1 Episode results for "Florence Prediman"
Thursday 17 June
"You're listening to the monocle. Daily first broadcast on the seventeenth of june twenty twenty one on monocle twenty four. The monocle daily is brought to you in association medallions. Us president joe biden returns to washington. How did his first overseas trip go the. Us gets a new federal holiday this summer while the uk wonders. If it's going to get any. And kenneth calendar founding president off zambia delays at the age of ninety seven i'm andrew mullahs the monocle. Daily in association with elian starts now. Hello and welcome to the monocle. Daily coming to you from our studios here at midori house. In london andrew. Mullah my guests florence and robin lusty will be discussing all the day's big stories and also looking at the long term future of working from home stay tuned to the monocle daily in association with l. liens on monocle twenty four. This is the monocle daily. I'm andrew my guest today. Are florence beadman. Afp's london bureau chief and robin leg the journalist and broadcaster and again day nine of the new look monocle daily and the novelty of guests. Back in the studio has not worn off. Welcome back to you both Familiar voices to a long-term listeners. I do want to ask you both quickly. I'll ask you first florence. What have you been up to since we last saw you here. I know the answer for everybody's is not much if you could elaborate beyond that. That would be terrific. Has been getting depressed at home for months and months i was trapped in this three months down here which was the longest in europe so it was not a good idea to learn that time. And that's it. We will be talking more about working from home on which you have clearly developed some trenchant views. Robin what about you. How many different ways are there of saying not much Doing much you're you're you're the eighteenth and so far where there aren't eighteen different ways of site on a walking in the park of been sitting at home i've been reading. I've been watching. I've been listening. I have a lot of thinking. Fortunately i have a couple of small children. I've been seeing them and they've been keeping me sane or insane but let's move seamlessly along into somebody who has been doing quite a lot this last week or so that easier as president joe biden he has returned to washington dc after his first overseas to a since assuming office in january the three summits he attended the g. Seven in cornwall. Nato in brussels vladimir putin in geneva provided a catch up with america's primary allies with america's least debatable. Adversary biden did not leave behind the trail of dropped jaws arched eyebrows and borrowed browse that he's predescessor caused on such joints. But what if anything was actually accomplished florence. First of all the easy question would you say he cutted a very different dash on the world stage to donald trump. Yes he did but this is not wet. The surprise of what happened actually. It was kind of relaxing g seven summit for example if you remember like this picture. Famous picture of angela merkel leaning for donald trump like very defiant with his arms crossed an all european japanese around. So i mean that was the end of this and Somehow it's it's kind of relaxing whether it achieved much. I mean obviously to chip that america is back that the relationship with the e u Will be different relax. Closer biden also said. He believed in nato in an article five of the treaty. Which means that you defend that has been attacked so all of this was absolutely the country of what trump had been saying and finally the summit with putin. If it didn't achieve much. I mean not achieve much with putin. Putin is not going to the country of what she said before but at least that was not that kind of incredible scene of donald trump Giving right to putin when he said he was not meddling in the american election so definitely whatever even if not much with achieved already. It was a big progress for robin. What did you think was it. Joe biden attempting to assert some sort of reset to normal and communicate the idea that the last four years were a regrettable blip over you get the sense. That biden has ideas of his own about perhaps using the fact of that blip to recalibrate america's relationships. I think it was both of those things. I mean i think the most important message to out of the g seven really was just a huge of relief from everybody that they had a us president who spoke the same language that international diplomats. We're used to. He observed the niceties. He's hugely experienced on the global stage. He knows how to do what needs to be done as for his summit with mr putin even mr putin seemed to say that Mr biden was slightly more serious character to deal with. Mr trump had been which is a nice way of repaying the loyalty thirty go from mr trump but yeah it was a change of tone obviously change of policy also certainly vis-a-vis russia. Less of a change. I think vis-a-vis china big change on climate change so If mr biden can actually translate words into action then yeah. It will have been worthwhile stepping out. Puff florence on the putin summit in particular. Does it strike you that. That was a well. Basically a good idea because putin clearly was alive to the significance of it. Indeed do a big rift noting that you know i get some to myself. Everybody else has together in a group and stand in line but he takes an entire day out of his shell. Jewel and i get an entire day over. Is it still. Is it still warranted. According russia that much significance when it has significant. So whether you you want to Warranted not whether it's putting who is the head of fresh or anyone there is. I mean you have to rush into consideration so definitely. It's not like not the same kind of i would nourishment than Trim gave to Kim jong un for example. I mean russia's not a marginal player and well yes i mean you give importance to russia because it's important and it doesn't mean that you condone the precede or whatever. It's always better to have a dialogue and you know to stay abroad and be only conflictual three. Get a sense from that some Robin biden really wants from america's relationship with russia is it. I mean this was how it seemed to me anyway. That biden seemed to have this desire. That china is going to be actually the thing. While i'm president. The less i have to think about russia the happier. I will be yes but i think he needed to say to the american people that he was alive to the potential threat that russia poses to To the western world in general. I mean it's not only cyber attacks. It's not only interfering electoral systems. It's the assassination of opponents for example on the attempted assassination say and assassination indeed on british soil It's the destabilizing way in which putin tries to further what he sees as russia's interests in israel says he is a significant figure whether we like it or not. I think mr biden has any illusions that he's going to change Mr putin's behavior but is important. I think for him to be seen to be sitting down with mr putin and saying that there are certain things that you are doing that we do not regard as acceptable and we are determined that you will pay a price unless something does change just a final quick on this floor specifically about the press conference that president putin gave yesterday and obviously in that context. He's going to get roughed up a bit in a way that he would not win. Giving a press conference to it exclusively. Russian crowd of journalists. Obviously but not for the first time in such a context. I got the sense that he was rather enjoying himself. That he doesn't actually mind a bit of given take a bit of pushback because it it gives him he seems to call enjoy the argument zika. Gb man you know. He can face an american journalist without any difficulty. And i mean yeah you know the question that are ours like yeah. Are you going to change. Or what are you afraid of asking putting. What are you afraid of honest into each. It was kind of a weird question certainly not journalists and as you say yeah there is a kind of a game and the tough guy and the leader and this is the idea is always trying to project to his own citizen to the word so to trump was that he likes being rude to journalists and so when he gets a chance to be in the same room with a they ask him a question he gives them a rude answer he enjoys it he knows it goes down well with a lot of russian people as well. It's win win spurs. He's concerned okay. Well let's move on somewhat. We will stay in the us Where one of president biden's first acts upon returning will be to sign into law. The first new federal public holiday since president ronald reagan gave everyone martin luther king junior day off in one thousand nine hundred eighty three june nineteenth or juneteenth was the date in eighteen. Sixty five on which enslaved black people in texas were informed that they were free by us. Army general gordon granger effectively therefore ending slavery in the united states will for more on this story on joined now by dave clark who's to congress editor for the washington post. Welcome to the monocle daily. A juneteenth is already a holiday in some shape or foam in some states has been much clamor to make it a national holiday. Wh- is driving. This originally drove eight lasted was last year after the The death of george floyd and minnesota black man murdered by police officer and that got sort of a larger discussion talking about how to recognize you history and us history with racism more and so there are some people who advocated for making june tenth. Juneteenth a national holiday. And that's where that's where it began but it kinda died in the. Us senate has one last year because one senator objected do what he said were cost concerns giving federal employees a day off and this week he kind of he just spacey said he was no longer going to oppose it and that just really cleared the way for going in but the sort of bigger picture is that as the push to have this as a national holiday has been sort of the somewhat reckoning with the country's asked with racism following The death of george floyd within that context you've just outlined it sounds like it would be tailor-made to be yet another cultural flashpoint. How's it been that or is there. Actually bipartisan support for this. Now it's interesting. that's a good point. I mean it seems like something that would fit in that context but it was Overwhelmingly unanimously passed by the senate and only had a believe fourteen no votes in the house. It really did a bipartisan support. May have had some advocates for some black community activists who've pointed out. They worry that this is an easy. Vote for republicans and that this may take momentum away or take urgency away from more substantive issues. They care about voting rights and police reform. But you know this was. This has been a holiday. I believe it's up to forty seven states so it seems a lot of republicans felt like well. It's something that could easily get behind but but there was. I think striking that there wasn't more opposition. We've seen republicans opposed to any push to sort of teach more or highlight more racist past in the us and by in this case they did not pose this bill. I mean it's probably the case that nobody ever lost votes by giving everybody a day off Do we understand how juneteenth will be observed at a federal level. You know beef. it'll be observed. Starting tomorrow the same way that other federal holidays are which is that federal employees. Get the day off. The federal government is mostly closed. You know federal workers who do work at paid overtime and then it's really up to private companies whether or not dow acknowledge the holiday and give their workers the day off but but it also starting tomorrow know most of the us. Federal government like it would be on july for their labor day. We'll be closed clock at the washington. Post thank you for joining us. I want to pose a similar question to our panel. Which is if you were given the power to award a national holiday for some great event in the history of your own land. What would it be. I mean as an australian my own desires on this front of pretty well catered for at least in the state of victoria which gives every body the day before the trojan football league grand final off and melbourne cup day actually to national to state holidays for sporting events robin. What would you pick well taking my cue from juneteenth really I i think i'd go for the second of july. Because it was on the second of july of nineteen twenty eight that the representation of the people brackets equal franchise brackets act was finally given the royal assent and that was the day on which women in the uk were finally given the vote on the same basis as men women over the age of thirty had been allowed to vote since one thousand nine hundred eighteen but it wasn't until nineteen twenty eight that they actually got the vote. Twenty one which is what men had had for some time. So in the spirit of universal franchise santa july. Just two weeks from now. yes please. We've got some more worthy choice than anything. I suggested indeed which have already been adopted by the state of victoria. So i blame them. Not me. florence. Is there any sort of particular under discuss to run direct knowledge french event that you think deserves a national day off. Yes because that would be to national days and the abolition of slavery because it i after the french revolution and sevens for february and then it was reinstated by putting on and then abolished again. So today's for the same even assuming that is some pretty smart thinking right there. Bullets turn our focus back now to this side of the atlantic where we are all either going on a summer holiday or conceivably note the uk government is reportedly considering considering permitting an amount of peregrinations specifically for people who have received two doses of covid nineteen vaccine. They may not have to isolate upon return from one of the country's currently listed as amber the would still have to be tested. Mitigating against this is the unchecked. Rampaging the delta variant of the virus and the fact that previous of generosity of this sort encouraging restaurant dining law some permitting. Christmas had it is fair to say consequences are not going to make presumptions about whether everybody in this room is is sufficiently venerable to have been double jabbed. I have. I'm going to say that out loud florence if you were able to go and holiday in an amber country and come back without isolating. Would you take that chance. Of course i would because what have been doing recently is going to france which is a numbered country for a funeral which is person not a holiday. They're not really nice. And i had to spend more than four hundred pounds in tests and then i had to quarantine. It's a real repower. Puff so definitely. I mean if there is any other version than this one. Yeah i would be take your. I mean when you consider that in other countries that are free. I mean it's something a really doing. Understand i mean how. How did they come with the. Id you to pay more than android bound for for a test. Well robin leaving aside the question of those tests which as florence correctly points out Fantastically expensive you now. Fairly relaxed about the idea of taking a summer holiday somewhere not yet. Oddly i mean i'm slightly surprised at myself because i am an inveterate traveler. I have traveled a huge amount and have missed traveling hugely and i have had both doses of the vaccine and i am extremely encouraged by. The efficacy of the vaccine is no doubt at all that they work on. That is wonderful. However i mean early this year My wife and i agreed that we would not go abroad this year. and we going stick to that what worries me. Frankly is the you know the famed new variants. We don't know what new variants might still look out there and going from a country which we are here which is very well vaccinated two countries which are less well vaccinated just seems to me risk. I'm not yet prepared to to to take. But i have a delayed holiday to italy from last year which we haven't taken this year and we've got the dates for next year. So that's what. I'm looking forward to robin lusting and florence prediman. We will have more from you both in just a moment. You are listening to the monaco. Daily we'll be right. Back is proud to partner. The monaco daily on monocle twenty four for more than one hundred and thirty years 'alliance has expanded its business and stretched its brand new and innovative ways and while the world looks very different today than it did in eighteen. Ninety one truth remains allience is passion for securing people's lives and giving them courage for what's ahead no matter what behind you for what's ahead. Welcome back to the monocle. Daily i'm andrew still with me. Florence peterman and robin listrik. This coming sunday regional elections will be held in thirteen regions of france and we are probably just about close enough nine months. Give or take to the next presidential election. We are entitled to scrutinize the entrails thereof in search of clues as to the future direction of the republic dishearteningly. There are predictions foot that national rally. The party of far-right presidential candidate. Marine le pen may win control of an entire region for the first time. Florence warih's national rally likeliest to actually win and take charge of region. So i mean this. Is the south of france. Pouvons could as your first of all. It's not quite sure they will. They will win the region but definitely it would be changing now in the political landscape. Those election have huge interest at least for journalists and analysts. Maybe not for the people. I mean the abstention could be very high because it's as you say nine months before the presidential election so Whatever happens it's not going to really change the main setup. Which is that in any kids. There is very very few transfer marina pen to to make it and to become a front president. I know it's kind of the real thrill for for journalists and maybe agresson journalists like all women marrying come to power. I mean an election. Everybody's wondering when. Marion come to power in france. The the idea is just with which margin with marlene win this time and it will probably be more and more and she will probably get more and more votes but there is not such fear so far that she would ever be president. I know you cannot send never in politics. Maybe i would be days when she comes to. Powers eissa meer. I possibly we are able to name one or two. Recent electoral outcomes around the world which everybody confidently predicted would never happen in a million years and yet strangely did just to follow that up. The florence national rally will of course now be refining their pitch and just for the national elections and saying this is who we are and this is what we want. What are they actually now selling. I think that there's still the the ghost of marines father still hangs over the party certainly among international observers. Everybody remembers Joan marie lapenne. Who was a a barely reconstructed quasi fascist has. She moved to the long since then. She very cleverly moved to to make the protest. You seem to be like Let's traditional white party like two d. jabil is the party and she she succeeded somehow But when you scratch under the surface. And i mean the surface. Those sophisticated leaders like mine. Pan like her companion with also the those people yes people are good position the twentieth scratching the surface you go to the level under to the kind of and then the way they talk is much more open and you realize again that they are extremists that they still sell this anti-immigration and she raynor's anti lgbt et cetera practices like the guy who may become in in In the the head of this region recently said you would cut immediately any funding to association. supporting edgy bt. End people referring origin. That was his word you know. So that's the kind of politics there are there are doing but of course nationally they will try to To make kind of a package where. It looks more appealing than these robin. Do you share. Florence's confidence that Marine le pen is a total. Don't hope where the presidency is concerned. I am very very hesitant. These days to make the predictions of any electoral process. I mean like the majority of those of us who inhabit the punditocracy these days. We have a pretty appalling record over the last few years so i am very hesitant however i think it's important to make one point local elections. I think in france as in this country are not good predictors of what happened in national elections for two reasons. First of all. The turnout tends to be much much lower in local elections than in national elections and secondly people vote for different reasons. They might be happy enough to see marina pens party gain regional power just as in this country at one time the british national party which was the sort of post fascist quasi fascist british political party had a number of local council seats. They have now vanished from the scene. The united kingdom independence party the niger farraj pro. Brexit party did very well at the local level. For time they have now disappeared from the scene although of course they did get what they wanted. And so for all those kinds of reasons. I think predicting is very hard to do. But like florence. I think it is still hugely unlikely. Vanishingly unlikely the marine le pen will ever be president fronts. Well let's move along. Since the monocle daily returned last week we have been delighted. Overjoyed to have panelists. Righty in the studio again. No more pontificating from home for them however reports circulating in the uk suggests that some consideration is being given to making working from home. A right rob van an option but is such legislation either necessary or desirable. There are obviously some jobs in which working from home isn't an option and others in which people have been doing it for years anyway like for example. Al jobs florence. Do you have a preference working from home or working in an office. Definitely working in an office. I mean maybe. I would have spoken differently after the first lock down after the extraordinary period that it was but then after months having to deal with having to organize work having to make decisions editorial decision. What all kinds of decision human resources decision on my own from home. I definitely think it's a. It's a very bad idea and i was. I mean i came back to the f. With a small group of people. I mean people are free to come back on not and you see more and more of them coming back. We stopped being three four seventeen and it would be more because i mean you have. This interaction is dynamic discussing. Id's being a bit more creative with what you want to do. As i say suggestion you know you start a simple conversation. And whatever and then you really. Oh yes that could be a story. That's how it worked. So i mean working from home. Yes if you have to write a story or to do a a word like very specific of course you can do it from home but being in a in a newsroom. I mean is is something that that is completely lost in lockdown. So the robbins. There's something to be said for the default hybrid model. I think in a lot of journalism but sometimes we are in newsrooms and sometimes we are interacting with colleagues and sometimes we are either working from home by ourselves or if out on the road working in a hotel room by ourselves occasionally. It has even been suggested in some sort of bar working by ourselves. I i have heard and i have. I have heard of such things. Didn't didn't believe it myself but is that hybrid model. Potentially the future. It depends so much on what the nature of the work is doesn't it. I mean i think any kind of work which involves discussing ideas agreeing on ideas charting away forward which is Acceptable to a group of people does require those people to get together and doing it. Online isn't an adequate substitute for being in the same room. Thrashing it out having said which. I am a lifelong heater of meetings so i rather relish the opportunity not to be in meetings even if it means. I'm locked out of some quite important decision. Making i mean i. I have worked in newsrooms and at the bbc for many years and that of course required going into an office also now being freelance journalist and broadcaster many years which means working from home. What i miss is the camaraderie of being with colleagues kicking ideas. Around joking with each other thrashing out ideas. What i love is just being able to sit down in front of my computer and get on with it so horses for courses if the work is doable on your own and if you're working on your get on with it if not no and basically what. You're interested in is abolishing meetings. They're being of course nothing worse than people sitting around the table talking about things. I can possibly say that so rob and florence. Thank you both. do stay with us. We will shortly be looking. At the news of zambia's founding father president kenneth kaunda this is breaking in the last couple of hours who has died at the age of ninety seven we will have monocle. Twenty four pitcher right. After this zambia and africa are contemplating the end of an era. They're pretty much all gone now. The generation of african leaders who inspired and oversaw africa's late twentieth century transition from a patchwork of colonial claims to a continent of sovereign nations kenneth. David calendar was born on april. Twenty eighth nineteen twenty four inch in solly a town in what was then. The british protectorate of northern rhodesia and indeed would remain so for another forty years until calendar helped lead to independence and became the first president of the new republic of zambia. Zambia does look how the capacity to strike back at the enemy because the enemy has been prepared for the last sixty seventy years for those three to four years religion. What's more central behind them. Coming from western countries that is the correct analysis of the problem. And unless you understand it this way you misled by enemy. Enemy's bent on radio calendar. A schoolteacher by profession became active in northern rhodesia's independence struggle during the nineteen fifties to the extent of being repeatedly imprisoned upon emergence from a ten month stretch in nine hundred sixty. He became leader of the new united national independence. Party you unit. In a general election in one thousand nine hundred sixty two held as part of northern rhodesia's decolonisation process unit. Did well in. The election of nineteen sixty four unit did even better when northern rhodesia was granted independence nine months later kenneth. Calendar was president. Of the new nation of zambia. He would remain so for the next twenty seven years. The iphone see. Why was this referendum necessary to remove the clause that makes it a compulsive us to go to the people each time. We wanted to make any changes. Spend a i've been wanted especially in clinically forms are concerned so that We want we went to come. That power from the constitution from calendar having been more or less democratically-elected proved nobody's idea of democrat once in office in nineteen seventy-two zambia. Officially became a one party state. All by unit were banned in subsequent presidential elections. One name appeared on the ballot vision of the diphu. This nation zambia will soon be one party but democracy. This is why the deliberations of this national council us so important calendar justify this as revolutionaries often do after taking power by insisting that the progress of the 'cause mattered more than allowing anybody else. Say in where it was headed. It all got a bit personality. Cultish calendar appeared on postage stamps and banknotes and published several unreasonably tedious tracts expounding upon his philosophical ponderings four role that zombie under calendar. So some improvements at least initially especially in education and infrastructure but he was and this again is scarcely unusual among revolutionaries who find themselves obliged to attend to the tiresome. Minutia of actual government always more attracted to struggles grander than those involved in budget. Allocations as zambia and its people grew poorer and more dependent on foreign aid. Calendar seemed much more interested in allowing zombie to be used as a base for those waging the independent struggles of its neighbors and calendar proved no exception to the rule. That the person who else stays there. Welcome is the last to notice. By nineteen ninety s zambia's economy was tanking desperately after trying to buy time by offering a referendum on legalizing parties other than unit calendar grudgingly cold general elections in nineteen ninety-one. One of calendars campaign. Policies was definitely an indication that he might have been in office that little bit too long. He wanted to turn a quarter of the country's land over to maharishi mahesh yogi the absurd crack griffin who had once held the beatles in and now proposed to build a transcendental eden in zambia in the presidential poll calendar was trounced winning less than twenty five percent of the vote calendar did not go quietly for good and for ill he and his eponymous charitable foundation did commendable work tackling hiv aids one of the countless african victims of which was one of his sons masuzo. His awareness raising included releasing an album of his own songs on the subject. However much to the vexation of subsequently design zambia calendar was never content in retirement. He tried to run for president again in nineteen ninety-six but was blocked by tweaks to the constitution. He spent some time under house arrest. Accused of being in on a coup. He was stripped of his citizenship. But one at back in court said not shave. Until i was told i was imprisoned. Good but i've told why visit for five months this group of african liberators. The coterie of naira can yeta and crewman michelle tour et. al were. It is fair to say a mixed bag. Someone power with greater scruple and exercise with greater wisdom than others kenneth calendar was no nelson mandela. But certainly no robert mugabe twenty foes obituary for calendar founding president zambia. Who died earlier today at the age of ninety seven robin you were living. Not far from zambia. During some of that early period of his rule. What kind of figure did he strike upon. Certainly i upon ascending to power. Was your vitry made clear. One of the giants of the anti-colonial struggle at entities. A truth i think perhaps more clear now than it was in the nineteen sixties that revenue revolutionary leaders rally make good democrats. Kaunda was probably a less bad democrat than some of his contemporaries. He certainly wasn't a perfect democrat but he was almost revered. I would say in the nineteen sixties and seventies as one of the great heroes of the anti colonial struggle. As you pointed out in the obituary he was jailed. More than once And he suffered for his beliefs and as a leader of the struggle. So yeah i mean i. I was living in uganda for time. In the nineteen sixties. I then went onto study african politics when i went to university in this country And he was of that generation one of the giants florence. It doesn't seem kind of strange. When somebody who occupied such a position dies at an advanced age there is this sense. Isn't there a disconnection from history occurring. Yeah what is remarkable. Also is that he dies like let's say peacefully He lost power an election so all those factors are something that is not that common in many african country with the stories pretty much agitated and violence. So and yeah it's even surprising was terror because as you say. This story has passed on Even if he stays like figure in new yet played his role and he was not relevant anymore in politics florence. Peterman and robin listrik. Thank you both for joining studies. All for this edition of the monocle daily. Thanks also to dave clark in washington dc. Today's show was produced by carlotta rabelo and research by sophie. Monaghan coons engineer steph chungu. I'm andrew millet here in london. The daily returns at the same time. Tomorrow i'll be your host for that as well. Thanks very much for listening dr.