20 Episode results for "Fort Drum"

Show #678: Working on Finances as a Couple

Army Wife Talk Radio

58:11 min | 1 year ago

Show #678: Working on Finances as a Couple

"Locked talk radio. Attention army wives fall in you've come to the right place. Talk radio is the leading and longest running hot. It's providing the latest reports, stories interviews and more. How're you on your military Faust journey four army wives by? Now, you're you're the army network. I'm your host, crystal Niehoff, and we have a great show planned for you tonight. You'll learn the art of handling finances as a couple with our guest. Cindy and Mike crow financial advisers with I command, my consent, he will show her share valuable tips and advice for maintaining a healthy relationship, healthy financial relationship with your spouse. And co-host Mannix and today is Monday February fourth two thousand nineteen and this is our six hundred seventy eight show AWT are is be leading and longest running podcast of its kind. If you're listening to our show by right now, we're hanging out in Twitter and would love to chat with you. Head over to Twitter dot com forward slash army wife network using hashtag army wife to participate links to all the resources. We mentioned tonight. We'll be posted in our Twitter feed. And in the comment section below this podcast on blog, talk radio dot com. And tonight show is brought to you by our AWS. Our show sponsor, I command command is committed to helping our nation's military families financial future worthy of their service. Visit their website at first command dot com to learn more. Well, Mandy, I'm so excited. Welcome back to the show and two eight of you in now, our listeners may recognize your name or your voice you were on our core team a couple of years ago. And now you're back as our special projects coordinator. Yeah, we need an opponent. Goodness gracious. I really feel like we have so much catching up to do. So what's been going on in your life? All these years. Oh my goodness. Well, we've moved a few times. So I think when I was doing this army. Yeah. We were at fort Lee Virginia. And then I think bright towards the and we moved to fort drum New York. And so we were there for a few years, and then we just recently moved back to Fort Hood, Texas. So this is our second time here, and we already had a house here and everything from Amir here before so kicked out renters move back into our house and made it right at home. Let's see what else I had had another baby. So. Great. Thank you. They can. Yeah. We had another little girl, Emily, and she was a PCS baby. As I call her. We left New York in October and the two four foot mid October. And she was born beginning of November. So wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's kinda cool though. Because my first daughter Aubrey was born here. So the same doctor and everything it's not very often that feel like as a military family your kids are born in the same place. But my were I just. And. Yeah. That was that was one of the first things. I did what I found out. We were moving back here. You know, because I was very pardon. It was called her please take me. Okay. I'll take you. Call. That's. Did you guys? Even have your household goods. By the time. She was born or having a I have a chance to pack. We did. So it was just like a week before. She was worn, thankfully, my husband was still on leave. So he just attack the entire. I didn't do a thing. So it was one of the best PCS is because. Back single thing. Well that worked out. Well, that's cool. 'cause that would be you know, that'd be difficult. Oh, I remember being huge and pregnant and just going like grow going grocery shopping is a major undertaking. And I remember one time right before my second daughter was Ford my or my sister wanted made to go shopping with her, and we drove to Joplin when I lived in Kansas and Joplin, and I remember I was so miserable. I mean. I was just so miserable. Because I was I well looking back. I was swelling up. And I was getting some my pressure was going up. So she was delivered three days later. So I can't imagine that's like nothing compared to trying to PCS in the middle of it. Yeah. I remember. And I I remember being very very miserable. But I think that the anticipation of it was worse than what it actually was, thankfully, we had a very smooth PCS, and I help to that we have been here before. So we knew where everything was, you know, we knew the area we still have several friends that are here friends that we made the aren't you know, that aren't military. So they are still here, and we actually have a few friends that met at fort drum that PCS here one right about the time. We did. And then another one just a few months before that like really helps to I think it was a brand new place. I think it would have been a lot more stressful, but it was smooth. And then I think just coming to a place that was the million made it made is a lot better. So we're back. I've been back Texas glad to view win. So what's the weather like? It's actually been it was really nice today. It was like either grease here, which is unusual for this time of year. A little or central Texas. But that's not. Yeah. Yeah. Was was very nice. And when you're used to that eighty degree weather now. Right. That'll be one thing when we PCS at all misses the Hawaii weather so like right now, and I was trying to look right now. It is sunny and seventy six degrees, and we're just now at three o'clock in the afternoon. So we're still in the afternoon, but that is high and so it's a nice day. And I went for a Walker earlier. And so I am a little spoiled just a little. But I am feeling island fever. They warned me before we moved here that some friends who were here before us that island fever is a very real thing. And I thought, you know, I'll be flying back to the mainland at least once or twice a year. Anyway. And so I can do all my my stuff, then, you know, the mainland these things I don't even think that the word. But yeah. Kind of. Yeah. There's surely stuff to do in Hawaii. And you know, we're we're kind of homebodies anyway. And so we like to get plugged in with our community. And so we'll be fine. No, I am. I have island fever. I'm ready to get back to the mainland of. And it's great here. But it does it starts to close in after a while. But I'm a Kansas girl at heart. So I'm used to wide open spaces not being surrounded this little island. You know? 'cause it only takes a oh about forty five. Well, there's traffic, but it's not very wide. We can drive around the entire island in three hours. So isn't it? Yeah. It's a lot smaller than I had in. Debated. But but not. There's definitely worst places to be and so not complaining there whether them, and my family is has been suffering with the cold and in Kansas and my husband's family and Chicago. So my heart school out to all ya'll that there. I'm using my Texas accent there for you, Mandy. Right now. Yeah. That was my old then so bad my husband, and I we were we were not laughing, but just like so thankful that we're not in New York anymore because they're at fort drown. They got gosh. I think like close to four feet of snow like last week. So. And we never got up to four. I think like three list that we got and they had actual blizzard warnings. And we never had an actual blizzard. What we were there. So I was like all that fun there. Glad we're there. Yeah. So glad. Well, we're kind of shaking things up a little bit moving things around and doing things a little bit different on the show tonight. We're going to go ahead and bring our guests on. I'm totally excited for this interview. So on the phone with me now is Cindy and Mike crow financial advisers with I command Cindy's graduate of Hawkeye college, Cindy joined the first command financial services as a financial adviser in may twenty twelve and is a member of the San Antonio north chamber of commerce and the spouses club before him Houston. Speaking of Texas, she enjoys photography cooking, water activities and spending time with her husband and three children. And my doing for its command financial services as a financial adviser in January of two thousand seventeen following twenty year career in the United States. Army an active member of community, Michael with the USO the Texas veterans commission. They're pounding military transition center and Syrian military alliance. Both bear accounting military transition center and Syrian military, alliance assists with the transitioning of servicemembers interesting fact about Mike is that along with having the opportunities to jump in tandem with the Golden Knights. He's also pursuit pursuing a doctor of business administration degree how awesome welcome to the show city. Mike, we are excited to have you here on with us tonight. Hello. Thank you. All right. Well, guys, let's get started. And why don't you tell us a little bit about your marriage? Maybe how long been married how long you were an active duty early family anything else. You wanna share? What does? Okay. We've been married for about thirteen years. We're blended family. So are married all I've known as the military. He when he retired in sixteen you know, after twenty years of service how we met we're both born and raised in Iowa. So we met in Iowa and we retired. He retired out of Fort Hood. And when we were we got fiction here and nine and we've been here I've been here ever since. 'cause he kinda went around and did his finished up his career. It was pretty much. I told a funny joke is just. Yeah. Funny got them. To. I mean to funny. Well, that's good, buddy. You know, mid westerners coming down to Texas where Ridgely from Ohio, and we're down here in Texas now home, so We love it, though, rare. We do too. We did too. It's so nice. So tell us a little bit about how you both. Stay connected to the military now that Mike has retired. I think we do that through we loved a volunteer. And so we do all of our aren't volunteering is a lot that has connected with the military. So creating that partnership with the military's are voluntary's. Whether it's through the spouses club AMC, exhilarating through the chamber. There's different military alliances. There the USO and a lot to stay connected with the military. And that's what we enjoy. Most. Also, I'm a. I'm a. The army teaches a lot of plight suicide invented schools training assist. It's a two insist training, and actually I I've entiere two or three times a year four sent Houston institute class or get a health leader identify help servicemembers with a they have suicide, I e Asians. That's fan. Thank you for doing that. I know that I'm sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt. I really appreciate that. You do that. 'cause I my husband's a chaplain, and we have just seen the suicide rates. It's that is a very needed program. So thank you so much forgiving your time. There. Or? Oh, so now that you're both. I command financial advisers. Tell us a little bit about how that happened. And also what it's like working together. Well, whenever it's fired. I did her fellowship. And my biggest thing is how can you back to military? The military been great for me my family, so how can get back, and I got really good resumes. And so that's why my fellowship was hoping veterans and servicemembers with a me for their lawn to education process, but the the the company I did my internship. Really wasn't a good fit this way, put it. But now I. Line of I command since two thousand two we've been client. And also as a spouse adviser, I knew the Comey was a good fit. Not just, you know, for me for us where you know, just what the values and that was really motivates me my values in action. And so that's that's really brought me out long. Also, I've a very successful mentor, and I can talk to twenty five day. That's kinda host things too. You know, I work with a lot of clients that goes through the transition from being active duty to that second career. And you see a lot of people will job hop, and you know, that's one of the things or they struggle with that resume getting those military turns into civilian terms to communicate what they experience and what they're capable of doing. And when you have they're going to that second career in a struggle because their core values don't match what they've done over the last twenty thirty plus years, that's very very important. If you're gonna go to second career to find a company that you know, the core values match. Right. Right. Well to me and Mike. It sounds like you're pretty focused on financial security and passionate about helping other military families pursued that goal has it always been that way for you. I would say, yes. Yeah. We've always been leaders throughout our whole life than our careers. I think it's naturally you learn as you go, you know, sometimes I always say, well, if I'd known back, then what I know now, but if done things a little differently, and you know, you can share that would people. But yeah, I mean, we've always been planners we've been transparent we set goals, we respect them. But we always have short term and long term goals. And that's something that we've always some goals and planning so then it kind of natural fit for. Ever have to change the way, you think about money or personal finances or has it has being a financial adviser change that. Say it changed. Do we we have a little bit more insight of the actual or nothing bolt? But at ten you mentioned ball, minus Bobby hate you. You really have to promote that behavior of of having a pay yourself for and send them off to the side. And everything else. That's come whereabout. What we do you know as far as the actual goal set in meeting that. But in that helped by being provided we can really see, and and you know, dig into we've that way. But really, it's it's all become becomes behavior. And like I said he says there's a natural maturation of finances. I know I wasn't the smartest when I join. Army? But, but you you learn and that's the that's the key. You gotta take every lesson. In learn grow in that try to repeat it. I'll share it rolling story. You know when it comes to finances. So, you know, we do comprehensive planning, but, you know, those investments and insurance and banking and budget, and how does it all tied together? But when we were first married, and it was a shortly after that when the market did a big turn, or and we got our statements, and you know, I'm kinda new to you know, the dollar cost averaging and some of the aspects, and he just looked at me, and he's just don't even open. It just silent in the filing cabinet. You don't wanna look at our investment statements like yeah. But but but but but he says no don't don't open. It. Don't look at it. And I'm like, yeah. But he says we're not retiring yet just don't open it. So I did I filed it away, you know, for a few months and the the market came back up and he's the seat soldier. And I looked at some of those that I didn't open like. My goodness. But that that's part of dollar cost averaging to where you know, some people just don't really understand that concept, and it was fairly. I knew it, but you know to experience it and to really live it is different things. But that. Good advice to I can relate to that. So well because my husband is an investor, and so when we were first married, and he hit them this before we got married, and so when we were first married, and I was looking, you know, opened up the statements, and you know, I knew and I knew what we had. And then the market was on a downward spiral for a little while there. And I remember the first statement after that I wish I would've known that been because it was almost a panic mood. That's really awesome advice. Mark. Right. You're thinking of it for retirement that is such good advice as one that rings so true with me. Well, my concern that we do need to take a quick break. But when we come back, let's really dive into the issues that money problems can cause. And then also discuss how to maintain a healthy financial relationship between couples. Okay. And listeners you can connect with I command and get connected with financial advisor near you by going to Facebook. I commend Twitter up. I command or you can visit the website. I command dot com. Stay tuned. We've got more army wife talk radio just a moment in just a moment. And we'll continue our interview with Cindy and Mike reasons that keep your old car. This is the money minute from charge -cation foundation in military money dot com. Here a few great reasons why you should hold onto that clunker a little while longer. One not having to make a car payment every month amounts to huge saving than personal fund, which may help you start that retirement savings or pay down debt to if you just paid off your car start saving for a new one continue to make your car payment by setting aside in an interest bearing account three a new car begins to depreciate in value. It soon as you drive it off the lot expect to lose. At least fifty percent in value. The first five years of owning a new car compare that to the cost of maintaining your current car over the next five years four if you purchase a new car plan on paying significantly higher insurance premiums and tag renewal fees. Five lafley before you purchase that shiny new car. Consider how much you drive for exam. People. It may not make sense to buy a new car if you were servicemember who spends most of the year, deployed there's money minute made possible by incharge, that's solutions. Visit us online at WWW dot in charge dot org. Me. Why are we going to the store? Mom. Mom. Mom. Your child will have different needs at different stages of life. And that includes the car seat. See car crashes are a leading killer of children ages one to thirteen protect your child's future at every stage of life. Go to safercar dot gov slash the right seat. A message from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Ad Council. band. Your military information to ours. Army wife network dot com. Offers military family news and resources experience and expertise loves social media and much much more than army wife network dot com. Your interactive. By the way. Welcome back to the show. Valentine's Day is just around the corner. So on this episode, we're discussing the art of handling finances as a couple with our guest. Cindy and Mike crow financial advisers with I command sending my before we went to break you were sharing with us about being focused on financial security and helping other military pursue that goal. It. It seems like money problems are always listed as the top cause of marital problems and divorce in the United States. Is this something that you observe yourselves in your financial advisory practice? By no means are we actors, but. We we really do believe that there. There was me reasons and causes for divorce that that seem to stack and is just one of its it may not be the group they're just stack but one that manager of sitting what they act coach or somebody face to help Lee. Did you guys get get coupled on her share share mission that has it helped villa transparency? What for? Yeah. And I think it's you know, many times. Yeah. We'll help people and it's just coming up with that common goal or that common, bud. A lot of times you'll see once about has their own budget and then other stuff has their own budget, and that's play. But it's it's important to know how those two budgets combined together for one budget, and sometimes it's just sitting down and going line by line and putting it on the white board. You know, we show people different ways, you know, how the money coming in and going out and transparency very important. We show them different ways to use their Bank accounts to track their money and organize that as spend their money opens of occasion. Yeah. A lot of times that if people have not third person to help them with that budget. And there's transparency and they understand the common goal, and they get to create that new habit behavior. You know, I've had one client call me back like three months after we got a head nod from both of them on the budget. And they were all good understanding how things are working taking to blending and into one. He called me out of the blue one day. And he says I can't thank you enough. Then I sit for what and he's helping us with our budget. He's just that's one thing we've always struggled, and we always fought and argued about with money, and he goes the last three months, we have not argued one. And he's just I think they have you thanks for that. So I really that that really took to my heart. And and they still, you know, we'll say that you have no budget problem. You know, they talk it out, but they, you know, have coffee once a month and over their budget, and what good what was that? And how we get back on track. If we need to and they just created some new hap- healthy habits. Well, what a great testimony to what you're doing. I love that. Because you're really helping couples work together on a budget, which you can just having a neutral third party can really make a difference. They have you noticed like with military couples. Do you feel that many issues is a particular problem for them? Yeah. A lot of times because a lot of them. Badges say, they're just living check to check. 'cause they know that checks in the b. Where you know, we always say important to have out of sight outta mind. Three to six months of your monthly expenses in emergency fating. You know, so emergencies arise you use your own money and not a credit card, and that that's a portent to understand that balance. You know bottom line you gotta learn to live on less much firms. So you can pay yourself first for more secure tomorrow. Do you ever have couples that come on? Go ahead. Not to get too deep into we. But can like what what Cindy said, you know, when you think of a brand new soldier, you know, especially a new one to a single, you know, they're they get three hot cop off their tire their entire pace, basically discretionary dollars, and then they ball mature, it becomes duping. Sometimes that'd be Hager is difficult to break because it. Wait for two or three years. Now, they have a family of different possibilities. And this is I'm just thinking out loud. But I'm just saying, you know, there isn't thing about some have be said about cream. Good behaviors at the gig. Go to foster good behaviors later on. Oh, that's so true. That is an excellent point. And I was wondering do you have military couples that come in that maybe he's deployed or going to be deploying or they're doing what we call GO batching, you know, once living in one state and the other maybe in Korea or somewhere, and are are you able to help them? Yes. We actually were that GIO at one point for for years. He was brag and Fort Stewart and Ord hood, and I was here. So we were empty nesters. And so it wasn't as difficult, but it still had its challenges. So yes, we know that that the different households. And how do you blend that together and heels really identifying monthly expenses from daily expenses. And and how do you I select those with maybe a couple of different Bank accounts. And, you know, talk them through that you use different Bank accounts for different things. It's kind of like the modern day envelope system. And not helps people understand that. 'cause you know your budget, and when you put money in an account, you have to track it when it's gone. It's gone. That's very important. So yes, we've helped people and that's the thing about that face to face relationship. We sit down. Hey, this is an idea for. But let's see what you have. And let's come up with a plan that's going to work for you. Yeah. Sounds like you individualize it, and it really comes from having been there yourself. You know, what military families are going through because you've been through that yourself. So what are some tips and techniques that used to just for helping couples develop and maintain a healthy financial relationship? Well, I think again transparency you've gotta understand that down together to your goals communicate on a regular basis. So important over the budget. You know, hey, this is what came in what we? Did we stay within our budget? And then where we put in that extra. If there was leftover, you know, do we need to readjust her budget? What I like to use? Coz by no means and my small guy. I mean, I'm not too big. But I don't like a small coat, and so I I liked it. Why talk to my clients is you're paying he's still like a good comfortable coat. There's no room for a little flexibility. You can eat to move because it's almost like a diet. If you're too constricted. You're breaking. You're never gonna get back on. So it's comfortable as a little bit less, right? Last two. Then it's easier to to stay within the budget, and it's easier to maintain the budget over long periods. Tom 'cause nothing we're talking about is that happen within a month, two, months or six months. I mean this. You know, when you're funny got really think one five ten fifteen twenty years out have different stages, and it's it's gonna happen. There's some come up or whether it's a need or one von trouble. It's so still gonna be good. And you know, and I didn't sure our oldest son is active duty and his wife is active duty. And so sometimes, you know, here in younger generation that we're like sometimes there's just so short thinking about just today. And we were reminded that you gotta think about your future. And you know in the beginning, they're like, well, what if we don't ever get there? And I'm like, well, let's plan and keeps you. And so, you know, having that active the help communicate as well. I think value added for me as well when it comes to up and two different generations. Absolutely. And those are some really good tips guys. And you know, specially you're talking about, you know, the younger generation and just looking forward to the future because it really is important to that. And I think a lot of times there's some perspective loss there. And then might I really into your your diet reference because it's true. And it's it's actually very, you know, kind of relatable in that sense that I know a lot of people are, you know, dieting and being healthier, and and so good reference like that very like like, so let's kinda talk. I know, you know, you've probably got a lot of our listeners pretty interested. Now in just some of the things that you've shared with the just kind of explain what wo- of professional financial advisor could play in helping a couple reach financial unity. Well, I think it's it's you know, finding that face-to-face coach that you can sit down and work with and work through your make a plan and create that written plan for you and your family. It's so important and then being coached along life's journey. So we're here for you for lifetime on the life financial coach and work the dish year. So it's not about is about the client. What's in your best interest and sitting down with someone to understand all your options? So that you can make a good form decision. A lot of times sit down with people and say, well, you know, the those I wanna do and I'm like, well, you Penn do that. But are you where you could also do this or that? And they're like, no, I didn't know I do that. And so helping people understand their options, we all get. Really good proficient at different things within our careers or professions and hard to really know everything there is to know in life. And sometimes you need to lean on professionals to help you through some of those things to make sure you understand all your options. I'm just gonna go with what she said. Good choice. No. Now, that's good though, because I'm sure that, you know, the coaching and even probably a little bit of the accountability to you know, kinda help couples just kinda push push towards that unity. I I know I I'm I think. I was just gonna say, I think all the wives all his wives are Levin. Mike right now. All right. We before we let you go tonight. Can you please minus for listeners can go to learn more or to find financial advisor this near them? That we have our website. You can go to for command dot com, and you can go in looking for an advisor near me and put your code in. And you can look up and see or you can fill out. There's a couple of different sections on our new web sites that allow you to go through and look at how to sign up. And I believe the Twitter and. Yeah. Facebook link also Twitter Facebook, and then command that from. Yeah. We're by yet. I come in. I was just looking up your links. So Facebook at first command Twitter at first command, really easy to find y'all and the website. I command dot com. Well, send him I really appreciate you coming on the evening, and helping us to really have a happy and healthy financial relationship with our significant others. It's been such a pleasure to speak with you. Very much. Thank you for inviting us and finance is fun. So just be transparent and sit down and communicate. Thank you so much have a great evening, right friends. You all to? Bye. All right listeners links to all of the resources, you mentioned tonight will be posted in our Twitter feet. And in the comments section below this podcast on blocks, talk radio dot com. And if you're listening to our show why right now, we are hanging out in Twitter and would love to chat with us. So head on Twitter dot com slash arm. US network using hashtag army way to participate. Don't go anywhere. We've got even more army wife talk radio coming your way up next is our new six windy with your Neetu. No news. We'll be right back. Hey there. I'm crystal Hof owner of army wife network. Army wife, talk radio is two longest running podcast of its kind since two thousand five and we're now on our thirteenth year with over sixty thousand listens per month. We're probably talk show, not a rehearsed or edited podcast and powered entirely by volunteers. Who are just like you sharing our military spouse journeys with you because we're all in this together. Eight of UT are strives to provide an interactive experience was relevant for mation and exciting guest. So you come away from each episode informed. Encouraged in empowered army wife network, truly is your interactive empowerment, four army wives by army wives things. For listening. Family. news you can use with our headlines time for your army wife. Talk radio live news six reports. Welcome back. We have our new six windy on the line bringing us your need today. News. Hey, wendy. What have you got for us this week? This week is all about try care them domed them. It's not all doom and gloom though. Tonight. We will bring down a few important considerations. When learning how to navigate TRICARE insurance. All right. I like your dome. I think one of the biggest questions that we all have about. Try care is probably the two plans offer can you tell us a little bit more about those plans. Sure as you said, try care offers two main options for service members and their families track of your prime and truck hair select truck, your prom offers fewer out of pocket costs and truck here. Select but less freedom of choice for providers. According to Hawaii army weekly when making an enrollment decision. How do you know which truck here plans are best for you and your family? Visit the truck air plan finder to determine which plans best meets your family's needs. Remember that different family members? Maybe eligible for different plans. You can also use the compare plans tool to compare health plans side by side, be sure to take some time to consider which plan will work for your family because you may only choose changer enrollment when you or a family member experiences a qualifying life event or Q L E such as marriage birth of a child or retirement from active duty or during the annual track care open season, which is usually toward the end of each year. That's definitely super important information for military families, especially for those who are new to try care. One of the biggest misconceptions out. There seems to be the try care with try cares that everything is free. Did you find anything that if planes the out of pocket costs with try care? Well, depending on who who you are and the plan you have you may have to pay some out of pocket costs use the track hair compare cost to to view your costs and compare them with other plans to track here costs and fees. She also provide an overview of truck airplay on cost. So when you tell telephone, but about what happens if you have a qualifying life of that were your address changes. Okay. Well, that's a really good question. It's important that you keep your contact information up to date and defense enrollment eligibility reporting system, which we all know is veers anytime, you experience a change or Q L E that qualifying life event, but they years as soon as you can you have several options for updating your information which include online by phone or by mail. You must keep your information. Updated and deers to remain eligible for truck hair coverage. Grease information to keep in mind. Do you have any additional information about health insurance or advice to those who are new to using care? Sure since we're talking about health insurance. It's also a great time to mention the try care dental plan with United concordia take note that family members independence are not enrolled in dental coverage, and you have to either enroll through the phone online or through the mail to set that up see the link and the show notes for assistance enrolling in the Tri care dental program now onto my best device. My best advice is to study, the plans and truck hair. If you already haven't insurance plan, it will remain your primary insurance and try care will be the secondary insurance. And till you call them to have that changed. I made the mistake and thinking when I left my career that my primary insurance would just draw. But boy was I wrong. I went through a time getting it removed and try careless that is the primary insurance. Don't assume like I did that when your information changes it will automatically update you'll have to do that yourself by calling them and logging into the. My access center to put in certain updates for questions about eligibility. Ide- cards all the DMDC support office one eight hundred five three eight nine five two if you'd like to learn more about military insurance. Check out the website, WWW dot TRICARE dot mil. When the thank you very much for all of this, wonderful information. I know that there are a lot of questions when it comes to try care. So I'm sure that this information is going to hold a lot of military families to better understand TRICARE. You bet. Well, Mandy before we sign off tonight. Let's find out what's hot on eight of you in this week hot in our social media. One thing that eight of units named for is are awesome graphics recently. We posted a graphic. You know, your mill spouse if you know, what an MR is. And you have a favorite, and we had some great responses Elena commented that she went through her husband's hold military career with him from the beginning until he retired. And honestly never felt the need or even the ones to try any Emily shared that the garlic and herb chicken is pretty good. And that her soldier likes? The chili MAC served cold and said that she likes the chicken Tetra Zini then shared that her soldier totter that in a survival situation the spoon burns for about ten minutes. Usually long enough to dry out firewood did to know. So Mandy, do you know what the acronym for M R E stands for? I sure do it stands for meal ready to eat with the previous and prepackaged meal used by US military personnel. Awesome. Do you have favorite heavy retried one? Okay. I'm gonna be honest. Have it really actually? Tried one. Okay. So I I've tried to pound cake because I heard that it's pretty good. And it is pretty good. But I haven't really tried anything else. Some kind of with Alina. She's just really never felt the need or want to try any. That's kinda my kinda see up on it too. But I did try the pound cake, and for whatever reason and my husband likes to save the little like what napkins the little wet nap that come with them. And so I'm always on our bathroom counter 'cause he puts them in his pockets, and then he takes them out. But he never use them. So narrowly sure what you think is important exactly like I case of z enough. But. Yes. I'm like some. I've never actually tried. When myself either my husband brought a couple couple of home. I think one was like goes on your spaghetti. And I don't remember what the other was and the kids tried them. But. Yeah. I I don't know. I just I just didn't really have any desire to try it. So I've heard someone. Okay. But when my husband told me that they're packed with calories. You know? That's why they're so small and they're packed with calories because you know, when you're out in the field. You can't lug a bunch of food around with you. So every little bite count. So I that was another. Maybe I don't want to. I was on a diet at the time. So I passed. Yeah. It's just I I have heard about it. So I heard this could be wrong. So funny of our listeners out there. No better. Let us know. But the chart look, it's it's bad luck. If you get the charms or eat, the charm, the little candies little like kind of like saver type candies that are in there. I I don't know. That's what I've heard. I think I could be wrong on that. Maybe it's good luck. I think it's fabulous. So so anyway listeners right answer to that. There's a good one for. Yeah. We didn't do. I don't know. Now, I wanna know enquiring mind, I know, so, but you can read even more comments and share your favorite 'em or e or answer. Mandates question is that good luck or bad luck? Pete's a little candy. That's in the Emari so go our army. Network face or the little the little face that or army wife network Facebook page, Twitter or Instagram to find that graphic. All right and under AWS, log this week. Did you know that you're a seventeenth is national kindness? Say AWS blog contributor has new place reminds of that being gracious and generous doesn't have to end what the Christmas season we can keep that kind of going. Even now that we're into study wary every time we think about love and Valentine's Day, so not only their music element. But spreading love to others. However, we often the acts of kindness and generosity was spending money, but after holidays our wallets aren't likely busting with cash. So then he gives us a list of ways that we can spread kindness to others for free or nearly free that the base of fifty so thought flea reminds us, and as the old thing goes it takes twenty one days to form a habit. So how nice food it be? If we commit to be kind and let kindness or new. You can head on over to up. Log at army wife network dot com to read Tiffany's blog, be kindness. You know, Tiffany's blog really is such a great reminder that kindness is something that we should strive to practice your round not just during the holidays. So what about you Mandy, do you make a conscious habit to practice kindness? You know, I really do try to and mostly for me kind of Michael on that is that you know, I have my two goals, and especially my older, my younger one, she's only three months old. So she, you know, she doesn't really get that yet, you know, with my younger with my older daughter, Aubrey, you know, she's going to be turning for here in a couple of weeks and truth really getting to that age or she's interacting with children and others, and and just really our society. And so for me, I'm trying to make a conscious. How the processing kindness hippie is good example for her because I want her to grow up, and I want her, you know, I want her to grow up processing for stuff and not having not being something that is you have to do. But something that's just instilled in his character. So I think for me as a mom, it's just something that are just really trying to do. To all the time just with them. That's awesome. Yeah. My kids one thing I do is. You know, it's never out of styles never out of date to write a thank, you know, you know. So after they receive a gift, I have them, right and mail. A thank you note to the giver, and you know, that's just personal touch. Everybody loves to get something good in the mail, this not bills or or junk mail. And so that's one thing that I do. But it's kind of my my personalities always been to think of others before myself. But we're talking about that. And I was thinking. Yeah, that's something that really wasn't stilled in me as a child, and so you're right. It's so important to pass that onto our kids because if we pick up that habit when we're young we're like what Mike and Cindy were saying earlier if you pick up that a good habit when you're younger. It's much easier to follow as you get older instead of trying to teach an old dog new tricks. So. True. That is true. I it's funny say that about the thank you cards to because I'm a big thank you hard writer, and I always same thing with my daughter. I mean, she can't really right yet. She's just knowing how to name, but I always kind of think, you know, we talk about it. And I make her like color picture, but like on the other cars. This. We oh this is tweeting. I love kids. There's they're just so innocent. And how you know they just really want to to do such sweet things for other people. And I love that. So that is just awesome. Well, that's it for our show tonight thinks listener so much for tuning in be sure to join us next week Monday, February eleventh twenty nineteen to find out about the veteran and military spouse e mentor program with our guest, Nikki Schuler. And you can stay connected to resources information, Burt calmest and share the journey with many alerts contributors on army wife network dot com, or you can follow along on any of our social media outlets such as Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest and Instagram. Tonight show is brought to our EDEM UT. Our show sponsor, I command. I command is committed to helping our nation's military families, build a financial future worthy of their service. Visit their website at first command dot com to learn more. Adr, a direct link is also being posted in our Twitter feed. And in the comments sections, low this podcast. We are your interactive empowerment for army wise by army wise. This is army wife networks Cortines dining out. Thank you tuning into army wife, talk radio the views and opinions expressed in our show or personal army wife talk radio is in no way, affiliated with the department of defense or any other friends of the armed services and inclusion in our show does not reflect endorsement by the DOD any local government or their agencies until the next episode over army wife network dot com. Interactive empowerment for army wives by army wives.

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S5 E7 - Story of You (w/ Special Guests: Dave Flounders & Kathleen Saucier)

Courage to Fight Again

48:45 min | 2 months ago

S5 E7 - Story of You (w/ Special Guests: Dave Flounders & Kathleen Saucier)

"Before we start the show today. I want to tell you three things number one here in Alabama. You never know what the weather is going to be like and the guest on my show today had to turn off for Wi-Fi had talked to their 4G with their phone and we just made do as best we could so you may hear the audio cutting in and out a little throughout the show, but I don't think that really takes away from their message and walk or doing for veterans. So be sure to listen through the entire show. It's a really really great listen number to next week September 15th, 2020 resolved the book for veterans hits the shelves. I could not be more excited and pre-orders are open now. So head over to courage to fight again, to get your copy finally the day before the book launch the evening before actually September 14th at 7 p.m. Eastern time. I'll be going live on the courage to fight again faced dog. Page with a very special guest. His name is Raymond lot also known as the Marine rapper and we are going to have so much fun together. You are definitely am not going to want to miss it. So make sure you tune in things are different now coronavirus that we're dealing with. We're trying to fix the centuries-old problem office temic racism. We're dealing with a deep recession. We have no idea what the economy will look like in four weeks let alone for years and we're wondering if things will ever get back to some sense of normal and yet One Thing Remains the Same we're all still human and you know, what, we as humans should have always loved a good story. Once upon a time there lived a beautiful princess or it was a dark and stormy night or he's skipped along without a care in the world unaware year of the faked that would befall him precisely 17 minutes from this very moment. And the most compelling stories are those we can relate to on a personal level where we can put ourselves in the shoes of the characters who stories we are experiencing. This is season 5 and on this season of the show, I get to sit down with veterans from all over the country and just listening off. I'm sure I'll ask a few questions here and there but what you're going to remember from these episodes are the veterans who are sharing their own stories stories of service stories of transition of challenges of successes. This is season 5 story of you. Well, this is season 5 and we are actually in the downhill slide of season five. This here is episode seven and this is absolutely flown by I can't believe we're already at episode 7, but I am still incredibly excited about all the amazing guests we've had on the show so far and this week is no exception with me on the line. I have Dave flounders and Kathleen Saucier life. I know I got that name, right because I asked her before we even started they have such a unique thing that they are doing for veterans and and and I told them before we started reporting tonight. I said you're doing such a unique thing and wrapping up kind of a package to solve so many veterans problems all Under One Roof, so you're dead. Hear about that. They're going to tell us about that during the show, but first Dave and Kathleen. I just want to welcome you to to courage to fight again. Thank you. Erin both Dave and I am so honored to have a chance to share our mission with you and everyone on the show. That's listening today will also awesome. It is so so good to have you guys so long I kind of on purpose did not get a bio from you guys cuz I did not want to just read off your bio and say hey, these are all the cool things they've done this is where they've lived. So Dave why don't we just start with you and not tell the audience who you are introduce yourself and share your story a little bit. All right, I'll start at all the way back when raised in Pennsylvania. Went to the University of Pittsburgh on a running and academic scholarship back in 1981 spent two years in college for pre-med and then President Bush and cut the budget and I ended up going in the Navy. So went in the Navy spent ten years active duty 3 years in the reserves and then got out and joined the Army National Guard during that time. I'm I've worked as a Prep cook for a four-star restaurant. I've worked as a line Chef. I've worked at Sears as an auto mechanic of worked on a road repair on forklifts and off and once I got into guard it was it was busy. That's my story and I'll give you some more of my military history and a little bit. Yeah, for sure for sure Kathleen. What about you? What's your background? Sure, so I was born and raised in Connecticut, and then moved around a couple of different places. I started in Community Mental Health in 1991. So started working specifically in trauma, and then in 2009. I worked started working for the Department of Defense specifically with military members of their families preparing for deployment returning from deployment with reintegration suicide prevention. Just that broad spectrum, and then we'll talk more later about We met so but that's kind of my story. I've been Community Mental Health and also I grew up on a farm. So I grew up farming. Okay, very cool off and was the farm in Connecticut then yes Farm was in Connecticut. Okay. Okay. So what does the life of a farm girl look like is it is it off all we read in books and watch a movie and everything and you're getting up at 4 a.m. And milking the cows. Oh, yeah, that's pretty much what it is. My interesting part about that is my dad worked a full-time job as a tooling engineer off my dad by the way was in the Navy served during World War Two he was a tooling engineer. So he wore a suit and tie by day, but he would get up about 4:00 in the morning and we'd all have to go and help out with cows and the garden and then when he got home from work, we would have supper and then we'd go back out and look after after that time. Wow, that's that's a full day for sure for sure. So so you both come from it sounds like vastly different backgrounds than right. Yes, I I grew up in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I was a city boy. Okay. Okay. And so I want to ask how you two met but we'll get there in a minute. You know, actually, let me just go ahead and ask that now is it appropriate to ask it now or should we go through your military career page? You told me that it was in the military career that we met. All right. Let's start there. They'll tell me tell me some more about your military history of military story there. All right. Like I said, I started out in the Navy nineteen eighty-three ended up on board the USS, Missouri recommissioning the USS Missouri. We had a shake-down cruise which was around the world tour which was pretty unique and then a year later we ended up being deployed for operation. Ernie will which was S Club reflect Kuwaiti tankers up and down the streets won't moves came back to spend some time still on on board ship and then move to the USS potent on the East Coast after going through chrome gemuk school and and Virginia decommission the USS Fulton. Then went to a sub-basement worked at the sub base for a couple of years as a waterfront supervisor referring submarines went and Nash or when the naval reserves and while I was there and I had approached the National Guard they didn't have a position for me cuz I was up to Chief in the Navy and they offered me any Force lot. And I said no thank you. They came back three years later just as I was getting ready to get out of the reserves and they said hey, we got a position for you. It's the V6 rebuilding jet engines for Army are divorced and I said I'll take it ended up having a full-time job at the app crab in Groton, Connecticut at the airport there, which is now the tasmg June eleven or nine thousand G had a couple of Employments when I was there. Worked on aircraft for fourteen different states and the District of Columbia repairing jet engines all the hell army helicopters and and in two thousand three, I took the commission as an officer after a little over 20 years enlisted cuz I wasn't getting my E7 in the Army I said, oh wow two weeks later. I have a sergeant-major walk up to me and says, hey Dave want you order. So you had them over to framed nice for Sergeant First Class and I said, you know what? I'm not gonna pass. Cuz I've already I've already signed the paperwork. I'm going down. This path was a good choice ended up being Transportation was deployed a couple of different times here in country or operation. We went down and took care of Katrina responded to Katrina and in overseas in Iraq in two thousand six and seven. We were running gun trucks. We don't we're going to be long haul and doing big rigs which is what I signed on for. We got into Kuwait and they said no you're going to be doing gun trucks came back from that in two thousand the end of 2007 talked to may have cried again, and they said they could use my help. They were getting ready to deploy and I said, hey, I'll take a rear Echelon position if you need somebody I'll be around home and it took me on his EXO for the facility and rear. Now understand there's three hundred people that work there full time as contractors or did they don't anymore as well as a number probably 150 to 200 off on Military we repaired aircraft like I said for fourteen different states doing demo level repairs including the District of Columbia, so I was the XO I was a first lieutenant holding down a journal and Lieutenant Colonel slot how that work. Actually pretty good cuz I was old enough at you know, most of the folks already knew me they knew my background. They knew I needed to be done. But I ended up doing the representing to make, for a year-and-half going up to the the adjutant General's meetings as the macom. Commander I wasn't the commander and we had one but he was usually away on missions for the eagle commission which was going around the states and working on environmental issues. Okay. So got done with that got back to another deployment to Kuwait random Warehouse in Southeast Asia for Aviation as the accountable officer for a facility went back to the year after that and did the same thing while I was doing that. I was also the suicide prevention officer and this leads us into Iraq. I met Kathy perfect transition. Go ahead. Yeah. So I'll go ahead and talk about that part. Well, I had just started my position as the Director of psychological for the Connecticut National Guard and was tasked with teaching Suicide Prevention. And so I'm teaching Suicide Prevention my very first night teaching. This class is already I had everything all lined up and here's this flounders guy in the back of the room everything newspaper with this pretty much I would I swear if you could have put off. Feet up on the desk. He would. Yeah, but he was leaning back in his chair reading a newspaper and he was really irritating me. And so I made it really clear. You know, I asked him questions about everything that I had just taught and he could answer every question correctly, even though he was reading the newspaper which of course made me even more. So after that class was all done. I went to the general and I said I don't care what you do, but if you ever put that flounders in one of my classes again, I'm quitting. So it was probably about three weeks later. He brought me into his office and he said, you know, we've as you know, we've had a rise in suicides. We're going to put together a suicide task force. We want you to lead it and we're going to put you give you a team this time. It's not going to just be you. That's why I said oh, this is great. Right. So guess who we put on the song. Let me guess. That's right, David Flom. Yep. And so at first it was a kind of a love-hate relationship, but especially because I was the one that was in charge of the team and as a civilian, sometimes that doesn't go over so well with military members, right but we kind of grew on each other and that's that's pretty much the beginning of our story but both of us were assist trainers applied suicide intervention skills training and that was part of what she had brought to the state and we went ahead and did that wage. We talked some classes in state and then when I was deployed overseas and Kuwait was working with the chapter. Of course, that's just for the fun of it almost on the side helping them teach assist classes over there every month. So I did think quite a bit with that and we actually were known in our in our state and Connecticut because they tasked us with teaching for children and families. So the, you know, like DCF Department of Children and Families, we had Suicide Prevention classes. We talked to the investigators because they were having an increase in birth rates with their investigators. So they asked us to come out for that. So that's kind of the story of how we've started out. That's how we start out and you know, and when I came back to my last appointment, I was I ended up going to Fort Drum to be medically medically retired. I had some pretty proud. Issues at that point both physical mental and ended up going and did you know you were having a lot of issues at that at that time? Yes, and I was part of the issue and that that was part of my thing is I wasn't comfortable ordering troops to do things that would put them In Harm's Way because I wasn't I I lost the confidence in myself and and part of what happened. You know, you said were you aware of those things going on? So he told you he had a quick turnaround between the last two deployments right off. I mean real quick. Like he wasn't even think he came off active duty. I don't think so. But we kind of had a a really hard conversation because this is what I did. I took the director of psychological health. I help people go through that process of recognizing when maybe they needed to transition out if it was time and you know part of what we had was conversation. I said you suck. David I think it's really important. When you go back this time that instead of just telling everyone you're okay. You need to be honest and you know when you go back on active duty overseas, so he did and he you know talked about his shoulders and his back and all the different things and he reported it at that time to Medical which I'm sure you know that such a struggle sometimes from guys because their unit doesn't necessarily receive that real well, you know, and it's hard for them to to be able to admit that and accept it and they've recognized parts of it, but it was still a real struggle for him and part of what happened when he first came back from the deployment before they sent him to Fort Drum for medical charge was that he his unit went home and he had to stay there. I was at Fort Dix he was at Fort Dix and so he felt really left behind and there wasn't a lot of control. Infamous unit for him there. And so there were times where he just said, you know, forget it. I'm I'm going home. I don't want to do this anymore and we'd have to have those real conversations. You know, those difficult conversations looked this is the rest of your life, you know, as soon as you sign in your out of there, that's it. They don't have to take care of you. But if they don't know what's going on and so we just had to have that tough conversation and you know as we're going forward with I think this is important because this is a lot of what we do for young men right now is to help them recognize the fact that even though they've gotten out, you know, as we go forward until a little bit more of our story is that having those tough conversations, you know about getting connected finding the benefits that you're eligible for because I bought it that were disabled is a horrible word. And I think people focus on the disability versus their abilities but to be able to access them. That's you have to be able to go forward and say yes. I've got something going on and one of the things that I was going through when I was before I ended up going for drum. I had shoulder surgeries and and they did a colonoscopy and had to remove polyps and some other things and this was all in a span of three months. So I was doing I was not doing well with standard stage of leftovers as well as it changed my due to my PTSD issues. They put me on Wellbutrin and I wasn't tragic closely enough and I ended up having a suicide attempt in January of 2014. And that was all it was all rolled together in one place and one of the things we taught when we were in suicide doing the assist training was anybody can have Can get to the point of being suicidal and it's you know, it was tough. I got lucky Kathy came home early that day. And that's when they ship me off the board room right in the middle of a blizzard. I think that's all the time in Fort Drum. Yes. So how long do you think led up to you getting to the point where you know what I'm ready to end it I'm done. It was a combination of a number of different things. And again, it was three surgeries the anesthesia that was still in my system the Wellbutrin and I did not respond well to the Wellbutrin Thursday, we brought it up a couple of times to the VA that I was having issues and they were just so swamped. They weren't moving very fast and finally got to the point where I was done wrong. And and I think the other piece about it is, you know, we talked about this is that part of what happened was he was losing his identity all at once, you know, fifty one years old. I was expecting to be in a military till I was sixty. I have no clue what to do when they were in fact that they're medically retirement. I have no clue what to do. So you go from all of that. And this is that all up in still in Connecticut. Well, you went to Fort Fort Drum, but still up in Connecticut, right? Yes. Okay. So you go from there you have this the track a traumatic event or all these events rolled into one that becomes a traumatic part of your life, you know leads to a suicide attempt and everything and then there's there's this Gap in what I know of you guys and where you are now in Alabama take us through that part. What got you from Connecticut down to Alabama why this area of the country all of that? Maybe that's maybe that's a long story. I don't know. Well part of it is a 2015. I went through the TV program which was the entrepreneurship boot camp for veterans with disabilities. Okay Exhale by 6 University. I think at the time either 7 or 10 different universities throughout the country that were holding them and I went through the one at UConn. And that ended up being a good thing for me because it gave me something to focus on initially. I was focusing on leather work because I used to do leather off and I was looking at leather work and it was my thing and it when I'd come home and talk it was like, you know, we I want to do more I want to be able to give back and that's where part of the the Samsung strength sustainable veterans project that we didn't know it at the time really started to take shape. Very very cool and we will hear more about that in just a minute coming up after the break will learn more about the incredible work that Dave and Kathleen are doing at their non-profit Samson's strength that Dave just mentioned and like I said, it is such a unique. It's just a such a unique program. I can't wait till you hear it and moved it addresses. So many issues that veterans face. You're not going to want to miss it. So stay tuned from the very beginning of courage to fight again. I knew I wanted the organization to have a huge positive impact in the veteran community and that's how the podcast was born. But I knew a podcast wouldn't be enough. I knew there had to be a better way to help service members like myself transition from the military to civilian life. So I set out to create a step-by-step guide dog. To help veterans do just that and turns out that's a whole lot harder than it sounds but here's the good news on September 15th 2020 that resolved the first-ever book from Courage to fight again hits the shelves. So what's in the book? Why should you buy it? Well, I'm glad you asked me that resolved is a journey and it is a book that requires action resolved leverages The Familiar crawl-walk-run trainee model with the never-before-seen nine line framework. The nine line framework steps you the veteran through a simple to follow guide to rediscovering purpose meaning and passion in post-military life out for more information on the book the framework the training model and all things courage to fight again head over to courage to fight again, that's courage to fight again. Com. All right, so Dave and Kathleen we have talked about a lot of your history and kind of what brought you to this point and right before the break. We stopped dead kind of you guys making the decision with Dave going through the TV program and everything and then there's the decision that you have to make of what to do next and you end up in Alabama. How did all that take place? All right, we knew we were leaving it. We knew we were leaving Connecticut. It's too damn expensive up there. We purchased a hundred fifteen Acre Farm down here after I looked at five hundred places online basically went to look at 37. We took the RV we took for around to see what was available looked at the different places and then ended up with the one we're at right now, which is 115 Acres. We purchased it in 2015 for $325,000 the same property in Connecticut was going for five to six million. Wow, so that that was one of the big things sure. During that time when we're doing that we were also starting to figure out how to work the nonprofit side what we wanted to do and that's one reason we are ended up with the farm versus just a piece of a small piece of property is because we want the farm to be part of what we're doing with the with the veterans. What is the nonprofit? How does all that work? Tell me like the whole process and the whole how how all that is dead? structured Sure, so it's Samson's strength sustainable veterans project. And our goal is to support veterans who are struggling with homelessness being at risk of homelessness. Joblessness or just you know, struggling with reintegrating so part of what when we started talking about. What is this going to look like, you know, originally you heard Dave said he came back from EBV thought I want to help veterans. We had no idea what it was going to look like. It just kept getting when we need to add that when we need to add that. So part of what we realized was we needed to have some sort of transitional housing. We needed to have a place on our property where veterans could come and stay and they could get back on their feet and then transitioned back into the community and we wanted to be able to support them with them. But we also recognize if they were coming out to do that. We didn't want them to be bored because what we know is that boredom is not a player. Yeah, so That's where the farm part came in. And so we actually have a greenhouse a 20 by 100 Greenhouse which were in the process of doing here round Greenhouse gardening in there providing food vegetables. We also have the the building of the House of the job that date explain a little bit more. So the nonprofits goal is to take a veteran am in our Target population is post-nine-eleven males right now at this point. We'll talk a little bit more about our goals for the future when when we talk about the next part but to provide a place for them to stay a safe place for them to stay sober environment Healthy Living learning about sustainable farming how to raise their own food at the same time how to learn other skills. In addition my role as the case manager would be to ensure that they get connected to whatever their benefits are. You know, whether it's v a job. Oh benefits or disability benefits or education benefits. Whatever those benefits are that's my role and responsibility to ensure that they are accessing those dead. We spoken with some of the local businesses and we're we're in the process of designing an mou memorandum of agreement or understanding where life is a veteran is going to our program. They will be allowed to leave a job if they're working some place because that's the priority to get them their benefits and stuff like that. Where is it can't do that's part of what we've worked for and and fought for the Farms provides a lot of stuff the leather shop people can come in and make a sneezing and leather. I do have a we've got a leather shop here Maintenance building. We're working with our Builder as well as the another job. Local non-profit that we're using they're building and we can build the wall sections in place right then in there and take them out to the site and install and what happens is what by being able to do that we can put the windows the doors the exterior cladding we can do all that in this Warehouse ship it out to the site and close in a building in about four years. Wow. That's really cool. And the Builder wants to be able to use that for what he's building for houses for him. The other non-profit must be able to use that to help build affordable housing here in Clay County jail, because there isn't any or there's very little put it that way most of the T the run-down and dilapidated or it's too expensive and you've got a lot of folks that are moving out of Clay County. We started off 15,000 here in 2015, and we're down to 13-5 right now. So part of what you heard is that other piece of the vocational training, which is Plumbing electrical from, you know, beginning to the end of building a house, which is really exciting. One of the questions. I saw was a how long has Samson's strength been around. Yeah. Yeah, and this is this is another piece that I have in there as well Samson's strength was started by myself from 2005 as a DJ and KJ service. All right 2006 that was out of a job. I didn't have anyplace wage. Once I took my position as an officer. I they didn't have anything available for you to work yet. So I started d j k j business. That's where Samson's strength name at home. And it's a picture of Samsung bringing bringing the temple down and Samson's strength. We bring the house down on my business cards. So from their birth When I was when I started this I figured we started because you need a lot of strength to what we're doing. And that's that's part of what we did. The other piece that we have is a for-profit which is Samsung strength farms and Veteran Ventures, which is the veteran Ventures and nonprofit all integrates together so that we can do the job job training other places with uh, we want to teach people how to do a DJ in case you have some fun, you know, but also do it for the local community. This very very cool. So what is I want to ask about your vision for the future of it? But what is the I guess time commitments of a veteran says like hey, like I guess how does a veteran even like nominate themselves or how does how does all that work? How does the veteran like contact you guys and say hey I'm interested. They can do that. We hand out enough cards. We've talked enough people, but we were also involved with the veterans court in Anniston. Okay, Thursday. We're also involved with the c a b c Central Alabama Veterans Coalition collaborative. I'm sorry that's a loose group of about a hundred different organization then our support veterans. So we reach out to them. Kathy has again a background with Mental health and she can reach out to some of the folks that she used to work with and within a hundred miles of us. We have five major bases month. So connected with the Alabama National Guard and their family assistance program. Okay, and so we've had quite a few people that have come to us through that as far as wage not any one that's come to live with us, but people that have asked for support as Dave mentioned were part of and and really support the veterans court and what we've been doing with them is providing community service off hours opportunities. So people can work off their fees that they own the court and they can come out and volunteer. So I think that's the other part that we really really want to emphasize is that it's an all-volunteer organization. We don't take a salary. We put a lot of money into it. We put money into it the house invest into it, but all the money that we receive goes off. Directly to purchase materials to build the homes. And so we don't have anyone that takes a salary. Even our Builder donates his time and his people's time home is them to do the work like the concrete work and everything else. So that's one of the things I think that's a big need for us is people to come out and volunteer as bodies beneath. Sometimes it's just Dave and honey. And as you do a lot but I won't move and you don't want me doing electrical because it's 220 221 whatever it takes and if I plug it in the wall and it turns on I'm happy. So I don't know how it goes. I just know there's electricity. Yeah. So so what is your vision for the future of Samsung? What does it look like, you know, two three five years down the road. Well, it's it's in some ways. It's hard to imagine because we didn't imagine we'd be where we are right now. But a big part of what we want to be able to do is just as Dave mentioned we have a hundred fifteen Acres. I recently purchased last year 16 Acres that were building 30 homes on and that's the part where we're building a very home my dad as I mentioned was a World War Two veteran he passed away last year and the amount of thank you had a wonderful life great guy, but the amount of money that was left to each one of our siblings divided up with the exact amount of money. I needed to purchase that property. So I knew it came and the weekend she came back from the funeral was the weekend that went on sale. Yeah. So that's all I just yeah. I just part of our hundred fifteen acres is we have another piece that's separate from that wage. In my dream in my vision for the future is to have a place for women particularly women that might have a child that need that Transitional Care as well as support. So that's my big thing. And also, I'm really into horses I grew up riding and I set up online programs in the VA for veterans when I was in Connecticut, and I want to be able to have some sort of a neckline component as well. So what date a little bit about his vision? Yeah part of I've got service dogs. I've got one that's retired. And then I have an active one for my PTSD thousand and one of the things we're doing is I'm building these houses such that we could have anybody who comes to the house can have an animal whether it's a dog or cat or dog dogs are impressed preferred amusing LifeProof for the flooring because it's got a 20 year warranty lifetime warranty for residential five years for commercial. But that way the dogs can be inside when somebody comes to stay and they want to leave the dog. One of the things we're trying to put up is a kennel where they've got home runs and if they're leaving for the day they can put their dog in the kennel. Let them stay there instead of just leaving in a house cuz the houses are small and only 17 17 to buy 20. It's an efficiency apartment, but it's out and one of the other visions that we have is a community center and that's that's a big piece. If you if you get a chance to come out and take a look at the property one day. I'll show you where the houses and how it look into what our mission is to the house where those 30 will go and then where the community center will go right into the side of the hill side where it can be seen on Route 49 is people drive by on a regular basis. The other piece is we didn't mention it earlier is part of our name is sustainable and we're looking to put in BIO digesters instead of septic tanks God. Jester's take what you put out as waste digested through an anaerobic process produce methane which will be used in a commercial kitchen in New Jersey Unity center as well as producing carbon dioxide and an effluent effluence Clearwater. It's not clean water, but it's it's it comes out. It's colored brown, but it's clinically dead. There was nothing in it, except a lot of vitamins and minerals and you can take that and put it right on the one we're going to be using it out on the farm instead of putting out fertilized. Very very cool. Love your vision. So what are your biggest needs right now? I know Kathleen you mentioned. Hey, we need you know able-bodied people to come out here and help them is that your biggest need just getting people like Hands-On or tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah. So volunteers are what we need and that's where we've really struggled with covid-19. Now and give a few hours, that would be great. We would if we know you're coming we can line up a task, you know, we had an older couple that came out about a month ago and we had them put together the first band that's going in the first house. So I have purchased captain's bed and they sat there the whole day took a whole day to put that thing together was quite complicated, but they did it and thought that was great. You know, we have so many things that people can do one thing that I do want to mention too is I mentioned University of Alabama. They have a program called Beyond Bama which is where they volunteer and give back to their community. And so we're actually working with them now they're going to set up our hashtag givingtuesday Campaign which Tuesday after Thanksgiving and we're really excited about that because we just started with our first Zoom meeting with them with their team and we're in the process of planning what that givingtuesday campaign is going to look like and a big dog. Piece that were asking them is to raise awareness about you know, what are what are hashtags? What are the things we're doing? And how can we get people involved raise awareness in the community about the needs for veterans sure for absolutely. So now love it. I love this so much. So we talked about a lot today talked about your history talked about Samsung strength. What's the big takeaway? What what's the one big thing that you want listeners to remember about what we've talked about today? Well, and, you know Dave I were talking about that before the podcast and what we realized, you know, we've had articles we've done, you know, different interviews here and there and that every little bit no matter how tiny makes a difference we had an article that was in Alabama living and we received a call from a woman and she said I'd like to crochet pod. There's for each one of your houses and I just thought isn't that just amazing, you know, and I said that would wonderful and you know what she did it and she's mailed them to us and she wrote a handwritten letter and it was just so amazing. So each of those houses are going to have pot holders made by this woman. So every little bit if you can't come and volunteers physically, there's something you can do whether it's sharer or posts on Facebook, you know, we have a wish-list. It's on our website of materials and things that we need and equipment that we need. There's so many things if you can't do it share it because you never know someone, you know might have that that we could have, you know as as donate. That's so awesome. That is so awesome. Well you guys being on the podcast we'll definitely get you some more some more attention. I would hope we will definitely put the link to your website and the show notes as well. So what are the direct next steps for listening to this right now? Is this a is this a something they need to either get on the phone or on the website and contact you right away or what? Should they be thinking about doing as their next step after listening to the show Well, we'd love them to go on our website. One thing. We want to mention about our website page where the process of getting someone who's donating their time to upgrade our website. So it's not as up-to-date as our Facebook page. So our Facebook page pretty much gets updates at least 8 times a week with what we're doing. So that's Sampson strength sustainable veterans project on Facebook. We use hashtags. So one of the hashtags I use is hashtag. Like one home one veteran at a time hashtag, which is the Samsung strength sustainable veterans project hashtag believe in the mission and hashtag choose to serve. So those are the big ones that we use one of the things University of Alabama students is we're going to create a an Instagram page as well as upgrade our Twitter page so we can get those hashtags out there during the next coming months. And my my phone number is out on both on both websites and on the Facebook page. So people always want them to call. Okay, great. Great. I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation today. I have one last question from the I will call it the official part of the show. We have little fun part of the show at the end. But God how important is it to ReDiscover your purpose after you've left the military Dave it was incredible because if I hadn't When we had the house up in Connecticut, there was a basement. I was living in the basement. I wouldn't come out of their lights were off. It was dark that was depressed. It wasn't good. Now we don't have a basement so I can't good but I've got something to do and right now it's been tough because without the without volunteers I my mission doesn't seem to move as well as I'd like to see it and if we can get the volunteers back out there, I'll be moving I'll be moving back. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I know for me I can't wait to be able to actually get out there and put some Hands-On work in and check the place out cuz I know you invited me when I first spoke have been able to get out there get love to get out there for sure. So last part of the show, this is just for fun. This is rapid fire questions, and we're going to do just back and forth I whip song. A321 and I will ask you a question Kathleen. You can answer first and then Dave and we're just going to pop in right through them. You ready? Ready? All right, 321 favorite color red white and blue and green favorite food. Chocolate shrimp one thing from your bucket list that you have not done yet. Scott you planned that I know the answer to this one. We're going to ask any of my dogs or cats dogs City Life or country living. Why am I even asking these favorite hobby be sewing and gardening RC planes? favorite superhero Wonder Woman Thor after the after the apocalypse, all right and final question for you favorite thing about what you're doing with Samson's strength working with the community and working with veterans anybody who wants to come out and volunteer that that to me is the best thing and we're banking something happen. That'll improve somebody else's life and giving back. Sure, well David Kathleen. It has been such a pleasure having you on the show very very excited to get this show post produced and out to everyone and YouTube app set a record today. Probably didn't even know it, but this is the first time that on the show. We have had two guests at once and I could not have asked for better guests to talk to to kind of break the ice there for multiple guests on the show. So it has been so great having you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to go on the courage fighting and podcast and thank you very much for giving us the opportunity again to share the mission. Wow, Dave and Kathleen have such a huge vision and heart for helping the veteran Community. Absolutely. Love it. Remember that next week on September 14th at 7 p.m. Eastern time for the first time ever. I'll be going live and interviewing a very special guest of that. I mentioned at the top of the show off. His name is Raymond lot also known as the Marine rapper. He will be live with me on the courage to fight again Facebook page next week. So be sure to life and follow the page and tune in at 7 p.m. Eastern time next Monday evening and on September 15th 2020 the moment we've all been waiting for the moment. I have been waiting for will finally be here. The resolved book hits the shelves you can pre-order right now on the courage to fight again website down. Book start shipping on September 16th. What are you waiting for? Grab your copy today? Well, thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the courage to fight again podcast and until next time. Thanks for listening. home

Dave Connecticut David Kathleen Samsung Alabama Samson VA Facebook officer Kathy Navy Kuwait Pennsylvania Fort Drum Raymond PTSD Sears Army National Guard
iHeartdogs founder and Army Veteran Marshall Morris

Veteran On the Move

35:51 min | 1 year ago

iHeartdogs founder and Army Veteran Marshall Morris

"No one's gonna tell you. What you need to know. You've got to figure that out yourself. That's army veteran. Martial Maurer's, founder of I heart dogs dot com. Sharing his veteran entrepreneurial success story. Coming up next of veteran on the move. Welcome to veteran on the move. If you're a veteran in transition and entrepreneur wanna-be for someone still stuck at that jail. Trying to escape this podcast is dedicated to your success at now your host Joe green. If you're looking for bookkeeping solution for your business, you need to check out bench. Bookkeeping I've been using bench for several years now, and it is the best automatic solution. I found you can get your first month of bench bookkeeping for free and experience. How great benches by going to veteran on the move dot com slash bench. Earn. I'm talking with Marshall Moore's from I heard dogs Marshall before we get to talk about business and all the great entrepreneurship experiences in success. You have had in this Evine world take us back a little bit. And tell us what you did in the army. So I was in the army of battery so back back back, then it was love it. We start Levin. Bravo or eleven hotel thinks love Bravo now. But basically, here's my story. So I wanted to go to college. I was going to go to and have the army pay for it and also enlist, and I was on the fence between national guard because there's local colleges and whatever. And so I said if the national guard and nine eleven happened in basic training from me. So before I even went to basic training when we are hold over people came in and said something happened because you're in complete isolation. Right. So you d you're not you're like literally 'isolation waiting to be transferred to training. So they said, hey, you're from New York said, yes. Because I was from New York, not New York City live three hours. He said something happened. And if you're from New York, you can call your family, and so it was like, okay. That's weird. Like, we had no news, right? That day fundamentally changed because everything so after training the idea is going to go to college. And then eventually you go to you can become an officer. Right. Gi for degree all that stuff. I got back, and I got instantly deployed active duty to with a top secret clearance to basically watch airbases in New York City against domestic terrorism. So and it was a really weird time because because we're Levin hotel. We were connect with fort drum, all my other friends went overseas. So I this guilt there for a long time. Because like, I didn't choose that destination. Right. But I gotta signed it. And I felt like I should be overseas. So but the shift I worked to was a brutal. It was seven two seven seven at night till seven in the morning, and if anyone's work nights, it's a very hard thing to do in your body because you know, what I mean, you're just cycles are off, right? So for me that Saddam that season. The all I had to stay awake. Right. And we'll all I could do really was read. I couldn't read the stuff that puts you sleep. I read stuff that would activate your brain. Right. So we literally sit on the tarmac watching C fives reading books. So that's the time. I just started picking a business books right about anything business because I had a lot of time to kill. And I would just start reading in. That's when I realized that you can create a hunger for things and create passion for things through just a acquiring knowledge. So I did a lot of reading those. Years and through that period of time afterwards, I got out and I because of I was really hungry to do something in business. I'd read up all the successful people. That's knowledge is such a great starting point right to the next thing in also the other thing that I learned in the military was the mental game. It's a mental game businesses. A mental game you make it mentally or you don't make it, mentally and it begins there. Right. You you give up your mind or you choose not to give up in your mind. And so I remember being a basic training or with other guys, and they would be we'd be locations, and it there the power of their mind over their physical circumstance was unbelievable, especially the Rangers, especially special forces. Right. Like, that's that's the game. You master the mind. You got everything's at your disposal and businesses the same way. So there's a lot of extension. So for me became okay. What do I wanna do in? So I so when I got. Out. I'm like, okay. Let's go like I'm gonna go right into the world. So I didn't finish college. So just jump right in like sales because that's how I'm wired for people. You know, and I took the determination and a mental game. I learned in the military, and I was able to really put that the gas pedal on and work, hard, and work smart and never give up. Right. And that did well I entered the season in two thousand seven where I was doing really really well, and I had that time of transition into real estate. So I found my niche I was doing well. And then like a lot of people in the season the market crash. And if you're if you were in other Connie's, you may felt in real estate everyone felt it right? When you said it when I heard you say it went into real estate. No pseudonym like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually launched my own company. I finally said, hey, you know, what I've done this Nefer people do myself three months in it fell apart the whole world fell apart in you know, what I mean? So so here's what happened. I panic for the next year. I lived I lost my mental game. I did. Because the situation I was in felt real right? And so easy when you robusta against something, very, real and painful, and you to just just kind of retreat and the next year was I call my year in the desert because I literally didn't have a job so from from earning and kind of building and investing it being a brief right in fearless to a different person. And I remember like about a year, and I realized like. I kind of felt like I really tapped back into a lot of the stuff that I learned when I was in the military, which was like, you just gotta keep going you just keep going. So like, you may be running. And if you can't run you jog, you can't jog you walk. You can't walk you crawl you get there, just go. And during that season for me, what happened was we really we really got to the point where it was like, okay. It's getting better like, I can see light. And I just in. That's really where I realize. Okay. I'm I mentally check myself. Right. I got to be prepared to win from the beginning. I gotta I gotta be mentally in the game to win. Not just to not be hurt. I just did not fail. Like, I gotta win. And literally so through that process. I I went to the back of Saint principles. If I wanna do something gotta gotta know how to do it. If I become an expert in something, then people pay me to to learn how to do it. It's other world works. We pay for knowledge. So I just started build a sister learning, and I got into the internet back, then the internet like, I check my Email. That's it. And so a friend of mine said I have a website. I want you to help me with this. And I didn't know anything. But I knew from earlier just like the military like you learn things you learned skill sets. Right. And you then you apply the skill sets. That's it then that's life. So I learned skills, and I played it. And we sold that company for seven figures three years later, if it was like, okay, I this is cool. Company wasn't. It was an internet company was kind of like auto trader like oh traitor is kind of like that was basically company like that cars online things like that. So I was like, okay. Like, this is really neat. You know? But I still was fearful because that's that season where I where I felt the most pain had still had kind of been baked intimate, right? Like, my mental game still wasn't back to where it needed to be so five years ago, I found another scenario just through networking and just learning and pursuing like when you become the person who who's reliable and courageous and doesn't give up you track. The right people you do and it same in the military, you track you track fringe attract battle buddies. Right. You track people who who really got your back and wanna see you successful that same principle. Apply life because it's rare most people don't do that. Right. So met my partner now on he said he had his business in was internet. So I learned that. Right. Capitalize on it. And then this business. I was like, wow. There's something here. Let's do something. Like, I believe in this. Right. So I said, okay, let's go, and we started the business in like literally. I was just looking at numbers we've done sixty three million dollars in revenue in the past five years from this business. Awesome. Awesome. So it just took off and the Rowley reason I've been able to do that is because we've been I've been able to ply principles that really were taught in ingrained in the military. Those principles have not giving up as Prentice principles of having that mental edge in that game. Right believing in yourself having confidence moving the confidence because then like business is a place where you're going to be challenged. If you're. Like the easiest things in life. Someone has booth has opened that path. Right. So like a job selling create a company created processes, you're working in him. Right. When you're building your own thing, the amount of mental wear and tear. That happens is stanchly more. Right. So I always encourage people to like know going into it. You're going to go into a battle in your mind. I and if you could win that battle you can win any battle in. So that's kind of like the where we are. Now is like now I tried to now I try to take that mindset that I've learned in applied in end incubate my team into it. So so that's kind of the journey to wear. I am now know the company you're currently talking about would which one is added. We're gonna businesses. So I heard dogs dot com. What we do is we sell we sell products for people who have pets. And and we saw proxy people to celebrate those pets so you could say like sure, this is I love my German shepherd, or whatever we sell that stuff. We also sell supplements of your German shepherd has a hip problems. Right. Or we sell CBD if your dog has you know, is it has pain issues or things like that? CB deal for dogs now. I mean, that's yeah. To us not having hand. But check this out dogs receptors or ma- are are a lot deeper than humans in the impact is so much more actually. Yeah. It's pretty fascinating. So sidebar. But but here, here's the thing. So do the do the Leedle dog food. That's funny that yeah, we dog food. Okay. Right. Hey, you want to check this out? No. Yeah. It's funny. So yeah. The the answer forever listing is that they don't because we are from habit has not. So it's kind of like, it's organic. It's like that. But yes, it's it's an interesting one. So here's the thing. We're always learning. We're always adapting right? That's the key. Then that's where that's how those businesses Brown is we've actually been adapting non stop. So you know with that to our DNA is to give back. So like one of the being a veteran and seeing veterans of PTSD like so like I mentioned earlier. One of my my personal battles. Is the fact that I had to come to terms with the fact that my friends went over there got messed up, and I didn't. And that's a heavy burden. It was so I said, you know, what maybe the reason I didn't. So I can help them. So one of the things being in the dog space the change I've seen in veteran's lives who have service animals is closest thing to a miracle you'll ever experience. And so I said we're going to do something about that. Because I'm going to give back because I was because I'm able to so we launched the line of veteran products their military themes. So para core things like that you buy them, and we help fund service dogs for veterans, the PTSD, the absolutely need them. So that was a way for me to kind of step into. And celebrate what you know them in and take care of them. Like, they took care of us. So the business itself is kind of purpose. You know what? I mean, we have two different couple of faucets. But it's it's it's really driven by impact. So that's the military version, you're buying just the basic stuff we feed shelter animals. We fed over fifteen million shelter animals in the past five years donate over two hundred thousand toys for the veterans program. We're approaching three hundred thousand dollars we've donated to help fund service animals for veterans of PTSD. So it's basically a four pop like we create a company that makes money. So we can do great things in the world. That's awesome. Okay. We're gonna talk more about I heart dogs in some more details when we come back from break beer back. Awesome. I've slept on the dirt the green yoga mat and military cuts many nights during my days in the military and now asleep in lots of hotel rooms when I'm on the road. So I know good mattress when a c one few weeks ago, we got our new ghost bid, and let me tell you. It's the best mattress of ever slept on my life. Kelly lives at two and we don't ever see ourselves going back to traditional mattress. So what separates go sped from the others. Is that they're found on the principle of delivering a bigger better and more comfortable mattress at a lower cost. It's actually significantly lower than your typical mattress goes bit has three mattresses all designed to help you sleep better. And they offer one hundred one night, hassle-free return and amazing customer service. They've got over twenty thousand positive reviews. So you need to check them out at veteran on the move dot com slash go. Sped where you can save a couple of hundred dollars off a mattress which. Has already lower than if you go to mattress shop. So be sure check him out again. It's a veteran on the move dot com slash go. Sped are back talking with Marshall. Moore's from I heart dogs. I heard dogs dot com and Marshall before the break, you had said that what you did was you created a for profit company, and that's allowing you to fund your nonprofit type activities, which is great. We have nonprofits on the show all the time. And of course, one of their biggest struggles is funding creating right fund raising or getting things funded in in paying for stuff. But the way you've done it. And I don't know if it was if you started off with that intention, or after you got into your like, hey, we can go now we can do shift and do some of this on the side. So that's really cool. So talk about first, let's talk about the four prophet stuff. Where you I heart dogs dot com. You just selling a lot of products online or. There's a lot of your revenue coming from an in house the house the cash slower whatever details you might be willing to provide. For sure. So our dogs Oranje we sell online direct consumer, which means we don't we don't sell an Amazon, we don't sell another platforms. We sell directly to our users through our website. And so we're probably shit, and we actually have our own facility that picks impacts and ships. Right. And we we make all of our own products. So all the dog stuff, we formulate them, and we make them in the USA all the all the consumables things like that. We approximate all of the world. We had all the supply chain from beginning to the end. Yeah, we carry all our own products. So we see ourselves kind of as the trader Joe's if your if your listeners familiar with that of pets. We kind of have a curated we try to find the best stuff in curate that an offer that in a unique way. So so that and so basically right now, you know, we'll ship thousand orders a day right now. And then during the holidays, which is for most online stores, you're seeing lift because of gifting you know, it may double or triple that. Yeah. Cool. And I believe you said in the last five years you've had about sixty three million in revenue. Yes. Yep. We've had simply done about sixty three as of this month, and you're still grown. Yes. We are still growing team of about thirty people here in southern California. And we have about twenty people around the world that work for us. I mean, it kind of goes without saying your fulltime I heard that's it all in. Yeah. That's awesome. So I was like to ask you when somebody's, you know, lay like legitimately. They've made it, you know, their their incomes come in from their business. Yes. After that happens. Do you consider yourself unemployable meaning? Imagine yourself working for somebody else. Yeah. That's funny. It's hard to see that just takes you melody. Could I work for somebody else? Yes. What I for my family. Absolutely. Do I want to know? So so it's it's one of those things, but I think that when you've been on the side of the table, so long you just thrive there you love it. And you don't want to do something else. Not like descriptors with. It's like it's like. We've got massive revenue coming in. Everything's click clicking. Everything's working. You get your. So you control your own supply chain in your own manufatures on the US, man. It sounds. I mean, everything's I'm sure there's issues everyday you're dealing with. But it's it's working, you know. And so what's that? What's that? Like. Yeah. So like when you and this is for everyone knows top line doesn't mean that profit. Okay. So like, so basically like a company that has a lot of revenue can make no money, right? And luckily, we watched the bottom line in. So we definitely operate. You know, we make sure that like we're really trying to be with our money. So the it's a. I would say when you're signing both sides of your check. It is scarier in some ways because in the end, I think that's the the battle in the mind. Right. Who you work for someone else? You don't think about what your next check is coming from you don't think about all the drama like I was putting list together. Like, we've been we've had a big accounts hacked to tens of thousand dollars wired out we've had heart whole site hacked, where they've stolen stuff we've had our identity stolen. We've had literally like theft. We've had we actually had quarters where we didn't realize we were we turn around we close the books in that quarter. We lost half a million dollars in in in. We just we just have cost expensive. And we didn't realize it. And we gotta make that up. And in thankless, they every single year we've net we never lost money in a year. And so it's a hard thing. So I think that there's a liberty of bean will do what you want. There's responsibility for you and your team to be you know, to make because when you have also people buying houses having. Kids, right? Under your watch. There's amount responsibility feel so it's a different level. So it's awesome in the ways where you control your day. Yes. Right. Do you control your possibl your income? Absolutely. Are you responsible for other people that then thriving one hundred percent? I imagine it changes your perspective. When you when you find out when your employees is about a new house for their. I mean, and you're like, okay that they're relying on us to yes. In house payment. Yeah. Someone told me when when they're buying houses in having babies, they're comfortable with what you're doing. And so you better be. So. Yeah. So it's one of those things, but nothing that goes back to the mental game. It's like, it is awesome. And I think that when I first started I remember, I met my wife, and I heard dad was self employed, quote, unquote. Right. And I was like I remember the dinner table, and I had a job, and I was like I want to be self employed. And no idea what that means. And you know, what I mean, I realize now self-employed without an income is unemployed benefit that's the reality. But I think that the the idea is like when we when I look at entrepeneurship who want to go out and be self employed. There's things I would say to them that I've learned about that beginning process or wherever they are if they want to grow their business focus on making net profit, right? You gotta make money to pay yourself and your bills and reinvest in your business. So this idea of like breaking even or even raising money. Some people do that. We've never raised money. I don't know how to do that. That's probably why. But it also makes you wiser because like what you have is what you have which you may. Is what you make. And so you wanna just make sure you're good steward of that. But I would say that high level the less the lessons. I've learned is really is like no one else is going to the biggest thing is comes down to knowledge and information. No one's going to tell you what you need to know. You've got to figure that out yourself. So when you're running a business as me is like somewhat people. There's an issue on the one who has to like, I have an amazing team in there at the level to where we've trained them in their figuring it out in the day the buck stops with me, you know. So like, I gotta make sure I'm on my game. I gotta make sure my decisions are all point right Medicated. Like, I should be the most educated have the most information, right? The MO like I've got to be the person that they can look up to and be confident in so so it's a lot of internal work to new proof zone. Yeah. And I think that like the thing is. If you you want to invest in yourself as much or more as you're investing in your business. At any stage. Yeah. Well, said they're members quite prophetic. Thank you. Well, hey, so so let's talk a little bit about the non-profit side of thing. I heard dogs is you got lots of revenue you're making money yet. Still moving forward. How did you pivot a little bit in start getting into the non-profit side of things? Yeah. So this is great because I want you don't you're. So there's a lot of things here. I think that most people miss that. I want your your listeners to get. So most people think the model is I gotta make money somehow takes him home somehow earmarks, and then donate it. Right. And or I guess I in the SP you can do that frost. We're like, you know, what we want to eat sleep breathe. What the donations were doing when we want our customers to feel like they're involved because everybody wants to be a part of something bigger than themselves. Everyone does. So we said we're going to track this this thing, and we call it transactional giving. So instead of the motto where like at the end of the month, you say I'm going to take one percent. Or divvy out in donate. Every transaction we build in every transaction of physical impact donation. Here's an example. If you buy near military stuff twenty percents going to fund veteran service dogs, and we're going to let you know, we're gonna show you what that twenty percents doing in every single time you buy something and people that's a good one. The other way, we do it in our dog side, which is a little easier is we say, you know, you'll buy a product and it will fund ten meals for shelters period. Ten we keep track of all those numbers in every month. We remind you. Hey this. Hey, we want to Pat you on the back for being a hero because you know, this month, you fed three hundred shelter dogs contributed ten thousand dollars veterans. So they can fund service dot service dogs right things like that. So what we do is instead of waiting until the end of it we build the giving into every single transaction. And so I had this conversation with entrepreneurs they're like I want to give back because a lot of people really have a heart there. And when you're giving up the. A month and giving back your thinking about then when every single time you process in order, you know, you're doing good. It changes the dynamic you feel your team feels in your customer feels about how they're doing good. Now, I've always wondered how there's a lot of this going on it's agree model, and there's a lot of. Companies out there that building in from the beginning that you know, like a over in for every Pera shoes you buy we give off repair. So Jackie raise your price enough. So really your charging twice as much to she can give a free away. How do you work that into your cost analysis? That's great. So that the sorta answer for us, we don't, and that's because in the unlike certain and consumer brand market. There's like you're paying for brand. Right. Like this. She the Tom. She is are you can you know, you can buy those in China for certain price. Right. Like like, see your pet you. There's a brand premium that allows in if on that in the pet space. There's not you're gonna buy a dot ball. You're gonna buy a ball. Right. And you're not gonna pay like twice as much. You know what I mean? So for us. That's why we had to so we had to build the supply chain because we wanted to make sure that we could give enough away to make an impactful. So like for us by moving the needle back instead of buying from somebody else. Right. We decided to build it ourselves that allows us the margin to. Then do those donations in the real world in a real way without with the consumer right with the buyer and not be dislike overpriced, you know company. And and the other thing that we use that's different is in Thomas has his models. We really so we follow the donations through to the end user, and then we document their story. And then we bring that story back, and we make sure that our people who are part of that see that story. So we close the loop. But and so that's what we booked dancer question. A lot of companies when they're one for one. They are like they're looking at they're trying to charge a premium and they're trying to make consumer between us as marketing. We don't use it as marketing frost were doing this because we're gonna do it. We do it. You know what I mean? Like, we're going to do it regardless. And and so it's not like the model is like, hey, guess what we can get people to buy another paid thirty fifty sixty percent more because they feel good. Like, we're not in that business where the business of real impact in. So for us. We're gonna take products they that they they're consumers are buying. Anyways, makes him better opened up the margin by building them ourself and make sure we can tangibly give back in a measurable way. And then we're going in a way, we can document to show people. This is really what happened. So before you get into the nonprofits to if you were charging five bucks for a ball in afterward. You still charge five bucks for balls? Right. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. It's so so tell us how how does how does the the money flow or how does it work when okay, we're going to start funding service dogs for veterans or something else? Do you just find nonprofits to give that money to or you? Are you doing service dog stuff yourself? Well, that's a personal thing. So I'm more connected to that one specifically than I would others, right. Because that's that's where my heart is an in those are my people, right? You guys are my people. So some more connected there. And it's just a passion of mine. So, but here's the way, we work. So like in this world we live in. There are people who take advantage of this process. Right. And so what we wanted to do is we want to create him. Motto where we knew whoever's managing the grants meaning were for profit. And we're donating is making sure the people who are getting their absolutely qualified. And they're actually using them on what they say they're gonna do K. So with our motto what we've done is. We've partnered with a nonprofit so our funds. Get granted his nonprofit in that nonprofit manages the individual grants in the whole all the hand holding of like who are you is it legit. What how is the money? You know what I mean? Like all the stuff that makes it like. Yeah. We like, yes, it this was a good like it was a good transaction. Right. So instead of us doing that we're good at like, we're really good at building products and communicating and walking alongside our customers. Not this our partner nonprofits, really good at making. Sure money goes where it should be going and that it's documented in everything's checked. Right. And you know, there's a lot of people that may not realize that. But there are nonprofits. Spoke of whose sole mission in life is to collect money edition out to other nonprofits, right? And as business owner what I would say is like that's a great way to get started. So there's two ways if you wanna give back you can find one that matters to you, and you can work with them another ways you find one that has one more diversity in what they grant out. And then you can work with them a lot of times, they're they're gonna have like for us. They helped they helped build programs for us that we want to make an impact in which is easier. So if you go to nonprofit that that fund the funds XYZ like there, that's all they do. Right. But a nonprofit like this the grants out to multiple, for example. We said I wanna feed home like Lipton. We said we want to feed homeless veterans like that's we want to do that. And then they they walked went to partners. And they said, okay. You know, what here's a program we can fund, and you will be feeding it in. We'll know if you fund certain amount here, you're feeding a meal to homeless veteran, and this is how it works. And this is where it is in this like, and then we're like, yes. So they also able us to fight impact areas that. We care about our customers care about and then build programs on into that versus just being like. Hey, okay. Well, you can only give a toy. So that's it. Right. So. Different kinds of money. You know, there's there's there's there's really two big kinds of money restricted in unrestricted restricted money is like we're gonna give you twenty grand. But it can only be used on giving a service dog to an army veteran less restricted unrestricted. Money is here's twenty grand. I good luck. Right. Right. And in nonprofits, a lot of people want to give the the restricted money because they really wanna make sure it goes to what they wanted it to go towards so a lot of times not prophets are really scrounging for the unrestricted money because just to pay for daily expenses in management and administration, and all that kind of stuff, you know, the non sexy stuff the stuff that a lot of attention. No one wants to give money for that. So it right. And that's weird because it's gotta run. Well, here's how we do it, which is actually it. It's kind of a blend of both. So we cut what we'll do is. We'll put together we'll work on province. Okay. What's your cost for that? Okay. Great, which cost your people. Great, which are cost rebuilding. Great. Okay. Let's look in in will actually create donation amount that that basically every donation it'll fund that whole wheel right because you can't have right, right? Like, you can't have veterans getting service dogs of. No one's there training them. Or no one's are making. Sure, the dogs are okay. Or no one's out finding the next veteran who needs that help. Right. Like, so we look at it holistically. And we say, no, we're not going to say, no, you can't like you. Gotta find all this. We say, okay. What does it take to move the wheel? Okay. What does that number for that transaction? So that the you can find the veteran you can train the dog the better can get it. And you can support them Edwin all those things need to happen. Right. And then so we are are donations in giving are more holistic. So they're kind of a combination of both right there. Like, we know this is going to do we're gonna make sure it does it. But it's going to make sure that the whole wheel turns not just one small part of it. That's really I mean, that's really cool as never I'm sure that goes on a lap. And I've never actually heard anybody say that or explain it. So that's a really cool way. Go in about so good on you, man. Hey, enforce it. We're getting closer number time that we we've mentioned I heard dogs a couple times doing gap chance to put a plug in for her dog. How do we had we find you for looking for just dog products in general, right and see BDO for dogs or does CB? Do it for dogs consumable for humans. Yeah. We as human grade, which is common. Yeah. It is. So so for everybody out there. I heard dogs dot com. If you have a dog, you wanna buy duck toys products, uplands whatever you can partner with us by the site. You get in the quality that you can you should expect. But you're also gonna do something great for people. If you run sport veterans specifically, whether you're a veteran or your spouse or your mom or dad, or whatever you'd go and I heard dogs dot com. We have a military theme line. And it basically is you know, camel and things like that. But all that stuff does contribute directly to help us fund service dogs for veterans of PTSD. So that's where your heart is to. We can do that. If you wanna reach us on Facebook. We have over four million people on Facebook just on our main page. I heard dogs dot com Instagram, we have two hundred and fifty thousand anywhere you want to check check in with us. We love to chat. So that's where we are in school emotional give you the last word if you're talking to that the veterans soon to be veteran or military spouse that really didn't wanna get the j o b they really want to get into entrepreneurship, what comes to mind will come vice with. You have worm. I would say a jobs a good thing because it fun. It can fund your next thing. Right. So I would say acquire knowledge acquire knowledge acquire knowledge when the the best way to read. So if you want to do something, and you want to become an entrepreneur annual and move into that next level or you're getting out. It's okay to get a job to fund your next thing. So get the job. But then use your extra time and build yourself, build your mind, build your knowledge soon, if you do that you'll be able to capitalize on that knowledge and be able to kind of fund yourself into the next thing. We'll said Marshall, thanks for sharing your veteran. Entrepreneurs success stories fascinating. Glad to see you guys doing look for in your future success. And may will have you back on the show and a couple of years when you're, you know, a hundred fifty million go, let's do it has great. All right. Lisa veterans are Oscar. As you can tell from listening to the veteran on move, podcast interviews or a great way to tell your story and spread the word about your business. If you'd like to get booked as a podcast guest. I recommend interview valet. You can check out interview. Valet at veteran on the move dot com slash valet. Be sure to check out thrive. Fifteen dot com. The world's premier online education platform that helps entrepreneurs aspiring entrepreneurs enterpreneurs. Learn how to start or grow successful business. Start your free thirty day membership by going to thrive fifteen dot com and use the promo code veteran victory. Listening to veteran on the move your pets finder to freedom. If you like the show we review tunes reviews early. Really, she's so until next time this veteran is Oscar my.

Marshall Moore PTSD partner New York City Joe green Evine self employed Levin hotel Facebook fort drum army Levin Bravo USA Saddam officer Martial Maurer
Eric W. Fulbright II - Creating a Culture of Inclusiveness and Anti-Racism

Masters Podcast Club

1:15:45 hr | 2 months ago

Eric W. Fulbright II - Creating a Culture of Inclusiveness and Anti-Racism

"I Everybody Win Klay here and welcome to this. Wonderful issue of masters I am sitting with an incredible man and. I tell you I only heard about this wonderful man less than a month ago, and so I started doing lots and lots of research. I Bet I have done more research to prepare for this masters interview than any other interview I've done in the past, and that wasn't just because I needed to study this man to prepare. But because the material that I'm studying absolutely is at the forefront of what's happening in our country right now with social unrest. and. So we're all looking for mentors in heroes to guide us, and that's why this incredible man came into my. Awareness and I'm sitting here today with Erik Fulbright, who is the director of inclusive cultures at best buy so eric, welcome to maps and I I appreciated. I'm excited to be a part of this journey with you in excited that I was fortunate enough to marry my wife Janice, who introduced me to Paul Mitchell. Hall well, that's Great. You know we always manage to get the best of the best because of our spouses right there wants who keep us connected in the right way, right? Man appreciate that. So. Just a little bit more about who Eric Is. He is a twenty two year veteran of the organization at best buy Ns spent the last twelve years as a leader in human resources. Eric has helped a best buy define inclusive leadership, which we're going to get into today and become one of the best companies to work for his career hallmark is helping leaders. Co Create cultures where every employees feel valued and can contribute to their full potential. Obviously, I'm reading this but such great information in addition to his day job. Eric is an ordained elder longtime youth ministry leader and a coach Eric. Believe every human being is of immeasurable value and the best leaders appreciate the value through the purposeful creation of inclusive cultures. That's a mouthful. Eric has been married to his best friend Janice. Fulbright. For Twenty three years and they have five children the family loves to travel cook play sports in just find ways to be together I. liked that one to be silly together. How old are your children? So we have a four boys in one daughter so older son is twenty five he's actually practicing HR is well in the army on Fort Drum. New York have a seventeen year old son who's a senior in high school fourteen year old son was a freshman in high school and we have nine year old twins that are in the fourth grade. A boy and girl. Boy Girl twins all Mile My. Congratulations on that you have a twenty, five year old son. You don't look like you have a twenty five year old son so. That's why I keep my haircut low. So you can't see all the grey hairs that a growing. Maybe longer, but just convert your hairstyle. It's coming trust the you'll. You'LL WANNA bicket one day you'll want to take it all off. It's a good thing. So I want to preface this by letting our listeners know all the different topics that we're going to be covering here today before we jump into this and. Sometimes people say well, I'm not a leader. I'm not a manager I, never shop at best buy I have nothing to do with Paul. Mitchell. So why do I need to listen to this and so just let me give you a preview of what Eric we're GonNa talk about today we're GonNa talk about the importance of exposure eric says that without exposure A. Person will not have the opportunity to compose a great final image. We're GONNA talk about the importance of dreaming big because as Eric says, if you can dream big, you can hang around people who are big and things are going to happen converting dreams into reality something that Eric Prides himself on doing for others. We're GONNA talk about unlocking people's potential and as was. Mentioned before we're GonNa talk about inclusive leadership, which is the environment in culture at best buy, which allows your employees that best buy to bring their best selves forward. So there's a lot and this is a very critical and exciting time globally as we are dealing with and hopefully addressing injustices civil unrest in racial tension and I don't i. don't believe that we're. Born racist it is absolutely something that we are talked I believe that we all have the potential to be racist and to be judgmental I'm a white guy in my life experiences. Now, teaching me to listen and learn see if all I do is talk then I'm really not learning and not growing and I'm viewing this time. I'm experiencing this time in my life. With what's happening in this country as a time for me to personally learning grow. which again, Eric is why I'm so grateful to have you here today and I thank you for taking the time when I reached out to you immediately said, yes, and we've gone back and forth over the last several weeks to prepare for this and so once again, Eric, thank you. Thank you so so much. So let me just ask you with everything that's been going on. I have a feeling that you have been very busy in the last several months and just in a nutshell what are you experiencing right now? I'll I'll tell you the last few years have been extremely busy but what the last two and a half months have done is proven to those who have been on the sidelines that they've gotta get involved in this work of creating a more diverse more inclusive. More equitable cultures. On and not just seeing this happen in corporate America on. But because it's some of the non for profit organizations involved with you're seeing on. Churches in you know various. Uh social groups really begin to try and tackle this particular problem that we're seeing. Divide our country. In the reality is if You know pil away the emotion, which is really hard to do in just look at the data. You know right now the majority of our. Youth eighteen younger are. Diverse they would be considered what we call minorities. But what it really means is the balanced each lane those identify is white nine Hispanic in those who identify as something else is reaching a point where it's more balance in by twenty, forty five, that group that we have been calling the minority for so long in our country becomes the majority from a number perspective. And so you can get caught up in like who has the bigger Rupe, which I think is not very productive or you can realize what this means that they'll be more diverse opinions and perspectives in every environment over the next twenty years, and so how do we work together when you have adt diverse group interacting in sharing stories and perspectives if you can harness that is actually going to be A great benefit. If you look at any successful group or practice or any invention issues, a great diversity behind it, usually see it marketed as they particular person or group develop something and I don't care. If you looked at the light bulb air conditioner did GPS even the rockets that we send to the moon are very diverse teams to develop on those products and produce the outcome that we celebrate. In. So our ability as a country as individuals and as groups to really embrace diversity in in leverage, it hasn't benefit is one of those things that can actually propel society for as opposed to what we're seeing today as something tearing our society of art. Even without the social unrest that were experiencing. What you just said is just such great business. The idea of harnessing. And collaborating with the differences that we have. I've often said that to people who agree on everything means that one's unnecessary. We WanNA bring different perspectives and different opinions and different life experiences to the equation. Why? Because that's what's going to take us to the next level if we focus on on what we're not good at I believe that that's our opportunity for growth. It's easy to sit around and Brag about all the things that we know and all the things that were good at. But that's so limiting. You know if you're the smartest person in your organization and your family feel sorry for you. So we we actually do need to harness in a embraced that difference. So it and when you talk about being on the sideline. People are on the sideline and they say things like well, I don't see color. What do you mean by that people sitting on the sideline? I The line folks in you know there's been a lot of even controversy around you know former President Roosevelt number, teddy somebody says something actually quite profound in that. Is actually the people that are in the arena. This should be able to be the ones that talk and shared a perspective around. What is necessary in next because they're actually in the fight as opposed to the spectator is pointing and in shortage earring in San this is what's right and this is what's wrong in for a long time people have around these issues of inequality whether we're talking about economic or education or or in the workplace. People said, you know we've got all these laws that are in place to prevent these things from happening. Therefore they don't really exist anymore. Rice slavery was a long time ago. Civil Rights was a long time ago. Our country has progressed since then but again, I'm a data person. We when you start to look at the data is just not true in even when you look at the amazing laws the. Great Leaders did in what I consider very bipartisan ways. Often you'll see other laws counteracted that almost immediately. In so the reality is if you just look at sort of what is marketed towards you versus looking at the data in trying to understand what's happening. Not, just yourself but to others because I've been blessed to grow in corporate America in. So the narrative for my family is much different than a narrative. I experienced a growing up in so I could easily go. Well, that's not happening anymore because my reality doesn't demonstrate that. Well, if you're only looking at your own reality, you know you're GonNa have him for fix. You really gotta be able to look at different perspectives in fool picture understand what was happening, and so you when I come back to the sideline or comments like you know I don't see color. To say I don't see something is to actually discount. Someone else's experience. Like. Have when I see you I, see all of you that's inclusive of your color in just like people say well I'm proud of my blackness might my black Mrs Beautiful I feel the same way about your whiteness if that's how you would say that's how you identify that way. because. It's actually the collective diversity. The most beautiful is not the individual components of it though they all have beauty inish is most beautiful when you bring it all together you know a flowers beautiful not because of just the pedals or just the stem or just a lease it's it's the whole composition of it. It makes it truly beautiful not feel the same way about humanity in. So those that are okay with saying only components of it are beautiful or things are not. Actually the way that they're being described those are in my opinion like those fans of games that are you know making fun of folks on the poor. It you just can't do that. I'll give one more example turnpike od know in in the coaching arena for Wa you Mike. My kids were in use sports in I would see parents particularly in football. Yell at a child and say get up you're not hurt. I. Literally Turn Around and say they're the ones on the feel. If that child tells me, they're hurt their her. And you know as a coach, I felt like I had to be the number one advocate for the child even some cases when a parent wasn't. because often the people that are not Nazarene ah they're trying to drive the narrative and was happening and you gotta get into field and you gotta get involved. To really get a perspective. That's what's really happening. What a what a great analogy that is, you're not on the field you don't really know what's going on. It's just your perspective from the sideline. I'll tell you something prior to. The social injustices in the last several months I bet I pride myself insane. Oh I don't see color I probably thought that that was a good thing to say or to believing in I'm learning. I'm I'm listening and I'm doing better than I. was a couple of months ago and I don't think it's by accident that this social injustices in the movement and these diverse peaceful protests. Corporate response I don't think by accident that this all is happening during. The. Pandemic during the quarantine because there's like there's this captive audience. You know we're all on pause with work. We're on pause from going out to restaurants into the gym into. Salons in social gatherings were all on pause sitting at home waiting to be released. So to speak, and that's when this all happened is like everybody's attention is available. Everybody can can pay attention to this and I think that that's absolutely on purpose and is a very, very good thing. So do you feel like this moment in time is going to be different than previous movements and if so how do you think it's different? The realities I think it's GonNa be. Different for some. just like with any movement there will be some that will carry this yon passionate emotion into action in will at the same time bill ways to sustain that beyond the moment. and. You could see with some individuals and organizations as totally true. But at the same time because you know you can't get away from the fact that in the United States, we are predominantly in economic engine. In so its purpose for accidental, we're already primed to take advantage of any big moment. As a way to market or to. Make. Money. In so a lot of organizations to be honest with you. Are saying that they are you know supporting black lives matters. Through their platforms. But what they're really doing is they're benefiting from the marketing that you can get from doing that. In a way you could easily tell is the actions behind what they're doing. Because if you really behind a movement. Your action saw for the issues that that particular movement is facing. So it's one thing to. I'm going to write a check. It's something completely different to say I'm going to get involved with police reform right is going to meet with the governor. The mayor's the city council's the police. Department. To actually talk about the necessary change on behalf of my employees which representative of my community that. In this every day. Versus. I'm writing a check because to me it's just reallocation of marketing funds in many cases. In organizations that are really committed to this work, you're going to see them do things go far beyond. Just. Putting up commercials or you know instagram or facebook postings. Sand, airline to the movement if they've got to put action behind well, how do you find balance in that? Because you work for a for profit company best buy a for profit company and so absolutely, profitability is very, very important. So how do you balance that with the role that you play at best buy? Yeah. You know one of the things is you'd have to be able to look at what is your organization's purpose. Of course organizations make money. But Organization has to have a purpose that goes beyond making money. Because, you're making money and you know this because you've been a business owner in leader for quite some time win, it s going to flow you know in if you're so purpose is to make money. You can get really lost. During Times, like we're in today versus if you really clear on your purpose. Then what you can do, you can ensure that you continue to fulfill that purpose in these really challenging times. And that should produce an outcome that is resonant with your employees number one. And your customers number two that propels your business. It's just a different way of thinking of it. The result of that should be did you have a value proposition is resonant with the customer allows you to grow you like mentioned. Early on the call, you know one of the things that is built into our inclusive leadership behaviors is thought around infancy. In. So we were initially go into pandemic in we were adjusting our operating model to meet the needs of our customers and we began survey customers in say you know why is it that you continue to shop with us because we way outperformed Wall Street said we can do customer said that it was our ability to listen and understand and connect to what their needs were in this current moment. So they describe empathy as the reason why they continue to invest in us because we were investing in what they needed on as a customer. While you're talking I'm I'm I'm taking so many notes and I have so many incredible things to to ask you especially when we get into some of the steps that you use to define inclusive leadership with empathy is one of those things and we're gonNA get into that but I love your whole message about purpose that that every person every family and every four profit company organization needs to have a purpose and the purpose can't always be in fact I i. strongly believe that it can't be about making money money is the byproduct of doing the right thing. In my organization, we have strongly followed the philosophy of being a part of what call generation G. The G. stands for generosity, and there are so many studies that prove that eighty five percent of consumers will switch from one brand to another brand from one company to another product based on whether or not. That brand is giving back to their local community meaning I consumer as a customer I have a choice of how I'm gonNA spend my money and of course I make a decision. With my head, but also make a decision with my gut meaning. Do I like you do I trust you are just as concerned with doing good things as a good neighbour as a good citizen as a human being on this planet as you are with putting money in your pocket and you know this employees are more loyal customers are more loyal when they see that while their purpose really is not about making money. That's the byproduct, their purposes about making a difference on this planet. Went. So. Let me. You jump into this a little bit again I have lots of questions about your personal life in about your experience as a black man which I want to get into. But as long as we're talking about the business side of that. How. Did you end up with a career in HR inclusion and diversity for a fortune? One hundred company where where did you start? It's been an interesting journey in you know I'll tell you that. Initially I was going to school and become a doctor. I remember even when dating my wife sometimes, she would join me to anatomy biology classes. In that want to do with my life and. To be honest, a big part of that was driven by a conversation I had with my grandfather when we would visit my grandmother who was terminally ill at the time at the hospital. And I just asked him Eliza take to become a doctor in. The conversation was driven around the economics. Of being a doctor, what they earned in how they live and things of that nature in so. I thought that was why you know if I were. To rethink that today. That that wouldn't have been my. Determining factor still have a huge interest there because that's what initially drove my desire to be a doctor just didn't pan out because it didn't line up with the direction of my life at the time. In. So I ended up taking a few different deviations to that. My wife said, Hey I. I really think we should move out of city. We're both living in Chicago at the time with my oldest son and said, you know we think that moving out to the suburbs of Chicago would give him a better opportunities. which is a whole separate conversation but also, very true. And listen, we can grow our family from there in. So we ended up moving out to North West suburbs to Chicago. and. I needed to, you know to find work while continuing through school and I was working for best buy out North West. Suburbs at the time and someone while working here came up to me and said. What are your career aspirations? What are you GonNa? Do I said well, I'm going to school I'm I'm working here why going to school and they said you know you could actually grow your career here. And Sat me down in a break room and you it was a long time ago is one of those times you could still smoke inside in so that ages may a little bit as well. Win I'm sitting here trying to find a spot where that wasn't happening. And he said, let me walk through. You know all the opportunities that exists here. Next time best buy was a growing. Company is not the organization is certainly wasn't a fortune one, hundred company at the time. And He actually showed me or expose me to the opportunities. That were available and I grew in various leadership roles predominant in our stores. Over the next few years, I actually threw my wife May My way back to church and I GOT INVOLVED IN CHURCH MINISTRY? Particular Youth Ministry. And I actually thought that I was going to become a pastor at that point. That's what my calling was going to be from there in very similar to medicine. I start exploring that particular ask what? Going to visit seminaries and so forth in again had a leader who happened to be a friend. We had grown up an organization together sixty please as you're trying to figure this whole passing, just come work in my store. and Tony Like I. Really Think I'm done with this journey had been in these development programs to grow as a leader with an organization I thought at that point made up my mind I was going to become pastor. And but he convinced me while I was doing that come in and work with him. And one of the first things he asked me to do is to sit in one of his leadership. And I sat in his leadership meeting and I left leadership meeting. He said, you know what do you think? And I said, you know the reason you're not making progress in store is number one you're not aligned. In number two, you all have different priorities like everybody wants to win, which is fantastic. But they like they want to win for themselves. There's not an idea of we're doing this together and we're willing to give so that the collective can finish it. And you know he was caught off guard a little bit about the comment but I would say humble enough to say I'd like to continue this conversation more frequently. So My job came really informal in space in a majority of time I, spent in the stores around leadership development helping team develop the type of synergy. And strategy necessary to be successful together. Ended up becoming one of the most successful stores in the company of a location organization was actually looking at closing. insensitive actually you know has, but during time became the most successful stores organization. And so during that time I was asked. To consider a career in human resources and I actually laughed. because. At that time I perceived human resources as a auditing function of business you come ended in prepare for Department of Labor audits. You know you're you're focused on payroll and benefits and all the things you. Customarily, associate with HR. In. So you know I actually had a regional HR Armando say I would love you to spend some time on with some of my hr leaders and so I started going to a journey several a major leaders better understanding at work. And to continue be transparent, they actual practice of HR, was really evolving at a time into sewer district gic business partner rose something similar to what I was already doing with this location. Over a period about two or three years opportunity came up on to start sort of a business within a business. We had a partnership with a external company that we had been working with overseas. It's back when we had best buy Europe. enable came over to the US and we started a business sort of together and I was asked if I'd be interested in joining hr as part of this particular team in. So I agreed to do that obviously agreement in applying for it and being hired for it in code, and so I, I did that and was hired for the work. In we actually did a test with an organization and then about six months tests the HR leader of that program enemy instead do you think we should scale this across at the time twelve hundred? Locations. In a very short period time. 'cause you also know we in business. You gotta move fast even when it's a great idea as well. Also, could we do it in this very short period of time really felt like we could in job again to evolve it involves everything from talent acquisition to training to learning in leadership development. And so I had the opportunity in my opinion to receive what I would consider a master's or PhD level. Education in the function of HR, through this process in. So not only have the opportunity to be individual contributor in HR and opportunity to become more senior leader in the eventually to become a leader of an HR team side, a team of HR manager's across the entire US supporting this business. And then as part of that as I began to look at what we're to opportunities within his business. I developed this muscle around inclusion and diversity because I truly felt we had to we had to meet the needs of our customer in reflecting that customer in to understand their perspective in. So as we begin to deepen our investment as organization around inclusion diversity, very similarly someone say hey. Would you be willing to come and lead in this space in over the past couple of years? That's what I've been doing as an inclusion diversity leader for organization that story is incredible Sounds to me like you were still able to pursue your dream of becoming a a minister, but you're just doing it in the world of for profit. And funny thing is, now I'd get to do it in both and I learned actually the benefit of doing an in both is it helps both parts of life a whole life, but sometimes you wear different hats and when ministering literally in a church, there are things I bring from my corporate experience to help you know our our membership. To benefit when I'm learning in sort of you know organizational in neuro psychology in that space, and then at the same time able to take the experience. I it from working very closely intimately with people sometimes it Demos Ronald places places help our organization become more human it make deeper connections with our employees and our. That's amazing. Because again, your definition of of what hr means is very, very different than the definition of HR for most companies. As you said, most companies, the definition is HR is all about contracts and a handling disputes, complaints and payroll in that kind of stuff. and. You're taking into a whole different level where it's developing employees, personal development and leadership development of employees. I absolutely believe that if we teach people how to be better, human beings had fixed their marriages, how to become philanthropists had how to give back and make difference in their families and their communities than absolutely. That's GonNa serve as well because they're better more loyal happier employees and that sounds to me like the s the role that you've taken on. In you know the earlier part of what you mentioned right. So it's the policy and compliance part of it like every organization has to be good at their right because you have the risk, the risk is you know fines in employee satisfaction so for and you have to be able to avoid, you know the types of financial impact not being a good a fiscal Stewart through the practice of HR 'cause. However. That's not where your leverage comes from. That's not how you grow your business or your connection. You know that connection we'll call it what the industry which is employee engagement or customer satisfaction. It doesn't grow from those things. It grows from what I've been describing around making those really deep human connections with people where you begin to get discretionary effort from employees in discretionary income from. You you've said that part of the Vision at best buy what you've helped to create is that your employee population is representative of the customers in communities that you serve. Now how does that change from one community to the next because the customers that you serve in the employees that you might have in one community in one city might be very, very different than the makeup of another city? How do you? How do you change that between one store to another location? Yeah so What I would say if it was a matter of I. I don't think I could change it. I. Truly believe my role is to equip leaders to provide resources into be the sort of internal consultant that helps them learn how to do the work that we would describe as. Marrying their communities and making deep connection is with their employees. Because the leader has to do the work of understanding that community or the node in which they're going to operate. As Organization, our leaders have become quite proficient at that though there's still opportunity we're not where we want to be as organization. I was say that both of my non for profit work end of my work. But when you begin to equip leaders. What happens is they actually unit by unit begin to do the work that lifts the overall organization in. So when their intention is I, really want to deeply understand the needs of my customer. And I deeply went to understand how my employees are interacting in community work with the next community in does the value proposition offer the products offered meet those needs I'm you begin to see change if that's the motivation of every leader then you're going to get momentum if there's just a strategy is being pushed by particular person or group my case that'd be. Myself or inclusion diversity team it doesn't work on the has to be something that is understood in driven by every leader. Got Us. So if you're just trying to trickle it down from you by the time, it does trickle down really not going to have the impact of the right result. So I get it, you're empowering your leaders in every location to understand. The diversity of their employees and other customers to then take this to the next level. And Win if we could take it back, maybe another level, the macro level even beyond a corporate. America. May the things that were trying to address our systemic issues. In. So if the work that you do is not to change the system which ended up doing is putting stopgaps in place. In so you know one of the things that I've learned in this space over the past couple of years is a lot of the initiatives that we put in place. Are Actually stopgaps either for leadership or changing systems. In. So if you really WanNa, get you know the type of you know exponential or considerable change that we know needs to happen. You have to address the leadership issue and you have to really change the system is producing outcome. while. Because I think that racism can. Absolutely. Be Woven into the fabric of some companies and organizations. So. This inclusive leadership message that you have. Can we dive into that even more? Because you said that you divided this into four different areas that you have to be vulnerable, you have to show empathy you have to demonstrate courage and extend grace were those four things come from that came from your experience that came from surveys that you did input that you received. How did you come up with those four areas? So I shared a little bit this you know when we were. Working on the intro together. Most. Organizations today are telling their leaders to be inclusive. Very. Few have defined would being inclusive means until you define it, you actually can assess whether or not is happening. Or if you do, you're assessing it in so many different ways that you don't bill consistency. Or have any leverage to ensure that you're actually. Creating a more inclusive environment for everyone. So define is your first step is sort of creating a standard. In. So what I did is I began to research scholarly articles, other organizations that were further along than we are because the reality is. None of us are truly in this alone in an an information age use should be leveraging your networks and all the amazing things that other organizations and leaders are sharing to help advance your word. You. Mind if I ask you what some of those other organizations for. Today also is is spelled S. E. D. xl. So, international organization Deloitte also looked at a lot of the amazing work that J. P. Morgan was doing in this space on his will on my looked at several universities particularly from a data and analytics perspective. So there's some amazing work that has come out of. University of Southern California they have a partnership with a group called policy link. In a half some to call the National Equity Atlas and from an information perspective amazing data on those able to glean from that organization. In several other I would say consultancy firm from the Neuro Leadership Institute Korn Ferry I could give you probably at our loan list because there's just so much information out there. But what you do when you start to glean all of that information on I did leave out the Mackenzie group that was also pretty important having amazing article about the why behind diversity inclusion. But what you do when you when you gather information is you've got to be able to understand what is your organization's purpose in Business Strategy What are they really want to accomplish over the next five, ten fifteen years there's usually some sort of runway that the organization has developed and that's how you came up with these four things. But first of all, just that lesson of that leaders need to do the research will what what did they say if you steal from more than one source, it's called research. So the fact that leaders get the get the message, you're not in this by yourself, you don't have to start from scratch. There are amazing companies and organizations that are further down this path than you are, and you need to do your research and even reach out to them. You know in in the world of customer service, we we studied companies like Disney and and the four seasons. Hotel the Ritz Carlton Nordstroms, there are other companies and businesses for profit that absolutely have ideas that we can steal from so to speak. You're spot on win and I'll tell you. It's very rare. That if you look to make a connection. In, say here's an area that I'm really struggling. I've noticed that you have expertise in this space would be willing to give me thirty minutes or an hour to learn more. You get no. Matter of fact I can't think of a single instance isn't that true? Yeah. No nobody ever says No. What did they say? You only get what you ask for and and people are so afraid to ask for help they're afraid to reach out to that more successful business down the street and say, could you mentor me and I've never had anybody turn me down ever You're absolutely right in an amazing part about this evening as you mentioned some of the work about understanding your customer and community you've mazed what just slowing down and having a conversation with a customer which learn me now tell you what their experiences or you go into community and say, Hey, we're really struggling to you know to our business community what are we getting wrong and they'll tell you what you're. Getting wrong but often to your point, you don't ask yeah and nowadays they don't want to ask because they don't WanNa know they think it's just bad news my Gosh if my employees aren't happy that's bad news or not I want to know about it. If my customer had a bad experience as bad news and I don't want to know about it, it's not bad news it's information it's information that can. Help you grow to improve and to become more successful. Absolutely maybe it's twenty three years of marriage. I get lots of constructive. Criticism. And so now, Janice not shy about telling me when I'm getting it wrong and I. Always feel good by at least like I. Tell these now I know there you go. There you go. Well, can we jump into these four areas than? Free to define them again be vulnerable show empathy demonstrate courage, and extend grace. Can you can you explain or or define each of those and and what that means to your company's organization? Absolutely and. So you know one of the things that I mentioned you we we have our company values in. We're actually coming off of some pretty extensive rand work as organization. In. So our brand work resulted in what we call a cry called. Let's talk about what's possible. which is really an open invitation to everyone. So when I when I was thinking about developing these inclusive leadership behaviors, it had to start from that place of let how do you actually in Nabl people to be in space day? silly. They can truly talk about what's possible. In underneath that sort of rally cry in our brand are these three guiding behaviors and number one is to be human. To make it real. into. Tomorrow. Saying those again to be human. Make it real. Make It real in think about tomorrow. Tomorrow Great Okay. So for me that set the tone. For our culture. In guided me in defining inclusive leadership how would you define culture the word culture of how would you define that? Are the expected norms and ways of interaction that exists within a particular group tight in. So culture can happen at you know the. National Level, it can happen in cities have cultures. Your family has a culture our homes have cultures, right? Yeah. And so you know when I when I looked at our culture when I'm referring specifically to best buy. That helped me in defining inclusive leadership for us. I do think that what I'll share applies far beyond us, but it needed to make sense for where are we were operating in where we needed to go in. So as I'm sharing in this conversation, think is important. If someone says Oh, you know what Eric share really resonates with me yield to simply copy and paste because this isn't the only construct for defining inclusive leadership. Other organizations have different definitions in. So what you have to do is like like based on our culture, how would how leader be able to show up inclusive? Got It. Okay Guidance Guide us into this, the four component. So so number one is around vulnerability in this is this is the area where I start to get really particular even with our own organization because the order is also purposeful because one enables the next. So that first pieces around ability. And it it's so important. That we have a willingness. To, show weakness. With an intention algae to grow in be stronger tomorrow. Because an environment where you feel like you have to be perfect all the time. Or I can't night show up and say I just got a really bad argument with my wife and I'm I'm not at my best. Can we reschedule or my kid's really sick and sorry I wasn't focused on my mind was on them. Like we don't create spaces for that or is it simply say? I don't know how to do that. Now. Are you when you say those things you talking about the employer about the leader because I've often thought that a very attractive leader is someone who can say guess what I don't I don't have the answer for that but let's discover that together lot lot leaders think that to be a leader, you have to be a know it all and to me that's so unattractive. We actually started with leadership. In so we've exposed the organization to this, but we've been intentional that it really has started with our senior leaders are senior leaders have the most dialogue around this. I would say you know our CEO Corey Berry is not only a champion around inclusive leadership, but I see her trying to practice it in internalize it. On a regular basis. In. So when you when you see that, you know there is a work psychology term you know they were probably pretty familiar with of Co, syndrome right and you you basically describe it is like I fly I gotTa. Know at all. Well Being vulnerable means I'm GONNA solicit feedback like how am I leading? What do you need if you don't do that? You don't create an environment that it can actually be inclusive. because. If I don't see them at least releasing I really don't know exactly how we're GONNA do that. Let me pull in some experts like they got to demonstrate that. Because then a team now goes I have permission say when the leaders say honey do acts I you know I really don't know how to do that. I. Know It's important to our strategy. Let me go pull some experts. What's our time? It just changes the DIALUP. Great. Go onto the next one show empathy. How does that play out? What does that look like? Empathy is really about being purposeful about understanding the unique experience of everyone around you. If you. Are Not in my opinion astute at perspective taking. You're really gonNA struggle to create an environment of inclusion. Because often will feel like. Well, I've got diversity on my team or. The diverse folks are showing up. But if you're not truly taking the opportunity to learn about them, understand what their unique gifts and qualities and how they can fully contribute. If you don't understand those things are never gonNA truly feel like they're part of. And this is where things like you know allies shift in listening skills right are really important. Because as a leader if I'm not in a space where I can listen. Or I feel like employees can coach and teach me something. You never going to have the perspective necessary to really grow individually or grow your business. See. This is one that I really appreciate hearing because. My other. Part time job is as a speaker meaning it's my job I'm paid to speak I'm paid to stand on stage and talk nonstop for two hours. So the thing that I have to. Work on quite a bit is to just stop and listen. And Win again this is another spaces where I think our. Our friends, our families can really help us. In so have Janice give me a call. I love to ask questions she coaches me in this space a lot but I love to ask questions is listening to what people have to say I think we're imp the best way to build amphitheatres to become a question asker which you're practicing that all the time through masters. That's great. Well, thank you. That, this next area demonstrate courage is part of inclusive. We have to demonstrate courage explain that for us. You know some of these are actually two sided coins in. So courage is actually the other side of the vulnerability coining. When you bring up courage to leaders particularly MEL leaders, I'll be honest. They kinda go. Yeah. Get Courage right I'm going to stand up and do what's right But actually, you can't truly demonstrate courage until you demonstrated vulnerability. And I use it use the military example because everybody gets it when I talk about courage. Because we talked about how courageous the soldier was when they recognize that the renege or explosive device. With thrown in front of their unit. In they're going to sacrifice themselves to say they were so courageous. Reality is they were very vulnerable. Put themselves at risk. On. Behalf of someone else. So courage is not the we know it's not the absence of fear, but it's the willingness to act. But actually, it doesn't work without vulnerability. Really, try to get people to understand especially to struggle vulnerability part. That courage invulnerability actually worked together as a bit of a system. So how you see if if a leader is struggling with be invulnerable. I. E a they don't ask a lot of questions. They are the no at all. Then you feel like they're not gonna be very, very good at demonstrating courage. It's GONNA be tough. Because a lot of what they see as courage is based on their expertise. And their experience in their willingness to lean on that. And if you think about the environment that we're in today. None of us really have expertise we have history, but we don't have expertise experience about how do we lead and? Do you lead through social unrest in pandemic. Lead through social unrest and trying to operate my family who's taking school from the dining room table and bedrooms in a pandemic. In a year would probably the most. I'll call it. Difficult. Political We've seen in decades. It doesn't work in that system if you're just leaning on experience and expertise. You actually have to get to a place like you know what? This is different. We need to learn together I need to learn from you. How do we collectively? Move through this uncertainty moment together like excel takes courage while. This. Fourth One, extend grace. What do you mean by that? Grace was actually the hardest one for me for a couple of reasons number one. I believe in separation of church and State even. So in the separation of work in religion does the meat on bring your religion to work but you know I struggle you know was it this particular part of my life that I was trying to place into inclusive leadership in when I looked at the first three I said if I'm asking a leader to be vulnerable. To take on, learn new perspectives and have the courage to step out of which right What would prevent them from doing that? Because we wanted to do all those bold actions. And when I thought about it, particularly, even an executive. is going to be if I don't get it right it's going to cost too much. Like you can't fight against you know human nature and human behavior you have to work with it. And though you want people to be willing to step out when there is a cost, there is a point where people go. It just cost too much. and. So without creating a space where people realize that they can fail recover from it that they can fail in that their leaders going to say, Hey, you know what? I failed in his place to let me help you up unless move forward doesn't mean the absence of accountability. It just means that we have a growth mindset that were willing to help people improve from failure. We actually encourage it sometimes because when you fail forager learn in it, you find new ways of doing things. On. It became clear that brace was the component that was missing from inclusive leadership in even when I look for synonym to try weight using what most people perceive is a very. Church you were there wasn't a better word and as I solicited feedback even before we went more broadly with inclusive leadership. This particular word was the one that resonated the most with people. Word Grace. I think when are looking forward to do the other three things well Actually one of our cultural beliefs within Mike Company in Morgan Ization is that failure is not fatal. Now, some things are fatal stealing fatal, but failure is not fatal and and that's a tough message to send out that you can make your mistakes because the only way that we're GONNA learn, grow and go to the next level is that we have to take some risks and risks. Sometimes means that we'RE GONNA fail we're, GONNA, fall down so good for you that you've taken that on as a practice within your leadership within your company. So what is the difference between leadership and inclusive leadership? I I truly believe when that as we think about like. Wet leadership really means for an individual. You have some of whose an individual contributor. Who feels like I'm responsible for doing things producing things. Then you have the leader. Whose responsibility is to in my opinion people. Leadership is the individualistic recognizes I'm responsible. For the growth. In the positive outcomes. Andy Success of people. Like to me that's leadership. Like when I recognize that. You know what I want to make sure that. Wins podcast is the best possibly can be by you don't own that like I, feel like I own it as a person on the actual podcasts. As part of my leadership responsibility in the same way that you say Eric here, all the things that that we should discuss and be prepared. So I can help you show Biz your best that was used showing up as a leader, but it wasn't because your leadership was based on delivering a great podcast in either his mind it was on personal responsibility to one another. To the person that's leadership while. To me, inclusive leadership is more around the how. Again, I was trying to define the how the organization. In a help leaders see that you're not responsible just within a sort of narrow scope or vertical for specific groups of people. Like rashly responsible for everyone around us that we interact. In how do you do that in a way that's on beneficial to you. But also beneficial to those in which you're going to impact. In so you know there's lots of things around like your leadership shadow. But I, I truly believe that each one of us you know whether you know you're asked what I would consider a level row or sitting in the office of Yo. have an opportunity to show up as as a leader. And what I wanted to do is give definition in language on how people could do that better. In a way that included more of us not less of us. When you talk about leadership in in business in four prophet and. We've been talking a lot about a lot of different topics. A huge audience here as part of the Masters podcast are youth. So what message do you I? Love that giral also a youth minister what's the strong message that you are delivering to the youth during these times? In a lot of what I do particularly, the ministry is actually to remind. The adults of how capable our youth are. And you know there's a point in time maybe seven eight years ago. But there was a lot of noise around millennials in in genetics and Gen Y. The. Of Alpha generation ultimately news coming. In. How they're so different than everyone else. And you know when I stopped and thought about it. I realized that. You do know that we raise those children. Right. Now. Of US right when you reframe it, that way really causes people to rethink because a lot of dialogue was you know they don't WanNa work the long hours Yuna why they say that because we work the long hours and we were the ones in the offices. So seven eight o'clock and we missed the Games and we say you know when you grow up and you have kids don't do their. Time they. Listen. To US right. That's that's a great perspective but now now we're hiring them and we went up to do the thing that we asked them that today which makes like but the other thing I really you know focused on with us. Is Get really clear on what their purposes I remember this this conversation particularly with my oldest son. Because when you get really clear on what your purposes In what your talents are. You can begin to lying those to what you do with your time and you're gonNA. You're gonNA find happiness in joy in success and you know the thing everyone talks about you know going into college coming out of college is, how am I going to make money right to pay for all of this stuff called life? And don't start with the money. Because you can often find yourself doing things that don't make you happy or trying to supplement that the buying things that don't make you. Happy. But when you get really clear on your purpose and you spend your time developing those talents that really enable that purpose. All the other things will begin to fall into place. And you know when when you begin help you, are you think that way if it pretty much unlocks them around what they can go in -CCOMPLISH and it frees them from what often is you know you go to school and you know by the time you're sixteen seventeen you gotta know which are going to college for which we all know it most Ace's changes five, six, seven times. Instead of really helping him clear like what did they think they're parks are what a gifts and how you began to explore those in in really grow those talents inside you know I've been really excited that you know through Youth Ministry of at a pleasure working with some exceptional children have gone off to become musicians, engineers, and doctors in start businesses and most of them you know when you need them, you know they just want to play soccer or football or go camping, and you know Abbas Study Group like that's what they're into but when they start to develop those. They just see the amazing people they truly become. That's great. So I want to shift gears here a little bit. More on a on a personal level. So as a black man from your personal perspective, what's the experience of being a black man in America today? So. Personally. I would say it's it's very challenging. It's challenging in in two fronts from A. Social. Perspective. There's just so much pressure. There is a defeated people describe about you know when you get pulled over or you see a police officer, you know that's it's real. You know someone hit my son's vehicle a few months back and he called home I had sent him off to get your outlay for dinner for the family. And he said Hey someone hit my car was. Not, gentlemen and a pick up truck dad, what should I do? Come. Home. I knew that the community that he was an. Ineffective even though it wasn't his fault, he was parked when a person hit him. Depending how that narrative unfolded s? He interacted with. The pickup truck. And whatever police officers showed up. In my son being nervous. At the time it may not go well. and. So at the end of the day, a dent in having to pay to have his car repaired. Is Far easier to swallow. Than my son being wrapped up in altercation in a you know in the back of a squad car works. In I know that because of my own experience, you know when you're not shared a story with my wife and I first started dating. I drove a all black PONTIAC FIERO in. So for our younger listeners, you can Google Pontiac Fiero to see what it looked like it was a little sporty two-seater. And I told her I said Hey We're going to Hollywood video again dating myself. To get a video to watch together and I said I, just want to let you know probably going to get pulled over. within a few minutes of leaving your home. and. Then she kind of snickered instead you kinda big bigheaded fully yourself like you're not that important not that big of a deal. And I said notice probably what's going to happen and we may have made it amount Mala have. Ensured pulled over. I pulled out my license registration and asked what is being pulled over for. Any office say I just need your license registration and you know it was a white police officer. Any took my information which this car came back and said, well, enjoy your video Tell me why he pulled me over and he's like, nope, enjoy your video. In the reality is I knew I was pulling me over. The same reason why when I would leave our home and you know by this point in my life, my mom had you know put together enough money to move the family to a nicer neighborhood. I would go visit a friend and walked to the video store from my home and you know we would get you know Brad. I've been thrown against squad cars where you where you doing here. And it was just because of who I was. In so this has been going on for such a long time. In I know that if I come in my sued or business casual to establishment like a store or a restaurant. versus coming in with you know a some youth or some kiss one of my sons teams in sweats untreated dramatically different. But I'm the same person, the same sort of church in business leader I am all the time. But Society sees meet different. You know depending on whether or not I show up in a suit or not. because. I'm already perceived to degree as a threat because of the way that black men are marketed in the US and so I'm GonNa stop there to say something about others because I just don't want us to be about black men though that is what I said is true. Black Women and women of color in our country. Are Struggling even more. In so she thinking about will you help the programs that exist right now exists predominantly for? Boys. But. There's not a lot happening. For. Young black girls in though they do attend college at a higher rate. There's not a lot to help the what they're going through in your life as well. In. So again when you start to look at the data and this is what I, would really encourage. Individuals and organizations to do is look at the data and see. How are people sharing in education some holiday faring business look at places where you have influenced really look at WHO's doing well, and who is not in what you can do about it. These are the conversations that I personally need to have I have some amazing. People in my life both. In business and as friendships. Who happened to be black and I have never had this conversation with them I have never stopped and ask them what is your experience as a black man or as a black woman in this country I never had those conversations until all of this happened in the last several months. So I am learning and I'm I'm gaining insight. And I always assumed that a while it was only black men who had that experience that fear of being pulled over until a very beautiful well to do black woman. So she comes from privilege and yet she shared with me that she has that same experience that same fear of being pulled over and the experience of having her young daughter in the back seat, and she turns around and sees her beautiful young daughter fearful like that. That never occurred to me because there's a conversation that a that a white father does not have to have with this center daughter that black father does. One of the things that I will share with you win you know I'm really passionate about in this work. Is. What really drives all of this behavior. It is predominantly ear. Inn blame faced right in a blame comes from the underlying fear. To be honest with you. In so when I think about the perspective of The officer that is pulling me over or you know. You know in the past through me against the car on without cause all the other stories I could tell you or the officer pulled over the woman with her child in the back seat is what's happening in their mind? That's driving that behavior. Why does that fear exist? And so what I'm trying to do to bring all groups of people together a away to help us to really think about like every human being is of immeasurable value. In if we take the time to really understand and get to know people for who they are as individuals. Will often find many the SORTA single stories in false narratives that we believe about them because of. What society has portrayed about them. Are completely untrue. Favorite quotes is mark. Twain. Quote and it talks about how? Travel is actually it would actually eliminate. Prejudice. And Bigotry because when you go to places and you actually meet people you interact with them, you realize. Though what was share with? Me might have been factual. It's not true. And what I mean by that is it was factual knit in a sense that. That event took place the person that did it had these characteristics. But it's not true about everyone that. Displays those same physical characteristics? In our society is learned at a black man in a Hoodie is a threat. Let's not true of every black man Hoodie. Just. Like every white man with a leather vest Reina. Harley? Is Not in biker game. Right, he's more likely actually a CEO, with really expensive bite right around the wheaton right. I can't believe we have to start to wrap this up I need to version two and a version three with you. You have a lot of. Personal passions my gosh. This list, you have a family leadership, a root cause analysis, theology, photography cooking, gardening all kinds of aid that if you had to just choose one or two of your passions which one would you choose. It is tough, but if I really would choose. To. In I can keep all the ones at the same level. They are today I would probably say photography in in family. Now one because of idea photography I probably a double dip on the family thing some more there you go but I really enjoy. Just a joy of capturing moments in scenes. In seeing life without it being sort of plan so not as much into. Portrait photography the Colleague to challenge to me. So I'm doing more of it but I enjoy candid photography most of all. So to be able to go to an event whether it's a wedding or or I'm a lot of sports events in races, but just to catch people in their day thing. Is, my favorite. way to spend time doing photography. because. It just shows the real. Life. In how similar we really are. Catch someone who just got a random phone call in a busy downtown area near. Smiley. You know often I'll take the family out and we'll go for a walk I'll bring my camera with and just shoot while they're doing their thing. In some of the best pictures that we've shot together a justice, really candid moments of them laughing or you know throwing you know you know the wrapper of hamburger at each other for fun. The whole thing about being silly from earlier. In I, think we all need to take more time to capture the moments because it all goes by so fast as perfect. So. So what does current pandemic in civil unrest taught you about life? Is. Really taught me to that. You know you have to be clear around Wichita purposes. Because most of life. On his outside of your control. We didn't have any real control over how we would be able to respond to the pandemic. We didn't even know it was coming. On so we couldn't prepare for it. We all thought it would last week. So now his lasted months. However if you're clear on your purpose, you can feel that in any arena whether you're spinning in your home whether you're doing it of virtually like you are a win with the masters. It doesn't matter in. So you know what? I? Pride myself in you know because. I like to get into the tactics of things in enable things. Is as you clearing your purpose and you start to dream. Finding people around you bring dream come true. They help bring that dream to reality. Because I think for myself. That's the gift. Always don't have the biggest and the best dream. I usually can find a way to help enable that. Whether it's to be a component of it to really be able to build out a plan to help brain at dream to life I believe that that's what I did with inclusive leadership. From my organization. How show up in ministry in as, coach. And I truly hope that way as a father and a husband I. Hope I've done that for you today win through your. PODCAST my Gosh you've you absolutely. I hope best buy takes really really good care of you and pays you a lot of money because I've seen it as a lot of companies who after listening to this GonNa want to steal you away so They take really good care of me in at the love the love is mutual. And you know I'm a big component of finishing what you start. So by can't thank you enough having this time with you but also doing all of the studying in the research prior to having this interview with you knowing that I needed to the rural clear on on what I wanted to gain from you what I wanted to share and how I wanted to guide this. I did do a lot of research I shared earlier and I've just have gained so much by this a brand new relationship that we have and I'm very, very grateful. Thanks Eric. Now. Again my pleasure I'm humbled to be I'm invited hopefully this is the beginning of a long life friendship in a police think your your team for taking such a wonderful care of me helped me understand. How to engage on your platform and making sure I had what I needed to spend time with. Thanks Eric you're a good man keep it up. You.

Eric United States Janice America Pandemic Paul Mitchell representative HR leader Fulbright New York Fort Drum Erik Fulbright Department of Labor director Neuro Leadership Institute Wa football University of Southern Califor instagram
AWTR Show #721: Reaching For Spring When Winter Lasts Forever

Army Wife Talk Radio

18:32 min | 9 months ago

AWTR Show #721: Reaching For Spring When Winter Lasts Forever

"Attention know spouses families and service members. It's now time for another empowering episode of Army White Talk Radio the leading and longest running podcast of its kind. Awt are is here doing gauge and encourage you by sharing dynamic interviews social media connections news and empowering military life information here are your Awt our hosts your Army Wife Network Command team their army wife network fans and followers and anybody else who might be stopping by before we jump in. I would like to tell you a story so normally we do. Facebook lives precisely at ten. Am every Thursday and you may not be o'clock scientist but if you look there check your watch. It's not ten o'clock. I'm forty nine minutes late because life happens. I'M NOT GONNA get into it but technology is so cool until it refuses to work. I think my external microphone decided to die which is weird because I just bought it recently and then I was like a earphones headphones ones. I charged apparently didn't charge and I think my husband who was. Tdy Right now might have taken my other good pair. So we're just gonNA roll with it. Say this May or may not be rock star quality this relief. That's one thing we want to share here at. Aws is we are real mill spouses. It is real-life we all go through very similar seasons as you and let me introduce myself in case we haven't eaten it before. I'm sure he did not block your Army Life Network owner in commander and today we are talking about seasons. Don't panic. I'm not going to get all meteorologist on union because I'm also not whether scientists or o'clock scientists. I'm really not any kind of scientist. That's a discussion for another day. So before we jump in today it is my honor to just say thank you to I come in for sponsoring this episode and this mill spouse empowerment moment. We are grateful and couldn't do it. Without our faithful supporters and partners I command offers complimentary financial plans for active-duty military e five and above. So if you fall in that category I would highly encourage you to go ahead and go to. Www DOT financial. I command sorry. Www DOT I command dot com to learn more and find a financial coach near. You my husband and I in this season. That is all about adulting. We reached out to. I come in here and I'll pass it last year and we are working with Mr George up the road to learn about how to invest in our future and how to make good choices and it's been a pleasure working with him so far so again if you're in a season where you would like some financial direction checkout www dot. I command DOT COM. They are there for you in all seasons of life which brings us to our topic today. Last week I went for a walk here in El Paso which is one of my favorite pastimes. Walking is good for the soul for me Burns. Calories gets me some fresh air and I went walking and I looked over in somebody's yard. That was down the road and my heart. Just got all gooey inflammatory. Because I saw the first golden of the season in their yard and hearing all Paso in the desert when the golden poppies show up that means spring is right around the corner as I was thinking about that warm and fuzzy spring feeling because it just it's warm and fuzzy it's spring and I love springtime. I also thought about my friends in my family in other parts of the nation who may not be seeing spring anytime soon. Maybe those in the Midwest. My Mom and dad live in. Kansas and my awesome parents-in-law. Hey let's you're probably GONNA be watching the minute. They live in South Dakota. I have friends at Fort Drum for Wainwright Alaska in Joint Base L. Dwarf Richardson in Alaska. And so I thought about those folks while I'm here celebrating my golden poppies. It probably is still not so hot minute before they get to experience their spring and their summer. The same thing can be said for us is mill spouses. We all have those seasons where winter seems to last forever when I talk about a metaphorical mills bass winter. I don't mean those times of when you wake up on Christmas morning and your heart is all aglow in this brashly. Spall and snow is outside and it's pure and clean and white. I'm talking about like the January February's marches where it's in a gray in the snow is not so white anymore. It's murky and just kind of like those are the seasons of mouse winter. That are so hard to deal with and in those moments we wonder is the season ever going to end for a male spouse winter. That might look like you've just gotten PCs orders. Maybe somewhere good. Maybe somewhere that you're not so excited about but it's still far enough out that you can't start talking about yet or you're talking it to death which you can't start really planning a whole lot or maybe homecoming countdown. Where it just seems like this deployment is never gonNA end. I mean adults come. Help me with my kids. Come just clean my house. Oh my gosh are we gonNA make? It can also be when you're trying to navigate those hard phases of life whether that's parenting tiny human jumping back into the career field making a career transition making friends that have new duty station anything like that. Those seasons of confusion in weariness just seem almost overwhelming. So we know in our brains brains. We know winter will not last forever. I wrote a blog about this several years ago. And that's where I pulled a lot of this content from the message about it. But how do we get our heads to catch up with our millstones hearts? We want to reach for spring but the winter lasts forever. Great Question Well I've been there done that several times. Actually while I am no expert again not a scientist not even in mill spouse wintering reaching spring. I do have a few things I'd like to share with you today. About all things mill spouse winter and how to reach for spring first of all. It's so important to break it down into manageable chunks. I think with millsap life especially the winters. They just seem huge and overwhelming. And it's so easy to be like I'm never gonNA see a day of sunshine again. Those golden poppies in my life are never going to bloom again. We know that's not true. But if we don't break it down into manageable chunks in it remains overwhelming. There's a good possibility you're gonna find me like going to town on a bag dubbed chocolate in the recliner or rocking back and forth in the fetal position which is okay intermittently but maybe not a permanent strategy to adopt right so if counting down the days or counting the days for a deployment or PCs or until the baby's born until the HR department calls you back for your job. Break it down and this is where I engage school skills. Don't worry it's not gonNA involve the quadraphonic equation for all of you. Math Whiz is out there. Good on you. I am not a math person. I am a words girl. I will clearly right and talk all day long. I'm sure many of you are shocked. But when desperate wintry times call for desperate springy measures? So here's an example of how to break down into manageable chunks a deployment instead of saying. I have hundred seven days left. Possibly until my I see my spouse again we can say something like a percentage same thing like a few years ago when I was running a marathon by one and only marathon. Don't get excited one and only never again great but it is so easy to be on like mile seventeen of your journey figuratively literally metaphorically and just be like great. I still have nine miles to go. This is it ignominies. I'm going to die. I just can't I can't I can't right. You just want to sit down at the on the side of the road but only after you tackle the pizza guy in eat. Whatever he's been carrying right 'cause you're just like I don't want to run this marathon anymore. I'm so done but if we change our perspective in engage our math skills just a little bit is sort of saying we have nine miles to go which can seem like an eternity overwhelming. We can say I only have thirty five thirty four percent left of this trip. I'm over two-thirds done. That's that's encouraging. Over the halfway point and at that point we can keep going and pushing pushing forward the next thing I will say when wintering as mill spouse is to reach out for support and encouragement. We talked about this. A few rod casts ago about how to become a better battle buddy and how to build community especially when hope when it's like when we were coping when our hope feels broke community has been such a lifesaver for me in those wintry seasons. Those folks are the ones that hopefully art in a similar winter season. If they are. That's okay and you can. Winter together might recommend hibernating when in doubt taken up. That's off topic but your friends can be the ones that come along side you and bring you chocolate chip banana. Bread when your husband decides thickly. Tdy In it's finals week. Furred This class dissertation. Thank you Annika. We really loved the banana. Bread was chocolate chips or they can also be person that shovels your figurative sidewalk. My friends came over last week. We have a weekly meeting in caitlyn enjoying it. Came over last week and guys. They cleaned my kitchen and folded my laundry. It took US thirty minutes and then we ate cake and ice cream? 'cause my son's birthday was last weekend. Why Not Leftovers? But they helped me clean my kitchen and that has lasted for like days. It I go in the kitchen and I'm reminded not that make you choose clean because it's not super clean anymore. But they were there and they helped me to reach out for community and help. That's what we're here. That's what we're all about here. Army Wife Network and we just WANNA offer encouragement in that third point. If you feel like you're wintering in this season set a goal. That's completely unrelated to your season and go after it. I'm a goal setter. I love those kinds of things and it doesn't have to be a super huge goal which we'll talk about that in a second but just the weather the storm wait for those golden poppies wait for the trees to blossom and let it be something you enjoy not something that feels like work. I know that's a tall order but if it's something like three miles a day that's awesome if you like to run and you feel recharge when you're done but if it is like legit work and you loathe it or despise it pick something else. Read one book a month. Take up tangling. Do that therapeutic coloring for relaxation. Have coffee with a friend just something that can help you. Move yourself forward as you wait for spring. Also celebrate little victories and cultivate an attitude of gratitude. I think our world is all about they again the loud which is okay an absolutely if you ran a marathon written a book birthday baby. Pcs across the world by yourself across the country across state lines whatever. Absolutely throw a party invite me I will come help. You eat the cake. I will bring ice cream. Just tell me what kind you want. We want to celebrate those things but we also want to celebrate the small stuff because not every day is this life altering epic victory of massive proportions. Celebrate the small staff the day that you kept the babies alive China humans alive. We all had cereal for supper and they may or may not still be wearing the same clothes from yesterday but for the most part they are clean dry healthy. That's a win celebrate it. It's like the small victories. Are that first blossom on a tree that inaugural golden poppy blooms on the rocky soil eliminate. Some of the best parts of winter are the not doing the big things. The January is where we get to snuggle on the couch and Binge. Watch something on Netflix or snuggle with their kids or talk to a friend as far as gratitude. This is huge for me. And I've written several blogs about it over on army life network DOT COM and. This might be easier said than done but for me it is a game changer. Eleven years ago What am I men? Tours gave me a book by an Boskamp called one thousand gifts and her challenge was it is very deep profound book but her challenge was also to have people write a list of a thousand things that they're grateful for and I started this in two thousand eleven. I have kept it up pretty pretty consistently over years so this'll mart what year nine already which is crazy but I still ride in everyday. Just the little stuff again. Tiny things tiny things ear buds. That stay charged. Let's say that's on my list today but another time it will. But that'll be good microphones work that will go on to actually this morning. I added my heartache number again. Not so good with the numbers. I added number. Twenty three thousand two hundred twenty six item to my list. I have several journals now. Full of things like fuzzy socks in Dingley earrings and shiny headbands and leftover birthday cake. Infringe that clean your kitchen. Doing facebook lives when it finally works online right and so it is an encouraging perspective. It is hard. It's an impossible for me to stay bogged down in all things wintry when I flip through that book that is something very empowering and I would encourage you to think about that so to recap when you are reaching for your spring in your season of winter. Break it down into manageable. Chunks engage those math skills reach out for encouragement and support. Try Setting a goal. That maybe you've never done or take up a new hobby and celebrate those big and small victories as you cultivate. Attitude of gratitude dough. Forget if you're in a winter season financially hypothetically waiting on the tax return and you would like some support as he reached for your financial springtime go ahead and get connected with. Today's most baths impairment moment sponsor. I command financial services with a five financial consultants directly related to veteran and military life. They're uniquely qualified to help you pursue your own financial security to be saved for that not so rainy day in a future season they get where you're coming from no matter what season you're currently in. Check them out at www dot. I command DOT COM to learn more or find a financial coach near you three likely. They're right around the corner today. We just want to encourage you to keep reaching for spring even when it seems like winter's GonNa last forever because it's not going to be forever in might feel like it but mel spouse my friend. You can do this if you need some encouragement in this season connect with us across any of our social media platforms at Army Wife Network Dot com check out our website. We have literally. I think we're almost at like two thousand five hundred blogs on our website. A lot of them are really encouraging to remind you that you're not alone in this winter season. You can do this. And also if you wanted to contact us directly citizen Email Info at army wife network DOT com. I respond to each and every email personally. So you say I'm station for Greg and Sunday shining but I miss my husband because he rapidly deployed in January and I just want him to come home and just just hired man tired sister. Email me I would love to encourage you to pray for you in that. Because you're not. You're not alone in this winter season. Let Me Life Network. Come and metaphorically shovel your sidewalk. Get that snow out of the way for you. You can also check us out each week here. Hopefully next week will be back on schedule With our regular meals bass impairment moments ten. Am Mountain Time Twelve PM Eastern right here on baseball. These will also be posted later on Youtube as well as turn into an audio podcast. So remember if you're in a figurative season of winter regardless of your duty station please know that we here at eight Cheering for you hang in there. Springtime is coming engage. Educate encourage army wife network is your source for military life empowerment. This is your eight of you in command team signing out. Thank you for tuning into Army Wife. Talkradio the views and opinions expressed in our show. Our personal awt are is in no way affiliated with the Department of Defense or any other branch of the Armed Services and inclusion in. Our show does not reflect endorsement by the dod any local government or their agencies until the next episode head over to www dot army wise network dot com to connect with all of our empowering resources engage educate encourage may is your source for military life empowerment.

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SO Unbecoming Episode 18: Writer, Marla Bautista

SO Unbecoming with Jamie Muskopf

28:23 min | 1 year ago

SO Unbecoming Episode 18: Writer, Marla Bautista

"Hello and welcome to episode eighteen of so unbecoming. I'm Jamie Musk off. And as we're getting closer to the holidays I just WanNa say a special. Thank you to everyone who standing watch out there and uniform and all of you who are key things together on the home front. I appreciate your sacrifices and hard work every day and I'm so grateful to produce PODCASTS INSERVICE to you. I listened to a podcast yesterday by Michelle Berry Franco called thought leadership school and immediately think of the conversation. I'm about to share with you today with the incredible about Teesta. Marlin is an army spouse a mom a writer and she's all about leading from her own story when I had this conversation with Marla. Awhile back I really thought I need to do so unbecoming the after show because she and I talked for a long time after I stop recording about the things she shared during the interview. I know you're going to be inspired when you hear her too. So let's get to my conversation with writer Marla Teesta so welcome. I'm so happy that we're able to talk today. Give us a little bit of background on you. Tell us your name and where you're from where you are now and In what you do name is Marla. I'll tell you that I am an army. I I am originally from L. was raised in Denver Colorado and I currently live in Fort Drum New York. Oh that's that's a big transition from you. Know all the way from the West Coast to the east coast but I am a military spouse. I'm an army wife eleven years. I actually married my husband after a meeting. Have thirty days prior. So that's for another day But so the beginning of our mirrors was kind of you know I was working full time and my husband was in the army reserves which really been money It didn't pay any of our bills and so we were kind of struggling financially I haven't got. He got temporary job working in a warehouse and this kind of helped us financially but it wasn't enough And then I actually ended up and so I was like. Hey something's gotta change like I'm working my butt off. I was working fulltime plus overtime. Who is doing side jobs In picking up dog poop on the weekends is on the cool side job. Just say no. I was doing it in so I was pregnant and that lesson as a nigger So I decided that him going active duty would be the best for both of US ended up going active duty in the army and are first active duty station list barracks ally and so we actually moved over there. I actually did have having a miscarriage. Unfortunately So we moved over there. He jumped straight into army life. We've lived on Paul's gwen straightaway to training on the and he was deployed. Now I said earlier. They had only ninety days prior to getting married. This all happened within about four of us being married when we're moving. Why and he was already gone on. His is so less than a year is being married. We were preparing forward plans to Iraq in so that was really hard for me. I have my job in Denver because I you know. Of course I can transfer my job. I worked in hospitality industry in some we got to Hawaii. I actually was looking for. Boxer is a lot of hospitality jobs in what is actually Interviewed in gotTa Job there and before my husband deployed. We would preplan counseling which is amazing. Because we're allowed to talk about our expectations during the climate With our spouse and so we were talking about it and my husband's like well if you're working how would I call you? How can I talk to you? And I'm like I don't know going to work so all of a sudden a little different as an army style. That was no longer than that in arguing. I now as an army wife. Who so purpose. In my opinion a good care of my soul your eye on role taking care of my soldier. I didn't take the job when a soldier not employees. I sat at home. I did a little bit of volunteering. Took some classes at the army community service ultimately my lifeless around it in taking care of my soldier I kind of lost myself in that. And that was a years of my life Was just taking care of him preparing for deployment blowing through at twelve month applying as we had before and you know waiting by the phone and this was all before facebook. So is the phone rings. You didn't receive that phone call from your husband now you were. You know chance you had anxiety is something happened. Usually with apple Owns off out in Iraq and there was no outside communications. So you didn't know your husband was okay or you know what not so. It was a very hard time for me Over the years I cream Solely focused on him having children and then I was on my children so ultimately I kind of lost myself. I lost my own identity. I lost at independent woman. I used to be so over time. I had to learn how to get that back. So what was the thing that was was it year? Children reaching a certain age or was your husband reaching a certain point in his career. Kinda gave you what. What was your green light? Marla go for it moment. So my goal quart moment and this is an A. Hannah be a little league is not a great bell for moments actually and my my light went off inside of my head was when we had situation of infidelity and are near And that's when I realized that I lost myself. I realized that I was doing so much for this other person. And I I wasn't giving anything to myself In that happen I realize that not only was I not getting something to myself. But he was also seeking something somewhere else and so ultimately it was almost like a double whammy and so at that moment it clicked inside me at. You've got to do better for yourself because you can't give all of yourself to someone but that doesn't mean that that's going to be reciprocated. Nor does that mean I will fulfill you and I wasn't fulfilling me and so I had to do better for myself. I was literally spending years at home. This taking care of my kids and my husband and also these functions in me at spouse that and has that fulltime job and oh is your husband and she's like oh I don't know and I I in the world is at my whole life was consumed by my soldier Higher existence was about him and I would have never known that it was almost a blessing in disguise. I hate to say that but it was a disguise if that would have never happen. I have noticed that I lost myself. No because I thought that was whole play at that point because I thought so trained into just taking care of is over the years you get lost in that And I that one. I used to be that was God. That wow that is a big revelation and I think I I certainly can relate to that story and I definitely had my you know I I I would say. Had a green light moment and Fortunately it wasn't that kind of moment but because that is a big wake up call But you know how incredible that you were able to work through that and work past that you're still married today and you're doing these phenomenal things. I mean you're a military spouse of the year you are a writer. You're all these incredible things and I. I love that I love that. You have come through that period of your life in just and you're just you're not just doing okay. You're doing phenomenally so tell us about some of the things that you did We certainly don't have to go into the marriage part of overcoming headed if you don't want to but personally what are the things that you did for yourself? That was like okay. I'm this is how I'm going to get marlow back one piece at a time. Well the first thing that I had to do in all honesty was go to counseling and not just marital counseling with something that we get as well as a couple of housing for myself. Kind of find out. I lost myself in the first place. What happened to make me Wants to go down that path in leave myself behind because you can go down that path with your spouse and you still maintain your sense of self But then there's a lot of times where you know where it's hot in every In the military culture that our soldiers importance is is the nominal is Yoon Arison to the the importance of the family. Unfortunately in so I kind of Alaba- path soul counseling was one of the first decided realize. Hey I actually want to do something with my life. I had his fire to be a writer. I actually started college of age of seventeen going to community college and then life happened and I ended up propping college and so when I was about twenty eight years old Is after all this stuff. Happened in idea counting. I guess I want to go to school but I don't know how that looks or how to do it so it was. I went to the Education Center on Poles and I talked to some of the visors area. There's advisors from different schools off in at a military installation as usually about four schools as though. I talked to all of them find out you know what what path I should say and so I was. I was Louis intimidated now. I'm not a college for over ten years I had any I am now. I had to was Germany at the time and so I was like. I don't know how to do this so I talked to them and I told them. I want to be a writer. I don't know how to to get into that field Academically as what I wanted to do and I you have to be honest so I was on with them and said Hey. I'm really erred. I don't want to take a full time schedule because I don't know how my life or the life of my children So if I can start slow I'll do act so I suggested. Hey Hey class at a time and you can do it online if you want to. Don't have physically both to a school center To receive your education. You're doing online missile. This was like oh my gosh. It was so amazing for me to hear this because this was something that I could start off slow and kind of worked my way into it So I am taking one class at time. I was actually majoring in English I took one class at a time in the school I was going to Was AMAZING BECAUSE NOT ONLY? Did they offer online classes? But they offer Hybrid classes in in classroom classes as well at the education center so I was really grateful. I had options. And that's one of his aides or meet with the stepping into school was that I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I need it those options there for me so that I can say okay. I want to do this but if I came to my mind as okay do And so that was really important for me is one of the first things. Was you know getting that class scheduled out? So I met with the advisers I registered for school oftentimes as military spouse your registration fee Free or low cost In so I register for school and I got my class schedule And I was only taking one class I thought about my AGFA and a lot of people. Don't know that you're GONNA our chips. Dot Com are of our troops for different things for military spouse. People of Color for disabled people burst so many different categories of scholarships that you can get at our at his free money that you will not have to be required to pay back on. You have to ask your classes and fell for me. That was an avenue that eye to eye visit is operatives dot com and I feel about followership applications. I use fast one and I got Pilgrims from government and I also use a army emergency relief. I don't know specifically speaking for any other branches. Though in Army army emergency relief also in certain places will provide funding for school. And so that is well and so. I actually started college. I ate nothing at a zero dollars going to school. And this was another thing that impacted my education because now all of these things are kind of scary. If you don't know where to begin you're like oh can I afford is I have the time for this and ultimately I could afford it because it was free and I time because I take class and I can do it all lying while my children were sleeping while they were still owns daycare or there was just so many other options for me so I was grateful for that so I started going to school one class at a time and I ultimately built upon class as I felt comfortable silent while class and I started taking two classes? All the way into a full time schedule. You don't have to do that as glass throughout the duration of your of Your Education. I more comfortable asked. Hi What I. I was. Regaining that sense of cell. I was I was doing a concert. Is Allow that allowed me to continue on to do more so I continue to do that. In the ultimate leave ended up getting my associate's degree in general studies with Hispanic background. And I got my bachelor's in communications I did swift by major in as another ing. Bat Is Super Amazing about this. I went to and many of the schools. You can you can change. Anytime is your relies. Hey that's something at night but had a little more difficult in my audit would be. Were either null interested in that subject. You can keep your mate. And that's I. I switched from English to communications. Which to me is kind of insane family. A little different is so I was see myself Air My bachelor's degree awesome. I love that I heard a lot of really important things at what you're talking about. The first thing was that you went into. It took me a resource. So you knew that there were resources on post And there are typically are in most military installations so you went in and but you also went in knowing what it was that you wanted to do. You said I want to be a writer and honestly I and say probably my whole life. I wanted to be a writer as well. And you know how you go through your life where people are like. Oh that's nice. It's like saying I WANNA be a baseball player or something. I don't know what it is. I people Over the course of my life have been like a writer. That's weird but so I feel like I've actually feel like that's quite a realistic goal. Especially these days but you know I would. I would also think it's important for anybody. Who's out there who's thinking? They want to go back to school wanting to do something to not see. Whatever it is they want to do is kind of a pipe dream. At least start there. You know because I think in the in the course of your story learning how you went from English to communication. I think that makes a Lotta sense because you know communications puts you more in a place where you can quote unquote do something with your degree. It makes it a little bit more actionable in specific Which is Great? Not that there's anything wrong with being English Major. I think there's lots of actionable things out of there. But certainly it's it's pointed you in a direction that you've followed a and I think that follows your natural abilities and talents so and I think that's the beautiful part about education So I heard that I heard you knew what you wanted. You took advantage of resources. You also looked for. Other resources scholarships super important. I think that's the big thing. A lot of people don't know military spouses is that you can take you being a funding. That's out there. It's not military focused funding even though you can absolutely take care of your take advantage of your spouse's Gi bill if he or she so chooses to give that to you. Fortunately my spouse was very generous in the fact that he gave me his Gi Bill. And I will. I'll never be able to repeat and maybe I will but I feel like that was such a great gift. and But you can take advantage of things like that so definitely knowing that there are other resources to pay for things was definitely important and then I think the big thing that I loved about what you say I loved it all but one of big things I loved about what you said. Is that you re you recognized. You can do it a little at a time because I've talked about. It's kind of a theme. That ends up coming up when I talked to military spouses is if you've been out of the game for a little while or if you don't know where to go everybody wants to go go go. We're very ambitious people military spouses and I know you know so and everybody wants to do everything all the time and you want to go on. Everybody says you're supposed to finish college in four years. You're supposed to do things in certain timelines and honestly you know. That's not always realistic when it comes to what we do for a and what our life looks like having children etc etc so. I love that you looked very realistically at your life in at the things that were required at that time and said Okay I can ease into it one class at a time and that it allowed you to build your confidence because that's certainly another thing. I see military spouses. Struggle with is the to get back into education or get back into the into the workforce so I love that that message What are all was kind of advice already? But what are some other things that you would tell military spouses who are hoping to restore or to grow their professional careers during active duty life with whether it's related to education or just overall self preparation so definitely getting involved in your community is a and I see that we can do to? You can also help build confidence but it. Back into the workforce so if you volunteer. There's so many different positions and different entities your involvement. Here in a in your house and outside of your military installation as well so you can build your skills that way as well. Those are resume builders when you go step. Ill like for instance. I'M IN THE COMMUNICATIONS field volunteer. That local news agent or newspaper volunteer at the PEO's off is if they allow Doing internship extreme. Gyp is you want to get into the medical so I'll volunteer at the Red Cross. Go take those kind of that experience in that you want to go to as a very important also is aligned with getting. Your education is self care. That's something that I alluded for so many years. Because I wasn't taught that I wasn't hot to take CARE OF MYSELF. I will talk to take your other equal in so I didn't even know how that looked or how to do. It is so taking care of myself with something that I had to learn along the way you can be a great mobs. You Great White. You could be a great husband or grace thousand general but you can still take care of yourself. You can do that to taking care of yourself not take away from other people and this is something that I hadn't learned the hard way I wasn't taking care of myself every I had to everyone else and ultimately I lost myself and I had I had no sense of self worth is so aiming that back or keeping it is something that's very important to your transition back into the workforce acting to Education absolutely awesome. I love that and I've loved learning about your experience because what a great story you have when agree timeline that you have an and I love that year disagreed example to military spouses overall. Is someone who has come through a lot of different struggles personally and achieve so tell us one more thing. I'm GonNa ask you is. What are some things that you're working on right now? And and how can people get in contact with you so some of the things? I work on Working on right now is I'm in the process a riding my children's but and I actually My daughter is an artist. She's seven years old and she's won a lot of awards for her illustrations. So I am actually going to ask her to illustrate my book for me is out at in. It's about a little girl who was homeless but wanted to achieve her dreams Oh I super excited about that In I just love to incorporate my children in things that I'm doing. I operate them cheering. I'd probably teach them to stay with the world. Health and world of is as my biggest thing so another time doing is I advocate for people in need for homeless people Through I companies Project we pass out products in basic care items to people in need In so we've been working with a lot of different Of organizations out there and so the community and just to you know empower those communities to not only help homeless people or the people in need but to also empower them so that they can help yourselves in futures itself as a manner as another project. I'm working on outside of me being a brighter. Which is a real job. Absolutely actually add when you spoke about being. I drink. I actually had I had an experience. Were I talked to in an Employment Assistance Office? And we were talking about She helps people find POPs in so I just went in there and I was just having small talk conversation with him and he's like I can help you get into education. You want a D- WanNa do for a living outside. I WanNa be a writer. He's like yeah. That's not a career field only lousy everything is item. You wanted to buy every magazine. Written Oregon. Every Book IRA and all the articles I rented like. Oh that's interesting around was kind of. It was kind of interesting to hear how people who get work. Assistance could give guidance For people of China Obtain Employment View. Certain Don's is Al's pretty interesting to me but that's actually what I do. I'm actually a writer by trade. Might have a basket communication and that is what I do. I love it. Yeah absolutely I. I feel like we've run into maybe similar people in life because I yeah and I think that that is a good fair word of warning when you're out there working with different service providers is that they're not great at or that they have. They don't have good intentions. But you know I was remember. We talked about those those dream. Crushers out there. Some people will guide you based on their own internal limitations for themselves. I think that's always important to step back. And acknowledge that maybe that person is limited in their own scope of what it is they think is possible and not Judge Them. Not yet on them. Then you just go okay but clearly being a writer is a possible thing because Marlin writer and I love that eventually. I will be a legit writer for now. I'll keep working on the other things. I'm working on and keep writing on the side but anyway well thank you so much for all of that graded by things for sharing your story. Most of all And I am trying to end more episodes of the podcast with asking people what they are grateful for today. So what is the thing that you're grateful for today so today as I spoke earlier I live in Fort Drum New York and so today I am grateful for the sunshine today. People don't it son very often. There's usually an overcast rain. Snow or all three cell today have sunshine. I am absolutely over the moon about it. I'm so happy you changes your mood is through such changes your life and I am so happy and I'm still in the sunshine today. I love it. That's a great thing to be thankful for. I'm over in the Pacific northwest still for a few more weeks and Yeah that sunshine is everything. It's like a million dollars being thrown at my front door. I love it eleven so thanks for that Marlin. Thanks for taking the time today awesome. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of so and becoming Marla. I love having you on the show. Now that I'm in Virginia and no longer in Washington state I missing the Pacific Ocean in longing for warm. I hope you are staying. Warm happy healthy and grateful wherever you're listening from and are as inspired as I was marlins energy and her perseverance. I'd love to know what your green light moment was for yourself. You decided it was time to start thinking about getting back to work if you download the APP Flick. Chat for PODCASTS. Look for someone becoming an. Let's have a conversation about it there. You can find out more about me and the show at so and becoming dot com. I look forward to sharing another conversation with you next week. When I'll be talking money with Lisa Langford? I'll see you next Tuesday on zone becoming bye for now

writer Denver Iraq Marla Teesta army US Teesta Jamie Musk Michelle Berry Franco Army army West Coast Marlin facebook baseball AGFA Fort Drum New York Lisa Langford marlins Education Center on Poles
AWTR Show #710: Coping with Anxiety during Milspouse Transitions

Army Wife Talk Radio

52:42 min | 1 year ago

AWTR Show #710: Coping with Anxiety during Milspouse Transitions

"ATTENTION ARMY ARMY WIVES FALL in. You've come to the right place. Talkradio is the leading and longest podcasts. Of its kind providing the latest reports stories interviews and more power. You on your military sells for your in your home Welcome to the latest edition of our new is talk radio your source for military life empowerment. It is a privilege to bring you weekly weekly resources to engage. Educate and encourage you in your military life journey. I'm your host. Aws Special Projects Coordinator Mandy Gibson. This is shown show number seven hundred ten and we are excited. That you're joining US tonight. I'm your host for this podcast episode. Eight of you in Virtual Administrator Mackenzie Cameron Tonight Mandy and talking with Ginger Harrington so stay with us as we chat with Ginger about being an author of the wife of a retired Marine speaker and innovative the ministry leader and mom to three adult. You can connect with ginger on facebook and twitter ginge Harrington and on instruments interests at Ginger Harrington also coming up in you just fifteen minutes or new sister Elena will be calling in with your niche now news. This podcast episode is brought to you by your age of the UN command team. Our team is made up volunteer. Who are stationed throughout the globe? The same is true for our volunteer. Teams that contribute to our aws blog and and we have to say we are so grateful for our amazing band of bloggers are volunteers. Give so much to our community and we want to say thank you. Oh that's right. Manny are abandoned bloggers share fantastic resources for just about everything military life. There's our way in fact this expanded lager spree is about how to handle the holiday blues expert Vulgar Tricia Wind Costea clinical health and wellness director at hope for the warriors shares. Ten tips to help us navigate the many different emotions that will come with the holiday season. So tricia writes we may remember family members friends and battle buddies who are no longer with us to celebrate the season although we feel the loss all all year long. Who's feeling the sadness and loss heightened during the holidays this can mean an increase in depression and anxiety symptoms if you experience these types of emotions during the holidays? Excuse the honest with yourself and take the necessary actions to reduce stress. TRICIA continue outlines and tangible steps to combat the holiday blues. I acknowledge your feelings. Don't don't ignore established degrees because it's okay to experience them second reach out to others if you're feeling isolated or alone. Their organizations that always need volunteers and social so that we support our communities certain. Be Realistic about your expectations. The holidays don't have to be perfect. And it's okay to change up some tradition and ritual thing be this takes takes the pressure off of you and others freed alternate steps to help the holiday. Please visit Trish encouraging blog at. WWW DOT army network dot com forward slash aws. You in dash blog. You can also find more of our empowering submissions from other. Aws Band of bloggers members. So attritional dog is really perfectly timed. the holiday season is a joyous time of year but it can also be bad time and we hear. Aws want to encourage you if you're facing a hard season and your current military spouse journey one of the most challenging aspects of military attorney life is pcs name and often we experienced loss during those transition. be saying goodbye to your friends. Community homer duty station and that we've just really in love with the winter exodus. PCS is in full. Swing in so armee network has our post with the most series aries to help alleviate some of that stress that can come with the pcs if you need insight into how to prepare for a specific post this blog series will help CBS prepared as possible for wherever the army send you so tonight. We're featuring Fort Drum New York the Tenth Mountain Division Fort Court Dramas an outdoors lovers paradise with hunting fishing and hiking. It fish wages about thirty miles from Canada with the Great Lakes to the West and the ad are not to the east based in New York City. Just over five hours away so the closest city is Syracuse which is eighty four miles away the closest major city. There are four seasons in New York but it feels like to do because the winters are so long and harsh inmates. There's a timber. The average high is sixty nine degree. December through March the average height is below thirty. Seven degrees Samantha. I know you've been stationed at Fort Drum so tell us a little bit about that duty station based on your personal experience. Oh Yeah we actually Just came from guess not just just spent a year now but we were at a work drum for two and a half years and They are not kidding when they say it feels like only two season because the winters are very very very long and harsh But I will say that it is absolutely beautiful The if you like cold weather it is quite the Duty Station to be out. There are so many different areas that you can go to Just within a weekend the ADIRONDACKS are beautiful. There's a lot of different ski lodges That you can go to around town it is just really really beautiful and let me tell you the falls. There are perfect Beautiful beautiful beautiful. Changing an of the leaves So many cool like apple orchards and Pumpkin Patches. It is is just really really pretty. I mean it is gorgeous and the community there is really awesome to we've We enjoyed our time there. However we We were glad to be away from cold weather an untoward weather. These past This past winter we news In October right before the really cold weather hit and and Now we're in second winter without that so Glad to be away from Fort Drum but it is a beautiful place only only reason to be glad is just because we are not holding people but it is gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous Let's see okay so one one of the things were dramas. Most well-known for of course is the snow And I sure did a lot of snow scooping when I was there I mean just getting it was really my husband but snow. Isn't the only scoop coop. This week carousel latest from. AWS Social Media Scoop this week. We hosted graphics. That said dear diamonds. We all know who is really a girl's best. Best friend sincerely chocolate. It's definitely a time of year for chocolate. I love chocolate Myself All the all the Times there for sure yeah but You know what about you. Are you someone who loves chocolate. A- as much as we do we'd love to hear your thoughts to visit. Our facebook page is China. And so let's check in with this week's resource recon the time the show where we share resources you can use this military life beyond. Aws this show kids resources. Christmas undulation trees please for troops so they provide free farm grown Christmas trees United States Armed Forces members in all branches military and their families. Their donations sponsorships sponsorships grants and the work of many volunteers. According to their website Christmas tree growers have been providing free trees family for years and two thousand five that rex contacted the Christmas spirit. Asian the five. Oh One C.. Three charitable branch of the National Christmas Tree Association and wanted to be involved in the foundation's mission so together. The two organizations expanded the idea of providing Christmas trees. Military families intrigued troops born since by more than two hundred twenty. Five thousand three hundred hundred nineteen three farm grown Christmas trees have been given to troops and military families in the United States and overseas surgeries troops. Thousands of trees are donated by American farm families and the public in delivers the trees. Tim More than seventy military bases in the US and overseas sex with lost more than eight hundred thousand ground Owned Miles for the trees for troops program. So if you're interested in getting involved in this program you can visit their website to find out what locations or participating in the troops for troop weekend. That's coming up December sixth through eighth and you can go to treats for troops dot org slash and get involved all all right and now it's time for a short commercial break up. Nuts is our new six. Julian bringing us. You need to know news stay tuned. We'll be right back Missing within we like to indulge in more of army wife Talk Radio head over to army wife Network Dot Com for the full archive download all previous episodes. It'd be ideal or the pod Catcher of your choice your interactive empowerment. FOUR ARMY WI FI army wi you can use Headline time for your Army Radio. Live News Welcome back listeners. We have our views six showing on the line bringing us your need to know news. Hey feeling what do you have for us this week week. Hi Mandy. Here's this week's top stories. Gold Star family members will soon be eligible to apply for a one year paid congressional Congressional Fellow Position Military Dot Com reported on the bills named in memory of Argenta. Army Sergeant. First Class Sean Cooley and specialist Christopher Horton the fellowship in Washington. DC or in the district office of a representative or delegate in the House of Representatives. Zoe lofgren a a Democrat from California. said it will allow Gold Star families to participate in and learn about the democracy their loved one gave the ultimate sacrifice advice to protect learn more at military dot com the oldest known marine who served in the World War Two battle. Eugene has died John Moon of mccomb Illinois was one hundred and three he served in the Fifth Marine Division and was awarded the Purple Heart read read more about Mr Moon at WGN TV DOT COM. Are you sending a package overseas. We are down to the wire. So you're for delivery. By December twenty fifth United States. Postal Service has a list of those deadlines and most fall between December ninth and the eleventh visit. USPS PS DOT com for specific details in an ongoing struggle to improve military housing. The Air Force recently put a privatized housing landlord landlord that manages two thirds of the Air Force housing unnoticed. The Air Force Times reported by the end of the year fell for beating communities officials. Officials must submit a comprehensive improvement plan. John W Henderson Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Installations Environment and Energy said had. These failures are unacceptable and has seriously eroded confidence by senior air force leadership and Balfour Beatty's ability to provide military families families with safe quality housing. Read more at Air. Force Times Dot Com as Mackenzie just mentioned in our resource recon segment trees for troops happening this upcoming weekend. According to the Christmas Spirit Foundation the trees will be available to military families this weekend December sixth seventh and eighth each installation sets their own eligibility requirements. Visit your local. MWR website or contact your family program. I'm for more event. Details learn more about the program at trees for troops dot Org and continuing in the Christmas spirit and eight year year. Old Boy in Maryland has raised over. Fifty thousand dollars for Veterans Tyler. Stalling was four years old when he began collecting items for veterans who were homeless. Good Morning. America reported that tyler initially wanted to build houses for the purchasing supplies from harbor store but his mother instead contacted governor owner Larry Hogan who gave the boy a one hundred dollar grant to put to good use. Tyler changed his goal to provide Chiro bags to veterans. Who are homeless? The bags include toiletries snacks clothing. And bedding you can donate to Tyler's mission by visiting go fund me Dot Com and searching for help give back to veterans find links to all of the stories we share an army wife network dot com this is your eight of U. N. new six correspondent Joelene mcnutt signing out thing we listeners. It's a joy to bring resources and information and keep you in the note. We'll meet this episode guests right after a short commercial break. You may not think of flu as serious disease but complications can lead to severe severe illness hospitalization and even death the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend. Everyone six months and older get a flu vaccine every year. Uh Vaccines are available at doctor's offices pharmacies and local health departments protect yourself and your loved ones this flu season. Get A flu. Shot shot today learn more at CDC DOT GOV slash fights. Lou this is Susan Miller bringing you a moving moving minute from just move de-stress your holiday season get your shopping done early or do it online and go ahead and wrap those gifts now. Prepare or cook anything that can be made and kept frozen beforehand. Find a way to help others. It may help you put your own challenges in perspective. Enjoy the holiday festivities catch a holiday play or a holiday movie. We focus on the people who matter the most. They'll remember the time you spent with them and don't worry about making things. Thanks perfect but pick the most meaningful ways to celebrate happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas from just moved service to offer our listeners. Reach thousands of military families worldwide via army wife network network DOT COM has a limited number sponsorship opportunities in the army wife network dot com slash sponsorship her ship or email us info army wife network dot com for details Welcome back to talk radio tonight. Our guest feel award finalist Ginger Harrington and Ginger is also the author of holy in the moment simple ways to love God and enjoy your life a founding member of planning routes strength strength to thrive in military life Ginger X. Publishing for the nonprofit ministry creating Bible Studies and devotional for women in the military community ginger right at Ginger Harrington Dot com implanting groups dot net and interviewed on TV radio podcasts as as well as featured at bridges. TV More to life guides military blogs light workers encourage faith and fitness magazine and others represented by Rachel Gardner of books and such literacy agency. Ginger lives in northern Virginia. Welcome to the this. Show Ginger. Ginger are you there with that. Hey there can you hear me we can hear you know Ginger Eh Sorry about that. My Mute was working really well. That's okay if you knew how many times I've have done that you would probably well. It's great to be with you guys tonight. Thanks for having me well. We are glad that you're your here. So let's jump in and get to know you and your miss it mission as a male spouse So tell us what have been some of the highlights of your experience variant with military life Let me count. How long do you have? You know. Some of my favorite things about military military life for sure have been the people that I have met and twenty four years of military life. We have made some amazing friends and Smet a wide variety of people who are memorable helpful engaging and inspiring amazing how quickly the military family members. You make isn't it this radius family it do you know and this is the time of year where I think about that so often times when I start to pull out our Christmas card and our Christmas card list is. It's so long and my kids. Look at that and go you guys have so many browns and I think back to you know days in junior high when you know having a ton our friends was you know Measure of popularity but you know having a lot of friends in military life just means you have moved a lot and so you know I think you can kinda measure your years in military life by the length of your Christmas card left list. That is A statement I mean did you won't what has been the best advice that You received for staying core and and they'll staus life. I think probably one of the best ones was one of the first pieces of of advice that I got when I was a brand new military spouse trying to figure out which way was up and all of that and a young lady told me we you know wherever you go no no matter how long you're there make every house a home and you know I didn't really grasp the significance skins of that in our first duty station but two or three duty stations in. I just saw the wisdom of that whether you're someplace six weeks six months or six years dig it subtle in and make your house a home. And that's something I I've really got to get on that because I'll tell you I'm win. It's a short little. You know. Few months moves that we might be doing really bad about leaving the stuff from the boxes. So I've got to get better about that but I like that advice like it What would you tell your younger self about navigating the highs and lows of military life? The first thing I would say to my younger self is stop worrying so so much for sure I know I know but I think about all of the things that I worried about out in military life. I worried about where we were going to live. And where my kid's GONNA settle in and we're my kid's GonNa Finish school or were they gonNa make friends or who is going to be our doctor or you know the list could be a mile long you name it. I worried about about it and I would've told myself to settle down and not worry so much for sure. That's great advice. I feel like you're speaking directly to me here though. No no I'm I'm I'm rapidly taking notes. Believe you me right so we know you've enjoyed the the experience of being in a military spouse but Tell us about some of the challenges that you face well started to touch on it when I talked about I would tell my younger self the chill out a little bit and not be so anxious for me. One of the greatest challenges of military life was the anxiety involved with transitions and moving and transitioning is a natural part of the operational racial tempo of military life. It is an inescapable reality of life in the military whether you're transitioning jobs or seasons of life or duty stations transition is going to be part of your experience but for me because of health issues that onset onset with a PCs That we're Hyper thyroid issues. That spiraled my thyroid. Read out of Control and precipitated a lot of anxiety with the move. That started a journey of anxiety with military transitions. Instead I'd love to say I got passed but it seemed to crop up every time that we move to and so I just got lots and lots of practice at navigating anxiety and overcoming it. And not letting it hoping back well to this to you because it is I can relate to is to get a lot of anxiety and I think we all do you probably to a certain extent but I do get a lot of anxiety as well when it comes to. I think the biggest thing is is that for me. Anyway it's like that earn unknown And then the ever so lovely changing that can happen. You know a moment's notice You you get settled on one thing and this is what's happening and then you get orders for something new Doing all this planning to just be ripped apart. You know so Thank you for sharing that. Because Gosh it sometimes you just feel like you're the only one appealing with it so You know so many times in our military experience I felt like some of the other spouses were given like issued with the initial kit that maybe their spouses got some sort of adjustment to change accelerator and they just seem to just whip through all the challenges like nobody's business and nothing seemed to get upset or ruffled and I just thought who are you at. How do you do that? Yeah I did not get that piece of equipment and I think that there are with transitions whether it's PC S.'s. is or new jobs or even just new seasons of life like when you become a parent in the military and things like that there are it is those unknowns tones it is those uncertainties that you really can spark a lot of worry or anxiousness and realizing that you're going to get to the other side of it and it's a process really I think is so helpful. Awful to not get so caught up in the anxieties of today and finding Some supportive people that you can share with to Get support with is really really helpful as well but you know those uncertainties activities they do kind of knock us for a loop sometimes whether or not we show it or not I think there's cert there's a certain art and A lot a lot of faith that goes into living settled in a transitory life who that is true. That is very very true. Very true. I'm trying trying to master as best as I can. I think we can. I will say that Right and and that's what we're all doing. We're all doing the best if we can. That's right that's right Can you share with us. Just some of the strategies that you learn to cope with anxiety. Eighty that you've experienced entrance of military life absolutely Hopefully these will be helpful for folks but one of the most important ones for me. You know we talked about the uncertainty of change. And when I have a Aroo of faith in me that is tapped into something Something and someone who is not going to change. It gives me a grounding for life and and for handling anxiety and for me that is faith in God and that has been such a source of strength for me being able to Read Scripture and the Bible and find specific versus that. Speak to what I'm dealing with at the time. That reminded me that God is faithful and present and working things together for good. Those are the kinds of things that take my eyes off the things that I'm worried about in the moment and keep my eyes on God who is bigger an in control. It just reminds me that today is not the end of the story and I think that's one of the things that anxiety does to us is. It can be overwhelming. I mean with all the amount of detail uncertainty or things that are outside of our control and we need those reminders. That today isn't the the end of the story. And that God is bigger than anything that we face and that we can seek him and strengthen him another thing that has has been really helpful for me and I talked about that just a second ago is building relationships with people positive people who can encourage and support you when you're feeling weak when you're feeling anxious and I know that Most of the places that we've moved I've been able to meet someone fairly really quickly. who was able to be an encouraged or for being and in fact one time that time that I I was sick in the midst of a transition position the first person I met with someone who really became a round and was able to help navigate some of those medical cool challenges I was facing because she was actually a pharmacist and understood exactly what I was dealing with and so that was just a neat provision that God gave of an encouraging friend that was able to help family is so important in the military military our family moves with us? We start our our nuclear family. Our extended family doesn't go this bed. Nuclear family does and really doing our best to build strong and positive and engaging relationships and communicate with what their family is so helpful. You know to really talk about what you're feeling with your spouse to Not Give all the details to your kids foods but just had time to be able to say. Hey you know. Mom's feeling a little worried about something today and we're just going to work together and we're going to get get this done and we'll move forward and That's been helpful for me to not try to have A mask of everything's okay ain't nothing bothers me but to be able to to be real and honest about what I'm feeling without necessarily having to go into too much detail Those are some things that were helpful. Another thing that would be helpful for me is to play on some fun things on the calendar with moving and transitions and things like that. There are ten thousand things that have to be done and your to do list can be overwhelming and so having some planning planning some fun things in the midst of all the work to be done and in the midst of that season when you when you first duty station. What if you're not involved in anything you don't really know anyone and time your calendar gets kinda blank and so putting some fun things on the calendar whether they're simple simple things like checking out a new park or going to a movie but just something to look forward to helps break up the Tendency that we have to over focus on the things that we're worried about those are some really great pieces pieces of advice that you've given. I think you know just kind of touched back on on some of those. I think you know we forget sometimes to take that moment to stop and breathe and reflect and you know whether that be to you know spending your time you know with you. Know five and talking with Gods who you know obvious things to your calendar. I think you've pinpointed. Some really important aspects there that we have to take time to step away from all those things that make us worry and so hope that our listeners are taking notes like I am strategies and you know it just you know finding those people you know within your military community that you can rely on on you know still spending that time with your family and leaning on them but thank you very much for sharing Those personal strategies that have worked for. You do appreciate that You're so oh go ahead. Oh I was just GonNa say you're welcome. I hope it's helpful. Aw it well it is for me and I know that it will be for a lot of our listeners to so through your process us He's been through some significant struggles with anxiety. What have you learned through the process of that? That's a great question. I've learned a lot of things. One I at the most important thing that I have learned is that God is faithful. Paul no matter what I'm feeling God is faithful and I've really learned that I have a tendency and I I think we all do have a tendency to define our faith and whether or not we're okay and whether or not Things are going to work out based on how we're feeling in the moment and our feelings their responses to how were you know reacting and interpreting things in the moment and they're not reality I might feel sad about something or I might feel anxious or happy about something but those are responses. What's is there not truths and so being able to recognize that? Hey how I'm feeling today. I'm not gonNa feel that way later. I might feel that way later at times. But that's who I am. It doesn't define me it doesn't dictate my circumstances beezer emotions and focusing on what's true and what's what's good and what is faithful and things like that. That really helps pull me out of the anxiousness or helps me realize. Hey this is how I'm feeling right now and it's going to pass and when I remember that that's very encouraging because for me when you really get caught in an anxiety cycle your emotions trigger negative thinking and your negative thinking triggers more more emotions and so you get caught in this downward spiral and it can really impact to in some physical ways as well lizzy emotional ways. Get impact your decision making whenever I'm feeling anxious it's really hard to make decisions and things like that so realizing in the moment. Hey I'm feeling anxious right now. This isn't the best time for me to make a major decision. And then you know if I have the opportunity to not have to to make a major decision. When I'm feeling anxious I try to wait till the next day or get some added input you know look beyond myself Alf rather than making decisions out of my emotions and that's something that that has been really practical really powerful to focus on what's true Has Been something that's been really helpful and then just to realize it's not the end of the world. If I'm feeling anxious right now this is GonNa pass pass and that has been really helpful as well more great advice I appreciate you. You being vulnerable I knew that there are several people in our community is military spouses suffer with anxiety. And you know sometimes it can be You know just kind of shown as a not really a disgrace but just something that we should high and hides is behind And so I appreciate you again. Sharing that vulnerability with our listeners. Well you know anxiety. He has a lot of sources. And sometimes like for me anxiousness. I could have a A little leaning towards being a little bit anxious just before I struggled with graves. Disease the hyper thyroid function that I had but once my hormonal component got on board. You Know I. It was a a definitely a roller coaster. Ride And anxiety was the front car of that roller coaster for me a and I'm not still suffering with that by any means right. You know in the years that have passed. But there's something about anxiety Worry and some of the other related issues that we can experience depression things like that they can you know kind of wire and trigger with certain experiences and realizing that. Hey I'm moving. I'm coming into a transition in period. I'm going to be a little more vulnerable to this particular challenge during this season and making steps ahead of time to prepare here for that and realizing that it's one it's not the end of the world and I'M GONNA be able to move forward and my attitude dude realizing that our attitude and what we choose to think about. What would choose to embrace is true? Makes a powerful powerful difference and if I allow my emotions to become. What's true for me then? My emotions are going to be that much more overwhelming. And so you're a huge part of emotional. Health is being able to experience our emotions and name them but not get stuck in them not over dwell on them but to move through and keep our eyes on what is true very good very good love. It ginger. We do need to take just a real quick break but when we come back we love free. Eighty to chat with us about your professional writing and speaking earning sure. That'd be fun awesome. We'll be right back with more army wife talk radio in just a moment. Hi I'm Stephanie. Abdullah and on behalf of the Army Surgeon General. This is your army medicine. The as healthy as you can be health minute this month. We're talking about the flu. The fluids they contagious respiratory illness caused by the influenza virus. Common symptoms of the flu include fever chills. Cough sore throat muscle aches and fatigue. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shouldn't estimates that approximately two hundred thousand people. A year are hospitalized for influenza in the US and deaths from influenza can range from three thousand into forty nine thousand per year the best way to prevent the flu is the flu vaccine. Everyone over the age of six months should be fascinated against the influenza lewin's of virus. Make sure you're always covering your mouth when you call or sneeze wash your hands frequently and most importantly get a flu vaccine gene because the influenza virus can spread before you even though you're getting vaccinated doesn't just protect you it also protects everyone else for more information. The formation visit the Army Public Health Center online army medicine. One team one purpose. Conserving the fighting strength. Since seventeen seventy five UH UH MILITARY INFORMATION NETWORK DOT COM offers military family news and Resources and social media and much much more army army wife Network Dot Com your interactive for Army Wide Right listeners we have Ginger Harrington guest and we're talking about your wife is a military spouse so hi ginger. How are you doing great? Good good okay. Your book was a sailor award. Finalist this year. So congratulations What is so much about me? I'm the main message of holy in the moment. Simple ways to love God and enjoy. Your life is making intentional choices. Moment by moment to rely on Christ on the resources of Christ Choose Holiness to choose what is good in the moment omit to choose what is hold in the moment and enjoy life in the moment. Okay all right. I love that making intentional choices. Moment the moment that's beautiful okay so How much are you? Military Story is actually in the book quite a bit of it actually. It's not a military book per per se but the opening story really digs into the challenge of dealing with anxiety during a move. When when I had an onset of grave's disease that we talked about earlier and how God used that experience to teach me that believing God is the choice that we make moment to moment and it's not dependent on how we've gotta look beyond our feelings that our feelings don't define our faith and that was the beginning Ed spiritual journey that was has been very powerful and very very practical? So talk about that. There's Talk about parenting parenting in the military building friendships in the military. I talk about retirement dealing with that transition with Mil Retiring retiring from military life worrying about the impact of moving on our kids In military life so and the challenge of working in military life. I talk about that a little bit in the work chapter of that for me as a speaker at an author it it was challenging to feel like you had to start over every place that you went and I know military spouses often struggle with that it and it's a part of military life. Yes ma'am I not my first duty station outside of Texas so I completely understand that. It's it's definitely a change. Yes yes ma'am. You've been blogging for ten years. What's the focus of your website like my website is it's a it's a Christian website? It is focused on faith in God and A applying applying big biblical truth to your life. And so there's just a lot of interesting spiritual encouragement is is the focus. Okay all right. I love that a futile right so for some folks. Public speaking is a great fear. But you seem to really love it so as a professional speaker week. Or what are your favorite things about speaking to women. I've loved meeting women. I love Being face to face and eyeball to eyeball with the Group of women and being able to to share a message that has a practical impact for daily life and for overcoming challenges that we all face and and just to be able to encourage equip and empower women has been a huge focus of my life. mentoring during younger women encouraging them to try new things and to invest in their lives as wives and MOMS and and For those that are professionals professional arenas and things like that. That's been a just a real joy for me. Nuts amazing has it always go out for you. Have you always been really big on mentoring. I have When I was first married I had the opportunity to have have a a really wonderful mentor and I when I think back to the the things that have really helped me as a wife and as a mom things that have helped me in my career and things like that almost all of it or things that I have learned from other women women who took the time and had the Care and concern to share things with me to help me grow in learn and so it is a joy to be able to give that back by encouraging others. Whether it's through speaking or writing or books or meeting for Coffee Muslim credible I love it. Okay so You also our founding member and the coordinator of publishing for Planting Rude uh-huh strike to thrive in military life. Could you tell us more about the ministry and the resources from sending roots publishing. I would love to play any roots. Kazman it has been a joy to work with this organization and planning routes you can find people can find us at planning. Routes Dot net don't and we are an organization a nonprofit organization by military women for Military Women Women in military community whether they're women in in uniform spouses wives MOMS reserves veterans and we encourage courage and equip women to grow in faith so that they can can be all that they are called to be by God that they can bloom and blossom where ever military sends them okay so it's really an inclusive nonprofit. I like you said five military women for military women. That's a very good describe it so I'll yes go to learn. I'm sorry we're looking to go to learn more about your empowering millsap journey well With planting eighteen routes people can find us at planning routes dot net. They can find us on facebook as planting roots and on Instagram may can We've got that we've been able to. We've begun publishing books in the last two years and so we actually have four books out so three of those books are available on Amazon. We have A Bible study called flourish wherever the military since you that we put out this last year by Melissa Hicks The previous year we did a Bible study called beyond brave faith to stand in military life by Andrea plot. Ner We have a devotional called free to be brave moments with God for military life and then we've also been able to partner with the American Bible Society and do a Bible Boot Camp for Military Carrie women and that is a Introductory overview of the Bible Bible study. That is free for women in the military community and available for order by chaplains and Things like that okay. So can and we just a little bit more about the Bible Studies. That sounds really interesting and something that I might want to start doing as well The last one. Yeah if you don't mind sure Bible boot camp for military women. We the partnership project that we did with the American Bible Society. It's an overview of the different kinds of books in the Bible with with an introduction to the different genres in the Bible and just a a good overview overview and it's within the framework of speaking to a young woman who is in the military community particularly active duty. The target audience is ages ages. Twenty four to thirty five and It is a great resource for someone who is not experienced and reading the Bible and just kind kinda wants to understand what the Bible might have to say to their experience and I love the fact that the language and some of the examples. Listen `lustration speak to active duty life. So that is a really neat resource available through the American Bible Society and then Our most recent study flourish wherever the military sends you is a Six Week Bible study on ninety two and it really speaks to some things that can help us flourish. Wherever God sends us and and It's a practical study and it can be done by someone who is new to scripture or some or a group or an individual. Who's done a lot of Bible study? Okay all right the things you so much answered pretty much most of my questions that I had about it. That's that's beautiful. I love it the especially the forest wherever the military sends you something that I've been trying to do just kind of flourish instead of getting down about it so I appreciate you talking about it. Thank you very much absolutely and then You know in terms of holy in the moment hole in the moment is available. Where books are sold Amazon Amazon Books a million Barnes and Noble Walmart. I never thought I'd have a product on Walmart. uh-huh going ball mark So and then folks can also Read more from me Ginger Harrington Dot Com. Okay thank you so much. You're still welcome ginger. We we just want to say again. Thank you so much for sharing and joining us this evening and You've shared such encouraging information for military military spouses. So thank you so much. We'll thank you so much for having me and you guys take care. Thank you thank you. Ma'am all right listeners. Thank you for tuning into this episode of Army Wife. Talk Radio you can join us. That's next week. Monday December nine two thousand eighteen for our extra special holiday episode featuring Sergeant Renee Burnett from the six streams soldiers the most followed military music group in the world. In the meantime join us that Fahmy Wife Network Dot com to stay connected to a number of interactive and empowering resources for your military journey we also invite you just tried at this podcast. Insure it with your networks you can receive email empowerment. VR newsletter the State Rep the SAT EP which publishes every other Tuesday connect with us on social media outlets such as facebook twitter pinterest instagram and by following at army wife network engage educate. Encourage A W win is your source for military life empowerment. This is is your Wifi Network Command team signing out. Thank you for tuning into army wife. Talk Radio the views and opinions expressed in our show. Personal Army Wife Talk. Radio is in no way affiliated with the Department of Defense or any other brands armed services Inclusion in our show does not reflect endorsement by the dod any local government agencies until the next episode. Over to army wife network working in Miami

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Best of 2019: The Spokane Serial Killer Pt. 1: Robert Lee Yates Jr.

Serial Killers

43:28 min | 11 months ago

Best of 2019: The Spokane Serial Killer Pt. 1: Robert Lee Yates Jr.

"This episode is brought to you by the new movie. The turning of thrilling horror from the writers the conjuring starring thin Wolfhard from stranger things. Don't miss the turning in theaters everywhere. January twenty fourth due to the graphic nature of these killers crimes listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of murder and assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen friends and neighbors knew Robert Lee. Yates as an average rich show. He was quiet and unassuming to some acquaintances in his native spokane Washington. Yates was so unremarkable that they didn't remember him at all. Yates was a decorated army helicopter. Pilot he was a father to five children. He enjoyed working with his cars which included his beloved white corvette. I bet he lived a quiet unassuming life or so. Everyone thought it soon became clear that despite Roberts mild mannered nature he had a sinister side from nineteen seventy five until nineteen ninety eight. He murdered at least seventeen people around Washington state. Soon this unassuming average Joe became spokane's most notorious resident. Hi I'm Greg Paulson. And this is serial killers on the PODCAST network every Monday. We dive into the minds and madness of serial killers today. We're going to take a deep dive into the life of Robert Lee Gates a convicted murderer who killed sixteen gene women and one man in spokane Washington. I'm here with my co host than Richardson. Hi everyone at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. But it's no Howard doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoy today's episode bestowed the best way to help us to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening it really does help us? We also have merch head to podcast. Dot Dot com slash merch for more information Robert Lee. Yates was a former prison guard army veteran and father of five five children but he harbored a more vicious side during the ten year period between nineteen eighty eight and nineteen ninety eight. Yates murdered at least fifteen sex workers in spokane. He picked up the women in His van had sex with them and shot them in the head. In two thousand forty eight year old gates was charged with thirteen counts of murder and received a sentence of four hundred and eight years in jail in two thousand two. He was convicted of two additional murders. I was sentenced to death by lethal injection after two thousand eighteen Washington State Supreme Court ruling. The death penalty was abolished in the state that his the sentence was commuted to life in prison. In this week's episode we'll examine Robert's early life in Oak Harbor Washington as well as his early victims next week. We'll discuss the rest of his spokane victims. His arrest and murder trials before Robert was even born. Murder was part of his his family's history in Nineteen forty-five Roberts Father Robert Senior lived a seemingly. Quiet life in Van Buren Tennessee with his parents. fifty-three-year-old Novella Johnson. Yates and fifty five year old. John Taylor Yates. John worked as a farmer. And as such wasn't home for long stretches of time this put most of the domestic and child rearing pressures on novella who was raising their children collect tober twelfth nineteen forty five. Robert Senior was a young boy sleeping in his upstairs bedroom. He awoke to loud noises downstairs and went to investigate. Robert Senior saw his his father lying on the floor of a bedroom bleeding from his head. Novella sat calmly and quietly in another room as if nothing had happened but something did did clearly transpired between the couple. Novella had killed John with a double edged. Axe Medical examiners found that John Yates had had four wounds on his head and face including one that spanned the entire right side of his head and penetrated the brain. John was taken to the hospital and died eight of his injuries six days later on October. Eighteenth nineteen forty-five it's unknown. What prompted Novella to kill her husband that night police arrested Novella Vella and charged her with felonious assault? She was released from Warren County jail on a three thousand dollar bond. There are no records to show whether or not she was convicted of the murder. She was sent to a mental hospital for unknown and unrecorded reasons where she remained for seven years. Meanwhile Little Roberts senior grew up and married a woman named Anna may seven years after his grandmother killed his grandfather. Robert Gates Junior was born on May twenty seventh one thousand nine hundred fifty two in Oak Harbor Washington. He was the second child to Robert. Senior and animates. Yates was a quiet child. well-mannered mannered well behaved and well. Meaning he didn't make any trouble in Oak Harbor. A town on Washington's would be island with striking views of the Olympic mountains in the Pacific Gauchan Roberts senior was a religious man and a very involved member of the seventh day adventist church seventh day. Adventists is a form of Protestant Justin Christianity that believes in the forthcoming return of Jesus Christ to Earth. Unlike most Christian denominations seventh day adventists observed the Sabbath on Saturdays. They avoid meat drugs and alcohol Robert. Seniors Local Church congregation was made up of about one hundred people. Pe- took his participation seriously. He wanted to pass along his values to his son. Robert Junior grew up with a close bond to his father. His Father Coached Little League Baseball. All Team Robert Junior was specifically interested in pitching. They attended church together and Roberts sang in the church choir. They hunted deer. Went fishing and and hike together. Often Roberts close friend Al Ghamdi said there was a lot of respect in that family. They were the type of people you'd want as your neighbor from the outside side young Robert Lee. Yates was a picture perfect kid but despite this there was a dark stain on Robert's childhood at age six Robert Lived next door to a family with an eleven year old son. It's unclear if the eleven year old and Robert were friends but either way the eleven year old allegedly sexually abused Robert at age six. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology. Here just to remind her. She's not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist. But she has a lot of research for the show. Thanks Greg according to Dr Suzanne Babble. MFT thirty five percent of children. who were sexually abused? Grow up to sexually abuse other victims of sexual abuse are also much more likely to develop unusual or hyper sexual behavior and repeat the pattern of abuse in some way as we will see the sexual nature of Robert Gates is crimes are consistent with this behavior and could give us some insight on what motivated him to murder. Has He grew up. Roberts Neighbors Macabre knew him as a hard working young man he frequently mowed lawns around the neighborhood. Pumped gas at the local gas station and unharvested peas with a farmer to earn one dollar. An eight cents an hour but according to some sources Robert had a dark side even during childhood at one point he began hurting and torturing innocent animals at age eleven. Robert may have set fire to a house but he was not formally charged or accused of the arson in high school. Robert was a pitcher for the. Oh carber wildcats varsity baseball team. His former teammate Harry. Ferrier remembered Robert Dozen Average Joe saying he could throw a fastball with precision. He was kind of quiet a few of his. Oh carber high. School classmates and teachers remembered numbered Robert as a quiet student who turned in the statements on time. Robert also played football briefly but quit during his sophomore year in nineteen sixty eight. He had a steady girlfriend for most of high school. He wasn't just an athlete. Robert was also part of the school choir and talented writer. His classmates recall call today when he read a sonnet to his English class allowed. They thought it was a work written by Shakespeare but Robert had written the sonnet himself during his senior year in nineteen seventy eighteen year old. Robert's girlfriend moved away so he skipped the oak harbor homecoming dance instead. He invited close friend. Al Godley over to his home to play Canasta. A Card Game Godley remembered quote. He didn't smoke and he didn't drink. We didn't give into peer pressure. That wasn't our the thing. Our thing was hunting and fishing and hiking and quote Robert and Gaudy bonded over their common career aspirations. They wanted to become doctors. Turn Biologists or Park Rangers together. They went on a sixteen hour backpacking trip with the goal of catching twenty inch trout. The fish was famous for living in an isolated Lake Washington cascade mountains in addition to wanting to catch the trout Robert was fascinated by eagles and birds flying overhead in the mountains and dreamed of flying himself after graduation robbing God. He attended Skagit Valley Community College together while there he began again dating an eighteen year old classmate named Shirley Neil under he graduated with an associate of Arts degree in general studies in Nineteen Seventy Two at age twenty. Any Robert and neulander got married on August. Twenty seventh one thousand nine hundred seventy two and moved to the city of college place together to attend Walla Walla College. Robert chose that specific school because it was run by seventh day adventists at Walla Walla. He pursued pre med studies. But Robert's first marriage bridge didn't last long in nineteen seventy four Shirley moved out of their college place. Apartment returned home and ask for divorce. Her reasons for leaving the marriage are unknown unknown but twenty two year old. Robert didn't contest to request and moved on quickly. Robert began dating Walla. Walla college classmate. Linda brewer grew almost immediately after his split from Shirley Linda soon became pregnant in July. Nineteen seventy four. They got married in a small ceremony but but there was one problem. The marriage took place before his divorce to surely was finalized. Robert and Linda's marriage was considered invalid because he was still married. Read to someone else. But Linda didn't care. She was in love and for the time being. That was all that mattered. But about a month after their wedding roberts new pseudo. Pseudo bride began noticing that her husband had some odd habits. One day she found a whole he drilled in the attic when to realize the whole looked into their next door neighbor's apartment Robert had made the hole so we could watch the couple in the apartment. Next door had sex perturbed Linda left Robert but they quickly reconciled and resumed their relationship a month later. It's unclear if Robert continued his voyeurism in the attic. Shirley and Roberts divorce became final title in August. One thousand nine hundred seventy four a few months later in December nineteen seventy four. Linda gave birth to a daughter named Sasha. The birth of their first child filed motivated Robert to drop out of college and find a steady job. Linda's father had worked as a corrections officer at the Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla for eighteen. The years and Robert decided to join him. He became a guard at the prison in July. Nineteen seventy five. Though this career would be short lived some sources say twenty three year old. Robert worked the prison for three to four months and others say he lasted up to six months before he quit either way. Linda's family were confused by Roberts sporadic behavior. It didn't help that. Robert gave no explanation for quitting in fact his his real motive for distancing himself from the area wouldn't be unearthed for over a decade. Robert had begun to kill. We'll learn of Roberts Aubert's first victims in a moment. This episode is brought to you by the new movie. The turning a thrilling horror from the writers of the conjuring and starring thin Wolfhard from stranger things in the turning. Kate takes the job as a nanny at a remote state. Caring for two disturbed children whose parents died under mysterious circumstances as she experiences unexplainable unexplainable and increasingly terrifying events. Kate soon realizes the children and the House are hiding a dark secret. Don't don't miss the turning in theaters. Everywhere January twenty fourth podcast listeners. Tis The season for gift giving and we have a special one for you. We released serial killers entire back catalogue of episodes besides free to listen to and best of all. They're already in your feed. That's a whopping eighty three classic episodes of serial killers. Ready for you to UNWRAP this holiday season. Whether you're reliving some of your favorite episodes or hearing them for the first time you can access all eighty three intriguing stories whenever you want. Just Find Lynam in your serial killers feed and enjoy plus you can still hear new episodes of serial killers every Monday. Check out more Parker shows on spotify by searching for podcast asked the spotify search bar or by going to spotify dot com slash. PODCAST now back to the story in one thousand nine hundred seventy five Robert Lee. Yates resigned from the Washington state penitentiary suddenly and without explanation but the real reason for his resignation in May have been related to his first two known murders on July thirteenth. Nineteen seventy five twenty one year old. Patrick Oliver and twenty two year old Susan. Savage were too close friends spending some time together and Mill Creek Park in Walla Walla. Oliver and savage had good reputations and the town they were both well liked the top students who came from good families. He had just returned from studying. In France. While savage recently graduated from Washington State University. The friends met up for a picnic in Mill Creek Park and even went for a swim in the lake. Mill Creek Park now known as Mill Creek Dam and Bennington Lake is a popular spot in Walla Walla. The sprawling six hundred acre recreational area has many hiking trails. According to The Washington trails association is also a popular spot for burgers orders bikers hunters runners and anglers that day. Robert Gates was in the same area for hunting target practice. It's not clear why. or or how but Robert Approached the couple sometime during his target practice activities. Walla Walla County. Sheriff Mike Humphries told the Walla Walla Union bulletin quote. I think he went up there to target shoot like he usually did. He came across these people and it happened and quote. He shot Oliver Three The Times. The last bullet was especially fatal. It pierced Oliver's heart Robert left savage with two fatal gunshot wounds one in her her shoulder and the other in her head behind her left ear. Robert took most of the clothes off. Savage's unconscious body and placed on top of Oliver in a sexual the Manor Robert covered both dead bodies with a pile of brush and army sleeping bag and a tire killers sometimes position. The bodies of their victims is in suggestive ways in order to send a message author and investigative historian. Peter vronsky elaborated on this in his book. Serial killers the method and madness nece of monsters. They're two ways. A killer could position a body post mortem the first is called staging when the killer arranges the corpses in a way meant confuse or mislead investigators. But if the victims are arranged in sexual or perverse manner that fulfills the killers on fantasies. It's called reposing. Considering that Oliver and savages bodies were hidden from plain sight. Robert may have been posing the corpses to act out a perverse fantasy for his own pleasure. Pleasure according to a two thousand four study in the Journal of Forensic Science killers who pose bodies WANNA shock anyone who discovers the bodies of the victims. The study also found that female victims tend to be the ones who are staged posed or left in some kind of unusual position. After being murdered posed. I bodies can indicate that sexual assault had occurred and that the manner of death was particularly hands on for the killer. Usually victims who are elected. An unusual position have been stabbed bound or bludgeoned. Robert Killed Savage at point blank range which also denotes a certain hands on closeness. The next day Oliver's brother Dan and his uncle Frank Munn noticed Oliver and savage didn't return home the night before Dan Mon- went out looking for them at Mill Creek. Dan recalled I saw funnier arrangement of debris near the edge of the creek by phone them. Dan In mon- drove straight to the local police station. The report what they had found in the park police investigated the murder and didn't turn up any leads at the time. It was also unclear if Oliver savage had been sexually the assaulted in the attack but Robert would never be a suspect in the murder. He would only be convicted of it after confessing to it over a decade later. In fact Robert was nowhere near the murders at the time. He had already distanced himself from the nearby prison and found new employment as a movie theater. Osha sometime later. In nineteen seventy five. He inland moved back to Roberts Hometown of Oak Harbor likely because his mother had been battling cancer shortly shortly after arrival. Twenty three year. Old Robert Lee. Yates took a job as a janitor at Whidbey Island hospital where his mother worked as the housekeeping supervisor in July nineteen seventy six Robert and Linda through a second wedding and were officially married. It took place in Oak Harbor with Robert's parents as witnesses. Linda officially took Roberts last name but she joined the family just as another. Yates passed on October. Ninth Nineteen Seventy six Robert's Robert's mother. Anna may died of cancer Robert and his friend. Godley were pallbearer center. Funeral Gaudy claimed that the death didn't affect Robert too much because Robert Anatomy didn't have a close relationship. He told the Seattle Times quote. Boys Aren't attached to their mothers. Like girls are. It doesn't throw us over the edge and unquote sometime in nineteen seventy seven. Robert became a father again when Linda gave birth to their second child Sonya on October fourth. Nineteen seventy seventy seven. Robert enlisted in the US army at age twenty five. He was older than the other recruits but proceeded to train basis in Missouri Texas and Massachusetts Sousse Hits in Nineteen Eighty Twenty eight year. Old Robert was chosen to train as an army pilot fulfilling his childhood dream of flying in order to become an army pilot. Individuals are selected for special training called Warrant Officer Candidate School Roberts Training for this took place at Fort Rucker Alabama. The army's aviation. Va Shin Center in July nineteen eighty before he was allowed to fly planes. He started his training with helicopters. Robert became a highly skilled helicopter pilot. His colleagues called him an excellent pilot. Knowledgeable and safety conscious from nineteen eighty until nineteen. eighty-four Robert was stationed in Hanau Germany erminie located about fifteen miles from Frankfurt. Linda and his daughters remained in Washington. But Robert visited the family while on. Leave during what Roberts. BIRT's trips home. Robert and Linda expanded their family during this time. Linda gave birth to two more children their third daughter amber in nineteen eighty and their our fourth daughter. Michelle who was born in Nineteen eighty-four. The Gates family now had four daughters. Sasha Amber Sonia and Michelle but but despite their large family Robert and Linda seemed happy to keep their lives separate. She raised their daughters while Robert served in the military. He rarely mentioned his wife to his army colleagues and many didn't even know he was married even when he was back in the states. Robert and Linda spent time apart in one thousand nine hundred four thirty two year old. Robert became an instructor at Fort Rucker. Alabama for various aviation training battalions. He was an instructor pilot for the. Oh fifty fifty eight. The Kiowa which was used as the army's primary observation helicopter at the time shortly after in one thousand nine hundred five Linda. Move back back to Walla Walla with their children and did not depend on Roberts financial support. Linda was happy for a bit but she found it hard to support herself and and her daughters on her own. Linda said quote. I loved the separation but the girls were pleading to be with their dad. They didn't want to be poor and not have anything thing anymore and quote so Linda Reunited with Robert in nineteen eighty eight in July of that year while Robert Lee. Yates was on leave. He returned turned home to Oak Harbor. Meanwhile in nearby Skagit County twenty-three year-old Stacy Elizabeth Han was working as a sex worker on July seventh nineteen one thousand nine hundred eighty eight thirty six year old Robert Encountered Hawn presumably while she was looking for customers. It's not clear. Exactly what happened during their encounter. But but months later on December twenty eighth nineteen eighty-eight authorities found haunts remains outside Mount Vernon she had been shot once in the head at I. Police believed that. Han was a victim of Gary. Leon ridgway the Green River killer. He was another active serial killer who targeted sex workers in Washington state. Eight at the time however Robert confessed to murdering Han years later and it would play a big role in his trial sometime in nineteen eighty eight eight. The army re-stationed Robert Germany. This time in Gulping in about one hundred and nineteen miles from Munich. He remained there for three years. We don't know oh for sure. If Robert Killed again in Germany but at present German authorities consider him a potential suspect in a string of twenty six unsolved homicides his involvement in those homicides is still being investigated in one thousand nine hundred nine. Robert's wife Linda who was still in the states gave birth to kyle all the couples I son and Fifth Child Overall Robert Favored aside and began to neglect his daughters. Sasha Sonya amber and Michelle. It's unknown in what ways he treated his son differently than his daughters. But it's usually typical for parents to view sons and daughters differently. Dr Glenn Wilson a professor in Gender and sexual psychology told the mirror that the fact that men and their sons share y chromosomes which carry more genetic material. Cereal and women's double x chromosomes could point to an instinctual preference for sons. It also may have to do with common interests. Wilson told the publication Asian in two thousand ten before the birth of father would assume he'd connect with his son. Psychologically more so than with his daughter and that they'd have more shared interests rests such as playing football but regardless of how much Robert character any of his children. He was often too far from home to see them. Robert returned to the United States dates in one thousand nine hundred eighty one and served as a flight instructor at the Fort Drum Bass in New York. Robert was also part of the Fort Drum assault helicopter division and he went on. Let's several missions with the team. It was during one of these missions that Robert drew attention to himself a story that would get more attention than many of his murders. In in December nineteen ninety-two he served in Operation Restore Hope in Somalia while serving Robert and his fellow soldiers became tired of eating army food and craved barbecue. Robert decided to do something about it one day. He flew the Kiowa helicopter over a nearby forest and took aim at a wild wild pig below. The pig was hit Robert and the rest of the crew landed the helicopter after the shot. The gutted the pig and loaded it onto Alexander thrilled for the fresh meat. Robert was not reprimanded for his unauthorized joyride or unbecoming actions. Dennis Mills who served with Robert Recall that it wasn't taken very seriously. He told the Seattle Times quote. They tried to court martial him because he didn't go through the proper channels. It all turned turned into a big joke after awhile. It didn't hurt a damn thing. They were just trying to get some fresh meat and quote. Many serial killers seem to display a violent tendencies towards animals children and adults according to an F. B. I.. Report in two thousand sixteen. If a person hurts animals then they're likely me to hurt humans or will do so in the future John Thompson Deputy Executive Director of the National Sheriff's Association told the FBI quote if somebody is harming an animal. There's a good chance there also hurting a human. If we see patterns of animal abuse the odds are that something else is going on end quote but nobody suspected Robert of anything more sinister at the time probably because they viewed his hunting trip as little more than a desire for good barbecue barbecue rather than consequences. Robert was promoted after this stint overseas in Nineteen ninety-four Robert returned to the United States and became a pilot who trains army aviation instructors at Fort Rucker in Alabama at the time he was one of only ten army instructors on that highly trained level. Miles Merrill one of Robert's former students recalled quote. Bob Was Really Kinda quiet. He was very methodical. saw things through quite well. Patients patients like you wouldn't believe and quote Merrill spent seven hours a day with Robert for the eight weeks of training throughout that time. Robert mentioned his children but never mentioned his wife merrythought. Robert was a single dad. Robert received at least thirty days of leave a year from the army during one. Such leave in Nineteen ninety-four Four Robert Bottle White nineteen seventy seven. Corvette he drove back to the base. A move that would later come back to haunt him. Occasionally and Linda attended parties on the Fort Rucker base with Robert. She saw a whole new side of him. At the events Robert Drank alcohol and flirted with other women. His colleagues colleagues called him. James Bond Linda was shocked at her husband's behavior but she tolerated it. His army pay helped support their family and she needed needed it for her children. Plus Linda was still living in Washington while Robert was stationed in Alabama. So she rarely had to deal with his excessive flirting and other bad behaviors his time in Fort Rucker coincidentally aligned with the murder of -Tarian Corbett a nineteen year old transgender woman who was killed on August tenth nineteen eighteen ninety five. Some sources say she was a sex worker. Corbett was last seen at a nightspot in Dothan Alabama located twenty miles. South of Fort. Rucker Kerr the next morning. Corbett was found by an unidentified bystander in a remote area along the nearby chalk to achieve river she had been shot in the face several times times with a forty five caliber pistol at the time police theorize the murder may have a connection to Fort Rucker due its proximity but that was little more than a hunch and no leads ever materialized. It wasn't until decades later that Robert was considered a suspect in the case Dale County. Detectives were unable all to determine if Robert owned a forty five caliber pistol at the time but they knew he would have been familiar with the area due to his time on the military base. Though police consider Robert Robert Suspect. He was never formally charged with it eight days. After Corbett's murder Robert Graduated from an instructor pilot course at Fort Rucker on August Eighteenth nineteen ninety-five later that month he received a master army aviator badge which symbolized his fifteen years. That's a military helicopter pilot put. He'd been a pilot for the majority of his eighteen years in the service around. This time the army underwent a reduction enforces forty four year old. Robert accepted an incentive to leave the army after eighteen years of service. It was a shock to most people because Robert was only two years shy of the twenty year mark which is when he would qualify for full military retirement benefits back in Alabama police continued. CORBETT's murder investigation several sources have theorized sized data for upper did murder carpet. The investigation is most likely what caused Robert to leave. The army in Nineteen ninety-six Roberts deal allowed him to continue you. Receiving forty five percent of normal annual. Pay Likely around twenty thousand dollars a year during his eighteen year career Robert Earned and eleven honors including several Army Achievement Medals and Meritorious Service medals after retiring from the army in Nineteen ninety-six Roberts Front Algarotti not recalled. That Robert found a good deal on a home in spokane Washington. Robert moved his family into the new home in South Hill on a cul de sac with well manicured lawns. But this idyllic neighborhood was unsettling Lee close to the most notorious street in spokane will learn how that street got its CD reputation reputation in a moment now. Back to the story in nineteen ninety. Six Robert Lee Yates and his wife. Linda hoped there moved to spokane Washington. winton might rekindle their romance in their marriage. Although that wasn't the case Linden Robert Soon realized that they no longer felt the same about each other but they decided decided to stay together as they raised their five children. Linda said quote. The Romance was gone but I felt guilty about splitting up the family. The kids love their dad and I just kind of suffered through it and quote after leaving the service Robert found his military retirement. Package wasn't enough to support his children. He began to look for a new job but despite being an accomplished pilot has work. Experience wasn't directly applicable to the civilian workforce and he had trouble finding work work in September nineteen ninety six forty four year old. Robert took a job at Pantry Inc.. A company that assembled electronic instruments used in heavy Abbey Machinery petrol owner Tony Givens recalled quote. He was a good worker who mostly kept to himself. Nothing really stuck out about him. He was just an average average. Joe Pretty Quiet. I didn't talk to him much but he seemed friendly enough and quote. Once Robert had a steady income. He took up a new hobby at home. Cars cars he owned three Nineteen ninety-six Robert worked on the cars in wash them off and in the family's front yard. The entire neighborhood was familiar with his enthusiasm for cars and neighbors often joked that they wanted Robert to wash their cars to Robert hid behind his love of cars. Even his own child got a sense of his dark tendencies. One day in Nineteen ninety-six his now nineteen year old daughter. Sonia found her father's address book and looked look through it. She noticed it was filled with names of women she didn't recognize. Sonia started to go through the address book and call the Women One by one. She ask them if they knew her father and they each answered no when confronted about the address book. Robert told Sonya that he was buying used car parts from from the women named in the book. Even though the women said they didn't know him however Linden to had reason to be suspicious of her husband she noticed the family was running out of money has her husband. Frequently withdrew cash from. ATM's Roberts Response. He told her to get a job. Although Robert and Linda's marriage bridge had been loveless for years it had stayed physical but after Robert left the service they began to have issues in the bedroom as well around this time Linda. The recalled Robert used to talk about being impotent and wanted to take Viagra. She remember telling him quote. It's okay you're probably tired. And I'm tired and quote. Put a rectal dysfunction in men over forty is relatively common a two thousand thirteen study of four hundred thirty nine men in the Journal of Sexual Medicine revealed that forty percent of men over forty were affected. One day in Nineteen ninety-six Linda found Roberts pornographic magazines filled with images of orgies. She also found a piece of paper with more names. A list of people interested in group sex another time. Robert Asks Linda if she was interested in kissing another woman. Linda had accepted. That Robert was looking for sex outside of their marriage. Meanwhile his assignments at Pancevo slowed to a halt so forty four year. Old Robert took a job at Kaiser aluminum processing plant his colleagues. Were much younger than him so they often saw him. As a father figure Roberts. Kaiser colleagues described him as a family guy he often took coffee breaks with Tim. Buchanan at the plant Buchanan recalled quote. He got along with all of us and quote. Robert started out at the processing. Plant is a carbon center working with carbon the aluminum making process. Then he became an Overhead Crane operator. Kaiser spokesperson Susan Ash said quote. By all accounts. He was a good worker. He had a very good work record and quote but the job wasn't enough for Robert Darker side began to emerge the most dangerous street in spokane at some point white in Nineteen ninety-six Robert Lee. Yates visited the notorious East. SPRIG avenue in Spokane. The area had a reputation for being crime riddled old a haven for sex workers. The spokesman review reported in two thousand seventeen that throughout the years east sprague avenue head up to thirty sex workers a day occupying corners and throughout the nineteen nineties. Sex workers from the avenue often ended up murdered one particular East sprague avenue. Sex worker thirty eight year old Shannon ours. Alinsky was last seen alive. On May Twenty Seventh Nineteen ninety-six she was a former waitress and and heroin user so Linski was also the mother to a twenty year old daughter. Zielinski had a criminal record with drug possession and theft charges on that day they. She was drinking alcohol with a group of men near Sprague Avenue. A police officer approach group but no arrests were made later that evening. Witnesses say they sel and ski leave her nearby residents for sex work. She wore a grey dress and high black boots. It's unclear how Robert Metzler Ski. or how their encounter counter turned deadly but on June fourteenth nineteen ninety-six. The last day of classes at the local high school two teenage boys decided to investigate a rotting stench stench at their school bus. Stop in the foothills of Mount Spokane. They had noticed the smell for a few days and set off to find the source. The teens thought the foul odor might be coming from a deer carcass or a dead raccoon. They found neither in their search. The boys reached Holcomb Road and explored the nearby brush. They saw something lying beneath low-hanging pine branches. It was the remains of a woman's body maggots infested a woman's woman's body clad in a grey dress a blue towel had been draped over the body barely covering it the boy spotted a pair of pantyhose a pair of white white sox and one high black boot near the remains terrified. The teens ran home and contacted the police. They returned to show Spokane Dan. County sheriff's Deputy Brent Garret the body. They had found sheriff's Detective Rick Grabbing Stein examined the crime scene and theorized that the woman had been killed somewhere else since the forest area didn't show any signs of struggle or blood. The spot near Holcomb road just happened to be the killers dumping site. The woman's let's head had two gunshot wounds. One other right side and one on the left police tried to take a sperm sample from the body. That could help track down the killer but the body. He was too decomposed. There was no idea or wallet. Found on the body or nearby authorities used the body's fingerprints to identify her as Zilenski. Forensic entomologist Dr. Neil haskell examined the maggots founded silence crime scene to figure out the data after death he studied the development of the insect which was identified as the black blow fly Maggot. This detail would later become crucial to the murder case. It's the life cycle length of the black blow. Fly Maggot is determined by temperature. Its life cycle will fully advance through all the stages if the temperature is at least around seventy degrees Fahrenheit otherwise its life cycle will be stunted based on the light stage of the maggots found in the body and the outside temperature in the days as leading up to the body's discovery Haskell determined that the bodies date of death was around may twenty sixth or twenty seventh Nineteen ninety-six this also aligned with the fact that so Linski was last seen alive around the same time among the maggots grab and Stein found a shell casing near where the body was found. Ballistics experts identified the munition used as a twenty five caliber gun. Robert used this murder weapon for several more of his victims Robinson. Winston had been familiar with silence ski and arrested her on East sprague avenue several times for drug possession and theft. He was unable to recognize her face. Due to the advanced at state of decomposition. The detective personally told Celinski Smother Shannon Laughlin about her death. She said she knew as soon as she saw him. Laughlin Flint said. I always thought it was going to happen eventually. Robert wasn't identified as a suspect in Dolinsky murderer. At the time she lived at dangerous life. Hyphen her east. SPRAGUE avenue activities in addition to sex work. She had recently ripped off notorious drug dealer who vehemently refused to take a lie detector test. I it's Alinsky was also a potential key witness in the case against Joe Joe Andrus a murder suspect who allegedly shot two people in Spokane in nineteen ninety ninety four. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter a year later. Police initially believed she could have been murdered in connection with that case months later Kalinda caught Robert with blood on his hands literally in the fall of nineteen ninety six. Linda noticed that Robert didn't return home one night the next morning he he returned home and blood covered the back of their van. Robert told her that he had run over a dog and driven to a veterinarian. She said she believed him. It's unknown if the story had some truth to it or if the blood belonged to a still unknown human victim. Robert began amassing more victims in nineteen nineteen ninety-seven after a big blow to his ego almost exactly a year after his army retirement. Rob joined the National Guard in Washington in April nineteen ninety ninety seven at age forty five. His goal was to fly helicopters. Again Lieutenant Colonel. Rick Patterson a National Guard spokesperson said. He came to us very very very qualified. Robert Train near Tacoma once a month in order for Robert to be able to fly helicopters for the National Guard. He had to undergo a routine medical medical examination. He had to remain grounded in the meantime but there was a lengthy delay in processing the approval for flight. Some sources say an unknown ailment was was found in Robert's examination and doctors kept him grounded from flight from April nineteen ninety-seven until spring of Nineteen Ninety eight his performance evaluations valuation stated that his morale dedication remained high. Even though he couldn't fly but on the ground there seemed to be another side to Robert. It was during during this time period when he murdered the majority of his victims next week. We'll discuss the thirteen murders Robert committed between nineteen ninety seven seven and nineteen ninety eight mostly on East sprague avenue also see how a glaring clerical error involving his beloved white corvette kept. Police lease offers his trail for years and during that time period this murderous pilot was free to comb the St for victims but terror both on the street and in the sky there was literally nowhere to hide from Roberts watchful eye thanks again for tuning into serial killers. We'll be back. Act Monday with a new episode. You can find more episodes of serial killers as well as all of park casts. Other podcasts. On Apple PODCASTS. spotify stitcher her. Google play cast box tune in or your favorite podcast directory. Several of you have asked how to help this show and if you enjoy this show the best way to help us is to. I believe a five star review and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at two park cast and twitter at podcast. That work. We'll see you next time. CAV have a killer week. Serial killers was created by Max. Cutler is a production of cutler media and is part of the podcast network it is produced by Maxon Ron Cutler sound designed by Dick Schroeder with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul molitor additional production assistance by carly madden and Maggie Admire Meyer. Serial killers is written by Mallory. Kara and stars Greg Poulsen and Vanessa Richardson.

Robert Robert Lee Roberts James Bond Linda Robert Lee Gates murder Robert Lee Robert Robert Suspect The Times John Taylor Yates Robert Lee Yates Roberts Father Robert Senior Robert Killed Savage Robert Senior army Oak Harbor Washington Robert Gates Junior spokane Robert Junior Walla Walla
Parcast Classic: Robert Lee Yates Pt. 1

Serial Killers

43:34 min | 8 months ago

Parcast Classic: Robert Lee Yates Pt. 1

"Hi I'm Max. Keller the founder of podcast. I'd like to take a moment to thank all of you for your loyalty and support. It's our pleasure to bring you innovative and entertaining podcast each day. Which will continue to do so moving forward like you. We are deeply sad in concern by the daily updates regarding the spread of the corona virus. So as a precautionary measure. I've decided to pause parkas production and recording for the time being although this episode. You're about to hear as an older episode. We feel that is one of our best is still relevant today. We apologize for any inconvenience. This may cause you're listening. Experience the safety of our hosts and staff are always top priority. Because of this we feel this actions necessary. We will be back next week with a brand new episode and we'll keep you updated with any further developments. We thank you for your understanding your support and of course fearless and then you allow us to do what we love and were extremely extremely grateful. Thank you again for your time. Please check parkas social media for more updates. Due to the graphic nature of these killers crimes listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder and assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen friends and neighbors knew Robert Lee. As an average joe he was quiet and unassuming to some acquaintances in his native spokane Washington. Yates was so remarkable that they didn't remember him at all. Yates was a decorated army helicopter. Pilot he was a father to five children. He enjoyed working with his cars which included his beloved white corvette. He lived a quiet unassuming life or so everyone thought. It soon became clear that despite Roberts mild matter nature he had a sinister side from nineteen seventy five until nine hundred ninety eight. He murdered at least seventeen people around Washington state. Soon this unassuming average Joe became spokane's most Torius resident. Hi I'm Greg Olsen and this is serial killers on the podcast network every Monday dive into the minds and madness of serial killers today. We're going to take a deep dive into the life of Robert Lee Gates a convicted murderer who killed sixteen women and one man in spokane Washington. I'm here with my co host than Richardson. Hi everyone at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network? And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening. It really does help us. We also now have merch head to podcast dot com slash merch for more information. Robert Lee. Yates was a former prison guard army veteran and father of five children but he harbored a more vicious side during the ten year period between nineteen eighty eight and nineteen ninety eight. Yates murdered at least fifteen sex workers in spokane. He picked up the women in His van had sex with them and shot them in the head in two thousand forty eight year old. Yates was charged with thirteen counts of murder and received a sentence of four hundred eight years in jail in two thousand two. He was convicted of two additional murders and was sentenced to death by lethal injection after a two thousand eighteen Washington State Supreme Court ruling. The death penalty was abolished. Devastate at his sentence was commuted to life in prison. In this week's episode we'll examine Robert's early life in Oak Harbor Washington as well as his early victims next week. We'll discuss the rest of his spokane victims. His arrest and murder trials before Robert was even born. Murder was part of his family's history in nineteen forty five Roberts Father Robert Senior lived a seemingly. Quiet life in Van Buren Tennessee with his parents. Fifty-three-year-old Novella Johnson. Yates and fifty five year old. John Taylor Yates. John worked as a farmer. And as such wasn't home for long stretches of time this put most of the domestic and child rearing pressures on Novella who was raising their eleven children. October Twelfth Nineteen Forty Five Roberts. Senior was a young boy sleeping in his upstairs bedroom. He awoke to loud noises downstairs and went to investigate. Robert Senior saw his father lying on the floor of a bedroom bleeding from his head. Novella sat calmly and quietly in another room as if nothing had happened. But something did clearly transpire between the couple. Novella had killed John with a double edged. Axe Medical Examiners found that John. Yates had four wounds on his head and face including one that spanned the entire right side of his head and penetrated the brain. John was taken to the hospital and died of his injuries six days later on October. Eighteenth nineteen forty-five it's unknown. What prompted Novella to kill her husband that night police arrested? Novella and charged her with felonious assault. She was released from Warren County. Jail on a three thousand dollar bond. There are no records to show whether or not she was convicted of the murder. She was sent to a mental hospital for unknown and unrecorded reasons where she remained for seven years. Meanwhile Little Roberts senior grew up and married a woman named Anna may seven years after his grandmother killed his grandfather. Robert Gates Junior was born on May twenty seventh nineteen fifty two in Oak Harbor Washington. He was the second child to Robert Senior and anime gates. Yates was a quiet child. Well-mannered well behaved and well. Meaning he didn't make any trouble in Oak Harbor. A town on Washington's would be island with striking views of the Olympic mountains in the Pacific Ocean. Robert Senior was a religious man and a very involved member of the seventh day. Adventist Church seventh day. Adventists is a form of Protestant Christianity. That believes in the forthcoming return of Jesus Christ to Earth on like most Christian denominations seventh day adventists observed the Sabbath on Saturdays. They avoid meat drugs and alcohol Robert. Seniors Local Church congregation was made up of about one hundred people. Pe- took his participation seriously. He wanted to pass along his values to his son. Robert Junior grew up with a close bond to his father. His father coached his little league baseball team. Robert Junior was specifically interested in pitching. They attended church together and Roberts sang in the church choir. They hunted deer when fishing and hike together. Often Roberts close friend Al Ghamdi said. There was a lot of respect in that family. They were the type of people you'd want as your neighbor from the outside young Robert Lee. Yates was a picture perfect kid but despite this there was a dark stain on Robert's childhood at age six Robert Live next door to a family with an eleven year old son. It's unclear if the eleven year old and Robert were friends but either way the eleven year old allegedly sexually abused Robert at age six. Has He grew up? Roberts neighbors in October knew him as a hard working young man. He frequently mowed lawns around the neighborhood. Pumped gas at the local gas station and harvested peas with a farmer to earn one dollar. An eight cents an hour but according to some sources Robert had a dark side even during childhood at one point he began hurting and torturing innocent animals at age eleven. Robert may have set fire to a house but he was not formally charged or accused of the arson in highschool. Robert was a pitcher for the Oak. Harbor wildcats Varsity baseball team. His former teammate Harry. Ferrier remembered Robert Dozen Average Joe saying he could throw a fastball with precision. He was kind of quiet a few of his. Oh carver high school classmates and Teachers Remembered Robert. Quiet student who turned into Simon's on time Robert also played football briefly but quit during his sophomore year in nineteen sixty eight. He had a steady girlfriend for most of high school. He wasn't just an athlete. Robert was also part of the school choir and talented writer. His classmates recalled today when he read a sonnet to his English class allowed. They thought it was a work written by Shakespeare but Robert had written the sonnet itself during his senior year in nineteen seventy eighteen year old. Robert's girlfriend moved away so he skipped the Oak Harbor. Homecoming dance instead. He invited close friend. Al Gaudy over to his home to play Canasta. A Card Game Godley remembered quote. He didn't smoke and he didn't drink. We didn't give into peer pressure. That was nar thing. Our thing was hunting and fishing and hiking and quote Robert and Gaudy bonded over their common career aspirations. They wanted to become doctors. Biologists or Park Rangers together. They went on a sixteen hour. Backpacking trip with the goal of catching a twenty inch trout. The fish was famous for living in an isolated lake in Washington's cascade mountains in addition to wanting to catch the trout Robert was fascinated by eagles. Birds flying overhead in the mountains and dreamed of flying himself after graduation. Robert and Godley attended Skagit Valley Community College together while there he began dating an eighteen year old classmate named Shirley Neil under he graduated with an associate of Arts degree in general studies in Nineteen Seventy Two at age twenty. F- Robert and Neil Lender got married on August twenty seventh nine thousand nine hundred seventy two and moved to the city of college place together to attend Walla Walla College. Robert chose that specific school because it was run by seventh day adventists at Walla Walla. He pursued pre med studies. But Robert's first marriage didn't last long in nineteen seventy four. Shirley moved out of their college place. Apartment returned home and asked for a divorce reasons for leaving. The marriage are unknown but twenty two year. Old Robert didn't contest to request and moved on quickly. Robert began dating Walla. Walla college classmate. Linda brewer almost immediately after his split from Shirley. Linda soon became pregnant in July nineteen seventy-four. They got married in a small ceremony but there was one problem. The marriage took place before his divorce. To Shirley was finalized. Robert and Linda's marriage was considered invalid because he was still married to someone else but Linda didn't care. She was in love and for the time being. That was all that mattered. But about a month after their wedding roberts new pseudo. Bride began noticing that her husband had some odd habits. One day she found a whole he drilled in the attic window realize the whole looked into their next door neighbor's apartment. Robert had made the hole so he could watch the couple in the apartment. Next door have sex perturbed. Linda left Robert but they quickly reconciled and resumed their relationship a month later. It's unclear if Robert continued his voyeurism in the attic. Shirley and Roberts divorce became final in August nineteen seventy-four a few months later in December nineteen seventy four. Linda gave birth to a daughter named Sasha. The birth of their first child motivated. Robert drop out of college and find a steady job. Linda's father had worked as a corrections officer at the Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla. For eighteen years and Robert decided to join him. He became a guard at the prison in July. Nineteen seventy five. Though this career would be short lived some sources say twenty-three-year-old Robert worked at the prison for three to four months and other say he lasted up to six months before he quit either way. Linda's family were confused by Roberts sporadic behavior. It didn't help that. Robert gave no explanation for quitting in fact his real motive for distancing himself from the area wouldn't be on earth for over a decade. Robert had begun to kill. We'll learn of Roberts first victims in a moment podcast listeners. If you enjoy stories about murder mystery and the unexplained you'll absolutely love the new podcast original series supernatural with Ashley Flowers. It's hosted by Crime Junkies Ashley. Flowers and you can hear new episodes every Wednesday. We all know that most mysteries can be solved by looking at the facts but sometimes the facts don't lead to a logical explanation. The truth lies somewhere in the unknown in supernatural with Ashley. Flowers Ashley takes a deep dive into the strange and surreal to explain some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences each week. She'll dig into a different crime or mystery where the most fitting theory isn't always the most conventional from exercises to unsolved murders to alien abductions. Ashley will take on. The tails challenge the unexplained and dissect the facts with a heavy helping of skepticism and rationale. So are you ready to get to the bottom of history's most peculiar events? Follow supernatural with Ashley. Flowers free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story in Nineteen seventy-five Robert Lee. Aides resigned from the Washington state penitentiaries suddenly and without explanation but the real reason for his resignation may have been related to his first two known murders on July thirteenth. Nineteen seventy five twenty one year old Patrick Oliver and twenty two year old Susan savage. We're to close friends. Spending some time together Mill Creek Park in Walla Walla Oliver and savage had good reputations in the town they were both well liked top students. Who came from good families? He had just returned from studying in France while savage recently graduated from Washington State University. The friends met up for a picnic in Mill Creek Park and even went for a swim in the lake. Mill Creek Park now known as Mill Creek Dam and Bennington Lake is a popular spot in Walla Walla. The sprawling six hundred acre recreational area has many hiking trails. According to The Washington trails association is also a popular spot for burgers bikers hunters runners and anglers that day. Robert Gates was in the same area for hunting target practice. It's not clear why. Or how but Robert Approached the coupled sometime during his target practice activities Walla Walla County. Sheriff Mike Humphries told the Walla Walla Union bulletin quote. I think he went up there to target shoot like usually did he came across these people and it happened and his shot. Oliver three times. The last bullet was especially fatal. It pierced Oliver's heart propert left savage with two fatal gunshot wounds one in her shoulder and the other in her head behind her left ear. Robert took most of the clothes off. Savage's unconscious body and placed on top of Oliver in a sexual manner. Robert covered both dead bodies with a pile of brush and army sleeping bag and a tire killers sometimes position the bodies of their victims in suggestive ways in order to send a message author and investigative historian. Peter vronsky elaborated on this in his book. Serial killers the method and madness of monsters. There are two ways a killer position. A body post mortem the first is called staging when the killer arranges the corpses and away meant to confuse or mislead investigators but if the victims are arranged in a sexual or perverse manner that fulfils the killers on fantasies. It's called posing considering that Oliver and savages bodies were hidden from plain sight. Robert may have been posing the corpses to act out a perverse fantasy for his own pleasure. According to a two thousand four study in the journal Forensic Science killers who pose bodies. WanNa shock anyone who discovers the bodies of the victims. The study also found that female victims tend to be the ones who are staged posed or left in some kind of unusual position after being murdered posed bodies can indicate that sexual assault had occurred and that the manner of death was particularly hands on for the killer usually victims who are elected. An unusual position have been stabbed bound or bludgeoned. Robert Killed Savage at point blank range which also denotes a certain hands on closeness. The next day Oliver's brother Dan and his uncle Frank Munn noticed Oliver and savage didn't return home the night before. Danon went out looking for them at mill. Creek. Dan recalled. I saw funny arrangement of debris near the edge of the creek by found them. Dan inman drove straight to the local police station to report. What they had found in the park police investigated the murder and didn't turn up any leads at the time. It was also unclear if Oliver savage had been sexually assaulted in the attack but Robert would never be a suspect in the murder. He would only be convicted of it after confessing to it over a decade later. In fact Robert was nowhere near the murders at the time. He had already distanced himself from the nearby prison and found new employment as a movie theater. Usher sometime later in one thousand nine hundred seventy five. He and Linda moved back to Roberts. Hometown of Oak Harbor likely because his mother had been battling cancer shortly after arrival. Twenty-three-year-old Robert Lee. Yates took a job as a janitor at Whidbey Island hospital where his mother worked as the housekeeping supervisor in July nineteen seventy-six Robert and Linda through a second wedding and were officially married. It took place in Oak Harbor with Robert's parents as witnesses. Linda officially took Roberts last name but she joined the family just as another. Yates passed on on October. Ninth Nineteen Seventy six. Robert's mother Anna may died of cancer. Robert and his friend Gaudy were pallbearers. At her funeral Gotti claimed that the death didn't affect Robert too much because Robert Anatomy didn't have a close relationship. He told the Seattle Times quote. Boys Aren't attached to their mothers. Like girls are. It doesn't throw us over the edge and quote sometime in one thousand. Nine hundred seventy seven. Robert became a father again when Linda gave birth to their second child. Sonya on October Fourth Nineteen Seventy seven. Robert enlisted in the US Army. At Age twenty five he was older than the other recruits but proceeded to train at base in Missouri Texas and Massachusetts in one thousand nine hundred eighty twenty eight year. Old Robert was chosen to train army pilot fulfilling his childhood dream of flying in order to become an army pilot. Individuals are selected for special training called Warrant Officer Candidate School Roberts Training for this took place at Fort Rucker Alabama the army's aviation centre in July nineteen eighty before it was allowed to fly planes. He started his training with helicopters. Robert became highly skilled helicopter pilot. His colleagues called him an excellent pilot. Knowledgeable and safety conscious from nineteen eighty until nineteen. Eighty-four Robert was stationed in Germany located about fifteen miles from Frankfurt. Linda at his daughters remained in Washington but Robert visited the family while on leave during one of Robert's trips home Robert and Linda expanded their family during this time. Linda gave birth to two more children their third daughter amber in nineteen eighty and their fourth daughter. Michelle who was born in Nineteen eighty-four. The Yates family now had four daughters. Sasha Amber Sonia and Michelle but despite their large family. Robert and Linda seemed happy to keep their lives separate. She raised their daughters while Robert served in the military. He rarely mentioned his wife to his army colleagues and many didn't even know he was married even when he was back in the states. Robert and Linda spent time apart in one thousand nine hundred four thirty two year old. Robert became an instructor at Fort Rucker. For Various Aviation Training Battalions. He was an instructor pilot for the. Oh fifty eight. The Kiowa which was used as the army's primary observation helicopter at the time shortly after in nineteen eighty five. Linda move back to Walla Walla with their children and did not depend on Roberts financial support. Linda was happy for a bit but she found it hard to support herself and her daughters on her own. Linda said quote. I loved the separation but the girls were pleading to be with their dad. They didn't want to be poor and not have anything anymore and quote so Linda Reunited with Robert in nineteen eighty eight in July of that year while Robert Lee was on leave. He returned home to Oak Harbor. Meanwhile in nearby Skagit County twenty three year old Stacy Elizabeth. Hawn was working as a sex worker on July seventh nine thousand nine hundred eighty eight thirty six year old. Robert encountered on presumably while she was looking for customers. It's not clear. Exactly what happened? During their encounter but months later on December twenty eighth nineteen eighty-eight authorities found haunts remains outside Mount Vernon she had been shot once in the head at first police believed. Han was a victim of Gary. Leon ridgway the Green River killer. He was another active serial killer who targeted sex workers in Washington state at the time however Robert confessed to murdering Hawn years later and it would play a big role in his trial sometime in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. The army re-stationed Robert in Germany. This time in Gulping in about one hundred and nine hundred miles from Munich. He remained there for three years. We don't know for sure if Robert Killed again in Germany but at present German authorities consider him a potential suspect in a string of twenty six unsolved homicides. His involvement in those homicides is still being investigated in one thousand nine hundred nine. Robert's wife Linda who was still in the states gave birth to kyle the couple's first son and fifth child overall Robert Favored his son and began to neglect his four daughters. Sasha Sonya amber and Michelle. It's unknown in what ways he treated his son differently than his daughters. But it's usually typical for parents to view sons and daughters differently. Dr Glenn Wilson Professor in Gender and sexual psychology told the mirror that the fact that men and their sons share y chromosomes which carry more genetic material than women's double x chromosomes could point to an instinctual preference for sons. It also may have to do with common interests. Wilson told the publication in two thousand ten before the birth of father would assume he'd connect with his son psychologically more so than with his daughter and they'd have more shared interests such as playing football but regardless of how much character any of his children. He was often too far from home to see them. Robert returned to the United States in Nineteen ninety-one and served as a flight instructor at the Fort Drum Bass in New York. Robin was also part of the Fort Drum Assault Helicopter Division and. He went on several missions with the team. It was during one of these missions. That Robert drew attention to himself a story that would get more attention than many of his murders in December nineteen ninety two. He served in operation hope in Somalia while serving Robert and his fellow soldiers became tired of eating army food and craved barbecue. Robert decided to do something about it one day. He flew the Kiowa helicopter over a nearby forest and took aim at a wild pig below. The pig was hit. Robert and the rest of the crew landed the helicopter after the shot. Gutted the pig and loaded it onto the helicopter thrilled for the fresh meat. Robert was not reprimanded for his unauthorized joy. Right or unbecoming actions. Dennis Mills who served with Robert Recall that it wasn't taken very seriously. He told the Seattle Times quote. They tried to court martial him because he didn't go through the proper channels. It all turned into a big joke after awhile. It didn't hurt a damn thing. They were just trying to get some fresh mate and quote. Many serial killers seemed to display violent tendencies towards animals as children and adults according to an F. B. I. Report in Two Thousand Sixteen. If a person hurts animals then they're likely to hurt humans or will do so in the future John Thomson. Deputy Executive Director of the National Sheriff's Association told the FBI quote if somebody is harming an animal. There's a good chance there also hurting a human. If we see patterns of animal abuse the odds are that something else is going on and quote but nobody suspected Robert of anything more sinister at the time probably because they viewed his hunting trip as little more than a desire for good barbecue rather than consequences. Robert was after this stint overseas in one thousand. Nine hundred four Robert returned to the United States and became a pilot who trains army aviation instructors at Fort in Alabama. At the time he was one of only ten army instructors on that highly trained level. Miles Merrill one of Robert's former students recalled quote. Bob was really kind of quiet. He was very methodical. Saw things through quite well patients like you wouldn't believe and quote Meryl Spent Seven Hours a day with Robert for the eight weeks of training throughout that time. Robert mentioned his children but never mentioned smyth. Merrythought Robert was a single dad. Robert received at least thirty days of leave a year from the army during one such leave in one thousand nine hundred four Robert Bottle white nine thousand nine hundred seventy seven corvette. He drove it back to the base. A move that would later come back to haunt him. Occasionally Linda attended parties on the Fort Rucker base with Robert. She saw a whole new side of him that the events Robert Drank alcohol and flirted with other women. His colleagues called him James Bond. Linda was shocked at her husband's behavior but she tolerated it. His army pay help support their family and she needed it for her children. Plus Linda was still living in Washington while Robert was stationed in Alabama. So she rarely had to deal with his excessive flirting and other bad behaviors his time at Fort Rucker coincidentally aligned with the murder of -Tarian Corbett a nineteen year old transgender woman was killed on August. Tenth Nineteen ninety-five some sources. Say she was a sex worker. Corbett was last seen at a nightspot in Dothan Alabama located twenty miles. South of Fort Rucker the next morning. Corbett was found by an unidentified bystander in a remote area along the nearby Choctaw Hatschi River. She had been shot in the face several times with a forty five caliber pistol at the time police theorized the murder may have a connection to Fort Rucker due to its proximity. But that was little more than a hunch and no leads ever materialized. It wasn't until decades later that Robert was considered a suspect in the case Dale County. Detectives were unable to determine if Robert owned forty five caliber pistol at the time but they knew he would have been familiar with the area due to his time on the military base though police consider. Robert suspect he was never formally charged with it eight days. After Corbett's murder Robert Graduated from an instructor pilot course at Fort Rucker on August. Eighteenth nineteen ninety-five later that month. He received the Master Army Aviator Badge which symbolized his fifteen years a military helicopter pilot. He'd been a pilot for the majority of his eighteen years in the service around. This time the army underwent a reduction in forces forty four year old. Robert accepted an incentive to leave the army after eighteen years of service. It was a shock to most people because Robert was only two years shy of the twenty year mark which is when he would qualify for full military retirement benefits back in. Alabama police continued. Corbett's murder investigation several sources. Have theorized that forever did murder carpet. The investigation most likely what caused Robert to leave the army in Nineteen ninety-six Roberts deal allowed him to continue receiving forty five percent of his normal annual. Pay Likely around twenty thousand dollars a year during his eighteen year career. Robert earned eleven honors including several Army Achievement Medals and Meritorious Meritorious Service medals after retiring from the army in nineteen ninety. Six Roberts Front Al Ghamdi recalled that Robert found a good deal on a home in spokane Washington. Robert moved his family into the new home in South Hill on a cul de sac with well manicured lawns. But this idyllic neighborhood was unsettling Lee close to the most notorious street in spokane will learn how that street got its CD reputation in a moment. Now back to the story in Nineteen ninety-six Robert Lee. Yates and his wife. Linda hoped there moved to spokane. Washington might rekindled the romance in their marriage. Although that wasn't the case Linden Robert Soon realized that they no longer felt the same about each other but they decided to stay together as they raised their five children. Linda said quote. The Romance was gone but I felt guilty about splitting up the family. The kids love their dad and I just kind of suffered through it and quote after leaving the Service. Robert found his military retirement. Package wasn't enough to support his children. He began to look for a new job but despite being accomplished pilot his work. Experience wasn't directly applicable to the civilian workforce and he had trouble finding work in September nineteen ninety-six forty four year. Old Robert took a job at Pantr- rolling a company that assembled electronic instruments used in heavy machinery. Pantr- owner Tony Givens recalled quote. He was a good worker who mostly kept to himself. Nothing really stuck out about him. He was just an average Joe. Pretty quiet. I didn't talk to him much but he seemed friendly enough and quote wants. Robert had a steady income. He took up a new hobby at home cars. He owned three in one thousand. Nine hundred eighty six Robert worked on the cars and wash them off in the family's front yard. The entire neighborhood was familiar with his enthusiasm for cars and neighbors often joked that they wanted Robert to wash their cars to Robert. Hid behind his love of cars even as his own child got a sense of his dark tendencies. One day in Nineteen ninety-six his now nineteen year old daughter. Sonia found her father's address book and looked through it. She noticed it was filled with names of women she didn't recognize. Sonia started to go through the address book and call the Women. One by one. She asked them if they knew her father. And they each answered no when confronted about the address book. Robert told Sonya that he was buying used car parts from the women named in the book. Even though the women said they didn't know him however Linda to had reason to be suspicious of her husband she noticed the family was running out of money has her husband. Frequently withdrew cash from. Atm's Roberts Response. He told her to get a job. Although Robert and Linda's marriage had been loveless for years. It had stayed physical but after Robert left the service. They began to have issues in the bedroom as well. Around this time Linda recalled Robert used to talk about being impotent and wanted to take. She remembered telling him quote. It's okay you're probably tired. I'm tired and quote. Erectile dysfunction in men over forty is relatively common a two thousand thirteen study of four hundred thirty nine men in the Journal of Sexual Medicine revealed that forty percent of men over forty were affected. One day in Nineteen ninety-six Linda found Roberts pornographic magazines filled with images of orgies. She also found a piece of paper with more names. A list of people interested in group sex another time. Robert Asks Linda if she was interested in kissing another woman. Linda had accepted. That Robert was looking for sex outside of their marriage. Meanwhile his assignments at Pantry slowed to a halt so forty four year. Old Robert took a job at the Kaiser aluminum processing plant his colleagues. Were much younger than him so they often saw him. As a father figure Roberts. Kaiser colleagues described him as a family guy he often took coffee breaks with Tim Buchanan. The plant Buchanan recalled quote. He got along with all of us and quote. Robert started out at the processing. Plant is a carpenter working with carbon and the aluminum making process then. He became an overhead crane operator. Kaiser spokesperson Susan Ash said quote. By all accounts. He was a good worker. He had a very good work record and quote but the job wasn't enough for Robert. His darker side began to emerge the most dangerous straight in spokane at some point in Nineteen ninety-six Robert Lee. Yates visited the East SPRAGUE AVENUE IN SPOKANE. The area had a reputation for being crime riddled a haven for sex workers. The spokesman review reported in two thousand seventeen that throughout the years east sprague avenue head up to thirty sex workers a day occupying corners and throughout the nineteen ninety s sex workers from the avenue often ended up murdered one particular. East sprague avenue. Sex worker thirty eight year old Shannon ours. Alinsky was last seen alive. On May Twenty Seventh Nineteen ninety-six. She was a former waitress and heroin user so Alinsky was also the mother to a twenty year old daughter. Zielinski had a criminal record with drug possession and theft charges. On that day. She was drinking alcohol with a group of men near Sprague Avenue. A police officer approached the group but no arrests were made later that evening. Witnesses say they saw Zielinski leave her nearby residents for sex work. She wore a grey dress and high black boots. It's unclear how Robert Mets Alinsky or how their encounter turned deadly but on June fourteenth nineteen ninety-six. The last day of classes at the local high school. Two teenage boys decided to investigate a rotting stench at their school bus. Stop in the foothills of Mount Spokane. They had noticed the smell for a few days and set off to find the source. The teens thought the foul odor might be coming from a deer carcass or a dead raccoon. They found neither in their search. The boys reached Holcombe Road and explored the nearby brush. They saw something lying beneath low-hanging pine branches. It was the remains of a woman's body maggots infested a woman's body clad in a grey dress. A blue towel have been draped over the body barely covering it the boy spotted a pair of pantyhose a pair of white socks and one high black boot near the remains terrified. The teens ran home and contacted the police. They returned to show Spokane County. Sheriff Deputy Brent Garret the body. They had found sheriff's detective. Rick Grabs Dean examined the crime scene and theorized that the woman had been killed somewhere else since the forest area didn't show any signs of struggle or blood. The spot near Holcomb road just happened to be the killers dumping site. The woman's head had two gunshot wounds. One on the right side and one on the left police tried to take a sperm sample from the body. That could help track down the killer but the body was too decomposed. There was no. Id or wallet found on the body or nearby. Authorities used the body's fingerprints to identify her as Zilenski. Forensic Dr Neil haskell examined. The maggots founded silence. Crime scene to figure out the data for death. He studied the development of the insect which was identified as the black blow. Fly Maggot. This detail would later become crucial to the murder case. The life cycle length of the black blow. Fly Maggot is determined by temperature. Its life cycle will fully advance through all the stages if the temperature is at least around seventy degrees Fahrenheit otherwise its life cycle will be stunted based on the light stage of the maggots found in the body and the outside temperature in the days leading up to the body's discovery. Haskell determined that the bodies date of death was around may twenty sixth or twenty seventh Nineteen ninety-six this also aligned with the fact that Celeski was last seen alive around the same time among the maggots grabbing. Stein found a shell casing near where the body was found. Ballistics experts identified the ammunition used as a twenty five caliber gun. Robert used this murder weapon for several more of his victims. Grabbing Stein had been familiar with Senate ski and arrested her on. East sprague avenue several times for drug possession and theft. He was unable to recognize her face. Due to the advanced state of decomposition the detective personally tolls Linski Smother Shannon Laughlin about her death. She said she knew as soon as she saw him. Laughlin said. I always thought it was going to happen eventually. Robert wasn't identified as a suspect insulin. Skis murderer at the time. She lived a dangerous life in her east. Sprague avenue activities in addition to sex work. She had recently ripped off a notorious drug dealer who vehemently refused to take a lie detector test. Dolinsky was also a potential key witness in the case against Joe Joe Andrews a murder suspect who allegedly shot to people in Spokane in nineteen ninety four. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter a year later. Police initially believed she could have been murdered in connection with that case months later. Linda caught Robert with blood on his hands. Literally in the fall of Nineteen ninety-six Linden noticed that Robert didn't return home night. The next morning he returned home and blood covered the back of their van. Robert told her that he had run over a dog and driven it to a veterinarian. She said she believed him. It's unknown if the story had some truth to it or if the blood belonged to a still unknown human victim. Robert began amassing more victims in nineteen ninety-seven after a big blow to his ego almost exactly a year after his army retirement. Robert joined the National Guard in Washington in April nineteen ninety-seven at age forty five. His goal was to fly helicopters again. Lieutenant Colonel Rick. Patterson a National Guard spokesperson said. He came to us very very qualified. Robert trained near Tacoma once a month in order for Robert to be able to fly helicopters for the National Guard. He had to undergo a routine medical examination. He had to remain grounded in the meantime but there was a lengthy delay in processing the approval for flight. Some sources say an unknown ailment was found in Robert's examination and doctors kept him grounded from flight from April nineteen ninety seven until spring of Nineteen Ninety eight his performance evaluations stated that his morale and dedication remained high. Even though he couldn't fly but on the ground there seemed to be another side to Robert. It was during this time period when he murdered the majority of his victims next week. We'll discuss the thirteen murders. Robert committed between nineteen ninety seven and nineteen ninety eight mostly on East sprague avenue. We'll also see how a glaring clerical error involving his beloved white corvette kept police off his trail for years and during that time period this murderous pilot was free to comb the St for victims of Terror. Both on the street and in the sky there was literally nowhere to hide from. Roberts watchful eye off thanks again for tuning into serial killers. We'll be back Monday with a new episode. You can find more episodes of serial killers as well as all of podcasts. Other podcasts on Apple podcast spotify stitcher. Google play cast box tune in or your favorite podcast directory. Several of you have asked how to help the show. And if you enjoy this show the best way to help us is to leave a five star review and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast. That work. We'll see you next time. Covered killer week. Serial killers was created by Max. Cutler is a production of cutler media and is part of the podcast network it is produced by Maxon Ron Cutler sound designed by Dick Schroeder with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller Additional Production Assistance by Carly Madden and Maggie Admire. Serial killers is written by Mallory. Kara Stars Greg Poulsen and Vanessa. Richardson listeners. I hope you remember to check out the new podcast original series supernatural with Ashley Flowers every Wednesday take a deep dive into the strange and surreal to find the truth behind some of the world's most bizarre crimes. I can't get enough of this show and I hope you feel the same search for a supernatural with Ashley Flowers in the spotify APP and listen free today.

Merrythought Robert Robert Asks Linda Robert Lee Roberts murder Robert Lee Gates Washington John Taylor Yates Robert Killed Savage Linden Robert Oak Harbor Washington Robert Senior Robert Gates Junior spokane Father Robert Senior army Robert Drank Robert Live Robert Mets Robert Bottle
#586: The Story of the Skiing Soldiers of WWII

The Art of Manliness

40:39 min | 10 months ago

#586: The Story of the Skiing Soldiers of WWII

"This episode of the art of Meles podcast is brought in part by Zych him. Other cold medicines only masks symptoms but Xylocaine as clinically proven to shorten cold when taken at the first sign not only Xichang colder me safe and effective the nasal swab zinc free homeopathic and allow for gentle application in the nasal passages. You Find Xichang. Colby products at all major retailers including Walmart visit Xichang dot com slash manliness. Receive a two dollar coupon or your next Xichang purchase at Xichang dot com slash manliness. Two two two dollar coupon on your next Xichang purchase. Please Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the art of manliness. Podcast in the winter of nineteen forty. A group civilian skiers was sitting by a fire. Illogic Vermont shooting the breeze about how the US army needed. Alpine division like militaries in Europe had that conversation transformed into a concerted effort. Turn their idea to reality. The creation the army's Tenth Mountain Division which played a vital role fighting in the mountains of Italy during World War. Two I guess has written a book on these skiing. Snowboard soldiers is more. It's Herman he's history. And the author of the Winter Army World War Two Odyssey the Tenth Mountain Division Americas Alpine Warriors. It'd be a conversation discussing why the US Army didn't have an Alpine division before World War. Two and how a group of civilians years led by a man named Mini Dole spearheaded the movement to create one more than shares by the tenth bound division highly recruited from top tier colleges. How the unusual makeup of the division influenced its unique culture. We did discuss how the military figured out what this new mountain division needed in the vigorous training its members undertook hideouts of Colorado more than digs into the tens- involvement in the war whether they actually got to use the skills they trained for years to hone and we enter conversation discussing the legacy of the Tenth Mountain Division including their role in America's postwar boom in recreational scheme after shows over check out our show notes at AOL DOT is Slash Mountain Division system in. Welcome to the show. Glad to be here. She's got a book out called the winter. Army World War Two Odyssey of the Tenth Mountain Division America's elite Alpine Warriors. How did you come across this story the Tenth Mountain Division well in a very personal way when I came to Hamilton? College where I teach history some thirty years ago. One of my colleagues in a different department geology is named Don Potter and He was kind of a mentor to junior faculty and he was a avid outdoorsman. And so we. We shared that a skier and in the course of getting to know him he would tell me stories about training with Tenth Mountain Division in Colorado skiing in the rockies and then going to Italy and you never talked about the the actual fighting but after the immediately after the war and May of nineteen forty five he got leave and he went up to Mont Blanc. Any in Francey climbed from Chamonix to the summit ski down wonderful stories about his wartime experiences. And so it. Kinda planted a seed with me to this was a very interesting unit with a unique history and over the years. I written several books about mountaineering in the Himalayas and in North America and I kept bumping into guys. Who were veterans of the tents who trained in Colorado fought in Italy and would have little paragraphs describing their experiences? And then it just seemed to me. There was a bigger story to tell there and so I discovered that the Archives of the Tenth Mountain Division were in Denver the Denver Public Library and they have hundreds of collections of wartime letters and diaries and other documents from the veterans and I explored the archive and found. This is really rich and impressive history. And what do you think so? Few Americans know about their creation enroll during World War Two. Well it depends where you are in Colorado. You can get license plates that say dedicated to the memory of the Tenth Mountain Division and there are roads named for them and memorials for them and in my corner of the northeast where many of the original tense soldiers were recruited because they were recruiting skiers and people with Mountain Experience Dartmouth College loan from Chetta. Ski Team sent over a hundred of their alums into the tent. So they're they're pretty. Well remembered here but in the country as a whole in. Oh compare to say the one hundred first Airborne Division. They're less well known. Someday somebody will make a movie about some and then you know L. Bill like band brothers or whatever and I think he'll get there do acknowledgement. Well let's talk about the creation so we gotta talk about the fact that before World War Two the. Us military didn't have a mountain division. Why didn't they have mountain division well before World War Two the? Us Army never fought on a snowy mountain. There were a couple of mountain battles during the civil war but they were in Tennessee and so they weren't fighting in the snow and they didn't have any specially trained troops unlike in Europe. Where of course? A lot of the national borders are run along mountain chains appearance as the Alps and and so forth so it came naturally to Europeans. To think we need specially trained troops. Alpine troops so Germany had a long tradition of mountain troops. So did Austria sorted France. So did Italy but the US experience was quite different. One of the founders of the Tenth Mountain Division of civilian came up with the idea Charles Might Not Dole Mini Dole referred to the American Army. Right Up to before the second world. War is a tropical army because mostly it was stationed places like Hawaii or southern states or the Caribbean they had small contingent in Alaska. But they they just didn't think in terms of mountain warfare. So let's talk about this Dole Guy because the idea of a mountain amount division Amoun- an Alpine troop. It didn't start within. The military actually started with a bunch of civilians skiers sitting by a fire at a Ski Lodge Vermont. Kinda shooting the breeze. And saying hey you know. Us needs a an Alpine division. Yeah absolutely that was in the late. Winter of nineteen forty and Europe was at war. United States was not yet belligerent. But as you say these civilian skiers who had no military experience their background but they were really good skiers a couple of them were Olympic. Skiers had competed in the nineteen thirty six winter Olympics. And one of them was this guy. Many Dol- Mini Dole was an insurance executive Greenwich Connecticut. He had started skiing in the early nineteen thirties. When skiing was really in its infancy. In in the United States. There weren't many ski resorts word. Any ski lifts it was. It was a European sport that some Americans were beginning to a practice and many Dole was a kind of entrepreneurial guy he he was take charge guy and after suffering a ski accident himself on a Slope Vermont. He conceived the idea in the mid nineteen thirties of creating a rescue unit of civilian volunteers which became the National Ski Patrol System which still exists and AIDS injured skiers on resorts all across the country. So when he got hold of an idea he was he was pretty tenacious. And in that conversation in Nineteen Forty. These four skiers all civilians. Said you know we're going to get into this war and we fight in Europe. We're GONNA come up against experienced and well-trained German Italian Alpine troops. And we don't have anything comparable we need to come up with a comparable unit and so many dol- start at the top. He wrote to President Roosevelt. Who actually responded he got in touch with with the army with General Marshall. The army chief of staff and he got rebuffed several times. I mean who is the civilian but in the end he prevailed and persuaded the army to create the Eighty Seventh Mountain Infantry Regiment which was the colonel of what grew into the US Army's Tenth Mountain Division and they began training in November nineteen forty one at Fort Lewis in Washington State? So just a very few days before Pearl Harbor and so what was I mean so they? This was completely new to the military. How did they figure out? Look how what skills doesn't Alpine soldier need. How do we train the guys? How do they developed the criteria for the curriculum for that? Well they again. They relied largely on civilian advice on many Dole on the National Ski Patrol System. One of the extraordinary things about the Tenth Mountain Division unique really in the history of the. Us military is about a civilian agency. The National Ski Patrol System was in charge of recruiting for it. Many Dole's belief was that it was easier to make soldiers out of skiers and to make skiers out of soldiers that is to say you wanted to recruit guys who already had the basic skills who who knew their way around out doors in cold weather. Who were skiers or mountaineers are park rangers or lumberjacks or you know a range of occupations but many of them were recruited out of the very few schools in the country colleges and universities that had ski teams at the time so dartmouth as I mentioned and Williams College University of Oregon University of Washington Colorado University. They provided a steady stream of recruits. Some graduates many of them. Just nineteen or twenty dropping out of college to join this new elite unit because they wanted to apply the skills the abilities that they learned as civilians in recreational pursuit to their duties as as soldiers when and as you know the book because a lot of the people this guys who when when joined the eighty seventh were from college because the colleges had ski teams like the eighty-seven had one of the most educated group of soldiers out of all the military in the United States. Yeah it was an unusual unit and the subsequent regiments the eighty-six in the eighty fifth which made up the division. Same thing was true. The army gave every incoming recruit basic intelligence test. And I forget what the numbers were but if you scored above a certain number you could apply for officer candidate school and typically in a regular division something like ten percent of the recruits would would be able to do so but in the tenth mountain division at random more like forty percent or fifty percent who could have gone off to Fort Benning or the other places really trained officers but most of them chose not to do so that didn't apply for officer candidate school because they knew if they all went off not too many of them would be able to come back to the Tenth Mountain Division because how many second lieutenants can use so they would essentially be transferring themselves out of the mountain troops so instead they stayed put and as a result. You had many very qualified. Corporals and sergeants in the ranks of the Tenth Mountain Division. This a what was the culture like because this is sort of like the airborne division. Where was sort of seen as an elite unit but also like you said they're really educated from mostly from Ivy League Schools Outdoorsy type guys? Some I imagine that the regiments in the division developed unique culture in the US military. Yeah I think it did have a unique culture as you say for one thing the so the the the recruits knew how to ski and then spent a lot of time finding their way in across mountains in very cold weather but their officers. That was less true of or they're they're NCO's what the army calls cadre the experienced soldiers who are shipped into a new unit around which you develop the unit had to be instructed in skiing and other basics and the people doing the instruction were often in nineteen year old privates so you have a nineteen year old private instructing a thirty year old major have ski. The power dynamics are are are kind of different. It was a great deal of self confidence in this unit. They had a lot of unit cohesion. A lot of initiative precisely because of those dynamics and they were all volunteers. You didn't get drafted into the Tenth Mountain Division later on. During the fighting there would be soldiers transferred in who had no special mountain training. But the guys who trained in Colorado and then were sent to Italy by and large were already experienced before they joined the army in their basic skills. They were training in the mountains. And so a lot of what can army training consisted of in a basic drill out going to the firing range and so forth. You couldn't do in January so these these new recruits would show up at Camp Hale in Colorado near Leadville and they'd start skiing immediately they'd start their specialized training before they did their basic training. I mean they were trained trained to salute and so forth but the basic training often had to wait until warm weather returned. Yeah a lot of some of the letters that you quote in the book a lot of the guys talking about. It's kind of like I'm on vacation. It's kind of Nice. Just get to go see. I'm getting paid to go skiing. Eight hours a day. I mean they. They cycled through their ski training. They did beginning ski training and more Advanced Ski Training. But when they when they trained. And they're up. You know at twelve thousand feet and on deep powder snow. They were skiing five days a week. Eight hours a day with some of the best ski instructors in the World Ski champions the Coach of the Dartmouth Ski team. Walter progress among others if you wanted to become an expert skier the best place to do it. In nineteen forty three was as a soldier at Camp Hale and then on the weekends I mean look where they are there near Aspen. For EXAMPLE THEY THEY. They'd go off and they go skiing recreationally so they continue their training even when they were training. The comparison with airborne is interesting another elite unit all volunteers specialized uniforms and so forth but no members of the one hundred first airborne or I doubt very many members of the hundred and first airborne had ever jumped out of an airplane before they became paratroopers they became you know. Well trained paratroopers but that was once. They joined the army as opposed to the Tenth Mountain. Guys who are already coming in many of them with superior skills in in their in their military specialty when go back this idea of Dean self-reliant this idea of improvisation? The I think many Dole talked about the Finnish army that he was impressed by their like. That's what he liked about the Alpine soldiers. They're fighting off. The Russians voted improvise their grit their self reliance and he wanted that same sort of culture within an Alpine division. The United States. We don't really remember the finish war any more. But the before Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union so union went to war with neighboring Finland. Trying to acquire territory sort of to the west of Leningrad set for a buffer zone and the Red Army would outnumbered the fins and was better equipped than the fins at it was tied to the roads. And He. So you'd have these big lumbering columns of Red Army soldiers their tanks and their trucks and whatnot and his Finnish troops would come out of the woods and they ski in an ambush these Leninsky off and they couldn't be pursued so any Dole was quite impressed by that. Yeah and the other thing I thought was interesting about the Tenth Mountain. Division talking about the United States is the first time ever dealing with Alpine soldiers. They had to develop new equipment. Right for these guys. They didn't because like you said they were the military. That time was geared towards the tropics. So what sort of innovations the military make to get these guys Outfitted and equipped right. They developed light camouflage uniforms. Of course you want to blend in with snow they developed skis with metal edges for better control new kinds of boots. That could double as climbing boots and escape routes with a new new soul. Which if you buy a pair of hiking boots today it'll have a vibrant soul. As opposed to the old hobnailed boots so a lot of the equipment that would later be dumped his army surplus and would equip the next generation of skiers and climbers was developed during the war. Nylon ropes up until World War Two climbing. Ropes had been made out of hemp Manila and they were heavy. They picked up snow. They've you fell while climbing with one wrapped around your rib-cage we're GonNa Bruise your ribs. They have no give so that they were all of these Technological innovations that were important both for attends during the war but were important after the war in terms of outdoor winter recreational industry. And besides skiing. What else did these guys training well? They skied all winter and they climbed all summer. Camp Hale is in a High Alpine valley in the rockies. It's about nine thousand feet. It's surrounded by walls where you learn basic rock climbing abilities and they went on maneuvers course in in the mountains both in the winter and in the summer and had to learn how to keep especially in the winter hat learn how to avoid frostbite how to pitch a tent in the snowboard or build an Igloo which they preferred to do because it was actually warmer. Had to prepare your food how to get supplies up by mules. You couldn't bring jeeps or trucks up into the hills so as a really different approach to fighting and the army was was suspicious of even after they created a tense They didn't know what to do with them. Generalizing our turned down the the tenths. The he was being offered different divisions for use in western Europe and he looked at their table of organization and saw all those mules and their weapons were lighter. You couldn't carry the heaviest artillery up into the mountains and he. He didn't want any part of them which is funny. Because the first fighting in Europe to place in Italy and Italy's very mountainous they could have used them at Monte Cassino. For example in the winter of nineteen forty three and nineteen forty four but they were just too strange and it was a long time before they got into combat which bothered them because they weren't just there to ski in Colorado. They were there to to fight in the war and their brothers were already in combat and they wanted to join them and so over the course of nineteen forty two eighteen forty three nineteen forty four. Many of them transferred out some transferred into airborne some transferred into military intelligence. They wanted to get into the fight but the army didn't give them a chance to do. So we're gonNA take a quick break for your words. More sponsors hiring is challenging. But there's one place ago hiring a simple fast and smart. Ziprecruiter credible co-founder Gretchen whitmer experienced. How challenging hiring can be after unsuccessfully searching for a new game artist to grow with Education Tech Company but then she switched ziprecruiter inside immediate difference. And you can't by signing up for free at ZIPRECRUITER DOT com slash manliness. Ziprecruiter is independent candidates. Finding you it finds them for you and using ziprecruiter screening questions to fill. 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Genius we'll always get the future wrong. Better get life insurance right and now back to the show and while they weren't being you know put into battle like they still. They captured the imagination of the American public. They just thought it was. I mean I think today people still think it's cool like a soldier who skis. Right is a really cool idea. Yeah there there were movies made of them. Feature Film Documentary Movies magazine Articles Celebrating them as a real he-man remember. Why your titles of a magazine Article Said Real he-man in the mountains? They looked great. They would they would do this kind of synchronized skiing which was useless in combat but when you filmed it it looked terrific zero especially conserve skiing in the Colorado Mountains. And they're cutting through that deep powder snow and It was a very glamorous image but they weren't in the war is but they were still training as you said they went on these maneuvers while there in Camp Hill and Colorado which basically this camp that they the military built pretty much overnight. Yup really fast and these maneuvers was skiing but these are really tough. Tough maneuvers tough training. Yeah because you're up there in the mountains. It's easy to get lost. You might not get resupplied. You have to deal with extreme cold. It's it's It's a challenge and there was one particular set of maneuvers. The entire division went on not just one of the regiments was called D. series were division series in the spring of nineteen forty four and hundreds of men were hospitalized for Frostbite and thereafter. The the joke in the Tenth Mountain Division even when they were in heavy combat in Italy in the spring of Nineteen. Forty five was well. This isn't great but it's better than D series. That was Kinda interesting kind of point you made. Throughout the book was the training they received in Campell with a lot more extreme than the the climbs in the elevations they would actually experience in Italy. Right I mean when you're doing mountain warfare what you're fighting for control of the passes not the summit's summit doesn't count you want highground but you can control the passes. You can control all movement through the mountains and the passes in Italy for example. The Brenner Pass. That leads from Italy. To Austria is less than five thousand feet high and their training at twice that altitude so into all the other difficulties you have to add in altitude sickness. They acclimatized to it. But by the time you're going to be shipped out you're taking a train across the country in the ten days in a boat by time you're going to get to the battlefield into the mountains. You're going to have lost that acclimatization. So in retrospect we're all brilliant. In retrospect it would have made more sense to train at a a lower elevation than they actually did so before they got to Italy. Some members of the division got a taste for battle. This was I didn't know about this battle. This was this is the one of the few battles that happened on American soil was in Alaska Kisco. what happened to the mountain troops there? Well the Japanese round the time of the battle of midway occupied too. Small volcanic islands unoccupied no population. They're called a at two and Kisco and some people felt or feared that this was going to be the prelude to a Japanese invasion of Alaska. Or even the Pacific northwest. Now there was no way in the world that would ever happen. But they couldn't take that chance so the army sent in flatland troops to take back at two and it was a bloody battle not on the scale of Iwojima but still a lot of soldiers died but a lot of soldiers were knocked out of action because they did not take care of their feet. They've got trench foot swept cold. It got frostbite but they captured at two about when it came time to turn their attention to the next and remaining island. Kisco the army said Oh well we do have these mountain troops. Let's let's try them. So the eighty seventh one of the three regiments was shipped from Camp Hale to California for amphibious. Training did not obviously not been part of their training while they're in the mountains and then shipped off to Alaska and they classic World War. Two landing seen on occupied island. They get off the landing craft apprehensively under the beaches. And nothing's happening. Nobody's shooting at them now. Of course the the Japanese could simply have retreated to the interior waited for the Americans to come to them and so The soldiers of the tenth and there were other units and there was Canadian soldiers there as well. They advance their way up to the Ridge. Line of this volcanic island. It gets dark. The weather in the Bering Strait is the worst in the world. Clouds swirl in visibility is cut to zero and these these green troops who are on the alert hyper alert imagined that they see movement or maybe they they see movement but it's not a Japanese moving and they start to shoot one person starts to shoot them a whole platoon starts to shoot and and nobody can see where the enemies coming from. But they're they're convinced they're under attack and in the morning when the sun comes up There are no Japanese bodies but there are two dozen American and Canadian bodies and Almost all of them are from the Tenth Mountain Division so the unit is bloodied. They're no longer green soldiers but in the worst possible way they killed their brothers in in friendly fire and what happened when they went back to Camp Hale. Well they they felt they had something to prove. And I mean young men are cruel can be cruel and other soldiers Mocked up and call them buddy killers and similar names and a lot of them transferred out of the the Tenth Mountain. They were so demoralized. Not only were they not being used you know where they should have been used in the fighting in Europe but they were sent off on on this tragic fool's errand into the Bering Strait so the tenth finally gets called up to Europe. When did that happen? Where do they get sent to right? They had transferred from Camp Hale in the Rockies to camp swift which is in Texas near Austin and some of them feared that they were going to be converted into a Flatland Division that the their their mountain training was gonna come to nothing because while Senator Texas but there was a change of heart in Italy allied commanders about the usefulness of having specially trained mountain troops and so finally in November they get the summons to they don't know where they're being shipped but they know they're going to be transferred to a war zone and they get a new commander major-general Hayes Medal of honor winner from the First World War. Who is a very aggressive and creative? The commander the perfect man to lead an inexperienced still inexperienced division into battle so at the end of December and the beginning of January December. Forty four January forty five seventy five years ago there. They are shipped to Newport News. Virginia where they board troopships and spend a week or ten days crossing the Atlantic and the Mediterranean and disembark in Naples and from there. They're they're trucked up to the front line the last mountainous line of German resistance. The Germans have been putting up a stout defence for a year plus in Italy from one mountain. A redoubt to the next and they're at their last mountain redoubt which is called the Gothic line and runs through the northern a penance so florence which had been captured by the allies. The previous fall is to the South and Bologna which is still in German. Hands is is to the north and for the allies to complete clearing of Italy from German. Control they're gonNA have to break out of the mountains and break into the Po Valley Poe Valley a big open area includes Milan and leads up to the the Alps. And the Brenner Pass. Once you're in the Po Valley all the allied advantages of armor and airpower can be brought to bear with as they can't in the mountains. You can't fight a tank battle in the mountains. So it's going to be the tenths job as the spearhead of the entire allied offensive in the winter spring of nineteen forty five to clear the way to break through out of the northern penance into Po Valley. That's precisely what they do. And what were the major engagements they had during that during that stint? Well we're coming up to again the seventy fifth anniversary of the signature battles of the Tenth Mountain Division. Which was seizing. The high ground on to mountain eminences one called Ridge and the other called Mount Belvedere Mount Belvedere several mountains linked to it and I. They went up River Ridge at night in February in the dark untested troops over steep icy trails. Where they're rock climbing skills that they honed in. Colorado really came into use and the Germans were so confident that it was a steep cliff that that nut. They couldn't be attacked from that side of the mountain that they didn't posted guards. It didn't bother laying any mines and put down any barbed wire and so these Seven hundred fifty or so soldiers in the assault team from the Tenth Mountain. Division achieved complete surprise against the Germans. They captured the ridge line at the cost of one man. Wounded drove the Germans from the high ground the Germans counterattacked. Which is what they always did. And there were more casualties in the days to come but in their very first time in battle all of that training and all of that sense of initiative and and unit cohesion really played out well and it was a very significant achievement because it removes the Germans from a place where they could observe the attack on neighboring Mount Belvedere and so the next night on February twentieth the rest of the division went in this time they were the Germans knew they were coming and they had prepared the ground well with mine fields and and artillery sheen guns zeroed in on on the main routes the mountain and so it was a more costly attack but still in five days. They seized three mountain tops military planners at assumed it was gonNA take two weeks to clear the Germans off and again that that same combination of of training and a lawn and unit cohesion. Serve the tenth very well and and set up The advanced that was gonNA take place a month later breaking out of the opinions and into the PO. Did they actually do skiing during that time? Very little I mean here. You have ski troops and somebody decided. They didn't need skis skis. All went to a warehouse in Boston where they were later. Seoul as Army Surplus. They scrounged some skis and sent out some patrols to scattered. German positions are tried. Take a prisoner in those weeks before. Riva Ridge and Mount Belvedere about the thing about skiing in the pennines. It's you're not skiing deep powder snow in the rockies. You can ski pretty quietly. The powder masks the sound coach but when you're skiing through corn snow that is snow is much lower elevations three or four thousand feet. Elevation Corn Snow freezes and melts and freezes and you have ice crystals in it and it goes scratched rich so they found in the dark of night. They're approaching a German outpost in their their skis are giving their position away and the Germans were firing. They don't have to see them. They're firing direction of the sound and so after one or two experiences like that. They abandoned skis altogether. They weren't practical for the kind of terrain and the kind of fighting that they were going to do so. The Ski Troopers didn't ski but the skiing was important. Because again that sense of a law that came from being specialized troops elite troops and also because they were tremendously fit. Wins being of the idea that the skis they had the military bought the soldiers that didn't get shipped there like a lot of the winter equipment that the military developed for these guys didn't get shipped over there either that's correct and It all gets dumped on the civilian market in late nineteen forty five thousand nine hundred forty six and it feeds a new interest which the tenth partially helped create in skiing a sport and in addition many of the tenth veterans. Some two thousand all told found employment in the ski industry as as instructors. They became retailers of ski equipment and a number of them actually created those modern resorts. Aspen had been asleep. Little things mining town had a ski slope before the war but it was tenth veterans who came and turned it into one of the Premier Ski Resorts in the World Vale. Also Colorado was founded by Tense Mountain veterans in the late fifties. And there's a statue of a ski trooper in the Center of Vail to remind visitors. Just just who was responsible for this wonderful ski resort the longest ski run at At Vail and the most difficult is called Riva Ridge and there's another skier on there. It's called Minis Mile after many Dole. The civilian who suggested the creation of the mountain troops and so The the tenth had is enormous impact during the war but they would also have an impact in a different field after the war and besides the big impact they had on American culture making skiing a popular pastime what influenced the Tinsel Yvonne the US military while the tencent's disbanded in a November of nineteen forty five and that the army has some very specialized units. But not on the division level that are trained for for cold weather fighting. It's only in nineteen eighty four. Eighty five at the tents is reconstituted as Tense Mountain Division Light Infantry and they're not ski troops in the sense that the the tenth was during the war that that's not part of the regular training but they are trained in fighting in cold weather on rough terrain in exactly the kind of fighting the. Us Army has been doing for the last several decades in Iraq and in Afghanistan the Tenth Mountain Division today which is based at Fort Drum which is just a few miles down the road from Hamilton. College right teach in upstate. New York is the most deployed unit in the US army and has been for decades. In fact I gave a book talk there. In December is great privilege to do so on base to an audience of Tenth Mountain soldiers who had just gotten their orders that this particular battalion had gotten their orders for deployment to Afghanistan. And I imagined by this time. Most of them have been transferred there and so they have. It's not quite the same. Unit was during World War Two but but they have a great interest in their predecessors from that generation and speaking of which one of the Visitors at Fort Drum that they came to my talk was himself a ninety five year old veteran of the tents and several other talks I gave touring and Colorado Speaking Locally Tenth Mountain Veterans Ninety. Five one of them was one hundred. One years old came to mytalk which was of course a great honor. So usually I'm the one signing books if these talks for others but I had these guys signed my copy of winter army and did these guys. Did they fight it? These these battles you talked about in the book yeah. One of them visited me in Boulder. Colorado lives there in a retirement communities and Hugh Evans. He was sergeant. Who almost singlehandedly captured. One of the hilltops in the fighting for Mount Belvedere for which was awarded a Silver Star and he plays a prominent role in the books. So again you know I author couldn't ask for a greater honor than for one of the heroes of his book to to actually show up and and take part in the conversation. We'll Moore's it's been a great conversation. Where can people go to learn more about the book and your work? It's on Amazon. It's last time I looked number one best-seller in downhill skiing. Which is something. And you can find it. Any number of outlets barnes and noble and so forth or in Colorado in just about any bookstore. So yeah check. Those up will Moore's instrument. Thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure. Okay my pleasure to my. It was more instrument. He's the author of the book. The Winter Army Seville Amazon Dot Com and bookstores everywhere. Checker show notes at a Web dot is slash mountain division refined links to resources. Ring delve deeper in this topic. Well that wraps up another edition of the PODCAST checker which said at Artif- Manley's dot com and find our podcast. Archive will thousands of articles written over the years. Also if you'd like to enjoy at free ever said the podcast you can do so institure. Premium PREMIUM DOT com sign up use code manliness at checkout to get a month free trial once you're signed up downloads trap android. Irs You can start enjoying ad free episode podcasts. And You haven't done already appreciative. Take one minute is review and Apple. Podcasts or stitcher helps out a lot. If you've done that already thank you. Please consider sharing the show with a friend or family member who think we get something out of it or would enjoy it as always thinking you for the continued support until next time. This is Brad. Mackay reminding all listening when podcast put. Would you've heard into action ahead?

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S3: Best of 2019:  "The Spokane Serial Killer" Pt. 1: Robert Lee Yates Jr.

Parcast Presents: Summer of '69

41:54 min | 1 year ago

S3: Best of 2019: "The Spokane Serial Killer" Pt. 1: Robert Lee Yates Jr.

"Welcome to park has presents the best of two thousand nineteen we have for you. The most requested episodes of serial killers is from this year. For more great episodes. You may have missed subscribed to serial killers. Listen free on spotify and anywhere. You listen to podcasts us. Due to the graphic nature of these killers crimes listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder murder and assault that. Some people may defensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen friends and neighbors knew Robert leyritz as an average joe he was quiet and unassuming just some acquaintances in his native spokane Washington. Yates was so unremarkable that they they didn't remember him at all. Yates was a decorated army helicopter pilot. He was a father to five children. He enjoyed working with his cars which included his beloved white corvette. He lived a quiet unassuming life or so. Everyone thought. It soon became clear that despite Roberts smiled matter nature he has sinister side from nineteen seventy five until one thousand nine hundred ninety eight. He murdered at least seventeen people around Washington Washington state. Soon this unassuming average Joe became spokane's most notorious resident. Hi I'm Greg Paulson. And this is serial killers on the PODCAST network every Monday. We dive into the minds and madness of serial killers today. We're going to take a deep dive into the life of Robert Lee. Yates a convicted murderer. You're who killed sixteen women and one man in spokane Washington. I'm here with my co host. Vanessa Richardson Hi. Everyone at podcast. We're grateful for for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoyed today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening? It really does help us. We also now have merch head to podcast dot com slash merch for more information. Robert Lee Gates was a former prison guard army veteran and father of five children but he harbored a more vicious side during the ten year period between nineteen eighty eight and nineteen ninety eight. Yates Gates murdered at least fifteen sex workers in spokane. He picked up the women in His van had sex with them and shot them in the head in two thousand Elson Forty eight year old. Yates who was charged with thirteen counts of murder and received a sentence of four hundred and eight years in jail in two thousand two. He was convicted addicted to additional murders was sentenced to death by lethal injection after a two thousand eighteen Washington State Supreme Court ruling. The death penalty was abolished just to the state that his sentence was commuted to life in prison. In this week's episode. We'll examine Robert's early life in Oak Harbor Washington as well as his early victims next week. We'll discuss the rest of his spokane victims. His arrest and murder trials before Robert was even born. Iron murder was part of his family's history in Nineteen forty-five Roberts Father Robert Senior lived a seemingly. Quiet life in Van Buren Tennessee Z.. With his parents fifty-three-year-old Novella Johnson. Yates and fifty five year old. John Taylor Yates. John worked as a farmer. And as such wasn't home for long stretches of time this put most of the domestic and child rearing pressures on Novella who was raising their eleven children October Twelfth Wealth Nineteen forty-five Robert Senior was a young boy sleeping in his upstairs bedroom. He awoke to loud noises downstairs and went to investigate. Robert Robert Senior saw his father lying on the floor of a bedroom bleeding from his head. Novella sat calmly and quietly in another room as if nothing had happened. And but something did clearly transpire between the couple. Novella had killed John with a double edged. Axe Medical examiners found that John Yates had four wounds on his head and face including one that spanned the entire right side of his head and penetrated the brain. John was taken taken to the hospital and died of his injuries. Six days later on October. Eighteenth nineteen forty-five it's unknown. What prompted Novella to kill her husband that night police arrested Novella and charged her with felonious assault? She was released from Warren County jail on a three thousand dollar bond. There are no records. It's to show whether or not she was convicted of the murder. She was sent to a mental hospital for unknown and unrecorded reasons where she remained for seven years. Meanwhile Little Robert Senior grew up and married. A woman named Anna may seven years after his grandmother killed his grandfather. Robert Gates is junior was born on May twenty seventh nineteen fifty two in Oak Harbor Washington. He was the second child to Robert. Senior and animates. Yates was a quiet child. well-mannered well behaved and well. Meaning he didn't make any trouble in Oak Harbor. A town on Washington's would be island with striking views of the Olympic mountains in the Pacific Ocean. Roberts senior was a religious man and a very involved member of the seventh day adventist church seventh day. Adventists Tisza is a form of Protestant Christianity that believes in the forthcoming return of Jesus Christ to Earth. Unlike most Christian denominations seventh day adventists observe the Sabbath on Saturdays. They avoid meat drugs and alcohol Robert. Seniors Local Church congregation was made up of. About one hundred people pe- he took his participation seriously. He wanted to pass along his values to his son. Robert Junior grew up with a close bond to his father. His father coached coached. Little League Baseball team. Robert Junior was specifically interested in pitching. They attended church together and Roberts sang in the church choir. They hunted deer ear. Went fishing and hike together. Often Roberts close friend Al Ghamdi said there was a lot of respect in that family. They were the type of people you'd want as your neighbor Labor from the outside young Robert Lee. Yates was a picture perfect kid but despite this there was a dark stain on Robert's childhood at age six Robert Lived next door to a family with an eleven year old son. It's unclear if the eleven year old and Robert were friends but either way the eleven year old allegedly sexually sexually abused Robert at age six. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology. Here just to remind her. She's not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist but that she has done a lot of research for the show. Thanks Greg according to Dr Suzanne Babble. MFT thirty five percent of children. who were sexually abused? Grow up to sexually abuse others. Victims of sexual abuse are also much more likely to develop unusual or hyper sexual behavior and repeat the pattern of abuse. Yes in some way as we will see the sexual nature of Robert Gates is crimes are consistent with this behavior and could give us some insight on what motivated him. Burder has grew up Roberts. Neighbors and Oak Arbor knew him as a hard working young man. He frequently mowed lawns around the neighborhood. Pumped gas at the local gas station and harvested peas with the farmer to earn one dollar. An eight cents an hour but according to some sources Robert had a dark side even rendering childhood at one point he began hurting and torturing innocent animals at age eleven. Robert may have set fire to a house but he was not formally elite charged or accused of the arson in high school. Robert was a pitcher for the Oak. Harbor wildcats Varsity baseball team. His former teammate Harry. Ferrier are remembered Robert as an average Joe saying he could throw a fastball with precision. He was kind of quiet a few of his. Oh carber high. School classmates mates and teachers remembered Robert as quiet student who turned into Simon's on time Robert also played football briefly but quit during his sophomore year in in nineteen sixty eight. He had a steady girlfriend for most of high school. He wasn't just an athlete. Robert was also part of the school choir and talented writer. His classmates recalled today when he read a sonnet to his English class allowed. They thought it was a work written by Shakespeare but Robert had written the sonnet himself during his senior year in nineteen seventy eighteen year old. Robert's girlfriend moved away so he skipped the Oh carber homecoming dance instead he invited aided close friend Al Gaudy over to his home to play Canasta a card game God. He remembered quote. He didn't smoke and he didn't drink. We didn't give into peer here pressure. That was nar thing. Our thing was hunting and fishing and hiking and quote Robert Godley bonded over their common career. Aspirations they wanted to become doctors. Biologists or Park Rangers. Together they went on a sixteen hour backpacking trip with the goal of catching a twenty inch. Trout out the fish was famous for living in an isolated lake in Washington's cascade mountains in addition to wanting to catch the trout Robert was fascinated by eagles. Birds flying flying overhead in the mountains and dreamed of flying himself after graduation. Robert and Gaudy attended Skagit Valley Community College together. While there he began dating an eighteen year old classmate named Shirley neulander he graduated with an associate of Arts degree in general studies in Nineteen Seventy Wendy to at age. Twenty Robert Neil under got married on August twenty seventh one thousand nine hundred seventy two and moved to the city of college place together to attend Walla Walla College. Robert chose that specific school because it was run by seventh day adventists at Walla Walla. He pursued pre med studies. But Robert's first marriage didn't last long in nineteen seventy four Shirley moved out of their college place. Apartment returned home and asked for a divorce. Her reasons reasons for leaving the marriage are unknown but twenty two year old. Robert didn't contest to request and moved on quickly. Robert began dating Walla Walla College alleged classmate Linda brewer almost immediately after his split from Shirley Linda soon became pregnant in July. Nineteen seventy four. They got married in a small small ceremony but there was one problem. The marriage took place before his divorced to Shirley was finalized. Robert and Linda's marriage was considered invalid. Right because he was still married to someone else but Linda didn't care she was in love and for the time being that was all that mattered but about a month after their wedding heading roberts new pseudo bride began noticing that her husband had some odd habits. One day she found a whole he drilled in the attic when to realize allies the whole looked into their next door neighbor's apartment Robert had made the hole so we could watch the couple in the apartment. Next door have sex perturbed. Linda Linda left Robert but they quickly reconciled and resumed their relationship a month later. It's unclear if Robert continued his voyeurism in the attic. Shirley and Robert Roberts divorce became final in August. One thousand nine hundred seventy four a few months later in December nineteen seventy-four. Linda gave birth to a daughter named Sasha. The birth of their first child motivated Robert to drop out of college and find a steady job. Linda's father had worked as a corrections officer at the Washington State Penitentiary in in Walla Walla for eighteen years and Robert decided to join him. He became a guard at the prison in July. Nineteen eighteen. Seventy five though this career would be short. Lived some sources say twenty three year old Robert worked at the prison for three to four months and others say he. He lasted up to six months before he quit either way. Linda's family were confused by Roberts sporadic behavior. It didn't help that. Robert gave no explanation for quitting thing in fact his real motive for distancing himself from the area wouldn't be on earth for over a decade Robert had begun to kill. Oh we'll learn of Roberts first victims in a moment now back to the story in nineteen seventy five Robert Lee. Yates resigned from the Washington state penitentiary suddenly and without explanation but the real reason for his resignation may have been related to his first two known murders on on July thirteenth. Nineteen seventy five twenty one year old. Patrick Oliver and twenty two year old Susan. Savage were too close friends spending some time together Mill Creek Park Mark in Walla Walla. Oliver and savage had good reputations in the town they were both well liked top students who came from good families. He had just returned from studying studying. In France. While savage recently graduated from Washington State University. The friends met up for a picnic in Mill Creek Park and even went for a swim in the lake. Mill Creek Park now known as Mill Creek Dam and Bennington Lake is a popular spot in Walla Walla. The sprawling six hundred acre recreational area has many any hiking trails. According to The Washington trails association is also a popular spot for burgers bikers hunters runners and anglers the day. Robert Gates was in the same area for hunting target practice. It's not clear why. or how but Robert Approached the coupled sometime during his target practice activities Walla Walla County. Sheriff Mike Humphries told the Walla Walla Union bulletin quote. I think he went up there to target shoot like he usually did. He came across these people and it happened and quote. He Shot Oliver three times. The last bullet was especially fatal. It appears to Oliver's heart propert left savage with two fatal gunshot wounds one in her shoulder and the other in her head behind her left ear. Robert took most of the clothes off. Savage's unconscious body and placed on top of Oliver in a sexual manner. Robert covered both dead bodies with a pile of brush. Josh and army sleeping bag and tire killer sometimes position the bodies of their victims in suggestive ways in order to send a message author and investigative get historian. Peter vronsky elaborated on this in his book. Serial killers the method and madness of monsters. They're two ways. A killer could position a body not post mortem the first is called staging when the killer arranges the corpses in a way meant to confuse or mislead investigators but if the victims uh-huh are arranged in a sexual or perverse manner that fulfils the killers on fantasies. It's called posing considering that Oliver and savages bodies were hidden from plain plain sight. Robert may have been posing the corpses to act out a perverse fantasy for his own pleasure. According to a two thousand four study in the Journal of Forensic excites killers. WHO POSE BODIES WANNA shock anyone who discovers the bodies of the victims? The study also found that female victims tend to be the ones who are staged staged posed or left in some kind of unusual position after being murdered posed bodies can indicate that sexual assault had occurred and that the manner of death was particularly hands on for the killer. Usually victims who are left in an unusual position have been stabbed bound or bludgeoned Robert. Bert killed savage at point blank range. which also denotes a certain hands-on closeness the next day? Oliver's brother Dan and his uncle Frank Munn notice taller and savage. Didn't return home the night before Dan and Mon went out looking for them at Mill Creek. Dan recalled I saw funny arrangement of debris near the edge the creek by foam them. Dan inman drove straight to the local police station to report. What they found in the park? Police investigated the murder. It didn't turn up any leads at the time. It was also unclear if Oliver savage had been sexually assaulted in the attack but Robert would never be a suspect in the murder he would only be convicted of it after confessing to it over a decade later. In fact Robert was nowhere near the murders at the time. He had already already distanced himself from the nearby prison and found new employment as a movie theater. Usher sometime later in. Nineteen seventy five. He and Linda moved moved back to Roberts Hometown of Oak Harbor likely because his mother had been battling cancer shortly after arrival. twenty-three-year-old Robert Lee. Yates took took a job as a janitor at Whidbey Island hospital where his mother worked as the housekeeping supervisor in July nineteen seventy-six Robert and Linda through a second in wedding and were officially married. It took place in Oak Harbor with Robert's parents as witnesses. Linda officially took Roberts last name but she joined join the family just as another. Yates passed on on October. Ninth Nineteen Seventy six. Robert's mother Anna May died of cancer Robert and his friend Godley were pallbearers. At her funeral Gotti claimed that the death didn't affect Robert too much because Robert Anatomy didn't have a close relationship. He told the Seattle Times Times quote. Boys Aren't attached to their mothers. Like girl czar. He doesn't throw US over the edge end quote sometime in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven. Robert became a father father again when Linda gave birth to their second child Sonya on October Fourth Nineteen seventy. Seven Robert Enlisted in the US army at age twenty five five he was older than the other recruits but proceeded to train at basis in Missouri Texas and Massachusetts in one thousand nine hundred eighty twenty eight year. Old Robert was chosen goes into train as an army pilot fulfilling his childhood dream of flying in order to become an army pilot. Individuals or selected for special training called Warrant Officer Candidate School Roberts Training for this took place at Fort Rucker Alabama. The army's aviation centre in July nineteen eighty before he was allowed to fly I plains he started his training with helicopters. Robert became a highly skilled helicopter pilot. His colleagues called him an excellent pilot. Knowledgeable and safety conscious from nineteen eighty until nineteen. eighty-four Robert was stationed in Hanau Germany located about fifteen miles from Frankfurt. Linda Ed. His daughters remained in Washington but Robert visited the family while on leave during one of Robert's trips home Robin Linda expanded their family during in this time Linda gave birth to two more children their third daughter amber in nineteen eighty and their fourth daughter. Michelle who was born in Nineteen eighty-four. The Gates family now had four daughters. Sasha Amber Sonia and Michelle but despite their large family Robert and Linda seemed happy to keep their lives separate. She raised their daughters while Robert served in the military. He rarely mentioned his wife to his army colleagues and many didn't even know he was married even when he was back in the states Robert and Linda spent time apart in nineteen eighty-four thirty two year old. Robert became an instructor at Fort Rucker Alabama. uh-huh for various ages training battalions. He was an instructor pilot for the. Oh fifty eight. The Kiowa which was used as the army's Primary Observation Survey Shin helicopter at the time. Shortly after in Nineteen eighty-five Linda. Move back to Walla Walla with their children and did not depend on Roberts financial support report. Linda was happy for a bit but she found it hard to support herself and her daughters on her own. Linda said quote. I loved the separation but the girls were pleading to be with their dad. They didn't want to be poor and not have anything anymore and quote so Linda Reunited with Robert It in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight in July of that year while Robert Lee. Yates was on leave. He returned home to Oak Harbor. Meanwhile in nearby Skagit County twenty-three-year-old Stacy Elizabeth Hawn was working as a sex worker on July seventh nine thousand nine hundred eighty eight thirty six year old Robert Encountered Hawn presumably presumably while she was looking for customers. It's not clear. Exactly what happened during their encounter but months later on December twenty eighth nineteen eighty-eight authorities. I found Hans remains outside Mount Vernon she had been shot once in the head at first police believed that Han was a victim of Gary. Leon ridgway the Green River killer. He was another active serial killer who targeted sex workers in Washington state at the time however Robert confessed to murdering Hawn years years later and it would play a big role in his trial. Sometime in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight. The army re-stationed Robert in Germany. This time in Gulping again about one hundred and nine hundred miles from Eunuch. He remained there for three years. We don't know for sure if Robert Killed again in Germany but at present German authorities forties consider him a potential suspect in a string of twenty six unsolved homicides his involvement in those homicides is still being investigated in one thousand nine hundred nine. Robert's wife Linda who was still in the states gave birth to kyle the couple's first son and fifth child overall Robert Favored his son and began to neglect his four daughters. Sasha Sonya amber and Michelle. It's unknown in what ways he treated his son differently only then his daughters but it's usually typical for parents to view sons and daughters differently. Dr Glenn Wilson Professor in Gender and sexual psychology told the mirror that the fact that men and their sons share y chromosomes which carry more genetic material than women's double x chromosomes could point to an instinctual who'll preference for sons. It also may have to do with common interests. Wilson told the publication in two thousand ten before the birth of father would assume whom he connect with his son. Psychologically more so than with his daughter and that they'd have more shared interests such as playing football but regardless of how much Robert Character cared for any of his children. He was often too far from home to see them. Robert returned to the United States in nineteen ninety one and served as a flight instructor at the Fort Drum Base in New York. Robert was also part of the Fort Drum assault helicopter. Division handy went on several missions with team it was during one of these missions that Robert it drew attention to himself a story that would get more attention than many of his murders in December nineteen ninety two he served in Operation Restore. I hope in Somalia while serving Robert and his fellow soldiers became tired of eating army food and craved barbecue. Robert decided to do something about it one day. He flew the Kiowa helicopter over a nearby forest and took aim at a wild pig below. The pig was hit Robert and the rest of the crew landed the helicopter after the shot. They gutted the pigging loaded it onto the helicopter thrilled for the fresh meat. Robert was not reprimanded commanded for his unauthorized joy right or unbecoming actions. Dennis Mills who served with Robert Recall that it wasn't taken very seriously. He told the Seattle Times quote. They tried to court martial him because he didn't go through the proper channels. It all turned into a big joke after awhile. It didn't hurt a damn thing. They they were just trying to get some fresh meat and quote. Many serial killers seemed to display violent tendencies towards animals as children and adults according to an F. B. I.. Report in two thousand sixteen. If a person hurts animals then they're likely to hurt humans or will do so in the future John Tomson abson deputy executive director of the National Sheriff's Association told the FBI quote if somebody is harming an animal. There's a good chance there also hurting a human. If we see patterns of animal abuse the odds are that something else is going on and quote but nobody suspected Robert of anything more sinister at the time probably because they viewed his hunting trip as little more than a desire for good barbecue rather than consequences. Robert was promoted added after this stint overseas in Nineteen ninety-four Robert returned to the United States and became a pilot who trains army aviation instructors at Fort Rucker in Alabama. At the time he was one of only ten army instructors on that highly trained level. Miles Merrill one of Robert's former students recalled quote. Bob Was Really Kinda quiet. He was very methodical. saw things through quite well patients like you wouldn't believe and quote Merrill spent seven and hours a day with Robert for the eight weeks of training throughout that time. Robert mentioned his children but never mentioned this might merrythought. Robert was a single dad. Robert received at least thirty days of leave a year from the army during one such leave in one thousand nine hundred four Robert Badeah white nineteen seventy seven corvette. He drove it back to the base. A move that would later come back to haunt him. Occasionally Linda attended parties on the Fort Rucker base with Robert. She saw a whole new side of him. At the events Robert Drank alcohol and flirted with other women. His colleagues called him James Bond. Linda was shocked at her husband's husband's behavior but she tolerated it. His army pay helped support their family and she needed it for her children. Plus Linda was still living in Washington while well Robert was stationed in Alabama. So she rarely had to deal with his excessive flirting and other bad behaviors his time in Fort Rucker coincidentally aligned with the murder Rav -Tarian Corbett a nineteen year old transgender woman. who was killed on August? Tenth Nineteen ninety-five. Some sources. Say she was a sex worker. Corbett was last seen at a nightspot in Dothan Alabama located twenty miles. South of Fort Rucker the next morning Corbett was found by an unidentified bystander stander in a remote area along the nearby Choctaw Hatschi River. She had been shot in the face several times with a forty five caliber pistol at the time police least theorized. The murderer may have a connection to Fort Rucker due to its proximity. But that was little more than a hunch and no leads ever materialized. It wasn't until decades later that Robert was considered a suspect in the case Dale County. Detectives were unable to determine if Robert owned a forty five caliber pistol at the time but but they knew he would have been familiar with the area do his time on the military base. Though police consider Robert a suspect he was never formally charged with it eight days after. CORBETT's murderer Robert graduated from an instructor pilot. Course at Fort Rucker on August. Eighteenth nineteen ninety-five later that month. He received the Master Army Aviator Badge which symbolized his fifteen years as a military helicopter pilot. He had been a pilot for the majority of his eighteen years in the service office around this time. The army underwent a reduction in forces forty four year old. Robert accepted an incentive to leave the army after eighteen years of service. Yes it was a shock to most people because Robert was only two years shy of the twenty year mark which is when he would qualify for full military retirement benefits back in Alabama police continued. CORBETT's murder investigation several sources have theorized data forever did murder carpet. The investigation is most is likely what caused Robert to leave the army in Nineteen ninety-six Roberts deal allowed him to continue receiving forty five percent of his normal annual. Pay Likely Egli around twenty thousand dollars a year during his eighteen year career. Robert earned eleven honors including several Army Achievement Medals and Meritorious Korea service medals after retiring from the army in Nineteen ninety-six Roberts friend Al Ghamdi recalled that Robert found a good deal on a home in spokane Washington. Robert moved his family into the new home and South Hill on a cul de sac with well manicured lawns. But this idyllic neighborhood was unsettling Lee close to the most notorious street in spokane will learn how that street got its CD reputation in a moment now back to the story in one thousand nine hundred ninety six Robert Lee Yates and his wife. Linda hoped their move to spokane. Washington might rekindle the romance in their marriage. Although that that wasn't the case Linden Robert Soon realized that they no longer felt the same about each other but they decided to stay together as they raised their five children. Linda Said said quote. The Romance was gone but I felt guilty about splitting up the family. The kids love their dad. And just Kinda suffered through it and quote after leaving the service Robert found his military retirement. Package wasn't enough to support his children. He began to look for new job but despite being an accomplished pilot pilot has work. Experience wasn't directly applicable to the civilian workforce and he had trouble finding work in September nineteen ninety. Six forty four year-old Robert took a job at pantry. Link a company that assembled electronic instruments used in heavy machinery Pantr- all owner Tony Givens recalled unquote. He was a good worker who mostly kept to himself. Nothing really stuck out about him. He was just an average Joe pretty quiet. I didn't talk to him much but he seemed friendly. Friendly Enough and quote once Robert had a steady income. He took up a new hobby at home cars. He owned three in one thousand. Nine hundred eighty six Robert worked on the cars and wash them off in families front yard. The entire neighborhood was familiar with his enthusiasm for cars and neighbors often joked that they wanted wanted Robert to wash their cars to Robert hid behind his love of cars even as his own child got a sense of his dark tendencies one day in nineteen nineteen ninety-six his now nineteen year old daughter. Sonia found her father's address book and looked through it. She noticed it was filled with names of women she didn't recognize. Sonia started to go through the address book and call the Women One by one. She asked them if they knew her father. And they each answered no when confronted about the address book. Robert told Sonya that he was buying used car parts from the women named in the book. Even though the women said they didn't know him however Linda to had reason to be suspicious of her husband she noticed the family was running out of money has her husband. Frequently withdrew cash from. ATM's Roberts Response. He told her to get a job. Although Robert and Linda's marriage had been loveless for years. It had stayed physical but after after Robert left the service began to have issues in the bedroom as well around this time Linda recalled Robert used to talk about being impotent and wanted to take Viagra. Ah She remembered telling him quote. It's okay you're probably tired. And I'm tired and quote erectile dysfunction in men over forty is relatively common woman. A two thousand thirteen study of four hundred thirty nine men in the Journal of Sexual Medicine revealed that forty percent of men over forty were affected one day in one thousand nine hundred ninety six Linda found Roberts pornographic magazines filled with images of orgies. She also found a piece of paper with more names. A list of people interested in group sex another time. Robert Asks Linda if she was interested in kissing another woman. Linda had accepted. That Robert was looking for sex rex outside of their marriage. Meanwhile his assignments at Pantr- will slow to a halt so forty four year. Old Robert took a job at the Kaiser aluminum processing plant his colleagues. Were much younger than him so they often saw him. As a father figure Roberts. Kaiser colleagues described him as a family. Guy He he often took coffee breaks with Tim. Buchanan at the plant Buchanan recalled quote. He got along with all of us and quote. Roberts started out at the processing. Supplant is a carpenter working with carbon in the aluminum making process then. He became an overhead crane operator. Kaiser spokesperson Susan Ash Said said quote. By all accounts. He was a good worker. He had a very good work record and quote but the job wasn't enough Robert. His darker side began to emerge coach of the most dangerous street in Spokane at some point in nineteen ninety. Six Robert Lee. Yates visited the notorious areas. East sprague avenue in Spokane. The area had a reputation for being crime riddled a haven for sex workers. The spokesman review reported in two thousand seventeen that throughout the years east sprague avenue head up to thirty sex workers a day occupying corners and throughout the nineteen nineties ninety s sex workers from the avenue often ended up murdered one particular East sprague avenue. Sex worker thirty eight year old Shannon ours. Alinsky was last seen alive. On May Twenty Seventh Nineteen ninety-six she was a former waitress and heroin user so Alinsky was also the mother to a twenty year old daughter. Zielinski had a criminal record with drug possession and theft charges. On that day. She was drinking alcohol with a group of men near Sprague Avenue. A police officer approached the group but no arrests were made later that evening. Witnesses say they saw Zielinski leave her nearby residents for sex work. She wore or a gray dress and high black boots. It's unclear how Robert met Solanki or how they're encountered turned deadly but on June fourteenth nineteen ninety-six six. The last day of classes at the local high school. Two teenage boys decided to investigate a rotting stench at their school bus. Stop in the foothills of Mount Spokane. They had noticed the smell for a few days and set off to find the source. The teens thought the foul odor might be coming from a deer carcass or a dead raccoon. They they found neither in their search. The boys reached Holcomb Road and explored the nearby brush. They saw something lying beneath low-hanging pine branches. It was the remains of a woman's body maggots infested a woman's body clad in a grey dress. A Blue Towel had I've been draped over the body barely covering it the boy spotted a pair of pantyhose a pair of white socks and one high black boot near the remains terrified. The teens ran home and contacted the police. They returned to show Spokane County. Sheriff Deputy Brent Garret the body. They had found sheriff's detective. Rick grabbed Stein examined the crime scene and theorized that the woman had been killed somewhere else since the forest area didn't show any signs of struggle or blood. The spot near Hokum road just happened to be the killers dumping site. The woman's head had two gunshot wounds. One other right side and one on the left police tried to take sperm sample from the body. That could help track down the killer but the body was too decomposed there was no. ID or wallet found. And on the body or nearby authorities used the body's fingerprints to identify her as Zielinski. Forensic entomologist logist. Dr Neil haskell examined. The maggots founded silence. Crime scene to figure out the data for death. He studied the development of the insect which was identified as the black blow. Fly Maggot. This detail would later become crucial to the murder case. The life cycle length of the black blow. Fly Maggot is determined. Woman'd Bhai temperature. Its life cycle will fully advance through all the stages if the temperature is at least around seventy degrees Fahrenheit otherwise its life cycle will we'll be stunted based on the life stage of the maggots found in the body and the outside temperature in the days leading up to the body's discovery Haskell determined that the bodies date of of death was around may twenty six or twenty seventh nineteen ninety-six this also aligned with the fact that Lewinsky was last seen alive around the same. I'm tired among the maggots. Grabbing Stein found a shell casing near where the body was found. Ballistics experts identified the ammunition used as a twenty ninety five caliber gun. Robert used this murder weapon for several more of his victims. Grabbing Stein had been familiar with silence ski and arrested her on East Sprague Avenue you several times for drug possession and theft. He was unable to recognize her face. Due to the advanced state of decomposition. The detective personally told Zelinski is mother other Shannon Laughlin about her death. She said she knew as soon as she saw him. Laughlin said. I always thought it was going to happen eventually. Robert wasn't identified as a suspect in Alinsky murderer at the time she lived too dangerous life in her east sprague avenue activities in addition to sex work she had recently ripped off a notorious drug dealer who vehemently refused to take a lie detector test. Dolinsky was also a potential key witness in the case against it's to Joe Joe Andrews a murder suspect who allegedly shot two people in Spokane in nineteen ninety four. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter a year later. Police initially believed she could have been murdered in connection with that case months later. Linda caught Robert with blood on his hands. Literally in in the fall of Nineteen ninety-six Linden noticed that Robert didn't return home one night. The next morning he returned home and blood covered the back of their van. Robert told her that he had run over a dog and driven it to a veterinarian. She said she believed him. It's unknown if the story had some truth to it or if the blood ed belonged to a still unknown human victim Robert began amassing more victims in one thousand nine hundred ninety seven after a big blow to his ego almost exactly exactly a year after his army retirement. Robert joined the National Guard in Washington in April nineteen ninety-seven at age forty five. His goal was to fly helicopters. Actress again lieutenant colonel. Rick Patterson a National Guard spokesperson said. He came to us very very qualified. Robert Train near Tacoma once a month in order for Robert to be able to fly helicopters for the National Guard. He had to undergo a routine medical examination. He had to remain grounded in the meantime but there there was a lengthy delay in processing the approval for flight. Some sources say an unknown ailment was found in Robert's examination and doctors kept him grounded from flight right from April nineteen ninety seven until spring of Nineteen Ninety eight his performance evaluations stated that his morale and dedication remained high. Even though he couldn't fly but on the ground there seemed to be another side to Robert. It was during this time period when he murdered the majority of his victims. uh-huh next week will discuss the thirteen murders Robert committed between nineteen ninety seven and nineteen ninety eight mostly on East sprague avenue new. We'll also see how a glaring clerical error involving his beloved white corvette kept police off his trail for years and during that time period this this murderous pilot was free to comb the St for victims but terror both on the street and in the sky there was literally no where to hide. Made from Roberts watchful eye thanks again for tuning into serial killers. We'll be back Monday with a new episode. You can find more episodes of serial killers as well as all of our casts other podcasts on apple podcasts spotify stitcher Google play cast box tune in or your favorite podcast cast directory. Several of you have asked how to help the show. And if you enjoy the show the best way to help us is to leave a five star review and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast. That work we'll see you next time. Covered killer week serial killers was created. By Max ex- cutler is a production of cutler media. And is part of the podcast network it is produced by Max and Ron Cutler sound design by Dick Schroeder with production assistance. In Spy Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller Additional Production Assistance by Carly Madden and Maggie Admire. Serial killers is written by Mallory. Kara and stars Greg Poulsen and Vanessa Richardson.

Robert Robert Lee Robert Roberts Robert Lee Gates Shirley Linda Roberts Robert Robert Senior murder John Taylor Yates Robert Lee Yates Roberts Father Robert Senior Robert leyritz Linden Robert Robert Godley Robert Neil Oak Harbor Washington Robert Senior Robert Junior spokane Robert Asks Linda
George Floyd Death: Murder Charges Upgraded for Ex-Minneapolis Officer and 3 Others Also Charged

The Daily Dive

22:17 min | 6 months ago

George Floyd Death: Murder Charges Upgraded for Ex-Minneapolis Officer and 3 Others Also Charged

"It's Thursday June fourth I'm Oscar Ramirez in Los Angeles and this is the daily five. New Charges in the case of George Floyd Minnesota Attorney General Keith. Ellison increase the murder charge for Derek, Shelvin, to second degree murder, and also charge the other three officers present at the time with aiding and abetting second degree burns. Kim Bell where reporter at the Washington Post joins US FOR MORE ON THESE NEW CHARGE Next there approximately sixteen hundred activity US army troops waiting for possible deployment into the streets of Washington DC to restore order if protests get out of hand. President trump would have to enact the insurrection act of eighteen o seven deploy them what the plan has been met with opposition by many including Defense Secretary Mark S. Nancy Yussef national security correspondent the Wall Street. Journal joins US for the plan to activate the military. Finally the coronavirus pandemic has reduced public education, the US to a shell of its former self. Reuters survey of several school district's students aren't having enough facetime with teachers. Some districts don't even take attendance. Online classes and access to classes is also difficult at time. Michael reporter at Reuters joins US for how. Schools have been effect. It's news without the noise. Diving. At filed an amended complaint. Charges the charges former Minneapolis police officer. Derek Chavan with murder in the second degree. Or the death George wanting us now is Kim Bell. Wear reporter at the Washington Post thanks for joining US Kim. For having me. Attorney General Keith Ellison's office on Wednesday upgraded the charges against the former Minneapolis police officer Derek, Salvin, who knelt on George Floyd's neck, and he also charged the other three officers that were at the scene with aiding and abetting murder V. Attorney General said that we strongly believe these developments are in the interest of justice for Mr Floyd and his family, this community and our state. He said George Floyd mattered he was loved. His family was important, and his life had value, and he also said that we will seek justice for him, and for you and we will find. It can tell us more about these new charges. Sheldon, the fired officer who was seeing with his neon shorts Floyd's neck, and that viral video he already was facing charges of third degree, murder and second degree manslaughter as a Friday, but the remaining three officers had not been charged or been arrested until today the charges against Shelvin, there was an additional charge second degree murder, and the remaining three officers all they face the same charge of second degree, aiding and abetting unintentional murder, so in Minnesota, aiding and abetting gets you the same sentence as someone who. Who actually violated the law so all four of those former officers facing the same penalty of maximum of forty years, if convicted, and that's what we're here when we hear unintentional felonies. Yes and something that's also important to know in when they say unintentional versus you know intentional, and those distinctions is, it does have an impact on the burden of proof that the prosecutors are going to have to bring It's notable that the charges against child in particular that he's facing an added charge. That's more severe from his initial ones. Because if he's convicted, he would be the first White Minnesota. In, the state's history, I believe to be criminally convicted of killing a black resident. I think even attorney general. Ellison noted this, it's hard. These are very hard cases to try and the Hennepin county attorney a Mike Freeman. He's one of the few prosecutors in the state who has ever successfully prosecuted a police officer, so ellison was definitely signaling that Take time to investigate and let these cases are hard to win, but the fact that they brought the additional second degree charge against shouted in particular definitely signals that his office feels that their evidence is strong enough because if they overcharged case, and they can't prove it, those officers are acquitted, and that's the difficulty with this. I think that's why the first charge was third degree. They think now that they have more evidence to bump that up to second degree murder. The charges don't appear to require prosecutors to prove that shelvin intended to kill George Floyd which is an important distinction and I know a lot of protesters a lot of. Of, people are calling saying this should be bumped all the way up to first degree murder, but that's so difficult to prove that he intended to go out there and find them and kill them, and all that you know that's the burden of proof right? There would be so great that as you mentioned. An acquittal could happen right away or something, so that's why they're being very careful with with what these charges are Derek, Calvin. He's still in custody right now. His bail had previously been set at five hundred thousand dollars. It's set at one million dollars. He's still in custody. Have the other officers been taken into custody yet? As of the announcement, the Minnesota Bureau of criminal apprehension, said that be remaining three officers were in the process of being taken in. They already had one in custody. They didn't specify which one it was. I know that the Attorney General Keith Ellison had taken questions about this case, and how difficult it could possibly be to convict them in all. What did he say about all that? I think he prepared people for the road ahead, which is that these are tough cases to try I think that he. Probably, for many reasons doesn't want to over promise he's. He's aware of what the the sentiment is in. Minneapolis in Minnesota and around country towards these, but you know he did say that they're also trying to do this case. Right and they're trying to do this case fairly, so they you know he. He's really gonNA. have to balance understanding the anger from the public, but not letting that. Time decisions because you know again he can only prevail can prove what what they've charged. Tell me a little bit more about the charges for the cops aiding and abetting what kind of time if they are convicted? What kind of time could they be serving? So I'm not quite clear on the minimum, so the maximum for that. It's forty years, so if they if they do face the maximum, it would be that I'm not a legal analyst, but I think it is fair to say looking at other similar such cases that you know depending on what the arguments I guess. I would say incentive prognosticating I'll tell you that it would come down to the arguments that their defense makes you know. If you look through the reconstruction of videos from the scene, there are definitely different touch points that all of the officers have so I would venture a guess that you know you'll have some different defenses arise, and there are four different attorneys. Tim Bellwether. Reporter at the Washington Post. Thank you very much for joining us. A career in application development at ddat means owning the opportunity to impact the preparation of our nation for the future join DDAT for challenging work that advances your career apply now at GDI dot com slash careers GD is an equal opportunity employer disability veteran. This is Oscar from the daily dive podcast. It doesn't matter how many times it's been said before home is where the heart is especially now when we're all home more than ever, but that means you might be noticing things around the house that need improving while not everyone has the means to do a full renovation. There are some small changes you can make to help. Improve Your home. Thanks to our friends at blinds, DOT com. They make it simple to shop top quality, blinds, shades, and interior shutters from home with easy online, ordering and free shipping. Window treatments are simple project. You can do that. Really benefit the feel of your home. That's why it matters. What's on your windows considered light filtering window, treatments, roller shades, and more to transform your home into even more of a sanctuary, and if you're nervous about doing it yourself, there really is no reason to be blinds dot com has helped millions homeowners through the process with free online design help plus they guarantee the perfect fit. GO TO BLINDS DOT COM to see how you can re imagine the look of your home today. Rules and restrictions may apply act. Was told. US The option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort. And only in the most urgent and dire of situations, we are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the insurrection act. Joining us now is Nancy Yussef. National Security Correspondent for the Wall Street Journal. Thanks for joining US Nancy. As we've been watching. These protests go throughout the country in response to the killing of George Floyd. A lot of other things that we've been seeing, is this increased police presence obviously to control the crowds when they were very dangerous to catch looters and people with acts of vandalism and violence, things got so bad so quickly that the national guard has been called in, and then came this other plan by the president to possibly call in the military active duty, military forces to help stamp out some. Some of the more violent parts of the protests, obviously that got a lot of criticism. The president would have to enact the insurrection act of eighteen o seven to get some of this done. The Defense Secretary Mark Esperer said at a press briefing that he doesn't currently support invoking this law. There's so much that's been going on with all of this Nancy. Help us our heads around this, please. So. The idea of using the insurrection act is really extraordinary. Because it happened so infrequently, it was written at eighteen o seven when there was actual fears of an insurrection as the name would suggest, and the idea was that if the states had lost so much control over their government that the president could in consultation with those governors then talk about bringing in federal troops. We sell this for example in nineteen, ninety two after the. The acquittal four officers in the beating of Rodney King. We'll also several times during the civil rights of ood president can supersede local government if the states have decided not enact laws, so we saw this most off on civil rights, so for example president is win against the request and the desire for the governor of Arkansas to federalized national, guard troops and had them Choi that that's black students trying to attend. Central Rock High. And I could go to school and so it's a very acceptable thing. The president was talking about us. In Washington DC, because older different to on the state, and it's the whole monuments that had been vandalized. It is where his housing and a lot of federal properties, so we have sixteen hundred active duty troops stationed around the DC area, waiting for the president to invoke that order that much of the military's against using the people who join the military will tell. Tell you. They didn't join with the intent of point on American streets and using their skills on American citizens to go together from their perspective what they're going to do to defend against external enemies, my fellow citizens, and so you're seeing real objection, I'd also sort of the president's. That sets once. You have types in American to just the image of A. Folks led to widespread objections I think within the military, and so the military's pretty out of it about keeping any sort of military presence to the National Guard. Because those guys on governed by the governor's by the federal government, and the president gave a speech, the other day, and added in a call with governors knows calling them week, saying we really need to show a strong presence to dominate the space. I think mark asper had said something similar, but. But any walked back, saying he doesn't support this. And so there's a lot been made by the president wanting to show force wanting to seem strong in all of this, but in the past few days and you know there's a lot yet to go on with this, but cities, enacting curfews and arrests, starting to be made by local police of people violating those things have started to kind of calm the situation down a little bit the protesters the. The peaceful protesters have started to get. Their voices heard a lot more in the past few days, so the president seemed quick to want to have the show of force but I think from what I've been hearing. He's easing off of this now. Well I think there's been a lot of discussion in terms with the White House that again we've heard from our shortages that general, my family, the chairman of the joint. She's a staff rain objective other. Other, Pentagon raised objections to the idea was. Let's see what the National Guard does. Because it's such a big dot come their perspective to invoke the insurrection could put a federal face if he on a response with the hope is that if you allow the National Guard who conquered these communities who are trained in law enforcement to do their job than that's a better option, so I think you're right. things have been better over the course late. Hoping that they can start to talk less and less about the interaction. I ever started here at the Pentagon today. Talk of sending some of those troops back to Fort Drum New, York and Fort Bragg north. Carolina deployed from earlier this week. The other thing that we saw happen to was when the president after he gave a speech, he wanted to walk to the church. That was right there for a photo op. There were crowds that had to be dispersed with some tear gas and there was a pretty good show of force. That one there was also this Medevac helicopter hovering low over the protesters. I think there's going to be an investigation into how that happened also, but who are those forces that were they're dispersing those crowds, because I saw people on horses, and they were using tear-gas. Who are those forces that were being used their? Secret surveys and other sort of troops along those lines are. General, who is in charge of acid took those courses did not have tear gas or pepper traits they are on. Tier. Suggesting that they were not part of those that dispersed the crowd, so it's not just about who is there, but then we're quick way than what their order for so for the military upsetting because both the defense. In General Milley the chairman, not with the president, and as you know the military. In the Constitution and critics say that constitution crew, this freedom of assembly and so forth servicemember top service member in uniform to more food and had disperse well, people actually constitutionally. Joyous people are the real policy in terms of a black. Would that Honda to the constitutional including rights eight side crew assembled? Nancy Yousef National Security correspondent at the wall. Street Journal thank you very much for joining us. Michael. -CATION is really a fraction of its former self under distance learning, and that's not because teachers aren't trying. It's not because school administrators try. It's not because parents are trying and we also. It's not because students are trying. It's because. Of the vast majority of students distance learning is not effective. Joining us now is Michael Pell. Reporter at Reuters. Thanks for joining US Michael. Thanks for having today. TALKING ABOUT CORONA VIRUS? It's hard to lose track of our children in all of this and the students and how schools have also had to be shut down in addition to all the businesses. The world basically stopped, but we're looking forward now to really happening. A lot of states are already in that process. Schools are still trying to figure it out whether they will continue virtual learning this. This distance learning as they're calling it, but there's some analysis that you guys were doing there at Reuters and found out that a lot of kids in the latter half of the school year, just kind of either gave up because they knew some of the grades weren't going to count just a lot of problems overall with the schools. Michael Tell us a little bit about what you're learning. I think it will be found by survey districts across the country is that education is really a fraction of its former self under distance learning, and that's not because teachers aren't trying. It's not because schooled ministers are trying. It's not because parents are trying, and also it's not because students are trying. It's because of the vast majority of students. Distance Learning is not effective. According to what teachers researchers and parents told us we're finding out. The school districts are taking attendance. Schools are not grading students. Schools are providing a small fraction of Eli instruction that they were prior to so. As a result, parents are having to take on the load. Parents who are already working in most cases and students, their education development, and sometimes even their health is falling by the wayside I. Say Health because we also found that schools as many people know our critical providing nutrition to students and in the district that we surveyed. We found out that districts are serving four point five million fewer meals a week, and these are meals that are meant for hungry children, disadvantaged children, and these children are missing these meals. An interesting thing with all of this is as we've seen coronavirus kind of spread throughout the country and the world. Obviously, we're seeing that children aren't really affected as much as others. They're either not getting it in. In the same numbers, or they're not getting it as severe as other people, so a lot of people were making the call. Why don't we reopen the school? Since they're not as affected in the same ways, there's been almost no. That's of children with this, but still the plan to reopen still eludes a lot of school districts. They don't know exactly how they're going to do it just yet. That's absolutely right. Very very small numbers of children have died, and it seems like most of them have had critical health conditions, even before that it's also not clear that closing schools prevents community spread of the disease. The latest research is really starting to call that into question, but districts are not public health officials, lot of and don't understand the health issues. They're relying on advice from other sources and right now. They're trying to make their plans for September. And what we found is that there are a few options that most districts are looking at either A. A partial reopening, which would mean maybe two days a week or something like that in order to try to at least pretend like they're following social distancing guidelines, although a lot of districts that we spoke with, said even having two shifts of students going through classes, they have really often will not be able to keep doing six feet apart. The other option is continuing with distance learning, so as a lot of parents have told US essentially, that is really not having school for another semester. Those are really the two main options the district you're looking at. Another issue with all of this too access a lot of kids at home don't have the same access to the resources. They have while they're in school. You have a few stories in your article talking about how a family might only have one or two computers and everybody's kind of vying for time on that computer to be able to complete your assignments. Do your research whatever you need to do and. It's not just the students. It's the parents. They need those computers, so it's some of these issues of access are also very difficult to navigate access to material access to devices access to broadband Internet are all unevenly distributed? We spoke with Fort Wayne. school districts in Indiana, and they said that they're having a tremendous problem with students, not being able to access resources online, the same is true in Philadelphia that old, after school district made a supreme effort to get devices to students, and that's still didn't. Didn't always solve the problem. What you said you have parents that need devices as well. You have parents that eat access to the Internet as well not only that, but even when you get devices in the kids hands, even if you make Wifi available to students, you still have all sorts of other problems that crop up and parents need to be the tech team. Parents need to be able to answer the questions to the students I gotta be on a great student and I'm not a great teacher. And so I've got my kids at home right now and when they come to questions frequently. I have to scratch. My hand goes man, you better go. See your mom because I'm not good at answering. This kind of question and I think that there are a lot of parents in that type of situation as well because they are being relied on to feed the teacher for most of the day. Michael Pell reporter Reuters. Thank you very much for joining us. Today I really appreciate. Ah. That's a pretty day. Join US on social media at autumn both twitter and instagram. Comment give us a rating. Tell. US Spurs that you're interested. Follows an Iheartradio or subscribe wherever you get your podcast. This episode of the daily divers. Victor Right in engineered by Tony Soren Tina. Premiere as this wizard daily. Renowned Buddhist author and teacher Jarvis Masters steadfastly maintained his innocence. He was sentenced to death almost thirty years ago on a new podcast. Dear Governor Jarvis poses the question. Have cooked there. By the execution of one in. The confines of his nine by four cell and San Quentin Jarvis will share his riveting life story how he has managed to maintain a sense of optimism. In the most dire circumstances are pulled their launch their mind by now that take on Muslim, -Vivor. Provide the details of the bloody murder and trial that landed him on death row. Experiment women I would get charged. Here details from inside the courtroom Mrs. Attorneys fight for his final state appeal newly disclosed evidence that bolsters claims of innocence. Will the California Supreme Court exonerate him a reaffirm his death. Sentence listened to dear governor on the iheartradio. APP ON APPLE PODCAST or wherever you get your podcasts.

president George Floyd US reporter Michael Pell Keith Ellison murder Reuters abetting attorney officer second degree murder Washington Post Minneapolis Derek Chavan National Guard Minnesota Mark S. Nancy Yussef
Bullet Hole Thru Window In RCSD Building

Bob Lonsberry

24:21 min | 3 months ago

Bullet Hole Thru Window In RCSD Building

"Looking for a new career but don't want to spend four years in college than checkout e CPI university through are year round accelerated programs. You can earn a bachelor's degree in just two point five years an associates in one point five or earn your masters in as little as fifteen months whether it's technology healthcare business criminal justice order culinary arts are hands on programs can help you reach your professional goals. So what are you waiting for visit e.? Dot Edu to learn more downtown mostly sunny and sixty eight degrees. I'm Laskey Newsradio wham eleven eighty next news at nine thirty breaking news when it happens anytime, another hour with Bob Blondes very starts now on newsradio am eleven eighty thanks brother appreciate that good boarding Americans and hello, my friend Very quickly I, just posted on social media a photograph taken not by me but by someone who like to remain anonymous from inside a room two. Oh, two at an elementary school in the city of Rochester school number four, which is that Iran by this just two days ago as a matter of fact, at Jefferson and Samuel macree way. But. It's a bullet hole through the window. And Looks to be pretty good size caliber. Fortunately, of course, you know kids are in school and Five Post. The picture probably increases the likelihood that the window gets replaced but just as a reminder of the reality. Of Life that some people some very young people might have to face is again just think about it in your child's elementary school classroom. and. What you are you know what you're grown up time was was like You know mine was was very impoverished in very challenge. There were a variety of different types of abuse going on and such along those lines. If you know you wasn't happy happy joy joy in yet. in school. you were safe. In school somebody cared about you in school there was launch. In school, there was this world part where good things and innocent things happen. Right? I mean you may get beaten up in the hallway afterwards because you don't look why right but it the the in in school there was peace and and whatever your background, whatever your expectation of society. We would have this assumption that that school elementary school is safe and sweet and pure were these little. You know by and large angels and I recognize that you know some folks who've got some behavior issues already in elementary these days but. It ought to be a place aside. where the eagles and ills of the world are are kept at arm's length. But just why would we like in your? Elementary school classroom. Excuse. Me To have a bullet hole in the window. And what would it be like I? I have a I think my understanding is that that bullet hole was in that window yesterday during the day, right as a consequence of some criminal activity which took place in near proximity to the school. But. What would it be like to be sitting in your class when you know the bullet comes through the window. Right, how does the teacher stand there and hopefully the teachers not struck hopefully no student Sir are struck. But how does the teacher then stand there and make it all better I mean which do you tell or which activity do you launch into or what words of encouragement and uplift you offer to help you know a child not be terrified by a you know the sound of a gun in the shattering of glass, right? So and and and here's the deal. If the. The, the bullet came through the window. at that point, you know I'm not a an official CSI. No I think if you turn around. And and look the other way you're gonNA. Find. Someplace up in wall. Hopefully in a wall and not in that person lying on the ground there leaking out hopefully, you open the wall somewhere. You're gonNA find another hole. Okay. Because it did it that that bullet. In this the I'm no good at these things I I put it on facebook and twitter asking people brighter than I to to get the caliber. But. It looks like something of hefty sort something north of forty caliber. But that's GONNA. That's GONNA. Go someplace doesn't disappear vaporize in the air it's going to a strike something. It's a it's a funny thing at the boys and Girls Club. Do member on genesee street there You know they had that horrible drive by an those people died. It. We remember how that shook US so bad any rate I I don't I go running and over you know the the months and years since then. I go by there and every you know a few months when I ran by I would stop. In I would take a picture of a as the rounds were fired from were look to be a rifle they struck of course, young people. They also struck the face of ally little health clinic. That's a right there beside the boys and girls club across genesee street from from the the high school there. But there were a couple of of bullet holes if you knew where they were holes but where the the the bullet had hit the brick facing on the front of the clinic building and it was just like you know the thought of this people live their lives here there's a high school across the street. Spring near the children themselves here to this clinic get taken care of and look. There's this high caliber bullet hole right there. Anyway I, I go every few months and I you know I. That both whole would rub and I take a picture of and I put it on social media and ultimately thankfully, and I'm grateful for But the people at the place and somebody maintenance come in they they chipped out that block and they replaced that that thing where the bullet hole was and it's a small thing and I may have been the only one who noticed it but I just think that youngsters ought to be able to live their lives and grow up in a situation where you know bullet holes in their environment are not a part of what they see in experience, and again, that may be a white guy from the country naive day at play there but at any rate So. The maintenance people at the Rochester City School district, you need a a window it's in room two, go two of school number four You got some glass on the floor. And you've got a a high-calibre hole in the window and a pray God that never happens. Again, we'll take a break me back with just a moment journalists ner on Newsradio wham eleven eighty. And can write. Son House there Sam Schreier spinning the hits. Did you edit that a bit from the from the Front? No. I got. It was on Youtube. Okay. Yeah. It's like a live version I. Think. There's what's that song you know that's called. Scary. Delta Blues. Yeah. Is his guitar work sound similar. There's a there's a a song that would make a great intro. I think just the instrumental at the beginning it's called I think the. Preaching Blues or something like that, and then we mentioned a while ago but it look if if nothing else just get it just listen to that yourself. What's it called saying it's called the preach preach in. Blues Preaching Blues. And the deal is it begins with this twangy. You know his ill tuned Metal Guitar Intro, and it's that that that guitar music is is beautiful absolutely I mean it's like anyway. Yeah. So a Sun House of out of the great American south spent some of his time. living over here did just north of like the Ford Street Bridge in. Here's a funny thing. About son, house if you recall last time, we spoke about him a gentleman called up you who's retired off to some far away place was listening in but who had been a Rochester police officer early in an early in his career, he had known son House and and dealt with him repeatedly Mister House would what we today would call He. Well, he beat up his wife. Right, and so you know I I I thought about that today we have a disqualification in here saying domestic violence especially of a man against woman is evil itself the devil, it's wrong in every situation must be a condemned. But you would say do reject. Son House. And several Rochester's connection to him annette that legacy because of his history of domestic violence. Or is the world. I mean or can we say this was a complex person who had good and bad and when he got drunk he acted out and inappropriate fashion. But there are other times when he made this music, which is an important and beautiful part of of America's relationship with music. Are we mature enough to do that ladder thing and that's not to diminish or be tolerant over except domestic violence in any way? Rich I'm glad you called up. Sir Welcome to Newsradio Cam. Eleven eighty. Hey Bob I thought he before about landmines and quite, but I know some about son House. I just wanted to say one of my all time favorite songs by him as one called John The revelator. And if you take listen to that, I think you'll really enjoy it I just wrote that down. Now. What's this about the land mines in years go yeah. Several years ago you were talking to people they're they're calling in and talking about interesting places they paid. And I. Can you hold on your second hold on second rich? Sam I want you to be learning from this. Okay. This is Kinda stuff we need to do on the show more often all right famous places we've urinated rich go ahead. Yeah called in and told you about hanging off the side of the five ton truck in a minefield and peeing on the mind and kwait. See. Here's the deal I know how much it takes to trigger a mind you know saying Well. That wasn't enough I. Definitely hit them a good good. That's now here's. So you've got a military background, is that correct? Yes I did eight years Marine Corps active duty outstanding I appreciate you and God bless you my friend. Thank you for your service but I now I, need your advice on on on facemask. Okay. So I don't know I don't go spread Cova. Marine did you encounter the phrase front toward enemy? Claymore mine. That's right. Claymore Mine and you release, which is I had the reminder always made me wonder how do they think I am but anyway, I was great for the reminder. There there's a reason when you unwrap your Turkey at Thanksgiving on a plastic it says remove plastic before cooking. So here's the thing they have masks. It say that look just there in an Odi green like that and they look kind of like a claim more and they say front toward enemy. If I if I have that on and I see each other we're both get a chuckle. But what about Joe and Betty Civilian? They think that I'm calling them the enemy would you wear a claymore facemask? Yes I will in the season when I get home, I have my daughter worked for one. Outstanding. I've got one on the way. A. Great. What's what's most important thing you learned in the Marine Corps Sir Disciplined, discipline? Yep. Before that I I I had some discipline I raised. By. Two little sisters from the time I was ten but. Not the. Discipline in the Marine Corps was I mean I talked to him at work I work for the post office. You know I was taught you do your job quickly efficiently correctly the first time or somebody's GonNa die. That's the kind of. It's kind of focus our society could use God. Bless you my friend I appreciate you. Thanks for calling. I think you'll like it absolutely John The revelator by son. House. It's time for news with Joe Laskey who sadly has never recorded a song or posted anything of implants men are singing on youtube what frigging with that Joe Laskey next on Newsradio wham eleven eighty. Because I don't want to be stuck wearing my old data glasses because I want to wake up and just be able to see because enough is enough at the center. We've heard it all all the reasons why it's time for lacy over the past thirty years. The center is helped tens of thousands of people realize the freedom lacy provides how is the time for Lacy twenty percent off for a limited time with one of northern Virginia's leading searches plus get an additional eight hundred dollars off when you schedule within thirty days, register for your savings and schedule your free consultation now at the Ice Center dot. com some restrictions apply. Proud. Pay Tax. In that tank, we deliver propane straight to you extend your. Went. Through that's. Pain taxi. Pentax. Dot Com, let's cook in this weekend. Really is your plan then make it easy on yourself. Go to propane taxi dot com enter Promo Code bbq Ten for ten dollars I barbecue tank exchange delivered to your door. It's that easy with propane taxi so you can focus on family friends and fun. Welcome welcome back troopers. So yesterday some. Link popped up and it was some guy at Rit and here's a white male in Ariz- relevant because he was writing something about how I is a white male can be an anti-racist and I just don't for that crab at believe in love your neighbor as yourself treat people the way you want to be treated. Automatic created equal. We have equal protection under law and I think that about wraps it up I. Don't WanNa play reindeer games anymore nap but I recognize free country say do what you want advocate for what you believe God. Bless you. Just explained where I stand but any rate so as I'M Reading this thing just trying to understand what people think and get their insights whatever there were some comments in there at the bottom and you know a lot of it's a lot of. Stuff and I'm some you know redneck over here thinking this is the craziest stuff ever there was then I came across one comment where a lady whose name to me appeared to be from. India and Who looked to be of that heritage she made a comment about A. Caste discrimination in America member. When we took social studies, we learned that in India that there were different casts of people that people were put in categories and that there was a strict hierarchy order these are the good people up on top and you have these many different layers and it works down towards the bottom and you know I think we learned that in the tenth grade or something in. Okay. So they had that. I think I got the question right on the regents. But I had never thought or considered that that that I thought that was from another time and far away place. But here's this lady and I don't know if she's a student at Rit or if she's a teacher whatever like that and and so you know what? It's social media I sent her a message and I said I had never thought of this. Her. Claim was that the cast attitude has come to America and manifests itself sometimes among people median heritage in this country and that some people who are of you know what some would call lower castes believe that even in the United States, they're discriminated against by fellow people of Indian heritage who would consider themselves of a so called higher caste at any rate. The lady was very polite and she sent me a lot of links to a lot of things to read and again i. I. Don't know if I go in for all this stuff and I don't know what's right or not or whatever. But there is a significant belief, my a certain number of people of Indian heritage in the United States that and it turns out that the caste system is still pretty big in India. There are certain people like you're going to be a janitor. You were born into this cast and you are going to be a janitor and you our agenda and so as in their society. They've you know dealt with covid and of course, you know the people go out and clean up the deep cleaning folks. Who, who make things safer for us in Indian society was all this one group of people one ethnic or caste or whatever you call it and you know as and and unfortunately there were some attitudes that they didn't really need to have p. p. e. to clean up because they were just of whatever cast they were. So at any rate, just interesting stuff and. I had never I'll try to learn more about it and see if it is or is not a factor here. There's a fair amount of writing that that seems to say that sometimes in medical school programs that people who may be of a lower caste from India have difficulty because they face discrimination even in medical schools in the United States so many rape that violate our equality thing that I think we're all a committed to hear WanNa take a break back with US moment on Newsradio wham eleven eighty. New York Times. Which is the answer sheet quite. Obviously The New York Times. Called Kamala Harris. in its coverage for Yankee a practical moderate. In Twenty Nineteen by the gove track, a nonpartisan system had the most liberal voting record in the United States Senate, surpassing that of longtime titleholder, a Bernie Sanders. So as a practical moderate she, she voted last year in a more progressive fashion than any other person in the the Senate Peter. I'm glad you called US good morning, Sir and welcome to news radio. GAM. Eleven eighty. Hey Bob. How're you doing buddy? Good. Hey, listen I just wanted to give you an American flag report. This morning from honey falls to your on four four seven to the United States of America I'm proud to report. That all the flags and honey away foes. This morning are flying at full staff in the vfw clerk and all the flags are probably adorning street and honey way falls adorning means for you bob, they're probably displayed on main street I just wanted to clarify that and. Here. We already falls who do anything half staff. We do full staff that's the way you know what I mean. Well. I I. Have to ask your wife about that quite obviously. Dorning being within my vocabulary range it what about in front of the village hall at and We enter the village hall. There is a flag there. The village hall is again, proudly darning trawl and it's a full staff. Good. Again so at some point point, wink wink nod nod and. By the way I just wanted to correct you on. Camera Harris is correct. Pronunciation of camera harasses first name. It's not camel. I Harris. It's Kamala over over ten. Thanks Peter try not to call again Great grateful to the again, the the issue is at people's homes, and of course of the VFW and such like that. The flag has always been at half staff. Here's the thing at the vfw tomorrow The you would want to fly at half staff in honor of a a fort, drum soldier, overseas, non combat, related death, and the it's interesting because the governor has the flag at half staff for multiple reasons on given days the bedrock is that It's all it's at half staff perpetually now because of Cova deaths. He also separately issued an order for tomorrow that flags will be at half staff in honor and forgive me, I do not recall the name of this tenth. Mound Vision Soldier So tomorrow is a legitimate day for flags to be at half staff in the state of New York consistent with the US code and with past practice, which is we've lost a service member on active duty either from New York or from a new york-based unit and in honor of that lost servicemember the flag will fly half staff for a tomorrow that's appropriate and respectful. Of course, the irony is that the governor already the flag under the if you go by the governor's rules the flag. At half staff tomorrow. So like every other day but i Mike My Challenge today, you maybe heard the commentary. this morning was my challenges to you know to sheriffs is the flag in front of your jail at the top of the staff is the flag in front of your headquarters at the top of the staff. you know I would say to Adam Bellow is the flag in front of the office building there the county office willing is that at the top of the staff. Mayor. Warren. Where's where's your flag and to the mayor's of the various villages and cities Batavia Hornell Canandaigua whereas your flag at the top of the staff and town supervisors and school superintendents Fire departments police departments. Governmental agencies I hope that you would see yourselves as agents, unto yourselves, and capable of making this decision I would assert to you that a governor does not have a lawful prerogative to order the flag at half staff for an indefinite period and certainly not for four months, and so I would call upon you to maybe make your statement and maybe do your duty can get out there and untie those ropes and put that flag at the top of the staff and let's go forward. The Way America is supposed to go forward listen we've got news Joe Laskey will give us the newscast and we'll be back when that good man's done right here on Newsradio wham eleven eighty.

US America Joe Laskey Rochester House India school elementary school Marine Corps Youtube I Harris Rochester City School district Sam Schreier Dot Edu Bob Blondes VFW Five Post Sun House
Interview with Crime Writer Dennis N. Griffin  S. 5, Ep. 13

The Crime Cafe

25:22 min | 1 year ago

Interview with Crime Writer Dennis N. Griffin S. 5, Ep. 13

"And everyone this is the crime. Cafe you're podcasting source of great crime. Suspense Thriller Writing. I'm your host Debbie Mac before I bring on my guest. I'll just remind you that. The Crime Cafe has to e books for sale. Will the nine book box set and the short story anthology. You can find the by links for both on my website. Debbie MAC DOT com the E. B. B. I may CK DOT com under the crime. Cafe Link you can also get a free copy of either book look if you become a Patriot supporter. You'll get that and much more if you support the podcast on Patriot along with our eternal gratitude for for doing so hi everyone before I introduce my guest. I am going to give an extra thank you to my patrons can make loon and escort the when this goes lives. It'll be after. Thank you patrons day but this this is an extra. Thank you to you guys. I should be thanking my patrons every day for supporting the podcast. If you're interested I would just go to my website. Debbie MAG DOT COM and Click on crime. Cafe check out my Patriot page and the crime cafe e books while you're there and now I'm pleased to have with me today. An author who writes crime fiction and drew crime a twenty year veteran of law enforcement his. His latest book concerns the topic of cold cases. It's my pleasure to introduce Griffin identifier. You doing today well. Hi Debbie pleasure to join you. Well I'm so glad to have you here I read your blog. Your guest post and that is it's just some powerful stuff you have in there about how unsolved murders that being cold cases. Could you tell us a little bit about how you got involved in cold case investigation. Yes I was working as a private investigator for firm in Central New York upstate New York and my boss assigned me to investigate the death. Two thousand seven deaths of a soldier from the Tenth Mountain Condition stationed at Fort Drum in Watertown New York. So I I met with the the mother of the of the deceased soldier and she explained to me that the case did this was in two thousand ten so which three year old case at that time. The mother explained blamed she had not gotten any answers to law enforcement as through the army. CIT and Betsy Gatien's of her son's death and she wanted Uh Shoe hundred my employer to see if we could find out any answers for her into what may have happened to her son so that was how I initially got involved. And it was the case of where the her son had recently returned from deployment to Afghanistan. He did justice. Signed back onto base after thirty days to leave in in. This regard was in two thousand seven and he moved off base with another soldier to share an apartment. He was there one night the next night he after they got off duty he went out. Bar Hopping He disappeared that night and was never seen again. A missing persons report was filed with the local watertown. The City Police Department and army army considered him a wall. After I think it was forty eight hours I Six months later his skeletal remains were found in her field about three miles outside of watertown. They were in such condition in that. No toxicology could be done and they couldn't establish a cause for manner of death so everything was listed as undetermined Germond and that was the situation. I became involved in trying to find out her son's activities at night. Why he he disappeared from a bar? Heed the bar. He was at and how he ended up in that field so that that was my first involvement that so you were private investigator yes. I retired from New York state and then working as a private investigator instigator. Theory interesting How do you decide which cold cases should be reopened? Well what I what I do and I also have a blog talk. Radio show called crime wire which we profile some of these cold cases. And and it's you have to use good judgment and you always WanNa undo a case that if it hasn't been determined to be a homicide if it already hasn't been ruled as a homicide and it's either a suspicious deaths are possible possible suicide or accidental. Death you have to make sure that there's enough information on the part of the survivor. The next of kin her. Our family members to indicate that there were some type of foul play that for exactly take suicide situation. It's very difficult recalled understandably and a lot of cases for the family to admit or acknowledge that their loved one may in fact have taken can his or her own life and in some cases earth substantial information to indicate that There were suspicious. Shake the so-called suicide may not have been a suicide in other cases you just have a gut feeling the family member. Just this says I know my son or daughter whatever would not have power Timur herself and it's unfortunate the people maybe right but you can't get very far as far as reopening the case if you don't have some type of information to go on or some strong indicate factor crime committed that's interesting I was just wondering you were talking about the How the volume of these cases seems to be rising yes? I was just wondering if there was like a triage procedure for going through all of them. Well it's basically when people contact me. I get all the information information I can from. That might go usually phone interview and we of course have emails and requests Documentation Communication Police reports newspaper articles. Any anything. They can send me to help me properly. Evaluate the situation and and determine whether it's something I think I can be of any assistance in when I find out that there just isn't anything there errors. There's really not enough information to even start an investigation as much as I hate to. I have to tell all the people. I'm sorry but I I don't believe I can help you. I don't believe we have enough to go on here to to really get into an investigation. Sure are those are difficult things. If there's any possibility at all that I think we can do some good and maybe Take some type of action that might lead to additional leads. Being developed risk possibly law enforcement taking a second look Edwards ed worthy case fans I will try to do that. I I really hate to say no. Although there are certain occasions where you just have no other Detroit but it's If I can find some way did I think we can do some good. I always like to give it a shot. That's excellent and The two examples from your guest post were just kind of sickening to me The idea that one of the cases went cold because of possible anti gay bias and the other one the alleged suicide were. They didn't even bother to basically Lee verify with the husband was saying. How often do you come across cases that egregious more often than than then you would think until I got involved with that Machine Soldier DC soldier case. I never never never dreamed that there will be that. Many D- There will be that volume of these types of cases and I WANNA say I'm former law enforcement. I'm very pro law enforcement but what I am. Not Supportive of is incompetence dance or laziness or cover ups The police do probably ninety nine point nine percent. Do One heck of a job. They're dedicated did they want to solve their cases and so on and my hat goes off to them but because law enforcement like any other businesses comprised bottom blind your human beings I know they have a lot of technology. Today and they have computers scientific advancements and so forth but bottom Adam line is that human beings are the ones that enter the data and so on and so forth. And whenever you're dealing with human beings you're going to have isolated cases where someone may be justice not up to speed and not up to power and those are our what our upsetting When you find situations like that and I believe that That the survivors of these deceased people because of that earn certain cases being denied resolution. They're being denied answers. And their deceased loved. One is not getting justice and Can you have any sense of the reaction to various people. I guess I mean from various. Is People the reaction from say readers from criminal justice professionals from the survivors of blows their reaction into the book. It's been very positive reviews so far. For example been five stars Wanadi unity problems. Readers have is disturbing stories are quite graphic. I mean we're we're talking that cases and eve emotional gamut you run like when I was putting the stories together. I did a little a little editing. Most most of the contributors contributors should never written before So I I wanted to keep stories in their own voice also but I also wanted to make them readable so I I did some minor editing as little as possible and I was going through these emotions. I wanted from among Shock to anger to frustration to Sympathy I I I the whole thing because each of these stories cakes you through that road present. One of the stories in there is called the lovers lane gene murders and I've talked to the father of one of the One of the victims many times over the years and we always do a one of my podcasts. Every anniversary of the murder and this was the case out of Texas out of Houston and and this young fellow son. was on one of his first dates for this girl. They had gone to an area which was called her lover's lane area and parked and person or persons unknown showed up at the scene. They took Separated the two Dave tied him to a tree and then they raped upton murder and he ecorse headed see. Inherit I just the anger. I felt knowing what this taking a young man went through and then they killed him and of course he he had a no that he was next. I mean I just can't imagine and what must have gone to his mind to have to endure that and it was. It was difficult for me to to do these stories actually and I wasn't directly involved but just reading and And then I would talk. And otherwise communicate eight were they were the providers to contributors and a lot of people who had initially wanted shelter stories. Found out when it came to to relocate them and putting paper they couldn't do it it was just too much. They had good intentions. And they just didn't have the emotional wherewithal to to be able to see it through so it was an experience I had never gone through before four and It was something. Oh my Gosh Can you tell us a little bit more about crime wire and the Transparency Transparency Project. Yes certainly several years ago Another lady Susan Murphy Milano. She was magic violence expert and I got together and we decided we wanted to to give people people in in other platform to tell their stories and these were cases some were deaths others. Were like say show. Susan was into the domestic violence or we had some kicking live victims who had been killed but but had been victims of domestic situations and so we started crime wire and it was a weekly a weekly show and Susan passed away a few years ago. Aw and I I lost interest for awhile and then After two years I decided to renew the crime while you're broadcasts and but I am not a domestic violence expert so I got into the death cases and and focus solely on death cases and through them through talking to all these people who who asked to be on the show shone asks for a chance to to tell what their experience had been I realized there were a lot more people people out there who are what I consider. Victimized twice I by the loss to the logged one secondly by the system or shortcomings shortcomings in the system that they relied on for resolution injustice and I decided that What one of the the issues that? They encounter a lot worse when you. When the case was a homicide you've been declared or homicide ruled a homicide And they tried to get records from the police would ask police. You know we really it's been X.. Number of years and and we'd like to know what you've gotten and you know. What did the investigation consists of where we were and the police? This is an open case. Therefore we're not going to tell you you're you can't see the records you can't know what what it's been done and the of course frustration as a families trying to trying to find out where thank standard or how much of an effort has been made. So they would even file a foia request or Sunshine Law Request depending on the jurisdiction and a native told told roll. Open cases are exempt from foia requests. We don't have to honor them. So now where do they go because the the police agency. That's handling the investigation. It's also the same Wanda decides what can Kinda can't be released. So so for example if the investigation headman batch if there had been a regularities Are they gonNA WANNA share that. Yeah I'm saying or are they going to want to let other people know what have bender did not happen what they did or did not do so. I decided I started a facebook. Group called the Transparency Project with the goal of getting legislation hopefully through public awareness getting legislation passed There would help change balance the plain field and give the survivors drivers a better shot at having access to information that That might help them understand what happened. Tair case. And maybe depending on their resources emotional and financial they might be in a position to hire their own on private investigators for example to take a look at the case and They can only do that if they can. And get information. So that was were. The transparency project came of course now today with all the stuff going on throughout the country. Everybody's talking about transparency. Nah Uh not just these cases but but the idea of open and I'm not advocating that every single will case under investigation be opened up to the public okay. There are lots of good reasons not to share certain information to police. You should not share certain information with potential perpetrators and suspects That that is. That's not an issue. The issue is when we've got one case for example to send. The book is over fifty years old now after fifty years. What harm arm can it be to let daughter of their victims know what happened or what is it? Just doesn't make accents so there are a lot of good reasons for the police to withhold information. But they're also certain cases where it doesn't make sense at this stage of the game to not share information with the family and let them know may be for some resolution so that's the the transparency project and as part of that we put I put together this book survivors. Because I wanted to give people a chance should tell their stories in that only through podcast but also through writing their stories and getting them out during printed format and Anna hopefully draw Cancer public awareness of the entire ratio. Let's awesome So if people blur interested they should go to facebook. Look for the Transparency Project. Yes right idea when I started the transparency project and I talked to somebody comedy initial members and it's We decided to make it a close group for this reason. You're dealing with people people who are going through and have gone through some very stressful times regarding the death and and I wanted to make sure that we didn't get a bunch of scammers and people trying to sell sunglasses and and you know that kind of a membership ship so it's a closed group. Ninety actually have to apply for membership. I get a chance to take a look at the applicant. Feel for you know for who they are and so forth so it is a closed group that anybody can go to the site the transparency project just request membership. I will take a look. Get at who they are and then approved that. I've only had to turn down a couple so far. A couple of people that did look like they were really interested in a 'cause they were more interested in personal benefit. Well I'm going to have to wrap up real soon now but I just want to ask. Is there anything that I haven't asked you about that. You like dimensioned. Yes Sir I I really truly really believe that if if we can get enough support and and public support for the survivors and the cause of the survivors from what we're trying to do. I think we can make a difference because of a few phone calls to alleged slater's Some some letters those types of things if we can get that momentum going and in fact we are in the process search for treatment we were trying to get a documentary series started to profile. Somebody's cases through a TV series. And so far that contributors who have submitted their stories for the book are very interested in going further with it. Some people it's harder. TV scares me a little bit. And then they get the second talks about that but the majority the are willing to take the next step and and if if we can get an interested a network interest too. I'm good they would be more than happy. Kelder stories on camera. And if you can see these people and hear them I mean a book is fine but if you could actually see them and emotions and so forth I think that would be very powerful so Were were making some progress and forward movement and net area. That's fantastic. Well it's been great talking to today and down in wonderful having you on Dennis. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you and your audience Orient. Let's my pleasure. Believe me and it's very important subject so I'm so glad you were on Before we go let me remind you As if you have a choice that you can find the by links to the crime cafe. Nine book says and searched reinvent At my website Debbie Mac dot dot com along with my Patriot page. Please check it out. Thanks to everyone for listening and please leave review. It helps a lot on the next steps. Owed I'll be talking to mystery author. Vs Himalayas see when two weeks and until then happy

investigator watertown Debbie Mac murder New York facebook Debbie MAG Patriot Susan Murphy Milano Timur Afghanistan Adam Himalayas At Griffin City Police Department CIT Tenth Mountain
5.15: Full Disclosure (with Lawrence O'Donnell)

The West Wing Weekly

1:22:50 hr | 2 years ago

5.15: Full Disclosure (with Lawrence O'Donnell)

"The western weekly is sponsored by ZipRecruiter. You know what's not smart the way hiring used to be job sites that overwhelm you with tons of the wrong resumes. But now there's a smarter way at ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash west wing, ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology finds the right people for you and actively invites them to apply. So it's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US number. Yeah, I was wondering what it was going to be, but it was number one, right? The best you can be. Yeah, and right now our listeners can try the number one rated ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash west wing, that's number one rated ZipRecruiter, ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash west wing. You're listening to the west wing weekly, I'm Richie case your way, and I'm Joshua Malina full disclosure. In this episode, we're talking about episode fifteen from season five. It's called full disclosure and full disclosure. It was written by Lawrence O'Donnell junior. It was directed by Leslie linka gladder and aired on to twenty five four. So you put the tone in there too. That's why your professional actor. That's right. I just said the words and coming up a little bit later in the podcast, we'll talk once again to Lawrence O'Donnell from Warner Brothers. Here's these synopsis the Bartlett, administration reels from press leaks that former vice president horns is preparing tell all book that will embarrass the president and Leo joins plans to become a candidate for president of the United States. The newsflash first son CJ live on the air as she jousts with acerbic pundit Taylor, read, Josh welcomes the mayor of Washington DC to the White House to discuss school vouchers and also encounters a political firestorm. When intern Ryan proposes closing a military base in a district belonging to a power. Congressman Toby parlays with trade union bosses who reach an impasse over import safeguards for brassieres and will though briefly seen makes no impact. I don't think that's true. I think in the end in the final resolution for this episode, we will discover that will is actually behind the answer e wills the one who figures it out. He saves today. Oh, so you're saying he had some great offscreen stuff? No, no, onscreen even onscreen even it just happens very quickly. Okay. Full disclosure. I don't remember. Let's start before the beginning of the episode with the previously on do let because this is an important one. I think there's a lot of portend in this previously on some important scene is there was a scene that didn't seem that important at first CJ says. About me when she was talking to Toby about Ben extra layer of meaning. Once we watched this episode? Yeah, we didn't didn't even know at the time. It was a little throwaway joke, and now it turns out there is a lot you don't know about CJ. That's right. We will later find out that the thing that you don't know about CJ jumping all the way ahead. It's revealed at the end of the episode that CJ and horns ten years ago had a one night stand and we don't find that odor as I remember it was one year ago that attend nights dance, but I didn't watch that. Partial disclosure, that's not rain using the disclosure is half full. Sorry, that'll be the end of that. But CJ and the vice president had this affair. He was married at the time and she knew that she knew it. We find this out at the end of the episode. But if you watched the episode knowing that it really colors the entire performance from Allison Janney, which is unbelievable. I agree. And of course, watching the show possibly for the first time I'm not even sure I'd ever seen it before. Even though I acted in this episode, read it and knew what happened. Of course, didn't remember all these many years later, and I kept writing down that the odd things about her and she seemed off her game in this episode and CJ not not. She's not AJ CJ rattled, and I kept thinking like he's got no poker face and she's not keeping your composer and why she so rattled by all this and the scene with Leo. I liked that she's being hard on him, but there's a sort of energy there that seemed odd to me to kept writing on these little notes. And finally, at the end, I understood the. Layered nuanced performance than AJ was giving. Yeah. There's one moment in particular that I wanted to mention, which is the scene in Leo's office, and she's trying to make sure that they have all their facts straight. And so she's coming at him saying, I need to talk to the president. Toby comes in, she CJ even leaves for twenty seconds. And then she comes back in the room as if those twenty seconds haven't elapsed and just continues her thought right saying because when everyone in the briefing room has that article, but the way that she delivers this torrent is a little manic. They want everyone in the briefing room has points article. I'm going to be getting bombarded about what who says you in the president said, and I've got to be just it's like the energy is a little bit beyond her control, and I love the end of it because she says, I don't want to have to go back out there a second time saying, oh, yeah, was right about this bit in that bit that you guys forgot to tell me, I understand we gotta get our stories straight on this today. Too, and it's the last little so thing that she does rise to center herself. Yeah, like she's driving the car and speeding and she can't quite stop it in time and like, you know, one wheel goes over the edge of the cliff a little bit. I love how vehement she is. And yeah, the amount of control the actor has to have to show just the character is just a little bit out of control, really impressive whilst and Leo can tell that there's something wrong, but then Toby covers for her throughout the whole episode from Wednesday, begins on Taylor reads show when she first learns about this stuff and beyond it seems like Toby kind of knows what's up. Yes. And then he covers for her with Leo, but only kind of sort of you can also tell Leo isn't really buying it. No. When he asked her, is she okay? And he says, well, she got blindsided. He says that got her so yet did. But then Leo has a look like, he's like, that doesn't sound right. That doesn't add a, yeah, speaking of not adding up. CJ makes a mathematical error in the cold open which is on Taylor Reed. Did you notice that when she's talking about the billion? Right. Three point, four billion dollars a year. That's sixteen billion over. Five years, and that would be enough to win. In fact, three point, four times five is seventeen. Does that happen? This is on live TV. Fair enough? Yeah, that's right up. First of all, why did she go on Taylor read again. What deficit starts. She's what she's back on that show after that experience that she had. Yeah, that's odd. I did kind of feel like maybe she was enjoying it a little bit though. Yeah, I guess ultimately she had a some sort of endorphin rush by beating him down the first time and she wanted to do it again. So she's seems perfectly happy to be there, but she commits, I think there should be word for a mathematical it solace is is a small grammatical error, and I feel like there should be a word I wanted to create in the neologism for making a small math error, and I was thinking it could be she made a mistake. It's small, but she made one. That was a long way to go for smoke Noah. I'll take it for smallest system. Yeah, still, let's let's go back to the previously on because one of the other significant parts of that are scenes from season four episode Twenty-one life on Mars. I think it's worth rewatching that episode at least the end of the episode to see this full exchange that that gets highlighted there. Yes, of course. I went back and what pretty much that as well. I didn't watch the whole episode. I just watched that final scene. Did you? Of course, no. I just watched that finals into. I remember I remembered having watched. I remembered having been. I liked that scene very much particularly because it showed us the flaws and the questionable character elements of our heroes, particularly Leo. Let's say essentially, but no explicitly suggests that points cover up the felonious leaking of classified information. Are you in a position to tomorrow. No, she's made a seven figure book deal. It's not going to have a lot of credibility on the rewatch. President. Bartlett has some more plausible deniability does suggest that maybe he can weather the storm the way they that president Bartlett himself, whether the MS crisis, but Leo flat out just suggests that they cover up that the cover up a legal activity. It's funny. I remember when we discussed that episode, you brought that up as a comment, and I didn't think that that was going to be a seed that was going to come to fruit later. But here here it really does. Although I think not in that way. I think a lot of the sort of more dire aspects of life on Mars get swept aside, you know, this whole thing that you're alluding to the leaking of information to Helen Baldwin. The really serious part is kind of more or less forgotten. They're really, I think they're talking just about the affair. And then I think here that's really all they're concerned about. They've completely forgotten about the leak part, which to me is a little bit of a missing element in this episode. Because to me the super high stakes nature of what happened with Hines is that he, in fact committed a felony. There was a suggestion of a cover up. He decided to resign, and now we're left not even really knowing what happened. I guess they did cover the fell. Or never came out. Maybe you could argue that it never came at. It never came at. Nobody covered it up. Nobody asked, you know, but I suspect knowledge of felony and not reporting it is probably some sort of legal known, no. Yeah, I think that would be a landmine that would probably if they decided to step on would take over the entire season probably of the show and and instead focusing on just the sex scandal part of it, the affair you know, that wins cheated on his wife with this woman over, you know, had all these phone calls with her that ended up being the thing that that was the part of it that lived on. We'll riddle me this. Let me see if I can blow up this episode that I actually really liked. I really like to with one comment there curated a list of his biggest cups during his time, the vice president, and how about starting the list with you committed multiple felonies and we know it. So I don't think you should publish this book because we'll tell the Justice department about the felonies. I mean, that is a, that's a good point. Maybe it's on the list of the just we just. It just didn't get highlighted. It's in there somewhere behind the embarrassing, the heads of state, it's fun. I didn't really even occur to me to. We're just getting there down this discussion that undercuts almost the whole raise on debt of this episode, which is that point has something. I mean, we they're trying to parse and trying to recall exactly what they said and how they said it because there are some questions here there. Some things that could cast them in a very bad light. CJ doesn't know she wasn't there. So she's trying to find out how much of this is true that he's saying there are certain things that Leo claims or counterfactual. It didn't call the woman at cheap horror. I may said she was cheap person. It isn't recall exactly what she said, but it's like the elephant. That's not in the room. Yeah, good. There's one part that I like when CJ's in the Oval Office grilling Leone and the president. And she says, Leo, did you say the woman was a cheap whore. And did you suggest she had other customers? No, I should. She wish a cheap person because she sold her story. What kind of person does. Something like that. But the one of the things that gets left office. He really did say the word customers. Yeah, it's great how some of the bits of truth are in there. Yeah. Well, this isn't one of the nice things I think from rewatching life on Mars leases to the vice president is your giant John, your US Senator vice president of the United States in presumptive nominee of your party. You cannot be taken down by this cheap person and her customers huddled around Macy's window waiting for someone that turn themselves inside out. It's cost for divorce. Resignation. See, this is why I also think he's not talking about leak. He's just saying it's caused for divorce. That's really what Leo's focusing on. Well, Leo's gone through a couple of different phases in this scene. By that point, he's moved off of his. Can you just deny? I think prior to that, the word felony is said out loud point says, I committed a felony. And Leo's immediate responses are you in a position to deny and that couplet includes very damning information about both characters. Yeah, horns is admitting he committed a felony and Leo is saying, maybe we can cover it up and you can stay in office, but you're right. That is not in the New York Times Sunday magazine article, as far as we can tell. Nobody's saying, oh, you know, the vice president is in volunteering. Oh, and let's let's all return to the time when I committed a felony. Right. So help me understand. Wayne's is rehabilitation process as he envisions. It is to give this interview expand further on it in a book and. Make president Bartlett and Leo look bad for having suggested that he could lie his way out of the sex scandal and remain in office. And what he's saying is despite that bad immoral advice, I decided to write thing and step down, yes, the person he's really going to be running against if and when he runs is Bob Russell? Right. And now Bob Russell is part of team Bartlett. So so by association, if he can say everybody, you know, I step down. I did the right thing after I know that I did the wrong thing. I acknowledged I did the wrong thing, and these guys wanted me to keep doing the wrong thing. But I, whatever at the moment when I decided I had a conscience which is when he got discovered, right, that's when it usually kicks in. It's funny how that works just after getting caught. But he said, I did the right thing, and I resigned. And these guys are a bunch of liars or at least you know, he's, yeah, he's going to make them look bad, and I think that that ultimately does play to his benefit because the selection for the presidential nominee is zero. Some game. So if you can, if you can make everyone else look worse than it does make you look better. Make sense how weirdo and we've talked about this again and again with the timing of our podcast and real events and the events of the west wing that on the heels of this Woodward book coming out. Yeah, with all these controversial revelations were now talking about this episode. As we record this. It's a day after all the Woodward book revelations. Yeah. Oh, my God has crazy that the way things seemed to sync up with our podcast and the show full disclosure, Josh. I did steal some papers off of your desk. And one of the things that struck me was the difference between CJ and Sarah Huckabee Sanders in there, even the stressed concerned CJ respond very differently from how Sarah Sanders CJ is attempting to be more as nuanced and truthful as she can be. And she's trying to nail Leo down and everything. He recalls with precision, Sarah Sanders. I heard on CNN think today. Her response to the Woodward book have hundreds of hours of tapes, but I think most of those probably come from some disgruntled former employees. It's a lot of anonymous sources. What I can tell you is I've worked alongside the president under the president for the last three years. I was part of his campaign. I've been part of the administration since day one, and I can tell you that the president, everything so far that I've seen out of this book doesn't depict what's going on in the building behind me. It's just amazing. Just, you know if CJ took a page. WJR at of Sarah Sanders book. She would have just come out and said the everything in Heinz is articles for nothing to it. It's all made up of all pure fiction. She's a bit more sophisticated and concerned with truth. I think than Sarah Sanders. The specificity that she's looking for is pretty remarkable whether you said we could weather this. How's that different from beat the rap. Just completely different. It's not different enough for me to go out there and fight about it. Did you tell him he shouldn't have used White House phones? No, I shed didn't. You know the White House keeps records of phone calls. I was reading about the sort of mock depositions that John Dowd was running Trump through in preparation for potential testimony, and he just kept on getting him tripped up into lies and contradictions. And the ability to remember what you said. I was just thinking, what did we say in the last podcast, I certainly couldn't remember word for word. Yes, I think when deposed and when testifying. Saying I do not recall is a frequent Goto and probably accurate. Yes, prayed. I do not recall. It's really impressive when the president says, I think you said whether it's true. He did say weather. Yeah, and not to harp in the same point again and again, but I've got to believe that Leo remembers that he's suggested covering up a felony. Yeah. If you remember if you remember is the thing about the phone calls, right. Okay. Let's talk about some of the other stuff that goes on in this episode a little bit. So another thing I wanted to talk about it's not just CJ's performance. That's great. In this episode, I think Richard Schiff also turns in a fantastic performance, both on the dramatic sign and on the funny side. So Toby has CJ's back throughout all this. And there's one part that I really like. Sure. You want to handle this. But even that he's not sure about it and he's leaving the office and he just gives her another look back over his shoulder. Just a concern for Toby and his friendship with CJ is really, I thought really wonderfully shown in this episode. Full disclosure, I agree. There's this one part at the end. I'm jumping way ahead but but at the end went after CJ has gone to visit the vice president. She comes back to her office. It's dark, and I thought I was like, Toby is going to be there for her. He loves her, he'll he knows that she needs a friend at this moment and sure enough. He he's there and I think he does something that I really appreciated and I just thought was really some good friend work. You just says she's finding he's leaving. And then she just says Toby. And he just waits and he doesn't say anything. And then he comes back in the room and then he sits and he's still doesn't say anything, and he is just like good intuition on his part, not to interrupt or anything. He just keeps his mouth shut stays in the room and waits for her to then continue. Yeah, there's a sweetness to the way he treats her. Yeah, I thought that was so lovely, just that he was that patient and kept his mouth shut. It's a good move. If we can stay with the end of the episode just for a second, there are a couple of sports night things that it reminded me of what? Yeah. The CJ says a couple of things that reminded me of Dan ridell just a couple of lines. She says, sorry to punch is to me. I don't have anyone else. I come politics to which I loved, because of just how overwhelmed she is by all of these feelings. And like to some extent, you just needs to get it out there and say, you know, express her regret publicly in a way that she hasn't been able to ever before. But it also made me think of Dan. When in the episode the apology from sports night, do you remember the episode to yeah, episode to God that show came out of the gates just blazing Arendse organ in the apology. You know, Dan has to apologize because he said something that sounded like you condone marijuana use an in a magazine article, and he has his conversation with Isaac dances. I don't know what I'm supposed to say. I apologize. Who cares? But then it leads to this really beautiful moment at the end of the episode where Dan apologize. Yeah, that is a great episode. Great performance by Josh, Charles and Robert Guillaume. And I do like the idea that it's almost like Toby's her confessor. Yeah, she's got no one else. She needs to say it out loud, right. And I also like it goes right from that to the phone call with Ben. And now she needs to just talk about something else then. Then. Favor. Would you mind talking to me for a while and letting me just listen. This also reminded me of Dan in sports night. I don't know if you remember this isn't the episode Shane episode nine that just getting it's the hit and run Danny episode at the end. He's, you know, Dan is really discombobulated. And at the end, Casey says, do you want to find someplace in talk about it? Dances. Would be okay if I am. Just sit down. Shut down for of course. It's okay. What's going on. It'd be periods of time the conversation when I don't see anything. Funny. Long periods went on saying. It's also really nice moment, and I know that this is the era of Sorkin is over, but as Lawrence, a crossover, I thought both those, he did a very good job of it's interesting that he would touched on similar emotions. Yeah. I mean, I think this would have reminded me of Dan, regardless of what show I was watching, but the fact that the west wing made it feel more poignant. Let's talk about the the rest of Toby's storyline in here. Sure. He has to deal with the reps from the AFL CIO and I re- I like even at the very beginning of that part of the story, the way that he greets them in the lobby, you know that he's friends and familiar with these folks. He's friendly to everybody. He's saying Hello and he's starting to talk. And then he sees somebody else and he's like, oh, and he shakes their hand. Yeah, I loved all of that. These are his friends, really. I mean, like there's so many times when Toby has meetings where they're going to be contentious and he knows going into it, he's like ready for a fight. It was nice. See the figure. Toby Ziegler is a labor guy. Yeah, of course. It was a nice way of. Bringing that across without having to say Toby. Ziegler's of labor guy. Yeah, exactly, right. You see it, you feel that these are his people. Yeah. And I thought Ron dean was good as the sort of hafa esque spokesperson for the AFL CIO group. Yeah, right. The full disclosure page on IMDB features. He's still have me for some reason I'm telling you because will plays the pivotal. I don't wanna get too, don't own that. We're going to build up to it excited. I'm excited to find out how. While Toby is trying to go into the meeting with the union guys and Larry meet him and they, they wanna give Toby this info on China and the trade deficit, but he dismisses them. He has kind of a feel like TV in yuck neck of this. About politics won't help. Right? Yes. I read them that line to. Did you write knickknack? No, but that's what I was thinking. I was disappointed that at no point there was a lame joke made about artificially supporting a sagging Broad-market felt like being talked about the whole storyline was was leading to something along those lines and it never happened. There was a funny line though that Eddin Larry being the right guys to bring in to discuss bras. It was just weird. The experts. First of all, Richard performance of just the word bras is great. So end Larry then go to the other meeting and the other plot go from one be storyline to the other. That's right. They get into the base closure meeting that Josh is running and that Ryan keeps trying to sort of insert himself into. But there's a great part. Then when when the bras stuff comes up anyway, it turns out he has to he, he does need them. And so then Josh Gibson and says, hoping needs to talk to you about China. And as soon as he says, China, William Duffy, Larry looks at and gives him a grin like see with dole that guy to give up. Right? He's vindicated. Speaking of Bush, not Josh's finest moment when he inexplicably says the Chinese even need bras what the Josh that was that was the that was more than bumping on that was the needle. Scratches the vinyl record, the sound of extra me. I rode west stop talking. Why? Why? How? How did that make it out of committee me up? Oh, I know I had wrote Britain just stop talking because he had also said previously because reviewing cost benefit analysis for every military base in the country is mind numbing as Radiohead concerts. Forgot those come on John. I mean, how dare you? I think it is consistent, but man, that is a dude who I would not enjoy hanging out with yet. Josh thinks Radiohead is mind numbing. If you remember in shadow two gunmen, he says. We got to replace where some Josh here. I'd like to do be brothers. It's gonna take back that a do. Blackwater I'd be open to his Doobie brothers recommendation feet didn't also say Radiohead was mine. I hear you. Okay. Full disclosure, full disclosure, the Greg Brock CJ seen, why did they play it out the way they do that whole first of all, love Sam Robards haven't seen him in years, but I know him he's a great guy and a wonderful actor and the Syon of Jason Robards as Lauren Bacall. Oh, wow. Yes. That is quite a talented family there as pretty good, bring ear parents to school day. Yeah, and SAM's. Great here has Greg Brock, but I don't understand the coin is about basically they just make a deal, but the whole thing they play it as if CJ's office may be bugged. I think I think the idea is that in the future, so. Okay. So he comes into CJ's office and she asks him for an advance copy of his article. He says, I cannot give it to you. I haven't policy. You cannot have it. And then as he's leaving, he drops a disc which I thought I was subtle move, but then both of them just carry the conversation on while staring at the disk and like looking at it, it's not concealed it all. It's in the middle of the floor, and it's a disc. Discuses points on it. Really. More obvious, but I think it's so that if one were to testify, you could say, what was the content of your conversation? She she say, I asked him for an advanced copy and he said he would give it to me, but testified a what I don't know. I, there's no look. This White House doesn't even care about felonies. She she, she asked for an advanced copy and I, I gave it there. That's the one thing I don't understand. It's almost like it's like this huge spy thing or like one of those scenes varies like right down the figure and he writes on a piece of paper, I'll need that much money, right? I can't say, why don't they just say, oh yeah, I'll give you a copy, but here's what I'm going to need and return, I guess because it would be less exciting to watch, but I ended up watching it going, what the hell are they doing with this thing on the floor and the way? Well, I'm even thinking about what I just said to like, as if in some kind of deposition, the questioning would only stop there did you, but did you get an advanced copy. Damn it. The whole floor thing didn't work. And how did you get it from a disk? And where did you get what it's maybe well, okay. Here's the dropped up. He dropped. It was an accident. He didn't intentionally give me, I guess. You know, I get all that is just I kept thinking, why do they have to do this? What's secretively or what's the plausible deniability for what are the stakes are going to die too? Yeah. The thing I would like to ask them under oath is how to CJ have a zip drive attached to a computer also. Fair question. What do you call those bear? Remember? I used to have a big blue drive this zip drive. Yeah. Is zip disk and zip drive disk? Yeah, they were a big deal because I think they could hold one hundred megabytes and they were big. They were physically big. Well, you need a lot of real estate, so you can write horns on the labeling, huge letters Hines, top secret. These return to Greg Brock, not for CJ. Prince sees four CJ. Okay. Let's go to Josh's meeting here with the folks in charge of closing bases in order to increase military efficiency. Ryan Pierce is being an obnoxious little snot throughout the whole thing. But then in the end it turns out he was right. He did the right thing. He was far too. And did you fall for it? Did you get tricked by his? I did. And I was in the episode. Yeah, no, I did. I did it. Yeah, I didn't catch it. And I really liked it. I did too, and I thought Jesse Radford particularly good. And of course, Brad is well, I liked the way that whole thing played out. I liked the way Lawrence wrote the scene and that Ryan would clue in Josh, knowing that they're being watched and doing it in these in these actually trying to fire. Look like, I'm crying I can. I can do that. I can look like from crying the whole way that played that. It was very funny and clever and a great reversal that I did not see come. Yeah, Ryan, totally jujitsu. The entire meeting put one over on everybody including his boss, and it is really wonderful kind of generous that at the end, he's still acting like of course, Josh knew what he was doing the whole time. Right. I was was great. That whole piece was wonderful. Yeah, Josh asked him, you plan to this and I was like, be cool dude. Now that you've like now that you figure that out trying to act at least like, yeah, well, and they're both. They're both very, very good in the scene because Brad has to go through a complex series of emotion and realizations because you. Incredibly pissed at him, and then he's confused and pissed, and then he's confused and starting to get it. And then he's starting to get an admiring him. But still a little bit is just a lot going on. And it's very, very funny and a joy to watch. I think this is a long play that has paid off like they've really built this character up as someone who I was gonna find annoying and I did for a very long time and snotty and you know, self-important and then titled and he plays into all of that stuff in this episode when he gets up and he's going to call the congressman congressman fin anyway. And I was like, what is this gonna doing for everyone just like, and I thought it was more of this. I was going to be more like -rageous. This character is so annoying. He's going to, I can't believe this and then they totally turned it around on me. Yeah, I agree. Lawrence too neat trick then. Yeah, you know what was another turnaround ahead I had originally written, so Carol, keep. Asking CJ again about phone calls from ranger Ben. Oh, and I've been holding online line talk to bed right now. I know and I had originally written take a hint Carol in all caps. I couldn't even read it down because I love Melissa if it's too much, but Carol come on. This is enough. I wouldn't write it down out of respect from. Fits. You obviously didn't feel the same way, but then the episode ended and CJ calls Ben and really has this wonderful interaction with them that is really meaningful and she really needs. And so I had to write down after that. It turns out Carol was right Ritchie. Carol new. Yeah. Another neat little reversal. It was written down. Ben needs to learn how to send an Email instead of calling incessantly anyway. It ended up being the right thing and how great is Alison, even just into that last seen ya even unto the Flint oil when she no longer on camera and you just hear the, you know, we don't know what Ben is saying, but we hear that it's giving CJ little laugh and she sounds like she's decompressing a little bit just Allison's performances spectacular to to the last moment. Okay, so that's the end of the episode as CJ's returned from her visit to point. But let's go to the moment where she decides to go see horns. And this is where I think very briefly it's revealed will is actually the winner of of this episode bring it so again, will is bright there with everyone else about this stuff not only as a former comrade of theirs, but in this capacity as chief advisor to the vice president, this is a threat to his Br. In butter and we see we'll pure practical political side. Even in his quick aside to Josh, the vice president would like to urge you not to close basis in any state with more than one electoral vote. Exactly. Yeah. Friendly will says, we got to take a shot at Heinz. We got to let them know we have ways of fighting back. We need a list of what a list of all of his private on the job. Screw ups. Everytime points gave the president, bad advice. Every mistake ever made big and small and that inspires Leo and Josh and Toby to start thinking of all those moments that do in fact exist proving that will is right will then says, oh, we can start leaking into the press. But then CJ says, no give it to me a fire warning shot. And this to me felt like, so she's taking wills strategy, but then she steps it up in a scene that's previously been referenced on the west wing. It reminded me of Michael Corleone volunteering to shoot Salah's the godfather. One person's. Strictly based episode, two. To do it himself that he's going to the heels with a gun in the toilet exactly what the gun in the toilet. And then CJ goes in and she drops the list on the vice president and he, he's like, okay, I got it. He's like, this is affected, but then that's it turns out it's not even that's not even the most lethal weapon that she has. She asks him about this thing. You know, that leads to the revelation, put the two of them. She says, sorry, run for president. The press is going to find some of those women. And if you try to attack them, if you get your opposition research team working on them, if you try to destroy them, if you try to say they're all bimbos and liars, then I'll be standing right there with them and I'll be ready to take anything you or your people throw at me anything. So don't make me tell the truth about you because it will be the whole truth leaves the guns. EJ take the cannoli take the cannoli. It's not the prettiest side of politics. We're seeing in terms of wills plan and their coalition, or that's the word of this list. They're putting this list together, everything every screw. Up that Wayne's is made even Toby concedes out and they'd never make a list for me yet. Toby says he says there wouldn't be enough paper. Yeah. So you know, they really are fighting dirty rather than just denying what this guy has to say. The aspects of it that they find that they believe are counterfactual they're getting right in the gutter. Yeah. I mean, he went low and they are going low exactly which is always my approach. I go lower. On Twitter. Anyway, let's talk about this part of the episode. We haven't touched on yet, which is school vouchers yet Washington DC. First of all, James Pickens junior plays the mayor of DC and he is so good is good. It's shame that he is not just always on the show. He's so good. James Wiggins, junior has been on many, many things though he was on Grey's anatomy for was leeann episodes. Oh, that's right. He's a shonda land denizen. Yeah, and he was on NYPD blue. I think back in the day as well a little bit. He's been on six feet under. He was in rob. Lowe's showed the lions, Dan, he is awesome. He was in a lot of episodes of the x. files view. Remember that he played Alvin Kersh in the x. files anyway. Connector, he's fantastic. It was very neat how in this episode, they took a couple of different jobs at DC. I don't know if jabs is the right is the fair thing to say, but you know, on the mayor himself has some complaints about the position he's in. Yeah, he's, he's in. It's a city whose budget is. Controlled by congress and the president, and despite that or because there are problems in DC's infrastructure. The schools aren't great and the water is bad. Yes, that was very, that certainly resonated what with Flint, the water still being toxic played for a laugh. Can I get you anything? Gerald? We have anything water water. I'm good. Yeah, it's played for a laugh and it's played entirely separately from the storyline about school vouchers, but I thought it was great that they included that joke in this episode. You know this thing about, oh, the water is terrible, which at the time it really was. I mean, then that was a fact in the early two, thousands, DC, tap water was terrible. The lead levels were eighty three times more than the safe limit. Unbelievable, it's a fair shot. You know when when Brock says, he's not going to have the tap water, but I thought brilliant included in an episode where we also see the mayor of DC talking about. You know, the plight that DC public school students are in, what do you make? First of all of president Bartlett's calling charleen from the other room in order to have this creek little conversation, and then what you make if is in fact turning his mind around on the issue. Yeah. Well, okay. Before we get to that part, I just wanted to say about Charlie that his reaction to the mayor of DC is awesome. A glove. You know, when they just mentioned that he's coming to see the president that he says about time. And then later when he's actually next to the mayor, he's like a little star struck, and I like that too fidgety and he's just like a happy that he gets to meet him and it's so cute. Mr. man. Mr man. Charlie, good to meet you. Doing great, just great. I went into deuce myself because, well, I'm a big fan. Well, thank you. I voted for you both times. We'll hope you're going to vote them in next on every time. This is one of the top cute Charlie moments. I agree. Doesn't try to seem cool at all like voted for you twice at vote for you. It's just pure enthusiasm and a little bit of getting us. It's obviously a little bit of a hero for him. Yeah, and that top cute Charlie list is tough to get on, but this one is up there for me. So I thought, wow, you just need a sample set of one for your data to make your entire decision Charlie's for it. Done. It did feel a little bit, like let me tell you what I know. I have a black friend in fact, let me get him on the phone. He'll tell you felt a little bit like that to me too. Yeah. Then made me think of when when I was in, I think second or third grade when we had like a demonstration a day about native Americans in our school, and one of the kids said, we should ask Richie. He's Indian. Yeah, that was that. Did you graduate say, sorry, we say native American. That's right. Yeah, I thought that part was a little suspect, but I did also like the the president. Got it reversed on him. You know, he calls in Charlie thinking Charlie's going to support, you know, look, here's a guy who went to public school. He's look at where he sitting, he sees outside of the Oval Office and he, he tries to tell the mayor as well, and you couldn't be a better advertisement for them. And then he says, let me clear my schedule and ask my valid to fetch Assad. Charlie comes in and then reveals that, yeah, I went to public school, but I would have liked to have gone to this private school Gonzaga. There's never been a shooting there. They don't even have metal detectors, almost everyone goes to college. I thought it was great and also one that the president probably should have seen coming. Yes. I also at the same way to kind of look on the mayor's as like, I knew what he was going to say. There's only so much you can fit into a single episode of the west wing, but there's no conversation about maybe putting vouchers aside and putting more funding towards public schools that don't have to be the kind of schools that Charlie's describing. It's a very complex issue. I feel like there's enough in the background there to suggest the mayor says, look, the Republicans are going to give me enough money for this talking about the larger systemic issues. I'm never gonna get anywhere with an opposition congress and all this stuff. This is actually something concrete that I can do to help two hundred kids out of sixty eight thousand. Let me just do this. I thought it was really. I thought it was really interesting. Lawrence O'Donnell was actually a substitute schoolteacher in the Boston area. And that experience changed his mind about vouchers. I think it would be fascinating to hear his perspective on on including that. I also loved the way that the DC's kind of Tennessee to get short shrift was highlighted just by the mayor, keeps getting. They keep asking him to wait, but he doesn't get the kind of attention certainly that the base closure meeting gets or even the union reps. You know, it's an interesting hierarchy that they show in this episode. You wanna work where it's like these guys get whatever they want. They get the nice room. These guys they can have ESPN whatever than the union reps get this storage room in folding chairs, but they get, they get Toby, Toby has to leave sometimes, but the mayor he's never been invited to the White House. Yeah, not doing this presidency. Yeah. And then even just walking to whenever meeting just has to keep asking him to hold on while he goes to attend to something else. Fair point. I thought that was well done to the other thing about that meeting with the mayor and the president, though was his point about how the president and Josh weren't really in a position to talk to him electric him about the value of public schools in a way because they had not gone to public schools. Democrats who are constantly talking about the how education is the. The silver bullet and all this stuff, but they haven't gone to public schools a little bit like Senator hunt besting, Josh Lyman for not having served in the military. Like you're gonna. You're gonna talk to me, right? Yeah. And again, just like with the DC water thing, you know, there's a great setup to that earlier when Josh is talking to Donna about Ryan Pierce. He left the kid alone with the brand just for a minute. Can't she seems to have a feel for that stuff faking it if you learn one thing in prep school had to pretend like you always know what's going on, which is true. But a point that isn't raised in that episode, although the certainly it's maybe it's close enough with the thing that the mayor says about you guys didn't go to public school. No child of a president in the last hundred years over one hundred years. No child has gone to public school of American president, except for Jimmy Carter. That is a telling statistic. I mean, you know what? I'm sure there are all kinds of things that have to be taken into consideration security, secret service, all that stuff, but still for a group of. People espousing the virtue of public education. They aren't also willing to subject their children to it in Washington, DC proud to say that my son has gone to only public education might daughter some public, some private. What are you guys doing with Watson. What's is being home schooled? Oh, that's another way to go and equally valid. I am a product of a mix of public and private education myself. I went to public school until eighth grade. My sister had gone to public school for her entire elementary and high school education, and then she got to college and she told my parents, I am not prepared for this and you need to figure out something else for she. You need to send him somewhere else. You should get him to whatever the best school is that is financially feasible and I ended up going accident in which we couldn't afford, but Exeter was the school that stepped up and paid for everything. And it was amazing. I mean, it was incredible experience. So happy that I did that what a good and nurturing big sister? Yeah. I mean, in addition to introducing me to the west wing, there are many, many things that she's responsible for. He's a good one. Yeah. One thing I was thinking about the vouchers to in the cost of the schools, even if you have your tuition paid for because this is something that I experienced, even if you have your classes paid for. There are. So we have there's so many things that end up coming up. One thing that I am forever grateful to Exeter for is this it felt a little bit. I don't know. I guess a little bit medicine at the time or something, but I feel like I can talk about it now. The cost of the prom, our senior prom was like a fancy prom, fancy private school, prom. It was at a switch castle. It was this really nice thing, but to go, you had to run to talks and yet to buy a ticket and I had to buy a ticket for me and you know, on my date, the combined cost of all of that stuff was something like one hundred and forty dollars with tux rental and the two tickets. And that's just not money that I had. You know, I mean, there was no anyway, there. These things info other, you're just going to say, books, books, there's damage. Exactly. Well, yeah, there's books to anyone. One of the wonderful things about that school was. I mean, there are a lot of kids almost half the school gets financial aid of some kind. But for someone like me, who was there on on a full ride, they. Actually the financial aid office covered that stuff. They cover the cost of tux rental and the ticket. So I could still have the full school experience experience. I thought that was really wonderful, but I'm sure that's not that's not every school has those kinds of resources or necessarily that kind of generously thinking financial aid staff? Yep. So even if you get into the school, there's just there's so much so many other expenses. How did you like your private school? Josh. Let's see. I went to use Sheva for first through eighth grade. I went to public kindergarten. I went to Sheva for first eighth grade and loved it. I went to Westchester day school, moronic New York and orthodoxy, Sheva. And I got, I think an excellent education there. And because of the religious aspect of the curriculum, ethical issues were a part of the core curriculum. And that's something that I, I treasure from my early educational experiences. And then I went to kind of a classic college prep private high school in the Bronx called Horace Mann, which. You want to Google. You can read about Harz men and its last many decades of questionable goings on, but I thought I got a very good education there, and it was maybe a little bit too much of a too much of an attempt to funnel. Its graduates into the best colleges is because I don't know important that is in the end. But I also had a wonderful arch program, and I really did a lot of great theater there. They're a wonderful teacher is night. I had a great experience there. And how well did you learn to always pretend like, you know what's going on. I think you had to go to. Maybe I went to at tell you had to go to boarding school for that because as if anything is clear from these one hundred twenty or so episodes. Even when I have a sense of what's going on. I can't. I can't radiate. It. So I don't know. All right. Let's talk a little bit more about end Larry. I think this is a tremendous episode for Edinburgh. Sure. There's this part when they get called out of the base closure meeting and they have to go help Toby with the unions, Josh tells Ryan and Donna, you know, the really what they have to do is just ask and how much will that save every few minutes. But before that scene, there's a little bit of dialogue from Ed you. You can't even hear it entirely because we, it mostly comes through the closed door, but Edward has his version of how much will that save and it is a work of art. Projections for the economies of scale. You think you're cheated the next holiday of troops and materiel all of you. And I thought that is an excellent way to say and how much money will that save like you're really paying attention. It's a great way to pretend like, you know what's going on right? There you go. And then at an Larry get the breakdown, the incredibly complicated dynamics that go on with trade relations, which seems a little bit silly to have to explain to these. I feel like they probably know I thought so too, like the import of cars will affect me anyway. There can never be too much at an Larry though. I have to say, I think so, yeah, I love my Larry Peter and Duffy. Please tell me, I don't think this is probably thing, but please, I would just love if there were an episode coming up somewhere between now and the end of the series that was told from the point of view ad. Larry. With they carry the story the wouldn't that be nice. No, that's not going to happen. I mean, I think possibly the reboot could be entirely from their point of view. It would be awesome. I would my mind they're living together. They're in their sixties, their burden. Ernie that. Exactly. That's right. They both got girlfriends in Canada and they're very happy to go. There's an episode of Matt fractions run of Hawkeye for marvel now that you know came out a few years ago that is truly tremendous in the first issue of the series. Hawkeye Clinton Barton. It's really about Clinton Martin who is Hawkeye. It's about him while he's not an adventure. It's just like him. It's basically like almost like a sitcom set up where that sounds good. It's so good. It's just him in the building in which he lives and his neighbors and no, like other real superhero stuff except for little tangential. Things like iron man comes in to help him set up his DVD player. But at one point he he rescues a dog from some gangsters and he calls the dog pizza dog because the dog eases pizza. Anyway. Later on in the run, there is an issue that is told entirely from the point of view of the dog, and it's amazing. There's no dialogue that's discernable except for words that the dog understands brilliant. I love it. So I thought you could do the similar thing with an Larry's don't understand anywhere except for the ones that are directly related to. Chinese bras. I don't know. There's one other piece of continuity of very light one than I appreciated in addition to this being kind of the part to to life on Mars. In terms of the main plot, we get the return of Clare huddle. Who's the do you remember Claire huddle? Sure. Don't clear. How does the woman who delivers the vice president's resignation Lennon. Sure. Now, I know you remember she's played by Mandy Freund and she doesn't have any lines in this episode, but she's the one who let's CJ in to see horns. I love that. She's still there. I was thinking when I was watching again when when they said, oh, when's doesn't have a staff? He doesn't have people thought he's still got clear huddle here. He's now working in a law office, but this person has stuck with him and I just love that detail kind of the way that you still see will sometimes. They're very thorough that way they keep that guy around the. He used to be the most well, paid extra. One of the things that was so neat about that even though she doesn't have any lines, it really writes this other part of the episode because it makes you think about Clair's own character, like this person who knows about horses scandal was there for the reveal of it who delivered the resignation letter? No, we'll give her an episode when sewed from Claire huddles perspective. Exactly. We'll take a quick break now and when we come back Lawrence O'Donnell, we'll talk to us. Support for the west wing. Weekly is brought to you by simply safe home security done, right. SimpliSafe is home security will actually love using. It's really thoughtfully designed so you can blanket your home with protection and never notice. It's got all kinds of great little touches like gentle reminders. If you're leaving the house with the window open and most importantly, simply safe is really good at its job, seen it, the wire cutter and PC MAG all named at their top. Pick for home security over two million people use it every day. Learn more about how simply safe can help you today. Go to SimpliSafe dot com. Slash west wing, that's sl m. p. l. i. SAF dot com. Slash west wing, the west wing weekly is brought to you by squarespace. They are the engine behind our website, true, and they could be the engine behind your website to for whatever you need, whether it's for your business or your art or some other pursuit that you want to put out there in the world. That's right. If you've ever thought about having an online presence square. Space will make it fun and easy to realize your dream. They make it easy by giving you beautiful templates that are created by world-class designers. So even if you don't know anything about web design, you can make a website that looks professional and it's actually easy to use behind the scenes. That's right. And they've got things like free insecure hosting built in SEO. That's search engine optimization. There's nothing to patch upgrade ever, and there's twenty four, seven, award-winning customer support. So go ahead and make your website. There's no harm in trying. Because right now you can actually get a free trial by going to squarespace dot com slash west wing. And then when you're ready to launch, if you use the offer code west wing, you'll save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain that squarespace dot com slash west wing and that back to the show. Joining us now is Lawrence O'Donnell. He's the host of the last word with Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC. He was a producer and writer on the west wing and his work included writing this episode. Full disclosure, thanks so much for joining us. Lawrence. We haven't spoken to you since way back in season two when you played president Bartlett's father, and a lot has changed since then. We're now in season five were in the post Aaron Sorkin years and in season five, you came back to the show as a consulting producer, and I was wondering if you could tell us if we could start by having you tell us about that experience, how did that come about? What was that conversation like when you first heard about Aaron leaving and then got this gig as consulting producer, will that last up so that we talked about was my last episode on the show in my first run of the show. I did the first two years of the show, and then I left and went off to create my own show which did get on NBC for a short run was called Mr. stern. Erling and was starring Josh Brolin as a young and suddenly appointed member of the United States Senate. That was, I'm sorry to tell the world, the single most difficult thing I've ever done in my life running a show on network television, I believe is the most difficult of human achievements. It's really the crushing schedule. And by the way, that's the thing that show business has changed. Show business has said to, you know, people like me in that position now, don't worry. You don't have to do twenty two. You can do ten, you know, you can do twelve. It's that crush of twenty two episodes that you were supposed to deliver for NBC CBS ABC at that time in those days. And that's just an inhuman attempt after my show was on the air for of I dunno, six or so episodes. There was a trend line in the ratings that was disappointing to NBC, and so. So we were on the road cancellation was pretty clear to John, and we haven't quite gotten the word yet, and I'm sure John wells got the word before I did, and John called me up and said, listen, if your show doesn't get picked up for next season, we'd really love to have you back at the west wing, and I was reluctant and I said, well, you know, I, I've already written for that show. I, I've done that and he then intimated without specifically saying that it would be very, very different in the next season. Probably very, very different. And when I put the words together in my head, what it sounded like to me was it's entirely possible that Aaron wouldn't be there and the John would ineffective takeover the show, and that became a public fact not long after that conversation. And so that actually made it really interesting to me because I looked at it as I've done that show, but I've never done it under the John wells. Version of the show, and John is the master of show running in Hollywood history. And so I went back to it in the spirit of I am going to go back now and take a course called show running one, oh one. And I am going to sit there beside John wells, and I'm going to study how this is done, and I'm going to study how he somehow holds ten thousand pounds over his head every day running ER at the time and and then running the west wing and doesn't even make it look strenuous after I've been completely defeated by it. And so that was by intent in going back. I really just wanted to take a graduate course and show running being laziest person on the business. Certainly at that point I fought for and got the two days a week deal. So I was headed for the laziest possible version of working at the west wing, making very good money for doing it. And you know two days a week. And so you'll notice the one we're talking about is episode fifteen. Of season five because I was sitting there on my hands hoping I would never write an episode the whole year. And at a certain point, John turned to me and said. I know you're not eager to, but I really could you possibly do fifteen for us? And I, of course, I would do whatever John asked, how different was the writer's room under John as compared to under Aaron? It was very different than the big big difference was that what happened in the writer's room was always real. The biggest thing is you never wasted a minute. You didn't waste a single second. And I noticed this actually in the first meeting because these are three hour meetings and writers rooms normally spend the first ninety minutes joking around doing nothing like it has nothing to do with the show and it's literally just like waking up your voice box and talking and joking in its entirely. It's joke filled for the first ninety minutes, and everyone is avoiding getting to the work with John wells. That period lasts less than ninety seconds and he goes straight to it. And you know, this guy has a million things to do. You know, as soon as he leaves this room. And I remember in the first meeting of the John was running making a couple of jokes. And by the third time I made a joke like an hour in, I thought, whoa, I'm not going to do that anymore because I just used up forty five seconds of John wells time on a God damn joke like, this can't. They can't do that. The other thing about the Aaron room is it wasn't always real meaning. I don't think Aaron would be surprised for anyone to suggest that he can be moody. So what I came to realize was things like, oh, I have a very good idea. I think I've just figured out how to solve this problem, but it's Monday and it's eleven AM. And so I'm not going to mention it because it'll get shot down right now because that's just the way it feels right now, but Thursday when Aaron needs to deliver an act one for Friday morning shooting. This idea is going to be great. This idea is going to unlock the puzzle and it's going to go straight into the script. And so there was a certain kind of management and I was able to read where Aaron was on that curve, you know of will this click with him right now and with John wells, it's machine like if you have a good idea and you mentioned a good idea. Bang. It's in right now, and it's not a matter of mood. It's not a matter of his this Monday or do we wait for John to be desperate on Thursday, none of that was there. And so it was very, very different that way. I want to turn out to this episode. I wanted to ask you, how did this main storyline about poins coming back? Where did that come from? Was that one of the ideas that you pitched or was that something that had sort of been collectively conceived in the writer's room? No, it was not collectively conceived. I, you know, I was watching the show when I wasn't working on it. And so one of the episodes that really intrigued me that had things in it that I really. Really, really liked was life on Mars, and what I loved about it was we were watching, you know, Leo and Bartlett and the team deal with a crisis, and it's a kind of crisis that American new could come to a White House by that point, a sex scandal. And one of the things I loved about it was watching the language that Leo used when he was talking to join us about what happened here. And I know that if I had been working at the show at that time, I would have been the supplier of that language and I don't know who was probably Aaron, it's perfect, you know. So Leo says two horns at a certain point. What about it's none of your business? I leaked classified information. It is their business. It's also a felony in the position to tonight, and I loved that because that's the way lawyers talk lawyers do not say to their criminal defendant clients. Did you do it? That's goofy. TV lawyering they never say, did you. Do it, they say things like, was anyone else in the room? Would there be any records that you were in Miami that day? So Leo is using very professional language in that situation. You know, because the west wing has this real halo image around the characters. I think people miss just how normal some of these political actors are, and I don't use normal in a highly honorable way because if you look at that scene the than Aaron wrote the president of the United States who is by image of this fictional character just the most pollyanna honorable president in history. He is standing there willing to conspire with the vice president of the United States to cover up a crime. So the interesting thing in that scene is that hoines 's actually has the moral high ground. You know, the adulterer has the moral high ground over these guys. And so I looked at that and was absolutely fascinated by another thing that I was fascinated about in the west wing. From the first time I saw the pilot was CJ's personal life because there's that fabulous first CJ moment where she's on that exercise machine, and there's a guy beside her who she's clearly kind of taken a shine to and and checking out and looking at and her beeper goes off and she has to go deal with the president of the United States, and I thought, oh, I really want to explore how her personal life works. I mean, clearly she's of a certain age. She's going to biological clock ticking, and yet she's married to the presidency and the protection of the presidency. And so how does she deal with any of this? And so that's just something I've always had my eye on and with CJ is what about that private life that personal life. And you know, I know the way life works in those environments and and what. What can happen and how the men are and how it all works. And so that was my choice to put CJ in this position and and for her to have a secret. And you know, when you're that far into a TV series, you're in season five. It's very hard for any of your characters to have a secret. It's really, really hard, and this is the kind of thing that would be a secret. And so it really came out of my first minute obsession with CJ's private life. So here's my question back with the scene from life on Mars. When the three of them are talking about what horn should do and what his next move should be. How come in full disclosure when the staff eventually come up with that plan of collating a list of points as I screw ups, that they can leverage against him by machine made with Mexico migration, the way tip their hand on the energy Bill lost the entire New York delegation on the transportation Bill. What happened to the felonious leaking of classified information? Why isn't that the number one bullet point that they. They have over him. Well, because that's already going to be public information that's going to be in the book that's going to be in the woman's story sushi's. She's already revealing that. So that's not something they have to deal with. It's probably already come out. In fact, it's probably already been out there and dealt with who in Helen Baldwin's book. Yeah, one of the many things in the west wing that got set up and then the that that ship was just sent out to sea and we never checked up. But if he if you consider the way he resigned, he said he's resigning because this is public information. He's not resigning just over an affair. He's resigning over the fact that she is revealing that he leaked classified information just you feel satisfied do. Excellent. I wanted to ask about another part of this episode which was the school vouchers for the d. c. public school system aspect of the plot. I had read that that part of the story was inspired in part by what really happened with the mayor of DC introducing this to. Bush, but also that it was inspired in part by your own time as a substitute schoolteacher in Boston? Yeah, I was a teacher for years and I was writing a book at the time and what bothers me about the issues involving public education is that it's one of the things for which more ignorance is thrown around by politicians than than most other subjects of. They've never been teachers. They don't know what the struggle is. They don't know what they're up against, and I have to say, when you're in the classroom and you're in these struggling public schools that have no hope of any kind of significant change in their struggle in the foreseeable future. And you're sitting there dealing with a very, very bright fourth grader who is brighter than you were in the fourth grade, and you know what is a head for her as she marches through this system. And you know that the way this system is go. Going to serve her. She's going to be lucky to graduate from high school. You also know at the same time that it that within walking distance from here is a school in which she would thrive. One of the things that I used to watch when I was working in Washington was that the most vehement of the anti school voucher Liberal Democrats had in their lifetimes, never spent a day in a public school, not as a student and not as a visitor and not as a teacher. And that bothered me a lot. If I could have taken one of those kids across the street to the parochial school or to another private school, I would have done it because I would have saved that one educational life. And when you're dealing with real people and real kids whose names you know as the mayor is an as Charlie is in this episode, it's very. Hard for them to turn away from the face of the real child and say, no, because of principle that is not easy for me to explain to you. You must stay in the school and you cannot go to guns AGA as Charlie wanted to go to in highschool it. And so, yeah, that was very much a personal piece of writing. And interestingly, from the liberal west wing TV show, I am told that it has become a fixture in the kind of Republican based school voucher world out there. That is that pushes school vouchers, and I'm told that they show that scene of the mayor in the Oval Office routinely at their big gatherings. And how do you feel about the reality of what the school veteran program has actually turned out to be because it doesn't feel very west wing in its execution in the fourteen years since that was implemented well, like everything government does. It's politicized. And so you know. There's a, I think there's a reasonable and useful version of a school voucher program, and then there's bad versions of it, you know, and we, we usually do the bad version of whatever it is. Did Democrats, especially thinking about Democrats in Massachusetts, you know, give you feedback about your inclusion of this issue. I was thinking about Boston. Latin is a public school in Boston. It's the oldest public school in America, and it's it's a tremendous school. Did anyone say, hey, how dare you betray us like this? Well, Boston Latin is the best high school in America, I believe, and you get into Boston Latin by taking an exam. So it's not an available public high school to anyone who wants to go there. Let's not pretend that it is. So there you are right there within the public school system saying, we are going to make some decisions here that will determine in many ways the future of your life. And when I was a kid, I took the exam to get into Boston Latin school when I was in the sixth grade and I got in and I was like everyone in my neighborhood. Desperately afraid to go because it was like the wicked hottest school in the world. And so I didn't go because I was afraid of it, and I took the exam for it for high school and I go to end and I didn't go again, and I went to an easier. Let's get this straight. I went to an easier and not as good Catholic school, you know? So so there's the subject has levels of complexity that could allow you to go on forever and Boston Latin is one of the great elements of this story. If you tried to apply the Boston Latin school model around the country, and you tried to bring it to scale, you would be doing a lot of harm to other public school kids who couldn't quite make the cut on that exam. And so there's a lot of ways for you to harm kids and harm their opportunities in the public school system, a lot of ways to do it. But you know the thing that got the biggest, the only real big issue reaction was an offhand. Reference in the base closure discussions about closing fort drum in upstate New York. I on the list is fort drum in upstate New York. Its primary mission is deep snow, combat training, missions, consensus is that deep snow is no longer training priority. Well, the reason I wrote that is when I was working in the Senate for Senator Moynihan of New York, we were always fighting the closing of fort drum and we were always winning. And so I always knew fort drum is always going to be on the chopping block in. So I through it out there on the chopping block and bang the new Senator from New York. Hillary Clinton immediately writes a letter not to me who she knows has written the episode and I, by the way, am a real person. She writes a letter to the west wing addressed to Mr. Josh Lyman. And that letter is a letter of complaint to Josh Lyman saying, how dare you suggest that we could close down. For drum. And so that was the for me, the single best policy reaction we ever got and Senator Clinton did successfully keep for drum open. That's great. I have a linked to that letter and we'll we'll put it up on the website so people can can read that. There's a quote from you Lawrence here. It says, Josh Lyman is quaking in his boots. Yes. That's great. Sam Robards is in this episode playing the New York Times reporter who have a favorite parking garage. Greg, Greg Brock. And of course, a Greg Brock, like all of the characters I created is named after a real friend of mine, Greg, Brock, and and Sam was just so wonderful in it. He's just a really wonderful and fluid actor and Allison loved working with them in second one, which I kind of knew she would. And that was that was one of those great things where you you bring in a guest actor and it's and it's as if he'd been there and been working with Allison for years. It was just great. He's just completely charming and charismatic. And you know, he addition for that part and he had flown from Sweden that day and stumbled off an airplane. And so he gave what was probably his shakiest audition, but he'd been a longtime friend of mine and I knew his work and I knew he was absolutely great as did everyone else in the room. And so you know he, there was no question about who was going to get that part where you often in additions. If I wrote the episode, I would sit in additions for any episode that I wrote and consider everybody. So how did it feel having written your first solo script for the west wing? Did it make you feel like maybe he didn't want to write more for future seasons? Yeah, it did. I mean, I, I really, you know, I was a wounded warrior who healed and a high could I discovered I could walk again and yeah, it really did working with the actors. Again was just magical. And you know, there's a very important element of this episode that was created by the genius. Richard Schiff. Richard said to me after he read the script on, we did the through Richard said to me. So Toby knows and I said, well, no, he doesn't. No one knows it's. She's only one of knows. It's her secret only she knows, and he said, no, no, no, no, Toby. Okay. So Leslie gladder we, we talk about this. Let Leslie directs it. So basically as she and I talked about it, we realized we don't have to change your word. We can make an shoop this thing, and we can decide in editing whether Toby knows we can take out that look in the Oval Office. We can just clip it. Don't have to see it. You know, we can do this. And so if you ever look at it again and think about it as the when the when it's written, the writer does not think Toby and then the actor thinks Toby does know, and so- Toby plays it as Toby knows all the way through and it's every bit of Toby knowing is in the silence it's in the silence. It's in his eyes. There's only one moment where he does something in dialogue that's based on it. She okay. Well, you know, she got blindsided by this thing on live TV. Yeah, it did. And watch the way Toby says, yes, it did. Now he could have just said yet, did just very matter of factly like, you know, yes, the ankle is broken. Just really, you know, diagnostically yet, but you watch the way he does that. And he puts something in that line that is knowing and it just makes you feel there's more in his head and I'm watching. I'm watching this happen on the set and I watch him do that. And that's the moment where I decide yet Toby knows because that's just a beautiful way to deliver that line. And and my alternative at that point would be to say, Richard, you know, do you want now give us one straight where like he just doesn't know. You know, once I saw Richard really taking over with this, I knew before we got to the room. Oh, I really do want to see that moment in Richards is I really do want to see this. And so at a certain. Point I stopped caring about, are we tipping this and decided I care much more about Toby and CJ's relationship and Toby as a support system for her, and I want all of that. And that was all written silently by Richard Schiff. It's amazing. I love that the after effect to of Toby's little spin on that line of of, yeah, that got to her because then we get to even see a little bit of a reaction from John Spencer where he's picked up on that from Toby and suddenly he's got some glint of knowing in his eyes to that, there's more to this story at least than what there seems to be on the surface. Yeah, you know, one of the other real joys of the episode for me is Jesse Bradford doing Ryan Pierce who I had not worked with before and I see him. And if you look at the episode again, just watch him the way I was writing him. In that ups owed is he is Josh Lyman. This is what Josh Lyman was when he was Ryan's age. That's what that's all. You're seeing it watching, Josh Lyman, c himself, gray in the mirror when he's that age. Okay. We've your finger in my face look like you're gonna hit me mind. That's good. That's great. Show congressman fin. You're ready to kill to save his base. It's gonna love you for this. Thing that I used to want to see happen in my first two years there that didn't happen as much as I wanted it to happen as I wanted to see how wrong people could be. I wanted to see our people and I wanted to see them get outsmarted and how they would deal with getting outsmarted. And when you realize that you were outsmarted and here's the most difficult thing in politics and then government is getting outsmarted by somebody and then realizing that they are right and the ego of men in those situations makes it very difficult for us to put it mildly to get to that space. And so we have that with Jesse Bradford with with Ryan Pierce when he does that thing that crazy thing of bringing congressman Chris Finn into the room, and he does it so that Josh can get the credit of saving the congressman's base. And he says to him, look, you are now going to get credit for something that the committee. I was going to do anyway, and that is a brilliant principle in politics and government and believe me. I was in that position more than once where I was positioning my team to take credit with certain political players, forgetting something for them that they were going to get anyway, no matter what they were going to get it anyway, but we got the credit and then they owed us, right? It's very important concept. And so I loved that. He both figured that out did it and Josh has to stand there and realize, oh my God, this horrible little creature who I hate right, Jeff. And he realizes that as he's being observed by them? Yes, yeah, through the glass. Yeah, through the glasses, so. Fantastic. And that's just a great thing and, and the other thing I loved about that was getting Donna to the table, you know, in government, there's all sorts of levels of the game. You know, there's the question of where you win the room. There's another level of this and that is where you. At the table. Donna had never been at the table. She had gotten a cage analii near the room in the room. She'd never been at the table. You'll notice I tried to give that some meaning earlier in the episode because because little Ryan tried to sit at the table right at the beginning of the first mean in the very first words, jut Josh speaks when he walks into that room to Donna's saying chair. Yeah, I get him away from the table because for Josh and for all of us in that cult, and it's a huge deal when you get to sit at the table and Josh couldn't stand the sight of that kid sitting at the table alerts. Thanks so much for letting us sit at the table with you for this. This was awesome. We always appreciate having you on as a guest. Thank you very much, and thank you for making me watch this show again because I just like it so much better. I like it so much better when I watch it. Now that wraps it up for another episode of the west wing weekly. We're glad you joined us. The west wing weekly remains as always a proud member of radio Topi, which is a collection of the finest, cutting edge podcasts on the planet. You can find out more about them at radio topa that FM shoutout and thanks to Zach macneice and Margaret Miller and Ryan peers as played by Nick song our researcher and also you can follow us on. Instagram on Twitter. You can sign up for our newsletter which we can't afford to send out. And if you buy a couple more pieces of Smerch in days at west wing, weekly dot com, slash merge, maybe will eventually send you a newsletter. I did remember one thing I thought about this episode which is I really find some separation between will, and Josh Molina looked sometimes when I'm watching the episode, I forget that I do a podcast with that guy on the screen the way you speak in real life. Sin times reminds me a whole lot of Jeremy Goodwin and will Bailey within there. Other times, like in this episode where I thought my experience of you and my understanding of you and I don't know, it just is completely different from what I'm seeing. Onscreen that delights me to hear. I feel like that proves it. I am acting. You definitely are. I know I thought I was, but sometimes like, was I, that makes me feel good. You were, I'll take it. Okay. Okay. What's next. Before we let you go, we wanna tell you about a new series from one of our fellow radio, Tokyo shows the award winning kitchen sisters. It's called the keepers stories of activists, archivists rogue librarians, curator's collectors, historians protectors of the free flow of information and ideas. Here's a little clip from one of the episodes from the kitchen sisters, every art form as their standards that they've placed in the canon mathematics science. Everybody has their great and somebody placed them day. People in visual art world. They, hey, okay. This is what's going in the little misses it and I think hip hop is the same thing. This is the archive. Take a listen to the keepers on the kitchen sisters present. It's available on your favorite podcast app. It also at kitchen sisters, dot org. Radio. Ex-.

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Show #697: FAMILY Magazine

Army Wife Talk Radio

54:03 min | 1 year ago

Show #697: FAMILY Magazine

"<music> attention army wives fall in you've come to the right place. <music> talk radio is the leading and longest running podcast providing the latest reports stories interviews and more power you on your military spouse journey <music> <music> <music> welcome to the show. I'm your host debbie. Cunningham and you're listening to army wife talk radio the leading and longest running podcast of its kind this is number six hundred ninety seven and today's monday august fifth breath two thousand nineteen and i'm your co hosts me andy gibson. We have a great show planned for you. This evening or features guests tonight is joe. Oh megan is publisher of family magazine v magazine for military families. Joe talked with us about the family owned firm that puts out military publications including including family magazine and salute magazine. You can connect with family magazine on social media through facebook <hes> w._w._w. Dot facebook book dot com slash family magazine on instagram a family underscore at underscore the under store the commentary or visit their website at w._w._w. Dot family media dot com also tonight. Our our new six brittany will share about how the defense logistics agency troops support has recently partnered with the army joint culinary center of excellence or j._c. see c._o._e. To provide six newly designed food trucks to military bases across the country before we get into our show content we would like to take a moment went to honor those victims of mass shooting that occurred this weekend on the line right now. We have a w n coltie member should we didn't all block from fort bliss texas. Hey debbie. Hey debbie mandy listeners. This portion of the broadcast was certainly not got a welcome or a planned addition for tonight. I've you know this past weekend was one of shock violence and lots both in pasa texas near fort bliss and then just a few hours later in dayton ohio master shooters took the lives of twenty nine total people injuring dozens of others are avian core team grievous with each of these communities and our entire nation. We're fervently praying the victims their families citizens of el paso in dayton and the united states of america. We are a country who although shaken and morning we will not be broken listeners. We ask that you now join us as the honor those who lost their lives this weekend <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> u._s. there and to those also stationed here with me at fort bliss and those in dayton you will remain in our prayers for the days weeks and months to come. They just be a time where nation comes together. We are not only hashtag. El paso strong hashtag dayton strong but we are hashtag strong. Thank you for that tribute sereda and yes to all of our listeners our thoughts and prayers whereas will remain with our great country as move forward and begin the healing process if you're listening to our show live right now now the a._w._s. core team on twitter and would love to chat with you. Send us a tweet at army wise network dot com and use the hashtag armie wise to participate in the conversation leaks to all the resources we mentioned during the broadcast well we posted on our twitter feed and the comment section below the show oh post on our facebook page and below the podcast on blog talk radio dot com slash eight w. t. r. tonight's show is brought to you by your a._w._s. Fourteen we are a dedicated group of volunteers. Were passionate about empowering you. In this military life get to know us through our bios on army wives network dot com or you can follow each of us individually on twitter. Get a behind the scenes look into our army lies to. We're just it's like you so mandy. Let's do a little catching up before we move on with the show. What's happening in your army wife life. Oh goodness well. We have had <hes> quite a busy day today. <hes> we had my youngest daughter order starting daycare for the first time today. She has been <hes> home with me. While i try to work and my day job <hes> and it's been quite difficult since she's starting to crawl around and get into so yeah and so forth <hes> certainly blessing and thankful that i have a job where i can work from home and that my daughter was able to stay home with me the first first nine months of her life so very very thankful for that but she did start daycare today so <hes> there must be one of those yeah yeah it is and it kind of like one of those bittersweet moments because <hes> i was like oh okay so i'll i'll have a little cubby a little a bit more productive today but it was also this is the first day that she's been away from me all day ever oh my goodness so yeah so yeah and and it is and and she was fine and of course worth dropped her off and she just played and just like looked at me like by mom and she had a great day was phase. I probably cried <music>. She didn't all yeah so we've been doing that and and <hes> and then it kind of coincides with so then my my older daughter she was in daycare but her last day was last week and then she starts pre k. <hes> <hes> in two weeks so i kinda traded one for the other so my younger one was home with me and my older daughter was in <hes> daycare and now <hes> my older daughter is home with me and till mid august when school starts for her to start pre k. so then she turning every time yeah yeah. I think that she's really excited about that too. We i worked a little bit. You know earlier today okay and then we went to the library and so <hes> got a few other things planned over the next couple of weeks before she starts pre-k riquet but you know again. It's kind of bittersweet too because i'm like oh well. These are the last two weeks i have with her and then she is going to be starting you know public school and then both of them are gonna be gone all day so i'm. I'm sad but you know there's good to come with that too so anyway. All all those big go yeah it is and if you know it's summertime has towards the end of the summer her and you know change kids going back to school or going to day care. You know mom's going back to work and all that stuff so i always always see this like as another transition time you know bill terry roaming mission and this is that old and other transition time again where you know you're getting ready for the changes the other whether they're going to pre k. or daycare or college or high school. It's there's still much change going on at this time of year. Oh yeah for sure for sure so i mean it's <hes> it's crazy and i see all the all over the place to you. Walk into the the store and people are school shopping and <hes> getting a haircut and all that good stuff for you know before before school starts in all those changes so are you guys you know kind of prepping for that or what's been going on with you all well. You know i'm i'm on the other end of the spectrum so my daughter's getting ready to go. She just finished high school <hes> so she's today we took her to <hes> find her classes where they're gonna be on the campus and everything and because she's going to go here local and <hes> so that was exciting and we you know because i'm like my baby's going to college you know and so it was you know yet another transition and the you know the whole signaling the end the <hes> summer and and getting ready for these new changes. She got her first real her own car yesterday and again instilling big changes <laughter> you guys but i feel it is but it's like you were saying it's bittersweet so you really happy but it's like oh my gosh you know she's not little. She's not little anymore. These are big things going on so <hes> but <hes> i'm trying to embrace it and just be proud that you know she is at this point clean and you know that my husband i've done a good job so far raising her and fission <laughter> you know she's really trying to get get out on the world and and do her own thing so it's really exciting asset but <hes> <hes> it's exciting it said but i will say the other sad we went to the commissary because it is into summer and you know finally getting ready to start having everybody back in the groove proven <hes> my goodness that i deal from because everybody's gonna be back eating regular schedule and buying everything because we were everybody was lax like okay not ready for this part of going back to school of buying food and stuff everybody in the house we were enjoying that really lacks summer schedule title where everybody just ate whatever and stan witches and it was like okay commissary. I don't like you right now. See see and it's so funny because we are at opposite ends of of of the stages of children's life because i feel like now that my daughter is here with me all she wants to do a no. I kind of like i kind of feel like the opposite. I'm having to like buy more and more snacks because she's just like i'm hungry. Every ten seconds where at school she just kind of stay so busy with playing and they're just more on a schedule. I mean she's got a pretty good schedule here but she still always like m._d._x. Swear swear every forty five minutes. I'm hungry. I need a snack. I need a piece of cheap but i you know i mean i will say you know <hes> so at least she healthy but yeah so i get it but just the opposite. I'm looking forward to school starting since i know for sure what she's going to be easy to not all the time so <laughter>. Oh i know i miss those days. I do miss those days <laughter> so yeah well. Yeah yes so listeners. It looks like it's time for a short break and <hes> stay tuned as we will hear from our new six britain brittany in just a few moments protective home and family from disaster steve us courage wisdom hello and his camera phone that should do it goes steve by simply taking digital pictures of his family's important documents. Steve can always have them stored safely online. No matter when disaster strikes learn other simple ways to protect your home family before a natural disaster at ready dot gov job ready dot gov method from fema dot com <music> family <music> you can use with our headline time for your army wife talk radio live news <music> <music>. Welcome back with nurse. We have our new six brittany on the line bringing us your needs to know news news hybrid. What do you have for us this week well this week. We have some news recently. The defense logistics agency troop support partnered with the army's joint culinary center of excellence. Which is the j._c. Theo e. to provide six newly designed food trucks to the military bases across the country. The golden food trucks are to give the u._s. Army soldiers who are training in remote locations on an installation still have the chance to get a fast and tristesse meal from nearby food truck instead of meeting to leave the base for fast food or trucking all the way back to dining facility when they're training bringing yeah that's really interesting and food trucks so popular right now they're everywhere and kind of the craze and just everybody's using them particularly seen him at weddings and all kinds of stuff so can you tell us more about the program and the basis that the food trucks will be located yeah so right now. The first of these new vehicles may the way to fort drum new york as of july nine and the remaining five trucks will be sent to fort bragg north carolina fort hood texas so feel barracks hawaii fort riley kansas this and fort bliss texas according to dean school indoor for integrated support team chief within the substance supply chain food equipment branch ah kneeling before the food trucks all name the culinary outpost you get quick and healthy meals to soldiers in locations where they cannot not get to a dining facility in a timely manner such as when their training at the field environment going door for said food trucks also have soldiers soldiers healthier and more cost effective alternatives to eating based by fast food. If a soldier leaves the base they have to pay for meals out of pocket. They we're getting a better meal by doing this going door for said adding that folger's can use their daily food stipend at the food trucks by slapping their common access card. Wow that sounds like several basis. We'll get to take advantage of the food trucks so who's gonna manage food trucks and what the the training process so. I figured truck who started in fort drum new york before all the others so that the j. a._c._t. Staff receive training on the new food truck so the staff will then go on to train folks at six other bases said who's being milan a senior food systems analysis with j._c. That's really great. Can you tell us a little bit more about <hes>. Maybe how many soldiers assist trucks and sarah and also are there certain menus that they offer yeah of course well believe it or not. It's served two hundred to three hundred soldiers per meal three times today wow disney'll. We'll have three to five customizable options. All the trucks are quick with appliances like mimi presses and air the friars and microwave according to milan the program and its menus are part of the army's holistic health and fitness campaign which focuses on improving proving the entire soldiers from physical fitness and nutrition education menus are also developed with the help of dietitian and they follow the j._c._p. <music> only basic daily food allowance seems like a lot of thought went into this program. <hes> what are some of the features you know. The food trucks offer well. There's some really cool features on these trucks okay so for an an example the equipment on the truck eliminate heat transfer milan stated. There's also stainless steel appliances encounters which are connected to that degree cannot fall between and that makes cleaning a lot easier. Technologies also really feature on the trucks. There's digital menu boards that hangs out on front and listed daily food options soldiers placed their order on a touchscreen below the menu ford where the order can be customized that sounds so awesome really really cool and i'm sure that many soldiers will be excited about these food trucks an opportunity to try. Try them out when they're a training. So can you tell us <hes> when the other bases can expect food trucks to arrive well according according to go door for all six trucks to be delivered by the year awesome brittany. Thank you so much for bringing this story mandy. Let's see hot on a._w._s. This past week all right. Well i thought for a._w._s. Man is a blog by experience contributor m._s._i. About one of the things military spouses are good at empowering other military spouses and we're right. Sometimes it feels like we're fighting an uphill battle will and our day to day life as our spouse trains for and fights in real battles. Many of us know what it feels like to feel completely alone. Maybe you've wanted to change that. Maybe you're tired of seeing spouses tear each other down when our circumstances often do that enough already instead. Maybe you're looking for ways to ability to other up m._s. Share some ideas of what it looks like to empower other spouses. One thing is don't be a bully on social media. Some friends is it really only takes a little kindness on social media outlet to empower someone who's possibly struggling searching for answers even venting about something next the volunteer with the f. r. g. and make the best kind of effort gene. You can also take classes and be informed and one thing that you can make a really big difference in someone's is lies and possibly yours is reaching out to new spouses and help them begin to fill integrated into their community and remember reminds us of how how much we truly empower others with these final words pave the way for the spouses standing in line behind you. Advocating for yourself is the best way to empower empower other spouses shine a light for the spouses around you because if we don't then who will to read the rest of the blog visit 'em as empowering story here <hes> army wife network dot com slash how to empower other military spouses debbie. You had a lot of experience as a military spouse so tell a little bit about how you empower their military spouses so yes. I've been around the block a little bit <hes>. I guess i'm a season south <hes> but i guess for impairment i always lean towards what was done towards me by a few you stand out spouses and that was to be myself and to introduce myself as just debbie and you know let them you see my story is just like there's and i started you know as maybe wife and knowing nothing being you know miles and miles away from family and just feeling lost and that you know it's okay to feel like that and other people who are season who've been there. You need to look up to them and so that's how i want to empower them to make them feel like they're not alone <hes> that that's been my go-to and i think army wise network we do that for each other and we do that first bosses and <hes> <hes> i think that's why i truly enjoy being part of this team because it's all about empowering those other spouses and being there for them <hes> so that they don't feel lost in the sauce talk kind of <hes>. What about yourself. What do you do or has anybody empowered you or do you empower other both yeah yeah i mean i think absolutely i think i'm i'm a little bit seasoned now. If if you will as well but in our member you know not long ago. I was that new military spouse else coming in and the people who really made the biggest impact and <hes> you know empowered me where those who stood by my side and supported me and like you you said you know just in the encouragement speaking for yourself at and <hes> you know learning and and just being there for you and guiding you because you know sometimes hindes especially as a newer spouse. You don't understand some of the things that happened and you don't feel confident. In <hes> you know to to be a part of the effort g or to <hes> you know ask questions that you need to know the answers to and so <hes> i have sent now. Try to be that <hes> <hes> for other military spouses as well. I am a her last. <hes> final words were paid the way for the spouses seaney line behind. You and i think that that that that's true because if we don't support each other like she says that who who will so absolutely totally agree on that one that was <hes> really good way and i. I believe the same way always have to pave the way yes yes. Yes yes <laughter> <hes> so we recently had a popular graphic on our facebook page that said yes. It is still summer but who has started shopping for school supplies and enclose. Where was your best deal found so far checkout so many answers and add your own by heading over to our facebook page. Listen these sure to stay to after a quick break. We'll be chatting with joe moved night. The publisher sure family magazine. We'll be right that comeback for the dog show up next. We have satchmo satchmo who is a member of the shelter pet group. That's right a group known especially for their couch snuggling ball chasing face licking tail wagging backyard hanging and of course companionship and what breed would you say such as i have to go with. Maybe a lavish terrier hound joie looking kind of mix tremendous. I'd also like to point out. Satchmo is coloring a white grey pretty brown black brindle simply marvez. You know it's such a treat to watch them job action. He makes eye contact with his pass. That's actually known as the tweet stare how intuitive and now ups exciting turning in circles happy dance so coming with this group and finally loving facebook right now just gets in there and well licks fantastic but really the best way to know an amazing shelter pet alexandra is to meet one visit the shelterpetproject dot org today adopt brought to you by maddie's fund the humane society of the united states and the ad council <music> product or service our listeners reach thousands of military families worldwide via army wife network army wife network dot dot com has a limited number sponsorship opportunities available army wife network dot com slash sponsorship or email info army anyway network dot com for details <music>. Welcome back army me why talk radio i'm debbie cunningham and and andy gibson joining lina tonight as our guest is justice are muggy night. Joe is the president and publisher of family media a long island new york based company. The family family owned firm puts on military publications including family in salute to lifestyle magazines that combined carry a circulation of almost a million million and are distributed globally. Welcome to the show hi debbie hi debbie hi mandy when you went to be here. Thanks for having me. We're glad you're here with us so right on how about this can and i get the pronunciation on your last name because i i know i butchered. It and i want to apologize. Can you just tell me about your life. That's okay. It's mugler the muck ni- okay there it. I will never miss it up again. I promise <laughter> people trying to pronounce that one so some us all right so family. Media is a family run business <hes>. Can you tell us how your family got involved in. Military magazine publishing sure sure actually started with my dad joe. Oh mug nice senior <hes> he had just come out of a four year stint in the army. <hes> came back to new york where he grew up started working for a company that published i a actually a newspaper called overseas weekly <hes> it was very big publication in europe and the pacific <hes> and basically we were the ed representatives representatives for that company for that publication. <hes> we started to work on that that expanded <hes> he found he just loved working in this marketplace <hes> and through a make a long story short <hes> he ended up with some other partners buying out <hes> overseas weekly <hes> and then started in nineteen fifty eight overseas family which was a <hes> overseas we lose more for the troops and family was obviously more for the families <hes>. We want that into the u._s. In around nineteen seventy <hes> not became family magazine. Wow oh so. It's been around for quite some time yeah yeah so we just <hes> just over sixty years now. We've been doing family since i can fifty so i yeah i'm a army army brat and i remember my mom getting that way back like way back in the eighties and stuff and you know her clipping coupons and you know here. I am doing the same thing. It's it's kinda neat so since i know it's been around that long and you told me sixty years how has publishing changed during all that time <hes> well well. You know it's funny because it's changed and it hasn't all at the same time <hes> as you just mentioned you know back in the seventies and eighties people were clipping coupons <hes> <hes> today people are still clipping coupons. <hes> obviously the digital era has come in <hes> is digital publications. There's online coupons runs. <hes> there's a lot of different <hes> things to be had through the internet <hes> and we're embracing all of that <hes> we have you know a website facebook doc presence just like everyone else <hes> but in a lotta ways it all comes right back to in just <hes> supporting the commissary and exchange shopper by distributing right eight at the commissary <hes> getting the publication at the consumer's hands so they can have the information the coupons and specials that we offer yes i. I know when we go in the commissary. There's usually someone sitting there you know every now and then and they're handing you out the coupons in the magazine right there. I i know <hes> clipping. I'm a big coupon clipper and that was always a big deal to make sure i got my little magazine with those coupons that i knew that day as i'm doing my shopping and then there's like recipes and then a little cool story so <hes> i know i've been a big fan. I've always just tended to find that and just look those story story <hes> but anyway going back to get off of me. How has the military changed during that time that you your family's been the publishing the magazine <hes> well. There's been a lot of big changes that <hes> indirectly affect what we do <hes> the biggest. This change was the transition from a draft to avant will volunteer army or volunteer service. I should say <hes> de reports wants. The nineties came around. We had the downsizing the brac with the base closures <hes> and through today. We've got a lot of budget concerns within the market. <hes> the commissaries is i'm sure you you probably know <hes> come series well funded by tax dollars <hes> so it's really kind of almost at the whim of congress that becomes ares get to exist <hes> so it's been a big fight that in in that regard and <hes> the changes that the commissaries and even the exchanges have seen over those years have have really impacted you know what we can do <hes> and how we can go to market with everything to reach the shopper it's really interesting and and so myself my kind of background i work in digital general marketing and so i you know have kind of been on that swing of i've worked in traditional marketing before and now working in digital marketing and so so to talk through that we talk about all these changes so what has really been the biggest challenge <hes> for for magazines today. What's the biggest challenge you guys faced the that's. That's actually it's an interesting question. It's two different things in in the general marketplace the biggest challenge that <hes> publications facing is the internet <hes> and i'll use that term to encompass you know digital as well as you know the web as we know it. <hes> you know you used to have to wait a month for that magazine next magazine to come out. <hes> you know whatever your the interest area of interest may have been <hes> nowadays that information is just information overload. You know you can get everything in real time basically online align so that's impacted the magazine industry <hes> what we do is more of a shopper magazine. <hes> you know deals and coupons and special. Oh pricing promotions <hes> we're more censored along that long in that fall's kind of into a different area <hes> digital coupons funds obviously become very big <hes> and they're a great way to save some money <hes> but from from where we're standing there's a lot of problems with that would security the <hes> potentially being able to print hundreds and thousands of coupons and misuse them <hes> so so that's something that's kind of hampered the <hes> you know the real widespread use of that kind of thing right okay so and that completely makes sense so i can. I can see where both of those you know challenges for you all but i know we talked about and and you know debbie. It was either even saying she remembers. You know back in the eighties when you know her family. Would you know clip coupons as well so you guys have been around for more than sixty years. So can you talk to us about what is families mission and has it changed or evolve over the sixty years and all the changes that that we've talked about <hes> yeah sure it's you know really our mission has always been and still remains to serve serve the military family <hes> and primarily by family the commissary exchange shop <hes> that's <hes> you know the for lack of a better term since you guys are the army wives that work. It really comes down to the military wise. That's in in most cases the person who shop in the commissary massery the head of the family <hes> person you know stocking that cupboard for the family we want to support that turns whether it's through the coupons special deals <hes> articles recipes. You know what to cook for dinner next week. <hes> you know travel shopping to anything of interest <hes> that we can do to make their life a little bit easier little more enjoyable. <hes> certainly make the shopping in triple little more enjoyable well. I've enjoyed it too so i'm right there with debbie. I certainly think it'd be the of it so we we do appreciate that <hes> and so the kind of touch on that so family magazine is distributed specifically at the commissary by hand so can you talk to us a little bit about why specifically you tell us that method <hes> sure <hes> we introduce japan distribution in about nineteen seventy six <hes> and have been doing it ever since <hes> prior to that it was all on take one basis the reason when we went to hand distribution really coincided with the rise and coupons in the marketplace is coupons became more prominent and <hes> exactly for the reasons as you mentioned earlier with digital coupons <hes> it's a security <hes> you know it sure helps us get the publication into the shoppers hands leads <hes> makes them aware of it <hes> but also to prevent misuse of coupons so <hes> joe we need to take a quick break and when we come back we'd love to hear more about all the coupons and discounts that are offered in family magazine listeners be sure to stay tuned to hear about even more or reasons to pick up the family magazine while you're at the commissary will return with more army wife talk radio in just a moment. Here's some good money advice fine money buddies. These are people who share your values and are living financially responsible lives. This is a money minute from in charge foundation and military money dot com remember the warning be careful about the company you keep it's no secret that our friends influence our behaviors especially when it comes to the money so why not surround yourself with good influencers here's some traits to look for in the money buddy someone who was said financial goals and it's working toward them someone who is not afraid to drive an old car overdo the latest gadget. If you find you do not have many money but he candidates in your life already look for bloggers and online communities that reflect your money values trade tips and read success stories. According to the brookings institute about one third of american households live paycheck to paycheck sixty. Six percent of these families are middle-class. Breaking out of this cycle is difficult and requires hard work irc support in daily stimulation finding a money buddy to share your journey with can help you stay. The course is money men and is made possible by in charge that solution. Is that us online at w._w._w. You w dot incharge dot org <music> band your military information <music> army wife network dot com offers military family news and resources <music> experience social media and much much more visit army wife network dot com your interactive for army wide by <music> <music>. Welcome back to the show. Well we're talking with joe mungai <hes> president and publisher of family media joe before we went to break. I asked if you could share with us about the coupons. Military families can find in the publication and so have coupons always been a part of the family publication because like i remember i was telling you earlier i remember my mom having them and she made me and my sister cuts them out when we were a younger <hes> but so is it that has been one of the main stays of the magazine <hes> i actually not in the beginning <hes> coupons coupons only started to become big around the mid nineteen seventies <hes> that's when the f._s._i. Explosion kind of took place in the civilian marketplace on the f._s._i.'s being those coupon flyers you find or at least used to find in the sunday newspapers then people had delivered to their homes. <hes> the the <hes> the marketing thrust <hes> or i should say consumers became very much aware of coupons and what's interesting is the military market tends to coupon at about twice the level of the civilian market <hes> so a lot of our advertisers started to really get on the coupon bandwagon around the mid nineteen seventies and from there. It really took off <hes> that's when we started about nineteen. Seventy five is when we started putting coupons on the cover of the magazine <hes> 'cause what's really the interesting about our publication is unlike other magazines and other markets. We're distributed at the entrance of the store so you can get our coupons as you're walking into the store. Use them on that. Same shopping trip and of course publication is available always free of charge to shoppers so the coupons become a real valuable things for the shopper to us <hes> right away. She can just clip them using on that same shopping trip. <hes> coupons always say since the seventies in a very big thing and family and that's kind of our mainstay. Oh yeah i i definitely we do the same thing. I get frustrated with myself. When i start i grab it and then i you know when my list and i'm shopping and then i get up to the register and pulling out my coupons and then i realized oh i didn't flip through the magazines really good deals and walking out. I find that i missed out on like six dollars. I'm like no <music> missed out again. Sorry my phone. Coupons are still good on the next shopping trip so save them and use them absolutely do every time i promise so i understand understand you were the impetus behind the founding of the loot magazine which started publishing in nineteen eighty five so can you tell us a little bit. How salute came <music> out sure sure i actually started with the company in nineteen eighty three <hes> <hes> we were are basically from that time looking at ways to expand and different things that we could doing side the market <hes> when in after a little bit of study we learned that there was basically nothing targeting the young single soldier <hes> there was nothing out there covering that side of the market <hes> there were other other publications covering the older career people. There are things for officers do things for families nothing for the young soldier <hes> so we we put together the concept of salute magazine and actually when we started <hes>. I'll give a little shout out to gentlemen don. Hurst was a <music> out war correspondent during the vietnam era <hes> for the army times <hes> and he actually came to work for us as the executive editor salute for many years on just recently passed away about two years ago <hes> but <hes> great guy to work with helped us start the publication and it's just like family. It's a lifestyle south publication but for a different side of the marketplace <hes> it's just some light reading always positive always pro military we do things like sports travel so <hes> dating <hes> fitness all kinds of things but always with a military twist you know when we're going to cover a a major league pitcher will find a major league pitcher who has served in the military and has an interesting story to tell them the market can relate to so it's the type of thing you could find a bunch of other publications if you look but nothing with that military twist on that could really bring it home and <hes> make it relatable relatable for the marketplace. That's really interesting. I i like how you put that spin on it. <hes> very nice for the for the military community to have something that's specific to them so really cool <hes> so your son joe junior recently joined the family business so that must have been really exciting for you to see your son follow in your and your father so share with us your thoughts on continuing family legacy. It is exciting. It's very interesting <hes> three generations in the same business doing the same thing. <hes> joe really enjoys being part of the company <hes>. It's great working with him <hes> i i learned a lot about dealing with family members in the business for my dad who was very good at it so <hes> <hes> it it's we we got along real well. We have a great working relationship. <hes> what really i i. The difference for me is somebody at my age would start to look towards retirement. I guess at some point in the future <hes> instead i'm looking at you know hopefully fully another sixty years <hes> that he and potentially a grandson or granddaughter of mine would get involved in the business <hes> and continue the legacy <hes>. It's really labor love. We love working in this marketplace. <hes> i've met so many great people then involved with so many great organizations organizations <hes> it's just you know i i mean you know. Serving america's greatest you know are here. <hes> there's nothing more fulfilling than that. <hes> you know my dad did it out of love. I do it out of love as as my son <hes> so so it's <hes> where we're really ought to be a part of this marketplace so fantastic and great to hear that there is such such passion behind you know your business and what you stand by <hes>. I'm sure that that just only adds to why you all are so a successful so tell us a little bit. What's next for family media. Do you guys have any plans to expand into the digital marketplace and it was talk about digital a lot to talk a little bit <hes> yes we. We've got a few things on the horizon where actually for the first time planning to put family magazine online <hes> we're developing digital flip book <hes> where readers can go online to our website website family media dot com <hes> and actually see the current publication read the articles. Get the recipes <hes> we're. We're working on a plan to distribute coupons online but <hes> as i mentioned earlier there's a lot of security concerns around that so that may be a little further down the road <hes> but as far ars the information and what's available and to your point you won't have to forget or forget to look at what coupons in the publication because now you can look online and actually see what's there <hes> so you can plan ahead to pick it up and use those coupons on that shopping trip so joe. I have jumped in again. Sorry mandy didn't mean to cut you off but i wanted and i was so so excited the last time going to come theory. 'cause i told you i go to comes there and do my wants my shopping. I grand magazine and low behold. I i opened the magazine clip and i see my picture in there with <hes> to other of our a._w._s. Core team crystal or owner and carolina carolina another person who runs actually talk show radio here and we're right there splashed in the middle of your magazine. It was really exciting <laughter> <laughter>. I'm glad you liked it. We were happy to feature you. <hes> you guys are doing some really nice things out there and <hes>. It's definitely something we wanna. Oh let our readers know about well. We very honored to be in <hes> family magazine and it just it really meant a lot to me and i know crystal. It's all in carolina just our a._w._s. Family as a whole so thank you for featuring us all right our pleasure or pleasure joe. Can you tell our listeners where they can find out more about family magazines. <hes> sure you're sure <hes> our main website with the family media dot com <hes> it's all one word family media <hes> we're also on facebook facebook dot dot com slash family magazine again family magazine all one word <hes> we're on instagram which i still have some problems with this handled but it's family underscore at underscore the underscore commissary <hes> that that that's certainly mouthful <hes> but between facebook instagram ramming our website <hes> those are the three main ways to get in touch with us <hes> we love to hear from readers and that really is kind of my favorite thing about the whole digital <hes> world whether it's facebook or instagram or a website <hes> you know readers have direct access to us. They could talk to us. They could tell us what they like what they don't like what they wanna see <hes>. It's it's not our magazine. It's your magazine. <hes> the readers you know if you wanna see something. Please let us know and we'll be happy to put it in there for you. <hes> and that's what it's always been about. You know we don't try to tell you what you should read you. Gotta tell tell us what you want to say and <hes> and you'll get problems so i have one last question for you. Before we kinda kinda cut out on our show. What is the most rewarding thing <hes> for you with being part of this military publication <hes> family magazine kazini and salute. Oh well <hes> <hes> you you know i'm gonna. I'm gonna answer that different way. <hes> 'cause it's not directly related to the publication but <hes> we recently <hes> through through the publication got involved with an organization asian called adopt a soldier platoon <hes> and the reason i bring them up is <hes> i go to one of their events. Locally every year the big gala dinner they have <hes> and i get to meet eat a lot of soldiers. <hes> and these are people in need <hes> adoptive soldiers support organization <hes> for active active duty active members and veterans <hes> and we've gotten directly involved with individuals who needed health and we're able to connect to them reach out to them and hopefully help them. <hes> and i say that's the most rewarding thing because it's it was a one on one direct interaction interaction with people <hes> and actually do something that can help them directly so <hes> you know i it's it's all about helping people and doing something nice for someone else paying it forward as well. <hes> you know we get to do a lot with family but <hes> and salute but <hes> it's the rewarding things i find it. When i get to actually shake somebody's hand. We'll give somebody a hug. <hes> you know ah when they say thank you that i know health and <hes> do something well. Thank you joe that that was really touching our appreciate you sharing that with us and again. Thank you for taking time to share about your military publications including you know family family and salute and being a part of a._w._s.'s evening with us well. Thank you so much for having me and i really appreciate it a great one. You do so listeners. Thanks so much for being with us tonight. Be sure to tune in in next week monday. August twelfth two thousand nineteen with our guests melissa william creator of night inboxes subscription boxes for couples and families to create memorable monthly experiences as they strengthen their relationships wall enjoying each other's company in the meantime join join us on army waste network dot com to stay connected to resources information expert columnists and share the journey with many of our experience contributors or and you were social media outlets such as facebook twitter pinterest and graham. We are your interactive empowerment government for army wide by army wise. This is army. Why networks core team signing out. Thank you for tuning into army wife talk radio views and opinions expressed in our show personal. The army wife talk radio is in no way affiliated with the department of defense or any other branch of the armed services and inclusion in our show does not reflect endorsed forces the d._o._d. Any local government or their agencies in the next episode overdone army wife network dot com interactive empowerment. The army wives miami <music>.

family magazine army facebook debbie debbie mandy joe new york publisher milan fort bliss twitter salute magazine debbie cunningham Dot united states instagram el paso dayton Joe
#1908: Brake and Seek

Car Talk

54:06 min | 1 year ago

#1908: Brake and Seek

"Support for this podcast and following message. Come from Comcast business having the nation's largest gig speed network was just the start. Now, they're providing gig fueled apps and solutions that exceed expectations and help businesses perform Comcast business beyond fast. Hello and welcome to car talk from National Public Radio with us clicking Clack. The tap it brothers. And we're broadcasting this week department of free and slips here at car talk plaza. I bought my wife, a Freudian. With the match. No, well, listen, I had to mention this. Because this this was a rebound effect. Freudian slip on the part of on the part of my brother. Yeah. Just a few days ago. I was reading my teeth piece of hate mail about the puzzle and its various inadequacies. Yeah. You know, people were be rating, the just the lack of creativity in a magic nation, and there I was feeling kind of more Rosen sad and ready to give up the puzzle not express this to my brother that I was really depressed that I really wasn't doing the job with the puzzle anymore. And he says to me. Yeah. Yo you don't remember have no idea what you're talking about. This is alternate. Freudian slip says to me keep your chins up. Now, I know I've had a few too many kill bus bombs off the coffee truck. Keep your chins up. The discography UC who forgotten. It's a true. Freudian slip. You Senate and you forgot it did your chins up. Right. All right. I said that you did you did. And. All right. All right Ellie. Where were we when this? I have no recollection. We're in the green room preparing for the show. And there was either I was reading all my mail seeing on the detract, but another person age the puzzle because I'm a moron. She saw me up. I keep you keep your chins up. Right. If you'd like to call about your car or your fruit slip, or fruity and girdle. Oh, whatever our number's eight car talk. That's eight two two seven eight two five five. Hello, you're on car talk. Hi. Who's this? Love and Colorado. Libby from Loveland. That's good. So what's up? Libby, lovely Libby from Loveland. We might. Right. Little lovely Lindley from Loveland. We have Tommy saver car. We have a nineteen seventy six dodge dart. That is not my favorite car. It's not. No, it's among his favourite cars. It is not and is not even among my favorite cars because I happen to own a dodge dart. But that doesn't mean the seventy six was among is among anyone's fate six dodge was among the worst cars ever made in this entire planet. You know, that Libby don't heal shoe knows. Well, where's the Russ? Let me let us find out. What Libby Willoughby's coming from his seventies? Okay. The problem we have with vibration, noise. We think it's coming from the back of the car. It's kind of a world sewn. Founded droning abrasion is just give them in in order. We'll send you via the mail. Only problem we have with it only. Probably you have. I'm gonna see if I can reproduce the noise that you get from the back, and I trust is it worse at high speeds letter at high speeds, but it doesn't does it diminish. If you travelling at high speed and take your foot off the gas, right? If we slow down it's love down. But it's always there. The noise more. Oh, that's good. Not really. I was just clearing my throat in preparation. Lovely lady. Libby from Loveland is she's giving us all. How about this? Libby. It's not as high pitched more like. Okay. It is. But when you go faster the pitch doesn't go up to pitch Jew. It just gets more frequent. We'll move ahead tire. Bad tire you believe. So absolutely. That's that's good. I'm glad you describe it. You didn't give us all the wrong answers. You described that perfectly would. That's exactly it. But we check the tires, and they don't seem to have an check them. What did you do take blood pressure cultures? What did you check them? Oh, my husband takes it to see if it had in any irregular wear on it. Pocket protector. Nobody's an engineer. That's enough. Now. It's very very hard to to check tires. I mean, sometimes it's possible to see some things on ties like you might put your hand over it and feel lumps or you might feel a bubble on the inside wall or you might feel that it's really worn out on one side and not on the other but very frequently tires are defective are in bad shape. And you can't tell and what's happened is that the plies the different layers of rubber and whatever else is in there have separated inside the tire. And what happens is they make this characteristic sound of would well when you find out that isn't a tire in right? The next one most likely thing is a bad axle bearing exactly yeah. We thought maybe that might be what the problem to do is take take the tire off and put it someplace else on the car. But what if we don't know what tire over move all take the two rears and put them in the front and see if you can change the dynamics of it. Right. Okay. If you put the tool reason, the front of the two fronts in the rear, see, if the noise goes with it. You may even notice a front end shimmy when you do that that's worse than the one. You already have that you hadn't noticed before this. And if the noise stays in the back, then it probably is an actual berry, which which is very hard to distinguish from a bad tire. It's the axle bearing your husband's right? Thanks so long from Loveland one eight car talk or one eight eight eight two two seven eight two five five alot, you're on car talk. Hi, I'm Kevin. I'm calling from Los Angeles. I kept what's up? Well, I have a nineteen Eighty-four Pontiac six thousand S T E that has the electronic instrument cluster. All so it has a digital display has a digital speedometer and raft for fuel and right temperature. Yeah. And I haven't inoperative fuel gauge and the rest of everything else works fine head my mechanic work on it. And he came to the conclusion that there was one of three things that was wrong with a few. They want us to pick. We'll have a one in three being right? And that's better than we usually have. He says he says the problem. He's got is. He doesn't want to work on the car because he says since he doesn't know what's wrong. Everything has special order, and he says, it's be really. Expensive. This guy's a wimp but never stops. Every the wheels. Stop that. We know what was wrong. Judging. Put my uniform. But wait a minute. How long has this been a mechanic? This. He's been working on my cars burned out. He's just shell shocked. You wanna take any chance? He may be burned out if it's any more challenging than lube oil and filter. You might be done for good. If he doesn't know what it is. He's not going to take any chances on somebody else's condo. He's gonna learn. He says it's the sending unit. That's my vote or he says, it's the gauge itself. Yeah. It's all it's the circuit board that the gauges attached to that runs. All the gauges back. They're not that he could be. But if with that than the other gauges wouldn't whenever work he left out the fourth possibility should pray for and that is a bad connection. I mean, two of the three that he gave only one is viable if you didn't live in LA. I'd say that the bed connection was very likely very likely possibility. There are no you can't make any bed connections in LA. Everything's I miss. I miss three planes in LA. No. Because in the great frozen north here. We have rosters factor, right and salt that they put on the role. Don't get me sawn on salt. We'll talk about that later, but in California and southern California. Least you don't have that problem. Right. So you probably do not have a bad connection. Doesn't mean that a wire couldn't have fallen off. Here. We are this is what an eighty four. Have you had this? This answer is going to knock your socks off. Have you had exhaust system worked on lately? Kev. No. That was about forty thousand mile connect you need a new fuel tank sending unit. That's right. So I'll take this to the dealer. Bring. Take it to the dealer ma-. You obviously can't go back to Frederico who of Hollywood whatever his name is. So you're gonna have to take it to someone who's got got some his willington dropped the tank and then put the sending unit him. Okay. You need cost you I'm gonna give you a around round figure one hundred and thirty seven dollars and eighty nine Saul we had floating. Forty years now back over. It's gonna cost you over one hundred bucks one hundred three hundred. Three hundred one time you'd pay five hundred to get this fix get a stick. You gotta yardstick. Yeah. Just poke it in there when it's if it's not wet you're out of gas. Using the trip down there. So far works pretty well. That requires that, you really use your brain gauges require any except your eyesight, and you need to fix it. Right. Because you will run out of gas sooner or later guaranteed. Well, and I want to sell it at some point. And I figured that. I should sell with a functioning gas gauge that was good for you. Yeah. That's a that's a nice gesture, but have somebody put a sense not associated with the auto motive business, nor you'll lawyer correct on votes. Nice view call. Bye. Bye. One eight car talk or one eight eight eight two two seven eight two five five low you're on car talk. My name is Michelle, Michelle. How are you? I'm just fine. Where are you from? I'm I live in Dallas Dallas. Yeah. One of favorite cities, Dallas New York. Oh, no. Fever. No, no, no, Dallas, Texas. What's up, Michelle? I have a friend actually who has a nineteen ninety one Hyundai excel. And when he steps on the break, it's a stick shift when he steps on the brake radio station changes. We're very confused. Just wacko day. Here talk plaza. Like to find out if you guys can explain why this is happening. Sure that if I ask you a couple of simple questions like the color of the car and things like that. My brother will come up with a suitably Wackle theory to explain this is this a red excel as they all are. No, this is actually a navy. Blue excel navy blue. I don't think I've ever seen in. There will be able to answer. When did the accident take place as far as he knows? He did purchase it year old. But as far as he knows has not been involved in an accident when he steps on the break, the station changes. Is it always change to the same station? It usually moved one station up the dial now. Okay, if he backs up and steps to the brain. No, it's it's still moves up the dial. And if he steps on the break again, it'll just keep seeking the next station. It'll keep doing this all time. Great feature. Those holidays have fun. It's a good way. I mean, other people have a button on the dashboard that you have to press this way. You can do it with your foot. Okay. That's that's good. Thanks for the information. Michelle had to have made this up. I'm not Z taken any place to have any. He's not interested. Right. He's not. I mean, you know, he's a poor student, and he really can't afford to do anything. It's kind of fun. Actually. I mean, you know, drive around and people think it's real fun. And it doesn't reliably every time. He steps in the break seeks the next station. Usually if he just taps the break. It doesn't do it. But if he presses depresses it more than halfway let's say the car is actually slowing down the words if you were stopped repeatedly applied the brake. That's a good question. It probably wouldn't know. Oh, so he got me moving for this to happen. Yeah. And he installed his radio himself. No. He didn't know he bought the car. Second hand in the radio was there already. It's the factory factory radio. Well, I suspect I mean, I don't know how radios work, but, but I think that what's happening is somehow he's interrupting the flow of current to the radio, but you when he hits that break momentarily. This sounds like a crock to me not home and telling the flow of current to the radio is being interrupted, right? And it's somehow triggering that is Sikhs right at seeking. Pigeon instinct perfect sense to me. Sure, he something's moving. You know, it's moving I'm telling you what's moving. I'll tell you. What moving Jerry. I know. It's moving. The antenna wire doesn't make it go to the next. I'll bet you this radio doesn't even have the seek feature. Does it? No, it does it does. It does. I'm telling you the signals getting weak, and somehow or another it's getting weak because rain. This motion. Stepping on the pedal per se motion, it's the rapid slowing the G forces that unit the deceleration force. We say goodbye. Okay. I'm sure that somewhere in our great listening audience. There must be a couple of electrical engineers, and we will get an answer. And we will listen every week electrical engineer has no more chance at figuring this out than no. You're gonna figure it out Michelle reach up onto the dashboard. Next time, your friend is driving. See if you can touch the radio. Okay. And when he steps on the break, but if you're holding onto the radio, you'll get electrocuted. Won't this won't happen? You think it won't? I think maybe the ground is being interrupted by the motion of the radio the connection is being interrupted by the motion of the radio from the breaking you may have something. I may I'm getting a heading then again. I may try that Michelle. And if that works don't call us back we won't be able to help you anymore. But at least you'll know that. No. But actually, this is the way that we get people to listen twice because we found we did a survey we found out that no one had ever heard our show twice. Questions. There's no reason there's no reason to tune tune in again. So this way, we don't answer few questions at random, and then someone will write us with the correct answer. And you you and your friend. We get to listeners who will listen again to find out what the real answer is from some electrical engineer, right? And we might friends and family, you know. Plus, maybe we pick up a few people just out of curiosity and we end up with four five people sound good, right? We have to hope that more of our listeners have kids because kids listen to us. Good luck. Michelle. Thanks, much extended families. And what is something arrest home is something we're all the old folks is sitting around listening. They're gonna tune in next week. It could be up to like double digits could be twenty thirty. Listen at one time. Hey, you remember last week's puzzled by any chance why remember last week's puzzle or not even the foggiest. No, I didn't think I will tell you. It's very high caliber puzzling. And I'll be back with the answer in just. This is getting crowded more and more every day you weaken. Phil pfister. You're in the way, it's lane. And do the driver. Why Joe on a pay since the buses got to go right by your house it way that lady with a Walker? Mom, son that chubby stockbroker and the kid into runs. They all in their mortars and said in just one seed minding their own business Lor they don't make a pink. So just keeping quite for the rest of the rise. And keep your baggage is on your own side. And even though the NPR doorman mutters something about the doorknob and the way out every time he hears us saying this is NPR. Hey before we get back to this. Classic car talk episode. Keep in mind that your favorite public radio station is still working every day to bring you up to date news and great new programs and believe it or not your old car can help them do it. That's right that old heap. That's keeping your dipstick low and your Bank balance lower can be picked up wished your station and turned into something truly useful, obviously, not cards. Find out how easy it is. At Carter dot com slash vehicle donation. The world is complicated. But knowing the past can help us understand it so much better. That's where we come in. I'm random Nevada. I'm routine Arab Bluey, and we're the hosts of through line NPR's new history podcast every week. We'll dig into forgotten stories from them. Moments that shaped our world through line history. Like you've never heard it before. Rebecca listening to carts offers us click Clack tapper brothers air, we hear of course to talk about cars car repair. And of course, the answer to last week's puzzle, which in the interim, I actually remembered you did this very good. Oh here it is during World War Two the common. American foot soldier carried a rifle that used thirty caliber ammunition. Now, you may ask what is a thirty caliber bullet. Well, I looked it up. I didn't really look it up. I had helped and it happens to be seven point six two millimeters. Now when hostilities broke out between the United States, and Japan, the Japanese hardly began to make rifles that would fire a slightly larger that is a thirty one caliber bullet. You would expect the French to be contrary like that. But not the Japanese. They probably had a different reason. They did have a different reason. That man the puzzle question very simply as why did they do that of all the calibers out there? Why did they make a thirty one caliber rifle? Well, one part of it. I think is pretty pretty obvious. And that is if they had to vacate a position in their immunization were captured it would be unusable to the Americans would have to bid doesn't fit in the rifle. That's right. What stick, but the other part of it isn't so obvious if the reverse happened that is if we if the Japanese captured our munition, the smaller caliber bullet would fit in their rifles, and they'd be able to use our bullets the fire on us. By their aim would be bad. Right. Because if it's flopping around there in the barrel is any of these preferable than throwing rocks. Well, now that is a great puzzle. And I know that we are going to get such a raft of male. It's just too simple. I I can take it and they're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get mail from hero. He told himself saying thirty one Calvin you talking head those I never. That's why you guys the thirty calibres your jerks. It may be true. But at any rate if for the the purpose of the puzzle it was good. Whether it's true or not it made a good puzzle. It's a great question right on the basis of the information. You had wrong on not right? Exactly. Do we have a winner? No shows. We go. The winner is Andy Parola from come Wella. A what he come away LA? I sounds winning come weather. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's actually Hawaiian for calm weather. Yeah. Man, come away. As a matter of fact, my pal dusty Chuck went to Hawaii the other day, and he sends postcards saying I'm never coming back. And I can I have your table. I wanted his Lexus. Andy paraly- lives there all the time and for having his answer selected at random from among the thousands of correct dances. We got. And he's going to get a twenty five dollar gift certificate to the car talk shameless commerce division with which he can practically dress himself. I mean as long as dresses. Hey, listen, Hawaii. Yeah. You don't need much. You don't need much. Congratulations and the anyway, we'll have a new drug related puzzle. Coming up third half of today's show. So stay tuned for that. In the meantime, you can call us and ask us questions about anything you want. We do best carquest barely the numbers. Eight car talk. That's eight eight eight two two seven eight two five five lawyer on car talk. Hi, I'm Sunday from Wilmington, Delaware. What's up, then herited, a seventy eight olds cutlass that my dad enjoyed many fine and some not so fine cigars in. And I was wondering if you had any ideas of how I could get rid of years of cigar smoke the open box of baking soda sitting in my front seat. And I have a container full of charcoal briquettes in my backseat. Hasn't done the trick. What kind of upholstery doesn't have? It's a fabric. All wanna Shane isn't that wonderful? We know that smoke rises. So most of the ones of the aroma is probably in the headliner. Well, it is true that probably most of it is up in the headline. But a lot of it is in the seats as well. First of all, I would go and the briquettes are a good idea. But they're not gonna work because what you need is activated charcoal of some kind and the briquettes older eaters. Yeah. I would take a bunch of older eaters, which are also activated charcoal. You may actually be able to buy activated charcoal in some other form, the those things that you you put sneak you're putting your shoes. So that your family doesn't pass out and take your shoes. I'm going to put these things for your seat on the roof of my car. You can put them in. You could just prequel around replace good conversation piece. Well, I mean, you're going to put them there for a while until until the smell goes away. I think you can actually get rid of the smell well there to full ossified here at work you can to plans of attack one is you can try to eliminate the smell. That's playing one. Yeah. Plan to which often easier to accomplish is to just overcome the smell with a stronger yet more on. That never works. The work that never word. What did they make perfume? And that reason I only automobile mechanics do that the guys in the garage, take a shower they sprinkled aftershave lotion all over their bodies. And they think that covers up all the other smells while it's at work. It's certainly our deed. Smelling in with you spilled a bottle of perfume in this car expensive perfume would smell it for the next twenty five years, and it would make us so sick. It would have to be a perfume that you liked. I would try one of these techniques like the older readers, and if it didn't work another thing, you might want to think about is replacing the headliner. All that difficult. I hadn't thought about it being like the Elizabeth Arden fragrances, right? I would go for one of those. But there are products in fact that designed like like activity charcoal that you can probably scrub the upholstery with you wanna go to a call an auto detailer, someone that cleans cars. Yes. Okay. And ask them what they would do because they wanted to this all the time, and then you can buy kin of aerosol, spray, new car, aroma. And also there was a product called simple green. Simple green. Yeah. And what it does is it clean? It's cleaning the upholstery. Okay. Simple. Green wasn't work. How would I know? We don't we don't know. But we have it on good authority that it works. But you know, I think if you leave the windows open as much as you can and do all these things you'll get rid of it. Oh, you'll get used to it. Get used to remind you dear old, dad. Sure, it only has thirty nine thousand miles on it. So it is well worth thirty nine thousand miles and probably that many cigars too. Okay. I'll try. By one eight eight car talk or one eight eight eight two two seven eight two five five alot, you're on car talk. Hey, guys. This is John Kahn from for became an importer Rico. How are you four Buchanan? Yeah. What's fort Buchanan, little tiny army base? Yeah. And what are you guys doing there? We got a little helicopter unit down here, and you work on your tans. You. That's tough duty. It's paradise. But you know, someone's going to call you for maintenance on my car because the people that do maintenance here. Absolutely terrible. Well, we'll see if we can help I have a ninety six Pontiac grand dam, which actually it's been a really good car. And I've I've been real rough on it. But I'm having some transmission problems. Now, I've stayed up all the maintenance and being a helicopter mechanic, obviously, I'm qualified to break anything. That's. Yeah. So the the transmission when I put it into drive, it shifts up normally, and as I drive around the shift from first to second is intermittently very rough. And then the rest of the time it, it drives fine. No, dropping gas mileage no strings noises. The filters been changed the oil's been changed. Is it worse? If if you're really laying on the gas pedal, heavy it's better, if I if I take off it's just move every time, right, right? If you just floor it off the line, right? Florida. As much as you can on a small island. Right. Wind up in the war. So if you start off slowly, then it's more likely to to be a rough shift. It comes up real high and that that's slams into second. And it's crazy. And now since I did maintenance now when I put it in reverse the speedometer jumps up to ten and then kicks back down almost every time. But without it doesn't move the car. There's no strange noises. It just now it seems to be doing that. Now. Really? Yeah. Isn't that great? You all that is interested in reverse and the speedometer moves. Yep. You you don't have access to any diagnostic equipment besides the they hammers and chisels using the fixed the helicopter. You don't have to earn like that. I could I could have this one couldn't. I wish in that case. His what I'm going to suggest that one piece of information. You inadvertently gave us men on inadvertently. But maybe not on purpose. Was that the speedometer moves when you put it in reverse, and I think you could have a bad vehicle speed sensor because the vehicle speed sensor is what tells the computer went to shift. The transmission? Okay. One of the things that does with that not affect the rest of the gears because everything else is just it. Just just fine. It it might not. I mean, it's maybe it's only bad one little range. Okay. Try I mean cheap. Okay. Able to get one and you have to make one. The never buys anything. If they if they need a bolt they go to the hardware store and buy for six cents. They'll have four guys working on the lane the machine drag the Bridgeport soldier we're gonna make this bolt. So you might have to make one I absolutely cannot are anything that you've just. We'll they got a lot of guys with too much time where the hands. There's always, you know, so much tanning. You can do when you're there. Well, we do a lot of flying through. So we are earning are paying well. And you're protecting us. We appreciate it. Thanks, john. Hey, just let you guys go. Yeah. I've been to a lot of different places. And I I gotta tell you. I'm originally from New York and usually make the trip from used to be at fort drum and drive down to my house and Rochester and spend time with family and listen to you guys and Saturday morning, but I have been to Bosnia and Germany and France and all over Europe. And now here Puerto Rico and everywhere I've been I've managed to on a Saturday morning pick up your show. So it's kinda like a little piece of home and both of us that actually listen to it. Spoil it. Spoil. It was going great. I couldn't get anybody else to go. I was once stationed that good old fort drum yet was called fort Ticonderoga. No, I call camp drum. All right because they didn't have liked. Well, John, good luck with your grand damn great talking to you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Both of us who listened to. One eight eight car talk that's eight double to seventy everyone will go on pass this weekend except John Ford. You can't. Eight to five. Hello, you're on car talk. Hi, this is Brenda from Oakland, California. Hi, brenda. I have a car related relationship problem. We should've called last week. Sorry. We can't be bothered with this relationship cramped as we serious. All right. We'll take it. Then what's up? Okay. I always driven cars, automatic transmissions. I've never had any reason to learn how to drive stick. But recently, I've been thinking about asking my boyfriend to teach me how to drive his car, which is an eighty three BMW. Yeah. Worried that if I let him teach me how to drive a stick. It will introduce certain tensions into our relationship. We might just end up killing each other. Not might. But the other problem is that right now, my car is in the garage and his car is in front of in the driveway. So every time I wanna go out. I have to ask him to move his car. Do you live on a hill? No. Real fast. I mean, if the only reason you wanna learn how to drive the stickers to back the car out of the drive on. She is other motives, you really wanna learn how to drive stick shift. Don't you? It would be a good thing. To know. I think I mean, you can you could if you mentioned this tool if you ask for lessons, he's not eager to teach me because he knows he knows you're gonna burn his clutch out. Weren't you just paying for the clutch in advance? It'll be a challenge to him to teach you to drive correctly. Now, I have taught many people that drive stickshift one of whom was my wife, who's a very good driver. But was reluctant to drive it in a half an hour under my expert tutelage and guidance super the clutch. Melted. My goals. No, she learned to become an expert manual shift driver, a few simple lessons, or that's encouraging. No yelling loud. That was that was her first requirement. You yell at me. I'm getting out of the car. Yeah. Let him teach me. Danger. I mean there really is a danger because some people have an aptitude for this and some people just don't. But I think he would know if you have the aptitude for this within about the first minute. And if you don't have it, then he can he can call off the lessons. Tell me you do a minute by minute thing every minute. He's got the option of calling enough. But tell you the w clutches are usually pretty easy to work if there's a car to learn on. That's good has a very good one to learn on. Okay. BMW ice clutch to learn on. Okay. And the nice thing about it is is you won't even know that you're burning it out. The windows smell it. I would save this for like just when you when you know, you're getting ready to break up with the sky save this little activity for those last couple of weeks. And then he can have the op this is great. As a matter of fact, there's a good reason for him to break up with decide that you've had it with him. And you don't know how to say it. That's when you introduce this basic idea, then you burn out his clutch as you learning to do it. He gets royally ticked off breaks up with you. And you say I'm sorry. You feel this way on and off. He goes, isn't that good? Yeah. Personal ad. No single white s w f. Newbie f. With m s. Good. Okay. Well, let's make out with him the car the clutch. Everything I I predict it with an hour. You'll be driving expertly. Okay. All walking back to your apartment. See you. Thank you. Okay. With two thirds of the way through the showed. You know, what that means? Let's say two thirds of three halves cancel it till canceled three. Hey, we're done. You're done you. We'll be back with a brand new puzzle in just a minute. Grabble. Pill. And even though Goalby wants one who's been messing with a radios presents whenever she is say, it, this is NPR Amazon, Google Facebook big companies are getting really big is that a problem listen to planet. Money's new series on big business competition and antitrust law in America, that's on planet money. We're back. Listen to with us clicking collect the tempered brothers. And we hit a discuss cars car repair and the new puzzle. I can hardly wait. Well, I think you like this is this is a recent submission from guy named Scott crass. And I like it because it's my brother didn't get it. Here. It is. Yeah. Pay careful attention, you're placed on a medication regime in which you're to take daily one tablet of a and one of be got it got it. So you you have two little pill. They call them containers. Yeah. Once his Pillay and one says pill be you must be careful taking tool more bees can have unpleasant side effects or can even be fatal in order for the beats of water. In order for the beats be affective. It must be accompanied by a pill. Yeah, you're gonna take one. A and one b that'll you'll open up the bottle, and you as people do your tap the ball in one eight pill kind of jumps out into your palm. Yeah. You open the be bottle and you accidentally get to Bs falling out of the bottle. But here's the problem. They look exactly the same. Are. They don't have little as and Bs on them just on the container. But they're both boomer. They're both blue the same size of the same way. And when they're soon as they fell in there, they got mixed up. So now, you have three pills, but you can't tell what the heck you got. How can you know? Of course, you could just throw these pills away. That's why I thought. I thought was don't make this puzzle. Throw the pills away and start again. The pills cost a hundred bucks a piece and you can't throw them away. But how can you make sure that you get your daily dose of a and b without wasting any of the pills got it. Yeah. Got it. Well, you didn't have earlier, but you've got it now. No, I understand the question. I can't remember the if you think, you know, the answer, right? It on the back of a twenty dollar Bill or a stale pop tart. Great idea pop tarts appre steeled that pre stale they are d- stale them when you when you pop them when you post them, or what have never realized that before I had on the other two to toast them. You could reshingled your house. If you haven't got enough of the St.. Greasing the house with pop tarts Roseberry, you're gonna you had a resolution Gle in the frosted ones Dougie says water in the repainted. I love it. Anyway. Upstarts? They got us. I do pop tarts. Well, I see one in the cabinet once in a while if I'm really hungry. I will eat it. They considering though the unique chemistry involved in these. They're pretty good. And they last forever. Although some of the packages still say great for your bomb shelter. President eisenhower. You may like I like. Anyway, send your institute puzzling tower car talk plaza boxed thirty five hundred Harvard square Cambridge our facility Matt zero two to three trying to remember the puzzle. Forgot. Forgot your answer. Someone helped me being held against my will keep me E mail your answer from car talk dot com. If you'd like to call it somebody, please call one eight eight eight car talk that's eight eight double to seven eighty two double five lawyer Encarta. From south Colby, Washington. Is that an I E or any why stop at? From where south Colby? Washington Colby across the sound from Seattle Ross the pungent sound. That's right. Got it. Okay. We got a fix on you. Now. What's up, Leslie? Well, I'm calling with a sort of Christmas Eve mystery slash tragedy. What time warp here? Christmas illness happened. This is about to happen on criminals. Got it. Okay. Planning ahead. Some people do planet far ahead Christmas Eve tragedy strategy tragedy tragedy. Go ahead. We're we're listening. Okay. My inlaws were visiting and it was Christmas Eve, and I went to tragedy. I'm sorry. Can't talk about that. On the radio. We can't discuss that. I'm sure you had a wonderful time, and you were pleased on to have them visiting. Okay. So I'm parked car in the driveway. As I always do. And because the emergency brake hasn't been functioning and several years. I put it in gear and checked it pushed on it kinda make sure it wouldn't roll. And I went about my business. And a little while later. My mother-in-law was in the living room. My father-in-law was outside working on the porch. And I heard this odd popping sound. Then a strange on reeling sound, and I looked up and my car was going down the driveway really fast kind of afford festival. Do you have? It's not afford. What kind of little give car car station wagon a little k- car could it get smashed to smithereens? Well, I chased after it thinking, you know, I'd seen people on TV catch them. And I thought that certainly could catch it, and I couldn't it was going backwards. I tried kicking the tire, and I was screaming horrible things. And my main fear was that my father in law could hear what I'm saying. Really? Time. Interesting. What the things that become important in retrospect? It veered sharply instead of going off down into a pond it smashed into a tree. And it's now destroyed how fortunate. Tragedy. Well, could be at the time it since it was my on the car. It was quite tragic anyway, I had two questions about this entire incident. One was that no one seemed to hear it. But me, so my first question is sort of philosophical one. And that is if if a tree rolls down a hill in the woods and smashes into a car and here it did it make. That's a good question. And the other true question is Cana car hill itself. The real question. Kind of walk them sign auto side. It new I've never thought Leslie you've introduced untying new aspect everything yet. Well, this car is really actually a pile of junk. But we were all very fond of it. That's what Kevorkian Motors is harden. Dealership around here called Kevorkian Motors. We often wondered what they did. We will put your car to sleep is that if. You do that in the garage. Don't you every day? He wanted people don't ask for it. I of all we should point. We should find out. Why it rolled away and there upon their various possibilities. What gear did you put it in reverse reverse? Okay. That's good. That's the right to be in. It's the right to be in which means that you have one had one of two problems with this car one. You probably needed a valve job. Definitely definitely. Did it have it needed everything that a car could need was poor compression, the engine wouldn't be able to hold it from party with if you had an engine with poor, compression, you wouldn't be able to hold the car and a hill. I mean, the way the reason that it doesn't roll when you put it into gear is at the wheels are trying to turn the engine, but the engine won't turn because it's so hard to do that. Because you compressing all of the air and whatever else happens to be in the cylinders. Imagine if you took all the spark plugs out, which is roll down the hill. And you hear this. You'd hear those those pistons going up and down the popping. You heard was the pistons going up and down trying to start the engine the other possibility is that you needed a clutch. Yes, we probably did probably needed to. So you might have had either a bolt of these problems and that would have caused it to happen. You're right. It's interesting. You bring it up because a lot of people just assume that you put the car in gear and it won't roll. Well, it depends depends it might roll. And it might not now. See that's the logical answer. I was looking also for a more, philosophical spiritual answer. Just put itself out of its misery could have I think I think it new because you hadn't maintained it and taking care of taking care of it. And it was suffering tremendously that it had it had to take its own life. It was it was inevitable. I mean, it's it's an interesting concept. I I didn't realize that cars could do this. And it's a little known fact, my brother has off all these uses blame me for for the demise of his sleek, black beauty. And if the truth be known sleek black beauty actually drove itself right onto the crusher. I didn't think he'd be leave me can happen. I knew he would never believe me. If I told them that. But now now that I have some some kind of corroboration here some other prison. That's had the similar thing happened. I think my brother will understand that the card itself in ten. Can accept it. So you buy another car pardon. Did you buy replacement? Well, we're saving money to buy replacement. And I'm frightened to tell you what I'm driving now a nineteen seventy eight dodge Aspen. Frying pans of the fire. All right. Well, you can be certain that whatever car you get three places. You will appreciate your. You'll be thrilled by you could buy just about anything, and you'd be thrilled by it. So you later, thanks for this new car. You want this to happen again? Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Didn't know that could happen. One eight car talk or one eight two two seven eight two five five low you're on car talking. Hi. This is Ken from retrieval. Hey, Ken from real Ohio Richfield? Yes. Obviously named by bunch of Germany immigrants who were out in their field and said, gee, this is pretty good soil. All that's rich. That's what it was. Because of your intuitive mines your one and your vast knowledge of cars, and because we've just past the the Valentine's Day romantic bit. I my thoughts have been thing. Attorney to thoughts of spring and of perhaps getting back into the meeting game again and based on my pest. I haven't done a good job of of picking mates. So I was wondering what kind of car should I be looking for because the ones that they drove in the past that didn't work. So this is something this is a ritual you every spring search. What does your wife think about this? Well wives. Actualise actually want to you there for the number of ex wives. I understand the question, for example, the first one came with no car, but I would have to say that when she bought a gremlin that was her car. The second wife has came a quick with Saab's third one came a quick with Hyundai's. So I know to stay away from all three of those cars really do you want to know when you see her car? Exactly, you know, if she's the right one. There you go. See? What do you like it? Do you like teased hair gum-chewing? Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, that's good. I would never lay Camaro. Donald right. Yes. Well, it's interesting that you should bring this up. Because at this moment, we are working so hard as you may know, we did a survey on our website talking about the website, but we're constantly in doing the survey and included in the survey. In addition to all the bunch of questions about how long have you been driving this car and with the fixed, the brakes, and blah, blah, blah, the usual boring stuff, we have a complete psychological profile. So we'll be able to give you a complete psychological profile for any making model in the United States. I mean, I think that's that's was necessary. Because I think a car I mean, we've always this country like courage rejection of your personality. Of course, it is. I just want to particularly I guess not only which one should I look forward to. But also which ones I should avoid. And I think maybe the chimera was probably fall into that Rome that I should just devoid chimera void Camaro those gals. Too fast few. I think so too young too fast. Too young. Yeah. What what's the age group? You're looking for anything over legal. No, I think twenty thirty somewhere in there. You must be what forty five. Yeah. Ages are out, right? Single dead. So I have responsibilities. So I had to look for someone who, you know, permanently. Good income. I tell you the only psychological profiles that I've looked at so far been forbidden w owners, and I would stay away from them. If I were you, I think, you're right. And the other one was Toyota owners, and what we found out about Toyota owners is that there may basically pretty boring people might be eight. My sister is Toyota owner longtime, of course, she's a doctor. So I guess maybe that goes with the she boring. I don't wanna say if I'm gonna live next. Right. Seven on the relations with the nuclear family. Childless? Boring. I will get to work and work hotter on these psychological profiles because I realize now the importance to the world of these a definite need it is. Yeah, I would say from my experience at the shop. Yeah. I have found that the of the women that come to the show. Yeah. And the nicest ones you're going to say on driving. No, the nicest ones, drive, Toyotas Nissans and one of the Subarus. No, yeah. Super owners within the male of female a very pleasant. Well, if young lady would pull up next to me in a Subaru. I know exactly what I'd say. I'd say do you want me to fix it? That's good. I can fix that point. I could say that limp. Well, can I it's obvious. You have your work cut out for you. And we have our work cut out for us to and we're gonna go right to the laboratory murky work this good luck, man. Thank you, see to you. Oh boy. Oh boy. We'll look it's happened. Again, you wasted. Another perfectly. Good. Our oldest Takhar talk are esteemed producers. Doug the subway fugitive. Not a slave fashioned Bongo boy Berman our associate producer, David the Cavs of Belleville green, and Catherine ferrall Bluecher fellows, our web lackey is Doug the old grey mayor assisted by Connie Bridgford. Our theme music is by David dog risen, and our technical spiritual. Menu adviser just back from the greater Winnetka. Snowmobile associations, all you can eat pancakes and kill basa feast on Lawler, our public opinion. Poster was Paul murky of murky research assisted by statistician marginal. Vera, our customer care Representative Haywood Dubose off our documents acuity expert from the island of Jamaica. He's you'll Ripa Di up month who is not related to our Taylor Euripides amenities or to our staff. Bouncer Euripides, a break your face to the proprietor of our men's clothing. Shop Euripides you own unease divorce attorneys Carmine, not yours. Our cr-. Credit counselor is maxed out our system. Maxed out. Get it. Next though. Next though, right? Our systems disciplinarian is Joaquin the plank. I'm meteorologist from the New Delhi offices. Luke out of Indo, our direct of Pavlovian research is is about bringing a Russian chauffeur's beak off in drop off the banker at car talk poker games, his nuclei put in and our seat cushion test prison might Easter our chief counsel from the law firm of do each Inman. How as you Louis Dewey known to the pigeons with eight hundred SAT's and have it square as you Louis. Thanks so much listening. We're clicking the tapper brothers. And remember don't drive like my Berrima this by the way. Yes. Still drive like my brother. Good suggestion. We'll be back next week. Bye. You can get a podcast of this show, which is number nineteen o. 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Capt. Kevin Rosenblum, U.S. Army, Iraq War

Veterans Chronicles

32:58 min | 1 year ago

Capt. Kevin Rosenblum, U.S. Army, Iraq War

"Welcome to veterans chronicles. I'm Corrobos I'm honored to be joined today by. US Army veteran Captain Kevin Rosenbloom. He is joining us for the wounded warrior. Experience at the two thousand nine hundred thousand American Veterans Center conference in Washington and Captain Reservoir. Thanks so much sure tat. Thanks Greg it's going to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Where were you born? Gordon raised I was born in Framingham Massachusetts. I was raised all over the place really so rather than being a military Brat professors breath and so my dad every time he wanted to move up the ladder in professorship we would change school so I was born in born in Framingham when he was at bu for his post doc and then we moved to Edmonton Alberta Canada for his first first professorship and then down to San Marcos Texas and then Batesville Arkansas. I went to school in Kentucky served in the Army in New York. Lived in. DC We know in Richmond. So I was raised all over the place really but Richmond is where I call home now ask. Yeah you mentioned. Your Dad was a professor. Is there a history of military service in your family. There is. Yeah so my. My Dad's father who calls eighty was in the army air air corps in World War Two so he was a navigator on B. Twenty four's in the Pacific theater and I grew up. Just idolizing his service. You Know He. I'd ask him about it. And of course that generation didn't talk much about it but he showed me his old air medals and he had his uniforms and everything and when I was a kid I you know every time we'd visit him. I WanNa go see his medals in his uniform and play dress up and all that and I yeah I just really idolized allies to service and so when it came time to for me to go to college minoa military service was was not at the front of my mind and I thought I figured I'd go to college and I was interested in in some type of government service at the time I wanted to join the State Department or the or something like that but my freshman in year my friend Derek and I heard about RTC program. So I went to a little small school called Centre College in Danville Kentucky. It's called Senator. 'cause it's in the center of the state clever although with an R. E. The English spelling and we heard about the RTC program. I'm at University of Kentucky. And we heard that they really wanted center students because it's a good school and supposedly. We're we're the smart kids And so they were giving. There's basically giving out full scholarships to center students that would apply to the army. ROTC program so we went up there and check it doubt. I ended up in the army or we both did because we turned right instead of turning left for the air force because they were both in the same building and we just just walked in and turned right to go to the army and signed up in two thousand thinking of course about patriotism and military service. And all that but it wouldn't be it would be disingenuous if I said that was my only motivation. The Scholarship Yeah Yeah Scholarship the scholarship and the and the monthly beer money stipend certainly certainly help too. But I always thought about service in the back of my mind I knew I wanted to be in government. I just didn't know until I joined the army that I wanted to be in the army so how soon into your college career to do. Was it right up. That was yeah. In the spring term my freshman year been Two thousand early two thousand and one. I think so your last three plus years. Yeah yeah three and a half years I was in the the RTC program so you signed up for this before nine eleven. What do you think what's not allowed to have well like the rest of the nation really? I was in shock doc. But in you know in the time afterwards it it kind of coalesce for me that that this was going to involve me in a really direct way in two thousand and when I joined up we hadn't had a major war since nineteen ninety-one need needed the Gulf and then there were a smaller actions but I hadn't really given a Lotta thought to actually deploy combat and then two thousand and one happened and then two thousand three. We invaded Iraq and it was. It was kind of a sure thing that that we would be that I would would be going to war and it shook me at first I you know like I. I said I didn't think about serving in combat when I joined up the I thought about jumping out of planes and running around in the woods and shooting guns and writing and Humvees and tanks and stuff and I was a nineteen year old kid when I joined and then and having to think about the responsibility that an officer has especially since I wanted to go into the infantry knowing that kind of responsibility and what would be a what my role would be in it it really. It shook me and I I had. I had a moment where I actually considered trying to pay back. Scholarship and dropping out of the program in two thousand four are one of the UK cadets. Jeffrey Graham was killed. He graduated the year before he was killed by a roadside bomb. And we all knew him from the program. It was a great guy. It just made things really really real for me. You know it's not I. I realized that this isn't play anymore. This isn't just going to be training. We're going to war. You're going to war and it was just a moment. I think that any any twenty to you. Twenty one year old kid really would have that but then I realized I made a commitment to serve. I wanted to serve and and that kind of after that. That kind of moment of I wouldn't call it weakness but I guess reflection kind of galvanized me even more but he was definitely a shock. Those events as it was for the entire country or did you end up going for training so I trained at Fort. Benning did all the infantry stuff and then went up to fort drum and I sorted with the Tenth Mountain Division up there and so I- arrived at the Tenth Mountain and went down to my platoon with the taxes. All packed up we were ready to go to the desert and I met them a couple months before we deployed but all the training was done and so I never the first time I ever lead my platoon soon on any sort of exercise or anything like that wasn't an exercise we were. It was our first patrol in in Baghdad. Was the first time I actually lead my platoon. Does it was not the ideal way to to start out your platoon leadership but I had amazing soldiers and amazing. NCO's does an amazing fellow appeals in a company commander in First Sergeant and role models. And so I think I did. Okay Eh Trade. Yeah definitely in a moment. We'll get to the event that happened shortly after you got there. Talk a little bit about Your your role. You mentioned that you were you relieved. You're essentially the company acts out right so for my first. My first assignment was as a rifle. Platoon two-meter okay. So that was leading. So that was a second lieutenant in charge of a forty man right. rifle platoon. What was your first experience with combat? So we went into we were on Campbell Liberty. We were in western Baghdad in two thousand four the summer Moore of two thousand. No excuse me somewhere of two thousand five and we were assigned a pretty active area area. My company had the neighborhoods of Maria and cadre and it was a pretty is really urban populace and very heavily populated by what we thought at the time were Al Qaeda in Iraq members and leaders and so it was our job to to try to on the one hand root them out and and and take care of them and get rid of that and then on the other hand to provide security and safety and stability and some semblance of a normal life to the citizens of of our area of of Iraq and so the by the time we got there major combat operations were were kind of done that was in the first couple years of the war. We had rolled out the Iraqi army and we were going going into more counterinsurgency at that point so it was kind of a two fold mission of trying to fight the insurgency kinetically Glee and then doing coin operations counterinsurgency operations to try to to win hearts and minds type of stuff for the public. Look so it was complicated and really really hard and for especially for infantry unit that you know the those guys in and now women that are serving in all all aspects of the military they sign up to do a job which is to to kick in doors and pull triggers in close with and destroy the enemy and so to have that level of complexity thrown upon it not just in in the in the battlespace the urban battlespace but also with the rules of engagement and not necessarily just conducting combat operations. It made it really really hard. He made it hard hard leadership challenge. Because I've got all these soldiers that want just want to get after the enemy and go go on night raids in and throw down and then really our mission is to to is to keep everybody safe and try as hard as we can to take care of the insurgency. But you know that's not our primary job is to is to conduct these big combat operations. Kevin you were just talking about the responsibilities of yourself and your unit as you Served after being there in two thousand five You're only there about a month when this major event that would change your life and in many different ways happened in west Baghdad. What was happening that day and tell us what happened? Yeah so we were. September two thousand five in my my section my platoon been spill into two sections one section of two squads in my platoon had the other section and we traded off days going out on patrol all and it was my day on patrol my sections turn out on patrol and we were just out in on patrol in Maria in western western Baghdad and we were actually at one of the Iraqi police stations taken. It'll break. It was hot so we didn't we needed to take a little break. An and grab a snack or something like that and a call came in from a convoy of military police that had been hit with a vivid a car bomb on the way just outside of our sector. In one of their trucks had been uh-huh ability kill had been destroyed it. They couldn't drive it and so they were able to get it just inside our sector for anybody out. There's listening that knows western Baghdad. Check point five to three was the eastern edge of our sector and they got just west of that so they were like one hundred meters west cost of of that checkpoint. which was the intersection of Route Michigan? Route Sword if I remember right and so they call for help. They were stranded ended. They needed a record. Come out and come get him and they wanted extra security because there were only three. Three vehicles was almost completely destroyed And they didn't have many dismounts that couldn't pull security well because it's a major road intersection. So my Mike Patrol is closed so I I told him I would respond and we went out there and set up a security cordon blocked off the roads and then we kind of pulled security and we were waiting for the record. ACKER come out the big army tow truck but it took longer than we would have liked for to get the record out there and you know. We're kind of sitting out there in the middle of a a pretty major intersection. It's relevant that we were just west of check point five to three because that's one of our target reference points for indirect fire and it also turns out is probably one of the insurgents surgeons CRP's because they They started delay. mortarfire down in on us and then they followed followed it up with just a quick volley of small arms which is never more than you know for them they do like this spray and pray type stuff or they pop out of the their Red Opel or whatever you're in spray a couple of rounds and then screwed up back into the city so they could never be seen and that's how they fought us because they knew that they would get their butts kicked if they actually actually did stand and fight with us so the mortar rounds did really all the damage including myself there were there were nine an US wounded between the MP's in my section and For me it really just felt I was on. I was on the the kind of protected. I guess for lack of a better term by other people that were standing around and they took a lot of the shrapnel in the backs in the back their legs eggs in Assam got through to me and it really just felt like rocks kicked up and hit my right leg hurt but I didn't. I didn't really think anything of it because in that moment you know you're adrenaline is flowing. And there's other people wounded as a leader. I've I've got a controlled fires and start getting the casualty report together and all all that sort of stuff and so it felt like rocks kicked up and we all ran and got behind cover. And then I told my talk radio operator to get on the net two battalion and telling that we're under fire. But he was. He's actually really lucky so he a piece of shrapnel came through and it cut through its sliced. His ear open sliced his cheek open so he looked kind of like the joker right but he had just turned like ninety degrees so in that instant if he hadn't turned the piece of shrapnel would have punched right through his head that instead it sliced through instead but he was Kinda like in shock and so I just kind of put him down and his wounds weren't life threatening so we let the medic take care of them and I grabbed the radio and toll battalion. We were under fire and called for the cure. F- come out. Because at that point we were we were I considered combat ineffective. We couldn't maneuver. We couldn't do anything. We had to get the casualties out of there. So the the cure from our first platoon showed up and took over the scene to wait for the wrecker because it had just arrived and they hadn't recovered the vehicle yet we couldn't just leave the damage vehicle there and we through all of our wounded and the MP's wounded into my vehicles and then we had a back to camp liberty which was thankfully only like a mile or two away. We were close and got all the wounded taken care of. And I still didn't think much about my leg kind of hurt but I I wasn't thinking about it and all of a sudden one of my soldiers as like. Oh Lt your hit hit. And then that's when I down on my leg and my pants were all bloody and I was like. Oh okay ah I guess. It wasn't rocks and I walked into the station and they're like Oh we need. We need to send you to the cash in Baghdad the Combat Hospital. And that's where they did the X ray and they he said yet they're shrapnel in your leg but it's small and it's not in the bones we're just gonNA leave it in there so they just left it in because they said it would take more do more damage damage to do surgery and take it out so they were like. Here's some antibiotics take a couple days off and you'll be fine. So that was that was it. I spent the night at the the cash and then I was back to my unit the next day and I took a couple of days off and my legs hurt but I was getting bored and I didn't didn't think it was right that my soldiers are out there without me. Their leader So you know a couple days after I got hit I was back out. At what point did you or someone else recognize. Some signs of P. T. S.. I think for me my P. T. S. was a it was compounded over the years so I don't attribute that incident to post traumatic stress. It's it's that plus everything else. The constant stress of being out on patrol. And having to I guess not not deal with it but maybe just kind of try to reconcile the fact that your life and your your soldiers lives are at risk and if you really stop to think about that you can't because you you might risks shutting down and that's not especially as a leader. You just don't do that like you don't seek help you don't talk about it. At least that was the culture that I was in in the army back man especially in the infantry you just were you just got on with it. I mean we didn't even where cold weather gear. 'cause you're supposed was to be tough right. It's kind of dumb but I finished out that deployment and came home and was having. I guess you know what you could call the usual combat stress stuff waking up with nightmares in having flashbacks and stuff like data would wake up in the middle of the night. Screaming orders like I was still in Baghdad and that faded which is a normal reaction and it's supposed to fade. But then I went back to Iraq as the battalion. s four is a logistics officer in two thousand seven we were in Kirkuk and my battalion was down just southwest of coupon and the first tour. My battalion was really lucky. We didn't news any soldiers. My Company didn't we have wounded obviously of course but both my company and my Italian we didn't suffer any killed in action. But the the next go around we weren't so fortunate and as the Logistics Officer One of the one of your Jobs is also as the mortuary affairs officer so when soldiers are alive one is responsible for him and when they're deceased the s four is responsible for him because they become. I'm more of A. It's not right to call it. Call them a property. You're commodity but they're no longer living and so they're they're no longer the s one's responsibility and so I would have to identify our soldiers in the mortuary affairs office. That were killed in action. I had to process their effects their personal effects so going through all of their stuff and getting it ready to send it home. And then that a tour I lost a really good friend of mine One of the best. NCO's I ever served with. who was in a squad when I was a accompany excess? Oh and we weren't in the same unit anymore and I was down on my father and his unit came through on their patrol. And they stopped just to refit. If it gets more fuel get some water and stuff and we got to to catch up for a little bit. And then John was off. He was the acting platoon sergeant so he was riding in the truck with the medic and I wish I wish him well. I'm sure I slapped him on on the back and said something stupid and sarcastic like don't you go down on me And he he did. That was the last time I ever I saw him alive. The next time I saw him was when I was putting his remains or what was left of him in a body bag on on a helicopter going back to fob warrior in Kirkuk so on that patrol he his Humvee hid had a deep buried I e d and the whole truck was completely destroyed. Awful Four soldiers were killed. John was in three of his crewmates. That were That were In there were killed and that like I said it was come combination the compounding of of my first tour and then really. This tour was much more mentally stressful. Because I I was stuck on the five I was off the line. I wasn't with although I was serving with awesome soldiers and really really awesome soldiers. Because I wasn't doing what I wanted to do which was lead soldiers in combat. That's what I signed up to do and as an officer. You don't get to do that a whole lot. And it made me in particular especially since we're losing soldiers. It made me feel a little bit helpless. Like I wasn't doing my bit and then on top of that. I was dealing with with the death in an indirect way and in a direct way Having to you he'll losing John and then having to process you know our soldiers remains it just it just just got to me and I was going through personal stuff up to. I went through a divorce through that time. And just the the combination of stuff it just it just me down until and even then I didn't realize that I was suffering from some from post traumatic stress. It was not until I got out of the army and I went to go see a doctor about you. Know they evaluate you for for veterans benefits and I told him all I was going through. And he's like it. Sounds like you need to talk to somebody. You need to go see a therapist because I think you he was a general practice. Doctor is like I think you might have post traumatic stress and I was like. Yeah probably but I'm a fine. This is how supposed to feel was my attitude you know yes. I went through this but I also volunteer to do it. And so my attitude which I I realize now is a very wrong attitude to have was just like you volunteered for this. You're supposed to be STOIC DOC. You're supposed to be hard and you're not supposed to admit this weakness You're not supposed to need to take care of yourself like this ask. That shouldn't happen in the first place and so years and years went by and I didn't see any sort of treatment for it until my current wife was was. We'd just like to go. You gotta go You know life has its ups and downs. I was down and I was not the person that she knew. So how long had you been holding off on giving up. I didn't seek professional help for for P. T. S. for at least nine years after I was diagnosed with it after I left the army. I think I finally left the army in two thousand nine fine. I think it was probably twenty eighteen until I went to go see therapists. Yeah so what was the biggest part of at that helped you just unburdening myself. You know. There's only so much you can carry before you just get brought down by the weight of it uh-huh and when I was talking to therapist I just kept this. This theme kept coming up of just me carrying this burden. I've always kind of been like that. I'm a warrior. I take things on myself I take things and hold them inwardly and and it took talking through it with my therapist to realize that it's not fair on myself. It's not fair to my loved ones and the people around me in my life that care about me for for me to have this kind of attitude for me to carry this burden because it's not my responsibility and I'll never forget yet. The the kind of like the breakthrough was when I was talking to her talking about just feeling almost like these spirits. It's that are on my shoulders. All the time dislike pushing into the ground. She said there was a window in our office behind her. And she's like why don't you the open that window and just let him go. I did and it was the most amazing thing I mean. It just felt this weight. Come off of me. And that was kind of the breakthrough that I recognize that. It's not my burden to carry around. It's not my responsibility. And it's not fair not to me or my loved ones to have this backwards attitude of that I need to hold everything inwardly in that really letting go It took that. But it's been the best thing that's ever happened to me. It's wonderful it's absolutely wonderful. How did you make President Rush? So I I met President Bush in two thousand fifteen Had heard about the warriors one hundred K.. The mountain bike ride. That's put on by the Bush Center to honor post nine eleven veterans and to really highlight the power that sport has in in rehabilitation both from physical and mental non-visible wounds of war. At the time I was volunteering with an organization organization called team are WBZ. I'm sure those listening of have heard it and I kind of came to it through that I just I. I honestly can't remember how how I I heard about the the ride but it sounded awesome. It sounded purposeful and so I applied and I was accepted. Fortunately Lisa in two thousand fifteen my wife and I went out to Waco and the ranch in Crawford and and road bikes for three days with President Bush and Mrs Bush hosted US and got to meet a bunch of amazing fellow veterans. Volunteers that do together and have been back many times since. And and so that's my that's my connection with With President Bush. Did he paint your portrait. He did yeah so I didn't actually sit. I get that question all the time and as far as I know nobody actually sat. I don't know that I can't confirm. But he painted a picture the first thing that I never had that I ever knew about it. was I get an email from the Bush center saying that. We need you to sign this release because President Bush's pushes painted your portrait. And I think that was all to do with like because the book hadn't been released yet the book of portraits. And so that was the first time that I had ever known about it and it was. It was a shock to say the least. Obviously a huge honor. It's it's just amazing using. He's a talented artist. He's good mountain. biker Anna Anna talented impressionist yeah. What kind of guy come processed here? I I think probably the best way to describe him is and I mean this with the utmost respect is that he's a dude he's he's just a normal guy and with that sad he's obviously the former president of the United States. He's an accomplished statesman and leader but he's also also just like a normal guy he he likes to slap people on the back in joke around ribbon give stick and and you can joke back with him and he'll chuckled and laughed. Athey likes a good joke. He likes a good pun. And he's just a very very welcoming person and and he's very good at putting people at ease because he is just himself around everybody that I've seen him interact with. He's he's just himself. He doesn't put on airs. He doesn't put pretensions which is which is pretty cool two very quick questions before we let you go here Kevin First of all? I think I know what you're going to go with us. But what's what's your advice to veterans or anyone else who they think they might be dealing with. PTSD or their loved ones. Think they might be. What should they do? Of course it's easier said than done but go seek help the the very best thing that you can do for yourself for for your relationships with your loved ones with your family and your friends is just to to to get help and understand especially for people. Suffering suffering with with P. T. S. that it's not your fault. It's not your responsibility. It's not something that yes you did to yourself. And so you don't deserve to suffer for it and go get professional help. You can talk to your friends and all that till you're blue in the face but but there are real modalities of practice that a trained professional counselor therapist will put into place. That will make you better. You deserve to be better. That's what I would tell people last night. What are you most proud of? From your service to our country. MM-HMM I am most proud of bringing all my soldiers home alive from our first tour when I was a leader in Iraq it was you know we saw some combat we certainly saw more than some and allow less than others in some of US got hurt and I. I know I made decisions that that maybe I thought were the best of the time but in you know upon reflection weren't but no leaders perfect but I am absolutely the most proud proud that I was able to bring all forty my soldiers home in one piece. That's what I'm most proud of. Kevin Thank you so much for your time with us today and it's been amazing very much fear service to our country. I appreciate that. Thank you for your support absolutely. US Army veteran Kevin Rosenbloom veteran of the Iraq war. I'm Greg Columbus. This is veterans chronicles

Army Baghdad Iraq US Greg it Captain Kevin Rosenbloom officer Richmond American Veterans Center Kirkuk NCO Iraqi army President Bush State Department RTC University of Kentucky president Massachusetts US Army
Joe Biden's Speech And Perfect Series Of Bowling

Bob Lonsberry

29:05 min | 3 months ago

Joe Biden's Speech And Perfect Series Of Bowling

"Looking for a new career but don't want to spend four years in college than checkout e CPI university through are year round accelerated programs. You can earn a bachelor's degree in just two point, five years an associates in one point five or earn your masters in as little as fifteen months whether it's technology healthcare business criminal justice order culinary arts are hands on programs can help you reach your professional goals. So what are you waiting for visit? Dot Edu to learn more. Mostly cloudy seventy six I'm Todd Halloway newsradio WAM eleven eighty next news at eleven thirty breaking news when it happens anytime another hour with Bob Lawns Bury starts now on newsradio wham eliminating. Thank you so much Suraya appreciate that good morning my friend. Thank you so much for tuning in. It is a fine out beautiful day for a radio program. The the passing of David Flom of course, heartbreak to his a family, a man who from the perspective. Of Rochester, was seen as a major developer. You see his name all over and that's not just true in our town. It's true of the northeastern. United States but as he passed away yesterday at forty eight, you saw that so many of the. notices that came out on social media where people were making reference to him were from a national political figures and most significantly Republican national political figures. He was a national chairman. Of the Republican. Jewish Coalition for ten years from two thousand, seven to two, thousand seventeen, and in that period of time, he increased the membership some fifteen fold from three thousand to forty, six, thousand in the Republican Jewish coalition was extremely. Important to and supportive of Republican interest in causes through that period. And The electoral success which Mr Flam a hat in a involvement with through that period of time would, of course be the election of a President Donald Trump. In large part in America. Jewish of voters attend. To affiliate. With a the Democratic Party. The Republican Party many of its members philosophically seemed to share a sense of identity or admiration for Jewish people that's probably rooted in. Protestant Christian Protestant. Christianity, and at any rate a mister Flam in again one more of these families where. They came from the Holocaust. The the the son of Holocaust survivors like Robert Morgan like my friend Irving Feldman used to be up at the fish shop. Who came to Rochester in the wake of the evils of of the third, Reich and made lives in the case of Mr Flom a life of great success materially but Mister Fromm like others took that material success and it again, his long running association with events in. Institutions. Commemorating the Holocaust he provided you know dramatic financial support to such commemorations. He provided great leadership and financial support at a national level that impl-, influenced you know national policy of the Republican Party and that's a very significant achievement and a useful contribution and Again, it's probably a man I I never met him and We ran completely different circles but a person who's contribution was huge borrow. Glad you called up Sir Welcome to newsradio eleven eighty. Yes my thanks for taking my call real quick I. totally agree with Uncle Joe Beautiful speech. The problem is who divided the country Mr Obama and Biden would all the Russian collusion and all the attacks impeachment and all that stuff. Yeah I I agree. Here's the thing the speech last night by Joe. Biden. Don't you know kick me out of the trump club but binded a good job. I thought that it was performance art I. Thought that a lot of was Hokum I thought that some of the progressive policies that he pointed to are going to be catastrophic for the country I thought some of his assertions that trump somehow was responsible for covert You you saw some of the Little Promo little ads they had earlier or like where they edited the other people's views. And you had people saying, I'm going to vote for a biden. So next year this time I don't have to wear a mask the the viruses trump's fault. Then he raped also, he said that you know trump had called for cutting social and half he called for reducing payroll taxes but in call for reducing benefits anyway, there were no good in the weeds in the weeds I thought that again because I disagree with him I have a different view I don't believe in the socialist agenda I disagreed with a lot of what he said laying that aside, how did he do? He did exceptionally well. He he did exceptionally well and he he he. He did his best to come across presidential in probably in the minds of most viewers he was successful at that. He said something early on that I. Hope he meant and I wish that every president would mean in which you and I for twenty five years on this show of Said is how it ought to be. He said I will be the Democratic candidate but I will be the American President and I will serve even those who vote against me and I wish that that were the case I hope it is but with that gentleman just pointed out there is true No one has made the other side feel. Less included or more despised. Then you know his pal a President Biden for Prince Story President Obama. Right with with probably Andrew Cuomo may be tied for that. But. We lived in an era for eight years where if few Republican conservative, you could tell that the president hated you. Every thing he said almost was mocking and risk of your position. So at any rate when we talk about division I find in myself and others that it's always the other guy's fault right? I'm nice. I'm nice but he's a jerk and then he's over there saying the same thing. So the end of division in America will come from introspection self awareness and repentance, right? It will not come from pointing out again louder and more angrily how the other guy is a bastard. Okay. 'cause I think that's the shovel. We used to dig this hole in the first place. A pepe. Pepe. Here's something that I need to learn more on. We'll talk more about next week. I just learned about last yesterday and trying to learn more about since. Beginning next year. No new construction in New York state. We'll be able to connect to natural gas. Beginning next year no new business, no new farm, no new school no new house. No knew anything will be able to connect to the natural gas supply system. Beginning next year. New. York every building that's built. That's new. Will I guess you can't build an old building? Kenya, will have to be electric, right? All, which here's thing natural gas and this is all in the name of Greene. We're going to save you from the environment whatever like that, which was a big thing for Biden last night part of the green new. Deal. This is New York all were farther down the road. So that means that natural gas which is the most affordable source of industrial commercial and residential energy will not be available for growth in New York state. You may continue to use buildings. That have natural gas, but the natural gas lines cannot be extended if there's a new subdivision put in if you build a new house, even if it's on your old lot, you build a new house, you can't have natural gas and here's nothing that also begins next year. in your home, they will now begin to charge you and tax you separately for your use of peak electricity. Again, they're forcing you into the use of electric city over time but right now, businesses can be a build and taxed for using electricity during peak times like say it's a summer afternoon. In everybody's using the electricity to run their air conditioning right now, businesses are charged extra for that trinity that they use at peak beginning. Next year, you'll be able to be charged at your home for doing that right? I'll give you a turn the lights on at night that's over the extra because everybody soothing the lights at night that's peak, and so you will be charged and you'll be taxed more right. This is to discourage your use of electricity at peak times. Right now, one way to get around that is. The the company say. Like there's a tesla one like a battery wall where you stack up a lot of batteries that won't affect me built into a wall and you will buy electricity like in the middle of the night when it's cheaper supposedly, and then you will use that during the day when it's more expensive and this is all to help the environment, right? All those batteries with all those chemicals and all those heavy metals but anyway, the the point is this. The impact of this will be to make growth and development in New York. Undesirable because the energy associated with, it will be more expensive than the energy being used my states elsewhere in the country. What this does is a sure that after next year there will be no new industrial or commercial construction. Because you know. Natural gas is the will not be available to you. And and the deal is when you are pushed over to electric, which will occur over time. Electrical. Generation is is finite because again they're going shut down the nuclear ones and in New York they want to eliminate the natural gas fired plants. They wanted all renewable there's only so much renewable. There'll be extra demand for that finite quantity of renewable electricity and we're once we had natural gas where once we had nuclear electricity or once we had a a natural gas electricity were once we had coal electricity you now we'll have wind. And a son panels and when I drive through where all those wind turbines are usually none of them are moving and when I look over The sun panels usually I see clouds. That's the bottleneck of energy demand and cost that Andrew Cuomo and the progressives are pushing the state toward. If you think it's bad. Now give them a couple of years. It's time for a break back in a moment with you on newsradio lamb eleven eighty. Or? Sort of. Rory. Bagel. Cream cheese. From Bagel Land, not to give them a plug. But I think I'm going steady with big land. For. Freddie bagels. Boston bagels does open 'til eight. Zam. Yes sir. Sam Schreier. He's your prototypical pro to. I want to say prototypical suburban dad but I never say that's okay. I'll find something different frame. whack-job seems. And chance not respect you. In the modern workplace went up but You know a Bagel dog is I do. Like A. Hot Dog in a big yes exactly. Yes. You ever seen him anyplace else when I was in school we were. At school when I was growing up, they had Bagel dogs. Okay. Which I think that they got from Bagel and beyond okay. You know like the the the show them to you at lunch it's like you could buy them in the kept. Okay Great. Yeah. Good. I. I think I'm going steady with them. Yeah. See like when I go an early, they don't have Bagel dogs to lunchtime typically Gotcha. I. Go in early in the morning. And the Guy said last week you know if you let me know I'll make you I can make some. In. So I've signed up for two BAGEL dogs every Friday as having ready to go for you I would I would be in love with them to routine, right? Yeah. For sure that's the way to go. To Go, Fit on the roof yes. You're familiar with us. Yes. Like it a lot. I liked it a lot. Yeah. Like the movie yeah yeah. I, love it. In my when I loved it. When I was a kid, I loved wasn't adult. Love it. To songs. Yeah. I know a lot of music in that show and the thing is, is that I it's funny because I used to like a lot more. Before they do now. Because I saw the play, he was in town of about two years ago. I think I saw that too. And I just I must have a night where they had some other people in the show that weren't supposed to be in there and it kind of got me took me down a little bit about it. Yeah to some of that just a little bit but anyway, I do like it a lot. What do you think about as a as a segment topic to men talking about a play from the nineteen sixty Screen. Radio Audience. Audience and they also talked about wieners. It's a wink wink nod nod right there I think we'll start. Outstanding Alexa Olson Newscast then they weren't talk just a little bit of bowling again, trying to go for that mainstream young person approach back in a moment with you after the news likes Olsen on newsradio eleven eighty. It's a great time to get a great deal on a new car when you get approved for an auto loan from. Our powered by truecar rates are as low as one point three nine percents APR new vehicles finance for a longer term to lower your monthly bill plus take up to sixty days. Schedule your first payments, join Penn Fed, and together we'll keep you moving forward. Anyone can apply visit Penn Fed dot org slash auto or call one, eight, hundred, two, four, seven, five, sixty, six to perceive any advertised product you must come a member confed insured by NCUA. Pro Pay Taxi. Blogging, that tank, we deliver propane straight to exchange. Went through. That's. Paying taxing pay taxes DOT COM let's cooking this weekend. If really is your plan, then make it easy on yourself. Go to propane taxi dot com enter Promo Code bbq Ten for ten dollars I barbecue tank exchange delivered to your door. It's that easy with propane taxi. So you can focus on family friends and fun. Welcome back troopers. Welcome back. Hope you have got plans for a great weekend. Arza looks like it's going to be pretty swell. Earlier in the program we spoke with a gentleman by the name of John. Martorell. Who with his brother owns domes bowling. Center. Ridge road. in Greece they're carrying out from their dad. and in the conversation John Martorell joins us a again it welcome back. Sir. Thank you for having me I. Appreciate You Bet Ya in when we spoke before i. Was Not, aware e you you have bold perfect series. I have. Night a ball. Tell us about it. please. So. Yell it was. Hectic night that night and I was born with a couple of buddies and a five-man. Leaks. good friend of Mine Jeff Doer who's been on thirteen when he's been interview and This whole bowling pandemic. And So he was with me that night and my son was there my brother was there my father was there and you know? I'm running around the ball and Senator Trent operate the business. bolden the League for several years since I was since I was about fifteen. And Yeah. Next thing you know I got to three hundred in a row and I'm going into the third game and it was pretty crazy. you know my adrenaline was pumping the first three frames of the last game. And Yeah. My I cut my composure for the most part but I was running around chasing chasing ball calls. Had a machine breakdown on either and I was fixing that in between. My son came up to me after the six frame or the third game interrupted me as I was on the approach I turned around and I started laughing because everybody was so nervous. That that he was going to distract me but. I just got my composure and told the of the frames for nine hundred. It John Martyr Ella Y. A perfect game is three hundred. A A series is three games it it. I all. When did this happen sir? This is back in two, thousand, twelve, April two, thousand, twelve. Had you had a three hundred game prior to that night. Yeah, I've been bowling my whole life I travel all over the country over the state I'm an avid tournament Bowler I'd like to say that, I have a decent name out there for tournament ball and. I'm usually in the money lately, I haven't been because things have been crazy last two years of my life but. Things have calmed down but now back escalated do this. DEMOC. So the three hundred, the first one in that series. Let's good but it's not like you know bring down the house. Good. You get your your background. In a did you ever had to back to back three hundred games in the same series before. I haven't I've never had to three hundred to back. I've been in practice before where I put twenty six in a row but that was the most I've ever gone. So this is quite a quite night where you. Dumb. Question. But did did the importance of it did the nervousness, R- anything play play on. You did that that hamper you. Know Not Really I. You know I've never considered nine hundred ever in my life. You know you hear some people have done it before and it's like. Jeeze how can you go? You know you don't really grasp the whole scenario and the situation. You know the the feeling that you get. While you're bowling You know the Guy Jeremy Sonnenfeld was the first one that do it that was sanctioned I should say for sanction on that was approved. But I never thought about what he possibly could have went through doing with the adrenaline rush in the nervousness everybody watching. Ya You know it was never sanctioned before that. There's a couple of guys that should have had recognition but never did go on Alison was the first one and you know he he was unfortunate you know get declined of it because of the way the rules were to die. the way the oil was on the lanes. Yeah. They declined has. and. it's it's always talked about now. John Mozzarella is one of the owners at Tom's bowling center talking about the night he threw a perfect series three perfect games in interro in context in bowling. How often does this happen? How often has it happened sir? So since I would say the late eighties, the lane conditions have. Become. Easier. The way they put the on the lanes at tends to redirect the ball into the pocket. So it makes it a lot easier to strike proprietors started doing us and it started raising their bar sales and everything else, and it has evolved drastically to where if ozone bowl. Wow. They they start complaining. It's almost like golf. You're making your fairways wider and more sloped to the middle where the ball rolling into the middle of the fairway, and it's like making the. Cup. You know the size of you know parking lot. The Pot in no. But Bowling has gotten very easy over the years unfortunately. But. How often? Do how often to someone get a perfect series. Though I was the nineteenth person but the twentieth sanctioned series, there was a youth bowler that did it twice. at Fort Drum New York. And since then I believe there's been fifteen or sixteen more. And that was since two thousand and twelve John. Martorell is one of the owners with his brother of domes. Bowling. Center. Ridge road in Greece next where about Kabila's is at their dad. Oh, own the lane before back when he was alive what was it like there are two things you You're a bowler. You've hit this. You know this wonderful night what was that like and then you're a family man, your dad's there or your brother's there your sons there what was that like? That was pretty wild. My brother Frank he he was thrilled. You know first thing he did he grabbed my sunny puts my son on his shoulders and he's jumping up and down he opened the bar up that night at the ball everybody stuck around for drinks. We stayed out pretty late we went to another bar up the road and You know we had a few there and basically the kid that was sitting at the bar he had already found out about it. He was doing statistics on it and he couldn't believe the percentage of how hard it was. but you know all of us Jeff Do, we're Marcus. Just, just a lot of our friends and family and you know my father and I sat down afterwards. You know we embraced each other and it was just. It was just we just sat there and like Jok 'cause you know you don't really know the. The RAW. Until it happens it's like, wow, what just happened. And to shared that with your dad, you know again, bowling having defined your lives and Bene- something you shared now must have been awfully special to again to have your dad not just that happened but have your dad there see. It was bachelor especially now that he's not around, you know things are a lot different. You know even stepping into the ball center but knowing that he was there you know he approved everything but yeah, it was it was special everybody in my family was was just inundated with text messages. Everybody was talking about it. You know so it was exciting for everybody. That's Danny but yeah, it was it was quite a feeling quite rush is John Mozzarella at domes bowling center. He got a a perfect series perfect game three, hundred other three games in the series. He had three perfect games back to back for a nine hundred series total. How many strikes NRO is that please Sir Thirty six strikes and ain't so bad ain't so bad Now here's the it's been a long time since I've been knowledgeable my bowling back when I was if you got three hundred game, the American Bowling Congress whatever else I would give you a ring when you get a I know they don't do that anymore you can buy one maybe but when you get a perfect series what you get for that. Though they gave me a costume gold ring and you know it is a beautiful ring got downs on there and as my name engraved in the date had happened. So I mean for them to do that I felt like that's above and beyond to give goal out nowadays I know back before the late seventies I believe it was when they stopped giving gold out, I can't say that for a fact, but it used to be gold rings they gave out and then they went to selenium and now they're and they used to give it to every three hundred boulder any honor score. Now they've taken away in a row award and they've taken away couple of other ones but they just give out one lifetime award now. So if you have multiple three hundred, you only get one ring and that's it. Because bowling right now, it's kind of on the decline and right now it's in big trouble especially with Komo's mandates. It big trouble. Is just because of Covid or because the longer term trend. go a little of both by great now it's cold because bowlers do not want to be out in public in some bowlers just don't WanNa bowl the double shift. On that, there possibly going to every other lane that's mandated now but it will be in big trouble if things don't change throughout the state. would be if all in your life or you WanNa, get your kids involved you want to get back into the bowling centers could really use your business right now. Definitely every ball and Senator Center in the city I she's. Everyone Center in the cities in big trouble right now I I will be the first one. Admit it but we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA survive but and self as an in New York state is in big trouble. I'm so sorry listen. Thank Thomas About this night a glory and congratulations I mean you you. You have been at the very top of your sport. That's outstanding. Yeah I appreciate it. Thank you very much. My friend, you take care. A. John Martorell at Dams Bowling Center a Ridge road in Greece their by where bath abilities or they'd say bath billy's connected arms. It's time for listener on the loose to two to eleven eighty the number. This is Newsradio wham eleven eighty. Now listeners on the loose with bomb lawns berry on newsradio lamb eleven eighty. It's time for us to say whatever you want. Hello you're on Newsradio wham eleven eighty. Give me a reason you would vote for biting without using the word trump. I've seen that mean going around you. One might be I love. Karl. Marx Abby. Goodwin. How Hate America? Hello. That was Nasty Bob Hello? You're on newsradio WAM eleven eighty. Yeah Back Hack while sure. Yeah. I look I signed the insurance papers so they'll pay for your new breast pump for your man boobs. Here's the thing I am just about at the point I. I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a full a a spiring him saying, I'm I'm a little bosomy here I I literally will run down the stairs you're at work or at the House and I get a lot of seismic Jim saying I'm I feel a little bit like Bo Derek at you know what I'm saying with the Corn rows and Andy's NIP rings I. Think I'm Bo Derek. We should go now Bob God bless You keep your Chin up God. Bless. The United States of America weekend assignment is always is tonight tomorrow get out to Temple Mosque synagogue failing that join a me at church on Sunday and then Monday morning it's you and me back your eight till noon on Newsradio Ham, eleven eighty. Looking for a new career but don't WANNA spend four years in college than checkout e CPI university through are year round accelerated programs. 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E104: "The Spokane Serial Killer" - Robert Lee Yates Jr.

Serial Killers

46:18 min | 1 year ago

E104: "The Spokane Serial Killer" - Robert Lee Yates Jr.

"Sir. To start off the show by thinking, the first ten people who bought our thanks, Greg t-shirt in no particular order. I want to say thank you to Brian B Thomas s Diana p Colleen f Sophie, h Diana de Courtney s Zachary L, Katie m and Sarah, h speaking of March the park cast store is having an everything must go sale this weekend from February twenty second to February twenty fourth you can get twenty percents off all par cast merchandise. That means this will be the last chance to get serial killers iconic research t-shirt new designs in items will arrive soon, but this is your last chance to get the current designs before the become collectibles. You know, you want them. So why not get them for twenty percent off head to par cast dot com slash merch and get twenty percent off between February twenty-second and February twenty fourth. That's par cast dot com slash merch. If you haven't listened to parkas crimes of passion podcast. You're really missing out crimes of passion. Analyzes, the relationship, dynamics and psychology that lead to be trail crimes and even murder. Search for an subscribed to crimes of passion. Wherever you listen to podcasts, and please don't forget to rate and review. Due to the graphic nature of these killers. Crimes. Listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder and assault that some people may find defensive we advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. Friends and neighbors knew Robert Lee as an average Joe he was quiet and unassuming to some acquaintances and his native Spokane Washington Yates was so unremarkable that they didn't remember him at all was a decorated army helicopter pilot. He was a father to five children. He enjoyed working with his cars which included his beloved white, corvette. He lived a quiet unassuming life or so everyone thought it soon became clear that despite Roberts, mild, mannered nature. He had a sinister side from nineteen seventy five until nineteen ninety eight. He murdered at least seventeen people around Washington state soon. This unassuming average, Joe became Spokane's most notorious resident. Hi, I'm Greg Poulsen, and this is serial killers on the podcast network. Every Monday, we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers today, we're going to take a deep dive into the life of Robert Lee gates, a convicted murderer who killed sixteen women and one man in Spokane Washington, I'm here with my co host than us Richardson. Hi, everyone at park cast. We're grateful for you our listeners, you allow us to do what we love let us know how we're doing reach out on Facebook and Instagram at podcast and Twitter at par cast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you're listening. It really does help us. We also now have merch head to park cast dot com slash merch. For more information. Robert Lee eight was a former prison guard army veteran and father of five children, but he harbored a more vicious side during the ten year period between nineteen eighty eight and nineteen ninety eight Yates murdered at least fifteen sex workers in Spokane he picked up the women in his van had sex with them and shot them in the head in two thousand forty eight year old Yates was charged with thirteen counts of murder and received a sentence of four hundred eight years in jail in two thousand and two. He was convicted of two additional murders was sentenced to death by lethal injection after two thousand eighteen Washington state supreme court ruling the death penalty was abolished in the state that his sentence was commuted to life in prison in this week's episode. We'll examine Robert's early life and oak harbor Washington as well as his early victims next week. We'll discuss the rest of his Spokane victim. Tmz his arrest and murder trials. Before Robert was even born murder was part of his family's history. In nineteen Forty-five Roberts, father, Robert senior lived, a seemingly quiet life in van Buren. Tennessee with his parents Fifty-three-year-old novella Johnson Yates and fifty five year old John Taylor Yates, John worked as a farmer and as such wasn't home for long stretches of time. This put most of the domestic and child rearing pressures on novella who was raising their eleven children collect Tober twelfth nineteen Forty-five Roberts senior was a young boy sleeping in his upstairs bedroom, he awoke to loud noises downstairs and went to investigate Robert senior saw his father lying on the floor of a bedroom bleeding from his head novella sat calmly and quietly in another room as if nothing had happened, but something did clearly transpire between the couple novella had killed John with a double edged axe. Medical examiners found that John Yates had four wounds on his head and face, including one that spanned the entire right side of his head and penetrated the brain John was taken to the hospital and died of his injuries six days later on October eighteenth, nineteen Forty-five, it's unknown. What prompted novella to kill her husband that night. Police arrested novella and charged her with felonious assault. She was released from Warren county jail on a three thousand dollar bond. There are no records to show whether or not she was convicted of the murder she was sent to a mental hospital for unknown and unrecorded reasons where she remained for seven years. Meanwhile, little Roberts senior grew up and married. A woman named Anna may seven years after his grandmother killed his grandfather Robert Gates junior was born on may twenty seventh nineteen fifty two in oak harbor Washington. He was the second child to Robert senior an. Anime gates Yates was a quiet child well-mannered will behaved and well, meaning he didn't make any trouble in oak harbor a town on Washington's would be island with striking views of the Olympic mountains in the Pacific Ocean. Robert senior was a religious man and a very involved member of the Seventh Day Adventist church. Seventh Day Adventists is a form of Protestant. Christianity that believes in the forthcoming return of Jesus Christ to earth on like most Christian denominations seventh day. Adventists observed the Sabbath on Saturdays. They avoid meat drugs and alcohol. Robert seniors local church congregation was made up of about one hundred people pe- took his participation seriously. He wanted to pass along his values to his son rubber junior grew up with a close bond to his father his father coached little league. Baseball team Robert junior was specifically interested in pitching, the attended church together at Robertson. Sang in the church choir. They hunted deer went fishing and hike together. Often Roberts close friend. Al Ghamdi said there was a lot of respect in that family. They were the type of people you'd want as your neighbor from the outside young Robert Lee was a picture perfect kid. But despite this there was a dark stain on Robert's childhood at age six Robert lived next door to a family with an eleven year old son. It's unclear if the eleven year old and Robert were friends, but either way the eleven year old allegedly sexually abused. Robert at age six Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology here just to remind her. She's not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but she has done a lot of research for the show. Thanks, greg. According to Dr Suzanne babble MFT thirty five percent of children who were sexually abused. Grow up to sexually abuse others victims of sexual abuse are also much more likely to develop unusual or hyper sexual. Savior, and repeat the pattern of abuse. In some way, as we will see the sexual nature of Robert Gates is crimes are consistent with this behavior and could give us some insight on what motivated him to murder as grew up Roberts neighbors and ochre knew him as a hard working young man, he frequently mowed lawns. Around the neighborhood pumped gas at the local gas station and harvested peas with the farmer to earn one dollar an eight cents an hour. But according to some sources Robert had a dark side, even during childhood at one point he began hurting and torturing innocent animals at age eleven Robert may have set fire to a house, but he was not formally charged or accused of the arson in highschool Robert was a pitcher for the Okara. Wildcats varsity baseball team, his former teammate, Harry Ferrier remembered Robert dozen average Joe saying he could throw a fastball with precision he was kind of quiet. A few of his oh carber high school classmates and teachers remembered Robert as a quiet student who turned into Simon's on time. Robert also played football briefly, but quit during his sophomore year in nineteen sixty eight he had a steady girlfriend for most of high school. He wasn't just an athlete. Robert was also part of the school Claire and talented writer his classmates recall today, when he read a son at to his English class allowed the thought it was a work written by Shakespeare, but Robert had written the sonnet himself during his senior year in nineteen seventy eighteen year old Robert's girlfriend moved away. So he skipped the oh carber homecoming dance. Instead, he invited close friend Al gaudy over to his home to play canasta a card game Godley remembered, quote, he didn't smoke and he didn't drink. We didn't give into peer pressure. That wasn't our thing. Our thing was hunting, and fishing and hiking, and quote, Robert and gaudy Bonn. Ended over their common career aspirations. They wanted to become doctors biologists or Park Rangers. Together. They went on a sixteen hour backpacking trip with the goal of catching a twenty inch trout the fish was famous for living in an isolated lake. Washington's cascade mountains in addition to wanting to catch the trout Robert was fascinated by eagles and birds flying overhead in the mountains and dreamed of flying himself after graduation, Robert and Godley attended Skagit valley community college together while there he began dating an eighteen year old classmate named Shirley Neil under. He graduated with an associate of arts degree in general studies in nineteen seventy two at age twenty proper to Neil Lindor got married on August, twenty seventh nineteen seventy two and moved to the city of college place together to attend Walla Walla college Robert chose that specific school because it was run by Seventh Day Adventists at wall. Walla he pursued pre med studies. But Robert's first marriage didn't last long in one thousand nine seventy four Shirley, moved out of their college place apartment returned home and asked for divorce her reasons for leaving the marriage, or unknown. But twenty two year old Robert didn't contest to request and moved on quickly. Robert began dating Walla Walla college classmate Linda brewer almost immediately after his split. From Shirley, Linda, soon became pregnant in July nineteen seventy four they got married in a small ceremony. But there was one problem. The marriage took place before his divorce to surely was finalized Robert had Linda's marriage was considered invalid because he was still married to someone else. But Linda didn't care she was in love and for the time being that was all that mattered. But about a month after their wedding Roberts new pseudo bride began noticing that her husband had some odd habits one day, she found a home. Whole he drilled in the attic when to realize the whole looked into their next door neighbor's apartment Robert had made the hole. So we could watch the couple in the apartment next door have sex. Perturbed Linda left Robert, but they quickly reconciled and resumed their relationship a month later it's unclear if Robert continued his voyeurism in the attic, Shirley and Roberts divorce became final. In August, nineteen seventy four a few months later in December nineteen seventy four Linda gave birth to a daughter named Sasha the birth of their first child motivated Robert to drop out of college and find a steady job. Linda's father had worked as a corrections officer at the Washington state penitentiary in Walla Walla for eighteen years and Robert decided to join him. He became a guard at the prison in July nineteen seventy-five though, this career would be short lived some sources say twenty three year old Robert worked at the prison for three to four months and others say he lasted up to six months before he quit either way. Linda's family were confused by Roberts sporadic behavior. It didn't help that Robert gave no explanation for quitting. In fact, his real motive for distancing himself from the area wouldn't be unearthed for over a decade Robert had begun to kill. We'll learn of Roberts first victims in a moment. Torrid is a fashion brand for women who wear sizes ten to thirty. And they have everything you could possibly imagine. They have jeans intimates, cute dresses and tops. They even have shoes accessories and jewelry, my friend Lizzie. 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You spend torrid dot com promo code serial fifteen. Now back to the story. In one thousand nine hundred seventy five Robert Lee resigned from the Washington state penitentiaries suddenly and without explanation, but the real reason for his resignation may have been related to his first two known murders on July thirteenth nineteen seventy five. Twenty one year old Patrick Oliver and twenty two year old Susan savage. We're to close friends spending some time together and mill creek park in Walla Walla, Oliver and savage had good reputations. In the town. They were both. Well, liked top students who came from good families. He had just returned from studying in France, while savage recently, graduated from Washington state university, the friends met up for a picnic in mill creek park and even went for a swim in the lake mill creek park now known as mill creek dam and Bennington lake is a popular spot in Walla Walla the sprawling six hundred acre recreational area has many hiking trails, according to the Washington trails association is also a popular spot for burgers biker. There's hunters runners and anglers that day Robert Gates was in the same area for hunting target practice. It's not clear why or how but Robert approached the couple's sometime during his target practice activities. Walla Walla county sheriff Mike Humphries told the Walla Walla union bulletin quote. I think he went up there to target shoot. Like, he usually did he came across these people and it happened and quote his shot. Oliver three times the last bullet was especially fatal it pierced Oliver's heart propert, left savage with two fatal gunshot wounds, one in her shoulder and the other in her head behind her left ear Robert took most of the clothes off Savage's unconscious body and placed on top of Oliver in a sexual manner. Robert covered both dead bodies with a pile of brush and army sleeping bag and a tire killers sometimes position the bodies of their victims in suggestive. Ways in order to send a message, author and investigative historian Peter Vronsky elaborated on this in his book, serial killers, the method and madness of monsters. They're two ways a killer could position a body post mortem, the first is called staging when the killer arranges the corpses in a way meant to confuse or mislead investigators. But if the victims are arranged in a sexual or perverse manner that fulfils the killers own fantasies. It's called posing considering that Oliver and savages bodies were hidden from plain sight, Robert may have been posing the corpses to act out a perverse fantasy for his own pleasure. According to a two thousand four study in the journal of forensic science killers who pose bodies wanna shock anyone who discovers the bodies of the victims. The study also found that female victims tend to be the ones who are staged posed or left in some kind of unusual position after being murdered posed bodies can. Indicate that sexual assault had occurred. And that the manner of death was particularly hands on for the killer usually victims who are left in an unusual position have been stabbed bound or bludgeoned Robert killed savage at point blank range, which also denotes a certain hands on closeness to next day. Oliver's brother, Dan, and his uncle Frank Munn noticed Oliver and savage didn't return home the night before Dan Inman, went out looking for them at mill creek, Dan, recalled I saw funny arrangement of debris near the edge of the creek by found them Dan in mon-, drove straight to the local police station to report what they had found in the park. Police investigated the murder and didn't turn up any leads at the time. It was also unclear if Oliver savage had been sexually assaulted in the attack, but Robert would never be a suspect in the murder. He would only be convicted of it after confessing to it over a decade later, in fact. Robert was nowhere near the murders. At the time. He had already distanced himself from the nearby prison and found new employment as a movie theater usher sometime later in one thousand nine hundred seventy five he and Linda moved back to Roberts hometown of oak Arbor likely because his mother had been battling cancer. Shortly after arrival Twenty-three-year-old, Robert Lee aids took a job as a janitor at Whidbey island hospital where his mother worked as the housekeeping supervisor in July nineteen Seventy-six Robert and Linda through a second wedding and were officially married it took place in oak Arbor with Robert's parents as witnesses Linda officially took Roberts last name. But she joined the family just as another year it's passed on on October, ninth nineteen seventy six Robert's mother, Anna may died of cancer, Robert and his friend Godley were pallbearers at our funeral Gotti claimed that the death didn't affect Robert too much because Robert anatomy. He didn't have a close relationship. He told the Seattle times. Quote, boys aren't attached to their mothers like girls are. It doesn't throw us over the edge and quote sometime in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven Robert became a father again when Linda gave birth to their second child Sonya on October fourth nineteen seventy seven Robert listed in the US army at age twenty five he was older than the other recruits, but proceeded to train at basis in Missouri, Texas and Massachusetts in one thousand nine hundred eighty twenty eight year old Robert was chosen to train as an army pilot fulfilling his childhood dream of flying in order to become an army pilot individuals or selected for special training called warrant officer candidate school Roberts training for this took place at fort Rucker, Alabama, the army's aviation centre in July nineteen eighty before he was allowed to fly planes. He started his training with helicopters Brevard became a highly skilled helicopter pilot, his color. Called him an excellent pilot knowledgeable and safety conscious from nineteen eighty until nineteen Eighty-four Robert was stationed in Germany located about fifteen miles from Frankfurt, Linda and his daughters remained in Washington, but Robert visited the family while on leave during what of Robert's trips home, Robert Linda expanded their family during this time, Linda gave birth to two more children their third daughter amber in one thousand nine hundred eighty and their fourth daughter Michelle who was born in nineteen Eighty-four the eights family now had four daughters Sasha amber, Sonia, and Michelle, but despite their large family, Robert and Linda seemed happy to keep their lives separate she raised their daughters, while Robert served in the military, he rarely mentioned his wife to his army colleagues, and many didn't even know he was married even when he was back in the states, Robert and Linda spent time apart in one thousand nine hundred four thirty two. Year old Robert became an instructor at fort Rucker, Alabama for various aviation training battalions he was an instructor pilot for the OH fifty eight the Kiowa which was used as the army's primary observation helicopter at the time shortly after in one thousand nine hundred five Linda moved back to Walla Walla with their children and did not depend on Roberts financial support Linda was happy for a bit. But she found it hard to support herself and her daughters on her own Linda said, quote, I loved the separation, but the girls were pleading to be with their dad. They didn't want to be poor and not have anything anymore and quote, so Linda reunited with Robert in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight in July of that year. While Robert Lee was on leave he returned home to Okara. Meanwhile, in nearby Skagit county Twenty-three year-old Stacy Elizabeth Hawn was working as a sex worker on July. Seventh nine thousand nine hundred eighty eight. Eight thirty six year old Robert encountered Hawn presumably while she was looking for customers. It's not clear exactly what happened during their encounter. But months later on December twenty eighth nineteen Eighty-eight. Authorities found haunts remains outside mount Vernon she had been shot once in the head at first police believed that Han was a victim of Gary Leon Ridgway the green river killer. He was another active serial killer who targeted sex workers in Washington state at the time, However, Robert confessed to murdering Hawn years later, and it would play a big role in his trial sometime in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight the army re-stationed, Robert and Germany this time in gulping in about one hundred and nine hundred miles from eunuch, he remained there for three years. We don't know for sure if Robert killed again in Germany, but at present German authorities consider him a potential suspect in a string of twenty six unsolved homicides. His imb. Element in those homicides is still being investigated in one thousand nine hundred nine Robert's wife, Linda who was still in the states gave birth to Kyle the couple's first son and fifth child. Overall, Robert favored is son and began to neglect his four daughters Sasha Sonya, amber, and Michelle it's unknown in what ways he treated his son differently than his daughters? But it's usually typical for parents to view sons and daughters differently. Dr Glenn Wilson, professor in gender and sexual psychology told the mirror that the fact that men and their sons share y chromosomes which carry more genetic material than women's double x chromosomes could point to an instinctual preference for sons, it also may have to do with common. Interests Wilson told the publication in two thousand ten before the birth of father would assume he'd connect with his son, psychologically, more so than with his daughter and that they'd have more shared interests such as. Playing football. But regardless of how much Robert Kerridge for any of his children. He was off in too far from home to see them Robert returned to the United States in one thousand nine hundred ninety one and served as a flight instructor at the fort drum bass in New York, Robert was also part of the fort drum assault helicopter division. Andy went on several missions with the team. It was during one of these missions that Robert drew attention to himself a story that would get more attention than many of his murders in December nineteen ninety two. He served in operation restore hope in Somalia while serving Robert and his fellow soldiers became tired of eating army food and craved barbecue Robert decided to do something about it. One day he flew the Kiowa helicopter over a nearby forest and took aim at a wild pig below. The pig was hit Robert and the rest of the crew landed the helicopter after the shot. They gutted the pig and loaded it onto the helicopter thrilled for the fresh meat. Robert was not reprimanded for his unauthorized joyride or unbecoming actions. Dennis mills who served with Robert recall that it wasn't taken very seriously. He told the Seattle times, quote, they tried to court martial him because he didn't go through the proper channels. It all turned into a big joke after awhile. It didn't hurt a damn thing. They were just trying to get some fresh meat and quote, many serial killers seem to display violent tendencies towards animals as children and adults. According to an F B I report in two thousand sixteen if a person hurts animals, then they're likely to hurt humans or will do so in the future. John Thompson deputy executive director of the national sheriff's association told the FBI, quote if somebody is harm. An animal. There's a good chance there also hurting a human if we see patterns of animal abuse. The odds are that something else is going on and quote, but nobody suspected Robert of anything more sinister at the time probably because they viewed his hunting trip as little more than a desire for good barbecue rather than consequences. Robert was promoted after this stint overseas in nineteen Ninety-four Robert return to the United States and became a pilot who trains army aviation instructors at fort Rucker in Alabama at the time. He was one of only ten army instructors on that highly trained level miles Merrill, one of Robert's former students recalled quote, Bob was really kind of quiet. He was very methodical south things through quite well patients like you wouldn't believe and quote Merrill, spent seven hours a day with Robert for the eight weeks of training throughout that time. Robert mentioned his children, but never mentioned his wife. Merrythought Robert was a single dad Robert received at least thirty days of leave a year from the army during one such leave in nineteen Ninety-four Robert badeah, white nineteen seventy seven corvette, he drove it back to the base a move that would later come back to haunt him occasionally, Linda attended parties on the fort Rucker base with Robert she saw a whole new side of him at the events Robert drank alcohol and flirted with other women his colleagues called him JAMES BOND. Linda was shocked at her husband's behavior, but she tolerated it his army pay helped support their family and she needed it for her children. Plus Linda was still living in Washington while Robert was stationed in Alabama. So she rarely had to deal with his excessive flirting and other bad behaviors his time in fort Rucker co-incidently aligned with the murder of -tarian Corbett, a nineteen year old transgender woman who was killed on August tenth nineteen ninety-five. Some sources say she was a sex worker. Corporate was last seen at a nightspot in dothan, Alabama, located twenty miles south of fort Rucker. The next morning Corbett was found by an unidentified bystander in a remote area along the nearby to Hatschi river she had been shot in the face several times with a forty five caliber pistol at the time. Police theorize the murder may of connection to fort Rucker due to its proximity. But that was little more than a hunch, and no leads ever materialized. It wasn't until decades later that Robert was considered a suspect in the case, Dale county. Detectives were unable to determine if Robert owned a forty five caliber pistol at the time, but they knew he would have been familiar with the area due to his time on the military base, though, police consider Robert a suspect he was never formally charged with it eight days after Corbett's murder. Robert graduated from an instructor pilot course at fort Rucker on August eighteenth. Nine hundred ninety five later that month he received a master army aviator badge, which symbolized his fifteen years. That's a military helicopter pilot. He'd been a pilot for the majority of his eighteen years in the service around this time the army underwent a reduction enforces forty four year old Robert accepted incentive to leave the army after eighteen years of service. It was a shock to most people because Robert was only two years shy of the twenty year Mark, which is when he would qualify for full military retirement benefits back in Alabama police continued Corbett's murder investigation. Several sources have theorized that forever did murder carpet. The investigation is most likely what caused Robert to leave the army in nineteen Ninety-six Roberts deal allowed him to continue receiving forty five percent of his normal annual pay likely around twenty thousand dollars a year during his eighteen year career Robert earned eleven honors. Including several army achievement medals and meritorious service medals after retiring from the army in nineteen Ninety-six Roberts front Al Ghamdi recalled that Robert found a good deal on a home in Spokane Washington, Robert moved his family into the new home in south hill on a cul de sac with well manicured lawns. But this idyllic neighborhood was unsettling Lee close to the most notorious street in Spokane will learn how that street got its CD reputation in a moment. Love is patient. Love is kind. But sometimes love is deadly some couples may appear happy, but we don't always know what happens behind closed doors every week the par cast networks new podcast crimes of passion. Analyzes, the relationship, dynamics and psychology that leads to betrayal crimes and even murder. New episodes of crimes of passion, come out every Wednesday. You can listen right now to the first episode of the deaths of Edwin and Wilma height whose dismembered bodies were found floating on the surface of the lake and look for upcoming episodes on Lorena Bobbitt, Amy Fisher, and Joey buttafuoco and the boyfriend killer Jodi areas, find out what happens when true love meets true crime search for and subscribe to crimes of passion wherever you listen to podcasts. Again, search crimes of passion or visit park. Fast dot com slash passion to listen now. Now back to the story in one thousand nine hundred ninety six Robert Lee Yates, and his wife, Linda hoped there moved to Spokane Washington might rekindle the romance in their marriage. Although that wasn't the case Linden. Robert soon realized that they no longer felt the same about each other. But they decided to stay together as they raised their five children. Linda said, quote, the romance was gone, but I felt guilty about splitting up the family. The kids love their dad, and I just kind of suffered through it and quote after leaving the service Robert found his military retirement package wasn't enough to support his children. He began to look for a new job. But despite being an accomplished pilot, his work experience wasn't directly applicable to the civilian workforce. And he had trouble. Finding work in September nineteen ninety six forty four year old Robert took a job at petrol Inc. A company that assembled electronic instruments used in heavy. Machinery pantr- all owner, Tony Gibbons recalled, quote, he was a good worker who mostly kept to himself. Nothing. Really stuck out about him. He was just an average Joe pretty quiet by didn't talk to him much. But he seemed friendly enough and quote once Robert had a steady income he took up a new hobby at home cars he owned three in nineteen Ninety-six Robert worked on the cars in wash them off in the family's front yard. The entire neighborhood was familiar with his enthusiasm for cars and neighbors often joked that they wanted Robert to wash their cars to Robert hid behind his love of cars, even as his own child. Got a sense of his dark tendencies one day in nineteen Ninety-six. His now nineteen year old daughter Sonia found her father's address book and looked through it. She noticed it was filled with names of women. She didn't recognize Sonia. Started to go through the address book and call the women one by one she ash. Asked them if they knew her father, and they each answered no when confronted about the address book Robert told Sonya that he was buying used car parts from the women named in the book. Even though the women said, they didn't know him. However, Linda to had reason to be suspicious of her husband. She noticed the family was running out of money has her husband frequently withdrew cash from ATM's Roberts response. He told her to get a job, although Robert and Linda's marriage had been loveless for years, it had stayed physical. But after Robert left the service they began to have issues in the bedroom as well around this time, Linda recalled Robert used to talk about being impotent and wanted to take Viagra. She remembered telling him, quote, it's okay, you're probably tired and I'm tired and quote erectile dysfunction in men over forty is relatively common. A two thousand thirteen study of four hundred thirty nine men in the journal of sexual medicine re. Revealed that forty percent of men over forty were affected. One day in nineteen Ninety-six Linda found Roberts, pornographic magazines filled with images of orgies. She also found a piece of paper with more names a list of people interested in group sex. Another time Robert asks, Linda if she was interested in kissing. Another woman Linda had accepted that Robert was looking for sex outside of their marriage. Meanwhile, his assignments at pantr- will slowed to a halt. So forty four year old Robert took a job at the Kaiser aluminum processing plant his colleagues were much younger than him. So they often saw him as a father figure Roberts. Kaiser colleagues described him as a family guy. He often took coffee breaks with Tim Buchanan at the plant Buchanan, recalled, quote, he got along with all of us and quote Roberts started out at the processing plant is a carpenter working with carbon and the aluminum making process, then he became an. Overhead crane operator Kaiser's spokesperson. Susan ash said quote by all accounts. He was a good worker. He had a very good work record, and quote, but the job wasn't enough for Robert his darker side began to emerge on the most dangerous street in Spokane. At some point in nineteen Ninety-six, Robert Lee Yates visited the notorious east Sprague avenue in Spokane the area had a reputation for being crime riddled a haven for sex workers. The spokesman review reported in two thousand seventeen that throughout the years east Sprague avenue head up to thirty sex workers a day occupying corners and throughout the nineteen ninety s sex workers from the avenue often ended up murdered one particular east Sprague avenue sex worker, thirty eight year old Shannon. Ours. Alinsky was last seen alive on may twenty seventh nineteen Ninety-six. She was a former waitress and heroin user. So linski was also the mother to a twenty year old daughter Zilenski had a criminal record with drug possession and theft charges on that day. She was drinking alcohol with a group of men near Sprague avenue. A police officer approached the group, but no arrests were made. Later that evening. Witnesses say they saw Zielinski leave. Her nearby residents for sex work. She wore a grey dress and high black boots if unclear how Robert met at ski or how they're encountered turned deadly. But on June fourteenth, nineteen Ninety-six the last day of classes at the local high school two teenage boys decided to investigate a rotting stench at their school bus stop in the foothills of mount Spokane they had noticed the smell for a few days and set off to find the source the teens thought the foul odor might be coming from a deer carcass or a dead raccoon. They found neither in their search. The boys reached hokum road and explored the nearby brush. They saw something lying beneath low-hanging pine branches. It was the remains of a woman's body. Maggots infested a woman's body. Clad in a grey dress a blue towel had been draped over the body barely covering it. The boy spotted a pair of pantyhose a pair of white socks and one high black boot near the remains terrified the teens ran home and contacted the police they returned to show Spokane county sheriff deputy Brent Garret the body. They had found sheriff's detective, Rick grabbing Stein examined the crime scene and theorized that the woman had been killed somewhere else since the forest area. Didn't show any signs of struggle or blood the spot near Holcomb road just happened to be the killers dumping site. The woman's head had two gunshot wounds one of the right side and one on the left. Police tried to take a sperm sample from the body that could help track down the killer. But the body was too decomposed. There was no idea or wallet found on the body or nearby. Authorities. Use the body's fingerprints to identify her as Zilin s-k-y. Forensic entomologist. Dr Neil Haskell examined the maggots founded silence crime scene to figure out the data for death. He studied the development of the insect which was identified as the black blow. Fly maggot this detail would later become crucial to the murder case. The life cycle length of the black blow. Fly maggot is determined by temperature its life cycle will fully advance through all of the stages. If the temperature is at least around seventy degrees Fahrenheit, otherwise its life cycle will be stunted based on the light stage of the maggots found in the body and the outside temperature in the days leading up to the body's discovery Haskell determined that the bodies date of death was around may twenty sixth or twenty seventh nineteen Ninety-six. This also aligned with the fact that linski was last seen alive around the same time among the maggots grabbing Stein found a shell casing near where the body was found ballistics. Experts identified the munition used as a twenty five caliber gun Robert used this murder weapon for several more of his victims grabbing Stein had been familiar with silence. Ski and arrested her on east Sprague avenue several times for drug possession and theft. He was unable to recognize her face due to the advanced state of decomposition. The detective personally told Celinski is mother Shannon Laughlin about her death. She said she knew as soon as she saw him Laughlin said I always thought it was going to happen. Eventually Robert wasn't identified as a suspect. Insulin skis murder at the time. She lived at dangerous life in her east Sprague avenue activities in addition to sex work. She had recently ripped off notorious drug dealer who vehemently refused to take a lie detector test. It's Alinsky was also a potential key witness in the case against Joe Joe Andrews, a murder suspect who allegedly shot two people in Spokane in nineteen ninety four. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter a year later police initially believed she could have been murdered in connection with that case months later, Linda caught Robert with blood on his hands. Literally in the fall of nineteen Ninety-six, Linda noticed that Robert didn't return home one night, the next morning, he returned home and blood covered. The back of their van Robert told her that he had run over a dog and driven it to a veterinarian. She said she believed him, it's unknown. If the story had some truth to it. Or if the blood belonged to a still unknown human victim, Robert began amassing more victims in nineteen Ninety-seven after a big blow to his ego almost exactly a year after his army retirement Robert joined the national guard in Washington in April nineteen ninety seven at age forty five his goal was to fly helicopters again. Lieutenant Colonel Rick Patterson, a national guard spokesperson said he came to us. Very very. Defied Robert train near Tacoma once a month in order for Robert to be able to fly helicopters for the national guard. He had to undergo a routine medical examination he had to remain grounded. In the meantime, but there was a lengthy delay in processing the approval for flight. Some sources say an unknown ailment was found in Robert's examination and doctors kept him grounded from flight from April nineteen ninety seven until spring of nineteen ninety eight his performance evaluations stated that his morale and dedication remained high even though he couldn't fly but on the ground. There seemed to be another side to Robert it was during this time period when he murdered the majority of his victims next week. We'll discuss the thirteen murders Robert committed between nineteen ninety seven and nineteen ninety eight mostly on east Sprague avenue. We'll also see how a glaring clerical error involving his beloved white corvette kept police off his. Trail for years and during that time period. This murderous pilot was free to comb the St. for victims buck terror both on the street and in the sky. There was literally no where to hide from Roberts watchful eye. Thanks again for tuning into serial killers. 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