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Ep. 210: How Stress Affects Your Skin with Dr. Amy Wechsler

Fat Mascara

53:24 min | 4 months ago

Ep. 210: How Stress Affects Your Skin with Dr. Amy Wechsler

"Everyone is jess I'm Jen. I'm still JEN ALWAYS JEN? We Are Fatma's Skara and we are back for another week of beauty. News were fat Mascara I like it. It's like our band name now. Famous Garra rocking the house We are excited to back with you I. feel like we're gathering around. We know every every Wednesday or whenever you listen to us we've got a lot to talk about. We know it's been. It's been a tough week. A rough. We all over the world. Yeah, we thank you hope everyone is hanging and staying safe, and if you are joining us this week, we thank you for coming back and hope that we can provide a little bit of a break for everyone on that note. WHAT ARE WE GONNA? Talk about this week. Let's see so I up. To issue a correction, an episode or two ago, we talked about deep stuff bikini line bumpy, if you. Are like me in are taking bikini line grooming into your own hands during the quarantine, you may be experiencing some bikini line bumpy as an I, asked my good pal Dr, Rinella. How to handle this. I came out with a lot of great tips and one of those was to treat with Hydro Court of over the counter hydrocortisone I was so caught up in her tips so excited just like going crazy and I said ten percent hydrocortisone and a couple of you, you guys. I like you guys because you're so informed. And you wrote me some friendly friendly criticism, a correction and you said correction, a correction they sacked, checked us, and one of the emails was from a registered nurse, and said you cannot get ice at ten percent hydrocortisone can't you cannot get ten percent hydrocortisone at like a CVS? It's one percent and I look back at my notes from Manila and. And of course Ronel, said one percent guys sometimes I get really excited and carried away, but if you have inflamed skin bumps, look for one percent topical Hydrocortisone, really sorry, so editor's note I was wrong and I hope you'll stick with me. I. Do not tend to make these kind of mistakes and I'm really excited that you guys are so informed and kind to correct me. Kindly, so we are going to also hit you with the headlines of the week Jen right correct, and we also have sunscreen news to share with everyone, and then our guest is I think it's really timely right now. We have Dr Amy. Wechsler, she's a board certified psychiatrist and dermatologists, so we're going to talk about the link between mental health and your skin so should be really interesting. You're ready to do it. So much news discuss. It has been a week. Even though there's been so much going on in the world, beauty doesn't stop it so I up in the week following George Floyd's murder here in the United States has protests unfolded around the world, the beauty and fashion industry was having its own reckoning rightfully so and we're all taking a closer look at how racism permeates the way we do business. We're doing that here at fat Mascaro, as well one change we saw. saw that we thought was really interesting. It was a call to action from designer. Aurora James so she's a fashion designer, but on her instagram she was asking American retailers. People like sephora target saks fifth avenue lot of the places. We all shop for beauty to play fifteen percent of their shelf space to black owned businesses, which was if that doesn't make sense to you if you're not in the United States, says because in America the population is about fifteen percent black. And I thought that was a really interesting way to put your money where your mouth is like. We can't just be talking about how we want to be better in the future if you can do hard numbers of. Sharing Black beauty businesses. That's a really great way to help. Move this conversation forward. Yeah, I like that it was very actionable, and it's something that you can see and it gives people an actual him at work. They talk about like a smart goals, and you know it's an actionable like quantifiable thing, and there's a lot of lip service happening right now and I. Think a lot of it is you know people mean well? But what are you going to do about it and we should say here at fat, Mascara we two been thinking about it? So Jessica I val to going forward continue to show a diversity of voices in the interviews that we. We do here and also increase the number of black-owned beauty businesses that we talk about so when we talk about products, we're not always calling out who the founder is, but working to do our best in the future to make sure that we're really diverse with the types of brands that we feature and just let you know about more small indie brands that could use your dollars right now. A lot of you have been asking. Where can we shop for black on beauty or on the facebook group There's an amazing thread going on with a lot of guys sharing black on PD brands you love that love. That's great. I wanted to wreck you to. Jen and I can certainly rattle off some great brands right now, but I really WANNA share. Whoa, Ma Minted Lauren. NAYPYIDAW should I stop. I really WANNA share our friend Julie Wilson's lab. Great instagram highlight reel while his name is familiar Julie Wilson was Jen's Guest Co.. When I wasn't. Available one day she is fantastic. She is the former essence beauty and style director. Now she is the cosmic beauty director congratulations Julie, she just got the job a couple of months ago a she has this highlight reel of almost two hundred right now. This over the Dave cowens was two hundred black own beauty fashion businesses. All small brands definitely shopped the highlight reel Julie Wilson is at Miss Julie M. I.. I. S. S., J., U., l., E. Good. Her real is right there. You know what else just I should add as an update on. She did adjust beauty version of this for cosmopolitan dot com with one hundred and twenty-five, so we can link to that on the Blab. That was one hundred twenty-five black-owned beauty brand batteries go on instagram. Lots of resources that follow her too because she's a really good. Absolutely, so check it out. I think you're going to be seeing a lot of brands. Really kind of get with the program and I think they really all are having a good hard look at themselves. If they if they're. They're paying attention. US included okay, next up is the my French is burberry's new global beauty director, so she's a makeup artist very artistic, like just like abstracts amazing stuff. She's worked with YSL in the past, she was also with Tom Ford beauty as a creed of artists consultant at one point. Even she's worked with Christian Lubaton to now. She's at burberry. Let's see what she does there. You know what's interesting about Samaya French. I think she's really ushered in that very kind of. Let's say like ugly beauty. Beauty, that is not necessarily meant to seduce or impress grotesque. Yes, it's makeup that isn't like enhancing your features makeup making a statement and looks artistic. She is a really cool aesthetic. So watch what she does at burberry okay engender. Science Corner had to I. Just read this really interesting study. This was published in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology so there was a survey of people with psoriasis in China during the covid nineteen pandemic there and the quarantine, and they found that that resulted in people, psoriasis, having negative effects on both their skin, their skin condition the. The psoriasis and their mental health, so part of the problem was that people weren't working, so they didn't have money to to pay for a lot of their psoriasis treatments, but a corrected for that, and they still found that there was a impact from the pandemic and the thinking. Is that It was partially because people weren't having outdoor access, and they were more stressed, and that's what you know played up the psoriasis. I feel like this is something we'll be talking about with our guest in the interview. So if that's intriguing to you definitely keep listening through the interview. another news item earlier, this spring, America's first native American beauty brand opened in window rock Arizona with a storefront I should say all of its employees are from the Navajo nation and the company beauty makes skincare and makeup I actually read about this company to feature in beauty. Independence linked to that on the blog but I love how the owner. Her name is a sake bottle of France SASSARI and she describes the products this way, which is just I just like smiling when I read this, the quotas quote our skincare line is ninety eight percent botanically based gentle yet effective life is already complicated, and my goal is to make sure our products are uncomplicated easy to use. Preach preach preach, preach, preach US ocoee Bois. I'm excited to see this brand. I'm going to order some so I can try it out, but for now just an interesting news. And next up in the business corner. Can I also have a business corner just? Not just the science corner sounds like you got a lot of corners right now. Five. Guess what Charlotte Tilbury has indeed sold a majority stake of her company. It was one of the companies that we talked about was possible. Owner, puge, superior Spanish conglomerate. They own brands like John Paul Gauthier fragrances. They also have a lot of licenses. Product perfumes is one of their license. They are now the majority stake owner Charlotte is going to stay on as the chairman president and chief creative officer. Unfortunately I do not have hard numbers for yet. 'cause I just. Just and I had a bet going on how much they paid for this pretty pretty little company. What do you think chests? What do we say I think over a billion? Yes, so in the next week. I bet you in the reporting. It will come out with that number is and we will let you know next time we record. I think you know I didn't see huge. As you know a player in this in this fight, I really didn't. But I think it's interesting for them because they don't have a color brand doesn't spring to mind they don't they barely even have skincare care. They're just so heavy and fragrance there so heavy in fragrance, and they also don't have a real personality brand, right? They'VE SHAKIRA THEY SHAKIRA FRAGRANCES, but they're all perfume I think put Shakira and Charlotte just would not even put them in the same. They're not comparable. Yeah, and they don't have a color brand at all I looked at their brand portfolio in this news came in and I was like this makes a lot of business. They obviously realize like. We can't just be so heavy in fragrance when there's all these other. Places to play in so yeah, that's some news there. We'll try and find out how much how much they paid. I WanNa know let's let's talk a little bit about numbers exact clay last item. Let's talk about Kylie Jenner the beauty entrepreneur. She has sadly lost her billionaire status, so that's according to Forbes. Who gave her the billionaire status in the first place in a recent article? Article they looked at her cash out from selling her company to cody and her personal fortune, and they re estimated it to be a little less than nine hundred million, which sounds like a lot of money either way, but there's some important facts in this story right just so basically the it's bigger than them. Being not quite billionaires the Forbes. Editors are basically saying that the. have been inflating their success for quite some time over the years. The KARDASHIANS have invited the Forbes editor of their mansions, and over to their CPA has offices, basically trying to make them live. They were richer filings. You know they were given the full PR press to try and get like a big number for their families, so they looked richer and you know they wanted to. Have you know be on the Forbes List? When they were on the number fifty nine spot Chris was according to their publicist. This is in quotes, guys so frustrated. We've done so much she. She said, and then honestly the the Skin Carolina. Last year. They said that they did one hundred million in revenue, the first month and a half, but the filings show that they were on track to finish the year with twenty five million in sales. That's twenty five percent of what they claimed. That's hard math people, so it just goes to show like PR spin and a big powerful name that doesn't let you just inflate numbers and say you have things you don't. It's really it's kind of annoying. So of course the Jenner's have said that this is all untrue. Let's see how this plays out. Okay guys. This next segment is brought to you by Neutrogena remember, we said we tell you and it was sponsored segment. This is one so they're sponsoring this and help. Make it possible for us to bring you the podcast every week. We've always gone to Neutrogena for the fax on Sun Protection so when they told us they had some interesting news about sunscreen Justin I were like. Yes, please. We will talk about it and we will share it with you, so we're not really talking about their sunscreens. They make lovely sunscreens. This is more of like a service announcement about some. Some News Jeff share the news. I was like Whoa, so I saw the new poll that Neutrogena conducted this spring and I read that thirty nine percent of Americans twenty two and over say they're so focused on handwashing right now, and avoiding all the germs that they're not even thinking about sunscreen application, and that seemed crazy, but maybe it's just like a temporary slip I. Don't know I know you think liquid once the pandemic is done ever is going to go back to remembering to wearing sunscreen, so they let me talk to. This woman is the prevention researcher and clinical psychologist. Psychologist who specializes in Behavioral Medicine Sherry Pagot. That's who she is. We had a lovely chat and she was saying. Yes, of course, we all realize this is going to be happening, because you're so focused on other health things, but she pointed me to this other study. That was really interesting. They studied Danish Gym Goers Gym exercisers. You would call them, and basically, if they were on vacation for a week and not exercising, you think okay when they get back. They go right back to exercising for two months afterwards. There was decreased Jim Attendance meaning just the act of getting out. Out of the habit of something. Even when you think you're back in the habit, you might not be sued. She's very worried that this could mean for the rest of the summer. People aren't wearing sunscreen so i. get that you know. Behavioral changes have lasting effects, but personally for me like if I do one healthy thing, it kind of snowballs, and it makes me act healthier all around Oh like snowballs in a good way. Yes, yes, so balls is like a bad thing, but you mean like it rolls into more healthy stuff. Yes, yeah, I voted the positive because snowballs going. Downhill Way, right? What's the uphill way I don't know what give me an example of this puzzle case, so this is the best example. I remember this commercial and it was for a healthy breakfast bar in this woman started the day. You are like in her body, and like looking through her eyes, had this healthy breakfast bar, and then you saw her like go to work, and maybe like you know, there is a bunch of donuts at the office and someone's like you know Susan like Joanna and she was like no thanks, Carl, and then the next thing was you know? She was literally worked with people. They've Susan Karl. They like are in everybody's office. Go on, yeah, you get it the next thing the next thing and then. She decided that she was going to. Walk instead of take the bus or whatever it was, but you could kind of all this little small choices, and it was like one small choice lead to the next thing, and that's how I feel when I do something good for myself. I just believe in myself to do the next thing I. It's funny because I feel the same way. I called it like a halo effect. I was talking to Dr go about this. She called it like a synergy like you're just in the mode of be, she said. said it's definitely she's knows that with Diet and exercise, but like there's no research that's true for Sunscreen, but I feel like it should be like I feel like when I'm like. I've been keeping my sunscreen near the mask like the face mask and the hand sanitizer, so it's like helping me remember to use it and I feel like I've just been healthier all around because I'm like okay putting on the mask. That's a good thing and honestly like. I've been floss my teeth more because I'm like just like. All these weird little things little things to just try to keep you in check especially right now. Keep your health check and sunscreen is a part of that. Yeah, and also I was thinking about the mask. This like. Can you imagine a Mask Tan? You'd only farmer's Tan. They call it here. In the states I don't know if elsewhere in the world, but when you're wearing a t shirt, and like that crazy arm Bentley. Are we going to get these face vans? Nobody wants that probably you know so. I S our listeners. How do you remember to put on Sunscreen? How do you keep up with this great healthy habit and like you? Jen a Lotta is about placement. You say you keep the sunscreen right by your mask. I have people putting it in their shoes, which is hilarious. Remind the door that's funny. I thought that was really cute in their baby stroller. Which I think is really smart, because I think about that whenever I'm out with Les. How could get you have a baby now? Which means it'll be wearing more sunscreen. Shiva baby stroller to push your sunscreen around in exactly and if and if the baby is old enough yet. Keep the baby sunscreen in there, too. That's important next to their keys. And then somebody else bought a huge jumbo bottle of Sunscreen, and they bought that and they. They spent the big money to get this. This jumbo bottles through like Oh, I'm getting through this I got to get through it by the end of the summer or something like that. Get your money's worth I. Love It. Yeah, yeah, if you've invested that much sure so really good tips there. It's on our facebook group are fan, facebook group Oh cool. Maybe we'll keep them coming throughout the summer to and honestly thank you to Neutrogena I for the poll because I did not know that was happening, but thanks them for sponsoring this segment because you know how important sun-protection is to I and we're just really proud to have them as a sponsor here on the show. So Amy, Wechsler one of only a few physicians in the United States. Who is board certified in both psychiatry and Dermatology? She graduated from Duke. University went to medical school at Cornell University Medical College then. She completed her psychiatry residency and as if that wasn't enough from there, she decided to do a second residency in dermatology. She's an adjunct assistant clinical professor in psychiatry at Weill. Cornell Medical College. She's also the author of the mind body connection, which was published in two thousand eight. It's such an excellent resource for anyone who wants learn more about what we discussed this interview and with that here's the interview. Dr. Are Welcome to fat Mascara thank you so much. Thanks for having me Oh. We need you. We need you right now. This is this is going to be a really timely topic I think. Our listeners are GonNa love so I'm just going to start out right away. Let's talk about you are both a psychiatrist anoterh just so you're the perfect person to talk to us about this. Thank you. People are stressed out right now. I think it's safe to say heightened levels of stress from. From both the pandemic social unrest, all the things going on the world, their usual lives money matters unless if people have chronic stress all the time, so cues just going to chemical level. What's happening when you're stress like what happens to your body? And how is your skin? Even involved in that sure, of course, so all these bad things happen when you're stressed. We can start with the brain. So there's a molecule called Cortisol and that's a molecule that goes up during the fight or flight response, and we need it, too, because it gets us to run away from danger, you know in the Savannah if we're being chased by a Cheetah, but then bet danger, either they catch us, and we're dead, or we've gotten away in a minutes and then. Then, the court has all levels supposed to go back down to normal heart rate will go back down to normal all that, but record is all is getting pumped out from chronic stress over hours days weeks months. It does a lot of bad things to the body with interesting. Is that the brain and the skin or formed from the same embryo logic layer so there so many interconnections? When! I learned that I was like Oh that makes so much sense. In embryology and Cortisol that's made. makes its way to the skin real easily there, so many vascular interconnections also, the skin actually probably makes its own cortisol. There's a couple of studies on that court is all the so many bad things, so it's called. Pro Inflammatory inflammation is really bad so to the skin cortisol does it breaks down Collagen so that's why people feel like. They can get a new wrinkle overnight when they're really stressed and they can. It also causes acne so acnes disease of inflammation. So that's why everyone gets stressed pimples, lots of studies like they've done so many studies on college campuses during exam time count pimples. And PIPPA counts. Go Up to three fold. It also messes with the skin's barrier, so the skins are really good barrier, keeping the good things and bad things out. The skin gets leaky when there's too much cortisol around, so it's called Trans Epidermal water loss. T w. l just means the skins leaky. It's leaking water and in being leaky it. Let's stuff in that. It shouldn't just to the surface, so that's why some some people are like. Oh, my gosh, like my normal products are now giving me rashes like what's going on or someone who has like really kind of hardy skin and can try all sorts of different fragrances. Gets Arash. Also Sorry go ahead I was just gonNA. Ask about the inflammation thing because that's always confused me 'cause. I picture inflammation like oh I stopped my toe. It's red and hot and swollen, but like do your little cells and your skin. Look if you can't see it on your face, are they like? Are they getting swollen? What is that like cellular inflammation? Sure so yeah, so inflammation doesn't necessarily mean swelling. You can see, but it is microscopic swelling so a bunch of years ago. Cardiologists figure out that heart attacks aren't just caused by coronary arteries getting stuck with. Cholesterol, it's that cholesterol plex sits there until it gets inflamed and swollen is when a heart attack happens so similarly in the skin. Inflammation in the cells breaks down college right right, but it also if you're thinking about a poor with pimp like that can make a pimple, acne is a is a is a disease of inflammation so as psoriasis so as exit. Just different cells get inflamed. You can't see the inflammation itself, so you've mentioned acne. A couple of times and its connection to stress so I was doing a little research prior to our chat, and certainly over the years you know, Jenin I. We meet with lots of people and acne, and the and the connection to depression has come up over and over again out there. There was a twenty eighteen study where researchers found that patients with acne. Acne this is we don't need to study to tell us. This. have an increased risk with developing meter depression, the risk for major depression was highest within one year of acne diagnosis, a sixty three percent higher risk compared with individuals without acne. Do you think that people still even though we're hearing this over and over again? Still underestimate that acne has as major effect on mental health. Yes, I do. It's underestimated all the time, and it's so sad to me because I see these patients all day long every day and they're suffering. It's real suffering it's real depression. There's so many studies like that and there's a great study a few of them on accutane I love. The strong acne treatment and gets a really bad rap for a couple of reasons, but some big studies have shown that during accutane depression scores all the way down and self esteem scores. Go all the way up. which is what we always see. Yeah I, think you mentioned that like? It's underestimated too quick, personal anecdote I know somebody who their child had such bad cystic acne, the someone who's close to me but such bad cystic acne, terrible terrible and they. You know this is a smart person. They said Oh. It's a phase teenage years teenagers they could offer. It's the chips like they're going. These old wives tales. It's the sweat from the summer like his face. Yeah, exactly, so, what is that gap is that they're not getting? We all have the Internet, now most of us do not all of us know. Most of us have accessed information is if the cost of getting to the dermatology? What is we're kind of talking about two different things here, but their depression. is so serious with. Acne And it's accutane I was on. ACCUTANE wants. It's not like they're there must. There is a generic. It's not like this huge threshold to get the drug right like it's right. I'm just trying to think the hurdles to solve this problem. We know that depression leads to such more serious things like to me. This is a crisis I agree with you. I think depression in general is underestimated in teenagers, especially because teenagers are quote supposed to be Moody, but that's not actually true. Yeah, and depression in teenagers looks a little different than adults like when a teenager withdraws from his or her activities or like. That's really bad sign they can. Anyway and they're more irritable than adults who get depressed just generation, but it can look it can look the same and I think a lot of parents just think back to their own teenage life, and if their parents didn't take their acne seriously or like gave them ten bucks to buy some clear Ciller. They don't really remember very well, you know. It. It's very hard for some people to take it seriously and I think it's their own psychology and their own upbringing, and sometimes their own education level, and their own ability to be insightful and empathic. Whenever apparent brings me a kid to treat. I always think the parent You've done such a great thing for your child bringing him or her in here like that's, it's a real gift. I'm thinking about people who are listening here that maybe don't have access to someone like yourself. What can they do if they see somebody suffering with very bad acne and Consequentially, you know maybe some depression. That's their child, rather their child, or maybe maybe it's even them listening. Oh, well first of all a lot of people with acne in depression feel hopeless. And, when you feel hopeless than you, you don't try to get help. You think nothing can help me. So just knowing that there's always help, like acne can always be treated and always be improved upon soak in depression. Depression can take long or sometimes, and sometimes it's tricky in the acne something you have to play around with the medicines, and it's a little bit of trial and error and takes a little bit of time, but there's always hope and the other thing I hear a lot of people with acne feel like they're alone like they're the only ones with such bad quote, really bad skin, everyone else's clear skin. All my friends are clear all the if your friends have clear skin in a teenager than you're either not seeing their acne, because it's on their body, and it's covered. Covered, or the very had treatment, because ninety two percent of teenagers have acne and the the number still in the eighties twenty somethings, so it so common and yet people feel so alone with it, which makes me sad, so that's why I love to try to educate people about how while it's so common. It doesn't mean you have to live with it that it's like a normal right of passage. It's a medical condition, so if you do go to the doctor, the drugs to treat acne would be covered by insurance. Correct, the short answer is yes, if you're a teenager, some insurance companies have made the arbitrary decision that after the age of twenty five. They're not gonNA cover, act. which makes zero sense since acnes still really high, until will for women until menopause and ferment could be their whole life, so if I have an insurance company that will cover medicine mean I, fight it to get the medicine for the patient, and what about another skin issue that is also very much connected to mental state is psoriasis so that was rice I read has a thirty nine percent of increased risk of being diagnosed. If you have psoriasis, you have a thirty nine percent increase of depression. Anxiety thirty one percent higher chance of being diagnosed with anxiety would have you observed all of that I mean I think we. We've known that for a long time. The thing about the skin is at its on the outside right, so if someone has an ulcer suffers from migraines, they feel horrible and not to discount that, but they don't have to deal with the world interacting with their illness right, but if someone has psoriasis on the outside of their body, it's very common on hands and arms. And it can take over your whole scalp, and 'cause like tons of Dandruff. It's also very uncomfortable or acne if it's on the face like Tara hide so that interaction with the world becomes really difficult. You're wearing your pain on your face exactly. And psoriasis associated with with arthritis, which can be really debilitating, but. Since I graduated from residency that when I was resident, that's when the first biologic treatment I rises came out, which was called and Bro. And since then there's thirty of them now, so there are these amazing treatments that can really clear up skin and. Talk about insurance, like many can be covered by insurance drug companies who make them have a program for people who don't have insurance and they can get them, so you can get to a doctor. You can get one of these medicines, and if you can't get to the doctor, I'm just jumping ahead a little bit here. If you're able to in some way, bring down your cortisol levels. Yes, of course, you probably need medical help as well, but would that have a positive effect on these types of skin. Conditions yes, it. It always does actually but. If someone has really bad psoriasis, and that's causing them. Depression I to put the onus on the patient to say like. Yeah, okay, now you have to, but if someone's going through a stressful period, let's say they didn't have acne for a while, but they used to be acne prone, and they start breaking out, and they can be mindful and figure out. Oh! What's going on in my life to cause his flare up? I think being the cool thing about being mindful is that it's free right, but it it takes time and you have to be thoughtful. And I always talk about sleep because cortisol is at its lowest during sleep. And during sleep is when all the anti inflammatory molecules are at their highest, those really great molecules that he'll like growth hormone Beta endorphin until if you bathe your skin in those for as long as possible and for adults at seven and a half to eight hours a night. People like roll their eyes at me when I say that. Is really important. catnaps help to then you could heal these things faster for sure so this is good when people tell me to meditate to have less stress. Could I just like sleep a half an hour more? Yes, yes, unlike this advice, soccer weck of meditation to like feels like that's not for you. Then you shouldn't do it. I'll sleep I like that. Sleep is awesome. Speaking of some other conditions that have a tie distress. I'm not sure if this is your area of expertise, but I've always wanted to ask a guest one of our interviews about this so. Picking like I'm a picker, I feel like literally. Everybody is a picker, but we just two different levels. Talk about how we pick. Our skin or hair are eyebrow. Friends that pick SCABS, other people that pick mosquito bites, or whatever can you explain why we as humans even have that urge like? Why can't we just leave it alone? I think thinking is so interesting. Some people aren't pickers. Really. They're rare, but some people really don't pick it their skin. There's a whole spectrum, but I think it's about part of it's about self grooming, and so I'm a crazy lover of chimpanzees and I last. Last was in Africa last year, and I just I'm like really into Jayne good on all that stuff and I sit there with the chimps, and they're grooming each other, because they're getting bugs off of each other, but also they groom each other, when there are no bugs there to self, soothe or end to sue each other and to decrease anxiety levels, so there's definitely something to manipulating our bodies that is meant to soothe. And so you know people who you see like twirling their hair or inadvertently picking it something it gives a little pleasure, and I think it does decrease your cortisol level, but then sometimes you can scar your skin and leave marks car. The problem obviously there can be. It can be problematic, but a lot of people do something. It's rare in this world for. For someone not to do something to their skin or their hair or their house. It's interesting that there's like a evolutionary biological reason. We do that you said that it can be problematic. Like how do you know when picking habit you might have is like is entering into the realm of okay. We have a medical problem. Will I? How how much time? Time does it take during your day if it's less than a minute, is probably not going to be a problem, but if it's fifteen minutes or more, I always think like that's a lot of time to be picking like each day. I mean I've spent fifteen minutes on like a pimple like pre post. Spot ball that business cleaning it on. You know, but. But you're talking about every day. Someone who's like going over their face and body. Yes, and how do you help these people well? They have to have insight into being a problem, so a lot of people pick in private. They never tell anybody sometimes I'll see it inadvertently. Someone comes in for a skin cancer checks examining their whole body and I see scraps. But. Patients know that I'm psychiatrist and a dermatologist, and they get referred to me for picking or they seek me out because it's bugging them. Some people pick on areas that are always covered by clothing, so no one else would know. And, it's the people who pick their faces. It's so hard to hide. That is their drugs. Like what would you tell you have a friend or a few? Yourself are listening, and you are one of these people and you just like it's. It's a personality trait, but is there a way to fix that will sure so there are some medicines that make picking worse like all the medicines for adhd like Ritalin although stimulants. Can Start, picking. The people can start picking the side effect. Interesting so that's GonNa make people don't often think about that, and there are other medicines that can make it worse than their medicines that can help make it better. A lot of the antidepressants anti anxiety medications help it not that everyone needs medicine for this, but right if someone's. Listening now realizing, Oh, I kind of do that a lot of close myself in the bathroom in front of my Magnifying Mirror for ten to twenty minutes late for data of late for work, because I've kind of lost track of time in the bathroom. That's a sign oth. Maybe I should talk to somebody about that, and it can be a psychologist or psychiatrist or therapist doesn't have to be dermatologist at first though I often work with a psychologist, if it's a really serious thing for the person, so what about somebody who is very focused about their appearance or Very just just to focused or maybe a little dismore fake. How does somebody know if their thoughts are dismore, Vic and even people? Maybe who listeners podcast, we love beauty. This is something that we do for recreation. This is fun but when do we know if the the thinking becomes a little problematic? How can you kind of diagnose that pretty easy for me to diagnose when someone comes in, but the thing is if a person's at home. Many people with body just Moorefield. Don't have insight into it. Like if you think of Anorexia as an extreme example of by disorder, it's the rare anorectic that knows that he or she has that issue. It often takes someone in their life to point it out to help. You never know sometimes so there are patients who go people who go from plastic surgeon plastic surgeon with a perceived imperfection. That isn't there and sometimes I'll get people operate on them. And since there's no way for a doctor in La to know that the doctor in Chicago has opera, people can hide stuff and go but good thoughtful doctors sitting with the patient. Taking a good history can get can get a good sense of. It's hard with those patients because they really believe that they're right. I gently point out that maybe they think something is really bad or disfigured, but it's not like I. Disagree with them and why? and. It's rare in that moment for the person to say Oh. You're right. Doc like this is fine. You know it's the usually need therapy for, but even like the people who haven't gotten to that level like you know I'm not talking about the the kind of cat woman lady who is like who's been jumping from surgeon to surgeon, maybe like somebody that just kind of a little, a little, too obsessed I mean beauty has gone from something that I think. Think the beauty industry has exploded so much in the past five ten years were now. Everybody's really into it. All Ages everyone and it's it's recreation, and it's fun, but I think a lot of people take it very seriously, and everyone's very into their image. That sits in cell. Phones and everything have become now. Everyone is like as a profile. It's become something that I think it's very easy to I've even questioned myself like my to into this like a my. You know I think I. Have a pretty good grip on myself, but sometimes I wonder like how much mental space does this consume in my brain I think anyone who's who's perceptive can think like how how important is this stuff? So do you find yourself asking that question? Maybe not of yourself, but you know of just people who have walked through your office. I myself to yeah yes. And I think if someone is particularly stressed, they might be ultra focused for that moment on that perceived imperfection, and it just seems bigger and worse, but when I talk to them, it's like Oh relationships. Falling apart works bad I'm not saying there's almost always something behind that symptom, and then that's helpful to figure it out. That's really interesting. Can we talk about when it's not a medical problem? I feel like a lot of. Women men, they talk to each other in this way that I found where they'll like. Your friend will say to you like Oh, I hate my nose or like my skin so wrinkly, and I look at these people and I'm like you look fine. Slash amazing, but I don't want to dismiss their concerns, because clearly their concerns, but I also don't want to offer platitudes, so my questions like how do you talk to someone when they bring you their insecurities about their appearance in a way that isn't. Right, so it's all about empathy, so you might want to be like. Are you kidding me like you look amazing? What is she talking about? But like well? Why do you think that like what's going on in? That might be like. Oh, well I, keep seeing all these photos on instagram of so on the list of few people, and then remind mind that there are filters and photos that they think are just like candidates or not candidates, and just like when I was a kid reading vote magazine thinking. Oh my God, like I'll never look like that well. They didn't look like that. either. Without touch-ups, you know photo shopping, and all that stuff so I think part of it is the barrage of social media in photos videos that are meant to look. Natural, no makeup, and all that like this whole thing about having no pores will then you're not a human like everybody has pores. There's no right, so but people like. My pores are so huge, and then you say you're looking at your skin a magnifying mirror. Yes well. Don't because you don't really look like that, so ask questions I. Think is what you're saying. Don't just be like Oh. You're beautiful. Don't worry about it right because then that person thinks oh. She didn't understand me. She didn't hear me and they just still feel crappy. They feel worse because they still have that feeling about himself. La Think Oh and you don't understand. It's good advice so I read this thing. Was This writer G Tolentino? wrote? She was buying like an exfoliating serum, and she said my buying a car or a cleanser, my buying cleanser. Cleanser or a psychological safety blanket and I was like Oh. That is ringing true to me, I think a lot of women find a lot psychological comfort in buying skincare products and using them it could that be actually true, and like why and how would like having a product? Be Comforting mentally. I think it's totally true. I called hoping a bottle. So does the industry, but like you mean like real mental hope, there is a lot of parts to it so first of all some of these products are expensive, and if so someone spends money on herself. It's a good feeling I was able to buy that for myself. This product is so amazing. I was able to buy I saved up in. It's going to be awesome, so there's I that thought well okay. Do Something Nice for myself. And then the packaging is a beautiful in the marketing, and and you buy into it because it says like. GonNa lift or it's. Going to take years off your, whatever it says, whatever excited to buy it a Mike. What is it? What is it, don't you? A. and. Marketing like there's a whole psychology of marketing, right? It means something until there's placebo effect of I bought something I spent money on it. The more expensive it is, maybe the better it is. And it's special smells good. At Bell's bad, so it must be really good for me. I'm missing all. There's that whole thing. And then if if the product has a nice like censorial feel to it, then there is at experience of applying it and feeling good. This is before. It's even done anything to your skin right, so you've probably lower your cortisol level a bit. You've probably lower your heart rate your blood pressure in an just feeling good, and that's a good moment in whether or not that products really doing anything as long as it's not hurting you. I think that's a that's a real boost and I'm okay with it I. Don't like people to spend their last diamond products like that's terrible, I hear those stories like. To me, but for the most part people don't do that. It's more of that monkey self care like retouching ourself with the serum I totally get it when you were talking. Justice is we're like relaxing? Enclosing I was going to a place I was going to my fantasy bathroom that I've built in my head. Yeah, it's an there's an elevated tub. There are plants all around it. There's a huge double saying happy place that sounds awesome so now that we've all like pictured are perfect bathroom and we wanNA apply all these products in the TUB. You guys just carry on okay. She's in the mental tub. So what are some of the things that you do yourself care with like skincare shore, but also like makeup and hair care so I'm not great with makeup. I've taught myself in. My daughter's taught me a lot of stuff on applying I. Make Pretty Well. How old are your daughters? My daughter's always twenty one and my son Jaden is. Okay and Zoe's like really good at make up and she can do like the perfect is that she learned on Youtube like a few years ago. She's she's sort of can do it in both is perfectly. She did my toes last weekend. which is really much better that stuff that I am, but she's taught me stuff, but. It's funny because I was at tomboy growing up and never were makeup I remember my dad telling me like in seventh grade. You know I think he should start wearing some light blue liner your friend. I've never heard usually the. I don't WanNa wear light blue island, but anyway so it's what's funny. That I've been working with Chanel as their skincare consultant for almost ten years and my friends from high school. Tease me because they're like seriously. Miss Tomboy like Now you're Chanel got into it and I've learned a lot from the Chanel team on all that stuff so I'm i. don't i. don't wear makeup on my face, but I always wear sunscreen on a wear, always moisturizer well. It's funny because in quarantine I stopped wearing any makeup announcing patients, but I'm wearing a mask so. I don't even have to worry about. Blush or anything I just put a little under I conceal her. Mascara I go is only so, what do you have a favorite sunscreen? So during the year? When I'm in the city, I wear the Chanel easy essential fifty guys shaky shaky one the little sugar. Shake it up and it's so cool because it has seventeen point one percent zinc oxide in it, but it rubs in. Really cosmetically elegant, but it's it's a tiny bottle. It's pretty thin and when I'm at the beach. I usually lay her a bunch of sunscreens because my skin is so fair, does that help put like? Is it a different product because they have different light? Yes, Oh, okay, so you're getting. All the wavelengths covered I'm getting all the wavelengths covered, and I'm replying every hour like a crazy person, but look how fair am very fair I am, and I have asthma which is at like darkening of the skin from the sun and birth, control, pill, and pregnant and stuff, and it hates the son, so I have to be really careful so I I have some sunscreens from France they. Mostly. The amphibious ones Laroche. Say but only I only liked the ones from France I. Have Some sunscreen from Australia. One called invisible zinc, and then in the US have got the Shinto on, and then there are some much better zinc ones from the US. Right now like even Vino and Neutrogena makes him zinc sunscreens, zinc blocks UVA and UV rays like. It doesn't cog force story about Oh. Is that why you like zinc? You keep saying zinc, but I was like I wonder why zinc so great. Yeah, zinc is awesome, because it works right away blocks UVA MVP doesn't pores can't be allergic to it. It's a mineral. It's not not bad for coral reefs. We're going to get some zinc for sure before we let you go. Though we do this thing with all of our guests we ask them five quick questions like a speed round pressure. This is this is meant to lower your cortisol levels in. DEEP CHESTS! You want to take it away. Ask The question. I'm ready okay. I feel refreshed. I felt rejuvenated. How is the mental tub? That was nice. It was great I. I'm designing it in my mind I. Don't have a house housecat. Designing this bathroom in my mind that is just for me. It's like completely. All about serenity cannot wait to show you okay. So the famous five questions we always ask. What is the first beauty product you fell in love with I'm such a nerd. It was a body moisturizer because I had really really bad exit and dry skin as a kid. Lamy mom got me this vassil in intensive care. It was called. A formula. Oh my Gosh! That's so great into being. Discontinued it like ten years later? I thought my life was over, but then I gotta fill out the. Beauty product, but it really since I was a kid. I have MOISTURIZER, my body, my face to after the shower of my whole life, so you have to do while the skin is damp, bright. Yeah, just I shower a towel off and the skin just like a sponge in sucks it in, and it only takes one to one and a half minutes to do my whole body, so people say that off time like I've timed it you've you've minute I? We have we have no excuse. Okay. That's always my excuse at the time it got to do. Who is a celebrity that you haven't met? But you just know you'd be best friends with Ruth Bader GINSBURG. I'm dying to meet her and we would totally hit it off. I love it I love this. We haven't gotten her yet and we don't have a lot to do. We don't have a lot of dupes I just love that. You said that okay. What's your most indulgent snack and be specific? Your favorite indulgence neck I would say Mala Mars. The best cookie. Would you put it in the fridge? Sometimes although I don't love the marshmallow and the Graham, cracker getting so hard Oh. We can't find him right now. It's summer they only they only sell stock up now for people around the world, so they don't know the only seldom in the fall and winter because they melt in shipment. If it's warm out for our, Australian and UK listeners go on. Just love. Alamar love milner. Okay? WHAT SONG PUMPS YOU UP Steve Winwood while you see a chance? We haven't gotten that one yet. Hi there, but I'm probably dating my. Now we've got a lot of we've we? We've hit all the errors. We have to start the fat Mascara spotify pup list so I would love that. And what do you want to raise a wand to and by Razor Wand? That is like what kind of what product are you obsessed with? TV show movie whatever it is, so I have an answer for all those but kind of preoccupy right now with black lives matter. I can't think about anything else. Raise the WAN to the movement. Raise onto the Movement for shore. Excellent answer. You've been light. I feel like there was a lot of actionable advice in this interview like a lot of things I'm going to do to to end things for our friends and family that we can help them with. Yeah, this is a great conversation. Thank you so much Dr Wexler. Thanks, Jeff. Thanks Jen for having me. This is great. It is time to raise the wind. Remember when I used to sing. Raise the wand Michael do that for you. Oh! God I got about the singing or listeners, probably like no longtime listeners are like. Please don't please don't okay, so let's raise a one first up. We have a listener. Raise the one with a little commentary to like. We told you last week. Please just call us or send us your voice memos. Whatever you're feeling and thinking this is tricia young. Take it away, Tricia. And, just hi, I'm leaving. You guys a message for the first time I WANNA say. Your podcast is just spot on incredibly amazing I. Am a licensed Aestheticians in the state of Massachusetts and I work in sales in hair care with salons. In Massachusetts, so I started listening you probably right before Cova. And Dry for a living so normally I'd listen to you all day long, but now I just get the pleasure of listening really on my drives to and from the forest where I spend all of my time walking, but I just wanted to let you know I love your podcast and being in the beauty industry. It's always great to hear. About everything, obviously, I have my hands in everything. I read everything one thing I wanted to mention. Is You gotTA CHECK? Out Zits DECA. And yes, I said that with the Boston accent I. Don't have a Boston accent, but it's called zits sticker, and it's brilliant I wish I invented it. It is for a blemish it sticks right onto the the top of the blemish. It has little teeny needles in it, and it pokes into the blemish and feeds really good ingredients to kill and clear up that one blemish. You got to check it out. They're not cheap, but they are rockin amazing, so thanks for all you do. Hopefully you can throw this on one of your podcast and talk about Trish. EON gives you ZITS DECA information. Piece Tricia I love it. I love the way he pronounced it sticker. I can tell you those product. That is really cool. They're not like needles. They're like made of. They're made of the ingredient and they barely hurt. When you put the stickers on, so don't think it's a needle needle, but very good products. Nice, raise a wines. If you guys want to send us your raise, Wan's you can email a voice memo to info at Fat Mascara. Dot Com or you can always call us. Our number is hit jen. One day I'm GonNa make you say six, four, six, four, eight, one, eight, one, eight two, Jess. What are you raising a one two? I am raising a wand to finally a dupe a dupe. Dupe for my discontinued maybelline purple eyeliner, so my God, our biggest link out ever on the blog, so many people have you clicked on this line of the just loves so it was this purple liner for getting the the name of it. Maybe it's like Moonlit, purple or something, but it was It doesn't matter because you can't even buy it anymore, but it was a Shimmery Lilac long wear pencil for maybelline from about two years ago, maybe three years ago, and they. They discontinued it I. Don't know why you guys did. That may lean. I know that I've talked to Claire the publicist on numerous occasions about this and there's nothing there's nothing maybelline can do, but they they said goodbye, and I put it on our instagram, because I was like the last the last stroke in the in the Pencil I did my makeup see a month or two ago, and I said you guys have any dukes while you guys are on the case are FM detectives. I have now my Marc. Jacobs beauty. The, Gel I pencil. I think it's the high liner. In s excellent I pencil lunatic. L. U. N.. Lunatic you I don't love the name guys don't love the name I'm not a lunar nerdy. There's a moon reference and both of them maybelline moonlit purple, and then make it was called Moonlit purple. I might have made up moonlit purple, but it was something purples, just for pretend, and it was the lunatic. It's L.. U. N. A.. comprends tick. It is a lilac with silver sparkle in it, and it sounds like it's made for teens and tweens. It's not. It really looks great on like all. All Ages, it's not to let clubby It's great right now. It really is the ultimate dupe. It's a little too expensive. Those twenty six dollars as also twist up. Those airliners are worth it. Oh, they're good. They don't drag her polar. Skip at all like especially. If you have crappy leads like I'm getting like even with little wrinkles. You can still get a really inside so great, and you don't have to sharpen it. Get The shavings everywhere. It's twist up liner. Love it. Okay, I'm raising a want. To foot file here it is. I brought a visual for you girl. My feet are a mess so between the I've been wearing the cast or the boot whatever for the broken foot. I think because the other foot is now getting harder working because it's carrying the weight of everything, other foot's not working the calluses on the front of my toes I. Don't know if it's also 'cause. It's summer and you could see them more. You know I had the electric file which I use for the bottom, but there was nothing like my second toe there so crooked now my feet. The second toe is bigger than I. Oh, and it just gets this weird callous on top. The only thing that I have found that that works is the Checchi I. Hope I'm pronouncing it right. personal care product razor file. File it's a diamonds laced file. I've had this thing I want to thank I. WanNa say seven years maybe six or seven years, I've never gotten a new file for it. It has never gone down. It's like diamond powder on it, and you just file it in the shower when your feet or damp, and it gets rid of any callous. Even those fancy electronic one I have like doesn't do it the way this thing does so. It's twenty four bucks, but I'm telling you. You never have to replace this thing. It is truly been in my shower for It's probably more than seven years, so raise the. The one to this. I'll put a link with a while. The water's running or after when you're showers done, do it while the water's running at the very end of the shower while it's warm. Because you will get, you'll see. It'll get on it like the little bits of dead skin, so then I wanna keep rinsing under the warm water while I keep going, and it doesn't hurt you know how some of them are just like kind of painful and then the police stones. They're just found. Cut It. Don't cut it I need some of this Checchi Shit. It's good so I'll link out to it's you guys? Guys can have smooth feet all summer them. Thanks, thanks for listening. Our show is produced by astral media. Be Sure to follow us on Instagram at Fat Mascara. GO TO FAT MISCARRIAGE DOT COM to get a link to our private facebook group and hit us up. If you have a beauty question, you can send it to us at Info at Fat Mascara Dot Com. We'd love if you send US voice memo. We also want to hear your reason. Ones send those to the same address INFO at Fat Mascara. Dot Com and if you like what you're hearing, please leave us our view on. Itunes just throw some stars.

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