17 Burst results for "Fogo Island"
"fogo island" Discussed on Serial Killers
"Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of sexual assault rape animal cruelty and violence that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. Fourteen year old keith. Jespersen wiped the tears off his cheek as he ran down the dock that jutted into the atlantic but the tranquil ocean waves did little to calm his anger. The trip to fogo island was supposed to be fun. A relaxing family vacation that everyone could enjoy but once again. Keith's father had ruined everything keith. Look to see if anyone from his family at followed him but no one was there good. He thought he hated them. He wanted to be alone. Keith ida pile of fishing nets at the end of the dock then attempted to hide his large frame underneath them at fourteen he was just about six feet tall going on two hundred pounds. It was a struggle but he managed to curl himself underneath the netting shrouded in darkness. Keith listened to the water lapping and allowed his mind to wander. He pretended that he was the creature from the black lagoon. The prehistoric sea monster from a movie he'd seen years before with this fantasy the rage coursing through his veins grew. He didn't wanna hide anymore. he wanted revenge. I.
"fogo island" Discussed on As It Happens from CBC Radio
"Hey? It's Annamaria Tramonte and I'm excited to tell you about my new podcast. It's called more and I'll be talking to the people. You may think you already know until you hear them here. We've got a little more time to explore and probe and even to play a little so get ready for the likes of David. Suzuki Catherine O'Hara Margaret Atwood. And many others. You can find more with Anna Maria tramonte wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Aw from the booker to the Nobel to the Pulitzer to the Geller. There's no shortage of literary prizes in this world. There is however a notable shortage footage of female winners of those prices. That's something some countries have worked to correct the. UK's Women's prize for fiction has become one of the country's most prestigious and that's it's winter a cool thirty thousand pounds. Australia's Stella Prize is similarly rich but Canada and the United States have been lagging behind and Canadian novelist. Susan Susan Swan has noticed. That's why she and Harpercollins editor Janice a word have teamed up to launch the one hundred fifty thousand dollar Carol Shields Prize for fiction. We've reached Susan Swan in Toronto. Susan left so special about this award. Well it's very unique award in it it. Is You know an award that has offered both in Canada and the US two women. Two women writers for a piece of fiction short story or a novel with different. I think it'll make it'll make a big difference for one thing. It will boost the sales of the books of the women who are nominated or win and I think it will do a a couple of other things as well. I think that it's already. We were developing huge mentoring aspect to the prize and then it will be in public record forever that these women one those prizes and it will go a long way to making sure that women's fiction is you know recognize because for instance. I think an author like Carol Shields. Who often wrote about domestic settings and relationships there would be a tendency traditionally relate to dismiss a woman writer who dealt with those teams as as lightweight? Oh yes it's very good but it's not really serious literature and and I think having the historical record of the winners and nominees and the celebrations changes that ship. Something now it's interesting. You didn't mention. Ah that it's going to make some women. Some women writer. I well not rich for a long time but pretty well off one hundred and fifty thousand dollar prize fries. This is going to be more than any other literary prize that we have here. So why so much money. Well I thought we needed to go big big because first of all it's not a national price. It involves two countries so that's a lot that's a lot of writers and then secondly really if it was More modest amount. There'd be a tendency for people to think it was a niche price. Oh that's just the woman's prize and not pay much attention to it but this way you can't ignore US fifty thousand. US It will change. Depending on who the corporate sponsor is for the actual prize. Money and at the moment it's Canadians. The different American sponsor comes in later in the game. You know sponsors don't last forever Then it will be an American currency and we are. You know we're halfway. We've raised the money for the prize itself into Related costs but we're still on a fundraising push to raise money for the administrative costs. Now they're quite. It's quite a roster of female writers who are supporting this prize. And who have helped you to put it together. Can you tell us a bit about who you recruited like. Oh it's a long list. But yes Margaret Atwood. LS Monroe. Louise Louise air-traffic Jane Smiley Erica. Yang Dionne brand francine prose and the. US list goes on and they are patrons turns these are seasoned women writers and then there's a huge pool of advocates who has helped with the fundraising who have you know been enthusiastic ask and supported the prize. And we've had also helped from some professional fundraisers you know it's taken almost a decade of work of networking and receiving help for mini mini groups of people. You know you are. I understand you've had some push-back from Mayo Authors. WHO said things like? Where do you draw the line? Can you tell us about some of that. Response initially the price was called the Roslyn prize after a Shakespearean character and when we brought it out sort heard of some discussion of that on facebook originally some male authors complained we. Would you know what we're we were. We doing Now we'd have have to have prizes for every ethnicity and I pointed out that actually women represented every ethnishity. So that was that was pretty funny. But when We changed the name to the Carol Shields Price. We didn't really get any pushback. Because she's such a beloved figure and but on the issue of ethnishity. I know that I mean ah course women are still trying to get into Into the inner circle into to break through some serious barriers to their publication. That's why you putting during the price up but a lot of criticism of the publishing world that still An old guard world whether it's men or women it's it's very white vary established. So so how do you break that down. Well I think the place where we're focusing. Most on diversity is in the selection of the jurors. I've had some advice from roxane gay in the estates. And she said to widen widen your definition of diversity to include transgender to include people with disabilities. He's to include working class as well. As as racing this necessity we will work hard to build up a database of jerseys that reflect all those aspects of human life that what else we do because it may I would imagine there's a fairburn suspicion that yeah this is just going to be another a different kind of establishment and and will not include first nations indigenous. People I and other ethnicities who are people trying to break in and trying to be part of that establishment well we're working with indigenous writers and women of Color Writers and they've been involved In the prize you you know we have no intention of of just repeating what's been done before in world of men that's right now. I I see this really. Is You know morphine into publishing network of women in the business who help other women and older women helping younger women but you know it will be a lot of information sharing and we have mentoring programs where the writer who wins will pick an emerging writer for instance advance center And they will spend spent two weeks at Banff Centre and do a workshop together and in a public event and we have another similar residency at Fogo island in Dan with the the winner or nominee in an emerging writer and then we have some ongoing discussions about providing awards to women uh who are writers and single mothers and women who are writers and refugees. And we're working with a number of organizations to get those in place. These things are all so time consuming In terms of getting a contract figured out. But I'm pretty sure that they're gonNA happen citizens to talk to you. Thank you thank you Carol. Susan Swan is the CO creator of the new Carol Shields Prize for fiction which will award one hundred and fifty thousand dollars to female or non binary writer in Canada or the US us. We reached Miss Swann in Toronto.
"fogo island" Discussed on As It Happens from CBC Radio
"Hi I'm rich Barton. Pardon am elamine Abdel Mahmoud and we are the hosts of party lines we launch his podcast to help you make sense of the two thousand nineteen federal election. But here's the thing you liked us you legged so much that we're coming back. We will drop a new episode every Thursday and we will talk about the biggest political stories of the week. It will be smart and fun on party lines and get it wherever you get your podcast from because talking politics should be forever including you and me and all of us from the booker to the Nobel to the Pulitzer to the Giller. There's no shortage of literary prizes in this world. There is however a notable label shortage of female winners of those prices. That's something some countries have worked to correct the. UK's Women's prize for fiction has become one of the country's most prestigious and that's it's winners a cool thirty thousand pounds. Australia's Stella Prize is similarly rich but Canada and the United States have been lagging behind and Canadian novelist. Susan Swan has noticed. That's why she and Harpercollins editor Janice word me have teamed up to launch the one hundred fifty thousand dollar Carol Shields Prize for fiction. We've reached Susan Swan in Toronto. Susan let so special about this award. Well it's a very unique award in it. It is an award that is offered both in Canada and the US two women two women writers for a piece of fiction short story or novel what differences. I think it'll make it'll make a big difference for one thing. It will boost sales of the books of the women who are nominated or win and I think it will do a couple of other things as well. I think that it's already. We were developing a huge mentoring aspect to the prize and then it will be in public public record forever that these women one those prizes and it will go a long way to making sure that women's fiction is you you recognize because for instance I think an author like Carol Shields who often wrote about domestic settings and relationships there would be a tendency traditionally additionally to dismiss a woman writer who dealt with those things as lightweight. Oh yes it's very good but it's not really serious literature and I think having the historical record of the winners and nominees and the celebrations changes ship something. Now it's interesting. You didn't mention attention is that it's going to make some Woman some women rider well not rich for a long time but pretty well off one hundred and fifty thousand dollar prize. This is going to be more than any other literary prize that we have here. So why so much money. Well I thought we needed to go big because first of all. It's not a national prize. It involves two countries so that's a lot that's a lot of writers and then secondly really if it it was a more modest amount. There'd be a tendency for people to think it was a niche prize. Oh that's just the woman's prize and not pay much attention to it but this way you can't ignore US thousand. US It will change depending on who the corporate sponsor is for the actual prize. Money and at the moment it's Canadian agents but if an American sponsor comes in later in the game you know sponsors don't last forever Then it will be an American currency and and we are. You know we're halfway. We've raised the money for the prize itself and the related costs but we're still on a fundraising push to raise money any for the administrative cost. Now they're quite. It's quite a roster of female writers who are supporting. This is a new have helped you to put it together. Can you tell us a bit about who you recruited my gosh. It's a long list. But yes Margaret Atwood LS Monroe. Oh Louise air-traffic Jane Smiley Orca. Yang dealing brand francine prose and the US. The list goes on and they are the patrons these are seasoned women writers and then there's a huge pool of advocates who have helped with the fundraising. Who Have you know been Susastro and supported the prize? And we've had also helped from some professional fundraisers you know it's taken almost a decade of work of networking and receiving help help from many many groups of people you know you are. I understand. You've had some pushback from Mayo Authors. WHO said things like? Where do you draw the line? I mean can you tell us about some of that response. Initially the prize was called the Roslyn prize after Shakespearean character and when we brought it out sort of some discussion of that on facebook originally some male authors complained that we would you know what were we. Unearth redoing Now all we have to have prizes for every ethnishity and I pointed out that actually women represented every ethnicity. And so that was that was pretty funny but when We changed the name to the Carol Shields Price. We didn't really get any pushback. Because she's such a beloved figure and but on the issue of ethnishity I know that I mean of course women are still trying to get into Into the inner circle and to to break through some serious barriers to their publication. That's why you putting the prize up but a lot of criticism of the publishing world that still an old guard world whether it's men or women it's very white vary established. So how do you break that down. Well I think the place where we're focusing. Most on diversity is in the selection of jurors. I've had some advice from Roxane. Gay in the states. And she said to widen widen your definition of diversity to include transgender to include people with disabilities abilities to include working class. As well as as racing this Mississippi we will work hard to build up a database of jerseys that reflect all also aspects of human life. That what else we do because it may I would imagine is a fair bit of suspicion that yeah this is going to be another a different kind of establishment contender. I will not include. First nations indigenous people a and other ethnicities who are people trying to break in and I'm trying to be part of that establishment. Well we're working with indigenous writers and women of Color Writers and they've been involved In the prize you know we have no intention of of just repeating. What's been done before we? That's right no I see this really biggest you know morphing into big publishing network of women in the business to help other women and older women helping younger women who you know it will be a lot a lot of information sharing and we have mentoring programs where the writer who wins will pick an emerging writer for instance vamps center And they will will spend two weeks at Banff Centre do a workshop together and in a public event and we have another similar residency at Fogo island in with the the winner or nominee in an emerging writer and then we have some ongoing discussions about providing awards to women women who are writers and single mothers and women who are writers and refugees. And we're working with a number of organizations to get those in place these things. Things are all time consuming in terms of getting a contract figured out but I'm pretty sure that they're going to happen. This is great to talk to you. Thank you thank you Carol. Thank Susan Swan is the CO creator of the new. Carol Shields Prize for Fiction Will Award one hundred and fifty thousand dollars to a female or non binary writer in Canada or the US. We reached Miss Swann in Toronto..
"fogo island" Discussed on The Current
"I don't think I need to. I tell you that Newfoundland has had a week record breaking snowfall state of emergency twelve foot high snow drifts. In some places people stuck in their houses. Cars being buried carried avalanches coming through people's front doors because the snow is too heavy into big in. It just swept down the hill. The army was called this weekend to help with the big dig out and on Monday morning we wanted to find out what actually it looked like Newfoundland so we put a call into our man. Gus Penton he's on Fogo Island Newfoundland and he told us how people were faring hair. Calloway the current. What does it look like? They're us. How much snow do you have around you? We have men it still common A. Ah It's it's fast and furious. I it it's like we know. Say It don't shop. What is that? What what's the dig? I mean are the roads passable. Can you get out or what is it only out. We're pretty good hair now. But why hasn't hindered storm like that. It was Like new we knew Flanders Not Afraid Prey to win her storm. But what happened in this one was that the conditions were Roy. You had The wind the snow's coming fast and furious. And you had the amount we seen some the photos of what it was like the morning after. What did you wake up to? Oh man it was It was the war house just the chimney just the chimney. You're you just just the chimney and you know here's a goal. The old fellows used to say to us that They put a law and now they did have years ago talk global over warmer which is right. But years ago to entity put Loin on from host to host and he had stables where they kept their livestock and still and in order to get to them they put on and it followed Donald Loin because it was that bad and visibility had no electricity so they follow the law and order and the hoses getting back to the houses. It was that Dad. That's years ago. You're talking about one hundred years ago you ever seen anything like this X. while Octavia what no what happened before let me say it was years ago. not this storm now subsided a bit now. Let me say we're not afraid of winter. We lure resilient. We'll go for winter storm. It was the visibility and the conditions edition in this one in an emergency case. You people on Dialysis Medical Ward Saint. John's is wicked like India. Their don't face to put it in that. But you've got Dialysis I had had a sister on dialysis for years and still would back and forth to Saint John's but it's democracy in case of fire on my source of heat and therefore I forget chimney fire with decrease oil which would like terror when kitches. I'm you won't kiss off to Clare so that makes John as you make your stressful. It's still snowing and it's still snowing today but still time so I wanna now but the top it all off. I'm a shovel. Got A bit hungry so I came in and and you know pure beans and wieners are excellent so often them up and no wieners. All all that work and no wieners in the ten no winners indicate a man disappointed and So anyway I ate them and give me some more energy but Don't we just off but anyway discipline I'm saying to you got to have the supplies and got to have we used Jenner but our heisel is good we're under hydro hair and Hydros inch and they they updated the lines and I gotta make a proposition to you now. The updated the law and share. Because we got a five starring. You got to come visit us. I will. I love the Fogo. Island is a beautiful place. And you got your shoveling the head of a you'll need your energy I'll let you get back to To dig in yourself out Gus. It's good to talk to you Anna Marie Tramonte. Don't she's great she's great and she's probably happy that she's not buried in snow. Although we have a little bit here in Toronto as well Gus thank you make. You're doing good work. Ladies and gentlemen that's Gust Penton on Fogo Island Newfoundland Thera- people who are lobbying for gusts to get his own program or at least a regular spot here on your CBC. We'll keep you posted on that. Any opportunity to talk to us is a good opportunity in the meantime. That's it for this week. My name is Matt Calloway. Thanks for listening Com for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts..
"fogo island" Discussed on The Current
"Hi I'm Jamie for the last decade I've been a newspaper reporter and lately I'm just finding it hard to keep up with the news as of today. Simple possession of marijuana is no longer Goldie go. It can be hard to make sense things. Investigators spent nine hours in the consulates appearance. I want to change that. At least a little Join me weekdays at six. Am for front burner at daily podcast from CBC News. Subscribe now wherever you get your podcast. Hello I'm Matt Galloway. And this is the current weekly on here in New York City after a bomb scare. Shut down a major subway station during the morning commute soon after the NYPD releasing surveillance images these nineteen men went on social media to have sexual conversations with kids and today a cyber age. We're dealing with the new breed of criminal that is an ad for a company called clearview. Ai You might have read about this story. Story got all sorts of attention on social media over the course of this week clearview uses online images to help police track down criminals. If you hadn't heard of this company before for that piece in the New York Times started getting a lot of attention. You're not alone. clearview has worked very hard to keep a low corporate profile which is kind of ironic when and you think about it because profiles are a big part of clearview business. clearview is a company that hasn't grouped the web of with three billion photos from public websites like facebook then Mo instagram educational sites employment tonight in order to create A big public database Where now has a facial recognition out that it can run on all those photos you can take a photo of somebody and it will bring back all the photo scraped of that person along with links to the site Kashmir hill is technology reporter for the New York Times? She wrote that a piece of a clear views work and what she found has been pretty alarming privacy advocates. Yeah I mean maybe you posted on a public social media count. Were you know photos that people have posted of you. like forget thought tax professional site Among the results that were coming in on the APP and so so Yeah it's just photos up on the web and this is something people have long feared what happened because we have put so many photos of ourselves out there but companies that were capable of building a tool like this like Google have said you know this is the one technology they held back because it could be used in such such a bad way But now now it's been done. That taboo has been broken and clearview clearview a I has been working with over six hundred law enforcement agencies in the US and Canada and other places for the last year and You know one had any idea Except for the company itself in mcleese mcleese until this article came out this weekend which rattled a lot of people and was shared. All around the world tell me a little bit just briefly about the company itself who started this thing up so it was founded by a technologist named them one punt that. Who is from Australia and Richard Schwartz who is kind of a longtime new New Yorkers who worked for mayor. Rudolph Giuliani in The nineteen nineties that he was the editorial page editor of The New York. Daily News the into one is thirty. One Richard is sixty one. They met a event at the Manhattan Institute which is a conservative think tank in New York and discovered they had a lot in uncommon And decide to build this facial recognition APP. Together it's funded by Peter Thiel among other investors and Peter Thiel yeah of course it's famous for backing facebook and pollen. Tear the surveillance company and I mean I was as I was looking into this company. I just was Amazed by how quickly it grew. You know the two the two founders met in two thousand sixteen and they only really got a product up and running in two thousand eighteen And so over the course of a year they have just spread like wildfire through law enforcement. As you did your research. What did you think when you you when you first not only figured out what clear view is doing but also who was buying the product who had access to this database of three billion photos? Well well as you mentioned it was hard to do my research on the company. Initially when I first was tipped awesome company by a couple of Foia Research or who thought turn up in public records records request. When I went to the company's website it was closed to the public? It was only access- accessible by law enforcement had an address that was just a couple of blocks away from the New York Times office and when I walked over there I discovered that the building didn't exist when I checked Lincoln and they had a fake employee later turned out to be A fake name. That was being used by one of the founders and they wouldn't return any of my calls or email and so I ended up going instead to the users of the tool so I started started reaching out to police departments that I had determined. We're using it. And in a couple of cases I was able to talk to the detectives used APP and the Police Officers Ed. It was incredible that had helped them solve dozens of cases deaden cases that they had abandoned they went back and ran the suspects photos through the APP. And we're able able to identify them and they just said it. You know worked so much better than the government provided databases they have been using before. That only have mugshots and driver's license photo auto and I saw that for myself when the company eventually started talking to me I didn't interview with their founder and he ran the APP on me and it pulled up photos of me. The I didn't know where online voters view that you've never seen before. So does I'd never seen before. And then I covered my face. I covered my mouth and my nose with my hand. Then he took another photo and it still pulled up seven photos of me including one from ten years earlier and I was just shocked at how well the face recognition algorithm work. You mentioned police forces in the United States are using this and also say that some Canadian police forces are using this. Who who's using it here in Canada I at condition of the interview Officer through using candidates. I cannot say where they are who they are. But it is being used to solve many cases murder cases Identity Fraud Cases Child exploitation cases. I mean it's just any any case where you have a face of somebody and you don't know who that is. You can run it to the APP. And according to the Company at works up to seventy or seventy five percent of the time three out of four searches. It's going to find a match. What concerns you? The most about how this technology allergy could be used in a future and who might use this technology so I have a lot of concerns. I mean I think that face recognition to solve crimes is a great tool and I definitely want want police to be able to solve these crimes. One thing that worried me was it was kind of a little known company Most of the departments had done no vetting them and they're sending ending sensitive information. You know Police suspects victims to the company servers and to the company has this fast database of everyone that the Police Department apartment is interested in and in my case they actually abuse that power. They while they weren't talking to me. It turned out that anytime I talked to a police officer I would ask them to run my photo to see what the results were and the police officers with. Ben Get a call from the company saying are you talking to the media so they were actually tracking acking. Who was talking to me while they weren't talking to me So I found that a bit disturbed me necessarily have power. They could certainly abuse in terms of manipulating results. oops or kind of knowing who's in trouble and then as I was talking to In investor behind the company to officers they all predicted that this is an APP that will be in public hands Either clear clear views APP or another companies copycat version of it and that will all have this power within the next five years and early investor investor college. An early investor told you that there's never going to be privacy. Insure this might lead to some sort of dystopia future. But you can't ban it right. That's that's a terrifying to other people I would think it was. It was a quote where my jaw dropped as he was saying it But if that were truly the reality you would end you know public anonymity if you're in a restaurant having a sensitive conversation about family secrets are work secrets. A stranger next to you could snap your photo and know who you are and understand that conversation in context and I mean that's that's that's I don't know that's terrifying to me because I'm a reporter and I'm always afraid of getting scooped but you can imagine you know stockers using this tool I just real real really militias use cases. I mean it would be nice to go to a cocktail party and never have to worry about remembering anyone's name but I think that the the harms they outweigh the benefits. Kashmir hill is a technology reporter for the New York Times. You heard Kashmir say that she interviewed Canadian police officers about this APP on the condition of anonymity we reached out here. The currents to several police forces across the country the Vancouver Police Department says it has never used used that software and has no intention of doing so. The Toronto Police Service says it does use facial recognition but not through clearview AI. The Ontario provincial police told they have used facial recognition technology but they wouldn't specify which products they use and the rcmp told the current that they do not comment on specific investigative is to get tools or techniques. We also reached out to clearview AI..
"fogo island" Discussed on The Current
"Things being equal. Why math is the key to a better world that of all the interviews? We did this week. That's the interview view that people kept coming up to me and talking about because they couldn't quite believe that what John was saying was true but it is if I can do math then you probably can too. That's one way a of looking at a common problem in a different light. Here's another literally like taking a baseball bat and hitting a dog with it to get rid of its fleas. That's how bad the treatment we are. Currently using to treat. Cancer is opera. Raza is non college EST and a professor of Medicine at Columbia University. She's the author of a new book. It's called the first cell and the human costs pursuing cancer. To the last what is really we most ghostly and unbelievable to me is that I landed in America in one thousand nine hundred. Seventy seven started treating a bone marrow. Cancer Sir Acute myeloid leukemia. We were using to drugs popularly known as seven and three today in twenty twenty. I'm using the exact same to drugs with they. Exact same dreadful results. Israel has watched thousands of people including in her own husband go through cancer treatment and she thinks that we are dealing with this disease completely in the wrong way we have seen a decline in mortality from cancer one percent a year which is nothing to write home about but it still is better than nothing because in the last three decades that means we have dropped the cancer mortality he by twenty six percent. But it's not because we are using or have developed a grand new therapies. Most of it is still being treated with chemotherapy. Radiation Association therapy and surgery. What I call the slash poison and burn approach? Are we going to continue on the spot of slash poison burn and Keep Pumping Ping our chests and giving ourselves gold medals course. Nobody's trying to denigrate. What has been done until now but how can we do better? The only thing that seems to work is identifying cancer early. I'm saying why aren't we using the latest technology to try and and identify cancer at its inception has been thinking about this problem for years but it really hit home in a new way when her daughter's best friend Andrew Andrew died of cancer at the age of twenty two when Andrew Woke up from anesthesia and turn to his mother and said. Don't worry about it. Just call. Ezra she's on the cutting edge is gonNA find a cure. In that moment. I realized how badly we have failed. Andrews of this world we have no right to go around prancing and posturing about all the wonderful things. We're doing for cancers as long as there's even one Andrew Andrew dying this miserable death every oncologist new from zero that this poor boy's chances of survival are zero point zero zero and then in the midst of all this Matt you see the expression of human ability you experienced against Greece in the presence of someone like Andrew they brought to him a form to sign that is called the do not resuscitate form which means that if he stops stops breathing they will not do anything about it or does he want them to in to be an he immediately told them to go away. It's not going to sign it. But that evening reasoning. His father came to the hospital to relieve the mother and sister who had been there all day Andrew. As soon as his father was alone with him uncalled. The people back signed the form saying I could not do it in front of my mother. She wouldn't be able to take it. This is a moment of grace that humbles you like nothing else can. What did your daughter want from you? Not as a mom but as a doctor doctor and a cancer expert when it came to the situation that her best friend found himself my daughter Andrew insurers out of their friends they were also wants so confused. Andrew's mother and grandmother have survived cancer. How is he dying at? Twenty two ensures outpointed Lee told me once in the middle of the night when she called almost hysterical. She said mom. I heard all my life that you and dad help cancer patients. But you're not helping Andrew why. That's a sobering moment for not just a doctor but put for a mother. I decided I have to really know. Double my efforts back in one thousand nine hundred eighty four. I turned my attention to trying to find cases at the pre-leukemic state and try to prevent went the appearance of this end stage terminal monstrosity called acute myeloid leukemia by intercepting it early. So this is not. It's something that I just decided to say. After I experienced the ghastly scenes with Andrew. This is something I have been saying saying repeatedly since nineteen eighty four and trying to do it not just saying it. I started banking cells from my patient. Today I have to shoot repository with sixty thousand samples in it and this to shoot. A positron has yielded a huge number of insights nights. What has become very clear? Is that going after one. Gene studying one part where to part ways in a few patients this reductionist suction EST approach is not working. What we need is a more pluralistic approach by which I mean? Try to use the latest technologies analogies ways of studying the proteins and the genome of the cell and then all the imaging and scanning devices we have redirecting directing our funds and our resources in such a way that it brings the competition that was seen during the landing landing of Man on the moon between America and Russia and the cooperation that was seen between scientists around the world doing the Human Genome Project. Rajin is you say. We're in some ways looking at the last cells if you want to get to the first cancer cell how how do you get that. What are the technologies that might offer some promise that you say are we're already almost on our doorstep? The fact is that it's very clear that treatment alone is not going to be sufficient to address the cancer problem. We we need to develop techniques just like vaccines just like we have Prevention for infectious disease. We will need to find preventive measures. How do we do wit? Well this is where I am asking for. Redirection of funds being wasted in doing Useless clinical trials or trials that are yielding a five percent success rate to trying to develop for example ways of finding ending the presence of cancer. In any secretion through a liquid biopsy blood sweat saliva tears a urine you know that to Sheba Just announced last month that from one drop of blood with ninety nine percent confidence now detect the presence of thirteen different common types of cancers just based on detection of micro arayni signatures. They have identified. When can you start that testing? How early life this desk can start from birth to death? We should be using these kinds of sophisticated technologies to monitor the human body continuously from on but to death. And you don't worry. Don't worry about the cost or the concerns that people raise around issues of false positives and then that could create more strain Not just on on the healthcare her system but on the the the mental health of those patients who are being tested. Of course I worry voted and of course. They'll be a lot of over diagnosis and over treatment. Isn't there now will end. Yes finding that you have Early cancer present in your body can be very scary emotionally but then if we have a solution pushes for treatment of better leak answer then it won't remain that scary so I think all this will go evolve simultaneously. That is once once we find that this is actually a potentially lethal threat to the body only then. Are we going to direct some kind of treatment the many any treatments that are failing today maybe because they are being used. The disease is far too advanced. Where do you find hope in the work that you do well? I'm very optimistic. And in fact this is northern gloom and doom book. I'm hundred percent shoe that we will in the very near future richer. Have the technology at least to find a lear footprints of cancers and that along with that Revolution Lucien will come better treatment options. So I'm very optimistic. Rosza is non college. She's the author of the first cell and the human costs of pursuing cancer.
"fogo island" Discussed on The Current
"I'm Matt Galloway. And and this is the current weekly I have a confession to make For a bunch of reasons and this is not something that I am at all proud of. There is something that I'm a little bit afraid of something that I have in past and occasionally still generally avoid and so today. I'm going to start the PODCAST by confronting in my fear if you divide six by a half right. A lot of people don't understand why you flip the fraction over and multiply and yes. I Matt Galloway and going to do some math. We'll take the number six and divided by a half fraction. Most people think that means give me half the chocolate bar. It doesn't give me half the chocolate if she had six pieces of chocolate. Let's say this is John Martin. He's a Canadian mathematician side note. He's also a playwright. And if you had six I hope you can see everyone who get you could divided among three people because you've got two pieces to pieces. I hope that's okay. I know I know you're phobic man. Oh no no no. This is fun okay. Now what if it was six. Divide by one. That's a kind of strange thing to do. But you're dividing it into pieces of size one like so you'd have six six pieces you could give away so if it's six divide by a half you could actually break every piece into two. I hope so if you did that for all six pieces can you imagine how many pieces you'd have you'd have twelfth pieces brilliant so well no day. I'll be called brilliant and mathematics written down. John Martin is the founder of jump. Math it stands for junior undiscovered math prodigies proud. You feel if you're in a class of kids and his whole idea and he's like an evangelist. When it comes to? This is that anyone can become good at math. Oh my God you jumped right to the answer. I was just expecting three cut even me. I mean I've seen I've seen students who struggle succeed over and over. So what am I. First students was re remedial great six student whose mom was told he could never learn math and he. He was afraid of the subjects years behind Last year we went out to celebrate the fact that he's now fully tenured math professor. What yeah so? I've seen radical changes in the brain and people who learned mouth and and actually struggled myself and who's seen those changes in myself. John Just wrote a book. It's called all things being equal. Why math is the key he to a better world and he says that if we all understood numbers better we could actually solve a lot of social and political problems? Why is it that so so many of us think we're bad at math? We have this idea. It's difficult I couldn't do it and when you are faced if your parents with your child's homework throw your hands up often often in the air because you don't know what they're doing and you assume that that you couldn't wrap your head around. So why is that the case. I think there's a couple of reasons. One is mouth is more like the latter than other the subjects that you know if you miss something. That's very hard to go on. So you know for example if you want kids become problem solvers which we do and we do a jump. You might think we'll start with the complex multi step problems but that's not very efficient way to learn it's better to start with more gradually with more scaffold problems and where you can develop the basic skills and concepts concepts and work your way up. What happens if you miss one of those steps on the ladder if you're in Seattle and you point to grade three as a key step in in in that math lab that you need to be on and if you missed that step things happen so what happens if you missed the step? Well a couple of things you start to miss some of the foundational concepts you simply can't think or solve problems. You can't see the deep structural problems. You can't developmental representations if you've missed foundational concepts but the other thing that I think is really overlooked. There's research that suggests as early as grade. One kids know where they are in the hierarchy. They know if they're in the inferior group call human status seeking primates. If we're good at one the thing it's knowing where we are in a pecking order and there's research suggests as early as grade one no matter how good a teacher as a child knows that they have different expectations for them and so if not everyone could learn bath. You might think well those kids are going to have to adapt to being in the inferior group. But if as a research suggests everyone could learn math than we couldn't have devised devised a better way of shutting down the brain because once you decide you're in the inferior group you stop engaging working you start remembering things. Eventually you develop anxieties by grade three three or grade four and it makes it very hard for your brain to work. Tell me jumped math. You mentioned the airplay right. You did a little bit of tutoring struggled With with your understanding being of how good you could be in math until the age of thirty. What is trump math? I eventually went back to school and got a doctorate in mouth and when I was finishing I thought I should give something back to to my local community. So I started tutoring club in my apartment and I we were helping very challenged kids. I had a girl arrived. The first day who literally couldn't count by twos was working in a better grade level in grades. Six and three years later. She went into academic grade nine math and then skier so I began to think that that math I was this tool for equity for closing the gap between students and almost rewiring the brain and then teachers eventually invited us to come into the classroom and if teachers are allowed to use evidence based methods of instruction they can close the gap very quickly and then take advantage of that excitement. That comes with the group said this a couple of times evidence based methods of Instruction Org. What are those evidence based methods? And how are they different. Perhaps than what's being taught in the classroom now or how it's being well there's evidence for instance that suggests. Ah Kids can easily get overwhelmed by too much information whether it's in words or pictures sometimes if your pictures are too complex and they don't highlight what you want the kids needs to see they can be very distracting and kids. Don't see but we often pick resources that are very cluttered or full of cartoons or complex diagrams. So that's one example example and other is the research suggests that we learn best through efficient practice. We can't become experts without practice but the practice has to be efficient. So what does that mean. Well for example. If you WANNA learn chess you might think well just play chess over and over again. Because that's the goal. That's what I WANNA get to but it turns out that's not a great way to learn. It's better to start with many games with a few pieces that have been well designed to draw your attention say to a pattern or the weakness of position and if kids are directed and play those games. It's not like learning in a roadway. They're they're struggling solving problems. But they're within the zone that they can handle work efficiently so they're they become much more efficient thinkers and that's the way they become great problems over. It's not by playing the full game. That title of your book is why math is the key to a better world. Wh what is what is that better Eh. That can come out of people knowing more and understanding more of a mathematics. Well IT'S A. It's a complicated question but one thing is You know when you learn math you learn all kinds of things that transfer to every of your life. So you learn to think logically to create arguments to look for hidden presuppositions to see patterns Saturns make you know make inferences but you also learn about risk and probability you so we had financial crisis because people didn't understand what would happen if their mortgage rates went up slightly and we have environmental crisis because people can't add up the consequences of their actions because we're so frayed of mouth or numbers so that's one area where we really suffer as a society. Is You know people think it's it's it's not that important if they're numerous or not It's not just about handling numbers it's about being able to think deeply and and having the confidence in yourself to think deeply even example of politician who was talking about The jobless rate in in the United States walk us through that and how head we understood the numbers better. We would've and people would have been able to make better choices. Yeah now I can't remember these numbers but he This politician claimed it was something. Like ninety five million people were looking for work and the population of the. US is around three hundred million a little more than that so that would be about third of the US population and if you look at the working population it would be about a half. So there'd be about maybe two hundred million people of working age and close close to one hundred million. The politician claiming are looking for work. That's about a fifty percent unemployment and I you know when I saw those numbers. I thought that can't possibly ostby bright because I could do an estimate but very few media. Let's call it. The politician on that plane just passed by. And that's the tragedy I think within a few the week's most adults could develop the skills they need to be able to think their way through some of those arguments. You say a couple of things about politics and this one is that if people want to run for office office they should have knowledge of math. Yeah I mean we'd have a much healthier society. If people could didn't immediately sees on the first explanation of an event if they were trained in probability they'd learned to consider all the possibilities if they had a basic sense of numbers they could recognize mistakes. Like the one. I talked to and more deeply deeply. If people were confident in their problem solving abilities they would actually think deeply about the problems before they arrived an opinion. Even you also say that math is is the one area of discourse where it's impossible to create fake news is that just because as they say the numbers don't lie yeah because everything. Math can be reduced to principals everyone. Everyone can agree on. I mean in very high levels of math. Sometimes there's more debate but in the kind of math we would use an ordinary life. People could agree very quickly and we'd have much healthier political debates. You believe that I mean giving given how nasty the political that tone of the debate is right now that you think that there would be a healthier debate. If people people were able to understand the numbers better yes because I think that they would be much more dispassionate. If they learned to to create arguments in mouth they would realized have to think through every possibility before they seize on one part of that. Better World that you're also hinting at his comes through the idea of wonder. Yeah and what kids have and we don't have anymore. What is that sense of wondering why is it so powerful? When I think of the losses we face as a society by by not educating kids according to their full potential we all know the economic losses and even maybe the risk to our political systems? But I think the deepest loss comes uh-huh because we don't really keep alive the sense of wondering curiosity that kids are born with a once. I taught behavioral Class A very violent students and I taught them how to read binary codes and they went nuts they thought their little codebreakers and then at the end I didn't magic trick is connected to the code and they all wanted to come up and do it and on the third lesson. I like that these kids were thought to be. teachable cheered when we came in Jerry when you walk into the classroom. They cheered because they were so excited to be solving problems to be meeting challenges changes in front of their peers. What does that tell you? It breaks my heart. Because I've been seeing this kind of thing for twenty years it tells me there's just this inestimable potential henshaw children not only for learning but for sense of wondering curiosity and we lose that sense of efficacy and curiosity through failure we think kids would be stunted if they couldn't see any beauty amount or a star but the vast majority of people graduate from high school not being able to see any beauty in the invisible structure picture of the world in the incredibly elegant and beautiful world that you can only see through mathematics. John Martin is the founder of jumped. Math it is a charitable organization promoting outing numeracy. And he's the author of a new book called all.
"fogo island" Discussed on The Current
"A CBC podcast. Hi Matt Galloway. This is a podcast from the January. Twentieth Edition of the current snow came down smack into the back of our house and the House next door. It went right through the window. the House next door tore the window and the window frame out dumped a ton of snow but I mean thank God. Nobody was killed. But I've never seen it lived here for thirty five years. I've never seen anything remotely like this now. Safe to say that Chris Brooks of Saint. John's isn't the only person who's never seen anything like this. Nobody has much of Newfoundland hit by a record amount of snow more than eighty centimeters more came last night. Just what they needed. The federal government has mobilized as the military. The BIG DIG has begun. Gus Penton is on Fogo. Island off the northeast coast of Newfoundland. Gus Good Morning Mickey callaway current. What does it look like? They're how much snow do you have around you. We have man it's still common It's it's fast and furious. I it it it's like we say it don't shop. What is that? What's the Big Lake? I mean the roads passable. Can you get out or what is it like. Oh Yeah we're pretty good here now but why hasn't hindered storm like that. It was a the Do we knew flanders not afraid of winter storm. But what happened in this one was was that the conditions were right. You had the wind. The snow's coming fast and furious and you had the amount but And it was is not the storm is actually the dangers of the storm. Storm You If your literacy and stuff right like the heating and then people are using Generators you got Carbon monoxide and stuff and and far-right. Alright and there's a big team you have to have floodlights big glossy. You can't see when Dirk and visibility was hand before you couldn't see. AM We've seen some of the photos of what it was like the morning after. What did you wake up to? Oh man it was a it was the snow warheads just generally just the chimney just just the chimney and you know here's a goal the all the all used to say was that They put a lawyer. Why not did have a goal to talk global warming which is right but years ago the editor they put her on from host hosts? And you had stabilised where they kept their livestock and stuff and in in order to get to them they put a line on. It followed her on because it was that bad and visibility hadn't known atrocity in order so they follow the line tutor and the hoses. I'm just getting back to the houses. was that bad now. That's a goal. You're talking about one hundred year. You see a storm like this and people. I mean as you mentioned people are up against it and there are serious conditions but people also ended up banding together. How did you see Neighbors and friends and people on in the community come together to help each other out matt. It's good and that's what we gotta do the world by an offer state now. You have Australia earn. You have two storms here. You had two wars in the Middle East. If we don't get control of the young people do not. You've got a good look to radio and your current you've got dumped eight people on stuff and keep the Michigan and keep the conversation going Younger people are more relaxed during the technology around her Only page which is raise. The technology is excellent but you have to teach him that this things can happen. Modern nature is powerful and Demoines we gotta run the world. The governments are good. But you gotTa have Britain in government you we were just talking. Buddha's there Wa wa you noticed big to dictate to us in Canada. WHO's a lot of business during which doing okay? And they should dismiss that case we've along with the truth about it in his mind and when we go on to four G. because we're losing business stuff and states dictating take Canada. He's a bully. He's not there shoveling your third one that has to do the shoveling. Do you ever seen anything like this while our town. You no no what happened before I was years ago. not this storm no subsided a bit now and like I say we're not afraid of winter we lure resenting acquire. We'll go through in her in her storm. It was the visibility and the conditions in this one in an emergency case. You've got people on dialysis medical. St John's is wicked like India. There's don't and the space is where to put it in that. But you've got Dialysis I had a sister on dialysis for years and stuff went back and forth Saint John's but it's emergency in case as a fire like on perdue would my sources heat and forget up Jimmy fire with decrease oil which would like Tara when a kitchen. I mean you won't have to clear so that makes John as you make your stressful Ed. It's still snowing. And they're still showing the day now but the top it all off on no shelter and now we got a bit hungry so came in and you know the pure beans and wieners are excellent so often them up and no wieners. It all that all that work and no wieners. In the ten no winners at attain a man was disappointed and So anyway I hate them. Ah Give me some more energy but don't stop anyway discipline. I'm saying not to. You got to have the supplies and we use Jenner but our heisel was rauner hydro here and Heisel Zinfandel dated the lines and I gotta make proposition to you now the updated and share. Because we got a five starring. You got to come home visit US I will. I love the Fogo Island beautiful place and you got your shoveling ahead of. You'll need your energy. I'll let you get back to To Dig yourself out Gus. It's good to talk to you. Not Listen Annemarie tramonte doing. She's great she's great and she's probably happening that she's not buried in snow. Although we have a little bit here in Toronto as well Gus thank you make nick. You're doing good work. I appreciate it. Gust Penton is a resident of Fogo island beautiful place in Newfoundland into as you heard. The snow continues. Their Saint John's took a wallop from. That's no there has been a state of emergency in that city. Since Friday the schools are closed the stores are closed. Businesses are closed. Roads are still impassable. The plows have been out since Saturday. Hey Brian Murphy. Co owner of Uber Murphy Limited Construction and Snow Plowing company popular man. I would think Brian Murphy. He's in Mount Pearl Newfoundland just a little bit west of Saint John's Brian. Good morning to you good morning. What's it like there now? it's overcast It was marred last night so it would have been the last night Quite slippery when it got cold again. Tell me about the cleanup. What time did you hit the streets? This morning Three Am Akra went out. And and what were you up against. We've seen some of the images of the snow but just describe what it looks like. When you when you went out with the plow it was just huge drifts everywhere around the city and the towns are are keeping headed they got all strabane drags open and cuts matrix on the side streets There's just an awful lot of ellen is going to be time consuming to push back. You see those side streets again. We've seen these pictures through. The streets are narrow. The snow is so high. Where does this go? Where can you move the two well? Basically Tro to one side. And just get a path that would have middle and eventually get around to trump and some of it and getting blowers in blown back Only small area you've got to deal with and just got to Get a path through I. It make sure everything's safe that you can get your mercy. I see Cruz whatnot than after the is going to be a time consuming venture I would think. And where's all the snow going. I know that Some of the the the government has said that you can put some of the snow into the harbor. Now Yeah Take a permission off after federal government to use however once again. You ever seen anything like this before we've seen Lurch Snowfall I've never seen the wind as bad as what it was. If you have to get out of the machine is all the snow actually hurt your face What is what is? Hr was going at her and it actually compact from the wind the snow when when you're pushing it breaks up the block as opposed to being fluffy was I. And that's what that's what created this huge drifts. Yeah Yeh you gotTa Win was Times before we went out of the deer fraud tiniest Malkin on the machine and really it was zero visibly. What about working Trying to plow the streets. What about your place Were you Snowed in like everybody else yes I was fortunate enough to be able to take home with me and I do private personalized Not doing much street work visa. So how did you get out of your place. I had a front unloader home man to death it was. It took a couple of choices there to get out but I I managed to get down a big hill just quite a bit of snow around. I don't five six eight hundred challenge customers saying that people are afraid of winter but this is something else. How Do Ooh if you talk to people? What are people's moods like are they? Do they feel beaten down by this or resilient and willing to kind of dig themselves out and on you go. Oh No not at all. I mean everybody Pretty Pepi. I see everybody under the getting together and show me relatives. I what I see so you now everybody can allow them pretty well and the army's On its way do you think that Having the military there will help of course There's a a lot of seniors in in the older parts. Count about nothing and Ami would be quite useful to help lead appreciate it. You've been up since is three. How long of a day will you have in front you around three deceiving we'll give it up and Out In three and tomorrow morning we have a lot of work ahead ahead of you. Good luck all right. Thank you very much thanks. Brian Murphy Co owner of Hubert Murphy Limited. It's a construction and snow plowing company. He's in Mount Pearl Newfoundland just a little bit west of Saint. John's how do you take down criminal network hidden in the shadows. I tell them that. I know that they're the ones who are running the the largest child abuse website on the dark net the journalists working to expose the darkest corners of the Internet. That's your playroom for that's your baby's close. That's my.
"fogo island" Discussed on KFI AM 640
"From land if you ever want to take a fabulous trip in your life go to Fogo island is a little island on the northern coast of and stay at the Fogo island inn I and I met with a writer in New from land who writes a lot of New Zealand history and when I told him this funny thing that my grandmother's only four nine and I'm such a giant he's like oh well she had the gene for height but it was likely suppressed because of the famine but they had to that the poverty the starvation if they had year after year now interesting enough I was reading this research today out how you know we have such high rates of obesity right now such high rates of diabetes which the hallmark is insulin resistance right your your pancreas cannot make enough insulin to deal with all the glucose and you can blame the diet right the modern American diet which is part of the equation we're literally eating too much sugar and starch you should know that all grains turn into glucose in your body so you might as well be eating a sugar cookie when you're eating a piece of bread right and then they make us more addicted to it because they're like if you're building a fire think of the carbohydrate as the kindling on the fire and you're the paper and you're just burning paper and paper and paper and keeps burning out you keep having to add more right but there's another piece and it's our biology there's new research that says if your ancestors were starving the opposite had to happen right they had to try to keep fat on keep glucose in the system and this is why we have inherited some glucose resistance coast intolerance remember the primary causes of death during most of human history we're not old age they were infection and famine and so there were these evolutionary pressures that selected for us to have in our lifetime jeans dedicated to inflammatory responses and we're always trying to reduce inflammation right it goes on there's also research to connect food with depression so what kinds of food it is what you keep hearing the Mediterranean diet but when I say the Mediterranean diet I don't mean loads and loads of crusty bread and rice I mean olives olive oil fish from the Mediterranean Sea not not oil and lots and lots and lots of leafy green vegetables imagine you are roaming the Savannah and you were trying to eat as one of your ancestors you grabbed every leaf that didn't kill you because you do which ones were poison we lost a lot of our natural intelligence now and we ate everything we ate roots and nuts and fruits and berries and leaves and we caught the odd animal because we are carnivores as well this is the diet we need we need to get off our addiction to salt sugar and fat because our bodies are not wired to be able to tolerate it you know it used to be said I teach health psychology cal state Channel Islands the number one health behavior negative health behavior that if you change it would save the most lives in America you know what the health behavior is fronts if you had to guess I have no idea quitting smoking in vaping all forms of tobacco and marijuana if you cut those out we would save like something like four million lives every year that's an exam question kids I should actually have that one memorized the exact number okay so now the city is catching up as the biggest negative behavior and I do it seventy percent of Americans are overweight thirty five percent are obese and we suffer from insulin resistance we this obesity is creating heart disease diabetes and cancer is cancers favorite food so I know we're heading into the holidays Miley thanksgiving dinner is my favorite meal because I've been on a catatonic diet for about four years put on it by my cardiologists thank you very much and so as long as I don't eat the mashed potatoes or the stuffing everything else is for me I love Turkey I love salad I love green beans I eat high fat diets so I'm not afraid of fat bring it on I just have low carbohydrate in my diet so forgo the stuffing tomorrow for me for go the cranberry sauce that's loaded with sugar forgo the staffing and have extra sides of broccoli of Brussels sprouts of salad of lots of Turkey and yeah I have that gravy have some fat it's good for you fat is good for you and stay away from the bread do it for me and if.
"fogo island" Discussed on Ideas
"You've been listening to how to save an island on ideas. Go to our website CBC dot CA, slash ideas for links to films from the Fogo process challenge for chain series. That was produced fifty years ago by the national film board of Canada. You'll also find links to other relevant websites like the Fogo island, cooperative society and memorial university of new land. You can livestream all of our episodes on the radio player, Canada app, our associate producer is Liz notch. Technical production gave field the executive producer of ideas. Greg, Kelly. I'm Paul Kennedy. Love CBC podcasts. Help us make them better. Take our CBC podcast listener survey. Now at CBC dot CA slash podcasts. The quick survey will help us improve your favorite CBC podcasts, CBC dot CA, slash podcasts.
"fogo island" Discussed on Ideas
"People. Originally come through the expo experience and this going to be quite a diversion from what you've been involved with. And he was Bruce hour, long film. That was the original concept. When he got there. He had the experience and stature to be able to change things with some other younger people would have got away with in the systems. We decided that this hour on film weepy good for the rest of Canada to see but would not do anything for local people. So he got into got involved in what now is the full films. So there was a sort of prior experience within the board itself on some of this stuff. A heavy really, Don really insisted on the importance of the role of the field worker. He having to feel worker are an appeal were her who's who he could be sublimated if you wish to what had to be the objectives. This field workers weren't trained sociologists or anything like that. They were local community people in many ways weren't they. It was born on changing, worked, worked on. It was a work with the banks and the once age. But anyway was the bookkeeper was the local fish company has owned mink. Fire was great dot her. So he and he related very well to local people. So Fred was one of us the blending together on the ground of the fieldworker who really knew the community. I mean, he was for us in extension service to feed workers were the kingpins in the listening process, listening to the community, listening to the voices of the people, and really understanding it and common VO as heavy just pointed out immediately, you know, clicked with Fred because conlow was that type of person he could more or less back away and let Fred take his turn and Fred exactly the same. They work so well together. And that's why snowed. No is said that the key to the process, the key to the Fogo process is a well organized sensitive community feel worker in, oh, that's the key to it right there. I always understood that it was during the editing period that the shape of it became what it was even when they went to Montreal. I, they thought of it as an hour, long documentary. But in the editing rooms, it became what it is and they couldn't string together. That's at too much footage. And instead of being horizontal became a vertical editing process. Donald Snowden drew donelson. He was Hugh is a beautiful man who made his name way up north, and he was one of the people who decided to the one thing they could do that was really useful for the people in the north was to teach them how to paint become pages, and there was an enormous success in going on today that's been going on for whatever it is. Forty years people all over wanna buy the work. He then finished that and he was thinking something else do. And he got here to teach people how to express themselves. Talk out to argue that case and some and Donald Soudan started go walking wondering around Newfoundland. That's the rural area and began to to teach people out to be what they were out. As I say, express themselves argue that case criticize p. Who are misusing in one way or another. And that's when the whole event in Fogo began. This is in the mid sixties and there'd be nothing there before people simply talk to each other in the houses. That was there was nothing else in Fogo and join this time. I went to every now and then with fascinating, I learned about for land got an idea of what people did their, how different steam them and the townies. In Saint John's and filling. So I became more confident I understood new from and could describe it in the book that I was writing, which eventually came out in sixty eight. This is what was beginning to happen in Fogo on the two ways. One, the good guys come and stir up people and so you can do it. You can talk, you can argue, but don't overdo it. Don't don't be stupid and take on the government or anything like that. And the second one was gone. Rich was limited to what he was doing that was with them, but he had good. Vega ties all kinds of people. And this is particularly the national film board and they made a huge contribution to what was happening in Fogo by sending up number very able filmmakers. Colin low is the biggest name of all. He had a huge success. John expo sixty seven year and was highly regarded. I absolutely I, and he was well known outside of Newfoundland. And candor. But these people that team when around Phil and interviewing people, teaching people how I gained talk how to make their arguments and all the rest of it, and to argue with each other and learn how you can do that until and these people made homeless series of films waking up people in effect. Fogel met other criteria for us as well. We wanted to involve ourselves with a community in trouble and one whose problems are typical of other places. So the results of our project could be applied.
"fogo island" Discussed on Ideas
"All. In between all the hard work towards the culture of the dimension folk. While musicians dancers singers, reciters, you know, we've Allieu not only economic forces into they can pass. We've the cultural aspects of Fogel some could bring in the car in a sudden, some of the dance step on the road or under bridge and all along. As you heard in the music, everybody related to, that's all and the, there's. We can make a sign with anything. We have a disaster on dice froze. We have makeup aside, we come on me hired, you see, listen to tell you, you know, they give the the historic account in Zong as to do it. So they'll be has to read it. Somebody listen to on song and deacon deacon relate to say. On ideas. You're listening to how to save an island, celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the Fogo process, which saved remote Fogo island off the coast of Newfoundland back in nineteen sixty seven when the residents were basically given no option other than resettlement. Eight brothers sisters. And and no one really knew where doing on the go. You had visions in you read that. Maybe you had gone probably Clarita forest down somewhere villa. Damani was very, they were offering and things like that. Jobs. Non existent. You can hear ideas every weeknight at nine. Oh five, nine thirty five in Joe bats arm on Fogo island on CBC radio one. We're also heard throughout North America and Sirius XM and around the world on CBC dot CA. Check out our website CBC dot CA, slash ideas to download and to stream us. Roof times. Tell you to focus on to me is something that people aren't folk one worked a lifetime four, and we still got an air today after fifty years, and I don't think we would have been what we are today when I don't, we find what we want, and we, we still. Now, back with part two of how to save an island and three men who were early participants in the Fogo process, you'll hear them repeatedly mentioned Colin loan who worked for the national film board of Canada and Dunkeld Snowden who worked for the department of extension at memorial university of Newfoundland. Snowden and low were widely considered to be the founding geniuses behind the full. Go process. Hervey best was started off life with the national film board as distribution than ended up with the university in films. George Lee, I was a former socio director of extension service, and basically I spent the first two weeks on the job doing nothing, but watching the Fogel films over and over again and watching the provincial cabinet ministers come in one by one and respond to the various sectors related to their portfolios. But I just stayed there for two weeks and laughed and cried and just said, you know, this is where I want to be. I'm Paul MacLeod I followed Harvey here actually because I had worked with him in how facs and he kept in mind that I was interested in working in film rather than just in the distribution branch. So I arrived around the time that George was just talking about. Slightly after things on Fogo had fairly well wrapped up my first assignments. I think where to go back and show some of the films to people who were in them and on from there. Can you tell me the story of it for from what you know, having been there early on in things out of the house. Originally. So I know that this aspect of it, but also with the film board, I met column when he was on his way you land and he got fogbound ended up in the Halifax, those these histories director for distribution here. So he and I sat in long conversation about while he was up to Newfoundland and we're, this was going. And of course Fogel is one of the ones that we discussed. I was a proponent of resettlement and he and I had a discussion, I recall about that one because if you're from new from land grown up in the ports resettlement, if from the islands and from other remote areas was not a bad idea for those of us who lived lived through it, it may have helped shape things. But I think at the end of the day column sees unfold because the nice geographic entity that was the Representative of the rest of the problems and probably rural Canada generally. I didn't know Fogo before it all other than the name on the map. But I had talked in some rural communities similar to Fogel, but I knew dance note because when Don Snowden was appointed to be the director of the extension service in nineteen sixty four proximity, I was in labrador city vice-principal of labrador city collegiate. And one of the first mandates that he was given by the president of the university was to extend the arm of the university and influence of the university into western labrador, which was the beginning of the industrial part of labrador for the province of Newfoundland aber door. And he was beginning to experiment with distance education at that time and the technology. The very first technology that we expect. Commented with we actually experimented with it in your city. And technology was called verb visual electrolytic remote board where the professor would write on the board, the blackboard in a classroom at university, and the image would be transmitted to labrador city via telephone linkage. And then by telephone to the students could talk back and forth to the professor. Now, this primitive style of distance education was the beginning of distance education in Canada and Newfoundland with are widely spread geography was desperately in need of this technology. And that's why grew so quickly here at parrot memorial. I come in the said later stage and my understanding of how the Fogo process evolved as a process comes largely from dawn and his telling me his stories and how the thing came together. And I, I'm not quite sure never have been how he and column met and got involved. But I understood that Colin had been signed to look at Newfoundland for the rural side of the things we cannot change. And he got involved with Snowden because he heard about the field workers in the fact that the university was involved all around Snowden introduced him to Fred Earl, and they went to Fogo island on Fogo columnist. Harvey said, found really micro. Qasem of most of the issues of Newfoundland. There are many problems and no guaranteed solutions. But one thing is certain continuing able bodied welfare is not a satisfactory answer. It has become clear wherever it exists that the cost of welfare in terms of human dignity is larger than its cost in dollars. But human costs are especially high in a place like Vogel. For fishermen are traditionally proud and independent people.
"fogo island" Discussed on Ideas
"Day. The island is nine miles wide and sixteen miles long. It has fewer than six thousand people living in ten separate villages. Only recently linked by adequate roads. Social and religious differences. Divide people even within the villages. There is no tradition of local government. The village ins are administered by the merchants and the clergy. Each of four major religions has its own school system. In its problems of isolation. Fogel is a microcosm of all of Newfoundland, and perhaps other encapsulated communities that are symbolic. Ghailan's. All these factors made us feel the need for a new means of communication for interpersonal inter-village and island to mainland dialogue. I got the reason I got was accident, not accident, but casual in Kent. I had started to work on a biography of slow would ju- for the first time I started going to new from that fairly regularly for months to three months over a period of years can do the research. After I realized that are spending all my time in Saint John's. And I knew perfectly whether there was another in Newfoundland, which was of course rural new for that. So that cook me too. Fogo detraction of Fogo is that was probably going to disappear that orange people would leave because it was so poor so backward and so up. There was there was no such things Fogo. There was a place called Fogo in which various people but never had anything to do with each other. Can I read a little bit from from the book that I wrote about smoking, no way in Newfoundland. Should me writing Noah in Newfoundland in the mid sixties with these facts more depressingly apparent than on. Five thousand people lived on this gaunt treeless lump nine miles wide and it doesn't miles long. They're all lived in within this area, but they lived sealed off from one another by religion and race in ten, tiny settlements. A child grew up without visiting a community identical to it that was just five miles away and it's life. It wouldn't have bothered to go to the next door community since the closing of the last commercial fish blunt. Sixty percent of the fishermen had being on welfare. Single future remained for them. Resettlement of the government's direction. Redevelopment is not the only solution proposed for Fogo island. Some say the season is too short for verse still fish plant, and the people must be resettled off the island to better fisheries or even to other livelihoods. But sometimes port people have been resettled too. So call growth centers which have not grown quickly enough. And any resettlement plan must deal with the question of the people's feelings. Some Phobos families have lived on the island four, three hundred years, and to them fishing is not only a livelihood, but a way of life. So when it was happening, did you have any idea about the bigger picture of what they were doing? Oh, no, no. I mean, we just taught to was filmed for for our benefit just, you know, it was. It was other take any films from the focal process was taught to be going to be as important as they were. They turned out to be very important to conditions of folk while at the time and strive to get better with that for a bit. I mean, this was a time when Joey was saying, you're gonna leave the island. And you didn't leave the island? Partly because of the film's we left for two years after we after we got married, I two years and then we decided, Nope, we didn't want to leave. We were coming back. So we came back after two years and state. Still here we're still hair. Yeah. What do you think about the process and the Fogo process? You think it was important? Not just for you guys, all that you left and came back, but in keeping people here in in keeping the island someplace it was inhabited by human beings could could have been a tipping by two catalyst said, encouraged him to stay. It also show a lot, and they said they had a common identity. What are in deep a or Fogo arm who had the same problem, you know everywhere. So so selfish trae, collapsed, merchants, gone bankrupt. Everybody in the same boat really. And one option was resettlements. But then again, we consider island, there's not baby, you know. So in debate will be considered payment Vevey, but we never ever consider us baby island people. And we had a sense of identity because it was an island around the water. So national film board brought food very starkly that that you had the same problems and only way to overcome these problems. And who sat on the was to cooperate with each other. Then you find a means to cooperation when means, of course, was to what's the salt fishery, efficient, inshore fishing collapsed, but people don't wanna fish near the shore, and they're Havers pretty close to your own. However, your own fishing stage. So they reinvented themselves as fishermen. The first time you say disembodied twenty mile thirty mile state overnight fifty or hydraulics voter votes, and so on. So to technology came from within the fishermen themselves and they were deal with up to the task of sailing vast distances using only forty primitive instruments that compass and watch timepiece. So you compass in time fees and facing yourself, you're both bought him back and I don't think we've ever lost a boat full all became in in five. We came in nighttime, became in rough seas. You know, we expanded the fishery. We built the. The shipyard to to build the fleet longliners and able to fish bit water. Amid will be thirty Molly forty miles rent phone calls and had never done that before. So again, challenge dementia towns and because of these fishermen that here, you know, everybody else incidental, but they had to, you had to fishery if there's no fishery to know Wilander it'll have cops. So that was most important. And of course we had to be invented again in ninety two after moratorium. We've been the deep sea fishing, much bigger votes more investment, but we show does. It could be done, you know, and once you once you survive infectious in the back, you know, for survival. Challenge for change is an experiment in the role of communications in social change. As part of this experiment, we filmed local people talking about the problems of changing community and played back these films in that community. We chose Fogel island as the location for this project. For many reasons. The extension service of memorial university in Saint John's Newfoundland is deeply involved with the needs of the Newfoundland people. My name is Phil burns and general manager with the focal island co up. Then here the last ten and a half years. Well, it all happened in a time of the very early sixties into the mid sixties. When our premium today, Joey small decided that he was gonna move people and resettle them from, you know, I selected rural communities to Moore's urban centers, and Fogel was targeted as one of these communities are. There was a number of communities air on the island Levin in particular. But at the same time, there was a Monica stench in service brought some people here to the to start film and the people and start asking questions and they feel about their future because if the merchants were to leave and Joey to resettle, what was to feelings and it community. And so a lot of filming was done by the national film board using Colin low and he win. Around the various communities with the aid of Fred, Earl, and Fogel on prove committee. And the people decided, yes, we want to stay and we want to rebuild our our own island and and that's what they did. They got started with the the meetings and they formed the folk while shipbuilders op. And so here we are today fifty years later through a lot of trials and tribulations, but we weathered the bad times and we've come through some good times and now we're trying to figure it, we're, we're, we're going to see cucumber. For example, in two thousand a year, two thousand are people got involved in see cucumber by accidentally finding this in in our bays. How did you find you had it? I mean, this was a place where cod was fished until fifty years ago. And then as you said, diversified, how did you figure seek Hucum or something you'd probably never even heard of yourself. It was by accident. Our sales manager will tell me the story because I I wasn't around in two thousand when they start cucumber, but he tells me the story about a client of his that was here from China to look at Turbat and Caitlyn, and he took them for a boat ride. And while they were diving for scallops and mussels through a cucumber in the vote, you just pulled up from the ocean floor, threw it in about thought he would start the gentlemen, but he picked it up. Me sit my guy. He says, cucumber, can you get me some more? So kin button is my sales manager. Kim went down and Harrison. A few more picked more few, a few more off the ocean about him back in. They sent some samples to China. So the co op initiated a emerging fishery plan with eight RBIs tres and they were given permits it was an exploratory experimental fishery. And we did that for five or six years. And eventually we went from two hundred thousand. Pounds up to a million pounds selling in China. So our our quotas now gone from eight fishers to fifty one fissures in ten years. It's amazing. It's we can't. We can't supply the market right now. So let them back like full process, which is something thirty, your nucleus, part of it. I mean that film, it's beautiful that movie and it's it can. I can get on the style GIC about it and I wasn't born here or anything, but I look at it. I think what the film captures is pride is a pride in that community that is not plainly not wealthy. This isn't Saint Patrick's cathedral in New York. It's church still here by the way. Is that really all? Yes. The thing about that too is you could hardly find standing room. They're not just our relatives comes to, but you know, when you got married to haul community, they went to the church. Tell everybody and all dominates came. It wasn't just Catholic. No, not at all. That's what one day. You know everybody, no matter what, what is wedding and shirts to marriage harmony and something else that unites people a week and into the funeral home because quite a number of Protestants and I learned say learn to say the rosary after attending to. Because you're going to say it at all. For you. Depart feeling it all last night that the person is resting there, you know. So so you'll have you'll have a ga- gathering if you say no. Oh, you sort of put that that's matching and dispatching you'll, you need is the hatching in between and you got it. All.
"fogo island" Discussed on Ideas
"This is a CBC podcast. Discover what millions around the world already have. Audible has Canada's largest library of audiobooks including exclusive content curated by and four Canadians experienced books in a whole new way were stories are brought to life by powerful performances from renowned actors. And narrators with the free audible app, you can listen anytime anywhere, whether you're at home in the car or out on a jog. The first thirty days of the audible membership or free, including a free book go to WWW dot audible dot CA, slash CBC to learn more. I'm Paul Kennedy. Welcome to ideas about how to save an island. I think small island is indeed reasonable proxy for a small planet, so it's not bad place to learn. And in some ways, I think we have to approach our economic system as one might approach and art project. Not presuming to have all the answers that Zita Cobb, you can Google her. She's the innkeeper of an elegant and expensive resort on full goal island just off the rugged, northeast coast of Newfoundland. You can also go Fogo island when Richard grin and I knew Fogo in its early stage of disaster about the middle sixties. There was a serious possibility that Fogo simply cease everybody. All people living now would leave because it was in hopeless state. Richard Gwynne was in Newfoundland and sometimes on Fogo island fifty years ago when the national film board of Canada together with memorial university saved Fogo island by inventing something called the Fogo process to knee. When the process came together, the Fogo process, it became the pinnacle of listening. So to me. One of the characteristics of the Fogo process is what I would call deep listening. And that's George Lee who was teaching in labrador. When he first heard about the Fogo process. That term he mentioned, deep listening is how Fogo island was saved back in nineteen sixty seven. Full disclosure. I fell head over heels in love with Fogo after my very first visit back in two thousand one at the time. I'd never heard anything about see Cobb or the Fogo process, but I was instantly enchanted by the authenticity of the people I met and the primal beauty of the seacoast that surrounded me. When I got back to the mainland, I did some googling myself as you can to, although you'll find links to what I'm talking about on our website. CBC dot CA, slash ideas. I learned how fifty years ago the national film board of Canada along with field workers from the extension department of memorial university, recorded interviews with just about everybody on the island. They also made some beautiful black and white documentaries about what life was like in outpost communities. There's an addictive -ly innocent film about how Fogo children play. There's another about organizing a cooperative society, and one of my favorites is short, but seductive film called a wedding and departy. To our. Take you. And ROY and Christine Dwyer with the vulnerable young couple volunteered to get married for that famous NFV film on Fogo island back in nineteen sixty seven. Were here until. And the oven. Many things lifetime schoolteacher commercial fisherman sealer writer written four books and now were were having a lovely chess around my kitchen table. I am Christine Dwyer, and our wedding was filmed, but a national film board fifty years ago and we're still together. Which is amazing. Congratulations. How did it happen? Fifty years ago? How did it happen that you guys were the people who are filmed for the national film word? Well, I think part of the reason laws that day were looking for some social events, and we just happened to be getting married at that time and they came to us and ask if they could fill them our wedding. And of course we said, Jess. I history really history. That's a wedding photographer that day you couldn't pay for. I mean that weddings now, everywhere. What did it feel like to be filmed at the time? Owing more concentrated his happening around us. So he sort of black. They died buck that anyway, the cameras and there's enough of would say distraction. But another tension I getting married. Plus we wrote down underway church. We hit a puddle of water. So we head like not to get there. So. That wasn't on the film. The film was on there for that. So we made it anyway. We had to change cars with the car, and then we had to go job bass, Christmas, waiting for Milton job at since she looked like on show up, you know, did you feel nervous? The groom wasn't gonna arrive. Now ahead of me actually road as always late true. We were extensively. Blame it on these old vehicles in the fifties and all. So we, we got in the road was pretty new back then too. I mean, it wasn't that long that will be puddles in all big scoop puddles after a raining rain heavy at night before too. So. What did you feel? What does it feel like now to watch that film. Well, right now we're gotten used to watch, I guess. But for the first few times we watched it was a, you know, we were quite proud to have our wedding film by national film aboard. Must have looked the people in the film. Are people who are your relatives in your friends pick? They were? Yes. My my grandmother cold was in it and my, you know, my mom and a lot of Roy's relatives that were that were there that are long gone and is just so so good to look at the film and see those people and to see the kids that were in the film as well. And they're read, I'll snap yet. Fifty years on as we all are in it was in that film coming out of the church as a liquor, probably about nine years old. I am in one of the films the one call introduction of focal had and I come out of the church Mary Queen of the world church at ROY in Christine's wedding. And I think I'm eight, this is Sita call. I think the definition that people say is that the focal process is a participatory film process that engages with people where they live on the issues of their lives. And I guess that's true. I think Fogel process was about asking really good questions and waiting around long enough for people to think about it and to have an opportunity to answer your lots of answers. I remember as a kid when all of this was happening because there were these strangers strangers around always everybody knows going around asking questions of all kinds of people. And that was really exciting because up until the moment that the strangers came, the conversations that I overheard as a kid or my mom saying to my dad in the night when she thinks that we don't hear through the walls. What's going to happen to us? Where are we going to end up. And then him sane. I don't know. Wow. If they don't know. It's a pretty terrifying thought, and then the strangers came along, and that would have been people like Fred Earl, who unfortunately has gone and Colin Loza federal from the extension service and call them, oh, from the national film board mucking around asking questions to fishing stages and at the Turkmen at the school and everywhere, and it just like it ignited a whole bunch of talking. But talking that had a kind of a core to it, which was well, what do we think about where we are? And that of course takes you to what do we think about where we might get to. And the thing I remember about it in particular was my own father who was a very fiery person. There was something about that process that didn't make him fiery. It made him thoughtful. Maybe it's the fact that somebody comes up to with the camera or microphone. Kind it. It's coming in a way and he instead of ranting and raving what she was very good at. He could see hit changed how he was in thinking about our predicament. Soon as people start to think in a real way about their predicament, their -bility it and see it clearly undo something to alter. It is much abled art does that because our asks those questions that often get overlooked by the rest of us. Fogo island is a fishing community off the northeast coast of Newfoundland, forty miles north of gander, an expensive hour and a half, very ride, connect Fogo with the mainland once a day.
"fogo island" Discussed on Travel with Rick Steves
"And just so our listeners know that's on the rugged pacific coast of vancouver island which is it's high on my list everybody you know we do rugged well to pheno on the west coast and then on the east coast in my province newfoundland labrador if you look up fogo island which is a place that i used to visit growing up and i never ever told anyone to fogo island when they visited newfoundland because it was just so far to get to i would think who would ever go there as tourist it's just so far even though i knew it was beautiful now there's like a sixty million dollar beautiful in that's built there it's just look up fogo island f o g oh it's a tremendous destination and like i say you'll see that canada does rugged and we do it well he tony you were gonna ask about prince edward island or island the only province of ten provinces that we had not visited so i know how are a little island of prince edward island joined confederation but i have never been able to figure out why it is one of the provinces there is only one hundred and forty thousand people in the whole province the whole two percent of our seats in the house of commons and four percent of seats in the senate so they're they're just over represented over represented at that situation with our senate which is becoming more clear to people lately is just this notion that every state or every province should have this what a similar representation regardless of population it might be an interesting question i i'm not sure about the origins but i've never heard it's not like in canada there's anyone who's ever there's no movement to you know reduce the political influence of prince edward island because yes while they are a very small province or smallest province i've never really heard anyone feel like they're over represented you know they're a province and always have been and always will in fact it was in prince edward island where the fathers of confederation sat down and hammered out canada well that's right and then our confederation was eighteen sixty seven but prince edward island did not join for another six years so i think that they just made carved out a tough deal with the other provinces instead if you want us to join we're going to be a separate province and we only have one hundred and forty thousand people my my hat's off to them we can travel there and ask them themselves and i should say if you do travel there we're talking about the atlantic coast now it is a small island it is joined to the mainland so you can drive there no fairy necessary and it's golf for days and beautiful beaches it's very much a great family is the perfect family friendly vacation wonderful people and make nificant seafood oh if you like lobster it's the man to go i'm just my travel dreams are percolating here hey tony.
"fogo island" Discussed on CBC Radio - Spark
"Up and found a spiderweb had been made in the night some people have posted pictures of themselves on social media while watching the rock it's kind of a community that's formed around the boulder i definitely encourage community around watching the rock and i invite people to share images of themselves wherever they may be at work goofing off watching a rock or you know often i'll get pictures of dogs watching rocks and i think for me there's the idea that the rock is a kind of hearth or you know bonfire that we are all kind of remotely gathered around i mean obviously there's this kind of comic or absurd aspect to the idea of live streaming in animate object but do you think this project has things to say about how we think about the pace of change definitely i think we were very caught up in our human reality our sense of time and my hope is that when there are moments of realization around the timescale of the earth that there is a a little opening there to questioning our anthropocentric idea of of time and that there's a potential there to lead us to question other decisions and actions that that we take in everyday life is that why you chose these glacier boulders because they actually do move right they have moved right so there's an amazing book called stone by geoffrey durham cohen where he talks about a stone that actually we can we can understand stone to be liquid if we are to look at it in its own timescale within geologic time so you know stone is always moving and changing it's just a matter of stepping back far enough to see that megan thanks for telling us of your very welcome megan prices visual artists in toronto and the creator of the watching rocks project you'll be happy to know that megan is still in the rock watching business episode four of her project watching rocks fogo island streamed from sunup to sundown just a couple of weeks ago on june nineteenth the project was made while she was in the tectonic shift residency at the museum of the flat earth on fogo island in newfoundland and opera door and it may not be live but it's not too late to watch rocks you can find the link to all the episodes of the watching rocks project at our website cbc dot ca slash spark.
"fogo island" Discussed on Who? Weekly
"Whenever notable landmarks what are some that may be a typical american would know about that are actually our new us love this tourism like bit of oh my god that's a really good and difficult question because when i think of it like the other side of nagara's just go to drake's house or you know we're justin langer grow up or whatever we definitely have the nicer side of an agra follows an yet definitely but i think i think people forget that canada is like a bigger country than the united states you know like so we they think about like toronto and like may be vancouver and by leave guy i mean we've really got a little bit of everything like on the east coast it's really beautiful lakes seaside towns i've never been to main but i imagine that it's like got him main kinda vibe to it as yet bobby you've launched gable's grenoble scotian oic stunning i've actually only been to nova scotia over there and then there's like in newfoundland and which is a bit more north testing my canadian geography right now um there's like fogo island which is it's like superchic like gwyneth paltrow like oh well there and like duped about it or whatever i think like one of the basque restaurants in the world is on fogel island which is in canada so that's very like she she fancy by it you share yang canada's payroll at this point in terms of right work that you're doing young should rally like in touch with them seeking of canada landmarks let's talk about canada's celebrities who i there's a lot of crossover canadian celebrities that is true we have a budget infiltrating america starting from drake all the way down but who are some of the let's say lesser we'll get to drink but let's say who were some of the lesser known canadians that you love that are getting a lot of love me because their hometown heroes but not as much love elsewhere were seen we'll get levels elsewhere maybe so like this is really interesting thing about canada we tend to only lake celebrate our own once they've been accepted united states over lake it's so true though we have like zero star system what so ever and.