dressing. Frank knew that he had to get all the details right starting with the uniform. He called the Pan Am switchboard posing as pilots named Robert Black Nervous. He explained that he had lost his uniform and ask the operator where he could get a replacement as it turned out. Frank had no reason to feel and see the operator directed him to a uniform specialist in New York without a second thought and wished him a pleasant flight. Frank had a phony check prepared just for the occasion but all the clerk asked for was his employees account on the spot. Frank set the first five numbers that came to mind and the clerk wrote them down to bill. Pan Am later by the time. He realized that the account was fake. Frank was long gone uniform in hand. The next step was getting an identification badge as well as a pilot's license. Frank didn't know what a real pilots ID card looked like that was a minor hurdle he found the address of a business specialising identification cards insecurities and scheduled an appointment. He dressed in his finest suit for the interview. Posing as a representative from a small international airline. There was expanding into the United States. He explained that he needed professional. Identification Cards made for all of his employees. He then ask for a sample. Id Card to be drawn up specifically like the ones issued by Pan. Am using himself as the subject. Frank gave them the pseudonym Frank Williams for the ide- posing as a co-pilot the company didn't bat tonight at his request and happily obliged but the ID card. That frank walked out with was missing one. Crucial detail the Pan Am logo as frank walk through the streets of New York trying to figure out how to replicate the famous emblem. He happened to pass a toy shop inside. The store window were model airplanes from all the most famous airlines at the time including Pan. Am Frank bought the plane set and used the sticker decal insight to complete his new? Id Card the resulting document was incredibly realistic. He followed a similar process to get an authentic. Faa License certifying him as a trained United States less than a month after he'd settled on this new venture. Frank looked like a professional pilot but he still knew nothing about the business the jargon or even how the equipment itself operated so relying once again on the Handy Pan Am Switchboard. Frank posed as a high school reporter writing an article on the end. Line business using this trick. He was able to talk to a captain. The pilots was happy to answer all of the earnest young reporters questions even some of the more unorthodox ones including how much pilots made how prospective candidates climbed the ladder. And whether it was true. That pilots could fly for free. The captain explained the process of dead heading. It was a courtesy. The airlines of that flight crews from their competitors to ensure the planes from all airlines had the right staff in the right cities at the right time. It was exactly the information. Frank could use to get out of town quickly armed with his newfound knowledge of the airline industry as well as his freshly tailored uniform. Frank decided it was time for a test run. Sixteen year old. Frank entered Laguardia Airport in the fall of nineteen sixty four emboldened by the confidence that his new clothes granted him he showed his. Id to the security desk then tried to blend in with the crowds of people that day. His only goal was to see if he could pull off the disguise as he sat down for a bite to eat. Frank was joined by a T W A co-pilot. The man looked at him inquisitive. Lii and asked what Japan and pilot was doing laguardia. Apparently despite all the research he'd done. Frank had forgotten one of the most basic details. What AIRPORTS PAN? Am Pilots flew out of love? Frank Galt and quickly made up an answer explaining that he had to dead head a last minute flight from Frisco and was on route to his final destination out of JFK the TWA pilot gave him a weird look then asked him what equipment he was on. Frank froze he had no clue what the man meant but based on his demeanor. It was a common question that any pilots should have been able to answer frank at a loss explained that he was on General Electric. It was the wrong answer he waited breathlessly as the TWA pilot left without another word fearing that. The GIG was up. Frank rush down to the airport before he could be dragged out by security after this close call. Frank decided that he needed to spend more time practicing before he boarded his first plane. He started hanging out in his uniform at Laguardia deliberately avoiding JFK so as to avoid bumping into real Pan Am pilots who would see through his facade. Frank chatted with the other flight crew for several weeks. He made sure to write down every tidbit. He learned in a small notebook that he carried everywhere and slowly but surely he incorporated the Lingo into his speech and acclimated himself with their daily routine once. He felt confident in his abilities. Frank packed up. All his belongings moved out of his apartment and swallowed his nerves. Finally he was going to dead head his first flight. He decided to go to Miami once he landed. Franco's offer every courtesy that a real pan pilot would have received including free taxi to the local hotel used by all airlines at the hotel. He was able to charge his room. Fees and all his meals to Pan Am all he needed to provide. The return was his account number the same number that his uniform was supposedly charged too but the benefit that frank was most excited about was the ability to cash checks at any airport or hotel desk in the nineteen sixties. Most checks had to be deposited at the same bank that manage your account but because of how often pilots traveled. They were offered the courtesy of being able to process payments in more convenient locations. Once again frank was able to float. He received the money from his fate. Check immediately but by the time the hotel or airport realized it had bounced. He had already hopped on a flight to another city. The system was highly efficient as low as frank avoided hitting the same cities or hotels twice. He was able to avoid any repercussions he deliberately. Only cashed out relatively small amounts no more than one hundred dollars each time or about eight hundred sixty dollars today. If he was reported to the police lower amounts would remain relatively low on their list of priorities to investigate otherwise they may have been inclined to pursue him more aggressively over the next two years. Frank flew constantly making a temporary home whenever he landed. He always post doesn't off-duty pilot about to catch a flight but never attempted to actually learn how to fly. In some cases the captain's he flew with offered him a seat in the cockpit. But Frank was always careful to switch on the autopilot. At first frank worried about being caught but as months passed without a single close cool. He started growing more confident before long he started enjoying the lifestyle he'd always being charismatic. And as a result he made fast friends with his fellow pilots but he paid closer attention to the stewardesses and every once in a while usually when he was running low on checks he would stay with one of the generous flight attendants for a few weeks time. Parts of Frank Success can be attributed to a psychological phenomenon known as the status enhancement theory. This idea states that people who are overly confident in their abilities actually go on to achieve higher status because self assuredness affects people's perceptions of them in other words. Fake it until you make. It is actually legitimate device. This phenomenon is especially successful when other people can't accurately perceive whether or not your confidence is justified in francs case. He acted as confident co-pilot even when he wasn't asked to sit in the cockpit and so the colleagues he interacted with had no reason to doubt his flying abilities or the authenticity of his cover story. But even though he managed to fool his fellow flight crew Franks movements through the sky didn't go entirely unnoticed over the first couple months of his con. Panam had received a string of complaints about the pilot cashing bad checks as a patent began to emerge pan and realized that the unknown pilots was committing consistent. Small-time fraud they informed the FBI. But they didn't know any details about the man defrauding them. He traveled so often that they couldn't find a home address any accomplices or even relatives. That might know his whereabouts. They didn't even know the name of the man they were looking for the warrant for his arrest listed him as a John Doe but after two years they had a solid lead namely the pseudonym that kept popping up on many phony checks Frank Williams the eighteen year old conman couldn't outrun the authorities forever finally in nineteen sixty seven. The police were able to track Frank Williams down a flight from New Orleans to Miami listed. Him As dead heading in the jump seat. Frank was taken off the plane as soon as the jet landed and brought in for questioning by the local police. Frank stay calm and acted outraged when the police brought him into the interrogation room he provided all the necessary identification as well as his license all the while carefully maintaining the facade of a bewildered slightly annoyed professional then just when frank could see the light at the end of the tunnel a couple of FBI agents entered the room and took over the questioning. This turn was enough to throw frank. He had figured that people from Pan Am would catch on eventually but he had no idea that the FBI was already on his tail. Luckily for him the Fed seemed unsure of the original case. A file had been opened by the Bureau. But these agents didn't seem to be aware as to the reasons why in fact they had no reason to believe frank was anything but an ordinary pilot. His idea and license seemed real enough to them and the impression was further helped by Frank's own annoyance by a miraculous stroke of luck. The police had pulled frank on a weekend. If it had been a week day they could have easily checked frank. Williams in the Pan Am company records but the office was closed now and unfortunately they couldn't hold him over the weekend all they could do was make a judgment call. Frank walked out to the police station with shaky hands but soon as he could he changed out of his pilot's uniform and bought a real ticket to Atlanta under the alias. Tom Lombardi he wasn't sticking around in Miami to see if the FBI decided to follow up a Monday. Thankfully Frank had saved. Most of the cashiered collected over the years. After his narrow escape he could lay low in Atlanta. Frank looked for housing and on a whim. He listed doctor as his profession on a rental application. He decided to put his pilot days behind him. But within a few short weeks that seemingly innocuous decision would come back to bite him coming up next. Frank is roped into fabricating another profession. This time with life or death consequences now back to the story in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. Eighteen year old frank. Abergnail was laying low in Atlanta Georgia after spending two years posing as a Pan Am pilot but a recent brush with the FBI halted his flying career in his tracks. It was the first time he'd seen the consequences of his actions up close and the experience was enough to rattle him in Atlanta. Frank found an apartment complex vacancy and moved in on the same day paying six month's rent in cash on his application he listed himself as a pediatrician on Sabbatical under the name. Frank W Williams. He hoped this but help him avoid any or could questions about his disposable income and lack of any clear job. The complex was full of young professional people and within a few weeks. Frank was able to relax for the first time a long time. He felt like he had a home. Then a knock came on the door. Frank look through the peephole to find an unassuming older man standing on the side. When frank opened the door he introduced himself as Dr Willis? Granger Dr Grainger explained that he was also a pediatrician. Who just moved in downstairs? Frank could barely get an A. Shocked HELLO BEFORE. Grainger started grilling him with questions. He asked about Frank's practice and what research he was doing. While on Sabbatical he also invited him to visit the hospital where he worked not far from the complex. Frank excused himself as soon as he could and immediately panicked believing that his cover was blown pretending to be a doctor around civilians was one thing but he could never maintain the facade around. An actual pediatrician but before he could pack everything up and leave in the middle of the night he paused he'd grown to like it in Atlanta and the thought of going on the run again was unappealing. He'd made himself into a pilot. How hard could it be for him to become a doctor? Psychologists refer to this outlook as a challenge mindset otherwise known as gain orientation. This is when someone looks at a stressful situation and sees an opportunity to prove themselves believing that they have the necessary skills to conquer said challenge the challenge mindset is often seen in successful businessman athletes other prominent members of society and Con Artists. It can lead to reckless risky behavior. This mindset governed francs life. Whenever he saw an obstacle in his path he always found a way around it and so frank decided on a new plan. He would learn everything he needed to know. In order to pass as a pediatrician. He spent days in the library reading medical journals since standard text books then in late nineteen sixty seven just a few weeks after their first introduction. Frank finally took Dr Grainger up on his offer to visit the hospital. The eighteen year old made sure to stay away from any medical procedures focusing solely on charming the staff but during the visit he established a rapport with Dr Grainger and some of the other hospital personnel including a young nurse who he started dating before long frank became a regular visitor. Posing as the pediatrician sabbatical. He took advantage of his free reign of the hospital by visiting the library and continuing his medical studies before long. He saw an opportunity to put his knowledge to the test when a senior resident went on leave to deal with a family emergency. The hospital director called Frank into his office at I was terrified. He believed that the director had somehow found out about his cover instead. He asked him to step in to supervise the interns. Frank was blindsided but the director assured frank that he wouldn't have to perform actual medicine just oversee the doctors as they did. Frank was ensure this was a challenge. He could pull off but when it came down to it. It was the hefty consultant's fee the persuaded him one hundred and twenty five dollars a day. Which would be worth over nine hundred and fifty dollars in twenty twenty for the second time in two years? Frank found himself in a highly skilled profession with nothing more than a little studying and a lot of self confidence and for the first few months he was able to maintain his cover by letting the interns take charge of any new medical cases that rolled in. They didn't mind in. There is the dock was giving them a chance to prove themselves but frank soured on the position for one thing. The CON artist hated blood every time he was called to the emergency room. He did whatever he could to dawdle until another doctor had time to get there and take hold of the situation but more seriously frank realized that his impersonation could actually put people at risk on one especially close call. A nurse called Frank. Frantic seeking assistance for a blue baby thinking she was joking. He asked if there was also a green baby but the nurse didn't even register the off comment. She went looking for another doctor instead. Who could save the infant's life shortly after the incident? The hospital found a permanent replacement to take over the position and coincidentally frank's lease on. The apartment was up. He decided it was time to move on before he was brought into anymore. Emergency rooms and had to encounter any more blood so in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven the nineteen year old. Frank moved to Louisiana to stay with Diane. A stewardess. He briefly dated while posing as a Pan Am pilot. Diane knew him as Robert F Conrad at Dashing co-pilot to found his way into aerospace after finishing his law degree at Harvard. It was a white lie to impress her at the time. But unfortunately for Frank. Diane had a long memory. A few weeks after frank moved in. She introduced him to the assistant. State District Attorney Jason Wilcox Willcocks immediately. Begged Frank to apply for a position in their offices. Talented lawyers are hard to come by and they were desperate for good people too eager to jump into yet another high-intensity profession. Frankie explained that he'd never even taken the bar exam. He wasn't qualified to practice law but Wilcox continued to press him explaining that frank could take the Louisiana bar with just a couple of weeks of studying. Frank tried to say no but once again he was interested to see if he could rise to the challenge. He decided to sit for the bar. After all there was no harm in trying you also realize that each task came back attached with the results allowing him to see which questions he'd got an incorrect and why and after two failed attempts he finally passed the Louisiana Bar exam on his third try. Frank took Wilcox up on his offer and started working as a desk assistant in the DA's office in nineteen sixty seven. He wasn't asked to practice any law instead. He filed motions and conducted case research once in his life. It seemed like an almost honest Gig even if his means of procuring. It's weren't exactly ethical. But more importantly frank enjoyed the prestige that came with working for the district attorney after about nine months. A Jealous Co workers realized that some of Frank's stories about Harvard law went adding up and ask Wilcox to run a background. Check on Mr Robert Conrad before he could be exposed. Frank skipped town again heading further west. He wasn't sure what his next move would be. But he vowed to make his living honestly after a stint as a teacher in Utah. Frank eventually ended up in Eureka. California a small town bursting with potential but with no immediate opportunity for a man without a real resume. As frank savings swindled. He slowly found himself falling back into old habits and before long he was running new creative cons that would put him at the top of the FBI's most wanted list. Thanks for listening to contest. We'll be back next week with two Frank Abergnail story. We'll follow the infamous conman. As he becomes an expert in forging checks. All over the world will also learn how the FBI's dog hunt for. Frank ended with an unlikely partnership for more information on Frank. Abergnail amongst the many sources we used. We found Franks autobiography. Catch me if you can extremely helpful to our research you can find all episodes of Cannata sent all other power costs. Originals for free on spotify. Not only the spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like con artists for free from your phone. Desktop or small speaker to stream con artist on spotify just opening up and type con artists in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time. Conan was created by Max Cutler and his Parka studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler sound designed by Anthony Val sick with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Erin Lawson. This episode of Con Artists was written by Liz vison with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon. I'm Alistair Murdoch.

F. B. I. Frank Frank Abergnail Frank W Williams Frank Williams frank junior Frank Senior Frank rush Frank Success Frank Sena Frank Galt Pan Pan Am Con Artists Bureau fraud Miami Manhattan spotify Laguardia Airport Federal Aviation Administratio
S7: April Fooled: Frank Abagnale Pt. 2: Catch Me If You Can

Parcast Presents

44:41 min | 8 months ago

S7: April Fooled: Frank Abagnale Pt. 2: Catch Me If You Can

"In nineteen sixty seven nineteen year old. Frank Abergnail junior was in the middle of his biggest score yet. Hosing once again as airline pilot Frank Williams. He cashed out fraudulent expense checks all over town in Eureka. California to the tune of five thousand dollars or about thirty eight thousand three hundred dollars today on his last morning in Eureka. Frank was packing up to hit the road when he realised he'd misplaced check and not just any check but one with his real name and address written on the back. He just created a paper trail leading to his front door. Frank immediately called the bank. The tele who answered informed him that they had already identified. The check is a fake and had called the FBI agent would be arriving at the branch. Any Minute. Francs stomach dropped sinking quickly. Frank identified himself as the agent in question and informed the manager that he would be on the scene in fifteen minutes. He quickly changed into his most professional suit and without an ID or plan entered the same bank. He'd scam just twenty four hours earlier. The head teller was already waiting for him. Frank turned on the charm. Hoping it would make up for his lack of identification. Luckily didn't ask for any. Frank took the check from her explaining that it was vital evidence but first he made her a copy making sure to xerox only the front then with their cheerful wave. Frank walked out of the bank. Five minutes later the real FBI arrived. But Frank Abergnail had already skipped town. Welcome to Cornutus Park oust original. I'm Alistair murden every week. We peel back. The layers of history's greatest deceptions and tell the stories of the hustlers swindlers and fraudsters. That orchestrated Ben. I'll dive into their psychology breakdown that tricks and explain why anyone might fool. For a con- you can find episodes of con artists and all other podcast originals for free on spotify wherever you listen to podcasts to stream con artists for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type Cornutus in the search bar at podcast with grateful few listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how it doing reach outs on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at Parkas network. Last week we discussed Frank Abergnail. A CON artist Wunderkind. Who ran away from home? At sixteen to escape his parents divorce frank began forging checks to fund an itinerant lifestyle across America taking on various new identities including an airline pilot. A pediatrician and the lawyer. This week we'll hear how frank perfected the art of counterfeiting then disguised as an airline pilot and funded by his fraud. He traveled the world but eventually the law caught up with him by the tender age of Nineteen Frank. Abergnail hits switched careers more often than most adults using nothing more than his brains. His confidence and little forgery. He'd repeatedly wormed his way into the professional world posing as a doctor lawyer and airline pilot but somewhere in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven when colleague in his new life as an attorney started questioning his credentials. Frank was almost exposed. He fled town. Managing a narrow escape soon. After Frank decided he was ready to go straight. He bought a car with some of his leftover con money and drove West. He didn't necessarily have a plan but he was sure that the right opportunity would present itself and soon enough one did while passing through UTAH. Frank notice that the state had plenty of college campuses and for a moment he entertained the idea of enrolling after all he was the right age and he had already proven himself to be a quick study but as he mulled. The idea over. Frank found an ad in a local. Utah Paper Advertising for a summer. Sociology Teaching Assistant at Brigham Young University and suddenly he had a better idea why pay to be a student when he could get paid to help teach while the university has since denied it. Frank claims that he called up the university that same day and after forging a transcript from Columbia. University was hired to help lecture for the summer as a high school dropout. Frank was hardly qualified to help teach history let alone college sociology. Course but he managed to maintain the illusion by always reading a chapter ahead of his students and whenever the material failed him. Frank would simply open the floor for discussion. A surefire way to kill time according to Franks autobiography. Catch me if you can. His lectures were immensely popular with students and Brigham. Young University by his own accounts informed. Frank that if a fulltime faculty position became available he would be one of the first calls but once the summer session ended. Frank was back on the road though it had been two years since he cashed a fake check his anxiety that the authorities were closing in never let him linger in one place for too long. In fact there was no reason to believe anyone knew where he was. But even so Frank. Felton urgent need to get out of town on his way. South Toward San Francisco. He happened to pullover in Eureka. California but was originally meant to be a pitstop turned into an extended. Stay when frank started dating a local woman while he was in Eureka Frank? Maiden interesting observation. Though it was a fairly small town it had a disproportionate number of banks. He realized this presented a rare opportunity with so many institutions to scam. He could make a big score in one place. A first for frank and luckily for him he still had some personal checks from his days as a pilot and his old uniform as we discussed in our last episode pilots can cash checks at pretty much any bank without question even if he cash doubts as little as one hundred dollars each branch it would leave him with a grand total of a thousand dollars about seven thousand four hundred dollars today but one thousand dollars didn't feel big enough for his one. Last score and personal checks were always subject to more scrutiny. That's when frank had another idea he could forge a payroll check from pan. Am The company logo would give him more authenticity and would allow him to cash out. Higher amounts without question. Frank immediately got to work. He bought some blank counterchecks. More Panam decals and a second hand typewriter from a nearby stationery store with his supplies. In hand he set about creating a realistic looking expense check. He made the checkout for five hundred and sixty eight dollars and seventy cents a number that felt realistic for a pilot working for a high caliber airline. The first check took a total of two hours to make but even then frank wasn't especially pleased with the end result. He was worried that it didn't look professional enough and would easily be spotted as a forgery but without a real Pan Am check to use as a template he had no way of knowing how close to the real thing his version was there was only one way of telling he would have to test it but before he took the leap. Frank wanted something else from Pan Am to help sell his Li- passing something off by using an element of truth isn't a new concept. The technical term is cold pulsating where perpetrator uses true statements or Catholic missions in order to make something false or convincing according to the Harvard Business Review in everyday situations puttering can be used in negotiation in a job interview or even when selling a used car. For example an executive interviewing a top candidates might tell her that they received one hundred resumes and a meeting with ten potential hires. This may be true but what they omit is that she's their favorite choice by a mile. This gives them leverage when it comes to negotiating a salary and benefits but Colorado is take this tactic one step further in the case francs fraudulent checks. He knew that he had a better chance. At convincing the bank teller that his check was the gypsum it. If it came from an authentic Pan Am envelope so he simply added a pan and decal and postage stamp to a regular envelope and took out the check for a trial run to his delight. The bank accepted it without a hitch. He walked out five hundred. Sixty eight dollars and seventy cents richer over four thousand dollars today. Elated frank quickly run back to the hotel to create more sham checks by his calculations there were ten banks in Eureka and he had at least five business days before anyone realized his first check was fraudulent that gave him more than enough time to hit each bank and get out of town before anyone could arrest him but a fateful encounter over lunch almost derailed. Franks whole operation while eating at a seafood restaurant. Frank ran into the fishermen who caught that day's catch the two men bonded over their mutual love of classic cars and the fishermen offered to send frank pictures of his latest project and nineteen fifty four convertible. He asked for francs address so he could mail them over. The request. Put Frank on the spot. Everyone in Eureka knew him as Frank Williams but Frank Williams didn't have a home address and Frank Abergnail was actually interested in seeing the Ford so he took out a blank cheque from his pocket and wrote out his real name as well as his father's address in New York on the back but before frank could hand him the info. The fishermen was called away. Frank Hawk did the check and resumed his day forgetting about the encounter the next morning as he was packing to leave town. Frank suddenly remembered the check with all his personal information he looked around for the incriminating paper but couldn't find it anywhere in the hotel room. He remembered that after meeting the fishermen he'd taken several checks to bank earlier that morning then it hit him. He'd cashed the check. The bank now had his real name and address on an incriminating piece of evidence. Frank cold the bank immediately to inquire after the fake check. He learned that the FBI was already on. Its Way without a plan. Frank identified himself as the agent. He explained that he needed to collect the check for evidence and scheduled to meet with the head. Tyler in fifteen minutes time within the hour frank had successfully walked out of the bank the incriminating check in hand and high tailed it out of Eureka. Later he learned that he missed the real. Fbi agent by five minutes. But while frank was overjoyed by his narrow escape the feds were furious not only had they lost their culprit but he'd impersonated an agent and humiliated them in the process and so they made it their mission to catch the mysterious conman. Whatever it took coming up frank abergnail becomes a Master Forger as the FBI devotes more resources to find him now. Back to the story. In nineteen sixty seven nineteen year old. Frank Abergnail headed to San Francisco emboldened by his latest con after forging a series of fraudulent checks. He had successfully escaped the clutches of the FBI. Five thousand dollars richer and so after initially pledging to do just one law school. Frank decided that perhaps it was too early to throw in the towel on crime. San Francisco offered frank a place to hone his rudimentary forging skills and with each batch. His false checks looked and felt more authentic this combined with his thorough knowledge of the US banking system quickly made him one of the full most check. Forgers in the country. Not everyone could walk into a bank and cash out counterfeit check but as the former police chief of Houston said Frank. Abergnail could write a check on toilet. Paper sign it. You are hooked and cash it at any bank in town using a Hong Kong driver's license in his autobiography. Catch me. If you can. Frank breaks his process down with a little more elegance. According to him the most important traits Akon man can possess a personality observation and research personality and frank. Ace really meant charisma. Or carrying himself with confidence and authority. A suit would only get him so far when he was passing off a fraudulent check he also needed to convince the Bank Teller. That he was beyond scrutiny. Franks pilot uniform went a long way in selling this but without his charm he wouldn't have gotten as far as he did. Observation and research accounted for the rest of his success early in his career. Frank noticed that the numbers at the bottom of his checks varied depending on which state had issued them off to some investigation. He learned that. The numbers indicates at the location of the bank account. The check had originated from where the original accounts from determined how quickly check cleared the further away. The bank accounts the longer it took for its be processed for checks shoot from local banks. It took only three days for the money to be declared as valid but a check deposit in San from faraway city like Boston could take up to seven luckily for Frank. Local tellers often didn't pay attention to these numbers. And eventually he was able to use this knowledge in even more creative ways for instance if frank opened a new account for ten thousand dollars so so standard. Bank policy prevented him from making withdraws for three days. The amount of time it took for local check to clear but the numbers on the check. Frank deposited were actually non-local meaning. The process took much longer but by the time the check was found to be a fake. Frank had already withdrawn the money and disappear. The city of San Francisco had so many banks to fleece that the nineteen year old. Frank soon found himself with more cash than he could reasonably spend. He took out to safety deposit boxes under different. Aliases and deposited twenty five thousand dollars over one hundred and nine hundred thousand dollars today in each one paying rent on the boxes. Three years in advance but San Francisco proved to be more than just an ideal place to carry out fraud soon. Frank also found himself head over heels one day while posing as pilots at the San Francisco International Airport. Frank met Rosalie a stewardess and the two began dating before long. The relationship grew serious. Frank even went to l. a. to meet her parents before he proposed. Rosalie and her family were discussing marriage. Frank was in love for the first time but as an impostor who'd been on the run since age sixteen the idea of marriage made him understandably nervous. He had enough money to finance a wedding and to buy a home but Rosalie knew him. Only by his alias. Frank Williams not Frank Abergnail moreover with a wife at home. It would be far more difficult for frank to run cons or disappear if things got messy. If he wanted to continue the relationship he would have to confide in his potential fiance so one day in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven wall in La Frank and Rowsley found some time alone for a bike. Ride the love. Birds dismounted and a beautiful park and took a stroll as Rosalie began to talk about their future family. Frank sat down on the grass. Then he told her everything with bated breath. He explained that he wasn't who she thought he was. He wasn't frank. Williams the dashing. Twenty eight year old pilot but rather frank abergnail a nineteen year old con artist from Westchester. County wanted by the FBI. He explained the circumstances of his parents. Divorce and how he'd spent the last three years on the run then finally about how he had made a living by creating fraudulent checks. Rosalie listened with wide eyes head shaking. She refused to believe what he was telling her after all she'd seen his pilot's license and his Pan Am ID card. She met him at the airport. For God's Sakes and everything he'd said to her indicated that he was familiar with the industry there was no way he could be lying about everything but as he continued laying out details from the past four years of his life. The truth was undeniable. Rosalie was distraught. She left him in the park agreeing to meet him later and finished talking after she left. Doubts began creeping into frank's mind. He wondered whether telling Rosalie the truth was the right move. Or if he'd given her all the ammunition she needed to expose him to the police. He decided to go back to her parents house. Sooner Than They arranged he wanted to finish that conversation and to judge whether it was time to skip town once again as he pulled up to the house frank noticed an unmarked vehicle parked in the driveway. And a couple of feet down the road an LAPD squad car. Frank didn't anticipate just how quickly Rosalie turn on him. But he didn't waste any time feeling betrayed or hurt he immediately turned around and got on a flight to San Francisco once there. He packed up all his belongings paid for his room and left without a forwarding address that same night he was in Las Vegas a city known for mending heartbreak but frank was surprised to realize that he wasn't heartbroken. He was relieved without a wife by his side. He was free to continue conning his way through the states and he realized that sport he truly wanted to do as it turned out. Vegas gave Frank. More than just some much-needed amusement several days after his arrival in nineteen sixty seven he ran into a girl who lost all her money in the casinos. She was in desperate need of some cash for a flight back home. Frank offered to buy dinner no strings attached and as they started chatting the girl said something that grabbed his attention. She mentioned that she worked for a check design company. Frank started asking her questions about the equipment they used. And how they designed checks without hesitation. The goal revealed that the company utilized and tech camera and a printing press to create real checks. Frank was so thrilled with the information that he paid for her flight back home the very next day he went looking for the equipment she mentioned. It cost eight thousand dollars but frank was happy to pay up to him. It was worth the authenticity using his new toys. Frank was able to print five hundred high quality checks. That looked exactly like real checks because except for the fraudulent numbers at the bottom. They were before. Frank was using blank. Counterchecks that could be founded any stationery store but these new checks with specially designed and printed. Even if teller to scrutinize these forgeries. They wouldn't be able to tell the real check from the fake before he left Vegas Frank tested out his test copies by cashing them out in all the casinos on the Strip and gambling. Little on the side all in all he walked out of Las Vegas Thirteen. Nine thousand dollars richer almost three hundred thousand dollars today with these new checks. Frank felt unstoppable. And even though it was risky he couldn't help himself from making his way across the country to continue cashing them. The thrill of getting away with Khan was like a constant high. That frank was chasing and business was good by late. Nineteen sixty-seven Frank had amassed a fortune of five hundred thousand dollars. Oh three and three quarter million today. But Frank was more aware than ever that the cops were on his tail. He was convinced that the police and the FBI knew everything. He told Rosalie including his real name. His methods and his patents and is Franks Fortune's continue to grow. He realized it was only a matter of time before he was thrown behind bars. So Frank decided that he needed to flee the country for good. The only problem was that he didn't have a passport. But this was a relatively minor obstacle for Frank Abergnail. Junior frank decided it would be safer to get a passport in Mexico. He was able to get a visa using his pilot's ide- under the name Frank Williams. Then he made his way south. A customs officer would have easily discovered the five hundred thousand dollars in cash that lined his suitcase in jacket but because of his uniform he was waved through the border without a second glance after arriving in Mexico in late nineteen sixty seven frank befriended the local concierge at his hotel with the help he managed to get in touch with a woman who had pulled in the Mexican American Embassy. She was able to issue him a temporary American passport under his real name. Frank got on a plane to London that same evening but before he left he couldn't resist the urge to cash out some lost fraudulent checks in Mexico for a grand total of six thousand five hundred dollars. This ended up coming around to bite him now. In addition to the FBI the Mexican federales were after him as well but they wouldn't be the first foreign authorities to come after frank and within the year frank would find himself with warrants for his arrest in more than twenty different countries. Coming up the authority. Start catching up to frank. Abergnail junior now back to the story by the beginning of one thousand nine hundred sixty eight twenty year old Frank Abergnail. Junior had tried and failed to give up his life of crime. Several times he'd worked in a lawyer's office and even as a sociology teaching assistant for summer but after perfecting his check forgery technique and amassing a small fortune. Frank fled to London outrunning the authorities and ill-advised confession to a previous girlfriend as well as growing cache of evidence against him did give the authorities in advantage. But Frank refused to stay anywhere long enough to give them a chance to catch up. He knew that he should stop his scams. Settle into a quiet anonymous life abroad. But after a lifetime on the run frank felt he had to keep moving and in order to fund his travels. He needed to commit more crimes. It was a never ending cycle that he felt he couldn't break out of frank's habits of continuing the actions he knows could result in his arrest can be potentially described as an impulse control disorder a condition where people are unable to regulate their emotions or behavior examples of people suffering from this disorder include pathological gamblers kleptomaniacs and those prone to violent outbursts. But Franks actions seem to be more driven by what's known in Criminal Law as an irresistible impulse. This time is used to define defendants who know right from wrong. But still con- control their behavior long enough to stop carrying out their crimes. This may have explained why less than a week after his arrival in London. Frank cashed out even more fraudulent checks and fled to Paris. In no time at all he'd fallen into the same patterns. He established in the states and francs fakes getting harder and harder to detect right before leaving America. He'd gotten his hands on a real. Panam payroll check from a stewardess on his flight. Using this check a model he'd found a printer in Paris. Who could prince exact replicas now Franks forgeries could withstand scrutiny from even Pan Am Employees? Which meant a big payday for him soon. Thereafter Frank embarked on a tour through Europe. He hopped from country to country stopping in Spain. Italy Sweden Greece Turkey and Germany. Among others in each new place frank pulled many of the same cons perfected in the United States. He repeatedly cashed out expense checks as a pilot and open fake checking accounts but as he continued his crime spree. He realized that he was drawing suspicion by traveling alone. In the states it was common for pilots to travel solo between domestic airlines but overseas Americans traveled in crews if pilots were being dead headed in for a last minute flight. Back home they would most likely be locals. Not An American based three thousand miles away so in one of his most daring cons yet frank claims to have hired a fake crew for himself to give his pilot act even more authenticity returning to the states briefly. He allegedly reached out to the University of Arizona explaining that he was looking for potential recruits. He hired several junior students as stewardess interns title. He made up but that the women fully believed in exchange for their participation. Frank showed them the world he was even able to pay them by cashing fraudulent pan. Am expense checks on their behalf at every hotel. They Staden by the end of the summer. The Juniors returned to school with a lifetime of new experiences. Frank in the meantime continued looking for the next big score but something snapped in him. He realized he no longer enjoy the con- work instead. He was being driven by a pathological instinct to accumulate as much wealth and cash as he could and frank had so much of it he couldn't even spend what he was bringing in. It was flooding in too quickly. But more importantly frank realized that he needed to cool down if he didn't want to spend the rest of his life in jail so he decided to retire at the right page of twenty in early. Nineteen sixty-nine at this point in his career he had tens of thousands of US dollars saved up more than enough to live on. He settled down. In Montpellier in the south of France and because Frank's mother was a French citizen. He was already familiar with the language. The town's size was just right. It was small enough that it didn't have any INTERNATIONAL AIRPORTS OR TRAIN STATIONS. But big enough. That's an American with disposable income didn't attract too much attention most conveniently. His grandparents lived close by being palliate allowed him to visit them and served as an alibi to cover up the real reason he was there soon. Frank bought a house a car and attempted to settle down into a normal life. His taste for adventure had to be satisfied with small day trips hiking in the foothills of Spain or spending time on the beaches of France. He even started thinking about the future Pele either as a student or a businessman unfortunately for frank four months into his new life. Those dreams were cut short in the summer of one thousand nine hundred sixty nine twenty one year old. Frank was doing his bi weekly food shopping at the local markets. When he realized he'd Forgotten Carton of milk he set his basket assigned at the front so as not to block the other shoppers lined up behind him and went to collect the missing ingredient. He was standing in the back of the store out of sight when he paused sensing that something was off then he realized that all the shoppers that gathered at the stores front were gone in. The place stood four men standing by the checkout counter. One had a shotgun while the rest looked around menacingly. Frank immediately thought. The store is being robbed and ducked behind a shelf. Then one of the men yelled abergnail before he realized what was happening. Frank was surrounded by officers holding pistols and shouting in his face. They forced frank to the ground and slapped a pair of handcuffs on his wrists. Within the hour he was sitting in the Montpellier police station facing to interrogators. Who were eager to hear about Frank's exploits? Frank only learns later how they managed to find him a stewardess flown with several years before was off duty. In Montpellier when she saw him around town by this time. Pan Am had circulated pictures of frank alerting airports that he was a wanted criminal. The stewardess recognized him immediately and notified the authorities who took it from there now court frank was ready to let go of the Sherard. He confessed to everything and within two weeks. He was put on trial her his attorney's advice. He pled guilty and was ultimately sentenced to one year. In one of France's oldest prisons have Pinon at the time. Frank believed that he'd gone easy but once he saw his cell he realized how wrong he was. The room was tiny. No more than five feet tall and five feet wide. The only furniture was a bucket on floor. No bed no toilet. No furniture of any kind. And when the bucket overflowed there was no guarantee that it would be swapped for a clean one many times. Frank found himself sitting in his own feces with no way to clean himself in those conditions. It may have been kindness that the cell was also completely devoid of any light. Frank was in total darkness. Most of the time and within his first week he was convinced he was going mad. Finally six months into his sentence. Frank was taken from his cell and put on a train to Paris. He wasn't told where he was going. Or why but he was finally able to shower and shave for the first time since he'd been imprisoned eventually one of his guards told him that he being released from. Perpignan six months early but he was far from free. Now he was being taken to Sweden to be tried for his crimes. There in Sweden Frank was sentenced to another six months in prison. Although the conditions couldn't have been more different from papillon there were no guns no bombs wire or even weapons on the premises. In fact he found it to be so pleasant. That escaping never crossed his mind but while in Sweden Frank learned just how much trouble he was in all. His International Scheming hadn't gone unnoticed. In addition to France and Sweden the governments of twelve other countries including Italy. Denmark and Germany had made formal requests to extradite him at the rates. He was going the twenty one year. Old was looking at years in a collection of European prisons before even returning to the United States face justice and it would be there that he would receive his harshest sentence. Frank new some of these other countries were bound to have prisons as horrible as Papillon. In France panicked he begged the Swedish judge that tried him to send him back to the United States. Once he was back in his home country the other governments after frank lost their claim on him but the judge couldn't deny the direct requests of other countries demanding his extradition. Frank was beside himself the nights before he was to be transferred to Italy for yet another trial. Frank was brought before the Swedish judge. He explained that for several days he'd been grappling with francs case and while he couldn't defy Italy outright he could have francs passport revoked. This would give the Swedish government the authority to deport frank immediately back to America. Frank couldn't believe it. He thanked the judge profusely immensely grateful but even this kind act wasn't enough to stop him from trying to evade justice. The Swedish prisons had reminded him of all the luxuries that he would be missing while he was imprisoned in the US and as he boarded the non stop flight from Sweden to New York. He started thinking of ways to escape. Frank recognized his plane as a VC ten he knew the aircraft inside and out including the fact that the toilet hatch often opened up upon landing. Triggering an alarm in the cockpit but because it was a common problem. Frank also knew that the pilot would ignore it. Using this knowledge. Frank went to use the Lavatory as the plane descended into New York City. Then he waited for his shot as the plane hit the tarmac. Frank unhinged the toilet hatch and climbed in moments later. He was sprinting onto the runway from there. He hailed a to the Bronx. Where an old girlfriend of his lived. She loaned the conman some cash and by the next morning. Frank was headed from Montreal. The closest city where he kept a safety deposit box. Unfortunately Frank's freedom lasted a total of two days. He planned to catch a plane ounce at the Montreal apple to Brazil one of the few countries. That wasn't trying to extradite him but before he got his chance he was caught by a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. The officer recognized him from the photo in the warrant out for his arrest. After his grand escape frank was taken right back to America in April. Nineteen seventy one twenty two year old. Frank was sentenced to twelve years in prison and sent to the Federal Correctional Institution in Petersburg Virginia and once he finally stopped running. Frank took the time to reflect on his behavior. And what to do now. He became a model prisoner and applied for parole. Every chance he had after serving just four years. Frank was granted parole for good behaviour in Houston Texas and allowed to re-enter normal society. But once he was released. Frank had difficult time. Starting an honest life he found work the fast food chain and in a grocery store but he was fired from both jobs wants. His managers learned that he was an ex convict. Frank was considering returning to a life of crime but he had another idea helping. People protect themselves from the same kind of cons. He used to run. Frank pitched a security seminar to a local bank based on his experience on the other side of the law. His lecture was a huge success. And before long frank made a career for himself as a white collar crime specialist then in one thousand nine hundred seventy four francs insight proved so valuable that he was recruited as a consultant for the FBI. The same agency that had once chased him all over the globe today. Frank Abergnail seems to help far more people than he hurts. While repairing some of the damage he managed to inflict in his brief five year career but regardless of which side of the law. He's on. He remains one of the most resourceful and devious minds to ever dip his toes into the world of columns thanks for listening to con artists. We'll be back next week with a new episode for more information on Frank can nail amongst the many sources we used. We found his autobiography catch-me-if-you-can extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of con artists and all other podcast originals for free on spotify not only spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like con artists for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream on spotify. Just open the APP and type con artists in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time was created by Max Cutler and is now studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler sound designed by Anthony Val stick with production assistance by run Shapiro Collie Madden Isabel away and pull Marla. This episode of Con Artists was written by Liz derivates in with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon. I'm our stem Odin.

Frank Frank Abergnail Frank Williams Franks FBI Junior frank Frank Hawk La Frank United States America San Francisco Eureka forgery Bank Teller facebook Rosalie California spotify Con Artists
Patrick Head | Engineering the Greats

Motor Sport Magazine Podcast

1:29:22 hr | 5 months ago

Patrick Head | Engineering the Greats

"The history of my sports, the drivers of being on the front line of racing, but often that performance depends entirely on a group of engineers. And a special series we all going to speak to the likes of Adrian. Patrick heads and Gordon Murray by what it takes to engineer the greatest drivers in the history of all sports. Also we look at some of the groundbreaking technology brought to win. But we will delve into the minds of the best drivers. The sports the see. We hope you enjoy the series engineering former one's drivers. Hello everyone and welcome to the Motorsport magazine podcast. We've got another one in odds series called Engineering Formula One drivers, and we are joined by Patrick Patrick. Thank you so much for joining us for this and Jordan. The editor of major sport. My my pleasure, I, I did a little bit of research in terms of all the drivers that you looked after Williams and had driving for the tame. And I'm. Just pick one letter from the alphabet. S A check to Schenken. Schlesser Schumacher Ralf ads and Santa Bruno Senna Sirotkin Stroll. Number of foreign drivers. You've been involved win. Is Astonishing so. We're going to be able to concentrate on a few today and imagining an open with a reader's question. From Williams GP news. I didn't think anything to do with Williams but. And they're asking which Williams driver do you consider to be the best driver overall, and which one was your favorite to work with? Well I think it's inevitable that I'm going to say Alan Jones was This sort of favorite to work with because he was off I sort of outstanding and successful. Driver it's almost impossible to talk about the best We had a lot of fantastic drivers and Generally a as time went on. I suppose with a huge step in the Michael Schumacher days the level of fitness and professionalism, the the drivers had to rise to in order to be successful. changed a lot over the time It wasn't that I mean. If Alan Jones turned up at the track to test, he was only every time he was out on the car. When I'm not saying it was unprofessional. I think there is a picture of Williams of Franken Allen Jones sort of going off for a run together, but I think it was very much stage, because frank was a runner, but Alan most certainly, was not a runner. In fact, I don't think Alan like Texas is at all, but massive stamina I'm and I remember one time to test at Paul Ricard. we did nearly a thousand kilometers in one day, and he was pushing. Just as hard at the end is at the beginning, but huge personal stamina, but driving a grand prix car. Finishing off that fitness side is a very interesting. thing because you could have somebody like Khaki Rosberg, who certainly I think he thought I was quite a tough. Engineer but he was, he was a wonderful person khaki to have in the team but he didn't like exercise, either and he smoked, but he was able to drive a qualifying lap every lap of the race if he could get a sniff of being at the Front and yet you'd get somebody like Derek Daly who was very very fit, but used to sweat in. Almost you could imagine that in the car. His muscles must have been. Totally tents the whole time whereas khaki was totally relaxed while driving at the limit, so there's a big difference I think in the calories being burned in the cockpit by different types of of driver, but anyway let's put Alan Jones as a as a favorite and many fantastic drivers. The I'm sure it was frank, said Frank Williams said is light light bulbs. You just you just plug him in. Do you. Do you agree with that the? Off from an engineering side I. I I am not aware that Frank, I have seen that quote before and seen it credited to frank. I said it wasn't there where he said it I think if frank said it it would have been for some deliberate effects at the time, because was had very close relationships with the drivers. We hadn't generally got with them very well, so What impact he was trying to make that statement. I don't know Drivers human beings. like anything else anybody else and they all have foibles and I think Franken. I will probably criticized a number of times because with. Somebody like Allen who I mentioned a game from when we started Alan, didn't really need an arm round his shoulders at all. He was A self energizing if he didn't get done for long, if do if he was down a bit, he'd go off and have a few beers. And get rid of it Khaki. Needed that and I think if we didn't get the best Outta Khaki. It's because we didn't really understand that. He wasn't quite as robust as Alan Jones was mentally, but through time I think all drivers like to feel that the team is with them and is. Open to any not complaints, but open to any suggestions they might make the makes the car. Better will make their life better. Just picking up on that He. Can you remember what the impact that Allen Jones had on on? The team was when when he first joined. A, Named driver and relatively young team, did he did that affect how the team was? I'd say. because. Alan had won one race in the arrows. It was slightly fortuitous, but not totally he was. He was quite definitely. You know a a good line driver? Don't think anybody would have put him in as Grey Day at the time I took him on, but certainly a top end grade B would've been how he would have been CHARAC characterized and we talk to Y'all can. Mass came very close to signing. Can Mass we talk? Sadly to Nielsen, who was very interested as well and sadly, he became ill. And died soon afterwards, so that became not an option. Allen turned up high had one chat with him I'm not sure I'm sure he had other options but he was a decisive person. He didn't mess around He said Yup okay like this. They agree to some. Wouldn't have paid the. Bill, these days, but and boom. He was the driver and I. Don't think we I mean I'm sure we treated him with respect, but I don't think we thought we had a world champion coming into the team, but very early on. We realized we had somebody in the team. Who didn't mess about I mean in personality. They weren't the same tall, but Nigel was very much the same as Allen. You know if he was in the Com- Bang Helmet Dan hundred. and I think it shot in the team up in a big way. We were still in nineteen, seventy eight. We were still learning how to make reliable cars, and that was one of our problems ear. We didn't finish many races, but we were. We were learning that at the time. Looking through the sort of Williams driver history, it struck me that the your drivers changed a lot. There was never kind of run of three or four years. When both of your drive with the same drivers, it was a conscious decision, or is that just how the calls fouled throughout history? It's a long time ago. That I'm having to remain. On the thing, but it's some. I think it's just the way the cards fell I mean. In nineteen seventy nine, where we had clay regazzoni Sony who was a wonderful guy, wonderful person to have in the team, and nothing would have been better than to have continued into nineteen eighty with his clay, but the problem with Klay was he would qualify on average about second a lap slower than Allen. which would put him. Second third fourth row By twenty laps into the race, he would be lapping just as quickly if not quicker than Alan, and may be close up towards the end of the race, but I said to frank remember very clearly saying to frank frank icon guarantee will have the advantage in nineteen eighty that we've got now in the latter half of nineteen, seventy nine so Unless clay. Close up in qualifying. He's GonNa be qualifying mid to lower field, which is going to mean the problem and that's an. Call Roitman was. Pretty much at his wit's end with Lotus, because the latest seventy-nine had really reached the end of its life, because it didn't have any development, 'cause it all went into the Lotus Eighty and the Lotus at proved to be a bit of a disaster so. US was looking for an act. So it sort of naturally happened. They're going on beyond that. I think everybody. Everybody Williams is very aware of that time. His very aware that in the. Early two thousands. Or late nineties. When we had. A world champion or a regular waste race winner. In the lead car and brought in somebody younger in the other costs such as Dame alongside Alan process in one, thousand, nine hundred say Then those people learned the younger driver learned an enormous amount about how to go about their work from the older. Part of Williams fall from grace was when they ceased to recognize that fact turn sought, they could take on two young ones together and I think then they found because it's very difficult for the engineers teacher driver how to do his job. I mean it's not so much the driving the car, but how to go about their work in terms of getting the car somebody like Allen Process. It's not true to say he wasn't interested in qualifying because I know, but alum would would spend all of the practice running around on old ties. Lots of fuel in the car didn't worry at all, and yes, okay. When you took put some new Taza took the field I bang, he could do lap time, but. And the younger drivers all they want his new tasr low fuel the whole time so that they can impress people, which maybe is how they think they'll keep their jobs. Maybe the the older ones are just more secure in their job when Williams. Stopped having, one. Driver who could? then I think they not only went down obviously in performance on the track through the cause, not being said good, but I think also the continuity amongst drivers contributed to. The you mentioned some late ninety s and early two thousands, one driver who who arrived in two thousand dollars Jensen Now you know knows well champion. Back then there was sort of the you know the stories of his kind of partying, and you know the new Formula One life, but he was always very. Smooth driver. has been likened to Allen, processing things what all memories of him. I think we were very sad to see. Jensen move on, and unfortunately he went to Benetton as a time when Benetton were struggling quite a lot with both engine and car I wouldn't say in Jensen's first year that we saw an awful lot of the partying because I. Don't think we're probably frank. Did a deal where you didn't pay him. An awful lot of money say probably wasn't able to afford boatswain. An, partying a lot he was certainly a silky, smooth driver and I think you can tell I mean. We had the first year of the BMW engine, which was quite a powerful engine, but very unreliable in the first year I think we had fifty six unscheduled engine changes in in the two thousand, and those those were changes, not the usual change. Change from practice to raise on us after the afternoon, these were unscheduled engine changes due to a blow up or some sort of failure and yet we still finished third in the championship and I think Jenson qualified second or third SPA ahead of Ralf Schumacher. This is in his first year of Formula One well. You don't do that unless your Silky, smooth. At a circuit like spa, so he was clearly outstanding. We liked him enormously, but. The we had an interest in on Pablo Montoya. and. I think frank didn't. Think Montoya would be ready for Formula One in two thousand. I can't think why and did this deal with chip. Ganassi who was very happy to take on Montoya to do Indy and I forget what they have. Well how the deal was done, but anyway the deal was the we would guarantee that we would take Montag for two thousand one and that was sort of written into the contract so we were obliged to run Monte. Meanwhile we could salmon I think. He went out and won the championship in his first year or two thousand. And you certainly very quick and one one at. Indianapolis in his first year, which is pretty extraordinary so we didn't think we were going back as a driver. Montoya were certainly going to be exciting. but we were very sad not to be able to, but it was all tied up a bit. Earlier in contracts that Jensen went off and various times during Jensen's career There was talk again it. It actually went as far as a contract that had to be undone at a later stage for various reasons, that he was gonna come back to Williams but he was. He was a fantastic driver, Jenson out about it. These are some couple of readers questions here both from some Matt. Says thanks for coming on the show. I'd like to ask about Heinz Harald Franson. How close did you come to signing him? For the remainder of the Nineteen Ninety Four Season of Senate staff. And why do you think he underachieved Williams? It's always some. Slightly controversial this Wonka's people of obviously when we didn't continue with Damon Hill in ninety-seven after winning being world champion winning the Championship ninety-six it obviously you know. The team came in for a lot of criticism possibly rightly. But I am not aware. that. The. Herald was an option at the time that event and Senna's death I think David. Coulthard was already contracted with us for testing. Even Even up to the time at nine, hundred, ninety four and he was, he was quite young, but I think we had tested with him, and he was certainly quite quick so Mind, you We. As you can imagine It was a massively difficult time Sort of mentally I mean the idea of having somebody killed in one of our race cars. Whether it be off all tall, or whatever the reason was pretty shocking to everybody frank could be not in of et, and for a long time, and and was quite close to him as a person so it was a pretty shocking time i. don't think we were. Thinking about being that adventurous in terms of going out and looking for. A replacement driver, so it was pretty logical to go ahead with David, Coulthard and David. Coulthard was a very fine. Driver and actually won one race to in our car. I think that here So I don't think we looked at Heinz Harald. New in terms of driver choices. The went wrong. I can always slope my shoulders and say that would be frank. Frank was frank was certainly the lead decision makers where? Would concern. He would mostly asked my opinion, and I would give my opinion I think I was fairly instrumental in taking on Nigel Mansell because that went on for a really long time that was in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, four and I was. Desperately wanting to have a driver who had driven a good turbo engine breathe Reynaud engine in the Lotus and frank was talking to all these different driver, so I said Frank. Go with Nigel. He's driven An identity at that time Nigel. Was You know there was that famous comment by Peter War when Nargile had the accident and Monaco's so Niger was not necessarily that highly rated, but I was desperate to have somebody that knew what a good turbo engine felt like not for power. I'm talking about response and driveability all that sort of thing and certainly Nigel fit. The bill was in Truth Williams. Most, successful driver by Long Long Way Nigel one thirty one Grand Prix in his career twenty nine of them in a Williams, so he has to be hugely respected by all Williams people. I think speaking to Frank Dern in. Another podcast in this series. Nargile the great thing about Najjar was new when he was in the call, you were going to get everything out of what the Cauca- do, but he was quite a difficult character out of it, and did you often have managed them differently or do treat like aerial Dr? Arnn sink. I think I had a pretty straightforward relationship with I. Think I had a reputation deserve don't have been fairly robust, so there were a few times I had to give Nigel the series talking to But I think we had a very good and open relationship and I was i. get very very well with Frank Dernie and We've always got on very well, but I wasn't Niger Frank was given the license to express a few opinions by about Nigel in of a Williams film and I do not sit in that position Nigel could be difficult at times, but he was a driver very much to be respected by Williams and all Williams personnel because he was by far Williams most successful driver. Just to jump in on the on Nigel. He's physicality was important part of his driving style a at the time I mean. Did you did that? Play into your decision when you took him on. no, because I wasn't aware of his physicality when you I think Nigel is probably the same now, but when you if you. Shake hands with Nigel. You can't the fingers on your hands afterwards. He likes to impress his physicality on you right from the start. When you shake hands, he's immensely strong. And he had immensely strong upper arms and In fact he used to drive with a tiny, little steering wheel and You would have to be particularly with the 'cause before past steering, you would have to be mentally strong to drive a Formula One race car with the size of steering wheel that Nigel did, but I remember one time seeing an onboard camera film with Nigel driving and more so than I. Have Seen with any other driver. the speed with which he responded and corrected opposite law constrained up again was so fast. It was like a Blur I'm sure if you could slow down the film, you'd see his his speed of reaction, which was why he was able to go so close to the edge in wet and dry conditions because his speed of of. I'm not sure he's reaction. Speed which I'm sure, certainly good, but the speed of which he. Applied and took off. Corrective lock was incredibly quick. Are One time at SPA? When it was wet and drawing I, it must have been. Eighty, five eighty six anyway, but through right the first and second practice I remember for most one practice session. He was sick seconds, not one or two six seconds quicker than the second-fastest driver, and it was because the circuit was wet and dry, and he was taking all sorts of extraordinary lines, which he had abbot of doing in wet conditions keeping off the rub it in parts of the track to find the grip but he his passage from a wet bit to a dry bit and back again his ability to control the cavalry rapidly was just outstanding, meanwhile as suspect a certain amount, his bravery level as well. You know feud. Saying I'm sure it's going to be drier later, but Nigel was. He was he was a serious driver serious. You know I people always liked to put this sort of journeyman. Saying onto. In terms of bit like they did on Graham Hill relative to Jimmy clock, a little bit onto Damon, as well, which was actually lazy journalists because it was like carrying on. A sort of an idea from the past and anybody that saw Damon Racing Michael in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, four in Japan and beat him in wet conditions like F- like. Would have to realize that Damon. was a top top level talented driver. So but Nigel was. I think people corrected after time, but I would put my Nigel right in there with Preston Center same same level. Do the FW fourteen be? The! Speak to some people the he was saying that when you turned in, it was called to trust the call and Ricardo team struggled with that. We've never quite as quick as Nigel in inactive call. Do you think is bravery? As a drive, a really actually made that car in him just a perfect couple. Yes I do. Really I remember in I forget when they changed Silverstone's such the Beckett's instead of being. the corner that it was became. This combination of Ben sits there now, and I think it was either. ninety-one, ninety-two, th. They made that change. and I remember Nigel going run there and. Talking to them. Off the. One of the practice sessions and he was, he would just say. Oh don't worry Patrick. I've got another second in my pocket. It's it's it's just through. Adversaries of corners I've got to learn to trust. The car is said the call will do it or not, but I've got to learn psychologically to trust the car through there and when I learned it, he said there'll be another second because I'll be ten miles an hour faster onto the hangar straight and sure enough in the next practice session, Bang. That second was just just there and. He always was very. Pragmatic about you know there was never any macho for whatever people might have thought from the outside. There was never any. Macho impression in terms of. Certainly in his talking to me about saying you know, how brave was or anything like that, he wouldn't he? He would be pretty straightforward. You'RE GONNA. Remember he was quite experienced by that time. A lot of years of Formula One, but he was always pretty straightforward to saying. You know when I was very concerned that we weren't faster source something and he'd he'd say. Don't worry Patrick. Three course of a second there. He said you. You can improve the car half a second, but I've got another three course of a second, my pocket and sure enough. It was always there. The motorsports shop is currently offering exclusive ten percent discount to put cost listeners available. Available until the end of July you can get ten percent off a piece of Anthony Johnson art signed by Nigel Mansell himself. The piece is called in Act Williams FW fourteen be as also brilliant dvd on the birth of Williams and his rise to greatness for just fifteen pounds nine, thousand nine, simply go to the shop. An pulled ten at the checkout to claim your kind. I'm just going to. I'm asking another couple of redes- questions. There's one here from someone called Admiral. buzzards wonder whether they all real admiral, or whether that is more of an Internet name. Yes exactly. A. Couple of questions, but the second one from a personal viewpoint, which race driver was the best from an engineering point of view, and how much of a difference to that technical feedback to the team and the car. interesting one because. He was quickest or best setting the Colorado. It's An engineering driver. Well, we had a few drivers who thought they were? and. Really were only tickling the surface. They didn't. They didn't really understand. the mechanics, but Alain Prost was meticulous. But. It was all based on. Past experience of which he obviously had quite a lot by the time he came to us in one thousand, nine hundred three that caused him a lot of anguish. Because you got to remember, he was driving an active ride. Call the FW fifteen the follower on from the. F. W. Fourteen be and because it didn't behave exactly as he had been used to. It didn't have a front anti roll bar. It didn't have a rare anti roll bar. You couldn't change the roll couple on the car. You could change all sorts of other things. Might you could change the right heights around the corner in different stages the corner you could change the role the amount it rolled into the corner like a speedboat and things, but you couldn't change the relative roll couple on the system we had. And that caused. Alum, because he, his whole data bank of experience wasn't really applicable, so there was a lot of anguish for him through the year. And I suspect on the fact of the matter is because we only ran. ATN for. Very short number. We did the Brazil where he spun much. He's upset in the race. And then was it either one in Japan, where he was punted off by one of the Ferrari, drivers at the first corner I think. And then we went to Imola. Very sad event, but he was meticulous. He would not give you any comment on the car until he'd seen the temperatures he. I suspect he would have been the outstanding. Technical driver! Had we been able to work together for longer. But. Mostly the drivers were. That technical knowledge was just based on the experience. They built up from previous cars, and sometimes it was detrimental. Terry boots. Them was very fine driver that we one two three Grand Prix. But he had been at Benetton beforehand and the Benneton he'd been driving had. was run very very stiff. And with. Anti Roll. Boss stiffness is that you just couldn't believe that. was I stay. There were there were stiffer than the chevys could cope with so when he was saying. I want to stiffer from Dandy, rope. I'd have to show him curves and say Look Terry. You know you've got to ask me to raise the chassis stiffness by but so it would have meant that the call was ferry very hard work to drive because you have a call that stiff, it's flicking around all over the place and doesn't ride ripples without needing lots of staring input, and we tried very hard to get teary to run a softer car and he just wouldn't have it. I mean he he didn't. He won't eat it to feel like a go-cart and he didn't feel comfortable at all. It was softer and to give you at the end of Nineteen Ninety We took on Nigel Mansell again. And we went down to pull rijkaard. And at that time was Reynaud we were using the rent a garage. Record, straight and This was in the call that was the F. W., thirteen be and. Nigel had been with Ferrari for a couple of years One zero two years probably two years and He went out of the Renault get onto the main straight of Rickard and I wonderful thing when we were testing. They're on. You could hear the car all coral way around the track. So if you made a change that made it quicker, I could tell almost to the tenth of a second. How much quicker be from when he'd been able to get just listening to the car anyway? When daddy drove around, you can tell you is attacking a few corners quickly. And he came back, and he came in down the street, and then he backed off and came straight in hadn't even done a lap, he came straight into the garage drove up into the garage climbed out of the car. Came over to me and he said Patrick. Come over here. Sit Down on the take. And he said Patrick What are you doing? What are you doing? This call is undrivable. It's Eh and he said what the springs on the car. And I said well, they got this. On the front on the by, he said well divide that by three. What have we got anti robots on the car? I share more anti robot. What Role Raty was simple? Throw the rare one away, and let's divide the front roll stiffness by five. I we went onto the track by the end of that test. We were over three seconds quicker than we'd been at the French. Grand Prix on the same track beforehand by that. It doesn't mean it was a good call. The problem with that car is the front wing had separation problems, and it was so the the result from the driver was to. Set the car up incredibly stiff, so the front wing didn't move up and down hardly relative to the grand. Nigel had a speed of correction of his hands, so he could probably deal with that a bit more than. But he wasn't saying to me. The car is good, but. You know we we were running around with a car that you could actually see on the track so when you say. Is there a difference between drivers enormously but with Terry. we had one significant number of races not enough, but And but the car was just not being set in a way that it was drivable really. Now we must move on to sort of more of the engineering side of things. You used to start in the navy. But did you have people? Do you know technical all engines in formula? One that you looked up to when you're younger, and that's why you ended up in. The sports was a different reason to that. I don't think I was too aware of I. Mean my father raced? Quite successfully, he was a professional army officer. All are hardly ever saw him in uniform. Off to the second world, war, he'd be technical course equivalent to an engineering degree, and he was working in the war office and Stuff say like a commuter in a suit from we were living in sort of. What was called stockbroker belt? You know between woking and West by fleet, and He was racing then. I suppose that might of influence me a bit but I i. didn't we didn't get? When he stopped racing. We didn't have alter sports or anything like that in the house. I think my fascination was always with engineering rather than with motoracing. An intrusive, even when I. Had Left. The Navy gone through university and. WORKED AT LOLA CARS I was probably more knowledgeable more familiar with. Sports car racing or whatever Lola's were doing when I I got a call from Frank Williams. After I'd left Lola's. I had heard his name, but I hadn't been following formula on at all. I wasn't a fall. No on not a toll. So It was it was the engineering and problem solving that attracted me and I think all the way through my career. I've never really been that interested in. the you know the actual racing them. What you met Mike Hawthorne when you very young. I did you've heard that story up to nine hundred fifty eight after Mike Hawthorne had won his. World Championship. My father and mother had we had nice big house. Along what was called Woodham, lane which was from the woking six crossroads along towards by fleet and I. Think my father and mother always liked to party, and in fact, nine hundred and fifty s motoracing all the sort of Duncan Hamilton's the of sports, car group, and of course, my cawthorn. Racing Jaguars or whatever was sort of Pasta, that sports car group as well. Anyway they had a great party. Not In my call is just one of the people there was a party. They had at the end the year and the must've been lot of motor. People they're. Not so much Formula One probably all sports carbon, so I think my father retired at the end of ninety fifty seven, and I was ill with flu in bed, and I was making I was twelve, and I was making a Keel Kroft. CHIPMUNK! With a rubber band and propeller, and I had the board on my bed. with the gluing together, always Balsa Wood and Sometime during the evening, the door open this very tall, blond fellow came in, sat down on the bed and started talking to me about plans. He told me that he had a chipmunk, and he had a full glass of whisky and Soda, and he said to me With your cold, this will probably do good, so there was I-. sopping on a whiskey and a large whisky and soda and he said. He was he was. Fantastic to talk to. And he said that he got a chipmunk and tiger moth, and that he kept the my fair oaks. and He, said you WANNA. Do you WanNa go for a flight? I said, do I? You know yes, I. Do and he said well I'll I'll take you up in the in the sink. Probably it was tiger was gonNA. Take me up in and. Shows. How little one knows about the world? When Because? It was shortly to that. It wasn't many weeks after that party. Right at the end of fifty eight that he was killed when I heard, he was killed. I think I felt much more annoyance that he wasn't gonNA. Take me up his airplane. Then sadness because of B, but it just shows. How little at twelve year olds heat now you know about life, but yes now Mike Fed Mia most of glass of whisky and soda. The agent which I'm sure it did I'm sure it did Michael Good so I was sort of steeped in sort of motoracing, but say after my father a tide. AM until I left school. At school I was involved with somebody else, and we were going to build this hill climb car in the workshop with A. supercharged Norton motorcycle engine. Anyway, then we have. We never got to the thing of finishing S, I think we may have laid out some chassis, rails or something, but so I was always interested in the engineering side, yeah? The. You. You were involved in formula. One for for so long and still have a bit of involvement with Williams. The so many. Sort of engineering solutions that you came up with during your fulltime Roller Williams. The run either stick is that you're particularly pride of it can be the even the smallest thing that we've never heard over wouldn't have nine of items. Call or something bigger as an entire car. When I. Well, I mean there's obviously lots of different things in the part of the because I was. The initiator of the company with frank with frank, being the majority shareholder, but I was a shareholder in the company from a very early stage. And I always felt a responsibility. You know it wasn't you know. Look how clever I am. I'm going to do something really. Different and really new. Because you know, there were a few designers you know yes, we produce better and worse cars, but there were a few designers came up with ideas I the did succeed in breaking on nearly break their the company. always felt a serious responsibility to Produce a reasonable enough car. But. When I was at Lola's Eric Broadley. Who is really super super? Guy and very good I mean John Barnard I gather is gonNA. Come in and do a talk I'm sure he'll talk very highly of Eric Broadley who got on with John Very well and got and got John Involved in all sorts of projects. John was at Lola's a year before me, and But Eric, was he he? WAS he was thinking that suspension geometry cured all so he was always changing suspension pickup points, and at that time 'cause had. Long Lowest Burns, very short, top wishbones had to design the chassis or the or the rare suspension mountings come way out into the airstream and I didn't because I was trying to sway Derek. Because I'd gone to Lola's just after I got my engineering degree and. I don't think there were many people involved in motor racing at that time. Who got any sort of degree? You know who are reasonably strong on mathematical calculations and I was trying to persuade Eric that. The small difference in Kin- Matic's in his suspension geometry chains were minimal in comparison to the elastic deflections of of Some of the suspension mountings we had to design in order to. Find his his pickup points, but I didn't succeed so after I left. Lola's. I got involved in some cars and got rid of this all the stuff extending from gearboxes and mounted wishbones close in to the centerline of the car and I think I was probably the first person Doing that and I got rid of putting a CV joints board, integrating the joint with a lot of small stuff, but equally things like when we were with hunger in the early days with hunger eighty three, there was a lovely chat called. Alf Briggs who I'm sure is. Gone now, but he was from the motorcycle world, but he was Honda trusted and liked him and had done for many years, so Alpha was a an important adviser for them, and he came into my office one time right at the beginning when we first started with Honda and said this is a Honda. Motorcycle barrel I to. They're racing motorcycle and These are the sector Fox. Maybe you can use them somewhere in a you know that idea in in your form Lohan transmissions on I, said Hi yeah, thanks, health right, and then they went onto my window sill, and sat there for a better time, and then when a nice chap who is still about lives in Bristol John Piper came to work for us. I said to John. Let's have a look at doing a. Semi automatic transmission sequential transmission like a motorcycle, but I don't think I'm visage quite the potential for it. The thing is with the sequential the movement to actuate it Vira cable in the cockpit was simply four off, whereas in those days, you had to leave a lot of room for the you know the H. Gayton if you're using a six speed box or something you had two long way across had all these big bulges on the right side of the cockpit for the driver's hand. So with John Piper. I said well. Let's do this and we'll be able to put up to push pull cable in the cockpit. So he went have to put such a big bulge on the side, and with John we worked away, and we used a Suzuki. ESCAPEMENT! An up sized a bit and Based on this Honda. Barrel and I drew out A. Sort of test box just not to go racing with just a test box for it and then we had a chapel. James Robinson who came and work with us, and James in one, thousand, nine, hundred and six, hundred eighty seven was telling me that he thought hydraulic actuator of the gearbox would be the way to go and started designing, and actually did get made a gear case for the call with the move vows Monte hard on twitter and I was a bit suspicious about it because I thought hard mounting electrical pieces onto a gearbox which vibrates like hell, because of the straight cut gears inside I was very job is about it, so it never actually made the car. But then I think probably about the time that John K. my twitter his. Ferrari the was it eight hundred nine Ferrari, maybe ninety Ferrari, which had A. Semi automatic gearbox or paddle operated gearbox And that struck me as a really good idea, but I didn't want the way John had done it. conventional gearbox with a potential monitor in each select derail. To know when one guy was out again, and into the other one I think it was quite unreliable to begin with, but they got it sorted out in, so we did the first an, and in fact, the sequential barrel and using moog valves. had been done some years before, but we pulled it all together, and so we did the first sequence shoal of which everybody from then on started doing that way, then instead of the way that for Ara had done it, so the active ride program I, mean Frank I think between Franken I frank were on sort of our. As well as doing a lot of the races but he was soup. He sort of ran the wind tunnel program was supposed to be more. Working on rnd so I think it was a sort of joint. Let's have a look I think AP automotive products came along to us and said look. We've been working on this hydraulic ride system like a CITRON system, but with rather more control over the car but we've actually decided to give it up. It's too expensive for us, and we don't see a return, but we think it might be useful for you for your race car, and so we took that. And Frank did the installation for it on an F. W. O. Nine, and that must be eighty-five, probably early eighty five. In fact, it never ran for very long had a mechanical control system. What we call the nodding dog and. Very, basic but I think he blew a turbo up and the whole thing went on fan. I think do with the active ride, so didn't run very long, but he was persuaded us that that it was the way to go, but we needed electro hydraulic control on it, so it was a frank overseen project, and we got the electronics from a guy in America Nice Guy. It was very basic electronics, and we ran an active ride call for the first time monster eighty seven with Nelson. Piquet and he did actually win the race, but quite honestly the active ride was not at a level that justified racing at that time and. I think I think after nearly think Adam was running the active ride lotus actually but Nelson just beat him monster in seven. Them when we lost Honda which is another story that I went boy. You is We were quite determined that we were not going to be pushed down to the back running a judd engine, so we threw everything at the nineteen eighty-eight car, and it was basically a step to call the too far. It had active ride a trance I. gearbox. Oh, all sorts of things on the car. But it was a bit of a step too far, and we had to the problem one of the many problems. The control system was inadequate the whole control strategy was not adequate and I think frank must have left at the end of. Eighty seven. And by that time we brought in Steve Wide on hardware electronics and Patty low, but we kept develop. We took it out at Silverstone, Nineteen eighty-eight and converted the Carter passive, and I think Nargile, actually finished second in that race, which was a bit of a turnaround because we were struggling beforehand, but The the active road program. We came things interesting when we started it was all about trying to better suspension on the car. Thinking of the suspension, but in truth by that time we well understood that keeping the right height, low at low speeds, allowed exhaust blown diffuser to work out of a lot better because normally a car with normal springs would be quite high low speeds, but being able to run the car low at low speeds meant we had a lot more grip, and so we'd understood really the benefits of it by that time, so we did after thirteen active test car. Patty ran that test team, and then there was a big decision. We ran the FW fourteen in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, one had the gearbox been reliable at the beginning of the season. We would have won the championship that year, but it wasn't stupid. Simple thing that we solved it with was causing a problem but once we solve that problem. Nigel won a Lotta races, but at an beat us to the championship, so it was a big decision to bring the active ride car in because. We didn't want to be clever. Dick's and come up with a car. That was half a second better, but drop title half the races we will. Definitely we have quite sore of not winning the championship in ninety one. We were very determined to win the championship in ninety two and have been so we didn't enormous amount of work on reliability and We had people in the factory. Chapel David Lang who's retired from Williams now Chapman's call Simon Wells who was on the operational side who That was enormous amount of work done by many people to get the system reliable, and we raced through ninety two, and basically the same system through ninety-three as well. The the question, there are other things that claims. To go on, the thing was a Williams is. I think partly, and this sounds like being a bit silly, but you know I was. I was lucky enough to be born in a what would be in those days caller, nice, cozy, little upper class, home I went to a public school I was probably you know a self-confident, get but But equally as a shareholder in Williams I wasn't looking over my shoulder the whole time by people that might threaten my position, so I was really happy when we found people like the frank journeys. many people afterwards who are very good at what they did I didn't feel in any way threatened. So we actually had some fantastic people through our hands. Some of which I look back on I mean we had Ross Brawn who came to wolf as a machinist from. The nuclear play holiday how well rather then came to Williams in our prototype and test department, and it was only after he left Williams and went to. Force, and then went to arose that it became clear that he was much more capable. It wasn't that I tried to put him down. I just hadn't realized that how capable he waugh's and but we had a lot of fantastic people that came through Williams wonderful working environment, because all these people were contributing. And So a lot of the things I'm stumped for one moment think that I came up with all these things on my end we had a lot of people that came through a lot of whom contributed to many of these things. Which Frank Dernie was one of them. Was a conscious effort to create that sort of creative ecosystem whereby ideas were entertained, acted on, or or was it. Was it just an accident. I think. I realized we realized the being successful in Formula One, was technology problem, and therefore you had to. Push, technology and ideas. I mean. We were the first. Company when I worked at Lola's. Peter Wright had built was running a wind tunnel what was referred to as a quarter scale wind tunnel? It was a four foot by five foot, working section, an open flow wind tunnel the working section was of similar size or the same size as the Donald Campbell Tunnel at University College in which Peter I. tweet debate, ground, effect and When he was a lotus while actually when he was beyond him, but then took it onto lotus. But I was aware that the Jackson brothers who had specialized moldings that did all the bodywork for. for Lola's had this wind tunnel had unbolted it and taking it down. It was quite a big piece of equipment. For, the nineteen seventy nine. Oh seven. All of that car was based on a week in the Campbell Tunnel in October nineteen, seventy eight. And It was very clear that with a wind tunnel. You couldn't really do without moving ground wind tunnel. You couldn't really develop your car or even support rnd and design of you'll call so because I knew that. I, rang, Peter, Jackson, said. Have you still got that wind tunnel? You had that? He said yes. We have it's all unbolted out the back come is. Can we buy it and He He said yes. Eight thousand ponds severe eight thousand pounds. We sent up a low loader and brought this tunnel, which was quite a big, and we took on another unit in what was called Station Road industrial state in Didcot and built this tunnel up in there. It didn't have a balance of any order it didn't. Didn't have a decent drive motor I think it was up specialized. It was driven by a Volkswagen engine. We were able to buy Hundred Kilowatt Motor from Imperial College is income win stole that between Ross and frank and Simon Wells. They designed the moving ground, and we got that built between and frank was quite good on the electronic. We got a fantastic balance from a company whose name I can't remember from up above and frank installed the data Frank Dernie, installed the data acquisition equipment. And all of a sudden there. We had a tool in which we could. Find seconds a lap on the car, so we were easily. The first people do sere, certainly the first people to get into a movie to have our own moving Grand Tunnel Lotus had used the Peter Wright. A Lotta Seduce the Donald. Campbell Tunnel I think. Yeah, we were well aware that And we wanted to push technology equally we were. We were a bit techno geeks. Frank was a techno Geek. I was a bit of a Techno Geek so we. We love the technology. I was trying to extend the life of the Cosworth engine because people were starting eighty, one, eighty, two well from seventy seven. We're starting to run turbo engines. Every year. They gained one hundred horsepower, and we didn't gain anything so we. We actually got into an engine development program which Cosworth sadly refused to get involved with, so we did it with us. John Judd and at the time we started, our engines had four seventy horsepower, which was what the engines have time. Khaki was racing in eighty, two with engines Judd modified with ost. We had a chap that worked with US doing valve gear design. We had about five hundred forty horsepower from our engines, and this was just trying to keep the deaf e going. 'cause we couldn't buy a turbo engine from anywhere. So equally I got into doing a CVT with the idea of getting more out of the engine. 'cause you could. Could keep it nearer its peak power all the time. In fact, I think the engine life might have been a bit of a problem, but so we were into all sorts you know. We had CVT running in the factory on re-circulation rigs we were we were into. Where's it going? How are we gonNA stay up the Front? When all these you know Ferrari, we're getting into turbos. Well and BMW came in. You could see the way it was going, but we. We didn't find an engine till we met up with hunger in eighty-three. For any three pounds for three months you can get unlimited access to all of motorsport magazines content by online, and in print to sign up just to just won't magazine Dot. com for slash trial T. R. A. Al. it's interesting you mentioned earlier. It's saying that you know Eric Broadley and Lola. People have to be thankful for him, actually giving them up a foot into the world of motorsport. Williams is very much the same the number of big names that you've mentioned the stalls at that and went on, so you know big careers is is wonderful. You mentioned Honda then. I've got a question from David scarf and saying I'm very interested. Hey of us on your relationship with Honda especially in eighty-six and the fabulous w eleven. How do you rate that Engineering Prowess on? He goes on to say D-. Do you think Frank. Tragic accident had any bearing on that decision to withdraw their engines from Williams. Thank you for the Wonderful Memories, you helped to create in one area. That's a lot of questions in there it does. Through the. On that? was very interesting. Because at the time, we I got together with Honda They had been very successful in formula, too with wrong tarmac and think won the championship at least maybe two years in a row with their v six to leader. And engine was designed by. I'm probably going to have a bad effort is his first name New Beheco I think Kawamoto who had been one of the mechanics on low Honda. Happy canucks who had engineering degrees and been through Tokyo University, but he'd been one of the mechanics on the one liter formula to engine the one we little hair spring valve springs that Denny Hallman Jack Brabham very successfully enough forget the year, but sixties at some. Some point and by that time co emoto was a was a senior man, not the top man at that time that he was a senior man, but he was a bit of an INSOMNIAC, and he designed the engine during board that he had alongside his his bed at home, and he'd wake up in the middle of the night and the drawing, so it was very much a sort of hobby engine hugely successful that. Informed the two, and then they to take it, and then they went with spirits, think spirit one another. Championship with inform to. And then they decided to go onto formula. One, so they produced a short stroke version of that two liter engine. and. Basically, Spirit. Didn't really have the funding, and also they because they'd been A. Quite a small. Fifteen twenty person team they will really quite small it and really have the resources to get involved in doing Formula One, but they did run a car. which I. Think I'm not I think started one or two. Races, but I think in eighteen, eighty, three and I think early in eighty-three, three commotto realized that. Spirit wasn't going to get the job done and Honda. Had A good habit you remember how far away and how disconnected Japan was at that time from Europe and the rest of the world, but they'd had a very good relationship with Jack Brabham, and obviously because of Jack problem a good relationship with Ron Karnak, and it was wrong. Tarnak and Jack Brabham, who said why don't you go down to Williams and You know it wasn't US persuading them. Jack Brabham sadly gone now Ron. certainly getting on they. They said the Honda. You should go see Williams, and so by middle of the year. we had done a deal with Honda to do Formula One in Nineteen eighty-four and I was quite common. You know it was a it was a learning experience. You could not believe because the engine a block what would be called? A short engine turned up block with some point. Two cylinder heads no inlet manifold to now I think there were three in mantles in another cardboard box, high and low no exhaust system to turbochargers in another car, but box and no personnel, no engineer or anything it just turned up at a factory from a van, and so that time the communication was by telex. You remember the that chattering away down below in the Front Office Send them a message by telex saying, could you please advise for a heat balance for the engine Send US information on how many kilowatts we've got to dissipate in the into coolers and radiators and and tell us exhaust lengths, diameters, pipes, and things, and they came back still actually got the facts somewhere. pleased design as you think. So We were racing are. Eight see then. are rapidly produce flat bottom car because you got to remember what the school! The grand effect cars got banned at the end of eighty two battle between. Bernie and What was then fees? Are I suppose But So one of our Engineers Chapter Gary Thomas. Who is still very much about. He used to race motorcycles badly and come off the Murray, often including the island man so I'm always worried about losing him, but he sat down and thought he'd better learn. compresses and turbochargers and Things and working away on heat balance with me, dot again with him every now and then and we worked type for ourselves. What we need and we produced this very basic car, the w nine. It wasn't a beauty to look at but. And it wasn't hugely successful I. Think we won very surprisingly done to. If I say more than anything. I mean solely at Khakis door. We one in. Less Vegas. The whether track was breaking up in Nineteen eighty-four. But it was usually a question of how far we'd get for. The Pistons came out the exhaust pipe, because it still had sort of formula to Pistons in there and didn't have all the Piston cooling there was, but it also had an incredibly low compression ratio like six to one or something. So when you put your foot on the throttle. When the engine off throttled for bit, you had nothing I mean you might have. One hundred fifty horsepower, and then all of a sudden the turbos would kick in so how he drove it. I have no idea and we were having a terrible time in eighty four with. Society you have? Aluminium metal sprayed neatly done. The inside of the exhaust systems would be like a nice skin, and it would be the pistons the comeback, melted, form. So a question of how far we got, but we learned a huge amount and cover motor himself turned up at ZAN board, and he realized that the way it was being done because it was some of that motorcycle. McCain's a lovely guy called Hadji and sometimes they be taking these engines apart in it. I remember one time Montreal there were six of them three down one side and three down the other side, changing the bearing caps in the bearing shells on an engine at the track. Sue piddling cycle. WHO's very different, but anyway Komo's turned up a Zandvoort, and so this is we are. We are not taking this seriously and we're getting a bad reputation by. Not being reliable and from then on, he went back. And put on a very unusual Japanese and the chat very tall and very big called Yoshitoshi. Lovely name who is a very authoritarian project, leader and cat. SUMI ICHIDA was brought in as the chief engine designer, and it all started getting serious from then on, and you could see Didn't have huge impact in Eighty-four the time we got into eighty five. You could tell things were. Coming up in a big way and I think if you look at Montreal one, thousand, nine, hundred five in the W ten car. All of a sudden, we had the SPEC engine turn up and all a sudden we were reliable, and we had competitive fuel consumption, and we were a serious force from then on I think we won the last four races of nine, hundred, eighty, five to for Khaki into Mansell and. Then eighty six. frank had heard that khaki was going to McLaren around by Australia eighty five. And I think Katie had told frank, and it wasn't something he could persuade him to change his mind. It was a done deal. with Khaki at McLaren and BRABHAM's were in trouble because they done that lay down. Flat car and It was unreliable and not very quick so Nelson wanted I to Brab them, so it fits in so frank did a contract with Nelson in the car park in the car in. Austria and. Then at this test we were referring to earlier before the season sought in eighty, six frank had a bad accident broke. His neck was in a hospital bed for. Pretty much all of the earlier part of eighty six I think clinically died three or four times and Ginny. Frank's wife was being advised to let him go, but literally. He owes the rest of. His life then for her because he kept filling his lungs with. Liquid and she would jump on top of him. Pump his lungs out, and whatever and the doctors were saying to let him go. Let him go. And she refused, and anyway so there was no frank at all and we were going out racing, and all of a sudden there was Nigel not always, but some of the time beating Nelson so Nelson. A I was. Being told that Nelson's Contra Nelson said to. Sheridan sin sadly gone now, but my contract says I'm the number one driver and must have priority so I said well. Can I have a look at the contract? Read through the contract? It didn't say that anywhere in there so Identikit even said that he would have the spare car, but anyway it all got Frank Nelson went down to frank in the hospital bed when he was literally croaking. Obviously everybody looking after their own interest knows who was saying Frank Franken. Was On these. Pipes going into his nose, and whatever anyway frank called me to his hospital bed and said I was to give Nelson priority treatment, which was quite difficult because here we had Nigel. Seriously competitor to Nelson, so I think from then on Nelson had the spare call with him, but we didn't. Deliberately, you know. We basically ran all the cars same. Nigel's through his speed was often beating. Nelson we then went to the loss. Grand Prix of the year we'll get onto a seven hundred minute thing and We had had three or four ties explode. intesting earlier and I've been talking to goodyear and say look. The problem is ties are just not strong enough, and they had said nobody else having a problem. It's New Yorker I simple look. We probably got more power than anybody else, and I'm able to trade that off with more downforce for so all we're doing is you are seeing the problem with us before you say it with anybody else and I have to say they would not really very responsive. And then we had the tire explode with Nigel. and. That put him out. Then Nelson was in a position where he was going to win. The World Championship and I was in a position where I could see the Nelson's ties before the end of the race We're going to be beyond the life that Nigel's ties. I couldn't guarantee that it was gonNA. If it was gonNA burst, it was going to burst in a place that was going to be benign and he wasn't. GonNa hit the wall so I called Nelson into change ties I didn't need to. To change them for the life of perfectly enough rubber on them to finish the race, but I called Nelson into an I was sort of on the pit war, obviously in charge to be fair Nelson. He never ever criticize me for that decision. He came in changed win again. He close right up on our process was any two or three seconds behind by the end of the race, but processed won the race I had to fly up to Japan to Honda after that. We'd won the constructors championship. And but hadn't won the driver's championship. They were pretty gutted. I got a sort of dressing down from this Yoshitoshi Sakarai. Komeito is very clever. Because he was always the nice one and Yoshitoshi was the tough one, and he would keep the two separate. They've never been in the same room where you're. She talks she was trying to give me a hard time, but They would definitely very concerned about staying with Williams with frank because they couldn't see where the leadership they they knew I was the technical leader and had been beforehand, but they didn't know the business leadership would be because frank was still pretty weak later in the in the even later in the year and Anyway, we went on into eighty-seven I should have I think frank came back, and he was you know. Frank was fighting his own battle of getting back into it. and sort of prove to himself proved to the outside world that he could still run the business side of the team despite being in a wheelchair. I should have sat down with Franken and say do realize. Frank Honda are not happy about you. You go to find some way to keep them happy and. McLaren had done a deal with. They were very impressed with that and sunny remember eighty seven hundred been supplying lotus with the engines in fact, finishing off getting on a bit too long on the subject, but is an interesting one at the end of eighty six, when I'd gone up to Honda I went into this meeting, and there was zero. Do crews from? Loaders. Lovely man with imperfectly well, but. He had been sort of blowing in Honda's air, telling Honda the. You know the. In a Lotus, they would easily win the championship, and they blow Williams away so to speak. We were working on designing. I've been talking to this Chap Katsumi a cheetah. For the whole of the year beforehand by the height of their engine, because they all filter was actually underneath the crankshaft, flat pack underneath the Crankshaft, so the engine sat incredibly high in the car, and we I think it was something like thirty thirty three millimeters or something the we could lower it and You know of any of you love with the engineer lowering the gearbox as well so I was, and I work type that the worst thing you could do to say to Honda was tell them how Cosworth did it because it almost would like to go up, so I was trying to put across to them that they could use the the. Air Being twelve around in the crank case by the crankshaft to sweet, the all into a channel, which would then scavenge out of it when I went to Honda at the end of eighty-six. Cheetah call me in, and said come and have a look at this and there they were. Rig with a low SUMP, which they cut in shot with welded aluminium some, and with thirty two thirty three millimeters lower, I thought. This is great because we were already assuming that it was going to run, and we were designing much lower. Car which would have been the FW twelve, not the one that ended up with a naturally aspirated engine radiate would have been the appropriate twelve and bloody do rouge. He'd said to them I. Don't need a lower engine. We can win the championship with the engine as it is Honda didn't want to produce two different types of engine. They wanted the engine to be the same for. For the voice they said to me, I got on the fine, but do cruise was and Senna was the golden thing at that time, so my word didn't cut ice, so I was very pleased when we blew late us away with the same angel, and then nothing against center, I mean they did win some races, but from about the middle of the year or maybe. from about the middle of the year. I think it's Silverstein. When Nigel beaten Nelson I think Santa was third, and he was overlap behind so it was it was very strong Williams well ahead of Lotus, but anyway so and that was the one that went to McLaren for the low Gordon, obviously done the low had problems. He was influential in doing low car, and the low engine was the was the one that went to went to McLaren but I think It we won at Monza. and. When back and Honda said they wanted to have a meeting and this quite tough fellow sack. Your is, said McLaren again to be all lead team next year with Alain, Prost and Senna will oversee with those two drivers. They were going to be an Honda. were. Quite rightly. If, I say in love with Senator I mean in. Huge admiration. They had threatened center for good with good reason. And it was and we were told. Your Theron Nelson Piquet and. Nakajima. The! Consumers Dad. You know and He was a perfectly possible driver, but it basically meant we had no chance in the constructors championship so Franken I sat down. We talked about it. He said sadly. We're not. We're not going to openly accept a position. We already had a contract for one thousand, nine, hundred, eighty eight, so they. They said we're GONNA tear it up. So. It was pretty tough. It was very tough, really and They! said that's it will supply. We'll. We'll fulfill our contract with you, but only with Nelson. Piquet and. Nakajima. So it would have been meant saying goodbye to Nigel I think we had a contract with so it was very complicated. Meanwhile, it felt livesey because there we were winning everything beating their other team and I'm being told that they weren't going to be with us the next year, so it was it was fairly on happy but that was it they the thing is. They really needed us in eighty, three, eighty, four, eighty, five when they were. Miles away, but but then they were innovative, five eighty six, they were caucus. Norton had a very high opinion of themselves, and it'll be interesting to see whether that happens. that happens this time, but meanwhile. Three years later when? will probably bit more some years later when Cao Motor retired. He said he wanted to come and We always got on. You know when we wanted to go out and I think we had one call with a running engine or something. They always give us a help with that. We didn't. They'd you don't make? Total enemies in this world. Unless you're you know you'll end up with no friends at all so and Cao Emoto. Came and had lunch with Franken I in the boardroom when he retired and stuff. So you know we got on well with them it was tough time in eighty seven latter half of eighty seven. I think that's qualifies is the most comprehensively answered question ever on Emotional Amazon? It's a very lucky re to that who've writing without question we? We were of time about twenty minutes ago. so, but what I'd love to do. I'd love to finish with Do a quick gave Word Association so I'll say some names to you. And some phrases, and if you just say the first thing that comes into your heads, not show answers. bleep them out some of the swastika. Audio Gurus phone along mid podcast. You'll be able to manage that so far far away. Okay, we'll start with Frank Williams. Passionate? Love of motor sport. Love of The the whole process of of racing cars. Not Very knowledgeable about. The cause themselves. But Total determination and Will just total love for measuring. A junior. Obviously, technical very. Hugely capable of aerodynamicists. Crossover into what the rest of the call required for Amex, actually very competitive, individual himself, which translates into his determination to be the best on the drawing board as well as we used to go karting sometimes in the evening, not just Adrian an I, but you know team karting and Adrian was always hugely quick, but it was just a question of which happened. You'd come across him facing the wrong way. He would always who always ultimately end up in spinning. Off But he was, he was quick, but over. I think he's become quite a good driver. Now in these types is his GT forties, but at that time I think his. His desire to win was ahead of his skill. Now before we go onto the next question I should remind you that we have a major sport shop that is absolutely packed to the rafters with signed memorabilia, posters, books, models, and everything you could ever want from the world of motoring, or might just bolt have a look at municipal magazine? Dot Com for slash shop. What's more as podcast listener? You get a ten percent discount on everything in the shop this valid until the end of July, and please use the code P.. D. Ten, that's that's pod ten. ADDS Williams today. Sad. That's a little unfair because. There are some fantastically good people there. For various reasons. Without necessarily wanting to say that the people bad, they they. have had a stream of technical leaders who some of whom had skills? But have not been appropriate for leading a company like Williams and steadily they leave When you look at it, they're you know. Oh struggling to stay alive at the moment on I think in truth I mean Claire has done very well in putting together a significant budget for this year, which in the light of two years finishing tenth of ten. The thing about Formula One is there are no bad teams in there, and you can sit on your safer with your tens of beer, watching the Grand Prix and throw rotten tomatoes at Williams at the back, but actually. All the teams in Formula One are very very good. The problem is when you're ten ten. It makes you look very very bad and quite clearly you cannot run a Formula One team commercially finishing ten thousand ten consistency so for this year. It's very important that they get back in the hunt I'm not naive enough to think that they'll be battling with the top three teams, but I hope that they will be. In Amongst What would be called the mid? Field or the lower midfield, but then from there they've got to work their way back in an upwards There are some good. Good engineers there they I would say they do need. A or some technical leaders as you probably saw nine spent yesterday before maybe they've taken on a very good guy from red bull and a good guy from Reynaud meanwhile. I'm not suggesting there are some good guys there, but they need technical leadership there. And then, finally, we'll finish on Patrick. O. Coming must be more interesting than that, but did you you? must it back with great satisfaction as with your career in Williams? Actually. The Opposite Really, because will end on a happy note then. Okay well, actually you. I was always you know you go to a motorist. You know for a long time we were. A front running team, and you go to her motorists with the intention of qualifying first and second, occupying the front row the grid. And finishing first and second in the race, quite a lot of the times in various periods of Williams pass. We manage to do that and anything less than that. I always regarded as a failure, so I don't Thrash my back with Birch twigs, but I don't look backwards on I've I look at an old car. I'll I'll say well. Why didn't we do better than that? I didn't look at it. you know one or two of them were maybe slightly ahead of their time and and leaders, but I don't look back on it with huge pleasure, and without elaborating on it at all of the events that Imola in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety four was a terrible thing to happen during that time, and obviously that gives. No satisfaction so I. Don't you know I I've got a young daughter and quite a relatively young wife. Two older kids that I get on with. My life is much more around them and getting on, so I don't look backwards. Wake up in the middle of the night. Sweating with regret, but I really look back thinking. Why didn't I do better? My grandfather actually wrote an autobiography which I probably will never do, but he called his autobiography no great shakes. If. I write one. Maybe I'll adopt his title. Well, it's project has been an absolute pleasure hugely fascinating. and. I think all of us here in everyone. Listening and watching will disagree with your thoughts on your career. But thank you for joining us has been absolutely wonderful Joe. Thank you so much for being here I didn't think he's recording. Thank you all for listening and for watching. We'll see you again soon by.

Frank Williams Nigel Mansell Niger Frank Williams frank Patrick Patrick Lola Ferrari Alan Jones Franken Allen Jones Honda Japan Grand Prix Nargile Frank Dernie BMW Eric Broadley
The Greatest F1 Team - Team Principal

The Autosport Podcast

25:58 min | 6 months ago

The Greatest F1 Team - Team Principal

"The greatest one team. Hello and welcome to the final part of what is being a very special seven We've attempted to answer the question. What with the lineup of the greatest F. One team look like from Race Engineer. Team principal lead to lead drive at chief designer and even the ready coveted number. Two driver's fault we've set out to build an F one team made of the best that has ever been. Iron House panel made up all of our F. One experts from across the globe have all pick individuals throughout history. That they believe are the greatest of all time and in this series. We've been discussing the careers under winus of the individuals that have made it into the top three for each joke role. I'm jess highest. And today I am joined by James Allen John Noble then Anderson and Rebecca could so I reckon everyone but want to be a team principal given the past anelle disposal but what does the ideal candidate need to be good at? What makes a great team? Principal STANDOUT OVER. The key thing is just being all areas. You can't just be strong in one area. Econ speak to get in the sponsors in. Just be good at managing the drivers. You conscious be good at dealing with the politics you need to be there across all areas and keep things under control And I think all our a top three team principles all delivered this their most accessible peaks of their careers They've will lead from the front stood out in the crowds and they've all proved to be moss strike in winning championships. It's unbelievably difficult to win in formula needing to win World Championship. It's been when multiple world championships is. All three of our finalists of dom is odd. Takes an awful lot of them because it's like it's like a bar soap. It's always on the move. He's just keeping hold things in an someone wants to lead. This wants more money in that drive to keep a winning team together is really hard and then to motivate them to win again and again and again even though it might look easy for me. Outsca IDAHO YOU know. These teams winning multiple Welsh Car Course Are But just having the best just having the best drive of getting to that? Point is unbelievably difficult. So I think that's why it's been good that you've signed this to the last of the series early. Because this is the ultimate row because Ev Fountain at everything comes from the team principal younger I team principal. Younger right designer. The right drivers in anybody people don't want the team with the right team principally they on the the team so it's it's fundamentally important massively difficult to do. Well let's look at the passing. We find in third place as voted by our panel of experts from around the world. And it's going to be one of the most iconic names in Formula One. That still carries his name to this day. That's of course Steph. Frank Williams who founded the team his own team in nineteen seventy seven and was celebrating the first win two years later at remarkably US drivers and constructors well championship in nineteen eighty. And they want to be the last of his winds. He really is emerges sport legend. Isn't he yeah he's He's lost of the MOHICANS. The among our our shortlist echoes. If Chapman far came before oversee he competed against a guy who's founded a team from nothing. I started by entering customer. 'cause then decided to strike as a constructor. He was much derided early on in his team cooling wanker Williams but he pressed on forced amazing partnership with Patrick Head. That team to the very a. You could argue that you know as time has gone on. Williams's obviously declined incredible success Through the nineties recapture the glory as with BMW in the two thousands maybe some strategic decisions when against them. I should frank given up more control to allow seem to modernize but you have to hand. It in. His team is still going and night. Chapman's tain latest STA- declined in his later years Ferrari. Before his death they went going through the best of times. It's very hard to stay on top as change saying earlier even to get to. The top is extraordinarily difficult site. You have to hand Frank Williams. He's probably not the guy you'd you would want running on modern great steph form team considering that Williams has been in decline for a while now and they have won a race in two twenty twelve. And we've only won one since two thousand and four but nevertheless the legend Formula One. Somebody that we should definitely acknowledge that Frank Williams is not only a fantastic principle. Listen example of the termination because Rennie stocked to follow his dream. E was not a very good condition. E E bill this team from the ground so it was not easy to start so yes to do a lot of problems because was not easy especially the first couple of years but the way you build the so big company into mortal sports fighting with the big factor because of course they time also providing wasn't while the doctor will feature was is an example of patient. When you when you're really believe in something and you spend all your entire life to follow your dream. Sometimes you sacrifice everything our new also there that the human relationship because you out totally folk who said when your target for me. This is an example for a lot of people and I think now is more difficult to find the person that every time is ready to risk himself everything just because he want to to to see his dream realized in the sporting the target that the achieve was absolute Testing I think the number of people might be a little surprised. That is not wrong. Dennis rather than Frank Williams. I think it's seems class finding the balanced decision of this wide level. Our F when experts from across the world. But I think for me what makes Frank Stand up a Ron? Dennis is one of the points That which is he used. Determination outside apples that resilience solvency coming back from his nineteen ninety-six road accident to then. How will the success to be had but I think it also speaks about the way that he built a team. In how empowered the team around it mentioned actors fundamentally Off of the success of Williams. I always used to say Ron. Dennis was the best and worst thing about McLaren because we such a big personality. Sat Dad. You couldn't really get away from that wears with Frank Williams. It's I think the fact that he was sort of Sorrento had multiple phases of success which which is difficult every extended period of time but those are the fact that people have bathroom empowered and he's organizations than they were in Rome. Dennis is in my is why he made the two thousand three and runs Frank won't be running on pavement. Fortunately and nor will the current FAA president. John Todd now. Obviously Ferrari has always been a high pressure environment and that hasn't always lead to success and before taught became team. Principal Ferrari had gone eleven years without a constructors title and fifteen. Without a driver's he built the team that would go wants dominate the early two thousands. Just how did he turn that around? These friars ruled viewed as united. The Shoemaker Gloria's and brilliant job Michael Jordan but actually it was all the results of what Jonathan to turn for around scared of the old. Furry mentality come into this. New reactive racing team wasn't straight straightaway didn't come easily difficult early years trying to turn things around and get them going but once he hit his stride once they got but Dream Team's cover of Schumacher Ross brawn. Rory Byrne John Todd you know they pushed on and paradorn an a brilliant brilliant era Formula One and three John was a brilliant team principal roofless times unpopular times but three all is number one focus winning And the end of the day is your drop as team principal. The number one responsibility is victory. The rebuild challenge that John Leads to. Diaries is not to be underestimated when he went that they didn't have a gearbox departments in. Marinella informant while it was in Surrey so I mean there was so much work to do. I'm in bed. I was watching biography. Michael Schumacher. John gave me a lot of a lot of times and he was sort shining around it that before. He got that if you like. And he said it was like kind of creaking old building that has some wonderful architectural features but basically ahead interiors just needed to be completely refurbished and essentially what he did Starting just after his his run of success. Excuse me with pleasure and building the team up for MEG. And then putting the right pieces in place obviously Michael Schumacher was a fundamental Came along in nineteen ninety six and then Ross Brune in nineteen ninety seven alert. They added some extra personalities. That was Kinda cool about team. The way they operate it was on a Fair so the principal figures. Todd ruin the shoe Mecca Montanelli but none of the wanted to let the other one down and it was just this e credibly intense so to grew a leadership group. The top of which Schumacher was definitely off the meant that they will always always always striving for that extra few percent occasionally them across the line carries neither. Do some things that were not particularly popular. Whether it's t motors decisions. Some strange stuff. Lighten Black Flags and so to get out in the steward's removed was kind of thing but they will absolutely bang up against the limit of what was what was permissible de. Never wanted to let each other down. I think that's what made that team. So so unbeatable. I think that quarry that are two points that might be of the coupons for the success of jumped out the first one that he was able to choose the right people and When each as you said the sproul cash market Audebert that that was very top-class in slow the second one is that e the responsibility over everything in Maranello that was a big risk because in case of bad result of course he was the first one that still be fired but he said I am the team principal. I am the boss and the everybody must follow Meyer. That is not easy. Ferrari because there are a lot of politics in the history and it's a very crucial I think that the is the only way to run properly for if you want to run property you bus heads. The complete control of the debt was John. Paul was able to have it to able to establish a new culture a long established team which is extraordinarily difficult to do especially when that team has gone through a long period of failure in an underachievement. I think he can make a really really strong case for being the number one choice for fifteen principles ferry very close. Run thing A great hit rate was almost a hundred wins. I think in fourteen seasons there you know he set the template radio think for being a modern team principal in charge of a monolithic organisation hundreds of people disparate departments. Trying to bring together while dating with politics an issue in the final reckoning. Hold against him the fact that he's in charge of Ferrari to have special standing within the school had a veto with the rose. Will these kinds of things and of course when route changes did come up to threaten Ferrari's again? The the two thousand point they did they did struggle and didn't quite recapture their their former glory. So he couldn't. He couldn't renew the team really having established that dominant runways she mecca at Towel. But nevertheless you make radio strong case for I think if you WANNA join analyze what is specialty was Roberto saying. I think it's that commitment Incentive was was sort of the ultimate example of commitment is a racing driver things. The same is true with talk to whoever is working for whatever badges got on his shirt whether or whether it's Ferrari whether it cepheid today would go through a brick wall so that organization. He wasn't the owner Frank. Williams was the name of the. He was always an employee but he was employee listening. Would go through a brick wall to achieve what he wanted to achieve him. That's what made specialist team principal. But that's not quite enough to lead our team because our team principal is actually betted towards run of five consecutive drivers and constructors titles. And of course we're talking about a satin. Mr Toto Wolff Mercedes is now one the past six championship doubles anti-thai Wolf has been the man seeing all and a k. the team took advantage of the new power unit. Regulation twenty fourteen but through all the rule changes since then nobody can seemingly managed to end the run. So what makes wolf just so don good? I think it's the way the way the championships have on from each other. New Challenges overcome all the time when when the titles one in two thousand fourteen People put it down. Oh the best engineers by far the best. This is why they wanNA talk little bit. As the years went on as the rules were changed. Is the challenges. Came up of drivers of new era rules as just got better and better and better organization No complacency Taito management style has allow people to flourish Kept the team very very consistent and the best people And I think those those qualities ability to harness people. He's got much in the right way. get a very unified team. Is I think just put some above the rest right now. What surprised me a lot. Is that Mercedes? Looks like a magic box. I mean game sale is on was fired by Ratty Andy Mercedes is doing from dusty job. The same had been sweet out. Costar was the Cincinnati fighting by fanatic. And then he must see does he. Different dusty jump. What surprised me. A lot is the relationship incitement. Cdc's disease from Iran lease ward where people is constantly and oppression. But I think don't talk. Create the system that the for me. It's difficult for space difficult to understand. But he create a system where the people is the condition to give this one hundred percent. We doubt politics and without stress. That is something that consent you to reduce New People into the place people but we know effect in the result is not one main show e create. The system that for me is the best quality at the best part of the job. That thought did the last ten years. He's got this line. I don't know how to design Surface but I know everything about the guy who does. I think that's exactly right. He goes back to what Ben was saying on about culture of see told had to come into Ferrari adapt a longstanding coach to be what he wanted it to be sort of an iron fist whereas with toto obviously Ross Perot lovely establishing work building up that team from bridging from home. A broom into early diocese. But what hotel did and when you get a chance to cover these service. Cd's and talked to him about it. He's April combination about modern psychology German military tactics and all sorts of other things together into this management style. Whether is a no fare coach? You know they don't blame the person. They blamed the problem that the nonsense that everything an everything that they do. They just do it better than everybody else. Now if you look at times in how he's aged how he's gone over the last six or seven years it's taken a lot out to them and that's why it's interesting at the moment to see what he's going to do next and how much longer he'll carry on doing this full. Because he's obviously ultra high achiever. But what else does he got left. What else do ambitions contain an? I'm fascinated to see that I think it was very close between him and solve this crisis referencing principle but just the creation the shit depths of of culture. I think he think the only criticism you could probably level types of is that this thing that James Lead to that. He kind of inherited the team in a way that taught didn't up that sent. He also supercharged. Mercedes through the hybrid arena. He's made much more of what is there. He's created this culture as we said of FEHB also have accountability so every employee there is is able to express how they feel about how things are going without fear or favor and they can attack legs. Problems unimproved the fact. They've been able to sustain they rom. Three to significant rule changes over the last few years may not that some precedents is far as we can see and his hit rate of success beyond the fact that he's got the stakes and six compared to five and five. Mercedes one something like ninety two races in seven years with taught at the helm you know. That's that compares to talk winning a ninety nine fourteen years so incredibly efficient in terms of winning and he'll say manages it with the other things you know he's he's good on the politics He's a good front man for the tape. He manages the commercial side. He started that team in a way that makes it not too depending on the parent company. Daimler I it. Sustainability and another key thing is that he's been able to get the most out of historic driver Lewis. Hamilton Lewis is better bathroom better with Taito at the Hellman. Lewis speaks really highly of title. As does James Allison him as the best boss. They've had in foam and that speaks volumes. The other thing about wolf is that he doesn't have a background. As a manager he was an investor many was sheldon Williams. He got the opportunity to become a manager Obviously he's had to his management style in the job from the get-go winning world championships where we'll see John had many many years Managing Persia teams etc etc. Before that and I think that's the most remarkable thing about about such a wolf is he. He told himself to become manager literally whilst winning his also had varied experiences dealing with different types of Dr Relationships. You know you've had the the equal number ones of Rosberg and Louis where you're trying to control to drive coming through championship. Who are totally loggerheads? We each other dealt with the controversies. The Monaco Escape Road Instagram Nikko. The Spanish Grand Prix in two thousand sixteen when the Pack Alighted Subsequent Collisions. He's dealt with a lot but he's also managed to utilize the arrival of protests. The facts made Lewis a bit more comfortable and rather than allowing Louis to back off against your comfort zone and not be a strong. He's actually used it in a way of getting more of Louis had that long winter chat entitles kitchen where they went through their relationship while they fought each other is lifted. Lewis to a new high. And I don't think we've seen Louis better than he is right now if we could put it down to one thing or is it simply a the fact that he seems to hold many skills. But I'm really interested to know if you have to pick one aspect of titleist pass or management style that puts him head and shoulders above the rest. What would that one element Bay is apply colleges? He knows perfectly out to approach the people in a different way and that is a very good quality especially run would have to to what a lot of people every people is different than Eat knows how to approach everything. The best where everybody in the best way and a the same time and other big quality. I think he's able to predict the future so he I think at the moment is the best team brings Because E is able to know before all the rest of the field what is GonNa Happen? This is not a very good quality. For increase to human psychology side. It comes to most of having significant intellectual. He's very very bright like any. He's never satisfied with anything. He's always trying to learn some more senior situations where he's drilling able for information about how they manage this situation. You know the people from op spend time with him. Brian for the event ones the boss of the cycling this one older Toda Francis and he was drilling in for information about how keeps the team on the bubble in always ready to go again so the next year? So the phones. So it's just that relentlessness I think is wall marks out any great in our sport whether you're a driver or MSCI mechanic aura. A Race Engineer. You have to always be seeking mall. They have to always be relented to see looking to improve yourself and everybody around you and I think that's that's that's what it is within. Yeah he says that same trait with Lewis. Hamilton is easy. Well it can happen when you on top you can get complacent Could back-off Jomo talking about this earlier. As well with Ross wig out with the team suddenly off to twenty sixteen Louis could have Perhaps but Louis stays on it. He keeps trying to get better chases as he describes it ghost 'cause when he's out on track and I think Taito is of a similar stock you know he's he's never satisfied even when they winning. He's always looking to improve looking to stay on top and cross the opposition. Is that relentlessness? James said stands in my car and it seems all winners up pretty pleased that they've been placed in the positions on our greatest f one team because once again. We have a message from the winner. Let's take it across to missed a tie wolf. Hi everybody trusted afford. I would like to say thank you to the Motorsport Network. Journalists that have participated in the voting and I must say very Hambo to have been elected the best team principal. When when? I'm looking at all those names Giant and particularly Frank Williams they role models for me shrinks Stamina Andrews. Zillions is incredible and I was able to blog and watch from him was at Williams at the end of the day. We old just figureheads for the team. Every single individual in the team deserves that credit. And this is why I would like to pass on this award. This prize to everybody within Macedo. Swiss had to make races and titles. I'm also very happy to see. Many of my teammates haven't been elected in the top three on medals and bundle to guys who Trends WITH RUSSIA. Very very strong bond as well as royals who have been the Johnny and and of course Lewis who has won the type based tribal as you know Lewis and I are very very close and seeing income out on top so we won the team principal. We've on the driver is great. So thank you very much and again you know the strength of the pack so this is a price for all of US federal budget. Thank you again for the. But I think it's safe to say that our team is in rather good hands and he completes our lineup so we now have paid Bonington. As Race Engineer Adrian newly as chief Designer Stefan Melancholy as sporting director Ross brawn as technical director Sustaining Moss as number two driver Lewis Hamilton. Taking the lead as on the one driver and of course we've talked it all off today with title Wolf as team principal. Good look stopping that lot. I think is safe to say but do you think you could put together a better team than our panel of Global F one experts. That is know your lineup in the comments. Thanks ever so much for joining us on this special series Lookout for more special series coming your way across the motorsport network channels at thank you for joining us. And we'll see next time. Thanks so much for back.

principal Frank Williams Ferrari Hamilton Lewis John Louis Mercedes Schumacher Ross brawn Dream Team US IDAHO World Championship Principal Ferrari Lewis Hamilton James Michael Schumacher Race Engineer Iron House chief designer
Frank Abagnale Pt. 2: Catch Me If You Can

Con Artists

46:30 min | 9 months ago

Frank Abagnale Pt. 2: Catch Me If You Can

"In one thousand nine hundred sixty seven nineteen year old frank. Abergnail junior was in the middle of his biggest score yet. Hosing once again as airline pilot Frank Williams. He cashed out fraudulent expense checks all over town in Eureka. California to the tune of five thousand dollars or about thirty eight thousand three hundred dollars today on his last morning in Eureka. Frank was packing up to hit the road when he realised he'd misplaced check and not just any check but one with his real name and address written on the back. He just created a paper trail leading to his front door. Frank immediately called the bank. The tele who answered informed him that they had already identified. The check is a fake and had called the FBI agent would be arriving at the branch. Any Minute. Francs stomach dropped sinking quickly. Frank identified himself as the agent in question and informed the manager that he would be on the scene in fifteen minutes. He quickly changed into his most professional suit and without an ID or plan entered the same bank. He'd scam just twenty four hours earlier. The head teller was already waiting for him. Frank turned on the charm. Hoping it would make up for his lack of identification. Luckily didn't ask for any. Frank took the check from her explaining that it was vital evidence but first he made her a copy making sure to xerox only the front then with their cheerful wave. Frank walked out of the bank. Five minutes later the real FBI arrived. But Frank Abergnail had already skipped town. Welcome to Cornutus Park oust original. I'm Alistair murden every week. We peel back. The layers of history's greatest deceptions and tell the stories of the hustlers swindlers and fraudsters. That orchestrated Ben. I'll dive into their psychology breakdown that tricks and explain why anyone might fool. For a con- you can find episodes of con artists and all other podcast originals for free on spotify wherever you listen to podcasts to stream con artists for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type Cornutus in the search bar at podcast with grateful few listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how it doing. Reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at Parkas network. Last week we discussed Frank Abergnail. A CON artist Wunderkind. Who ran away from home? At sixteen to escape his parents divorce frank began forging checks to fund an itinerant lifestyle across America taking on various new identities including an airline pilot. A pediatrician and the lawyer. This week we'll hear how frank perfected the art of counterfeiting then disguised as an airline pilot and funded by his food. He traveled the world but eventually the law caught up with him by the tender age of Nineteen Frank. Abergnail hits switched careers more often than most adults using nothing more than his brains. His confidence and little forgery. He'd repeatedly wormed his way into the professional world posing as a doctor lawyer and airline pilot but somewhere in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven when colleague in his new life as an attorney started questioning his credentials. Frank was almost exposed. He fled town. Managing a narrow escape soon. After Frank decided he was ready to go straight. He bought a car with some of his leftover con money and drove West. He didn't necessarily have a plan but he was sure that the right opportunity would present itself and soon enough one did while passing through UTAH. Frank notice that the state had plenty of college campuses and for a moment he entertained the idea of enrolling after all he was the right age and he had already proven himself to be a quick study but as he mulled. The idea over. Frank found an ad in a local. Utah Paper Advertising for a summer. Sociology Teaching Assistant at Brigham Young University and suddenly he had a better idea why pay to be a student when he could get paid to help teach while the university has since denied it. Frank claims that he called up the university that same day and after forging a transcript from Columbia. University was hired to help lecture for the summer as a high school dropout. Frank was hardly qualified to help teach history let alone college sociology. Course but he managed to maintain the illusion by always reading a chapter ahead of his students and whenever the material failed him. Frank would simply open the floor for discussion. A surefire way to kill time according to Franks autobiography. Catch me if you can. His lectures were immensely popular with students and Brigham. Young University by his own accounts informed. Frank that if a fulltime faculty position became available he would be one of the first calls but once the summer session ended. Frank was back on the road though it had been two years since he cashed a fake check his anxiety that the authorities were closing in never let him linger in one place for too long. In fact there was no reason to believe anyone knew where he was. But even so Frank. Felton urgent need to get out of town on his way. South Toward San Francisco. He happened to pullover in Eureka. California but was originally meant to be a pitstop turned into an extended. Stay when frank started dating a local woman while he was in Eureka Frank? Maiden interesting observation. Though it was a fairly small town it had a disproportionate number of banks. He realized this presented a rare opportunity with so many institutions to scam. He could make a big score in one place. A first for frank and luckily for him he still had some personal checks from his days as a pilot and his old uniform as we discussed in our last episode pilots can cash checks at pretty much any bank without question even if he cash doubts as little as one hundred dollars each branch it would leave him with a grand total of a thousand dollars about seven thousand four hundred dollars today but one thousand dollars didn't feel big enough for his one. Last score and personal checks were always subject to more scrutiny. That's when frank had another idea he could forge a payroll check from pan. Am The company logo would give him more authenticity and would allow him to cash out. Higher amounts without question. Frank immediately got to work. He bought some blank counterchecks. More Panam decals and a second hand typewriter from a nearby stationery store with his supplies. In hand he set about creating a realistic looking expense check. He made the checkout for five hundred and sixty eight dollars and seventy cents a number that felt realistic for a pilot working for a high caliber airline. The first check took a total of two hours to make but even then frank wasn't especially pleased with the end result. He was worried that it didn't look professional enough and would easily be spotted as a forgery but without a real Pan Am check to use as a template he had no way of knowing how close to the real thing his version was there was only one way of telling he would have to test it but before he took the leap. Frank wanted something else from Pan Am to help sell his Li- passing something off by using an element of truth isn't a new concept. The technical term is cold. Paul touring where perpetrator uses true statements or Catholic missions in order to make something false or convincing according to the Harvard Business Review. In everyday situations puttering can be used in negotiation in a job interview or even when selling a used car for example an executive interviewing a top candidates might tell her that they received one hundred resumes and a meeting with ten potential. Hires this may be true. But what they omit is that she's their favorite choice. By a mile this gives them leverage when it comes to negotiating a salary and benefits but Colorado is take this tactic. One step further in the case francs fraudulent checks. He knew that he had a better chance. At convincing. The bank teller that his check was the victim. It if it came from an authentic Pan Am envelope so he simply added a pan and decal and postage stamp to a regular envelope and took out the check for a trial run to his delight. The bank accepted it without a hitch. He walked out five hundred. Sixty eight dollars and seventy cents richer over four thousand dollars today. Elated frank quickly run back to the hotel to create more sham checks by his calculations there were ten banks in Eureka and he had at least five business days before anyone realized his first check was fraudulent that gave him more than enough time to hit each bank and get out of town before anyone could arrest him but a fateful encounter over lunch almost derailed. Franks whole operation while eating at a seafood restaurant. Frank ran into the fishermen who caught that day's catch the two men bonded over their mutual love of classic cars and the fishermen offered to send frank pictures of his latest project and nineteen fifty four convertible. He asked for francs address so he could mail them over. The request. Put Frank on the spot. Everyone in Eureka knew him as Frank Williams but Frank Williams didn't have a home address and Frank Abergnail was actually interested in seeing the Ford so he took out a blank cheque from his pocket and wrote out his real name as well as his father's address in New York on the back but before frank could hand him the info. The fishermen was called away. Frank Hawk did the check and resumed his day forgetting about the encounter the next morning as he was packing to leave town. Frank suddenly remembered the check with all his personal information he looked around for the incriminating paper but couldn't find it anywhere in the hotel room. He remembered that after meeting the fishermen he'd taken several checks to bank earlier that morning then it hit him. He'd cashed the check. The bank now had his real name and address on an incriminating piece of evidence. Frank cold the bank immediately to inquire after the fake check. He learned that the FBI was already on. Its Way without a plan. Frank identified himself as the agent. He explained that he needed to collect the check for evidence and scheduled to meet with the head. Tyler in fifteen minutes time within the hour frank had successfully walked out of the bank the incriminating check in hand and high tailed it out of Eureka. Later he learned that he missed the real. Fbi agent by five minutes. But while frank was overjoyed by his narrow escape the feds were furious not only had they lost their culprit but he'd impersonated an agent and humiliated them in the process and so they made it their mission to catch the mysterious conman. Whatever it took coming up frank abergnail becomes a Master Forger as the FBI devotes more resources to find him podcast listeners. Get ready to discover an incredible new podcast. It's called supernatural with Ashley Flowers in this podcast original series crying Junkies Ashley. Flowers searches for the truth behind. Some of history's most unbelievable events. We know that most mysteries can be solved by looking at the facts but sometimes the facts don't lead to a logical explanation and the truth lies somewhere in the unknown in supernatural with Ashley. Flowers actually takes a deep dive into the strange and surreal to explain some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences every Wednesday. She'll dig into a different crime or mystery where the most fitting theory isn't always the most conventional from exit systems to unsolved murders to alien abductions. Ashley will take on. The tails challenge the unexplained and dissect the facts with a heavy helping of skepticism and rationale. So a you ready to get to the bottom of history's most peculiar events. Follow supernatural with Ashley. Flowers free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story. In nineteen sixty seven nineteen year old. Frank Abergnail headed to San Francisco emboldened by his latest con after forging a series of fraudulent checks he had successfully escaped the clutches of the FBI. Five thousand dollars richer and so after initially pledging to do just one law school. Frank decided that perhaps it was too early to throw in the towel on crime. San Francisco offered frank a place to hone his rudimentary forging skills and with each batch. His false checks looked and felt more authentic this combined with his thorough knowledge of the US banking system quickly made him one of the full most check. Forgers in the country. Not everyone could walk into a bank and cash outta counterfeit check but as the former police chief of Houston said Frank. Abergnail could write a check on toilet. Paper sign it. You are hooked and cash it at any bank in town using a Hong Kong driver's license in his autobiography. Catch me. If you can. Frank breaks his process down with a little more elegance. According to him the most important traits a con man can possess a personality observation and research personality and Franks case really meant charisma. Or carrying himself with confidence and authority. A suit would only get him so far when he was passing off a fraudulent check he also needed to convince the Bank Teller. That he was beyond scrutiny. Franks pilot uniform went a long way in selling this but without his charm he wouldn't have gotten as far as he did. Observation and research accounted for the rest of his success early in his career. Frank noticed that the numbers at the bottom of his checks varied depending on which state had issued them off to some investigation. He learned that. The numbers indicates at the location of the bank account. The check had originated from where the original accounts were from determined how quickly check cleared the further away. The bank accounts the longer it took for its processed for checks issued from local banks. It took only three days for the money to be declared as valid but it checked deposited in San Francisco from faraway city. Like Boston could take up to seven. Luckily for Frank Local tellas. I didn't pay attention to these numbers. And eventually he was able to use this knowledge in even more creative ways for instance if frank open new accounts for ten thousand dollars or so. Standard Bank policy prevented him from making withdrawals for three days. The amount of time it took for local check to clear but the numbers on the check. Frank deposited were actually non-local meaning. The process took much longer but by the time the check was found to be a fake. Frank had already withdrawn the money and disappear. The city of San Francisco had so many banks to fleece that the nineteen year old. Frank soon found himself with more cash than he could reasonably spend. He took out to safety deposit boxes under different. Aliases and deposited twenty five thousand dollars over one hundred ninety thousand dollars today in each one paying rent on the boxes three years in advance but San Francisco proved to be more than just an ideal place to carry out fraud soon. Frank also found himself head over heels one day while posing as pilots at the San Francisco International Airport. Frank met Rosalie a stewardess and the two began dating before long. The relationship grew serious. Frank even went to l. a. to meet her parents before he proposed. Rosalie and her family were discussing marriage. Frank was in love for the first time but as an impostor who'd been on the run since age sixteen the idea of marriage made him understandably nervous. He had enough money to finance a wedding and to buy a home but Rosalie knew him. Only by his alias. Frank Williams not Frank Abergnail moreover with a wife at home. It would be far more difficult for frank to run cons or disappear if things got messy. If he wanted to continue the relationship he would have to confide in his potential fiance so one day in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven while in La Frank and Rowsley found some time alone for a bike. Ride the love. Birds dismounted and a beautiful park and took a stroll as Rosalie began to talk about their future family. Frank Saito down on the grass. Then he told her everything with bated breath. He explained that he wasn't who she thought he was. He wasn't Frank Williams. The dashing twenty-eight row pilot but rather frank abergnail a nineteen year old con artists from Westchester. County wanted by the FBI. He explained the circumstances of his parents. Divorce and how he'd spent the last three years on the run then finally about how he had made a living by creating fraudulent checks. Rosalie listened with wide eyes head shaking. She refused to believe what he was telling her after all she'd seen his pilot's license and his Pan Am ID card. She met him at the airport. For God's Sakes and everything he'd said to her indicated that he was familiar with the industry there was no way he could be lying about everything but as he continued laying out details from the past four years of his life. The truth was undeniable. Rosalie was distraught. She left him in the park agreeing to meet him later and finished talking after she left. Doubts began creeping into frank's mind. He wondered whether telling Rosalie the truth was the right move. Or if he'd given her all the ammunition she needed to expose him to the police. He decided to go back to her parents house. Sooner Than They arranged he wanted to finish that conversation and to judge whether it was time to skip town once again as he pulled up to the house frank noticed an unmarked vehicle parked in the driveway. And a couple of feet down the road an LAPD squad car. Frank didn't anticipate just how quickly Rosalie will turn on him. But he didn't waste any time feeling betrayed or hurt he immediately turned around and got on a flight to San Francisco once there. He packed up own his belongings paid for his room and left without a forwarding address that same night he was in Las Vegas a city known for mending heartbreak but frank was surprised to realize that he wasn't heartbroken. He was relieved without a wife by his side. He was free to continue conning his way through the states and he realized that sport he truly wanted to do as it turned out. Vegas Frank. More than just some much-needed amusement several days after his arrival in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. He ran into a girl who lost all her money in the casinos. She was in desperate need of some cash for a flight back home. Frank offered to buy dinner no strings attached and as they started chatting the girl said something that grabbed his attention. She mentioned that she worked for a check design company. Frank started asking her questions about the equipment they used. And how they designed checks without hesitation. The goal revealed that the company utilized and tech camera and a printing press to create real checks. Frank was so thrilled with the information that he paid for her flight back home the very next day he went looking for the equipment she mentioned. It costs eight thousand dollars but frank was happy to pay up to him. It was worth the authenticity using his new toys. Frank was able to print five hundred high quality checks. That looked exactly like real checks because except for the fraudulent numbers at the bottom. They were before. Frank was using blank. Counterchecks the could be founded any stationery store. But these new checks with specially designed and printed even if a teller wetter scrutinized these forgeries. They wouldn't be able to tell the real check from the fake before he left Vegas Frank tested out his test copies by cashing them out in all the casinos on the Strip and gambling. Little on the side all in all he walked out of Las Vegas Thirty Nine Thousand Dollars Richer. Almost three hundred thousand dollars. Today with these new checks frank. Felt unstoppable and even though it was risky he couldn't help himself for making his way across the country to continue cashing them. The thrill of getting away with it was like a constant high. That frank was chasing and business was good by late. One thousand nine hundred sixty seven. Frank had amassed a fortune of five hundred thousand dollars all three and three quarter million today but frank was more aware than ever that the cops were on his tail. He was convinced that the police and the FBI knew everything. He told Rosalie including his real name. His methods and his patents and is frank's fortunes continued to grow. He realized it was only a matter of time before he was thrown behind bars. So Frank decided that he needed to flee the country for good. The only problem was that he didn't have a passport. But this was a relatively minor obstacle for Frank Abergnail. Junior frank decided it would be safer to get passport in Mexico. He was able to get a visa using his pilot's ide- under the name Frank Williams. Then he made his way south. A customs officer would have easily discovered the five hundred thousand dollars in cash that lined his suitcase in jacket but because of his uniform he was waved through the border without a second glance after arriving in Mexico late nineteen sixty seven. Frank befriended the concierge at his hotel with the help he managed to get in touch with a woman who had pulled in the Mexican American Embassy. She was able to issue him a temporary American passport under his real name. Frank got on a plane to London that same evening but before he left he couldn't resist the urge to cash out some lost fraudulent checks in Mexico for a grand total of six thousand five hundred dollars. This ended up coming around to bite him now. In addition to the FBI the Mexican federales were after him as well but they wouldn't be the first foreign authorities to come after frank and within the year frank would find himself with warrants for his arrest in more than twenty different countries. Coming up the authority. Start catching up to frank abergnail junior now back to the story by the beginning of Nineteen Sixty eight twenty year. Old Frank Abergnail junior had tried and failed to give up his life of crime. Several times he'd worked in a lawyer's office and even as a sociology teaching assistant for summer but after perfecting his check forgery technique and amassing a small fortune. Frank fled to London outrunning the authorities and ill-advised confession to a previous girlfriend as well as growing cache of evidence against him did give the authorities in advantage. But Frank refused to stay anywhere long enough to give them a chance to catch up. He knew that he should stop his scams. Settle into a quiet anonymous life abroad. But after a lifetime on the run frank felt he had to keep moving and in order to fund his travels. He needed to commit more crimes. It was a never ending cycle that he felt he couldn't break out of frank's habits of continuing the actions he knows could result in his arrest can be potentially described as an impulse control disorder a condition where people are unable to regulate their emotions were behavior examples of people suffering from this disorder include pathological gamblers kleptomaniacs and those prone to violent outbursts. But Franks actions seem to be more driven by what's known in Criminal Law as an irresistible impulse. This time is used in court to define defendants who know right from wrong. But still con- control their behavior long enough to stop carrying out their crimes. This may have explained why less than a week after his arrival in London. Frank cashed out even more fraudulent checks and fled to Paris. In no time at all he'd fallen into the same patents. He distinguished in the states and francs. Fakes were getting harder and harder to detect right before leaving America. He gotten his hands on a real Pan Am payroll check from a stewardess on his flight using this check as a model. He'd found a printer in Paris. Who could prince exact replicas now francs forgeries could withstand scrutiny from even Pan Am Employees? Which meant a big payday for him soon. Thereafter Frank embarked on a tour through Europe. He hopped from country to country stopping in Spain. Italy Sweden Greece Turkey and Germany among others in each new place. Frank pulled many of the same cons. He perfected in the United States. He repeatedly cashed out expense checks as a pilot and open fake checking accounts but as he continued his crime spree. He realized that he was drawing suspicion by traveling alone. In the states it was common for pilots to travel solo between domestic airlines but overseas Americans traveled in crews if pilots were being dead headed in for a last minute flight. Back home they would most likely be locals. Not An American based three thousand miles away so in one of his most daring cons yet frank claims to have hired a fake crew for himself to give his pilot act even more authenticity returning to the states briefly. He allegedly reached out to the University of Arizona explaining that he was looking for potential recruits. He hired several. Junior students as stewardess interns a title. He made up but that the women fully believed in exchange for their participation. Frank showed them the world he was even able to pay them by cashing fraudulent pan. Am expense checks on their behalf at every hotel. They stayed in by the end of the summer. The Juniors returned to school with a lifetime of new experiences. Frank in the meantime continued looking for the next big score but something snapped in him. He realized he no longer enjoyed the con- Work Instead. He was being driven by a pathological instinct to accumulate as much wealth and cash as he could and frank had so much of it he couldn't even spend what he was bringing in. It was flooding in too quickly. But more importantly frank realized that he needed to cool down if he didn't want to spend the rest of his life in jail so he decided to retire at the right page of twenty in early nineteen sixty nine. At this point in his career he had tens of thousands of US dollars saved up more than enough to live on. He settled down. In Montpellier in the south of France and because Frank's mother was a French citizen. He was already familiar with the language. The town's size was just right. It was small enough that it didn't have any INTERNATIONAL AIRPORTS OR TRAIN STATIONS. But big enough. That's an American. With disposable. Income didn't attract too much attention most conveniently his grandparents lived close by being in Montpellier allowed him to visit them and served as an alibi to cover up the real reason he was there soon. Frank bought a house a car and attempted to settle down into a normal life. His taste for adventure had to be satisfied with small day trips hiking in the foothills of Spain or spending time on the beaches of France. He even started thinking about the future. Mont peltier either as a student or a businessman. Unfortunately for frank four months into his new life those dreams were cut short in the summer of one thousand nine hundred sixty nine twenty one year old. Frank was doing his bi weekly food shopping at the local markets. When he realized he'd Forgotten Carton of milk he said his boss get assigned at the front so as not to block the other shoppers lined up behind him and went to collect the missing ingredient. He was standing in the back of the store out of sight when he paused sensing that something was off then he realized that all the shoppers that were gathered at the stores front were gone in. The place stood four men standing by the checkout counter. One had shotgun while the rest looked around menacingly. Frank immediately thought. The store is being robbed and ducked behind a shelf. Then one of the men yelled abergnail before he realized what was happening. Frank was surrounded by officers holding pistols and shouting in his face. They forced frank to the ground and slap a pair of handcuffs on his wrists. Within the hour he was sitting. In the Montpellier police station facing to interrogators. Who were eager to hear about Frank's exploits? Frank only learns later how they managed to find him a stewardess. He'd flown with several years before was off duty and Montpelier when she saw him around town by this time. Hannam had circulated pictures of frank alerting. Airports he was a wanted criminal. The students recognized him immediately and notified the authorities who took it from there now court frank was ready to let go of the Chirad. He confessed to everything and within two weeks. He was put on trial her his attorney's advice. He pled guilty and was ultimately sentenced to one year. In one of France's oldest prisons have been young at the time. Frank believed that he got enough easy but once he saw his cell he realized how wrong he was. The room was tiny. No more than five feet tall and five feet wide. The only furniture was a bucket on the floor. No bed no toilet. No furniture of any kind. And when the bucket overflowed there was no guarantee that it will be swapped for a clean one many times. Frank found himself sitting in his own feces with no way to clean himself in those conditions. It may have been a kindness that the cell was also completely devoid of any light. Frank was total darkness. Most of the time and within his first week he was convinced he was going mad. Finally six months into his sentence. Frank was taken from his cell and put on a train to Paris. He wasn't told where he was going. Or why but he was finally able to shower and shave for the first time since he'd been imprisoned eventually one of his guards told him that he being released from. Perpignan six months early but he was far from free. Now he was being taken to Sweden to be tried for his crimes. There in Sweden Frank was sentenced to another six months in prison. Although the conditions couldn't have been more different from pepin there were no guards no barbed wire or even weapons on the premises. In fact he found it to be so pleasant. That escaping never crossed his mind but while in Sweden Frank learned just how much trouble he was in all. His International Scheming hadn't gone unnoticed. In addition to France and Sweden the governments of twelve other countries including Italy. Denmark and Germany had made formal requests to extradite him at the rates. He was going the twenty one year. Old was looking at years in a collection of European prisons before even returning to the United States. To face justice and it would be there that he would receive his harshest sentence. Frank new some of these other countries were bound to have prisons as horrible as Papillon in France panicked. He begged the Swedish judge that tried him to send him back to the United States. Once he was back in his home country. The other governments after frank lost their claim on him but the judge couldn't deny direct requests of other countries demanding. His extradition. Frank was beside himself the nights before he was to be transferred to Italy for yet another trial. Frank was brought before the Swedish judge. He explained that for several days heaping grappling with francs case and while he couldn't defy Italy outright he could have francs passport revoked. This would give the Swedish government the authority to deport frank immediately back to America. Frank couldn't believe it. He thanked the judge profusely immensely grateful but even this kind act wasn't enough to stop him from trying to evade justice. The Swedish prisons had reminded him of all the luxuries that he would be missing while he was imprisoned in the US and as he boarded the nonstop flight from Sweden to New York he started thinking of ways to escape frank recognized his plane as a VC ten he knew the at craft inside and out including the fact that the toilet hatch often opened up upon landing triggering an alarm in the cockpit but because it was a common problem Frank Olson you that the pilot would ignore it. Using this knowledge. Frank went to use the Lavatory as the plane descended into New York City. Then he waited for his shot as the plane hit the tarmac. Frank unhinged the toilet hatch and climbed in moments later. He was sprinting onto the runway from there. He hailed a taxi. The Bronx where an old girlfriend of his lived. She loaned the conman some cash and by the next morning. Frank was headed from Montreal. The closest city where he kept a safety deposit box. Unfortunately Frank's freedom lasted a total live. Two days he planned to catch a plane ounce at the Montreal apple to Brazil one of the few countries that wasn't trying to extradite him but before he got his chance he was caught by a member of the Royal Canadian. Mounted Police officer recognized him from the photo in the warrant out for his arrest after his grand escape. Frank was taken right back to America. In April nineteen seventy one. Twenty two year old. Frank was sentenced to twelve years in prison and sent to the Federal Correctional Institution in Petersburg Virginia and once he finally stopped running. Frank took the time to reflect on his behavior. And what to do now. He became a model prisoner and applied for parole. Every chance he had after serving just four years. Frank was granted parole for good behaviour in Houston Texas and allowed to reenter normal society. But once he was released. Frank had difficult time. Starting an honest life he found work could fast food chain and in a grocery store but he was fired from both jobs wants. His managers learned that he was an ex convict. Frank was considering returning to a life of crime but he had another idea helping. People protect themselves from the same kind of cons. He used to run. Frank pitched a security seminar to a local bank based on his experience on the other side of the law. His lecture was a huge success. And before long frank made a career for himself as a white collar crime specialist then in one thousand nine hundred seventy four francs insight proved so valuable that he was recruited as a consultant for the FBI. The same agency that had once chased him all over the globe today. Frank Abergnail seems to help far more people than he hurts. While repairing some of the damage he managed to inflict in his brief five year career but regardless of which side of the law. He's on. He remains one of the most resourceful and devious minds to ever dip his toes into the world of Calms sci-fi listening to Con Artists. We'll be back next week with a new episode for more information on Frank Abergnail amongst the many sources we used. We found his autobiography catch-me-if-you-can extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of cornutus. And all other podcast originals. For Free on spotify not only does spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like con artists for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream con artist on spotify. Just open the APP and type Cornutus in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and instagram. At Paul cost and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time was by Max. Cutler and his APOPKA studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler sound design by Anthony. Val Sick with production assistance by Russia Pero Kaldi Madden Isabel away and Paul Malla. This episode of Artis was written by Liz derivates in with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon. I'm Alison Modin highlights. Don't forget to check out the incredible new podcast original series supernatural with Ashley Flowers every Wednesday. Take a deep dive into the strange and surreal to find the truth behind some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences. I've had a chance to listen to some episodes and they are fantastic. Search for supernatural with Ashley Flowers in the spotify APP. And listen free today.

Frank Frank Abergnail Frank Williams Franks FBI Frank Hawk Frank Local Frank Saito La Frank Junior frank Frank Olson San Francisco United States America spotify Eureka Ashley Flowers forgery Bank Teller
Benjamin Watson, Tulsi Gabbard and Frank Wolf on the Slaughter of Christians in Nigeria

The BreakPoint Podcast

05:08 min | 2 months ago

Benjamin Watson, Tulsi Gabbard and Frank Wolf on the Slaughter of Christians in Nigeria

"Could bring a NFL player, a Republican and a Democrat together on one stage the issue of persecute Christians in Nigeria for the Colson Center. I'm John. Stonestreet this is break point. On Wednesday of this week, I was honored to participate in a media event along with former US representative frank, wolf current US representative Tulsi Gabbard former Super Bowl Star Ben Watson and Steven A. Nada President of the International Committee on Nigeria or icon. The targeting of Christians in Nigeria for persecution abduction and death is so dire that it's been labeled genocide by observers both inside and outside the country. Especially in northern Nigeria Christians are under a sustained brutal assault by two groups that are bent on their destruction, the Islamic terror group. Boko Haram and Fulani militants that are motivated by a mixture of Islamist ideology and the greed for land on any given day Christians are killed, raped and kidnapped. An interactive calendar on the icon website offers a documented summary of just how many Christians have been victimized each day since December of last year as I mentioned in my comments for the panel, this campaign against believers in Nigeria has been going on for years but this calendar offers a visual picture that the persecution of Christians in Nigeria is as recent as last week. For, example, just last week over twenty Christians were killed and over sixty abducted in Nigeria as Stephen Nahda leader of icon and host of Wednesday's panel. Told me recently on an episode of the Break Point Podcast Nigerian Christians are in the midst of an existential crisis. In addition to all of those killed, there are more than three million displaced Nigerians, women and children are being trafficked to Europe and yet the Nigerian government has largely embraced a policy of indifference. If not complicity at most they might arrest a few perpetrators he were. There but then declare them de radicalized after a short while sending them back into the community many continue to prey on their Christian neighbors. That's why every member of Wednesday's panel called for external pressure. The Nigerian government must be pressured by the international community. Especially, the government of the United States of America creating that pressure is the mission of icon. Their comprehensive report titled Genocide in Nigeria offers the full heartbreaking picture of what's happening in Africa's largest country. You can get a copy on their website Wednesdays. Event was designed to not. Only in for media about icons, activities, and resources, but press for government action while offering possible ways that the US might pressure the Nigerian government to act after pointing out that more Christians have been killed in Nigeria than Islamists have killed in Syria and the rest of the Middle East combined former representative Frank Williams urged the trump administration to appoint a special on Voi- for Nigeria in addition to working with the UN and other NGOs to coordinate all the efforts designed to confront this crisis. A special on Voi- will send the. Signal that the US is serious about the persecution of Christians in Nigeria and willing to put its sizable wait to work in order to stop it and not a seconded Woolf's recommendations as did the rest of the panel saying that it's more important than ever that the US government act to resolve this crisis a special envoy with the full backing of our federal government said Wolfe would have the power to hold perpetrators accountable representative Tulsi Gabbard a Hindu also voiced her support for these kinds of efforts to often she said these. Attacks go unnoticed but Americans must join our voices against the systemic slaughter of Christians, and former super, bowl champion Ben Watson struck perhaps the most inspirational and motivational note of the event. When he said if we're silent about what's happening in, Nigeria, we are in some way complicit he then link the Campaign for Justice in Nigeria to the Campaign for Justice here at home, the shouldn't be limited to our shores. We must raise a voice against violations around the world. Please come to breakpoint dot org for a link to watch the. Video of the event and we urge you to share it widely on social media and then send it to your representatives in. Congress and please pray for our brothers and sisters in Nigeria I this at the event on Wednesday and I'll say it again praying is doing something primarily prayer aligns our hearts to the heart. Of God no mistake. The heart of God is aligned with our brothers and sisters being persecuted in. Nigeria. So the more we pray the less we will tolerate silence about their persecution for breakpoint I'm John Stonestreet.

Nigeria Nigerian government US representative Tulsi Gabbard Ben Watson Frank Williams NFL John Stonestreet International Committee Colson Center Fulani Congress assault President Steven A. Nada Europe Middle East Stephen Nahda
Italian GP Preview - Farewell Frank Williams

The Autosport Podcast

20:50 min | 3 months ago

Italian GP Preview - Farewell Frank Williams

"Hello. Welcome to the podcast on host I notice. Just a few days of the Formula One paddock departed spa. In the Belgium Grand Prix it's said again as mom's with our in these most unusual years, there's another time you might say look forward to next week as well Jelly. But Italian gump raise up I said, it's usual home the previous Media Day took place today. There was astounded mix of pre-event noise but one development took place today as it was announced that the Williams family who stepped down from running the tate had owned Ritz, entire existence and to just a short while ago when it sold to investment company does capital joining me on the podcast night in is a rather eclectic decorated airbnb and lesbian just a few miles in the monster Trak is might support dot com. Jonathan Able and John Let's start with that William. Story. How big a shock first of all was this? All was it was it was coming was expected after the team had been sold fake it was a shock but partly because this is the end of the road as a Formula One team owner and team boss Frank Williams of that was more the more the surprise. and the way the Williams announced they put a press release out the said Claire. Williams will be stepping down off this weekend on pre, which wasn't a massive shock to know Dalton. Serious. They WANNA come in, they want to fresh start pushing things forward but then put a second Presley say a few minutes later. Just announcing the both and frus stepping away from the team. So I mean that that is a proper end of an era in front of the longest. If at longest-serving team principal, the legends of the sport being there for the seventies tasted massive success. Disappointments a rollercoaster life rollercoaster person Formula One. WHO's. Seen it all done. All work, everybody. And for it to end so suddenly is more the more surprise that is kind of the way it happens. So immediately was perhaps a big surprise to definitely because the the driver's spoke last weekend receives the first first race since the silent been announced and they were saying that you know there's a full review happening. So the new owners looking into every little detail. So I guess a little bit surprising, the Clare. Williams and and frank as well. At least they weren't. They weren't going to stick around the end of the year because you know in in in calendar terms, we're only a few months away from the end twenty twenty. So that seems a little bit like, okay. Why? Why would you? Why would that be quite so quickly? Yeah may maybe it's just a signal of Dalton's intention to get moving and get things changing. Announced today that the director's coming in James Mattis user formerly quite successful racing driver now, best known in the tabloids as PIPPA. Middleton's. So I think probably just want to get on with things and I think when any company. kind of takes over another business or get involved in this way is often very useful to have that line in the sand and. Make a break with the past and I think maybe they wait to the end of the year. Then there's not much time before the start of the twenty one season, and then you need to get rolling with twenty twenty two. So you know maybe this is A. Deliberate pushed by say, right we need to we need action when you do things around way when he's got people, you know their feet under the desks. And get rolling, get moving and Williams's around. In a way, can you see any sort of parallels between happened the sale of f one of rule to liberty media because liberty which is Kinda stuck a little bit with the decisions that the previous owner the previous. Management Tenure Cousteau in what they what they you know established for the coming years where immediately when they took over for them to stop their own authority and we've Williams obviously the current car, the very real physical representation and what team is, what about the forty one car it produces will be carried over to next year. So Really You would say that the the most specific way you could judge the impacts of the new owners shoulder go to be in two, thousand, twenty two. Yeah it does roll on and I think I can see the parallels with you know when liberty took over Formula One and they Were quite swift to move. Bernie. Into base it was an honorary position and you know pushed into his own little office somewhere not not heavily involved at all before being. Finally. Pushed aside, Star this year for the contracts. Run out. It's the same thing. If you want to make rapid changes, clear Williams needed to make changes why they put she view in the first place you know the team had. You needed a ramping up a finance in permanent at a bit of a rethink bit of wide long-term. Term Planning. If you want to do these things is quite if the previous management are in there and if trying to justify decisions I've made. So thing if you want a company to turn around quickly. You kind of clear out clear out the legacy of the past in some respects you push forwards and we'll see how quickly things move on I mean. We could have a new team principal in places earliest Magilla. Williams organic clarify what will be happening because said claims remains of in charge of the team and so the end. Deputy team principal grow until the end of this weekend, and then onto something new and potentially some big news coming next week. is a sad day for Formula One. You mentioned that History Williams has got. So yeah. Is it something that we should be looking back on as our spit spit off the air is over Look forward to hopefully what Williams can do tend to reviving. It's a it's fortunate because no one likes to see a great team struggling. Yeah I think it's one of those days. That's a mixed really. So I mean there is sadness that Frank Williams. He's no longer going to be involved in the team that bears his name but can't happen in you don't feel sadness about it because you know he's being. You know massive civil war sport. All he's achieved and although he's not been actively. Working as a team principal as many of the current team principles work but. You know he's still he's still a figurehead still huge legend in Formula One In such a change can't happen you about sadness is like when CANTERO's step down. It was like when Ron Dennis moved away. You know these are Saturdays when when these conic figures move equally. Claire and frank of made a decision. Because they believe it allows the new organised to do the right thing for the team. So while there is sadness, there's also a level of. Excitement, and Egan's to find out what the next step is for the team and it's all being done to help Williams better in the future, which is all everyone wants to see a strong Williams is good for one. That's what the drive is already getting today Georgia Nicholas Latifi obviously off the bow. Their action was when they were told, they were told this morning nicotine by herself really needs and they will just sort of saying well, the family must be happy that they're leaving their legacy and that. Made them famous. What made them so So you know what made them them, space it really the team that leaving in good hands what they consider to be good hands at the moment. that. Kino a continuation on of hopefully what they you know they they've seen some they liked basically is done in selling that team to this investment group. Could it be much worse team at the back of the grid faces huge financial problems because the prizemoney falls down sponsors on. So interested. He was going to spiral of negativity. Can lead to big financial problems, teams folding or. Could have been much worse outcome. Potential two years. We've seen teams administration and collapse which would have been that would been terribly sad. Williams hadn't gone forwards. I think daily Clarin Frank would have liked to have left Formula One as. Witnesses champions and then. Cool time gone done something else and left someone else to take over. The second best option is what's happened now owners they're happy with. The Senate a chance for the future. And the both watching races a home, and they'll still be cheering for Williams. So you know I think it's ultimately the best outcome for the team. It's quite hard to gauge the answer to the next question. I've got John Because we know we're still not allowed in the paddock and what have you picked up any sort of any reaction from from what people are. Feeling about the knees Williams will be gone on a voluntary bought US spike quite eloquently in quite nicely for majority of that for many years he he's on a procession say, well, how do you think the panic reacted to the these probably the same as Australia the level of sadness about Front Williams, no longer being part of phone one Lewis Hamilton spoke about it. Tonight and that was that great i. think we can all remember that great lap that Lewis Hamilton did we've Frank Williams as a passenger in his car Silverstein? Frank Absolutely. Loved it. Franks. Pure. Racer did everything for that team. Sacrificed a lot for that team. Everyone in the sport appreciates appreciates. The sports. Hundreds of team principals come in various guises. Some have been very popular, some of totally failed, but very few have been as successful as iconic and has legendary is frank. Williams I think the whole paddock. Feels a bit. Yeah, probably, little out you that time has come but ultimately. Some point a change is going to happen. Well before we move onto the the second of the three topics beginning to discuss on our first bite size of the weekend. I'm one of we might just indulge in enter the realm of speculation a little bit here John. Who could possibly come in as the team management I mean, could it be only the anyone is company. has head onto the identified in terms of. A good person manage I'm thinking like title for example, he had links to might as well from his post, but he didn't have any team management really when he when he took over Mercedes I was very successful with George Russell pointed out today. Or could it be someone? Maybe we're already familiar with the. People that have been team principals in the past or had links with teams in the past or James Matthew some links with the Mana team which With Jonathan Graham Loudon when I signed Graham loudon involved as an adviser. I think he's unlikely to be to be a team principal but could be involved in the background, and then you can take your pick of a whole host of people. I mean we understand the titles future's going to be clarified soon. but I think it would be huge shock if he was to announce himself the new Williams team boss. But what always goes very well when Mercedes Senior Mercedes people go into. Williams. Sorry Patty. A lot depends on what what the real ambition for the new owners. Timescale. They're they're looking at. So it's do you want? Do you put someone like Simon Roberts joined the team on the technical front as a kind of standing team principal to shore up. The class backs and you get that sorted before you sort you'll figure it'd be like McLaren when. McLaren restructured an awful lot. Undress, stellar and PAT FRY initially sorting all this out. So they dress these issues and then andress idol came in after his godly from Porsche was up. So we may have a may have a niece narrow that they may sign somebody a long period of gardening leave. Or maybe someone. Totally removed from one if you've got someone experienced like a salmon robots in there. then. You may not necessarily need also an experienced team principal. Endless endless. Endless names and Informed on, you can pretty much not anybody out. Indeed well, as we have arrived at monster and the Italian Grand Prix weekend, it means that the reduction in the amount of a number of engine drivers announced a switch through and times of qualifying and the race that's been ended they must now. Pick one from his qualifying an easy for the race thing. So the new technical director when he gets technical director number thirty, seven I believe yes and So as he lost his driver's asked about that today because of course, it impacts all of the power unit manufacturers. But the main sort of implication is that this is a move to try and slow Mercedes down. The Williams drivers recommend it's going to have. Impacts on them and racing point nasty more the Mercedes because Mercedes so far ahead. So even if they're pick pack Alicia in qualifying, which is where Nicholas Atif he reckons that it will. Become apparent but it will benefit the Mercedes squads in the race so. What what do you think? We could see this weekend in terms of the impact of this will have a key thing at the moment is nobody knows for sure there's been a lot of guesswork going on a lot of people presuming various bits, I mean the noise you get from Mercedes is there There'll be pegged back a little bit qualifying. There's no suggestion they didn't fear. That is half second advantage that. For example would be away by this change because. It's not I neither. Just say is losing this special calling mode Honda lease. There's an Brennan Lucius everyone everyone loses a bit but Mercedes probably lose more than the others but may only beat make a difference of one temple to temps. But if masks stop and is able to get close to was able to get close to victory brought, US inspire for example. then. That could that could make the difference in then he starting on the front row in the second row so that could have an impact. But it was more intriguing is what difference is going to make the races, all the Mercedes drivers they're very bullish about. The fact that have to run the same mode and the fact that not now you punishing the engine and. pushing the reliability qualifying means they can be a bit more aggressive in the race. Batas talk tonight the SIM suggests. There is time now is quicker than it was before. Something is going to be how how these engine mods transposed between qualified in the race. It's all guesswork. Nobody knows. But I think we'll have a very, very clear indication. On. Sunday night because this is a power sensitive track about just what the what the impact is, and if there's any. I think big movers since last weekend, a spa there must muffing. We can pretty much say this is. Has Been a bit of a competitive shift. Thanks to this rule change. Definitely worth keeping an eye on the RENAI team this weekend they're very good in slippery low downforce configuration spun obviously now we use again this weekend at Monza now as we are at Monza of course, keep silent. And we might talk about Ferrari the home team you know we're in. Italy. All their fans ahead when Nori far away from their from their factory. Let's face it and it was such a bad weekend at SPA but they're still expecting another one. This weekend smashing metal said, he's a hopeful. We can be back to normal because as we say, lastly Ferrari which is. An unbelievable perfect storm either trying to put on downforce to help it for the corners. SPA and that knocks back Antonis drag on the next the cogs low the with the Power Union problem. So they've got this weekend is. It might go back a little bit more to to normal because there's not a same out corners and say amount of high downpours corners. Monza Bahia nor expecting miracles is what Charleston a class was saying I'm yeah. What were your sense of of how the team how the team conducted itself today? I think realistic I think. The message from them coming out with SPA. Was it was an extreme bad weekend the there's no denying. It was much worse than expected of they were surprised how bad it was. Equally you know was mostly rated is tired or she likes to be on the streets they coming here knowing the not going to be. Super competitive on the streets and. and. She might ban causes perhaps the biggest shock for shuffling around that dramatically. But. There's no tire repeat and it'll be interesting earliest put the pressures up front tire pressures this year compared to. TWO POINT FIVE PSI so Let's can make it much harder for the teams to. Extract performance and not get these ties to overheat. Rusting Interesting to watch tomorrow in terms of how the teams are reacting to that if we can get their tires working and get it switched on then I think they'll be back. They should be back in that kind of midfield pack while they were having realistically they are. Probably four fifth-quickest. Team. Pending on track characteristics and stuff. So if you can come out of this weekend with two cars in Q. Three. And a few points I think they'll be quite satisfied with that is a long way to go. But I if there's another repeat of what happened to spar. Scraping through key one nothing there'll be a bit more of a headache at Maranello. Absolutely. Well, we'll just one one found things talk about Ferraris A, it was interesting to hear Sebastian vessel. Cloud spoken today in his in his press conference about F one needing to do more to help the environment. He feels that Ephron should be leading the way rather than. Just following what's or implementing solutions that he said you know are easy and maybe a little bit cheap rather than using the expertise at the paddock is has got to try and try and make a difference I, mean, what did you make those comments and because is not it doesn't for follows on quite quite nicely from what Lewis Hamilton has been saying. So in the last few years about about Let's have a positive change in and DD something. Yes. That's one of those characters actually quite more worldly wise than we think is. When the was open. There's often times where separate post race post-qualifying see with a TV. Crews and would be obsessing lots of plastic water bottles of me left. By the camera crews will be going around picking them up and put them in recycling. I understand he's travelled some races by train to avoid flying. So he's quite aware of where things stand in in the environment I think he's just eager to see. Formula One push on and do things that will make a difference. For. The difficulties known whether world is going to be in a short time I. Mean if you travel back to January this year and Take pictures of an empty monsoon everyone in mosques you thought what's What's going on? Hey, this isn't this isn't reality this comedy happen. So the world's changed dramatically ready in six seven months. It will likely. Probably set for lot turmoil over the next eighteen months, we may not be back to kind of what we thought was normal. For quite a while? Yeah but. Of wants. It to be. Fonts respond and push on recipes and not sit back and not think that just because in two hundred, twenty two, we should have some exciting causes decent racing an more of a level playing field and costs that festival for needs to do. There's a lot more that can't be done. Absolutely well Jomie. Next to the. Point, size. That went on owning in the product will have to test the leave aside at this point but Sir thank you very much for your time. Tonight. Thanks to everybody hosting alone. Now before we go, we'd like to remind you the latest issue autosport support magazine came out today and is available on the sidewalk shelves and in these agents as the doormats of subscribers. There'll be a new issue the magazine can you speak up every Thursday for news analysis on the stunning so graphic? Nicole Unlimited access to sport from of your. visit also dot com slash plus find out how to subscribe to our package with axiom with another episode of the focused. Music Six am by trio written by Marcus Simmons see sound POW dot com slash tree lend music.

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Mommin' Vs. Daddin' III - Frank Williams

Two Moms Day Drinking

47:26 min | 10 months ago

Mommin' Vs. Daddin' III - Frank Williams

"Stacey gross and this is two months day drinking Frank Williams moved to Warren Pennsylvania in twenty eighteen. I met him shortly after he moved here for our local newspaper. I had no idea on his first day he would become one of my closest friends. I also had no idea that his wife Ashley and I will become soul sisters and that she would become one of my very few. Hetero life mates nor that our kids would wind up loving each other as much as they do but all of that is very true in this episode Frank Talks about his family living through one house fire and that a second nearly a year today later and he also answered some of my questions about what. It's like to raise biracial kids in a very air quotes traditional place Walmart. Finish up this makers. Thank you cody. Sugar yeah all right so tell me about the woman that came in frank is black. I Know I know in Warren County. I don't know how you do it. New TURN DOWN A little bit. Because it seems to be Clin everyone just burst into flames. Is What happened out in by Kathleen Soccer. But when did you come here? When did you come to warn? Let's see came home from deployment state in Jersey for a few months Think I moved up here end of April I started working for the papal April twenty-sixth. Of What your point eighteen twenty eighteen. Okay yeah I couldn't remember seventeen or eighteen now deployed seventeen eighteen. Yeah Yeah Yeah switch on right. Math high biver math math. Why is it so much this real quick really going crazy testing death dang? Maybe that'll be better. I don't know it's either super quiet or it's clipping and I don't know why I'm trying not to be loud but it's funny whenever I have a guy up like yours are really small like the lines for on the way form and minor like begging them to I'm like that's just a representation of noxious. I am not obnoxious. I'm just loud and Blake. I'm just naturally in soft-spoken until I get excited about so. Yeah we're drunk and then I'm just like all right did you. Do you watch drink history? That show you see the one with Lin Manuel Miranda because my favorite episode probably Yeah Hash. I've watched it quite a few of them. Yeah the bags we want. Yeah it's such a good show. We gotTA bring friends over Heaven. Yeah we will begin of living room. Yeah I can't we just you NEWHOUSE OKAY. So Frank. All we have so much to cover. I WANNA hear about the lady the paper and I want to hear about you coming here as Pacman But tell me about so okay. Twenty S. eighteen right the apartment building that you were in burned down and then a year later within what almost a year to the day to the day the same. It was the next building over. 'cause you guys moved over one right same apartment on that building. Cough are correct. Yeah that was. That was an interesting time I mean I haven't really experienced a lot of like residential tragedy or any of that but to experience a a fire even though it was on the opposite needling. Just it's one of those those things you never really think will happen to you right and then when it does. Your dislike shit is happening. This is happening well. I think what socks is that. You're like okay so it wasn't our apartment that burned but the entire building is trash after a fire truck hits it. Yeah pretty much she went. There isn't any fire barrier in the the upper portion of the house literally once it comes up. It just comes straight across burns down. Yeah and then everyone's block and how many families were displaced the first year all of us Fi- one two three four. Five six secs lead. There were six families altogether cheese and that were displaced and then six or eight because of the. The two bedrooms are okay. Yeah so the property manager was like at School. You guys we have this other building right next. Cylinder just renown he was a with. Bill is a property manager. And he's really cool cat. Nothing to happen I right right. He was was helping us every step of the way we he was holding out that apartment then moved into for someone else but after that he said you know if you guys need a place to go have this other one of available. It's your just move on in. Yeah so we figure you know fluke thing right. This doesn't happen again. Cir- circumstances pending Carson. Yeah there's this hallway. Weirdness about it too. There's a lot of controversy behind it and depending on who you talk to me. I see. I've seen what I seen. I went in the building when it burned so I know what I saw right now. I know where it was but you know it is what it is right So moving into the new one. The secondary apartment was a little bit more of a stress. Because not only are we close by. We're living directly next to the building that burned right. It's a constant reminder of what could have happened right and then you know you can still smell it early. You Walk by there is the first and you smell his. Just berm would remains and yeah. Yeah when I worked at the paper I mean the first fire I ever covered that. I mean there was one up here. Actually it was an Amish House. And they had a lot of creosote in their chimney so it was just a chimney fire and you know we covered it because the scanner went off but there was really nothing to it but the first one that I ever went to you that I was I could smell. The smoke was coming across. The street is on Congo and Like the fire department was like you need to. You don't need to be right here and I'm like oh no I totally ideal. Actually because I'm a Weirdo and this is fascinating to me. But like you should probably move and I'm like not knowing to do that. So fire higher power. Yeah Yeah. I was fascinated by the entire thing. Do you want a glass here? Mckay Glaspie just to just wash to make your own work so those you tuning alcoholism thing if you believe yourself and Alcoholic get help however you know you drink on is like I had addiction issues but I never had a problem with alcohol and I still don't. I got really sick the first couple of times I drank so I never have been one. Who and I was also like self medicating a lot of stuff and I was using. Opiates I mean opiates I can never take again but I don't. I'm GONNA completely different point in my life now. Also we're responsible adults. Uncle all just kind of helps the day without being independent right. Yeah Drudges Mad and John Zubay but the second apartment was. It wasn't too bad. I mean you know we still talk to a few the residents that were there. We still had our our close friends there. But we always had this inkling that you know something could have something could happen against as she just knowing the stories from the other buildings previous tenants and yeah and then when the night. That second fire happened. You know it's also just the for my. My little. I thought was just not again but you know then you kick into survival mode you start getting everybody al. Yeah all the precious things you can evacuating buildings but it was to the point where the sheriffs were. GonNa like walking up to me near like. Hey and I'm like okay. This is what happened right building's been cleared that building's been cleared hat also building's been cleared. Yeah the people. You have to worry about her. That person that person because they're worried about their pets That's about it so you're not a sheriff's deputy. Now I like. It seems like you would be perfect for that because college. Yeah story my life. I'm working on it though. Apparently I can turn military experience announced credit some Kenya. I'm trying to figure that out. Yeah maybe getting along enforcement field. I feel like I should be doing something a lot. More fun in physical but also fat body and you would think you would be good for that says to. Yeah East have the personality for it. Of course if he asked for police he uniform is what it's all about is a thing. Yeah someday let me now eventually over there. Yeah I'll vote for you when you run for Sheriff Frank. I like Memory Sundays. How did the kids handle the fire? The first one they they were actually really really good scared. You know outright because you know fires are scary. They they were troopers. Our friends took him in for the night. And they they were a little leery at first but not really not really scarred. Yeah you know. The occasional smell of smoke would kind of Gilbert them a little bang room but they were they were. They were troopers. Thoughts is amazing. How did they feel about moving back into the next building over then where they like hesitant a little bit? It was Kinda just getting right back into routine because everything was everything was relatively the same and that was probably really helpful in like any kind of trauma that might have happened a very good so we. We talked to him alive explained. You know we're GONNA make some changes to be safer. We don't start it. And they were really receptive. They were they. Were good there any nightmares or anything? Not Really. I mean you know people would bonfires and we could smell it here and there they would come to Mesa. Hey Daddy it's okay. It's the neighbor down the street bonfire. She's coming this way in an I'd take frank around. The House would do suggest checks on the doors. Hey I'll frank is a friend and his wife Ashley is here. She was here a lot for like sleepovers last winter. And we need to get that started again. But I love Frankie and Mary Your Kid. Oser like some of my favorite kids Laurel. They are character her if I could get them to sit in a chair long enough in just record their patients their circle and when they're here for sleepovers and the girls and they're playing with the girls I set sometimes like out here in the dining room or a room away and just listened to him in there so funny. It's it's a story in of itself. Yes it's a script is a script I feel like we should. We should record our conversations and then just make a cartoon for it and become Youtube started over Bryant. Here we can write. Listen Ryan were common. Very Oh after you. I'M GONNA probably get sued by Ryan's parents. That's okay though because it's a warious. Yeah they did okay moving in again then the second time they were good we help them get their room. Setup they say. Hey here's your toys. Don't worry want they. They set it up the almost the exact way we had before and then it just described back to routine. Yeah and then a year later. It happens yet year later. Number two mine is our neighbor. Banging on our door is time. Yeah What time do they start to say? Do they start as if it's going to happen again but so strange what time it was it around same time at night about around the same time and we were doing the exact same thing? We did the year prior to Jamestown to get the kids Halloween costumes and then we stopped and got. I believe it was New York style pizza and then we were streaming supernatural. I'll actually was linked pie that I bought. Yeah and literally right about the same time it again are like what is going through your head as are you like this is not even real not at all like. I'm really thinking that someone the second time. I really thought I was just playing a prank on. I mean the first the first time I understand because our neighbor Josh was a vet ranger ludd though but like he comes bang on our door and Mary and Frank. You're downstairs Nash. Nyerere upstairs and new like Mir's Daddy's someone's banging on our door all right so I grabbed my my my firearm cave. You never fucking never know Black Guy White. It happens so I go downstairs. I'm like open the door and I see him. Chuck Shit Out of a second story window like what's up and he's like Dude Fire. Look down and you can see the smoke coming out of the kitchen window. And I'm like fuck this ash. Get the kids get out. I got the cat. Yeah so like I run over advocates for an chase. Roundhouse from like you know. Insert Benny Hill music here. Right Grabber Chaser. Thermic Thorugh in the car screw. Yeah and then you know kids pulling out there. Go inspect the first. The billing on fire them like Ari. I know they have dogs. Someone might be home. It's unlocked which was weird. Yeah so walk in the stove is it's mealy soon as you walk in the kitchen. It's refrigerator small key piece of counter and then the oven stove. That's where the fire is so I'm like all right. Well go past that too little hallway with teacher to the living room. Which as staircase going upstairs you know our goes to the edge of living room with the light on. Hey listen anybody's here's a fire new kitchen to need to get out. Yeah wait. There's a fire in your kitchen on a black man and you hallway. Don't you you mentioned killing anyway? So my fire in a kitchen you need to get out Wake Dogs Yeah silent which is Weird. Because you know how canines are the for. Yeah especially if they're in a Kennel. Yeah there's something going on and they're all should have been making noise when he walked in the door to that strike you at all. That I thought was weird because I was told me when we got home that they cheat seen coming out and they left all three of them which are not away three but now my in any so like so. They weren't home and I'm like all right. Well you know just go run. Run run broke motions. She how it's going Mike an art. Nobody's here Maybe they took their dog somewhere leagues under. They were trying to move out. Your anything back out may trash. The kids got out. And Josh and I started evacuating the building. Right kicking doors in his fun. I'd bet door I recommended at least once in your life. I feel like breaching doors should be my coping mechanism. Offer THE IDEA I. It would cost a lot because I would need a lot of doors brightest when you frame the door you just pass bolted to the ground practice law all my rage the cool. Oh year indoors and in straight. That's what I would have been doing a one right. But he cleared a week cleared our billing and then we cleared the next building because fighters jump right How long was the response? Time like from the time that Mary says. There's somebody banging on our door to the tiny. I saw a fire truck it was Fr. Oh it felt like forever yet only because of everything that was going on I mean we were too big. We were literally. Just make sure everyone's clear great at that point. We cleared building clear the previous building. We've been cleared the four bedroom across from them. Yeah just in case just in case We had a lot of good support from our neighbors we. We were pretty pretty tight knit moving. They're kind of Nice. Yeah it didn't feel like too long with it again do not. I'M NOT FOCUSED. Les Time when you're going through something and I'm not saying it was like traumatic necessarily but anything that's like a traumatic style event. Time gets either slowed way down or try to do. I mean the comedic thing about it was literally tried to take a mop bucket to get him. I feel it I got I got Appanage WATER I'm my Gosh I tried. My efforts are done. What again here by working and then it was. I mean in good times. The second fire was a little bit less chaotic. Because the Fire Department Kinda knew what they were doing at this point right now. The finger cut the whole this far much. Got The whole fire through the roof containing in one building. Yeah Laois you know. You're not kicking in doors is three is gonNA say. Yeah. Oh yeah about. The only redeeming quality is the entire thing. Yeah Fire Suck. Yeah ours. We need like a destroy. And what do they call those where you get to go in for like fifteen minutes with a hammer and just destroy all stuff that one do they. I know they haven't scape room now. I WanNa see right across from the poster. Annoy saw building was like a the strike. Either escape rumored structural. I can't remember I need to get on. Ac is good I mean. Of course I can't bring my my firearm in New York. Man would yeah. I'll still take a hammer. I'll take a sledgehammer and just destroy all the China Day. All Day long fifteen minutes is not even enough like fifteen minutes is just getting started the appetizer. I'm just warming up bitches here. I come so the the second one wasn't it was almost like an old hat at that point pretty much. I mean it was kind of just you know we had already gone through the motions and you know asset in the news interview because apparently everybody saw that and people were very upset that my first response was not again Why were they upset about that mall? It's amazing because I guess people felt like I was being insensitive about the other residence Which I mean and to the extent them not knowing the full story behind it right get rain so if any of your listening could host you it. No hard feelings as what it is But you know having gone through it just exactly. You're before unlike round to not offered as player on his left again yeah You know but people felt that was insensitive because you know people people lost things. People were not necessarily hurt. The lady who was WHO's apartment. Burn heads with spoken hellacious and things like that so she. They treated her critically But she was fine which wonderful and she's doing better Ken But guest when people saw the news report they felt that I was being insensitive because of that risk because of because of that my initial comment. And in a somebody always has something to say in their office warriors. Yeah but again. It is what it is. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and you know they don't know the full story behind it. Would you know despite that common? We did check on everybody. We got everybody out. We did everything to make sure everyone was safe. And out of the way. But that's crazy so they can you guys how you were much more displaced this time because you you had an option to move back to that building So he they didn't as far as I know there wasn't anything open. I mean red. Cross helped us out with you. Know giving US Gift Card for whatever we needed stuff No you in love. Our friends offered their their place to stay in him at that point the second fire. Two's enough yeah. We're all done with us now. We want shame on exact twice. I'm an idiot Eh. Done here now. Hassle Man Yeah so just now crash. Friends figured out the next move. And how long did you spend between the fire and how it was it? I mean it literally has been about three months hasn't it? Plus you'll said longer October. October was the fire. Ashton accused State with bill and Loretta. And then I crashed with Marcus because the cats God and we just got into this frontal place this mom. Yeah so yeah. It's it's been three or four phones. Yeah that's crazy living with living with friends. How do the kids tolerate that? Did you have a lot? Did you notice like behavioral issues or any kind of issues with the lack of like routine or yes and no married frank your creature or creatures of habit? But they're also mean there they they being fluid for me. It's I adopted every situation aims. They they responded the same. You know the bedtime dearly didn't change all that much thing that changed. Was there sleeping environment and in a few minute. Yeah a time changes right. They responded resilient. They're very adaptable. And I blame. I sell an ash ashes. If if I'm not home. She's the drill sergeant. Yeah Nice Yeah keep them give them some order and they're consistent routinely. Yeah I know a minor just gone off the handle. It's because our routine has been shattered in some way. Yeah creatures once you break. The routine is kind of hard to figure out what's next man. Military wise being a plan never goes according ever goes. According to plan you plan it literally falls apart rally initiated so see. I picture the military being like. We know everything that's going to happen. And we are prepared and this is our routine and you know those are now It it's it's absolutely and you'll hear any vet say this is an absolute shit show. She chose our favorite term. Because it is accurate. Yeah but Now the kids have been pretty resilient. A lot of things can change. Transitioning from built his house to Marcus's living Ray was a little rough on them. Hugo's they don't have as they didn't have as much from building Reda's right and then they have no room now so we're all confined to this tiny little space. May the best we can of it. Ray They troopers. Leave the House. You have now has four bedrooms right. Oh my gosh. Is this the first time they've ever had their own rooms? Yes yeah what are they like? What was their response when you guys. I looked at the house where they like initially might I went and saw it. I can't scouted out because we had there was no help. I mean we tried getting our own house in the process fell through on didn't help So it was back to renting and then he had a two bedroom apartment the duplex open. Check that out. He's like well. I have a four bedroom on opening up soon And Mike say what? Now let me see that. Show me after four weeks of waiting we got. I got to check it out. I like all right. I know this is a different thing. We have an actual house say the first our own the first time we've had a personal space of our rights God before I joined the military. Yeah after that we were crashing with family and friends search connor. They never had their own space Once I told them they had their own their had their own rooms. My God Mary was a staff I just picture a little face only got her absolutely lit up like I gotta she could have cried craft rainbows at the same time. She would have done it. I love her. She was happy. Frankie was frankly was excited. I yeah he's really little so he probably was like okay whatever. It was different for him because he was. He's not used to having his own room. When it's especially with a bigger bigger home is a little afraid. It just takes some transition but now they're they're super excited. They have their own spaces. You guys have been in there for what two weeks not to combat charities? And they're doing well. Oh yeah they're they're they're adjusting. Frankie stole a little hesitant on going anywhere by himself or being in a one certain floor by even kids now and this was my grant. This was their grandma's house. My Mom's house now we live here. I mean they are familiar. They've been familiar with this House since the day they were born but they still won does not wanna be down here without someone else in there as so. I think that's just a developmental thing. You know that too in for anyone who's on a spiritual side you know and you can go some pair. Things tend to converse more with kids because there are a lot more open to idea. Yeah it's our standards. He asked him hats Now he's but he's gotten better a lot better with no bring the cats and they were little there. Yeah cats did they. Immediately high what issue which issue was the only one who was kind of stationary to a couple of rooms and a physically carry her upstairs. Her acclimate took her a couple of days. Sailing other hand now his bill now find out is she is she. Is She also near the first story with that one in? Oh God one time funds arms so we had no idea how to sex a cat. Yeah so my guy will do it because you know everything. Yeah and like okay. We'll around six month mark. You look at this place and you look for this thing Mike. Okay so Marcus House around midnight. I'm chasing the cat around the fucking trailer saying show your shit off your genitals. Finally catcher and I'm like I always wonder if cats could write memoirs. What kind of relationship do we actually have? Good tried to look at my balls today. It was so weird until they go to jail some like all right cool let me see. I'm like okay. This is supposed to be a little space. Here's will fluff and like Hon. I'm pretty sure salems a girl you sheriffs like I mean that would net. According to Youtube in this producers is a girl But we'll go with that shirt so we continued going or he and then she got into heat and that's new the confirmation. That's when I knew. Yeah I'm fucked up. You know it's experience your first female cat in there like in the air. Yeah no cat. No thank you no. Thank you get a fix calm down so salem a little less a little less and more just climb in your face and sticker button you've I hate that to him. She's scheduled to get fixed very shortly. Again it's going to be one way she. She hasn't she hasn't been terrible. Mortician was bad really bad he was not pleasant bad loud. I mean cats. She stalked me and followed me around and just thinks her. But and I'm like I don't WanNa see your Pinko not how this relationship Work Party. No listen I was okay with you. Demanding e scoop and fill your bowl necessarily interested in of our relationship. Richest Band is Martin. Animal I mean you'll get the occasional cuddle when you want to write. It's always on their terms. Sales go pain in the ASS above Shiva every morning like clockwork She's in my bed. Wake us up a high because I feed them in the morning and it's just like what my ashes like nuzzling and I'm like listen. Get Yeah I love you to death. I will kill you and can you that a first Chinese restaurants. He'd you to a coyote. I am not afraid of you watching know I will I will preheat debris fifty and we'll see how this works because I'm not interested in senior but they love to show you their butts. Bros the demons. I'm pretty sugar demands. You know what I wouldn't doubt it had all right L. Speaking of the I thought about this for a long time. The have you ever read the one about the The Vet Hospitals at adopted a skinless cat. No after finding show too. Yeah but it. Basically basically goes to the port of they adopted the skinless cat and it skinless referrallist furlough some trials okay. I'm like well. No because his words that sound Super Weird and I'm interested in having one now I mean it's it's Mr Bugles worth. Yeah so like this cat. Little discount does its own thing and sits around but apparently whenever no noses when a furloughs cat sits down on a glass service when they when they stand up there is the suction yes suction pump the. Oh my God so. Apparently this cat does that Suction pop oh no. There's a but pucker. Stick stay of a table where the cast so literally now it comes to the point it ends with. Anti Iron. Got Back to La the GAD's stock at the table again. Oh my God. They're so weird and gross sales. They are who'll there so angry Yeah all the time but I mean being nude is wonderful when you're when when that were near human 'cause we're so constricted right. They're always naked. But yeah when they're fully exposed. I hate my life to yeah. I'd look that way to buy me. What are we WANNA maintaining it now? I'm going to picture that forever. We're GONNA see one. Oh I'm Salah that you guys are settled in like finally. It's it's it's a transition. Yeah I it's it's it's comforting to know that we actually have a space now. Yeah now I'm now more focused on maintaining. Yeah and possibly hope hopefully keeping. Yeah I mean he was. The land was open to the idea of maybe a rental own other We'll see again. It's a big enough house rain or the space than we need. Yeah I'm jealous. You guys even have a space for an office. Plus everybody gets on rooms. Route isn't heat in that room. Make it work. Yeah get a space heater. That's where I would hide. Keep the door open. It warms up pretty quick. I wouldn't even tell my kids there. I would tell them. There's no heat and here you don't want to come in here and I go in there and decide with the space heater. It's Kinda were we're at with an office space askin whenever my tower back or. I'll just buy a new one. Yeah get set that up with an office he kinda fun Jealous Soothing and so how are they doing in school? This is Frankie's first year kindergarten rate for his first year. He's a excellent. Does Wanna you kids a Wiz. He he he's smarter than leads on. He's very quiet and that's how you know he's smart because he's watching everything is and just keeping it all started a he. He plays the fool he has that. He has that behavioral thing where he's like Nah WanNa because he knows if he wants long enough. Yeah you'll just do. Yeah and I'm like no this not no not at all. Yeah I see that Enough Ed Morgan at Behavioral Center that Yeah Yeah now there. They love school. That's author always happy to go and these guys freedom isn't that much fun to watch that star. It's deterrent transitions of mainland. Yeah the the the growth is just. It's one of the things is appearing. You're like yeah. All Right. They start becoming a person that you can actually have a weird conversation with their. There's so much fun as they get older. Oh Yeah Yeah I mean I think now I just started teaching Frank. Showing Frankie this The Safety of firearms. Yeah I leave mine mine at home you know and I taught him Mary. You know to tell when it's safe when it's loaded and you know so every time I go to unloaded. I'm like draw magazine right. Jack around for the MAG slide keeps live like an empty. They can see through like okay empty. I'm like okay. Click is a safe. No can you tell because I see the red dot safety's not that's some. I'm trying promoted early. Yeah it's one of those hands man. Everyone's everyone's like all firearms are so scary. You know yeah I mean I. It's yeah we I mean. My Dad always had shotguns in his rifles muzzleloader. Rena for hunting. But we never had it in the house. I never you know it just was never a thing that we did so. I don't know how to teach my kids about how to be safer on a gun because I don't know anything about guns so that's why I was always hesitant. You know I was like you need to keep them in the basement. 'cause they don't know and I don't know and we just don't you know in the completely. Just yeah the idea. It's the best thing to do. My stepdad wants to teach the girls how to shoot like a twenty two. And I'm on board. I'm glad you know I'm very happy that they're going to learn how to do it and do it. Safely they should. I mean I mean at least if not whether they have an interest or not. Yeah they should at least know. It's a skill. Yeah it's one of those things that you know. They can kind of tell on on on the fly especially with you know. Have any having any interaction with fire right. They teach the very very basic safe not safe. Not Safe loaded not loaded. Yeah you know right. Would every every kid should leaves? No the back. I always think ahead to like I think of like okay. If life becomes the walking dead. What SKILLS DO I have? That are GONNA be valuable and it doesn't need to be like we don't need to turn it into a Zombie thing I use that because it's accessible like people get like the but I'm saying even if we were to lose some infrastructure and we were in a situation where we needed to rely on ourselves a lot more than we already do what skills you have in those little skills that are really really useful exactly and I'm glad I'm not the only person now I don't yeah more shallow was a thing people remember that. Shit. It can't happen while the. Us has never really seen any kind of you know situation here. It's always overseas so we don't have an idea of what that actually can be like but sheltered. Yeah really are yeah. I mean yeah the very basics at least keep teaching the small. The small skills may nothing else. You know how to tell whether weapons safe or not or whether it's loaded or really all basics. Yeah that don't pointed people dear God. I Yeah I get frustrated like there's some and it's I know they're just toys but like I'll see kitto playing with a toy gun and like just casually shooting you know air shooting. His friends in the bay sound like us. Not Someone has not sat down and really talk to you about seriousness. Frankie struggling with that a little bit too but but he isn't understanding Riley even with his little toy guns my hey listen you know that one hundred people's faces right to if you're not going to shoot that person with a darker than pointed out. Yeah yeah and he's learning. Yeah yeah well I mean you can. Just you can tell the kids whose parents have never even really broach the subject with them from the kids whose parents have because they are. They're aware and it's interesting to see that awareness Muslims is the thing. Yeah see frank you pick up any this NERF guns is instinct is his finger on the trigger to fire. That's awesome the first thing. That's what Donald Yeah like yet gonNA try to instill that right now that we don't have to worry about it. That's cool. Yeah I like it out to you. Your twenty eighteen is now twenty twenty. What has your experience been like racially. Because it's an I I I am always fascinated here. What it's like because I have a sense of what I think it's like but I'm not a minority so I don't actually know you know I mean I can think about it but it's I mean I've traveled around especially in the south. Like you mean like you know being a being a different a different race or anything in this office. It's like they're they have this other hospitality. Thing is is true. Know every everyone is a person. drawing of in a big city. Where you're constantly integrated like you don't think about it and like you know. Racism was a joke right us because we were like. We're like how's that existing when you live in but in a big city right you have a choice right. You're kind of just like yeah. Moving here to a smaller town with older tradition. It's been interesting experience. I mean I'm one of the. I'm I'm a biracial. I'm a I'm a mixed breed. Yeah I'm literally a fucking which is fine. Yeah no I've I've learned accepted but the league. Nobody like if somebody does have issues with that. They're not like care they're going to be like. That's all black star. No one has been vocal. Which is really which is all really asking for an opinion. That's fine right. Keep it to yourself if you want to approach me. That's fine ranges. Do it to the sign. Yeah we'll handle it you know how adult should handle But it it's been mostly just look San the occasional veer off to the left or right which is fine. Yeah whatever you know you. Do you WanNa do what I gotTa do? And yes that's it It's weirder having mixed kids. Yeah in a town is predominantly Caucasian. Because you know they're not sure how to tell but once they see me in this he ashen than they get a Geek I can. I can see the look interface. Yes it's it's evident. Yeah but you goes on spoken. It's still an element. Which for me. It's hilarious yeah. I mean being being a product of you know of of of mixed heritage is cottages. You look I'm you're like man really. Is this really happening or do we? We'd better things to worry here than the fact that I'm tanner thing. All right the sun's more I call him by. We're friends. Yeah get over it or buddies but Yeah it's Kinda weird too. 'cause can't make sir. I try not to make certain jokes in public. I don't know who around is receptive to that kind of thing. Right case in point we were bowling. The work league McConnell at the men's Wa publishes a All predominantly all Jamie White Vice. So Bob and I obviously have a very good relationship. We're very open. No and you know I can probably crack the the worst joke in existence pay and so we start talking. And he's got and the other team is just conversation. I guess like they go to say something that would mean ratio. Look look at me and then. Kinda quiet down. Yeah so bob and I just start cracking jokes yes the Kinda Open. Loosen it up. The the. The expression on their faces was amazing. Yeah it's the Mot- The funniest thing they're like what's happened to like. Oh what's we can't actually. You're a person that is rational weakening we can. We can say these things. Yeah I think I think like especially people who've never left Warren. If you've left Warren for a certain amount of time you are you know a completely different world view. But I think people who've never loved were like I don't know what to say and I don't know what I'm going to get behind her so I'm just going to say anything weird. Go to change this. The in the integration rate is about the same as a large city right. Just go there and hang offer. That's said like if you are not if you don't have any kind of experience of when I was in Erie. I had a lot of experiences where I was the only white face in a crowd and that does not mean that I know anything about being minority but in that context I understand felt like in that context and so you know I feel like you have to have those experiences. I mean everyone should I mean? I'm not saying that you know everyone should do it. Just because it's fair right now. Everyone should. Should you know literally personally feel? It's experience high feels. Yeah not necessarily that. It has to be an make a dramatic point in her life. Which is GonNa get that that yeah like? I'm I'm different. Yeah in this crown. Yes it's a really. I think it's something that I don't know for me. I'd be like I want people to feel that way because so many many opinions and I'm like okay. That's fine. Have your opinion. Just have this experience to use. That can form your opinion exact. You know I I. I've lived a mantra all my life. It is what it is. I O have enough shit going on in my life guard is just too much to hold onto hatred much to hold on. You have your opinion. That's fine just don't act on and if you do make me and not my kids ray. Exactly the kids run into anything. Not that I've experienced. Nash said she spotted a couple people giving them odd. Looks and were in. Its racial couple but you know I I always there. I've always dared to believe that people are better than that But also to I put on the appearance of I will fucking and you one. I'm a vet right. I wear the heck. Yeah you know. It's just the universal. Some people are like. Oh you serve with gag on to I openly carry. Yeah just because it's my right. Do so aggie. What here could do that. Jerseys paperwork. Yeah here it's more free. Yeah I'm going to do Mary not two and three threat. My kids I will end. You know fans rain but I mean now. The kids haven't experienced it and that's kind of what that's what I'm proud of. Yes as long as my kids don't have to see the ugliness overlay law old times lingering. Yeah yeah that's good. That's good news. I always curious because I know you know the people in my family even And growing up without a lot of experience of diversity and I worry when people don't leave and people don't have those experiences with Lynn. You know they. They live with what they hear when they see the news and they read but none of that shit so yeah it's also sensationalized and it's also Targeted to make a certain point isn't necessarily the larger point political agenda. Then they want aid. They mean to reach any means necessary. And it is whatever's yeah again if any of you're listening in you are offended Go Fuck Yourself. I'm sorry that you are offended but I'm not sorry that your hat right. Yeah well I've thinking about this the other day I had one interview and someone used the first name of a person that they were with. And you know I I have been really ruminating for the past probably week and my offending people and then I thought if people are offended that just means that you need to check your own biopsies. That doesn't mean that other people need to change to not offend you. It means need to check where that's coming from. Exactly I mean everyone's entitled to their opinion and entitled to what they believe right just because you don't agree doesn't mean you have to force them to see your way they may. They may see how you know. Get where you're coming from the change their belief to make you feel better. Yeah no if you feel that an adequate there are other things probably were not just just your indicator that you have something else to deal with an it has probably very little to do with what you're offended by eggs. Yeah exactly right on the on the better note of the racism side of it So the lady. Yes that this lady her she said I can just tell already. This is going to be a girl. She was still Schuessel. Nice so I started the started working with the newspaper for a few months. And I you know you always know but how our officers set up four desks. Yeah at the time there were two females and it was the only male in the room. Were the first people you see when you walk in the door. So I'm just at my desk doing work and Liz lady walks into his papers and she stops and I could feel an awkward silence like she had some sort of realization. Yeah and she's like. Oh my God. There's a black I say and immediately I'm choking on spit high not to laugh because it is that is it was the most authentic genuine you see. I'd ever around. What am I gonNA? I'M GONNA say probably like forties and like she runs around round. The desk runs up. Hugs me and she's like. Oh my God so I see a person of color in the neighborhood. Now you've been here and going through the SPIEL welcoming committee. She really is on trying. Not to untie like it's and and the CO worker is just like looking at me and like. She's just like shock. I don't know what to do. She's no idea how to respond to it. Yeah and delayed going on and on and this eventually buys a paper. She came to gay and she leaves and is the moment. I see her clear clear eyesight. I've fallen for and I am crying rolling on the floor. Ribs about a birth Ri- skin is laughing brightest. I'm dislike. That was probably the best experience I've ever had in my life. Yeah and she's like I'm offended for you. How are you not only listen? I come from a large city. Yeah in integrations of thing. Yeah it's fine if it feels like Warren is also cartoons. Sometimes sometimes it really does feel like they're coming from you know the largest city to the small town. It's it's definitely different. Yeah everyone kind of knows everybody. Everybody kind of knows everything. Yeah small town vibes like just that alone. Just set the whole set the standard right. It was one of she set the bar really high and allegations. She is a customer now. Uk -sually you're still on the street so she's like hey how you doing. I have awesome so funny. That's awesome guys obviously like ear. Everything's been really good very well. You say in for a little bit at least. Let's go Altiplano. Moving again yeah. I'm tired of moving. Yeah moons for the birds. You've moved you many times in the Best Years Migrate Dacha. Yeah we're we're stuck. He stuck with us I'll take you won't allow it. You're in welcome to the club. Go kids that's awesome. I don't feel like I really need to summarize brings up so very much but if you couldn't tell is a super awesome dude and if you're ever rolling pastimes observer you should stop in and tell him he's frigging awesome if you're digging. Franks episode and thought it ended too soon. There's about another forty five minutes of tape in which Frank Discusses being deployed and all of the things you learned overseas and a bunch of stuff and you can unlock that. Content by visiting patriarch dot com slash. Two MOMS day drinking the music for this podcast was written and produced by my father bog gross on his Goddamn Electric Ukulele. Stacey gross and this has been two months day drinking see next week.

Donald Yeah Frankie Franks Mary Mike Marcus House Youtube Stacey gross Ashley New York Warren Sheriff Frank Cough Warren County property manager Lin Manuel Miranda Nash Frank Talks
Episode 11 Teaser - Mommin' Vs. Daddin III - Frank Williams

Two Moms Day Drinking

05:15 min | 10 months ago

Episode 11 Teaser - Mommin' Vs. Daddin III - Frank Williams

"Yeah well will allow it. You're in welcome to day. Did Coke is that's awesome. Oh my God that that was a wonderful time. Yeah awesome I I mean. I don't really have any other questions but what I mean. Is there anything else regarding parents? Hang or anything that you would WANNA say because a lot of people I mean like I think that would be a good story and I would like to ask them about that but then they get here and it turns into something totally different. I don't like direct the entire thing not not at all. I mean please do because I will definitely tie rant on about four different subjects and then forget. Why don't we start over again? It usually. That's usually the best ones type of too. Yeah absolutely wonderful to go with the subject of parenting. It's definitely been an experience. Yeah Did you want to have kids? I always ask people this question. Did you always plan on that as part of your life? Honestly I really don't know yeah I mean I kinda just always gone through life. Connor just going through the motions and yeah take it as it comes. Yeah and you know everyone. I've been with conscious like yeah. I kind of want kids at some point light. All right cool do yeah. Amy bobbed up all right. Well Fatherhood is awesome. I can do this. This is down. Yeah and then life happened. Mary L. Lashed Than Mary was born. Relationship was a little rough in the beginning. Yeah you know false with my own. Not going along. It's always two ways. It's never just one way. But that's the whole thing about if live with relationships. I've noticed today still struggle with that. This is like remember that you're going to struggle. You're GONNA have issues. You're yeah you're GonNa have things that are going to go wrong. It's going to be scary. It's GonNa be hard and you gotta you gotTa work together. Yeah that's biggest thing about. It is communication. I'm struggling with this shit. Yeah communication is not my strong suit. I've always been the strong silence. I have to Kinda just handle it on my own and keep moving forward. Yeah That can be hard. I mean to make a relationship work. You have to be willing to like get real watery with another person and Kinda you know you have to. I mean it's it's hard you have to kind of be fluid with it and as you said and compromise is the biggest is the biggest thing in a relationship and ash and I have been through a lot of that and you know but then she'll tell you but since I deployed our relationship has grown exponentially because it's it we had a rocky start. You know I wasn't always the best person to be with Still clinging on my past and things like that and a lot of mistakes and so is she in you. Forgive on you learn. I mean I think you go through those times and then you grow together. And that's the point. That's yeah that's kind of where it where it all is. And after the point we have gotten a lot better. Is THAT LIKE ABSENCE. Made the heart grow fonder. Do you think more or less. You know 'cause temptation for me wasn't there yeah. I was gone able to appreciate what I had and kind of see things at different different perspective. Because I wasn't there right to experience. How long have you guys been together when you were deployed? God twenty seventeen. We were married a going on years really Mary. Two thousand nine okay. She has been together for a long time for your deployed. It wasn't like a brand new not not at all not at all and then separation was I think joining is gonNA say. Do you feel like it was almost like a separation like do you feel like more or less and do you feel like if you hadn't been deployed you feel like there may have been a separation experience at some point and maybe that's too personal. I don't know I'm just curious if that Kinda served a purpose for you that you guys didn't have to go the route of separation because it was manufactured. Almost I mean like we know we we. We've had fights where like we thought you know. Is this really really it right but you know being being separated again. I was able to Kinda see when a what I was doing. I was taking for granted. I know trying to understand where she were. She's coming from because I'm not a very strong emotional person. Yeah I'm not yeah. I'm kind of at shut down. I kind of just like okay. Yeah all right continuing move on right. She another hand is William He. She using motion rollercoaster. Yeah it's it's growth. Yeah that's that's cool that I mean it's not cool that you're deployed is not cool but I almost feel like that's maybe something that was supposed to happen for you till I think from the believe everything that's meant that aptitudes.

Mary L. Lashed Coke Connor William He Amy
99: Johnny Dumfries, the aristocrat racer who was team mate to Senna

F1: Beyond The Grid

57:22 min | 3 months ago

99: Johnny Dumfries, the aristocrat racer who was team mate to Senna

"Hi. I'm Johnny Dumfries and you're listening to beyond the grid. Hello and welcome to be on the grades with me. Tom. Clocks. The world of Formula One attracts all sorts a team. These days has up to thirty different nationalities in it of which some people are multimillionaires and that's predominantly drivers some highly paid members of management and some in fact most but just normal people working all hours to grind out a living. Just occasionally though you get someone who breaks the mold, remember the exuberant shown Pierre Van, Rossum the boss of onyx in the late eighty s or Don. Nickles. The owner of shadow in the seventy s who was allegedly a former CIA operative there's been blueblood to. Nor hesketh ran his eponymous ASLI named F. One team in the seventy s and lots of drivers have shunned their wealth of family connections to join the F one circus Prince Beer. Alfonso Depot Tago TAFEA Ron trips to name a few from the fifties and sixties and more recently that was Johnny Dumfries who I'm delighted to say is my guest this week. Janis official title is John Crichton Stuart the seventh Marcus of Butte. He's a descendant of the famed King of Scotland Robert the Bruce. But if you think is route to the talk was easy on that basis think again for Johnny was determined to make his own path working as a painter and decorator among other things before Formula One and even driving a van and doing odd jobs for the Williams team. He splits his time these days between the family seat in dumfries in Scotland. Hence, the alias Johnny Dumfries and his house in London, and he no longer has any connection to the sports f one fans will remember him for his season. Lotus. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, six alongside the Great Airton Center. Although Janis of days came at Lamont two years later when he won the race Jagua alongside yen llamas and Andy Wallace. Johnny season that Lotus didn't work out as he devote. Well, we bags a couple of points finishes in Hungary Australia. We should be under no illusions about his pace. Okay. He wasn't and center, but Johnny was still one of the fastest drivers of his generation. He dominated the British Formula Three Championship in nineteen, eighty, four winning fourteen races, and in the six months that followed he tested for five different Formula One teams including. McLaren. And Ferrari at the end of eighty four, he had the racing world that his fate and had he made better decisions who knows what he might have achieved. You'll hear more from this from the man himself in just a minute. Johnny isn't big on talking about his racing career. In fact, he's hardly ever done it since he retired until now historians unique I. Hope You enjoy our conversation. When we talk about racing johnny it's been. Cosby thirty years since you hung up your helmet, how do you reflect on your racing career? Thirty years. That's absolutely bizarre. And you know it seems like another life which in many ways it was. When I reflect on it, it's with Gripe from this I. Love My career taught me a hell of a lot and it was just a fantastic experience. And you know anybody who gets into a professional sport gets into it because it starts with a passion and the passion is it I'm a two level that does change in shifter's as one becomes a professional. And he felt that in my own career that my emotional feelings about the sport changed when I was professional but it was an enormous part of my life and you know I made mistakes I would rather know of those mistakes. My career could have been more successful, but it is what it is and I wouldn't change anything when you say it took you a lot. Can you just elaborate a bit on that? What kind of things did the world of racing and maybe Formula One in particular? Teach you reach a high? Resilience. Think about the way the people start out people start rising either in club racing or counting, and you know when you'll racing Karts, you'll look off your machinery and it's real proper grassroots racing is a massive amounts of cameraderie. People help each other out people share information about circuits they share information about the technical setup so that machines. And I used to go racing with nights and it was a really bonding experience. Then as I progressed through the ranks up into the the highest formulas, I just gained an enormous amounts of experience in terms of. Dealing with people and being self sufficient, and it's just enormously valuable than. replaceable relly and I'm sure that people in other sports have similar feelings about that. We will have to start somewhere. Don't wait the so much to US keeper I want to start. If I can by saying I want you to imagine you're about to embark on a qualifying lap in that nine, hundred, eighty, six. Ninety ninety-eight t maybe hungry you went on and scored points there but you've got more than a thousand brake horsepower India right for what's going through your mind. Let. Sky. Freon Lines The engine doesn't blow up cost so much boost. Blister because you've got so much grip. What goes through your mind it's. Massive amounts of focus. On the wool not lapse. and. Very aware that I WANNA get the WOM- up lot price and in qualifying. Mostly. About getting the right amount of temperature the tires. And you just go to nail it. You just got to. Neyla. Whether a corners. That a difficult may be rice SPEC, you can be considerably quicker in his corners in qualifying trim and you go to take the I distrust of the neck and. Just get. How difficult was it to do that? Because I've heard other drivers, Gerhard Berger for example, saying that those mid eighteen turbo cars were bonkers just so difficult to drive in Johnny. Let's face it. You made it difficult for yourself because. You made your formula on debut in one of those cars alongside arguably the greatest driver oval time. I mean when you reflect back on it, it really was hard. Fi. Wasn't it? Yeah. But listen I don't WanNA. Make excuses I mean bug is right. Monster size 'cause they were ridiculous. But. You know they will also incredibly exhilarating to drive and yeah, it was a compromising situation lights us. I would have been better off from a beginning my career with another team but didn't happen happen it. Had the entire team around him but you know I had a great relationship, my rice engineer, Tim them and You know it wasn't easy driving alongside center. It wasn't but you on that you go. I had my chance and didn't really work out for me and F one so that you got for people who don't know just explain how the opportunity came about the options you came about through performance in one, thousand, nine, hundred, four in the British boom, the three championship. In what was then known as the European F Three Championship I won the British Ninety full and I was a very close runner up to Yvonne Capelli in the European. So I gave a good account myself in a domestic and effectively an international championship. Now, having said that. You know obviously, you know we were talking about one hundred, sixty horsepower. Formula Three cause. A huge step into one. And there was A. Lot of interest in me. From various F one team certain loads gave me a test and test was at Donington and it went well, there was a spot that came available Lotus I know that Derek Warwick was was lined up for that. And to be quite honest with you looking back on it and looking at the circumstances and looking at my experience at the time, they would have been better off giving that drive to warrick and I would in better off having had a better year ninety five because it was the end of Formula Two's you remember. Beginning of formed the free thousands three, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, five was an absolute joke. And I didn't have a decent drive. So I didn't give good. ACCOUNTA- myself, and I didn't have enough experience with more horsepower, but the low to strive fell into my lap and. It down was I. I suppose you never you never know if you're GonNa get another opportunity, you don't. But Tony as you say, I mean, I'm going to put a little bit more flesh on the bone there at the end of eighty four. As you say, you'd won the British Formula Three Championship come a very close second in the European Formula Three Championship and I think you tested for five formula? One teams in about the space of six months I mean you really were than expect thing you tested from Clarin you tested for Lotus as you say, you went and tested Brabham the Ferrari, the Williams. You had so much going on. It seems extraordinary that just eighteen months down the road. You were effectively the second choice to at work at Lotus. Well, let's put that into context. The McClellan drive was the price when in championship and the Williams drive was a very last minute saying. Williams, heads. Of Ai pay who they want to drive that coast. Engine car which was a superb car because Roessberg won the championship in wasn't. The Oh eight I think. Was Right and that was at Donington and. I didn't have fitting or anything and they asked me to give it a but two women. Person An end to give him some tips on driving socket, and then at the end of the day, they said look back in the car and fresh around the see what? You get out of. was roughly around the bloody cockpit like a pay and applaud because I didn't have a prophecy. So that's not what I would call a protest either on the Bravo test was a protest and that was down Kylo May and I didn't get to drive the Ferrari until I signed a testing contract with them I never should assign that testing contract with them. It was a big mistake because it led Noah and I had other options that would have been specify career. Okay. So did you sign the testing contract was at the sort of bright lights and slightly dazzled by the magic of Ferrari absolutely, and I had advises at the time I didn't have a manager. So I'm tone but I had advises at the time. Who was telling me to take the Ferrari drive and I was still young relatively naive and I. The Ferrari drive driving it was a mistake I didn't learn enough. What assurance is did they give you in terms of the program you were going to do for them they said it was it was the full cylinder engine developments program and that was all linkage to the regulations that all chain stores we're GONNA come into full unless those regulations didn't and they show the program I think anyone now maybe half a dozen times still let's rejoice in the the good. Things about. Harari you say you've been there half a dozen times I mean can you remember the first time you pitched up in Maranello and the impression the? Place made on you those incredible the facilities amazing. The only f one team with its own test track, and then the history you know the history is inescapable. You know the whole place, the whole area town of Modena it's all about Ferrari. Did you ever meet the old man Enzo? Ferrari. He was still alive at the time. Yeah I did. I. Did I went into that darkened office and the he was you know like like a king like. With. His shades on and. It's a very striking place because the whole office complex it's it's quite minimal. The office is quite bare. It's just he is the you know the man's the and. Now we had a very quick view and Piccinini was translating and he signed a copy of his book logic GMT for me and sent me on my way. I mean, if engine program hadn't been scrapped, do you think you would have gotten more mileage and and it would have worked out or do you think it was always the wrong decision I think it was the wrong decision. But if the engine program hadn't been shelved, it could've walked out differently. Who knows what we're talking the sort of the big personalities in the sport? Did you ever meet Bernie? Bernie ecclestone through the Brabham Lincoln the test at Killarney Yeah that that was interest. Very. Interesting. So he contracted lately and I can't remember it must have been a member of his admin stuff but I was contacted instead. told if I wanted to guns tests a problem, I should make bunny and I'd been off by Rothmans who is sponsoring the Pool WGC team time to go and drive the cameras cod down in Melbourne the thousands of rice at the old sandown park, which is literally the West Rice, suck of driven. Away. Was that your first experience of sports cars yeah. It was and I wasn't keen on a tool it felt horribly claustrophobic. So I said I'd love to meet Bundy but I'm in Australia gun see him soon as I get back because shortly after I got by. The Kylie test stopping. So I think it was the weekend Iran's bunnies flat at that time, which was on that some that apartment building on the corner of London embankment and the he wasn't he was incredibly. Incredibly friendly and. He said to me well, you go to sign a testing contract with me if you WANNA drive one of my 'cause you know if we agree that nothing happens off to that I give you my word I'll rip up the contract. So I said fine. Okay. So I signed the contract and I went down skyline and did the test. and. PK was the anterior. Experienced a munster like I had terrible about like how did the tests go in terms of? Did you get a proper amount of mileage we working through a particular program? The remember whether I was working for a particular program it was A. Tartus as I recall I did get amount of mileage on. Setting the world on fire with my lap times illness. If I. IF I had done on show I would remember Tillman I'd be telling you about I've also read that there was a race drive with terrel. To replace Martin Brundle after he broke his legs in an accident Dallas is that true and? How come it didn't happen if it was of yeah. I was for that drive and Yeah. I probably should not. But I I really felt that I had. An obligation to be infamous free they had relationship with Dave price racing I had a very close relationship with Dave. was still really good friends. and. The relationship between David price rising and less soccer be pay was a very strong relationship and I felt morally obliged. Commitments. The and I'd spoken to laugh about it and as I recall less said to me well, I wouldn't stand in your way but we look like we're GonNa win this championship and on I really don't want to stove see stayed in formula three instead of progressing that's that's a big coal. Isn't it. It is a big cool. Yeah. It is a big cool and apparently I think that was a pretty good cau-. I think the fact it's on as I recall. Is that one many. Growing praise remaining on slow circuits where I could have shown because the turbo caused destroying that thing on on the quick suck one nine. That's an understandable reason to to give us I suppose and I guess because you were the next big thing you are confident that you're GonNa get other office I suppose yeah. I was reasonably confident. Yeah. But I didn't do myself any favors by not having a minute show why didn't you have a manager? Bloody. Stupid was. Must have been lots of sharks out there wanting to have you know have a slice of your career. Probably just given the reason that I recognize as being shot. Knowing the potholes isn't it for all the young drivers and even I, mean even today it's the same. It can turn on a sixpence his career and you gotta be one step ahead the whole time any yeah you have you need good advice. Drivers at a young age. Who have good pragmatic outlook and a good level of self confidence a- proably betterer choosing who they want to be associated with. So where in nineteen, eighty six now you are racing the Lotus you've actually raced Sennar in formula three at Silverstone. Remember there was a in the end of nineteen eighty-three. How wary were you of him going into that year? I was quite wary of him. You know his reputation. As somebody who was obsessively focused on on his own. Path and knocked typically friendly with already that that those characteristics were already the so you know it's not like. I felt like I even knew him particularly well, because even when he was in low formulas, he was very aloof. That was part of his persona. Did he share data? Did you discuss the driving of the car and the setup of the car was completely open team like that? No. Completely. But on occasions it was I remember when? The. For the British. Grown frame we were I think in the first. Session at brands I was questioned. And it didn't take long. It didn't take long for his race engineer to come over to him and say, let's have a look at your sets. Did you learn anything fatten not not really but having observed him I'll never forget and winter testing before. The nineteen ninety-three. Formula Three season, which was my first season where I showed little promise and actually we didn't complete the season because much sponsorship money dried up but Dave Morgan who Team. Who is a fantastic guy? Really incredibly nice man but also extremely good at setting a car up and advising a young drive because he himself had been a very quick. And we were a cold drizzly horrible testee silverstone and we were looking at the time sheets and they've said to me scillies nine here forget about all of them apart from Brooklyn Center. It was obvious their performance was that of this. It's about focusing on what matters and just always aiming to be the best. Goes Up. The First World Championship Hungarian brain. All the name wants to go the full distance win nocco landfill. Building the World Championship. It's Ari Johnny dumfries fifth in the Lowest Reynaud. Frontal thinks apparel Renault? Drivers. Apex Different Than Hungary and roll. Free. How do you reflect on eighty six itself you finished in the points on a couple of occasions. Do you feel that it was a two car team Lotus Defeo you go equal kit do you feel you had the same opportunities as teammate? We didn't have equal care. If you remember at the beginning of the season I had a lot of Dan. Almost, all of them were down the gearbox and I was developing the new six speed gearbox and it was a disaster. And in the end we. We discovered what it was that does Hyun gearboxes were made into hubs and there was a longitudinal same down the middle of it and they discovered the costing was floored and one side of the costing was much thinner than the other side of the costing. Tested opole record early on the hull casing split because the gearbox had flexed because the costing wasn't man enough for the job. So we were kind of. Wondering whether I I was damaging equipment or not. But when we discovered what the problem was, it was okay. But I had a Lotta Day ns at the beginning of the season and and I think the other thing really is I didn't put it on the line enough. I was very conscious of not wanting to be the rookie drive a WHO kept stuffing the car into the ARMCO. Barriers you know it's important to finish, but it's also important to make a decision about when it should be put on the line and when caution should be added and that comes with experience and confidence I guess it does and you if you look drivers like Preston Lauda, they Austin really sacrificed things in qualifying, they sacrificed grid placings in qualifying to get what they knew the good setup. In order to get results, they needed to accumulate points putting on the line Johnny I mean, he didn't have a problem doing that in any other car, it seems inform three Europe devastatingly effective, and of course, he went on to win l'amour Jaguar and things like that. So what was it about the F one car that made you more cautious I think it was quite daunting with my experience to step into F one and you're in the spotlight could take. The spotlight shone brighter because I was sent his teammate. So. I. Think I think I was a bit over faced by it to be honest with you being really honest with myself. What a good season of testing is what you need needed before then going up to a race seat yeah. More experience as I said, you know if if nine thousand, nine, hundred five had been better for me and I'd had more experience. Mole Rice, miles. And a big horse power. 'cause it would have been better for me. Definitely I was show on experience and I think my confidence suffered because. What about your relationship with other drivers on the grid? I mean, there were five Brits that year was there a bit of a Brit pack going around or? Not. Tick Clearly A. Pretty friendly with bug because we'd rice against each other enough three mansell was always really nice and friendly with me. That was a bit attention between Derek, Warwick and I. He felt finished his dry. And as I said, you've been agok was right. But I wasn't always. Very focused on being friendly with the other drivers. So clean sheet of paper because I still can't get my head around the F three driver who was so quick and the guy who you know only had two points finishes in Formula One to me there's a an impasse there that there's something not right and with a clean sheet of paper and the opportunities that were there whether it was the terror, all the testing contracts what would you do differently? Now. I would have signed a testing contract alone turn testing contract with a and. Formula Three thousand with Mica, the onyx racing, which bunny to me at the time that Dr was on the cards with a testing contract and I turned it down to go to the Ferrari testing contract that for me was the pivotal moment bloody stupid decision God extraordinary isn't this one thing I wanted to ask you about in Adelaide I think you're one of the first guys to have an onboard camera in the race it's a small thing but do you ever find yourself looking at that footage now going? Crikey, that when men women sometimes people send it to me. And I. Know Very often I admit I. Definitely should have been quickest rely cooling. So. What was the outlook for eighty seven at the end of that season? It was pretty bleak. There wasn't much on the cards. I. Probably should have looked closer. It's going to Japan and the the Japanese have two or three thousand I can't remember wins Japan switched into three thousand. You know the money was very good. It was good lifestyle and it would have been great experience but people still look to point it back then as a bit of a quarter and a Rod. Snow Way. I definitely. So INDIKA was an option. There wasn't a whole lot of office, but I do get some really excellent dross. Had One great results in 'em said driving for the DYSON team. I Dr Saba The moment brought lap record, which stood for a few years was quick in that car and I drove for Richard Lloyd at Brands Hatch. and. We finished second and that results. Materialized in the Jaguars drive as a result of that second place at brains, Tomo can got in touch that he. I'd been on Ibn onto term and I could never get through to him which meant he wasn't interested. and. He come back to me that Tom was of the opinion I was a crash. And then I, I had a great result at brands driving with Baldi, and we we finished second in the thousand rice and split the two of the Jaguars and German brands you to walk across the pit straight to get to the through the tunnel, the press center after the right. Yeah. And I was walking just I was on my own. I was just walking across the track and suddenly thome kind of. Materialized at my lied. And said to me if you WanNa talk to me about Dr Give me a call and then he walked off. Wow. I. I'm definitely making that. Cool. How quickly did you make Palu next day. Interestingly at this point where now made eighty seven I guess Did you think your single seater career was over your F-, one. Aspirations were over or we still harboring hopes that you could get back once anybody who's been in F one they've they've got to be hoping they get back in and I was as well. It's noisy. It's not as each out WANNA get back into foot and some people have done very successfully and others haven't. So you know I took what was on. And I had some good drives and ninety seven and I actually started enjoying the the endurance racing. It took me a while to get used to being in an enclosed I didn't really like that but once you get used to it, it's fine. What about sharing the same car with your teammates? Yeah. That's a little challenging as well after having spent the whole of one's career in single seats is but you know jog your ended up with the LLAMAS WHO's Still, a very good friend of mine and he's an excellent driver. With a lot of experience. So you know tame might lie that is good and they were twr were fantastic outfit. A really good team Super Professional. Did it feel like Eh a Formula One team in a way? Yeah. Absolutely. Locker Formula One same. You Know Tom Wilkins show really knew how to run a rice team and you know I as I said, I drove for Sabah. Ninety seven and that was a fantastic car. But the team was a bit of a shambles to be quite honest with you. I mean they were very, very nice people but from professional point of view, the Chamber of a shambles. That's interesting. And they had the Mercedes support at that point as well. Yes. They did. But it was I'm hot steam In the engine department. More. Insights into Johnny's life are on the way after this short message. That's right. It's time for the update on my progress with whoop whoop is the twenty, four, seven, all encompassing health and fitness tracker that helps you monitor critical daily metrics. Let your heart rate, sleep recovery, and strain to help you better understand your body. I've been testing out for the past couple of weeks and with great results I like to consider myself quite health conscious and having a tool to help me track some of my own vital stats is really helping me to be more accountable for my lifestyle and notice when I might need to take some downtime, get some rest but it also. Tells me when I could have trained harder as you were the band on your wrist it connects to an APP on your phone and silently works away as you go about your day each morning, which gives you a recovery school, which you can access via checking the APP. It takes data such as your heart rate variability resting heart rate, sleep tracking, and customizes its recommendations for exercise and rest for the day ahead right now, whoop is offering fifteen percent off with the code grid checkout. Go to whoop that's W. H. Opie, Dot Com, and integrated checkout to save fifteen percent sleep better recover faster and train smarter optimize your performance with whoop today. Right let's get back to. Quick, chat if I may just about where your passion for racing came from because it's quite an unusual I mean wikipedia tells me you know descendent of Robert the Bruce and all that sort of thing and you've got you know all your your responsibilities as what are you the that the Marcus Butte. Now it is an unusual springboard into motor racing. Where did it come from? You came from having been born in on the island of Butte? and. Living in the country my father told me how to drive when I was very young men. My mates just obsessed with 'cause and motorcycles said, did your father race himself none? He didn't my grandfather died very young and so my father had taken over. The family business. The H. and that's where he did he he ran family businesses and he was a businessman but we bought up and country that time you know in in the sixties and the early seventies with huge freedom. A lot of the restrictions that exist in modern day life just didn't exist them and we were in this very rural environments and you know. And my mates had. Stripped down scooters and caused we bought from the local scrap mind we tearing up around the Moors. Making ourselves really unpopular by tearing it up in failed in the massive break tons everywhere. That's where it came from Driving kind of represented freedom. It's inexplicable lad because you can only drive so far in a car, but it just felt like freedom and it felt. Really good to just hang it out in a car. It's a massive step from Hamburg, turns in a field to embarking on a racing career with all the financial worries that come with fat and the danger which we've already talked about. What made you want to race in my late teens I was living in London. And I was working I left school off to my own levels. I was working I had lost two different jobs I worked on building sites. I was a painter and decorator. Of Mine. I was mechanic I was selling tools for. A company which operates a bit like snap on tools but they they were selling obviously different makes tools snap on. And that. Actually. is how I go into racing because the guys who doing that the guys who run that company and several of the guys who are working that company will all doing hundred national karting. This was a time where I had no inkling that I would get into rice saying. And they said to me, you go to come to a car race and see what happens. Come and check it out. Because you might enjoy it I went along and I saw and I helped my nights out and I thought I'm like Oh this looks like the best fun ever. I bought myself a second hand car and a couple of perimeter engines. Rather than a crush on. For what would be considered pennies? On I can't remember what the chassis cost me, but it was probably one hundred and fifty quid or something and I started racing. and. It was just the best. And we you immediately quick or how do you remember those early Latins? Wasn't. Used to spin along my friends used to call me spin dumfries. A I hadn't quite sort of. The you. You can't really get Andy Griffith. Size of aged out but no I I was quick. I did get quick. I also broke both my ankles in my in my first season. Brian my ankles in the summer and I was back Racing Nielsen didn't came out long. I, I need it's get back into Johnny vote was the family thinking at this point. This was just a little bit of fun son was having or were they worried about it? Did they encourage you what messages were you getting? I wasn't really because I wasn't asking. I was my own person. I had my own place to live in. I had a job nobody was going to be telling me has laid my life. So even though those words once spoken of the time they were understood. My family rose very respectful of that actually and I. I've gotTa give great deal of respect for for my dad at the time because he never said anything about it. He just let me get on and do my thing. Did he ever come to some of the races salient Formula One or all the more he only ever came to one race which was The British grown pray ninety six well, look at the effects. It had you a quicker than center in the first practice. And does what about Johnny? What about your cousin? Charlie CRICHTON Stuart because he was obviously racing back in the sixties, how much of a role did he have in all of this Charlie was the grow allied to me and he he was a lovely guy. He was passionate about Racing Charlie used to introduce me to people and give me advice as well. He was supportive as he could have been and that she did it is it true that he got you a job at? Williams. Or because he was working at Williams in the marketing department wasn't been when I say job. We actually on the payroll I don't know. That's the on the payroll I was a van driver in the Gopher Costa just were driving stuff around. Yeah. I they had so Morris Marina, violence I recall. And The van drive I was on the payroll it was when they were still on that trading estate did cut and give us great was fantastic. Loved it. Often used to be on the the Monday morning run. As you probably know when everybody was using coastal engines. At cosworth engineering, it was first come first serve. So I'd be dispatched up Reuters I've o'clock in the morning in the van with a couple of death vs in the back of this thing. Did you have much contact with Frank Williams or Patrick? Head who were the race drivers back then Roseburg lows Patrick, name it was the one team with a much chassis in one thousand nine, hundred, seventy, seven, right we're talking that early. Sorry I didn't realize we're talking then. Yeah. There was literally a handful of guys I mean frank was always incredibly friendly. You Know Franken Patrick the you know those guy called Mike who who ran the Spurs and John Redgrave was chief mechanic and Bob Taurean Graham nap was the the mechanics and I think Patrick used to engineer the car and there was a truck driver. It was a tiny thing happy days happy days and Joanie that confirmed in your mind. Did it that this was the business for you but it was always a driver was you didn't consider another role within racing though let's be clear. So I, went in there and seventy seven. And off to that I worked for the buffs fall short in seventy eight. I didn't start racing till nine, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty. So going and for the right team, just it was just a job that would be great fun and yet. Charlie didn't use to that. And I just went and did. Just traveling going to races and failing the camaraderie than already but not really seeing myself as a as a driver. I remember a young Kiwi Guy Code. Roy still who was working for Williams at the time and had the food car. a Van Damon, and then he said to me bracing script since fantastic. But at the time I was thinking well I don't even know the first thing about getting into rising and it wasn't until I met those guys in the tool company. And they were causing my win long. And they were like this is easy just by the second-hand kit. Get your. Competition license and get on with it. So it did. Yeah. My goodness he did didn't he? said at the beginning that this is. It seems like almost a lifetime ago, the career in racing. But how do you reflect on it in terms of the satisfaction it gave you and if you hadn't ever embarked on a racing career, what you would have missed out on yes. Oh, now having done it. I would have missed out on. And as I said earlier, you know it was just. Enormously, satisfying and I consider myself to be incredibly lucky to have been able to. Make career as doing some Annika me such credible pleasure and represented such a huge challenge and that would challenge is really important because I think challenges are really important in life and I've always liked challenge myself and knowing the I challenged myself in an extreme environment and had a degree of success gives me an enormous amount of satisfaction and as I said earlier, it told me a hell of a lot about myself in about how to deal with circumstances and how to deal with other people. So you go on and. Win Lamar. In nineteen, Eighty, eight and I. I would argue that that period was when Lhamo was absolutely at its height in terms of interest certainly within the UK but and I think from other categories as well. Quick Chat about the race itself memories of it it's a fantastic memory it's a fantastic rice to have one. You know. Yeah. Andy. Did an incredible job and the Cobb just made it to the end because as you gave started going in the last two hours. And Yan Star crossed the finishing line. was incredibly professional at that time in the in the late eighties and competitive, and it was great to see so many manufacturers involved. So it really felt like it meant something. You know what was missing was the TV coverage and I think if if group said had better TV coverage in the late eighties. Could have evolved something quite great. But yeah, I mean it's a tough rice. It's twenty four hour races annoy easy. Did you sleep by couldn't sleep to I'd? I'd go lie down in between my stint spy couldn't sleep what was it like to drive along the mall? Sand. Straight. At night at two whatever you're doing two hundred and fifty miles an hour. Yeah, it was absolutely fantastic. Fantastic. Renew, traveling. SOFA. Everything's relative when I started racing. You know I remember the first time I drove a car. My hundred national costs. I thought this thing. Insane. And then I got used to the Adnan. Full food. Sixteen hundred and I thought this thing bloody insane because he's got no grip. And then I moved into three and I saw the historian Tacitus is stuck to the RAW. During the various different stages of my career and if anyone's career, what happens is the drive against more accustomed to the speed and everything slows down so You know person that's never driven a single. Say you start him in a single Satan said you gotTa have a go in this thing that'd be terrified but through professional driver everything slows down it comes normal but driving at those speeds on the most on streit your really acutely aware of you'll spayed because it is a route nationale in France right and it's got a camera on us. So the car moving all over the road at those speeds no, you don't WanNa be moving up. Speeds. Sort of crabbing. It's right now it's no crabbing. It's way down. But whilst taking another car. It's super super sensitive because because gone quite light and as you know. The Lamont SPEC cars with low drag 'cause. So they had those really loud rear wings, the body what was different it's very sensitive, and so we had to be really careful. So. You, know you're talking about really almost negligible steering input. To move onto the other side of the road and overtake. A car that you're either racing weight or That is a back Mauka. and. At made me really aware the LE it's fantastic. The king the at the end of the Malzahn. was incredible I mean. It's flat. I mean I remember the before in in the Saba on what's it was flat, which is in quite a sobering thought actually in retrospect. What did winning Lamont do for you in your career I'm not sure because Tom. Sachs, with the end of the year. Did, he give any reasons I run? A. Couple of times Once when we were leading that didn't animates Tomo can show immediately after the Lhamo race I mean that was a real buzz about the three of you in about the team did any F one teams get back in contact or anything like that? Because if one teams paying any attention at all to Group C while championship? But it did it did put me in the frame for for Toyota drive, which is where I ended up. Didn't you test for Benetton as well? Did a bit of the active suspension work as well. Yeah So I knew pizza for well and I had identified Bennington is a potential. Seat for me and I knew pay well enough to call him and know that unless he was incredibly busy. He does take. Michael's he offered me that. About testing program. And I had experienced with active suspension because I'd been involved in the human but Lotus were testing it. They were testing with the. IMSA, Chevrolet setup and so I've done quite a lot of work with them in a seven as well. And I really enjoyed that I sleep is really challenging. Active suspension was incredible. It really was even those rations of it even as early iterations of it I mean I remember testing that that in Cica at Snetterton and Lola were involved as well because they were the chassis provider. So Eric Broadley was involved in you know he was a great guy work with two. I mean the safety nets was a joke. In a call with. A hundred and fifty horsepower. Anyway. The system went down on me in the middle of. The bum hole and then courtroom. So I turned into Corum take an early fool scare and tonneins courtroom really quick. Tight. Early fourth gear and it was flat. That's how good the car felt. They're even this thing was a munster. Way To one metric Tom and the active suspension went down in the middle of the corner and I went straight into the ties and Eric Broadley was standing on the bank right and fronts where I throw shut today's. And it was such a heavy accident. They discovered that the the engine had moved forward. The impacts were you okay was completely okay. Eric wins as white as a sheet. We got to subject but yeah, I ended up doing the Benson Bennigsen active suspension testing. And Quite a lot of miles, but it never went anywhere Joni. It's an interesting question, the whole danger aspect of your profession. Then because I guess in the back of your mind someway, you always had another life to go back to autumn move onto and did that affect your attitude to danger when you're in a car I was super focused on my career never thought twice about it. All drives our where the danger. But you know there's a difference between being fearful of danger. And being aware of danger and compartmentalizing emotion and dealing with it. You know I mean pe- people don't really know anything about rising. Say Things got it must have been terrifying. We'll. No. Of course not because otherwise if a person is terrified, they conduct. You know one box steps into a boxing ring they're aware of the risks faced them emotionally and psychologically they have dealt with those emotions and same for driver united something nets. So enormously stimulating and invigorating, and we get such pleasure out service. That's the risk is accepted and get on with the job. In the thirty s since he retired, have you found any think that gives you the same sense of satisfaction as driving a car on the limit. It's replaceable them in terms of sensation speed and. Controlling oneself at speed. I would say the country skiing is is something that's. Slightly related, it's different, but it's related as something that I love doing now the Mozart racing competitive, much racing's irreplaceable. What is back? Country Skiing? Is that just off pace? Yeah. Yeah. Highly skiing. Oh Wow. Okay. off off based on steroids. When we happiest was it dominating form a three was it just being in Formula One over? Was it that winning Lhamo is that what was your happiest memory? I'd say Formula Ford and Formula Three, the grassroots is enormously appealing. You haven't yet reached the formulae. Where will the bullshit is, which is you know at the high professional level? This too much politics and too much bullshit. And grassroots levels. It's just a hell of a lot of fun and if one of your children said to you, now data won't have a go what would your reaction be I'd say go for it but get a manager can. He would support them. I would but none of them have wanted to and apart from my youngest daughter who's twenty the rule now cost the age where they could embark upon the career you'll safe. Johnny. One final thing is two thousand to two thousand and three the Mount Stuart Motor Sport Classic I remember Tacoma Sato telling me that he the one hundred up for a demonstration what prompted that and how come no longer exists. Okay. So we. The house is open to the public that mountain stood and what was formerly nine beauts. State is now will vested in charge were trust called amounts to trust. And it's not part of the commercial operations of my family. So we run it as a charitable trust and it's a it's a visit, the heritage attraction, and so at the time I. This is going to be a great way of getting of people onto the islands and providing income trust and boosting the local economy. We only ran it for two years because the logistics. Because we're on an island and the island is serviced by Caledonian macbrayne, which is to ferry company. It's very complicated expensive. Lack of accommodation and the logistics were nightmare. So unfortunately, we had to been off to the the second year which was a shame. But you know it is what it is. But I remember, yes Oh, it was absolutely mental in that thing. It was what? -solutely nailed it. What did you have? Did you create a circuit or was there a sort of a bit like a good word? Is there a long driveway? Of the drive part of the front drive in the back drive. So really not a road with trays on either side. And tackle. Gave it a bit. Did He? He gave it big Willie? Yeah. That's great. Well. John ESPN lovely to speak to you. Thank you very much for your time and a just fascinating to diskette your take on it in a way having thirty years. Reflection makes it even better to talk about your career now than it would have been thirty years ago really saw him. It's been a great pleasure talking to you and it's it's fun from time to time to reminisce site I. Don't often talk about rising. Sometimes I really enjoy it. It's been good talking to you. Great stuff. Thanks Tony. That was one of the most honest conversations. I've ever had with a racing driver. Some try to rewrite history once they retired but not johnny, he didn't make any excuses during that Jack even if he did leave us with a sense of what might have been had he not tested, for Ferrari, with other opportunities presented themselves or what if he'd signed a long term deal with Bernie? ECCLESTONE Brabham all of those options with after the taking at one point but he was given some advice and made some bad decisions. Johnny, many thanks for your time. It was great to chat and to reflect on your career. Well, that's almost it for this week. But before I go, let's rummage through the virtual mailbag to see what you've been saying about the show and lots of you light me love hearing from Alfa Romeo boss Fred Vassar. Last week we saw a whole new side to him. Nicholas Harburg said this just finish the interview with Fred Vassar I'm sure he's a shrewd businessman, but he seems genuinely funny and humble family man. Action when you mentioned president of the FAA, made me laugh out loud in the car keep them coming. Thanks Nicholas. He made me laugh out loud to he seems a very genuine man and it'll be fascinating to see how quickly he can turnaround Alpha's fortunes when I saw him in Spain last weekend we had a good chat about the show and he said he'd enjoyed it. Then there was this from Lee Russia's Fred's laugh is truly contagious. He says, it was great to hear his stories and aside of him I really enjoyed. Oh, did I mention Fred's laugh? Yes. Li It's a wonderful laugh and Tim Merritt got in touch to say the laugh is similar to Peter Laws. Google Peter, and you'll see what Tim means finally this week let's hear from Andrew Great podcast with Fred this week he says an infectious laugh a great sense of humor and he's very humble about his role giving young drivers, a launch pad without him and his teams. Some of the past current and future world drivers champion might not have made it into Formula One spot on Andrew than half of the current F. One greatest pass through Fred's junior teams. So there are a lot of people who owe him a great debt of gratitude. We love all of your messages and well wishes. So please keep them coming in as ever I'm at Tom Clarkson. F. One on twitter or you can use the hashtag beyond the grids and we love reading your comments on Youtube to. That's it. For this week folks, we've got another fine guest view next week someone for whom excellent has become second nature. I won't spoil it for you. You'll have to tune in to find out who I'm talking about as ever. Thanks for listening the only grittiest produced by F, one in association with Audio Boone until next time keep it flat out.

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Jim & Florence talk to Author Frankie Williams on her highly anticipated book The Merdragon Secrets!

"The Forum" Celebrity Podcast

09:00 min | 4 months ago

Jim & Florence talk to Author Frankie Williams on her highly anticipated book The Merdragon Secrets!

"Hey everyone. This is columnist tool from below deck Mediterranean, and you're listening to Jim Foreign on the foreign. Hybrid one, this is Jim Jackson welcome to the form. We have a very special guest that has become a good friend of the show and a good friend of ours personally to introduce the guest Florence yet dash light popular demand like that. Very good friend of ours very talented author today pig book Blog Day because we have author Frank Williams from the very popular merged dragons theories, and we are so excited to have you here. Hi Frankie. Hi. How are you? I'm excited to be here to I'm really excited about today. That's fantastic. Emerge Dragon secret. So we're very excited about this the fervor with your first book was amazing. Outpouring of support has been unbelievable. How is made? You feel going onto the second book it gives me a really good feeling. You know like, I said at the beginning and I said I wasn't off and I still have having those moments about that but it gives it gives me. It makes me feel good to hear people enjoy the book actually, and that just makes no just makes me feel really good a little Dick Synopsis of the Second Book of what people can enjoy about it or the second book has quite a bit of adventure I can say that the Cabinet Benji just cannot stop reading until you know exactly what's going to happen because a lot of a lot of things happen for so you may be thinking one way, but it currently goes another way. So it does a lot of things a lot of interesting captivating things. That's that's all I can say without actually just going here and tell you. What it is a lot of things. It's really good. 'cause secrets, for reason. Start. Now Now, when is this book going to be open for people to purchase it, and we do ask that people go to Amazon that seems to be the easiest place? When is resale going to be for this pretty sal is GonNa Be August ninth and chose August my because that's my daughter's birthday her and her twin brothers birthday all night that definitely be the priority very special day. Yeah. Shows that one. Be a great. Now, when are you hoping that the book will be sent out to the readers I'm hoping that it's going to be the twentieth because? There's some things that were fixing doing and changing, but it'll be ready but I'm pretty sure to be shipped up twentieth now is Florence has been talking about with the cover and the artwork your daughter Briana has done an absolute unbelievable job with this. And you have an amazing team at home with Brianna doing the artwork daughter Jasmine doing the editing and sean being kind of the idea creator bouncing off story lines off each other talk about it, and what were the kind of the genesis of for her what do you think? She kinda got the thought getting that amazing cover where this book takes on a different feel a great feeling that takes a different field. So she wanted. To cover to express that that it's a different story than the for go with that idea. But I kinda like else I didn't see the cover myself to to two days ago she didn't show what the me at all you know. So it was I I love that idea. So basically like I said her cover to her and to me actually it just shows that the book took a different a different mood you know that next. Older. Okay. Would you say this time? It's for maybe a little bit of an older or mature audiences here I would say that to me I, feel like between I think the youngest without being rich to will be eight eight to nine and up I mean. A little more, which is good. Yeah Open. People. Yeah. It's actually it actually like I said from eight to up and when I say up I mean as far as they want to go. Yeah. Yeah. Much over. Well, this is what's so good about the reviews you see people of all ages I saw teenager. Lebron. Reviews I saw elderly people reading. Everyone's like everyone had one complaint when is The second book coming out, they could not wear. That they could not wait for the next book to becoming now, they couldn't put it down now response their family must be a lot of pride for this especially for Sean. In remembrance of her, just must be a Howard's kind of the emotions. Now, you got a lot of stress bringing it out. Well, what are the emotions that you guys are feeling right now? We're still her absence, but we also have prompted. Would feel doing something that just you honest her and brings you know brings us closer and closer to her. But also in this book her grandmother passed in last month. Yeah and also, and also in this book I put her grandmother in there with her. Added plus so she's in her also. Get. So basically they're both, they're both in there. So A it's an emotional book prairie body. That's right. How do you feel this? This ride must be just so. You put out a book. In fact when Florence I talk to I, think you even told her I don't even consider myself a writer and author. And now you can't help. But say you really are because you're you're reaching a level of. Status, amazing especially for first time writer, it must be just an amazing magical feeling that almost like chantal is kind of because on a chessboard making these moves go because what an amazing ride you've had right definitely has been and it. Just you know arch credit to just God actually you know it just came and it just took on a whole life of itself and I said before I never felt like an author and I feel funny saying it now because you know there's just me but I was able to write the book. To write the book gives make it feeling well before Florence talks about the book again and gives everybody what the name of it a when to release states are I just wanted to commend you on your writing and your spirit you touch so many people on the Internet with guys passion and your family's ability to really turn a tragedy into something special and happy and sell laboratory, and I'm just really proud of you frankie were so excited about your new book and we just think this is GonNa. Be another big winner or thank you so much. Thank you so very much i. just hope everybody enjoys it. We enjoy making it together. So I hope everybody enjoys it I. I quit thing I wanted to mention real quick. I. Know that we had talked about. There's a little special. Thank you for Blake Sheldon and I. Know we wanted to doubt a surprise and not go into what you said and what you know what it is right but there is still something there about Blake right just wanted to. Do something, right? Exactly. Oh for sure Florence. When you tell them win, the book is out of the pre-release and all that yes merged dragon do secret will be out for preorder. The preorder date is August ninth, and then it will be available to everyone on August twenty though when you can get that on Amazon. Amazon Dot Com and we are so excited about this. This is so widely anticipated. So again, this book launches so great today and tomorrow we'll do a second day and everybody'll get to hear this. So again, thank you so much, Frankie. This is so wonderful. We're so happy for you. Thank you so very much. Everyone wants to know Frankie story and some things. She was really kind to give us a great interview go onto YouTube and type in Jim Jacks media, and you'll see all our videos their way up several was frankie some commercials about our book the exciting announcement of it we have the dates they're they're not one hundred minutes long or anything they're very sweet. With a lot of expression of what's going on in the spirit of family. So please go check them out real quick. They'll make your day and we think everyone for supporting cranky and us in her journey with Murder Dragon Seeker. So we're excited about this coming out. Take care everyone five. Thank you from our.

Florence Frankie Florence Amazon Sean writer Jim Jackson Jim Foreign Blake Sheldon Frank Williams YouTube sal Murder Lebron Brianna Jim Jacks Briana Howard Jasmine chantal
34: 1000th race special with Murray Walker - The Voice of F1

F1: Beyond The Grid

1:10:16 hr | 1 year ago

34: 1000th race special with Murray Walker - The Voice of F1

"Hi, Ed Murray. Walker and you're listening to be on the grid. Hi, everyone Tom Clarkson here welcoming you to another edition of beyond the grade presented by Bose quiet comfort thirty five to wireless headphones. Now, the upcoming Chinese grand prix is the one thousand threes in the history of Formula one. So how best for beyond the grid to reflect all of that history and passion, well, there's only one man for the job. Sites. Most dates crate up by the third to. Thirty two. There's I see that. These are. Testing. Well, we will Siri type on jury the rates. Damon hill. Wait, stay Japanese girl. Pray for now. Go to stop because I love fruit. The iconic tones over Murray. Walker? My guest this week for several generations of fans, he remains the voice of Formula one his commentaries for the BBC TV, but broadcast across the English speaking world, and he became more famous than many of the drivers on the grid Murray did countless F one countries during the fifties and sixties, but it was only in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight that the BBC committed to Formula one and with that the popularity of the sport and of Murray himself grew exponentially. There was a genuine sadness from every corner of the sport when he retired after the US grand prix in two thousand and one but his legend in Joe's. In fact, you can hear many of his greatest commentaries in full via F one TV Murray is now ninety five and he's less mobile than it used to be. But as you're about to find out his brain. He is still in shop. I went to his home in the new forest after the Bahrain grand prix for a catch up. I hope you enjoy Alcon. Visit. Well, Murray, welcome to be on the great. It's such a pleasure to have you on the show the festival. How are you? I'm Laura Tom. I'm older and older and of things wrong with me that old people get, but basically I'm okay following on five anyway, five out of out of ten. Out of shakes. Well Murray, you look great. And it's such a pleasure to come here to have a CIA. Now. Listen, are you a podcast fan Thome polls? Because I was just wreck in my brains to fund the right answer. I don't really know what a podcast is. I don't think I've ever cultures addition to one unto the extent that I have I just assumed it was a sort of extended radio interview. Which is what it is, isn't it? That's exactly what we're embarking on right here. Now Murray, how up to speed are you with modern day current twenty nine nine Formula one? Well, I like to think I'm right oboe almost right up to speed not nearly as up to speed as walls, tell them when you and I worked together because well, I'm I'm not part of it. Now, as you know, when you're part of it, you talk to people all the time from different walks of life team, principals drivers. Closers. Everybody can take over about nothing else. But Formula one until you to me at that time. There wasn't anything else. Other than Formula one because you live in a sort of bubble and nothing else matters, Brexit and things like that. No, go down that room. I promise you. So I'm I'm out of it. But to the extent that I'm out of it. I've tried to keep as much as I can I watch television Irene papers or read magazines, and let's hope to people so unfairly up to speed. Did you watch the Bahrain grand prix? I watched every second of the Bahrain chrome pray, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. And I felt so so sorry for Leclerc because to come into full Mila one is he has and get into Ferrari as he has to lead the race as he was doing so close to the end and have something happened to him was. I hate to use the would tragic, but it was very sad. The BBC always used to say to me tell you mustn't, use the woods tragic, and you mustn't use the would disaster. I said, it's it's not a disaster if somebody retires from Formula one is not tragic helmet is engine blows up. It's tragic. If fifty people are killed it another quake in Japan or something, but even taking that into account. I think it's almost tragic that lake had had the problem that he had he's a very impressive young, man. He's only twenty one. And he you know, he said all the right things after the race. He he did. Let's let's face it in bloom. He blew Vattel away that an east Andy talking enough foreign language. He speaks plenty of them. I think it's Italian highly. Halley infringe consumed with admiration respect for any motive to that. Did you know that lick clicks mother is David cool thoughts hairdresser? No. How does that happen? Monaco. Yes. Yes. Next time. You see David on the tally. Anything has has looking great. You know, where it came? Right now Murray, let's talk a little bit about you. And you'll career festival was F one hobby or a job fee. You. Tom. I actually started talking about what today is Formula one before Formula one existed in nineteen forty nine if you can think back that far probably your mother's told you about it before my time baron too low to craft an read one the British girl and pray and a measure alty, I you you have to take into into account. The fact that I was born into a motor sport atmosphere because my father was a very successful professional racing motorcyclist. He raised from before I was born until I was tovia is old. So I was all together love motor sport or loathe it and I loved it. And on still do announce a DO question is formula. One is almost a passion with me. Always has been note to the extend the motorcycle racy has have to tell you where all the traitorous Lee tell you. But it's very very special. Did you ever want to race yourself? I'm surprised that you ask. I did actually race motorcycles. I didn't know that I love retard at the height of my success often. I had one a two fifty CC heat at brands hatch. When when brands hatch was a grass track, which ran anti clockwise. And it was a time when Jones Surtees was a youngster racing with his father, Jack, Jack, Jack rode the bike and told them so t's wrote in the sidecar, and they're not they're not took out enduro motorcycle six day motorcycle events. When they take place, pardon wedge. They take place these jurors in in the UK. Yeah. The road in the international six days trial in five hundred thousand wells. It was based on you tweet. We went charging about all over wells on the Scottish six days trial a road in that. Go to war in both of them. And I was fairly reasonable told him I was fair to good clubs standard. But I knew that I was never gonna be as good as my father. I did I started off with delusions of grandeur that I was really gonna show the old man now motorcycle ought to be ridden. And I very rapidly discovered that I wasn't and you know, what they say those can do and those that can't talk about it. So I started talking about it and nine hundred forty nine golden audition, a good and talk about the Parnell to Rich Paul knell winning a he a heat there and his Maserati, and then it'll grew like topsy, but I had a full time job in the advertising business. If if as I'm sure you do, you know that Powell dog food prolongs active live. P A L prolongs active life. If you if you know that your cat lives long stays young lives longer on daily kitty cat, if you know that Opal fruits a made to make your mouth water doesn't Mazar day help you. Resolve was I was the county executive on the and they account director of the malls business. But I didn't actually think of that. I wish about trill makes punchers bounce with health. How does that crab? You. Mold of the. I wanted to come onto you add career. But did you miss the bikes when you stopped? Did you miss the adrenaline the competitive side of it? We're not start racing. No, not really because or you know, tell him if you bought behind a microphone, you get the treadle in flowing, and and if you are talking to literally millions of people as I was in the BBC days of the BBC was the sole broadcaster. It's very different. Now, there's some teen different organizations pro costing Formula one one way or another. But when I started often for quite a long time, the BBC was they only Formula one roller coaster. So if you got to listen to it, you listen to me because you hadn't gotten the option. So when our start rotting bugs a stock. Of course, I really wasn't good enough to get to the salt. Which is what I wanted. Did you worry about the dangers of bike racing? Now, where do you turn to you you? It's something that happens to all the people that doesn't happen to you. And I didn't really do it long enough order to high enough level to start thinking on that. So then the ad will beckons a lot of people listening to this. I think think that commentating was your job. But actually, I my hobby exactly because my job the nine to five nine to five. Well, not not much more than nine to five goes in the agency business, you you lose a lot of business say you inevitably have to replace it with new business. So I was doing a lot of new business presentations as well as working on my own accounts on that weekend work, but it was the motor. What we now? Call Marta motocross scrambling that really. Really caught me going because I'd been doing a lot of stuff on radio for BBC in public address. And they're not TV came to me and said they wanted me to work on scrambling is it was in cold and it took off like a rocket. So when did the I mean, you said ready know? Nine hundred. Yes. Nineteen forty nine. We had been doing a lot of stuff like the British touring car championship. Full Mila Ford formula three. BBC wasn't doing any or hardly Eddie Formula one coverage. They would do Monaco. They would do the British girl in praying and the Italian grill and pray that was about it. Then in nineteen seventy six Chow called James Hunt. One won the championship and Britain suddenly became aware of Formula one because of the clamorous image, the playboy image, the devil may K. The James Hunt had and the BBC decided they were gonna do Formula one. I at that time the natural commentator was Raymond Baxter. Raymond baxter. Couldn't do it. Because for a variety of reasons, I won't boy with allows me to do it. And that was nineteen seventy eight the Mario Andretti, Ronnie, peaches. Yeah. And then it just grew from that at I carry I carried on doing the job and the Brule costing for four years until nineteen eighty two. And then in nineteen eighty two was sixty years old retired from the advertising business in my career Pearl costing current started at the age of sixty how they six two. And now excuse me while I interrupt myself. More of the unique memories of Murray. Walker in just a minute. First of all I wanted to say it's been great to see that. So many of you have been taking my advice and snapping up. A Harry's razor our listeners must have faces a smooth as a Formula one slick tire. And if you haven't then here's a little reminder. Harry's have a special offer for beyond the grid listeners offering a trial set for just three pounds ninety five. All you have to do is. Go to harrys dot com forward slash f one podcast. These trial sets are fantastic. And the perfect way to test out. If Harry's is right for you. Just Antea details online, and you'll get a neat little package delivered to your door with all that you need to get going. There's going to be a weighted ergonomic handle ensuring maximum comfort and grip while you shave and five precision engineered blades with a lubricating strip and a trimmer blade. Harry's are also going to throw in a foaming shave gel, which feels really good on your skin. And handy little travel blade cover to protect your kit that just slots straight on all at for just three pounds ninety-five high quality blades for half the price of other brands out there. Get started shaving with Harry's today by claiming your trial set for just three pounds ninety-five support our po- cast, and you get a trial set to live it to you, including a razor handle five blade. Cartridge, foaming shave gel and travel blade cover. Harry's dot com forward slash f one podcast. That's harrys dot com forward slash f one podcast. You had lots of people in the commentary box with you. But there were two legendary partnerships wasn't there. There was James Hunt and Martin Brundle. Let's talk about James, I, you know, tell us about why that worked and what it was like to work difficult to know where to start what James cozy was a unique character, Tom. Didn't care about what I knew what he thought. He was an extrovert day was a showman. A jank too much. He smoked too much. The woman is like there was no tomorrow. Sounds like you're very similar. He could be the most Erica overbearing objection. We'll person you've ever met in your life. And frequently was on all the time though. It is a really decent. Cheerful friendly nice person Harding inside. And when he retired from broadcasting the. Nice chap took over sorry when he retired from racing the nonstop took over, but I had some very difficult times with James. It's very good ties with James. Tell you what he was lie. I used to. I you rush about the paddock all the time. But you bring away talking to people talking intentionally two drivers to principal principles to tie technicians to anybody would talk to me about anything to do with Fulham in a one in the hope of some of which state for the country while James would languidly sits in the Marlboro motor. When everybody went to him. And I would get to the comradery pokes it out before the race began James against come and Trump's maybe maybe five minutes before the race began and one may pay would often say a position Murray. And. I used to stand up to calm inside literally on the balls of my feet with adrenaline pouring out of me by the bucketful James would sit in a sort of solemn heap beside me on gesture for the microphone when he wanted it or I would give it to him. When I wanted him to say something and there were times when he hadn't really got very much to say. But when he had gone so me to say, it was really worth listening to why did it work? I was older after his father, Tom, and as you will gather James did a lot of things and said a lot of things that I didn't approval and vice versa. Probably. But I think it was probably partly because of that because we grew to be tolerant of each other. I used to the microphone I was so excited and wanting to impart everything. That I had learned and as. I really didn't want anybody else in the in the box with now didn't really want James on as quite happy to do it over myself. So James had that aspect to put up with I had other aspects to put up with James's incredibly outspoken, the trouble with Jerry Asia. Fringe Walney always has been and always will be and you used to say the most outrageous things and and get away with it on the public loved him and on one occasion. It didn't turn out a toll about girl pre one. Yeah. And we will frantically getting retard drivers come to the Cullman. Tree boats to talk to me about what it was like James formed Onslow torture said he was sorry hadn't been but he was in bed with a stomach complaint. It was the first time out of a to Belgium is cool to stomach complaint. Would you say that's that was it was that sounds very true to form from what I've heard about him. But would you say you friends by the end? Yeah. Oh, definitely. We were not really the beginning. We were reluctant partners from my point of view. James o obviously wanted to do it. But no, we we will Roger the end. And what impact did is? We were all Roger the end provided holiday. This is gonna sound very arrogant provided. I was tolerant enough to put up with some of James's excess is. Some of times is excessively were really excessive. I usually had the most fearsome temper gowdy front and the life out of anybody when he was having one of his Torridge. Now, you go it the important thing is told him that he worked from the public point of view. And I suspect that it was the contrast personalities my talking like my trousers were on fire as tight take Clive James used to say and James the relaxed public school expert because they narrow and done. It is level will impact these have on you personally. Well, it obviously has an enormous impact. Because I'd be Mookie with it for thirteen years sixteen times a year four days at a time. And if you multiply sixteen thirteen by four you're getting a very big number. So I I. Mm NIST literally missed crate limits. The partnership James has replaced with Jonathan Palmer who did an excellent job. But they're not if he took over and Martin Brundle had come in at mar Wilkin, the producers behest several of the pro costs on. Yeah. And shown himself to be very good. So I t v then use him on the he was the best plug. I've worked with along. Choke wine. Because he's a nice person that because he's predictable because he's got a good sense of humor because he's been there and done that of the highest possible level while sports car champion winner of Lhamo drove ful eight full middle. One team's finished on every step of the podium, except I beaten had beaten shoe, backer. And he was one of those air individuals a top sportsman top of his craft who could actually talk entertainingly. And interestingly about it as he still does. Plus, he does and the great wall. Of course, was something that yes, he started wasn't it. No, it isn't as a good wall. Larry walker's. When did you say? Tappan years in South Africa said to the BBC, look, I've got an idea water, you give me a microphone on a on a team on a steady calm, the people who walk backwards giving you the pictures, and I would just walk down the pit lane and talk to whoever I see I want to talk to and it will be unprompted, and they they won't be expecting me. With one exception. I primed Joe Ramirez of McLaren than I was come to come to him. And I walked down the pit lane and the last person Tautou as he leaped out of his car and cross cross track to come to the pit area was told Malkin show, and it was brilliantly successful because this hadn't been done before were you actually in the pit lane, and you actually talking don't not recorded, but talking live to the people the fans wanted to have Roman idolized as something until then you and then sort of fizzled out so mountain to mountain revived it. And does it brilliantly will not in revived it Martin? If you're listening. It was you never think from Murray. Now, my believe it or not China is the one thousand race in Formula one history. So I thought it was perhaps a good. Perhaps of rigorous thing to do just to ask you for a few of your favorite. So if I was to say during those one thousand races that go back to the first ever grand prix thirteenth of may nineteen fifty SilverStone world championship grand prix in that time favorite driver. Fangio? I knew you were going to say that because I've why Fangio ahead of a Senator or a Schumacher or Jim Clark. Tom, and people are say who's who's the greatest I washed sites that I'm Lou I caught caught. So they question because you can't compare drivers of one generation with drivers of another generation when they were driving different cars different circuits to different rules. You just have to make a subjective judgment, and you can try to try to justify, but if someone thinks passionately about someone else's very difficult to challenge them. Why Fangio well he washed unique. And and he's still unique in that. He won five world championships. Four of them with different constructors with Maserati with Ferrara with mousa- most CD's Benz. And with alpha Romo now, admittedly, he did that because he was astute enough to know that he was the best on the therefore drive the best car, and they have all used to just have yearly contracts on of the end of the area would decide which which constructor he was going to try four next. But he was a great person as well. It wasn't just that. He was a great driver. He was a humble individual who come from very ordinary circumstances about Koch. I in Argentina, and he came across to Europe, and and conquered it in a four sale t- Maserati on then go to all these works drives. And he was absolutely Souprayen. The only person who really could hold a candle to him that time. We study most the criteria drive inevitable won the world championship a much greater. The little ones who did. Let's talk about your personal relationships with drivers. I'm thinking Man-Soo, I'm thinking, San I mean, can you just tell us in terms of your personal relationships who you got on best reason why? People seem to think told the people in your position and my position. Continuingly home Lobi having lunch with having dinner with having drinks with going on holiday with and generally being super duper friends with top drivers, you know, that isn't the case nowadays you have to make an appointment about a fortnight before when you want to driver in my day. It was a lot easier because full mid one wasn't as professional and wasn't as far reaching wasn't as big a worldwide sport as it is now kind of down offering you question, I you because you'll just explaining that pops. You weren't as close to these drivers as the person people procedures. So, but still you had a relationship with the the big exception is I like to think that I was. Pretty close if not very close to most of the English drivers, particularly my name's Nigel Mansell, don't these person the well to get home with for a lot of people. But I always found him extremely kind, and helpful stayed stated his home in Florida when he lived there stayed at his home in the all of nine when he lived there. And we we came out through full metal one together. And he's a good old. Boy, he's he was they called him e Leoni in Italy. When he Trofeo for our an LA only means the line, and it was a very good description of nargile because he as an was Lon halted and I got on extremely well with him. I called on extremely well. Wait Davey, cool. Thawed was Nigel at generous man because some of the people were with say that he was very hard work and talking. Team. People your experiences have him was was he was he a charming, man. Over dinner table, or how did you find him on a personal one to one basis on a personal one to one basis? I caught on with them extremely well. But you have to bear a bond. With all of these people told them, I was representing the BBC and the BBC was mighty important and still is Marty important and not many of them are going to be unpleasant to me. But because of that and respective of what we were like on the puzzle chemistry level, but caught a power from that. I got on with. But but the nargile is we sorry was and does pose. He's changed in many ways a difficult person to get on with theri thin-skinned took offence very easily. Did you ever criticize him? Get under that skin. Remember one good notch? Nargile use too big thirty aware whatever things said to him. I think he had a network of friends knew full Moser caters. Did you know you read science Najah an ultra came up to me once and he said, we'll see this. You've been saying about may being boring. Showed large would I say that you will you of all people will boring? Well, that's all I signed is. So I mean that was a I I had I didn't I was present at a an occasion to occasions when nargile when we had a young. Developing producer at the BBC chuckle Ken button. Very nice bloke. And he was supervising. An interview the nargile I were to do and he gets a camera all lined up. And then he says Nacho Nacho would you by taking your cap off? Now said. Two million pounds to where this Cup. Now. I won't. So they can button says to the cameraman avoid the cap of the cap. So we did the interview and it was a back to back such relation the next weekend. Wayward another scroll Bray. And Ken buttons got little cameras lined up. He says to dodge. Oh, I couldn't believe Mars is Tom would you mind taking your capital of knowledgeable? Kapalua says knowledgeable and stormed off a stormed off stormed off. Yeah. And so far I've managed I went to my said look nargile of how to chat with him. We came back, and we did the interview, but I had a similar situation or not dissimilar with Damon Hill and his championship year when he was working unbelievably hard. He was doing six hours in the gym every day on our sat down to an interview with them Portugal. Anyway, look, a very peaky very thin. Cheeks were sunken and his eyes were looking haunted for want of a better description. I'll timing. You were you're not overdoing it. I'll tell you. What are you say that for you said and stole he stole dove. Offer. So. Okay. No. I wanna said look, I've oversleep fended you and I'm sorry. Puff perfectly unintended. So my race said I'm okay now. But he said just before you had. Another chop interviewing me, and he said, what would you give to have your father buy for just one hour? Diamonds father was Graham Hill double world champion killed in the crash dramatically adversely affected Damon's life, unto Oscar question that to the best of times, but have been ill-judged, but and they never state the name payment was in with a world championship. And the whole thing was. Launching the blue touch paper and standing clear down to so much pressure. These guys they him. Let's talk about Damon. Because of course, I've got to stop because I've got a lump in my throat is one of the iconic lines of Murray Wilco as as he won the championship in people accused me. Tom of thinking of small toss things to say and writing them on the contrary bugs will so like slow them into the trae at the appropriate moment. Not true, you know, standing with adrenaline pouring out of you you'll having to print the pictures. So the viewer is look at and you're looking at the same pictures as. So that I know more about hopefully, entrusted entertained and what they're seeing on. I was very much in vogue with Damon. Had been aware of him. When he was racing motorcycles brands hatch. I'm became the brands hatch sweep fifty CC champion. And then through his mother, Betty and lesser extent through his father Graham, I was aware of him in his youth. And then he's then you switch to cause. So when Graham was killed and the hill family, the mother and Damon the sun and the two daughters Richardson Samantha were cost into the wilderness because crime hills insurance was validated for Broadway reasons, and they were all very hard times. So I'd lived on through this where voted happened. And when Damon crossed the line to win the world championship after losing it to shoe my in dubious circumstances. And nineteen ninety four. It really did all well up inside, man. God spontaneous doesn't go to stop. Now. Call another mouth wrote, the I I had genuine legal leppin throat. He stay in touch with Damon. Now, I hear from him occasionally and see occasionally. Yes, felt man told me absolutely top man yet second that Beijing kind humble totally could drive a good sense of humor. When he started doing his television work. He was one of two or three people, and basic they pundits. And ISIS said watching the box team and was standing the not really say anything, but listening to the Elvas I was saying to myself getting that Damon. You're a pundit. You're supposed to be saying something on coast now has changed Bill and recognition and he's Charlie good at taking the initiative and asking the right questions on genuinely being thoroughly entertaining from the point of view of someone who's not been there and done that put on it and become well champion. We'll get back to Murray in a moment. But before we go any further I wanted to say a huge, thank you from all of us at F one, bows and the beyond the grid team. You'll support messages since we launched the podcast of being fantastic. And we've had a record start to our second series. It's humbling to hear how much she rule enjoying these interviews all around the world. So keep on sharing thoughts with us using the F one beyond the grid. Hashtag noise off focus on continues to be all motto for series two. And that's why as we celebrate f ones. One thousandth race. We have a special treat in store. Ten. Yes. Ten lucky listeners are going to be the recipients of their very own pair of Bose QC thirty five to wireless headphones. If you get your name cooled out then rest in the knowledge that soon you'll be receiving a special package, which will allow you to experience the superb twenty hours battery life that these headphones can. Provide you can lose yourself in the capabilities of the world class noise reduction technology that Bose is renowned for and you can test out the Amazon, Alexa, and Google assistant functions. All for yourself. I'll be announcing five listeners names now and the final five at the end of my chat with Murray. So here we go thank you to Nick Walker who said Carlos science was a phenomenal interview. And that the humility and professionalism of Carlos is just what McLaren needs for the long-term. Awesome guy despite his indifference to Milton Keynes, well knit. Yeah. Indeed. Now number to grow cool on Twitter who shed that. He was listening to the lucrative Montezemolo episode while driving to work and was constantly checking his mirrors for honking cars will keep the honks to a minimum in future, grow cool. Sarah Jones sorry to hear that you've been hobbling around off a biking accident. But I'm glad you enjoyed the chat with Guenter Stein. And I hope it. Help distract you from some of your pain, get better soon and Daniel Johnson loved listening to the iceman Kimmy Reichen and said that he's a breath of fresh air what I can confirm Dan, you that the interview was as much fun as it sounded. And finally, a huge. Thank you to Michael Gell who set up a Twitter account to say the following what an epic to episodes of beyond the grid serious insights from Luca and DC series two is a step above series one. Keep it up, Tom. Well, we will as long as you. Keep listening. More details on the QC thirty five twos can be found at Bose dot com. But first, let's get back to more incredible insights from the great Murray walk. For all. Of course Damon is intrinsically linked to Senna S incentive and Murray. One thing that always struck me as when circumstances got very difficult. A driver was killed for example. You always said the right thing you go the tone, right? And I'm thinking specifically of emelin ninety four when we lost Roland Ratzenberger and debt and Senate. Just your memories of that weekend, and how difficult it was to say the right thing. Very difficult. Indeed till. There again because I'd been doing it as long as I had been doing it. And because I was doing. Full Minna to as well in formula, three and four minute Ford and all the other things I used to catch these drivers right at the beginning of their careers. And I did with Senator in ninety nine hundred two when he was. Putting everything in Formula Ford. So I was aware of his career very much an interviewed him. I'm dean times, I pay slot along window into this matter from the courtroom. We have plenty the microphones you. Not in the winter of nineteen ninety three. I had got out some tape tapes. I have done of the iconic the nineteen Eighty-three in full meal. Three when Senna and Martin Brundle were battling for the title, send a one it. But Multan one a lot of the races and only just fail to witted himself. And I and I realized I that time I have been talking about I ant on center. And I'll have become sloppy. Like a lotta people and was not a codeine at and center. So resolved in the nineteen ninety four. That I would use his correct pronunciation of his Christian. I'm so in the first race of the which was I in Japan. If I remember grab a second. First race was Interlagos. I think tracers into law. Said spun out in shoemaker won the second race was that I eat and. Senegal tough told by them. I can all Llerena government, which it will. And so we're now San Marino the first European race. I sat down with Senna and said. Well. Well at noon. Was it to racist down? You haven't got any points shoe MacOS, go twenty. Lots to do what happened to me? So. Wash showed how how do you know about that you're in the car, and I'm talking? I said I keep in touch Murray. That was a typical example of how Senator had called his finger in every pie run up to the Hilton knew a little L alot of what was going on. Now. It's another greatest of all time. Low to me not. I- brilliant charismatic. Superb person in so many ways, but so utterly. Determined to win. Do what may and cost? What it may that he did some highly reputable things like crowding prostitute like taking off in Japan. And I don't you think he overstep them all remediated. On those occasions. Yeah. What he did in Japan was absolutely our -rageous. Yeah. Did you say that Tim did you ever say that? No, I didn't bo-. 'bout 'bout. In Australia their end of the season. It was then Jackie Stewart was doing an interview with Senna. Before one before me, and Jackie was absolutely brilliant. Just took Senator apult send lost his temper with him. Is that when Senna said he couldn't didn't cut him? Jackie Stewart, Stewart, we don't go for a gap. You are no longer a racing drivers. That's the future. That's it. That's it. So I then to follow Jackie Stewart who did it immensely immeasurably better than I would have done. Anyway with outrageous Senator, but it had some it took to be perfectly honest with you go against it too. Good to do it the second time. So the answer is no. But it was. Now, don't use the word tragedy to the BBC's. Senna's death at Imola was a tragedy. As you pointed out. Play. We had Rubens Barrichello having a nine unto death crash on the Friday. We had roller Ratzenberger being killed on Saturday. And so. When. Liberalize started at some Etima. Let's marina. And. Just charter member. Who that was it went into the back of JJ later. I'll tell you had your lemme on was it. Pedro lamy. Yes. It was damning Notre stop. Yeah. Yeah. The star as a result of which. The safety car came out. With all the wisdom of hindsight. I should have stopped the rice. Now, bring the safety car out on the safety car in those days was not a specially souped up. No, say dis Baynes driven by highly talented drive as it is. Now, it was whatever was around like a field Puto driven by somebody got some talent. But they full minnow one. 'cause what trundling round for several laps while they clean up the debris, and as a result of which Todd temperatures went down as a result of which the ride highlight went down of the 'cause they were closest to the ground. When the rice started again with. Shoemaker and send a vying for the lead sent a sent a went off on my first reaction to him was. Wow, that's a big one which sounds pretty casual. But I said that because I had seen on other years at exactly the same corner. The time we were alone the Kelly L Liberato golf, I'm was alright now some Pika golf hurt his foot. But he was all right Gerhard Berger, not only go off. But to be in the car with it on fire, and I was thinking talking about someone who's being done to Christmas for very is. They called him out. So my first instinctive reaction, I think was it hasn't been too bad in the park. Probably won't be too bad now. But then I'll rapidly realize when professor sued Watkins of if they f- is medical chap, who was absolutely brilliant came out, the race was stopped the body language whose very elemental. And I didn't know what was happening because I was in the country books. And there wasn't anybody to tell me I had pictures from ri- they Italian television company coming into the box. But which were not the not the nicest and wouldn't have been shown by the BBC. Literally for the first on the BBC got his own camera unit. The so about Wilkin, the producer was able to cut away to less worrying pictures. But I have to the Thai row between. Don't worry, folks. It'll be all right. I've seen three others go for the same point. And they were perfectly. All right. He'll say back and oh do. I this is terminally you say. That sort of thing. Somehow or other you have to fund the woods to walk that tight rope between the two. And then he was taken away in the helicopter on the rice who started but the atmosphere of gloom and misery at. What many people regard as the greatest drive revolt time almost certainly begging about to die and subsequently doing? So was immeasurable. Let's. Let's move on to some other topics. Now, I think favorite race over these your career or stroller love. I'll try. Adelaide Melbourne late actually difficult to put a cigarette paper between them, but Adelaide is small. I'm not gonna say friendlier because Melvin was very friendly to. But it was it was a different that the indefinable difference between the full middle. One's race being everything to Adelaide on the the full metal one race subconsciously being another major sporting confrontation in Melbourne was tennis and lots of other things against it. But I the venue was absolutely brilliant. An I've loved the Australians, I love the country. I love the food. I love the attitude about the place, my wife FU lived there, which advocated the says, it's very well for you. Because you've only been there when you you. You have been the chap though taught them about the Formula one that they were passionately interested in and they made a gigantic fuss of you. You haven't been there in an all straight in summer when the temperatures are forty five degrees. Another tool pleasant, and she was perfectly run. But. Who cares? I still think it's fabulous bombs on. Would you consider yourself to be a tech savvy person? I'm not particularly and luckily, we've got a great team of people at F one do amazing work on our website. And that's the topic that I wanted to talk to you about now, if you're looking to create a professional website by yourself perhaps for your own business, or perhaps you want to breathe new life into your existing website. Then look no further than wakes wicks is the most technologically advanced website building platform available allowing you the option to either start your website from scratch or choose from over five hundred stunning templates. So you have the freedom of complete creative control over your own website, one hundred forty million people use wigs for their websites. So if you're looking to branch out or build your brand online than it's a good place to start all sites include built in SEO tools. So you can boost visibility of your website and get found online in search engines, like Google and Bing, and if you need a little help on that. Front then you can use wicks is SEO ways for a personalized plan when you can get started now by going to wicks dot com. That's wakes w I x dot com forward slash podcast to get ten percent off. Write it down. Wicks dot com forward slash podcast to get ten percents off go that right? Let's get back to marine. Is there a favorite season that you you reflect on what the joy Ritchie to? It's got to be eighty two. Now, just a minute testing. Go to seventy six taste hell of a lot of was seventy six was the names hunt year. Of course when? Want in Spain? And then go disqualified because rear wing was an eight seven angels in too wide. Then you'll memories pinch off. He five years old can remember release things like it was yesterday. Then they won the won one the British girl impre after it had been stopped on the crowd made such a fast, I had to raise the ratio risk of rot. I was doing the BBC radio. Pit-lane? Interviewing James came rushing, positively on his way from getting out of the car back to the president tried to stop him to do an interview very stupid thing to do actually. And it says racial, no, boy, there's a regime. And got called a golden the refixed car that Alastair Cordwell, and he's mates Marlboro has managed to do while keeping the F I officials. Okay pie by making protests and generally being difficult to give themselves time. And then James won the British girl in prey on to have that disallowed on. Then you had the nikei loud. Crashing Linda buggering, which ended as career with Harare in very nearly ended his life. And finally you had a credible situation. Munza? No, no. They almost fun who loud a came back almost literally from the dead and finished well in the points, and a blood sake plugged soaked, crush home. And then drove in the race. It was going to decide the championship allowance race of the Japan at Fuji. The weather conditions were so pooling that he has the guts the courage to to pull out of the race and say, my life matters moving the championship, and and James one, and it was another traumatic situation where he called up puncture and had to come in. Anyway, nineteen seventy six the hell of a year by then then she said early Murray seems seventy six was so integral in in persuading the BBC. To take the school. It was the cost of is pivotal in so many ways it was closer was such a wide before you. And because it was James because he was British the public suddenly became aware of Formula one really aware of Formula one and the baby she started to televise it, and it was because the BBC's started to ton of is it the full metal one became as popular worldwide as it did as it has I'm interested when I posed that question you immediately came back and said eighty two because khaki roseburg's championship but tragedy is well with Jovian staff and did he Perot Niyaz while having a bad accident in the Ferrari, what was it about eighty two stood out Monaco when we had I think four different drivers leading the last couple of labs co festival PROST was leading. And crack crushed out that is place was taken by Ricarda, portrays as in the closing state. And I mean the last lap, but one Ricardo portrays in the problem who lost it on the way down to the happen. And then did he Pironi took over in the Ferrara owner, they to I can't remember whether it was a petrol starvation or electrical fool, but he's is cost stopped in the tunnel. So briefly believe it or not answer the change was in the lead. Then he re- retard-. The race wanted to win. It was under of one the Derek daily in the Williams is now leading on. And he lost a rear wing. The Russell thing. I'm meantime, Ricarda portrays e add regained and won the rice. And there's never been ROY slot that before it was extraordinarily definitely now favourite race. She said was at laid. But what about favorites circuit? Favorite circuit off think I'm hard put. I think it has to be Spar, partly for personal emotional reasons. My father rushed the Bill in the Belgian Grand Prix at spa and with great success. And that was a ton. Of course, when it was the really long. So I could not look shoulder one. So they have now for safety reasons, but spa in the Dan is a wh- still even though it's been shown a brilliant. So like it Olmos of public roads kit in chlorof- surroundings. The Belgians have the best food in Europe. And it's almost a very a thumping good rice. It's it's the rice Damon Hill one for Jordan to prove that he could win a race in more than one for full among constructor Lowy. Nick, a time nearly one Ferraro's William so do you? Remember, it didn't you wouldn't even the. Dan in the war as well. Yes. I was I was in a tank regiment, as I think I'll say they're on and. Yeah. The the battle of the bulge. Were Hitler's loss. Despairing throw was to Chuck the whole of the way to the western van marked against. Britain and charter charter to through to the channel coast as they had done in Dunkirk years earlier and. I was we were a reserve regimen waiting to go in. But they Americans did it. Absolutely brilliant job. That was a general cold general McColl, if notes McAuliffe they used to use him because they thought he was nuts and the Germans had an an impossible situation. And I demanded is is re retirement. Soulread? No. So that's what I'd like you for not see said and the the Americans brought managed to bring up reinforcements and one and that was basically they ended the beginning as follows Hitler, and the German vow concerned on the western front, and that was all around NIA spa from then on way, we broke through and I had uh. An absolutely unbelievable. Experience of driving across Germany chasing, the retreating German army. I'm being instructed by the twenty first army group, we were the lead regiment. Liberty Yami I'm we had instructions to get to Lou allu- back before the Russians because Luebeck on the. East coast of slows week host on peninsula controlled that excess to ten months Finland Sweden and Norway. No ever got there. I was going to be a strong position. We we we did an eight hundred mile March in the last day, which in a tank is unbelievable. And we think that with the Russians we were the first Bridget. I pretty sure didn't the rich in the army to do. So and the first Russians we saw thrill them on a German captured BMW motorcycle outfit with scored here. The handlebars an officer on the Pilion and a Russian woman soldier in the sidecar. I'm we did it will lay Fratton housing thumbs up, and they will say Luebeck Luebeck. We wish I wear live. Right. Where that fast up yours. How funny that it was a motorcycle as well. You're special. Keeps coming back to that doesn't it? Final thoughts just on sort of the big picture of former one. Is there a favorite team that you you've enjoyed watching fraternizing with? People. You knew people you respected is there a favorite team? Yes. Williams. What a romantic? Story that is hopefully not with a sad ending. But I so Williams from when Frank Williams and piers courage. A one call team on then. Frank went with the tamasha and subsequently founded his own team caught Patrick had board built this incredible organization as a private owner, the one so many world championships for drivers and constructors. Only to fool on the hard times that they're in now, and I hope and pray so they going to be able to fly they way out of it. But it's going to be terribly difficult against the money might of Mercedes Benz and Ferrari and red bull onto a lecture extent Reynaud, uneven some of the others, but pain someone before times nargile Mansell, Nelson PK cake, roseburg, David KU, hod and all the rest of them. Driving Williams melt released home, of course was center. On diamond hill. So that's my answer Williams and. Kobe with them and they managed to pull themselves out by the bootstraps. What does the next thousand races hold for Formula one? What would you like which direction would you like to see change, Tom? I'm not sure about and what direction is gonna change. Because when I started the driver had their engine in front of him was wearing cotton overalls and a skullcap the we're no run off areas. There was no co the medical facilities will minimal and the whole topa for the drivers stuck out of the top of the car. Look at it. Now, the they drive around in safety sales. With lots of our co with runoff areas with brilliant, medical facilities with halos and all the rest of it thank heavens. Now, the first question is is still going to be an internal combustion engine. Or are they gonna be Electric's ity? I find it very difficult to generate any future Yasim about formula, e to be honest because part of the crepe part of their traction of Formula, one is the noise unto to have something whining posture. It's not the same as hearing a fool blooded v twelve or even as they are now turbocharged engine. So it's got to change. And and I don't know in what direction is going to change whether it will continue as some sort of. Internal combustion formula whether become electrical if it becomes electrical. I think I have lived through the best of it. Well, Marie what fascinating. Thank you very much. Put a what an eclectic and amazing life. You've lived last torture torment. If I'm a return the pros, I remember vividly when in my ham fisted. Unfamiliarity with modern digital techniques. I used to write my rice stories because I was in cobalt it enough to send them back till HQ electrically. You used to talk them out full me and send them through at. I have never ever forgotten that, and I have full ever been grateful to you. Thank you very much. That's very kind my typing Israeli not like. Murray. We've had a lot of fun over the years. Now, I thought just as an out for the young listening to this. They have missed out by not listening to you. Cool. The start of a racist any chance just as we leave this podcast. You could say and it's over team are so watched the lights it's five lights four nights three nights two nights. When I go go go. Murray. Thank you very much. Unless I'm very much mistaken. That was the legend that is Murray. Walker? It was such a privilege to spend time with him and to see him looking so well after we'd finished the recording. We went to the pub for lunch, and he regaled me with more stories from his long and very full life. And that voice, I don't know about you. But I got goosebumps as he launched into commentary mode at the end Murray, thanks for your time. And I hope we'll see you at a racetrack again soon. And finally, his the moment you've been waiting for the final five the lucky listeners who will be receiving a shiny pair of Bose QC thirty five to wireless headphones. Thanks to Nashi who said if f one runs in your blood, you should be listening to f one beyond the grid this podcast keeps on giving. Thanks. No. She Andrew Morris was kind enough to say, thanks for another excellent podcast. I've spent the last month listening to all the f one beyond the grids while traveling to work loving the insight into Formula one history and the environment, especially the. Episode with DC Gary Honey message us wondering what content has been edited to to time constraints. Well, that will have to be on a little secret. I'm afraid Gary. And thank you to Gino Lucchini for allowing us to keep you company on the train to work and feel note. I've just finished the F B on the grid back catalogue. He says finishing with the amazing life of lucrative Montezemolo. What a passionate and emotional mind, a true hot blooded Italian. Yes. Indeed. And finally Hannah Collins who wrote in saying, I'm not a shoemaker fan and then team Bill nerve in brackets in Ninety-seven. But it was a fascinating insight into a clearly private, man. I love this podcast, Tom Clarkson, F one. Does a great job. That's very kind of you Hannah, very kind. Indeed, keep talking to us using the F one beyond on the grid hashtag or tweet me at Tom Clarkson, F one thanks again to each and every one of you feel support so far. Well, that's it for now. All that remains is for me to say if you haven't. Already subscribed to be on the grid. Why not do? So now. So you never miss an episode where on apple podcasts Spotify and tons of other podcasts platform see next week for another chat with a big name from the world of f one the on the grid is produced five one in association with audio until next time keep it out. Blackout.

Murray Wilco BBC Laura Tom Clive James Larry walker Japan Martin Brundle David KU Damon hill Monaco Senator Damon Nick Walker Frank Williams producer Bose Bahrain
39: Jean Alesi: The day I stopped driving in F1 was the worst day of my life

F1: Beyond The Grid

1:06:18 hr | 1 year ago

39: Jean Alesi: The day I stopped driving in F1 was the worst day of my life

"Hello. I'm John Lizzy. I'm gal beggar and you're listening beings agree. Hello, everyone and welcome. Once again to your favorite podcast beyond the grid. Presented by Bose quiet comfort thirty five to wireless headphones. Now when you think of ninety s Formula one who will what springs to mind, I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that for me, my guess this week is near the very top of the list. Who is it? We'll start by thinking about screaming Ferrari v twelve I in some Sicilian roots in a trade but tended to rip on the steering wheel head tilted while quartering. Have you guessed yet it is? Of course, the great John Alesi Joe was in many ways the perfect Ferrari-driver. He was passionate fast and loved by Ferrari fans the world over not only for his speed. But for the way, he wore his heart on his sleeve, you'll carry the number twenty seven on his car, Mirroring Ferrari legend, Zillow in many ways, John was the nineties violent of Jill. And don't be misled by the fact that he won only one race in Canada nine thousand nine. Eighty-five Alesi was brilliantly fast on his faith, and he had many stellar performances. Ruined by misfortune, John is a regular in the paddock these days now that his son Giuliano is racing in formula too. We hooked up at the recent Spanish Grand Prix to talk about all things Alesi. And I think you'll be surprised and delighted by some of his revelation. Ozo-? Welcome to be on the radio. It's fabulous to have you with us. And when I look at you just sitting opus it me now, I think of you a pit Temiz nineties Formula one because you are fast, you're passionate, you a fun. Just how do you reflect on it? All now the festival I have to say I've been very lucky to raise at this time of motto spots because for the rivals. It was a dream time. We had a lot of freedom and freedom mean, sir, especially when you have a passion of what you're doing. It said doing what you want and two of the link with the public. I will take as an example when I was driving fulfill alley. We went this thing in. Immo now, but every day before the end of the checking flag of the testing, we are to stop on the finish line and to make doughnuts and to come back to the pits that was a duty. If you had if you miss this donuts and this. Bye bye to the public will be very the public was very upset. So I had to do it. And I enjoy so much and that means a lot, and it's a picture of the ninety s fund public driving. It was all of those things, and you you had to such an iconic style. I mean, you just look at your hand position on the steering wheel. The moment you saw those hands as an observer eight was you and the tilting of the heads, and we looking always for these freedom. The engineers also at the freedom because we were driving v twelve Veton V8. gals. So the architecture IT architecture of the cows was different. And sometimes the engineer was seeing obeys away. There is a driver inside. So we have to see how we fit in. And I had a moment in in. Hillary when the cow was designed and. This sitting we'd was too low, and obviously at the time in no power steering, and they didn't have the power to turn the steering wheel. So I found this position on the steering wheel or was a suitable for my speed and power to turn and to complete the car. So you didn't have your hands in that position in the junior formulas in formula three formula three thousand not plus when I go up through the year in in two thousand the steering wheel start to be like now with all the button, and we are the these square sitting with so not to put the end on the top. So I too old. My my ends. Left. And right. You know? And that's was not a problem at all. But it was the the monocoque was a bit higher. We start to have more volume inside of the chassis. Because also when the chassis was so narrow the elbow inside. Was painful, you know, to have the elbow inside. And to turn this thing with it was not easy. How fantastic. So you could adapt. It wasn't. This is the only way I can drive. No, no. I was my my feeling was really the spin of the rear wheels. That I need to have it'll always Mike our life. So that gave me the feedback of the council, but the position of steering with. I should be also able to drive with one hand at the time show. A, hey, you talk about you know, you need to have the rare alive and you had the number twenty seven and the whole the comparisons visual whale now where to be made Weltman yet. But you know, when you are former one driver is difficult to say we are modest, but we always very modest. And and I think is a key of the success. If you see now Lewis Amilton. Is for sure the best driver right now. But is not embarrassed. But when you talk about afternoon sinner for him is y'all for me the same when there was driving. I and many ills and. Some of them was actually racing with me like air, turn L impulsiveness on PK, and they had a lot of respect and enjoyment to fight and race wisdom. But I have a dream drivers. Like Gina will know why never raise with him. But he gave the expiration to me to be a racing on Royal she. Yeah. He was the inspiration. How fantastic visual why why was it Formula one for you? Because your dad was a was a rally driver. You started out in was it Reynaud five. Yeah. Because. It was such a and hitch categories Formula one for me, I didn't sink even once to be one day racing informed one. But I was choosing the categories link of the pies Monet to continue to raise because my father St. now, we have the push the Kelsey the shop. But we didn't have a Birgit saw the only things he was able to do is to give me a room in the and to buy the base car. I used I have to raise. So when I was eighteen I sat on a five Capone five and then formula Renault because pies, Monet was able to give you some afresh. Need to continue from one race to to the other one. But then slowly going up in the categories. I start to have a success. So I found the litter sponsorship at the time we are the the law who gave us with the cigarettes the tobacco industry to other easy Mona so Malbo than camel, and then back to Marlborough who gave me the chance to be able to to go up and then to win the from the three then to win the from the three thousand and finally to reach from Amman our relations with Eric comas when you're coming up together because you kept beating him didn't you in three you beat him? And then in after thousand finished second again. Yeah. Erica mass was. You know in each country, you are the south and the north and the north doesn't like the cells the celsius always at the the place where you don't take in the people resell us because you you imagine especially in France, or we need that in southeast Asia the summer or the time you go to the beaches, you drink pestis, I mean. Is not very you're not taken by a French people. So seriously, and that was from the south so in from the north I had so much good time to be Moore's time. So I I had a very good. And respect. Racing zim. But I was so apy to beat him. Because I'm I was from the south end he was from his nose. And of course, in three thousand you beat him while driving for Eddie, Jordan. And just tell us about what it was like to be with Eddie back in those days at the time was I didn't I don't know if you change, but was completely crazy. And he hasn't changed. Great. Because I such a good time with him and his family because I was not speaking one world in English and the took me to an Irish family with all the kids in the house and for the first week. I was completely lost. But he gives me so much a power to continue my career in twelve me to in Formula one. But with Eddie the fund is the funniest story was when he signed me interior for one race that is that was in July and. We still then finish false. Just he's a he put the deal with Ken is again. Yeah. Is Eddie you put the deal with tell to raise one company, and is stopped to bet with can tear. I'd say. You will see is going to be faster than your top drivers. And it was so embarrassing for me, you know, because they just wanted to to be informed one. That's it. But anyway, finish force of the race. And of course, I continue with can tear the end of my my career my season. Plus, obviously that was the beginning of bike area. But I went to him and they say, okay, thank you. You are fantastic is because of you you on I'm informed. One good luck for former three thousand. I said what do you mean? Good Eddie, I'm in resulted in because I want to reach from one. Now, my contract is done. So thank you and say, no way, you win the championship or otherwise, you will not drive the former one anymore said. Okay. So are yet to raise one weekend. Former three thousand so one weekend former three thousand one weekend, the former one and I won the formula three thousand. And championship. One race Ed of the end, that's bam. Give me the opportunity to raise the the end of the championship Japan, and the Austalia you think if you hadn't won it with one race to go Eddie would have made you do the three thousand not the foot short. I say recent you to him because to title. It is nice. You know, I won. Only one in my life. Which is a definitely what? I would like to be changed because I wrote of races. I finished seventeen times sickened sooty three times on a podium. So anyway, in one way, one win is not is not what I was thinking. But. I know now and may record is a champion of from resulted name very appreciating. Can I ask you now about at an Senator because as you rightly say that first race fronts Eighty-nine you came in you finished fourth, but you actually ran as high as second in that race center was very much the man at the time wasn't he how was he with you the new young gun who's coming in was clearly had a big future in Formula one at the time. Nobody knew me, you know. In the. After it was definitely I was not a problem for him. And I'm not sure is sink about me because he was a already like a cat and dog wiza- Allen either in McLean at the time. But. It was nice for me to to see specially Nelson Piquet the the next country. You came to me and say in Italian Sombat, I understand well you are coming by yourself with your browser alike. My story, you know, and the we we start to to to a. To have a good relationship and actually Nitzan ticket was fantastic with me from day one in Formula one and. It's a stolen. Nobody knows. But it's him or make the contact in between Filaret and myself. And now you have at home Philly at forty because on the contract, he put Ferrari forty as a a gift from Ferrari, and I said to to Nelson Nelson. I cannot give that to the president of he said shut up give gives us and now I of their forty because of Nelson who will make the contract with me what a fabulous did. So he did the negotiations between you and the team. Yeah. Because you know, the town that come about nobody has a lawyer or manager we were just talking directly to the people. Presidents to the team owner Frank Williams like Han. Dennis direct, you know? And you know, when you're coming from avenue and the year before you walk with your father in a garage sale is very difficult to to have her on the fond of Hungary. I'm so Montezemolo into say, I would like to have this this kind of Monet's this position unit team spare car in case off and the present from you from the factory that is very tough. And. Nelson adore Radi. Finish almost this guy because we were talking about nine hundred ninety I was as a friend explaining who wants who wanted to to have me in the team and say, okay, let me do the contacts for you. And when he showed me the paper said. And Nicanor gives out to the co two to my to to to the president of Ferrari, it will it will it will laugh any will take somebody else's it give it to him give it to him. And I remember the president read a look at me for a younger driver, you you know, what to put. I think a lot, of course. Well, you'll that was a really interesting time for you. Because tell me if I'm wrong, but I remember it being reported that you had potentially three options. Didn't you four for nine hundred ninety one? You had terrible. I suppose you had Ferrari was another option. That's where you ended up. But there was also Williams is that right? Yeah. Nobody a big difference in scale. I was on contract with. But in winter of eighty nine ninety I signed a contract an option with Williams. Okay. And this option was for ninety one two and three. And. And. Everything was fine for me. Indies option was. If you. If in I mean. You have contact for three years. But if in five hundred on pre we don't make the announcement to the public. It becomes a option until September for Williams. And when my lawyers saw these contracts, they say. Is risky because if you saying that then you are locked them with with Williams September September can say, no, I I take some of the years. So I went to see Hong yards, Kim funk. A why you pussies? Three year line and say, no, I need it. Because for whole I cannot decide and I would like to make them decide by themself. Ceo could take L. I will have the contract is it. Okay. Let's say that to my room, I Senate, and they say we start the championship. That was Phoenix. Amazing race for people who don't know what happened in Phoenix. What an amazing race by was amazing race. Then John I need to stop. You. Just remind people you overtook at and Santa for the leader that race. But for fun because I I was flying away at the beginning of the race. And that's why you. The freedom of the engineers El Pollo two drivers. I v eight engine. Certificate or less fuel than anybody else who is v ten of twelve. So at the beginning of the race, Mike Michael was very light, and they disappear. But then when I saw I ad oncoming and said, okay, we'll pass me. But I will give him a lot of very odd time. And this is what I did saw overshoot the biking, and then it cost him. But I knew it was just for one lap. What did he say to you after the race? He said the end ties was okay. Because at the time I was whispering. And he was with a good year there to stop. I made the always was the same set of tires. So he was shocked about the the life of the tires. But. It was just interesting about technique and the cows e was not so friendly. I, you know, I have done is a yo yes. But he was not finally with other other rivals. Well, anyway, that was a race where journalists really arrived tenure. So so the back to the story. So then. When I came back fan Colby and said, John cage itself, call solo came so exciting, and then he was Monaco and again in Monaco finish second being afternoon. So everything was going well, and there was very exciting. But when we're right to the French company, no announcements, I said to Nelson, this Anderson, I'm in horrible because non-alignment now is a option, and this one was a bit upset with me because he said, I told you not to sign because it was one of. May advisors in Don side anyway. I said, okay. I don't I will go to to funk the following race was. Was SilverStone and they went to the bottom and safe please sign the contract. Right now, you have a contract with you said fine is an option anticipate number so McDonald spent because otherwise I have some other possibility I say, I know is Ferrari and yes, sorry. I get upset with him. I said but was him and I left the the following night. I had a. An appointment with the president of lowering this. Okay. If you give me the the years contract, plus you take care of my buyout, tour Williams, and I sang with you. They prepare the paper the morning, they gave me the paper. I went to Hong modem is hunk. I sign all you sign. And then I say, no all your we have option, but blah, I went out of the motorhome. I say they give it to Charlie. And they know that is end of the story was Williams. Wow. And that was a move that. So defined your career in so many ways wasn't it. He and Bert. Do you ever stop now? And just think God I five been driving that Williams in nineteen ninety two ninety three. Okay. Because he's might I might can talk legs out. I don. At the time was dreaming of the Williams. And you drove the Williams you knew how we went up. So is nothing against the team is, but the destiny it is everything for me. So I'm not. I don't regret anything. I don't blame anybody. But the destiny is like that. And I had a very good Formula one time I raise for two hundred and one on I think very much Williams for the inter they had at the time for me, but we didn't make a happen. And this like that, and you were the perfect Ferrari as well, let's not get away from that your relationship with it to foresee the. It was a it was a wonderful marriage between you to talk about Ninety-one teammate with Alain process. What did you learn from Ella rot? Like, not like, your shall look clear, and and Vitelic because now the kids I see they go up in a team and they beginners, but they are they're already professionals, and they have so many information from the simulators and living in team makes a big difference. But for me was a my first year in Formula one then a move to Ferrari. Mighty mate was a four times world champion. Very open. You know, because I was expecting maybe to either the the setup or, you know, at the time we were able to make not to teams, but in one but to either little bit the six and Allen, I've been as been always always very open and help me a lot. But Lizzy Sierra the cow was very bad and one severely bodies. Because the previous year they almost win the championship this year. We didn't won one race. Plus Allen was fired before the end of the season. So that was Dr Matic situation for me. He called it a truck or attracted it was a bit change because it is said to the press you just need to have a arms like a trucker. And they was changed. But what the, you know, the it was a pity action. But that car was quite a lot better than the ninety two. Kyle. Ninety two know. It was all the time. A kind of. Changing every single like in the football. You change the trainer every six games. So you cannot make it. Right. So Niki louder was chosen by by. Montezemolo any other the free the freedom to to make him. And is what he did they start to to build a team and until Ninety-three when they're engage engage. Engage a sheltered and John Todd gave a chance to a jonbenet to walk. So with maker Chamara, but he understood the technical office as to be Inman in or not in Guilford. So they are they rebuild again all the systems. So every year something was changing and changing and changing. So we're not continue to on on what we were doing. What kind of an impact though, in terms of the relationship with the drivers did Todd have. Rival John Todd was. Listening every single complain any single wishes he was extremely close to the drivers. But also to the to the engines, I think is the the person I made in motorsport who gave the most trust on each sector. Obviously you need to do the job. Then. Burger comes along. Heart lovely Gerhardt. He came from McLaren where he was famous for his practical jokes with center and things like that. How did you find Gerhard at the beginning? I was not very happy. When you arrive in. I says that what was your issue? What what was your issue with him coming to the team because? I found out the press as usual Gazzetta dello spot one week before explain all the details of the contract. So I read it was a fellow river testing 'priority new paths. So when I read that I called him, I called, Nikki, Nikki, do you think is it. Foul what you are doing because I'm saying I'm doing my man, I give my life to to Ferrari. And because now you restrict you ever seen on a better way, you bring another driver from outside and you make him as a fest drive that I don't like. And in any case that was fantastic. Remember, I was I was in distinct in Portugal, one of coral with N. Nikki said, okay, what you want more money as for? For you. I don't need more money. I I love my what I'm doing. I need. To be like him. I don't need anything else and said, okay. Okay. Let me do something. Then Montezemolo call me. I said, John John don't worry we have to put it like that. But you will have the same. I will be not different and in. There was true. But said okay ever gift for you. Any offer me the fairly deaf ninety two I have at home still now the so I like your out because of the car and actually. From day one. We did five years together string theory and twin in Benetton and. Fantastic time with him as a. D- mate? Even if. I had sometimes to to fight in on the political way. It was very very good. You know, and sometimes I was found discovering situation. I was not expecting but. How interesting John because people's perceptions of Gerhard that he was a happy. Go lucky fun guy. Yeah. Now, very clever guy. Okay. Be live everything. Six. Bert, but extremely proficient. Is it true? That you arrived at a test somewhere upside down in a higher car. Yes. That was. Eighty percent may fought and the rest is fought. Because I wanted to scare him. Actually, we were in Fiorano, and as a two-test they won. I was eighteen they too. So it was there in office of cross Toronto and you've been the door. So means. Come with me. I go to you know. So I I came out. And when we came we I was out with him on a on the package said bring me to Furano in is your car. Okay. I don't have a cow. So I knew it always was living this East Carolina front was kion. So I went in cal- southern guy they stopped you're to to drive very very aggressively to scare him. But the problem is every Connie was ordering the end breaks, and it was a Lancia actually ten. I remember very well. And we to make one corner to corner. And then when we arrive on the front of the house of Enzo Ferrari, it's shop corners or a break down shift. When I turn to the breaks in the Catholic legs on the roof your bosses car. So the mechanic sports fantastic. They onto us. They I the car with a special ten and I remember. Gerardo run in the in the Formula one you put the as is elementary, and at this moment, John Montezemolo, and John Bon after right, but the cow was already, you know on. Cordell with a Tate and jonbenet's at what is it the prototype because the front hoof was touching the steering wheel. You know, and the real was like v, you know, and and nobody can reply and they walk to the car and say a lot to get outta. I was getting you know, because I was bleeding a little bit from the top of my head and Gadot, the friend said to Ron. Gene. At the next to king about me and say is I don't know maybe the went to your spittle. So said really really, and they they were all looking after me because gal said he had an accident. But then when he found out why and how he was so upset with me. But anyway AS Roma's out saying. I said how you can do something like that. But he didn't care about me care about this. An honor. Imagine there's a whole bunch of stories. Well that way. Yeah. We'll get back to the great journalist in just a minute. But first this if you're looking to create a professional website for your own business, or perhaps you want to breathe new life into your existing website. Then I've got little tip for you. Which might be helpful wicks is the most technologically advanced website building platform available. So it's no wonder one hundred forty million people currently use it for their own website wakes can cater for all your needs. If you're starting your website from scratch or refreshing an existing projects it gives you a choice from over five hundred stunning templates. So you have the freedom of complete creative control in whatever you want to achieve which is very important for any brand. No matter what stage of your online journey. You're at all sites include built in SEO tools. So you boast visibility online and be found in search engines, like Google, and Bing, and if you need a little help on that front, then you can use wicks is SEO whiz for personalized plan, and you can get started. Now by going to wicks dot com. That's wakes w I x dot com forward slash podcast to get ten percent off. Write it down wicks dot com forward slash podcast to get ten percent off. Now, let's get back to Mr. Lacey. Now, Emily ninety four. Obviously, you're a Ferrari driver at the time. But you'd had that testing accident and new at Mugello see one actually racing that we can where you at Imola for for the race. So I broke actually. Mugello my C four and five so massive massive. Remember to wake up in your speed are actually, you know. So he was something incredible things. God was in one piece and do not have a problem for the rest, but I had to miss two races Aida and immoral and on fi I was at the hospital with professor Cy Young. When when belco the massive, you know. So everybody was a Radio New shock of this accident because I know if you remember the picture, but the care was really flying in the fan in the fence, and he had just his arm walking, you know. Then on Saturday. I was in. Those are which is at the end of Tom Morello at the time. Tomboy was okay. He's long Connor. And then you have those are which is a place where all the ferry funds go. So because it was not racing. I wanted to be on the middle with them, you know, and I watch a qualifying there. And then hamburger this accident. Just on my fits, you know. And I remember the the noise of the car into the water, then we we understand the other poem when you left the circuit. But it was still a moment. A time when nobody imagine you can die within Formula one, you know. So when he died. It was of course, a big shock and big problem for for everyone. But I found a kind of from the media in the driver's yet. But you know, Dr for Simtek. Yeah. But the Simtek, but Simtek, okay. When after nine I wasn't a pitiful who John Todd next to him and it was just after restart so. We saw we we see the shunt event movie we saw the cow passing. And then after two laps the shins or one Lebanon. I remember, exactly. We were so. Afternoon was one of the driver aware. Sometimes he was exaggerating the movement. No, no. If you remember in in. Miss Mexico, yet an accident in in free practice or grow qualifying. And it was in care for long. No, no, not just one another one. And you will stay in your careful long time and everybody was waiting. You know in. With took it at as a domestic accident. But not as Tom attic because two years before. Gaffed at with Ferrari went in the world there and the character flaws in the dunno. If you are a member in two PC's with fire everything and went out of the car with summer, Bruce. And but he has no seeing you know, so we we didn't realize straight straightaway. And let's say take the the helmet, and we saw the blood, and then we start to understand. And that was. Earn nightmare. Nobody was living in constant because it was all the time a link in between the the hospital to say the condition of turn stable condition. We wait for the last one, we wait. And then when we are about. Passed away, and nobody left everybody was there. It was very very very special weekend. Did you cheat with them? Did you ever question? Whether you wanted to continue racing nano. No, bert. Many times we try to have meetings with ROY we never end up with more than three or four drivers took into together. Then we and Monaco, and where the meeting altogether. And we really try to say all of it all of us something to improve specially circuit. Because at the time. Max Mosley was. Reacting. Straight away without saying thinking about the engineer will exert or not he put the plunk on the immediately. Then they start the engine cover for the power of the engine immed- immediately react on that. And charlie. Plus, the drivers we start whoever. Talk with her. Then when we have here in in Barcelona, we move the chicane we I mean in Monza we raise with a with a tire in chicane. We try to to avoid as much as possible. Another the hammer. Let's talk about something. More positive in terms of your career. Now, you mentioned Monza there. What was it like to get your first pole position at monitor in front of the Defoe? See as a Ferrari driver that was remember corner by corner because. We are the the power, but I had the confidence on the track because the low downforce and my characteristic anyway was the biking so breaking low downforce light rea-. I was able to rise a car without any problem and every single corner facing the grandson, you see the movement of the flags you understand you are going up. And then when I passed the finish line to to be in pole was. Unbelievable. Do you believe in the power of the crowd to lift your own performance? Unless percent, that's why you understand. Football when they say, okay, we play on the field is the same. But the crown is everything. And when you you drive, a when you do your spot having this link with the public, you can make more. What do you reckon? It was worth. Can we put how many how many tense was it worth? I don't know if you can make me maybe you can be even slower because you exaggerate, but. Not really, you know, you you take the risk and. In in Monza. The layout of the track is like now. But where the grass so the risk you to take was different because it was never ever in a briefing. I've in riffing IOT about track limit because tightly meets for was the war. You know, and. Poor shali. But when I was talking with Ziming recently about the tight limit says, Holly. You remember our time not acclimate problem? Never ever. Use Gus grass grass Grasso. Can I'm I'm end. I go up with a safety, and I'm very pleased to have this kind of safety now on the former one. But he's a little bit going on your aside, you know, because you can put some grass, plus they're one of area like they are now which is fantastic but little grass to just to be penalized. If you exaggerate. Yeah. So the risk you take with the fun. You can do it more. Now did you fail that up uplift more at Monza OMB Aniko on them on the Manica e? I had always the fan Dale close sharing with me. But the public. When you drive for Ferrari, you drive for the tally when you drive in in false. They just take they are because you're French. But you know, in France, we say low why we will if he's us. Nice. If you die in there is another one is nice. Also, you know, there is no Ferraris ever the link in the passion for what you are a night that I like with your Sicilian roots? Mum and dad Sicilian. It is a little bit of you Sicilian as well. Or do you see yourself as French? No. I. I have a I go up. In my family. We always at the Sicilian education because of my grandfather and grandmother always with us in house, not too keen, French we we are to leave like Sicilian. But in France, but I I I like very much to have a mix of culture because French anyway, give you a one year from Sicily. A good mixed. And do you still live your life like that now with your own children? But if how much Italian is spoken the household. Oh, no. We don't speak. A talion the mother of my kids Japanese, but to the kids, speak Japanese. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yes. But they. They know I was still really they know what my father did to to reach. Is let's say to go up his family going out of our country is not easy. You know? Now, what about Canada ninety-five you mentioned earlier about the victory? And prior to that race. Was there a little bit of you that was questioning whether it would ever happen. Definitely. Is is not one of my favorite. Moments of my racing career because I was so stressed not to finish the race. Because so many times to stop leading the race having the race in a pocket. I will say and something was happening. So when I start to lead, and I think it was maybe fifteen or twenty laps to go. That was the worst twenty five lopsided in my life. You know, because always took into my engineer and the time we're not talking talking now. Now, they talk all the time in our time when we talk it's because we had a problem. And I was always a few lucky engine. Okay. Sure. Okay engine. Okay. I I just wanted to finally go home with the Victorian and the and I'm happy about that. Can you remember the emotions now? Yeah. Yeah. Sure. People think for example, I. I finished the fuel in the in lap. You know, but I didn't I was so happy. I went out of the car who say Hello to the fan. But then when I jumped down in in guys told the engine because I was in in seven years and might did Michael pick you up. Yeah. It might stop and pick me up and we come back to the pits. Together, was destig- some much emotion. Great Michael was so pleased for you. As a story is true. And you know. Sometimes I was not shied over the victory because I gave so many times my my position because of. Burying gearbox or whatever something was happening on my car. So I and then they have to to to my first position this time. Michael other a electric engine a problem on your on. This thing will I didn't care say. I was happy. You say you're the ball. We've talked about prostes we've talked about Senate just a few words on Michael shoe maquette. Where'd you hold him in you esteem? So he he's a went to the place where I walk, and I went to the place where he walk. So. So he went too far you at Benetton. He's actually so we. He has no mystery for me to know how we walk out with. He didn't just a for me was. Mr. how sometimes there is some drivers where they are able to give to to make his true what they say, you know, many times in the team you here in Basra new make ten laps then you come in. And you said to to to to your engineer. I would like to have a better Rian because I lose the real. Some drivers. When they sent out to the engineers for sure it's out they walked for that. And some other not and Michael was the typical driver where whatever I was saying the Tim was following is is world and that make him a a huge champion because of the twisty gave to the team and the team walk with him and was very out Walker very poker. And fantastically quick. Yeah. Of course, of course, he has that nobody can say with the numbers of victory. The propositions for sure he was a special, but. Was Senator I was. I don't know how to say, but Sinai impacts be more in what way speed speedway's center. The fastest driver you ever raced in Formula one four four with me. Yes with me. Yes. And you know. Done. And estimated about the Cal withdraw at the time was a qualifying tyres for one shot massive group. Five hundred fifty kilo. The Cowboys very and no power steering e. Impress me, many times many times men woman Joe. Now Schumacher was a guy that did you hang out with them a bit away from the tribes rose. Would you say he was one of the few drivers who became a friend? Yes. Him wife, Lucy became the I think my friends in Formula one Allen post. Michael. And of course, gals. That's really my three solely the person the INA informative one Nelson. I cannot say more than than these three three because was three drivers. I raise a lot with Nelson infinitely left to who is be. What kind of stuff did you and Mike who get up to away from the track? And and g think was the public face of micro Makah, very different to the private face. Yes. Yes. Province face. Family men. Sometimes a little bit too much for for the training. So I was saying to him please give up a bitten stay with me. We we have a. Sweet time meal, but it was always pushing for by seeker for football. But he was a is a great guy. Attempted to join him on one of his rides. So non right now because I'm scared of the Aussies so I've been bicycle but you'll Scott. Michael was into his hostess and Karinna his wife. Actually, I saw once. Also was very good doing their exercise. Yeah. So. You're living in view now where if lived earlier life, tell me about the passion for wine. That. It's bit. Not a passion. But. I was looking for a house in inevitable when I left because I live in in Geneva for different. For different reasons. So I mean Geneva, and I said to my father pass if one day we hear about property, I would like to buy for my retirement when I retire will be there, and we'll look and then we found this owls with the on the front. We have the oil. We have a little form, you know. But said, okay, but the wind the driving doesn't link, but I cannot take everything away. Let's speak with the personal doing the wine. And we see if we can make good products. And we don't say anything we make the wine and the one one they may be we will see if we can talk about the nuts. And I went mad about that. Because the way to make the wine is exactly the same way then driving from one cow. You have to take risk. The risk is not calculated. Because you have a storm all the the things finito you have to make a decision of when you pick up you have to make. The there is a timing of staying in bowels or in cement. Tank every two to be made on the correct time. You know, and then you have the expectation you have to wait and see like when you have a new car, and you have to right to see what it is, you know, and all of these things. Without controlling what I love because you try to make it, but you cannot control everything and. Just waiting the newer the new. Vintage to try to say, okay, good. Not good is bitter one yacht. That is something. I would I get to mad for you. The guy calling the shots when to pick the gray non looking just looking just looking because it's search tough tough. And and. Job and you need to be to Eugen experience to make a good one. When did you buy the property in ninety four? Okay. See for a long time a long time. Now last three teams Benetton SABA prostes where were you happiest? And Jordan, actually, but that was only for a few rates. You know is the best for me was Ferrari. My life was really I had whatever was the result. But to live in this team to live a championship with them. It's fantastic. That was. Difficult to describe. Everything else came off. There was different. Less technical support who the management, but different. It's unique is unique. Good abbad. Whatever is happening. Something is happening. Imagine management there you work with Flavio Briatore and Benetton. How did you find him? And how different was he too? Sean todd. To make to make shot. He was very different. Where were the differences mean Flavio maverick is? But everywhere. The understanding of a motive spot. One hundred for one zero for the one. A third one by Rita highly Monte-Carlo f one championship Luma on how you can. How you can found someone like him compatible to alka Pederson. You can make him to fly view is impossible. Travel was selling shirt before to win from Ron what we're Flavio strengths. Is kind of you know. And when you play count gamble a lot and. He had the. His trained to be close to Banney. Did you clash with him? Quite a lot g failed the Latin. Yeah. Yeah. Nature clashed. Yeah. We we clash lot actually. But it was a good experience for me. And how was alum processed as a team boss was he out of the competitive as a team BUSTER driver e was not a lucky to ever. Financial situation and the technical situation too complicated in one time. So my dream was actually to finish my gear with him and to make hunch team winning together that was mentoring. He didn't happen to share. What were the particular problems with the team or was it just too extreme that that the Persian didn't have enough power? And then ability and was. To complicate. Okay. So you ended with Eddie, Jordan. That made it all happened in the first it was funny because we are a mutual respect in knew he had to wait a decision from on that to have a subtle or not. So I said to me if you want you come, but I don't guarantee you the dry for next year, and that will will be very pleased to view, and they say, okay, I come to you, and how magical was east code points that was his spa magical. Was that spa was very good worries. But. I was at the end of my career. And I knew I the not a good future not stable future. So it was not a magical moment for me because to live from one was the worst day of my life. When I have to say, I stop. What did you miss about? My life. You know, a few few months ago, I had done he had the opportunity to drive the f one in public, but not the latest one. But the the car who Kimmy won the the the race in Abu Dhabi. Twenty thirty. I think it was something and with the owner staff fantastic y'all and I had four laps to do. Okay. You have to understand when you get old. You you have a. Not the same head. You're full of things to sink during the night. So when you go around folk lock, your wake-up, and you can you don't know how to to come back in to slip home. So when I drove his account for follow ups. For one full week. I slept more than eight nine hours a night just being sinking about this lapse about the the corners of the power, the breaking. It is. Some senior you miss when you have the passion of driving a formal on Cairo and did all the magic come straight back immediately immediately magic not physical so full apsos enough for us was too much steering steering wheel L A lot of the power steering. Exactly. But. The head was starting to like her, you know, the left, and right, and then I start to of pain on my bag, but it was didn't care. I I enjoy Mitch. And Joe the good thing is you're able to sort of relive it. All again now through Giuliano your son. How much you enjoying being racing dad? Are you a good racing? Aecom racing. I live with him. By watching on TV in what ching on on track? What's he do? I would like to to give advice nonstop. But I don't I'm just there. And I wait is comment to make him understand something maybe doesn't understand yet. But they have so much information. The young rivals now with okay ease with Ferrari academy. So they there is engineers who are walking them. They go on simulator there. The the race engineer and the team. So everybody's giving advice the advice. I can give him. A feeling I add pre championship pre race after raise going back to one bad race to another one. This kind of since we are talking like. In. I was leading. And then eight laps to go of to stop. Because I lost my wheels. Going back to my house then to wake up into to think about what I lost. Anyway to make another lap race. And then you come back to the race. And you forgot what you did. And this kind of since we talk, but they never talk about him the curve because. Youtube. On both Cam. Tell me Trie simulator. They know how to get to close. Do you think? It was such a natural drive yourself. Jesus think the current guys coming through almost have too much information on those percent. None of it is is insurance. If now is taken just dilly, dilly dally m plus with purely, you know, now, you need to work in the window. So you need to see the go out of the box to. Warm lab. One push one slow one end this finish weekends over then race. That's. Not. The best way to learn. Especially nowadays. They want to driver a nineteen years old already running from one to young I stopped when I was eighteen and one I stopped in Formula one I was twenty four I think twenty four to, you know, you're not old and you're a bit more mature your understand more scenes. You're the re aradio. Art Balkan by girl, and you are your key. But when you're you're you're artist balking by girl, and they are on the middle of a two championship. Through in the in. Gabby a one and a half million. You understand? Yeah. Yeah. It's been a wonderful. Thank you so much. Just what do you think your legacies and Formula one now, you know, I? I speak sometime with the young the young ones and the. Just to remember some. Some moment of my Racsa imacs, just happy. Which race in particular? I'm gonna ask you that. I is it Canada over that other races that give you a better field. Suco Suzanne ninety five I didn't finish. But through the race. Yeah. He loves his quarter wonderful set the best one of the best. Yeah. Thank you. Great to chat. Thank you. Well, I never Nelson PK helping Joel with his first Ferrari contract what about those negotiations with Williams ahead of the ninety one season. What many little gems throughout that chat? Not least the brilliant anecdote about carpooling with Gerhard Berger what a GIO they made. And let's spare a moment to think about what might have been. What would shown of chief had he driven for Williams for three seasons? How many races even championships mighty of one in an F fourteen or fifty thank you for being so open and honest, John it was great to catch up. Well, that's it for another week. But don't panic will be back in just seven days with another superstar from the world of Formula one. If you can't wait that long. That's always the back catalogue to work your way through where up to episode thirty eight now. So there's hours of one chat listening pleasure, including last week's guest. James Allison, thanks for your messages about the show with James as many of you commented. Here's a. Great interview and brilliant at his job, the message, I've pulled out this week isn't about the conversation with James specifically, it's about beyond the grid in general loving beyond the grid. Wish we had it when I was a kid. It's highly insightful. I find it the light full. I hope you never get rid. Thank you, drift division. Very touching and brilliantly poetic rule listeners as gifted with words and light Jeff division. Please keep your feedback coming. We love it. Use the hashtag one be on the grid, and you can tweet me at Tom clocks Ephron. But before we do that. Make sure you subscribe to be on the grid on your favorite podcast app. I really don't want to miss out. The only grade is produced by one in a sociation with the until next time. Keep it latte out.

Ferrari Frank Williams engineer John John Mike Michael Nelson Nelson John Alesi Joe Eddie Benetton Canada Gerhard Berger Allen John Montezemolo football Enzo Ferrari president John Todd France
F1 2019 Season Preview Podcast

Motor Sport Magazine Podcast

1:29:00 hr | 1 year ago

F1 2019 Season Preview Podcast

"Ladies and gents, very warm. Welcome to the heart of London money Simon Aaron on the features Edgewood, motorsport magazine is my great privilege evening to be hosting a Formula one preview evening. We're almost just the first time that it's on. Housekeeping. Mateus on the brain. Firstly? This is the first time I've done this said, thank you all for supporting it. This kind of thing couldn't happen without. I'd also like to thank our two partners headline, pardon the footman James insurance specialist. Classic car insurance for thirty five years and classic and sports finance. Thank you very much to them. I'm sure if you're familiar with the magazine, it'd be familiar with the gentleman to my right? But I'll introduce from any way over on the right not to ninety six world champion Damon Hill. Left grund Chan racing success in India Asia came over to Europe did well in formula three one GP two races. And then got into the one with a car that wasn't quite as quick as GP. Has has since raised in the world endurance championship. And if you look at YouTube, you'll find in hurtling around Gooden McLaren with a great deal of in Corrine. Not least longstanding friend of mine grown pre cues. Pope people sometimes sakes, you'll Mayhew's what does he actually know about driving cows? And the answer is that the the answer is if you look at the fun lists nineteen eighty Jim Russell will funnel there. Three of them. Stephan Beloff, quite handy. Kiki non Sila, wouldn't it. Third one. He's very modest about that. But he does understand the down driving racing count. From. Go down to the business of to about one more thing we do have. Thank you also tickets for the raffle. The proceeds are going to be split between two charities one is the halo project which provides support for children with learning difficult. Young people learning difficulties Dame is the patron and the other one is. Which provides educational opportunities for underprivileged children in India and Korean as a patron of that. So you'll your your support for that is very very welcome. Thank you, gentlemen. Twenty nineteen one. Before we start by way of a little bit of context. Louis. I'm good for six title looking in from the outside. The impression of is twelve and they seem to be getting better. Mark. I think he was not foster or anything that was quick Z when he came in. But. The new as applied himself is understanding of himself of how we can make things happen around within the team is become much better of the probably the last two or three years and also think that team environment once Meco retired and stop line them up. He just came into comfort zone. I mean, Nick, Nick, quite honest about that he said op -solutely used psychological warfare against him. He said because otherwise I would have to just rely on drive and he said he's phenomenal. So they use something. So disappeared on the God, Valter news, very different sort of character and doesn't operate that way. And I think that plays part as well. He says he says played its part in them reach different level because he's not constantly responding. Whatever congregate Nichols thrown into the drive briefing, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Is peak lost. I mean, it's thirty four. Damon your career models, but different from those Lewis was world champion to twenty three. You were starting out and Junie foam afford at twenty three model doesn't work anymore. My my model. I can. Yeah. I would I would not recommend my career anybody. I mean, it was it was off the rails. And then miraculously I ended up in one the right place at the right time with competitive car. So I hit the ground running. When I got that. And things went very quickly before I was retired. But. Lewis's I'm going to measure Lewis from this point onwards because for me. I would have got five by this. If I've been in when spent? So I think I think that's gonna be interesting to be watching whether or not he pulls this off. Looks from testing the Ferraris are gonna be a tough nut to crack them. They will ask. Shia. But this lost year Mercedes managed to win it. So. Good a hell of a carrot. Isn't it six world titles? Just puts you in a very that group. Just him in Makah, I'm knocking on the door equaling Michael's tally. Not forgetting Sebastian vessel. Very came to catch him up and get on five you mentioned testing. I know you watch and testing telly YouTube both the trucks. For Jimmy both crunch. Some numbers also have stories most of them suggesting the Ferrari did have an advantage. But from your calculated this Esme, it's how far ahead is at the moment. I look at some of the race runs because the problem of one lab simulation qualifying simulations. It's just been nonsense. Really? 'cause they're doing different times in different fuels also about when you started dig through the race runs. It's safe to say that to three off say of the moment. But there's one thing look at numbers because nowadays, it's not like in Damon Stein with way to call it and the engine and few wait. Now, they've got all the stuff with electrical, energy and deployment. They can change the lap time extents just based on the restaurant. So if we live f about I went out to watch trackside on three three eight days, I spent time wander around and I enjoy that. Because we go off all these races on the ill. And it's very rare that we actually see a car on track. Most of the time spent in the paddock watching it on a screen just like, well, if you home, so it's quite nice, actually, watch your car and try. Track. And. I love going testing every and I picked the same spots because you can see on you like and on question already looked up on it looked effortless. It looked like the drivers were able to drive it ninety percents. Still just deliver laugh time metronomic lap after lap way. Just easy. Those the old lab, you know, one class of going deep, and he's going to miss the line there college step out of line. But he could still pick throttle came back, and you go. Wow. That looks good looks easy to have. So I do think that they are slightly ahead. But you know, I think my mouth, and I think Ferrari had a quick Akal gibbon eleven eleven races. And you could say Rica three or four Mercedes certainly had a quick card, vases, nasty, yet Lewis won the championship with raises despair. Seven Ferrari, arguably lost it as much Lewis won. It. Lewis was brilliant. Now season David gets lows of abuse for being pro Lewis also on Twitter, but it's through the guys race. Not. But yes, I do think that oughta slightly ahead of the state. Three of you. How'd you think the dynamic Ferrari is going to work said how great previous when he's thrusting young teammate put alongside him in twenty fourteen on season last Jerry into bid to stabilize by the internal politics for? But I mean, how'd you think the extra five years maturity thinks Clairol I think there's negative positive and the negative is is this mission. Very quick. The positive is that it's going to be a much calmer environment times lust when said was absolutely a loaded team. Those a lot of friction in the team in the way it was being run. So, you know, you're operate and the outer edges of your ability to make its second decisions if you'll not in the frame of mind way, everything's taken care of you're not gonna make good decisions. You're not gonna be peak on a think Sperry difficult to decouple SEB's Ariza, lots of things very difficult to couples from the environment in which I think it's going to be a much much better environment. Token to some of the people in the states like night and day. It's already like nine days. Does that doesn't count for some of his Sebastian's kind of Russia bloods, the head moments FRANZ? Yeah. And I think if you if the guy that's main chums, which was. You know is prone to and keep the pressure off actually the rump. It onto this managed as quite a few. I mean, how can I it took forever? Get Kimmy out of the way, and eventually Kimmy to say, listen, just tell me what you want me to do. Yeah. But you get other. He was. But they wasted. You know, it was something like six or seven seconds. They wasted time drizzle. Coming down Louis was on will come tended to the guy that were about position. And then they sacked. Those certainly agreements management. I think just just pick up with Mark was saying, I think when you look at the race stones, unfortunately, SEB's calm. But Obama when he did two stints thirty one laps in Boston. But at the end of thirty one laps he was only point zero. I think it was only three tenths ahead of LeClair. Of thirty one abstained. So you don't have to say look easily is I I met him in two thousand fifteen known for awhile. I went to three days and I woke in the back of the truck with voting just finished free practice, and he wasn't particularly outstanding. The call was tricky and he was actually behind one of his teammates. But in the back of the truck all of the engineers, a whole was around this kid and the other two I just sort of standing there. Polishing the helmets and getting the kids ready and have your drink. What's going on and he'd managed to sort of pull this whole team around and had the stock all I think from very young age. I mean. I mean, clearly, that's that's given. But. Testing. And you know, what it's like if you're an old hand like Sebastian as even still here. You don't you don't show everything galled, if you can just keep level with the new guy be busting got to be, you know. And if he can't quite quite do that, then you know, you've kind of got more. And actually when you look at the stats nasty. One thing clearly willing to work on his qualify. If you look the twenty races. He was a driver who lined up his three sectors least on the grid. You're only three times last year and the guy lined up the most was Sebastian metal eleven out of twenty one all three, and I mean brilliant. I think those China qualify two thousand nine ten one other. The other show, and they said you go one lap of qualifying anyone buying into pole. I think when rookie especially if you're not in a race in call. You get quite a few free pasta. You can have a quiet weekend. Nobody really notices that relentless grind when the spotlight's on Niro tile contending dots. Where you experience will show not. So you can do. I'm just saying that he did have for all that. He was outstanding his best of exceptional. He did have quite a few. We have I think the other one. Watch out is how Ferrari now. Britt, technically and how they're able to pace because they had been who is a team principal and. Was taking both those out twenty four seven three six five jobs. Maderas soda now sitting over both, you know, obviously, they would have had to restructure technically not. But this is guy the one thing you can't fall Ferrario on on is that they deliver quick the updates the wrong to us back in season across the last two years they seventeen they would have needed septa perfect season last year. Certainly he could've won the championship. You can't fold that part of role. So I'm interested to see how that plays out. Now, if he's taking his off the technical side is the structure strong enough. Yeah. From what I understand. He's never been the ideas. Guy of the technical department is very solid engineer. His big skill understand is is managing a group of creative people creating the right environment. Yeah. Yeah. So he's more of Ross Brawn. So as long as the strength and depth in the structure of the organization, I think it'll be fine. So then just a question operationally khanate, smooth it out, and I do think big part of the if he'll perations lost. It was just the offline Byron a personal. But the personality the very different. I mean, I remember last year role flying back from Mexico on the plane, and I was chatting Cristiana. There's the syllabus was leaving town the liberty guys and all the and all walking down. Oh, the beep beep beep, and this this this. The electric buggies coming along and was military events city Runcie sort of waving Joel. And I actually behind him was been out to a walking with the with the other engineers, and he just shook his head and to me that was a really interesting moment to actually see the difference in the nowadays. And I think certainly from again people I spoke to the test. They do connect with with Matteo human levels. He's very much a person they can talk to and deal with issues, you know, want to one and less combative way. Onto Mercedes has it sort of through almost become a one car team almost. Bought us some quick times. But he also had some and it seemed as the newest stronger. Valerie, just faded away to a sort of a snow is similar Parton to seventy actually got some break. And then suddenly. Became of that Lewis was going to be the tile contender. I'm think in seventy and actually informed them. At spa, beer and support. Now did seem to knock on black not just psychologically, and it took them a furious. As before he wasn't up -solutely person by Louis, so think. When everything's going. Well for. Very quick super quick. On those occasions when the cause a little bit imbalanced and. Louis consum- bailed with striving to try and pull time out of that Khandu ills quite often find Veltri head 'cause he'll just goes with what he's but over a season. It's. It's not structured as one cotton. But overseas in just inevitable the level of performance Lewis bringing so becomes. Usually by the second half of the season. Do you think in terms of Mercedes talking chances? They're actually better with the setup got then there would be maybe bringing somebody far we like into the second. I think it's it's a nice safe position for Lewis's. He knows across the season. Typically as touched on this a low rip circuits saute back who plays it tends to be little bit fron limited grips, especially the first breaking entry phase of the corner. We saw Lewis struggle more even in twenty seventeen actually races Monaco is another one in Mexico. Louis in eighteen. Go God rid of some of those low weekends. But of course, the season. He's still ahead. Ultimately, yes, foundry should have won four races should have three for last season. His one eleven and the world championship commie easy for about. I mean. You better place. This Lewis is up again boundaries up against the best lawyer in generation Damon had sent unmanned sold. Still. Pretty. Kombi easy. How old is being in the best in film? I think is very pleased to be where he is. And he knows he's got a great opportunity. But you're right. Every driver thinks that the other driver is beatable, and when you come up against someone who's as good as Lewis Hamilton count beat them become a little bit baffling seen so many drivers come on stuck with teammates Democrate mce and people thought themselves to be. Fronting drivers. And then they just couldn't seem to become this guy. And it does it does crush eventually. That's the place to worry vow fee will become he's gotta make decision either. He. Rossborough knows used to say to people who are with with Michael just just settle for second place. Came out of everybody. A ton of money except that he was number two live, really happy life. What is what is was pretty miserable? The because he kept trying to Michael and he did do. Quite a good job case. All these guys all beats always believe all beatable. I would like to be in the team with teammate who was unbelievable because I think that would that would. That would make me feel anxious. I never found out how I would have matched up. I mean, he was pretty much in three races in with him. But within three the way I looked at. It was Gerhard sometimes was about ten three ten. Find do. Never. But. Also journey is what is very seems like try to say someone like vow got up. He's got to head rounds where he is the opportunity has to do to do better than he did do Austria because he he actually didn't shine. I don't think last year, and that's what we're looking for a little bit of a flash brilliant somewhere. Oh, come over his head. And that's the uncomfortable thing. He knows is time limited does something Brin. And I think that's a lot of people talk about stuff. What a great drive where he never did anything that made you think. Wow. And even if Magnusson or something like know. Up and down even grown. They're up and down drivers. But every now, and then they do something that was good. And you need need one of those moments. Two three four. Take the general fading is Mercedes Ferrari, whichever road of them to be still a step. Everyone else I read definitely closer to Mercedes. What was really encouraging was eight days. Boss alone. Room and you had for data. Put all of it. Several tried to. Another email. Homework. I tried to go through this update is baking role again. Please. Now across the aid as ghastly at a couple of shunts, which meant that. We didn't see them full racist. We didn't get to see them. Performance. But they didn't have any Honda issues on days that it also I don't think so. That tells you a story that clearly there in quite a good place reliable realize that they feel really the mood in the camp is much more buoyant small things they said when when the Sean changing stuff on the back end previously. They sort of go be told we need the table. If that one, and we get this bid of this sort of combine this to make. Make the power unit package for the next day. But as. When all that was just a new one of everything for them. Well, proper looks team now. Backing and I think. A bit of a softball for that team. I think really good race team. You know, if you take away the whole thing they're funded by a drinks company and all the rest of all the that's edgy side of it as a coal raced. If you look at the people Adrian Brodie Marshall John weekly proper races. And I think I think that that fantastic. It's the purest restatement terms of structures. It's like a big three. I think. I think you have to call team Mercedes car manufacturer who other in it for the qudos that comes with it. But I agree. I think rebel because I mean, the guy doesn't have to sponsor them. He loves racing. The spore. Telling red bull. Ineffectual industrialist, which is it's only the only interest is building competitive racing cows. They haven't built. Palace swans. Do you talk? Don't give. Just just. The cakes the cakes. Good though when you go team. Swans? But I get the impression red bull racing. Everybody is. Yes. The PR peration marketing drinks, the call business in the factory about billion. Thing. Do hundred one. Absolutely, definitely. Movable? He was. Identity was eight to one to win the championship. Go for it. I wouldn't rule them out being a contender at least for the season. Traditionally, of course, develop. Muscle. But the go onto probably motive element in it than the other two. The basic potentially combustible. Fiery kid coming in strapping? I don't know about that. I think I think this is put unity to build the team. I actually I actually think that if. If the first half of the season goes maxes way in that entertain battle. I can see Christine helmet making the call and saying. Whatever go next year. Maybe but I can see max is special. There's no question about is a once in a generation talent. He's one of those that comes on the first poll after you watch the for FOX chicane, chicane, whatever it is. Through. Crises crash. You did. Was on believable control. Confidence is sixteen his first year. Counter state are three extraordinary. He's just going to get better mocks is like, I example, we've seen of nature. Because he's the offspring of two racing. Ridiculous lived in racing environment. And not the outside world. He's the kid enrolled in the circus. It's like an experiment. We have crazy. I mean, the other thing is he's incredibly pre possessed. He knows his mind knows himself in a way that I've never I mean any when he came to seventeen I've never met seventeen year old as confident clear-headed as that. When he was criticised. There was criticism guy when someone came out and said that Nikki said that you maybe. Psychologists or something that he said quick, she said, oh, great. We can both go. Never been. Nikki I came into one go. He was that Vilna of how to go sprung pretty biting. And so don't mess with him. He's shops. The other thing that struck me was how physically strongly was. Come on, go cost three and you normally these sort of scoring teenagers could barely twenty five days. Shook his. Brute, but. Hours. He did in Goco the shift where you just. It is physically very very amount. I think you just sent him out there pounding around is the laugh. And he's just so strong. Go nothing else on his mind. Talked about terrorists. Was he said he goes over to the simulator? Bill spends all day on that flight home gets. Gets his own bedroom. And comparison to say how to simulate. Comparing the other thing one one of the rights lost somebody on the podium said. So you're going to politics knights. No, I'm going AB sitting for friends, and he's already got the point where he goes. Exhausting, and I know and I'm not just going to. I think they were to do races for me that stood out that. Is now reaching a level of maturity what he's ready to be a championship contender. Because early on the season. He was all over the show. But then that. Switch to Canada. I remember watching epi one of the UK and going to the first. Because you start to see green track the big. Who the drivers are already attacking the wall. I should be watch max here, but a shift. I think that we realize I can drive at ninety percent not shunned and I still beat Danny by three and get on the podium. I going to say this good. But later on I thought Singapore a couple of moments where he went down the street was seven along side on on. And I think the only version of max would have lost something. And instead he backed out of the fight said going on then I came to the pits. Then I came to the pitstop. I. Strategically squeeze about again been wheels. And done and Mexico where he had the engine braking in qualifying. But then standoff star and he pulled down calm down. But max it already made a pitstop on him. He made twenty five seconds on down to the same car. And you go pretty special, really. Yeah. To me was to that's, and then we got Brazil, and all hell broke loose. Yeah. I thought that was a new science. Just mentioned Daniel. I mean. Internet. So it's speculating drive going there wherever the Daniels run things to come completely face almost like world champion arrows. Surprising. Preferred to go to rent. You win the race. Some consolation. Nearly winning. Out of my hands. This was a decision that Daniel on the phone. I think. Would you can you see as just trying to get away from for step into the rebuild Bill to build a team around himself? There's going to be kind of little bit. But I think it was is not just logic. I think it was also emotion. His team. Mocks came along and took it off. So was element of that. But also asked the run. How big a part to play in the fallout from that. He said it did definitely played. It's because we were assigned in public will blame what I didn't feel was equal. Second move. And I think. Twenty nine year old in treated like naughty school kid for something hadn't done anyway, just been racing. Probably made them I need to get out to do something on because that was the first opportunity that hard ever to wear. It was in his where he went next because prior to that whole career would be in rebel from the night. Options and this time, and I think he just was partly at time of life decision because he's probably thinking even if the Honda comes good time. He made that decision that was a bit of a stretch on the might come good. I think he was thinking enough. It comes good. I've got my in nineteen that seems to be centered around. So maybe maybe time to move agree with everything Mark said as. Did in fact. Walk away from the battle in some ways. I think but Dr. I'd rather be number two in a number one midfield. I mean. So unless you have next. You'd still win the grand prix. And there could be to you better than your teammate. And then you become the championship contender. I don't know. A really difficult thing, isn't it? I mean, I don't know how many drivers, and you probably know. Would've walked have walked away from top three team. That has won the race in twenty twelve freely in its various names. So as in five years and. Out for them. I think I think. The golden rule. If you can be a call that can can win a race you need to be there. And if it's uncomfortable relationship, comfortable situation, you need to somehow tough it out. Because winning wonderful panacea. It'll happen you'll win a race. And. Things can change. I mean, look Theresa May. She's still. How about it? Still. This is why you should follow. It. David. Really? Actually, he tweeted. These motorsport fans, we're not talking about the other things. Junior career when every single level gets into the pope is still not the podium. How'd you think he's gonna stuck up? I think it's a great opportunity for them. Because. Ren of forty you. Bring in this from a top team alongside them who is expected to be the number one in that team laid rhino back to championship success. From Nico standpoint as well and trenchant team, they know him they respect each other very, well, if he beats Daniel his dock just goes up, and if he doesn't then. Was anyway, in some way, meant to be the number two. The thing has room changes helped probably going to help him because of that much again because Dr. I know. Agent about how and he just said he wouldn't put in Macau heavy, and it's it's a high. And so that it sounds unbelievable. But these small differences will result in increased laptop. But now he's got a benefit because they rules about. There's no question. Can so long to commend somebody. I mean, I think. The back of the day against prostes. Oh, wait included. It was actually. The fact that first of all that wasn't clear now, very different spol-. But into marginal gains, actually, the driver. Plus, see these two three kilos. Make a big difference. Must have been ten actually start enough the wet calculations. The monster ninety nine months off a second. He had to be half. Second fast. Do the same the same time as. As they had the same system. Because the body strength without power, Steven probably anytime. Yeah. I mean, somebody back to I think I think it's a big year for them. Junior was on everything. I remember in two thousand nine. And the only is only the second time in my junior career. Followed. Somebody me. What I thought. Good. Phase Lewis Hamilton brands hatch falling even qualifying after. The angles this car on the back those two quick corners GPS, okay? Confidence. I have three weekend. Come from. Conscious. Inflict this college. Incredible. I really right. How can I think the shine went off a little bit as India's any because he ended up behind Peres? And anytime those low hanging fruit has ended up with a podium nickel back. Shunt every time with a chance of odium and stuff. But is clearly a very quick driver. I'm one of the conditions age as you have to be able to tire pressure with Nikko sometimes. Guys, natural vim is kind of contain. So yeah, that was the difference. The difference in pace. It was the difference. How the managed the Estrada race? Not view is. The tires too much. I think. Don't know. How different is going to be the ties of change a little bit of change a little bit quite a few races last year where the was monitored to be monitored. Ought to be monitored heavily because the. I don't think that's a great thing. I would much prefer that you could push all the time from start to finish. Actually who was the past drive around on the best modern. Monge MLS is back and everyone is watching the best way to keep up with the twenty nine hundred season is download the free MLS today. It's your number one source your real time scores schedule's highlights. News and more. You can customize the app for your favorite club to get the news. You want in your feet craving game. Manage your tickets right in the and live your colors. Visit the apple or Google play store and search MLS soccer or visit MLS soccer dot com slash today. Download the app. I have to say, I think Damon you'll model. No winning any junior championship the tool, and then just just wanting that. On the champion brands. I'm. Still many wheels. As much talent. But yeah, so we appoint. Yeah. And too much to win. World championship. Why? Remembers them. Smarty? Tend to think possibly most effective lost here. In terms points per pound has how would you development model, basically get lower to Bill the Mika for our supply most of the base. It's team sniffy about that. How how how contested three years ago? How'd you how'd you assess is back in the day? People could go and buy a Lotus Damon's folly via loaded by. Hey, presto. Frankly leaves out team I buying a it wasn't it. Bravo. And then. Some of the things so yes, change the other. Ultimately, this argument about has nothing part of the DNA on imply anything being really. On that. I think ultimately gun Stein is being very smart in the way. He's seen a loophole regulations. Clear what they can do technical partnerships. I think he's being very opportunistic. And he's been smart, and he went to the Ferrari and Delara, and and you know, within two years they were able to produce the fastest on the day. She was in the driver's shunted. A lot on lap one that, but when you look at the average is the fastest. And an intesting from what I saw I put money on them being the full faucets next weekend. So. What is deal because I don't quite understand. They get they get help us the Ferrari Wintel the car is built by the Laura. Model is developed in Ferrari win with dot com. From for ARA not on for our own program, then complete the car on the handed over to the lower to build those guys go back to work. The power train as well. They get all the give. Raises racing with Mercedes. Yeah. But they, you know, they pushed the envelope. But it's not it's. Legal don't have to design the. Done. Have to build it. They can operate on the upper is a race team. So two hundred twenty twenty the next thing. That if you had that as a model basically copying later on following the leader you buy from from the best never win. Then we're going to beat Ferrari but to come Simon question about pound for pound by spending less money than MacLeod Notre Williams arena. Finishing head. So. If you if you don't get the business model for what you're spending what you get back in the price money on. Yeah. It's a mole viable business model, really. Which really kind of his people Williams and McLaren there. They all. Carrying a massive burden on. Doing something that they're looking for the regulation for twenty twenty one onwards. Looking just bring in. A little bit from the house model felt a bit too extreme. I was in a parallel universe somewhere. Reverend Crozier and Kevin magnet fighters. Both. I mean. Another takes. Kevin Kevin Kevin. Somebody looking for a fight. And soon as practiced off wants to. Very very tough and bottles. I mean, you wouldn't want to go wheel will just by the way think about it. But I don't think is quickest Ramon peak is brilliantly past those key. Those are these people just don't get. Ramone, you're gonna get the idiot. The next time. But he's had this is going to spin spoke psychologist. Reynaud days. I think it's a new. Or the window. He seemed to be more consistent last. Shia towards the end of the top Riccardi was. Actively looking money. But I think the school after record was eight one. But by the end of the season gone into. Faye that both in the both having a good week Enron easily. Gif very beautiful as well. House today. Roundedness? He tweeted a picture of his wife. With close on everything. Good. Anyway, question the hell is going on Williams. It's the technical technical people. Get three cone flakes. It's changing all the time. The third constructor's world championship in twenty fifteen. Last now. Rapid descent would never have been Frank Williams and Patrick heads day. What's happened? It's shambles on it is a management problem. Stop that. Ultimately. I think refusal to accept the no longer top team in the sense that they are still structured like top team in terms of the engineer in facilities hop. So. Hop so running massively overstuffed for the level of success that they can have. So. Because of the refusal to accept thing the engineering people maybe have been given. Choice on decisions should have been made. Very very tough decision because he's people's livelihoods, and it's very proud. Engineering send a team. That's why say it is a management problem probably fairly. Being accessible wanted by. When. When the regulations changed. It brought out a weakness that haven't been identified previously which had been covered up in terms of how the collar. Discovered. How much they didn't know. Stuff being going on the hadn't realized wasn't so important for the old regulations. They're in a similar place. Now. Robert saying the cause actually is about as last is in terms of how drives and not it is sort of. Drive it to the balance of the call. But it just trust their downfall. And the GOP got between in Basel between where they were. Was probably big bigger than the gut between. Collar and the fastest. That's how far off the. He goes. Zebra strong relationship with Williams heritage driver travel, museum, demonstrations and stuff. Desperately was. I mean, it is really sad. And I think it's one for me, I grew up in an era where it was Williams, Ferrari McLeod, and they were your top three. The first ever raised broacasts in India. Life was a ninety three's Spanish pre which he was in. And to me they were dominant teams my heaters. Thinking about growth. Remember nineteen Ninety-three. Second broke down. The. It is. And I think it's important for MacLeod. And and Williams to be successful. They found bases around the world. History. So yeah, it is what the answer is what the solution is. I think it's multi-layered. I think what what is really upsetting about the current situation. Could've. It's it's you can say this coming. You could have seen it coming. They've gone off the rails, they refuse to acknowledge that the world has moved on. And they don't know what to do about it. They've they've got a. What has to be? Now, they have to look at their management and say, okay. What are we not seeing? What are we getting getting something we missing a bit of the picture and? And I think a lot of us have looked into. Going in. You're taking the wrong path. And it's been going that way for years, and I think that year of the year, I don't know how they're going to carry on with with compete. It's a real shame kind of reach. Right now to potentially fantastic stories. I mean, George Russell's promising young British jobs had a very long world into three lost. To my mind thought they are standing former after. And Robert I mean, he was a genius career. The accident long layoff, one of the romantic and uplifting comebacks stories of all time in Formula one, and it's all going to be kind of lust. Shutters. Also, don't arounds. Achievable in shot space of time. If it's if it's done in the right way with a level of. Strong top management. I look at Salva. They went from the con- twenty sixteen is big, bulky, overweight. Absolutely dead. Last. Fred Vesey has gone into gone contract. We signed up ready for we we can't cope with that. We that. We can't do that. What can we do and resilience? They genuinely had the fold qualified seventh and eighth. They now Kimmy. Talked to who I think Ferrari to the right decision to replace him. But equally I think salvo benefit hugely from guy who's finished on podiums position and one race. Great deal of top level. Not possible time. But it's it's often the top. Say fast as racers. He's come up through the hole racing. He understands what we'll make makes a team work hard as well. In the. In the. Takes no prisoners for years. He's a tough cookie. But that's what you need in one. That's williams. Frank patchy races. In Saudi they got old and they've moved on stuff needs needs. Someone back. I think Zac Brown is a bit of a rice. Well, he's put a pack into Saint. Under sail who they've hind from. Weber talks very highly of him from the days. They had a Porsche. So. Could feel. Subject DC McLaren turning the corner. Heading back in the clear is going to be running from the show, but you say them moving back in the right direction. Wait and see testing Ron confused a little bit. You know, there's good headlines. But when he saw through you kind of there in the battle. I I think the back end of last year they sort of given up on. All races where they will behind. With the genius finan. They're going to be missing Alonzo on Sunday in particular, that's three tenths, isn't it. Critic on Sunday and great team radio entertainment. So yeah, I think mclamb will miss miss that relentless push the Gulf on Sunday. I think we'll be back to respectability. Field solid performances. Foundation. Understated coming in from Basel owner think on you've got new technical director James were expect from Bahrain onwards. So they are the new people take full. And so that really there in a holding pop just stop them getting cycle Williams in for a while. Quite a look at it. From the outside of the structure is still quite top heavy. You know, you look at look at right? Mercedes. Toto sitting then James Allison heading the technical side. Basically one blow. Nikki, unfortunately on the moment, but he's more consultant same helmet Christian. Then Adrian his technical McLeod new Zach Geel Jonathan Neil now under seal. Sort of full four people at the top. And so it's a very different structure. It's always being Macara. No successful. Big structures metrics managements. I don't think that's going to thing is probably going to be a bit more. Concentrate on getting into America and all that. And I think it'll be job to run it from day to day running. Science is kind of draw. We're covering each great flush promise from time to time red bull's data and Bill. Is not Adam thank is driver. Stature, obviously. But he's he's very quick driver. Capable of. Very very impressive performances thing for team level. There are. They were over in doubt last. Couldn't reasonably expected to have somebody who's going along. So it was a bonus. They finished six championship with. When was that? Time Clarin didn't have a world champion team. Didn't. Long. Was because it was time Montoya Kimi suppose because one. One future a future world champion. Doesn't work. So then you got Kimmy Kimmy. Well, then if you don't then actually, I suppose Lewis. Yeah. Louis say eight. So. Yeah. A decade. Dr Who wouldn't become world champion. Okay. But they were. Maybe tonight. Good. Call signs our world champion. So the pow they have the inference they have is drivers in the team's not quite as great. Arguments going to be destroyed if London Windsor world Trump. Yes. It's time. You're going to be a berth for now. Itchy. Completely the introduction by not mentioning having. Gabbling about now having it'll be your to a sensible questions. That that's going to become even three or four minutes. We've thought forbid more. I. L from Kimmy still belong house. Think I gave my opinion deserves to pay. Benefit, and he's got a whole new bounce step. I saw raided the test in Barcelona. He said he's being says. Puts his wife and kids in the car factory from his house. It's only down the road. And he's wanted on the factory. Suddenly discovered this whole new Mojo motivation Jeevan was telling me as well is believable. How how much he's pushing the team and he's really being proactive trying to drive the team forward. I think that all bit surprise early. Is relishing this role. They locate him as a clear number one. And he's relishing it. Come down a little bit from the level where he was will try. Level of Ferrari could only use them as a support drive. So not sense. It was time but still capable of great performances, and we saw that last few times. For team of ALPHA's level pushing to go further from tastic and east. Currency's is reinvigorated needs just happy enjoying himself from the very first lap of testing ended up in the gravel spent. But it was just laughing about the team. Everybody was just just. Just a deed said through on the radio turn to a bit slippery. An any any said turn turn for nearly went off. And then he said turn off. I don't think I don't think we will ever see that. They have is stating came of two thousand three four five. Very I genuinely think he was a foster over one lap. It was unbelievable that time he won that race in Austin. He genuinely with decision. I think. They came. There was phase when Lewis was catchy Bill, but actually he held Lewis back. He made you lewiston gain four five seconds. David really thought about that race the actually over. The team won that race. And I thought that shows that on his day still magic. Question for me, just a couple of quick points. We haven't mentioned force Canada racing. Ornate. It's drives. Previously sacked replace the driver. Yes. Comes comeback. Two months say my drawing. Financial stability presumably for racing point. And how. How? Good thing has been looking just couple of Quds. Untouched. Intesting rookie. Quick consistent it all in stride up remarkable. Is a can be devastatingly bust. He's got a lot of talent. He just collapsed onto the the mental pressure of being thrust. Red bull rope on that didn't really recover when he went are also second chance. Go to in them. But whether he can get access to it. I really right flies under the radar a little bit. He was on pole position at my child. Ecomog of lost. And then I black flag. Good. Jodi, take. From time came Noda's, and he was saying that I it was all headlights green. And I realize you've got to ask you to say what you want to complain you say this work for me could I have a different shape and could I have this? You go to a little bit demanding without being a pain in the us. And I think. He's still playing the playing, but he balance he's still a bit too. Nice to it's just all of it. New and he's a big green. I think it'll it'll shake out and the team team. Really? He was very impressive in the long run and testing. He did this. Ways. It was everyone's having sort of three seconds of tired egg. And he did his best lap. Two laps to go on a twenty laps. Slowly, good pay. So you sort of look at it and go, okay. Got something. And this evening. A couple of roving monks on could you please raise a question. On. I'd like to ask the panel circuits if I may and if you had the opportunity to scratch any venue from the calendar, which race would be and if you'd like to offer up turn I'd be very interested to her that too. Track. It's just never produces good racing. It's a dull one stop. The one Louis coming out there. I think not is not great. Which one would you put back into logos? Into logos. I don't know about overtaking Long Beach, though, I don't care. Yeah. For me. I wouldn't want to lose boscell because great venue, but don't. Dahlie, interacts we to create very boring racing because of the long Konno's and the reliance on downfalls to everyone spreads out. So and they ruined it by taking out that law school. And I know it's dangerous, but it was good. Supposed to be dangerous, isn't it? There is a risk. There is risk has. Question. Probably should reinstate the Indian. Question regarding the the the days of testing. The. The Mercedes certainly on the exterior changed greatly. I think in week two from one thing that I read about thousand extra parts being put on the com-, which we're obviously unable to be developed in such a short time in Washington, washing front, wings, etc. Do you think that shows a uncertainty in design of car is it that they are very about doing trying different things and not to worry about the lap times? At this point. It was preplanned thing. So what they had a launch spec car? What was originally going to be a Melbourne upgrade? And so everything's determined by way, you are up in the window on the decided that they launched car on the test car would be wherever they were in the tunnel. By the end of November would build on the. Continue work in winter for further few weeks. Give them good big big performance. Upgrade that was. They finished ahead of schedule. So instead of Debbie Melville in the second week of testing late times on these things are so long everyone to be made over the weekend. The first first week call was just spec on the second week was pretty much the maleable. Okay. Some more. Question. The increasing importance of simulators. Now dies is a couple of questions. One is how much they use to having hours by tonight on a simulator and do more more than one driver to do that stuff. And do you see people from the gaming industry kids, particularly skillful got ratio? Two thousand the world, and they get him thirteenth in the world only stuff and the kids can see that. Because doing the same lapse that cetera carving fascist seconds off shooting transferable skill to get people into account that stuff. Is come on hell of a lot mcadam of the first ones to invest in it in the early two thousands. I remember two thousand seven when I was on the program. Christine called me and said I want to the end of the. You go to come do some days in the sim, and it was the very same that building on the sort of tripod. The capsule, and I go to. Got so ill. I couldn't do it. Did. Getting dizzy motion sickness. Was really struggling three or four laps. I very sheep three to walk back up Christians office and go. Sorry. I'm not the same thing. Because. Could I still have my test? So the laughing confused other expecting, and he said you had. And he said you had to remark through open lousy, whatever. Throw up. Boy was the only one who could could do days. Nowadays running race began. They overnight. They've got multiple afford drivers voting Hartley now doing it. Anthony Davidson's a lot of Mercedes amongst other people's. They use a great engineering lucky. I I've been in various coding new of the new Macau rebel. And I always saw that great engineering to you know, you could do you could point two five percent of waitress bution shift in the car, and you can feel time difference. You could change the engine breaking the top by one click on the steering wheel. And you feel difference quite good for optimization and stuff as a driver on the track. I saved you the first five laps F B one. Maybe. Much beyond that. Because ultimately, there's no fear factor. I think so that's fair will feel. Failed the feel of over still they still haven't fully replicate, for example. Stay in the cloud. A lot of others. Now have the on the helmet. I would have to be the test dummy for like. We're just going to connect to deal head testing. But. But it does work you do feel. I was very Iran. The GD academy programme in India actually, Nissan's program, you know, about the Gable racer thing to kids. Playing the video game. And then went all the way to the mall and. And. The one the Welsh kit. They found yon mound of is is really good. He's now motor racing driver than a game. But when you look at his performances and super formula in Japan, super GD and stuff he's right up there. He was Jensen was at some races. So I think that is apart and is family saved hundreds of thousand pounds of carting. Buying PlayStation steering said for a couple of grand. It's still does which I wouldn't spend on gaming. It's still infinitely cheaper than two hundred fifty thousand of European counting. So I think there is an argument for for the game address a model, especially if the games are getting more realistic simulators getting list, but I still think they need to have an element of GT academy. One of things was. Before they did any high profile races. Like the by twenty four and stuff that was publicized. These kids had to go off. And they racing at Snetterton club racing events Cadwell power and all these sort of under the radar club events that only Simon out and goes to. But just to give real live racing experience. So you definitely need because otherwise they don't have the respect. Crashing video gaming all controlled Alito. Whatever they quivalent. Yeah. Quite positive about the situation of Bob counter. Now. Whereby Leclerc has quite positive first half of the season. And guess the team around him. Unsettles? And then you go untested and new team. Principal is going to have to control that dynamic for the rest of the season. How'd you feel about that? It's not possible. Really? There is you know, everything's do. Potential to go wrong as well as right? I don't think that will play out. Six to one championship. Wow. Down to three now. Anyway. Okay. Thanks, thousands writes coming up very soon. Yeah. So what's the best of the first nine nine seven wherever best. Can I? Really? My personal opinion. A few for sheer drama two thousand eight Brazil, tampers clincher ninety seven lots of drama one two thousand five Japan was mega. Kamien coming through. Pick one of those will be one about nineteen fifty five. But we didn't we? Two thousand and five as you mentioned. Just a sensational. Three greatest drivers will come from the buck to the front guy leading seemed to be on the way. Long. So going around the outside of Mike one thirty eight miles wheel on the grass. Poss fizzy past. Second. Yeah. Doing the possible. Probably the best I've ever witnessed. I don't know still front Seventy-nine feeling of new Butler for five years gone six. The ones I think Japan two thousand four. Everything just struck. If I could pick one from history to attended it'd be nine hundred thirty. Jay. German grow before the championship grown to just seven year old. Lowery was. Okay. Questions about the done changes this season to improve of tikey stance. In a precedent view. Lewis was did he think it was kind of big Tychy, and he actually came back with response. You didn't understand? That's why the regulations had changed. Do you think that was a genuine response really does? Just drive wheels off the blood. Is it? He doesn't think it's going to make any difference. I don't think it's going to make. Louis thoughts were if I'm honest. I didn't I didn't hear what he said. I didn't see that interview. But I think. It's a stopgap, isn't it? Twenty twenty one is the big change trying to get data collection for where they want to go with twenty twenty one. I don't think there's been a lot of lot of mole hype about how this could potentially make a difference. Then then the difference will actually pay when we can't judge it on Melbourne because terrible taking anyway here we go to judge on the first four races. But I. We've seen. I don't think that's going to be the way somebody that's on. Research group for these strangers nineteen hundred described it was he didn't think it would make a great deal of difference. How do we just left? It would have been a lot worse. So it's sort of level of difference. But. Crew inside it's going into direction. The Twenty-one rags will be much more extreme fifteen million teams thing. Like, you say it's probably to collect data the feed into the process for twenty twenty one. Talking to the other night. He's very excited said they have at the moment. Much better than what we have right now. How do you one? The model for the twenty twenty one call when when processing it and see if Donald. He said it looks. Just to change back to the drivers. If you look at the fifties sixties seventies. Dr. That'd be that'd be in sports. I mean being one of the Goodwood revival calls Phil rubble. Hillgrove or whatever. I wonder whether the sport it self whether the drivers themselves lost something result of this over specialize. I think is really good two different things. I I love going to good to drive all these all these different cars. One year all Austin, eight thirty five. This utterly terrifying. Canam cloud on the. But you learn something, and I think you grow and develop as driver those the year, I was. I was doing. And family jumping in between the two, and it was really interesting because actually some of the stuff that you learn on on driving efficiently informally met my field because that was better than my teammates. You know, this stuff that you learn from and I've just been reading David spoke about the Jim Clark book, which is fantastic poker. Inside. This is just mad the stuff they used to drive every single week. I think you do develop drive of the quality of the equipment was much more basic. I think if young drivers coming up now they drive cars highly developed how did anything wrong with them? So they're talking about very nuanced things when they're letting to style, and I'm not sure they get outside of the envelope marks. You know, that's the thing. I drive of footwork, which was pulling piece of it was dangerous, quite frankly, and I had to drive the wheels of it to get it anywhere. And you find out what you can do when you when you go to. And I think that is probably quite rare. These days for drivers to on the former one to get to drive. Technically knows a piece of crap. But I think it's it's an interesting point. I think it's a shame that they don't get to different types as well. Go nameless. But for example, heritage. Nine hundred ninety Williams six nine. Good one year the festival and. Those young young either that they were looking out for the future after all the time when they. Let them do a little bit of promo. I would say we get with all the mounting and things. And he basically refused to drive Emmanuel he says, I just don't enjoy drive gearbox. So I don't I don't think I could do it. And I don't want to do it. Just blew me away. Then I realize he's actually never raised manual. Lando. I guess. Stroz during drive coach being coached already formula. One driver this time the coach had to spend the first morning of the session teach them how to heal because he'd never how to do that. Because he. That's just what you do. But that's the thing that can I'm going like that. But I think is so it gets your brain working. I think also to come to the point it pulls. Gentlemen. Thank you very much. Brought a photograph taking. Stepfather? Interest Damon and wonder if we could have a bit of style, randomness, please. Would you mind signing day? Okay. Run them style random style. Well. Say it was ninety nine. Fly minana. Yellow outfit in my guys is Dr Freddie jeweled, and that was interesting. The one where there's a really good one in your book. If you have a really good one about him when you had to be speeding. I'll tell you. I'll tell you a story about I was thinking about when you talk about testing. And it was that the the idea that. Album was with was confident that he could actually tell the engineers what he wanted from. The colony was road by excited about is one day be well, my my first run Williams, I had run civil stern and Frank was patch. It was very very excited. I prop running in the new Williams. FW fourteen. I think new EKO and out. I went to the few came in patchy stuck microphone didn't need it. Mike financially. Plus, anyway, what do you think? Tastic? I don't even we're looking for bit mall. Supposed to criticize the car, and I was thinking feel comfortable about criticizing. But as a new driver. Yeah, it was. Doesn't come easily to stop being nit picking. Okay. Picture. That's nothing to do with. Ryan. We own a pretty much out of time. So question. Sure question. Probably Marston is article today Ferrari heritage, yes. Or no. To get hired on high. Very controversial. We we're not getting involved about discussion tool. Going to fix the problem. That's the point. Have. Dental to read it is defiant difference of you blindfolded. I don't know. Okay. Story. Did you want to substitute since we ducked that question? We're all afraid to tell him that gentleman. Once again, thank you so much for participating tonight. Thank you again to James cusick insurance business thirty five years and also to finance helping as possible we have to do Russell. Somebody needs to bring the ruffle tickets down to the stage. The person for this going to be split between the project and. Dame's picking the winner picking just one. Winner is. Names on the back in the back number two, Victoria. Victoria has been seldom. On up. Craig chapman. Chris stockdale? Legend. Every so much to. Becoming please warm hand panel. Who sent in Christian questions Twitter? We appreciate it. But we just had so many questions we run out to under boom. Thanks to the auditorium that auditory brilliant. Thank you.

Lewis Mercedes Ferrari Louis consum India Kimmy Kimmy Damon Mark Mexico David Simon Aaron Mercedes Sebastian Damon Stein Frank Williams Michael engineer YouTube
TechStuff In Front of a Green Screen

TechStuff

52:28 min | 6 months ago

TechStuff In Front of a Green Screen

"Today's episode is sponsored by serve pro as America begins to reopen. We have a new sense of what it means to feel. Safe in the spaces where we gather serve pro is committed to bringing a higher standard clean to those places with certified serve pro cleaned. If you see the certified, serve pro cleaned sticker on the front door of businesses in your community, you'll know nation's number. One choice in cleanup and restoration was there. Call one eight, hundred serve pro or visit serve pro dot com. That's S.. S., E.. R. V. P. R. O.. Dot Com franchises are independently owned and operated capital. One knows life doesn't alert you about your credit card. That's why we created iino the capital, one assistant that looks out for surprise credit card charges like over tipping duplicate charges or potential fraud, then sends an alert to your phone and helps if you need to fix them another way, capital one is watching out for your money when you're not capital one. What's in your? Wallet see capital. One DOT COM for details. Welcome to textile production from iheartradio. Pay there in welcome to you. Stuff I am your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer at Iheartradio and I love all things tack and today's topic goes by many names like Chroma key or blue screen or green screen. The inventor of this technology developed it for film, and that Pun was unintentional. You know developed for film, but I'm going to run with it today. We use this technology and film. Film and television on twitch streams and zoom com mean all over the place. And in the old days you weren't likely to encounter a green screen unless you were inside a movie studio like inside a sound stage, but today there are a lot of folks who have a green screen just stashed in their Home Office so today I wanNA cover this technology. It's history and development and how it works. Now before I. Get into the history. Which as I'm sure? Most of you know is my modus operandi die. Let's give a quick overview of what this technology actually does. So basically it's a system that allows a creator to insert images typically a background. That's your standard use of this and you do it into a shot. That otherwise isn't in that location, so you could be a static image or the new image might be in motion itself, so it might be video or film. This technology allows creators shooting locations. They might otherwise have trouble getting to like the bottom of the ocean or outer space or In my college dorm room because I was Tori for locking myself out. So when you do it well, it really enhances a scene, but when done poorly, it's incredibly distracting, because it's so obvious that the people or whatever that are in the foreground of the shot aren't actually in whatever the environment is, but. That's the basic idea is to create a composite a combination of multiple shots into a single new shot so that the components run those two separate shots are combined as if they're in the same place at the same time. That's the basic idea now. Let's get to the history. You know the part that everyone really came here for, but before we even get into the development of it, we need to think about the early days of film and talk about what film really is because that's going. Going to help us understand the evolution of the art form that made Chroma key even possibility when I say film. In this case, I'm specifically referencing images shot on a long strip aplastic upon which there is a coding of light sensitive chemicals. Actually there are several layers of light sensitive particles in that then strip of film now with modern film, you might be talking about twenty or more layers on that thin little piece of plastic. These layers include binding agents. You know essentially gelatin and grains of. Of Silver Halide crystals which react to the light, these are those photosensitive chemicals, and also some special molecules that bind with silver halide crystals, so that they transfer energy from specific wavelengths of light, which we perceive as different colors win light hits. The silver halide crystals coding this plastic. There is a chemical reaction, and you can think of it as a chemical record of that instant of time. Whatever light hit. The film is recorded. They're on this piece of plastic, so if you position the lenses so. So that you can direct specific light to that film. You can take a photograph. You must use some form of shudder to block out the light until you're ready to take your image. Then you open the shutter. This exposes that piece of film to the light. That's being reflected off of whatever it is. You're photographing. Remember when we see things. We're seeing light bouncing off of that and the color of the stuff we see is dependent upon which frequencies of light bounce off of that thing. So then the shutter closes on your camera and you've got your coal record and the shutter is necessary because as I said these chemicals react to light. If you just had this stuff exposed to light all the time, it would have already reacted. You would not be able to use it to take a photograph of anything if you want to learn more about this process, which is fascinating, but really the process of photography is far enough out of the scope of this episode. That I don't want to go into it much further I. DO recommend new GO-TO. HOW STUFF WORKS DOT COM? That's my old employer. I don't technically work for how stuff works anymore, but you can to that website and you look at the Article Hal photographic film works was written by Chuck Woodworth, and it's a great example of the how stuff works style, and it goes into the chemistry and physics of the photographic process, but we'll skip over the rest of that for the purposes of this episode so now the. The film on the camera has a latent image on it, and it represents the moment in time. The shutter allowed light to pass from the lens to hit the film, but in a film camera a Cinema Camera. You're talking about a series of latent images. Motors pull this strip of film at a steady speed through the frame of the camera where the shutter opens and closes. Closes at a regular frequency, and the standard speed of capturing images is twenty four frames per second, so a film camera is capturing twenty four photographs every the latent images need some processing in order to create something that can be fed through a film projector. The development process creates a negative image of the chemical record, and that means that the darkest areas of the image represent. Represent the spots where the film received the most light. That's the opposite of what you would expect. Anything that would be dark in a photograph will be light on a negative and vice versa. This negative has to be transferred onto another roll of film to create a positive image in the process that I'm also not gonNA cover because we need some time for actual topic, right? So when we watch film, we have the perception that what we're viewing are moving objects up on a screen, but that is an illusion. What we're really seeing. What true film is that? It's a series of photographs. The projector is playing those photographs at the same speed that the film camera used to make them twenty four frames per second. Usually I mean. If you wanted to play stuff in slow motion than you would shoot a film, a much higher frame rate like forty eight frames per second, but you would play it back at the standard twenty four frames per second, and that would give you the slow motion effect and back in the old days cameras were hand cranked, so you would get kind of twenty four frames per second, but this would result in sort of that herky-jerky movement. We associate with old movies. That was hand cranked cinematography. Cinematography and sometimes people would turn the crank a little faster or a little slower than others, so you don't really have a consistent experience there because the playback speed especially if you're playing in modern projector is going to be standard, even if the recording speed wasn't but never mind all that. If you were to stop, the projectors reels at any given moment in the playback of film, you would see a still image. You would advance the real by one frame and you would see the next. The next photograph in that series, and you would likely be able to pick out how things are slightly different from the first frame. You looked at and the next frame, and this is the same principle that's behind animation. If you've ever taken a pad of sticky notes, and you drawn little figures on page after page after page that when you flip the pages. Pages, you get a simple little cartoon, then you've engaged in the same art form as great cinematographers, and then maybe your work was even better than theirs. I'm not one to judge now. Why would I go to the trouble to cover the basics film? It's because the very nature of film inspired certain people to experiment with it to try stuff that would be. Be Impossible to replicate in a real world setting, or at least it would be really difficult. Film wasn't a substitution for theater in theater. You can create a few interesting effects. Generally, your options are limited to things like lighting tricks, maybe some creative sets or costumes, maybe an even a stage, illusion or two, and perhaps some sound design, but with film there were. Were other possibilities and one fellow who recognize those possibilities was the French filmmaker Andalusian Est George Malay he was born in powrie Paris in eighteen, sixty one let that sink in for a moment. This man was born while the civil war was going on in the United States he became interested in stagecraft at magic and by eighteen ninety S. he was A. A successful stage magician in eighteen, ninety five. He saw an early film exhibition made by the Lumiere brothers any became entranced by this new medium. His experience in allusions encouraged him to find ways to experiment with film to achieve new effects stuff. That wouldn't be possible to do. In the real world. He was a special effects and film. Pioneer established methods to shoot. Shoot slow motion. Stop motion animation to do dissolves and tricks like super imposition and double exposure around eighteen, ninety eight male ea had a really cool idea. He wanted to create a truly bizarre special effect in which an actor would appear to remove his own head on screen. But how would he accomplish this? While the secret was in shooting multiple exposures of the? The same real film, Typically Expos Film Delight. You want to avoid doing that again because you will interfere with that chemical record knew if you were to ever take photographs with a film camera. And then someone were to open up the back of the camera and expose the the film regular light. You could potentially ruin shots that were already made plus ruin. Ruin the film for the next couple of shots. It's not something that you typically want to do. More light will cause further reactions chemical reactions on the actual plastic film. Your shot gets ruined. If you've ever used the cameras that don't quite line up the film properly at the very beginning the very end, you might even notice that a couple of photos. On those sections of the the film role have two sets of images superimposed on top of one another. And that's because that little section of film was exposed more than once me did this on purpose he would set up a shot, and he would use a lens that had some of the Lens blacked out, so that light could not pass through that part of the Lens, and we referred to this as a matte. M. A. T. t. e. and you can. Can think of it like a mask for the Lens, and that would mean a section of each frame corresponding to that part of the Matt would remain unexposed to light. He would shoot these seen as rehearsed afterward, he would rewind the exposed film in the camera. beat it right back in as if he was going to shoot something all for the first time. And he then replace this Matt with a new one and the new Matt would block out everything except the section that previously was unexposed, so in other words, the part that was black would now be clear, and the rest of the Lens that was previously unblocked would be blacked, so you replace one Matt with a different one. So he would then be able to film. Something totally new into the same role of film. In this time, the camera would pick up a new scene by changing things between one section the other he could create weird effects like the head removal trick. It would appear as though all of this was shot at the same time on the same role of film, but in fact through careful control where the light would go me would use. Use the same film twice or more to produce cool results, and if you want to see an example of what I'm talking about, and I highly recommend you check this out because it is amazing, even today go to youtube and do a search for the short film. Four heads are better than one the creativity of this film, which by the way lasts less than a minute is still astonishing to say. His experimental work was influential. would be a gross understatement. Other filmmakers inspired by the work of male EA, tried new techniques that built upon the foundation he established for example, filmmaker and Documentarian Norman. Dawn wanted to shoot films at historic buildings around California, but several of those buildings had been damaged, or even partly destroyed. Other historic buildings had modern stuff like light poles in front of them. He didn't want that to be in the shot, so he wanted to show the buildings as they had appeared in their original. Original form before the decay before modern technology had advanced into the area, so he came up with a really clever idea. Dawn placed a pane of glass between the camera and the scene. He wanted to shoot an on that pane of glass. He had paintings to enhance the scene. If a building's roof had caved in, he would frame up the shot and then have an artist paint a roof on the glass, so that when viewed through the camera, the painting and the building behind. Behind it with lineup and the building would to be whole again, or he might want to cover up stuff like those telephone poles. He would have an artist paint trees on the glass. So from the cameras perspective, the polls were hidden. His process also involved double exposures. This was an example of a matte painting, and he would claim credit for inventing this and he and applied for a patent on it, but subsequent lawsuits establishment, other filmmakers were using similar approaches and the patent office. Office ultimately denied the claim, but matte paintings would become an important part of filmmaking from that point forward one disadvantage to these early foam effects was they required the camera to remain stationary the whole process. You couldn't move the camera at all or else. You're shots wouldn't lineup so you wind the camera to remain in one place through all of these different exposures? Another problem was that no action could cross the Matt Line because we get cut off as it moved beyond that. At least from the audience's perspective line now's move on up to nineteen eighteen when a guy named Frank Williams created the Williams process which. Honestly seems pretty convenient to me. The Williams process allowed for more movement involved shooting actors against a solid background, such as a black or blue curtain on very high contrast film, the process sometimes required multiple transfers onto new film. Until you arrived at a black silhouette against a pure white background, the negative image of what you're shooting before and this was called a holdout. Matt the way these transfers typically would work that you put one strip of shot developed film into a camera. So you've already shot on it, but you're putting it through the camera again. And you would put a second strip of film that is uncharted unprocessed. No, no lights hit it in. Put it right up against the first developed piece of film. You would shine light through the camera, and you would let it just run in this way you would transferred the images from one step to the other and This was called by packing because you're putting two different pieces of film through the camera to. To achieve this process, and you could also do this, not just with developed film. Where you're making copies, you could do it with negatives. You could do it in a way to increase contrast from copy to copy until you were able to create a holdout. Matt reverse printing the hold out. Matt creates a White Silhouette on a black background or a cover matt. So now you've got a hold out Matt and a cover Matt. The footage of previously shot background. Let's say it's a foreboding forest, so you've shot your actors in a sound stage, but you want the background to be this really scary looking for us and by pack film and camera with the background footage that you had shot and the Black Silhouette hold out matt of the actors footage that you shot then you would transfer this combination to a third piece of unexposed film by again shining a light through those other to pieces, and because the background on the Holdout Matte is white? The light passes through it easily, and it hits the previously shot background image that comes through and gets copied onto the blank film. The Silhouette of your actors is black. That prevents light from passing through, so the previously blank third piece fell. Now has a background image and this dark silhouette of actors moving through the frame. Then, you have to take that piece of film that has this Black Silhouette, and you have to bypass it with the original footage of the actor, not the silhouette, but the actual actor footage, and now the real actor is on top of the silhouette appears to actually be in front of whatever the background images in our case, the foreboding forest because this type of Matt moves from frame to frame. It's called a traveling Matt, and if you remember fragile rock, you might remember. Traveling at is the name of go-goes uncle. Go by the way is another stage enlightening term it stands for a template or Stencil that controls the shape of a lamps emitted light. So some of the FRY goals had a fun. Industry names Gogo and traveling that. When we come back, we will continue down the history of how Chroma key came about, but first. Let's take a quick break. Let me tell you guys a quick story so in two thousand six. I was in a job that I wasn't really happy in, and I really wanted something different so. Like an idiot, I did searches for other jobs while I was at work. Most of you're probably thinking. Why didn't you just use incognito mode in those job searches? Let me tell you. Something Incognito does not hide your activity. The person running your network still see every single website you've ever visited. That's why even when I'm at home. I never go online without using express VPN. In the United States can legally sell your information to add companies express. VPN Is an APP that re routes your Internet connection through their secure servers. So your I S P can't see the sites you visit most of the time I don't even realize I have expressed VPN on. It runs seamlessly in the background and is so easy to use all you have to do is tap one button and you're protected. Express bbn is available on all your devices, phones computers, even smart TV, so there's no excuse for you to not be using it. Protect your online activity today with the VPN rated number one by C net and wired visit. My exclusive link express via an. An DOT com slash tech stuff, and you can get an extra three months free on a one year package. That's E. X. P. R.. E.. S. S.. VPN Dot com slash tech stuff, express bbn dot, com slash tech stuff to learn more capital. One knows life doesn't alert you about your credit card. That's why we created iino. The capital one assistant that looks out for surprise credit card charges like over tipping duplicate charges or potential fraud, then sends an alert to your phone and helps if you need to fix them another way, capital one is watching out for your money when you're not capital one. What's in your wallet? Seed capital one dot. com for details. Before the break I was talking about the Williams process, but see dodge dunning would improve upon the Williams process by using yellow light to shoot the actor in front of a blue screen, creating the dunning process, and this was used extensively in the classic nineteen thirty three film. King Kong and they were great for black and white film remembered. This is before anyone was shooting on color so although I mean there were ways of treating film to create color, but this was standard, black and white films. He didn't have to worry about the weird lighting, but if you wanted to shoot in color that was going to cause require other considerations. Around the same time, engineers were developing the optical printer, which really simplified the process of transferring images from one strip of film to another. Had talked about by packing, but the optical process could. Be An alternative to that it didn't eliminate it, but it was a different way to achieve the same thing. Essentially, an optical printer has projector on one side and a camera on the other. The projector shoots saw the projected that then gets copied onto a new unexposed roll of film inside the camera, and also allowed filmmakers to create new effects by changing the focal point of the camera or the distance between the projector and the camera, and rather than by packing camera. You just use this process. You could get better results. The first mass produced optical printer hit the market in the mid nineteen forties and king from a company called Acme. In addition, filmmakers created rear projection background, so in these actors would perform in front of a screen like projection screen, not a green screen or a blue screen, and behind that screen would be at a film projector, and it would provide a projected background image. You could do this in place of the processes of already described putting your actors in front of a screen that shows whatever background you wanted. The background could. Could be fairly static, but didn't have to be. You could include a background that was actually dynamic showing movement. It could be a film in of itself. This was used a lot in shots where people were in vehicles and talking with one another so rather than setting up a car on a trailer and shooting it in the real world with the camera on the trailer or worse yet, trying to figure out how. How fit camera onto a real moving car that's operated by an actor, you typically have performance sitting in a stationary vehicle and the screen behind, and sometimes to either side of them would display previously shot footage of scenery going by from the correct perspective as if the car were driving down the road. This wasn't necessarily convincing. Mind you, but it was an interesting technique. In nineteen, thirty two engineers created a process to. To produce films in color called privately technicolor. Interestingly in this process images would be captured. Two three strips of black and white film at this stage is the try strip approach? This was not the original version of technicolor. It was technically the fourth incarnation of the technicolor technology, but the important one for our discussion. So how do you produce a color image if you're using black and white film as your medium? Well, first you have to shoot your footage and inside an early technicolor, try strip camera behind the lens was an optical cube and acted as prism prisons, break-up, incoming light into bands of frequencies, and you've likely had one or played with one or at least seen one. Kostov light goes through it, and then it makes rainbows. You see a Seattle. Rainbow Pattern projected somewhere. This prism would break up the incoming light into three bands that corresponded with red, green and blue. Each of those bands of light would hit one of three strips of black and white film inside the cameras, so one strip of film would be exposed to all the red light coming from a scene one from all the green light, coming from a scene, one from the blue, the concentration of each color in the. The scene would affect how much light was hitting each strip a film, so you'd end up with three negatives of your scene that were all perfectly synchronized all of them in black and white, but each with different levels of brightness for different objects at all dependent on what color the objects were in the scene, a red chair for example would appear as a very prominent image on the black and white film that was hit with the red light, while it would be less noticeable in the green and blue strips. Now you would develop the negatives and you had processed the film the three strips of film and you would print them just as you would. A regular black and white movie, and you would technically have three identical, black and white sequences that only while not identical, because the brightness would be different between each, they would be of the exact same shot. You would then process these film strips by dying each of them in their respective color, so you'd literally end up with a red tinted strip of film, blue, tinted strip, film and a green tinted strip of film. Then you would take these three died strips of film, and you would laminate them together, and you had print that to a new role of film, and you would have a color motion picture. which was fairly accurate, although the technical process would evolve over time to become even more so and the technicolor process is really what set the stage for the next part of our stories why I felt the need to even explain how it works. Now we get to a guy named Lawrence Larry. Butler he was born in Nineteen Oh eight, and he was actually a second generation optical effects professional, his father William Butler had been a silent film actor who frequently appeared indeed w Griffith Films Larry worked on several motion pictures in the nineteen thirties before creating a new composite process in nineteen forty for the film, the thief of Bagdad in that film Butler introduced a new special effect approach and And this would be the birth of the blue screen all right? Let's break down this process. It builds on technicolor as I mentioned so with technicolor you get three prints of your shop right one for red one for green one for blue. If you created a solid backdrop in one of those three colors and shot something in front of that background, you could use that particular strip of film to create a traveling Matte. Remember the color would show up as very bright in your black and white film print, because a lot of light is reflecting off of that particular color effectively, you could make a negative image of whatever the foreground was the stuff. Your shooting would be dark and the. Would be bright. You'd have to make sure that nothing in the scene had the same color. However, where else you're traveling, Matt would effectively have holes in it because the color of the foreground would match the color of the background You've probably seen this. If someone's ever worn a shirt. That's the same color as whatever screen they're supposed to be. Standing in front of the same thing would even happen in film. It's just that it would happen well in advance of anyone being able to see it happen like see the. The effect of it because you had to do all this other processing the other two strips of black and white film would have pretty dark backgrounds, because the light projected onto them. What match the color of the backdrop right You could take the film of a background shot. This is called the background plate, so this previously shot film of whatever it is whatever setting, you're planning on putting this stuff, and then you use the traveling matte against it an optical printer and that would produce a silhouette of the foreground action. And it's that black hole. That's the shape of whatever it was. You were shooting new. Take this newprint in which you've got the silhouette of your action against the previously filmed backdrop, and combine that with the processed color film to fill in that hole, left by the traveling Matt. So you've got this possibility now of creating a traveling matt by taking advantage of the technicolor process, but then you have to make a decision which of the three colors should be the focus. Focus whichever color you choose is going to determine what you can shoot because you can't have any objects or people in the scene that have that color on them or the traveling map won't work properly. This is what it I mean when I say if you've ever seen someone. ONSCREEN news had a background the fact bleed onto them the color of closing. They're wearing was laying it happen. You've seen that issue, so color decided to go with blue as the backdrop color. Color largely because he determined, it was a color far removed from skin tones, and he wanted to make sure that actors wouldn't match the color of the background and mess everything up so as long as you weren't shooting anything blue in the foreground you could use this process to a composite image of the foreground action against a different background, he also would combine the blue negative image with the green, positive or processed image to create a better traveling. Matt something more solid. Solid Silhouette in other words, butlers contribution led to him winning an academy award for this process. Still this was an incredibly time consuming approach at sure you've gathered that just for my explanation of it because he had to shoot your sequence yet to create the traveling matte negative yet combine that against the background footage, and you had to combine that combination of the background image, and the traveling Matt with the fully processed color image, and then ultimately come up with A. Composite Piece of film. It gave filmmakers way more options when making movies allowed them to shoot stuff inside a sound stage, rather than whatever location they would have to go to end, even opened out locations that would otherwise be impossible, but it did require a lot of post, production, time and work. It also required a close attention to lighting. Otherwise you would end up with Blue Halos around people, and that was pretty darn distracting. All of these different approaches required really good lighting, sometimes really intense lighting, so it would also create pretty uncomfortable shooting conditions that would get really hot in those sound stages, so while it was phenomenal, technology required a lot of finesse to use it properly and human touch was absolutely necessary through every stage of the process now over the next several years, really decades movies. Movies benefited from this technology. The tech filmmakers do all sorts of neat things, not only could they make it seem like actors were in places that would be hard or difficult to shoot in or places that maybe don't even exist. They also allowed for stuff like the incorporation of animation and live action in a way. That wasn't really possible before I'll get back to that again in a second, but in the early nineteen fifties Eastman Kodak created the color motion picture film that simplified the process of. Of shooting on colors significantly, so rather than exposing three strips of black and white film, different bands of light, and then processing them to create a composite color image, this new film actually contained all the layers that corresponded to blue, green and red. They each had essentially filters and dies in them, and each layer effectively had its own silver halide crystals, and respective dies in streamlining the process for shooting on and developing color film. You just had to have one strip, not the try strip approach of. Of Color and really changed things, also by tweaking the blue screen process. Some inventors were able to get spectacular results. This gets us back to that live action animation discussion. That would be Petro. vlahos, who is the engineer who worked on a little film called Mary poppins in the early nineteen sixties host wanted to improve upon the technology that Butler had created and one of the issues he sought to address was that the color blue used for blue screens wasn't a specific wavelength of light. GotTa remember that the wavelength of light, or if you prefer the the frequency of light, the two are. Determines. The lights color the color that we perceive and the wavelengths corresponding to the blue screen of the day range from four hundred thirty five nanometers to five hundred nanometers, and that meant any color blue that fell in or near that range was off limits for use in a scene. Figured there had to be a better way, and he decided to use a different backdrop color entirely yellow, but not just any yellow. He wanted a precise yellow. The yellow that comes from sodium gas discharge lamps. When you excite sodium gas essentially when you energize it with electricity, the gas gives off a distinct yellow light with a wavelength of five hundred eighty nine nanometers. As long as nothing in the camera frame matches that precise shade of yellow, you can have all sorts of colors in the shot, including different shades of yellow, and not have to worry about skimping on things like blue costume pieces paired with this was a customized camera that contained a prism that could isolate the five hundred eighty nine wavelength of light Vallejo's was able to produce an. An incredibly precise and accurate traveling matt this way which meant Disney could place actors on any separate background without worrying about the effect showing at the seams in fact in one sequence Mary poppins is wearing a hat that has this veil like material on it, and you can actually see the background, the anime background through the veil, and that's because of the precision of this approach. There was one small hiccup, which was that loss only had one working prism that isolate this specific band of light, this five hundred eighty nine nanometer band of light, so they only had one sodium versus camera as a result. Now when we come back, we're going to look at the further evolution of this technology including how it has changed once the digital became a reality but first. Let's take another quick break. That would lexus open stores. One of the first steelers made important observation. Lexus wasn't in the car business. They were in the people business. Above all, they needed to be helpful, respectful and compassionate. To treat people of light guest. It's what they agreed to do from the start. And rededicate themselves to every day. Today. How we all interact with each other is changing, but who we are isn't in a time of uncertainty. We are all looking for new ways to be human to connect to reach out. To respond. Now when we need each other, most lexus will continue to do what they've always done. Take care of people first then the rest will follow. Visit Lexus Dot. COM SLASH PEOPLE I to find out what LEX is doing for their guests, their employees and for our communities. Today's episode is sponsored by serve pro. As America begins to reopen, we have a new sense of what it means to feel. Safe in the spaces where we gather serve pro is committed to bringing a higher standard of clean to those places with certified serve pro cleaned. If you see the certified, serve pro cleaned sticker on the front door of businesses in your community, you'll know the nation's number. One choice in cleanup and restoration was there. Call one eight, hundred serve pro or visit serve pro dot com, that's S., e., r., V., p.. R. O. DOT COM franchises are independently owned and operated. On the film world for this podcast so far, but I also have to talk about the use of Chroma key technology in the world live television. Seeing Mary poppins came out in nineteen, sixty four, but the first use of Chroma key on live. TV was in the late nineteen fifties. This is the same technology that would become the basis for TV weather reports where the meteorologist. Meteorologist stands in front of the wall, which seems to have a dynamic map on it that can change from one image to the next, but if the process I've described required so many steps. If you had to do so much post production on the film, How could you take that same basic idea and make it work in the realm of television in real time live broadcast? Frank. Gaskins and Mitt Altman led this effort at NBC in the Nineteen Fifties. They created a television camera approach to Chroma key and tested out in nineteen, fifty, seven with a live broadcast of Matinee Theatre, the specific story they chose to serve as the first experiment, here was an adaptation of the invisible man, and that was fitting, because the nineteen thirty three film adaptation of the invisible man had relied heavily on the old Williams process. The live television version initially relied on two cameras. One camera would capture a background image. The camera would be foreground camera. That'd be for all the action in the sequence and. And behind all this action would be a blue backdrop, combining these two sets of images simultaneously in a device called a chroma key amplifier would create a live composite video feed. Engineers at RCA, created the actual technology and I think it's best if I just quote directly from the Nineteen Fifty Eight edition of the Journal Electronic Age that describes this process, so here's a quote. A switching signal or a color key used an association with the Special Effects Amplifier controls. The signals sent out over the air. The switching signal is in turn created by the camera photographing the live action in front of the blue screen. While the camera is scanning the blue screen. The switching device automatically activates these second camera which projects the background when the scanning signal reaches an area covered by the live actors, the switching device turns off the camera, projecting the backup material and transmits the action. Now, that's the end of that quote. You could also feed images directly to the CHROMA. Key amplifier didn't have to be a live video from a second camera, so you could provide an image like a map allowing meteorologist to stand in front of an otherwise blank, blue or green screen and gesture at various regions, the audience at home would see the meteorologist to stand in front of the map or maybe a summary of the forecast weather for the week, and not just a blue screen or green screen. Around the nineteen seventies. That's when we started to see a gradual shift particularly in television from blue screens to green ones. Part of that was because of a very slow transition into digital technology become more important as digital cameras became a thing. Digital cameras were better attuned to doing this with Greens rather than with blues, although you can do either, but another big reason was just that people don't tend to wear a lot of green, whereas blue was a pretty and still is a pretty popular color, and once in a while, someone on camera would forget that they're wearing blue, and then they'd step in front of a blue screen, and suddenly there jacket, nor their shirt, or they're tired or whatever would become part of the background image. Back to film for we're going to leave. TV for a second in nineteen eighty. A guy named Richard. Who worked on a little film called the empire strikes back made another big contribution to the Chroma. Key Process edlund developed a claude optical printer, which both sped up the process for producing composite film shots, and also brought the price down as well I. Mean if you think about it, saving time means saving money. He also developed a computer controlled system of cameras which allowed for very precise camera movements, and that meant you could create choreographed shots of foreground and background and composite them together, and have the match up perfectly. It was also really effective for processing images that were shot with miniatures, which was done a lot in the original star wars series, so it's still a pain staking process, but now. Now a lot more could be done on one piece of equipment per pass as opposed to having to do a process on the piece of equipment didn't do it again, and then again and again until you finally got whatever result you were after gradually computer software would creep into the realm of and video effects, and this leads us to a version of Chroma key that I think is. Actually the easiest to understand it's technically advanced, but the principle is simple, so let's say that you want to do a twitch stream, and you're playing a video game live, and you want your viewers to see you sitting in front of the video game footage so wants to make a dynamic background of video game. Play behind you, so you go out and you buy green screen. Screen and you set it up behind your gaming chair. You throw up some lights more on that in the second and you launch a program that will insert your video game capture as a custom digital background. Your viewers will see you sitting in front of the screen, otherwise filled with Al. no skyro-, him or minecraft or the untitled goose game, or whatever it is, you're playing. What's going on on a technical level? Well, the digital world is different from the analog world in lots of ways, but importantly for our discussion it comes down to how in the digital world everything. Boils down to numeric values. You or I could have a debate about whether a particular color is aquamarine versus Arrow blue versus blue, green versus dark sedan, or whatever it may be, but in the digital world every color ultimately has a numeric value. Assuming whatever we're looking at is a solid color. You could designate that solid color with a specific numeric value in computer software, and then replicated or immediately identify within any scene you. You might see where I'm going here with video software, you can designate a specific color from one video source The specific color is the Chroma as it were, and this is the color you want to replace or key out the video software analyzes information that's coming from. Say a digital camera feed into your computer, and it looks for any signals that map to the value or values of the color or colors. You've picked. Mo- software lets you fine tune this, so you can adjust the settings to hone in on the specific shade of green or blue, or whatever it is that you plan to key out anything that matches that value or range of values then gets turned into a transparent video layer. The secondary image in our case, the video game footage that we're creating as we're playing. This game shows through this transparent layer, and you can actually think of the foreground video as an overlay on top of the digital background layer the the video game footage, anything transparent in that overlay will show the background through at the solid stuff. Presumably you, the twitch player will block. Block the background inch, so viewers will be able to see their favourite twitch streamers sitting in front of the video game. The software does all work for you. Creating the composite video feed that the viewer sees that software by the way isn't which itself twitch is a video streaming platform, but to actually do these sort of effects. You'd need to use some other pieces of. Of software such as some version of open broadcaster, software, or OB, S and there are a lot of different versions of video broadcasting software available for folks to play with from free stuff to professional grade stuff. This type of versatility is the kind of stuff that previously you would have had to have worked in like a TV studio to have access to, but now anyone. Anyone with a sufficiently beefy computer can run this kind of operation for this to work well, you want to have really good lighting, both for the foreground, and for the background drop. You want the lighting on the green screen. You're using to be nice, and even and you want to eliminate any shadows because of your casting a shadow on the green screen the camera. Will pick up that part of the green screen as being a darker color, and it might even be dark enough that the video software doesn't identify it as the color that you want to key out so in those cases you would get these weird video artifacts onscreen as a result, it'd be really distracting so ideally want lights that will eliminate the green screen evenly and are dedicated just for that purpose. If, you're lighting yourself directly from the front. You're not using a ring, light or anything like that. Then you're going to be casting a shadow behind you unless you're Peter Pan in which case I guess, you just think happy thoughts now this flies for stuff like zoom meetings and twitch streams, but when it comes to professional grade film, it's not really up to snuff. Software can do a bulk of the work, but human effects. Artists are still needed to make sure everything is coming out well, they can step. Step in and do some quality control. They can tweak things they could fix any issues that pop up and that pays off. You probably seen a movie that had phenomenal attention to this process, and the effects are top notch. Then you pricing other movies where due to whatever reason. Maybe it was budget. Maybe it's just the talent of the people working on it. You could tell that such care wasn't given to the process, and it shows in the final product I still think films like Jurassic Park I'm. I'm talking about the original drastic park. Hold up pretty darn well, and part of that is that the movie depended on a mixture of different effects. Some of them were computer generated and Keaton. Some were robotic effects, but a lot of this has to do with the fact that the effects team as a whole took tremendous care to produce results that were really convincing to the eye, and that's the story behind Chroma key and green or blue screen technology. It's a super interesting approach to creating a composite. Composite Moving image, and frankly there's going to be a lot of other topics around this that I can go into. I could probably talk even more about optical printers for example and the various approaches to film processing, and you can see that while the actual chroma key process is very different between film and digital video, the basic idea of replacing one color or one element in a shot with something from a different source, remains the same as the same underlying principle, no matter what the actual processes. If you guys have suggestions for future topics I should cover here on tech stuff whether it's a specific technology accompany intact. Rally in Tech. Maybe it's just a trend intact in general. Reach out to me. Let me know what I should cover. You can get in touch through twitter or facebook. The over both of those is stuff H.. S. W. and I'll talk to you again. 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Where does returned merchandise go?

Marketplace with Kai Ryssdal

27:42 min | 1 year ago

Where does returned merchandise go?

"This marketplace podcast is brought to you by vast a global cybersecurity company trusted by over four hundred million people avast is dedicated to protecting you online so you can connect connect to the internet confidently avast keeping people safe from cyber attacks visit them at a vast dot com and by lenovo. You don't need a computer you. You need an all day all hours machine. You need a lenovo workstation named most reliable by technology business research inc to learn more about leonova workstations nations visit solutions dot lenovo dot com slash workstations powered by intel in which goodwill has a value and wealth has a time limit from american public media. This is marketplace six in los angeles. I'm kai result. It is thursday eight august today. There's always to have you along. Everybody a very brief moment as we could go on for this. Did you hear that nothing. Nothing no big trade more news today. Nothing about the currency war no market craziness. Take your moments where you can get them right. Take them we will in non crisis economic news. The corporate story of this thursday is brought to us by velveeta and cool whip. Today was not a good day for parent company craft hines. The company reported its twelfth street. Quarter net is three years worth of lousy sales. It also said that those aforementioned brands and some others that company nobody owns just aren't worth as much as they used to be specifically. The company said it had lost four hundred seventy four million dollars. Worth of something called goodwill goodwill marketplace's suburban ashore helps us understand goodwill a warm and fuzzy feeling like on sesame street <hes> a aac on wall street. There's something kind of like that. <hes> just minus the warm feelings part goodwill's one type of intangible asset that a company might have michelle hanlin professor of accounting at mit sloan school when one company buys another it'll pay money for you know the stuff that the company owns equipment the the building the trademarks then usually pay extra because you like this company you see something in it has a certain genesee qua- some value above beyond value both assets like maybe that company is strategically valuable to your you'll become more efficient by getting it or there's also musher stuff. You know if you have very loyal customers. Apple has very loyal customers but that's not something that apple would have on their balance sheet. The extra money above the paper value that one company repaved by another that money is listed as goodwill. This is one of the most subjective and judgmental areas of accounting doug skinner is professor professor of accounting at chicago's booth school craft hines for example had to estimate the genocide qua- value of all the companies. It's bought over the years like what's their market price now and well. They're not looking so good clean living people just looking for a healthier lifestyle. You don't want as much processed food. Pete bible is chief risk officer with eisneramper. He says some of craft hines magic is gone and on wall street. Even magic has a price tag. It's called goodwill hundreds of millions of dollars worth of it in new new york. I'm sure for marketplace to consumer retail. We turn now fashion in general clothing rental in particular bloomingdale's is launching something similar to rent the runway which has been leasing designer dresses and accessories for almost a decade now. There's also talk today that hudson's bay which owns lord and taylor is going to be partnering during with clothing rental service loot and this summer nordstrom announced. It's partnering with a runway itself workplaces. Mary barra explains the department store rental connection. Department stores have a lot of problems these days among them. They can't seem to attract younger customers. Robert conrad teaches fashion merchandising indexing at college re survey when he also now gen z. and talk about shopping habits and buying patterns and invariably department stores fall all to the bottom of the list of places to go instead a lot of millennials are shopping online and renting close from companies like rent the runway la- tote and the ms ms collection veronica sunset is the co founder of the marketing conference commerce next or millennial consumer's. What you're seeing a lot of times. They're buying the basic so <unk> their genes. They're they're like solid colors but all of those pieces that are more expressive and unique and fashion pieces those are starting to move into the rental market so the department stores see an opportunity to reach these customers and collect data on what they search for what they rent which outfits they keep but starting clothing rental service even for an established retailer like bloomingdale's won't be easy it only to dry clean inspect and track every piece of clothing thon sav says is rent. The runway has that down to a science. They are getting enclosed at ten o'clock in the morning. They are cleaning it many and getting it back out into the market by something like three or four in the afternoon and that takes a huge logistical operation which is why some department stores are partnering with existing sting rental companies in return. The rental companies get access to wrecks villa close and a whole lot of fitting rooms for their customers. I'm maryelle sagarra for marketplace this. You know what wall street did with the absence of trade war and currency war news yeah went up is what it did a lot. We'll have the details when we do the numbers and talking to bryan donkin or hog farmer out in illinois the other day about agriculture and the trade war circular bad news is what he called it the repetitive cycle of tariffs and counter entertainers threats and more threats agr- allies a whole lot on exports is the thing but even before this administration took over some parts of the american farming industry had been having some problems marketplace's justin hose on that one. There's a four hundred cal farm in wisconsin called the nelson family dairy farm. Sara lloyd runs it with her husband and she he says dairy farms across the country are facing a big issue. We really do have too much malcolm. The market and that's pushed prices so low that hundreds of farms in wisconsin jason are going out of business loyd says for her farm. It's been a struggle. The nelson family farm has been in business for over one hundred years. Were really just digging deep into the asset base that the generations have built until around two thousand fourteen dairy prices had been hot and dairy farmers have been expanding their operations uh-huh says naomi bloom at the advisory firm stewart peterson it was kind of domino effect where each dairy farm in their own way was trying to become bigger work then global milk prices plummeted china drastically cut back on its milk imports the e._u. lifted production quotas russia banned western dairy imports but farms had to keep producing milk even if they were getting less for it to make their loan payments the dairy industry has had help federal subsidies have been estimated to make up as much just seventy three percent of dairy farm income and dan sumner and aggie economist at u._c. Davis says farms should be designed to withstand price swings farm prices. Go up and down. That's part of the business. Center says what's unusual. This time is how long they've been down and it's not just airy prices for a lot of egg. Commodities have been down for several years by now. He says they should have recovered. That hasn't really happened for a lotta commodities in part because they're so sensitive to the international trade turmoil china is the fifth largest export market for american agriculture including soybeans corn hawks before the trade dispute. It had been a top export market for years with with that market closed. Supply is building up in the u._s. California in wisconsin the two biggest milk producers are receiving one hundred and thirty billion dollars in aid this year to cope nope with a trade war sumner says there's another reason prices are staying low. The industry is getting more productive. It's getting better at farming that means that those people can dan produced the crops in the livestock products at slightly lower prices. Dairy prices are starting to rise a bit dean foods. The biggest milk producer in the u._s. said this week that it's paying more for milk part of that is the result of all the rain. We've had this year that made it hard to plant feed crops so prices are up then there's lower production reduction dairy farms going out of business but back at the nelson family dairy farm. Sarah lloyd's has reduced milk production could help farmers in the long run. We just really need talk with people about hey. What if you produce less and got paid. More than national farmers union has called for a government incentive program to better control the dairy market that could mean capping production charging a fee farmers want to expand so far. Nothing's made it through congress. I'm justin ho for marketplace <music> in the wealth gap in this economy has been higher profile than usual lately. It's come up in the presidential race jay. A powell is talking about it at the fed course closing the difference between the rich and the poor in this society is obviously easier said than done and it gets even more difficult when you add race into that mix more cheeks wrote about her own family's past in the atlantic not too long ago. It's a story called. American wealth is broken more welcome to the program. Hi thank you for having me. <hes> i want to start up at the top of this <hes> of this long. It's a long piece <hes> but right near the top you talk about <hes> black wealth as being delicate and i want you to explain what that means well. I was really interested in writing about intergenerational wealth. I think think a lot of the conversation about while focuses on closing the wealth gap but we don't really talk about the implications of intergenerational wealth and what does that mean if your parents have money or your grandparents have money and what kind of opportunities does that for you and so that's what i mean when i when i say black wealth is delicate because for a lot of families the intergenerational safety net isn't there so i i can't decide here. Actually whether i wanna go to your dad <hes> maurice maurice cheeks basketball player now a basketball coach in the n._b._a. For for many many years <hes> or your grandfather and i think really what we have to do is go to your granddad right well. Oh my grandfather started an h._v._a._c. company in philadelphia. <hes> he started his company by selling air conditioners on the side <hes> while he was still employed floyd with a full time job and eventually his side hustle as i call it in the peace afforded him the opportunity to be able to go out on his own that was is really the basis for <hes> my family safety net was that you know him being the first generation of becoming an entrepreneur and really building that business and i'm moving into a nice neighborhood and a nice house and i was given the opportunity to go to a fantastic school right except the house then <hes> doesn't doesn't end well right in that particular instance it did not end well and for me it was <hes> very illuminating to be one of few black students in the school and then suddenly going through the process of us having to sell her home <hes> and so having to sell that really opened my my eyes to the fact that you know we didn't really have a substantial safety net nine and the reason for that partly is because of the policies that have affected african americans for generations will so let's talk about some of those is right and why was it that your grandfather has a business deal go bed which is what happened and you lose the family house structurally what has happened in this economy to make as you say jay african american wealth so so fragile so tenuous well i mean i. I think that you know i write a lot about data. From the panel study the of income dynamics which is the world's longest running logic juvenile household survey and a lot of researchers have analyzed this data. You know they found found that the family circumstances of black middle income americans <hes> results in black families having twenty seven percent cent less wealth than their white counterparts. If you look at these numbers it's pretty apparent that the wealth gap isn't an accident because of the lack of intergenerational <hes> wealth and black families so let's get now to your dad. <hes> maurice cheeks as i said <hes> played in the n._b._a. Made made decent money for his time but not exceptional money right and and you're right that the first thing he did when he started getting pro basketball paychecks was literally to send money the home yeah and i you know i don't want to make it seem like we're victims and were not fortunate for where we've come from. I mean he has it done amazing. He's in the basketball hall of fame. He is successful in a lot of cases. We look at these success stories. We think while they've made it and that isn't the case. Yes i mean his mom. My grandmother was still living in the robert taylor homes in housing projects and so that factors into wealth as well. Do you feel fragile. I do not but that's that is a result of my family <hes> and i i think if you look at white counterparts in my same position they would feel a lot more stability than i feel and i think that that that is a result of the fact that my family like many many african american families are still you know grappling with the realities of the policies and to be frank the legacy of slavery for sure black people for a very long time and were considered the wealth of this country and so until we acknowledge that i think there is still going to be issues with the way we talk about closing the wealth gap <hes> in in a meaningful way more cheeks <hes> writing too long ago in the atlantic <hes> about black wealth and her family and <hes> and how that all plays out more. Thanks a lot. I appreciate your time. Thank you for having me <music> coming up and so finally one day i chapter turn the hallway man high school counselors can be tough. I though stood the numbers but okay the happy music very happy. Music down does shows up three seventy one today one point four percent in the absence of trade war news twenty six thousand three seventy eight on the blue chips. The nasdaq increased one hundred seventy six six points nearly two and a quarter percent there eight thousand thirty nine p. five hundred fifty four points one point eight percents twenty nine thirty eight tireless objective by uh-huh kraft heinz. We mentioned down eight and a half percent today. Not everything came on wrapped package free business. Though mondelez international rose two point eight percent today general mills crunched up two percent zillow revealed in its quarterly earnings report that is new home flipping business. Maybe eight dow dow zillow's lot more than fifteen and a half percent percent today. Bonds fell yield on the tenure of just attach one point seventy percent. You're listening to marketplace. This marketplace. Podcast is brought to you by kronos. Kronos knows was that hiring and retaining a modern workforce of salaried hourly full and part-time workers can be challenging especially in today's competitive job market. That's why kronos puts h._r. Our payroll talent and time in one place so h._r. Professionals supporting a blended workforce have all the tools they need to engage and motivate people every step of the way learn more <unk> at cronos dot com slash h._r. Swagger kronos workforce innovation that works and by court workplace when it comes to business change is inevitable and the pressure to make the right moves can be overwhelming court workplace empowers businesses by offering access to furniture without the obligation of ownership eliminate the hassle and cost of furniture management and let court handle every free detail from the first call to professional install then as your business expands contracts celebrate highs and lows the environment in which you experience the journey conflicts with you whether you're a startup that wants to conserve capital and maintain flexibility or an enterprise so wants to remain competitive and adaptable court can provide the right solution with professional grade furniture that could stand up to the rigor of business and since millions of tons of office furniture contribute to landfill overflow. You can feel good knowing your office is making the sustainable choice to learn more and find a furniture solution. That's right for you visit court dot dot com that c._o. R._t. dot com. This is marketplace. I'm kai ryssdal. Two words people two words free shipping a report support from the national retail federation says seventy five percent of us. Don't expect to have to pay to get stuff delivered to our front door that might get more of us to click the checkout buttons sure but more online shopping also means more returns and for companies the sales lost the shipping costs the warehouse space restocking all adds up so lila goldstein set out to discover exactly how retailers are dealing with that deluge of returns nina frank williams loves the experience of sifting through secondhand clothes at goodwill but when it comes to finding genes with that perfect fit she turns to the internet. I really like levi's jeans and they have a lot more selection action online. As far as the styles go. She recently ordered three different pairs of levi's to weren't right so she sent them back and she was curious. What happened to those jeans after she returned them. Where does it end up. Does it get resold. Does it get trashed. What's the life of this returned merchandise. Williams guesses are on the great track. Some returns might be put back on store shelves others and up in a landfill. Some are sold in bulk and some are donated. None of that is unusual. What's new is the amount of returns retailers are dealing with because of online shopping ecommerce sales in the u._s. Top five hundred billion dollars in two thousand eighteen up almost fifteen percent from the year before return rates on online sales are much higher than return rates from brick and mortar sales three four five times. Dr jordan jakubowicz is with touro a company that makes software to streamline the returns process of toro's clients include big retailers like target and best buy he he says the kind of automation but makes shipping orders out so efficiently days i e robots isn't exactly possible when return items come back to the retailers players returns. Don't come back neatly packaged in pristine boxes. You might get a truck at the warehouse that has a laptop on it and it has a lawnmower lawnmower and it has a t. shirt and it has a bouncy ball so retailers use data analytics to reduce costs when sorting out returns spending more resources on two thousand dollar t._v. We say unless onto dollars stocks companies also bundle up returned merchandise and auction it off to resellers on sites like liquidation dot com this stop all of this equipment. Everything you see is what we bought on. Liquidation patterns here in his living room in queens new york v dot med sorts through a recent shipment. The furniture fisher is covered with boxes of amazon and walmart returns wooden pallets stacked four feet high with merchandise get delivered to his curb. Each one cost around four hundred to eight eight hundred dollars. He does get to see a list of what's included before he bids but the condition of the items is no guarantee. Take this brand new milwaukee drill bits that that he's has the original buyer that took out one piece that there needed and dishes all of this back stacks d._v._d.'s for many towers and a set of ralph lauren crystal drinking glasses rests on the couch are not sure about how to resell something that expensive and why somebody would want to buy it once he inspects everything he'll donate the low quality stuff and trash the broken things he pays for electronic waste to be taken away and also spends nine hundred bucks a month on a storage unit the good stuff steph he re boxes and resells on sites like you guessed it amazon we can make somewhere between one hundred fifty two hundred fifty dollars per pallet but there's always he's the possibility that the things added cells will also get returned and that's a huge headache for him. Being a set of i understand inflow can be and how it can make could break businesses. That's changed the way he shops for himself. Even though amazon returns fuel his business he says in the last year he hasn't returned a thing. I'm lila goldstein for marketplace. Are there's been a lot of company news today so stay with me here. I'm going to get a little bit seinfeld in on you here. Have you ever noticed how we add possessive possessive. S.'s two company names all the time even when they don't have an s. on the end is it tiffany or tiffany's says ler or sizzlers nordstrom or nordstroms north rooms. I think it's nordstrom nordstrom's. I think i think it's nordstrom that was one one hundred four annabel seymour oscar via senor michael george. We got them all here. In downtown los angeles. We've got a whole story about why we do that. S thing marketplace dot org a colleges and universities across the country country about to get going with the new academic year if they haven't already a good chunk of those students past and present probably got some help from their high school counselor the starting point for today's installment of our series my economy. This one comes from a high school right outside chicago. My name is elise gilbert. I'm a college counselor at highland island park high school in highland park illinois. I was a first generation college student a low income first generation college student i. I knew that i was always going to go to college. I just didn't necessarily know kind of how to get there how to get from point eight point b but many of my friends runs had parents who had gone to college and they were doing things like taking the s._a._t. And taking the a._c._t. And so i just went along and registered because they did head it is that that lands and that experience guides me in the work that i do. I had a student who was in the top ten percent of her class and she she never applied to college and i would tell her to come and meet with me and and she would kind of dodge me until finally one day i chapter in the hallway and i brought her into my office and i sat her down and i said so. You have not apply to college like tell me what you're thinking and she just immediately burst into tears at that moment i i realized that she was not documented. She had an older sister who i did not know who had applied to college and because of her undocumented status was charged out of state tuition she just knew that her parents could not afford that and so she could go to college but by the time this young woman was in high school illinois one of the number of states that had passed tuition equity legislation which is where undocumented students who have attended high school for three years have an opportunity to pay in state tuition at state university and i said well this is what you would have to pay to go to college and she she looked at me in disbelief and she said we can do that. She said i we can definitely do that but what i remember most about this. This was that lots of students who think that college is an option. Give up on high school right because there's no reason for high school. If it's not to help you go to college and i said well. You didn't think that why did you work so hard in high school and what made you want to be so successful and she said ah. I decided that if this was the only education that i was ever going to get that i better not waste it. Eliza gilbert helping kids navigate college from highland park high school outside of chicago. You know we can only do this series with your help. Share your story with us about your economy at marketplace dot this final note on the way out today. Serendipity thy name is lil- knows ex this item from bloomberg. You've heard about old town on-road right the eighteen weeks at the top of the billboard. One hundred country rap hit song whose lyrics include this line wrangler on budi says wrangler parent company c._e._o. Ios scott baxter. We knew nothing about it and then it just took off from there of course wrangler put together a co branding thing with luna's x. quoting baxter again every time we put more product online it sold out immediately because you know wrangler on mahmudi breath all right. We're out here the dallas three seventy one today one point point four percent the nasdaq up one hundred seventy six points nearly two and a quarter percent there the s. and p. five hundred fifty four points to the good one point eight percent amir papa john john buckley eve epstein john gordon keller and betsy streisand are the marketplace editing staff. I'm kai ryssdal. We will see tomorrow bundy. This is a._p._n.

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Trade Old, Draft Young

The Kevin Sheehan Show

1:18:49 hr | 7 months ago

Trade Old, Draft Young

"You want it you need it. It's what everyone's talking about the Kevin Sheehan show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to the sports fix. Good evening them to the NFL draft day. Twenty twenty. And it's GonNa be a different one. We won't hear that tonight. Tommy will we? We won't get the the annual booing of the commissioner and nobody booth louder than the Philadelphia Fans when it was in Philly a few years ago. I'll miss that tonight. I will miss that tonight. There will be billing from homes all over America but the Commissioner won't hear it. Well we don't know if the commissioner has attention humor he's going to have a family bullying him in. Yes actually somebody sent me. Somebody sent me something a few days ago that the NFL had some sort of self deprecating deprecating. Add about that. I haven't seen that Aaron. Maybe you can find it. We can play it back at the end of this show That it had something to do with the Commissioner being booed and May I you know what at this point if if they actually did something like that it would be. It would be a wonderful sort of expression of self-deprecation but it would almost be too obvious but if it was his family even if it was obvious it was his family. Funny Him I agree a step over. That would want to make it. Make it a totally different atmosphere. I think that would be funny then. Just manufactured booth from Nfl You know workers or or ESPN workers or or whatever You know I I. People hate the Authority Authority figures. They just do and you know nobody. Nobody ever liked David. Starring might have been the most beloved commissioner Of Our lifetime maybe rebel was earlier. He was also beloved. But most people hate commissioners you know and so And and Look Goodell you know has certainly made it. Easy sometimes to dislike him. But I never. I never quite understood the whole You know bullying and and all the vitriol against Commissioners so most sports I mean they worked for the owners all the commissioners worked pretty owners. They don't work for the fan. Roselle had a very good way about him. He was likable. In the way he communicated and by the way. I'm not so sure. David Stern was early on Necessarily but the the the the increase of the League's popularity some of the decisions. He made his a commissioner. Eventually I think people came to respect him but I think Roselle I mean at least my memory. Tommy is that Roselle was well liked by everybody other than Al Davis. He was the only person that didn't like Pete. Rozelle and I actually think that Adam. Silver has away about him. That's likable as well. But you're right they work. For THE COMMISSIONER'S. They're the ones that are on the frontlines of all of the bad news typically And so you know there's sort of a built in disadvantage for him. I think but I but goodell for the most part has been a bit of a rube as a commissioner. You know in a bit of dunces is a commissioner really yeah I grant you the whole The whole Bountygate the way they handle deflate. Worst radio terrible. The videotape The PATRIOTS VIDEOTAPE SCANDAL. Where they destroyed the tape. The other. There's a there's a lot of reasons to boot Roger Goodell and you know for the forty billion dollars. He gets a year his family can boom. That's true I think actually if his family was just booing him in the background and it didn't look completely staged in and sort of in concert. I think it would be pretty funny by the way it was Paul. Tagliabue's liked or not. I think he was fine. He's used sort of. He was a smart guy. Really Smart Guy lived here Very locally in Bethesda here in close a redskin and ticket redskins season ticket holder. Yeah so I went to play basketball. Georgetown I think I think that's right. I think that's right. I think I think he was but I tell you where. He was disliked in Baltimore Right. They hated him in Baltimore where he told them. After he gave a franchise Jackson. Go spend your money library. Yeah exactly all right so tonight is the NFL draft first question for you. And then I'll answer it as well. My question is there anything unseemly about this draft Taking place tonight in the midst of a world pandemic no no. I mean not not to me. It never seemed that way to me. I always felt that you could operate this without without creating an image of Of lack of safety While you were doing it I that's the only that's that's I mean and in terms of money involved. I I just think that you know on the list of being offended in terms of what kind of money these guys who make the rookies so make the same amount of money as the veterans. No I just think that the the idea the thirst for anything other than a list of your ten favorite athletes from any any feeling of resentment over the draft taking place. I mean because this is it. Look this is Selma and you louise driving off the cliff buddy. Yeah once once once. The car goes airborne tonight and I don't know yet so long. Then it's a long way down we've got. We've got the Jordan documentary the Bulls documentary over the next four weeks. We have we have a a major league Gulf showdown between Peyton and Tiger as one team Peyton Manning Tiger Woods Phil Mickelson. Tom Brady the other team made for TV Memorial Day weekend. Well that's a ways off. That's a month from now yet. No you're right I mean I think we've all sort of pointed to getting you know having free agency having the NFL draft to be excited about and We are really into you know. Truly some some days sports days with with a major void with no live sports. Look you and I've been doing this for a long long time. The fact of the matter is most of our audience over the years haven't really been immersed in the NBA playoffs the NHL Playoffs when the you know the capture player the NBA playoffs. When the wizards are playing yes but once that ends you know it can. It's it's a dead period from you know. Call it an early to mid may through really. I think Labor Day weekend now we have a lot to talk about when training camps starts in August but the high season for sports talk radio in most places. You know not all places. Most places is September through through essentially the super bowl with an extension because of free agency and then in the NFL draft through the end of April and then May June July. You pretty much have to make it up you know regardless of that true. You got a baseball game to talk about every day. Tommy how many times did we come in doing a show together and break down the game from the night before first of all? That's not what you do even though you're a bigger baseball guy than I am you you don't you. Don't watch games every single night. Start to finish. And it's not a there's not a significant audience for a recap of a May seventeenth game you know in Philly between the nets and the phillies there. Just isn't I mean something happen unless something happens in. There's more of a chance the possibility of something happening when when you've got a game almost every day that's true. It doesn't matter I mean I'll material is not necessarily based on Whether or not people will listen this different argument. Listen to and what material you have talk about. Our two different argument will like we always said you know in our post show meetings when we were doing a show together all right. We got a couple of ideas here but something more likely than not will happen today or tonight before the show tomorrow and it didn't have anything to do with a game that was played more often than not Anyway whatever I back to what I asked you know. This is totally totally fine. And by the way for for so many of us necessary tonight. It's GonNa be a great diversion. It's been a great diversion in the lead up to it tonight tomorrow night. You know Saturday. All Day will be nice. And I'm not taking a shot for those of you. That Hurt Adam. Schefter with me on the radio show last week or the week before. I can't remember now I I've I've said this a few times people in those hot spots New York in particular. They have a different perspective of this a totally different perspective. And I know this because I have friends that live in New York New Jersey family in New Jersey one of my best friends in Connecticut in Fairfield County Connecticut and New York suburb. That you know they know people that have this. They know people who've gotten very sick. They know people who have died from this. And maybe some of you do to living down here but up there it was. You know it's been just a completely different situation. So his perspective was that of someone who's living in the middle of of the worst of it When he thought that it was unseemly and bad optics for the NFL to move forward with the NFL draft. I'm fine with it. I'm excited about it tonight. Redskins will be on the clock. Pretty quickly Pretty quickly although speaking of Schefter just a few hours ago. This was his tweet over the last couple of weeks. The dolphins called the bengals on more than one occasion to see if Cincinnati would be willing to trade. The number one overall pick. The dolphins were told in no uncertain terms. No Cincinnati would not trade the pick and would stay. Put it number one. That is a clear reflection that Joe. Borough is the quarterback in this draft and that Tua and Herbert or major risks for the dolphins at five and by the way even if to over healthy I think burrows better not everybody agrees but the dolphins willing in and trying to be aggressive. Detroit all the way up to number one to take Joe. Borough Is a reflection. That Joe Boroughs the quarterback in this draft. Now I think I think I read somewhere from. I forget who tweeted it put? It was a reporter that the Dolphins Sea Joe Borough as Joe Montana. They think that he has that kind of impact. moving forward. And if you're if you're talking about so Montana you're you're talking about future super bowls. You know that down the lies so yeah. I think the dolphins you know I have Joe Borough far ahead of any other quarterback that they've gotten as well. I think that that makes sense to me anyway as a football fan. But it also brings this into the conversation because I was going to use it as a way I was GONNA talk about it with respect to the redskins but I'll start with the dolphins you know there was that period of time where the dolphins were not only bad but historically bad start the season they were Owen seven and it appeared is if they were truly trying to tank this season you know. They lost by UNGODLY SUMS. Like fifty nine to ten to the ravens they got beat by the Patriots. Forty three nothing teams. Were killing them until until the redskins came to town and barely beat them. They put Ryan Fitzpatrick into the game and if Fitzpatrick nearly beat the redskins they ran a two point conversion play. That was really sketchy because they put the guy that hadn't practiced the play into the game. For the two point conversion it was off kilter and the Redskins hold on held on for a win but the dolphins all of a sudden started trying to win games and they did win games you know. They ultimately finished the season over their final. I think ten games five and five actually over their final nine games. They finished five and four. They beat the Bengals in the Patriots in their last two games. Remember the knock. The Patriots added that to succeed. You know by beating them in Foxborough the Bengals game was an all time crazy comeback. They were down They won the game but they gave up a big lead. Nearly lost it and then one in overtime is crazy. Comeback by the Bengals but in the point is is that Miami you know they could have been in a position to take joe borough like they were there. It was there for the taking. But they didn't continue to lose and instead they they were. They were trying to win and they had fitzpatrick. They should've put Josh Rosen out there and should have benched fitzpatrick. I can only imagine what they offered the Bengals to get up to number one. You know it really. It must have been a boatload the I use that as a way to get into what I talked about a little bit earlier on on my radio show. Which was this the people out there that I argued with in November and December. When I was saying God no don't win. Games the best way for this to roll out the rest of the ways for Haskins to play well and to keep growing but for the Redskins to lose games and when we get down Tommy to the final three games and they're playing the eagles and the giants and the cowboys to close the season. Dina how many people called or tweet it or whatever and said Dude. This is ridiculous. This division rivalry time. You gotTa try to win these Games. There's no guarantee in the draft. Yada Yada Yada. They wanted to beat. The Eagles wanted to beat the giants. And the cowboys and the redskins are too if they had gone out and won those games which by the way they nearly did against the eagles the giants in per dealer if they had you know they could've finished five and eleven or God forbid six and ten and you know Bruce. Leaving may may bruce staying could have been back on the table Callahan. Staying could have been on the table and the redskins could have been sitting there with the seventh eighth ninth tenth. Pick you know if they'd if they'd gone ten and six for those that that that really got after me and do it every year when we have these conversations you gotta think about it on a night like tonight. You've got a chance to take chase young at number two overall. You're getting offered. According to a lot of different people big packages from teams like Atlanta. You know you're not in that position if you're drafting six or seven or eight by the way then you gotta watch the giants draft chase young those winds me nothing in the NFL. There's nothing that translates year to year anymore very little in this day and age in the NFL next year if they're four and eight and the redskins and by the way Haskins stinks. I don't think that's going to happen. And Trevor Lawrence is sitting. There is the obvious number one picker. The redskins are two in ten. Don't start telling me that you want them to win their final four games at that point. It's time to go get Trevor Lawrence. You know the the Miami's in a bind the guy that they want. They can't get 'cause they went out and won. A bunch of Football Games. Did Not matter. Let me tell you something. I am not in favor of manufacturing a roster and going into his season two tank. I am not in favor of that but once the season is underway. And you're halfway through the season and you know it's not going anywhere and then I am in favour of say. Let's not win the game. Let's not win the recipes games but I am not in favor of starting to seasons. An actual manufacturing team that that for all intents and purposes is built to lose with some teams to. I am not in favour that. But if you'RE GONNA lose and you find that out there in the season then you might as well lose big. I'm really referring much more to the Fan Perspective on this than I am the team perspective because as a fan first of all I wanted anything that guaranteed the Bruce Allen. Got fired you know. In the coaching staff was gone. And we could start from scratch. Secondly I knew that was potentially going to be the first or second pick in the draft and I wanted a chance at chase young but when it comes to teams. Look the the practical discussion here. Is that when you hear that you know teams are tanking? The players that are playing in these Games aren't trying to perform badly and lose the game. For the franchise taking is more of the franchise the executives in the franchise choosing to play their weakest players to you know To influence the outcome or to to enhance the probability of losing Miami. Could've done that. By starting. Josh Rosen instead of Ryan Fitzpatrick down the stretch. You know I agree with you going into a season especially in the NFL. Because anything can happen. You don't go in thinking about tanking But it's really like even the NBA discussion. Do you think any player in a game at the end of an NBA season on a team that is perceived to be tanking. You think that player's GonNa like dribble it off his leg on purpose. He's he wants a job next year. He wants to get paid next year. All the players in the game or trying their best But tanking comes from an organizational decision making standpoint of. We're not going to play our best players. You know we're GONNA sit. Our best players are best. Players are going to find their way to injured reserve. Or we're GONNA talk about playing younger players to see what we have to increase the probability of losing the dolphins the way they started that season it really did appear like no other team in recent memory that they were terrible and they didn't care because they weren't just losing NFL Games. They were getting their ass kicked until of course the redskins came to town and they nearly won that game but even after that game they got beat badly by buffalo and Pittsburgh and then all of a sudden they beat a bad team the jets. They beat the colts and they started. Fitzpatrick fits magic. Was Making Magic happen but the position it put him in tonight is to have to probably offer. You know an ungodly sum to move up. Get the player that may be had. They played Josh Rosen. They would have had the chance to draft without moving up but Cincinnati. How do you think that Which was guessing on this It season like the dolphins had where they could've easily coasted to much worse season and nobody would deny since they had started off poorly to begin with Everyone has was already prepared for the dolphins. Maybe losing all sixteen games. Even that was the discussion. I at at the time Do you think at some point when you've got a Ryan Fitzpatrick as a backup. The players in the locker room. The they look at the coaching staff. And they say you know. We can't keep going on like this. Is there a point where the dolphins change their direction on the field because of the players in the Locker Room Sort of demand. Yeah and you know what I think. There may have been something about that. The the the way when you just started saying that. I think there may have been a story about the dolphins pushing back or maybe their own coaching staff and the players sort of recognizing that fitzpatrick gave him a better chance in they all the sudden decided to become more competitive. Yes Tom I think. The answer to that is yes. Yeah I think a problem for for teams. If you've got a guy sitting on the bench who the players recognize the players usually recognize this. That can help you win. More than the guy you've got the game. It's hard to manage a whole season like that. We'll remember they gave it to Matt. It's one or two games like that but not a whole season. They traded Minkah Fitz. Patrick a young player a really good player early in the season which was really a head scratcher. Because even if you're tanking you know you're not gonNA trade you're really good players But last year and I forget exactly which week the the dolphins traded fitzpatrick for the steelers. You know they got a bunch of pics including the steelers first rounder. This year But Fitzpatrick was a really good player that they had drafted in two thousand eighteen. I think it was And Middle First Round you know high first round that was surprising but that was another indication. It's like Oh man. They are really thinking long term. They're just accumulating picks. Now Yeah I look when you only have sixteen of these to play and anything can happen in the NFL and teams looking around going man. This dude fitzpatrick lights it up in practice with the scout team or whatever. They're probably like we. We got a shot with him and the truth is they. Did you know they? They actually made some progress there at the end of the year. They were a competitive team. In even the Games they lost you know towards the end of the year they had you know chances. I think in some of those to win them but anyway MIAMI Isn't going to get the number one pick Cincinnati is going to do the right thing. They're gonNA take a you know a quarterback that I I mean I personally love. I think he is. You know I think he is a playmaker. You said Joe Montana. I you know in in today's game to me. He's you know a bigger version of Russell Wilson. You know he may not have the arm sprint of Aaron Rodgers but he makes plays like Aaron Rodgers e Gamer is a competitor. You know he went through the gauntlet like no college quarterback has ever gone through with. Lsu went through in terms of their schedule this year to win a national championship. He threw for sixteen touchdowns accounted for sixty five. Nobody's ever had a season like Joe. Borough just had lsu against again. You know the best conference in the country against one of the great schedules of all time you know they beat they all ultimately beat. I think it was five teams that were ranked in the top five seven teams that were ranked in the top ten. During the course of the year you know went to Tuscaloosa and beat Alabama Beat Clemson in the championship game crushed Oklahoma. In one of the great I mean one of the great performances by a a quarterback that we've ever seen borough threw seven touchdown passes and for four hundred ninety three yards and a semi-final game against Jalen hurts in Oklahoma like a good team. He was spectacular. I've thought all along that he was the best quarterback even with two even. If two were healthy he's going to get taken number one overall and that's going to lead to the redskins on the clock at number two and I think the red skins at number two tonight Despite you know some of the reporting of the last twenty four hours about Atlanta being interested in trading up to number two and teams making offers. I think there's like a ninety nine percent chance at this point. The redskins stand Pat Stay to intake chase young which I think is the right move. What do you think they do is they? I think they do too. I think they stay where they are. I've always thought all along that Ron Rivera is going to wrap the best defensive player that he can get his hands on in. Say Xiang But I think this is the second story for the Washington Redskins for their offense. They if anything illustrates to you. How screwed up this franchise is. Is that more? People were fancy air about trading getting rid of thread Williams. Then they do drafting take young. Well that's because chase young is pretty much a lock. There's no controversy around chase young. There's no did I mean other other than understanding in my view that there's no real analysis needed on this player. He's the best defensive talent they've had on their roster. They will have a hat on their roster. And Sean Taylor. He's a dominant pass rusher. Todd mcshay says he's the best pass rusher is evaluated since von Miller. The redskins haven't had a defensive player that have kept offensive coordinator's up at night for years. He's a freak athletically. He's a producer at the highest level in college football. He's versatile he can play almost anywhere along the along. The Defensive Line of scrimmage he'll elevate more people care about getting rid of tranquility but everybody knows what I'm just describing about chase young and they know the redskins are GonNa take him at number two. The Trent Williams thing is more of an unknown. Like what are they going to get for them who they gonNA deal him too? I think people are very excited about chase young. I just don't think that there's much to talk about. Everybody knows what he is talking about. Half the conversation leading up to the draft as weathered other redskins gonNA trip to know. That's that and it was. It wasn't about people looking. That's what people were talking about. Why people may have been talking about it because the bottom line is over the last couple of months people like you and me and others needed to sort of create some conversation and there are people that would take to a right now there are. I'm not disputing that. But I would say. I don't know that I've ever seen well first of all. You rarely have a number two pick overall and so when you're drafting you know. John Alan. It's seventeen or drawn pain at you. Know whatever he was eighteen. There's more of a conversation. Vida this guy that guy. This is obvious. I think I think the Redskin fan base significant majority are absolutely fine and excited about chase young being picked at number two. And that's what they want. You think you think I think it's a majority but that doesn't mean that hasn't been debate and conversation. They're just as much conversation as to whether or not they should trade they trade back they trade that number two and get more pissed. I did that at say young. Was this no brainer and Redskins fans didn't really care about getting rid of toy because chase young was a lock. I mean that's not that's not. That's not the case. There's been just as much debate about about drafting too or different just as much debate about trading number two pick and getting more pick. Okay first of all I can see that. There's been conversation about all of those things. Okay disagree I disagree with you that it somehow like a you know a polarizing conversation trade back or take chase young draft to a or take chase young. I think a significant majority of Redskin fans want the Redskins to stay at number two and take chase young. That's number one number two as we've gotten closer to tonight it's become. I think more clear to everybody. Even those that would prefer to or would prefer trade back that it's going to be chase young at number two. That's why the Trent Williams conversation of the last twenty four hours has become more interesting and perhaps more prevalent among redskin fans. I don't think that if there was a true debate as to whether or not the Redskins were gonNA trade back or draft chase young like there were wild reports like the redskins are in discussions with multiple teams about a deal to move back. That would be the number one conversation if that were real right now. Listen I'm just telling you I don't know how you can measure it. But the Trent Williams debate not just in the last twenty four hours but the track Williams debate about trading him as been going on. Since may for me that we have. We've not been discussed it. Well you've been talking about it for a year and a half once redskins fan. Once he didn't report for for many camp then. It became a source of debate among Redskins Fan. I mean nobody was debating who they draft at the number the number two pick. I didn't even know they were going to have the number two pick back then. But they've been talking debating about trading Frank Williams for almost a year. I'm just telling you that the last twenty four hours which is sort of how you started this particular segment of the conversation. The reason that the Trent Williams stuff is being discussed more in debated more among redskin fans is because there is this foregone conclusion that they're gonNA take chase young at number two so that ends that conversation. The rathan track Williams debate has become more. Prevalent is because this is fucked up France out. That's where you wanted to go with this bringing it on well. Of course we're here. Because there are fucked up franchise heavy never ten years ago the streets about drafting trend Williams. Now you can't wait to send him packing the best player on the roster and believe me I I'm with you. I would've traded him a year and a half ago but he is the best player on the roster the best player on the roster and and and fans are more excited about saying goodbye to 'em then they are saying hello to faith young. Let's get to the Trent Williams conversation here in a moment right after I tell you about stamps dot com. Because the Trent Williams conversation in our rundown today came second to the chase young conversation and the draft tonight. Quick WORD ABOUT STAMPS DOT com. Because we've Been promoting stamps dot com on the podcast periodically over the last year. And a half two or so but now is really the time if a small business in your operational or if you're an individual you can avoid crowds. You can socially distance. You don't need to go to the post office. You can send out letters and packages from your own home. We've been doing stamps. 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Let's get to the Trent William stuff in more detail because this is according to Tommy the story for Redskin fans in it is right now. Like I'm very into what the redskins ended up getting for Trent Williams. I think it's becoming more likely than not like significantly more likely than not that they get this deal done with somebody this weekend. Other recent reporting like over the last you know call it. Twelve anyway Less Carpenter reported that the skins are still seeking a second rounder He says therefore teams that are interested. The browns Vikings Eagles in jets profootballtalk says the eagles are not interested in trading for Trent Williams. The browns have gotten the most attention here recently. Burgundy blog who you know Most of you know okay. Burgundy Blogs Scott. Some big things right you know. He has And I know Burgundy blog really well and we communicate all the time and I know that he's got decent sources. He's gotten some things wrong. Has Gotten some things right over the years? He put out this tweet last night. You know late last night. Tommy how about this one? The following is a fringy unconfirmed rumor so take it for what it's worth. I'm told by a new source. With a convincing connection to the browns that a trade for Trent Williams he's done with redskins expected to receive a third or fourth round her in this draft and a second rounder in twenty twenty one Now he updated that this morning Saying that he thought it would be reported by now but he doesn't have an update that was as I don't know an hour or so ago I did work tirelessly and you know this because we started the podcast late this morning. trying to find out where the the latest on Trent Williams was. I was briefly under the impression that they were close to a deal. I do think that a deal is going to get done before the end of this weekend. I would love it. You know personally. The REDSKINS got a second next year's draft and a third in this year's draft from Cleveland as an example. I would take it and run with it. At this point I would I still think they've messed this thing up and I think they could have gotten more you know had traded him last year last summer. You know early in the season whatever way back in early twenty nineteen but lots of reporting on the Trent Williams stuff. But nothing at this point. Looks like it's done as we're sitting here recording right now But I think something will be done. What do you think about this whole thing? I think something will be done. I don't think it will be necessarily what the redskins hope for Because contrary you I think that the seeing that wants Williams is the one that has the leverage. I don't think the REDSKINS WANNA go into it arrested next season with. Troy's but you think it's no problem that we have a really you know know Leno. Let me be clear. I don't have a problem with it and I don't think that it would be the problem that you think it is. I don't know what the team thinks. I have no idea whether or not the team feels the same way. I think the redskins should hold out for the absolute best deal if they if they are demanding a second rounders compensation than I wouldn't take anything less than that and I'd be prepared for him to be on my roster and play for me next year and I don't think it would be that big of a deal ultimately in terms of disruption. That's what I've said I don't know how they feel though okay I think the trade is going to get done because I think the redskins when push comes to shove or go to feel the pressure to trade him and I've got to feel foolish that if they hung onto them for not taking a third round pick instead of a second round pick. I think they'll feel like idiots if if if they they wake up tomorrow morning and no. They could've had Trent Williams added their hair For just one round different so I I just think they're going to. I think the pressures on the Redskins as as it gets closer to make a deal if they get a second form. I will be happy about that if they get less than a second form. I won't be happy about it You weren't happy about it. Why because because it's not what you would have done or it's because it's not the best thing for the team both. Okay okay. I mean usually what's best for the team is what is sort of what my opinion is. You know So really I didn't know that well you should have known that after as many years as we've known each other I I want them to do well fan. I want them to do well. So what you want may not necessarily be. What's the best thing for the team? Nobody usually is. I can't think I know you told me. Yeah well I mean can you think of an example where I wanted something? That wasn't what was best for the team. I can't think of anything pants me neither. I don't know why you're making a big deal out of this. I mean I've never been anything other than I want the Redskins to win and I'm a fan of the team. Lifelong now no not. That's not my point. My point is that decision. Say you think they should make? Are The decisions that you think are best for the team? And if they don't make them then they're not the best thing for the team. I think the reds Trent Williams is okay. He's he's everybody's clear on that. Yes I absolutely believe to take it. Maybe a half step further that I could have been making decisions for this franchise over the last twenty years would would have been much better for this franchise if I had been the lead voice in decision maker of the Washington Redskins for the last twenty years they. They wouldn't have sucked as much as they have for the last twenty years whenever I've thought about what was best for the franchise it hasn't always aligned with what they've done clearly but I was always thinking what was best for them and I still am. Even though I've been very frustrated at times in recent years let me ask you a question. Don't you think that me in combination with maybe a you know a solid football guy could have done a better job than Dan and in the people that were involved here over the last Twenty Years Kevin? That's that's a low bar of course. That's that's that's a low bar that you can't even see air between the bar and the floor. How many people do you think could have done a better job over the last twenty years a lot of people and I would have been in that group with a lot of you? That are listening that we could have all done a much better job. I don't even know where this conversation is going or white got started All I know is that for Trent Williams a third. I'd be disappointed a second. I'd be happy second. Plus at this point like a second fourth second third. I'd be thrilled and I'd take it and run with it and not even think twice. I will always think if they don't get a first-rounder in this draft or next year's draft that they didn't get as much as they could have gotten had they been more decisive in smarter with more vision early on but at this point with the current context second. I'll be pleased second. Plus I'll be thrilled anything less Than those things. I'm going to be a little bit disappointed. Trent Williams is too good to accept a third round or less for him A second rounder by the way could be a third two thirds and by the way Cooley said yesterday for the second time and I think it's smart that they might end up taking a third now with conditional second rounder based on that player signing based on Trent William signing with that particular team that trades for him. Because that's the that's the problem right now. Tommy is a team. Doesn't want to spend a second rounder. And maybe even a third rounder for a player. They're not sure they're going to have more than a year. That's part of that. I I understand that if they done this Gary Player for two years under contract even though he wanted more money but go ahead. I'm sorry what was there a way you think to manage? Try Williams by this team going back A year to To keep him under contract for Your Organization for the next couple of years art. What did you have to get rid of him? No I would've extended him traded him number one because I thought they need to remove the whole thing but before that with two years left on his deal Jesse you know it would not have been unusual at all for a team wanting that player to play for them for more than two years to extend them at that point. It would not have been like this crazy thing. Which is hey. You've got two years left on the deal we're GONNA created we're GONNA give you a contract extension give you more guaranteed money. That would not have been crazy. At all but bruce had this thing about. He signed this deal. He's going to live up to the deal that he signed. It was sort of front. Loaded with guaranteed money so he knew the back end of it would be a little bit light. But Still Trent Williams has you know for most most people believe he's got a few years left of high quality football minimum. Yes and I mean Scott McLuhan has said on the radio that Threat Williams is better than anything that that you could get in this year's draft the radio to days ago I know so I just think you know for a really good organization. There would have been a way to keep Trent Williams happy and manage your your salary cap to So I mean this this this screw up even goes back beyond the point where you should have traded. It's funny because there were a couple of players that BEF- well before their contract was up they extended and I thought it was smart. They did it with Ryan Kerrigan. They did it with Jordan Reed. I thought it was smart at the time. 'cause read at that. Particular point would have been a huge free agent target and would have gotten a massive contract and they they never let him get to that point. There's something about the relationship with Trent Williams. That's been bothersome to the franchise for a while now And they decided to play hardball with them again. If you'd been very realistic and and more self aware about your organization at the end of that twenty eighteen season it was time to reboot the whole thing. Nuclear option with Alex Smith Trade. Any pieces that you had that can bring back future picks and Future. You know Contributors when you were ready to win Ryan Kerrigan and Trent Liam's would have been at the top of that list. You know in terms of players that you could've traded in Ryan Kerrigan's not tradeable now really with one year left on his deal and after the first season of his career where he got injured and wasn't as productive at the end of two thousand eighteen. You probably could've gotten a second rounder for Ryan Kerrigan. You definitely in my opinion could have gotten a I plus for Trent Williams right at the. You know at the Beginning of the two thousand nineteen NFL CALENDAR. But they you know we know what they were thinking. At the time they were thinking that They were close and that they had chance for a quick turn around. And that's why going back to thank God. They didn't win some of these games at the end with Callahan. Coaching his ass off which he did he really did. He coached his ass off. The team was better with him. Coaching it than it was with Jay. Gruden I don't think there's any way to debate debate. That but imagine if they had you know somehow beaten the packers they were in that game beaten. The Eagles beat the giants. And all the sudden. They got a five game winning streak. Going into the season finale. Against the cowboys you know how different it would have perhaps felt to Dan Snyder. You know with the quarterback playing pretty well and all the sudden the coach because you know they were at Owen Five. It wasn't dance fault in. It wasn't Bruce's fault. It was Jay's fault so they jay and they had high expectations that Callaghan would prove them right and to a certain degree. Callahan proved them right in terms of more discipline. Simplify things you know. And and and definitely the more disciplined part And you could be a better team but you know the bottom line is three and thirteen in the games they did win they could have lost to but if they had beaten Green Bay in Philly and New York and they had a five game winning streak and all the sudden you know could have been a completely different story because they wanted to believe what they believed the end of two thousand eighteen and that is they believed what they saw at six and three was out with. Alex Smith was a playoff team and NFC east contending team and they couldn't get off that until finally they were. You know Getting blown out by the Vikings in the jets at home late in the season and finally they realized it and Dan realized it and got rid of Batman. Bruce Allin Anyway Okay. So so what about the draft overall for the redskins will finish up with Trent Williams? Finish up with trump williams. What's your prediction? My prediction is he's GonNa be traded for what Two-thirds third this year to third next year. Okay that's seems pretty reasonable by the way Dan. Patrick said this yesterday on his radio show trends going to cost you a lot but you might look doing both I was just told that the redskins will trade Trent Williams and get a number one pick and then use that pick on an offensive line and my source said that still believes chase. Young is going to Washington. I hope Dan Patrick's right. I don't think he's going to be right Boy He sounded definitive there. Though didn't he sounded like he had a source. Told Him Trent Williams is GonNa go for a first rounder and they were gonNA use that. First Rounder to take an offensive lineman after they'd taken chase young at number two. It would be great if Patrick was right on this I don't think he's GonNa be right. You're two thirds is in the realm. I I hope it's a second. I hope it's a second this draft I really do. I hope it's a second plus like a second third or second of four. It wouldn't surprise me if it's two thirds it wouldn't surprise me if it's a third rounder with you know something in next year's draft that might be you know a second rounder. could be contingent on Trent Williams signing a long term deal with that team But I think something's going to happen The end of this draft I do I'd be. I'd be really surprised if we get to Saturday night. And a deal. I'd be surprised if we get to the end of tomorrow night and a deal hasn't been done. I was pretty convinced that we were going to be able to start this podcast with a deal Done but we weren't able to do that so stay tuned to team ninety to everybody on twitter. Because I think something might happen even today I i. I'm ready for it to end. Tommy I just don't want them to take peanuts for a player of his caliber You know an and maybe Rivera's like I don't really give a shit This guys you know. Sky's a pain in the ASS. Dan doesn't like him. And you know a third a future third done. Let's move on. He may be at that point. I don't know if Ron Rivera can start off. With the first significant move of his franchise to sit draft tastes young and get a first round. Pick back for Trent Williamson the same day that would be caused celebrations redskins fan. No doubt and I'd give Kyle Smith some credit on that too. You know I I do believe. Let me just mention this one thing. I don't know if I've mentioned it before. I think there are definitely a players most of the players who are rooting for Trent who respect Trent who really liked Trent Williams including players in that locker room guys like Morgan Moses. Who really think that. Trent was speaking for them. In some ways about the redskins training staff medical. Whatever it was I also think that there are people in the front office. That can't wait to see him gone. I think they felt betrayed By what happened last year especially for a player that they were loyal to when he was going through. Suspensions weed problems So they're sort of the mix there but I I think it would lean because I think people in management are ready to move on from Trent to them. You know getting a deal done this weekend even though they wanNA get T- T top price for I think I think ultimately it's that that wins out and there's interest to there should be interesting in Trent Williams. You know if you're a team that is close to contending believe in Cleveland that you're left tackle. You need a left tackle and you've got a chance to compete for the playoffs. Look Tampa needs a left tackle. I I think I mentioned this yesterday. The report from Gentle Lane at ESPN about the bucks. You know wanting to trade Jay Howard to to Washington and that was on the table two months ago. It's just not likely to be on the table now. Tampa just doesn't have any salary cap space To add a Williams to their roster. You Minnesota would be interesting mentioned this before you know. Trent Williams was one of kirk cousins most vocal public supporters and the Vikings have a left tackle and Riley reiff. Who's a good player? But isn't Trent Williams But they don't have a lot of cap space either So we'll we'll see anyway The the news could break while we're sitting here recording the podcast. Who knows I mean that would be? That would be a great day for the redskins. General Manager. Huge huge like that. They don't have a gentleman. Well okay so the but they do. Because Kyle Smith is the defacto general manager really. Well that's Doug Williams. I thought was no matter before I know he's not anymore. He doesn't have the same job title but he has. Its out title. That Kyle Smith has yet. He does but Bruce Allen was in the organization okay. Now Bruce Allin isn't in the organization. So Kyle Smith its. Em but he's not really TM. He doesn't have a general manager title. No He's got a vice president of player personnel title. Which is you know the title that others have had and other organizations that had been you know sort of defacto. Gm's now we heard last week. That Kyle Smith could get the GM title after this weekend but we also heard in that same story written by the post last week that Up until a month ago some people around the League thought that Ron Rivera was going to hire a general manager after the draft from outside the organization but that he's been more impressed with Kyle Smith working with them here over the last couple of months at more likely than not. Kyle Smith will get that title. You do know that. Most general manager hires take place after the draft. It's hard to get that done if you don't get it done right when the season ends you know I i. I understand that you know maybe the Redskins do higher gentlemen. Here's couldn't leave happy. The son of somebody somebody who's related to somebody who works for the teams. They might want to try to avoid the relatives route to for once exactly very good. All right. What else what else you got trump Williams is that it. You'RE GONNA ask me another question. I don't remember I something about the draft. Well again the rest of the redskins draft. Yeah I know you you you live by the notion that Draft the best player available. Although I think somebody was on your show I think or someplace. Where said sometimes you draft for need and not the best player available if the Redskins if at the end of the day at the end of the redskins strap? You're adding up the side of the ball that you want them to pick talent on. Wouldn't it be better if the drafted majority of offensive talent rather defensive talent? Yes yes however you are right. I want a team that has as many needs as the redskins have to draft the best player on their board but in the event of say You know a player that has a slightly higher grade over another player and that player with this slightly higher grade is a punter or a player defensive tackle and the other one that is slightly lower is a quarter is a cornerback or a safety aura. Left tackle. Then it's fine to take that player we if it's that close but I do not want them to reach for players that are much lower on their board to fill a need because the redskins. Here's the bottom line Tommy with the redskins organization And roster they have had a desperate need over e over the years to have great players. Let's call them a players. They just haven't had many of them. Trent Williams has been one of their eight players over the years. They need a players. Who are the players right now on their roster on offense? They don't have won a player Brandon share from might be as close as you could get to a player right now. Offensively defensively You do have I think potentially in a player in in Allen in pain in sweat but you wouldn't say they're they're already. I think Landon Collins is close to a player you need really good players. There is in a position on the roster where you can't really upgrade for the most part. Okay I agree with all that I think there's some place in between slight and significant Grades where you you can draft the player and I just don't see how they're going to be able to make any kind of judgment on Dwayne Haskins two seasons with the roster of offensive talent. They have now. It's funny. Did we talk about that on Tuesday or not because I talked about that yesterday with Cooley? A little bit. I think you're right about that. I've changed my mind a little bit on that like I've said over and over again. I WANNA see Dwayne next year. I WANNA see him start sixteen games and I want to know at the end of twenty twenty if they have something there or not and I think what you're saying is what I've sort of come to the conclusion on a little bit. And that is if they don't give him more weapons It's GonNa could. We could be sitting here at the end of the twenty twenty season talking about not knowing and and it not being fair to have a real conclusion on Haskins unless he super great or super terrible but think about it no weapons offensively a third offensive coordinator. Essentially for his eighth start and no off-season ability potentially because of what's of what we're going through. So yeah I I. If that's what you were saying I think I agree with you on that. Yeah I just think it's going to be awfully difficult To to to to determine if Dwayne Haskins play at an elite level or at least a winning level without war I mean they have they have less. It seems like they have less offensive weapons now than they had you know last season. I mean so. They better than awfully lucky in this draft offensive side of the ball. Well they don't have a lesson they had last year. Where do they have less? They don't have a tight end. Well they didn't really I mean Vernon Davis really wasn't playing anyway yet but now they don't have anybody. Okay nobody no but theoretically maclaurin and Harmon and Sims junior in a second year you know if they grow in their better you could. You could potentially get some improvement there. You'll you may get some improvement just based on coaching and on a quarterback entering his second year. Maybe I don't know I you're right. I mean guy. Sippy were healthy for sixteen games could make them much improved But no they don't have a lot offensively they are really you Cooley. Said yesterday on the podcast. He said Terry MMA corns and number. Two you know. He's number one here and he might be a number one down the road but they need a receiver and it's one of the reasons they went after Amari Cooper. They probably agree with his position. Number corn does seem to check off a lot of boxes. You know speed Hands playmaking ability yards after the catch. And by the way. Not your typical White Nino diva wide receiver. there's a lot to like about Terry maclaurin but you know we get wrapped up into this because we're comparing them against what they have and what they've had recently But no you're right offensively. It would be best if they came out of this with you know left tackle answer and by the way if they trade. Trent Williams I still think that they. Will you know that the starting left tackle will be Will be a free agency signing like Donald Penn potentially adjacent peters. I don't think that they're gonNa Start Jaren Christian at left tackle. I don't think on Cornelius. Lucas is necessarily a starting left tackle. Although I don't really know about Lucas I would think that the Redskins have held off. Re-signing Donald Penn or going after a Jason Peters Because they want to Trent Williams thing resolved I doubt that they're able to draft their starting left tackle. And they've got major offense of line issues you don't you don't know who your left guard is for sure. You know and Morgan Moses. He's okay they've they've got offensive line issues. They get tight end issues they. Have you know the biggest issue is? You still aren't sure quarterback most people aren't and you know even me being optimistic about join. I'm not sure about join right now. Hopefully the general manager will be very successful when it comes to drafting offensive talent. They don't have general manager. Okay By the way one quick thing about number two overall Jay Glazer had this report yesterday. That Atlanta was you know Very interested in trading up fourteen spots to get to number two Josina Anderson spelled out. A team didn't mention the team that had made sort of a bona fide. Complete offer Said the Redskins have heard offers for number two? And I'm glad they're listening now. Glazer's report essentially was that the Redskins weren't interested but it does It does reflect an interest from Atlanta. I would think given that they have Matt Ryan and that Joe Borough would be gone and that you don't have to go up to number to get to a tongue of low a more likely than not that they're going up to get chased young and we've talked about that a couple of times over the last month like why aren't we hearing more about teams wanting to trade up to number two to draft chase young or even to trade up to number one two t t to to draft chase young and Atlanta. You know you'd you'd have to trade a hell of a lot to move from sixteen to two and the fact that they were into doing that you know according to reports and I think it would have been to get chase young. You know that tells you just how much a team and a guy like Dan Quinn? Who's a defensive guy what they see in chase young? You know it's it's it's it's enough you know that. Most of the draft experts have chase. Young is one of the highest evaluated defensive ends ever but when you you got an NFL team that is willing to move up fourteen spots and probably trade three or four number ones to do it. it says something. I think about young. And it's sort of the first indication that we've had from other teams at least based on what we know that That you know there's there's that kind of interest in Asia as well there should be based on what we've read and seen of about about safe young. I mean you know and he I mean he changed his name that generational talent because that's usually to description you hear promise everybody. I'm curious Xavier problem for me. Okay yeah because I don't know why people seem to be like Xabi asked me about it the other days like do you have a problem with the generational talent description. And I'm like no. Why and he said well. A lot of people seem to have a problem with it. I didn't know that it's an easy way to describe how good he is or how good people think he's going to be well. This is how the people who do this for a living than analyzed drafts. They'd come up with their asked and get paid to analyze drafts. That's essentially the way they've described their evaluation. They haven't evaluated somebody this high in many many years so that would be you know what's generation ten years. I think it's more than that. I think it's twenty. Five is a generation twenty five years. Well then maybe it isn't inaccurate. Tommy how much is what is the generation. I thought it was. I'm asking You I don't I don't know I'm looking it up. Oh you're right. Average period twenty plus years in some cases depending on what you're describing Can Be up to thirty years. The average period for a generation is considered to be around thirty years. Okay so when we describe The redskin fan base of losing generations. That's inaccurate. It's only lost one generation. More likely than not right. Yes it has one Senate race okay. Bavin lost generation while they add because some of those generations have died. Yeah all right. I'm GONNA give Cooley some credit here. You heard him. If you're listening to the podcast yesterday. Say this about the tight ends in one tight end in particular in this draft the tunings to know our coq met out of Notre Dame. He'll be a first round or he could go higher than people think he's projected to go. I ran just you know. There's not one mock draft that I've seen with coal committed the first round in fact I. I've seen several mocks with him. Lasting all the way to the Redskins pick in the third round. Now I promise you that's not happening okay. So that's one of those things I'm gonNA write down right now coal commit. You've got no worse than what mid second? Yeah I met going on the second upset worst. Okay good he's it's just amazing for me to watch a guy like matt play at Notre Dame and then what happened last year where The kid in Detroit now for my concern went all the way. Hopkinson went to seven player at the time Cooley I think He may have been right about this because Mel Kiper this morning put out his final mock draft and one of the players. He moved into the first round of his mock draft was notre dame tight end coal commit. He's got him going thirtieth overall the Green Bay and he he writes commits the tight end with a chance to go in the first round And he sees it as being a perfect guy for Aaron Rodgers Coolies done this before with players that he's evaluated that have flown up the board. You know from a You know on Draft Day and have gone higher than than Than sort of the the mock drafters had it. So if you had sort of hope coal a coal commit the Notre Dame tight end would be there for the redskins in the third round. It give you believe Cooley if you believe Mel kiper there's no chance of that happening Now there are couple players that want mentioned before this draft starts because I usually do it every year. Anyway that I that I sort of like in that I think are going to be good players. Starting with the the the truck you know wide receiver players that I think are gonna be much better than where they get drafted. I've been mentioning K. J. Hamblur for awhile now. I just think that he's you know. Every time I watched him play last year he looked like the next coming of deshaun Jackson. He had a high drop rate as a pass. Catcher at Penn State played on a bat offense to with not a very good quarterback last year. So that may have been part of it but to me. He looks like a guy. That's going to be a difference maker at the pro level. I don't think he'll be there in the third round But if he were sitting there at sixty six men. Would I be excited if the REDSKINS had a chance to draft K. J. Handler I Love Tyler. Johnson from Minnesota mentioned him many times. You know in a in a draft where you don't have a chance on pro days and you don't have a chance on interviews and all that stuff and you're just going by the tape if you just go by the tape with Tyler Johnson. There's no way he should go in the fourth or fifth round which is where he's projected to go. He should be much higher than that. But if the redskins have a chance for him somewhere in the third round. That would be exciting to me. He's big and he's a producer. Big Time producer In a tough league with tough defenses over the last couple of years in every big game for Minnesota he produced. We talked about him a little bit yesterday. All right Coolies always asks me about the running back. I know I talked a little bit about him yesterday. But let me be more definitive today. 'cause in the last few years their backs. I've really liked and wanted to see the redskins. Select last year was single. Terry from Florida Atlantic. I was on him before the draft and he turned out to be a really. Good player is a rookie in Buffalo. The year before that I loved Kerryon Johnson and the Redskins wanted to draft Carrie Johnson in the second round that the lions picked him and then the redskins traded back and got guys now. Johnson's been injured a lot. And that was a concern with him coming out of Auburn But when he's been healthy he's been a pretty productive guy in recent years the guys this year in the draft like I. I don't agree that de'andre swift should be the first back taken. I'd only Jonathon Taylor. Should either I think. Jk Dobbins or Clyde Edwards Hilar- should be the first back taken I think Dobbins is a star By the way unbelievable games in big games for Ohio state and Edwards layer was the same thing for Lsu but looking further down the board. You know mid rounds where the redskins late in the draft might have a chance by the way before that I liked Zac moss at a Utah. I really like. Aj Dylan at a Boston College too. But looking further down. I WanNa give you a name of a player I like Jalen rigor to is as the receiver if I didn't mention that That before from TCU In the same way that I like Hamblur but he's going to be gone. A lot of people not projecting him to be a first rounder So they're the college football gets played. Pretty Much Tommy. Everyday of the week except for Sunday and Monday You start on Tuesday night with a mid American conference game and then Wednesday night usually get another mid American conference game. The MAC has been the league. That's played on television on Tuesday and Wednesday nights for years. And if you bet football like I do you watch a lot of MAC football. Somebody give you a name of a player that I think is going to be a pro running back and a much bigger contributor on a team. Then he's projected draft status which is fifth sixth round or undrafted. Free agent. His name's Jonathan Ward. He played for Central Michigan I think he he I think he's had a pretty good indie combine As well but if you just Google Jonathan Ward you'll be able to find his highlight reel somewhere But Jonathan Ward was a dynamic back in that league. That's that has a lot of offense and not a lot of defense. I understand that okay. If you know the Mac you know you get a lot of forty eight forty two games and Jonathan wards a bigger version of like Alvin Kamara. I'm not saying he is Alvin Kamara. I'm not saying he is Christian. Mccaffrey he plays like the two of them. He's just bigger because he's probably six feet. Maybe he's not exactly six feet. He's well over two hundred pounds but he has that kind of speed that kind of vision and that kind of pass catching ability. He's a phenomenal receiver. He's a big time yards average yards per carry guy and just scored from everywhere on the field when you watched him play so Jonathan Ward Central Michigan lateness draft. Somebody's going to get a guy that's going to play in the NFL and contribute and then real quickly in the to Maryland guys. I think I've spent a little bit of time talking about them. I do like McFarland. A couple of you guys tweeted me and said so. You really don't like McFarland. It's not that I don't like Anthony McFarland. I think McFarland's got a chance to be a big time back. And by the way he's got ridiculous speed and had some of his better games when he was healthy and he wasn't healthy a lot against good teams like Ohio state in two thousand eighteen. Where you had that ridiculous. Two hundred and seventy yard game or whatever with all those touchdowns when Maryland nearly knocked off Ohio state. I think McFarland's got a chance. He's been injury prone. It's part of his problem but the guy that I really liked now for. Two years is Giovane. Leak leak is one of those guys. Tie Johnson who came out of Maryland played for the Lions last year as a back in a kick returners well leaky similar to tie Johnson. Except he's a much better vision runner. I mean if you watched Maryland football. Most of you didn't leak was basically you know a good bet to get a chunk play every single time. He touched it against anybody. He averaged seven point two yards per carry last year and had eight touchdowns on a bad team. He also was a ridiculous. One of the best in the country. Kickoff returns now. I don't know what he would be a punt returner. I don't even know if GIOVANE LEAKS GONNA get drafted. I will tell you that Mike Loxley. I think agrees with me on leak. He wouldn't say it you know and he wouldn't pick one or a over the other with McFarland leak but every time I brought up leak. He said there's there's a guy and I talked to him the last time I had him on the show and he said he's a pro football player. I think Giovane leak you know. It's interesting about Maryland. Tommy because of you know what they recruit from. They haven't had good teams. They haven't had good offensive lines or defensive lines and offensive lines in particular. Been a real problem for them. In the big ten and quarterback play has been a big problem for them too but they've had a lot of skill position players. You know over the years because of you know the area in which they recruit from I mean the WCTC in particular you get these players and they ended up becoming NFL players and Java tied Johnson. Last year most people thought he was an undrafted. Guy Is free agent at best. I think he got taken in the seventh round by Detroit. He made the roster. They've had talented skill position players over the years. And leak and McFarland are the two Offensively that I think are going to be in the league. Next year I think leaks ultimately going to be a better pro than McFarland. I like McFarland. I like leak more Jonathan Ward though Out of central Michigan. Just remember his name. I think he's GonNa get picked In this draft and maybe earlier than most people think all right What else you got anything. I got nothing else. I'm looking forward to watching this this Tv show tonight this NFL draft and let's face it. We're rooting for things to get screwed up for right right. That's what we're rooting for. That would be kinda funny if like you know. I don't know how they get screwed up when you can just use your cell phone and call in the order like I. I don't that doesn't make any sense to me. So you know the Redskins the the lions around the clock at number three and we don't have their pick in and the times run out they. They're having technical issues. We'll do their phones work. 'cause if their phones work. Can't you call in the order? Kate you call in the pick. I think you can. I agree I would be surprised if we have any major problems tonight but it would be fun if we did. Yes and let's hope. Let's hope the The family give give Roger Sound booing. That would be great. That'd be great The Patriots sign. I'm just looking to see if we missed any stories here while we've been doing this. Patriots Sign Marquee Salih the Jacksonville Wide Receiver That's it doesn't look like much of anything else And big stories about the bengals getting offered a ton from Miami Miami. Clearly you know is looking at Tua and Herbert and saying we'd much rather much rather have joe borough can't blame them I think if if players fall like if there's a you know an Erin Roger Situation or a Warren Sapp situation tonight with the draft with a player you know that's that starts falling. It wouldn't surprise me if it's too because of the injury concerns wouldn't surprise me at all. all right man have a good weekend okay boss. All right Everybody Back Tomorrow Obviously. Recapping night one of the draft.

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66: Franz Tost: I dont think Im hard on drivers  but I expect to see results

F1: Beyond The Grid

1:07:22 hr | 1 year ago

66: Franz Tost: I dont think Im hard on drivers but I expect to see results

"I'm French toast. The principle of could reiterate also onto. You are listening. Meet beyond decorate. Hi Everyone Tom. Clarkson here and welcome to be on the grid presented by the new bose noise cancelling headphones seven hundred. Now with Frank Williams is no longer playing an active role Williams. F One. My guest. This week is believe it or not the second longest serving team principal in the pit lane. He got the nod from Dietrich Dietrich Massachusetts to lead Toro back in two thousand six since when he's overseeing the teams transformation from bit-part player to Bona Fide Formula One constructor instructor. I'm talking of course about France. Toss France has been with Toros. Oh for fourteen years but its first contact with F one came earlier first with Ralf Schumacher. And then we've BMW. When they were engine partners with Williams and like so many Australians involved in motor sport it was a fascination with one thousand nine hundred seventy world championship and rent that got him interested in the first place? When I first suggested that we sit down and do this podcast? France was surprised that people would be interested in his story. But as you're about to find out his career has been fascinating ride with many unexpected twists and turns. He raced against Stephan. BELOFF for goodness sake and I bet that you didn't know that our conversation meandered effortlessly from one topic to another including that famous Sebastian veteran monster in two thousand eight on Torsos Nose Day of days to France management approach with Red Bulls younger drivers. I hope you enjoy friends. Thank you for coming on on the show. It's it's lovely to have you on now. You are the second longest serving team principal in the pit lane when I say that does that surprise Z.. Not so much because when I look around many people might know since long and they are also still in here regarding the team principals. I'm other where I'm the second longest working team principal in Formula One. But maybe something good something not so good. I don't know I don't care about such statistical things I appreciate that but does did you stop just for a second. Take any pride from that because a lot of guys have come and gone in the time that you've been here York but there are different reasons behind this his and maybe I was lucky That I am still here in Formula One and I like Detroit by say I love to work in Formula One and hope to continue another couple of years. Let's cast our minds back to two thousand and six fix your first season. What was it light back then as a team boss because of course Flavio Briatore he was still around by then? There were Ron indices and all these guys were still around. Was it a very different atmosphere thing in the in the team. Principal meetings compared to now it depended on the topics There are a lot of discussions. It was two thousand eight two thousand nine when we were at arbitration with the raw because the original philosophy from reporter foyer was that we should educate young drivers from the red bull driver and be Um We should use all the synergies with red bull technology and this is how everything started. I remember doesn't then six. We had the car from red bull which raised the before. It was to be ten inch in in there and we had the air restrictor because this was the time when the others used to be eight and it was a good racing we were competitive then. Two Thousand and seven. We had the first call. It now. Report Technology Chassis. But you always had another engine in there because and red bull originally Ferrari contract and when Iranian we came there they decided to change the Renault and therefore we got this. Ferrari inch in red bull racing was out with a wrench in it with the Ferrari differ. We never had completely the same car it. It wasn't a pay congress. Different Part Two thousand seven and then special in two thousand eight. We were successful. Maybe for for some of the other team principals to successful and then they started to work against US Myopia in an we did everything right. In those days we match to the regulation and then I remember back in principal meetings when they were quite aggressive. If that words words me but to be honest I didn't care and I remember once when then is idea. We were close to our listeners. At him you are not the church decided not. You don't decide anything and I didn't care about them to be honest. The Piranha Club Brandon is always talk about Formula One being the Piranha Club Disney. I love hearing you. You talk about two thousand eight. I remember Mark Webber and David. Gilford saying that your car was much better than echo in two thousand and eight of course Sebastian battles on our cowers good. It was a new car if it was a very good car but we hit. Those are very very good driver in comparison to us. Well it. Let's talk about how much more than two thousand eight. What are your memories of that weekend? I the foil when we came to monster thought not that. We have a good car because for Incheon was quite strong and from the site as I mentioned before we had a very very good level and I expected that we were competitive and when it started raining on Friday then we started the drovers. Please go out because the weather forecast though it does that. It's probably wet on Saturday as well as on Sunday and I know Montana is not easy under conditions because especially in the wake of the trek less most devote and to the water does not go away. You know comes over with then pick and we had to the drivers. Please do as many laps drive. Different lines look where the water is standing and that you are prepared for the qualifying for the race and then just remembering qualifying when it came to the end and Sebastian was in front and then I saw a mother's went out with intermediate's than I was clear and I remember remember saying to Gerhardt. They have no chance because under these conditions you can go out with the intermediates then. Sebastian wasn't board position. mm-hmm and Sundays. I hoped that there is not a standing start. It was understood behind to safety which think was also important because it's always a risk to start under conditions and Sebastian drove fantastic. I was immediately in front. And then you know he hit a free freer in front of him and is very very important. Heater of real really betrays. How cool was the under pressure? He was he was very cool. It was very it. Looked like he wasn't from London's ten fifteen years and and I think the emotions came late but during driving He was just focused and concentrated and not too much communication by radio. Only the most important things and this showed that he was really really very concentrated. It did not making any mistake and therefore he could win this race. I'll never forget a couple of weeks after that Monza race I went and climbed named Mount Fuji With Sebastian. I had to get your permission and you looked at me. And you went. If he's unable to drive the next race I will kill. You are members saying that because Sebastian just overnight to to at least to the world at large overnight he'd become sensation but it wasn't a surprise to you. There reason why I was worried about the future mountainous I was there and uh-huh it can be very cold up there and it's frozen. The ground is frozen and I was was there in August and it was really very cold over there. We went up we started. I think at five o'clock in the morning and waking up they are. I don't remember eight o'clock or something like this and it was around half an hour. blue-sky fantastic view. It was really early am believable. Despite Rama were there and within another ten minutes. Clouds came. And you couldn't see anything anymore and I'm coming from the mountains. I know what to do then but if people were there and if they are unexperienced an experienced then it's dangerous it's not steep but if the floor is frozen and you don't know where the goal can become interest trust and now I think it's people are not allowed to go up to the futterman anytime I think. It's only a a separate special periods over the year. I think shots in September. Yes yes because it's so interesting so many people died over there and this is what they're meant. Go up there. Can I tell you if he is being insured. Afterwards or somewhere eastern. We will have both together big problem Frans. Can I tell you what he did at the top so we got to the top and we climbed at night because Sebastian wanted to see the sun. Come up and it was beautiful out say but it was really cold and he said to me how do we get down and I suppose we go down the way we've come up and he said no it's too cold it'll take too long. He skied the screen. So we literally just jumped off the top of Mount Fuji and skied the vertical screen. And I oh my goodness what am I gonNa tell South and this is what immediately at in my ahead thinking about such activities because us so you can be injured so fast over there. And that's the danger incher once more. It's not they're not stones. It's not no it's grass over there but if it's so cold and if everything is frozen. It's implied template insurance. Do you love the Japanese culture because you say you were there in August. During the summer break I lift their one year. In Charlie's Ralf Schumacher was there when and live from London and td racing and relief there over a year and it was fantastic. I like Chapman. It's a very very interesting country. It's a very good culture. I must say the chaplain is from food for me. Is the best all over the world. Where did you live when you're in Japan? WE LIFT IN MONACO. What bastiat achiever Yamana crack wholesome? They mashed. You're GonNa have after give me you're GonNa have to help me. Where is that relative to Tokyo? That's that's on the lake. It's just on the foot on the foot of the format in its Fifteen minutes from the racetrack from the food. cheery strike. It's Temba contemporary. That's why we stay for that talk. Okay well what a weekend in Austin. That was incredible scenes after the race as Lewis. Hamilton celebrated elaborated wrapping up title number. Six the man is a phenomenon and each week we see such skill on track. And if you're anything like me you're always hungry angry for more well. Luckily for US Amazon web services can help F. One uses machine learning and predictive modeling built on. Aws To create critical race performance statistics mate race predictions and give fans insight into the split second decisions made by teams and drivers that means F. One can pinpoint how a driver Chris performing and share these insights over television and digital platforms all over the world with. Aws You can rely on the pit strategy battle function to show. Oh you the predicted gap between drivers after pitstops as it analyzes how successful each drivers strategy will be while the battle forecast function keeps you at the heart of the action and developing driver battles during the race and it's all powered by. Aws is incredible machine learning and data analytics. So next time. You're watching your a favor f one driver and wondering how they get those awesome insights just remember. AWS's how find out more AWS DOT com forward slash F born insights. That's AWS dot com slash f one insights now. Let's get back to friends now. You mentioned earlier when we were talking about Muanza you mentioned Gerhard Gerhard Berger who of course was a shareholder in the team early on. Yes isn't he. What what was Gerhard? Like to work with because you'd also worked with him when you were at BMW as well. Yeah I know. It's a long time since formula. Four Times inhumane and I head and have very very good relationship with Gerhard and it was such a nice time and we worked together and it was also very successful time and get this person you know. When he was driving from he was in in those days one of the fastest drivers from the natural speed he was not slower than he was also sundance faster than him? Bat Part of course. He's he's combat from the racetrack. was maybe professional as as it should have been anti interior. Maybe some other things in his but the working working together with Gerhard was fantastic. How integral was Gerhard's in the creation of terror? So so because I know that there was some people during when Dietrich Magistrates bought the. What was the Jaguar team there? There was some people so saying dietrich don't do Torah so it's hard enough to win inform one with one team let alone to G. Think Gerhard was instrumental. Clean persuading matter shits to do the torso thing a close friend of Mattis Sheets and when Gerhard trained us in two thousand seven then Be discussed everything together with Matthew Sheets. All the different steps and but matter sheets was involved in any decisions regarding as it's the case also now it's not that we make any major decisions this without the involvement of mets. We're going to come on to current day tomorrow so but I did just want to investigate your history. Rian Passion for Motorsport. Because I don't know how many people know this but you are. You were the Australian Formula Ford Champion What is it what are we talking? One thousand nine hundred eighty the three three and then he went onto f. three and things now don't be modest but tell me about your racing career because I think a lot of people listening to this may not be aware that you were a driver. That's good. I was rolling around here No it was you know I was always passionate about the motor sport. I think everything started start with your because I was a big fan and everything. Read everything about your hunger green tea and wanted to dre racing and Formula Ford and raised in in from Fort and I must say in those days in in Austria there was really good from senior and white. The Leitner build up this formula racing field. We had National Championship Racing International. And they're always twenty twenty five cast on the starting thirteen grit and it was a fantastic diamond. I remember when I was last. Ostrom made some friends of mine. And there's a tape. What's going on with the western Western motorsports seen this to me? Does Norman monitors attains they have less money than us. Because I remember Bake Jake. My parents had to pick me up three times because I ran out the fuel coming home and when I called him at two o'clock in Virga police can be up the fuel and then they came to me put in fuel then with my transport I went home and then my mother said can you not put one hundred chilling on the side just for serve as at my. I did already but about the next race bieber. Lebron starting right but it's not only me to us the same with all the others and it was always in those days. We didn't sleep in hotels or slept at the racetrack were there. We came there Wednesday first and then the complete start ingred of former for drivers. We were sleeping transport as this. It was normal but then at three then came I mean. Do you think friends if you had a decent sponsor behind you or if you'd had a break you could sort of made it as a professional racing driver don't think so I call him. I said if I was a learner after the one hundred thousand. Let's I was fast. But you know become real a successful gravel you must be merely I and I remember back occur to crucial events one with Gerhard. He was driving before I cap and then he was coming from four threes and TVOS immediately in front without Testing along in Australia Austria. Another another example was different battle of I was raising those days. Stefan came into the car and and then we didn't see him anymore. And then I recognize the these are the real fast guys and you don't think that the natural speed to become successful in Formula One or something like this. The mid eighties was a hell of an era. Wasn't it. Would you mentioned attention guys like beloff. I'd love to be able to say. I raced beloff his mother if he was up the road. Yeah I see it in a different way a EH raised against someone. I want to beat him. Otherwise doesn't make sense that's true. That's why I guess you got involved in racing as a driver. You mentioned your rent as well. Why your passion for him did it come from his car? Control control anticipate. Can I take you back any motoracing in your family. Who introduced you to know? The Guy Comes from. It was a from. Of course it's cool. We discussed lasted as a friend of mine. War so interested in motorsports and in those days was luckily living in Austria. Ah The racist for broadcast life with Hines Purloin Sawyer and I watched all these races and from these days days on words was more and more involved in motorsports always the newest magazines. I remember back when I went to school and I the bowers light came out in the morning I went to Deke spot. The powers let read it in this core and then of course teachers were not so happy with me and then discussions I remember once was orig- riches the first hour and he's a what you read and I said the Bible T. came back then. He started power slight until he clashed around my head there that the beaches flew away. But this was because I didn't care which our we had when we hit the new powers like I had to read the new power sled past the to know what's going on in the motorsports. Seeing this was for me much more important than anything else. Did you ever meet your room. No unfortunately absolutely not I was too young and so from that moment with beloff in particular on the on the on track. Where did you think your career was going to go next you as a realist? You realized you weren't going to make it as a driver Walter Lechner. I know I had a big influence on you but what happened next. I finish my study. Study Sports Science and Economics and UH UH progress. Actually that you've finished. I thought you were going to say that you got straight involved in racing. No no no. I always Sir during holidays in motorsports slow awakeness instructor. But I said no this study after you finish and I realized or I said to myself during the study driving stop. Because you're you're you're not fast enough Soon as study is finished you start immediately working in motorsports. This is what I did. When the university was finished I went to the lake? NONA and start working. There was instructor in the late. Racing's cooler was working together with with Roland ratzenberger. We shared once a car together. Because both of us didn't have any money a- If you turned us around nothing flew out and sometimes weaver together instructor and then I was in former for formula three Operators and so on and was very very good interesting time. Can I ask you more about ratzenberger. What kind of a a guy was he off the racetrack? After historic Cuba's every a racing driver who wants to come forward very selfish part and we had a good relationship together and worked also quite well together then he went to England and then we lost lost a little bit contact team when he won in brands hatch the festival. I think it was eighty six or eighty seven. Something like the this but stopped already driving by myself. I was there with the hero. Patil's and with former fought with it was the big one. Wasn't it for up and coming drivers to win the food that was the best drivers. Were under start there. In those stays. Formula Ford Festival was one of the highlights of the what happens next because then meet Villi Vaber. Is that what happens. No I came after after Baghdad like the Lake Nona got enough to come to Germany. The bill of Formula Three. This was something completely new for me and That's interesting and then we decipher formula. Three Kerr and I learned a lot there. How the talk to build up a team with design and all this kind of stuff and this was very very interesting and also one with Peter? Cokes raises the German Championship and so the college with cameras. Okay good and wasn't those this I competing against the mainly rain out and later on against Delara and then we came to me because we know it. We knew each other from formula three from former times and said we need to counter him. Does that that really will. What for you need me? I need you for our and then we met each other then. I decided it to go to really to run for three team and from this time onwards than I was together with Roche Omaha. Okay so you were working. With Ralf Schumacher Schumacher Vilis. Main interest at that time was obviously Mico why he needed you. Yes what kind of boss was Villi really was not really was a friend of mine via the fantastic relationship and still have one visit team. Uh every year especially when via the whole clamoring with the malls and we still have good contact contact with each other and this was not a relationship with a Boston's or no. He said to me you do this. And that's it. was he a businessman. I and a racist second no really was a racer I because he likes cars and he likes motor sports and he was driving himself himself many years and I was there when he really spent a lot of money from his own finance. Everything for Michael for out of Because Formula Three Team Michael won the championship us. Everything paid by him really and he really put in a lot of effort for the success and of course later on businessman he wants to get the money and in my eyes he did everything no absolutely professional. Good way I didn't. He got his money back. Admiral sorry this before take it was an investment like you go to the stock exchange or something like this and by their. You don't know where a UH exit goes up there or not. He took the risk he got he got it. There's more to come from friends in just a moment haven't but I this the world around us is ever changing and we're busy than ever juggling all the things that life throws at us. I'd say we find ourselves with our heads stuck in L. phones more often than we'd like to admit while the bose noise cancelling headphones seven. Hundred can help you keep your head and hands free while you listen to your favorite playlist or take cool with the most powerful microphone system for voice pickup. There's no need to stop in your tracks either. Because the intuitive touch controls you can easily change the volume across the twenty hours of battery life that these headphones provide in fact when you switch them on the let you know how many hours of battery life you have remaining so you can make sure you've got enough left for another episode of beyond Madrid Bose's world renowned and adaptable noise. Cancelling technology adjusts to give you the most comfortable listening experience wherever you find yourself available in classic black and futuristic silver. They look pretty smart too as an added bonus they also include bose a are a first of its kind audio augmented augmented reality platform. That makes astonishing new audio experiences possible. So go on make sure your heads up hands free. And you're is amazed with the brand new bose. He's noise cancelling headphones seven hundred. But for now let's get our heads back to our chat with friends. How good was Ralph? The driver Iowa was very very good. A fantastic natural speed and I think he could have won more races. Maybe we also championship simply was not correct. Diamond the correct place for I remember back in formula three or later from Johnathan in Japan he came to raise strikes which didn't know and on Sunday he won the race. He won the championship in the first year and Remember when he came into Formula One driving for trodden decide to physically and administer trees finished third the third position he was on the podium. Maybe fundraisers value now arrive from. His natural speed was unbelievable. I was late with his teammates. Like with one toy and and there was a button he was fast. How hard was it for him? Being Michael Schumacher's brother after care so much about this He was he was forced to do his. He's chop the best possible way and he did it but he had also alive out of the from one car which Michael didn't have. Michael racing was everything and maybe this was a little bit difference. A A from driving from the network speed very good. We had him on the past few weeks by and I asked him. mm-hmm was. He frustrated that he didn't win more than six races and he. He seemed very at ease with what he'd achieved in formula. One which I was surprised has made a little bit because I agree with you. I remember he him being fantastically fast on occasion particularly Imola. It was always brilliant imminent but just I thought he might be frustrated and thought as you say he should have won more races maybe had a championship in peace. Seemed very accepting of what he'd done is relaxed and He knows that He had their abilities to do it. He knows as well that maybe sometimes he was the wrong team and he accepts this under think he made most out of it. Now you went from working with Ralph left to being in charge a BMW trackside operations so tell me friends why do you think it didn't work between BMW and Williams or perhaps it worked. Why wasn't it more successful? The correct Andrew Answer is because because the car was not good enough the BMW engine was fantastic and was the station. Starting great but two one hints at the pitch was not as good as it should have been and also from new. Mechanical site occur was not as good this other curse nevertheless Williams. They're fun the Constructors Championship. If this accident in monster would not have happened and can't remember back. It was a test I came in in the morning and the garage saw the cars and I was a little bit shocked because I was not prepared. In a way as I expected they should be docked to the responsible people at Williams and there was not happy and and An hour later at the Soviet dissident in less more when the wishbone broke and then the change the driver I think Tony Driving and their myopia. New millions lost Disability the wind at least consecutive championship hip and it was a time where the car chassis was. Simply not on the level it should have wien The wind drivers to conduct championship. And I guess it's moments like that when BMW. Maybe thought we need to do this on our road. We can't do this with Williams. Yeah this is how it was and I must must say that in those days English teams were a little bit high headed. They thought two they can decide everything. And I remember by crooner. Frank you have a clump in your hands. I don't don't let him fall because Baden Alexi I'm w you get ones but not vice. But then the corporation operation work not in a way as maybe we all would have wished and b. m. w. did accept this anymore and therefore it went in the direction to do it either himself or Back together with Sour. We tempted to go with them to salvo. Only when when did the chats with Red Bull Stop the charts with red poorest at quite uh-huh Scorpions that I need to immediately and they're off of a contract with BMW but in my contract it was so if I make a decision before over can go free talk to Oh my Tyson and he accepted and then decided to go to answer friends. Boyd you think matter sheets it's phoned you. I was in contact with him since nine thousand nine hundred eighty three ninety four those days Discussion to go to our but I was there for an interview. We didn't come together and then I was always in contact with Martha sheets because he negotiated as well deals with There was Jordan Arrows and on and on and always the ones in discussion. Go to read poor racing but this was too late because mentioned before my contract said I have to tell it until into Dover and this was done in January something thing there is one principle in my life is I will never break contract and therefore sore. It's impossible to go to England because I have still AH contract with. BMW and then report. Another team taught me for you by the way. Why why do you think he bought another team? I think that Bernie and Max Convinced him to do this Eh. Because they knew that Minardi got bankrupt and therefore they look for someone and the original philosophy was okay. Magistrate I bided the impact only if we can use synergies and Rosa must indicate the Andrea US otherwise. It doesn't make sense for me because I do not want the teams who do the research and development and all this kind of work which is necessary for a Formula One team and this is how we started dimension before nine hundred ninety six. We talked with the cars which the red bull racing driving before this is how everything started otherwise. She would not have bought the second team because it doesn't make sense so it was all about developing young drivers and over the last fourteen years you've had fourteen drivers through the team who who has been the best the most impressive driver you've had on your books of course if you look at the results it was fatal because he one times Sir the championship. Yup want he was with you. I'm talking about the drivers when they were with you. Who impressed you the most Of course Sebastian Austin But the marseils other drivers were quite good in those days at the beginning like Maxwell Stockton Also Donald Ricardo. Then I must also say that to beginning boy meted a good shop Eric. Then one was quite fast and differ. He won twice now. I formerly championship or as a Wayman family championship. A couple of cadre was India. And I'm quite a bit at We could work together with them And now This is Alex One. John is also very fast and I must also say that Donald N. P. Gas Leah doing a good job and and banner. Ricardo was fast in those days. Good drivers which of the guys who have been on your books has frustrated you the most in terms of you look at them and you go. You have so much talent. But we're not able to harness it and of course this was Pete Scott speaking those days is just because he was not support. Trump is driving style and attitude was simply not good enough so he was quick young friends. It's been a while two thousand seven was when he was with you. I remember was it. The European Grand Grand Prix. It was at the new probing never happened between you and Scott. Yeah this is a long story and I'm started already in two thousand and six when I was not happy with a behavior with physically fitness. And all this kind of stuff and then and it's usually doctor. They have to improve and for me one. Most important part is that the learning ingredient must come up or that you really see the driver makes good progress and get them to do and then don't accept this. I'm mortified with this. But they must bring the recites not accepting it and not bringing outs and the drivers have a problem with me and I said to him simply after Newport when he went into the gravel pet just him take all your belongings sir. Take the next flight to America. One way ticket. I don't want to see you anymore. Roster that was it that was the end of his okay so as you say it'd been building up over the previous year. You you try to improve. His attitude is fitness and it wasn't coming and there were different topics coming together as usually the perfect storm he had he had fast name the first name and tvos sometimes he was real fast. It was not that he was not skilled enough. I think it was too early for him. He didn't recognize how much work it needs to be in Formula One and to stay in Formula One to drive us. Look you are now in Formula One now. The real hard work starts what you did before. It's a little bit children garden. But now you really must work and Sandra was understand it. They get serious and then well hopefully they have a successful career and other drivers are clever. Enough they don't understand it and then they are out simply that now. You've just told me that. Nobody Bergreen story about Scott speed so when I say to you what is your management style. What would you say? Management style is the one hundred percent transparent to talk to the people gift then targets discuss everything and then I want to see the results. You quite hard. I don't I don't think that I am Hart Explain everything beforehand. And if people don't say yes we can do this. I expected they do it. Do you think with these young guys. You are psychologists almost as much as You are their boss in terms of trying to help boost them and help them on their way. Yeah of course every driver driver. It's an individual. You can't come up with a general violate Style of working because every driver is different. And you have to understand this driver and for this. We have to take time. We have to talk with him. I go with them for lunch for in between to get some leisure time. I am whatever just to find out how the way of thinking and reciting the date of this you have To Guide them and to show them the correct way and this is mentioned before forever different. It's different from the nutrition side different from the physical training. It's different from setting up the car and so on on Sunday. It's rarely took. Two drivers are the same individuals that you can treat them the same way. It's simply not possible. There are more stories to come from friends right after this hellofresh is the. 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What's great is that hellofresh offer a flexible subscription with no fixed minimum term? So if for any reason you need to change your usual delivery skipped skit weeks or alter your box sizes to suit you or your family's needs you can. And they deliver six days a week. Better still hellofresh offering our listeners. Sixty pounds comes off four boxes all you have to visit. WWW DOT hellofresh dot co dot UK and enter the code grid at Checkout Visit Hellofresh Doc Kodo UK and enter the code grid at checkout. So you too can enjoy dinner without the drama right. Let's get back into the final part of our chat with friend And how frustrating does it get that every time you do a good job and develop a young driver and they become any good you lose. That actually happens on the technical side as well. I mean look at what James Keys gone. And there have been instances all the way through no also from the driver's side. That's absolutely not the frustration. That's a good sign. I would be frustrated if red bull racing need to take drivers from the outside because Dental Russell would not make good chop. This would frustrate me as long as they take drivers from us. That's fine for me and to regarding technical stuff changing the team. That's nothing new. That has nothing to do with. This is from behavior or General People go from one company to do another company But Disney for strating from the point of view. You're trying to develop your racing team. You're trying to evolve. You're trying to aim higher in the constructors championship. Ain't ship yet. You've got one hand tied behind your back because all the good drivers the guys who are going to deliver the point you lose we will see now. I don't know what Stanton the result of the season but up to now the Russell never have been so competitive as we are this year the six position consecutive championship just six points behind Rhino. Four points ahead of racing point and if he can and keep this position or even maybe fight for the fifth position. This would be a real fantastic performance from the team site and differ. I think we under correct way there. And once more people leave to other teams That's normal I part then. You must be flexible enough from the management insight to find other people who can do the same trip or in a better one and currently from the infrastructure at Ross. So I'm quite satisfied if we can continue In this way how often do you disagree with Helmut. Let nocco about what to do with the drive. I must say currently in the last month two years Taylor most often in agreement it was difficult in former times but currently we are on the same line and I guess do helmet go back a long way sort of Australian racing. Yeah what's in many many many years and was going to Austrian racing royalty. It's there's a good history from people coming from Australia especially in Formula One and did you know helmet before the red bull involvement and and I knew him from former times from formula three fighting against him and yet it was formula three and then I know him from formula three thousand. We met sometimes no I know him since longtime what is it about Australian formula former one actually look at the positions of power. Toto Wolff Yourself Helmet Marco. It's in the water is in the air. I'm trying to think of WHO I missed in terms of people in key positions in formula. One but Alex Underworld's Versi and and get up golf courses no currently in Formula One. No no there's good history of thing it all goes back to rent. I think so. I know it from Helmut because he said to me without wouldn't maybe not being in Motorsport. Because if I remember I said to me went with to raise new programming and watching you raise and then rain was driving and then helmets. Okay if he drives I swell swell and so and the other driver the other people don't know so much How they came to Formula One or two motorsports but let Formula One has in Austria picky story and Formula One is kind of Katrine Austria and therefore for People are really very very interested. What's going on in Formula One and this has for sure an impact To the people who are living there who are watching it and then they say oh I also want Koto Formula One. I want to work. There did Nikki Nikki. Louder have as much sure an MD make an impression on you in the way. That rindt did as well Nicki. When he came to Formula One I I was much older so it from another point of view and a naked was was unbelievable? We need a championship having heavy accident and coming always bake and how did everything was fantastic and Really like to talk with Nikki. Because he he understood from one soul well and take skin advice and he was not someone who was talking around. T. came immediately to the point and and I was lucky enough to be together with with him. It's a marketing events and of course also the racetrack. Sometimes we met. I teach other and talk to each other but Nikki was a fantastic person really and I must say I miss him and when we have our meetings Burson Lake Nikki who knows from eleven from all the different thing news that they are not so many and being so clever. They're not so many being around here. We all Miss Nicky Boje final thoughts. John Toro how has fines. Evolved developed. Changed since you've been there. I went to the old Benatti audie and I remember it was just a bunch of PORTA. Cabins really wasn't it. What's it like down there now? It's when I came here. The first time I was totally shocked really intent and then there was there ever a discussion about moving from zero or no. This discussion was never because as far as normal dishes promised in those days Minoza stay there at least twelve years and we built up then the infrastructure at the beginning everything was completely running in a different way because we got everything from Red Apple Technology but then from two thousand nine two thousand words. We had to do everything by ourselves but we didn't have infrastructure for this before we were more or less cerise team and then we had to build up everything and this was a very interesting. Those are hard trope and we. We reached now reasonably glacier A lot of effort from all employees and from everyone yes how many people people are in the team. We have currently fixed employees around three hundred and eighty and during the winter months. We get another one hundred on the twenty contractors this mainly people working in the elimination room or dreamers all this stuff just in mm production to finish the current time. And you've still got the wind tunnel in England after Winton Limp Easter own internal and there are still working one hundred people. Do you think you suffer being in Italy with Ferrari Do you think if people want to work for Ferrari not tour associate. You don't get perhaps the quality of people of course people want to work at Ferrara because Ferrari in Italy something special for. I often tastic nick. Image for has a fantastic history and Ferrara's emotion Ferraris in Italy uh-huh behind the pope. Maybe the most important thing so and maybe in front of him of course. Italy is not the easiest place for Formula One team because that defines the Experienced engineers to find. It's difficult and it's for sure easier from in England because they are quite close together together but not which is you don't have such a big fluctuation of people because once they're there then the stay there and Now it's easier because we have I must say very very good Italian. Engineers engineers living in fainter and I don't expect their families there. Don't expect that they will then leave to go to another team Do you think after twenty twenty one when we get the new rules coming in tomorrow so can become. Well what are they. What are you calling yourselves? Alpha Tori Alpha Alpha Tori. That's from mixture. Isn't it twenty years. What is Alpha Tower? Can you remind the officiant brand from from reporter so we're going to have to Al on the grid. Dowry is written a L. P. H.. And not F- okay okay. Different purdue pronounce differently from twenty. Twenty one do you think Torah so can become on a podium contenders. Is that a is that a realistic ambition From twenty twenty one onwards I hope of course as every team principal does but realistic Kelly. Such mutual teams like actor. Russell Shaw from two thousand twenty three onwards why because currently the top teams teams that Masuda top three teams would spend a hell of a man for the development of the car for twenty one. That means this year we already next year they will push all the effort into the development of twenty one and they have three three four times. Damani the meet Phil teams will have that means. I don't expect a different two dozen when one cost cap this coming. Two Thousand Twenty one. That means this top teams have ten to reduce the number of the employees. They will have to reduce their research and development and then hopefully the teams come closer together. But as I mentioned before I expect is not before two thousand twenty three because two thousand twenty one they have the advantage still advantage from two thousand nine thousand nine hundred ninety when they can spend as much money as they like and two thousand twenty one. They can only spent the money within the cost cap which will reduce the development two thousand twenty two once more and then. I think that the team will come closer together. Data and this is what we have to achieve Formula One is entertainment and people sometimes forget this. That Shaw is the most important thing now Formula One. We know that technologies decisive. DNA from one Asia should also be the peak of the technology that we must go away a little bit from this. We must find a middle way and the Middle Way. It must be the cars coming closer together because the fans don't care whether you have carbon gap books or Lucia pokes six or whether you have some special things in the suspension they want to see interesting races they want to see closer assistive undersea overtaking. Maneuvers this. This is what they want to see and want to see and they do not want to have a world champ four or five phrases before the end of the year and The we have to come through and sit at liberty. Media is doing a good job because it's not an easy one in former times. The top teams got much more money than the other us as the mandate distribution was totally unfair and fear and to change all. This is not an easy exercise and liberty. Media is pushing very hard and I think in the meantime they have achieved a good compromise between the top teams and teams from the cost campsite and also from the money distribution and from the DIKLA regulation sporting regulation. We are coming it And do you think red bull is committed to Formula One long-term every now and again matter. She likes to scare us. Listen we have threats of maybe how he might pull out and things like that pull. Pool is of course interesting Formula One when packages competitive read policies apprent. Who wants to win into has to win because they won the championship? Yeah uh not forget this and if the biggest is competitive enough if there's a power unit supplier who provides the team with real real competitive power unit and if a Red Bull racing is fighting for weekdays and for championships. Then I don't see a reason why Red Bush should stop because let's not forget. Formula One is a global player and for the print awareness from the marketing site. I don't know any other sport to sport which works so efficient as Formula One and therefore we will see what the future brings but once more red bull racing is competitive. Then I hope at least will stay there. Well let's hope that too and just a few final thoughts princess. You've your school. You were an avid fan of your. He's the reason you got into the sport you then drove then worked for Philly Vaber and BMW and Ralf Schumacher and then you climb up. The ladder is your view of Formula One the same now as team principal as it was when you first got involved volved with Ralph those years ago of course now I see many things from a different point of view because they have much more experience but left for formula. One is still the same and I try to come. The raises are like to see the cars. Many Times. Go to rush to see the curse because look the details and how sophisticated fistican everything is and I like the racists and nothing has changed from this the point of view and of course from one is an environment which is changing very rapidly. And it's from not only the peak of motorsports regarding now acknowledges regarding the speed now it's also in many many other years just like marketing communication with social media's now and you always have to bring you up to speed That you don't Miss Anything and this makes from Lonzo exciting in. I'm always looking forward for the next raise for for the next season to thinking. What can we do better where we have to improve find new people that it's a never ending story and a Formula One is a trope for three hundred and sixty five days a year. You can't do anything else. And that's it's fascination it is a never ending stories the reason it's the first two nation you know it's my wife sometimes says when we have this shutdown down during the summer months when she is coming with a cut the law graphing benzes. So now you have to do work you have to do something different. Go to holidays because you're hoppy stopped now and it's for me it's something special and it's the passion for aw to work you formula one for me. It's a privilege to work in formula. One differ another can understand when people are complaining about twenty one twenty two races or whatever we are a race team and this trump and that means to go through as many races as possible or friends. Your Passion for Formula One is infectious Texas. And I've loved detaching. Thank you very much. Okay thank you. I don't know about you but I learned a lot about France and Toro so during that conversation. His backstory is a fascinating one not least his own racing career and I'm sure he's not the only person involved in f one today who spent more time daydreaming about F. One than concentrating on his maths. It's homework at school. I also admire friends is straightforwardness. He's a straight talker. What you see is what you get? That must make him a very good sounding board for young drivers passing through his team. He'll tell them exactly what he thinks. which is what they need to hear if there to

BMW Sebastian Austin Ralf Schumacher Gerhard Gerhard Berger principal F. One Frank Williams France England Ferrari bose instructor Toro red bull technology Flavio Briatore London Formula Ford Japan
2020/27  Belgian GP Review

Box of Neutrals

52:31 min | 3 months ago

2020/27 Belgian GP Review

"This is Fox trolls with by Calama Nacho James Point. A big fan of castle. From ABC which stands for Buddies car where we're recording this episode this wake, we're not allowed to even park the one spot because we can't afford to pay for the parking. With your house band, Ida rose and the weather to go sleep on a straight orchestra. Grand. Prix which Lewis Hamilton want again then Ferrari. Ferrari have anything funny to save out. It's just sad. It's just sad. My Name's Michael Avocado in Tony's is James L.. I send US Eleven Auto Cintas James. Here we're GONNA do a Royal Commission. To what is going on at Ferrari because it's What one of one of Fred's summed up best. Saying at first, it was kind of amusing and funny. Now it's now it's traumatizing. Is Actually. Cruel. It's not nice. especially. Given that these. Were Bats. This time last year. As pulled arrested loves to eat favorite. Bill Trivia, all like Ed was that they popped avery station. Lhasa. Mcginn leagues. I talked every single session at one brave. But I barely made it out of qualifying what is Oh just We separately quest to that. Jackson. Can Be of parliamentary inquiry police investigation. Awhile it's going to be a busy emphasized because yes. I recommend to the eulogized staging Ferrari. Maybe Beyond Inquest Egregious the Eulogy Section Foster to look back on what was a pretty straightforward Dahl belting. WHO, look. Back at the end, because it's pretty straightforward plus which racist Ferrari lose at most the season got full calendar we'll go through it one by agonizing wadden this episode of Fox of neutral. Oh. You WanNA listen to books of neutrals. Well, how about you fill out this form yellow one? Oh. Another race and other Lewis Hamilton. We I think I've started the last couple of episodes like that. But that's five in a row from civic. You Bet back in the day when we used to be on Her Majesty's. prerecord all of the sort of the its its box was on. Grandstand, and then we do like five of them in one I. Think you should just have stabbed do about another twelve. E, you'll never I will light up a I'll get the sound effects was shade of of of paper and we'll we'll. We'll just use the one. To conserve your voice because. In this commission on A. Aid All of your oral faculties working perfectly. Maybe we should. We could probably pretty record a lot of rice reviews, I reckon at the stripe because I don't think it's going to be much difference between any of the races we have now and like I like. This every single week as a practitioner of Formula One. Misery just forget about it. You know what I've done. I've given myself a maybe a blackout everyone that knows me e painfully. Maybe blackout basically, do you not tell me what's going on around the world? It's just like the old folks Hyman in the simpsons. Cranky. referencing the oil so I. If you just ignore the fact that Lewis Hamilton is going to win everything, he is going to win the world championship Veltri bought us. You'll be such a happy person just just forgetting about it because it's not yours. Holes to have. Botha. It's like it's like people who? supermodels on on Instagram e just all of a sudden. Bella Thorne is. All of a sudden slaughtered dod. AM's ago at this is just forget about it. You'll be sorry much happier knowing. Knowing this fact believe me I know this. In. Our life. So. I enjoyed I actually enjoyed the groom pray. That's not that's good. Actually didn't think it was that boring had it. I think it was more the there was anticipation that something could happen nothing nothing. But but nonetheless, I went to bed. Very todd odd but. Otherwise satisfied for the time spent watching it. That's good. You've gotta we've gotTa take satisfaction from just the basic pledges in life watching that ad with Nico Rosberg and his dad in it. What's that other ad with Toyota car in with the Stock Music? You know just simple pleasure out on the Nico Rosberg in the Heineken and Father Roessberg. They have got nothing. On burst the biggest thing. God I've never been such A. In all my life but he's He's not he's not realize that Acta he's an actor Oh I saw I saw in rose. Talk. It's not real. That's. FACT HAVE ALEX perimeters. We from Philip Oh but there was huge Davidge? But it's not, he's someone I in fact I think. I think it's a replica that's outrageous. Chilly changes the entire conflict that was one brief dose of reality every night I have to watch. What are birds? Not even a fan of the supercars Eric Bits not cold but because of who they offered apart from the garage, the father and the great man boat you. Moon face. He wishaw. Okay. Mailbox is the. Do you know I? You know maybe Rub. Number one abbreviated rub it to bird. To actually does that Gene-o fully blown? Milo of neutrals dot com could we who paid? Doesn't he controls? We get Kennedy email address set up for each of these. Blown birth at blossom youtubecom would be good. Evening Affair Minute big name on the offensive or go to change that now. Yes we've had our goal update that one full boyne absolutely. Violet boxers. Dot Com. Let us know. Hamilton Watts. was on Paul he won the Rice Badri Potus Championship delayed forty seven points. Ahead of Staffan fifty points ahead of bought assets to Rice wins and that's it. That's all you need to know about who won the Grand Prix championships over ten rounds left by the way we'll talk about the calendar a little bit lighter. The new racist confirmed the new old rices I should say. But that's all that was interesting about the race. Well, no, that's not fair. Actually Daniel. Daniel Collar for a second before we get onto Ferrari excellent rice from him and Reynaud. This was renos best dry since coming back to followed. Honestly, he looked like he was I was gonna say different drive a bit. It's the driver that we all member in love it was it was back the spock was there like he obviously hasn't forgotten and had to drive but everything just kind of clicked this weekend. So from fraud I practice it was it was a good guy apart from the the hydraulic. In Friday practice but. Whatever they qualified well. And Rice pretty well. Too I mean the easy thing would have been to think that I I. Qualified Up the grid and watch them crumble and tumble down. The Labor. Board. But I held on and not only that arcand made up position and finished law and stern effectively with with his teammate for. At at the why thing Stan he's rhythm is coming back really quickly, which is really encouraging to say about. I think the great thing is that this is shown that while hopefully Renner may have turned the corner. Yes. The may be remarkably suiting them who taught us some of the quickest. Growing parise actually beneficial to the RENAI. Also shoring up that that piss eighties is quite overrated. Well, this is the strange thing is because this is a track where force India or racing point. Now, he's a normally at the base. This is normally they're stronger circuit a podiums here in the past last year the year before locked out the second row was it the twenty run win full wide? Down the camel strikes. But this was such a dodgy weekend for them, and this is the thing that I wonder whether it's going to be decisive in way finishing the championship this season because obviously got a fast car. Mercedes of last year whether or not hell how true that is another question but they've always got a quick car got funding. Now they've got resources because they've been bought by billionaire. So there are a little bit more free to move around but from the very beginning execution was bad. They used to many soft ties in practice, which means they didn't have enough for qualifying which is. Qualified very well, they chose a dodgy strategy, for Sergio, Perez for one and then could make any position in the writes. This was just a really badly run grown pray for this team when they normally one of the best of like squeezing the maximum amount of what they have. No good wonder anyway came to drop the protests against the beginning I worked at coming to accomplish shoot. At the moments I. It does but. It's also. Because the big concern that everyone has his all you have to do is copy the Messiah and you'd go to grow free waiting machine or lakes like the best of the midfield. where it's not necessarily true you can have. Put it this way it's like giving. It's like giving someone. Like a really good cam like a film camera something and we have the best Linda's microphone. But if you have no idea what you're doing with it. You might as well have paid paid McKinley with an iron. Infinitely better job so It's about understanding what you've got. It as. Sort of. If. You copied someone time where you Got that conclusion so I got no idea of foibles and it's quicks so. It could be a case of just ahead extract the best set of this copycat car. Yeah. I think that's allegedly absolutely correct because the other thing I think that could play a part there is that while the chassis remain the same next year is scope to develop the aerodynamics and like you said, they didn't make these car. Let's say from their understanding from scratch to understand what making what they were copying, but they don't have Mercedes case. Seven years of information on the evolution of how that works to fall back on when something's going wrong or it's not working the white I expected like the Thai, problems add to make fixed by the next rights the first problem racing pointed candidates. I. Think they're going to struggle more greatly to solve it, and Knicks GM, may fall behind in the development. anyways. So that's going to be really interesting. I think for them, they don't start capitalizing. More fully on their races this as season near third and fourth in the championships not guaranteed for them Roy McLaren both performed fairly well one McLaren didn't make the satellites but still in general were quite Oregan. Good twitter topic. Topic along with do know fully blowing bird. Is. which WHO's had the best copycat if one car voltaren because the one that immediately springs to mind. Is the Toro Rosso of A. Seven. Seven tonight. Yeah allred especially two thousand tonight when when of course, they were the first of the red bull teams through to actually win a Grand Prix. A aside from that. All the like the old Ferrari Sabah sort of hand-me-downs back in the back in the minorities wasn't exactly. Success There was fighting with Jordan. To be on by that point, they had their cash Jim. It's Best Copycat if one. Car Unusual Milo books neutrals dot, com when. At paid regionally. Please give us attention. Carries attention for us. This rice was turned on safety car on lap ten, ten or fifteen I. think it was. For a crash between a crash of Antonio Juvenile Z. and then he sort of brought in Georgia Russell Without Russell wanting to play a part in it unfortunately. Jovan artsy spun off. What are these wheels was torn from the car fairly high speed accident not a massive massive crash. And the wheel heat Russell and Russell crashed into the world. There's no way for him to go wasn't his fault Not In itself is especially remarkable as a crash but. For the fact that. Jovan Artsy obviously important year he's creating second year in Formula One started the kind of on the right foot by GAT qualified baking miraculous in a couple of races. has struggled more since these rice in particular qualified by Kimmy Reichen. And then obviously, by virtue him crashing, which is not what you want. A poignant I think that came on a weekend that both of Ferrari's F two drivers, Robert Schwartzman and make Schumacher maybe him. What first and second I should say in the earlier on Sunday that's a Ferrari state that Jovanotti. Surely at some point that's going to start to play a factor here and not to mention rocket he's finished will be absolutely floored if he's back. Next year because. He's just he's not interested as much as he's standing for something as video the the stock prices video games like only. One and a half words out of you he's the most that he gave to the 'cause. I think he's The, the cause not Greis. Anymore. Lot last year was it was basically a little bit of. I don't want to say false hope because it actually wasn't a terrible. Say's in Iraq and EMBIID. Maiden. If we want to use. A superlative disaster. For him but disaster or Not Entirely. Sure by Alfa Romeo's standards but. It's it's it's it's. Ferrari's genuine disaster not not Alfa Romeo but but that's it. I record that could be played out. We'll up on. This Marco for a couple of weeks US L. evaluate will have a different driver line-up. Huma would really mixed you not this yes. Hundred percent hundred percent next year next hundred percent different or just. One driver at least one that's one hundred percent different can't. Drivers fifty percent different. Okay. Matsui. They will be a difference. Okay. I'll accept that in those. Are That's that's my darren very good. A Derek solid hub I think it's fair to say, Darren. I. Think that's GonNa be interesting because naturally it's disappointing if enough to champion as indeed. Robert Schwartzman may be junior mix you MAC still in the running I think he's only you think he's twenty points behind. For them to win have a path wanting to formula one by being part of a junior can not getting state I think it's disappointing. We've? Nothing. against. Not, so you could still say be does just he's sake but you wouldn't be surprised it didn't happen. Let's at this point delve into the important part of this I feel like we've covered off anything else anyone else wants to talk about no one else here. It's just who we talking about. Let's talk about Ferrari let's talk about old mates. Say Debt Side Baron Miller. Make Crossley allies settled. I think we will be hearing. A couple of weeks. When we rock up to Jello the Ferrari circuit, the first rice that will allow fan. I was GONNA. Say. Of all. Any. Disaster. It's quite sad. It is not good. He's not coaching. It's not Jim I mean. I've gone from a tame absolutely dominating sport to now. Just. INSIPID is their performance. To quite Garry, Lyon referred to full table that the sip-it. L. Y. STYLE WASTING A. Opportunities just started out what's going on what child look close just watching time slip away from me. He's like Groton. No one else is going to win world championship for at least another year or two but. You're at least wanna-be give yourself a fighting Johnson. Ferrari. Just don't even close. It's WHO's really bad. It was it was dreadful. This was Ferrari's worst race I recommend a decade just to be clear they they're Ferrari or at the state the telephone. going. To have to give away A. Little. Something in the middle of a show big four but now in the tropics so you can't do that anyone could. So just everything stacked up against host the. In. Ferrara. Telephone Derek. Telethon. On territory not he's a new that he's a new segment on our scale of embattled. I want every segment every week. He's a telephone. We can rub that next week we will have a I think it could be Ferrari gimmicks link to be totally honest with it's just one big telephone with him at this point but. I think that's the way it's GonNa go unfortunately, let's paint the picture the reason this was the worst race in a decade Ferrari. First Time since twenty ten, both cars finished outside of the points. We there being technical problems or retirements obviously. They just finished their straight up on merit. They were no problems they just were not fast. In The only 'cause they are qualified with a customer engine caused and the Williams, and even then only just the Williams cars that were at risk of being knocked out in q one but just made it through I mean the race they were beaten by Kimmy Reichert and one of the Ferrari customer engine cards in the Alpha. Finished Thirteenth and fourteenth three cars didn't finish. Including, one call assigns presumably definitely would have been ahead had he had acclaimed rice maybe Giovannucci as well because he was ahead of Reichen. So this really should have been willing decide just about a bottom for finished for Ferrari. They're not. You know what? There are no words to describe it you can go to box of neutrals on facebook and twitter. There's a Gif of cal science watching Sebastian vital complained that he's caught is slow. The I roll it says it all for the because this is the man who's going to be writing. The IRA says more than words ever could. said, he probably has a fighting chance if tixx some McLaren people with him and Clare. Will fight pod to to make sure he doesn't bring any Human. Across to that tape because. Like. It's football club that'd be having a review. Of the Department of the Football Department and they would just pay. It basically for our native nail-bomb. To. Him and just just fix them shit up because of this something pull something wrong. Yes. Someone coming into focus on. Ferrari. needs to come in just fix it because. The Matteo behavior I was just. Trying to bite off more than they contribute by Bang Tim principal in technical. Person obviously he stopped that Naso, he's Napoli focused on being. Principal. Something's not working like when you've got Sebastian vehicle. Trying to out engineer is an engineer. Micromanage. US Aren't engineer bicycling. Something and Leclere is going to have the hell have within the whisker of points paying finish the nabbing I tanks. And on I will tell you lighter. Bike. It's just something. These are smart people. That are not stupid but just. Just something the chemistries were home something is is. The philosophy. This is something that is going on. Like a big era like. It's actually scary. It's quite frightening. I'm all fraud and about this current of. That's a scary. This is it's really bad. It was pointed out to me not for the first time was. In this situation Sebastian vessel went the entire session without radio and his team at all didn't talk engineer at all did the same on the warm down lap I think lost rice shows Leclerc did the same one he's warm down lap these rice. So it's not just a matter of vittal being tense with the team that sacked him I think really interesting I thought as well. You can go and look for these videos after the rice it was put to them that Mataya Benneteau had said that it's this circuit that makes them look Sloan that they'll be better at Monza, which is all high speed the reaction on both of them on their faces which masks. So you can't say much of their faces was pretty telling that doesn't seem to stack up. Interesting too as well that after qualifying after that qualified. So badly, the the official line was that there. Was Slower. No I'm was pretending that they were but that they were geared towards the rice and in the rice, they were even slow as we said, were beaten by Alfa Romeo and they qualified them. This is a car that is extremely problems. Also, we're saying as well I think these might be the most damning factor that Ferrari was the only tame that he's slow in Belgium this year than they were last year every car naturally of course makes up time year on year except for this Ferrari car and I think, I'm right in saying that that might have been the case in Austria as well at the start of the year if not, it was very close to this car is a step backwards on La. Seasons. You have to wonder. How talking to old bite of the program ever shake moaning about this when was the last time in sport that? Handle that anyone went from being in this situation, a race winner one year ago to being a candidate for slowest of all. So are we talking about for the water football again because it can be anywhere and it could be anything really It's what are they break last? Do they what's draw to survive? On just to give me the MELBA Speight. Car. His his me Dan it. Is it a simple as you know, obviously, there's the mysterious. Penalty for for the end of last she said, maybe it's not straightforward to actually. Just, parachute last year's CAA. Back into two thousand and twenty but. I mean that Stat Williams made up two seconds on last years or thereabouts on law she's Karen down. There still able to qualify out of. Q One. and. Yet Ferrari have neither improved that they're actually slower than they were last year. It's just. This I really hope that it's just. An aberration and I've just stuffed it up for this year. Because there's yeah, there's plenty of of good talented people during that time. Especially Carlo signs. You, WANNA. Just Cape Building because eventually you're going to write a papal. Because all of a sudden for Ferrari is not going to become an aspirational name they're going to be ended up being bought up by dorito capital in five. Don't careful so. It Needs A. Level the sheep. Otherwise, it's it's not going to be good in some. In some respects, this is. This is almost bigger than that because. This limited development from this season the next for example, the engine development is also limited and we know you touched on there that the unit is K. problem here whatever they agreed to over the off season that they weren't guilty of breaking the rules but we're not going to keep doing what you're doing. Austa clearly is set back. There's no question I went for fastest engine loss of the slowest this year. They're going to be Hamstrung in development including into the new regulations in twenty twenty two. This could be like an almost a generational problem for this tape now on the balance of one rice but really they've had a pretty terrible season so far they've got lucky in certain races. Mons. Are I think is going to be a real massacre for them because there's it's just about spayed there. Okay. They might not have the tire problems that affected them a little bit in this round, but it's still gonNA. Be Pretty ugly. Majella. They reckon you're not gonna get below fourth gear in Majella at any point that's going to be a high speed circuit. So they're cooked they're at a circuit. I like it just doesn't get any worse for them then this and I, thought what was also There so many painful aspects I don't want to say most painful but I thought was was unusually painful. Was that obviously ferraris very upset with their performance. Of course, you would be very angry competing for Thailand he two years ago but he maybe even technically last year. But then on top of that team principled said Mercedes and red bull racing toto Christian horner are also angry at Ferrari for being crap because turtle. Wolf lamented this week that he's tame pushed so hard to improve its engine because it assumed. Ferrari's engine was legit. He lost employees to burn out and it turned out he didn't have to do it. Christian is disappointed because he lost second in the championship last year to an engine that was apparently unfairly quick and had they been using the legit engine red bull should have finished second in the championship Ferrari so bad that everyone is upset it doesn't get worse. Yeah. Inside and out it's not good. The Italian Press Field Day. It's just it's not the it's real struggle straight like I really hope. Kalo sides is somehow the the not in China. When he went to read our I was starting to go I. Went to McLaren, they started to go. Okay. So. So for Ferrari Sake, I really have callosities a is a north. Breath of fresh air but like I said. Like Carlson's could rock up. With all the positivity in the world but if it's not working a quite frankly I think he needs to bring some of these people with him because something something they to something they change because something. Just not sitting well with me, something should bring an engine with him Oregon not at home. A couple of the other stories from this week that don't involve just misery. The complete, it's a seventeen grand calende. You might have already heard about these. We talked about last week because Turkey was well room at that point, it's been confirmed first time we'll take. That turn that on this year anything anyone knows about Turkey. Seven crashed between Villa Marco. That's going to be easy flash. So I don't know if that's good. That's not good. Not Good. Not a challenge. It'd be impressive I'll be personnel don't just turn on myself of of what that truck with I'll tell you Ferrari going to have. Like it. But. Yeah you do forget how brutal I complex was in the generation, 'cause and They Will Bay. Eric can the pass at the to? Be that that high that, and then of course Majella I can't wait for Majella. Genuinely I mean Mark Webber said earlier in the year that driver before they even knew that were going that drivers next would break if they ever raced adma, Jello because I watched it on board of that I, what I've been doing this wake I. First of all, I watched it on board with an old car I. Think it was even a demonstration run an interesting track, but doesn't look that impressive people have been putting up seems on a set of Corser and stuff. So it's not obviously a real live thing, but it's It's an estimate. It's incredible. How quick the 'cause look again I know this is a simulation but these relatively close stack you're at some of the corners like we're going to break any second and you keep thinking that until I get to the exit of the corner and you realize they haven't broken. So it's going to be impressive if breweries in trouble there and also in Turkey went to get to borrow too because that will be racing on the circuit. So the first. Will on the regular track that we know in alright. That's alright. Accession say tolerate producing good rising lightly since they went to not. The nixed rice they will be on what they call the ticket, which is sort of just the streets, and then like a little wobbly at the top, some corners I think you would call that only to slow corners really all three slow corners over all that's going to be supervised Derek and lapsed they're going to be fifty five seconds or less at least in qualifying, which is very fast. Obviously, it's GonNa be eighty something laps longest Muslim number of calendar. It's going to be what I'm saying is that it's going to be fast actually I'm quite cain to see how that. Unfolds is. The closest they go get to. Sort of Indycar sort of style. Of racing in in for the ones that would be. Genuinely. Fast I did actually ponder what how many laps it would be. Would we finally break into three digits for? Girl break. In this instance but. To would twenty lab short there. So it's I these actually genuinely impressive that the season has some have Fanta. Why take? Yes it's pretty much all in. Europe. So that's A lot to say the easy. But in touch wood by now, you probably would have thought they might have the should have been another. Having many more positive cases of visuals but it's it's saint to be waking. So, let let let let's hope we get our full. Allotment of whatever this count is going to be I'm not. Su-. I don't know if we'll actually finish with the intended calendar battle. But. That I will be absolutely floored. If it happens, it'd be genuinely impressive. It is impressive I mean this is one of the more ambitious sports I would say in the world at this point in time disin- motor jeep is doing something similar probably a couple of other sports the traveling a lot. Seventeen destinations. Yeah. Cricket cricket you know. How business it's easier to how whereas this sort of mobile hubbing. Standing it's not comfortable now under the enjoys it you slow down. A. Guard enjoying the twilight years? Tuscany, we've mentioned this before this Jello. This is one rice from now after Monza, they're gonNA have fans but not even quite three thousand spectators. There will probably in a hill fruited Ferrari, it's not going to be good. Russia he's GonNa have fans I think up to thirty thousand or something like that which Jimmy just doesn't sound right he's. Ferrari will be absolutely can't blessing. They called the socks there at Italian number. Because it's It's GONNA be bad Portugal as well. We'll probably have a lot of fans and then we get to Imola later in the year not might have fans that's what you'll November. So white and say, Oh, now on most on Williams Ona we still actually don't know technically who the people behind it because all my Dorito capital thereto caption is. A vehicle for the spending of money of family of a particular family that no one knows weren't site the secret. We all say Zach. It's doesn't end well. But, they have that they legally have to a dance the they've got like two weeks. Who's WHO's actually? I'll I will laugh so hard. Some have Williams story. Back. EASILY EASILY WHY HALF Keeping the night what he's Williams but William. That's It's Michael Savage US right? That's great. Could Happen Clayton. Williams. Hasn't said anything about the long-term management changes that might be coming only that for now it's the status quo. Wouldn't say how long it's GonNa last it has been speculation that by the end of the year when the changes come that, she'll be moved out of the effective team principal position and probably Frank Williams is the actual team principal this point in time. So we want to see about that, like you said, it's a couple of weeks a deadline coming at least for board announcements Renos withdrawing his appeal against racing but Ferrari racing point is still appealing that sentence the points penalty give you some free advice Ferrari just. Six Year on sheet first before you stop if. In other people's plazas hoping see something even if it's in court this year so. You know what will happen now go to the core thing and. Ferrari wolf did accidentally discover. They had something very late. Not Throwing. Just knowing that lock that's probably what's going to happen. Surrounded by Reich's turned up. Trying to navigate around so I've been visiting really. In. The next couple of weeks raising obviously still appealing to not have indi- and Ferrari one-two worse harsher sentence so Wednesday, how that happens and finally looking at Alpha Ari into electric Sandra Bul- Racing Yuki sooner Tsunoda who is the Honduran Red Bull junior driver and F too. We'll be running L. Atari in the postseason every test, which is good news for him. He has to finish fourth in formula to to have enough points for superlicence, which means you could potentially be racing in formula. One next year. And he stood in the Championship on eleven points behind cal and twenty one behind Schwartzman. So he's he's up there. He's had some decent grazing so far this year and potentially this is the next guy on that red bull conveyor belt of talent I'd really like to think George Russell really opened up the floodgates of. Formula Two drivers La- actually graduating. To form the instead of just hovering around is preserved is and then getting stuck in you know build endurance so. Formula or something like that. So It would be. Given that they probably probably drew for a little bit of a generational turn probably I bought you can probably guess a couple of the drive is that I'm referring to but. It would be good to actually say some of those really top flight. To potentially. Have a home in inform one because let's face Ephraim as case was that could have happened like probably do with. An another Ferrari Janus on us and and that'll. Point it'll. Say. For someone in in the ACL. Very good if three championship. Go Up to formula teaneck season. So the FREEBIE categories going well. As a little bit of. Cleanup. Of neutrons that was the Belgian Grand Prix wrap up. Of course, we've got to check on the scores of formula McGinley. If on fantasy competition, you can get a box youtubecom relevant buttons. If you still want to join, you still can lots of people not doing very well. I'm sure you could get positive started four, hundred, seventy, one injuries at the moment. And let's have a look at. Al. If I can learn up the page inappropriate speed the winners from this weekend's Belgian Grand Prix. Of course, had a couple of people regular visitors to the roster. But. It looks like looks like we've had to be the difference in fact, because the winner from this weekend's Belgian. Grand Prix was Alpha tally off from Australia. With that I'm happy with Alpha tally second was band. Also, pay that one. I think it's quite good and third was emperor. Convenient podium the Belgian grand prix equal third as well. The Lazy speedsters five from the United States. Ricardo's Reynaud needs more of art. It's doing pretty well this weekend actually. And seeks. CMO. Is I like it very good. That is very, very good. Ten in this way, keys shoe for you e- I enjoy that one some people some of these look like legitimate names that I won't be able to pronounce. I need to be able to have a go at them some Jesus this this real Scandinavian. A Number of the Bosnian hurts head to. Doing I'm going eighty maguire. Thing. Is Speaking of eighty. I. Point. I've been watching a lot of believe me or Jose. In lockdown I have. To. have in my workplace, there's a weekly Trivia competition. Worked at half of the questions Previous wakes me so as long as. I've I've gotta finding shots but I is that what you like about Eighty Maguire? The. Things that have caught my autoimmune say number one, any Maguire I've never met anyone who has mastered the art of Chitchat. A five minute conversation about how the human brain works with a with a someone studying for their masters of psychology or something. And I just seamlessly dropped in fact towards about how the brain works and then the then the very next contested calling would. He's ability to Chit Chat Is. It's actually staggeringly brilliant. Genius and the second points. Millionaire holds eight is that lot of people? When asked what are they going to do with their money? They always say Oh, I'd like to go to Europe all how you know it you are not. You are not going anywhere. Good. So the ten thousand dollars that you have one on the old hud sake ain't going nowhere. We just have to invest it wisely and then cash out your super or something. What can you do? A little to millionaire say mailbox neutrals DOT com. What's your favorite thing that millionaire? A lot of questions on the guy and he's six bucks a mutual plays out the mall at books neutrals Dot Com we've got a couple of. Both the air and hurts flags in this competition I've just noticed. We speak maybe we've got a small following. That's good. If you're from Bosnia and Herzegovina neutral dot com. Why are you listening I? Mean we appreciate that you do we love the good. Glad to have you happy to have you. On Yeah keep going. Keep on truckin. Let's look at the overall. The overall writings unfortunately, I must read this. I thought the name was just venturing bought ass as in leading championship. It's not and he would never leave a championship anyway. It's voluntary Bell Terry Hot. US IS I in the form of the McGinley competition. From the Keeling Caucus Islands Caucus Keeling islands even. So a lot of diversity on AL board here. It's quite good. Sam Team Truth I wish there was a better name but SAM team to shortly wonderfully to SAM team. One. Third in the overall order is Suzanne forty four Louis. Mercedes. Fourth tracing point gone girl is fifth and x men infringing on copyright is sixth? which is very well a couple of other names that have caught my eye in one hundred, equal one, hundred, and ninety nine. Is a love. So Virus Forte. April one hundred nineteen pandemic jugular. ICING. You obviously a reference to the full ATEB. Hundred, I think we've had this one before from Russia with love. Last. Little reference to that great team. Hundred. Seventy fourth. Lick my reisig law. Then, that's the data link indifference. Leaking themed one in one hundred and Eighteenth Lick my livery also that yes. And then is. It W- on Equal A. Two hundred forty fifth the Rucci man, let's begin. Dreams I'm going to meet it would in the middle of that and then. I thought the game was broken, but then I realized everyone's talk on two, hundred, forty eight is. Well reversed greed. darned break my hotly. That's very good. That's good and then Sergeant Williams lonely rice team. As well, so that's That's a you bought up to fifty. Four, hundred and fifty fifth. So I, think I think I think climbing up. I think I was full seventy the other day Oh four hundred, seventy one heck. Look. Eric Well, not good evening Oh no wonder going well so I've got verstappen. Yeah that's good. Perez and Straw. Grows your home. Garage and then the clue oh that's not good. That's not. You need to clean out you need to come in and have a crash yet focus on Formula One. Watch out using my tape I'm fifty third by the way, which is not bad. I've been steady I think in the fifties. K. My team Staffan. Pretty Good Esteban Khan. Who Inexplicably Lost Valley this week despite having A. Career. High. Finish not jaw. Lender Norris derived Perez and stroll. Let's go points and Mercedes is my tape. So I I maybe I'll have to reflect on reflects on this although doing doing okay for now. I think it's OK. MIRELA. BOX NEUTRALS DOT com. Let's have a look at some. Ask McGinley's don't forget. Yes. You can still join me in the beginning. If you go to boxing DOT COM, check it out there. We've had a couple of email dean and the subject line for them does not contain the word unusual but was still etc. Roy's i-in joy checking the inbox because it's always correction it's all the. Corrections. They usually. This week is no exception. We've got one in from mock and the subject. He's a strategy pay name given the different names used to as the held in the same country under the covert arrangements. What would you name the second Australian pay simply stray in GP Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Jay perfectly reasonable option is going to be the. Dictator Dan. At this the natty psychology. I've already what's going on in the world is. Oh. Sorry. I'm on my maybe like that so What's topical are? Watching Formula One and. Burton. WHO's a big Fan? Much GonNa Television. Alcohol which is also getting a lot of higher education at the mode I e. Park is it's it's a winstone growing parade track. It's often where. People are running or they walk the dogs. And not pick up facing. So maybe could be the the dog walk grown break dog Walker gotta a good name Ex people look dogs they ellen rascal on our watch the news anymore because I'm a media blackout. The chance to get a dog involved in a new story that's It's always GonNa wind up and you could have instead of the anthem because you have two different anthem we're GONNA have to, but you could. You could teach whistle. We'll just. Gave Music. Man. With. The woman. That runs a you know that'd be good. I reckon something that don't walk around for it is count lights and exterior. We'll have to get some races fish. Baby steps. A message. In. Michael Click Ferrari. Interesting I. I don't know if that's my saying, wrong. Subject is concord agreement. This is falls into the correction. In fact it starts off with Bora statement the Concorde Agreement on has nothing to do with the French. British. Aviation Venture but the location of the first, these are the agreement, the Pasta Concord. If I officers Paris nineteen ninety-one go Ferrari tractor, BOJ. Less funny than the Ansett. Agreement? Over. The? Rhine agreement that should be twenty vision. That's the bugs. Budget cap agreement is the right air. I'll skip the astronaut happy with with Ryanair Aeros on twitter today all really is he gonNA data data Lincoln levels of unhappiness or. It's not surroundings bags. It was just more procedure sort of like you know they they do the coronavirus protocol in the plan that crime boss. Decides the bus company's problem after that is unfortunate, it's negative negatively Blake's. Box of neutrals on twitter as well. Don't forget. You can tweet US doing rice a good question from Dr Tim Clay. Why was there a fan of maximum staff and doing a shoe in the broadcast? You may have seen this on the fame off fake TV thing. Gold grown adults. US All that no. Yeah. Where did they? Where do these people come from I'm not convinced they reopen made didn't know people that listen to books of new. I just. I don't know who they have selected. Some kind of the sacred cabal. something. CONDOS sacred acting agency were they. These fake people just as those tweets on the on the on those screens in the in the garage or the podium. Like, it's not real. There's some kind of conspiracy going to get you five jade. Conspiracy theories it's there's a secret society, these fake. Heineken built. Am I wrong dirt from the big fan of the zipcars know. What's what's to say? Just just think if you had a real person if you had like a decayed. Who's like you'd I'd takes his shirt off for like. Pulls these pants handle something. It's risky. It's quite risky trading. Potentially. You could say someone the ball to a global audience of five, hundred, million people like it would be good. So maybe. They have to be to be a bad deal would be bad decision. I'll late late. Radio. Sacred. Way Fan when you an. Is Flawed. So all they sort of take forty sort of. Shows that just. Don't feel like they live on a Saturday afternoon radio answers have laws. They're all fight. Call is pre recorded on Tuesday? Yeah. Aric at all by. Can He? Is orchestrated because what real person sort of does the lights in Hewitt face to a camera and then stop. Is Ridiculous like. Like. SERIOUSLY IF I If I had an email come through from Hannukah job and they said, we will eat to pull a stupid fights for thirty kids. I feel. Like I'm not interested. Rather not. It's Iraq. You GotTa be skeptical. The world needs skeptics like up shapal. choosen, it's McKinley maybe you. Can set. At three thousand agrees it's almost set. Here, more trips into the sun and Formula One at books of neutrals DOT COM COM com. Sorry. I got into it rhyming pattern. Now excuse me I visit my local GP to find out exactly why I talk like this I had to tell by why it says my only boys. Sit Down like on another Andrew James That was wrong parade review the first in a block of three races of Absolute Harari misery with the Italian free at Monza and the race at Majella still to come. It's GONNA be a long couple of weeks. Yeah. Look again do the old regime strategy. Expect. Lewis Hamilton to win the grown pray in everything else that happens is by so just going with that mindset and trust me you'll have bit time. I think that's the only way to try this season. We all know what's going on. We know what's going to happen. Just, the way it's going to be walks dot com only going subscribe and download episodes of this podcast or of course, subscribe with you ordinarily get your podcast favorite costume up Do let us know email books interest dot com. If you subscription doesn't work because we've changed providers that's the most back end. I'm GONNA talk 'cause it's boring. Boring is the Belgian Grand Prix. Guys, but do you still lead us already interview even joined the shot helps other people find it makes everyone feel good. Feel good. You feel good. Everyone will feel good. Would like to feel more good in these trying times for a hurry disappointment I think it's absolutely fair to Bosra and all your social media channels as well. Next week to win unites. Hamilton who finished in the points probably Ferrari we're going to wrap up the Italian grown freight till then not be Michael Hi. I'm a big. At this box turtles.

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